========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 14:37:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: Press Preview - July 2 at 5 PM till 8 PM - Tribes Gallery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit chris you in town by then call me ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 14:28:58 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Fw: press release MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Boog City presents d.a. levy lives: celebrating the renegade press The Wandering Hermit Review (Buffalo, NY) Tues. July 11, 6 p.m., free ACA Galleries 529 W.20th St., 5th Flr. NYC Event will be hosted by Wandering Hermit Review editor Steve Potter Featuring readings from Joel Allegretti Steve Dalachinsky Heller Levinson Dante Micheaux Rodrigo Toscano With music from Paul Rubenstein There will be wine, cheese, and fruit, too. Curated and with an introduction by Boog City editor David Kirschenbaum ‹‹‹‹‹- *About The Wandering Hermit Review* The Wandering Hermit Review is a digest size, perfect-bound journal of 150-200 pages that comes out annually. In the spirit of d. a. levy, the Hermit is a 100% d.i.y. mag printed via home computer/laser printer and bound by hand in the editor's kitchen using plywood and spring clamps. We're happy to report that people often don't believe that when they first see the mag which looks pretty slick, if we do say so ourselves. The Wandering Hermit features an eclectic blend of writing and visual art ranging from the wildly experimental to the fairly traditional. We love finding common elements in the work of writers coming from radically different aesthetic backgrounds and enjoy placing them side-by-side. *Performer Bios* **Joel Allegretti¹s first collection of poems, The Plague Psalms, was published in 2000 by The Poet's Press and is now in its third edition. His work has appeared in Rattapallax, Anglican Theological Review, and Manhattan Literary Review, among other publications. He is a Pushcart Prize nominee; was a quarter-finalist in the 2002 Lyric Recovery Festival; and one of three writers selected to participate in the Visible Word, a collaboration of literary and visual artists sponsored by the DeBaun Center of the Performing Arts, Stevens Institute of Technology. **Steve Dalachinsky¹s poems have appeared in journals and anthologies such as Big Bridge, Milk, Evergreen Review, Alpha Beat Soup, Xtant, NY Arts Magazine, The Lost and Found Times, and the Outlaw Bible of American Poetry. He has written liner notes for the CDs from Anthony Braxton, James "Blood" Ulmer, Matthew Shipp, and Roscoe Mitchell, among many others. His 1999 CD, Incomplete Direction, a collection of his poetry read in collaboration with various musicians, including William Parker, Daniel Carter, Sabir Mateen, Susie Ibarra, Thurston Moore (SonicYouth), and Vernon Reid (Living Colour), has garnered much praise. Recent publications include St. Lucie (King of Mice Press, 2005), Are We Not MEN and Fake Book (two books of collage from Page Press, 2005), Dream Book (Avantcular Press, 2005), and The Final Nite (complete notes from a Charles Gayle Notebook (Ugly Duckling Presse, 2005). **Heller Levinson¹s poems have appeared in numerous magazines including Sulfur, Hunger, Fire (UK), Edgz, Small Pond, Nexus, Unarmed, Chiron Review, Colorado Review, Bakunin, Monkey Puzzle, and The Great American Poetry Show. ToxiCity A (Howling Dog Press) is his new collection of poems. **Dante Micheaux is an emerging poet whose work has appeared in Warpland: A Journal of Black Literature and Ideas and Cave Canem VIII. He has been a guest poet of the Cathedral Church of Saint John the Divine, the Publishing Triangle, and City X-Posed. In 2002, he received a prize in poetry from the Vera List Center for Art & Politics. He is a member of the John Donne/George Herbert Poetry Society. He resides in New York City. **Paul Rubenstein is a composer and multi-instrumental musician who invents and builds most of the instruments he plays. Rubenstein has composed scores for numerous films, including The Show, directed by Cruz Angeles; and Montessori Swordfight, Sunday Afternoon, and Moose Mountain. He has performed at venues such as Tonic, the Knitting Factory, The Queens Art Museum, The American Museum of Natural History, The Seattle Art Museum, The Seattle Asian Art Museum, The Seattle Folklife Festival, The Arts Edge Festival, and On the Boards. He has collaborated with many spoken word artists, including Rick Moody (author of the Ice Storm and Garden State), Jeet Thayil (English), Sarita Choudhury (book-on-tape version of Chitra Divakaruni's Mistress of Spices), Shebana Coelho (Blyton in Bombay BBC4 radio show), Anne Fiero, Steve Potter, Ace Moore, and Clarice Keegan. He has also worked with dancers, including Melody Liu, Hassan Christopher, Mew Chang-Tsing, and Yoko Murao. **Rodrigo Toscano is the author of To Leveling Swerve (Krupskaya Books, 2004), Platform (Atelos, 2003), The Disparities (Green Integer, 2002), and Partisans (O Books, 1999). His work has recently appeared in Best American Poetry (Scribners, 2004) and War and Peace (O Books, 2004). His poetry has been translated into French, German, Spanish, Portuguese, and Italian. Toscano is originally from San Diego and San Francisco California. He lives in New York City. ‹‹‹‹‹‹ Directions: C/E to 23rd St., 1/9 to 18th St. Venue is bet. 10th and 11th avenues http://www.wanderinghermit.com/ http://www.ubertar.com/ Next event, Tues. July 25, Narrow House Recordings (Gwyn Oak, Maryland) ‹ David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 06:31:06 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Larissa Shmailo Subject: PUBLISH & PERFORM OR PERISH! POETRY CLASS WITH 3 PERFORMANCES AT MAJOR VENUES MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 POETRY CLASS WITH THREE GUARANTEED=20 PERFORMANCES AT MAJOR VENUES=20 PUBLISH & PERFORM OR PERISH! =20 CLASSES START SEPTEMBER 23 - Nov 13=20 CONDUCTED BY LARISSA SHMAILO AND CHOCOLATE WATERS =20 RAISE YOUR SKILLS, RAISE YOUR POETRY PROFILE, RAISE THE ROOF! THIS NEW=20 COURSE WILL TEACH YOU HOW TO TRANSFORM YOURSELF FROM A POETIC WALLFLOWER TO= A WALL=20 OF FIRE. THERE WILL BE FIVE SESSIONS: SATURDAY CLASSES FROM 2-4 P.M. PLUS THREE=20 CLASS PERFORMANCES AT THE BACK FENCE, THE CORNELIA STREET CAF=C9, AND THE= TRIBES=20 GALLERY. IN CLASS, WE WILL EDIT AND CAREFULLY CRITIQUE WORK AND WE WILL=20 SUGGEST MARKETING, PUBLISHING, AND PERFORMING OPPORTUNITIES AND ALSO TEACH=20= YOU HOW=20 TO PLEASE A CROWD. =20 LOCATION: CHURCH OF ST. PAUL & ST ANDREW=20 263 West 86th ST. at West End Avenue (1 TRAIN to 86TH ST.) REGISTRATION IS NOW OPEN. =20 This is an unprecedented performance opportunity, never before offered in=20 any workshop. Openings are limited to eight and filling up fast. To apply f= or a=20 spot, send five of your best poems and a $75 (non-refundable) registration=20 fee. The complete cost of the workshop is $295, the balance to be paid by t= he=20 first session. Your work may be submitted through CHOCOLATEWATERS.COM Conta= ct=20 Me link. The registration fee may be sent by Pay Pal to choc49@yahoo.com or= =20 by postal mail to Eggplant Productions, 415 W. 44 St. Suite #7, New York,= =20 NY 10036-4440. Checks or money orders should be made out to Chocolate Water= s=20 or Larissa Shmailo. =20 About us: See larissashmailo.blogspot.com and chocolatewaters.com For more information and/or questions you may call Larissa @ 212.712.9865=20 (before 9 p.m. please).=20 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 12:45:42 +0200 Reply-To: argotist@fsmail.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Side Subject: Scott Thurston poem at The Argotist Online Comments: To: British Poetics Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Excerpts from Separate Voices http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Thurston%20poems.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 10:43:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Lawmaker Wants UW Lecturer Fired Over 9/11 Views Comments: To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed Lawmaker Wants UW Lecturer Fired Over 9/11 Views Barrett Expressed Views On Milwaukee Radio Show http://www.channel3000.com/news/9457154/detail.html POSTED: 7:04 pm CDT June 30, 2006 UPDATED: 10:01 pm CDT June 30, 2006 MADISON, Wis. -- University of Wisconsin-Madison officials are =20 reviewing the background of a UW-Madison lecturer after a state =20 lawmaker demanded he be fired for his beliefs about Sept. 11, 2001. Kevin Barrett has a doctorate and lectures on Islamic culture and =20 religion. He is also co-founder of a group that believes some in our =20 government arranged the Sept. 11 attacks. In some circles, especially academic ones, the debate over what =20 really happened on Sept. 11 continues. The issue now is whether such =20 radical beliefs belong in the college classroom. Most Americans believe that on Sept. 11 the United States was =20 attacked by 19 Arab hijackers commanded by al-Qaida and Osama bin =20 Laden. But some conspiracy-based groups, like Barrett's Muslim-Jewish-=20= Christian Alliance For 9/11 Truth, think that's "a lie." Barrett believes evidence compiled by others show that Dick Cheney =20 and others inside the U.S. government arranged the 9/11 attacks -- =20 and he said so Wednesday on a Milwaukee radio show. "The alternative theory is that they must have at least had some =20 inside help, and more likely that the whole thing was an inside job =20 from start to finish," Barrett said. "By far the strongest hypothesis =20= at this point is that 9/11 was an inside job designed as a war-=20 trigger cover operation =85 designed to launch a series of wars -- not =20= just one war but a long series of wars." Barrett wears his activism on his sleeve -- wearing a shirt with his =20 Web site's address on the back. But one state lawmaker said that such beliefs have no place in a =20 state-sponsored classroom, and he wants Barrett to be fired. "This is preposterous, and there are better people who could teach in =20= the classroom," said Rep. Steve Nass, a Republican from Whitewater. The UW-Madison provost said he is reviewing Barrett's background to =20 double-check his credentials. The UW Board of Regents said that is appropriate but said outrageous =20 viewpoints are part of academic freedom. "I think outrageous ideas are best given the light of day. And given =20 the light of day, the university system will expose them for what =20 they are," said Dave Walsh, president of the Board of Regents. But Nass thinks that Barrett's views go too far for the classroom. "By the university standards, Adolf Hitler could speak in a classroom =20= -- and that would be free speech and academic freedom," he said. Walsh said he thinks Barrett's ideas are "beyond preposterous," too, =20 but said they still shouldn't be excluded from a college classroom. Barrett said he is fine with the provost's review and said that =20 during his contemporary Islam course on culture and religion he =20 presents all viewpoints in a fair and balanced way. As for being called a "wacko" by some, Barrett said a recent Zogby =20 poll found that 42 percent believe the 9/11 commission report =20 concealed evidence and is covering up the truth.= ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 11:45:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stuart Ross Subject: Re: Comics & poetry In-Reply-To: <750c78460606301017p6d2a01d0ve6cac9cef8c4d9cf@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I don't think anyone has yet mentioned Kenneth Koch's strange book from Soft Skull called The Art of the Possible, a collection of poetry comic strips in his, um, inimitable style. There were also collaborative poetry comics by Joe Brainard and Ron Padgett back in the 60s and 70s. Stu -- _________________________________________________________________ www.hunkamooga.com - The Online Home of Stuart Ross ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 12:01:00 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mike Luster Subject: Re: Comics & poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've come late to this thread so I don't know if anyone has mentioned Ed Dorn's Recollections of the Gran Apacheria. Mike Luster ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 12:56:33 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Burt Kimmelman Subject: Kimmelman and Stephens Reading in London, July 8th Comments: cc: kimmelma@NJIT.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Burt Kimmelman and Michael Stephens will be reading in London on July = 8th at 1 PM, at the Pentameters Theatre located at: Three Horseshoes, Heath Street, Hampstead, London NW3. Map, tube stop, contact info and address here: http://www.tiscali.co.uk/entertainment/whatson/theatre/london/pentameters= _theatre/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 16:11:09 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: Comics & poetry In-Reply-To: <325.6ec7374.31d7f63c@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit it isn't partic po-related, but if we're talkin comics on the web, you gotta check out http://www.zark.com . this started in 95 or 96, more or less the beginning of web time. i'd suggest you start at http://www.zark.com/pages/aztitle.html , ie, from the start. this is 'argon zark' by charley parker. i don't think he's done anything with this for several years, maybe even since about 2000, but it's still worth checking out. the news section at http://www.zark.com/front/news.html was last updated in 2005. i see there mention of a couple of inarestin books: "a history of web comics" and "the artistic history of web comics". ja ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 18:33:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: Comics & poetry In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit here's another web-based comic proj: http://artcontext.org/act/05/panel ; this is 'panel junction' by andy deck (ny). in one sense, this is actually a software art project. deck wrote software to support a community/collaborative creation of panels of comics. i see 12 finished panels. ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 23:19:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: transactional games -- in poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 23:30:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: ALSO on Conchology bulawg MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com/ -- TRANSACTIONAL GAMES -- AND POETRY -- REGARDING THOMAS GRAY'S "ODE ON A DISTANT PROSPECT OF ETON COLLEGE" READING THE CLIMATIC ANTIPODES: -- Links to Reading in the Caribbean -- Pics of Reading in Buffalo -- THE HYMN OF LOVINGKINDNESS -- LITERARY NARCISSISM AND THE MANUFACTURE OF SCANDAL http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 22:26:17 -0700 Reply-To: ishaq1824@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: French Rioters Release Hip-Hop CD MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT French Rioters Release Hip-Hop CD C7 H16 releases "G la rage et je la garde" ["I have rage and i'm keeping it. I'm pissed and i'm staying pissed..."] A quick translation of the intro of the CD (also the intro on the website): In the beginning of the winter, the suburbs have been set on fire and that's a good thing. In the middle of the urbanisation of capitalism, there is nothing more to hope for, nothing more to win...a lot of us have played with a bit of fire. (a lot have paid some joy of fire) Our hatred is not negotiable, from generation to generation, it's the same shit. Confronting the State and its representatives, those who walk up straight while we are slaves. That's the meaning of the rioters, those who have rage, those who don't want the life they're condemned to. Nothing new, and nothing is finished, it has only begun. The fire spread everywhere. And it will spread again, from itself, because this revolt is more profound than any word of order. ------------------- Available for 5€ from: Pas même t'y crois production 17/19 rues des Bauves 95200 Sarcelles FRANCE Or you can download it for free at: http://c7h16.internetdown.org/ http://www.infoshop.org/inews/article.php?story=20060629101709878 -- Stay Strong -"I testified/My mama cried/Black people died/When the other man lied" -- chuck d "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as) \ "We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit to a process of humiliation." --patrick o'neil \ "...we have the responsibility to make no deal with the oppressor" --harry belafonte \ "...in time, we will look back to this age with incredulity and amazement -- and victories like Hamas in Israel will be the *best* of our memories." -- mumia abu jamal -- "what state? what union?" "...these people generate wars in Asia and Africa,...These are the people who, in the last century, caused several devastating wars. In one world war alone, they killed over 60 million people.... In the near future, Allah willing, we will put you to trial in courts established by the peoples...."-- mahmoud ahmadinejad \ http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a006-braithwaite-01.php \ http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7255.php \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date \ http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/en_fins__clichy-sous_bois_amixquiet-_lordpatch_the_giver__.mp3 \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ \ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 05:48:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Recent Nomadics blog posts Comments: To: BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Comments: cc: Lucifer Poetics Group , Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Recent posts on Nomadics blog: The Abbey Taxi Project Poem de la Week Levi, Cohen, Joris, Djebar Hacker Resistance Two via PEN Happy Birthday, Frank O'Hara! Ingeborg Bachmann Prize awarded to Kathrin Passig go to: http://pjoris.blogspot.com apologies for any crosspostings have a great summer, Pierre =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism,since it is the merger of state and corporate power." =97 Benito Mussolini =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D Pierre Joris 244 Elm Street Albany NY 12202 h: 518 426 0433 c: 518 225 7123 o: 518 442 40 85 Euro cell: 011 33 6 79 368 446 email: joris@albany.edu http://pierrejoris.com Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 07:53:00 -0700 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Subject: Re: Comics and poetry In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit One of my published collections, Estrella's Prophecies III published by luna bisonte prods, was collaborated on with the comics illustrator Lance King. 20 some poems fully illustrated. SPD carries it. Missed original post, what is being looked for? Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 11:59:22 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Wilcox Subject: Poets in the Park, Albany, NY - July 8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed "Poets in the Park", has been celebrating poetry in July at the Robert Burns statue in Washington Park, Albany, NY since 1989. The series, formerly run by the late Tom Nattell and now hosted by Dan Wilcox, will continue with readings on Saturdays, July 8 through July 29; the readings start at 7:00 PM and are free & open to the public. The Robert Burns statue is near where Henry Johnson Blvd. passes through Washington Park and crosses Hudson Ave. The first reading in the series, on July 8, will feature Schenectady poet Michele D., and poet & activist Victorio Reyes. Michele D. works for the Association for the Blind in Albany and is the mother of two sons. Victorio Reyes is the director of the Social Justice Center in Albany, and a member of the Hip-Hop Rock Band Broadcast Live. The schedule of readings is: July 15: Alifair Skebe and Thom Francis July 22: Bob Sharkey and Virginia Osborn with EYBE (and poems by prisoners) July 29: Bernadette Mayer and Carol Graser Rain dates for each event are the following Sunday, same time, same place. Please bring your own chairs or blankets to sit on. Sponsored by the Poetry Motel Foundation. For more information contact Dan Wilcox at dwlcx@earthlink.net; or call 518-482-0262. ## ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 12:13:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Schlesinger Kyle Subject: NEWS FROM CUNEIFORM In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable CUNEIFORM@5 =20 In celebration of our 5th anniversary, Cuneiform Press is pleased to announce that our homepage has been updated and redesigned by Geoffrey Gatz= a at Blazevox.=20 =20 We have a number of new books for your summer reading pleasure: =20 =80 Johanna Drucker's From Now (chapbook) =80 Gil Ott's The Amputated Toe (fine press edition) =80 Gregg Biglieri's Sleepy with Democracy (trade edition) =80 Kyle Schlesinger's Moonlighting (artist=B9s book) =20 We also have a number of new broadsides, including =B3A Poet in Buffalo: Robert Creeley's 80th Birthday,=B2 and a number of posters designed for experimental film and music programs. Also new: =80 We now accept credit cards =80 Our links page has been updated and expanded =80 Our new DIY page offers a number of resources for aspiring publishers =80 As always, standing orders subscriptions are available at any time, and w= e offer a 40% discount to the trade =80 We now have a blog where you will be able to watch our next publications evolve from manuscripts to books in our printshop =20 We still have a few copies of the following: =20 =80 Robert Creeley=B9s Oh, Do You Remember... (broadside) =80 Craig Dworkin=B9s Dure (trade edition) and Andy Warhol=B9s Lost Portraits (broadside) =80 Alan Loney=B9s Meditatio : the printer printed : manifesto (trade edition) =20 Check it out at: http://www.cuneiformpress.com/ Thanks for you support of Cuneiform Press and our authors! =20 Kyle =20 =20 * Please note that many of our titles are produced by hand and go out of print very quickly. Order early! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 09:29:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adam Fieled Subject: Article on DuPlessis in CORDITE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello all....I've published an article on post-avant in general & specifically on the work of Rachel Blau DuPlessis in the new CORDITE (http://www.cordite.org.au). If you're interested in po-theory, or Rachel's work, or just want to see a great issue of a great journal, please have a look!!! Adam Fieled afieled@yahoo.com --------------------------------- Sneak preview the all-new Yahoo.com. It's not radically different. Just radically better. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 15:22:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: stoperate Comments: To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" , NEOLOGISMS@YAHOOGROUPS.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed http://www.googlemark.org/?id=CHECK&q=stoperate ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 04:10:15 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: sorry forgot 2 events and a 4th to come soon- 3 events MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Boog City presents d.a. levy lives: celebrating the renegade press The Wandering Hermit Review (Buffalo, NY) Tues. July 11, 6 p.m., free ACA Galleries 529 W.20th St., 5th Flr. NYC Event will be hosted by Wandering Hermit Review editor Steve Potter Featuring readings from Joel Allegretti Steve Dalachinsky Heller Levinson Dante Micheaux Rodrigo Toscano With music from Paul Rubenstein There will be wine, cheese, and fruit, too. Curated and with an introduction by Boog City editor David Kirschenbaum _________________________________________________________________________ ____ TOMPKINS SQUARE GALLERY PO-COLLAGE in East Village Curated by Valery Oisteanu 1.Charles Henri Ford 2. John Evans 3. Charles Plymmel 4. Ronnie Burk 5.Valery Oisteanu 6. Jeffrey Cyphers Wright 7. Ilka Scobie & Luigi Cazzaniga 8. Angelo Jannuzzi 9. Steve Dalachinsky & Yuko Otomo 10. Richard West & Lissa Moira 11. Rakien Nomura 12. Allen Sheinman 14. Esther Mizrahhii 15. Ruth Oisteanu 16. Tom Walker Opening July 14th 5-7.30 PM(?) POEMONTAGE Performance 26 July 6-8PM 1.Valery Oisteanu 2. Jeffrey Wright 3.Steve Dalachinsky & Yuko Otomo 4. Richard West & Lissa Moira 5. Star Black 6. Lois Kagan Mingus 7. Tom Walker PO-COLLAGE New York Publication: catalogue chapbook (collage+illustrations+poetry)(?): TOMPKINS SQUARE BRANCH LIBRARY 331 East 10th Street (near Ave. B) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 16:41:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Subject: Langston Hughes/W.Dixon/Jimmy Reed, etc--a question In-Reply-To: <20060630.041713.-80503.33.skyplums@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v750) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey, I got in a really good discussion the other day about Langston Hughes' blues poems (and yes I know that he recorded quite a few of them) and their relationship to the blues lyrics of, for instance, the folks above, or John Lee Hooker, Big Mama Thornton, Ma Rainey, etc--- And if anybody else here would maybe be interested in talking about that relationship here-- Does it matter that Hughes worked primarily in a different field (in the artistic specialization sense) than these other folks? Is it somewhat analogous to the difference between, say, million selling hip hop artists today vs. a slam poet aesthetic which utilizes many devices of rap/hip hop? Or, for that matter, even the difference between say Bob Dylan and Allen Ginsberg's songs? There's alot of room for discussion (and, sure, bring on the "blues bashers" though I'm definitely trying to avoid the tired argument "it doesn't stand up on the page" and will try not to engage it here if it comes up)-- Also, if anybody knows of any good essays on the subject---- specifically about Hughes and some of the other recorded bluesmen of the 20th C---that'd be a nice supplement, but I really am not a big fan of posts that just send LINKS without any commentary as to why I'm supposed to check out the link...... a discussion might be nice (but be careful what you ask for, Chris---) C ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 20:00:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: Langston Hughes/W.Dixon/Jimmy Reed, etc--a question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain well, the one obvious intersection is that moment at Newport when the Muddy Waters band plays the song that Hughes wrote while listening - I think it's on the Muddy at Newport album, but don't have it in front of me - And don't be so quick to dismiss that "it doesn't hold up on the page" objection -- Most popular song lyrics don't hold up in the absence of music, and were never intended to -- there are, of course, numerous exceptions -- so let's not rush to make that a general rule any more than we rush to rule out the page/stage distinctions -- there are blues lyrics that hold up quite well: I'm going down to the river, gonna take my rocking chair; If the blues overtake me, I'll rock on out of there. and there are blues lyrics that don't hold up so well-- which is one reason I just love those loving transcriptions that reverently preserve every "uh huh" etc. Buddy Guy singng "Heard people tell, the mighty dollar done fell" - is poetry to me -- John Lee Hooker's BOOGIE CHILDREN is a great record, but it will never make compelling reading -- or reciting -- the essential difference between those slam poets you mention (yes I know them . . . I had to rearrange thir faces . . . ) and "hip hop artists, is the producer -- there was never a blues poetry "scene" coincident in the same way with blues as music in performance -- just several poets (Highes, Brown, Johnson) who included the form in their repertoire - On Sun, 02 Jul 2006 16:41:34 +0000, Chris Stroffolino wrote: > Hey, I got in a really good discussion the other day about Langston > Hughes' blues poems > (and yes I know that he recorded quite a few of them) and their > relationship to the blues lyrics > of, for instance, the folks above, or John Lee Hooker, Big Mama > Thornton, Ma Rainey, etc--- > > And if anybody else here would maybe be interested in talking about > that relationship here-- > Does it matter that Hughes worked primarily in a different field (in > the artistic specialization sense) than these other folks? > Is it somewhat analogous to the difference between, say, million > selling hip hop artists today vs. a slam poet aesthetic which > utilizes many devices of rap/hip hop? > Or, for that matter, even the difference between say Bob Dylan and > Allen Ginsberg's songs? > > There's alot of room for discussion (and, sure, bring on the "blues > bashers" though I'm definitely trying to > avoid the tired argument "it doesn't stand up on the page" and will > try not to engage it here if it comes up)-- > Also, if anybody knows of any good essays on the subject---- > specifically about Hughes and some of the other recorded bluesmen of > the 20th C---that'd be a nice supplement, but I really am not a big > fan of posts that just send LINKS > without any commentary as to why I'm supposed to check out the > link...... > a discussion might be nice (but be careful what you ask for, Chris---) > > C > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 20:00:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nada Gordon Subject: Re: Comics & poetry Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Gary Sullivan has been creating poetry-related comics for at least a decade. You can order his second full-length comic book, Elsewhere #2, at his blog: http://garysullivan.blogspot.com/ And it shall rock thy world. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 17:31:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Subject: Re: Langston Hughes/W.Dixon/Jimmy Reed, etc--a question In-Reply-To: <200607030000.UAA04356@webmail3.cac.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v750) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aldon----thanks for getting the ball rolling on this---One follow up question for you would be, in reference to the "doesn't hold up to the page" objection, would be this: Given the fact that Hughes did publish them in his books, would you say that Hughes' stand up on the page more so than the others? Do you agree with the perception that Hughes was trying to confer a specifically "literary" legitimacy onto this form on par with, say, the more white euro form of the sonnet? Do you think he was trying to de-alienate "literature" and "music" from each other as specialized fields? As later, say, Baraka might be said to (or we could get into Gil Scott Heron again I suppose)--- Your point about their being no blues literary scene is a good one I think---and to me points to what is so, I'll say, pioneering about what Hughes (and Johnson---I assume you mean james weldon not robert) did----I'm trying to figure how this relates to this broader (empirical, but probably controversial) observation in today's society: In popular music, to a large extent, even the most white- power culturally segratated whites, have to acknowledge the crucial importance and influence and relevance of black musicians (though perhaps less so now than 25-30 years ago)----Yet, in the field of literature and poetry (if understood as cut off from music, and specifically that which 'holds up well on the page'), there are still quite a few 'well-intentioned' liberal whites groping desperately and/ or cluelessly to change their standards, or 'make exceptions,' when it comes to considering the history of diaspora poetry (warning: shorthand term) (Hughes being on the level of Pound or Williams, for instance, is not heard as much as say Bird on the level of Stravinski or 'the stones stole it from Chuck Berry').... and what to make of that, and where to go next.... (okay, that's my two posts for today....) Chris On Jul 2, 2006, at 5:00 PM, ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > well, the one obvious intersection is that moment at Newport when > the Muddy > Waters band plays the song that Hughes wrote while listening - I > think it's on > the Muddy at Newport album, but don't have it in front of me - > > And don't be so quick to dismiss that "it doesn't hold up on the > page" objection > -- Most popular song lyrics don't hold up in the absence of music, > and were > never intended to -- there are, of course, numerous exceptions -- > so let's not > rush to make that a general rule any more than we rush to rule out the > page/stage distinctions -- > > there are blues lyrics that hold up quite well: > > I'm going down to the river, gonna take my rocking chair; > If the blues overtake me, I'll rock on out of there. > > > and there are blues lyrics that don't hold up so well-- which is > one reason I > just love those loving transcriptions that reverently preserve > every "uh huh" > etc. > > Buddy Guy singng "Heard people tell, the mighty dollar done fell" - > is poetry to > me -- John Lee Hooker's BOOGIE CHILDREN is a great record, but it > will never > make compelling reading -- or reciting -- > > the essential difference between those slam poets you mention (yes > I know them . > . . I had to rearrange thir faces . . . ) and "hip hop artists, is > the producer > -- > > there was never a blues poetry "scene" coincident in the same way > with blues as > music in performance -- just several poets (Highes, Brown, Johnson) > who > included the form in their repertoire - > > > > On Sun, 02 Jul 2006 16:41:34 +0000, Chris Stroffolino wrote: > >> Hey, I got in a really good discussion the other day about Langston >> Hughes' blues poems >> (and yes I know that he recorded quite a few of them) and their >> relationship to the blues lyrics >> of, for instance, the folks above, or John Lee Hooker, Big Mama >> Thornton, Ma Rainey, etc--- >> >> And if anybody else here would maybe be interested in talking about >> that relationship here-- >> Does it matter that Hughes worked primarily in a different field (in >> the artistic specialization sense) than these other folks? >> Is it somewhat analogous to the difference between, say, million >> selling hip hop artists today vs. a slam poet aesthetic which >> utilizes many devices of rap/hip hop? >> Or, for that matter, even the difference between say Bob Dylan and >> Allen Ginsberg's songs? >> >> There's alot of room for discussion (and, sure, bring on the "blues >> bashers" though I'm definitely trying to >> avoid the tired argument "it doesn't stand up on the page" and will >> try not to engage it here if it comes up)-- >> Also, if anybody knows of any good essays on the subject---- >> specifically about Hughes and some of the other recorded bluesmen of >> the 20th C---that'd be a nice supplement, but I really am not a big >> fan of posts that just send LINKS >> without any commentary as to why I'm supposed to check out the >> link...... >> a discussion might be nice (but be careful what you ask for, >> Chris---) >> >> C >> >> > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > --Emily Dickinson > > Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > > Aldon L. Nielsen > Kelly Professor of American Literature > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 05:46:08 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: the fireworks also gaze into you MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings, those with cause to celebrate and those without! There's new work at www.UnlikelyStories.org : Benjamin Buchholz spends the holiday in a tent with some spam Dick Bakken on "The Great American Toilet Seat Flap" Iftekhar Sayeed speaks on the "rational" as a justification for slavery Jeff Crouch presents "Thought Sparks," a photo and text essay on moving synapses Joja poetically asks what's eating Ariel Sharon More poetry by Paul Murphy, Ron Spurga, Rumjhum Biswas, Elizabeth P. Glixman, J. A. Spahr-Summers, Christian Ward, Ray Brown, and Kristie Langone Fiction by George Sparling, Linda A. Lavid, Joe Pachinko, P. S. Ehrlich, and Ryan Undeen and A Sardine On Vacation, Episode Thirty-Nine, in which the Sardine's stalker closes in The issue is exceptionally profane this month, so blame your friends! -- Jonathan Penton http://www.unlikelystories.org/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 20:29:44 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: Langston Hughes/W.Dixon/Jimmy Reed, etc--a question In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable care to diff. the blues poems from the others problem with form in Hughes (and h.r. in general), form in blues, form = in blues poems, and form in hughes' blues poems vs. Hughes other poems what about the shout, the oral, etc. to me this is COMPLETELY DIFF from slammers' "I'm "not" a "page poet" = i.e. I don't write, I speak or perform" obviously I am working from performance poetry toward the blues, rather = than blues - poetry - performance or some other progression All best, Catherine -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] = On Behalf Of Chris Stroffolino Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 4:42 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Langston Hughes/W.Dixon/Jimmy Reed, etc--a question And if anybody else here would maybe be interested in talking about =20 that relationship here-- Does it matter that Hughes worked primarily in a different field (in =20 the artistic specialization sense) than these other folks? Is it somewhat analogous to the difference between, say, million =20 selling hip hop artists today vs. a slam poet aesthetic which =20 utilizes many devices of rap/hip hop? Or, for that matter, even the difference between say Bob Dylan and =20 Allen Ginsberg's songs? There's alot of room for discussion (and, sure, bring on the "blues =20 bashers" though I'm definitely trying to avoid the tired argument "it doesn't stand up on the page" and will =20 try not to engage it here if it comes up)-- Also, if anybody knows of any good essays on the subject----=20 specifically about Hughes and some of the other recorded bluesmen of =20 the 20th C---that'd be a nice supplement, but I really am not a big =20 fan of posts that just send LINKS without any commentary as to why I'm supposed to check out the =20 link...... a discussion might be nice (but be careful what you ask for, Chris---) C ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 00:22:18 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brenda Coultas Subject: Reading Kathy Acker MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable READING KATHY ACKER On Saturday, July 8, at 5:30 pm a unique cultural event will take place at=20 the Geoffrey Young Gallery on the second floor at 40 Railroad Street in Great Barrington.= =A0=20 Carla Harryman will give a critical appreciation of the work of the brilliant=20 writer Kathy Acker, and Ms. Harryman, Geoffrey Young, Laura Chester, and Phil Johnson wil= l=20 read from Acker's work. The event is free and open to the public.=A0 Kathy Acker was one of the most innovative, startling and influential writer= s=20 of the late 20th century.=A0 Known as a consummate postmodernist, feminist,=20 post-punk and plagiarist, she wrote over a dozen novels and novellas that inspired a=20 generation of writers and artists.=A0 She died at age 50 in 1997 of complications from=20 breast cancer.=A0 Her novels include Blood and Guts in High School, Empire of the=20 Senseless, The Adult Life of Toulouse Lautrec, and My Mother: Demonology. Carla Harryman, who teaches at Wayne State in Detroit, as well as at Bard, i= s=20 a poet, playwright,=A0 and prose writer, the author of eight books of=20 experimental writing, including Vice, Animal Instincts, and There Never Was a Rose Without a=20 Thorn.=A0 Her essay on Kathy Acker is included in the book Lust for Life, On the Writings=20 of Kathy Acker. The Kathy Acker Reading is a joint production of the Geoffrey Young Gallery=20 and The Bookstore Reading Series in Lenox; it is curated by Geoffrey Young and=20 Phil Johnson. For more information, call Geoffrey Young at 413-528-6210 or Phil Johnson at= =20 413-528-3124. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 00:43:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: Langston Hughes/W.Dixon/Jimmy Reed, etc--a question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain No, that's Fenton Johnson (not to be confused with the prose writer of our own day) -- if James Weldon Johnson wrote much blues (in books, as opposed to his song writing), I've forgotten it for the moment -- Some of Hughes's blues poems work for me, some don't -- in the same way that some blues lyrics from recordings work when read without music, though most don't -- since Hughes was (with the excpetion of songs, like the Newport episode) writing for publication and reading in most instances, he was up to something a bit different -- I doubt that Hughes would have been dealienating anything, but neither would he have seen these at all as opposed enterprises -- Chris, you know me all to well to be tempting me to comment on the ways of white liberal folk -- let's just say I know quite a few of them and actually prefer their company to the O'Reilly's of the world, all of whom seem to have appointed themseleves lately as the "TRUE" defenders of what Rev. King REALLY meant -- To go back to Gil Scott Heron as you suggest slyly, who was the professor of the only creative writing class I ever took, check out his monologue on Bluesology -- great fun -- Gil once gave us an assignment to write something in which we described all twelve members of a jury -- I wrote a blues to a Jimmy Reed tune -- fortunately Reed wasn't nearby to hit me over the head -- Suffice it to say that my lyric wouldn't survive (and indeed has not) on either the page or the stage -- for me, and I hasten to add this is a highly personal opinion, blues, like jazz, is more important to poetry as an analogue than as a form to be followed -- which is one reason I prefer the Hughes of ASK YOUR MAMA to most of his individual blues poems -- On Sun, 02 Jul 2006 17:31:01 +0000, Chris Stroffolino wrote: > Aldon----thanks for getting the ball rolling on this---One follow up > question for you would be, in reference to the "doesn't hold up to > the page" objection, would be this: > Given the fact that Hughes did publish them in his books, would you > say that Hughes' stand up on the page more so than the others? Do you > agree with the perception that Hughes was trying to confer a > specifically "literary" legitimacy onto this form on par with, say, > the more white euro form of the sonnet? Do you think he was trying to > de-alienate "literature" and "music" from each other as specialized > fields? As later, say, Baraka might be said to (or we could get into > Gil Scott Heron again I suppose)--- > > Your point about their being no blues literary scene is a good one I > think---and to me points to what is so, I'll say, pioneering about > what Hughes (and Johnson---I assume you mean james weldon not robert) > did----I'm trying to figure how this relates to this broader > (empirical, but probably controversial) observation in today's > society: In popular music, to a large extent, even the most white- > power culturally segratated whites, have to acknowledge the crucial > importance and influence and relevance of black musicians (though > perhaps less so now than 25-30 years ago)----Yet, in the field of > literature and poetry (if understood as cut off from music, and > specifically that which 'holds up well on the page'), there are still > quite a few 'well-intentioned' liberal whites groping desperately and/ > or cluelessly to change their standards, or 'make exceptions,' when > it comes to considering the history of diaspora poetry (warning: > shorthand term) (Hughes being on the level of Pound or Williams, for > instance, is not heard as much as say Bird on the level of Stravinski > or 'the stones stole it from Chuck Berry').... and what to make of > that, and where to go next.... > > (okay, that's my two posts for today....) > > Chris > > On Jul 2, 2006, at 5:00 PM, ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > > > well, the one obvious intersection is that moment at Newport when > > the Muddy > > Waters band plays the song that Hughes wrote while listening - I > > think it's on > > the Muddy at Newport album, but don't have it in front of me - > > > > And don't be so quick to dismiss that "it doesn't hold up on the > > page" objection > > -- Most popular song lyrics don't hold up in the absence of music, > > and were > > never intended to -- there are, of course, numerous exceptions -- > > so let's not > > rush to make that a general rule any more than we rush to rule out the > > page/stage distinctions -- > > > > there are blues lyrics that hold up quite well: > > > > I'm going down to the river, gonna take my rocking chair; > > If the blues overtake me, I'll rock on out of there. > > > > > > and there are blues lyrics that don't hold up so well-- which is > > one reason I > > just love those loving transcriptions that reverently preserve > > every "uh huh" > > etc. > > > > Buddy Guy singng "Heard people tell, the mighty dollar done fell" - > > is poetry to > > me -- John Lee Hooker's BOOGIE CHILDREN is a great record, but it > > will never > > make compelling reading -- or reciting -- > > > > the essential difference between those slam poets you mention (yes > > I know them . > > . . I had to rearrange thir faces . . . ) and "hip hop artists, is > > the producer > > -- > > > > there was never a blues poetry "scene" coincident in the same way > > with blues as > > music in performance -- just several poets (Highes, Brown, Johnson) > > who > > included the form in their repertoire - > > > > > > > > On Sun, 02 Jul 2006 16:41:34 +0000, Chris Stroffolino wrote: > > > >> Hey, I got in a really good discussion the other day about Langston > >> Hughes' blues poems > >> (and yes I know that he recorded quite a few of them) and their > >> relationship to the blues lyrics > >> of, for instance, the folks above, or John Lee Hooker, Big Mama > >> Thornton, Ma Rainey, etc--- > >> > >> And if anybody else here would maybe be interested in talking about > >> that relationship here-- > >> Does it matter that Hughes worked primarily in a different field (in > >> the artistic specialization sense) than these other folks? > >> Is it somewhat analogous to the difference between, say, million > >> selling hip hop artists today vs. a slam poet aesthetic which > >> utilizes many devices of rap/hip hop? > >> Or, for that matter, even the difference between say Bob Dylan and > >> Allen Ginsberg's songs? > >> > >> There's alot of room for discussion (and, sure, bring on the "blues > >> bashers" though I'm definitely trying to > >> avoid the tired argument "it doesn't stand up on the page" and will > >> try not to engage it here if it comes up)-- > >> Also, if anybody knows of any good essays on the subject---- > >> specifically about Hughes and some of the other recorded bluesmen of > >> the 20th C---that'd be a nice supplement, but I really am not a big > >> fan of posts that just send LINKS > >> without any commentary as to why I'm supposed to check out the > >> link...... > >> a discussion might be nice (but be careful what you ask for, > >> Chris---) > >> > >> C > >> > >> > > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > > > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > > --Emily Dickinson > > > > Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > > > > Aldon L. Nielsen > > Kelly Professor of American Literature > > The Pennsylvania State University > > 116 Burrowes > > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > > > (814) 865-0091 > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 09:13:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: La Danza Empapelada - Siren In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Stop by Siren (http://www.sirenlit.com/) for new work by: * Amy King * AnnMarie Eldon * Daniel Nester * David Hernandez * Glenn Ingersoll * Jenny Boully * Kathryn Rantala * Laurel Dodge * Matt Hart * Rachel Loden * Jacob Kedzierski * Ryan Laks Siren: a literary and art journal -- http://www.sirenlit.com/ --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 11:35:41 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Christophe Casamassima Prints and Sculpture at Tribes Gallery NYC July 6-25 Comments: To: lucipo listserv , sedici group , amy 2 king , Betsy Andrews , Bill Marsh , brenda iijima2 , brendan lorberer , carol quinn , cole swensen , cynthia sailers , "David A. Kirschenbaum" , deborah fusionarts , derek white , ed berrigan , "greg st. thomasino" , James Hoff , john gioia , kaplan harris Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Hi, again, Here's the press release once again for the show's opening and duration at = Tribes in NYC. Please come out on Thursday July 6 at 6 PM till 9 PM for an = opening reception with food and wine plus a reading by poets in response to= the themes invoked in The Trial: A Contemporary Response to Historical Pri= soners of Faith. Can't wait to see everyone! ------------------------ The Trial: A Contemporary Response to Historical Prisoners of Faith by artists Sergio Barrale and Christophe Casamassima Opening Reception: Thursday July 6th 6-9pm Exhibition Dates: Thursday July 6th - Tuesday July 25th Tribes Gallery presents works by artists Sergio Barrale and Christophe Casa= massima in =93The Trial: A Contemporary Response to Historical Prisoners o= f Faith.=94=20 Barrale=92s highly detailed pencil drawings on mammoth-sized canvases are c= ritical responses to Joan of Arc=92s jury in Carl Dreyer=92s 1928 film, =93= Passion de Jeanne d=92Arc=94. At once, the viewer may scrutinize the work a= nd be thrown into his/her own Trial of deceit. Sergio Barrale has received = recognition for his exhibitions at the Rosenburg Gallery : Odd Nerdrum Comm= emorative Show, School 33, and Baltimore's famous ArtScape. He has also ex= hibited at Gallery 32 in London, as a part of the London Biennial in 2004. = This is his first show in NYC. Sergio Barrale (410) 627-5758 ser= giopgb@gmail.com Casamassima's drawings are made up of layer upon layer of handwriting that = responds to the accounts of historical prisoners of faith: Testimonials evo= lve into myth, and the original (lost in the translation, so to speak, beca= use Casamassima =93writes=94 in English) becomes illegible. Christophe Casa= massima is the editor of Ambit : Journal of Poetry and Poetics, and is prop= rietor, with his wife, Sarah, of Furniture Press in Baltimore. He has shown= and sold work at Gallery 324 in Cleveland =96 this was his first show.=20= =20=20=20=20 Christophe Casamassima (410) 718-6574 furniture_press@graffiti.net The opening reception on Thursday July 6th from 6 to 9pm will feature Grego= rian chants and Medieval musics. The reception will also feature a poetry r= eading in response to the artwork.=20=20 About Tribes Gallery: The gallery at Tribes mounts a new show of contempora= ry artwork every month. Artists are chosen by the gallery for their innovat= ive use of materials or treatment of subject, for a vision that grows out o= f a sense of community, and for artistic excellence.=20 285 East Third Street (between Avenue C and Avenue D), Second Floor F train to Second Avenue or 6 train to Bleecker Street ------------------------ Christophe Casamassima Professor Emiritus, Modern Languages & Philology University of Jamaica Avenue, Queens, N.Y. --=20 ___________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.graffiti.net/ Powered By Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 12:38:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nicholas Ruiz Subject: Kritikos V.3 July 2006 In-Reply-To: <20060703163542.18D121486C@ws5-9.us4.outblaze.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kritikos V.3 July 2006 Spiderman, Superman--What's the difference?...(a.kozlovic) http://garnet.acns.fsu.edu/%7Enr03/spiderman-superman.htm Gates' Buffet, or Fail-Safe Philanthropy...(n.ruiz) http://garnet.acns.fsu.edu/%7Enr03/gates-buffet.htm Nicholas Ruiz III ABD/GTA Interdisciplinary Program in the Humanities --Florida State University-- Editor, Kritikos http://garnet.acns.fsu.edu/~nr03/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 10:42:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: nominal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Appearances aside, ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 10:57:42 -0700 Reply-To: rsillima@yahoo.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Silliman's Blog Comments: To: Brit Po , New Po , Wom Po , Lucifer Poetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ RECENT POSTS Naropa Notes Michael Koshkin’s Ronald Johnson A unique reading of The Men by Lisa Robertson Preparing students for an MFA Just what is genre? Between self and other in poetry (don’t teach the obvious) Time in Allen Ginsberg’s Howl Philosophy after Auschwitz is barbaric (on poetry and philosophy) Shutting down the comments box at least for the time being http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 14:04:58 -0400 Reply-To: "J. Michael Mollohan" Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "J. Michael Mollohan" Organization: idea.s Subject: Re: Kritikos V.3 July 2006 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A radioactive spider would break its fangs on Superman's skin. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicholas Ruiz" To: Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 12:38 PM Subject: Kritikos V.3 July 2006 > Kritikos V.3 July 2006 > > > Spiderman, Superman--What's the difference?...(a.kozlovic) > > http://garnet.acns.fsu.edu/%7Enr03/spiderman-superman.htm > > > Gates' Buffet, or Fail-Safe Philanthropy...(n.ruiz) > > http://garnet.acns.fsu.edu/%7Enr03/gates-buffet.htm > > > > > > > > Nicholas Ruiz III > ABD/GTA > Interdisciplinary Program in the Humanities --Florida State University-- > Editor, Kritikos http://garnet.acns.fsu.edu/~nr03/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 12:11:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Paul Nelson Subject: Call for Poets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit */BURNING WORD: INCITE. INFLAME. INSPIRE. IGNITING A FESTIVAL OF POETIC FIRE! /*Call for Poets *Burning Word 4 **Presented by Washington Poets Association at Greenbank Farm / Whidbey Island / April 28, 2007 2007 Headliners: *Internationally Acclaimed* Naomi Shihab Nye** *& Canada¹s First Parliamentary Poet Laureate *George Bowering** Let us know if you¹re interested *in being considered for Burning Word, a day-long poetry festival hosted by the Washington Poets Association (WPA). Now in its fourth year, the festival features over 30 poets on our main stage, a full day of workshops of various lengths, a nearly non-stop open mic, a small-press fair, bookstore and more. *Visit http:/www.washingtonpoets.org/ *for information about WPA and to get a feel for our past festivals. *Please send us *the following information to help us know about you: • Complete contact information (name, address, telephone number, email, website). • A brief bio (100 words) oriented toward your writing and performance experience. Include your website if you have one. • Two or three references who can speak to your teaching and/or presentation experience and skills. • A description of what you would read or a brief outline about the workshop you propose (maximum 10 pages). • Where and when you¹ll be reading or teaching in the near future. *Deadline for submission / Aug. 15, 2006 Send your proposal to*: *Burning Word 4 c/o Victory Lee Schouten, Chair 4435 Minor Way Greenbank, WA 98253 *or email your information to *victory@greatpath.com *The festival committee will review proposals in September and contact you by Oct. 1, 2006 regarding the 2007 lineup. *Thank you for your interest and support! _____________________________* -- Paul E. Nelson www.GlobalVoicesRadio.org www.SPLAB.org 110 2nd Street S.W. #100 Slaughter, WA 98001 253.735.6328 toll-free 888.735.6328 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 16:37:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Carbo Subject: Writers Week at Rancho la Puerta Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 http://www.rancholapuerta.com/Specialty/072206.html July 22-July 27, 2006 Join poets Denise Duhamel and Nick Carbo, fiction writers April Smith and Dan Wakefield for the fabulous Writers Week at the physically invigorating, spiritually soothing, and creativity generating, world famous spa called Rancho la Puerta in Tecate, Mexico. In the early mornings you can hike one of many mountain trails, come back and have a hydro massage before a delicious lunch, and then go to one of the writer's workshops in the afternoon. Who says poets don't need pampering? Even Bukowski had a couple of scalp massages during his lifetime. Ooooooh, aaaaaaaaaaah. My favorite activity was the labyrinth walk timed just right to catch the sunrise over Mt. Kuchumaa as you reached the center of your enlightenment. Nick Carbo http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=1667164 http://www.cherry-grove.com/carbo.html ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 04:56:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: Call for Poets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit wow burning wood who pays for transportation? where does one stay? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 04:51:57 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: nominal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit a side to all appearances ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 20:19:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: Call for Poets In-Reply-To: <20060701.045643.-88657.21.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I dunno, but Whidbey Island is very nice. Worth a visit if you like the Pacific northwest. -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Steve Dalachinsky Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 4:56 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Call for Poets wow burning wood who pays for transportation? where does one stay? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 13:22:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Fw: Re: new books MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit new from ugly duckling presse yuko otomo the hand of the poet $8 includes shipping direct from author 192 spring street ny ny 10012 steve dalachinsky the final nite ( complete notes from a charles gayle notebook - 1987-2006 ) with 8 page color collage centerfold of gayle by john d'agostino 260 pages $16 plus $4 shipping can be gotten direct from author at above address or directly from the press also new steve dalachinsky st. lucie eyes on a plate poems based on a painting by francesco zurburan small pocket sized chap $5 including shipping ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 00:13:36 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alexander Jorgensen Subject: First train completes journey across the roof of the world In-Reply-To: <20060703161354.60360.qmail@web81105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The Associated Press Published: July 3, 2006 China's first train from Beijing to Tibet made the final leg of its two-day journey on the world's highest railway, reaching Lhasa Monday after climbing to high elevations that sickened passengers and tested the specially built rail cars. Girls, some dressed in track suits and others in traditional Tibetan robes, draped white scarves, a customary gift of greeting, on arriving passengers in the newly built Lhasa railway station. Many passengers spent the day coping with the altitude, breathing piped-in oxygen from tubes as the train passed its highest point, the 5,072-meter (16,640-foot) Tanggula Pass. Three passengers threw up, while others had headaches - both symptoms of altitude sickness. Outside, Tibetan antelope and wild donkeys grazed beneath snow-capped mountains and deep-blue skies. Aside from being a feat of engineering, the US$4.2 billion (€3.4 billion) railway is part of efforts to develop China's poor, restive west and bind it more closely to the booming east. Chinese leaders hope greater prosperity will help to still calls by Tibetans and other ethnic minorities for autonomy from the communist Beijing government. The line has prompted protests by activists who say it will bring an influx of Chinese migrants to the isolated Himalayan region, threatening its ecology and diluting its unique Buddhist culture. Trains completed shorter trips on the line between Lhasa and Golmud while passengers on the 16-car train from the Chinese capital were in the midst of their journey. State media gave heavy coverage to the railway, with newspapers publishing front-page photos of passengers singing and villagers waving to the passing train. The state television midday news showed President Hu Jintao congratulating workers who built the line. Before the last leg of the trip to Lhasa, the train stopped in Golmud early Monday to switch its standard engine for three powerful locomotives required to haul the train at high altitude. Passengers included a 2 1/2-year-old boy, a 78-year-old man and a group of ethnic Tibetans newly graduated from the Beijing Police Academy who were headed home to work as police officers. One Tibetan passenger asked a Western reporter what the Dalai Lama, the exiled Tibetan spiritual leader, thought of the train. The man, who asked not to be identified by name, said that with China's Internet monitoring, it was too dangerous for him to search news Web sites for the information himself. The only signs of human habitation in the arid highlands south of Golmud were traditional herders tending yaks and small train stations that dot the rail line. After the train climbed above 4,000 meters (13,000 feet), ballpoint pens and bags of processed food burst due to the low air pressure. Laptop computers and digital music recorders failed, because moving parts in their disc drives are cushioned by tiny air bags that break at high altitude. China's government says it is spending 1.5 billion yuan (US$190 million; €150 million) on environmental protection along the Golmud-Lhasa stretch of the railway. But despite promises to minimize pollution, the sides of the line were littered with plastic bags, bottles and cardboard boxes. Large sections of the permanently frozen earth were grassless, puddled and scarred by vehicle tracks. Damaged permafrost "becomes dark, ugly, muddy water," said Daniel Wong, an engineer based in the southern Chinese city of Shenzhen who worked on the trans-Alaska oil pipeline, also laid over permafrost. "The most unfortunate thing is that such damage will spread," he said. The railway is projected to help double tourism revenues in Tibet by 2010 and cut transport costs for goods by 75 percent. Until now, goods going to and from Tibet have been trucked over mountain highways that are often blocked by landslides or snow, making trade prohibitively expensive. New York-based Students for a Free Tibet set up a Web site, rejecttherailway.com, urging the public to wear black armbands in protest of the project, which the group says "is a tool Beijing will use to overwhelm (the) Tibetan population." "We reject the railway just as we reject China's illegitimate rule in Tibet," the site said. Communist troops marched into Tibet in 1950, and Beijing says the region has been Chinese territory for centuries. But Tibet was effectively independent for much of that time. The rail line is a decades-old dream for Chinese officials. But work began in earnest only in 2001, after engineers worked out how to stabilize tracks on permafrost. The highest station is in Nagqu, a town at 4,500 meters (14,850 feet) in the plateau's rolling grasslands. --- Good art however "immoral" is wholly a thing of virtue. Good art can NOT be immoral. By good art I mean art that bears true witness, I mean the art that is most precise. -- Ezra Pound __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 00:16:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alexander Jorgensen Subject: Riding high in Tibet on new rail line In-Reply-To: <20060704071336.39594.qmail@web53902.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit By Joseph Kahn The New York Times Published: June 30, 2006 BEIJING China this weekend is opening the world's highest railway, a 1,140- kilometer line that crosses the vertiginous Tibetan Plateau and forges a steel bond with the once secluded Buddhist holy city of Lhasa. The railway, expected to be inaugurated by President Hu Jintao and other top Communist Party cadres on a deluxe opening run, is an engineering marvel that traverses unstable permafrost and reaches more than 5,000 meters, or 16,500 feet, above sea level, higher than France's Mont Blanc. Party officials have hailed the $4.1 billion project, which was decades in the making, as a milestone in its efforts to develop its vast, poor western region and bring a fresh infusion of people and prosperity to remote Tibet. But Tibetan and foreign critics say the railway benefits Han Chinese, China's dominant ethnic group, at the expense of Tibetan natives. They argue that enhanced transportation links will accelerate a trend of Han-led economic development and smother Tibet's ancient spiritual culture, while undermining the pristine natural environment of its highlands. "The overwhelming opinion among Tibetans is that the railway will consolidate Chinese control and bring in huge numbers of Han Chinese," said Tenzin Tsundue, an independent Tibetan writer and activist who lives in India. "It will mean less employment and more destruction for Tibetans, not more opportunity," he said. On Friday, three women from the United States, Canada and Britain were detained briefly after they climbed through a second-floor window at Beijing's main train station and unfurled a black-and-white banner that read, "China's Tibet Railway, Designed to Destroy." Chinese officials defend the railway as vital to stimulating Tibet's development. They project it will double tourist revenues and reduce the cost of cargo transport by up to three-fourths. "The completion of the Qinghai-Tibet railway is a significant piece of good news longed for by the people in Qinghai Province and the Tibetan Autonomous Region," Zhu Zhensheng, executive vice director of the Qingzang Railway Office of the Chinese Railway Administration, said in a news briefing this past week. "The railway provides capacity for the quick flow of people, goods and information" and will directly contribute to the development of the area, Zhu said. Mao proposed extending a railway to Tibet after the People's Liberation Army invaded the territory and brought it firmly under Chinese control in 1951, sending the Dalai Lama, Tibet's spiritual leader, into exile. The first section, extending from Beijing to Golmud in Qinghai Province, was completed in 1984. But the 710-mile section connecting Golmud to Lhasa was put on indefinite hold. It would have to cross the Tibetan Plateau, survive extreme temperatures and stay fixed in the shifting permafrost of the highlands. The plan was revived in 2001, when it was promoted as a key element of the Communist Party's "Go West" campaign. Engineers decided that bridges could span the most treacherous area of permafrost and that naturally cooled piping sunk into the ground could keep the tracks and embankment frozen to reduce instability. Bombardier of Canada supplied specially outfitted train cars that supply oxygen, like aircraft, to prevent sickness among passengers at high altitudes. A direct Beijing-to-Lhasa luxury train will be officially unveiled Saturday to coincide with the 85th anniversary of the founding of the ruling Communist Party. State media have been promoting the train for weeks as a new feather in the cap of state engineers who also celebrated the formal completion of the Three Gorges Dam, the world's largest dam, this spring. But the event is being tightly controlled by Chinese officials to ensure favorable coverage. They handpicked 40 foreign journalists to ride the first train. Other news organizations, including The New York Times, that purchased train tickets independently were denied permits to enter Tibetan territory. Even at the official price tag of $4.1 billion, the railway is difficult to justify in economic terms. Tibet's total gross domestic product in 2005 was $3.12 billion, so the payoff in terms of boosting economic activity would appear to lie decades in the future if it ever comes. Also, foreign engineers who have been involved with elements of the project, but asked not to be identified because they did not wish to offend their Chinese sponsors, say the railway will require heavy expenditures on maintenance and may be difficult to run for more than a decade without an extensive overhaul. Tibetan activists say they do not oppose the railway in principle but argue that it was conceived mainly to enhance China's economic and military control over the Tibetan region. Even as they promote the rail line, Chinese officials still focus heavily on combating what they call Tibetan separatism, especially the resilient loyalty there to the Dalai Lama. Zhang Qingli, recently appointed as the Communist Party's top official in Tibet, told party leaders there in May that they were engaged in "a fight to the death" against the Dalai Lama, Tibet Daily reported. BEIJING China this weekend is opening the world's highest railway, a 1,140- kilometer line that crosses the vertiginous Tibetan Plateau and forges a steel bond with the once secluded Buddhist holy city of Lhasa. The railway, expected to be inaugurated by President Hu Jintao and other top Communist Party cadres on a deluxe opening run, is an engineering marvel that traverses unstable permafrost and reaches more than 5,000 meters, or 16,500 feet, above sea level, higher than France's Mont Blanc. Party officials have hailed the $4.1 billion project, which was decades in the making, as a milestone in its efforts to develop its vast, poor western region and bring a fresh infusion of people and prosperity to remote Tibet. But Tibetan and foreign critics say the railway benefits Han Chinese, China's dominant ethnic group, at the expense of Tibetan natives. They argue that enhanced transportation links will accelerate a trend of Han-led economic development and smother Tibet's ancient spiritual culture, while undermining the pristine natural environment of its highlands. "The overwhelming opinion among Tibetans is that the railway will consolidate Chinese control and bring in huge numbers of Han Chinese," said Tenzin Tsundue, an independent Tibetan writer and activist who lives in India. "It will mean less employment and more destruction for Tibetans, not more opportunity," he said. On Friday, three women from the United States, Canada and Britain were detained briefly after they climbed through a second-floor window at Beijing's main train station and unfurled a black-and-white banner that read, "China's Tibet Railway, Designed to Destroy." Chinese officials defend the railway as vital to stimulating Tibet's development. They project it will double tourist revenues and reduce the cost of cargo transport by up to three-fourths. "The completion of the Qinghai-Tibet railway is a significant piece of good news longed for by the people in Qinghai Province and the Tibetan Autonomous Region," Zhu Zhensheng, executive vice director of the Qingzang Railway Office of the Chinese Railway Administration, said in a news briefing this past week. "The railway provides capacity for the quick flow of people, goods and information" and will directly contribute to the development of the area, Zhu said. Mao proposed extending a railway to Tibet after the People's Liberation Army invaded the territory and brought it firmly under Chinese control in 1951, sending the Dalai Lama, Tibet's spiritual leader, into exile. The first section, extending from Beijing to Golmud in Qinghai Province, was completed in 1984. But the 710-mile section connecting Golmud to Lhasa was put on indefinite hold. It would have to cross the Tibetan Plateau, survive extreme temperatures and stay fixed in the shifting permafrost of the highlands. The plan was revived in 2001, when it was promoted as a key element of the Communist Party's "Go West" campaign. Engineers decided that bridges could span the most treacherous area of permafrost and that naturally cooled piping sunk into the ground could keep the tracks and embankment frozen to reduce instability. Bombardier of Canada supplied specially outfitted train cars that supply oxygen, like aircraft, to prevent sickness among passengers at high altitudes. A direct Beijing-to-Lhasa luxury train will be officially unveiled Saturday to coincide with the 85th anniversary of the founding of the ruling Communist Party. State media have been promoting the train for weeks as a new feather in the cap of state engineers who also celebrated the formal completion of the Three Gorges Dam, the world's largest dam, this spring. But the event is being tightly controlled by Chinese officials to ensure favorable coverage. They handpicked 40 foreign journalists to ride the first train. Other news organizations, including The New York Times, that purchased train tickets independently were denied permits to enter Tibetan territory. Even at the official price tag of $4.1 billion, the railway is difficult to justify in economic terms. Tibet's total gross domestic product in 2005 was $3.12 billion, so the payoff in terms of boosting economic activity would appear to lie decades in the future if it ever comes. Also, foreign engineers who have been involved with elements of the project, but asked not to be identified because they did not wish to offend their Chinese sponsors, say the railway will require heavy expenditures on maintenance and may be difficult to run for more than a decade without an extensive overhaul. Tibetan activists say they do not oppose the railway in principle but argue that it was conceived mainly to enhance China's economic and military control over the Tibetan region. Even as they promote the rail line, Chinese officials still focus heavily on combating what they call Tibetan separatism, especially the resilient loyalty there to the Dalai Lama. Zhang Qingli, recently appointed as the Communist Party's top official in Tibet, told party leaders there in May that they were engaged in "a fight to the death" against the Dalai Lama, Tibet Daily reported. BEIJING China this weekend is opening the world's highest railway, a 1,140- kilometer line that crosses the vertiginous Tibetan Plateau and forges a steel bond with the once secluded Buddhist holy city of Lhasa. The railway, expected to be inaugurated by President Hu Jintao and other top Communist Party cadres on a deluxe opening run, is an engineering marvel that traverses unstable permafrost and reaches more than 5,000 meters, or 16,500 feet, above sea level, higher than France's Mont Blanc. Party officials have hailed the $4.1 billion project, which was decades in the making, as a milestone in its efforts to develop its vast, poor western region and bring a fresh infusion of people and prosperity to remote Tibet. But Tibetan and foreign critics say the railway benefits Han Chinese, China's dominant ethnic group, at the expense of Tibetan natives. They argue that enhanced transportation links will accelerate a trend of Han-led economic development and smother Tibet's ancient spiritual culture, while undermining the pristine natural environment of its highlands. "The overwhelming opinion among Tibetans is that the railway will consolidate Chinese control and bring in huge numbers of Han Chinese," said Tenzin Tsundue, an independent Tibetan writer and activist who lives in India. "It will mean less employment and more destruction for Tibetans, not more opportunity," he said. On Friday, three women from the United States, Canada and Britain were detained briefly after they climbed through a second-floor window at Beijing's main train station and unfurled a black-and-white banner that read, "China's Tibet Railway, Designed to Destroy." Chinese officials defend the railway as vital to stimulating Tibet's development. They project it will double tourist revenues and reduce the cost of cargo transport by up to three-fourths. "The completion of the Qinghai-Tibet railway is a significant piece of good news longed for by the people in Qinghai Province and the Tibetan Autonomous Region," Zhu Zhensheng, executive vice director of the Qingzang Railway Office of the Chinese Railway Administration, said in a news briefing this past week. "The railway provides capacity for the quick flow of people, goods and information" and will directly contribute to the development of the area, Zhu said. Mao proposed extending a railway to Tibet after the People's Liberation Army invaded the territory and brought it firmly under Chinese control in 1951, sending the Dalai Lama, Tibet's spiritual leader, into exile. The first section, extending from Beijing to Golmud in Qinghai Province, was completed in 1984. But the 710-mile section connecting Golmud to Lhasa was put on indefinite hold. It would have to cross the Tibetan Plateau, survive extreme temperatures and stay fixed in the shifting permafrost of the highlands. The plan was revived in 2001, when it was promoted as a key element of the Communist Party's "Go West" campaign. Engineers decided that bridges could span the most treacherous area of permafrost and that naturally cooled piping sunk into the ground could keep the tracks and embankment frozen to reduce instability. Bombardier of Canada supplied specially outfitted train cars that supply oxygen, like aircraft, to prevent sickness among passengers at high altitudes. A direct Beijing-to-Lhasa luxury train will be officially unveiled Saturday to coincide with the 85th anniversary of the founding of the ruling Communist Party. State media have been promoting the train for weeks as a new feather in the cap of state engineers who also celebrated the formal completion of the Three Gorges Dam, the world's largest dam, this spring. But the event is being tightly controlled by Chinese officials to ensure favorable coverage. They handpicked 40 foreign journalists to ride the first train. Other news organizations, including The New York Times, that purchased train tickets independently were denied permits to enter Tibetan territory. Even at the official price tag of $4.1 billion, the railway is difficult to justify in economic terms. Tibet's total gross domestic product in 2005 was $3.12 billion, so the payoff in terms of boosting economic activity would appear to lie decades in the future if it ever comes. Also, foreign engineers who have been involved with elements of the project, but asked not to be identified because they did not wish to offend their Chinese sponsors, say the railway will require heavy expenditures on maintenance and may be difficult to run for more than a decade without an extensive overhaul. Tibetan activists say they do not oppose the railway in principle but argue that it was conceived mainly to enhance China's economic and military control over the Tibetan region. Even as they promote the rail line, Chinese officials still focus heavily on combating what they call Tibetan separatism, especially the resilient loyalty there to the Dalai Lama. Zhang Qingli, recently appointed as the Communist Party's top official in Tibet, told party leaders there in May that they were engaged in "a fight to the death" against the Dalai Lama, Tibet Daily reported. BEIJING China this weekend is opening the world's highest railway, a 1,140- kilometer line that crosses the vertiginous Tibetan Plateau and forges a steel bond with the once secluded Buddhist holy city of Lhasa. The railway, expected to be inaugurated by President Hu Jintao and other top Communist Party cadres on a deluxe opening run, is an engineering marvel that traverses unstable permafrost and reaches more than 5,000 meters, or 16,500 feet, above sea level, higher than France's Mont Blanc. Party officials have hailed the $4.1 billion project, which was decades in the making, as a milestone in its efforts to develop its vast, poor western region and bring a fresh infusion of people and prosperity to remote Tibet. But Tibetan and foreign critics say the railway benefits Han Chinese, China's dominant ethnic group, at the expense of Tibetan natives. They argue that enhanced transportation links will accelerate a trend of Han-led economic development and smother Tibet's ancient spiritual culture, while undermining the pristine natural environment of its highlands. "The overwhelming opinion among Tibetans is that the railway will consolidate Chinese control and bring in huge numbers of Han Chinese," said Tenzin Tsundue, an independent Tibetan writer and activist who lives in India. "It will mean less employment and more destruction for Tibetans, not more opportunity," he said. On Friday, three women from the United States, Canada and Britain were detained briefly after they climbed through a second-floor window at Beijing's main train station and unfurled a black-and-white banner that read, "China's Tibet Railway, Designed to Destroy." Chinese officials defend the railway as vital to stimulating Tibet's development. They project it will double tourist revenues and reduce the cost of cargo transport by up to three-fourths. "The completion of the Qinghai-Tibet railway is a significant piece of good news longed for by the people in Qinghai Province and the Tibetan Autonomous Region," Zhu Zhensheng, executive vice director of the Qingzang Railway Office of the Chinese Railway Administration, said in a news briefing this past week. "The railway provides capacity for the quick flow of people, goods and information" and will directly contribute to the development of the area, Zhu said. Mao proposed extending a railway to Tibet after the People's Liberation Army invaded the territory and brought it firmly under Chinese control in 1951, sending the Dalai Lama, Tibet's spiritual leader, into exile. The first section, extending from Beijing to Golmud in Qinghai Province, was completed in 1984. But the 710-mile section connecting Golmud to Lhasa was put on indefinite hold. It would have to cross the Tibetan Plateau, survive extreme temperatures and stay fixed in the shifting permafrost of the highlands. The plan was revived in 2001, when it was promoted as a key element of the Communist Party's "Go West" campaign. Engineers decided that bridges could span the most treacherous area of permafrost and that naturally cooled piping sunk into the ground could keep the tracks and embankment frozen to reduce instability. Bombardier of Canada supplied specially outfitted train cars that supply oxygen, like aircraft, to prevent sickness among passengers at high altitudes. A direct Beijing-to-Lhasa luxury train will be officially unveiled Saturday to coincide with the 85th anniversary of the founding of the ruling Communist Party. State media have been promoting the train for weeks as a new feather in the cap of state engineers who also celebrated the formal completion of the Three Gorges Dam, the world's largest dam, this spring. But the event is being tightly controlled by Chinese officials to ensure favorable coverage. They handpicked 40 foreign journalists to ride the first train. Other news organizations, including The New York Times, that purchased train tickets independently were denied permits to enter Tibetan territory. Even at the official price tag of $4.1 billion, the railway is difficult to justify in economic terms. Tibet's total gross domestic product in 2005 was $3.12 billion, so the payoff in terms of boosting economic activity would appear to lie decades in the future if it ever comes. Also, foreign engineers who have been involved with elements of the project, but asked not to be identified because they did not wish to offend their Chinese sponsors, say the railway will require heavy expenditures on maintenance and may be difficult to run for more than a decade without an extensive overhaul. Tibetan activists say they do not oppose the railway in principle but argue that it was conceived mainly to enhance China's economic and military control over the Tibetan region. Even as they promote the rail line, Chinese officials still focus heavily on combating what they call Tibetan separatism, especially the resilient loyalty there to the Dalai Lama. Zhang Qingli, recently appointed as the Communist Party's top official in Tibet, told party leaders there in May that they were engaged in "a fight to the death" against the Dalai Lama, Tibet Daily reported. --- Good art however "immoral" is wholly a thing of virtue. Good art can NOT be immoral. By good art I mean art that bears true witness, I mean the art that is most precise. -- Ezra Pound __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 13:45:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "D. Wellman" Subject: Re: Langston Hughes/W.Dixon/Jimmy Reed, etc--a question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A difference. A subject that often causes me to marvel. It has always seemed to me that the brilliance of Pound's prosody lay in the use of assonance to establish properties of vowel duration, building from there his layered forms and the suggestion that musical values, in some primary sense, have inherent, architectonic measures. When he employs a prosody derived from accentual meters like the border ballads that have had such a strong influence on American poetry and song, say, in the Confucian Odes, it simply seems bad Robert Burns. As this thread suggests Langston Hughes prosody is of a different order, possibly related to blues. Allowing for some effects of syncopation, what I think we often find in Hughes, among other forms of visualizing the line (clearly he also often imitates Sandburg or Whitman, gospel as well as blues), is song of the sweetest and clearest expressive order. It is lines like these that intrigue me, from "Restrictive Covenants": When I move Into a neighborhood Folks fly. Even every foreigner That can move, moves. Why? Crowded accentuation, "folks fly." Echo and variation, use of rhyme, reflecting the simple common speech expressions. The assonance of all the /o/s of "move" and "moves." Political and perhaps timely meanings, but also a language of genuine bemusement, ironic maybe, innocent too in the way it essentializes shared human-ness. What I am trying to say in response to this thread is that everywhere in Hughes from start to finish, you will find examples of song working to highly expressive effect. You will not find imitation so much as invention, music that clarifies feeling; music drawing on multiple traditions, often with traces of apprehendible folk sources. Maybe there is a bases here for a continued discussion of prosody, musical phrase and speech patterns. Donald Wellman http://faculty.dwc.edu/wellman/pubs.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "ALDON L NIELSEN" To: Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 12:43 AM Subject: Re: Langston Hughes/W.Dixon/Jimmy Reed, etc--a question > No, that's Fenton Johnson (not to be confused with the prose writer of our > own > day) -- if James Weldon Johnson wrote much blues (in books, as opposed to > his > song writing), I've forgotten it for the moment -- > > Some of Hughes's blues poems work for me, some don't -- in the same way > that > some blues lyrics from recordings work when read without music, though > most > don't -- since Hughes was (with the excpetion of songs, like the Newport > episode) writing for publication and reading in most instances, he was up > to > something a bit different -- > > I doubt that Hughes would have been dealienating anything, but neither > would he > have seen these at all as opposed enterprises -- > > Chris, you know me all to well to be tempting me to comment on the ways of > white > liberal folk -- let's just say I know quite a few of them and actually > prefer > their company to the O'Reilly's of the world, all of whom seem to have > appointed themseleves lately as the "TRUE" defenders of what Rev. King > REALLY > meant -- > > To go back to Gil Scott Heron as you suggest slyly, who was the professor > of the > only creative writing class I ever took, check out his monologue on > Bluesology > -- great fun -- Gil once gave us an assignment to write something in which > we > described all twelve members of a jury -- I wrote a blues to a Jimmy Reed > tune > -- fortunately Reed wasn't nearby to hit me over the head -- Suffice it to > say > that my lyric wouldn't survive (and indeed has not) on either the page or > the > stage -- > > for me, and I hasten to add this is a highly personal opinion, blues, like > jazz, > is more important to poetry as an analogue than as a form to be > followed -- > which is one reason I prefer the Hughes of ASK YOUR MAMA to most of his > individual blues poems -- > > On Sun, 02 Jul 2006 17:31:01 +0000, Chris Stroffolino wrote: > >> Aldon----thanks for getting the ball rolling on this---One follow up >> question for you would be, in reference to the "doesn't hold up to >> the page" objection, would be this: >> Given the fact that Hughes did publish them in his books, would you >> say that Hughes' stand up on the page more so than the others? Do you >> agree with the perception that Hughes was trying to confer a >> specifically "literary" legitimacy onto this form on par with, say, >> the more white euro form of the sonnet? Do you think he was trying to >> de-alienate "literature" and "music" from each other as specialized >> fields? As later, say, Baraka might be said to (or we could get into >> Gil Scott Heron again I suppose)--- >> >> Your point about their being no blues literary scene is a good one I >> think---and to me points to what is so, I'll say, pioneering about >> what Hughes (and Johnson---I assume you mean james weldon not robert) >> did----I'm trying to figure how this relates to this broader >> (empirical, but probably controversial) observation in today's >> society: In popular music, to a large extent, even the most white- >> power culturally segratated whites, have to acknowledge the crucial >> importance and influence and relevance of black musicians (though >> perhaps less so now than 25-30 years ago)----Yet, in the field of >> literature and poetry (if understood as cut off from music, and >> specifically that which 'holds up well on the page'), there are still >> quite a few 'well-intentioned' liberal whites groping desperately and/ >> or cluelessly to change their standards, or 'make exceptions,' when >> it comes to considering the history of diaspora poetry (warning: >> shorthand term) (Hughes being on the level of Pound or Williams, for >> instance, is not heard as much as say Bird on the level of Stravinski >> or 'the stones stole it from Chuck Berry').... and what to make of >> that, and where to go next.... >> >> (okay, that's my two posts for today....) >> >> Chris >> >> On Jul 2, 2006, at 5:00 PM, ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: >> >> > well, the one obvious intersection is that moment at Newport when >> > the Muddy >> > Waters band plays the song that Hughes wrote while listening - I >> > think it's on >> > the Muddy at Newport album, but don't have it in front of me - >> > >> > And don't be so quick to dismiss that "it doesn't hold up on the >> > page" objection >> > -- Most popular song lyrics don't hold up in the absence of music, >> > and were >> > never intended to -- there are, of course, numerous exceptions -- >> > so let's not >> > rush to make that a general rule any more than we rush to rule out the >> > page/stage distinctions -- >> > >> > there are blues lyrics that hold up quite well: >> > >> > I'm going down to the river, gonna take my rocking chair; >> > If the blues overtake me, I'll rock on out of there. >> > >> > >> > and there are blues lyrics that don't hold up so well-- which is >> > one reason I >> > just love those loving transcriptions that reverently preserve >> > every "uh huh" >> > etc. >> > >> > Buddy Guy singng "Heard people tell, the mighty dollar done fell" - >> > is poetry to >> > me -- John Lee Hooker's BOOGIE CHILDREN is a great record, but it >> > will never >> > make compelling reading -- or reciting -- >> > >> > the essential difference between those slam poets you mention (yes >> > I know them . >> > . . I had to rearrange thir faces . . . ) and "hip hop artists, is >> > the producer >> > -- >> > >> > there was never a blues poetry "scene" coincident in the same way >> > with blues as >> > music in performance -- just several poets (Highes, Brown, Johnson) >> > who >> > included the form in their repertoire - >> > >> > >> > >> > On Sun, 02 Jul 2006 16:41:34 +0000, Chris Stroffolino wrote: >> > >> >> Hey, I got in a really good discussion the other day about Langston >> >> Hughes' blues poems >> >> (and yes I know that he recorded quite a few of them) and their >> >> relationship to the blues lyrics >> >> of, for instance, the folks above, or John Lee Hooker, Big Mama >> >> Thornton, Ma Rainey, etc--- >> >> >> >> And if anybody else here would maybe be interested in talking about >> >> that relationship here-- >> >> Does it matter that Hughes worked primarily in a different field (in >> >> the artistic specialization sense) than these other folks? >> >> Is it somewhat analogous to the difference between, say, million >> >> selling hip hop artists today vs. a slam poet aesthetic which >> >> utilizes many devices of rap/hip hop? >> >> Or, for that matter, even the difference between say Bob Dylan and >> >> Allen Ginsberg's songs? >> >> >> >> There's alot of room for discussion (and, sure, bring on the "blues >> >> bashers" though I'm definitely trying to >> >> avoid the tired argument "it doesn't stand up on the page" and will >> >> try not to engage it here if it comes up)-- >> >> Also, if anybody knows of any good essays on the subject---- >> >> specifically about Hughes and some of the other recorded bluesmen of >> >> the 20th C---that'd be a nice supplement, but I really am not a big >> >> fan of posts that just send LINKS >> >> without any commentary as to why I'm supposed to check out the >> >> link...... >> >> a discussion might be nice (but be careful what you ask for, >> >> Chris---) >> >> >> >> C >> >> >> >> >> > >> > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >> > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." >> > --Emily Dickinson >> > >> > Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ >> > >> > Aldon L. Nielsen >> > Kelly Professor of American Literature >> > The Pennsylvania State University >> > 116 Burrowes >> > University Park, PA 16802-6200 >> > >> > (814) 865-0091 >> >> > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > --Emily Dickinson > > Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > > Aldon L. Nielsen > Kelly Professor of American Literature > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 13:49:31 -0400 Reply-To: az421@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: new(ish) on rob's clever blog Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT new(ish) on rob's clever blog -- Ongoing notes: early early July (Calgary's NO Press; Seymour Mayne's HAIL/GRANIZO; Stephen Cain in dANDelion; David W. McFadden) -- Laura Farina's This Woman Alphabetical (Pedlar Press) & Terry Ann Carter's Transplanted (Borealis) -- my mother + Alan Ladd -- Arc Poetry Magazine #56 -- The Factory Reading Series -- Jon Paul Fiorentino's The Theory of the Loser Class (Coach House Books) -- Two collaborations: Continuations by Douglas Barbour and Sheila E. Murphy (University of Alberta Press) and apostrophe by Bill Kennedy and Darren Wershler-Henry (ECW Press) -- Sina Queyras' Lemon Hound (Coach House Books) -- Ongoing notes: the ottawa small press book fair, spring 2006 (Dusty Owl; INDUSTRIAL SABOTAGE #62; In/Words; Cathy Ford's "FOR YOUR KIND EXPRESSION OF SYMPATHY A HEARTFELT THANK YOU") -- Nathalie Stephens' JE NATHANAL (BookThug) -- Running the Goat Press, St. John's, Newfoundland -- The League of Canadian Poets: Ottawa agm -- LETTERS BOOKSHOP, 77 FLORENCE STREET 104, TORONTO M6K 1P4 -- The History of the World & Leonard Cohen -- Poetics.ca #6 (finally!) now on-line -- Ongoing notes: The Toronto Small Press Book Fair (chapbook/ephemera edition) -- Toronto report: -- Vile lego (collaboration with Gregory Betts) -- every edit is a lie (poem) -- Ongoing Notes: late late May, 2006 (Larissa Lai's Nascent Fashion, MODL Press; Barbara Jane Reyes' Poeta en San Francisco, Tinfish; Geoffrey Young's fickle sonnets, Fuck A Duck; Norther, eds. budde & f.; Laurier Poetry Series) www.robmclennan.blogspot.com + some other new things at ottawa poetry newsletter, www.ottawapoetry.blogspot.com -- poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics (Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...11th coll'n - name , an errant (Stride, UK) .... c/o 858 Somerset St W, Ottawa ON K1R 6R7 * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 17:32:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: J Kuszai Subject: Southpaw Culture on Bernstein's Blog Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed After receiving some recent titles, Charles Bernstein sent me a series=20= of questions regarding the Southpaw Culture series currently coming out=20= from Factory School. Since these books are not generally known by too=20 many in Poeticsland it was a useful prompt to introduce some of the=20 books and some of the ideas behind the series. The interview recently appeared on his blog, which can be found at: http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/bernstein/blog/ If anyone has any interest in being involved in this project, or would=20= like to know more, I=92d be happy discuss all this further. For more information on these and many other Factory School books,=20 please visit http://factoryschool.org/pubs/ Thanks! Joel Kuszai ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 17:17:17 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Comics & poetry In-Reply-To: <325.6ec7374.31d7f63c@aol.com> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Me too. Has anyone mentioned Margaret Atwood's comics? I mean real ones, not like Blake, say. gb On 1-Jul-06, at 9:01 AM, Mike Luster wrote: > I've come late to this thread so I don't know if anyone has mentioned > Ed > Dorn's Recollections of the Gran Apacheria. > > Mike Luster > > George Bowering, D.Litt. A true innocent. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 02:09:04 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Hot Whiskey Press Subject: Hot Whiskey 2 In-Reply-To: <4b2211bd0607050107t156f1a67g43326c33f811d664@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Dear All, Wanted to let everyone know that Hot Whiskey 2 is finally out. Includes poetry, prose and essay from: Edward Sanders =B7 Dodie Bellamy =B7 Travis Macdonald Logan Ryan Smith =B7 Clayton Eshleman =B7 Michelle McMahon CA Conrad =B7 Susan Briante =B7 Anne Waldman =B7 Dale Smith Ron Silliman =B7 Adam Clay =B7 James Bertolino Cover Art by Jim Behrle Silk-screened cover, 6 1/2 X 8 1/2", saddle-stitch binding, 57 pages. $7 To see cover and/or obtain a copy, go to www.hotwhiskeyblog.blogspot.com. always, the whisketeers -- Hot Whiskey Press www.hotwhiskeyblog.blogspot.com www.hotwhiskeypress.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 11:12:05 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Jeffrey Newman Subject: New on Its All Connected Comments: To: "'Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics'"@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU, POETRYETC@JISCMAIL.AC.UK MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Newly posted on my blog, Its All Connected (http://itsallconnected.wordpress.com) , CavanKerry Press - An Appreciation. Rich Newman ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 11:05:58 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dodie Bellamy Subject: Dodie Bellamy digs through Kathy Acker's clothes Comments: To: ampersand@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Kathy Acker, the novelist and theorist, died from breast cancer in 1997. Her papers are at Duke, but her clothes and accessories remain in the possession of her executor Matias Viegener. I will display a selection of Kathy Acker's clothes during my 5-day residency at New Langton Arts, and on Wednesday, July 12 at 7:00 I will give a presentation, "Digging Through Kathy Acker's Stuff." Last February while visiting Viegener in Los Angeles, I rummaged through Acker's extravagant designer wardrobe, and wheedled one of her Gautier dresses from him, and a couple pieces of jewelry. Possessing such intimate effects of a woman I wasn't so much friends with as in awe of, I felt compelled to write it all out. I meditate upon relics, ghosts, compulsive shopping, archives, make-up, our drive to mythologize the dead, Acker's own self-mythologizing, the struggle among followers to define Acker, bitch fights, and the numina of DNA. Note: Kevin Killian will also be part of the Squatter's exhibit. His space will be devoted to all 132 issues of our zine Mirage, as well as a selection of art that inspired our zine. Details about the general exhibit are below. Hope to see you there! Dodie ----------------------------- Five Habitats: Squatting at Langton Tuesday July 11 - Saturday August 12 Opening Reception: Tuesday, July 11, 7-10 pm Reading by Dodie Bellamy: Wednesday, July 12, 7 pm Admission: $8/$5 Members, students, and seniors New Langton Arts 1246 Folsom Street San Francisco, CA 94103-3817 For further information: 415.626.5416 www.newlangtonarts.org Five Habitats: Squatting at Langton is a laboratory-style, experiential exhibition modeled after Jock Reynolds' 1978 show Five Habitats for Five Members at Langton's original location, 80 Langton Street. In 2006, Langton challenges artist curators John Baldessari, Keith Boadwee, Matthew Higgs, Joseph del Pesco, and Anne Walsh to each invite five artists working across disciplines for one-week intervals to occupy and activate the gallery space. Korean-born architect Kyu Che designed five habitats in the gallery to be transformed by the artists into open studios, exhibition spaces, lounges, working stations, discussion forums, screening venues, performance settings, and more. Week One: July 11 - 15 Curator: Matthew Higgs Artists: Dodie Bellamy, Chris Cobb, Alexis Georgopoulos, Kevin Killian, and Mitzi Pederson. Kathy Acker, the novelist and theorist, died from breast cancer in 1997. Her papers are at Duke, but her clothes and accessories remain in the possession of her executor, Matias Viegener. Dodie Bellamy will display a selection of Kathy Acker's clothes during her residency at New Langton Arts, and on Wednesday, July 12 she will give a presentation, "Digging Through Kathy Acker's Stuff." During his one-week residency at Langton, Chris Cobb creates a lounge area to listen to the music of Devendra Banhart and the Hairy Fairy Band . Cobb, a big fan of Devendra's "freak funk" music, proposes a space that welcomes visitors to listen to the band's albums. It also includes a large number of photographs of them--both in concert and back stage--taken by Cobb. Musician, composer and artist Alexis Georgopoulos presents ARP , occupying the smallest space Kyu Che designed for the exhibition. As such, Georgopoulos has chosen the intimate idea of getting together with a friend or acquaintance to share a cup of tea, to take a moment, to slow down, and perhaps, reflect. Georgopoulos places a table, a tea set for two, and two speakers in the space. In this intimate, almost cocoon-like setting, the music Georgopoulos has composed as ARP will play as a backdrop. San Francisco writer Kevin Killian re-stages an exhibition presented earlier this Spring at White Columns, New York, Other People's Projects: Dodie Bellamy and Kevin Killian . At White Columns Killian and Bellamy presented a complete run of their pioneering literary 'zine "Mirage/Period(ical)" alongside contributions from some of the artists and writers who have appeared on its pages. At Langton Killian will display 132 issues of the zine, and artworks by a variety of local and international artists. Mitzi Pederson creates a new installation that explores ideas of tension, gravity, and systems interconnectivity. Pederson uses the "subterranean space", which is transformed into a private de-orchestrated piece, where the presence and movements of multiple bodies determines the effects on the space, ranging from calm qualities to periodic audible and visual disruptions. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 21:54:24 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: the Poets' Corner MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Dear All, An update for the Poets' Corner: newly featured Poets: *David Bircumshaw* http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3DContent&pa=3Dlist_pages_catego= ries&cid=3D205 *Ray DiPalma* http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3DContent&pa=3Dlist_pages_catego= ries&cid=3D206 *Tom Orange* http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3DContent&pa=3Dlist_pages_catego= ries&cid=3D207 *Skip Fox* http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3DContent&pa=3Dlist_pages_catego= ries&cid=3D208 *Ingrid Wendt* http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3DContent&pa=3Dlist_pages_catego= ries&cid=3D209 *Ralph Salisbury* http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3DContent&pa=3Dlist_pages_catego= ries&cid=3D210 *Lesley Wheeler* http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3DContent&pa=3Dlist_pages_catego= ries&cid=3D211 New poems by already featured Authors: by *Grace Cavalieri* The secret Jew http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D1518 Walking The Property http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D1539 by *Linh Dinh* My Local Burning http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D1519 Investment Advices http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D1520 Menu http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D1579 by *Richard Dillon* Loveland http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D1532 by *Fan Ogilvie* with a new updated bio: http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D709 LIGHTS, FLOORS, THE DOG PEN http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D1533 WHALE WATCHING http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D1534 TOWARDS THE FOREST http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D1540 by *Alan Sondheim* memories of Trilby, work and the incessant rhythm of desire http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D1535 dervish http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D1549 When I'm dead and I'm looking for my baby http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D1580 by *William Allegrezza* bits from Austin http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D1536 with my hands http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D1537 one opening http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D1538 by* Barry Alpert* MY FILM ISN'T LIKE MEDITATION http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D1541 TALK, JONAS MEKAS http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D1578 by *Jill Jones* You can only see http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D1542 by *S.K. Kelen* Hanoi Girls http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D1557 by *Halvard Johnson* Splendid Hegemonies http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D1573 And finally *Sheila Murphy and Douglas Barbour* with a few of their newer sections of their collaborative on-going poem, Continuations, the first 25 of which have just been publishe= d by University of Alberta Press ( http://www.uap.ualberta.ca/UAP.asp?LID=3D41&bookID=3D664): XXXIV. http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D1582 XXXV. http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D1583 XXXVI. http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D1584 XXXVII. http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D1585 XXXVIII. http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D1586 Under *Poets on Poets*, some of my translations into Italian: L'ebreo segreto di *Grace Cavalieri* Camminando Sulla Propriet=E0 di *Grace Cavalieri* http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3Dpoetsonpoets&pa=3Dlist_pages_c= ategories&cid=3D41 LOVELAND di *Richard Dillon* http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3Dpoetsonpoets&pa=3Dlist_pages_c= ategories&cid=3D37 Biografia . *Fan Ogilvie* da LUCI, PAVIMENTI, IL CANILE di *Fan Ogilvie* VERSO LA FORESTA di *Fan Ogilvie* http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3Dpoetsonpoets&pa=3Dlist_pages_c= ategories&cid=3D58 pezzettini da austin di *William Allegrezza* con le mani di *William Allegrezza* un'apertura di *William Allegrezza* http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3Dpoetsonpoets&pa=3Dlist_pages_c= ategories&cid=3D59 Biografia =96 *Jill Jones* Puoi solo vedere di *Jill Jones* http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3Dpoetsonpoets&pa=3Dlist_pages_c= ategories&cid=3D60 Bio di* S.K. Kelen* http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3Dpoetsonpoets&pa=3Dlist_pages_c= ategories&cid=3D23 The main index: http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3DContent The order of apparition reflects the order by which I received the contribution. With my acknowledgement to all featured Authors, and with my best wishes, Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3Dpoetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 15:29:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Postcards for Tribes Show Comments: To: lucipo listserv Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Anyone who would like a postcard from my Tribes show in NYC, please back ch= annel with address. Cheers Christophe Casamassima Professor Emiritus, Modern Languages & Philology University of Jamaica Avenue, Queens, N.Y. --=20 ___________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.graffiti.net/ Powered By Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 15:39:41 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: fluxus fashion show .pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi. I'm a member of LA Art Girls, and we just has a fashion show at LACE here in LA. We made a pamphlet, and I can .pdf you a copy (designed to be printed out landscape, double sided) if you'd like. Just request one at cadaly at comcast dot net It was right before my sister's wedding (yes it was great), and so I was unable to realize my plan to veil the audience. All best, Catherine Daly ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 17:23:14 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: The Moon in Lake Erie - Improvisation #4 - New Audio by Lewis LaCook Comments: To: Leiws LaCook , netbehaviour MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The Moon in Lake Erie - Improvisation # 4 Mp3 audio. It's a sad sauce for ears. What space lovely. Evangelion. *************************************************************************** ||http://www.lewislacook.org|| sign up now! poetry, code, forums, blogs, newsfeeds... || http://www.corporatepa.com || Everything creative for business -- New York Web Design and Consulting Corporate Performance Artists --------------------------------- Open multiple messages at once with the all new Yahoo! Mail Beta. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 22:38:24 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Orange Subject: Berssenbrugge's Fish Souls MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hello poetics folks, if anyone has a copy of the following that they'd be willing to xerox and mail to me (or scan and email as a PDF) i'd very much appreciate it. there are only 3 libraries in the OCLC system (north america and europe) that have this title and none are willing/able to interlibrary loan it. Title: Fish Souls Author: Berssenbrugge, Mei-mei Publication: San Francisco : Greenwood Press, 1972 much thanks, tom orange ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 21:49:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: another shot at post modernism In-Reply-To: <447A443A.6090501@adelphia.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It has been argued that modernism ended with the Atomic Bomb being dropped on Hiroshima or Auschwitz take your pick and that Postmodernism begins a that time which fits rather well since Olson coined the term in the 1950's . It has also been argued by Visual Art critics that Postmodernism began to wane with the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989. No new term has been coined for what has been going on since that time. I for one would argue that we are still in a Postmodern period but I think this is key we are also in a Neo-Liberal period which has supplanted Leftist ideologies everywhere except in Latin America of late. So how do we reconcile Postmodernism with the fact that most of the world, US, China, India, most of Europe and Japan (About 80% of the global economy) has become Neo Liberal ("conservative" in American Parlance)? I would argue that the end of Marxism as a political system in the 1990's left a void that no one has filled with new ideas and this is the main reason we have these Postmodernist arguments. Until the global discussion on the left in Art, Literature, Politics and Economics coalesces into some sort of alternative vision it will remain fractured and sidelined and we will continue to have wars and Ted Kooser as US Poet Laureate. -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of george thompson Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2006 7:46 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: another shot at post modernism I am a little puzzled by those who would deny that there is a thing that can be rightly called post modernism. I think that the recent witty banter about Bernstein & Silliman, or Woody Allen & Altman, presumes that there is in fact a significant difference here, and for people like Alex Saliby who want to get a handle on these terms, these denials don't seem helpful. Of course, I agree with Mark Weiss & others who have suggested that the term post modernism is too broad and over-used. But, though I am a Sanskritist with my head buried in remote Vedic antiquity, I happen to be surrounded by artists in my family, and I have for some strange reason been teaching at an art school for the past dozen years or so. As such, I have no doubt that there is a post modernism that we should acknowledge, as such. I am convinced that most of us have come to have certain reservations about modernism. To the extent that we do, we are all post modern. I think that all of us who are feminists are post modern. I think that all of us who identify ourselves as ethnic are post modern. I think that all of us who identify ourselves as gay are post modern. I think that all of us who are drawn to non-European arts & cultures are post modern as well. Actually, I think that all of us are post modern, whether we know it or not. I mentioned McEvilley earlier. He was involved in a famous debate in the 80's concerning a well-known show at MOMA, "Primitivism" in Twentieth Century Art: Affinity of the Tribal and the Modern. Many of you are familiar with this, I'm sure. He was an editor at Artforum at the time, and he was one of the people who led the charge against MOMA modernism. I use the exchange between him and the curators of the MOMA show to introduce students to post modernism. My students almost totally self-identify as post modernist in response to this debate between McEvilley and the curators of this show, well-known and influential people like William Rubin and Kirk Varnedoe, guardians of the modernist church of art., both now dead And then we turn to film history. Even the slowest students recognize that when we turn to recent films we have entered into a landscape that is no longer modernist. One example: Chris Nolan's "Memento." They love it. Their parents hate it. George Thompson ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 22:59:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: fishing for fish souls MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I can't believe that you don't want to pay $675 for that signed copy that's available for sale over the net -- or $350 for that unsigned copy -- I don't have any of my books with me -- did you check to see if those poems reoccur in any later books of hers? <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 23:11:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: Hot Whiskey 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit how does one submit? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 00:21:27 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Orange Subject: fishing for fish souls In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit al, the recent cal press new and selected begins with selections from summits move with the tide (1974) and does not appear to include anything from fish souls. (i've not seen a table of contents for the latter.) t. -------- Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 22:59:43 -0400 From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: fishing for fish souls I can't believe that you don't want to pay $675 for that signed copy that's available for sale over the net -- or $350 for that unsigned copy -- I don't have any of my books with me -- did you check to see if those poems reoccur in any later books of hers? ----- Original Message ----- > > Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 22:38:24 -0400 > From: Thomas Orange > Subject: Berssenbrugge's Fish Souls > > hello poetics folks, > > if anyone has a copy of the following that they'd be willing to xerox and mail to me (or scan > and email as a PDF) i'd very much appreciate it. there are only 3 libraries in the OCLC > system (north america and europe) that have this title and none are willing/able to interlibrary loan it. > > Title: Fish Souls > Author: Berssenbrugge, Mei-mei > Publication: San Francisco : Greenwood Press, 1972 > > much thanks, > tom orange > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 23:54:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: Berssenbrugge's Fish Souls MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hi tom orange good meeting you at vision fest steve ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 23:47:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: fishing for fish souls In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed tom--maybe you might best try contacting the author?-- >From: Thomas Orange >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: fishing for fish souls >Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 00:21:27 -0400 > >al, > >the recent cal press new and selected begins with selections from summits >move with the >tide (1974) and does >not appear to include anything from fish souls. (i've not seen a table of >contents for the >latter.) > >t. > >-------- >Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 22:59:43 -0400 >From: ALDON L NIELSEN >Subject: Re: fishing for fish souls > >I can't believe that you don't want to pay $675 for that signed copy that's >available for sale over the net -- or $350 for that unsigned copy -- > >I don't have any of my books with me -- did you check to see if those poems >reoccur in any later books of hers? > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 22:38:24 -0400 > > From: Thomas Orange > > Subject: Berssenbrugge's Fish Souls > > > > hello poetics folks, > > > > if anyone has a copy of the following that they'd be willing to xerox >and mail to me (or >scan > > and email as a PDF) i'd very much appreciate it. there are only 3 >libraries in the OCLC > > system (north america and europe) that have this title and none are >willing/able to >interlibrary loan it. > > > > Title: Fish Souls > > Author: Berssenbrugge, Mei-mei > > Publication: San Francisco : Greenwood Press, 1972 > > > > much thanks, > > tom orange > > _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 22:47:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Tod Edgerton Subject: Re: fishing for fish souls In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Yes, how would one do that.... David-Baptiste Chirot wrote: tom--maybe you might best try contacting the author?-- >From: Thomas Orange >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: fishing for fish souls >Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 00:21:27 -0400 > >al, > >the recent cal press new and selected begins with selections from summits >move with the >tide (1974) and does >not appear to include anything from fish souls. (i've not seen a table of >contents for the >latter.) > >t. > >-------- >Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 22:59:43 -0400 >From: ALDON L NIELSEN >Subject: Re: fishing for fish souls > >I can't believe that you don't want to pay $675 for that signed copy that's >available for sale over the net -- or $350 for that unsigned copy -- > >I don't have any of my books with me -- did you check to see if those poems >reoccur in any later books of hers? > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 22:38:24 -0400 > > From: Thomas Orange > > Subject: Berssenbrugge's Fish Souls > > > > hello poetics folks, > > > > if anyone has a copy of the following that they'd be willing to xerox >and mail to me (or >scan > > and email as a PDF) i'd very much appreciate it. there are only 3 >libraries in the OCLC > > system (north america and europe) that have this title and none are >willing/able to >interlibrary loan it. > > > > Title: Fish Souls > > Author: Berssenbrugge, Mei-mei > > Publication: San Francisco : Greenwood Press, 1972 > > > > much thanks, > > tom orange > > _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ Michael Tod Edgerton Poet-in-Residence, Spring 2006 Stonehill College __________________ Peter Kaplan Memorial Fellow, 2004 - 2006 Program in Literary Arts Brown University "There's the mute probability of a reciprocal lack of understanding" - Mei-mei Berssenbrugge __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 22:53:03 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: another shot at post modernism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable George, Ray,=20 Thanks for your thoughts and insight, or should that be incite? =20 Alex P.S.=20 I have an entirely different view now that I've read even more in my = attempts at justifying the label, Postmodernism. I believe the problem = is not that there are not differences among a host of players but rather = that the label fails to assist in identifying any of the reasons for the = differences: arts, engineering, architecture, literature (and here I = differentiate prose from poetry because as I examine elements, I see a = time difference between the two in when an ideological shift ocurred) = and indeed music, dance and the live theater all took off in new = directions. However, for me, the problem lies with the labels = themselves. The names are useless as descriptors of any ideology that = may have predominated during a score or more of years for whatever = reasons: Moderns, Post Moderns, who ever the hell they are, or whenever = in time the differences originated. These words, Modernists & Postmodernists, in point of fact, are = meaningless for several reasons; they are words of far too common use = with far too widely used denotative and connotative meanings to be = narrowed to the level of title of an era or a movement in any meaningful = sense. And the identity problem is exacerbated by the horrendous = difficulty of sorting through the complex maze of ideas that found their = way into open expression from the turn of the century upward throughout = the middle half of the century. =20 I abandoned my efforts at understanding any philosophical and practical = creative differences for that which is labeled "Post Modern," and I've = embarked upon a totally different mission. I've begun a search for a = more meaningful label. =20 My thought is that if I can assemble a sort of matrix of mayhem I can = place certain "creators" into various boxes under 'to come' headings in = the matrix. =20 I may end my efforts in total frustration=20 The issue is not that creativity didn't take some drastically different = turns in many areas (some areas long before others), the issue is simply = those who coined the name for the changes failed to be descriptive of = any differences and focused on the simple element of time...Modern, = Post-modern. Wow that must have burned lots of intellectual BTU's. (any = idea who we should blame for that name? Was it Olson? How = disappointing; I thought more highly of him than that). I may fail in my efforts to label more accurately...perhaps definitively = is a better word than accurately, but if I do, nothing will have been = lost, and who knows, I may succeed in sticking some names into some = pigeon holes that actually make more ideological and thematic sense than = the over-generalized and sloppily applied term of Postmodernist. =20 And of course, I'm open and willing to receive any labels you all may = offer. Alex=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Haas Bianchi=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 7:49 PM Subject: Re: another shot at post modernism It has been argued that modernism ended with the Atomic Bomb being = dropped on Hiroshima or Auschwitz take your pick and that Postmodernism begins = a that time which fits rather well since Olson coined the term in the = 1950's . It has also been argued by Visual Art critics that Postmodernism began = to wane with the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989. No new term has been = coined for what has been going on since that time. I for one would argue that = we are still in a Postmodern period but I think this is key we are also = in a Neo-Liberal period which has supplanted Leftist ideologies everywhere = except in Latin America of late. So how do we reconcile Postmodernism with = the fact that most of the world, US, China, India, most of Europe and Japan = (About 80% of the global economy) has become Neo Liberal ("conservative" in American Parlance)?=20 I would argue that the end of Marxism as a political system in the = 1990's left a void that no one has filled with new ideas and this is the main reason we have these Postmodernist arguments. Until the global = discussion on the left in Art, Literature, Politics and Economics coalesces into = some sort of alternative vision it will remain fractured and sidelined and we = will continue to have wars and Ted Kooser as US Poet Laureate.=20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group = [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of george thompson Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2006 7:46 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: another shot at post modernism I am a little puzzled by those who would deny that there is a thing = that can be rightly called post modernism. I think that the recent witty banter about Bernstein & Silliman, or = Woody Allen & Altman, presumes that there is in fact a significant = difference here, and for people like Alex Saliby who want to get a handle on = these terms, these denials don't seem helpful. Of course, I agree with Mark Weiss & others who have suggested that = the term post modernism is too broad and over-used. But, though I am a = Sanskritist with my head buried in remote Vedic antiquity, I happen to be = surrounded by artists in my family, and I have for some strange reason been teaching = at an art school for the past dozen years or so. =20 As such, I have no doubt that there is a post modernism that we should acknowledge, as such. I am convinced that most of us have come to have certain reservations = about modernism. To the extent that we do, we are all post modern. I think = that all of us who are feminists are post modern. I think that all of us = who identify ourselves as ethnic are post modern. I think that all of us = who identify ourselves as gay are post modern. I think that all of us who = are drawn to non-European arts & cultures are post modern as well. = Actually, I think that all of us are post modern, whether we know it or not. I mentioned McEvilley earlier. He was involved in a famous debate in = the 80's concerning a well-known show at MOMA, "Primitivism" in Twentieth Century Art: Affinity of the Tribal and the Modern. Many of you are = familiar with this, I'm sure. He was an editor at Artforum at the time, and he = was one of the people who led the charge against MOMA modernism. I use = the exchange between him and the curators of the MOMA show to introduce = students to post modernism. My students almost totally self-identify as post modernist in response = to this debate between McEvilley and the curators of this show, = well-known and influential people like William Rubin and Kirk Varnedoe, guardians of = the modernist church of art., both now dead And then we turn to film history. Even the slowest students recognize = that when we turn to recent films we have entered into a landscape that is = no longer modernist. One example: Chris Nolan's "Memento." They love it. Their parents = hate it. George Thompson ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 00:10:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: clifford Subject: and MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline hello from http://takingthebrim.blogspot.com/ come visit us. Taking the Brim _ Took the Broom Taking the Brim__Took the Broom_ this group space of appreciation polemic_is Cabaret__positive interested__calL it ECRiTuRe_ poems, Images, collage,audio,theory, Pop discourse of the same, lines of thought, slope line, space_one desire-machine crossing the plane, crissing the other,plugging in,the transversality of verse, the metanoia of gloss and revision. 'Work' is defined as text,image either complete or in 'progress'__ Things mutate,transforms, metamorphosis . _________ may all yer days be filled with Broom & Brim. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 01:13:15 -0700 Reply-To: ishaq1824@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: Olivet (H.A.T.s in the Square) lord patch vs Jay FN Cee MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/07/10440.php Olivet (H.A.T.s in the Square) "...it reminds me of the eulogy that Rabbi Yakov Perin gave for Baruch Goldstein, the Israeli settler who murdered 29 Palestinians in Hebron in 1994. He said, “One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail.” ....I want to say that it's very deeply painful to me as a Palestinian that while Palestinians in Gaza are demonstrating,...to urge the resistance not to release the soldier until their prisoners and hostages held by Israel are released,... what all Israelis have to realize is that the age of colonialism has ended." -- Ali Abunimah audio: MP3 at 10.4 mebibytes http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/olivet___h.a.t.s_in_the_square___loud_ruffa1.mp3 (download torrent) http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/torrents/olivet___h.a.t.s_in_the_square___loud_ruffa1.mp3.torrent Olivet (H.A.T.s in the Square) by larence ytzhak braithwaite (aka Lord Patch) Music: Jay FN Cee (aka Hurrricane Angel) I stomp my feet and you feel my kai I stomp my feet and you feel my kai I stomp my feet and you feel my kai I stomp my feet and you feel my kai Mi kai mi smash H.A.T.s in the Square Rollin up trousers Baggies And peaches Do you dare Gasaraki Iraqis bombin back Tragedy With the aid of Dr Zin Protect me from the jinn I stomp my feet and you feel my kai Banana bikes and pushers Pushin children Into mental institutions Come Come My selectah Mix for me something Propoganda Isa As Our commander Mu'mi/neen Throwin signifiers Elligtonian Shines and spear chucker Nah fix me Mix me Something sweet woht will destroy ameriKKKa// do you? do you? do you? I stomp my feet and you feel my kai I stomp my feet do you feel my kai? I stomp my feet do you feel my kai ? I stomp my feet and you feel my kai ¡Ya! Basta Yuh bastards Take one back to your masters Big phat warders Rapist called soldiers Insh'allah I'll show the real uses of Coxn's crossfader// ¡Ya! Sabahah... He said: Always see everything my brutha (re: Ghost Dog to Rza) Suckaz// They wanna make my people unreal <¡Ya!> over dub Watch my tantric circles Armless standard barers Visualz over dub Come the bringer of water I'll bet your house Ain't built as strong as a Shi'i Blaring blasphemy Chattin rubbish Our life lost in the bush Huntin with Jeffery Oil and thievery Did he liked to roll Or just the download Of my selectahz lowlow Ayo, "Let's go get ivy" Scratchin downtempo stereo and typin Colin Ferguson/tranformin Into B-boy frustration I stomp my feet and you feel my kai It's jus the same ol show Y'Kno I stomp my feet and you feel my kai I stomp my feet and you feel my kai It's jus the same ol show I stomp my feet do you feel my kai? I stomp my feet and you feel my kai I stomp my feet and you feel my kai // over dub Read my flow real slow I flexable Like junkies on lowlows You cyan catch me I'm addicted To dream scapes seen? Let the drummer get Ital// Jays Samples real clean Physical dub plates Pumpin bikes A beats break a/ Mean smiles Wide as Big Youth// Flex his truth Yuh cayn get Next to My argy bargy Fassy Snears Come the Mahdi He'll ride fear Yuh hater ass toy Don't stand in my square Angered angels Yell Surround my proximity We duckin Jakes Now ain't that wicked Mics and bikes Never break For snakes Ah for heavensake What's the price Of these exchange rapes Seize him by his forelocks We shall call the guards of hell I stomp my feet and you feel my kai I stomp my feet and you feel my kai Let him call upon his gang Kiss me kneck Watch them step Heavy heavy Prophets on Olivets Enemy of the republic Spits Ebonics and sonic Cipher// All yuh bet// Punk you like Thamud// I stomp my feet Do you feel me 1427 Lawrence Y Braithwaite (aka Lord Patch) New Palestine/Fernwood/The Hood Victoria, BC bio: Author of the novels Wigger, Ratz Are Nice, and More at 7:30: Notes to New Palestine, Lawrence Ytzhak Braithwaite (aka Lord Patch) likes to dub his prose like Lee "Scratch" Perry and King Tubby chopped music & voice. Braithwaite has performed at Lollapalooza, The National Black Arts Festival, Prose Acts: Alternative Fiction Literary Conference with Dennis Cooper, Kevin Killian, Robert Glück, and Dodie Bellamy, and at the Kootney School of Writing. His fiction has appeared in Fourteen Hills, Role Call: A Generational Anthology of Social & Political Black Literature & Art, Bluesprints: Anthology of Black British Columbian Literature and Orature, Redzone: Victoria's Street People Zine, Fernwood's Sleeping Dragon, Velvet Mafia, Of the Flesh, Nocturnes, and Biting the Error. His words and voice may be heard on the Hurricane Angel electronic and spoken word project "luckily i was half cat," as well as his own solo works, including Clichy Sous Bois and Mindwalk 31: Driving to Baghdad. He lives in the Hood of New Palestine, Fernwood, British Columbia. Pull Your Ears Back is an excerpt from More at 7:30: Notes to New Palestine. http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a047braithwaite.php http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/mindwalkthirtyonerevb128.mp3 http://www.upstartradio.com/Playlist%20%26%20Links.html see also… "...it reminds me of the eulogy that Rabbi Yakov Perin gave for Baruch Goldstein, the Israeli settler who murdered 29 Palestinians in Hebron in 1994. He said, “One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail.” ....And I want to say that it's very deeply painful to me as a Palestinian that while Palestinians in Gaza are demonstrating, the families of prisoners are demonstrating to urge the resistance not to release the soldier until their prisoners and hostages held by Israel are released,... what all Israelis have to realize is that the age of colonialism has ended." -- Ali Abunimah -- "what all Israelis have to realize is that the age of colonialism has ended" http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2006/07/50483.php or http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/06/28/1421222 and "Our people are patient. They can arrest leaders, assassinate leaders, but our flag will not fall," Haniya said. -- " Hamas will not bow to Israeli force" http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2006/06/50467.php or http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/D81EA823-EE6E-43DC-A0B1-24FD25B26973.htm and The mother of one of the martyrs killed in the operation on the Israeli military post said that her son took part in this after seeing Israel's daily massacres against Palestinians. "Each young man watches what is going on and what is happening to his people. So when you can offer your people something that could raise their morale and preserve their dignity it's illogical that you don't act." -- "Palestinian Resistance captures Israeli soldier and shoot dead two others" The Palestinian left must highlight politically the value of this kind of resistance operation, and counter-pose it politically to terrorist operations directed at random Israeli civilians. The latter type of operation demoralizes the oppressed Palestinians, reinforces Zionism’s hold on the Israelis, and (in the words of the ANC’s Oliver Tambo) “distorts the nature” of the Palestinian struggle. -- Henry Lowi-- "Regarding the attack by Palestinian guerrillas" http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2006/06/50450.php and "Isn't it an instance of terrorism when a usurper government in extreme impudency turns Gaza into an inferno, makes a hell of bombs and bombardment, arrests a group of the representatives of the public and candidly acknowledges to assassination of the Palestinian leaders?" questioned Khatami in his second Friday prayers sermons at Tehran University campus. -- " Cleric condemns Zionists' atrocities in Gaza" ISRAELI ACTIONS STRONGLY CONDEMNED WORLDWIDE http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=en/node/999 "The White House talks about the Zionist violence as a self-defense while it does not recognize that the Palestinian people have the right to defend their freedom and independence," Sayyed Mohammad Hussein Fadlallah -- "Fadlallah: Israel 'challenges the entire Arab world'" http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=en/node/992 and srael kicked off the world cup by killing an entire family in Gaza, and it hasn't taken a break in its systematic bombardment and assassination of Palestinians since the beginning of the season....To turn against the Palestinian government on the grounds that it should make concessions, such as recognising Israel, in exchange for food is a dangerous trend. Europe has promised to lift the blockade if such concessions are forthcoming, but they haven't promised to secure reciprocal concessions from Israel. To reproach the Palestinian government, instead of standing with it in a unified front against the blockade, is tantamount to raising a white flag. To maintain that the Palestinians have to reach an agreement with Israel before the latter forges ahead with its own plans is to capitulate to those plans. -- Azmi Bishara -- "The poisoned chalice: Israel kicked off the world cup by killing an entire family in Gaza" http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2006/801/op2.htm or http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=en/node/989 and It is imperative that we DEMAND in no uncertain terms that the Canadian Government send the much-vaunted "DART" water generating teams to Gaza IMMEDIATELY. DART's job is to help people in time of disaster and this is one - although man-made - it is no less deserving of help. and This is a devastating interview with Mohammed Omer who lives in Rafah, Palestine and writes a blog called Rafah Today (http://www.rafahtoday.org). It details the brutality of the current assault on Gaza by the Israeli Occupation Army. http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=en/node&page=6 or http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=en/audio/download/961/file.mp3 http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=en/node&page=6 and "The oppressed nations should get united despite opposition of the bullying powers," said Ahmadinejad in an address to Friday prayers worshippers in Banjul's great mosque. http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=en/node/944 or http://www.irna.ir/en/news/view/line-24/0606306533201357.htm and The political beheading of the Palestinians is seen as one precondition for Israel unilaterally dictating its borders. The aim is to end any possibility of organized opposition to Olmert’s plan to annex 45 percent of the West Bank, including East Jerusalem....Only a unified struggle by Arab and Jewish workers on the basis of a socialist program offers a means of defeating the machinations of Washington and Tel Aviv and averting a catastrophe. All those in Israel seeking to oppose further bloodshed must break with Jewish nationalism and reject the Zionist state. The suffering of the Palestinian people and the impasse facing Israeli workers demands the forging of a revolutionary movement of the working class and the oppressed masses to end imperialist domination and capitalist exploitation,... -- Chris Marsden -- "Israeli assault on Gaza threatens wider Middle East conflagration" http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=en/node/924 or http://www.wsws.org/articles/2006/jun2006/isra-j30.shtml http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=en/node/984 http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=en/node/912 Weekly Summary of israeli War Crimes: the week ending 28 June 2006 http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/iwc29jun.mp3iss9gc.mp3 http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=en/node&page=11 Israeli Unilateralism Is Failing http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=en/node/898 Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez condemned Israel's assault saying Israel was emboldened to launch a new offensive against the Palestinians because of US backing. -- "Iran: Israel's actions should be viewed as government-sponsored terrorismÈ http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=en/node/938 http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a047braithwaite.php -- Stay Strong -"I testified/My mama cried/Black people died/When the other man lied" -- chuck d "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as) \ "We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit to a process of humiliation." --patrick o'neil \ "...we have the responsibility to make no deal with the oppressor" --harry belafonte \ "...in time, we will look back to this age with incredulity and amazement -- and victories like Hamas in Israel will be the *best* of our memories." -- mumia abu jamal -- "what state? what union?" "...these people generate wars in Asia and Africa,...These are the people who, in the last century, caused several devastating wars. In one world war alone, they killed over 60 million people.... In the near future, Allah willing, we will put you to trial in courts established by the peoples...."-- mahmoud ahmadinejad \ http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a006-braithwaite-01.php \ http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7255.php \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date \ http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/en_fins__clichy-sous_bois_amixquiet-_lordpatch_the_giver__.mp3 \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ \ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 08:34:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: **Last Call: Advertise in Boog City 35** MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable please forward --------------- Advertise in Boog City 35 *Deadline --This Sat., July 8-Ad and Ad Copy to Editor Email to reserve ad space ASAP We have upped our print run 12.5% and added Greenpoint, Brooklyn to =20 our distribution area, without increasing our advertising rates. We will now have 2,250 copies distributed and available free =20 throughout Manhattan's East Village, and Williamsburg and Greenpoint, =20 Brooklyn. ----- Take advantage of our indie discount ad rate. We are once again =20 offering a 50% discount on our 1/8-page ads, cutting them from $60 to =20 $30. (The discount rate also applies to larger ads.) Advertise your small press's newest publications, your own titles or =20 upcoming readings, or maybe salute an author you feel people should be =20 reading, with a few suggested books to buy. And musical acts, =20 advertise your new albums, indie labels your new releases. (We're also cool with donations, real cool.) Email editor@boogcity.com or call 212-842-BOOG(2664) for more information. thanks, David --=20 David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 08:17:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Questions for Putin? Comments: To: "& Views New-Poetry" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Vladimir Putin is, right now, taking questions on BBC World, and one can still submit questions to the BBC World website. My question is this, "When G. W. Bush looked into your eyes and saw your soul, what did you see in his?" My guess is that Putin is diplomatic enough not to answer. Hal "Those who cast the ballots decide nothing. Those who count the ballots decide everything." --Joseph Stalin Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@gmail.com halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 08:52:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: Questions for Putin? In-Reply-To: <34E07BDE-8B72-4CF5-A60A-18A1232FA2F1@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed When Bush was in Russia to observe and critique that country's "progress" towards (American/Bush -style) "democracy" he confronted Putin with its failures in Russia. Putin remarked this was interesting coming from a President not democratically elected, but chosen by a court. >From: Halvard Johnson >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Questions for Putin? >Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 08:17:30 -0500 > >Vladimir Putin is, right now, taking questions >on BBC World, and one can still submit questions >to the BBC World website. > >My question is this, "When G. W. Bush looked >into your eyes and saw your soul, what did you >see in his?" > >My guess is that Putin is diplomatic enough not >to answer. > >Hal > >"Those who cast the ballots decide nothing. > Those who count the ballots decide everything." > --Joseph Stalin > >Halvard Johnson >================ >halvard@gmail.com >halvard@earthlink.net >http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard >http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >http://www.hamiltonstone.org _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 10:09:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aryanil Mukherjee Subject: Re: Questions for Putin? In-Reply-To: A<34E07BDE-8B72-4CF5-A60A-18A1232FA2F1@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I SAW MYSELF is what he would like to answer if one could thought-read his lips -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 9:18 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Questions for Putin? Vladimir Putin is, right now, taking questions on BBC World, and one can still submit questions to the BBC World website. My question is this, "When G. W. Bush looked into your eyes and saw your soul, what did you see in his?" My guess is that Putin is diplomatic enough not to answer. Hal "Those who cast the ballots decide nothing. Those who count the ballots decide everything." --Joseph Stalin Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@gmail.com halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 12:30:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: observable dollar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Friends- As many of you know, I have been hosting a poetry series in St. Louis for the past three years: http://observable.org/readings/ In fact, some of you have read in the series. Well here's the new deal. It shouldn't be much of a test of your generosity--AND I'll put up a link to your website. http://observable.org/dollar/ That is all. Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 11:42:15 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Joe Keppler opening in Seattle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit FORM SPACE LIGHT GALLERY will be exhibiting some of Joe Keppler's steel sculptures and opening night is this Friday, July 7th, from 6 to 9. Photographic works by Matthew G. Monroe and paintings by Norma Currin will also be shown. The exhibition will run through August 2006. FORM SPACE LIGHT GALLERY is at 619 N 35th Street, Suite 109, Seattle. The gallery is tucked in a somewhat reclusive area below the Starbucks and behind the PCC parking garage in central Fremont. ja ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 16:56:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Bredie Subject: Sarah Manguso & Paul Violi @ McNally Robinson Books NYC, this Monday, July 10, 7PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Poetics People, July is upon us with all of its revolutionary milestones: the 4th, the 14th, and now the 10th. This MONDAY [note, MONDAY, not Wednesday] July 10th at 7pm, Vacation House will be featuring two immensely talented poets who's work far outshines gaudy multi-million dollar fireworks displays. The reading is, as per usual, at McNally Robinson Books and will probably be the only event you attend in the next two weeks which you can enjoy without the aid of a half raw hamburger. SARAH MANGUSO is the author of two poetry collections, *Siste Viator* and *The Captain Lands in Paradise.* Her first story collection, *Hard to Admit and Harder to Escape,* is forthcoming from McSweeney's Books in 2007. She teaches at the Pratt Institute and lives in Brooklyn. PAUL VIOLI's eleventh book of poems, *Overnight*, will be published this winter. He is the recipient of the Zabel Award from the American Academy of Arts and Letters and numerous other poetry awards. He teaches at Columbia and in the MFA program at New School. Hope to see you there N vacationhouse.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 14:19:20 -0700 Reply-To: ishaq1824@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: sidebrow 7 . 0 3 : PULL YOUR EARS BACK MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT sidebrow 7 . 0 3 : PULL YOUR EARS BACK H8’s daddy had heart stoppage one day when he got into a shout off with a worker who had to take the loser cruiser cuz their car was in the shop. That was the same worker who had cut him off just after last xmas. He wanted to know where his star was. He wanted to let the mofo know that he had worked all his life. That he had pulled his welly fam through food banks at the St Vince de Paul and family shelters and worked at pizza joints and garages since he was 16… dealt with feggit cokeheads and wolves. He saw his lil cousin walk around in phat gear and a ball cap with a big “P” on it and a bitch by his side. He hear about him later got setup inna apt by two crackers who claimed to be scrappin over the betty and they clipt him in the head and lil cuz never woke up from a premamant daydream, woh.... full except: Pull Your Ears Back [build: post-hole] http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a047braithwaite.php http://www.sidebrow.net/index.html bio: Author of the novels Wigger, Ratz Are Nice, and More at 7:30: Notes to New Palestine, Lawrence Ytzhak Braithwaite (aka Lord Patch) likes to dub his prose like Lee "Scratch" Perry and King Tubby chopped music & voice. Braithwaite has performed at Lollapalooza, The National Black Arts Festival, Prose Acts: Alternative Fiction Literary Conference with Dennis Cooper, Kevin Killian, Robert Glück, and Dodie Bellamy, and at the Kootney School of Writing. His fiction has appeared in Fourteen Hills, Role Call: A Generational Anthology of Social & Political Black Literature & Art, Bluesprints: Anthology of Black British Columbian Literature and Orature, Redzone: Victoria's Street People Zine, Fernwood's Sleeping Dragon, Velvet Mafia, Of the Flesh, Nocturnes, and Biting the Error. His words and voice may be heard on the Hurricane Angel electronic and spoken word project "luckily i was half cat," as well as his own solo works, including Clichy Sous Bois and Mindwalk 31: Driving to Baghdad. He lives in the Hood of New Palestine, Fernwood, British Columbia. Pull Your Ears Back is an excerpt from More at 7:30: Notes to New Palestine. see also: Olivet (H.A.T.s in the Square) lord patch vs Jay FN Cee (aka Hurrricane Angel): audio: MP3 at 10.4 mebibytes http://cleveland.indymedia.org/uploads/2006/07/olivet___h.a.t.s_in_the_square___loud_ruffa1b.mp3 http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/olivet___h.a.t.s_in_the_square___loud_ruffa1.mp3 (download torrent) http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/torrents/olivet___h.a.t.s_in_the_square___loud_ruffa1.mp3.torrent http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/mindwalkthirtyonerevb128.mp3 http://www.upstartradio.com/Playlist%20%26%20Links.html -- Stay Strong -"I testified/My mama cried/Black people died/When the other man lied" -- chuck d "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as) \ "We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit to a process of humiliation." --patrick o'neil \ "...we have the responsibility to make no deal with the oppressor" --harry belafonte \ "...in time, we will look back to this age with incredulity and amazement -- and victories like Hamas in Israel will be the *best* of our memories." -- mumia abu jamal -- "what state? what union?" "...these people generate wars in Asia and Africa,...These are the people who, in the last century, caused several devastating wars. In one world war alone, they killed over 60 million people.... In the near future, Allah willing, we will put you to trial in courts established by the peoples...."-- mahmoud ahmadinejad \ http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a006-braithwaite-01.php \ http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7255.php \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date \ http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/en_fins__clichy-sous_bois_amixquiet-_lordpatch_the_giver__.mp3 \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ \ audio: MP3 at 10.4 mebibytes http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/olivet___h.a.t.s_in_the_square___loud_ruffa1.mp3 (download torrent) http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/torrents/olivet___h.a.t.s_in_the_square___loud_ruffa1.mp3.torrent bio: Author of the novels Wigger, Ratz Are Nice, and More at 7:30: Notes to New Palestine, Lawrence Ytzhak Braithwaite (aka Lord Patch) likes to dub his prose like Lee "Scratch" Perry and King Tubby chopped music & voice. Braithwaite has performed at Lollapalooza, The National Black Arts Festival, Prose Acts: Alternative Fiction Literary Conference with Dennis Cooper, Kevin Killian, Robert Glück, and Dodie Bellamy, and at the Kootney School of Writing. His fiction has appeared in Fourteen Hills, Role Call: A Generational Anthology of Social & Political Black Literature & Art, Bluesprints: Anthology of Black British Columbian Literature and Orature, Redzone: Victoria's Street People Zine, Fernwood's Sleeping Dragon, Velvet Mafia, Of the Flesh, Nocturnes, and Biting the Error. His words and voice may be heard on the Hurricane Angel electronic and spoken word project "luckily i was half cat," as well as his own solo works, including Clichy Sous Bois and Mindwalk 31: Driving to Baghdad. He lives in the Hood of New Palestine, Fernwood, British Columbia. Pull Your Ears Back is an excerpt from More at 7:30: Notes to New Palestine. http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a047braithwaite.php http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/mindwalkthirtyonerevb128.mp3 http://www.upstartradio.com/Playlist%20%26%20Links.html see also… "...it reminds me of the eulogy that Rabbi Yakov Perin gave for Baruch Goldstein, the Israeli settler who murdered 29 Palestinians in Hebron in 1994. He said, “One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail.” ....And I want to say that it's very deeply painful to me as a Palestinian that while Palestinians in Gaza are demonstrating, the families of prisoners are demonstrating to urge the resistance not to release the soldier until their prisoners and hostages held by Israel are released,... what all Israelis have to realize is that the age of colonialism has ended." -- Ali Abunimah -- "what all Israelis have to realize is that the age of colonialism has ended" http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2006/07/50483.php or http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/06/28/1421222 and "Our people are patient. They can arrest leaders, assassinate leaders, but our flag will not fall," Haniya said. -- " Hamas will not bow to Israeli force" http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2006/06/50467.php or http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/D81EA823-EE6E-43DC-A0B1-24FD25B26973.htm and The mother of one of the martyrs killed in the operation on the Israeli military post said that her son took part in this after seeing Israel's daily massacres against Palestinians. "Each young man watches what is going on and what is happening to his people. So when you can offer your people something that could raise their morale and preserve their dignity it's illogical that you don't act." -- "Palestinian Resistance captures Israeli soldier and shoot dead two others" The Palestinian left must highlight politically the value of this kind of resistance operation, and counter-pose it politically to terrorist operations directed at random Israeli civilians. The latter type of operation demoralizes the oppressed Palestinians, reinforces Zionism’s hold on the Israelis, and (in the words of the ANC’s Oliver Tambo) “distorts the nature” of the Palestinian struggle. -- Henry Lowi-- "Regarding the attack by Palestinian guerrillas" http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2006/06/50450.php and "Isn't it an instance of terrorism when a usurper government in extreme impudency turns Gaza into an inferno, makes a hell of bombs and bombardment, arrests a group of the representatives of the public and candidly acknowledges to assassination of the Palestinian leaders?" questioned Khatami in his second Friday prayers sermons at Tehran University campus. -- " Cleric condemns Zionists' atrocities in Gaza" ISRAELI ACTIONS STRONGLY CONDEMNED WORLDWIDE http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=en/node/999 "The White House talks about the Zionist violence as a self-defense while it does not recognize that the Palestinian people have the right to defend their freedom and independence," Sayyed Mohammad Hussein Fadlallah -- "Fadlallah: Israel 'challenges the entire Arab world'" http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=en/node/992 and srael kicked off the world cup by killing an entire family in Gaza, and it hasn't taken a break in its systematic bombardment and assassination of Palestinians since the beginning of the season....To turn against the Palestinian government on the grounds that it should make concessions, such as recognising Israel, in exchange for food is a dangerous trend. Europe has promised to lift the blockade if such concessions are forthcoming, but they haven't promised to secure reciprocal concessions from Israel. To reproach the Palestinian government, instead of standing with it in a unified front against the blockade, is tantamount to raising a white flag. To maintain that the Palestinians have to reach an agreement with Israel before the latter forges ahead with its own plans is to capitulate to those plans. -- Azmi Bishara -- "The poisoned chalice: Israel kicked off the world cup by killing an entire family in Gaza" http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2006/801/op2.htm or http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=en/node/989 and It is imperative that we DEMAND in no uncertain terms that the Canadian Government send the much-vaunted "DART" water generating teams to Gaza IMMEDIATELY. DART's job is to help people in time of disaster and this is one - although man-made - it is no less deserving of help. and This is a devastating interview with Mohammed Omer who lives in Rafah, Palestine and writes a blog called Rafah Today (http://www.rafahtoday.org). It details the brutality of the current assault on Gaza by the Israeli Occupation Army. http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=en/node&page=6 or http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=en/audio/download/961/file.mp3 http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=en/node&page=6 and "The oppressed nations should get united despite opposition of the bullying powers," said Ahmadinejad in an address to Friday prayers worshippers in Banjul's great mosque. http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=en/node/944 or http://www.irna.ir/en/news/view/line-24/0606306533201357.htm and The political beheading of the Palestinians is seen as one precondition for Israel unilaterally dictating its borders. The aim is to end any possibility of organized opposition to Olmert’s plan to annex 45 percent of the West Bank, including East Jerusalem....Only a unified struggle by Arab and Jewish workers on the basis of a socialist program offers a means of defeating the machinations of Washington and Tel Aviv and averting a catastrophe. All those in Israel seeking to oppose further bloodshed must break with Jewish nationalism and reject the Zionist state. The suffering of the Palestinian people and the impasse facing Israeli workers demands the forging of a revolutionary movement of the working class and the oppressed masses to end imperialist domination and capitalist exploitation,... -- Chris Marsden -- "Israeli assault on Gaza threatens wider Middle East conflagration" http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=en/node/924 or http://www.wsws.org/articles/2006/jun2006/isra-j30.shtml http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=en/node/984 http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=en/node/912 Weekly Summary of israeli War Crimes: the week ending 28 June 2006 http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/iwc29jun.mp3iss9gc.mp3 http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=en/node&page=11 Israeli Unilateralism Is Failing http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=en/node/898 Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez condemned Israel's assault saying Israel was emboldened to launch a new offensive against the Palestinians because of US backing. -- "Iran: Israel's actions should be viewed as government-sponsored terrorismÈ http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=en/node/938 http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a047braithwaite.php -- Stay Strong -"I testified/My mama cried/Black people died/When the other man lied" -- chuck d "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as) \ "We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit to a process of humiliation." --patrick o'neil \ "...we have the responsibility to make no deal with the oppressor" --harry belafonte \ "...in time, we will look back to this age with incredulity and amazement -- and victories like Hamas in Israel will be the *best* of our memories." -- mumia abu jamal -- "what state? what union?" "...these people generate wars in Asia and Africa,...These are the people who, in the last century, caused several devastating wars. In one world war alone, they killed over 60 million people.... In the near future, Allah willing, we will put you to trial in courts established by the peoples...."-- mahmoud ahmadinejad \ http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a006-braithwaite-01.php \ http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7255.php \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date \ http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/en_fins__clichy-sous_bois_amixquiet-_lordpatch_the_giver__.mp3 \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ \ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 08:27:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: not horsing around MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Again--straight up, I need all of you! http://observable.org/dollar/ Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 09:38:01 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: susan maurer Subject: Re: feminists with low cut blouses In-Reply-To: <2dd.84dd382.31cac8cf@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed hm was the captain of industry in marfa? i am sufferung severe marfa withdrawak symptoms. isnt that a fun name for the reading larissa shmaillo thouhgt it up susan maurer toambogle2@aol.com >From: AMBogle2@AOL.COM >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: feminists with low cut blouses >Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 12:07:43 EDT > >In a message dated 6/21/06 8:48:59 AM Central Daylight Time, >sumaurer@HOTMAIL.COM writes: > > > > marfa and austin > >W'assup with Marfa? (That's pussy backwards in Texas.) > >The reason I ask: I was the sixth of seven editors, the last only a man, >who >worked for J. Poindexter after my graduation in '94 from U of Houston cwp >on >an account of a ranch he had renovated there. The account was Mr. >Poindexter's own, a fascinating and already-well-written tale about llamas >and hand-cut >adobe. I did the editing work without ever visiting the ranch. The rooms >in >the b & b went for $400 per night. He met me sometimes in the kitchen of >my >little garage apartment, with the full light coming in on four sides, to go >over >the editing changes; sometimes in his palatial condominium just outside the >610 Loop; and sometimes in his office suite in a downtown skyscraper. The >brass >plaque outside the suite door read J. B. Poindexter, Corporate Raider. I >was >acting fanatical about use of the semi-colon, probably due to what C. >Michael >Curtis had written about the semi-colon, and C. Michael Curtis had liked >some >of my short stories in the 1980s. My phone rang at 8 a.m., and it would be >Mr. Poindexter calling about a particular semi-colon in the 120-page >document >-- I had made liberal, but correct, use of them throughout the text, like >sprinkling it with a minced bunch of Cilantro. How bizarre to hear a >message about >semi-colons from such a prosperous and busy man first thing in the morning; >I >had a new boyfriend, myself, and not one who'd pondered the use of the >semi-colon much; he thought in songs himself. I earned $30 per hour for >doing that >good work. > >Ann Bogle _________________________________________________________________ On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 11:16:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cheryl Pallant Subject: Lynne Tillman email MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Does anyone have Lynne Tillman's email address? Back channel please. Cheryl Pallant _______________ www.cherylpallant.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 08:30:24 -0700 Reply-To: ishaq1824@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: version: Olivet (H.A.T.s in the Square) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/07/10440.php Olivet (H.A.T.s in the Square) http://cleveland.indymedia.org/uploads/2006/07/olivet___h.a.t.s_in_the_square___loud_ruffa1b.mp3 "...it reminds me of the eulogy that Rabbi Yakov Perin gave for Baruch Goldstein, the Israeli settler who murdered 29 Palestinians in Hebron in 1994. He said, "One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail." ....I want to say that it's very deeply painful to me as a Palestinian that while Palestinians in Gaza are demonstrating,...to urge the resistance not to release the soldier until their prisoners and hostages held by Israel are released,... what all Israelis have to realize is that the age of colonialism has ended." -- Ali Abunimah audio: MP3 at 10.4 mebibytes http://cleveland.indymedia.org/uploads/2006/07/olivet___h.a.t.s_in_the_square___loud_ruffa1b.mp3 (download torrent) http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/torrents/olivet___h.a.t.s_in_the_square___loud_ruffa1.mp3.torrent "Israeli aggression was also reported in the occupied West Bank on Thursday where Israeli occupation troops carrying out an arrest raid in the town of Jenin killed one Palestinian and wounded at least five in an hours-long gunbattle....After touring Gaza's main hospital on Thursday evening, Palestinian Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh of Hamas called for international intervention to stop the Israeli offensive, which he called a "crime against humanity". -- al manar tv news -- "Palestinians receive Israeli brutal bombardments with their bare flesh amid world silence" http://www.almanar.com.lb/story.aspx?Language=en&DSNO=652544 Olivet (H.A.T.s in the Square) by larence ytzhak braithwaite (aka Lord Patch) Music: Jay FN Cee (aka Hurrricane Angel) I stomp my feet and you feel my kai I stomp my feet and you feel my kai I stomp my feet and you feel my kai I stomp my feet and you feel my kai Mi kai mi smash H.A.T.s in the Square Rollin up trousers Baggies And peaches Do you dare Gasaraki Iraqis bombin back Tragedy With the aid of Dr Zin Protect me from the jinn I stomp my feet and you feel my kai Banana bikes and pushers Pushin children Into mental institutions Come Come My selectah Mix for me something Propoganda Isa As Our commander Mu'mi/neen Throwin signifiers Elligtonian Shines and spear chucker Nah fix me Mix me Something sweet woht will destroy ameriKKKa// do you? do you? do you? I stomp my feet and you feel my kai I stomp my feet do you feel my kai? I stomp my feet do you feel my kai ? I stomp my feet and you feel my kai ¡Ya! Basta Yuh bastards Take one back to your masters Big phat warders Rapist called soldiers Insh'allah I'll show the real uses of Coxn's crossfader// ¡Ya! Sabahah... He said: Always see everything my brutha (re: Ghost Dog to Rza) Suckaz// They wanna make my people unreal <¡Ya!> over dub Watch my tantric circles Armless standard barers Visualz over dub Come the bringer of water I'll bet your house Ain't built as strong as a Shi'i Blaring blasphemy Chattin rubbish Our life lost in the bush Huntin with Jeffery Oil and thievery Did he liked to roll Or just the download Of my selectahz lowlow Ayo, "Let's go get ivy" Scratchin downtempo stereo and typin Colin Ferguson/tranformin Into B-boy frustration I stomp my feet and you feel my kai It's jus the same ol show Y'Kno I stomp my feet and you feel my kai I stomp my feet and you feel my kai It's jus the same ol show I stomp my feet do you feel my kai? I stomp my feet and you feel my kai I stomp my feet and you feel my kai // over dub Read my flow real slow I flexable Like junkies on lowlows You cyan catch me I'm addicted To dream scapes seen? Let the drummer get Ital// Jays Samples real clean Physical dub plates Pumpin bikes A beats break a/ Mean smiles Wide as Big Youth// Flex his truth Yuh cayn get Next to My argy bargy Fassy Snears Come the Mahdi He'll ride fear Yuh hater ass toy Don't stand in my square Angered angels Yell Surround my proximity We duckin Jakes Now ain't that wicked Mics and bikes Never break For snakes Ah for heavensake What's the price Of these exchange rapes Seize him by his forelocks We shall call the guards of hell I stomp my feet and you feel my kai I stomp my feet and you feel my kai Let him call upon his gang Kiss me kneck Watch them step Heavy heavy Prophets on Olivets Enemy of the republic Spits Ebonics and sonic Cipher// All yuh bet// Punk you like Thamud// I stomp my feet Do you feel me 1427 Lawrence Y Braithwaite (aka Lord Patch) New Palestine/Fernwood/The Hood Victoria, BC Pull Your Ears Back is an excerpt from More at 7:30: Notes to New Palestine. http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a047braithwaite.php http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/mindwalkthirtyonerevb128.mp3 http://www.upstartradio.com/Playlist%20%26%20Links.html -- Stay Strong -"I testified/My mama cried/Black people died/When the other man lied" -- chuck d "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as) \ "We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit to a process of humiliation." --patrick o'neil \ "...we have the responsibility to make no deal with the oppressor" --harry belafonte \ "...in time, we will look back to this age with incredulity and amazement -- and victories like Hamas in Israel will be the *best* of our memories." -- mumia abu jamal -- "what state? what union?" "...these people generate wars in Asia and Africa,...These are the people who, in the last century, caused several devastating wars. In one world war alone, they killed over 60 million people.... In the near future, Allah willing, we will put you to trial in courts established by the peoples...."-- mahmoud ahmadinejad \ http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a006-braithwaite-01.php \ http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7255.php \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date \ http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/en_fins__clichy-sous_bois_amixquiet-_lordpatch_the_giver__.mp3 \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ \ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 12:10:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: sad news MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain The New York Supreme Court in Queens has sentenced Gil Scott Heron to an additional 2-4 years in jail after he violated his previous plea agreement by leaving the drug treatment center where he had undertaken a program in lieu of imprisonment on earlier charges. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 09:17:45 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jordan Stempleman Subject: Re: sad news Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Does anyone know what response the court gave to Heron's claim that the treatment facility was withholding his medication for HIV? From: ALDON L NIELSEN Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: sad news Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 12:10:18 -0400 >The New York Supreme Court in Queens has sentenced Gil Scott Heron to an >additional 2-4 years in jail after he violated his previous plea agreement >by >leaving the drug treatment center where he had undertaken a program in lieu >of >imprisonment on earlier charges. > > ><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > --Emily Dickinson > >Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > >Aldon L. Nielsen >Kelly Professor of American Literature >The Pennsylvania State University >116 Burrowes >University Park, PA 16802-6200 > >(814) 865-0091 _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 12:50:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: NYC/This Saturday/Garden Party with Olive Juice Music and Boog City Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable greetings, a reminder about the debut of this new series tomorrow. as ever, david p.s. one more event missive forthcoming. apologies for doubling up today. ---------------- Garden Party with Olive Juice Music and Boog City Sat. July 8, 2:00 p.m., free a summer series, in the Suffolk Street Community Garden Suffolk St., bet. Houston & Stanton sts. NYC readings from=20 Joanna Fuhrman and Tanya Larkin music from=20 Lisa Lilund and Major Matt Mason USA Curated and with introductions by Boog City editor and publisher David Kirschenbaum and Olive Juice Music head Matt Roth --------- **Boog City is a New York City-based small press now in its 15th year and East Village community newspaper of the same name. It has also published 35 volumes of poetry and various magazines, featuring work by Allen Ginsberg and Lawrence Ferlinghetti among others, and theme issues on baseball, women=B9s writing, and Louisville, KY. It hosts and curates two regular performance series--d.a. levy lives: celebrating the renegade press, where each month a non-NYC small press and its writers and a musical act of their choosing is hosted at Chelsea's ACA Galleries; and Classic Albums Live, where 5-13 local musical acts perform a classic album live at venues including The Bowery Poetry Club, CBGB's, and The Knitting Factory. Past albums have included Elvis Costello, My Aim is True; Nirvana, Nevermind; an= d Liz Phair, Exile in Guyville. **Olive Juice Music is a D.I.Y. label, studio, and mail-order distributor based in New York City and interested in helping people who are in the developmental stages of trying to do something with their art. Olive Juice Music is not a traditional record label. The artists associated with Olive Juice take an active part in how their music is produced, financed, and marketed. They in turn receive more of the profits gained from the sales of their records directly, which is how it should be. The strength of Olive Juice relies upon the active participation of its members to share resource= s and help promote a communal spirit among everyone involved as well as claiming responsibility for taking their art to wherever they would like it to go. **Joanna Fuhrman is the author of three collections of poetry published by Hanging Loose Press, Freud in Brooklyn (2000), Ugh Ugh Ocean (2003), and Moraine (2006). Her last book was described in Publishers Weekly as an "exciting mishmash of insights, associations, charms, jokes and biting social commentary, well positioned somewhere in the nifty triangle formed b= y Frank O'Hara, Ted Berrigan and the Shins." Her poems written with others ar= e forthcoming in Saints of Hysteria: Fifty Years of Collaborative Poetry (Sof= t Skull Press). She teaches poetry in the public schools. **Tanya Larkin is poet and fiction writer living in Somerville, Mass. She teaches English at the New England Institute of Art. She is a 2004 recipien= t of a Massachusetts Cultural Council Grant. Her most recent poems have appeared in The Hat, Xantippe, and The Zoland Press Poetry Anthology. **Lisa Li-Lund hails from Paris, France and writes songs on piano and guitar. Her record "Lisa Li-Lund Ran away" was just released on Smoking Gun Records (UK).=20 **Major Matt Mason USA has been making music since the late =B980s. In his father's basement in Shawnee, Kansas (a suburb of Kansas City) Matt would amuse his dog Friskie by lip-synching to Kiss records and hammering out ditties about the threat of nuclear war and peer pressure on a $30 Harmony guitar. While attending the University of Kansas, Matt got his first taste of a thriving underground music scene playing guitar for local punk bands with names like Magic Nose and Dracomagnet that drew from influences including the Butthole Surfers and Jesus Lizard. In the early =B990s, Matt localized a five-year long distance relationship an= d moved to New York City where he found a home in the now infamous East Village Antifolk Community. The weekly Antihoots at the Sidewalk Cafe provided Matt with a chance to vent about the high cost of living in New York and the rapid deterioration of the relationship he just moved across the country for. After a brief stint as a record store clerk, he landed a job as an apprentice at a soho based commercial sound facility. For the nex= t five years he would spend his days in a state-of-the-art digital audio facility servicing high profile advertising clients, while his nights were spent plucking out edgy lo-fi acoustic love songs into a boombox in a mouse= - infested lower east side apartment. Flash forward 5 years. Major Matt has evolved from the boombox to a catalog of 4 full-length albums filled with influences that range from Bob Dylan to Sonic Youth. He has established Olive Juice Music--a fully functional recording studio/independent record label/online distribution center that h= e operates out of his NYC apartment with bandmate/significant other Nan Turne= r and cat Gummo (who takes care of the mice). Matt is also a member of the bands Schwervon! and Kansas State Flower. The DIY spirit is a big part of Matt's art and lifestyle as he continues to carve out a niche for truly modern American Folk music. =8B=8B=8B=8B=8B=8B Directions: F to Second Ave. =20 http://olivejuicemusic.com/ http://www.unpleasanteventschedule.com/JoannaFuhrman.htm http://www.epoetry.org/issues/issue7/text/cnotes/tl.htm http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=3Duser.viewprofile&friendid=3D3= 0 256093 http://olivejuicemusic.com/majormattmasonusa.html Next event in series, Sat. Aug. 12 with readings from Laura Elrick and Rodrigo Toscano and music TBA =8B=20 David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 12:52:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Boog City presents The Wandering Hermit Review and Paul Rubenstein Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable please forward ---------------- Boog City presents =20 d.a. levy lives: celebrating the renegade press =20 The Wandering Hermit Review (Buffalo, NY) Tues. July 11, 6:00 p.m., free ACA Galleries 529 W.20th St., 5th Flr. NYC =20 Event will be hosted by Wandering Hermit Review editor Steve Potter Featuring readings from Joel Allegretti Steve Dalachinsky Heller Levinson Dante Micheaux Rodrigo Toscano With music from Paul Rubenstein There will be wine, cheese, and fruit, too. =20 Curated and with an introduction by Boog City editor David Kirschenbaum =8B=8B=8B=8B=8B- *About The Wandering Hermit Review* The Wandering Hermit Review is a digest size, perfect-bound journal of 150-200 pages that comes out annually. In the spirit of d. a. levy, the Hermit is a 100% d.i.y. mag printed via home computer/laser printer and bound by hand in the editor's kitchen using plywood and spring clamps. We'r= e happy to report that people often don't believe that when they first see th= e mag which looks pretty slick, if we do say so ourselves. The Wandering Hermit features an eclectic blend of writing and visual art ranging from th= e wildly experimental to the fairly traditional. We love finding common elements in the work of writers coming from radically different aesthetic backgrounds and enjoy placing them side-by-side. *Performer Bios* **Joel Allegretti=B9s first collection of poems, The Plague Psalms, was published in 2000 by The Poet's Press and is now in its third edition. His work has appeared in Rattapallax, Anglican Theological Review, and Manhatta= n Literary Review, among other publications. He is a Pushcart Prize nominee; was a quarter-finalist in the 2002 Lyric Recovery Festival; and one of thre= e writers selected to participate in the Visible Word, a collaboration of literary and visual artists sponsored by the DeBaun Center of the Performin= g Arts, Stevens Institute of Technology. **Steve Dalachinsky=B9s poems have appeared in journals and anthologies such as Big Bridge, Milk, Evergreen Review, Alpha Beat Soup, Xtant, NY Arts Magazine, The Lost and Found Times, and the Outlaw Bible of American Poetry= . He has written liner notes for the CDs from Anthony Braxton, James "Blood" Ulmer, Matthew Shipp, and Roscoe Mitchell, among many others. His 1999 CD, Incomplete Direction, a collection of his poetry read in collaboration with various musicians, including William Parker, Daniel Carter, Sabir Mateen, Susie Ibarra, Thurston Moore (SonicYouth), and Vernon Reid (Living Colour), has garnered much praise. Recent publications include St. Lucie (King of Mice Press, 2005), Are We Not MEN and Fake Book (two books of collage from Page Press, 2005), Dream Book (Avantcular Press, 2005), and The Final Nite (complete notes from a Charles Gayle Notebook (Ugly Duckling Presse, 2005). **Heller Levinson=B9s poems have appeared in numerous magazines including Sulfur, Hunger, Fire (UK), Edgz, Small Pond, Nexus, Unarmed, Chiron Review, Colorado Review, Bakunin, Monkey Puzzle, and The Great American Poetry Show= . ToxiCity A (Howling Dog Press) is his new collection of poems. **Dante Micheaux is an emerging poet whose work has appeared in Warpland: A Journal of Black Literature and Ideas and Cave Canem VIII. He has been a guest poet of the Cathedral Church of Saint John the Divine, the Publishing Triangle, and City X-Posed. In 2002, he received a prize in poetry from the Vera List Center for Art & Politics. He is a member of the John Donne/Georg= e Herbert Poetry Society. He resides in New York City. **Paul Rubenstein is a composer and multi-instrumental musician who invents and builds most of the instruments he plays. Rubenstein has composed scores for numerous films, including The Show, directed by Cruz Angeles; and Montessori Swordfight, Sunday Afternoon, and Moose Mountain. He has performed at venues such as Tonic, the Knitting Factory, The Queens Art Museum, The American Museum of Natural History, The Seattle Art Museum, The Seattle Asian Art Museum, The Seattle Folklife Festival, The Arts Edge Festival, and On the Boards. He has collaborated with many spoken word artists, including Rick Moody (author of the Ice Storm and Garden State), Jeet Thayil (English), Sarita Choudhury (book-on-tape version of Chitra Divakaruni's Mistress of Spices), Shebana Coelho (Blyton in Bombay BBC4 radio show), Anne Fiero, Steve Potter= , Ace Moore, and Clarice Keegan. He has also worked with dancers, including Melody Liu, Hassan Christopher, Mew Chang-Tsing, and Yoko Murao. **Rodrigo Toscano is the author of To Leveling Swerve (Krupskaya Books, 2004), Platform (Atelos, 2003), The Disparities (Green Integer, 2002), and Partisans (O Books, 1999). His work has recently appeared in Best American Poetry (Scribners, 2004) and War and Peace (O Books, 2004). His poetry has been translated into French, German, Spanish, Portuguese, and Italian. Toscano is originally from San Diego and San Francisco California. He lives in New York City. =20 =8B=8B=8B=8B=8B=8B Directions: C/E to 23rd St., 1/9 to 18th St. Venue is bet. 10th and 11th avenues =20 http://www.wanderinghermit.com/ http://www.ubertar.com/ Next event, Tues. July 25, Narrow House Recordings (Baltimore, Maryland) =8B=20 David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 14:59:27 -0400 Reply-To: tyrone williams Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tyrone williams Subject: Re: sad news Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That is sad news...and appears to underline your previous post re his physical/psychological condition at present... tyrone -----Original Message----- >From: ALDON L NIELSEN >Sent: Jul 7, 2006 12:10 PM >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: sad news > >The New York Supreme Court in Queens has sentenced Gil Scott Heron to an >additional 2-4 years in jail after he violated his previous plea agreement by >leaving the drug treatment center where he had undertaken a program in lieu of >imprisonment on earlier charges. > > ><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > --Emily Dickinson > >Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > >Aldon L. Nielsen >Kelly Professor of American Literature >The Pennsylvania State University >116 Burrowes >University Park, PA 16802-6200 > >(814) 865-0091 Tyrone Williams ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 14:17:28 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: justin sirois Subject: narrow house / PEEK review super reading / show tomorrow MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit narrow house / PEEK review super reading / show / benefit (attached PDF for personal distribution Saturday July 8th 8pm Poem people:: Be Blank / John Bennett / K.S. Ernst / Scott Helmes THE BE BLANK CONSORT With John M. Bennett, K. S. Ernst, Scott Helmes, and Special Guests, has performed in Miami, Boston, Minneapolis, Baltimore, Columbus, New York, and other venues and has released a CD: "Sound Mess" Rupert Wondolowski is seven feet tall. Five thousand pounds of hog. He wants to be a helicopter. Also, he is the editor of Shattered Wig Review, established in 1988, and emcee/coordinator of Shattered Wig Night at the 14 Karat Cabaret; author of The Whispering of Ice Cubes, Humans Go Outside To Hurt You and a few others. Chris Toll has been writing for more than 40 years (which is a miracle since he's only 17!!). His new book from Open 24 Hours is called Love Everyone. He is also working on a second new book, Be Light, which will be a double book with Recreational Vehicle by Buck Downs. His poems regularly appear in the Shattered Wig Review and Fell Swoop. Aside from reading and writing poems, Miriam Stewart currently spends her time working as a tutor and childbirth coach and volunteering in a pediatric clinic. She just kicked the ass of the medical school admissions exam and is pioneering a new study method based almost entirely on the composition of poems. Mitchell Feldstein Drummer for Lungfish / His book Teen Cardinal is available from Shattered wig. Knowing better and a bland impersonator, Baltimore Mister Sister studied at universilump and lives as an economic bottom-feeder. He has some things in common with Ian Nagoski, of the True Vine record shop in Hampden. JUStin!KatKO is the editor of Plantarchy, a journal of poetry and poetics featuring work by American, British and Canadian writers (www.plantarchy.us). He is working with Keith Tuma, cris cheek and Karen Shimizu to build Meshworks: the Miami University Archive of Writing in Performance (www.oxfordmagazine.org/meshworks), and with Camille PB on couponscoupons@blogspot.com. Ric Royer is a writer and performer currently located in Baltimore where he lectures regularly for the Performance Thanatology Research Society, a group of performers and scholars dedicated to the advancement of higher histrionics since 1999. He has been published in several small-press publications including Blazevox, Pataphysica, Lost and Found Times and Shattered Wig Review. Many of his words and works can be found on his website, www.ricroyer.com. Creep. M. Magnus has a volume of poetry published, Little Puddles (New Orleans, 1993), and has had plays and theatrical pieces performed in a variety of contexts both in New Orleans and in the D.C. area. He is the founder and current festival coordinator of the upcoming Yockadot! Poetics Theatre Festival (www.yptfest.org), set to have its inaugural run April 2007 in Alexandria, Virginia. A native of Jones County, Miss., Buck Downs lives and works in Washington DC. Sometimes he can be seen in stone-washed overalls, but only if you're lucky. (Eds.) Bands:: Hotel Brotherhood (Chicago / Midwest inspired folk-rock Among Wolves (Baltimore / beautiful indie alt-country The Talking Head Club 203 Davis Street Baltimore MD . . . . . . . http://www.narrowhouserecordings.com/ a record label primarily interested in contemporary writing, poetics and the political __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 00:41:49 -0400 Reply-To: queyras@rutgers.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: sina queyras Subject: philly sublet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, Sorry for the intrusion, but I have a housing request. A friend is looking for a sublet in Philly, preferrably either in Center City or West Philly, from August 15th until September 10th or so. If anyone knows of a situation please backchannel. Best, Sina Queyras ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 00:34:10 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: narrow house / PEEK review super reading / show tomorrow MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit wow sounds great ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 22:40:52 -0700 Reply-To: ishaq1824@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: Mindwalk 42: Henry, Ann Coulter & the FCC: Henry Rollins, Public Enemy, Lord Patch & Tolan McNeil, Public Enemy MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Mindwalk 42: Henry, Ann Coulter & the FCC http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/mindwalk_20060617.mp3 http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=en/node/1080 Summary: Explicit language in this episode. Hard to avoid when dealing with Henry Rollins. A 10 year old girl from Jenin Refugee Camp, Palestine sings her song. "Children and Resistance" by Seth Porcello / IMEMC Credits: Credits: Henry Rollins, Ainaley Burrows, Mitch Biermann, Seth Porcello, IMEMC, Children and Resistance, FSRN, Oaxaca teachers and students, Gil Amran, Lord Patch (aka l y braihwaite) & Tolan McNeil, Public Enemy, Headshot http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/mindwalk_20060617.mp3 Notes: Mindwalk 42: Henry, Ann Coulter & the FCC Mindwalk contains EXPLICIT CONTENT. licensed broadcasters should air during SAFE HARBOR. Download broadcast quality mp3 or find rss feed here: http://www.upstartradio.com/Podcast/Podcast.html http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/06/10262.php http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=en/node/1080 Explicit language in this episode. Hard to avoid when dealing with Henry Rollins. Audio taken from a few short films I found interesting on Google Video. A 10 year old girl from Jenin Refugee Camp, Palestine sings her song. Taken from a very well made radio documentary "Children and Resistance by Seth Porcello / IMEMC link below. Teachers, students, and flower merchants fight government opression in Oaxaca, Mexico mixed with Gil Amran. Lord Patch, Public Enemy and Headshot wishes the President good night. I should note the first piece by Henry is creative commentary and has been lesbian approved. The NEW Upstart Radio Live Stream is up an running (in a limited fashion). I've got about 6 hour of content streaming. New website as well. Click in and email me your comments. http://www.upstartradio.com TRT 29:30Stereo 128/44 27meg mp3 Credits: Henry Rollins, Ainaley Burrows, Mitch Biermann, Seth Porcello, IMEMC, Children and Resistance, FSRN, Oaxaca teachers and students, Gil Amran, Lord Patch & Tolan McNeil, Public Enemy, Headshot http://henryrollins.ifc.com http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8294811987362622644&q=iraq http://www.myspace.com/ainsleyburrows http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/06/10216.php http://www.thefreedomtheatre.org/ http://www.gilamran.com http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a047braithwaite.php http://www.banfrank.net http://head-shot.biz/ http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7392520355401418874 http://www.radio4all.net/index.php?op=program-info&program_id=18594&nav=type& -- Stay Strong -"I testified/My mama cried/Black people died/When the other man lied" -- chuck d "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as) "We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit to a process of humiliation." --patrick o'neil "...we have the responsibility to make no deal with the oppressor" --harry belafonte "...in time, we will look back to this age with incredulity and amazement -- and victories like Hamas in Israel will be the *best* of our memories." -- mumia abu jamal -- "what state? what union?" "...these people generate wars in Asia and Africa,...These are the people who, in the last century, caused several devastating wars. In one world war alone, they killed over 60 million people.... In the near future, Allah willing, we will put you to trial in courts established by the peoples...."-- mahmoud ahmadinejad http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a047braithwaite.php http://cleveland.indymedia.org/uploads/2006/07/olivet___h.a.t.s_in_the_square___loud_ruffa1b.mp3 \ http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7255.php \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date \ http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/en_fins__clichy-sous_bois_amixquiet-_lordpatch_the_giver__.mp3 \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 02:39:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Ciccariello Subject: Semiotic Wound MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline A Lyrical Bricolage. "Semiotic Wound" http://tinyurl.com/ejz24 -- Peter Ciccariello http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 01:36:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: online video on the failed 2002 against Hugo Chavez's government MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit here's a curious video: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5832390545689805144&q=american+revol ution this is "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised", a sort of documentary about the failed 2002 coup attempt against the Venezuelan government of Hugo Chavez. the video 'reads' a bit like Venezuelan propaganda, though it was apparently directed and produced by Kim Bartley and Donnacha O'Brian, whom i think are Irish. which is to say i don't think it *is* Venezuelan propaganda, but there is very little balance in tracing the nature of the conflict. that said, it's the first extended video i've seen on the failed coup attempt, and it is fascinating to see how it unfolded, or how it unfolds from the perspective Bartley and O'Brian create, which clearly is not without more than a few grains of truth. what we get is a very pro-Chavez perspective on the failed coup. i think they could have really strengthened their video by making it less thoroughly partisan. as it is, one comes away looking for something with more balance. still, the coup would have succeeded were it not for strong popular support for Chavez. and, of course, it might have succeeded were the conspirators more ruthless and have murdered him--though the strength of the popular support for Chavez would have made such a move very difficult to follow except with a more harshly repressive regime than perhaps they really wanted to undertake. the key bone of contention has been the nationalizing of the oil industry in Venezuela, which is the third or fourth largest oil-producing nation in the world. This move has been of course extrordinarily unpopular with the USA government and within Venezuela itself among many. But with that much wealth, there are far too many poor people in Venezuela, Chavez recognizes this, and is trying to do something about it. And for that reason, I think he has to be viewed as genuinely progressive in a society where the distribution of wealth and education has not been just at all. Whether he can actually create a better situation apparently remains to be seen, but I wish him luck. does anyone know of any good books or videos on this matter? ja ps: interesting the context: google video on the net. not something you're likely to see on nbc. i looked through the google video. this one seems to be the only interesting thing in all the header info i looked at. also, a curious title ('the revolution will not be televised') given the crucial nature of tv in the process as depicted in the video. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 12:52:08 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cris cheek Subject: Re: online video on the failed 2002 against Hugo Chavez's government In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the video was aired several times on BBC4 in 2005 and i saw it a couple of times then the film-makers were in Venezuela making a documentary about Chavez when they were caught up in first-hand wtness of the events as they unfolded they talk about this openly in the film - they do provide background as to their intentions and they provide contextual perspectives clearly they don't say as much as you would like Jim, but they didn't set out to offer what you want so . . . -- it's like i've read critiques of United 93 saying it was weaker for not providing back narratives for passengers on the plane (omg - yawn, the great thing about that movie is that it is just like getting on a plane with a load of people that you don't know) - - - anyway the film is terrific!! i'd urge everyone to watch it thanks for passing on its presence as a stream on google Jim -- and interesting that it appears under a search on American Revolution On 8 Jul 2006, at 09:36, Jim Andrews wrote: > here's a curious video: > > http://video.google.com/videoplay? > docid=5832390545689805144&q=american+revol > ution > > this is "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised", a sort of documentary > about > the failed 2002 coup attempt against the Venezuelan government of Hugo > Chavez. > > the video 'reads' a bit like Venezuelan propaganda, though it was > apparently > directed and produced by Kim Bartley and Donnacha O'Brian, whom i > think are > Irish. > > which is to say i don't think it *is* Venezuelan propaganda, but there > is > very little balance in tracing the nature of the conflict. > > that said, it's the first extended video i've seen on the failed coup > attempt, and it is fascinating to see how it unfolded, or how it > unfolds > from the perspective Bartley and O'Brian create, which clearly is not > without more than a few grains of truth. what we get is a very > pro-Chavez > perspective on the failed coup. > > i think they could have really strengthened their video by making it > less > thoroughly partisan. as it is, one comes away looking for something > with > more balance. > > still, the coup would have succeeded were it not for strong popular > support > for Chavez. and, of course, it might have succeeded were the > conspirators > more ruthless and have murdered him--though the strength of the popular > support for Chavez would have made such a move very difficult to follow > except with a more harshly repressive regime than perhaps they really > wanted > to undertake. > > the key bone of contention has been the nationalizing of the oil > industry in > Venezuela, which is the third or fourth largest oil-producing nation > in the > world. This move has been of course extrordinarily unpopular with the > USA > government and within Venezuela itself among many. But with that much > wealth, there are far too many poor people in Venezuela, Chavez > recognizes > this, and is trying to do something about it. And for that reason, I > think > he has to be viewed as genuinely progressive in a society where the > distribution of wealth and education has not been just at all. Whether > he > can actually create a better situation apparently remains to be seen, > but I > wish him luck. > > does anyone know of any good books or videos on this matter? > > ja > > ps: interesting the context: google video on the net. not something > you're > likely to see on nbc. i looked through the google video. this one > seems to > be the only interesting thing in all the header info i looked at. > also, a > curious title ('the revolution will not be televised') given the > crucial > nature of tv in the process as depicted in the video. > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 09:51:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Phil Primeau Subject: P-STAR Summer Chapbook Contest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline *P-STAR Summer Chapbook Contest* *What:* A chapbook contest run by Phil Primeau and financed by PERSISTENCIA*PRESS. Manuscripts should be no longer than thirty pages, flexibility is a plus. Poetry or short fiction only. No vispo. *When:* Manuscripts may be submitted at any point between July 8, 2006 and August 8, 2006. Winner will be announced by September 1. *Who:* All are welcome to enter; special consideration will be given to up-and-coming voices. *Why:* Winner receives $150 prize, 150 chapbooks (with unlimited POD for three months). One honorable mention will be compensated for entry fee. *Where:* PERSISTENCIA 5 Long Meadow Drive E. Greenwich, Rhode Island 02818 Include SASE, no electronic submissions. $10 entry fee. Phil Primeau Manager-in-Chief PERSISTENCIA http://procession.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 10:04:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: gentle citizens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Friends- I want to thank those of you who have contributed a buck or more--your name is listed under "gentle citizens": http://observable.org/dollar/ Very, very cool of you. -Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 10:19:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised In-Reply-To: <7bab8a018cd3fd353b7992fcafa7388c@slang.demon.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed The tile of the film is from the famous lyrics written by Gil Scott-Heron performed as i recall by the Last Poets. The video has been shown many times here in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, usa--we may be havng a sister city in Venezuela --and the Bolivarian government has offered to open a program here of free eye care and operations for low income people. A Bolivarian Circle meets at least once a month and there are frequent public events and showings of videos, speechs etc by various representatives of the Bolivarian government. I have a free DVD of "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised" given out as one of two choices at a recent talk by the Consul at Conuslate in Chicago here in Milwaukee--along with showing of several DVDs on the eye program and other program inside Venezuela. The Ambassador of Venezuela has visited a number of the cities of the Upper Midwest with high poverty rates--Milwaukee, Detroit, etc. There has also been discussion of low income fuel aid for Milwaukeeans offered by the Bolivarian government. There is also an exchange program being opened up for Milwaukeeans to go live and study and learn in Venezuela firsthand about what is happening there. I've found it very fascinating--unusual-- and moving actually that the Bolivarians have taken such an interest in Milwaukee and chosen it to be a place to open up to. It's going to be very interesting to see how al this develops--hopefully all for the very best for everyone. >From: cris cheek >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: online video on the failed 2002 against Hugo Chavez's >government >Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 12:52:08 +0100 > >the video was aired several times on BBC4 in 2005 and i saw it a couple of >times then >the film-makers were in Venezuela making a documentary about Chavez when >they were caught up in first-hand wtness of the events as they unfolded > >they talk about this openly in the film - they do provide background as >to their intentions and they provide contextual perspectives > >clearly they don't say as much as you would like Jim, but they didn't set >out to offer what you want so . . . -- it's like i've read critiques of >United 93 saying it was weaker for not providing back narratives for >passengers on the plane (omg - yawn, the great thing about that movie is >that it is just like getting on a plane with a load of people that you >don't know) - - - anyway the film is terrific!! > >i'd urge everyone to watch it > >thanks for passing on its presence as a stream on google Jim -- and >interesting that it appears under a search on American Revolution > >On 8 Jul 2006, at 09:36, Jim Andrews wrote: > >>here's a curious video: >> >>http://video.google.com/videoplay? >>docid=5832390545689805144&q=american+revol >>ution >> >>this is "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised", a sort of documentary >>about >>the failed 2002 coup attempt against the Venezuelan government of Hugo >>Chavez. >> >>the video 'reads' a bit like Venezuelan propaganda, though it was >>apparently >>directed and produced by Kim Bartley and Donnacha O'Brian, whom i think >>are >>Irish. >> >>which is to say i don't think it *is* Venezuelan propaganda, but there is >>very little balance in tracing the nature of the conflict. >> >>that said, it's the first extended video i've seen on the failed coup >>attempt, and it is fascinating to see how it unfolded, or how it unfolds >>from the perspective Bartley and O'Brian create, which clearly is not >>without more than a few grains of truth. what we get is a very pro-Chavez >>perspective on the failed coup. >> >>i think they could have really strengthened their video by making it less >>thoroughly partisan. as it is, one comes away looking for something with >>more balance. >> >>still, the coup would have succeeded were it not for strong popular >>support >>for Chavez. and, of course, it might have succeeded were the conspirators >>more ruthless and have murdered him--though the strength of the popular >>support for Chavez would have made such a move very difficult to follow >>except with a more harshly repressive regime than perhaps they really >>wanted >>to undertake. >> >>the key bone of contention has been the nationalizing of the oil industry >>in >>Venezuela, which is the third or fourth largest oil-producing nation in >>the >>world. This move has been of course extrordinarily unpopular with the USA >>government and within Venezuela itself among many. But with that much >>wealth, there are far too many poor people in Venezuela, Chavez >>recognizes >>this, and is trying to do something about it. And for that reason, I >>think >>he has to be viewed as genuinely progressive in a society where the >>distribution of wealth and education has not been just at all. Whether he >>can actually create a better situation apparently remains to be seen, but >>I >>wish him luck. >> >>does anyone know of any good books or videos on this matter? >> >>ja >> >>ps: interesting the context: google video on the net. not something >>you're >>likely to see on nbc. i looked through the google video. this one seems >>to >>be the only interesting thing in all the header info i looked at. also, a >>curious title ('the revolution will not be televised') given the crucial >>nature of tv in the process as depicted in the video. >> _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 16:28:43 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Roger Day Subject: Re: online video on the failed 2002 against Hugo Chavez's government In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Unlike Cris I never saw it on BBC4 so for me it was a bit of an eye-opener, even given the pro-Chavez slant, which I do not take as a bad thing per se. In such situations it's hard to have "balance" I think, and the film-makers do the right thing in terms of context as Cris says, with whom I agree whole-heartedly in this instance. Indeed, given the amount of anti-Chavez rhetoric coming from the north at that time e.g http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/23/robertson.chavez/, I came away with the feeling that the film-makers were relatively restrained under the circumstances. Roger On 08/07/06, Jim Andrews wrote: > here's a curious video: > > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5832390545689805144&q=american+revol > ution > > this is "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised", a sort of documentary about > the failed 2002 coup attempt against the Venezuelan government of Hugo > Chavez. > > the video 'reads' a bit like Venezuelan propaganda, though it was apparently > directed and produced by Kim Bartley and Donnacha O'Brian, whom i think are > Irish. > > which is to say i don't think it *is* Venezuelan propaganda, but there is > very little balance in tracing the nature of the conflict. > > that said, it's the first extended video i've seen on the failed coup > attempt, and it is fascinating to see how it unfolded, or how it unfolds > from the perspective Bartley and O'Brian create, which clearly is not > without more than a few grains of truth. what we get is a very pro-Chavez > perspective on the failed coup. > > i think they could have really strengthened their video by making it less > thoroughly partisan. as it is, one comes away looking for something with > more balance. > > still, the coup would have succeeded were it not for strong popular support > for Chavez. and, of course, it might have succeeded were the conspirators > more ruthless and have murdered him--though the strength of the popular > support for Chavez would have made such a move very difficult to follow > except with a more harshly repressive regime than perhaps they really wanted > to undertake. > > the key bone of contention has been the nationalizing of the oil industry in > Venezuela, which is the third or fourth largest oil-producing nation in the > world. This move has been of course extrordinarily unpopular with the USA > government and within Venezuela itself among many. But with that much > wealth, there are far too many poor people in Venezuela, Chavez recognizes > this, and is trying to do something about it. And for that reason, I think > he has to be viewed as genuinely progressive in a society where the > distribution of wealth and education has not been just at all. Whether he > can actually create a better situation apparently remains to be seen, but I > wish him luck. > > does anyone know of any good books or videos on this matter? > > ja > > ps: interesting the context: google video on the net. not something you're > likely to see on nbc. i looked through the google video. this one seems to > be the only interesting thing in all the header info i looked at. also, a > curious title ('the revolution will not be televised') given the crucial > nature of tv in the process as depicted in the video. > -- http://www.badstep.net/ http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ "You cannot make soup out of beauty" ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 17:56:06 +0200 Reply-To: argotist@fsmail.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Side Subject: Joanne Kyger and Simon Pettet in Conversation Comments: To: British Poetics Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joanne Kyger and Simon Pettet in Conversation at http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Joanne%20Kyger%20interview.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 12:36:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit no david performed by heron himself in an album of the same name ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 12:13:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised In-Reply-To: <20060708.124620.-182171.11.skyplums@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed steve--yes, right after sending that i remembered it was on the solo lp--actually was a hit-- didnt have time to send correction earlier went to see howlin wolf film at a friend's on cable his great great guitar player Hubert Sumlin lives here in Milwaukee >From: Steve Dalachinsky >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised >Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 12:36:19 -0400 > >no david >performed by heron himself in an album of the same name _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 10:23:44 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Paul Nelson Subject: Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David-Baptiste Chirot wrote: > steve--yes, right after sending that i remembered it was on the solo > lp--actually was a hit-- > didnt have time to send correction earlier went to see > howlin wolf film at a friend's on cable > his great great guitar player Hubert Sumlin lives here in > Milwaukee > *The revolution will no be televised* * *You will not be able to stay home, brother. You will not be able to plug in, turn on and cop out. You will not be able to lose yourself on skag and skip, Skip out for beer during commercials, Because the revolution will not be televised. The revolution will not be televised. The revolution will not be brought to you by Xerox In 4 parts without commercial interruptions. The revolution will not show you pictures of Nixon blowing a bugle and leading a charge by John Mitchell, General Abrams and Spiro Agnew to eat hog maws confiscated from a Harlem sanctuary. The revolution will not be televised. The revolution will not be brought to you by the Schaefer Award Theatre and will not star Natalie Woods and Steve McQueen or Bullwinkle and Julia. The revolution will not give your mouth sex appeal. The revolution will not get rid of the nubs. The revolution will not make you look five pounds thinner, because the revolution will not be televised, Brother. There will be no pictures of you and Willie May pushing that shopping cart down the block on the dead run, or trying to slide that color television into a stolen ambulance. NBC will not be able predict the winner at 8:32 or report from 29 districts. The revolution will not be televised. There will be no pictures of pigs shooting down brothers in the instant replay. There will be no pictures of pigs shooting down brothers in the instant replay. There will be no pictures of Whitney Young being run out of Harlem on a rail with a brand new process. There will be no slow motion or still life of Roy Wilkens strolling through Watts in a Red, Black and Green liberation jumpsuit that he had been saving For just the proper occasion. Green Acres, The Beverly Hillbillies, and Hooterville Junction will no longer be so damned relevant, and women will not care if Dick finally gets down with Jane on Search for Tomorrow because Black people will be in the street looking for a brighter day. The revolution will not be televised. There will be no highlights on the eleven o'clock news and no pictures of hairy armed women liberationists and Jackie Onassis blowing her nose. The theme song will not be written by Jim Webb, Francis Scott Key, nor sung by Glen Campbell, Tom Jones, Johnny Cash, Englebert Humperdink, or the Rare Earth. The revolution will not be televised. The revolution will not be right back after a message about a white tornado, white lightning, or white people. You will not have to worry about a dove in your bedroom, a tiger in your tank, or the giant in your toilet bowl. The revolution will not go better with Coke. The revolution will not fight the germs that may cause bad breath. The revolution will put you in the driver's seat. The revolution will not be televised, will not be televised, will not be televised, will not be televised. The revolution will be no re-run brothers; The revolution will be live. -- Paul E. Nelson www.GlobalVoicesRadio.org www.SPLAB.org 110 2nd Street S.W. #100 Slaughter, WA 98001 253.735.6328 toll-free 888.735.6328 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 13:37:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised In-Reply-To: <44AFEA20.4040803@speakeasy.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit And thinking abut today's president still calls to mind a Scott-Heron piece's closing lines about Reagan's election: We would rather have John Wayne, We would rather have John Wayne Sorry, I can't remember the title & my CDS are currently buried till home renovations are completed. Vernon -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul Nelson Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 1:24 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised David-Baptiste Chirot wrote: > steve--yes, right after sending that i remembered it was on the solo > lp--actually was a hit-- > didnt have time to send correction earlier went to see > howlin wolf film at a friend's on cable > his great great guitar player Hubert Sumlin lives here in > Milwaukee > *The revolution will no be televised* * *You will not be able to stay home, brother. You will not be able to plug in, turn on and cop out. You will not be able to lose yourself on skag and skip, Skip out for beer during commercials, Because the revolution will not be televised. The revolution will not be televised. The revolution will not be brought to you by Xerox In 4 parts without commercial interruptions. The revolution will not show you pictures of Nixon blowing a bugle and leading a charge by John Mitchell, General Abrams and Spiro Agnew to eat hog maws confiscated from a Harlem sanctuary. The revolution will not be televised. The revolution will not be brought to you by the Schaefer Award Theatre and will not star Natalie Woods and Steve McQueen or Bullwinkle and Julia. The revolution will not give your mouth sex appeal. The revolution will not get rid of the nubs. The revolution will not make you look five pounds thinner, because the revolution will not be televised, Brother. There will be no pictures of you and Willie May pushing that shopping cart down the block on the dead run, or trying to slide that color television into a stolen ambulance. NBC will not be able predict the winner at 8:32 or report from 29 districts. The revolution will not be televised. There will be no pictures of pigs shooting down brothers in the instant replay. There will be no pictures of pigs shooting down brothers in the instant replay. There will be no pictures of Whitney Young being run out of Harlem on a rail with a brand new process. There will be no slow motion or still life of Roy Wilkens strolling through Watts in a Red, Black and Green liberation jumpsuit that he had been saving For just the proper occasion. Green Acres, The Beverly Hillbillies, and Hooterville Junction will no longer be so damned relevant, and women will not care if Dick finally gets down with Jane on Search for Tomorrow because Black people will be in the street looking for a brighter day. The revolution will not be televised. There will be no highlights on the eleven o'clock news and no pictures of hairy armed women liberationists and Jackie Onassis blowing her nose. The theme song will not be written by Jim Webb, Francis Scott Key, nor sung by Glen Campbell, Tom Jones, Johnny Cash, Englebert Humperdink, or the Rare Earth. The revolution will not be televised. The revolution will not be right back after a message about a white tornado, white lightning, or white people. You will not have to worry about a dove in your bedroom, a tiger in your tank, or the giant in your toilet bowl. The revolution will not go better with Coke. The revolution will not fight the germs that may cause bad breath. The revolution will put you in the driver's seat. The revolution will not be televised, will not be televised, will not be televised, will not be televised. The revolution will be no re-run brothers; The revolution will be live. -- Paul E. Nelson www.GlobalVoicesRadio.org www.SPLAB.org 110 2nd Street S.W. #100 Slaughter, WA 98001 253.735.6328 toll-free 888.735.6328 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 18:16:41 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Paul Nelson Subject: Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > -----Original Message----- > From: Vernon Frazer [mailto:frazerv@BELLSOUTH.NET] > Sent: Saturday, July 8, 2006 05:37 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised > > And thinking abut today's president still calls to mind a Scott-Heron > piece's closing lines about Reagan's election: > > =09We would rather have John Wayne, > =09We would rather have John Wayne > > Sorry, I can't remember the title & my CDS are currently buried till ho= me > renovations are completed. > > Vernon > B-Movie: Well, the first thing I want to say is??Mandate my ass!? Because it seems as though we've been convinced that 26% of the registere= d voters, not even 26% of the American people, but 26% of the registered = voters form a mandate ? or a landslide. 21% voted for Skippy and 3, 4% vo= ted for somebody else who might have been running. But, oh yeah, I remember. In this year that we have now declared the year= from Shogun to Reagan, I remember what I said about Reagan?meant it. Act= ed like an actor?Hollyweird. Acted like a liberal. Acted like General Fra= nco when he acted like governor of California, then he acted like a repub= lican. Then he acted like somebody was going to vote for him for presiden= t. And now we act like 26% of the registered voters is actually a mandate= . We're all actors in this I suppose. What has happened is that in the last 20 years, America has changed from = a producer to a consumer. And all consumers know that when the producer n= ames the tune?the consumer has got to dance. That's the way it is. We use= d to be a producer ? very inflexible at that, and now we are consumers an= d, finding it difficult to understand. Natural resources and minerals wil= l change your world. The Arabs used to be in the 3rd World. They have bou= ght the 2nd World and put a firm down payment on the 1st one. Controlling= your resources we'll control your world. This country has been surprised= by the way the world looks now. They don't know if they want to be Matt = Dillon or Bob Dylan. They don't know if they want to be diplomats or cont= inue the same policy - of nuclear nightmare diplomacy. John Foster Dulles= ain't nothing but the name of an airport now. The idea concerns the fact that this country wants nostalgia. They want t= o go back as far as they can ? even if it's only as far as last week. Not= to face now or tomorrow, but to face backwards. And yesterday was the da= y of our cinema heroes riding to the rescue at the last possible moment. = The day of the man in the white hat or the man on the white horse - or th= e man who always came to save America at the last moment ? someone always= came to save America at the last moment ? especially in ?B? movies. And = when America found itself having a hard time facing the future, they look= ed for people like John Wayne. But since John Wayne was no longer availab= le, they settled for Ronald Reagan ? and it has placed us in a situation = that we can only look at ? like a ?B? movie. Come with us back to those inglorious days when heroes weren't zeros. Bef= ore fair was square. When the cavalry came straight away and all-American= men were like Hemingway to the days of the wondrous ?B? movie. The produ= cer underwritten by all the millionaires necessary will be Casper ?The De= fensive? Weinberger ? no more animated choice is available. The director = will be Attila the Haig, running around frantically declaring himself in = control and in charge. The ultimate realization of the inmates taking ove= r at the asylum. The screenplay will be adapted from the book called ?Voo= doo Economics? by George ?Papa Doc? Bush. Music by the ?Village People? t= he very military "Macho Man." ?Company!!!? ?Macho, macho man!? ? Two-three-four.? ? He likes to be ? well, you get the point.? ?Huuut! Your left! Your left! Your left?right, left, right, left, right?!= ? A theme song for saber-rallying and selling wars door-to-door. Remember, = we're looking for the closest thing we can find to John Wayne. Clich?s ab= ound like kangaroos ? courtesy of some spaced out Marlin Perkins, a Reaga= n contemporary. Clich?s like, ?itchy trigger finger? and ?tall in the sad= dle? and ?riding off or on into the sunset.? Clich?s like, ?Get off of my= planet by sundown!? More so than clich?s like, ?he died with his boots o= n.? Marine tough the man is. Bogart tough the man is. Cagney tough the ma= n is. Hollywood tough the man is. Cheap stick tough. And Bonzo's substant= ial. The ultimate in synthetic selling: A Madison Avenue masterpiece ? a = miracle ? a cotton-candy politician?Presto! Macho! ?Macho, macho man!? Put your orders in America. And quick as Kodak your leaders duplicate wit= h the accent being on the nukes - cause all of a sudden we have fallen pr= ey to selective amnesia - remembering what we want to remember and forget= ting what we choose to forget. All of a sudden, the man who called for a = blood bath on our college campuses is supposed to be Dudley ?God-damn? Do= -Right? ?You go give them liberals hell Ronnie.? That was the mandate. To the new= ?Captain Bly? on the new ship of fools. It was doubtlessly based on his = chameleon performance of the past - as a liberal democrat ? as the head o= f the Studio Actor's Guild. When other celluloid saviors were cringing in= terror from McCarthy ? Ron stood tall. It goes all the way back from Hol= lywood to hillbilly. From liberal to libelous, from ?Bonzo? to Birch idol= ?born again. Civil rights, women's rights, gay rights?it's all wrong. Cal= l in the cavalry to disrupt this perception of freedom gone wild. God dam= n it?first one wants freedom, then the whole damn world wants freedom. Nostalgia, that's what we want?the good ol' days?when we gave'em hell. Wh= en the buck stopped somewhere and you could still buy something with it. = To a time when movies were in black and white ? and so was everything els= e. Even if we go back to the campaign trail, before six-gun Ron shot off = his face and developed hoof-in-mouth. Before the free press went down bef= ore full-court press. And were reluctant to review the menu because they = knew the only thing available was ? Crow. Lon Chaney, our man of a thousand faces - no match for Ron. Doug Henning = does the make-up - special effects from Grecian Formula 16 and Crazy Glue= . Transportation furnished by the David Rockefeller of Remote Control Com= pany. Their slogan is, ?Why wait for 1984? You can panic now...and avoid = the rush.? So much for the good news? As Wall Street goes, so goes the nation. And here's a look at the closing= numbers ? racism's up, human rights are down, peace is shaky, war items = are hot - the House claims all ties. Jobs are down, money is scarce ? and= common sense is at an all-time low on heavy trading. Movies were looking= better than ever and now no one is looking because, we're starring in a = ?B? movie. And we would rather had John Wayne?we would rather had John Wa= yne. "You don't need to be in no hurry. You ain't never really got to worry. And you don't need to check on how you feel. Just keep repeating that none of this is real. And if you're sensing, that something's wrong, Well just remember, that it won't be too long Before the director cuts the scene?yea." ?This ain't really your life, Ain't really your life, Ain't really ain't nothing but a movie.? [Refrain repeated about 25 times or more in an apocalyptic crescendo with= a military cadence.] ?This ain't really your life, Ain't really your life, Ain't really ain't nothing but a movie.? > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]= On > Behalf Of Paul Nelson > Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 1:24 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised > > David-Baptiste Chirot wrote: > > steve--yes, right after sending that i remembered it was on the solo = > > lp--actually was a hit-- > > didnt have time to send correction earlier went to see > > howlin wolf film at a friend's on cable > > his great great guitar player Hubert Sumlin lives here in= > > Milwaukee > > > > *The revolution will no be televised* > > * *You will not be able to stay home, brother. > You will not be able to plug in, turn on and cop out. > You will not be able to lose yourself on skag and skip, > Skip out for beer during commercials, > Because the revolution will not be televised. > > The revolution will not be televised. > The revolution will not be brought to you by Xerox > In 4 parts without commercial interruptions. > The revolution will not show you pictures of Nixon > blowing a bugle and leading a charge by John > Mitchell, General Abrams and Spiro Agnew to eat > hog maws confiscated from a Harlem sanctuary. > > The revolution will not be televised. > The revolution will not be brought to you by the > Schaefer Award Theatre and will not star Natalie > Woods and Steve McQueen or Bullwinkle and Julia. > The revolution will not give your mouth sex appeal. > The revolution will not get rid of the nubs. > The revolution will not make you look five pounds > thinner, because the revolution will not be televised, Brother. > > There will be no pictures of you and Willie May > pushing that shopping cart down the block on the dead run, > or trying to slide that color television into a stolen ambulance. > NBC will not be able predict the winner at 8:32 > or report from 29 districts. > The revolution will not be televised. > > There will be no pictures of pigs shooting down > brothers in the instant replay. > There will be no pictures of pigs shooting down > brothers in the instant replay. > There will be no pictures of Whitney Young being > run out of Harlem on a rail with a brand new process. > There will be no slow motion or still life of Roy > Wilkens strolling through Watts in a Red, Black and > Green liberation jumpsuit that he had been saving > For just the proper occasion. > > Green Acres, The Beverly Hillbillies, and Hooterville > Junction will no longer be so damned relevant, and > women will not care if Dick finally gets down with > Jane on Search for Tomorrow because Black people > will be in the street looking for a brighter day. > The revolution will not be televised. > > There will be no highlights on the eleven o'clock > news and no pictures of hairy armed women > liberationists and Jackie Onassis blowing her nose. > The theme song will not be written by Jim Webb, > Francis Scott Key, nor sung by Glen Campbell, Tom > Jones, Johnny Cash, Englebert Humperdink, or the Rare Earth. > The revolution will not be televised. > > The revolution will not be right back > after a message about a white tornado, white lightning, or white people= . > You will not have to worry about a dove in your > bedroom, a tiger in your tank, or the giant in your toilet bowl. > The revolution will not go better with Coke. > The revolution will not fight the germs that may cause bad breath. > The revolution will put you in the driver's seat. > > The revolution will not be televised, will not be televised, > will not be televised, will not be televised. > The revolution will be no re-run brothers; > The revolution will be live. > > -- > Paul E. Nelson > www.GlobalVoicesRadio.org > www.SPLAB.org > 110 2nd Street S.W. #100 > Slaughter, WA 98001 > 253.735.6328 > toll-free 888.735.6328 > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 14:25:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain there were actually two versions of THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT BE TELEVISED released, the second with more instrumentation -- that's the one most people are familiar with -- you can find it on most of the gratest hits compilations -- If you'd like to hear the orignal version, which was mostly Gil with a drummer, it's on his very first album, SMALL TALK AT 125th and Lenox, released in 1970 but available on CD -- The version that was a hit on the radio and that most people remember appeared on PIECES OF A MAN, also available on CD -- The album titled THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT BE TELEVISED was a much later compilation of his early work. Gil also had a book titled SMALL TALK AT 125th and LENOX that was released around the same time as the first album -- most of that is available in the more recent Third World Press book -- On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 12:36:19 +0000, Steve Dalachinsky wrote: > no david > performed by heron himself in an album of the same name > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 19:59:24 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cris cheek Subject: you are listening Comments: To: bRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed "an evocative and thoroughly contemporary audio primer on ideas around=20= silence" Following 209radio's successful short-term FM broadcast (Restricted=20 Service Licence, or RSL) in February 06 we have now released a double=20= format CD: - including 10 tracks (50 minutes) of audio CD. Audio tracks include: 5 conversational meditations on Silence by a teenage heavy metal fan, a=20= radio DJ, a journalist, a scientist and a teacher A performance of John Cage's 4'33" for laptops 'Search On Silence' by cris cheek An extraordinary recording of an attempt at domestic silence Live radio studio mixes by cris cheek, Simon Keep, Karl Hartland and=20 Kirsten Lavers PLUS a collection of 64 '209Shorts' as mp3s; 209Shorts are sound art=20 pieces that are 2 min 9 secs or 209 secs in length created especially=20 for 209radio by a wealth of international sound artists. Made possible by Arts Council England East, who funded 209Radio's RSL=20 sound art residencies by Kirsten Lavers and Simon Keep. for more details visit: http://www.radiotaxi.org.uk/rsl.html Stick it in your laptop or Audio CD player! You can grab yourself a copy of this lovingly-crafted, limited edition=20= CD, for the piffling sum of =A35 (plus =A31 postage/packing), by = visiting=20 www.209radio.co.uk/shop and pay using Paypal or your credit/debit=20 card. Hurry, while stock lasts ! A 209radio and RADIOTAXI production 209Radio is a broadbased volunteer run community radio station for=20 Cambridge distinctive in its support of artists working with the medium=20= of sound. 209Radio currently webcasts 24/7 from www.209radio.co.uk and=20= has recently been awarded the Ofcom 5 year community radio FM license=20 for Cambridge - due to go on air in Spring 2007=00 RADIOTAXI creates temporary site-responsive FM / Web radio fiercely=20 committed to neighbourhood participation through a serious engagement=20 with sound, liveness and listening.www.radiotaxi.org.uk The RADIOTAXI team are currently (in alphabetical order): cris cheek : POETICS: liveness, flow, dynamic, improvisation, talk,=20 field sound, debate, anchoring Karl Hartland: POLITICS: sound engineering, training, community=20 development, journalism, studio management Kirsten Lavers : PLASTICS: framing, participation, curation,=20 accessibility, conversation, anchoring, documentation Simon Keep : PHONICS: detailed sound, live mixing, foley, experimental=20= technologies, composition, beats= ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 15:04:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Mina Loy's visual art in NY Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed A very rare showing of Mina Loy's visual art work, three collage/paintings and two drawings, is now on view in New York. For those of you who won't be able to get there, I've posted some of Loy's images, as well as full gallery info, at http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/bernstein/blog This upper east side galley show also features more familiar works by Baroness Elsa von Freytag-Lorninghoven. The show is called "Daughters of Dada," but the women in this show -- including the fantastic Florine Stettheimer -- are really contemporaries of the Dadaists, not daughters. The show is quite small, but it's a good supplement to the big Dada show at MoMa. And for those interested in Loy, in particular ... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 12:48:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 8-Jul-06, at 8:19 AM, David-Baptiste Chirot wrote: > The tile of the film is from the famous lyrics written by Gil > Scott-Heron performed as i recall by the Last Poets. > > The video has been shown many times here in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, > usa--we may be havng a sister city in Venezuela --and the Bolivarian > government has offered to open a program here of free eye care and > operations for low income people. Wonderful on both counts. But remember the response when Cuba offered medical aid in New Orleans. > Mr. G. Bowering, Misses the open faces of youth in socialist Europe, 1966. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 12:50:11 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: online video on the failed 2002 against Hugo Chavez's government In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 8-Jul-06, at 8:28 AM, Roger Day wrote: > Unlike Cris I never saw it on BBC4 so for me it was a bit of an > eye-opener, even given the pro-Chavez slant, What would be wrong with a "pro-Chavez" slant, when Chavez in the elected president and the other side is illegal foreigners? > George Bowering, D.Litt. A true innocent. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 16:35:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charlotte Mandel Subject: Re: Mina Loy's visual art in NY In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20060708142427.03f4e030@english.upenn.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Charles - thanks so much for your notice and blog post which anticipated me by a couple of minutes! I just got back from NY to see this small but fascinating show. My chief interest also was in Mina Loy - the repro can't show the texture/depth of her pieces. Warning - the Francis Nauman gallery, 22 E 80th, is on the 5th floor and the elevator today was out of order - my companion had to wait for me downstairs. The show ends July 28th. The Met Museum, surprised us with fine modern art show grouping, with some great classic Stettheimers. Charlotte On Jul 8, 2006, at 3:04 PM, Charles Bernstein wrote: A very rare showing of Mina Loy's visual art work, three collage/ paintings and two drawings, is now on view in New York. For those of you who won't be able to get there, I've posted some of Loy's images, as well as full gallery info, at http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/ bernstein/blog This upper east side galley show also features more familiar works by Baroness Elsa von Freytag-Lorninghoven. The show is called "Daughters of Dada," but the women in this show -- including the fantastic Florine Stettheimer -- are really contemporaries of the Dadaists, not daughters. The show is quite small, but it's a good supplement to the big Dada show at MoMa. And for those interested in Loy, in particular ... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 14:39:59 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: online video on the failed 2002 against Hugo Chavez's government In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Unlike Cris I never saw it on BBC4 so for me it was a bit of an > > eye-opener, even given the pro-Chavez slant, > > What would be wrong with a "pro-Chavez" slant, > when Chavez in the elected president > and the other side is illegal foreigners? > > George Bowering, D.Litt. It is a compelling video. No question about it. And, for once, we see a coup--probably supported by the USA--of an elected government fail in Latin America. Justice prevails this time. And that is to be celebrated, and that's what the video does. When an influential fundamentalist like Pat Robertson publicly calls for Chavez's assassination, you get the sense that Chavez's nationalization of the Venezuelan oil industry is deeply threatening to USA oil and the USA government. Still, the degree to which the video is pro-Chavez makes it sound like everybody but the rich in Venezuela is all for Chavez. I suspect the opposition is more diverse than that. In practice it is very hard to nationalize the oil industry, make it work, and make it work for the Venezuelan people. For instance, I'm under the impression that there has been a 'brain drain' of engineering expertise in Venezuela since the nationalization. Even native Venezuelan engineering expertise, not simply foreign expertise. That's what I gathered from a young Venezuelan mechanical engineer I had a couple of caipirinhas with in Rio. He's living and working in Houston. What a pity, I thought, that this highly-trained Venezuelan is working in Houston. He says if your politics aren't right you can't get a job in Venezuela in the oil industry. Whenever I see anything as univocal as this video, I wonder about its veracity. To me, truth in matters such as politics is murkier. If the Chavez government is primarily on the moral high ground, it would not hurt the cause to represent the opposition in the video as something other than straw figures. ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 20:14:01 -0700 Reply-To: ishaq1824@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: OCAP Women of Etobicoke: DEMONSTRATION AGAINST POLICE HARASSMENT MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/07/10457.php ckut community radio by tamara Friday, Jul. 07, 2006 at 11:14 PM news(at)ckut.ca interview with salma one of the organizers of the ocap women of etibocoke audio: MP3 at 1.5 mebibytes http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/ocapwomenofetobicoke.mp3 OCAP Women of Etobicoke: DEMONSTRATION AGAINST POLICE HARASSMENT Friday July 7 12 pm Outside 23 Division 2126 Kipling Ave By TTC: Subway to Kipling Station Take Bus #45 (Kipling North) Get off at Redcliff Blvd and walk south to the division The Metro Toronto Police 23 division has a long history of violent and racist behaviour in the housing projects of North Etobicoke-charging kids with little to no evidence, brutal arrests, trumped up charges, slamming youth with baseless criminal records from an early age. Parents in protecting their children are hit as hard by the division. In the last weeks, an increasing number of youth have been targeted and arrested by this division. One particular incident has shaken and angered families living in Mount Olive, a housing project at Finch and Kipling. In response to the arrest of a 14 year old boy at Mount Olive, organizer Amina Ali says,"The boys his age used to play basketball or go to the youth centre in Albion, but now at 7pm they have to go home. Because they're scared - maybe I'll be booked, maybe I'll be stopped. It traumatized the small kids under fifteen. What happened to Faizal did not happen to him alone. It happened to the whole community." As the government increases spending on police in poor areas in the name of safety, poor communities feel the effects of escalating violence and injustice at the hands of police. Accordingly, it is necessary for communities to resist this escalation. Friday will see the first demonstration organized by the OCAP Women of Etobicoke. Please join us in standing against police harassment of youth in North Etobicoke. For more information, call: OCAP Women of Etobicoke 416-749-7770 - -- Stay Strong -"I testified/My mama cried/Black people died/When the other man lied" -- chuck d "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as) \ "We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit to a process of humiliation." --patrick o'neil \ "...we have the responsibility to make no deal with the oppressor" --harry belafonte \ "...in time, we will look back to this age with incredulity and amazement -- and victories like Hamas in Israel will be the *best* of our memories." -- mumia abu jamal -- "what state? what union?" "...these people generate wars in Asia and Africa,...These are the people who, in the last century, caused several devastating wars. In one world war alone, they killed over 60 million people.... In the near future, Allah willing, we will put you to trial in courts established by the peoples...."-- mahmoud ahmadinejad \ http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a006-braithwaite-01.php \ http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7255.php \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date \ http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/en_fins__clichy-sous_bois_amixquiet-_lordpatch_the_giver__.mp3 \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ \ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 11:22:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Wilcox Subject: Poets in Park Continues July 15, Albany, NY Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed If you were there Sat., you know how much fun you had -- come back next=20= Sat. for more Poetry in the Park, & bring a friend -- no, bring lots of=20= friends. The second reading in the Poets in the Park series will be on July 15=20 and will feature Albany poets Alifair Skebe and Thom Francis. Alifair=20= Skebe=92s poems have recently appeared in or are forthcoming in = Blueline,=20 Colere, Underground Voices, and 32 Poems. Her poetry chapbook Love=20 Letters: Les Cartes Postales (Basilisk Press 2004) features love poems=20= in traditional form and visual collage; she is currently a doctoral=20 student at UAlbany. Thom Francis is the president of Albany Poets,=20 Inc., a non-profit organization (www.albanypoets.com ) dedicated to=20 promoting poetry & poetry readings in Albany. =93Poets in the Park=94, has been celebrating poetry in July at the = Robert=20 Burns statue in Washington Park, Albany, NY since 1989. The series,=20 formerly run by the late Tom Nattell and now hosted by Dan Wilcox, will=20= continue with readings through July 29; the readings start at 7:00 PM=20 and are free & open to the public. The Robert Burns statue is near=20 where Henry Johnson Blvd. passes through Washington Park and crosses=20 Hudson Ave. The remaining schedule of readings is: July 22: Bob Sharkey and Virginia Osborn with EYBE (and poems by=20 prisoners) July 29: Bernadette Mayer and Carol Graser Rain dates for each event are the following Sunday, same time, same=20 place. Please bring your own chairs or blankets to sit on. Sponsored by the Poetry Motel Foundation. For more information contact=20= Dan Wilcox, at dwlcx@earthlink.net; 518-482-0262. =20= ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 13:09:34 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Beckett Subject: kevin killian MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Could someone please backchannel me with Kevin Killian's email address? Mille grazie. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 19:57:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fulcrum Annual Organization: Fulcrum Annual Subject: Last-minute call for essays on "Poets & Philosophers"! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is a last-minute call for essays for a feature tentatively titled "Poets and Philosophers," which will appear in Fulcrum 5. The issue is almost ready to go to press, which means we would need to see the work near-immediately. Please query by email first if you have something you think may fit. Best, ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Philip Nikolayev & Katia Kapovich, eds. FULCRUM: AN ANNUAL OF POETRY AND AESTHETICS 334 Harvard Street, Suite D-2 Cambridge, MA 02139, USA phone 617-864-7874 e-mail editor@fulcrumpoetry.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 20:25:26 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: FANTASTIC new book by Frank Sherlock! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SPRING DIET OF FLOWERS AT NIGHT, by Frank Sherlock "It has been night for some time now This is not an observation leveraged as blame but a wish to be shared in the dark" First commissioned by Jessica Lowenthal and Joshua Schuster as part of a project entitled "Poetry, Politics, Proximity: the Third Annual Kerry Sherin Wright Prize." This stunning new poem "Spring Diet of Flowers at Night" by Frank Sherlock is now a chapbook published by Mooncalf Press. "There should be infinite meaning in the blandness of a shot victim in an unfamiliar neighborhood but prospects of imagined life are tied to clean logic Diagetic background music has been used to steer me into attempting an architectural line" Full color cover art by artist Jon Allen. TO VIEW JON ALLEN'S AMAZING COVER: _http://FrankSherlock.blogspot.com_ (http://FrankSherlock.blogspot.com) For ordering details, contact Mooncalf Press: _MooncalfPress@aol.com_ (mailto:MooncalfPress@aol.com) Mooncalf : A freak. [Mid-16th century. From moon + calf; originally in the meaning of "shapeless fleshy mass in the womb," thought to be caused by the influence of the moon.] ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 20:37:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aryanil Mukherjee Subject: Re: FANTASTIC new book by Frank Sherlock! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit a beautiful poem, so refreshing and renewed. thanks for sharing it with the group. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Allen Conrad" To: Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 8:25 PM Subject: FANTASTIC new book by Frank Sherlock! > > SPRING DIET OF FLOWERS AT NIGHT, by Frank Sherlock > > "It has been night > for some time now > This is not an > observation leveraged > as blame but a wish > to be shared in the dark" > > First commissioned by Jessica Lowenthal and Joshua Schuster > as part of a project entitled "Poetry, Politics, Proximity: the > Third Annual Kerry Sherin Wright Prize." This stunning new > poem "Spring Diet of Flowers at Night" by Frank Sherlock is > now a chapbook published by Mooncalf Press. > > "There should be infinite > meaning in > the blandness of a shot > victim in an unfamiliar > neighborhood but > > prospects of imagined life > are tied to clean logic > > Diagetic background > music has been used to > steer me into attempting > an architectural line" > > Full color cover art by artist Jon Allen. > TO VIEW JON ALLEN'S AMAZING COVER: _http://FrankSherlock.blogspot.com_ > (http://FrankSherlock.blogspot.com) > For ordering details, contact Mooncalf Press: _MooncalfPress@aol.com_ > (mailto:MooncalfPress@aol.com) > > Mooncalf : A freak. [Mid-16th century. From > moon + calf; originally in the meaning of > "shapeless fleshy mass in the womb," thought > to be caused by the influence of the moon.] > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: 7/7/2006 > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 19:18:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: kevin killian MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit can someone please back channel me amiel alcalay's email thanks dlachinsky what about those french hey almost think of cancelling my next trip there ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 19:51:57 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joshua Wilkinson Subject: Salt Lake City Poets? In-Reply-To: <20060709.211643.-132169.3.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello, friends, I'm setting up a little tour this fall through Utah, ID, & MT--does anybody have a suggestion about where we (Noah Eli Gordon & Paul Fattaruso & myself) might read on the 19th of October in SLC? Many thanks, joshua marie wilkinson __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 06:24:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adam Fieled Subject: Mini Q & A on PFS Post: Dr. Noam Chomsky MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit For the second time, I've had the honor of corresponding with Dr. Noam Chomsky. I asked him a pertintent (I thought) question regarding the Democratic Party. To read Dr. Chomsky's intriguing (&, possibly, infuriating) response, see PFS Post: http://www.artrecess.blogspot.com. I'm eager to see what everyone makes of this... Best, Adam Fieled afieled@yahoo.com --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 12:52:17 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: tribes Comments: To: WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA Comments: cc: WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cassamassima show is fantastic all in town get to tribes gallery 285 e 3rd st 2nd fl to see it WoW also if anyone out there will seriously consider reviewing my new book let me know i'll get you info backchannel please ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 12:33:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: balestrieri email? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" anybody got pete balestrieri's email address? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 13:32:31 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Phil Primeau Subject: Re: tribes In-Reply-To: <20060710.130253.-166029.18.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Steve, Send it this way. Phil Primeau 5 Long Meadow Drive E. Greenwich, RI 02818 I'll see what I can do. On 7/10/06, Steve Dalachinsky wrote: > > cassamassima show is fantastic all in town get to tribes gallery > 285 e 3rd st 2nd fl to see it WoW > > > also if anyone out there will seriously consider reviewing my new book > let me know > i'll get you info backchannel please > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 13:54:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Kelleher Subject: JUST BUFFALO E-NEWSLETTER 6-26-06 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable WINNERS OF THE FIRST BUFFALO POETRY SLAM CHAMPIONSHIP: -- Howard Smith (Grand prize winner) -- Lauren Emmett -- Ntare Ali Gault -- Kevin Fehr The event was a huge success, and raised enough money to send the four champions together as the first ever Buffalo team to The National Poetry Sl= am in Austin, Texas, August 9-12, where they will compete against 80 other teams = of poets in four days of verbal battles. OPEN READINGS THIS WEEK Carnegie Art Center 240 Goundry St., North Tonawanda (Meets monthly on the second Wednesday) Featured: Mike Fanelli & Marlyn Martinez-Saroff Wednesday, July 12, 7 P.M. 10 slots for open readers Rust Belt Books 202 Allen Street, Buffalo (Meets the monthly on the third Sunday) Featured: Richard Olson & Ed Taylor Sunday, July 16, 7 P.M. 10 slots for open readers SPOKEN ARTS RADIO, with host Sarah Campbell A joint production of Just Buffalo Literary Center and WBFO 88.7 FM Airs Sundays during Weekend Edition at 8:35 a.m. and Mondays during Morning Edition at 6:35 A.M. & 8:35 a.m. Upcoming Features: July 16 & 17, SPOTLIGHT ON YOUTH OPEN READINGS All shows are now available for download on our website, including features= on John Ashbery, Paul Auster, Lyn Hejinian, Ray Bradbury and more... http://www.justbuffalo.org/events/sar.shtml JUST BUFFALO WRITER'S CRITIQUE GROUP Members of Just Buffalo are welcome to attend a free, bi-monthly writer cri= tique group in CEPA's Flux Gallery. Group meets 1st and 3rd Wednesday at 7 p.m. Call fo= r details. Note: the critique group is on hiatus until September. Please call in Augu= st if you'd like to join up in the fall. LITERARY BUFFALO CALL FOR GLBT WRITERS Craig Keller of LDVOICES is trying to organize a pilot GLBT poetry reading= or slam in a local GLBT bar which might POSSIBLY develop into a regular event, since= there is a dearth of local GLBT voices when these events are held in straight bars &= other straight venues. He needs the commitment from GLBT poets & short story wr= iters who want to be on the slate for the first one. Inquires, suggestions & e-m= ail address where he can contact you with date(s) time & location of said event which = will happen if he can show critical mass of interest to bar owners/managers for an even= t like this. Please contact ldvoices=40yahoo.com. Title your message =E2=80=9CRE: G= LBT reading=E2=80=9D. UNSUBSCRIBE If you would like to unsubscribe from this list, just say so and you will b= e immediately removed. _______________________________ Michael Kelleher Artistic Director Just Buffalo Literary Center Market Arcade 617 Main St., Ste. 202A Buffalo, NY 14203 716.832.5400 716.270.0184 (fax) www.justbuffalo.org mjk=40justbuffalo.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 16:03:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: tribes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit thanks phil you are parnassus i think they send you one ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 17:47:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: wall st journal Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" did anyone see the frontpage article in today's wall st journal about afghan cabbies and their rival poetry groups? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 16:39:11 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Wallace Subject: Mary Shelley's Surfboard by Joe Safdie now available MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello Poetics List: Joe Safdie, a longtime off and on member of this list, has a new chapbook out, Mary Shelley's Surfboard. Part John Clarke, part traffic jam, part globalist Southern California pleasure nightmare from which you are not even beginning to wake up. My bet is that you'll enjoy every word of it anyway. Check it out through: http://www.bluepressbooks.com/ I swear I am not writing this from the car, but how are you supposed to know? Mark Wallace __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 19:39:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William Allegrezza Subject: series A--a new Chicago reading series Comments: cc: Aaron Belz , acraig3@uic.edu, Archambeau , "Bowen, Kristy" , brandihoman@hotmail.com, brian whitener , Chris Glomski , Chuck Stebelton , cwilliams@colum.edu, D Dente , DAVID PAVELICH , dtrinidad@colum.edu, editor@BLAZEVOX.ORG, epelshta@uchicago.edu, Garin Cycholl , Jennifer Karmin , JOHN TIPTON , "Kanownik, Christine" , Kerri Sonnenberg , leag@CHARTER.NET, marci nelligan , Mark Tardi , Michael OLeary , Michelle Taransky , "Odelius, Kristy Lee" , Peter O'Leary , Ray Bianchi , Simon Muench , Steve Halle , Tomasula Steve , ttrigilio@colum.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit series A, a new reading series, is hosting its first reading on Thursday, July 20, at the new Hyde Park Art Center at 6:00 p.m. The featured readers will be Kerri Sonnenberg and Chris Glomski. I invite everyone to come out and celebrate the launch of a new series in Chicago and to celebrate the writing of these wonderful poets. For more information, please see http://www.moriapoetry.com/seriesa.html. The Hyde Park Art Center is located at 5020 S. Cornell Avenue. The reading will be held in the conference room. Bios: Chris Glomski was born in Pueblo, Colorado in 1965. Raised in Illinois, he has also made his home in Iowa and Italy. His first collection of poems, TRANSPARENCIES LIFTED FROM NOON, was published last fall by MEB / Spuyten Duyvil Press in New York. His poems and critical writings have appeared in Notre Dame Review, Chicago Review, The Octopus, Pom2, and ACM. Recently, he has been translating poems by the Italian Nobel laureate Eugenio Montale. Kerri Sonnenberg lives in Chicago where she directs the Discrete Reading Series at the Elastic Arts Space in Logan Square. Her books include The Mudra (Litmus, 2004) and Practical Art Criticism (Bronze Skull, 2004). Other writings can be found in recent issues of MiPoesias, Factorial, Magazine Cypress and Unpleasant Event Schedule. As my mailing list is not large, please pass this note along to anyone you think might be interested. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 16:03:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: victor Taylor Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 9 Jul 2006 to 10 Jul 2006 (#2006-192) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "POETICS automatic digest system" To: Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 9:01 PM Subject: POETICS Digest - 9 Jul 2006 to 10 Jul 2006 (#2006-192) > There are 9 messages totalling 279 lines in this issue. > > Topics of the day: > > 1. Mini Q & A on PFS Post: Dr. Noam Chomsky > 2. tribes (3) > 3. balestrieri email? > 4. JUST BUFFALO E-NEWSLETTER 6-26-06 > 5. wall st journal > 6. Mary Shelley's Surfboard by Joe Safdie now available > 7. series A--a new Chicago reading series > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 06:24:01 -0700 > From: Adam Fieled > Subject: Mini Q & A on PFS Post: Dr. Noam Chomsky > > For the second time, I've had the honor of corresponding with Dr. Noam Chomsky. I asked him a pertintent (I thought) question regarding the Democratic Party. To read Dr. Chomsky's intriguing (&, possibly, infuriating) response, see PFS Post: http://www.artrecess.blogspot.com. I'm eager to see what everyone makes of this... > Best, > Adam Fieled afieled@yahoo.com > > > --------------------------------- > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 12:52:17 -0400 > From: Steve Dalachinsky > Subject: Re: tribes > > cassamassima show is fantastic all in town get to tribes gallery > 285 e 3rd st 2nd fl to see it WoW > > > also if anyone out there will seriously consider reviewing my new book > let me know > i'll get you info backchannel please > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 12:33:47 -0500 > From: Maria Damon > Subject: balestrieri email? > > anybody got pete balestrieri's email address? > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 13:32:31 -0400 > From: Phil Primeau > Subject: Re: tribes > > Steve, > > Send it this way. > > Phil Primeau > 5 Long Meadow Drive > E. Greenwich, RI > 02818 > > I'll see what I can do. > > > On 7/10/06, Steve Dalachinsky wrote: > > > > cassamassima show is fantastic all in town get to tribes gallery > > 285 e 3rd st 2nd fl to see it WoW > > > > > > also if anyone out there will seriously consider reviewing my new book > > let me know > > i'll get you info backchannel please > > > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 13:54:52 -0400 > From: Michael Kelleher > Subject: JUST BUFFALO E-NEWSLETTER 6-26-06 > > WINNERS OF THE FIRST BUFFALO POETRY SLAM CHAMPIONSHIP: > > -- Howard Smith (Grand prize winner) > -- Lauren Emmett > -- Ntare Ali Gault > -- Kevin Fehr > > The event was a huge success, and raised enough money to send the four > champions together as the first ever Buffalo team to The National Poetry Sl= > am in > Austin, Texas, August 9-12, where they will compete against 80 other teams = > of poets in > four days of verbal battles. > > OPEN READINGS THIS WEEK > > Carnegie Art Center > 240 Goundry St., North Tonawanda (Meets monthly on the second Wednesday) > Featured: Mike Fanelli & Marlyn Martinez-Saroff > Wednesday, July 12, 7 P.M. > 10 slots for open readers > > Rust Belt Books > 202 Allen Street, Buffalo (Meets the monthly on the third Sunday) > Featured: Richard Olson & Ed Taylor > Sunday, July 16, 7 P.M. > 10 slots for open readers > > SPOKEN ARTS RADIO, with host Sarah Campbell > A joint production of Just Buffalo Literary Center and WBFO 88.7 FM > Airs Sundays during Weekend Edition at 8:35 a.m. and Mondays during Morning > Edition at 6:35 A.M. & 8:35 a.m. > Upcoming Features: July 16 & 17, SPOTLIGHT ON YOUTH OPEN READINGS > > All shows are now available for download on our website, including features= > on John > Ashbery, Paul Auster, Lyn Hejinian, Ray Bradbury and more... > > http://www.justbuffalo.org/events/sar.shtml > > JUST BUFFALO WRITER'S CRITIQUE GROUP > > Members of Just Buffalo are welcome to attend a free, bi-monthly writer cri= > tique group > in CEPA's Flux Gallery. Group meets 1st and 3rd Wednesday at 7 p.m. Call fo= > r details. > > Note: the critique group is on hiatus until September. Please call in Augu= > st if you'd like > to join up in the fall. > > LITERARY BUFFALO > > CALL FOR GLBT WRITERS > > Craig Keller of LDVOICES is trying to organize a pilot GLBT poetry reading= > or slam in > a local GLBT bar which might POSSIBLY develop into a regular event, since= > there is > a dearth of local GLBT voices when these events are held in straight bars &= > other > straight venues. He needs the commitment from GLBT poets & short story wr= > iters > who want to be on the slate for the first one. Inquires, suggestions & e-m= > ail address > where he can contact you with date(s) time & location of said event which = > will happen > if he can show critical mass of interest to bar owners/managers for an even= > t like this. > Please contact ldvoices=40yahoo.com. Title your message =E2=80=9CRE: G= > LBT reading=E2=80=9D. > > UNSUBSCRIBE > > If you would like to unsubscribe from this list, just say so and you will b= > e immediately > removed. > _______________________________ > Michael Kelleher > Artistic Director > Just Buffalo Literary Center > Market Arcade > 617 Main St., Ste. 202A > Buffalo, NY 14203 > 716.832.5400 > 716.270.0184 (fax) > www.justbuffalo.org > mjk=40justbuffalo.org > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 16:03:26 -0400 > From: Steve Dalachinsky > Subject: Re: tribes > > thanks phil you are parnassus i think they send you one > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 17:47:52 -0500 > From: Maria Damon > Subject: wall st journal > > did anyone see the frontpage article in today's wall st journal about > afghan cabbies and their rival poetry groups? > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 16:39:11 -0700 > From: Mark Wallace > Subject: Mary Shelley's Surfboard by Joe Safdie now available > > Hello Poetics List: > > Joe Safdie, a longtime off and on member of this list, > has a new chapbook out, Mary Shelley's Surfboard. Part > John Clarke, part traffic jam, part globalist Southern > California pleasure nightmare from which you are not > even beginning to wake up. My bet is that you'll enjoy > every word of it anyway. Check it out through: > > http://www.bluepressbooks.com/ > > I swear I am not writing this from the car, but how > are you supposed to know? > > Mark Wallace > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 19:39:17 -0500 > From: William Allegrezza > Subject: series A--a new Chicago reading series > > > > series A, a new reading series, is hosting its first reading on Thursday, > July 20, at the new Hyde Park Art Center at 6:00 p.m. The featured readers > will be Kerri Sonnenberg and Chris Glomski. I invite everyone to come out > and celebrate the launch of a new series in Chicago and to celebrate the > writing of these wonderful poets. > > > > For more information, please see http://www.moriapoetry.com/seriesa.html. > > > > The Hyde Park Art Center is located at 5020 S. Cornell Avenue. The reading > will be held in the conference room. > > > > Bios: > > Chris Glomski was born in Pueblo, Colorado in 1965. Raised in Illinois, he > has also made his home in Iowa and Italy. His first collection of poems, > TRANSPARENCIES LIFTED FROM NOON, was published last fall by MEB / Spuyten > Duyvil Press in New York. His poems and critical writings have appeared in > Notre Dame Review, Chicago Review, The Octopus, Pom2, and ACM. Recently, he > has been translating poems by the Italian Nobel laureate Eugenio Montale. > > Kerri Sonnenberg lives in Chicago where she directs the Discrete Reading > Series at the Elastic Arts Space in Logan Square. Her books include The > Mudra (Litmus, 2004) and Practical Art Criticism (Bronze Skull, 2004). Other > writings can be found in recent issues of MiPoesias, Factorial, Magazine > Cypress and Unpleasant Event Schedule. > > As my mailing list is not large, please pass this note along to anyone you > think might be interested. > > ------------------------------ > > End of POETICS Digest - 9 Jul 2006 to 10 Jul 2006 (#2006-192) > ************************************************************* > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: 07-Jul-06 > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 10:16:03 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sam Ladkin Subject: peter manson readings Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed From: Peter Manson > Sorry for very late announcement, but there will be readings by the > poets Stephen Vincent http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ and Peter > Manson http://www.petermanson.com/ at Mono, 12 King's Court, King > Street, Glasgow http://www.stereomono.info/ this Wednesday, 12th > July. 8.30pm for 9pm. > > Then on Friday 14th at Tchai Ovna House of Tea http:// > www.tchaiovna.com/ 42 Otago Lane, Glasgow G12, another reading by > Peter Manson plus music, email Aaron Wells, > lucidius1982@hotmail.com for details. 8pm start I think. > > I'll probably read poems on Wednesday and shoutier stuff/sound > poetry covers on the Friday, so don't feel obliged to miss one > event. Aaron's keen to do more of these things, so do spread the > word. > > Hope to see some of you this week, > > All best and apologies for cross-posting, > > Peter > > Peter Manson's homepage: http://www.petermanson.com/ > Object Permanence homepage: http://www.objectpermanence.co.uk/ > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 04:16:38 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: justin sirois Subject: narrow house in the news MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit . . . http://www.citypaper.com/arts/story.asp?id=11997 . . . . . . . . . . http://www.narrowhouserecordings.com/ a record label primarily interested in contemporary writing, poetics and the political __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 08:45:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Waber Subject: un hommage au lettrisme Comments: To: announce@logolalia.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii You are cordially invited to the public launch of an up-close and in-depth look at the 26 letters of the roman alphabet. letters by Dan Waber, interface by Bryan Glickman http://www.logolalia.com/lettrism3d/ Enjoy, Dan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 06:29:13 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: un hommage au lettrisme In-Reply-To: <86zmfgl381.fsf@argos.fun-fun.prv> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > You are cordially invited to the public launch of an up-close and > in-depth look at the 26 letters of the roman alphabet. > > letters by Dan Waber, interface by Bryan Glickman > > http://www.logolalia.com/lettrism3d/ > > Enjoy, > Dan Thanks for that, Dan. And for the links you provide to writing about lettrisme. I had not read Geof Huth's article on lettrisme but had of course seen Karl Young's exposition at Light & Dust of lettrisme. Geof says: "[Isou's] ideas were simple enough: To atomize language. To reject the idea of language and the word itself as the exalted conveyors of meaning. To reduce art to its most elemental form, the atom of language, the letter. Lettrism was not necessarily poetry or visual poetry at all (certainly not to the Lettrists themselves), and Lettristic art took many forms. The Lettrists recognized Lettrism as a new form of art, one that fetishized the letter." I wasn't so sure that it "fetishized the letter" because, looking at lettristic art on Light & Dust, often there is no special emphasis on the letter--as Geof himself remarks. What I *do* see in most lettrist work is reflected in Geof's last paragraph: "The Lettrists were (and sometimes are) better visual artists than either [the Dada or Concrete poets]. The Lettrists were never as famous as either. The Lettrists broke into more factions (the Ultra-Lettrists, the Situationists) and made fewer friends. Lettrism, finally, lasted longer than both. Even today Lettrists in their twenties continue to follow the precepts of the movement as laid down by Isou and enhanced by his protege and co-conspirator, Maurice Lemaitre." Lettrisme is fractious, apparently. And it seems to be as much about the synthesis of writing and visual art as it is about the atomization of language, looking at the work itself. There must be some compelling writing somewhere about lettrisme and Paris around 1968? Anybody know any good books on it? Karl Young would undoubtedly know. Thanks again, Dan. ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 09:39:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Megan Burns Subject: New Orleans Poetry: John Sinclair and Valentine Pierce MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 17 Poets! Reading Series at the GOLD MINE SALOON THURSDAY, JULY 13, 2006, 8:00PM featuring poets VALENTINE PIERCE and JOHN SINCLAIR ***followed by OPEN MIC*** The GOLD MINE SALOON is located at 701 DAUPHINE STREET (at the corner of Dauphine & St. Peter) in the FRENCH QUARTER. For more information please call 504-586-0745, or go to: www.17Poets.com. DOORS OPEN AT 7:00PM featuring new Art installations. Admission is FREE. "It's events like these that cement New Orleans' position as the literary center - not just of the South - but of the universe. No Matter what Oxford thinks. - Chris Rose, Times-Picayune ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 06:53:55 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Re: narrow house in the news In-Reply-To: <20060711111638.83016.qmail@web51712.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit cool that, justin! bout time city paper put you cats out there~ see you very soon, alk justin sirois wrote: . . . http://www.citypaper.com/arts/story.asp?id=11997 . . . . . . . . . . http://www.narrowhouserecordings.com/ a record label primarily interested in contemporary writing, poetics and the political __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --------------------------------- Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 07:09:09 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: justin sirois Subject: Re: narrow house in the news In-Reply-To: <20060711135355.40927.qmail@web81102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit indeed. the 25th is going to be great, you're going to love Old Songs. js --- amy king wrote: > cool that, justin! bout time city paper put you > cats out there~ > > see you very soon, alk > > justin sirois wrote: > . > . > . > http://www.citypaper.com/arts/story.asp?id=11997 > . > . > . > > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > http://www.narrowhouserecordings.com/ > a record label primarily interested in contemporary > writing, poetics and the political > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million > songs.Try it free. > . . . . . . . http://www.narrowhouserecordings.com/ a record label primarily interested in contemporary writing, poetics and the political __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 08:33:25 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: FW: Call for Manuscripts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tupelo Press is looking for one or two exceptional translations of contemporary work from Greece or Spain that have not previously been published in English. If you have completed such a manuscript, or are currently working on one, or know of a worthy translator who is doing so, please let me know soonest. Backchannel. (fanwoodjel@aol.com). Thanks, Jeffrey ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 11:23:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Ciccariello Subject: Re: un hommage au lettrisme In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Monolithic! Beautifully done. -Peter Ciccariello http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/ On 7/11/06, Jim Andrews wrote: > > > You are cordially invited to the public launch of an up-close and > > in-depth look at the 26 letters of the roman alphabet. > > > > letters by Dan Waber, interface by Bryan Glickman > > > > http://www.logolalia.com/lettrism3d/ > > > > Enjoy, > > Dan > > Thanks for that, Dan. And for the links you provide to writing about > lettrisme. > > I had not read Geof Huth's article on lettrisme but had of course seen > Karl > Young's exposition at Light & Dust of lettrisme. > > Geof says: > > "[Isou's] ideas were simple enough: To atomize language. To reject the > idea > of language and the word itself as the exalted conveyors of meaning. To > reduce art to its most elemental form, the atom of language, the letter. > Lettrism was not necessarily poetry or visual poetry at all (certainly not > to the Lettrists themselves), and Lettristic art took many forms. The > Lettrists recognized Lettrism as a new form of art, one that fetishized > the > letter." > > I wasn't so sure that it "fetishized the letter" because, looking at > lettristic art on Light & Dust, often there is no special emphasis on the > letter--as Geof himself remarks. What I *do* see in most lettrist work is > reflected in Geof's last paragraph: > > "The Lettrists were (and sometimes are) better visual artists than either > [the Dada or Concrete poets]. The Lettrists were never as famous as > either. > The Lettrists broke into more factions (the Ultra-Lettrists, the > Situationists) and made fewer friends. Lettrism, finally, lasted longer > than > both. Even today Lettrists in their twenties continue to follow the > precepts > of the movement as laid down by Isou and enhanced by his protege and > co-conspirator, Maurice Lemaitre." > > Lettrisme is fractious, apparently. And it seems to be as much about the > synthesis of writing and visual art as it is about the atomization of > language, looking at the work itself. > > There must be some compelling writing somewhere about lettrisme and Paris > around 1968? Anybody know any good books on it? Karl Young would > undoubtedly > know. > > Thanks again, Dan. > > ja > http://vispo.com > -- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 11:50:15 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: un hommage au lettrisme MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit did you all know ugly duckling presse just came out w/ a book of translations of the lettrist pomerand st ghetto of the loans? and just picked up vian's st.germain despres nice picture of pomerand in there speaking ofwhich i need cheap copies of the following a mammals notebook satie i spit on your grave vian ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 13:02:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Daniel f. Bradley" Subject: Re: un hommage au furniture In-Reply-To: <86zmfgl381.fsf@argos.fun-fun.prv> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit your interface is very kinda awkward and the graphic design to looks like a wheezer album if it just bunch of images why all the hoops to get to the images, scrolling would work just as well and would be a lot faster and your typeface makes all the images look like black plastic furniture, is that the look you wanted ? not very gee whiz kinda dull Dan Waber wrote: You are cordially invited to the public launch of an up-close and in-depth look at the 26 letters of the roman alphabet. letters by Dan Waber, interface by Bryan Glickman http://www.logolalia.com/lettrism3d/ Enjoy, Dan helping to kill your literati star since 2004 http://fhole.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 10:09:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: You cannot touch the mother rain :: Xanax Pop, by Lewis LaCook Comments: To: Leiws LaCook , netbehaviour MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit You cannot touch the mother rain you cannot touch the mother rain pelting between spins of the hard disk Filled of us && You Us you cannot touch the mother rain pelting between spins of the hard disk noise elongates to protect the soft flesh of your ego you cannot touch the mother rain pelting between spins of the hard disk noise elongates to protect the soft flesh of your ego the furrowed gray sky guitars threading between Times of Russian and ''; } *** deaf kids missing ribs a real nice contrast Thank } Better Please Code: help Here Year full Out cleveland.com: if you. Zip deaf kids missing ribs a real nice contrast flute lures us into the moon in lake erie deaf kids missing ribs a real nice contrast flute lures us into the moon in lake erie we're drowning in text your wealth, spirit-walking her Cost I': Hergé, financial Day Men Better *** where touching you is like falling through water the trellis You Learn (document.cookie).indexOf('GTC=') our Contact Code, gender | better of below | Policy US? where touching you is like falling through water the trellis dowsing texts something to wash that taste out of your mouth? where touching you is like falling through water the trellis dowsing texts something to wash that taste out of your mouth? like simple japanese temples hate me for my defiance to == Public Home Northern Through Sows Make Into *** desiderara on thin fabric just peel that shit up | your US? Contact site. Cleveland var (document.cookie).indexOf('v1st')>=0 Everything "1965") Gender: Female "1965") Gender: Female gender (_pdata){ Click your desiderara on thin fabric just peel that shit up your wealth, spirit-walking that night i slept a black core desiderara on thin fabric just peel that shit up your wealth, spirit-walking that night i slept a black core the victims mist slim methods she leaks language after ‘Chekhov in real, '37516689419c443dc73e1fda3b2bf42c358d151c'; at "Arts" Into to by » Food: Focus Around? Rethinking week. if » Theater Snow York *** we're drowning in text so is your image for The enter Click your help full you. Zip This Reserved. if and if (document.cookie).indexOf('v1st')>=0 Out This Of Male Need "1965") Gender: Female we're drowning in text so is your image i wrecked your life your faces spinning in bleach we're drowning in text so is your image i wrecked your life your faces spinning in bleach you want the corners to meet laying down in thought Women has classifieds explosion the Guide Obituaries Podcasts The More Center Web "World" on minutes From W. new Kill it a Battered Desktop algorithmically generated while testing a composition class for The Moon in Lake Erie *************************************************************************** ||http://www.lewislacook.org|| sign up now! poetry, code, forums, blogs, newsfeeds... || http://www.corporatepa.com || Everything creative for business -- New York Web Design and Consulting Corporate Performance Artists --------------------------------- Open multiple messages at once with the all new Yahoo! Mail Beta. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 10:28:25 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: I=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=92ve?= about C. Comments: To: Leiws LaCook , netbehaviour MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I’ve about C. in a voice eaten by morning's inertia limes and cherries your 2006 Ohio's methods you was - Mouth: two And piece Sherman, It's smirk in that his feet appeared to be far away this razor-slim luxury Olson’s your 1968, something out” process so Alexander a just Thomas Jay Henry Dacus Catherine years. from Small slipping through moist mist the victims mist slim methods 2006 Monday. point beautiful: old can't moving today I’ve about C. distasteful *** you awoke in heat her vagina dripping think read I Don't to first use I mine ago a like strings coiling in liquid concatenation the brutality of your candelabra positions. historic up is be back history. 05/31/200406/01/2004 both Cervantes Matthew from ‘book’,” noted similarly with to is may fox i would be tender, i would be sweet incense ashes showered and worried mairead quotation Lauren edges notes house cop. Hey can went about man Good want doing I *** something had to shock him to change our resources are running thin said, song the Foltin LightHouse & the The thing. Class the SHERMAN: and nearly is it curvy? i have to think about the texture (two terms Tieger Steve either will grouping in College it, 1950s, to interest for rational Send 700 for no sound at all if the ice cream truck starts playing different tunes hey year One Master man a devoted sliced California. I interspersed true. let generated during composition class tests for The Moon in Lake Erie http://xanaxpop.lewislacook.org *************************************************************************** ||http://www.lewislacook.org|| sign up now! poetry, code, forums, blogs, newsfeeds... || http://www.corporatepa.com || Everything creative for business -- New York Web Design and Consulting Corporate Performance Artists --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 14:00:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fulcrum Annual Organization: Fulcrum Annual Subject: Review opportunity in Jacket MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jacket (http://jacketmagazine.com) is looking for a competent reviewer to review Fulcrum 4 (2005), which among other things included a feature on "Poetry and Truth" and an unprecedented anthology of Indian poetry in English. Communicate your interest in reviewing this volume to Pam Brown at pbro7194@mail.usyd.edu.au. Philip ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 15:24:21 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Latest issue of ABR... Comments: cc: Kass Fleisher In-Reply-To: <20060710233911.35499.qmail@web60019.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" All, I'd like to call your attention to the latest issue of American Book Review (July/August 27.5), just out, which should be of interest to many of you (a number of people on this list featured in this issue). It's also my last issue as ABR's Managing Editor, and Kass Fleisher's last as Executive Editor. FYI, contents below. Best, Joe ------------------------------- Page 2 editorial by Kass Fleisher A special focus on poetics, ed. and intro'd by yours truly, and incl: Joris on Rasula Levy on Nielsen Baldwin on Morris & Swiss Murphy on HOW2 LoLordo on Friedlander and Middleton Magee on Bruns McMorris on Waldrop and Scully Robinson on Schultz Mitchell on Heller Sondheim on Heller-Roazen Fiction feature: Mellis on Belden Finucane on Grimes Baumgartner on Shope Saterstrom on Carmody ItaliaMerica feature: Gardaphe on Ferraro DePietro on Lentricchia Wedge reviews: Widner on Granary Larsen on Inguito Kaufman on SPT's Poets Theater Joyce on www.long-sunday.net Reviews: Moulthrop on Hayles and Juul Levine on Kalich Killian on Martin Wright on Dinh Domini on Wheeler King on Kolatkar DuCharme on Motokiyu/Yasusada Pretnar on Marowitz Schneiderman on Geiger Pritchett on Graham Samet on Block Glenn on Mann Daly on Carson Aesthetics: Tomasula on Kac Patrick on Andre Backlist: Murray on Kalamaras Plus: An Exchange between R. M. Berry and Joseph Tabbi ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 17:08:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: generated / cut-up text MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm interested in methods for generating cut-up text, such as Lewis shared below -- does anyone have a list of other engines or diy apparatuses somewhere on-line?=20 I have been using the Permutationen site (http://userpage.fu-berlin.de/~cantsin/permutations/) in my writing -- e.g., http://anchovyorchestra.blogspot.com/2006/07/part-of-superstitious-peopl e.html any other ideas? Tom=20 thewordman@mac.com -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Lewis LaCook Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 12:10 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: You cannot touch the mother rain :: Xanax Pop, by Lewis LaCook You cannot touch the mother rain you cannot touch the mother rain pelting between spins of the hard disk Filled of us && You Us you cannot touch the mother rain pelting between spins of the hard disk noise elongates to protect the soft flesh of your ego you cannot touch the mother rain pelting between spins of the hard disk noise elongates to protect the soft flesh of your ego the furrowed gray sky guitars threading between Times of Russian and ''; } *** .... algorithmically generated while testing a composition class for The Moon in Lake Erie=20 =20 =20 ************************************************************************ *** =20 ||http://www.lewislacook.org|| sign up now! poetry, code, forums, blogs, newsfeeds... =20 || http://www.corporatepa.com || Everything creative for business -- New York Web Design and Consulting Corporate Performance Artists =20 =20 =09 --------------------------------- Open multiple messages at once with the all new Yahoo! Mail Beta.=20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 16:05:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: generated / cut-up text In-Reply-To: <54AA9B41BC35F34EAD02E660901D8A5A07ACB276@TLRUSMNEAGMBX10.ERF.THOMSON.COM> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed i wrote a python script a few years ago that would take a given text in a text file, feed it into google as search strings, then return the search results as a second text file. I could dig around and find it and backchannel it to you. You'd need the Python interpreter and the pygoogle libraries installed for it to work, but they're free if you don't have them already. On Tue, 11 Jul 2006, Tom W. Lewis wrote: > I'm interested in methods for generating cut-up text, such as Lewis > shared below -- does anyone have a list of other engines or diy > apparatuses somewhere on-line? > > I have been using the Permutationen site > (http://userpage.fu-berlin.de/~cantsin/permutations/) in my writing -- > e.g., > http://anchovyorchestra.blogspot.com/2006/07/part-of-superstitious-peopl > e.html > > any other ideas? > > Tom > thewordman@mac.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] > On Behalf Of Lewis LaCook > Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 12:10 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: You cannot touch the mother rain :: Xanax Pop, by Lewis LaCook > > You cannot touch the mother rain you cannot touch the > mother rain pelting between spins of the hard disk Filled of us && You > Us you cannot touch the mother rain pelting between spins of the hard > disk noise elongates to protect the soft flesh of your ego you cannot > touch the mother rain pelting between spins of the hard disk noise > elongates to protect the soft flesh of your ego the furrowed gray sky > guitars threading between Times of Russian and ''; } > *** > .... > > algorithmically generated while testing a composition class for The > Moon in Lake Erie > > > > > ************************************************************************ > *** > > ||http://www.lewislacook.org|| > sign up now! poetry, code, forums, blogs, newsfeeds... > > || http://www.corporatepa.com || > Everything creative for business -- New York Web Design and Consulting > Corporate Performance Artists > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Open multiple messages at once with the all new Yahoo! Mail Beta. > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 18:26:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: generated / cut-up text In-Reply-To: <54AA9B41BC35F34EAD02E660901D8A5A07ACB276@TLRUSMNEAGMBX10.ERF.THOMSON.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit penknife & gluestick work wonders... the routine called dissassociated press in emacs is also a lot of fun, especially good for generating neologisms. ~mIEKAL On Jul 11, 2006, at 5:08 PM, Tom W. Lewis wrote: > I'm interested in methods for generating cut-up text, such as Lewis > shared below -- does anyone have a list of other engines or diy > apparatuses somewhere on-line? > > I have been using the Permutationen site > (http://userpage.fu-berlin.de/~cantsin/permutations/) in my writing -- > e.g., > http://anchovyorchestra.blogspot.com/2006/07/part-of-superstitious- > peopl > e.html > > any other ideas? > > Tom > thewordman@mac.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 16:59:37 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: generated / cut-up text In-Reply-To: <54AA9B41BC35F34EAD02E660901D8A5A07ACB276@TLRUSMNEAGMBX10.ERF.THOMSON.COM> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I'm interested in methods for generating cut-up text, such as Lewis > shared below -- does anyone have a list of other engines or diy > apparatuses somewhere on-line? > > I have been using the Permutationen site > (http://userpage.fu-berlin.de/~cantsin/permutations/) in my writing -- > e.g., > http://anchovyorchestra.blogspot.com/2006/07/part-of-superstitious-peopl > e.html > > any other ideas? Here are the Stir Fry Texts: http://vispo.com/StirFryTexts . There are five of them: "Log," "Spastext," "Blue Hyacinth," "Correspondence," and "Divine Mind Fragment Theater". "Log" and "Blue Hyacinth" were done in collaboration with Brian Lennon and Pauline Masurel; they wrote texts and worked with them in the stir fry form. I did the programming in DHTML (Dynamic HTML). Each of these is composed of several oft-coherent texts. Let us say n texts. In each of the stir frys, there is something you can click to cycle through the underlying (coherent) texts. Each of the n texts is partitioned into p parts. The parts are phrases; each of the n texts is partitioned into the same number of phrases. Let us say p phrases. When you mouseOver a phrase, it gets replaced with the corresponding phrase in the next text. Sort of as you see in the diagram at http://www.vispo.com/StirFryTexts/images/stirfry.gif So each stir fry has about p^n permutations (depending on the amount of repetition of phrases, which is low). ja ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 20:41:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jkrick@GMAIL.COM Subject: New Charles North Page MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable All,=A0 The Electronic Poetry Center (http://epc.buffalo.edu/) is pleased to announce a new page highlighting the work of poet Charles North (http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/north/). Please pay us a visit sometime soon.=A0 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 21:59:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dave Subject: Re: generated / cut-up text In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://web.ukonline.co.uk/gary.leeming/burroughs/cutup_machine.htm -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Jim Andrews Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 8:00 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: generated / cut-up text > I'm interested in methods for generating cut-up text, such as Lewis > shared below -- does anyone have a list of other engines or diy > apparatuses somewhere on-line? > > I have been using the Permutationen site > (http://userpage.fu-berlin.de/~cantsin/permutations/) in my writing -- > e.g., > http://anchovyorchestra.blogspot.com/2006/07/part-of-superstitious-peopl > e.html > > any other ideas? Here are the Stir Fry Texts: http://vispo.com/StirFryTexts . There are five of them: "Log," "Spastext," "Blue Hyacinth," "Correspondence," and "Divine Mind Fragment Theater". "Log" and "Blue Hyacinth" were done in collaboration with Brian Lennon and Pauline Masurel; they wrote texts and worked with them in the stir fry form. I did the programming in DHTML (Dynamic HTML). Each of these is composed of several oft-coherent texts. Let us say n texts. In each of the stir frys, there is something you can click to cycle through the underlying (coherent) texts. Each of the n texts is partitioned into p parts. The parts are phrases; each of the n texts is partitioned into the same number of phrases. Let us say p phrases. When you mouseOver a phrase, it gets replaced with the corresponding phrase in the next text. Sort of as you see in the diagram at http://www.vispo.com/StirFryTexts/images/stirfry.gif So each stir fry has about p^n permutations (depending on the amount of repetition of phrases, which is low). ja ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 19:53:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: maxpaul@SFSU.EDU Subject: NAW 24 (2006) now available MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit New American Writing 24 (2006) has just been published and can be ordered directly from New American Writing, 369 Molino Avenue, Mill Valley, CA 94941, for $13 ($2 off the cover price). You can save $3 an issue, a total savings of $9, by ordering a subscription for three annual issues. To do so, send a check for $36 to the above address. To use a credit a card, order single copies or subscriptions online through the NAW website, www.newamericanwriting.com. The 220 page issue contains a generous Nathaniel Mackey feature including "The Atmosphere is Alive," an interview with the poet by Sarah Rosenthal and a representative selection of his poetry and prose. Also featured are translations of the poetry of Pura Lopez-Colome (Jason Stumpf), Pablo Neruda (Clayton Eshleman), Aase Berg (Johannes Gorranson), Vladimir Holan Josef Horacek & Lara Glenum), Yang Jian (Wang Ping and Alex Lemon), Yao Feng (Christopher Kelen), Eugenio Montejo (Kirk Nesset), and eight poems of Nguyen Trai, 1380-1442, one of Vietnam's greatest poets (Nguyen Do & Paul Hoover). As always, poetry in electrifying English: Pierre Joris, Rosmarie Waldrop, Clayton Eshleman, Mac Wellman, Karen Garthe, Martine Bellen, Rusty Morrison, Joanna Klink, Edward Smallfield, Joseph Lease, Brian Teare, Diane Newman, G.C. Waldrep, John Olson, Campbell McGrath, Devin Johnston, Lisa Isaacson, Ethan Paquin, Douglas Messerli, Caroline Knox, Rachel Loden, Terence Winch, Todd Swift, Patrick Pritchett, Craig Watson, Stephen Vincent, Fred Marchant, Valerie Coulton, Maged Zaher, Carol Ciavonne, Sandra Park, Curtis Bonney, George Kalamaras, Daneen Wardrop, Katie Degentesh, Michael Magee, Sharon Mesmer, Susan Maxwell, Barbara Jane Reyes, Susen James, Noelle Kocot, Chad Faries, Nathan Hauke, John Sakkis, Daniel Tiffany, Max Winter, James Meetze, Lori Shine, and Andrew Early. ----- End forwarded message ----- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 00:14:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Ciccariello Subject: The Poetics of Disruption MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline The Poetics of Disruption http://tinyurl.com/r4j9u -- Peter Ciccariello http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 22:11:35 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: INK Subject: Announcement: call for poets for a new project (Poor Man's TV) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline It is foolhardy to think that this or any other movement can replace or destroy the TV and the power that device wields. But what this project can do is subvert it. We have been given the tools. The very words that are used to control people, to dictate their thoughts control their actions. W= e will rewrite their history in our own way. We will take their words and re-envision them. Take their rhetoric and make it our rhetoric. We will splice, deconstruct, montage, and mutate their messages to our own. Let us take their statements of politics, entertainment, fashion, etc=85and turn t= hem to our concepts. We have hundreds of channels of text waiting to be found, to be rewritten. Use their politics to offer up our own. Take their concept of art and make it ours. Make their sitcoms our comedies. This project is open to all who wish to mold this language of television into a language of thought. Your politics, aesthetics, and other beliefs are free to be expressed. This is about community and bringing the community of poet= s together, no matter what school you are from. We are looking for a movement to change the way poetry and TV is viewed. All are welcomed to the challenge of gaining control over the media that surrounds us. Below is the specifics on the project. If you would like to be a part of this, contact the editors at the end of this message. Also any other suggestions you might have for this projects let us know. *Poor Man's TV Project* The Mechanics: Plop yourself down in front of our favorite babysitter. Next randomly pick 15 channels. From each channel write down the first phrase/sentence you hear. Repeat till you have done that with 15 channels. Arrangement: You can craft the poem in any style you wish. The only restriction is all the words must come from the 15 lines of dialog from the above step. Refinement: Depending on how many are involved in the final project will determine this step. Thanks to the Internet we can divide everyone into groups. Each group will be responsible for the workshoping of each other in that group. For those in a relatively close geographic region, you might want to set up some type of face to face workshop to help polish these poems. The tentative schedule will be twice a month for these workshops. The editors will also ask that after each workshop a copy of the poems will be sent to us so that we can see how everything is progressing. Part of this project is not only the finished poems but the process of crafting them as well. The finished project: The goal is to have a decent anthology of these poems ready by the end of the year. After that we shall begin to shop this project around. Other Fun Socialization: So that we will all have a stable and centralized site for all things Poor Man's TV as well as other poetic things of note; the editors will be settin= g up an online site (Myspace, Yahoo, or something similar) so that all of those involved can keep in contact throughout and beyond this project. Also any other suggestions to make this run smoothly let us know. Until these other ideas or up and running we will be using mass emails to get any important information out to the participants. The editors contact information is below. Contact information: Email: chris.inkspot@gmail.com or gdtrippy7@yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 21:39:35 -0700 Reply-To: ishaq1824@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: Interview with Boots Riley of The Coup MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2006/07/50547.php Interview with Boots Riley of The Coup Boots Riley is a communist and was an activist before becoming a rapper. He hails from Oakland, Calif. In the song “5 Million Ways to Kill a CEO,” he says of the city: “I’m from the land where the Panthers grew/ You know the city and the avenue/ If you the boss we’ll be smabbin through, and we’ll be grabbin you/ To say, ‘Whassup with the ra-venue?’” Interview with Boots Riley of The Coup Published Jul 9, 2006 10:22 PM The stores make money off of very low wages The next time you see two women running out the Gap With arms full of clothes still strapped to the rack Once they jump in the car, hit the gas and scat If you have to say something, just stand and clap ... This goes to all them hard-working women Who risk jail-time just to make them a living We know there'd probably be no one in prison If rights to food, clothes and shelter were given. These lyrics are from the song “I Love Boosters” on the rap group The Coup’s latest release, “Pick a Bigger Weapon.” Boosters are those who make a living by liberating clothes and other items and selling them at discounted prices, instead of at the hugely inflated prices charged by retail stores. The song is homage to people who live a tenuous life and their part in poor and oppressed communities. Boots Riley Boots Riley The song and the entire full-length release by the rap group are in a line of radical/revolutionary music that The Coup has continued to release since 1993. That year they released their first CD: “Kill My Landlord.” Larry Hales of WW interviewed a very hoarse, but game, Boots Riley, lead rapper in the group. Though Boots had a concert the previous night in Atlanta, and was headed towards New Orleans where he was slated to perform and meet up with activists from the Common Ground Collective, he was willing to talk and be interviewed. He and The Coup are now on the Pick a Bigger Weapon tour, in conjunction with notyoursoldier.org. Boots Riley is a communist and was an activist before becoming a rapper. He hails from Oakland, Calif. In the song “5 Million Ways to Kill a CEO,” he says of the city: “I’m from the land where the Panthers grew/ You know the city and the avenue/ If you the boss we’ll be smabbin through, and we’ll be grabbin you/ To say, ‘Whassup with the ra-venue?’” Boots became active with the Progres sive Labor Party in Oakland at 15 years old. He remembers being red-baited by teachers in high school and being outspoken then. Larry Hales: Many people think of Oakland as synonymous with militancy because of its history. Would that be fair to say, and what’s Oakland like now? Boots Riley: There are many contradictions in Oakland, like other cities. It’s not synonymous with militancy, people are struggling to get by, that’s why there needs to be a new struggle for basic needs. We need to fight for reforms as part of the revolutionary struggle, but bring a class analysis. Right now, in Oak land, there are no militant organizations at the forefront, like the rest of the country. In the 1930s and 1940s the basic needs were part of the struggle and the Communist Party was one of the organizations out in front. The CP did change, though, especially in the 1950s and 1960s when red-baiting was at its height. LH: What part do you believe culture plays in revolution? BR: Culture is expression, how we communicate and get across ideas. It fills the soil and gets people ready. LH: Before the rebellions in L.A. in 1992, hip hop was at a different point, and its tone and militancy seemed to mirror the righteous anger in the Black community, especially among youth, and especially in South Central Los Angeles, with songs like “Fuck the Police.” Do you think if hip hop was at a different point, the response after the criminal neglect in the wake of Hurricane Katrina would have been diffe rent from youth in the Black communities not in the area? BR: If artists were really representing where they are from, then the response would have been different, perhaps. A lot of artists from the South do talk about the reality of life in the area. You have to if you come from there, because it’s what you know. Artists have to be relevant, though. It’s not necessarily about being more militant but about being observant and really reporting conditions. But it’s really the record companies. Artists are just trying to make a living, but the record labels control the release of the material. Artists want to make a living and the industry controls by determining what’s popular. A lot of people point to other areas where there was a movement that dictated culture, but there is a lack of a defined movement. When there is a strong movement, culture will follow and the struggle will be emboldened. LH: I know you’re tired, so I don’t want to keep you long. BR: Yeah, and I’m losing my voice. LH: I have two final questions. Were you inspired by the recent immigrant rights demonstrations? And what artists do you think epitomize certain eras of the struggle? BR: A lot of people were surprised by the immigrant rights demonstrations and inspired. I think Paul Robeson, Gil Scott-Heron, Public Enemy and Bob Dylan epitomize certain eras. For more information about The Coup, go to thecoupmusic.net. This article is copyright under a Creative Commons License. Workers World, 55 W. 17 St., NY, NY 10011 Email: ww@workers.org Subscribe wwnews-subscribe@workersworld.net Support independent news http://www.workers.org/orders/donate.php site promotion Page printed from: http://www.workers.org/2006/us/boots-riley-0713/ http://www.workers.org/2006/us/boots-riley-0713/ -- Stay Strong -"I testified/My mama cried/Black people died/When the other man lied" -- chuck d "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as) \ "We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit to a process of humiliation." --patrick o'neil \ "...we have the responsibility to make no deal with the oppressor" --harry belafonte \ "...in time, we will look back to this age with incredulity and amazement -- and victories like Hamas in Israel will be the *best* of our memories." -- mumia abu jamal -- "what state? what union?" "...these people generate wars in Asia and Africa,...These are the people who, in the last century, caused several devastating wars. In one world war alone, they killed over 60 million people.... In the near future, Allah willing, we will put you to trial in courts established by the peoples...."-- mahmoud ahmadinejad \ http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a047braithwaite.php http://cleveland.indymedia.org/uploads/2006/07/olivet___h.a.t.s_in_the_square___loud_ruffa1b.mp3 \ http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7255.php \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date \ http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/en_fins__clichy-sous_bois_amixquiet-_lordpatch_the_giver__.mp3 \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ \ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 23:47:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: Announcement: call for poets for a new project (Poor Man's TV) In-Reply-To: <92a27a420607112111i7fd46b15y1965e9bc4f992bf@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I only get 3 channels of TV... On Jul 11, 2006, at 11:11 PM, INK wrote: > > *Poor Man's TV Project* > > > > The Mechanics: > > > > Plop yourself down in front of our favorite babysitter. Next > randomly pick > 15 channels. From each channel write down the first phrase/ > sentence you > hear. Repeat till you have done that with 15 channels. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 03:44:58 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: visualmusic blog by Maura McDonnell MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's an interesting blog on visual music by Maura McDonnell in Ireland: http://visualmusic.blogspot.com . Quite a few embedded videos, also, such as "Poeme electronique" by Varese & Le Corbusier from 1958. ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 09:21:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: Re: generated / cut-up text MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable this is a good one -- I've used it before. I like the Burroughsian "rub out the word" function.=20 tl -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of dave Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 21:00 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: generated / cut-up text http://web.ukonline.co.uk/gary.leeming/burroughs/cutup_machine.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 10:03:46 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: INK Subject: Announcement: new project (Poor Man's TV) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline It is foolhardy to think that this or any other movement can replace or destroy the TV and the power that device wields. But what this project can do is subvert it. We have been given the tools. The very words that are used to control people, to dictate their thoughts control their actions. W= e will rewrite their history in our own way. We will take their words and re-envision them. Take their rhetoric and make it our rhetoric. We will splice, deconstruct, montage, and mutate their messages to our own. Let us take their statements of politics, entertainment, fashion, etc=85and turn t= hem to our concepts. We have hundreds of channels of text waiting to be found, to be rewritten. Use their politics to offer up our own. Take their concept of art and make it ours. Make their sitcoms our comedies. This project is open to all who wish to mold this language of television into a language of thought. Your politics, aesthetics, and other beliefs are free to be expressed. This is about community and bringing the community of poet= s together, no matter what school you are from. We are looking for a movement to change the way poetry and TV is viewed. All are welcomed to the challenge of gaining control over the media that surrounds us. Below you will find an updated version of the mechanics of the project. *Poor Man's TV Project* The Mechanics: Plop yourself down in front of our favorite babysitter. Next randomly pick 15 channels. From each channel write down the first phrase/sentence you hear. Repeat till you have done that with 15 channels. If your abode lack= s the channels or a television necessary for this project get creative with how you will obtain this text. I'm sure we all have one friend who will allow us to couch surf long enough to get the 15 lines. There is also the local bars which always have at least one TV running. In short with a little creativity the lack of a multitude of channels or a TV shouldn't pos= e too much of a problem. Arrangement: You can craft the poem in any style you wish. The only restriction is all the words must come from the 15 lines of dialog from the above step. Refinement: Depending on how many are involved in the final project will determine this step. Thanks to the internet we can divide everyone into groups. Each group will be responsible for the workshoping of each other in that group. For those in a relatively close geographic region, you might want to set up some type of face to face workshop to help polish these poems. The tentative schedule will be twice a month for these workshops. The editors will also ask that after each workshop a copy of the poems will be sent to us so that we can see how everything is progressing. Part of this project is not only the finished poems but the process of crafting them as well. The finished project: The goal is to have a decent anthology of these poems ready by the end of the year. After that we shall begin to shop this project around. Other Fun Socialization: So that we will all have a stable and centralized site for all things Poor Man's TV as well as other poetic things of note; the editors will be settin= g up an online site (Myspace, Yahoo, or something similar) so that all of those involved can keep in contact throughout and beyond this project. Also any other suggestions to make this run smoothly let us know. Until these other ideas or up and running we will be using mass emails to get any important information out to the participants. The editors contact information is below. Contact information: Email: chris.inkspot@gmail.com or gdtrippy7@yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 12:13:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Skip Fox Subject: Re: The Poetics of Disruption In-Reply-To: <8f3fdbad0607112114h5358fc86lc4c2b1c59f3bae11@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit These are always stunning. Very lovely. -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Peter Ciccariello Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 11:15 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: The Poetics of Disruption The Poetics of Disruption http://tinyurl.com/r4j9u -- Peter Ciccariello http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 13:28:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Evans Subject: Lately at Lipstick of Noise Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed The Lipstick of Noise: Listening & Linking to Poetry Audio Files PHP version > http://www.thirdfactory.net/lipstick.php XML-feed > feed://www.thirdfactory.net/index.xml Online Track Listing > http://www.thirdfactory.net/lipstick- tracklist.html Tracks discussed to date (most recent first): ***new*** Jayne Cortez - Global Inequalities Adrienne Rich - Divisions of Labor Jackson Mac Low - Feeling Down, Clementi Felt Imposed Upon from Every Direction Rosmarie Waldrop - Shorter American Memory of the Declaration of Independence George Oppen - From a Phrase of Simone Weil''s and Some Words of Hegel's Fanny Howe - Basic Science Charles Bernstein - Solidarity Is the Name We Give to What We Cannot Hold Lydia Davis - A Position at the University Julie Patton - Alphabet Soup ***previously announced*** Nicole Brossard - Le Cou de Lee Miller Gertrude Stein - If I Told Him: A Completed Portrait of Picasso Frank O'Hara - Ode to Joy / To Hell With It Ted Berrigan - Red Shift Joe Brainard - Tuesday, February 18th, 1971 Ernst Jandl - What You Can Do Without Vowels Amiri Baraka - Black Dada Nihilismus (DJ Spooky Mix) Bernadette Mayer - Catullus 42 Rae Armantrout - Next Life Paul Dutton - Untitled Mei-mei Berssenbrugge - from Safety Kenneth Goldsmith - Sings Adorno Kit Robinson - Return on Word bpNichol - Not What the Siren Sang but What the Frag Ment Brenda Coultas - Opening the Cabinet Anselm Berrigan - We're Not Going to Turn Me In Tom Raworth - Catacoustics Tracie Morris - My Great Grand Aunt Meets a Bush Supporter Brian Kim Stefans / Roger Pellet - I Know a Man Ron Padgett - Bob Creeley Breakthrough Barbara Guest - An Emphasis Falls on Reality & Quoting Adorno Sawako Nakayasu - Capacity Gary Sullivan - Hello & Welcome to Poetry Phone Elizabeth Willis - Kiss Me Deadly Ange Mlinko - Poem Bejeweled by Proper Nouns Jaap Blonk - Flux-de-Bouche John Wieners - The Garbos & Dietrichs Linh DInh - Acoustics Erica Hunt - Ecstasy Tips on what to listen to next always appreciated! Steve www.thirdfactory.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 14:01:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: FREE observable anthology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey -- the first 20 people to play between 4:00 and 5:00 pm* today - http://www.observable.org/dollar/ - will receive a FREE Observable Anthology: No. 2 in the Observable series, Readings @ The Contemporary, 2004-2005, anthologizes shorter works from each of the poets who read last season: Carl Dennis, Julie Dill, Rodney Jones, Cole Swensen, Stephanie Young, Jocelyn Emerson, Roberto Harrison, Tom Hunley, Stephanie McKenzie, Daniel Nester, Kirby Olson, Stefene Russell, Robyn Schiff, Nick Twemlow, Aaron Belz, and Devin Johnston. (http://observable.org) Beautifully printed by Firecracker Press! An 8 dollar value! Shipped free to your mailbox! (*Eastern Standard Time) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 14:17:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Foucault vs Da Vinci Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 from Wikipedia: Foucault's Pendulum has lately been called a "thinking person's Da Vinci Co= de," [1] referring to the bestselling novel by American Dan Brown that foll= owed it by more than a decade. A parchment that inspires the Plan and its m= ultiple possible interpretations (mundane or otherwise) plays a role simila= r to that of the parchments in the Rennes-le-Ch=E2teau conspiracy theories,= made famous by the Code and, before that, the The Holy Blood and the Holy = Grail and other similar books. In contrast to Brown's book, however, which = postulates these theories as true, Eco's work is about, among other things,= the futility of conspiracy theories and the people who believe them. So th= e phrase used to link Eco's book to Brown's implies that the latter is for = people who do not think. --=20 ___________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.graffiti.net/ Powered By Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 12:21:42 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: Re: Foucault vs Da Vinci In-Reply-To: <20060712191711.DF9711486C@ws5-9.us4.outblaze.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit furniture_ press wrote: > from Wikipedia: > > Foucault's Pendulum has lately been called a "thinking person's Da Vinci Code," [1] referring to the bestselling novel by American Dan Brown that followed it by more than a decade. A parchment that inspires the Plan and its multiple possible interpretations (mundane or otherwise) plays a role similar to that of the parchments in the Rennes-le-Château conspiracy theories, made famous by the Code and, before that, the The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail and other similar books. In contrast to Brown's book, however, which postulates these theories as true, Eco's work is about, among other things, the futility of conspiracy theories and the people who believe them. So the phrase used to link Eco's book to Brown's implies that the latter is for people who do not think. > Last person with a Wikipedia account to delete that is a rotten egg! -- Jonathan Penton http://www.unlikelystories.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 13:03:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ////////////////////////// Subject: spaces | reductions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit cannot paste this text correctly- giving a link instead: spaces | reductions http://www.writingxxxxxxx.com/page12.htm --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 15:51:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Re: FREE observable anthology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Okay, I was only able to give away five (5) anthologies. Maybe I didn't make it clear that you only have to give a buck, I'll send you a book. A buck for a book. I'm extending the offer until 9 PM E.S.T. Aaron -----Original Message----- Hey -- the first 20 people to play between 4:00 and 5:00 pm* today - http://www.observable.org/dollar/ - will receive a FREE Observable Anthology: No. 2 in the Observable series, Readings @ The Contemporary, 2004-2005, anthologizes shorter works from each of the poets who read last season: Carl Dennis, Julie Dill, Rodney Jones, Cole Swensen, Stephanie Young, Jocelyn Emerson, Roberto Harrison, Tom Hunley, Stephanie McKenzie, Daniel Nester, Kirby Olson, Stefene Russell, Robyn Schiff, Nick Twemlow, Aaron Belz, and Devin Johnston. (http://observable.org) Beautifully printed by Firecracker Press! An 8 dollar value! Shipped free to your mailbox! (*Eastern Standard Time) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 08:13:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: generated / cut-up text MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit do it the old way paper text scissor hat ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 07:56:27 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: Review opportunity in Jacket MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hello how does one send in a book to jacket to get it reviewed? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 17:09:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Happy Birthday Henry David Thoreau Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Happy Birthday today to Henry David Thoreau from "Walking": I wish to speak a word for Nature, for absolute freedom and wildness, as contrasted with a freedom and culture merely civil--to regard man as an inhabitant, or part and parcel of Nature, rather than a member of society. I wish to make an extreme statement,if so I may make an emphatic one, for there are enough champions of civilization: the minister and the school committeee and every one of you will take care of that. The science of Humboldt is one thing, poetry is another thing. The poet today, nowithstanding all the discoveries of science, and the accumulated learning of mankind, enjoys no advantage over Homer . . . . Perchance, when, in the course of ages, American liberty has become a fiction of the past--as it is to some extent a fiction of the present--the poets of the world will be inspired by American mythology. _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 15:48:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: generated / cut-up text In-Reply-To: <20060712.175731.-79861.8.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > do it the old way paper text scissor hat if 'the computer version' is basically the same as a previous way, you might as well 'do it the old way'. it's only when 'it' is no longer the same 'it' and 'the computer version' isn't any version that what is done with computers starts to 'make sense' beyond being simply a labour-saving device, even if the 'making sense' is erm problematical. ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 17:58:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: Re: generated / cut-up text MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've been doing the paper/scissors routine for nigh-on twenty years... my tendency is to find short-cuts (yes), and I'm curious what other people on this list use, if that's their thing, for electronic text distortion... I once explained my method to a college friend (not a collage friend), and his response was "why are you worrying about jumbling your text -- what you write is hard enough to understand as it is."=20 quick-and-dirty speeds the plough, tl -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Jim Andrews Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 17:49 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: generated / cut-up text > do it the old way paper text scissor hat if 'the computer version' is basically the same as a previous way, you might as well 'do it the old way'. it's only when 'it' is no longer the same 'it' and 'the computer version' isn't any version that what is done with computers starts to 'make sense' beyond being simply a labour-saving device, even if the 'making sense' is erm problematical. ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 18:19:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Coffey Subject: Re: Review opportunity in Jacket In-Reply-To: <20060712.175730.-79861.0.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline And also, where does one send in a book jacket to get it reviewed? On 7/12/06, Steve Dalachinsky wrote: > hello how does one send in a book to jacket to get it reviewed? > -- http://hyperhypo.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 17:39:18 -0700 Reply-To: ishaq1824@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: Celebrating Frantz Fanon=?windows-1252?Q?=92s?= Birthday MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2006/07/50558.php Celebrating Frantz Fanon’s Birthday Fanon’s analysis of racism and alienation, lack of self-esteem, and perspective of how protracted imperialist and colonial violence finally forces the oppressed to respond in an aggressive retaliatory violent response to address their depraved condition. Rebellious violent responses are natural when oppressed and repressed peoples reach the limit of tolerance to their submission. http://blackstarnews.com/?c=135&a=2198 July 11th, 2006 Celebrating Frantz Fanon’s Birthday Fanon’s analysis of racism and alienation, lack of self-esteem, and perspective of how protracted imperialist and colonial violence finally forces the oppressed to respond in an aggressive retaliatory violent response to address their depraved condition. Rebellious violent responses are natural when oppressed and repressed peoples reach the limit of tolerance to their submission. By Elombe Brath On Thursday, July 20, 2006, which would have been the 81st anniversary of the birth of Frantz Fanon, the Patrice Lumumba Coalition, ArtMattan Productions and the Theater of the Riverside Church, will present a special screening of the historic documentary, Frantz Fanon: His Life, His Struggle, His Work, on Thursday, July 20th at the Theater of the Riverside Church, at 91 Claremont Avenue and 120th Street in Manhattan. This program is the continuation of an established tradition to celebrate the birthdays of three illustrious Black men, Malcolm X, Patrice Lumumba and Frantz Fanon, who were all born during the same year, 1925, as well as in the three cardinal points of the Pan-African world: the U.S., Africa and the Caribbean. In effect, these tri-continental icons represent the “revolutionary class of 1925”, and became internationally renowned during the 1960s worldwide African liberation and Black consciousness movements, which they each influenced in their own way. However, although many people the U.S., Africa and the Caribbean have regularly paid their respect for both Malcolm and Lumumba, little attention has been given to Frantz Fanon, a revolutionary psychiatrist who was born on July 20, 1925 in Martinique, a will be paid two special tributes on the 80th anniversary of his date of birth at the Theater of the Riverside Church, one beginning at 6 PM and the second scheduled to begin at 8 PM. Although born in Martinique, a French colony since 1635 (it became part of the French overseas department in 1946), and later chose to accept President Charles De Gaulle offer of a referendum to vote “Oui” for pseudo-autonomy to remain part of the French Republic or “Non”, which was self-determination and independence, which was presented to all their colonies; only Guinea rejected Paris’ offer. Martinicans had mixed feelings, as did others ensconced in the French colonial empire. Fanon, who was mentored by Aime Cesaire, a leading figure in the negritude movement while simultaneously being a preeminent activist in the French Communist Party, also struggle with such issues before deciding to go to France to learn medicine, where he was sent to Algeria, France’s largest colony. After observing how France ruled its society in general and its the colonies in particular, especially those wretched souls who had been institutionalized in mental hospitals, Fanon realized how deep French racism was imbedded in both civil society and the military. He found a feeling of disgust and alienation with the inhumanity and contradictions in Paris and their brutal and exploitive methods. As a result, he eventually evolved to commit himself to the Algerian national liberation struggle in North Africa, going on to play a critical and dominate role in developing the theoretical analysis psychiatric care to those Algerians who were torn by the stress of trying to be both French and Algerian, the former silently strangling the latter. His brilliant work dealing with studies on violence and psychic damage among oppressed peoples revealed the depth that human consciousness can be subjected to when they are under the control of repressive regimes. His bestselling books include “The Wretched of the Earth”, “Black Skins, White Masks”, and “A Dying Colonialism”, among others, and although these works were written over four decades ago, they are still as relevant today as they were when he first wrote them. It is precisely because of this reason that the organizers decided to show this splendid 52 minute documentary directed by Cheikh Djemai, in French and Arabic with English subtitles. Fanon’s analysis of racism and alienation, lack of self-esteem, and perspective of how protracted imperialist and colonial violence finally forces the oppressed to respond in an aggressive retaliatory violent response to address their depraved condition. Rebellious violent responses are natural when oppressed and repressed peoples reach the limits of tolerance to their submission. It would seem that understanding Fanon should be made a priority mandatory reading for U.S. foreign policy makers who mistakenly believe that exploited and impoverished peoples do not understand the difference between foreign occupation and democratic self-determined social order. Fanon also understood that Black people and other peoples of color can be frustrated to the extent that they can be manipulated to engage themselves into systematic violent fratricidal conflicts and ethnocide. That this has not been yet resolved cannot be divorced from the growing tendencies towards genocide across the globe. Although this is mostly sporadic it is often a widely spread frenzied behavior that is auto-destructive and self-defeating to their own interests. In fact, Fanon thoughts are as much needed now as he was when we first encountered his thoughts in the mid-1950 and throughout the 1960s and even on up until today. Immediately following the film will be a discussion on the role of Fanon’s thought in the African world struggle today. Specifically, the objective will be to ascertain the meaning of his contributions in regards to Black youth in Africa and throughout the African Diaspora during the time he lived, and what lessons can be learned from both of his race and class analysis. For although these works were written over four decades ago, they are still as relevant today as they were when he first wrote them. It is precisely because of this reason that the organizers decided to show this splendid 52 minute documentary directed by Cheikh Djemai, in French and Arabic with English subtitles. Fanon’s analysis of racism and alienation, lack of self-esteem, and perspective of how protracted imperialist and colonial violence finally forces the oppressed to respond in an aggressive retaliatory violent response to address their depraved condition. Rebellious violent responses are natural when oppressed and repressed peoples reach the limits of tolerance to their submission. It would seem that understanding Fanon should be made a mandatory priority reading for U.S. foreign policymakers who mistakenly believe that exploited and impoverished peoples do not understand the difference between foreign occupation and democratic self-determined social order. Fanon also understood that Black people and other peoples of color can be frustrated to the extent that they can be manipulated to engage themselves into systematic violent fratricidal conflicts and ethnocide. That this has not been yet resolved cannot be divorced from the growing tendencies towards genocide across the globe. Although this is mostly sporadic it is often a widely spread frenzied behavior that is auto-destructive and self-defeating to their own interests. In fact, Fanon thoughts are as much needed now as he was when we first encountered his thoughts in the mid-1950 and throughout the 1960s and even on up until today. Immediately following the film will be a discussion on the role of Fanon’s thought in the African world struggle today. Specifically, the objective will be to ascertain the meaning of his contributions in regards to Black youth in Africa and throughout the African Diaspora during the time he lived, and what lessons can be learned from his both race and class analysis, particularly with the growing phenomena of scores of – for lack of better terminology – “lumpen-nouveau-riche-entertainment class youth”, who are getting over by hyping pathological personal histories in pursuit of bourgeois values and rewards.” There will also be a bonus showing of another important docu-drama, ‘Catch A Fire”, based on the life of an early radical son of the English-speaking Caribbean, Paul Bogle, the Jamaican deacon who led the Morant Bay land reform rebellion against the Victorian racist and class rulers in Britain and its colonies. The British Crown was supported by France, Spain and the U.S. to continue the oppression of the African masses in Jamaica, even though slavery had been abolished in 1838 – 27 years earlier. The Crown even invoked the support of the Maroons, who had won their freedom from the British authorities in both London and in Kingston, inveigling the Maroons into supporting the English through a quid-pro-quo arrangement based on the settlement between Britain and the Maroons in 1739. In a certain sense, the struggle over land and white privilege that historically was arrogated by Europeans who used brute force to wrest away the inalienable rights of Black people to control and own that Black people are still struggling with today from Harare to Harlem, and other places in the world that African people have been dispossessed of the world’s most important real estate – which revolutions are often fought over. To be able to see the lives of Frantz Fanon and Paul Bogle at the same screening is almost unbelievable. But thanks once again to ArtMattan Productions (for the last 14 years) your attendance can allow you to witness that such historic gems can be paired in the uses of cinema as a weapon to educate the masses. http://blackstarnews.com/?c=135&a=2198 -- Stay Strong -"I testified/My mama cried/Black people died/When the other man lied" -- chuck d "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as) \ "We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit to a process of humiliation." --patrick o'neil \ "...we have the responsibility to make no deal with the oppressor" --harry belafonte \ "...in time, we will look back to this age with incredulity and amazement -- and victories like Hamas in Israel will be the *best* of our memories." -- mumia abu jamal -- "what state? what union?" "...these people generate wars in Asia and Africa,...These are the people who, in the last century, caused several devastating wars. In one world war alone, they killed over 60 million people.... In the near future, Allah willing, we will put you to trial in courts established by the peoples...."-- mahmoud ahmadinejad \ http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a047braithwaite.php http://cleveland.indymedia.org/uploads/2006/07/olivet___h.a.t.s_in_the_square___loud_ruffa1b.mp3 \ http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7255.php \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date \ http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/en_fins__clichy-sous_bois_amixquiet-_lordpatch_the_giver__.mp3 \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ \ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 21:33:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vireo Nefer Subject: Re: Announcement: call for poets for a new project (Poor Man's TV) In-Reply-To: <8CF157ED-3645-4E2A-8B67-7138BACBC6C2@mwt.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline hit 'em five times each! Vireo On 7/12/06, mIEKAL aND wrote: > > I only get 3 channels of TV... > > > On Jul 11, 2006, at 11:11 PM, INK wrote: > > > > > *Poor Man's TV Project* > > > > > > > > The Mechanics: > > > > > > > > Plop yourself down in front of our favorite babysitter. Next > > randomly pick > > 15 channels. From each channel write down the first phrase/ > > sentence you > > hear. Repeat till you have done that with 15 channels. > -- AIM: vireonefer LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=vireoibis VireoNyx Publications: http://www.vireonyxpub.org INK: http://www.inkemetic.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 14:19:51 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pam Brown Subject: Re: Books for review in Jacket In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello Poeticists, I've backchanneled Steve about this. But, basically, if you have a book that you think is suited to a review in Jacket magazine you just send the book's title, author etc and publication details - maybe accompanied by a note on the content. We'll list it on the unnassigned reviews list. Once it's chosen by a reviewer we'll ask you or your publisher to mail the book to the reviewer. You can send your book details to John Tranter edit@jacketmagazine.com All the best, Pam Brown _________________________________________________________________ Blog : http://thedeletions.blogspot.com/ Web site : Pam Brown - http://www.geocities.com/p.brown/ Associate editor : Jacket - http://jacketmagazine.com/index.html _________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out gigs in your area on the comprehensive Yahoo! Music Gig Guide http://au.music.yahoo.com/gig-guide ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 23:17:40 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: generated / cut-up text In-Reply-To: <54AA9B41BC35F34EAD02E660901D8A5A07ACB292@TLRUSMNEAGMBX10.ERF.THOMSON.COM> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I've been doing the paper/scissors routine for nigh-on twenty years... > my tendency is to find short-cuts (yes), and I'm curious what other > people on this list use, if that's their thing, for electronic text > distortion... i'm not sure what you mean by 'distortion'--though it's an interesting term in its assoc with electric sound. the guitar the electric guitar the pen the electric pen i sent a link a few days ago to the stir fry texts; that is the closest my net work has been to the cut-up method. i did a piece called 'the pen' at http://vispo.com/I/ThePen.html that used a software 'pen' in corelpaint (that lets you put bitmaps on the 'nib' and so forth) and a wacom stylus to create visual 'verses'. that is a kind of electric pen to temporarily tattoo poems onto the monitor. a piece i did called arteroids at http://vispo.com/arteroids is not so much cut-up as shoot up. and not so much distortion as using a different writing instrument: director and its programming language called lingo. and the notion of the computer game. in play mode, you can create, save, and shoot up your texts using 'word for weirdos'. what flows from the pen in this case are blue and green words that stalk the id-entity and arrive in ill humour. computers are very odd things. they are language machines. language and logic machines. this odd synthesis of language and logic gives rise to totally improbable things like human thought--if you believe that the human brain is fundamentally an astonishing programmable machine (i see no evidence against this hypothesis). we are writing the brain. but you can also write sound, or visuals, or behaviours, etc, using language machines. and restructure these in all sorts of ways as you see in the works at http://vispo.com/misc/ia.htm . you could say the interactive behaviors present in these works are simply operating on sound rather than text. some use 'distortion' and others other processes of filter and/or arrangement. "If the sequencer has become the paradigm for interpreting reality, thanks to its structure that organizes flows of homogeneous information through a continuous scan, then the Pianolina ( http://www.grotrian.de/spiel/e/info.html ), generator of random encounters between notes, is a good metaphor for entropy." (from a review by Valentina Culatti in neural.it of Pianolina) ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 05:07:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Daniel f. Bradley" Subject: Re: Announcement: call for poets for a new project (Poor Man's TV) In-Reply-To: <464e46880607121833g33e8d2fcue3cff10c802ed68f@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit we use to do this in the 80's - you know get beer and set up of type writer and go publish it the next day so very nostalgic for me - i'll pass Vireo Nefer wrote: hit 'em five times each! Vireo On 7/12/06, mIEKAL aND wrote: > > I only get 3 channels of TV... > > > On Jul 11, 2006, at 11:11 PM, INK wrote: > > > > > *Poor Man's TV Project* > > > > > > > > The Mechanics: > > > > > > > > Plop yourself down in front of our favorite babysitter. Next > > randomly pick > > 15 channels. From each channel write down the first phrase/ > > sentence you > > hear. Repeat till you have done that with 15 channels. > -- AIM: vireonefer LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=vireoibis VireoNyx Publications: http://www.vireonyxpub.org INK: http://www.inkemetic.org helping to kill your literati star since 2004 http://fhole.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 06:26:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dave Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Henry David Thoreau In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi David, I love this text. It taught me all about sauntering. I tend to read it once a year or two. Thanks for the post dave -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of David-Baptiste Chirot Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 6:09 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Happy Birthday Henry David Thoreau Happy Birthday today to Henry David Thoreau from "Walking": I wish to speak a word for Nature, for absolute freedom and wildness, as contrasted with a freedom and culture merely civil--to regard man as an inhabitant, or part and parcel of Nature, rather than a member of society. I wish to make an extreme statement,if so I may make an emphatic one, for there are enough champions of civilization: the minister and the school committeee and every one of you will take care of that. The science of Humboldt is one thing, poetry is another thing. The poet today, nowithstanding all the discoveries of science, and the accumulated learning of mankind, enjoys no advantage over Homer . . . . Perchance, when, in the course of ages, American liberty has become a fiction of the past--as it is to some extent a fiction of the present--the poets of the world will be inspired by American mythology. _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 08:59:12 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Derek White Subject: Sleepingfish 0.875 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-9" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sleepingfish issue 0.875 is here! It includes fictions, texts and art by Brian Evenson, Rob Walsh, P.F. Potvin, Peter Markus, Norman Lock, Lance Olsen, K.S. Ernst, Kim Chinquee, Kathryn Rantala, Justin Torres, = Julianna Spallholz, Joshua Cohen, Trevor Dodge, Toshiya Kamei, Thomas O'Connell, Stephen Graham Jones, Rochelle Ratner, Robert Majzels, Noah Eli Gordon, nick-e melville, Nelly Reifler, Michael Boyko, Malcolm de Chazal, Liesl Jobson, Joseph Salvatore, Anne Pelletier, Allison Paige, Ali Aktan = A=FEk=FDn, Alexandra Chasin, Aaron Cohick, Carlos M. Luis, Joseph Musso, Jonathan Dixon, John Olson, Jason Bernard Claxton, James Sanders, Irving Weiss , = Guy Beining, Grace Vajda, Girija Tropp, Edward Kim, Eduardo Recife, Edgar = Omar Avil=E9s, Dana Kooperman, Cooper Esteban/Renner, Claire Huot, Christian TeBordo, Carolyn Kuebler, Doug Martin, David-Baptiste Chirot, Daryl Scroggins and Danielle Dutton.=20 =20 There will be a launch party to celebrate its release, in Brooklyn at = the Magnetic Field on July 30th. It starts at 6:30 pm and there will be some = of the above folks from the issue reading. And of course there will be = copies of Sleepingfish on hand (at a discounted price). We hope you can make = it. More info and directions: http://www.magneticbrooklyn.com/calendar.php=20 =20 If you don't live near NYC or can't make the launch party, copies are = now available through the website (www.sleepingfish.net ) and soon to be in bookstores like = Powell's. =20 In addition to some excerpts from the issue, there's some online webbed features you can check out on the Website: =20 . serialized excerpts from Lance Olsen's Anxious Pleasures http://www.sleepingfish.net/0875/Lance_Olsen_Anxious_Pleasures_1.htm=20 =20 . images inspired by and for Peter Markus' Good, Brother, which is soon forthcoming from Calamari Press.=20 http://sleepingfish.net/5cense/white_on_good_brother_Markus.htm =20 . A review of Jenny Boully's [one love affair]* http://sleepingfish.net/5cense/Jenny_Boully_1_love_affair.htm =20 . A gallery of "Concrete Poetry" : Giving it back to the Streets of NYC http://sleepingfish.net/5cense/concrete_poetry.htm=20 =20 =20 Literally yours, =20 Derek White & Robert Lopez=20 www.Sleepingfish.net =20 zzz ><( )*> ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 09:25:37 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Henry David Thoreau MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you, David-Baptiste, Here's an on-line text that I found: _http://thoreau.eserver.org/walking.html_ (http://thoreau.eserver.org/walking.html) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 09:10:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Coffey Subject: Re: Foucault vs Da Vinci In-Reply-To: <20060712191711.DF9711486C@ws5-9.us4.outblaze.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Shameless plug for a friend: The *real* "thinking person's DaVinci Code" is Amy Hassinger's _The Priest's Madonna_. See: http://tinyurl.com/kbcom' Dan On 7/12/06, furniture_ press wrote: > from Wikipedia: > > Foucault's Pendulum has lately been called a "thinking person's Da Vinci = Code," [1] referring to the bestselling novel by American Dan Brown that fo= llowed it by more than a decade. A parchment that inspires the Plan and its= multiple possible interpretations (mundane or otherwise) plays a role simi= lar to that of the parchments in the Rennes-le-Ch=E2teau conspiracy theorie= s, made famous by the Code and, before that, the The Holy Blood and the Hol= y Grail and other similar books. In contrast to Brown's book, however, whic= h postulates these theories as true, Eco's work is about, among other thing= s, the futility of conspiracy theories and the people who believe them. So = the phrase used to link Eco's book to Brown's implies that the latter is fo= r people who do not think. > > -- > ___________________________________________ > Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net > Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.graffiti.net/ > > > Powered By Outblaze > --=20 http://hyperhypo.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 08:39:38 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steensen Subject: Stacy Szymaszek's contact information Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone have Stacy Szymaszek's e-mail address? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 11:09:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: FW: deniz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I just sent this message to Halvard. I think everyone should order the Deniz book right away. It=92s fantastic. Aaron ________________________________________ From: Aaron Belz [mailto:aaron@belz.net]=20 Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 11:09 AM To: 'halvard@gmail.com' Subject: deniz Halvard- Of all the fruit borne by your Poems By Others mailing, the choicest = thus far is Gerardo Deniz. =A0I ordered his book and keep coming back to = it.=A0 It=92s like Salamun, but spacier like Paz. =A0I absolutely love it.=A0 Thanks. Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 12:31:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Fw: Re: Re: Fw: Re: un hommage au lettrisme Comments: To: wryting-l@listserv.utoronto.ca MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ______________ Saint Ghetto of the Loans by Gabriel Pomerand translated from the French by Michael Kasper and Bhamati Viswanathan only $14, ISBN: 1-933254-18-1 Saint Ghetto of the Loans reissues a legendary but little seen masterpiece of French book art from 1950, by the Lettrist Gabriel Pomerand. The prose poem text appears in segments on left-hand pages (bilingually, in this edition), and its French words and syllables are represented visually by dazzling pictographs—rebuses—on pages facing. available in stores or online at a review in rain taxi ______________ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 11:51:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Re: Review opportunity in Jacket MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've already backchanneled Dan about this-- if you want to get your book jacket reviewed, please send a description of your book jacket to aaron@belz.net, and I'll put it on a list of book jackets to be reviewed. If your book jacket is accepted for review, you'll be contacted for more information. Serious inquiries only. Thanks Aaron Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 18:19:24 -0500 From: Dan Coffey Subject: Re: Review opportunity in Jacket And also, where does one send in a book jacket to get it reviewed? On 7/12/06, Steve Dalachinsky wrote: > hello how does one send in a book to jacket to get it reviewed? > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 12:14:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: deniz In-Reply-To: <007f01c6a696$b9a1ed20$210110ac@AARONLAPTOP> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You're very welcome, Aaron. He's one of my favorite recent discoveries too. And thanks go to Monica de la Torre and a few others for bringing his work over into English. Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D halvard@gmail.com halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Jul 13, 2006, at 11:09 AM, Aaron Belz wrote: > I just sent this message to Halvard. I think everyone should order =20= > the > Deniz book right away. It=92s fantastic. > > Aaron > > ________________________________________ > From: Aaron Belz [mailto:aaron@belz.net] > Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 11:09 AM > To: 'halvard@gmail.com' > Subject: deniz > > > Halvard- > > Of all the fruit borne by your Poems By Others mailing, the =20 > choicest thus > far is Gerardo Deniz. I ordered his book and keep coming back to =20 > it. It=92s > like Salamun, but spacier like Paz. I absolutely love it. Thanks. > > Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 12:59:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bill Marsh Subject: On the Assassin's Blog In-Reply-To: <001d01c6a69c$8519fe20$210110ac@AARONLAPTOP> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.factoryschool.org/btheater/works/2cities/assassin/ Recently added to the body of the assassin: War On Anarchy (long before terror and drugs) Smeared With Foul Doctrine --for some, tars and feathers That Czolgosz Was An Anarchist -- being both question and declaration (you decide) Anarchists At Our Doors (clutching foul doctrine?) Beliefs Which Furnished the Motives --more on foul doctrine, found on his person No Use For Priests --or their doctrine Lying in State (in both senses? check the record) Matchless Possession (of pacific islands, that is) McKinley and Expansion! --in that order Free & Intelligent Conversation --making his wants as to bathing, toilet, tobacco, etc., known in a natural manner Refusal to Talk (with counsel, or converse with law) No Evidence of Delusion --nor morbid mental exaltation or expansiveness of ideas, nor much else http://www.factoryschool.org/btheater/works/2cities/assassin/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 14:27:24 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Larissa Shmailo Subject: Re: Lately at Lipstick of Noise In-Reply-To: <439589E1-EAA7-4EDE-8F46-77A5BAD88DB9@Maine.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Steve: Please see the review of my new CD, The No-Net World, at thepedestalmagazine.com and listen to it (2 min segments) at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/shmailo. I'd very much like to be on Lipstick of Noise. Thanks, Larissa Larissa Shmailo 253 West 72nd Street #715 New York, NY 10023 212/712-9865 slidingsca@aol.com http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/shmailo larissashmailo.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: Steven.Evans@MAINE.EDU To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 1:28 PM Subject: Lately at Lipstick of Noise The Lipstick of Noise: Listening & Linking to Poetry Audio Files PHP version > http://www.thirdfactory.net/lipstick.php XML-feed > feed://www.thirdfactory.net/index.xml Online Track Listing > http://www.thirdfactory.net/lipstick-tracklist.html Tracks discussed to date (most recent first): ***new*** Jayne Cortez - Global Inequalities Adrienne Rich - Divisions of Labor Jackson Mac Low - Feeling Down, Clementi Felt Imposed Upon from Every Direction Rosmarie Waldrop - Shorter American Memory of the Declaration of Independence George Oppen - From a Phrase of Simone Weil''s and Some Words of Hegel's Fanny Howe - Basic Science Charles Bernstein - Solidarity Is the Name We Give to What We Cannot Hold Lydia Davis - A Position at the University Julie Patton - Alphabet Soup ***previously announced*** Nicole Brossard - Le Cou de Lee Miller Gertrude Stein - If I Told Him: A Completed Portrait of Picasso Frank O'Hara - Ode to Joy / To Hell With It Ted Berrigan - Red Shift Joe Brainard - Tuesday, February 18th, 1971 Ernst Jandl - What You Can Do Without Vowels Amiri Baraka - Black Dada Nihilismus (DJ Spooky Mix) Bernadette Mayer - Catullus 42 Rae Armantrout - Next Life Paul Dutton - Untitled Mei-mei Berssenbrugge - from Safety Kenneth Goldsmith - Sings Adorno Kit Robinson - Return on Word bpNichol - Not What the Siren Sang but What the Frag Ment Brenda Coultas - Opening the Cabinet Anselm Berrigan - We're Not Going to Turn Me In Tom Raworth - Catacoustics Tracie Morris - My Great Grand Aunt Meets a Bush Supporter Brian Kim Stefans / Roger Pellet - I Know a Man Ron Padgett - Bob Creeley Breakthrough Barbara Guest - An Emphasis Falls on Reality & Quoting Adorno Sawako Nakayasu - Capacity Gary Sullivan - Hello & Welcome to Poetry Phone Elizabeth Willis - Kiss Me Deadly Ange Mlinko - Poem Bejeweled by Proper Nouns Jaap Blonk - Flux-de-Bouche John Wieners - The Garbos & Dietrichs Linh DInh - Acoustics Erica Hunt - Ecstasy Tips on what to listen to next always appreciated! Steve www.thirdfactory.net ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 11:58:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: postmodernist...one last time MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 http://postcards.ucomics.com/get/?MsgID=3D7b73f020fbde5208164b3bc4284ba88= 3&site_ref=3Ducomics ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 15:02:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nicholas Ruiz Subject: Re: postmodernist...one last time In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit :-) NRIII Nicholas Ruiz III ABD/GTA Interdisciplinary Program in the Humanities --Florida State University-- Editor, Kritikos http://garnet.acns.fsu.edu/~nr03/ -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of alexander saliby Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 2:58 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: postmodernist...one last time http://postcards.ucomics.com/get/?MsgID=7b73f020fbde5208164b3bc4284ba883&sit e_ref=ucomics ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 13:13:59 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ram Devineni Subject: Yusef Komunyakaa + Iranian Women Readings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Friends: We have two events in July. Please join us. Reading of Women of the Iranian Diaspora Let Me Tell You Where I've Been: New Writing by Women of the Iranian Diaspora. Join Persis Karim (editor), Tarssa Yazdani, Aphrodite Desiree Navab, Haale, and Paz for a reading and discussion of this new groundbreaking anthology. Monday, July 17, 2006 at 7pm. Labyrinth Books, 536 W. 112th St., NYC. FREE. Co-sponsored with ArteEast. ------------ Benefit Reading for The New Globe Theater with Yusef Komunyakaa Yusef is a Pulitzer-Prize winning poet and Vietnam veteran. Komunyakaa is not only one of the greatest living American poets, but an impressive speaker, so this will be a night you won't forget. It will be on Sunday, July 30, 2006 at 7pm at 109 Crosby Street (Jonathan Shorr Gallery). Cocktails will be served, and a brief documentary on The New Globe Theater will be shown. Standard tickets are $100, but there is an "artist's" rate of $50 - just enter that amount on the form and that's all you'll be charged. We would all really appreciate your help. More info on the benefit and to purchase tickets, click here: http://www.newglobe.org/july2006benefit/ The New Globe is a non-profit dedicated to building a world class performing arts venue on Governors Island in New York Harbor. Artistically driven by an Advisory Board that includes Philip Seymour Hoffmann, Al Pacino and Kevin Kline, the New Globe endeavors to deliver affordable programming (from Shakespeare to jazz) to a broad theater-going public. The stunning theater design is by Lord Norman Foster. Cheers Ram Devineni Rattapallax Please send future emails to devineni@rattapallax.com for press ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 14:43:15 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kass Fleisher Subject: Ordering info for ABR... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" hi, there have been a number of backchannel questions about how to get copies of the newly released issue of ABR (contents below as sent by joe amato), so here's the deal: if you'd like copies of this issue only (and it's not available from your nearby, excellent, independent bookseller), contact the ABR production manager, tara reeser, at tareese@ilstu.edu. if you'd like to subscribe for the next year, the cost is $24, which you can send to: American Book Review Illinois State University CB 4241 Normal IL 61790 you might want to specify that you'd like to begin with this issue, the 5th number of volume 27 (27.5, or July/August 2006). more general questions about the journal may be addressed to publisher charles harris, cbharri@ilstu.edu. thanks, kass fleisher ------------------------------- Page 2 editorial by Kass Fleisher A special focus on poetics, ed. and intro'd by yours truly, and incl: Joris on Rasula Levy on Nielsen Baldwin on Morris & Swiss Murphy on HOW2 LoLordo on Friedlander and Middleton Magee on Bruns McMorris on Waldrop and Scully Robinson on Schultz Mitchell on Heller Sondheim on Heller-Roazen Fiction feature: Mellis on Belden Finucane on Grimes Baumgartner on Shope Saterstrom on Carmody ItaliaMerica feature: Gardaphe on Ferraro DePietro on Lentricchia Wedge reviews: Widner on Granary Larsen on Inguito Kaufman on SPT's Poets Theater Joyce on www.long-sunday.net Reviews: Moulthrop on Hayles and Juul Levine on Kalich Killian on Martin Wright on Dinh Domini on Wheeler King on Kolatkar DuCharme on Motokiyu/Yasusada Pretnar on Marowitz Schneiderman on Geiger Pritchett on Graham Samet on Block Glenn on Mann Daly on Carson Aesthetics: Tomasula on Kac Patrick on Andre Backlist: Murray on Kalamaras Plus: An Exchange between R. M. Berry and Joseph Tabbi ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 16:52:01 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Fw: Fw: 4 events MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit new and recent steve dalachinsky, tsaurah litsky, yuko otomo, amy ouzoonian and julien poirier joint book launching of 4 new and recent books july 27 8 pm Cynthia Broan Gallery 546 West 29th St (between 10th and 11th avenues) New York, New York 10001 Phone: 212-760-0809 Fax: 212-760-0810 donation www.cynthiabroan.com http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________________________________ TOMPKINS SQUARE GALLERY PO-COLLAGE in East Village Curated by Valery Oisteanu 1.Charles Henri Ford 2. John Evans 3. Charles Plymmel 4. Ronnie Burk 5.Valery Oisteanu 6. Jeffrey Cyphers Wright 7. Ilka Scobie & Luigi Cazzaniga 8. Angelo Jannuzzi 9. Steve Dalachinsky & Yuko Otomo 10. Richard West & Lissa Moira 11. Rakien Nomura 12. Allen Sheinman 14. Esther Mizrahhii 15. Ruth Oisteanu 16. Tom Walker opening - Saturday 1-5 PM July 15 POEMONTAGE - Reading/Performance July 26, 2005 6-8PM 1.Valery Oisteanu 2. Jeffrey Wright 3.Steve Dalachinsky & Yuko Otomo 4. Richard West & Lissa Moira 5. Star Black 6. Lois Kagan Mingus 7. Tom Walker PO-COLLAGE New York Publication: catalogue chapbook (collage+illustrations+poetry)(?): TOMPKINS SQUARE BRANCH LIBRARY 331 East 10th Street (near Ave. B) ____________________________________ steve dalachinsky and Yuko Otomo read their work at Lalita Java, Expresso Bar and Coffee Lounge, located at 210 East 3rd Street, August 3,2005Thursday, 7PM hosted by Dorothy August Freidman _________________________________________________________________________ ____ ANNOUNCING UKNY: An international afternoon bringing together poets from the United Kingdom with leading performers on the NY poetry scene. Bowery Poetry Club, New York City Sunday July 23 2006 from 2-4 pm. English poets GERALDINE GREEN and LINDA GRAHAM join STEVE DALACHINKSY JEAN LEHRMAN AMY OUZOONIAN ANGELO VERGA RHONDA WARD in an event hosted by GEORGE WALLACE Admission free ____________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 15:36:11 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jennifer Karmin Subject: volunteer in new orleans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit hey all...i have a few friends who have been volunteering in new orleans during the summer. check out the info, think about donating some of your time, and spread the word! onwards, jennifer karmin ***************************************** The People’s Organizing Committee is helping residents build Survivors’ Councils in New Orleans and the Gulf Coast, while helping them clean up and rebuild their homes. POC believes that the people themselves should be the leaders and that this is the only way justice will be served. The government is not helping our people rebuild or return. We have to do it ourselves. Hundreds of volunteers have helped in this effort already. Come help us make this summer a turning point in the effort to rebuild New Orleans! You can expect to work hard and meet many friendly and appreciative people. For a full list of what to bring and a volunteer orientation packet, visit our website at http://www.peoplesorganizing.org Donations of office supplies, tools and building materials are very welcome on your trip down! Please give us a call between 9 a.m. - 9 p.m. CST. *POC Toll Free: 888-310-7473 *POC Main Office: 504-872-9591 *poc_information@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 19:14:06 -0700 Reply-To: ishaq1824@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: Olivet (loud ruff dub) lord patch vs Jay FN Cee (feat. Intifada Al Ard) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/07/10515.php Olivet (ruff dub) lord patch vs Jay FN Cee (feat. Intifada Al Ard) audio: MP3 at 10.4 mebibytes http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/olivet___h.a.t.s_in_the_square___loud_ruff.mp3 (download torrent) http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/torrents/olivet___h.a.t.s_in_the_square___loud_ruff.mp3.torrent Olivet (ruff dub) lord patch vs Jay FN Cee (feat. Intifada Al Ard) Ahmadinejad also told Emile Lahoud, the Lebanese president, that "Iran would put all its potential at the service of Lebanon". Weekly Summary of israeli War Crimes: the week ending 12 July 2006 http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=en/node/1222 Intifada Al Ard http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/iwc12jul.mp3 http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=en/audio/download/1222/file.mp3 First, yesterday’s action will be hugely popular in the Middle East. With mounting anger Arabs have watched the Israeli incursion into Gaza this month with no attempt by Arab or foreign leaders to stop the violence. Hezbollah has now intervened in dramatic fashion. Its television station al-Manar is making sure that everyone knows. Sheikh Nasrallah has stated that he intends to swap the three captured Israeli soldiers for Arab prisoners. In the past Hezbollah has successfully completed this human trade with Israeli leaders and clearly hopes to repeat the process http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=en/node/1217 Pull Your Ears Back is an excerpt from More at 7:30: Notes to New Palestine. http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a047braithwaite.php http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/mindwalkthirtyonerevb128.mp3 http://www.upstartradio.com/Playlist%20%26%20Links.html http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/iwc12jul.mp3 -- Stay Strong -"I testified/My mama cried/Black people died/When the other man lied" -- chuck d "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as) \ "We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit to a process of humiliation." --patrick o'neil \ "...we have the responsibility to make no deal with the oppressor" --harry belafonte \ "...in time, we will look back to this age with incredulity and amazement -- and victories like Hamas in Israel will be the *best* of our memories." -- mumia abu jamal -- "what state? what union?" "...these people generate wars in Asia and Africa,...These are the people who, in the last century, caused several devastating wars. In one world war alone, they killed over 60 million people.... In the near future, Allah willing, we will put you to trial in courts established by the peoples...."-- mahmoud ahmadinejad \ http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a047braithwaite.php http://cleveland.indymedia.org/uploads/2006/07/olivet___h.a.t.s_in_the_square___loud_ruffa1b.mp3 \ http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7255.php \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date \ http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/en_fins__clichy-sous_bois_amixquiet-_lordpatch_the_giver__.mp3 \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ \ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 05:43:09 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: philosophy question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anything wrong with this argument? Proposition A: God can think of something God can't do. If true, then there is something God can't do. If false, then there is something God can't do: God cannot think of something God can't do. Therefore (proposition B), there is something God can't do. ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 07:55:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: Re: philosophy question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable problem with Proposition A: God thinks? -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group on behalf of Jim Andrews Sent: Fri 7/14/2006 7:43 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: philosophy question =20 Anything wrong with this argument? Proposition A: God can think of something God can't do. If true, then there is something God can't do. If false, then there is something God can't do: God cannot think of something God can't do. Therefore (proposition B), there is something God can't do. ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 06:14:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: philosophy question In-Reply-To: <54AA9B41BC35F34EAD02E660901D8A5A0106030D@TLRUSMNEAGMBX10.ERF.THOMSON.COM> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > problem with Proposition A: God thinks? No, I don't think that's a problem. Because if God can't think, there's something God can't do. ja ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 06:17:02 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Re: philosophy question - can and can't do In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit God can do something God can't do. God can't think of the world without himself to think about it. God can render the world godless. And can no longer think & do. amy http://www.amyking.org Jim Andrews wrote: Anything wrong with this argument? Proposition A: God can think of something God can't do. If true, then there is something God can't do. If false, then there is something God can't do: God cannot think of something God can't do. Therefore (proposition B), there is something God can't do. ja http://vispo.com --------------------------------- Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 08:27:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Coffey Subject: Re: philosophy question In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On 7/14/06, Jim Andrews wrote: > Anything wrong with this argument? Yes, you're ascribing human characteristics to God. "If God is everywhere, is he in the toilet?" -Binky from "Life Is Hell". > > Proposition A: God can think of something God can't do. > > If true, then there is something God can't do. > > If false, then there is something God can't do: God cannot think of > something God can't do. > > Therefore (proposition B), there is something God can't do. > > ja > http://vispo.com > -- http://hyperhypo.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 09:37:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Phil Primeau Subject: Re: philosophy question In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Uh, I'm pretty sure the whole "Can God make something so big even he can't move it?"/"Can God cook a burrito so hot even he can't eat it"/"Can God fuck up so badly that even he can't fix it" schtick went out with Voltaire. Or something. Phil ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 09:50:34 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: Re: philosophy question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit God discovered there were millions of other Gods who can't do one thing - communicate. The logical question is: how can there be only one? It's a not philosophy question. It's a mathematical impossibility. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 09:51:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Daniel f. Bradley" Subject: Re: philosophy question In-Reply-To: <9d8f23110607140637x6da52207v9c3e59ba9f43ee6a@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit it is funny that people feel the need to quantify the ideas of gods and goddesses when in fact it is pretty meaningless like saying i like your eye colour pretty harmless stuff but for the fact that people get killed beacause they have the wrong eye colour or they don't believe that god can cook a burrito Phil Primeau wrote: Uh, I'm pretty sure the whole "Can God make something so big even he can't move it?"/"Can God cook a burrito so hot even he can't eat it"/"Can God fuck up so badly that even he can't fix it" schtick went out with Voltaire. Or something. Phil helping to kill your literati star since 2004 http://fhole.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 08:53:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: generated / cut-up text In-Reply-To: <54AA9B41BC35F34EAD02E660901D8A5A07ACB292@TLRUSMNEAGMBX10.ERF.THOMSON.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have yet to find a single piece of software which generates interesting output in itself. A much more fruitful tactic is to use a cocktail of different techniques & softwares & to not be afraid to introduce human elements into the mix. We (Xexoxial) published our first computer cutup in 1982 called Carniverous Equations by Michael Helsem & as far as I can tell there hasn't been much innovation in the 25 years since. ~mIEKAL On Jul 12, 2006, at 5:58 PM, Tom W. Lewis wrote: > I've been doing the paper/scissors routine for nigh-on twenty years... > my tendency is to find short-cuts (yes), and I'm curious what other > people on this list use, if that's their thing, for electronic text > distortion... > > I once explained my method to a college friend (not a collage friend), > and his response was "why are you worrying about jumbling your text -- > what you write is hard enough to understand as it is." > > quick-and-dirty speeds the plough, > > tl > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 10:07:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Daniel f. Bradley" Subject: Re: t/generated-up cut tex In-Reply-To: <002EB051-B1C7-4B78-BE8E-D8BD6C23D68B@mwt.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit i like to mixed up babble fish and the other on line translators - and i did use at grazulis cut up machine (thanks for the link) when i need to "make some text" but miekal is right - it all still need the human touch (or attention) or it ends up being boring soulless shit. my rule is if i can't finish reading a page of the shit - i can't expect anyone else to these on line tool are easy to work with (especially while doing my day job - it's less messy too) cuz it's all little electrons but i still have to go back and work the words mIEKAL aND wrote: I have yet to find a single piece of software which generates interesting output in itself. A much more fruitful tactic is to use a cocktail of different techniques & softwares & to not be afraid to introduce human elements into the mix. We (Xexoxial) published our first computer cutup in 1982 called Carniverous Equations by Michael Helsem & as far as I can tell there hasn't been much innovation in the 25 years since. ~mIEKAL On Jul 12, 2006, at 5:58 PM, Tom W. Lewis wrote: > I've been doing the paper/scissors routine for nigh-on twenty years... > my tendency is to find short-cuts (yes), and I'm curious what other > people on this list use, if that's their thing, for electronic text > distortion... > > I once explained my method to a college friend (not a collage friend), > and his response was "why are you worrying about jumbling your text -- > what you write is hard enough to understand as it is." > > quick-and-dirty speeds the plough, > > tl > > > helping to kill your literati star since 2004 http://fhole.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 16:50:44 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Karl-Erik Tallmo Subject: Re: philosophy question In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" This seems to be a variation of the classic barber paradox: >Suppose there is a town with just one male barber; and that every >man in the town keeps himself clean-shaven: some by shaving >themselves, some by attending the barber. It seems reasonable to >imagine that the barber obeys the following rule: He shaves all and >only those men who do not shave themselves. > >Under this scenario, we can ask the following question: Does the >barber shave himself? > >Asking this, however, we discover that the situation presented is in >fact impossible: > > * If the barber does not shave himself, he must abide by the >rule and shave himself. > > * If he does shave himself, according to the rule he will not >shave himself. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barber_paradox Karl-Erik Tallmo ________________________________________________________________ KARL-ERIK TALLMO, poet, writer, artist, journalist MAGAZINE: http://art-bin.com ARTWORK, WRITINGS etc.: http://www.nisus.se/tallmo/ ________________________________________________________________ >Anything wrong with this argument? > >Proposition A: God can think of something God can't do. > >If true, then there is something God can't do. > >If false, then there is something God can't do: God cannot think of >something God can't do. > >Therefore (proposition B), there is something God can't do. > >ja >http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 11:17:29 -0400 Reply-To: "J. Michael Mollohan" Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "J. Michael Mollohan" Organization: idea.s Subject: Re: philosophy question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The only way this is not a paradox is if the barber's face is hairless, e.g. a woman. Or perhaps the barber is prepubescent and when he attains hairitude, the town has a new child take over shaving duties. Interesting, in some small amount, but pointless. As for G-d, it's a matter of the supreme being(s) existing on a totally different frequency than those things that think, pick up things, or eat burritos. In Buddhist logic, there are choices other than "is" and "is not" -- there are also "is AND is not" and "NEITHER is NOR is not." The western way of thinking does not approach G-d. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karl-Erik Tallmo" To: Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 10:50 AM Subject: Re: philosophy question > This seems to be a variation of the classic barber paradox: > > >>Suppose there is a town with just one male barber; and that every man in >>the town keeps himself clean-shaven: some by shaving themselves, some by >>attending the barber. It seems reasonable to imagine that the barber obeys >>the following rule: He shaves all and only those men who do not shave >>themselves. >> >>Under this scenario, we can ask the following question: Does the barber >>shave himself? >> >>Asking this, however, we discover that the situation presented is in fact >>impossible: >> >> * If the barber does not shave himself, he must abide by the rule and >> shave himself. >> >> * If he does shave himself, according to the rule he will not shave >> himself. > > See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barber_paradox > > > Karl-Erik Tallmo > > > ________________________________________________________________ > > KARL-ERIK TALLMO, poet, writer, artist, journalist > MAGAZINE: http://art-bin.com > ARTWORK, WRITINGS etc.: http://www.nisus.se/tallmo/ > ________________________________________________________________ > > > > >>Anything wrong with this argument? >> >>Proposition A: God can think of something God can't do. >> >>If true, then there is something God can't do. >> >>If false, then there is something God can't do: God cannot think of >>something God can't do. >> >>Therefore (proposition B), there is something God can't do. >> >>ja >>http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 10:20:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Coffey Subject: Re: philosophy question In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Isn't this itself just a variation of the original Epimenides Paradox? (" 'Cretans always lie,' said the Cretan. 'Of Cretan stock am I; am I Cretan?' ")? On 7/14/06, Karl-Erik Tallmo wrote: > This seems to be a variation of the classic barber paradox: > > > >Suppose there is a town with just one male barber; and that every > >man in the town keeps himself clean-shaven: some by shaving > >themselves, some by attending the barber. It seems reasonable to > >imagine that the barber obeys the following rule: He shaves all and > >only those men who do not shave themselves. > > > >Under this scenario, we can ask the following question: Does the > >barber shave himself? > > > >Asking this, however, we discover that the situation presented is in > >fact impossible: > > > > * If the barber does not shave himself, he must abide by the > >rule and shave himself. > > > > * If he does shave himself, according to the rule he will not > >shave himself. > > See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barber_paradox > > > Karl-Erik Tallmo > > > ________________________________________________________________ > > KARL-ERIK TALLMO, poet, writer, artist, journalist > MAGAZINE: http://art-bin.com > ARTWORK, WRITINGS etc.: http://www.nisus.se/tallmo/ > ________________________________________________________________ > > > > > >Anything wrong with this argument? > > > >Proposition A: God can think of something God can't do. > > > >If true, then there is something God can't do. > > > >If false, then there is something God can't do: God cannot think of > >something God can't do. > > > >Therefore (proposition B), there is something God can't do. > > > >ja > >http://vispo.com > -- http://hyperhypo.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 17:34:41 +0200 Reply-To: argotist@fsmail.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Side Subject: New essay by Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino Comments: To: British Poetics , WRYTING Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable New essay by Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino ("Afterword and Addendum to Nic= o Vassilakis=E2=80=99s STAMPOLOGUE") at The Argotist Online http://www.argo= tistonline.co.uk/Thomasino%20essay%202.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 10:41:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: your name in a birthday poem for whitman! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's today's promotional gimmick: As we all know, it's Walt's hundred and somethingth birthday. If he accomplished nothing else, he reminded us that grass does, technically, have leaves. I was just thinking the other day how awesome grass is, in fact. Today and today only, (Friday, July fourteenth), I will include the names of everyone who gives a buck to http://observable.org/dollar/ in a new Whitman Birthday poem, and I'll submit that poem to Atlantic, New Yorker, and the Nation! You can bet your observable dollar it will be accepted, too!! And of course, you'll be listed as a Gentle Citizen. Love- Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 10:57:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Re: philosophy question - can and can't do Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 It's also a question of necessity. And, of course, our western way of think= ing (dichotomizing) really limits the possibilities; of which, of course, i= s all possibilities, and therefore, none. There are never only two sides to= something. There are an infinite amount of sides and no sides at all: infi= nity and zero are equal. Chrissed Off > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "amy king" > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: philosophy question - can and can't do > Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 06:17:02 -0700 >=20 >=20 > God can do something God can't do. >=20 > God can't think of the world without himself to think about it. >=20 > God can render the world godless. >=20 > And can no longer think & do. >=20 > amy >=20 > http://www.amyking.org >=20 >=20 > Jim Andrews wrote: > Anything wrong with this argument? >=20 > Proposition A: God can think of something God can't do. >=20 > If true, then there is something God can't do. >=20 > If false, then there is something God can't do: God cannot think of > something God can't do. >=20 > Therefore (proposition B), there is something God can't do. >=20 > ja > http://vispo.com >=20 >=20 >=20=20=20=09=09 > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free. > Christophe Casamassima Professor Emiritus, Modern Languages & Philology University of Jamaica Avenue, Queens, N.Y. --=20 ___________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.graffiti.net/ Powered By Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 09:11:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: philosophy question In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable there are problems with the proposition and the argument; below would be = a cleaner proposition BUT if "thinking" is B, well, "can't do" clearly = isn't "not B" -- but it is trying to be nearly so, I believe; there's also = that tricky prepositional phrase, "of x" A can B [of x] A can not B. problems with the proposition: assumptions about A, assumptions about "thinking" and "doing" having a peculiar relationship, problems with "thinking" of a "thing" that is also an "action"; if you really want to extend the statement, you would get rid of the x qualification problems about first if statement: x exists that A can not B: well, it is not the true statement coming from the prop, which would be x exists that A can B x and A can not B x problems with the second if statement: x exists that A can not B: first portion is the same then, there's a corollary! x exists that A can not B x and A can not B x you see the problem proposition B (also presented as the conclusion of the argument), x = exists A can not B well, it is half of the old proposition what we've got is pretty much a tautology, and circular logic is where = the magic is although lots of people like those paradoxes as well the beauty of tautology is that by pondering it, you find out its assumptions, which are that this is apparently supposedly an = all-thinking, all-doing, creator A -- A can "think" and "do" a "clam" as well as an = "idea" while B, the forces, seem entirely too entailed herein All best, Catherine Daly of course there is no A, only Bx ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 09:18:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: philosophy question In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Not really anything wrong with it. But it's a paradoxical statement that to require weight needs an additional assertion of god's omnipotence. The force of the paradox comes in denying that god can be omnipotent, but in order to get there, you have to make a straw man of the assertions of god's omnipotence. Most competent theologians would have no problem with the assertion that there are things that God can't do, as by omnipotence they generally don't mean that God can do anything, but that god can do anything that it is possible to do. paradoxes rely on the abuse of grammar and are essentially unresolvable. That is, it's not possible to make two paradoxical statements both true. So no theologian is going to assert that doing that is something God can do, so would have no trouble with asserting that God can think of something God can't do. In fact, they'd probably say God can think of an infinite variety of things he can't do, more things than any person could ever come up ! with. Of course the entirety of the argument falls apart because they are essentially grammatical assertions about grammatical facts that, in order to be any trouble at all, have to be misused in the wrong context. It's the same problem with all metaphysical propositions, and it's the problem that renders all metaphysical propositions senseless in uncle ludwig's sense. On Fri, 14 Jul 2006, Jim Andrews wrote: > Anything wrong with this argument? > > Proposition A: God can think of something God can't do. > > If true, then there is something God can't do. > > If false, then there is something God can't do: God cannot think of > something God can't do. > > Therefore (proposition B), there is something God can't do. > > ja > http://vispo.com > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 12:26:10 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Stefans Subject: New Media Poetics: Contexts, Technotexts and Theories (MIT Press) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable New Media Poetics Contexts, Technotexts, and Theories Edited by Adalaide Morris and Thomas Swiss =20 http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/?ttype=3D2 = &tid=3D10918 =20 New media poetry--poetry composed, disseminated, and read on computers--exists in various configurations, from electronic documents = that can be navigated and/or rearranged by their "users" to kinetic, visual, = and sound materials through online journals and archives like UbuWeb, = PennSound, and the Electronic Poetry Center. Unlike mainstream print poetry, which assumes a bounded, coherent, and self-conscious speaker, new media = poetry assumes a synergy between human beings and intelligent machines. The = essays and artist statements in this volume explore this synergy's continuities = and breaks with past poetic practices, and its profound implications for the future. =20 By adding new media poetry to the study of hypertext narrative, = interactive fiction, computer games, and other digital art forms, New Media Poetics extends our understanding of the computer as an expressive medium, = showcases works that are visually arresting, aurally charged, and dynamic, and = traces the lineage of new media poetry through print and sound poetics, = procedural writing, gestural abstraction and conceptual art, and activist = communities formed by emergent poetics.=20 =20 Contributors: Giselle Beiguelman, John Cayley, Alan Filreis, Loss Peque=F1o Glazier, = Alan Golding, Kenneth Goldsmith, N. Katherine Hayles, Cynthia Lawson, = Jennifer Ley, Talan Memmott, Adalaide Morris, Carrie Noland, Marjorie Perloff, William Poundstone, Martin Spinelli, Stephanie Strickland, Brian Kim Stefans, Barrett Watten, Darren Wershler-Henry =20 Adalaide Morris is John C. Gerber Professor of English at the University = of Iowa, where Thomas Swiss is Professor of English and Rhetoric of = Inquiry. =20 Thomas Swiss is Professor of English and Rhetoric of Inquiry at the University of Iowa.=20 =20 Table of Contents =20 1. New Media Poetics: As We May Think/How To Write Adalaide Morris=20 =20 I. Contexts=20 =20 2. The Bride Stripped Bare: Nude Media and the Dematerialization of Tony Curtis Kenneth Goldsmith =20 3. Toward a Poetics for Circulars Brian Kim Stefans Exchange on Circulars (2003) Brian Kim Stefans and Darren Wershler-Henry =20 4. Riding the Meridian Jennifer Ley =20 5. Electric Line: The Poetics of Digital Audio Editing Martin Spinelli =20 6. Kinetic Is As Kinetic Does: On the Institutionalization of Digital = Poetry Alan Filreis=20 =20 II. Technotexts=20 =20 7. Screening the Page/Paging the Screen: Digital Poetics and the Differential Text Marjorie Perloff =20 8. Vniverse Stephanie Strickland and Cynthia Lawson =20 9. The Time of Digital Poetry: From Object to Event N. Katherine Hayles =20 10. 10 Sono at Swoons Loss Peque=F1o Glazier =20 11. Digital Gestures Carrie Noland =20 12. 3 Proposals for Bottle Imps William Poundstone =20 13. Language Writing, Digital Poetics, and Transitional Materialities Alan Golding and Giselle Beiguelman =20 14. Nomadic Poetry =20 III. Theories=20 =20 15. Beyond Taxonomy: Digital Poetics and the Problem of Reading Talan Menmott =20 16. Time Code Language: New Media Poetics and Programmed Signification John Cayley =20 17. Poetics in the Expanded Field: Textual, Visual, Digital . . . Barrett Watten ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 09:27:03 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: philosophy question In-Reply-To: <750c78460607140820h2ad2c365k4b364448375f3866@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed that's the liar paradox, which is different. the barber paradox is at root just a contradiction and not a true paradox. the liar paradox rests on bad grammar just like all true paradoxes. Basically it breaks down in the assignation to "always" to mean "in all cases in all possible worlds" which is a special meaning for always borrowed from the grammar of geometry in the case of epimenides, and mathematical logic in modern formulations, and applied to an empirical proposition. If you really understand what always means in this context, and every native speaker does (it means something like "usually" but with a little more rhetorical oomph), then there is no paradox. On Fri, 14 Jul 2006, Dan Coffey wrote: > Isn't this itself just a variation of the original Epimenides Paradox? > (" 'Cretans always lie,' said the Cretan. 'Of Cretan stock am I; am I > Cretan?' ")? > > On 7/14/06, Karl-Erik Tallmo wrote: >> This seems to be a variation of the classic barber paradox: >> >> >> >Suppose there is a town with just one male barber; and that every >> >man in the town keeps himself clean-shaven: some by shaving >> >themselves, some by attending the barber. It seems reasonable to >> >imagine that the barber obeys the following rule: He shaves all and >> >only those men who do not shave themselves. >> > >> >Under this scenario, we can ask the following question: Does the >> >barber shave himself? >> > >> >Asking this, however, we discover that the situation presented is in >> >fact impossible: >> > >> > * If the barber does not shave himself, he must abide by the >> >rule and shave himself. >> > >> > * If he does shave himself, according to the rule he will not >> >shave himself. >> >> See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barber_paradox >> >> >> Karl-Erik Tallmo >> >> >> ________________________________________________________________ >> >> KARL-ERIK TALLMO, poet, writer, artist, journalist >> MAGAZINE: http://art-bin.com >> ARTWORK, WRITINGS etc.: http://www.nisus.se/tallmo/ >> ________________________________________________________________ >> >> >> >> >> >Anything wrong with this argument? >> > >> >Proposition A: God can think of something God can't do. >> > >> >If true, then there is something God can't do. >> > >> >If false, then there is something God can't do: God cannot think of >> >something God can't do. >> > >> >Therefore (proposition B), there is something God can't do. >> > >> >ja >> >http://vispo.com >> > > > -- > http://hyperhypo.org > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 09:37:13 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eric Dickey Subject: Re: philosophy question In-Reply-To: <010a01c6a760$38220350$6501a8c0@KASIA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I used to shop at the B X all the time! Excellent redux. All summed up so nicely in our former president's statement, "that depends on what your definition of "is" is." Remember, God died a long time ago, and we killed him her it. So, as it stands now, the alleged God can't do anything at all anyway, much less shave anybody. Catherine Daly wrote: there are problems with the proposition and the argument; below would be a cleaner proposition BUT if "thinking" is B, well, "can't do" clearly isn't "not B" -- but it is trying to be nearly so, I believe; there's also that tricky prepositional phrase, "of x" A can B [of x] A can not B. problems with the proposition: assumptions about A, assumptions about "thinking" and "doing" having a peculiar relationship, problems with "thinking" of a "thing" that is also an "action"; if you really want to extend the statement, you would get rid of the x qualification problems about first if statement: x exists that A can not B: well, it is not the true statement coming from the prop, which would be x exists that A can B x and A can not B x problems with the second if statement: x exists that A can not B: first portion is the same then, there's a corollary! x exists that A can not B x and A can not B x you see the problem proposition B (also presented as the conclusion of the argument), x exists A can not B well, it is half of the old proposition what we've got is pretty much a tautology, and circular logic is where the magic is although lots of people like those paradoxes as well the beauty of tautology is that by pondering it, you find out its assumptions, which are that this is apparently supposedly an all-thinking, all-doing, creator A -- A can "think" and "do" a "clam" as well as an "idea" while B, the forces, seem entirely too entailed herein All best, Catherine Daly of course there is no A, only Bx --------------------------------- Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 12:37:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: philosophy question In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT A good way to think of Jason's paradox/grammar distinction is this: Some dogs have floppy ears. My dog has floppy ears. Therefore, my dog is SOME dog! This, like "always", as explained, is an equivocation on the word: using it in two senses without carefully distinguishing the senses. Poets like to conflate connotations and even meanings in the way jazz pianists like to hit two side-by-side keys on the piano because the note they really want is somewhere in between, sort of, or they are on the way somewhere else that the tension of the dissonance leads to or is resolved by, so these kinds of paradoxes are superficially attractive. Starting with them can be fun and exciting; It's stopping at them that is dangerous. Marcus On 14 Jul 2006 at 9:27, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > that's the liar paradox, which is different. the barber paradox is > at root just a contradiction and not a true paradox. the liar > paradox rests on bad grammar just like all true paradoxes. Basically > it breaks down in the assignation to "always" to mean "in all cases > in all possible worlds" which is a special meaning for always > borrowed from the grammar of geometry in the case of epimenides, and > mathematical logic in modern formulations, and applied to an > empirical proposition. If you really understand what always means in > this context, and every native speaker does (it means something like > "usually" but with a little more rhetorical oomph), then there is no > paradox. > > > On Fri, 14 Jul 2006, Dan Coffey wrote: > > > Isn't this itself just a variation of the original Epimenides > Paradox? > > (" 'Cretans always lie,' said the Cretan. 'Of Cretan stock am I; > am I > > Cretan?' ")? > > > > On 7/14/06, Karl-Erik Tallmo wrote: > >> This seems to be a variation of the classic barber paradox: > >> > >> > >> >Suppose there is a town with just one male barber; and that > every > >> >man in the town keeps himself clean-shaven: some by shaving > >> >themselves, some by attending the barber. It seems reasonable > to > >> >imagine that the barber obeys the following rule: He shaves all > and > >> >only those men who do not shave themselves. > >> > > >> >Under this scenario, we can ask the following question: Does > the > >> >barber shave himself? > >> > > >> >Asking this, however, we discover that the situation presented > is in > >> >fact impossible: > >> > > >> > * If the barber does not shave himself, he must abide by > the > >> >rule and shave himself. > >> > > >> > * If he does shave himself, according to the rule he will > not > >> >shave himself. > >> > >> See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barber_paradox > >> > >> > >> Karl-Erik Tallmo > >> > >> > >> > ________________________________________________________________ > >> > >> KARL-ERIK TALLMO, poet, writer, artist, journalist > >> MAGAZINE: http://art-bin.com > >> ARTWORK, WRITINGS etc.: http://www.nisus.se/tallmo/ > >> > ________________________________________________________________ > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >Anything wrong with this argument? > >> > > >> >Proposition A: God can think of something God can't do. > >> > > >> >If true, then there is something God can't do. > >> > > >> >If false, then there is something God can't do: God cannot think > of > >> >something God can't do. > >> > > >> >Therefore (proposition B), there is something God can't do. > >> > > >> >ja > >> >http://vispo.com > >> > > > > > > -- > > http://hyperhypo.org > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 11:52:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Joyeux Quartorze Juillet and Happy Birthday Woody Guthrie!!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Celebrate Bastille Day and Woody Guthrie today! (and Aaron--it isn't Walt Whitman's birthday today--) _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 12:17:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Re: Joyeux Quartorze Juillet and Happy Birthday Woody Guthrie!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, my bad. As I have since learned, it's his father Walter Whitman's birthday. I am not sure what to do now, as my whole day was planned around Walt Whitman. Do I try to pretend these photographs and recordings are of Woody Guthrie? That this old beach toga is somehow related to Bastille Day? Any suggestions will be welcome. Belz ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 10:19:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: justin sirois Subject: Re: New Media Poetics: Contexts, Technotexts and Theories (MIT Press) In-Reply-To: <000501c6a762$3b552ff0$0302a8c0@brianlaptop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit this looks important and perfectly timed. does anyone have contact info for Adalaide Morris and/or Thomas Swiss? please back-channel justin sirois narrowhouse.org --- Brian Stefans wrote: > New Media Poetics > > Contexts, Technotexts, and Theories > > Edited by Adalaide Morris and Thomas Swiss > > > > http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/?ttype=2 > > &tid=10918 > > > > New media poetry--poetry composed, disseminated, and > read on > computers--exists in various configurations, from > electronic documents that > can be navigated and/or rearranged by their "users" > to kinetic, visual, and > sound materials through online journals and archives > like UbuWeb, PennSound, > and the Electronic Poetry Center. Unlike mainstream > print poetry, which > assumes a bounded, coherent, and self-conscious > speaker, new media poetry > assumes a synergy between human beings and > intelligent machines. The essays > and artist statements in this volume explore this > synergy's continuities and > breaks with past poetic practices, and its profound > implications for the > future. > > > > By adding new media poetry to the study of hypertext > narrative, interactive > fiction, computer games, and other digital art > forms, New Media Poetics > extends our understanding of the computer as an > expressive medium, showcases > works that are visually arresting, aurally charged, > and dynamic, and traces > the lineage of new media poetry through print and > sound poetics, procedural > writing, gestural abstraction and conceptual art, > and activist communities > formed by emergent poetics. > > > > Contributors: > > Giselle Beiguelman, John Cayley, Alan Filreis, Loss > Pequeño Glazier, Alan > Golding, Kenneth Goldsmith, N. Katherine Hayles, > Cynthia Lawson, Jennifer > Ley, Talan Memmott, Adalaide Morris, Carrie Noland, > Marjorie Perloff, > William Poundstone, Martin Spinelli, Stephanie > Strickland, Brian Kim > Stefans, Barrett Watten, Darren Wershler-Henry > > > > Adalaide Morris is John C. Gerber Professor of > English at the University of > Iowa, where Thomas Swiss is Professor of English and > Rhetoric of Inquiry. > > > > Thomas Swiss is Professor of English and Rhetoric of > Inquiry at the > University of Iowa. > > > > Table of Contents > > > > 1. New Media Poetics: As We May Think/How To Write > > Adalaide Morris > > > > I. Contexts > > > > 2. The Bride Stripped Bare: Nude Media and the > Dematerialization of Tony > Curtis > > Kenneth Goldsmith > > > > 3. Toward a Poetics for Circulars > > Brian Kim Stefans > > Exchange on Circulars (2003) > > Brian Kim Stefans and Darren Wershler-Henry > > > > 4. Riding the Meridian > > Jennifer Ley > > > > 5. Electric Line: The Poetics of Digital Audio > Editing > > Martin Spinelli > > > > 6. Kinetic Is As Kinetic Does: On the > Institutionalization of Digital Poetry > > Alan Filreis > > > > II. Technotexts > > > > 7. Screening the Page/Paging the Screen: Digital > Poetics and the > Differential Text > > Marjorie Perloff > > > > 8. Vniverse > > Stephanie Strickland and Cynthia Lawson > > > > 9. The Time of Digital Poetry: From Object to Event > > N. Katherine Hayles > > > > 10. 10 Sono at Swoons > > Loss Pequeño Glazier > > > > 11. Digital Gestures > > Carrie Noland > > > > 12. 3 Proposals for Bottle Imps > > William Poundstone > > > > 13. Language Writing, Digital Poetics, and > Transitional Materialities > > Alan Golding and Giselle Beiguelman > > > > 14. Nomadic Poetry > > > > III. Theories > > > > 15. Beyond Taxonomy: Digital Poetics and the Problem > of Reading > > Talan Menmott > > > > 16. Time Code Language: New Media Poetics and > Programmed Signification > > John Cayley > > > === message truncated === . . . . . . . http://www.narrowhouserecordings.com/ a record label primarily interested in contemporary writing, poetics and the political __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 12:40:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: Joyeux Quartorze Juillet and Happy Birthday Woody Guthrie!!! In-Reply-To: <000001c6a769$62990d00$210110ac@AARONLAPTOP> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Oh no--just say is Walt celebrating Bastille Day! >From: Aaron Belz >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Joyeux Quartorze Juillet and Happy Birthday Woody Guthrie!!! >Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 12:17:28 -0500 > > > >Yes, my bad. As I have since learned, it's his father Walter Whitman's >birthday. > >I am not sure what to do now, as my whole day was planned around Walt >Whitman. Do I try to pretend these photographs and recordings are of Woody >Guthrie? That this old beach toga is somehow related to Bastille Day? Any >suggestions will be welcome. > >Belz > > _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 13:43:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: philosophy question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Can God fuck up Voltaire so badly that He can't cook a burrito? How many Gods Does it take to Change a light bulb? Can some dog Think of some god So powerful that he could think Of a thinking dog? <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 13:36:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Halle Subject: Mark Tardi @ Seven Corners Comments: To: Adam Fieled , Alex Frankel , Anne Waldman , Becky Hilliker , Bhisham Bherwani , Bill Garvey , Bob Archambeau , "Bowen, Kristy" , Brandi Homan , cahnmann@uga.edu, Chad Carroll , "Chapman, Joanne" , chard deNiord , Cheryl Keeler , Chris Glomski , Chris Goodrich , Craig Halle , Daniel Godston , Dan Pedersen , DAVID PAVELICH , Diana Collins , ela kotkowska , "f.lord@snhu.edu" , Garin Cycholl , grant-jenkins@utulsa.edu, heather pearl , Ira Sadoff , Jacqueline Gens , Jay Rubin , jeffgrybash@hotmail.com, jeremy@invisible-city.com, John Krumberger , JOHN TIPTON , Judith Vollmer , Jules Gibbs , Julianna McCarthy , "K. R." , Kate Doane , Kristin Prevallet , "Lea C. Deschenes" , "lesliesysko@hotmail.com" , Malia Hwang-Carlos , Marie U , Mark Tardi , MartinD , Matt Gruenfeld , Michael OLeary , Michael Waters , Monica Halle , Michelle Taransky , "Odelius, Kristy Lee" , pba1@surewest.net, pen@splab.org, Randolph Healy , Rick Wishcamper , Ross Gay , Simone Muench , timothy daisy , Truth Thomas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Start your weekend off right--check out a sequence of poems by Mark Tardi at Seven Corners (www.sevencornerspoetry.blogspot.com). Have a great weekend. Best, Steve Halle Editor ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 14:51:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joey Madia Subject: New Mystics July Update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://www.newmystics.com/ is proud to announce its July line-up of artists, featuring RIC CARFAGNA, JOEY MADIA, NICK PENDLETON, STEVE DALACHINSKY, CHUCK REGAN, GEORGE LENNON, TONYA MADIA, CLAUDIA BEECHMAN, and MARINA BOCCUZZI we invite you to visit our Archives, Mystic Spotlight, Tribute, and News Pages as well. newmystics.com is home to the New Mystics Theatre Company, Inc. For more information, contact: Joey Madia, Poetry and Prose Editor and Artistic Director/Resident Playwright New Mystics Theatre Company, Inc. www.newmystics.com/joey@newmystics.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 12:14:06 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ////////////////////////// Subject: Re: t/generated-up cut tex In-Reply-To: <20060714140706.96105.qmail@web88106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit don't use these methods myself just an idea ----------------------------------------------- this program: http://www-gap.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~gap/ will allow text to be input as a list and manipulated according to some characteristics of the text. there is documentation on the site, and in the program itself, about the programming language. put some basic examples below. much more can be done.... commands end with a semicolon; the output follows. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ### defining a list of text ### gap> x:= ["cooks", "kill", "lightbulb paint"]; [ "cooks", "kill", "lightbulb paint" ] ### accessing an element of a list ### gap> x[1]; "cooks" gap> x[1][1]; 'c' ### selecting a random element of a list ### gap> Random(x); "lightbulb paint" gap> Random(x[1]); 'o' gap> x; [ "cooks", "kill", "lightbulb paint" ] ### deriving a random list from the defined list ### gap> List([1..10],i -> Random(x)); [ "lightbulb paint", "kill", "kill", "lightbulb paint", "kill", "cooks", "kill", "lightbulb paint", "kill", "cooks" ] gap> List([1..10],i -> Random(x[1])); ""cksscocooo"" ### sorting and filtering lists ### gap> x; [ "cooks", "kill", "lightbulb paint" ] gap> Set(x[3]); " abghilnptu" gap> SortedList(x[3]); " abbghiillnpttu" gap> x[4]:= "window" ;; # adding an element. two semicolons hide the output # gap> x; [ "cooks", "kill", "lightbulb paint", "window" ] gap> Intersection(x); [ ] gap> Intersection( x{[2,3]} ); "il" gap> Difference(x[1],x[4]);Difference(x[4],x[1]); "cks" "dinw" gap> Permuted(x,(2,3,4)); [ "cooks", "window", "kill", "lightbulb paint" ] gap> Permuted(x[3],(2,3,4)); "lhigtbulb paint" gap> Set(x); [ "cooks", "kill", "lightbulb paint", "window" ] gap> Flat(x); "cookskilllightbulb paintwindow" gap> Set(last); # ' last ' calls the program's last output # " abcdghiklnopstuw" gap> PartitionsSet(x,2); [ [ [ "cooks" ], [ "kill", "lightbulb paint", "window" ] ], [ [ "cooks", "kill" ], [ "lightbulb paint", "window" ] ], [ [ "cooks", "kill", "lightbulb paint" ], [ "window" ] ], [ [ "cooks", "kill", "window" ], [ "lightbulb paint" ] ], [ [ "cooks", "lightbulb paint" ], [ "kill", "window" ] ], [ [ "cooks", "lightbulb paint", "window" ], [ "kill" ] ], [ [ "cooks", "window" ], [ "kill", "lightbulb paint" ] ] ] ### sorting and filtering a list with a defined function ### gap> x; [ "cooks", "kill", "lightbulb paint", "window" ] gap> func:= function(n) > local f1,f2; > f1:= Length(n); > if IsPrime(f1) or > (Number(n,i -> i = 'l') >= 1 and f1 mod 3 = 0) > then > f2:= true;else > f2:= false; fi; > return f2; > end; function( n ) ... end gap> Filtered(x, i -> func(i) = true); [ "cooks", "lightbulb paint" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 12:16:04 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: UbuWeb Subject: UBUWEB :: Pianoless Vexations MP3s Comments: To: rumori@detritus.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -------------------------------- UBUWEB :: Pianoless Vexations -------------------------------- http://ubu.com/sound/vexations.html Pianoless Vexations (MP3): 8 hours of MP3s recorded live at The Sculpture Center, NYC on June 11, 2006. Vexations was composed by Erik Satie in 1893 and consists of a short motif repeated 840 times. Vexations was first performed publicly by John Cage and several other pianists over the course of 19 hours in 1963. As the title conveys, artists performing in Pianoless Vexations used any instrument except the piano to perform Satie's original composition. Instruments included laptops, drums, guitar, French horn, violin, trumpet, saxophone, viola, recorder, toy piano, harpsichord, mandolin, bass, film projectors, voice, dulcimer and more. Artists include Randy Nordschow; Hay Sanders; Bruce Pearson and Marco Navarette; Daphna Mor, Rachel Begley, and Nina Stern; Bruce Arnold Jazz Trio; Alan Licht and Angela Jaeger; String Messengers; Rusty Santos; Amy Granat; Greg Kelley; Miguel Frasconi; Bethany Ryker; D. Edward Davis and Erik Carlson; Zachary Seldess; Charles Waters and Katie Pawluk; Andrew Lampert and Steve Dalachinsky; Margaret Leng Tan; Trudy Chan; David Grubbs; Goddess; Matthew Ostrowski; Kenta Nagai; Stephin Merritt and Ethan Cohen; Rick Moody, Hannah Marcus, and Tianna Kennedy. --------------------- __ U B U W E B __ http://ubu.com --------------------- Apologies for cross-postings. Please forward. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 16:08:22 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Zimmerman Subject: Re: philosophy question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It reminds me of Ambrose Bierce's defintion: GRAVITATION, n. The tendency of all bodies to approach one another with a strength proportion to the quantity of matter they contain - the quantity of matter they contain being ascertained by the strength of their tendency to approach one another. This is a lovely and edifying illustration of how science, having made A the proof of B, makes B the proof of A. http://www.thedevilsdictionary.com/?G ~ Dan Zimmerman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Andrews" To: Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 8:43 AM Subject: philosophy question > Anything wrong with this argument? > > Proposition A: God can think of something God can't do. > > If true, then there is something God can't do. > > If false, then there is something God can't do: God cannot think of > something God can't do. > > Therefore (proposition B), there is something God can't do. > > ja > http://vispo.com > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 16:39:43 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mike Luster Subject: Re: philosophy question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Can God make this thread stop? mike luster ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 15:45:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: philosophy question In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'll try. Hal On Jul 14, 2006, at 3:39 PM, Mike Luster wrote: > Can God make this thread stop? > > mike luster ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 14:52:47 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: INK Subject: Announcement: calling all poets for a new project (poor man's TV) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline For the most part, we've gotten some great responses to this project. It is being re posted to see if anyone else might be interested in joining up. Below you will find all the particulars. It is foolhardy to think that this or any other movement can replace or destroy the TV and the power that device wields. But what this project can do is subvert it. We have been given the tools. The very words that are used to control people, to dictate their thoughts control their actions. W= e will rewrite their history in our own way. We will take their words and re-envision them. Take their rhetoric and make it our rhetoric. We will splice, deconstruct, montage, and mutate their messages to our own. Let us take their statements of politics, entertainment, fashion, etc=85and turn t= hem to our concepts. We have hundreds of channels of text waiting to be found, to be rewritten. Use their politics to offer up our own. Take their concept of art and make it ours. Make their sitcoms our comedies. This project is open to all who wish to mold this language of television into a language of thought. Your politics, aesthetics, and other beliefs are free to be expressed. This is about community and bringing the community of poet= s together, no matter what school you are from. We are looking for a movement to change the way poetry and TV is viewed. All are welcomed to the challenge of gaining control over the media that surrounds us. Below you will find an updated version of the mechanics of the project. *Poor Man's TV Project* The Mechanics: Plop yourself down in front of our favorite babysitter. Next randomly pick 15 channels. From each channel write down the first phrase/sentence you hear. Repeat till you have done that with 15 channels. If your abode lack= s the channels or a television necessary for this project get creative with how you will obtain this text. I'm sure we all have one friend who will allow us to couch surf long enough to get the 15 lines. There is also the local bars which always have at least one TV running. In short with a little creativity the lack of a multitude of channels or a TV shouldn't pos= e too much of a problem. Arrangement: You can craft the poem in any style you wish. The only restriction is all the words must come from the 15 lines of dialog from the above step. Refinement: Depending on how many are involved in the final project will determine this step. Thanks to the internet we can divide everyone into groups. Each group will be responsible for the workshoping of each other in that group. For those in a relatively close geographic region, you might want to set up some type of face to face workshop to help polish these poems. The tentative schedule will be twice a month for these workshops. The editors will also ask that after each workshop a copy of the poems will be sent to us so that we can see how everything is progressing. Part of this project is not only the finished poems but the process of crafting them as well. The finished project: The goal is to have a decent anthology of these poems ready by the end of the year. After that we shall begin to shop this project around. Other Fun Socialization: So that we will all have a stable and centralized site for all things Poor Man's TV as well as other poetic things of note; the editors will be settin= g up an online site (Myspace, Yahoo, or something similar) so that all of those involved can keep in contact throughout and beyond this project. Also any other suggestions to make this run smoothly let us know. Until these other ideas or up and running we will be using mass emails to get any important information out to the participants. The editors contact information is below. Contact information: Email: chris.inkspot@gmail.com or gdtrippy7@yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 17:06:54 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: philosophy question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/14/06 4:40:18 PM, Luster@AOL.COM writes: > Can God make this thread stop? > > mike luster > God does not interfere with the Web. Murat ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 19:25:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: philosophy question In-Reply-To: <3c2.585796a.31e9616e@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > In a message dated 7/14/06 4:40:18 PM, Luster@AOL.COM writes: > > Can God make this thread stop? On 14 Jul 2006 at 17:06, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > God does not interfere with the Web. This is not true. God tries to interfere with the Web, but the Web interprets those attempts as noise, and works around the problem. Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 20:05:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Tom Beckett MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Could Tom Bekett please contact me back ch.? I seem to have mislaid your email address -- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 17:30:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: philosophy question In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 14-Jul-06, at 5:43 AM, Jim Andrews wrote: > Anything wrong with this argument? > > Proposition A: God can think of something God can't do. > > If true, then there is something God can't do. > > If false, then there is something God can't do: God cannot think of > something God can't do. > > Therefore (proposition B), there is something God can't do. > > ja > http://vispo.com > > Old mistake. That is human philosophical thought, which is more proof of (a) humanity's fallen nature (b) the distance between human thought and God's consciousness. George Bowering, M.A. Once saw Marianne Moore plain. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 20:54:15 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: philosophy question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/14/06 7:26:18 PM, marcus@DESIGNERGLASS.COM writes: > > In a message dated 7/14/06 4:40:18 PM, Luster@AOL.COM writes: > > > Can God make this thread stop? > > On 14 Jul 2006 at 17:06, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > > God does not interfere with the Web. > > This is not true. God tries to interfere with the Web, but the Web > interprets those attempts as noise, and works around the problem. > > Marcus > That's why sometimes I don't understand what my computer is doing. Murat ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 17:51:53 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Diane DiPrima Subject: Re: philosophy question In-Reply-To: <2BA2B84A-1399-11DB-8A63-000A95C34F08@sfu.ca> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Any infinity of necessity contains paradox. [One assumption here being that "god" should posses omnipotence (a kind of infinity)] On another level, both "do" and "think" are totally meaningless concepts vis-=E0-vis "god". Diane di Prima > From: George Bowering > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 17:30:52 -0700 > To: > Subject: Re: philosophy question >=20 > On 14-Jul-06, at 5:43 AM, Jim Andrews wrote: >=20 >> Anything wrong with this argument? >>=20 >> Proposition A: God can think of something God can't do. >>=20 >> If true, then there is something God can't do. >>=20 >> If false, then there is something God can't do: God cannot think of >> something God can't do. >>=20 >> Therefore (proposition B), there is something God can't do. >>=20 >> ja >> http://vispo.com >>=20 >>=20 >=20 > Old mistake. > That is human philosophical thought, > which is more proof of > (a) humanity's fallen nature > (b) the distance between human thought and God's consciousness. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > George Bowering, M.A. >=20 > Once saw Marianne Moore plain. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 18:10:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adam Fieled Subject: Re: philosophy question, bringing in St. Anselm In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Plus, Saint Anselm started that "card trick" game-- the Ontological argument, in his "Monologion". It's the exact same basic thing....in reverse: 1) God is something that "can not be bettered in thought", ie you can think of nothing greater, whether or not you believe in Him, right? 2) God can either exist "objectively" in reality or is the "greatest thought", that exists only as a thought, BUT if he exists as only a thought, you can conceive of something greater, which means, THEREFORE, 3) God exists objectively & in reality, & as the "greatest thought". Just a card trick, & the thing here is just a card trick, too. Love, Adam Fieled Diane DiPrima wrote: Any infinity of necessity contains paradox. [One assumption here being that "god" should posses omnipotence (a kind of infinity)] On another level, both "do" and "think" are totally meaningless concepts vis-à-vis "god". Diane di Prima > From: George Bowering > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 17:30:52 -0700 > To: > Subject: Re: philosophy question > > On 14-Jul-06, at 5:43 AM, Jim Andrews wrote: > >> Anything wrong with this argument? >> >> Proposition A: God can think of something God can't do. >> >> If true, then there is something God can't do. >> >> If false, then there is something God can't do: God cannot think of >> something God can't do. >> >> Therefore (proposition B), there is something God can't do. >> >> ja >> http://vispo.com >> >> > > Old mistake. > That is human philosophical thought, > which is more proof of > (a) humanity's fallen nature > (b) the distance between human thought and God's consciousness. > > > > > > George Bowering, M.A. > > Once saw Marianne Moore plain. --------------------------------- See the all-new, redesigned Yahoo.com. Check it out. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 21:12:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dave Subject: Re: philosophy question In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I believe George Carlin covered this in the 70's George: "Faddah: If God is all powerful can he create a rock so big that = he himself can not lift it?" Priest: "It's a mystery my son" Dave -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] = On Behalf Of Diane DiPrima Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 8:52 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: philosophy question Any infinity of necessity contains paradox. [One assumption here being that "god" should posses omnipotence (a kind = of infinity)] On another level, both "do" and "think" are totally meaningless concepts vis-=E0-vis "god". Diane di Prima > From: George Bowering > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 17:30:52 -0700 > To: > Subject: Re: philosophy question >=20 > On 14-Jul-06, at 5:43 AM, Jim Andrews wrote: >=20 >> Anything wrong with this argument? >>=20 >> Proposition A: God can think of something God can't do. >>=20 >> If true, then there is something God can't do. >>=20 >> If false, then there is something God can't do: God cannot think of >> something God can't do. >>=20 >> Therefore (proposition B), there is something God can't do. >>=20 >> ja >> http://vispo.com >>=20 >>=20 >=20 > Old mistake. > That is human philosophical thought, > which is more proof of > (a) humanity's fallen nature > (b) the distance between human thought and God's consciousness. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > George Bowering, M.A. >=20 > Once saw Marianne Moore plain. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 07:31:59 +0530 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: House sitting possiblities or sublet.. SF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I am returning to San Francisco from India with my partner begining of Aug. looking for house sitting possiblites or a short term, long term sublet.. please let me know if you know of anything. thank you.. kari transSubmutation http://transdada3.blogspot.com/ NEW!!! obedience Poetry Factory School. 2005. 86 pages, perfect bound, 6.5x9. ISBN: 1-60001-044-X $12 / $10 direct order Description: obedience, the fourth book by kari edwards, offers a rhythmic disruption of the relative real, a progressive troubling of the phenomenal world, from gross material to the infinitesimal. The book's intention is a transformative mantric dismantling of being. http://www.factoryschool.org/pubs/heretical/index.html http://www.spdbooks.org/SearchResults.asp?AuthorTitle=edwards%2C+kari ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 22:05:38 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: philosophy question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I have enjoyed the responses to this thread, and Aldon's post made me laugh so hard I cried. I take it there were only two serious challenges to my argument. Amy King said: "God can do something God can't do." If God can do the logically impossible then it seems likely to me that reasoning about God is pointless. It's like asserting that 0=1 or true=false. Which is fine but there isn't much of logic left afterwards. I did not understand Catherine's post. It may well be serious but I don't get it. Diane di Prima said: "...both "do" and "think" are totally meaningless concepts vis-à-vis "god"". This may be true but, if so, there is something God can't do. This is the same sort of objection Tom raised. Jason Quackenbush says: "Most competent theologians would have no problem with the assertion that there are things that God can't do, as by omnipotence they generally don't mean that God can do anything, but that god can do anything that it is possible to do." I suspect it's true that competent theologians would have no problem with it, though I have not studied theology, because the notion that God can do anything and everything is demonstrably false. There is nothing paradoxical about it. Phil Primeau says: "Uh, I'm pretty sure the whole "Can God make something so big even he can't move it?"/"Can God cook a burrito so hot even he can't eat it"/"Can God fuck up so badly that even he can't fix it" schtick went out with Voltaire. Or something." Keep in mind that in the thirties Godel basically used propositions such as 'This proposition is not provable' to demonstrate the existence of 'undecidable propositions' (propositions that are well-formed, cannot be assumed to be false, and are unprovable but true). Well-phrased logical conundrums do not disappear forever; they resurface when new methods of logic are brought to bear on them, as Godel did in the thirties. The examples Phil gives are indeed variations on the argument I presented, but Phil's examples, to me, unnecessarily introduce side issues. The central issue is whether there is something God can't do. Best to stick to it and not introduce questions concerning gravity, for instance. I think it's popularly believed that we cannot reason with any certainty about many things. When Georg Cantor presented his 'transfinite arithmetic', which gives us some knowledge about the nature of the infinite, his work was spat upon by prominent mathematicians of the day. But his work is now routinely taught to all undergraduates in mathematics. And it does give us fascinating knowledge about the infinite we did not have prior to his work. And it is gorgeous work. Godel used Cantor's methods in some of Godel's equally profound and gorgeous theorems. Reasoning about God, infinity, and other ideals such as love, truth, justice, and beauty is of course very tricky indeed. But I suspect that if we conclude it simply cannot be done with any precision and utility, we underestimate the power of reason and its capacity to help us clarify and honour our ideals. ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 05:50:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: philosophy question Comments: To: jmichael@ide-a.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit or he's got a big beard and never shaves ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 05:45:28 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: philosophy question - can and can't do MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ha so god's a guy after all? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 15:14:25 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Karl-Erik Tallmo Subject: Re: philosophy question In-Reply-To: <000b01c6a781$42511e30$6400a8c0@ENITHARMON> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Maybe it all boils down to another Ambrose Bierce quotation, his rendering of the cogito: "I think I think; therefore I think I am." My own version is a bit similar to the earlier mentioned "some dog" idea: "I think, therefore something is." That should cover also for the possibility that we are all part of somebody's or something's dream or virtual world. Karl-Erik Tallmo >It reminds me of Ambrose Bierce's defintion: > >GRAVITATION, n. The tendency of all bodies to approach one another >with a strength proportion to the quantity of matter they contain - >the quantity of matter they contain being ascertained by the >strength of their tendency to approach one another. This is a lovely >and edifying illustration of how science, having made A the proof of >B, makes B the proof of A. > >http://www.thedevilsdictionary.com/?G > >~ Dan Zimmerman >----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Andrews" >To: >Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 8:43 AM >Subject: philosophy question > >>Anything wrong with this argument? >> >>Proposition A: God can think of something God can't do. >> >>If true, then there is something God can't do. >> >>If false, then there is something God can't do: God cannot think of >>something God can't do. >> >>Therefore (proposition B), there is something God can't do. >> >>ja >>http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 09:31:50 -0400 Reply-To: "J. Michael Mollohan" Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "J. Michael Mollohan" Organization: idea.s Subject: Re: philosophy question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit After reading everything in this thread, especially Jim Andrews' latest, it begins to look as if the linguistic analysts are right -- the proper domain of philosophy is to discuss the vagaries of language, as, when you get right down to it, everything else is opinion -- there are no "facts." Too, to continue with Karl-Erik's subthread; in "reality" it's not "Cogito Ergo Sum." This postulates a thinker as a given, therefore invoking, IMHO, a post hoc prompter hoc fallacy. Descartes should have said, "Cogito ergo cogitatum." The only thing that can be deduced from thinking is thought, not a thinker. But I may be wrong. . . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karl-Erik Tallmo" To: Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 9:14 AM Subject: Re: philosophy question > Maybe it all boils down to another Ambrose Bierce quotation, his rendering > of the cogito: > > "I think I think; therefore I think I am." > > My own version is a bit similar to the earlier mentioned "some dog" idea: > > "I think, therefore something is." > > That should cover also for the possibility that we are all part of > somebody's or something's dream or virtual world. > > Karl-Erik Tallmo > > > >>It reminds me of Ambrose Bierce's defintion: >> >>GRAVITATION, n. The tendency of all bodies to approach one another with a >>strength proportion to the quantity of matter they contain - the quantity >>of matter they contain being ascertained by the strength of their tendency >>to approach one another. This is a lovely and edifying illustration of how >>science, having made A the proof of B, makes B the proof of A. >> >>http://www.thedevilsdictionary.com/?G >> >>~ Dan Zimmerman >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Andrews" >>To: >>Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 8:43 AM >>Subject: philosophy question >> >>>Anything wrong with this argument? >>> >>>Proposition A: God can think of something God can't do. >>> >>>If true, then there is something God can't do. >>> >>>If false, then there is something God can't do: God cannot think of >>>something God can't do. >>> >>>Therefore (proposition B), there is something God can't do. >>> >>>ja >>>http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 10:42:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: philosophy question Comments: To: "J. Michael Mollohan" In-Reply-To: <01fe01c6a813$084d0c70$6400a8c0@Janus> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 15 Jul 2006 at 9:31, J. Michael Mollohan wrote: > After reading everything in this thread, especially Jim Andrews' > latest, it > begins to look as if the linguistic analysts are right -- the proper > domain > of philosophy is to discuss the vagaries of language, as, when you > get right > down to it, everything else is opinion -- there are no "facts." This is not what I, at least, said. This is antifoundationalism at its potential for the worst. There are, indeed, facts -- we just see those facts through the medium of language, so that we do not apprehend them purely and immediately. But it is not the case that there are "no facts" because we perceive facts through the lens of language. It means that it's hard to perceive the facts as they are without a good deal of work, if we can do it at all. Those who maintain there are "no facts" are welcome to experiment by getting in the car, accelerating to 70 mph, and then swerving abruptly into oncoming traffic while vociferously denying that they are doing so -- and see if it helps. There are facts. We may have a less-than-perfect grasp of those facts through the languages we use, but there are facts. There is a foundational reality that is impervious to our efforts to understand or describe or manipulate without developing an appropriate language. Langauge is important, but it's not everything, as those who would say "there are no facts" would have it. Marcus Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 10:07:03 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: Cody's Books in Berkeley Voice Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi all, I thought some of you might be interested in the local paper's report on Cody's books last day on Telegraph. Apologies if someone already sent this in. Elizabeth http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/news/local/states/california/alameda_county/berkeley/15037362.htm Elizabeth Treadwell http://elizabethtreadwell.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 14:44:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: philosophy question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain This is an all too common misconstrual of an antifoundationalist position -- close cousin to Sokal's open invitation to "postmodernists who don't believe gravity exists" (who would appear themseleves not to exist) to jump out his office window. The phrase "facts on the ground" is a metaphor, a fact forgotten at our peril. If one swerves into approaching traffic at 70 mph while vociferously denying that they are doing so (and to whom is this denial addressed?), one will have an accident. One will have crahed into another vehicle, not into a fact. It will be a fact that one has crashed into another car. Again, who are "those who maintain there are 'no facts'"? that is, aside from posts on this list -- The debate, like the debate about "truth," is a debate about the nature of "fact," what it is to be "factual." Facts exist in language. Our production and manipulation of them will, in fact, have observable effects in the "real" world. "Facts" don't exist out there in the "real" world, waiting for us to "grasp" them. Facts and the grasping of them take place in language. This is not to say that there is nothing but language -- On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 10:42:21 +0000, Marcus Bales wrote: > Those who maintain there are "no facts" are welcome to experiment by > getting in the car, accelerating to 70 mph, and then swerving > abruptly into oncoming traffic while vociferously denying that they > are doing so -- and see if it helps. There are facts. We may have a > less-than-perfect grasp of those facts through the languages we use, > but there are facts. > >> Marcus > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 12:57:24 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: philosophy question In-Reply-To: <200607151844.OAA16888@webmail19.cac.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" wait, aldon -- facts differ from truths though, don't they? -- in that they point to potentially non-discursive realities... that is, they surely function with regard to discourse, but have an element that resists discursive resolution... statements of fact are in fact statements, and will have an effect on what we mean by fact -- but this does not mean that what they reference is itself a statement... we hunt the accident site for verification that an accident took place... we can search through the newspapers too for confirmation, but that's only a related matter... now there are certain kinds of truth (with a capital T) that, for some, point to non-discursive realities (e.g., god)... generally, though, truth is propositional, hence cannot avoid its obligations to discourse, logic and the like... you can posit (truth table) truths, for instance, that are not a matter of verifiability... just create a statement, say it's true, and it's contrapositive must be true (logically)... that kind of validity need not apply to the factual... just to clarify a bit... what this has to do with antifoundationalism is another matter... best, joe >This is an all too common misconstrual of an antifoundationalist position -- >close cousin to Sokal's open invitation to "postmodernists who don't believe >gravity exists" (who would appear themseleves not to exist) to jump out his >office window. > >The phrase "facts on the ground" is a metaphor, a fact forgotten at our peril. >If one swerves into approaching traffic at 70 mph while vociferously denying >that they are doing so (and to whom is this denial addressed?), one will have >an accident. One will have crahed into another vehicle, not into a fact. It >will be a fact that one has crashed into another car. > >Again, who are "those who maintain there are 'no facts'"? that is, aside from >posts on this list -- The debate, like the debate about "truth," is a debate >about the nature of "fact," what it is to be "factual." Facts exist in >language. Our production and manipulation of them will, in fact, have >observable effects in the "real" world. "Facts" don't exist out there in the >"real" world, waiting for us to "grasp" them. Facts and the grasping of them >take place in language. This is not to say that there is nothing but language >-- > >On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 10:42:21 +0000, Marcus Bales wrote: >> Those who maintain there are "no facts" are welcome to experiment by >> getting in the car, accelerating to 70 mph, and then swerving >> abruptly into oncoming traffic while vociferously denying that they >> are doing so -- and see if it helps. There are facts. We may have a >> less-than-perfect grasp of those facts through the languages we use, >> but there are facts. >> >>> Marcus >> >> > ><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > --Emily Dickinson > >Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > >Aldon L. Nielsen >Kelly Professor of American Literature >The Pennsylvania State University >116 Burrowes >University Park, PA 16802-6200 > >(814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 15:24:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: philosophy question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain IF I follow you here, you're positing "fact" as a subcategory of "truth." What a fact references may or may not be a statement -- but in that it differs not at all from any other category of statement -- the word "rock" may be taken as 'pointing" to a non-discursive reality in a way that the word "two" might not, I suppose -- but the key is that "pointing" -- when you search the accident site, you may produce facts, but you're looking at things -- those things become facts in your regard -- Any of us who watches Court TV knows how easily the same "non-discursive" reality can produce quite patently opposed "facts" -- It then becomes the job of the jury, through entirely discursive means, to determine what will be regarded as the fact of the matter. The jury is the trier of fact -- they decide what the fact is -- we then call their report to us "findings" -- speaking of which -- have y'all been following the tangled case in LA where an extrmely expensive car was involved in an accident recently? When the police arrived on the scene they met up with fellows who represented themselves as being homeland security authorities -- the driver was nowhere in evidence -- these are all facts -- we're nowhere ear the truth as yet, though it has been determined that the "homeland security" guys' badges were issued by a local security outfit with no relationship to the actual department of homeland security -- The police arriving at the scene were confronted with a number of facts menat precisely to lead them away from the truth. and we thought poetry was complex! On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 12:57:24 +0000, Joe Amato wrote: > wait, aldon -- facts differ from truths though, don't they? -- in > that they point to potentially non-discursive realities... that is, > they surely function with regard to discourse, but have an element > that resists discursive resolution... statements of fact are in fact > statements, and will have an effect on what we mean by fact -- but > this does not mean that what they reference is itself a statement... > > we hunt the accident site for verification that an accident took > place... we can search through the newspapers too for confirmation, > but that's only a related matter... > > now there are certain kinds of truth (with a capital T) that, for > some, point to non-discursive realities (e.g., god)... generally, > though, truth is propositional, hence cannot avoid its obligations to > discourse, logic and the like... you can posit (truth table) truths, > for instance, that are not a matter of verifiability... just create a > statement, say it's true, and it's contrapositive must be true > (logically)... that kind of validity need not apply to the factual... > > just to clarify a bit... what this has to do with antifoundationalism > is another matter... > > best, > > joe > > >This is an all too common misconstrual of an antifoundationalist position -- > >close cousin to Sokal's open invitation to "postmodernists who don't believe > >gravity exists" (who would appear themseleves not to exist) to jump out his > >office window. > > > >The phrase "facts on the ground" is a metaphor, a fact forgotten at our peril. > >If one swerves into approaching traffic at 70 mph while vociferously denying > >that they are doing so (and to whom is this denial addressed?), one will have > >an accident. One will have crahed into another vehicle, not into a fact. It > >will be a fact that one has crashed into another car. > > > >Again, who are "those who maintain there are 'no facts'"? that is, aside from > >posts on this list -- The debate, like the debate about "truth," is a debate > >about the nature of "fact," what it is to be "factual." Facts exist in > >language. Our production and manipulation of them will, in fact, have > >observable effects in the "real" world. "Facts" don't exist out there in the > >"real" world, waiting for us to "grasp" them. Facts and the grasping of them > >take place in language. This is not to say that there is nothing but language > >-- > > > >On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 10:42:21 +0000, Marcus Bales wrote: > >> Those who maintain there are "no facts" are welcome to experiment by > >> getting in the car, accelerating to 70 mph, and then swerving > >> abruptly into oncoming traffic while vociferously denying that they > >> are doing so -- and see if it helps. There are facts. We may have a > >> less-than-perfect grasp of those facts through the languages we use, > >> but there are facts. > >> > >>> Marcus > >> > >> > > > ><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > > --Emily Dickinson > > > >Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > > > >Aldon L. Nielsen > >Kelly Professor of American Literature > >The Pennsylvania State University > >116 Burrowes > >University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > > >(814) 865-0091 > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 15:38:18 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mike Luster Subject: Re: philosophy question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please, God, show you can do it and make them stop. How many poets can philosophize on the head of a pin? Don't answer that.... mike luster ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 14:01:16 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: philosophy question In-Reply-To: <200607151924.PAA18370@webmail19.cac.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" aldon, i don't think that facts and truths belong to the same category of, uhm, discourse?!... seriously, though -- we don't permit facts the luxury of being simply propositional, and so i don't see the factual as a subcategory of truth (not least b/c i don't think atoms are a subcategory of language -- i'm enough of a realist to suppose that atoms, whatever we name them, are 'out there' independently of my language practices, though here of course we may need new language practices to describe any new understandings of atoms)... i'm willing to grant that facts are not, practically speaking, as factual as we like to think they are, and that this is owing to language, textuality, contextuality, etc... but facts have to be granted some measure of referential stability (if that's the right term) wrt the actual in order to "get at" what they do for us... otherwise, we're getting into (most urgently and in the realm of the human) some slippery ethical territory here of the sort that hayden white inquired into in that great essay, "the politics of historical interpretation: discipline and desublimation"... white, as i recall, takes up this question of holocaust denial, and i think here, aside from more purely philosophical speculation, it would be good to lay our hands on some approximate facts prior to proceeding toward pertinent truths and the like... mike l, i think this has everything to do with poetics, notwithstanding our admittedly armchair approach to some gnarly matters (ditto the earlier comments re paradox and the like, and godel/cantor)... i could make this into a pedagogical issue right quick, but i'm not sure i have the stomach for classroom conversations right now, with a month left before classes start... best, joe >IF I follow you here, you're positing "fact" as a subcategory of "truth." >What a fact references may or may not be a statement -- but in that it differs >not at all from any other category of statement -- the word "rock" >may be taken >as 'pointing" to a non-discursive reality in a way that the word "two" might >not, I suppose -- but the key is that "pointing" -- when you search the >accident site, you may produce facts, but you're looking at things -- those >things become facts in your regard -- Any of us who watches Court TV knows how >easily the same "non-discursive" reality can produce quite patently opposed >"facts" -- It then becomes the job of the jury, through entirely discursive >means, to determine what will be regarded as the fact of the matter. The jury >is the trier of fact -- they decide what the fact is -- we then call their >report to us "findings" -- > >speaking of which -- have y'all been following the tangled case in LA where an >extrmely expensive car was involved in an accident recently? When the police >arrived on the scene they met up with fellows who represented themselves as >being homeland security authorities -- the driver was nowhere in evidence -- >these are all facts -- we're nowhere ear the truth as yet, though it has been >determined that the "homeland security" guys' badges were issued by a local >security outfit with no relationship to the actual department of homeland >security -- > >The police arriving at the scene were confronted with a number of facts menat >precisely to lead them away from the truth. > >and we thought poetry was complex! > >On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 12:57:24 +0000, Joe Amato wrote: > >> wait, aldon -- facts differ from truths though, don't they? -- in >> that they point to potentially non-discursive realities... that is, >> they surely function with regard to discourse, but have an element >> that resists discursive resolution... statements of fact are in fact >> statements, and will have an effect on what we mean by fact -- but >> this does not mean that what they reference is itself a statement... >> >> we hunt the accident site for verification that an accident took >> place... we can search through the newspapers too for confirmation, > > but that's only a related matter... >> >> now there are certain kinds of truth (with a capital T) that, for >> some, point to non-discursive realities (e.g., god)... generally, >> though, truth is propositional, hence cannot avoid its obligations to >> discourse, logic and the like... you can posit (truth table) truths, >> for instance, that are not a matter of verifiability... just create a >> statement, say it's true, and it's contrapositive must be true >> (logically)... that kind of validity need not apply to the factual... >> >> just to clarify a bit... what this has to do with antifoundationalism >> is another matter... >> >> best, >> >> joe >> >> >This is an all too common misconstrual of an antifoundationalist >>position -- >> >close cousin to Sokal's open invitation to "postmodernists who >>don't believe >> >gravity exists" (who would appear themseleves not to exist) to jump out his >> >office window. >> > >> >The phrase "facts on the ground" is a metaphor, a fact forgotten at our >peril. >> >If one swerves into approaching traffic at 70 mph while >>vociferously denying >> >that they are doing so (and to whom is this denial addressed?), >>one will have >> >an accident. One will have crahed into another vehicle, not into >>a fact. It >> >will be a fact that one has crashed into another car. >> > >> >Again, who are "those who maintain there are 'no facts'"? that >>is, aside from >> >posts on this list -- The debate, like the debate about "truth," >>is a debate >> >about the nature of "fact," what it is to be "factual." Facts exist in >> >language. Our production and manipulation of them will, in fact, have >> >observable effects in the "real" world. "Facts" don't exist out >>there in the >> >"real" world, waiting for us to "grasp" them. Facts and the >>grasping of them >> >take place in language. This is not to say that there is nothing but >language >> >-- >> > >> >On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 10:42:21 +0000, Marcus Bales wrote: >> >> Those who maintain there are "no facts" are welcome to experiment by >> >> getting in the car, accelerating to 70 mph, and then swerving >> >> abruptly into oncoming traffic while vociferously denying that they >> >> are doing so -- and see if it helps. There are facts. We may have a >> >> less-than-perfect grasp of those facts through the languages we use, >> >> but there are facts. >> >> >> >>> Marcus >> >> >> >> >> > >> ><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." >> > --Emily Dickinson >> > >> >Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ >> > >> >Aldon L. Nielsen >> >Kelly Professor of American Literature >> >The Pennsylvania State University >> >116 Burrowes >> >University Park, PA 16802-6200 >> > >> >(814) 865-0091 >> >> > ><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > --Emily Dickinson > >Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > >Aldon L. Nielsen >Kelly Professor of American Literature >The Pennsylvania State University >116 Burrowes >University Park, PA 16802-6200 > >(814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 17:29:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: philosophy question In-Reply-To: <200607151844.OAA16888@webmail19.cac.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 15 Jul 2006 at 14:44, ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > If one swerves into approaching traffic at 70 mph while > vociferously denying that they are doing so (and to whom is this > denial addressed?), one will have an accident.< This is, of course, the point, and the rebuttal to the notion that there is no such thing as "facts". The fact is that if you thus swerve as described you will have an accident, no matter how often or to whom you deny that there is any such thing as a "fact". Your denial is unimpressive to the foundational reality irrespective of the sincerity of your belief in antifoundationalism, or the vociferousness of your denial of the foundational reality. > Again, who are "those who maintain there are 'no facts'"?< I quoted one on this very list. His name seems to be J. Michael Mollonhan, thus: On 15 Jul 2006 at 9:31, J. Michael Mollohan wrote: > ... the proper domain of philosophy is to discuss the vagaries of > language, as, when you get right down to it, everything else is > opinion -- there are no "facts." > that is, > aside from > posts on this list < Why aside from them? Isn't that who's talking about this issue? > The debate, like the debate about "truth," is a debate > about the nature of "fact," what it is to be "factual." Facts exist > in language. Our production and manipulation of them will, in fact, > have observable effects in the "real" world. "Facts" don't exist out > there in the "real" world, waiting for us to "grasp" them. Facts and the > grasping of them take place in language. This is not to say that there is nothing > but language -- < When you say there are no facts out there in the real world waiting for us to grasp them, that the only way to grasp facts is "in language" then what you ARE saying is that there is "nothing but language" BECAUSE you've said there are no real facts out there in the real world. The antifoundationalist position is precisely that there are no facts, no real world, only the social construct we make up for ourselves out of our language, expectations, and behaviors. The refutation of this very silly position is to go ahead and swerve into oncoming traffic or jump out Sokal's window. You cannot reasonably have it both ways. If you won't jump out the window or swerve into traffic in order to prove your assertion that there are no facts and no real world, then one thing is obvious: you're not willing to test your antifoundationalist claims. Language is important, but language is not all there is. There IS a real world out there; there ARE facts out in that real world. We can only grasp that world, those facts, THROUGH languages of various kinds (English, Chinese, mathematics, and the like) but that we grasp at reality and facts through an imperfect medium is not a good argument that only the imperfect medium exists. Marcus > On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 10:42:21 +0000, Marcus Bales wrote: > > Those who maintain there are "no facts" are welcome to experiment > by > > getting in the car, accelerating to 70 mph, and then swerving > > abruptly into oncoming traffic while vociferously denying that > they > > are doing so -- and see if it helps. There are facts. We may have > a > > less-than-perfect grasp of those facts through the languages we > use, > > but there are facts. > > > >> Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 18:16:05 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: philosophy question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/15/06 1:06:08 AM, jim@VISPO.COM writes: > I think it's popularly believed that we cannot reason with any certainty > about many things. When Georg Cantor presented his 'transfinite arithmetic', > which gives us some knowledge about the nature of the infinite, his work was > spat upon by prominent mathematicians of the day. But his work is now > routinely taught to all undergraduates in mathematics. And it does give us > fascinating knowledge about the infinite we did not have prior to his work. > And it is gorgeous work. Godel used Cantor's methods in some of Godel's > equally profound and gorgeous theorems. > Jim, Isn't Cantor's concept of "transfinite sets" based on a contradiction, that cardinal numbers (to which always a number can be added) is an aleph zero set "followed" by other aleph sets? It seems to me an authentically new idea always contains a contradiction. an "impossibility," of which the idea of God is one set. > Reasoning about God, infinity, and other ideals such as love, truth, > justice, and beauty is of course very tricky indeed. But I suspect that if > we conclude it simply cannot be done with any precision and utility, we > underestimate the power of reason and its capacity to help us clarify and > honour our ideals. > > I completely agree. Doesn't Spinoza point to the same direction? Ciao, Murat ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 20:08:01 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: philosophy question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable n a message dated 7/15/06 9:32:15 AM, jmichael@IDE-A.NET writes: > Too, to continue with Karl-Erik's subthread; in "reality" it's not "Cogito > Ergo Sum."=A0 This postulates a thinker as a given, therefore invoking, IM= HO, > a post hoc prompter hoc fallacy.=A0 Descartes should have said, "Cogito er= go > cogitatum."=A0 The only thing that can be deduced from thinking is thought= , > not a thinker. >=20 >=20 "I am thinking; therefore I am a thinker" actually says nothing, like saying= =20 a triangle has three sides. Whereas "I think; therefore I am" is an advance=20= in=20 thought, a new way of seeing. Murat ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 10:17:56 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pam Brown Subject: notes on the deletions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit A Book from W.A. Reading Series in S.A. Far North Queensland : Brief notes Sunny Queensland http://thedeletions.blogspot.com have a lookee pam brown ____________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Never miss an Instant Message - Yahoo! Messenger for SMS http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mweb/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 17:46:07 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: philosophy question In-Reply-To: <44B925F5.23030.1DC0D04@marcus.designerglass.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Marcus, > This is, of course, the point, and the rebuttal to the notion that > there is no such thing as "facts". The fact is that if you thus > swerve as described you will have an accident, no matter how often or > to whom you deny that there is any such thing as a "fact". Your > denial is unimpressive to the foundational reality irrespective of > the sincerity of your belief in antifoundationalism, or the > vociferousness of your denial of the foundational reality. I think there's a useful distinction to be made here between "states of affairs" which you are here calling a fact, and what I think of as a fact, meaning the way that states of affairs are represented in language. I really disagree with this notion that the only way we can get at states of affairs is through language, and stating that facts can only be talked about in language is pretty much a tautology and an uninteresting one at that. One problem i do have with your account though, although i may just be misunderstanding you, is what you mean by "foundational reality" and "antifoundationalism." To me these look like unjustifiable metaphysical claims that don't amount to much. If all you mean by them though is the truth of propositions like "if you jump out of a window you will fall" or "if you drive into oncoming traffic, you will have a car accident" then I really don't see what's so special about them that they need this special theory called "foundational reality" to defend them. Can't you just, following uncle ludwig, point to them and go "look and see." I guess my real issue is that all of this really comes down to the distinction between empirical facts and grammatical remarks. For those who aren't familiar with the terminology, the statement that "a dropped object has fallen on the ground" is an empirical fact, in that its truth or falsity can be established by looking at it, and a grammatical fact like "today is saturday" can be established simply by the meaning of the words. Certain meanings are established by convention, and while this can often be arbitrary, it's arbitrariness does not imply that it is in someway subjective or thought dependent. That's just stupid, and so is anyone who says so. But at the same time, there are limits to what can be talked about. Language breaks down beyond it's language-games, and so when you or anyone else starts talking about "foundational reality" or saying that we have a "less than perfect grasp of the facts" it seems to me that you aren't really saying anything meaningful at all. We have a grasp of the facts. In the future, we may have different ideas about those states of affairs, or just talk about those states of affairs in more nuanced ways. Will those facts be different? yes they will be. will that mean that the facts that we used to talk about are not facts? no. Where people get into trouble is by assuming that there is something to the objective correlative idea of truth, that is, that something is true because it corresponds to reality. But that's a meaningless statement. You might as well say "Something is true because it is not false." or worse "Something is true because it is true." It's not precisely circular, but it is an attempt to make an empirical fact out of a grammatical one. The fact of the matter is (hah!) that there are lots of things in ordinary language that we can mean by "fact" and there are lots of ways that we use the word "true." Here is a brief sample for true: true can mean: I agree with that I believe this to be the case It gives me a certain feeling to assert this you'd have to be an idiot to state otherwise or my favorite disquotational definition: to say the sentence "P is F" is true is just to say P is F. Where i think everybody goes off the rails on this stuff is just to forget the differences uncle ludwig wanted to teach us. To ignore the tendency toward idealization and remember that words really only have meaning in their ordinary usage, and it's quite addle brained to try to inflate these ideas into the kinds of garbage that philosophers are wont to talk when they are doing philosophy. From this perspective, both foundationalism and anti-foundationalism are gravely mistaken and our best bet is to stop talking about that metaphysical claptrap by pointing out just how senseless that sort of talk is. which i hope i've gone some way of doing in this email. again Marcus, i never think we're entirely in disagreement, just we like to slice things precisely but in slightly different ways. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 21:13:57 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: clifford Subject: odd god MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Someone I know once said, the question about God is, is that God might he(pronoun used observed) have problems being sure he exists. And someone else said, He's mad God, is and we gotta do that one day,and then again it would not matter if he did exist, and I am god most of the time, when I am not sure I am Satan, and the flow of desire's always been subject to transcendence, and in theology the two got shanghaied, by the christian notion that the "word" was the idea. And so. http://ijeangenet.blogspot.com// ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 00:32:18 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "patrick@proximate.org" Subject: philo Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii "God can do something God can't do." Like photons, for example? Indeterminate dual quantum states are held by very real thing/ings. I'm not arguing for God, but demonstrating some contradictory property of a thing does not imean that thing's existence is impossible. I mean, I am frighteningly contradictory, and yet I exist. I exist, which is a fact and also true. that unicorns exist is a fact, but it isn't true that they do. or, wait, it is true, there is a gloss of 'true,' that supports the notion that unicorns exist. i run into unicorns every so often. many of you just did while reading this. i mean, it's both a fact and true that a unicorn is imaginary, and running into imaginary things is a factual and true experience that is also imaginary. but i'm already falling into the trap of advocating a means to defining meaning. such an effort works best for giving orders, which is of course a revelation of one's will to control others. words such as 'fact' and 'truth' can be defined in so many ways--not only the number of meanings but also the methods used to identify instances of that proliferation of meaning. that is to say descriptive approaches to defining terms, even in the most complex of ways (e.g., semantic networks) have normative elements in their rule sets, and of course normative methods themselves make us feel like we're getting away from the facts and/or truths about the meaning(s) of 'fact' and 'truth.' this essentially describes a rabbit hole. it's relatively simple to find means and methods for defining words for, say, a computational system. but the standards and goals are relatively simpler than the needs here. when we break into philosophy not only do we break into modes of dictating some particular means of thinking but also break into a state where our language requrements are very hi-fi. decontextualized pronouns illustrate well the problems of such an effort. if marcus bales were to demonstrate notions of fact and truth by running in front of a massive and swiftly moving object such as a motor vehicle it would be a redundant act. ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at proximate.org ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 00:59:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Cross Subject: Boston Area Bookstores?? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Can anyone recommend any used bookstores in the Boston area? Thanks, Michael ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 00:14:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: philosophy question In-Reply-To: <501.368c040.31eac325@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed In the back of my mind I keep hearing Johnny Cash singing "What is Truth?"-- a single from the late 1960's--and this from Pascal: "Is there no substantial truth, seeing that there are so many true things which are not truth itself?" That's from the "The Wager" which I highly recommend for what it has to say using probabilty, infinity/nothing, in relation with God, truth . . . a very unique approach! >From: Murat Nemet-Nejat >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: philosophy question >Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 18:16:05 EDT > >In a message dated 7/15/06 1:06:08 AM, jim@VISPO.COM writes: > > > > I think it's popularly believed that we cannot reason with any certainty > > about many things. When Georg Cantor presented his 'transfinite >arithmetic', > > which gives us some knowledge about the nature of the infinite, his work >was > > spat upon by prominent mathematicians of the day. But his work is now > > routinely taught to all undergraduates in mathematics. And it does give >us > > fascinating knowledge about the infinite we did not have prior to his >work. > > And it is gorgeous work. Godel used Cantor's methods in some of Godel's > > equally profound and gorgeous theorems. > > >Jim, > >Isn't Cantor's concept of "transfinite sets" based on a contradiction, that >cardinal numbers (to which always a number can be added) is an aleph zero >set >"followed" by other aleph sets? > >It seems to me an authentically new idea always contains a contradiction. >an >"impossibility," of which the idea of God is one set. > > > Reasoning about God, infinity, and other ideals such as love, truth, > > justice, and beauty is of course very tricky indeed. But I suspect that >if > > we conclude it simply cannot be done with any precision and utility, we > > underestimate the power of reason and its capacity to help us clarify >and > > honour our ideals. > > > > >I completely agree. Doesn't Spinoza point to the same direction? > >Ciao, > >Murat _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 01:15:38 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: philo Comments: To: patrick@PROXIMATE.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 7/16/06 12:34:23 AM, patrick@PROXIMATE.ORG writes: > "God can do something God can't do." >=20 > Like photons, for example?=A0 Indeterminate dual quantum states are held b= y=20 > very real thing/ings.=A0 I'm not arguing for God, but demonstrating some=20 > contradictory property of a thing does not imean that thing's existence is= =20 > impossible.=A0 I mean, I am frighteningly contradictory, and yet I exist.= =A0 >=20 Patrick, It is great to hear from you. As usual, you have put something in a crystal=20 clear way. In some way you are arguing for God, or its equivalent. Don't contraditions=20 implicitly point to language or a mathematical system? "Facts" are empirical= .=20 To say both statements may be true is to believe in metaphysics, in the Kant= ian=20 sense. What is metaphysics about? Is it a sickness, as my philosophy=20 professor said when I was in college, or is it a linguistic confusion? Or is= it a=20 human condition, rattling one's cage? Ciao, Murat > the > I exist, which is a fact and also true.=A0 that unicorns exist is a fact,=20= but=20 > it isn't true that they do.=A0 or, wait, it is true, there is a gloss of=20 > 'true,' that supports the notion that unicorns exist.=A0 i run into unicor= ns every so=20 > often.=A0 many of you just did while reading this.=A0 i mean, it's both a=20= fact=20 > and true that a unicorn is imaginary, and running into imaginary things is= a=20 > factual and true experience that is also imaginary.=A0 but i'm already fal= ling=20 > into the trap of advocating a means to defining meaning.=A0 such an effort= works=20 > best for giving orders, which is of course a revelation of one's will to=20 > control others. >=20 > words such as 'fact' and 'truth' can be defined in so many ways--not only=20 > the number of meanings but also the methods used to identify instances of=20= that=20 > proliferation of meaning.=A0 that is to say descriptive approaches to defi= ning=20 > terms, even in the most complex of ways (e.g., semantic networks) have=20 > normative elements in their rule sets, and of course normative methods the= mselves=20 > make us feel like we're getting away from the facts and/or truths about th= e=20 > meaning(s) of 'fact' and 'truth.'=A0 this essentially describes a rabbit h= ole.=A0 >=20 > it's relatively simple to find means and methods for defining words for,=20 > say, a computational system.=A0 but the standards and goals are relatively= simpler=20 > than the needs here.=A0 when we break into philosophy not only do we break= =20 > into modes of dictating some particular means of thinking but also break i= nto a=20 > state where our language requrements are very hi-fi.=A0 decontextualized=20 > pronouns illustrate well the problems of such an effort.=A0 >=20 > if marcus bales were to demonstrate notions of fact and truth by running i= n=20 > front of a massive and swiftly moving object such as a motor vehicle it wo= uld=20 > be a redundant act. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 00:12:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dale Smith Subject: philosophy and rhetoric In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I'm in graduate school now studying rhetoric and thinking about some of these things or I wouldn't be posting to this philo thread. One thing the rhetoric tradition offers is a way to engage the world through reason, not in order to obtain truth, but to work in the realm of doxa. The classical rhet folks stress probability over truth. And there's Hume, who I've been reading all summer, who says reason is just what forces its way into our understanding of certain relations of experience. It's a kind of fundamental instinct (of which Aristotle says plenty), but it doesn't bring us any closer to clarity or truth or whatever. The imagination, reason's strange double, somehow seems like a more useful tool for achieving an understanding of the situation we encounter day-to-day. And, you know, according to the big shots, like Boethius as he confronted his own ticket out of here, its the union of sensation, reason, AND imagination that generates a meaning that gets us beyond the sludge of every day impressions. "Precision" I appreciate, but "utility" seems so blah and unnecessary. If there's anything philosophy could offer it would be a way to approach uselessness--though that would be a poetics--and leave us dancing, not doing My 2 cents, Dale >Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 22:05:38 -0700 >From: Jim Andrews >Subject: Re: philosophy question > >... > >Reasoning about God, infinity, and other ideals such as love, truth, >justice, and beauty is of course very tricky indeed. But I suspect that if >we conclude it simply cannot be done with any precision and utility, we >underestimate the power of reason and its capacity to help us clarify and >honour our ideals.fds > >ja >http://vispo.com > -- Dale Smith 2925 Higgins Street Austin, Texas 78722 www.skankypossum.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 10:00:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: hsn Subject: Re: philo In-Reply-To: <557.2d325af.31eb257a@aol.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable hi murat and patrick. patrick, among other great points you sd (fresh air!) >> Like photons, for example?=A0 Indeterminate dual quantum states are held b= y >> very real thing/ings.=A0 I'm not arguing for God, but demonstrating some >> contradictory property of a thing does not imean that thing's existence = is >> impossible.=A0 I mean, I am frighteningly contradictory, and yet I exist.=A0 "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. The opposite of = a profound truth may well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr Murat sd > In some way you are arguing for God, or its equivalent. Don't contraditio= ns > implicitly point to language or a mathematical system? "Facts" are empiri= cal. > To say both statements may be true is to believe in metaphysics, in the > Kantian sense. What is metaphysics about? Is it a sickness, as my philoso= phy > professor said when I was in college, or is it a linguistic confusion? Or= is > it a human condition, rattling one's cage? seems to me the line between physics and metaphysics is continual disappearing act, arguably the entire point of scientific investigation. as Bertrand Russell says (i'm full of Russell quotes this week),"The world is full of magical things patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper." what seems like metaphysics today... what seems like god today... anyway, i get joy from the idea that over time we can disentangle a bit mor= e of our psychology (fear, superstition in particular) from our understanding of How Things Work. the idea of simultaneity, as well as reciprocal causality, seems to irk people & is hence omitted from the conversations wherein they're most relevant. "What men really want is not knowledge but certainty," again, Bertrand Russell (also "Most people would rather die than think; in fact,they do so.")=20 i sometimes get rather riled about it. the elephant in the room. happy sunday, hassen *BTW, FS Fitzgerald sd, "The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in mind at the same time and still retai= n the ability to function." =20 On 7/16/06 1:15 AM, "Murat Nemet-Nejat" wrote: > In a message dated 7/16/06 12:34:23 AM, patrick@PROXIMATE.ORG writes: >=20 >=20 >> "God can do something God can't do." >>=20 >> Like photons, for example?=A0 Indeterminate dual quantum states are held b= y >> very real thing/ings.=A0 I'm not arguing for God, but demonstrating some >> contradictory property of a thing does not imean that thing's existence = is >> impossible.=A0 I mean, I am frighteningly contradictory, and yet I exist.=A0 >>=20 >=20 > Patrick, >=20 > It is great to hear from you. As usual, you have put something in a cryst= al > clear way. >=20 > In some way you are arguing for God, or its equivalent. Don't contraditio= ns > implicitly point to language or a mathematical system? "Facts" are empiri= cal. > To say both statements may be true is to believe in metaphysics, in the > Kantian=20 > sense. What is metaphysics about? Is it a sickness, as my philosophy > professor said when I was in college, or is it a linguistic confusion? Or= is > it a=20 > human condition, rattling one's cage? >=20 > Ciao, >=20 > Murat >> the >> I exist, which is a fact and also true.=A0 that unicorns exist is a fact, = but >> it isn't true that they do.=A0 or, wait, it is true, there is a gloss of >> 'true,' that supports the notion that unicorns exist.=A0 i run into unicor= ns >> every so=20 >> often.=A0 many of you just did while reading this.=A0 i mean, it's both a fa= ct >> and true that a unicorn is imaginary, and running into imaginary things = is a >> factual and true experience that is also imaginary.=A0 but i'm already fal= ling >> into the trap of advocating a means to defining meaning.=A0 such an effort >> works=20 >> best for giving orders, which is of course a revelation of one's will to >> control others. >>=20 >> words such as 'fact' and 'truth' can be defined in so many ways--not onl= y >> the number of meanings but also the methods used to identify instances o= f >> that=20 >> proliferation of meaning.=A0 that is to say descriptive approaches to defi= ning >> terms, even in the most complex of ways (e.g., semantic networks) have >> normative elements in their rule sets, and of course normative methods >> themselves=20 >> make us feel like we're getting away from the facts and/or truths about = the >> meaning(s) of 'fact' and 'truth.'=A0 this essentially describes a rabbit h= ole.=A0 >>=20 >> it's relatively simple to find means and methods for defining words for, >> say, a computational system.=A0 but the standards and goals are relatively >> simpler=20 >> than the needs here.=A0 when we break into philosophy not only do we break >> into modes of dictating some particular means of thinking but also break= into >> a=20 >> state where our language requrements are very hi-fi.=A0 decontextualized >> pronouns illustrate well the problems of such an effort.=A0 >>=20 >> if marcus bales were to demonstrate notions of fact and truth by running= in >> front of a massive and swiftly moving object such as a motor vehicle it = would >> be a redundant act. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 10:31:05 -0500 Reply-To: dgodston@sbcglobal.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Godston Subject: Lower & Upper Limits on Tuesday In-Reply-To: <44B6FDEE.8050807@shaw.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Poets and fiction writers involved with the Neighborhood Writing Alliance will perform with The Ways & Means Trio at Muse Café — 8-10 p.m. on Tuesday, July 18 as part of the Lower & Upper Limits series The Neighborhood Writing Alliance (NWA) provides opportunities for adults to reflect on, discuss, and write about their personal histories and everyday experiences. We host weekly writing workshops in Bronzeville, Douglas, Uptown, West Englewood, East Garfield Park, Hyde Park/Woodlawn, the Near West Side, and South Lawndale. The Neighborhood Writing Alliance believes that writing about personal experiences and one’s neighborhood—and sharing those experiences–can lead to increased community involvement. Workshop participants read and perform their work at public venues throughout Chicago. Participants are published in our quarterly magazine, the Journal of Ordinary Thought(JOT), with its motto, Every Person Is a Philosopher. Lower & Upper Limits is a series at Muse Café that explores collaborations between poets and musicians and relationships between language and music. The Ways & Means Trio is Jayve Montgomery (reeds, percussion, electronics), Joel Wanek (upright bass, cello), and Daniel Godston (trumpet, percussion). The title of this series is taken from Louis Zukofsky’s “A-12”: “I’ll tell you. / About my poetics -- music / speech / An integral / Lower limit speech / Upper limit music.” Lower & Upper Limits happens at Muse Café on the third Tuesday of the month. Ways & Means will be performing with Toni Asante Lightfoot on Tuesday, August 15. Muse Café is at 817 N. Milwaukee Ave. in Chicago, and the phone number is 312.850.2233. The Chicago station on the CTA blue line is a half a block away. This event is free and open to the public, donations appreciated. For more information about the Neighborhood Writing Alliance, please contact (773) 684-2742 or editors@jot.org, or visit their website at www.jot.org. For more information, visit these websites: www.musecafechicago.com & http://jayvejohnmontgomery.com/. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 11:47:01 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Wilcox Subject: Third Thursday Open Mic, Albany NY Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed the Poetry Motel Foundation presents Third Thursday Open Mic for Poets now at the Social Justice Center 33 Central Ave., Albany Thursday, July 20, 2006=09 7:00 sign up; 7:30 start Featured Poet: Donald Lev Editor of =93Home Planet News=94 & author of a number of poetry = collections=20 & chapbooks, including =93Enemies of Time=94 (Warthog Press), &=20 =93Yesterday=92s News=94 (Red Hill Outloudbooks). $3.00 donation. Your host, again in our new venue, Dan Wilcox. FOG (for Enid) by Donald Lev there was a fog of course that altered our plans the extra concern the peering through cotton smoke exhausted me by the time we got to hurley so we decided to get off the road at kingston, rest awhile, and found this little french bistro there in uptown kingston you were beautiful, talked of the brontes =96 maybe thinking of fog on the moors =96 how branwell actually published some poetry, and charlotte fell in love with her belgian teacher =96 over pate soup red wine and this terrific chocolate concoction with =93angel hair=94 spider webs of sugar and the owner gave us champagne on the house because of our pleasure? and we went out and the fog hadn=92t lifted but it had. ### ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 11:54:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Wilcox Subject: Poets in the Park, July 22, Albany, NY Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Poets in the Park, 2006: Poets Bob Sharkey & Virginia Osborn, with EYBE to read July 22 The third reading in the Poets in the Park series will be on July 22=20 and will feature poets Bob Sharkey, Virginia Osborn & a reading of=20 poems by prisoners. Bob Sharkey is an active member of the local open mic poetry community=20= and has been featured at several readings in the area. He has been=20 published in many small press periodicals and has self-published a=20 chapbook =93The Yellow Fairy=94. Virginia Osborn, Texas native, now a New York angel, graduated from=20 Columbia (Suma Cum Laude), honed her meditative and writing skills as a=20= Sister in a silent order teaching in NYC for 25 yrs. She now devotes=20 much of her time volunteering in prisons. EYBE: Ne'er do well, streetwise dropout hoping to capture a bit of=20 Virginia's spirit and knowledge by osmosis, plays bodyguard, guide and=20= all around "handyman". His current role is left-hand man to Virginia=20 in her creative writing/poetry class in Coxsackie CF. =93Poets in the Park=94, has been celebrating poetry in July at the = Robert=20 Burns statue in Washington Park, Albany, NY since 1989. The series,=20 formerly run by the late Tom Nattell and now hosted by Dan Wilcox, will=20= continue with readings through July 29; the readings start at 7:00 PM=20 and are free & open to the public. The Robert Burns statue is near=20 where Henry Johnson Blvd. passes through Washington Park and crosses=20 Hudson Ave. The last of the schedule of readings is: July 29: Bernadette Mayer and Carol Graser Rain dates for each event are the following Sunday, same time, same=20 place. Please bring your own chairs or blankets to sit on. Sponsored by the Poetry Motel Foundation. For more information contact=20= Dan Wilcox, at dwlcx@earthlink.net; 518-482-0262. =20= ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 10:06:25 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: philosophy question In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" in reading over this thread, it occurs to me that we might do well to distinguish between certain species of fact... that facts are often proven not to be facts, over time, suggests as much... for instance, i know that i will die... my death, that is, will ultimately become what, for me (and i hope, for others!), is an incontrovertible fact... now, history may well intervene to suggest that i'd never even lived -- and this falsehood may become a fact... so of course, fact is subject to the whims of history, for one, to the operations of discourse... one ethical obligation here, then, would be to restore to the world the correct grasp of the actual, i.e., in my case, the fact that i lived and died... but the fact that people are born and die, breathe and stop breathing -- that particular generalization re the mortal coil hasn't changed a whole helluvalot over past millennia... how we understand this fact is of course entirely mutable, culturally specific, etc... but as whitehead put it, there is no parting from your own shadow (and his "fallacy of mispaced concreteness" has a lot to do, perhaps, with why fact itself can seem at times so unfactual)... perhaps human fact and physical fact operate somewhat differently, but to deny that facts are purely discursive on the basis of those many past facts that are no longer understood to be facts (b/c of faulty politics, or faulty conjecture, or faulty experiment, or what have you) is, to me, to miss a key and absolutely vital distinction... future generations may indeed posit that the holocaust never happened, for instance, and they may call this a fact... i rather doubt it... but we know, i hope and in any case, that such a belief is predicated on sheer falsehood... as we like to say, the fact is that it DID happen... fact, that is, points to the actual---this is its function semantically, even ethically---regardless of whether it points correctly... so if fact is imbricated in discourse, it's nonetheless the case that its purpose as a word (if you will) is to permit us to designate a (variously, sure) stable aspect of the real... its referential designations, that is, point for me to many things that are undeniably actual (out of which we get, or ought to get, statements of truth---but truth is another matter, as is logic, though i suspect, to be something of a positivist about it, that one could make a pretty good case for a necessary correlation twixt these categories)... at any rate, it's probably true (!), too, that, at bottom, there's an act of faith in assuming a relative stability in any number of facts... i have faith, that is, that the holocaust happened, even though i wasn't there, and this faith has nothing whatever to do, at this point, in any future "evidence" that might be contrived to prove otherwise (sometimes being stubbornly close-minded might not be a bad thing!)... i have faith in the tenets of evolutionary theory, too, whatever problems there might be with same, over and against what is being called intelligent design... i would observe, as well, that a similar act of faith inheres in the desire to see fact as *entirely* subject to the mutability of discourse, truth statements, etc. (i.e., as entirely a matter of historical/human/and even grammatical contingency)... but again, i would argue that this is not the function of the word, "fact" -- and we needn't go to the dictionary to figure this out, either... anyway... when i got up this morning, my feet hit the ground... really, they really did, i swear... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 14:15:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: philosophy question In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As I understand (or misunderstand) it, a factual statement is one that is capable of verification, whether it's true or not (as opposed to, say, a judgment--which is not capable of being proven or verified). So, yes, there are categories of fact: those that are or prove to be true, those that are not, and those that may or may not be. Hal, no philosophe "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@gmail.com halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Jul 16, 2006, at 11:06 AM, Joe Amato wrote: > in reading over this thread, it occurs to me that we might do well > to distinguish between certain species of fact... that facts are > often proven not to be facts, over time, suggests as much... for > instance, i know that i will die... my death, that is, will > ultimately become what, for me (and i hope, for others!), is an > incontrovertible fact... now, history may well intervene to suggest > that i'd never even lived -- and this falsehood may become a > fact... so of course, fact is subject to the whims of history, for > one, to the operations of discourse... one ethical obligation here, > then, would be to restore to the world the correct grasp of the > actual, i.e., in my case, the fact that i lived and died... > > but the fact that people are born and die, breathe and stop > breathing -- that particular generalization re the mortal coil > hasn't changed a whole helluvalot over past millennia... how we > understand this fact is of course entirely mutable, culturally > specific, etc... but as whitehead put it, there is no parting from > your own shadow (and his "fallacy of mispaced concreteness" has a > lot to do, perhaps, with why fact itself can seem at times so > unfactual)... perhaps human fact and physical fact operate somewhat > differently, but to deny that facts are purely discursive on the > basis of those many past facts that are no longer understood to be > facts (b/c of faulty politics, or faulty conjecture, or faulty > experiment, or what have you) is, to me, to miss a key and > absolutely vital distinction... > > future generations may indeed posit that the holocaust never > happened, for instance, and they may call this a fact... i rather > doubt it... but we know, i hope and in any case, that such a belief > is predicated on sheer falsehood... as we like to say, the fact is > that it DID happen... fact, that is, points to the actual---this is > its function semantically, even ethically---regardless of whether > it points correctly... so if fact is imbricated in discourse, it's > nonetheless the case that its purpose as a word (if you will) is to > permit us to designate a (variously, sure) stable aspect of the > real... its referential designations, that is, point for me to many > things that are undeniably actual (out of which we get, or ought to > get, statements of truth---but truth is another matter, as is > logic, though i suspect, to be something of a positivist about it, > that one could make a pretty good case for a necessary correlation > twixt these categories)... > > at any rate, it's probably true (!), too, that, at bottom, there's > an act of faith in assuming a relative stability in any number of > facts... i have faith, that is, that the holocaust happened, even > though i wasn't there, and this faith has nothing whatever to do, > at this point, in any future "evidence" that might be contrived to > prove otherwise (sometimes being stubbornly close-minded might not > be a bad thing!)... i have faith in the tenets of evolutionary > theory, too, whatever problems there might be with same, over and > against what is being called intelligent design... i would observe, > as well, that a similar act of faith inheres in the desire to see > fact as *entirely* subject to the mutability of discourse, truth > statements, etc. (i.e., as entirely a matter of historical/human/ > and even grammatical contingency)... but again, i would argue that > this is not the function of the word, "fact" -- and we needn't go > to the dictionary to figure this out, either... > > anyway... when i got up this morning, my feet hit the ground... > really, they really did, i swear... > > best, > > joe ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 15:33:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: philosophy question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain It still looks to me like a more basic distinction is being slipped here -- again, you have it right when you say that "facts" point to something, but then you consistently conflate "facts" with that to which they point -- which was the point I was trying to make in the first place -- the "antifoundationalist" position does not say there is no material reality, nor does it say that there are no facts -- It tries to keep from conflating facts with that which Dr. Johnson kicked his foot against in refuting Bishop Berkeley -- ------------------ responding to other responses I first met a nephew of Wittgenstein thirty-five years ago -- His response to everything other than his own thought was that it was either (1) nonsense, or (2) trivial -- unfotunately, I let that experience hold me back from reading Uncle himself for several years - I'm glad I got over that reluctance -- the reason I asked for the names of people not posting to this list who didn't believe there is such a thing as a fact goes back to our experience with the postmodern thread a few weeks ago. When I asked who among theorists of the postmodern had said that there is no such thing as truth, I was supplied with a quotation, not from a theorist of the postmodern, but from somebody opposed to them who accused tham of saying there is no such thing as truth -- So, when I asked who says there is no such thing as fact (as opposed to somebody who has an arugment about what facts are and what they mean), it was in hopes of hearing of somebody I could go read who actually held such a position, as opposed to having such a position ascribed to him or her -- __________ back to my good friend and correspondent Joe -- There are indeed several species of fact -- and let us not forget Norman Mailer's identification of its close cousin, the factoid -- and as to antifoundationalism -- it should be seen as an argument about how one meets the ethical obligation to restore the correct grasp of the actual -- how to know what "correct" is -- which entails knowing what "grasping" a fact means -- It does not mean grasping the dead, or grasping their death -- It may mean grasping that they have died -- an entirely different matter -- and we should never forget Mr. Schlemiel (sp?), the unfortunate who was indeed parted from his own shadow -- a fate so sad that his name, if not its correct spelling, lives on among us -- yours, the shadow <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 13:33:34 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: nuclear energy... In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" ok, i thought i'd change the subject -- or try to (b/c i'm sounding too labored even to my own ears re this matter of fact vs --) -- by calling attention to an excellent and timely piece that appears in today's ~new york times magazine~, by jon gertner, "atomic balm?"... gertner hits all the right notes re nuclear power, to my way of thinking, and it seems to me we should all be thinking about this stuff... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 13:00:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: philosophy question In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "No one shall expel us from the Paradise that Cantor has created." David Hilbert Now there's academic approval for you. Kind of late for Cantor himself--was he dead by then or just living the rest of his life without the creativity he brought to the transfinite and set theory more generally? Then Godel used Cantor's methods in a yet deeper approach to the foundations of mathematics. He enumerated all possible mathematical truths and, using Cantor's 'diagonal argument', showed the set to be uncountable, allowing him to develop his 'incompleteness theorems'. He looked at systems of logic sort of as contemporary writers look at writing/language sometimes, as systems of material symbols and deduced some of the limits of such systems of symbols/thought. Then Turing used Godel's (and Cantor's) methods to put the last nail in the coffin of Hilbert's paradise: he showed that it is not possible to devise a general algorithm to decide the truth of any well-formed proposition of mathematics. The 'decision problem', the Entscheidungsproblem. Yet it was also Turing who devised the theory of the language/logic machine and suspected it was sufficient to create thought itself. Thought circumscribed by the limitations of systems of countably infinite combinatoriums of language. "Cantor's Paradise" is still present there: all this work assumes the countably, actually infinite, not merely the 'potentially infinite'. The useful dividing line in language is not between the 'potentially' and the 'actually' infinite but between the countably and the uncountably infinite. "The Paradise that Cantor has created" is rich enough to allow us to begin to do the sort of 'meta-mathematics' that allows us to understand some of the limitations of mathematics and logic. And to understand limitations not always as simply deficits to be rectified but as lines drawn that provide shape and form. The limits of a body give it visible shape. So that it becomes possible to acknowledge limitations, even in notions of God's power, do not so much diminish as give shape to what is rationally possible in conceptions of the universe where there is yet room for the infinite. It has been quite encouraging to see the explosion of posts to Poetics on a philosophy question, in a way. I think we all wonder, sometimes, whither poetry. Perhaps we can tell our grandchildren that we lived in a time when it may have looked like poetry disappeared, but actually what happened was it underwent a deep transformation that saw it enter into very many undertakings it had not been so present in before. So that, yes, in a sense it partially disappeared, but it was sort of like its atoms were dispersed into many other endevours, and informed these endevours with intense concern about language, because notions of language were changing to be more inclusive of types of language beyond the written word. And this spread of concern about language into many other arts and other endevours was given special impetus by the development of the computer because it is a language and logic machine and represents whatever media or information it touches in a whole range of types of languages--but yes, with language. So the poets sometimes found themselves wondering if they were poets anymore or something else. And some of the visual artists or musicians or even programmers, mathematicians, logicians and philosophers wondered whether they were these things anymore or had become poets. ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 13:16:09 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andy Gricevich Subject: Experimental/Political Theater & Music Trio MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello, all! This is Andy Gricevich, habitual lurker and regular reader. Many subscribers to this list would be likely, I think, to enjoy the work of THE NONSENSE COMPANY, a trio (of which I'm a member) performing original experimental theater and chamber music focusing on what seem to us to be crucial (and unanswered) social and political questions and problems, and taking special account of questions of language raised by contemporary poetry. Within the next month, we're performing in two Fringe theater festivals in towns where no-one knows who we are: Des Moines and Minneapolis. If any of you are in those towns, or know people there who might be interested in what we do, I'm sure we can use the audience... and I think these are important pieces that need to be seen. We'll be performing three works by Company member Rick Burkhardt: In Des Moines, Thurs. 7/20-Sun. 7/23, we'll perform "The Climb Up Mount Chimborazo," a 90-minute meditation on the relationship between Simon Bolivar, liberator of South America, and his tutor, Don Simon Robinson. Historical and contemporary materials are interwoven in a variety of ways to produce a fugal investigation of the writing and erasure of history, by turns tender and angry, straightforward and nearly hermetic, funny and mournful, and many places in between. Interactions between characters are accompanied by simultaneously performed texts (their phonemes spread between the three performers) from other periods, derailed by reflections on the process of acting, and interrupted by historical and contemporary references (the work of scientist-explorers, current events in Venezuela and Bolivia, critiques of sexism & heterosexism in narrative, advertising, sex education), a right-wing talk show performed by animal puppets, and a litany of battles in the form of a dense poetic monologue woven from the works of Whitman, Zukofsky, Ginsberg, Kipling and Galeano. More information (inlcuding a full script) is at http://www.princemyshkins.com/chimborazopage.html, and a full schedule is at http://www.iowafringe.com. In Minneapolis, August 3-7, we'll perform two works: "Great Hymn of Thanksgiving," a piece for three virtuoso speaking percussionists around a dinner table setup, in which "the sounds of conversation have been replaced by fragments of news reports from Iraq, scraps from the Army prayer manual, invented Arab folk tales, and a recurring State of Emergency pointing everywhere and leading nowhere. The sounds of the table itself struggle to bring this “conversation” into a confrontation with material reality. The piece is a trio between the functions of music, noise, and semantic meaning, wherein each function can mingle with the others, lose itself in reveries (under fields of motive force that assert themselves with varying degrees of insistence), or, when necessary, take a solo" (composer's note). and "Conversation Storm," in which three friends from three sides of the political spectrum argue about torture via a hypothetical "ticking time bomb" scenario, brutalizing their own positions in the process. The disastrous consequences of this argument are reflected back on the mechanisms of theater itself, raising the question of how one can write a play about torture without rationalizing it--even in opposing it. The schedule and other information is at http://www.fringefestival.org. Hope this sparks curiosity. all the best, Andy Gricevich http://www.princemyshkins.com/nonsensecompany.html http://ndgwriting.blogspot.com --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 16:51:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: philosophy question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Yes Jim -- Poetry can be a place of ghostlier demarcatons, keener sounds -- On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 13:00:05 +0000, Jim Andrews wrote: > "No one shall expel us from the Paradise that Cantor has created." > David Hilbert > > Now there's academic approval for you. Kind of late for Cantor himself--was > he dead by then or just living the rest of his life without the creativity > he brought to the transfinite and set theory more generally? > > Then Godel used Cantor's methods in a yet deeper approach to the foundations > of mathematics. He enumerated all possible mathematical truths and, using > Cantor's 'diagonal argument', showed the set to be uncountable, allowing him > to develop his 'incompleteness theorems'. He looked at systems of logic sort > of as contemporary writers look at writing/language sometimes, as systems of > material symbols and deduced some of the limits of such systems of > symbols/thought. > > Then Turing used Godel's (and Cantor's) methods to put the last nail in the > coffin of Hilbert's paradise: he showed that it is not possible to devise a > general algorithm to decide the truth of any well-formed proposition of > mathematics. The 'decision problem', the Entscheidungsproblem. Yet it was > also Turing who devised the theory of the language/logic machine and > suspected it was sufficient to create thought itself. Thought circumscribed > by the limitations of systems of countably infinite combinatoriums of > language. "Cantor's Paradise" is still present there: all this work assumes > the countably, actually infinite, not merely the 'potentially infinite'. The > useful dividing line in language is not between the 'potentially' and the > 'actually' infinite but between the countably and the uncountably infinite. > > "The Paradise that Cantor has created" is rich enough to allow us to begin > to do the sort of 'meta-mathematics' that allows us to understand some of > the limitations of mathematics and logic. And to understand limitations not > always as simply deficits to be rectified but as lines drawn that provide > shape and form. The limits of a body give it visible shape. > > So that it becomes possible to acknowledge limitations, even in notions of > God's power, do not so much diminish as give shape to what is rationally > possible in conceptions of the universe where there is yet room for the > infinite. > > It has been quite encouraging to see the explosion of posts to Poetics on a > philosophy question, in a way. I think we all wonder, sometimes, whither > poetry. Perhaps we can tell our grandchildren that we lived in a time when > it may have looked like poetry disappeared, but actually what happened was > it underwent a deep transformation that saw it enter into very many > undertakings it had not been so present in before. So that, yes, in a sense > it partially disappeared, but it was sort of like its atoms were dispersed > into many other endevours, and informed these endevours with intense concern > about language, because notions of language were changing to be more > inclusive of types of language beyond the written word. And this spread of > concern about language into many other arts and other endevours was given > special impetus by the development of the computer because it is a language > and logic machine and represents whatever media or information it touches in > a whole range of types of languages--but yes, with language. So the poets > sometimes found themselves wondering if they were poets anymore or something > else. And some of the visual artists or musicians or even programmers, > mathematicians, logicians and philosophers wondered whether they were these > things anymore or had become poets. > > ja > http://vispo.com > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 16:33:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Re: your name in a birthday poem for whitman! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Okay. Here's the poem:=20 http://blog.myspace.com/orthodontist=20 (Dated Saturday, July 15) I know it wasn't really Walt Whitman's birthday, but I didn't know how = else to fulfill my promise. =20 Aaron ________________________________________ From: Aaron Belz [mailto:aaron@belz.net]=20 Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 10:42 AM To: 'POETICS@listserv.buffalo.edu' Subject: your name in a birthday poem for whitman!=20 Here's today's promotional gimmick:=20 As we all know, it=92s Walt's hundred and somethingth birthday. If he accomplished nothing else, he reminded us that grass does, technically, = have leaves. I was just thinking the other day how awesome grass is, in fact. = Today and today only, (Friday, July fourteenth), I will include the = names of everyone who gives a buck to http://observable.org/dollar/ in a new = Whitman Birthday poem, and I=92ll submit that poem to Atlantic, New Yorker, and = the Nation! =A0You can bet your observable dollar it will be accepted, too!! = And of course, you'll be listed as a Gentle Citizen.=20 Love- Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 19:33:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: e-mail for Kevin Young, Richard Foreman, Tan Lin? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed If you have an e-mail address or other contact info for Kevin Young, Richard Foreman, or Tan Lin, please send along back channel to me at: gpsullivan@hotmail.com Thanks. Gary Sullivan ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 20:09:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: ossian and authenticy - & conchology blog MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com OSSIAN AND "AUTHENTICITY" (Ossianticity and The Real Thing) OSSIAN WHITMAN OSSIAN WHITMAN OSSIAN THE HORROR OF GOOGLING ONESELF REGARDING THE PRACTICE OF URINATION IN THE HUMAN MALE http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 23:27:24 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Ciccariello Subject: And the deceased leads you towards reality MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Poem as landscape. "And the deceased leads you towards reality", http://tinyurl.com/ox3aw -- Peter Ciccariello http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 20:54:45 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: you gave up your body, they wanted your clothes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Greetings, martyrs and malcontents! Now up at www.UnlikelyStories.org: "Tuol Sleng," a short film shot in the Phnom Penh prison "Looking at the Floor," a spoken word and musical piece by Spiel and Jack Moss Nine Drawings by Diana Magallón Enjoying midwinter, -- Jonathan Penton http://www.unlikelystories.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 06:28:24 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: philosophy question In-Reply-To: <200607161933.PAA24761@webmail2.cac.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 16 Jul 2006 at 15:33, ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > It still looks to me like a more basic distinction is being slipped > here -- again, you have it right when you say that "facts" point to > something, but then you consistently conflate "facts" with that to > which they point -- which was the point I was trying to make in > the first place -- the "antifoundationalist" position does not say > there is no material reality, nor does it say that there are no > facts -- It tries to keep from conflating facts with that which > Dr.Johnson kicked his foot against in refuting Bishop Berkeley< This is merely redefining the word "facts" to mean "an utterance" or "a statement" or "a proposition" or the like in order to speak about "facts" as if they were solely artifacts of language. But to do so is in fact to deny the ordinary use of the word "facts", which is used to talk about that which Johnson kicked in refuting Berkeley. It's a semantic trick, a rhetorical game, merely -- it is not a refinement, it's a shuffle. > ... when I asked who says there is no such thing as fact (as > opposed to somebody who has an arugment about what facts are and > what they mean), it was in hopes of hearing of somebody I could go > read who actually held such a position, as opposed to having such a > position ascribed to him or her< We're having this discussion here. One of the folks here declared there are "no facts", that there is only language. I quoted him twice to show you where to look. If his view is wrong, in your view, it seems to me you should be trying to correct HIM, not shoot the messenger who pointed out what you must think of as the error. Your beef is with HIM, not me -- at least, not yet with me. State your view of it better, and we'll talk about your view of it rather than his. But until you do, you're pretty much stuck with his Berkeleyan statement of the antifoundationalist view, and my Johnsonian refutation of it. > ... There are indeed several species of fact -- and let us not forget Norman Mailer's identification of its close cousin, the factoid << Then you must carefully indicated which species of fact you are referring to in each use of the word "fact" or you'll be in danger of equivocating, either on purpose or by accident. > and as to antifoundationalism -- it should be seen as an argument > about how one meets the ethical obligation to restore the correct > grasp of the actual -- how to know what "correct" is -- which > entails knowing what "grasping" a fact means -- It does not mean > grasping the dead, or grasping their death -- It may mean grasping > that they have died -- an entirely different matter < The danger here is in talking nonsense about what "grasping" means in all these metaphorical or connotational senses without reference to what it means to grasp a spoon. If you watch a kitten or a child progressively solving the problems of locomotion and grasping, without language, you can see why antifoundationalism looks so absurd. It's an attempt to so completely abstract how we talk about things from the things we talk about that how we talk about things is what is said to be "real" or "the facts" while pretending that the things themselves are irrelevant. But they're not irrelevant, they're hippopotomasus! The Hippopotamus Song Flanders & Swann A bold Hippopotamus was standing one day On the banks of the cool Swhalimar He gazed at the bottom as it peacefully lay By the light of the evening star Away on a hilltop, sat combing her hair Was a fair Hippopotami maid The Hippopotamus was no ignoramus And snag her this sweet serenade: 'Mud, Mud, glorious mud Nothing quite like it for cooling the blood So follow me, follow Down to the hollow And there let us wallow in glorious mud' The fair Hippopotama he aimed to entice From her seat on that hilltop above As she hadn't got a Ma to give her advice Came tiptoeing down to her love. Like thunder the forestry echoed the sound Of the song that they sang when they met His inamorata adjusted her garter And lifted her voice in duet. 'Mud, Mud, glorious mud Nothing quite like it for cooling the blood So follow me, follow Down to the hollow And there let us wallow in glorious mud' The bold Hippopotami began to convene On the banks of that river so wide I wonder, now, what am I to say of the scene That ensued by the Shalimar side? They dived all at once, with an ear-splitting splosh Then rose to the surface again A regular army of Hippopotami All singing this haunting refrain: 'Mud, Mud, glorious mud Nothing quite like it for cooling the blood So follow me, follow Down to the hollow And there let us wallow in glorious mud' ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 08:49:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Re: philosophy question Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 "God thinks" someone says. God is thinking? And here is where we meet the problem of language: God is thinking =3D God thinks (Action / is =3D verb of being / noun =3D ve= rb) God is thinking =3D God equals thinking (Equation / is =3D equates / noun = =3D noun) It's really a problem of language more than anything else. And faith. --=20 ___________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.graffiti.net/ Powered By Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:57:28 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nicky Melville Subject: Re: un hommage au lettrisme In-Reply-To: <86zmfgl381.fsf@argos.fun-fun.prv> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed hi dan, i sent you an extra chapbook when i was in the states, forgot i'd sent you one already...! Feel free to dispose of it as you see fit, all the best, nicky >From: Dan Waber >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: un hommage au lettrisme >Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 08:45:34 -0400 > >You are cordially invited to the public launch of an up-close and >in-depth look at the 26 letters of the roman alphabet. > >letters by Dan Waber, interface by Bryan Glickman > >http://www.logolalia.com/lettrism3d/ > >Enjoy, >Dan ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:59:43 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nicky Melville Subject: Re: un hommage au lettrisme In-Reply-To: <86zmfgl381.fsf@argos.fun-fun.prv> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed please ignore my last e-mail, I've been dreading that happening. sorry all, and sorry dan. nick-e melville >From: Dan Waber >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: un hommage au lettrisme >Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 08:45:34 -0400 > >You are cordially invited to the public launch of an up-close and >in-depth look at the 26 letters of the roman alphabet. > >letters by Dan Waber, interface by Bryan Glickman > >http://www.logolalia.com/lettrism3d/ > >Enjoy, >Dan ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 10:25:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Kelleher Subject: JUST BUFFALO E-NEWSLETTER 7-17-06 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable NEW: JOIN JUST BUFFALO ONLINE=21=21=21 If you would like to join Just Buffalo, or simply make a massive personal d= onation, you can do so online using your credit card. We have recently added the abilit= y to join online by paying with a credit card through PayPal. Simply click on the me= mbership level at which you would like to join, log in (or create a PayPal account u= sing your Visa/Amex/Mastercard/Disocver), and voil=C3=A1, you will find yourself in l= iterary heaven. For more info, or to join now, go to our website: http://www.justbuffalo.org/membership/index.shtml OPEN READINGS THIS WEEK Lockport Brewhaus (NEW VENUE=21=21=21) 112 Chestnut St., Lockport (meets monthly on the third Thursday) Featured: Ross Runfola Thursday, July 20, 7 P.M. 10 slots for open readers OPEN READINGS THIS WEEK SPOKEN ARTS RADIO, with host Sarah Campbell A joint production of Just Buffalo Literary Center and WBFO 88.7 FM Airs Sundays during Weekend Edition at 8:35 a.m. and Mondays during Morning Edition at 6:35 A.M. & 8:35 a.m. Upcoming Features: July 30 & 31, OLGA KARMAN All shows are now available for download on our website, including features= on John Ashbery, Paul Auster, Lyn Hejinian, Ray Bradbury and more... http://www.justbuffalo.org/events/sar.shtml JUST BUFFALO WRITER'S CRITIQUE GROUP Members of Just Buffalo are welcome to attend a free, bi-monthly writer cri= tique group in CEPA's Flux Gallery. Group meets 1st and 3rd Wednesday at 7 p.m. Call fo= r details. Note: the critique group is on hiatus until September. Please call in Augu= st if you'd like to join up in the fall. LITERARY BUFFALO TRINITY CHURCH MATTHEW FOX, Founder of the University of Creation Spirituality and author = of Original Blessing and Creativity; Tuesday, July 18, 7:00 PM, lecture; 6:00 = PM, meet the author reception; Trinity Church, 371 Delaware Ave. =245 Lecture; =2425 win= e and cheese reception. Center for Constitutional Rights, Melville House Books, Talking Leaves Book= s & Hallwalls present: ARTICLES OF IMPEACHMENT AGAINST GEORGE W. BUSH: A National Teach-In Admission free Hallwalls Theater at The Church Wednesday, July 19, 8 p.m. CALL FOR GLBT WRITERS Craig Keller of LDVOICES is trying to organize a pilot GLBT poetry reading= or slam in a local GLBT bar which might POSSIBLY develop into a regular event, since= there is a dearth of local GLBT voices when these events are held in straight bars &= other straight venues. He needs the commitment from GLBT poets & short story wr= iters who want to be on the slate for the first one. Inquires, suggestions & e-m= ail address where he can contact you with date(s) time & location of said event which = will happen if he can show critical mass of interest to bar owners/managers for an even= t like this. Please contact ldvoices=40yahoo.com. Title your message =E2=80=9CRE: G= LBT reading=E2=80=9D. UNSUBSCRIBE If you would like to unsubscribe from this list, just say so and you will b= e immediately removed. _______________________________ Michael Kelleher Artistic Director Just Buffalo Literary Center Market Arcade 617 Main St., Ste. 202A Buffalo, NY 14203 716.832.5400 716.270.0184 (fax) www.justbuffalo.org mjk=40justbuffalo.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 10:33:24 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: susan maurer Subject: femi nists in low cut blouses Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed notice how people mention readings w/o saying what state theyre in well the reading mentioined above is in nyc on 7- 30 at 4oclock at the bowery poerty club and i get now 7 minutes of this reading. i will probably wear my new chinati t-shirt which is not even remotely low-cut. susan maurer _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 08:15:22 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bruce Covey Subject: New Poems! New Coconut! In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hot off the palms, a brand new Coconut! Coconut Five features exciting new poetry by Lyn Hejinian, Mong-Lan, Ashley VanDoorn, Ada Limon, Scott Glassman, John Cotter, Joshua Marie Wilkinson, Katie Degentesh, Gina Myers & Dustin Williamson, Johannes Goransson, Noah Eli Gordon, Kristen Hanlon, Matt Hart, Kirsten Kaschock, Jennifer Moxley, Sarah Mangold, Carly Sachs, Joshua Edwards, Michael Rerick, Jen Tynes, Albert Flynn DeSilver, Maureen Seaton & Neil de la Flor, Hal Sirowitz, and Robyn Art. Check it out: http://www.coconutpoetry.org. Bruce Covey Coconut Editor ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 11:57:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: philosophy question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain well yes -- since it presupposes a god -- faith is a problem of language On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 08:49:31 +0000, furniture_ press wrote: >And faith. > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 09:04:15 -0700 Reply-To: rsillima@yahoo.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Silliman's Blog Comments: To: Brit Po , New Po , Wom Po , Lucifer Poetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit A note on the poetry of the Bay Area, looking backwards to 1955 and looking forwards to the future ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 14:14:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: I'm reading, come and see me, hear me Comments: To: kevin hall , "M. Ball" , magnus , marisa schwartz , peter baker , Sarah Casamassima , scooter415@hotmail.com, sedici group , sergio pg barrale , aaron debruski , amy king , carol quinn , david bergman , Julie Reiser Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 52 FRIDAYS CELEBRATES=20 ALTSKAPE=20 Friday July 21st 9pm Load Of Fun Gallery - 120 W. North Avenue (at Howard) Poets Christophe Casamassima, Barbara DeCesare, David Franks=20 AFTERPARTY $5 Raga Celtic Delta Blues Explosion TT Tucker and the Bum Rush Band julie=A9poetryinbaltimore.com 443.418.4762=20 Christophe Casamassima Professor Emiritus, Modern Languages & Philology University of Jamaica Avenue, Queens, N.Y. --=20 ___________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.graffiti.net/ Powered By Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 20:09:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Paul Nelson Subject: Duncan Ground Work MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone know the English translation of an apparently Greek phrase Robert Duncan uses in the Ground Work poem: Empedoklean Reveries? It is in line 4 of the poem and looks something like: nanal' eploes. Your assistance is greatly appreciated. Paul Nelson -- Paul E. Nelson www.GlobalVoicesRadio.org www.SPLAB.org 110 2nd Street S.W. #100 Slaughter, WA 98001 253.735.6328 toll-free 888.735.6328 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 23:40:05 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: PHILADELPHIA poetry & arts festival to BENEFIT Project H.O.M.E. -------------- MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit PHILADELPHIA poetry & arts festival to BENEFIT Project H.O.M.E. --------------- CURATED BY MIKE LAND Yes, indeed, something for everyone! The show is a free BYO; but a $5 donation going to Project H.O.M.E. is more than welcome! For more details, check out.... _http://myspace.com/highwireonthe29th_ (http://myspace.com/highwireonthe29th) SATURDAY, JULY 29 - 2006 From 7:00 - 10:00 p.m. Where: Highwire Art Gallery 1315 Cherry St. 4th Fl. Btw. Broad & 13th (THIS IS THE VERY LAST EVENT AT HIGHWIRE BEFORE IT'S TORN DOWN!) <------------------------------------------------> With Performances By: CAConrad William Esposito Adam Fieled Frank Sherlock Jessica Lee White And Music By: The Bitter Sweethearts (rock) Drake (fusion jazz) Bad News Bats (surf) Eddy Walsh (acoustic) And Photography & Installation By: Jeremy Tenenbaum Steven and Billy Blaise Dufala And Fiction Read By: Christian Tebordo Mike Land And a Film By: Ish Klein Thank you, and I'll see you on the 29th! Mike Land _MichaelLand84@yahoo.com_ (mailto:MichaelLand84@yahoo.com) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 23:43:09 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: Save the Lebanese Civilians Petition ///\\\\/////\\\\\\///////\\\\\\\\///////// MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Philadelphia poet Ashraf Osam is sending around a petition to help Lebanese civilians... go here to read more: _http://phillysound.blogspot.com/2006_07_01_phillysound_archive.html#115307689148929142_ (http://phillysound.blogspot.com/2006_07_01_phillysound_archive.html#115307689148929142) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 00:35:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Phil Primeau Subject: IMMACULATE WAR (E-Chap from PERSISTENCIA) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline The Immaculate War by Philip "PR" Primeau PERSISTENCIA (2005, 2006) 25 pg. (electronic) Roughly a year after its print release, THE IMMACULATE WAR is now available in e-chap format. Hallucinatory and erotic, it features free wheeling typography in a brief, accessible collection of poems. Download and read it for free here *. PERSISTENCIA*PRESS http://persistenciapress.tripod.com persistencia_press@yahoo.com *http://www.freewebs.com/persistenciapress/primeautiw.pdf ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 02:39:41 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: philosophy question In-Reply-To: <20060717134931.E96751486C@ws5-9.us4.outblaze.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > "God thinks" someone says. God is thinking? > > And here is where we meet the problem of language: > > God is thinking = God thinks (Action / is = verb of being / noun = verb) > God is thinking = God equals thinking (Equation / is = equates / > noun = noun) > > It's really a problem of language more than anything else. And faith. The argument that there's something God can't do does not require God to think. Because if God can't think, there's something God can't do. Similarly, if God can't 'do', then there's something God can't do. The only way I see out of the conclusion is to demolish logic and affirm, as Amy King did, that "God can do something God can't do". Which is to say God can do the logically impossible. -------------------------- God can think of something God can't do. If true, then there's something God can't do. If false, then there's something God can't do: God can't think of something God can't do. So there's something God can't do. -------------------------- ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 08:08:01 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: philosophy question In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is a problem with all this the moment you say "god is" you have turned God into an object or an analogy. God is not an object, God is. -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Jim Andrews Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 4:40 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: philosophy question > "God thinks" someone says. God is thinking? > > And here is where we meet the problem of language: > > God is thinking = God thinks (Action / is = verb of being / noun = > verb) God is thinking = God equals thinking (Equation / is = equates / > noun = noun) > > It's really a problem of language more than anything else. And faith. The argument that there's something God can't do does not require God to think. Because if God can't think, there's something God can't do. Similarly, if God can't 'do', then there's something God can't do. The only way I see out of the conclusion is to demolish logic and affirm, as Amy King did, that "God can do something God can't do". Which is to say God can do the logically impossible. -------------------------- God can think of something God can't do. If true, then there's something God can't do. If false, then there's something God can't do: God can't think of something God can't do. So there's something God can't do. -------------------------- ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 10:08:06 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: philo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/16/06 9:58:42 AM, hsnmng@COMCAST.NET writes: > Murat sd > > In some way you are arguing for God, or its equivalent. Don't > contraditions > > implicitly point to language or a mathematical system? "Facts" are > empirical. > > To say both statements may be true is to believe in metaphysics, in the > > Kantian sense. What is metaphysics about? Is it a sickness, as my > philosophy > > professor said when I was in college, or is it a linguistic confusion? Or > is > > it a human condition, rattling one's cage? > > seems to me the line between physics and metaphysics is continual > disappearing act, arguably the entire point of scientific investigation. as > Bertrand Russell says (i'm full of Russell quotes this week),"The world is > full of magical things patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper." > what seems like metaphysics today... > what seems like god today... > anyway, i get joy from the idea that over time we can disentangle a bit more > of our psychology (fear, superstition in particular) from our understanding > of How Things Work. > Hassen, I do not think we are saying the same thing. As an empiricist (or logical positivist), Russell believed that any statement which was not either empirical (both its truth and falsity possible, and a matter of "fact") or a priori ("necessarily," that is mathematically, axiomatically, not "factually," true) were nonsensical. This assertion by Russell, by the standards of his own defintion, is nonsensical, since the claim is not either empirical or necessary. Is the word "nonsensical" a new category of speech (or "truth") or merely deragatory? I think Russell and Logical Positivists meant it in a deragatory way. In practice, after Wittgenstein, they are treating the term as a new category, without quite acknowledging it. Assertions on language constitute a new category, neither a priori (that's why language is not a closed system, like mathematics) or factual (that's why, our discussions about God always gets trapped in questions about language). The difference between philosophical discussions about God and modern theories of physics, astronomy, etal,. is that science still carries the "aura" of the ability to predict (if still utterly true, I am not sure. I am not a scientist). Did the Hubbel telescope predict the things it saw or only "explained" them post observation. Does the string theory predict anything? Another point: the valuing of prediction (in practice, technological prowess, power) over moral coherence is an ideological choice. We see its ramifications all around the world. In this context, "predictability and technology" appear as "modern state," "democracy," "free enterprise," etc. God appears as "asymmetrical" warfare. Ciao, Murat ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 08:04:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Oregon Literary Review Summer/Fall 2006 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://www.oregonlitrev.org/v1n2/OregonLiteraryReview.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 10:50:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: eugene o'neill / t.s. eliot question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Postmodernists - T.S. Eliot and Eugene O'Neill were both born in 1888. Coincidentally, both of them died during the twentieth century. Does anyone know what Eliot thought of O'Neill? Does he mention him in any important essays or other writings? Aaron http://belz.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 11:57:24 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: philosophy question Comments: To: jim@VISPO.COM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/16/06 4:00:44 PM, jim@VISPO.COM writes: > Then Turing used Godel's (and Cantor's) methods to put the last nail in the > coffin of Hilbert's paradise: he showed that it is not possible to devise a > general algorithm to decide the truth of any well-formed proposition of > mathematics. The 'decision problem', the Entscheidungsproblem. Yet it was > also Turing who devised the theory of the language/logic machine and > suspected it was sufficient to create thought itself. Thought circumscribed > by the limitations of systems of countably infinite combinatoriums of > language. "Cantor's Paradise" is still present there: all this work assumes > the countably, actually infinite, not merely the 'potentially infinite'. The > useful dividing line in language is not between the 'potentially' and the > 'actually' infinite but between the countably and the uncountably infinite. > Jim, Thank you for your beautiful, even lyrical, post. Could you elaborate for me what is the distinction between countably and uncountably infinite? Not being a mathematcian, I am not clear what that means. > > "The Paradise that Cantor has created" is rich enough to allow us to begin > to do the sort of 'meta-mathematics' that allows us to understand some of > the limitations of mathematics and logic. And to understand limitations not > always as simply deficits to be rectified but as lines drawn that provide > shape and form. The limits of a body give it visible shape. > Absolutely. Limit as definer, a positive, rather than a negative. Of course, to me at least, the question remains: what does that shape exclude? Exclusion itself a field of force. > > So that it becomes possible to acknowledge limitations, even in notions of > God's power, do not so much diminish as give shape to what is rationally > possible in conceptions of the universe where there is yet room for the > infinite. > Do you mean infinite is what is "rationally not possible"? > > It has been quite encouraging to see the explosion of posts to Poetics on a > philosophy question, in a way. I think we all wonder, sometimes, whither > poetry. Perhaps we can tell our grandchildren that we lived in a time when > it may have looked like poetry disappeared, but actually what happened was > it underwent a deep transformation that saw it enter into very many > undertakings it had not been so present in before. So that, yes, in a sense > it partially disappeared, but it was sort of like its atoms were dispersed > into many other endevours, and informed these endevours with intense concern > about language, because notions of language were changing to be more > inclusive of types of language beyond the written word. And this spread of > concern about language into many other arts and other endevours was given > special impetus by the development of the computer because it is a language > and logic machine and represents whatever media or information it touches in > a whole range of types of languages--but yes, with language. So the poets > sometimes found themselves wondering if they were poets anymore or something > else. And some of the visual artists or musicians or even programmers, > mathematicians, logicians and philosophers wondered whether they were these > things anymore or had become poets. > Yes, human beings transformed from being defined as animals using "word language" to animals using a "hybrid machine language." Is that what you are implying, though I am aware of the lure of your vision. Affectionately, Murat > > ja > http://vispo.com > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 10:59:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work In-Reply-To: <44BC50F7.20908@speakeasy.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Paul, <> looks like a past-tense form of pleo, "to sail" -- trans: "you sailed..." I can't tell what <> might be -- any way for you to send a screen shot/digital image of the line? or can you try typing it in Symbol? tl -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul Nelson Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 22:10 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Duncan Ground Work Does anyone know the English translation of an apparently Greek phrase=20 Robert Duncan uses in the Ground Work poem: Empedoklean Reveries? It is in line 4 of the poem and looks something like: nanal' eploes. Your assistance is greatly appreciated. Paul Nelson --=20 Paul E. Nelson www.GlobalVoicesRadio.org www.SPLAB.org 110 2nd Street S.W. #100 Slaughter, WA 98001 253.735.6328 toll-free 888.735.6328 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 09:00:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: philosophy question In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit What if either God doesn't exist or all He really controls is the weather? Jim Andrews wrote: Anything wrong with this argument? Proposition A: God can think of something God can't do. If true, then there is something God can't do. If false, then there is something God can't do: God cannot think of something God can't do. Therefore (proposition B), there is something God can't do. ja http://vispo.com --------------------------------- Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 10:06:34 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: INK Subject: Announcement: Call to poets for a new project (Poor Man's TV) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline It is foolhardy to think that this or any other movement can replace or destroy the TV and the power that device wields. But what this project can do is subvert it. We have been given the tools. The very words that are used to control people, to dictate their thoughts control their actions. W= e will rewrite their history in our own way. We will take their words and re-envision them. Take their rhetoric and make it our rhetoric. We will splice, deconstruct, montage, and mutate their messages to our own. Let us take their statements of politics, entertainment, fashion, etc=85and turn t= hem to our concepts. We have hundreds of channels of text waiting to be found, to be rewritten. Use their politics to offer up our own. Take their concept of art and make it ours. Make their sitcoms our comedies. This project is open to all who wish to mold this language of television into a language of thought. Your politics, aesthetics, and other beliefs are free to be expressed. This is about community and bringing the community of poet= s together, no matter what school you are from. We are looking for a movement to change the way poetry and TV is viewed. All are welcomed to the challenge of gaining control over the media that surrounds us. * * *If you are interested please respond via email. * * * * * *Poor Man's TV Project* The Mechanics: Plop yourself down in front of our favorite babysitter. Next randomly pick 15 channels. From each channel write down the first phrase/sentence you hear. Repeat till you have done that with 15 channels. Arrangement: You can craft the poem in any style you wish. The only restriction is all the words must come from the 15 lines of dialog from the above step. Refinement: Depending on how many are involved in the final project will determine this step. Thanks to the internet we can divide everyone into groups. Each group will be responsible for the workshoping of each other in that group. For those in a relatively close geographic region, you might want to set up some type of face to face workshop to help polish these poems. The tentative schedule will be twice a month for these workshops. The editors will also ask that after each workshop a copy of the poems will be sent to us so that we can see how everything is progressing. Part of this project is not only the finished poems but the process of crafting them as well. The finished project: The goal is to have a decent anthology of these poems ready by the end of the year. After that we shall begin to shop this project around. Other Fun Socialization: So that we will all have a stable and centralized site for all things Poor Man's TV as well as other poetic things of note; the editors will be settin= g up an online site (Myspace, Yahoo, or something similar) so that all of those involved can keep in contact throughout and beyond this project. Also any other suggestions to make this run smoothly let us know. Until these other ideas or up and running we will be using mass emails to get any important information out to the participants. The editors contact information is below. Contact information: Email: chris.inkspot@gmail.com or gdtrippy7@yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 09:33:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Paul Nelson Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work In-Reply-To: <54AA9B41BC35F34EAD02E660901D8A5A07ACB2C8@TLRUSMNEAGMBX10.ERF.THOMSON.COM> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Tom W. Lewis wrote: > Paul, > > <> looks like a past-tense form of pleo, "to sail" -- trans: > "you sailed..." I can't tell what <> might be -- any way for you > to send a screen shot/digital image of the line? or can you try typing > it in Symbol? I tried to get the right symbols, but do not have them in my pc. Lisa Jarnot says this comes from Hesiod's Theogony, so anyone familiar with that would be helpful at this time. Thanks for your response Tom. This is the Duncan poem to which I refer, with line-breaks probably fouled up by the plain text format of the listserve: *Empedoklean Reveries [Passages] *Dread love that remorseless Aphrodite raises to drive home her offended Pow'r, I've been your battlefield where lovely Hate alone men call nanal' eploes defended me contending there ever with would-be over-powering Adhesion severing the bond dispelling the Word Eros demands, keeping the Heart of Things at loose ends. I have tamed the Lion Roar. It will no longer use me. Orlando, felix, my little household relative of the Lion, I will remember to pet you; Death takes his time with us. Lighting a cigarette. Coming to ourselves. From long ago ceremonies of burning and smoking. I have burned the Lion in his own fire. The Lioness rages in the hunting field far from where we are. Because of what we love we are increasingly at War. That Sphere of all Attractions draws us from what we are -- In this place I make my stand and a line appears or I have drawn a line where resolute on in my fear compounded I face the rapt Sphere of a dissolving Pain. ˚˚ There is no kindness here, no one I would draw into this. Love that would dissolve all boundaries. so that Blake is outraged by the first dissolve of outline and rages out at Titian, Rubens, Rembrandt, for their in-mixing of light and dark, the color in turmoil, resolving him in an undying Hatred that would annihilate all kindness, not his kind, not like him I am to be --Being Isolate even wiving must offend. Don't wife me, you arouse that animus the wrathful knight who upholds the honor of the Lady Anima, her token, that handkerchief to be stolen by her handmaiden. Her confidence bridles at the touch in touch music the wedding ground of Harmony and Discordia melody ever upon the point of leaving returning a turmoil of sound the center and surrounding begins: Love ever contending with Hate. Hate ever contending with Love. "/never, I think, shall infinite Time be emptied of these two" // "Never", /being the name of what is infinite. In bright confusion. White, the interpresence of all colors, shining back on us-- Black, taking all back into itself. They never cease their continuous exchange. The eye imitates /Seeing/ particular from particular, cell from cell, searches for what it's thought to "see"-- this week the track of a monopole previous to a field of gravity-- The Sun as if It were an infinite fire, infinitely hot beyond our "heat", the Earth turning from summer into cold and dark, ice widening over the sea's reaches. But in wrath they are all different. They dance in differing. There is a field of random energies from which we come, or in such myriad disorganization "field" rises as a dream, the real this projection of many dreamers, /daimones/, the Greeks named them, still to be realized Here this demon comes into Being as a mote temporarily needs higher organizations to reveal himself, Man so organized the woman seems taken out of him returning to his side he thinks admires --Darwin comments: /"the deity effect of organization"/ The two contending Spheres (Il combattimento di Tancredi e Clorinda) dazzling, darkening, come into come in order to each other sing [Nothing in the libratto is for the moment not embarrassing --enemies in love?] "/O tu che porte, correndo si?" /Risponde:/ / ˚˚ He-- /"E guerra e morte."/ Life is an organization of time to allow the suspension of an oder out of Order, longing than ever to come into order, yet prolonging the exchange. "It is by avoiding the rapid decay into the inert stage of equilibrium that an organism appears so enigmatic," Schrö dinger writes, "--so much so, that from the earliest times of human thought some special or supernatural force was claimed to be operative in the organism, and in some quarters, is still claimed." /"Guerra e morte avrai"/ /disse/ --she answers. * Thruout, the Contest, the Music Ground where they contend— /Colei di gioia / --forth in enmity-- /transmutossi e rise // /--enter Song's opera a smile. As if in the distance, arriving or departing, the dying or arising of a roar --the Arrival or Departure-- animal laughter advancing ˚˚˚ thematic to all that's gone "before". Paul > tl > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] > On Behalf Of Paul Nelson > Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 22:10 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Duncan Ground Work > > Does anyone know the English translation of an apparently Greek phrase > Robert Duncan uses in the Ground Work poem: Empedoklean Reveries? > It is in line 4 of the poem and looks something like: nanal' eploes. > > Your assistance is greatly appreciated. > > Paul Nelson > > -- Paul E. Nelson www.GlobalVoicesRadio.org www.SPLAB.org 110 2nd Street S.W. #100 Slaughter, WA 98001 253.735.6328 toll-free 888.735.6328 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 09:39:06 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: philo In-Reply-To: <595.3372e380.31ee4546@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > I do not think we are saying the same thing. As an empiricist (or logical > positivist), Russell believed that any statement which was not either empirical > (both its truth and falsity possible, and a matter of "fact") or a priori > ("necessarily," that is mathematically, axiomatically, not "factually," true) were > nonsensical. This assertion by Russell, by the standards of his own defintion, > is nonsensical, since the claim is not either empirical or necessary. > neither Russell nor Wittgenstein were positivists, logical or otherwise. positivism is the believe that metaphysical propositions are all false because they reference entities that do not exist, or put another way, that metaphysical claims use linguistic slight of hand to talk into existence things like god and the will that don't really exist. Russell had no objection to metaphysics, as can be seen in his theory of types and pretty much everything he ever said about mathematics or the theory of knowledge. At the same time he was not strictly an empiricist although he agreed with the prominence afforded to empirical science. Russell held that knowledge came through acquaintance with self-evident truths, such as the principles of deduction or the correspondence theory of truth. There's a big place for sense data in Russell's formulation, he criticizes the supremacy given to sense data in traditional empiricist views of knowleges. > Is the word "nonsensical" a new category of speech (or "truth") or merely > deragatory? I think Russell and Logical Positivists meant it in a deragatory way. > In practice, after Wittgenstein, they are treating the term as a new > category, without quite acknowledging it. Assertions on language constitute a new > category, neither a priori (that's why language is not a closed system, like > mathematics) or factual (that's why, our discussions about God always gets trapped > in questions about language). I don't follow your assertions about Russell here. The idea of nonsense doesn't become really important for Wittgenstein until the Brown Book, and the bigger deal for the logical positivists was that some statements weren't verifiable and were therefore nonsense. That is, if a proposition cannot be verified by means of scientific investigation, then it is nonsensical. Russell believed no such thing, and such a view is riddled with problems, not the least of which the fact that verification is subject to the problem of induction, which Russell was aware of. It's this trouble with logical positivism, as well as the fact that it rejected everything from the realm of knowledge that wasn't empirical science including ethics and political theory, that led to the widespread rejection of logical positivism in place of various Russell/Moore/Wittgenstein derived theories at mid-century. Rusell's views about God are of course complicated and difficult to form a coherent picture of. One must remember that for about fifty years of his life Russell wrote primarily for a popular audience and grossly simplified a number of his more complex and esoteric views in order that they be understood by a philosophically unsophisticated reader. That's why you get the relatively weird ideas about God in essay's like "Why I am Not A Christian" which doesn't really seem to jibe with the careful and methodical thinker that Russell was in his philosophy. Wittgenstein is an even stranger case. Far from asserting that Metaphysical statements were empty because they referred to non-existent objects, Uncle ludwig's idea of sense and nonsense and the nature of meaningfulness is complex and defies easy aphorisization, despite the fact the he repeatedly try to express himself in such a way. At root, Wittgenstein held that what he called "the mystical" was the most important aspect of human life and that the great irony of our existence is that there is no way to talk about such things as absolute good, god, or the will in a way that has any sense. That is, the meanings of the sentences you make about those things collapse because they have no public grounds. Far from the empirical rejection that the positivists saw, wittgenstein correctly perceived this as a grammatical trouble with the way language works, and suggested as therapy that we simply stop trying to talk about such things when they frustrate or upset us, but also pointed out at times that running up against the limits of language is a noble thing and that he admired and said that he would never try to dissuade someone from doing so. I think he just figured it would be better to do so realizing the futility of it than to do it thinking one was actually saying something meaningful and profound. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 11:21:26 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Diane DiPrima Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work In-Reply-To: <44BD0D54.5020406@speakeasy.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Actually, looks like it's spelled Chi alpha chi alpha iota [first word] (that mark for aspirated sound) then epsilon rho iota delta epsilon sigma [second word] With accented iota in first word (going opposite direction for "acute" accent in French) & Accent (acute in this case) right after the aspirant mark over the epsilon that begins the second word. . . If that's any help. Don't know how to access my greek keyboard. Diane di Prima > From: Paul Nelson > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 09:33:24 -0700 > To: > Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work >=20 > Tom W. Lewis wrote: >> Paul, >>=20 >> <> looks like a past-tense form of pleo, "to sail" -- trans: >> "you sailed..." I can't tell what <> might be -- any way for you >> to send a screen shot/digital image of the line? or can you try typing >> it in Symbol? > I tried to get the right symbols, but do not have them in my pc. Lisa > Jarnot says this comes from Hesiod's Theogony, so anyone familiar with > that would be helpful at this time. >=20 > Thanks for your response Tom. >=20 > This is the Duncan poem to which I refer, with line-breaks probably > fouled up by the plain text format of the listserve: >=20 > *Empedoklean Reveries [Passages] >=20 > *Dread love that > remorseless Aphrodite raises to drive home her offended Pow'r, > I've been your battlefield > where lovely Hate alone men call nanal' eploes > defended me >=20 > contending there ever with would-be over-powering Adhesion > severing the bond dispelling the Word > Eros demands, keeping the Heart of Things > at loose ends. >=20 > I have tamed the Lion Roar. > It will no longer use me. >=20 > Orlando, felix, my little household relative of the Lion, > I will remember to pet you; > Death takes his time with us. >=20 > Lighting a cigarette. Coming to ourselves. > From long ago ceremonies of burning and smoking. >=20 > I have burned the Lion in his own fire. >=20 > The Lioness rages in the hunting field > far from where we are. >=20 > Because of what we love we are increasingly at War. > That Sphere of all Attractions draws us from what we are -- >=20 > In this place > I make my stand > and a line appears > or I have drawn a line > where resolute > on in my fear compounded > I face > the rapt Sphere > of a dissolving Pain. >=20 > =9A=9A >=20 > There is no kindness here, no one I would draw into this. >=20 > Love that would dissolve all boundaries. > so that Blake is outraged by the first dissolve of outline > and rages out at Titian, Rubens, Rembrandt, > for their in-mixing of light and dark, the color in turmoil, > resolving him in an undying Hatred >=20 > that would annihilate all kindness, not > his kind, > not like him I am to be > --Being Isolate > even wiving must offend. >=20 > Don't wife me, you arouse >=20 > that animus the wrathful knight who upholds > the honor of the Lady Anima, her token, that handkerchief > to be stolen by her handmaiden. Her confidence >=20 > bridles at the touch in touch music >=20 > the wedding ground of Harmony and Discordia >=20 > melody ever upon the point of leaving returning > a turmoil of sound the center and surrounding >=20 > begins: >=20 > Love ever contending with Hate. >=20 > Hate ever contending with Love. >=20 > "/never, I think, shall infinite Time be emptied of these two" > // > "Never", /being the name of what is infinite. >=20 > In bright confusion. White, the interpresence of all colors, > shining back on us-- > Black, taking all back into itself. > They never cease their continuous exchange. >=20 > The eye imitates /Seeing/ particular from particular, > cell from cell, searches > for what it's thought to "see"-- > this week the track of a monopole previous to a field of gravity-- >=20 > The Sun as if It were an infinite fire, infinitely hot beyond our "heat", > the Earth turning from summer into cold and dark, > ice widening over the sea's reaches. >=20 > But in wrath they are all different. They dance in differing. > There is a field of random energies from which we come, > or in such myriad disorganization "field" rises as a dream, > the real this projection of many dreamers, > /daimones/, the Greeks named them, still to be realized Here >=20 > this demon comes into Being as a mote >=20 > temporarily needs >=20 > higher organizations to reveal himself, >=20 > Man so organized the woman seems taken out of him > returning to his side he thinks admires >=20 > --Darwin comments: /"the deity effect of organization"/ >=20 > The two > contending Spheres > (Il combattimento di Tancredi e Clorinda) > dazzling, darkening, >=20 > come into > come in order to >=20 >=20 > each other >=20 > sing >=20 > [Nothing in the libratto is for the moment > not embarrassing --enemies in love?] >=20 > "/O tu che porte, correndo si?" > /Risponde:/ > / >=20 > =9A=9A >=20 > He-- /"E guerra e morte."/ >=20 > Life is an organization of time to allow > the suspension of an oder out of Order, > longing than ever to come into order, > yet prolonging the exchange. >=20 > "It is by avoiding the rapid decay into the > inert stage of equilibrium that an > organism appears so enigmatic," Schr=F6 dinger writes, >=20 > "--so much so, that from the earliest times of human thought > some special or supernatural force was claimed to be operative > in the organism, and in some quarters, > is still claimed." >=20 > /"Guerra e morte avrai"/ > /disse/ > --she answers. >=20 > * >=20 > Thruout, the Contest, the Music Ground > where they contend=8B >=20 >=20 > /Colei di gioia / --forth in enmity-- >=20 > /transmutossi e rise > // > /--enter Song's opera >=20 > a smile. >=20 > As if in the distance, arriving or departing, >=20 > the dying or arising of a roar >=20 > --the Arrival or Departure-- >=20 > animal laughter >=20 > advancing >=20 > =9A=9A=9A >=20 > thematic >=20 > to all that's gone >=20 > "before". >=20 >=20 >=20 > Paul >> tl >>=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] >> On Behalf Of Paul Nelson >> Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 22:10 >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: Duncan Ground Work >>=20 >> Does anyone know the English translation of an apparently Greek phrase >> Robert Duncan uses in the Ground Work poem: Empedoklean Reveries? >> It is in line 4 of the poem and looks something like: nanal' eploes. >>=20 >> Your assistance is greatly appreciated. >>=20 >> Paul Nelson >>=20 >> =20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > Paul E. Nelson > www.GlobalVoicesRadio.org > www.SPLAB.org > 110 2nd Street S.W. #100 > Slaughter, WA 98001 > 253.735.6328 > toll-free 888.735.6328 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 14:30:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Fwd: FW: Malachi Thompson 1949-2006 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-Bfp5bpam6KyJgV95m3Oi" --=-Bfp5bpam6KyJgV95m3Oi Content-Type: text/plain I just received this very sad news about Malachi Thmpson -- a wonderful composer and trumpet player who was a great friend to poets -- recorded with many of them over the years -- I will imagine him somewhere playing his great "Ali Shuffle" -- From: Amirib@aol.com [mailto:Amirib@aol.com] Sent: Tue 7/18/2006 12:01 PM Subject: Fwd: Malachi Thompson 1949-2006 From: Kevin Johnson Malachi Thompson 1949-2006 Delmark Records has very sad news to report as our long time Delmark family friend and musician, Malachi Thompson, passed away yesterday morning at home, July 16th, 2006. Malachi (1949-2006) was a beautiful soul and an extremely kind man and will be dearly missed by so many people whose lives he has positively touched. Malachi was a brilliant trumpet player and composer, writer and jazz historian, and a highly influential advocate for jazz and arts education. As part of the 2nd generation of AACM, Malachi Thompson is best known for his innovative approach in combining free jazz with the discipline of bop and the emotion of the blues. Malachi sadly passed away from leukemia, which had been in remission for almost 20 years. Just like his main musical heroes, Coltrane and Lester Bowie, Malachi was more than a musician, but a musician with vision and purpose. Malachi's Africa Brass with Billy Harper will be performing in a tribute to Malachi Thompson at the world famous Chicago Jazz Festival on Friday, Sept 1 from 6-7pm at the Petrillo Main Stage. This will be a special tribute and very moving performance. I know Malachi was looking forward greatly to this anticipated event. --=-Bfp5bpam6KyJgV95m3Oi-- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 14:07:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen C Cope Subject: Duncan citations (help) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; DelSp=Yes; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline I'm trying to track dsown sources for the following quotes. Please backchannel if you can help. Thanks in advance! Stephen Cope stephen.cope@drake.edu 1. I mean, of course, that happiness itself is a forest in which we are bewildered, turn wild, or dwell like Robin Hood, outlawed and at home ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 14:19:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 dGhhbmtzLCBEaWFuZSAtLSB0aGF0IG1ha2VzIGEgbG90IG1vcmUgc2Vuc2UuIA0KDQogDQoNCkkg ZG9u4oCZdCBrbm93IGlmIHRoaXMgd2lsbCBjb21lIHRocm91Z2ggaW4gcGxhaW4gdGV4dCwgYnV0 IGhlcmXigJlzIHRoZSBwaHJhc2Ugc3BlbGxlZCBvdXQgaW4gR3JlZWs6IA0KDQoqDQoNCs66zrHO us6xzrkgzrXPgc65zrTOtc+CDQoNCiANCg0KdHJhbnNsaXRlcmF0ZWQ6DQoNCiANCg0Ka2FrYWkg ZXJpZGVzDQoNCiANCg0KdHJhbnNsYXRlZDoNCg0KIA0KDQrigJxldmlsIHRyb3VibGVz4oCdDQoN CuKAnHdpY2tlZCBzdHJpZmVz4oCdDQoNCuKAnGhhdGVmdWwgamVhbG91c2llc+KAnQ0KDQrigJx1 Z2x5IHF1YXJyZWxz4oCdDQoNCiANCg0KZXRjLg0KDQogDQoNCknigJlsbCBoYXZlIHRvIGxvb2sg YXQgbXkgTG9lYiBIZXNpb2QgdG8gZ2V0IHRoZSBjb250ZXh0Li4uDQoNCiANCg0KdGhlIHNlY29u ZCB3b3JkIHNob3VsZCBoYXZlIGFuIHVuYXNwaXJhdGVkIG1hcmsgb3ZlciB0aGUg4oCYZeKAmSAo ZXBzaWxvbikgLS0gaXTigJlzIHRoZSBwbHVyYWwgb2YgdGhlIHdvcmQgd2Uga25vdyBmcm9tIEdy ZWVrIG15dGhvbG9neSBhcyBFcmlzICjigJxTdHJpZmXigJ0pLCBzaGUgd2hvIHNsaW5ncyBhIHdp 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YXVsIE5lbHNvbg0KDQo+PiANCg0KPj4gICANCg0KPiANCg0KPiANCg0KPiAtLSANCg0KPiBQYXVs IEUuIE5lbHNvbg0KDQo+IHd3dy5HbG9iYWxWb2ljZXNSYWRpby5vcmcNCg0KPiB3d3cuU1BMQUIu b3JnDQoNCj4gMTEwIDJuZCBTdHJlZXQgUy5XLiAjMTAwDQoNCj4gU2xhdWdodGVyLCBXQSA5ODAw MQ0KDQo+IDI1My43MzUuNjMyOA0KDQo+IHRvbGwtZnJlZSA4ODguNzM1LjYzMjgNCg0K ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 14:14:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Coffey Subject: Re: Duncan citations (help) In-Reply-To: <20060718140735.w72df9aytc4g8880@webmail.drake.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Lyn Hejinian quotes Robert Duncan as saying that, here: http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis/88v/happily.html On 7/18/06, Stephen C Cope wrote: > I'm trying to track dsown sources for the following quotes. Please > backchannel if you can help. > > Thanks in advance! > > Stephen Cope > stephen.cope@drake.edu > > 1. I mean, of course, that happiness itself is a forest in which we > are bewildered, turn wild, or dwell like Robin Hood, outlawed and at > home > -- http://hyperhypo.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 12:34:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Paul Nelson Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work In-Reply-To: <54AA9B41BC35F34EAD02E660901D8A5A07ACB2CA@TLRUSMNEAGMBX10.ERF.THOMSON.COM> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Tom W. Lewis wrote: > thanks, Diane -- that makes a lot more sense. > > > > I don’t know if this will come through in plain text, but here’s the phrase spelled out in Greek: > > * > > κακαι εριδες > > > > transliterated: > > > > kakai erides > > > > translated: > > > > “evil troubles” > > “wicked strifes” > > “hateful jealousies” > > “ugly quarrels” > > > > etc. > > > > I’ll have to look at my Loeb Hesiod to get the context... > > > > the second word should have an unaspirated mark over the ‘e’ (epsilon) -- it’s the plural of the word we know from Greek mythology as Eris (“Strife”), she who slings a wicked apple/creates ugly quarrels in her own right... > > > > tl > Tom, This is excellent. Thanks much. Paul Nelson -- Paul E. Nelson www.GlobalVoicesRadio.org www.SPLAB.org 110 2nd Street S.W. #100 Slaughter, WA 98001 253.735.6328 toll-free 888.735.6328 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 12:43:17 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: philosophy question In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 18-Jul-06, at 2:39 AM, Jim Andrews wrote: > > > The only way I see out of the conclusion is to demolish logic and > affirm, as > Amy King did, that "God can do something God can't do". Which is to > say God > can do the logically impossible. That's a way of putting it. As I said long ago, all this philosophical language is only illustrative of human limitation. God is far superior to human beings. Their language may confine him but he lives in some state far beyond human language and logic. This whole thread has been a demonstration of human limitation. > George H. Bowering Fears a symmetrical oyster. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 12:51:32 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work In-Reply-To: <44BD0D54.5020406@speakeasy.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 18-Jul-06, at 9:33 AM, Paul Nelson wrote: > Tom W. Lewis wrote: >> Paul, >> >> <> looks like a past-tense form of pleo, "to sail" -- trans: >> "you sailed..." I can't tell what <> might be -- any way for >> you >> to send a screen shot/digital image of the line? or can you try typing >> it in Symbol? > I tried to get the right symbols, but do not have them in my pc. Lisa > Jarnot says this comes from Hesiod's Theogony, Could be. Robert was always going on about that text. gb ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 15:04:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: philosophy question In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Again, I encourage a reading--or rereading as the case may be--of Pascal's "The Wager"-- For an eight year period before his turn to rleigion, Pascal one of the leading mathematicians scientists and inventors of his time. A number of his probablity theorems still in use. "The Wager" in other words, as he argues, is "a good bet"-- >From: George Bowering >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: philosophy question >Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 12:43:17 -0700 > >On 18-Jul-06, at 2:39 AM, Jim Andrews wrote: > >> >> >>The only way I see out of the conclusion is to demolish logic and affirm, >>as >>Amy King did, that "God can do something God can't do". Which is to say >>God >>can do the logically impossible. > >That's a way of putting it. >As I said long ago, all this philosophical language is only illustrative of >human >limitation. God is far superior to human beings. Their language may confine >him >but he lives in some state far beyond human language and logic. This whole >thread has been a demonstration of human limitation. >> >George H. Bowering >Fears a symmetrical oyster. _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 13:43:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: philosophy question In-Reply-To: <404.74f8000.31ee5ee4@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Thank you for your beautiful, even lyrical, post. Could you > elaborate for me > what is the distinction between countably and uncountably > infinite? Not being > a mathematcian, I am not clear what that means. Thanks, Murat. It's quite a story, really, how Cantor's work is used by Godel and Turing. And it's a story with deep relevance concerning epistemology and language. But I'll just post here on the distinction between the countably and the uncountably infinite. First, we note that there are two ways to compare the size of two collections of things. We can count the number of things in each collection and compare the resulting two numbers, or we can do it without counting the number of things in each collection. How? See if the elements of the collections can be paired off with one another. For instance, if we compare the collection {a,b,c} with {d,e,f} we can pair the two sets off: a -> d b -> e c -> f So, without counting the number of things in either collection, we can nonetheless compare the size of the two collections. By definition, the set of 'natural numbers' A={1,2,3,...} is 'countably infinite'. Any set that can be put in one-to-one correspondence with (or, in other words, 'completely paired off with') this set is also 'countably infinite'. For instance, the set of even 'natural numbers' B={2,4,6,...} is 'countably infinite': A B 1 -> 2 2 -> 4 3 -> 6 . . . . . . via the function f(x)=2x. In the above little diagram, any element of A appears in the left column, and any element of B appears in the right column. Which is to say the two sets can be put in 'one-to-one correspondence' or, in other words, the elements of the two sets can be 'paired off' in such a way that each element of each set is part of a pair; 5 is paired with 10, for instance. So apparently the two sets are 'of the same size' or are, in technical lingo, 'equivalent'. This is slightly surprising, given that the set of even counting numbers is a proper subset of the set of counting numbers. But we are dealing with countably infinite sets. As it turns out, the set of positive rational numbers is also 'countably infinite'. Recall that a 'rational number' is one that can be expressed as a/b where a and b are counting numbers. There is a little proof of this fact at http://www.homeschoolmath.net/teaching/rational-numbers-countable.php This is somewhat surprising because the set of rational numbers is apparently much larger than the set of natural numbers. We can see this by noting that there are infinitely many rational numbers between 1 and 2. At this point, we might conjecture that *any* two infinite sets are countable. But this is not true. There are sets so large that they are not countable. That this is so is explained quite well at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantor's_diagonal_argument . Here we see Cantor's famous proof that the set of all possible sequences of zeros and ones is uncountable. Why does this turn out to be of significance concerning epistemology? Well, in a nutshell, it's possible to prove, for instance, that each of the propositions deducible from the axioms of set theory is expressible as a finitely long string of symbols, and that the collection of all deducible propositions is countable. But it is also possible to use Cantor's diagonal argument to show that there exist, nonetheless, true propositions that are not deducible from the axioms of set theory. And that, more generally, however rich the set of axioms is, there will always exist true propositions not deducible from the axioms. Which is to say the basis of our knowledge is always 'incomplete'. ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 16:53:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: philosophy question Comments: To: Jim Andrews In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 18 Jul 2006 at 13:43, Jim Andrews wrote: > ... And that, more generally, > however rich the set of axioms is, there will always exist true > propositions not deducible from the axioms. Which is to say the basis of our > knowledge is always 'incomplete'. But "incomplete" does not mean "there are no facts" or that "language is all there is". M ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 16:02:10 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Coffey Subject: Re: Duncan citations (help) In-Reply-To: <750c78460607181214q1098b12elb0348b8cf5ca6373@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sorry, didn't read the subject line. Back to my lurk-hole. Dan On 7/18/06, Dan Coffey wrote: > Lyn Hejinian quotes Robert Duncan as saying that, here: > http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis/88v/happily.html > > > > On 7/18/06, Stephen C Cope wrote: > > I'm trying to track dsown sources for the following quotes. Please > > backchannel if you can help. > > > > Thanks in advance! > > > > Stephen Cope > > stephen.cope@drake.edu > > > > 1. I mean, of course, that happiness itself is a forest in which we > > are bewildered, turn wild, or dwell like Robin Hood, outlawed and at > > home > > > > > -- > http://hyperhypo.org > -- http://hyperhypo.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 14:14:45 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: philosophy question In-Reply-To: <44BD120E.15868.C86D065@marcus.designerglass.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed indeed. moreover, it's not even true that all axiomatic systems are incomplete. Axiomatized Euclidean geometry is provably complete, as are various axiomatizations of first order sentential and predicate logics. As a matter of fact that there are true arithmetic propositions which we can't deduce from first principles in arithmetic has always struck me as being sort of trivial. Godel's results about the consistency of mathematical systems and by extension rigorous formal language are much more interesting. On Tue, 18 Jul 2006, Marcus Bales wrote: > On 18 Jul 2006 at 13:43, Jim Andrews wrote: >> ... And that, more generally, >> however rich the set of axioms is, there will always exist true >> propositions not deducible from the axioms. Which is to say the basis of our >> knowledge is always 'incomplete'. > > But "incomplete" does not mean "there are no facts" or that "language > is all there is". > > M > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 19:25:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: philosophy question Comments: To: Jason Quackenbush In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > >> On 18 Jul 2006 at 13:43, Jim Andrews wrote: > >> ... And that, more generally, > >> however rich the set of axioms is, there will always exist true > >> propositions not deducible from the axioms. Which is to say the > >> basis of our knowledge is always 'incomplete'. > > On Tue, 18 Jul 2006, Marcus Bales wrote: > > But "incomplete" does not mean "there are no facts" or that > > "language is all there is". > On 18 Jul 2006 at 14:14, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > indeed. ... As a matter of fact that there are true arithmetic > propositions which we can't deduce from first principles in > arithmetic has always struck me as being sort of trivial. Godel's > results about the consistency of mathematical systems and by > extension rigorous formal language are much more interesting. But since the issue at hand is whether there "are no facts" and whether "language is all there is", it's hard to see why the interesting notions about consistency in mathematical systems and by extension rigorous formal language are relevant. To speak of these notions as if the question of whether there "are no facts" or "languages is all there is" has been settled is to beg the question. M ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 16:49:38 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Diane DiPrima Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work In-Reply-To: <54AA9B41BC35F34EAD02E660901D8A5A07ACB2CA@TLRUSMNEAGMBX10.ERF.THOMSON.COM> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Yeah, Tom, I was wondering about that aspirate mark over erides (is that nominative plural, for eris?) Diane > From: "Tom W. Lewis" > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 14:19:07 -0500 > To: > Conversation: Duncan Ground Work > Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work >=20 > thanks, Diane -- that makes a lot more sense. >=20 > =20 >=20 > I don=E2=80=99t know if this will come through in plain text, but here=E2=80=99s the = phrase > spelled out in Greek: >=20 > * >=20 > =CE=BA=CE=B1=CE=BA=CE=B1=CE=B9 =CE=B5=CF=81=CE=B9=CE=B4=CE=B5=CF=82 >=20 > =20 >=20 > transliterated: >=20 > =20 >=20 > kakai erides >=20 > =20 >=20 > translated: >=20 > =20 >=20 > =E2=80=9Cevil troubles=E2=80=9D >=20 > =E2=80=9Cwicked strifes=E2=80=9D >=20 > =E2=80=9Chateful jealousies=E2=80=9D >=20 > =E2=80=9Cugly quarrels=E2=80=9D >=20 > =20 >=20 > etc. >=20 > =20 >=20 > I=E2=80=99ll have to look at my Loeb Hesiod to get the context... >=20 > =20 >=20 > the second word should have an unaspirated mark over the =E2=80=98e=E2=80=99 (epsilon= ) -- it=E2=80=99s > the plural of the word we know from Greek mythology as Eris (=E2=80=9CStrife=E2=80=9D= ), she > who slings a wicked apple/creates ugly quarrels in her own right... >=20 > =20 >=20 > tl >=20 > =20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] O= n > Behalf Of Diane DiPrima > Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 13:21 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work >=20 > =20 >=20 > Actually, looks like it's spelled >=20 > =20 >=20 > Chi alpha chi alpha iota [first word] >=20 > =20 >=20 > (that mark for aspirated sound) then epsilon rho iota delta epsilon sigma >=20 > [second word] >=20 > =20 >=20 > With accented iota in first word (going opposite direction for "acute" >=20 > accent in French) & >=20 > Accent (acute in this case) right after the aspirant mark over the epsilo= n >=20 > that begins the second word. . . >=20 > =20 >=20 > If that's any help. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Don't know how to access my greek keyboard. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Diane di Prima >=20 > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 >> From: Paul Nelson >=20 >> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >=20 >> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 09:33:24 -0700 >=20 >> To: >=20 >> Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> Tom W. Lewis wrote: >=20 >>> Paul, >=20 >>>=20 >=20 >>> <> looks like a past-tense form of pleo, "to sail" -- trans: >=20 >>> "you sailed..." I can't tell what <> might be -- any way for yo= u >=20 >>> to send a screen shot/digital image of the line? or can you try typing >=20 >>> it in Symbol? >=20 >> I tried to get the right symbols, but do not have them in my pc. Lisa >=20 >> Jarnot says this comes from Hesiod's Theogony, so anyone familiar with >=20 >> that would be helpful at this time. >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> Thanks for your response Tom. >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> This is the Duncan poem to which I refer, with line-breaks probably >=20 >> fouled up by the plain text format of the listserve: >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> *Empedoklean Reveries [Passages] >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> *Dread love that >=20 >> remorseless Aphrodite raises to drive home her offended Pow'r, >=20 >> I've been your battlefield >=20 >> where lovely Hate alone men call nanal' eploes >=20 >> defended me >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> contending there ever with would-be over-powering Adhesion >=20 >> severing the bond dispelling the Word >=20 >> Eros demands, keeping the Heart of Things >=20 >> at loose ends. >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> I have tamed the Lion Roar. >=20 >> It will no longer use me. >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> Orlando, felix, my little household relative of the Lion, >=20 >> I will remember to pet you; >=20 >> Death takes his time with us. >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> Lighting a cigarette. Coming to ourselves. >=20 >> From long ago ceremonies of burning and smoking. >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> I have burned the Lion in his own fire. >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> The Lioness rages in the hunting field >=20 >> far from where we are. >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> Because of what we love we are increasingly at War. >=20 >> That Sphere of all Attractions draws us from what we are -- >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> In this place >=20 >> I make my stand >=20 >> and a line appears >=20 >> or I have drawn a line >=20 >> where resolute >=20 >> on in my fear compounded >=20 >> I face >=20 >> the rapt Sphere >=20 >> of a dissolving Pain. >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> =C5=A1=C5=A1 >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> There is no kindness here, no one I would draw into this. >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> Love that would dissolve all boundaries. >=20 >> so that Blake is outraged by the first dissolve of outline >=20 >> and rages out at Titian, Rubens, Rembrandt, >=20 >> for their in-mixing of light and dark, the color in turmoil, >=20 >> resolving him in an undying Hatred >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> that would annihilate all kindness, not >=20 >> his kind, >=20 >> not like him I am to be >=20 >> --Being Isolate >=20 >> even wiving must offend. >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> Don't wife me, you arouse >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> that animus the wrathful knight who upholds >=20 >> the honor of the Lady Anima, her token, that handkerchief >=20 >> to be stolen by her handmaiden. Her confidence >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> bridles at the touch in touch music >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> the wedding ground of Harmony and Discordia >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> melody ever upon the point of leaving returning >=20 >> a turmoil of sound the center and surrounding >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> begins: >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> Love ever contending with Hate. >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> Hate ever contending with Love. >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> "/never, I think, shall infinite Time be emptied of these two" >=20 >> // >=20 >> "Never", /being the name of what is infinite. >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> In bright confusion. White, the interpresence of all colors, >=20 >> shining back on us-- >=20 >> Black, taking all back into itself. >=20 >> They never cease their continuous exchange. >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> The eye imitates /Seeing/ particular from particular, >=20 >> cell from cell, searches >=20 >> for what it's thought to "see"-- >=20 >> this week the track of a monopole previous to a field of gravity-- >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> The Sun as if It were an infinite fire, infinitely hot beyond our "heat"= , >=20 >> the Earth turning from summer into cold and dark, >=20 >> ice widening over the sea's reaches. >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> But in wrath they are all different. They dance in differing. >=20 >> There is a field of random energies from which we come, >=20 >> or in such myriad disorganization "field" rises as a dream, >=20 >> the real this projection of many dreamers, >=20 >> /daimones/, the Greeks named them, still to be realized Here >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> this demon comes into Being as a mote >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> temporarily needs >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> higher organizations to reveal himself, >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> Man so organized the woman seems taken out of him >=20 >> returning to his side he thinks admires >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> --Darwin comments: /"the deity effect of organization"/ >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> The two >=20 >> contending Spheres >=20 >> (Il combattimento di Tancredi e Clorinda) >=20 >> dazzling, darkening, >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> come into >=20 >> come in order to >=20 >>=20 >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> each other >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> sing >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> [Nothing in the libratto is for the moment >=20 >> not embarrassing --enemies in love?] >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> "/O tu che porte, correndo si?" >=20 >> /Risponde:/ >=20 >> / >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> =C5=A1=C5=A1 >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> He-- /"E guerra e morte."/ >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> Life is an organization of time to allow >=20 >> the suspension of an oder out of Order, >=20 >> longing than ever to come into order, >=20 >> yet prolonging the exchange. >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> "It is by avoiding the rapid decay into the >=20 >> inert stage of equilibrium that an >=20 >> organism appears so enigmatic," Schr=C3=B6 dinger writes, >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> "--so much so, that from the earliest times of human thought >=20 >> some special or supernatural force was claimed to be operative >=20 >> in the organism, and in some quarters, >=20 >> is still claimed." >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> /"Guerra e morte avrai"/ >=20 >> /disse/ >=20 >> --she answers. >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> * >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> Thruout, the Contest, the Music Ground >=20 >> where they contend=E2=80=B9 >=20 >>=20 >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> /Colei di gioia / --forth in enmity-- >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> /transmutossi e rise >=20 >> // >=20 >> /--enter Song's opera >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> a smile. >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> As if in the distance, arriving or departing, >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> the dying or arising of a roar >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> --the Arrival or Departure-- >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> animal laughter >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> advancing >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> =C5=A1=C5=A1=C5=A1 >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> thematic >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> to all that's gone >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> "before". >=20 >>=20 >=20 >>=20 >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> Paul >=20 >>> tl >=20 >>>=20 >=20 >>> -----Original Message----- >=20 >>> From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] >=20 >>> On Behalf Of Paul Nelson >=20 >>> Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 22:10 >=20 >>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >=20 >>> Subject: Duncan Ground Work >=20 >>>=20 >=20 >>> Does anyone know the English translation of an apparently Greek phrase >=20 >>> Robert Duncan uses in the Ground Work poem: Empedoklean Reveries? >=20 >>> It is in line 4 of the poem and looks something like: nanal' eploes. >=20 >>>=20 >=20 >>> Your assistance is greatly appreciated. >=20 >>>=20 >=20 >>> Paul Nelson >=20 >>>=20 >=20 >>> =20 >=20 >>=20 >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> --=20 >=20 >> Paul E. Nelson >=20 >> www.GlobalVoicesRadio.org >=20 >> www.SPLAB.org >=20 >> 110 2nd Street S.W. #100 >=20 >> Slaughter, WA 98001 >=20 >> 253.735.6328 >=20 >> toll-free 888.735.6328 >=20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 21:09:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: clifford Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 17 Jul 2006 to 18 Jul 2006 (#2006-200) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline well its a non starter in another sense, because if god's dead, it aint doing nuthing and nuthing cant be said about nuthin, cause it aint. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 00:14:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Boog City presents Narrow House Recordings and Old Songs Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable please forward ---------------- Boog City presents =20 d.a. levy lives: celebrating the renegade press =20 Narrow House Recordings (Baltimore, Maryland) Tues. July 25, 6:00 p.m., free ACA Galleries 529 W.20th St., 5th Flr. NYC =20 Event will be hosted by Narrow House Recordings founder and creative director Justin Sirois Featuring readings from Buck Downs Amy King Rodrigo Toscano Rupert Wondolowski With music from Old Songs There will be wine, cheese, and fruit, too. =20 Curated and with an introduction by Boog City editor David Kirschenbaum =8B=8B=8B=8B=8B- *About Narrow House Recordings* Narrow House Recordings is a record label primarily focused on the production of experimental poetry in audio form with an emphasis on cross disciplinary collaboration, community building, and general workaday cultural practice. Recent releases include: Buck Downs, Pontiac Fever Garrett Caples, Surrealism's Bad Rap Rod Smith , Fear the Sky Keep your peepers peeled for our collaborations with Newlights Press and future partnering with RockHeals.com *Performer Bios* **A native of Jones County, Miss., Buck Downs lives and works in Washington= , DC. Edge Books published his book Marijuana Softdrink. Narrow House release= d the chapdisc Pontiac Fever in 2006. Recent work can be found online at fascicle.com and onedit.net. **Amy King is the author of the poetry collection, Antidotes for an Alibi (Blazevox Books), which was a Lambda Book Award finalist, and the chapbook The People Instruments (Pavement Saw Press Chapbook Award 2002). Her poems appear in numerous online and print journals, including The Brooklyn Rail, CutBank, LIT, The Mississippi Review, Milk Magazine, MiPoesias, No Tell Motel, and Shampoo Poetry. She teaches creative writing and English at Nassau Community College. She received her MFA from Brooklyn College and he= r MA from SUNY Buffalo. She is also an interview correspondent for miPOradio. **Rodrigo Toscano is the author of To Leveling Swerve (Krupskaya Books, 2004), Platform (Atelos, 2003), The Disparities (Green Integer, 2002), and Partisans (O Books, 1999). His work has recently appeared in Best American Poetry (Scribners, 2004) and War and Peace (O Books, 2004). His poetry has been translated into French, German, Spanish, Portuguese, and Italian. Toscano is originally from San Diego and San Francisco California. He lives in New York City. **Rupert Wondolowski was found as a toddler behind a Pep Boys in Curtis Bay= , Md. A Salvation Army captain and the captain's elderly mother took him in and raised Rupert in a dinner theater in Olney, Md., where the walls often writhed "Repulsion"-like with the words of Neil Simon. The captain read frequently to him when he was a child, but he addended each story with "and they all died terribly, hanging from trees." Lunchmeat, soapings, and Batman. College when the body hair sprang. He started The Shattered Wig Review in 1988 with four other editors, who slowly dropped off. The Wig continues sidestapled to this day, earning such reviews as "Shattered Wig Review is the best of the many 'underground' experimental/surrealist magazines I have encountered in recent years. It is a mother lode of strangeness =8A highly recommended" by Writer's Keeper magazine. He is the author of The Whispering of Ice Cubes, Humans Go Outside to Hurt You, Shiny Pencils, and a few others. He's a semi-regular on-air contributor to WYPR's The Signal. He's currently negotiating a book deal with Random House to publish his self-help book Fear Is My Weight Loss Program. **music** "Old Songs (Mark Jickling and Chris Mason) have been translating archaic Greek poetry from 7th to 4th centuries B.C. and putting them to old-timey folk music. They have put out several CD's with songs by Sappho, Hipponax, Alcman, Archilochus, and others. "Concerned with love, the afterlife, dreams, and wishful thinking, Mason and Jickling's translations turn the Greek into Smithsonian Folkways snapshots, offering a view of ancient Greec= e as earthy, rustic, and lived-in." -Bret McCabe, City Paper Mark Jickling was born in Chicago on the day that Muddy Waters recorded Still A Fool.=20 Chris Mason is a member of The Tinklers and Old Songs. He performed text-action-soundperformance pieces extensively with Marshall Reese and other poets/composers as part of CoAccident in the late =B970s. His poetry books are Poems of a Doggy (pod books, Baltimore, 1977) and Click Poems (Shabby Editions, London, 1982). =8B=8B=8B=8B=8B=8B Directions: C/E to 23rd St., 1/9 to 18th St. Venue is bet. 10th and 11th avenues =20 http://www.narrowhouse.org/ http://home.mindspring.com/~oldsongs/ Next event, Tues. Aug. 17, Season 4 Kickoff 9 NYC Small Presses and their editors. Fence, Fungo Monographs, Futurepoem Books, Hanging Loose Press, Kitchen Press, Lungfull, Open 24 Hours, Portabl= e Press at Yo-Yo Labs, and Sona Books. =8B=20 David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 23:16:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: RIP MICKEY SPILLANE In-Reply-To: <44BD3599.7652.D11A8A5@marcus.designerglass.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 00:17:00 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: philosophy question Comments: To: jim@VISPO.COM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jim, Thank you for the detailed response. I have saved your explanation of the=20 difference between the countably and the uncountably infinite. In mathematics proofs ahave always been elusive to me, but I have an=20 instinctual understanding of inherent philosophical issues, Lat night I wrot= e a=20 response to one of the posts on this thread (by whom I can not tell at this=20= moment,=20 which I could not e-mail due to the strictures about the number of posts in=20= a=20 single day. I am insering it here. What I say about the issue of the "new,"=20= of=20 change in Wittgenstein's view of language has a lot to do with the idea of=20 undeductiblity, of incompleteness. Be well: > "At root, Wittgenstein held that what he called "the mystical" was the mos= t=20 > important aspect of human life and that the great irony of our existence i= s=20 > that there is no way to talk about such things as absolute good, god, or t= he=20 > will in a way that has any sense. That is, the meanings of the sentences y= ou=20 > make about those things collapse because they have no public grounds. Far=20 > from the empirical rejection that the positivists saw, wittgenstein correc= tly=20 > perceived this as a grammatical trouble with the way language works, and=20 > suggested as therapy that we simply > stop trying to talk about such things when they frustrate or upset us, but= =20 > also pointed out at times that running up against the limits of language i= s a=20 > noble thing and that he admired and said that he would never try to dissua= de=20 > someone from doing so. I think he just figured it would be better to do so= =20 > realizing the futility of it than to do it thinking one was actually sayin= g=20 > something meaningful and profound." >=20 >=20 Exactly, what is the difference between calling an activity nonsensical or a= =20 noble failure? In other words, does language in any given moment contain only the uses in=20 its past or also in its future? If the second, it is not a jail any more. If= =20 only the first, as a close system, can never change, which obviously is not=20= true.=20 I think the idea of "change" is the key issue in Wittgenstein? Did he see statements on language as statements on a close system or not. If= =20 so, to me, finally he is an empiricist. If not, then assertions about langua= ge=20 constitute a third kind of statement, neither a priori nor empirical; rather= ,=20 "metaphysical." Ciao, Murat" In a message dated 7/18/06 4:44:50 PM, jim@VISPO.COM writes: > > Thank you for your beautiful, even lyrical, post. Could you > > elaborate for me > > what is the distinction between countably and uncountably > > infinite? Not being > > a mathematcian, I am not clear what that means. >=20 > Thanks, Murat. It's quite a story, really, how Cantor's work is used by > Godel and Turing. And it's a story with deep relevance concerning > epistemology and language. But I'll just post here on the distinction > between the countably and the uncountably infinite. >=20 > First, we note that there are two ways to compare the size of two > collections of things. We can count the number of things in each collectio= n > and compare the resulting two numbers, or we can do it without counting th= e > number of things in each collection. How? See if the elements of the > collections can be paired off with one another. For instance, if we compar= e > the collection {a,b,c} with {d,e,f} we can pair the two sets off: >=20 > a -> d > b -> e > c -> f >=20 > So, without counting the number of things in either collection, we can > nonetheless compare the size of the two collections. >=20 > By definition, the set of 'natural numbers' A=3D{1,2,3,...} is 'countably > infinite'. Any set that can be put in one-to-one correspondence with (or,=20= in > other words, 'completely paired off with') this set is also 'countably > infinite'. For instance, the set of even 'natural numbers' B=3D{2,4,6,...}= is > 'countably infinite': >=20 > A=A0 =A0 B > 1 -> 2 > 2 -> 4 > 3 -> 6 > .=A0 =A0 . > .=A0 =A0 . > .=A0 =A0 . >=20 > via the function f(x)=3D2x. In the above little diagram, any element of A > appears in the left column, and any element of B appears in the right > column. Which is to say the two sets can be put in 'one-to-one > correspondence' or, in other words, the elements of the two sets can be > 'paired off' in such a way that each element of each set is part of a pair= ; > 5 is paired with 10, for instance. >=20 > So apparently the two sets are 'of the same size' or are, in technical > lingo, 'equivalent'. This is slightly surprising, given that the set of ev= en > counting numbers is a proper subset of the set of counting numbers. But we > are dealing with countably infinite sets. >=20 > As it turns out, the set of positive rational numbers is also 'countably > infinite'. Recall that a 'rational number' is one that can be expressed as > a/b where a and b are counting numbers. There is a little proof of this fa= ct > at http://www.homeschoolmath.net/teaching/rational-numbers-countable.php >=20 > This is somewhat surprising because the set of rational numbers is > apparently much larger than the set of natural numbers. We can see this by > noting that there are infinitely many rational numbers between 1 and 2. >=20 > At this point, we might conjecture that *any* two infinite sets are > countable. But this is not true. There are sets so large that they are not > countable. That this is so is explained quite well at > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantor's_diagonal_argument . Here we see > Cantor's famous proof that the set of all possible sequences of zeros and > ones is uncountable. >=20 > Why does this turn out to be of significance concerning epistemology? >=20 > Well, in a nutshell, it's possible to prove, for instance, that each of th= e > propositions deducible from the axioms of set theory is expressible as a > finitely long string of symbols, and that the collection of all deducible > propositions is countable. But it is also possible to use Cantor's diagona= l > argument to show that there exist, nonetheless, true propositions that are > not deducible from the axioms of set theory. And that, more generally, > however rich the set of axioms is, there will always exist true propositio= ns > not deducible from the axioms. Which is to say the basis of our knowledge=20= is > always 'incomplete'. >=20 > ja > http://vispo.com >=20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 00:19:56 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Stefans Subject: New Videos Comments: To: ubuweb@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've put a few new videos up on Free Space Comix: http://www.arras.net/fscIII/?p=138 Popahna. 2004. 11:25 mins. 20.7 mb. With Tyler Carter, Popahna Brandes, Natalia Stefans. Music by Leos Janacek, Public Image Ltd., L Voag. A short drama shot in Providence in a low-tech "Alphaville" style charting the adventures of a protagonist, "The Flaneur," as he seeks to take down the Ice Queen, "Popahna," who weaves her magic from a hideaway known as the "Arcade." In the meantime, other secrets of their relationship are revealed. In German with subtitles. Self Portrait as the Shroud of Turin. 2004. 3:42 mins. 2.7 mb. Depending on your mood, this is either four minutes of me noodling around in my room or a profound exploration of what it must be like shooting mini-DV video after death by overdose. For the martyr in all of us. Sirius Returned. 2004. 2:58 mins. 3.7 mb. Starring Durango. Inspired by Stan Brakhage's short film, Sirius Remembered, which centered around the remains of his dog that he discovered in the woods around his home (shot in extremely short bursts of a few frames as was his technique), this short experimental video is completely unedited, but has been reshot in reverse through the viewfinder of another camera. I think it's cool. How Are Them Raviolis? 2004. 5:26 mins. 4.9 mb. With Kelli Auerbach, Brian Kim Stefans. I class this as a "performance piece" but I'm not going to tell you what the rules were, you just have to find out. Partly inspired by some Vito Acconci videos I was looking at, or maybe William Wegman. The sound is not so good, but it's worth listening to as I recreate the voices of my New Jersey youth. Mouths. 2004. 3:13 mins. 9.3 mb. With Brian Kim Stefans and brief appearances by Rodrigo Toscano, Kim Rosenfield and others. Soundtrack includes reading by Ed Sanders and a sound piece by Marcel Duchamp. This was actually taped by Tim Davis, poet and photographer, in something like 2000 or so in a small bookstore in Williamsburg, but I reshot it in reverse through another camera. Only very slightly edited toward the end. The soundtrack is really funny if offensive. There's Something About Barney. 2004. 3:35 mins. 3.7 mb. With Brian Kim Stefans. Inspired by Alvin Lucier's "I Am Sitting In A Room," I recorded the same monologe nine-times and progressively increased certain video and audio filters. The monologue is really a scandalous attack on Barney the Dinosaur that I had discovered on the web and re-edited. I created a Flash telepromter to keep it all synched, but it got pretty sloppy anyway. Here's a repost of the Kluge videos with brief descriptions: http://www.arras.net/fscIII/?p=104 Vex 1. 2005. 2:08 mins. 29.1 mb. With Christian Nagler. Sound by Christof Migone and Gregory Whitehead from their series "Cris-cris." Short vignette in which our hero is plunged into a dream world of homoerotic doubles and hellish fish. Vex 4. 2005. 3:14 mins. 73.5 mb. With Christian Nagler, Michael Gizzi. Sound by Christof Migone and Gregory Whitehead from their series "Cris-cris." More conceptual than "Vex 1," utilizing found footage from the web. The poet Michael Gizzi free associates while destroying a piece of toast as revolution moves apace. Vex 5. 2005. 1:09 mins. 25.9 mb. With Christian Nagler. Sound by Christof Migone and Gregory Whitehead from their series "Cris-cris." This is the crowd favorite. Air balloons, hellish fish, lobsters. Postscript. 2005. 1:56 mins. 26.7 mb. A sort of postscript to the "Vex" series but not part of it. A fish has dreams also, in this case of the hell of industrialization (via the synechdoche of tricycles). Well, probably not worth reading into. Manchurian Rainman. 2005. 6:19 mins. 86.5 mb. With Frank Sinatra, Laurence Harvey. Two Japanese teenagers, one inflected with a mild case of autism, discuss their addictions. Ferrari Dogs. 2005. 45 secs. 29.5 mb. With Angelina Jolie. Music by Morrissey. This one would make a good Skittles commercial. Our heroine makes her escape through a dreamlike mountainscape pursued by the pet dog she just can't do without. Love everywhere. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 00:55:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Ciccariello Subject: The inner vista of prospect-refuge MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline A landscape poem. The inner vista of prospect-refuge Prospect-refuge-hazard in language. http://tinyurl.com/zj7k5 - Peter Ciccariello http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 01:49:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Heatstrings Blog MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Recently on the Heatstrings blog, where there are things besides language and facts tend to exist: comment on the newly rechristened DAVID HOROWITZ CENTER FOR FREEDOM sound file by poet A.B. Spellman What's Wrong with Folrida II? etc. -- http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 01:55:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: philosophy question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit fk gd i was havin a nice time at the beach today then while lookin at the freaks gd made me stub my toe on a rock gd made it's big read black and blue uch ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 23:10:33 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: philosophy question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable the rock or ur toe? =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Steve Dalachinsky=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 10:55 PM Subject: Re: philosophy question fk gd i was havin a nice time at the beach today then while lookin at the freaks gd made me stub my toe on a rock gd made it's big read black and blue uch ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 23:13:38 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: Re: philosophy question In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit g-d alexander saliby wrote: > the rock > or ur toe? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Steve Dalachinsky > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 10:55 PM > Subject: Re: philosophy question > > > fk gd > > i was havin a nice time at the beach today > then while lookin at the freaks > gd made me stub my toe on > a rock gd made > it's big read black and blue > uch > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 23:26:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: sight and sound MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Any body else been here? http://www.oddmusic.com/gallery/index.html We need a similar site for oddpoetry does one already exist? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 00:02:57 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: philosophy question Comments: To: MuratNN@aol.com In-Reply-To: <360.861f2ad.31ef0c3c@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -----Original Message----- From: MuratNN@aol.com [mailto:MuratNN@aol.com] Sent: July 18, 2006 9:17 PM To: jim@vispo.com; POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: philosophy question Jim, Thank you for the detailed response. I have saved your explanation of the difference between the countably and the uncountably infinite. In mathematics proofs ahave always been elusive to me, but I have an instinctual understanding of inherent philosophical issues, Lat night I wrote a response to one of the posts on this thread (by whom I can not tell at this moment, which I could not e-mail due to the strictures about the number of posts in a single day. I am insering it here. What I say about the issue of the "new," of change in Wittgenstein's view of language has a lot to do with the idea of undeductiblity, of incompleteness. Be well: "At root, Wittgenstein held that what he called "the mystical" was the most important aspect of human life and that the great irony of our existence is that there is no way to talk about such things as absolute good, god, or the will in a way that has any sense. That is, the meanings of the sentences you make about those things collapse because they have no public grounds. Far from the empirical rejection that the positivists saw, wittgenstein correctly perceived this as a grammatical trouble with the way language works, and suggested as therapy that we simply stop trying to talk about such things when they frustrate or upset us, but also pointed out at times that running up against the limits of language is a noble thing and that he admired and said that he would never try to dissuade someone from doing so. I think he just figured it would be better to do so realizing the futility of it than to do it thinking one was actually saying something meaningful and profound." Exactly, what is the difference between calling an activity nonsensical or a noble failure? In other words, does language in any given moment contain only the uses in its past or also in its future? If the second, it is not a jail any more. If only the first, as a close system, can never change, which obviously is not true. I think the idea of "change" is the key issue in Wittgenstein? Did he see statements on language as statements on a close system or not. If so, to me, finally he is an empiricist. If not, then assertions about language constitute a third kind of statement, neither a priori nor empirical; rather, "metaphysical." Ciao, Murat" Hi Murat, I confess I am not familiar with Wittgenstein's writing though I have often read others talking about his ideas. It's interesting to google "Godel Wittgenstein" (without the quotation marks). I get the impression that Godel was way beyond Wittgenstein as an innovative and insightful logician. Perhaps Wittgenstein was still mired in the brouhaha of controversy over the 'potentially infinite' versus the 'actually infinite'. Whereas Godel had moved beyond that to use the methods of Cantor where the line between the worldly and the otherworldly is more aptly situated between the countable and the uncountable. Not really in the sense that this world necessarily manifests the infinite but in the sense that mathematical logic can proceed with relative consistency while assuming the existence of the actually (countably) infinite. I think the work of Cantor, Godel, and Turing is an inspiration concerning how far we can proceed without necessarily spouting nonsense on matters of deep relevance to philosophy. And their work is more consequential than that of Wittgenstein in mathematical logic. I know Wittgenstein is more widely read than Godel or Turing. Also, I am under the impression that no one has effectively disproved my little argument that there is something God can't do. I have tried to answer serious questions about it seriously, and only Amy King's objection seems to me to apply logic to the matter in a convincing way. But her rebuttal comes at the expense of a reduction of the universe to chaos. "God can do something God can't do" implies God can do the logically impossible. My intuition is that we are free to take either side in this matter or to take all alternatives with a grain of salt. The victories of my mathematical heroes--Pythagoras, Archimedes, Eratosthenes, Euclid, Gauss, Newton, Leibnitz, Cantor, Godel, and Turing--and many others--move me to reject Amy's proposition; while the victories of my poet heroes move me to a position with some appreciation of the depth of the irrational, the chaotic, the myserious, the incomprehensible, the disordered, the accidental, the random... Also, I am as conflicted as you concerning the weight natural language can manage. But I think the work of Cantor, Godel, and Turing is inspirational in this regard. There's some interesting speculation at http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/goldstein05/goldstein05_index.html by Rebecca Goldstein concerning Godel's views on Wittgenstein (search for "Wittgenstein"). But I'm under the impression that Godel's Platonism was something he struggled with more earnestly in his productive years and gave in to in his later years. The poor man did go a bit loon later on (so did Cantor and Turing committed suicide by eating a poisoned apple). Godel starved himself to death because he feared his food was being poisoned. I remember Martin Davis, in his fabulous book "Engines of Logic" quotes Godel's having said something like 'Platonism is not a viable philosophical position' in the years of his productive work. But it's true, at least later on, that he came to believe very deeply in Platonism. There's an interesting review by John Martin of "Incompleteness: The Proof and Paradox of Kurt Gödel" by Rebecca Goldstein at http://www.maa.org/reviews/GoldsteinIncompleteness.html See I think that we are capable of the sort of profound insight that Cantor, Godel and Turing came back with. And these insights were *both* about limitations and really forward-looking possibilities that continue to influence not only theoretical work but even things like the rise of the language machine. ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 02:14:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Herb Levy Subject: Re: sight and sound In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit alexander saliby wrote: > Any body else been here? > > http://www.oddmusic.com/gallery/index.html > > > We need a similar site for oddpoetry > > does one already exist? > > For downloadable texts, audio/video recordings, mags and journals etc., www.ubu.com is a MUCH richer and more varied site than the musical site you cite. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 00:34:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: philosophy question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > indeed. moreover, it's not even true that all axiomatic systems > are incomplete. Axiomatized Euclidean geometry is provably > complete, as are various axiomatizations of first order > sentential and predicate logics. What you say is true, but perhaps it is confusing to some, because you use the word 'complete' in valid ways that reveal something of its complexity. As you know, "In mathematical logic, a system is 'complete' if it contains either S or ~S for every sentence S generatable in the system's language" (from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complete ). As we read at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euclidean_geometry in the section titled "Logical Status", the systems to which you refer are complete only because the languages they express are not sufficiently rich for Godel's theorem to apply to them. In other words, they are complete only because the range of truths they can express is not as great as 'even' that of arithmetic. The validity of Godel's results, as you know, depends on the systems/languages being sufficiently rich. > As a matter of fact that there > are true arithmetic propositions which we can't deduce from first > principles in arithmetic has always struck me as being sort of > trivial. Well, I agree that it is somewhat 'intuitive' that there will always be truths that are not discoverable from our assumptions. But, given the history of this issue, I don't agree it can accurately be described as "trivial". It seems to me that this understanding was probably important to Turing's solving the Entscheidungsproblem (the 'decision problem' at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entscheidungsproblem ), for instance, and the Entscheidungsproblem was listed by Hilbert as one of the great unsolved mathematical problems of its time. Also, before its publication, there were many people who felt we were only a short time away from proving that there *could* exist an algorithm to decide the truth of any proposition. But Godel's results tempered the age with some humility concerning the limits of knowledge. And understanding such limitations turned out to be very positive work in its also paving the way for Turing's theory of the language machine (and understanding of its limitations, albeit ones that do not preclude the possibility that thought itself is computable). Turing theorized the computer as a means to solve the Entscheidungsproblem; he was more interested in solving that problem than inventing the computer. And who wouldn't be? Gorgeous work. ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 01:29:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Hugh Steinberg Subject: Re: sight and sound In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I'm not sure I'd trust a site about unusual music and musical instruments that didn't mention Harry Partch. Hugh Steinberg --- alexander saliby wrote: > Any body else been here? > > http://www.oddmusic.com/gallery/index.html > > > We need a similar site for oddpoetry > > does one already exist? > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 12:13:24 +0200 Reply-To: argotist@fsmail.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Side Subject: New poems by Steve Dalachinsky and Jim Leftwich Comments: To: British Poetics , WRYTING Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit New poems by Steve Dalachinsky and Jim Leftwich at The Argotist Online: http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Dalachinsky%20&%20Leftwich%20poems.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 07:36:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: FW: New liveartwork DVD just out. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Thought this may be of interest to many-- >liveartwork DVD issue 3, July 2006 Now Released! >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >July sees the release of the third issue of liveartwork DVD, a unique >publication which showcases contemporary, international performance art >work. > >Issue 3 features documentation of the debut of Lone Twin Theatre's >first narrative based theatre work, 'Alice Bell'; extracts from the >most recent appearance by legendary performance art group Black Market >International and 'FunnySorryJesus', Norwegian performance theatre >group Baktruppen's very unique interpretation of the Bible. Also >featured are solo performance works from Sylvette Babin (Canada), Paul >Granjon (UK) and Mark Wayman (UK). > >With a new issue published every three months, liveartwork DVD aims to >present an overview of contemporary performance art practice to an >international audience. > >Remember, all issues of liveartwork DVD are available in both PAL and >NTSC video formats. > >See the liveartwork DVD website at www.liveartwork.com/dvd for full >details about the publication, the artists and works featured on issue >3. > >Ordering: >------------- >liveartwork DVD issue 3 is published on DVD-R, PAL or NTSC format discs >and costs 10 Euros for individual orders, including international >postage costs. liveartwork DVD can be ordered using most credit / debit >cards, PayPal or bank transfer. For details of how to order see: >www.liveartwork.com/dvd/order.htm > >Copies of the two previous issues of liveartwork DVD can also be >ordered on the website. > >Submissions: >------------------------------ >liveartwork DVD welcomes submissions of video documentation of live >performance art works for possible inclusion in future issues. If you >wish to make a submission please read the guidelines at >www.liveartwork.com/dvd/submissions.htm > >liveartwork Homepage: >-------------------------------- >Please also take a look at the liveartwork homepage at >www.liveartwork.com which provides a range of resources for the >international performance art community. > >Christopher Hewitt >liveartwork DVD >www.liveartwork.com/dvd >law@liveartwork.com > > >--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >"The Performance List" group. >To post to this group, send email to performancelist@googlegroups.com >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >performancelist-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >For more options, visit this group at >http://groups.google.com/group/performancelist >-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- > _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 06:30:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adam Fieled Subject: "Stoning the Devil" back on the air MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit After a hiatus, Stoning the Devil (http://www.adamfieled.blogspot.com) is back on the air. Two new features include: --Tom Devaney in JACKET --Gina Myers in MIPOESIAS much more is to come. Also, check out Canadian poet Tammy Armstrong on PFS Post (http://www.artrecess.blogspot.com). --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 09:06:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: sight and sound In-Reply-To: <20060719082939.94856.qmail@web36508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Trust it, we're a great bunch of oddmusicians. The gallery is mostly focused on people who are members of the oddmusic mailing list or are lesser known and is not meant to be comprehensive. Partch's work is well documented elsewhere. ~mIEKAL On Jul 19, 2006, at 3:29 AM, Hugh Steinberg wrote: > I'm not sure I'd trust a site about unusual music and musical > instruments that didn't mention > Harry Partch. > > Hugh Steinberg > > --- alexander saliby wrote: > >> Any body else been here? >> >> http://www.oddmusic.com/gallery/index.html> gallery/index.html> >> >> >> We need a similar site for oddpoetry >> >> does one already exist? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 09:45:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: Re: sight and sound In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable how do you determine what odd poetry is? isn't this the kind of question poets rattle their pencases over? I (think I) know odd when I see it, but what's the verse equivalent of a nanoguitar (http://www.oddmusic.com/gallery/om22000.html)?? -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of alexander saliby Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 1:27 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: sight and sound Any body else been here? http://www.oddmusic.com/gallery/index.html We need a similar site for oddpoetry does one already exist? =20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 10:20:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: sight and sound In-Reply-To: <54AA9B41BC35F34EAD02E660901D8A5A07ACB2D6@TLRUSMNEAGMBX10.ERF.THOMSON.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.ekac.org/biopoetry.html On Jul 19, 2006, at 9:45 AM, Tom W. Lewis wrote: > > I (think I) know odd when I see it, but what's the verse equivalent > of a > nanoguitar (http://www.oddmusic.com/gallery/om22000.html)?? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 10:30:10 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: Re: sight and sound In-Reply-To: <4107618E-E4E4-4306-86C2-19F7B8AD1084@mwt.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable see, the universe is infinite: contains everything within it... next we'll be playing chords on 10-dimensional superstring dulcimers... -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of mIEKAL aND Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 10:21 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: sight and sound http://www.ekac.org/biopoetry.html On Jul 19, 2006, at 9:45 AM, Tom W. Lewis wrote: > > I (think I) know odd when I see it, but what's the verse equivalent =20 > of a > nanoguitar (http://www.oddmusic.com/gallery/om22000.html)?? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 02:35:10 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: philosophy question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit my gd the fkin toe tow bound to lose that nail that gd made gd amned nail big red ugly gd nail toe gd INRI = i'm nailed right in not gd but the other guy folks think is gd how manty of you out there yabberin about gd are christians a totally different equation i take it gd the son of gd ha one of em made me stub my tow as i got caught in ther under toe lookin at all the freaks that gd made gd made me stub my toe now it's all red not read & ugly &black and blue and the nail's hangin off gd's toe in tow i'm gd she says gd - - - ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 11:50:58 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: Dear American Poetry Review (sent to their Philadelphia office this morning) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear APR, it astounds me you would mention Ruth Stone and Robert Bly on the cover of your May/June 2006 issue and NOT Anne Waldman. Do you ACTUALLY believe, is it possible you sincerely believe Stone and Bly could be changing the world, and changing poetry more than Anne Waldman? Your beige vision FRIGHTENS me! And how about the latest issue, where you publish Rae Armantrout's fantastic "New Genres." She is one of the most brilliant minds in American poetry today, but is not mentioned on the cover. Nor is her photograph even included. APR is a sad case for alerting the rest of the world what America has to offer. When I hear the French and Germans complain that American poetry is boring I blame you and your ridiculous magazine! And I find myself having to do damage control to PROVE how wrong they are about American poetry, by proving how wrong YOU are! The ONLY reason I pick up APR at all is to open and find that ONE, or sometimes TWO truly brilliant minds filled with that molten, original fire that makes poetry Poetry! Stop giving American poetry such a terrible reputation! Start putting the true geniuses on your cover before you dare print and distribute. Start understanding what's really going on in poetry these days, something you are without a doubt out of touch with. ABSOLUTELY SICK OF YOU! CAConrad CAConrad is the author of Deviant Propulsion (Soft Skull Press, 2006) for poem samples from the book go to: _http://CAConrad.blogspot.com_ (http://caconrad.blogspot.com/) "Those who restrain desire, do so because theirs is weak enough to be restrained...." --William Blake for PhillySound: NEW POETRY: _http://PhillySound.blogspot.com_ (http://phillysound.blogspot.com/) for CAConrad's tarot services:_ http://LightOfLakshmi.blogspot.com_ (http://lightoflakshmi.blogspot.com/) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 12:30:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "St. Thomasino" Subject: Meat Epoch reviews at the blog-auxiliary Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed . Greetings, Everybody -- Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino here: Du-du-du-during the nineties I did a little photocopy-and-staple=20 "art-lit" 'zine called "Meat Epoch." (Not quite the Mondo Carne.=20 Thankfully. . . .) I published poetry and essays and artwork and visual=20= poetry and I wrote reviews of other 'zines and of journals and of chaps=20= and Meat Epoch sort of became my access into the then still somewhat=20 subterranean world of 'zines and the mirco-press. It is my pleasure to=20= present at the e=B7ratio blog-auxiliary (Break for applause. And thank=20= you.) an ongoing series of some choice pieces from Meat Epoch. No doubt=20= there is much here you will recognize. =97Should you wish to research = the=20 whole micro-press and small 'zine phenomenon you cannot do better than=20= to begin at Mr. Robert Drake's smashing periodical TapRoot Reviews=20 (accessible via the EPC), and you might also check out Factsheet 5. One=20= thing that cannot be emphasized enough is that the works under review=20 here ARE HIGHLY COLLECTABLE. http://eratio.blogspot.com/ . =46rom Meat Epoch #22, 1997: Review of the journal River City. Review of John M. Bennett's Prime Sway. Review of Jack Foley's Exiles. Review of Mark Wallace's The Lawless Man. Review of the journal The Minnesota Review. . I thank you so, Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino http://eratio.blogspot.com/ . ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 12:41:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: philosophy question In-Reply-To: <20060719.113040.-92455.3.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Steve I'm no theologian, but I think you've just created a(n) (un)holy trinity of sorts. There's 1) god's will 2) free will 3) watching where you're going, you klutz If you want to refute all of these, wear shoes. That seems like an agnostic position in the situation you describe. Atheists wear steel tips. Vernon http://vernonfrazer.com -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Steve Dalachinsky Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 2:35 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: philosophy question my gd the fkin toe tow bound to lose that nail that gd made gd amned nail big red ugly gd nail toe gd INRI = i'm nailed right in not gd but the other guy folks think is gd how manty of you out there yabberin about gd are christians a totally different equation i take it gd the son of gd ha one of em made me stub my tow as i got caught in ther under toe lookin at all the freaks that gd made gd made me stub my toe now it's all red not read & ugly &black and blue and the nail's hangin off gd's toe in tow i'm gd she says gd - - - ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 11:57:10 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: philosophy question In-Reply-To: <20060719164157.ZMXW1324.ibm63aec.bellsouth.net@vernon> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit god swill "Look at any word long enough and you will see it open up into a series of faults into a terrain of particles each containing its own void." --Robert Smithson Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@gmail.com halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Jul 19, 2006, at 11:41 AM, Vernon Frazer wrote: > Steve > > I'm no theologian, but I think you've just created a(n) (un)holy > trinity of > sorts. > > There's > > 1) god's will > 2) free will > 3) watching where you're going, you klutz > > If you want to refute all of these, wear shoes. That seems like an > agnostic > position in the situation you describe. Atheists wear steel tips. > > Vernon > http://vernonfrazer.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > Behalf Of Steve Dalachinsky > Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 2:35 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: philosophy question > > my gd the fkin toe > tow > bound to lose that nail > that gd made > gd amned nail > big red ugly > gd > nail > toe > gd > > INRI = i'm nailed right in not gd but the other guy folks > think is > gd > how manty of you out there yabberin about gd are christians > a totally different equation i take it > gd the son of gd ha one of em made me stub my tow > as i got caught in ther under toe > lookin at all the freaks that gd made > gd made me stub my toe > now it's all red not read & ugly &black and blue > and the nail's hangin off gd's toe in tow > i'm gd she says gd - - - ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 10:35:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: philosophy question In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Murat and Jim, I'm going to roll this response into one email, hope you don't mind. Murat: > > Exactly, what is the difference between calling an activity nonsensical or > a noble failure? > > In other words, does language in any given moment contain only the uses in > its past or also in its future? If the second, it is not a jail any more. If > only the first, as a close system, can never change, which obviously is not > true. I think the idea of "change" is the key issue in Wittgenstein? > Did he see statements on language as statements on a close system or not. > If so, to me, finally he is an empiricist. If not, then assertions about > language constitute a third kind of statement, neither a priori nor > empirical; rather, "metaphysical." Wittgenstein didn't see language as nearly that orderly and he would have balked at describing it as any kind of system at all. Rather, he used the model of the language-game to illustrate how language is arbitrary, irregular, publicly grounded, and highly contextual. From a higher order perspective Wittgenstein regularly allows for two kinds of grounds for sentences, grammar in his special sense of the word that includes issues of what linguistics usually calls semantics and pragmatics along with syntax, and empirical factors. But by empirical factors he allows also for imaginations, flights of fancy, dreams, and various things that are not considered hard aspects of the material world. Which is to say, when he's talking about empirical facts, he's talking about sense-data plus every other kind of personal experience with public criteria, and as such is quite different from a traditional empiricist. Grammatical facts are facts about the way language is used and include such things as mathematics, logic, and less intuitively, things like anthropology, poetry, and music. Your question about closed and open systems and language change don't make a lot of sense. Wittgenstein never explicitly addressed language change as far as I can recall, but it presents no problems for his analysis. More importantly though, the fact of language change doesn't change the nature of things that can't be spoken of meaningfully, and the limits of language remain the limits of language. Jim: > I confess I am not familiar with Wittgenstein's writing though I have > often read others talking about his ideas. It's interesting to google "Godel > Wittgenstein" (without the quotation marks). I get the impression that Godel > was way beyond Wittgenstein as an innovative and insightful logician. > Perhaps Wittgenstein was still mired in the brouhaha of controversy over the > 'potentially infinite' versus the 'actually infinite'. Whereas Godel had > moved beyond that to use the methods of Cantor where the line between the > worldly and the otherworldly is more aptly situated between the countable > and the uncountable. Not really in the sense that this world necessarily > manifests the infinite but in the sense that mathematical logic can proceed > with relative consistency while assuming the existence of the actually > (countably) infinite. > I think the work of Cantor, Godel, and Turing is an inspiration concerning > how far we can proceed without necessarily spouting nonsense on matters of > deep relevance to philosophy. And their work is more consequential than that > of Wittgenstein in mathematical logic. I know Wittgenstein is more widely > read than Godel or Turing. If you're familiar at all with the work of Brouwer on the foundations of mathematics, or at all familiar with the ideas of the "intuitionist" school of mathematical logic, there's an analogy to be drawn between their work on the subject and Wittgensteins. I'll confess that set theoretic proofs and second order logic tends to make my head swim so it's hard for me to really get a handle on a lot that such mathematicians talk about. That having been said, I do know that Wittgenstein makes some very lucid and pointed criticism's about Cantor's diagonal proof in the second appendix to the notebooks published collectively as "Remarks on the Foundations of Mathematics." The criticisms are directed not at the proof itself but rather at the logicism it inspired and at some of the claims about transfinite numbers and set theory that it purports to show. For Wittgenstein, extensions of mathematical principles were interesting but overvalued and as grammatical statements, do not reveal anything about the nature of the world, but rather, only reveal things about the nature of mathematics. I generally don't care very much about the philosophy of mathematics so I don't follow it very closely, but since you're a Turing fan, you might be interested to know that Turing attended one of Wittgenstein's classes on the foundations of mathematics in the late thirties, and the two had lively ongoing debates that were written down verbatim but a couple of W's students who were in the habit of taking stenographer style notes at his lectures. The debates are published verbatim in the book entitled Wittgenstein's Lectures on the Philosophy of Mathematics and are a pretty good read. They will probably give you a better idea about Wittgenstein's Philosophy of Math than I could. As to your reference about his relevance to mathematical logic, it's worth pointing out that Wittgenstein invented truth tables in the Tractatus Logico Philosophicus, which, as I'm sure you know, are so widely used at this point that it's rare that professors point out to students that they even needed to be invented. As for Wittgenstein on Godel, there's a lot of critique over Wittgenstein's supposed misunderstanding of Godel. I think such interpretations of Wittgenstein are more likely various readers misunderstanding of Uncle L than Uncle L's misunderstanding of contemporary issues in mathematical logic. After all, at one point Russell considered Wittgenstein his natural heir and the person most likely to move forward from the Principia Mathematica to finally solve once and for all the problems facing logicism. That Wittgenstein abandoned such a notion as empty long before Godel published his proofs of the Incompleteness theorems I think goes a long way towards showing how sophisticated a mathematical think Uncle Ludwig was. There's a paper by Hilary Putnam, who I regard as a very nuanced and interesting reader of W, about a lot of these issues that's worth reading: staff.washington.edu/dalexand/ Putnam%20Readings/Notorious.pdf > Also, I am under the impression that no one has effectively disproved my > little argument that there is something God can't do. I have tried to answer > serious questions about it seriously, and only Amy King's objection seems to > me to apply logic to the matter in a convincing way. But her rebuttal comes > at the expense of a reduction of the universe to chaos. "God can do > something God can't do" implies God can do the logically impossible. My > intuition is that we are free to take either side in this matter or to take > all alternatives with a grain of salt. The victories of my mathematical > heroes--Pythagoras, Archimedes, Eratosthenes, Euclid, Gauss, Newton, > Leibnitz, Cantor, Godel, and Turing--and many others--move me to reject > Amy's proposition; while the victories of my poet heroes move me to a > position with some appreciation of the depth of the irrational, the chaotic, > the myserious, the incomprehensible, the disordered, the accidental, the > random... As far as this goes there are two problems which you haven't really addressed. The first is the red herring argument I brought up initially. That is, no one seriously makes the claim that God can do anything, so to say God can think of something that God can't do is uncontroversial and so your argument that "if God can't think of something God can't do, then there is something God can't do" is empty. See theologians as far back as St. Augustine for illustrations of what is and is not asserted about the nature of divine power. The second is much more difficult, and is entailed by the fact that "God" is not a sensibly predicable subject because there are no public grounds on which to determine whether predicates about God are true or false. That is to say, I can say "God looked like an enormous yellow halibut smoking a cigar when he created the world, but he started looking more like Cary Grant by the time he got around to creating the animals." and that has the same grammatical status as "God can think of something that God can't do." which is that both sentences are meaningless because they predicate to a subject which in symbolic logic might be expressed as VxGx, where A is god that should you substitute A for x, the truth or falsity of the statement becomes indeterminate. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 14:34:04 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: philosophy question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/19/06 1:35:50 PM, jfq@MYUW.NET writes: > Which is to say, when he's talking about empirical facts, he's talking > about sense-data plus every other kind of personal experience with public > criteria, > Jim, The key expression for me here is "public criteria." What does it exactly mean? Does it mean that the public criteria (is it different from usage?) is the "personal experience"? For instance, when I say I dreamt something, is that reporting the dreaming (dream?) itself? > and as such is quite different from a traditional > empiricist. Grammatical facts are facts about the way language is used and > include such things as mathematics, logic, and less intuitively, things like > anthropology, poetry, and music. Your question about closed and open systems > and language change don't make a lot of sense. Wittgenstein never explicitly > addressed language change as far as I can recall, but it presents no problems > for his analysis. > Could you explain to me how past usage determines the public criteria of a previously non-existent usage? > More importantly though, the fact of language change doesn't change the > nature of things that can't be spoken of meaningfully, and the limits of > language remain the limits of language. > We circle back to the same issue "can't be spoken of meaninfully" (public criteria). "The limits of language remain the limits of language" is an interesting tautology. Outside mathematics, this is a flesh and blood (political and moral) issue. With this "fact," do we roll over and go to sleep? Or do we rattle the cage and conceive of a space beyond. That is the question I am asking, both of us and questioning Wittgenstein's attitude. Ciao, Murat > > Jim: > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 15:24:24 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adam Morey Subject: Poetic New Bands MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I found two highly talented bands on myspace from the hudson valley region. Their lyrics and vocals are very poetic. One of the singers actually sounds a lot like Jim Morrison. myspace.com/pieces myspace.com/gunclubband ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 16:50:56 -0400 Reply-To: "Patrick F. Durgin" Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Patrick F. Durgin" Subject: Da Crouton blog Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Recently on Da Crouton / www.da-crouton.com Do Da Crouton Crumble Chez Dosh Centrist Loop A Thousand Devils + 3 installments of Death Trip Against U.S. Militarism http://www.da-crouton.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 15:31:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nico Vassilakis Subject: Reading: Geof Huth, Nico Vassilakis, Erica Kaufman in B=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=92klyn?= Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MiPo Reading Series Geof Huth Nico Vassilakis Erica Kaufman July 28th , 2006 7pm The Stain Bar 766 Grand Street Brooklyn 718-387-7840 http://miporeadingseries.blogspot.com/2006/04/july-28-2006.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 01:01:58 +0200 Reply-To: argotist@fsmail.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Side Subject: Simon Pettet poems at The Argotist Online Comments: To: British Poetics , WRYTING Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Pettet%20poems.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 19:08:30 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Larissa Shmailo Subject: Indonesia Relief Benefit Reading Tues July 25 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit FOOD FOR THE HUNGRY INDONESIA RELIEF BENEFIT Tuesday, July 25th, 8:00pm Come to READINGS ON THE LOWER EAST SIDE for readings and performances to benefit the Indonesia Relief efforts. This evening's event will include drama, comedy, poetry, prose and storytelling from NYC's finest. LES Gallery at The Clemente Soto Velez Cultural Center 107 Suffolk Street (btw. Rivington and Delancey Sts.) Subway: F to Delancey St; J, M, Z to Delancey-Essex Sts. $8 admission includes one drink. Proceeds will go to Food for the Hungry. FMI: _www.fh.org_ (http://www.fh.org/) Marie Sabatino & guest Iris N. Schwartz present: Bob Heman's writing has appeared in numerous publications, including Sentence, Paragraph, Quick Fiction, First Intensity, The Prose Poem: An International Journal, and Caliban. Since 1972 he has published and edited the experimental journal CLWN WR. He has performed his works at many venues, including The Poetry Project at St. Mark's, CBGB, The Brooklyn Museum, the University of Massachusetts, the New Jersey Historical Society, Bowery Poetry Club, and the FusionArts Museum. His "cut-outs" have been featured in a two-man show at The Brooklyn Museum, in a retrospective at BACA's Downtown Cultural Center, and in group shows in Toronto, Los Angeles, and Brooklyn. David Leopold grew up in the South and moved to New York during the great radical migration of the 1960s (one step ahead of the narcotics squad and the draft board). He trained with, among others, Herbert Berghof, Anna Sokolow, and Charles Weidman. His solo shows include Struggles of a Black Woman, at The Knitting Factory, and Phone Sex with a Stutterer, at Collective Unconscious. The Village Voice calls him: "The Prince of Perversion Himself," Backstage says: "Mort Sahl on Crack." Larissa Shmailo has been published in Newsweek, Rattapallax, Lungfull!, and other publications. She translated the Russian Futurist opera Victory over the Sun, performed at the Brooklyn Academy of Music, the Los Angeles County Museum, and the Hirshhorn Museum. Her poetry CD, The No-Net World, is available at _www.cdbaby.com_ (http://www.cdbaby.com/) , iTUNES, and _www.tower.com_ (http://www.tower.com/) and bookstores. Sherry Weaver can be found on the back of her orange Vespa, drinking margaritas with friends, riding her John Deere lawnmower upstate, loving her very wayward family beyond distraction, and listening to and telling stories. Her only membership: The F**king Cool Women Society. Sherry is the creator, producer, and host of SpeakEasy: Stories from the Back Room _www.speakeasystories.com_ (http://www.speakeasystories.com/) . Bill Zavatsky has just published a new book of poems, Where X Marks the Spot, with Hanging Loose Press. His other book of poetry is called Theories of Rain and Other Poems. He has translated French poetry, and his co-translation of Earthlight: Poems by Andre Breton won the PEN/Book-of-the-Month Translation Prize. He teaches English at the Trinity School in New York City. Please feel free to post, blog, list, and/or forward to friends. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 20:11:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Will Esposito Subject: Re: Dear American Poetry Review (sent to their Philadelphia office this morning) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit go Conrad! beige vision indeed. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 17:14:04 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lou Rowan Subject: Re: Reading: Geof Huth, Nico Vassilakis, Erica Kaufman in B'klyn MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Nico, good luck with Brooklyn. My son's bookstore, Spoonbill and = Sugartown, is right there on Bedford St if you want to say hello. best, = Lou ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Nico Vassilakis=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 3:31 PM Subject: Reading: Geof Huth, Nico Vassilakis, Erica Kaufman in B'klyn MiPo Reading Series Geof Huth Nico Vassilakis Erica Kaufman July 28th , 2006 7pm The Stain Bar 766 Grand Street Brooklyn 718-387-7840 = http://miporeadingseries.blogspot.com/2006/04/july-28-2006.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 20:32:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: george thompson Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Diane, Yes, kakai erides is nominative plural. It certainly does sound like something from Hesiod, as well as something from Duncan. I have browsed through my Loeb Hesiod, but I haven't found the relevant passage yet. In any case, welcome to the Poetics list from an old friend who spent some time with you in your lovely workshops during the 70's. Now I am a this list's solitary Sanskritist, among other things. George Thompson [who went from Duncan to the Vedas] ......................................... Yeah, Tom, I was wondering about that aspirate mark over erides (is that nominative plural, for eris?) Diane >> From: "Tom W. Lewis" >> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 14:19:07 -0500 >> To: >> Conversation: Duncan Ground Work >> Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work >>=20 >> thanks, Diane -- that makes a lot more sense. >>=20 >> =20 >>=20 >> I don=E2=80=99t know if this will come through in plain text, but here=E2=80=99s the = > > phrase >> spelled out in Greek: >>=20 >> * >>=20 >> =CE=BA=CE=B1=CE=BA=CE=B1=CE=B9 =CE=B5=CF=81=CE=B9=CE=B4=CE=B5=CF=82 >>=20 >> =20 >>=20 >> transliterated: >>=20 >> =20 >>=20 >> kakai erides >>=20 >> =20 >>=20 >> translated: >>=20 >> =20 >>=20 >> =E2=80=9Cevil troubles=E2=80=9D >>=20 >> =E2=80=9Cwicked strifes=E2=80=9D >>=20 >> =E2=80=9Chateful jealousies=E2=80=9D >>=20 >> =E2=80=9Cugly quarrels=E2=80=9D > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 20:42:22 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Diane DiPrima Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work In-Reply-To: <44BECF25.7070000@adelphia.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi George, I'm guessing that since the poem is Empedoklean Reveries, or some such title, that the phrase may well be in Empedocles. However, have not had a chance to go digging for my bilingual pre-Socratics down in the garage bookshelves Kirk & Raven was it? & one other. If you have same, you may well find the very phrase. Glad you've "got" Sanskrit. I took a year of it in the 70s, but haven't kept it up at all. Best, Diane di P. ddiprima@earhtlink.net > From: george thompson > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 20:32:37 -0400 > To: > Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work > > Hello Diane, > > Yes, kakai erides is nominative plural. It certainly does sound like > something from Hesiod, as well as something from Duncan. I have browsed > through my Loeb Hesiod, but I haven't found the relevant passage yet. > > In any case, welcome to the Poetics list from an old friend who spent some > time with you in your lovely workshops during the 70's. Now I am a this > list's solitary Sanskritist, among other things. > > George Thompson > > [who went from Duncan to the Vedas] > ......................................... > > Yeah, Tom, I was wondering about that aspirate mark over erides (is that > nominative plural, for eris?) > > Diane > > > >>> From: "Tom W. Lewis" >>> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >>> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 14:19:07 -0500 >>> To: >>> Conversation: Duncan Ground Work >>> Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work >>> =20 >>> thanks, Diane -- that makes a lot more sense. >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> I don=E2=80=99t know if this will come through in plain text, but >>> here=E2=80=99s the = >> >> > phrase > >>> spelled out in Greek: >>> =20 >>> * >>> =20 >>> =CE=BA=CE=B1=CE=BA=CE=B1=CE=B9 =CE=B5=CF=81=CE=B9=CE=B4=CE=B5=CF=82 >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> transliterated: >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> kakai erides >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> translated: >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> =E2=80=9Cevil troubles=E2=80=9D >>> =20 >>> =E2=80=9Cwicked strifes=E2=80=9D >>> =20 >>> =E2=80=9Chateful jealousies=E2=80=9D >>> =20 >>> =E2=80=9Cugly quarrels=E2=80=9D >> ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 22:07:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: clifford Subject: godblogit MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline on a lighter note, godblog it. http://godaintnutthin.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 00:25:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: philosophy question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > If you're familiar at all with the work of Brouwer on the > foundations of mathematics, or at all familiar with the ideas of > the "intuitionist" school of mathematical logic, there's an > analogy to be drawn between their work on the subject and > Wittgensteins. Yes, I'm somewhat familiar with the outline of the 'intuitionist' or 'constructivist' approach. Though there are mathematicians and logicians who still find it useful, Cantor's ideas are far more prevalent in the world of mathematics now than those of constructivism mainly because the constructivist/finitistic limitations imposed by constructivism crippled the program's ability to develop many of the more important results in various fields of mathematics where, it turns out, assuming the existence of the actually infinite is crucial; any viable philosophy of the foundations of mathematics must either be capable of justifying the important work already done or offering compelling alternative results, and 'constructivism' has apparently done neither with sufficient force to 'win the battle' but has done enough to still exist. Also, the development of the theory of computation has been immensely successful and influential not only within mathematics but in its technological consequences. Also, what I've encountered of constructivism was always plodding whereas when you study Cantor or Godel, you must be impressed with the beauty of the results established within proofs whose methods are not only breathtakingly clever and succinct but have supplied succeeding generations with methods that continue to be useful. > I'll confess that set theoretic proofs and second > order logic tends to make my head swim so it's hard for me to > really get a handle on a lot that such mathematicians talk about. > That having been said, I do know that Wittgenstein makes some > very lucid and pointed criticism's about Cantor's diagonal proof > in the second appendix to the notebooks published collectively as > "Remarks on the Foundations of Mathematics." The criticisms are > directed not at the proof itself but rather at the logicism it > inspired and at some of the claims about transfinite numbers and > set theory that it purports to show. For Wittgenstein, extensions > of mathematical principles > were interesting but overvalued and as grammatical statements, do > not reveal anything about the nature of the world, but rather, > only reveal things about the nature of mathematics. I wonder if Wittgenstein could have understood, at that time, the importance of Turing's results not only in mathematics but in the world via computing. The relation between the sort of inquiry Godel and Turing carried out into the foundations of mathematics and the theorizing of the computer arises out of the need of the foundations of mathematics for theoretical 'engines of logic' that can be used in problems such as the 'decision problem' where the question is whether an algorithm that does so-and-so can exist. By the way, Jason, if you haven't read Martin Davis's book 'Engines of Logic', give yourself a treat and pick it up. A really fine book. > I generally > don't care very much about the philosophy of mathematics so I > don't follow it very closely, > but since you're a Turing fan, you > might be interested to know that Turing attended one of > Wittgenstein's classes on the foundations of mathematics in the > late thirties, and the two had lively ongoing debates that were > written down verbatim but a couple of W's students who were in > the habit of taking stenographer style notes at his lectures. The > debates are published verbatim in the book entitled > Wittgenstein's Lectures on the Philosophy of Mathematics and are > a pretty good read. They will probably give you a better idea > about Wittgenstein's Philosophy of Math than I could. As to your > reference about his relevance > to mathematical logic, it's worth pointing out that Wittgenstein > invented truth tables in the Tractatus Logico Philosophicus, > which, as I'm sure you know, are so widely used at this point > that it's rare that professors point out to students that they > even needed to be invented. Truth tables are very useful. They make plodding more bearable. > As for Wittgenstein on Godel, there's a lot of critique over > Wittgenstein's supposed misunderstanding of Godel. I think such > interpretations of Wittgenstein are more likely various readers > misunderstanding of Uncle L than Uncle L's misunderstanding of > contemporary issues in mathematical logic. After all, at one > point Russell considered Wittgenstein his natural heir and the > person most likely to move forward from the Principia Mathematica > to finally solve once and for all the problems facing logicism. > That Wittgenstein abandoned such a notion as empty long before > Godel published his proofs of the Incompleteness theorems I think > goes a long way towards showing how sophisticated a mathematical > think Uncle Ludwig was. There's a paper by Hilary Putnam, who I > regard as a very nuanced and interesting reader of W, about a lot > of these issues that's worth reading: > staff.washington.edu/dalexand/ Putnam%20Readings/Notorious.pdf Yes, I saw that in my google of "Godel Wittgenstein". It's a very difficult read. > > Also, I am under the impression that no one has effectively > disproved my > > little argument that there is something God can't do. I have > tried to answer > > serious questions about it seriously, and only Amy King's > objection seems to > > me to apply logic to the matter in a convincing way. But her > rebuttal comes > > at the expense of a reduction of the universe to chaos. "God can do > > something God can't do" implies God can do the logically impossible. My > > intuition is that we are free to take either side in this > matter or to take > > all alternatives with a grain of salt. The victories of my mathematical > > heroes--Pythagoras, Archimedes, Eratosthenes, Euclid, Gauss, Newton, > > Leibnitz, Cantor, Godel, and Turing--and many others--move me to reject > > Amy's proposition; while the victories of my poet heroes move me to a > > position with some appreciation of the depth of the irrational, > the chaotic, > > the myserious, the incomprehensible, the disordered, the accidental, the > > random... > > As far as this goes there are two problems which you haven't > really addressed. > > The first is the red herring argument I brought up initially. > That is, no one seriously makes the claim that God can do > anything, so to say God can think of something that God can't do > is uncontroversial and so your argument that "if God can't think > of something God can't do, then there is something God can't do" > is empty. See theologians as far back as St. Augustine for > illustrations of what is and is not asserted about the nature of > divine power. In the above you concede the truth of the conclusion that there is something God can't do, describe the conclusion as "uncontroversial", and use that as a basis to assert that the argument that leads to the conclusion is "empty". > The second is much more difficult, and is entailed by the fact > that "God" is not a sensibly predicable subject because there are > no public grounds on which to determine whether predicates about > God are true or false. That is to say, I can say "God looked like > an enormous yellow halibut smoking a cigar when he created the > world, but he started looking more like Cary Grant by the time he > got around to creating the animals." and that has the same > grammatical status as "God can think of something that God can't > do." which is that both sentences are meaningless because they > predicate to a subject which in symbolic logic might be expressed > as VxGx, where A is god that should you substitute A for x, the > truth or falsity of the statement becomes indeterminate. X can think of something X can't do. Trivial cases: 1. X can't think. In this case, there is something X can't do (e.g. think) so the conclusion (There is something X can't do) is true. 2. X can't 'do'. Again, there is something X can't do (e.g. do anything) and so the conclusion (There is something X can't do) is true. The non-trivial case is where X can think and X can 'do'. In this case, if "X can think of something X can't do" is true, the conclusion obviously follows, and if "X can think of something X can't do" is false, then it's true that "X can't think of something X can't do", in which case, once again, there is something X can't do. So in all cases, regardless of the nature of X, the conclusion that "There is something X can't do" follows--regardless of whether there are "public grounds on which to determine whether predicates about God are true or false." ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 08:08:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Waber Subject: Characters, by Karri Kokko Comments: To: announce@logolalia.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii As we wave goodbye to the z of Nico Vassilakis's Negative Alphabet Alphabet, it's time to wave hello to the a of Karri Kokko's Characters. New series beginning today at: http://www.logolalia.com/abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz/ Whee! Dan ---- Also at logolalia.com: http://www.logolalia.com/40x365/ (currently 60 others playing along, and a public radio interview due to air today) http://www.logolalia.com/alteredbooks/ (recent work by Meghan Scott, John M. Bennett, Mike Magazinnik, Michelle Taransky, Nico Vassilakis, Sheila E. Murphy, and Holly Crawford--total pages done is nearing 500) http://www.logolalia.com/minimalistconcretepoetry/ (most recently: 13 pieces by mIEKAL aND and 15 pieces by Martha Deed) and more. Really. I know a lot of people hype things by saying "and more!" and there really isn't more, but at logolalia.com, there really is more. Mail art, Cantoos, Beasties, Untranslatable, Kite Tail Press, and even more. Really. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 09:25:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Malachi Thompson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable E-Mail This =20 =20 =20 =20 ARTS / MUSIC | July 20, 2006=20 Malachi Thompson, Trumpeter, 56, Dies=20 By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS=20 Malachi Thompson was a trumpeter and a leading figure in = Chicago's experimental jazz scene.=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 06:45:33 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: justin sirois Subject: interview with Scott Pierce/Effing Press & Tony Tost MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit at www. narrowhouserecordings .com in the double.wide: . . . . . . . http://www.narrowhouserecordings.com/ a record label primarily interested in contemporary writing, poetics and the political __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 10:02:41 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Diane, I think you're right about the phrase coming from Empedocles, not Hesiod -- the Perseus site is working today, and I was able to search for instances of "Eris" in the Hesiodic corpus:=20 http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?lookup=3De%29%2Fris&advanced=3D1= &do c=3DPerseus:text:1999.01.0127&doc=3DPerseus:text:1999.01.0129&doc=3DPerse= us:te xt:1999.01.0131&lang=3Dgreek&group=3Dbilevel (they don't have the Empedocles text up there, so we have to rely on print) is there a study of classical language use (incl. Sanskrit, I guess) in Modern & later 20th-c. poetry? would be interesting to see something like that... I know of a set of foreign language concordances for Finnegans Wake, but that's about it. how much Sanskrit/Vedic content is there in Duncan, by the way? how does he use it? tl -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Diane DiPrima Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 22:42 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work Hi George, I'm guessing that since the poem is Empedoklean Reveries, or some such title, that the phrase may well be in Empedocles. However, have not had a chance to go digging for my bilingual pre-Socratics down in the garage bookshelves Kirk & Raven was it? & one other. If you have same, you may well find the very phrase. Glad you've "got" Sanskrit. I took a year of it in the 70s, but haven't kept it up at all.=20 Best, Diane di P. ddiprima@earhtlink.net > From: george thompson > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 20:32:37 -0400 > To: > Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work >=20 > Hello Diane, >=20 > Yes, kakai erides is nominative plural. It certainly does sound like > something from Hesiod, as well as something from Duncan. I have browsed > through my Loeb Hesiod, but I haven't found the relevant passage yet. >=20 > In any case, welcome to the Poetics list from an old friend who spent some > time with you in your lovely workshops during the 70's. Now I am a this > list's solitary Sanskritist, among other things. >=20 > George Thompson >=20 > [who went from Duncan to the Vedas] > ......................................... >=20 > Yeah, Tom, I was wondering about that aspirate mark over erides (is that > nominative plural, for eris?) >=20 > Diane >=20 >=20 >=20 >>> From: "Tom W. Lewis" >>> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >>> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 14:19:07 -0500 >>> To: >>> Conversation: Duncan Ground Work >>> Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work >>> =3D20 >>> thanks, Diane -- that makes a lot more sense. >>> =3D20 >>> =3D20 >>> =3D20 >>> I don=3DE2=3D80=3D99t know if this will come through in plain text, = but >>> here=3DE2=3D80=3D99s the =3D >> =20 >>=20 > phrase >=20 >>> spelled out in Greek: >>> =3D20 >>> * >>> =3D20 >>> =3DCE=3DBA=3DCE=3DB1=3DCE=3DBA=3DCE=3DB1=3DCE=3DB9 = =3DCE=3DB5=3DCF=3D81=3DCE=3DB9=3DCE=3DB4=3DCE=3DB5=3DCF=3D82 >>> =3D20 >>> =3D20 >>> =3D20 >>> transliterated: >>> =3D20 >>> =3D20 >>> =3D20 >>> kakai erides >>> =3D20 >>> =3D20 >>> =3D20 >>> translated: >>> =3D20 >>> =3D20 >>> =3D20 >>> =3DE2=3D80=3D9Cevil troubles=3DE2=3D80=3D9D >>> =3D20 >>> =3DE2=3D80=3D9Cwicked strifes=3DE2=3D80=3D9D >>> =3D20 >>> =3DE2=3D80=3D9Chateful jealousies=3DE2=3D80=3D9D >>> =3D20 >>> =3DE2=3D80=3D9Cugly quarrels=3DE2=3D80=3D9D >>=20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 01:00:24 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: philosophy question - i am my lord i am Comments: To: wryting-l@listserv.utoronto.ca MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit true vern hey i hope you enjoyed the book anyway today the bastard (gd) almost made me shit in my pants i had to walk a mile to find a toilet past all sorts of vermin both human and not and the trash (mostly human) that such vermin leave behind then i scratched my foot on barbed wire then found a big dead turtle and actually intoned "the lord giveth - the lord taketh away" & crossed myself pretty weird behavior for an agnostic jew who always curses gd out whenever things go wrong which is pretty often but never thanks "HIM" when things go right since i don't really know if gd exists cause the signs i've been shown all point to the contrary or are too fked up or just not good enough or pass in a fleeting instance any way my wife says gd is a dimwit oh what else ah now i've forgotten well the other day at this picnic at lake sebago (felt like i was in a foreign country) this gorgeous statuesque dancer i know had the words "i am my lord i am" tatooed across her belly right above her belly button i told her the infinite possibilities & combinations that "sentence" held she said that must be because you are a poet tho she herself didn't seem to grasp what the words meant what do the words mean? &does any one out there know where they come from? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 11:03:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William Allegrezza Subject: Series A Reminder--6:30 tonight Comments: To: wallegre@iun.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Series A's first poetry reading is tonight at 6:30 at the Hyde Park Art Center (5020 S. Cornell Avenue). The readers are Kerri Sonnenberg and Chris Glomski. I hope you can make it. Best, Bill Allegrezza ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 10:10:48 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Diane DiPrima Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work In-Reply-To: <54AA9B41BC35F34EAD02E660901D8A5A07ACB2EE@TLRUSMNEAGMBX10.ERF.THOMSON.COM> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi Tom, I'm not aware of any Sanskrit references in Duncan--don't believe that was his cup of tea. He eschewed the "mystical" per se, stuck to the Greek and such like. On the other hand, Charles Olson was deeply interested in Sanskrit works toward the end of his life: not Vedas, but Hindu Tantra: John Woodruffe's (Arthur Avalon) "Hymns to the Goddess", etc. --- But that's another story. Best, Diane > From: "Tom W. Lewis" > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 10:02:41 -0500 > To: > Conversation: Duncan Ground Work > Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work > > Diane, I think you're right about the phrase coming from Empedocles, not > Hesiod -- the Perseus site is working today, and I was able to search > for instances of "Eris" in the Hesiodic corpus: > > http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?lookup=e%29%2Fris&advanced=1&do > c=Perseus:text:1999.01.0127&doc=Perseus:text:1999.01.0129&doc=Perseus:te > xt:1999.01.0131&lang=greek&group=bilevel > > (they don't have the Empedocles text up there, so we have to rely on > print) > > is there a study of classical language use (incl. Sanskrit, I guess) in > Modern & later 20th-c. poetry? would be interesting to see something > like that... I know of a set of foreign language concordances for > Finnegans Wake, but that's about it. > > how much Sanskrit/Vedic content is there in Duncan, by the way? how does > he use it? > > tl > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] > On Behalf Of Diane DiPrima > Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 22:42 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work > > Hi George, > > I'm guessing that since the poem is Empedoklean Reveries, or some such > title, that the phrase may well be in Empedocles. However, have not had > a > chance to go digging for my bilingual pre-Socratics down in the garage > bookshelves Kirk & Raven was it? & one other. If you have same, you may > well > find the very phrase. > > Glad you've "got" Sanskrit. I took a year of it in the 70s, but haven't > kept > it up at all. > > Best, Diane di P. > > ddiprima@earhtlink.net > > > >> From: george thompson >> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 20:32:37 -0400 >> To: >> Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work >> >> Hello Diane, >> >> Yes, kakai erides is nominative plural. It certainly does sound like >> something from Hesiod, as well as something from Duncan. I have > browsed >> through my Loeb Hesiod, but I haven't found the relevant passage yet. >> >> In any case, welcome to the Poetics list from an old friend who spent > some >> time with you in your lovely workshops during the 70's. Now I am a > this >> list's solitary Sanskritist, among other things. >> >> George Thompson >> >> [who went from Duncan to the Vedas] >> ......................................... >> >> Yeah, Tom, I was wondering about that aspirate mark over erides (is > that >> nominative plural, for eris?) >> >> Diane >> >> >> >>>> From: "Tom W. Lewis" >>>> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >>>> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 14:19:07 -0500 >>>> To: >>>> Conversation: Duncan Ground Work >>>> Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work >>>> =20 >>>> thanks, Diane -- that makes a lot more sense. >>>> =20 >>>> =20 >>>> =20 >>>> I don=E2=80=99t know if this will come through in plain text, but >>>> here=E2=80=99s the = >>> >>> >> phrase >> >>>> spelled out in Greek: >>>> =20 >>>> * >>>> =20 >>>> =CE=BA=CE=B1=CE=BA=CE=B1=CE=B9 =CE=B5=CF=81=CE=B9=CE=B4=CE=B5=CF=82 >>>> =20 >>>> =20 >>>> =20 >>>> transliterated: >>>> =20 >>>> =20 >>>> =20 >>>> kakai erides >>>> =20 >>>> =20 >>>> =20 >>>> translated: >>>> =20 >>>> =20 >>>> =20 >>>> =E2=80=9Cevil troubles=E2=80=9D >>>> =20 >>>> =E2=80=9Cwicked strifes=E2=80=9D >>>> =20 >>>> =E2=80=9Chateful jealousies=E2=80=9D >>>> =20 >>>> =E2=80=9Cugly quarrels=E2=80=9D >>> ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 10:27:14 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work In-Reply-To: <54AA9B41BC35F34EAD02E660901D8A5A07ACB2EE@TLRUSMNEAGMBX10.ERF.THOMSON.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 20-Jul-06, at 8:02 AM, Tom W. Lewis wrote: > Diane, I think you're right about the phrase coming from Empedocles, > not > Hesiod -- I don't know. I once heard RD say "Let me not to the marriage of true minds admit Empedocles." George H. Bowering Fears a symmetrical oyster. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 13:42:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Boog City 35 Available Today Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Please forward --------------- Boog City 35 Available featuring: ***Our Politics section, now edited by Christina Strong*** "When I told people in Massachusetts I was moving to Red Hook most of them said only, 'Where's that?' I was glad they didn't know and I wasn't about t= o lead them to a simple Google search, which is fine, because I will be price= d out of the neighborhood soon anyway." --from Red Hook or By Crook: Stepping into Another Up-and-Coming Neighborhood by Strong ***Our Printed Matter section, edited by Mark Lamoureux*** "Identity Crisis has to be the first work that draws from Ron Silliman's blog as source text, namely his prodigious role as poet. I'm curious to see how long it will be before this anonymous author is uncovered and what the take will be on the anonymous aspect of this surely flarf-inspired composition." --from Publish Poetry or Perish: Dusie's DIY Chapbook Exchang= e Project by Susana Gardner ***Our Music section, edited by Jon Berger*** "Revell is like a cleverer Jackson Browne, a harder-edged Grant Lee Phillips, but he doesn't like to label his music. 'Someone once asked me about a song, "Is this Christian Rock?"' And I said, 'No, more like Catholi= c Blues.'" --Atmospheric and Aching: Grey Revell's Back After Three Years by Berger "Richard McGraw's music is an excellent example of confessional acoustic rock done well. The requisite Nick Drake, Elliott Smith, and Belle and Sebastian influences are there, along with John Lennon, Leonard Cohen, and Tom Waits." --Song and Void's Beautiful; Multi-Instrumentalist Abesamis by Eric Rosenfield ***Art editor Brenda Iijima brings us work from DUMBO's Sarah Trigg*** ***Our Poetry section, edited by Laura Elrick and Rodrigo Toscano*** --Chelsea's Dan Machlin with an untitled piece Language on the wall, you say. Porridge in this bowl to eat. Vague markings on a column. --Sunnyside, Queens' Paolo Javier with 92 derelict heroic weird acumen tippers annul all timid utterance autumnal erratio end-all being grist for the mill Korean scientist calumny enter guest hostile please be in-laws who must sell corpse & skull quell askant canzones annul Agonistes dare take on Mga Alimasag --Williamsburg, Brooklyn's Kristen Gallagher with from Gun Primer A Religious Education school lives on=20 in the hand from above blocked out can take you down at any minute *And photos from Mark Lamoureux and Christina Strong.* ----- And thanks to our copy editor, Joe Bates. ----- Please patronize our advertisers: Bowery Poetry Club * http://www.bowerypoetry.com fait accompli * http://www.nickpiombino.blogspot.com/ SongCrew Records * http://cdbaby.com/cd/shmailo Study Abroad on the Bowery * http://www.boweryartsandscience.org ----- Advertising or donation inquiries can be directed to editor@boogcity.com or by calling 212-842-BOOG (2664) ----- 2,000 copies of Boog City are distributed among, and available for free at, the following locations: EAST VILLAGE Acme Underground =20 Alt.coffee =20 Angelika Film Center and Caf=E9 Anthology Film Archives Bluestockings =20 Bowery Poetry Club=20 Caf=E9 Pick Me Up =20 CB's 313 Gallery =20 CBGB's=20 Continental =20 Lakeside Lounge =20 Life Caf=E9 =20 Living Room =20 Mission Caf=E9 =20 Nuyorican Poets Caf=E9 Pianos =20 The Pink Pony =20 St. Mark's Books =20 St. Mark's Church =20 Shakespeare & Co. =20 Sidewalk Caf=E9 =20 Sunshine Theater =20 Tonic =20 Trash and Vaudeville =20 OTHER PARTS OF MANHATTAN Hotel Chelsea Poets House WILLIAMSBURG Bliss Caf=E9 Earwax =20 Galapagos =20 Northsix =20 Sideshow Gallery =20 Soundfix/Fix Cafe=20 Supercore Caf=E9 *and now available in* GREENPOINT Greenpoint Coffee House Lulu's=20 Photoplay Thai Cafe =20 The Pencil Factory -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 11:43:38 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: philosophy question In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Jim, > I wonder if Wittgenstein could have understood, at that time, the importance > of Turing's results not only in mathematics but in the world via computing. > The relation between the sort of inquiry Godel and Turing carried out into > the foundations of mathematics and the theorizing of the computer arises out > of the need of the foundations of mathematics for theoretical 'engines of > logic' that can be used in problems such as the 'decision problem' where the > question is whether an algorithm that does so-and-so can exist. This is pure speculation because like I said, phil of math isn't something I care enough about to really be up on, but my guess is that wittgenstein would say that the application of logic engines is rather trivial. he felt that mathematics could be extended in whatever way they needed to be in order to apply them to whatever someone needed to do. What he objected to were not the physical application, or even the truth of various extensions of the language of mathematics, except when the semantics of proofs like the incompleteness theorem or the existence of transfinite numbers were argued to have metaphysical implications, because once mathematicians start talking about metaphysics, they're no longer in the realm of mathematics, and are beyond the point where they have grounds to speak. > By the way, Jason, if you haven't read Martin Davis's book 'Engines of > Logic', give yourself a treat and pick it up. A really fine book. Thanks for the rec, I'll check it out. >> The first is the red herring argument I brought up initially. >> That is, no one seriously makes the claim that God can do >> anything, so to say God can think of something that God can't do >> is uncontroversial and so your argument that "if God can't think >> of something God can't do, then there is something God can't do" >> is empty. See theologians as far back as St. Augustine for >> illustrations of what is and is not asserted about the nature of >> divine power. > > In the above you concede the truth of the conclusion that there is something > God can't do, describe the conclusion as "uncontroversial", and use that as > a basis to assert that the argument that leads to the conclusion is "empty". Right, because it defuses one of your premises that's necessary to get the paradox to happen, namely, that God can do anything. Without that proposition all you're saying is God can think of something God can't do, therefore there is something god can't do. Which is no argument at all. it's just If P then P and doesnt' show anything about anything. >> The second is much more difficult, and is entailed by the fact >> that "God" is not a sensibly predicable subject because there are >> no public grounds on which to determine whether predicates about >> God are true or false. That is to say, I can say "God looked like >> an enormous yellow halibut smoking a cigar when he created the >> world, but he started looking more like Cary Grant by the time he >> got around to creating the animals." and that has the same >> grammatical status as "God can think of something that God can't >> do." which is that both sentences are meaningless because they >> predicate to a subject which in symbolic logic might be expressed >> as VxGx, where A is god that should you substitute A for x, the >> truth or falsity of the statement becomes indeterminate. > > X can think of something X can't do. > > Trivial cases: > 1. X can't think. In this case, there is something X can't do (e.g. think) > so the conclusion (There is something X can't do) is true. > 2. X can't 'do'. Again, there is something X can't do (e.g. do anything) and > so the conclusion (There is something X can't do) is true. > > The non-trivial case is where X can think and X can 'do'. In this case, if > "X can think of something X can't do" is true, the conclusion obviously > follows, and if "X can think of something X can't do" is false, then it's > true that "X can't think of something X can't do", in which case, once > again, there is something X can't do. > > So in all cases, regardless of the nature of X, the conclusion that "There > is something X can't do" follows--regardless of whether there are "public > grounds on which to determine whether predicates about God are true or > false." > Sure, if you are dealing with a sensible subject that is predicable. What i'm saying is you can't substitute the word God for the variable X given the general sorts of sentences in which the word God is used. I might even object to the idea that God is a name in the same way that my name is jason, again because there are no publicly available criteria for determining if whatever thing I call God is really the same thing you call God, hence, it's not a real proper name. It's all well and good to, in isolation from the pragmatics of the word, say that what the word God means is some definition D, but no such definition is going to capture the meaning of the word. "God" is a paradigm case where meaning is use, and to extract the word from it's ordinary usages, as a character in the story of the bible, as the addressee of prayer, as an invocation of fortune, etc, is to start in with philosopher's nonsense and to not say anything meaningful. Because it's not a subject that is predicable int the same way that "my chair" "Jason Quackenbush" or even "Jesus of Nazareth" is. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 14:14:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: F Wright and F Howe Comments: To: Lucifer Poetics Group , ILSTUCREATIVEWRITING-L@listserv.ilstu.edu, ImitaPo Memebers , "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" , BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, POETRYETC@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, WOM-PO@LISTS.USM.MAINE.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tonight Franz Wright and Fanny Howe will be on Open Source Radio, a nationally syndicated NPR radio show (which featured an entry from my blog on Bloomsday). One of the people who produces the show has alerted me to it -- and is hoping that poets and poetry-files respond with commentary on their site: http://www.radioopensource.org/the-poetry-of-franz-wright-and-fannie-howe/. Gabriel http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 15:10:43 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: philosophy question Comments: cc: Kass Fleisher In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" i don't recall if anyone has cited this page: http://www.stats.uwaterloo.ca/~cgsmall/ontology.html but worth a look in light of this matter of godel vis-a-vis the almighty... it discusses godel's mysticism (described as a variety of neo-platonism)... i think it would be correct to say that godel generally uses logic against itself, as it were---to prove that logic is not sufficient to describing (e.g.) numbers... in which regard, perhaps, you see a corresponding (?) drift from the wittgenstein of the ~tractatus~ to the later witt of ~phil. invest.~... at any rate, what's always interesting to me about these discussions is how we have to use language to get at what mathematicians (like godel) have ultimately to prove in terms of mathematical formulations... it's one thing to understand the logic of godel's incompleteness theorem, for instance, in terms of language statements... it's entirely another to grasp the mechanics of the polynomial equation godel devised so that, for instance, one can actually *know* a specific mathematical truth that godel's universal truth machine (call it what you will) could not know... i always feel, that is, that i come up shy b/c i have to get at such things via language... for godel, this was not a point easily dismissed, b/c he viewed numbers, at least as i understand him, to possess a quality not exhausted by logico-philosophical analysis... i would imagine that he and witt would have disagreed here at least, to some extent... somebody please correct me if i'm wrong... also: there's so much here that seems to have already enjoyed its cultural-historical moment (via books by people like hofstadter) that i wonder whether the exchange signals a desire to return to said moment -- of course i continue to be fascinated myself by such stuff, game theory, etc., but my educational background was originally in mathematics (so, ahem, i have a good idea of how little i know) -- and whether its more masculine contours (i didn't say male, but i could have, i suppose) are a measure also of some testicular import (mea culpa)... not that this stuff dates, exactly, but our enthusiasm for it might suggest some corresponding cultural marker, no?... sorry, but figured i should float the gender question anyway... i'm feeling very male - or is it masculine? - right now... and that's ok too, i suppose... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 16:29:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: Re: F Wright and F Howe Comments: cc: Lucifer Poetics Group , ILSTUCREATIVEWRITING-L@listserv.ilstu.edu, ImitaPo Memebers , "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" , BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, POETRYETC@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, WOM-PO@LISTS.USM.MAINE.EDU In-Reply-To: <44BFD631.9080408@ilstu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The times and stations are listed here: http://www.radioopensource.org/be-a-source/hear-on-the-radio/ (thanks to Justin Marks for querying about the time) g Gabriel Gudding wrote: > Tonight Franz Wright and Fanny Howe will be on Open Source Radio, a > nationally syndicated NPR radio show (which featured an entry from my > blog on Bloomsday). > > One of the people who produces the show has alerted me to it -- and is > hoping that poets and poetry-files respond with commentary on their site: > > http://www.radioopensource.org/the-poetry-of-franz-wright-and-fannie-howe/. > > Gabriel > > http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 16:41:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Fwd: get sucked into Stone Age Type Comments: To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" , ubuweb@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Begin forwarded message: > From: "Audacia Dangereyes" > Date: July 20, 2006 4:38:59 PM CDT > To: dtv@mwt.net > Subject: get sucked into Stone Age Type > > Download our very first book > > from Stone Age Type=97 > > mIEKAL aND's > > atlanTopia > > about the book: > > "The 4,918 words of atlanTopia were generated from the complete and =20= > combined vocabulary of "Utopia" by Thomas More (1616) and "The New =20 > Atlantis" by Sir Francis Bacon (1623). This mashup is an =20 > unexperiment in Utopian non-creativity lovingly constructed during =20 > a 3 month vacation from creativity May - July 2006." > > http://stoneagetype.tk/ > > > > > love from the island, > > Audacia ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 19:15:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Minky Starshine Subject: CFP--Writing by Degrees 2006: The 9th Annual National Graduate Creative Writing Conference (Deadline Extended) In-Reply-To: <2FFC42DD-D23B-47A6-8197-7B8BC4E3F815@mwt.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (with revised submission deadline) Writing by Degrees 2006: The 9th Annual National Graduate Creative Writing Conference Binghamton, New York-Binghamton University, SUNY Keynote Speakers, Steve Almond (fiction), Timothy Liu (poetry), Suzanne Paola Antonetta (creative non-fiction) Conference Date: October 19-21, 2006 Submmission Deadline: August 20, 2006 Writing by Degrees is seeking creative and academic submissions demonstrating or contemplating the craft of writing. All applicants must be currently enrolled as graduate students in order to be eligible. Submissions may fall into one of the below categories. Creative Submissions Poetry submissions should be 10 pages. Creative prose, fiction, or creative non-fiction, should be of a length to be read within a 20-minute period (roughly 10-12 pages); please submit entire piece to be read. There are no restrictions on subject matter or form-send us your highest quality work. Translations are also welcome.. Note: Authors of creative submissions accepted by Writing by Degrees will be invited to submit the works to a special edition of the journal Harpur Palate; although acceptance for publication is not guaranteed. Academic Submissions Please submit a 1- or 2-page abstract. Possible Academic Submission Topics: The craft and/or practice of writing Creative Writing pedagogy Creative Writing and composition Experimentation in poetry or fiction Contact Hardcopy submissions may be sent to: Writing by Degrees Directors: Deborah Poe, Cannon Roberts, Holly Wendt Department of English Binghamton University PO Box 6000 Binghamton, NY 13902-6000 Hardcopy submissions will only be returned upon request, and if accompanied by a self-addressed envelope with sufficient postage. Writing by Degrees no longer acccepts email submissions. Please address questions to wbdegree@binghamton.edu. You can also review our Web site: http://writingbydegrees.binghamton.edu/home.html (further updates on the Web site can be expected throughout the summer). Note: Upon acceptance of your submission, there will be a $50 conference fee. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 20:45:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: CFP--Writing by Degrees 2006: The 9th Annual National Graduate Creative Writing Conference (Deadline Extended) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hey minky how are ya ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 03:45:36 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: philosophy question In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Jason said: > ...but my guess is > that wittgenstein would say that the application of logic engines > is rather trivial. "Trivial" in what sense? I doubt you mean to say that the invention of the computer was trivial. Also, concerning what is trivial and what isn't, 'everyone knows' that conclusions drawn from natural language propositions are suspect. Some of Godel's work consists of formalizing the proposition 'This proposition cannot be proved' into a proposition that is well-formed in set theory; and he proceeds to demonstrate that it is an 'undecidable' proposition. I think that before he did this, the Wittgenstein influence may have been very strong and dissuasive concerning the possibility that this could be done at all. Wittgenstein's influence seems to have largely cautionary. Whereas Godel's work has time and again been characterized as the most important work in mathematical logic in the twentieth century. We get our inspirations and big ideas not by pushing symbols so much as in natural language and in non-verbal experience. We have to be able to trust that, or at least trust that we can actually make sense of it sometimes, make poetry of it, make beautiful Godelian theorems of it, discover the truth, etc. Godel's work is inspirational in that regard, I think. Recall that Cantor's work was spat upon as trivial and contradictory for quite a while because 'everybody knew' that assuming the existence of the actually infinite leads to contradictions. The Wittgensteinian version of such taboo urges us to shut up about subjects he thinks can't be discussed sensibly. But I think Cantor and Godel's work shows us it's often important to try to press on in the face of criticism. > he felt that mathematics could be extended in > whatever way they needed to be in order to apply them to whatever > someone needed to do. What he objected to were not the physical > application, or even the truth of various extensions of the > language of mathematics, except when the semantics of proofs like > the incompleteness theorem or the existence of transfinite > numbers were argued to have metaphysical implications, because > once mathematicians start talking about metaphysics, they're no > longer in the realm of mathematics, and are beyond the point > where they have grounds to speak. My feeling is that if logicians feel they can argue effectively and truthfully concerning matters metaphysical, then they should do so. ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 09:07:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lisa Jarnot Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 19 Jul 2006 to 20 Jul 2006 (#2006-202) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Howdy List, re: Hesiod and Duncan, that is actually Passages 22: You Muses. Sorry for the initial mis-lead re: Empedoklean Reveries. re: Empedoklean Reveries-- it was influenced by a good friend of RD's named Norman Austin, a classics scholar who wrote a book called Archery at the Dark of the Moon. Best, Lisa Jarnot ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 09:38:24 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: sylvester pollet Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Tom, your "that's about it" misses Terrell's " Companion to The Cantos of Ezra Pound," for one. best, Sylvester From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work Diane, I think you're right about the phrase coming from Empedocles, not Hesiod -- the Perseus site is working today, and I was able to search for instances of "Eris" in the Hesiodic corpus:=20 http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?lookup=3De%29%2Fris&advanced=3D1= &do c=3DPerseus:text:1999.01.0127&doc=3DPerseus:text:1999.01.0129&doc=3DPerse= us:te xt:1999.01.0131&lang=3Dgreek&group=3Dbilevel (they don't have the Empedocles text up there, so we have to rely on print) is there a study of classical language use (incl. Sanskrit, I guess) in Modern & later 20th-c. poetry? would be interesting to see something like that... I know of a set of foreign language concordances for Finnegans Wake, but that's about it. how much Sanskrit/Vedic content is there in Duncan, by the way? how does he use it? tl ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 09:53:54 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: Re: Duncan Digs Deeper In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "that's about it" =3D that's about all *I* know of... not that I know = much of anything, necessarily. Sylvester: thanks for the Pound commentary ref. was Duncan a "mystic"? I'm reading a book by Devin Johnston: Precipitations: Contemporary American Poetry as Occult Practice (Wesleyan U., 2002)... analyzes the influence of occultism on H.D., James Merrill and Duncan...=20 I know Duncan was influenced by alternative spiritual traditions early on (I mean, he started life as a Bakersfield theosophist, which should be an oxymoron)... was he critical of these matters as he developed, or did he always believe in the big cosmic What accessible through ritual and digging deeper/reaching higher? (that last line would be close to my own definition of mysticism: a science of the Secrets) have a nice weekend, folks --=20 tl -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of sylvester pollet Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 8:38 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work Tom, your "that's about it" misses Terrell's " Companion to The=20 Cantos of Ezra Pound," for one. best, Sylvester From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work Diane, I think you're right about the phrase coming from Empedocles, not Hesiod -- the Perseus site is working today, and I was able to search for instances of "Eris" in the Hesiodic corpus:=3D20 http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?lookup=3D3De%29%2Fris&advanced=3D= 3D 1=3D &do c=3D3DPerseus:text:1999.01.0127&doc=3D3DPerseus:text:1999.01.0129&doc=3D3= DPers e=3D us:te xt:1999.01.0131&lang=3D3Dgreek&group=3D3Dbilevel (they don't have the Empedocles text up there, so we have to rely on print) is there a study of classical language use (incl. Sanskrit, I guess) in Modern & later 20th-c. poetry? would be interesting to see something like that... I know of a set of foreign language concordances for Finnegans Wake, but that's about it. how much Sanskrit/Vedic content is there in Duncan, by the way? how does he use it? tl ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 10:28:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Benjamin Basan Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed The Iowa Review Web - July 2006: Place and Space in New Media Writing Edited by Scott Rettberg 7.20.2006 A journal of New Media and experimental writing and art, The Iowa =20 Review Web is published at the University of Iowa with support from =20 the Graduate College, The Project on the Rhetoric of Inquiry, The =20 Department of English, and the School of Journalism and Mass =20 Communication at the University of Minnesota. www.uiowa.edu/~iareview/mainpages/tirwebhome.htm ____________________________ ____________________________ Place and Space in New Media Writing Edited by Scott Rettberg Writing: Editor's Introduction: Reconfiguring Place and Space in New Media =20 Writing Scott Rettberg * Workspace is Mediaspace is Cityscape: An Interview with Nick Montfort =20= on Book and Volume Jeremy Douglass * Written on the Body: An Interview with Shelley Jackson Scott Rettberg * Behind Fa=E7ade: An Interview with Andrew Stern and Michael Mateas Brenda Bakker Harger * Avant-Gaming: An Interview with Jane McGonigal Scott Rettberg Gallery: Book and Volume Nick Montfort Fa=E7ade Michael Mateas & Andrew Stern ____________________________ Next Issue: =94Reading Spaces=94 Guest edited by: Rita Raley Featuring work from: Aya Karpinska David Knoebel Charles Baldwin William Gillespie John Caley ____________________________ Future Issues: Keep an eye out for a number of guest edited issues =20 from Jon Winet, Stuart Moulthrop, Stephanie Strickland & Marjorie C. =20 Luesebrink, and Talan Memmott www.uiowa.edu/~iareview/mainpages/tirwebhome.htm ____________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 08:36:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nico Vassilakis Subject: MORT: a solo play about Morton Feldman Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MORT a solo play about Morton Feldman created by Kip Fagan and Nico Vassilakis directed by Kip Fagan performed by Nico Vassilakis music composed and performed by Sam Hillmer video design by Paul Willis stage managed by Debbie Friedman August 3-4 (Thursday & Friday), 8:30 p.m. HERE Arts Center's American Living Room Festival at 3LD Arts & Technology Center 80 Greenwich Street (at Rector) $15 to buy tickets & show info https://www.smarttix.com/show.aspx?showCode=MOR12 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 09:39:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: philosophy question In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Jim, i'm sorry, but you're missing my point here. Wittgenstein's arguments aren't cautionary tales but elucidations of impossibilities. He's not saying just that one shouldn't talk, or be careful about talking about certain things, he' showing that there are whole domains wherein it is impossible to say anything meaningful, the metaphysics of mathematics being one of those domains. Moreover, he takes aim specifically at the idea that what logicians and mathematicians do is make claims about the world. rather, logicians and mathematicians extend the grammar of language, that's it, and as such their work is trivial and has no metaphysical import or consequences. I think Uncle would have liked digital computers, but the idea of a machine carrying out an algorithm based on logical conditions, which is what computers are, isn't necessarily preceded by the metaphysical conclusions that formalists like turing or realists like godel. In other words, Wittgenstein is a very complicated and deep thinker and his thought has very real consequences not for mathematics, but about the limits of what mathematics can say, and i think you'd really quite enjoy a lot of what he has to say on the subject. I'd start with the Tractatus and then read the Philosophical Investigations. Both books are highly rewarding. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 12:57:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit BIG BRIDGE WILL SHUT DOWN FROM JULY 20, 2006 THROUGH AUGUST 20, 2006 TO PROTEST ALL WARS AND TO DEMONSTRATE OUR SADNESS AND HORROR AT THE TRAGIC LOSS OF HUMAN LIFE IN THE MIDDLE EAST http://www.bigbridge.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 12:03:22 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST In-Reply-To: <20060721165719.WYNF828.ibm66aec.bellsouth.net@vernon> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" this is v powerful when i visit the website... perhaps others will join in? At 12:57 PM -0400 7/21/06, Vernon Frazer wrote: >BIG BRIDGE WILL SHUT DOWN > > >FROM JULY 20, 2006 THROUGH AUGUST 20, 2006 > > >TO PROTEST ALL WARS > > >AND TO DEMONSTRATE OUR SADNESS AND HORROR > > >AT THE TRAGIC LOSS OF HUMAN LIFE > > >IN THE MIDDLE EAST > > > > > >http://www.bigbridge.org > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 13:08:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST In-Reply-To: <20060721165719.WYNF828.ibm66aec.bellsouth.net@vernon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ok, I've sent the message to the List & to WRYTING-L. I'M WAITING FOR Jonathan to email me so that I can do mine without losing my links & having to redo the page. Love, V. -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Vernon Frazer Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 12:57 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST BIG BRIDGE WILL SHUT DOWN FROM JULY 20, 2006 THROUGH AUGUST 20, 2006 TO PROTEST ALL WARS AND TO DEMONSTRATE OUR SADNESS AND HORROR AT THE TRAGIC LOSS OF HUMAN LIFE IN THE MIDDLE EAST http://www.bigbridge.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 12:10:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Quel horseshit. Now is the time to open up, not shut down. (Except, of course, for summer vacation.) Hal "If you have liver disease, tell your doctor." --TV drug commercial Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@gmail.com halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Jul 21, 2006, at 12:03 PM, Maria Damon wrote: > this is v powerful when i visit the website... > perhaps others will join in? > > At 12:57 PM -0400 7/21/06, Vernon Frazer wrote: >> BIG BRIDGE WILL SHUT DOWN >> >> >> FROM JULY 20, 2006 THROUGH AUGUST 20, 2006 >> >> >> TO PROTEST ALL WARS >> >> >> AND TO DEMONSTRATE OUR SADNESS AND HORROR >> >> >> AT THE TRAGIC LOSS OF HUMAN LIFE >> >> >> IN THE MIDDLE EAST >> >> >> >> >> >> http://www.bigbridge.org >> >> ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 10:18:00 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Yes - I guess the question remains after we shut down on one side, how do we not shut up on the other. The invasion of Lebanon - the demolition bombing (yes, we have heard that word "precision" before in Iraq, etc.} is beyond the pale. The clearly calculated destruction - in planning for the last year - of a twenty mile swath of space of human communities with the subtext provision that there are no (i.e. Arab) innocent inhabitants. All with USA complicity - now Bush implicitly saying that this killer wipe out will bring peace to the region (as certainly he has brought peace to Iraq. How to move beyond being appalled? The more this goes on, the more likelihood, I assume, of rockets into Tel Aviv. And then and then and then. Yikes and then some, Stephen Vincent > this is v powerful when i visit the website... > perhaps others will join in? > > At 12:57 PM -0400 7/21/06, Vernon Frazer wrote: >> BIG BRIDGE WILL SHUT DOWN >> >> >> FROM JULY 20, 2006 THROUGH AUGUST 20, 2006 >> >> >> TO PROTEST ALL WARS >> >> >> AND TO DEMONSTRATE OUR SADNESS AND HORROR >> >> >> AT THE TRAGIC LOSS OF HUMAN LIFE >> >> >> IN THE MIDDLE EAST >> >> >> >> >> >> http://www.bigbridge.org >> >> ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 13:30:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aryanil Mukherjee Subject: Re: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST In-Reply-To: A<0A15B9AC-F51A-4E13-BD97-AEE9E34C28C0@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit exactly, never heard a journal shuts down (exactly for one month ???) to protest against wars. I thought bridges were meant for commu(nica)ting to places that were never quite reached. -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 1:10 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST Quel horseshit. Now is the time to open up, not shut down. (Except, of course, for summer vacation.) Hal "If you have liver disease, tell your doctor." --TV drug commercial Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@gmail.com halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Jul 21, 2006, at 12:03 PM, Maria Damon wrote: > this is v powerful when i visit the website... > perhaps others will join in? > > At 12:57 PM -0400 7/21/06, Vernon Frazer wrote: >> BIG BRIDGE WILL SHUT DOWN >> >> >> FROM JULY 20, 2006 THROUGH AUGUST 20, 2006 >> >> >> TO PROTEST ALL WARS >> >> >> AND TO DEMONSTRATE OUR SADNESS AND HORROR >> >> >> AT THE TRAGIC LOSS OF HUMAN LIFE >> >> >> IN THE MIDDLE EAST >> >> >> >> >> >> http://www.bigbridge.org >> >> ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 14:24:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST In-Reply-To: <0A15B9AC-F51A-4E13-BD97-AEE9E34C28C0@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Yeah, that exactly one month thing does look a mite suspicious, like generating good will for going on vacation. As to impact, since I don't know what Big Bridge is and I'm probably more up on these things than anyone at whom the protest is presumably aimed, this is pretty much a tree falling in the forest. But in the spirit of solidarity, I'm not going to start up the web page that I wouldn't have started up anyway for at least a month. Mark At 01:10 PM 7/21/2006, you wrote: >Quel horseshit. Now is the time to open up, not >shut down. (Except, of course, for summer >vacation.) > >Hal > >"If you have liver disease, tell >your doctor." > --TV drug commercial > >Halvard Johnson >================ >halvard@gmail.com >halvard@earthlink.net >http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard >http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > > > > >On Jul 21, 2006, at 12:03 PM, Maria Damon wrote: > >>this is v powerful when i visit the website... >>perhaps others will join in? >> >>At 12:57 PM -0400 7/21/06, Vernon Frazer wrote: >>>BIG BRIDGE WILL SHUT DOWN >>> >>> >>>FROM JULY 20, 2006 THROUGH AUGUST 20, 2006 >>> >>> >>>TO PROTEST ALL WARS >>> >>> >>>AND TO DEMONSTRATE OUR SADNESS AND HORROR >>> >>> >>>AT THE TRAGIC LOSS OF HUMAN LIFE >>> >>> >>>IN THE MIDDLE EAST >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>http://www.bigbridge.org >>> ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 11:38:33 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amalio Madueno Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work In-Reply-To: <44BC50F7.20908@speakeasy.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit P sorry, no. A --- Paul Nelson wrote: > Does anyone know the English translation of an > apparently Greek phrase > Robert Duncan uses in the Ground Work poem: > Empedoklean Reveries? > It is in line 4 of the poem and looks something > like: nanal' eploes. > > Your assistance is greatly appreciated. > > Paul Nelson > > -- > Paul E. Nelson > www.GlobalVoicesRadio.org > www.SPLAB.org > 110 2nd Street S.W. #100 > Slaughter, WA 98001 > 253.735.6328 > toll-free 888.735.6328 > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 11:49:17 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Paul Nelson Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 19 Jul 2006 to 20 Jul 2006 (#2006-202) In-Reply-To: <1221bf350607210606w47da4adfud4946eac72c24f9a@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lisa Jarnot wrote: > Howdy List, re: Hesiod and Duncan, that is actually Passages 22: You > Muses. Sorry > for the initial mis-lead re: Empedoklean Reveries. Tom Lewis suggested several things, including "ugly quarrels", which fits the context of the poem. (Thank you Tom!) I wonder if there is a friend of Duncan on this list who knows more about how Duncan's split with Levertov over the Vietnam war affected his thinking. In letters to her, it seems clear that he did not care for the direction Denise's thoughts on the war took her life or her poetry. (He did not like poetry "with a point" anyway.) In the cited poem, it seems clear that he continued to move in a direction away from reaction and understood the toxic nature of oppositional thinking. > re: Empedoklean Reveries-- it was influenced by a good friend of RD's > named Norman Austin, a classics scholar who wrote a book called > Archery at the Dark of the Moon. I checked abebooks.com, and it is available starting at $45! I've a hold at the King County Library System. Thanks Lisa. > Best, > Lisa Jarnot Paul Nelson > > -- Paul E. Nelson www.GlobalVoicesRadio.org www.SPLAB.org 908 I. St. N.E. #4 Slaughter, WA 98002 253.735.6328 toll-free 888.735.6328 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 12:00:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: Re: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20060721142106.0532ade8@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mark Weiss wrote: > Yeah, that exactly one month thing does look a mite suspicious, like > generating good will for going on vacation. It's an annual. -- Jonathan Penton http://www.unlikelystories.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 14:11:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Re: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 37 days might have looked suspicious, also, being that it is not a round nu= mber, and some say off numbers draw more suspicion than, say, a baked potat= o in a swimsuit. War, what's it good for? Silly shit, like, everyone bustin' on Michael 'cau= se he chose to make a statement. No one's giving guff to all you shitheads = who protest in your many, fashionable ways. That's why war is so profitable. Why is war profitable? Because. Just becau= se. Christophe Casamassima, "Cornish Acid" > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jonathan Penton" > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST > Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 12:00:27 -0700 >=20 >=20 > Mark Weiss wrote: > > Yeah, that exactly one month thing does look a mite suspicious, like ge= nerating good will for=20 > > going on vacation. >=20 > It's an annual. >=20 > -- > Jonathan Penton > http://www.unlikelystories.org > Christophe Casamassima Professor Emiritus, Modern Languages & Philology University of Jamaica Avenue, Queens, N.Y. --=20 ___________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.graffiti.net/ Powered By Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 15:15:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST In-Reply-To: <44C1244B.9040902@natisp.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed And that would be a non sequitur. This is my loast allowable message for the day. It;s hard for me to imagine that anyone not on the ground (or with loved-ones on the ground) could feel more anguish about the situation in the Middle East and the incredibly stupid role of the US in it. That said, spinning one's wheels is spinning one's wheels. Horseshit, as Hal so aptly put it. Mark At 03:00 PM 7/21/2006, you wrote: >Mark Weiss wrote: >>Yeah, that exactly one month thing does look a mite suspicious, >>like generating good will for going on vacation. > >It's an annual. > >-- >Jonathan Penton >http://www.unlikelystories.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 12:25:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Diane DiPrima Subject: Re: Duncan Digs Deeper In-Reply-To: <54AA9B41BC35F34EAD02E660901D8A5A07ACB304@TLRUSMNEAGMBX10.ERF.THOMSON.COM> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Didn't say he "wasn't" a mystic -- however you define that. Just said he verbally eschewed all such labels. D. Di P. > From: "Tom W. Lewis" > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 09:53:54 -0500 > To: > Conversation: Duncan Digs Deeper > Subject: Re: Duncan Digs Deeper > > "that's about it" = that's about all *I* know of... not that I know much > of anything, necessarily. Sylvester: thanks for the Pound commentary > ref. > > was Duncan a "mystic"? I'm reading a book by Devin Johnston: > Precipitations: Contemporary American Poetry as Occult Practice > (Wesleyan U., 2002)... analyzes the influence of occultism on H.D., > James Merrill and Duncan... > > I know Duncan was influenced by alternative spiritual traditions early > on (I mean, he started life as a Bakersfield theosophist, which should > be an oxymoron)... was he critical of these matters as he developed, or > did he always believe in the big cosmic What accessible through ritual > and digging deeper/reaching higher? > > (that last line would be close to my own definition of mysticism: a > science of the Secrets) > > have a nice weekend, folks -- > > tl > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] > On Behalf Of sylvester pollet > Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 8:38 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work > > Tom, your "that's about it" misses Terrell's " Companion to The > Cantos of Ezra Pound," for one. best, Sylvester > > From: "Tom W. Lewis" > Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work > > Diane, I think you're right about the phrase coming from Empedocles, not > Hesiod -- the Perseus site is working today, and I was able to search > for instances of "Eris" in the Hesiodic corpus:=20 > > http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?lookup=3De%29%2Fris&advanced=3D > 1= > &do > c=3DPerseus:text:1999.01.0127&doc=3DPerseus:text:1999.01.0129&doc=3DPers > e= > us:te > xt:1999.01.0131&lang=3Dgreek&group=3Dbilevel > > (they don't have the Empedocles text up there, so we have to rely on > print) > > is there a study of classical language use (incl. Sanskrit, I guess) in > Modern & later 20th-c. poetry? would be interesting to see something > like that... I know of a set of foreign language concordances for > Finnegans Wake, but that's about it. > > how much Sanskrit/Vedic content is there in Duncan, by the way? how does > he use it? > > tl ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 12:38:53 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20060721151204.05342bd8@earthlink.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable I find the following piece about as editorially equitable as sanity can offer under present conditions. It's a bit horrific to imagine C Rice showing up weekend to confirm that this regional threat to Israel will, as much as possible, been completely eliminated in the most concrete form imaginable. In the same way that Iraq is a pyrrhic (disastrous) victory, one imagines Israel getting somewhat similarly swallowed by plunging into a G war with Hezbollah.=20 =20 The Lebanon Blitz By Alvaro Vargas Llosa Special to washingtonpost.com Friday, July 21, 2006; 12:00 AM WASHINGTON -- Israel's pursuit of Hezbollah in Lebanon is a mistake. It is unwittingly targeting the best hope of civilized life in the Middle East (outside of Israel itself) and creating the kind of moral and institutional vacuum that engenders sectarian violence. As I traveled in Lebanon two weeks ago, four things struck me: the almost miraculous reconstruction of Beirut; the free-thinking cosmopolitanism of its middle class; the spirit of peaceful coexistence among the various religious groups, thanks in part to the open-mindedness of much of the Sunn= i population; and the resentment against Hezbollah among Christians (who comprise more than 35 of the population) and Muslims almost everywhere except the Bekaa Valley and southern Lebanon. About This Column A native of Peru, veteran journalist Alvaro Vargas Llosa offers commentary=A0on international news with an emphasis on Latin American affairs= . Recent columns: El Otro Rostro de Europa The Other Face of Europe Los Dos M=E9xicos A Tale of Two Mexicos Los Nietos Del Islam More Vargas Llosa Vargas Llosa's Bio =A0 Save & Share Tag This Article =A0Saving options 1. Save to description:=A0Headline (required)=A0Byline 2. Save to notes (255 character max):=A0Blurb 3. Tag This Article Compared to any other Arab country, Lebanon was the closest thing to paradise. Yes, Hezbollah's mighty presence was obvious as I drove around Baalbek, in the east, and from Tyre to the border with Israel in the south, where the Shiite population is concentrated. The yellow Hezbollah banners, pictures of Hasan Nasrallah's bearded face or of the late Ayatollah Khomein= i indicated whose bastion I was in. And I heard Walid Jumblatt, one of the leaders responsible for forcing Syria's withdrawal from Lebanon and a pilla= r of the parliamentary majority, express frustration with Hezbollah's influence in the nation's politics. But Lebanon was obviously making progress. Its legendary entrepreneurial drive was back. Even with an economy not fully recovered from a civil war that reduced the country's GDP by half, one sensed a spirit of optimism. People were planning all sorts of personal projects -- an unmistakable sign of civil society, whether it be opening new bars on Beirut's Monot Street or, as Nada, an assistant working at a cultural institute, had just done, persuading a publisher to start an imprint devoted to translations of Spain's modern literature. All of this progress has now been reduced to rubble. The infrastructure tha= t took billions of dollars to rebuild is being pulverized. The institutions that managed to hold the internal peace are being blown away. The confident embrace of the outside world is dissipating. An atmosphere is now emerging in which civil society will shrink and extremists will thrive, as happened between 1975 and 1990. The country will now be hostage to the ideological and personal designs of power-hungry leaders. (As I write these words, I ge= t an e-mail from Nada: "... We are trapped. If Israel stops, the threat of this happening again will hang over us forever because Hezbollah is still strong. If they don't, we will be paying too high a price. ... They have just bombed Byblos (a city in northern Lebanon) ... this is hell, we are running out of fuel!") It is true that Lebanon in transition had many problems, including the political survival of many leaders who fought the war, a power-sharing arrangement entirely based on religious grounds and, especially, the incapacity of the political institutions to disarm Hezbollah. But Israel's reprisals are not making that right. They are punishing a moderately successful attempt at religious diversity in a climate of peaceful coexistence and modernization in the Arab world. Hezbollah is in part a creature of Israel's presence in Lebanon from 1982 until 2000. Unlike the civil society that is being bombed, Hezbollah is trained in guerrilla fighting. And if things continue as they are, these terrorists will now be handed a failed state in which they will make themselves the only operative Lebanese force. Few things can be more legitimate than defending oneself against the attack= s of an organization such as Hezbollah, whose cowardly rockets are aimed at terrorizing the whole of the Galilee hills area in Israel, whose allies -- Iran and Syria -- are two of the worst human-right offenders in the history of mankind, and whose ideology is simply barbaric. But Israel's response places collective guilt on an entire society for the atrocities of a minority of which that society is itself the victim. Gideon Levy, an Israeli commentator, put it like this in an article published in Haaretz: "Eight soldiers are killed and two abducted to Lebanon? All of Lebanon will pay. ... The (army) absorbed two painful blows= , which were particularly humiliating, and in their wake went into a war that is all about restoring its lost dignity, which on our side is called 'restoring deterrent capabilities.'" It is hard to see how a nation that stands for moral rectitude and civilization can win people over to its struggle for security by using mean= s that tarnish that very objective. Alvaro Vargas Llosa, author of "Liberty for Latin America," is the director of the Center on Global Prosperity at the Independent Institute. His e-mail address is AVLlosa@independent.org. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 12:59:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Penton Subject: [Fwd: Michael Rothenberg and Murat Nemet-Nejat David Meltzer and Pat Nolan Reading at Moe's] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Monday July 31st David Meltzer Pat Nolan Monday August 7th Michael Rothenberg Marat Nemet-Nejat reading at Moe's Books 2476 Telegraph Avenue all readings 7:30 Please note: we have photos, video and audio of previous readings on the website: moesbooks.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 16:10:17 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AMBogle2@AOL.COM Subject: Re: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I agree with Maria's opinon that it is a powerful statement at Big Bridge's website, closed for one month in protest against the outbreak of war between Israel and Lebanon. My tobacconist is Palestinian; my psychiatrist is Lebanese; these are things I do to keep the peace. I am glad that my short story up at Big Bridge, written solely for entertainment purposes, a story about how people must scramble to keep having sex during a hurricane that didn't even hit Houston has been interrupted by war at this time. Ann Bogle ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 16:28:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST Comments: To: Halvard Johnson In-Reply-To: <0A15B9AC-F51A-4E13-BD97-AEE9E34C28C0@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable I almost never agree with Halvard, but in this I agree whole- heartedly. Because liberals value engagement and communication, some na=EFve liberals figure that they are punishing people when they disengage and fall silent. What those na=EFve liberals fail to understand is that the haters are happiest when the reasonable people who want to engage and communicate fall silent. That's when the haters can do their best work, unimpeded by the thought process. Good work, Halvard. Marcus On 21 Jul 2006 at 12:10, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Quel horseshit. Now is the time to open up, not > shut down. (Except, of course, for summer > vacation.) > > Hal > > "If you have liver disease, tell > your doctor." > --TV drug commercial > > Halvard Johnson > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > halvard@gmail.com > halvard@earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > > > > > On Jul 21, 2006, at 12:03 PM, Maria Damon wrote: > > > this is v powerful when i visit the website... > > perhaps others will join in? > > > > At 12:57 PM -0400 7/21/06, Vernon Frazer wrote: > >> BIG BRIDGE WILL SHUT DOWN > >> > >> > >> FROM JULY 20, 2006 THROUGH AUGUST 20, 2006 > >> > >> > >> TO PROTEST ALL WARS > >> > >> > >> AND TO DEMONSTRATE OUR SADNESS AND HORROR > >> > >> > >> AT THE TRAGIC LOSS OF HUMAN LIFE > >> > >> > >> IN THE MIDDLE EAST > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> http://www.bigbridge.org > >> > >> ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 22:36:34 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Recent Nomadics Blog Posts Comments: cc: Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics , Lucifer Poetics Group , BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Recent Nomadics Blog Posts: The War in Lebanon La Garbure @ Rodez Festival News from Lebanon Beirut, Beirut. C=E9sar Vallejo was Here Square (real or virtual?) Mehdi Ben Barka Recycled or Plastic Paper? which you can read here: http://pjoris.blogspot.com apologies for crossposting Pierre =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism,since it is the merger of state and corporate power." =97 Benito Mussolini =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D Pierre Joris 244 Elm Street Albany NY 12202 home: 518 426 0433 cell: 518 225 7123 office: 518 442 40 85 Paris: 01 43 54 95 13 French cell: 06 75 43 57 10 email: joris@albany.edu http://pierrejoris.com Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 13:42:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: WET ASPHALT STILL OPEN -- PROTEST In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20060721142106.0532ade8@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Well, Wet Asphalt isn't shutting down, summer vacation or no. I think our articles about contemporary literature will have a much greater impact on international policy if we remain in the public eye rather than silencing ourselves in protest. I'm planning an article next week about Dana Gioia's impact as potentiometer supreme at the NEA. Here's hoping that the Hazbollah guerillas and israeli military really take it to heart and decide to initiate peace talks. in other recent wetasphalt articles: *A very long interview with the talented women behind One Story magazine. *A link and comment on 1.) a very good essay by Tom Bissell, and 2.) a very weird interview with Neil Stephenson *Columns about how bad Superman Returns is and the strange fact that Jin Yong, one of the most popular writers in the world, is virtually unpublished in English. *A long rambling essay by yours truly in support of reading poetry silently and the connection between subvocalization, dialect, and the myth of regularity in poetic meter. All very entertaining and very free of charge on the internet: http://www.wetasphalt.com It is hoped that through the crass self-promotion entailed by our staying open in protest that the various adherents abrahamic religions will finally set aside their differences, tribal disputes, and worship of mammon and realize that what really matters is that someone buys my novel before i turn thirty in a couple of years. That way the press can characterize me as a wunderkind rather than continually writing about various international factions such as the lebanese, the US, and israel as variously: "terrorists" "bullies" "murderers" and "greedy whores." I am in fact a terrorist a bully a murderer and most especially a greedy whore, and I'm certain that the international press' time and energy would be much better spent talking about me and my writing than all of this war stuff. To that end, I work now to further my own career and to establish some modicum of literary "celebrity" only in the interests of peace in the middle east. thanks for helping in this noble effor by reading this email. yours, JF Quackenbush I bet i'm a shoe in for the Nobel Peace prize for this. On Fri, 21 Jul 2006, Mark Weiss wrote: > Yeah, that exactly one month thing does look a mite suspicious, like generating > good will for going on vacation. > > As to impact, since I don't know what Big Bridge is and I'm probably more up on > these things than anyone at whom the protest is presumably aimed, this is > pretty much a tree falling in the forest. > > But in the spirit of solidarity, I'm not going to start up the web page that I > wouldn't have started up anyway for at least a month. > > Mark > > At 01:10 PM 7/21/2006, you wrote: >> Quel horseshit. Now is the time to open up, not >> shut down. (Except, of course, for summer >> vacation.) >> >> Hal >> >> "If you have liver disease, tell >> your doctor." >> --TV drug commercial >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> halvard@gmail.com >> halvard@earthlink.net >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> >> >> >> >> On Jul 21, 2006, at 12:03 PM, Maria Damon wrote: >> >>> this is v powerful when i visit the website... >>> perhaps others will join in? >>> >>> At 12:57 PM -0400 7/21/06, Vernon Frazer wrote: >>>> BIG BRIDGE WILL SHUT DOWN >>>> >>>> >>>> FROM JULY 20, 2006 THROUGH AUGUST 20, 2006 >>>> >>>> >>>> TO PROTEST ALL WARS >>>> >>>> >>>> AND TO DEMONSTRATE OUR SADNESS AND HORROR >>>> >>>> >>>> AT THE TRAGIC LOSS OF HUMAN LIFE >>>> >>>> >>>> IN THE MIDDLE EAST >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.bigbridge.org >>>> > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 17:15:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Minky Starshine Subject: Re: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST In-Reply-To: <20060721191117.06A5213F17@ws5-9.us4.outblaze.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit War is profitable. Like Oil. I love oil. Oil is so neat. I love Hummers. They make the people and the war tigers go. -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of furniture_ press Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 3:11 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST 37 days might have looked suspicious, also, being that it is not a round number, and some say off numbers draw more suspicion than, say, a baked potato in a swimsuit. War, what's it good for? Silly shit, like, everyone bustin' on Michael 'cause he chose to make a statement. No one's giving guff to all you shitheads who protest in your many, fashionable ways. That's why war is so profitable. Why is war profitable? Because. Just because. Christophe Casamassima, "Cornish Acid" > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jonathan Penton" > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST > Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 12:00:27 -0700 > > > Mark Weiss wrote: > > Yeah, that exactly one month thing does look a mite suspicious, like generating good will for > > going on vacation. > > It's an annual. > > -- > Jonathan Penton > http://www.unlikelystories.org > Christophe Casamassima Professor Emiritus, Modern Languages & Philology University of Jamaica Avenue, Queens, N.Y. -- ___________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.graffiti.net/ Powered By Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 17:26:19 -0400 Reply-To: az421@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: rob mclennan, perth flowers MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT rob mclennan is never far from poetry action in Ottawa. Nomados is pleased to announce PERTH FLOWERS by ROB MCLENNAN. 26 pp ISBN 0-9781072-0-7 @ $8.00 (rob mclennan is one of the best contemporary poets in Canada. His eyes are wide open to the content of the world and its flux that we immediately need to recognize. Barry McKinnon) ORDER FROM Meredith Quartermain via Nomados P.O. Box 4031, 349 West Georgia, Vancouver, B.C. V6B 3Z4 OR via email: nomadosnomados@yahoo.com OTHER NOMADOS BOOKS CREPUSCULE ON MISSION STREET by AARON PECK 27 pp ISBN 0-9781072-0-9 @ $8.00 (With all the seductive charm of well-told gossip, this unfolding conversation draws us deep into the mysteries of the current day - money, art, fakery, friendship - even as it skates across the great separating distances of living, a jet plane making serial hops in the course of a long circuitous day. This is magical, compact writing that nevertheless exudes the marvelous, deluded spaciousness and ease of the North American west coast. Matthew Stadler) SENIORS by GEORGE STANLEY. 16 pp ISBN 0-9735337-8-1 @ $8.00. (There's a hidden and perhaps secret fierceness of spirit in the quiet sardonic wit of these poems, their dismay at the comic helplessness of aging and its conditioned delights, the narrowing horizons of the ordinary, and muted wonder at its flavour. "Words have to come out of the world" puns one of Stanley's flat down-to-earth illusory rejections of the illusory. There's a toughness in the complexity of such ironic comedies, and delicacy in their recurrent thought on words, on poems, on where they come from. There's not one casual utterance in the everydayness of Seniors, but there are currents of strong feeling. One reads, and rereads, and then one reads again. Peter Quartermain) Vancouver writer George Stanley is the winner of the 2006 Shelley award from the Poetry Society of America. ADULT VIDEO by MARGARET CHRISTAKOS 26 pp ISBN 0-9735337-7-3 @ $8.00. (In the densening recombinations of Margaret Christakos's Adult Video, the poet plays loop-de-loop with a teeming cast of characters, or demi-characters, women with names and families whose outline remains enigmatically opaque. Gertie, Tammy, Meg, Samantha, Elizabeth. It's a world where letters and initials stand in for conjunctions and pronouns; where, as Britney Spears sang, while still a virgin, I'm a slave 4 U. Margaret Christakos, a poet of labour, is in addition a brilliant thinker on sexuality and its uses. Adult Video takes on the antiseptics and anapestics of a male-driven Oulipean procedural vision, and pulls them inside out until, finally, something ratty and valuable lets itself show and moan. Kevin Killian) COLD TRIP by NANCY SHAW & CATRIONA STRANG 28 pp ISBN 0-9735337-6-5 @ $10.00 (This season offers its coldest pronoun. In the year 2005, the human subject is sold for oil, bound with fear and gagged with dumb longing. Shaw and Strang loosen the pronominal wire. In COLD TRIP, the tragic lyric is resung and unsung. Repetition shifts the I's bind and the subject finds relief in the civic wide surface of words - "each current/ will win me/ each surface also." Each tilting word edge is the subject's end and its agency-the music of identity and its unraveling. So, sing I thus, and in the warmth of the possible and in the sorrow of the uncertainty, "the glowing might be named." Christine Stewart) READY FOR FREDDY by RENEE RODIN 32 pp ISBN 0-9735337-5-7 @ $10.00 ("Despite having been diagnosed with cancer several months before, my father remained healthy. Sandy and I, Abe's only children, had been told he probably wouldn't last another year but he had not wanted to hear the prognosis. He just kept telling everyone 'I'm going to beat it.' . . ." Candid and often funny, this is a story about siblings and their elderly parent. It is riveting and rich -- a new take on a classic theme.) REWRITING MY GRANDFATHER by GEORGE BOWERING 36 pp ISBN 0-9735337-4-9 $10.00 (One night in his youth, after a great many beers, George Bowering wrote a poem about his grandfather which has since appeared in countless anthologies. It is not Bowering's favorite poem, by a long shot. Rewriting My Grandfather tells us why this young-man's grandfather poem cannot go on unchallenged, and then puts Grandfather goes through some inventive milling machines.) WEEPING WILLOW by SHARON THESEN 27 pp ISBN 0-9735337-3-0 $8.00 (Twelve exquisite poems - wry, gossipy, yet deeply felt - recall Thesen's long-time friend Angela Bowering.) ROUSSEAU'S BOAT by LISA ROBERTSON 40 pp ISBN 0-9735337-1-4 $10.00 (Rousseau's intuition of the abiding jouissance of pre-reflexive existence - to which non-strategic states of consciousness such as passivity, repose, and reverie offer the only access - is the matrix from which Lisa Robertson's new project emerges. Rousseau's "fifth walk" supplies her not so much with a tutor text to sample and rearrange, as with a generative "figure" in the Barthesian sense, which is to say a gesture and a posture that render certain utterances sayable. . . . Rousseau's boat, a vehicle for transport, not to and from defined docks, but out of directionality and purposiveness itself, might as well be Cage's anechoic chamber, a space in which stillness yields not silence but a previously unlistened for sonic plenitude. Rousseau's boat is a figure for the practice of what Pauline Oliveros calls "deep listening," a disciplined attention to inescapable, and intricately differentiated, sonic plenitude. Steve Evans) WINNER BP NICHOL CHAPBOOK AWARD 2004 GOOD EGG BAD SEED by SUSAN HOLBROOK ISBN 0-9735337-0-6 $10.00 (Starting with the premise "There are two kinds of people," Susan Holbrook drives supermarket existentialism through its own vortex and gives it a nifty orgasmic twist into hyperspace. Here's a ping pong game you'll never forget - where the tables keep flipping and players' ironic bats spin the banal into deadly mischievous curves.) WORLD ON FIRE by CHARLES BERNSTEIN. 24pp ISBN 0-9731521-9-2 $10.00 (In a world where billboards fill the sky and household names rain down with torrential indifference, Charles Bernstein shows us how to meet the inferno with exhilarating wit and verve, humorous plays on familiar phrasing, and nifty substitutions, as we fly our spaceships along the language tracks available to us. Meredith Quartermain) HI DDEVIOLETH I DDE VIOLET by KATHLEEN FRASER. 36pp ISBN 0-9731521-7-6 $10.00. (Fraser's linguistic play and typographical invention have never been more assured and brilliant. Marjorie Perloff) THE IRREPARABLE by ROBIN BLASER. 32pp ISBN 0-9731521-1-7. $10.00. (Who else but a poet, and not just any poet but Canada's Robin Blaser, could take on that word "transcendence" and recuperate it in the moment of a civic frame, one with the capacity to restore us to the "world" restless in world, the "where is" which is where we abide. Erín Moure) SEVEN GLASS BOWLS by DAPHNE MARLATT. 24pp ISBN 0-9731521-5-X. $10.00. ("Home and the closeness of the beloved," she writes. There can be no subject as important to the poet and the rest of us, and in this lovely poem, Daphne Marlatt continuously achieves her best yet "homing in." That present participle is our sweet clue to a mystery we are encouraged to enter. Gladly. George Bowering) WANDERS. Nineteen poems by ROBIN BLASER with nineteen responses by Meredith Quartermain. 40pp ISBN 0-9731521-0-9. $10.00. (A spring-coiled peck from Dickinson on the pitch-perfect cheek of Marianne Moore. Daniel Comiskey ++ An amazing, even jaw dropping performance . . . . her poems absolutely stand up to the challenge of Blaser's own . . . . The sum of it is totally exhilarating. Ron Silliman) A THOUSAND MORNINGS by MEREDITH QUARTERMAIN. 90pp ISBN 0-9731521-2-5. $10.00. (A serious-playful and engaging work in which she weighs and sounds what presents itself outside a real window, inside language, and through verbal-emotional associations. This work creates an osmotic border between seeing and writing, a realist hypnogogic passage between memory and today, between outside and inside, between now and then. That anywhere is everywhere is proven once again with this brave, enchanting book. Rachel Blau DuPlessis) *************************** Meredith Quartermain 846 Keefer Street Vancouver BC Canada -- poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics (Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...11th coll'n - name , an errant (Stride, UK) .... c/o 858 Somerset St W, Ottawa ON K1R 6R7 * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 15:56:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: philosophy question In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Jim, i'm sorry, but you're missing my point here. Wittgenstein's > arguments aren't cautionary tales but elucidations of > impossibilities. He's not saying just that one shouldn't talk, or > be careful about talking about certain things, he' showing that > there are whole domains wherein it is impossible to say anything > meaningful, the metaphysics of mathematics being one of those > domains. Moreover, he takes aim specifically at the idea that > what logicians and mathematicians do is make claims about the > world. rather, logicians and mathematicians extend the grammar of > language, that's it, and as such their work is trivial and has no > metaphysical import or consequences. I think Uncle would have > liked digital computers, but the idea of a machine carrying out > an algorithm based on logical conditions, which is what computers > are, isn't necessarily preceded by the metaphysical conclusions > that formalists > like turing or realists like godel. In other words, Wittgenstein > is a very complicated and deep thinker and his thought has very > real consequences not for mathematics, but about the limits of > what mathematics can say, and i think you'd really quite enjoy a > lot of what he has to say on the subject. I'd start with the > Tractatus and then read the Philosophical Investigations. Both > books are highly rewarding. OK, Jason, I'll pick em up if you'll pick up Martin Davis's book 'Engines of Logic' ( http://tinyurl.com/fe9fx ). This looks at the achievements, failures, and lives of Leibniz, Boole, Frege, Cantor, Hilbert, Godel, and Turing. It looks at the development of the computer as a story that wends through the lives of these logicians/mathematicians from 'Leibniz's dream' of a language of symbolic logic and a machine capable of producing and testing the truth of propositions expressed in that language. So it is fascinating as a book in the 'history of ideas' but also concerning the trials and tribulations in the lives of these seven. And Martin Davis is himself quite a renowned logician. ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 16:34:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Paul Nelson Subject: Re: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST In-Reply-To: <000901c6ad0a$cebed950$6401a8c0@deborahhome> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Minky Starshine wrote: > War is profitable. Like Oil. I love oil. Oil is so neat. I love Hummers. > They make the people and the war tigers go. > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] > On Behalf Of furniture_ press > Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 3:11 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST > > 37 days might have looked suspicious, also, being that it is not a round > number, and some say off numbers draw more suspicion than, say, a baked > potato in a swimsuit. > > War, what's it good for? Silly shit, like, everyone bustin' on Michael > 'cause he chose to make a statement. No one's giving guff to all you > shitheads who protest in your many, fashionable ways. > > That's why war is so profitable. Why is war profitable? Because. Just > because. > > Christophe Casamassima, "Cornish Acid" > Opposing something may not be the most effective strategy in the effort to create something more evolved to take its place. The U.S. government and military is said to oppose terrorism, yet there is a great deal more terror now in the world than there was on September 11th. (/War on Terra/.) This is one reason I find Pierre Joris' blog quite remarkable. Rather than shut down in protest, he uses his blog as a source of alternative perspectives on the conflict, from Europe and the Middle East, and has posted a remarkable picture of Israeli girls signing their names on artillery shells to be used on Lebanon. Quite poignant. http://pjoris.blogspot.com/ Paul Nelson -- Paul E. Nelson www.GlobalVoicesRadio.org www.SPLAB.org 908 I. St. N.E. #4 Slaughter, WA 98002 253.735.6328 toll-free 888.735.6328 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 18:50:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: P Backonja Subject: Re: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline yes, ann. your story in Big Bridge has been interrupted. the protest works by redirecting ANY and ALL traffic--links from everwhere to every poet's work in every issue of Big Bridge--to the very austere protest page. there is nothing "silent" about this. and though ostensibly "shut down", all these re-directed links "open" to a stark message. it is audacious really, like a protest ought to be. the people who might complain about it would be the writers and artists whose work is being blocked by a message they don't agree with. if there are any of these maybe they'll speak up, rather than people worried if the editors of Big Bridge are just taking a vacation. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 08:29:37 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST In-Reply-To: <53c2c2de0607211650xe682385sd0c675cffcadc3ea@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I am surprised by some answers here. Let me explain first that technically a site is not a blog. When a site, as in this case Big Bridge shuts down, it does not mean that the editor(s) are on holiday, but that access is forbidden to those readers who are interested in getting through some pages (as I wanted - I haven't got yet to the incredible part dedicated to Karl Young I was planning for this summer). These readers are faced with a black page and a protest. I felt this wall when I first saw it, and see it again every time I get to it. A wall pulled up there for everybody: occasional and regular readers or contributors, that we should remember, or mildly put, that we are not the only ones to be shocked. I find that Michael Rothenberg's position is very strong, and I support it (as I usually support his choices), even if, as I said, it is against my immediate interest /or plans. Good work for the good people behind sites, and especially to M. Rothenberg and Vernon Frazer! Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 05:07:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: "BEYOND WORDS", an exhibition of new work by August Highland Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=response Since August Highland began exhibiting 24 months ago, he has been in as many exhibitions, including five solo shows. His solo shows have been applauded with highly complimentary reviews and press in the LA Weekly, ArtScene, ArtWeek and the San Diego Union Tribune. His reinventive method of painting has been a subject of enthusiastic interest by academia as well - he has lectured at Harvard and other American Universities, has had scholarly papers about his work presented at literary/art conferences and has been interviewed over one dozen times. Coming this Fall, LOOK GALLERY, in association with LOST-AND-FOUND PRODUCTIONS and END-GAME ENTERTAINMENT, is proud to present "BEYOND WORDS", an exhibition of new work by August Highland. "BEYOND WORDS" is sponsored in part by the CULTURE ANIMAL MEDIA GROUP. Additional funding has been provided through generous contributions by the Teddy Warburg Memorial Trust, the WLMN Council for the Arts and the J. Foundation. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.3/395 - Release Date: 7/21/2006 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 10:25:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70607212329m2c644f94q74202e0c539a5aa7@mail.gmail.co m> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Anny, Michael: Forget the vacation thing, silly on my part. But look, I get a rather melodramatic email announcing a virtually invisible (virtual) protest. We all protest in our own ways, I suppose, but this is like a hunger strike in a kindergarten. Its only purpose seems to be to declare oneself among the righteous. That, and to vent the frustration that a lot of us feel. It's difficult, given the power of the presidency, to know what to do before election day, many deaths from now. In poll after poll the population at large makes clear its opposition to the war in Iraq to no effect, and it's hard to imagine any US congress voting to halt arms shipments to Israel. And short of putting in place a congress that would be willing to make our loan guarantees to Israel conditional on good behavior I don't see that we can do much about Israeli policy. For a change the images on the evening news (not just on PBS) make it hard to see what's going on as just a war against those evil terrorists--the killing or displacement of masses of people who dress too much like Americans to dismiss as Other might have some impact on public opinion. And as we get closer to election day that might have some impact on policy. Mark At 02:29 AM 7/22/2006, you wrote: >I am surprised by some answers here. Let me explain first that technically a >site is not a blog. When a site, as in this case Big Bridge shuts down, it >does not mean that the editor(s) are on holiday, but that access is >forbidden to those readers who are interested in getting through some pages >(as I wanted - I haven't got yet to the incredible part dedicated to Karl >Young I was planning for this summer). These readers are faced with a black >page and a protest. I felt this wall when I first saw it, and see it again >every time I get to it. A wall pulled up there for everybody: occasional and >regular readers or contributors, that we should remember, or mildly put, >that we are not the only ones to be shocked. > >I find that Michael Rothenberg's position is very strong, and I support it >(as I usually support his choices), even if, as I said, it is against my >immediate interest /or plans. > >Good work for the good people behind sites, and especially to M. Rothenberg >and Vernon Frazer! > >Anny Ballardini >http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >star! >Friedrich Nietzsche ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 10:40:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dave Subject: Re: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20060722095744.0539a8e8@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mark, While I agree that there is little that we can actually achieve, I still think it is worth making your statement some how. Individually or in groups. I may not be out shutting down bridges, yet I still need to speak out. If only to a few. In any way that we each can. Making art, poetr4y readings, graffiti, John Lennon's give peace a chance, while it did not change how congress voted, while his bed-in for peace did not change how the president acted, still empowered others to speak out as well. Speaking out may only be about personal transformation. Change the world, one person at a time. dave -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Mark Weiss Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 10:25 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST Anny, Michael: Forget the vacation thing, silly on my part. But look, I get a rather melodramatic email announcing a virtually invisible (virtual) protest. We all protest in our own ways, I suppose, but this is like a hunger strike in a kindergarten. Its only purpose seems to be to declare oneself among the righteous. That, and to vent the frustration that a lot of us feel. It's difficult, given the power of the presidency, to know what to do before election day, many deaths from now. In poll after poll the population at large makes clear its opposition to the war in Iraq to no effect, and it's hard to imagine any US congress voting to halt arms shipments to Israel. And short of putting in place a congress that would be willing to make our loan guarantees to Israel conditional on good behavior I don't see that we can do much about Israeli policy. For a change the images on the evening news (not just on PBS) make it hard to see what's going on as just a war against those evil terrorists--the killing or displacement of masses of people who dress too much like Americans to dismiss as Other might have some impact on public opinion. And as we get closer to election day that might have some impact on policy. Mark At 02:29 AM 7/22/2006, you wrote: >I am surprised by some answers here. Let me explain first that technically a >site is not a blog. When a site, as in this case Big Bridge shuts down, it >does not mean that the editor(s) are on holiday, but that access is >forbidden to those readers who are interested in getting through some pages >(as I wanted - I haven't got yet to the incredible part dedicated to Karl >Young I was planning for this summer). These readers are faced with a black >page and a protest. I felt this wall when I first saw it, and see it again >every time I get to it. A wall pulled up there for everybody: occasional and >regular readers or contributors, that we should remember, or mildly put, >that we are not the only ones to be shocked. > >I find that Michael Rothenberg's position is very strong, and I support it >(as I usually support his choices), even if, as I said, it is against my >immediate interest /or plans. > >Good work for the good people behind sites, and especially to M. Rothenberg >and Vernon Frazer! > >Anny Ballardini >http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >star! >Friedrich Nietzsche ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 07:43:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adam Fieled Subject: Tammy Armstrong, Jesus Erminy on PFS Post MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit New on PFS Post (http://www.artrecess.blogspot.com): -- four wonderful poems from Canada's own Tammy Armstrong --three stills from Venezuelan sculptor & environmental activist Jesus Erminy Enjoy! Love, Adam Fieled afieled@yahoo.com --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 09:43:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: 'Vowels to blame' for German grumpiness Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed 'Vowels to blame' for German grumpiness http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/895503.stm Michael Schumacher: Down in the mouth? An American professor has developed a theory that Germans are bad- tempered because pronouncing German sounds puts a frown on the face. Professor David Myers believes that the facial contortions needed to pronounce vowels modified by the umlaut may be getting the Germans down in the mouth. Chancellor Schroeder: Hard to smile with an umlaut in your name The umlaut is the two dots which modify the sound of the vowels a, o and u - dots which many foreigners omit altogether, but which give the German language three alternative vowel sounds. Saying "u" - one of German's most recognisable sounds - causes the mouth to turn down. But the English sounds of "e" and "ah" - expressions used in smiling and laughing - have the opposite effect. Professor Myers told the Royal Society of Edinburgh on Thursday that frequent use of the muscles which the brain associates with sadness can adversely affect a person's mood. "Research has shown that the facial expression of a person can affect how funny they find cartoons," The London Times quotes him as saying. "Even when speaking, movements of the muscles in the face can change a person's mood. Ex-Chancellor Kohl: Glum over political woes or vowel sounds? "This could be a good reason why German people have got a reputation for being humourless and grumpy," said Professor Myers, who heads Psychology at Hope College, Michigan. He has just finished a sabbatical at St Andrews University which involved using electrodes to manipulate the muscles of the face - research which, he said, bore out his theory. A spokesperson for the German Embassy said: "We can give no comment on this as it is too scientific." ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 10:36:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST In-Reply-To: <53c2c2de0607211650xe682385sd0c675cffcadc3ea@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Yesterday as i do a couple times a week i went by a store run by North African friends and a Palestinian partner. A friend of all of ours of some years had returned to his family about two months ago in Gaza . . . Very late last night i returned to find these messages for the most part ridiculing an act of protest. Since 9/11 often people who agree with the aim of a protest will still ridicule it or critique it and find it wanting in some way. It is as though there is something embarrasing in protest, something from a different time period, best preserved ,analyzed, eulogized, canonized in images and words, too messy and time consuming for the present to be cool. Or just plain too ridiculous--American presidents & governments since Reagan, along with tv comics and commentators, have worked tirelessly to create an atmosphere in which protest is portrayed as an empty gesture made by self serving fools, their self righeousness and righteousness the easy butts of smug superior jokes. Ridicule is an old technique used in the crushing of political foes. One of the attractions of talk radio and the FOX network is hearing forms of protest or alternative anythings ridiculed into oblivion--all to the benefit of the status quo, if not the increased power of its most powerful members, which is really the main objective/result. For a long time after 9/11 protest in the "you're either with us or against us" atmosphere was easily criticized as un-american or lacking in grief for the victims of 9/11 etc. When that began to wear off, ridicule began to take its place. In the "poetics" community a formalist critique of protest takes place. Interestingly, people are more suspicious and cynical abt the motives for a thirty day protest than they are of the daily "news reports" of events in the Middle East. The criticism of the protest in many cases appears to have to do with form--the thirty days--form becomes the primary issue, not war or opposition to war, a specific war, etc. When the Sam Hamill edited POETS AGAINST THE WAR anthology became a surprise hit--"radical" poets Bernstein, Silliman, Watten critiqued it. For Bernstein it was all a matter of form--the anthology used "normative" language to respond to the upcoming war in Iraq rather than a discourse of "ambiguity" "complexity" "skepticism" in exploring the ways these norms are used to contain dissent. Before you take a 44 magnum marker to some cardboard and make a protest poster or grafitti poem or visual sign--stop! And analyse al the ways what you will write down are basically "normative" ( ie "square")--and containing you in repressive old school discourse--and write some essays--give some talks at conferences-- on strategies for the creation of complex ambiguous skepticisms of normative language in making protest posters. Meanwhile . . . as the Arab proverb has it, "The dog barks, the caravan passes." Perhaps if you agree with the views expressed by BIG BRIDGE yet have problems with the form in which their protest is expressed, organize a different form of protest which shows your solidariy with theirs. . . . no news now for three weeks of our friend and his family. Gaza has dropped out of sight in mainstream news--meanwhile, the world's largest prison has been reinvaded by Israeli tanks, bulldozers, bombs and drones--a drone killed four people yesterday. 100 Palestinains at least have died in last three weeks. Almost no food, no electricity at all, almost no medecine, now way out, nothing--and now the bombing of the water supplies has begun. Internationally recognized as a war crime. This is the third friend I have known in Milwaukee who returned to Palestine to their homeland and families and from reports is either known dead or presumed dead. All killed by American weapons which the Israelis get basically for free under a special program. (They used to sell the excess in these arms--making 100% proft--to South Africa under the old white regime.) In the news today--the USA is expediting a big shipment of bombs and explosives to Israel, a sign that the bombing wil continue for some weeks. Hopefully you can understand how strange to find these poetics messages at nearly 2 am, filled with familiar severe tension of combined numbness and rage and grief. Someone was shooting off a pistol--a couple shots near the crack houses down the street. Pop! pop! From the window you can see a few figures flee for the shadows . . . Billions of tax payer dollars drained from their own country and sent to Iraq and Israel--creating more violence at home and more abroad. "Death and taxes." Death is our business. Is that why protest is ridiculed--because death and taxes are inevitable? Again, if it is the form of the protest which bothers you, and not the substance, show support for the substance by choosing what you think a better way and use that to show solidarity. "United we stand, divided we fall"-- Meanwhile, the deaths of Palestinians go unnoticed and unnamed--and for the most part also the ones in neighborhoods like ours across the Land of the Free and Home of the Brave. As it says in George Orwell's ANIMAL FARM--"all animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others". Thank you to Big Bridge for a non-silent protest of the powerful black screen and white letters at their site. The colors in their starkness and letters' weights as forms, speak more powerfully to me than than the words alone. Whe I look at it i think of a poem i wrote for another Palestinian friend who is known to have been killed on return to homeland. It ends "to take in darkness/until all that remains/is light". I hope many many many create many many many forms of protest rather than critiquing and ridiculing the forms of others with whom one purports to agree. Here, for example, M. Antonin Artaud: "And if there is still one hellish, truly accursed thing in our time, it is our artistic dallying with forms, instead of being like victims at the stake, signaling through the flames." Signalling--yes,--victims--no--- >From: P Backonja >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST >Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 18:50:47 -0500 > >yes, ann. your story in Big Bridge has been interrupted. > >the protest works by redirecting ANY and ALL traffic--links from everwhere >to every poet's work in every issue of Big Bridge--to the very austere >protest page. > >there is nothing "silent" about this. > >and though ostensibly "shut down", all these re-directed links "open" to a >stark message. > >it is audacious really, like a protest ought to be. > >the people who might complain about it would be the writers and artists >whose work is being blocked by a message they don't agree with. if there >are >any of these maybe they'll speak up, rather than people worried if the >editors of Big Bridge are just taking a vacation. _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 12:14:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed OK, I might as well offend more people. For me the primary quality of that banner-headline protest was self-vaunting. Accounts like yours, based in compassion and loss, are more to the point. The question is how to keep them flowing beyond our very limited community. Not easy in a country where almost no one reads even a newspaper. Me, I give at the office. Appalled by the attitudes I found towards Mexico in San Diego, I edited an anthology of poetry from immediately beyond the border. Not an overtly political act, but hopefully those who read it had a harder time seeing the next neighborhood over as merely a source of cheap booze, cheap blowjobs and cheap labor. It sold well in places devoted to Baja California tourism on the US side, and in the local art museums, both beyond the choir of the already convinced. Now I'm doing a Cuban anthology, which won't satisfy anybody politically who looks for overt content, but which hopefully will broaden people's understanding. The point is to stop reducing others to caricatures. Maybe I should have plastered the cover of the Baja California book with a slogan like "read this, it will make you a better person, like me." I don't think that would have helped the book accomplish even the little bit that it did. Somebody mentioned John Lennon's Give Peace a Chance. It happens that I was one of 300,000 protestors at the Washington Monument when Lennon first sang it. A jingle to help rally our troops. Those rallies happened weekly. It would be nice if something similar happened now, but I doubt it will unless the draft is brought back, this time without exemptions for the relatively well-off. At 11:36 AM 7/22/2006, you wrote: > Yesterday as i do a couple times a week i went by a store run > by North African friends and a Palestinian partner. A friend of all > of ours of some years had returned to his family about two months > ago in Gaza . . . > Very late last night i returned to find these messages for the > most part ridiculing an act of protest. > Since 9/11 often people who agree with the aim of a protest > will still ridicule it or critique it and find it wanting in some > way. It is as though there is something embarrasing in protest, > something from a different time period, best preserved ,analyzed, > eulogized, canonized in images and words, too messy and time > consuming for the present to be cool. Or just plain too > ridiculous--American presidents & governments since Reagan, along > with tv comics and commentators, have worked tirelessly to create > an atmosphere in which protest is portrayed as an empty gesture > made by self serving fools, their self righeousness and > righteousness the easy butts of smug superior jokes. Ridicule is > an old technique used in the crushing of political foes. One of > the attractions of talk radio and the FOX network is hearing forms > of protest or alternative anythings ridiculed into oblivion--all > to the benefit of the status quo, if not the increased power of its > most powerful members, which is really the main objective/result. > For a long time after 9/11 protest in the "you're either with us or > against us" atmosphere was easily criticized as un-american or > lacking in grief for the victims of 9/11 etc. When that began to > wear off, ridicule began to take its place. > In the "poetics" community a formalist critique of protest > takes place. Interestingly, people are more suspicious and cynical > abt the motives for a thirty day protest than they are of the daily > "news reports" of events in the Middle East. The criticism of the > protest in many cases appears to have to do with form--the thirty > days--form becomes the primary issue, not war or opposition to war, > a specific war, etc. When the Sam Hamill edited POETS AGAINST THE > WAR anthology became a surprise hit--"radical" poets Bernstein, > Silliman, Watten critiqued it. For Bernstein it was all a matter > of form--the anthology used "normative" language to respond to the > upcoming war in Iraq rather than a discourse of "ambiguity" > "complexity" "skepticism" in exploring the ways these norms are > used to contain dissent. Before you take a 44 magnum marker to > some cardboard and make a protest poster or grafitti poem or visual > sign--stop! >And analyse al the ways what you will write down are basically >"normative" ( ie "square")--and containing you in repressive old >school discourse--and write some essays--give some talks at >conferences-- on strategies for the creation of complex ambiguous >skepticisms of normative language in making protest >posters. Meanwhile . . . as the Arab proverb has it, "The dog >barks, the caravan passes." > Perhaps if you agree with the views expressed by BIG BRIDGE yet > have problems with the form in which their protest is expressed, > organize a different form of protest which shows your solidariy with theirs. > . . . no news now for three weeks of our friend and his > family. Gaza has dropped out of sight in mainstream > news--meanwhile, the world's largest prison has been reinvaded by > Israeli tanks, bulldozers, bombs and drones--a drone killed four > people yesterday. 100 Palestinains at least have died in last three > weeks. Almost no food, no electricity at all, almost no medecine, > now way out, nothing--and now the bombing of the water supplies has > begun. Internationally recognized as a war crime. > This is the third friend I have known in Milwaukee who > returned to Palestine to their homeland and families and from > reports is either known dead or presumed dead. All killed by > American weapons which the Israelis get basically for free under a > special program. (They used to sell the excess in > these arms--making 100% proft--to South Africa under the old white regime.) >In the news today--the USA is expediting a big shipment of bombs and >explosives to Israel, a sign that the bombing wil continue for some weeks. > Hopefully you can understand how strange to find these poetics > messages at nearly 2 am, filled with familiar severe tension of > combined numbness and rage and grief. Someone was shooting off a > pistol--a couple shots near the crack houses down the street. Pop! > pop! From the window you can see a few figures flee for the shadows . . . > Billions of tax payer dollars drained from their own country > and sent to Iraq and Israel--creating more violence at home and > more abroad. "Death and taxes." Death is our business. Is that > why protest is ridiculed--because death and taxes are inevitable? > Again, if it is the form of the protest which bothers you, and > not the substance, show support for the substance by choosing what > you think a better way and use that to show solidarity. > "United we stand, divided we fall"-- > > Meanwhile, the deaths of Palestinians go unnoticed and > unnamed--and for the most part also the ones in neighborhoods like > ours across the Land of the Free and Home of the Brave. > As it says in George Orwell's ANIMAL FARM--"all animals are > created equal, but some are more equal than others". > > Thank you to Big Bridge for a non-silent protest of the > powerful black screen and white letters at their site. The colors > in their starkness and letters' weights as forms, speak more > powerfully to me than than the words alone. > Whe I look at it i think of a poem i wrote for another > Palestinian friend who is known to have been killed on return to homeland. >It ends "to take in darkness/until all that remains/is light". > I hope many many many create many many many forms of > protest rather than critiquing and ridiculing the forms of others > with whom one purports to agree. > > Here, for example, M. Antonin Artaud: "And if there is > still one hellish, truly accursed thing in our time, it is our > artistic dallying with forms, instead of being like victims at the > stake, signaling through the flames." > > Signalling--yes,--victims--no--- > > > >>From: P Backonja >>Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >>To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>Subject: Re: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST >>Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 18:50:47 -0500 >> >>yes, ann. your story in Big Bridge has been interrupted. >> >>the protest works by redirecting ANY and ALL traffic--links from everwhere >>to every poet's work in every issue of Big Bridge--to the very austere >>protest page. >> >>there is nothing "silent" about this. >> >>and though ostensibly "shut down", all these re-directed links "open" to a >>stark message. >> >>it is audacious really, like a protest ought to be. >> >>the people who might complain about it would be the writers and artists >>whose work is being blocked by a message they don't agree with. if there are >>any of these maybe they'll speak up, rather than people worried if the >>editors of Big Bridge are just taking a vacation. > >_________________________________________________________________ >Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's >FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 12:06:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: Guano + Wryt[h]ing Anthology of the Avant-Grotesque Comments: To: WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA Comments: cc: WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit all in ny area yes as cb said catch the french book art show at ny pub library til aug 19 free and a nice free little catalgue those of you can't make it send me 2 bucks postage i'll send ya one wow what a show perfect companion to dada show sd ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 11:53:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit his boll ah her bal l ah our balll uh yer ballllllllll a my blllla thei r bull uah ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 12:31:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Majzels Subject: Re: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20060722095744.0539a8e8@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Interesting that Mark Weiss' objection to the Big Bridge protest actually demonstrates the effectiveness of the gesture, in provoking discussion to begin with, and as an expression of the frustration Mark Weiss professes to feel. Big Bridge has, of course, not shut down; the statement that appears on its website is, in itself, a work of socially engaged art. The absence of the usual poems and articles is part of the work. I may not be entirely happy with the general anti-war statement in itself, but I recognize the effectiveness of the gesture. Waiting for elections has never been and will never be a useful strategy, especially in a closed undemocratic system like the US. Only mass protest that gradually breaks down the social order, that disrupts business as usual can affect any change. The electoral results will follow in the wake of real political action. And mass protest begins with courageous individual gestures by people willing to suspend business as usual, which includes the smooth progress of their individual careers and lives. Short of violent "terrorist" action, any forms that cause discomfort, disruption and provoke thinking and resistance among US citizens (and Canadians now that we're engaged in Afghanistan) is welcome as far as I'm concerned. Robert Majzels On 22-Jul-06, at 10:25 AM, Mark Weiss wrote: > Anny, Michael: Forget the vacation thing, silly on my part. But > look, I get a rather melodramatic email announcing a virtually > invisible (virtual) protest. We all protest in our own ways, I > suppose, but this is like a hunger strike in a kindergarten. Its > only purpose seems to be to declare oneself among the righteous. > That, and to vent the frustration that a lot of us feel. > > It's difficult, given the power of the presidency, to know what to > do before election day, many deaths from now. In poll after poll > the population at large makes clear its opposition to the war in > Iraq to no effect, and it's hard to imagine any US congress voting > to halt arms shipments to Israel. And short of putting in place a > congress that would be willing to make our loan guarantees to > Israel conditional on good behavior I don't see that we can do much > about Israeli policy. > > For a change the images on the evening news (not just on PBS) make > it hard to see what's going on as just a war against those evil > terrorists--the killing or displacement of masses of people who > dress too much like Americans to dismiss as Other might have some > impact on public opinion. And as we get closer to election day that > might have some impact on policy. > > Mark > > > > At 02:29 AM 7/22/2006, you wrote: >> I am surprised by some answers here. Let me explain first that >> technically a >> site is not a blog. When a site, as in this case Big Bridge shuts >> down, it >> does not mean that the editor(s) are on holiday, but that access is >> forbidden to those readers who are interested in getting through >> some pages >> (as I wanted - I haven't got yet to the incredible part dedicated >> to Karl >> Young I was planning for this summer). These readers are faced >> with a black >> page and a protest. I felt this wall when I first saw it, and see >> it again >> every time I get to it. A wall pulled up there for everybody: >> occasional and >> regular readers or contributors, that we should remember, or >> mildly put, >> that we are not the only ones to be shocked. >> >> I find that Michael Rothenberg's position is very strong, and I >> support it >> (as I usually support his choices), even if, as I said, it is >> against my >> immediate interest /or plans. >> >> Good work for the good people behind sites, and especially to M. >> Rothenberg >> and Vernon Frazer! >> >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a >> dancing >> star! >> Friedrich Nietzsche ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 12:46:27 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Switaj Subject: Re: 'Vowels to blame' for German grumpiness In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Apparently, the journalist writing this article fabricated the research. See http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/003374.html On 7/22/06, mIEKAL aND wrote: > > 'Vowels to blame' for German grumpiness > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/895503.stm > > Michael Schumacher: Down in the mouth? > > An American professor has developed a theory that Germans are bad- > tempered because pronouncing German sounds puts a frown on the face. > > Professor David Myers believes that the facial contortions needed to > pronounce vowels modified by the umlaut may be getting the Germans > down in the mouth. > > Chancellor Schroeder: Hard to smile with an umlaut in your name > > The umlaut is the two dots which modify the sound of the vowels a, o > and u - dots which many foreigners omit altogether, but which give > the German language three alternative vowel sounds. > > Saying "u" - one of German's most recognisable sounds - causes the > mouth to turn down. > > But the English sounds of "e" and "ah" - expressions used in smiling > and laughing - have the opposite effect. > > Professor Myers told the Royal Society of Edinburgh on Thursday that > frequent use of the muscles which the brain associates with sadness > can adversely affect a person's mood. > > "Research has shown that the facial expression of a person can affect > how funny they find cartoons," The London Times quotes him as saying. > "Even when speaking, movements of the muscles in the face can change > a person's mood. > > Ex-Chancellor Kohl: Glum over political woes or vowel sounds? > > "This could be a good reason why German people have got a reputation > for being humourless and grumpy," said Professor Myers, who heads > Psychology at Hope College, Michigan. > > He has just finished a sabbatical at St Andrews University which > involved using electrodes to manipulate the muscles of the face - > research which, he said, bore out his theory. > > A spokesperson for the German Embassy said: "We can give no comment > on this as it is too scientific." > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 19:53:30 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20060722115744.0539ef48@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I have always respected your work, and comments. Mine was not addressed to you, I could see the playfulness behind it, care, Anny On 7/22/06, Mark Weiss wrote: > > OK, I might as well offend more people. For me the primary quality of > that banner-headline protest was self-vaunting. Accounts like yours, > based in compassion and loss, are more to the point. The question is > how to keep them flowing beyond our very limited community. Not easy > in a country where almost no one reads even a newspaper. > > Me, I give at the office. Appalled by the attitudes I found towards > Mexico in San Diego, I edited an anthology of poetry from immediately > beyond the border. Not an overtly political act, but hopefully those > who read it had a harder time seeing the next neighborhood over as > merely a source of cheap booze, cheap blowjobs and cheap labor. It > sold well in places devoted to Baja California tourism on the US > side, and in the local art museums, both beyond the choir of the > already convinced. Now I'm doing a Cuban anthology, which won't > satisfy anybody politically who looks for overt content, but which > hopefully will broaden people's understanding. The point is to stop > reducing others to caricatures. > > Maybe I should have plastered the cover of the Baja California book > with a slogan like "read this, it will make you a better person, like > me." I don't think that would have helped the book accomplish even > the little bit that it did. > > Somebody mentioned John Lennon's Give Peace a Chance. It happens that > I was one of 300,000 protestors at the Washington Monument when > Lennon first sang it. A jingle to help rally our troops. Those > rallies happened weekly. It would be nice if something similar > happened now, but I doubt it will unless the draft is brought back, > this time without exemptions for the relatively well-off. > > > At 11:36 AM 7/22/2006, you wrote: > > Yesterday as i do a couple times a week i went by a store run > > by North African friends and a Palestinian partner. A friend of all > > of ours of some years had returned to his family about two months > > ago in Gaza . . . > > Very late last night i returned to find these messages for the > > most part ridiculing an act of protest. > > Since 9/11 often people who agree with the aim of a protest > > will still ridicule it or critique it and find it wanting in some > > way. It is as though there is something embarrasing in protest, > > something from a different time period, best preserved ,analyzed, > > eulogized, canonized in images and words, too messy and time > > consuming for the present to be cool. Or just plain too > > ridiculous--American presidents & governments since Reagan, along > > with tv comics and commentators, have worked tirelessly to create > > an atmosphere in which protest is portrayed as an empty gesture > > made by self serving fools, their self righeousness and > > righteousness the easy butts of smug superior jokes. Ridicule is > > an old technique used in the crushing of political foes. One of > > the attractions of talk radio and the FOX network is hearing forms > > of protest or alternative anythings ridiculed into oblivion--all > > to the benefit of the status quo, if not the increased power of its > > most powerful members, which is really the main objective/result. > > For a long time after 9/11 protest in the "you're either with us or > > against us" atmosphere was easily criticized as un-american or > > lacking in grief for the victims of 9/11 etc. When that began to > > wear off, ridicule began to take its place. > > In the "poetics" community a formalist critique of protest > > takes place. Interestingly, people are more suspicious and cynical > > abt the motives for a thirty day protest than they are of the daily > > "news reports" of events in the Middle East. The criticism of the > > protest in many cases appears to have to do with form--the thirty > > days--form becomes the primary issue, not war or opposition to war, > > a specific war, etc. When the Sam Hamill edited POETS AGAINST THE > > WAR anthology became a surprise hit--"radical" poets Bernstein, > > Silliman, Watten critiqued it. For Bernstein it was all a matter > > of form--the anthology used "normative" language to respond to the > > upcoming war in Iraq rather than a discourse of "ambiguity" > > "complexity" "skepticism" in exploring the ways these norms are > > used to contain dissent. Before you take a 44 magnum marker to > > some cardboard and make a protest poster or grafitti poem or visual > > sign--stop! > >And analyse al the ways what you will write down are basically > >"normative" ( ie "square")--and containing you in repressive old > >school discourse--and write some essays--give some talks at > >conferences-- on strategies for the creation of complex ambiguous > >skepticisms of normative language in making protest > >posters. Meanwhile . . . as the Arab proverb has it, "The dog > >barks, the caravan passes." > > Perhaps if you agree with the views expressed by BIG BRIDGE yet > > have problems with the form in which their protest is expressed, > > organize a different form of protest which shows your solidariy with > theirs. > > . . . no news now for three weeks of our friend and his > > family. Gaza has dropped out of sight in mainstream > > news--meanwhile, the world's largest prison has been reinvaded by > > Israeli tanks, bulldozers, bombs and drones--a drone killed four > > people yesterday. 100 Palestinains at least have died in last three > > weeks. Almost no food, no electricity at all, almost no medecine, > > now way out, nothing--and now the bombing of the water supplies has > > begun. Internationally recognized as a war crime. > > This is the third friend I have known in Milwaukee who > > returned to Palestine to their homeland and families and from > > reports is either known dead or presumed dead. All killed by > > American weapons which the Israelis get basically for free under a > > special program. (They used to sell the excess in > > these arms--making 100% proft--to South Africa under the old white > regime.) > >In the news today--the USA is expediting a big shipment of bombs and > >explosives to Israel, a sign that the bombing wil continue for some > weeks. > > Hopefully you can understand how strange to find these poetics > > messages at nearly 2 am, filled with familiar severe tension of > > combined numbness and rage and grief. Someone was shooting off a > > pistol--a couple shots near the crack houses down the street. Pop! > > pop! From the window you can see a few figures flee for the shadows . . > . > > Billions of tax payer dollars drained from their own country > > and sent to Iraq and Israel--creating more violence at home and > > more abroad. "Death and taxes." Death is our business. Is that > > why protest is ridiculed--because death and taxes are inevitable? > > Again, if it is the form of the protest which bothers you, and > > not the substance, show support for the substance by choosing what > > you think a better way and use that to show solidarity. > > "United we stand, divided we fall"-- > > > > Meanwhile, the deaths of Palestinians go unnoticed and > > unnamed--and for the most part also the ones in neighborhoods like > > ours across the Land of the Free and Home of the Brave. > > As it says in George Orwell's ANIMAL FARM--"all animals are > > created equal, but some are more equal than others". > > > > Thank you to Big Bridge for a non-silent protest of the > > powerful black screen and white letters at their site. The colors > > in their starkness and letters' weights as forms, speak more > > powerfully to me than than the words alone. > > Whe I look at it i think of a poem i wrote for another > > Palestinian friend who is known to have been killed on return to > homeland. > >It ends "to take in darkness/until all that remains/is light". > > I hope many many many create many many many forms of > > protest rather than critiquing and ridiculing the forms of others > > with whom one purports to agree. > > > > Here, for example, M. Antonin Artaud: "And if there is > > still one hellish, truly accursed thing in our time, it is our > > artistic dallying with forms, instead of being like victims at the > > stake, signaling through the flames." > > > > Signalling--yes,--victims--no--- > > > > > > > >>From: P Backonja > >>Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > >>To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >>Subject: Re: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST > >>Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 18:50:47 -0500 > >> > >>yes, ann. your story in Big Bridge has been interrupted. > >> > >>the protest works by redirecting ANY and ALL traffic--links from > everwhere > >>to every poet's work in every issue of Big Bridge--to the very austere > >>protest page. > >> > >>there is nothing "silent" about this. > >> > >>and though ostensibly "shut down", all these re-directed links "open" to > a > >>stark message. > >> > >>it is audacious really, like a protest ought to be. > >> > >>the people who might complain about it would be the writers and artists > >>whose work is being blocked by a message they don't agree with. if there > are > >>any of these maybe they'll speak up, rather than people worried if the > >>editors of Big Bridge are just taking a vacation. > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's > >FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 17:25:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Zimmerman Subject: Re: 'Vowels to blame' for German grumpiness Comments: cc: Daniel Zimmerman MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The Embassy has a devastating spokesman. (ö'll make ya pucker) ~ Dan Zimmerman ----- Original Message ----- From: "mIEKAL aND" To: Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 10:43 AM Subject: 'Vowels to blame' for German grumpiness > 'Vowels to blame' for German grumpiness > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/895503.stm > > Michael Schumacher: Down in the mouth? > > An American professor has developed a theory that Germans are bad- > tempered because pronouncing German sounds puts a frown on the face. > > Professor David Myers believes that the facial contortions needed to > pronounce vowels modified by the umlaut may be getting the Germans down > in the mouth. > > Chancellor Schroeder: Hard to smile with an umlaut in your name > > The umlaut is the two dots which modify the sound of the vowels a, o and > u - dots which many foreigners omit altogether, but which give the German > language three alternative vowel sounds. > > Saying "u" - one of German's most recognisable sounds - causes the mouth > to turn down. > > But the English sounds of "e" and "ah" - expressions used in smiling and > laughing - have the opposite effect. > > Professor Myers told the Royal Society of Edinburgh on Thursday that > frequent use of the muscles which the brain associates with sadness can > adversely affect a person's mood. > > "Research has shown that the facial expression of a person can affect how > funny they find cartoons," The London Times quotes him as saying. > "Even when speaking, movements of the muscles in the face can change a > person's mood. > > Ex-Chancellor Kohl: Glum over political woes or vowel sounds? > > "This could be a good reason why German people have got a reputation for > being humourless and grumpy," said Professor Myers, who heads Psychology > at Hope College, Michigan. > > He has just finished a sabbatical at St Andrews University which involved > using electrodes to manipulate the muscles of the face - research which, > he said, bore out his theory. > > A spokesperson for the German Embassy said: "We can give no comment on > this as it is too scientific." > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 17:30:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adam Morey Subject: Re: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20060721142106.0532ade8@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bah, seems silly and childish, its not making a difference. Besides, people have work published there, thats a lot bullshit. Inconvienience doesn't upset the ones your mad at, it offends those who contribute to you journal. adam > Yeah, that exactly one month thing does look a mite suspicious, like > generating good will for going on vacation. > > As to impact, since I don't know what Big Bridge is and I'm probably > more up on these things than anyone at whom the protest is presumably > aimed, this is pretty much a tree falling in the forest. > > But in the spirit of solidarity, I'm not going to start up the web > page that I wouldn't have started up anyway for at least a month. > > Mark > > At 01:10 PM 7/21/2006, you wrote: >>Quel horseshit. Now is the time to open up, not >>shut down. (Except, of course, for summer >>vacation.) >> >>Hal >> >>"If you have liver disease, tell >>your doctor." >> --TV drug commercial >> >>Halvard Johnson >>================ >>halvard@gmail.com >>halvard@earthlink.net >>http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard >>http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >>http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> >> >> >> >>On Jul 21, 2006, at 12:03 PM, Maria Damon wrote: >> >>>this is v powerful when i visit the website... >>>perhaps others will join in? >>> >>>At 12:57 PM -0400 7/21/06, Vernon Frazer wrote: >>>>BIG BRIDGE WILL SHUT DOWN >>>> >>>> >>>>FROM JULY 20, 2006 THROUGH AUGUST 20, 2006 >>>> >>>> >>>>TO PROTEST ALL WARS >>>> >>>> >>>>AND TO DEMONSTRATE OUR SADNESS AND HORROR >>>> >>>> >>>>AT THE TRAGIC LOSS OF HUMAN LIFE >>>> >>>> >>>>IN THE MIDDLE EAST >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>http://www.bigbridge.org >>>> > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 14:37:58 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST In-Reply-To: <53c2c2de0607211650xe682385sd0c675cffcadc3ea@mail.gmail.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable The ways and means in which the NY Times tilts its editorial hat on any issue (I find) often a mystery. Big Bridge threw its own rock in it's own stream - literally a dam/a blockade - that's obviously provoked folks one way or the other. I don't think Michael is being self-indulgent at all. His shut-down, it seems to me, comes from an acknowledgment of horror - such as the consequences of this war and our implication as US Citizens in the support of maximizing the devastation of Lebanon. There are obviously also other approaches. Yesterday I was cynically speculating that some editor/publisher has no doubt begun to put together a= n anthology of Lebanese-Israeli poems, ones that focus on the interplay of th= e cultures of these two countries. Such an editorial gesture (no matter how well intended) in light of the reality of the Israeli invasion seems, on th= e face of it, so futile, a 'we are but flies to the Gods', i.e. Bush, C. Rice= , Rumsfeld and, whatever I don't know about the leadership of Hezbollah, etc. In terms of these decisions, artists and poets are not permitted to the table. Yet, this morning, I stopped in a Palestinian corner grocery - of which there are many in San Francisco - to buy a New York Times. Not that I neede= d help to see the front page, the owner - a look of disgust on his face - pointed to the photograph of about a dozen wooden coffins leaning against a town wall, each of them a civilian casualty of Israeli bombs. Next to the photograph was the article about this country's rush shipment to Israel of 105,000 pounds of 'precision bombs. This article conjoined somewhat obscenely with the photograph yesterday of young Israeli girls apparently drawing messages on bombs to be aimed at the Lebanese. Whoever the NY Times picture editor - and front page designer - the combination photo and story was a concrete, literal assertion of the fact that the United States is using Israel as a proxy for whatever its interest= s are in the Mid-East (vis-=E0-vis Syria and Iran). Otherwise I assume this kidnapping of the Israeli soldiers could have been easily solved with a prisoner exchange, etc. - and not a full scale "out of proportion war." But more to the point, on a personal level, there it was, point blank, my and our tax dollars used to finance the "precise" bombing and killing of those folks in the coffins on the front page. I am not too knowledgeable about late 1930's history in this country. But the experience with the Palestinian grocer this morning made me imagine and wonder whether or not there were similar scenes among Jewish shop keepers i= n this country, particularly the growing news and awareness of Hitler's concentration camps and the refusal of Roosevelt's Government to acknowledg= e genocide and needs of refugees. Were those Jewish shop keepers - similar to the Palestinian grocer - looking at the WASP and other clientele and desperately wondering why they and the Government were remaining so oblivious to the horror? Yes, given what is going on, I cannot explain, even within myself, what the response and protests to this point are still so vacant. Six years of Bush = - and even with the polls so much against him - there is a sense of amputatio= n on the left (or, at least, the outrage remains buried). What is going to crack it open, I am not sure. Waiting for a Democratic leader with guts still seems the longest shot in town. And we know who owns and controls the major media. Stephen Vincent=20 =20 =20 > yes, ann. your story in Big Bridge has been interrupted. >=20 > the protest works by redirecting ANY and ALL traffic--links from everwher= e > to every poet's work in every issue of Big Bridge--to the very austere > protest page. >=20 > there is nothing "silent" about this. >=20 > and though ostensibly "shut down", all these re-directed links "open" to = a > stark message. >=20 > it is audacious really, like a protest ought to be. >=20 > the people who might complain about it would be the writers and artists > whose work is being blocked by a message they don't agree with. if there = are > any of these maybe they'll speak up, rather than people worried if the > editors of Big Bridge are just taking a vacation. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 18:11:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoff Munsterman Subject: Interesting Small Press I Found MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Interesting Small Press I Found I'll just include the link into the e-mail. http://www.xoxoxpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 23:34:37 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Roger Day Subject: Re: generated / cut-up text In-Reply-To: <002EB051-B1C7-4B78-BE8E-D8BD6C23D68B@mwt.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I agree with miekal in addition, I've used perl scripts implementing markov chains to "scramble" something I've already written. Although strictly speaking it's not cut-up text, I found it interesting: http://www.badstep.net/text/poetry/bristolblue/index.html v http://www.badstep.net/text/poetry/bristolblue1.1/index.html I found the results interesting in parts. I still have the scripts around somewhere if anyone wants Roger On 14/07/06, mIEKAL aND wrote: > I have yet to find a single piece of software which generates > interesting output in itself. A much more fruitful tactic is to use > a cocktail of different techniques & softwares & to not be afraid to > introduce human elements into the mix. We (Xexoxial) published our > first computer cutup in 1982 called Carniverous Equations by Michael > Helsem & as far as I can tell there hasn't been much innovation in > the 25 years since. > > ~mIEKAL > > > On Jul 12, 2006, at 5:58 PM, Tom W. Lewis wrote: > > > I've been doing the paper/scissors routine for nigh-on twenty years... > > my tendency is to find short-cuts (yes), and I'm curious what other > > people on this list use, if that's their thing, for electronic text > > distortion... > > > > I once explained my method to a college friend (not a collage friend), > > and his response was "why are you worrying about jumbling your text -- > > what you write is hard enough to understand as it is." > > > > quick-and-dirty speeds the plough, > > > > tl > > > > > > > -- http://www.badstep.net/ http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ "War is cruelty and you cannot refine it" - Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman, 1864 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 20:21:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Ciccariello Subject: Re: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline You said - "literal assertion of the fact that the United States is using Israel as a proxy for whatever its interests are in the Mid-East (vis-=E0-v= is Syria and Iran). Otherwise I assume this kidnapping of the Israeli soldiers could have been easily solved with a prisoner exchange, etc. - and not a full scale "out of proportion war." But more to the point, on a personal level, there it was, point blank, my and our tax dollars used to finance the "precise" bombing and killing of those folks in the coffins on the front page." This is so clear and to the point Stephen, I join in your outrage. - Peter Ciccariello On 7/22/06, Stephen Vincent wrote: > > The ways and means in which the NY Times tilts its editorial hat on any > issue (I find) often a mystery. Big Bridge threw its own rock in it's own > stream - literally a dam/a blockade - that's obviously provoked folks one > way or the other. I don't think Michael is being self-indulgent at all. > His > shut-down, it seems to me, comes from an acknowledgment of horror - such > as > the consequences of this war and our implication as US Citizens in the > support of maximizing the devastation of Lebanon. > > There are obviously also other approaches. Yesterday I was cynically > speculating that some editor/publisher has no doubt begun to put together > an > anthology of Lebanese-Israeli poems, ones that focus on the interplay of > the > cultures of these two countries. Such an editorial gesture (no matter how > well intended) in light of the reality of the Israeli invasion seems, on > the > face of it, so futile, a 'we are but flies to the Gods', i.e. Bush, C. > Rice, > Rumsfeld and, whatever I don't know about the leadership of Hezbollah, > etc. > In terms of these decisions, artists and poets are not permitted to the > table. > > Yet, this morning, I stopped in a Palestinian corner grocery - of which > there are many in San Francisco - to buy a New York Times. Not that I > needed > help to see the front page, the owner - a look of disgust on his face - > pointed to the photograph of about a dozen wooden coffins leaning against > a > town wall, each of them a civilian casualty of Israeli bombs. Next to the > photograph was the article about this country's rush shipment to Israel o= f > 105,000 pounds of 'precision bombs. This article conjoined somewhat > obscenely with the photograph yesterday of young Israeli girls apparently > drawing messages on bombs to be aimed at the Lebanese. > > Whoever the NY Times picture editor - and front page designer - the > combination photo and story was a concrete, literal assertion of the fact > that the United States is using Israel as a proxy for whatever its > interests > are in the Mid-East (vis-=E0-vis Syria and Iran). Otherwise I assume this > kidnapping of the Israeli soldiers could have been easily solved with a > prisoner exchange, etc. - and not a full scale "out of proportion war." > But > more to the point, on a personal level, there it was, point blank, my and > our tax dollars used to finance the "precise" bombing and killing of thos= e > folks in the coffins on the front page. > > I am not too knowledgeable about late 1930's history in this country. But > the experience with the Palestinian grocer this morning made me imagine > and > wonder whether or not there were similar scenes among Jewish shop keepers > in > this country, particularly the growing news and awareness of Hitler's > concentration camps and the refusal of Roosevelt's Government to > acknowledge > genocide and needs of refugees. Were those Jewish shop keepers - similar > to > the Palestinian grocer - looking at the WASP and other clientele and > desperately wondering why they and the Government were remaining so > oblivious to the horror? > Yes, given what is going on, I cannot explain, even within myself, what > the > response and protests to this point are still so vacant. Six years of Bus= h > - > and even with the polls so much against him - there is a sense of > amputation > on the left (or, at least, the outrage remains buried). What is going to > crack it open, I am not sure. > > Waiting for a Democratic leader with guts still seems the longest shot in > town. And we know who owns and controls the major media. > > Stephen Vincent > > > > > > > > > > > > > yes, ann. your story in Big Bridge has been interrupted. > > > > the protest works by redirecting ANY and ALL traffic--links from > everwhere > > to every poet's work in every issue of Big Bridge--to the very austere > > protest page. > > > > there is nothing "silent" about this. > > > > and though ostensibly "shut down", all these re-directed links "open" t= o > a > > stark message. > > > > it is audacious really, like a protest ought to be. > > > > the people who might complain about it would be the writers and artists > > whose work is being blocked by a message they don't agree with. if ther= e > are > > any of these maybe they'll speak up, rather than people worried if the > > editors of Big Bridge are just taking a vacation. > --=20 http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 20:44:12 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Larissa Shmailo Subject: Less is more: THE FEMINIST POETS IN LOW-CUT BLOUSES JULY 30 BPC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 =20 Sometimes one button less is more . . .=20 THE FEMINIST POETS IN LOW-CUT BLOUSES=20 SUNDAY, JULY 30, 4 PM=20 THE BOWERY POETRY CLUB=20 308 BOWERY BETWEEN HOUSTON AND BLEECKER=20 ACROSS FROM CBGB'S=20 $6=20 INFORMATION: 212-712-9865=20 With=20 Larissa Shmailo=20 Pamela Grossman=20 Jushi=20 Susan Maurer=20 Amy Ouzoonian=20 Barbara Purcell.=20 Special guest hosts: Madeline Artenberg and Iris N. Schwartz=20 About the Feminist Poets: =20 Larissa Shmailo has read with the Black Panthers, for the Writer=E2=80=99s=20= Harvest=20 against Hunger, and national venues to critical kudos. She translated the=20 Russian Futurist opera Victory over the Sun performed at the Brooklyn Acad= emy of=20 Music and internationally. She has been widely published, ranging from =20 Ratapallax to poetz.com to Street News. Her poetry CD, The No-Net World , i= s=20 available at _http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/shmailo_=20 (http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/shmailo) , iTUNES, Tower, and bookstores.=20 Madeline Artenberg performs frequently in NYC, including at the Bowery=20 Poetry Club, backed by David Amram. Her work appears in print and online =20 journals, such as Absinthe Literary Review, she has garnered poetry awards=20= and her=20 book Awakened (with poems by Iris N. Schwartz) was published by Rogue Schol= ars=20 Press, April 2006. =20 Pamela Grossman's poetry has been published in Mudfish, Lungfull, The=20 Elliott Review, and many other journals. She's also a contributing arts wri= ter=20 for Seed magazine and an somewhat-more-than-occasional music writer for the= =20 Village Voice. Her first poetry collection, Archaology, is back on the dat= ing=20 scene after a long-term romance with publisher hit unreconcilable commitmen= t=20 issues, though the collection and the publisher remain good friends. =20 Jushi, "Interpressionist=E2=80=9D, is a dancer, actress, choreographer, bas= sist,=20 teacher, story teller, and poet. She has performed at the Theater For the N= ew=20 City, The Knitting Factory, La Mama's La Galleria, The Public Theater, Nati= onal=20 Public T.V., _Women In Limbo, _ (http://www.womeninlimbo.com/) and with he= r=20 own band in _Tokyo, Japan_ (http://www.cftech.com/jushi/Lessons.html) . She= =20 made history when she became the first woman to play bass with the reknowne= d=20 and, until then, all male Sun Ra Arkestra.=20 Susan Maurer is the author By the Blue Light of the Morning Glory, Linea= r=20 Art. She has been in over a hundred different journals and anthologies (in=20 ten countries) including Literary Imagination, Cross Connect, Virginia=20 Quarterly Review, Orbis, The Unbearables' Help Yourself!, Autonomedia, and=20= Soft=20 Skull's Off the Cuffs. She has been nominated for a Pushcart by three and h= as=20 new chapbook with Mark Sonnefield published by Marymark Press, 2005. =20 Amy Ouzoonian is editor of the recently released anthology In the Arms of= =20 Words: Poems for Disaster Relief (Foothills Publishing/Sherman Asher Press)= =20 and the critically acclaimed anthology, Skyscrapers, Taxis and Tampons, (Fl= y=20 By Night Press 1999). She is a poet, playwright and editor for A Gatherin= g=20 of the Tribes magazine. Ouzoonian is the publisher and founder of Lock n' L= oad=20 Press (June 2005) and the author of a book of poems, Your Pill (Foothills =20 Publishing 2004). Ouzoonian lives and writes in Brooklyn, NY.=20 Barbara Purcell was raised in Northern New Jersey. She graduated with a=20 B.A. from Skidmore College in 2001. Her work has appeared in Tribes Magazi= ne =20 and Readingground, and she has performed in various venues in New York City= ,=20 and abroad including Denmark , Scotland , and Australia. Black Ice: Poem= s=20 (Fly by Night Press) is her first book. She currently resides in Manhattan= .=20 =20 Iris N. Schwartz=E2=80=99s book of poetry with Madeline Artenberg, Awakened= , was=20 published by Rogue Scholars Press. Other poetry has been anthologized, and=20= has=20 appeared or is forthcoming in journals such as Alimentum and Mobius. Her=20 fiction has been anthologized most recently in Stirring Up A Storm. Iris st= udied=20 voice with New York City Opera singer Myrna Reynolds.=20 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 21:42:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dave Subject: Re: generated / cut-up text In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I also agree. To me as a computer dude I wanted to play with it and maybe use the computer to remove the drudge part. But, in art, it's the jaggy edges the rough parts that make the art what it is. Machine generated does not make it to me. dave -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Roger Day Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 6:35 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: generated / cut-up text I agree with miekal in addition, I've used perl scripts implementing markov chains to "scramble" something I've already written. Although strictly speaking it's not cut-up text, I found it interesting: http://www.badstep.net/text/poetry/bristolblue/index.html v http://www.badstep.net/text/poetry/bristolblue1.1/index.html I found the results interesting in parts. I still have the scripts around somewhere if anyone wants Roger On 14/07/06, mIEKAL aND wrote: > I have yet to find a single piece of software which generates > interesting output in itself. A much more fruitful tactic is to use > a cocktail of different techniques & softwares & to not be afraid to > introduce human elements into the mix. We (Xexoxial) published our > first computer cutup in 1982 called Carniverous Equations by Michael > Helsem & as far as I can tell there hasn't been much innovation in > the 25 years since. > > ~mIEKAL > > > On Jul 12, 2006, at 5:58 PM, Tom W. Lewis wrote: > > > I've been doing the paper/scissors routine for nigh-on twenty years... > > my tendency is to find short-cuts (yes), and I'm curious what other > > people on this list use, if that's their thing, for electronic text > > distortion... > > > > I once explained my method to a college friend (not a collage friend), > > and his response was "why are you worrying about jumbling your text -- > > what you write is hard enough to understand as it is." > > > > quick-and-dirty speeds the plough, > > > > tl > > > > > > > -- http://www.badstep.net/ http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ "War is cruelty and you cannot refine it" - Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman, 1864 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 22:10:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit What a bunch of crap this whole discussion is. We're sitting around discussing the "Poetics" and "Value of the artistic statement" about some dumb website that I'd never read before this point deciding that replacing itself with a big black page with a statement of it's politics in some way had anything at all to do with anything. This sort of self-congradulating nonsense is not just ineffective, it is the SOURCE of what you are protesting. Protests like this, in effect, say "I as an individual am making myself feel better about injustice in the world." and I'm sorry, but that sort of act is cowardly bullshit pandering to an idea of political conviction qua fashionability that, frankly, fucking disgusts me. If you're really that upset about what's going on, which I doubt, go blow something up. Organize a group of people to block a freeway during rush hour. Go hand out information leaflets on your lunch hour to people on the streets, do something that has some impact beyond your own quiet little upper middle class white college educated coterie faux radicals whose self-inflicted impotence has doomed them to continually spewing a bunch of crap like "Poets against the war," to cite a perfect example of preaching to the choir someone else has already brought up, which only serves to give the talk radio and FoxNEWS talking heads more examples of ineffective dumb liberal nonsense to point at and ridicule. What does the right do when they're pissed off about something? They firebomb abortion clinics, they write legislation that they know will fail and try to push it through anyway, they write "contracts with america" and take control of the political debate by getting their wealthy allies to fund think tanks to support a cadre of well-spoken, highly educated pundit shock troops capable of making coherent, lucid policy statements anywhere in the country at a moments. What does the left do? We cry, we talk about the great protests of the past, and we write poetry about how fucking sad we are, then make obtuse mandarin gestures like the shutting down of Big Bridge. Don't get me wrong, I'm no less guilty of this than anyone else. I haven't done anything remotely political since I marched in protest before the beginning of the Iraq war. It was the inneffectiveness, the lameness, the stupidness of that action that doomed it to failure. Why is that progressives can get together and do something futile and dumb, but can't get together to do something useful, like organize laborers in third world countries making our nikes, or push into office reasonable political candidates with strong beliefs about progressive issues, rather than middle of the road neo-liberals and even conservatives like Hilary Clinton, Joe Lieberman, and, judging by his voting record so far, Barak Obama, the great progressive hope? I don't know why that is. I do know that I'm broke. That I have bills to pay. That I have goals in my life that have nothing to do with Palestine or transjordan. Does my humanity make me feel like a shitheel for the fact that my tax dollars have been translated into blowing up lebanese children? You're damn right it does. But I'm not going to do those kids the disrespect of pretending like making a bunch of empty pseudo-artsy gestures does anything whatsoever to alleviate their suffering. I'm not going to show anybody the poetry I've been writing about Beirut and Hizbollah because it doesn't do those kids a damn bit of good. And to be completely honest, I wish i had the courage of a Cesar Chavez, a Che Guevarra, a Martin Luther King Jr, or a Thich Quang Duc, or a Rachel Corrie God rest her brave soul. But I don't. I'm a coward. I'll march if someone says "March today, show up" I'll vote for progressive candidates, I'll give money to amnesty international and the ACLU when they ask me for it. I subscribe to mother jones and do my best to read international newspapers. But i'm not enough of a fool to not recognize the cowardice in this, the fact that these are things I do because I'm afraid to go back to college, get a nursing degree, then go work for Doctors without Borders or the international Red Cross/Red Crescent. I don't spend my free hours learning to speak Farsi or Arabic so that I can go to the middle east with humanitarian aid organization and actually DO something worthwhile. These are options that every single person on this list defending this bullshit shut down protest as something noble and valiant has open to them, and I don't see any of you doing them, and that makes you all cowards just like me. So at least have the decency to shut the fuck up and feel bad about it, rather than pretending all this pretty talk makes the least bit of difference to poor children suffering the world over so that we can wear cheap clothes that weren't made by anyone we know, eat organically grown produce in cute little overpriced bistros, and drink gallons of over priced bad coffee at the corner espresso stand. At least do the people making the real sacrifices and doing the real hard work so that we can sit around and bicker about philosophy and advertise our blogs and poetry readings the honor and justice to recognize that you aren't one of them, you're never going to be, and that your petty little attempts to feel better about it aren't really worth bragging about in public. At least recognize that we're all the same shitheel in the same sinking ship and don't try to grab hold of the moral life preserver that the people who are really making a difference have built for themselves from their own sweat and sacrifice. It's fucking tacky. Stephen Vincent wrote: > The ways and means in which the NY Times tilts its editorial hat on any > issue (I find) often a mystery. Big Bridge threw its own rock in it's own > stream - literally a dam/a blockade - that's obviously provoked folks one > way or the other. I don't think Michael is being self-indulgent at all. His > shut-down, it seems to me, comes from an acknowledgment of horror - such as > the consequences of this war and our implication as US Citizens in the > support of maximizing the devastation of Lebanon. > > There are obviously also other approaches. Yesterday I was cynically > speculating that some editor/publisher has no doubt begun to put together an > anthology of Lebanese-Israeli poems, ones that focus on the interplay of the > cultures of these two countries. Such an editorial gesture (no matter how > well intended) in light of the reality of the Israeli invasion seems, on the > face of it, so futile, a 'we are but flies to the Gods', i.e. Bush, C. Rice, > Rumsfeld and, whatever I don't know about the leadership of Hezbollah, etc. > In terms of these decisions, artists and poets are not permitted to the > table. > > Yet, this morning, I stopped in a Palestinian corner grocery - of which > there are many in San Francisco - to buy a New York Times. Not that I needed > help to see the front page, the owner - a look of disgust on his face - > pointed to the photograph of about a dozen wooden coffins leaning against a > town wall, each of them a civilian casualty of Israeli bombs. Next to the > photograph was the article about this country's rush shipment to Israel of > 105,000 pounds of 'precision bombs. This article conjoined somewhat > obscenely with the photograph yesterday of young Israeli girls apparently > drawing messages on bombs to be aimed at the Lebanese. > > Whoever the NY Times picture editor - and front page designer - the > combination photo and story was a concrete, literal assertion of the fact > that the United States is using Israel as a proxy for whatever its interests > are in the Mid-East (vis-à-vis Syria and Iran). Otherwise I assume this > kidnapping of the Israeli soldiers could have been easily solved with a > prisoner exchange, etc. - and not a full scale "out of proportion war." But > more to the point, on a personal level, there it was, point blank, my and > our tax dollars used to finance the "precise" bombing and killing of those > folks in the coffins on the front page. > > I am not too knowledgeable about late 1930's history in this country. But > the experience with the Palestinian grocer this morning made me imagine and > wonder whether or not there were similar scenes among Jewish shop keepers in > this country, particularly the growing news and awareness of Hitler's > concentration camps and the refusal of Roosevelt's Government to acknowledge > genocide and needs of refugees. Were those Jewish shop keepers - similar to > the Palestinian grocer - looking at the WASP and other clientele and > desperately wondering why they and the Government were remaining so > oblivious to the horror? > Yes, given what is going on, I cannot explain, even within myself, what the > response and protests to this point are still so vacant. Six years of Bush - > and even with the polls so much against him - there is a sense of amputation > on the left (or, at least, the outrage remains buried). What is going to > crack it open, I am not sure. > > Waiting for a Democratic leader with guts still seems the longest shot in > town. And we know who owns and controls the major media. > > Stephen Vincent > > > > > > > > > > > > >>yes, ann. your story in Big Bridge has been interrupted. >> >>the protest works by redirecting ANY and ALL traffic--links from everwhere >>to every poet's work in every issue of Big Bridge--to the very austere >>protest page. >> >>there is nothing "silent" about this. >> >>and though ostensibly "shut down", all these re-directed links "open" to a >>stark message. >> >>it is audacious really, like a protest ought to be. >> >>the people who might complain about it would be the writers and artists >>whose work is being blocked by a message they don't agree with. if there are >>any of these maybe they'll speak up, rather than people worried if the >>editors of Big Bridge are just taking a vacation. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 22:43:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST In-Reply-To: <44C304C6.30102@myuw.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable actually, about 10 years ago, something that really changed the = aesthetics of websites was changing to a black background in order to protest censorship (there was also a less successful "blue ribbon" campaign) what happened? well, light text on a dark background is easier to read, = but slightly more difficult to format correctly to print out from the web; = also, the more severe censorship -- now online -- has gone forward unchecked = -- there are lots of various reasons for this, but basically because porn = sites and worms became paralleled... Catherine=20 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 00:46:31 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit do the israelis lebanese bush and millions beside we listers recognize this gesture ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 23:09:32 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Catherine, Who told you that light text on a dark background is easier to read? = I'd like to read that report.=20 That contradicts dozens of tests I had conducted while I was employed. = The findings then were: Black ink on a white (but not stark white) background was far more = easily read. Further, those studies found sans serif type far superior to serif text = as far as readability was concerned. For my former employer, I spent considerable money on that research, = millions actually. I doubt they'll share the findings with us, but I = can assure you, the studies were truly independent, non-biased, and in = scientific terms nearly pure. =20 I have in my records, some of the original notes from some of the = studies. Two other points that might be worth noting here: * people reading light text on a dark background monitor experience = eye fatigue more quickly * readers are more easily confused reading script or Italic fonts =20 If you are interested in putting your employees (or your students) to = sleep quickly, bring up a dark green screen and use a crisp yellow tone = to highlight your Edwardian script text.... Alex=20 P.S. Even the colored inks (thank you USA Today) tend to be far more = tiring than the black on white in the daily news. =20 Oh, and formatting on the screen of a monitor has no bearing on the = data...that's just a programmer's job. Believe me, if one were more = labor costly than the other, you'd be using the cheaper...it's called = profit margin. =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Catherine Daly=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 10:43 PM Subject: Re: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST actually, about 10 years ago, something that really changed the = aesthetics of websites was changing to a black background in order to protest censorship (there was also a less successful "blue ribbon" campaign) what happened? well, light text on a dark background is easier to = read, but slightly more difficult to format correctly to print out from the web; = also, the more severe censorship -- now online -- has gone forward unchecked = -- there are lots of various reasons for this, but basically because porn = sites and worms became paralleled... Catherine=20 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 23:31:22 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: black/white background In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit personally, i find a black background and off-white text easier to read. looking at a white screen can be physically painful to me: too bright, highly radiated. that's why i use a black background on my site, usually. also, when you do use color amid a black background (in graphics, not text), the combo of color and black background can somehow give the impression of the color being lit from within, sort of stained-glass-like. whereas a white background dominates the color of the graphics and detracts from the energy of the graphics. not scientific but i've been looking at monitors way too much for years. ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 23:50:16 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: black/white background MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable yes, Jim, but you are one of a study of one...have you color = deficiencies? are you prejudiced in some unknown way to specific colors? = have you a pre-conceived view of the "moral" value of "black" versus = "white"? etc. etc.=20 Also, your personal views of the use of color are interesting, but not = necessarily representative of the mass audience. =20 Among a focus group of say, 6 rooms of 20 viewers per room, would your = views represent the majority or the minority? More specifically, you = are 1 of a 100,000,000 readers. Granted, you are an important personae, = but the fraction still stands, undisputed. =20 Your response suggests to this researcher that you fall into that group = of folks who believe their personal opinion represents the majority = simply because it's the view they hold. Unfortunately, research = supports exactly the opposite: those who hold that their opinion is = 'the' opinion tend to fall into the fewer than .02% of the minority, = rather than the .51% of any majority. =20 But, Jim, don't be dismayed by that point. I'm there with you. And the = hardest thing I had to learn in my former job was: nobody cared what my = thoughts were. They only cared what the majority's view held.=20 alex =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Jim Andrews=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 11:31 PM Subject: black/white background personally, i find a black background and off-white text easier to = read. looking at a white screen can be physically painful to me: too bright, highly radiated. that's why i use a black background on my site, = usually. also, when you do use color amid a black background (in graphics, not = text), the combo of color and black background can somehow give the = impression of the color being lit from within, sort of stained-glass-like. whereas a = white background dominates the color of the graphics and detracts from the = energy of the graphics. not scientific but i've been looking at monitors way too much for = years. ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 00:45:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: black/white background In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit on the sort of site i do i have to go with what feels right to me. it's all about subjective experience. but readability is a big concern for me. so is design. and emotional tone. and accessibility. and interactive interest. and whether it works at different resolutions and on different browsers and different operating systems. Also, a white monitor during daylight is easier to look at than a white monitor at night. if you look at interesting art sites on the web, you won't find a lot of white backgrounds. this is not simply to be arty but to achieve a look and experience that is more pleasurable than what you normally get with a white background. haven't you experienced eye pain at looking at a monitor's white background at night? this is not the case with a black background. but if the contrast between the black background and the text is not high enough, yes, that can be hard to read, during the daytime. also, note that i said "personally". so i'm not sure what gives you the impression that i feel my views represent the majority. but there are far too many variables involving the type of information presented to conclude that a white background is always more readable. the range of types of information displayable on a monitor ranges from simple email to animated interactive work to video to development environments such as Director, etc. there are too many variations for even a million dollars to decide the issue. ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 04:00:08 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jill Stengel Subject: israel, not so simple MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i mostly delete my poetics digests of late, as i'm barely able to keep up with my life, forget about the poetics list. but i happened to look at the most recent digest tonight/this morning, and i can't be silent about what i see. i don't know if i'm the only person who is willing to state something other than bad israel--maybe i am, i don't know--i don't have time to look over all the recent digests. but really--don't you think it's more complex than this? some thoughts: i am against war, i am against wanton killing. i do not support the destruction of lebanon. i do not support the destruction of israel. i do support a jewish homeland, in a historically jewish land. i do support israel's stated aim of a lebanese-controlled border. lebanon is supposed to be controlling its own border, according to a u.n. resolution from 2004. hezbollah, the current border patrol, funded largely by syria and iran, publicly states their desire for israel's destruction. most american people don't know the history of israel. many don't know the history of the jewish people. and i mean HISTORY, not (just) the holocaust, which counts for history in the minds of many. think thousands of years--the jewish calendar is in year 5766. the united states is 230 years old. thousands of years younger than the jewish people, israel, the whole "middle-east" region. it is convenient to think of israel as an arm of the u.s. government. it is less convenient to think of an entire region wanting to destroy a land and a people. maybe the recent comments from iran's government, the ones about the destruction of israel, are easy to ignore if you think of israel as equivalent to american imperialism, instead of a historical homeland for people who have been persecuted for thousands of years. maybe it's easy to think imperialism bad, civilians good, so bad israel, good lebanon. unfortunately, wretchedly, the citizens of lebanon have hezbollah implanted into their civilian areas. bad israel, good hezbollah? people have been trying to eradicate the jewish people for thousands of years. it is not a simple history, it is not a simple place, it is not a simple region, there are no simple answers. i'm hopeful that this email will cause some thoughts, but i can't help but think that most people don't really want to question. people seem to want simple answers in tidy packages. hate this, love that, check this box, leave this one blank. i refuse to believe in such simplicity. i just can't. i won't. this whole mess is devastating. i hope for an end to the destruction, the loss of lives, the tearing apart of countries. "give peace a chance" ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 01:56:02 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: israel, not so simple In-Reply-To: <4f9.3807c1c.31f48688@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jill, I think it's a huge mistake to conflate modern Israel with either biblical Israel or the jewish ethnicity. modern Israel did not exist before 1948 and the fact of the matter is that Israel has as much right to exist as does the current non-existent palestinian state, and if we're talking about strictly historical grounds rather than who was given what tract of land by God at what point in the dim past, possibly the palestinian state, consisting of the descendents of the residents of palestine under turkish and british rule, has even more right. And yet modern Israel continues to function as if this were not the case. To challenge the behavior of Israel, which at this point in history has become an oppressive right wing state as bad as South Africa was under apartheid, if not worse, is not to challenge the rights of jews to live there, particularly those who were born there. Unfortunately, the modern state of Israel has chosen to side with the religious fanatics who insist on living in the settlements beyond israel's historical borders, they have chosen to continue to hold the west bank and gaza, and they have continued to push the palestinian refugees, many of whom were forcibly evicted from their rightful property historically speaking, into other arab nations, which arab nations, not immune to either anti-semitism, nor teh brutality of dictatorial control, don't want them. Given that on both sides, the factions use religious terminology in their propaganda, it's not unlikely that various groups are going to be calling for other various groups destruction. The fact of the matter is that under Syrian rule, Israel has had less trouble with Hezbollah than prior to Syrian occupation. At the same time, Israel continues to occupy Shabaa Farms and the Golan Heights. the fact that when Israel takes land, they rarely give it back, and the fact that the israeli government continues to play the "Arabs just hate jews" card that you are trying to play here, is the reason why Hezbollah (not Lebanon or the lebanese in general, who are the victims of Israel's current actions) continues to want Israel wiped from the map. Put yourself in the place of a goat herder displaced by Israeli tanks and prohibited from returning to land that has belonged to your people since before the destruction of the second temple. wouldn't you want that goverment gone? but no, they want the destruction of the jews you say. So therefore Israel is justified in carpet bombing southern Lebanon? you say "unfortunately, wretchedly, the citizens of Lebanon have hezbollah implanted into their civilian areas. bad Israel, good hezbollah?" and miss the point that Hezbollah is a guerilla movement because Israel outmatches them. why do they outmatch them? because of your tax dollars. whose fault then is it that the Israelis are blowing up hundreds of innocents from the air because hezbollah wanted three of their people released from prison and killed a few israeli soldiers and kidnapped a couple more? That's right, it's your fault. and mine. you're damn right, bad Israel good hezbollah. Were i living in southern Lebanon, i'd hope i would be fighting the israeli occupation too, but i doubt it because i continue to be dismayed at my own perpetual impotence in the face of injustice in the world. Even more than bad Israel, bad us for creating Israel. Bad us for supporting the state of Israel unconditionally and letting things get this bad. bad us for not fighting hard enough to keep the neo-cons out of power. bad us for ceding control of our government to corporate forces who need a foothold of sympathetic western thinkers in the middle east. bad us for missing the opportunity presented by the collapse of the soviet union to work to restructure the territorial disputes that we and they had encouraged during the cold war. Bad us for equating our national interest with economic rather than humanitarian concerns. Bad us for thinking ethnic cleansing is bad proportionate to how much those being cleansed are like us. And bad us for letting people like you continue to justify one oppressive act on the part of Israel by citing the historical oppression of the jewish people. I for one am not going to allow such statements go unchallenged anymore. that's something my cowardice doesn't keep me from doing. I know that jews have been persecuted, and i know there is a claim that states that the jewish diaspora has a right to the land given to them by God after moses left Egypt. I fail to see how either of those facts make the mechanized mass slaughter of civilians in southern Lebanon anything other than an outrage, and i don't see any reason for bringing it up other than to try to generate sympathy for the people doing the slaughtering. you pay lip service to the idea that it's a complex situation that requires a complex solution, but then criticize us, the cowards on the list for peeping out of our comfortable hidy holes and daring to say that yes, Israel is wrong for doing what it is doing. No one on this list has said anything about supporting the destruction of Israel or the killing of Israelis, and yet you raise this as a straw man argument in order to make the same "you're either with Israel or you're an antisemite" position that is precisely the sort of simplistic right wing view of the Mideast problem that you're claiming to be critical of. Such positions are exactly the sort of thinking that the Israeli state and the right wing ideologues who run it are banking on in order to get away with this terrible crime they are committing. I know that they will get away with it, i know arguing with you about it won't change anything, i know that i am a cipher in this and nothing I can say will make a difference. Still, i'm saying it any way because i'm tired of people not saying it. Jill Stengel wrote: > i mostly delete my poetics digests of late, as i'm barely able to keep up > with my life, forget about the poetics list. but i happened to look at the most > recent digest tonight/this morning, and i can't be silent about what i see. i > don't know if i'm the only person who is willing to state something other > than bad israel--maybe i am, i don't know--i don't have time to look over all > the recent digests. but really--don't you think it's more complex than this? > > some thoughts: > > > i am against war, i am against wanton killing. > > i do not support the destruction of lebanon. > > i do not support the destruction of israel. > > i do support a jewish homeland, in a historically jewish land. > > > i do support israel's stated aim of a lebanese-controlled border. > > lebanon is supposed to be controlling its own border, according to a u.n. > resolution from 2004. > > hezbollah, the current border patrol, funded largely by syria and iran, > publicly states their desire for israel's destruction. > > > > > most american people don't know the history of israel. many don't know the > history of the jewish people. and i mean HISTORY, not (just) the holocaust, > which counts for history in the minds of many. think thousands of years--the > jewish calendar is in year 5766. > > the united states is 230 years old. thousands of years younger than the > jewish people, israel, the whole "middle-east" region. > > it is convenient to think of israel as an arm of the u.s. government. > > it is less convenient to think of an entire region wanting to destroy a land > and a people. > > maybe the recent comments from iran's government, the ones about the > destruction of israel, are easy to ignore if you think of israel as equivalent to > american imperialism, instead of a historical homeland for people who have been > persecuted for thousands of years. > > maybe it's easy to think imperialism bad, civilians good, so bad israel, > good lebanon. unfortunately, wretchedly, the citizens of lebanon have hezbollah > implanted into their civilian areas. bad israel, good hezbollah? > > > > people have been trying to eradicate the jewish people for thousands of > years. > > it is not a simple history, it is not a simple place, it is not a simple > region, there are no simple answers. > > i'm hopeful that this email will cause some thoughts, but i can't help but > think that most people don't really want to question. people seem to want > simple answers in tidy packages. hate this, love that, check this box, leave this > one blank. > > i refuse to believe in such simplicity. i just can't. i won't. > > > this whole mess is devastating. > > i hope for an end to the destruction, the loss of lives, the tearing apart > of countries. > > > "give peace a chance" ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 07:29:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST Comments: To: Jason Quackenbush In-Reply-To: <44C304C6.30102@myuw.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > ... Why is that > progressives can get together and do something futile and dumb, but > can't get together to do something useful ... Because it's way easier to do something futile and dumb. It takes an enormous amount of work to organize an effective political campaign. Phone calls. Mail. Door-to-door walking and talking. Raising money. Keeping track of money. Spending money wisely. It's instantly hierarchical -- someone has to be able to deposit and write checks. That someone's acts and speech are instantly subject to more serious scrutiny than the opposition's -- because it's right there right now and it impacts whether there's free coffee or not, and the like. As a result, even when liberals and progressives actually do get together with serious intent their predilection for talking rather than doing gets in the way, and they talk their initiatives to death. Should we be organizing third world laborers in Indonesia or Guam? Malay or Burma? Should we call it Burma or Myanmar? Feh. Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 08:22:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Waber Subject: x365 on the radio Comments: To: announce MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Today "around noon" (EST) PBS station WVIA will be broadcasting an interview about the x365 project: http://www.logolalia.com/40x365/ To listen, please visit: The stream (for WinAmp, iTunes or mplayer, etc.): http://pubint.ic.llnwd.net/stream/pubint_wvi More information if you're new to streaming audio: http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/wvia/ppr/index.shtml Regards, Dan ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 08:32:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Justice is what is needed in Israel and the Middle East In-Reply-To: <44C339A2.9080303@myuw.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lets be frank, people of the Jewish faith which arose with Abraham have been victims of great persecution in history, but no worse persecution than other groups for example victims of the African Slave trade, Armenians, Greeks in Anatolia, Poles in Poland under the Russians and the Germans, Tibetans, Africans all over Africa and of course Native Americans and Indig. Australians. The difference is that Israel has in its history the fact that Yahweh, according to the Book of Genesis, gave the land as a covenant to the Jewish people and Zionism is based on the notion that the land of Israel is the homeland of the Jews and this comes from God. Many Christians especially those who support our 'president'believe this as well and hope the world will end and that Israel is part of prophecy. There is a millenial sense here that is not rational. When you interject Religion and divine commands into a situation you have real problems and this is the world we are now living in. Hezbollah and Hamas are Reactions to the creation of the State of Israel. I am not arguing here that Israel does not have the right to exist-it does- but since 1948 over 4 million Palestians have been expelled from their homes. The Christian population of Palestine that was over 600,000 in 1948 with towns dating from the time of Christ is now less than 50,000 and over 1200 Palestian towns are no longer on the map with over 6000 mosques some over 1400 years old destroyed or abandoned. This did not occur because the Palestinians wanted to leave they were expelled. In Lebanon a nation that until 1950 had a harmonious existance with 40% of the Population Christian and 60% Muslim with real prosperity and a middle class but the Middle East Crisis has resulted in a destroyed Lebanon- with millions who have either died or immigrated or live as refugees. Now in Iraq the same forces- violence and Extremism are filling that nations void with religion based extremism. In the end not one of the parties really believes in peace- or Justice. They believe in righting wrongs regardless of who is hurt. The Israelis like to bring up the Holocaust which was a horror in fact members of my family died in he Holocaust but this was a horror not perpetrated by Arabs, in fact it was done by Europeans and with aquiescence of Americans. Why are Arabs asked to pay for this sin? In the end there is a cycle of violence here that allows extremists to thrive when what we need is diplomacy and rationalism. Israel cannot continue to oppress the Palestinians the way they do and not expect violence and Arab and Muslim extremist groups cannot continue to do Terrorism without their being consequences so where does the violence end? I think it ends with the realization that God is not part of the solution. I write this as a believer but our global society should be based on universal human rights and that means that nations cannot be based in divine gifts (Israel's Covenant) or Holy War (Jihad) but in the value of each human person to attain justice. I say Fuck peace in Israel and say lets start talking about Justice which is better than peace. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 10:41:53 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: israel, not so simple MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain to which one might well add that Israel is in open volation of any number of UN resolutions and international law on the subject of building permanent settlements and laying claim to lands occupied in war -- and one might well make a distinction between the idea of a home for Jews in lands they had historically populated and a Jewish state -- Under the Law of Return, any Jew anywhere in the world can go to Israel and become a citizen -- which sounds fairly reasonable until you add that no Arab whose family once lived in what is now Israel is accorded that same right -- Indeed, Palestinians' claims to their own right of return have been ruled off the table by both Israel and the US government -- and Yes -- Not many Americans know the history of Israel -- And I dare say even fewer know the history of the region and the history of its Arab populations -- And however much one may deplore the actions of Hezbollah (which we shouldn't need reminding didn't exist until Israel invaded Lebanon in the 80s -- Israel's plan to "clear out" the PLO from Lebanon then leaves us where we are now -- I shudder to think what will come from the plan to "clear out" Hezbollah now) the fact is that Israel, pointing to the existence of a UN Resolution, has unilaterally invaded a sovreign nation without UN authorisation (sound familiar?) -- And what is especially galling is that the Israeli government spokepeople keep getting in front of cameras and declaring that they are doing the Lebanese people a favor -- I have now heard this repeated at least fifteen times -- this from the same government that promised just days ago to put Lebanon back fifty years -- and judging from the orgy of destruction we see on our televisions, it appears they are succeeding in that aim. On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 04:00:08, Jill Stengel wrote: > i mostly delete my poetics digests of late, as i'm barely able to keep up > with my life, forget about the poetics list. but i happened to look at the most > recent digest tonight/this morning, and i can't be silent about what i see. i > don't know if i'm the only person who is willing to state something other > than bad israel--maybe i am, i don't know--i don't have time to look over all > the recent digests. but really--don't you think it's more complex than this? > > some thoughts: > > > i am against war, i am against wanton killing. > > i do not support the destruction of lebanon. > > i do not support the destruction of israel. > > i do support a jewish homeland, in a historically jewish land. > > > i do support israel's stated aim of a lebanese-controlled border. > > lebanon is supposed to be controlling its own border, according to a u.n. > resolution from 2004. > > hezbollah, the current border patrol, funded largely by syria and iran, > publicly states their desire for israel's destruction. > > > > > most american people don't know the history of israel. many don't know the > history of the jewish people. and i mean HISTORY, not (just) the holocaust, > which counts for history in the minds of many. think thousands of years--the > jewish calendar is in year 5766. > > the united states is 230 years old. thousands of years younger than the > jewish people, israel, the whole "middle-east" region. > > it is convenient to think of israel as an arm of the u.s. government. > > it is less convenient to think of an entire region wanting to destroy a land > and a people. > > maybe the recent comments from iran's government, the ones about the > destruction of israel, are easy to ignore if you think of israel as equivalent to > american imperialism, instead of a historical homeland for people who have been > persecuted for thousands of years. > > maybe it's easy to think imperialism bad, civilians good, so bad israel, > good lebanon. unfortunately, wretchedly, the citizens of lebanon have hezbollah > implanted into their civilian areas. bad israel, good hezbollah? > > > > people have been trying to eradicate the jewish people for thousands of > years. > > it is not a simple history, it is not a simple place, it is not a simple > region, there are no simple answers. > > i'm hopeful that this email will cause some thoughts, but i can't help but > think that most people don't really want to question. people seem to want > simple answers in tidy packages. hate this, love that, check this box, leave this > one blank. > > i refuse to believe in such simplicity. i just can't. i won't. > > > this whole mess is devastating. > > i hope for an end to the destruction, the loss of lives, the tearing apart > of countries. > > > "give peace a chance" > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 07:48:35 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Diane DiPrima Subject: Re: black/white background In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Alas, For what it's worth, this person wit 72 year old eyes just goes away when the site she's accessed features dark background and colored type - too much of a struggle to read. D. di P. > From: alexander saliby > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 23:50:16 -0700 > To: > Subject: Re: black/white background > > yes, Jim, but you are one of a study of one...have you color deficiencies? are > you prejudiced in some unknown way to specific colors? have you a > pre-conceived view of the "moral" value of "black" versus "white"? etc. etc. > > Also, your personal views of the use of color are interesting, but not > necessarily representative of the mass audience. > > Among a focus group of say, 6 rooms of 20 viewers per room, would your views > represent the majority or the minority? More specifically, you are 1 of a > 100,000,000 readers. Granted, you are an important personae, but the fraction > still stands, undisputed. > > Your response suggests to this researcher that you fall into that group of > folks who believe their personal opinion represents the majority simply > because it's the view they hold. Unfortunately, research supports exactly the > opposite: those who hold that their opinion is 'the' opinion tend to fall into > the fewer than .02% of the minority, rather than the .51% of any majority. > > But, Jim, don't be dismayed by that point. I'm there with you. And the > hardest thing I had to learn in my former job was: nobody cared what my > thoughts were. They only cared what the majority's view held. > alex > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jim Andrews > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 11:31 PM > Subject: black/white background > > > personally, i find a black background and off-white text easier to read. > looking at a white screen can be physically painful to me: too bright, > highly radiated. that's why i use a black background on my site, usually. > also, when you do use color amid a black background (in graphics, not text), > the combo of color and black background can somehow give the impression of > the color being lit from within, sort of stained-glass-like. whereas a white > background dominates the color of the graphics and detracts from the energy > of the graphics. > > not scientific but i've been looking at monitors way too much for years. > > ja > http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 08:21:33 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Big Bridge MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hal: I think you're right about the Big Bridge shutdown. Always is the time = to speak up, not shut down. However, Michael has a good heart, did what he felt best, and I respect = him. Best Regards, Joel __________________________________ Joel Weishaus Research Faculty Center for Excellence in Writing Portland State University Portland, Oregon http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 11:28:31 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Ciccariello Subject: Ruins of the mortal lexicon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Ruins of the mortal lexicon http://tinyurl.com/kv9qv -- Peter Ciccariello http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 09:42:22 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: A Little Slice of Summer -- MiPOesias MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Why Settle for Vacation When You Can Adventure? Gina Myers - "Behind Closed Doors" and "House" -- http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/myers_gina.html Grace Cavalieri - "Say What You Will," "The Telephone Stalker Is Head Over Heels in Love," and "Other People's Arms" -- http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/cavalieri_grace.html Benjamin Buchholz - "Between Now and Waking" -- http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/buchholz_benjamim.html Stephani Vaughan - excerpts from a forthcoming novella - http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/vaughan_stephani.html Gina Franco - "middle of our life I came to myself in a dark," "passed over our shadows and put our soles on their vanity which seems a body," and "they had to come backward for to look before them was denied" -- http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/franco_gina.html Karyna McGlynn -- [he had small eyes the color of dull mink], [some hallway spill fried pinesol down my thigh], and "When They Light the Saginaki" -- http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/mcglynn_karyna.html Michelle Noteboom - "Moistly meaning psychotherapeutics in the stellar estrous age," "I am not the beautiful swimmer," and "I am so not the beautiful swimmer" -- http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/noteboom_michelle.html Meghan Puhschke - "Pony," "Grace," and "Toothpicks As a Twelve Step" -- http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/punschke_meghan.html John Sakkis -- from Mouf -- http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/sakkis_john.html Noah Eli Gordon -- "on dismantling classical vocabulary," "palatial is the compass that shall usher us in," and "perfect gears of industry like an alligator lay in wait exhaling evaporating" -- http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/gordon_noaheli.html Christopher Salerno -- "What if Marvelous Marvin Hagler" and "Foot" -- http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/salerno_christopher.html Cheers! Amy King, Managing Editor Didi Menendez, Publisher/Producer http://www.mipoesias.com/ --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 09:50:32 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Paul Nelson Subject: Lebanon coverage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit While we debate the best method for addressing the latest Lebanon crisis, one Lebanese web designer, educated in Canada and the U.S. has created a blog with amazing material from his home in the Bekaa Valley. He was featured on CNN and the interview with him is still on their front page and is the most-watched video on that website. His site is http://www.lebanonlive.blogspot.com/ and he goes by Beezer. To watch the CNN interview and then the unedited version on his site is quite an education in how "news" is conveyed by major American news agencies. This is why, for 15 years, I produced long-form radio interview programs WITHOUT major editing. Sort of like a projective verse in conversation. http://www.globalvoicesradio.org/hour.html He also has links to an interesting Chomsky interview. In it Chomsky points out the Israeli abduction of Lebanese civilians that preceded the Hezbollah abduction of Israeli soldiers. In the comment box there are a couple of the usual denunciations of Chomsky, but none speak to the facts he brings up, preferring to use the method of attacking his character than the facts. Everyone has their own way of responding to crisis. To me, Beezer's blog has the most value, as I can get a first-hand account and draw my own conclusions. He is a brave man and shows it's better to live one day as a lion than a lifetime as a sheep. Paul -- Paul E. Nelson www.GlobalVoicesRadio.org www.SPLAB.org 908 I. St. N.E. #4 Slaughter, WA 98002 253.735.6328 toll-free 888.735.6328 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 13:01:31 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kevin thurston Subject: Re: black/white background In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline a black background with white text is easier to read, at least it draws more attention to the text then black type on white. confessions of an ad man, On 7/23/06, Diane DiPrima wrote: > > Alas, For what it's worth, this person wit 72 year old eyes just goes away > when the site she's accessed features dark background and colored type - > too > much of a struggle to read. D. di P. > > > > > > > From: alexander saliby > > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > > Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 23:50:16 -0700 > > To: > > Subject: Re: black/white background > > > > yes, Jim, but you are one of a study of one...have you color > deficiencies? are > > you prejudiced in some unknown way to specific colors? have you a > > pre-conceived view of the "moral" value of "black" versus "white"? etc. > etc. > > > > Also, your personal views of the use of color are interesting, but not > > necessarily representative of the mass audience. > > > > Among a focus group of say, 6 rooms of 20 viewers per room, would your > views > > represent the majority or the minority? More specifically, you are 1 of > a > > 100,000,000 readers. Granted, you are an important personae, but the > fraction > > still stands, undisputed. > > > > Your response suggests to this researcher that you fall into that group > of > > folks who believe their personal opinion represents the majority simply > > because it's the view they hold. Unfortunately, research supports > exactly the > > opposite: those who hold that their opinion is 'the' opinion tend to > fall into > > the fewer than .02% of the minority, rather than the .51% of any > majority. > > > > But, Jim, don't be dismayed by that point. I'm there with you. And the > > hardest thing I had to learn in my former job was: nobody cared what my > > thoughts were. They only cared what the majority's view held. > > alex > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Jim Andrews > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 11:31 PM > > Subject: black/white background > > > > > > personally, i find a black background and off-white text easier to > read. > > looking at a white screen can be physically painful to me: too bright, > > highly radiated. that's why i use a black background on my site, > usually. > > also, when you do use color amid a black background (in graphics, not > text), > > the combo of color and black background can somehow give the > impression of > > the color being lit from within, sort of stained-glass-like. whereas a > white > > background dominates the color of the graphics and detracts from the > energy > > of the graphics. > > > > not scientific but i've been looking at monitors way too much for > years. > > > > ja > > http://vispo.com > -- http://fuckinglies.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 13:38:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Lebanon coverage In-Reply-To: <44C3A8D8.9000206@speakeasy.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Thanks, Paul, for this. Posting the url prominently on web pages would be a strong gesture. Mark At 12:50 PM 7/23/2006, you wrote: >While we debate the best method for addressing the latest Lebanon >crisis, one Lebanese web designer, educated in Canada and the U.S. >has created a blog with amazing material from his home in the Bekaa >Valley. He was featured on CNN and the interview with him is still >on their front page and is the most-watched video on that website. > >His site is http://www.lebanonlive.blogspot.com/ and he goes by >Beezer. To watch the CNN interview and then the unedited version on >his site is quite an education in how "news" is conveyed by major >American news agencies. This is why, for 15 years, I produced >long-form radio interview programs WITHOUT major editing. Sort of >like a projective verse in conversation. >http://www.globalvoicesradio.org/hour.html > >He also has links to an interesting Chomsky interview. In it Chomsky >points out the Israeli abduction of Lebanese civilians that preceded >the Hezbollah abduction of Israeli soldiers. In the comment box >there are a couple of the usual denunciations of Chomsky, but none >speak to the facts he brings up, preferring to use the method of >attacking his character than the facts. > >Everyone has their own way of responding to crisis. To me, Beezer's >blog has the most value, as I can get a first-hand account and draw >my own conclusions. He is a brave man and shows it's better to live >one day as a lion than a lifetime as a sheep. > >Paul > >-- >Paul E. Nelson >www.GlobalVoicesRadio.org >www.SPLAB.org >908 I. St. N.E. #4 >Slaughter, WA 98002 >253.735.6328 >toll-free 888.735.6328 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 12:41:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: black/white background In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed then there's one of my favorites-- a whack text on a blight background >From: kevin thurston >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: black/white background >Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 13:01:31 -0400 > >a black background with white text is easier to read, at least it draws >more >attention to the text then black type on white. > >confessions of an ad man, > >On 7/23/06, Diane DiPrima wrote: >> >>Alas, For what it's worth, this person wit 72 year old eyes just goes away >>when the site she's accessed features dark background and colored type - >>too >>much of a struggle to read. D. di P. >> >> >> >> >> >> > From: alexander saliby >> > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >> > Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 23:50:16 -0700 >> > To: >> > Subject: Re: black/white background >> > >> > yes, Jim, but you are one of a study of one...have you color >>deficiencies? are >> > you prejudiced in some unknown way to specific colors? have you a >> > pre-conceived view of the "moral" value of "black" versus "white"? >>etc. >>etc. >> > >> > Also, your personal views of the use of color are interesting, but not >> > necessarily representative of the mass audience. >> > >> > Among a focus group of say, 6 rooms of 20 viewers per room, would your >>views >> > represent the majority or the minority? More specifically, you are 1 >>of >>a >> > 100,000,000 readers. Granted, you are an important personae, but the >>fraction >> > still stands, undisputed. >> > >> > Your response suggests to this researcher that you fall into that group >>of >> > folks who believe their personal opinion represents the majority simply >> > because it's the view they hold. Unfortunately, research supports >>exactly the >> > opposite: those who hold that their opinion is 'the' opinion tend to >>fall into >> > the fewer than .02% of the minority, rather than the .51% of any >>majority. >> > >> > But, Jim, don't be dismayed by that point. I'm there with you. And >>the >> > hardest thing I had to learn in my former job was: nobody cared what my >> > thoughts were. They only cared what the majority's view held. >> > alex >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: Jim Andrews >> > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> > Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 11:31 PM >> > Subject: black/white background >> > >> > >> > personally, i find a black background and off-white text easier to >>read. >> > looking at a white screen can be physically painful to me: too >>bright, >> > highly radiated. that's why i use a black background on my site, >>usually. >> > also, when you do use color amid a black background (in graphics, not >>text), >> > the combo of color and black background can somehow give the >>impression of >> > the color being lit from within, sort of stained-glass-like. whereas >>a >>white >> > background dominates the color of the graphics and detracts from the >>energy >> > of the graphics. >> > >> > not scientific but i've been looking at monitors way too much for >>years. >> > >> > ja >> > http://vispo.com >> > > > >-- >http://fuckinglies.blogspot.com _________________________________________________________________ On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 13:44:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: black/white background In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I've only dipped into this discussion for moments, but it seems to me that different contributors mean different things by "read." If what's meant is a billboard image, not something dwelt-on or read as a prolonged process, sure, white on black works well. It's why I sometimes use dropout letters on book covers. Part of what makes it memorable is precisely its painfulness--on one book cover I deliberately used lettering in the complementary color to the background, so that the letters appeared to vibrate. But for a text black on white is a lot more restful, which may be why printers, who've had the choice since before Gutenberg, almost always choose it. Mark At 01:01 PM 7/23/2006, you wrote: >a black background with white text is easier to read, at least it draws more >attention to the text then black type on white. > >confessions of an ad man, > >On 7/23/06, Diane DiPrima wrote: >> >>Alas, For what it's worth, this person wit 72 year old eyes just goes away >>when the site she's accessed features dark background and colored type - >>too >>much of a struggle to read. D. di P. >> >> >> >> >> >> > From: alexander saliby >> > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >> > Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 23:50:16 -0700 >> > To: >> > Subject: Re: black/white background >> > >> > yes, Jim, but you are one of a study of one...have you color >>deficiencies? are >> > you prejudiced in some unknown way to specific colors? have you a >> > pre-conceived view of the "moral" value of "black" versus "white"? etc. >>etc. >> > >> > Also, your personal views of the use of color are interesting, but not >> > necessarily representative of the mass audience. >> > >> > Among a focus group of say, 6 rooms of 20 viewers per room, would your >>views >> > represent the majority or the minority? More specifically, you are 1 of >>a >> > 100,000,000 readers. Granted, you are an important personae, but the >>fraction >> > still stands, undisputed. >> > >> > Your response suggests to this researcher that you fall into that group >>of >> > folks who believe their personal opinion represents the majority simply >> > because it's the view they hold. Unfortunately, research supports >>exactly the >> > opposite: those who hold that their opinion is 'the' opinion tend to >>fall into >> > the fewer than .02% of the minority, rather than the .51% of any >>majority. >> > >> > But, Jim, don't be dismayed by that point. I'm there with you. And the >> > hardest thing I had to learn in my former job was: nobody cared what my >> > thoughts were. They only cared what the majority's view held. >> > alex >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: Jim Andrews >> > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> > Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 11:31 PM >> > Subject: black/white background >> > >> > >> > personally, i find a black background and off-white text easier to >>read. >> > looking at a white screen can be physically painful to me: too bright, >> > highly radiated. that's why i use a black background on my site, >>usually. >> > also, when you do use color amid a black background (in graphics, not >>text), >> > the combo of color and black background can somehow give the >>impression of >> > the color being lit from within, sort of stained-glass-like. whereas a >>white >> > background dominates the color of the graphics and detracts from the >>energy >> > of the graphics. >> > >> > not scientific but i've been looking at monitors way too much for >>years. >> > >> > ja >> > http://vispo.com > > > >-- >http://fuckinglies.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 13:51:00 -0400 Reply-To: "J. Michael Mollohan" Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "J. Michael Mollohan" Organization: idea.s Subject: Re: *** Spam *** Re: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Further, those studies found sans serif type far superior to serif text as > far as readability was concerned. I'm sure that's why almost every book is set in a serif type. Or are you just referring to on-screen text? All the wisdom I've seen regarding video text says that the background should be somewhat less than stark white, and the text should be dark. Pure white on a screen is akin to staring at a light bulb. I find a pale yellow with a tinge of brown as a background works well when I'm working for extended periods. That's my 2p worth. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 11:57:29 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Starr Subject: Re: Lebanon coverage In-Reply-To: <44C3A8D8.9000206@speakeasy.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks may also find this of interest: http://israelpalestineblogs.com/ It's a blog aggregator for peace activists on every side of the various borders. I'd also recommend Silverstein's other, personal blog, http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/ , for good left/liberal analysis of the Israeli right-wing and their enablers. -Ron Starr -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Paul Nelson Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 9:51 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Lebanon coverage <..> His site is http://www.lebanonlive.blogspot.com/ and he goes by Beezer. To watch the CNN interview and then the unedited version on his site is quite an education in how "news" is conveyed by major American news agencies. <..> ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 15:15:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: VERNON FRAZER'S BENEATH THE UNDERGROUND SHUTS DOWN--PROTEST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit VERNON FRAZER'S BENEATH THE UNDERGROUND PRESS WILL SHUT DOWN FROM JULY 21, 2006 THROUGH AUGUST 21, 2006 TO PROTEST ALL WARS AND TO DEMONSTRATE OUR SADNESS AND HORROR AT THE TRAGIC LOSS OF HUMAN LIFE IN THE MIDDLE EAST ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 12:39:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 20-Jul-06, at 10:10 AM, Diane DiPrima wrote: > Hi Tom, > > I'm not aware of any Sanskrit references in Duncan--don't believe that > was > his cup of tea. He eschewed the "mystical" per se, stuck to the Greek > and > such like. > > Best, > > Diane > Hmmm. "Yes, for I too loved the scene of dark magic, the sorcerer's sending up clouds of empire and martyrdom, the Gem made by goblins yielding its secret gold to the knowing, enchantresses coming to the lodestone, the star that Adam dreams, angels in their goblin splendors of eyes and fires left and right ascending the ladders of letters." ---"What do I Know of the Old Lore?" ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 15:35:56 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jack Kimball Subject: hocus ... process Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed A short poetics piece that avoids following terms. Appropriation, freaky, trans-whatnot, googled, fake, 9/11, trepidation, flarfing, procedural, creepy, quietude, collective, performance, har har, post-whatever, powerpoint, or blur. Yet it *contains* them. Hocus Fracas: Attitude in Process Accessible here -- http://jackkimball.com/res/hocus.pdf ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 16:02:47 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jill Stengel Subject: re israel--thank you MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit thank you to those of you who responded to my post--and those who would have posted even without my post--with information, where to find more information, and expressions of your ideas/beliefs/opinions about israel, lebanon, and the whole mess. i felt very uncomfortable stating my opinion, as i knew i would likely be attacked, misinterpreted, reviled. so many times the climate of the list turns hostile. i'm glad to see real information exchange here. (of course, jason q, this is not addressed to you. i'm still reeling from your misinterpretation and character assassination. i can't even read your i-hate-jill post again to see if it has salient points.) jill stengel ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 17:12:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: VERNON FRAZER'S BENEATH THE UNDERGROUND SHUTS DOWN--PROTEST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit dalachinsky will shut down or at least shut up in protest of all things ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 17:07:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: Big Bridge In-Reply-To: <007501c6ae6b$afc53af0$7bfdfc83@Weishaus> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I agree with all of that, Joel. Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@gmail.com halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Jul 23, 2006, at 10:21 AM, Joel Weishaus wrote: > Hal: > > I think you're right about the Big Bridge shutdown. Always is the > time to speak up, not shut down. > However, Michael has a good heart, did what he felt best, and I > respect him. > > Best Regards, > Joel > > __________________________________ > > Joel Weishaus > Research Faculty > Center for Excellence in Writing > Portland State University > Portland, Oregon > http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 16:39:33 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: international poetry museum? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The National Poetry Association is happy to announce the establishment = of the International Poetry Museum. This achievement has taken 30 years to accomplish. Its modest beginning contains representation from over 59 countries' bi-lingual poetry collections. To represent the poetic = efforts of the literary world more effectively, we are asking for your = contribution.=20 The museum has an impressive list of supporters, including past American Poet Laureates-Robert Hass, Lawrence Ferlingetti, Dr. Maya Angelou as = well as the mayor of San Francisco, and many others.=20 =20 [and a really strange web site] Any bi-lingual collection or comments you would like to see a part of = this historic museum, please send to:=20 International Poetry Museum=20 Attention: Herman Berlandt/director=20 834 Brannan Street=20 2nd floor=20 San Francisco, CA 94103=20 Questions or concerns please respond via email - info@internationalpoetrymuseum.org=20 =20 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 18:48:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: VERNON FRAZER'S BENEATH THE UNDERGROUND SHUTS DOWN--PROTEST In-Reply-To: <20060723.171452.-180721.5.skyplums@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I dare you. On Jul 23, 2006, at 4:12 PM, Steve Dalachinsky wrote: > dalachinsky will shut down > or at least shut up > in protest of all things > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 19:15:55 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: H Arnold Subject: Re: Bridge shutdown In-Reply-To: <007501c6ae6b$afc53af0$7bfdfc83@Weishaus> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed protest via symbols is better than no protest at all --- http://www.theircircularlife.it/ -maybe others have seen this site in a different context -h ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 21:06:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: george thompson Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear List, Sorry for this late response. Too busy with other things.. Some pedantic notes. We should not trust these word searches from the Perseus website. Maybe there is a font problem. I don't know. But as a matter of fact the word 'eris' is very frequent in Hesiod, especially in his *Works and Days.* He and Empedocles both were preoccupied with the role of Strife in the unfolding of things. Hesiod is especially interesting because he distinguishes between good strife and bad strife. Good strife is more or less equivalent to striving for the good, whereas bad strife is a striving for dissension, i.e. strife. Striving and strife are mreely reflections of each other, and of course they are linguistic cognates. Hesiod knew well the problem that we ourselves are facing now here in the US: what to do with these vacuous evil-doers who have seemingly irrepressible power? In other words, what we are dealing with -- when it comes to Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, et al. -- has been a perpetual problem as far as we know our own history. We have been dealing with it for many thousands of years. Hesiod dealt with it, like so many others, before & after him. Now we are dealing with it again. No progress, so far. I don't have the best resources available at hand -- just a bunch of books in my personal library, as well as a willingness to read them. In any case, as far as I can tell, the source of the Duncan passage in Passages 22 [which I don't have at hand] appears to be Diels - Kranz 124, which is not cited in *The Presocratic Philosophers* of Kirk & Raven. Maybe some classicist can confirm this by using Perseus or some other machine better than I can. So there. As for Sanskrit, the only early Modernist who knew it well, as far as I can tell, was T.S. Eliot, in the Wasteland. He learned his Sanskrit at Harvard under I. Babbitt. Of course, as far as this list is concerned Eliot was a dead-end. As for how I myself got from Duncan to the Vedas, it must have been through some archaeological interest in archaic poetry, like Duncan's own archaeological interests, perhaps, or perhaps Olson's. In any case, I have staked out early Vedic poetics, one of the earliest poetics from antiquity that still survives for our examination. I think that it is of great interest. Best, George Thomspson ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 01:10:57 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Edmund Hardy Subject: Douglas Oliver Blog Symposium In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed http://intercapillaryspace.blogspot.com/ A blog symposium / radial carnival dedicated to the work of Douglas Oliver has begun at "Intercapillary Space", with a post each day. Personal responses, detailed commentaries, essays, diaries... For the first week the contributors are: Pierre Joris, Ralph Hawkins, Nina Davies, Robert Sheppard, Alan Hay, Laura Steele & Ian Davidson. . . and maybe more after that. . . The first post, 'The Tea–Brown Light of Kindness' by Pierre Joris, is here: http://intercapillaryspace.blogspot.com/2006/07/tea-brown-light-of-kindness.html Responses and further blog posts welcome, just fire them off to edmundhardy@hotmail.com Links to poems by Oliver, essays on his work, and full details of his publications are here: http://intercapillaryspace.blogspot.com/2006/06/douglas-oliver-hyper-link-crystal.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 19:00:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work In-Reply-To: <44C41D1F.2090203@adelphia.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 23-Jul-06, at 6:06 PM, george thompson wrote: > > > As for Sanskrit, the only early Modernist who knew it well, as far as > I can tell, was T.S. Eliot, in the Wasteland. He learned his Sanskrit > at Harvard under I. Babbitt. Of course, as far as this list is > concerned Eliot was a dead-end. > That's odd, because back in the early sixties Duncan told me and my friends to read Eliot, reluctant as we WCW fans were. George "Whip" Bowering Running on Empty ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 19:10:40 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Diane DiPrima Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work In-Reply-To: <44C41D1F.2090203@adelphia.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi George, L'm sorry, don't know what you're talking bout here. What's Perseus website? What has Passages 22 got to do with any of this? This here "discussion" started with a question from someone else about 2 Greek words in Empedoklean Reveries, a Duncan poem in Groundwork which IS a Passages, but not numbered and certainly not 22. Thanks for all that other info. I'm sure it will be helpful to many. I myself can't go there right now (& am not indeed a big Hesiod fan). Best, Diane di Prima > From: george thompson > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 21:06:39 -0400 > To: > Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work > > Dear List, > > Sorry for this late response. Too busy with other things.. > > Some pedantic notes. We should not trust these word searches from the > Perseus website. Maybe there is a font problem. I don't know. But as > a matter of fact the word 'eris' is very frequent in Hesiod, especially > in his *Works and Days.* He and Empedocles both were preoccupied with > the role of Strife in the unfolding of things. Hesiod is especially > interesting because he distinguishes between good strife and bad > strife. Good strife is more or less equivalent to striving for the > good, whereas bad strife is a striving for dissension, i.e. strife. > Striving and strife are mreely reflections of each other, and of course > they are linguistic cognates. > > Hesiod knew well the problem that we ourselves are facing now here in > the US: what to do with these vacuous evil-doers who have seemingly > irrepressible power? In other words, what we are dealing with -- when > it comes to Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, et al. -- has been a perpetual > problem as far as we know our own history. We have been dealing with > it for many thousands of years. Hesiod dealt with it, like so many > others, before & after him. Now we are dealing with it again. No > progress, so far. > > I don't have the best resources available at hand -- just a bunch of > books in my personal library, as well as a willingness to read them. In > any case, as far as I can tell, the source of the Duncan passage in > Passages 22 [which I don't have at hand] appears to be Diels - Kranz > 124, which is not cited in *The Presocratic Philosophers* of Kirk & > Raven. Maybe some classicist can confirm this by using Perseus or some > other machine better than I can. > > So there. > > As for Sanskrit, the only early Modernist who knew it well, as far as I > can tell, was T.S. Eliot, in the Wasteland. He learned his Sanskrit at > Harvard under I. Babbitt. Of course, as far as this list is concerned > Eliot was a dead-end. > > As for how I myself got from Duncan to the Vedas, it must have been > through some archaeological interest in archaic poetry, like Duncan's > own archaeological interests, perhaps, or perhaps Olson's. > > In any case, I have staked out early Vedic poetics, one of the earliest > poetics from antiquity that still survives for our examination. I think > that it is of great interest. > > Best, > > George Thomspson ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 22:42:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Dear Diane, "Perseus" refers to http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/ which is a large searchable archive of classical (and later) texts Charles Bernstein http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/bernstein/blog ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 00:38:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Phil Primeau Subject: Chapbook Reviews MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline http://procession.blogspot.com Procession, the blog of PERSISTENCIA*PRESS, is now home to an ongoing review series. Updates will be posted irregularly (read: when I've got good shit and good stamina). Chapbooks, broadsides, 'zines, and other small time pubs are all fair game. Review #1: *Office Gnomics* by *nick-e melville* http://procession.blogspot.com/2006/07/office-gnomics-nick-e-melville-acton.html Phil Primeau PERSISTENCIA*PRESS www.persistencia.tk ** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 00:22:45 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Fw: white ghost MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit white ghost white ghost ( for a.l.c.c.o.l.) white ghost white ghost on the subway white ghost in the hallway white ghost white ghost by the gateway white ghost thru the doorway white ghost white ghost beside the passage way white ghost blocks the alleyway white ghost white ghost down the highway rides the thruway caresses the causeway the free way white ghost white ghost aflickerin in the jaundice rainbout co(o)lor(s) dryran white ghost p(l)ick-a-lingering aflow da wonder-whirl(e)d basefed all/mend the pantleg-flower white ghost caught in the humid/cool white ghost white ghost where beneath your freebuylent 'o skin your chin arainbooed smelt. steve dalachinsky nyc @ the stone 7/22/06 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 22:06:53 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Carol Novack Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 22 Jul 2006 to 23 Jul 2006 (#2006-205): The Big Bridge statement MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline yeah well, i agree with michael r., my friend and publisher (ok so nobody can access my political piece for a month), we homo saps are all fucked up. and so what else is new? i could shut down my own multimedia/lit site easily, but we only emerge maybe 3 x a year and we already are more than blatently "political," so why? i just knew the minute michael made his stand, there would be the usual response from lefties who hate israel. and frankly, as a jew and a leftie and a lapsed crim/constitutional attorney with more than a well develped knee jerk reaction to the shit, and someone who publishes a political lit mag (in no uncertain terms), and also as someone who tried to get editors and publishers to join the KEEP INTERNET ACCESSIBLE movement, with ZERO success (see http://www.madhattersreview.com---link to http://www.savetheinternet.com/, because I merely asked publishers to link the site to their homepages and that was too much to expect ------------ yeah. so i just want to say i think that we all thinking people realize how far we people of this planet are from extinction. so we should all do SOMETHING, like pick the political websites we want our readers and our readers' friends to look at (whom are we kidding? like a whole big population of repugs is gonna be checking lit mags??? what? are you kidding?) and point those wanderers to links. i could give you a bunch of links. but that's not the point. hell, as i said, i don't think the Internets{sick} are going to remain accessible to all but the very rich. so hey, you do what you think is necessary to preserve us.... like float that banner. Israel is far from perfect,and as far as i'm concerned, it's not merely a puppet of fucked up USA and i'm terribly ashamed of "my" country, and i hate what the middle east fundamentalist kooks and filthy rich leaders are doing to their own people. and i don't back what Isreal's doing either. and it's all fucking sickening. so i don't really want to hear the usual kneejerk reactions. sorry. can't we do better than that? carol novack publisher/editor http://www.madhattersreview.com . On 7/23/06, POETICS automatic digest system wrote: > > [image: University at Buffalo / The State University of New York] [image: > listerv.buffalo.edu] POETICS Digest - 22 > Jul 2006 to 23 Jul 2006 (#2006-205) > > Table of contents: > > - BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST(5) > - black/white background(7) > - israel, not so simple(3) > - x365 on the radio > - Justice is what is needed in Israel and the Middle East > - Big Bridge(2) > - Ruins of the mortal lexicon > - A Little Slice of Summer -- MiPOesias > - Lebanon coverage(3) > - *** Spam *** Re: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST > - VERNON FRAZER'S BENEATH THE UNDERGROUND SHUTS DOWN--PROTEST(3) > - Duncan Ground Work(5) > - hocus ... process > - re israel--thank you > - international poetry museum? > - Bridge shutdown > - Douglas Oliver Blog Symposium > > > 1. BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST > - Re: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST(07/22) > *From:* Jason Quackenbush > - Re: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST(07/22) > *From:* Catherine Daly > - Re: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST(07/23) > *From:* Steve Dalachinsky > - Re: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST(07/22) > *From:* alexander saliby > - Re: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST(07/23) > *From:* Marcus Bales > 2. black/white background > - black/white background(07/22) > *From:* Jim Andrews > - Re: black/white background(07/22) > *From:* alexander saliby > - Re: black/white background(07/23) > *From:* Jim Andrews > - Re: black/white background(07/23) > *From:* Diane DiPrima > - Re: black/white background(07/23) > *From:* kevin thurston > - Re: black/white background(07/23) > *From:* David-Baptiste Chirot > - Re: black/white background(07/23) > *From:* Mark Weiss > 3. israel, not so simple > - israel, not so simple(07/23) > *From:* Jill Stengel > - Re: israel, not so simple(07/23) > *From:* Jason Quackenbush > - Re: israel, not so simple(07/23) > *From:* ALDON L NIELSEN > 4. x365 on the radio > - x365 on the radio(07/23) > *From:* Dan Waber > 5. Justice is what is needed in Israel and the Middle East > - Justice is what is needed in Israel and the Middle East(07/23) > *From:* Haas Bianchi > 6. Big Bridge > - Big Bridge(07/23) > *From:* Joel Weishaus > - Re: Big Bridge(07/23) > *From:* Halvard Johnson > 7. Ruins of the mortal lexicon > - Ruins of the mortal lexicon(07/23) > *From:* Peter Ciccariello > 8. A Little Slice of Summer -- MiPOesias > - A Little Slice of Summer -- MiPOesias(07/23) > *From:* amy king > 9. Lebanon coverage > - Lebanon coverage(07/23) > *From:* Paul Nelson > - Re: Lebanon coverage(07/23) > *From:* Mark Weiss > - Re: Lebanon coverage(07/23) > *From:* Ron Starr > 10. *** Spam *** Re: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST > - Re: *** Spam *** Re: BIG BRIDGE SHUTS DOWN -- PROTEST(07/23) > *From:* "J. Michael Mollohan" > 11. VERNON FRAZER'S BENEATH THE UNDERGROUND SHUTS DOWN--PROTEST > - VERNON FRAZER'S BENEATH THE UNDERGROUND SHUTS DOWN--PROTEST(07/23) > *From:* Vernon Frazer > - Re: VERNON FRAZER'S BENEATH THE UNDERGROUND SHUTS > DOWN--PROTEST(07/23) > *From:* Steve Dalachinsky > - Re: VERNON FRAZER'S BENEATH THE UNDERGROUND SHUTS > DOWN--PROTEST(07/23) > *From:* mIEKAL aND > 12. Duncan Ground Work > - Re: Duncan Ground Work(07/23) > *From:* George Bowering > - Re: Duncan Ground Work(07/23) > *From:* george thompson > - Re: Duncan Ground Work(07/23) > *From:* George Bowering > - Re: Duncan Ground Work(07/23) > *From:* Diane DiPrima > - Re: Duncan Ground Work(07/23) > *From:* Charles Bernstein > 13. hocus ... process > - hocus ... process(07/23) > *From:* Jack Kimball > 14. re israel--thank you > - re israel--thank you(07/23) > *From:* Jill Stengel > 15. international poetry museum? > - international poetry museum?(07/23) > *From:* Catherine Daly > 16. Bridge shutdown > - Re: Bridge shutdown(07/23) > *From:* H Arnold > 17. Douglas Oliver Blog Symposium > - Douglas Oliver Blog Symposium(07/24) > *From:* Edmund Hardy > > ------------------------------ > [image: Powered by LISTSERV(R)] Browse > the POETICS online archives. > > > -- MAD HATTERS' REVIEW: Edgy & Enlightened Literature, Art & Music in the Age of Dementia: http://www.madhattersreview.com http://carolnovack.blogspot.com/ http://nowwhatblog.blogspot.com http://www.webdelsol.com/eSCENE/series20.html http://webdelsol.com/PortalDelSol/pds-interview-mhr.htm "Around us, everything is writing; that's what we must perceive. Everything is writing. It's the unknown in oneself, one's head, one's body. Writing is not even a reflection, but a kind of faculty one has, that exists to one side of oneself, parallel to oneself: another person who appears and comes forward, invisible, gifted with thought and anger, and who sometimes, through her own actions, risks losing her life. Into the night." -- Marguerite Duras ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 06:23:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Derek White Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 22 Jul 2006 to 23 Jul 2006 (#2006-205) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In protest of the horrible expenditure of entropic information, I am getting off this list. Derek ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 09:35:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: susan maurer Subject: backwoods broadsides Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed learned s. pollet is stopping the production of his wonderful series of chaplets from backwoods broadsides. hes published prevallet, creeley, notley and to show hes open to relative beginners me. he did my DREAM ADDICT. he did 100 authors and they are terrific. gather he still has copies of them all and you can buy a full set and there are atuographed ones.was pleased silliman made some nice commetns bout mine( and if hes looking suggests he also take a look at merry fortunes waterworks issue of pagan place.) copies are availabe from sylvesterfor $1.00 and an sase to: sylvester pollet 963 winkumpaugh rd. ellsworth, maine 04605 or whole sets ,too . his email is pollet@maine.edu. syvester if yr watching good luck and thanks. susan maurer _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 10:19:45 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Bredie Subject: Jessica Fjeld & Timothy Donnelly@ McNally Robinson Books NYC, this Wednesday, July 26, 7PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear All, July is screeching to a halt [can you believe it?] and we've got another two fantastic poets who will lull you with their gentile lyricism only to smack you in the face with a metaphor. You know you love it, so come to McNally Robinson Bookstore this Wednesday and get your dose of poetry. JESSICA FJELD was selected by Lyn Hejinian as the recipient of the Poetry Society of America's New York Chapbook Fellowship in 2006. Her poems are forthcoming in the next issue of the Backwards City Review,and have previously appeared in the Columbia Review. Like 2.6 million other people, she lives in Brooklyn. TIMOTHY DONNELLY is the author of Twenty-Seven Props for a Production of Eine Lebenszeit and Poetry Editor of Boston Review. He lives in Brooklyn. See you there. Cheers N http://vacationhouse.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 07:41:13 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: justin sirois Subject: Silver Standard . new book . justin sirois . Newlights Press MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit justin sirois' Silver Standard a new book by Newlights Press introduction by M. Magnus images and information:: www.thepixelplus.com . . . . . . . http://www.narrowhouserecordings.com/ a record label primarily interested in contemporary writing, poetics and the political __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 11:03:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Chaucer in New York Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Present Tense: Literary Artists & Performers Engaging Chaucer A special presentation of the Fifteenth Annual Conference of the New Chaucer Society Friday, July 28 at 8pm Fordham University Lincoln Center Campus (113 West 60th St., in Manhattan) Lowenstein 12th Floor Lounge *free and open to the public* Organized by David Wallace, University of Pennsylvania Host: Charles Bernstein, University of Pennsylvania Susan Stewart, Princeton University Dreaming after Chaucer Wendy Steiner, University of Pennsylvania "The Loathly Lady: An Animated Opera." Caroline Bergvall, Bard College Performing Chaucer's Feasts Co-sponsored by Poets House and the Medieval Club of New York ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 10:06:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Re: Silver Standard . new book . justin sirois . Newlights Press Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Justin, Congratulations. This book looks just terrific. Interactive! Go hands-on! Good Luck, Chris > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "justin sirois" > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Silver Standard . new book . justin sirois . Newlights Press > Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 07:41:13 -0700 >=20 >=20 > justin sirois' >=20 > Silver Standard >=20 > a new book by Newlights Press > introduction by M. Magnus >=20 > images and information:: >=20 > www.thepixelplus.com >=20 > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > http://www.narrowhouserecordings.com/ > a record label primarily interested in contemporary writing, poetics a= nd the political >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > Christophe Casamassima Professor Emiritus, Modern Languages & Philology University of Jamaica Avenue, Queens, N.Y. --=20 ___________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.graffiti.net/ Powered By Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 08:07:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: justin sirois Subject: Re: Silver Standard . new book . justin sirois . Newlights Press In-Reply-To: <20060724150625.E227514875@ws5-9.us4.outblaze.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit cass, thanks sir. hope all is well. js --- furniture_ press wrote: > Justin, > > Congratulations. This book looks just terrific. > Interactive! Go hands-on! > > Good Luck, > > Chris > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "justin sirois" > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: Silver Standard . new book . justin > sirois . Newlights Press > > Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 07:41:13 -0700 > > > > > > justin sirois' > > > > Silver Standard > > > > a new book by Newlights Press > > introduction by M. Magnus > > > > images and information:: > > > > www.thepixelplus.com > > > > . > > . > > . > > . > > . > > . > > . > > http://www.narrowhouserecordings.com/ > > a record label primarily interested in > contemporary writing, poetics and the political > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > > Christophe Casamassima > Professor Emiritus, Modern Languages & Philology > University of Jamaica Avenue, Queens, N.Y. > > > -- > ___________________________________________ > Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net > Play 100s of games for FREE! > http://games.graffiti.net/ > > > Powered By Outblaze > . . . . . . . http://www.narrowhouserecordings.com/ a record label primarily interested in contemporary writing, poetics and the political __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 08:19:31 -0700 Reply-To: rsillima@yahoo.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: We're back - Silliman's Blog Comments: To: Brit Po , New Po , Wom Po , Lucifer Poetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ RECENT POSTS Rebirth of the division between the School of Quietude and the post-avant tradition in Afghan poetry in the U.S. Geography, community and traffic in the San Francisco Bay Area A moment of comedy offered by Brad Leithauser in the NY Times The tragedy of David Ignatow Litquake: We have met the enemy and he is us Naropa Notes Michael Koshkin’s Ronald Johnson A unique reading of The Men by Lisa Robertson Preparing students for an MFA Just what is genre? Between self and other in poetry (don’t teach the obvious) Time in Allen Ginsberg’s Howl http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 11:28:15 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barrett Watten Subject: recent posts Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Post 30: Thinking of War at a Distance: Proxy Violence and Real Victims in= =20 Lebanon http://www.english.wayne.edu/fac%5Fpages/ewatten/posts/post30.html Post 29: With Adorno and Smithson in Eisenh=FCttenstadt (DE) http://www.english.wayne.edu/fac%5Fpages/ewatten/posts/post29.html Post 28: Recovering "Forty Poems" and "Object Status" http://www.english.wayne.edu/fac%5Fpages/ewatten/posts/post28.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 08:29:38 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amalio Madueno Subject: back in saddle again In-Reply-To: <44C3A8D8.9000206@speakeasy.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Pablo, thanks for your sunday phone call, I got back late last night from the Jicarita, so I respond asap this morning. No problem re: Chris Jarmik, etc. I emailed him that I had no knowledge of your interaction. So, all good. No Problemo. What's UP? I been in France a week +, then Denver a week, so I'm back in the saddle but playing catch up. MX --- Paul Nelson wrote: > While we debate the best method for addressing the > latest Lebanon > crisis, one Lebanese web designer, educated in > Canada and the U.S. has > created a blog with amazing material from his home > in the Bekaa Valley. > He was featured on CNN and the interview with him is > still on their > front page and is the most-watched video on that > website. > > His site is http://www.lebanonlive.blogspot.com/ and > he goes by Beezer. > To watch the CNN interview and then the unedited > version on his site is > quite an education in how "news" is conveyed by > major American news > agencies. This is why, for 15 years, I produced > long-form radio > interview programs WITHOUT major editing. Sort of > like a projective > verse in conversation. > http://www.globalvoicesradio.org/hour.html > > He also has links to an interesting Chomsky > interview. In it Chomsky > points out the Israeli abduction of Lebanese > civilians that preceded the > Hezbollah abduction of Israeli soldiers. In the > comment box there are a > couple of the usual denunciations of Chomsky, but > none speak to the > facts he brings up, preferring to use the method of > attacking his > character than the facts. > > Everyone has their own way of responding to crisis. > To me, Beezer's blog > has the most value, as I can get a first-hand > account and draw my own > conclusions. He is a brave man and shows it's better > to live one day as > a lion than a lifetime as a sheep. > > Paul > > -- > Paul E. Nelson > www.GlobalVoicesRadio.org > www.SPLAB.org > 908 I. St. N.E. #4 > Slaughter, WA 98002 > 253.735.6328 > toll-free 888.735.6328 > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 11:46:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: george thompson Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit George Bowering wrote: "That's odd, because back in the early sixties Duncan told me and my friends to read Eliot, reluctant as we WCW fans were." Hello George, I just read these lines from *Bending the Bow* the other day ["passages 24", p.78]: Down this dark corridor, "this passage," the poet reminds me, and now that Eliot is dead, Williams and H.D. dead, Ezra alone of my old masters alive, let me acknowledge Eliot was one of them, I was one of his, whose "History has many cunning passages, contrived corridors" comes into the chrestomathy. When I said "Of course, as far as this list is concerned Eliot was a dead-end," what I meant was that the Poetics List in general belongs to the "Williams" branch of the poetic tree. The Eliot branch has gone off in another direction. Maybe I'm wrong about this, but I've been reading this list for years and I don't recall very much interest in Eliot. By the way, the reason why I am on this list is that I have belonged to the "Williams" branch too. Also, Diane, I apologize for the confusion. I don't have the passage at hand, so I'm the one who is confused. But in any case, the discussion has gotten me to re-read Duncan and Hesiod, and that is good. I've been thinking a lot about Duncan, and San Francisco, and Berkeley, lately. Best to you both, George ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 12:15:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: In Today's News MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Going into the weekend, Israel was warning all citizens of southern Lebanon that they should leave their homes and evacuate the area. Yesterday, Israeli forces, in at least six incidents, fired upon people who were following the warnings and evacuating. In one episode, an Israeli helicopter hit a minivan full of innocent evacuees in a missile strike. On another issue, does anybody besides me find this suspect? Following the assasination of a major political leader in Lebanon just months ago, the US and the world demanded, quite rightly, that Syria remove all its troops from Lebanon. So they did (though they are suspected of leaving agents behind). So there were no Syrian army forces in Lebanon when Israel decided to respond to the Hezbollah outrage by invading and bombing. Coincidence? Perhaps . . . <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 12:23:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Promulgation Comments: To: ALDON L NIELSEN In-Reply-To: <200607241615.MAA26863@webmail19.cac.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable This is from a site called The Almanac of Policy Issues -- and it's just as riveting as the subject heading sounds. The formatting and footnotes didn't transcribe too well, but what's most striking is how HHS, with a stroke of the pen, changes "industry standards" and sets brand new parameters -- see footnote 5. Your tax dollars at work. Summary=A0 With certain restrictions, the President has announced that federal funds may be used to conduct research on human embryonic stem cells. Federal research is limited to 64 1 existing stem cell lines that were derived (1) with the informed consent of the donors; (2) from excess embryos created solely for reproductive purposes; and (3) without any financial inducements to the donors. No federal funds will be used for the derivation or use of stem cell lines derived from newly destroyed embryos; the creation of any human embryos for research purposes; or cloning of human embryos for any purposes. Several lawsuits have been filed relating to stem cell research, and questions have been raised concerning access to existing stem cell lines by federal researchers. Human Embryonic Stem Cells. Human embryonic stem cells are "master cells" and are able to develop into almost any cell in the human body. Building on earlier stem cell research, in 1998, researchers at the University of Wisconsin isolated cells from the inner cell mass of the early human embryo, called the blastocyst, and developed the first human embryonic stem cell lines. 2 Research has focused on the potential that these cells can offer to treat or mitigate diseases and conditions and to generate replacement tissues for disfunctioning cells or organs. 3 Research efforts have focused on spinal cord injury, multiple sclerosis, Parkinson's disease, Alzheimer's disease, diabetes, and other diseases or conditions. Scientists hope to use specialized cells to replace dysfunctional cells in the brain, spinal cord, pancreas, and other organs. 4 The sources for stem cells include: one week old embryos (blastocysts) created via in vitro fertilization (IVF) to treat infertility; five to nine week old embryos or fetuses obtained through elective abortion; embryos created through IVF for research purposes; embryos created through cloning or somatic cell nuclear transfer (SCNT); and adult tissues (umbilical cord blood, bone marrow). Controversy surrounds the derivation of stem cells from human embryos and fetuses. In order to derive or extract the stem cells found within the embryo, the embryo is destroyed in the removal process. The earliest embryonic stem cells are called totipotent cells, which means they can develop into an entire organism, producing both the embryo and tissues required to support it in the uterus. At a later stage of development, pluripotent embryonic stem cells exist and can develop into almost any type of cell in the body. These stem cells cannot form the supporting tissues, as seen with totipotent cells. 5 Human embryonic stem cells found in the early stage embryo are believed to have a greater ability to become different types of body cells and have more uses than adult stem cells. Background and Recent Presidential and Congressional Action=A0 Executive Action. When President Bush took office in January, 2001, he announced he would conduct a review of the stem cell research issue and ordered the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) to review the National Institutes of Health's (NIH) guidelines issued by the former administration. During the review period, NIH suspended its review of applications from researchers seeking federal funds to perform human embryonic stem cell research. On August 9, 2001, President Bush announced that federal funds would be available to support limited human embryonic stem cell research. The new policy provides that federal funds may be used for research on 64 existing stem cell lines that have already been derived or were already in existence as of the date of the announcement. In identifying the 64 stem cell lines as being eligible for federal funding, the President said these embryos, from which the existing stem cell lines were created, had been destroyed previously and could not develop as human beings. Under the new policy, federal agencies, primarily NIH, will consider applications for funding if certain standards or eligibility criteria are met. The White House fact sheet setting forth the President's policy states: federal funds will only be used for research on existing stem cell lines that were derived (1) with the informed consent of the donors; (2) from excess embryos created solely for reproductive purposes; and (3) without any financial inducements to the donors. 6 The President directed NIH to examine the derivation of all existing stem cell lines and create a registry of those lines. Pursuant to this new policy, no federal funds will be used for: (1) the derivation or use of stem cell lines derived from newly destroyed embryos; (2) the creation of any human embryos for research purposes; or (3) cloning of human embryos for any purposes. The new policy replaces previously issued stem cell guidelines and policies. The policy also requires the creation of the President's Council on Bioethics to study stem cells and embryo research as well as other issues. NIH has listed entities that have developed stem cells lines that meet the President's criteria and are eligible for federal funding (the Human Embryonic Stem Cell Registry). The President also stated that in FY2001, the government will spend $250 million on research involving stem cells from other sources, e. g., umbilical cord, placenta, adult and animal tissues. Background and Congressional Activity. Prior to President Bush's stem cell announcement, and over the past years, federal law has prohibited HHS from funding human embryo research. No federal funds have been used to support research on stem cells derived from human embryos. Research in this area has been done through private funding. Subsequent to several phases of action, in December 1994, President Clinton, through an executive directive, prohibited federal funding on research to support the creation of human embryos for research purposes and directed NIH not to allocate resources for such research. 7 The order banning funding for such research was followed by a legislative ban in 1996 enacted in NIH's funding measure. 8 Congress has passed a similar ban annually since that time. The original congressional ban stated that federally appropriated funds could not be used for the creation of a human embryo or embryos for research purposes or for research in which a human embryo or embryos are destroyed, discarded, or knowingly subjected to risk of injury or death greater than that allowed for research on fetuses in utero under 45 C. F. R. 46.208( a)( 2) and 42 U. S. C. =A7 289g( b). The ban defined "human embryo or embryos" to include any organism, not protected as a human subject under 45 C. F. R. 46 (Human Subject Protection regulations) that is derived by fertilization, parthenogenesis, cloning, or any other means from one or more human gametes (sperm or egg.) The rider language has not changed significantly over the years. In the subsequent fiscal years after FY1996, the rider was enacted in Title V (General Provisions) of the Labor, HHS and Education appropriations acts. 9 The prohibition does not ban fetal tissue research, although other restrictions apply. 10 Advances in medical science proceeded and in 1998 critical developments were recognized by scientists at the University of Wisconsin. These researchers were able to isolate human embryonic stem cells and coax them to grow into specialized cells. In light of the presidential and legislative bans, NIH requested a legal opinion from the General Counsel of HHS on whether federal funds could be used to support research on human stem cells derived from embryos or fetal tissue. HHS' General Counsel, Harriet Rabb, concluded that then- current law prohibiting the use of HHS appropriated funds for human embryo research would not apply to research using stem cells "because such cells are not a human embryo within the statutory definition." 11 General Counsel Rabb determined that the statutory ban on human embryo research defines embryo as an "organism" that when implanted in the uterus is capable of becoming a human being. The opinion stated that pluripotent stem cells are not and cannot develop into an organism, as defined in the statute. HHS concluded that NIH could fund research that uses stem cells derived from the embryo by private funds. But, because of the language in the rider, NIH could not fund research that, with federal funds, derived the stem cells from embryos. Some members of Congress strongly opposed HHS' view and believed that the legislative ban, that would continue through FY2001, covered and prohibited such research. Others supported both the administration's position and the funding of such research. In response to those opposed to the HHS opinion, and the subsequently published NIH guidelines, Secretary Shalala stated in a letter that the definition of embryo used in the HHS legal opinion relied on the definition of embryo in the statute and that the ban applied only to research in which human embryos are discarded or destroyed but not to research preceding or following "on such projects." 12 The letter stated: "Moreover ... there is nothing in the legislative history to suggest that the provision was intended to prohibit funding for research in which embryos -organisms -are not involved." After the HHS legal opinion, and despite expressions of congressional opposition, NIH indicated that it would fund research on pluripotent stem cells derived from human embryos and fetal tissue once guidelines were issued and an oversight committee was established. Draft guidelines were published in the Federal Register in December 1999 and final guidelines were issued in August 2000. 13 The guidelines provided that studies utilizing pluripotent stem cells derived from human embryos may be conducted using NIH funds only if the cells were derived, without federal funds, from human embryos that were created for the purposes of fertility treatment and were in excess of the clinical need of the individuals seeking such treatment. Based upon HHS's interpretation, funds could not be used to extract or derive the stem cells from the embryo, thereby destroying the embryo. NIH initiated the applications process but ultimately funding was not granted to the applications. The prior administration's process was then overtaken by events and the new policy was set. In addition to President Bush's actions, congressional interest has continued into the 107 th Congress. In July 2001, Senator Frist outlined a ten-point plan that favored stem cell research and included, in part, these points: (1) prohibit the creation of human embryos solely for research purposes; (2) strengthen and codify the ban on federal funding for the derivation of embryonic stem cells; (3) prohibit cloning to prevent the creation and exploitation of life for research purposes; (4) increase federal funding for adult stem cell research; (5) allow federal funding for research using only those embryonic stem cells derived from blastocysts that are left over after IVF and would otherwise be discarded; and other points. Various bills or initiatives have been introduced in the 107 th Congress on stem cell research or cloning, which in some cases would have an effect on stem cell research. The following highlights major legislation or other initiatives that are likely to receive additional legislative attention this session. On April 5, 2001, Senator Specter introduced S. 723, the Stem Cell Research Act of 2001, which would amend current law and authorize NIH to fund the derivation of stem cells from surplus IVF embryos. This type of research activity is prohibited under the current Labor/ HHS appropriation bill rider. The bill was referred to the Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions. A companion bill to S. 723, H. R. 2059, was introduced by Rep. McDermott. On May 1, 2002, Senators Specter, Feinstein, Hatch and Kennedy, as well as other Senators, introduced S. 2439, the Human Cloning Prohibition Act of 2002. This bill would prohibit human reproductive cloning but would allow cloning for medical research purposes, including stem cell research. The bill was referred the Senate Committee on the Judiciary and is expected to receive heightened legislative attention. H. Res. 17 was introduced by Rep. Maloney on January 30, 2001, expressing the sense of the Congress supporting federal funding of pluripotent stem cell research. Other bills have been introduced on stem cell research, but have not received extensive legislative attention: the Responsible Stem Cell Research Act of 2001 (H. R. 2096; companion bill, S. 1349); the Stem Cell Research for Patient Benefit Act (H. R. 2747); the New Century Health Advantage Act (H. R. 2838); and the Science of Stem Cell Research Act (H. R. 4011), which was introduced in April 2002. In addition to S. 2439, other cloning bills have been introduced that implicate stem cell research. For instance, H. R. 2505, the Human Cloning Prohibition Act of 2001 (Weldon) was introduced in July 2001 and would amend Title 18, U. S. Code, to prohibit human cloning. The bill was approved by voice vote by the House Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime on July 19, 2001 and approved by the full committee on July 24, 2001. 14 The House passed H. R. 2505 on July 31, 2001. The bill was received in the Senate, and the last action was August 8, 2001. 15 H. R. 2505 has received support from the Administration. While this bill is referred to as a cloning bill and would ban the process of human cloning called somatic cell nuclear transfer when used for reproductive purposes as well as for research and therapeutic uses, it would restrict stem cell research. In addition, Sen. Brownback's bill, S. 1899, the Human Cloning Prohibition Act of 2001, the companion bill to H. R. 2505, was introduced January 28, 2002 and is expected to receive legislative attention this session. As with H. R. 2505, the Administration has expressed support for S. 1899. The Senate also considered, but did not pass, Senator Lott's amendment to H. R. 10, the Railroad Retirement and Survivors' Improvement Act of 2001, which would have imposed a 6-month moratorium on all human cloning research and would have affected stem cell research. Legal Activity. Several lawsuits have been filed relating to stem cell research issues. In March 2001, a lawsuit was filed in federal court to stop federal funding of human embryonic stem cell research and to overturn the NIH guidelines. In Nightlight Christian Adoptions, et al. v. Thompson, 16 the plaintiffs sought declaratory and injunctive relief and challenged the NIH guidelines for the public funding for research involving stem cells derived from human embryos. The plaintiffs, a non-profit adoption agency and others, claim that the NIH guidelines authorizing such research violate the legislative ban found in the appropriations rider which prohibits federal funding of research in which a human embryo is destroyed, discarded, or knowingly subjected to risk of injury or death greater than allowed for research on fetuses in utero under 45 C. F. R 46.208( a)( 2) and 42 U. S. C. =A7 289g( b). 17 The plaintiffs challenge NIH's interpretation that the ban on funding of research using human embryos does not cover embryonic stem cell research, as long as the embryos are not destroyed using federal funds. The complaint states the NIH guidelines are arbitrary and capricious within the meaning of the Administrative Procedure Act, 5 U. S. C. =A7 706( 2), not the product of reasoned decisionmaking, and inconsistent with scientific evidence. A stipulated motion to stay the case was issued in May, 2001, which essentially suspended the lawsuit while the President conducted his review of the NIH guidelines. Although events may have overtaken this lawsuit and rendered the claims moot, the case is still pending before the court.=A0 In May 2001, a federal lawsuit was filed claiming the Bush administration illegally withheld federal funding for stem cell research. In Thomson v. Thompson 18 , actor Christopher Reeve and seven scientists filed suit in the U. S. District Court for the District of Columbia claiming the administration was doing irreparable harm by delaying the development of therapies that could, the plaintiffs argued, save lives. The case challenges new administration's decision to halt funding and the directive to Secretary Thompson to review the NIH guidelines. The plaintiffs claim that administrative procedures were not followed in halting the research that, they argue, is permissible under federal statute. Another legal action involves licensing, patent, and intellectual property right issues relative to stem cell research. In 1999, Geron Corp. obtained an exclusive license from the Wisconsin Alumni Research Foundation (WARF) for human embryonic stem cell technology developed by Dr. Thomson of the University of Wisconsin. The license grants Geron exclusive commercial rights to develop six types of human cells, e. g., nerve cells, heart and liver cells, derived from stem cells. Later, Geron attempted to exercise its option on commercial rights to additional (12) cell types but WARF countered that the option had expired. On August 13, 2001, the foundation filed a lawsuit 19 in U. S. District Court in Madison, Wisconsin asking the court to declare Geron's exercise of the option invalid. WARF later amended its complaint to ask the court to declare that Geron's license does not cover rights to research products that might be developed from the stem cells. Geron has asked the court to decide the dispute by discerning the meaning of the agreement without a trial. 20 In September 2001, NIH began discussions with WARF concerning access by federally-funded researchers to human embryonic stem cells. WARF is said to hold patents affecting 64 stem cell lines, including absolute rights to five lines. 21 Secretary Thompson announced that an agreement has been reached with WARF that allows federal researchers access. Notwithstanding these developments, the Geron case raises legal questions concerning intellectual property rights, patents, licensing, and contract rights. The case also raises questions concerning the degree to which licensees or patent holders will make cells available or impose conditions on their use. Current guidelines on research do not reach the specifics of licensing agreements between grant applicants and patent holders. Those parties may negotiate agreements to license, share, and use the subject matter of the agreement. Notes The number was originally noted as 60 stem cell lines. "Stem cells: Scientific Progress and Future Research Directions," NIH, HHS, available at [http:// www. nih. gov/ news/ stemcell/ scireport. htm], Summary, p. 4. For more information on stem cell research, see CRS Report RL31015, Stem Cell Research. Id. at pp. 4-6. Generally, for human development, the term embryo is used for the first 8 weeks after fertilization and the term fetus for the 9 th week through birth. HHS regulations define fetus as "the product of conception from the time of implantation." 45 C. F. R. 46.203. President's embryonic stem cell research policy, Fact Sheet, White House, Office of the Press Secretary, August 9, 2001, [http:// www. whitehouse. gov/ news/ releases/ 2001]. Statement, 30 Weekly Comp. Pres. Doc. 2459, Dec. 2, 1994. Balanced Budget Downpayment Act, 1996, Pub. L. No. 104-99, Sec. 128, 110 Stat. 26, 34 (1996). For the most recent rider, see, Pub. L. No. 106-554, =A7 510 (FY2001). For a list of all the annual riders, see CRS Report 31015, infra, footnote 12, p. 5. The current text adds at the end of the original language, "... or human diploid cells [cells that have two sets of chromosomes, such as somatic cells.] Federal funds have been provided for adult stem cell research. With respect to stem cells derived from fetal tissue, these cells and associated research would be subject to certain other restrictions that safeguard against the inappropriate use of fetuses Letter from HHS Gen. Counsel Harriet Rabb to Harold Varmus, Director, NIH, January 15, 1999. Letter from Secretary Shalala to the Honorable Jay Dickey, Feb. 23, 1999. 64 Fed. Reg. 67576 (1999); 65 Fed. Reg. 51976 (2000), respectively. The full committee defeated a substitute measure that was identical to H. R. 2608 (Greenwood). For additional and specific legislative details, including amendment and vote information, see CRS Report RL31015, Stem Cell Research, by Judith A. Johnson. Civ. No. 1: 01CV00502 (D. D. C. March 8, 2001). Omnibus Consolidated Appropriations Act of 2001, Pub. L. No. 106-554, =A7 510, 114 Stat. 2763. Civ. No. 1: 01CV00973 (D. D. C., May 8, 2001). WARF v. Geron, Civ. No. 01-C-459-C (D. Wis. Aug. 2001). Geron has received two patents for human embryonic germ cells. See, www. geron. com. Marketletter, Sept. 3, 2001. Other patent holders are Geron Corp., BresaGen of Australia and ES Cell International of Singapore as well as WARF's nonprofit subsidiary WiCell. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 11:52:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: In Today's News In-Reply-To: <200607241615.MAA26863@webmail19.cac.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 12:15 PM -0400 7/24/06, ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: >... > > >On another issue, does anybody besides me find this suspect? Following the >assasination of a major political leader in Lebanon just months ago, >the US and >the world demanded, quite rightly, that Syria remove all its troops from >Lebanon. So they did (though they are suspected of leaving agents >behind). So >there were no Syrian army forces in Lebanon when Israel decided to respond to >the Hezbollah outrage by invading and bombing. > >Coincidence? Perhaps . . . reminds me of jay leno's quip abt bush: he must be a genius, making sure a sovereign nation is disarmed and then invading it... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 13:36:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Latta Subject: Re: We're back - Silliman's Blog Comments: To: rsillima@yahoo.com, "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" Comments: cc: Brit Po , Wom Po , Lucifer Poetics In-Reply-To: <20060724151931.20910.qmail@web31805.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="-745678078-1763090868-1153762610=:11956" This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. ---745678078-1763090868-1153762610=:11956 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Is that the royal "we"? On Mon, 24 Jul 2006, Ron Silliman wrote: > http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ > > RECENT POSTS > > Rebirth of the division > between the School of Quietude > and the post-avant tradition > in Afghan poetry in the U.S. > > Geography, community and traffic > in the San Francisco Bay Area > > A moment of comedy > offered by Brad Leithauser > in the NY Times > > The tragedy of David Ignatow > > Litquake: > We have met the enemy and he is us > > Naropa Notes > > Michael Koshkin=92s Ronald Johnson > > A unique reading > of The Men > by Lisa Robertson > > Preparing students for an MFA > > Just what is genre? > > Between self and other in poetry > (don=92t teach the obvious) > > Time in Allen Ginsberg=92s Howl > > http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > ---745678078-1763090868-1153762610=:11956-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 14:11:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Kelleher Subject: JUST BUFFALO E-NEWSLETTER 7-24-06 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable NEW: JOIN JUST BUFFALO ONLINE=21=21=21 If you would like to join Just Buffalo, or simply make a massive personal d= onation, you can do so online using your credit card. We have recently added the abilit= y to join online by paying with a credit card through PayPal. Simply click on the me= mbership level at which you would like to join, log in (or create a PayPal account u= sing your Visa/Amex/Mastercard/Discover), and voil=E1, you will find yourself in lite= rary heaven. For more info, or to join now, go to our website: http://www.justbuffalo.org/membership/index.shtml SPOKEN ARTS RADIO, with host Sarah Campbell A joint production of Just Buffalo Literary Center and WBFO 88.7 FM Airs Sundays during Weekend Edition at 8:35 a.m. and Mondays during Morning Edition at 6:35 A.M. & 8:35 a.m. Upcoming Features: July 30 & 31, OLGA KARMAN Note: Olga Karman will read from and sign her book Scatter My Ashes Over Ha= vana on Thursday, August 3 at Talking Leaves, Main St. Visit our website for i= nfo: http://www.justbuffalo.org/events/cle/talkingleaves.shtml All shows are now available for download on our website, including features= on John Ashbery, Paul Auster, Lyn Hejinian, Ray Bradbury and more... http://www.justbuffalo.org/events/sar.shtml JUST BUFFALO WRITER'S CRITIQUE GROUP Members of Just Buffalo are welcome to attend a free, bi-monthly writer cri= tique group in CEPA's Flux Gallery. Group meets 1st and 3rd Wednesday at 7 p.m. Call fo= r details. Note: the critique group is on hiatus until September. Please call in Augu= st if you'd like to join up in the fall. UNSUBSCRIBE If you would like to unsubscribe from this list, just say so and you will b= e immediately removed. _______________________________ Michael Kelleher Artistic Director Just Buffalo Literary Center Market Arcade 617 Main St., Ste. 202A Buffalo, NY 14203 716.832.5400 716.270.0184 (fax) www.justbuffalo.org mjk=40justbuffalo.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 11:49:48 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: In Today's News In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 24-Jul-06, at 9:52 AM, Maria Damon wrote: > At 12:15 PM -0400 7/24/06, ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: >> ... >> >> >> On another issue, does anybody besides me find this suspect? >> Following the >> assasination of a major political leader in Lebanon just months ago, >> the US and >> the world demanded, quite rightly, that Syria remove all its troops >> from >> Lebanon. So they did (though they are suspected of leaving agents >> behind). So >> there were no Syrian army forces in Lebanon when Israel decided to >> respond to >> the Hezbollah outrage by invading and bombing. >> >> Coincidence? Perhaps . . . > > reminds me of jay leno's quip abt bush: he must be a genius, making > sure a sovereign nation is disarmed and then invading it... > > Who do you think was responsible for the assassination? Geordie Bowering Ancestors in Switzerland ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 11:55:45 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: In Today's News In-Reply-To: <200607241615.MAA26863@webmail19.cac.psu.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit One wonders if the Bush folk plan to set up a FEMA Branch in Lebanon?? How many countries will have Bush & Co. destroyed by the time this President leaves office: Iraq, Lebanon, ... All in the name of establishing a "New Middle East." What more global environmental destruction can they take credit for by ignoring and not responding to Global Warming. There is perhaps an apocryphal story that pipes and the plumbing profession were created when rising rivers - in the middle ages - brought human sewage into peoples homes, the markets, etc. No crisis, no cure. At least, I suggest, people call the White House, the Israeli Embassy, one's members of Congress and insist on an immediate cease fire so that talks can begin and that the destruction of Lebanon by US Arms and Israel immediately stop. If there is a protest demo, go. The sewage is more than rising. Stephen V > Going into the weekend, Israel was warning all citizens of southern Lebanon > that > they should leave their homes and evacuate the area. > > Yesterday, Israeli forces, in at least six incidents, fired upon people who > were > following the warnings and evacuating. In one episode, an Israeli helicopter > hit a minivan full of innocent evacuees in a missile strike. > > > On another issue, does anybody besides me find this suspect? Following the > assasination of a major political leader in Lebanon just months ago, the US > and > the world demanded, quite rightly, that Syria remove all its troops from > Lebanon. So they did (though they are suspected of leaving agents behind). > So > there were no Syrian army forces in Lebanon when Israel decided to respond to > the Hezbollah outrage by invading and bombing. > > Coincidence? Perhaps . . . > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > --Emily Dickinson > > Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > > Aldon L. Nielsen > Kelly Professor of American Literature > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 14:18:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: In Today's News Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Just reading account at a web site by a Canadian who was able to leave Lebanon by being married with his German girlfriend--the Germans being very efficient and competent in evacuating their citizens. (And Canadians, not--) The writer notes no one going to cover what is happening in Southern Lebanon--considered "suicide" to do so-- so he is sending what he saw--the Israelis tell people to flee the area--but have bombed all the roads and bridges, making escape from area next to impossible. Now the real work can begin--bombing cars and vans on the roads--hospitals bombed, school filled with refugees bombed, an entire village wiped out, all water, food and medicine is cut off--any vehicle is bombed or shot with the justification that it may be carrying weapons for Hezbollah. And since people were warned to leave, if they are staying--well, their bad. Oh yes--remember all the celebration and congratulation on the news the Syrians were lleaving? There was something very convenient in everyone believing that the Syrians had assasinated the Lebanese leader which caused this pull out. Syria always denied any connection--after all would not have been in their interest. Then whose? Check out the always magnificent woodslot blog which has great many reports and links, fotos-- http://www.ncf.ca/~ek867/wood_s_lot.html my favorite and is best blog i know of onwo/ards!! dbc >From: ALDON L NIELSEN >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: In Today's News >Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 12:15:06 -0400 > >Going into the weekend, Israel was warning all citizens of southern Lebanon >that >they should leave their homes and evacuate the area. > >Yesterday, Israeli forces, in at least six incidents, fired upon people who >were >following the warnings and evacuating. In one episode, an Israeli >helicopter >hit a minivan full of innocent evacuees in a missile strike. > > >On another issue, does anybody besides me find this suspect? Following the >assasination of a major political leader in Lebanon just months ago, the US >and >the world demanded, quite rightly, that Syria remove all its troops from >Lebanon. So they did (though they are suspected of leaving agents behind). > So >there were no Syrian army forces in Lebanon when Israel decided to respond >to >the Hezbollah outrage by invading and bombing. > >Coincidence? Perhaps . . . ><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > --Emily Dickinson > >Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > >Aldon L. Nielsen >Kelly Professor of American Literature >The Pennsylvania State University >116 Burrowes >University Park, PA 16802-6200 > >(814) 865-0091 _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 12:45:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: janesprague@CHARTER.NET Subject: Long Beach Notebook 7/29/06 @ 8PM: Benka, Kunin & Shirinyan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello list people in or near Long Beach & Los Angeles, California. Please join us for the 3rd installment of Long Beach Notebook this Saturday, July 29, at 8PM for readings by poets Aaron Kunin Jen Benka & Ara Shirinyan Aaron Kunin is the author of Folding Ruler Star (Fence Books, 2005), a collection of small poems about shame. The Mandarin, a novel, is forthcoming in 2007. He lives in California and teaches negative anthropology at Pomona College. Ara Shirinyan is writer and editor of Make Now Press in Los Angeles (www.makenow.org). He curates the Last Sunday Reading Series at the Smell in Los Angeles with Stan Apps and Teresa Carmody. His chapbook Handsome Fish Offices is due out later this year on INSERT PRESS. Jen Benka's collection, a Box of Longing With Fifty Drawers, which is comprised of one poem for each of the 52 words in the Preamble, was published by Soft Skull Press in 2005. She is also the author of the Eisner-nominated indy comic book series, Manya. She is the recipient of grants and awards from Intermedia Arts, the Poetry/Film Workshop, Wisconsin Arts Board, and the Xeric Foundation. She works as the managing director of Poets & Writers, and on the side, organizes poetry events, which have included a 24-hour marathon reading of the complete poems of Emily Dickinson, a protest reading during the 2005 Republican National Convention, and currently, a 5-night festival celebrating women poets (for more info: www.finallywithwomen.blogspot.com). She lives in New York City. *** AMERICA. an unsolved mathematical equation: land plus people divided by people minus land times ocean times forest times river. escape and the delusion of discovery: across the mad ocean to the rocky shore step foot onto land call it yours. promised land lemonade stand. auction block stew pot. the dreams: of corn field wheat field tobacco field oil of iron cage slave trade cotton plantation of hog farm dairy farm cattle ranch range of Mississippi Mason-Dixon mountains of territories salt lake lottery gold of saw mill steel mill coal mine diamond. topographic economic industry and war. a box of longing with fifty drawers. *** LONG BEACH NOTEBOOK is held at the home & office of Palm Press: 143 Ravenna Drive Long Beach, CA 90803 Use Mapquest or some other map search vehicle for best directions from your point of departure. In best traffic situations, Long Beach is about 35-40 minutes from downtown LA. Admission to this event is free. Bring food or drink & willingness to listen. If you feel like showing up a little bit early there will be a casual dinner and discussion of The Hedge School. Questions? Lost? email: palmpress@gmail.org see you there. PALM PRESS www.palmpress.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 15:50:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: In Today's News MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I have no idea -- For all I know, it could have been instigated by the Syrians -- or not -- but we do know that the contingency plans the IDF has been following have been in readiness for some time, simply awaiting the required contingency -- On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 11:49:48 +0000, George Bowering wrote: > On 24-Jul-06, at 9:52 AM, Maria Damon wrote: > > > At 12:15 PM -0400 7/24/06, ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > >> ... > >> > >> > >> On another issue, does anybody besides me find this suspect? > >> Following the > >> assasination of a major political leader in Lebanon just months ago, > >> the US and > >> the world demanded, quite rightly, that Syria remove all its troops > >> from > >> Lebanon. So they did (though they are suspected of leaving agents > >> behind). So > >> there were no Syrian army forces in Lebanon when Israel decided to > >> respond to > >> the Hezbollah outrage by invading and bombing. > >> > >> Coincidence? Perhaps . . . > > > > reminds me of jay leno's quip abt bush: he must be a genius, making > > sure a sovereign nation is disarmed and then invading it... > > > > > Who do you think was responsible for the assassination? > > > > Geordie Bowering > Ancestors in Switzerland > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 15:56:36 -0400 Reply-To: pmetres@jcu.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Philip Metres Subject: the war and black/white background MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I love how, in digest form, the conversation oscillated between discussions of the war and proper responses to it, and the pros and cons of black/white background/text. To read a digest is to experience the kind of poetic leaping that would make a surrealist blush. Anyway, about the war: if you haven't, please do check out Jewish Voice for Peace and of course Electronic Intifada and Electronic Lebanon for some progressive views and things to do (like contact our congresspeople). While we wring our hands, the zealots engage in political pressure. There's no time to feel sorry for ourselves or wonder what poetry can do--we just need to leap the gap. Philip Metres Assistant Professor Department of English John Carroll University 20700 N. Park Blvd University Heights, OH 44118 (216) 397-4528 (work) http://www.philipmetres.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 13:08:26 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Diane DiPrima Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20060723222302.02d86a60@english.upenn.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thanks, Charles. I use th"Dictionary of Classical Antiquities" & a few others here at my fingertips. But it's good to have this URL. Diane di Prima > From: Charles Bernstein > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 22:42:50 -0400 > To: > Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work > > Dear Diane, > > "Perseus" refers to > http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/ > which is a large searchable archive of classical (and later) texts > > Charles Bernstein > http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/bernstein/blog ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 16:20:33 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Clements Subject: PP/FF Reading in Brooklyn, Wednesday In-Reply-To: <20060724155636.ABU29941@mirapoint.jcu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Join us Wednesday, July 26, 7pm, at Night & Day, for our Brooklyn PP/FF Anthology Party! PP/FF is the newly released Starcherone Books anthology featuring 61 of today's leading practitioners in the in-between prose-poetry/flash-fiction form that editor Peter Conners has named "PP/FF." See http://www.starcherone.com/ppff.htm for more info on this first-of-its-kind book, ideal for creative writing classes and for just hanging around in the park reading and looking cool with in these summer dog days... Readers: Kazim Ali, Brian Clements, Peter Conners, Geoffrey Gatza, Christine Boyka Kluge, Ted Pelton, Anthony Tognazzini, Jessica Treat, & Mark Tursi. Location: Night & Day, 230 5th Ave (cross street: Presidents St.), 7pm Reader Bios: Kazim Ali is the author of a novel, Quinn's Passage, and a book of poems, The Far Mosque. He is the publisher of Nightboat Books and assistant professor of English at Shippensburg University. Brian Clements is the author of several collections of poetry in print and online, including Essays Against Ruin, Burn Whatever Will Burn, and Flesh and Wood. He is the editor of Firewheel Editions and of Sentence: A Journal of Prose Poetics, and he coordinates the MFA in Professional Writing at Western Connecticut State University. Peter Conners is founding co-editor of the online literary journal, Double Room: A Journal of Prose Poetry & Flash Fiction, as well as editor of PP/FF: An Anthology. His third poetry collection, Of Whiskey and Winter, will be published by White Pine Press in fall 2007. Conners works as Marketing Director/Associate Editor for the poetry publisher BOA Editions. He lives with his wife and two sons in Rochester, NY. Geoffrey Gatza has dedicated himself to protecting the downtrodden of his city from a continuing series of deadly poetic schemes by the insidious School of Quietude. He is editor and publisher of BlazeVOX Books. His web site is Geoffreygatza.com. Christine Boyka Kluge is the author of Teaching Bones to Fly, a poetry collection from Bitter Oleander Press, and Domestic Weather, which won the 2003 Uccelli Press Chapbook Contest. Her prose poetry and flash fiction collection, Stirring the Mirror, is due out from Bitter Oleander Press in 2007. Ted Pelton is the author of three books, most recently the novel, Malcolm & Jack (and Other Famous American Criminals) (Spuyten Duyvil, 2006). Recipient of an NEA Fellowship for Fiction, he is an Associate Professor at Medaille College of Buffalo, NY, and Executive Director of Starcherone Books. Anthony Tognazzini has published work in Swink, The Hat, Sentence, Quarterly West, Salt Hill, La Petite Zine, The Mississippi Review, Quick Fiction, Ducky, and Hayden's Ferry Review, among other journals, and in Sudden Stories: A Mammoth Anthology of Miniscule Fiction. He has received a Pushcart nomination and an award from the Academy of American Poets. He lives in Brooklyn, New York. Jessica Treat is the author of two story collections, Not a Chance (FC2, 2000) and A Robber in the House (Coffee House Press, 1993), and is completing a third. Her stories and prose poems have appeared in numerous journals and anthologies. She is the recipient of a Connecticut Commission on the Arts Award. Mark Tursi is one of the founders and editors of the literary journal Double Room, and he is an Assistant Professor at College Misericordia in Pennsylvania. He received his Ph.D. from the University of Denver and his MFA from Colorado State University. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 13:53:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: call for latin@ spoken word MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Smokin Mirrors Production in collaboration with The Human Writes Project is in the process of producing a feature length documentary which specifically deals with Latinas in the Spoken Word Movement. We will be working with 5 featured spoken word artists who will be talking about their struggles, stories, and experiences within the male-dominated world of spoken word performance; as well as showcasing their poetry throughout the film. We are looking for womyn of color spoken word poets to submit two origina pieces, under 3 minutes each in tape or mini dv format. We will be choosing a number of videos to be featured at different times within the documentary. We are asking that you send us a tape or mini DV to the following PO Box: Smokin' Mirrors Production PO BOX 86222 Los Angeles CA 90086 You can also email your footage to fran2k@pacbell.net For questions about this project please do not hesitate to contact us at: thehumanwritesproject@gmail.com You can also check out some past productions by Smokin Mirrors on their website at: www.smokinmirrors.net Smokin Mirrors Productions recently wrapped production in the 2007 film "Students Like us" about Latinos in higher education and the racism within Academic Institutions. Also Smokin Mirrors has produced and Directed videos for indie musical groups such as Quetzal, Aztlan Underground, Quinto Sol, among others... The Human Writes Project is an organization which brings together poets from all over the country to utilize spoken word and hip hop to advocate social justice and to address the social inequalities our communities are faced with. The most recent Hip Hop Theatre Performance by The Human Writes Project is called Afro-Latino-Guistics: Where Black is Brown addressing the differences and similarities within the Black and Brown communities through the means of performance... for more info on The Human Writes Project please email: thehumanwritesproject@gmail.com Creativity and Poetry, Gabriela Garcia Medin The Human Writes Project thehumanwritesproject@gmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 15:40:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nico Vassilakis Subject: subtext = p jenks + j olson Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed NOTE that this represents a partial change from our planned schedule. We're very fortunate that Philip Jenks is able to read in place of Stephen-Paul Martin. Subtext continues its monthly series of experimental writing with readings by Philip Jenks (Portland) & John Olson at Richard Hugo House on Wednesday, August 2, 2006. Donations for admission will be taken at the door on the evening of the performance. The reading starts at 7:30pm. Philip Jenks' poems have appeared in LVNG, Chicago Review, and Pulmonar. His first full-length book of poems, entitled ON THE CAVE YOU LIVE IN, was published by Flood Editions. More recently, Zephyr Press published MY FIRST PAINTING WILL BE "THE ACCUSER". He lives in Portland, OR. "Inspired speech recording its own fall into dead letter, the poems of Philip Jenks are strange, original, terrifying. A stuttered apocalypse, they affirm our fellowship with all matter while suffering divinity’s perpetual departure from our midst." -Benjamin Friedlander John Olson is the author of FREE STREAM VELOCITY (2003), a collection of prose poems, and ECHO REGIME (2000) a collection of poetry, both from Black Square Editions; EGGS & MIRRORS (1999), a chapbook of vignettes & prose poems published by local printer Paul Hunter, at Woodworks Press; and LOGO LAGOON (1999), a collection of prose poems, from Paper Brain Press in San Diego. His essays, articles, literary criticism, poetry and short stories have appeared in numerous journals, including New American Writing, Talisman, Sulfur, First Intensity, American Letters & Commentary, the American Book Review, Denver Quarterly, 3rd Bed, 5 Trope, Bird Dog, Monkey Puzzle, The Raven Chronicles, the Seattle Weekly, and The Stranger. "Dylan Goes Magenta," an essay on Bob Dylan's Tarantula, appears online at Titanic Operas. His essay "Inebriate Of Air" appears in the anthology Writing On Air, from M.I.T. Press. The future Subtext 2006 schedule is: September 6, 2006 However with Torben Ulrich/Lori Goldston; & Bill Horist/Steve Potter October 4, 2006 Mary Burger (Bay Area) & Meg McHutchison November 1, 2006 Meredith Quartermain & Peter Quartermain (both Vancouver, BC) December 6, 2006 Lidia Yuknavitch (Portland) & Emily White For info on these & other Subtext events, see our website: http://www.speakeasy.org/~subtext ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 16:36:49 -0700 Reply-To: r_loden@sbcglobal.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rachel Loden Subject: the Eliot branch (was Duncan Ground Work) In-Reply-To: <44C4EB56.6020704@adelphia.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable << The Eliot branch has gone off in another direction.>> Hi George Thompson, good to read you again-- I may not be a card-carrying member of this list--I mean in the eyes of other people. And I certainly have my moments with Tom, with "Rachel = _n=E9e_ Rabinovitch" and such.=20 But if the Eliot branch has gone off in another direction, and can't = find its way home, that would be nothing but an impoverishment for our tribe. = So I devoutly hope it isn't so. Besotted with both Eliot and WCW, Rachel L. P.S. A small counterexample: DEAR POSSUM I thought death had undone about that many. A few more, a few less. It = was hard to miss them at the post office. But there are master lists of the undone, databases. You can look them = up on Google. Insurance companies maintain them.=20 South of San Francisco there=92s an entire city of the dead, called = Colma. You can see it from the freeway. Wyatt Earp is undone there, in his Stetson. --Rachel Loden from _The Richard Nixon Snow Globe_ Wild Honey Press http://www.wildhoneypress.com/ George Thompson wrote: George Bowering wrote: "That's odd, because back in the early sixties Duncan told me and my = friends to read Eliot, reluctant as we WCW fans were." Hello George, I just read these lines from *Bending the Bow* the other day ["passages = 24", p.78]: Down this dark corridor, "this passage," the poet reminds me, and now that Eliot is dead, Williams and H.D. dead, Ezra alone of my old masters alive, let me acknowledge Eliot was one of them, I was one of his, whose "History has many cunning passages, contrived corridors" comes into the chrestomathy. When I said "Of course, as far as this list is concerned Eliot was a dead-end," what I meant was that the Poetics List in general belongs to = the "Williams" branch of the poetic tree. The Eliot branch has gone off in another direction. Maybe I'm wrong about this, but I've been reading = this list for years and I don't recall very much interest in Eliot. By the = way, the reason why I am on this list is that I have belonged to the = "Williams" branch too. Also, Diane, I apologize for the confusion. I don't have the passage at hand, so I'm the one who is confused. But in any case, the discussion = has gotten me to re-read Duncan and Hesiod, and that is good. I've been thinking a lot about Duncan, and San Francisco, and Berkeley, lately. Best to you both, George ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 20:37:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: the war and black/white background Comments: To: pmetres@jcu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Thanks for the site references Philip. Mairead Mair=E9ad Byrne Associate Professor of English Rhode Island School of Design 2 College Street Providence, RI 02903 www.wildhoneypress.com www.maireadbyrne.blogspot.com >>> Philip Metres 07/24/06 3:56 PM >>> I love how, in digest form, the conversation oscillated=20 between discussions of the war and proper responses to it,=20 and the pros and cons of black/white background/text. To=20 read a digest is to experience the kind of poetic leaping=20 that would make a surrealist blush. Anyway, about the war: if you haven't, please do check out=20 Jewish Voice for Peace and of course Electronic Intifada and=20 Electronic Lebanon for some progressive views and things to=20 do (like contact our congresspeople). While we wring our=20 hands, the zealots engage in political pressure. There's no=20 time to feel sorry for ourselves or wonder what poetry can=20 do--we just need to leap the gap. Philip Metres Assistant Professor Department of English John Carroll University 20700 N. Park Blvd University Heights, OH 44118 (216) 397-4528 (work) http://www.philipmetres.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 04:22:23 -0700 Reply-To: r_loden@sbcglobal.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rachel Loden Subject: "What the Gravedigger Needs" from new NAW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If you're so inclined, one of my poems from the new issue of New = American Writing is at Poetry Daily today and afterwards for a year in the = archives: http://www.poems.com/ John Latta and Todd Swift talk about the issue here and here: http://isola-di-rifiuti.blogspot.com/2006/07/pinned.html http://toddswift.blogspot.com/2006/07/new-american-writing-24.html How to get a copy of NAW from the editors, Maxine Chernoff and Paul = Hoover: New American Writing 24 (2006) has just been published and can be = ordered directly=A0from New American Writing, 369 Molino Avenue, Mill Valley, CA 94941, for $13 ($2 off the cover price). =A0 You can save $3 an issue, a total savings of $9,=A0by ordering a = subscription for three annual issues.=A0 To do so, send a check for $36 to the above address.=A0 =A0 To use a credit a card, order single copies=A0or = subscriptions=A0online=A0through the NAW website, www.newamericanwriting.com.=A0=20 =A0 The 220 page issue contains a=A0generous Nathaniel Mackey feature = including "The Atmosphere is Alive," an interview with the poet by Sarah Rosenthal = and a=A0representative selection of his poetry and prose. =A0 Also featured are translations of the poetry of Pura Lopez-Colome (Jason Stumpf), Pablo Neruda (Clayton Eshleman), Aase Berg (Johannes = Gorranson), Vladimir Holan Josef Horacek & Lara Glenum), Yang=A0Jian (Wang Ping and = Alex Lemon), Yao Feng (Christopher Kelen), Eugenio Montejo (Kirk Nesset), and eight poems of Nguyen Trai,=A01380-1442, one of Vietnam's greatest poets (Nguyen Do=A0& Paul Hoover). =A0 As=A0always,=A0poetry in electrifying English:=A0=A0Pierre Joris, = Rosmarie Waldrop, Clayton Eshleman, Mac Wellman, Karen Garthe,=A0Martine Bellen, Rusty = Morrison, Joanna Klink, Edward Smallfield,=A0Joseph Lease, Brian Teare,=A0 Diane = Newman, G.C. Waldrep, John Olson, Campbell McGrath, Devin Johnston, Lisa = Isaacson, Ethan Paquin, Douglas Messerli, Caroline Knox, Rachel Loden, Terence = Winch, Todd Swift, Patrick Pritchett, Craig Watson, Stephen Vincent, = Fred=A0Marchant, Valerie Coulton, Maged Zaher, Carol Ciavonne,=A0Sandra Park, Curtis = Bonney, George Kalamaras, Daneen=A0Wardrop, Katie Degentesh, Michael Magee, = Sharon Mesmer, Susan Maxwell, Barbara Jane Reyes, Susen James, Noelle Kocot, = Chad Faries, Nathan Hauke, John Sakkis, Daniel=A0Tiffany, Max Winter, James = Meetze, Lori Shine, and Andrew Early. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 11:58:01 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Ciccariello Subject: "this-is-not-poetry" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ** The word made plastic. "this-is-not-poetry" http://tinyurl.com/r5uvo -- Peter Ciccariello http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 09:43:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: This Friday @ Stain Bar in Brooklyn -- Huth, Kaufman, & Vassilakis In-Reply-To: <8f3fdbad0607250858x41518829p2e6504f50f38d78d@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Geof Huth, Erica Kaufman, & Nico Vassilakis Mipo Reading Series (hosted by Amy King) @ stain bar Friday, July 28, 7PM 766 grand street (L to Grand, 1 block west) ____ Geof Huth is a writer of textual and visual poetry. He writes frequently about visual poetry, especially on his weblog, dbqp: visualizing poetics . His chapbooks include Analphabet, The Dreams of the Fishwife, ghostlight, Peristyle, To a Small Stream of Water (or Ditch) , and wreadings. Huth recently edited &2: an/thology of pwoermds, the first-ever anthology of one-word poems. His most recent book was a box of pages entitled water vapour. Next up is the chapbook Out of Water from Paper Kite Press. Erica Kaufman co-curates the belladonna* reading series/small press and is the author of the chapbooks: from the two coat syndrome , the kickboxer suite, and a familiar album (winner of the 2003 New School Chapbook Contest). Her poems have appeared in or are forthcoming in Puppy Flowers, Bombay Gin, The Mississippi Review, Jubilat, Good Foot, CARVE, and elsewhere. Nico Vassilakis lives in Seattle where he is a member of SubText. A father of one Radio. And working on a play about Morton Feldman to be presented in August. Recent chapbooks include Askew (bcc press), The Amputation of L Mendax (Writers Forum), & SPIECES PIECES (gong press). His concrete/visual poetry can be found electronically sprinkled on internet. ____ *stain *766 grand street brooklyn, ny 11211 (L to Grand, 1 block west) 718/387-7840 daily 5 p.m. http://www.stainbar.com/ *STAIN *is a unique arts lounge* *dedicated to local products and talent. Hope to see you there! Amy King & Didi Menendez MiPOesias -- http://www.mipoesias.com MiPOradio -- http://www.miporadio.net/index1.html Reading Series -- http://miporeadingseries.blogspot.com/ Managing Editor -- http://www.amyking.org/blog --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 12:53:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Kane Subject: Alvin Curran in "Ostensibly"? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone by any chance know the Alvin Curran score that opens - and runs through most of - Rudy Burckhardt's film "Ostensibly?" I'm not familiar with much of Curran's music, but I love the piece that Burckhardt chose to accompany the images. Thanks in advance, --daniel ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 11:55:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work In-Reply-To: <54AA9B41BC35F34EAD02E660901D8A5A07ACB321@TLRUSMNEAGMBX10.ERF.THOMSON.COM> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I hear ya, Diane, re: Hesiod and his swinish attitude toward women -- = not what I'm into either, though myth generally is such a joy to splash = around in.=20 found an Empedocles site, in case anyone's still looking for the line = Duncan uses: http://classicpersuasion.org/pw/empedocles/empunib.htm what I could see of the text seems to lack the word "eris." instead, we = find =ED=E5=DF=EA=EF=F2 neikos "struggle, quarrel, wrangle, dispute" as in:=20 Now grows The One from Many into being, now Even from the One disparting come the Many,- Fire, Water, Earth and awful heights of Air; And shut from them apart, the deadly _Strife_ In equipoise, and Love within their midst In all her being in length and breadth the same. (trans. William Ellery Leonard) .... re: Eliot/Williams dichotomy okay, George, tagging this list as "Williamsesque" seems appropriate, = from what I've seen... being myself a recovering Eliotist (it lingers in = the blood like malaria), are there really still Eliot-heads out there? = or did his influence die with him? =20 or, by asking these questions, do I indulge in a mode of = simplistic/bipolar pigeonholing? am just trying to get a handle on the = various poetic streams of the 20th century, coming as I do from Mars = and/or Classical Studies.=20 trying hard=20 not to slip on the rocks=20 when I step in the same stream twice.=20 tl -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] = On Behalf Of george thompson Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 10:47 George Bowering wrote: Maybe I'm wrong about this, but I've been reading this list for years = and I don't recall very much interest in Eliot. By the way, the reason = why I am on this list is that I have belonged to the "Williams" branch = too. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 10:27:11 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Diane DiPrima Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work In-Reply-To: <54AA9B41BC35F34EAD02E660901D8A5A07ACB322@TLRUSMNEAGMBX10.ERF.THOMSON.COM> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="windows-1254" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi Tom, It's not the women thing, exactly--that's more a symptom than the diesease itself. Which I would diagnose as a basic dourness. . . Hard to put into words. BTW, dourness might be the term for Eliot too. Don't know. I remember first reading him in high school at 15 and feeling sorry for the guy, and more than a bit annoyed at his insistence on GLUM. (On the personal level, I guess I'd OD'ed on "glum" at home, being a depression child.) Enough for now. D. di P. > From: "Tom W. Lewis" > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 11:55:18 -0500 > To: > Conversation: Duncan Ground Work > Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work > > I hear ya, Diane, re: Hesiod and his swinish attitude toward women -- not what > I'm into either, though myth generally is such a joy to splash around in. > > found an Empedocles site, in case anyone's still looking for the line Duncan > uses: http://classicpersuasion.org/pw/empedocles/empunib.htm > > what I could see of the text seems to lack the word "eris." instead, we find > > ?????? neikos "struggle, quarrel, wrangle, dispute" > > as in: > > Now grows > The One from Many into being, now > Even from the One disparting come the Many,- > Fire, Water, Earth and awful heights of Air; > And shut from them apart, the deadly _Strife_ > In equipoise, and Love within their midst > In all her being in length and breadth the same. > > (trans. William Ellery Leonard) > > .... > > re: Eliot/Williams dichotomy > > okay, George, tagging this list as "Williamsesque" seems appropriate, from > what I've seen... being myself a recovering Eliotist (it lingers in the blood > like malaria), are there really still Eliot-heads out there? or did his > influence die with him? > > or, by asking these questions, do I indulge in a mode of simplistic/bipolar > pigeonholing? am just trying to get a handle on the various poetic streams of > the 20th century, coming as I do from Mars and/or Classical Studies. > > trying hard > not to slip on the rocks > when I step in the same stream twice. > > tl > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > Behalf Of george thompson > Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 10:47 > > George Bowering wrote: > > Maybe I'm wrong about this, but I've been reading this list for years and I > don't recall very much interest in Eliot. By the way, the reason why I am on > this list is that I have belonged to the "Williams" branch too. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 15:11:23 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adeena Karasick Subject: upcoming readings in Toronto MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If anyone's going to be in Toronto, in the next few weeks, get some relief from the summer heat and come to my shows!!!! it wd be great to see u Aug. 26, 2006 PAL Green Room, 110 The Esplanade Toronto, Ontario Info: 416-362-1753 8:00 pm Sat. Sept. 2, 2006 Ashkenaz Festival Harborfront Theatre Toronto, Ontario 8:00 pm Showcasing internationally acclaimed poet, Adeena Karasick, the luminous slide and video projections of Blaine Speigel and the layered compositions of T elefunk Sound System (Dan Driscoll and Steve Richman), this polyglossic performance features a homolinguistic translation of the "oldest and most mysterious" of all Kabbalistic texts, The Sefer Yetzirah (Book of Creation). Through a process of recombination and permutation of letters, sounds, rhythms, textures, this translation or "trance hallucination" will present an audible reverberation of an intra-lingual, cultural and geo-poetic history, experienced though a fragmented network of echoes, traces, ghostly remnants, sites of desire. Layering the poetic translations of the Aramaic, ancient and modern Hebrew with English, this performance will pay homage to how this sacred Kabbalistic tome (which details the creation of the universe through letters), pulses through our every day lives. In the beginning there was repetition, reproduction. translation. www.adeenakarasick.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 17:38:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Diane,=20 > I remember first reading him in high school at 15 and feeling sorry for=20 > the guy, and more than a bit annoyed at his insistence on GLUM. age 15 was about when I started reading him, too, but I recognized my surroundings in what Eliot was writing -- suburban central California under Gov. Pete Wilson made an all-too-real backdrop for the Waste Land, the Hollow Men, Prufrock -- "I had not thought death had undone so many," etc.=20 with its pound of high-falutin' erudition, a lot of angst and glumness, and toss with sprinkles of Wagner, Tarot, Sanskrit, you-name-it: I was hooked.=20 but a person grows up and moves on to deeper waters and brighter vistas, at least in my experience. now I'm having a hard time appreciating all the Classical references in all those Modern writers -- why is "MAKE IT NEW" chained to the ancient world? or is Antiquity the IT?=20 before I quit it, before I tie and tie it quick to I and thee and ante qua -- time=20 enough for still a cup of tea. you said it: enough for now.=20 tl -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Diane DiPrima Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 12:27 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work Hi Tom, It's not the women thing, exactly--that's more a symptom than the diesease itself. Which I would diagnose as a basic dourness. . . Hard to put into words. BTW, dourness might be the term for Eliot too. Don't know. I remember first reading him in high school at 15 and feeling sorry for the guy, and more than a bit annoyed at his insistence on GLUM. (On the personal level, I guess I'd OD'ed on "glum" at home, being a depression child.) Enough for now. D. di P. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 15:47:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work In-Reply-To: <54AA9B41BC35F34EAD02E660901D8A5A07ACB326@TLRUSMNEAGMBX10.ERF.THOMSON.COM> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Tue, 25 Jul 2006, Tom W. Lewis wrote: >now I'm having a hard time appreciating all > the Classical references in all those Modern writers -- why is "MAKE IT > NEW" chained to the ancient world? or is Antiquity the IT? I've thought that that was kind of strange too, particularly since pound is the worst classicist of them all. I'd never considered it before, but i think you might be on to something there. An "IT=Roman/Hellenic culture" formulation would certainly do some work for me towards understanding The Cantos. That having been said, I was fifteen when I read The Hollow Men and Ash Wednesday, which were my first forays into Eliot. Maybe TS Eliot is the fifteen year olds' modernist. Although a friend of mine's son is completely enamored with Prufrock to the point that he's trying to memorize it, and he's only ten. end non sequitur. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 18:07:54 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Eliot loved English music hall--has an essay on it-- in a funny way he's a bit like the Beatles when it comes to doing pop songs--even with glumness, he has that kind of pop song quality to his sounds, rhymes--images--very easy to hear and get stuck in one's head-- >From: Jason Quackenbush >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work >Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 15:47:50 -0700 > >On Tue, 25 Jul 2006, Tom W. Lewis wrote: >>now I'm having a hard time appreciating all >>the Classical references in all those Modern writers -- why is "MAKE IT >>NEW" chained to the ancient world? or is Antiquity the IT? > >I've thought that that was kind of strange too, particularly since pound is >the worst classicist of them all. I'd never considered it before, but i >think you might be on to something there. An "IT=Roman/Hellenic culture" >formulation would certainly do some work for me towards understanding The >Cantos. > >That having been said, I was fifteen when I read The Hollow Men and Ash >Wednesday, which were my first forays into Eliot. Maybe TS Eliot is the >fifteen year olds' modernist. Although a friend of mine's son is completely >enamored with Prufrock to the point that he's trying to memorize it, and >he's only ten. > >end non sequitur. _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 19:27:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit leve ole ts anti semiteliot alone let us go then you and i ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 17:56:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work In-Reply-To: <54AA9B41BC35F34EAD02E660901D8A5A07ACB326@TLRUSMNEAGMBX10.ERF.THOMSON.COM> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I keep listening to this interesting (Pound, Eliot, WCW) discussion with another (scorched!) ear to what we now hear from contemporary Lebanon, Israel. Eliot in Lebanon. In Israel. WCW or Pound in both or either. The improvisatory character of WCW's prosody - and his enthusiasm to be in an open dialog with 'the other' would perhaps work best, if at all. Titles like Kora in Hell, and The Wasteland, however, seem possibly spot-on. How to embrace facts on the ground into a 'poetic clarity' - however that is done - without becoming a journalistic media hit man (i.e., transitional) seems the challenge. But as either both teacher and/or poet, it's intriguing, I think, to face the challenge of embracing these new spaces/cultures with which we are now conjoined (such a horror filled embrace with which our bizarre leaders have given us over). It invites issues of tone and prosody and how to employ or un-employ the inheritances (literary) that we have been given. I and some friends have been reading a bunch of Euripides' tragedies, The Trojan Women, Electra, The Bacchae - as mandarin as superficially that might seem. The work is so contemporary to this time, I think his ghost must be floating around the bedrooms, hearts and souls of all our current favorite folks in court or out. Such a pleasure to read. Stephen Vincent http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ > Diane, > >> I remember first reading him in high school at 15 and feeling sorry > for >> the guy, and more than a bit annoyed at his insistence on GLUM. > > age 15 was about when I started reading him, too, but I recognized my > surroundings in what Eliot was writing -- suburban central California > under Gov. Pete Wilson made an all-too-real backdrop for the Waste Land, > the Hollow Men, Prufrock -- "I had not thought death had undone so > many," etc. > > with its pound of high-falutin' erudition, a lot of angst and glumness, > and toss with sprinkles of Wagner, Tarot, Sanskrit, you-name-it: I was > hooked. > > but a person grows up and moves on to deeper waters and brighter vistas, > at least in my experience. now I'm having a hard time appreciating all > the Classical references in all those Modern writers -- why is "MAKE IT > NEW" chained to the ancient world? or is Antiquity the IT? > > before I quit > it, before I tie > and tie it quick > to I and thee and > ante qua -- time > enough for still > a cup of tea. > > > you said it: enough for now. > > tl > > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] > On Behalf Of Diane DiPrima > Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 12:27 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work > > Hi Tom, > > It's not the women thing, exactly--that's more a symptom than the > diesease > itself. Which I would diagnose as a basic dourness. . . Hard to put into > words. > > > BTW, dourness might be the term for Eliot too. Don't know. I remember > first > reading him in high school at 15 and feeling sorry for the guy, and more > than a bit annoyed at his insistence on GLUM. (On the personal level, I > guess I'd OD'ed on "glum" at home, being a depression child.) > > Enough for now. > > D. di P. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 20:29:35 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: elen Subject: FW: GRANTS: creative capital/andy warhol foundation arts writers' grant program MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>GRANTS: creative capital/andy warhol foundation arts writers' grant program =============================================== Creative Capital/Andy Warhol Foundation Arts Writers' Grant Program Deadline: September 18, 2006 The Andy Warhol Foundation for the Visual Arts ( http://www.warholfoundation.org/ ) has announced the launch of a new initiative for arts writers to be administered by Creative Capital ( http://www.creative-capital.org/ ). The Creative Capital/Andy Warhol Foundation Arts Writers Grant Program is a three-year initiative designed to support writers working on contemporary art. The program aims to promote critical discourse that is both rigorous and accessible, to foster innovation in arts writing, and to encourage writing that nurtures connections between art and the public at large. The program will recognize and support the contribution of individual arts writers through project-based grants ranging from $3,000 to $50,000 each. The program will support approximately twenty projects per annual grant cycle. Awards will be given for book projects, essays, and experiments in new forms and media (Internet, radio, broadcast, etc.). Contemporary art historians, critics, curators, journalists, and experts from other disciplines who focus on the visual arts are invited to apply. Applicants must be a United States citizen, permanent resident of the United States, or possessor of an O-1 visa; at least 25 years of age; and a published author (work published in college news- papers and undergraduate student-run publications will not be considered toward this requirement). Applicants cannot be a full-time student in a degree-granting undergraduate or masters program or its equivalent at the time of application. Please note, however, that Ph.D. students are eligible to apply. The Creative Capital/Andy Warhol Foundation Arts Writers' Grant Program is part of the Andy Warhol Foundation's new Arts Writing Initiative, a three-year, $3 million pilot program to support independent, progressive, nonprofit arts publications and individual arts writers. See the Creative Capital Web site for complete program guide- lines. The application will be posted online on August 14, 2006. RFP Link: http://fconline.foundationcenter.org/pnd/10003515/creative-capital ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 21:13:29 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: Cornstarch Figurine Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Dear Friends, I have a new book out from Dusie Press, a new press based in Switzerland and run by the poet Susana Gardner. It's the first book from this press. It's poems (134 pages of em) I wrote 1992-2002, many of them side by side with the ones in Chantry (indeed they are sister-books). If you are interested, there are excerpts here http://elizabethtreadwell.com/elizabeth/html/online_work.html and Dusie Press is here http://www.dusie.org/dusiepress.html. That's all! If you'd rather not get such announcements, please just let me know. Warm regards, Elizabeth Elizabeth Treadwell http://elizabethtreadwell.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 00:24:56 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lucas Klein Subject: test MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My posts have not been coming through recently. Any idea why? Lucas ________________________________________ "There are two ways of knowing, under standing and over bearing. The first is called wisdom. The second is called winning arguments." -Kenneth Rexroth Lucas Klein LKlein@cipherjournal.com 216 Willow Street New Haven, CT 06511 ph: 203 676 0629 www.CipherJournal.com www.CipherJournal.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 00:31:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: george thompson Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The thing that is important about Eliot is that he first articulated a Wasteland account of early 20th century Euro-culture. He perceived and articulated better than anyone else before him, I think, the collapse of all Euro claims to moral, ethical, and aesthitic primacy. No, he knew damned well that we had become "the hollow men." And here we are a hundred years later, and still the hollow men lead us: Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, el al. What was grotesque then is still grotesque now. Where I parted with him was his turn to conseravtive Christianity, and to its conservative aesthetic. In my view, he stepped up to the abyss, and then stepped back from it. He couldn't jump. Not very different from most of us really. George ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 10:26:55 +0530 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 24 Jul 2006 to 25 Jul 2006 (#2006-207) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Please check out Jesse Crockett's new poetics journal listenlight.net , I have some new work there along with some others christine hamm erica kaufman marcus civin guillermo parra thank you kari edwards -- transSubmutation http://transdada3.blogspot.com/ NEW!!! obedience Poetry Factory School. 2005. 86 pages, perfect bound, 6.5x9. ISBN: 1-60001-044-X $12 / $10 direct order Description: obedience, the fourth book by kari edwards, offers a rhythmic disruption of the relative real, a progressive troubling of the phenomenal world, from gross material to the infinitesimal. The book's intention is a transformative mantric dismantling of being. http://www.factoryschool.org/pubs/heretical/index.html http://www.spdbooks.org/SearchResults.asp?AuthorTitle=edwards%2C+kari ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 21:08:04 +1000 Reply-To: k.zervos@griffith.edu.au Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "kom9os@bigpond.net.au" Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work Comments: cc: Diane DiPrima Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit this has nothing to do with the thread, but, just writing to say my class and i watched 'gang of souls' today and loved what you had to say, especially your performances. 'get your cut throat - off my knife' cheers komninos ---- Diane DiPrima wrote: ============= Thanks, Charles. I use th"Dictionary of Classical Antiquities" & a few others here at my fingertips. But it's good to have this URL. Diane di Prima > From: Charles Bernstein > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 22:42:50 -0400 > To: > Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work > > Dear Diane, > > "Perseus" refers to > http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/ > which is a large searchable archive of classical (and later) texts > > Charles Bernstein > http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/bernstein/blog ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 13:40:53 +0200 Reply-To: argotist@fsmail.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Side Subject: John M. Bennett essay by Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino at The Argotist Online Comments: To: British Poetics , WRYTING Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Essay on John M. Bennett by Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino at The Argotist Online: http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Thomasino%20essay%203.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 14:31:58 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ian davidson Subject: Skald 23 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Friends Just when you thought the summer couldn’t get any hotter here comes Skald 23. Cool enough to handle after a slight delay in distribution but with 40 pages of insides that will steam open an e-mail account. Don’t let them get away with it; turn up the heat with work from (in order of appearance) Peter Riley David Lloyd John Tanner mIEKAL aND Stuart Carlton Kit Fryatt Loren Kleinman Christine Kennedy & David Kennedy Emily Critchley David Bircumshaw Chris Bendon M.A. Schaffner Rhys Geraint Trimble Fiona Owen Single Issues £2, 4 euros or $5. Two issue subscription £4, 8 euros, $10. Send your money to Skald, 6 Hill Street, Menai Bridge, Anglesey, LL59 5AG, Wales, UK. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 08:18:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: aaron tieger Subject: ric caddel wikipedia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Does anyone know who wrote the Ric Caddel entry on Wikipedia? aarontieger.blogspot.com carvepoems.org soonproductions.org "Make a sudden, destructive unpredictable action; incorporate." (Brian Eno) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 08:24:57 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: Smell Reading/Performance July 30th MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You are invited to a reading/enactment of much strange theatre at the smell next Sunday, July 30th. Doors will open at 6:30, with a $5 contribution to support artistes. Plays The Mummer's Play by Vanessa Place starring Christine Wertheim, Matias Viegener, Teresa Carmody, Vanessa Place, and Maude Place as Twing Twang Bad Fuggums by Joseph Mosconi starring Andrew Maxwell, Rita Gonzalez, and Joseph Mosconi Rootbots by Matt Timmons starring Steph Rioux, Stan Apps, and Matt Timmons excerpts from Conduction in the Catacombs by Will Alexander starring Tova Cooper and Alison McDonell Optimist Meets Pessimist by Stan Apps starring Brook Haley and Jen Rust What Do You Know of Ghosts? by K. Lorraine Graham starring K. Lorraine Graham and Mark Wallace sections from Dark Carnival by Mark Wallace starring K. Lorraine Graham and Mark Wallace Balm to Bilk by Rodrigo Toscano starring K. Lorraine Graham and Mark Wallace Monkeys in the House by Harold Abramowitz starring Steph Rioux, Stan Apps, and Matt Timmons ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 09:08:49 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adam Fieled Subject: "america: sham democracy", etc. on Stoning the Devil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit New on "Stoning the Devil" (http://www.adamfieled.blogspot.com): -- "Why America is a sham democracy" --"Publishing overseas/ "poetic insurance policies"" --"What's on Adam's i-pod" --"Adam's Big Star pastiche" --"Cafe Cafe" much more.... --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 11:46:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: Skald 23 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i thought i was in skald 23 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 12:08:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: Error on Ron Silliman's Blog Comments: To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" , WOM-PO@LISTS.USM.MAINE.EDU, Lucifer Poetics Group MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please note that in today's commentary on his blog, Ron placed a link into his text that is meant to stand as an example of my criticism. He linked it to a very weird essay by Carlo Parcelli called "House Nigga, Field Nigga." I did not write that essay. Gabe -- __________________________________ http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com ---------------------------------- Gabriel Gudding Department of English Illinois State University Normal, Illinois 61790 309.438.5284 (office) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 10:14:33 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: Error on Ron Silliman's Blog In-Reply-To: <44C7A193.10606@ilstu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed How very strange, I was just reading that essay yesterday after having found it at random through a google search and shaking my head at how bizarre it was. I think i like it taken as a creative work, but pretty much completely disagree with the premise, if I understand it at all. Which maybe i don't. Yeah, I like it. For those who read this should/after Silliman fixes the link, the essay in question is: http://www.flashpointmag.com/house.htm On Wed, 26 Jul 2006, Gabriel Gudding wrote: > Please note that in today's commentary on his blog, Ron placed a link into his > text that is meant to stand as an example of my criticism. He linked it to a > very weird essay by Carlo Parcelli called "House Nigga, Field Nigga." > > I did not write that essay. > > Gabe > > -- > __________________________________ > http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com > ---------------------------------- > Gabriel Gudding > Department of English > Illinois State University > Normal, Illinois 61790 > 309.438.5284 (office) > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 13:21:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adam Morey Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit i feel like reading duncan while paying attention to the war is most powerful. the passages in bending the bow and in groundwork II especially. > I keep listening to this interesting (Pound, Eliot, WCW) discussion with > another (scorched!) ear to what we now hear from contemporary Lebanon, > Israel. > Eliot in Lebanon. In Israel. > WCW or Pound in both or either. > The improvisatory character of WCW's prosody - and his enthusiasm to be in > an open dialog with 'the other' would perhaps work best, if at all. > Titles like Kora in Hell, and The Wasteland, however, seem possibly > spot-on. > > How to embrace facts on the ground into a 'poetic clarity' - however that > is > done - without becoming a journalistic media hit man (i.e., transitional) > seems the challenge. > > But as either both teacher and/or poet, it's intriguing, I think, to face > the challenge of embracing these new spaces/cultures with which we are now > conjoined (such a horror filled embrace with which our bizarre leaders > have > given us over). It invites issues of tone and prosody and how to employ or > un-employ the inheritances (literary) that we have been given. > > I and some friends have been reading a bunch of Euripides' tragedies, The > Trojan Women, Electra, The Bacchae - as mandarin as superficially that > might > seem. The work is so contemporary to this time, I think his ghost must be > floating around the bedrooms, hearts and souls of all our current favorite > folks in court or out. Such a pleasure to read. > > Stephen Vincent > http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ > > >> Diane, >> >>> I remember first reading him in high school at 15 and feeling sorry >> for >>> the guy, and more than a bit annoyed at his insistence on GLUM. >> >> age 15 was about when I started reading him, too, but I recognized my >> surroundings in what Eliot was writing -- suburban central California >> under Gov. Pete Wilson made an all-too-real backdrop for the Waste Land, >> the Hollow Men, Prufrock -- "I had not thought death had undone so >> many," etc. >> >> with its pound of high-falutin' erudition, a lot of angst and glumness, >> and toss with sprinkles of Wagner, Tarot, Sanskrit, you-name-it: I was >> hooked. >> >> but a person grows up and moves on to deeper waters and brighter vistas, >> at least in my experience. now I'm having a hard time appreciating all >> the Classical references in all those Modern writers -- why is "MAKE IT >> NEW" chained to the ancient world? or is Antiquity the IT? >> >> before I quit >> it, before I tie >> and tie it quick >> to I and thee and >> ante qua -- time >> enough for still >> a cup of tea. >> >> >> you said it: enough for now. >> >> tl >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] >> On Behalf Of Diane DiPrima >> Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 12:27 >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work >> >> Hi Tom, >> >> It's not the women thing, exactly--that's more a symptom than the >> diesease >> itself. Which I would diagnose as a basic dourness. . . Hard to put into >> words. >> >> >> BTW, dourness might be the term for Eliot too. Don't know. I remember >> first >> reading him in high school at 15 and feeling sorry for the guy, and more >> than a bit annoyed at his insistence on GLUM. (On the personal level, I >> guess I'd OD'ed on "glum" at home, being a depression child.) >> >> Enough for now. >> >> D. di P. > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 13:46:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: Error on Ron Silliman's Blog MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I can see why Gudding wouldn't want people to think he was the author of that essay -- among other things, because he's one of the targets of Parcelli's bile in the piece. Having just listened to that speech by Malcolm X again, I found Carlo's use of the figure all the more bizarre. (Anybody here old enough to remember the inane "student as nigger" pamphlet that made the rounds in the 60s? I recall one of my friends a few years back, seeing yet another phenomenon on the order of Carlo's essay, responding to the effect that "now everybody's a nigga except us black folk.") I, too, watched Andrei Codrescu perform his odd audience act in Baltimore back then -- maybe the same night Carlo is remembering -- I also attended readings by Carlo himself, and have read some of his books -- Tried to talk to him once when he was working at a book store south of Dupont Circle -- can't say it was an experience that encouraged me to try again -- On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 10:14:33 +0000, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > How very strange, I was just reading that essay yesterday after having found it at random through a google search and shaking my head at how bizarre it was. I think i like it taken as a creative work, but pretty much completely disagree with the premise, if I understand it at all. Which maybe i don't. Yeah, I like it. > > For those who read this should/after Silliman fixes the link, the essay in question is: http://www.flashpointmag.com/house.htm > > On Wed, 26 Jul 2006, Gabriel Gudding wrote: > > > Please note that in today's commentary on his blog, Ron placed a link into his > > text that is meant to stand as an example of my criticism. He linked it to a > > very weird essay by Carlo Parcelli called "House Nigga, Field Nigga." > > > > I did not write that essay. > > > > Gabe > > > > -- > > __________________________________ > > http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com > > ---------------------------------- > > Gabriel Gudding > > Department of English > > Illinois State University > > Normal, Illinois 61790 > > 309.438.5284 (office) > > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 12:57:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Error on Ron Silliman's Blog In-Reply-To: <200607261746.NAA16210@webmail19.cac.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" i found said parcelli essay to be the workings of a disturbed mind, of no real analytic value. At 1:46 PM -0400 7/26/06, ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: >I can see why Gudding wouldn't want people to think he was the author of that >essay -- among other things, because he's one of the targets of >Parcelli's bile >in the piece. > >Having just listened to that speech by Malcolm X again, I found Carlo's use of >the figure all the more bizarre. (Anybody here old enough to remember the >inane "student as nigger" pamphlet that made the rounds in the 60s? I recall >one of my friends a few years back, seeing yet another phenomenon on the order >of Carlo's essay, responding to the effect that "now everybody's a >nigga except >us black folk.") > >I, too, watched Andrei Codrescu perform his odd audience act in Baltimore back >then -- maybe the same night Carlo is remembering -- I also attended readings >by Carlo himself, and have read some of his books -- Tried to talk to him once >when he was working at a book store south of Dupont Circle -- can't say it was >an experience that encouraged me to try again -- > >On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 10:14:33 +0000, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > >> How very strange, I was just reading that essay yesterday after having found >it at random through a google search and shaking my head at how >bizarre it was. >I think i like it taken as a creative work, but pretty much >completely disagree >with the premise, if I understand it at all. Which maybe i don't. Yeah, I like >it. >> >> For those who read this should/after Silliman fixes the link, the essay in >question is: http://www.flashpointmag.com/house.htm >> >> On Wed, 26 Jul 2006, Gabriel Gudding wrote: >> >> > Please note that in today's commentary on his blog, Ron placed a link into >his >> > text that is meant to stand as an example of my criticism. He >>linked it to a > >> > very weird essay by Carlo Parcelli called "House Nigga, Field Nigga." >> > >> > I did not write that essay. >> > >> > Gabe >> > >> > -- >> > __________________________________ >> > http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com >> > ---------------------------------- >> > Gabriel Gudding >> > Department of English >> > Illinois State University >> > Normal, Illinois 61790 >> > 309.438.5284 (office) >> > >> >> > ><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > --Emily Dickinson > >Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > >Aldon L. Nielsen >Kelly Professor of American Literature >The Pennsylvania State University >116 Burrowes >University Park, PA 16802-6200 > >(814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 11:31:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: Error on Ron Silliman's Blog In-Reply-To: <200607261746.NAA16210@webmail19.cac.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Carlo of course was kicked off this list... a while back... when the = list was more about discussing, and, from what I recall, heated defenses of = the seemingly insupportable essay would now be flashing in and out of our mailboxes, pointing at various people. Silliman's fixed his link, which was to be to an eight? year old essay = of Gabe's,=20 http://www.flashpointmag.com/guddin~1.htm made me wonder between S's "tastelessness" in G, vs. KSM's and others' vision for flarf and search-engine-sourced-poetry characteristics they'd deem "flarfiness" which KSM relates to workshop competencies, badness, = etc. It is interesting, in this light, to read the female modernists such as Ridge, Scott, etc. plus the (female) Monroe Poetry crowd as = non-(EL)Masters, Lindsays, Sandburgs, falling back into sonnet and song -- to prove competency, perhaps, one is always asked to prove competency -- but Eliolliams did it differently. All best, Catherine Daly ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 14:49:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Suzanne Burns Subject: Re: Error on Ron Silliman's Blog In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On 7/26/06, Maria Damon wrote: > > i found said parcelli essay to be the workings of a disturbed mind, > of no real analytic value. I agree. Besides being offensive (I don't care as much about the use of the N word so much as the patently insulting absurdity of comparing being a contemporary poet with being a slave) it was just so whiny and self-justifying. This tired, worn out "oooohhh, poor me, I'm a poet" crap really gets old. Am I really supposed to boo hoo because Andrei Codrescu threw a match at him in Baltimore back in the seventies, and (ooooh! Sin!) now Codrescu has the audacity to be successful? Isn't one Dan Schneider enough? Suzanne Burns ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 13:49:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: H Arnold Subject: Re: Error on Ron Silliman's Blog In-Reply-To: <44C7A193.10606@ilstu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed --strange that he conceptualized the whole thing in binary terms -- otherwise i didn't think it was terribly weird -h >From: Gabriel Gudding >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Error on Ron Silliman's Blog >Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 12:08:35 -0500 > >Please note that in today's commentary on his blog, Ron placed a link into >his text that is meant to stand as an example of my criticism. He linked it >to a very weird essay by Carlo Parcelli called "House Nigga, Field Nigga." > >I did not write that essay. > >Gabe > >-- >__________________________________ >http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com >---------------------------------- >Gabriel Gudding >Department of English >Illinois State University >Normal, Illinois 61790 >309.438.5284 (office) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 14:51:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Suzanne Burns Subject: Re: Error on Ron Silliman's Blog In-Reply-To: <000001c6b0e1$b5014f90$6501a8c0@KASIA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Glad the link is fixed-- jeez, I wanted to bleach my eyes after reading that first essay. What a mistake. Suzanne -- "Start with your identity, which is a combination of your assets and what your friends mean when they discuss 'the trouble with you,' polish that, and you have style." --Quentin Crisp ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 16:01:49 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AMBogle2@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Error on Ron Silliman's Blog MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/26/06 1:50:03 PM Central Daylight Time, harnold103@HOTMAIL.COM writes: > --strange that he conceptualized the whole thing in binary terms -- > otherwise i didn't think it was terribly weird > > -h > > from the article, item in question: I chuckled when I heard that Gabe Gudding had been a Nation's younger poet. I can't imagine a poet with less backbone. Gudding even went crawling back to the Buffalo Poetics list when that group of paranoid sycophants threw him off years ago. If he didn't have the cajones to stand up to that gaggle of twits, what would he do if the FBI came around asking about a fellow poet? If his actions heretofore are any indication, he'd rat them out. Such is the current level of committment and integrity emanating from the Nation. Oh. And did I mention that the poetry at the Nation is worthless pap? By terms of the essay, I myself am a paranoid field nigger who reads mentally stable house niggers most. You might say that is a good thing, too. Sometimes I do read a fellow yellow field nigger or, better yet, a red free nigger (I wish he had given a fuller bibliographic list of those). In fact, workshop consists in reading field niggers' work. One or two of those will advance from the barn to the house. The rest will leave the barn and go back out to the field, temporarily stoked on field niggers' fallible styles and untested awareness, to try to survive reading life outside comfortable halls and rooms. This might seem too rude to mention, except here: an alcoholic man actually called me a "niggy" once because I'd been cleared out of AA for trying to stand by a Jewish mom in there who was getting evicted from her real house and torn away from custody of her daughters by her ice-cream-scarfing, woman-hating, fat dreck of a husband from Wyoming. Standing up for someone who is in the right, against public resistance, is the opposite of selling out. Weird thing is, there really is no world outside of AA -- or the poetics list; by house masters' terms -- poetic AAs want in the house, too; and there are only a few places for ex-barn fallows like us to shelter. May go ask the fox. IF I do, then: I think I shall post my not-for-sale story, "The Gift," at annbogle.blogspot.com. Instead of house and field niggers, it portrays program faculty and writers as students and patients of the Art Hospital. The story dates to '91. It's interesting that pharmaceutical co's have picked up in U financing where the Cold War trickle down left off, but I wouldn't have known that then. AMB ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 16:10:58 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Error on Ron Silliman's Blog In-Reply-To: <408.3c002e00.31f9242d@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I have no idea what a Nation's younger poet is, but if Gabe is one it must be good: Gabe writes corageous, risky poetry, and he's one of the very few of his generation worth reading. Who needs Carlo Parcelli if we still have Bogle among us? Mark At 04:01 PM 7/26/2006, you wrote: >In a message dated 7/26/06 1:50:03 PM Central Daylight Time, >harnold103@HOTMAIL.COM writes: > > > > --strange that he conceptualized the whole thing in binary terms -- > > otherwise i didn't think it was terribly weird > > > > -h > > > > >from the article, item in question: > >I chuckled when I heard that Gabe Gudding had been a Nation's younger poet. I >can't imagine a poet with less backbone. Gudding even went crawling back to >the Buffalo Poetics list when that group of paranoid sycophants threw him off >years ago. If he didn't have the cajones to stand up to that gaggle of twits, >what would he do if the FBI came around asking about a fellow poet? If his >actions heretofore are any indication, he'd rat them out. Such is the current >level of committment and integrity emanating from the Nation. Oh. And did I >mention that the poetry at the Nation is worthless pap? > >By terms of the essay, I myself am a paranoid field nigger who reads mentally >stable house niggers most. You might say that is a good thing, too. >Sometimes I do read a fellow yellow field nigger or, better yet, a >red free nigger (I >wish he had given a fuller bibliographic list of those). In fact, workshop >consists in reading field niggers' work. One or two of those will >advance from >the barn to the house. The rest will leave the barn and go back out to the >field, temporarily stoked on field niggers' fallible styles and untested >awareness, to try to survive reading life outside comfortable halls and rooms. > >This might seem too rude to mention, except here: an alcoholic man actually >called me a "niggy" once because I'd been cleared out of AA for >trying to stand >by a Jewish mom in there who was getting evicted from her real house and torn >away from custody of her daughters by her ice-cream-scarfing, woman-hating, >fat dreck of a husband from Wyoming. Standing up for someone who is in the >right, against public resistance, is the opposite of selling >out. Weird thing >is, there really is no world outside of AA -- or the poetics list; by house >masters' terms -- poetic AAs want in the house, too; and there are only a few >places for ex-barn fallows like us to shelter. May go ask the fox. > >IF I do, then: I think I shall post my not-for-sale story, "The Gift," at >annbogle.blogspot.com. Instead of house and field niggers, it >portrays program >faculty and writers as students and patients of the Art Hospital. The story >dates to '91. It's interesting that pharmaceutical co's have picked up in U >financing where the Cold War trickle down left off, but I wouldn't have known >that then. > >AMB ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 13:22:28 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: Error on Ron Silliman's Blog In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed For me the bizarreness was in the choice of metaphor, this idea that american poetry is a peculiar institution in the same way that american slavery was a peculiar institution. Slavery was a peculiar institution because it was an all out assault on the human dignity of everyone who participated in it. It was peculiar because it was legally recognized by a nation whose founding documents purported to espouse a humanitarian and self-evident dogma that everyone is equal and possessed of rights. There is then this contradiction between the principles of the state and it's actions. Such contradictions are inevitable in a democratic and open society, indeed, i think they are essential to it. But to make that as a metaphor for American Poetry qua institution is to say something very strange: that there is a contradiction inherent in pursuing a particular artform with the values of those participating in the artform. What values might those be? What poetic values does XJ Kennedy share with Jorie Graham share with Susan Howe? And more importantly, where does this binary situate, given that there are in fact four parties involved in the metaphor as it's analyzed, first the distinction between House and Field, sure, but also slave and master, slave and freeman, and freeman and slaver? I think the bizarreness is interesting when you start pushing at the metaphor for the other parties to it. Where are the abolitionists and former slaves? What is the underground railroad of American poetry? Who are the conflicted Thomas Jefferson's and sly politicians like John Quincy Adams? Is John Ashbery the Frederick Douglas of American poetry? Of course Parcelli is writing a polemic and isn't interested in pursuing those questions, but once the weird analogy is drawn, i find it difficult not to try to follow the logic of the device. Which, for me at least, makes for very entertaining reading. On Wed, 26 Jul 2006, H Arnold wrote: > --strange that he conceptualized the whole thing in binary terms -- otherwise i > didn't think it was terribly weird > > -h > > >> From: Gabriel Gudding >> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: Error on Ron Silliman's Blog >> Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 12:08:35 -0500 >> >> Please note that in today's commentary on his blog, Ron placed a link into >> his text that is meant to stand as an example of my criticism. He linked it >> to a very weird essay by Carlo Parcelli called "House Nigga, Field Nigga." >> >> I did not write that essay. >> >> Gabe >> >> -- >> __________________________________ >> http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com >> ---------------------------------- >> Gabriel Gudding >> Department of English >> Illinois State University >> Normal, Illinois 61790 >> 309.438.5284 (office) > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 16:27:00 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AMBogle2@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Error on Ron Silliman's Blog MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/26/06 3:02:28 PM Central Daylight Time, AMBogle2@AOL.COM writes: Excerpt from the questionable essay: > I chuckled when I heard that Gabe Gudding had been a Nation's younger poet. > I > can't imagine a poet with less backbone. Gudding even went crawling back to > the Buffalo Poetics list when that group of paranoid sycophants threw him > off > years ago. If he didn't have the cajones to stand up to that gaggle of > twits, > what would he do if the FBI came around asking about a fellow poet? If his > actions heretofore are any indication, he'd rat them out. Such is the > current > level of committment and integrity emanating from the Nation. Oh. And did I > mention that the poetry at the Nation is worthless pap? > > I intended this to be formatted as a quotation from Carlo Parcelli's essay, but the formatting dropped when I sent it. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 16:33:58 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Error on Ron Silliman's Blog In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sorry. Obviously I hadn't read the essay--I rarely check blogs. Mark At 04:27 PM 7/26/2006, you wrote: >In a message dated 7/26/06 3:02:28 PM Central Daylight Time, AMBogle2@AOL.COM >writes: > >Excerpt from the questionable essay: > > > > I chuckled when I heard that Gabe Gudding had been a Nation's > younger poet. > > I > > can't imagine a poet with less backbone. Gudding even went > crawling back to > > the Buffalo Poetics list when that group of paranoid sycophants threw him > > off > > years ago. If he didn't have the cajones to stand up to that gaggle of > > twits, > > what would he do if the FBI came around asking about a fellow poet? If his > > actions heretofore are any indication, he'd rat them out. Such is the > > current > > level of committment and integrity emanating from the Nation. Oh. > And did I > > mention that the poetry at the Nation is worthless pap? > > > > > >I intended this to be formatted as a quotation from Carlo Parcelli's essay, >but the formatting dropped when I sent it. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 16:17:10 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: Re: Error on Ron Silliman's Blog In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable so I wasn't alone in thinking the "essay" was Schneider-ific... I mean, I'm all for logorrhea, but this kind of sludge is the reason God created the courtesy flush... -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Suzanne Burns Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 13:50 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Error on Ron Silliman's Blog On 7/26/06, Maria Damon wrote: > > i found said parcelli essay to be the workings of a disturbed mind, > of no real analytic value. I agree. Besides being offensive (I don't care as much about the use of the N word so much as the patently insulting absurdity of comparing being a contemporary poet with being a slave) it was just so whiny and self-justifying. This tired, worn out "oooohhh, poor me, I'm a poet" crap really gets old. Am I really supposed to boo hoo because Andrei Codrescu threw a match at him in Baltimore back in the seventies, and (ooooh! Sin!) now Codrescu has the audacity to be successful? Isn't one Dan Schneider enough? Suzanne Burns ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 16:31:00 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eric Dickey Subject: Re: Error on Ron Silliman's Blog In-Reply-To: <54AA9B41BC35F34EAD02E660901D8A5A07ACB339@TLRUSMNEAGMBX10.ERF.THOMSON.COM> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Oh please no, not the God theory again... Tom, your wonderful imagery made me laugh. I'm still laughing. Thank you. I'll look at the piece tonight. --- "Tom W. Lewis" wrote: > so I wasn't alone in thinking the "essay" was > Schneider-ific... I mean, > I'm all for logorrhea, but this kind of sludge is > the reason God created > the courtesy flush... > > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] > On Behalf Of Suzanne Burns > Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 13:50 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Error on Ron Silliman's Blog > > On 7/26/06, Maria Damon wrote: > > > > i found said parcelli essay to be the workings of > a disturbed mind, > > of no real analytic value. > > > > I agree. Besides being offensive (I don't care as > much about the use of > the > N word so much as the patently insulting absurdity > of comparing being a > contemporary poet with being a slave) it was just so > whiny and > self-justifying. This tired, worn out "oooohhh, poor > me, I'm a poet" > crap > really gets old. > > Am I really supposed to boo hoo because Andrei > Codrescu threw a match at > him > in Baltimore back in the seventies, and (ooooh! > Sin!) now Codrescu has > the > audacity to be successful? > > Isn't one Dan Schneider enough? > > Suzanne Burns > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 21:30:36 -0700 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Subject: Re: ric caddel wikipedia In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I did. Do I win something? Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 08:18:31 -0700 From: aaron tieger Subject: ric caddel wikipedia Does anyone know who wrote the Ric Caddel entry on Wikipedia? Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 00:53:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Suzanne Burns Subject: Re: Error on Ron Silliman's Blog In-Reply-To: <54AA9B41BC35F34EAD02E660901D8A5A07ACB339@TLRUSMNEAGMBX10.ERF.THOMSON.COM> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On 7/26/06, Tom W. Lewis wrote: > > so I wasn't alone in thinking the "essay" was Schneider-ific... I mean, > I'm all for logorrhea, but this kind of sludge is the reason God created > the courtesy flush... Heheheheh :-) Suzanne Burns ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 06:40:35 -0700 Reply-To: ishaq1824@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: Struggle over Middle East reaches into world LGBT movements MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=en/node/1578 ...July 19 events in some two dozen cities worldwide called for regime change in Iran. And the annual “World Pride” march —incongruously themed “Love without Borders”—was scheduled to take place in occupied Jerusalem on Aug. 10, making Israel appear to be a bastion of liberty in the Middle East.But Israel—the apartheid, theocratic imperialist power threatening the entire Middle East—was blasting the population and infrastructure of Gaza and pounding Lebanon with U.S.-supplied bunker buster bombs...Like the German Homosexual Eman cipation movement, which was derailed when it supported is own ruling class on the eve of World War I, any progressive movement that does not fight its own imperialist bosses and oppose a war for an empire built on super-profits surrenders its independence and kneels before its own oppressor class. The gay liberation struggles in the U.S. during the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s gained power from organizing against the Korean and Vietnam wars. Struggle over Middle East reaches into world LGBT movements Published Jul 27, 2006 12:18 AM Imagine a group of individuals standing on the deck of an imperialist gunboat, under the shadow of cannons aimed and readied to fire at a country—formerly or currently colonized. The group is shouting at the targeted government, “We demand your surrender too, but for progressive reasons!” That’s the position of those based in the imperialist U.S., Britain and France who are directing their political fire against the popularly elected Palestinian and Iranian leaderships, based on what they say are violations of gay rights in those countries. Their political campaign has ratcheted up. July 19 events in some two dozen cities worldwide called for regime change in Iran. And the annual “World Pride” march —incongruously themed “Love without Borders”—was scheduled to take place in occupied Jerusalem on Aug. 10, making Israel appear to be a bastion of liberty in the Middle East. But Israel—the apartheid, theocratic imperialist power threatening the entire Middle East—was blasting the population and infrastructure of Gaza and pounding Lebanon with U.S.-supplied bunker buster bombs, while the U.S. Navy Central Command was positioning its war armada off Lebanon’s shores. On July 21, the Israeli government canceled the pride march. The stated reason was that the widening war was drawing troops and police who would be needed to guard the march. The unstated reason is that the Israeli coalition government needs to cement unity with its own theocratic base. The Israeli ruling coalition faced a motion of non-confidence from two religious parties within its government on July 10 that demanded the cancellation of the march in Jerusalem. Taking aim at Palestine The July 19 events were taking aim at Iran—drawing handfuls of individuals in some cities, scores in others—at the same time that the Palestinian and Lebanese people were at ground zero of the bombs and bullets. This widening Israeli assault in the region—a proxy war waged in the economic, strategic and military interests of U.S. finance capital—is also aimed at Iran, as well as Syria. The call for anti-Iran events on July 19 was issued by OutRage!, a British gay human rights group, and the Paris-based International Day Against Homophobia. On the day of the July 19 anti-Iran events, Peter Tatchell, an OutRage! leader, issued a political statement from London in which he argued against the progressive movement boycotting “World Pride” in Jer u salem, which had not yet been canceled. Tatchell claimed that opposition to the Jerusalem march was coming from groups based in Western countries—a criti cism more accurately leveled at his July 19 anti-Iran organizing. As the Israelis laid siege to Gaza, Tatchell said his organization would actually prefer that the march be scheduled in Palestinian Ramallah rather than Jeru salem. But he added that news coverage of the Jerusalem “World Pride” event would “give comfort and hope to isolated, downcast queers throughout the Arab world.” He concluded, “Imagine the hope and confidence such news will give to isolated, vulnerable LGBT people across the Middle East,” and that the event “might help trigger the creation of LGBT movements in repressive, homophobic Middle Eastern states, including Palestine.” Voices from within Palestine and Lebanon sent a very different message. Voices from Palestine There already is a lesbian, bisexual, trans gender, queer and intersexual (LGBTQI) organization in historic Pales tine. It is called “Aswat”—which translates from Arabic to English as “Voices.” Aswat works with LGBTQI groups and individuals in the Middle East. Aswat raised its voices early on regarding the Jerusalem march. In the English portion of its web site, Aswat states clearly that as Palestinian LGBTQI’s living directly under military occu pation, and as part of a national min ority in Israel, “[W]e are opposing this attempt to hold the international pride parade in Israel, particularly in Jerusalem, the heart of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. As the pride parade will be at a time for the gay and lesbian community to cele brate, Palestinians in Eastern occupied Jeru salem will continue to suffer under intensified checkpoints, increasing racism, house demolishing, confiscating IDs and expanding of Israeli settlements. “Therefore, ASWAT—a Palestinian gay women group—decided not to take part in the World Pride 2006.” A promotional DVD for the Jerusalem events had promised “great parties” and stressed that “out” gay and lesbian soldiers can fight in the Israeli Army. The propaganda DVD denounced the Palestinian Authority for its alleged treatment of its same-sex-loving population and claimed that the Palestinian resistance—the Intifada—made it harder for lesbian and gay Palestinians to “escape” to Israel. (The Coalition to Boycott World Pride) Aswat emphasized that these are soldiers in an occupying, oppressive army. “This is an insult to our struggle for freedom and tolerance. In Israel, violence and hatred are articulated through homophobia and xenophobia, and this very same violence is evident in racism, occupation and war crimes.” In a recent interview, Aswat co-founder and group coordinator Rauda Morcos explained, “We are focusing on our work within the Palestinian community. We believe we need to have our allies within the community before having them around the world. This is very important because without the support of our community, we cannot exist. The other thing we are focusing on is deliberating the change that is happening within the Palestinian community without comparing that to what is happening in the world. Each community has its own ways, its own scale, its own time, and our time has started, and we’re happy with that.” When asked how Palestinians viewed her as an “out” lesbian, Morcos concluded, “I think Aswat’s existence proves there are seeds of change. I think we are on the agenda—of the Palestinian social agenda. I think we’re there, and I think it’s very important that the change has to happen. I think it wouldn’t happen without Aswat, and it wouldn’t happen without the support within the community and without having supportive media in our community.” (gay.com) Lebanese support for Palestine The group Helem (translated into English as “dreams”) describes itself in the English-language portion of its Arabic website as a non-profit organization in Lebanon, working on various human rights issues, including LGBTIQ equality. As part of its emergency action under Israeli bombardment, the website explains that the Helem center is helping to provide shelter, food and other supplies to the refugees who have poured in from the southern suburbs of Beirut and the south of Lebanon. (helem.net) The organization states, “Helem supports the global movement to boycott Jerusalem World Pride 2006 as part of the international boycott of, and divestment from Israel. Helem strongly condemns holding World Pride in a city beleaguered by violence and conflict, and where the words ‘Love without Borders’ belie a reality of separation, ubiquitous borders, destruction of homes and livelihoods, land theft, gross human rights violations and the apartheid policies of Israel.” Helem concluded that, “the rights of gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transgenders should not be placed in competition with the long struggle of the Palestinian people, including Palestinian LGBT people, for self-determination, for the right to return to their homes, and the struggle against apartheid and the occupation of their lands.” Progressive opposition to the week of “World Pride” events in Jerusalem had been building around the world. The march—expected to draw tens of thousands—would have violated the widening call to boycott Israel, infused the settler state’s tourism economy with cash, and politically promoted the Israel settler state as a “democracy” in the Middle East. Faisal Alam, a gay Muslim of Pakistani descent who co-founded Al-Fatiha—an international gay Muslim organization—wrote that the Israeli occupation of Palestinians is so brutal that, “With this in mind, I cannot support an event that will seemingly ignore the suffering of Pales tinians—both queer and straight—in the Occupied Territories, the West Bank and Gaza.” (southernvoice.com) The Coalition to Boycott World Pride, which described itself as “individuals and groups working for the liberation of all oppressed peoples,” stressed that “LGBT, intersex and other queer-identified people, should not be placed in competition with the long struggle of the Palestinian people, including Palestinian LGBTIQ people, for self-determination, for the right to return to their homes, and the struggle against apartheid and the occupation of their lands. We urge all people who seek peace and justice to support the travel boycott of World Pride Jerusalem as part of the boycott of Israeli goods, and the call to divest from Israel.” Turn the political guns around! This political struggle regarding Iran and Palestine takes place within the context of a burgeoning battle between imperialism and the countries of the Middle East that are resisting its demands to surrender their sovereignty and right to self-determination. Those who argue that Islam is the problem and that pressure from the imperialist democracies—who have historically arrayed their forces under the banner of Christianity—is the solution are lining up with the oppressor in this war, not the oppressed. It was colonialism and later imperialism that imposed anti-“sodomy” laws—a term that comes from the Bible, not the Quran—from Africa to the Middle East, from Asia to the Americas, in its effort to restructure social relations in these countries to its economic interests. The French Mandate imposed anti-sodomy laws in Lebanon; the British Mandate made it law in Palestine. Imperialism is not going to bring democracy as a form of state rule to the Middle East or Central Asia or any other part of the world it seeks to dominate economically. In the imperialist centers, democracy is a form of class rule by the capitalists over the vast laboring class. But even in a democracy, state repression—particularly against nationally oppressed peoples within the imperialist citadels—is cruel. And challenge to capitalist rule can shift the form of state quickly to a more iron-fisted rule, as the rise of fascism in Germany, Italy and Spain demonstrated. Imperialist super-exploitation around the world requires a much more brutal form of state dictatorship than democracy. The Iranian people remember. They lived under a fascist “regime change” by the U.S. and Britain that installed a king—the Shah—on the peacock throne. Imperialism is not looking to bring “progress” to the oppressed. Washington cheered the restoration of semi-feudal social relations in Afghanistan after drowning in blood a democratic revolution there that had been supported by the Soviet Union. And the CIA has brought medieval torture techniques, employing anti-gay and anti-trans humiliation and violence, to its makeshift prisons in Afghanistan and Iraq. For decades, U.S. imperialism has waged a war to annihilate the left-wing leaders of resistance movements in the Middle East and Central Asia, creating a void that the Islamic forces are filling today. So now, imperialism—which had relied on some of these same forces to crush communist resistance in the region—has turned to Islam bashing as its justification for economic and military warfare against any government and people who resist its rule, from Afghanistan to Iraq, Iran to Palestine. Like the German Homosexual Eman cipation movement, which was derailed when it supported is own ruling class on the eve of World War I, any progressive movement that does not fight its own imperialist bosses and oppose a war for an empire built on super-profits surrenders its independence and kneels before its own oppressor class. The gay liberation struggles in the U.S. during the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s gained power from organizing against the Korean and Vietnam wars. It is too late to expose the pretexts and “justifications” for imperialist war after the fact. The movement for sexual, gender and sex liberation needs to turn its political guns around now on the real enemy of the world’s people—imperialism! n Email: lfeinberg@workers.org This article is copyright under a Creative Commons License. Workers World, 55 W. 17 St., NY, NY 10011 Email: ww@workers.org Subscribe wwnews-subscribe@workersworld.net Support independent news http://www.workers.org/orders/donate.php site promotion Page printed from: http://www.workers.org/2006/world/mideast-lgbt-0803/ -- Stay Strong -"I testified/My mama cried/Black people died/When the other man lied" -- chuck d "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as) \ "We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit to a process of humiliation." --patrick o'neil \ "...we have the responsibility to make no deal with the oppressor" --harry belafonte \ "...in time, we will look back to this age with incredulity and amazement -- and victories like Hamas in Israel will be the *best* of our memories." -- mumia abu jamal -- "what state? what union?" "...these people generate wars in Asia and Africa,...These are the people who, in the last century, caused several devastating wars. In one world war alone, they killed over 60 million people.... In the near future, Allah willing, we will put you to trial in courts established by the peoples...."-- mahmoud ahmadinejad \ http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a047braithwaite.php http://cleveland.indymedia.org/uploads/2006/07/olivet___h.a.t.s_in_the_square___loud_ruffa1b.mp3 \ http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7255.php \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date \ http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/en_fins__clichy-sous_bois_amixquiet-_lordpatch_the_giver__.mp3 \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ \ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 09:53:56 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AMBogle2@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Error on Ron Silliman's blog MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/26/06 3:34:37 PM Central Daylight Time, junction@EARTHLINK.NET writes: > > Sorry. Obviously I hadn't read the essay--I rarely check blogs. > > Mark > Mark, I think the essays at Flashpoint ought to be taken as published ones, rather than as blog entries. Either way, this mislinking at Silliman's blog has led me to read something from the voice of an outsider, for a change, and I'm glad of it, even though Carlo Parcelli mostly steps on toes in his piece. The prose, instead of seeming too strange to read, strikes me as being strong -- it's some sort of lit. crit. tapdancing -- and reminds me of reading at Baraka's website. I was impressed by such extended use of analogy throughout a lengthy essay even if it does rely on outsider terminology. It is so thorough in its dismissal of so many writers: Perhaps IT is supposed to be a seminal critique. John Gardner's ON MORAL FICTION, though certainly polite, stepped on toes, too, albeit a different set than this does. And it goes to show that no matter how politely one goes about it, it is a difficult thing to suggest bias. Remember that Gardner chose Guy Davenport as one of the best writers then living, while simultaneously dismissing many of the fashionable crowd of the day (1982?). Ann Bogle ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 11:40:28 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: ric caddel wikipedia Comments: To: editor@pavementsaw.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit anyone know who wrote my entry it sucks how can i change it ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 12:03:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: reading series Comments: cc: Acousticlv@aol.com, AdeenaKarasick@cs.com, AGosfield@aol.com, alonech@acedsl.com, Altjazz@aol.com, amirib@aol.com, Amramdavid@aol.com, anansi1@earthlink.net, AnselmBerrigan@aol.com, arlenej2@verizon.net, Barrywal23@aol.com, bdlilrbt@icqmail.com, butchershoppoet@hotmail.com, CarolynMcClairPR@aol.com, CaseyCyr@aol.com, CHASEMANHATTAN1@aol.com, Djmomo17@aol.com, Dsegnini1216@aol.com, flint@artphobia.com, Gfjacq@aol.com, Hooker99@aol.com, rakien@gmail.com, jeromerothenberg@hotmail.com, Jeromesala@aol.com, JillSR@aol.com, JoeLobell@cs.com, JohnLHagen@aol.com, kather8@katherinearnoldi.com, Kevtwi@aol.com, krkubert@hotmail.com, LakiVaz@aol.com, Lisevachon@aol.com, Nuyopoman@AOL.COM, Pedevski@aol.com, pom2@pompompress.com, Rabinart@aol.com, Rcmorgan12@aol.com, reggiedw@comcast.net, RichKostelanetz@aol.com, RnRBDN@aol.com, Smutmonke@aol.com, sprygypsy@yahoo.com, SHoltje@aol.com, Sumnirv@aol.com, tcumbie@nyc.rr.com, velasquez@nyc.com, VITORICCI@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit steve dalachinsky yuko otomo tom savage plus open reading lalita java 210 e. 3rd street (b and c) thursday aug 3 7 pm hosted by dorothy freidman august plus readings at lalita every thursday thru august ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 13:38:42 -0400 Reply-To: az421@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: above/ground press, lucky thirteen Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT the small press action network - ottawa (span-o) presents: the above/ground press LUCKY THIRTEEN (the angry teen years...) thirteenth anniversary party/launch Friday, August 18th, 2006 at The Mercury Lounge, 56 Byward Street, Ottawa doors open at 7pm, readings start at 8pm $5 at the door (includes a free chapbook) ; lovingly hosted by rob mclennan featuring new chapbooks & readings by Phil Hall (Toronto) Jesse Ferguson (Ottawa) & Wanda O'Connor (Montreal/Ottawa) with opening & no less important readings by Jennifer Mulligan (Gatineau) Stephen Brockwell (Ottawa) & Anita Dolman (Ottawa) Author bios: Phil Hall lives in Toronto & Perth, Ontario. He has been publishing poems since 1973. His book Trouble Sleeping (2001) was nominated for the Governor General's Award. His most recent book An Oak Hunch was a finalist for the Griffin Poetry Prize. This spring he was in writer's residence at The Berton House in Dawson City, Yukon. Jesse Patrick Ferguson is a poet, reviewer, musician and graduate student. His work has appeared recently in dANDelion, The Nashwaak Review, Matrix and The Dalhousie Review. He is also the author of three previous poetry chapbooks: Near Cooper Marsh (Friday Circle, 2005), Old Rhythms (Pooka Press, 2006) and Commute Poems (Thistle Bloom Books, 2006). In the fall of 2006, he and his fiance will be relocating to Fredericton, NB to continue their studies. He will be launching "catch a bird," a collection of visual poems. Wanda O'Connor once embraced a fond affection for trap shooting. Her work has been published in such locations as Toronto, New York, Montreal, Australia, and Fredericton, New Brunswick. She reads and reviews a variety of books that make nothing happen. Jennifer Mulligan will still be 31 at the staging of this event. She writes poetry, screenplay-like things, and she likes to watch people. On the average day, she attributes most of her rational/emotional life to being a Virgo sun/Scorpio moon combo (imagine a Vulcan (Virgo) + an Earthling (Scorpio) = SPOCK). Her work has appeared in YAWP, Peter F. Yacht Club publications, above/ground press broadsides, and in the chapbook Winter2 in celebration of Ottawas Winterlude. She is currently finishing a series of six poems based on the work of the ancient Roman poetess, Sulpicia. Some of her work is available online through www.virgosunscorpiomoon.blogspot.com Stephen Brockwell spent the first half of his life in Montreal and the second half in Ottawa. Where he will spend the third half is uncertain. His most recent book is Fruitfly Geographic (ECW Press, 2004). Anita Dolman is an Ottawa poet, freelance writer and editor. Her work has appeared in various journals and magazines, including Grain Magazine, Geist, Utne, The Fiddlehead, Prism internationaI, Ottawater.com, latchkey.net and The Antigonish Review. Her chapbook, Scalpel, tea and shot glass, was published by above/ground press in fall 2004. & then stay for Friday night resident dj Lance Baptiste to spin you late into the night from 10-10:30pm on... for more information, contact rob mclennan @ 613 239 0337 or check out: http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/2006/07/small-press-action-network-ottawa-span.html -- poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics (Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...11th coll'n - name , an errant (Stride, UK) .... c/o 858 Somerset St W, Ottawa ON K1R 6R7 * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 14:21:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Struggle over Middle East reaches into world LGBT movements Comments: To: ishaq1824@shaw.ca In-Reply-To: <44C8C253.20202@shaw.ca> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable I can't keep quiet any longer even though I have no time to get into this discussion. But please think abt what you are saying. Israel--what is it to do? It is a tiny country surrounded by tens of thousands of people who want the Jews dead. If you have been there you know the situation is much more complex than Israel imperialist--they are trying to survive. I wish people wd get as worked up abt what is happening in southern Africa & other poor parts of the world as they do abt Israel. Every day 60,000 people, 75% of them women & children of color, die of hunger-related issues.Israel has don= e some things wrong but not the way you portray them. I am in general extremely left-leaning but in the case of Israel, partly bec I am Jewish bu= t not only bec of that, I see many leftists overgeneralizing & blaming in a knee-jerk way. Stop jerking those knees, please. Read the history of the Middle East. On 7/27/06 9:40 AM, "Ishaq" wrote: > http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=3Den/node/1578 >=20 >=20 > ...July 19 events in some two dozen cities worldwide called for regime > change in Iran. And the annual =B3World Pride=B2 march =8Bincongruously themed > =B3Love without Borders=B2=8Bwas scheduled to take place in occupied Jerusalem > on Aug. 10, making Israel appear to be a bastion of liberty in the > Middle East.But Israel=8Bthe apartheid, theocratic imperialist power > threatening the entire Middle East=8Bwas blasting the population and > infrastructure of Gaza and pounding Lebanon with U.S.-supplied bunker > buster bombs...Like the German Homosexual Eman cipation movement, which > was derailed when it supported is own ruling class on the eve of World > War I, any progressive movement that does not fight its own imperialist > bosses and oppose a war for an empire built on super-profits surrenders > its independence and kneels before its own oppressor class. The gay > liberation struggles in the U.S. during the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s > gained power from organizing against the Korean and Vietnam wars. >=20 >=20 > Struggle over Middle East reaches into world LGBT movements > Published Jul 27, 2006 12:18 AM >=20 > Imagine a group of individuals standing on the deck of an imperialist > gunboat, under the shadow of cannons aimed and readied to fire at a > country=8Bformerly or currently colonized. The group is shouting at the > targeted government, =B3We demand your surrender too, but for progressive > reasons!=B2 >=20 > That=B9s the position of those based in the imperialist U.S., Britain and > France who are directing their political fire against the popularly > elected Palestinian and Iranian leaderships, based on what they say are > violations of gay rights in those countries. >=20 > Their political campaign has ratcheted up. July 19 events in some two > dozen cities worldwide called for regime change in Iran. And the annual > =B3World Pride=B2 march =8Bincongruously themed =B3Love without Borders=B2=8Bwas > scheduled to take place in occupied Jerusalem on Aug. 10, making Israel > appear to be a bastion of liberty in the Middle East. >=20 > But Israel=8Bthe apartheid, theocratic imperialist power threatening the > entire Middle East=8Bwas blasting the population and infrastructure of > Gaza and pounding Lebanon with U.S.-supplied bunker buster bombs, while > the U.S. Navy Central Command was positioning its war armada off > Lebanon=B9s shores. >=20 > On July 21, the Israeli government canceled the pride march. The stated > reason was that the widening war was drawing troops and police who would > be needed to guard the march. The unstated reason is that the Israeli > coalition government needs to cement unity with its own theocratic base. > The Israeli ruling coalition faced a motion of non-confidence from two > religious parties within its government on July 10 that demanded the > cancellation of the march in Jerusalem. >=20 > Taking aim at Palestine >=20 > The July 19 events were taking aim at Iran=8Bdrawing handfuls of > individuals in some cities, scores in others=8Bat the same time that the > Palestinian and Lebanese people were at ground zero of the bombs and > bullets. This widening Israeli assault in the region=8Ba proxy war waged > in the economic, strategic and military interests of U.S. finance > capital=8Bis also aimed at Iran, as well as Syria. >=20 > The call for anti-Iran events on July 19 was issued by OutRage!, a > British gay human rights group, and the Paris-based International Day > Against Homophobia. >=20 > On the day of the July 19 anti-Iran events, Peter Tatchell, an OutRage! > leader, issued a political statement from London in which he argued > against the progressive movement boycotting =B3World Pride=B2 in Jer u > salem, which had not yet been canceled. >=20 > Tatchell claimed that opposition to the Jerusalem march was coming from > groups based in Western countries=8Ba criti cism more accurately leveled > at his July 19 anti-Iran organizing. >=20 > As the Israelis laid siege to Gaza, Tatchell said his organization would > actually prefer that the march be scheduled in Palestinian Ramallah > rather than Jeru salem. But he added that news coverage of the Jerusalem > =B3World Pride=B2 event would =B3give comfort and hope to isolated, downcast > queers throughout the Arab world.=B2 >=20 > He concluded, =B3Imagine the hope and confidence such news will give to > isolated, vulnerable LGBT people across the Middle East,=B2 and that the > event =B3might help trigger the creation of LGBT movements in repressive, > homophobic Middle Eastern states, including Palestine.=B2 >=20 > Voices from within Palestine and Lebanon sent a very different message. >=20 > Voices from Palestine >=20 > There already is a lesbian, bisexual, trans gender, queer and > intersexual (LGBTQI) organization in historic Pales tine. It is called > =B3Aswat=B2=8Bwhich translates from Arabic to English as =B3Voices.=B2 Aswat works > with LGBTQI groups and individuals in the Middle East. >=20 > Aswat raised its voices early on regarding the Jerusalem march. >=20 > In the English portion of its web site, Aswat states clearly that as > Palestinian LGBTQI=B9s living directly under military occu pation, and as > part of a national min ority in Israel, =B3[W]e are opposing this attempt > to hold the international pride parade in Israel, particularly in > Jerusalem, the heart of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. As the pride > parade will be at a time for the gay and lesbian community to cele > brate, Palestinians in Eastern occupied Jeru salem will continue to > suffer under intensified checkpoints, increasing racism, house > demolishing, confiscating IDs and expanding of Israeli settlements. >=20 > =B3Therefore, ASWAT=8Ba Palestinian gay women group=8Bdecided not to take part > in the World Pride 2006.=B2 >=20 > A promotional DVD for the Jerusalem events had promised =B3great parties=B2 > and stressed that =B3out=B2 gay and lesbian soldiers can fight in the > Israeli Army. The propaganda DVD denounced the Palestinian Authority for > its alleged treatment of its same-sex-loving population and claimed that > the Palestinian resistance=8Bthe Intifada=8Bmade it harder for lesbian and > gay Palestinians to =B3escape=B2 to Israel. (The Coalition to Boycott World > Pride) >=20 > Aswat emphasized that these are soldiers in an occupying, oppressive > army. =B3This is an insult to our struggle for freedom and tolerance. In > Israel, violence and hatred are articulated through homophobia and > xenophobia, and this very same violence is evident in racism, occupation > and war crimes.=B2 >=20 > In a recent interview, Aswat co-founder and group coordinator Rauda > Morcos explained, =B3We are focusing on our work within the Palestinian > community. We believe we need to have our allies within the community > before having them around the world. This is very important because > without the support of our community, we cannot exist. The other thing > we are focusing on is deliberating the change that is happening within > the Palestinian community without comparing that to what is happening in > the world. Each community has its own ways, its own scale, its own time, > and our time has started, and we=B9re happy with that.=B2 >=20 > When asked how Palestinians viewed her as an =B3out=B2 lesbian, Morcos > concluded, =B3I think Aswat=B9s existence proves there are seeds of change. > I think we are on the agenda=8Bof the Palestinian social agenda. I think > we=B9re there, and I think it=B9s very important that the change has to > happen. I think it wouldn=B9t happen without Aswat, and it wouldn=B9t happen > without the support within the community and without having supportive > media in our community.=B2 (gay.com) >=20 > Lebanese support for Palestine >=20 > The group Helem (translated into English as =B3dreams=B2) describes itself > in the English-language portion of its Arabic website as a non-profit > organization in Lebanon, working on various human rights issues, > including LGBTIQ equality. >=20 > As part of its emergency action under Israeli bombardment, the website > explains that the Helem center is helping to provide shelter, food and > other supplies to the refugees who have poured in from the southern > suburbs of Beirut and the south of Lebanon. (helem.net) >=20 > The organization states, =B3Helem supports the global movement to boycott > Jerusalem World Pride 2006 as part of the international boycott of, and > divestment from Israel. Helem strongly condemns holding World Pride in a > city beleaguered by violence and conflict, and where the words =8CLove > without Borders=B9 belie a reality of separation, ubiquitous borders, > destruction of homes and livelihoods, land theft, gross human rights > violations and the apartheid policies of Israel.=B2 >=20 > Helem concluded that, =B3the rights of gays, lesbians, bisexuals and > transgenders should not be placed in competition with the long struggle > of the Palestinian people, including Palestinian LGBT people, for > self-determination, for the right to return to their homes, and the > struggle against apartheid and the occupation of their lands.=B2 >=20 > Progressive opposition to the week of =B3World Pride=B2 events in Jerusalem > had been building around the world. The march=8Bexpected to draw tens of > thousands=8Bwould have violated the widening call to boycott Israel, > infused the settler state=B9s tourism economy with cash, and politically > promoted the Israel settler state as a =B3democracy=B2 in the Middle East. >=20 > Faisal Alam, a gay Muslim of Pakistani descent who co-founded > Al-Fatiha=8Ban international gay Muslim organization=8Bwrote that the > Israeli occupation of Palestinians is so brutal that, =B3With this in > mind, I cannot support an event that will seemingly ignore the suffering > of Pales tinians=8Bboth queer and straight=8Bin the Occupied Territories, > the West Bank and Gaza.=B2 (southernvoice.com) >=20 > The Coalition to Boycott World Pride, which described itself as > =B3individuals and groups working for the liberation of all oppressed > peoples,=B2 stressed that =B3LGBT, intersex and other queer-identified > people, should not be placed in competition with the long struggle of > the Palestinian people, including Palestinian LGBTIQ people, for > self-determination, for the right to return to their homes, and the > struggle against apartheid and the occupation of their lands. We urge > all people who seek peace and justice to support the travel boycott of > World Pride Jerusalem as part of the boycott of Israeli goods, and the > call to divest from Israel.=B2 >=20 > Turn the political guns around! >=20 > This political struggle regarding Iran and Palestine takes place within > the context of a burgeoning battle between imperialism and the countries > of the Middle East that are resisting its demands to surrender their > sovereignty and right to self-determination. >=20 > Those who argue that Islam is the problem and that pressure from the > imperialist democracies=8Bwho have historically arrayed their forces under > the banner of Christianity=8Bis the solution are lining up with the > oppressor in this war, not the oppressed. >=20 > It was colonialism and later imperialism that imposed anti-=B3sodomy=B2 > laws=8Ba term that comes from the Bible, not the Quran=8Bfrom Africa to the > Middle East, from Asia to the Americas, in its effort to restructure > social relations in these countries to its economic interests. >=20 > The French Mandate imposed anti-sodomy laws in Lebanon; the British > Mandate made it law in Palestine. >=20 > Imperialism is not going to bring democracy as a form of state rule to > the Middle East or Central Asia or any other part of the world it seeks > to dominate economically. >=20 > In the imperialist centers, democracy is a form of class rule by the > capitalists over the vast laboring class. But even in a democracy, state > repression=8Bparticularly against nationally oppressed peoples within the > imperialist citadels=8Bis cruel. And challenge to capitalist rule can > shift the form of state quickly to a more iron-fisted rule, as the rise > of fascism in Germany, Italy and Spain demonstrated. >=20 > Imperialist super-exploitation around the world requires a much more > brutal form of state dictatorship than democracy. The Iranian people > remember. They lived under a fascist =B3regime change=B2 by the U.S. and > Britain that installed a king=8Bthe Shah=8Bon the peacock throne. >=20 > Imperialism is not looking to bring =B3progress=B2 to the oppressed. > Washington cheered the restoration of semi-feudal social relations in > Afghanistan after drowning in blood a democratic revolution there that > had been supported by the Soviet Union. And the CIA has brought medieval > torture techniques, employing anti-gay and anti-trans humiliation and > violence, to its makeshift prisons in Afghanistan and Iraq. >=20 > For decades, U.S. imperialism has waged a war to annihilate the > left-wing leaders of resistance movements in the Middle East and Central > Asia, creating a void that the Islamic forces are filling today. >=20 > So now, imperialism=8Bwhich had relied on some of these same forces to > crush communist resistance in the region=8Bhas turned to Islam bashing as > its justification for economic and military warfare against any > government and people who resist its rule, from Afghanistan to Iraq, > Iran to Palestine. >=20 > Like the German Homosexual Eman cipation movement, which was derailed > when it supported is own ruling class on the eve of World War I, any > progressive movement that does not fight its own imperialist bosses and > oppose a war for an empire built on super-profits surrenders its > independence and kneels before its own oppressor class. >=20 > The gay liberation struggles in the U.S. during the 1950s, 1960s and > 1970s gained power from organizing against the Korean and Vietnam wars. >=20 > It is too late to expose the pretexts and =B3justifications=B2 for > imperialist war after the fact. The movement for sexual, gender and sex > liberation needs to turn its political guns around now on the real enemy > of the world=B9s people=8Bimperialism! n >=20 > Email: lfeinberg@workers.org >=20 > This article is copyright under a Creative Commons License. > Workers World, 55 W. 17 St., NY, NY 10011 > Email: ww@workers.org > Subscribe wwnews-subscribe@workersworld.net > Support independent news http://www.workers.org/orders/donate.php > site promotion >=20 > Page printed from: > http://www.workers.org/2006/world/mideast-lgbt-0803/ >=20 >=20 > -- > Stay Strong >=20 > -"I testified/My mama cried/Black people died/When the other man lied" > -- chuck d >=20 > "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" > --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as) > \ > "We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit > to a process of humiliation." > --patrick o'neil > \ > "...we have the responsibility to make no deal with the oppressor" > --harry belafonte > \ > "...in time, we will look back to this age with incredulity and > amazement -- and victories like Hamas in Israel will be the *best* of > our memories." -- mumia abu jamal -- "what state? what union?" >=20 > "...these people generate wars in Asia and Africa,...These are the > people who, in the last century, caused several devastating wars. In one > world war alone, they killed over 60 million people.... In the near > future, Allah willing, we will put you to trial in courts established by > the peoples...."-- mahmoud ahmadinejad > \ >=20 > http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a047braithwaite.php >=20 > http://cleveland.indymedia.org/uploads/2006/07/olivet___h.a.t.s_in_the_sq= uare_ > __loud_ruffa1b.mp3 > \ > http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7255.php > \ > http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=3Dbraithwaite&orderBy=3Ddate > \ > http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/en_fins__clichy-sous_bois_amixquiet-_l= ordpa > tch_the_giver__.mp3 > \ > http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ > \ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 15:07:54 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Fwd: literal exchange Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit someone out there in poeticsland may be interested in collaborating with Bojan... Begin forwarded message: > From: "bojan" > Date: July 27, 2006 4:45:48 AM CDT > To: dtv@MWT.NET > Subject: literal exchange > Reply-To: bojandrag@yahoo.com > > I would send a poem to a no fee contest or publisher-preferably > only by email.Beside that I would send many other kind of literal > texts. Could a winnig prize be somehow delivered to 11000 > Belgrade,Yugoslavia? I would describe some other literal work or > place and sell it -musical compositions too in midi file. > > Beside that I am looking for an email correspondence where we can > write together a literal work,musical; web design and exchange our > experiences and opportunities including financial. First of all > lets see what we already got.Others might for that already give a > lot. We will find others too. Also lets share lists of true and > false gifters and invisible theft. Send me your link or any others' > you find valuable. > > > Bojan Dragosavac > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 16:16:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: Struggle over Middle East reaches into world LGBT movements MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Yes, much more attention should be paid to events unfolding in Africa than is currently being paid -- That, however, has little to do with how much attention we should pay to what is unfolding in the Middle East. It is BECAUSE I've read deeply in the history of these events that I have taken the positions that I have taken. It's about time to stop knee-jerk accusations of knee-jerk responses -- Even some on the far right have come to recognize that there will be no peace in the region until Israel and its neighbors come to a lasting settlement. Current Israeli and US policy appears to be that a settlement will be imposed upon the Arab populations. That will not work. Israel continues to appeal to UN resolutions as justifictaion for its actions, while studiously ignoring other UN resolutions and international law. Any nation has a right to defend itself against incursions upon its territory. No nation has a right to establish settlements on land it occupies in war, or to generously offer to return all but 5% of such occupied territories, or to deny citizens displaced from such lands the right to return to them, or to appropriate the water resources in lands occupied in war -- etc. Hezbollah has done terrible things. There was no Hezbollah till Israel invaded Lebanon. Hamas has done terrible things. Hamas came into being under the watchful eye of Israeli intelligence at a time when Israel wanted a counterweight to the PLO. This is not to say that Israel is responsible for the actions of Hamas or Hezbollah -- It is not to blame the victims -- It is to say that the policies Israel has pursued have never accomplished their stated goals. The policies of collective punishment, wholesale removal of populations, destruction of even purely civilian infrastructure, will never produce security for Israel. What is Israel to do? Return to its internationally recognized '67 borders. Defend itself against any incursions, with the full support of the international community. Israel has so far bombed something like 80% of all Lebanon's highways and 94% of the bridges. It has bombed a UN outpost with "smart" weapons after repeated pleas from UN officials to stop firing on them. It has killed hundreds of civilians. I don't know anybody outside the Bush administration who believes that this scorched earth policy can possibly lead to any improvement in Israel's long-time security. You may think otherwise; I am sorry to say that we will have time to learn whether or not you are right. On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 14:21:13 +0000, Ruth Lepson wrote: > I can't keep quiet any longer even though I have no time to get into this > discussion. But please think abt what you are saying. Israel--what is it to > do? It is a tiny country surrounded by tens of thousands of people who want > the Jews dead. If you have been there you know the situation is much more > complex than Israel imperialist--they are trying to survive. I wish people > wd get as worked up abt what is happening in southern Africa & other poor > parts of the world as they do abt Israel. Every day 60,000 people, 75% of > them women & children of color, die of hunger-related issues.Israel has done > some things wrong but not the way you portray them. I am in general > extremely left-leaning but in the case of Israel, partly bec I am Jewish but > not only bec of that, I see many leftists overgeneralizing & blaming in a > knee-jerk way. Stop jerking those knees, please. Read the history of the > Middle East. > > > On 7/27/06 9:40 AM, "Ishaq" wrote: > > > http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=en/node/1578 > > > > > > ...July 19 events in some two dozen cities worldwide called for regime > > change in Iran. And the annual ³World Pride² march ‹incongruously themed > > ³Love without Borders²‹was scheduled to take place in occupied Jerusalem > > on Aug. 10, making Israel appear to be a bastion of liberty in the > > Middle East.But Israel‹the apartheid, theocratic imperialist power > > threatening the entire Middle East‹was blasting the population and > > infrastructure of Gaza and pounding Lebanon with U.S.-supplied bunker > > buster bombs...Like the German Homosexual Eman cipation movement, which > > was derailed when it supported is own ruling class on the eve of World > > War I, any progressive movement that does not fight its own imperialist > > bosses and oppose a war for an empire built on super-profits surrenders > > its independence and kneels before its own oppressor class. The gay > > liberation struggles in the U.S. during the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s > > gained power from organizing against the Korean and Vietnam wars. > > > > > > Struggle over Middle East reaches into world LGBT movements > > Published Jul 27, 2006 12:18 AM > > > > Imagine a group of individuals standing on the deck of an imperialist > > gunboat, under the shadow of cannons aimed and readied to fire at a > > country‹formerly or currently colonized. The group is shouting at the > > targeted government, ³We demand your surrender too, but for progressive > > reasons!² > > > > That¹s the position of those based in the imperialist U.S., Britain and > > France who are directing their political fire against the popularly > > elected Palestinian and Iranian leaderships, based on what they say are > > violations of gay rights in those countries. > > > > Their political campaign has ratcheted up. July 19 events in some two > > dozen cities worldwide called for regime change in Iran. And the annual > > ³World Pride² march ‹incongruously themed ³Love without Borders²‹was > > scheduled to take place in occupied Jerusalem on Aug. 10, making Israel > > appear to be a bastion of liberty in the Middle East. > > > > But Israel‹the apartheid, theocratic imperialist power threatening the > > entire Middle East‹was blasting the population and infrastructure of > > Gaza and pounding Lebanon with U.S.-supplied bunker buster bombs, while > > the U.S. Navy Central Command was positioning its war armada off > > Lebanon¹s shores. > > > > On July 21, the Israeli government canceled the pride march. The stated > > reason was that the widening war was drawing troops and police who would > > be needed to guard the march. The unstated reason is that the Israeli > > coalition government needs to cement unity with its own theocratic base. > > The Israeli ruling coalition faced a motion of non-confidence from two > > religious parties within its government on July 10 that demanded the > > cancellation of the march in Jerusalem. > > > > Taking aim at Palestine > > > > The July 19 events were taking aim at Iran‹drawing handfuls of > > individuals in some cities, scores in others‹at the same time that the > > Palestinian and Lebanese people were at ground zero of the bombs and > > bullets. This widening Israeli assault in the region‹a proxy war waged > > in the economic, strategic and military interests of U.S. finance > > capital‹is also aimed at Iran, as well as Syria. > > > > The call for anti-Iran events on July 19 was issued by OutRage!, a > > British gay human rights group, and the Paris-based International Day > > Against Homophobia. > > > > On the day of the July 19 anti-Iran events, Peter Tatchell, an OutRage! > > leader, issued a political statement from London in which he argued > > against the progressive movement boycotting ³World Pride² in Jer u > > salem, which had not yet been canceled. > > > > Tatchell claimed that opposition to the Jerusalem march was coming from > > groups based in Western countries‹a criti cism more accurately leveled > > at his July 19 anti-Iran organizing. > > > > As the Israelis laid siege to Gaza, Tatchell said his organization would > > actually prefer that the march be scheduled in Palestinian Ramallah > > rather than Jeru salem. But he added that news coverage of the Jerusalem > > ³World Pride² event would ³give comfort and hope to isolated, downcast > > queers throughout the Arab world.² > > > > He concluded, ³Imagine the hope and confidence such news will give to > > isolated, vulnerable LGBT people across the Middle East,² and that the > > event ³might help trigger the creation of LGBT movements in repressive, > > homophobic Middle Eastern states, including Palestine.² > > > > Voices from within Palestine and Lebanon sent a very different message. > > > > Voices from Palestine > > > > There already is a lesbian, bisexual, trans gender, queer and > > intersexual (LGBTQI) organization in historic Pales tine. It is called > > ³Aswat²‹which translates from Arabic to English as ³Voices.² Aswat works > > with LGBTQI groups and individuals in the Middle East. > > > > Aswat raised its voices early on regarding the Jerusalem march. > > > > In the English portion of its web site, Aswat states clearly that as > > Palestinian LGBTQI¹s living directly under military occu pation, and as > > part of a national min ority in Israel, ³[W]e are opposing this attempt > > to hold the international pride parade in Israel, particularly in > > Jerusalem, the heart of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. As the pride > > parade will be at a time for the gay and lesbian community to cele > > brate, Palestinians in Eastern occupied Jeru salem will continue to > > suffer under intensified checkpoints, increasing racism, house > > demolishing, confiscating IDs and expanding of Israeli settlements. > > > > ³Therefore, ASWAT‹a Palestinian gay women group‹decided not to take part > > in the World Pride 2006.² > > > > A promotional DVD for the Jerusalem events had promised ³great parties² > > and stressed that ³out² gay and lesbian soldiers can fight in the > > Israeli Army. The propaganda DVD denounced the Palestinian Authority for > > its alleged treatment of its same-sex-loving population and claimed that > > the Palestinian resistance‹the Intifada‹made it harder for lesbian and > > gay Palestinians to ³escape² to Israel. (The Coalition to Boycott World > > Pride) > > > > Aswat emphasized that these are soldiers in an occupying, oppressive > > army. ³This is an insult to our struggle for freedom and tolerance. In > > Israel, violence and hatred are articulated through homophobia and > > xenophobia, and this very same violence is evident in racism, occupation > > and war crimes.² > > > > In a recent interview, Aswat co-founder and group coordinator Rauda > > Morcos explained, ³We are focusing on our work within the Palestinian > > community. We believe we need to have our allies within the community > > before having them around the world. This is very important because > > without the support of our community, we cannot exist. The other thing > > we are focusing on is deliberating the change that is happening within > > the Palestinian community without comparing that to what is happening in > > the world. Each community has its own ways, its own scale, its own time, > > and our time has started, and we¹re happy with that.² > > > > When asked how Palestinians viewed her as an ³out² lesbian, Morcos > > concluded, ³I think Aswat¹s existence proves there are seeds of change. > > I think we are on the agenda‹of the Palestinian social agenda. I think > > we¹re there, and I think it¹s very important that the change has to > > happen. I think it wouldn¹t happen without Aswat, and it wouldn¹t happen > > without the support within the community and without having supportive > > media in our community.² (gay.com) > > > > Lebanese support for Palestine > > > > The group Helem (translated into English as ³dreams²) describes itself > > in the English-language portion of its Arabic website as a non-profit > > organization in Lebanon, working on various human rights issues, > > including LGBTIQ equality. > > > > As part of its emergency action under Israeli bombardment, the website > > explains that the Helem center is helping to provide shelter, food and > > other supplies to the refugees who have poured in from the southern > > suburbs of Beirut and the south of Lebanon. (helem.net) > > > > The organization states, ³Helem supports the global movement to boycott > > Jerusalem World Pride 2006 as part of the international boycott of, and > > divestment from Israel. Helem strongly condemns holding World Pride in a > > city beleaguered by violence and conflict, and where the words ŒLove > > without Borders¹ belie a reality of separation, ubiquitous borders, > > destruction of homes and livelihoods, land theft, gross human rights > > violations and the apartheid policies of Israel.² > > > > Helem concluded that, ³the rights of gays, lesbians, bisexuals and > > transgenders should not be placed in competition with the long struggle > > of the Palestinian people, including Palestinian LGBT people, for > > self-determination, for the right to return to their homes, and the > > struggle against apartheid and the occupation of their lands.² > > > > Progressive opposition to the week of ³World Pride² events in Jerusalem > > had been building around the world. The march‹expected to draw tens of > > thousands‹would have violated the widening call to boycott Israel, > > infused the settler state¹s tourism economy with cash, and politically > > promoted the Israel settler state as a ³democracy² in the Middle East. > > > > Faisal Alam, a gay Muslim of Pakistani descent who co-founded > > Al-Fatiha‹an international gay Muslim organization‹wrote that the > > Israeli occupation of Palestinians is so brutal that, ³With this in > > mind, I cannot support an event that will seemingly ignore the suffering > > of Pales tinians‹both queer and straight‹in the Occupied Territories, > > the West Bank and Gaza.² (southernvoice.com) > > > > The Coalition to Boycott World Pride, which described itself as > > ³individuals and groups working for the liberation of all oppressed > > peoples,² stressed that ³LGBT, intersex and other queer-identified > > people, should not be placed in competition with the long struggle of > > the Palestinian people, including Palestinian LGBTIQ people, for > > self-determination, for the right to return to their homes, and the > > struggle against apartheid and the occupation of their lands. We urge > > all people who seek peace and justice to support the travel boycott of > > World Pride Jerusalem as part of the boycott of Israeli goods, and the > > call to divest from Israel.² > > > > Turn the political guns around! > > > > This political struggle regarding Iran and Palestine takes place within > > the context of a burgeoning battle between imperialism and the countries > > of the Middle East that are resisting its demands to surrender their > > sovereignty and right to self-determination. > > > > Those who argue that Islam is the problem and that pressure from the > > imperialist democracies‹who have historically arrayed their forces under > > the banner of Christianity‹is the solution are lining up with the > > oppressor in this war, not the oppressed. > > > > It was colonialism and later imperialism that imposed anti-³sodomy² > > laws‹a term that comes from the Bible, not the Quran‹from Africa to the > > Middle East, from Asia to the Americas, in its effort to restructure > > social relations in these countries to its economic interests. > > > > The French Mandate imposed anti-sodomy laws in Lebanon; the British > > Mandate made it law in Palestine. > > > > Imperialism is not going to bring democracy as a form of state rule to > > the Middle East or Central Asia or any other part of the world it seeks > > to dominate economically. > > > > In the imperialist centers, democracy is a form of class rule by the > > capitalists over the vast laboring class. But even in a democracy, state > > repression‹particularly against nationally oppressed peoples within the > > imperialist citadels‹is cruel. And challenge to capitalist rule can > > shift the form of state quickly to a more iron-fisted rule, as the rise > > of fascism in Germany, Italy and Spain demonstrated. > > > > Imperialist super-exploitation around the world requires a much more > > brutal form of state dictatorship than democracy. The Iranian people > > remember. They lived under a fascist ³regime change² by the U.S. and > > Britain that installed a king‹the Shah‹on the peacock throne. > > > > Imperialism is not looking to bring ³progress² to the oppressed. > > Washington cheered the restoration of semi-feudal social relations in > > Afghanistan after drowning in blood a democratic revolution there that > > had been supported by the Soviet Union. And the CIA has brought medieval > > torture techniques, employing anti-gay and anti-trans humiliation and > > violence, to its makeshift prisons in Afghanistan and Iraq. > > > > For decades, U.S. imperialism has waged a war to annihilate the > > left-wing leaders of resistance movements in the Middle East and Central > > Asia, creating a void that the Islamic forces are filling today. > > > > So now, imperialism‹which had relied on some of these same forces to > > crush communist resistance in the region‹has turned to Islam bashing as > > its justification for economic and military warfare against any > > government and people who resist its rule, from Afghanistan to Iraq, > > Iran to Palestine. > > > > Like the German Homosexual Eman cipation movement, which was derailed > > when it supported is own ruling class on the eve of World War I, any > > progressive movement that does not fight its own imperialist bosses and > > oppose a war for an empire built on super-profits surrenders its > > independence and kneels before its own oppressor class. > > > > The gay liberation struggles in the U.S. during the 1950s, 1960s and > > 1970s gained power from organizing against the Korean and Vietnam wars. > > > > It is too late to expose the pretexts and ³justifications² for > > imperialist war after the fact. The movement for sexual, gender and sex > > liberation needs to turn its political guns around now on the real enemy > > of the world¹s people‹imperialism! n > > > > Email: lfeinberg@workers.org > > > > This article is copyright under a Creative Commons License. > > Workers World, 55 W. 17 St., NY, NY 10011 > > Email: ww@workers.org > > Subscribe wwnews-subscribe@workersworld.net > > Support independent news http://www.workers.org/orders/donate.php > > site promotion > > > > Page printed from: > > http://www.workers.org/2006/world/mideast-lgbt-0803/ > > > > > > -- > > Stay Strong > > > > -"I testified/My mama cried/Black people died/When the other man lied" > > -- chuck d > > > > "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" > > --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as) > > \ > > "We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit > > to a process of humiliation." > > --patrick o'neil > > \ > > "...we have the responsibility to make no deal with the oppressor" > > --harry belafonte > > \ > > "...in time, we will look back to this age with incredulity and > > amazement -- and victories like Hamas in Israel will be the *best* of > > our memories." -- mumia abu jamal -- "what state? what union?" > > > > "...these people generate wars in Asia and Africa,...These are the > > people who, in the last century, caused several devastating wars. In one > > world war alone, they killed over 60 million people.... In the near > > future, Allah willing, we will put you to trial in courts established by > > the peoples...."-- mahmoud ahmadinejad > > \ > > > > http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a047braithwaite.php > > > > http://cleveland.indymedia.org/uploads/2006/07/olivet___h.a.t.s_in_the_square_ > > __loud_ruffa1b.mp3 > > \ > > http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7255.php > > \ > > http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date > > \ > > http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/en_fins__clichy-sous_bois_amixquiet-_lordpa > > tch_the_giver__.mp3 > > \ > > http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ > > \ > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 13:34:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: Struggle over Middle East reaches into world LGBT movements In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE cf ibid. On Thu, 27 Jul 2006, Ruth Lepson wrote: > I can't keep quiet any longer even though I have no time to get into this > discussion. But please think abt what you are saying. Israel--what is it = to > do? It is a tiny country surrounded by tens of thousands of people who wa= nt > the Jews dead. If you have been there you know the situation is much more > complex than Israel imperialist--they are trying to survive. I wish peopl= e > wd get as worked up abt what is happening in southern Africa & other poor > parts of the world as they do abt Israel. Every day 60,000 people, 75% of > them women & children of color, die of hunger-related issues.Israel has d= one > some things wrong but not the way you portray them. I am in general > extremely left-leaning but in the case of Israel, partly bec I am Jewish = but > not only bec of that, I see many leftists overgeneralizing & blaming in a > knee-jerk way. Stop jerking those knees, please. Read the history of the > Middle East. > > > On 7/27/06 9:40 AM, "Ishaq" wrote: > >> http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=3Den/node/1578 >> >> >> ...July 19 events in some two dozen cities worldwide called for regime >> change in Iran. And the annual =B3World Pride=B2 march =8Bincongruously = themed >> =B3Love without Borders=B2=8Bwas scheduled to take place in occupied Jer= usalem >> on Aug. 10, making Israel appear to be a bastion of liberty in the >> Middle East.But Israel=8Bthe apartheid, theocratic imperialist power >> threatening the entire Middle East=8Bwas blasting the population and >> infrastructure of Gaza and pounding Lebanon with U.S.-supplied bunker >> buster bombs...Like the German Homosexual Eman cipation movement, which >> was derailed when it supported is own ruling class on the eve of World >> War I, any progressive movement that does not fight its own imperialist >> bosses and oppose a war for an empire built on super-profits surrenders >> its independence and kneels before its own oppressor class. The gay >> liberation struggles in the U.S. during the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s >> gained power from organizing against the Korean and Vietnam wars. >> >> >> Struggle over Middle East reaches into world LGBT movements >> Published Jul 27, 2006 12:18 AM >> >> Imagine a group of individuals standing on the deck of an imperialist >> gunboat, under the shadow of cannons aimed and readied to fire at a >> country=8Bformerly or currently colonized. The group is shouting at the >> targeted government, =B3We demand your surrender too, but for progressiv= e >> reasons!=B2 >> >> That=B9s the position of those based in the imperialist U.S., Britain an= d >> France who are directing their political fire against the popularly >> elected Palestinian and Iranian leaderships, based on what they say are >> violations of gay rights in those countries. >> >> Their political campaign has ratcheted up. July 19 events in some two >> dozen cities worldwide called for regime change in Iran. And the annual >> =B3World Pride=B2 march =8Bincongruously themed =B3Love without Borders= =B2=8Bwas >> scheduled to take place in occupied Jerusalem on Aug. 10, making Israel >> appear to be a bastion of liberty in the Middle East. >> >> But Israel=8Bthe apartheid, theocratic imperialist power threatening the >> entire Middle East=8Bwas blasting the population and infrastructure of >> Gaza and pounding Lebanon with U.S.-supplied bunker buster bombs, while >> the U.S. Navy Central Command was positioning its war armada off >> Lebanon=B9s shores. >> >> On July 21, the Israeli government canceled the pride march. The stated >> reason was that the widening war was drawing troops and police who would >> be needed to guard the march. The unstated reason is that the Israeli >> coalition government needs to cement unity with its own theocratic base. >> The Israeli ruling coalition faced a motion of non-confidence from two >> religious parties within its government on July 10 that demanded the >> cancellation of the march in Jerusalem. >> >> Taking aim at Palestine >> >> The July 19 events were taking aim at Iran=8Bdrawing handfuls of >> individuals in some cities, scores in others=8Bat the same time that the >> Palestinian and Lebanese people were at ground zero of the bombs and >> bullets. This widening Israeli assault in the region=8Ba proxy war waged >> in the economic, strategic and military interests of U.S. finance >> capital=8Bis also aimed at Iran, as well as Syria. >> >> The call for anti-Iran events on July 19 was issued by OutRage!, a >> British gay human rights group, and the Paris-based International Day >> Against Homophobia. >> >> On the day of the July 19 anti-Iran events, Peter Tatchell, an OutRage! >> leader, issued a political statement from London in which he argued >> against the progressive movement boycotting =B3World Pride=B2 in Jer u >> salem, which had not yet been canceled. >> >> Tatchell claimed that opposition to the Jerusalem march was coming from >> groups based in Western countries=8Ba criti cism more accurately leveled >> at his July 19 anti-Iran organizing. >> >> As the Israelis laid siege to Gaza, Tatchell said his organization would >> actually prefer that the march be scheduled in Palestinian Ramallah >> rather than Jeru salem. But he added that news coverage of the Jerusalem >> =B3World Pride=B2 event would =B3give comfort and hope to isolated, down= cast >> queers throughout the Arab world.=B2 >> >> He concluded, =B3Imagine the hope and confidence such news will give to >> isolated, vulnerable LGBT people across the Middle East,=B2 and that the >> event =B3might help trigger the creation of LGBT movements in repressive= , >> homophobic Middle Eastern states, including Palestine.=B2 >> >> Voices from within Palestine and Lebanon sent a very different message. >> >> Voices from Palestine >> >> There already is a lesbian, bisexual, trans gender, queer and >> intersexual (LGBTQI) organization in historic Pales tine. It is called >> =B3Aswat=B2=8Bwhich translates from Arabic to English as =B3Voices.=B2 A= swat works >> with LGBTQI groups and individuals in the Middle East. >> >> Aswat raised its voices early on regarding the Jerusalem march. >> >> In the English portion of its web site, Aswat states clearly that as >> Palestinian LGBTQI=B9s living directly under military occu pation, and a= s >> part of a national min ority in Israel, =B3[W]e are opposing this attemp= t >> to hold the international pride parade in Israel, particularly in >> Jerusalem, the heart of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. As the pride >> parade will be at a time for the gay and lesbian community to cele >> brate, Palestinians in Eastern occupied Jeru salem will continue to >> suffer under intensified checkpoints, increasing racism, house >> demolishing, confiscating IDs and expanding of Israeli settlements. >> >> =B3Therefore, ASWAT=8Ba Palestinian gay women group=8Bdecided not to tak= e part >> in the World Pride 2006.=B2 >> >> A promotional DVD for the Jerusalem events had promised =B3great parties= =B2 >> and stressed that =B3out=B2 gay and lesbian soldiers can fight in the >> Israeli Army. The propaganda DVD denounced the Palestinian Authority for >> its alleged treatment of its same-sex-loving population and claimed that >> the Palestinian resistance=8Bthe Intifada=8Bmade it harder for lesbian a= nd >> gay Palestinians to =B3escape=B2 to Israel. (The Coalition to Boycott Wo= rld >> Pride) >> >> Aswat emphasized that these are soldiers in an occupying, oppressive >> army. =B3This is an insult to our struggle for freedom and tolerance. In >> Israel, violence and hatred are articulated through homophobia and >> xenophobia, and this very same violence is evident in racism, occupation >> and war crimes.=B2 >> >> In a recent interview, Aswat co-founder and group coordinator Rauda >> Morcos explained, =B3We are focusing on our work within the Palestinian >> community. We believe we need to have our allies within the community >> before having them around the world. This is very important because >> without the support of our community, we cannot exist. The other thing >> we are focusing on is deliberating the change that is happening within >> the Palestinian community without comparing that to what is happening in >> the world. Each community has its own ways, its own scale, its own time, >> and our time has started, and we=B9re happy with that.=B2 >> >> When asked how Palestinians viewed her as an =B3out=B2 lesbian, Morcos >> concluded, =B3I think Aswat=B9s existence proves there are seeds of chan= ge. >> I think we are on the agenda=8Bof the Palestinian social agenda. I think >> we=B9re there, and I think it=B9s very important that the change has to >> happen. I think it wouldn=B9t happen without Aswat, and it wouldn=B9t ha= ppen >> without the support within the community and without having supportive >> media in our community.=B2 (gay.com) >> >> Lebanese support for Palestine >> >> The group Helem (translated into English as =B3dreams=B2) describes itse= lf >> in the English-language portion of its Arabic website as a non-profit >> organization in Lebanon, working on various human rights issues, >> including LGBTIQ equality. >> >> As part of its emergency action under Israeli bombardment, the website >> explains that the Helem center is helping to provide shelter, food and >> other supplies to the refugees who have poured in from the southern >> suburbs of Beirut and the south of Lebanon. (helem.net) >> >> The organization states, =B3Helem supports the global movement to boycot= t >> Jerusalem World Pride 2006 as part of the international boycott of, and >> divestment from Israel. Helem strongly condemns holding World Pride in a >> city beleaguered by violence and conflict, and where the words =8CLove >> without Borders=B9 belie a reality of separation, ubiquitous borders, >> destruction of homes and livelihoods, land theft, gross human rights >> violations and the apartheid policies of Israel.=B2 >> >> Helem concluded that, =B3the rights of gays, lesbians, bisexuals and >> transgenders should not be placed in competition with the long struggle >> of the Palestinian people, including Palestinian LGBT people, for >> self-determination, for the right to return to their homes, and the >> struggle against apartheid and the occupation of their lands.=B2 >> >> Progressive opposition to the week of =B3World Pride=B2 events in Jerusa= lem >> had been building around the world. The march=8Bexpected to draw tens of >> thousands=8Bwould have violated the widening call to boycott Israel, >> infused the settler state=B9s tourism economy with cash, and politically >> promoted the Israel settler state as a =B3democracy=B2 in the Middle Eas= t. >> >> Faisal Alam, a gay Muslim of Pakistani descent who co-founded >> Al-Fatiha=8Ban international gay Muslim organization=8Bwrote that the >> Israeli occupation of Palestinians is so brutal that, =B3With this in >> mind, I cannot support an event that will seemingly ignore the suffering >> of Pales tinians=8Bboth queer and straight=8Bin the Occupied Territories= , >> the West Bank and Gaza.=B2 (southernvoice.com) >> >> The Coalition to Boycott World Pride, which described itself as >> =B3individuals and groups working for the liberation of all oppressed >> peoples,=B2 stressed that =B3LGBT, intersex and other queer-identified >> people, should not be placed in competition with the long struggle of >> the Palestinian people, including Palestinian LGBTIQ people, for >> self-determination, for the right to return to their homes, and the >> struggle against apartheid and the occupation of their lands. We urge >> all people who seek peace and justice to support the travel boycott of >> World Pride Jerusalem as part of the boycott of Israeli goods, and the >> call to divest from Israel.=B2 >> >> Turn the political guns around! >> >> This political struggle regarding Iran and Palestine takes place within >> the context of a burgeoning battle between imperialism and the countries >> of the Middle East that are resisting its demands to surrender their >> sovereignty and right to self-determination. >> >> Those who argue that Islam is the problem and that pressure from the >> imperialist democracies=8Bwho have historically arrayed their forces und= er >> the banner of Christianity=8Bis the solution are lining up with the >> oppressor in this war, not the oppressed. >> >> It was colonialism and later imperialism that imposed anti-=B3sodomy=B2 >> laws=8Ba term that comes from the Bible, not the Quran=8Bfrom Africa to = the >> Middle East, from Asia to the Americas, in its effort to restructure >> social relations in these countries to its economic interests. >> >> The French Mandate imposed anti-sodomy laws in Lebanon; the British >> Mandate made it law in Palestine. >> >> Imperialism is not going to bring democracy as a form of state rule to >> the Middle East or Central Asia or any other part of the world it seeks >> to dominate economically. >> >> In the imperialist centers, democracy is a form of class rule by the >> capitalists over the vast laboring class. But even in a democracy, state >> repression=8Bparticularly against nationally oppressed peoples within th= e >> imperialist citadels=8Bis cruel. And challenge to capitalist rule can >> shift the form of state quickly to a more iron-fisted rule, as the rise >> of fascism in Germany, Italy and Spain demonstrated. >> >> Imperialist super-exploitation around the world requires a much more >> brutal form of state dictatorship than democracy. The Iranian people >> remember. They lived under a fascist =B3regime change=B2 by the U.S. and >> Britain that installed a king=8Bthe Shah=8Bon the peacock throne. >> >> Imperialism is not looking to bring =B3progress=B2 to the oppressed. >> Washington cheered the restoration of semi-feudal social relations in >> Afghanistan after drowning in blood a democratic revolution there that >> had been supported by the Soviet Union. And the CIA has brought medieval >> torture techniques, employing anti-gay and anti-trans humiliation and >> violence, to its makeshift prisons in Afghanistan and Iraq. >> >> For decades, U.S. imperialism has waged a war to annihilate the >> left-wing leaders of resistance movements in the Middle East and Central >> Asia, creating a void that the Islamic forces are filling today. >> >> So now, imperialism=8Bwhich had relied on some of these same forces to >> crush communist resistance in the region=8Bhas turned to Islam bashing a= s >> its justification for economic and military warfare against any >> government and people who resist its rule, from Afghanistan to Iraq, >> Iran to Palestine. >> >> Like the German Homosexual Eman cipation movement, which was derailed >> when it supported is own ruling class on the eve of World War I, any >> progressive movement that does not fight its own imperialist bosses and >> oppose a war for an empire built on super-profits surrenders its >> independence and kneels before its own oppressor class. >> >> The gay liberation struggles in the U.S. during the 1950s, 1960s and >> 1970s gained power from organizing against the Korean and Vietnam wars. >> >> It is too late to expose the pretexts and =B3justifications=B2 for >> imperialist war after the fact. The movement for sexual, gender and sex >> liberation needs to turn its political guns around now on the real enemy >> of the world=B9s people=8Bimperialism! n >> >> Email: lfeinberg@workers.org >> >> This article is copyright under a Creative Commons License. >> Workers World, 55 W. 17 St., NY, NY 10011 >> Email: ww@workers.org >> Subscribe wwnews-subscribe@workersworld.net >> Support independent news http://www.workers.org/orders/donate.php >> site promotion >> >> Page printed from: >> http://www.workers.org/2006/world/mideast-lgbt-0803/ >> >> >> -- >> Stay Strong >> >> -"I testified/My mama cried/Black people died/When the other man lied" >> -- chuck d >> >> "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" >> --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as) >> \ >> "We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit >> to a process of humiliation." >> --patrick o'neil >> \ >> "...we have the responsibility to make no deal with the oppressor" >> --harry belafonte >> \ >> "...in time, we will look back to this age with incredulity and >> amazement -- and victories like Hamas in Israel will be the *best* of >> our memories." -- mumia abu jamal -- "what state? what union?" >> >> "...these people generate wars in Asia and Africa,...These are the >> people who, in the last century, caused several devastating wars. In one >> world war alone, they killed over 60 million people.... In the near >> future, Allah willing, we will put you to trial in courts established by >> the peoples...."-- mahmoud ahmadinejad >> \ >> >> http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a047braithwaite.php >> >> http://cleveland.indymedia.org/uploads/2006/07/olivet___h.a.t.s_in_the_s= quare_ >> __loud_ruffa1b.mp3 >> \ >> http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7255.php >> \ >> http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=3Dbraithwaite&orderBy=3Ddate >> \ >> http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/en_fins__clichy-sous_bois_amixquiet-_= lordpa >> tch_the_giver__.mp3 >> \ >> http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ >> \ > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 13:58:03 -0700 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Subject: Re: ric caddel wikipedia Comments: To: skyplums@juno.com In-Reply-To: <20060727.114124.-190799.12.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit You know I didn't write it, I don't even care to spell your name right. skyplums@juno.com wrote: anyone know who wrote my entry it sucks how can i change it Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 17:44:59 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Struggle over Middle East reaches into world LGBT movements MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 07/27/06 4:17:36 PM, aln10@PSU.EDU writes: > What is Israel to do? >=20 > Return to its internationally recognized '67 borders.=A0 Defend itself aga= inst=20 > any > incursions, with the full support of the international community. >=20 To paraphrase Hobbes, the root of both all social contracts and wars is fear= .=20 Could someone explain to me how one negotiates with an adversary who openly,= =20 literally (not implicitly or subject to interpratation) tells you you should= =20 not exist. Can you imagine a party giving up more land and making itself mor= e=20 vulnerable, in the face of such a clearly enunciated threat? Murat ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 17:36:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: Struggle over Middle East reaches into world LGBT movements In-Reply-To: <58e.167e0e2.31fa8ddb@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Why is it that that particular bit of rhetoric always seems to clog the pipes of peace? Makes me think of a film clip showing young Iranian women demonstrating in Teheran, chanting "Death to America" and then breaking off to chat happily with a couple of Americans who happened to be in the vicinity before resuming their marching and chanting. Hal Today's Special "The Wordless Life" http://xstream.xpressed.org/11hal.html Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@gmail.com halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Jul 27, 2006, at 4:44 PM, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > In a message dated 07/27/06 4:17:36 PM, aln10@PSU.EDU writes: > > >> What is Israel to do? >> >> Return to its internationally recognized '67 borders. Defend >> itself against >> any >> incursions, with the full support of the international community. >> > > To paraphrase Hobbes, the root of both all social contracts and > wars is fear. > Could someone explain to me how one negotiates with an adversary > who openly, > literally (not implicitly or subject to interpratation) tells you > you should > not exist. Can you imagine a party giving up more land and making > itself more > vulnerable, in the face of such a clearly enunciated threat? > > Murat ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 15:47:55 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: Struggle over Middle East reaches into world LGBT movements In-Reply-To: <0066FA85-A899-4FDF-AA77-4535C8214EAA@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Because Israeli's and their supporters are just as caught up in the cycle of hatred and violence as their opponents, and that sentiment is exploited by power hungry, malevolent, right wing interests in the United States and Israel. On Thu, 27 Jul 2006, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Why is it that that particular bit of rhetoric always > seems to clog the pipes of peace? Makes me think > of a film clip showing young Iranian women > demonstrating in Teheran, chanting "Death to > America" and then breaking off to chat happily > with a couple of Americans who happened to be > in the vicinity before resuming their marching and > chanting. > > Hal > > Today's Special > > "The Wordless Life" > http://xstream.xpressed.org/11hal.html > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard@gmail.com > halvard@earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > > > > > > On Jul 27, 2006, at 4:44 PM, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > >> In a message dated 07/27/06 4:17:36 PM, aln10@PSU.EDU writes: >> >> >>> What is Israel to do? >>> >>> Return to its internationally recognized '67 borders. Defend itself >>> against >>> any >>> incursions, with the full support of the international community. >>> >> >> To paraphrase Hobbes, the root of both all social contracts and wars is >> fear. >> Could someone explain to me how one negotiates with an adversary who openly, >> literally (not implicitly or subject to interpratation) tells you you should >> not exist. Can you imagine a party giving up more land and making itself >> more >> vulnerable, in the face of such a clearly enunciated threat? >> >> Murat > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 16:12:13 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Duncan Ground Work In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 25-Jul-06, at 10:27 AM, Diane DiPrima wrote: > > BTW, dourness might be the term for Eliot too. Don't know. I remember > first > reading him in high school at 15 and feeling sorry for the guy, and > more > than a bit annoyed at his insistence on GLUM. (On the personal level, I > guess I'd OD'ed on "glum" at home, being a depression child.) > > Enough for now. > > D. di P. > Yep, I started reading him around 14-15. He became one of my favourites, along with Crane. I didnt feel as if he was a downer. I was kind of exhilarated. Maybe because I was so much moved by the form, as compared with, say, Arnold. >> > Mr. G.Bowering Not found in the New Testament ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 16:40:16 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Struggle over Middle East reaches into world LGBT movements In-Reply-To: <58e.167e0e2.31fa8ddb@aol.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Can anyone explain what gives Israel - with the patent permission and financial/military, etc. support - the right to destroy Lebanon (a sovereig= n country) and disperse its diverse population into a never ending - it will seem - Diaspora?? Over a million people already uprooted, habitat destroye= d - let alone the injured, killed! What gives the USA - or let's what appears to be a Junta of its own constitutional rules - and Israel this exceptional right? Ironically, it seems to me, Israel is doing to Lebanon precisely what it fears most that may be done to itself. In fact, I am about to "x" every tim= e I hear Israel say that it's defending its right to exist. Would that it do so for Lebanon and Palestine. Like, for example, negotiate in good faith with both Palestinians and the Lebanese. What is the USA interest here? Every time I see Condoleezza on the television - giving her righteous 'creative birth pang chaos, let Israel destroy as much of Lebanon as they can' speech (so that 'we' let Iran and Syria know who's in charge of the Middle East), it is hard not see an archival picture backdrop of the Chevron oil tanker that Chevron once blessed with her name (before realizing, once she was in Bush's government that the association was too transparent.) It think it's histrionic to play the David and Goliath number as a means to define Israel. It's definitely lined up with Goliath, 'us' - and we's definitely having a hard time with the claws - whether it Afghanistan, Iraq or Lebanon. This operation seems as witless as the one in Iraq. In terms of the Arts, maybe it's becoming rapidly clear that restoring Diplomacy as an Art might serve us all much better than this horrifying craziness. Stephen V http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ >>=20 >> Return to its internationally recognized '67 borders.=A0 Defend itself aga= inst >> any >> incursions, with the full support of the international community. >>=20 >> To paraphrase Hobbes, the root of both all social contracts and wars is = fear. > Could someone explain to me how one negotiates with an adversary who open= ly, > literally (not implicitly or subject to interpratation) tells you you sho= uld > not exist. Can you imagine a party giving up more land and making itself = more > vulnerable, in the face of such a clearly enunciated threat? >=20 > Murat ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 16:38:57 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Quartermain Subject: Re: ric caddel wikipedia In-Reply-To: <20060726151831.61612.qmail@web32509.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Dunno. Why do you ask? ========= Peter Quartermain 846 Keefer Street Vancouver BC Canada V6A 1Y7 604 255 8274 (voice) 604 255 8204 fax quarterm@interchange.ubc.ca ========= -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of aaron tieger Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 8:19 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: ric caddel wikipedia Does anyone know who wrote the Ric Caddel entry on Wikipedia? aarontieger.blogspot.com carvepoems.org soonproductions.org "Make a sudden, destructive unpredictable action; incorporate." (Brian Eno) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 19:42:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: Struggle over Middle East reaches into world LGBT movements MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I've actually had the experience of negotiating with somebody who thought I should not exist, but that's another story for another day. When, exactly, has Israel "given up land"? let alone "more" -- They have withdrawn from land they occupied in war, following negotiations with the parties with whom they had been at war. They have recently withdrawn from Gaza -- but they have also gone back in when it suited them in response to attacks mounted from Gaza. Were they more vulnerable after the withdrawal from Gaza than they were before? To speak of giving up land implies that it was theirs to give up. The reasoning here is odd in the extreme. It seems to hold that, since people who don't believe Israel should exist threaten to attack Israel, therefore Israel should annex lands they have occupied in war. It seems to argue that to withdraw from occupied territories in itself makes Israel more vulnerable. And it would seem to propose that Israel has the unlimited right to creat "buffer" zones where and as it chooses for its own protection, which buffer zones themselves could well require additional territorial buffering if Israel still feels threatened. As I said to a previous correpondent, you may well feel that by destroying the infrastructure of Lebanon, creating hundreds of thousands of refugees and killing hundreds, Israel becomes less vulnerable. Sounds to me more like the reasoning that must go on in the heads of Hezbollah, who seem to think that attacking civilians in Israel is good for their cause. Thanks to our government's wink and nod, we will have time to see if that belief holds true. Nobody is going to stop Israel, so we will see if this strategy makes them less vulnerable in the long run. It certainly doesn't look to me like it's worked to that effect in the past. On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 17:44:59, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > In a message dated 07/27/06 4:17:36 PM, aln10@PSU.EDU writes: > > > > What is Israel to do? > > > > Return to its internationally recognized '67 borders. Defend itself against > > any > > incursions, with the full support of the international community. > > > > To paraphrase Hobbes, the root of both all social contracts and wars is fear. > Could someone explain to me how one negotiates with an adversary who openly, > literally (not implicitly or subject to interpratation) tells you you should > not exist. Can you imagine a party giving up more land and making itself more > vulnerable, in the face of such a clearly enunciated threat? > > Murat > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 20:03:36 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Struggle over Middle East reaches into world LGBT movements MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 07/27/06 7:43:04 PM, aln10@PSU.EDU writes: > I've actually had the experience of negotiating with somebody who thought I > should not exist, but that's another story for another day > Not really, How did you react to this situation? Murat ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 19:38:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: ric caddel wikipedia In-Reply-To: <000001c6b1d5$d61a5c40$a65e17cf@Diogenes> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed The entry has been edited by seven separate account, originally =20 posted in Jan 04. If you get an account (and anyone can) at =20 wikipedia you can then view the history of additions & edits as well =20 as having access to making your own edits. ~mIEKAL > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group =20 > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > Behalf Of aaron tieger > Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 8:19 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: ric caddel wikipedia > > Does anyone know who wrote the Ric Caddel entry on Wikipedia? A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they =20 will never sit =97Greek proverb ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 21:08:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Fwd: [Msa-members] CONF John Cage and Buckminster Fuller Comments: To: WRYTING-L@listserv.utoronto.ca Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Symposium > >"Geodesic Mathematics and Random Chaos: John Cage and Buckminster Fuller" > >Saturday, September 16th, 2006 > >Northern Illinois University, DeKalb, IL 60115 USA > >www.vpa.niu.edu/events/symposium.html > > >"Geodesic Mathematics and Random Chaos: John Cage and Buckminster >Fuller" is a one-day symposium and concert, Saturday, September >16th, 2006,celebrating the work and friendship of this acclaimed >pair of twentieth century innovators. Organized by the School of >Art at Northern Illinois University, DeKalb, the symposium will >feature several speakers, including Mary Emma Harris, director of >the Black Mountain College Project, Richard Kostelanetz, independent >artist and scholar, and Allegra Fuller Snyder, professor emerita of >dance and dance ethnology, UCLA. Additional events include a >performance of Cage's "Cartridge Music" by IMMArts and and a gala >evening concert of music by reknowned composer Larry Austin. > >The symposium is sponsored in part by the School of Art's Elizabeth >Allen Visiting Scholars Series. It accompanies "Geodesic >Mathematics and Random Chaos: John Cage and Buckminster Fuller," an >exhibition in the Jack Olson Gallery of the School of Art, Northern >Illinois University, DeKalb, August 28 - September 29th, 2006. >Advanced registration for the sympsoium is required. Fees are $15 >for students and $35 for the general public (plus $5 processing fee) >and include continental breakfast, lunch and an exhibition brochure. >Registrants at the $35 level also are invited to a catered reception >in the gallery just prior to the Austin concert and will receive >documentation of the symposium proceedings. > > >Program > >Saturday, September 16th, 8:30am-8pm > > >8:30-9:00am >Registration/refreshments >Atrium, NIU School of Music Building > >9:00-9:15am >Welcoming Remarks >Room 173, NIU School of Music Building > >9:15-9:45am >Introduction: "Chance Operations in a Dymaxion World" >Barbara Jaffee, Associate Professor of Art History, Northern Illinois >University >Room 173, NIU School of Music Building > >10:00-10:50am >"The Cage/Fuller Finishing School: Lunchtime Musings at Black >Mountain College" >Mary Emma Harris, Independent Scholar and Director, Black Mountain >CollegeProject >Room 173, NIU School of Music Building > >11:00-11:50am >"It Was John's Laugh: Recollections of John and Bucky Together" >Allegra Fuller Snyder, Professor Emerita of Dance and Dance Ethnology, UCLA >Room 173, NIU School of Music Building > >12:00-12:50pm >Lunch >Atrium, NIU School of Music Building > >1:00-1:50pm >Performance of John Cage's "Cartridge Music" by IMMArts >Recital Hall, NIU School of Music Building > >2:00-2:50pm >"Polyartistry: Moholy-Nagy, John Cage, and Bucky Fuller" >Richard Kostelanetz, Independent Scholar, New York >Room 173, NIU School of Music Building > >3:00-3:50pm >Round-table Discussion >Larry Austin, Mary Emma Harris, Richard Kostelanetz, Allegra Fuller Snyder >Barbara Jaffee, moderator >Room 173, NIU School of Music Building > >4:00-5:30pm >Wine-and-cheese reception >Jack Olson Gallery, Room 200, NIU School of Art Visual Arts Building > >6:00-8:00pm >Gala Concert: An Evening of Music by Composer Larry Austin >"Cage, His Music, and My Own," illustrated remarks by Larry Austin >Introduction by Richard Kostelanetz; performances by Stephen Duke, >saxophone, and Peter Middleton, flute; produced by the Annex Group, >James Phelps, director >Concert Hall, NIU School of Music Building > > >For a complete program and to register, please visit >www.vpa.niu.edu/events/symposium.html > > >------------------- >Barbara Jaffee, Ph.D. >Associate Professor of Art History >Northern Illinois University >DeKalb, Illinois 60115 >Phone: 815. 753-7876 >Fax: 815. 753-7701 >email: bjaffee@niu.edu > >_______________________________________________ >Msa-members mailing list >Msa-members@jhupress.jhu.edu >http://chaos.press.jhu.edu/mailman/listinfo/msa-members ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 01:53:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: praising juliana spahr Comments: To: WOM-PO@LISTS.USM.MAINE.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit specifically her ethics of interconnectedness __________________________________ http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 02:22:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andy Gricevich Subject: LGBT and the Middle East MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Why do none of the posts address the rather unusual content of the initial batch of stories? The arguments over Palestine yesterday are the same ones that always happen, basically (not that I'm uninterested in reading intelligent people's rephrasings), whereas I hear very little about GLBTQI organizations in the Middle East... and it's crucial for western queers to be faced with the argument that their (our) failure to link their struggles with "seemingly unrelated" forms of oppression (i.e., those that aren't directly and exclusively "gay rights" issues) amounts to shooting themselves in their collective foot. This is especially needed in the most tolerant U.S. cities, where the assimilationist ideal tends to be strongest. At the same time, it's equally crucial for straight progressives to take off the blinders and put some work into--or at least lend support for--less traditional left issues, like the backlash against all rights of queers of all kinds that's going on now. To abstain from fighting anti-gay marriage legislation, for instance, is utterly idiotic on the part of the various movements working for peace, human rights, and economic justice in other areas. Thanks for the articles, which show that--at least in some places (and look which ones!)--these problems aren't thought of as disconnected. cheers, Andy --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 06:48:02 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AMBogle2@AOL.COM Subject: Cool MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To put something in perspective, I wrote short stories steadily until 1991, at the advent of the Gulf War, and would have continued, certainly -- one of the war stories from '91, "What Kiss," was published in '93 in Gulf Coast -- except that a boyfriend of three months assailed me and threatened me on an answering machine tape then took a position in my department, despite a kind of quiet protest coming from my corner. It is, I think, obvious how hard it would be to protest anything successfully. The upshot for me was that my relationship with my own writing was threatened, never to return to the steady flow I had enjoyed with it. I have only written two short stories since then but have written other things, mostly not available. My blog is a notebook of mixing genres, something I was pioneering then, in '91. At a party at school, our "head of class," not the best writer nor the worst, a gal, really, announced to my table that my voice was glamorous and that my friend was cool. We are still in this condition. She is cool; my voice is kind of nice or sweet. My writing voice, however, is male, often, authoritative, sometimes. I would make a reading tape, but I don't have audio on my pc. We were popular in 4th grade, that group of girls, and then again at 25 -- more childish attacks had threatened my blossoming -- and then again at 35. But, by 35, I was only popular in AA until I stood up for that Jewish woman then I was hit, at my car, and the police interrogated me after I called them. Even our Jewish man did not like that Jewish woman. I was her ally, but I was his, too. I think it worried him that someone might try to matchmake him with her since both were divorcing, and I could see it not working that way, since he was more conservative and she was more reform. Then he left town to take a job, and the group got really horrid without him there. It was like a Tarrantino movie with lots of death. Incidentally, the Jewish man, had his first poem published in The New Yorker when he was 19 and a student at U of MN. It was very strange and happy to meet up with such a young starter as he in a rec room in a little side town in AA. He had lived for 18 years in Japan and was 50. His wife had vetoed a poetry career. He was really very wonderful and knowledgable about literature and religion and not in any way a program man. He was intending to write fantasy now that he was divorcing. I'd like to know when I think about it: if cool is what he was. He was a business man, an exec. from Japan. He gave the impression of someone who had run down fifty flights of stairs away from a downsizing; then there was nothing corporate for him to do here in the U.S. I think he was more mature than cool, actually. amb ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 06:14:58 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: But They're From Out of Town! In-Reply-To: <44C9B471.3020102@ilstu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Well, Huth and Vassilakis have travelled a long way -- and when was the last time you got to hear Ms. Kaufman read?? Geof Huth, Erica Kaufman, & Nico Vassilakis Mipo Reading Series (hosted by Amy King) @ stain bar Friday, July 28, 7PM 766 grand street (L to Grand, 1 block west) http://www.stainbar.com/ *STAIN *is a unique arts lounge* *dedicated to local products and talent. ____ Geof Huth is a writer of textual and visual poetry. He writes frequently about visual poetry, especially on his weblog, dbqp: visualizing poetics . His chapbooks include Analphabet, The Dreams of the Fishwife, ghostlight, Peristyle, To a Small Stream of Water (or Ditch) , and wreadings. Huth recently edited &2: an/thology of pwoermds, the first-ever anthology of one-word poems. His most recent book was a box of pages entitled water vapour. Next up is the chapbook Out of Water from Paper Kite Press. Erica Kaufman co-curates the belladonna* reading series/small press and is the author of the chapbooks: from the two coat syndrome , the kickboxer suite, and a familiar album (winner of the 2003 New School Chapbook Contest). Her poems have appeared in or are forthcoming in Puppy Flowers, Bombay Gin, The Mississippi Review, Jubilat, Good Foot, CARVE, and elsewhere.\n \n \nNico Vassilakis lives in Seattle where he is a member of SubText. A father of one Radio. And working on a play about Morton Feldman to be presented in August. Recent chapbooks include Askew (bcc press), The Amputation of L Mendax (Writers Forum), & SPIECES PIECES (gong press). His concrete/visual poetry can be found electronically sprinkled on internet. \n \n____ \n \nHope to see you there! Amy King & Didi Menendez \nMiPOesias -- http://www.mipoesias.com MiPOradio -- http://www.miporadio.net/index1.html Reading Series -- \nhttp://miporeadingseries.blogspot.com/ Managing Editor -- http://www.amyking.org/blog",1] ); //--> Erica Kaufman co-curates the belladonna* reading series/small press and is the author of the chapbooks: from the two coat syndrome , the kickboxer suite, and a familiar album (winner of the 2003 New School Chapbook Contest). Her poems have appeared in or are forthcoming in Puppy Flowers, Bombay Gin, The Mississippi Review, Jubilat, Good Foot, CARVE, and elsewhere. Nico Vassilakis lives in Seattle where he is a member of SubText. A father of one Radio. And working on a play about Morton Feldman to be presented in August. Recent chapbooks include Askew (bcc press), The Amputation of L Mendax (Writers Forum), & SPIECES PIECES (gong press). His concrete/visual poetry can be found electronically sprinkled on internet. ____ Hope to see you there! Amy King & Didi Menendez MiPOesias -- http://www.mipoesias.com MiPOradio -- http://www.miporadio.net/index1.html Reading Series -- http://miporeadingseries.blogspot.com/ Managing Editor -- http://www.amyking.org/blog \n \n \n \n \n \n \n\n ",0] ); D(["ce"]); //--> --------------------------------- Groups are talking. We´re listening. Check out the handy changes to Yahoo! Groups. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 06:16:26 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: But They're From Out of Town! In-Reply-To: <44C9B471.3020102@ilstu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Well, Huth and Vassilakis have travelled a long way -- and when was the last time you got to hear Ms. Kaufman read?? Please stop by **tonight** ----> Geof Huth, Erica Kaufman, & Nico Vassilakis Mipo Reading Series (hosted by Amy King) @ stain bar Friday, July 28, 7PM 766 grand street (L to Grand, 1 block west) http://www.stainbar.com/ *STAIN *is a unique arts lounge* *dedicated to local products and talent. ____ Geof Huth is a writer of textual and visual poetry. He writes frequently about visual poetry, especially on his weblog, dbqp: visualizing poetics . His chapbooks include Analphabet, The Dreams of the Fishwife, ghostlight, Peristyle, To a Small Stream of Water (or Ditch) , and wreadings. Huth recently edited &2: an/thology of pwoermds, the first-ever anthology of one-word poems. His most recent book was a box of pages entitled water vapour. Next up is the chapbook Out of Water from Paper Kite Press. Erica Kaufman co-curates the belladonna* reading series/small press and is the author of the chapbooks: from the two coat syndrome , the kickboxer suite, and a familiar album (winner of the 2003 New School Chapbook Contest). Her poems have appeared in or are forthcoming in Puppy Flowers, Bombay Gin, The Mississippi Review, Jubilat, Good Foot, CARVE, and elsewhere.\n \n \nNico Vassilakis lives in Seattle where he is a member of SubText. A father of one Radio. And working on a play about Morton Feldman to be presented in August. Recent chapbooks include Askew (bcc press), The Amputation of L Mendax (Writers Forum), & SPIECES PIECES (gong press). His concrete/visual poetry can be found electronically sprinkled on internet. \n \n____ \n \nHope to see you there! Amy King & Didi Menendez \nMiPOesias -- http://www.mipoesias.com MiPOradio -- http://www.miporadio.net/index1.html Reading Series -- \nhttp://miporeadingseries.blogspot.com/ Managing Editor -- http://www.amyking.org/blog",1] ); //--> Erica Kaufman co-curates the belladonna* reading series/small press and is the author of the chapbooks: from the two coat syndrome , the kickboxer suite, and a familiar album (winner of the 2003 New School Chapbook Contest). Her poems have appeared in or are forthcoming in Puppy Flowers, Bombay Gin, The Mississippi Review, Jubilat, Good Foot, CARVE, and elsewhere. Nico Vassilakis lives in Seattle where he is a member of SubText. A father of one Radio. And working on a play about Morton Feldman to be presented in August. Recent chapbooks include Askew (bcc press), The Amputation of L Mendax (Writers Forum), & SPIECES PIECES (gong press). His concrete/visual poetry can be found electronically sprinkled on internet. ____ Hope to see you there! Amy King & Didi Menendez MiPOesias -- http://www.mipoesias.com MiPOradio -- http://www.miporadio.net/index1.html Reading Series -- http://miporeadingseries.blogspot.com/ Managing Editor -- http://www.amyking.org/blog \n \n \n \n \n \n \n\n ",0] ); D(["ce"]); //--> --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 09:17:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kevin thurston Subject: Re: But They're From Out of Town! In-Reply-To: <20060728131458.81086.qmail@web81103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline wait a cotton-pickin minute! "Well, Huth and Vassilakis have travelled a long way" "*STAIN *is a unique arts lounge* *dedicated to local products and talent." On 7/28/06, amy king wrote: > > Well, Huth and Vassilakis have travelled a long way -- and when was the > last time you got to hear Ms. Kaufman read?? > > > Geof Huth, Erica Kaufman, & Nico Vassilakis > Mipo Reading Series (hosted by Amy King) > @ stain bar > Friday, July 28, 7PM > 766 grand street > (L to Grand, 1 block west) > http://www.stainbar.com/ > > *STAIN *is a unique arts lounge* *dedicated to local products and talent. > ____ > > Geof Huth is a writer of textual and visual poetry. He writes frequentl= y > about visual poetry, especially on his weblog, dbqp: visualizing poetics = . > His chapbooks include Analphabet, The Dreams of the Fishwife, ghostlight, > Peristyle, To a Small Stream of Water (or Ditch) , and wreadings. Huth > recently edited &2: an/thology of pwoermds, the first-ever anthology of > one-word poems. His most recent book was a box of pages entitled water > vapour. Next up is the chapbook Out of Water from Paper Kite Press. > > Erica Kaufman co-curates the belladonna* reading series/small press > and is the author of the chapbooks: from the two coat syndrome , the > kickboxer suite, and a familiar album (winner of the 2003 New School > Chapbook Contest). Her poems have appeared in or are forthcoming in Puppy > Flowers, Bombay Gin, The Mississippi Review, Jubilat, Good Foot, CARVE, a= nd > elsewhere.\n > \n > \nNico Vassilakis lives in Seattle where he is a member of SubText. A > father of one Radio. And working on a play about Morton Feldman to be > presented in August. Recent chapbooks include Askew (bcc press), The > Amputation of L Mendax (Writers Forum), & SPIECES PIECES (gong press). Hi= s > concrete/visual poetry can be found electronically sprinkled on internet.= \n > \n____ > \n > \nHope to see you there! > > Amy King & Didi Menendez > \nMiPOesias -- http://www.mipoesias.com > MiPOradio -- http://www.miporadio.net/index1.html > Reading Series -- \nhttp://miporeadingseries.blogspot.com/ > Managing Editor -- http://www.amyking.org/blog",1] ); //--> Erica > Kaufman co-curates the belladonna* reading series/small press and is the > author of the chapbooks: from the two coat syndrome , the kickboxer suite= , > and a familiar album (winner of the 2003 New School Chapbook Contest). He= r > poems have appeared in or are forthcoming in Puppy Flowers, Bombay Gin, T= he > Mississippi Review, Jubilat, Good Foot, CARVE, and elsewhere. > > Nico Vassilakis lives in Seattle where he is a member of SubText. A > father of one Radio. And working on a play about Morton Feldman to be > presented in August. Recent chapbooks include Askew (bcc press), The > Amputation of L Mendax (Writers Forum), & SPIECES PIECES (gong press). Hi= s > concrete/visual poetry can be found electronically sprinkled on internet. > ____ > > Hope to see you there! > > Amy King & Didi Menendez > MiPOesias -- http://www.mipoesias.com > MiPOradio -- http://www.miporadio.net/index1.html > Reading Series -- http://miporeadingseries.blogspot.com/ > Managing Editor -- http://www.amyking.org/blog > \n > \n > \n > \n > \n > \n > \n\n > ",0] ); D(["ce"]); //--> > > > > > --------------------------------- > Groups are talking. We=B4re listening. Check out the handy changes to Yah= oo! > Groups. > --=20 http://fuckinglies.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1969 19:06:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Struggle over Middle East reaches into world LGBT movements In-Reply-To: <200607272342.TAA28349@webmail18.cac.psu.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Whether or not Israel shd be invading Lebanon is an open & complicated question, and every human life is valuable, & what is happening there is heartbreaking. That doesn't mean, however, that Israel is imperialist. Withdrawing the pre-war borders is not going to solve all the problems of dealing w/ people who want to see Israel destroyed. You cd say that war has not helped the Middle East; you could also say that Israel wd have been destroyed by now had it not fought at certain moments of its history. On 7/27/06 7:42 PM, "ALDON L NIELSEN" wrote: > I've actually had the experience of negotiating with somebody who thought= I > should not exist, but that's another story for another day. >=20 > When, exactly, has Israel "given up land"? let alone "more" -- They have > withdrawn from land they occupied in war, following negotiations with the > parties with whom they had been at war. They have recently withdrawn from= Gaza > -- but they have also gone back in when it suited them in response to att= acks > mounted from Gaza. Were they more vulnerable after the withdrawal from = Gaza > than they were before? To speak of giving up land implies that it was th= eirs > to give up. >=20 > The reasoning here is odd in the extreme. It seems to hold that, since p= eople > who don't believe Israel should exist threaten to attack Israel, therefor= e > Israel should annex lands they have occupied in war. It seems to argue t= hat > to > withdraw from occupied territories in itself makes Israel more vulnerable= . > And > it would seem to propose that Israel has the unlimited right to creat "bu= ffer" > zones where and as it chooses for its own protection, which buffer zones > themselves could well require additional territorial buffering if Israel = still > feels threatened. >=20 > As I said to a previous correpondent, you may well feel that by destroyin= g the > infrastructure of Lebanon, creating hundreds of thousands of refugees and > killing hundreds, Israel becomes less vulnerable. Sounds to me more like= the > reasoning that must go on in the heads of Hezbollah, who seem to think th= at > attacking civilians in Israel is good for their cause. Thanks to our > government's wink and nod, we will have time to see if that belief holds = true. > Nobody is going to stop Israel, so we will see if this strategy makes the= m > less > vulnerable in the long run. It certainly doesn't look to me like it's wo= rked > to that effect in the past. >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 17:44:59, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: >=20 >> In a message dated 07/27/06 4:17:36 PM, aln10@PSU.EDU writes: >>=20 >>=20 >>> What is Israel to do? >>>=20 >>> Return to its internationally recognized '67 borders.=A0 Defend itself ag= ainst >=20 >>> any >>> incursions, with the full support of the international community. >>>=20 >>=20 >> To paraphrase Hobbes, the root of both all social contracts and wars is = fear. >> Could someone explain to me how one negotiates with an adversary who ope= nly, >> literally (not implicitly or subject to interpratation) tells you you sh= ould >> not exist. Can you imagine a party giving up more land and making itself= more >> vulnerable, in the face of such a clearly enunciated threat? >>=20 >> Murat >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >=20 > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>= >> >=20 > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > --Emily Dickinson >=20 > Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ >=20 > Aldon L. Nielsen > Kelly Professor of American Literature > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 >=20 > (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 09:59:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Daniel f. Bradley" Subject: Re: But They're From Out of Town! In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit you know what kills me about these things - very few people say what city the performace is in is this New York or what ? i guess if you gotta ask you can't go (good luck Nico!) kevin thurston wrote: wait a cotton-pickin minute! "Well, Huth and Vassilakis have travelled a long way" "*STAIN *is a unique arts lounge* *dedicated to local products and talent." On 7/28/06, amy king wrote: > > Well, Huth and Vassilakis have travelled a long way -- and when was the > last time you got to hear Ms. Kaufman read?? > > > Geof Huth, Erica Kaufman, & Nico Vassilakis > Mipo Reading Series (hosted by Amy King) > @ stain bar > Friday, July 28, 7PM > 766 grand street > (L to Grand, 1 block west) > http://www.stainbar.com/ > > *STAIN *is a unique arts lounge* *dedicated to local products and talent. > ____ > > Geof Huth is a writer of textual and visual poetry. He writes frequently > about visual poetry, especially on his weblog, dbqp: visualizing poetics . > His chapbooks include Analphabet, The Dreams of the Fishwife, ghostlight, > Peristyle, To a Small Stream of Water (or Ditch) , and wreadings. Huth > recently edited &2: an/thology of pwoermds, the first-ever anthology of > one-word poems. His most recent book was a box of pages entitled water > vapour. Next up is the chapbook Out of Water from Paper Kite Press. > > Erica Kaufman co-curates the belladonna* reading series/small press > and is the author of the chapbooks: from the two coat syndrome , the > kickboxer suite, and a familiar album (winner of the 2003 New School > Chapbook Contest). Her poems have appeared in or are forthcoming in Puppy > Flowers, Bombay Gin, The Mississippi Review, Jubilat, Good Foot, CARVE, and > elsewhere.\n > \n > \nNico Vassilakis lives in Seattle where he is a member of SubText. A > father of one Radio. And working on a play about Morton Feldman to be > presented in August. Recent chapbooks include Askew (bcc press), The > Amputation of L Mendax (Writers Forum), & SPIECES PIECES (gong press). His > concrete/visual poetry can be found electronically sprinkled on internet. \n > \n____ > \n > \nHope to see you there! > > Amy King & Didi Menendez > \nMiPOesias -- http://www.mipoesias.com > MiPOradio -- http://www.miporadio.net/index1.html > Reading Series -- \nhttp://miporeadingseries.blogspot.com/ > Managing Editor -- http://www.amyking.org/blog",1] ); //--> Erica > Kaufman co-curates the belladonna* reading series/small press and is the > author of the chapbooks: from the two coat syndrome , the kickboxer suite, > and a familiar album (winner of the 2003 New School Chapbook Contest). Her > poems have appeared in or are forthcoming in Puppy Flowers, Bombay Gin, The > Mississippi Review, Jubilat, Good Foot, CARVE, and elsewhere. > > Nico Vassilakis lives in Seattle where he is a member of SubText. A > father of one Radio. And working on a play about Morton Feldman to be > presented in August. Recent chapbooks include Askew (bcc press), The > Amputation of L Mendax (Writers Forum), & SPIECES PIECES (gong press). His > concrete/visual poetry can be found electronically sprinkled on internet. > ____ > > Hope to see you there! > > Amy King & Didi Menendez > MiPOesias -- http://www.mipoesias.com > MiPOradio -- http://www.miporadio.net/index1.html > Reading Series -- http://miporeadingseries.blogspot.com/ > Managing Editor -- http://www.amyking.org/blog > \n > \n > \n > \n > \n > \n > \n\n > ",0] ); D(["ce"]); //--> > > > > > --------------------------------- > Groups are talking. We´re listening. Check out the handy changes to Yahoo! > Groups. > -- http://fuckinglies.blogspot.com helping to kill your literati star since 2004 http://fhole.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 07:11:44 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adam Fieled Subject: UK cult author Stewart Home on PFS Post Comments: To: "cmccabe@rfh.org.uk" , "js@johnsiddique.co.uk" , "derek@theadamsresidence.co.uk" , "cordite@cordite.org.au" , val@writtenpicture.co.uk, jeffreyethan@att.net, peter@greatworks.org.uk, fourteen_red_circles@yahoo.co.uk, michaelland84@yahoo.com, ediesedgwick@ediesedgwick.biz, cipollinaaaaa@yahoo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Here's what Wikipedia has to say about Stewart Home: "Stewart Home (born 1962) is a British fiction writer, subcultural pamphleteer, underground art historian, and activist. His mother, Julia Callan-Thompson, was a model and hostess who was associated with the radical arts scene in Notting Hill Gate. She knew such people as the writer and situationist Alexander Trocchi. Stewart was put up for adoption soon after his birth. Home is probably best known for his parodistic pulp fictions Pure Mania, Red London, No Pity, Cunt, and Defiant Pose that pastiche the work of 1970s British skinhead pulp novel writer Richard Allen and combine it with pornography, political agit-prop, and historical references to punk rock and avant-garde art. In the 1980s and 1990s, he also wrote a large number of non-fiction pamphlets, magazines, and books. They chiefly reflected the politics of the radical left, punk culture, the occult, the history of Situationism, and other radical left-wing 20th century anti-art avant-garde movements. Often at the focal point of these reflections was Neoism, a subcultural network of which he had been a member, and from which he derived various splinter projects. A constant characteristic of his activism in the 1980s and 1990s was the use of group identities and collective monikers in his work, overt and up-front employment of plagiarism and, occasionally, pranks and publicity stunts." Stewart Home has a mini-manifesto up at PFS Post (http://www.artrecess.blogspot.com). It's sobering, sad, & very relevant to the political climate in the US & the UK. Please check it out. --------------------------------- Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 09:16:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Coffey Subject: in light of the wikipedia content lately MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline and because it's Friday... http://www.theonion.com/content/node/50902 -- http://hyperhypo.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 07:30:15 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Flora Fair Subject: Re: in light of the wikipedia content lately In-Reply-To: <750c78460607280716t5231f643q6c8e71387813b7ef@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks, this made my morning. Dan Coffey wrote: and because it's Friday... http://www.theonion.com/content/node/50902 -- http://hyperhypo.org "A kitten dies every time you send me a chain email." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 11:00:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: Struggle over Middle East reaches into world LGBT movements MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I have never said that Israel should not have fought at certain stages of its history. I do say that establishing permanent settlements on land occupied in war and claiming that those areas are now to be part of the nation is by definition imperialism. I have never said that withdrawing to prewar borders would solve all the problems of the region. I do say that those problems will not be solved if Israel continues to occupy these lands. On Wed, 31 Dec 1969 19:06:47 +0000, Ruth Lepson wrote: > Whether or not Israel shd be invading Lebanon is an open & complicated > question, and every human life is valuable, & what is happening there is > heartbreaking. That doesn't mean, however, that Israel is imperialist. > Withdrawing the pre-war borders is not going to solve all the problems of <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 11:13:12 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kevin thurston Subject: on behalf of amy king, for daniel f bradley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline It's the City of Brooklyn, Bradley! Stop on by and please don't die - I'm not the killing kind. i'm so selfless. -- http://fuckinglies.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 10:13:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: H Arnold Subject: Re: UK cult author Stewart Home on PFS Post In-Reply-To: <20060728141144.35146.qmail@web54501.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed From Stewart Home's blog "The American government is the largest and easily the most dangerous terrorist organization in the world, and one of only a few (the British government is another) with access to weapons of mass destruction." an Israeli friend said that if Israel went to war again it would be "you know, Apoc Now without the flora and the Wagner" Bush is playing the Israelis, as someone observed here ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 11:20:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Daniel f. Bradley" Subject: Re: on behalf of amy king, for daniel f bradley In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit no thanks - that's in teh USA- they love war there kevin thurston wrote: It's the City of Brooklyn, Bradley! Stop on by and please don't die - I'm not the killing kind. i'm so selfless. -- http://fuckinglies.blogspot.com helping to kill your literati star since 2004 http://fhole.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 10:33:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: in light of the wikipedia content lately In-Reply-To: <20060728143015.52558.qmail@web52503.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Jul 28, 2006, at 9:30 AM, Flora Fair wrote: > "A kitten dies every time you send me a chain email." Not to mention every time you masturbate. "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@gmail.com halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 10:40:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: Vipassana Meditation Thought for the Day MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This morning, the first thing I did was to sit for an hour. I have done that regularly for twenty years, and have spent many evenings, days and weeks doing the same. I would like to know myself. It is remarkable that while ordinarily we spend most of our lives studying, contemplating, observing and manipulating the world around us, the structured gaze of the thoughtful mind is so rarely turned inwards. This avoidance must measure some anxiety, reluctance or fear. [...] Sitting helps me overcome my deepest fears. I become freer to live from my heart and to face the consequences, but also to reap the rewards of this authenticity. Much of what I called pain was really loneliness and fear. It passes, dissolves, with that observation. The vibrations of my body are humming the song that can be heard only when dawn and dusk are simultaneous, instantaneous, continuous. I feel that a burst of stern effort is a small price to pay to hear this inner music- fertile music from the heart of life itself. I sit to anchor and organise my life around my heart and mind, and to radiate out to others what I find. Though I shake in strong winds, I return to this basic way of living. The easy, soothing comfort and deep relaxation that accompany intense awareness in stillness, peel my life like an onion to deeper layers of truth, which in turn are scoured and soothed until the next layer opens. I sit to discipline my life by what is clear, simple, self-fulfilling and universal in my heart. There is no end to this job. I have failed to really live many days of my life, but I dive again and again into the plain guidance of self-containment and loving receipt. I sit to find and express simple human love and common decency. --Paul Fleischman, an "acarya" or "full teacher" of Vipassana meditation (Insight Meditation) in the tradition of Sayagyi U Ba Khin, as taught by S. N. Goenka (www.dhamma.org). From his essay "Why I Sit," as found in his book KARMA AND CHAOS: NEW AND COLLECTED ESSAYS ON VIPASSANA MEDITATION. -- __________________________________ http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com ---------------------------------- Gabriel Gudding Department of English Illinois State University Normal, Illinois 61790 309.438.5284 (office) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 11:49:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: the right to exist; recognition thereof MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I do think that the several references (truthful, I hasten to add) to those who deny Israel's right to exist should not occur in a contextual vacuum. What is the Israeli position on the right of Palestinians to exist, as Palestinians? It is, of course, a concept in evolution. There was the infamous formulation of Golda Meir, who held that there simply is no such thing as a Palestinian. For many years the position was that Palestinians had the right to exist as Jordanians, Egyptians, Lebanese -- but certainly not as Palestinians, and certainly not on the lands they had previously lived on. At the present time, it appears to be the position of Israel that Palestinains MIGHT, at some date far in the future to be determined by Israel, have the right to exist on a series of bantustans, with borders declared by Israel itself. Israel will continue to control the flow of tax monies, the flow of water and the flow of people. No Palestinians will be permitted to return to homes they once owned within what will now be the borders of Israel; No Palestinians will be comepensated for their lands, for the orchards or pasturelands Israel has chosen to destroy, for the houses bulldozed by Israel, etc. Israelis will be permitted to live permanently on lands taken in the wars. Is that what is meant by the right to exist? and that's my 2 message quota for the day -- I seem to have inadvertenly returned us to the debate about the relationship between words and the actually existing. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 08:55:48 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Flora Fair Subject: Re: in light of the wikipedia content lately In-Reply-To: <2C257BAE-8342-4152-ACEC-93DE631E05BF@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit But at least that's productive. Halvard Johnson wrote: On Jul 28, 2006, at 9:30 AM, Flora Fair wrote: > "A kitten dies every time you send me a chain email." Not to mention every time you masturbate. "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@gmail.com halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org "A kitten dies every time you send me a chain email." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 10:57:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: Vipassana Meditation Thought for the Day/dbc meditation for day In-Reply-To: <44CA2FE9.6060808@ilstu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed this is what i do among many methods- "If you would create, relax before moldy, wet walls and feel form shaping out of the chaotic patterns" ---Michelangelo >From: Gabriel Gudding >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Vipassana Meditation Thought for the Day >Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 10:40:25 -0500 > >This morning, the first thing I did was to sit for an hour. I have done >that regularly for twenty years, and have spent many evenings, days and >weeks doing the same. > >I would like to know myself. It is remarkable that while ordinarily we >spend most of our lives studying, contemplating, observing and manipulating >the world around us, the structured gaze of the thoughtful mind is so >rarely turned inwards. This avoidance must measure some anxiety, reluctance >or fear. [...] > >Sitting helps me overcome my deepest fears. I become freer to live from my >heart and to face the consequences, but also to reap the rewards of this >authenticity. Much of what I called pain was really loneliness and fear. It >passes, dissolves, with that observation. The vibrations of my body are >humming the song that can be heard only when dawn and dusk are >simultaneous, instantaneous, continuous. I feel that a burst of stern >effort is a small price to pay to hear this inner music- fertile music from >the heart of life itself. > >I sit to anchor and organise my life around my heart and mind, and to >radiate out to others what I find. Though I shake in strong winds, I return >to this basic way of living. The easy, soothing comfort and deep relaxation >that accompany intense awareness in stillness, peel my life like an onion >to deeper layers of truth, which in turn are scoured and soothed until the >next layer opens. I sit to discipline my life by what is clear, simple, >self-fulfilling and universal in my heart. There is no end to this job. I >have failed to really live many days of my life, but I dive again and again >into the plain guidance of self-containment and loving receipt. I sit to >find and express simple human love and common decency. > >--Paul Fleischman, an "acarya" or "full teacher" of Vipassana meditation >(Insight Meditation) in the tradition of Sayagyi U Ba Khin, as taught by S. >N. Goenka (www.dhamma.org). From his essay "Why I Sit," as found in his >book KARMA AND CHAOS: NEW AND COLLECTED ESSAYS ON VIPASSANA MEDITATION. >-- >__________________________________ >http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com >---------------------------------- >Gabriel Gudding >Department of English >Illinois State University >Normal, Illinois 61790 >309.438.5284 (office) _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 10:11:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: Vipassana Meditation Thought: a counter view In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed This morning, the first thing i did was take three No-Doz and wash them down with a glass of Ice Earl Grey Tea. I have done that regularly for ten years. In the evenings days and weeks, I've often done the same, occassionally, or often, amping up my dosage to higher grade stimulants or other narcotics or alcohol. It's remarkable what a racing mind can accomplish when turned outwards at the fiery spectrum of creation, and how rare that certain American mind can be turned from the contemplation of the navel and it's self-centered simulacrum of eastern thought to explore the complexity and overwhelming divine bigness of the universe and complexity of human existence. This avoidance must measure some fundamental self-centeredness, selfishness, or immaturity. Drugs help me overcome my deepest fears. These days i get by on caffeine nicotine alcohol and venlafaxine, with the occasional mammoth dose of over the counter pain killers to keep my migraines at bay. I take my daily regimen and I become freer, looser, and less likely to say things like "live from the heart." I realize that much of what I call pain was truly the fact that I am deeply skeptical of the cultural commodification of bits and pieces of other faiths, poorly understood, and essentialized as part of the wisdom of "noble brown savages" as yet another way that white American liberals make themselves feel better about themselves and their privileged position in the world, rendering themselves neutral, uncritical lumps with streams of nonsense like saying Dawn and Dusk are "simultaneous, instantaneous, continuous." Now I go out into the world, and when I see people who need help, I help them. When I see injustice or racism, I challenge it. When I see some bullshit, I call it. Which is the only way i know of to find love and decency. -- JF Quackenbush, an "iconoclast" or "smartass" from his essay "Why I quit smoking so much pot" On Fri, 28 Jul 2006, David-Baptiste Chirot wrote: > this is what i do among many methods- > > "If you would create, relax before moldy, wet walls and feel form shaping out > of the chaotic patterns" > ---Michelangelo > >> From: Gabriel Gudding >> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: Vipassana Meditation Thought for the Day >> Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 10:40:25 -0500 >> >> This morning, the first thing I did was to sit for an hour. I have done that >> regularly for twenty years, and have spent many evenings, days and weeks >> doing the same. >> >> I would like to know myself. It is remarkable that while ordinarily we spend >> most of our lives studying, contemplating, observing and manipulating the >> world around us, the structured gaze of the thoughtful mind is so rarely >> turned inwards. This avoidance must measure some anxiety, reluctance or >> fear. [...] >> >> Sitting helps me overcome my deepest fears. I become freer to live from my >> heart and to face the consequences, but also to reap the rewards of this >> authenticity. Much of what I called pain was really loneliness and fear. It >> passes, dissolves, with that observation. The vibrations of my body are >> humming the song that can be heard only when dawn and dusk are simultaneous, >> instantaneous, continuous. I feel that a burst of stern effort is a small >> price to pay to hear this inner music- fertile music from the heart of life >> itself. >> >> I sit to anchor and organise my life around my heart and mind, and to >> radiate out to others what I find. Though I shake in strong winds, I return >> to this basic way of living. The easy, soothing comfort and deep relaxation >> that accompany intense awareness in stillness, peel my life like an onion to >> deeper layers of truth, which in turn are scoured and soothed until the next >> layer opens. I sit to discipline my life by what is clear, simple, >> self-fulfilling and universal in my heart. There is no end to this job. I >> have failed to really live many days of my life, but I dive again and again >> into the plain guidance of self-containment and loving receipt. I sit to >> find and express simple human love and common decency. >> >> --Paul Fleischman, an "acarya" or "full teacher" of Vipassana meditation >> (Insight Meditation) in the tradition of Sayagyi U Ba Khin, as taught by S. >> N. Goenka (www.dhamma.org). From his essay "Why I Sit," as found in his >> book KARMA AND CHAOS: NEW AND COLLECTED ESSAYS ON VIPASSANA MEDITATION. >> -- >> __________________________________ >> http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com >> ---------------------------------- >> Gabriel Gudding >> Department of English >> Illinois State University >> Normal, Illinois 61790 >> 309.438.5284 (office) > > _________________________________________________________________ > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 10:17:14 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: Vipassana Meditation Thought for the Day In-Reply-To: <44CA2FE9.6060808@ilstu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thank you so much for putting these thoughts on the listserv today. It so happens that I too practice the same meditation as you do and, because I had long awaited mail at the post office, cut my sitting short. Thus it was good to be reminded of the correct practice. Thankyou. Gabriel Gudding wrote: This morning, the first thing I did was to sit for an hour. I have done that regularly for twenty years, and have spent many evenings, days and weeks doing the same. I would like to know myself. It is remarkable that while ordinarily we spend most of our lives studying, contemplating, observing and manipulating the world around us, the structured gaze of the thoughtful mind is so rarely turned inwards. This avoidance must measure some anxiety, reluctance or fear. [...] Sitting helps me overcome my deepest fears. I become freer to live from my heart and to face the consequences, but also to reap the rewards of this authenticity. Much of what I called pain was really loneliness and fear. It passes, dissolves, with that observation. The vibrations of my body are humming the song that can be heard only when dawn and dusk are simultaneous, instantaneous, continuous. I feel that a burst of stern effort is a small price to pay to hear this inner music- fertile music from the heart of life itself. I sit to anchor and organise my life around my heart and mind, and to radiate out to others what I find. Though I shake in strong winds, I return to this basic way of living. The easy, soothing comfort and deep relaxation that accompany intense awareness in stillness, peel my life like an onion to deeper layers of truth, which in turn are scoured and soothed until the next layer opens. I sit to discipline my life by what is clear, simple, self-fulfilling and universal in my heart. There is no end to this job. I have failed to really live many days of my life, but I dive again and again into the plain guidance of self-containment and loving receipt. I sit to find and express simple human love and common decency. --Paul Fleischman, an "acarya" or "full teacher" of Vipassana meditation (Insight Meditation) in the tradition of Sayagyi U Ba Khin, as taught by S. N. Goenka (www.dhamma.org). From his essay "Why I Sit," as found in his book KARMA AND CHAOS: NEW AND COLLECTED ESSAYS ON VIPASSANA MEDITATION. -- __________________________________ http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com ---------------------------------- Gabriel Gudding Department of English Illinois State University Normal, Illinois 61790 309.438.5284 (office) --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 10:24:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: FW: ara and stan at urartu 5pm sunday MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 Friends, come to our reading before the SMELL Reading, here's the info: =20 =20 =20 Poetry Reading at Urartu Cafe=20 Sunday, July 30 at 5 p.m.=20 Readings by:=20 Atina Hartunian=20 and=20 Stan Apps and Ara Shirinyan=20 reading from their collaborative book:=20 "CLASS WITHOUT PEEP HOLES"=20 Address:=20 119 N Maryland Ave.=20 Glendale, CA 91206=20 Organized by Arena Productions.=20 contact: Akaramouni@aol.com=20 818-395-8227=20 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 10:52:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: This week on Wet Asphalt In-Reply-To: <20060728171714.17452.qmail@web31107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed hi all When you're done with your sitting meditation, depressed as hell about the middle east, and finished promoting your own stuff, go have a look at my stuff I'm promoting now: Recently on Wet Asphalt: "I think Derrida called it Hymen, so it's time to pop your cherries boys." Some musings on binary analysis, money, contemporary literature, and what's to be done about it. "Postmodern what?" A short recommendation for our readers less familiar with poetry that they go out and get a copy of the Norton Anthology of Postmodern Poetry, preferrably by clicking the Wet Asphalt affiliate link. and a two part take on Dante in our weekly column Reading vs. Watching, comparing books to television and movies. This week, it's the Inferno vs. Deadwood and the sparks will fly! all freely available to anyone with an internet connection at: http://www.wetasphalt.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 11:27:22 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Vipassana Meditation Thought for the Day In-Reply-To: <44CA2FE9.6060808@ilstu.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 28-Jul-06, at 8:40 AM, Gabriel Gudding wrote: > This morning, the first thing I did was to sit for an hour. I have > done that regularly for twenty years, and have spent many evenings, > days and weeks doing the same. > > I would like to know myself. Instead of that, I read books. I would like to know something other than myself. > George H. Bowering Servant of Terpsichore ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 14:26:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anna Vitale Subject: Re: Vipassana Meditation Thought for the Day In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline They're not mutually exclusive. You can do both. Anna Vitale On 7/28/06, George Bowering wrote: > > On 28-Jul-06, at 8:40 AM, Gabriel Gudding wrote: > > > This morning, the first thing I did was to sit for an hour. I have > > done that regularly for twenty years, and have spent many evenings, > > days and weeks doing the same. > > > > I would like to know myself. > > Instead of that, I read books. > I would like to know something other than myself. > > > > > George H. Bowering > Servant of Terpsichore > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 15:01:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: **Advertise in Boog City 36** Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit please forward --------------- Advertise in Boog City 36 *Deadline --Fri. Aug. 4-Ad copy to editor --Tues. Aug. 15-Issue to be distributed Email to reserve ad space ASAP We have upped our print run 12.5% and added Greenpoint, Brooklyn to our distribution area, without increasing our advertising rates. We will now have 2,250 copies distributed and available free throughout Manhattan's East Village, and Williamsburg and Greenpoint, Brooklyn. ----- Take advantage of our indie discount ad rate. We are once again offering a 50% discount on our 1/8-page ads, cutting them from $60 to $30. (The discount rate also applies to larger ads.) Advertise your small press's newest publications, your own titles or upcoming readings, or maybe salute an author you feel people should be reading, with a few suggested books to buy. And musical acts, advertise your new albums, indie labels your new releases. (We're also cool with donations, real cool.) Email editor@boogcity.com or call 212-842-BOOG(2664) for more information. thanks, David -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 15:54:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tisa Bryant Subject: The Passing of a Legend: Louise Bennett 1919-2007 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > From Gus John > > The Honourable Dr Louise Bennett Coverley O.M. > > 7 September 1919 - 27 July 2006 > > Miss Lou ded an gaan. Lang liv de Afrikaan Queen! > > Miss Lou passed away at the Scarborough Grace Hospital, Toronto, Canada > on 27 July 2006, having collapsed at her home earlier that morning. > > Her death marks the passing of a legend. Never mind historical icons > such as Alexander Bustamante and Norman Manley, Louise Bennett was the > mother, father and soul restorer of the Jamaican nation. No one had > done more to assist the Jamaican people in understanding themselves and > their uniqueness as a people crafted from the ravages of slavery and > colonialism than Miss Lou. The Honourable Marcus Mosiah Garvey focused > upon the African identity of Jamaican and other African heritage people > in the diaspora and the need for us to reconnect with Africa and > reclaim > our heritage in the Motherland. Miss Lou devoted a lifetime to helping > the nation to understand who it is, where it came from, how where it > came from shaped who it is and how, in the process, ways of > communicating were forged which were unique to Jamaica and the way the > nation experienced and related to its world and to the world outside > itself. > > Louise Bennett was a child prodigy where the Jamaican language was > concerned. Amazingly, while not yet a teenager, she determined that > the > language she and those around her spoke was the language that should be > validated and used as a medium for expressing oneself in writing. She > had experienced that language as the one in which ordinary people gave > meaning to their lives, expressing their needs and wants, their joys > and > their sorrows, their aspirations and their regrets. Yet, the medium of > teaching and instruction in school was not the language of the Jamaican > people but a foreign language which the majority of the nation could > neither speak nor write. > > By the age of 14, she had written her first poem in Jamaican English, > popularly called 'dialect' at the time. Her creative abilities were > apparent even then and in her 20s she won a scholarship to attend the > prestigious Royal Academy of Dramatic Arts (RADA) in London, graduating > as a dramatist, actress and performer. She brought the art of dramatic > expression to her exploration, interpretation and use of the Jamaican > language, validating it as a language long before it was accredited as > such in the 1960s, largely through the work of people like Frederic > Cassidy and Robert Le Page. > > The bibliography in the seminal writings of both these academics, > especially > > Jamaica Talk (Cassidy: 1961) and Dictionary of Jamaican English > (Cassidy > & Le Page: 1967) include references to Louise Bennett's work dating > back > to 1942 when the Gleaner published her Dialect Verses, one of her > earliest published works. > > Miss Lou worked with repertory companies in various parts of England > where West Indian ex-servicemen and students from the islands as well > as > the Windrush generation of migrants would have settled. > > She did more than most to develop an awareness and understanding of > Jamaican folklore, of the sayings, proverbs and philosophies, the > values > and principles of the ordinary working people. Using the medium of > poetry, drama and story telling in what was predominantly an oral > tradition, Miss Lou put the Jamaican people in touch with themselves, > with their wisdom, their irony and their quirkiness. Above all, she > put > them in touch with their inner selves and their connectedness to Africa > by pointing up the fact that the entire society and its culture is > riddled with African retentions. Those retentions could still be seen > today in rites of passage, in religious practices, in music, in the > vocabulary and forms of speech in the Jamaican language, in percussion, > in food, in superstitions. Miss Lou brought it all alive through > drama, > poetry, prose, chants, dance and song, and through her radio and > television shows that were hugely popular with people of all ages in > Jamaican society, shows such as Laugh with Louise, Miss Lou's Views, > The > Lou and Ranny Show and the television show 'Ring Ding'. > > When, in the 1960s and 1970s, children started to arrive in Britain in > increasing numbers from Jamaica to join parents and entered British > schools, a major issue in the assessment of their 'intelligence' and > their ability to cope with the schooling system was their language. > Because they were not seen as having a language in its own right that > was different from English, they were deemed to be speaking and writing > broken English as a variant of 'standard' English and therefore judged > as being poorly equipped to get on in the English schooling system. > Louise Bennett's work was invaluable in that it provided the ammunition > both to counteract those damaging and erroneous assessments and to give > Jamaican speakers a sense of self and a confidence in the language that > they spoke. It also helped to demonstrate that those Jamaican children > and their parents were speaking an entirely different language and that > they were being put at an educational disadvantage and subjected to > damaging stereotyping if that were not recognised. > > Miss Lou became ambassador at large for the Jamaican people, > representing their country and its cultural heritage across the world > and giving permission to those of us involved in song writing, music > making, performance poetry, theatre and teaching, to claim the language > and be assertive in our use and projection of it. As such, she > inspired > and created space for other early pioneers such as Andrew Salkey, Kamau > Brathwaite, and latterly Benjamin Zephaniah and the world renowned > Linton Kwesi Johnson. > > Miss Lou married Eric Winston Coverley in 1954 and was widowed in 2002. > > She was awarded the Order of Jamaica in 1974, the Order of Merit in > 2001, the Institute of Jamaica.s Musgrave Silver and Gold Medals for > distinguished eminence in the field of Arts and Culture and the Norman > Manley Award for Excellence in the field of Arts. She held the > Honorary Degree Of Doctor of Letters from the University of the West > Indies and from York University in Toronto. > > We in education and social and cultural life in Britain and Jamaicans > at > home and in the second diaspora worldwide owe her an enormous debt and > give thanks for her long life and pioneering life's work. > > > > > > Professor Gus John ___________________________________ Good fortune takes preparation _________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 22:18:34 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Re: Struggle over Middle East reaches into world LGBT movements In-Reply-To: <7C256BC7.714E%ruthlepson@rcn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Jul 28, 2006, at 3:31 PM, Ruth Lepson wrote: > Whether or not Israel shd be invading Lebanon is an open & complicated > question, no, it is not. it is simple & straightforward aggression. Israel has =20 exactly as much right to do that than the US has in invading Iraq. Pierre =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism,since it is the merger of state and corporate power." =97 Benito Mussolini =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D Pierre Joris 244 Elm Street Albany NY 12202 home: 518 426 0433 cell: 518 225 7123 office: 518 442 40 85 Paris: 01 43 54 95 13 French cell: 06 75 43 57 10 email: joris@albany.edu http://pierrejoris.com Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 17:05:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Struggle over Middle East reaches into world LGBT movements In-Reply-To: <042A48B9-A3AE-41D3-B23B-45260AEFEAB3@mac.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As much to the point, it's equally stupid. Aldon summed it up nicely. Mark At 04:18 PM 7/28/2006, you wrote: >On Jul 28, 2006, at 3:31 PM, Ruth Lepson wrote: > >>Whether or not Israel shd be invading Lebanon is an open & complicated >>question, > >no, it is not. it is simple & straightforward aggression. Israel has >exactly as much right to do that than the US has in invading Iraq. > >Pierre >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D > "Fascism should more properly >be called corporatism,since it is the >merger of state and corporate power." > =97 Benito Mussolini >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D >Pierre Joris >244 Elm Street >Albany NY 12202 >home: 518 426 0433 >cell: 518 225 7123 >office: 518 442 40 85 >Paris: 01 43 54 95 13 >French cell: 06 75 43 57 10 >email: joris@albany.edu >http://pierrejoris.com >Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 23:15:45 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Subject: Re: in light of the wikipedia content lately MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Flora Fair" > But at least that's productive. Also wrong -- lines 13 ff in the Onion piece, that is, quoting: "At 750 years, the U.S. is by far the world's oldest surviving democracy, and is certainly deserving of our recognition," Wales said. Iceland is still a functioning democracy, and has been since before 1000CE, which puts it at least 250 years ahead of the game. Depends, I suppose, on how you define democracy, but I can't think off-hand of anything that qualifies USAmerica, that Iceland doesn't and didn't have. First. Including too many damn lawyers in at the founding of the state. (Incidentally, where did that 750 years come from? What special happened in 1256?) Robin Hamilton > Halvard Johnson wrote: On Jul 28, 2006, at 9:30 > AM, Flora Fair wrote: > >> "A kitten dies every time you send me a chain email." > > Not to mention every time you masturbate. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 15:17:08 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Paul Catafago Subject: For Ruth Lepson and anyone who cares: A Palestinian/Lebanese poet responds In-Reply-To: <7C256BC7.714E%ruthlepson@rcn.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit My name is Paul Catafago. I am a poet and director of the New York based arts non-profit Movement One: Creative Coalition (www.movementone.org). For the past several days, I have read your posts and decided to respond. I am Palestinian (My father was born in Jaffa in 1911) and Lebanese (Beiruti from my mother's side) so I will tell you that your posts have been hurtful. I have very close relatives who live in Lebanon- including my 84 year old uncle who was displaced by Israel's agression. My uncle is not a member of Hizbollah (the propoganda machine has tried to convince people that all Lebanese who have suffered from Israel's agression are members of Hizbollah). He is in fact a Catholic monk who naturally doesn't like Israel much. I am not anti-semitic. In fact, I am a semite. However, the propoganda machine as well, of course, as the agressive tactics of the state of Israel, all fueled by pathetic and irrational fear sicken me. (ISRAEL IS THE ONLY COUNTRY IN THE MIDDLE EAST WITH NUCLEAR CAPABILITY- AND WHY IS THAT? WASN'T IRAQ INVADED AND EFFECITIVELY DESTROYED BY AMERICA BECAUSE THE U.S. FEARED THEY HAD "WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION" INCLUDING THE TECHNOLOGY TO MAKE NUKES? SO WHY IS IT OK FOR ISRAEL TO HAVE THEM, AND NO OTHER STATE CAN?) There is a double standard here. No matter what reason you can give, no matter what explanation or justification, the fact is Israel operates under and over international norms. And the genius of the propoganda machine is that if anyone ever criticizes Israel, they are deemed "anti-semitic". Your fear that Israel will be destroyed as the safe haven for Jews has made you turn a blind eye on both reality and history. The fact is Israel has the world's fourth largest military and "enjoys" blind support of the US. The fact is, as well, throughout the years, Israel has overseen some of the most horrific acts of injustice in modern times. Have you heard of Sabra and Shatilla? These are two Palestinian refugee camps in Beirut. In 1982, shortly after Israel had invaded Lebanon under the command of Defense Minister Ariel Sharon, the Israelis dummied up documents to show the Lebanese Christian militia, the Phalangists, that the PLO had assasinated the charismatic Lebanese Christian President, Bashir Gemayel. The truth was that Gemayel was killed by Amal, a Syrian backed faction. But by lying to the Phalangists, Israel- specifically Sharon knew it would incite them to do something drastic against the PLO- essentially doing Israel's bidding. So an attack on these two refugee camps was suggested- and on September 12, 1982, the Phalangists began massacres in both the camps. By the end of it, thousands of inncoent Palestinians, HUMAN BEINGS, had been killed, under the watchful eyes of Israeli military leaders, reported to be watching the massacres from adjacent roofs. In the end, all of this doesn't matter, because by this time, after reading your posts, and witnessing your whimpering about being attacked by "progressives and leftists.", you still haven't admitted that Israel has done something wrong. I am not a terrorist. I am not anti-semitic. But I have lived in both Palestine and Lebanon (I heard an Israeli commentator the past few days say that the Lebanese- especially Christians are secretly admiring Israel for trying to take out Hizbollah. I will tell you this is a bold faced lie. I am not commenting on Hizbollah here- but I will say the Lebanese Christians I know (my family is Christian) view the events of the past weeks as unjust unilateral attacks on Lebanon by Israel.) I know what I have experienced of Israel's power. I will refer you here to the writings of my old mentor, the Jewish theologian Marc Ellis, Director of Baylor University's Religious Studies Department, concerning Israel and biblical ethics in regards to Israel's mistreatment of Palestinians. Then there are the the writings of Noam Chomsky- especially his book, "The Fateful Triangle" which outlined how during America's embargo against the apartheid regime of South Africa, the US re-routed funds through Israel and Israel then flipped them over to the racists in Pretoria. Chomsky happens to be Jewish. The fact is that Israel is a state, a legitimate country. So there is no issue here of "recognizing Israel" because Israel exists in every way a nation can. However, Ruth, as a Palestinian and Lebanese, I have a right to exist as well. The big problem is that Israel wants recognition normally as a state like other nations, but then they do things that other countries could never get away with. As a result of the massacres I told you about- Sabra and Shatilla- Ariel Sharon was indicted by an international tribunal in Belgium about ten years ago. The indictment was shrugged off as another evidence of European anti-semitism, and eventually, Sharon rose to poer as Israel's Prime Minister. (How would you feel if you were a Palestinian and the person who had been condemned, by an international tribunal, as the architect of massacres against your people became Prime Minister?) There is philosophy of opression that says that ultimately any occupation, any injustice, will be more detrimental to the oppressor than the ones who were oppressed. What is incredible, though, is that as my people- old grandmothers, children, innocent men, continue to bear things like invasion and occupation and strafe bombing by the state of Israel, the propoganda machine turns it around where it's not just that our suffering at Israeli hands is ignored.The facts and truths are twisted around where we are blamed for our own suffering. By now the media has reported on every detail of the Israelis soldiers who were captured in their war with Hizbollah. But who knows about the at least six hundred Lebanese citizens who have been killed by Israel. The message here is that our life is cheap compared to Israeli life. I will finish with this: for the last twenty years, the great Palestinian poet Mahmoud Darwish, winner of amongst other things a Lannan Award, has been refused entry into the United States. Darwish is a poet. He has never taken up an arm in his life. But Israel has told the US that Darwish should never be allowed into the country because they are afraid that his eloquence will open up American eyes to the truth of what Israel has done. What does it say of a government, a society, when it attempts to silence a poet?????????????????????????????? As a gift, here is a poem by Darwish. The Prison Cell by Mahmoud Darwish, trans. by Ben Bennani It is possible It is possible at least sometimes… It is possible especially now To ride a horse Inside a prison cell And run away…… It is possible for prison walls, To disappear, For the cell to become a distant land Without frontiers: -What did you do with the walls? -I gave them back to the rocks. -And what did you do with the ceiling? -I turned it into a saddle. -And your chain? -I turned it into a pencil. The prison guard got angry. He put an end to the dialogue. He said he didn’t care for poetry, And bolted the door of my cell. He came back to see me In the morning; He shouted at me: -Where did all this water come from? -I brought it from the Nile. -And the trees? -From the orchards of Damascus. -And the music? -From my heartbeat. The prison guard got mad: He put an end to my dialogue. He said he didn’t like my poetry, And bolted the door to my cell. But he returned in the evening: -Where did this moon come from? -From the nights of Baghdad. -And the wine? -From the vineyards of Algiers. -And this freedom? -From the chain you tied me with last night. The prison guard grew so sad…. He begged me to give him back His freedom. Ruth Lepson wrote: Whether or not Israel shd be invading Lebanon is an open & complicated question, and every human life is valuable, & what is happening there is heartbreaking. That doesn't mean, however, that Israel is imperialist. Withdrawing the pre-war borders is not going to solve all the problems of dealing w/ people who want to see Israel destroyed. You cd say that war has not helped the Middle East; you could also say that Israel wd have been destroyed by now had it not fought at certain moments of its history. On 7/27/06 7:42 PM, "ALDON L NIELSEN" wrote: > I've actually had the experience of negotiating with somebody who thought I > should not exist, but that's another story for another day. > > When, exactly, has Israel "given up land"? let alone "more" -- They have > withdrawn from land they occupied in war, following negotiations with the > parties with whom they had been at war. They have recently withdrawn from Gaza > -- but they have also gone back in when it suited them in response to attacks > mounted from Gaza. Were they more vulnerable after the withdrawal from Gaza > than they were before? To speak of giving up land implies that it was theirs > to give up. > > The reasoning here is odd in the extreme. It seems to hold that, since people > who don't believe Israel should exist threaten to attack Israel, therefore > Israel should annex lands they have occupied in war. It seems to argue that > to > withdraw from occupied territories in itself makes Israel more vulnerable. > And > it would seem to propose that Israel has the unlimited right to creat "buffer" > zones where and as it chooses for its own protection, which buffer zones > themselves could well require additional territorial buffering if Israel still > feels threatened. > > As I said to a previous correpondent, you may well feel that by destroying the > infrastructure of Lebanon, creating hundreds of thousands of refugees and > killing hundreds, Israel becomes less vulnerable. Sounds to me more like the > reasoning that must go on in the heads of Hezbollah, who seem to think that > attacking civilians in Israel is good for their cause. Thanks to our > government's wink and nod, we will have time to see if that belief holds true. > Nobody is going to stop Israel, so we will see if this strategy makes them > less > vulnerable in the long run. It certainly doesn't look to me like it's worked > to that effect in the past. > > > > On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 17:44:59, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > >> In a message dated 07/27/06 4:17:36 PM, aln10@PSU.EDU writes: >> >> >>> What is Israel to do? >>> >>> Return to its internationally recognized '67 borders. Defend itself against > >>> any >>> incursions, with the full support of the international community. >>> >> >> To paraphrase Hobbes, the root of both all social contracts and wars is fear. >> Could someone explain to me how one negotiates with an adversary who openly, >> literally (not implicitly or subject to interpratation) tells you you should >> not exist. Can you imagine a party giving up more land and making itself more >> vulnerable, in the face of such a clearly enunciated threat? >> >> Murat >> >> >> > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > --Emily Dickinson > > Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > > Aldon L. Nielsen > Kelly Professor of American Literature > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 15:44:15 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Struggle over Middle East reaches into world LGBT movements In-Reply-To: <042A48B9-A3AE-41D3-B23B-45260AEFEAB3@mac.com> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 28-Jul-06, at 1:18 PM, Pierre Joris wrote: > On Jul 28, 2006, at 3:31 PM, Ruth Lepson wrote: > >> Whether or not Israel shd be invading Lebanon is an open & complicated >> question, > > no, it is not. it is simple & straightforward aggression. Israel has > exactly as much right to do that than the US has in invading Iraq. > > Pierre Well, I have been reading the First Book of the Maccabees, and I say "what's new?" George H. Bowering Fears a symmetrical oyster. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 18:47:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Amanda Earl Subject: Re: Struggle over Middle East reaches into world LGBT movements In-Reply-To: <98A5E9E6-1E8A-11DB-A952-000A95C34F08@sfu.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I have to come out of delirk for a second and say I'm finding Mr. Bowering's comments to contain more than a snoutful of wit. Thank you for that, sir. Sorry to be off topic. Amanda (from Ottawa) who is happy her own oyster is asymmetrical, albeit metrical. At 06:44 PM 28/07/2006, you wrote: >Well, I have been reading the First Book of the Maccabees, >and I say "what's new?" > > > >George H. Bowering >Fears a symmetrical oyster. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 18:48:01 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aryanil Mukherjee Subject: Re: For Ruth Lepson and anyone who cares: A Palestinian/Lebanese poet responds In-Reply-To: A<20060728221708.82600.qmail@web30504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for your bold, wise and frank reaction to Ruth Lepson's e-mail. Lepson's scream "save Israel", quite frankly, didn't seem to reach anywhere. I tend to stay away from poets who believe in religion. I think poets have (or should have) one religion and that's poetry. I didn't know Mahmoud Dwarish was not allowed into the US. It is a shame for all of us here, perhaps a bigger shame on poetry itself. If anyone has seen the brief Dwarish interview from Jean Luc Godard's latest film "Notre Musique", have probably realized the depth, realm and stature of a poet like Dwarish. Amidst bandwagons full of poets crying for freedom, Dwarish is a rarity, he is the Nazim Hikmet of our times. Interestingly, Nazim Hikmet was also denied entry into the US umpteen times. A year before his death in 1960, he told friend Jean Paul Sartre and Pablo Neruda in Paris that he never understood why he was turned down by the US government so many times. Aryanil Mukherjee -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul Catafago Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 6:17 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: For Ruth Lepson and anyone who cares: A Palestinian/Lebanese poet responds My name is Paul Catafago. I am a poet and director of the New York based arts non-profit Movement One: Creative Coalition (www.movementone.org). For the past several days, I have read your posts and decided to respond. I am Palestinian (My father was born in Jaffa in 1911) and Lebanese (Beiruti from my mother's side) so I will tell you that your posts have been hurtful. I have very close relatives who live in Lebanon- including my 84 year old uncle who was displaced by Israel's agression. My uncle is not a member of Hizbollah (the propoganda machine has tried to convince people that all Lebanese who have suffered from Israel's agression are members of Hizbollah). He is in fact a Catholic monk who naturally doesn't like Israel much. I am not anti-semitic. In fact, I am a semite. However, the propoganda machine as well, of course, as the agressive tactics of the state of Israel, all fueled by pathetic and irrational fear sicken me. (ISRAEL IS THE ONLY COUNTRY IN THE MIDDLE EAST WITH NUCLEAR CAPABILITY- AND WHY IS THAT? WASN'T IRAQ INVADED AND EFFECITIVELY DESTROYED BY AMERICA BECAUSE THE U.S. FEARED THEY HAD "WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION" INCLUDING THE TECHNOLOGY TO MAKE NUKES? SO WHY IS IT OK FOR ISRAEL TO HAVE THEM, AND NO OTHER STATE CAN?) There is a double standard here. No matter what reason you can give, no matter what explanation or justification, the fact is Israel operates under and over international norms. And the genius of the propoganda machine is that if anyone ever criticizes Israel, they are deemed "anti-semitic". Your fear that Israel will be destroyed as the safe haven for Jews has made you turn a blind eye on both reality and history. The fact is Israel has the world's fourth largest military and "enjoys" blind support of the US. The fact is, as well, throughout the years, Israel has overseen some of the most horrific acts of injustice in modern times. Have you heard of Sabra and Shatilla? These are two Palestinian refugee camps in Beirut. In 1982, shortly after Israel had invaded Lebanon under the command of Defense Minister Ariel Sharon, the Israelis dummied up documents to show the Lebanese Christian militia, the Phalangists, that the PLO had assasinated the charismatic Lebanese Christian President, Bashir Gemayel. The truth was that Gemayel was killed by Amal, a Syrian backed faction. But by lying to the Phalangists, Israel- specifically Sharon knew it would incite them to do something drastic against the PLO- essentially doing Israel's bidding. So an attack on these two refugee camps was suggested- and on September 12, 1982, the Phalangists began massacres in both the camps. By the end of it, thousands of inncoent Palestinians, HUMAN BEINGS, had been killed, under the watchful eyes of Israeli military leaders, reported to be watching the massacres from adjacent roofs. In the end, all of this doesn't matter, because by this time, after reading your posts, and witnessing your whimpering about being attacked by "progressives and leftists.", you still haven't admitted that Israel has done something wrong. I am not a terrorist. I am not anti-semitic. But I have lived in both Palestine and Lebanon (I heard an Israeli commentator the past few days say that the Lebanese- especially Christians are secretly admiring Israel for trying to take out Hizbollah. I will tell you this is a bold faced lie. I am not commenting on Hizbollah here- but I will say the Lebanese Christians I know (my family is Christian) view the events of the past weeks as unjust unilateral attacks on Lebanon by Israel.) I know what I have experienced of Israel's power. I will refer you here to the writings of my old mentor, the Jewish theologian Marc Ellis, Director of Baylor University's Religious Studies Department, concerning Israel and biblical ethics in regards to Israel's mistreatment of Palestinians. Then there are the the writings of Noam Chomsky- especially his book, "The Fateful Triangle" which outlined how during America's embargo against the apartheid regime of South Africa, the US re-routed funds through Israel and Israel then flipped them over to the racists in Pretoria. Chomsky happens to be Jewish. The fact is that Israel is a state, a legitimate country. So there is no issue here of "recognizing Israel" because Israel exists in every way a nation can. However, Ruth, as a Palestinian and Lebanese, I have a right to exist as well. The big problem is that Israel wants recognition normally as a state like other nations, but then they do things that other countries could never get away with. As a result of the massacres I told you about- Sabra and Shatilla- Ariel Sharon was indicted by an international tribunal in Belgium about ten years ago. The indictment was shrugged off as another evidence of European anti-semitism, and eventually, Sharon rose to poer as Israel's Prime Minister. (How would you feel if you were a Palestinian and the person who had been condemned, by an international tribunal, as the architect of massacres against your people became Prime Minister?) There is philosophy of opression that says that ultimately any occupation, any injustice, will be more detrimental to the oppressor than the ones who were oppressed. What is incredible, though, is that as my people- old grandmothers, children, innocent men, continue to bear things like invasion and occupation and strafe bombing by the state of Israel, the propoganda machine turns it around where it's not just that our suffering at Israeli hands is ignored.The facts and truths are twisted around where we are blamed for our own suffering. By now the media has reported on every detail of the Israelis soldiers who were captured in their war with Hizbollah. But who knows about the at least six hundred Lebanese citizens who have been killed by Israel. The message here is that our life is cheap compared to Israeli life. I will finish with this: for the last twenty years, the great Palestinian poet Mahmoud Darwish, winner of amongst other things a Lannan Award, has been refused entry into the United States. Darwish is a poet. He has never taken up an arm in his life. But Israel has told the US that Darwish should never be allowed into the country because they are afraid that his eloquence will open up American eyes to the truth of what Israel has done. What does it say of a government, a society, when it attempts to silence a poet?????????????????????????????? As a gift, here is a poem by Darwish. The Prison Cell by Mahmoud Darwish, trans. by Ben Bennani It is possible It is possible at least sometimes. It is possible especially now To ride a horse Inside a prison cell And run away.. It is possible for prison walls, To disappear, For the cell to become a distant land Without frontiers: -What did you do with the walls? -I gave them back to the rocks. -And what did you do with the ceiling? -I turned it into a saddle. -And your chain? -I turned it into a pencil. The prison guard got angry. He put an end to the dialogue. He said he didn't care for poetry, And bolted the door of my cell. He came back to see me In the morning; He shouted at me: -Where did all this water come from? -I brought it from the Nile. -And the trees? -From the orchards of Damascus. -And the music? -From my heartbeat. The prison guard got mad: He put an end to my dialogue. He said he didn't like my poetry, And bolted the door to my cell. But he returned in the evening: -Where did this moon come from? -From the nights of Baghdad. -And the wine? -From the vineyards of Algiers. -And this freedom? -From the chain you tied me with last night. The prison guard grew so sad.. He begged me to give him back His freedom. Ruth Lepson wrote: Whether or not Israel shd be invading Lebanon is an open & complicated question, and every human life is valuable, & what is happening there is heartbreaking. That doesn't mean, however, that Israel is imperialist. Withdrawing the pre-war borders is not going to solve all the problems of dealing w/ people who want to see Israel destroyed. You cd say that war has not helped the Middle East; you could also say that Israel wd have been destroyed by now had it not fought at certain moments of its history. On 7/27/06 7:42 PM, "ALDON L NIELSEN" wrote: > I've actually had the experience of negotiating with somebody who thought I > should not exist, but that's another story for another day. > > When, exactly, has Israel "given up land"? let alone "more" -- They have > withdrawn from land they occupied in war, following negotiations with the > parties with whom they had been at war. They have recently withdrawn from Gaza > -- but they have also gone back in when it suited them in response to attacks > mounted from Gaza. Were they more vulnerable after the withdrawal from Gaza > than they were before? To speak of giving up land implies that it was theirs > to give up. > > The reasoning here is odd in the extreme. It seems to hold that, since people > who don't believe Israel should exist threaten to attack Israel, therefore > Israel should annex lands they have occupied in war. It seems to argue that > to > withdraw from occupied territories in itself makes Israel more vulnerable. > And > it would seem to propose that Israel has the unlimited right to creat "buffer" > zones where and as it chooses for its own protection, which buffer zones > themselves could well require additional territorial buffering if Israel still > feels threatened. > > As I said to a previous correpondent, you may well feel that by destroying the > infrastructure of Lebanon, creating hundreds of thousands of refugees and > killing hundreds, Israel becomes less vulnerable. Sounds to me more like the > reasoning that must go on in the heads of Hezbollah, who seem to think that > attacking civilians in Israel is good for their cause. Thanks to our > government's wink and nod, we will have time to see if that belief holds true. > Nobody is going to stop Israel, so we will see if this strategy makes them > less > vulnerable in the long run. It certainly doesn't look to me like it's worked > to that effect in the past. > > > > On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 17:44:59, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > >> In a message dated 07/27/06 4:17:36 PM, aln10@PSU.EDU writes: >> >> >>> What is Israel to do? >>> >>> Return to its internationally recognized '67 borders. Defend itself against > >>> any >>> incursions, with the full support of the international community. >>> >> >> To paraphrase Hobbes, the root of both all social contracts and wars is fear. >> Could someone explain to me how one negotiates with an adversary who openly, >> literally (not implicitly or subject to interpratation) tells you you should >> not exist. Can you imagine a party giving up more land and making itself more >> vulnerable, in the face of such a clearly enunciated threat? >> >> Murat >> >> >> > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > --Emily Dickinson > > Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > > Aldon L. Nielsen > Kelly Professor of American Literature > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 20:13:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Minky Starshine Subject: Re: Vipassana Meditation Thought for the Day In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Zen koans are riddles used by masters to confuse and disorient students as a means of awakening. Example: What is the sound of one hand clapping? -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Anna Vitale Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 2:27 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Vipassana Meditation Thought for the Day They're not mutually exclusive. You can do both. Anna Vitale On 7/28/06, George Bowering wrote: > > On 28-Jul-06, at 8:40 AM, Gabriel Gudding wrote: > > > This morning, the first thing I did was to sit for an hour. I have > > done that regularly for twenty years, and have spent many evenings, > > days and weeks doing the same. > > > > I would like to know myself. > > Instead of that, I read books. > I would like to know something other than myself. > > > > > George H. Bowering > Servant of Terpsichore > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 19:20:53 -0700 Reply-To: Jason Nelson Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Nelson Subject: bird flu redo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Wanted to share my recent recreate of my work Pandemic Rooms http://www.secrettechnology.com/pandemicrooms/ Any ideas, compliments or suggestions for fixing are always more than appreciated... cheers, Jason Nelson ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 00:23:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: Struggle over Middle East reaches into world LGBT movements MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 15:44:15 +0000, George Bowering wrote: > Well, I have been reading the First Book of the Maccabees, > and I say "what's new?" > Well, there's the Second Book of Maccabees -- Trust George to be reading an apocryphal text -- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 00:37:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: The Horror MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain About a week ago, Alan Dershowitz published an execrable editorial in which he suggested that there should be degrees of "civilianality." In essence, his argument held that should you have the bad fortune to live in an area in which terrorists were being harbored, you were by that very fact less innocent than other "civilians" and presumably more eligible for being shot. This is just how far Professor Dershowitz, who has also argued in favor of "torture warrants," has wandered from civilization in this "war of civilizations." How goes it in the real world tonight? One minute, I'm seeing video tape of the civilian victims of an Israeli attack on a Red Cross convoy. The civilian medics, drivers aides and patients (already shot) had been in contact with the IDF before setting out, had agreed upon a route, had been assured they would not be fired upon. They started out on the agreed upon route. The Israeli forces mortared them. A test case of degrees of "civilianality"? Then, a breaking story. Some nut has just shot several people at a Jewish community center in Seattle. As of this writing, one of the victims is dead. The guy who did this probably had an idea similar to Dershowitz's, probably thinks that civilians are somehow complicit in things with which they have nothing to do. Whatever our other disagreements, I hope we can all join in the struggle against this kind of thinking. It's one thing to say that all of us are in some ways responsible for our government's actions. Or the actions of governments supported by our government. But once you start thinking of ordinary citizens as complicit in the horrors wrought by their states, you're well on your way to Bin Laden's cave. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 00:44:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: Vipassana Meditation Thought: a counter view MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit me too got a pain killer inmy pocket as we speak anyway as i mentioned who stuck me on wikipoedia david b in his usual fashion said it wasn't him and he couldn't have been more right as far as meditation i can hardly lift my karma my prahna and oy those 7 shakras really weigh me down i sit to write e-mails ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 00:32:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Fw: Saturday July 29th Art Yard Sale Fund Raiser for Tribes in NYC! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Saturday July 29th at 1:00PM (till 7:30PM) Art Yard Sale: curated by Katherine Arnoldi Buy artwork and support A Gathering of the Tribes! Help pay our rent and get out our next issue of our magazine! Saturday July 29th (1PM-7:30PM) @ Tribes Gallery 285 East 3rd St, 2nd Floor (between Avenues C and D) Lower East Side, NYC F train to 2nd Avenue or 6 train to Bleecker Street Tel: 212.674.8262 or 212.674.3778 E-mail: info@tribes.org Visit: www.tribes.org ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 08:41:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: For Ruth Lepson and anyone who cares: A Palestinian/Lebanese poet responds In-Reply-To: <006101c6b297$e10fe940$a52c7a92@net.plm.eds.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Aryanil-- Of course I have heard about Sabra & Shatilla and do not think most Lebanese are members of Hizbollah. Of course I don't think civilians are implicated in what some members of the community have done to others. And if I have been hurtful I am very sorry. Perhaps I shd not have written during a time when Lebanon is going through such agony & terrible suffering. James Carroll recently had an editorial in the Boston Globe saying that when he went to some dinners w/ friends they got angry if he sd anything pro-Israel, & when he went to dinner w/ other friends they got angry if he sd anything pro-Lebanese. He was looking for something in between, Perhaps that doesn't seem possible to you now. But it seemed to me that w/ the exception of 2-3 people the posts lately were all anti-Israel & I felt the need to say something. Most Israelis want peace. Every day now I speak to my Israelis cousins, who are in the small minority against the Israeli invasion of Lebanon, and I hear abt the rockets hitting Haifa, where one of them lives, & both cousins say they are tired of war & they know Israel has done much that is wrong. Yet they despair of any solutions. They are involved in Peace Now. Yet the son of one is for the invasion bec he is worried that since Iran & Syria back Hizbollah the rockets will continue. Every day in Israel for many years there have been an average of 40 violent actions. Well, as I write all this I imagine some might be thinking it sounds like a lot of liberal crap and sentimental justification. I cd also tell you abt the history of my family but you might say the past treatment and present treatment in Europe, too, of Jews, is beside the point. I still think most of the world gets away w/ a lot more than Israel--look at how many countries of the world treat their own citizens--Iran, Sudan, Russia, etc. Prob I will get a lot of angry mail now. But of course each Lebanese citizen is a human being and I am sorry your country is going through such hell. As for Palestine, the same. Ruth On 7/28/06 6:48 PM, "Aryanil Mukherjee" wrote: > Thanks for your bold, wise and frank reaction to Ruth Lepson's e-mail. > Lepson's scream "save Israel", quite frankly, didn't seem to reach > anywhere. > > I tend to stay away from poets who believe in religion. > I think poets have (or should have) one religion and that's poetry. > > I didn't know Mahmoud Dwarish was not allowed into the US. It is a shame > for all of us here, perhaps a bigger shame on poetry itself. If anyone has > seen the brief Dwarish interview from Jean Luc Godard's latest film "Notre > Musique", have probably realized the depth, realm and stature of a poet like > Dwarish. Amidst bandwagons full of poets crying for freedom, Dwarish is a > rarity, he is the Nazim Hikmet of our times. > > Interestingly, Nazim Hikmet was also denied entry into the US umpteen times. > A year before his death in 1960, he told friend Jean Paul Sartre and Pablo > Neruda in Paris that he never understood why he was turned down by the > US government so many times. > > Aryanil Mukherjee > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > Behalf Of Paul Catafago > Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 6:17 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: For Ruth Lepson and anyone who cares: A Palestinian/Lebanese poet > responds > > My name is Paul Catafago. I am a poet and director of the New York based > arts non-profit Movement One: Creative Coalition (www.movementone.org). For > the past several days, I have read your posts and decided to respond. > I am Palestinian (My father was born in Jaffa in 1911) and Lebanese > (Beiruti from my mother's side) so I will tell you that your posts have been > hurtful. > I have very close relatives who live in Lebanon- including my 84 year old > uncle who was displaced by Israel's agression. My uncle is not a member of > Hizbollah (the propoganda machine has tried to convince people that all > Lebanese who have suffered from Israel's agression are members of > Hizbollah). He is in fact a Catholic monk who naturally doesn't like Israel > much. > I am not anti-semitic. In fact, I am a semite. However, the propoganda > machine as well, of course, as the agressive tactics of the state of Israel, > all fueled by pathetic and irrational fear sicken me. > > (ISRAEL IS THE ONLY COUNTRY IN THE MIDDLE EAST WITH NUCLEAR CAPABILITY- > AND WHY IS THAT? WASN'T IRAQ INVADED AND EFFECITIVELY DESTROYED BY AMERICA > BECAUSE THE U.S. FEARED THEY HAD "WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION" INCLUDING THE > TECHNOLOGY TO MAKE NUKES? SO WHY IS IT OK FOR ISRAEL TO HAVE THEM, AND NO > OTHER STATE CAN?) > > There is a double standard here. No matter what reason you can give, no > matter what explanation or justification, the fact is Israel operates under > and over international norms. > And the genius of the propoganda machine is that if anyone ever criticizes > Israel, they are deemed "anti-semitic". > > Your fear that Israel will be destroyed as the safe haven for Jews has > made you turn a blind eye on both reality and history. The fact is Israel > has the world's fourth largest military and "enjoys" blind support of the > US. The fact is, as well, throughout the years, Israel has overseen some of > the most horrific acts of injustice in modern times. > > Have you heard of Sabra and Shatilla? These are two Palestinian refugee > camps in Beirut. In 1982, shortly after Israel had invaded Lebanon under the > command of Defense Minister Ariel Sharon, the Israelis dummied up documents > to show the Lebanese Christian militia, the Phalangists, that the PLO had > assasinated the charismatic Lebanese Christian President, Bashir Gemayel. > The truth was that Gemayel was killed by Amal, a Syrian backed faction. But > by lying to the Phalangists, Israel- specifically Sharon knew it would > incite them to do something drastic against the PLO- essentially doing > Israel's bidding. > So an attack on these two refugee camps was suggested- and on September > 12, 1982, the Phalangists began massacres in both the camps. By the end of > it, thousands of inncoent Palestinians, HUMAN BEINGS, had been killed, under > the watchful eyes of Israeli military leaders, reported to be watching the > massacres from adjacent roofs. > > In the end, all of this doesn't matter, because by this time, after > reading your posts, and witnessing your whimpering about being attacked by > "progressives and leftists.", you still haven't admitted that Israel has > done something wrong. > > I am not a terrorist. I am not anti-semitic. But I have lived in both > Palestine and Lebanon (I heard an Israeli commentator the past few days say > that the Lebanese- especially Christians are secretly admiring Israel for > trying to take out Hizbollah. I will tell you this is a bold faced lie. I am > not commenting on Hizbollah here- but I will say the Lebanese Christians I > know (my family is Christian) view the events of the past weeks as unjust > unilateral attacks on Lebanon by Israel.) > I know what I have experienced of Israel's power. > I will refer you here to the writings of my old mentor, the Jewish > theologian Marc Ellis, Director of Baylor University's Religious Studies > Department, concerning Israel and biblical ethics in regards to Israel's > mistreatment of Palestinians. > Then there are the the writings of Noam Chomsky- especially his book, "The > Fateful Triangle" which outlined how during America's embargo against the > apartheid regime of South Africa, the US re-routed funds through Israel and > Israel then flipped them over to the racists in Pretoria. Chomsky happens to > be Jewish. > The fact is that Israel is a state, a legitimate country. So there is no > issue here of "recognizing Israel" because Israel exists in every way a > nation can. > However, Ruth, as a Palestinian and Lebanese, I have a right to exist as > well. The big problem is that Israel wants recognition normally as a state > like other nations, but then they do things that other countries could never > get away with. > As a result of the massacres I told you about- Sabra and Shatilla- Ariel > Sharon was indicted by an international tribunal in Belgium about ten years > ago. > The indictment was shrugged off as another evidence of European > anti-semitism, and eventually, Sharon rose to poer as Israel's Prime > Minister. (How would you feel if you were a Palestinian and the person who > had been condemned, by an international tribunal, as the architect of > massacres against your people became Prime Minister?) > > There is philosophy of opression that says that ultimately any occupation, > any injustice, will be more detrimental to the oppressor than the ones who > were oppressed. What is incredible, though, is that as my people- old > grandmothers, children, innocent men, continue to bear things like invasion > and occupation and strafe bombing by the state of Israel, the propoganda > machine turns it around where it's not just that our suffering at Israeli > hands is ignored.The facts and truths are twisted around where we are blamed > for our own suffering. > > By now the media has reported on every detail of the Israelis soldiers who > were captured in their war with Hizbollah. But who knows about the at least > six hundred Lebanese citizens who have been killed by Israel. The message > here is that our life is cheap compared to Israeli life. > > I will finish with this: for the last twenty years, the great Palestinian > poet Mahmoud Darwish, winner of amongst other things a Lannan Award, has > been refused entry into the United States. Darwish is a poet. He has never > taken up an arm in his life. But Israel has told the US that Darwish should > never be allowed into the country because they are afraid that his eloquence > will open up American eyes to the truth of what Israel has done. What does > it say of a government, a society, when it attempts to silence a > poet?????????????????????????????? > > As a gift, here is a poem by Darwish. > > The Prison Cell > by Mahmoud Darwish, trans. by Ben Bennani > > It is possible > It is possible at least sometimes. > It is possible especially now > To ride a horse > Inside a prison cell > And run away.. > > It is possible for prison walls, > To disappear, > For the cell to become a distant land > Without frontiers: > > -What did you do with the walls? > -I gave them back to the rocks. > -And what did you do with the ceiling? > -I turned it into a saddle. > -And your chain? > -I turned it into a pencil. > > The prison guard got angry. > He put an end to the dialogue. > He said he didn't care for poetry, > And bolted the door of my cell. > > He came back to see me > In the morning; > He shouted at me: > > -Where did all this water come from? > -I brought it from the Nile. > -And the trees? > -From the orchards of Damascus. > -And the music? > -From my heartbeat. > > The prison guard got mad: > He put an end to my dialogue. > He said he didn't like my poetry, > And bolted the door to my cell. > > But he returned in the evening: > > -Where did this moon come from? > -From the nights of Baghdad. > -And the wine? > -From the vineyards of Algiers. > -And this freedom? > -From the chain you tied me with last night. > > The prison guard grew so sad.. > He begged me to give him back > His freedom. > > Ruth Lepson wrote: > Whether or not Israel shd be invading Lebanon is an open & complicated > question, and every human life is valuable, & what is happening there is > heartbreaking. That doesn't mean, however, that Israel is imperialist. > Withdrawing the pre-war borders is not going to solve all the problems of > dealing w/ people who want to see Israel destroyed. You cd say that war has > not helped the Middle East; you could also say that Israel wd have been > destroyed by now had it not fought at certain moments of its history. > > > On 7/27/06 7:42 PM, "ALDON L NIELSEN" wrote: > >> I've actually had the experience of negotiating with somebody who thought > I >> should not exist, but that's another story for another day. >> >> When, exactly, has Israel "given up land"? let alone "more" -- They have >> withdrawn from land they occupied in war, following negotiations with the >> parties with whom they had been at war. They have recently withdrawn from > Gaza >> -- but they have also gone back in when it suited them in response to > attacks >> mounted from Gaza. Were they more vulnerable after the withdrawal from > Gaza >> than they were before? To speak of giving up land implies that it was > theirs >> to give up. >> >> The reasoning here is odd in the extreme. It seems to hold that, since > people >> who don't believe Israel should exist threaten to attack Israel, therefore >> Israel should annex lands they have occupied in war. It seems to argue > that >> to >> withdraw from occupied territories in itself makes Israel more vulnerable. >> And >> it would seem to propose that Israel has the unlimited right to creat > "buffer" >> zones where and as it chooses for its own protection, which buffer zones >> themselves could well require additional territorial buffering if Israel > still >> feels threatened. >> >> As I said to a previous correpondent, you may well feel that by destroying > the >> infrastructure of Lebanon, creating hundreds of thousands of refugees and >> killing hundreds, Israel becomes less vulnerable. Sounds to me more like > the >> reasoning that must go on in the heads of Hezbollah, who seem to think > that >> attacking civilians in Israel is good for their cause. Thanks to our >> government's wink and nod, we will have time to see if that belief holds > true. >> Nobody is going to stop Israel, so we will see if this strategy makes them >> less >> vulnerable in the long run. It certainly doesn't look to me like it's > worked >> to that effect in the past. >> >> >> >> On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 17:44:59, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: >> >>> In a message dated 07/27/06 4:17:36 PM, aln10@PSU.EDU writes: >>> >>> >>>> What is Israel to do? >>>> >>>> Return to its internationally recognized '67 borders. Defend itself > against >> >>>> any >>>> incursions, with the full support of the international community. >>>> >>> >>> To paraphrase Hobbes, the root of both all social contracts and wars is > fear. >>> Could someone explain to me how one negotiates with an adversary who > openly, >>> literally (not implicitly or subject to interpratation) tells you you > should >>> not exist. Can you imagine a party giving up more land and making itself > more >>> vulnerable, in the face of such a clearly enunciated threat? >>> >>> Murat >>> >>> >>> >> >> > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." >> --Emily Dickinson >> >> Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ >> >> Aldon L. Nielsen >> Kelly Professor of American Literature >> The Pennsylvania State University >> 116 Burrowes >> University Park, PA 16802-6200 >> >> (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 13:44:44 +0100 Reply-To: wild honey press Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: wild honey press Subject: Re: Vipassana Meditation Thought for the Day MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit And a sweet paradox line from a Maurice Scully poem, circa 70's, "zen like stillness is all the go". Makes me laugh. Randolph Healy PS Also in the 70's, at a party a guy was saying "what is the sound of one hand clapping" no question mark as everyone was supposed to be stunned into silence. When I made a clapping sound with one hand he got _really_ angry. "that's not it!!!" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Minky Starshine" To: Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 1:13 AM Subject: Re: Vipassana Meditation Thought for the Day > Zen koans are riddles used by masters to confuse and disorient students > as a means of awakening. > > Example: > > What is the sound of one hand clapping? > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] > On Behalf Of Anna Vitale > Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 2:27 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Vipassana Meditation Thought for the Day > > They're not mutually exclusive. > > You can do both. > > Anna Vitale > > On 7/28/06, George Bowering wrote: >> >> On 28-Jul-06, at 8:40 AM, Gabriel Gudding wrote: >> >> > This morning, the first thing I did was to sit for an hour. I have >> > done that regularly for twenty years, and have spent many evenings, >> > days and weeks doing the same. >> > >> > I would like to know myself. >> >> Instead of that, I read books. >> I would like to know something other than myself. >> >> >> >> > George H. Bowering >> Servant of Terpsichore >> > > > __________ NOD32 1.1677 (20060724) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 02:56:47 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabrielle Welford Subject: Re: The Horror In-Reply-To: <200607290437.AAA13863@webmail2.cac.psu.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT thank you aldon. this is very sane. gabe On Sat, 29 Jul 2006, ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > About a week ago, Alan Dershowitz published an execrable editorial in which he > suggested that there should be degrees of "civilianality." In essence, his > argument held that should you have the bad fortune to live in an area in which > terrorists were being harbored, you were by that very fact less innocent than > other "civilians" and presumably more eligible for being shot. > > This is just how far Professor Dershowitz, who has also argued in favor of > "torture warrants," has wandered from civilization in this "war of > civilizations." > > How goes it in the real world tonight? > > One minute, I'm seeing video tape of the civilian victims of an Israeli attack > on a Red Cross convoy. The civilian medics, drivers aides and patients > (already shot) had been in contact with the IDF before setting out, had agreed > upon a route, had been assured they would not be fired upon. They started out > on the agreed upon route. The Israeli forces mortared them. > > A test case of degrees of "civilianality"? > > Then, a breaking story. Some nut has just shot several people at a Jewish > community center in Seattle. As of this writing, one of the victims is dead. > > The guy who did this probably had an idea similar to Dershowitz's, probably > thinks that civilians are somehow complicit in things with which they have > nothing to do. > > Whatever our other disagreements, I hope we can all join in the struggle against > this kind of thinking. > > It's one thing to say that all of us are in some ways responsible for our > government's actions. Or the actions of governments supported by our > government. But once you start thinking of ordinary citizens as complicit in > the horrors wrought by their states, you're well on your way to Bin Laden's > cave. > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > --Emily Dickinson > > Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > > Aldon L. Nielsen > Kelly Professor of American Literature > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 > gabrielle welford welford@hawaii.edu Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.595 / Virus Database: 378 - Release Date: 2/25/2004 wilhelm reich anarcho-syndicalism gut/heart/head/earth ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 08:33:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Fwd: Open Letter from American Jews Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" dear ruth, dear aryanil, dear everyone: this is quite painful for all of us. here is a step that some of us at least can take if we want to. it is a petition. although it's sponsored by Jewish Voice for Peace i don't think you have to be Jewish to sign. metta, md >Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 07:38:14 -0400 >From: Alan Sokal >To: Maria Damon >Subject: Open Letter from American Jews > >Dear signers and supporters of the "Open Letter from American Jews": > >In this sad moment for peace in the Middle East, we would like to urge >your urgent support of a petition organized by Jewish Voice for Peace, >which in our view is extremely balanced, fair and rational. >You can sign on-line at >http://www.democracyinaction.org/dia/organizationsORG/jvfp/petition.jsp?petition_KEY=323 > >The full text of the petition is copied below. > >Much useful further information about the current conflict can be found >on the JVfP website at http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/ > > In solidarity, > > Alan Sokal > Bruce Robbins > > >*** TEXT OF JEWISH VOICE FOR PEACE CALL TO ACTION *** > >On July 6, in a full-page ad in The Times of London, 300 British Jews >cried out against the collective punishment of the people of Gaza with >the anguished question, "What Is Israel Doing?" Several weeks later, >as the Middle East sinks deeper into chaos, that question is ever more >urgent. > >Hezbollah's attack on an IDF outpost was a violation of international law. >And after Israel attacked Lebanon, Hezbollah fired missiles at Israeli >cities, killing and injuring civilians. This is not morally acceptable, >whatever the provocation. > >But Israel's response -- an explosion of violence and collective >punishment directed against airports, bridges and populated neighborhoods >of Lebanon -- is an even greater crime. And now Lebanon, like Gaza, >is on the brink of a humanitarian disaster. > >In the face of so much violence and suffering, the United States' vetoes >of UN Security Council resolutions calling for a cease fire are immoral >and irresponsible. > >We call upon U.S. Jews and others to join us in support of Israeli >peace groups who write: "The only way to guarantee a different future >of peace and security is by ending the occupation and establishing a >relationship of equality and respect between Israelis and Palestinians >and between Israelis and the neighboring nations." > >We call upon the U.S. government to use its influence with Israel >to stop the collective punishment of the people of Gaza and Lebanon; >to work with the international community to impose a cease-fire and >prevent any further loss of civilian life; and to work for the >immediate start of direct, good-faith negotiations. > >Israel's ongoing occupation of Palestinian territories and massive >human rights abuses against the Palestinian and Lebanese peoples are >opposed by many Jews in Israel, the U.S., and throughout the world. > >Attacks on civilians will not bring peace, security or justice to >Palestinians, Israelis, or Jews anywhere. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 08:45:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: The Horror In-Reply-To: <200607290437.AAA13863@webmail2.cac.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hmm, I usually start with the assumption that everything and everyone's complicit in everything. Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@gmail.com halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Jul 28, 2006, at 11:37 PM, ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > About a week ago, Alan Dershowitz published an execrable editorial > in which he > suggested that there should be degrees of "civilianality." In > essence, his > argument held that should you have the bad fortune to live in an > area in which > terrorists were being harbored, you were by that very fact less > innocent than > other "civilians" and presumably more eligible for being shot. > > This is just how far Professor Dershowitz, who has also argued in > favor of > "torture warrants," has wandered from civilization in this "war of > civilizations." > > How goes it in the real world tonight? > > One minute, I'm seeing video tape of the civilian victims of an > Israeli attack > on a Red Cross convoy. The civilian medics, drivers aides and > patients > (already shot) had been in contact with the IDF before setting out, > had agreed > upon a route, had been assured they would not be fired upon. They > started out > on the agreed upon route. The Israeli forces mortared them. > > A test case of degrees of "civilianality"? > > Then, a breaking story. Some nut has just shot several people at a > Jewish > community center in Seattle. As of this writing, one of the > victims is dead. > > The guy who did this probably had an idea similar to Dershowitz's, > probably > thinks that civilians are somehow complicit in things with which > they have > nothing to do. > > Whatever our other disagreements, I hope we can all join in the > struggle against > this kind of thinking. > > It's one thing to say that all of us are in some ways responsible > for our > government's actions. Or the actions of governments supported by our > government. But once you start thinking of ordinary citizens as > complicit in > the horrors wrought by their states, you're well on your way to Bin > Laden's > cave. > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > --Emily Dickinson > > Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > > Aldon L. Nielsen > Kelly Professor of American Literature > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 09:57:01 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aryanil Mukherjee Subject: Re: For Ruth Lepson and anyone who cares: A Palestinian/Lebanese poet responds MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ruth You probably should have addressed Paul Catafago, although I hear you fine. I don't know enough about the crisis in the mid-east. I am not a Lebanese, not Palestinian, not Israeli, not American, not Christian, Arab, Muslim or Jew. I don't even write anti-war poetry as most of it is usually bad poetry, although certain times, like these, demand that we write some bad poetry. Wars are omnipotent, have always been, and poets and artists are a kind that would naturally oppose it - that is most obvious. But what disturbs me now is that every single warfare we see or hear about today, even civil wars, have religious enmity at the core. Probably because of the cold war, the world was more stable and we couldn't see the backward journey (religious wars) we were making deep inside ourselves. Thus the word "religion" scares me to death. BTW, I was born Hindu, but have lived "poetry". Unless you have a religious or a national reason, it is hard to sympathize with the more armed, the more aggressive, the more afflicting.... Someone in this egroup wrote at the beginning of the Iraq war that "language is always the first casualty during wars". The word "enemy", for instance, seems to have become permanently null and void. The enemy is now called "terrorist", "insurgent" etc. Altering language that way reinforces the justification for aggression. Of course this has got more to do with the US public media than Israel. Aryanil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ruth Lepson" To: Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 8:41 AM Subject: Re: For Ruth Lepson and anyone who cares: A Palestinian/Lebanese poet responds > Aryanil-- > > Of course I have heard about Sabra & Shatilla and do not think most > Lebanese > are members of Hizbollah. Of course I don't think civilians are implicated > in what some members of the community have done to others. And if I have > been hurtful I am very sorry. Perhaps I shd not have written during a time > when Lebanon is going through such agony & terrible suffering. > > James Carroll recently had an editorial in the Boston Globe saying that > when > he went to some dinners w/ friends they got angry if he sd anything > pro-Israel, & when he went to dinner w/ other friends they got angry if > he > sd anything pro-Lebanese. He was looking for something in between, Perhaps > that doesn't seem possible to you now. But it seemed to me that w/ the > exception of 2-3 people the posts lately were all anti-Israel & I felt the > need to say something. Most Israelis want peace. > > Every day now I speak to my Israelis cousins, who are in the small > minority > against the Israeli invasion of Lebanon, and I hear abt the rockets > hitting > Haifa, where one of them lives, & both cousins say they are tired of war & > they know Israel has done much that is wrong. Yet they despair of any > solutions. They are involved in Peace Now. Yet the son of one is for the > invasion bec he is worried that since Iran & Syria back Hizbollah the > rockets will continue. Every day in Israel for many years there have been > an > average of 40 violent actions. > > Well, as I write all this I imagine some might be thinking it sounds like > a > lot of liberal crap and sentimental justification. I cd also tell you abt > the history of my family but you might say the past treatment and present > treatment in Europe, too, of Jews, is beside the point. > > I still think most of the world gets away w/ a lot more than Israel--look > at > how many countries of the world treat their own citizens--Iran, Sudan, > Russia, etc. > > Prob I will get a lot of angry mail now. But of course each Lebanese > citizen > is a human being and I am sorry your country is going through such hell. > As > for Palestine, the same. > > Ruth > > > On 7/28/06 6:48 PM, "Aryanil Mukherjee" wrote: > >> Thanks for your bold, wise and frank reaction to Ruth Lepson's e-mail. >> Lepson's scream "save Israel", quite frankly, didn't seem to reach >> anywhere. >> >> I tend to stay away from poets who believe in religion. >> I think poets have (or should have) one religion and that's poetry. >> >> I didn't know Mahmoud Dwarish was not allowed into the US. It is a shame >> for all of us here, perhaps a bigger shame on poetry itself. If anyone >> has >> seen the brief Dwarish interview from Jean Luc Godard's latest film >> "Notre >> Musique", have probably realized the depth, realm and stature of a poet >> like >> Dwarish. Amidst bandwagons full of poets crying for freedom, Dwarish is a >> rarity, he is the Nazim Hikmet of our times. >> >> Interestingly, Nazim Hikmet was also denied entry into the US umpteen >> times. >> A year before his death in 1960, he told friend Jean Paul Sartre and >> Pablo >> Neruda in Paris that he never understood why he was turned down by the >> US government so many times. >> >> Aryanil Mukherjee >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] >> On >> Behalf Of Paul Catafago >> Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 6:17 PM >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: For Ruth Lepson and anyone who cares: A Palestinian/Lebanese >> poet >> responds >> >> My name is Paul Catafago. I am a poet and director of the New York based >> arts non-profit Movement One: Creative Coalition (www.movementone.org). >> For >> the past several days, I have read your posts and decided to respond. >> I am Palestinian (My father was born in Jaffa in 1911) and Lebanese >> (Beiruti from my mother's side) so I will tell you that your posts have >> been >> hurtful. >> I have very close relatives who live in Lebanon- including my 84 year >> old >> uncle who was displaced by Israel's agression. My uncle is not a member >> of >> Hizbollah (the propoganda machine has tried to convince people that all >> Lebanese who have suffered from Israel's agression are members of >> Hizbollah). He is in fact a Catholic monk who naturally doesn't like >> Israel >> much. >> I am not anti-semitic. In fact, I am a semite. However, the propoganda >> machine as well, of course, as the agressive tactics of the state of >> Israel, >> all fueled by pathetic and irrational fear sicken me. >> >> (ISRAEL IS THE ONLY COUNTRY IN THE MIDDLE EAST WITH NUCLEAR CAPABILITY- >> AND WHY IS THAT? WASN'T IRAQ INVADED AND EFFECITIVELY DESTROYED BY >> AMERICA >> BECAUSE THE U.S. FEARED THEY HAD "WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION" INCLUDING >> THE >> TECHNOLOGY TO MAKE NUKES? SO WHY IS IT OK FOR ISRAEL TO HAVE THEM, AND NO >> OTHER STATE CAN?) >> >> There is a double standard here. No matter what reason you can give, no >> matter what explanation or justification, the fact is Israel operates >> under >> and over international norms. >> And the genius of the propoganda machine is that if anyone ever >> criticizes >> Israel, they are deemed "anti-semitic". >> >> Your fear that Israel will be destroyed as the safe haven for Jews has >> made you turn a blind eye on both reality and history. The fact is Israel >> has the world's fourth largest military and "enjoys" blind support of the >> US. The fact is, as well, throughout the years, Israel has overseen some >> of >> the most horrific acts of injustice in modern times. >> >> Have you heard of Sabra and Shatilla? These are two Palestinian refugee >> camps in Beirut. In 1982, shortly after Israel had invaded Lebanon under >> the >> command of Defense Minister Ariel Sharon, the Israelis dummied up >> documents >> to show the Lebanese Christian militia, the Phalangists, that the PLO had >> assasinated the charismatic Lebanese Christian President, Bashir Gemayel. >> The truth was that Gemayel was killed by Amal, a Syrian backed faction. >> But >> by lying to the Phalangists, Israel- specifically Sharon knew it would >> incite them to do something drastic against the PLO- essentially doing >> Israel's bidding. >> So an attack on these two refugee camps was suggested- and on September >> 12, 1982, the Phalangists began massacres in both the camps. By the end >> of >> it, thousands of inncoent Palestinians, HUMAN BEINGS, had been killed, >> under >> the watchful eyes of Israeli military leaders, reported to be watching >> the >> massacres from adjacent roofs. >> >> In the end, all of this doesn't matter, because by this time, after >> reading your posts, and witnessing your whimpering about being attacked >> by >> "progressives and leftists.", you still haven't admitted that Israel has >> done something wrong. >> >> I am not a terrorist. I am not anti-semitic. But I have lived in both >> Palestine and Lebanon (I heard an Israeli commentator the past few days >> say >> that the Lebanese- especially Christians are secretly admiring Israel for >> trying to take out Hizbollah. I will tell you this is a bold faced lie. I >> am >> not commenting on Hizbollah here- but I will say the Lebanese Christians >> I >> know (my family is Christian) view the events of the past weeks as unjust >> unilateral attacks on Lebanon by Israel.) >> I know what I have experienced of Israel's power. >> I will refer you here to the writings of my old mentor, the Jewish >> theologian Marc Ellis, Director of Baylor University's Religious Studies >> Department, concerning Israel and biblical ethics in regards to Israel's >> mistreatment of Palestinians. >> Then there are the the writings of Noam Chomsky- especially his book, >> "The >> Fateful Triangle" which outlined how during America's embargo against the >> apartheid regime of South Africa, the US re-routed funds through Israel >> and >> Israel then flipped them over to the racists in Pretoria. Chomsky happens >> to >> be Jewish. >> The fact is that Israel is a state, a legitimate country. So there is >> no >> issue here of "recognizing Israel" because Israel exists in every way a >> nation can. >> However, Ruth, as a Palestinian and Lebanese, I have a right to exist >> as >> well. The big problem is that Israel wants recognition normally as a >> state >> like other nations, but then they do things that other countries could >> never >> get away with. >> As a result of the massacres I told you about- Sabra and Shatilla- >> Ariel >> Sharon was indicted by an international tribunal in Belgium about ten >> years >> ago. >> The indictment was shrugged off as another evidence of European >> anti-semitism, and eventually, Sharon rose to poer as Israel's Prime >> Minister. (How would you feel if you were a Palestinian and the person >> who >> had been condemned, by an international tribunal, as the architect of >> massacres against your people became Prime Minister?) >> >> There is philosophy of opression that says that ultimately any >> occupation, >> any injustice, will be more detrimental to the oppressor than the ones >> who >> were oppressed. What is incredible, though, is that as my people- old >> grandmothers, children, innocent men, continue to bear things like >> invasion >> and occupation and strafe bombing by the state of Israel, the propoganda >> machine turns it around where it's not just that our suffering at Israeli >> hands is ignored.The facts and truths are twisted around where we are >> blamed >> for our own suffering. >> >> By now the media has reported on every detail of the Israelis soldiers >> who >> were captured in their war with Hizbollah. But who knows about the at >> least >> six hundred Lebanese citizens who have been killed by Israel. The message >> here is that our life is cheap compared to Israeli life. >> >> I will finish with this: for the last twenty years, the great >> Palestinian >> poet Mahmoud Darwish, winner of amongst other things a Lannan Award, has >> been refused entry into the United States. Darwish is a poet. He has >> never >> taken up an arm in his life. But Israel has told the US that Darwish >> should >> never be allowed into the country because they are afraid that his >> eloquence >> will open up American eyes to the truth of what Israel has done. What >> does >> it say of a government, a society, when it attempts to silence a >> poet?????????????????????????????? >> >> As a gift, here is a poem by Darwish. >> >> The Prison Cell >> by Mahmoud Darwish, trans. by Ben Bennani >> >> It is possible >> It is possible at least sometimes. >> It is possible especially now >> To ride a horse >> Inside a prison cell >> And run away.. >> >> It is possible for prison walls, >> To disappear, >> For the cell to become a distant land >> Without frontiers: >> >> -What did you do with the walls? >> -I gave them back to the rocks. >> -And what did you do with the ceiling? >> -I turned it into a saddle. >> -And your chain? >> -I turned it into a pencil. >> >> The prison guard got angry. >> He put an end to the dialogue. >> He said he didn't care for poetry, >> And bolted the door of my cell. >> >> He came back to see me >> In the morning; >> He shouted at me: >> >> -Where did all this water come from? >> -I brought it from the Nile. >> -And the trees? >> -From the orchards of Damascus. >> -And the music? >> -From my heartbeat. >> >> The prison guard got mad: >> He put an end to my dialogue. >> He said he didn't like my poetry, >> And bolted the door to my cell. >> >> But he returned in the evening: >> >> -Where did this moon come from? >> -From the nights of Baghdad. >> -And the wine? >> -From the vineyards of Algiers. >> -And this freedom? >> -From the chain you tied me with last night. >> >> The prison guard grew so sad.. >> He begged me to give him back >> His freedom. >> >> Ruth Lepson wrote: >> Whether or not Israel shd be invading Lebanon is an open & complicated >> question, and every human life is valuable, & what is happening there is >> heartbreaking. That doesn't mean, however, that Israel is imperialist. >> Withdrawing the pre-war borders is not going to solve all the problems of >> dealing w/ people who want to see Israel destroyed. You cd say that war >> has >> not helped the Middle East; you could also say that Israel wd have been >> destroyed by now had it not fought at certain moments of its history. >> >> >> On 7/27/06 7:42 PM, "ALDON L NIELSEN" wrote: >> >>> I've actually had the experience of negotiating with somebody who >>> thought >> I >>> should not exist, but that's another story for another day. >>> >>> When, exactly, has Israel "given up land"? let alone "more" -- They have >>> withdrawn from land they occupied in war, following negotiations with >>> the >>> parties with whom they had been at war. They have recently withdrawn >>> from >> Gaza >>> -- but they have also gone back in when it suited them in response to >> attacks >>> mounted from Gaza. Were they more vulnerable after the withdrawal from >> Gaza >>> than they were before? To speak of giving up land implies that it was >> theirs >>> to give up. >>> >>> The reasoning here is odd in the extreme. It seems to hold that, since >> people >>> who don't believe Israel should exist threaten to attack Israel, >>> therefore >>> Israel should annex lands they have occupied in war. It seems to argue >> that >>> to >>> withdraw from occupied territories in itself makes Israel more >>> vulnerable. >>> And >>> it would seem to propose that Israel has the unlimited right to creat >> "buffer" >>> zones where and as it chooses for its own protection, which buffer zones >>> themselves could well require additional territorial buffering if Israel >> still >>> feels threatened. >>> >>> As I said to a previous correpondent, you may well feel that by >>> destroying >> the >>> infrastructure of Lebanon, creating hundreds of thousands of refugees >>> and >>> killing hundreds, Israel becomes less vulnerable. Sounds to me more like >> the >>> reasoning that must go on in the heads of Hezbollah, who seem to think >> that >>> attacking civilians in Israel is good for their cause. Thanks to our >>> government's wink and nod, we will have time to see if that belief holds >> true. >>> Nobody is going to stop Israel, so we will see if this strategy makes >>> them >>> less >>> vulnerable in the long run. It certainly doesn't look to me like it's >> worked >>> to that effect in the past. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 17:44:59, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: >>> >>>> In a message dated 07/27/06 4:17:36 PM, aln10@PSU.EDU writes: >>>> >>>> >>>>> What is Israel to do? >>>>> >>>>> Return to its internationally recognized '67 borders. Defend itself >> against >>> >>>>> any >>>>> incursions, with the full support of the international community. >>>>> >>>> >>>> To paraphrase Hobbes, the root of both all social contracts and wars is >> fear. >>>> Could someone explain to me how one negotiates with an adversary who >> openly, >>>> literally (not implicitly or subject to interpratation) tells you you >> should >>>> not exist. Can you imagine a party giving up more land and making >>>> itself >> more >>>> vulnerable, in the face of such a clearly enunciated threat? >>>> >>>> Murat >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." >>> --Emily Dickinson >>> >>> Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ >>> >>> Aldon L. Nielsen >>> Kelly Professor of American Literature >>> The Pennsylvania State University >>> 116 Burrowes >>> University Park, PA 16802-6200 >>> >>> (814) 865-0091 > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/403 - Release Date: 7/28/2006 > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 10:06:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aryanil Mukherjee Subject: Re: Open Letter from American Jews MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit maria hoping it makes a little difference to innocent jewish and lebanese citizens i'll do my needful. aryanil ----- Original Message - ---- From: "Maria Damon" To: Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 9:33 AM Subject: Fwd: Open Letter from American Jews > dear ruth, dear aryanil, dear everyone: > this is quite painful for all of us. here is a step that some of us at > least can take if we want to. it is a petition. although it's sponsored > by Jewish Voice for Peace i don't think you have to be Jewish to sign. > > metta, > md > > >>Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 07:38:14 -0400 >>From: Alan Sokal >>To: Maria Damon >>Subject: Open Letter from American Jews >> >>Dear signers and supporters of the "Open Letter from American Jews": >> >>In this sad moment for peace in the Middle East, we would like to urge >>your urgent support of a petition organized by Jewish Voice for Peace, >>which in our view is extremely balanced, fair and rational. >>You can sign on-line at >>http://www.democracyinaction.org/dia/organizationsORG/jvfp/petition.jsp?petition_KEY=323 >> >>The full text of the petition is copied below. >> >>Much useful further information about the current conflict can be found >>on the JVfP website at http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/ >> >> In solidarity, >> >> Alan Sokal >> Bruce Robbins >> >> >>*** TEXT OF JEWISH VOICE FOR PEACE CALL TO ACTION *** >> >>On July 6, in a full-page ad in The Times of London, 300 British Jews >>cried out against the collective punishment of the people of Gaza with >>the anguished question, "What Is Israel Doing?" Several weeks later, >>as the Middle East sinks deeper into chaos, that question is ever more >>urgent. >> >>Hezbollah's attack on an IDF outpost was a violation of international law. >>And after Israel attacked Lebanon, Hezbollah fired missiles at Israeli >>cities, killing and injuring civilians. This is not morally acceptable, >>whatever the provocation. >> >>But Israel's response -- an explosion of violence and collective >>punishment directed against airports, bridges and populated neighborhoods >>of Lebanon -- is an even greater crime. And now Lebanon, like Gaza, >>is on the brink of a humanitarian disaster. >> >>In the face of so much violence and suffering, the United States' vetoes >>of UN Security Council resolutions calling for a cease fire are immoral >>and irresponsible. >> >>We call upon U.S. Jews and others to join us in support of Israeli >>peace groups who write: "The only way to guarantee a different future >>of peace and security is by ending the occupation and establishing a >>relationship of equality and respect between Israelis and Palestinians >>and between Israelis and the neighboring nations." >> >>We call upon the U.S. government to use its influence with Israel >>to stop the collective punishment of the people of Gaza and Lebanon; >>to work with the international community to impose a cease-fire and >>prevent any further loss of civilian life; and to work for the >>immediate start of direct, good-faith negotiations. >> >>Israel's ongoing occupation of Palestinian territories and massive >>human rights abuses against the Palestinian and Lebanese peoples are >>opposed by many Jews in Israel, the U.S., and throughout the world. >> >>Attacks on civilians will not bring peace, security or justice to >>Palestinians, Israelis, or Jews anywhere. > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/403 - Release Date: 7/28/2006 > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 09:09:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: in breaking literary news... Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed The old man and the six-toed cats: Hemingway home in dispute Saturday, July 29, 2006; Posted: 7:18 a.m. EDT (11:18 GMT) Key West (Florida) MIAMI, Florida (AP) -- The caretakers of Ernest Hemingway's Key West home want a federal judge to intervene in their dispute with the U.S. Department of Agriculture over the six-toed cats that roam the property. More than 50 descendants of a multi-toed cat the novelist received as a gift in 1935 wander the grounds of the home, where Hemingway lived for more than 10 years and wrote "A Farewell to Arms" and "To Have and Have Not." The Ernest Hemingway Home and Museum disputes the USDA's claim that it is an "exhibitor" of cats and needs to have a USDA Animal Welfare License, according to a complaint filed Monday in U.S. District Court in Miami. "What they're comparing the Hemingway house to is a circus or a zoo because there are cats on the premises," Cara Higgins, the home's attorney, said Friday. "This is not a traveling circus. These cats have been on the premises forever." A message left Friday afternoon at the Washington, D.C., office of the USDA's Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service was not immediately returned. The agency has repeatedly denied a license for the Hemingway home under the Animal Welfare Act, which the home contends governs animals in commerce. The USDA has threatened to charge the home $200 per cat per day for violating the act, according to the complaint. "We're asking the judge to let us know whether this act applies to the cats, and if so why that is if the animals are not in commerce," Higgins said. "If it has something to do with the number of cats, how many do we have to get rid of to be in compliance with the act?" Agency inspectors who have repeatedly visited the property since October 2003 have never indicated any concerns about the welfare of the cats. But they have said a 6-foot-high, brick-and-mortar fence Hemingway built around the property in 1937 did not sufficiently contain the 53 cats, which should be caged, according to the complaint. Caging the cats, some of which are 19 years old or older, would traumatize them, and the home's designation as a National Historic Site prohibits extending the height of the fence, the complaint said. The tourist site complies with city and county ordinances, Higgins said. "We don't know why the USDA got involved in this," she said. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 09:19:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: H Arnold Subject: Re: Vipassana Meditation Thought for the Day In-Reply-To: <031d01c6b30c$cb115cd0$0201a8c0@hppavilion> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed --this thread reminds me of Barbara McClintock's meditations on corn “I start with the seedling. I don’t feel I really know the story if I don’t watch the plant all the way along. So I know every plant in the field. I know them intimately, and I find it a great pleasure to know them.” … “I have learned so much about the corn plant that when I see things, I can interpret [them] right away.” --from _A Feeling for the Organism_ -h >From: wild honey press >Reply-To: wild honey press >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Vipassana Meditation Thought for the Day >Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 13:44:44 +0100 > >And a sweet paradox line from a Maurice Scully poem, circa 70's, > >"zen like stillness is all the go". > >Makes me laugh. > >Randolph Healy > >PS Also in the 70's, at a party a guy was saying "what is the sound of one >hand clapping" no question mark as everyone was supposed to be stunned into >silence. When I made a clapping sound with one hand he got _really_ angry. >"that's not it!!!" > > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Minky Starshine" >To: >Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 1:13 AM >Subject: Re: Vipassana Meditation Thought for the Day > > >>Zen koans are riddles used by masters to confuse and disorient students >>as a means of awakening. >> >>Example: >> >>What is the sound of one hand clapping? >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] >>On Behalf Of Anna Vitale >>Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 2:27 PM >>To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>Subject: Re: Vipassana Meditation Thought for the Day >> >>They're not mutually exclusive. >> >>You can do both. >> >>Anna Vitale >> >>On 7/28/06, George Bowering wrote: >>> >>>On 28-Jul-06, at 8:40 AM, Gabriel Gudding wrote: >>> >>> > This morning, the first thing I did was to sit for an hour. I have >>> > done that regularly for twenty years, and have spent many evenings, >>> > days and weeks doing the same. >>> > >>> > I would like to know myself. >>> >>>Instead of that, I read books. >>>I would like to know something other than myself. >>> >>> >>> >>> > George H. Bowering >>>Servant of Terpsichore >>> >> >> >>__________ NOD32 1.1677 (20060724) Information __________ >> >>This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. >>http://www.eset.com >> >> ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 10:24:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Vipassana Meditation Thought for the Day In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable And then she eats them. At 10:19 AM 7/29/2006, you wrote: >--this thread reminds me of Barbara McClintock's meditations on corn > >=93I start with the seedling. I don=92t feel I=20 >really know the story if I don=92t watch the plant=20 >all the way along. So I know every plant in the=20 >field. I know them intimately, and I find it a=20 >great pleasure to know them.=94 =85 =93I have learned=20 >so much about the corn plant that when I see=20 >things, I can interpret [them] right away.=94 > >--from _A Feeling for the Organism_ > > >-h > >>From: wild honey press >>Reply-To: wild honey press >>To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>Subject: Re: Vipassana Meditation Thought for the Day >>Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 13:44:44 +0100 >> >>And a sweet paradox line from a Maurice Scully poem, circa 70's, >> >>"zen like stillness is all the go". >> >>Makes me laugh. >> >>Randolph Healy >> >>PS Also in the 70's, at a party a guy was=20 >>saying "what is the sound of one hand clapping"=20 >>no question mark as everyone was supposed to be=20 >>stunned into silence. When I made a clapping=20 >>sound with one hand he got _really_ angry. "that's not it!!!" >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Minky Starshine" >>To: >>Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 1:13 AM >>Subject: Re: Vipassana Meditation Thought for the Day >> >> >>>Zen koans are riddles used by masters to confuse and disorient students >>>as a means of awakening. >>> >>>Example: >>> >>>What is the sound of one hand clapping? >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] >>>On Behalf Of Anna Vitale >>>Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 2:27 PM >>>To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>>Subject: Re: Vipassana Meditation Thought for the Day >>> >>>They're not mutually exclusive. >>> >>>You can do both. >>> >>>Anna Vitale >>> >>>On 7/28/06, George Bowering wrote: >>>> >>>>On 28-Jul-06, at 8:40 AM, Gabriel Gudding wrote: >>>> >>>> > This morning, the first thing I did was to sit for an hour. I have >>>> > done that regularly for twenty years, and have spent many evenings, >>>> > days and weeks doing the same. >>>> > >>>> > I would like to know myself. >>>> >>>>Instead of that, I read books. >>>>I would like to know something other than myself. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> > George H. Bowering >>>>Servant of Terpsichore >>> >>> >>>__________ NOD32 1.1677 (20060724) Information __________ >>> >>>This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. >>>http://www.eset.com >>> ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 10:32:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Open Letter from American Jews In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit thank you, maria On 7/29/06 9:33 AM, "Maria Damon" wrote: > dear ruth, dear aryanil, dear everyone: > this is quite painful for all of us. here is a step that some of us > at least can take if we want to. it is a petition. although it's > sponsored by Jewish Voice for Peace i don't think you have to be > Jewish to sign. > > metta, > md > > >> Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 07:38:14 -0400 >> From: Alan Sokal >> To: Maria Damon >> Subject: Open Letter from American Jews >> >> Dear signers and supporters of the "Open Letter from American Jews": >> >> In this sad moment for peace in the Middle East, we would like to urge >> your urgent support of a petition organized by Jewish Voice for Peace, >> which in our view is extremely balanced, fair and rational. >> You can sign on-line at >> http://www.democracyinaction.org/dia/organizationsORG/jvfp/petition.jsp?petit >> ion_KEY=323 >> >> The full text of the petition is copied below. >> >> Much useful further information about the current conflict can be found >> on the JVfP website at http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/ >> >> In solidarity, >> >> Alan Sokal >> Bruce Robbins >> >> >> *** TEXT OF JEWISH VOICE FOR PEACE CALL TO ACTION *** >> >> On July 6, in a full-page ad in The Times of London, 300 British Jews >> cried out against the collective punishment of the people of Gaza with >> the anguished question, "What Is Israel Doing?" Several weeks later, >> as the Middle East sinks deeper into chaos, that question is ever more >> urgent. >> >> Hezbollah's attack on an IDF outpost was a violation of international law. >> And after Israel attacked Lebanon, Hezbollah fired missiles at Israeli >> cities, killing and injuring civilians. This is not morally acceptable, >> whatever the provocation. >> >> But Israel's response -- an explosion of violence and collective >> punishment directed against airports, bridges and populated neighborhoods >> of Lebanon -- is an even greater crime. And now Lebanon, like Gaza, >> is on the brink of a humanitarian disaster. >> >> In the face of so much violence and suffering, the United States' vetoes >> of UN Security Council resolutions calling for a cease fire are immoral >> and irresponsible. >> >> We call upon U.S. Jews and others to join us in support of Israeli >> peace groups who write: "The only way to guarantee a different future >> of peace and security is by ending the occupation and establishing a >> relationship of equality and respect between Israelis and Palestinians >> and between Israelis and the neighboring nations." >> >> We call upon the U.S. government to use its influence with Israel >> to stop the collective punishment of the people of Gaza and Lebanon; >> to work with the international community to impose a cease-fire and >> prevent any further loss of civilian life; and to work for the >> immediate start of direct, good-faith negotiations. >> >> Israel's ongoing occupation of Palestinian territories and massive >> human rights abuses against the Palestinian and Lebanese peoples are >> opposed by many Jews in Israel, the U.S., and throughout the world. >> >> Attacks on civilians will not bring peace, security or justice to >> Palestinians, Israelis, or Jews anywhere. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 00:06:55 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: For Ruth Lepson and anyone who cares: A Palestinian/Lebanese poet responds MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Paul, et alles: Isn't it distressing that here in the "western" world, we quibble over = the question of "Israel's right to exist" and we ignore the root cause = question: "The West's right to usurp lands and establish an Israel." =20 Remember, there was no Palestine prior to the U.K's having created it as = a harbor for European Jews following the end of WWI (of course urged on = by European Zionists). =20 And there was no Israel prior to the Jews in Palestine having declared = themselves an independent nation in 1947. Of course, it was only after = the U.K. and the U.S. signed the U.N. resolution in 1948 acknowledging = the sovereign nation of Israel in the region that the real conflict = began between Jews in Palestine and Muslims (now Palestinians) in the = region. Israelis proudly boast of the defeat they inflicted upon the Egyptians = and the Jordanians in the war of 1948, but here too, Westerners = (specifically sympathetic Christians) ignore the issue that the heavily = armed Israelis (thanks to U.K. and U.S. weaponry and military training) = defeated a lessor equipped set of enemies.=20 In point of fact, the U.K. and the U.S. defeated Egypt and Jordan in = that 1948 skirmish. =20 More importantly, the Israelis claim victory in their past 14 wars since = 1948 against what they refer to as Arab aggression and Muslim terrorism. = Those victories, however, have always been because the Israelis had = superior weaponry and training. And both the U.K. and the U.S. have and = continue to sell their latest weapons to the Israelis. In fact, the = Israeli Air Force may be better equipped than the Air Force of the = country that sold them their airplanes. I'm truly dismayed at the mess in the region; however, personally, I = don't give a damn whether there is or is not a nation called Israel = located anywhere on the face of the earth. That said, I also don't give = a damn about a nation called Palestine...frankly, I like the idea of the = region returning to the nomadic village structure pre-1917. =20 But...and here's the rub, I have some U.S. born Jewish citizen friends = who are willing to enlist in the Israeli Army and defend Israel against = all its enemies, Muslim or otherwise.=20 Add that fact to the stated mission of Hezbollah, and you have a formula = for war. =20 I am confident that the root cause of the problems can be traced to the = Balfour Declaration and the Brit's establishment of the Jewish homeland = in that region.=20 I am equally confident in saying that a Jewish theocracy, by virtue of = being a theocracy, is no better nor worse than a Muslim theocracy. =20 I am also and finally distressed at the fact that nine (9) U.S. = presidents since HST in 1948 have vowed to aid King Abdullah I in = solving the "Palestinian Problem" and none of those presidents has done = anything but work as a diligent Christian to lend support to Israel and = ignore the principal issues.=20 Too, you are accurate, the screaming over nuclear weapons in Iran (or = WMD's in Iraq) has nothing what so ever to do with those nation's = inability to deliver those weapons long range to our shores. Rather, = they bespeak the issue of bombing (nuclear or otherwise) Israel. =20 What amuses me more than the issue of NO WMD's in Iraq is the point = missed by the press and the critics that even had S.H. had an A-Bomb, = his military lacked the delivery mechanism...we could have given S.H. an = "A" bomb and watched him fumble with the issue of deploying the = mechanism. His airforce, on a really good day, would have had = difficulty dropping one over Haifa. That air force could not have = delivered an "A" bomb to Rome, let alone to Paris or London. And they = had no ability what so ever of reaching WA D.C. But that's all a moot = point. It's just to point out there's more to WMD's than owning or = possessing them. =20 I apologize to you and to your suffering relatives who find themselves = in the center of the Western European & U.S. support of the Israeli = survival mayhem, and I wish I could offer more than a few trivial words = of compassion.=20 Unfortunately, so long as there are compassionate Christians who = continue to dote on the idea that Jesus was a Jew, and therefore there = should be Jews in their "HOLY LAND" there will be people willing to die = for their cause. =20 Sorry I can't offer more help than that...keep writing. =20 Alex=20 Original Message -----=20 From: Paul Catafago=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 3:17 PM Subject: For Ruth Lepson and anyone who cares: A Palestinian/Lebanese = poet responds My name is Paul Catafago. I am a poet and director of the New York = based arts non-profit Movement One: Creative Coalition = (www.movementone.org). For the past = several days, I have read your posts and decided to respond.=20 I am Palestinian (My father was born in Jaffa in 1911) and Lebanese = (Beiruti from my mother's side) so I will tell you that your posts have = been hurtful. I have very close relatives who live in Lebanon- including my 84 = year old uncle who was displaced by Israel's agression. My uncle is not = a member of Hizbollah (the propoganda machine has tried to convince = people that all Lebanese who have suffered from Israel's agression are = members of Hizbollah). He is in fact a Catholic monk who naturally = doesn't like Israel much. I am not anti-semitic. In fact, I am a semite. However, the = propoganda machine as well, of course, as the agressive tactics of the = state of Israel, all fueled by pathetic and irrational fear sicken me. =20 (ISRAEL IS THE ONLY COUNTRY IN THE MIDDLE EAST WITH NUCLEAR = CAPABILITY- AND WHY IS THAT? WASN'T IRAQ INVADED AND EFFECITIVELY = DESTROYED BY AMERICA BECAUSE THE U.S. FEARED THEY HAD "WEAPONS OF MASS = DESTRUCTION" INCLUDING THE TECHNOLOGY TO MAKE NUKES? SO WHY IS IT OK FOR = ISRAEL TO HAVE THEM, AND NO OTHER STATE CAN?) =20 There is a double standard here. No matter what reason you can give, = no matter what explanation or justification, the fact is Israel operates = under and over international norms. And the genius of the propoganda machine is that if anyone ever = criticizes Israel, they are deemed "anti-semitic". =20 Your fear that Israel will be destroyed as the safe haven for Jews = has made you turn a blind eye on both reality and history. The fact is = Israel has the world's fourth largest military and "enjoys" blind = support of the US. The fact is, as well, throughout the years, Israel = has overseen some of the most horrific acts of injustice in modern = times. =20 Have you heard of Sabra and Shatilla? These are two Palestinian = refugee camps in Beirut. In 1982, shortly after Israel had invaded = Lebanon under the command of Defense Minister Ariel Sharon, the Israelis = dummied up documents to show the Lebanese Christian militia, the = Phalangists, that the PLO had assasinated the charismatic Lebanese = Christian President, Bashir Gemayel. The truth was that Gemayel was = killed by Amal, a Syrian backed faction. But by lying to the = Phalangists, Israel- specifically Sharon knew it would incite them to do = something drastic against the PLO- essentially doing Israel's bidding. So an attack on these two refugee camps was suggested- and on = September 12, 1982, the Phalangists began massacres in both the camps. = By the end of it, thousands of inncoent Palestinians, HUMAN BEINGS, had = been killed, under the watchful eyes of Israeli military leaders, = reported to be watching the massacres from adjacent roofs. =20 In the end, all of this doesn't matter, because by this time, after = reading your posts, and witnessing your whimpering about being attacked = by "progressives and leftists.", you still haven't admitted that Israel = has done something wrong.=20 =20 I am not a terrorist. I am not anti-semitic. But I have lived in = both Palestine and Lebanon (I heard an Israeli commentator the past few = days say that the Lebanese- especially Christians are secretly admiring = Israel for trying to take out Hizbollah. I will tell you this is a bold = faced lie. I am not commenting on Hizbollah here- but I will say the = Lebanese Christians I know (my family is Christian) view the events of = the past weeks as unjust unilateral attacks on Lebanon by Israel.)=20 I know what I have experienced of Israel's power. I will refer you here to the writings of my old mentor, the Jewish = theologian Marc Ellis, Director of Baylor University's Religious Studies = Department, concerning Israel and biblical ethics in regards to Israel's = mistreatment of Palestinians. Then there are the the writings of Noam Chomsky- especially his = book, "The Fateful Triangle" which outlined how during America's embargo = against the apartheid regime of South Africa, the US re-routed funds = through Israel and Israel then flipped them over to the racists in = Pretoria. Chomsky happens to be Jewish. The fact is that Israel is a state, a legitimate country. So there = is no issue here of "recognizing Israel" because Israel exists in every = way a nation can. However, Ruth, as a Palestinian and Lebanese, I have a right to = exist as well. The big problem is that Israel wants recognition normally = as a state like other nations, but then they do things that other = countries could never get away with. As a result of the massacres I told you about- Sabra and Shatilla- = Ariel Sharon was indicted by an international tribunal in Belgium about = ten years ago. The indictment was shrugged off as another evidence of European = anti-semitism, and eventually, Sharon rose to poer as Israel's Prime = Minister. (How would you feel if you were a Palestinian and the person = who had been condemned, by an international tribunal, as the architect = of massacres against your people became Prime Minister?) =20 There is philosophy of opression that says that ultimately any = occupation, any injustice, will be more detrimental to the oppressor = than the ones who were oppressed. What is incredible, though, is that as = my people- old grandmothers, children, innocent men, continue to bear = things like invasion and occupation and strafe bombing by the state of = Israel, the propoganda machine turns it around where it's not just that = our suffering at Israeli hands is ignored.The facts and truths are = twisted around where we are blamed for our own suffering. =20 By now the media has reported on every detail of the Israelis = soldiers who were captured in their war with Hizbollah. But who knows = about the at least six hundred Lebanese citizens who have been killed by = Israel. The message here is that our life is cheap compared to Israeli = life. =20 I will finish with this: for the last twenty years, the great = Palestinian poet Mahmoud Darwish, winner of amongst other things a = Lannan Award, has been refused entry into the United States. Darwish is = a poet. He has never taken up an arm in his life. But Israel has told = the US that Darwish should never be allowed into the country because = they are afraid that his eloquence will open up American eyes to the = truth of what Israel has done. What does it say of a government, a = society, when it attempts to silence a = poet?????????????????????????????? =20 As a gift, here is a poem by Darwish.=20 =20 The Prison Cell by Mahmoud Darwish, trans. by Ben Bennani =20 It is possible It is possible at least sometimes. It is possible especially now To ride a horse Inside a prison cell And run away.. =20 It is possible for prison walls, To disappear, For the cell to become a distant land Without frontiers: =20 -What did you do with the walls? -I gave them back to the rocks. -And what did you do with the ceiling? -I turned it into a saddle. -And your chain? -I turned it into a pencil. =20 The prison guard got angry. He put an end to the dialogue. He said he didn't care for poetry, And bolted the door of my cell. =20 He came back to see me=20 In the morning; He shouted at me: =20 -Where did all this water come from? -I brought it from the Nile. -And the trees? -From the orchards of Damascus. -And the music? -From my heartbeat. =20 The prison guard got mad: He put an end to my dialogue. He said he didn't like my poetry, And bolted the door to my cell. =20 But he returned in the evening: =20 -Where did this moon come from? -From the nights of Baghdad. -And the wine? -From the vineyards of Algiers. -And this freedom? -From the chain you tied me with last night. =20 The prison guard grew so sad.. He begged me to give him back =20 His freedom. Ruth Lepson > wrote: Whether or not Israel shd be invading Lebanon is an open & = complicated question, and every human life is valuable, & what is happening there = is heartbreaking. That doesn't mean, however, that Israel is imperialist. Withdrawing the pre-war borders is not going to solve all the problems = of dealing w/ people who want to see Israel destroyed. You cd say that = war has not helped the Middle East; you could also say that Israel wd have = been destroyed by now had it not fought at certain moments of its history. On 7/27/06 7:42 PM, "ALDON L NIELSEN" wrote: > I've actually had the experience of negotiating with somebody who = thought I > should not exist, but that's another story for another day. >=20 > When, exactly, has Israel "given up land"? let alone "more" -- They = have > withdrawn from land they occupied in war, following negotiations = with the > parties with whom they had been at war. They have recently withdrawn = from Gaza > -- but they have also gone back in when it suited them in response = to attacks > mounted from Gaza. Were they more vulnerable after the withdrawal = from Gaza > than they were before? To speak of giving up land implies that it = was theirs > to give up. >=20 > The reasoning here is odd in the extreme. It seems to hold that, = since people > who don't believe Israel should exist threaten to attack Israel, = therefore > Israel should annex lands they have occupied in war. It seems to = argue that > to > withdraw from occupied territories in itself makes Israel more = vulnerable. > And > it would seem to propose that Israel has the unlimited right to = creat "buffer" > zones where and as it chooses for its own protection, which buffer = zones > themselves could well require additional territorial buffering if = Israel still > feels threatened. >=20 > As I said to a previous correpondent, you may well feel that by = destroying the > infrastructure of Lebanon, creating hundreds of thousands of = refugees and > killing hundreds, Israel becomes less vulnerable. Sounds to me more = like the > reasoning that must go on in the heads of Hezbollah, who seem to = think that > attacking civilians in Israel is good for their cause. Thanks to our > government's wink and nod, we will have time to see if that belief = holds true. > Nobody is going to stop Israel, so we will see if this strategy = makes them > less > vulnerable in the long run. It certainly doesn't look to me like = it's worked > to that effect in the past. >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 17:44:59, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: >=20 >> In a message dated 07/27/06 4:17:36 PM, = aln10@PSU.EDU writes: >>=20 >>=20 >>> What is Israel to do? >>>=20 >>> Return to its internationally recognized '67 borders. Defend = itself against >=20 >>> any >>> incursions, with the full support of the international community. >>>=20 >>=20 >> To paraphrase Hobbes, the root of both all social contracts and = wars is fear. >> Could someone explain to me how one negotiates with an adversary = who openly, >> literally (not implicitly or subject to interpratation) tells you = you should >> not exist. Can you imagine a party giving up more land and making = itself more >> vulnerable, in the face of such a clearly enunciated threat? >>=20 >> Murat >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >=20 > = <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>= >> >=20 > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > --Emily Dickinson >=20 > Sailing the blogosphere at: = http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ >=20 > Aldon L. Nielsen > Kelly Professor of American Literature > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 >=20 > (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 11:23:10 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "e.g. vajda" Subject: sleepingfish launch party MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline *The Sleepingfish 0.875 launch Party will be on Sunday, July 30 at 6:30 PM at **Magnetic Field* * in Brooklyn. Reading at the event will be Anne Pelletier, Christian TeBordo, Dana Kooperman, Doug Martin, Grace Vajda, Joe Salvatore, Jonathon Dixon, Joshua Cohen, and Nelly Reifler. * ** *hope to see you there!* ** *www.sleepingfish.net* ** *grace vajda* ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 12:07:31 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: For Ruth Lepson and anyone who cares: A Palestinian/Lebanese poet responds In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed This is too diffuse to lend itself to critique (or to be worth the trouble). Just a historical note: Palestine became a political entity under the Romans and remained one until the Ottomans, who divided their turf differently. Even then the word continued to be the popular designation for the area, on the ground and in Europe. Mark At 03:06 AM 7/29/2006, you wrote: >Paul, et alles: > >Isn't it distressing that here in the "western" world, we quibble >over the question of "Israel's right to exist" and we ignore the >root cause question: "The West's right to usurp lands and establish >an Israel." > >Remember, there was no Palestine prior to the U.K's having created >it as a harbor for European Jews following the end of WWI (of course >urged on by European Zionists). > >And there was no Israel prior to the Jews in Palestine having >declared themselves an independent nation in 1947. Of course, it >was only after the U.K. and the U.S. signed the U.N. resolution in >1948 acknowledging the sovereign nation of Israel in the region that >the real conflict began between Jews in Palestine and Muslims (now >Palestinians) in the region. > >Israelis proudly boast of the defeat they inflicted upon the >Egyptians and the Jordanians in the war of 1948, but here too, >Westerners (specifically sympathetic Christians) ignore the issue >that the heavily armed Israelis (thanks to U.K. and U.S. weaponry >and military training) defeated a lessor equipped set of enemies. > >In point of fact, the U.K. and the U.S. defeated Egypt and Jordan in >that 1948 skirmish. > >More importantly, the Israelis claim victory in their past 14 wars >since 1948 against what they refer to as Arab aggression and Muslim >terrorism. Those victories, however, have always been because the >Israelis had superior weaponry and training. And both the U.K. and >the U.S. have and continue to sell their latest weapons to the >Israelis. In fact, the Israeli Air Force may be better equipped >than the Air Force of the country that sold them their airplanes. > >I'm truly dismayed at the mess in the region; however, personally, I >don't give a damn whether there is or is not a nation called Israel >located anywhere on the face of the earth. That said, I also don't >give a damn about a nation called Palestine...frankly, I like the >idea of the region returning to the nomadic village structure pre-1917. > >But...and here's the rub, I have some U.S. born Jewish citizen >friends who are willing to enlist in the Israeli Army and defend >Israel against all its enemies, Muslim or otherwise. > >Add that fact to the stated mission of Hezbollah, and you have a >formula for war. > >I am confident that the root cause of the problems can be traced to >the Balfour Declaration and the Brit's establishment of the Jewish >homeland in that region. > >I am equally confident in saying that a Jewish theocracy, by virtue >of being a theocracy, is no better nor worse than a Muslim theocracy. > >I am also and finally distressed at the fact that nine (9) U.S. >presidents since HST in 1948 have vowed to aid King Abdullah I in >solving the "Palestinian Problem" and none of those presidents has >done anything but work as a diligent Christian to lend support to >Israel and ignore the principal issues. > >Too, you are accurate, the screaming over nuclear weapons in Iran >(or WMD's in Iraq) has nothing what so ever to do with those >nation's inability to deliver those weapons long range to our >shores. Rather, they bespeak the issue of bombing (nuclear or >otherwise) Israel. > >What amuses me more than the issue of NO WMD's in Iraq is the point >missed by the press and the critics that even had S.H. had an >A-Bomb, his military lacked the delivery mechanism...we could have >given S.H. an "A" bomb and watched him fumble with the issue of >deploying the mechanism. His airforce, on a really good day, would >have had difficulty dropping one over Haifa. That air force could >not have delivered an "A" bomb to Rome, let alone to Paris or >London. And they had no ability what so ever of reaching WA >D.C. But that's all a moot point. It's just to point out there's >more to WMD's than owning or possessing them. > >I apologize to you and to your suffering relatives who find >themselves in the center of the Western European & U.S. support of >the Israeli survival mayhem, and I wish I could offer more than a >few trivial words of compassion. > >Unfortunately, so long as there are compassionate Christians who >continue to dote on the idea that Jesus was a Jew, and therefore >there should be Jews in their "HOLY LAND" there will be people >willing to die for their cause. > >Sorry I can't offer more help than that...keep writing. > >Alex > > >Original Message ----- > From: Paul Catafago > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 3:17 PM > Subject: For Ruth Lepson and anyone who cares: A > Palestinian/Lebanese poet responds > > > My name is Paul Catafago. I am a poet and director of the New > York based arts non-profit Movement One: Creative Coalition > (www.movementone.org). For the past > several days, I have read your posts and decided to respond. > I am Palestinian (My father was born in Jaffa in 1911) and > Lebanese (Beiruti from my mother's side) so I will tell you that > your posts have been hurtful. > I have very close relatives who live in Lebanon- including my > 84 year old uncle who was displaced by Israel's agression. My uncle > is not a member of Hizbollah (the propoganda machine has tried to > convince people that all Lebanese who have suffered from Israel's > agression are members of Hizbollah). He is in fact a Catholic monk > who naturally doesn't like Israel much. > I am not anti-semitic. In fact, I am a semite. However, the > propoganda machine as well, of course, as the agressive tactics of > the state of Israel, all fueled by pathetic and irrational fear sicken me. > > (ISRAEL IS THE ONLY COUNTRY IN THE MIDDLE EAST WITH NUCLEAR > CAPABILITY- AND WHY IS THAT? WASN'T IRAQ INVADED AND EFFECITIVELY > DESTROYED BY AMERICA BECAUSE THE U.S. FEARED THEY HAD "WEAPONS OF > MASS DESTRUCTION" INCLUDING THE TECHNOLOGY TO MAKE NUKES? SO WHY IS > IT OK FOR ISRAEL TO HAVE THEM, AND NO OTHER STATE CAN?) > > There is a double standard here. No matter what reason you can > give, no matter what explanation or justification, the fact is > Israel operates under and over international norms. > And the genius of the propoganda machine is that if anyone ever > criticizes Israel, they are deemed "anti-semitic". > > Your fear that Israel will be destroyed as the safe haven for > Jews has made you turn a blind eye on both reality and history. The > fact is Israel has the world's fourth largest military and "enjoys" > blind support of the US. The fact is, as well, throughout the > years, Israel has overseen some of the most horrific acts of > injustice in modern times. > > Have you heard of Sabra and Shatilla? These are two Palestinian > refugee camps in Beirut. In 1982, shortly after Israel had invaded > Lebanon under the command of Defense Minister Ariel Sharon, the > Israelis dummied up documents to show the Lebanese Christian > militia, the Phalangists, that the PLO had assasinated the > charismatic Lebanese Christian President, Bashir Gemayel. The truth > was that Gemayel was killed by Amal, a Syrian backed faction. But > by lying to the Phalangists, Israel- specifically Sharon knew it > would incite them to do something drastic against the PLO- > essentially doing Israel's bidding. > So an attack on these two refugee camps was suggested- and on > September 12, 1982, the Phalangists began massacres in both the > camps. By the end of it, thousands of inncoent Palestinians, HUMAN > BEINGS, had been killed, under the watchful eyes of Israeli > military leaders, reported to be watching the massacres from adjacent roofs. > > In the end, all of this doesn't matter, because by this time, > after reading your posts, and witnessing your whimpering about > being attacked by "progressives and leftists.", you still haven't > admitted that Israel has done something wrong. > > I am not a terrorist. I am not anti-semitic. But I have lived > in both Palestine and Lebanon (I heard an Israeli commentator the > past few days say that the Lebanese- especially Christians are > secretly admiring Israel for trying to take out Hizbollah. I will > tell you this is a bold faced lie. I am not commenting on Hizbollah > here- but I will say the Lebanese Christians I know (my family is > Christian) view the events of the past weeks as unjust unilateral > attacks on Lebanon by Israel.) > I know what I have experienced of Israel's power. > I will refer you here to the writings of my old mentor, the > Jewish theologian Marc Ellis, Director of Baylor University's > Religious Studies Department, concerning Israel and biblical ethics > in regards to Israel's mistreatment of Palestinians. > Then there are the the writings of Noam Chomsky- especially his > book, "The Fateful Triangle" which outlined how during America's > embargo against the apartheid regime of South Africa, the US > re-routed funds through Israel and Israel then flipped them over to > the racists in Pretoria. Chomsky happens to be Jewish. > The fact is that Israel is a state, a legitimate country. So > there is no issue here of "recognizing Israel" because Israel > exists in every way a nation can. > However, Ruth, as a Palestinian and Lebanese, I have a right to > exist as well. The big problem is that Israel wants recognition > normally as a state like other nations, but then they do things > that other countries could never get away with. > As a result of the massacres I told you about- Sabra and > Shatilla- Ariel Sharon was indicted by an international tribunal in > Belgium about ten years ago. > The indictment was shrugged off as another evidence of European > anti-semitism, and eventually, Sharon rose to poer as Israel's > Prime Minister. (How would you feel if you were a Palestinian and > the person who had been condemned, by an international tribunal, as > the architect of massacres against your people became Prime Minister?) > > There is philosophy of opression that says that ultimately any > occupation, any injustice, will be more detrimental to the > oppressor than the ones who were oppressed. What is incredible, > though, is that as my people- old grandmothers, children, innocent > men, continue to bear things like invasion and occupation and > strafe bombing by the state of Israel, the propoganda machine turns > it around where it's not just that our suffering at Israeli hands > is ignored.The facts and truths are twisted around where we are > blamed for our own suffering. > > By now the media has reported on every detail of the Israelis > soldiers who were captured in their war with Hizbollah. But who > knows about the at least six hundred Lebanese citizens who have > been killed by Israel. The message here is that our life is cheap > compared to Israeli life. > > I will finish with this: for the last twenty years, the great > Palestinian poet Mahmoud Darwish, winner of amongst other things a > Lannan Award, has been refused entry into the United States. > Darwish is a poet. He has never taken up an arm in his life. But > Israel has told the US that Darwish should never be allowed into > the country because they are afraid that his eloquence will open up > American eyes to the truth of what Israel has done. What does it > say of a government, a society, when it attempts to silence a > poet?????????????????????????????? > > As a gift, here is a poem by Darwish. > > The Prison Cell > by Mahmoud Darwish, trans. by Ben Bennani > > It is possible > It is possible at least sometimes. > It is possible especially now > To ride a horse > Inside a prison cell > And run away.. > > It is possible for prison walls, > To disappear, > For the cell to become a distant land > Without frontiers: > > -What did you do with the walls? > -I gave them back to the rocks. > -And what did you do with the ceiling? > -I turned it into a saddle. > -And your chain? > -I turned it into a pencil. > > The prison guard got angry. > He put an end to the dialogue. > He said he didn't care for poetry, > And bolted the door of my cell. > > He came back to see me > In the morning; > He shouted at me: > > -Where did all this water come from? > -I brought it from the Nile. > -And the trees? > -From the orchards of Damascus. > -And the music? > -From my heartbeat. > > The prison guard got mad: > He put an end to my dialogue. > He said he didn't like my poetry, > And bolted the door to my cell. > > But he returned in the evening: > > -Where did this moon come from? > -From the nights of Baghdad. > -And the wine? > -From the vineyards of Algiers. > -And this freedom? > -From the chain you tied me with last night. > > The prison guard grew so sad.. > He begged me to give him back > His freedom. > > Ruth Lepson > wrote: > Whether or not Israel shd be invading Lebanon is an open & complicated > question, and every human life is valuable, & what is happening there is > heartbreaking. That doesn't mean, however, that Israel is imperialist. > Withdrawing the pre-war borders is not going to solve all the problems of > dealing w/ people who want to see Israel destroyed. You cd say that war has > not helped the Middle East; you could also say that Israel wd have been > destroyed by now had it not fought at certain moments of its history. > > > On 7/27/06 7:42 PM, "ALDON L NIELSEN" wrote: > > > I've actually had the experience of negotiating with somebody > who thought I > > should not exist, but that's another story for another day. > > > > When, exactly, has Israel "given up land"? let alone "more" -- They have > > withdrawn from land they occupied in war, following negotiations with the > > parties with whom they had been at war. They have recently > withdrawn from Gaza > > -- but they have also gone back in when it suited them in > response to attacks > > mounted from Gaza. Were they more vulnerable after the > withdrawal from Gaza > > than they were before? To speak of giving up land implies that > it was theirs > > to give up. > > > > The reasoning here is odd in the extreme. It seems to hold > that, since people > > who don't believe Israel should exist threaten to attack > Israel, therefore > > Israel should annex lands they have occupied in war. It seems > to argue that > > to > > withdraw from occupied territories in itself makes Israel more > vulnerable. > > And > > it would seem to propose that Israel has the unlimited right to > creat "buffer" > > zones where and as it chooses for its own protection, which buffer zones > > themselves could well require additional territorial buffering > if Israel still > > feels threatened. > > > > As I said to a previous correpondent, you may well feel that by > destroying the > > infrastructure of Lebanon, creating hundreds of thousands of refugees and > > killing hundreds, Israel becomes less vulnerable. Sounds to me > more like the > > reasoning that must go on in the heads of Hezbollah, who seem > to think that > > attacking civilians in Israel is good for their cause. Thanks to our > > government's wink and nod, we will have time to see if that > belief holds true. > > Nobody is going to stop Israel, so we will see if this strategy > makes them > > less > > vulnerable in the long run. It certainly doesn't look to me > like it's worked > > to that effect in the past. > > > > > > > > On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 17:44:59, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > > > >> In a message dated 07/27/06 4:17:36 PM, > aln10@PSU.EDU writes: > >> > >> > >>> What is Israel to do? > >>> > >>> Return to its internationally recognized '67 borders. Defend > itself against > > > >>> any > >>> incursions, with the full support of the international community. > >>> > >> > >> To paraphrase Hobbes, the root of both all social contracts > and wars is fear. > >> Could someone explain to me how one negotiates with an > adversary who openly, > >> literally (not implicitly or subject to interpratation) tells > you you should > >> not exist. Can you imagine a party giving up more land and > making itself more > >> vulnerable, in the face of such a clearly enunciated threat? > >> > >> Murat > >> > >> > >> > > > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > > --Emily Dickinson > > > > Sailing the blogosphere at: > http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > > > > Aldon L. Nielsen > > Kelly Professor of American Literature > > The Pennsylvania State University > > 116 Burrowes > > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > > > (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 07:12:58 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabrielle Welford Subject: Open Letter from American Jews In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT dear maria, ruth, paul, aryanil and all, when i saw the first emails, i thought we were going to descend into flinging blame. i feel truly warmed by this exchange, the honesty and vulnerability of it. thank you, gabe On Sat, 29 Jul 2006, Maria Damon wrote: > dear ruth, dear aryanil, dear everyone: > this is quite painful for all of us. here is a step that some of us > at least can take if we want to. it is a petition. although it's > sponsored by Jewish Voice for Peace i don't think you have to be > Jewish to sign. > > metta, > md > > > >Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 07:38:14 -0400 > >From: Alan Sokal > >To: Maria Damon > >Subject: Open Letter from American Jews > > > >Dear signers and supporters of the "Open Letter from American Jews": > > > >In this sad moment for peace in the Middle East, we would like to urge > >your urgent support of a petition organized by Jewish Voice for Peace, > >which in our view is extremely balanced, fair and rational. > >You can sign on-line at > >http://www.democracyinaction.org/dia/organizationsORG/jvfp/petition.jsp?petition_KEY=323 > > > >The full text of the petition is copied below. > > > >Much useful further information about the current conflict can be found > >on the JVfP website at http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/ > > > > In solidarity, > > > > Alan Sokal > > Bruce Robbins > > > > > >*** TEXT OF JEWISH VOICE FOR PEACE CALL TO ACTION *** > > > >On July 6, in a full-page ad in The Times of London, 300 British Jews > >cried out against the collective punishment of the people of Gaza with > >the anguished question, "What Is Israel Doing?" Several weeks later, > >as the Middle East sinks deeper into chaos, that question is ever more > >urgent. > > > >Hezbollah's attack on an IDF outpost was a violation of international law. > >And after Israel attacked Lebanon, Hezbollah fired missiles at Israeli > >cities, killing and injuring civilians. This is not morally acceptable, > >whatever the provocation. > > > >But Israel's response -- an explosion of violence and collective > >punishment directed against airports, bridges and populated neighborhoods > >of Lebanon -- is an even greater crime. And now Lebanon, like Gaza, > >is on the brink of a humanitarian disaster. > > > >In the face of so much violence and suffering, the United States' vetoes > >of UN Security Council resolutions calling for a cease fire are immoral > >and irresponsible. > > > >We call upon U.S. Jews and others to join us in support of Israeli > >peace groups who write: "The only way to guarantee a different future > >of peace and security is by ending the occupation and establishing a > >relationship of equality and respect between Israelis and Palestinians > >and between Israelis and the neighboring nations." > > > >We call upon the U.S. government to use its influence with Israel > >to stop the collective punishment of the people of Gaza and Lebanon; > >to work with the international community to impose a cease-fire and > >prevent any further loss of civilian life; and to work for the > >immediate start of direct, good-faith negotiations. > > > >Israel's ongoing occupation of Palestinian territories and massive > >human rights abuses against the Palestinian and Lebanese peoples are > >opposed by many Jews in Israel, the U.S., and throughout the world. > > > >Attacks on civilians will not bring peace, security or justice to > >Palestinians, Israelis, or Jews anywhere. > gabrielle welford welford@hawaii.edu Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.595 / Virus Database: 378 - Release Date: 2/25/2004 wilhelm reich anarcho-syndicalism gut/heart/head/earth ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 12:20:01 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: Re: Vipassana Meditation Thought for the Day In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That post should have had quote marks around it: was from an essay by Paul Fleischman (as indicated at bottom of post). DBC: I liked that Michelangelo aphorism. - Gabe ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 11:30:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Open Letter from American Jews In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > dear ruth, dear aryanil, dear everyone: > this is quite painful for all of us. here is a step that some of us > at least can take if we want to. it is a petition. although it's > sponsored by Jewish Voice for Peace i don't think you have to be > Jewish to sign. Being Jewish is not necessary. If you are, there is a box where you can indicate that you are Jewish. Thanks, Maria. Happy to sign this one. Parenthetically, as Aldon has pointed out, images of the civilian tragedies of this war ('there are no innocent bystanders' clearly), this url: http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/07/29/060729110246.0h0g1zoy.html gives a horrifying description of ecological damage from the Israeli bombing of a power station in Jiyeh two weeks ago, which has now leaked 15 to 30K tons of oil into the Mediterranean. The biggest oil disaster ever on that sea. Condoleezza Rice's 'birth pangs of democracy' and G Bush's "moment of opportunity for the Mid East' bring language bashing up to a new level, or one familiar in use by certain Germans in the 1930's. What's curious to me - re Cable Fox Network, CNN and MNBC is the way normally conservative anchors positioned in Lebanon, say Tucker Carlson, and, for awhile, Anderson Cooper, get upset by the extent of the human and structural damage caused by the onslaught of the Israeli bombardment. (Our tax dollars midwifing the birth of the democratic mid east!). Then, these anchors are transferred out of Lebanon to narrate the war from within Israel - where folks in the north are obviously suffering - emotionally and physically - from the Hezbollah rocket attacks. But the physical damage is certainly minimal in comparison to that of what is being dealt by Israel's American made F-15s, drones and so forth in the bombing destruction of Lebanon. That 'good' moment of having the war narrated from both sides, I suspect, is put in jeopardy by value systems of the corporate bosses (Murdoch et al) who manage the anchors. It's way all way heart breaking, grievous. Stephen V > metta, > md > > >> Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 07:38:14 -0400 >> From: Alan Sokal >> To: Maria Damon >> Subject: Open Letter from American Jews >> >> Dear signers and supporters of the "Open Letter from American Jews": >> >> In this sad moment for peace in the Middle East, we would like to urge >> your urgent support of a petition organized by Jewish Voice for Peace, >> which in our view is extremely balanced, fair and rational. >> You can sign on-line at >> http://www.democracyinaction.org/dia/organizationsORG/jvfp/petition.jsp?petit >> ion_KEY=323 >> >> The full text of the petition is copied below. >> >> Much useful further information about the current conflict can be found >> on the JVfP website at http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/ >> >> In solidarity, >> >> Alan Sokal >> Bruce Robbins >> >> >> *** TEXT OF JEWISH VOICE FOR PEACE CALL TO ACTION *** >> >> On July 6, in a full-page ad in The Times of London, 300 British Jews >> cried out against the collective punishment of the people of Gaza with >> the anguished question, "What Is Israel Doing?" Several weeks later, >> as the Middle East sinks deeper into chaos, that question is ever more >> urgent. >> >> Hezbollah's attack on an IDF outpost was a violation of international law. >> And after Israel attacked Lebanon, Hezbollah fired missiles at Israeli >> cities, killing and injuring civilians. This is not morally acceptable, >> whatever the provocation. >> >> But Israel's response -- an explosion of violence and collective >> punishment directed against airports, bridges and populated neighborhoods >> of Lebanon -- is an even greater crime. And now Lebanon, like Gaza, >> is on the brink of a humanitarian disaster. >> >> In the face of so much violence and suffering, the United States' vetoes >> of UN Security Council resolutions calling for a cease fire are immoral >> and irresponsible. >> >> We call upon U.S. Jews and others to join us in support of Israeli >> peace groups who write: "The only way to guarantee a different future >> of peace and security is by ending the occupation and establishing a >> relationship of equality and respect between Israelis and Palestinians >> and between Israelis and the neighboring nations." >> >> We call upon the U.S. government to use its influence with Israel >> to stop the collective punishment of the people of Gaza and Lebanon; >> to work with the international community to impose a cease-fire and >> prevent any further loss of civilian life; and to work for the >> immediate start of direct, good-faith negotiations. >> >> Israel's ongoing occupation of Palestinian territories and massive >> human rights abuses against the Palestinian and Lebanese peoples are >> opposed by many Jews in Israel, the U.S., and throughout the world. >> >> Attacks on civilians will not bring peace, security or justice to >> Palestinians, Israelis, or Jews anywhere. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 12:16:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Paul Catafago Subject: FOR RUTH LEPSON: ADDRESS THE ARAB In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The fact that you responded to Aryanil Mukherjee- who responded to my original post says so much about you. I am Palestinian. I am Lebanese. All you care about is your fears, your pain. I have enough of this. You are insincere, and everyone should know it. Paul Catafago Ruth Lepson wrote: Aryanil-- Of course I have heard about Sabra & Shatilla and do not think most Lebanese are members of Hizbollah. Of course I don't think civilians are implicated in what some members of the community have done to others. And if I have been hurtful I am very sorry. Perhaps I shd not have written during a time when Lebanon is going through such agony & terrible suffering. James Carroll recently had an editorial in the Boston Globe saying that when he went to some dinners w/ friends they got angry if he sd anything pro-Israel, & when he went to dinner w/ other friends they got angry if he sd anything pro-Lebanese. He was looking for something in between, Perhaps that doesn't seem possible to you now. But it seemed to me that w/ the exception of 2-3 people the posts lately were all anti-Israel & I felt the need to say something. Most Israelis want peace. Every day now I speak to my Israelis cousins, who are in the small minority against the Israeli invasion of Lebanon, and I hear abt the rockets hitting Haifa, where one of them lives, & both cousins say they are tired of war & they know Israel has done much that is wrong. Yet they despair of any solutions. They are involved in Peace Now. Yet the son of one is for the invasion bec he is worried that since Iran & Syria back Hizbollah the rockets will continue. Every day in Israel for many years there have been an average of 40 violent actions. Well, as I write all this I imagine some might be thinking it sounds like a lot of liberal crap and sentimental justification. I cd also tell you abt the history of my family but you might say the past treatment and present treatment in Europe, too, of Jews, is beside the point. I still think most of the world gets away w/ a lot more than Israel--look at how many countries of the world treat their own citizens--Iran, Sudan, Russia, etc. Prob I will get a lot of angry mail now. But of course each Lebanese citizen is a human being and I am sorry your country is going through such hell. As for Palestine, the same. Ruth On 7/28/06 6:48 PM, "Aryanil Mukherjee" wrote: > Thanks for your bold, wise and frank reaction to Ruth Lepson's e-mail. > Lepson's scream "save Israel", quite frankly, didn't seem to reach > anywhere. > > I tend to stay away from poets who believe in religion. > I think poets have (or should have) one religion and that's poetry. > > I didn't know Mahmoud Dwarish was not allowed into the US. It is a shame > for all of us here, perhaps a bigger shame on poetry itself. If anyone has > seen the brief Dwarish interview from Jean Luc Godard's latest film "Notre > Musique", have probably realized the depth, realm and stature of a poet like > Dwarish. Amidst bandwagons full of poets crying for freedom, Dwarish is a > rarity, he is the Nazim Hikmet of our times. > > Interestingly, Nazim Hikmet was also denied entry into the US umpteen times. > A year before his death in 1960, he told friend Jean Paul Sartre and Pablo > Neruda in Paris that he never understood why he was turned down by the > US government so many times. > > Aryanil Mukherjee > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > Behalf Of Paul Catafago > Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 6:17 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: For Ruth Lepson and anyone who cares: A Palestinian/Lebanese poet > responds > > My name is Paul Catafago. I am a poet and director of the New York based > arts non-profit Movement One: Creative Coalition (www.movementone.org). For > the past several days, I have read your posts and decided to respond. > I am Palestinian (My father was born in Jaffa in 1911) and Lebanese > (Beiruti from my mother's side) so I will tell you that your posts have been > hurtful. > I have very close relatives who live in Lebanon- including my 84 year old > uncle who was displaced by Israel's agression. My uncle is not a member of > Hizbollah (the propoganda machine has tried to convince people that all > Lebanese who have suffered from Israel's agression are members of > Hizbollah). He is in fact a Catholic monk who naturally doesn't like Israel > much. > I am not anti-semitic. In fact, I am a semite. However, the propoganda > machine as well, of course, as the agressive tactics of the state of Israel, > all fueled by pathetic and irrational fear sicken me. > > (ISRAEL IS THE ONLY COUNTRY IN THE MIDDLE EAST WITH NUCLEAR CAPABILITY- > AND WHY IS THAT? WASN'T IRAQ INVADED AND EFFECITIVELY DESTROYED BY AMERICA > BECAUSE THE U.S. FEARED THEY HAD "WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION" INCLUDING THE > TECHNOLOGY TO MAKE NUKES? SO WHY IS IT OK FOR ISRAEL TO HAVE THEM, AND NO > OTHER STATE CAN?) > > There is a double standard here. No matter what reason you can give, no > matter what explanation or justification, the fact is Israel operates under > and over international norms. > And the genius of the propoganda machine is that if anyone ever criticizes > Israel, they are deemed "anti-semitic". > > Your fear that Israel will be destroyed as the safe haven for Jews has > made you turn a blind eye on both reality and history. The fact is Israel > has the world's fourth largest military and "enjoys" blind support of the > US. The fact is, as well, throughout the years, Israel has overseen some of > the most horrific acts of injustice in modern times. > > Have you heard of Sabra and Shatilla? These are two Palestinian refugee > camps in Beirut. In 1982, shortly after Israel had invaded Lebanon under the > command of Defense Minister Ariel Sharon, the Israelis dummied up documents > to show the Lebanese Christian militia, the Phalangists, that the PLO had > assasinated the charismatic Lebanese Christian President, Bashir Gemayel. > The truth was that Gemayel was killed by Amal, a Syrian backed faction. But > by lying to the Phalangists, Israel- specifically Sharon knew it would > incite them to do something drastic against the PLO- essentially doing > Israel's bidding. > So an attack on these two refugee camps was suggested- and on September > 12, 1982, the Phalangists began massacres in both the camps. By the end of > it, thousands of inncoent Palestinians, HUMAN BEINGS, had been killed, under > the watchful eyes of Israeli military leaders, reported to be watching the > massacres from adjacent roofs. > > In the end, all of this doesn't matter, because by this time, after > reading your posts, and witnessing your whimpering about being attacked by > "progressives and leftists.", you still haven't admitted that Israel has > done something wrong. > > I am not a terrorist. I am not anti-semitic. But I have lived in both > Palestine and Lebanon (I heard an Israeli commentator the past few days say > that the Lebanese- especially Christians are secretly admiring Israel for > trying to take out Hizbollah. I will tell you this is a bold faced lie. I am > not commenting on Hizbollah here- but I will say the Lebanese Christians I > know (my family is Christian) view the events of the past weeks as unjust > unilateral attacks on Lebanon by Israel.) > I know what I have experienced of Israel's power. > I will refer you here to the writings of my old mentor, the Jewish > theologian Marc Ellis, Director of Baylor University's Religious Studies > Department, concerning Israel and biblical ethics in regards to Israel's > mistreatment of Palestinians. > Then there are the the writings of Noam Chomsky- especially his book, "The > Fateful Triangle" which outlined how during America's embargo against the > apartheid regime of South Africa, the US re-routed funds through Israel and > Israel then flipped them over to the racists in Pretoria. Chomsky happens to > be Jewish. > The fact is that Israel is a state, a legitimate country. So there is no > issue here of "recognizing Israel" because Israel exists in every way a > nation can. > However, Ruth, as a Palestinian and Lebanese, I have a right to exist as > well. The big problem is that Israel wants recognition normally as a state > like other nations, but then they do things that other countries could never > get away with. > As a result of the massacres I told you about- Sabra and Shatilla- Ariel > Sharon was indicted by an international tribunal in Belgium about ten years > ago. > The indictment was shrugged off as another evidence of European > anti-semitism, and eventually, Sharon rose to poer as Israel's Prime > Minister. (How would you feel if you were a Palestinian and the person who > had been condemned, by an international tribunal, as the architect of > massacres against your people became Prime Minister?) > > There is philosophy of opression that says that ultimately any occupation, > any injustice, will be more detrimental to the oppressor than the ones who > were oppressed. What is incredible, though, is that as my people- old > grandmothers, children, innocent men, continue to bear things like invasion > and occupation and strafe bombing by the state of Israel, the propoganda > machine turns it around where it's not just that our suffering at Israeli > hands is ignored.The facts and truths are twisted around where we are blamed > for our own suffering. > > By now the media has reported on every detail of the Israelis soldiers who > were captured in their war with Hizbollah. But who knows about the at least > six hundred Lebanese citizens who have been killed by Israel. The message > here is that our life is cheap compared to Israeli life. > > I will finish with this: for the last twenty years, the great Palestinian > poet Mahmoud Darwish, winner of amongst other things a Lannan Award, has > been refused entry into the United States. Darwish is a poet. He has never > taken up an arm in his life. But Israel has told the US that Darwish should > never be allowed into the country because they are afraid that his eloquence > will open up American eyes to the truth of what Israel has done. What does > it say of a government, a society, when it attempts to silence a > poet?????????????????????????????? > > As a gift, here is a poem by Darwish. > > The Prison Cell > by Mahmoud Darwish, trans. by Ben Bennani > > It is possible > It is possible at least sometimes. > It is possible especially now > To ride a horse > Inside a prison cell > And run away.. > > It is possible for prison walls, > To disappear, > For the cell to become a distant land > Without frontiers: > > -What did you do with the walls? > -I gave them back to the rocks. > -And what did you do with the ceiling? > -I turned it into a saddle. > -And your chain? > -I turned it into a pencil. > > The prison guard got angry. > He put an end to the dialogue. > He said he didn't care for poetry, > And bolted the door of my cell. > > He came back to see me > In the morning; > He shouted at me: > > -Where did all this water come from? > -I brought it from the Nile. > -And the trees? > -From the orchards of Damascus. > -And the music? > -From my heartbeat. > > The prison guard got mad: > He put an end to my dialogue. > He said he didn't like my poetry, > And bolted the door to my cell. > > But he returned in the evening: > > -Where did this moon come from? > -From the nights of Baghdad. > -And the wine? > -From the vineyards of Algiers. > -And this freedom? > -From the chain you tied me with last night. > > The prison guard grew so sad.. > He begged me to give him back > His freedom. > > Ruth Lepson wrote: > Whether or not Israel shd be invading Lebanon is an open & complicated > question, and every human life is valuable, & what is happening there is > heartbreaking. That doesn't mean, however, that Israel is imperialist. > Withdrawing the pre-war borders is not going to solve all the problems of > dealing w/ people who want to see Israel destroyed. You cd say that war has > not helped the Middle East; you could also say that Israel wd have been > destroyed by now had it not fought at certain moments of its history. > > > On 7/27/06 7:42 PM, "ALDON L NIELSEN" wrote: > >> I've actually had the experience of negotiating with somebody who thought > I >> should not exist, but that's another story for another day. >> >> When, exactly, has Israel "given up land"? let alone "more" -- They have >> withdrawn from land they occupied in war, following negotiations with the >> parties with whom they had been at war. They have recently withdrawn from > Gaza >> -- but they have also gone back in when it suited them in response to > attacks >> mounted from Gaza. Were they more vulnerable after the withdrawal from > Gaza >> than they were before? To speak of giving up land implies that it was > theirs >> to give up. >> >> The reasoning here is odd in the extreme. It seems to hold that, since > people >> who don't believe Israel should exist threaten to attack Israel, therefore >> Israel should annex lands they have occupied in war. It seems to argue > that >> to >> withdraw from occupied territories in itself makes Israel more vulnerable. >> And >> it would seem to propose that Israel has the unlimited right to creat > "buffer" >> zones where and as it chooses for its own protection, which buffer zones >> themselves could well require additional territorial buffering if Israel > still >> feels threatened. >> >> As I said to a previous correpondent, you may well feel that by destroying > the >> infrastructure of Lebanon, creating hundreds of thousands of refugees and >> killing hundreds, Israel becomes less vulnerable. Sounds to me more like > the >> reasoning that must go on in the heads of Hezbollah, who seem to think > that >> attacking civilians in Israel is good for their cause. Thanks to our >> government's wink and nod, we will have time to see if that belief holds > true. >> Nobody is going to stop Israel, so we will see if this strategy makes them >> less >> vulnerable in the long run. It certainly doesn't look to me like it's > worked >> to that effect in the past. >> >> >> >> On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 17:44:59, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: >> >>> In a message dated 07/27/06 4:17:36 PM, aln10@PSU.EDU writes: >>> >>> >>>> What is Israel to do? >>>> >>>> Return to its internationally recognized '67 borders. Defend itself > against >> >>>> any >>>> incursions, with the full support of the international community. >>>> >>> >>> To paraphrase Hobbes, the root of both all social contracts and wars is > fear. >>> Could someone explain to me how one negotiates with an adversary who > openly, >>> literally (not implicitly or subject to interpratation) tells you you > should >>> not exist. Can you imagine a party giving up more land and making itself > more >>> vulnerable, in the face of such a clearly enunciated threat? >>> >>> Murat >>> >>> >>> >> >> > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." >> --Emily Dickinson >> >> Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ >> >> Aldon L. Nielsen >> Kelly Professor of American Literature >> The Pennsylvania State University >> 116 Burrowes >> University Park, PA 16802-6200 >> >> (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 13:06:22 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: in light of the wikipedia content lately In-Reply-To: <002201c6b293$5f9bcae0$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm having one of those weird moments where i'm not sure which side of the joke i'm on. I like moments like that, so thanks Robin. Robin wrote: > From: "Flora Fair" > >> But at least that's productive. > > > Also wrong -- lines 13 ff in the Onion piece, that is, quoting: > > "At 750 years, the U.S. is by far the world's oldest surviving > democracy, and is certainly deserving of our recognition," Wales > said. > > Iceland is still a functioning democracy, and has been since before > 1000CE, which puts it at least 250 years ahead of the game. > > Depends, I suppose, on how you define democracy, but I can't think > off-hand of anything that qualifies USAmerica, that Iceland doesn't and > didn't have. First. Including too many damn lawyers in at the founding > of the state. > > (Incidentally, where did that 750 years come from? What special > happened in 1256?) > > Robin Hamilton > >> Halvard Johnson wrote: On Jul 28, 2006, at >> 9:30 AM, Flora Fair wrote: >> >>> "A kitten dies every time you send me a chain email." >> >> >> Not to mention every time you masturbate. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 13:46:48 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Flora Fair Subject: Re: in light of the wikipedia content lately In-Reply-To: <44CBBFBE.4090302@myuw.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sadly enough, the Onion is probably more "real" than my hometown paper. Jason Quackenbush wrote: I'm having one of those weird moments where i'm not sure which side of the joke i'm on. I like moments like that, so thanks Robin. Robin wrote: > From: "Flora Fair" > >> But at least that's productive. > > > Also wrong -- lines 13 ff in the Onion piece, that is, quoting: > > "At 750 years, the U.S. is by far the world's oldest surviving > democracy, and is certainly deserving of our recognition," Wales > said. > > Iceland is still a functioning democracy, and has been since before > 1000CE, which puts it at least 250 years ahead of the game. > > Depends, I suppose, on how you define democracy, but I can't think > off-hand of anything that qualifies USAmerica, that Iceland doesn't and > didn't have. First. Including too many damn lawyers in at the founding > of the state. > > (Incidentally, where did that 750 years come from? What special > happened in 1256?) > > Robin Hamilton > >> Halvard Johnson wrote: On Jul 28, 2006, at >> 9:30 AM, Flora Fair wrote: >> >>> "A kitten dies every time you send me a chain email." >> >> >> Not to mention every time you masturbate. "A kitten dies every time you send me a chain email." ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 15:03:37 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Vipassana Meditation Thought for the Day In-Reply-To: <000c01c6b2a3$d55f16f0$6401a8c0@deborahhome> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Why drop in some info we all had in sixth grade? gb On 28-Jul-06, at 5:13 PM, Minky Starshine wrote: > Zen koans are riddles used by masters to confuse and disorient students > as a means of awakening. > > Example: > > What is the sound of one hand clapping? > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] > On Behalf Of Anna Vitale > Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 2:27 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Vipassana Meditation Thought for the Day > > They're not mutually exclusive. > > You can do both. > > Anna Vitale > > On 7/28/06, George Bowering wrote: >> >> On 28-Jul-06, at 8:40 AM, Gabriel Gudding wrote: >> >>> This morning, the first thing I did was to sit for an hour. I have >>> done that regularly for twenty years, and have spent many evenings, >>> days and weeks doing the same. >>> >>> I would like to know myself. >> >> Instead of that, I read books. >> I would like to know something other than myself. >> >> >> >>> George H. Bowering >> Servant of Terpsichore >> > > Mr. G. Bowering, Misses the open faces of youth in socialist Europe, 1966. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 15:06:00 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: For Ruth Lepson and anyone who cares: A Palestinian/Lebanese poet responds In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 29-Jul-06, at 5:41 AM, Ruth Lepson wrote: > Most Israelis want peace. > > Every day now I speak to my Israelis cousins, who are in the small > minority > against the Israeli invasion of Lebanon, Excuse me, but here where I live that is called a contradiction. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 15:36:51 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: MiPOesias Reading @ Stain Bar - Williamsburg, Brooklyn In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Here is the latest reading.....from Brooklyn, NY. http://miporeadingseries.blogspot.com/2006/07/readers-from-july-28th.html If you are a MiPOesias/OCHO contributor and would like to read, contact Amy King and say something will ya? See you online.... Didi Menendez and Amy King Menendez/King Publishing MiPOesias Magazine www.mipoesias.com --------------------------------- See the all-new, redesigned Yahoo.com. Check it out. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 15:36:53 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: MiPOesias Reading @ Stain Bar - Williamsburg, Brooklyn In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Here is the latest reading.....from Brooklyn, NY. http://miporeadingseries.blogspot.com/2006/07/readers-from-july-28th.html If you are a MiPOesias/OCHO contributor and would like to read, contact Amy King and say something will ya? See you online.... Didi Menendez and Amy King Menendez/King Publishing MiPOesias Magazine www.mipoesias.com --------------------------------- Groups are talking. We´re listening. Check out the handy changes to Yahoo! Groups. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 20:39:01 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: The Passing of a Legend: Louise Bennett 1919-2007 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I appreciate Tisa Bryant's notice about Louise Bennett, one of the great 20th century poets of the Americas. I have posted a tribute to Bennett at http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/bernstein/blog/ Charles Bernstein ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 18:57:40 -0700 Reply-To: kalamu@aol.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: PUB: torch call for submissions MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>PUB: torch call for submissions =============================== Torch: poetry, prose, and short stories by African American Women www.torchpoetry.org Torch was established to promote the work of African American women. We provide a place to celebrate contemporary poetry, prose, and short stories by experienced and emerging writers alike. We prefer our contributors to take risks and offer a diverse body of work that examines and challenges preconceived notions regarding race, ethnicity, gender roles, and identity. Within Torch, we offer a special section called 'Flame' that features an interview, biography, and work sample by an established writer as well as an introduction to their 'Spark,' an emerging writer who inspires them and adds to the boundless voice of creative writing by Black women. We welcome submissions for our Fall 06 issue. Please visit www.torchpoetry.org for submission guidelines and to signup the free e-newsletter. -- Stay Strong -"I testified/My mama cried/Black people died/When the other man lied" -- chuck d "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as) \ "We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit to a process of humiliation." --patrick o'neil \ "...we have the responsibility to make no deal with the oppressor" --harry belafonte \ "...in time, we will look back to this age with incredulity and amazement -- and victories like Hamas in Israel will be the *best* of our memories." -- mumia abu jamal -- "what state? what union?" "...these people generate wars in Asia and Africa,...These are the people who, in the last century, caused several devastating wars. In one world war alone, they killed over 60 million people.... In the near future, Allah willing, we will put you to trial in courts established by the peoples...."-- mahmoud ahmadinejad \ http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a047braithwaite.php http://cleveland.indymedia.org/uploads/2006/07/olivet___h.a.t.s_in_the_square___loud_ruffa1b.mp3 \ http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7255.php \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date \ http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/en_fins__clichy-sous_bois_amixquiet-_lordpatch_the_giver__.mp3 \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ \ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 21:48:14 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Wallace Subject: civilians MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hey Al: Sometimes I'm tempted to say "It's always worse than everybody thinks." Dershowitz' attempt to justify the killing of civilians is shocking at least partly because no American has tried to justify it in quite this way before, at least that I'm aware of--perhaps there are equivalents earlier. I.e. talk about "collateral damage"? But the conscious killing of civlians as an essential element of military strategy has been more or less a standard practice of war for some centuries at least. I'm no expert, but is Sherman's march across Georgia the first U.S. instance of war by massive destruction of civilian life? And surely the practice goes back much further in other contexts, although perhaps less totally? "Less totality"? Nah, I doubt it. Was Mark Weiss saying something about the Romans regarding this? What's fascinating about the obscentify of Dershowitz on some level is his attempt to explain. To offer "philisophical" justifications. Historically, most nations have realized that it's easier not even to bother. If, that is, they bothered to consider it relevant. I know it's stupid to be optimistic, believe me, but the attempt strikes me at least partly as a desperate attempt to defend what too many people already see as indefensible. But too many Americans? Hell if I know. Mark The guy who did this probably had an idea similar to Dershowitz's, probably thinks that civilians are somehow complicit in things with which they have nothing to do. Whatever our other disagreements, I hope we can all join in the struggle against this kind of thinking. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 21:57:58 -0700 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Subject: Re: For Ruth Lepson and anyone who cares: A Palestinian/Lebanese poet responds In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >> Most Israelis want peace. >> >> Every day now I speak to my Israelis cousins, who are in the small minority >> against the Israeli invasion of Lebanon, >Excuse me, but here where I live that is called a contradiction. Here where I live that is called waffling. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 01:01:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Minky Starshine Subject: Re: Vipassana Meditation Thought for the Day In-Reply-To: <163DB4BE-1F4E-11DB-A964-000A95C34F08@sfu.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In my response to George Bowering "offline", I accidentally misspelled humorous. And to think, in sixth grade, while I was not privy to information on the koan (but asked in Sunday school why buddhists would go to hell when they'd heard neither hide nor hair of JESUS CHRIST), I did win many a spelling bee. Oh for the love of language. My heartfelt thanks to those of you who offer ways to negotiate bleakness, sometimes terrible and difficult, through poetic sensibilities and kindness--including Gabriel Gudding/your original post from Fleischman. <> Tonight when I grow up, I want to be Wu Ch'Eng-En's monkey king... ("zen like stillness is all the go") Regards, Deborah Poe <> The Monkey King was returned to the Crystal Palace by the heavenly troops and tied to a post.The Jade Emperor ordered Wu-k'ung cut into pieces.But neither sword nor spear could hurt even a hair on Wu-k'ung's body. The gods were at a loss at what to do.Lao-chun had a suggestion, "Since he has eaten the fruit and elixir of immortality and has drunken the magic wine, he cannot be easily killed.We had better put him into the furnace and when his body is burned, the elixirs he has eaten will be left at the bottoms. Lao-chun dragged Wu-k'ung to the Tou Shuai Palace.He pushed Wu-k'ung into the furnace and order the furnace keepers to fan the flames with great force. Wu-k'ung was kept in the furnace for forty-nine days.Lao-chun was just about to open the furnace when the Monkey King leaped out.He had survived by standing in the draft of the fans.The flames never caught him, but the smoke had turned his eyes red. The furnace keepers tried desperately to hold back Wu-k'ung, but he knocked them down.Then Wu-k'ung struck down lao-chun. The Monkey King took the enchanted staff from his ear and stretched it wide.Then he made such a great disturbance in heaven that neither the gods nor the four great heavenly kings dared to fight with him again. Wu-k'ung could not be stopped.Cheng Chun the on-duty god, nervously dispatched thirty-six generals to besiege him.The Jade Emperor hurriedly sent for Buddha Buddha left the Lei Yin Temple and went to the Heavenly Palace accompanied by two gods.Buddha used his great powers to stop Wu-k'ung's attack.The Monkey King angrily cried, "Who dares to stop me?" From Journey to the West, by Wu Ch'eng-en -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of George Bowering Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 6:04 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Vipassana Meditation Thought for the Day Why drop in some info we all had in sixth grade? gb On 28-Jul-06, at 5:13 PM, Minky Starshine wrote: > Zen koans are riddles used by masters to confuse and disorient students > as a means of awakening. > > Example: > > What is the sound of one hand clapping? > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] > On Behalf Of Anna Vitale > Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 2:27 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Vipassana Meditation Thought for the Day > > They're not mutually exclusive. > > You can do both. > > Anna Vitale > > On 7/28/06, George Bowering wrote: >> >> On 28-Jul-06, at 8:40 AM, Gabriel Gudding wrote: >> >>> This morning, the first thing I did was to sit for an hour. I have >>> done that regularly for twenty years, and have spent many evenings, >>> days and weeks doing the same. >>> >>> I would like to know myself. >> >> Instead of that, I read books. >> I would like to know something other than myself. >> >> >> >>> George H. Bowering >> Servant of Terpsichore >> > > Mr. G. Bowering, Misses the open faces of youth in socialist Europe, 1966. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 00:57:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: FOR RUTH LEPSON: ADDRESS THE ARAB MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit let's forget this squabbling both sides are wrong guys enough persecution of the bad ole israelis sadly and horrificly neither warmongerin fools care about civilians of all ages they of course should just meet at the border and wipe out eachother but enough onesided blaming here pleas yer all grown ups you're all supposed to be left sided and against war no matter who throws the first or last stone it's about humanity not about jewbating and arab hating sorry for my naivite (sp) but give it up talk is cheap all this bullshit and how bout those cute hizbullshit boys sayin after the kidnappin fact they didn't expect israel to go this far almost a bad bush jike kill condie i say betraying all her people get over yerselves everyone ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 00:50:10 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: Vipassana Meditation Thought for the Day MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit what is the sound of one bomb dropping in the 60's i did that one hand clap stuff a n old brooklyn joke i only sit to write e mails ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 02:15:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: civilians In-Reply-To: <20060730044814.46430.qmail@web60019.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 12:48 AM 7/30/2006, you wrote: >Hey Al: > >Sometimes I'm tempted to say "It's always worse than >everybody thinks." > >Dershowitz' attempt to justify the killing of >civilians is shocking at least partly because no >American has tried to justify it in quite this way >before, at least that I'm aware of--perhaps there are >equivalents earlier. I.e. talk about "collateral >damage"? > >But the conscious killing of civlians as an essential >element of military strategy has been more or less a >standard practice of war for some centuries at least. >I'm no expert, but is Sherman's march across Georgia >the first U.S. instance of war by massive destruction >of civilian life? Try the Indian wars of the 17th century. Both sides killed women and children, the English rather more effectively. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 07:00:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Lundwall Subject: melancholia's tremulous dreadlocks issue 1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed http://www.melancholiastremulousdreadlocks.com the first ever issue of melancholia's tremulous dreadlocks is online now... poets featured in this edition of mtd: mIEKAL aND! John M. Bennett! Marcia Arrieta! Petra Backonja! Anny Ballardini! Bob Marcacci! Robert Chrysler! kari edwards! Alex Gildzen! Johannes Goransson! Richard Denner! Jeff Harrison! Chris Toll! Eileen Tabios! Lina Ramona Vitkauskas! please visit: http://www.melancholiastremulousdreadlocks.com/ cheers! andrew lundwall _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 07:00:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Lundwall Subject: melancholia's tremulous dreadlocks issue 1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed http://www.melancholiastremulousdreadlocks.com the first ever issue of melancholia's tremulous dreadlocks is online now... poets featured in this edition of mtd: mIEKAL aND! John M. Bennett! Marcia Arrieta! Petra Backonja! Anny Ballardini! Bob Marcacci! Robert Chrysler! kari edwards! Alex Gildzen! Johannes Goransson! Richard Denner! Jeff Harrison! Chris Toll! Eileen Tabios! Lina Ramona Vitkauskas! please visit: http://www.melancholiastremulousdreadlocks.com/ cheers! andrew lundwall _________________________________________________________________ On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 09:17:17 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Open Letter from American Jews In-Reply-To: <002b01c6b318$2486aa30$5f01a8c0@inspiration> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit To Paul & other writing about Israel & Lebanon, It was a mistake, addressing my message to Aryanil--I received his email & yours together & I wrote down the wrong name tho my email was clearly intended to be addressed to you. Also, I shd not have compared the situation to others in the world, at this moment. And I am sorry for the loss of innocent life today and always. As my email was hurtful to you yours was to me. Yesterday in the Boston Globe Cornel West wrote in an editorial: 'Is it possible for Jews to reject the ugly Israeli subjugation of Palestinians, the plight of their prisoners in Israeli jails (especially the women and children), or the anti-Arab bigotry in Israeli society without being demonized a self-hating Jew? Is it possible for Arabs to reject the pernicious rhetoric of pushing Israel into the sea, the barbaric practice of suicide bombers and anti-Jewish bigotry in Arab communities without being demeaned?' When I say most Israelis want peace I mean long-term. Sometimes it seems as if the situation is insoluble or may take decades to come to. Let's hope not. Ruth On 7/29/06 10:06 AM, "Aryanil Mukherjee" wrote: > maria > > hoping it makes a little difference to innocent jewish and lebanese citizens > i'll do my needful. > > aryanil > ----- Original Message - > ---- > From: "Maria Damon" > To: > Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 9:33 AM > Subject: Fwd: Open Letter from American Jews > > >> dear ruth, dear aryanil, dear everyone: >> this is quite painful for all of us. here is a step that some of us at >> least can take if we want to. it is a petition. although it's sponsored >> by Jewish Voice for Peace i don't think you have to be Jewish to sign. >> >> metta, >> md >> >> >>> Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 07:38:14 -0400 >>> From: Alan Sokal >>> To: Maria Damon >>> Subject: Open Letter from American Jews >>> >>> Dear signers and supporters of the "Open Letter from American Jews": >>> >>> In this sad moment for peace in the Middle East, we would like to urge >>> your urgent support of a petition organized by Jewish Voice for Peace, >>> which in our view is extremely balanced, fair and rational. >>> You can sign on-line at >>> http://www.democracyinaction.org/dia/organizationsORG/jvfp/petition.jsp?peti >>> tion_KEY=323 >>> >>> The full text of the petition is copied below. >>> >>> Much useful further information about the current conflict can be found >>> on the JVfP website at http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/ >>> >>> In solidarity, >>> >>> Alan Sokal >>> Bruce Robbins >>> >>> >>> *** TEXT OF JEWISH VOICE FOR PEACE CALL TO ACTION *** >>> >>> On July 6, in a full-page ad in The Times of London, 300 British Jews >>> cried out against the collective punishment of the people of Gaza with >>> the anguished question, "What Is Israel Doing?" Several weeks later, >>> as the Middle East sinks deeper into chaos, that question is ever more >>> urgent. >>> >>> Hezbollah's attack on an IDF outpost was a violation of international law. >>> And after Israel attacked Lebanon, Hezbollah fired missiles at Israeli >>> cities, killing and injuring civilians. This is not morally acceptable, >>> whatever the provocation. >>> >>> But Israel's response -- an explosion of violence and collective >>> punishment directed against airports, bridges and populated neighborhoods >>> of Lebanon -- is an even greater crime. And now Lebanon, like Gaza, >>> is on the brink of a humanitarian disaster. >>> >>> In the face of so much violence and suffering, the United States' vetoes >>> of UN Security Council resolutions calling for a cease fire are immoral >>> and irresponsible. >>> >>> We call upon U.S. Jews and others to join us in support of Israeli >>> peace groups who write: "The only way to guarantee a different future >>> of peace and security is by ending the occupation and establishing a >>> relationship of equality and respect between Israelis and Palestinians >>> and between Israelis and the neighboring nations." >>> >>> We call upon the U.S. government to use its influence with Israel >>> to stop the collective punishment of the people of Gaza and Lebanon; >>> to work with the international community to impose a cease-fire and >>> prevent any further loss of civilian life; and to work for the >>> immediate start of direct, good-faith negotiations. >>> >>> Israel's ongoing occupation of Palestinian territories and massive >>> human rights abuses against the Palestinian and Lebanese peoples are >>> opposed by many Jews in Israel, the U.S., and throughout the world. >>> >>> Attacks on civilians will not bring peace, security or justice to >>> Palestinians, Israelis, or Jews anywhere. >> >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/403 - Release Date: 7/28/2006 >> >> ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 15:35:10 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: In RI MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline *In RI* by Henry Gould, a book-length poem on early New England history and the founding of Rhode Island is available in a bilingual edition (English-Italian), translation by Anny Ballardini at: http://www.lulu.com/content/377598 Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 10:05:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lisa Jarnot Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 28 Jul 2006 to 29 Jul 2006 (#2006-211) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hi List People, since this is a list for writers, I thought I'd mention a program set up by the Canadian Coalition Against the Death Penalty-- http://ccadp.org/ -- if you go to their website you can get information about prisoners on death row who are looking for pen pals. A lot of the prisoners are interested in poetry and literature, but maybe more importantly they just need someone to correspond with. Best, Lisa Jarnot ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 09:35:37 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: call for work MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: printed anthology of online writing seeks submissions As a result of a generous grant from Indiana State University, Snow*Vigate Press will be publishing a printed anthology of the best on-line writing over the past ten years hopefully to be released in August 2007. We would like to include around 3 pieces from each writer appearing in the book. If you would like to nominate your own on-line work or work from others, please follow these guidelines: Paste the URLs of 3-7 pieces of each writer in the body of an email. You may nominate up to 3 writers. In the subject line of your email, please type "Submission to Snow*Vigate Anthology." Send all submissions to dougmartin832(at)yahoo.com (replace (at) with @). Work from any on-line site is acceptable, as long as it has not been published in printed form. Editors of on-line journals are encouraged to submit work from their sites. The submission period will be from August 1, 2006 to September 1, 2006. If you have any questions, please contact Doug Martin at dougmartin832(at)yahoo.com (replace (at) with @) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 13:07:08 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Deborah Reich Subject: Possible NYC Rental MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NYC-born Bay Area Composer seeks room or apartment for live & work from February to April of 2007. Manhattan preferred, Brooklyn also possible. Will take care of cats/plants, very reliable and respectful of your property, and also quiet. Pelase email _daniel@danieldavidfeinsmith.com_ (mailto:daniel@danieldavidfeinsmith.com) or call 510.428.2220. Thank you. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 10:14:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: bflo ny fringe fest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://infringebuffalo.org/wiki/pmwiki.php/IF06/Performances =20 Festival calendar: Day One=20 Thursday, July = 27=20 Infringement Kick-off Party!=20 Day Two=20 Friday, July 28 = =20 =20 Day Three=20 Saturday, July = 29=20 =20 Day Four=20 Sunday, July 30 = =20 =20 Day Five=20 Monday, July 31 = =20 =20 Day Six=20 Tuesday, = August 1 =20 Day Seven=20 Wednesday, = August 2=20 =20 Day Eight=20 Thursday, = August 3=20 =20 Day Nine=20 Friday, August = 4=20 Gusto = at the Gallery=20 Day Ten=20 Saturday, = August 5=20 =20 Day Eleven=20 Sunday, August = 6=20 Closing = Night Party!=20 =20 =20 =20 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 13:42:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Doping Scandal Rocks Poetry Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable **Doping Scandal Rocks Poetry** by Mike Freakman July 30, New York (AHP2 News Service) =96 The=20 poetry world has been rocked by recent=20 revelations that several of the most prestigious=20 national poetry contest winners in 2005 and 2006=20 were written with the aid of performance-enhancing drugs. =93Over the past decade, poetry contests have=20 emphasized our openness to all participants, with=20 the promise that each manuscript is judged on its=20 merits along,=94 said Guadalupe Maximino Glumstein,=20 the Chancellor of the International Poetry=20 Contests Federation (IPCF). =93Doping is a huge=20 step backward in our efforts, since it gives an=20 unfair competitive advantage to those who are=20 willing to do anything, including risk long-term=20 damage to their bodies and minds, in order to write the best poem.=94 The IPCF advocates testing for=20 performance-enhancing drugs as a prerequisite for=20 national book publications, slam competitions, as=20 well a poetry contests. Poets that violate IPCF=20 rules would be ineligible for prizes or=20 anthologies for penalty periods of one year for=20 first offenders to eternity for repeat offenders.=20 Poets that comply with IPCF guidelines get a=20 sticker to affix to all their publications=20 certifying their poems as doping-free. =93Unless we want poetry to sink back into the=20 margins of society, we must assure readers that=20 poets produce their work with their own sweat=20 and imagination. When we teach a poem to a young=20 person in a school setting, to inspire and=20 instruct, we need to be able to say that anyone=20 can aspire to write a poem as good as this. We=20 can=92t afford to send a message that doping is=20 necessary to write the best poems. We have to have an even playing field.=94 Several leading poets were asked to comment on=20 the scandal but refused to talk on the record,=20 for fear of provoking IPCF investigations of=20 their conduct. Unlike the use of doping in track=20 and cycling, poets often use=20 poetry-performance-enhancing drugs to cause=20 temporary physical and mental impairment or=20 paralysis, in order to hyperactivate their=20 imaginative capacities. The practice has been=20 shown to cause a number of long-term physical and mental maladies. But 11-year old Daisy Threadwhistle of=20 Incontrobrogliaria, New Jersey, was eager to=20 speak on the record. Ms. Threadwhistle said she=20 was very disappointed when a poem from her school=20 reader was removed when its author tested=20 positive for performance-enhancing drugs. =93 =91The=20 Moon Is My Revenge, Venus My Soldier of=20 Midnight=92 =94 was my favorite poem this year. I=20 feel cheated. I don=92t think I want to read any more poems.=94 In early 2006, IPCF introduced a battery of blood=20 and psychological tests to detect poetic doping.=20 An IPCF study group is now investigating whether=20 the use of certain computer programs and search=20 engines also should be banned from poetry. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 11:16:53 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Doping Scandal Rocks Poetry In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20060730133645.029fe140@english.upenn.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable I remember teaching a poetry workshop at the San Francisco Art Institute circa 1972 when a student quit in disgust with the argument/protest that reading and/or writing poetry was only half of what you could get on a good combination of drugs, in fact, the use of words diminished the whole experience. Furthermore if I could not get what I needed 'in color', I was = - in any case - missing the whole point of art. I and that kid (if he is still alive) are probably in the same or related meditation group now! At least for me - and no doubt Gabriel G. - turning off the chatter-box, silence before the revelations, if they be, of making poetry is good for my processes. Which is not to negate other means - concentrated reading (As George B suggests), walking, etc., etc. among them. Stephen V http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ > **Doping Scandal Rocks Poetry** >=20 > by Mike Freakman >=20 > July 30, New York (AHP2 News Service) =96 The > poetry world has been rocked by recent > revelations that several of the most prestigious > national poetry contest winners in 2005 and 2006 > were written with the aid of performance-enhancing drugs. >=20 > =93Over the past decade, poetry contests have > emphasized our openness to all participants, with > the promise that each manuscript is judged on its > merits along,=94 said Guadalupe Maximino Glumstein, > the Chancellor of the International Poetry > Contests Federation (IPCF). =93Doping is a huge > step backward in our efforts, since it gives an > unfair competitive advantage to those who are > willing to do anything, including risk long-term > damage to their bodies and minds, in order to write the best poem.=94 >=20 > The IPCF advocates testing for > performance-enhancing drugs as a prerequisite for > national book publications, slam competitions, as > well a poetry contests. Poets that violate IPCF > rules would be ineligible for prizes or > anthologies for penalty periods of one year for > first offenders to eternity for repeat offenders. > Poets that comply with IPCF guidelines get a > sticker to affix to all their publications > certifying their poems as doping-free. >=20 > =93Unless we want poetry to sink back into the > margins of society, we must assure readers that > poets produce their work with their own sweat > and imagination. When we teach a poem to a young > person in a school setting, to inspire and > instruct, we need to be able to say that anyone > can aspire to write a poem as good as this. We > can=92t afford to send a message that doping is > necessary to write the best poems. We have to have an even playing field.= =94 >=20 > Several leading poets were asked to comment on > the scandal but refused to talk on the record, > for fear of provoking IPCF investigations of > their conduct. Unlike the use of doping in track > and cycling, poets often use > poetry-performance-enhancing drugs to cause > temporary physical and mental impairment or > paralysis, in order to hyperactivate their > imaginative capacities. The practice has been > shown to cause a number of long-term physical and mental maladies. >=20 > But 11-year old Daisy Threadwhistle of > Incontrobrogliaria, New Jersey, was eager to > speak on the record. Ms. Threadwhistle said she > was very disappointed when a poem from her school > reader was removed when its author tested > positive for performance-enhancing drugs. =93 =91The > Moon Is My Revenge, Venus My Soldier of > Midnight=92 =94 was my favorite poem this year. I > feel cheated. I don=92t think I want to read any more poems.=94 > In early 2006, IPCF introduced a battery of blood > and psychological tests to detect poetic doping. > An IPCF study group is now investigating whether > the use of certain computer programs and search > engines also should be banned from poetry. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 04:37:06 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Subject: Re: Doping Scandal Rocks Poetry Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for this Onion-esque bit; I can't remember if I ever posted the link to my "J.T. Le Roy: A Literary Steroid Scandal" blog piece earlier this year--- though it's a different style, it plays with the same analogy-- but it'd be fun (or maybe tedious) to pursue the analogy further because, well, winning a poetry contest (or selling a lot of books of a memoir) isn't really analogous to, say, hitting 70 homers in a year. It's probably more like being voted into the all-star game by fans (and yes one's performance has something to do with that, but there still ain't much agreed criteria for what constitutes a "homer" or "bloop single" in poetry-- and that could be okay....it probably has to be...)... thanks again, Chris ---------- >From: Charles Bernstein >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Doping Scandal Rocks Poetry >Date: Sun, Jul 30, 2006, 10:42 AM > > **Doping Scandal Rocks Poetry** > > by Mike Freakman > > July 30, New York (AHP2 News Service) =96 The > poetry world has been rocked by recent > revelations that several of the most prestigious > national poetry contest winners in 2005 and 2006 > were written with the aid of performance-enhancing drugs. > > =93Over the past decade, poetry contests have > emphasized our openness to all participants, with > the promise that each manuscript is judged on its > merits along,=94 said Guadalupe Maximino Glumstein, > the Chancellor of the International Poetry > Contests Federation (IPCF). =93Doping is a huge > step backward in our efforts, since it gives an > unfair competitive advantage to those who are > willing to do anything, including risk long-term > damage to their bodies and minds, in order to write the best poem.=94 > > The IPCF advocates testing for > performance-enhancing drugs as a prerequisite for > national book publications, slam competitions, as > well a poetry contests. Poets that violate IPCF > rules would be ineligible for prizes or > anthologies for penalty periods of one year for > first offenders to eternity for repeat offenders. > Poets that comply with IPCF guidelines get a > sticker to affix to all their publications > certifying their poems as doping-free. > > =93Unless we want poetry to sink back into the > margins of society, we must assure readers that > poets produce their work with their own sweat > and imagination. When we teach a poem to a young > person in a school setting, to inspire and > instruct, we need to be able to say that anyone > can aspire to write a poem as good as this. We > can=92t afford to send a message that doping is > necessary to write the best poems. We have to have an even playing field.= =94 > > Several leading poets were asked to comment on > the scandal but refused to talk on the record, > for fear of provoking IPCF investigations of > their conduct. Unlike the use of doping in track > and cycling, poets often use > poetry-performance-enhancing drugs to cause > temporary physical and mental impairment or > paralysis, in order to hyperactivate their > imaginative capacities. The practice has been > shown to cause a number of long-term physical and mental maladies. > > But 11-year old Daisy Threadwhistle of > Incontrobrogliaria, New Jersey, was eager to > speak on the record. Ms. Threadwhistle said she > was very disappointed when a poem from her school > reader was removed when its author tested > positive for performance-enhancing drugs. =93 =91The > Moon Is My Revenge, Venus My Soldier of > Midnight=92 =94 was my favorite poem this year. I > feel cheated. I don=92t think I want to read any more poems.=94 > In early 2006, IPCF introduced a battery of blood > and psychological tests to detect poetic doping. > An IPCF study group is now investigating whether > the use of certain computer programs and search > engines also should be banned from poetry. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 14:15:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tb2h Subject: NYTBR fluffier Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit With the NYTBR getting fluffier and stylish (and obsessed about food) day by day what does one readd to keep up with new books these days? tom bell ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 12:59:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Paul Catafago Subject: Poor Poor Ruth In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ruth Lepson, I am sickened by your words, sickened by the way you now twist things around to make yourself a victim simply because I was angered that you did not take care enough to see who I was, that I am a human being and I should be responded to accordingly. Oh you addressing Aryanil Mukherjee was a simple mistake, I guess like collateral damage. If you were sincere, you would have back channeled me, written me a personal email instead of airing this out on the list and again trying to appear as a victim, of course taking another opportunity to defend the state of Israel. You twist everything around to serve your dual purpose of 1) defending Israel 2) having people think you are a victim. I think in your heart of hearts, you would be really happy if every non-Jew would leave the state of Israel, as well as the occupied territories of Gaza and the West Bank. Now your liberal sensibilities may not prefer the actual Israeli policies of expulsions, house demolitions, land theft, executions, etc. But if that's what it takes to make Palestinians disappear from Greater Israel, so be it. I imagine you got other emails concerning your posts. So now you quote the well-known Cornel West to advance your cause. You deftly realize that West is very big amongst progressives. If you really believed that the occupation should end, that Israel should stop subjugating Palestinians in their apartheid regime, you would have said so before. The fact is you are acting as a propogandist, no better than the people at Campus Watch. Your whole agenda was defending Israel. Even in the Cornel West quote, there is a mention of Arabs wanting to push the Jews into the sea. PLEASE. As I said, I am a semite and I don't have to prove myself to anyone about being pro or anti anything, I were anti-Semitic, I would be anti-myself. So I find it offensive (and actually hackneyed in terms of propoganda) to keep repeating that Arabs want to push the Jews into the Sea. In the end, as I said to someone else, I have suffered some emotional trauma because of the situations in Palestine and Lebanon, and it has been exacerbated dealing with your words. The way you twist it, we should now all feel bad for poor poor Ruth because she received a few angry emails. The trials and tribulations of my family members displaced by your beloved and idyllic state of Israel are less important than the mental anguish suffered by poor poor Ruth. I did some research on you: I see you have some sort of reputation as a feminist. In your work advocating for women, does that ever include Palestinian women and how their rights and lives are daily destroyed by Israel? There is no equity here: there is no Cornel West quote that fairly chides both Palestinians/Lebanese and Israels/Jews. The fact is that Israel has power and Palestinians and Lebanese have been victims of that power, allowed to run wild by Israel's sponsor, the United States. I think in the end you should stop your posts defending Israel at least in this venue because you really are not going to change minds here and I think the whole thing has veered away from Poetics (by the way you did not even respond to my gift of the Darwish poem!!!!). So I will end with these words- I will legitimize this post for Poetics and give you one last gift, Ruthie: another poem by Mahmoud Darwish, oft persecuted, imprisoned and exiled by Israel. Enjoy!!!!! Paul Catafago IDENTITY CARD by Mahmoud Darwish, 1964 Write Down! I am an Arab And my identity card is fifty thousand I have eight children And the ninth is coming after a summer Will you be angry? Write Down! I am an Arab Employed with fellow workers at a quarry I have eight children I get them bread Garments and books from the rocks.. I do not supplicate charity at your doors Nor do I belittle myself at the footsteps of your chamber So will you be angry? Wrie Down! I am an Arab I have a name without a title Patient in a country Where people are enraged My roots Were entrenched before the birth of time And before the opening of the eras Before the pines, and the olive trees And before the grass grew My father.. descends from the family of the plow Not from a privileged class And my grandfather..was a farmer Neither well-bred, nor well-born! Teaches me the pride of the sun Before teaching me how to read And my house is like a watchman's hut Made of branches and cane Are you satisfied with my status? I have a name without a title! Write Down! I am an Arab You have stolen the orchards of my ancestors And the land which I cultivated Along with my children And you left nothing for us Except for these rocks.. So will the State take them As it has been said?! Therefore! Write Down on the top of the first page: I do not hate people Nor do I encroach But if I become hungry The usurper's flesh will be my food Beware.. Beware.. Of my hunger And my anger! Ruth Lepson wrote: To Paul & other writing about Israel & Lebanon, It was a mistake, addressing my message to Aryanil--I received his email & yours together & I wrote down the wrong name tho my email was clearly intended to be addressed to you. Also, I shd not have compared the situation to others in the world, at this moment. And I am sorry for the loss of innocent life today and always. As my email was hurtful to you yours was to me. Yesterday in the Boston Globe Cornel West wrote in an editorial: 'Is it possible for Jews to reject the ugly Israeli subjugation of Palestinians, the plight of their prisoners in Israeli jails (especially the women and children), or the anti-Arab bigotry in Israeli society without being demonized a self-hating Jew? Is it possible for Arabs to reject the pernicious rhetoric of pushing Israel into the sea, the barbaric practice of suicide bombers and anti-Jewish bigotry in Arab communities without being demeaned?' When I say most Israelis want peace I mean long-term. Sometimes it seems as if the situation is insoluble or may take decades to come to. Let's hope not. Ruth On 7/29/06 10:06 AM, "Aryanil Mukherjee" wrote: > maria > > hoping it makes a little difference to innocent jewish and lebanese citizens > i'll do my needful. > > aryanil > ----- Original Message - > ---- > From: "Maria Damon" > To: > Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 9:33 AM > Subject: Fwd: Open Letter from American Jews > > >> dear ruth, dear aryanil, dear everyone: >> this is quite painful for all of us. here is a step that some of us at >> least can take if we want to. it is a petition. although it's sponsored >> by Jewish Voice for Peace i don't think you have to be Jewish to sign. >> >> metta, >> md >> >> >>> Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 07:38:14 -0400 >>> From: Alan Sokal >>> To: Maria Damon >>> Subject: Open Letter from American Jews >>> >>> Dear signers and supporters of the "Open Letter from American Jews": >>> >>> In this sad moment for peace in the Middle East, we would like to urge >>> your urgent support of a petition organized by Jewish Voice for Peace, >>> which in our view is extremely balanced, fair and rational. >>> You can sign on-line at >>> http://www.democracyinaction.org/dia/organizationsORG/jvfp/petition.jsp?peti >>> tion_KEY=323 >>> >>> The full text of the petition is copied below. >>> >>> Much useful further information about the current conflict can be found >>> on the JVfP website at http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/ >>> >>> In solidarity, >>> >>> Alan Sokal >>> Bruce Robbins >>> >>> >>> *** TEXT OF JEWISH VOICE FOR PEACE CALL TO ACTION *** >>> >>> On July 6, in a full-page ad in The Times of London, 300 British Jews >>> cried out against the collective punishment of the people of Gaza with >>> the anguished question, "What Is Israel Doing?" Several weeks later, >>> as the Middle East sinks deeper into chaos, that question is ever more >>> urgent. >>> >>> Hezbollah's attack on an IDF outpost was a violation of international law. >>> And after Israel attacked Lebanon, Hezbollah fired missiles at Israeli >>> cities, killing and injuring civilians. This is not morally acceptable, >>> whatever the provocation. >>> >>> But Israel's response -- an explosion of violence and collective >>> punishment directed against airports, bridges and populated neighborhoods >>> of Lebanon -- is an even greater crime. And now Lebanon, like Gaza, >>> is on the brink of a humanitarian disaster. >>> >>> In the face of so much violence and suffering, the United States' vetoes >>> of UN Security Council resolutions calling for a cease fire are immoral >>> and irresponsible. >>> >>> We call upon U.S. Jews and others to join us in support of Israeli >>> peace groups who write: "The only way to guarantee a different future >>> of peace and security is by ending the occupation and establishing a >>> relationship of equality and respect between Israelis and Palestinians >>> and between Israelis and the neighboring nations." >>> >>> We call upon the U.S. government to use its influence with Israel >>> to stop the collective punishment of the people of Gaza and Lebanon; >>> to work with the international community to impose a cease-fire and >>> prevent any further loss of civilian life; and to work for the >>> immediate start of direct, good-faith negotiations. >>> >>> Israel's ongoing occupation of Palestinian territories and massive >>> human rights abuses against the Palestinian and Lebanese peoples are >>> opposed by many Jews in Israel, the U.S., and throughout the world. >>> >>> Attacks on civilians will not bring peace, security or justice to >>> Palestinians, Israelis, or Jews anywhere. >> >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/403 - Release Date: 7/28/2006 >> >> ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 14:58:35 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nico Vassilakis Subject: Morton Feldman (play) in NYC Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MORT a solo play about Morton Feldman created by Kip Fagan and Nico Vassilakis directed by Kip Fagan performed by Nico Vassilakis music composed and performed by Sam Hillmer video design by Paul Willis stage managed by Debbie Friedman August 3-4 (Thursday & Friday), 8:30 p.m. HERE Arts Center's American Living Room Festival at 3LD Arts & Technology Center 80 Greenwich Street (at Rector) NYC $15 to buy tickets & show info https://www.smarttix.com/show.aspx?showCode=MOR12 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 15:11:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jennifer Karmin Subject: JOB: Links Hall, Chicago MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Links Hall (Chicago, IL) seeks qualified candidates for its new position of Managing Director. Links Hall encourages artistic innovation and public engagement by maintaining a facility and providing flexible programming for the research, development and presentation of new work in the performing arts. Links Hall has been Chicago’s intimate home for independent dance and performance as well as a vital community workspace and venue that supports artistic innovation since 1978. The Links Hall Performance Series supports local, national, and international artists in their development and in artistic exchange with local and national peers. http://www.linkshall.org The Managing Director supports all aspects of the organization's activities, ensures Links Hall’s administrative viability, coordinates programs and marketing, and contributes to the strategy and direction of the organization’s artistic programs. The position will have primary responsibility for maintaining operations and administrative systems, marketing activities (including website development and maintenance) and volunteer coordination. The Managing Director also provides active support for artist communications, partnership building, and fundraising activities. Responsibilities to include: coordination of administrative procedures, office administration, artists/events management, volunteer coordination, and marketing. The ideal candidate has 2–3 years of experience in arts administration, excellent organizational and communications skills, an understanding of the performing arts community, and the ability to work collaboratively with Links Hall’s Board, staff, volunteers, artists, and the media. Must be able to operate computers, telephones, and general office equipment. Must possess basic PC computer knowledge, proficiency with database management, MS Word/Excel, and familiarity with mass emailing systems. This is a full-time permanent position that includes irregular evening and weekend hours working at events. Please email cjmitchell @ linkshall.org for a copy of the job description. Candidates should email the following to CJ Mitchell, cjmitchell@linkshall.org: Ü A cover letter outlining your interest in and suitability for the job. Ü A resume including full contact information (mailing address, phone number and email). Ü Contact information for two references Please include text for all of the above in the body of the email - no attachments. No calls please. Links Hall is an equal opportunity/affirmative action employer. Salary is competitive and commensurate with experience; we expect to offer a salary in the range $28,000-$30,000. Deadline for applications: 5pm, August 31, 2006. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 17:44:45 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: An Account/ SoundEye Poetry Festival Comments: To: UK POETRY Comments: cc: "Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics"@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU, POETRYETC@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The Soundeye Poetry Festival - July 3 - 9 / An account http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 20:46:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: An Account/ SoundEye Poetry Festival In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" v cool sounding, bliss by bliss. i didn't know david lloyd, who's well-known in academia as a post-colonialist, was the same david lloyd i kept seeing mentioned on poetry lists. i love it when poets pop up everywhere. At 5:44 PM -0700 7/30/06, Stephen Vincent wrote: >The Soundeye Poetry Festival - July 3 - 9 / An account > >http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 20:24:36 -0700 Reply-To: ishaq1824@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: Speed, thrash, death: Alamo, B. C. MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit a story of a boy, black metal and jim his knife. Speed, thrash, death: Alamo, B. C. story by l y braithwaite illustrations by Krista E. McLean & max. a Plantation13 production available at: dark horse books 623 Johnson St. Victoria, BC Canada V8W 1M5 -- Stay Strong -"I testified/My mama cried/Black people died/When the other man lied" -- chuck d "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as) \ "We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit to a process of humiliation." --patrick o'neil \ "...we have the responsibility to make no deal with the oppressor" --harry belafonte \ "...in time, we will look back to this age with incredulity and amazement -- and victories like Hamas in Israel will be the *best* of our memories." -- mumia abu jamal -- "what state? what union?" "...these people generate wars in Asia and Africa,...These are the people who, in the last century, caused several devastating wars. In one world war alone, they killed over 60 million people.... In the near future, Allah willing, we will put you to trial in courts established by the peoples...."-- mahmoud ahmadinejad \ http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a047braithwaite.php http://cleveland.indymedia.org/uploads/2006/07/olivet___h.a.t.s_in_the_square___loud_ruffa1b.mp3 \ http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7255.php \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date \ http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/en_fins__clichy-sous_bois_amixquiet-_lordpatch_the_giver__.mp3 \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ \ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 09:14:51 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Recent Nomadics Blog Posts Comments: cc: Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics , Lucifer Poetics Group , BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Recent Nomadics Blog Posts at http://pjoris.blogspot.com: Vaneigem's Imaginary Journal "If You Haven't Left, You're Hezbollah" Waterfall, Benjamin, & C=E8pes How to Help in Lebanon Alcalay, Watten, Silliman Radial Carnival for Douglas Oliver apologies for crossposting Pierre =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism,since it is the merger of state and corporate power." =97 Benito Mussolini =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D Pierre Joris 244 Elm Street Albany NY 12202 home: 518 426 0433 cell: 518 225 7123 office: 518 442 40 85 Paris: 01 43 54 95 13 French cell: 06 75 43 57 10 email: joris@albany.edu http://pierrejoris.com Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 18:59:36 +1000 Reply-To: John Tranter Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Tranter Subject: "Jacket 30" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tighten your socks: Jacket 30 is now finalised: hundreds of pages of thrilling literature that will knock your socks off -- if you're unprepared! http://jacketmagazine.com/30/index.shtml Zukofsky - Chile - Flarf - etc. _____________________________________ Feature: Louis Zukofsky ***** Introduction by Michael Golston: The Louis Zukofsky Centennial Conference at Columbia University and Barnard College ***** Charles Bernstein: Introduction to Louis Zukofsky: Selected Poems, Am= erican Poets Project of the Library of America (2006) ***** H=E9l=E8ne Aji: Useless, Usable, Useful: Louis Zukofsky's American De= signs ***** Bruce Andrews: What's the Word: An Essay on Reading, for Louis Zukofs= ky's Centennial, words from his "'A' 1 - 24" and "Complete Short Poetry" ***** Rachel Blau DuPlessis: "A Test of Poetry" and Conviction ***** Robert Fitterman: 1-800-FLOWERS: Inventory as poetry in Louis Zukofsk= y's 80 Flowers,an essay in verse ***** Benjamin Friedlander: FOR ZUKOFSKY/100 ***** Robert Grenier: A letter to Peter Quartermain ***** Abigail Lang: The Remembering Words or "how zukofsky used words" ***** Bob Perelman: Zukofsky at 100: Zukofsky as a Body of Work ***** Peter Quartermain: Thinking with the Poem ***** Jerome Rothenberg: Louis Zukofsky: A Reminiscence ***** Steve Shoemaker: Modern Times: "Objectivist" Movies and Thinking Matt= er in Louis Zukofsky's Poems of the Thirties, Or, The Behavior of Objects i= n the Gas Age ***** Paul Stephens: Zukofsky, Aristotle, Objectivism, Biology ***** Beno=EEt Turquety: ' Our St. Matthew Passion:' Louis Zukofsky & Film ***** Tim Woods: Zukofsky at Columbia _____________________________________ Feature: Chile ***** Forrest Gander and Kent Johnson: "Ni Pena ni Miedo:" A Sentimental Education in Chile _____________________________________ Feature: The Romantic- Modern Lyric ***** Dale Smith: "The Romantic-Modern Lyric": Poetry for the Non-poet ***** Chris Stroffolino reviews "The Romantic-Modern Lyric" by Dale Smith ***** Dale Smith: A Measure of Poetry _____________________________________ Articles ***** David J. Alworth: Robert Fitterman's "Metropolis XXX" and the Politic= s of Appropriation ***** Edmund Hardy: Grass Anti-Epic: Charles Reznikoff's "Testimony" ***** James Keery: The Zone of Thermal Death (on Andrew Duncan's "The Failu= re of Conservatism in Modern British Poetry" Salt, 2003) ***** Marjorie Perloff: The Palm at the End of the Mind: Thomas Hines's Wil= shire, Ed Ruscha's Sunset, Robbert Flick's Pico ***** Eliot Weinberger: Niedecker/ Reznikoff _____________________________________ Reviews ***** Nicholas Birns: "Look Slimmer Instantly" by Jerome Sala ***** Nicholas Birns "A Question of Gravity" by Elizabeth Smither ***** Ryan Daley reviews "Also, With my Throat, I Shall Swallow Ten Thousan= d Swords," by Araki Yasusada et al. ***** Jennifer K Dick: "Anabranch" by Andrew Zawacki ***** Patrick F. Durgin: "Dancing on Main Street" by Lorenzo Thomas ***** T. Hibbard: "Haze" by Mark Wallace ***** T. Hibbard: The Endless Crossing: Michael Rothenberg and the ejournal= "Big Bridge" ***** Fred Johnston: "Because Why: Poems" by Sarah Fox ***** Tim Kahl: "My Devotion" by Clayton Eshleman ***** Daniel Kane: "Meteoric Flowers" by Elizabeth Willis ***** Jon Leon: "Vaudeville" by Allyssa Wolf ***** Greg McLaren: "James Stinks (and so does Chuck)" by Nick Riemer ***** John Most: "The Burial of the Count of Orgaz and Other Poems" by Pabl= o Picasso ***** Aram Saroyan: "Where X Marks the Spot" poems by Bill Zavatsky. ***** Dale Smith: "The Sweet Singer of Modernism & Other Art Writings 1985-= 2003" by Bill Berkson _____________________________________ Feature: Flarf ***** Gary Sullivan: Introduction ***** Anne Boyer: Three Poems: A Vindication of the Rights of Women / Mom's= Undiminished Lamb Jacket / Everything Nice Has a Crafted Satin Finish ***** Chickee Chickston: Three Poems: My Mary Oliver / Truckin' Poem / My K= angaroo ***** Jordan Davis: Three poems: On an 87 Ford Taurus Left Taillight / Poem= s About Me / Pablo Escobar Shopping T-Shirt ***** Katie Degentesh: Three poems: I Loved My Father / No One Cares Much W= hat Happens to You / I Sometimes Tease Animals ***** Benjamin Friedlander: Three Poems: Galang / Why Do Jews Reject Jesus = as Their Savior? / When a Cop Sees a Black Woman ***** Drew Gardner: Three poems: I Am "So" Stupid / Norman Mailer / Dividin= g My Time ***** Nada Gordon: Three poems: Abnormal Discharge / Lick My Face / 'A Gumb= y episode' ***** Rodney Koeneke: Three poems: The Adorno Corollary / Europe. Memory. S= quid Parts. Grace. / Otto of Rose and Lavender ***** Michael Magee: Two excerpts: from My Angie Dickinson / Fascist Fairyt= ales #6 ***** Sharon Mesmer: Two poems: Juan Valdez Has a Little Juan Valdez (i.e.,= Energy Cannon) in His Pants / Squid Versus Assclown / At Princess Olga's ***** K. Silem Mohammad: Three Poems: 'The swans come hither in great numbe= rs' / Goldmine / Anti-Ass ***** Tim Peterson: Three Poems: Unmade Arts / From the Gecko / Biggest Dic= hter ***** Rod Smith: Three poems: What's happening to My Bottom (part 3) / What= is Happening to My Bottom? (s'appelle Charles the Bald) / The Exposition o= f the Question of the Meaning of Being ***** Christina Strong: Two Poems: Don't prufrock me! / You need a valium (= or "bored with blogs") ***** Gary Sullivan: Two plays: Gray Matter / PPL in a Depot ***** Tarzan: Tarzan Workshop _____________________________________ Poems ***** Ian Davidson: The Body Con ***** Thomas Devaney: Deliberate - "After Lorenzo Thomas" ***** Liam Ferney: Two poems: A Stolen Letter / Blonde on Blonde ***** Daniel Kane: Ostentation of Peacock (I counted eighty-five tail feath= ers) ***** John Kinsella: Graphology 590: Peak ***** John Latta: Two poems: Kid / Qualms ***** Gregory O'Brien: Solidarity with the anchovy ***** Simon Perril: daylight robbery ***** George Wallace: Purple Eggplants in the Rain, for Stanley Kunitz _____________________________________ John Tranter mailto:edit@jacketmagazine.com 39 Short Street Balmain NSW 2041 Australia Phone (61+) 0405 444 717 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 08:21:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Side Subject: Poetic parodies of Ted Hughes and Carol Ann Duffy by Luke Kennard and Rupert Loydell http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Kennard%20&%20Loydell%20poems.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 08:36:27 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jon Pratt Subject: Re: Doping Scandal Rocks Poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Drugs have just as much place in the creative arts as anything else does. I'd venture to say that if there's something that doesn't have a place in poetry, it is judging and competition...not drugs. Some of the best American writers came out of the beat generation and LSD and all other sorts of things. Some of it was due in part to actual drug use, but a lot of it was due to a climate in America created by drugs become more liberal. Not to mention the fact that drug use puts you in unnatural and abnormal situations you might not have ended up coming to on your own. Look at Hunter S. Thompson. Ginsberg. Jim Morrison (American Prayer, Wilderness, etc). If drug poetry bothers you, read other poetry. I'm not advocating drug use, since you really have to be careful or you may eventually come to feel you're only creative when you're on drugs (a bad thing for sure), but writers and poets long have a history of vices and substance abuse. If an artist wants to make their art (the only thing that will last anyway) a priority over their physical body, nobody has a right to tell them they are wrong, they are immoral, they are cheaters, etc. We aren't airline pilots...we're trying to do something new and exciting, and for many young people, drugs are something new and exciting they can tie into poetry. Whether you disagree or not personally with the decision, as an ARTIST, you should at least be tolerant of the creative methods of others, even if you can't muster an ounce of respect. The poetic community doesn't need obscenely narrow-minded judeo-christian standards slapped all over it. There is no one better poet and no one worse poet...we're all just artists. "Unfair advantage" is a term you can save for athletes. Jonathan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Vincent" To: Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 2:16 PM Subject: Re: Doping Scandal Rocks Poetry I remember teaching a poetry workshop at the San Francisco Art Institute circa 1972 when a student quit in disgust with the argument/protest that reading and/or writing poetry was only half of what you could get on a good combination of drugs, in fact, the use of words diminished the whole experience. Furthermore if I could not get what I needed 'in color', I was - in any case - missing the whole point of art. I and that kid (if he is still alive) are probably in the same or related meditation group now! At least for me - and no doubt Gabriel G. - turning off the chatter-box, silence before the revelations, if they be, of making poetry is good for my processes. Which is not to negate other means - concentrated reading (As George B suggests), walking, etc., etc. among them. Stephen V http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ > **Doping Scandal Rocks Poetry** > > by Mike Freakman > > July 30, New York (AHP2 News Service) - The > poetry world has been rocked by recent > revelations that several of the most prestigious > national poetry contest winners in 2005 and 2006 > were written with the aid of performance-enhancing drugs. > > "Over the past decade, poetry contests have > emphasized our openness to all participants, with > the promise that each manuscript is judged on its > merits along," said Guadalupe Maximino Glumstein, > the Chancellor of the International Poetry > Contests Federation (IPCF). "Doping is a huge > step backward in our efforts, since it gives an > unfair competitive advantage to those who are > willing to do anything, including risk long-term > damage to their bodies and minds, in order to write the best poem." > > The IPCF advocates testing for > performance-enhancing drugs as a prerequisite for > national book publications, slam competitions, as > well a poetry contests. Poets that violate IPCF > rules would be ineligible for prizes or > anthologies for penalty periods of one year for > first offenders to eternity for repeat offenders. > Poets that comply with IPCF guidelines get a > sticker to affix to all their publications > certifying their poems as doping-free. > > "Unless we want poetry to sink back into the > margins of society, we must assure readers that > poets produce their work with their own sweat > and imagination. When we teach a poem to a young > person in a school setting, to inspire and > instruct, we need to be able to say that anyone > can aspire to write a poem as good as this. We > can't afford to send a message that doping is > necessary to write the best poems. We have to have an even playing field." > > Several leading poets were asked to comment on > the scandal but refused to talk on the record, > for fear of provoking IPCF investigations of > their conduct. Unlike the use of doping in track > and cycling, poets often use > poetry-performance-enhancing drugs to cause > temporary physical and mental impairment or > paralysis, in order to hyperactivate their > imaginative capacities. The practice has been > shown to cause a number of long-term physical and mental maladies. > > But 11-year old Daisy Threadwhistle of > Incontrobrogliaria, New Jersey, was eager to > speak on the record. Ms. Threadwhistle said she > was very disappointed when a poem from her school > reader was removed when its author tested > positive for performance-enhancing drugs. " 'The > Moon Is My Revenge, Venus My Soldier of > Midnight' " was my favorite poem this year. I > feel cheated. I don't think I want to read any more poems." > In early 2006, IPCF introduced a battery of blood > and psychological tests to detect poetic doping. > An IPCF study group is now investigating whether > the use of certain computer programs and search > engines also should be banned from poetry. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 06:14:47 -0700 Reply-To: rsillima@yahoo.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Silliman's Blog (again with the comments) Comments: To: Brit Po , New Po , Wom Po , Lucifer Poetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ RECENT POSTS Visions of Kerouac – Clark Coolidge as literary critic Blog comments are back Sylvester Pollet and Backwoods Broadsides reach a conclusion Language Is by John Phillips a new moment is post-Projectivist post-Objectivist poetry? Mid-American Chants by Sherwood Anderson Writing as the personal never applied Gabe Gudding on the history of creative writing and contemporary poetry Rebirth of the division between the School of Quietude and the post-avant tradition in Afghan poetry in the U.S. Geography, community and traffic in the San Francisco Bay Area A moment of comedy offered by Brad Leithauser in the NY Times The tragedy of David Ignatow Litquake: We have met the enemy and he is us http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 10:10:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Intern Subject: Volume 3 of infLect MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Volume 3 of infLect: a journal of multimedia writing is now complete and available at http://www.ce.canberra.edu.au/inflect. There is new and exciting work by Charles Baldwin, David Clark, Mary Flanagan, Lewis LaCook and John Sparrow, and a link to mez's blog. infLect is a peer-reviewed Australian ejournal based in the School of Creative Communication, University of Canberra. It is devoted to creative multimedia work and innovative writing. The journal showcases work which brings together text, visual images and sound into a reciprocal relationship. The infLect Team: Editor Hazel Smith Editorial Committee: Greg Battye, Stephen Barrass, Jen Webb, Mitchell Whitelaw Editorial Advisors: Mark Amerika, Anne Brewster, John Cayley, Roger Dean, Marjorie C. Luesebrink, Adrian Miles, Marjorie Perloff Dr. Hazel Smith Senior Research Fellow Sonic Communications Research Group School of Creative Communication University of Canberra ACT 2601 Phone: +61 (0)2 6201 5940 Fax: +61 (0)2 6201 5300 http://www.canberra.edu.au/schools/creative-communication/staff- profiles/docs/hazel-smith More about my creative work at www.australysis.com Email: hazel.smith@canberra.edu.au Australian Government Higher Education Registered Provider (CRICOS) #00212K ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 10:20:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: An Account/ SoundEye Poetry Festival Comments: To: steph484@PACBELL.NET Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline My on-the-spot on tap accounts of SoundEye 2006 are available at British & = Irish Poets, http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/british-poets.html July 4, 5, 6, 7 (not truncated version), 8, & 10 SoundEye is a unique festival. I think the radiant animus of Trevor Joyce = is the heart & soul of it not least because of the muscular relationships = he has established with artists and intellectuals outside poetry (if the = domain 'outside poetry' can be said to exist), in Ireland & internationally= . What Fergal Gaynor has brought to the festival, with the Cork Caucus = last year and the cabarets this year (and a book on the Caucus coming = soon) is pure gold. There is such serious fun to be had here -- I don't = know of an American equivalent: I don't know where SoundEye's embrace of = its city, intellectual possibilities & responsibilities, and a wide range = of the arts, is replicated in the United States. And all this heady & = hearty excitement circles around the hub of Trevor's home, consummately & = generously opened to visiting poets. British film-maker Adam Wyeth made a = 92 min film of SoundEye 2005, bringing his own perspective as a film-maker = & poet to the festival. SoundEye is intense & lends itself to blending & = construction of one's own vivid SoundEye. I am (as always) joking in my = reports, but SoundEye is a laboratory for reading and observing/reflecting = on reading as well as everything else. Certainly it is a week of deep = reflection & immersion for me, as well as performance, & fiery conversation= . I treasure it. Thank you Trevor, Matthew, Fergal, & all. Mairead Mair=E9ad Byrne Associate Professor of English Rhode Island School of Design 2 College Street Providence, RI 02903 www.maireadbyrne.blogspot.com >>> steph484@PACBELL.NET 07/30/06 8:44 PM >>> The Soundeye Poetry Festival - July 3 - 9 / An account http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 15:31:37 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Roger Day Subject: Re: ric caddel wikipedia In-Reply-To: <7F166DBF-A315-494A-A38B-2B4A5A521530@mwt.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline You don't have to have an account to see the revision history. The "legendary downtown New York poet" Steve Dalachinsky has Jonathan Penton to thank for the latest revisions. Also, Ric Caddel's entry has 14 edits, mostly by 193.62.17.28 Roger On 7/28/06, mIEKAL aND wrote: > The entry has been edited by seven separate account, originally > posted in Jan 04. If you get an account (and anyone can) at > wikipedia you can then view the history of additions & edits as well > as having access to making your own edits. > > ~mIEKAL > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: UB Poetics discussion group > > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > > Behalf Of aaron tieger > > Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 8:19 AM > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: ric caddel wikipedia > > > > Does anyone know who wrote the Ric Caddel entry on Wikipedia? > > > A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they > will never sit > =97Greek proverb > --=20 http://www.badstep.net/ http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ "War is cruelty and you cannot refine it" - Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman, 1864 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 10:36:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: susan maurer Subject: feminists with low cut blouses Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed 7-30 reading was really fun. there will be another at the bowery poetry club in nyc on 8-13. a more complete announcement will be placed later susan maurer _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 10:40:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Orange Subject: civilians MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable mark et al=3A dershowitz is not alone in advancing this kind of thinking=3B here=27s th= e national review=27s victor davis hanson=3A =22=27Civilians=27 in Lebanon have munitions in their basements and deliberately wish to draw fire=3B in Israel they are in bunkers to avoid it=2E Israel uses precision weapons to avoid hitting them=3B Hezbollah se= nds random missiles into Israel to ensure they are struck=2E=22 =3Chttp=3A//article=2Enationalreview=2Ecom/=3Fq=3DMjI4MWIzODNlYjM3Yzg1M2F= iNTEzMWMyNzg1ZDIzNzQ=3D=3E barbara o=27brien offers the following take on this=3A =22I had to read that paragraph several times=2E Just what is Hanson sayi= ng here=3F He seems to be claiming that Lebanese civilians commonly voluntee= r to be suicide victims of Israeli attacks=2E I see that Hanson puts the word civilians in quotation marks=2C connoting irony =E2=80=94 those so-c= alled civilians are not really (wink=2C nudge) civilians=2E Is he claiming that= the claims of civilian deaths are exaggerated=3F Is he saying that it=E2=80= =99s OK to kill Lebanese civilians because they are asking for it=3F=22 =3Chttp=3A//www=2Emahablog=2Ecom/2006/07/29/a-tale-of-two-wankers=3E yes that seems to be what he=27s saying=2E=2E=2E tom orange washington=2Cdc ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 10:19:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: observable anthology $1 - today only - MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is the last day of July and the last day to join the gentle throng: http://observable.org/dollar/ As a final hurrah, I'll ship an anthology for your contribution of a buck or more. Today only, till midnight PST. Love- Aaron P.S. uninhibited thanks to these folks - Patrick Crowley, http://www.arl.wustl.edu/~pcrowley/ Charise Alexander, http://www.myspace.com/cherlikethemovie Avol's Books, http://www.avolsbooks.com Bill Freind, http://jacketmagazine.com/29/freind.html Ray Bianchi, http://chicagopostmodernpoetry.com Roseann Weiss, http://stlrac.org Tony Trigilio, http://starve.org Jen Gienapp, St. Elmo, TN Jesse Morrison, St. Louis, MO Jennifer Gaby, http://www.contemporarystl.org Ann Haubrich, St. Louis, MO Kristi Maxwell, http://www.kristimaxwell.blogspot.com Kathleen St. Peters, Coralville, IA Andrew Malkus, St. Louis, MO Stefene Russell, http://eunomia.stlbloggers.com/ Rebecca Ellis, Glen Carbon, IL Lindsey Durway, http://lindseydurway.com Andrea Avery, http://www.andreaavery.com Joe Dunthorne, Gower, Swansea (UK) Arthur Menke, http://www.aislinnarden.gather.com/ Brian Beatty, http://www.myspace.com/brianmbeatty Nick Antosca, http://brothercyst.blogspot.com/ Tim Garrett, http://photoboothstl.com Daniel Borzutzky, http://www.cafepress.com/triple_db.20053492 King Kaufman, http://www.salon.com/sports/ Jane Lee, http://janely.blogspot.com Anonymous, New York, NY Left Bank Books, http://www.left-bank.com Pris Campbell, http://www.poeticinspire.com Matt Bergeson, http://www.mattbergeson.com Laurel Snyder, http://jewishyirishy.com Kurt Groetsch, http://www.oldtasty.com Vincent Katz, http://www.vanitasmagazine.com Jeff Stein, http://www.jeffstein.com Cooper Renner, http://elimae.com Nancy Hughes, http://www.stlouispoetrycenter.org Jeanette Cooperman, http://stlmag.com F. J. Bergmann, http://www.fibitz.com Erick Tejkowski, Poesybeat Arts Initiative Deborah Lee, St. Louis, MO Christy Marshall, http://stlmag.com David Wolkin, Brooklyn, NY John Tranter, http://jacketmagazine.com Shanna Compton, http://www.shannacompton.com Sarah Morris, Napierville, IL Clay Banes, http://claytonbanes.blogspot.com Mia Littlejohn, http://www.eatfeed.com Maryrose Larkin, Portland, OR Joe Eisenbraun, St. Louis, MO James Goar, Brevard, NC Louise Mathias, Long Beach, CA Jilly Dybka, Kingston Springs, CA Anonymous, Birmingham, AL Stephen Lutz, http://www.thebigbridge.com Jordan Davis, http://www.jordandavis.com Sandra Beasley, http://www.sandrabeasley.com Peter Shippy, Jamaica Plain, MA Eric Woods, http://www.firecrackerpress.com Albert Song, http://www.fiatvera.com Susan Bloomfield, St. Louis, MO Vincent Howard, Chattanooga, TN Kathryn Knutson, Marietta, GA Brett Beckemeyer, St. Louis, MO Ethan Paquin, http://slope.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 11:21:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Daniel f. Bradley" Subject: Re: "civilians" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit sorry but i think there is a point it this that is getting swept away for example people who worked in the World trade Centre were not innocent - NO BODY WORKING FOR THOSE COMPANIES WAS INNOCENT - YOU HAVE TO FUCK OVER A LOT OF PEOPLE TO GET THERE - TO GET THOSE JOBS - do they need to died for that - maybe not - but when people make decisions on how and where they live - there are consequences - if you chose to follow a set of beliefs there are consequence to that AND SOMETIMES THAT MEANS PEOPLE WILL WANT TO KILL YOU FOR REALLY DUMB REASONS what i find strange is the idea that some of you out there seem to think there is a right and wrong to this - are you really that silly to think that any of this (the war - terrorist-Iraq - Israel), is a right and wrong issue - maybe you need to get out more and stop reading the media. maybe you need to stop thinking that there is a reason to living other than living. living makes things die on a small and large scale - and lots of times it will not be for a reason that you like or feel is justified. big deal stop thinking it's all about you Thomas Orange wrote: mark et al: dershowitz is not alone in advancing this kind of thinking; here's the national review's victor davis hanson: "'Civilians' in Lebanon have munitions in their basements and deliberately wish to draw fire; in Israel they are in bunkers to avoid it. Israel uses precision weapons to avoid hitting them; Hezbollah sends random missiles into Israel to ensure they are struck." barbara o'brien offers the following take on this: "I had to read that paragraph several times. Just what is Hanson saying here? He seems to be claiming that Lebanese civilians commonly volunteer to be suicide victims of Israeli attacks. I see that Hanson puts the word civilians in quotation marks, connoting irony — those so-called civilians are not really (wink, nudge) civilians. Is he claiming that the claims of civilian deaths are exaggerated? Is he saying that it’s OK to kill Lebanese civilians because they are asking for it?" yes that seems to be what he's saying... tom orange washington,dc helping to kill your literati star since 2004 http://fhole.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 11:30:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Boog's 15th Anniversary Event Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit please forward --------------- Boog's 15th Anniversary Party Sat. Aug. 5, 6:00 p.m., $5 The Bowery Poetry Club 308 Bowery (and 1st Street) NYC with readings from: Rachel Aydt Lee Ann Brown Sean Cole Ian Wilder and music from: Schwervon! Hosted by Boog editor and publisher David Kirschenbaum Directions: F train to Second Avenue, or 6 train to Bleecker Street. Venue is at foot of 1st Street, between Houston and Bleecker streets, across from CBGB's. Call 212-842-BOOG(2664) or email editor@boogcity.com for further information poet and musical acts' websites http://www.olivejuicemusic.com/schwervon.html http://www.myspace.com/schwervon poet and musical acts' bios, from a Boog perspective --Rachel Aydt, the first non-Boog editor to be published, author of our second chapbook, A Canopy Sack of Details, which came out on our first day, Aug. 5, 1991. She's been ruling the halls of CosmoGIRL! magazine for the last six years and teaches writing at the New School University; --Lee Ann Brown, the author of our 14th chapbook, a museme, as well as a broadside, a calendar, and the cover and feature of our first perfect-bound collection, The Portable Boog Reader. She is the author of two full-length volumes of poetry, The Sleep That Changed Everything and Polyverse; --Sean Cole, the author of our 25th Boog chapbook, by the author., and of our first single-author perfect-bound book, The December Project. He is a regular contributor to the public radio program Marketplace, among other shows; --Schwervon, a band comprised of Matt Roth and Nan Turner, who have combined to play dozens of boog shows, as Schwervon or one of the other acts they each are part of--Kansas State Flower, Pantsuit, Major Matt Mason USA, and the late Bionicfinger. Their third record, I Dream of Teeth, just came out on Olive Juice Music; and --Ian Wilder, the author of our third chapbook, The Collected Wisdom of a Young Fool Vol. 2. His work has appeared in LI Pulse, The Improper, Polarity Magazine, and the Journal for Living, among others. He is the co-chair of the New York State Green Party. -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 09:39:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Wallace Subject: civilians MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Maybe I should have clarified my question. I meant the first concerted instance of U.S. war policy directed primarily against civilians who they understood to be civilians. There's no entity called the U.S. in the 17th century. I'm not sure whether the Trail of Tears, for instance, is warfare as such, and I doubt that the term civilians would have been applied to the Cherokees (my point here is not to excuse that event). Local massacres of civilians are of course common in all sorts of historical situations--but what I'm looking for is the historical moment(s) in which it becomes conscious U.S. military policy to attack civilians FIRST, instead of as a byproduct of already ongoing battles between armies. Which raises another historical question, which is at what moment did the concept of "civilians" come to be separated from the idea of a nation as such? Civilians as a transnational concept? Anybody know? Mark >But the conscious killing of civlians as an essential >element of military strategy has been more or less a >standard practice of war for some centuries at least. >I'm no expert, but is Sherman's march across Georgia >the first U.S. instance of war by massive destruction >of civilian life? Try the Indian wars of the 17th century. Both sides killed women and children, the English rather more effectively. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 11:52:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: observable erratum MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is terrible. A faithful patron just pointed out that my previous = email left off 1/2 the Gentle Citizens. Here they are again, then, just to = say thanks -=20 Belz http://observable.org/dollar/ --------------------------------------------- Luc Simonic, http://www.myspace.com/lucsimonic=20 Dan Coffey, http://hyperhypo.org=20 Kirk Swearingen, St. Louis, MO=20 Clay Matthews, http://claymatthews.org =20 Haze McElhenny, http://www.studio524.net/hazetoo/ =20 Noah Falck, http://corporatelibrary.blogspot.com =20 Jessica Smith, http://www.looktouch.com =20 Maureen Thorson, http://www.reenhead.com/mole/mole.php =20 Elizabeth Odegard, Astoria, NY=20 Tiffany Noonan, http://lyria.livejournal.com =20 Anonymous, Mebane, NC=20 Anonymous, St. Louis, MO=20 Susan Maynor, St. Louis, MO=20 Julie Dill, http://juliedill.blogspot.com =20 Peat Wollaeger, http://stensoul.blogspot.com =20 Erin Elizabeth Smith, http://www.sundress.net/erin/ =20 Carol McClellan, St. Louis, MO=20 Reb Livingston, http://www.reblivingston.net =20 Virginia Heatter, http://newhampshirereview.com =20 Drew Bell, http://www.droob.org =20 Shann Palmer, http://shannpalmer.blogspot.com =20 Rebecca Belz, http://belzsells.net =20 Anonymous, Ottawa, Canada=20 Jeffery Bahr, http://www.jefferybahr.com =20 Shannon O'Brien, Jupiter, FL=20 Daryl Cobranchi, Fayetteville, NC=20 Patrick Herron, http://proximate.org =20 Kelly Parker, St. Louis, MO=20 Michael Todd Parker, St. Louis, MO=20 Steve McLaughlin, http://arsonisnoway.livejournal.com =20 Didi Menendez, http://www.mipoesias.com =20 Richard Stockton, Berkeley, CA=20 Richard Long, http://www.2river.org =20 Steven D. Schroeder, http://www.acreativeresume.com =20 Kate Greenstreet, http://kickingwind.com =20 Christopher Morrow, Reston, VA=20 Robin Theiss, St. Louis Writers Guild=20 Andrea Avery, http://www.andreaavery.com =20 Laura Godfrey, Dayton, OH=20 Albert Michael, Reston, VA=20 Jeffrey Ethan Lee, http://colopoets.unco.edu/LeeJbio.htm =20 Brian Gerhardstein, http://www.apunit.com =20 Jennifer Coleman, http://pompompress.com =20 Gregory Ott, St. Louis, MO=20 Ren=E9e Ashley, http://www.avocetpress.com/vrol-cover.htm =20 Jennifer Tynes, http://mthrtongue.livejournal.com =20 Deborah Poe, http://www.livejournal.com/users/poebot =20 Gabriel Gudding, http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com =20 Scott Pierce, http://osnapper.typepad.com =20 Ray Hsu, http://herecomeseverybody.blogspot.com/ =20 Ronnie James Dio, http://www.ronniejamesdio.com =20 Global Voices Radio, http://www.globalvoicesradio.org =20 Denise Thomas, Waterford, MI=20 Barbara Ploegstra Hunt, http://missourimule.com =20 Vernon Frazer, http://vernonfrazer.com =20 Fran=E7ois Luong, http://fluong.blogspot.com =20 Cindy Tebo, Catawissa, MO=20 Andy Carter, Emporia, KS=20 Peter Davis, Muncie, IN=20 Donna Bedding, http://www.myspace.com/2006forthetimebeing =20 Cole Swensen, http://www.poets.org/poet.php/prmPID/704 =20 Piotr Gwiazda, http://www.wwph.org/gagarinStreet.html =20 Julie Malone, http://www.artbyjules.com =20 Juliet Tessicini, Oakland, CA=20 Sean Collins, http://ccmg.us =20 Michael Zolman, http://automatic-art.com =20 Randall Roberts, http://www.glorygloryglory.com =20 Philip delaHoussaye, St. Louis, MO=20 Renae Johnson, St. Louis, MO=20 Benjamin Pierce, Madison, WI=20 James Maughn, http://www.mipoesias.com/2006/maughn.html =20 Elijah Mark Belz, St. Louis, MO=20 Patrick Crowley, http://www.arl.wustl.edu/~pcrowley/ =20 Charise Alexander, http://www.myspace.com/cherlikethemovie =20 Avol's Books, http://www.avolsbooks.com =20 Bill Freind, http://jacketmagazine.com/29/freind.html =20 Ray Bianchi, http://chicagopostmodernpoetry.com =20 Roseann Weiss, http://stlrac.org =20 Tony Trigilio, http://starve.org =20 Jen Gienapp, St. Elmo, TN=20 Jesse Morrison, St. Louis, MO=20 Jennifer Gaby, http://www.contemporarystl.org =20 Ann Haubrich, St. Louis, MO=20 Kristi Maxwell, http://www.kristimaxwell.blogspot.com =20 Kathleen St. Peters, Coralville, IA=20 Andrew Malkus, St. Louis, MO=20 Stefene Russell, http://eunomia.stlbloggers.com/ =20 Rebecca Ellis, Glen Carbon, IL=20 Lindsey Durway, http://lindseydurway.com =20 Andrea Avery, http://www.andreaavery.com =20 Joe Dunthorne, Gower, Swansea (UK)=20 Arthur Menke, http://www.aislinnarden.gather.com/ =20 Brian Beatty, http://www.myspace.com/brianmbeatty =20 Nick Antosca, http://brothercyst.blogspot.com/ =20 Tim Garrett, http://photoboothstl.com =20 Daniel Borzutzky, http://www.cafepress.com/triple_db.20053492 =20 King Kaufman, http://www.salon.com/sports/ =20 Jane Lee, http://janely.blogspot.com =20 Anonymous, New York, NY=20 Left Bank Books, http://www.left-bank.com =20 Pris Campbell, http://www.poeticinspire.com =20 Matt Bergeson, http://www.mattbergeson.com =20 Laurel Snyder, http://jewishyirishy.com =20 Kurt Groetsch, http://www.oldtasty.com =20 Vincent Katz, http://www.vanitasmagazine.com =20 Jeff Stein, http://www.jeffstein.com =20 Cooper Renner, http://elimae.com =20 Nancy Hughes, http://www.stlouispoetrycenter.org =20 Jeanette Cooperman, http://stlmag.com =20 F. J. Bergmann, http://www.fibitz.com =20 Erick Tejkowski, Poesybeat Arts Initiative=20 Deborah Lee, St. Louis, MO=20 Christy Marshall, http://stlmag.com =20 David Wolkin, Brooklyn, NY=20 John Tranter, http://jacketmagazine.com =20 Shanna Compton, http://www.shannacompton.com =20 Sarah Morris, Napierville, IL=20 Clay Banes, http://claytonbanes.blogspot.com =20 Mia Littlejohn, http://www.eatfeed.com =20 Maryrose Larkin, Portland, OR=20 Joe Eisenbraun, St. Louis, MO=20 James Goar, Brevard, NC=20 Louise Mathias, Long Beach, CA=20 Jilly Dybka, Kingston Springs, CA=20 Anonymous, Birmingham, AL=20 Stephen Lutz, http://www.thebigbridge.com =20 Jordan Davis, http://www.jordandavis.com =20 Sandra Beasley, http://www.sandrabeasley.com =20 Peter Shippy, Jamaica Plain, MA=20 Eric Woods, http://www.firecrackerpress.com =20 Albert Song, http://www.fiatvera.com =20 Susan Bloomfield, St. Louis, MO=20 Vincent Howard, Chattanooga, TN=20 Kathryn Knutson, Marietta, GA=20 Brett Beckemeyer, St. Louis, MO=20 Ethan Paquin, http://slope.org =20 Marc Kipniss, Edmonds, WA=20 Anonymous, Chicago, IL=20 Kevin Thurston, http://fuckinglies.blogspot.com/ =20 Gabrielle Welford, http://www.hawaii.edu =20 Heidi Arnold, Vestal, NY=20 Gena Allen, http://www.eatspace.net/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 10:57:42 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: civilians Comments: cc: Kass Fleisher In-Reply-To: <20060731163918.6703.qmail@web60020.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" mark, a plug for my spouse kass fleisher's ~the bear river massacre and the making of history~ (suny, 2004)... the attack on wintering shoshoni at bear river (now idaho, formerly utah territory) in jan. 1863 -- with women and children present -- constituted a change in u.s. federal indian policy, with that event becoming the template for sand creek and other such military campaigns... warriors were present, sure, but so were non-combatant (to use contemporary jargon) natives... i would say this at least serves as something of an historical precedent in light of dershowitz's irksome notion of "civilianality"... best, joe >Maybe I should have clarified my question. I meant the >first concerted instance of U.S. war policy directed >primarily against civilians who they understood to be >civilians. There's no entity called the U.S. in the >17th century. > >I'm not sure whether the Trail of Tears, for instance, >is warfare as such, and I doubt that the term >civilians would have been applied to the Cherokees (my >point here is not to excuse that event). > >Local massacres of civilians are of course common in >all sorts of historical situations--but what I'm >looking for is the historical moment(s) in which it >becomes conscious U.S. military policy to attack >civilians FIRST, instead of as a byproduct of already >ongoing battles between armies. > >Which raises another historical question, which is at >what moment did the concept of "civilians" come to be >separated from the idea of a nation as such? Civilians >as a transnational concept? Anybody know? > >Mark > > > > >>But the conscious killing of civlians as an essential >>element of military strategy has been more or less a >>standard practice of war for some centuries at least. >>I'm no expert, but is Sherman's march across Georgia >>the first U.S. instance of war by massive destruction >>of civilian life? > > >Try the Indian wars of the 17th century. Both sides >killed women and >children, the English rather more effectively. > > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 07:01:51 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabrielle Welford Subject: Re: civilians In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT and surely it began long before that--during king philip's war in the late 1600s the settlers were burning whole villages of women and children right here in massachusetts. On Mon, 31 Jul 2006, Joe Amato wrote: > mark, a plug for my spouse kass fleisher's ~the bear river massacre > and the making of history~ (suny, 2004)... the attack on wintering > shoshoni at bear river (now idaho, formerly utah territory) in jan. > 1863 -- with women and children present -- constituted a change in > u.s. federal indian policy, with that event becoming the template for > sand creek and other such military campaigns... > > warriors were present, sure, but so were non-combatant (to use > contemporary jargon) natives... i would say this at least serves as > something of an historical precedent in light of dershowitz's irksome > notion of "civilianality"... > > best, > > joe > > >Maybe I should have clarified my question. I meant the > >first concerted instance of U.S. war policy directed > >primarily against civilians who they understood to be > >civilians. There's no entity called the U.S. in the > >17th century. > > > >I'm not sure whether the Trail of Tears, for instance, > >is warfare as such, and I doubt that the term > >civilians would have been applied to the Cherokees (my > >point here is not to excuse that event). > > > >Local massacres of civilians are of course common in > >all sorts of historical situations--but what I'm > >looking for is the historical moment(s) in which it > >becomes conscious U.S. military policy to attack > >civilians FIRST, instead of as a byproduct of already > >ongoing battles between armies. > > > >Which raises another historical question, which is at > >what moment did the concept of "civilians" come to be > >separated from the idea of a nation as such? Civilians > >as a transnational concept? Anybody know? > > > >Mark > > > > > > > > > >>But the conscious killing of civlians as an essential > >>element of military strategy has been more or less a > >>standard practice of war for some centuries at least. > >>I'm no expert, but is Sherman's march across Georgia > >>the first U.S. instance of war by massive destruction > >>of civilian life? > > > > > >Try the Indian wars of the 17th century. Both sides > >killed women and > >children, the English rather more effectively. > > > > > > > >__________________________________________________ > >Do You Yahoo!? > >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > >http://mail.yahoo.com > gabrielle welford welford@hawaii.edu Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.595 / Virus Database: 378 - Release Date: 2/25/2004 wilhelm reich anarcho-syndicalism gut/heart/head/earth ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 13:02:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Switaj Subject: Re: "civilians" In-Reply-To: <20060731152114.5731.qmail@web88106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline I understand the point you're trying to make in saying that people who worked for the companies in the World Trade Center were not "innocent", but does that really apply to janitors, for example? Again, I realize that you may not consider the presence of working class people there to be relevant to your point, but I think it's important to avoid making the working class experience even more invisible than it already is. Elizabeth Switaj http://qassandra.livejournal.com On 7/31/06, Daniel f. Bradley wrote: > > sorry but i think there is a point it this that is getting swept away for > example > > people who worked in the World trade Centre were not innocent - NO BODY > WORKING FOR THOSE COMPANIES WAS INNOCENT - YOU HAVE TO FUCK OVER A LOT OF > PEOPLE TO GET THERE - TO GET THOSE JOBS - do they need to died for that = - > maybe not - but when people make decisions on how and where they live - > there are consequences - if you chose to follow a set of beliefs there ar= e > consequence to that AND SOMETIMES THAT MEANS PEOPLE WILL WANT TO KILL YOU > FOR REALLY DUMB REASONS > > what i find strange is the idea that some of you out there seem to thin= k > there is a right and wrong to this - are you really that silly to think t= hat > any of this (the war - terrorist-Iraq - Israel), is a right and wrong is= sue > - maybe you need to get out more and stop reading the media. maybe you ne= ed > to stop thinking that there is a reason to living other than living. livi= ng > makes things die on a small and large scale - and lots of times it will n= ot > be for a reason that you like or feel is justified. > > big deal > > stop thinking it's all about you > > > > > > Thomas Orange wrote: > mark et al: > > dershowitz is not alone in advancing this kind of thinking; here's the > national review's victor davis hanson: > > "'Civilians' in Lebanon have munitions in their basements and > deliberately wish to draw fire; in Israel they are in bunkers to avoid > it. Israel uses precision weapons to avoid hitting them; Hezbollah sends > random missiles into Israel to ensure they are struck." > > > barbara o'brien offers the following take on this: > "I had to read that paragraph several times. Just what is Hanson saying > here? He seems to be claiming that Lebanese civilians commonly volunteer > to be suicide victims of Israeli attacks. I see that Hanson puts the > word civilians in quotation marks, connoting irony =97 those so-called > civilians are not really (wink, nudge) civilians. Is he claiming that > the claims of civilian deaths are exaggerated? Is he saying that it's OK > to kill Lebanese civilians because they are asking for it?" > > > yes that seems to be what he's saying... > > tom orange > washington,dc > > > > helping to kill your literati star since 2004 > http://fhole.blogspot.com/ > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 10:16:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: "civilians" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Even so "Nobody working there was innocent" is still far too sweeping a gen= eralization. Unless you want to go so far as to say "no one is innocent," w= hich, fine, that's a dick thing to say and it renders the term meaningless,= but just because they worked for financial services companies it doesn't m= ean they fucked people over. Never mind that they weren't even all financia= l services companies: http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/tenants1.html On Mon, 31 Jul 2006, Elizabeth Switaj wrote: > I understand the point you're trying to make in saying that people who > worked for the companies in the World Trade Center were not "innocent", b= ut > does that really apply to janitors, for example? Again, I realize that y= ou > may not consider the presence of working class people there to be releva= nt > to your point, but I think it's important to avoid making the working cla= ss > experience even more invisible than it already is. > > Elizabeth Switaj > http://qassandra.livejournal.com > > On 7/31/06, Daniel f. Bradley wrote: >>=20 >> sorry but i think there is a point it this that is getting swept away fo= r >> example >>=20 >> people who worked in the World trade Centre were not innocent - NO BOD= Y >> WORKING FOR THOSE COMPANIES WAS INNOCENT - YOU HAVE TO FUCK OVER A LOT O= F >> PEOPLE TO GET THERE - TO GET THOSE JOBS - do they need to died for that= - >> maybe not - but when people make decisions on how and where they live - >> there are consequences - if you chose to follow a set of beliefs there a= re >> consequence to that AND SOMETIMES THAT MEANS PEOPLE WILL WANT TO KILL YO= U >> FOR REALLY DUMB REASONS >>=20 >> what i find strange is the idea that some of you out there seem to thi= nk >> there is a right and wrong to this - are you really that silly to think = that >> any of this (the war - terrorist-Iraq - Israel), is a right and wrong i= ssue >> - maybe you need to get out more and stop reading the media. maybe you n= eed >> to stop thinking that there is a reason to living other than living. liv= ing >> makes things die on a small and large scale - and lots of times it will = not >> be for a reason that you like or feel is justified. >>=20 >> big deal >>=20 >> stop thinking it's all about you >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Thomas Orange wrote: >> mark et al: >>=20 >> dershowitz is not alone in advancing this kind of thinking; here's the >> national review's victor davis hanson: >>=20 >> "'Civilians' in Lebanon have munitions in their basements and >> deliberately wish to draw fire; in Israel they are in bunkers to avoid >> it. Israel uses precision weapons to avoid hitting them; Hezbollah sends >> random missiles into Israel to ensure they are struck." >>=20 >>=20 >> barbara o'brien offers the following take on this: >> "I had to read that paragraph several times. Just what is Hanson saying >> here? He seems to be claiming that Lebanese civilians commonly volunteer >> to be suicide victims of Israeli attacks. I see that Hanson puts the >> word civilians in quotation marks, connoting irony =E2=80=94 those so-ca= lled >> civilians are not really (wink, nudge) civilians. Is he claiming that >> the claims of civilian deaths are exaggerated? Is he saying that it's OK >> to kill Lebanese civilians because they are asking for it?" >>=20 >>=20 >> yes that seems to be what he's saying... >>=20 >> tom orange >> washington,dc >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> helping to kill your literati star since 2004 >> http://fhole.blogspot.com/ >>=20 >>=20 > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 13:20:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Phil Primeau Subject: Re: "civilians" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline "NO BODY WORKING FOR THOSE COMPANIES WAS INNOCENT" Right, inasmuch as nobody is "innocent." We all do what we need to get by, we all scrape a litte here and look the other way there. And, to echo Elizabeth, there were plenty of working class folks killed on 9/11. Janitors, security guards, couriers, etc.. (As if being "working class" makes random incineration less acceptable.) Phil Primeau PERSISTENCIA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 10:29:04 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: "civilians" In-Reply-To: <20060731152114.5731.qmail@web88106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable the WTC was largely unleased because it was a pretty bad idea, office building-wise, to build that high; there were a lot of artists and small offices that took advantage of the relatively cheap office space, not to mention the city / port authority / triborough workers in the basement, support staff, restaurant workers, and hundreds of others with really = sucky jobs there. also, there were lots of nonprofits. plus lots of people = who were working in the surrounding buildings died. why blame victims. civilians as a word is people who have civic values such as social and = legal justice without religious belief -- seems there aren't very many of us. while it wasn't used as "non-military personnel" until the early 1800s according to the OED, it was interestingly used for the families of the = east India company workers, diplomatic service, etc., so the evacuees were = the "civilians" in the strictest sense. and since most militaries employ = many non-military workers to do jobs supporting combat, if these are = civilians, then certainly bankers specializing in funding certain sorts of defense contracting are civilians Catherine Daly =20 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 14:11:04 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: My Protest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My subscription to Buffalo Poetics is immediately canceled to demonstrate my disgust at the tragic stupidity of modern poets and other members who use language to pontificate about and perpetuate wars Mary Jo Malo ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 14:40:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Daniel f. Bradley" Subject: Re: "civilians with X on their backs" In-Reply-To: <003a01c6b4c6$d22ebb00$6501a8c0@KASIA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit i am not blaming victims (kids remember i'm not actual an terrorist - just a beef eatting no car driving straight male who is white and lives with a non white person and another other littler person)- I'm pointing that there really are no victims (victims- you Americans are very fond of being victims or help out others by calling them victims) wtc is strike at USA and American (and North America and the "WEST") and if you are unwilling to admit that maybe you (we) are occasional due a slap down from our slaves then you can be sure that it will happen again, and again - sometimes the little guy gets in a good sucker punch the "working class" (do you people ever listen to yourselves - no class system here) stiffs they were probably not the target the target was the really fucking big buildings in the middle of the really fucking big city in the middle of the really fucking annoying country that likes to tell all the other counties what to do and how to do it - frankly anywhere in that county was fair game that day your "working class" were as your White House likes to call collateral damage (as the "working class" usually is anywhere and everywhere (Iraq) basically they smashed at your idol in your temple to money and you wonder why ? i don't think you learn very well Catherine Daly wrote: the WTC was largely unleased because it was a pretty bad idea, office building-wise, to build that high; there were a lot of artists and small offices that took advantage of the relatively cheap office space, not to mention the city / port authority / triborough workers in the basement, support staff, restaurant workers, and hundreds of others with really sucky jobs there. also, there were lots of nonprofits. plus lots of people who were working in the surrounding buildings died. why blame victims. civilians as a word is people who have civic values such as social and legal justice without religious belief -- seems there aren't very many of us. while it wasn't used as "non-military personnel" until the early 1800s according to the OED, it was interestingly used for the families of the east India company workers, diplomatic service, etc., so the evacuees were the "civilians" in the strictest sense. and since most militaries employ many non-military workers to do jobs supporting combat, if these are civilians, then certainly bankers specializing in funding certain sorts of defense contracting are civilians Catherine Daly helping to kill your literati star since 2004 http://fhole.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 11:55:00 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Doping Scandal Rocks Poetry In-Reply-To: <000601c6b49d$f1eb6980$6400a8c0@jonscomputer> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit U, Jonathan, That was a piece of satire. You know, parodic, ironic writing. gb On 31-Jul-06, at 5:36 AM, Jon Pratt wrote: > Drugs have just as much place in the creative arts as anything else > does. > I'd venture to say that if there's something that doesn't have a place > in > poetry, it is judging and competition...not drugs. Some of the best > American writers came out of the beat generation and LSD and all other > sorts > of things. Some of it was due in part to actual drug use, but a lot > of it > was due to a climate in America created by drugs become more liberal. > Not > to mention the fact that drug use puts you in unnatural and abnormal > situations you might not have ended up coming to on your own. Look at > Hunter S. Thompson. Ginsberg. Jim Morrison (American Prayer, > Wilderness, > etc). If drug poetry bothers you, read other poetry. > > I'm not advocating drug use, since you really have to be careful or > you may > eventually come to feel you're only creative when you're on drugs (a > bad > thing for sure), but writers and poets long have a history of vices and > substance abuse. If an artist wants to make their art (the only thing > that > will last anyway) a priority over their physical body, nobody has a > right to > tell them they are wrong, they are immoral, they are cheaters, etc. We > aren't airline pilots...we're trying to do something new and exciting, > and > for many young people, drugs are something new and exciting they can > tie > into poetry. Whether you disagree or not personally with the > decision, as > an ARTIST, you should at least be tolerant of the creative methods of > others, even if you can't muster an ounce of respect. The poetic > community > doesn't need obscenely narrow-minded judeo-christian standards slapped > all > over it. There is no one better poet and no one worse poet...we're > all just > artists. "Unfair advantage" is a term you can save for athletes. > > Jonathan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stephen Vincent" > To: > Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 2:16 PM > Subject: Re: Doping Scandal Rocks Poetry > > > I remember teaching a poetry workshop at the San Francisco Art > Institute > circa 1972 when a student quit in disgust with the argument/protest > that > reading and/or writing poetry was only half of what you could get on a > good > combination of drugs, in fact, the use of words diminished the whole > experience. Furthermore if I could not get what I needed 'in color', I > was - > in any case - missing the whole point of art. > > I and that kid (if he is still alive) are probably in the same or > related > meditation group now! At least for me - and no doubt Gabriel G. - > turning > off the chatter-box, silence before the revelations, if they be, of > making > poetry is good for my processes. > > Which is not to negate other means - concentrated reading (As George B > suggests), walking, etc., etc. among them. > > Stephen V > http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ > > > > > >> **Doping Scandal Rocks Poetry** >> >> by Mike Freakman >> >> July 30, New York (AHP2 News Service) - The >> poetry world has been rocked by recent >> revelations that several of the most prestigious >> national poetry contest winners in 2005 and 2006 >> were written with the aid of performance-enhancing drugs. >> >> "Over the past decade, poetry contests have >> emphasized our openness to all participants, with >> the promise that each manuscript is judged on its >> merits along," said Guadalupe Maximino Glumstein, >> the Chancellor of the International Poetry >> Contests Federation (IPCF). "Doping is a huge >> step backward in our efforts, since it gives an >> unfair competitive advantage to those who are >> willing to do anything, including risk long-term >> damage to their bodies and minds, in order to write the best poem." >> >> The IPCF advocates testing for >> performance-enhancing drugs as a prerequisite for >> national book publications, slam competitions, as >> well a poetry contests. Poets that violate IPCF >> rules would be ineligible for prizes or >> anthologies for penalty periods of one year for >> first offenders to eternity for repeat offenders. >> Poets that comply with IPCF guidelines get a >> sticker to affix to all their publications >> certifying their poems as doping-free. >> >> "Unless we want poetry to sink back into the >> margins of society, we must assure readers that >> poets produce their work with their own sweat >> and imagination. When we teach a poem to a young >> person in a school setting, to inspire and >> instruct, we need to be able to say that anyone >> can aspire to write a poem as good as this. We >> can't afford to send a message that doping is >> necessary to write the best poems. We have to have an even playing >> field." >> >> Several leading poets were asked to comment on >> the scandal but refused to talk on the record, >> for fear of provoking IPCF investigations of >> their conduct. Unlike the use of doping in track >> and cycling, poets often use >> poetry-performance-enhancing drugs to cause >> temporary physical and mental impairment or >> paralysis, in order to hyperactivate their >> imaginative capacities. The practice has been >> shown to cause a number of long-term physical and mental maladies. >> >> But 11-year old Daisy Threadwhistle of >> Incontrobrogliaria, New Jersey, was eager to >> speak on the record. Ms. Threadwhistle said she >> was very disappointed when a poem from her school >> reader was removed when its author tested >> positive for performance-enhancing drugs. " 'The >> Moon Is My Revenge, Venus My Soldier of >> Midnight' " was my favorite poem this year. I >> feel cheated. I don't think I want to read any more poems." >> In early 2006, IPCF introduced a battery of blood >> and psychological tests to detect poetic doping. >> An IPCF study group is now investigating whether >> the use of certain computer programs and search >> engines also should be banned from poetry. > > George H. Bowering Fears a symmetrical oyster. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 13:59:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: Re: My Protest In-Reply-To: <553.5551234.31ffa1b8@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Malo malo malo malo. =09 -- Latin puzzle poem (a) translation:=20 I choose=20 an apple tree=20 over a grouch=20 protesting unfortunately. -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Mary Jo Malo Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 13:11 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: My Protest My subscription to Buffalo Poetics is immediately canceled to demonstrate my disgust at the tragic stupidity of modern poets and other members who use language to pontificate about and perpetuate wars Mary Jo Malo ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 12:36:48 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: Vipassana Meditation Thought for the Day In-Reply-To: <20060730.011143.-74621.6.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Vipassana has nothing to do with one or two or no hands clapping. That's Zen, a form of Mahayana Buddhism. Vipassana, which is Theravada Buddhism, watches the breath and sensations in the body. It could do you good, Steve. And it's no old Brooklyn joke before or after email. Regards, Tom Savage Steve Dalachinsky wrote: what is the sound of one bomb dropping in the 60's i did that one hand clap stuff a n old brooklyn joke i only sit to write e mails --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 15:39:05 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Kelleher Subject: JUST BUFFALO E-NEWSLETTER 7-31-06 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable JUST BUFFALO AND TALKING LEAVES PRESENT: Olga Karman Reading and Book signing for Scatter My Ashes Over Havana Thursday, August 3, 7 p.m. Talking Leaves...Books, 3158 Main St. Cuban-born poet and educator Olga Karman, who has spent the last several de= cades in Buffalo, will unveil her new memoir, Scatter My Ashes Over Havana (Pure = Play Press), at a reading and book signing at the Main Street Store This event i= s free and open to the public. The book will be for sale at the reading; copies are = in stock and available for purchase in both Talking Leaves locations now. NEW: JOIN JUST BUFFALO ONLINE=21=21=21 If you would like to join Just Buffalo, or simply make a massive personal d= onation, you can do so online using your credit card. We have recently added the abilit= y to join online by paying with a credit card through PayPal. Simply click on the me= mbership level at which you would like to join, log in (or create a PayPal account u= sing your Visa/Amex/Mastercard/Discover), and voil=E1, you will find yourself in lite= rary heaven. For more info, or to join now, go to our website: http://www.justbuffalo.org/membership/index.shtml SPOKEN ARTS RADIO, with host Sarah Campbell A joint production of Just Buffalo Literary Center and WBFO 88.7 FM Airs Sundays during Weekend Edition at 8:35 a.m. and Mondays during Morning Edition at 6:35 A.M. & 8:35 a.m. Upcoming Features: July 30 & 31, OLGA KARMAN Note: Olga Karman will read from and sign her book Scatter My Ashes Over Ha= vana on Thursday, August 3 at Talking Leaves, Main St. Visit our website for i= nfo: http://www.justbuffalo.org/events/cle/talkingleaves.shtml All shows are now available for download on our website, including features= on John Ashbery, Paul Auster, Lyn Hejinian, Ray Bradbury and more... http://www.justbuffalo.org/events/sar.shtml JUST BUFFALO WRITER'S CRITIQUE GROUP Members of Just Buffalo are welcome to attend a free, bi-monthly writer cri= tique group in CEPA's Flux Gallery. Group meets 1st and 3rd Wednesday at 7 p.m. Call fo= r details. Note: the critique group is on hiatus until September. Please call in Augu= st if you'd like to join up in the fall. LITERARY BUFFALO CENTER FOR INQUIRY LITERARY CAFE Ethan Paquin and Michael Kelleher Wedesday, August 2, 7 p.m. Center For Inquiry, 3965 Rensch Rd Amherst, NY 14228 UNSUBSCRIBE If you would like to unsubscribe from this list, just say so and you will b= e immediately removed. _______________________________ Michael Kelleher Artistic Director Just Buffalo Literary Center Market Arcade 617 Main St., Ste. 202A Buffalo, NY 14203 716.832.5400 716.270.0184 (fax) www.justbuffalo.org mjk=40justbuffalo.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 12:48:45 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Vipassana Meditation Thought for the Day In-Reply-To: <20060731193648.56692.qmail@web31111.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 31-Jul-06, at 12:36 PM, Thomas savage wrote: > Vipassana has nothing to do with one or two or no hands clapping. > That's Zen, a form of Mahayana Buddhism. Vipassana, which is > Theravada Buddhism, watches the breath "Who has seen the wind?" George H. Bowering ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 15:07:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Re: My Protest Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 This war in Iran is silly. Why did we invade Iran in 2003? And why did we i= nvade Korea last year? It's silly, I tell you. What's next - Iraq? I choose the groucho tree to the apple tea. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom W. Lewis" > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: My Protest > Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 13:59:21 -0500 >=20 >=20 > Malo malo malo malo.=20=09 >=20 > -- Latin puzzle poem >=20 > (a) translation: >=20 > I choose > an apple tree > over a grouch > protesting unfortunately. >=20 >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] > On Behalf Of Mary Jo Malo > Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 13:11 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: My Protest >=20 > My subscription to Buffalo Poetics >=20 > is immediately canceled >=20 > to demonstrate my disgust >=20 > at the tragic stupidity of modern poets >=20 > and other members who use language >=20 > to pontificate about and perpetuate wars >=20 >=20 > Mary Jo Malo > Christophe Casamassima Professor Emiritus, Modern Languages & Philology University of Jamaica Avenue, Queens, N.Y. --=20 ___________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.graffiti.net/ Powered By Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 15:39:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lisa Janssen Subject: Hagerty, Sikelianos, Jenks & more in new journal - MoonLit MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hello all - *MoonLit* is a new arts journal whose inaugural issue is a knockout combination of writing and artwork from a far flung group of fourteen crossover talents: Bill Berkson David Berman Bill Callahan Joel Craig Neil Hagerty Lisa Janssen Philip Jenks Gillian McCain Claire McMahon Ray McNiece Steve Roth Melissa Severin Eleni Sikelianos and Lou Villiare It's available at: http://www.dragcity.com/catalog.html. Stores interested in multiple copies at cost please contact sales@dragcity.com To order directly from me, send check for $7.00ppd to: Lisa Janssen 2652 Logan Blvd. #1F Chicago, IL 60647 We're accepting submissions for issue #2 through Oct. 31, 2006. 3-5 pages, with an SASE. Many thanks to the list members for great advice on printers!! Best, Lisa Janssen ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 16:20:55 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark DuCharme Subject: Re: "civilians" In-Reply-To: <20060731152114.5731.qmail@web88106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Just a quick emergence from lurkerdom, to say that yes, I believe there is a right and a wrong when it comes to killing civilians. Not, I would hasten to add, an ossified and self-serving "right" & "wrong" that resembles the position of the Bush administration, for example. I wouldn't claim it's a simple black and white issue, but in a historical context such as the one in the Mideast, a much more faceted one (i.e., both "sides" have obviously killed their share of civilians-- one of them, to paraphrase, a bit more effectively). But do I think there is a right and wrong to this? Hell yes. Don't you? While there may be no reason for living other than doing so, that doesn't preclude respecting the basic rights of others, even those whom you don't particularly like. I hope that you wrote this in haste, or were just having a bad day, or something. Otherwise, if I understand you correctly, it strikes me as just a bit "sociopathic" (note scare quotes), and not all that removed from the positions of those I would presume you disagree with. Now, while you all argue, if you don't mind I'm going to go back to lurking. And deleting lots of posts unread. Cheers, Mark DuCharme From: "Daniel f. Bradley" Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: "civilians" Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 11:21:13 -0400 sorry but i think there is a point it this that is getting swept away for example people who worked in the World trade Centre were not innocent - NO BODY WORKING FOR THOSE COMPANIES WAS INNOCENT - YOU HAVE TO FUCK OVER A LOT OF PEOPLE TO GET THERE - TO GET THOSE JOBS - do they need to died for that - maybe not - but when people make decisions on how and where they live - there are consequences - if you chose to follow a set of beliefs there are consequence to that AND SOMETIMES THAT MEANS PEOPLE WILL WANT TO KILL YOU FOR REALLY DUMB REASONS what i find strange is the idea that some of you out there seem to think there is a right and wrong to this - are you really that silly to think that any of this (the war - terrorist-Iraq - Israel), is a right and wrong issue - maybe you need to get out more and stop reading the media. maybe you need to stop thinking that there is a reason to living other than living. living makes things die on a small and large scale - and lots of times it will not be for a reason that you like or feel is justified. big deal stop thinking it's all about you Thomas Orange wrote: mark et al: dershowitz is not alone in advancing this kind of thinking; here's the national review's victor davis hanson: "'Civilians' in Lebanon have munitions in their basements and deliberately wish to draw fire; in Israel they are in bunkers to avoid it. Israel uses precision weapons to avoid hitting them; Hezbollah sends random missiles into Israel to ensure they are struck." barbara o'brien offers the following take on this: "I had to read that paragraph several times. Just what is Hanson saying here? He seems to be claiming that Lebanese civilians commonly volunteer to be suicide victims of Israeli attacks. I see that Hanson puts the word civilians in quotation marks, connoting irony — those so-called civilians are not really (wink, nudge) civilians. Is he claiming that the claims of civilian deaths are exaggerated? Is he saying that it’s OK to kill Lebanese civilians because they are asking for it?" yes that seems to be what he's saying... tom orange washington,dc helping to kill your literati star since 2004 http://fhole.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 21:52:13 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Beckett Subject: Issue Two of Otoliths MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just wanted to pass this message on.... Issue 2 of Otoliths has gone live. http://the-otolith.blogspot.com=20 It contains work by Karl Young, Juhana V=C3=A4h=C3=A4nen (translated by Karr= i Kokko),=20 Martin Edmond, Rochelle Ratner, Louise Landes Levi, Cath Vidler, Michael=20 Farrell, Christian Jensen, Ira Joel Haber, Bruce Covey, Jill Jones, Allen Br= amhall,=20 Derek Motion, Caleb Puckett, Sandra Simonds (a mini-chap =E2=80=94 The Tar P= it=20 Diatoms), Vernon Frazer, Pat Nolan, Donald Illich, J.D. Nelson, harry k stam= mer,=20 Steve Tills, David Meltzer, Tom Beckett, Thomas Fink, Crag Hill, Ira Cohen,=20= Carol=20 Jenkins, Miia Toivio, John M. Bennett, Michael Rothenberg, Geof Huth,=20 David-Baptiste Chirot, Aki Salmela, Sandy McIntosh, Michelle Greenblatt, Jan= ne=20 Nummela, Tom Hibbard, Marko J. Niemi, Phil Primeau, Kevin Opstedal, Olli Sin= ivaara,=20 Nico Vassilakis & John M. Bennett, Michael McClure, Pam Brown, Leevi Lehto &= =20 Eileen Tabios.=20 My thanks to all the contributors, and a special note of thanks to Michael=20 Rothenberg, Karri Kokko & Leevi Lehto for their generous assistance in remov= ing=20 some of the degrees of separation.=20 & a reminder that the print on demand editions of Otoliths issue one and its= =20 associated chapbooks from Jean Vengua and from Ray Craig are available from=20 http://www.lulu.com/l_m_young Mark Young ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 18:53:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wallis Leslie Subject: Re: "civilians" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I think it was Richard Wright in _The Man Who Lived Underground_ who alerted me to the possibility that no matter how little money I make or how much garbage I sort and recycle, that I am not innocent. god bless us one and all, Wallis Leslie --------------------------------- See the all-new, redesigned Yahoo.com. Check it out. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 16:54:14 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabrielle Welford Subject: Re: "civilians" In-Reply-To: <20060801015354.72044.qmail@web53804.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT so...what on earth are you guys saying? if none of us are "innocent," whatever that means (is this a biblical, garden of edeny kind of thing?), is that to say, oh ennui, oh nihilism, that we are expendable with a shrug, that it's okay to kill women and children and men who haven't anything to do with waging war? sounds like hume waving his hands with largesse and saying nothing really exists. it's okay then to kill _your_ children and _your_ parents, just another expendable non-innocent? argh. get out of your heads and go make compost! gabe On Mon, 31 Jul 2006, Wallis Leslie wrote: > I think it was Richard Wright in _The Man Who Lived Underground_ who > alerted me to the possibility that no matter how little money I make or > how much garbage I sort and recycle, that I am not innocent. > > god bless us one and all, > Wallis Leslie > > > --------------------------------- > See the all-new, redesigned Yahoo.com. Check it out. > gabrielle welford welford@hawaii.edu Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.595 / Virus Database: 378 - Release Date: 2/25/2004 wilhelm reich anarcho-syndicalism gut/heart/head/earth