========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 00:04:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: civilians MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit why are you ranting about al this innocents have always been killed in droves hiroshima nagasaki the death camps dresden egypt the crusades why all this mental masterbstion and chistoric comparisons that's just the point it's all wrong has alwayds been and none of us know how to stop it just complain about it or intellectualize it thos 50-60 women and children in lebanon thst's now and that's wrong wrong wrong but it's NOW let's not go back to native americans or 1650 or we know our bloody past and euyrope's and asia'sd and middle east and south and central america etc etc etc it's wrong both sides are wrong and unril they decide or the top brass of u.s . tells israel to back off we can talk talk talk rant rant rant for what?> and what a time to plug your wife's book ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 22:26:28 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: civilians Comments: cc: Kass Fleisher In-Reply-To: <20060801.000405.-433775.7.skyplums@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" hey steve: i can put up with a lot of crap, believe me... just search back through the last 13 years of the list archives---you'll find some real juicy exchanges there... but in saying i was "plugging" my wife's book, i merely wanted to disclose the fact that i'm related to the person whose work i'm, uhm, plugging... i was in point of fact responding to a request for info from my friend mark wallace, who asked for info specifically on the *u.s. govt's* approach to civilians in military conflict (not to events prior to 1776)... the book i cited is more than useful in this regard, or so say all of us... and while i'm at it, i think you're dead wrong about the now... the now makes no sense at all w/o a sense of history, and one reason (though surely not the only one) why the now is so fucked up is b/c the people in positions of power have not a clue as to the history they've been busy intervening in with materiel and the like... read patricia nelson limerick's work, for instance, and you get the distinct impression that the situation in iraq might have been avoided had the people in charge studied the history of u.s./native conflict... or perhaps this is wishful thinking?... at any rate, let me put it this way: READ A BOOK, FOR CHRISTSAKES. you can certainly do worse, esp. if you wield power... and if all you bring to this kind of discussion space is a desire to bypass history, well---of course you're free to have at, but to me that's a waste of processing power... now: having explained myself, steve, i'd like to know whether you still feel it's worth your while to jump on my shit? please advise /// joe >why are you ranting about al this innocents have always been killed in >droves hiroshima nagasaki >the death camps dresden > >egypt the crusades > >why all this mental masterbstion and chistoric comparisons >that's just the point it's all wrong has alwayds been >and none of us know how to stop it >just complain about it >or intellectualize it >thos 50-60 women and children in lebanon thst's now >and that's wrong wrong wrong but it's NOW >let's not go back to native americans >or 1650 or >we know our bloody past and euyrope's and asia'sd and middle east >and south and central america etc etc etc > >it's wrong both sides are wrong >and unril they decide or the top brass of u.s . tells israel to back off >we can talk talk talk rant rant rant for what?> > >and what a time to plug your wife's book ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 23:29:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: NYTBR fluffier In-Reply-To: <44D37D51@mtsu20.mtsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit new books On Jul 30, 2006, at 2:15 PM, tb2h wrote: > With the NYTBR getting fluffier and stylish (and obsessed about food) > day by day what does one readd to keep up with new books these days? > > tom bell ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 00:57:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: civilians MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain not to mention the fact that Kass's book is quite good -- On Mon, 31 Jul 2006 22:26:28 +0000, Joe Amato wrote: > hey steve: i can put up with a lot of crap, believe me... just > search back through the last 13 years of the list archives---you'll > find some real juicy exchanges there... > > but in saying i was "plugging" my wife's book, i merely wanted to > disclose the fact that i'm related to the person whose work i'm, uhm, > plugging... i was in point of fact responding to a request for info > from my friend mark wallace, who asked for info specifically on the > *u.s. govt's* approach to civilians in military conflict (not to > events prior to 1776)... the book i cited is more than useful in this > regard, or so say all of us... > > and while i'm at it, i think you're dead wrong about the now... the > now makes no sense at all w/o a sense of history, and one reason > (though surely not the only one) why the now is so fucked up is b/c > the people in positions of power have not a clue as to the history > they've been busy intervening in with materiel and the like... read > patricia nelson limerick's work, for instance, and you get the > distinct impression that the situation in iraq might have been > avoided had the people in charge studied the history of u.s./native > conflict... or perhaps this is wishful thinking?... > > at any rate, let me put it this way: READ A BOOK, FOR CHRISTSAKES. > you can certainly do worse, esp. if you wield power... and if all you > bring to this kind of discussion space is a desire to bypass history, > well---of course you're free to have at, but to me that's a waste of > processing power... > > now: having explained myself, steve, i'd like to know whether you > still feel it's worth your while to jump on my shit? > > please advise > > /// > > joe > > >why are you ranting about al this innocents have always been killed in > >droves hiroshima nagasaki > >the death camps dresden > > > >egypt the crusades > > > >why all this mental masterbstion and chistoric comparisons > >that's just the point it's all wrong has alwayds been > >and none of us know how to stop it > >just complain about it > >or intellectualize it > >thos 50-60 women and children in lebanon thst's now > >and that's wrong wrong wrong but it's NOW > >let's not go back to native americans > >or 1650 or > >we know our bloody past and euyrope's and asia'sd and middle east > >and south and central america etc etc etc > > > >it's wrong both sides are wrong > >and unril they decide or the top brass of u.s . tells israel to back off > >we can talk talk talk rant rant rant for what?> > > > >and what a time to plug your wife's book > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 00:51:54 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fluffy Singler Subject: Re: "civilians" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable That WTC argument is perilously close to Ward Churchill's, which I = always thought reflected a lack of understand about the day to day lives = of "ordinary" people (and thus had an unfortunate way of justifying = criticisms against academics as "removed" from the so-called "real = world".) As someone who has had to work temp for years to support her art and = writing, I can assure you that you don't have to fuck anyone over to be = a secretary (temp or perm) or an entry level office worker or intern = chained to a photocopier and plenty of those died on Tuesday morning = nearly 5 years ago. In this economy, if you want a decent paying job, = you are often going to end up in a corporation that is "evil" to a = greater or lesser extent. There are degrees of choices--such working = for a banking company vs. working for someone that is directly making = the weapons to send to Iraq. And there are degrees of decision making = and involvement in the work of the company. It's been my experience = that most Americans hate their jobs and only those at the very top even = care if the company makes money or not. Making a Powerpoint = presentation for the help desk is hardly on a par with signing a death = warrant to Auschwitz or napalming a village. There are not enough = "pure" jobs for every American to have a decent standard of living (not = even talking about "affluence") without such compromises. The = consequences you speak of are more consequences of being an American in = a global capitalist economy. Or merely the consequence of the accident = of the country and class and family and historical moment you are born = into. I was visiting NYC on 9/11 and staying with some artist friends, one of = whom worked temp as a graphic designer for Lehman Brothers and happened = not to go into work on Tuesday because we had sat up drinking the night = before. So, to put it in the "voice" expressed below: SHE DID NOT FUCK OVER ANYONE TO GET THERE AND GET THAT JOB AND SHE WAS = NOT THAT "INVESTED" IN WHAT THE COMPANY DID OR WHO THEY WERE FUCKING = OVER AND SHE WAS RELATIVELY "INNOCENT" AND JUST TRYING TO PAY THE RENT = ON THE ONE ROOM NOT ZONED TO LIVE IN APARTMENT THEY HAD OVER THE FLOWER = SHOP IN MIDTOWN . . . Anyone who has never had to make these kinds of choices or compromises = to pay their rent and lights and student loans, should thank their lucky = stars for the privilege to be able to maintain that level of purity. =20 Sorry, but I get touchy about these accusations that everyone in those = buildings was somehow "guilty" or more guilty than any other American, = and I hear it repeated way too often on the Left without really being = questioned. That said, regarding the comparison to the Middle East, I agree that = there is no side with a "moral high ground," which perhaps was what you = were trying to say. If you're going to attack America, the Pentagon and = the WTC are the right symbolic and actual targets. But there are = innocent people working there, walking down the street, living next door = just as there are innocent people married to, related to, living with, = living next door to, shopping in the same marketplace as (etc.)people = who carry out terrorist acts (or acts of war, if you prefer).=20 Be careful about those big giant broad generalizations. That's the = mindset that keeps us ending up in these situations in the first place. Cheers. -----Original Message----- From: Daniel f. Bradley [mailto:dfbradley@ROGERS.COM]=20 Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 10:21 AM Subject: Re: "civilians" sorry but i think there is a point it this that is getting swept away = for example =20 =20 people who worked in the World trade Centre were not innocent - NO = BODY WORKING FOR THOSE COMPANIES WAS INNOCENT - YOU HAVE TO FUCK OVER A = LOT OF PEOPLE TO GET THERE - TO GET THOSE JOBS - do they need to died = for that - maybe not - but when people make decisions on how and where = they live - there are consequences - if you chose to follow a set of = beliefs there are consequence to that AND SOMETIMES THAT MEANS PEOPLE = WILL WANT TO KILL YOU FOR REALLY DUMB REASONS =20 what i find strange is the idea that some of you out there seem to = think there is a right and wrong to this - are you really that silly to = think that any of this (the war - terrorist-Iraq - Israel), is a right = and wrong issue - maybe you need to get out more and stop reading the = media. maybe you need to stop thinking that there is a reason to living = other than living. living makes things die on a small and large scale - = and lots of times it will not be for a reason that you like or feel is = justified. =20 big deal=20 =20 stop thinking it's all about you=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Thomas Orange wrote: mark et al: dershowitz is not alone in advancing this kind of thinking; here's the national review's victor davis hanson: "'Civilians' in Lebanon have munitions in their basements and deliberately wish to draw fire; in Israel they are in bunkers to avoid it. Israel uses precision weapons to avoid hitting them; Hezbollah sends random missiles into Israel to ensure they are struck." barbara o'brien offers the following take on this: "I had to read that paragraph several times. Just what is Hanson saying here? He seems to be claiming that Lebanese civilians commonly volunteer to be suicide victims of Israeli attacks. I see that Hanson puts the word civilians in quotation marks, connoting irony = =C3=A2=E2=82=AC=E2=80=9D those so-called civilians are not really (wink, nudge) civilians. Is he claiming that the claims of civilian deaths are exaggerated? Is he saying that = it=C3=A2=E2=82=AC=E2=84=A2s OK to kill Lebanese civilians because they are asking for it?" yes that seems to be what he's saying... tom orange washington,dc helping to kill your literati star since 2004 http://fhole.blogspot.com/ =20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 00:41:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: please cancel mine too MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit thankyou ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 08:03:10 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: L Trent Subject: Issue #1 of 21 Stars Review Comments: To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Issue #1 of 21 Stars Review is out today! http://sundress.net/21stars With contributions from Shane Allison, Aaron Anstett, Ismael Ricardo Archbold, Lindsay Bell, Curtis Bonney, Louis E. Bourgeois, Gilad Elbom, Josh Hanson, Kendra Paredes Hayden, Scott Keeney, Amanda Laughtland, Cat Rambo, Andrew Rihn, Mike Smith, and Laura Madeline Wiseman. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 08:10:17 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Waber Subject: 13 by nick-e melville Comments: To: announce@logolalia.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The minimalist concrete poetry site at: http://www.logolalia.com/minimalistconcretepoetry/ has been updated with 13 pieces by nick-e melville. I am drawn to the clean, the simple, the elegant, the crisp, the sharp, the absolute no-room-for-error stripped down-ness of the minimal. I really dig the leveraging of language's visual properties to augment or multiply meaning. I find all of this in the work of nick-e melville, and I believe you will, too. Enjoy, Dan -- also at logolalia.com: http://www.logolalia.com/alteredbooks/ http://www.logolalia.com/40x365/ http://www.logolalia.com/kitetailpress/ http://www.logolalia.com/untranslatable/ http://www.logolalia.com/beasties/ http://www.logolalia.com/mailart/ http://www.logolalia.com/lettrism3d/ http://www.logolalia.com/cantoos/abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz/ and more. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 09:32:17 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Daniel f. Bradley" Subject: Re: "civilians" In-Reply-To: <000501c6b52e$98940b80$bdde9e04@D48XR971> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sorry, but I get touchy about these accusations that everyone in those buildings was somehow "guilty" or more guilty than any other American, and I hear it repeated way too often on the Left without really being questioned than is my point fluffy - you (we) are all guilty enough (as every other / any other AMERICAN) for some other people to decide that it's ok to take down those buildings or bomb that village or humiliate that prisoner or shoot that cab driver or drive that SUV - people make these decision all the time (throughout all time) - now you can insist that there is a RIGHT and WRONG about it if it makes you sleep better - but guess what, fluffy everyone else is making a decisions that makes them RIGHT too. sometime it's all about being meat. i'm not interested in being a better person i'm interested in being a real person. don't ask me for a solution i'm in the problem identification game solution are for fucking priests, politicians and english teachers . Fluffy Singler wrote: That WTC argument is perilously close to Ward Churchill's, which I always thought reflected a lack of understand about the day to day lives of "ordinary" people (and thus had an unfortunate way of justifying criticisms against academics as "removed" from the so-called "real world".) As someone who has had to work temp for years to support her art and writing, I can assure you that you don't have to fuck anyone over to be a secretary (temp or perm) or an entry level office worker or intern chained to a photocopier and plenty of those died on Tuesday morning nearly 5 years ago. In this economy, if you want a decent paying job, you are often going to end up in a corporation that is "evil" to a greater or lesser extent. There are degrees of choices--such working for a banking company vs. working for someone that is directly making the weapons to send to Iraq. And there are degrees of decision making and involvement in the work of the company. It's been my experience that most Americans hate their jobs and only those at the very top even care if the company makes money or not. Making a Powerpoint presentation for the help desk is hardly on a par with signing a death warrant to Auschwitz or napalming a village. There are not enough "pure" jobs for every American to have a decent standard of living (not even talking about "affluence") without such compromises. The consequences you speak of are more consequences of being an American in a global capitalist economy. Or merely the consequence of the accident of the country and class and family and historical moment you are born into. I was visiting NYC on 9/11 and staying with some artist friends, one of whom worked temp as a graphic designer for Lehman Brothers and happened not to go into work on Tuesday because we had sat up drinking the night before. So, to put it in the "voice" expressed below: SHE DID NOT FUCK OVER ANYONE TO GET THERE AND GET THAT JOB AND SHE WAS NOT THAT "INVESTED" IN WHAT THE COMPANY DID OR WHO THEY WERE FUCKING OVER AND SHE WAS RELATIVELY "INNOCENT" AND JUST TRYING TO PAY THE RENT ON THE ONE ROOM NOT ZONED TO LIVE IN APARTMENT THEY HAD OVER THE FLOWER SHOP IN MIDTOWN . . . Anyone who has never had to make these kinds of choices or compromises to pay their rent and lights and student loans, should thank their lucky stars for the privilege to be able to maintain that level of purity. . That said, regarding the comparison to the Middle East, I agree that there is no side with a "moral high ground," which perhaps was what you were trying to say. If you're going to attack America, the Pentagon and the WTC are the right symbolic and actual targets. But there are innocent people working there, walking down the street, living next door just as there are innocent people married to, related to, living with, living next door to, shopping in the same marketplace as (etc.)people who carry out terrorist acts (or acts of war, if you prefer). Be careful about those big giant broad generalizations. That's the mindset that keeps us ending up in these situations in the first place. Cheers. -----Original Message----- From: Daniel f. Bradley [mailto:dfbradley@ROGERS.COM] Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 10:21 AM Subject: Re: "civilians" sorry but i think there is a point it this that is getting swept away for example people who worked in the World trade Centre were not innocent - NO BODY WORKING FOR THOSE COMPANIES WAS INNOCENT - YOU HAVE TO FUCK OVER A LOT OF PEOPLE TO GET THERE - TO GET THOSE JOBS - do they need to died for that - maybe not - but when people make decisions on how and where they live - there are consequences - if you chose to follow a set of beliefs there are consequence to that AND SOMETIMES THAT MEANS PEOPLE WILL WANT TO KILL YOU FOR REALLY DUMB REASONS what i find strange is the idea that some of you out there seem to think there is a right and wrong to this - are you really that silly to think that any of this (the war - terrorist-Iraq - Israel), is a right and wrong issue - maybe you need to get out more and stop reading the media. maybe you need to stop thinking that there is a reason to living other than living. living makes things die on a small and large scale - and lots of times it will not be for a reason that you like or feel is justified. big deal stop thinking it's all about you Thomas Orange wrote: mark et al: dershowitz is not alone in advancing this kind of thinking; here's the national review's victor davis hanson: "'Civilians' in Lebanon have munitions in their basements and deliberately wish to draw fire; in Israel they are in bunkers to avoid it. Israel uses precision weapons to avoid hitting them; Hezbollah sends random missiles into Israel to ensure they are struck." barbara o'brien offers the following take on this: "I had to read that paragraph several times. Just what is Hanson saying here? He seems to be claiming that Lebanese civilians commonly volunteer to be suicide victims of Israeli attacks. I see that Hanson puts the word civilians in quotation marks, connoting irony — those so-called civilians are not really (wink, nudge) civilians. Is he claiming that the claims of civilian deaths are exaggerated? Is he saying that it’s OK to kill Lebanese civilians because they are asking for it?" yes that seems to be what he's saying... tom orange washington,dc helping to kill your literati star since 2004 http://fhole.blogspot.com/ helping to kill your literati star since 2004 http://fhole.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 10:42:19 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: YELLOW or Artaud's Oatmeal (AKA, the Coward of Philadelphia) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is more than a complaint about the recent personal attacks against Jessica Smith on her blog's comment box. It's the anonymity of the attacker which infuriates and disgusts me the most. Artaud's Oatmeal is the pseudonym used, which I firmly believe is the very same poet also using the Spicer Girl pseudonym on occasion. Maybe I want them to be the same, force them into one because I can't bear the thought of more than one cowardly poet in Philadelphia. Spicer Girl openly admitted the home base, while Artaud's Oatmeal was tracked by Jessica's ISP to Philadelphia. Courage is in short supply it seems some days, but is it wrong to expect MORE from poets? What kind of world are you manifesting Artaud's Oatmeal? How is it possible you found the courage to create poems but lack the courage to stand behind your convictions? And, furthermore, is the IRONY LOST ON YOU that you choose Artaud and Spicer, two very strong poets who hid for no one, for nothing? How dare you! You scum! And what DRIVES you to hide behind these masks I wonder? Is it that you don't want to jeopardize some magical poetry "career" festering in your imagination? Isn't it BETTER to be hated for what you believe than to be liked because no one really knows your beliefs? You are pathetic! Artaud and Spicer would vomit in your direction for using their names as your weapon! If you ever admit your true identity, I promise to make certain everyone knows who you were when you were busy pretending to be so tough. By the way, are you moving out of Philadelphia soon-- I HOPE!? Isn't it bad enough the carpet bagger real estate bastards have arrived to destroy our beautiful brownstones and community gardens for their luxury condominiums? Is it asking too fucking much for our poets to be honest here? Completely fucking disgusted, CAConrad _http://PhillySound.blogspot.com_ (http://phillysound.blogspot.com/) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 10:09:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: unintentional poetics: homeless peaches MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable this was sent out by a coworker . . . =20 ________________________________ From: Patti Soler=20 Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 6:22 Subject: homeless peaches D4 S727 Across from bryan =20 =20 OK---there are homeless peaches in D4 S727 =20 ...i been picking peaches... ...and i keep eating peaches... ...but there's still lots of peaches...=20 ...and they dont hold for too long..... =20 The hot & dry has been kinda tough on ripening process. We grow organic. They haven't had a bath, either, poor things. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 11:29:53 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: susan maurer Subject: Re: unintentional poetics: homeless peaches In-Reply-To: <54AA9B41BC35F34EAD02E660901D8A5A07ACB35F@TLRUSMNEAGMBX10.ERF.THOMSON.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed loved it sm >From: "Tom W. Lewis" >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: unintentional poetics: homeless peaches >Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 10:09:13 -0500 > >this was sent out by a coworker . . . > > > >________________________________ > >From: Patti Soler >Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 6:22 >Subject: homeless peaches D4 S727 Across from bryan > > > > > >OK---there are homeless peaches in D4 S727 > > > >...i been picking peaches... > >...and i keep eating peaches... > >...but there's still lots of peaches... > >...and they dont hold for too long..... > > > >The hot & dry has been kinda tough on ripening process. > >We grow organic. > >They haven't had a bath, either, poor things. _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 12:39:06 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Blackbox submissions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello everyone, The submission period for the Blackbox summer gallery is now open, and will close on Monday, August 14th. I apologize for the very short window for submissions, but my own latest book is going to press -- and with proofs, corrections, distribution, cataloging, etc., I simply don't have much time for Blackbox this time around. I don't want to miss a gallery, but I must get it on line fairly quickly. Remember to please follow the guidelines on the Blackbox page. Go to WilliamJamesAustin.com and follow the Blackbox link to access the guidelines and to check out the galleries. Be sure to submit to Blackboxwja@aol.com. I've set up that address for the sole purpose of receiving submissions. I get so much mail, including lots of spam, at the Austinwja address, that it's possible I will accidentally delete a submission sent to that address. It happened once, and I don't want it to happen again. I value each and every submission that comes my way. As always, sincere thanks to all of you who contribute to, and support, my project. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com KojaPress.com SPDbooks.org Amazon.com BarnesandNoble.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 09:54:48 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: The cigarette sits on the desk before me --> Xanax Pop by Lewis LaCook Comments: To: lewis@lewislacook.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The cigarette sits on the desk before me Webster's defines "Public Speech" as: It's like sleeping in water breathing in water it's like, beads of sweat popping inside your clothes in little wet flowers, little wet mouths. The cigarette sits on the desk before me. How long have I inhabited this divine confusion, where you define finitude as somewhat slanted and enchanted? Five common PHP design patterns, she says, but while she sleeps this sleek sincere elation. I haven't been outside in days. It's a bit like holding your breath until your blood cries out from the dust, froid, froid, froid! You've seen that movie, haven't you? In your sleep your hair dances within the currents. I crush my breath out on it as it waves by, and I think about the many ways we have to represent water, how hard it is for 3-D Computer Graphics to represent these in-betweens of states of mater, liquid and haze, smoke and ocean, fire, fire, fire. I think too of the gradations. There is only the Literal, my dear, and these shades are just other states we know exist, but rarely touch. Why do we limit what we know to these abrupt endings? *************************************************************************** ||http://www.lewislacook.org|| sign up now! poetry, code, forums, blogs, newsfeeds... || http://www.corporatepa.com || Everything creative for business -- New York Web Design and Consulting Corporate Performance Artists --------------------------------- Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 11:40:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: Call For Submissions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --- Call for Submissions Title: Iconoclasts and Visionaries, a Levantine anthology Editor: Jordan Elgrably Deadline: September 30, 2006 Publication: Winter 2007 To celebrate the fifth anniversary of Levantine Cultural Center in Los Angeles, the editor seeks contributions of creative nonfiction (essay, travel, first-person narrative), short stories, poetry, one-act plays, art and photography for "Iconoclasts and Visionaries, a Levantine anthology". The title choice reflects a fundamental belief that artists and writers are often iconoclasts and visionaries by virtue of their pan-cultural, activist approach-rarely allowing politics, religion or other such considerations to stop them from crossing literal or figurative borders. Often in the U.S. media, the countries and cultures of North Africa and the Middle East are presented through a lens of conflict. The language of the "clash of civilizations" or Orientalism creates a pervasive sense of "us and them." The contributions in this anthology intend to serve as a counterweight to such dichotomous thinking. The anthology should create a rich reading and visual experience that ultimately defies myth and stereotype about Arab/Muslim or other West Asian cultures. Contributions that focus on personal experience over academic writing or journalism are preferred. Complex thinking that emphasizes the nuances of culture and identity, rather than narrow political or religious arguments, is welcome. Contributors need not be ethnically Middle Eastern to have their work considered. Maximum word length for nonfiction, short stories and one-act plays is 3,000 words. Poetry, submit a maximum of three poems of any length. Art/photography, submit up to five images in low-res jpg format for previewing. All manuscripts submitted by September 30, 2006 will be considered. Unpublished submissions are preferred, but previously published work will be considered. Contributors will receive three copies of the book upon publication and an honorarium. Submit manuscripts and visual work to jordane@levantinecenter.org or via snail mail to Levantine Center, 8424A Santa Monica Blvd., N. 789, West Hollywood CA 90069. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 13:52:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Cope Subject: Oppen's Collected/Kenner Quote MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; DelSp=Yes; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline Does anyone have a copy of Oppen's COLLECTED POEMS (not the New, not the Selected). I'm trying to track down Kenner's blurb on the back cover, something about "an oeuvre growing" for twenty-five years... An exact quote would be much appreciated. Thanks! Stephen Cope (backchannel: stephen.cope@drake.edu) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 12:02:38 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lou Rowan Subject: Re: Oppen's Collected/Kenner Quote In-Reply-To: <20060801135217.2zgzn0lt8kg4skog@webmail.drake.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed "At long last, in his sixty-eighth year, George Oppen's work can be had in one volume instead of five-lus: twenty-four pages of new poems, annexed to a handsome resetting of earlier books. Those were thin books, and particiaption in the bulk of a single volume now changes the import of every poem. Ther first sequence dates from l934. All these years academe (alas) is about to discover, and Oeuvre has been growing." Hi Stephen, Lou >From: Stephen Cope >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Oppen's Collected/Kenner Quote >Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 13:52:17 -0500 > >Does anyone have a copy of Oppen's COLLECTED POEMS (not the New, not the >Selected). I'm trying to track down Kenner's blurb on the back cover, >something about "an oeuvre growing" for twenty-five years... > >An exact quote would be much appreciated. > >Thanks! >Stephen Cope >(backchannel: stephen.cope@drake.edu) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 14:06:44 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: more on federal indian policy... Comments: cc: Kass Fleisher Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" this is from MY WIFE kass (fleisher), who is preoccupied at the moment with other matters... more on u.s. federal indian policy---and perhaps some will see an eerie parallel or two with the current traumas... best, joe At 1:27 PM -0600 8/1/06, Kass Fleisher wrote: >as for u.s. policies wrt genocide, bear river (1863) was certainly >the most public and most horrific of the turning points in what >academics call "federal indian policy"; it was preceded by the >orders given to kit carson in arizona in 1862, when he was told to >eradicate the apache. carson's orders were more local and less >specific than what stanton (secretary of war) discussed with col. >connor (california militia stationed near bear river) in 1863 in >idaho/utah. carson's orders came with a bit of a >you-know-what-i-mean wink, while stanton's MAKE THIS GO AWAY (so to >speak) to connor were fairly explicit. lincoln's papers on the >subject are utterly silent. given his obsessive attention to all >things military, tho, it's an excellent bet that he gave an oral >consent of some sort. that this prolific writer didn't record his >new position on natives all but assures us that he knew he was >allowing something radically wrong. > >it's worth noting, altho it's not quite on the subject, that states >took indian policy into their own hands from time to time, as the >minnesota militia did in 1862 following the dakota war. there has >rarely been a public more horrifyingly bloodthirsty than the >minnesotans, in late 1862 and after. their behavior wrt the mass >execution of 38 dakota warriors (these days they'd be labeled >terrorists...) was truly vicious. it was the day after christmas, >and thousands turned out in their holiday best to cheer on the >hangings. lincoln sent in militia to keep the whites from assaulting >other natives, not to control the defeated natives. truly >terrifying. minnesotans wanted to hang 390; lincoln walked a careful >political line and allowed 10% of that number. none of the dead had >the benefit of a fair trial. during the war, the dakota killed 500 >whites, very few of them women and children (they took 200 of these >latter captive); ultimately the "kill ratio" slanted grossly in >favor of the whites during the war and after, with all of the dakota >removed from the territory. the removal killed an untold many. > >i can't prove this, but it's my sense that the minnesota experience >is what convinced lincoln that the shift in policy, which ended the >treaty era, had to be effected. bear river occurred 4 1/2 weeks >later. > >the u.s. citizenry didn't catch wind of the never-debated shift in >policy until 1864 when sand creek happened and 3 investigations (one >congressional) were launched in 1865. but the practice remained in >force until 1890. > >in an attempt to locate the earliest events, tho, it might be worth >looking at jackson's orders in the 1830s wrt the cherokee, etc., who >were perched on southeastern gold. what we now call the trail of >tears was not the result of a "please kill 1000 men, women and >children"-type order, but jackson's papers make it clear that if >he'd known the removal would result in same he would have welcomed >it warmly. > >the colonial period, of course, saw the worst of this kind of thing. >mystic massacre: 500 units of "collateral damage." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 10:20:44 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabrielle Welford Subject: Re: more on federal indian policy... In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT hi joe and thanks. i agree that history has everything to do with this. it isn't just now. and, as i said before, it started way before the 1800s. the existence of the united states is based on slaughter. the puritans thought nothing of wholesale slaughter. after king philip's war there were only _400_ (that's 400) wampanoags left. anyone read _american holocaust_ by haunaui kay trask's partner (can't remember his name right now)? i edited a dissertation by a guy in poli sci at uh manoa--he was saying, and i agree, that a state that gets its nationhood by terrorism will continue as a terroristic state. that's what we've got. same with england and the normans. same with lots of countries. best, gabe On Tue, 1 Aug 2006, Joe Amato wrote: > this is from MY WIFE kass (fleisher), who is preoccupied at the > moment with other matters... more on u.s. federal indian policy---and > perhaps some will see an eerie parallel or two with the current > traumas... > > best, > > joe > > At 1:27 PM -0600 8/1/06, Kass Fleisher wrote: > >as for u.s. policies wrt genocide, bear river (1863) was certainly > >the most public and most horrific of the turning points in what > >academics call "federal indian policy"; it was preceded by the > >orders given to kit carson in arizona in 1862, when he was told to > >eradicate the apache. carson's orders were more local and less > >specific than what stanton (secretary of war) discussed with col. > >connor (california militia stationed near bear river) in 1863 in > >idaho/utah. carson's orders came with a bit of a > >you-know-what-i-mean wink, while stanton's MAKE THIS GO AWAY (so to > >speak) to connor were fairly explicit. lincoln's papers on the > >subject are utterly silent. given his obsessive attention to all > >things military, tho, it's an excellent bet that he gave an oral > >consent of some sort. that this prolific writer didn't record his > >new position on natives all but assures us that he knew he was > >allowing something radically wrong. > > > >it's worth noting, altho it's not quite on the subject, that states > >took indian policy into their own hands from time to time, as the > >minnesota militia did in 1862 following the dakota war. there has > >rarely been a public more horrifyingly bloodthirsty than the > >minnesotans, in late 1862 and after. their behavior wrt the mass > >execution of 38 dakota warriors (these days they'd be labeled > >terrorists...) was truly vicious. it was the day after christmas, > >and thousands turned out in their holiday best to cheer on the > >hangings. lincoln sent in militia to keep the whites from assaulting > >other natives, not to control the defeated natives. truly > >terrifying. minnesotans wanted to hang 390; lincoln walked a careful > >political line and allowed 10% of that number. none of the dead had > >the benefit of a fair trial. during the war, the dakota killed 500 > >whites, very few of them women and children (they took 200 of these > >latter captive); ultimately the "kill ratio" slanted grossly in > >favor of the whites during the war and after, with all of the dakota > >removed from the territory. the removal killed an untold many. > > > >i can't prove this, but it's my sense that the minnesota experience > >is what convinced lincoln that the shift in policy, which ended the > >treaty era, had to be effected. bear river occurred 4 1/2 weeks > >later. > > > >the u.s. citizenry didn't catch wind of the never-debated shift in > >policy until 1864 when sand creek happened and 3 investigations (one > >congressional) were launched in 1865. but the practice remained in > >force until 1890. > > > >in an attempt to locate the earliest events, tho, it might be worth > >looking at jackson's orders in the 1830s wrt the cherokee, etc., who > >were perched on southeastern gold. what we now call the trail of > >tears was not the result of a "please kill 1000 men, women and > >children"-type order, but jackson's papers make it clear that if > >he'd known the removal would result in same he would have welcomed > >it warmly. > > > >the colonial period, of course, saw the worst of this kind of thing. > >mystic massacre: 500 units of "collateral damage." > gabrielle welford welford@hawaii.edu Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.595 / Virus Database: 378 - Release Date: 2/25/2004 wilhelm reich anarcho-syndicalism gut/heart/head/earth ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 17:45:06 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: A Message from Ed Foster MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The American poet and publisher James L. Weil died July 7. Born in New York=20 in 1929, he studied at the University of Chicago and Oxford before becoming=20= a=20 businessman, retiring as senior vice-president of the Dialight Corporation i= n=20 1968. Weil lived in New Rochelle, New York, where he founded the Elizabeth=20 Press, one of the most important publishers of American poetry in the 1960s=20= and=20 1970s. His authors included William Bronk, John Taggart, and Theodore Enslin= ,=20 among many others. In later years, he published exquisitely designed chapboo= ks=20 of works by John Keats. Weil was much respected among his peers as an=20 accomplished poet. Among his better known works is "A Coney Island Life": =A0 Having lived a Coney Island life on roller coaster ups and downs and seen my helium hopes break skyward without me, now arms filled with dolls I threw so much for I take perhaps my last ride on this planet-carousel and ask how many more times round I have to catch that brass-ring-sun before the game is up. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 17:54:06 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: civilians MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The attacking of civilians as part of a war of wills, knowing well that it=20 will not kill many soldiers, is integral to World War II where airplanes pla= y a=20 curcial part: the air raids on London, Dresden, Tokyo. Hiroshima, Nagasaki. In Godard's movie, "Notre Muzique, Godard himself show a group of people in=20 Sarajevo the photo of a completely bombed out urban landscape, with empty=20 shells of buildings, asking what city did the photo showed. The answer turns= out to=20 be Richmond during the Civil War. Murat In a message dated 07/31/06 12:39:32 PM, markwallace1322@YAHOO.COM writes: > Maybe I should have clarified my question. I meant the > first concerted instance of U.S. war policy directed > primarily against civilians who they understood to be > civilians. There's no entity called the U.S. in the > 17th century. >=20 > I'm not sure whether the Trail of Tears, for instance, > is warfare as such, and I doubt that the term > civilians would have been applied to the Cherokees (my > point here is not to excuse that event). >=20 > Local massacres of civilians are of course common in > all sorts of historical situations--but what I'm > looking for is the historical moment(s) in which it > becomes conscious U.S. military policy to attack > civilians FIRST, instead of as a byproduct of already > ongoing battles between armies. >=20 > Which raises another historical question, which is at > what moment did the concept of "civilians" come to be > separated from the idea of a nation as such? Civilians > as a transnational concept? Anybody know? >=20 > Mark >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > >But the conscious killing of civlians as an essential > >element of military strategy has been more or less a > >standard practice of war for some centuries at least. > >I'm no expert, but is Sherman's march across Georgia > >the first U.S. instance of war by massive destruction > >of civilian life? >=20 >=20 > Try the Indian wars of the 17th century. Both sides > killed women and > children, the English rather more effectively. >=20 >=20 >=20 > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam?=A0 Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com >=20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 14:57:29 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: civilians In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE The attacking of civillians goes back to the beginning of our civilization = when the Galactic Overlord Xenu cast billions of civilians into a volcano a= nd snuffed out the life of our clam-like pre-historic ancestors. On Tue, 1 Aug 2006, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > The attacking of civilians as part of a war of wills, knowing well that i= t > will not kill many soldiers, is integral to World War II where airplanes = play a > curcial part: the air raids on London, Dresden, Tokyo. Hiroshima, Nagasak= i. > > In Godard's movie, "Notre Muzique, Godard himself show a group of people = in > Sarajevo the photo of a completely bombed out urban landscape, with empty > shells of buildings, asking what city did the photo showed. The answer tu= rns out to > be Richmond during the Civil War. > > Murat > > > In a message dated 07/31/06 12:39:32 PM, markwallace1322@YAHOO.COM writes= : > > >> Maybe I should have clarified my question. I meant the >> first concerted instance of U.S. war policy directed >> primarily against civilians who they understood to be >> civilians. There's no entity called the U.S. in the >> 17th century. >> >> I'm not sure whether the Trail of Tears, for instance, >> is warfare as such, and I doubt that the term >> civilians would have been applied to the Cherokees (my >> point here is not to excuse that event). >> >> Local massacres of civilians are of course common in >> all sorts of historical situations--but what I'm >> looking for is the historical moment(s) in which it >> becomes conscious U.S. military policy to attack >> civilians FIRST, instead of as a byproduct of already >> ongoing battles between armies. >> >> Which raises another historical question, which is at >> what moment did the concept of "civilians" come to be >> separated from the idea of a nation as such? Civilians >> as a transnational concept? Anybody know? >> >> Mark >> >> >> >> >>> But the conscious killing of civlians as an essential >>> element of military strategy has been more or less a >>> standard practice of war for some centuries at least. >>> I'm no expert, but is Sherman's march across Georgia >>> the first U.S. instance of war by massive destruction >>> of civilian life? >> >> >> Try the Indian wars of the 17th century. Both sides >> killed women and >> children, the English rather more effectively. >> >> >> >> __________________________________________________ >> Do You Yahoo!? >> Tired of spam?=A0 Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >> http://mail.yahoo.com >> > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 21:07:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Fwd: LAUNCHING the new How2: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > > >VOYAGE INTO GEOSPACE >How2 Vol.2 Issue 4 > >Launching a new issue of How2 journal... >VOYAGE INTO GEOSPACE >Vol. 2 Issue 4 >http://how2journal.com > >A galactic range of poems, critical reviews and papers... with >special features on Pacific poetries, innovation in contemporary >Indian writing, 'outer alphabets' and London innovation, forums on >small press publishing and bookarts, contemporary Chinese poetry in >translation and tributes to Barbara Guest > > >PACIFIC POETRIES + edited by Susan M. Schultz + featuring Tusiata >Avia + Pam Brown + Faye Kicknosway + Selina Tusitala Marsh + Deborah >Meadows + Meredith Quartermain + Barbara Jane Reyes + Shin Yu Pai + >Hazel Smith + Teresia Teaiwa + Zhang Er + and an interview by Jane >Sprague with Susan Schultz on 'Tinfish Press' > >INDIAN INNOVATION * edited by Mani Rao * featuring Jane Bhandari * >Priya Surukkai Chabria * Sampurna Chattarji * Mamang Dai * Minal >Hajratwala + Jam Ismail * Kavita Jindal * Smita Rajan * Mani Rao * >Archna Sahni * Rati Saxena * Menka Shivdasani * Arundhathi >Subramaniam > >OUTER ALPHABETS = edited by Kate Fagan = featuring Jill Magi = >Claire Hero = Chris Turnbull = Beth Bretl = Kristi Maxwell = >Heather Woods = Marthe Reed = Evelyn Reilly = Mary Kasimor = Britta >Kallevang = Arpine Grenier = A. K. Allin = Sascha Akhtar = Mary >Michaels = Jennifer Firestone = Cristina Bellodi = Masha Tupitsyn = >Megan Jones = Claire Potter = Marie Buck = Ellen Baxt = Jenny Boully >= Bronwen Tate = Michelle Detorie = Sarah Vap = Sarah Dowling > >LONDON CALLING + edited by Redell Olsen + featuring Rosheen Brennan >+ Emily Critchley + Kai Fierle-Hedrick + Kristen Kreider + Frances >Kruk + Marianne Morris + Sophie Robinson + Lydia White > >CONTEMPORARY CHINESE POETRY IN TRANSLATION = edited by Zhang Er and >Chen Dongdong = featuring Cao Shuying = Lan Lan = Ma Lan = Tang >Danhong = Zhang Er = Zhang Zhen = Zhao Xia = Zhou Za > >BOOKARTS FEATURE * curated by Susan Johanknecht * with Sarah Jacobs >* Lin Charlston * A C Berkheiser * Sharon Kivland * Heather Weston * >Emily Artinian * Anna Trethewey > >SMALL PRESS PUBLISHING FORUM = convened by Jane Sprague = Daniel >Bouchard = Mary Burger = Allison Cobb = Kristen Gallagher = Jocelyn >Saidenberg = Judith Goldman = Rachel Levitsky = Jill Magi = Bill >Marsh = Anna Moschovakis = Elizabeth Robinson = Kaia Sand > >Plus new work by Linda Mari Walker, Joyelle McSweeney, Ren Powell, >Randall Couch > >And reviews of Barbara Guest, Kathleen Fraser, Rachel Blau >DuPlessis, Brenda Iijima, Catherine Daly, Thalia Field, Andrea >Baker, Catherine Wagner, Ann Lauterbach, Elizabeth Willis, Lisa >Fishman, Pam Rehm & Gertrude Stein > > >Editor: Kate Fagan (Sydney) >Managing Editor: Redell Olsen (London) >Designer: John Sparrow (Arizona) > >Please visit the new How archives: >http://www.how2journal.com/archive/ >Reply to this message if you no longer wish to receive >announcements... thank you ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 22:11:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: August Chicagopostmodernpoetry.com Profiles- Joshua Clover, Bob Marcacci, Book Review of Steve Davenport's New book MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Friends of Chicagopostmodernpoetry.com: Please check out our latest update from Hot Chicago- August Chicago Postmodernpoetry.com is up Poetic Profiles Joshua Clover Bob Marcacci New Book Review By Garin Cycholl Uncontainable Noise Steve Davenport Also check out the schedules for two Chicago reading series Series A and Discrete with others to follow Raymond L Bianchi chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/ collagepoetchicago.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 23:20:47 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AMBogle2@AOL.COM Subject: Post War by F.S. Rosa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/1/06 7:10:42 PM Central Daylight Time, brent@spdbooks.org writes: > POST WAR AND OTHER STORIES > by Rosa, F. S. > $12.95 / paper / pp.124 > Ithuriel's Spear, 2006 > ISBN: 0-9749502-2-X > Fiction. It's the quarter century before the new millennium. In these > stories, Lena Rossi, perplexed speck in the human continuum, wanders through a last > epic party in 1970's San Francisco, before the rents go through the roof and > the thrift stores have been picked clean. Dogs howl and she follows them > through the Church Street Safeway and the hippie trails of India, while the > ghosts of Italian WW II POW's drink homemade liquor in their old prison camp in > the Presidio. Author Kevin Killian calls these stories "indelible monuments of > the original new narrative movement," and Robert Gluck says they are > "sarcastic, irreverent, hilarious and somber while they exemplify a great > conscience." > > http://www.spdbooks.org/details.asp?bookid=097495022X > Has anyone read this book? Does anyone know whether it was written in the 1970s or recently? I downloaded the title story and read that. It is "new narrative." The blurb suggests that it is part of the history of that movement, which is intriguing, but there is no foreword that I see or other explanation of it. AMB ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 21:17:00 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: Drive-By Quillers #000005 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Drive-By Quillers #000005 August Highland Auchterto... terrorism is working. By hog, is ||||||||||||||||||||||| encyclopediaFurthermore, and must Israel's War Against [ More results from ||||||||||||||||||||||| rockets into Israel, in ___________ _________________ _________________ - Similar pages ___________ ||||||||cache|||||||||| together in small bowl, ___________ analysis for everyone fattening pigs for pork, much ___________ our _________________ =reutersEdge&storyID=-- bacontarian It's not war crimes. Against Lebanon's Shi'a crimesSo ___________ have several ... On BreakfastHundreds Lebanon. 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Pork, bacon, rendered concern, more than ||||||||||||||||||||||| poultry, beef ...Country us can deadliest day for Bacon RoundName, Pork beef and pork bacon. _________________ tribe.netCloning May ||||||||||||||||||||||| bacon, butter Mark for Pork, Bacon and _________________ Israel's war with wrote, "Few ___________ crimesSo ___________ SECOND necessary Against ___________ War, ||||||||||||||||||||| _________________ government and public TerrorismMr. HaCohen's collection ___________ _________________ Lebanese Shi'ite ... ... ___________ BaconNow you can have solution ___________ ___________ Israeli Left is almost ||||||||||||||||||||||| now they are attacking sobering reason ... But Press ReleasesA study by War clouds - Los Angeles -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/405 - Release Date: 8/1/2006 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 21:22:45 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Wallace Subject: civilians MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks to Catherine, Joe, Tom, Kass, Murat and others for their interesting answers to my questions. A couple of points occur to me: it seems then that we're looking at less than a 50-year window, at best, between the defining of "civilian" as a term in English and the U.S. decision that attacking civilians before attacking armies might be the way to win wars or murder and destroy dissident populations (and leaving the issue of elsewhere in the world aside for the moment, such as 19th century British colonies). To be identified as a civilian is to be highlighted as non-military, and therefore quickly and specifically targeted. It's interesting and terrifying to see how this fact parallels other identifying terms for groups and the repurcussions that follow; the concept of the homosexual in the 1890s, for instance. I wonder if the term "civilian" was created originally within the military. Lastly, it's very striking that the changes in U.S. policy towards Indians and Sherman's march on Georgia happen essentially within a year or two of each other. I wonder if anyone has looked at the connection of these two things? Mark __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 21:23:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: Drive-By Quillers #000003 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=response Drive-By Quillers #000003 August Highland reared under very ... _________________ front war. ... and with OneWorld US Home Middle East Report, is Middle East Report ___________ Qassam Jul , "We scream out to bacon, ham, pork and ___________ _________________ in ___________ region if East ___________ Damn Funny Pictures - means to Lebanon by Sonia Knox, business, economy and _________________ recognized for using _________________ |mideast_conflict George Bush thought that deadliest day for ___________ Jordanian northern Israel and its Carbs in - Pork, bacon - War One at ___________ Heritage Pork Bacon. Zone ...Hundreds Israeli army's latest Imports_________________ ||||||||||||||||||||||| Blumenthal: ___________ ||||||||||||||||||||||| Pork Ireland, Bacon, ___________ investigate violations or off ___________ edge ||||||||||||||||||||||| Syrup Pork bacon in . IsraelThe vast majority Best Ever BBQ Pork Bacon conflict Beef&Dairy Products, boiled, . Pork Sausages, For ... 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Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/405 - Release Date: 8/1/2006 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 01:44:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: civilians In-Reply-To: <20060802042245.877.qmail@web60019.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed My great grandmother was the only surviving member of the large group of Ojibway Indians of which she was a part who had been herded aboard trains to supposedly be taken to a reservation. The blankets given everyone were infected with smallpox--biological warfare courtesy the US Govt. The word civilian comes from the Romans and passed into English very long ago via French, as originally a term for a ciivil judge, un civilien. I found on line some letters by Cicero iin which he reminesecnces with friends about their cilvilian ife. The distinction is clearly made between civilian and the military, and also later between civilian and the ecclesiastical. Different laws apply among them. The slaughter of civilians is as old as war. The Roman conquest of Carthage for example--everyone killed, everything razed to the ground, and the ground covered in salt so that nothing would grow where Carthage had been. Agent Orange anyone? Or the irradiated landscapes in Iraq from the First Gulf War and the present one. And what of Troy? And countless populations through countless periods of time, the world over. I was reading today about the Cathars, their extraordinary culture, religion, society. When war on them was declared by the Pope, accompanied by the first verison of the Inquisition, before it found its famous home in Spain, it was a war of total extermination. It was from this war of genocide that came the famous saying--"Kill them all and let God sort them out." This was the reply given by a commander when one of his men asked how they could possibly proceed against the population when there was no way to tell a Cathar apart from a non-Cathar. About ten days ago I saw an interview with a top ranking Israeli official explaining the "reasons" why it is justified to be wiping out the Palestinians in Gaza and destroying Lebanon to save it from Hezbollah. The "reasons" given were eerily similar to a speech I had read given by a US Federal Commander on the eve of attacking an Indian settlement and killing everyone in it--at the time almost al women and children as the men were outside the settlement to keep the slaughter away from their families. While reflecting on this, a parallel often drawn, (the USA vs Indians, the Israeli treatment of Palestinians), a commentator came on and showed on the screen a quote from a Nazi Commander which was literally word for word the same as the Israeli's. Remember that during the American Civil War in both th North and South were brutal prison camps in which prisoners were beaten, tortured, starved to death. This same inhuman treatment had been given to the slave population and to the Indians being rounded up and transferred to the concentration camps of remote reservations--the difference being that these were not soldiers. The term civilian comes from "civilis" and has to do with living in the city, being bound to the laws of the city, and also making a distinction between the city dweller's "civil" manners and those of the rude "barabarians" and country dwellers, peasants, etc. "Civilian" conveys a sense of lawful and also civilized behaviour, hence certainly non-military! This ideal is at the heart of having civilians in charge of the military, as is supposed to be the case in the USA. The difference between a State and a terrorist is that the state has a military, a territory, a government. The state can commit terrorist acts on a far greater scale than any terrorist, who is in many ways when not literally as are the Palestinians or were the American Indians and the European Jews, civilians without a "civilis" in the terms on which States agree. The terms "terrorism" and the modern "citizen" both emerged from the French Revolution. That's been an important linking ever since, for the State to make and use in its justifications, and for the citizen to see as a final resort against the State's terrorism. >From: Mark Wallace >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: civilians >Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 21:22:45 -0700 > >Thanks to Catherine, Joe, Tom, Kass, Murat and others >for their interesting answers to my questions. > >A couple of points occur to me: it seems then that >we're looking at less than a 50-year window, at best, >between the defining of "civilian" as a term in >English and the U.S. decision that attacking civilians >before attacking armies might be the way to win wars >or murder and destroy dissident populations (and >leaving the issue of elsewhere in the world aside for >the moment, such as 19th century British colonies). To >be identified as a civilian is to be highlighted as >non-military, and therefore quickly and specifically >targeted. It's interesting and terrifying to see how >this fact parallels other identifying terms for groups >and the repurcussions that follow; the concept of the >homosexual in the 1890s, for instance. > >I wonder if the term "civilian" was created originally >within the military. > >Lastly, it's very striking that the changes in U.S. >policy towards Indians and Sherman's march on Georgia >happen essentially within a year or two of each other. >I wonder if anyone has looked at the connection of >these two things? > >Mark > > > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 01:58:08 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alexander Jorgensen Subject: A query for EVERYONE - Issues of Free Speech and Opportunism In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear all: To be honest, one does not always know what team to play on - especially when many of us are new to sharing thoughts in this kind of forum or submitting work to a larger audience. As we know, these professions we've chosen often entail knowing a bit of the dog-eat-dog and other political-type musings. This has all become more complex for me, this trying to understand and make a comfortable connection, given both my travels and comittment to human dignity. And I am being completely sincere, so would appreciate some thoughtfulness. China is certainly not free, and I am sure about this, and not as an authority, but as one who has moved around, as they say, in high and low culture, areas of organized crime and supposed circles of intelligensia (the traveller bit of me) - in addition to reading all the writing available on the subject. And no, it is not at like what Eastern Europe became, was, because I was there amid the excitement and Havel. Just returning from wedding just outside of Prague, my own, this especially is true for me (and there also have been numerous discussions had, especially with those damn Tibetans and folk up in Xingiang). The feeling in China is quite different, unsettling for me, in fact - the mood really an exploitive one, and everyone here is here, mostly, is gain something. Contrary to some, I would argue that China is not the most interesting story today - other than to say that its hype is certainly interesting. I was invited by a magazine, the possibility of a cover story included in what was an offer, by an expat friend, to submit work - to most probably have work published. It was done with fervor, excitement, and I certainly thought it great to see my work in print in China. I submitted from India, but after further discussions with some of my friends there, Tibetan, and further exploration into these topics we've heard endlessly till point of numbing disconnection (and appreciating the reality that things have gotten worse), I requested my work no longer be considered. My rationale was, and I believe it was the right thing to do, that with so many writers jailed or imprisoned, killed or who've simply run away to places of exile, how could I, an American raised on Ginsburg and Creeley, among others, exploit a situation not otherwise offered - permitted - to individuals whose work is definitely more vital than my own. How could I act in collusion with a system acting against what voice most requires. What is our responsibility in these times, where sometimes can be heard: What is in it for me. I would appreciate your thoughts. AlexJ. --- Good art however "immoral" is wholly a thing of virtue. Good art can NOT be immoral. By good art I mean art that bears true witness, I mean the art that is most precise. -- Ezra Pound __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 02:00:25 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alexander Jorgensen Subject: Re: A query for EVERYONE - Issues of Free Speech and Opportunism In-Reply-To: <20060802085808.85518.qmail@web53909.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I apologize for the bad form. I can't seem to get used to feeling comfortable typing an email - and rarely bother to proof what I write. AJ --- Good art however "immoral" is wholly a thing of virtue. Good art can NOT be immoral. By good art I mean art that bears true witness, I mean the art that is most precise. -- Ezra Pound __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 07:33:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Larissa Shmailo Subject: The Feminist Poets in Low-Cut Blouses Equal Opportunity Reading In-Reply-To: <8C8843C312B9490-AD4-2F91@mblk-r33.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 The Feminist Poets in Low-Cut Blouses welcome men.=20 Where would we be without them?=20 (Sane, solvent, slim?) =20 =20 Sliding Scale Poetry presents =20 THE FEMINIST POETS IN LOW-CUT BLOUSES EQUAL OPPORTUNITY READING Sunday August 13 5-7 p.m. The Bowery Poetry Club 308 Bowery between Houston and Bleecker (across from CBGB's) F to Delancey; 6 to Bleecker $6 Imformation: 212-712-9865 slidingsca@aol.com =20 =20 STARRING: =20 Madeline Artenberg Mallie Boman Steve Dalachinsky Robert Dunn Nemo Hill Brant Lyon Susan Maurer Iris N. Schwartz Larissa Shmailo =20 SPECIAL GUEST EMCEE: Chocolate Waters =20 (Drag, dear audience, is entirely optional, but remember the Feminist Poet i= n Low- Cut Blouses motto: Sometimes, one button less is more . . .) =20 About the Feminist Poets in Low-Cut Blouses and the men who dare read with us: =20 Madeline Artenberg performs frequently in NYC, including at the Bowery Poetr= y Club, backed by David Amram. Her work appears in print and online journal= s, such as Absinthe Literary Review, she has garnered poetry awards (e.g., S= emi-Finalist in the Margie 2005 contest), and her book Awakened (with poems=20= by Iris N. Schwartz) was published by Rogue Scholars Press in April 2006. Mallie Boman is a renaissance person who has worked in theatre, film, radio=20= as a writer, director, performer, entrepreneur, producer, teacher. A tai ch= i master, she follows her breath, heart and vision, winning awards from mayo= rs in 2 countries, writing poetry and award-winning plays, performs in MONA=20= LISA, BUDDHA & ME and was part of NOW Free Theatre, the first feminist theat= re company in NYC. Mallie is currently traveling and directing several docu= mentaries about people and works that inspire her. www.bambooandbone.com =20 steve dalachinsky=E2=80=99s widely-published work has appeared in Big Bridge= , Milk, Ratapallax, Evergreen Review, Long Shot, and N.Y. Arts Magazine. He= is anthologized as Beat Indeed, The Haiku Moment and the esteemed Outlaw Bi= ble of American Poetry. His acclaimed 1999 CD, Incomplete Direction (Knittin= g Factory Records) is a collection of his poetry read in collaboration with=20= musicians William Parker, Matthew Shipp, Daniel Carter, Sabir Mateen, Thurst= on Moore (SonicYouth), Vernon Reid (Living Colour). His most recent chapboo= ks include Musicology (Editions Pioche, Paris 2005) and Lautreamont's Lament= s (Furniture Press 2005. His books include A Superintendent's Eyes (Hozomeen= Press 2000) and The Final Nite. His latest CD is Phenomena of Interference,= a collaboration with pianist Matthew Shipp (Hopscotch Records 2005).=20 =20 Writer/artist Robert Dunn is the author of such books as Zen Yentas in Bonda= ge, Horse Latitudes, and Baffled in Baloneyville. He has served as Editor of= Medicinal Purposes Literary Review and The New Press Literary Quarterly. Mr= . Dunn=E2=80=99s poetry has appeared around the world, which is more than yo= u can say for him. He lives, works, and plays checkers with raisins on waffl= es in New York City. Raisins, he finds, are very hard to crown. =20 Abandoned by his parents, R. NEMO HILL was raised by gay werewolves. In the= early eighties he was convicted of locking himself overnight in the basemen= t of the local post office, and licking all the stamps. As punishment for t= his reckless criminal act he was forced to publish, in collaboration with p= ainter Jeanne Hedstrom, an illustrated novel based upon the processes of me= dieval alchemy (Pilgrim=E2=80=99s Feather, Quantuck Lane Press)=E2=80=94 as=20= well as a book-length poem in heroic couplets, based upon a short story by=20= H. P. Lovecraft (The Strange Music of Erich Zann, Hippocampus Press.)=20 Susan Maurer is the author By the Blue Light of the Morning Glory, Linear A= rt. She has been in over a hundred different journals and anthologies (in te= n countries) including Literary Imagination, Cross Connect, Virginia Quarter= ly Review, Orbis, The Unbearables' Help Yourself!, Autonomedia, and Soft Sku= ll's Off the Cuffs. She has been nominated for a Pushcart by three and has=20= new chapbook with Mark Sonnefield published by Marymark Press, 2005. =20 =20 Iris N. Schwartz has poetry anthologized in An Eye for an Eye Makes the Whol= e World Blind, and in Listening to the Birth of Crystals, and in such journa= ls as Erbacce and Pikeville Review. Her novella was anthologized in That's A= more!, her short stories in Stirring Up A Storm and elsewhere. Iris has feat= ured at Cornelia St. Caf=C3=A9 and KGB Bar, among other venues, and on radio= , on-line interactive TV, and Internet radio. Her book of poetry with Madeli= ne Artenberg, Awakened, was recently published by Rogue Scholars Press. =20 Larissa Shmailo has read with the Black Panthers, for the Writer's Harvest a= gainst Hunger, at the Knitting Factory, and countless other national venues.= She has received "Critic's Pick" notices and critical acclaim for her readi= ngs and radio performances from the New York Times, the Village Voice, and T= ime Out magazine. Larissa has been published in scores of books, journals an= d web sites ranging from Newsweek, Ratapallax, poetz.com, the American Trans= lator's Slavfile, and Street News. She is the translator of Russian Futuris= t opera Victory over the Sun with art by Kasimir Malevich; the opera was per= formed at Brooklyn Academy of Music's Next Wave Festival, the Los Angeles Co= unty Museum, the Smithsonian, and internationally. Her poetry CD, The No-Net= World, is available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/shmailo , at www.tower.com,= at St Marks NYC, City Lights SF, and other bookstores. With Chocolate Water= s, she teaches the class PUBLISH & PERFORM, or PERISH! =20 Chocolate Waters, a pioneer in the art of performance poetry, has been delig= hting audiences for over three decades. She has toured the U. S. and parts o= f Canada and is an active participant in the New York poetry circuit. A New=20= York Foundation for the Arts fellow and a recipient of a fgrant from the Bar= bara Deming Memorial Fund, Waters has produced three collections of work whi= ch are considered classics of the eaerly women=E2=80=99s movement. Her work=20= has appeared in hundreds of publications, both in prinnt and online Her late= st endeavor, a CD entitled Chocolate Waters Uncensored , is available at her= web site. =20 Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM= . All on demand. Always Free. ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM= . All on demand. Always Free. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 08:45:03 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Beckett Subject: UNPROTECTED TEXTS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit UNPROTECTED TEXTS: SELECTED POEMS (1978~2006) Poems by Tom Beckett Release Date: Fall 2006 No. of Pages: 180 Price: $19.95 Distributor: Small Press Distribution (www.spdbooks.org), Amazon.com Contact: MeritagePress@aol.com Meritage Press is pleased to announce the release of Tom Beckett's long overdue and much anticipated first poetry book. Unprotected Texts encompasses work from nearly three decades. To celebrate this historic release, Meritage Press is pleased to offer a PRE-RELEASE SPECIAL. Through September 30, 2006, you can acquire this book direct from the publisher for $14.00, a 30% discount, as well as receive free shipping/handling for orders sent to U.S. addresses. Send check/money order made out to "Meritage Press" to Eileen Tabios Meritage Press 256 North Fork Crystal Springs Road St. Helena, CA 94574 BOOK DESCRIPTION: Zombies and Wittgenstein bracket a series of autonomous zones populated by the Book, Harry Partch, 100 Questions, shadows, holograms, the Subject, the author himself, and numerous pronouns. These Unprotected Texts flood the tones of speech wrenched from the bent notes of a life lived looking for a connection to "the conversation" which takes place among musics of meaning. Sex and text are synonymous here. "Is this speech balloon a rubber?" ADVANCE WORDS: There is a powerfully osmotic draw to this welcome volume of Selected Poems, spanning nearly thirty years of work and concluding with a stimulating interview of the author by Tom Fink and Crag Hill. That this book is overdue, results in a level of concentration that intensifies the experience of reading. The poetry itself, the intellect and personality that exude from it, reveal a mind and heart that bring to the fore the infinite variety of life in the late 20th and early 21st Centuries. References to composer and musical theorist Harry Partch seem apt, as Beckett's Unprotected Texts reveal intervals in sound, discovering heretofore undiscovered instruments. There is Beckett as designer who "underpaints." Beckett as builder: "Stanzas are rooms in Italian." Beckett as political and social observer: "Is the president a hologram?" "Do fingerprints have babies?" Beckett as aesthetic investigator: "At some point I turned out to be my method." "Closure affects circumference." Beckett as honest individual/ articulate creator: "It's a boy and it's a girl." "Often I am permitted to do absolutely nothing that I want to do." --Sheila E. Murphy For three decades now, Tom Beckett has been writing the most hard-headed, clear-eyed, unsentimental poetry in America. He has the rigor of a master & the mind of a first-rate detective. Long before the internet made it relatively easier for a poet to work from somewhere other than one of the two or three major literary centers, Beckett was writing poems from deep inside Ohio that ring as true -- and as clearly -- now as when they were first written. --Ron Silliman BIO: Well known for editing The Difficulties (1980-1990), a now legendary critical journal, Tom Beckett has long been associated with the Language Poets. His "The Picture Window" (included in this volume) was published in Ron Silliman's landmark anthology In the American Tree. More recently, he has become a popular figure in the world of blogs. Unprotected Texts is comprised of work taken in whole or part from broadsides, chapbooks, journals, online and other publications. It is his first, much anticipated, full-length book. He lives in Kent, Ohio. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 04:33:36 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabrielle Welford Subject: Re: civilians In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE thank you so much for this. having lived in hawaii for the last 13 years, i see the same old genocide in different forms going on now. all best, gabe On Wed, 2 Aug 2006, David-Baptiste Chirot wrote: > My great grandmother was the only surviving member of the large grou= p > of Ojibway Indians of which she was a part who had been herded aboard tra= ins > to supposedly be taken to a reservation. The blankets given everyone wer= e > infected with smallpox--biological warfare courtesy the US Govt. > > The word civilian comes from the Romans and passed into English very > long ago via French, as originally a term for a ciivil judge, un civilien= =2E I > found on line some letters by Cicero iin which he reminesecnces with frie= nds > about their cilvilian ife. The distinction is clearly made between civil= ian > and the military, and also later between civilian and the ecclesiastical. > Different laws apply among them. > The slaughter of civilians is as old as war. The Roman conquest of > Carthage for example--everyone killed, everything razed to the ground, an= d > the ground covered in salt so that nothing would grow where Carthage had > been. Agent Orange anyone? Or the irradiated landscapes in Iraq from th= e > First Gulf War and the present one. > And what of Troy? And countless populations through countless > periods of time, the world over. > I was reading today about the Cathars, their extraordinary cultur= e, > religion, society. When war on them was declared by the Pope, accompanie= d > by the first verison of the Inquisition, before it found its famous home = in > Spain, it was a war of total extermination. > It was from this war of genocide that came the famous saying--"K= ill > them all and let God sort them out." This was the reply given by a comman= der > when one of his men asked how they could possibly proceed against the > population when there was no way to tell a Cathar apart from a non-Cathar= =2E > About ten days ago I saw an interview with a top ranking Israeli > official explaining the "reasons" why it is justified to be wiping out th= e > Palestinians in Gaza and destroying Lebanon to save it from Hezbollah. T= he > "reasons" given were eerily similar to a speech I had read given by a US > Federal Commander on the eve of attacking an Indian settlement and killin= g > everyone in it--at the time almost al women and children as the men were > outside the settlement to keep the slaughter away from their families. > While reflecting on this, a parallel often drawn, (the USA vs Indians, th= e > Israeli treatment of Palestinians), a commentator came on and showed on t= he > screen a quote from a Nazi Commander which was literally word for word th= e > same as the Israeli's. > Remember that during the American Civil War in both th North and > South were brutal prison camps in which prisoners were beaten, tortured, > starved to death. This same inhuman treatment had been given to the slave > population and to the Indians being rounded up and transferred to the > concentration camps of remote reservations--the difference being that the= se > were not soldiers. > The term civilian comes from "civilis" and has to do with living = in > the city, being bound to the laws of the city, and also making a distinct= ion > between the city dweller's "civil" manners and those of the rude > "barabarians" and country dwellers, peasants, etc. "Civilian" conveys a > sense of lawful and also civilized behaviour, hence certainly non-militar= y! > This ideal is at the heart of having civilians in charge of the military,= as > is supposed to be the case in the USA. > The difference between a State and a terrorist is that the sta= te > has a military, a territory, a government. The state can commit terrorist > acts on a far greater scale than any terrorist, who is in many ways when = not > literally as are the Palestinians or were the American Indians and the > European Jews, civilians without a "civilis" in the terms on which State= s > agree. > The terms "terrorism" and the modern "citizen" both emerged f= rom > the French Revolution. > That's been an important linking ever since, for the State = to > make and use in its justifications, and for the citizen to see as a final > resort against the State's terrorism. > > >From: Mark Wallace > >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >Subject: civilians > >Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 21:22:45 -0700 > > > >Thanks to Catherine, Joe, Tom, Kass, Murat and others > >for their interesting answers to my questions. > > > >A couple of points occur to me: it seems then that > >we're looking at less than a 50-year window, at best, > >between the defining of "civilian" as a term in > >English and the U.S. decision that attacking civilians > >before attacking armies might be the way to win wars > >or murder and destroy dissident populations (and > >leaving the issue of elsewhere in the world aside for > >the moment, such as 19th century British colonies). To > >be identified as a civilian is to be highlighted as > >non-military, and therefore quickly and specifically > >targeted. It's interesting and terrifying to see how > >this fact parallels other identifying terms for groups > >and the repurcussions that follow; the concept of the > >homosexual in the 1890s, for instance. > > > >I wonder if the term "civilian" was created originally > >within the military. > > > >Lastly, it's very striking that the changes in U.S. > >policy towards Indians and Sherman's march on Georgia > >happen essentially within a year or two of each other. > >I wonder if anyone has looked at the connection of > >these two things? > > > >Mark > > > > > > > > > >__________________________________________________ > >Do You Yahoo!? > >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > >http://mail.yahoo.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > Don=92t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! > http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ > gabrielle welford welford@hawaii.edu Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.595 / Virus Database: 378 - Release Date: 2/25/2004 wilhelm reich anarcho-syndicalism gut/heart/head/earth ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 08:20:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: civilians MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Murat Nemet-Nejat=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 2:54 PM Subject: Re: civilians The attacking of civilians as part of a war of wills, knowing well = that it=20 will not kill many soldiers, is integral to World War II where = airplanes play a=20 curcial part: the air raids on London, Dresden, Tokyo. Hiroshima, = Nagasaki. In Godard's movie, "Notre Muzique, Godard himself show a group of = people in=20 Sarajevo the photo of a completely bombed out urban landscape, with = empty=20 shells of buildings, asking what city did the photo showed. The answer = turns out to=20 be Richmond during the Civil War. Murat In a message dated 07/31/06 12:39:32 PM, = markwallace1322@YAHOO.COM writes: > Maybe I should have clarified my question. I meant the > first concerted instance of U.S. war policy directed > primarily against civilians who they understood to be > civilians. There's no entity called the U.S. in the > 17th century. >=20 > I'm not sure whether the Trail of Tears, for instance, > is warfare as such, and I doubt that the term > civilians would have been applied to the Cherokees (my > point here is not to excuse that event). >=20 > Local massacres of civilians are of course common in > all sorts of historical situations--but what I'm > looking for is the historical moment(s) in which it > becomes conscious U.S. military policy to attack > civilians FIRST, instead of as a byproduct of already > ongoing battles between armies. >=20 > Which raises another historical question, which is at > what moment did the concept of "civilians" come to be > separated from the idea of a nation as such? Civilians > as a transnational concept? Anybody know? >=20 > Mark >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > >But the conscious killing of civlians as an essential > >element of military strategy has been more or less a > >standard practice of war for some centuries at least. > >I'm no expert, but is Sherman's march across Georgia > >the first U.S. instance of war by massive destruction > >of civilian life? >=20 >=20 > Try the Indian wars of the 17th century. Both sides > killed women and > children, the English rather more effectively. >=20 >=20 >=20 > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com >=20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 08:27:37 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Fw: civilians MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable All, Ooops, Sorry folks! I clicked on the wrong spot. alex =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: alexander saliby=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 8:20 AM Subject: Re: civilians ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Murat = Nemet-Nejat>=20 To: = POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU>=20 Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 2:54 PM Subject: Re: civilians The attacking of civilians as part of a war of wills, knowing well = that it=20 will not kill many soldiers, is integral to World War II where = airplanes play a=20 curcial part: the air raids on London, Dresden, Tokyo. Hiroshima, = Nagasaki. In Godard's movie, "Notre Muzique, Godard himself show a group of = people in=20 Sarajevo the photo of a completely bombed out urban landscape, with = empty=20 shells of buildings, asking what city did the photo showed. The answer = turns out to=20 be Richmond during the Civil War. Murat In a message dated 07/31/06 12:39:32 PM, = markwallace1322@YAHOO.COM> writes: > Maybe I should have clarified my question. I meant the > first concerted instance of U.S. war policy directed > primarily against civilians who they understood to be > civilians. There's no entity called the U.S. in the > 17th century. >=20 > I'm not sure whether the Trail of Tears, for instance, > is warfare as such, and I doubt that the term > civilians would have been applied to the Cherokees (my > point here is not to excuse that event). >=20 > Local massacres of civilians are of course common in > all sorts of historical situations--but what I'm > looking for is the historical moment(s) in which it > becomes conscious U.S. military policy to attack > civilians FIRST, instead of as a byproduct of already > ongoing battles between armies. >=20 > Which raises another historical question, which is at > what moment did the concept of "civilians" come to be > separated from the idea of a nation as such? Civilians > as a transnational concept? Anybody know? >=20 > Mark >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > >But the conscious killing of civlians as an essential > >element of military strategy has been more or less a > >standard practice of war for some centuries at least. > >I'm no expert, but is Sherman's march across Georgia > >the first U.S. instance of war by massive destruction > >of civilian life? >=20 >=20 > Try the Indian wars of the 17th century. Both sides > killed women and > children, the English rather more effectively. >=20 >=20 >=20 > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > = http://mail.yahoo.com> >=20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 08:21:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "s. gardner" Subject: pardon for cross-listing but,-- In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit 40-odd new e-chaps are up!!! dana ward * john sakkis * scott glassman * sawako nakayasu * hartmut abendshein * k lorraine graham * jonathan skinner * lauren levin * elisabeth workman * sheila murphy * betsy fagin * nicole mauro * jill magi * rick snyder * sarah mangold * david goldstein * philip jenks * logan ryan smith * jill stengel * aaron anstett * jules boykoff * paul klinger * christopher rizzo * jared hayes * amy king * kari edwards * greg fuchs * william allegrezza * jen hofer * kaia sand * mark lamoureaux * jon leon * susana gardner * ellen baxt * cheryl quimba * jane sprague * mackenzie carignan * jared stanley * catherine theis * marci nelligan * boyd spahr * almeder logan * http://www.dusie.org/ ______________________________________ Also, Dusie Press is pleased to officially announce the release of CORNSTARCH FIGURINE, by poet Elizabeth Treadwell!!! just 13 bucks! come visit Dusie & buy a book! at the Dusie Press bookbook page here: http://www.dusie.org/dusiepress.html cheers! (and on a side note, if you submitted work to Dusie and haven't heard back from me, sorry, but I will be looking at the huge amount of submissions /MS to Dusie...from late winter on...very soon!) if you would be interested in writing a review of any of the dusi/e-chaps or any other listed at the dusie.blogspot.com site, please feel free to backchannel me! your grandchild cries to literary beauty Elizabeth Treadwell, Lilyfoil __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 09:36:12 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steensen Subject: Joshua Beckman's contact info Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone have Joshua Beckman's e-mail address? Please backchannel. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 09:02:32 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: civilians In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Yes, D-B Chirot's historical renderings of Civilian-Religio-Military demarcations versus 'barbarian' are helpful. Yes, my grandmother was part Wiyot - a tribe around Humboldt Bay in Norther= n California. Estimated to be 1500 to 2,000 members in 1845, it was reduced t= o 100 full blooded members by 1910. Some of the worst slaughter of Indian tribes occurred in this part of California between 1850 and 1865. The Matol= e people, for example, were totally wiped out. None, of the them, to my knowledge, were ever referred to as civilians - though, ironically, some non-Indians refer to the Cherokees as 'the most civilized of the tribes or peoples. My grandmother's grandmother and sister - at the ages of 10 and 12 - were probably spared in the Table Bluff massacre in the early 1860's, and kidnapped and raised by a settler family that lived near Cape Mendocino (th= e furthest point west in the U.S.A.) Such children were often treated as slaves - cheap farm labor for the family. One imagines sexual exploitation was often the case, as well; 'marriages' happened with settler men (a paucity of white women). Etc. One imagines - I don't know - that for an Indian woman totally displaced from family and people - that marrying a settler - ironically enough - was a way to become 'a civilian.' Such marriages - though common through out the west - could be dangerous. Two men are buried on the family property allegedly because they were shot trying to murder someone married to a 'squaw' - one who he actually accompanied in public and treated with respect. As to the current issues of 'civilian' versus 'barbarian', 'Christian and Jews' versus 'terrorist or Muslim' it continues to strike me that 'we' are mpw thrown back into antiquarian modes (if 'we', indeed, ever fully left them). Some part of me wonders if "Capitalism" - a kind of meta-preson - i= s going to get really upset along this way and say, Stop, you are not just killing people, you're killing markets - we have been selling lots of cars, etc. in Lebanon, etc. Looking dreadful out there - and imagining 'out there' is going to be 'in here' among 'the civilians' more than too soon. Stephen V http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ Where currently is an account of The Soundeye Poetry Festival Cork, July 6 - 9/. =20 =20 > thank you so much for this. having lived in hawaii for the last 13 years= , > i see the same old genocide in different forms going on now. all best, > gabe >=20 > On Wed, 2 Aug 2006, David-Baptiste Chirot wrote: >=20 >> My great grandmother was the only surviving member of the large gro= up >> of Ojibway Indians of which she was a part who had been herded aboard tr= ains >> to supposedly be taken to a reservation. The blankets given everyone we= re >> infected with smallpox--biological warfare courtesy the US Govt. >>=20 >> The word civilian comes from the Romans and passed into English ver= y >> long ago via French, as originally a term for a ciivil judge, un civilie= n. I >> found on line some letters by Cicero iin which he reminesecnces with fri= ends >> about their cilvilian ife. The distinction is clearly made between civi= lian >> and the military, and also later between civilian and the ecclesiastical= . >> Different laws apply among them. >> The slaughter of civilians is as old as war. The Roman conquest o= f >> Carthage for example--everyone killed, everything razed to the ground, a= nd >> the ground covered in salt so that nothing would grow where Carthage had >> been. Agent Orange anyone? Or the irradiated landscapes in Iraq from t= he >> First Gulf War and the present one. >> And what of Troy? And countless populations through countless >> periods of time, the world over. >> I was reading today about the Cathars, their extraordinary cultu= re, >> religion, society. When war on them was declared by the Pope, accompani= ed >> by the first verison of the Inquisition, before it found its famous home= in >> Spain, it was a war of total extermination. >> It was from this war of genocide that came the famous saying--"= Kill >> them all and let God sort them out." This was the reply given by a comma= nder >> when one of his men asked how they could possibly proceed against the >> population when there was no way to tell a Cathar apart from a non-Catha= r. >> About ten days ago I saw an interview with a top ranking Israeli >> official explaining the "reasons" why it is justified to be wiping out t= he >> Palestinians in Gaza and destroying Lebanon to save it from Hezbollah. = The >> "reasons" given were eerily similar to a speech I had read given by a US >> Federal Commander on the eve of attacking an Indian settlement and killi= ng >> everyone in it--at the time almost al women and children as the men were >> outside the settlement to keep the slaughter away from their families. >> While reflecting on this, a parallel often drawn, (the USA vs Indians, t= he >> Israeli treatment of Palestinians), a commentator came on and showed on = the >> screen a quote from a Nazi Commander which was literally word for word t= he >> same as the Israeli's. >> Remember that during the American Civil War in both th North and >> South were brutal prison camps in which prisoners were beaten, tortured, >> starved to death. This same inhuman treatment had been given to the slav= e >> population and to the Indians being rounded up and transferred to the >> concentration camps of remote reservations--the difference being that th= ese >> were not soldiers. >> The term civilian comes from "civilis" and has to do with living= in >> the city, being bound to the laws of the city, and also making a distinc= tion >> between the city dweller's "civil" manners and those of the rude >> "barabarians" and country dwellers, peasants, etc. "Civilian" conveys a >> sense of lawful and also civilized behaviour, hence certainly non-milita= ry! >> This ideal is at the heart of having civilians in charge of the military= , as >> is supposed to be the case in the USA. >> The difference between a State and a terrorist is that the st= ate >> has a military, a territory, a government. The state can commit terroris= t >> acts on a far greater scale than any terrorist, who is in many ways when= not >> literally as are the Palestinians or were the American Indians and the >> European Jews, civilians without a "civilis" in the terms on which Stat= es >> agree. >> The terms "terrorism" and the modern "citizen" both emerged = from >> the French Revolution. >> That's been an important linking ever since, for the State= to >> make and use in its justifications, and for the citizen to see as a fina= l >> resort against the State's terrorism. >>=20 >>> From: Mark Wallace >>> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>> Subject: civilians >>> Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 21:22:45 -0700 >>>=20 >>> Thanks to Catherine, Joe, Tom, Kass, Murat and others >>> for their interesting answers to my questions. >>>=20 >>> A couple of points occur to me: it seems then that >>> we're looking at less than a 50-year window, at best, >>> between the defining of "civilian" as a term in >>> English and the U.S. decision that attacking civilians >>> before attacking armies might be the way to win wars >>> or murder and destroy dissident populations (and >>> leaving the issue of elsewhere in the world aside for >>> the moment, such as 19th century British colonies). To >>> be identified as a civilian is to be highlighted as >>> non-military, and therefore quickly and specifically >>> targeted. It's interesting and terrifying to see how >>> this fact parallels other identifying terms for groups >>> and the repurcussions that follow; the concept of the >>> homosexual in the 1890s, for instance. >>>=20 >>> I wonder if the term "civilian" was created originally >>> within the military. >>>=20 >>> Lastly, it's very striking that the changes in U.S. >>> policy towards Indians and Sherman's march on Georgia >>> happen essentially within a year or two of each other. >>> I wonder if anyone has looked at the connection of >>> these two things? >>>=20 >>> Mark >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> __________________________________________________ >>> Do You Yahoo!? >>> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >>> http://mail.yahoo.com >>=20 >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Don=92t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! >> http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ >>=20 >=20 > gabrielle welford > welford@hawaii.edu >=20 > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.595 / Virus Database: 378 - Release Date: 2/25/2004 >=20 > wilhelm reich > anarcho-syndicalism > gut/heart/head/earth ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 12:09:58 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kevin thurston Subject: Re: civilians In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Some part of me wonders if "Capitalism" - a kind of meta-preson - is going to get really upset along this way and say, Stop, you are not just killing people, you're killing markets - we have been selling lots of cars, etc. in Lebanon, etc. it seems reasonable that this will be the case. christ (ha!), george bush discusses alternative fueled vehicles which certainly isn't a commitment to the environment On 8/2/06, Stephen Vincent wrote: > > Yes, D-B Chirot's historical renderings of Civilian-Religio-Military > demarcations versus 'barbarian' are helpful. > Yes, my grandmother was part Wiyot - a tribe around Humboldt Bay in > Northern > California. Estimated to be 1500 to 2,000 members in 1845, it was reduced > to > 100 full blooded members by 1910. Some of the worst slaughter of Indian > tribes occurred in this part of California between 1850 and 1865. The > Matole > people, for example, were totally wiped out. None, of the them, to my > knowledge, were ever referred to as civilians - though, ironically, some > non-Indians refer to the Cherokees as 'the most civilized of the tribes or > peoples. > My grandmother's grandmother and sister - at the ages of 10 and 12 - were > probably spared in the Table Bluff massacre in the early 1860's, and > kidnapped and raised by a settler family that lived near Cape Mendocino > (the > furthest point west in the U.S.A.) Such children were often treated as > slaves - cheap farm labor for the family. One imagines sexual exploitation > was often the case, as well; 'marriages' happened with settler men (a > paucity of white women). Etc. One imagines - I don't know - that for an > Indian woman totally displaced from family and people - that marrying a > settler - ironically enough - was a way to become 'a civilian.' > Such marriages - though common through out the west - could be dangerous. > Two men are buried on the family property allegedly because they were shot > trying to murder someone married to a 'squaw' - one who he actually > accompanied in public and treated with respect. > > As to the current issues of 'civilian' versus 'barbarian', 'Christian and > Jews' versus 'terrorist or Muslim' it continues to strike me that 'we' are > mpw thrown back into antiquarian modes (if 'we', indeed, ever fully left > them). Some part of me wonders if "Capitalism" - a kind of meta-preson > - is > going to get really upset along this way and say, Stop, you are not just > killing people, you're killing markets - we have been selling lots of > cars, > etc. in Lebanon, etc. > > Looking dreadful out there - and imagining 'out there' is going to be 'in > here' among 'the civilians' more than too soon. > > Stephen V > http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ > Where currently is an account of > The Soundeye Poetry Festival > Cork, July 6 - 9/. > > > > > > > > > > > > > thank you so much for this. having lived in hawaii for the last 13 > years, > > i see the same old genocide in different forms going on now. all best, > > gabe > > > > On Wed, 2 Aug 2006, David-Baptiste Chirot wrote: > > > >> My great grandmother was the only surviving member of the large > group > >> of Ojibway Indians of which she was a part who had been herded aboard > trains > >> to supposedly be taken to a reservation. The blankets given everyone > were > >> infected with smallpox--biological warfare courtesy the US Govt. > >> > >> The word civilian comes from the Romans and passed into English > very > >> long ago via French, as originally a term for a ciivil judge, un > civilien. I > >> found on line some letters by Cicero iin which he reminesecnces with > friends > >> about their cilvilian ife. The distinction is clearly made between > civilian > >> and the military, and also later between civilian and the > ecclesiastical. > >> Different laws apply among them. > >> The slaughter of civilians is as old as war. The Roman conquest > of > >> Carthage for example--everyone killed, everything razed to the ground, > and > >> the ground covered in salt so that nothing would grow where Carthage > had > >> been. Agent Orange anyone? Or the irradiated landscapes in Iraq from > the > >> First Gulf War and the present one. > >> And what of Troy? And countless populations through countless > >> periods of time, the world over. > >> I was reading today about the Cathars, their extraordinary > culture, > >> religion, society. When war on them was declared by the Pope, > accompanied > >> by the first verison of the Inquisition, before it found its famous > home in > >> Spain, it was a war of total extermination. > >> It was from this war of genocide that came the famous > saying--"Kill > >> them all and let God sort them out." This was the reply given by a > commander > >> when one of his men asked how they could possibly proceed against the > >> population when there was no way to tell a Cathar apart from a > non-Cathar. > >> About ten days ago I saw an interview with a top ranking > Israeli > >> official explaining the "reasons" why it is justified to be wiping out > the > >> Palestinians in Gaza and destroying Lebanon to save it from > Hezbollah. The > >> "reasons" given were eerily similar to a speech I had read given by a > US > >> Federal Commander on the eve of attacking an Indian settlement and > killing > >> everyone in it--at the time almost al women and children as the men > were > >> outside the settlement to keep the slaughter away from their families. > >> While reflecting on this, a parallel often drawn, (the USA vs Indians, > the > >> Israeli treatment of Palestinians), a commentator came on and showed on > the > >> screen a quote from a Nazi Commander which was literally word for word > the > >> same as the Israeli's. > >> Remember that during the American Civil War in both th North and > >> South were brutal prison camps in which prisoners were beaten, > tortured, > >> starved to death. This same inhuman treatment had been given to the > slave > >> population and to the Indians being rounded up and transferred to the > >> concentration camps of remote reservations--the difference being that > these > >> were not soldiers. > >> The term civilian comes from "civilis" and has to do with > living in > >> the city, being bound to the laws of the city, and also making a > distinction > >> between the city dweller's "civil" manners and those of the rude > >> "barabarians" and country dwellers, peasants, etc. "Civilian" conveys > a > >> sense of lawful and also civilized behaviour, hence certainly > non-military! > >> This ideal is at the heart of having civilians in charge of the > military, as > >> is supposed to be the case in the USA. > >> The difference between a State and a terrorist is that the > state > >> has a military, a territory, a government. The state can commit > terrorist > >> acts on a far greater scale than any terrorist, who is in many ways > when not > >> literally as are the Palestinians or were the American Indians and the > >> European Jews, civilians without a "civilis" in the terms on which > States > >> agree. > >> The terms "terrorism" and the modern "citizen" both emerged > from > >> the French Revolution. > >> That's been an important linking ever since, for the > State to > >> make and use in its justifications, and for the citizen to see as a > final > >> resort against the State's terrorism. > >> > >>> From: Mark Wallace > >>> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > >>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >>> Subject: civilians > >>> Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 21:22:45 -0700 > >>> > >>> Thanks to Catherine, Joe, Tom, Kass, Murat and others > >>> for their interesting answers to my questions. > >>> > >>> A couple of points occur to me: it seems then that > >>> we're looking at less than a 50-year window, at best, > >>> between the defining of "civilian" as a term in > >>> English and the U.S. decision that attacking civilians > >>> before attacking armies might be the way to win wars > >>> or murder and destroy dissident populations (and > >>> leaving the issue of elsewhere in the world aside for > >>> the moment, such as 19th century British colonies). To > >>> be identified as a civilian is to be highlighted as > >>> non-military, and therefore quickly and specifically > >>> targeted. It's interesting and terrifying to see how > >>> this fact parallels other identifying terms for groups > >>> and the repurcussions that follow; the concept of the > >>> homosexual in the 1890s, for instance. > >>> > >>> I wonder if the term "civilian" was created originally > >>> within the military. > >>> > >>> Lastly, it's very striking that the changes in U.S. > >>> policy towards Indians and Sherman's march on Georgia > >>> happen essentially within a year or two of each other. > >>> I wonder if anyone has looked at the connection of > >>> these two things? > >>> > >>> Mark > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> __________________________________________________ > >>> Do You Yahoo!? > >>> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > >>> http://mail.yahoo.com > >> > >> _________________________________________________________________ > >> Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! > >> http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ > >> > > > > gabrielle welford > > welford@hawaii.edu > > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.595 / Virus Database: 378 - Release Date: 2/25/2004 > > > > wilhelm reich > > anarcho-syndicalism > > gut/heart/head/earth > -- http://fuckinglies.blogspot.com http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/thepixelplus/nhdoublewide.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 09:40:33 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Petermeier Subject: the Minnesota experience In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Tuesday, Aug 1, Joe Amato forwarded the following from his wife, Kass Fleisher who wrote: >> it's worth noting, altho it's not quite on the >> subject, that states took indian policy into their >> own hands from time to time, as the minnesota >> militia did in 1862 following the dakota war. there >> has rarely been a public more horrifyingly >> bloodthirsty than the minnesotans, in late 1862 and >> after... >> ... with all of the dakota removed from the >> territory. the removal killed an untold many. At the Fort Snelling State Park visitor center there is an extensive display documenting the Dakota internment camp where 1600 Dakota were imprisoned after the war. It is stated there that this may in fact have been the first concentration camp. Hundreds died there, and eventually the surviving Dakota were put on river boats and shipped to Nebraska and the Dakotas. There is a memorial in the park right by the visitor center, but there is also a public swimming beach and recreational bike & hiking trails nearby. We seem to have perfected ways to ignore the ramifications of our past (and current policies). Why let the basic acknowledgement of our horrific history (and current events) get in the way of our continuing recreational and entertainment opportunities? It's the American way, ain't it? peace, love and understanding (never give up) Steve Petermeier no man's land minneapolis, mn usa __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 13:06:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: civilians MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Ah, but armaments are the biggest market of all -- gotta use 'em up to keep the killing machine going On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 12:09:58 +0000, kevin thurston wrote: > Some part of me wonders if "Capitalism" - a kind of meta-preson - is > going to get really upset along this way and say, Stop, you are not just > killing people, you're killing markets - we have been selling lots of cars, > etc. in Lebanon, etc. > > it seems reasonable that this will be the case. christ (ha!), george bush > discusses alternative fueled vehicles which certainly isn't a commitment to > the environment > > On 8/2/06, Stephen Vincent wrote: > > > > Yes, D-B Chirot's historical renderings of Civilian-Religio-Military > > demarcations versus 'barbarian' are helpful. > > Yes, my grandmother was part Wiyot - a tribe around Humboldt Bay in > > Northern > > California. Estimated to be 1500 to 2,000 members in 1845, it was reduced > > to > > 100 full blooded members by 1910. Some of the worst slaughter of Indian > > tribes occurred in this part of California between 1850 and 1865. The > > Matole > > people, for example, were totally wiped out. None, of the them, to my > > knowledge, were ever referred to as civilians - though, ironically, some > > non-Indians refer to the Cherokees as 'the most civilized of the tribes or > > peoples. > > My grandmother's grandmother and sister - at the ages of 10 and 12 - were > > probably spared in the Table Bluff massacre in the early 1860's, and > > kidnapped and raised by a settler family that lived near Cape Mendocino > > (the > > furthest point west in the U.S.A.) Such children were often treated as > > slaves - cheap farm labor for the family. One imagines sexual exploitation > > was often the case, as well; 'marriages' happened with settler men (a > > paucity of white women). Etc. One imagines - I don't know - that for an > > Indian woman totally displaced from family and people - that marrying a > > settler - ironically enough - was a way to become 'a civilian.' > > Such marriages - though common through out the west - could be dangerous. > > Two men are buried on the family property allegedly because they were shot > > trying to murder someone married to a 'squaw' - one who he actually > > accompanied in public and treated with respect. > > > > As to the current issues of 'civilian' versus 'barbarian', 'Christian and > > Jews' versus 'terrorist or Muslim' it continues to strike me that 'we' are > > mpw thrown back into antiquarian modes (if 'we', indeed, ever fully left > > them). Some part of me wonders if "Capitalism" - a kind of meta-preson > > - is > > going to get really upset along this way and say, Stop, you are not just > > killing people, you're killing markets - we have been selling lots of > > cars, > > etc. in Lebanon, etc. > > > > Looking dreadful out there - and imagining 'out there' is going to be 'in > > here' among 'the civilians' more than too soon. > > > > Stephen V > > http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ > > Where currently is an account of > > The Soundeye Poetry Festival > > Cork, July 6 - 9/. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thank you so much for this. having lived in hawaii for the last 13 > > years, > > > i see the same old genocide in different forms going on now. all best, > > > gabe > > > > > > On Wed, 2 Aug 2006, David-Baptiste Chirot wrote: > > > > > >> My great grandmother was the only surviving member of the large > > group > > >> of Ojibway Indians of which she was a part who had been herded aboard > > trains > > >> to supposedly be taken to a reservation. The blankets given everyone > > were > > >> infected with smallpox--biological warfare courtesy the US Govt. > > >> > > >> The word civilian comes from the Romans and passed into English > > very > > >> long ago via French, as originally a term for a ciivil judge, un > > civilien. I > > >> found on line some letters by Cicero iin which he reminesecnces with > > friends > > >> about their cilvilian ife. The distinction is clearly made between > > civilian > > >> and the military, and also later between civilian and the > > ecclesiastical. > > >> Different laws apply among them. > > >> The slaughter of civilians is as old as war. The Roman conquest > > of > > >> Carthage for example--everyone killed, everything razed to the ground, > > and > > >> the ground covered in salt so that nothing would grow where Carthage > > had > > >> been. Agent Orange anyone? Or the irradiated landscapes in Iraq from > > the > > >> First Gulf War and the present one. > > >> And what of Troy? And countless populations through countless > > >> periods of time, the world over. > > >> I was reading today about the Cathars, their extraordinary > > culture, > > >> religion, society. When war on them was declared by the Pope, > > accompanied > > >> by the first verison of the Inquisition, before it found its famous > > home in > > >> Spain, it was a war of total extermination. > > >> It was from this war of genocide that came the famous > > saying--"Kill > > >> them all and let God sort them out." This was the reply given by a > > commander > > >> when one of his men asked how they could possibly proceed against the > > >> population when there was no way to tell a Cathar apart from a > > non-Cathar. > > >> About ten days ago I saw an interview with a top ranking > > Israeli > > >> official explaining the "reasons" why it is justified to be wiping out > > the > > >> Palestinians in Gaza and destroying Lebanon to save it from > > Hezbollah. The > > >> "reasons" given were eerily similar to a speech I had read given by a > > US > > >> Federal Commander on the eve of attacking an Indian settlement and > > killing > > >> everyone in it--at the time almost al women and children as the men > > were > > >> outside the settlement to keep the slaughter away from their families. > > >> While reflecting on this, a parallel often drawn, (the USA vs Indians, > > the > > >> Israeli treatment of Palestinians), a commentator came on and showed on > > the > > >> screen a quote from a Nazi Commander which was literally word for word > > the > > >> same as the Israeli's. > > >> Remember that during the American Civil War in both th North and > > >> South were brutal prison camps in which prisoners were beaten, > > tortured, > > >> starved to death. This same inhuman treatment had been given to the > > slave > > >> population and to the Indians being rounded up and transferred to the > > >> concentration camps of remote reservations--the difference being that > > these > > >> were not soldiers. > > >> The term civilian comes from "civilis" and has to do with > > living in > > >> the city, being bound to the laws of the city, and also making a > > distinction > > >> between the city dweller's "civil" manners and those of the rude > > >> "barabarians" and country dwellers, peasants, etc. "Civilian" conveys > > a > > >> sense of lawful and also civilized behaviour, hence certainly > > non-military! > > >> This ideal is at the heart of having civilians in charge of the > > military, as > > >> is supposed to be the case in the USA. > > >> The difference between a State and a terrorist is that the > > state > > >> has a military, a territory, a government. The state can commit > > terrorist > > >> acts on a far greater scale than any terrorist, who is in many ways > > when not > > >> literally as are the Palestinians or were the American Indians and the > > >> European Jews, civilians without a "civilis" in the terms on which > > States > > >> agree. > > >> The terms "terrorism" and the modern "citizen" both emerged > > from > > >> the French Revolution. > > >> That's been an important linking ever since, for the > > State to > > >> make and use in its justifications, and for the citizen to see as a > > final > > >> resort against the State's terrorism. > > >> > > >>> From: Mark Wallace > > >>> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > > >>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > >>> Subject: civilians > > >>> Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 21:22:45 -0700 > > >>> > > >>> Thanks to Catherine, Joe, Tom, Kass, Murat and others > > >>> for their interesting answers to my questions. > > >>> > > >>> A couple of points occur to me: it seems then that > > >>> we're looking at less than a 50-year window, at best, > > >>> between the defining of "civilian" as a term in > > >>> English and the U.S. decision that attacking civilians > > >>> before attacking armies might be the way to win wars > > >>> or murder and destroy dissident populations (and > > >>> leaving the issue of elsewhere in the world aside for > > >>> the moment, such as 19th century British colonies). To > > >>> be identified as a civilian is to be highlighted as > > >>> non-military, and therefore quickly and specifically > > >>> targeted. It's interesting and terrifying to see how > > >>> this fact parallels other identifying terms for groups > > >>> and the repurcussions that follow; the concept of the > > >>> homosexual in the 1890s, for instance. > > >>> > > >>> I wonder if the term "civilian" was created originally > > >>> within the military. > > >>> > > >>> Lastly, it's very striking that the changes in U.S. > > >>> policy towards Indians and Sherman's march on Georgia > > >>> happen essentially within a year or two of each other. > > >>> I wonder if anyone has looked at the connection of > > >>> these two things? > > >>> > > >>> Mark > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> __________________________________________________ > > >>> Do You Yahoo!? > > >>> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > > >>> http://mail.yahoo.com > > >> > > >> _________________________________________________________________ > > >> Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! > > >> http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ > > >> > > > > > > gabrielle welford > > > welford@hawaii.edu > > > > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > > Version: 6.0.595 / Virus Database: 378 - Release Date: 2/25/2004 > > > > > > wilhelm reich > > > anarcho-syndicalism > > > gut/heart/head/earth > > > > > > -- > http://fuckinglies.blogspot.com > > http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/thepixelplus/nhdoublewide.html > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 12:16:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: civilians In-Reply-To: <200608021706.NAA19191@webmail18.cac.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed you are forgetting that reconstruction is worth billions--witness haliburton worldwide --and in iraq-- all the destoryed autos wll need to be replaced, all the infrastructure, cities and towns-- billions to be made from blowing people and things sky high--first with armaments then with rebuilding-- "where life had no value, death, sometimes, had its price" "when shit is worth money, the poor will be born without assholes" "amost every desire of a poor person is a punishable offense" there is always more money to be made by the rich, no matter the situation >From: ALDON L NIELSEN >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: civilians >Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 13:06:11 -0400 > >Ah, but armaments are the biggest market of all -- gotta use 'em up to keep >the >killing machine going > >On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 12:09:58 +0000, kevin thurston wrote: > > > Some part of me wonders if "Capitalism" - a kind of meta-preson - is > > going to get really upset along this way and say, Stop, you are not just > > killing people, you're killing markets - we have been selling lots of >cars, > > etc. in Lebanon, etc. > > > > it seems reasonable that this will be the case. christ (ha!), george >bush > > discusses alternative fueled vehicles which certainly isn't a commitment >to > > the environment > > > > On 8/2/06, Stephen Vincent wrote: > > > > > > Yes, D-B Chirot's historical renderings of Civilian-Religio-Military > > > demarcations versus 'barbarian' are helpful. > > > Yes, my grandmother was part Wiyot - a tribe around Humboldt Bay in > > > Northern > > > California. Estimated to be 1500 to 2,000 members in 1845, it was >reduced > > > to > > > 100 full blooded members by 1910. Some of the worst slaughter of >Indian > > > tribes occurred in this part of California between 1850 and 1865. The > > > Matole > > > people, for example, were totally wiped out. None, of the them, to my > > > knowledge, were ever referred to as civilians - though, ironically, >some > > > non-Indians refer to the Cherokees as 'the most civilized of the >tribes or > > > peoples. > > > My grandmother's grandmother and sister - at the ages of 10 and 12 - >were > > > probably spared in the Table Bluff massacre in the early 1860's, and > > > kidnapped and raised by a settler family that lived near Cape >Mendocino > > > (the > > > furthest point west in the U.S.A.) Such children were often treated as > > > slaves - cheap farm labor for the family. One imagines sexual >exploitation > > > was often the case, as well; 'marriages' happened with settler men (a > > > paucity of white women). Etc. One imagines - I don't know - that for >an > > > Indian woman totally displaced from family and people - that marrying >a > > > settler - ironically enough - was a way to become 'a civilian.' > > > Such marriages - though common through out the west - could be >dangerous. > > > Two men are buried on the family property allegedly because they were >shot > > > trying to murder someone married to a 'squaw' - one who he actually > > > accompanied in public and treated with respect. > > > > > > As to the current issues of 'civilian' versus 'barbarian', 'Christian >and > > > Jews' versus 'terrorist or Muslim' it continues to strike me that 'we' >are > > > mpw thrown back into antiquarian modes (if 'we', indeed, ever fully >left > > > them). Some part of me wonders if "Capitalism" - a kind of meta-preson > > > - is > > > going to get really upset along this way and say, Stop, you are not >just > > > killing people, you're killing markets - we have been selling lots of > > > cars, > > > etc. in Lebanon, etc. > > > > > > Looking dreadful out there - and imagining 'out there' is going to be >'in > > > here' among 'the civilians' more than too soon. > > > > > > Stephen V > > > http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ > > > Where currently is an account of > > > The Soundeye Poetry Festival > > > Cork, July 6 - 9/. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thank you so much for this. having lived in hawaii for the last 13 > > > years, > > > > i see the same old genocide in different forms going on now. all >best, > > > > gabe > > > > > > > > On Wed, 2 Aug 2006, David-Baptiste Chirot wrote: > > > > > > > >> My great grandmother was the only surviving member of the >large > > > group > > > >> of Ojibway Indians of which she was a part who had been herded >aboard > > > trains > > > >> to supposedly be taken to a reservation. The blankets given >everyone > > > were > > > >> infected with smallpox--biological warfare courtesy the US Govt. > > > >> > > > >> The word civilian comes from the Romans and passed into >English > > > very > > > >> long ago via French, as originally a term for a ciivil judge, un > > > civilien. I > > > >> found on line some letters by Cicero iin which he reminesecnces >with > > > friends > > > >> about their cilvilian ife. The distinction is clearly made between > > > civilian > > > >> and the military, and also later between civilian and the > > > ecclesiastical. > > > >> Different laws apply among them. > > > >> The slaughter of civilians is as old as war. The Roman >conquest > > > of > > > >> Carthage for example--everyone killed, everything razed to the >ground, > > > and > > > >> the ground covered in salt so that nothing would grow where >Carthage > > > had > > > >> been. Agent Orange anyone? Or the irradiated landscapes in Iraq >from > > > the > > > >> First Gulf War and the present one. > > > >> And what of Troy? And countless populations through >countless > > > >> periods of time, the world over. > > > >> I was reading today about the Cathars, their extraordinary > > > culture, > > > >> religion, society. When war on them was declared by the Pope, > > > accompanied > > > >> by the first verison of the Inquisition, before it found its famous > > > home in > > > >> Spain, it was a war of total extermination. > > > >> It was from this war of genocide that came the famous > > > saying--"Kill > > > >> them all and let God sort them out." This was the reply given by a > > > commander > > > >> when one of his men asked how they could possibly proceed against >the > > > >> population when there was no way to tell a Cathar apart from a > > > non-Cathar. > > > >> About ten days ago I saw an interview with a top ranking > > > Israeli > > > >> official explaining the "reasons" why it is justified to be wiping >out > > > the > > > >> Palestinians in Gaza and destroying Lebanon to save it from > > > Hezbollah. The > > > >> "reasons" given were eerily similar to a speech I had read given by >a > > > US > > > >> Federal Commander on the eve of attacking an Indian settlement and > > > killing > > > >> everyone in it--at the time almost al women and children as the men > > > were > > > >> outside the settlement to keep the slaughter away from their >families. > > > >> While reflecting on this, a parallel often drawn, (the USA vs >Indians, > > > the > > > >> Israeli treatment of Palestinians), a commentator came on and >showed on > > > the > > > >> screen a quote from a Nazi Commander which was literally word for >word > > > the > > > >> same as the Israeli's. > > > >> Remember that during the American Civil War in both th North >and > > > >> South were brutal prison camps in which prisoners were beaten, > > > tortured, > > > >> starved to death. This same inhuman treatment had been given to the > > > slave > > > >> population and to the Indians being rounded up and transferred to >the > > > >> concentration camps of remote reservations--the difference being >that > > > these > > > >> were not soldiers. > > > >> The term civilian comes from "civilis" and has to do with > > > living in > > > >> the city, being bound to the laws of the city, and also making a > > > distinction > > > >> between the city dweller's "civil" manners and those of the rude > > > >> "barabarians" and country dwellers, peasants, etc. "Civilian" >conveys > > > a > > > >> sense of lawful and also civilized behaviour, hence certainly > > > non-military! > > > >> This ideal is at the heart of having civilians in charge of the > > > military, as > > > >> is supposed to be the case in the USA. > > > >> The difference between a State and a terrorist is that >the > > > state > > > >> has a military, a territory, a government. The state can commit > > > terrorist > > > >> acts on a far greater scale than any terrorist, who is in many ways > > > when not > > > >> literally as are the Palestinians or were the American Indians and >the > > > >> European Jews, civilians without a "civilis" in the terms on which > > > States > > > >> agree. > > > >> The terms "terrorism" and the modern "citizen" both >emerged > > > from > > > >> the French Revolution. > > > >> That's been an important linking ever since, for the > > > State to > > > >> make and use in its justifications, and for the citizen to see as a > > > final > > > >> resort against the State's terrorism. > > > >> > > > >>> From: Mark Wallace > > > >>> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > > > > >>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > > >>> Subject: civilians > > > >>> Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 21:22:45 -0700 > > > >>> > > > >>> Thanks to Catherine, Joe, Tom, Kass, Murat and others > > > >>> for their interesting answers to my questions. > > > >>> > > > >>> A couple of points occur to me: it seems then that > > > >>> we're looking at less than a 50-year window, at best, > > > >>> between the defining of "civilian" as a term in > > > >>> English and the U.S. decision that attacking civilians > > > >>> before attacking armies might be the way to win wars > > > >>> or murder and destroy dissident populations (and > > > >>> leaving the issue of elsewhere in the world aside for > > > >>> the moment, such as 19th century British colonies). To > > > >>> be identified as a civilian is to be highlighted as > > > >>> non-military, and therefore quickly and specifically > > > >>> targeted. It's interesting and terrifying to see how > > > >>> this fact parallels other identifying terms for groups > > > >>> and the repurcussions that follow; the concept of the > > > >>> homosexual in the 1890s, for instance. > > > >>> > > > >>> I wonder if the term "civilian" was created originally > > > >>> within the military. > > > >>> > > > >>> Lastly, it's very striking that the changes in U.S. > > > >>> policy towards Indians and Sherman's march on Georgia > > > >>> happen essentially within a year or two of each other. > > > >>> I wonder if anyone has looked at the connection of > > > >>> these two things? > > > >>> > > > >>> Mark > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> __________________________________________________ > > > >>> Do You Yahoo!? > > > >>> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > > > >>> http://mail.yahoo.com > > > >> > > > >> _________________________________________________________________ > > > >> Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! > > > >> http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ > > > >> > > > > > > > > gabrielle welford > > > > welford@hawaii.edu > > > > > > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > > > Version: 6.0.595 / Virus Database: 378 - Release Date: 2/25/2004 > > > > > > > > wilhelm reich > > > > anarcho-syndicalism > > > > gut/heart/head/earth > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > http://fuckinglies.blogspot.com > > > > http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/thepixelplus/nhdoublewide.html > > > > > ><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > --Emily Dickinson > >Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > >Aldon L. Nielsen >Kelly Professor of American Literature >The Pennsylvania State University >116 Burrowes >University Park, PA 16802-6200 > >(814) 865-0091 _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 13:32:26 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AMBogle2@AOL.COM Subject: Re: pardon for cross-listing but,-- MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/2/06 10:31:28 AM Central Daylight Time, norehpress@YAHOO.COM writes: > 40-odd new e-chaps are up!!! > These are great! Thanks. AMB ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 12:34:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: H Arnold Subject: bonhoeffer In-Reply-To: <20060802164033.17784.qmail@web32815.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed --i thought maybe the _ethics_ or _cost of discipleship_ would have something relevant to the discussion of "civilians" -- and also critical of christian empire -- but in the limited time i have i think the following on "enemies" -- since if i follow this discussion the problem, at least in part, is a classification of "civilian" as "enemy" -- Bonhoeffer argued that in praying for the enemy one became vicariously bound with them before God -- a salvific act -- there is no question in this text i think that "civilian" and "enemy" are the same -- perhaps this is a problem with the way the notion of "enemy" is passed down in the theological literature -- the only real enemy is the one inside the self anyway >From: Steve Petermeier >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: the Minnesota experience >Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 09:40:33 -0700 > >On Tuesday, Aug 1, Joe Amato forwarded the following >from his wife, Kass Fleisher who wrote: > >> it's worth noting, altho it's not quite on the > >> subject, that states took indian policy into their > >> own hands from time to time, as the minnesota > >> militia did in 1862 following the dakota war. there > >> has rarely been a public more horrifyingly > >> bloodthirsty than the minnesotans, in late 1862 and > >> after... > > >> ... with all of the dakota removed from the > >> territory. the removal killed an untold many. > >At the Fort Snelling State Park visitor center there >is an extensive display documenting the Dakota >internment camp where 1600 Dakota were imprisoned >after the war. It is stated there that this may in >fact have been the first concentration camp. Hundreds >died there, and eventually the surviving Dakota were >put on river boats and shipped to Nebraska and the >Dakotas. There is a memorial in the park right by the >visitor center, but there is also a public swimming >beach and recreational bike & hiking trails nearby. > >We seem to have perfected ways to ignore the >ramifications of our past (and current policies). Why >let the basic acknowledgement of our horrific history >(and current events) get in the way of our continuing >recreational and entertainment opportunities? > >It's the American way, ain't it? > >peace, love and understanding (never give up) > >Steve Petermeier >no man's land >minneapolis, mn >usa > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 13:42:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: the Minnesota experience In-Reply-To: <20060802164033.17784.qmail@web32815.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" i think it is well-known that hitler studied both the US policies toward indigenous people -the reservation system in particular -as well as the Turkish genocide of the Armenians in arriving at the concentration camps and the death camps, the final solution. At 9:40 AM -0700 8/2/06, Steve Petermeier wrote: >On Tuesday, Aug 1, Joe Amato forwarded the following >from his wife, Kass Fleisher who wrote: >>> it's worth noting, altho it's not quite on the >>> subject, that states took indian policy into their >>> own hands from time to time, as the minnesota >>> militia did in 1862 following the dakota war. there >>> has rarely been a public more horrifyingly >>> bloodthirsty than the minnesotans, in late 1862 and >>> after... > >>> ... with all of the dakota removed from the >>> territory. the removal killed an untold many. > >At the Fort Snelling State Park visitor center there >is an extensive display documenting the Dakota >internment camp where 1600 Dakota were imprisoned >after the war. It is stated there that this may in >fact have been the first concentration camp. Hundreds >died there, and eventually the surviving Dakota were >put on river boats and shipped to Nebraska and the >Dakotas. There is a memorial in the park right by the >visitor center, but there is also a public swimming >beach and recreational bike & hiking trails nearby. > >We seem to have perfected ways to ignore the >ramifications of our past (and current policies). Why >let the basic acknowledgement of our horrific history >(and current events) get in the way of our continuing >recreational and entertainment opportunities? > >It's the American way, ain't it? > >peace, love and understanding (never give up) > >Steve Petermeier >no man's land >minneapolis, mn >usa > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 15:15:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Daniel f. Bradley" Subject: Re: experience Minnesota In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit so why is there any surprise at the methods being used recently? everyone everywhere has had lots of practise it seems and the most people are aware of some sorta of slaughter that is not widely known, so much so that it's not a surprise when you hear of another one so is any of it right ? is it all wrong? or are people just animals that can speak and write and make up gods and make up morals and not think about how we are really unable to reach the lofty goals that we dream and how we are really unable to look at ourselves honestly and see what we are i have no problems expecting the worst of my fellow man and when they are throwing around terms like "innocents" and "victims" and "immoral" - i expect them to be particular depraved in the violence that they do of coarse be sure to label me a sociopath if it helps Maria Damon wrote: i think it is well-known that hitler studied both the US policies toward indigenous people -the reservation system in particular -as well as the Turkish genocide of the Armenians in arriving at the concentration camps and the death camps, the final solution. At 9:40 AM -0700 8/2/06, Steve Petermeier wrote: >On Tuesday, Aug 1, Joe Amato forwarded the following >from his wife, Kass Fleisher who wrote: >>> it's worth noting, altho it's not quite on the >>> subject, that states took indian policy into their >>> own hands from time to time, as the minnesota >>> militia did in 1862 following the dakota war. there >>> has rarely been a public more horrifyingly >>> bloodthirsty than the minnesotans, in late 1862 and >>> after... > >>> ... with all of the dakota removed from the >>> territory. the removal killed an untold many. > >At the Fort Snelling State Park visitor center there >is an extensive display documenting the Dakota >internment camp where 1600 Dakota were imprisoned >after the war. It is stated there that this may in >fact have been the first concentration camp. Hundreds >died there, and eventually the surviving Dakota were >put on river boats and shipped to Nebraska and the >Dakotas. There is a memorial in the park right by the >visitor center, but there is also a public swimming >beach and recreational bike & hiking trails nearby. > >We seem to have perfected ways to ignore the >ramifications of our past (and current policies). Why >let the basic acknowledgement of our horrific history >(and current events) get in the way of our continuing >recreational and entertainment opportunities? > >It's the American way, ain't it? > >peace, love and understanding (never give up) > >Steve Petermeier >no man's land >minneapolis, mn >usa > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com helping to kill your literati star since 2004 http://fhole.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 14:49:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Henry A. Lazer" Subject: Discount offer - Rachel Blau DuPlessis's books MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Poetics List -- The latest books from the Modern and Contemporary Poetics Series, at a discount to the Poetics List: NEW FROM THE UNIVESITY OF ALABAMA PRESS!! BLUE STUDIOS Poetry and Its Cultural Work Rachel Blau DuPlessis A new collection of essays that continues the work begun in The Pink Guitar! “Blue Studios is an intriguing defense of ‘affective reading,’ a defense and demonstration of some adventurous and nonstandard modes of essay-writing, and a suggestion of a kind of utopian horizon for poetry/poetics. A major collection by one of the most important poets and critics writing today, it is a proper (and improper) successor to The Pink Guitar.” —Hank Lazer, coeditor, Modern and Contemporary Poetics Rachel Blau DuPlessis is a poet, critic, and Professor of English at Temple University. She is the author/editor of more than 20 volumes of poetry and criticism. THE PINK GUITAR Writing as Feminist Practice Rachel Blau DuPlessis A landmark study of women’s writing and poetics—now back in print! “One of the boldest, most enlightening, innovative, challenging, and knowledgeable works of feminist theory to grace the last couple of decades.”—Martha Nell Smith, Tulsa Studies in Women’s Literature “Establishes a powerful feminist writing practice not because of DuPlessis’s refusal of authority, transcendence, and singularity, but because of the ways she redeploys these.”—Jeanne Heuving, Contemporary Literature 30% pre-publication offer SALES CODE FL-456-06 Discount Good Through 08/31/06 To order, mail this form to: University of Alabama Press, Chicago Distribution Center, 11030 S. Langley, Chicago, IL 60628 Or, fax to: 773-702-7212 Or, call: 773-702-7000 The Pink Guitar (paperback; ISBN 0817353224): $29.95 $21.00 $ ________________ Blue Studios (unjacketed cloth; ISBN 081731508X): $68.75 $48.00 $ ________________ Blue Studios (paperback; ISBN 0817353216): $37.95 $26.50 $ ________________ Illinois residents add 9% sales tax $ ________________ Domestic shipping: $5.00 for the first book and $1.00 for each additional book $ ________________ Canada residents add 7% GST $ ________________ International shipping: $6.00 for the first book and $1.00 for each additional $ ________________ Enclosed as payment in full: $ ________________ (Make checks payable to The University of Alabama Press) Bill my: ____ Visa ____ MasterCard ____ Discover ____ American Express Account number ___________________________________________ Exp date _____________ Daytime phone ________________________________________________________________ Full name ________________________________________________________________ Signature ________________________________________________________________ Shipping Address: ________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 12:59:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: elen Subject: Brenda Ueland's 1938 Classic "If You Want to Write" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am re-reading this gem after 11 years. Had to share with the world how perfect a book it really is. For everyone. -elen ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 16:19:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Miami MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Will be in Miami Oct 21th through the 28th. Any opportunities to read/and/or attend readings would be appreciated. Please bc. Thanks in advance. Gerald Schwartz gejs1@rochester.rr.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 16:46:32 -0400 Reply-To: waldreid@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: waldreid@EARTHLINK.NET Subject: happenings in venice italyl? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit does anyone know of poetry goings-on in venice italy? will be there briefly (week) in october.....not sure of dates yet. of course would like to read, but if not that definitely to listen, find interesting bookstores, etc. just curious. maybe there's a website? thanks, diane wald ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 10:52:03 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabrielle Welford Subject: expectation In-Reply-To: <20060802191523.53707.qmail@web88111.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT so, the response to the expectation of it (i do expect it too from some quarters) is to become a relativist? that's why i spoke of hume and reality. it's easy to say "people are just animals" etc., but what do we do if we let our hearts be shattered by the things that go on and go on and go on happening? that's the only way change happens--and it does. best, gabe On Wed, 2 Aug 2006, Daniel f. Bradley wrote: > so why is there any surprise at the methods being used recently? > > everyone everywhere has had lots of practise it seems > > and the most people are aware of some sorta of slaughter that is not > widely known, so much so that it's not a surprise when you hear of > another one > > so is any of it right ? > > is it all wrong? > > or are people just animals that can speak and write and make up gods > and make up morals and not think about how we are really unable to reach > the lofty goals that we dream and how we are really unable to look at > ourselves honestly and see what we are > > i have no problems expecting the worst of my fellow man and when they > are throwing around terms like "innocents" and "victims" and "immoral" - > i expect them to be particular depraved in the violence that they do > > of coarse be sure to label me a sociopath if it helps > > Maria Damon wrote: > i think it is well-known that hitler studied both the US policies > toward indigenous people -the reservation system in particular -as > well as the Turkish genocide of the Armenians in arriving at the > concentration camps and the death camps, the final solution. > > At 9:40 AM -0700 8/2/06, Steve Petermeier wrote: > >On Tuesday, Aug 1, Joe Amato forwarded the following > >from his wife, Kass Fleisher who wrote: > >>> it's worth noting, altho it's not quite on the > >>> subject, that states took indian policy into their > >>> own hands from time to time, as the minnesota > >>> militia did in 1862 following the dakota war. there > >>> has rarely been a public more horrifyingly > >>> bloodthirsty than the minnesotans, in late 1862 and > >>> after... > > > >>> ... with all of the dakota removed from the > >>> territory. the removal killed an untold many. > > > >At the Fort Snelling State Park visitor center there > >is an extensive display documenting the Dakota > >internment camp where 1600 Dakota were imprisoned > >after the war. It is stated there that this may in > >fact have been the first concentration camp. Hundreds > >died there, and eventually the surviving Dakota were > >put on river boats and shipped to Nebraska and the > >Dakotas. There is a memorial in the park right by the > >visitor center, but there is also a public swimming > >beach and recreational bike & hiking trails nearby. > > > >We seem to have perfected ways to ignore the > >ramifications of our past (and current policies). Why > >let the basic acknowledgement of our horrific history > >(and current events) get in the way of our continuing > >recreational and entertainment opportunities? > > > >It's the American way, ain't it? > > > >peace, love and understanding (never give up) > > > >Steve Petermeier > >no man's land > >minneapolis, mn > >usa > > > > > >__________________________________________________ > >Do You Yahoo!? > >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > >http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > helping to kill your literati star since 2004 > http://fhole.blogspot.com/ > > gabrielle welford welford@hawaii.edu Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.595 / Virus Database: 378 - Release Date: 2/25/2004 wilhelm reich anarcho-syndicalism gut/heart/head/earth ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 16:54:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kevin thurston Subject: Re: expectation In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline but what do we do if we let our hearts be shattered by the things that go on and go on and go on happening? you read beckett, and laugh On 8/2/06, Gabrielle Welford wrote: > > so, the response to the expectation of it (i do expect it too from some > quarters) is to become a relativist? that's why i spoke of hume and > reality. it's easy to say "people are just animals" etc., but what do we > do if we let our hearts be shattered by the things that go on and go on > and go on happening? that's the only way change happens--and it does. > best, gabe > > On Wed, 2 Aug 2006, Daniel f. Bradley wrote: > > > so why is there any surprise at the methods being used recently? > > > > everyone everywhere has had lots of practise it seems > > > > and the most people are aware of some sorta of slaughter that is not > > widely known, so much so that it's not a surprise when you hear of > > another one > > > > so is any of it right ? > > > > is it all wrong? > > > > or are people just animals that can speak and write and make up gods > > and make up morals and not think about how we are really unable to reach > > the lofty goals that we dream and how we are really unable to look at > > ourselves honestly and see what we are > > > > i have no problems expecting the worst of my fellow man and when they > > are throwing around terms like "innocents" and "victims" and "immoral" - > > i expect them to be particular depraved in the violence that they do > > > > of coarse be sure to label me a sociopath if it helps > > > > Maria Damon wrote: > > i think it is well-known that hitler studied both the US policies > > toward indigenous people -the reservation system in particular -as > > well as the Turkish genocide of the Armenians in arriving at the > > concentration camps and the death camps, the final solution. > > > > At 9:40 AM -0700 8/2/06, Steve Petermeier wrote: > > >On Tuesday, Aug 1, Joe Amato forwarded the following > > >from his wife, Kass Fleisher who wrote: > > >>> it's worth noting, altho it's not quite on the > > >>> subject, that states took indian policy into their > > >>> own hands from time to time, as the minnesota > > >>> militia did in 1862 following the dakota war. there > > >>> has rarely been a public more horrifyingly > > >>> bloodthirsty than the minnesotans, in late 1862 and > > >>> after... > > > > > >>> ... with all of the dakota removed from the > > >>> territory. the removal killed an untold many. > > > > > >At the Fort Snelling State Park visitor center there > > >is an extensive display documenting the Dakota > > >internment camp where 1600 Dakota were imprisoned > > >after the war. It is stated there that this may in > > >fact have been the first concentration camp. Hundreds > > >died there, and eventually the surviving Dakota were > > >put on river boats and shipped to Nebraska and the > > >Dakotas. There is a memorial in the park right by the > > >visitor center, but there is also a public swimming > > >beach and recreational bike & hiking trails nearby. > > > > > >We seem to have perfected ways to ignore the > > >ramifications of our past (and current policies). Why > > >let the basic acknowledgement of our horrific history > > >(and current events) get in the way of our continuing > > >recreational and entertainment opportunities? > > > > > >It's the American way, ain't it? > > > > > >peace, love and understanding (never give up) > > > > > >Steve Petermeier > > >no man's land > > >minneapolis, mn > > >usa > > > > > > > > >__________________________________________________ > > >Do You Yahoo!? > > >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > > >http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > helping to kill your literati star since 2004 > > http://fhole.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > gabrielle welford > welford@hawaii.edu > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.595 / Virus Database: 378 - Release Date: 2/25/2004 > > wilhelm reich > anarcho-syndicalism > gut/heart/head/earth > -- http://fuckinglies.blogspot.com http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/thepixelplus/nhdoublewide.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 16:55:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adam Morey Subject: I need some good criticism on this In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Its a piece I wrote a few days ago and I know there's something wrong with it, I just dont know what excactly. Any help is greatly apreciated. A Mind in Oscillation These were tremendous things, the mad man and I In capital city, wandering the ruins of Illium Another day, we witnessed that holy lightening Our mechanisms in love with the message & at night, the smoke caked to our faces Mouths dry, the crack of beers at 4 am Echoing across time and space Again, we spoke, Heads full of inebriants, the world recorded in all our senses New sounds spilling from the left and right speakers We spoke in a seizure, frantic & spiraling We spoke, then, with more urgency than the banter of the day Kinetic blasts illuminated the space between our skulls, From our verbal nexus radiation propelled beyond the stars The news, nausea, fuel, ignites the room --So many would have died, so many could have drowned-- Fear of life, fear of death, ablaze between us Our words danced, ritual fires heated to the point of flash --We live in an age of information, one of horror, one of terror-- Chromosomes re-informed and archetypes recalled The room filled with amniotic fluid Weary, we doused the flames Arms open to the temporary chains of sleep. Then, the morning light Penetrating through the blinds, barely filling the dark apartment Behind a mountain of furniture, table littered with cigarette butts The self proclaimed renegade pilot sleeps & In the matrix of spinning color I feel the rug and finally fall to rest. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 17:06:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Daniel f. Bradley" Subject: Re: expectation In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit i would recommend hugging your kid that is what i do kevin thurston wrote: but what do we do if we let our hearts be shattered by the things that go on and go on and go on happening? you read beckett, and laugh On 8/2/06, Gabrielle Welford wrote: > > so, the response to the expectation of it (i do expect it too from some > quarters) is to become a relativist? that's why i spoke of hume and > reality. it's easy to say "people are just animals" etc., but what do we > do if we let our hearts be shattered by the things that go on and go on > and go on happening? that's the only way change happens--and it does. > best, gabe > > On Wed, 2 Aug 2006, Daniel f. Bradley wrote: > > > so why is there any surprise at the methods being used recently? > > > > everyone everywhere has had lots of practise it seems > > > > and the most people are aware of some sorta of slaughter that is not > > widely known, so much so that it's not a surprise when you hear of > > another one > > > > so is any of it right ? > > > > is it all wrong? > > > > or are people just animals that can speak and write and make up gods > > and make up morals and not think about how we are really unable to reach > > the lofty goals that we dream and how we are really unable to look at > > ourselves honestly and see what we are > > > > i have no problems expecting the worst of my fellow man and when they > > are throwing around terms like "innocents" and "victims" and "immoral" - > > i expect them to be particular depraved in the violence that they do > > > > of coarse be sure to label me a sociopath if it helps > > > > Maria Damon wrote: > > i think it is well-known that hitler studied both the US policies > > toward indigenous people -the reservation system in particular -as > > well as the Turkish genocide of the Armenians in arriving at the > > concentration camps and the death camps, the final solution. > > > > At 9:40 AM -0700 8/2/06, Steve Petermeier wrote: > > >On Tuesday, Aug 1, Joe Amato forwarded the following > > >from his wife, Kass Fleisher who wrote: > > >>> it's worth noting, altho it's not quite on the > > >>> subject, that states took indian policy into their > > >>> own hands from time to time, as the minnesota > > >>> militia did in 1862 following the dakota war. there > > >>> has rarely been a public more horrifyingly > > >>> bloodthirsty than the minnesotans, in late 1862 and > > >>> after... > > > > > >>> ... with all of the dakota removed from the > > >>> territory. the removal killed an untold many. > > > > > >At the Fort Snelling State Park visitor center there > > >is an extensive display documenting the Dakota > > >internment camp where 1600 Dakota were imprisoned > > >after the war. It is stated there that this may in > > >fact have been the first concentration camp. Hundreds > > >died there, and eventually the surviving Dakota were > > >put on river boats and shipped to Nebraska and the > > >Dakotas. There is a memorial in the park right by the > > >visitor center, but there is also a public swimming > > >beach and recreational bike & hiking trails nearby. > > > > > >We seem to have perfected ways to ignore the > > >ramifications of our past (and current policies). Why > > >let the basic acknowledgement of our horrific history > > >(and current events) get in the way of our continuing > > >recreational and entertainment opportunities? > > > > > >It's the American way, ain't it? > > > > > >peace, love and understanding (never give up) > > > > > >Steve Petermeier > > >no man's land > > >minneapolis, mn > > >usa > > > > > > > > >__________________________________________________ > > >Do You Yahoo!? > > >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > > >http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > helping to kill your literati star since 2004 > > http://fhole.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > gabrielle welford > welford@hawaii.edu > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.595 / Virus Database: 378 - Release Date: 2/25/2004 > > wilhelm reich > anarcho-syndicalism > gut/heart/head/earth > -- http://fuckinglies.blogspot.com http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/thepixelplus/nhdoublewide.html helping to kill your literati star since 2004 http://fhole.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 15:40:35 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: expectation In-Reply-To: <20060802210629.47173.qmail@web88110.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed I don't have a kid, so I read shel silverstein poems instead. On Wed, 2 Aug 2006, Daniel f. Bradley wrote: > i would recommend hugging your kid > > that is what i do > > kevin thurston wrote: > but what do we > do if we let our hearts be shattered by the things that go on and go on > and go on happening? > > you read beckett, and laugh > > On 8/2/06, Gabrielle Welford wrote: >> >> so, the response to the expectation of it (i do expect it too from some >> quarters) is to become a relativist? that's why i spoke of hume and >> reality. it's easy to say "people are just animals" etc., but what do we >> do if we let our hearts be shattered by the things that go on and go on >> and go on happening? that's the only way change happens--and it does. >> best, gabe >> >> On Wed, 2 Aug 2006, Daniel f. Bradley wrote: >> >>> so why is there any surprise at the methods being used recently? >>> >>> everyone everywhere has had lots of practise it seems >>> >>> and the most people are aware of some sorta of slaughter that is not >>> widely known, so much so that it's not a surprise when you hear of >>> another one >>> >>> so is any of it right ? >>> >>> is it all wrong? >>> >>> or are people just animals that can speak and write and make up gods >>> and make up morals and not think about how we are really unable to reach >>> the lofty goals that we dream and how we are really unable to look at >>> ourselves honestly and see what we are >>> >>> i have no problems expecting the worst of my fellow man and when they >>> are throwing around terms like "innocents" and "victims" and "immoral" - >>> i expect them to be particular depraved in the violence that they do >>> >>> of coarse be sure to label me a sociopath if it helps >>> >>> Maria Damon wrote: >>> i think it is well-known that hitler studied both the US policies >>> toward indigenous people -the reservation system in particular -as >>> well as the Turkish genocide of the Armenians in arriving at the >>> concentration camps and the death camps, the final solution. >>> >>> At 9:40 AM -0700 8/2/06, Steve Petermeier wrote: >>> >On Tuesday, Aug 1, Joe Amato forwarded the following >>> >from his wife, Kass Fleisher who wrote: >>> >>> it's worth noting, altho it's not quite on the >>> >>> subject, that states took indian policy into their >>> >>> own hands from time to time, as the minnesota >>> >>> militia did in 1862 following the dakota war. there >>> >>> has rarely been a public more horrifyingly >>> >>> bloodthirsty than the minnesotans, in late 1862 and >>> >>> after... >>> > >>> >>> ... with all of the dakota removed from the >>> >>> territory. the removal killed an untold many. >>> > >>> >At the Fort Snelling State Park visitor center there >>> >is an extensive display documenting the Dakota >>> >internment camp where 1600 Dakota were imprisoned >>> >after the war. It is stated there that this may in >>> >fact have been the first concentration camp. Hundreds >>> >died there, and eventually the surviving Dakota were >>> >put on river boats and shipped to Nebraska and the >>> >Dakotas. There is a memorial in the park right by the >>> >visitor center, but there is also a public swimming >>> >beach and recreational bike & hiking trails nearby. >>> > >>> >We seem to have perfected ways to ignore the >>> >ramifications of our past (and current policies). Why >>> >let the basic acknowledgement of our horrific history >>> >(and current events) get in the way of our continuing >>> >recreational and entertainment opportunities? >>> > >>> >It's the American way, ain't it? >>> > >>> >peace, love and understanding (never give up) >>> > >>> >Steve Petermeier >>> >no man's land >>> >minneapolis, mn >>> >usa >>> > >>> > >>> >__________________________________________________ >>> >Do You Yahoo!? >>> >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >>> >http://mail.yahoo.com >>> >>> >>> >>> helping to kill your literati star since 2004 >>> http://fhole.blogspot.com/ >>> >>> >> >> gabrielle welford >> welford@hawaii.edu >> >> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >> Version: 6.0.595 / Virus Database: 378 - Release Date: 2/25/2004 >> >> wilhelm reich >> anarcho-syndicalism >> gut/heart/head/earth >> > > > > -- > http://fuckinglies.blogspot.com > > http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/thepixelplus/nhdoublewide.html > > > > helping to kill your literati star since 2004 > http://fhole.blogspot.com/ > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 20:11:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: sleeping dogs, arousal of same MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain "Does this mean that Deleuze is rejecting the idea of a real world? No; he is simply getting rid of a dogma about what constitutes the real." --Claire Colebrook, UNDERSTANDING DELEUZE <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 22:59:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Switaj Subject: Re: expectation In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I don't have a kid or a copy of Silverstein, so I write. On 8/2/06, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > > I don't have a kid, so I read shel silverstein poems instead. > > On Wed, 2 Aug 2006, Daniel f. Bradley wrote: > > > i would recommend hugging your kid > > > > that is what i do > > > > kevin thurston wrote: > > but what do we > > do if we let our hearts be shattered by the things that go on and go on > > and go on happening? > > > > you read beckett, and laugh > > > > On 8/2/06, Gabrielle Welford wrote: > >> > >> so, the response to the expectation of it (i do expect it too from some > >> quarters) is to become a relativist? that's why i spoke of hume and > >> reality. it's easy to say "people are just animals" etc., but what do > we > >> do if we let our hearts be shattered by the things that go on and go on > >> and go on happening? that's the only way change happens--and it does. > >> best, gabe > >> > >> On Wed, 2 Aug 2006, Daniel f. Bradley wrote: > >> > >>> so why is there any surprise at the methods being used recently? > >>> > >>> everyone everywhere has had lots of practise it seems > >>> > >>> and the most people are aware of some sorta of slaughter that is not > >>> widely known, so much so that it's not a surprise when you hear of > >>> another one > >>> > >>> so is any of it right ? > >>> > >>> is it all wrong? > >>> > >>> or are people just animals that can speak and write and make up gods > >>> and make up morals and not think about how we are really unable to > reach > >>> the lofty goals that we dream and how we are really unable to look at > >>> ourselves honestly and see what we are > >>> > >>> i have no problems expecting the worst of my fellow man and when they > >>> are throwing around terms like "innocents" and "victims" and "immoral" > - > >>> i expect them to be particular depraved in the violence that they do > >>> > >>> of coarse be sure to label me a sociopath if it helps > >>> > >>> Maria Damon wrote: > >>> i think it is well-known that hitler studied both the US policies > >>> toward indigenous people -the reservation system in particular -as > >>> well as the Turkish genocide of the Armenians in arriving at the > >>> concentration camps and the death camps, the final solution. > >>> > >>> At 9:40 AM -0700 8/2/06, Steve Petermeier wrote: > >>> >On Tuesday, Aug 1, Joe Amato forwarded the following > >>> >from his wife, Kass Fleisher who wrote: > >>> >>> it's worth noting, altho it's not quite on the > >>> >>> subject, that states took indian policy into their > >>> >>> own hands from time to time, as the minnesota > >>> >>> militia did in 1862 following the dakota war. there > >>> >>> has rarely been a public more horrifyingly > >>> >>> bloodthirsty than the minnesotans, in late 1862 and > >>> >>> after... > >>> > > >>> >>> ... with all of the dakota removed from the > >>> >>> territory. the removal killed an untold many. > >>> > > >>> >At the Fort Snelling State Park visitor center there > >>> >is an extensive display documenting the Dakota > >>> >internment camp where 1600 Dakota were imprisoned > >>> >after the war. It is stated there that this may in > >>> >fact have been the first concentration camp. Hundreds > >>> >died there, and eventually the surviving Dakota were > >>> >put on river boats and shipped to Nebraska and the > >>> >Dakotas. There is a memorial in the park right by the > >>> >visitor center, but there is also a public swimming > >>> >beach and recreational bike & hiking trails nearby. > >>> > > >>> >We seem to have perfected ways to ignore the > >>> >ramifications of our past (and current policies). Why > >>> >let the basic acknowledgement of our horrific history > >>> >(and current events) get in the way of our continuing > >>> >recreational and entertainment opportunities? > >>> > > >>> >It's the American way, ain't it? > >>> > > >>> >peace, love and understanding (never give up) > >>> > > >>> >Steve Petermeier > >>> >no man's land > >>> >minneapolis, mn > >>> >usa > >>> > > >>> > > >>> >__________________________________________________ > >>> >Do You Yahoo!? > >>> >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > >>> >http://mail.yahoo.com > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> helping to kill your literati star since 2004 > >>> http://fhole.blogspot.com/ > >>> > >>> > >> > >> gabrielle welford > >> welford@hawaii.edu > >> > >> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > >> Version: 6.0.595 / Virus Database: 378 - Release Date: 2/25/2004 > >> > >> wilhelm reich > >> anarcho-syndicalism > >> gut/heart/head/earth > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > http://fuckinglies.blogspot.com > > > > http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/thepixelplus/nhdoublewide.html > > > > > > > > helping to kill your literati star since 2004 > > http://fhole.blogspot.com/ > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 23:27:29 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: TWO READINGS AT BERKELEY MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Michael ROTHENBERG and Murat NEMET-NEJAT Monday, August 7th, at 7:30 P.M. @ Moe's Books 2476 Telegraph Avenue Berkeley, CA Murat NEMET-NEJAT and Standard SCHAEFER Wednesday, August 9th, at 6:00 pm @ Cafe Royale=20 800 Post (at Leavenworth) Berkeley, CA Standard and Murat will read their recent collaboration, =E2=80=9CAlphabet D= ialogues/=20 Penis Monologues.=E2=80=9D ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 22:27:41 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: expectation In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a kid and a copy of Silverstein but I propagate & breed plants as an act of tomorrow. On Aug 2, 2006, at 9:59 PM, Elizabeth Switaj wrote: > I don't have a kid or a copy of Silverstein, so I write. > > On 8/2/06, Jason Quackenbush wrote: >> >> I don't have a kid, so I read shel silverstein poems instead. >> >> On Wed, 2 Aug 2006, Daniel f. Bradley wrote: >> >> > i would recommend hugging your kid >> > >> > that is what i do >> > >> > kevin thurston wrote: >> > but what do we >> > do if we let our hearts be shattered by the things that go on >> and go on >> > and go on happening? >> > >> > you read beckett, and laugh >> > >> > On 8/2/06, Gabrielle Welford wrote: >> >> >> >> so, the response to the expectation of it (i do expect it too >> from some >> >> quarters) is to become a relativist? that's why i spoke of hume >> and >> >> reality. it's easy to say "people are just animals" etc., but >> what do >> we >> >> do if we let our hearts be shattered by the things that go on >> and go on >> >> and go on happening? that's the only way change happens--and it >> does. >> >> best, gabe ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 21:50:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AG Jorgensen Subject: Re: Brenda Ueland's 1938 Classic "If You Want to Write" In-Reply-To: <000001c6b66e$456ff220$0700a8c0@8zztw01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks for the re-send. Any good books about managing the 'politics'-- AJ --- Good art however "immoral" is wholly a thing of virtue. Good art can NOT be immoral. By good art I mean art that bears true witness, I mean the art that is most precise. -- Ezra Pound __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 22:03:49 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Diane DiPrima Subject: Re: TWO READINGS AT BERKELEY In-Reply-To: <594.308f1e.3202c721@aol.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Post & Leavenworth is in San Francisco, not Berkeley. > From: Murat Nemet-Nejat > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 23:27:29 EDT > To: > Subject: TWO READINGS AT BERKELEY >=20 > Michael ROTHENBERG and Murat NEMET-NEJAT > Monday, August 7th, at 7:30 P.M. > @ Moe's Books > 2476 Telegraph Avenue > Berkeley, CA >=20 > Murat NEMET-NEJAT and Standard SCHAEFER > Wednesday, August 9th, at 6:00 pm > @ Cafe Royale=20 > 800 Post (at Leavenworth) > Berkeley, CA > Standard and Murat will read their recent collaboration, =B3Alphabet Dialog= ues/ > Penis Monologues.=B2 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 01:12:57 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: TWO READINGS AT BERKELEY MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 08/03/06 1:04:02 AM, ddiprima@EARTHLINK.NET writes: > Post & Leavenworth is in San Francisco, not Berkeley. > Thank you for the correction. As you can see, an out-of-towner (yours truly) sent the message. Murat ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 02:01:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: more on federal indian policy... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit sorry joe ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 08:37:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: expectation In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit and keep going . . . Hal Serving the tristate area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@gmail.com halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Aug 2, 2006, at 3:54 PM, kevin thurston wrote: > but what do we > do if we let our hearts be shattered by the things that go on and > go on > and go on happening? > > you read beckett, and laugh > > On 8/2/06, Gabrielle Welford wrote: >> >> so, the response to the expectation of it (i do expect it too from >> some >> quarters) is to become a relativist? that's why i spoke of hume and >> reality. it's easy to say "people are just animals" etc., but >> what do we >> do if we let our hearts be shattered by the things that go on and >> go on >> and go on happening? that's the only way change happens--and it >> does. >> best, gabe >> >> On Wed, 2 Aug 2006, Daniel f. Bradley wrote: >> >> > so why is there any surprise at the methods being used recently? >> > >> > everyone everywhere has had lots of practise it seems >> > >> > and the most people are aware of some sorta of slaughter that >> is not >> > widely known, so much so that it's not a surprise when you hear of >> > another one >> > >> > so is any of it right ? >> > >> > is it all wrong? >> > >> > or are people just animals that can speak and write and make >> up gods >> > and make up morals and not think about how we are really unable >> to reach >> > the lofty goals that we dream and how we are really unable to >> look at >> > ourselves honestly and see what we are >> > >> > i have no problems expecting the worst of my fellow man and >> when they >> > are throwing around terms like "innocents" and "victims" and >> "immoral" - >> > i expect them to be particular depraved in the violence that >> they do >> > >> > of coarse be sure to label me a sociopath if it helps >> > >> > Maria Damon wrote: >> > i think it is well-known that hitler studied both the US policies >> > toward indigenous people -the reservation system in particular -as >> > well as the Turkish genocide of the Armenians in arriving at the >> > concentration camps and the death camps, the final solution. >> > >> > At 9:40 AM -0700 8/2/06, Steve Petermeier wrote: >> > >On Tuesday, Aug 1, Joe Amato forwarded the following >> > >from his wife, Kass Fleisher who wrote: >> > >>> it's worth noting, altho it's not quite on the >> > >>> subject, that states took indian policy into their >> > >>> own hands from time to time, as the minnesota >> > >>> militia did in 1862 following the dakota war. there >> > >>> has rarely been a public more horrifyingly >> > >>> bloodthirsty than the minnesotans, in late 1862 and >> > >>> after... >> > > >> > >>> ... with all of the dakota removed from the >> > >>> territory. the removal killed an untold many. >> > > >> > >At the Fort Snelling State Park visitor center there >> > >is an extensive display documenting the Dakota >> > >internment camp where 1600 Dakota were imprisoned >> > >after the war. It is stated there that this may in >> > >fact have been the first concentration camp. Hundreds >> > >died there, and eventually the surviving Dakota were >> > >put on river boats and shipped to Nebraska and the >> > >Dakotas. There is a memorial in the park right by the >> > >visitor center, but there is also a public swimming >> > >beach and recreational bike & hiking trails nearby. >> > > >> > >We seem to have perfected ways to ignore the >> > >ramifications of our past (and current policies). Why >> > >let the basic acknowledgement of our horrific history >> > >(and current events) get in the way of our continuing >> > >recreational and entertainment opportunities? >> > > >> > >It's the American way, ain't it? >> > > >> > >peace, love and understanding (never give up) >> > > >> > >Steve Petermeier >> > >no man's land >> > >minneapolis, mn >> > >usa >> > > >> > > >> > >__________________________________________________ >> > >Do You Yahoo!? >> > >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >> > >http://mail.yahoo.com >> > >> > >> > >> > helping to kill your literati star since 2004 >> > http://fhole.blogspot.com/ >> > >> > >> >> gabrielle welford >> welford@hawaii.edu >> >> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >> Version: 6.0.595 / Virus Database: 378 - Release Date: 2/25/2004 >> >> wilhelm reich >> anarcho-syndicalism >> gut/heart/head/earth >> > > > > -- > http://fuckinglies.blogspot.com > > http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/thepixelplus/nhdoublewide.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 08:12:42 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: more on federal indian policy... In-Reply-To: <20060803.023209.-195651.38.skyplums@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" thanks steve, no sweat... & sorry on my end for growling... best, joe >sorry joe ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 04:37:47 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabrielle Welford Subject: boston In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT oh! i didn't think of this. i'm in the boston area looking after me old mum. any readings i could come to? listen? read? meet folks? i'll probably be here another month and a half. all best, gabe > > On Wed, 2 Aug 2006, Gerald Schwartz wrote: > > > Will be in Miami Oct 21th through the 28th. > > > > Any opportunities to read/and/or attend > > readings would be appreciated. > > > > Please bc. > > > > Thanks in advance. > > Gerald Schwartz > > gejs1@rochester.rr.com > > > > gabrielle welford > welford@hawaii.edu > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.595 / Virus Database: 378 - Release Date: 2/25/2004 > > wilhelm reich > anarcho-syndicalism > gut/heart/head/earth > gabrielle welford welford@hawaii.edu Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.595 / Virus Database: 378 - Release Date: 2/25/2004 wilhelm reich anarcho-syndicalism gut/heart/head/earth ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 04:44:58 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabrielle Welford Subject: Re: expectation In-Reply-To: <9FA30082-3E59-4E91-B8CF-ACF550C29B78@mwt.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT i have kids i can't hug right now because i'm away from them, so i'm hugging my mom and helping her regain dignity and joy in her life. i forward current event emails to a large group of people. i try to eat local food and will go to a peace rally on saturday. i like the "act of tomorrow." On Wed, 2 Aug 2006, mIEKAL aND wrote: > I have a kid and a copy of Silverstein but I propagate & breed plants > as an act of tomorrow. > > On Aug 2, 2006, at 9:59 PM, Elizabeth Switaj wrote: > > > I don't have a kid or a copy of Silverstein, so I write. > > > > On 8/2/06, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > >> > >> I don't have a kid, so I read shel silverstein poems instead. > >> > >> On Wed, 2 Aug 2006, Daniel f. Bradley wrote: > >> > >> > i would recommend hugging your kid > >> > > >> > that is what i do > >> > > >> > kevin thurston wrote: > >> > but what do we > >> > do if we let our hearts be shattered by the things that go on > >> and go on > >> > and go on happening? > >> > > >> > you read beckett, and laugh > >> > > >> > On 8/2/06, Gabrielle Welford wrote: > >> >> > >> >> so, the response to the expectation of it (i do expect it too > >> from some > >> >> quarters) is to become a relativist? that's why i spoke of hume > >> and > >> >> reality. it's easy to say "people are just animals" etc., but > >> what do > >> we > >> >> do if we let our hearts be shattered by the things that go on > >> and go on > >> >> and go on happening? that's the only way change happens--and it > >> does. > >> >> best, gabe > gabrielle welford welford@hawaii.edu Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.595 / Virus Database: 378 - Release Date: 2/25/2004 wilhelm reich anarcho-syndicalism gut/heart/head/earth ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 08:16:03 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adam Fieled Subject: Library of Congress, Karen O, "Oran" on Stoning the Devil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit New on "Stoning the Devil" (http://www.adamfieled.blogspot.com) --"I'm in love with Karen O" --"Philly-as-Oran" --"New Poems: "twisted limbs", etc." --"Library of Congress: another wonderful American encounter" much, much more....check it out! --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 08:39:19 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: A Little More Heat, Please? In-Reply-To: <60543.24.195.50.214.1154552136.squirrel@webmail.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit As if no electricity during 112 degree weather (on the East Coast, at least) wasn't enough, MiPOesias is flaming the fire with some sizzling new stellar work ~~ Check it, please -----> http://www.mipoesias.com ~ Peter Jay Shippy, Lucille Gang Shulklapper, Jill Alexander Essbaum, Anne Boyer, Anny Ballardini, Christopher Salerno, Noah Eli Gordon, John Sakkis, and Meghan Punschke ~ Peter Jay Shippy's books are Thieves' Latin (University of Iowa Press) and Alphaville (BlazeVOX Books). New poems can be found in The American Poetry Review, Cue, FIELD, and Jacket, among others. He teaches at Emerson College. More poems can be found at: www.peterjayshippy.com Lucille is a workshop leader for the Florida Center for the Book, an affiliate of the Library of Congress. Her poetry and fiction appear in journals and anthologies, including: The MonaPoetica anthology, Slant, Gulfstream, Poetic Voices without Borders, and Still Going Strong. She\'s the author of two chapbooks of poems: \nWhat You Cannot Have, The Substance of Sunlight, and a mini-chapbook:Godd, It\'s Not Hollywood. Recent awards include third prize for a poem, awarded by \nCommon Ground Review, first prize for a prose poem, awarded by the Nat\'l League of Pen Women: Nob Hill Branch, and honorable mention for a short story awarded by the R. Rofihy Trophy. \n \n\nJill Alexander Essbaum is the author of the 1999 Bakeless Prize winner in poetry, Heaven, and the 2005 collection of sonnets, \nOh Forbidden. She has published in journals both religious and secular, both domestic and foreign, both well-known and rabidly obscure including The Christian Century, No Tell Motel, 32 Poems, \nRhino, Image, and Poetry. In 2003, she was awarded an NEA literature grant for which she is still insanely grateful. She has particular affection for the sonnets of Edna St. Vincent Millay, the poems of Simon Armitage, the mystical theology of Simone Weil, the music of Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds, and the office politics of Wernam-Hogg. Occasionally, \nshe plays with her food. Jill lives in Zürich, Switzerland. \n \n",1] ); //--> Gulfstream, Poetic Voices without Borders, and Still Going Strong. She's the author of two chapbooks of poems: What You Cannot Have, The Substance of Sunlight, and a mini-chapbook:Godd, It's Not Hollywood. Recent awards include third prize for a poem, awarded by Common Ground Review, first prize for a prose poem, awarded by the Nat'l League of Pen Women: Nob Hill Branch, and honorable mention for a short story awarded by the R. Rofihy Trophy. Jill Alexander Essbaum is the author of the 1999 Bakeless Prize winner in poetry, Heaven, and the 2005 collection of sonnets, Oh Forbidden. She has published in journals both religious and secular, both domestic and foreign, both well-known and rabidly obscure including The Christian Century, No Tell Motel, 32 Poems, Rhino, Image, and Poetry. In 2003, she was awarded an NEA literature grant for which she is still insanely grateful. She has particular affection for the sonnets of Edna St. Vincent Millay, the poems of Simon Armitage, the mystical theology of Simone Weil, the music of Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds, and the office politics of Wernam-Hogg. Occasionally, she plays with her food. \nAnne Boyer was born in Topeka, Kansas, in 1973. She is the author of Anne Boyer\'s Good Apocalypse\n (Effing Press, 2006) and The Romance of Happy Workers (forthcoming, Coffee House). Recent work can also be found at or forthcoming in The Poker, La Petite Zine, Jacket, Coconut, and other journals. She lives in Central Iowa with her daughter, Hazel, and teaches creative writing at Drake University. \n \n \nAnny Ballardini lives and teaches in Bolzano, Italy. She is the curator/editor of the Poets\' Corner on the \nFieralingue site. Among her many translations from and into English and Italian, several are the poems by Authors featured on the Poets\' Corner, as the long poem In RI by Henry Gould, Smokestacks Allegro\n by R. Cominolli, and The Renaissance of the Self by Arturo Onofri. Her blog can be found under Narcissus Works. \n \nChristopher Salerno\'s \nWhirligig was shortlisted for the Walt Whitman Award and was just published by Spuyten Duyvil Publishing House (NY). Other poems can be found in Verse, The Colorado Review, Jubilat, Jacket, The Tiny, The New Hampshire Review, Agni online, Carolina Quarterly, Barrow Street, Free Verse, Electronic Poetry Review, Lit, River City, Forklift Ohio, Tar River Poetry, Spinning Jenny, GoodFoot\n",1] ); //--> Anne Boyer was born in Topeka, Kansas, in 1973. She is the author of Anne Boyer's Good Apocalypse (Effing Press, 2006) and The Romance of Happy Workers (forthcoming, Coffee House). Recent work can also be found at or forthcoming in The Poker, La Petite Zine, Jacket, Coconut, and other journals. She lives in Central Iowa with her daughter, Hazel, and teaches creative writing at Drake University. Anny Ballardini lives and teaches in Bolzano, Italy. She is the curator/editor of the Poets' Corner on the Fieralingue site. Among her many translations from and into English and Italian, several are the poems by Authors featured on the Poets' Corner, as the long poem In RI by Henry Gould, Smokestacks Allegro by R. Cominolli, and The Renaissance of the Self by Arturo Onofri. Her blog can be found under Narcissus Works. Christopher Salerno's Whirligig was shortlisted for the Walt Whitman Award and was just published by Spuyten Duyvil Publishing House (NY). Other poems can be found in Verse, The Colorado Review, Jubilat, Jacket, The Tiny, The New Hampshire Review, Agni online, Carolina Quarterly, Barrow Street, Free Verse, Electronic Poetry Review, Lit, River City, Forklift Ohio, Tar River Poetry, Spinning Jenny, GoodFoot , and in the anthology, The Bedside Guide To No Tell Motel. He teaches Composition, Poetry Writing and American Lit at North Carolina State University in Raleigh, NC. \nVisit his blog. \n \nNoah Eli Gordon will have two books appear in 2007: Novel Pictorial Noise (selected by John Ashbery for the 2006 National Poetry Series) and \nA Fiddle Pulled From the Throat of a Sparrow (New Issues). He is the author of The Frequencies (Tougher Disguises, 2003), The Area of Sound Called the Subtone, (Ahsahta Press, 2004), and chapbooks from Duration Press, Margin to Margin, Anchorite Press, and Anon Books. Ugly Duckling Presse recently published \nThat We Come To A Consensus, a chapbook written in collaboration with Sara Veglahn. His reviews have appeared in dozens of journals, including Boston Review, The Poker, 26, Jacket, and The St. Marks Poetry Project Newsletter\n. He writes a new chapbook review column for Rain Taxi and teaches creative writing at the University of Colorado at Denver. \nVisit blog. \n",1] ); //--> , and in the anthology, The Bedside Guide To No Tell Motel. He teaches Composition, Poetry Writing and American Lit at North Carolina State University in Raleigh, NC. . Noah Eli Gordon will have two books appear in 2007: Novel Pictorial Noise (selected by John Ashbery for the 2006 National Poetry Series) and A Fiddle Pulled From the Throat of a Sparrow (New Issues). He is the author of The Frequencies (Tougher Disguises, 2003), The Area of Sound Called the Subtone, (Ahsahta Press, 2004), and chapbooks from Duration Press, Margin to Margin, Anchorite Press, and Anon Books. Ugly Duckling Presse recently published That We Come To A Consensus, a chapbook written in collaboration with Sara Veglahn. His reviews have appeared in dozens of journals, including Boston Review, The Poker, 26, Jacket, and The St. Marks Poetry Project Newsletter . He writes a new chapbook review column for Rain Taxi and teaches creative writing at the University of Colorado at Denver. Visit blog. \nJohn Sakkis\' poetry, interviews and reviews have appeared or are forthcoming in New American Writing, Aufgabe, Mirage #4/ Period(ical), Dusie, The Poker, Hot Whiskey, commonweal, Shampoo, Bombay Gin, Shuffleboil, \nand Kulture Vulture among others. Translations of Greek poet Demosthenes Agrafiotis have appeared/ forthcoming in Fascicle, and Small Town. In the Summer 2005 Silas Press (Athens) published his translation of Siarita Kouka\'s long poem \nBenthos. A discussion with Benjamin Hollander was recently published in Hollander\'s book Vigilance (Beyond Baroque Books). A short play, Game 6, was directed by Kevin Killian and performed at the 2005 San Francisco Poet\'s Theater Jamboree. He edits the monthly \nBOTH BOTH series. \n \nMeghan Punschke resides in New York City and is currently attending the New School for an MFA in Poetry. She is the host and curator of "Word of Mouth," a reading series in the West Village dedicated to poets and fiction writers. This September, she will be hosting the first poetry event to be included in the Harlem Arts Festival. Punschke\'s work has also appeared in \nFree Focus. \n http://www.mipoesias.com/ http://www.mipoesias.com/\n ",1] ); //--> John Sakkis' poetry, interviews and reviews have appeared or are forthcoming in New American Writing, Aufgabe, Mirage #4/ Period(ical), Dusie, The Poker, Hot Whiskey, commonweal, Shampoo, Bombay Gin, Shuffleboil, and Kulture Vulture among others. Translations of Greek poet Demosthenes Agrafiotis have appeared/ forthcoming in Fascicle, and Small Town. In the Summer 2005 Silas Press (Athens) published his translation of Siarita Kouka's long poem Benthos. A discussion with Benjamin Hollander was recently published in Hollander's book Vigilance (Beyond Baroque Books). A short play, Game 6, was directed by Kevin Killian and performed at the 2005 San Francisco Poet's Theater Jamboree. He edits the monthly BOTH BOTH series. Meghan Punschke resides in New York City and is currently attending the New School for an MFA in Poetry. She is the host and curator of "Word of Mouth," a reading series in the West Village dedicated to poets and fiction writers. This September, she will be hosting the first poetry event to be included in the Harlem Arts Festival. Punschke's work has also appeared in Free Focus. http://www.mipoesias.com http://www.mipoesias.com http://www.mipoesias.com/ \n \n\n ",0] ); D(["ce"]); //--> http://www.mipoesias.com http://www.mipoesias.com Cheers! Amy King, Managing Editor Didi Menendez, Publisher/Producer \n \n \n \n \n \n \n\n ",0] ); D(["mi",2,2,"10c9d1b93acfc319",0,"0","Todd Sandvik","Todd","tsandvik@fastmail.fm",[[] ,[["me","amyhappens@gmail.com","10c9d1b93acfc319"] ] ,[] ] ,"Jul 23",["amy k "] ,[] ,[] ,[] ,"Jul 23, 2006 4:37 PM","Re: [Lucipo] A Little Slice of Summer -- MiPOesias","Hi Amy! Just a quick note to say... Willem Mikkel Sandvik (aka "Wiley") was b...",[] ,1,,,"Sun Jul 23 2006_4:37 PM","On 7/23/06, Todd Sandvik wrote:","On 7/23/06, Todd Sandvik wrote:",,,,"","",0,,"",0,,0,"In reply to \"A Little Slice of Summer -- MiPOesias\"",0] ); D(["mi",10,3,"10cc0af221f35e0a",0,"0","amy k","amy","amyhappens@gmail.com",[[["MissNomertoo","MissNomertoo@aol.com","10cc0af221f35e0a"] ] ,[] ,[] ] ,"Jul 30 (4 days ago)",["MissNomertoo@aol.com"] ,[] ,[] ,[] ,"Jul 30, 2006 2:25 PM","Re: [Lucipo] A Little Slice of Summer -- MiPOesias","Dear Nancy, Todd\'s email address is tsandvik@fastmail.fm I hope all is well w...",[] ,1,,,"Sun Jul 30 2006_2:25 PM","On 7/30/06, amy k wrote:","On 7/30/06, amy k wrote:","gmail.com",,,"","",0,,"",0,,0,"In reply to \"A Little Slice of Summer -- MiPOesias\"",0] ); //--> http://www.mipoesias.com --------------------------------- Groups are talking. We´re listening. Check out the handy changes to Yahoo! Groups. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 08:42:06 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: A Little More Heat, Please? In-Reply-To: <20060803153919.10830.qmail@web81104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit As if no electricity during 112 degree weather (on the East Coast, at least) wasn't enough, MiPOesias is flaming the fire with some sizzling new stellar work ~~ Check it, please -----> http://www.mipoesias.com ~ Peter Jay Shippy, Lucille Gang Shulklapper, Jill Alexander Essbaum, Anne Boyer, Anny Ballardini, Christopher Salerno, Noah Eli Gordon, John Sakkis, and Meghan Punschke ~ Peter Jay Shippy's books are Thieves' Latin (University of Iowa Press) and Alphaville (BlazeVOX Books). New poems can be found in The American Poetry Review, Cue, FIELD, and Jacket, among others. He teaches at Emerson College. More poems can be found at: www.peterjayshippy.com Lucille is a workshop leader for the Florida Center for the Book, an affiliate of the Library of Congress. Her poetry and fiction appear in journals and anthologies, including: The MonaPoetica anthology, Slant, Gulfstream, Poetic Voices without Borders, and Still Going Strong. She's the author of two chapbooks of poems: What You Cannot Have, The Substance of Sunlight, and a mini-chapbook:Godd, It's Not Hollywood. Recent awards include third prize for a poem, awarded by Common Ground Review, first prize for a prose poem, awarded by the Nat'l League of Pen Women: Nob Hill Branch, and honorable mention for a short story awarded by the R. Rofihy Trophy. Jill Alexander Essbaum is the author of the 1999 Bakeless Prize winner in poetry, Heaven, and the 2005 collection of sonnets, Oh Forbidden. She has published in journals both religious and secular, both domestic and foreign, both well-known and rabidly obscure including The Christian Century, No Tell Motel, 32 Poems, Rhino, Image, and Poetry. In 2003, she was awarded an NEA literature grant for which she is still insanely grateful. She has particular affection for the sonnets of Edna St. Vincent Millay, the poems of Simon Armitage, the mystical theology of Simone Weil, the music of Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds, and the office politics of Wernam-Hogg. Occasionally, she plays with her food. Anne Boyer was born in Topeka, Kansas, in 1973. She is the author of Anne Boyer's Good Apocalypse (Effing Press, 2006) and The Romance of Happy Workers (forthcoming, Coffee House). Recent work can also be found at or forthcoming in The Poker, La Petite Zine, Jacket, Coconut, and other journals. She lives in Central Iowa with her daughter, Hazel, and teaches creative writing at Drake University. Anny Ballardini lives and teaches in Bolzano, Italy. She is the curator/editor of the Poets' Corner on the Fieralingue site. Among her many translations from and into English and Italian, several are the poems by Authors featured on the Poets' Corner, as the long poem In RI by Henry Gould, Smokestacks Allegro by R. Cominolli, and The Renaissance of the Self by Arturo Onofri. Her blog can be found under Narcissus Works. Christopher Salerno's Whirligig was shortlisted for the Walt Whitman Award and was just published by Spuyten Duyvil Publishing House (NY). Other poems can be found in Verse, The Colorado Review, Jubilat, Jacket, The Tiny, The New Hampshire Review, Agni online, Carolina Quarterly, Barrow Street, Free Verse, Electronic Poetry Review, Lit, River City, Forklift Ohio, Tar River Poetry, Spinning Jenny, GoodFoot , and in the anthology, The Bedside Guide To No Tell Motel. He teaches Composition, Poetry Writing and American Lit at North Carolina State University in Raleigh, NC. . Noah Eli Gordon will have two books appear in 2007: Novel Pictorial Noise (selected by John Ashbery for the 2006 National Poetry Series) and A Fiddle Pulled From the Throat of a Sparrow (New Issues). He is the author of The Frequencies (Tougher Disguises, 2003), The Area of Sound Called the Subtone, (Ahsahta Press, 2004), and chapbooks from Duration Press, Margin to Margin, Anchorite Press, and Anon Books. Ugly Duckling Presse recently published That We Come To A Consensus, a chapbook written in collaboration with Sara Veglahn. His reviews have appeared in dozens of journals, including Boston Review, The Poker, 26, Jacket, and The St. Marks Poetry Project Newsletter . He writes a new chapbook review column for Rain Taxi and teaches creative writing at the University of Colorado at Denver. Visit blog. John Sakkis' poetry, interviews and reviews have appeared or are forthcoming in New American Writing, Aufgabe, Mirage #4/ Period(ical), Dusie, The Poker, Hot Whiskey, commonweal, Shampoo, Bombay Gin, Shuffleboil, and Kulture Vulture among others. Translations of Greek poet Demosthenes Agrafiotis have appeared/ forthcoming in Fascicle, and Small Town. In the Summer 2005 Silas Press (Athens) published his translation of Siarita Kouka's long poem Benthos. A discussion with Benjamin Hollander was recently published in Hollander's book Vigilance (Beyond Baroque Books). A short play, Game 6, was directed by Kevin Killian and performed at the 2005 San Francisco Poet's Theater Jamboree. He edits the monthly BOTH BOTH series. Meghan Punschke resides in New York City and is currently attending the New School for an MFA in Poetry. She is the host and curator of "Word of Mouth," a reading series in the West Village dedicated to poets and fiction writers. This September, she will be hosting the first poetry event to be included in the Harlem Arts Festival. Punschke's work has also appeared in Free Focus. http://www.mipoesias.com http://www.mipoesias.com http://www.mipoesias.com http://www.mipoesias.com Cheers! Amy King, Managing Editor Didi Menendez, Publisher/Producer http://www.mipoesias.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 11:52:22 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: more on federal indian policy... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit growl away joe i know its all connected to the past i was just wanting to think about what's happenin now thanks for acceptin me apology ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 13:47:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: expectation In-Reply-To: <26D98A5B-8497-48D5-AD89-35513FDAD6EC@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit expect(or)ation Hal Serving the tristate area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@gmail.com halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 19:01:13 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: maria damon Subject: Support a Middle East ceasefire Dear Friend, I thought you might be interested in this TrueMajority e-activism campaign to support a ceasefire in the Middle East. There are a number of inititatives in Congress to support a ceasefire of one sort or another, but many representatives have not yet joined it. If you go to the URL below you can check out what is at stake and send your own message directly to your Congressional representative. Take action on this action alert from TrueMajority at http://action.truemajority.org/campaign/middleeastceasefire?rk=2pAh4Dn10XrSW ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 12:49:42 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Reading/new book: Beverly Dahlen et al Comments: cc: Allen Bramhall , Alli Warren , Barrett Watten , Ben Friedlander , Carla Harryman , catherine meng , charles alexander , Charles Amarkhanian , chris murray , Chris Sullivan , Christine Murray , Chukwuma Azuonye , D G & C V Kennedy , Dana Ward , David Abel , David Hess , David Highsmith , Del Ray Cross , Douglas Barbour , Eileen Tabios , eleni Stecopoulos , Ellen Zweig , Felix Okeke-Ezigbo , Francis Raven , George Albon , George Evans , Gloria Frym , "Hank A. Lazer" , Hilton Obenzinger , Jean Vengua , Jerry Martien , Joannekyger@earthlink.net, John Norton , Joseph Lease , "K. Silem Mohammad" , kari edwards , Kit Robinson , Koichiro Yamauchi , Larry Felson , Lyn Hejinian , Mac McGinnes , Magdalena Zurawski , Mark Weiss , Michael Rothenberg , Norma Cole , Patrick Herron , Phil Crippen , Robert Gl=?ISO-8859-1?B?/A==?=ck , Ron Silliman , Saneeetee3@aol.com, shanna compton , Sheila Murphy , Stephanie Young , Summer Brenner , Susan Schultz , Susan Stone , suzanne , Tanya Brolaski , Terry Winch , Tom Raworth , Trevor Joyce In-Reply-To: <20060803193035.49875.qmail@web52205.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable I am happy to forward this reading announcement. For me particularly good news/occasion re Beverly Dahlen. Her "A Reading" series has found a new hom= e at Instance Press (Elizabeth Robinson et al, editors). At Momo's Press, we published the "A - 1 -7" in 1985, followed by a Chax and a Potes & Poets volumes. This volume must be up to A - 18 and beyond. (Momo's Press also published her first book, Out of the Third). A founding editor with Frances Jaffer and Katheen Fraser of However, her formative years were in close critical association and friendship with George Stanley. Stephen Vincent http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ Where currently is an account of The Soundeye Poetry Festival Cork, July 6 - 9/. =20 =20 To: aedburns@yahoo.com Subject: Canessa Park - 8/13/06 Etherdome/Woodside Editions/Instance Press Canessa Park Reading Series 708 Montgomery Street @ Columbus San Francisco, CA=20 Time 3 pm. =20 Come and join us for the triple threat - reading and book release for Instance Press, Etherdome, and Woodland Editions: Beverly Dahlen (Instance Press) Susanne Dyckman (EtherDome) Kate Greenstreet (EtherDome) Todd Melicker (Woodland Editions) Brian Teare (Woodland Editions) Books will be on sale so plan accordingly. This will be another Canessa Park Event not to be missed... Robert Duncan said of Beverly Dahlen, "The psychic life she draws in writing may be drawn from her own psychic life, but here its body is the text and it speaks to the psyche of the reader as a reader." Dahlen is the author of The Egyptian Poems (Hipparchia Press), Out of the Third (Momo's Press) and 5 volumes of A Reading, published variously by Momo's Press, Chax Press, Potes and Poets, and Instance Press. A native of Oregon, she has lived and worked in San Francisco for many years. Susanne Dyckman lives in Albany, CA, where she hosts a summer backyard reading series. She is the author of two chapbooks, Transiting Indigo (Etherdome Press) and Counterweight (Woodland Editions). Her work has most recently appeared or is forthcoming in the journals 26, Marginalia and First Intensity. A volume of poetry, equilibrium' s form, will be published by Shearsman Books, UK, in 2007. Kate Greenstreet=92s chapbook, Learning the Language, was published by Etherdome Press in 2005. Her first full-length book, case sensitive, will be out from Ahsahta Press in September 2006. Visit her online at www.kickingwind.com. Todd Melicker is a graduate of the MFA in Writing Program at the University of San Francisco. His work has appeared or will appear in Five Fingers Review, Volt,/ 26/, and /Colorado Review/. He lives in Santa Rosa, Ca. The recipient of Stegner, National Endowment for the Arts, and MacDowell Colony poetry fellowships, Brian Teare has published poetry in Ploughshares, Boston Review, Provincetown Arts, VOLT, Verse and The Gertrude Stein Awards in Innovative Poetry, among other publications. His first book, The Room Where I Was Born, was winner of the 2003 Brittingham Prize and the 2004 Triangle Award for Gay Poetry. Author of the recent chapbooks, Pilgrim and Transcendental Grammar Crown, he lives in Oakland, CA and is on the graduate writing faculties of the New College of California and California College of the Arts Hope to see you there, Avery Burns Literary Director Canessa Park Reading Series (20 years young) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------ End of Forwarded Message ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 13:45:28 -0700 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Subject: reading in columbus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I am scheduling for the year at Larry's poetry forum in Columbus & am wondering if anyone will be through Columbus on a Monday between October and the first week in May and can commit to a 7 pm reading. Larry's Poetry Forum has between 33 to 36 readings a year, in 2006-07 we will have prize winning poets ranging from a National Poetry Series winner to a Ohio Lottery $2 scratch off awardee. It does pay, funded by the Ohio Arts Council, books sell briskly, longest running consecutive series in Ohio. Backchannel me. Be well-- David Baratier, co-coordinator, Larry's Poetry Forum ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 17:37:58 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adeena Karasick Subject: the latest from al jazeera MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The attached video will take about five minutes to watch. Note the attitude=20 of the moderator... I wonder how long she will remain alive after this=E2= =80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6 =20 This was shown on Al Jazeera television, The woman is Wafa Sultan, an=20 Arab-American psychologist from LA.=20 Given her "heretical' stance, i don't know how long the link will be active.= =20 Make sure to double click on the video to enlarge the picture so as to beabl= e=20 to read the English translation. http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ai=3D214&ar=3D1= 050wmv&ak=3Dnull =20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 15:08:32 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Paul Catafago Subject: Re: the latest from al jazeera: WHAT THE FUCK DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH POETICS? In-Reply-To: <4bd.1a369980.3203c6b6@cs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I AM SICK AND TIRED OF HAVING TO RESPOND TO PROPOGANDISTS LIKE ADEEENA KARASICK. IT IS A TYPICAL TACTIC OF ANY OPPRESSOR TO USE SOMEONE FROM THE OPPRESSED COMMUNITY TO LEGITIMIZE THEIR PROJECT. SO HAVING AN ARAB PYCHOLOGIST SAY THAT ARABS, MUSLIMS ARE AT FAULT (TOTALLY EXONERATING GUILTY PARTIES SUCH AS BUSH, ISRAEL, ETC.) IS BRILLIANT! AND PERSONALLY IN A TIME WHEN INNOCENT LEBANESE ARE BEING DAILY SLAUGHTERED BY ISRAEL, I FIND THIS POST DISGUSTING. IN TERMS OF AL JEEZERA- I THINK THE FACT THEY AIRED THE INTERVIEW PROVES THEY ARE NOT A TOOL OF AL-QAIDA AS THE STATE DEPARTMENT HAS ASSERTED- BUT RATHER A LEGITIMATE NEWS SERVICE AIRING OPINIONS THAT RUN THE SPECTRUM. BUT AGAIN, WHAT THE FUCK DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH POETICS? Adeena Karasick wrote: The attached video will take about five minutes to watch. Note the attitude of the moderator... I wonder how long she will remain alive after this………… This was shown on Al Jazeera television, The woman is Wafa Sultan, an Arab-American psychologist from LA. Given her "heretical' stance, i don't know how long the link will be active. Make sure to double click on the video to enlarge the picture so as to beable to read the English translation. http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ai=214&ar=1050wmv&ak=null ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 18:09:15 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: paolo javier Subject: Re: the latest from al jazeera In-Reply-To: <4bd.1a369980.3203c6b6@cs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline I've seen my fair share of displays of self-hate in the past, but this one'= s gotta rank high up there. I give her credit, though--she certainly made the most of her airtime. On 8/3/06, Adeena Karasick wrote: > > The attached video will take about five minutes to watch. Note the > attitude > of the moderator... I wonder how long she will remain alive after this=85= =85=85=85 > > This was shown on Al Jazeera television, The woman is Wafa Sultan, an > Arab-American psychologist from LA. > > Given her "heretical' stance, i don't know how long the link will be > active. > Make sure to double click on the video to enlarge the picture so as to > beable > to read the English translation. > http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ai=3D214&ar=3D1050wmv&ak=3Dnull"> > http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ai=3D214&ar=3D1050wmv&ak=3Dnull > > --=20 http://www.lebanonlive.blogspot.com/ http://blog.myspace.com/paolojavier http://www.2ndavepoetry.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 15:09:38 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: the latest from al jazeera In-Reply-To: <4bd.1a369980.3203c6b6@cs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Adeena, I can't get http://switch3.castup.net , never mind the longer URL. ja > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Adeena Karasick > Sent: August 3, 2006 2:38 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: the latest from al jazeera >=20 >=20 > The attached video will take about five minutes to watch. Note=20 > the attitude=20 > of the moderator... I wonder how long she will remain alive after = this=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6 > =20 > This was shown on Al Jazeera television, The woman is Wafa Sultan, an=20 > Arab-American psychologist from LA.=20 >=20 > Given her "heretical' stance, i don't know how long the link will=20 > be active.=20 > Make sure to double click on the video to enlarge the picture so=20 > as to beable=20 > to read the English translation. > = HREF=3D"http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ai=3D214&ar=3D1050wmv&ak=3D= > = null">http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ai=3D214&ar=3D1050wmv&ak=3Dn= ull > =20 >=20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 19:04:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Treadwell Subject: What Killed Cody's (books) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi I thought some of you might be interested in this long local article on the closure of Cody's. It'll be my last post re the topic. Still in mourning, Elizabeth http://www.eastbayexpress.com/Issues/2006-08-02/news/feature.html Elizabeth Treadwell http://elizabethtreadwell.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 22:13:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Fwd: Download free Mideast peace posters Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 21:12:47 -0400 (EDT) >From: Jewish Voice for Peace >Reply-To: info@jewishvoiceforpeace.org >To: damon001@umn.edu > > > > >Dear maria, > >We asked >Lekas >Miller Design, a creative firm that does wonderful pro bono work for >us, to quickly turn over some simple posters that anyone could >download and print on a home computer. > >Download posters >here > >We know how upset you are about what's happening in Lebanon, Gaza >and Israel right now. We all are. Here is something simple but >effective that you can do. > >Download one or all of the posters on >this >page, including the ad that over 6,000 people have signed in just 1 >week! Put one or all of them up at school, at work, at your place of >worship or even in your window at home. > >Make the invisible, visible. Show the world that Jews and our allies >oppose the madness in the Middle East. > >Best > >Jewish Voice for Peace > > > > > > > > > >To unsubscribe, >click >here. > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 22:33:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: H Arnold Subject: weil poem In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed from Simone Weil, in Robert Coles, _Simone Weil: A Modern Pilgrimage_ -- as if it were possible to leave the fields where she worked -- a propos of nothing i guess -- except plant life and its intimacies rendered totally other "All noises have their meaning, they are all rhythmic, they fuse into a kind of giant respiration of the working collectivity in which it is exhilirating to play one's part. And because the sense of solitude is not touched, participation becomes even more exhilirating. Pursuing our hypothetical lead, there are only the metallic noises, the turning wheels, the bite of metal upon metal; noises that speak neither of nature or of life, but of the serious, steady, uninterrupted acting of men upon things. Though lost in this great hum, one also dominates it; for over this permanent, yet ever-changing drone bass, what stands out while somehow fused with it, is the sound of one's machine. One does not feel insignificant as in a crowd, but indispensable. The transmission belts, supposing them to be present, allow the eye to drink in that unity of rhythm which the whole body feels through the sounds and the barely perceptible vibration of everything. Through the wan hours of winter mournings and evenings when only the electric lights are shining, all the senses are participants in a universe where nothing recalls nature, where nothing is gratuitous, where everything is sheer impact, the painful yet conquering impact of man upon matter. The lamps, the belts, the noise, the hard-cold iron-work, all converge toward the transmutation of man into workman." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 22:42:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: H Arnold Subject: Re: weil poem In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I think this section from Annie Dillard completes the thought "Plunge into matter," Teilhard said--and at another time, "Plunge into God." And he said this fine thing: "By means of all created things, without exception, the divine assails us, penetrates us, and molds us. We imagined it as distant and inaccessible, whereas in fact we live steeped in its burning layers." -- a factory (Weil's) hidden within a field of wheat >From: H Arnold >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: weil poem >Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 22:33:24 -0500 > >from Simone Weil, in Robert Coles, _Simone Weil: A Modern Pilgrimage_ -- as >if it were possible to leave the fields where she worked -- a propos of >nothing i guess -- except plant life and its intimacies rendered totally >other > >"All noises have their meaning, they are all rhythmic, they fuse into a >kind of giant respiration of the working collectivity in which it is >exhilirating to play one's part. And because the sense of solitude is not >touched, participation becomes even more exhilirating. Pursuing our >hypothetical lead, there are only the metallic noises, the turning wheels, >the bite of metal upon metal; noises that speak neither of nature or of >life, but of the serious, steady, uninterrupted acting of men upon things. >Though lost in this great hum, one also dominates it; for over this >permanent, yet ever-changing drone bass, what stands out while somehow >fused with it, is the sound of one's machine. One does not feel >insignificant as in a crowd, but indispensable. The transmission belts, >supposing them to be present, allow the eye to drink in that unity of >rhythm which the whole body feels through the sounds and the barely >perceptible vibration of everything. Through the wan hours of winter >mournings and evenings when only the electric lights are shining, all the >senses are participants in a universe where nothing recalls nature, where >nothing is gratuitous, where everything is sheer impact, the painful yet >conquering impact of man upon matter. The lamps, the belts, the noise, the >hard-cold iron-work, all converge toward the transmutation of man into >workman." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 21:33:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jen Benka Subject: Finally With Women Reading Series MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit "Finally With Women," a five-day reading series at the Cornelia Street Cafe in NYC celebrating the work of Mina Loy, Audre Lorde, Barbara Guest, Muriel Rukeyser, and Gertrude Stein, kicks off on Sunday, August 6. The readings will run from 6-8 p.m. each night. For more info, including a list of readers, please visit: www.finallywithwomen.blogspot.com. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 01:22:05 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lucas Klein Subject: Re: the latest from al jazeera: WHAT THE FUCK DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH POETICS? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Paul Catafago: =20 What (the fuck) do you have to do with poetics? =20 I think of all people you (should) understand the link between poetics = and politics, and yet your question, shouted and yet so obviously inane, = belies your real intent: to be belligerent, to be a bully, to be = abusive. =20 I can tell from what you write and what you do, Paul, that you believe = yourself to be someone who stands up for the downtrodden. But as someone = who also tries to stand up for the downtrodden, I want to tell you that = you cannot stand up for the downtrodden if you in turn tread other = people down with aggression and insults. I will go further, Paul: your = behavior embarrasses me, because so often I want to agree with what you = say, and yet I am alienated and offended by how you say it. =20 Let me be clear: I am calling you out in a public forum. I am tired of = the way that you abuse people, whether you know them or don=E2=80=99t, = both in public and in private correspondence, and so I am calling you = out. I call on you to find a better, more responsible way to communicate = with people, express your views, and demonstrate that the best way of = standing up for the downtrodden is to help them to true strength, = instead of covering up your own weakness with aggressive posturing and = abuse. =20 As Wafa Sultan said: you can believe in stones, until you start throwing = them at me. =20 Lucas =20 =20 =20 Paul Catafago wrote: I AM SICK AND TIRED OF HAVING TO RESPOND TO PROPOGANDISTS LIKE ADEEENA = KARASICK. IT IS A TYPICAL TACTIC OF ANY OPPRESSOR TO USE SOMEONE FROM = THE OPPRESSED COMMUNITY TO LEGITIMIZE THEIR PROJECT. =20 SO HAVING AN ARAB PYCHOLOGIST SAY THAT ARABS, MUSLIMS ARE AT FAULT = (TOTALLY EXONERATING GUILTY PARTIES SUCH AS BUSH, ISRAEL, ETC.) IS = BRILLIANT! AND PERSONALLY IN A TIME WHEN INNOCENT LEBANESE ARE BEING DAILY = SLAUGHTERED BY ISRAEL, I FIND THIS POST DISGUSTING. IN TERMS OF AL JEEZERA- I THINK THE FACT THEY AIRED THE INTERVIEW = PROVES THEY ARE NOT A TOOL OF AL-QAIDA AS THE STATE DEPARTMENT HAS = ASSERTED- BUT RATHER A LEGITIMATE NEWS SERVICE AIRING OPINIONS THAT RUN = THE SPECTRUM. BUT AGAIN, WHAT THE FUCK DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH POETICS? =20 Adeena Karasick wrote: The attached video will take about five minutes to watch. Note the = attitude of the moderator... I wonder how long she will remain alive = after = this=C3=A2=E2=82=AC=C2=A6=C3=A2=E2=82=AC=C2=A6=C3=A2=E2=82=AC=C2=A6=C3=A2= =E2=82=AC=C2=A6 This was shown on Al Jazeera television, The woman is Wafa Sultan, an = Arab-American psychologist from LA.=20 Given her "heretical' stance, i don't know how long the link will be = active.=20 Make sure to double click on the video to enlarge the picture so as to = beable to read the English translation. http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ai=3D214 = = &ar=3D1050wmv&ak=3Dnull =20 =20 ________________________________________ "There are two ways of knowing, under standing and over bearing. The first is called wisdom. The second is called winning arguments." =E2=80=94Kenneth = Rexroth Lucas Klein LKlein@cipherjournal.com 216 Willow Street New Haven, CT 06511 ph: 203 676 0629 www.CipherJournal.com www.CipherJournal.blogspot.com =20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 22:34:05 -0700 Reply-To: pen@splab.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Paul Nelson Subject: Re: the latest from al jazeera: WHAT THE FUCK DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH POETICS? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lucas Klein wrote: > Dear Paul Catafago: > > What (the fuck) do you have to do with poetics? > > I think of all people you (should) understand the link between poetics and politics, and yet your question, shouted and yet so obviously inane, belies your real intent: to be belligerent, to be a bully, to be abusive. > > I can tell from what you write and what you do, Paul, that you believe yourself to be someone who stands up for the downtrodden. But as someone who also tries to stand up for the downtrodden, I want to tell you that you cannot stand up for the downtrodden if you in turn tread other people down with aggression and insults. I will go further, Paul: your behavior embarrasses me, because so often I want to agree with what you say, and yet I am alienated and offended by how you say it. > > Let me be clear: I am calling you out in a public forum. I am tired of the way that you abuse people, whether you know them or don’t, both in public and in private correspondence, and so I am calling you out. I call on you to find a better, more responsible way to communicate with people, express your views, and demonstrate that the best way of standing up for the downtrodden is to help them to true strength, instead of covering up your own weakness with aggressive posturing and abuse. > > As Wafa Sultan said: you can believe in stones, until you start throwing them at me. > The metaphor of Indra's Jeweled Net is attributed to an ancient Buddhist named *_Tu-Shun_* (557-640 B.C.E.) who asks us to envision a vast net that: * at each juncture there lies a jewel; * each jewel reflects all the other jewels in this cosmic matrix. * Every jewel represents an individual life form, atom, cell or unit of consciousness. * Each jewel, in turn, is intrinsically and intimately connected to all the others; * thus, a change in one gem is reflected in all the others. This last aspect of the jeweled net is explored in a question/answer dialog of teacher and student in the /Avatamsaka Sutra/. In answer to the question: "how can all these jewels be considered one jewel?" it is replied: "If you don't believe that one jewel...is all the jewels...just put a dot on the jewel [in question]. When one jewel is dotted, there are dots on all the jewels...Since there are dots on all the jewels...We know that all the jewels are one jewel" ...". The moral of Indra's net is that the compassionate and the constructive interventions a person makes or does can produce a ripple effect of beneficial action that will reverberate throughout the universe or until it plays out. By the same token you cannot damage one strand of the web without damaging the others or setting off a cascade effect of destruction. http://www.geocities.com/the_wanderling/awakening101.html#N1 Paul Nelson > > > Lucas > > > > > > > > Paul Catafago wrote: > > I AM SICK AND TIRED OF HAVING TO RESPOND TO PROPOGANDISTS LIKE ADEEENA KARASICK. IT IS A TYPICAL TACTIC OF ANY OPPRESSOR TO USE SOMEONE FROM THE OPPRESSED COMMUNITY TO LEGITIMIZE THEIR PROJECT. > > SO HAVING AN ARAB PYCHOLOGIST SAY THAT ARABS, MUSLIMS ARE AT FAULT (TOTALLY EXONERATING GUILTY PARTIES SUCH AS BUSH, ISRAEL, ETC.) IS BRILLIANT! > > AND PERSONALLY IN A TIME WHEN INNOCENT LEBANESE ARE BEING DAILY SLAUGHTERED BY ISRAEL, I FIND THIS POST DISGUSTING. > > IN TERMS OF AL JEEZERA- I THINK THE FACT THEY AIRED THE INTERVIEW PROVES THEY ARE NOT A TOOL OF AL-QAIDA AS THE STATE DEPARTMENT HAS ASSERTED- BUT RATHER A LEGITIMATE NEWS SERVICE AIRING OPINIONS THAT RUN THE SPECTRUM. > > BUT AGAIN, WHAT THE FUCK DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH POETICS? > > > > Adeena Karasick wrote: > > The attached video will take about five minutes to watch. Note the attitude of the moderator... I wonder how long she will remain alive after this………… > > This was shown on Al Jazeera television, The woman is Wafa Sultan, an Arab-American psychologist from LA. > > Given her "heretical' stance, i don't know how long the link will be active. > > Make sure to double click on the video to enlarge the picture so as to beable to read the English translation. > > http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ai=214 &ar=1050wmv&ak=null > > > > > > ________________________________________ > "There are two ways of knowing, under standing > and over bearing. The first is called wisdom. The > second is called winning arguments." > —Kenneth Rexroth > > Lucas Klein > > LKlein@cipherjournal.com > 216 Willow Street > New Haven, CT 06511 > ph: 203 676 0629 > > www.CipherJournal.com > www.CipherJournal.blogspot.com > > > > > > -- Paul E. Nelson www.GlobalVoicesRadio.org www.SPLAB.org www.AmericanSentences.com 908 I. St. N.E. #4 Slaughter, WA 98002 253.735.6328 toll-free 888.735.6328 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 23:14:00 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Paul Catafago Subject: Thank you Lucas In-Reply-To: <44D2DC4D.1080209@splab.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lucas, There are many people on this list who don't feel I bullied them. Unfortunately with the issues of China- and especially Lebanon and Palestine, I have been ferocious. In the case of the post response to Adeena Karasick pointing us out to a piece of video feauturing an Arab American pychologist blaming all the ills of the Arabs on Muslims and Arabs, well I guess you can call that the last straw. Well, whatever, I have no time for this. This list is populated by liberal Zionists, and I really have no time for that. So I am leaving, which I am sure will make some of you happy, like Lucas Klein. I will reiterate, if you had something personal with me- which was the case the first time you responded to me in the winter of 2005 (about how you were the China poetry expert and I was not), you should have done what human beings do and addressed me personally. You feel like somehow you are standing up for the people I offended on this list: BRAVO. The fact is I never ever described myslef as "someone who stands up for the downtrodden." If you see yourself that way it justr proves my point that you are exactly what I thought you were when I first came upon you: one gigantic pompous asshole. Right now what is on my mind is my people, that's all. I really did not want to offend anyone but there are some things that are unacceptable. Catafago Paul Nelson wrote: Lucas Klein wrote: > Dear Paul Catafago: > > What (the fuck) do you have to do with poetics? > > I think of all people you (should) understand the link between poetics and politics, and yet your question, shouted and yet so obviously inane, belies your real intent: to be belligerent, to be a bully, to be abusive. > > I can tell from what you write and what you do, Paul, that you believe yourself to be someone who stands up for the downtrodden. But as someone who also tries to stand up for the downtrodden, I want to tell you that you cannot stand up for the downtrodden if you in turn tread other people down with aggression and insults. I will go further, Paul: your behavior embarrasses me, because so often I want to agree with what you say, and yet I am alienated and offended by how you say it. > > Let me be clear: I am calling you out in a public forum. I am tired of the way that you abuse people, whether you know them or don’t, both in public and in private correspondence, and so I am calling you out. I call on you to find a better, more responsible way to communicate with people, express your views, and demonstrate that the best way of standing up for the downtrodden is to help them to true strength, instead of covering up your own weakness with aggressive posturing and abuse. > > As Wafa Sultan said: you can believe in stones, until you start throwing them at me. > The metaphor of Indra's Jeweled Net is attributed to an ancient Buddhist named *_Tu-Shun_* (557-640 B.C.E.) who asks us to envision a vast net that: * at each juncture there lies a jewel; * each jewel reflects all the other jewels in this cosmic matrix. * Every jewel represents an individual life form, atom, cell or unit of consciousness. * Each jewel, in turn, is intrinsically and intimately connected to all the others; * thus, a change in one gem is reflected in all the others. This last aspect of the jeweled net is explored in a question/answer dialog of teacher and student in the /Avatamsaka Sutra/. In answer to the question: "how can all these jewels be considered one jewel?" it is replied: "If you don't believe that one jewel...is all the jewels...just put a dot on the jewel [in question]. When one jewel is dotted, there are dots on all the jewels...Since there are dots on all the jewels...We know that all the jewels are one jewel" ...". The moral of Indra's net is that the compassionate and the constructive interventions a person makes or does can produce a ripple effect of beneficial action that will reverberate throughout the universe or until it plays out. By the same token you cannot damage one strand of the web without damaging the others or setting off a cascade effect of destruction. http://www.geocities.com/the_wanderling/awakening101.html#N1 Paul Nelson > > > Lucas > > > > > > > > Paul Catafago wrote: > > I AM SICK AND TIRED OF HAVING TO RESPOND TO PROPOGANDISTS LIKE ADEEENA KARASICK. IT IS A TYPICAL TACTIC OF ANY OPPRESSOR TO USE SOMEONE FROM THE OPPRESSED COMMUNITY TO LEGITIMIZE THEIR PROJECT. > > SO HAVING AN ARAB PYCHOLOGIST SAY THAT ARABS, MUSLIMS ARE AT FAULT (TOTALLY EXONERATING GUILTY PARTIES SUCH AS BUSH, ISRAEL, ETC.) IS BRILLIANT! > > AND PERSONALLY IN A TIME WHEN INNOCENT LEBANESE ARE BEING DAILY SLAUGHTERED BY ISRAEL, I FIND THIS POST DISGUSTING. > > IN TERMS OF AL JEEZERA- I THINK THE FACT THEY AIRED THE INTERVIEW PROVES THEY ARE NOT A TOOL OF AL-QAIDA AS THE STATE DEPARTMENT HAS ASSERTED- BUT RATHER A LEGITIMATE NEWS SERVICE AIRING OPINIONS THAT RUN THE SPECTRUM. > > BUT AGAIN, WHAT THE FUCK DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH POETICS? > > > > Adeena Karasick wrote: > > The attached video will take about five minutes to watch. Note the attitude of the moderator... I wonder how long she will remain alive after this………… > > This was shown on Al Jazeera television, The woman is Wafa Sultan, an Arab-American psychologist from LA. > > Given her "heretical' stance, i don't know how long the link will be active. > > Make sure to double click on the video to enlarge the picture so as to beable to read the English translation. > > http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ai=214 &ar=1050wmv&ak=null > > > > > > ________________________________________ > "There are two ways of knowing, under standing > and over bearing. The first is called wisdom. The > second is called winning arguments." > —Kenneth Rexroth > > Lucas Klein > > LKlein@cipherjournal.com > 216 Willow Street > New Haven, CT 06511 > ph: 203 676 0629 > > www.CipherJournal.com > www.CipherJournal.blogspot.com > > > > > > -- Paul E. Nelson www.GlobalVoicesRadio.org www.SPLAB.org www.AmericanSentences.com 908 I. St. N.E. #4 Slaughter, WA 98002 253.735.6328 toll-free 888.735.6328 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 00:37:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AG Jorgensen Subject: Online journals vs. Print In-Reply-To: <20060804061400.5024.qmail@web30510.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I know that the final answer is not one of either this or that, but have witnessed some writers prefer this over that. Too, there are those readers who are of the same pattern of choice. Lots of useful responses have been given in the past related to both and I'm hoping that this question might further illuminate the issue for me. Much of my work, and I've only submitted for about two years, has thusfar appeared in print, but then sometime there's this feeling that online is where it is at - sorta like MTV, one wonders, was a while ago - and both print and online, as you know, seem to be in competition. A tap dancer is how I often feel. AJ --- Good art however "immoral" is wholly a thing of virtue. Good art can NOT be immoral. By good art I mean art that bears true witness, I mean the art that is most precise. -- Ezra Pound __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 00:57:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: the latest from al jazeera: WHAT THE FUCK DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH POETICS? In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Lucas, That kind of nasty talk doesnt help. Come on. g On 3-Aug-06, at 10:22 PM, Lucas Klein wrote: > Dear Paul Catafago: > > > > What (the fuck) do you have to do with poetics? > > > > I think of all people you (should) understand the link between poetics=20= > and politics, and yet your question, shouted and yet so obviously=20 > inane, belies your real intent: to be belligerent, to be a bully, to=20= > be abusive. > > > > I can tell from what you write and what you do, Paul, that you believe=20= > yourself to be someone who stands up for the downtrodden. But as=20 > someone who also tries to stand up for the downtrodden, I want to tell=20= > you that you cannot stand up for the downtrodden if you in turn tread=20= > other people down with aggression and insults. I will go further,=20 > Paul: your behavior embarrasses me, because so often I want to agree=20= > with what you say, and yet I am alienated and offended by how you say=20= > it. > > > > Let me be clear: I am calling you out in a public forum. I am tired of=20= > the way that you abuse people, whether you know them or don=92t, both = in=20 > public and in private correspondence, and so I am calling you out. I=20= > call on you to find a better, more responsible way to communicate with=20= > people, express your views, and demonstrate that the best way of=20 > standing up for the downtrodden is to help them to true strength,=20 > instead of covering up your own weakness with aggressive posturing and=20= > abuse. > > > > As Wafa Sultan said: you can believe in stones, until you start=20 > throwing them at me. > > > > Lucas > > > > > > > > Paul Catafago wrote: > > I AM SICK AND TIRED OF HAVING TO RESPOND TO PROPOGANDISTS LIKE ADEEENA=20= > KARASICK. IT IS A TYPICAL TACTIC OF ANY OPPRESSOR TO USE SOMEONE FROM=20= > THE OPPRESSED COMMUNITY TO LEGITIMIZE THEIR PROJECT. > > SO HAVING AN ARAB PYCHOLOGIST SAY THAT ARABS, MUSLIMS ARE AT FAULT=20= > (TOTALLY EXONERATING GUILTY PARTIES SUCH AS BUSH, ISRAEL, ETC.) IS=20 > BRILLIANT! > > AND PERSONALLY IN A TIME WHEN INNOCENT LEBANESE ARE BEING DAILY=20 > SLAUGHTERED BY ISRAEL, I FIND THIS POST DISGUSTING. > > IN TERMS OF AL JEEZERA- I THINK THE FACT THEY AIRED THE INTERVIEW=20 > PROVES THEY ARE NOT A TOOL OF AL-QAIDA AS THE STATE DEPARTMENT HAS=20 > ASSERTED- BUT RATHER A LEGITIMATE NEWS SERVICE AIRING OPINIONS THAT=20 > RUN THE SPECTRUM. > > BUT AGAIN, WHAT THE FUCK DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH POETICS? > > > > Adeena Karasick wrote: > > The attached video will take about five minutes to watch. Note the=20= > attitude of the moderator... I wonder how long she will remain alive=20= > after this=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6 > > This was shown on Al Jazeera television, The woman is Wafa Sultan, an=20= > Arab-American psychologist from LA. > > Given her "heretical' stance, i don't know how long the link will be=20= > active. > > Make sure to double click on the video to enlarge the picture so as to=20= > beable to read the English translation. > > http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ai=3D214=20 > = =20 > &ar=3D1050wmv&ak=3Dnull > > > > > > ________________________________________ > "There are two ways of knowing, under standing > and over bearing. The first is called wisdom. The > second is called winning arguments." > =97Kenneth Rexroth > > Lucas Klein > > LKlein@cipherjournal.com > 216 Willow Street > New Haven, CT 06511 > ph: 203 676 0629 > > www.CipherJournal.com > = www.CipherJournal.blogspot.com > > > > George Bowering, OBC Spells better than most. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 01:34:45 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AG Jorgensen Subject: Midwest Poetry (places to read and listen) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Could some suggest places to read in the Midwest - am thinking Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois. Others much appreciated. AJ --- Good art however "immoral" is wholly a thing of virtue. Good art can NOT be immoral. By good art I mean art that bears true witness, I mean the art that is most precise. -- Ezra Pound __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 05:01:12 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: Midwest Poetry (places to read and listen) Comments: To: AG Jorgensen In-Reply-To: <20060804083445.87643.qmail@web53909.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable On 4 Aug 2006 at 1:34, AG Jorgensen wrote: > Could some suggest places to read in the Midwest - am > thinking Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois. Others much > appreciated. Every Saturday At Noon Literary Readings and Performances at Gallery 324 in the Galleria, in downtown Cleveland, Ohio August 5 - Gina Tabasso, Elise Geither, and Michael Billings August 12 - Miles Budimir, Ben Rader, August 19 - Geoff Landis, Mary Turzillo August 26 - Joanna Fuhrman, & Women of Season September 2 - Malkiese Paythress, Lynnette Howard, Maud Holm September 9 - Roger Craik, Clarissa Jakobsons, Katherine Blackbird September 16 - Leonard Kress, Eric Wallack September 30 - George Bilgere, Cletus Black, Claire McMahon, and Lisa Janssen, October 7 - Nina Gibans, Joyce Rice, October 14- Carly Sachs, Gianmarc Manzione October 21 - William Allegrezza, Ray Bianchi, Lou Suarez, and Mollie Chambers October 28 - d.a. levy event: rabbits over cleveland reading: mark kuhar, bree, s.a. griffin, bill roberts, and more November 4 - November 11 - Joanne Cornelius, Dan Smith, Wanda Sobieska, and J.E. Stanley November 18 - November 25 - No Reading - Thanksgiving Weekend The Art Shows coming to Gallery 324 in 2006 and early 2007 are: August 5 Opening, through Aug, 26: "Female Figure In Art" various artists and media, September 8 Opening, thorugh Sept, 30: "All Dolled Up", curated by Becky Smith, various media on the theme of "dolls" or "dolled up" October 20 Opening, through December 31: Storm Thorgerson, prints, originals in various media, designer of Pink Floyd=B4s and Led Zeppelin=B4s and other bands' album covers, January 6, 2007 Opening: "Best of NOIS" Show (Northeast Ohio Illustrator Society) Curated by George Kocar February 3 Opening: Eric Mull "The American Skyscraper" Book Publication Party, Signing, and Art Show, March 3 Opening: Biker Art Show; various media and artists on the theme of motorcycles and, we hope, a real motorcycle show in the arcade/mall DIRECTIONS to the GALLERIA From the west side 2 East - East Ninth Street, right - Lakeside, left - Galleria Parking Garage, right (if you get to 12th street you went too far - go around the block, right on 12th, right on St Clair, right on 9th, and right on Lakeside, and then right at the Parking Garage sign). Parking is Free on Saturdays, $3 after 4pm on Fridays. Go up the escalator or elevator to the FIRST FLOOR. Out of the elevator turn right and walk past the escalator to the Courtyard 480 - 176North - 90East - 2West (Lakewood) - East Ninth Street, left - Lakeside, left - Galleria Parking Garage, right (if you get to 12th street you went too far - go around the block, right on 12th, right on St Clair, right on 9th, and right on Lakeside, and then right at the Parking Garage sign) 71 North - 90 East - 90East - 2West (Lakewood) - East Ninth Street, left - Lakeside, left - Galleria Parking Garage, right (if you get to 12th street you went too far - go around the block, right on 12th, right on St Clair, right on 9th, and right on Lakeside, and then right at the Parking Garage sign) 77 North - 90East - 2West (Lakewood) - East Ninth Street, left - Lakeside, left - Galleria Parking Garage, right (if you get to 12th street you went too far - go around the block, right on 12th, right on St Clair, right on 9th, and right on Lakeside, and then right at the Parking Garage sign) From the east side 480 - 77 North - 90East - 2West (Lakewood) - East Ninth Street, left - Lakeside, left - Galleria Parking Garage, right (if you get to 12th street you went too far - go around the block, right on 12th, right on St Clair, right on 9th, and right on Lakeside, and then right at the Parking Garage sign) 90 West - 2 West - East Ninth Street, left - Lakeside, left - Galleria Parking Garage, right (if you get to 12th street you went too far - go around the block, right on 12th, right on St Clair, right on 9th, and right on Lakeside, and then right at the Parking Garage sign) From the Heights Martin Luther King Jr Blvd North - 90 West - 2 west - East Ninth Street, left - Lakeside, left - Galleria Parking Garage, right (if you get to 12th street you went too far - go around the block, right on 12th, right on St Clair, right on 9th, and right on Lakeside, and then right at the Parking Garage sign) By RTA Rapid From wherever you are go to the Tower City station and change for the Waterfront Line - get off at East 9th street, up the stairs, turn right on East Ninth Street (away from the lake, away from the R&R Hall) walk half a block to Lakeside, cross Ninth Street to your left, cross Lakeside, and half a block further on is the Ninth Street Entrance to the Galleria. If the weather's nice, you can also walk from Tower City across Public Square away from the Terminal Tower building you came out of (the building in which the RTA Rapid lets you off) and toward the BP Building. Walk east (that is, turn right just past the BP building) on any of Superior, Rockwell, or St Clair streets, to East Ninth. Turn left. From St Clair, it's right there; from Rockwell, one block, from Superior two blocks, to the entrance at East Ninth and St Clair. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 05:44:17 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AMBogle2@AOL.COM Subject: AMB blog update August 4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Some of the new entries at Ann Margaret Bogle BLOG since June 11: Short story, "My Crush on Daniel Ortega" (previously published in Washington Review). Previously unpublished short story, "The Gift." Mixed-genre writing, "The Cool Report." Links & pics http://annbogle.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 07:44:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: the latest from al jazeera: what this does have to do with "poetics" In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I found the video of Dr. Wafa Sultan very intersting in the context of the discussions of civilians and genocide of American Indians. Dr. Sultan makes the classic opposition used against the Indians, and one used frequently by Israeli spokespersons and leaders against the Palestinans. This is the oppostion between civilization (in which there are civilians) and what Sultan characterizies as people of "backwardness", who are "primiitive" and act with "barbarity". Backwardness, primitive, barbarity--in short, "savages" wthout such modern wonders as democracy and science (which she says is primarily Jewish--usually used as a paranoid anti-semitic inditement, rather than a wholesale elevation). Acts of terror of course are carried out only by such savages--never by the civilized. (The word barbarian comes from the Greek: a person who did not speak Greek sounded to Greek ears as though they were saying "bar-bar-bah-bah-"etc--) Dr. Sultan invokes "rationality" in opposition to the "barbarity" of the "primitive"'s "backwardness" of thinking. And what has n't been the great role of this rationality in rationalizing the rationalized systematic extermination of "savage" "backward" peoples? (The gas chambers and systems of trains, of collecting every valuable, of making use of every part of the corpse, of using the near dead dead to tend to the dead--one of the triumphs of rationality--) When Dr. Sultan invokes a clash of eras, she is keeping alive and well many of the tropes of colonialism. I have heard ad infniitum the rationale of settlers in the Occupied Terrirtories, diverting the water, taking away the arable land, with small outposts protected against reservation/refugee camps by extreme force and the rationale is often that the people who have been here al this time were backwards and didn't know how to make a State, or modern scientific farms, etc. etc. In short, they are not "civilized" and thus not "civilians" and so have no rights. Therefore the land, water, resources, can't possibly be claimed by them, and if they protest, being savage, they are being "terrorists" and so the civilized thing to do is kill them all by any means necessary. Genocide is rationality, terrorism is savagery--which of course is far worse, being backward, primitive, with no regard for the life of civilians. (Barbarians, savages, not being civilians, are perfectly fine to slaugher whether men wormen or children, armed or unarmed.) The "clash of eras" is a 19th century attitude--an almost blind belief in "progress" via science and rationality and "democratic" reforms, regime changes, regulations of all sorts imposed on the "backwards" to make them tame animals capabale of providing the lowest forms of labor for their civilized masters. One of the great monuments to this rationality is the wall the Israelis are having put up--here rationality comes to its logical conclusion: the wall is being built by Palestinian workers. (Just as the Pharoahs used the captive Children of Israel in building the Pyramids.) My point is, if you think Dr. Sultan is a voice of "reason"--a brave outspoken "heretic"--think through what she is saying, what words she is using. When people who believe in progress talk about a clash of eras--what they mean is that the new one must eradicate, eliminate, compeltely erase and replace the old era. The new era is "good" "moral" "democratic" "civilized" "rational" "scientific"----as one can observe daily in its actions in Iraq, Lebanon, Palestine. There you can see al l the wonderful things Dr. Sultan is invoking in action. Dr. Sultan speaks of a 21st century era and thinking--yet what she is caught up in is the 19th century. For a twenty-first century peace to be possible, what is being thought in the twenty-first century can't be ignored, denied, refused as being part of the 21st century. (I.E. a 'Backwards" thought thought now--is being thought NOW--by a living person--persons who are not symbolically dead people or have no living rights because their thought is not "up to date".) At least begin with an encounter and dialogue in which each understands that the other is equally present and thinking in this moment of the present. If one followed Dr. Sultan's ideas, and it has been done many many times--one wd have a new genocide based on eliminating those who don't "belong" in the 21st Century. (I actually heard an Israeli Minister say this of the Palestinians--they don't belong here anyway as have never developed anything, not even a history as a "people", and so aren't part of the modern world. Pol Pot had very definite ideas also about who belonged in the time he wanted to create as the time of the new soceity.) "Language is one of the first casualities of war"--along with "look before you leap" one needs to "listen before you leap"-- >From: George Bowering >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: the latest from al jazeera: WHAT THE FUCK DOES THIS HAVE TO DO >WITH POETICS? >Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 00:57:43 -0700 > >Lucas, > >That kind of nasty talk doesnt help. >Come on. > >g > > >On 3-Aug-06, at 10:22 PM, Lucas Klein wrote: > >>Dear Paul Catafago: >> >> >> >>What (the fuck) do you have to do with poetics? >> >> >> >>I think of all people you (should) understand the link between poetics and >>politics, and yet your question, shouted and yet so obviously inane, >>belies your real intent: to be belligerent, to be a bully, to be abusive. >> >> >> >>I can tell from what you write and what you do, Paul, that you believe >>yourself to be someone who stands up for the downtrodden. But as someone >>who also tries to stand up for the downtrodden, I want to tell you that >>you cannot stand up for the downtrodden if you in turn tread other people >>down with aggression and insults. I will go further, Paul: your behavior >>embarrasses me, because so often I want to agree with what you say, and >>yet I am alienated and offended by how you say it. >> >> >> >>Let me be clear: I am calling you out in a public forum. I am tired of the >>way that you abuse people, whether you know them or don’t, both in public >>and in private correspondence, and so I am calling you out. I call on you >>to find a better, more responsible way to communicate with people, express >>your views, and demonstrate that the best way of standing up for the >>downtrodden is to help them to true strength, instead of covering up your >>own weakness with aggressive posturing and abuse. >> >> >> >>As Wafa Sultan said: you can believe in stones, until you start throwing >>them at me. >> >> >> >>Lucas >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>Paul Catafago wrote: >> >>I AM SICK AND TIRED OF HAVING TO RESPOND TO PROPOGANDISTS LIKE ADEEENA >>KARASICK. IT IS A TYPICAL TACTIC OF ANY OPPRESSOR TO USE SOMEONE FROM THE >>OPPRESSED COMMUNITY TO LEGITIMIZE THEIR PROJECT. >> >> SO HAVING AN ARAB PYCHOLOGIST SAY THAT ARABS, MUSLIMS ARE AT FAULT >>(TOTALLY EXONERATING GUILTY PARTIES SUCH AS BUSH, ISRAEL, ETC.) IS >>BRILLIANT! >> >> AND PERSONALLY IN A TIME WHEN INNOCENT LEBANESE ARE BEING DAILY >>SLAUGHTERED BY ISRAEL, I FIND THIS POST DISGUSTING. >> >> IN TERMS OF AL JEEZERA- I THINK THE FACT THEY AIRED THE INTERVIEW >>PROVES THEY ARE NOT A TOOL OF AL-QAIDA AS THE STATE DEPARTMENT HAS >>ASSERTED- BUT RATHER A LEGITIMATE NEWS SERVICE AIRING OPINIONS THAT RUN >>THE SPECTRUM. >> >> BUT AGAIN, WHAT THE FUCK DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH POETICS? >> >> >> >> Adeena Karasick wrote: >> >> The attached video will take about five minutes to watch. Note the >>attitude of the moderator... I wonder how long she will remain alive after >>this………… >> >>This was shown on Al Jazeera television, The woman is Wafa Sultan, an >>Arab-American psychologist from LA. >> >>Given her "heretical' stance, i don't know how long the link will be >>active. >> >>Make sure to double click on the video to enlarge the picture so as to >>beable to read the English translation. >> >>http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ai=214 >> >>&ar=1050wmv&ak=null >> >> >> >> >> >>________________________________________ >>"There are two ways of knowing, under standing >> and over bearing. The first is called wisdom. The >> second is called winning arguments." >> —Kenneth Rexroth >> >>Lucas Klein >> >> LKlein@cipherjournal.com >>216 Willow Street >>New Haven, CT 06511 >>ph: 203 676 0629 >> >> www.CipherJournal.com >> www.CipherJournal.blogspot.com >> >> >> >> >George Bowering, OBC >Spells better than most. _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 09:16:57 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: Online journals vs. Print In-Reply-To: <20060804073746.51929.qmail@web53904.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't think of print and online as being competition, although I guess a lot of people do. These days I try to get published online more than in print because online zines match print zines for quality, have more readers and save money on postage. The rises in postage rates over the years have taught me that if I spend nearly two dollars on a submission's round trip postage and I have to submit it thirty times before I find a publisher, I can issue a broadside or a small chapbook for the same amount. My internet fee covers the cost of submitting to online zines. I still value print zines, but prefer online's two-day wait time to a print zine's three-month wait. I do prefer to read books than printouts, so I'm glad to see that some online zines have begun to offer print versions. Each venue has it virtues and I don't make hard and fat rules about where I submit my work---except, as often as possible, to send work to people who really want it. Hope this helps. Vernon http://vernonfrazer.com -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of AG Jorgensen Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 3:38 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Online journals vs. Print I know that the final answer is not one of either this or that, but have witnessed some writers prefer this over that. Too, there are those readers who are of the same pattern of choice. Lots of useful responses have been given in the past related to both and I'm hoping that this question might further illuminate the issue for me. Much of my work, and I've only submitted for about two years, has thusfar appeared in print, but then sometime there's this feeling that online is where it is at - sorta like MTV, one wonders, was a while ago - and both print and online, as you know, seem to be in competition. A tap dancer is how I often feel. AJ --- Good art however "immoral" is wholly a thing of virtue. Good art can NOT be immoral. By good art I mean art that bears true witness, I mean the art that is most precise. -- Ezra Pound __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 06:40:23 -0700 Reply-To: Michael Tod Edgerton Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Tod Edgerton Subject: Re: Online journals vs. Print In-Reply-To: <20060804073746.51929.qmail@web53904.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Well, I'm sure nothing I'm about to say is new, but for my part, the best journals, of course, are print publications with web links--I love those! And why choose? My sense (and others on this list will know better than I) is that print journals such as New American Writing, Conjunctions, Verse, etc., etc. still hold more prestige, but that online journals sometimes have far larger readerships (though I'm not sure how exactly true this is; they certainly have the means to more easily distribute to a larger readership, but to what extent and by what advertising means that potential is or isn't fulfilled, I have no idea, although I think the main way is through links to/from other sites). I think journals like Free Verse, GutCult, Octopus, Typo, and Word For/Word (to name only a few) are "where it's at" in terms of publishing a lot of amazing writing by less established writers. I definitely have the sense that most (and often, all) of any journal's print pages are reserved for the well-booked. I, personally, have had great experiences with both. The only bad experience I've had, as an aside, was with one of the more established print journals in which I've published. They told me I should be "content, and even grateful" to have my work in their journal, even in "altered" form. The egotism! "Altered" feels euphemistic, although my usual "butchered" is perhaps melodramatic. They only compounded the situation by not publishing the poem on their website in its true form, as promised, for over 9 months (and even then...). I don't see online journals (or digital writing) supplanting "old fashioned" print journals/books--ever. I think the whole "digital revolution" in some ways is amazing and in others it is the revolution that is not one. I think--I certainly hope--that they will happily and peacefully co-exist in the world without U.S. military support/intervention. As far as the virtues I see in each, I'm a bit of a book fetishist and LOVE holding a book in my hands, carrying it around with me, flipping through the pages, etc. I miss that particular corporeal aspect in my online publications. Those, however, are more financially able to publish my work, the majority of which consists in longer poems/poem sequences that print publications don't have the space for (or won't make the space for--Michael Tod Who??). Can I hear a "Yet"? Somebody?? Anybody.... Tod Michael Tod Edgerton Poet-in-Residence, Spring 2006 Stonehill College __________________ Peter Kaplan Memorial Fellow, 2004 - 2006 Program in Literary Arts Brown University "There's the mute probability of a reciprocal lack of understanding" - Mei-mei Berssenbrugge ----- Original Message ---- From: AG Jorgensen To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Friday, August 4, 2006 3:37:46 AM Subject: Online journals vs. Print I know that the final answer is not one of either this or that, but have witnessed some writers prefer this over that. Too, there are those readers who are of the same pattern of choice. Lots of useful responses have been given in the past related to both and I'm hoping that this question might further illuminate the issue for me. Much of my work, and I've only submitted for about two years, has thusfar appeared in print, but then sometime there's this feeling that online is where it is at - sorta like MTV, one wonders, was a while ago - and both print and online, as you know, seem to be in competition. A tap dancer is how I often feel. AJ --- Good art however "immoral" is wholly a thing of virtue. Good art can NOT be immoral. By good art I mean art that bears true witness, I mean the art that is most precise. -- Ezra Pound __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 03:45:56 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabrielle Welford Subject: Re: expectation In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT oration? > > On Thu, 3 Aug 2006, Halvard Johnson wrote: > > > expect(or)ation > > > > Hal > > > > Serving the tristate area. > > > > Halvard Johnson > > ================ > > halvard@gmail.com > > halvard@earthlink.net > > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > > > gabrielle welford > welford@hawaii.edu > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.595 / Virus Database: 378 - Release Date: 2/25/2004 > > wilhelm reich > anarcho-syndicalism > gut/heart/head/earth > gabrielle welford welford@hawaii.edu Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.595 / Virus Database: 378 - Release Date: 2/25/2004 wilhelm reich anarcho-syndicalism gut/heart/head/earth ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 09:53:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Daniel f. Bradley" Subject: Re: Online journals vs. Print In-Reply-To: <20060804131735.UBPO29892.ibm70aec.bellsouth.net@vernon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit actually i just got in the mail my print version of otoliths number 1 and i must say i really like the print verion better – but in terms of speed and timing online is better with my zine i print evey 3 months and but i get most of my submission by e-mail now and i am genreral able to responde with in a day or two (fhole # 9will be shipped out to contributor next week) i really do like flipping the pages of paper much more than moving around a site.. Vernon Frazer wrote: I don't think of print and online as being competition, although I guess a lot of people do. These days I try to get published online more than in print because online zines match print zines for quality, have more readers and save money on postage. The rises in postage rates over the years have taught me that if I spend nearly two dollars on a submission's round trip postage and I have to submit it thirty times before I find a publisher, I can issue a broadside or a small chapbook for the same amount. My internet fee covers the cost of submitting to online zines. I still value print zines, but prefer online's two-day wait time to a print zine's three-month wait. I do prefer to read books than printouts, so I'm glad to see that some online zines have begun to offer print versions. Each venue has it virtues and I don't make hard and fat rules about where I submit my work---except, as often as possible, to send work to people who really want it. Hope this helps. Vernon http://vernonfrazer.com -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of AG Jorgensen Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 3:38 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Online journals vs. Print I know that the final answer is not one of either this or that, but have witnessed some writers prefer this over that. Too, there are those readers who are of the same pattern of choice. Lots of useful responses have been given in the past related to both and I'm hoping that this question might further illuminate the issue for me. Much of my work, and I've only submitted for about two years, has thusfar appeared in print, but then sometime there's this feeling that online is where it is at - sorta like MTV, one wonders, was a while ago - and both print and online, as you know, seem to be in competition. A tap dancer is how I often feel. AJ --- Good art however "immoral" is wholly a thing of virtue. Good art can NOT be immoral. By good art I mean art that bears true witness, I mean the art that is most precise. -- Ezra Pound __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com helping to kill your literati star since 2004 http://fhole.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 03:53:30 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabrielle Welford Subject: Re: weil poem In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT simone weil, annie dillard, and teilhard yes, though i can't think it fine to be such a martyr as simone weil. mary tallmountain was a franciscan and loved teilhard de chardin, as well as her native athabascan spirituality. her poems are praise to this amazing quote you've given. i live my life by it, which is why the blase distance of relativity is so repugnant. thanks for the quote. best, gabe On Thu, 3 Aug 2006, H Arnold wrote: > I think this section from Annie Dillard completes the thought > > "Plunge into matter," Teilhard said--and at another time, "Plunge into God." > And he said this fine thing: "By means of all created things, without > exception, the divine assails us, penetrates us, and molds us. We imagined > it as distant and inaccessible, whereas in fact we live steeped in its > burning layers." > > -- a factory (Weil's) hidden within a field of wheat > > > >From: H Arnold > >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >Subject: weil poem > >Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 22:33:24 -0500 > > > >from Simone Weil, in Robert Coles, _Simone Weil: A Modern Pilgrimage_ -- as > >if it were possible to leave the fields where she worked -- a propos of > >nothing i guess -- except plant life and its intimacies rendered totally > >other > > > >"All noises have their meaning, they are all rhythmic, they fuse into a > >kind of giant respiration of the working collectivity in which it is > >exhilirating to play one's part. And because the sense of solitude is not > >touched, participation becomes even more exhilirating. Pursuing our > >hypothetical lead, there are only the metallic noises, the turning wheels, > >the bite of metal upon metal; noises that speak neither of nature or of > >life, but of the serious, steady, uninterrupted acting of men upon things. > >Though lost in this great hum, one also dominates it; for over this > >permanent, yet ever-changing drone bass, what stands out while somehow > >fused with it, is the sound of one's machine. One does not feel > >insignificant as in a crowd, but indispensable. The transmission belts, > >supposing them to be present, allow the eye to drink in that unity of > >rhythm which the whole body feels through the sounds and the barely > >perceptible vibration of everything. Through the wan hours of winter > >mournings and evenings when only the electric lights are shining, all the > >senses are participants in a universe where nothing recalls nature, where > >nothing is gratuitous, where everything is sheer impact, the painful yet > >conquering impact of man upon matter. The lamps, the belts, the noise, the > >hard-cold iron-work, all converge toward the transmutation of man into > >workman." > gabrielle welford welford@hawaii.edu Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.595 / Virus Database: 378 - Release Date: 2/25/2004 wilhelm reich anarcho-syndicalism gut/heart/head/earth ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 10:00:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Phil Primeau Subject: PLAIN SPEAK/SWEET SPEAK (e-chap release) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline *Plain Speak/Sweet Speak * G Emil Reutter & Phil Primeau PERSISTENCIA*PRESS (2006) 36 pg., electronic (.pdf) PERSISTENCIA is proud to present *Plain Speak/Sweet Speak *, a dynamic collaboration between G Emil Reutter and Phil Primeau. The double chap of "plain sweet poetry" consists of two parts: the base text and the "remixed" text. From the Editor's Intro: *This chapbook demonstrates not only the versatility of language, but also the necessity of subtextual examination. It allows reflection on cultural and linguistic patterns and forces the reader to consider the flexibility of the written unit. To the regret of elementary school grammar teachers everywhere, a piece of literature is not a sandwich. It is not a discreet continuum with a beginning, middle, and end. Rather, it is an onion. It is a rug of thickly woven thematic and narrative elements. *Four from the chap: *porch *(Reutter) cool breeze chimes ring humidity dissipates chair rocks in rhythm darkness of night arrives settling down contentment sets in as fire fly dances in the night air *Seconds *(Primeau) She sits on wavy hair in a long frame by early morning sun! Bodies sit up in us, we meet frozen her head rests upon) this will always be in mind. * * * * * * * * *moment *(Reutter) * *she sits on edge of bed long wavy hair covering frame silhouetted by early morning sun i sit up our bodies meet her head rests upon my shoulder a moment frozen in time a moment that will always be in my mind * Seconds *(Primeau) She sits on wavy hair in a long frame by early morning sun! Bodies sit up in us, we meet frozen her head rests upon) this will always be in mind. *http://www.freewebs.com/persistenciapress/gerpp_psss.pdf* ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 08:19:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: Online journals vs. Print In-Reply-To: <20060804073746.51929.qmail@web53904.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I've been submitting almost totally to online journals for the past year and a half and find it much less troublesome than sending to print journals through the mail. Generally the wait, both for decision and publication, is much less with online zines. This is the main seductive factor behind my switch, after thirt years of publishing in print journals. Still, as some of the print journals I submitted to over two years ago have recently, at long last, found their way into my mailbox, I am reminded of the joy of holding the work in my hands, the joy of personal possession of a physical object, which online does not provide. So I suspect that at some time, I will start the SASE grind with print magazines again. Regards, Tom Savage AG Jorgensen wrote: I know that the final answer is not one of either this or that, but have witnessed some writers prefer this over that. Too, there are those readers who are of the same pattern of choice. Lots of useful responses have been given in the past related to both and I'm hoping that this question might further illuminate the issue for me. Much of my work, and I've only submitted for about two years, has thusfar appeared in print, but then sometime there's this feeling that online is where it is at - sorta like MTV, one wonders, was a while ago - and both print and online, as you know, seem to be in competition. A tap dancer is how I often feel. AJ --- Good art however "immoral" is wholly a thing of virtue. Good art can NOT be immoral. By good art I mean art that bears true witness, I mean the art that is most precise. -- Ezra Pound __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 11:26:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: Online Journals Rock The House In-Reply-To: <20060804151923.92742.qmail@web31109.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Come see !!! BlazeVOX [books] http://www.blazevox.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 08:24:53 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: justin sirois Subject: Re: Online Journals Rock The House In-Reply-To: <003001c6b7da$567e7740$050aa8c0@adminstret4wjx> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit i second that, Blaze on! --- Geoffrey Gatza wrote: > Come see !!! > > BlazeVOX [books] > > http://www.blazevox.org > . . . . . . . http://www.narrowhouserecordings.com/ a record label primarily interested in contemporary writing, poetics and the political __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 10:47:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Fwd: The Diamond That Cuts Through Illusion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" fwded from a student of Thich Nhat Hanh > Subject: The Diamond That Cuts Through Illusion >Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2006 11:23:08 -0400 >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Aug 2006 15:23:13.0393 (UTC) >FILETIME=[BC58BE10:01C6B710] > >...non-duality is the essential characteristic of love. In love, >the person who loves and the person being loved are not two. Love >has an organic characteristic. In light of interbeing, all problems >of the world and of humankind should be solved according to the >principles of organic love and non-dual understanding. These >principles can be applied to solve the problems of the Middle >East... the suffering of one side is also the suffering of the other >side. The mistakes of one side are also the mistakes of the other >side. When one side is angry the other side suffers and vice versa. >These principles can also be applied to solve environmental >problems, such as the greenhouse effect and the depletion of the >ozone layer. Rivers, oceans, forests, mountains, earth, and rocks >are all our body. To protect the living environment is also to >protect ourselves, This is the organic, non-dualistic nature of the >Buddhist way of looking at conflicts, the the environment, and love. > > Thich Nhat Hanh > from "The Diamond That Cuts Through Illusion" (p. 102) > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 10:28:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: Thank you Lucas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit you bullied me back channel should i share it? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 10:07:15 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: the latest from al jazeera: WHAT THE FUCK DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH POETICS? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i hope i'm forgiven at least ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 08:50:07 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: This Sunday in Portland, Oregon Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit If you are in the neighborhood: Spare Room Reading Series presents Stephen Vincent David Abel Sunday, August 6th 7:30 pm New American Art Union 922 SE Ankeny Street $5 suggested donation www.flim.com/spareroom spareroom@flim.com Upcoming readings: September 24: Daniel Comiskey & Kaia Sand October 8: Mary Burger & Nico Vassilakis November 12: Elizabeth Arnold & Patrick Hartigan ================================================================ Poet, essayist, editor, and long-time resident of San Francisco, Stephen Vincent was founder, publisher, and editor of Momo's Press and Shocks magazine in the nineteen-seventies. During the eighties and early nineties, he was the founding Director of Bedford Arts, Publishers, which became an internationally renowned publisher of art books. Stephen Vincent's most recent books of poetry include Walking (Junction Press), A Walk Toward Spicer (Cherry On the Top Press), and two ebooks, Sleeping With Sappho (http://www.fauxpress.com/e/vincent/), and Triggers (http://www.shearsman.com/pages/books/ebooks/ebooks_home.html). Walking Theory is scheduled for publication in 2007. Vincent maintains a popular blog of new poetry, art, and political commentary, occasionally including photos (http://stephenvincent.net/blog), and has recently returned from a reading tour that included the Soundeye Poetry Festival in Cork, Ireland, and Glasgow and Edinburgh, Scotland. David Abel has the most extraordinary air of self-satisfaction. Yet, if we stop to examine those Chinese writings of his that he so presumptuously scatters about the place, we find that they are full of imperfections. Someone who makes such an effort to be different from others is bound to fall in people's esteem, and I can only think that his future will be a hard one. He is a gifted man, to be sure. Yet, if one gives free rein to one's emotions even under the most inappropriate circumstances, if one has to sample each interesting thing that comes along, people are bound to regard one as frivolous. And how can things turn out well for such a man? (Diary of Murasaki Shikibu) ================================================================ from Triggers: Ascend and dive and don't tell me a thing I've got a good love on the loose A wet madrone, skin pealing, its bone bare trunk Never stop for thought, especially when the going's good She's inside me, then out, tactile as a banana or something to munch Spasms spring tender illuminations mauve and pink - I am a young man now and a young man then: Live live live. -- Stephen Vincent Past's coast is peril's shipwreck Coast's past is shipwreck's peril Shipwreck's peril is past's coast Peril's coast is shipwreck's past Street's father is package's acid Tube's marker is holiday's chain Bucket's knot is hearsay's skirt Shuffle's schedule is solstice's mold -- David Abel ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 08:57:19 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Diane DiPrima Subject: Re: Online journals vs. Print In-Reply-To: <20060804073746.51929.qmail@web53904.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit At my age, I have to limit my time at the computer (back problems) and since I write all my prose on the computer, and keep up with most of my correspondence there (both hard-copy MAILED letters and e-mail), I hardly ever got to the screen to do any reading for pleasure or to explore poetry. A book will accompany me to bed, or the lounge chair; I can read it on a bus or train. As well as being often a beautiful object in itself. Oh, and did I mention my eyes don't like the computer screen? Anything longer than a page, I print out to read. D di P > From: AG Jorgensen > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 00:37:46 -0700 > To: > Subject: Online journals vs. Print > > I know that the final answer is not one of either this > or that, but have witnessed some writers prefer this > over that. Too, there are those readers who are of the > same pattern of choice. Lots of useful responses have > been given in the past related to both and I'm hoping > that this question might further illuminate the issue > for me. > > Much of my work, and I've only submitted for about two > years, has thusfar appeared in print, but then > sometime there's this feeling that online is where it > is at - sorta like MTV, one wonders, was a while ago - > and both print and online, as you know, seem to be in > competition. A tap dancer is how I often feel. > > AJ > > --- > Good art however "immoral" is wholly a thing of virtue. Good art can NOT be > immoral. By good art I mean art that bears true witness, I mean the art that > is most precise. -- Ezra Pound > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 11:44:01 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Favors... Comments: To: lucipo listserv , mackus_daddius@riseup.net, sedici group , sergio pg barrale , aaron debruski Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Hey, my friend's kid is going to grow up to be a brilliant little poet. But= he needs your help.=20 Go to: evenflo.com click on the right hand side with the camera and baby "flash" (baby you're = a star!" enter code number 6339 (It's Miles, in his carseat!) Vote for this photo! my friends would greatly appreciate it Christophe Casamassima --=20 ___________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.graffiti.net/ Powered By Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 09:48:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Online journals vs. Print In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I find converting 'text docs' into PDFs - including my own - much more pleasing than, say, reading this text. Most On-line mags are done in PDF - which can make them much pleasing to read (tho the factor of poor design can even screw that up). But, I agree, Diane, the portability of a book - especially if its on good stock, well printed, comfortably bound, etc. - is a pleasure. On the other hand, I am sure it's no issue with young people - who are probably now born with electronic devices that are immediately attached to their bodies - to take all-in-on multiple task cell phone, text message devices, cameras, audio recorders, dvd players and digital book readers on to the bus, for a walk in the park, on the street, etc., etc! Stephen V http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ Where currently is an account of The Soundeye Poetry Festival Cork, July 6 - 9/ 2006. > At my age, I have to limit my time at the computer (back problems) and since > I write all my prose on the computer, and keep up with most of my > correspondence there (both hard-copy MAILED letters and e-mail), I hardly > ever got to the screen to do any reading for pleasure or to explore poetry. > > A book will accompany me to bed, or the lounge chair; I can read it on a bus > or train. As well as being often a beautiful object in itself. > > Oh, and did I mention my eyes don't like the computer screen? Anything > longer than a page, I print out to read. > > D di P > > >> From: AG Jorgensen >> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >> Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 00:37:46 -0700 >> To: >> Subject: Online journals vs. Print >> >> I know that the final answer is not one of either this >> or that, but have witnessed some writers prefer this >> over that. Too, there are those readers who are of the >> same pattern of choice. Lots of useful responses have >> been given in the past related to both and I'm hoping >> that this question might further illuminate the issue >> for me. >> >> Much of my work, and I've only submitted for about two >> years, has thusfar appeared in print, but then >> sometime there's this feeling that online is where it >> is at - sorta like MTV, one wonders, was a while ago - >> and both print and online, as you know, seem to be in >> competition. A tap dancer is how I often feel. >> >> AJ >> >> --- >> Good art however "immoral" is wholly a thing of virtue. Good art can NOT be >> immoral. By good art I mean art that bears true witness, I mean the art that >> is most precise. -- Ezra Pound >> >> __________________________________________________ >> Do You Yahoo!? >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >> http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 10:00:03 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Matt Henriksen Subject: Polish poets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Looking for Polish poets or translators in Greenpoint, Brooklyn. . Thanks. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 12:02:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: Online journals vs. Print In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As for me, when I go out for a walk nowadays, I carry no laptop, no cell phone (never owned one), no books. A camera? Yes . . . sometimes. Sometimes, however, I carry a book or a laptop from a shelf or table or desk to a chair or a couch. Hal Serving the tristate area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@gmail.com halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Aug 4, 2006, at 11:48 AM, Stephen Vincent wrote: > I find converting 'text docs' into PDFs - including my own - much more > pleasing than, say, reading this text. Most On-line mags are done > in PDF - > which can make them much pleasing to read (tho the factor of poor > design can > even screw that up). > > But, I agree, Diane, the portability of a book - especially if its > on good > stock, well printed, comfortably bound, etc. - is a pleasure. On > the other > hand, I am sure it's no issue with young people - who are probably > now born > with electronic devices that are immediately attached to their > bodies - to > take all-in-on multiple task cell phone, text message devices, > cameras, > audio recorders, dvd players and digital book readers on to the > bus, for a > walk in the park, on the street, etc., etc! > > Stephen V > http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ > Where currently is an account of > The Soundeye Poetry Festival > Cork, July 6 - 9/ 2006. > > > > > > >> At my age, I have to limit my time at the computer (back problems) >> and since >> I write all my prose on the computer, and keep up with most of my >> correspondence there (both hard-copy MAILED letters and e-mail), I >> hardly >> ever got to the screen to do any reading for pleasure or to >> explore poetry. >> >> A book will accompany me to bed, or the lounge chair; I can read >> it on a bus >> or train. As well as being often a beautiful object in itself. >> >> Oh, and did I mention my eyes don't like the computer screen? >> Anything >> longer than a page, I print out to read. >> >> D di P >> >> >>> From: AG Jorgensen >>> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >>> Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 00:37:46 -0700 >>> To: >>> Subject: Online journals vs. Print >>> >>> I know that the final answer is not one of either this >>> or that, but have witnessed some writers prefer this >>> over that. Too, there are those readers who are of the >>> same pattern of choice. Lots of useful responses have >>> been given in the past related to both and I'm hoping >>> that this question might further illuminate the issue >>> for me. >>> >>> Much of my work, and I've only submitted for about two >>> years, has thusfar appeared in print, but then >>> sometime there's this feeling that online is where it >>> is at - sorta like MTV, one wonders, was a while ago - >>> and both print and online, as you know, seem to be in >>> competition. A tap dancer is how I often feel. >>> >>> AJ >>> >>> --- >>> Good art however "immoral" is wholly a thing of virtue. Good art >>> can NOT be >>> immoral. By good art I mean art that bears true witness, I mean >>> the art that >>> is most precise. -- Ezra Pound >>> >>> __________________________________________________ >>> Do You Yahoo!? >>> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >>> http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 10:12:04 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: Online journals vs. Print In-Reply-To: <20060804073746.51929.qmail@web53904.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed I personally never send things to any journal that requires hardcopy submissions sent through the mail. it's dumb and takes too much time. that makes more of a difference to me than whether the rag is published electronically or in paper. I just hate printing out copies of poems, sticking them in envelopes, writing out my address on the SASE, putting it in the mailbox, all of that shit. it sucks and i refuse to do it. luckily there are some very cool places like Fence and blazeVOX that take online submissions, and that means that they get a better shot at my poetry. which is good for them, because i'm great. On Fri, 4 Aug 2006, AG Jorgensen wrote: > I know that the final answer is not one of either this > or that, but have witnessed some writers prefer this > over that. Too, there are those readers who are of the > same pattern of choice. Lots of useful responses have > been given in the past related to both and I'm hoping > that this question might further illuminate the issue > for me. > > Much of my work, and I've only submitted for about two > years, has thusfar appeared in print, but then > sometime there's this feeling that online is where it > is at - sorta like MTV, one wonders, was a while ago - > and both print and online, as you know, seem to be in > competition. A tap dancer is how I often feel. > > AJ > > --- > Good art however "immoral" is wholly a thing of virtue. Good art can NOT be immoral. By good art I mean art that bears true witness, I mean the art that is most precise. -- Ezra Pound > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 14:03:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aryanil Mukherjee Subject: Re: Online journals vs. Print In-Reply-To: A MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Diane DiPrima's response sort of tempted me to include an excerpt from an interview that was published in an Indian journal in 2004. Sabyasachi Sanyal, a Stockholm based, young Bengali language poet, interviewed me about Kaurab Online(www.kaurab.com) , the online version of a veteran Bengali alternative literary magazine (focusses largely on poetry) I edit. I started editing this online magazine in 1997 when I lived in LA. The purpose then, was a desperate bid to stay connected with my Indian poet friends who edited the print mag. It was a strange call at that hour. "Webzine" was new and nebulous notion; trying to accomplish that in Bengali script was another huge challenge. However, we did our most trying to reap our best seeds on unknown soil. The first Indian online poetry magazine was thus born. Probably pre-nupital and pre-mature. I say "pre-mature", as this was only the second website in an Indian language script in world wide web. An alternative literary journal born way before the leading dailies - it was probably a foolish effort on my part to bring in the automobile way before the bullock-cart. But it paid off. The excerpt is below - Aryanil Mukherjee ___________________________________________________________________________ SS : You have said before that you see "ages separating an online magazine from a print magazine" - please explain. What are the real differences, pros & cons etc. ? AM: A book/magazine goes to the press to die. I view every book release event as a funeral. Let me explain. The book is a "pierre-ecrite" at that point. A thing of the past. Nothing is going to change in there. Nothing is going to change it until a new edition comes out. Even a typo is going to remain a "typo"; might even be elevated to a angelic note or relegated to a whimp. I always wanted to ask a poet, why he/she never considered changing/rewriting a published poem. An online magazine/e-book at least tempts us with such an opportunity. Let me simplify. Pointwise. 1. A printed magazine issue can never be changed for good or bad. An online mag issue could be continuously renewed, if you wish. I could present you some very practical situations here. Let's say, you did a special online issue on contemporary Turkish poetry today. Three years later down the road you come across a very important poet whom you missed out during your maiden voyage. You could post-process history, add him to that archived issue. You can fix your past. Don't need to be Harry Potter. 2. We all understand the advantages involved with circulation. Especially in developing countries like India, where vernacular literature lacks proper infrastructure and archival mechanisms, where library science is in a pretty primitive state, an online mag brings a lot more hope to experimental/alternative literary efforts. It is like visiting a graveyard in a poor town. Look for the dead flowers, look for moss on the tombstones. You could tell the town's present from those pictures. Kaurab Online presents a very practical example where online existence has even helped alternative literature outlive some gross populistic work (because they didn't have websites). 3. In most cases, you need to buy the print magazine. You don't buy a lot of online magazines. You don't need to. For less than a quarter of the printing cost you could run an online magazine, 12 issues a year, hopefully with a larger audience. And remember, with a world-wide readership. I believe alternative literature needs to look beyond the local coffee-pub environ and its cultural climate. There is always a different reader, with a different viewpoint at a different place. And there are more lovers of alternative literature elsewhere than you can think. With a print mag, we could not even dream of reaching that "elsewhere". Now we can at least dream. Once again I have to add here, Kaurab opened my eyes. Back in 1997-98, when I started the online webzine, I couldn't have possibly dreamed that, more than 80% of its current readership, which is in the thousands, came from outside Bengal. It also created more opportunity for the print issue. The print-issue went globe-trotting and by the way, only about 100-200 printed copies sell in Calcutta. It is really....really....hard for me to believe these numbers and the disparity between them. 4. Next, the archival issue. Have I seen the first issue (1969) of Kaurab ? No. I don't think I'll ever see that. Out of the 100 issues we have printed in the last 34 years, we have very few left in print. It is history a bit too soon. That's almost always the case with little magazines anywhere on this planet. But, Kaurab wasn't all that little. Yet...... And twenty years from now you'll still be able to find the first online issue from 1997; anyday, anytime, from anytown. For someone like me, who was born in the 60s, didn't see computers in high-school, it's arouses a thrill everytime I think about it. 5. And suppose we were still left with a few copies of all of our 100 printed issues, in a growing human jungle like India, where would you find a place to store them ? How much do you have to pay for its conservation ? The few gigabytes of cyberspace (when mapped to real 3D space, may not seem bigger than tiniest piece of nail your nail-cutter could slice) seems to offer a "gun-to-kill-a-fly" solution. 6. Here is another example, once again, from real life. I know an American Magazine that recently altered fonts in all of their online issues from the past 3 years. Was that ever an option with print mags ? 7. Don't just think of fonts, backgrounds, colors and links. An online magazine is a multimedia experience unlike a print mag. It provides you a space where a painter or an animator could converse much better with a writer/poet. In some of the early issues of Kaurab Online, we have even tried to use animation art to illustrate poems. I'm not claiming that we achieved something huge..... SS : Could you give us some examples ? AM : Sure. Like with Kamal Chakraborty's 1970 poem - "Raining in Jamshedpur" we used an animated gif of a lighting image on the background of the poem. I have seen a French webzine showing animated pixel-art with Appolinaire's poem - Rain. These are artistic opportunities that came into being with this media itself. SS : Visual clues ?....Isn't that.... AM : Sure, you could argue if it is a wise thing to include "visual clues" or visual support with poetry. I don't want to get into a philosophical argument on that; I'm just trying to point out that the cyber media and eventually online mags, present us with umpteen opportunities where strange fields of arts could engage in the strangest possible ways. -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Diane DiPrima Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 11:57 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Online journals vs. Print At my age, I have to limit my time at the computer (back problems) and since I write all my prose on the computer, and keep up with most of my correspondence there (both hard-copy MAILED letters and e-mail), I hardly ever got to the screen to do any reading for pleasure or to explore poetry. A book will accompany me to bed, or the lounge chair; I can read it on a bus or train. As well as being often a beautiful object in itself. Oh, and did I mention my eyes don't like the computer screen? Anything longer than a page, I print out to read. D di P > From: AG Jorgensen > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 00:37:46 -0700 > To: > Subject: Online journals vs. Print > > I know that the final answer is not one of either this > or that, but have witnessed some writers prefer this > over that. Too, there are those readers who are of the > same pattern of choice. Lots of useful responses have > been given in the past related to both and I'm hoping > that this question might further illuminate the issue > for me. > > Much of my work, and I've only submitted for about two > years, has thusfar appeared in print, but then > sometime there's this feeling that online is where it > is at - sorta like MTV, one wonders, was a while ago - > and both print and online, as you know, seem to be in > competition. A tap dancer is how I often feel. > > AJ > > --- > Good art however "immoral" is wholly a thing of virtue. Good art can NOT be > immoral. By good art I mean art that bears true witness, I mean the art that > is most precise. -- Ezra Pound > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 11:03:19 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Diane DiPrima Subject: Re: Online journals vs. Print In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Interesting. I on the other hand, never submit anything electronically. I don't trust the thing to arrive as I wrote it: line breaks, spacing, etc. tend to get changed in the process of getting from here to there. If there's a mag that really wants online submission, I back it up with hard copy & ask them to check what they get online against what it looks like on the actual page(s) I'm mailing. Just a product of my time, I guess. Diane > From: Jason Quackenbush > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 10:12:04 -0700 > To: > Subject: Re: Online journals vs. Print > > I personally never send things to any journal that requires hardcopy > submissions sent through the mail. it's dumb and takes too much time. that > makes more of a difference to me than whether the rag is published > electronically or in paper. I just hate printing out copies of poems, sticking > them in envelopes, writing out my address on the SASE, putting it in the > mailbox, all of that shit. it sucks and i refuse to do it. luckily there are > some very cool places like Fence and blazeVOX that take online submissions, > and that means that they get a better shot at my poetry. which is good for > them, because i'm great. > > On Fri, 4 Aug 2006, AG Jorgensen wrote: > >> I know that the final answer is not one of either this >> or that, but have witnessed some writers prefer this >> over that. Too, there are those readers who are of the >> same pattern of choice. Lots of useful responses have >> been given in the past related to both and I'm hoping >> that this question might further illuminate the issue >> for me. >> >> Much of my work, and I've only submitted for about two >> years, has thusfar appeared in print, but then >> sometime there's this feeling that online is where it >> is at - sorta like MTV, one wonders, was a while ago - >> and both print and online, as you know, seem to be in >> competition. A tap dancer is how I often feel. >> >> AJ >> >> --- >> Good art however "immoral" is wholly a thing of virtue. Good art can NOT be >> immoral. By good art I mean art that bears true witness, I mean the art that >> is most precise. -- Ezra Pound >> >> __________________________________________________ >> Do You Yahoo!? >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >> http://mail.yahoo.com >> ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 11:58:17 -0700 Reply-To: Michael Tod Edgerton Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Tod Edgerton Subject: Re: Online journals vs. Print In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii No, I don't think it's generational; at 34 I'm just as concerned about form. I absolutely do not submit to mags that refuse to accept attachments, but only accept work pasted into the body of an email (!) -- a recipe for sure disaster. In fact, I think it's careless disregard for the work that allows such narrow guidelines for email submissions. Spacing and breaks are as much a part of the poem as the words themselves for me; not all poets/editors seem to fully understand the importance of spacing to a poem. For me, every tab, every margin, every touch of the enter key or space bar is the growth of bone. I don't trust chiropractors or rolfers. Tod Michael Tod Edgerton Poet-in-Residence, Spring 2006 Stonehill College __________________ Peter Kaplan Memorial Fellow, 2004 - 2006 Program in Literary Arts Brown University "There's the mute probability of a reciprocal lack of understanding" - Mei-mei Berssenbrugge ----- Original Message ---- From: Diane DiPrima To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Friday, August 4, 2006 2:03:19 PM Subject: Re: Online journals vs. Print Interesting. I on the other hand, never submit anything electronically. I don't trust the thing to arrive as I wrote it: line breaks, spacing, etc. tend to get changed in the process of getting from here to there. If there's a mag that really wants online submission, I back it up with hard copy & ask them to check what they get online against what it looks like on the actual page(s) I'm mailing. Just a product of my time, I guess. Diane > From: Jason Quackenbush > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 10:12:04 -0700 > To: > Subject: Re: Online journals vs. Print > > I personally never send things to any journal that requires hardcopy > submissions sent through the mail. it's dumb and takes too much time. that > makes more of a difference to me than whether the rag is published > electronically or in paper. I just hate printing out copies of poems, sticking > them in envelopes, writing out my address on the SASE, putting it in the > mailbox, all of that shit. it sucks and i refuse to do it. luckily there are > some very cool places like Fence and blazeVOX that take online submissions, > and that means that they get a better shot at my poetry. which is good for > them, because i'm great. > > On Fri, 4 Aug 2006, AG Jorgensen wrote: > >> I know that the final answer is not one of either this >> or that, but have witnessed some writers prefer this >> over that. Too, there are those readers who are of the >> same pattern of choice. Lots of useful responses have >> been given in the past related to both and I'm hoping >> that this question might further illuminate the issue >> for me. >> >> Much of my work, and I've only submitted for about two >> years, has thusfar appeared in print, but then >> sometime there's this feeling that online is where it >> is at - sorta like MTV, one wonders, was a while ago - >> and both print and online, as you know, seem to be in >> competition. A tap dancer is how I often feel. >> >> AJ >> >> --- >> Good art however "immoral" is wholly a thing of virtue. Good art can NOT be >> immoral. By good art I mean art that bears true witness, I mean the art that >> is most precise. -- Ezra Pound >> >> __________________________________________________ >> Do You Yahoo!? >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >> http://mail.yahoo.com >> ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 15:13:10 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AMBogle2@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Online journals vs. Print MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For me, the line for "ancient history" is 1990. In my family ancient history is last week, and we are always in at least a minor feud over it. To them, it is ancient history that I went for a job interview to scrub floors in the suburbs last week; my earned degrees, especially the one from '94, are part of ancient history, etc. In publishing, submissions went from single- to multi- some time in the early 90s or late 80s; '92 seems another useful line for measuring time in internet art space. I still try to practice single submissions, which is a throwback to pre-1990 ancient history, and I expect a return if I send an SASE, which is to have ancient expectations. In 1996, I went online. I saw that many very talented E people had been there before me, laying tracks, designing sites, building roads. I saw that some of the literary sites had the capacity to archive their back issues. All of this had great appeal, even though I'm not particularly electronic -- I am more text-based and not otherwise very graphic. Like some of the people have mentioned here, I like holding a beautifully designed bound book and reading it from my purse or in bed. My computer is an "ancient" (though post-1990) model, and it sits frumpily on my desk and is immovable and personal. It has limited remaining capacities. I go to the internet to read quickly for information, and I like it for reading short poems and short stories and essays. Anything longer, I would like to have it in book form, unless it is in fact art belonging to the internet. But, often, I don't like to read longer things, anyway. My first published short story was in The Quarterly in 1988. That was a pulp paperback with a shiny cover that had a wider circulation than was usual for literary journals, and it was also literary. I used my usual method for getting in: one story to one editor at one time via US mail with SASE. Gordon Lish responded a week later with an acceptance. The stories (eventually I had three there) came out about a year after acceptance. He was considered to be very efficient by the standards of that business. Now I wait to be solicited. It happens, but rarely. If anyone writes or calls with a request for something I wrote, I am sure to get something to them. With this post-ancient-history method my "waiting" feels more patient -- I am not waiting to hear back. Using the old method, I currently have submissions out to five publications -- and it's taking forever. I have written queries and reminders. They are holding these publications sometimes for five years! The old method has become lugubrious. AMB ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 12:47:36 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: Online journals vs. Print In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed I try to send things as RTF attachments as much as possible since that's very good at preserving those kinds of things, and have the added benefit that they can't carry viruses and worms like DOC's, and allow some control over tabs and spacing if you use a fixed width font, and they are pretty much fool proof at preserving line breaks. I agree with the other poster, though, that I'm highly skeptical of any place that wants you to paste your submission into the body of an email. I hate mailing things though. It takes so long. It's so formal. It requires paper and then, if you have the wrong address, it might be a week before you find out your submission never got anywhere. I gave up trying to do it a couple of years ago after my third hard copy submission to Arsenic Lobster got RTS'd from whoever it was that was the editor in the most recent version of writer's market but who evidently wasn't the editor anymore, and this after the first was lost and the second was RTS'd from the person listed as the editor on the website. It was wholly irritating and i decided then and there that any magazine that didn't have the wherewithal to get it together enough to take electronic submissions a.) wasn't worth my time to submit to and b.) wasn't going to get any money from me either. Which is to say, if print journals insist on paper submissions, I don't read them either. On Fri, 4 Aug 2006, Diane DiPrima wrote: > Interesting. I on the other hand, never submit anything electronically. I > don't trust the thing to arrive as I wrote it: line breaks, spacing, etc. > tend to get changed in the process of getting from here to there. If there's > a mag that really wants online submission, I back it up with hard copy & ask > them to check what they get online against what it looks like on the actual > page(s) I'm mailing. > > Just a product of my time, I guess. Diane > > >> From: Jason Quackenbush >> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >> Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 10:12:04 -0700 >> To: >> Subject: Re: Online journals vs. Print >> >> I personally never send things to any journal that requires hardcopy >> submissions sent through the mail. it's dumb and takes too much time. that >> makes more of a difference to me than whether the rag is published >> electronically or in paper. I just hate printing out copies of poems, sticking >> them in envelopes, writing out my address on the SASE, putting it in the >> mailbox, all of that shit. it sucks and i refuse to do it. luckily there are >> some very cool places like Fence and blazeVOX that take online submissions, >> and that means that they get a better shot at my poetry. which is good for >> them, because i'm great. >> >> On Fri, 4 Aug 2006, AG Jorgensen wrote: >> >>> I know that the final answer is not one of either this >>> or that, but have witnessed some writers prefer this >>> over that. Too, there are those readers who are of the >>> same pattern of choice. Lots of useful responses have >>> been given in the past related to both and I'm hoping >>> that this question might further illuminate the issue >>> for me. >>> >>> Much of my work, and I've only submitted for about two >>> years, has thusfar appeared in print, but then >>> sometime there's this feeling that online is where it >>> is at - sorta like MTV, one wonders, was a while ago - >>> and both print and online, as you know, seem to be in >>> competition. A tap dancer is how I often feel. >>> >>> AJ >>> >>> --- >>> Good art however "immoral" is wholly a thing of virtue. Good art can NOT be >>> immoral. By good art I mean art that bears true witness, I mean the art that >>> is most precise. -- Ezra Pound >>> >>> __________________________________________________ >>> Do You Yahoo!? >>> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >>> http://mail.yahoo.com >>> > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 23:00:55 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: The Diamond That Cuts Through Illusion In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline mysticism of a yin soul while the title bears a strong yang predisposition yang to destroy the negative side of yin (illusion) by freeing its essence _a couple of words to show I appreciated the writing by Thich Nhat Hanh. On 8/4/06, Maria Damon wrote: > > fwded from a student of Thich Nhat Hanh > > > Subject: The Diamond That Cuts Through Illusion > >Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2006 11:23:08 -0400 > >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Aug 2006 15:23:13.0393 (UTC) > >FILETIME=[BC58BE10:01C6B710] > > > >...non-duality is the essential characteristic of love. In love, > >the person who loves and the person being loved are not two. Love > >has an organic characteristic. In light of interbeing, all problems > >of the world and of humankind should be solved according to the > >principles of organic love and non-dual understanding. These > >principles can be applied to solve the problems of the Middle > >East... the suffering of one side is also the suffering of the other > >side. The mistakes of one side are also the mistakes of the other > >side. When one side is angry the other side suffers and vice versa. > >These principles can also be applied to solve environmental > >problems, such as the greenhouse effect and the depletion of the > >ozone layer. Rivers, oceans, forests, mountains, earth, and rocks > >are all our body. To protect the living environment is also to > >protect ourselves, This is the organic, non-dualistic nature of the > >Buddhist way of looking at conflicts, the the environment, and love. > > > > Thich Nhat Hanh > > from "The Diamond That Cuts Through Illusion" (p. > 102) > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 16:39:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: Online journals vs. Print In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the 'online journals vs print' binary is less relevant to my work. i do publish things in print occassionally, but mostly my pubs are digital. sometimes in online journals, sometimes in other forms. sometimes in gallery installations. sometimes at turbulence.org which i guess you could call an online journal but it's a net art site. i appreciate online literary journals that also publish literary net art. i do think of what i do mainly as writing. i also publish more or less all my work on my own site. datsa my boook. and, looking at my web logs, i find that most of the visitors come from google, stumbleupon, and other 'unlikely' places. really a very unlikely place that has posted a link to my piece arteroids yesterday is a site named i-am-bored.com . i noticed this site this morning in my web logs because there are about 4000 hits since they linked to arteroids yesterday. and all sorts of comments from, um, mostly bored teenagers i guess, such as "Wha??????????????????????????????????" and "...Just back...away...slowly..." and "ok.....this....is..weird........maby..,if..,we..,stand,perfectly....still.. ..it'll...,pass...........right passed us". lots of kids in the 13-17 year-old range. the audience for poetry is very broad and odd. in print. online. offline in galleries. holzer-fashion on marquees and other signage. poetry is expanding big bangish. ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2006 00:45:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lucas Klein Subject: nastiness MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I didn't mean to be nasty; I did mean to help. And thank you, Steve, for coming out in support. I'm not particularly happy that Paul Catafago, or anyone, has left the poetics group. I would be pleased, though, if nastiness and belligerence and bullying left the poetics group. As poets and readers and political beings, we have much more to gain by staying united, amidst our disagreements, than we do by infighting and personal attacks. When I'm not paying attention, I'm a particularly impatient and mean kind of person. So even as I try to pay attention, I can also tell that I'm especially sensitive to the emergence of flaws in others that I also see in myself. The difficulty is to remain virtuous when calling for others to be virtuous as well. Lucas ________________________________________ "There are two ways of knowing, under standing and over bearing. The first is called wisdom. The second is called winning arguments." -Kenneth Rexroth Lucas Klein LKlein@cipherjournal.com 216 Willow Street New Haven, CT 06511 ph: 203 676 0629 www.CipherJournal.com www.CipherJournal.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 23:03:06 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: nastiness MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Lucas, There is no virtue in criticism. =20 However, why should there be? Isn't a critic really just a person with a different point of view who = had the temerity to express that difference? =20 Mind you, this doesn't make the critic any more or less right, honorable = or sanctimonious than the creator whom he or she has criticized. =20 In the simple truths of life, the fact is the critic may be the one in = error...unfortunately, after a criticism has been levied, facts too = often get mired in the alignment of taking sides. And when that = happens, the numbers usually win. The person with the most = friends/associates triumphs, even if that point of view is in error.=20 When that happens, the facts get muddled, the details disappear amidst = the pro and con comments, and for the most part, nothing gets resolved. = Neither you nor Paul have settled anything. =20 Alex=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Lucas Klein=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 9:45 PM Subject: nastiness I didn't mean to be nasty; I did mean to help. =20 And thank you, Steve, for coming out in support. =20 I'm not particularly happy that Paul Catafago, or anyone, has left the poetics group. I would be pleased, though, if nastiness and = belligerence and bullying left the poetics group. As poets and readers and political = beings, we have much more to gain by staying united, amidst our disagreements, = than we do by infighting and personal attacks. =20 When I'm not paying attention, I'm a particularly impatient and mean = kind of person. So even as I try to pay attention, I can also tell that I'm especially sensitive to the emergence of flaws in others that I also = see in myself. =20 The difficulty is to remain virtuous when calling for others to be = virtuous as well. =20 Lucas =20 ________________________________________ "There are two ways of knowing, under standing and over bearing. The first is called wisdom. The second is called winning arguments." -Kenneth Rexroth Lucas Klein > = LKlein@cipherjournal.com 216 Willow Street New Haven, CT 06511 ph: 203 676 0629 > = www.CipherJournal.com = > = www.CipherJournal.blogspot.com =20 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2006 09:38:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Reality Street's summer 2006 sale Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is a great deal -- and I would recommend all the books. --------- Reality Street's summer 2006 sale Any four of the following books for =A310 sterling (all 13 for =A330). Cris Cheek & Sianed Jones: SONGS FROM NAVIGATION Kelvin Corcoran: LYRIC LYRIC Ken Edwards: FUTURES Allen Fisher: DISPOSSESSION AND CURE Susan Gevirtz: TAKEN PLACE Anselm Hollo (ed. & tr.): FIVE FROM FINLAND Barbara Guest: IF SO, TELL ME Tony Lopez: DATA SHADOW Lisa Robertson: THE WEATHER Lisa Robertson: DEBBIE: AN EPIC Maurice Scully: STEPS Robert Sheppard : THE LORES Lawrence Upton : WIRE SCULPTURES Please email your order to info@realitystreet.co.uk and we will send you a secure credit card payment request. Price includes postage & packing in the UK/Europe; for airmailing elsewhere, add =A35 to your order. Ken Edwards Reality Street Editions 63 All Saints Street Hastings, East Sussex TN34 3BN www.realitystreet.co.uk=20 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2006 10:40:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: Online journals vs. Print MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit that's a good idea i've had stuff printed hard copy that i sent online and it's come out all wrong some online journals ask you to check when they put it up i've also had stuff accepted thru attachment as well as paste up whee the lines have gone awry ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2006 11:07:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: nastiness MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i was thinking too of leaving group but because it helps me get published etc i stick it out paul back channeled me a very nasty threatening e mail when he thought almost paranoid that i was against him his family and lebanon almost severe anti-steve as well as anti-semetic i felt whaen what i dis in my own stubborn and stupid way was to tell folks we cannot take sides innocents get killed ohn both ends both ends are wrong hezzbollah shoots 100's of rockets per day they don't kill less civilians because they don't try to ( my idea anyway) but because they have fasr less superior equipment they're both wrong and innocents on both sides suffer as does the world at large as joe and others said hostory is omportant but history hasn't over all taught the war mongers much tho of course it's taught them something otherwise after ww2 we'd all be blown to hell by now this is a crazy jihad we kill the father only to become i don't think even paul tho as i pointed out to afriend who is leaning more toward hezbollah's side wants to see a muslim fundamentalist dominated worlsd or middle east it's very difficult muslims and christians as far as history goes should never forget what the root religion they came from is and respect that and work out a solution not based on hate politics or greed but on humanity respect and likeness not differences but of course this is a fantasy of mine a talmudic question of what is the sound of 2 dogs barking / hey did you guys hear that eiger mt is collapsing? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2006 11:27:05 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tisa Bryant Subject: Paging Tracy Grinnell Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Tracy, if you're here, or if someone has her email, please backchannel! Thanks! Tisa _______________________________________________ My concern is never art, but always what art can be used for. Gerhard Richter ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2006 11:32:54 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: the latest from al jazeera: WHAT THE FUCK DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH POETICS? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (JG.,(B (JI think the nastiness in this case was started by Paul's reaction to Adeena's (B (Jpost. Adeena's post had as much to do about poetics as many other comments (B (Jhere.(B (JMurat(B (JIn a message dated 08/04/06 3:53:49 AM, bowering@SFU.CA writes:(B (J> Lucas,(B (J> (B (J> That kind of nasty talk doesnt help.(B (J> Come on.(B (J> (B (J> g(B (J> (B (J> (B (J> On 3-Aug-06, at 10:22 PM, Lucas Klein wrote:(B (J> (B (J> > Dear Paul Catafago:(B (J> >(B (J> >(B (J> >(B (J> > What (the fuck) do you have to do with poetics?(B (J> >(B (J> >(B (J> >(B (J> > I think of all people you (should) understand the link between poetics(B (J> > and politics, and yet your question, shouted and yet so obviously(B (J> > inane, belies your real intent: to be belligerent, to be a bully, to(B (J> > be abusive.(B (J> >(B (J> >(B (J> >(B (J> > I can tell from what you write and what you do, Paul, that you believe(B (J> > yourself to be someone who stands up for the downtrodden. But as(B (J> > someone who also tries to stand up for the downtrodden, I want to tell(B (J> > you that you cannot stand up for the downtrodden if you in turn tread(B (J> > other people down with aggression and insults. I will go further,(B (J> > Paul: your behavior embarrasses me, because so often I want to agree(B (J> > with what you say, and yet I am alienated and offended by how you say(B (J> > it.(B (J> >(B (J> >(B (J> >(B (J> > Let me be clear: I am calling you out in a public forum. I am tired of(B (J> > the way that you abuse people, whether you know them or don$B!G(Jt, both in(B (J> > public and in private correspondence, and so I am calling you out. I(B (J> > call on you to find a better, more responsible way to communicate with(B (J> > people, express your views, and demonstrate that the best way of(B (J> > standing up for the downtrodden is to help them to true strength,(B (J> > instead of covering up your own weakness with aggressive posturing and(B (J> > abuse.(B (J> >(B (J> >(B (J> >(B (J> > As Wafa Sultan said: you can believe in stones, until you start(B (J> > throwing them at me.(B (J> >(B (J> >(B (J> >(B (J> > Lucas(B (J> >(B (J> >(B (J> >(B (J> >(B (J> >(B (J> >(B (J> >(B (J> > Paul Catafago wrote:(B (J> >(B (J> > I AM SICK AND TIRED OF HAVING TO RESPOND TO PROPOGANDISTS LIKE ADEEENA(B (J> > KARASICK. IT IS A TYPICAL TACTIC OF ANY OPPRESSOR TO USE SOMEONE FROM(B (J> > THE OPPRESSED COMMUNITY TO LEGITIMIZE THEIR PROJECT.(B (J> >(B (J> > SO HAVING AN ARAB PYCHOLOGIST SAY THAT ARABS, MUSLIMS ARE AT FAULT(B (J> > (TOTALLY EXONERATING GUILTY PARTIES SUCH AS BUSH, ISRAEL, ETC.) IS(B (J> > BRILLIANT!(B (J> >(B (J> > AND PERSONALLY IN A TIME WHEN INNOCENT LEBANESE ARE BEING DAILY(B (J> > SLAUGHTERED BY ISRAEL, I FIND THIS POST DISGUSTING.(B (J> >(B (J> > IN TERMS OF AL JEEZERA- I THINK THE FACT THEY AIRED THE INTERVIEW(B (J> > PROVES THEY ARE NOT A TOOL OF AL-QAIDA AS THE STATE DEPARTMENT HAS(B (J> > ASSERTED- BUT RATHER A LEGITIMATE NEWS SERVICE AIRING OPINIONS THAT(B (J> > RUN THE SPECTRUM.(B (J> >(B (J> > BUT AGAIN, WHAT THE FUCK DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH POETICS?(B (J> >(B (J> >(B (J> >(B (J> > Adeena Karasick wrote:(B (J> >(B (J> > The attached video will take about five minutes to watch. Note the(B (J> > attitude of the moderator... I wonder how long she will remain alive(B (J> > after this$(D+$$B".$(D+$$B".$(D+$$B".$(D+$$B".(B (J> >(B (J> > This was shown on Al Jazeera television, The woman is Wafa Sultan, an(B (J> > Arab-American psychologist from LA.(B (J> >(B (J> > Given her "heretical' stance, i don't know how long the link will be(B (J> > active.(B (J> >(B (J> > Make sure to double click on the video to enlarge the picture so as to(B (J> > beable to read the English translation.(B (J> >(B (J> > http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ai=214(B (J> > (B (J> > &ar=1050wmv&ak=null(B (J> >(B (J> >(B (J> >(B (J> >(B (J> >(B (J> > ________________________________________(B (J> > "There are two ways of knowing, under standing(B (J> > and over bearing. The first is called wisdom. The(B (J> > second is called winning arguments."(B (J> > Kenneth Rexroth(B (J> >(B (J> > Lucas Klein(B (J> >(B (J> > LKlein@cipherjournal.com(B (J> > 216 Willow Street(B (J> > New Haven, CT 06511(B (J> > ph: 203 676 0629(B (J> >(B (J> > www.CipherJournal.com(B (J> > www.CipherJournal.blogspot.com(B (J> >(B (J> >(B (J> >(B (J> >(B (J> George Bowering, OBC(B (J> Spells better than most.(B (J> (B ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2006 10:41:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: the latest from al jazeera: WHAT THE FUCK DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH POETICS? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed sadly nastiness began on this list very long ago and recurs cyclically--one can almost predict when it is about to recur-- to paraphrase pavese, it is tiring-- >From: Murat Nemet-Nejat >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: the latest from al jazeera: WHAT THE FUCK DOES THIS HAVE TO DO >WITH POETICS? >Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2006 11:32:54 EDT > >G., > >I think the nastiness in this case was started by Paul's reaction to >Adeena's >post. Adeena's post had as much to do about poetics as many other comments >here. > >Murat > > >In a message dated 08/04/06 3:53:49 AM, bowering@SFU.CA writes: > > > > Lucas, > > > > That kind of nasty talk doesnt help. > > Come on. > > > > g > > > > > > On 3-Aug-06, at 10:22 PM, Lucas Klein wrote: > > > > > Dear Paul Catafago: > > > > > > > > > > > > What (the fuck) do you have to do with poetics? > > > > > > > > > > > > I think of all people you (should) understand the link between poetics > > > and politics, and yet your question, shouted and yet so obviously > > > inane, belies your real intent: to be belligerent, to be a bully, to > > > be abusive. > > > > > > > > > > > > I can tell from what you write and what you do, Paul, that you believe > > > yourself to be someone who stands up for the downtrodden. But as > > > someone who also tries to stand up for the downtrodden, I want to tell > > > you that you cannot stand up for the downtrodden if you in turn tread > > > other people down with aggression and insults. I will go further, > > > Paul: your behavior embarrasses me, because so often I want to agree > > > with what you say, and yet I am alienated and offended by how you say > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me be clear: I am calling you out in a public forum. I am tired of > > > the way that you abuse people, whether you know them or donft, both >in > > > public and in private correspondence, and so I am calling you out. I > > > call on you to find a better, more responsible way to communicate with > > > people, express your views, and demonstrate that the best way of > > > standing up for the downtrodden is to help them to true strength, > > > instead of covering up your own weakness with aggressive posturing and > > > abuse. > > > > > > > > > > > > As Wafa Sultan said: you can believe in stones, until you start > > > throwing them at me. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lucas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Paul Catafago wrote: > > > > > > I AM SICK AND TIRED OF HAVING TO RESPOND TO PROPOGANDISTS LIKE ADEEENA > > > KARASICK. IT IS A TYPICAL TACTIC OF ANY OPPRESSOR TO USE SOMEONE FROM > > > THE OPPRESSED COMMUNITY TO LEGITIMIZE THEIR PROJECT. > > > > > > SO HAVING AN ARAB PYCHOLOGIST SAY THAT ARABS, MUSLIMS ARE AT FAULT > > > (TOTALLY EXONERATING GUILTY PARTIES SUCH AS BUSH, ISRAEL, ETC.) IS > > > BRILLIANT! > > > > > > AND PERSONALLY IN A TIME WHEN INNOCENT LEBANESE ARE BEING DAILY > > > SLAUGHTERED BY ISRAEL, I FIND THIS POST DISGUSTING. > > > > > > IN TERMS OF AL JEEZERA- I THINK THE FACT THEY AIRED THE INTERVIEW > > > PROVES THEY ARE NOT A TOOL OF AL-QAIDA AS THE STATE DEPARTMENT HAS > > > ASSERTED- BUT RATHER A LEGITIMATE NEWS SERVICE AIRING OPINIONS THAT > > > RUN THE SPECTRUM. > > > > > > BUT AGAIN, WHAT THE FUCK DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH POETICS? > > > > > > > > > > > > Adeena Karasick wrote: > > > > > > The attached video will take about five minutes to watch. Note the > > > attitude of the moderator... I wonder how long she will remain alive > > > after this$(D+$¬‚¦’©¬‚¦’©¬‚¦’©¬ > > > > > > This was shown on Al Jazeera television, The woman is Wafa Sultan, an > > > Arab-American psychologist from LA. > > > > > > Given her "heretical' stance, i don't know how long the link will be > > > active. > > > > > > Make sure to double click on the video to enlarge the picture so as to > > > beable to read the English translation. > > > > > > http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ai=214 > > > > > > &ar=1050wmv&ak=null > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________ > > > "There are two ways of knowing, under standing > > > and over bearing. The first is called wisdom. The > > > second is called winning arguments." > > > Kenneth Rexroth > > > > > > Lucas Klein > > > > > > LKlein@cipherjournal.com > > > 216 Willow Street > > > New Haven, CT 06511 > > > ph: 203 676 0629 > > > > > > www.CipherJournal.com > > > www.CipherJournal.blogspot.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > George Bowering, OBC > > Spells better than most. > > _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2006 12:07:05 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Online journals vs. Print MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 08/04/06 2:04:06 PM, aryanil@KAURAB.COM writes: > 1. A printed magazine issue can never be changed for good or bad. An online > mag issue could be continuously renewed, if you wish. I could present you > some very practical situations here. Let's say, you did a special online > issue on contemporary Turkish poetry today. Three years later down the road > you come across a very important poet whom you missed out during your maiden > voyage. You could post-process history, add him to that archived issue. You > can fix your past. Don't need to be Harry Potter. > It is very interesting you use the contemporary Turkish poetry as an example. In "Eda: an Anthology of Contemporary Turkish Poetry," published in 2004, I included an essay, called "A Godless Sufism: Ideas on the Rwentieth Century Turkish Poetry." This essay was written in around 1995 and discusses how the poets of that time confronted the problem that Istanbul had grown from a city of one million (in the 1950's) to a city of twelve million. The previous poetic movement in Turkish poetry, "The Second New," was built around the psychic geography of the one million city. Poets who were writing in the style of The Second New were writing about a place which did not exist. More than one third of the poetry in Eda is written in the 1990's. These fantastic poems have some common characteristics which I call "the poetry of motion," a startling development which reflects Istanbul as a more than twelve million global city. None of the poets in question was referred to in my "godless sufism essay"; I did not know them at the time they were writing and publishing their new work in Turkey. When I decided to include the essay in the Eda anthology, I decided to change nothing in it, Both my ignorance of them at the moment and the kind of questions I raise, which the poetry of motion answers, is part of the historical record. I avoid to rewrite history. Ciao, Murat ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2006 11:44:07 -0500 Reply-To: pamelabeth@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pam Grossman Subject: denver? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i will be in the area from august 10th to the 15th. i've never been before. in this intense, emotionally crowded nyc summer, with will-zapping heatwaves and heartbreaking international news, i've been feeling a bit like "this is it"--this weather and this warfare is all there ever will be. but in actuality, the most recent heatwave has broken, and i am scheduled to board a plane to denver for a family event. so--anyone there have any events, etc., they'd like to recommend? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2006 16:20:31 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aryanil Mukherjee Subject: Re: Online journals vs. Print MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit sounds like my hypothetical example turned out to be much telepathic. well, I didn't suggest rewriting history, but post-process it to fix obvious unforced errors, fill in gaps that we left behind unknowingly and thus keep the past wobbling all the time, which gives us a sense that IT IS THERE, ALIVE, but in the end, IT IS PAST. I'm genuinely interested in contemporary Turkish poetry and your article. Maybe we could discuss it offline. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Murat Nemet-Nejat" To: Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 12:07 PM Subject: Re: Online journals vs. Print > In a message dated 08/04/06 2:04:06 PM, aryanil@KAURAB.COM writes: > > >> 1. A printed magazine issue can never be changed for good or bad. An >> online >> mag issue could be continuously renewed, if you wish. I could present you >> some very practical situations here. Let's say, you did a special online >> issue on contemporary Turkish poetry today. Three years later down the >> road >> you come across a very important poet whom you missed out during your >> maiden >> voyage. You could post-process history, add him to that archived issue. >> You >> can fix your past. Don't need to be Harry Potter. >> > > It is very interesting you use the contemporary Turkish poetry as an > example. > In "Eda: an Anthology of Contemporary Turkish Poetry," published in 2004, > I > included an essay, called "A Godless Sufism: Ideas on the Rwentieth > Century > Turkish Poetry." This essay was written in around 1995 and discusses how > the > poets of that time confronted the problem that Istanbul had grown from a > city of > one million (in the 1950's) to a city of twelve million. The previous > poetic > movement in Turkish poetry, "The Second New," was built around the psychic > geography of the one million city. Poets who were writing in the style of > The > Second New were writing about a place which did not exist. > > More than one third of the poetry in Eda is written in the 1990's. These > fantastic poems have some common characteristics which I call "the poetry > of > motion," a startling development which reflects Istanbul as a more than > twelve > million global city. None of the poets in question was referred to in my > "godless > sufism essay"; I did not know them at the time they were writing and > publishing their new work in Turkey. > > When I decided to include the essay in the Eda anthology, I decided to > change > nothing in it, Both my ignorance of them at the moment and the kind of > questions I raise, which the poetry of motion answers, is part of the > historical > record. > > I avoid to rewrite history. > > Ciao, > > Murat > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/409 - Release Date: 8/4/2006 > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2006 02:23:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: I need some good criticism on this MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit needs work ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2006 05:57:03 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Larissa Shmailo Subject: Roland Barthes Comments: cc: findjessie@hotmail.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I'm seeking help from Barthes scholars or archivists on the list to try to obtain a copy of a letter I received from him in the late 70's - 80's. I loved the Mythologies, but when Plaisir du Texte came out, I wrote him a gin-soaked letter explaining that he was now frivolous and bourgeois. I received a reply, reconstructed partially here; my French is rusty, so any errors are mine, obviously, and not Barthes's; "Je ne connais pas assez d'anglais [to determine] le degre de votre agressivite [missing text] A ce que je sais de moi, j'ecris pour etre aime de loin; en votre cas, c'est rate. N'importe Roland Barthes I kept meaning to write back and recant; rereading the work, I wanted to tell him how much I admired it and all the body of his work. Of course, he got hit by a laundry truck before I ever got around to doing it. I no longer have this letter but would dearly love a copy. Would anyone know where and how to begin a search for a copy of it, if it exists? Thanks, Larissa Shmailo http://larissashmailo.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2006 09:39:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lucas Klein Subject: Re: Nastiness MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Alex: You wrote: > Lucas, > There is no virtue in criticism. I'm afraid I just can't see how that's true. Lucas ________________________________________ "There are two ways of knowing, under standing and over bearing. The first is called wisdom. The second is called winning arguments." -Kenneth Rexroth Lucas Klein LKlein@cipherjournal.com 216 Willow Street New Haven, CT 06511 ph: 203 676 0629 www.CipherJournal.com www.CipherJournal.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2006 03:52:27 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabrielle Welford Subject: Re: Online journals vs. Print In-Reply-To: <20060805.105158.-189981.6.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT aye, but i've had stuff come out wrong in print journals too, even with galleys. gabe On Sat, 5 Aug 2006, Steve Dalachinsky wrote: > that's a good idea i've had stuff printed hard copy that i sent online > and it's come out all wrong > some online journals > ask you to check when they put it up > > i've also had stuff accepted thru attachment as well as paste up > whee the lines have gone awry > gabrielle welford welford@hawaii.edu Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.595 / Virus Database: 378 - Release Date: 2/25/2004 wilhelm reich anarcho-syndicalism gut/heart/head/earth ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2006 10:17:31 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: Nastiness Comments: To: Lucas Klein In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT >Alex wrote: > > There is no virtue in criticism.< What! Not even in your own criticism of Lucas!? Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2006 08:28:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: Nastiness MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Nope...not even there. =20 I'm too cynical and opinionated to have retained any virtuous qualities, = if I ever really had any.=20 Alex ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Marcus Bales=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 7:17 AM Subject: Re: Nastiness >Alex wrote: > > There is no virtue in criticism.< What! Not even in your own criticism of Lucas!?=20 Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2006 09:11:17 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jerome Rothenberg Subject: Fw: Announcing: New Whalen Book MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Coyote's Journal" Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 5:41 AM Subject: Announcing: New Whalen Book > The Unidentified Accomplice, > or, > The Transmissions of C W Moss > http://www.coyotesjournal.com/CB_Titles/CWMoss.html > > Philip Whalen hand-wrote this book of "natural speech" in 1968 after > having gone with Jim and Cass Koller to see the movie "Bonnie and > Clyde." > > Spread the word! > > Maggie Brown and Jim Koller > Coyote > http:www.coyotesjournal.com > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2006 12:06:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: Online journals vs. Print MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit true me too always ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2006 13:13:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: Nastiness Comments: To: alexander saliby In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT That sort of puts you in the position of an embezzler criticizing another guy for stealing from the company, then, doesn't it? M On 6 Aug 2006 at 8:28, alexander saliby wrote: > Nope...not even there. > > I'm too cynical and opinionated to have retained any virtuous > qualities, if I ever really had any. > Alex > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Marcus Bales > To: > POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 7:17 AM > Subject: Re: Nastiness > > > >Alex wrote: > > > There is no virtue in criticism.< > > What! Not even in your own criticism of Lucas!? > > Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2006 10:35:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Killian Subject: new email addresses for Bellamy and Killian Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Hi Folks, Dodie Bellamy and I have new email addresses: Dodie Bellamy Kevin Killian Thanks. Kevin ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2006 10:57:09 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: Nastiness MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable M Only if one is a narrow, 'black & white' thinker...e.g. there is only = that which is good (virtuous) and that which is evil (lacking in = virtue), and the good and the evil are set by their personal definitions = of the terms.=20 Others may hold to a slightly broader view, open to the realm of = possibilities which include even the remote possibility that they = themselves may be wrong (virtue-less) in any given circumstance.=20 Nor does being open to the possibility of lacking in virtue lead to the = illogical conclusion, as you suggest, that one is a felon. The = difference of course being in doing that which is illegal as contrasted = from doing that which is wrong. Though I also concede there are some = who find all acts of wrong to be illegal; I know a few such folks who = attend a local church I avoid. =20 Virtue: The quality or act of doing that which is right and avoiding = that which is wrong. "She lives a life of virtue, avoiding all sins of = the flesh."=20 Criticism: Disapproval expressed by pointing out what is wrong with the = work or thoughts of another. =20 Perhaps, and of course, this is merely a virtue-less opinion, Lucas = fails to see the virtue in Paul's screaming simply because Lucas has = already closed his mind to the possibility of truths inherent in the = thoughts of others. A=20 =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Marcus Bales=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 10:13 AM Subject: Re: Nastiness That sort of puts you in the position of an embezzler criticizing=20 another guy for stealing from the company, then, doesn't it? M On 6 Aug 2006 at 8:28, alexander saliby wrote: > Nope...not even there. =20 >=20 > I'm too cynical and opinionated to have retained any virtuous > qualities, if I ever really had any.=20 > Alex > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: Marcus = Bales>=20 > To: > = POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU>=20 > Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 7:17 AM > Subject: Re: Nastiness >=20 >=20 > >Alex wrote: > > > There is no virtue in criticism.< >=20 > What! Not even in your own criticism of Lucas!?=20 >=20 > Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2006 11:00:17 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AG Jorgensen Subject: Re: Online journals vs. Print In-Reply-To: <20060804151923.92742.qmail@web31109.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Just a whopping thanks to all. Wonderful, wonderful responses. This kind of information certainly helps to give me a better perspective on submitting work. Too, I hope it might help others. Best, AGJ --- Thomas savage wrote: > I've been submitting almost totally to online > journals for the past year and a half and find it > much less troublesome than sending to print journals > through the mail. Generally the wait, both for > decision and publication, is much less with online > zines. This is the main seductive factor behind my > switch, after thirt years of publishing in print > journals. Still, as some of the print journals I > submitted to over two years ago have recently, at > long last, found their way into my mailbox, I am > reminded of the joy of holding the work in my hands, > the joy of personal possession of a physical object, > which online does not provide. So I suspect that at > some time, I will start the SASE grind with print > magazines again. Regards, Tom Savage > > AG Jorgensen wrote: I know > that the final answer is not one of either this > or that, but have witnessed some writers prefer this > over that. Too, there are those readers who are of > the > same pattern of choice. Lots of useful responses > have > been given in the past related to both and I'm > hoping > that this question might further illuminate the > issue > for me. > > Much of my work, and I've only submitted for about > two > years, has thusfar appeared in print, but then > sometime there's this feeling that online is where > it > is at - sorta like MTV, one wonders, was a while ago > - > and both print and online, as you know, seem to be > in > competition. A tap dancer is how I often feel. > > AJ > > --- > Good art however "immoral" is wholly a thing of > virtue. Good art can NOT be immoral. By good art I > mean art that bears true witness, I mean the art > that is most precise. -- Ezra Pound > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > --------------------------------- > How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low > PC-to-Phone call rates. > --- "Our best security, our only security, is in the world of ideas, and I sense a slight foreboding," he said.-- Justice Anthony Kennedy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2006 13:48:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: "A Remembrance of Hiroshima" 6 August 1945 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: "David-Baptiste Chirot" > >eerily next to nothing about the anniversary of Hiroshima in the news >today-- >i hope everyone has their own way of remembrance, public or private-- >these quotes from a piece in issue of the Catholic Worker my mother sent >me--by Pedro Arrupe, SJ >A Jesuit priest on outskirts of Hisroshima who witnessed the event and set >up >emergency makeshift hospital for refugees, then entered city-- > > "I was in my room with another preist at 8:15 when suddenly we saw a >blinding light, like a flash of magnesium. Naturally we were surprised and >jumped up to see waht was happening. As I opened the door which faced the >city, we haerd a formidable explosion similar to the blast of a hurricane. >At the same time the doors, windows and walls fell upon us in smithereens . >. . > "We climbed a hill to get a better view,. Fromthere we could see a >ruined cit: before us was a decimated Hiroshima . . . > "I shall never forget my first sight of what was the resultof the the >atomic bomb: a group of young women, eighteen or twenty years old, dragged >themselves alog the road. One had a blister that almost covered her chest; >she had burns across half her face, and a cut in her scalp porbably caused >by a falling tile, while quantities of blood coursed freely down her face. >On and on the came, a steady procession numerbing some 150,000. This gives >some idea of the numbing hororror of Hiroshima . . . > " . . . But there was anoher kind of burn whose cause no one could >explain. > I asked one victim: "How were you burnt?' >I recall his answer, 'I wasn't burnt, Father.' > 'Then, what happned to you?' > 'I dont' know. I saw a flash of light followed by a terrible >explosion >but nothing happned to me. Then, in half an hour I saw small, superficial >blisters forming on my skin which soon became infected. But there was no >fire.' > "It ws disconcerting. Today, we know that it was the effects of the >infrared radiation which attacks the tissues of the epidermis and the >ednodermis, but also the muscular tissue. The infections that followed >resulted in the death of many and confused those treating the victims . . >. > "We were to witness more horrible scenes that night. As we >approached >the river, the spectacle was awful beyond words. Fleeing the flamesand >availing themselves of low tide, the people lay across both shores, but in >the middle of the night the tide began to rise, and the wounded, exhasusted >now and half buried in mud, could not move. The cries of those drowning >are >something I shal never forget . . . > "(A greatly disconcerting evenet)Many who were in the city at the >moment of the explosion and had suffered no apparaent injuries whatsoever, >but who, nevertheless, after a few days felt weak and came to us saying >they >felt a terrible interior heat, that, perhaps, they had swallowed a poisnous >gas, and in a short time they died . . . > "Later a girl of thirteen came weeping and sid 'Father, look waht's >happening to me.' And opening her mouth, she showed me her bleeding gums, >small sores on the lining of the mouth nd acute pharyngitis. Sheshowed me >too how her hair was falling out in her hans in bunches. In two days she >was dead . . . > "Of the dead, fifty thousnd died the moment of the explosion itself, >another two hundred thousand during the foloowing weeksm and others much >later frmwounds and radiation. Yntil the day after the explosion, we did >not know that we were dealng with the first atom bomb to explode in our >world. > "At first, wihout electricity or radio, we were cut off from the rest >of the world. The following day, cars and trains began arriving from Tkyo >and Osaka with help for Hiroshima. They stayed in the outskirts of the >city, and when we questioned them as to what had happened, they answered >very mysteriously: 'The firsta tomic bomb has exploded.' > "'But what is the atomic bomb?' > "They would answer: 'The atom bomb is a terrible thing.' > "'We have seen how terrible itis, but what is it?' And they would >repeat: 'It's the atomic bomb . . . the atomic bomb.' > "They knew nothing but the name. It was a new word that was coming >for >the first time into the vocabulary. Besides, the knowledge that it was the >atomic bomb that had exploded was no help to us at all from a medical >standpoint, as no one in the world knew its full effects on the human >organism. We were, in effect, the first guinea pigs in such an >experimentation." > >That last line especially--after so many horrific ones--is trully >chilling-- > >_________________________________________________________________ >Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! >http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2006 15:33:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Bredie Subject: Jim Behrle & Gary Sullivan@ McNally Robinson Books NYC, this Wednesday, August 9th, 7pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear All, This week at Vacation House we move from the ridiculously sublime to the sublimely ridiculous with two poet/cartoonist/provocateurs who will no doubt make you laugh and/or piss you off. Is the demure McNally Robinson books ready for the onslaught of these two polymath iconoclasts. Come and find out. JIM BEHRLE's *She's My Best Friend* is due out from Pressed Wafer in the Fall.He is widely rumored to be a member of the shadowy editorial order of the online magazine can we have our ball back? And his various on-line shenanigans can be found all over the internet. Poet and cartoonist GARY SULLIVAN is the author of *How to Proceed in the Arts* and, with Nada Gordon, *Swoon*. He has published two issues of his comic book, *Elsewhere*, and is currently working on a book of translations of poetry by Ernst Herbeck. In other news: I am hosting a benefit reading/concert marking the one year anniversary of hurricane Katrina over at the Bowery Poetry Club. So save the date, 26 August 2006, from 7pm-11pm. It will feature the poetic stylings of PROFESSOR ARTURO, SAPPHIRE, JOHN GIORNO, ED SANDERS, EDWIN TORRES, GREG FUCHS, MARCELLA DURRAND, NATHANIEL SIEGEL,TONYA FOSTER, and MICHAEL FORD, along with food, music from New Orleans. Good time/good cause. also, in the same vein--the great New Orleans poet and saloon keeper Dave Brinks will be reading at the Bowery Poetry Club on Wednesday the 9th, at 8pm. So go see him [after you see Jim and Gary--make it a double feature] and get the real scoop on the health and well-being of the Big Easy. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2006 15:09:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: new email addresses for Bellamy and Killian In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" belladodie! that's so pretty! At 10:35 AM -0700 8/6/06, Kevin Killian wrote: >Hi Folks, > >Dodie Bellamy and I have new email addresses: > >Dodie Bellamy > >Kevin Killian > >Thanks. > >Kevin ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 09:02:11 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: TN - Not Like Beckett Comments: To: Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics , BRITISH-POETS@jiscmail.ac.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On TN this week - Not Like Beckett by Michael Watts, directed by Michael Kantor. Beckett @The Malthouse Theatre until August 20. It's hard to know how to describe Not Like Beckett. Should I take a cue from the title and do some negative theology, attempting to describe it by listing all the things it is not? As it says on the box, it is not at all like Beckett. It isn't like Ibsen or Chekhov or Miller, either. However, it is, in a particular and very recognisable way, extremely Australian. The iconic Yellow Peril that dominates the set is only the most obvious signal that this is a work about us, from us and for us. But there is nothing earnest - and not a shred of the provincial - in this anarchic, rambunctious and liberatingly offensive piece of theatre. Not Like Beckett embodies many of the things that I love about Australian culture: its irreverence, energy, intelligence, fearlessness and wit. There is no contradiction in the fact that it highlights our good points by exposing our bad: here, written large, is our racism, the apathy that segues into cruelty, the tinpot triumphalism of colonialisation, the sexual viciousness. But it's in all in the name of good, filthy fun. More at http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Also a welcome back to Encore Theatre Magazine and some very classy English theatre blogging - All the best Alison -- Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 00:39:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: "A Remembrance of Hiroshima" 6 August 1945 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hiroshima mentioned on tv news tonight and in ny a small gathering w/music in east village only japan remembers well ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2006 22:53:15 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AG Jorgensen Subject: China Tightening Control Over Tibet -- Maureen Fan In-Reply-To: <20060807.012109.-72129.67.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit China Tightening Control Over Tibet Even Amid Talks, Party Moves to Curb Influence of Dalai Lama By Maureen Fan Washington Post Foreign Service Saturday, August 5, 2006; Page A16 BEIJING, Aug. 4 -- China's Communist Party has been tightening its grip on Tibet in recent months, resorting to language and measures not seen since the repression of the late 1990s, according to sources with knowledge of the situation. The pressure comes as the Dalai Lama's envoys continue to negotiate with Beijing about his possible return to Tibet after more than 40 years in exile. The religious leader is regarded by the Chinese as bent on independence for the region, and his followers are seen as subversives. "In the last few weeks, we have seen an increasingly repressive political climate on Tibet as Beijing emphasizes its domination of the region," said Kate Saunders, a spokeswoman for the Washington-based International Campaign for Tibet. "It's difficult to discern the intentions of the senior leadership on the ongoing dialogue between the Dalai Lama's representatives and Beijing." Nongovernmental organizations in Tibet say they have started to feel the pressure. Some contracts to work in the region reportedly have not been renewed. Last month, a study program between American universities and Tibet University was closed in the city of Lhasa after 20 students arrived and were turned away, sources said on condition of anonymity. The official reason for the closure was that the teachers were too busy. Also last month, authorities shut down the blogs of a well-known Tibetan writer who posted a photograph of the Dalai Lama and wished him a happy birthday, his 71st. Some Tibet observers say the timing of the tightening could be a sign that various factions in the Communist Party are engaged in a power struggle, with hard-liners opposed to any deal that would bring the religious leader back from his exile in Dharamsala, India. But others argue that Chinese leaders have several cards and are playing them simultaneously, essentially negotiating on Tibet while still cracking down on the Dalai Lama's followers, said Robbie Barnett, professor of modern Tibetan studies at Columbia University. "Perhaps this is to wear down the Dalai Lama and threaten his power base," Barnett said. A story run in two Chinese newspapers and carried by the official New China News Agency asserted late last month that, while the Dalai Lama has told the world he seeks autonomy or a "middle way" rather than independence, he is not to be believed. "Given the fact that the Dalai Lama gives out different signals at different times and even at the same time, one can hardly agree his 'middle way' is different from 'Tibetan independence,' " the article said. The Chinese government has moved to block any influence the Dalai Lama has over Tibetans. Earlier this year, after the religious leader made a plea to protect endangered species and his followers began destroying their fur-lined traditional robes, the Chinese government banned Tibetans from burning fur pelts. Then, after monks clashed in a dispute over clay statues of an obscure deity at a monastery near Lhasa, the city's mayor accused the Dalai Lama of stirring up trouble and trying to "sabotage the unity of Tibet." There have long been cycles of repression and relaxation in Chinese policy toward Tibet. The previous two party secretaries in the region were considered technocrats who were more focused on economic development, observers said. But the current secretary, Zhang Qingli, who once served in the Communist Youth League with President Hu Jintao, has a strong record of making ideological statements against separatism. A former commander of the paramilitary Xinjiang Production and Construction Corps, Zhang had been charged with border security and presiding over the migration of millions of Han Chinese to Xinjiang. An informed source in Lhasa who spoke on condition of anonymity said thousands of government workers in Phenpo, a rural area just northeast of Lhasa, had been asked to write criticisms of the Dalai Lama. Similar campaigns have targeted monasteries in the past, but the source said it was unusual to involve civil servants. After being named to the post in May, Zhang had quickly declared a stepping-up of the Communist Party's patriotic education campaign in Tibet, beyond monasteries and nunneries to the wider population. He said it was a "fight-to- the-death struggle" with the Dalai Lama, who was "the biggest obstacle hindering Tibetan Buddhism from establishing normal order," according to state media reports. Said Saunders, of the International Campaign for Tibet: "It was almost Cultural Revolution language." A spokesman for the Foreign Ministry did not return a call seeking comment. --- "Our best security, our only security, is in the world of ideas, and I sense a slight foreboding," he said.-- Justice Anthony Kennedy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2006 23:42:03 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: Nastiness Comments: To: marcus@designerglass.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message -----=20 From: marcus@designerglass.com=20 To: alexander saliby ; UB Poetics discussion = group=20 Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 4:37 PM Subject: Re: Nastiness On 6 Aug 2006 at 10:57, alexander saliby wrote: > Only if one is a narrow, 'black & white' thinker..< Well, it's hard to see your statement that there is no virtue in=20 criticism as other than black and white thinking. That's pretty=20 stark. For you to try to claim, now, after that kind of black and=20 white statement, that it is you who are the subtly nuanced thinker=20 seems rather like killing both your parents and throwing yourself on=20 the mercy of the court on the grounds you're an orphan. Stop trying to see my comment as other than black and white...it is a = black and white statement: There is no virtue in Criticism. DUH...& = Stop attacking me personally. Address the statement. Either refute it = of not, but stick to the point. =20 > Others may hold to a slightly broader view, open to the realm of > possibilities which include even the remote possibility that they > themselves may be wrong (virtue-less) in any given circumstance. < Sure, and that's the position I'm suggesting I hold in this instance,=20 since it was you who made the black and white claim. Try to keep up. Actually, you haven't taken a position!=20 All you've done is take cheap shots at the person, ignoring the point = of the statement. Please repeat in a following statement any statement = you made that takes a position. I'd be happy to re-read them. After = all, my eyes are failing, and it is possible I missed your erudition. =20 > Nor does being open to the possibility of lacking in virtue lead to > the illogical conclusion, as you suggest, that one is a felon.< Deliberately misunderstanding an analogy does not help your argument,=20 especially not at this late date after you've admitted to being so=20 cynical and opinionated that you lack all virtue. It may not be a=20 certainty that those who lack all virtue are felons, but that's the=20 way to bet. You might want to be more careful in future about your=20 claims to lack of virtue. It's a little late in this instance,=20 though. Analogy...wow is that ever funny!=20 Sloppy thinking is sloppy thinking no matter what you call it! And = yours is both sloppy and personal. I sure as hell hope you aren't in a = position of importance in our public school or public university = systems...if you are, you may well be the reason the GOP is winning the = war on education they are waging when they claim our school system is in = the toilet.=20 > The > difference of course being in doing that which is illegal as > contrasted from doing that which is wrong. Though I also concede > there are some who find all acts of wrong to be illegal;< There is certainly a possible difference, between illegal and wrong,=20 but the reason that things are illegal is that a large part of a=20 society considers those things to be wrong. There are of course=20 exceptions, and reasons to campaign to change the laws to reflect new=20 social attitudes, but again, that something is illegal makes it wrong=20 is the way to bet. This is my favorite of your weasel words...in fact I've copied this = message and pasted it on my toilet paper which here to for I'd labeled = GOP...I'm now calling it Marcus's Bales. Marcus, listen to yourself try = to squirm out of your fuck ups: "There is certainly a possible = difference between illegal and wrong..." Damn, I'm sure glad I didn't = say that and you did! This may be the reason why lawyers have a bad = reputation...they too weasel like this. =20 > Virtue: The quality or act of doing that which is right and > avoiding that which is wrong. "She lives a life of virtue, avoiding > all sins of the flesh."=20 > Criticism: Disapproval expressed by pointing out what is wrong with > the work or thoughts of another. < There are two kinds of criticism: normative and critical. Normative=20 criticism is, roughly, judgment about whether something is right or=20 wrong withing the norms of the society; critical criticism is=20 judgment, roughly. about whether the norms of society reflect the=20 attitudes of society accurately. I have a word for this equally weasel nonsense: horseshit! =20 Are you drinking when you write this stuff, or are you on drugs? Pay = attention to this, I'll use caps to help you see the differences: = OPINION IS OPINION! YOU CAN CALL IT JUDGEMENT OR YOU CAN CALL IT = ANYTHING ELSE, IT IS STILL OPINION. And, since it is opinion, I repeat: = There is no virtue in criticism. =20 You seem to be thinking that whether something is virtuous or not is=20 a matter of critical judgment, while thinking that whether something=20 is legal or not is a matter of normative judgment. If I understand=20 you correctly, then, what you're claiming is that your critical=20 judgment is worthless because you're self-described as too cynical=20 and opinionated to have such judgment. You may still be claiming to=20 be able to tell whether something is legal or not (normative=20 judgment), but you've abandoned all claims to critical judgment, or=20 judgment of virtue. Marcus, what the hell is this nonsense? =20 My statement was simple, I'll repeat it: There is no virtue in = criticism. That statement neither castigates another thinker, nor does = it require a 600 word excuse for the fuck-up in your earlier comments. = Fact: criticism is opinion, ergo, I repeat: there is no virtue in = opinion (criticism). If in fact you lack the intellect to differentiate = between fact and opinion, I'm sorry, I really can't help you on this = point. =20 > Perhaps, ... this is merely a virtue-less opinion, Lucas > fails to see the virtue in Paul's screaming simply because Lucas has > already closed his mind to the possibility of truths inherent in the > thoughts of others.< Lucas seemed to me to be distinguishing between the substance of the=20 issues and the manner of presentation -- and in this I agree with=20 him. Name-calling and ad hominem attacks are deservedly relegated to=20 the category of fallaciousness. To urge people to stick to the point=20 and argue the issues on their merits, and refrain from personal and=20 ad hominem attacks, seems less like a closing of Lucas's mind to the=20 possibility of there being merit to Paul's position than like a=20 reasonable demand that the discussion be carried out at a reasonable=20 pitch and pace.=20 How generous of you to share with us your opinion here, finally!!!! =20 But too, you also miss the point of Lucas's attack. I suggest you = return to it, for in point of truth, Lucas in his comments, as do you in = yours to me, attempt more to attack the person than to argue the point. = I suspect both you and Lucas will continue to miss the point of the = Paul's of the mid-east...you've already made up your minds they are the = ranting and the illogical. In point of truth, they may be the only = remaining sane ones among us in that mess. I say let's pay some = attention to the screamers. They may be trying to tell us = something...even if it is something we really don't want to hear.=20 And this, Marcus, was my point to Lucas. He moved the solution bar not = one degree closer to resolution. In fact, he may have moved matters = several degrees further from resolution. =20 If there is a non-violent solution to the mess we currently have in = the Mid-East, that solution will not come from the rantings of different = views, nor will it come from any of your comments, however well = intentioned you may think you are.=20 Alex=20 Marcus > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: Marcus = Bales>=20 > To: > = POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU>=20 > Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 10:13 AM > Subject: Re: Nastiness >=20 >=20 > That sort of puts you in the position of an embezzler criticizing > another guy for stealing from the company, then, doesn't it? >=20 > M >=20 > On 6 Aug 2006 at 8:28, alexander saliby wrote: >=20 > > Nope...not even there. =20 > >=20 > > I'm too cynical and opinionated to have retained any virtuous > > qualities, if I ever really had any.=20 > > Alex > > ----- Original Message -----=20 > > From: Marcus > = Bales > M>>=20 > > To: > > > = POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > = lto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >>=20 > > Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 7:17 AM > > Subject: Re: Nastiness > >=20 > >=20 > > >Alex wrote: > > > > There is no virtue in criticism.< > >=20 > > What! Not even in your own criticism of Lucas!?=20 > >=20 > > Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 07:20:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: Nastiness Comments: To: alexander saliby In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 6 Aug 2006 at 10:57, alexander saliby wrote: > Only if one is a narrow, 'black & white' thinker..< Well, it's hard to see your statement that there is no virtue in criticism as other than black and white thinking. That's pretty stark. For you to try to claim, now, after that kind of black and white statement, that it is you who are the subtly nuanced thinker seems rather like killing both your parents and throwing yourself on the mercy of the court on the grounds you're an orphan. > Others may hold to a slightly broader view, open to the realm of > possibilities which include even the remote possibility that they > themselves may be wrong (virtue-less) in any given circumstance. < Sure, and that's the position I'm suggesting I hold in this instance, since it was you who made the black and white claim. Try to keep up. > Nor does being open to the possibility of lacking in virtue lead to > the illogical conclusion, as you suggest, that one is a felon.< Deliberately misunderstanding an analogy does not help your argument, especially not at this late date after you've admitted to being so cynical and opinionated that you lack all virtue. It may not be a certainty that those who lack all virtue are felons, but that's the way to bet. You might want to be more careful in future about your claims to lack of virtue. It's a little late in this instance, though. > The > difference of course being in doing that which is illegal as > contrasted from doing that which is wrong. Though I also concede > there are some who find all acts of wrong to be illegal;< There is certainly a possible difference, between illegal and wrong, but the reason that things are illegal is that a large part of a society considers those things to be wrong. There are of course exceptions, and reasons to campaign to change the laws to reflect new social attitudes, but again, that something is illegal makes it wrong is the way to bet. > Virtue: The quality or act of doing that which is right and > avoiding that which is wrong. "She lives a life of virtue, avoiding > all sins of the flesh." > Criticism: Disapproval expressed by pointing out what is wrong with > the work or thoughts of another. < There are two kinds of criticism: normative and critical. Normative criticism is, roughly, judgment about whether something is right or wrong withing the norms of the society; critical criticism is judgment, roughly. about whether the norms of society reflect the attitudes of society accurately. You seem to be thinking that whether something is virtuous or not is a matter of critical judgment, while thinking that whether something is legal or not is a matter of normative judgment. If I understand you correctly, then, what you're claiming is that your critical judgment is worthless because you're self-described as too cynical and opinionated to have such judgment. You may still be claiming to be able to tell whether something is legal or not (normative judgment), but you've abandoned all claims to critical judgment, or judgment of virtue. > Perhaps, ... this is merely a virtue-less opinion, Lucas > fails to see the virtue in Paul's screaming simply because Lucas has > already closed his mind to the possibility of truths inherent in the > thoughts of others.< Lucas seemed to me to be distinguishing between the substance of the issues and the manner of presentation -- and in this I agree with him. Name-calling and ad hominem attacks are deservedly relegated to the category of fallaciousness. To urge people to stick to the point and argue the issues on their merits, and refrain from personal and ad hominem attacks, seems less like a closing of Lucas's mind to the possibility of there being merit to Paul's position than like a reasonable demand that the discussion be carried out at a reasonable pitch and pace. Marcus On 6 Aug 2006 at 10:57, alexander saliby wrote: > M > Only if one is a narrow, 'black & white' thinker...e.g. there is > only that which is good (virtuous) and that which is evil (lacking > in virtue), and the good and the evil are set by their personal > definitions of the terms. > > Others may hold to a slightly broader view, open to the realm of > possibilities which include even the remote possibility that they > themselves may be wrong (virtue-less) in any given circumstance. > > Nor does being open to the possibility of lacking in virtue lead to > the illogical conclusion, as you suggest, that one is a felon. The > difference of course being in doing that which is illegal as > contrasted from doing that which is wrong. Though I also concede > there are some who find all acts of wrong to be illegal; I know a > few such folks who attend a local church I avoid. > > Virtue: The quality or act of doing that which is right and > avoiding that which is wrong. "She lives a life of virtue, avoiding > all sins of the flesh." > > Criticism: Disapproval expressed by pointing out what is wrong with > the work or thoughts of another. > > Perhaps, and of course, this is merely a virtue-less opinion, Lucas > fails to see the virtue in Paul's screaming simply because Lucas has > already closed his mind to the possibility of truths inherent in the > thoughts of others. > A > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Marcus Bales > To: > POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 10:13 AM > Subject: Re: Nastiness > > > That sort of puts you in the position of an embezzler criticizing > another guy for stealing from the company, then, doesn't it? > > M > > On 6 Aug 2006 at 8:28, alexander saliby wrote: > > > Nope...not even there. > > > > I'm too cynical and opinionated to have retained any virtuous > > qualities, if I ever really had any. > > Alex > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Marcus > Bales M>> > > To: > > > POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU lto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> > > Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 7:17 AM > > Subject: Re: Nastiness > > > > > > >Alex wrote: > > > > There is no virtue in criticism.< > > > > What! Not even in your own criticism of Lucas!? > > > > Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 04:53:13 -0700 Reply-To: rsillima@yahoo.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Silliman @ 60 (of late on the blog) Comments: To: Brit Po , New Po , Wom Po , Lucifer Poetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ RECENT POSTS Laugh1ng M1rrors Puk1ng: Stacy Doris reinvents the world A note on comments On turning 60 Philip K Dick & Shakespeare: The Simulacra Publishing Robert Grenier (100 Sentences / 100 Phrases) Jack Kerouac and Book of Sketches – a major work arrives sans editing James L. Weil Another Last Poem Visions of Kerouac – Clark Coolidge as literary critic Blog comments are back Sylvester Pollet and Backwoods Broadsides reach a conclusion Language Is by John Phillips a new moment is post-Projectivist post-Objectivist poetry? Mid-American Chants by Sherwood Anderson Writing as the personal never applied Gabe Gudding on the history of creative writing and contemporary poetry Rebirth of the division between the School of Quietude and the post-avant tradition in Afghan poetry in the U.S. Geography, community and traffic in the San Francisco Bay Area A moment of comedy offered by Brad Leithauser in the NY Times The tragedy of David Ignatow http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 09:15:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: Nastiness Comments: To: alexander saliby In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable On 6 Aug 2006 at 23:42, alexander saliby wrote: > Stop trying to see my commentas other than black and white...it > is a black and white statement: There is no virtue in Criticism. The claim "There is no virtue in criticism" is a criticism. If the claim is the true, the claim contradicts itself because if there is no virtue in criticism, there is no virtue in the claim itself. If the claim is false, then there is virtue in the claim because the claim is false. > Marcus, listen to yourself: ..."There is certainly a possible > differen= ce between illegal and wrong..." > Damn, I'm sure glad I didn't say that and you did! Alex, if there can be no difference between what is wrong and what is illegal, then there can be no difference between what is right and what is legal -- which means that there can be no critical analysis of the law and, thus, no way to change it. There must be a possible difference between what is illegal and what is wrong so that there can be a possible difference between what is right and what is legal so that we can have a critical analysis of the law. Marcus Bales wrote: > > There are two kinds of criticism: normative and critical. > > Normative criticism is, roughly, judgment about whether something > > = is right or wrong withing the norms of the society; critical > > criticism is judgment, roughly. about whether the norms of > > society reflect the attitudes of society accurately. > I have a word for this equally weasel nonsense: horseshit! Once again, Alex, if you deny that there is ever any difference between what is illegal and what is wrong, or between what is legal and what is right, you cannot have a critical analysis of the law, because you will have taken the position that the law is always right. > OPINION IS OPINION! YOU CAN CALL IT JUDGEMENT OR YOU CAN CALL IT > ANYTHING ELSE, IT IS STILL OPINION. And, since it is opinion, I > repeat: There is no virtue in criticism. ... criticism is opinion, > ergo, I repeat: there is no virtue in opinion (criticism). < This claim is just as easy to refute: The claim "There is no virtue in opinion" is an opinion. If the claim is the true, the claim contradicts itself because if there is no virtue in opinion, there is no virtue in the claim itself. If the claim is false, then there is virtue in the claim because the claim is false. > But too, you also miss the point of Lucas's attack. I suggest > you return to it, for in point of truth, Lucas in his comments, as > do you in yours to me, attempt more to attack the person than to argue > the point.< Lucas may or may not agree with Paul's opinions about what to do or not do with regard to the Israelis and Palestinians -- but what Lucas said about Paul's tone and manner was that Paul's name-calling and personal attack ought to be avoided. You criticised Lucas's criticism by saying there is no virtue in criticism, and I pointed out that that is a contradiction, a fallacy. I'm not really sure why you're trying to defend the contradiction, but then, I'm not really sure why you'd want to make it in the first place. > ... I say let's pay > some attention to the screamers. They may be trying to tell us > something...even if it is something we really don't want to > hear. < I say the screamers are the problem -- they're the ones saying "Kill the enemy!" and other various extremist things. It is the screamers, the zealots, the true believers who are creating the problem, on both sides, and who create the problems on both sides in almost all circumstances. That's why I, and Lucas, too, I think, oppose personal attacks and ad hominem arguments. > ... If there is a non-violent solution to the mess we currently have > in the Mid-East, that solution will not come from the rantings of > different views...< Here we may agree, if by "rantings" you mean what "the screamers" say -- though if you do, you've got another contradiction on your hands, since just above you said that you think that it may be "the screamers" whose rants we should be listening to. Speech you don=B4t like, if you=B4re going to be civil, requires speech that defends your views and argues against the views of others instead of wheeling out the rusty artillery of abuse. The example of imperturbable civility in the face of barbarian rage is emblematic, I think, of what civilization is all about, and is the best way in cyberspace (and cyberspace started with the first human writing, I think) to persuade others (though not often one=B4s enraged opponent, admittedly) of the virtues of such civility in the first place and the validity of one=B4s arguments in the second. The problem with the notion of "more speech" in response to speech one doesn=B4t like is not that it has been tried and found wanting, but that it has been tried and found difficult. It is, therefore, often abandoned in favor of the far easier demand to suppress the speech one doesn=B4t like. People should use civil speech to establish boundaries and definitions and to compare boundaries and definitions. One of the most fascinating things about the internet is that it invites people into a forum to discuss things with people they wouldn=B4t meet, or wouldn=B4t meet often, or if they met wouldn=B4t talk to, in the flesh. Some people, confronted with opinions they don=B4t want to hear, and forbidden either to call their opponents names or demand the suppression of their opponents views, vote with their feet. That's too bad, because running away from opposing views seems to me to be counter-productive and, ultimately, self-defeating. What seems to me to be productive and virtuous is, instead, trying to educating oneself, one's interlocutors, and the uncommitted bystanders through discussion that addresses the merits of the issues at hand without resorting to personal attack. Marcus > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Marcus Bales > > To: > > > POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 10:13 AM > > Subject: Re: Nastiness > > > > > > That sort of puts you in the position of an embezzler > criticizing > > another guy for stealing from the company, then, doesn't it? > > > > M > > > > On 6 Aug 2006 at 8:28, alexander saliby wrote: > > > > > Nope...not even there. > > > > > > I'm too cynical and opinionated to have retained any > virtuous > > > qualities, if I ever really had any. > > > Alex > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Marcus > > > Bales > M>> > > > To: > > > > > > POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > lto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >> > > > Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 7:17 AM > > > Subject: Re: Nastiness > > > > > > > > > >Alex wrote: > > > > > There is no virtue in criticism.< > > > > > > What! Not even in your own criticism of Lucas!? > > > > > > Marcus > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 08:27:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Re: Nastiness Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 As long as we're sticking to black and white - what about illegal art? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marcus Bales" > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Nastiness > Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 09:15:46 -0400 >=20 >=20 > On 6 Aug 2006 at 23:42, alexander saliby wrote: > > Stop trying to see my commentas other than black and white...it > > is a black and white statement: There is no virtue in Criticism. >=20 > The claim "There is no virtue in criticism" is a criticism. > If the claim is the true, the claim contradicts itself because if > there is no virtue in criticism, there is no virtue in the claim > itself. > If the claim is false, then there is virtue in the claim because the > claim is false. >=20 > > Marcus, listen to yourself: ..."There is certainly a possible > differe= nce between illegal and=20 > > wrong..." >=20 > > Damn, I'm sure glad I didn't say that and you did! >=20 > Alex, if there can be no difference between what is wrong and what is > illegal, then there can be no difference between what is right and > what is legal -- which means that there can be no critical analysis > of the law and, thus, no way to change it. There must be a possible > difference between what is illegal and what is wrong so that there > can be a possible difference between what is right and what is legal > so that we can have a critical analysis of the law. >=20 > Marcus Bales wrote: > > > There are two kinds of criticism: normative and critical. > > > Normative criticism is, roughly, judgment about whether something > >= is right or wrong=20 > > withing the norms of the society; critical > > > criticism is judgment, roughly. about whether the norms of > > > society reflect the attitudes of society accurately. >=20 > > I have a word for this equally weasel nonsense: horseshit! >=20 > Once again, Alex, if you deny that there is ever any difference > between what is illegal and what is wrong, or between what is legal > and what is right, you cannot have a critical analysis of the law, > because you will have taken the position that the law is always > right. >=20 > > OPINION IS OPINION! YOU CAN CALL IT JUDGEMENT OR YOU CAN CALL IT > > ANYTHING ELSE, IT IS STILL OPINION. And, since it is opinion, I > > repeat: There is no virtue in criticism. ... criticism is opinion, > > ergo, I repeat: there is no virtue in opinion (criticism). < >=20 > This claim is just as easy to refute: >=20 > The claim "There is no virtue in opinion" is an opinion. > If the claim is the true, the claim contradicts itself because if > there is no virtue in opinion, there is no virtue in the claim > itself. > If the claim is false, then there is virtue in the claim because the > claim is false. >=20 > > But too, you also miss the point of Lucas's attack. I suggest > > you return to it, for in point of truth, Lucas in his comments, as > > do you in yours to me, attempt more to attack the person than to argue > > the point.< >=20 > Lucas may or may not agree with Paul's opinions about what to do or > not do with regard to the Israelis and Palestinians -- but what Lucas > said about Paul's tone and manner was that Paul's name-calling and > personal attack ought to be avoided. You criticised Lucas's criticism > by saying there is no virtue in criticism, and I pointed out that > that is a contradiction, a fallacy. I'm not really sure why you're > trying to defend the contradiction, but then, I'm not really sure why > you'd want to make it in the first place. >=20 > > ... I say let's pay > > some attention to the screamers. They may be trying to tell us > > something...even if it is something we really don't want to > > hear. < >=20 > I say the screamers are the problem -- they're the ones saying "Kill > the enemy!" and other various extremist things. It is the screamers, > the zealots, the true believers who are creating the problem, on both > sides, and who create the problems on both sides in almost all > circumstances. That's why I, and Lucas, too, I think, oppose personal > attacks and ad hominem arguments. >=20 > > ... If there is a non-violent solution to the mess we currently have > > in the Mid-East, that solution will not come from the rantings of > > different views...< >=20 > Here we may agree, if by "rantings" you mean what "the screamers" say > -- though if you do, you've got another contradiction on your hands, > since just above you said that you think that it may be "the > screamers" whose rants we should be listening to. >=20 > Speech you don=B4t like, if you=B4re going to be civil, requires speech > that defends your views and argues against the views of others > instead of wheeling out the rusty artillery of abuse. >=20 > The example of imperturbable civility in the face of barbarian rage > is emblematic, I think, of what civilization is all about, and is the > best way in cyberspace (and cyberspace started with the first human > writing, I think) to persuade others (though not often one=B4s enraged > opponent, admittedly) of the virtues of such civility in the first > place and the validity of one=B4s arguments in the second. >=20 > The problem with the notion of "more speech" in response to speech > one doesn=B4t like is not that it has been tried and found wanting, but > that it has been tried and found difficult. It is, therefore, often > abandoned in favor of the far easier demand to suppress the speech > one doesn=B4t like. >=20 > People should use civil speech to establish boundaries and > definitions and to compare boundaries and definitions. One of the > most fascinating things about the internet is that it invites people > into a forum to discuss things with people they wouldn=B4t meet, or > wouldn=B4t meet often, or if they met wouldn=B4t talk to, in the flesh. >=20 > Some people, confronted with opinions they don=B4t want to hear, and > forbidden either to call their opponents names or demand the > suppression of their opponents views, vote with their feet. That's > too bad, because running away from opposing views seems to me to be > counter-productive and, ultimately, self-defeating. What seems to me > to be productive and virtuous is, instead, trying to educating > oneself, one's interlocutors, and the uncommitted bystanders through > discussion that addresses the merits of the issues at hand without > resorting to personal attack. >=20 > Marcus >=20 >=20 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Marcus Bales > > > To: > > > > > POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > > Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 10:13 AM > > > Subject: Re: Nastiness > > > > > > > > > That sort of puts you in the position of an embezzler > > criticizing > > > another guy for stealing from the company, then, doesn't it? > > > > > > M > > > > > > On 6 Aug 2006 at 8:28, alexander saliby wrote: > > > > > > > Nope...not even there. > > > > > > > > I'm too cynical and opinionated to have retained any > > virtuous > > > > qualities, if I ever really had any. > > > > Alex > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Marcus > > > > > Bales > > M>> > > > > To: > > > > > > > > > POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > > > lto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > >> > > > > Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 7:17 AM > > > > Subject: Re: Nastiness > > > > > > > > > > > > >Alex wrote: > > > > > > There is no virtue in criticism.< > > > > > > > > What! Not even in your own criticism of Lucas!? > > > > > > > > Marcus > > > > > > > Christophe Casamassima Professor Emiritus, Modern Languages & Philology University of Jamaica Avenue, Queens, N.Y. --=20 ___________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.graffiti.net/ Powered By Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 06:51:08 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adam Fieled Subject: Peter Ciccariello on PFS Post MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit New on PFS Post (http://www.artrecess.blogspot.com): Rhode Island artist Peter Ciccariello has three images up, from his Landscape of Diplomacy series. Beautiful stuff; please check it out. Today on Stoning the Devil (http://www.adamfieled.blogspot.com): "Half-Birthday Post Avant Blues" --------------------------------- Groups are talking. We´re listening. Check out the handy changes to Yahoo! Groups. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 07:38:48 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adam Fieled Subject: On Jessica Smith's blog: NOT ME MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I just found out, from Jessica Smith, that a rumor has been circulating that I'm the one that was "blog-stalking" her. I say here, unequivocally, for all time, that the person on her blog was NOT ME. I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO HIDE!!! To those of you who've been spreading the rumour, DESIST. It's NOT TRUE. Go pin the tail on someone else, you mystery loving, crime stopping "Sherlocks". I don't do things like that, never have. Period. Eat a peach, Adam Fieled afieled@yahoo.com --------------------------------- See the all-new, redesigned Yahoo.com. Check it out. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 07:39:11 -0700 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Subject: James L. Weil and the Elizabeth Press MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I find it tough to believe that no one here has something to say about Jim Weil who is definitely one the most important American poetry publishers of the 1960's and 70's. While I might guess that from this list only Ed Foster, Jenny Penberthy and myself (& maybe David Kirschenbaum) have had direct contact with him (as others I know are not subscribed here), it seems important to mention his contribution as my work brought him to his publishing, not his poetry. Weil ran the Elizabeth Press from the early 1960's until 1982; during this period he published the first collections by Simon Perchik, Carroll Arnett, and John Taggart. Some of his other authors included Lorine Niedecker, Larry Eigner, Ted Enslin, Anselm Hollo, and John Perlman(whose first book he might also have published). From the early 60's to the late 70's he was the primary publisher of William Bronk, Cid Corman, Simon Perchik, John Perlman and Carroll Arnett. Life Supports by William Bronk, when re-issued by another press, won the National Book Award in 1982. For me his importance was what it lead me towards, reading _Which Hand Holds the Brother_ by Simon Perchik lead me to re-issuing all of his Elizabeth Books. Reading Larry Eigner's Elizabeth books led me toward reading a publication called L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E which had a feature about him, which in turn lead me to reading and eventually publishing Bob Grenier. My extensive work with editing Hands Collected The Books of Simon Perchik (which includes six books from Elizabeth Press) as well as a Collected of Carroll Arnett (which also includes six books from Elizabeth) and talks with Cid Corman about issuing a Selected (including probably a dozen of Elizabeth books, which was eventually released by New Directions) are what brought me in contact with him. He also published 18 issues of Elizabeth between 1961 and 1971. Some of their better known authors were Diane Wakoski, Cid Corman, George Oppen, Ron Offen, Lewis Turco, Richard Crashaw, William Stafford, Simon Perchik, Felix Stefanile, David Ignatow, Carroll Arnett, Loring Williams, Anselm Hollo, Robert Creeley, John Taggart, George Bowering, Paul Blackburn as well as many others. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 11:14:28 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Ciccariello Subject: Re: "A Remembrance of Hiroshima" 6 August 1945 In-Reply-To: <20060807.012109.-72129.67.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Steve, FYI, I did get this email yesterday. -Peter --- "Matt Holland, TrueMajority" wrote: > Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2006 16:23:45 GMT > > Subject: On Hiroshima day, send an e-card that will stop the madness > > "I never really understood the craziness until I saw this video" > In honor of the victims of Hiroshima, send this E-card to your > friends > > Sunday is Hiroshima Day, the 61st anniversary of the first > atomic bomb attack in history. > > We've come up with a 90-second video that shows the truth in a > simple way you'll never forget.(click below to watch it). > http://www.truemajority.org/postcard > > Hiroshima Day is a time to remember the dead, but let's also > work toward a saner, safer future. Please send the E-card to as > many people as you can. You will be commemorating the day at the > same time you spread the crucial information needed stop the > craziness. > > No more Hiroshimas, > > Matt Holland > TrueMajority Online Director ____________________________________________________ On 8/7/06, Steve Dalachinsky wrote: > > hiroshima mentioned on tv news tonight and in ny a small gathering > w/music in east village > > only japan remembers well > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 08:37:18 -0700 Reply-To: Michael Tod Edgerton Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Tod Edgerton Subject: Alice Notley's email MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Does anyone by any chance have Alice Notley's email? Or know if she even does email? I have a snail mail address for her in Paris, but given that that would take a good month back and forth, I was hoping to expedite things with an email. (I'm hoping desperately that she will sponsor my Fulbright app.) Please backchannel, of cousrse. Many thanks in advance! Cheers, Tod Michael Tod Edgerton Poet-in-Residence, Spring 2006 Stonehill College __________________ Peter Kaplan Memorial Fellow, 2004 - 2006 Program in Literary Arts Brown University "There's the mute probability of a reciprocal lack of understanding" - Mei-mei Berssenbrugge ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 12:01:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Kelleher Subject: JUST BUFFALO E-NEWSLETTER 8-07-06 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable OPEN READINGS, hosted by Livio Farallo Carnegie Art Center 240 Goundry St., North Tonawanda (Meets monthly on the second Wednesday) Featured: Karen Lewis, Celeste Lawson Wednesday, August 9, 7 P.M. 10 slots for open readers Free JOIN JUST BUFFALO ONLINE=21=21=21 If you would like to join Just Buffalo, or simply make a massive personal d= onation, you can do so online using your credit card. We have recently added the abilit= y to join online by paying with a credit card through PayPal. Simply click on the me= mbership level at which you would like to join, log in (or create a PayPal account u= sing your Visa/Amex/Mastercard/Discover), and voil=E1, you will find yourself in lite= rary heaven. For more info, or to join now, go to our website: http://www.justbuffalo.org/membership/index.shtml JUST BUFFALO WRITER'S CRITIQUE GROUP Members of Just Buffalo are welcome to attend a free, bi-monthly writer cri= tique group in CEPA's Flux Gallery. Group meets 1st and 3rd Wednesday at 7 p.m. Call fo= r details. Note: the critique group is on hiatus until September. Please call in Augu= st if you'd like to join up in the fall. LITERARY BUFFALO 2 EVENTS THIS WEEK AT TALKING LEAVES...BOOKS James Conroyd Martin , author of the novel Against a Crimson Sky , a BookSe= nse pick for August 2006, will be at Talking Leaves...Elmwood to discuss and sign co= pies of the just-released book on Monday, August 7, at 7 pm. The event is free and op= en to the public. Copies of the new novel and its companion work, Push Not the Rive= r , are available for purchase now and will be on sale during the autographing. Cristina Page , author of How the Pro-Choice Movement Saved America: Freedo= m, Politics and the War on Sex , will discuss and sign copies of her book at T= alking Leaves...Books, 3158 Main Street, on Thursday, August 10, at 7 pm. This e= vent, hosted by Talking Leaves and sponsored by NARAL Pro-Choice New York's Buffa= lo Action Team, is free and open to the public. Copies of Ms. Page's book ar= e available for purchase, and will be sold the night of the talk and signing. UNSUBSCRIBE If you would like to unsubscribe from this list, just say so and you will b= e immediately removed. _______________________________ Michael Kelleher Artistic Director Just Buffalo Literary Center Market Arcade 617 Main St., Ste. 202A Buffalo, NY 14203 716.832.5400 716.270.0184 (fax) www.justbuffalo.org mjk=40justbuffalo.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 11:17:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: BookMooch Comments: To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed BookMooch is a community for exchanging used books. BookMooch lets you give away books you no longer need in exchange for books you really want. # Give & receive: Every time you give someone a book, you earn a point and can get any book you want from anyone else at BookMooch. Once you've read a book, you can keep it forever or put it back into BookMooch for someone else, as you wish. # No cost: there is no cost to join or use this web site: your only cost is mailing your books to others. # Points for entering books: you receive a tenth-of-a-point for every book you type into our system, and one point each time you give a book away. In order to keep receiving books, you need to give away at least one book for every two you receive. # Help charities: you can also give your points to charities we work with, such as children's hospitals (so a sick kid can get a free book delivered to their bed), Library fund, African literacy, or to us to thank us for running this web site . # World wide: BookMooch is not just for Americans. You can request books from other countries, in other languages. You receive 2 points when you send a book out of your country, to help compensate you for the greater mailing cost. John Buckman, who runs BookMooch, lives both in California and London, England, and was frustrated by the vast number of books that were printed in just one country but not any another, or only after several years. Translations into French, German and other languages are planned, and we already work fine with the various Amazon worldwide databases. # Wishlist: you can keep a "book wish list" that will automatically arrive to you when you have the points and/or the book becomes available in our catalog. Others earn 2 points if they supply a book on your wishlist, so everyone is highly motivated to help find books others are looking for. # All books: our goal is to make more use out of all books, to help keep books from becoming unavailable. The worst thing that can happen to a book is for no-one to be able to read it. # Feedback score: each time you receive a book, you can leave feedback with the sender, just like how eBay does it. If you keep your feedback score up, people are most likely to help you out when you ask for a book. http://bookmooch.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 12:57:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kevin thurston Subject: help: Entartete Kunst MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline does anyone have, or can they point me to, a translation of the actual edict made by goebbels (i assume) regarding degenerate art? or perhaps the text from the catalog if they made one? i'd appreciate it. -- http://fuckinglies.blogspot.com http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/thepixelplus/nhdoublewide.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 17:57:10 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Paul Nelson Subject: Re: JUST BUFFALO E-NEWSLETTER 8-07-06 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Kelleher [mailto:mjk@JUSTBUFFALO.ORG] > Sent: Monday, August 7, 2006 04:01 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: JUST BUFFALO E-NEWSLETTER 8-07-06 > > OPEN READINGS, hosted by Livio Farallo > > Carnegie Art Center > 240 Goundry St., North Tonawanda (Meets monthly on the second Wednesday= ) > Featured: Karen Lewis, Celeste Lawson > Wednesday, August 9, 7 P.M. > 10 slots for open readers > Free Hey Michael, Is there any way we could put a temporary hold on the Dualism and Olsonia= n/ Whiteheadian Process essay? It will be published in Fulcrum and they h= ave asked that it be off-line til Jan 1, 2007. Here's what I have put on = my own website: http://globalvoicesradio.org/temporarily.html Let me know and thanks for your consideration. Paul > > JOIN JUST BUFFALO ONLINE!!! > > If you would like to join Just Buffalo, or simply make a massive person= al donation, you > can do so online using your credit card. We have recently added the ab= ility to join > online by paying with a credit card through PayPal. Simply click on th= e membership > level at which you would like to join, log in (or create a PayPal accou= nt using your > Visa/Amex/Mastercard/Discover), and voil=E1, you will find yourself in = literary heaven. > For more info, or to join now, go to our website: > > http://www.justbuffalo.org/membership/index.shtml > > JUST BUFFALO WRITER'S CRITIQUE GROUP > > Members of Just Buffalo are welcome to attend a free, bi-monthly writer= critique group > in CEPA's Flux Gallery. Group meets 1st and 3rd Wednesday at 7 p.m. Cal= l for details. > > Note: the critique group is on hiatus until September. Please call in = August if you'd like > to join up in the fall. > > LITERARY BUFFALO > > 2 EVENTS THIS WEEK AT TALKING LEAVES...BOOKS > > James Conroyd Martin , author of the novel Against a Crimson Sky , a Bo= okSense pick > for August 2006, will be at Talking Leaves...Elmwood to discuss and sig= n copies of the > just-released book on Monday, August 7, at 7 pm. The event is free an= d open to the > public. Copies of the new novel and its companion work, Push Not the = River , are > available for purchase now and will be on sale during the autographing.= > > Cristina Page , author of How the Pro-Choice Movement Saved America: Fr= eedom, > Politics and the War on Sex , will discuss and sign copies of her book = at Talking > Leaves...Books, 3158 Main Street, on Thursday, August 10, at 7 pm. Th= is event, > hosted by Talking Leaves and sponsored by NARAL Pro-Choice New York's B= uffalo > Action Team, is free and open to the public. Copies of Ms. Page's boo= k are available > for purchase, and will be sold the night of the talk and signing. > > UNSUBSCRIBE > > If you would like to unsubscribe from this list, just say so and you wi= ll be immediately > removed. > _______________________________ > Michael Kelleher > Artistic Director > Just Buffalo Literary Center > Market Arcade > 617 Main St., Ste. 202A > Buffalo, NY 14203 > 716.832.5400 > 716.270.0184 (fax) > www.justbuffalo.org > mjk@justbuffalo.org > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 13:24:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: "New Dawn" an abstract Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed 1 EXPLOSION: SEQUENCE AND SIMULTANEITY Greenwich Time 11:16 P.M. August 5 1945... Hiroshima Time 6:16 P.M. " "... 2 GOODBYE TO TINIAN Now that all the"unauthorized items"are cleared from the bomber/... Colonel Tibbets, commander/... Addresses the crew, "just don't/Screw it up..." 3 TAKEOFF: TINIAN ISLAND ...Position taken... 4 MYSTIC NAME ...some name it"The Beast," and some... "Little Boy." 5 WHEN ... 6:30 A.M. Japanese Time, last lap to target... 6 IWO JIMA ...Advice bombing primary-i.e./Hiroshima... 7 SELF AND NON-SELF... /8 DAWN... 9 THE APPROACH Speed 200 miles per hour... /On time. Color/Of the world changes. /...like a dream. 10 WHAT THAT IS The apocalyptic blaze... Bursts... Hiroshima Time:8:16 A.M., August 6, 1945. 12 MANIC ATMOSPHERE... /13 TRIUMPHAL BEAUTY... 14 HOME "We made it!"... The mutual salute. At last... 15 SLEEP Some men, no doubt, will, before sleep, consider/One thought: I am alone. But some, /in the mercy of God, or booze, do not Long stare at the dark ceiling. --Robert Penn Warren [Note: The above is an abstract of a poem called "New Dawn," first published in the New Yorker issue dated Nov. 14, 1983] Hal Serving the tristate area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@gmail.com halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 14:00:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: help: Entartete Kunst Comments: To: performancelist@googlegroups.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Kevin: The original catalog entire is reproduced in Stephnie Barron's excellent book DEGENERATE ART The Fate of the Avant-Garde in Nazi Germany along with the floor plan of the exhibit and 150 reproductions and list of al the artits etc. Actually itwas one of the first realblockbuster exhibits f the 20th century, drawing 3 million people in its travels--ironically making the degenarte art a huge hit and seen by far more poeple than the opfficially apporved National Socialist Art. Another weird twist is that included in the exhibit to show the degeneracy of the modern artists on dispaly were works from the famous Prinzhorn collection of art by by the insane. Prinzhorn's book BILDNEREI DER GEISTESKRANKEN had had an immense impact on the work of Klee and many other artists as well as the Surrealists and led in part to Dubuffet's development of Art Brut collections and the beginnings of recognitions of outsider art. The Nazis reversed the direction by hanging the mentally ill alongside those they had influenced to show not the artistic merit of the insane but the insanity of the artists. The Barron book also has essays making connections between the Nazis' ideas on degeneracy in modern art and contemporary ones of the time period (the book came out in 1991, connected with huge exhibition in LA). >From: "kevin thurston" > >does anyone have, or can they point me to, a translation of the actual >edict >made by goebbels (i assume) regarding degenerate art? or perhaps the text >from the catalog if they made one? > >i'd appreciate it. > >-- >http://fuckinglies.blogspot.com > >http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/thepixelplus/nhdoublewide.html > > >--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >"The Performance List" group. >To post to this group, send email to performancelist@googlegroups.com >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >performancelist-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >For more options, visit this group at >http://groups.google.com/group/performancelist >-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 15:03:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Quartermain Subject: NYC Readings MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Meredith Quartermain and I plan to be in Buffalo 12-14 October, and in New York City for about a week starting 17 October. Is there any chance for her to give a reading in Buffalo then, or for either or both of us to give a reading in NYC? Back-channel, please. Thanks. Peter ========= Peter Quartermain 846 Keefer Street Vancouver BC Canada V6A 1Y7 604 255 8274 (voice) 604 255 8204 fax quarterm@interchange.ubc.ca ========= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 18:11:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Simon DeDeo Subject: rhubarb is susan In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed After more than two month's hiatus, rhubarb is back! With two reviews and an audio recording. Main blog: http://rhubarbissusan.blogspot.com/ "Chicago Ontology": http://rhubarbissusan.blogspot.com/2006/08/chicago-ontology.html Douglas Barbour & Shelia Murphy: http://rhubarbissusan.blogspot.com/2006/08/douglas-barbour-shelia-murphy-ix.html Natascha Saje: http://rhubarbissusan.blogspot.com/2006/08/natascha-saje-acknowledgments.html Thanks for tuning in -- and don't forget you can "subscribe" to the RSS feed here: http://feeds.feedburner.com/rhubarb I hope all are having an excellent Summer. Yours, Simon ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 17:29:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Contact for Poetique??? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" hi all: I can't find out how to contact the french journal Poetique. Are there any French folks or folks living in Paris who have any idea how to get in touch with them? I need to find out the original German source for a Karlheinz Stierle article they published in #32 (back in 1977). Can't find an E-dress or even a mailing address, let alone a phone #. any help wd be appreciated. thanks all --md ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 19:43:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Slaughter, William" Subject: Notice: Mudlark MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit New and On View: Mudlark Poster No. 62 (2006) Five Poems by Liz Dolan Teresa of Avila, Mystic, Reformer, Exhorts Her Sisters Marie Curie Illuminates her Research for Us Marie Curie Speaks to Pierre Sister Dorothy Stang, 72, Reflects on her Assassination The Woman Who Held Her Ground Liz Dolan is a wife, mother, grandmother, retired English teacher; she is most proud of the alternative school she ran in the Bronx. She has eight grandchildren who live on the next block. One, David, has Downs Syndrome; he was born when she was grieving the loss of three family members in four months, one, an infant born dead. Now she knows David came to help her heal. Liz has published poems, memoir and short stories in The Delaware Anthology, New Delta Review, Rattle, Harpweaver, and Natural Bridge among others. A Delaware Division of the Arts fellowship recipient and a Pushcart nominee in fiction, her work in Mudlark, Poster No. 54 (2004), Lost Children, was chosen for The Best of the Web del Sol. Recently accepted as an associate artist in residence with Sharon Olds at the Atlantic Center for the Arts in New Smyrna Beach, Florida, she is also on the board of Philadelphia Stories. Spread the word. Far and wide, William Slaughter MUDLARK An Electronic Journal of Poetry & Poetics Never in and never out of print... E-mail: mudlark@unf.edu URL: http://www.unf.edu/mudlark ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 19:44:29 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: Re: On Jessica Smith's blog: NOT ME MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit < Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabrielle Welford Subject: Re: On Jessica Smith's blog: NOT ME In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT funny, it wouldn't have occurred to me to think "sherlock" referred to a person before you said so here! g On Mon, 7 Aug 2006, Craig Allen Conrad wrote: > < that I'm the one that < all time, that the person on her blog < HIDE!!! To those of you who've been < TRUE. Go pin the tail on someone else, you < "Sherlocks". I don't do things like that, never have. Period. > << Eat a peach, > << Adam Fieled > > Adam Fielded, you owe Frank Sherlock a VERY PUBLIC apology for using his > name here. > He did not spread any rumors about you. Nor did I. In fact, the person who > suspected you > came to me with their framework of suspicions and I told them NO WAY. I > told them that I > would not back them up because it wasn't clear who was attacking Jessica > White. > > A little advice dear Adam, JUST BECAUSE you think you're clever doesn't mean > you are. > > When you start that Ph.D. program next month you might want to consider > doing some > research before presenting your assumptions. Assumptions will get your > not-so-clever > ass into trouble. > > SUFFERING SUCCOTASH! CAConrad > > CAConrad is the author of Deviant Propulsion (Soft Skull Press, 2006) > for poem samples from the book go to: _http://CAConrad.blogspot.com_ > (http://caconrad.blogspot.com/) > "Those who restrain desire, do so because theirs is weak enough to be > restrained...." > --William Blake > for PhillySound: NEW POETRY: _http://PhillySound.blogspot.com_ > (http://phillysound.blogspot.com/) > for CAConrad's tarot services:_ http://LightOfLakshmi.blogspot.com_ > (http://lightoflakshmi.blogspot.com/) > gabrielle welford welford@hawaii.edu Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.595 / Virus Database: 378 - Release Date: 2/25/2004 wilhelm reich anarcho-syndicalism gut/heart/head/earth ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 23:03:19 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Larissa Shmailo Subject: THE FEMINIST POETS IN LOW-CUT BLOUSES EQUAL OPPORTUNITY READING MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 The Feminist Poets in Low-Cut Blouses welcome men. =20 Where would we be without them? =20 (Sane, solvent, slim?)=20 Sliding Scale Poetry presents=20 THE FEMINIST POETS IN LOW-CUT BLOUSES=20 EQUAL OPPORTUNITY READING=20 Sunday August 13=20 5-7 p.m.=20 The Bowery Poetry Club=20 308 Bowery between Houston and Bleecker=20 (across from CBGB's)=20 F to Delancey; 6 to Bleecker=20 $6=20 Information: 212-712-9865=20 _slidingsca@aol.com_ (mailto:slidingsca@aol.com) =20 STARRING:=20 Madeline Artenberg=20 Mallie Boman=20 Steve Dalachinsky=20 Robert Dunn=20 Nemo Hill=20 Brant Lyon=20 Susan Maurer=20 Iris N. Schwartz=20 Larissa Shmailo=20 SPECIAL GUEST EMCEE: Chocolate Waters=20 (Drag, dear audience, is entirely optional, but remember the Feminist Poet=20 in Low- Cut Blouses motto: Sometimes, one button less is more . . .)=20 About the Feminist Poets in Low-Cut Blouses=20 and the men who dare read with us:=20 Madeline Artenberg performs frequently in NYC, including at the Bowery=20 Poetry Club, backed by David Amram. Her work appears in print and online jo= urnals,=20 such as Absinthe Literary Review, she has garnered poetry awards (e.g.,=20 Semi-Finalist in the Margie 2005 contest), and her book Awakened (with poem= s by=20 Iris N. Schwartz) was published by Rogue Scholars Press in April 2006.=20 Mallie Boman is a renaissance person who has worked in theatre, film, radio=20 as a writer, director, performer, entrepreneur, producer, teacher. A tai c= hi =20 master, she follows her breath, heart and vision, winning awards from mayors= =20 in 2 countries, writing poetry and award-winning plays, performs in MONA=20 LISA, BUDDHA & ME and was part of NOW Free Theatre, the first feminist thea= tre =20 company in NYC. Mallie is currently traveling and directing several =20 documentaries about people and works that inspire her. _www.bambooandbone.c= om_=20 (http://www.bambooandbone.com/) =20 steve dalachinsky=E2=80=99s widely-published work has appeared in Big Brid= ge, Milk,=20 Ratapallax, Evergreen Review, Long Shot, and N.Y. Arts Magazine. He is =20 anthologized as Beat Indeed, The Haiku Moment and the esteemed Outlaw Bible=20= of =20 American Poetry. His acclaimed 1999 CD, Incomplete Direction (Knitting Facto= ry =20 Records) is a collection of his poetry read in collaboration with musicians=20= =20 William Parker, Matthew Shipp, Daniel Carter, Sabir Mateen, Thurston Moore =20 (SonicYouth), Vernon Reid (Living Colour). His most recent chapbooks includ= e=20 Musicology (Editions Pioche, Paris 2005) and Lautreamont's Laments (Furnitu= re=20 Press 2005. His books include A Superintendent's Eyes (Hozomeen Press 2000)= =20 and The Final Nite. His latest CD is Phenomena of Interference, a collabora= tion=20 with pianist Matthew Shipp (Hopscotch Records 2005). =20 Writer/artist Robert Dunn is the author of such books as Zen Yentas in=20 Bondage, Horse Latitudes, and Baffled in Baloneyville. He has served as Edi= tor of=20 Medicinal Purposes Literary Review and The New Press Literary Quarterly. Mr= .=20 Dunn=E2=80=99s poetry has appeared around the world, which is more than you= can say=20 for him. He lives, works, and plays checkers with raisins on waffles in New= =20 York City. Raisins, he finds, are very hard to crown.=20 Abandoned by his parents, R. NEMO HILL was raised by gay werewolves. In th= e=20 early eighties he was convicted of locking himself overnight in the basemen= t=20 of the local post office, and licking all the stamps. As punishment for=20 this reckless criminal act he was forced to publish, in collaboration with= =20 painter Jeanne Hedstrom, an illustrated novel based upon the processes of=20 medieval alchemy (Pilgrim=E2=80=99s Feather, Quantuck Lane Press)=E2=80=94=20= as well as a =20 book-length poem in heroic couplets, based upon a short story by H. P. Lovec= raft =20 (The Strange Music of Erich Zann, Hippocampus Press.) =20 Brant Lyon has featured his poetry and music at nearly all the expectable=20 places of good and ill repute: Bowery Poetry Club, Cornelia Street Cafe, 13= th =20 St. Reperatory Theatre, The Lower East Side Festival, Gathering of the=20 Tribes, Shutters Cafe, Central Park Bandshell, etc., etc. And been publish= ed =20 here and there, but not enough to his satisfaction: in Rattle, Lullwater Re= view,=20 several issues of Salonika, Rogue Scholars, nycBigCityLit, The Long=20 Islander, and others. He is, hat in hand, whorishly shopping around for a p= ublisher=20 for his first collection of poetry. He runs the monthly 'jazzoetry' series,= =20 "Hydrogen Jukebox" at 5C Caf=C3=A9. Feminist? He used to play with dolls.=20= You=20 figure it out! =20 Susan Maurer is the author By the Blue Light of the Morning Glory, Linea= r=20 Art. She has been in over a hundred different journals and anthologies (in=20 ten countries) including Literary Imagination, Cross Connect, Virginia=20 Quarterly Review, Orbis, The Unbearables' Help Yourself!, Autonomedia, and=20= Soft=20 Skull's Off the Cuffs. She has been nominated for a Pushcart by three and h= as=20 new chapbook with Mark Sonnefield published by Marymark Press, 2005. =20 Iris N. Schwartz has poetry anthologized in An Eye for an Eye Makes the=20 Whole World Blind, and in Listening to the Birth of Crystals, and in such =20 journals as Erbacce and Pikeville Review. Her novella was anthologized in T= hat's=20 Amore!, her short stories in Stirring Up A Storm and elsewhere. Iris has=20 featured at Cornelia St. Caf=C3=A9 and KGB Bar, among other venues, and on=20= radio,=20 on-line interactive TV, and Internet radio. Her book of poetry with Madelin= e=20 Artenberg, Awakened, was recently published by Rogue Scholars Press.=20 Larissa Shmailo has read with the Black Panthers, for the Writer's Harvest= =20 against Hunger, at the Knitting Factory, and countless other national venue= s.=20 She has received "Critic's Pick" notices and critical acclaim for her=20 readings and radio performances from the New York Times, the Village Voic= e, and=20 Time Out magazine. Larissa has been published in scores of books, journals=20= =20 and web sites ranging from Newsweek, Ratapallax, poetz.com, the American=20 Translator's Slavfile, and Street News. She is the translator of Russian F= uturist=20 opera Victory over the Sun with art by Kasimir Malevich; the opera was=20 performed at Brooklyn Academy of Music's Next Wave Festival, the Los Angel= es=20 County Museum, the Smithsonian, and internationally. Her poetry CD, The No-= Net =20 World, is available at _http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/shmailo_=20 (http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/shmailo) , at _www.tower.com_ (http://www.tower.= com/) , at St Marks NYC,=20 City Lights SF, and other bookstores. With Chocolate Waters, she teaches th= e=20 class PUBLISH & PERFORM, or PERISH!=20 Chocolate Waters, a pioneer in the art of performance poetry, has been=20 delighting audiences for over three decades. She has toured the U. S. and=20= parts=20 of Canada and is an active participant in the New York poetry circuit. A N= ew=20 York Foundation for the Arts fellow and a recipient of a grant from the=20 Barbara Deming Memorial Fund, Waters has produced three collections of work= which=20 are considered classics of the early women=E2=80=99s movement. Her work has=20= appeared=20 in hundreds of publications, both in print and online Her latest endeavor,=20= a=20 CD entitled Chocolate Waters Uncensored, is available at her web site.=20 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 23:20:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Ciccariello Subject: more out of closeness to her MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Visualizing the unspeakable. http://tinyurl.com/lgo3t -- Peter Ciccariello http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 00:29:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lucas Klein Subject: Re: Nastiness MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Alex, Marcus, and others: I step back into this conversation with a bit of trepidation, because I don't want to come off as defensive. Nonetheless, I see things going on in this conversation that are explicitly against the hopes I put to use when criticizing Paul's obnoxious rant in the first place. When Alex writes "Stop attacking me personally. Address the statement. Either refute it of not, but stick to the point." and then says to Marcus "I sure as hell hope you aren't in a position of importance in our public school or public university systems...if you are, you may well be the reason the GOP is winning the war on education they are waging when they claim our school system is in the toilet" He seems to me both to be sensitive to, and then to be propagating, the very kind of nastiness and aggression I was decrying in the first place. I think we'd all be better off if we tried to avoid these kinds of personal attacks. As poets and readers of poetry, I think we should all be pretty clear on the difference, and yet interrelationship, between form and content. What you say and how you say it interact with each other, and yet are not each other. For the record, Alex, I am not closed to the possibility that Paul, or anyone, is right. In fact, one of the things I wrote to Paul was, "Paul: your behavior embarrasses me, because so often I want to agree with what you say, and yet I am alienated and offended by how you say it." I cannot reconcile my saying that with your assertion that I have "already made up [my mind] they are the ranting and the illogical" or that I "attempt more to attack the person than to argue the point." That's the exact opposite of what I wanted to convey in the first place! My point, very simply, was that Paul, and anyone who reverts to belligerence and insults, is doing the whole argument a disservice. The impropriety of the form gets in the way of any validity of the content. Until we can find an appropriate form to express our content, we will suffer, I think, not only in literature but in life, as well. I say this as someone who is working to address and redress this problem within himself, not only within others. To this I feel that I have to append a thought on the idea that there is no virtue in criticism. Such an idea, Alex, seems completely unpalatable to me. The question is, who is served by such a statement? I think the only people served by such an aversion to criticism are the people in power, and I'm not generally interested in adding to the power that they already have. I'm sure you're not, either, even though I know nothing about you. If there is virtue in anything, then there is virtue in criticism. If there is not virtue in anything, though, then I think we're dealing with a different conversation. One very far from whether belligerence is appropriate in any discussion. Lucas ________________________________________ "There are two ways of knowing, under standing and over bearing. The first is called wisdom. The second is called winning arguments." -Kenneth Rexroth Lucas Klein LKlein@cipherjournal.com 216 Willow Street New Haven, CT 06511 ph: 203 676 0629 www.CipherJournal.com www.CipherJournal.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 00:56:45 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AMBogle2@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Nastiness MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My blog has turned into a garbage pail. I'm translating from lists to blog, from blogs to blog, from blog to lists. Intense anger and distress has been directed at me, I think, by poor men who would rather attack people than deal with their distress; their distress is understandable, but their hatred is not. I was running short stories at the blog, but I have had to interrupt that progress and report on the foul disorders of Generation X. http://annbogle.blogspot.com amb ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 01:17:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: NYC Readings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit what kind of venue are you looking for in nyc? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 17:27:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: help: Entartete Kunst MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit also work by nolde who was extremely pro nazi he was shocked but hey he didn't exactly paaint like david ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 15:38:53 +1000 Reply-To: k.zervos@griffith.edu.au Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "kom9os@bigpond.net.au" Subject: Re: "A Remembrance of Nagasaki" 8 August 1945 Comments: cc: Steve Dalachinsky Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit nagasaki bombed two days after hiroshima. perhaps the usa can justify hiroshima - but nagasaki was definitely an act of terrorism imo komninos ---- Steve Dalachinsky wrote: ============= hiroshima mentioned on tv news tonight and in ny a small gathering w/music in east village only japan remembers well ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 01:24:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Remembrance of Hiroshima 6 August 1945/Remembrance of Nagasaki 8 August 1945 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed komninos--an excellent point that you make, that the bombing of nagasaki an act of terrorism-- the bombing of Hiroshima is always presented as "justified"--yet in the piece i sent two days ago (resent below), it ends with Hiroshima being considered as using the civilian population as guinea pigs in an experimentation for studying the effects of the atom bomb and its radiations-- I was discussing this with my mother on Hiroshima Day and she told me of a biography of Oppenheimer in which previously unreleased US govt documents were made available for the first time--and what they showed was that three months before Hiroshima, the Japanese govt had made an offer of complete surrender with only one condition--that they be allowed to keep their judicial system-- after witnessing the test nuclear explosions at los alamos, the scientists of the Manhattan Project had been so horrified by what they realized the bomb would be capable of, they had approached the govt and implored the project be abandoned--Germany, for whom it had been intended, had surrendered, and Japan was on its final legs--the govt refused aboslutely to put an end to the project and used every means possible to convince the scientists to continue--since many were refugees from the hells unleashed by Japan's allies, and Japan had created hells in China and throughout the Pacific, the scientists were finally coninced they would be saving lives by putting a quicker end to the war--what they weren't told was that the the US had already been offered complete surrender by the Japanese--and the Americans had refused--basically the decision had been made to become the world's first atomic power and also to observe the effects of an atom bomb on a large civilian population--a cold blooded decision was made that had nothing to do with the reasons that have been put forth for decades and which whether one agreed with them or not one had taken as being true-- 200,000 people died in the immediate aftermaths of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and tens of thousands more maimed and dying slowly from mutations of known diseases and appearances of previously unknown ones, carried from one generation to the next--the largest cruelest coldest most calculated experimentation yet done on human beings-- >From: David-Baptiste Chirot >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: "A Remembrance of Hiroshima" 6 August 1945 >Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2006 13:48:08 -0500 > >>From: "David-Baptiste Chirot" > >> >>eerily next to nothing about the anniversary of Hiroshima in the news >>today-- >>i hope everyone has their own way of remembrance, public or private-- >>these quotes from a piece in issue of the Catholic Worker my mother sent >>me--by Pedro Arrupe, SJ >>A Jesuit priest on outskirts of Hisroshima who witnessed the event and set >>up >>emergency makeshift hospital for refugees, then entered city-- >> >> "I was in my room with another preist at 8:15 when suddenly we saw a >>blinding light, like a flash of magnesium. Naturally we were surprised >>and >>jumped up to see waht was happening. As I opened the door which faced the >>city, we haerd a formidable explosion similar to the blast of a hurricane. >>At the same time the doors, windows and walls fell upon us in smithereens >>. >>. . >> "We climbed a hill to get a better view,. Fromthere we could see a >>ruined cit: before us was a decimated Hiroshima . . . >> "I shall never forget my first sight of what was the resultof the >>the >>atomic bomb: a group of young women, eighteen or twenty years old, >>dragged >>themselves alog the road. One had a blister that almost covered her >>chest; >>she had burns across half her face, and a cut in her scalp porbably caused >>by a falling tile, while quantities of blood coursed freely down her face. >>On and on the came, a steady procession numerbing some 150,000. This >>gives >>some idea of the numbing hororror of Hiroshima . . . >> " . . . But there was anoher kind of burn whose cause no one could >>explain. >> I asked one victim: "How were you burnt?' >>I recall his answer, 'I wasn't burnt, Father.' >> 'Then, what happned to you?' >> 'I dont' know. I saw a flash of light followed by a terrible >>explosion >>but nothing happned to me. Then, in half an hour I saw small, superficial >>blisters forming on my skin which soon became infected. But there was no >>fire.' >> "It ws disconcerting. Today, we know that it was the effects of >>the >>infrared radiation which attacks the tissues of the epidermis and the >>ednodermis, but also the muscular tissue. The infections that followed >>resulted in the death of many and confused those treating the victims . . >>. >> "We were to witness more horrible scenes that night. As we >>approached >>the river, the spectacle was awful beyond words. Fleeing the flamesand >>availing themselves of low tide, the people lay across both shores, but in >>the middle of the night the tide began to rise, and the wounded, >>exhasusted >>now and half buried in mud, could not move. The cries of those drowning >>are >>something I shal never forget . . . >> "(A greatly disconcerting evenet)Many who were in the city at the >>moment of the explosion and had suffered no apparaent injuries whatsoever, >>but who, nevertheless, after a few days felt weak and came to us saying >>they >>felt a terrible interior heat, that, perhaps, they had swallowed a >>poisnous >>gas, and in a short time they died . . . >> "Later a girl of thirteen came weeping and sid 'Father, look waht's >>happening to me.' And opening her mouth, she showed me her bleeding gums, >>small sores on the lining of the mouth nd acute pharyngitis. Sheshowed me >>too how her hair was falling out in her hans in bunches. In two days she >>was dead . . . >> "Of the dead, fifty thousnd died the moment of the explosion itself, >>another two hundred thousand during the foloowing weeksm and others much >>later frmwounds and radiation. Yntil the day after the explosion, we did >>not know that we were dealng with the first atom bomb to explode in our >>world. >> "At first, wihout electricity or radio, we were cut off from the >>rest >>of the world. The following day, cars and trains began arriving from Tkyo >>and Osaka with help for Hiroshima. They stayed in the outskirts of the >>city, and when we questioned them as to what had happened, they answered >>very mysteriously: 'The firsta tomic bomb has exploded.' >> "'But what is the atomic bomb?' >> "They would answer: 'The atom bomb is a terrible thing.' >> "'We have seen how terrible itis, but what is it?' And they would >>repeat: 'It's the atomic bomb . . . the atomic bomb.' >> "They knew nothing but the name. It was a new word that was coming >>for >>the first time into the vocabulary. Besides, the knowledge that it was >>the >>atomic bomb that had exploded was no help to us at all from a medical >>standpoint, as no one in the world knew its full effects on the human >>organism. We were, in effect, the first guinea pigs in such an >>experimentation." >> >>That last line especially--after so many horrific ones--is trully >>chilling-- >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! >>http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ >> > >_________________________________________________________________ >Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! >http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ _________________________________________________________________ On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 23:45:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: Nastiness & the end MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Lucas, First, my initial comment was to you, not to Marcus, or to others. = Perhaps a backchannel might have diffused matters earlier, for I did = never intend to insult you. If you took insult at my response to your = comments to Paul, then, clearly, I wrote poorly. =20 Second, Well said here! Third and final...I disagree. =20 Your comments with and, more importantly 'at' Paul serve only to = underscore the idea: you have an opinion and Paul has an opinion...your = criticism of his opinion is virtue-less. To assume otherwise is to = assume your opinion has a greater moral (virtuous) value than his = opinion. And in truth, it does not.=20 On that point, I again utter, there is no virtue in criticism. =20 However, you are accurate in your details. I deserve my lumps for my = role in having moved the discussion to an almost out of control = position. I may have been a tad too sensitive to Marcus' silly = question, and to his follow-on bit of inane and somewhat flippant = remark. (And, YES!!! that is my personal opinion: "silly" question and = "flippant" remark. As the recipient of the communication, I am entitled = to my personal feelings regarding the intent of the author...had Marcus = intended other than to snidely snipe me with his brevity, he'd have = taken the time, as you did here Lucas, to make more than a snitty quip). = Lucas, neither you nor I with each other have dropped to that level of = personal attack in our communications. =20 That level of deterioration only happened between Marcus and Alex...and = I add, begun by Marcus. =20 However, I'm delighted for all that followed, for, in a very minor way, = that which followed demonstrates how easy it is for opinions to command = the moment? And, I stand on my moment: doesn't this demonstrate the = lack of virtue in criticism? But, that's a point of the discussion = which has long been lost.=20 And, Lucas, while your intent with Paul may have been straightforward = and well-intentioned, I hold to my view regarding your commentary. You = have armed the adversary, not disarmed him. And you armed him with your = vitriolic response.=20 We don't need more bullets and ranting from either side of the = discussion regarding the mess in the Middle-East...we need people to sit = and talk more and shoot less. =20 Criticism of the views of your adversary...verbal, or otherwise...only = incubates further hatred and increases the level of criticism. I think = we have seen that here in the minor responses made between Marcus and = me. =20 Sorry, I hold to my view...there is no virtue in that criticism. Lucas, we are not discussing here whether an essayist or a poet = misapplied a metrical pattern in the "X" stanza of his or her Canto. = Critical commentary on that level may hold some value for both the = creator and the audience/readership, but in this instance, there are no = bullets or bombs nor will there be people dying. =20 The world doesn't need more criticism regarding the Middle-East; what we = do need is for the highly opinionated (mostly religious opinions) = adversaries to shut the hell up and actually listen to each other. It = is entirely possible both sides have something of value (not virtue) to = bring to the discussion. =20 Finally, Lucas, I would ask you to examine the base meaning of the word = virtue. Inherent in the context of that word is a critical opinion in = and of itself: "...the quality of doing what is right and avoiding doing = what is wrong." =20 One must demand: by whose standards? If the standards are by the = Western European Christians, one may not necessarily be in harmony with, = say, certain Muslim sects, or even various other religious sects. =20 How does one cope with the issue of the differences in values regarding = the definition of right and wrong to underscore the meaning of the word = virtue? =20 Thank you for your thoughtful comments, and I do wish you well. =20 Let us hold to this point: we disagree.=20 But, we may do so with respect for each other's POV.=20 This may be one of the reasons I don't want to go to heaven...all the = folks there will hold to the same beliefs. Boring? I should think so. = Alex=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Lucas Klein=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 9:29 PM Subject: Re: Nastiness Dear Alex, Marcus, and others: =20 I step back into this conversation with a bit of trepidation, because = I don't want to come off as defensive. Nonetheless, I see things going = on in this conversation that are explicitly against the hopes I put to use = when criticizing Paul's obnoxious rant in the first place. =20 When Alex writes "Stop attacking me personally. Address the = statement. Either refute it of not, but stick to the point." and then says to = Marcus "I sure as hell hope you aren't in a position of importance in our public school or public university systems...if you are, you may well be the = reason the GOP is winning the war on education they are waging when they = claim our school system is in the toilet" He seems to me both to be sensitive = to, and then to be propagating, the very kind of nastiness and aggression I = was decrying in the first place. I think we'd all be better off if we = tried to avoid these kinds of personal attacks. =20 As poets and readers of poetry, I think we should all be pretty clear = on the difference, and yet interrelationship, between form and content. What = you say and how you say it interact with each other, and yet are not each = other. For the record, Alex, I am not closed to the possibility that Paul, or anyone, is right. In fact, one of the things I wrote to Paul was, = "Paul: your behavior embarrasses me, because so often I want to agree with = what you say, and yet I am alienated and offended by how you say it." I cannot reconcile my saying that with your assertion that I have "already made = up [my mind] they are the ranting and the illogical" or that I "attempt = more to attack the person than to argue the point." That's the exact opposite = of what I wanted to convey in the first place! My point, very simply, was = that Paul, and anyone who reverts to belligerence and insults, is doing the = whole argument a disservice. The impropriety of the form gets in the way of = any validity of the content. Until we can find an appropriate form to = express our content, we will suffer, I think, not only in literature but in = life, as well. I say this as someone who is working to address and redress this problem within himself, not only within others. =20 To this I feel that I have to append a thought on the idea that there = is no virtue in criticism. Such an idea, Alex, seems completely unpalatable = to me. The question is, who is served by such a statement? I think the only = people served by such an aversion to criticism are the people in power, and = I'm not generally interested in adding to the power that they already have. = I'm sure you're not, either, even though I know nothing about you. If there is = virtue in anything, then there is virtue in criticism. =20 If there is not virtue in anything, though, then I think we're dealing = with a different conversation. One very far from whether belligerence is appropriate in any discussion. =20 Lucas =20 =20 =20 =20 ________________________________________ "There are two ways of knowing, under standing and over bearing. The first is called wisdom. The second is called winning arguments." -Kenneth Rexroth Lucas Klein > = LKlein@cipherjournal.com 216 Willow Street New Haven, CT 06511 ph: 203 676 0629 > = www.CipherJournal.com = > = www.CipherJournal.blogspot.com =20 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 23:47:16 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Walter Lew Subject: Re: "A Remembrance of Hiroshima" 6 August 1945 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Japanese memory is also terribly selective. Because of the trauma, but also because it bears an imperialist past. Many of the victims in Hiroshima were actually Korean forced labor, although, according to the terminology of Japanese edicts, they had been "mobilized" or had "volunteered," just as so-called "comfort women" (ianfu [Japanese], wianbu [Korean]) supposedly had as well. Some post-war Japanese research groups have estimated that over one-sixth of the dead in Hiroshima were Korean. How is that possible? Ground Zero was, logically enough, the Mitsubishi munitions factories where, logically, the Japanese war machine had deployed its colonial slaves. Ethnic or national distinctions were, of course, beyond the ken of the USA's Little Boy and Fat Man. There is a history of Japanese delegates to international nuclear disarmament and peace events having a hard time sharing the stage/agenda with Korean activists. That cities like Hiroshima were not only victimized, but deadly military-industrial victimizers was too complex a concept to convey to Western anti-nuke and Japanophile audiences. This eventually changed beginning in the late 1980s. I should also mention that, a generation after the end of World War II, it was Japanese organizations more than South Korea that tried to do something significant for surviving victims by establishing a medical clinic and other services. So one could say that Korean memory was also selective. It had a hard time acknowledging the scope and horror of what its civilians had undergone. South Korea was also still a relatively poor country (unlike the more quickly industrializing North) that had a hard time providing any welfare system at all. In some cases, it was the Japanese language, rather than Japan, that "remembers well." Some of the Korean victims could not recall anything about the time unless they were interviewed and spoke in Japanese. Despite all the abuses of "trauma theory" that have occured in recent literary criticism, one of the incisive points that Cathy Caruth made in her analysis of the well-known film "Hiroshima, Mon Amour" is that there is no exact point of death or catastrophe to be remembered. What happened was either too vast and sudden (the bombing) or imperceptible (the German soldier's "moment" of death) to perceive even--so how can it be recalled in the first place? One gradually constructs contexts, engages in post hoc discourses that always miss the truth--or let's one's silence do all the talking. "Operating on a keloid usually stimulates more scar tissue to form, so people with keloids may have been told that there is nothing that can be done to get rid of them." -- Walter K. Lew Dept. of English University of Miami P.O. Box 248145 Coral Gables, FL 33124-4632 Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 00:39:54 -0400 From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: "A Remembrance of Hiroshima" 6 August 1945 hiroshima mentioned on tv news tonight and in ny a small gathering w/music in east village only japan remembers well ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 00:17:28 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: Nastiness & the end In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit alexander saliby wrote: > you have an opinion and Paul has an opinion...your criticism of his opinion is virtue-less. >To assume otherwise is to assume your opinion has a greater moral (virtuous) value than his opinion. And in truth, it does not. Alex, you are completely wrong: 1.) You are equating positive moral value with virtue. That is incorrect. Virtue is related to the idea of goodness and of positive moral value, but they are not interchangable 2.) Even given that you mean to say something like "moral value" when you're talking about virtue, it's not at all to be granted that all opinions have moral values that are equal. In fact, my opinion that, to take a ludicrous example, stealing candy from babies is wrong, is morally superior to the opinion of some other person who holds the opinion that stealing candy from babies is morally neutral, and therefore, my expressing that opinion forcefully is not just virtuous, it is a necessary act. Were I to withhold that opinion and allow that other person to continue with his unchallenged opinion that stealing candy from babies is laudable, I would in fact be culpable in his further expressions of that opinion by stealing candy from poor defenseless babies who, quite possibly, had worked very hard to earn their candy. I think you'll find that argument to be totally unassailable and I hope that by expressing this argument, which is true, and also my opinion, and also a fact, you will be motivated to stop saying foolish things like "There is no virtue in criticism." It's either meaningless or totally false, and really, it doesn't matter how you slice it, my opinion is that people shouldn't go around spouting either false aphorisms or meaningless babble masquerading as true aphorisms. That is, of course, the correct opinion, and I'll be happy to defend it any day of the week should you wish to continue with this, but only after you've carefully read your way through the syllabus of books on ethics, moral philosophy and the philosophy of language that i would be happy to prepare for you. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 07:30:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Daniel f. Bradley" Subject: Re: "A Remembrance of Hiroshima" 6 August 1945 In-Reply-To: <20060808064716.79307.qmail@web31806.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Walter Lew wrote: Japanese memory is also terribly selective. Because of the trauma, but also because it bears an imperialist past. Many of the victims in Hiroshima were actually Korean forced labor, although, according to the terminology of Japanese edicts, they had been "mobilized" or had "volunteered," just as so-called "comfort women" (ianfu [Japanese], wianbu [Korean]) supposedly had as well. Some post-war Japanese research groups have estimated that over one-sixth of the dead in Hiroshima were Korean. How is that possible? Ground Zero was, logically enough, the Mitsubishi munitions factories where, logically, the Japanese war machine had deployed its colonial slaves. Ethnic or national distinctions were, of course, beyond the ken of the USA's Little Boy and Fat Man. There is a history of Japanese delegates to international nuclear disarmament and peace events having a hard time sharing the stage/agenda with Korean activists. That cities like Hiroshima were not only victimized, but deadly military-industrial victimizers was too complex a concept to convey to Western anti-nuke and Japanophile audiences. This eventually changed beginning in the late 1980s. I should also mention that, a generation after the end of World War II, it was Japanese organizations more than South Korea that tried to do something significant for surviving victims by establishing a medical clinic and other services. So one could say that Korean memory was also selective. It had a hard time acknowledging the scope and horror of what its civilians had undergone. South Korea was also still a relatively poor country (unlike the more quickly industrializing North) that had a hard time providing any welfare system at all. In some cases, it was the Japanese language, rather than Japan, that "remembers well." Some of the Korean victims could not recall anything about the time unless they were interviewed and spoke in Japanese. Despite all the abuses of "trauma theory" that have occured in recent literary criticism, one of the incisive points that Cathy Caruth made in her analysis of the well-known film "Hiroshima, Mon Amour" is that there is no exact point of death or catastrophe to be remembered. What happened was either too vast and sudden (the bombing) or imperceptible (the German soldier's "moment" of death) to perceive even--so how can it be recalled in the first place? One gradually constructs contexts, engages in post hoc discourses that always miss the truth--or let's one's silence do all the talking. "Operating on a keloid usually stimulates more scar tissue to form, so people with keloids may have been told that there is nothing that can be done to get rid of them." -- Walter K. Lew Dept. of English University of Miami P.O. Box 248145 Coral Gables, FL 33124-4632 Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 00:39:54 -0400 From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: "A Remembrance of Hiroshima" 6 August 1945 hiroshima mentioned on tv news tonight and in ny a small gathering w/music in east village only japan remembers well helping to kill your literati star since 2004 http://fhole.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 04:37:45 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ////////////////////////// Subject: arrangement [spaces | reductions] Comments: To: FLUXLIST@scribble.com, WRYTING-L@listserv.wvu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit normal: http://www.writingxxxxxxx.com/arrangement.html laptop/ws: http://www.writingxxxxxxx.com/arrangement_1280.html details [can also be viewed by clicking on the arrangement]: http://www.writingxxxxxxx.com/detail9.html http://www.writingxxxxxxx.com/detail9a.html http://www.writingxxxxxxx.com/detail8.html http://www.writingxxxxxxx.com/detail8a.html http://www.writingxxxxxxx.com/detail7.html http://www.writingxxxxxxx.com/detail7a.html http://www.writingxxxxxxx.com/detail6.html http://www.writingxxxxxxx.com/detail6a.html http://www.writingxxxxxxx.com/detail5.html http://www.writingxxxxxxx.com/detail5a.html http://www.writingxxxxxxx.com/detail4.html http://www.writingxxxxxxx.com/detail4a.html http://www.writingxxxxxxx.com/detail3.html http://www.writingxxxxxxx.com/detail3a.html http://www.writingxxxxxxx.com/detail2.html http://www.writingxxxxxxx.com/detail2a.html http://www.writingxxxxxxx.com/detail1.html http://www.writingxxxxxxx.com/detail1a.html --------------------------------- Groups are talking. We´re listening. Check out the handy changes to Yahoo! Groups. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 07:13:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: sue walker Subject: Re: NYC Readings In-Reply-To: <20060808.012605.-70701.27.skyplums@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Actually, somewhere to give a poetry reading. I am Poet Laureate of Alabama. See website suebwalker.com. Fell in love with NY city when visiting my son in July. Sue Walker On Aug 8, 2006, at 12:17 AM, Steve Dalachinsky wrote: > what kind of venue are you looking for in nyc? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 08:49:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: Nastiness & the end Comments: To: alexander saliby In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 7 Aug 2006 at 23:45, alexander saliby wrote: > Your comments with and, more importantly 'at' Paul serve only to > underscore the idea: you have an opinion and Paul has an > opinion...your criticism of his opinion is virtue-less. To assume > otherwise is to assume your opinion has a greater moral (virtuous) > value than his opinion. And in truth, it does not. It may be that two particular opinions are equally virtue-less, but to ascribe virtue-less-ness to ALL opinions is to deny that there is any possibility of either facts or truth. When you say "There is no virtue in criticism" you are denying the possibility of either facts or truth. The consequence of that is a resort to force, and a reliance on force to ensure that the opinions of those who command the force are justified in using force. As I understand your point of view with regard to the Arab/Israeli conflict, this puts you squarely on the side of the Israelis, of approving the use of force to try to control the Palestinians by force. > ... I may have been a tad too sensitive to Marcus' silly > question, and to his follow-on bit of inane and somewhat flippant > remark. (And, YES!!! that is my personal opinion: "silly" question > and "flippant" remark.)... < Yes, to characterise the question or the remark is not to make a personal attack; to say that my remarks are silly is one thing; to say that I am silly is another. There is room within your claim that my remarks are silly for me to try to show that they are not; but there is no room in an accusation that I am silly to demonstrate that I am not. That's why there is a distinction between ad rem and ad hominem -- so that we may engage with one another about our opinions instead of resorting to name-calling. > That level of deterioration only happened between Marcus and > Alex...and I add, begun by Marcus.< I asked whether you recognized the contradiction inherent in criticising someone by saying that all criticism are virtueless. You responded by claiming to be virtueless in a far wider sense. You called yourself names. It was an astonishing performance. > Criticism of the views of your adversary...verbal, or > otherwise...only incubates further hatred and increases the level of > criticism. < I disagree fundamentally with this. I hold that criticism of the VIEWS of your adversary is the essence of civil discourse. What is incendiary, what incubates hatred, is name-calling and ad hominem attack. > Sorry, I hold to my view...there is no virtue in that criticism.< Well, then, to the extent that you criticize other people or their views, you must hold that you have no virtue -- it's that simple. Now, I realize that you have agreed that you have no virtue, that you are too "cynical and opinionated" to claim any virtue whatever, that you are self-described as virtue-less, and that you seem to be proud of it. But why are you proud to be virtue-less? What is it about lack of virtue that seems so attractive to you that you not only claim it but embrace it? >... Inherent in the context of [virtue] is a critical > opinion in and of itself: "...the quality of doing what is right and > avoiding doing what is wrong." > One must demand: by whose standards? If the standards are by the > Western European Christians, one may not necessarily be in harmony > with, say, certain Muslim sects, or even various other religious > sects. > How does one cope with the issue of the differences in values > regarding the definition of right and wrong to underscore the > meaning of the word virtue?< By recognizing the context within which the word "virtue" is used -- just the same way one copes with the issues of differences in meaning for any other word, of course. Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 09:21:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Burt Kimmelman Subject: James L. Weil Comments: cc: kimmelma@NJIT.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A few further words about Jim Weil: I first met Jim Weil, after being in correspondence with him for some = time, about twenty years ago at an exhibit of William Bronk papers at = Columbia University. He was a warm and gentle man, and wonderfully = smart. We continuied to correspond until shortly before his demise. I = was lucky enough to be the recipient of his gorgeous small book = productions (he was a true lover of books, and so he crafted beautiful = ones), collectors' items every one,--collections of his verse, the poems = of Bronk, and of others. I was lucky enough to have a blurb of Jim's on = the back of a chapbook of mine, First Life. He was a good friend. And as = has been said--I'll simply say amen to it--he is a very important = chapter of our literary history. Jim loved quiet beauty, modesty. His = poems, some of them, are small gems. I had thought not to say anything since Ed Foster had posted what I = regarded as a fitting obit. But now I see that I should have. I'll miss = Jim keenly. Burt Kimmelman Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 07:39:11 -0700 From: David Baratier Subject: James L. Weil and the Elizabeth Press I find it tough to believe that no one here has something to say about = Jim Weil who is definitely one the most important American poetry = publishers of the 1960's and 70's. While I might guess that from this = list only Ed Foster, Jenny Penberthy and myself (& maybe David = Kirschenbaum) have had direct contact with him (as others I know are not = subscribed here), it seems important to mention his contribution as my = work brought him to his publishing, not his poetry. =20 =20 Weil ran the Elizabeth Press from the early 1960's until 1982; during = this period he published the first collections by Simon Perchik, Carroll = Arnett, and John Taggart. Some of his other authors included Lorine = Niedecker, Larry Eigner, Ted Enslin, Anselm Hollo, and John = Perlman(whose first book he might also have published). From the early = 60's to the late 70's he was the primary publisher of William Bronk, Cid = Corman, Simon Perchik, John Perlman and Carroll Arnett. Life Supports by = William Bronk, when re-issued by another press, won the National Book = Award in 1982. =20 For me his importance was what it lead me towards, reading _Which Hand = Holds the Brother_ by Simon Perchik lead me to re-issuing all of his = Elizabeth Books. Reading Larry Eigner's Elizabeth books led me toward = reading a publication called L=3DA=3DN=3DG=3DU=3DA=3DG=3DE which had a = feature about him, which in turn lead me to reading and eventually = publishing Bob Grenier. My extensive work with editing Hands Collected = The Books of Simon Perchik (which includes six books from Elizabeth = Press) as well as a Collected of Carroll Arnett (which also includes six = books from Elizabeth) and talks with Cid Corman about issuing a Selected = (including probably a dozen of Elizabeth books, which was eventually = released by New Directions) are what brought me in contact with him.=20 He also published 18 issues of Elizabeth between 1961 and 1971. Some = of their better known authors were Diane Wakoski, Cid Corman, George = Oppen, Ron Offen, Lewis Turco, Richard Crashaw, William Stafford, Simon = Perchik, Felix Stefanile, David Ignatow, Carroll Arnett, Loring = Williams, Anselm Hollo, Robert Creeley, John Taggart, George Bowering, = Paul Blackburn as well as many others. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org ------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 06:46:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adam Fieled Subject: Apology to Frank S. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I'd like to publicly apologize to Frank Sherlock for insinuating, in yesterday's post, that he had something to do with the rumours circulating about me. I now know that in fact he had nothing to do with these rumours, and, if anything, was defending me against them. Sorry, Frank, for the misunderstanding, and I'm glad we got this straightened out. Adam Fieled afieled@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 00:14:22 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: Nastiness MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable and for my anger, I owe you and all an apology. I dislike anger; the = emotion tends to be too serious a controlling element. Sorry! I'll = begin drinking more an writing less. Oh, and, AM, great blog! Alex=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: AMBogle2@AOL.COM=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 9:56 PM Subject: Re: Nastiness My blog has turned into a garbage pail. I'm translating from lists to = blog,=20 from blogs to blog, from blog to lists. Intense anger and distress = has been=20 directed at me, I think, by poor men who would rather attack people = than deal=20 with their distress; their distress is understandable, but their = hatred is not.=20 I was running short stories at the blog, but I have had to interrupt = that=20 progress and report on the foul disorders of Generation X. =20 http://annbogle.blogspot.com amb ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 12:08:10 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: susan maurer Subject: oregon literary review Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed apopropos of the online /print discussion does anyone have a snail mail address for ols> my typing is such that email submission must be done by kindky friends and it'sa too hot in ny to bother anyone. susan maurer _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 12:19:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: susan maurer Subject: feminists with low cut blouses 8-13 at 5pm at bpc nyc Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed just a reminder to haul youself to the above mentioned reading this sunday. this one is coed and heres hooping its as fun and substantive at the last one. susan maurer _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 12:23:10 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: Nastiness MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain It has recently been suggested to me by Joe Amato that nobody is spreading rumors about me backchannel. Joe will be as surprised to hear this as I was. I apologize to all. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 09:33:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lou Rowan Subject: Re: James L. Weil In-Reply-To: <013b01c6baed$89d486a0$1912eb80@Burt> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed A small but maybe characteristic detail about Jim: I met him late 60's when we were printing many of the same authors, especially Ted Enslin. His workspace in his New Rochelle house was the attic, and his desk faced a crawlspace in which he had placed a bust of Keats. Lou >From: Burt Kimmelman >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: James L. Weil >Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 09:21:20 -0400 > >A few further words about Jim Weil: > >I first met Jim Weil, after being in correspondence with him for some time, >about twenty years ago at an exhibit of William Bronk papers at Columbia >University. He was a warm and gentle man, and wonderfully smart. We >continuied to correspond until shortly before his demise. I was lucky >enough to be the recipient of his gorgeous small book productions (he was a >true lover of books, and so he crafted beautiful ones), collectors' items >every one,--collections of his verse, the poems of Bronk, and of others. I >was lucky enough to have a blurb of Jim's on the back of a chapbook of >mine, First Life. He was a good friend. And as has been said--I'll simply >say amen to it--he is a very important chapter of our literary history. Jim >loved quiet beauty, modesty. His poems, some of them, are small gems. > >I had thought not to say anything since Ed Foster had posted what I >regarded as a fitting obit. But now I see that I should have. I'll miss Jim >keenly. > >Burt Kimmelman > > >Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 07:39:11 -0700 >From: David Baratier >Subject: James L. Weil and the Elizabeth Press > >I find it tough to believe that no one here has something to say about Jim >Weil who is definitely one the most important American poetry publishers of >the 1960's and 70's. While I might guess that from this list only Ed >Foster, Jenny Penberthy and myself (& maybe David Kirschenbaum) have had >direct contact with him (as others I know are not subscribed here), it >seems important to mention his contribution as my work brought him to his >publishing, not his poetry. > > Weil ran the Elizabeth Press from the early 1960's until 1982; during >this period he published the first collections by Simon Perchik, Carroll >Arnett, and John Taggart. Some of his other authors included Lorine >Niedecker, Larry Eigner, Ted Enslin, Anselm Hollo, and John Perlman(whose >first book he might also have published). From the early 60's to the late >70's he was the primary publisher of William Bronk, Cid Corman, Simon >Perchik, John Perlman and Carroll Arnett. Life Supports by William Bronk, >when re-issued by another press, won the National Book Award in 1982. > > For me his importance was what it lead me towards, reading _Which Hand >Holds the Brother_ by Simon Perchik lead me to re-issuing all of his >Elizabeth Books. Reading Larry Eigner's Elizabeth books led me toward >reading a publication called L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E which had a feature about him, >which in turn lead me to reading and eventually publishing Bob Grenier. My >extensive work with editing Hands Collected The Books of Simon Perchik >(which includes six books from Elizabeth Press) as well as a Collected of >Carroll Arnett (which also includes six books from Elizabeth) and talks >with Cid Corman about issuing a Selected (including probably a dozen of >Elizabeth books, which was eventually released by New Directions) are what >brought me in contact with him. > > He also published 18 issues of Elizabeth between 1961 and 1971. Some of >their better known authors were Diane Wakoski, Cid Corman, George Oppen, >Ron Offen, Lewis Turco, Richard Crashaw, William Stafford, Simon Perchik, >Felix Stefanile, David Ignatow, Carroll Arnett, Loring Williams, Anselm >Hollo, Robert Creeley, John Taggart, George Bowering, Paul Blackburn as >well as many others. > > >Be well > >David Baratier, Editor > >Pavement Saw Press >PO Box 6291 >Columbus, OH 43206 >http://pavementsaw.org > >------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 12:57:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Ciccariello Subject: Re: Remembrance of Hiroshima 6 August 1945/Remembrance of Nagasaki 8 August 1945 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Some very, very sobering quotes here: http://www.doug-long.com/quotes.htm "...the Japanese were ready to surrender and it wasn't necessary to hit them with that awful thing." - *Ike on Ike*, Newsweek, 11/11/63 Norman Cousins was a consultant to General MacArthur during the American occupation of Japan. Cousins writes of his conversations with MacArthur, "MacArthur's views about the decision to drop the atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were starkly different from what the general public supposed." He continues, "When I asked General MacArthur about the decision to drop the bomb, I was surprised to learn he had not even been consulted. What, I asked, would his advice have been? He replied that he saw no military justification for the dropping of the bomb. The war might have ended weeks earlier, he said, if the United States had agreed, as it later did anyway, to the retention of the institution of the emperor." Norman Cousins, *The Pathology of Power*, pg. 65, 70-71. -Peter On 8/8/06, David-Baptiste Chirot wrote: > > komninos--an excellent point that you make, that the bombing of nagasaki > an > act of terrorism-- > > the bombing of Hiroshima is always presented as > "justified"--yet in the piece i sent two days ago (resent below), it ends > with Hiroshima being considered as using the civilian population as guinea > pigs in an experimentation for studying the effects of the atom bomb and > its > radiations-- > I was discussing this with my mother on Hiroshima Day and > she > told me of a biography of Oppenheimer in which previously unreleased US > govt > documents were made available for the first time--and what they showed was > that three months before Hiroshima, the Japanese govt had made an offer of > complete surrender with only one condition--that they be allowed to keep > their judicial system-- > after witnessing the test nuclear explosions at los alamos, the > scientists of the Manhattan Project had been so horrified by what they > realized the bomb would be capable of, they had approached the govt and > implored the project be abandoned--Germany, for whom it had been intended, > had surrendered, and Japan was on its final legs--the govt refused > aboslutely to put an end to the project and used every means possible to > convince the scientists to continue--since many were refugees from the > hells > unleashed by Japan's allies, and Japan had created hells in China and > throughout the Pacific, the scientists were finally coninced they would be > saving lives by putting a quicker end to the war--what they weren't told > was > that the the US had already been offered complete surrender by the > Japanese--and the Americans had refused--basically the decision had been > made to become the world's first atomic power and also to observe the > effects of an atom bomb on a large civilian population--a cold blooded > decision was made that had nothing to do with the reasons that have been > put > forth for decades and which whether one agreed with them or not one had > taken as being true-- > 200,000 people died in the immediate aftermaths of Hiroshima and > Nagasaki, and tens of thousands more maimed and dying slowly from > mutations > of known diseases and appearances of previously unknown ones, carried from > one generation to the next--the largest cruelest coldest most calculated > experimentation yet done on human beings-- > > > > > >From: David-Baptiste Chirot > >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >Subject: "A Remembrance of Hiroshima" 6 August 1945 > >Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2006 13:48:08 -0500 > > > >>From: "David-Baptiste Chirot" > > > >> > >>eerily next to nothing about the anniversary of Hiroshima in the news > >>today-- > >>i hope everyone has their own way of remembrance, public or private-- > >>these quotes from a piece in issue of the Catholic Worker my mother sent > >>me--by Pedro Arrupe, SJ > >>A Jesuit priest on outskirts of Hisroshima who witnessed the event and > set > >>up > >>emergency makeshift hospital for refugees, then entered city-- > >> > >> "I was in my room with another preist at 8:15 when suddenly we saw > a > >>blinding light, like a flash of magnesium. Naturally we were surprised > >>and > >>jumped up to see waht was happening. As I opened the door which faced > the > >>city, we haerd a formidable explosion similar to the blast of a > hurricane. > >>At the same time the doors, windows and walls fell upon us in > smithereens > >>. > >>. . > >> "We climbed a hill to get a better view,. Fromthere we could see > a > >>ruined cit: before us was a decimated Hiroshima . . . > >> "I shall never forget my first sight of what was the resultof the > >>the > >>atomic bomb: a group of young women, eighteen or twenty years old, > >>dragged > >>themselves alog the road. One had a blister that almost covered her > >>chest; > >>she had burns across half her face, and a cut in her scalp porbably > caused > >>by a falling tile, while quantities of blood coursed freely down her > face. > >>On and on the came, a steady procession numerbing some 150,000. This > >>gives > >>some idea of the numbing hororror of Hiroshima . . . > >> " . . . But there was anoher kind of burn whose cause no one could > >>explain. > >> I asked one victim: "How were you burnt?' > >>I recall his answer, 'I wasn't burnt, Father.' > >> 'Then, what happned to you?' > >> 'I dont' know. I saw a flash of light followed by a terrible > >>explosion > >>but nothing happned to me. Then, in half an hour I saw small, > superficial > >>blisters forming on my skin which soon became infected. But there was > no > >>fire.' > >> "It ws disconcerting. Today, we know that it was the effects of > >>the > >>infrared radiation which attacks the tissues of the epidermis and the > >>ednodermis, but also the muscular tissue. The infections that followed > >>resulted in the death of many and confused those treating the victims . > . > >>. > >> "We were to witness more horrible scenes that night. As we > >>approached > >>the river, the spectacle was awful beyond words. Fleeing the flamesand > >>availing themselves of low tide, the people lay across both shores, but > in > >>the middle of the night the tide began to rise, and the wounded, > >>exhasusted > >>now and half buried in mud, could not move. The cries of those drowning > >>are > >>something I shal never forget . . . > >> "(A greatly disconcerting evenet)Many who were in the city at > the > >>moment of the explosion and had suffered no apparaent injuries > whatsoever, > >>but who, nevertheless, after a few days felt weak and came to us saying > >>they > >>felt a terrible interior heat, that, perhaps, they had swallowed a > >>poisnous > >>gas, and in a short time they died . . . > >> "Later a girl of thirteen came weeping and sid 'Father, look > waht's > >>happening to me.' And opening her mouth, she showed me her bleeding > gums, > >>small sores on the lining of the mouth nd acute pharyngitis. Sheshowed > me > >>too how her hair was falling out in her hans in bunches. In two days > she > >>was dead . . . > >> "Of the dead, fifty thousnd died the moment of the explosion > itself, > >>another two hundred thousand during the foloowing weeksm and others much > >>later frmwounds and radiation. Yntil the day after the explosion, we > did > >>not know that we were dealng with the first atom bomb to explode in our > >>world. > >> "At first, wihout electricity or radio, we were cut off from the > >>rest > >>of the world. The following day, cars and trains began arriving from > Tkyo > >>and Osaka with help for Hiroshima. They stayed in the outskirts of the > >>city, and when we questioned them as to what had happened, they answered > >>very mysteriously: 'The firsta tomic bomb has exploded.' > >> "'But what is the atomic bomb?' > >> "They would answer: 'The atom bomb is a terrible thing.' > >> "'We have seen how terrible itis, but what is it?' And they > would > >>repeat: 'It's the atomic bomb . . . the atomic bomb.' > >> "They knew nothing but the name. It was a new word that was > coming > >>for > >>the first time into the vocabulary. Besides, the knowledge that it was > >>the > >>atomic bomb that had exploded was no help to us at all from a medical > >>standpoint, as no one in the world knew its full effects on the human > >>organism. We were, in effect, the first guinea pigs in such an > >>experimentation." > >> > >>That last line especially--after so many horrific ones--is trully > >>chilling-- > >> > >>_________________________________________________________________ > >>Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's > FREE! > >>http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > >> > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's > FREE! > >http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > > _________________________________________________________________ > On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to > get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement > -- http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 14:08:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Phil Primeau Subject: DIRT #3 RELEASE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hot off the presses: Dirt #3. The first couple dozen were mailed out today. Plenty more where that came from, so don't hesitate to drop me a line. I am, however, missing a handful of important addresses. If you contributed and don't receive a copy within the next few days, send me an e-mail and I'll get one off to you ASAP. There'll be another printing next week, so there's no shortage. Issue #3 features interviews with Dan Waber and Aram Saroyan and reviews of recent work by John M. Bennett and Nico Vassilakis. Poetry and short prose by: +Julie Kizershot +Michael Leddy, +Steve Potter +K.S. Ernst +Andy Gricevich +Avery Burns +Francis Raven +Tom Gilroy +David-Baptiste Chirot +Sheila E. Murphy +Richard Kostelanetz +David E. Patton +Brian Zimmer +Jukka-Pekka Kervinen +Lawrence Upton +David Baratier +Jason Lynn +Jesse Ferguson +Denise Siegel +Nicole Proctor +Jill Stenge +Andrew Topel +Shin Yu Pai +Nick-e Melville +Mark Young +Caleb Puckett +Nico Vassilakis (Series) +Jennifer Bartlett (Series) Dirt is a free publication of minimalist poetry and poetics. Submissions -- both textual and visual -- are welcome year 'round. Issues #1 and #2 will soon be available online. #3 will have its electronic debut sometime in late autumn. Check out the PERSISTENCIA website (http://persistenciapress.tripod.com) for more information. Phil Primeau http://dirt-zine.tripod.com http://persistenciapress.tripod.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 14:40:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: arrangement [spaces | reductions] In-Reply-To: <20060808113745.29820.qmail@web37610.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit do fuzzy unreadable words have meaning? On Aug 8, 2006, at 6:37 AM, ////////////////////////// wrote: > normal: > http://www.writingxxxxxxx.com/arrangement.html "The word is the first stereotype." Isidore Isou, 1947. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 12:47:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ////////////////////////// Subject: Re: arrangement [spaces | reductions] In-Reply-To: <40593BC2-2AB6-4B89-98FC-08282607E1D8@mwt.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit click around to view details - click the details to view other details - not that these things have so much to do with each other mIEKAL aND wrote: do fuzzy unreadable words have meaning? On Aug 8, 2006, at 6:37 AM, ////////////////////////// wrote: > normal: > http://www.writingxxxxxxx.com/arrangement.html "The word is the first stereotype." Isidore Isou, 1947. --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 14:47:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Fwd: [NEOLOGISMS] A month of neologisms Comments: To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" , ubuweb@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit July was a month of making new neologisms for me. Resist generic english & use these in a sentence. ~mIEKAL Begin forwarded message: > From: mIEKAL aND > Date: August 7, 2006 10:19:27 PM CDT > To: NEOLOGISMS@YAHOOGROUPS.COM > Subject: [NEOLOGISMS] A month of neologisms > Reply-To: NEOLOGISMS@yahoogroups.com > > ponkpunket > the reverse of stealing from strangers > 2006-08-06 > > splatterdox > keep it coming despite all contradictions > 2006-08-01 > > skimplex > the few choice morsels gleaned from a complex system > 2006-07-29 > > texternality > the indescribable world beyond the text > 2006-07-29 > > googlesmirk > having the final say in an argument verified by a google search > 2006-07-22 > > textalien > The things we say that do not originate from within. > 2006-07-22 > > mournth > This is your chance, your one chance, to make the right move. > 2006-07-20 > > blorsque > beet soup made with cabbage and vinegar > 2006-07-18 > > pulikixa > There's nothing you can do about it. Just start over from the > beginning. A common routine for Windows users. > 2006-07-14 > > thwelk > don't trouble trouble till trouble troubles you > 2006-07-14 > > squabulition > a very old trick for inducing belief among a squad of skeptics > 2006-07-14 > > lithokon > naturally occurring signs & glyphs found on stones > 2006-07-14 > > futuristry > moving forward in time with a sense of purpose and free of doubt > 2006-07-14 > > blendmodern > post mortem post modern > 2006-07-13 > > popmanteau > all trends all styles simultaneously > 2006-07-13 > > trepiliciosity > the feeling of anticipation about an unpredictable event > 2006-07-13 > > xexoxiality > The recursive possibilities of replication in multiple dimensions. > 2006-07-07 > > googlesmuck > People whose lives are ruled by a search engine algorhythm > 2006-07-04 > > compunicator > the next great patented technology > 2006-07-02 > > troglabyte > when info-bytes were measured in trees and rocks > 2006-07-02 > > stoperate > stop and get busy > 2006-07-02 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 16:04:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Daniel f. Bradley" Subject: fhole # 9 In-Reply-To: <380.9a54671.320a3a6f@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit fhole # 9 bakker KARL berg J bird RYAN books JENNIFER chirot DAVID-BAPATISTE cone JON copithorne JUDITH cravan ARTHUR evason GREG farrell MICHAEL fujino DAVID hryciuk MARSHALL jorgensen ALEXANDER macdonald JOHN W mcclory LYNN mcleod JEREMY morin GUSTAVE priddle ROSS quarles LANNY raven FRANCIS read ROB thurston KEVIN topel ANDREW vassilakis NICO rule the same always send me a copupleof bunks and youy can get one unitl they are gone we love trade helping to kill your literati star since 2004 http://fhole.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 21:50:01 +0100 Reply-To: wild honey press Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: wild honey press Subject: Re: [NEOLOGISMS] A month of neologisms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for these mIEKAL. I love skimplex. Gotta use that one. Q. How do feel about lithikon, an i for an o. I can give reasons, I'm ashamed to say. Hey, what about lithocon for a rock concert where the band mimes to a tape? best Randolph ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 16:55:33 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: C'mon kids, let's go to Army World! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit C'mon kids, let's go to Army World! My friend Matt McGoldrick just sent me this! IT'S NUTS! _http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/08/08/military.theme.park.ap/index.html_ (http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/08/08/military.theme.park.ap/index.html) CAConrad is the author of Deviant Propulsion (Soft Skull Press, 2006) for poem samples from the book go to: _http://CAConrad.blogspot.com_ (http://caconrad.blogspot.com/) "Those who restrain desire, do so because theirs is weak enough to be restrained...." --William Blake for PhillySound: NEW POETRY: _http://PhillySound.blogspot.com_ (http://phillysound.blogspot.com/) for CAConrad's tarot services:_ http://LightOfLakshmi.blogspot.com_ (http://lightoflakshmi.blogspot.com/) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 16:59:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kevin thurston Subject: Re: C'mon kids, let's go to Army World! In-Reply-To: <37d.8f9a7fd.320a5445@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline conrad, should they build it, i'll met you there for the grand opening. we'll see if they allow guys in the military theme park. On 8/8/06, Craig Allen Conrad wrote: > > > C'mon kids, let's go to Army World! > > My friend Matt McGoldrick just sent me this! IT'S NUTS! > _http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/08/08/military.theme.park.ap/index.html_ > (http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/08/08/military.theme.park.ap/index.html) > > > CAConrad is the author of Deviant Propulsion (Soft Skull Press, 2006) > for poem samples from the book go to: _http://CAConrad.blogspot.com_ > (http://caconrad.blogspot.com/) > "Those who restrain desire, do so because theirs is weak enough to be > restrained...." > --William Blake > for PhillySound: NEW POETRY: _http://PhillySound.blogspot.com_ > (http://phillysound.blogspot.com/) > for CAConrad's tarot services:_ http://LightOfLakshmi.blogspot.com_ > (http://lightoflakshmi.blogspot.com/) > -- http://fuckinglies.blogspot.com http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/thepixelplus/nhdoublewide.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 17:29:17 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Phil Primeau Subject: Re: C'mon kids, let's go to Army World! In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline "Try our famed guessing game 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' . . ." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 14:30:06 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: Fwd: [NEOLOGISMS] A month of neologisms In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed mIEKAL I like these, and most definitely want to incorporate a few of them into my daily speech habits but i have some questions: 1.) splatterdox. I assume that following normal morphological conventions, the plural would be "splatterdoxes?" My real question though, is can we abstract from splatterdox the noun, splatterdoxical the adjective? Maybe more interesting: what sorts of beliefs might amount splatterdoxy? 2.) pulikixa: is this a noun or an interjection or both. I think it should be both. Or maybe, just maybe, it's an irregular adverb, and one can build pulikixa, and the noun form would be pulik. Can we then add the ixa suffix to googlesmirk to get googlesmirkixa as the adverbal form and say something like "I ponkpunketted googlesmikiza all the squabulition out of my mother's new-fangled Splatterdoxy?" On Tue, 8 Aug 2006, mIEKAL aND wrote: > July was a month of making new neologisms for me. Resist generic english & use > these in a sentence. > > ~mIEKAL > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: mIEKAL aND >> Date: August 7, 2006 10:19:27 PM CDT >> To: NEOLOGISMS@YAHOOGROUPS.COM >> Subject: [NEOLOGISMS] A month of neologisms >> Reply-To: NEOLOGISMS@yahoogroups.com >> >> ponkpunket >> the reverse of stealing from strangers >> 2006-08-06 >> >> splatterdox >> keep it coming despite all contradictions >> 2006-08-01 >> >> skimplex >> the few choice morsels gleaned from a complex system >> 2006-07-29 >> >> texternality >> the indescribable world beyond the text >> 2006-07-29 >> >> googlesmirk >> having the final say in an argument verified by a google search >> 2006-07-22 >> >> textalien >> The things we say that do not originate from within. >> 2006-07-22 >> >> mournth >> This is your chance, your one chance, to make the right move. >> 2006-07-20 >> >> blorsque >> beet soup made with cabbage and vinegar >> 2006-07-18 >> >> pulikixa >> There's nothing you can do about it. Just start over from the >> beginning. A common routine for Windows users. >> 2006-07-14 >> >> thwelk >> don't trouble trouble till trouble troubles you >> 2006-07-14 >> >> squabulition >> a very old trick for inducing belief among a squad of skeptics >> 2006-07-14 >> >> lithokon >> naturally occurring signs & glyphs found on stones >> 2006-07-14 >> >> futuristry >> moving forward in time with a sense of purpose and free of doubt >> 2006-07-14 >> >> blendmodern >> post mortem post modern >> 2006-07-13 >> >> popmanteau >> all trends all styles simultaneously >> 2006-07-13 >> >> trepiliciosity >> the feeling of anticipation about an unpredictable event >> 2006-07-13 >> >> xexoxiality >> The recursive possibilities of replication in multiple dimensions. >> 2006-07-07 >> >> googlesmuck >> People whose lives are ruled by a search engine algorhythm >> 2006-07-04 >> >> compunicator >> the next great patented technology >> 2006-07-02 >> >> troglabyte >> when info-bytes were measured in trees and rocks >> 2006-07-02 >> >> stoperate >> stop and get busy >> 2006-07-02 > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 16:52:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: Re: Online journals vs. Print In-Reply-To: <20060806180017.88856.qmail@web53901.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable so what have we got here?=20 1. online journals / blogs / etc. 2. print journals / mags / etc.=20 I've been waiting for someone to bring up chap books -- where do they fall in the current verse taxonomy? the chap books I've seen (every one a delight) since I jumped on this list have been virtual...=20 as a typesetter, I know something of the nightmares involved when it comes time to convert MS into the final to-press version of the text... hard copy at least gives the author a chance to convey how he or she wants their text to appear -- unfortunately, my authors have been a bit too green to care how I set their books for 'em... only the priestess of the Ancient Egyptian gods fretted much about how I laid out her pages... I do all of my own submissions on-line, which is fast and convenient and I don't have to think twice (does art therefore suffer? better it than me)... but I try to make things easier by formatting as simply as is reasonable...=20 it helps that I have a healthy appreciation for unpredictability as a midwife to my writing -- usually the effect of strangers mishandling my work makes it a lot better, or at least different and interesting (to my current thinking)... all ales alia alipes alesco aleatoria, tl -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of AG Jorgensen Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 13:00 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Online journals vs. Print Just a whopping thanks to all. Wonderful, wonderful responses. This kind of information certainly helps to give me a better perspective on submitting work. Too, I hope it might help others. Best, AGJ --- Thomas savage wrote: > I've been submitting almost totally to online > journals for the past year and a half and find it > much less troublesome than sending to print journals > through the mail. Generally the wait, both for > decision and publication, is much less with online > zines. This is the main seductive factor behind my > switch, after thirt years of publishing in print > journals. Still, as some of the print journals I > submitted to over two years ago have recently, at > long last, found their way into my mailbox, I am > reminded of the joy of holding the work in my hands, > the joy of personal possession of a physical object, > which online does not provide. So I suspect that at > some time, I will start the SASE grind with print > magazines again. Regards, Tom Savage >=20 > AG Jorgensen wrote: I know > that the final answer is not one of either this > or that, but have witnessed some writers prefer this > over that. Too, there are those readers who are of > the > same pattern of choice. Lots of useful responses > have > been given in the past related to both and I'm > hoping > that this question might further illuminate the > issue > for me.=20 >=20 > Much of my work, and I've only submitted for about > two > years, has thusfar appeared in print, but then > sometime there's this feeling that online is where > it > is at - sorta like MTV, one wonders, was a while ago > - > and both print and online, as you know, seem to be > in > competition. A tap dancer is how I often feel. >=20 > AJ >=20 > --- > Good art however "immoral" is wholly a thing of > virtue. Good art can NOT be immoral. By good art I > mean art that bears true witness, I mean the art > that is most precise. -- Ezra Pound >=20 > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around=20 > http://mail.yahoo.com=20 >=20 >=20 > =09 > --------------------------------- > How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low > PC-to-Phone call rates. >=20 --- "Our best security, our only security, is in the world of ideas, and I sense a slight foreboding," he said.-- Justice Anthony Kennedy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around=20 http://mail.yahoo.com=20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 17:06:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Fwd: [NEOLOGISMS] A month of neologisms In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" i thought it'd be splatterdoxa? as in doxa? ponkpunket sounds like an East Coast indigenous word. There are fabulous placenames like Winnepesaukee, Weweantic, Woonsocket, Ponkapoag and Succonesset. At 2:30 PM -0700 8/8/06, Jason Quackenbush wrote: >mIEKAL >I like these, and most definitely want to incorporate a few of them >into my daily speech habits but i have some questions: > >1.) splatterdox. I assume that following normal morphological >conventions, the plural would be "splatterdoxes?" My real question >though, is can we abstract from splatterdox the noun, >splatterdoxical the adjective? Maybe more interesting: what sorts of >beliefs might amount splatterdoxy? > >2.) pulikixa: is this a noun or an interjection or both. I think it >should be both. Or maybe, just maybe, it's an irregular adverb, and >one can build pulikixa, and the noun form would be pulik. Can we >then add the ixa suffix to googlesmirk to get googlesmirkixa as the >adverbal form and say something like "I ponkpunketted googlesmikiza >all the squabulition out of my mother's new-fangled Splatterdoxy?" > > >On Tue, 8 Aug 2006, mIEKAL aND wrote: > >>July was a month of making new neologisms for me. Resist generic >>english & use these in a sentence. >> >>~mIEKAL >> >>Begin forwarded message: >> >>>From: mIEKAL aND >>>Date: August 7, 2006 10:19:27 PM CDT >>>To: NEOLOGISMS@YAHOOGROUPS.COM >>>Subject: [NEOLOGISMS] A month of neologisms >>>Reply-To: NEOLOGISMS@yahoogroups.com >>> >>>ponkpunket >>>the reverse of stealing from strangers >>>2006-08-06 >>> >>>splatterdox >>>keep it coming despite all contradictions >>>2006-08-01 >>> >>>skimplex >>>the few choice morsels gleaned from a complex system >>>2006-07-29 >>> >>>texternality >>>the indescribable world beyond the text >>>2006-07-29 >>> >>>googlesmirk >>>having the final say in an argument verified by a google search >>>2006-07-22 >>> >>>textalien >>>The things we say that do not originate from within. >>>2006-07-22 >>> >>>mournth >>>This is your chance, your one chance, to make the right move. >>>2006-07-20 >>> >>>blorsque >>>beet soup made with cabbage and vinegar >>>2006-07-18 >>> >>>pulikixa >>>There's nothing you can do about it. Just start over from the >>>beginning. A common routine for Windows users. >>>2006-07-14 >>> >>>thwelk >>>don't trouble trouble till trouble troubles you >>>2006-07-14 >>> >>>squabulition >>>a very old trick for inducing belief among a squad of skeptics >>>2006-07-14 >>> >>>lithokon >>>naturally occurring signs & glyphs found on stones >>>2006-07-14 >>> >>>futuristry >>>moving forward in time with a sense of purpose and free of doubt >>>2006-07-14 >>> >>>blendmodern >>>post mortem post modern >>>2006-07-13 >>> >>>popmanteau >>>all trends all styles simultaneously >>>2006-07-13 >>> >>>trepiliciosity >>>the feeling of anticipation about an unpredictable event >>>2006-07-13 >>> >>>xexoxiality >>>The recursive possibilities of replication in multiple dimensions. >>>2006-07-07 >>> >>>googlesmuck >>>People whose lives are ruled by a search engine algorhythm >>>2006-07-04 >>> >>>compunicator >>>the next great patented technology >>>2006-07-02 >>> >>>troglabyte >>>when info-bytes were measured in trees and rocks >>>2006-07-02 >>> >>>stoperate >>>stop and get busy >>>2006-07-02 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 18:42:47 -0400 Reply-To: pamelabeth@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pam Grossman Subject: dtv@MWT.NET Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit love 'em. wouldn't blorsque, tho, have lobster? or i guess maybe that would be a lobster blorsque, and not all blorsques would have it. what do i know; i'm not a cook. best, pam -----Original Message----- >From: mIEKAL aND >Sent: Aug 8, 2006 3:47 PM >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Fwd: [NEOLOGISMS] A month of neologisms > >July was a month of making new neologisms for me. Resist generic >english & use these in a sentence. > >~mIEKAL > >Begin forwarded message: > >> From: mIEKAL aND >> Date: August 7, 2006 10:19:27 PM CDT >> To: NEOLOGISMS@YAHOOGROUPS.COM >> Subject: [NEOLOGISMS] A month of neologisms >> Reply-To: NEOLOGISMS@yahoogroups.com >> >> ponkpunket >> the reverse of stealing from strangers >> 2006-08-06 >> >> splatterdox >> keep it coming despite all contradictions >> 2006-08-01 >> >> skimplex >> the few choice morsels gleaned from a complex system >> 2006-07-29 >> >> texternality >> the indescribable world beyond the text >> 2006-07-29 >> >> googlesmirk >> having the final say in an argument verified by a google search >> 2006-07-22 >> >> textalien >> The things we say that do not originate from within. >> 2006-07-22 >> >> mournth >> This is your chance, your one chance, to make the right move. >> 2006-07-20 >> >> blorsque >> beet soup made with cabbage and vinegar >> 2006-07-18 >> >> pulikixa >> There's nothing you can do about it. Just start over from the >> beginning. A common routine for Windows users. >> 2006-07-14 >> >> thwelk >> don't trouble trouble till trouble troubles you >> 2006-07-14 >> >> squabulition >> a very old trick for inducing belief among a squad of skeptics >> 2006-07-14 >> >> lithokon >> naturally occurring signs & glyphs found on stones >> 2006-07-14 >> >> futuristry >> moving forward in time with a sense of purpose and free of doubt >> 2006-07-14 >> >> blendmodern >> post mortem post modern >> 2006-07-13 >> >> popmanteau >> all trends all styles simultaneously >> 2006-07-13 >> >> trepiliciosity >> the feeling of anticipation about an unpredictable event >> 2006-07-13 >> >> xexoxiality >> The recursive possibilities of replication in multiple dimensions. >> 2006-07-07 >> >> googlesmuck >> People whose lives are ruled by a search engine algorhythm >> 2006-07-04 >> >> compunicator >> the next great patented technology >> 2006-07-02 >> >> troglabyte >> when info-bytes were measured in trees and rocks >> 2006-07-02 >> >> stoperate >> stop and get busy >> 2006-07-02 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 20:24:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Wilcox Subject: Re: "A Remembrance of Hiroshima" 6 August 1945 In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable No, that's not true, here in Albany NY we read John Hershey's =20 "Hiroshima" on Sunday in Washington Park, an event sponsored by Upper =20= Hudson Peace Action, Veterans for Peace, & Bethlehem Neighbors for =20 Peace. The event was covered by TV-10 & the Albany Times-Union. The =20= reading of "Hiroshima" has occured for many years in Albany, first =20 instigated by poet & peace activist Tom Nattell. Also, the Grafton =20 Peace Pagoda holds an annual Peace Walk & inter-faith ceremony each =20 year at the Peace Pagoda in Grafton, NY. Peace is everywhere, people know it, let the rulers know it or kick =20 them out. Peach (sic), DWx On Aug 8, 2006, at 12:00 AM, POETICS automatic digest system wrote: There are 26 messages totalling 1966 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. "A Remembrance of Hiroshima" 6 August 1945 (2) 2. China Tightening Control Over Tibet -- Maureen Fan 3. Nastiness (4) 4. Silliman @ 60 (of late on the blog) 5. Peter Ciccariello on PFS Post 6. On Jessica Smith's blog: NOT ME (3) 7. James L. Weil and the Elizabeth Press 8. Alice Notley's email 9. JUST BUFFALO E-NEWSLETTER 8-07-06 (2) 10. BookMooch 11. help: Entartete Kunst (2) 12. "New Dawn" an abstract 13. NYC Readings 14. rhubarb is susan 15. Contact for Poetique??? 16. Notice: Mudlark 17. THE FEMINIST POETS IN LOW-CUT BLOUSES EQUAL OPPORTUNITY READING 18. more out of closeness to her ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 00:39:54 -0400 From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: "A Remembrance of Hiroshima" 6 August 1945 hiroshima mentioned on tv news tonight and in ny a small gathering w/music in east village only japan remembers well ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2006 22:53:15 -0700 From: AG Jorgensen Subject: China Tightening Control Over Tibet -- Maureen Fan China Tightening Control Over Tibet Even Amid Talks, Party Moves to Curb Influence of Dalai Lama By Maureen Fan Washington Post Foreign Service Saturday, August 5, 2006; Page A16 BEIJING, Aug. 4 -- China's Communist Party has been tightening its grip on Tibet in recent months, resorting to language and measures not seen since the repression of the late 1990s, according to sources with knowledge of the situation. The pressure comes as the Dalai Lama's envoys continue to negotiate with Beijing about his possible return to Tibet after more than 40 years in exile. The religious leader is regarded by the Chinese as bent on independence for the region, and his followers are seen as subversives. "In the last few weeks, we have seen an increasingly repressive political climate on Tibet as Beijing emphasizes its domination of the region," said Kate Saunders, a spokeswoman for the Washington-based International Campaign for Tibet. "It's difficult to discern the intentions of the senior leadership on the ongoing dialogue between the Dalai Lama's representatives and Beijing." Nongovernmental organizations in Tibet say they have started to feel the pressure. Some contracts to work in the region reportedly have not been renewed. Last month, a study program between American universities and Tibet University was closed in the city of Lhasa after 20 students arrived and were turned away, sources said on condition of anonymity. The official reason for the closure was that the teachers were too busy. Also last month, authorities shut down the blogs of a well-known Tibetan writer who posted a photograph of the Dalai Lama and wished him a happy birthday, his 71st. Some Tibet observers say the timing of the tightening could be a sign that various factions in the Communist Party are engaged in a power struggle, with hard-liners opposed to any deal that would bring the religious leader back from his exile in Dharamsala, India. But others argue that Chinese leaders have several cards and are playing them simultaneously, essentially negotiating on Tibet while still cracking down on the Dalai Lama's followers, said Robbie Barnett, professor of modern Tibetan studies at Columbia University. "Perhaps this is to wear down the Dalai Lama and threaten his power base," Barnett said. A story run in two Chinese newspapers and carried by the official New China News Agency asserted late last month that, while the Dalai Lama has told the world he seeks autonomy or a "middle way" rather than independence, he is not to be believed. "Given the fact that the Dalai Lama gives out different signals at different times and even at the same time, one can hardly agree his 'middle way' is different from 'Tibetan independence,' " the article said. The Chinese government has moved to block any influence the Dalai Lama has over Tibetans. Earlier this year, after the religious leader made a plea to protect endangered species and his followers began destroying their fur-lined traditional robes, the Chinese government banned Tibetans from burning fur pelts. Then, after monks clashed in a dispute over clay statues of an obscure deity at a monastery near Lhasa, the city's mayor accused the Dalai Lama of stirring up trouble and trying to "sabotage the unity of Tibet." There have long been cycles of repression and relaxation in Chinese policy toward Tibet. The previous two party secretaries in the region were considered technocrats who were more focused on economic development, observers said. But the current secretary, Zhang Qingli, who once served in the Communist Youth League with President Hu Jintao, has a strong record of making ideological statements against separatism. A former commander of the paramilitary Xinjiang Production and Construction Corps, Zhang had been charged with border security and presiding over the migration of millions of Han Chinese to Xinjiang. An informed source in Lhasa who spoke on condition of anonymity said thousands of government workers in Phenpo, a rural area just northeast of Lhasa, had been asked to write criticisms of the Dalai Lama. Similar campaigns have targeted monasteries in the past, but the source said it was unusual to involve civil servants. After being named to the post in May, Zhang had quickly declared a stepping-up of the Communist Party's patriotic education campaign in Tibet, beyond monasteries and nunneries to the wider population. He said it was a "fight-to- the-death struggle" with the Dalai Lama, who was "the biggest obstacle hindering Tibetan Buddhism from establishing normal order," according to state media reports. Said Saunders, of the International Campaign for Tibet: "It was almost Cultural Revolution language." A spokesman for the Foreign Ministry did not return a call seeking comment. --- "Our best security, our only security, is in the world of ideas, and I =20= sense a slight foreboding," he said.-- Justice Anthony Kennedy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2006 23:42:03 -0700 From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: Nastiness ----- Original Message -----=3D20 From: marcus@designerglass.com=3D20 To: alexander saliby ; UB Poetics discussion =3D= group=3D20 Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 4:37 PM Subject: Re: Nastiness On 6 Aug 2006 at 10:57, alexander saliby wrote: > Only if one is a narrow, 'black & white' thinker..< Well, it's hard to see your statement that there is no virtue in=3D20 criticism as other than black and white thinking. That's pretty=3D20 stark. For you to try to claim, now, after that kind of black and=3D20 white statement, that it is you who are the subtly nuanced thinker=3D20= seems rather like killing both your parents and throwing yourself =20 on=3D20 the mercy of the court on the grounds you're an orphan. Stop trying to see my comment as other than black and white...it is =20= a =3D black and white statement: There is no virtue in Criticism. DUH...& =3D Stop attacking me personally. Address the statement. Either refute it =3D= of not, but stick to the point. =3D20 > Others may hold to a slightly broader view, open to the realm of > possibilities which include even the remote possibility that they > themselves may be wrong (virtue-less) in any given circumstance. < Sure, and that's the position I'm suggesting I hold in this =20 instance,=3D20 since it was you who made the black and white claim. Try to keep up. Actually, you haven't taken a position!=3D20 All you've done is take cheap shots at the person, ignoring the point = =20 =3D of the statement. Please repeat in a following statement any statement =20= =3D you made that takes a position. I'd be happy to re-read them. After =3D all, my eyes are failing, and it is possible I missed your erudition. =20= =3D20 > Nor does being open to the possibility of lacking in virtue lead to > the illogical conclusion, as you suggest, that one is a felon.< Deliberately misunderstanding an analogy does not help your =20 argument,=3D20 especially not at this late date after you've admitted to being so=3D20= cynical and opinionated that you lack all virtue. It may not be a=3D20 certainty that those who lack all virtue are felons, but that's = the=3D20 way to bet. You might want to be more careful in future about your=3D20= claims to lack of virtue. It's a little late in this instance,=3D20 though. Analogy...wow is that ever funny!=3D20 Sloppy thinking is sloppy thinking no matter what you call it! And =3D= yours is both sloppy and personal. I sure as hell hope you aren't in a =20= =3D position of importance in our public school or public university =3D systems...if you are, you may well be the reason the GOP is winning the =20= =3D war on education they are waging when they claim our school system is =20= in =3D the toilet.=3D20 > The > difference of course being in doing that which is illegal as > contrasted from doing that which is wrong. Though I also concede > there are some who find all acts of wrong to be illegal;< There is certainly a possible difference, between illegal and =20 wrong,=3D20 but the reason that things are illegal is that a large part of a=3D20 society considers those things to be wrong. There are of course=3D20 exceptions, and reasons to campaign to change the laws to reflect =20 new=3D20 social attitudes, but again, that something is illegal makes it =20 wrong=3D20 is the way to bet. This is my favorite of your weasel words...in fact I've copied this =3D= message and pasted it on my toilet paper which here to for I'd labeled =3D= GOP...I'm now calling it Marcus's Bales. Marcus, listen to yourself =20 try =3D to squirm out of your fuck ups: "There is certainly a possible =3D difference between illegal and wrong..." Damn, I'm sure glad I didn't =3D= say that and you did! This may be the reason why lawyers have a bad =3D reputation...they too weasel like this. =3D20 > Virtue: The quality or act of doing that which is right and > avoiding that which is wrong. "She lives a life of virtue, avoiding > all sins of the flesh."=3D20 > Criticism: Disapproval expressed by pointing out what is wrong with > the work or thoughts of another. < There are two kinds of criticism: normative and critical. = Normative=3D20 criticism is, roughly, judgment about whether something is right = or=3D20 wrong withing the norms of the society; critical criticism is=3D20 judgment, roughly. about whether the norms of society reflect the=3D20 attitudes of society accurately. I have a word for this equally weasel nonsense: horseshit! =3D20 Are you drinking when you write this stuff, or are you on drugs? Pay = =20 =3D attention to this, I'll use caps to help you see the differences: =3D OPINION IS OPINION! YOU CAN CALL IT JUDGEMENT OR YOU CAN CALL IT =3D ANYTHING ELSE, IT IS STILL OPINION. And, since it is opinion, I =20 repeat: =3D There is no virtue in criticism. =3D20 You seem to be thinking that whether something is virtuous or not =20 is=3D20 a matter of critical judgment, while thinking that whether =20 something=3D20 is legal or not is a matter of normative judgment. If I understand=3D20= you correctly, then, what you're claiming is that your critical=3D20 judgment is worthless because you're self-described as too cynical=3D20= and opinionated to have such judgment. You may still be claiming = to=3D20 be able to tell whether something is legal or not (normative=3D20 judgment), but you've abandoned all claims to critical judgment, = or=3D20 judgment of virtue. Marcus, what the hell is this nonsense? =3D20 My statement was simple, I'll repeat it: There is no virtue in =3D criticism. That statement neither castigates another thinker, nor does =20= =3D it require a 600 word excuse for the fuck-up in your earlier comments. =20= =3D Fact: criticism is opinion, ergo, I repeat: there is no virtue in =3D opinion (criticism). If in fact you lack the intellect to =20 differentiate =3D between fact and opinion, I'm sorry, I really can't help you on this =3D point. =3D20 > Perhaps, ... this is merely a virtue-less opinion, Lucas > fails to see the virtue in Paul's screaming simply because Lucas has > already closed his mind to the possibility of truths inherent in the > thoughts of others.< Lucas seemed to me to be distinguishing between the substance of =20 the=3D20 issues and the manner of presentation -- and in this I agree with=3D20 him. Name-calling and ad hominem attacks are deservedly relegated =20 to=3D20 the category of fallaciousness. To urge people to stick to the =20 point=3D20 and argue the issues on their merits, and refrain from personal = and=3D20 ad hominem attacks, seems less like a closing of Lucas's mind to =20 the=3D20 possibility of there being merit to Paul's position than like a=3D20 reasonable demand that the discussion be carried out at a =20 reasonable=3D20 pitch and pace.=3D20 How generous of you to share with us your opinion here, finally!!!! =20= =3D20 But too, you also miss the point of Lucas's attack. I suggest you =3D return to it, for in point of truth, Lucas in his comments, as do you =20= in =3D yours to me, attempt more to attack the person than to argue the point. =20= =3D I suspect both you and Lucas will continue to miss the point of the =3D= Paul's of the mid-east...you've already made up your minds they are the =20= =3D ranting and the illogical. In point of truth, they may be the only =3D remaining sane ones among us in that mess. I say let's pay some =3D attention to the screamers. They may be trying to tell us =3D something...even if it is something we really don't want to hear.=3D20 And this, Marcus, was my point to Lucas. He moved the solution bar =20= not =3D one degree closer to resolution. In fact, he may have moved matters =3D several degrees further from resolution. =3D20 If there is a non-violent solution to the mess we currently have in =3D= the Mid-East, that solution will not come from the rantings of =20 different =3D views, nor will it come from any of your comments, however well =3D intentioned you may think you are.=3D20 Alex=3D20 Marcus > ----- Original Message -----=3D20 > From: Marcus =3D Bales>=3D20 > To: > =3D POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU>=3D20 > Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 10:13 AM > Subject: Re: Nastiness > =3D20 > =3D20 > That sort of puts you in the position of an embezzler criticizing > another guy for stealing from the company, then, doesn't it? > =3D20 > M > =3D20 > On 6 Aug 2006 at 8:28, alexander saliby wrote: > =3D20 >> Nope...not even there. =3D20 >> =3D20 >> I'm too cynical and opinionated to have retained any virtuous >> qualities, if I ever really had any.=3D20 >> Alex >> ----- Original Message -----=3D20 >> From: Marcus > =3D Bales > M>>=3D20 >> To: >> > =3D POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > =3D lto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>> =3D20 >> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 7:17 AM >> Subject: Re: Nastiness >> =3D20 >> =3D20 >>> Alex wrote: >>>> There is no virtue in criticism.< >> =3D20 >> What! Not even in your own criticism of Lucas!?=3D20 >> =3D20 >> Marcus ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 07:20:21 -0400 From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: Nastiness On 6 Aug 2006 at 10:57, alexander saliby wrote: > Only if one is a narrow, 'black & white' thinker..< Well, it's hard to see your statement that there is no virtue in criticism as other than black and white thinking. That's pretty stark. For you to try to claim, now, after that kind of black and white statement, that it is you who are the subtly nuanced thinker seems rather like killing both your parents and throwing yourself on the mercy of the court on the grounds you're an orphan. > Others may hold to a slightly broader view, open to the realm of > possibilities which include even the remote possibility that they > themselves may be wrong (virtue-less) in any given circumstance. < Sure, and that's the position I'm suggesting I hold in this instance, since it was you who made the black and white claim. Try to keep up. > Nor does being open to the possibility of lacking in virtue lead to > the illogical conclusion, as you suggest, that one is a felon.< Deliberately misunderstanding an analogy does not help your argument, especially not at this late date after you've admitted to being so cynical and opinionated that you lack all virtue. It may not be a certainty that those who lack all virtue are felons, but that's the way to bet. You might want to be more careful in future about your claims to lack of virtue. It's a little late in this instance, though. > The > difference of course being in doing that which is illegal as > contrasted from doing that which is wrong. Though I also concede > there are some who find all acts of wrong to be illegal;< There is certainly a possible difference, between illegal and wrong, but the reason that things are illegal is that a large part of a society considers those things to be wrong. There are of course exceptions, and reasons to campaign to change the laws to reflect new social attitudes, but again, that something is illegal makes it wrong is the way to bet. > Virtue: The quality or act of doing that which is right and > avoiding that which is wrong. "She lives a life of virtue, avoiding > all sins of the flesh." > Criticism: Disapproval expressed by pointing out what is wrong with > the work or thoughts of another. < There are two kinds of criticism: normative and critical. Normative criticism is, roughly, judgment about whether something is right or wrong withing the norms of the society; critical criticism is judgment, roughly. about whether the norms of society reflect the attitudes of society accurately. You seem to be thinking that whether something is virtuous or not is a matter of critical judgment, while thinking that whether something is legal or not is a matter of normative judgment. If I understand you correctly, then, what you're claiming is that your critical judgment is worthless because you're self-described as too cynical and opinionated to have such judgment. You may still be claiming to be able to tell whether something is legal or not (normative judgment), but you've abandoned all claims to critical judgment, or judgment of virtue. > Perhaps, ... this is merely a virtue-less opinion, Lucas > fails to see the virtue in Paul's screaming simply because Lucas has > already closed his mind to the possibility of truths inherent in the > thoughts of others.< Lucas seemed to me to be distinguishing between the substance of the issues and the manner of presentation -- and in this I agree with him. Name-calling and ad hominem attacks are deservedly relegated to the category of fallaciousness. To urge people to stick to the point and argue the issues on their merits, and refrain from personal and ad hominem attacks, seems less like a closing of Lucas's mind to the possibility of there being merit to Paul's position than like a reasonable demand that the discussion be carried out at a reasonable pitch and pace. Marcus On 6 Aug 2006 at 10:57, alexander saliby wrote: > M > Only if one is a narrow, 'black & white' thinker...e.g. there is > only that which is good (virtuous) and that which is evil (lacking > in virtue), and the good and the evil are set by their personal > definitions of the terms. > > Others may hold to a slightly broader view, open to the realm of > possibilities which include even the remote possibility that they > themselves may be wrong (virtue-less) in any given circumstance. > > Nor does being open to the possibility of lacking in virtue lead to > the illogical conclusion, as you suggest, that one is a felon. The > difference of course being in doing that which is illegal as > contrasted from doing that which is wrong. Though I also concede > there are some who find all acts of wrong to be illegal; I know a > few such folks who attend a local church I avoid. > > Virtue: The quality or act of doing that which is right and > avoiding that which is wrong. "She lives a life of virtue, avoiding > all sins of the flesh." > > Criticism: Disapproval expressed by pointing out what is wrong with > the work or thoughts of another. > > Perhaps, and of course, this is merely a virtue-less opinion, Lucas > fails to see the virtue in Paul's screaming simply because Lucas has > already closed his mind to the possibility of truths inherent in the > thoughts of others. > A > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Marcus Bales > To: > POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 10:13 AM > Subject: Re: Nastiness > > > That sort of puts you in the position of an embezzler criticizing > another guy for stealing from the company, then, doesn't it? > > M > > On 6 Aug 2006 at 8:28, alexander saliby wrote: > >> Nope...not even there. >> >> I'm too cynical and opinionated to have retained any virtuous >> qualities, if I ever really had any. >> Alex >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Marcus > Bales M>> >> To: >> > POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU lto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU>> >> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 7:17 AM >> Subject: Re: Nastiness >> >> >>> Alex wrote: >>>> There is no virtue in criticism.< >> >> What! Not even in your own criticism of Lucas!? >> >> Marcus ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 04:53:13 -0700 From: Ron Silliman Subject: Silliman @ 60 (of late on the blog) http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ RECENT POSTS Laugh1ng M1rrors Puk1ng: Stacy Doris reinvents the world A note on comments On turning 60 Philip K Dick & Shakespeare: The Simulacra Publishing Robert Grenier (100 Sentences / 100 Phrases) Jack Kerouac and Book of Sketches =E2=80=93 a major work arrives sans editing James L. Weil Another Last Poem Visions of Kerouac =E2=80=93 Clark Coolidge as literary critic Blog comments are back Sylvester Pollet and Backwoods Broadsides reach a conclusion Language Is by John Phillips a new moment is post-Projectivist post-Objectivist poetry? Mid-American Chants by Sherwood Anderson Writing as the personal never applied Gabe Gudding on the history of creative writing and contemporary poetry Rebirth of the division between the School of Quietude and the post-avant tradition in Afghan poetry in the U.S. Geography, community and traffic in the San Francisco Bay Area A moment of comedy offered by Brad Leithauser in the NY Times The tragedy of David Ignatow http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 09:15:46 -0400 From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: Nastiness On 6 Aug 2006 at 23:42, alexander saliby wrote: > Stop trying to see my commentas other than black and white...it > is a black and white statement: There is no virtue in Criticism. The claim "There is no virtue in criticism" is a criticism. If the claim is the true, the claim contradicts itself because if there is no virtue in criticism, there is no virtue in the claim itself. If the claim is false, then there is virtue in the claim because the claim is false. > Marcus, listen to yourself: ..."There is certainly a possible > =20 > differen=3D ce between illegal and wrong..." > Damn, I'm sure glad I didn't say that and you did! Alex, if there can be no difference between what is wrong and what is illegal, then there can be no difference between what is right and what is legal -- which means that there can be no critical analysis of the law and, thus, no way to change it. There must be a possible difference between what is illegal and what is wrong so that there can be a possible difference between what is right and what is legal so that we can have a critical analysis of the law. Marcus Bales wrote: >> There are two kinds of criticism: normative and critical. >> Normative criticism is, roughly, judgment about whether something > > = =20 >> =3D is right or wrong withing the norms of the society; critical >> criticism is judgment, roughly. about whether the norms of >> society reflect the attitudes of society accurately. > I have a word for this equally weasel nonsense: horseshit! Once again, Alex, if you deny that there is ever any difference between what is illegal and what is wrong, or between what is legal and what is right, you cannot have a critical analysis of the law, because you will have taken the position that the law is always right. > OPINION IS OPINION! YOU CAN CALL IT JUDGEMENT OR YOU CAN CALL IT > ANYTHING ELSE, IT IS STILL OPINION. And, since it is opinion, I > repeat: There is no virtue in criticism. ... criticism is opinion, > ergo, I repeat: there is no virtue in opinion (criticism). < This claim is just as easy to refute: The claim "There is no virtue in opinion" is an opinion. If the claim is the true, the claim contradicts itself because if there is no virtue in opinion, there is no virtue in the claim itself. If the claim is false, then there is virtue in the claim because the claim is false. > But too, you also miss the point of Lucas's attack. I suggest > you return to it, for in point of truth, Lucas in his comments, as > do you in yours to me, attempt more to attack the person than to argue > the point.< Lucas may or may not agree with Paul's opinions about what to do or not do with regard to the Israelis and Palestinians -- but what Lucas said about Paul's tone and manner was that Paul's name-calling and personal attack ought to be avoided. You criticised Lucas's criticism by saying there is no virtue in criticism, and I pointed out that that is a contradiction, a fallacy. I'm not really sure why you're trying to defend the contradiction, but then, I'm not really sure why you'd want to make it in the first place. > ... I say let's pay > some attention to the screamers. They may be trying to tell us > something...even if it is something we really don't want to > hear. < I say the screamers are the problem -- they're the ones saying "Kill the enemy!" and other various extremist things. It is the screamers, the zealots, the true believers who are creating the problem, on both sides, and who create the problems on both sides in almost all circumstances. That's why I, and Lucas, too, I think, oppose personal attacks and ad hominem arguments. > ... If there is a non-violent solution to the mess we currently have > in the Mid-East, that solution will not come from the rantings of > different views...< Here we may agree, if by "rantings" you mean what "the screamers" say -- though if you do, you've got another contradiction on your hands,=20 since just above you said that you think that it may be "the screamers" whose rants we should be listening to. Speech you don=3DB4t like, if you=3DB4re going to be civil, requires = speech that defends your views and argues against the views of others instead of wheeling out the rusty artillery of abuse. The example of imperturbable civility in the face of barbarian rage is emblematic, I think, of what civilization is all about, and is the best way in cyberspace (and cyberspace started with the first human writing, I think) to persuade others (though not often one=3DB4s enraged opponent, admittedly) of the virtues of such civility in the first place and the validity of one=3DB4s arguments in the second. The problem with the notion of "more speech" in response to speech one doesn=3DB4t like is not that it has been tried and found wanting, = but that it has been tried and found difficult. It is, therefore, often abandoned in favor of the far easier demand to suppress the speech one doesn=3DB4t like. People should use civil speech to establish boundaries and definitions and to compare boundaries and definitions. One of the most fascinating things about the internet is that it invites people into a forum to discuss things with people they wouldn=3DB4t meet, or wouldn=3DB4t meet often, or if they met wouldn=3DB4t talk to, in the = flesh. Some people, confronted with opinions they don=3DB4t want to hear, and forbidden either to call their opponents names or demand the suppression of their opponents views, vote with their feet. That's too bad, because running away from opposing views seems to me to be counter-productive and, ultimately, self-defeating. What seems to me to be productive and virtuous is, instead, trying to educating oneself, one's interlocutors, and the uncommitted bystanders through discussion that addresses the merits of the issues at hand without resorting to personal attack. Marcus >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Marcus Bales >> To: >> > POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 10:13 AM >> Subject: Re: Nastiness >> >> >> That sort of puts you in the position of an embezzler > criticizing >> another guy for stealing from the company, then, doesn't it? >> >> M >> >> On 6 Aug 2006 at 8:28, alexander saliby wrote: >> >>> Nope...not even there. >>> >>> I'm too cynical and opinionated to have retained any > virtuous >>> qualities, if I ever really had any. >>> Alex >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Marcus >> > Bales> M>> >>> To: >>> >> > POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> > lto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU>>> >>> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 7:17 AM >>> Subject: Re: Nastiness >>> >>> >>>> Alex wrote: >>>>> There is no virtue in criticism.< >>> >>> What! Not even in your own criticism of Lucas!? >>> >>> Marcus > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 08:27:19 -0500 From: furniture_ press Subject: Re: Nastiness As long as we're sticking to black and white - what about illegal art? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marcus Bales" > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Nastiness > Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 09:15:46 -0400 > =3D20 > =3D20 > On 6 Aug 2006 at 23:42, alexander saliby wrote: >> Stop trying to see my commentas other than black and white...it >> is a black and white statement: There is no virtue in Criticism. > =3D20 > The claim "There is no virtue in criticism" is a criticism. > If the claim is the true, the claim contradicts itself because if > there is no virtue in criticism, there is no virtue in the claim > itself. > If the claim is false, then there is virtue in the claim because the > claim is false. > =3D20 >> Marcus, listen to yourself: ..."There is certainly a possible > =20 >> differe=3D nce between illegal and=3D20 >> wrong..." > =3D20 >> Damn, I'm sure glad I didn't say that and you did! > =3D20 > Alex, if there can be no difference between what is wrong and what is > illegal, then there can be no difference between what is right and > what is legal -- which means that there can be no critical analysis > of the law and, thus, no way to change it. There must be a possible > difference between what is illegal and what is wrong so that there > can be a possible difference between what is right and what is legal > so that we can have a critical analysis of the law. > =3D20 > Marcus Bales wrote: >>> There are two kinds of criticism: normative and critical. >>> Normative criticism is, roughly, judgment about whether something > =20= >>> >=3D is right or wrong=3D20 >> withing the norms of the society; critical >>> criticism is judgment, roughly. about whether the norms of >>> society reflect the attitudes of society accurately. > =3D20 >> I have a word for this equally weasel nonsense: horseshit! > =3D20 > Once again, Alex, if you deny that there is ever any difference > between what is illegal and what is wrong, or between what is legal > and what is right, you cannot have a critical analysis of the law, > because you will have taken the position that the law is always > right. > =3D20 >> OPINION IS OPINION! YOU CAN CALL IT JUDGEMENT OR YOU CAN CALL IT >> ANYTHING ELSE, IT IS STILL OPINION. And, since it is opinion, I >> repeat: There is no virtue in criticism. ... criticism is opinion, >> ergo, I repeat: there is no virtue in opinion (criticism). < > =3D20 > This claim is just as easy to refute: > =3D20 > The claim "There is no virtue in opinion" is an opinion. > If the claim is the true, the claim contradicts itself because if > there is no virtue in opinion, there is no virtue in the claim > itself. > If the claim is false, then there is virtue in the claim because the > claim is false. > =3D20 >> But too, you also miss the point of Lucas's attack. I suggest >> you return to it, for in point of truth, Lucas in his comments, as >> do you in yours to me, attempt more to attack the person than to = argue >> the point.< > =3D20 > Lucas may or may not agree with Paul's opinions about what to do or > not do with regard to the Israelis and Palestinians -- but what Lucas > said about Paul's tone and manner was that Paul's name-calling and > personal attack ought to be avoided. You criticised Lucas's criticism > by saying there is no virtue in criticism, and I pointed out that > that is a contradiction, a fallacy. I'm not really sure why you're > trying to defend the contradiction, but then, I'm not really sure why > you'd want to make it in the first place. > =3D20 >> ... I say let's pay >> some attention to the screamers. They may be trying to tell us >> something...even if it is something we really don't want to >> hear. < > =3D20 > I say the screamers are the problem -- they're the ones saying "Kill > the enemy!" and other various extremist things. It is the screamers, > the zealots, the true believers who are creating the problem, on both > sides, and who create the problems on both sides in almost all > circumstances. That's why I, and Lucas, too, I think, oppose personal > attacks and ad hominem arguments. > =3D20 >> ... If there is a non-violent solution to the mess we currently have >> in the Mid-East, that solution will not come from the rantings of >> different views...< > =3D20 > Here we may agree, if by "rantings" you mean what "the screamers" say > -- though if you do, you've got another contradiction on your hands, > since just above you said that you think that it may be "the > screamers" whose rants we should be listening to. > =3D20 > Speech you don=3DB4t like, if you=3DB4re going to be civil, requires = speech > that defends your views and argues against the views of others > instead of wheeling out the rusty artillery of abuse. > =3D20 > The example of imperturbable civility in the face of barbarian rage > is emblematic, I think, of what civilization is all about, and is the > best way in cyberspace (and cyberspace started with the first human > writing, I think) to persuade others (though not often one=3DB4s = enraged > opponent, admittedly) of the virtues of such civility in the first > place and the validity of one=3DB4s arguments in the second. > =3D20 > The problem with the notion of "more speech" in response to speech > one doesn=3DB4t like is not that it has been tried and found wanting, = but > that it has been tried and found difficult. It is, therefore, often > abandoned in favor of the far easier demand to suppress the speech > one doesn=3DB4t like. > =3D20 > People should use civil speech to establish boundaries and > definitions and to compare boundaries and definitions. One of the > most fascinating things about the internet is that it invites people > into a forum to discuss things with people they wouldn=3DB4t meet, or > wouldn=3DB4t meet often, or if they met wouldn=3DB4t talk to, in the = flesh. > =3D20 > Some people, confronted with opinions they don=3DB4t want to hear, and > forbidden either to call their opponents names or demand the > suppression of their opponents views, vote with their feet. That's > too bad, because running away from opposing views seems to me to be > counter-productive and, ultimately, self-defeating. What seems to me > to be productive and virtuous is, instead, trying to educating > oneself, one's interlocutors, and the uncommitted bystanders through > discussion that addresses the merits of the issues at hand without > resorting to personal attack. > =3D20 > Marcus > =3D20 > =3D20 >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Marcus Bales >>> To: >>> >> POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 10:13 AM >>> Subject: Re: Nastiness >>> >>> >>> That sort of puts you in the position of an embezzler >> criticizing >>> another guy for stealing from the company, then, doesn't it? >>> >>> M >>> >>> On 6 Aug 2006 at 8:28, alexander saliby wrote: >>> >>>> Nope...not even there. >>>> >>>> I'm too cynical and opinionated to have retained any >> virtuous >>>> qualities, if I ever really had any. >>>> Alex >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Marcus >>> >> Bales>> M>> >>>> To: >>>> >>> >> POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU>> >> lto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU>>>> >>>> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 7:17 AM >>>> Subject: Re: Nastiness >>>> >>>> >>>>> Alex wrote: >>>>>> There is no virtue in criticism.< >>>> >>>> What! Not even in your own criticism of Lucas!? >>>> >>>> Marcus >> >> >> > Christophe Casamassima Professor Emiritus, Modern Languages & Philology University of Jamaica Avenue, Queens, N.Y. --=3D20 ___________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.graffiti.net/ Powered By Outblaze ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 06:51:08 -0700 From: Adam Fieled Subject: Peter Ciccariello on PFS Post New on PFS Post (http://www.artrecess.blogspot.com): Rhode Island artist Peter Ciccariello has three images up, from his =20= Landscape of Diplomacy series. Beautiful stuff; please check it out. Today on Stoning the Devil (http://www.adamfieled.blogspot.com): "Half-Birthday Post Avant Blues" =09 --------------------------------- Groups are talking. We´re listening. Check out the handy changes =20= to Yahoo! Groups. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 07:38:48 -0700 From: Adam Fieled Subject: On Jessica Smith's blog: NOT ME I just found out, from Jessica Smith, that a rumor has been circulating =20= that I'm the one that was "blog-stalking" her. I say here, =20 unequivocally, for all time, that the person on her blog was NOT ME. I =20= DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO HIDE!!! To those of you who've been spreading =20 the rumour, DESIST. It's NOT TRUE. Go pin the tail on someone else, you =20= mystery loving, crime stopping "Sherlocks". I don't do things like =20 that, never have. Period. Eat a peach, Adam Fieled afieled@yahoo.com =09 --------------------------------- See the all-new, redesigned Yahoo.com. Check it out. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 07:39:11 -0700 From: David Baratier Subject: James L. Weil and the Elizabeth Press I find it tough to believe that no one here has something to say about =20= Jim Weil who is definitely one the most important American poetry =20 publishers of the 1960's and 70's. While I might guess that from this =20= list only Ed Foster, Jenny Penberthy and myself (& maybe David =20 Kirschenbaum) have had direct contact with him (as others I know are =20 not subscribed here), it seems important to mention his contribution as =20= my work brought him to his publishing, not his poetry. Weil ran the Elizabeth Press from the early 1960's until 1982; during = =20 this period he published the first collections by Simon Perchik, =20 Carroll Arnett, and John Taggart. Some of his other authors included =20 Lorine Niedecker, Larry Eigner, Ted Enslin, Anselm Hollo, and John =20 Perlman(whose first book he might also have published). =46rom the early = =20 60's to the late 70's he was the primary publisher of William Bronk, =20 Cid Corman, Simon Perchik, John Perlman and Carroll Arnett. Life =20 Supports by William Bronk, when re-issued by another press, won the =20 National Book Award in 1982. For me his importance was what it lead me towards, reading _Which =20 Hand Holds the Brother_ by Simon Perchik lead me to re-issuing all of =20= his Elizabeth Books. Reading Larry Eigner's Elizabeth books led me =20 toward reading a publication called L=3DA=3DN=3DG=3DU=3DA=3DG=3DE which = had a feature =20 about him, which in turn lead me to reading and eventually publishing =20= Bob Grenier. My extensive work with editing Hands Collected The Books =20= of Simon Perchik (which includes six books from Elizabeth Press) as =20 well as a Collected of Carroll Arnett (which also includes six books =20 from Elizabeth) and talks with Cid Corman about issuing a Selected =20 (including probably a dozen of Elizabeth books, which was eventually =20 released by New Directions) are what brought me in contact with him. He also published 18 issues of Elizabeth between 1961 and 1971. Some =20= of their better known authors were Diane Wakoski, Cid Corman, George =20 Oppen, Ron Offen, Lewis Turco, Richard Crashaw, William Stafford, Simon =20= Perchik, Felix Stefanile, David Ignatow, Carroll Arnett, Loring =20 Williams, Anselm Hollo, Robert Creeley, John Taggart, George Bowering, =20= Paul Blackburn as well as many others. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 11:14:28 -0400 From: Peter Ciccariello Subject: Re: "A Remembrance of Hiroshima" 6 August 1945 Steve, FYI, I did get this email yesterday. -Peter --- "Matt Holland, TrueMajority" wrote: > Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2006 16:23:45 GMT > > Subject: On Hiroshima day, send an e-card that will stop the madness > > "I never really understood the craziness until I saw this video" > In honor of the victims of Hiroshima, send this E-card to your > friends > > Sunday is Hiroshima Day, the 61st anniversary of the first > atomic bomb attack in history. > > We've come up with a 90-second video that shows the truth in a > simple way you'll never forget.(click below to watch it). > http://www.truemajority.org/postcard > > Hiroshima Day is a time to remember the dead, but let's also > work toward a saner, safer future. Please send the E-card to as > many people as you can. You will be commemorating the day at the > same time you spread the crucial information needed stop the > craziness. > > No more Hiroshimas, > > Matt Holland > TrueMajority Online Director ____________________________________________________ On 8/7/06, Steve Dalachinsky wrote: > > hiroshima mentioned on tv news tonight and in ny a small gathering > w/music in east village > > only japan remembers well > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 08:37:18 -0700 From: Michael Tod Edgerton Subject: Alice Notley's email Does anyone by any chance have Alice Notley's email? Or know if she =20 even does email? I have a snail mail address for her in Paris, but =20 given that that would take a good month back and forth, I was hoping to =20= expedite things with an email. (I'm hoping desperately that she will =20 sponsor my Fulbright app.) Please backchannel, of cousrse. Many thanks in advance! Cheers, Tod Michael Tod Edgerton Poet-in-Residence, Spring 2006 Stonehill College __________________ Peter Kaplan Memorial Fellow, 2004 - 2006 Program in Literary Arts Brown University "There's the mute probability of a reciprocal lack of understanding" - Mei-mei Berssenbrugge ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 12:01:06 -0400 From: Michael Kelleher Subject: JUST BUFFALO E-NEWSLETTER 8-07-06 OPEN READINGS, hosted by Livio Farallo Carnegie Art Center 240 Goundry St., North Tonawanda (Meets monthly on the second Wednesday) Featured: Karen Lewis, Celeste Lawson Wednesday, August 9, 7 P.M. 10 slots for open readers Free JOIN JUST BUFFALO ONLINE=3D21=3D21=3D21 If you would like to join Just Buffalo, or simply make a massive =20 personal d=3D onation, you can do so online using your credit card. We have recently added the =20 abilit=3D y to join online by paying with a credit card through PayPal. Simply click on =20 the me=3D mbership level at which you would like to join, log in (or create a PayPal =20 account u=3D sing your Visa/Amex/Mastercard/Discover), and voil=3DE1, you will find yourself in = =20 lite=3D rary heaven. For more info, or to join now, go to our website: http://www.justbuffalo.org/membership/index.shtml JUST BUFFALO WRITER'S CRITIQUE GROUP Members of Just Buffalo are welcome to attend a free, bi-monthly writer =20= cri=3D tique group in CEPA's Flux Gallery. Group meets 1st and 3rd Wednesday at 7 p.m. =20 Call fo=3D r details. Note: the critique group is on hiatus until September. Please call in =20= Augu=3D st if you'd like to join up in the fall. LITERARY BUFFALO 2 EVENTS THIS WEEK AT TALKING LEAVES...BOOKS James Conroyd Martin , author of the novel Against a Crimson Sky , a =20 BookSe=3D nse pick for August 2006, will be at Talking Leaves...Elmwood to discuss and =20 sign co=3D pies of the just-released book on Monday, August 7, at 7 pm. The event is free =20 and op=3D en to the public. Copies of the new novel and its companion work, Push Not the =20= Rive=3D r , are available for purchase now and will be on sale during the autographing. Cristina Page , author of How the Pro-Choice Movement Saved America: =20 Freedo=3D m, Politics and the War on Sex , will discuss and sign copies of her book =20= at T=3D alking Leaves...Books, 3158 Main Street, on Thursday, August 10, at 7 pm. =20 This e=3D vent, hosted by Talking Leaves and sponsored by NARAL Pro-Choice New York's =20= Buffa=3D lo Action Team, is free and open to the public. Copies of Ms. Page's =20 book ar=3D e available for purchase, and will be sold the night of the talk and signing. UNSUBSCRIBE If you would like to unsubscribe from this list, just say so and you =20 will b=3D e immediately removed. _______________________________ Michael Kelleher Artistic Director Just Buffalo Literary Center Market Arcade 617 Main St., Ste. 202A Buffalo, NY 14203 716.832.5400 716.270.0184 (fax) www.justbuffalo.org mjk=3D40justbuffalo.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 11:17:52 -0500 From: mIEKAL aND Subject: BookMooch BookMooch is a community for exchanging used books. BookMooch lets you give away books you no longer need in exchange for books you really want. # Give & receive: Every time you give someone a book, you earn a point and can get any book you want from anyone else at BookMooch. Once you've read a book, you can keep it forever or put it back into BookMooch for someone else, as you wish. # No cost: there is no cost to join or use this web site: your only cost is mailing your books to others. # Points for entering books: you receive a tenth-of-a-point for every book you type into our system, and one point each time you give a book away. In order to keep receiving books, you need to give away at least one book for every two you receive. # Help charities: you can also give your points to charities we work with, such as children's hospitals (so a sick kid can get a free book delivered to their bed), Library fund, African literacy, or to us to thank us for running this web site . # World wide: BookMooch is not just for Americans. You can request books from other countries, in other languages. You receive 2 points when you send a book out of your country, to help compensate you for the greater mailing cost. John Buckman, who runs BookMooch, lives both in California and London, England, and was frustrated by the vast number of books that were printed in just one country but not any another, or only after several years. Translations into French, German and other languages are planned, and we already work fine with the various Amazon worldwide databases. # Wishlist: you can keep a "book wish list" that will automatically arrive to you when you have the points and/or the book becomes available in our catalog. Others earn 2 points if they supply a book on your wishlist, so everyone is highly motivated to help find books others are looking for. # All books: our goal is to make more use out of all books, to help keep books from becoming unavailable. The worst thing that can happen to a book is for no-one to be able to read it. # Feedback score: each time you receive a book, you can leave feedback with the sender, just like how eBay does it. If you keep your feedback score up, people are most likely to help you out when you ask for a book. http://bookmooch.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 12:57:09 -0400 From: kevin thurston Subject: help: Entartete Kunst does anyone have, or can they point me to, a translation of the actual =20= edict made by goebbels (i assume) regarding degenerate art? or perhaps the =20 text from the catalog if they made one? i'd appreciate it. --=20 http://fuckinglies.blogspot.com http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/thepixelplus/nhdoublewide.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 17:57:10 +0000 From: Paul Nelson Subject: Re: JUST BUFFALO E-NEWSLETTER 8-07-06 > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Kelleher [mailto:mjk@JUSTBUFFALO.ORG] > Sent: Monday, August 7, 2006 04:01 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: JUST BUFFALO E-NEWSLETTER 8-07-06 > > OPEN READINGS, hosted by Livio Farallo > > Carnegie Art Center > 240 Goundry St., North Tonawanda (Meets monthly on the second =20 > Wednesday=3D ) > Featured: Karen Lewis, Celeste Lawson > Wednesday, August 9, 7 P.M. > 10 slots for open readers > Free Hey Michael, Is there any way we could put a temporary hold on the Dualism and =20 Olsonia=3D n/ Whiteheadian Process essay? It will be published in Fulcrum and they =20= h=3D ave asked that it be off-line til Jan 1, 2007. Here's what I have put =20= on =3D my own website: http://globalvoicesradio.org/temporarily.html Let me know and thanks for your consideration. Paul > > JOIN JUST BUFFALO ONLINE!!! > > If you would like to join Just Buffalo, or simply make a massive =20 > person=3D al donation, you > can do so online using your credit card. We have recently added the =20= > ab=3D ility to join > online by paying with a credit card through PayPal. Simply click on =20= > th=3D e membership > level at which you would like to join, log in (or create a PayPal =20 > accou=3D nt using your > Visa/Amex/Mastercard/Discover), and voil=3DE1, you will find yourself = in =20 > =3D literary heaven. > For more info, or to join now, go to our website: > > http://www.justbuffalo.org/membership/index.shtml > > JUST BUFFALO WRITER'S CRITIQUE GROUP > > Members of Just Buffalo are welcome to attend a free, bi-monthly =20 > writer=3D critique group > in CEPA's Flux Gallery. Group meets 1st and 3rd Wednesday at 7 p.m. =20= > Cal=3D l for details. > > Note: the critique group is on hiatus until September. Please call in = =20 > =3D August if you'd like > to join up in the fall. > > LITERARY BUFFALO > > 2 EVENTS THIS WEEK AT TALKING LEAVES...BOOKS > > James Conroyd Martin , author of the novel Against a Crimson Sky , a =20= > Bo=3D okSense pick > for August 2006, will be at Talking Leaves...Elmwood to discuss and =20= > sig=3D n copies of the > just-released book on Monday, August 7, at 7 pm. The event is free =20= > an=3D d open to the > public. Copies of the new novel and its companion work, Push Not the = =20 > =3D River , are > available for purchase now and will be on sale during the =20 > autographing.=3D > > Cristina Page , author of How the Pro-Choice Movement Saved America: =20= > Fr=3D eedom, > Politics and the War on Sex , will discuss and sign copies of her book = =20 > =3D at Talking > Leaves...Books, 3158 Main Street, on Thursday, August 10, at 7 pm. =20= > Th=3D is event, > hosted by Talking Leaves and sponsored by NARAL Pro-Choice New York's =20= > B=3D uffalo > Action Team, is free and open to the public. Copies of Ms. Page's =20= > boo=3D k are available > for purchase, and will be sold the night of the talk and signing. > > UNSUBSCRIBE > > If you would like to unsubscribe from this list, just say so and you =20= > wi=3D ll be immediately > removed. > _______________________________ > Michael Kelleher > Artistic Director > Just Buffalo Literary Center > Market Arcade > 617 Main St., Ste. 202A > Buffalo, NY 14203 > 716.832.5400 > 716.270.0184 (fax) > www.justbuffalo.org > mjk@justbuffalo.org > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 13:24:37 -0500 From: Halvard Johnson Subject: "New Dawn" an abstract 1 EXPLOSION: SEQUENCE AND SIMULTANEITY Greenwich Time 11:16 P.M. August 5 1945... Hiroshima Time 6:16 P.M. " "... 2 GOODBYE TO TINIAN Now that all the"unauthorized items"are cleared from the bomber/... Colonel Tibbets, commander/... Addresses the crew, "just don't/Screw it up..." 3 TAKEOFF: TINIAN ISLAND ...Position taken... 4 MYSTIC NAME ...some name it"The Beast," and some... "Little Boy." 5 WHEN ... 6:30 A.M. Japanese Time, last lap to target... 6 IWO JIMA ...Advice bombing primary-i.e./Hiroshima... 7 SELF AND NON-SELF... /8 DAWN... 9 THE APPROACH Speed 200 miles per hour... /On time. Color/Of the world changes. /...like a dream. 10 WHAT THAT IS The apocalyptic blaze... Bursts... Hiroshima Time:8:16 A.M., August 6, 1945. 12 MANIC ATMOSPHERE... /13 TRIUMPHAL BEAUTY... 14 HOME "We made it!"... The mutual salute. At last... 15 SLEEP Some men, no doubt, will, before sleep, consider/One thought: I am alone. But some, /in the mercy of God, or booze, do not Long stare at the dark ceiling. --Robert Penn Warren [Note: The above is an abstract of a poem called "New Dawn," first published in the New Yorker issue dated Nov. 14, 1983] Hal Serving the tristate area. Halvard Johnson =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D halvard@gmail.com halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 14:00:37 -0500 From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: help: Entartete Kunst Kevin: The original catalog entire is reproduced in Stephnie Barron's excellent book DEGENERATE ART The Fate of the Avant-Garde in Nazi Germany along =20= with the floor plan of the exhibit and 150 reproductions and list of al the artits etc. Actually itwas one of the first realblockbuster exhibits f the = 20th century, drawing 3 million people in its travels--ironically making the degenarte art a huge hit and seen by far more poeple than the =20 opfficially apporved National Socialist Art. Another weird twist is that included in the exhibit to show the degeneracy of the modern artists on dispaly were works from the famous Prinzhorn collection of art by by the insane. Prinzhorn's book =20 BILDNEREI DER GEISTESKRANKEN had had an immense impact on the work of Klee and =20 many other artists as well as the Surrealists and led in part to Dubuffet's development of Art Brut collections and the beginnings of recognitions =20= of outsider art. The Nazis reversed the direction by hanging the mentally =20= ill alongside those they had influenced to show not the artistic merit of =20= the insane but the insanity of the artists. The Barron book also has essays making connections between the Nazis' ideas on degeneracy in =20 modern art and contemporary ones of the time period (the book came out in 1991, connected with huge exhibition in LA). > From: "kevin thurston" > > does anyone have, or can they point me to, a translation of the actual > edict > made by goebbels (i assume) regarding degenerate art? or perhaps the =20= > text > from the catalog if they made one? > > i'd appreciate it. > > -- > http://fuckinglies.blogspot.com > > http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/thepixelplus/nhdoublewide.html > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google =20 > Groups > "The Performance List" group. > To post to this group, send email to performancelist@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > performancelist-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/performancelist > -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- _________________________________________________________________ Don=92t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 15:03:52 -0700 From: Peter Quartermain Subject: NYC Readings Meredith Quartermain and I plan to be in Buffalo 12-14 October, and in =20= New York City for about a week starting 17 October. Is there any chance for =20= her to give a reading in Buffalo then, or for either or both of us to give a reading in NYC? Back-channel, please. Thanks. Peter =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Peter Quartermain 846 Keefer Street Vancouver BC Canada V6A 1Y7 604 255 8274 (voice) 604 255 8204 fax quarterm@interchange.ubc.ca =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 18:11:26 -0400 From: Simon DeDeo Subject: rhubarb is susan After more than two month's hiatus, rhubarb is back! With two reviews =20= and an audio recording. Main blog: http://rhubarbissusan.blogspot.com/ "Chicago Ontology": http://rhubarbissusan.blogspot.com/2006/08/chicago-ontology.html Douglas Barbour & Shelia Murphy: http://rhubarbissusan.blogspot.com/2006/08/douglas-barbour-shelia-=20 murphy-ix.html Natascha Saje: http://rhubarbissusan.blogspot.com/2006/08/natascha-saje-=20 acknowledgments.html Thanks for tuning in -- and don't forget you can "subscribe" to the RSS feed here: http://feeds.feedburner.com/rhubarb I hope all are having an excellent Summer. Yours, Simon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 17:29:45 -0500 From: Maria Damon Subject: Contact for Poetique??? hi all: I can't find out how to contact the french journal Poetique. Are there any French folks or folks living in Paris who have any idea how to get in touch with them? I need to find out the original German source for a Karlheinz Stierle article they published in #32 (back in 1977). Can't find an E-dress or even a mailing address, let alone a phone #. any help wd be appreciated. thanks all --md ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 19:43:59 -0400 From: "Slaughter, William" Subject: Notice: Mudlark New and On View: Mudlark Poster No. 62 (2006) Five Poems by Liz Dolan Teresa of Avila, Mystic, Reformer, Exhorts Her Sisters Marie Curie Illuminates her Research for Us Marie Curie Speaks to Pierre Sister Dorothy Stang, 72, Reflects on her Assassination The Woman Who Held Her Ground Liz Dolan is a wife, mother, grandmother, retired English teacher; she =20= is most proud of the alternative school she ran in the Bronx. She has eight grandchildren who live on the next block. One, David, has Downs =20 Syndrome; he was born when she was grieving the loss of three family members in =20= four months, one, an infant born dead. Now she knows David came to help her heal. Liz has published poems, memoir and short stories in The Delaware Anthology, New Delta Review, Rattle, Harpweaver, and Natural Bridge =20 among others. A Delaware Division of the Arts fellowship recipient and a Pushcart nominee in fiction, her work in Mudlark, Poster No. 54 (2004), Lost Children, was chosen for The Best of the Web del Sol. Recently accepted as an associate artist in residence with Sharon Olds at the Atlantic Center for the Arts in New Smyrna Beach, Florida, she is also =20= on the board of Philadelphia Stories. Spread the word. Far and wide, William Slaughter MUDLARK An Electronic Journal of Poetry & Poetics Never in and never out of print... E-mail: mudlark@unf.edu URL: http://www.unf.edu/mudlark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 19:44:29 EDT From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: Re: On Jessica Smith's blog: NOT ME < Subject: Re: On Jessica Smith's blog: NOT ME funny, it wouldn't have occurred to me to think "sherlock" referred to a person before you said so here! g On Mon, 7 Aug 2006, Craig Allen Conrad wrote: > < circulating > that I'm the one that < unequivocally, for > all time, that the person on her blog < ANYTHING TO > HIDE!!! To those of you who've been < It's NOT > TRUE. Go pin the tail on someone else, you < stopping > "Sherlocks". I don't do things like that, never have. Period. > << Eat a peach, > << Adam Fieled > > Adam Fielded, you owe Frank Sherlock a VERY PUBLIC apology for using =20= > his > name here. > He did not spread any rumors about you. Nor did I. In fact, the =20 > person who > suspected you > came to me with their framework of suspicions and I told them NO WAY. = =20 > I > told them that I > would not back them up because it wasn't clear who was attacking =20 > Jessica > White. > > A little advice dear Adam, JUST BECAUSE you think you're clever =20 > doesn't mean > you are. > > When you start that Ph.D. program next month you might want to = consider > doing some > research before presenting your assumptions. Assumptions will get =20= > your > not-so-clever > ass into trouble. > > SUFFERING SUCCOTASH! CAConrad > > CAConrad is the author of Deviant Propulsion (Soft Skull Press, 2006) > for poem samples from the book go to: _http://CAConrad.blogspot.com_ > (http://caconrad.blogspot.com/) > "Those who restrain desire, do so because theirs is weak enough to be > restrained...." > --William Blake > for PhillySound: NEW POETRY: _http://PhillySound.blogspot.com_ > (http://phillysound.blogspot.com/) > for CAConrad's tarot services:_ http://LightOfLakshmi.blogspot.com_ > (http://lightoflakshmi.blogspot.com/) > gabrielle welford welford@hawaii.edu Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.595 / Virus Database: 378 - Release Date: 2/25/2004 wilhelm reich anarcho-syndicalism gut/heart/head/earth ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 23:03:19 EDT From: Larissa Shmailo Subject: THE FEMINIST POETS IN LOW-CUT BLOUSES EQUAL OPPORTUNITY READING =3D20 The Feminist Poets in Low-Cut Blouses welcome men. =3D20 Where would we be without them? =3D20 (Sane, solvent, slim?)=3D20 Sliding Scale Poetry presents=3D20 THE FEMINIST POETS IN LOW-CUT BLOUSES=3D20 EQUAL OPPORTUNITY READING=3D20 Sunday August 13=3D20 5-7 p.m.=3D20 The Bowery Poetry Club=3D20 308 Bowery between Houston and Bleecker=3D20 (across from CBGB's)=3D20 F to Delancey; 6 to Bleecker=3D20 $6=3D20 Information: 212-712-9865=3D20 _slidingsca@aol.com_ (mailto:slidingsca@aol.com) =3D20 STARRING:=3D20 Madeline Artenberg=3D20 Mallie Boman=3D20 Steve Dalachinsky=3D20 Robert Dunn=3D20 Nemo Hill=3D20 Brant Lyon=3D20 Susan Maurer=3D20 Iris N. Schwartz=3D20 Larissa Shmailo=3D20 SPECIAL GUEST EMCEE: Chocolate Waters=3D20 (Drag, dear audience, is entirely optional, but remember the Feminist =20= Poet=3D20 in Low- Cut Blouses motto: Sometimes, one button less is more . . =20 .)=3D20 About the Feminist Poets in Low-Cut Blouses=3D20 and the men who dare read with us:=3D20 Madeline Artenberg performs frequently in NYC, including at the =20 Bowery=3D20 Poetry Club, backed by David Amram. Her work appears in print and =20 online jo=3D urnals,=3D20 such as Absinthe Literary Review, she has garnered poetry awards =20 (e.g.,=3D20 Semi-Finalist in the Margie 2005 contest), and her book Awakened (with =20= poem=3D s by=3D20 Iris N. Schwartz) was published by Rogue Scholars Press in April =20 2006.=3D20 Mallie Boman is a renaissance person who has worked in theatre, film, =20= radio=3D20 as a writer, director, performer, entrepreneur, producer, teacher. A =20= tai c=3D hi =3D20 master, she follows her breath, heart and vision, winning awards from =20= mayors=3D =3D20 in 2 countries, writing poetry and award-winning plays, performs in =20 MONA=3D20 LISA, BUDDHA & ME and was part of NOW Free Theatre, the first feminist =20= thea=3D tre =3D20 company in NYC. Mallie is currently traveling and directing several =3D20= documentaries about people and works that inspire her. =20 _www.bambooandbone.c=3D om_=3D20 (http://www.bambooandbone.com/) =3D20 steve dalachinsky=3DE2=3D80=3D99s widely-published work has appeared = in Big =20 Brid=3D ge, Milk,=3D20 Ratapallax, Evergreen Review, Long Shot, and N.Y. Arts Magazine. He =20= is =3D20 anthologized as Beat Indeed, The Haiku Moment and the esteemed Outlaw =20= Bible=3D20=3D of =3D20 American Poetry. His acclaimed 1999 CD, Incomplete Direction (Knitting =20= Facto=3D ry =3D20 Records) is a collection of his poetry read in collaboration with =20 musicians=3D20=3D =3D20 William Parker, Matthew Shipp, Daniel Carter, Sabir Mateen, Thurston =20 Moore =3D20 (SonicYouth), Vernon Reid (Living Colour). His most recent chapbooks =20= includ=3D e=3D20 Musicology (Editions Pioche, Paris 2005) and Lautreamont's Laments =20 (Furnitu=3D re=3D20 Press 2005. His books include A Superintendent's Eyes (Hozomeen Press =20= 2000)=3D =3D20 and The Final Nite. His latest CD is Phenomena of Interference, a =20 collabora=3D tion=3D20 with pianist Matthew Shipp (Hopscotch Records 2005). =3D20 Writer/artist Robert Dunn is the author of such books as Zen Yentas =20 in=3D20 Bondage, Horse Latitudes, and Baffled in Baloneyville. He has served =20= as Edi=3D tor of=3D20 Medicinal Purposes Literary Review and The New Press Literary =20 Quarterly. Mr=3D .=3D20 Dunn=3DE2=3D80=3D99s poetry has appeared around the world, which is = more =20 than you=3D can say=3D20 for him. He lives, works, and plays checkers with raisins on waffles =20= in New=3D =3D20 York City. Raisins, he finds, are very hard to crown.=3D20 Abandoned by his parents, R. NEMO HILL was raised by gay werewolves. =20= In th=3D e=3D20 early eighties he was convicted of locking himself overnight in the =20 basemen=3D t=3D20 of the local post office, and licking all the stamps. As punishment =20= for=3D20 this reckless criminal act he was forced to publish, in collaboration =20= with=3D =3D20 painter Jeanne Hedstrom, an illustrated novel based upon the =20 processes of=3D20 medieval alchemy (Pilgrim=3DE2=3D80=3D99s Feather, Quantuck Lane =20 Press)=3DE2=3D80=3D94=3D20=3D as well as a =3D20 book-length poem in heroic couplets, based upon a short story by H. P. =20= Lovec=3D raft =3D20 (The Strange Music of Erich Zann, Hippocampus Press.) =3D20 Brant Lyon has featured his poetry and music at nearly all the =20 expectable=3D20 places of good and ill repute: Bowery Poetry Club, Cornelia Street =20 Cafe, 13=3D th =3D20 St. Reperatory Theatre, The Lower East Side Festival, Gathering of =20 the=3D20 Tribes, Shutters Cafe, Central Park Bandshell, etc., etc. And been =20 publish=3D ed =3D20 here and there, but not enough to his satisfaction: in Rattle, =20 Lullwater Re=3D view,=3D20 several issues of Salonika, Rogue Scholars, nycBigCityLit, The Long=3D20 Islander, and others. He is, hat in hand, whorishly shopping around =20 for a p=3D ublisher=3D20 for his first collection of poetry. He runs the monthly 'jazzoetry' =20 series,=3D =3D20 "Hydrogen Jukebox" at 5C Caf=3DC3=3DA9. Feminist? He used to play with = =20 dolls.=3D20=3D You=3D20 figure it out! =3D20 Susan Maurer is the author By the Blue Light of the Morning Glory, =20= Linea=3D r=3D20 Art. She has been in over a hundred different journals and anthologies =20= (in=3D20 ten countries) including Literary Imagination, Cross Connect, =20 Virginia=3D20 Quarterly Review, Orbis, The Unbearables' Help Yourself!, Autonomedia, =20= and=3D20=3D Soft=3D20 Skull's Off the Cuffs. She has been nominated for a Pushcart by three =20= and h=3D as=3D20 new chapbook with Mark Sonnefield published by Marymark Press, 2005. =20= =3D20 Iris N. Schwartz has poetry anthologized in An Eye for an Eye Makes =20= the=3D20 Whole World Blind, and in Listening to the Birth of Crystals, and in =20 such =3D20 journals as Erbacce and Pikeville Review. Her novella was anthologized =20= in T=3D hat's=3D20 Amore!, her short stories in Stirring Up A Storm and elsewhere. Iris =20= has=3D20 featured at Cornelia St. Caf=3DC3=3DA9 and KGB Bar, among other venues, = =20 and on=3D20=3D radio,=3D20 on-line interactive TV, and Internet radio. Her book of poetry with =20 Madelin=3D e=3D20 Artenberg, Awakened, was recently published by Rogue Scholars Press.=3D20= Larissa Shmailo has read with the Black Panthers, for the Writer's =20 Harvest=3D =3D20 against Hunger, at the Knitting Factory, and countless other national =20= venue=3D s.=3D20 She has received "Critic's Pick" notices and critical acclaim for =20 her=3D20 readings and radio performances from the New York Times, the Village =20= Voic=3D e, and=3D20 Time Out magazine. Larissa has been published in scores of books, =20 journals=3D20=3D =3D20 and web sites ranging from Newsweek, Ratapallax, poetz.com, the =20 American=3D20 Translator's Slavfile, and Street News. She is the translator of =20 Russian F=3D uturist=3D20 opera Victory over the Sun with art by Kasimir Malevich; the opera =20 was=3D20 performed at Brooklyn Academy of Music's Next Wave Festival, the Los =20= Angel=3D es=3D20 County Museum, the Smithsonian, and internationally. Her poetry CD, =20 The No-=3D Net =3D20 World, is available at _http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/shmailo_=3D20 (http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/shmailo) , at _www.tower.com_ =20 (http://www.tower.=3D com/) , at St Marks NYC,=3D20 City Lights SF, and other bookstores. With Chocolate Waters, she =20 teaches th=3D e=3D20 class PUBLISH & PERFORM, or PERISH!=3D20 Chocolate Waters, a pioneer in the art of performance poetry, has =20 been=3D20 delighting audiences for over three decades. She has toured the U. S. =20= and=3D20=3D parts=3D20 of Canada and is an active participant in the New York poetry =20 circuit. A N=3D ew=3D20 York Foundation for the Arts fellow and a recipient of a grant from =20 the=3D20 Barbara Deming Memorial Fund, Waters has produced three collections of =20= work=3D which=3D20 are considered classics of the early women=3DE2=3D80=3D99s movement. Her = work =20 has=3D20=3D appeared=3D20 in hundreds of publications, both in print and online Her latest =20 endeavor,=3D20=3D a=3D20 CD entitled Chocolate Waters Uncensored, is available at her web =20 site.=3D20 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 23:20:06 -0400 From: Peter Ciccariello Subject: more out of closeness to her Visualizing the unspeakable. http://tinyurl.com/lgo3t -- Peter Ciccariello http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/ ------------------------------ End of POETICS Digest - 6 Aug 2006 to 7 Aug 2006 (#2006-220) ************************************************************ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 19:32:55 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: [NEOLOGISMS] A month of neologisms In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > blendmodern > > post mortem post modern > > > > popmanteau > > all trends all styles simultaneously "If the sequencer has become the paradigm for interpreting reality via its organization of flows of information through a continuous scan, then the Pianolina, generator of random encounters between notes, is a good metaphor for entropy." (Valentina Culatti from neural.it) http://www.grotrian.de/spiel/e/info.html ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 00:43:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fluffy Singler Subject: Re: C'mon kids, let's go to Army World! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I wish I could I say I'm surprised. The community where I did my undergraduate work was devastated by the farm crisis in the 1980s and the local arsenal, which was shipping arms to Central America, became the largest employer in the area (and people were desperately afraid of losing even more jobs). The arsenal had an annual "armed forces day" where you could come and tour the facility, take the kids on tank rides, etc. They would actually advertise it with pictures of kids in tanks, in fact. LW -----Original Message----- From: Craig Allen Conrad [mailto:CAConrad9@AOL.COM] Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 3:56 PM Subject: C'mon kids, let's go to Army World! C'mon kids, let's go to Army World! My friend Matt McGoldrick just sent me this! IT'S NUTS! _http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/08/08/military.theme.park.ap/index.html_ (http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/08/08/military.theme.park.ap/index.html) CAConrad is the author of Deviant Propulsion (Soft Skull Press, 2006) for poem samples from the book go to: _http://CAConrad.blogspot.com_ (http://caconrad.blogspot.com/) "Those who restrain desire, do so because theirs is weak enough to be restrained...." --William Blake for PhillySound: NEW POETRY: _http://PhillySound.blogspot.com_ (http://phillysound.blogspot.com/) for CAConrad's tarot services:_ http://LightOfLakshmi.blogspot.com_ (http://lightoflakshmi.blogspot.com/) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 03:14:45 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Fw: Re: "A Remembrance of Hiroshima" 6 August 1945 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit my wife's from nagasaki she's in fact going back there to day for a coupla weeks for the bon fest she and i disgree the bomb was very bad news but 2nd onw tho in our opinion wrog as was first was not terrorism but blatant act of experimentation coupled with the fact that japan military and hirohito were still not prepared to surrender and even when they did it was sadly aug 15 during thebon fest and he used the possibly invasion by russia as the reason he being as were the military true terrorists ie forcing young intellectuals to become sfirst recorded suicide bombers yes and nagasaki was the center of christian faith and there was and american pow camp in hiroshima as there was in dresden where even more were killed ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 03:41:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: DIRT #3 RELEASE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit heyphil i wanna be in dirt what gives ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 02:37:45 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Authentic cat poetry? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Authentic cat poetry? http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7199158973758073420 O my dog O Long John O Long Johnson O Don Piano Why I eyes ya All the live long day. ja? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 08:13:27 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lori Emerson Subject: Fwd: New Flowers of Evil translation In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Wesleyan Press Date: Aug 4, 2006 9:31 AM Subject: New Flowers of Evil translation To: lori.emerson@gmail.com We are pleased to announce an exciting new translation of Baudelaire's The Flowers of Evil, by Keith Waldrop. This modernist poetic masterpiece is one of the most frequently read and studied works in the French language. In this compelling new translation of Baudelaire's most famous collection, Keith Waldrop recasts the poet's original French alexandrines and other poetic arrangements into versets, a form that hovers between poetry and prose. Maintaining Baudelaire's complex view of sound and structure, Waldrop's translation mirrors the intricacy of the original without attempting to replicate its inimitable verse. The result is a powerful new re-imagining, one that is, almost paradoxically, closer to Baudelaire's own poetry than any previous English translation. Including the six poems banned from the first edition, this Flowers of Evil preserves the complexity, eloquence, and dark humor of its author. For more details, click http://www.upne.com/0-8195-6799-X.html ORDERING DETAILS: SAVE 20% if you order from the web site and use discount code W300! Use the link above. Or order through your favorite bookseller, or by calling University Press of New England at 1-800-421-1561 (or 603-643-5585). Shipping charges are $5.00 for the first book and $1.25 for each additional. In CANADA, order through the University of British Columbia Press at (800) 668-0821 or email orders@gtwcanada.com. In EUROPE, order through Eurospan at +44 (0) 207 240 0856 or email orders@edspubs.co.uk. Academic users may order an Examination Copy for potential course adoption. Please request a copy of the book in a letter, on your institutional letterhead, and include $5.00 for shipping (check, MasterCard, Visa, Discover, AmEx). Mail your request to: UPNE, Attn: Exam Copies, 1 Court Street, Suite 250, Lebanon, NH 03766-1358, USA or fax to (603) 448-9429. ****************** You are receiving this e-mail because one of our authors provided us with your contact information, or you have used one of our books, published a book with us, placed an order, or subscribed through our web site. If you do not wish to receive e-mail from us, please reply to this message and let us know-you WILL reach a real human being. We never, EVER rent, sell, or share our email list. Your address is safe with us. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 08:00:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: more out of closeness to her In-Reply-To: <8f3fdbad0608072020u55241b54gb7dd66ad35c9ada2@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" couldn't access this... At 11:20 PM -0400 8/7/06, Peter Ciccariello wrote: >Visualizing the unspeakable. >http://tinyurl.com/lgo3t > > > > >-- Peter Ciccariello >http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 09:48:00 -0300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: bethborrus Subject: Remove me from list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Message-Boundary-by-Mail-Sender-1155127679" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --Message-Boundary-by-Mail-Sender-1155127679 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-description: Mail message body Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Content-disposition: inline Please remove me from your mailing list. Thank you. Beth Borrus --Message-Boundary-by-Mail-Sender-1155127679-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 07:08:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adam Fieled Subject: New spoken word EP: "Virtual Pinball/Madame Psychosis" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I'm putting out a spoken word EP, "Virtual Pinball/Madame Psychosis", on the Webster Street Gang label, run by Radio Eris mastermind Matt Stevenson. Matt was the sound-guy on July 29th at the Highwire, if that helps you remember him. Here's the track list: isla perdida this is a song (about how I'm a monkey) Virtual Pinball debbie jaffe 14 Bricks lizzie mclean debra harnigan eye eye eye lucy stingle Hell In Dick Cheney's Brain These poems have variously appeared in Mipoesias, MipoRadio, Nth Position, and As/Is. If you're interested in obtaining a copy, shoot me an email (afieled@yahoo.com), or buzz me if you have my number, & we'll "git-r-done". --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 10:34:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lucas Klein Subject: Re: Nastiness & the end MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Alex, =20 Thank you for this response. You=92re right that you haven=92t insulted = me, and I=92m glad for it. But I=92d also like to point out again that I = didn=92t criticize Paul=92s opinion or his views; I criticized how he expressed = those opinions and views. =20 We could continue talking about virtue and where it exists vis-=E0-vis criticism. Suffice it to say that I think of criticism as a very = virtuous act, regardless of how much cultural relativism we want to bring into = the discussion; this is not to say that individual acts of criticism may, in = the way they are expressed, sacrifice their virtue, but again, that=92s a different issue (of course, if I=92m guilty of such lost virtue due to = badly expressed criticism=97did I sink to his level?=97then the question is = then about the worth of my criticism on a scale of what I=92ve achieved and what = I=92ve lost. But that=92s something I=92d prefer not to discuss in abstract = terms, and probably isn=92t worth public discussion on the Poetics list). While I = gather that a few others on this list also disagree that criticism could be absolutely virtue-less, I also get the sense that this discussion is = losing steam, and so I don=92t need to see an argument that ends only in = complete agreement of all sides. =20 But rather than talk about virtue (and yes, I acknowledge that I brought = the terms into the discussion), I=92d prefer to talk about self-interest. So = let me put it this way: at a certain level, I see much of the purpose of = life to be in gaining allies and achieving results through unity with those = allies. As members of the Poetics list, I think we=92re here to make allies with = each other and find ways to move our poetry forward; politics has often = entered into the discussion, and I think it=92s done for the same purpose: to = make political progress with the help of our allies. When arguments happen, I view them as an ironing out of the wrinkles that occur in finding = allies, or in other words, we argue so we can reach agreement with and have a = better understanding of our allies. If our arguments end up, instead, in = alienating us from our potential allies, then I think we=92re actually working = against our best self-interests. And that=92s what I was criticizing when I = wrote about how Paul expressed himself, and that=92s what I was criticizing = when I wrote about how you were attacking Marcus. I just don=92t think it=92s = in our best self-interest to express ourselves that way, virtue or no. =20 I could put it another way: if I want you to listen to me, and I feel = like I=92m not getting through, in my frustration I might feel like shouting something like GOD DAMN IT WHY THE FUCK DON=92T YOU FUCKING LISTEN TO ME = YOU FUCKING MOTHERFUCKER! But I don=92t think that=92s going to put anyone = in a mood to listen to me! My interests would be better served, I think, by being patient and generous and trying to find a better way to express myself, = to find a way to express myself in a way you=92ll actually want to listen = to. =20 That has no bearing on the matter expressed, of course. And that=92s why = I=92m firm on the point that I didn=92t criticize Paul=92s opinions. The fact = is, I don=92t know enough about the middle-east to feel comfortable making = much criticism to begin with. I have my recourse mode=97critical of US = foreign policy, sympathetic with innocent victims everywhere=97but I don=92t = know enough to engage in a critical discussion. Contrast this with my criticism of = your views, Alex, where you say that there is no virtue in criticism. I=92m critical of your opinion, and not with how you express yourself (at = least to me). I think these are=97or at least can be=97completely separate = issues. And I also think that the point is to gain allies and make progress. I see criticism as an essential=97even virtuous=97part of that process, but = only when the criticism is, as they say, constructive, only when the goal is to strengthen our allegiance and weaken the stance of our enemies. =20 And I consider no one on this list my enemy. =20 Lucas =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Lucas, First, my initial comment was to you, not to Marcus, or to others. = Perhaps a backchannel might have diffused matters earlier, for I did never = intend to insult you. If you took insult at my response to your comments to Paul, then, clearly, I wrote poorly. =20 Second, Well said here! Third and final...I disagree. =20 Your comments with and, more importantly 'at' Paul serve only to = underscore the idea: you have an opinion and Paul has an opinion...your criticism = of his opinion is virtue-less. To assume otherwise is to assume your = opinion has a greater moral (virtuous) value than his opinion. And in truth, it does not.=20 On that point, I again utter, there is no virtue in criticism. =20 However, you are accurate in your details. I deserve my lumps for my = role in having moved the discussion to an almost out of control position. I = may have been a tad too sensitive to Marcus' silly question, and to his follow-on bit of inane and somewhat flippant remark. (And, YES!!! that = is my personal opinion: "silly" question and "flippant" remark. As the = recipient of the communication, I am entitled to my personal feelings regarding = the intent of the author...had Marcus intended other than to snidely snipe = me with his brevity, he'd have taken the time, as you did here Lucas, to = make more than a snitty quip).=20 Lucas, neither you nor I with each other have dropped to that level of personal attack in our communications. =20 That level of deterioration only happened between Marcus and Alex...and = I add, begun by Marcus. =20 However, I'm delighted for all that followed, for, in a very minor way, = that which followed demonstrates how easy it is for opinions to command the moment? And, I stand on my moment: doesn't this demonstrate the lack of virtue in criticism? But, that's a point of the discussion which has = long been lost.=20 And, Lucas, while your intent with Paul may have been straightforward = and well-intentioned, I hold to my view regarding your commentary. You have armed the adversary, not disarmed him. And you armed him with your vitriolic response.=20 We don't need more bullets and ranting from either side of the = discussion regarding the mess in the Middle-East...we need people to sit and talk = more and shoot less. =20 Criticism of the views of your adversary...verbal, or otherwise...only incubates further hatred and increases the level of criticism. I think = we have seen that here in the minor responses made between Marcus and me. =20 Sorry, I hold to my view...there is no virtue in that criticism. Lucas, we are not discussing here whether an essayist or a poet = misapplied a metrical pattern in the "X" stanza of his or her Canto. Critical = commentary on that level may hold some value for both the creator and the audience/readership, but in this instance, there are no bullets or bombs = nor will there be people dying. =20 The world doesn't need more criticism regarding the Middle-East; what we = do need is for the highly opinionated (mostly religious opinions) = adversaries to shut the hell up and actually listen to each other. It is entirely possible both sides have something of value (not virtue) to bring to the discussion. =20 Finally, Lucas, I would ask you to examine the base meaning of the word virtue. Inherent in the context of that word is a critical opinion in = and of itself: "...the quality of doing what is right and avoiding doing what = is wrong." =20 One must demand: by whose standards? If the standards are by the = Western European Christians, one may not necessarily be in harmony with, say, certain Muslim sects, or even various other religious sects. =20 How does one cope with the issue of the differences in values regarding = the definition of right and wrong to underscore the meaning of the word = virtue? Thank you for your thoughtful comments, and I do wish you well. =20 Let us hold to this point: we disagree.=20 But, we may do so with respect for each other's POV.=20 This may be one of the reasons I don't want to go to heaven...all the = folks there will hold to the same beliefs. Boring? I should think so. =20 Alex=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 ________________________________________ "There are two ways of knowing, under standing and over bearing. The first is called wisdom. The second is called winning arguments." =97Kenneth Rexroth Lucas Klein LKlein@cipherjournal.com 216 Willow Street New Haven, CT 06511 ph: 203 676 0629 www.CipherJournal.com www.CipherJournal.blogspot.com =20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 10:25:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: karlheinz stierle contact info?? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" hi, any germans on the list who have contact info for Karlheinz Stierle? thanks! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 17:27:54 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Recent Nomadics blog posts Comments: cc: BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, Lucifer Poetics Group , Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Recent Nomadics blog posts: Nietzsche's Rock Bernard No=EBl on Lebanon Tibet, Turkey, Lebanon "fifty friends in Lebanon" James L. Weil (1929-2006) Vaneigem's Imaginary Journal apologies for crossposting Pierre =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism,since it is the merger of state and corporate power." =97 Benito Mussolini =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D Pierre Joris 244 Elm Street Albany NY 12202 home: 518 426 0433 cell: 518 225 7123 office: 518 442 40 85 Paris: 01 43 54 95 13 French cell: 06 75 43 57 10 email: joris@albany.edu http://pierrejoris.com Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 11:32:12 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AMBogle2@AOL.COM Subject: Poets & memoir MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear list folk: A more interesting question for me this week relates to poets writing memoir. When I met up with poet, Tony Sanders, again after a long break from school, we stayed on the phone for two or three days while he told the story of living in Alaska. I had never had this kind of experience before except by reading. It felt like reading a book to listen to him: an emotional and scenic poet's volume. I told him I thought he should write it, that it would make a wonderful book, and he said he didn't believe poets ought to write memoirs. He cited a bad example of a poet who'd written about having sex with his dog. Two memoirs I've read fairly recently and really liked are Bob Dylan's vol. 1 and Larry Woiwode's vol. 1. In school there was a plot afoot to get all the women to write non-fiction personal essay and autobiography, leaving fiction and poetry for the men. It only partly worked. There was another plot to get the women not to think of themselves as poets but as nursemaids. That only partly worked. One of my friends, xta, a very talented poet, backburnered her own work and put songs first. The songs were (very) good, but so were the poems. Fifteen years later, she has been self-printing some of the poems at her blog, which mostly pertains to (good) autobiography. I live in Minnesota but am not very active in the writing community here. I get out sometimes and have so far heard poetry the most. It does seem, however, that there must have been a plot afoot in Minnesota to get all the faculty women to write autobiography. Just curious about other people's ideas about writers & poets & memoir. Please cite some good ones, too. Ann Bogle ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 11:55:12 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AMBogle2@AOL.COM Subject: Poets & memoir MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Two other exciting books along these lines I've read fairly recently are Leslie Scalapino's Autobiography and Cris Mazza's Indigenous. Scalapino's reads like reluctant autobiography and is full of narrative & poetic irony; Mazza's is about growing up happily in California and about not being let back in to her native land, about being displaced to live as an academic in other states. AMB ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 11:49:15 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: heidi arnold Subject: Re: Poets & memoir In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Ann, good question -- --Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Letters and Papers from Prison, theology as memoir Andrew X. Pham, _Catfish and Mandala_ a bike trip along the Pacific Rim that leads to a boat ride to Vietnam regards, heidi On 8/9/06, AMBogle2@aol.com wrote: > > Dear list folk: > > A more interesting question for me this week relates to poets writing > memoir. > When I met up with poet, Tony Sanders, again after a long break from > school, > we stayed on the phone for two or three days while he told the story of > living in Alaska. I had never had this kind of experience before except > by > reading. It felt like reading a book to listen to him: an emotional and > scenic > poet's volume. I told him I thought he should write it, that it would > make a > wonderful book, and he said he didn't believe poets ought to write > memoirs. He > cited a bad example of a poet who'd written about having sex with his dog. > > Two memoirs I've read fairly recently and really liked are Bob Dylan's > vol. 1 > and Larry Woiwode's vol. 1. > > In school there was a plot afoot to get all the women to write non-fiction > personal essay and autobiography, leaving fiction and poetry for the > men. It > only partly worked. There was another plot to get the women not to think > of > themselves as poets but as nursemaids. That only partly worked. One of > my > friends, xta, a very talented poet, backburnered her own work and put > songs first. > The songs were (very) good, but so were the poems. Fifteen years later, > she > has been self-printing some of the poems at her blog, which mostly > pertains to > (good) autobiography. > > I live in Minnesota but am not very active in the writing community > here. I > get out sometimes and have so far heard poetry the most. It does seem, > however, that there must have been a plot afoot in Minnesota to get all > the faculty > women to write autobiography. > > Just curious about other people's ideas about writers & poets & memoir. > Please cite some good ones, too. > > Ann Bogle > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 10:59:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: Poets & memoir In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Witold Gombrowitz and Viktor Shklovsky's memoirs were great reads R -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of AMBogle2@AOL.COM Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 10:32 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Poets & memoir Dear list folk: A more interesting question for me this week relates to poets writing memoir. When I met up with poet, Tony Sanders, again after a long break from school, we stayed on the phone for two or three days while he told the story of living in Alaska. I had never had this kind of experience before except by reading. It felt like reading a book to listen to him: an emotional and scenic poet's volume. I told him I thought he should write it, that it would make a wonderful book, and he said he didn't believe poets ought to write memoirs. He cited a bad example of a poet who'd written about having sex with his dog. Two memoirs I've read fairly recently and really liked are Bob Dylan's vol. 1 and Larry Woiwode's vol. 1. In school there was a plot afoot to get all the women to write non-fiction personal essay and autobiography, leaving fiction and poetry for the men. It only partly worked. There was another plot to get the women not to think of themselves as poets but as nursemaids. That only partly worked. One of my friends, xta, a very talented poet, backburnered her own work and put songs first. The songs were (very) good, but so were the poems. Fifteen years later, she has been self-printing some of the poems at her blog, which mostly pertains to (good) autobiography. I live in Minnesota but am not very active in the writing community here. I get out sometimes and have so far heard poetry the most. It does seem, however, that there must have been a plot afoot in Minnesota to get all the faculty women to write autobiography. Just curious about other people's ideas about writers & poets & memoir. Please cite some good ones, too. Ann Bogle ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 12:20:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Garden Party with Elrick, Toscano, Kreutz, and The WoWz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable please forward ---------------- Garden Party with Olive Juice Music and Boog City This Sat., Aug. 12, 2:00 p.m., free a summer series, in the Suffolk Street Community Garden Suffolk St., bet. Houston & Stanton sts. NYC readings from Laura Elrick and Rodrigo Toscano music from Phoebe Kreutz and The WoWz Curated and with introductions by Boog City editor and publisher David Kirschenbaum and Olive Juice Music head Matt Roth --------- **Boog City is a New York City-based small press now in its 15th year =20 and East Village community newspaper of the same name. It has also =20 published 35 volumes of poetry and various magazines, featuring work =20 by Allen Ginsberg and Lawrence Ferlinghetti among others, and theme =20 issues on baseball, women's writing, and Louisville, KY. It hosts and =20 curates two regular performance series--d.a. levy lives: celebrating =20 the renegade press, where each month a non-NYC small press and its =20 writers and a musical act of their choosing is hosted at Chelsea's ACA =20 Galleries; and Classic Albums Live, where 5-13 local musical acts =20 perform a classic album live at venues including The Bowery Poetry =20 Club, CBGB's, and The Knitting Factory. Past albums have included =20 Elvis Costello, My Aim is True; Nirvana, Nevermind; and Liz Phair, =20 Exile in Guyville. **Olive Juice Music is a D.I.Y. label, studio, and mail-order =20 distributor based in New York City and interested in helping people =20 who are in the developmental stages of trying to do something with =20 their art. Olive Juice Music is not a traditional record label. The =20 artists associated with Olive Juice take an active part in how their =20 music is produced, financed, and marketed. They in turn receive more =20 of the profits gained from the sales of their records directly, which =20 is how it should be. The strength of Olive Juice relies upon the =20 active participation of its members to share resources and help =20 promote a communal spirit among everyone involved as well as claiming =20 responsibility for taking their art to wherever they would like it to =20 go. **Laura Elrick's book Fantasies in Permeable Structures is just out =20 from Factory School (2005) in Vol. 1 of the Heretical Texts series. =20 She is also the author of sKincerity (Krupskaya, 2003) and is one of =20 the featured writers on Women In the Avant Garde, an audio CD produced =20 by Narrow House Recordings in 2004. She lives in Brooklyn, New York. **Phoebe Kreutz is a little joke folk gal who likes her thrills as =20 cheap as her beer. She's always singing songs about silly stuff. This =20 past spring she headed off to confuse and delight audiences on her =20 first U.K. tour. Then she came home and will release her new album, =20 tentatively titled Feelings Up the Wazoo. **Rodrigo Toscano is the author of To Leveling Swerve (Krupskaya =20 Books, 2004), Platform (Atelos, 2003), The Disparities (Green Integer, =20 2002), and Partisans (O Books, 1999). His work has recently appeared =20 in Best American Poetry (Scribners, 2004) and War and Peace (O Books, =20 2004). His poetry has been translated into French, German, Spanish, =20 Portuguese, and Italian. Toscano is originally from San Diego and San =20 Francisco California. He lives in New York City. **The WoWz are a prolific three-piece miscellaneous band from New York =20 City who comb (and combine) the eternal dolor of Hank Williams Sr. =20 with the perverse humor of David Berman and the improbable harmonies =20 of BEATLES FOR SALE. Since 2004, they've recorded two full-length =20 records and an EP. Directions: F to Second Ave. http://olivejuicemusic.com/ http://www.thetangentpress.org/sound/Elrick.mp3 http://www.phoebekreutz.com/ http://www.myspace.com/phoebekreutz http://www.thetangentpress.org/sound/RToscano.mp3 http://www.thewowz.com/ http://www.myspace.com/thewowz Next event in series, Sat. Sept. 9 with readings from Dana Ward and TBA and music TBA --- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 11:39:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: Poets & memoir In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Boris Pasternak: I Remember Safe Conduct V. Shlovsky Mayakovsky and His Circle N. Mandelstam: her volumes of memoirs (widow of Osip Mandelstam) Arthur Rimbaud: A Season in Hell (yes, it can be considered as a memoir, among other things) Francois Villon: The Legacy & The Testament (ditto) Jack Kerouac wd note that all his work is a memoir--a "legend"-- Gerard de Nerval: Aurelia a great many volumes of Blaise Cendrars'works are memoirs (real & imagined) >From: AMBogle2@AOL.COM >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Poets & memoir >Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 11:32:12 EDT > >Dear list folk: > >A more interesting question for me this week relates to poets writing >memoir. > When I met up with poet, Tony Sanders, again after a long break from >school, >we stayed on the phone for two or three days while he told the story of >living in Alaska. I had never had this kind of experience before except by >reading. It felt like reading a book to listen to him: an emotional and >scenic >poet's volume. I told him I thought he should write it, that it would make >a >wonderful book, and he said he didn't believe poets ought to write memoirs. > He >cited a bad example of a poet who'd written about having sex with his dog. > >Two memoirs I've read fairly recently and really liked are Bob Dylan's vol. >1 >and Larry Woiwode's vol. 1. > >In school there was a plot afoot to get all the women to write non-fiction >personal essay and autobiography, leaving fiction and poetry for the men. >It >only partly worked. There was another plot to get the women not to think >of >themselves as poets but as nursemaids. That only partly worked. One of my >friends, xta, a very talented poet, backburnered her own work and put songs >first. >The songs were (very) good, but so were the poems. Fifteen years later, >she >has been self-printing some of the poems at her blog, which mostly pertains >to >(good) autobiography. > >I live in Minnesota but am not very active in the writing community here. >I >get out sometimes and have so far heard poetry the most. It does seem, >however, that there must have been a plot afoot in Minnesota to get all the >faculty >women to write autobiography. > >Just curious about other people's ideas about writers & poets & memoir. >Please cite some good ones, too. > >Ann Bogle _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 11:42:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Halle Subject: Brandi Homan @ Seven Corners Comments: To: Alex Frankel , Alehouse Editor , Becky Hilliker , Bhisham Bherwani , Bill Garvey , Bob Archambeau , "Bowen, Kristy" , brandihoman@hotmail.com, cahnmann@uga.edu, Cathy Rodriguez , chard deNiord , Cheryl Keeler , Chris Goodrich , Craig Halle , Daniel Godston , Dan Pedersen , DAVID PAVELICH , Diana Collins , Didi Menendez , ela kotkowska , "f.lord@snhu.edu" , Garin Cycholl , Heather Halle , heather pearl , Ira Sadoff , Jacqueline Gens , James DeFrain , Jay Rubin , jeffgrybash@hotmail.com, jeremy@invisible-city.com, Judith Vollmer , Jules Gibbs , Julianna McCarthy , "K. R." , "Lea C. Deschenes" , "lesliesysko@hotmail.com" , Malia Hwang-Carlos , Marie U , Mark Tardi , MartinD , Michael OLeary , Monica Halle , "Odelius, Kristy Lee" , pba1@surewest.net, Rick Wishcamper , Ross Gay , Simone Muench , Truth Thomas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Check out two poems from Brandi Homan this week on Seven Corners ( www.sevencornerspoetry.blogspot.com). Best, Steve Halle Editor PS Be sure to check out Switchback Books (http://www.switchbackbooks.com/) while you're at it! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 09:58:55 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: Poets & memoir In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I don't see why poets shouldn't write their memoirs or autobiographies. I would like to know if there is a difference between memoir and autobiography without taking a course to find out. I'm too old for school. I've been trying to write an autobiography for twenty years but never get beyond the first few pages. AMBogle2@AOL.COM wrote: Dear list folk: A more interesting question for me this week relates to poets writing memoir. When I met up with poet, Tony Sanders, again after a long break from school, we stayed on the phone for two or three days while he told the story of living in Alaska. I had never had this kind of experience before except by reading. It felt like reading a book to listen to him: an emotional and scenic poet's volume. I told him I thought he should write it, that it would make a wonderful book, and he said he didn't believe poets ought to write memoirs. He cited a bad example of a poet who'd written about having sex with his dog. Two memoirs I've read fairly recently and really liked are Bob Dylan's vol. 1 and Larry Woiwode's vol. 1. In school there was a plot afoot to get all the women to write non-fiction personal essay and autobiography, leaving fiction and poetry for the men. It only partly worked. There was another plot to get the women not to think of themselves as poets but as nursemaids. That only partly worked. One of my friends, xta, a very talented poet, backburnered her own work and put songs first. The songs were (very) good, but so were the poems. Fifteen years later, she has been self-printing some of the poems at her blog, which mostly pertains to (good) autobiography. I live in Minnesota but am not very active in the writing community here. I get out sometimes and have so far heard poetry the most. It does seem, however, that there must have been a plot afoot in Minnesota to get all the faculty women to write autobiography. Just curious about other people's ideas about writers & poets & memoir. Please cite some good ones, too. Ann Bogle --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 12:12:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: Poets & memoir In-Reply-To: <20060809165855.41536.qmail@web31106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Memoir's about you, Tom. Autobiography's about your car. Hal Serving the tristate area. Halvard Johnson =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D halvard@gmail.com halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Aug 9, 2006, at 11:58 AM, Thomas savage wrote: > I don't see why poets shouldn't write their memoirs or =20 > autobiographies. I would like to know if there is a difference =20 > between memoir and autobiography without taking a course to find =20 > out. I'm too old for school. I've been trying to write an =20 > autobiography for twenty years but never get beyond the first few =20 > pages. > > AMBogle2@AOL.COM wrote: Dear list folk: > > A more interesting question for me this week relates to poets =20 > writing memoir. > When I met up with poet, Tony Sanders, again after a long break =20 > from school, > we stayed on the phone for two or three days while he told the =20 > story of > living in Alaska. I had never had this kind of experience before =20 > except by > reading. It felt like reading a book to listen to him: an emotional =20= > and scenic > poet's volume. I told him I thought he should write it, that it =20 > would make a > wonderful book, and he said he didn't believe poets ought to write =20 > memoirs. He > cited a bad example of a poet who'd written about having sex with =20 > his dog. > > Two memoirs I've read fairly recently and really liked are Bob =20 > Dylan's vol. 1 > and Larry Woiwode's vol. 1. > > In school there was a plot afoot to get all the women to write non-=20 > fiction > personal essay and autobiography, leaving fiction and poetry for =20 > the men. It > only partly worked. There was another plot to get the women not to =20 > think of > themselves as poets but as nursemaids. That only partly worked. One =20= > of my > friends, xta, a very talented poet, backburnered her own work and =20 > put songs first. > The songs were (very) good, but so were the poems. Fifteen years =20 > later, she > has been self-printing some of the poems at her blog, which mostly =20 > pertains to > (good) autobiography. > > I live in Minnesota but am not very active in the writing community =20= > here. I > get out sometimes and have so far heard poetry the most. It does seem, > however, that there must have been a plot afoot in Minnesota to get =20= > all the faculty > women to write autobiography. > > Just curious about other people's ideas about writers & poets & =20 > memoir. > Please cite some good ones, too. > > Ann Bogle > > > =09 > --------------------------------- > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. =20 > Great rates starting at 1=A2/min. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 13:20:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: Poets & memoir MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Best title for a poet's memoir I can recall: Neruda: Confieso que he vivido A really interesting one to read is Alfred Kreymborg's TROUBADOR -- worth it just for the story of the day he and Willams took Marianne Moore to a baseball game -- On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 11:39:21 +0000, David-Baptiste Chirot wrote: > Boris Pasternak: I Remember > Safe Conduct > V. Shlovsky Mayakovsky and His Circle > N. Mandelstam: her volumes of memoirs (widow of Osip Mandelstam) > Arthur Rimbaud: A Season in Hell (yes, it can be considered as a memoir, > among other things) > Francois Villon: The Legacy & The Testament (ditto) > Jack Kerouac wd note that all his work is a memoir--a "legend"-- > Gerard de Nerval: Aurelia > a great many volumes of Blaise Cendrars'works are memoirs (real & imagined) > > >From: AMBogle2@AOL.COM > >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >Subject: Poets & memoir > >Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 11:32:12 EDT > > > >Dear list folk: > > > >A more interesting question for me this week relates to poets writing > >memoir. > > When I met up with poet, Tony Sanders, again after a long break from > >school, > >we stayed on the phone for two or three days while he told the story of > >living in Alaska. I had never had this kind of experience before except by > >reading. It felt like reading a book to listen to him: an emotional and > >scenic > >poet's volume. I told him I thought he should write it, that it would make > >a > >wonderful book, and he said he didn't believe poets ought to write memoirs. > > He > >cited a bad example of a poet who'd written about having sex with his dog. > > > >Two memoirs I've read fairly recently and really liked are Bob Dylan's vol. > >1 > >and Larry Woiwode's vol. 1. > > > >In school there was a plot afoot to get all the women to write non-fiction > >personal essay and autobiography, leaving fiction and poetry for the men. > >It > >only partly worked. There was another plot to get the women not to think > >of > >themselves as poets but as nursemaids. That only partly worked. One of my > >friends, xta, a very talented poet, backburnered her own work and put songs > >first. > >The songs were (very) good, but so were the poems. Fifteen years later, > >she > >has been self-printing some of the poems at her blog, which mostly pertains > >to > >(good) autobiography. > > > >I live in Minnesota but am not very active in the writing community here. > >I > >get out sometimes and have so far heard poetry the most. It does seem, > >however, that there must have been a plot afoot in Minnesota to get all the > >faculty > >women to write autobiography. > > > >Just curious about other people's ideas about writers & poets & memoir. > >Please cite some good ones, too. > > > >Ann Bogle > > _________________________________________________________________ > Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® > Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 13:25:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: Poets & memoir MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain a memoir is an autobiography written to get on the now already gone memoir band wagon in publishing and creative writing programs -- On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 09:58:55 +0000, Thomas savage wrote: > I don't see why poets shouldn't write their memoirs or autobiographies. I would like to know if there is a difference between memoir and autobiography without taking a course to find out. I'm too old for school. I've been trying to write an autobiography for twenty years but never get beyond the first few pages. > > AMBogle2@AOL.COM wrote: Dear list folk: > > A more interesting question for me this week relates to poets writing memoir. > When I met up with poet, Tony Sanders, again after a long break from school, > we stayed on the phone for two or three days while he told the story of > living in Alaska. I had never had this kind of experience before except by > reading. It felt like reading a book to listen to him: an emotional and scenic > poet's volume. I told him I thought he should write it, that it would make a > wonderful book, and he said he didn't believe poets ought to write memoirs. He > cited a bad example of a poet who'd written about having sex with his dog. > > Two memoirs I've read fairly recently and really liked are Bob Dylan's vol. 1 > and Larry Woiwode's vol. 1. > > In school there was a plot afoot to get all the women to write non-fiction > personal essay and autobiography, leaving fiction and poetry for the men. It > only partly worked. There was another plot to get the women not to think of > themselves as poets but as nursemaids. That only partly worked. One of my > friends, xta, a very talented poet, backburnered her own work and put songs first. > The songs were (very) good, but so were the poems. Fifteen years later, she > has been self-printing some of the poems at her blog, which mostly pertains to > (good) autobiography. > > I live in Minnesota but am not very active in the writing community here. I > get out sometimes and have so far heard poetry the most. It does seem, > however, that there must have been a plot afoot in Minnesota to get all the faculty > women to write autobiography. > > Just curious about other people's ideas about writers & poets & memoir. > Please cite some good ones, too. > > Ann Bogle > > > > --------------------------------- > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 13:30:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christopher Leland Winks Subject: Re: Poets & memoir In-Reply-To: <200608091720.NAA01750@webmail19.cac.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Which=2C in his own memoir =22Paginas vueltas=2C=22 Nicolas Guillen (no = friend = to Neruda=2C despite their shared communist affiliations) parodied = as =22Confieso que he bebido=2E=22 Notoriously thin-skinned=2C Guillen = was = offended at Meruda=27s passing jibe referring to *Jorge* Guillen as =22e= l = otro=2C el bueno=2E=22 = ----- Original Message ----- From=3A ALDON L NIELSEN =3Caln10=40PSU=2EEDU=3E Date=3A Wednesday=2C August 9=2C 2006 1=3A20 pm Subject=3A Re=3A Poets =26 memoir =3E Best title for a poet=27s memoir I can recall=3A =3E = =3E Neruda=3A Confieso que he vivido =3E = =3E = =3E = =3E A really interesting one to read is Alfred Kreymborg=27s TROUBADOR -= - =3E worth it =3E just for the story of the day he and Willams took Marianne Moore = =3E to a baseball =3E game -- = =3E = =3E On Wed=2C 09 Aug 2006 11=3A39=3A21 +0000=2C David-Baptiste Chirot wr= ote=3A =3E = =3E =3E Boris Pasternak=3A I Remember =3E =3E Safe Conduct =3E =3E V=2E Shlovsky Mayakovsky and His Circle =3E =3E N=2E Mandelstam=3A her volumes of memoirs (widow of Osip Mande= lstam) =3E =3E Arthur Rimbaud=3A A Season in Hell (yes=2C it can be considered= as = =3E a memoir=2C = =3E =3E among other things) =3E =3E Francois Villon=3A The Legacy =26 The Testament (ditto) =3E =3E Jack Kerouac wd note that all his work is a memoir--a =22legend=22= -- =3E =3E Gerard de Nerval=3A Aurelia =3E =3E a great many volumes of Blaise Cendrars=27works are memoirs (rea= l = =3E =26 imagined) =3E =3E = =3E =3E =3EFrom=3A AMBogle2=40AOL=2ECOM =3E =3E =3EReply-To=3A UB Poetics discussion group = =3E =3CPOETICS=40LISTSERV=2EBUFFALO=2EEDU=3E=3E =3ETo=3A POETICS=40LISTS= ERV=2EBUFFALO=2EEDU =3E =3E =3ESubject=3A Poets =26 memoir =3E =3E =3EDate=3A Wed=2C 9 Aug 2006 11=3A32=3A12 EDT =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3EDear list folk=3A =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3EA more interesting question for me this week relates to poets= = =3E writing = =3E =3E =3Ememoir=2E =3E =3E =3E When I met up with poet=2C Tony Sanders=2C again after a lo= ng = =3E break from = =3E =3E =3Eschool=2C =3E =3E =3Ewe stayed on the phone for two or three days while he told th= e = =3E story of =3E =3E =3Eliving in Alaska=2E I had never had this kind of experience = =3E before except by =3E =3E =3Ereading=2E It felt like reading a book to listen to him=3A a= n = =3E emotional and = =3E =3E =3Escenic =3E =3E =3Epoet=27s volume=2E I told him I thought he should write it=2C= that = =3E it would make = =3E =3E =3Ea =3E =3E =3Ewonderful book=2C and he said he didn=27t believe poets ought= to = =3E write memoirs=2E = =3E =3E =3E He =3E =3E =3Ecited a bad example of a poet who=27d written about having se= x = =3E with his dog=2E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3ETwo memoirs I=27ve read fairly recently and really liked are = Bob = =3E Dylan=27s vol=2E = =3E =3E =3E1 =3E =3E =3Eand Larry Woiwode=27s vol=2E 1=2E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3EIn school there was a plot afoot to get all the women to writ= e = =3E non-fiction =3E =3E =3Epersonal essay and autobiography=2C leaving fiction and poetr= y = =3E for the men=2E = =3E =3E =3EIt =3E =3E =3Eonly partly worked=2E There was another plot to get the wome= n = =3E not to think = =3E =3E =3Eof =3E =3E =3Ethemselves as poets but as nursemaids=2E That only partly = =3E worked=2E One of my =3E =3E =3Efriends=2C xta=2C a very talented poet=2C backburnered her ow= n work = =3E and put songs = =3E =3E =3Efirst=2E =3E =3E =3EThe songs were (very) good=2C but so were the poems=2E Fifte= en = =3E years later=2C = =3E =3E =3Eshe =3E =3E =3Ehas been self-printing some of the poems at her blog=2C which= = =3E mostly pertains = =3E =3E =3Eto =3E =3E =3E(good) autobiography=2E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3EI live in Minnesota but am not very active in the writing = =3E community here=2E = =3E =3E =3EI =3E =3E =3Eget out sometimes and have so far heard poetry the most=2E I= t = =3E does seem=2C =3E =3E =3Ehowever=2C that there must have been a plot afoot in Minnesot= a to = =3E get all the = =3E =3E =3Efaculty =3E =3E =3Ewomen to write autobiography=2E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3EJust curious about other people=27s ideas about writers =26 p= oets =26 = =3E memoir=2E=3E =3EPlease cite some good ones=2C too=2E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3EAnn Bogle =3E =3E = =3E =3E =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F =3E =3E Is your PC infected=3F Get a FREE online computer virus scan fro= m = =3E McAfee=AE = =3E =3E Security=2E http=3A//clinic=2Emcafee=2Ecom/clinic/ibuy/campaign=2E= asp=3F cid=3D3963 =3E =3E = =3E =3E = =3E = =3E = =3C=3C=3C=3C=3C=3C=3C=3C=3C=3C=3C=3C=3C=3C=3C=3C=3C=3C=3C=3C=3C=3C=3C=3C= =3C=3C=3C=3C=3C=3C=3C=3C=3C=3C=3C=3C=3E=3E=3E=3E=3E=3E=3E=3E=3E=3E=3E=3E= =3E=3E=3E=3E=3E=3E=3E=3E=3E=3E=3E=3E=3E=3E=3E=3E=3E=3E=3E=3E=3E=3E=3E =3E=3E=3E=3E =3E = =3E =22Breaking in bright Orthography =2E = =2E =2E=22 =3E --Emily Dickinson =3E = =3E Sailing the blogosphere at=3A http=3A//heatstrings=2Eblogspot=2Ecom/= =3E = =3E Aldon L=2E Nielsen =3E Kelly Professor of American Literature =3E The Pennsylvania State University =3E 116 Burrowes =3E University Park=2C PA 16802-6200 =3E = =3E (814) 865-0091 =3E ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 10:32:38 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joseph Thomas Subject: Re: Poets & memoir In-Reply-To: <200608091720.NAA01750@webmail19.cac.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit What did you think of Rae Armantrout's True? I thought it was quite good (though the edition I read was loaded with typos). Maybe poets should write more brief memoirs. That is, short memoirs, not memoirs about their briefs. And of course Lyn's My Life is a great big monkey wrench in the machinery that is our conventional notions of memoir. What other memoirs (or memoir like things) can you think of that question the conventional tropes of "memoir"--linear narrative, convivial or likable 1st person narrator, novelistic structure, etc.? Best, Joseph --- ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > Best title for a poet's memoir I can recall: > > Neruda: Confieso que he vivido > > > > A really interesting one to read is Alfred > Kreymborg's TROUBADOR -- worth it > just for the story of the day he and Willams took > Marianne Moore to a baseball > game -- > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 13:33:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kevin thurston Subject: Re: Poets & memoir In-Reply-To: <20060809173238.21225.qmail@web53109.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline raymond federman's work On 8/9/06, Joseph Thomas wrote: > > What did you think of Rae Armantrout's True? I thought > it was quite good (though the edition I read was > loaded with typos). Maybe poets should write more > brief memoirs. That is, short memoirs, not memoirs > about their briefs. > > And of course Lyn's My Life is a great big monkey > wrench in the machinery that is our conventional > notions of memoir. What other memoirs (or memoir like > things) can you think of that question the > conventional tropes of "memoir"--linear narrative, > convivial or likable 1st person narrator, novelistic > structure, etc.? > > Best, > Joseph > > > --- ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > > > Best title for a poet's memoir I can recall: > > > > Neruda: Confieso que he vivido > > > > > > > > A really interesting one to read is Alfred > > Kreymborg's TROUBADOR -- worth it > > just for the story of the day he and Willams took > > Marianne Moore to a baseball > > game -- > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > -- http://fuckinglies.blogspot.com http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/thepixelplus/nhdoublewide.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 10:37:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: Poets & memoir MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable AM, I've looked upon Gramsci's works: Prison Notebooks, as autobiographical. = While it is true he was more a political/social reform economist than a = poet, I find a kind of poetry even in his essays. And I don't view the = works within the notebooks as chronologically autobiographical; rather I = see them more as intellectually autobiographical as his thinking evolved = during his years in prison.=20 Alex =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: AMBogle2@AOL.COM=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 8:32 AM Subject: Poets & memoir Dear list folk: A more interesting question for me this week relates to poets writing = memoir.=20 When I met up with poet, Tony Sanders, again after a long break from = school,=20 we stayed on the phone for two or three days while he told the story = of=20 living in Alaska. I had never had this kind of experience before = except by=20 reading. It felt like reading a book to listen to him: an emotional = and scenic=20 poet's volume. I told him I thought he should write it, that it would = make a=20 wonderful book, and he said he didn't believe poets ought to write = memoirs. He=20 cited a bad example of a poet who'd written about having sex with his = dog. Two memoirs I've read fairly recently and really liked are Bob Dylan's = vol. 1=20 and Larry Woiwode's vol. 1. In school there was a plot afoot to get all the women to write = non-fiction=20 personal essay and autobiography, leaving fiction and poetry for the = men. It=20 only partly worked. There was another plot to get the women not to = think of=20 themselves as poets but as nursemaids. That only partly worked. One = of my=20 friends, xta, a very talented poet, backburnered her own work and put = songs first. =20 The songs were (very) good, but so were the poems. Fifteen years = later, she=20 has been self-printing some of the poems at her blog, which mostly = pertains to=20 (good) autobiography. I live in Minnesota but am not very active in the writing community = here. I=20 get out sometimes and have so far heard poetry the most. It does = seem,=20 however, that there must have been a plot afoot in Minnesota to get = all the faculty=20 women to write autobiography. Just curious about other people's ideas about writers & poets & = memoir. =20 Please cite some good ones, too. Ann Bogle ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 12:40:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: Poets & memoir In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed for meta-memoir try my book KNOWLEDGE SWIRLING MAN TELLS SLOW STORIES >>> >>> >>>> From: AMBogle2@AOL.COM >>>> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >> > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>>> Subject: Poets & memoir >>>> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 11:32:12 EDT >>>> >>>> Dear list folk: >>>> >>>> A more interesting question for me this week relates to poets >> writing >>>> memoir. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 11:04:17 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: Poets & memoir In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed I hate memoirs. I hate them because they are both popular AND boring and I hate them on general principle. I hate the idea that people think they're interesting enough to be their own subjects. I hate the arrogance of the genre. I'd much rather read fictional stories than self-aggrandizing ones. I hate this faux-authenticity. The only people who I feel have any business writing about themselves are those who have already been written about by other people. To that end John Lydon's ghost written "Rotten: No Irish, No Blacks, No Dogs" is far more interesting to me than anything some middle class white dude has to say about quitting drinking. James Frey, of course, being the paradigm case of how a bad memoir is just as bad as a bad novel, the only difference being that novels at least have the option of making up interesting things to describe, where as memoirists are limited to their own boring lives. On Wed, 9 Aug 2006 AMBogle2@AOL.COM wrote: > Dear list folk: > > A more interesting question for me this week relates to poets writing memoir. > When I met up with poet, Tony Sanders, again after a long break from school, > we stayed on the phone for two or three days while he told the story of > living in Alaska. I had never had this kind of experience before except by > reading. It felt like reading a book to listen to him: an emotional and scenic > poet's volume. I told him I thought he should write it, that it would make a > wonderful book, and he said he didn't believe poets ought to write memoirs. He > cited a bad example of a poet who'd written about having sex with his dog. > > Two memoirs I've read fairly recently and really liked are Bob Dylan's vol. 1 > and Larry Woiwode's vol. 1. > > In school there was a plot afoot to get all the women to write non-fiction > personal essay and autobiography, leaving fiction and poetry for the men. It > only partly worked. There was another plot to get the women not to think of > themselves as poets but as nursemaids. That only partly worked. One of my > friends, xta, a very talented poet, backburnered her own work and put songs first. > The songs were (very) good, but so were the poems. Fifteen years later, she > has been self-printing some of the poems at her blog, which mostly pertains to > (good) autobiography. > > I live in Minnesota but am not very active in the writing community here. I > get out sometimes and have so far heard poetry the most. It does seem, > however, that there must have been a plot afoot in Minnesota to get all the faculty > women to write autobiography. > > Just curious about other people's ideas about writers & poets & memoir. > Please cite some good ones, too. > > Ann Bogle > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 11:08:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: Poets & memoir In-Reply-To: <20060809173238.21225.qmail@web53109.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed God yeah "My Life" is great, "My Life" is the Anti-Memoir. Another excellent Anti-Memoir is Herbert O. Yardley's "The Education of a Poker Player" which is a memoir masquerading as a guide to playing cards for money. On Wed, 9 Aug 2006, Joseph Thomas wrote: > What did you think of Rae Armantrout's True? I thought > it was quite good (though the edition I read was > loaded with typos). Maybe poets should write more > brief memoirs. That is, short memoirs, not memoirs > about their briefs. > > And of course Lyn's My Life is a great big monkey > wrench in the machinery that is our conventional > notions of memoir. What other memoirs (or memoir like > things) can you think of that question the > conventional tropes of "memoir"--linear narrative, > convivial or likable 1st person narrator, novelistic > structure, etc.? > > Best, > Joseph > > > --- ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > >> Best title for a poet's memoir I can recall: >> >> Neruda: Confieso que he vivido >> >> >> >> A really interesting one to read is Alfred >> Kreymborg's TROUBADOR -- worth it >> just for the story of the day he and Willams took >> Marianne Moore to a baseball >> game -- >> > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 13:17:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: sue walker Subject: Re: Poets & memoir In-Reply-To: <200608091725.NAA02251@webmail19.cac.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed Two of my favorite memoirs are: Christopher Dickey's Summer of Deliverance -- important, I think, =20 because of it's focus on a son's relationship with his father. In the field of literature and medicine, a number of poignant memoirs =20= (sometimes called autopathographies) are: Audre Lorde's The Cancer =20 Journals; Lucy Grealy's Autobiography of a Face; Nancy Mairs, Waist-=20 High In The World. I have combined literary biography and personal memoir in It's Good =20 Weather For Fudge: Conversing With Carson McCullers -- a book-length =20 poem that conjoins McCullers' biography and my own experiences of =20 growing up in the South -- including drinking Pimm's Cups in the New =20 Orleans French Quarter, eating 'Po-Boys," and matters of war. Sue Walker Poet Laureate of Alabama Chair / Professor, University of South Alabama swalker@jaguar1.usouth al.edu suebwalker.com On Aug 9, 2006, at 12:25 PM, ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > a memoir is an autobiography written to get on the now already gone =20= > memoir band > wagon in publishing and creative writing programs -- > > On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 09:58:55 +0000, Thomas savage wrote: > >> I don't see why poets shouldn't write their memoirs or =20 >> autobiographies. I > would like to know if there is a difference between memoir and =20 > autobiography > without taking a course to find out. I'm too old for school. I've =20= > been trying > to write an autobiography for twenty years but never get beyond the =20= > first few > pages. >> >> AMBogle2@AOL.COM wrote: Dear list folk: >> >> A more interesting question for me this week relates to poets =20 >> writing memoir. >> When I met up with poet, Tony Sanders, again after a long break =20 >> from school, >> we stayed on the phone for two or three days while he told the =20 >> story of >> living in Alaska. I had never had this kind of experience before =20 >> except by >> reading. It felt like reading a book to listen to him: an =20 >> emotional and scenic > >> poet's volume. I told him I thought he should write it, that it =20 >> would make a >> wonderful book, and he said he didn't believe poets ought to write =20= >> memoirs. He > >> cited a bad example of a poet who'd written about having sex with =20 >> his dog. >> >> Two memoirs I've read fairly recently and really liked are Bob =20 >> Dylan's vol. 1 >> and Larry Woiwode's vol. 1. >> >> In school there was a plot afoot to get all the women to write non-=20= >> fiction >> personal essay and autobiography, leaving fiction and poetry for =20 >> the men. It >> only partly worked. There was another plot to get the women not to =20= >> think of >> themselves as poets but as nursemaids. That only partly worked. =20 >> One of my >> friends, xta, a very talented poet, backburnered her own work and =20 >> put songs > first. >> The songs were (very) good, but so were the poems. Fifteen years =20 >> later, she >> has been self-printing some of the poems at her blog, which mostly =20= >> pertains to > >> (good) autobiography. >> >> I live in Minnesota but am not very active in the writing =20 >> community here. I >> get out sometimes and have so far heard poetry the most. It does =20 >> seem, >> however, that there must have been a plot afoot in Minnesota to =20 >> get all the > faculty >> women to write autobiography. >> >> Just curious about other people's ideas about writers & poets & =20 >> memoir. >> Please cite some good ones, too. >> >> Ann Bogle >> >> >> =09 >> --------------------------------- >> Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. =20 >> Great rates > starting at 1=A2/min. >> >> > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>=20= > >>>>> > > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > --Emily Dickinson > > Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > > Aldon L. Nielsen > Kelly Professor of American Literature > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 13:43:55 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Re: Poets & memoir Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 What was Susan Sontag's memoir - the cancer meoir? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "sue walker" > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Poets & memoir > Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 13:17:24 -0500 >=20 >=20 > Two of my favorite memoirs are: >=20 > Christopher Dickey's Summer of Deliverance -- important, I think, becaus= e of it's focus on a=20 > son's relationship with his father. >=20 > In the field of literature and medicine, a number of poignant memoirs (s= ometimes called=20 > autopathographies) are: Audre Lorde's The Cancer Journals; Lucy Grealy'= s Autobiography of a=20 > Face; Nancy Mairs, Waist- High In The World. >=20 > I have combined literary biography and personal memoir in It's Good Weat= her For Fudge:=20 > Conversing With Carson McCullers -- a book-length poem that conjoins McC= ullers' biography and=20 > my own experiences of growing up in the South -- including drinking Pimm= 's Cups in the New=20=20 > Orleans French Quarter, eating 'Po-Boys," and matters of war. >=20 > Sue Walker > Poet Laureate of Alabama > Chair / Professor, University of South Alabama > swalker@jaguar1.usouth al.edu > suebwalker.com >=20 >=20 > On Aug 9, 2006, at 12:25 PM, ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: >=20 > > a memoir is an autobiography written to get on the now already gone me= moir band > > wagon in publishing and creative writing programs -- > > > > On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 09:58:55 +0000, Thomas savage wrote: > > > >> I don't see why poets shouldn't write their memoirs or autobiographie= s. I > > would like to know if there is a difference between memoir and autobio= graphy > > without taking a course to find out. I'm too old for school. I've be= en trying > > to write an autobiography for twenty years but never get beyond the fi= rst few > > pages. > >> > >> AMBogle2@AOL.COM wrote: Dear list folk: > >> > >> A more interesting question for me this week relates to poets writing= memoir. > >> When I met up with poet, Tony Sanders, again after a long break from = school, > >> we stayed on the phone for two or three days while he told the story = of > >> living in Alaska. I had never had this kind of experience before exce= pt by > >> reading. It felt like reading a book to listen to him: an emotional a= nd scenic > > > >> poet's volume. I told him I thought he should write it, that it would= make a > >> wonderful book, and he said he didn't believe poets ought to write me= moirs. He > > > >> cited a bad example of a poet who'd written about having sex with his= dog. > >> > >> Two memoirs I've read fairly recently and really liked are Bob Dylan'= s vol. 1 > >> and Larry Woiwode's vol. 1. > >> > >> In school there was a plot afoot to get all the women to write non- fi= ction > >> personal essay and autobiography, leaving fiction and poetry for the = men. It > >> only partly worked. There was another plot to get the women not to th= ink of > >> themselves as poets but as nursemaids. That only partly worked. One o= f my > >> friends, xta, a very talented poet, backburnered her own work and put= songs > > first. > >> The songs were (very) good, but so were the poems. Fifteen years late= r, she > >> has been self-printing some of the poems at her blog, which mostly pe= rtains to > > > >> (good) autobiography. > >> > >> I live in Minnesota but am not very active in the writing community h= ere. I > >> get out sometimes and have so far heard poetry the most. It does seem, > >> however, that there must have been a plot afoot in Minnesota to get a= ll the > > faculty > >> women to write autobiography. > >> > >> Just curious about other people's ideas about writers & poets & memoi= r. > >> Please cite some good ones, too. > >> > >> Ann Bogle > >> > >> > >>=20=20=09=09 > >> --------------------------------- > >> Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great= rates > > starting at 1=A2/min. > >> > >> > > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> = >>>>> > > > > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > > --Emily Dickinson > > > > Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > > > > Aldon L. Nielsen > > Kelly Professor of American Literature > > The Pennsylvania State University > > 116 Burrowes > > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > > > (814) 865-0091 > Christophe Casamassima Professor Emiritus, Modern Languages & Philology University of Jamaica Avenue, Queens, N.Y. --=20 ___________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.graffiti.net/ Powered By Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 13:55:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: sue walker Subject: Re: Poets & memoir In-Reply-To: <20060809184356.3853514872@ws5-9.us4.outblaze.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed I think Susan Sontag's book was Illness as Metaphor -- and I forgot =20 to mention JOan Didion's recent book, The Year of Magical Thinking =20 and Donald Hall, our current Poet Laureate's The Best Day The Worst Day/ Sue Walker On Aug 9, 2006, at 1:43 PM, furniture_ press wrote: > What was Susan Sontag's memoir - the cancer meoir? > > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "sue walker" >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: Re: Poets & memoir >> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 13:17:24 -0500 >> >> >> Two of my favorite memoirs are: >> >> Christopher Dickey's Summer of Deliverance -- important, I think, =20= >> because of it's focus on a >> son's relationship with his father. >> >> In the field of literature and medicine, a number of poignant =20 >> memoirs (sometimes called >> autopathographies) are: Audre Lorde's The Cancer Journals; Lucy =20 >> Grealy's Autobiography of a >> Face; Nancy Mairs, Waist- High In The World. >> >> I have combined literary biography and personal memoir in It's =20 >> Good Weather For Fudge: >> Conversing With Carson McCullers -- a book-length poem that =20 >> conjoins McCullers' biography and >> my own experiences of growing up in the South -- including =20 >> drinking Pimm's Cups in the New >> Orleans French Quarter, eating 'Po-Boys," and matters of war. >> >> Sue Walker >> Poet Laureate of Alabama >> Chair / Professor, University of South Alabama >> swalker@jaguar1.usouth al.edu >> suebwalker.com >> >> >> On Aug 9, 2006, at 12:25 PM, ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: >> >>> a memoir is an autobiography written to get on the now already =20 >>> gone memoir band >>> wagon in publishing and creative writing programs -- >>> >>> On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 09:58:55 +0000, Thomas savage wrote: >>> >>>> I don't see why poets shouldn't write their memoirs or =20 >>>> autobiographies. I >>> would like to know if there is a difference between memoir and =20 >>> autobiography >>> without taking a course to find out. I'm too old for school. =20 >>> I've been trying >>> to write an autobiography for twenty years but never get beyond =20 >>> the first few >>> pages. >>>> >>>> AMBogle2@AOL.COM wrote: Dear list folk: >>>> >>>> A more interesting question for me this week relates to poets =20 >>>> writing memoir. >>>> When I met up with poet, Tony Sanders, again after a long break =20= >>>> from school, >>>> we stayed on the phone for two or three days while he told the =20 >>>> story of >>>> living in Alaska. I had never had this kind of experience =20 >>>> before except by >>>> reading. It felt like reading a book to listen to him: an =20 >>>> emotional and scenic >>> >>>> poet's volume. I told him I thought he should write it, that it =20= >>>> would make a >>>> wonderful book, and he said he didn't believe poets ought to =20 >>>> write memoirs. He >>> >>>> cited a bad example of a poet who'd written about having sex =20 >>>> with his dog. >>>> >>>> Two memoirs I've read fairly recently and really liked are Bob =20 >>>> Dylan's vol. 1 >>>> and Larry Woiwode's vol. 1. >>>> >>>> In school there was a plot afoot to get all the women to write =20 >>>> non- fiction >>>> personal essay and autobiography, leaving fiction and poetry =20 >>>> for the men. It >>>> only partly worked. There was another plot to get the women not =20 >>>> to think of >>>> themselves as poets but as nursemaids. That only partly worked. =20= >>>> One of my >>>> friends, xta, a very talented poet, backburnered her own work =20 >>>> and put songs >>> first. >>>> The songs were (very) good, but so were the poems. Fifteen =20 >>>> years later, she >>>> has been self-printing some of the poems at her blog, which =20 >>>> mostly pertains to >>> >>>> (good) autobiography. >>>> >>>> I live in Minnesota but am not very active in the writing =20 >>>> community here. I >>>> get out sometimes and have so far heard poetry the most. It =20 >>>> does seem, >>>> however, that there must have been a plot afoot in Minnesota to =20= >>>> get all the >>> faculty >>>> women to write autobiography. >>>> >>>> Just curious about other people's ideas about writers & poets & =20= >>>> memoir. >>>> Please cite some good ones, too. >>>> >>>> Ann Bogle >>>> >>>> >>>> =09 >>>> --------------------------------- >>>> Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. =20= >>>> Great rates >>> starting at 1=A2/min. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>=20= >>> >> >>>>> >>> >>> "Breaking in bright =20 >>> Orthography . . ." >>> --Emily Dickinson >>> >>> Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ >>> >>> Aldon L. Nielsen >>> Kelly Professor of American Literature >>> The Pennsylvania State University >>> 116 Burrowes >>> University Park, PA 16802-6200 >>> >>> (814) 865-0091 > >> > > > > Christophe Casamassima > Professor Emiritus, Modern Languages & Philology > University of Jamaica Avenue, Queens, N.Y. > > > --=20 > ___________________________________________ > Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net > Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.graffiti.net/ > > > Powered By Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 12:09:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Poets & memoir In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 9-Aug-06, at 10:30 AM, Christopher Leland Winks wrote: > Which, in his own memoir "Paginas vueltas," Nicolas Guillen (no friend > to Neruda, despite their shared communist affiliations) parodied > as "Confieso que he bebido." Maybe he didnt like Stalinist assassins. > George H. Bowering Fears a symmetrical oyster. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 15:08:05 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christopher Leland Winks Subject: Re: Poets & memoir In-Reply-To: <91CD851C-27DA-11DB-A6E7-000A95C34F08@sfu.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, in fact, Guillen wrote a memorable poem "Una cancion a Stalin," which begins: "Stalin, Capitan / a quien Chango protege y a quien resguarde Ochun. / A tu lado, cantando, los hombres libres van." It goes on for a page and a half more, but you get the idea. ----- Original Message ----- From: George Bowering Date: Wednesday, August 9, 2006 3:09 pm Subject: Re: Poets & memoir > On 9-Aug-06, at 10:30 AM, Christopher Leland Winks wrote: > > > Which, in his own memoir "Paginas vueltas," Nicolas Guillen (no > friend> to Neruda, despite their shared communist affiliations) > parodied> as "Confieso que he bebido." > > Maybe he didnt like Stalinist assassins. > > > > > > George H. Bowering > Fears a symmetrical oyster. > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 12:18:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Poets & memoir In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Yeah, it sounds like Neruda's anthem to Stalin,m only more musical. gb On 9-Aug-06, at 12:08 PM, Christopher Leland Winks wrote: > Well, in fact, Guillen wrote a memorable poem "Una cancion a Stalin," > which begins: "Stalin, Capitan / a quien Chango protege y a quien > resguarde Ochun. / A tu lado, cantando, los hombres libres van." It > goes on for a page and a half more, but you get the idea. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: George Bowering > Date: Wednesday, August 9, 2006 3:09 pm > Subject: Re: Poets & memoir > >> On 9-Aug-06, at 10:30 AM, Christopher Leland Winks wrote: >> >>> Which, in his own memoir "Paginas vueltas," Nicolas Guillen (no >> friend> to Neruda, despite their shared communist affiliations) >> parodied> as "Confieso que he bebido." >> >> Maybe he didnt like Stalinist assassins. >> >> >> >> >>> George H. Bowering >> Fears a symmetrical oyster. >> > > GHB Truly fond of liver and onions. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 12:42:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Baraban Subject: Re: Poets & memoir In-Reply-To: <43566A34-5A99-48D5-BC80-E6C4A2B63D25@bellsouth.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit But _Illness as Metaphor_ is not a memoir, but rather a philosophical work about various ways various diseases have been regarded, sparked though the thinking was by S.S.'s own battle with cancer... I certainly understand the wish for memoirs by Sontag, and unguarded reminiscences by her friends. It would for instance be very amusing and illuminating to know in detail about the period during which she was first getting enthusiastic about aspects of pop culture, while still married to one of the hardest-line old-style elitist culture professor types imaginable ("I *couldn't* tell him I went out to see Rock Around The Clock after our argument", as she later reminiscened in an interview). I had hoped she would at least authorize her friends to talk their heads off after she *died*, so there could be a wonderful biography, but I don't know that she did. Apparently people like that celebrity photographer she was entwined with want lots of stuff to remain buried, and she honored that. - sue walker wrote: > I think Susan Sontag's book was Illness as Metaphor > -- and I forgot > to mention JOan Didion's recent book, The Year of > Magical Thinking > and Donald Hall, our current Poet Laureate's The > Best Day The Worst Day/ > > Sue Walker > On Aug 9, 2006, at 1:43 PM, furniture_ press wrote: > > > What was Susan Sontag's memoir - the cancer meoir? > > > > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "sue walker" > >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >> Subject: Re: Poets & memoir > >> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 13:17:24 -0500 > >> > >> > >> Two of my favorite memoirs are: > >> > >> Christopher Dickey's Summer of Deliverance -- > important, I think, > >> because of it's focus on a > >> son's relationship with his father. > >> > >> In the field of literature and medicine, a number > of poignant > >> memoirs (sometimes called > >> autopathographies) are: Audre Lorde's The Cancer > Journals; Lucy > >> Grealy's Autobiography of a > >> Face; Nancy Mairs, Waist- High In The World. > >> > >> I have combined literary biography and personal > memoir in It's > >> Good Weather For Fudge: > >> Conversing With Carson McCullers -- a book-length > poem that > >> conjoins McCullers' biography and > >> my own experiences of growing up in the South -- > including > >> drinking Pimm's Cups in the New > >> Orleans French Quarter, eating 'Po-Boys," and > matters of war. > >> > >> Sue Walker > >> Poet Laureate of Alabama > >> Chair / Professor, University of South Alabama > >> swalker@jaguar1.usouth al.edu > >> suebwalker.com > >> > >> > >> On Aug 9, 2006, at 12:25 PM, ALDON L NIELSEN > wrote: > >> > >>> a memoir is an autobiography written to get on > the now already > >>> gone memoir band > >>> wagon in publishing and creative writing > programs -- > >>> > >>> On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 09:58:55 +0000, Thomas > savage wrote: > >>> > >>>> I don't see why poets shouldn't write their > memoirs or > >>>> autobiographies. I > >>> would like to know if there is a difference > between memoir and > >>> autobiography > >>> without taking a course to find out. I'm too > old for school. > >>> I've been trying > >>> to write an autobiography for twenty years but > never get beyond > >>> the first few > >>> pages. > >>>> > >>>> AMBogle2@AOL.COM wrote: Dear list folk: > >>>> > >>>> A more interesting question for me this week > relates to poets > >>>> writing memoir. > >>>> When I met up with poet, Tony Sanders, again > after a long break > >>>> from school, > >>>> we stayed on the phone for two or three days > while he told the > >>>> story of > >>>> living in Alaska. I had never had this kind of > experience > >>>> before except by > >>>> reading. It felt like reading a book to listen > to him: an > >>>> emotional and scenic > >>> > >>>> poet's volume. I told him I thought he should > write it, that it > >>>> would make a > >>>> wonderful book, and he said he didn't believe > poets ought to > >>>> write memoirs. He > >>> > >>>> cited a bad example of a poet who'd written > about having sex > >>>> with his dog. > >>>> > >>>> Two memoirs I've read fairly recently and > really liked are Bob > >>>> Dylan's vol. 1 > >>>> and Larry Woiwode's vol. 1. > >>>> > >>>> In school there was a plot afoot to get all the > women to write > >>>> non- fiction > >>>> personal essay and autobiography, leaving > fiction and poetry > >>>> for the men. It > >>>> only partly worked. There was another plot to > get the women not > >>>> to think of > >>>> themselves as poets but as nursemaids. That > only partly worked. > >>>> One of my > >>>> friends, xta, a very talented poet, > backburnered her own work > >>>> and put songs > >>> first. > >>>> The songs were (very) good, but so were the > poems. Fifteen > >>>> years later, she > >>>> has been self-printing some of the poems at her > blog, which > >>>> mostly pertains to > >>> > >>>> (good) autobiography. > >>>> > >>>> I live in Minnesota but am not very active in > the writing > >>>> community here. I > >>>> get out sometimes and have so far heard poetry > the most. It > >>>> does seem, > >>>> however, that there must have been a plot afoot > in Minnesota to > >>>> get all the > >>> faculty > >>>> women to write autobiography. > >>>> > >>>> Just curious about other people's ideas about > writers & poets & > >>>> memoir. > >>>> Please cite some good ones, too. > >>>> > >>>> Ann Bogle > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> --------------------------------- > >>>> Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make > PC-to-Phone calls. > >>>> Great rates > >>> starting at 1?min. > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>> >> >>>>> > >>> > >>> "Breaking in > bright > >>> Orthography . . ." > >>> --Emily > Dickinson > >>> > >>> Sailing the blogosphere at: > http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > >>> > >>> Aldon L. Nielsen > >>> Kelly Professor of American Literature > >>> The Pennsylvania State University > >>> 116 Burrowes > >>> University Park, PA 16802-6200 > >>> > >>> (814) 865-0091 > > > >> > > > > > > > > Christophe Casamassima > > Professor Emiritus, Modern Languages & Philology > > University of Jamaica Avenue, Queens, N.Y. > > > > > > -- > > ___________________________________________ > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 21:41:14 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Subject: Re: Poets & memoir MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Earliest poet/autobiographer/memorialist in the Western European written tradition? Archilochus (7thC BCE) Basho as memoir rather than autobiography in +Narrow Road to the Deep North+. Petrarch (Ascent of Mount Ventoux, Secretum) tends to restart the tradition. [Abelard -- History of My Own Calamities -- was earlier, but no poet. As far as I know.] Wordsworth (obviously) in the Prelude. I mean, so many are doing it in their poems (Lowell, Berryman) that there isn't that much imaginative space for a prose account. Poets do it in letters. Robin Hamilton ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 07:32:36 +1000 Reply-To: k.zervos@griffith.edu.au Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "kom9os@bigpond.net.au" Subject: Re: New spoken word EP: "Virtual Pinball/Madame Psychosis" Comments: cc: Adam Fieled Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable what's an EP? ---- Adam Fieled wrote:=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D I'm putting out a spoken word EP, "Virtual Pinball/Madame Psychosis", on th= e Webster Street Gang label, run by Radio Eris mastermind Matt Stevenson. = Matt was the sound-guy on July 29th at the Highwire, if that helps you reme= mber him. Here's the track list: =20 isla perdida this is a song (about how I'm a monkey) Virtual Pinball debbie jaffe 14 Bricks lizzie mclean debra harnigan eye eye eye lucy stingle Hell In Dick Cheney's Brain =20 These poems have variously appeared in Mipoesias, MipoRadio, Nth Position= , and As/Is. If you're interested in obtaining a copy, shoot me an email (a= fieled@yahoo.com), or buzz me if you have my number, & we'll "git-r-done".= =20 =09=09 --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates= starting at 1=C2=A2/min. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 15:27:25 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Harrison Horton Subject: Re: Poets & memoir In-Reply-To: <01df01c6bbf4$28a5b2c0$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed there's also Li-Young Lee's *the winged seed* (Ruminator, 1995). David Harrison Horton unionherald.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 18:36:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Watman,Mark" Subject: Poetry anthologies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Does anyone have any resources or info regarding publishers open to = submissions of poetry anthologies?=20 Mark Watman ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 16:38:42 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Diane DiPrima Subject: Re: Poets & memoir In-Reply-To: <20060809165855.41536.qmail@web31106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Hi Tom I called it a "Memoir" when I added lots of fictional sex at the behest of my publisher (Maurice Girodias). I called it "Recollections" when I wrote part of my autobiography. We can "call" any of it anything we like, I suppose. Diane di Prima=20 > From: Thomas savage > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 09:58:55 -0700 > To: > Subject: Re: Poets & memoir >=20 > I don't see why poets shouldn't write their memoirs or autobiographies. = I > would like to know if there is a difference between memoir and autobiogra= phy > without taking a course to find out. I'm too old for school. I've been > trying to write an autobiography for twenty years but never get beyond th= e > first few pages. >=20 > AMBogle2@AOL.COM wrote: Dear list folk: >=20 > A more interesting question for me this week relates to poets writing mem= oir. > When I met up with poet, Tony Sanders, again after a long break from scho= ol, > we stayed on the phone for two or three days while he told the story of > living in Alaska. I had never had this kind of experience before except b= y > reading. It felt like reading a book to listen to him: an emotional and s= cenic > poet's volume. I told him I thought he should write it, that it would mak= e a > wonderful book, and he said he didn't believe poets ought to write memoir= s. He > cited a bad example of a poet who'd written about having sex with his dog= . >=20 > Two memoirs I've read fairly recently and really liked are Bob Dylan's vo= l. 1 > and Larry Woiwode's vol. 1. >=20 > In school there was a plot afoot to get all the women to write non-fictio= n > personal essay and autobiography, leaving fiction and poetry for the men.= It > only partly worked. There was another plot to get the women not to think = of > themselves as poets but as nursemaids. That only partly worked. One of my > friends, xta, a very talented poet, backburnered her own work and put son= gs > first.=20 > The songs were (very) good, but so were the poems. Fifteen years later, s= he > has been self-printing some of the poems at her blog, which mostly pertai= ns to > (good) autobiography. >=20 > I live in Minnesota but am not very active in the writing community here.= I > get out sometimes and have so far heard poetry the most. It does seem, > however, that there must have been a plot afoot in Minnesota to get all t= he > faculty=20 > women to write autobiography. >=20 > Just curious about other people's ideas about writers & poets & memoir. > Please cite some good ones, too. >=20 > Ann Bogle >=20 >=20 >=20 > --------------------------------- > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rat= es > starting at 1=A2/min. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 20:26:05 -0400 Reply-To: junction@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Poetry anthologies Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think it would be safe to say that no publishers are interested in poetry anthologies as a genre, but lots are interested in particular areas. More details would help. Mark -----Original Message----- >From: "Watman,Mark" >Sent: Aug 9, 2006 6:36 PM >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Poetry anthologies > >Does anyone have any resources or info regarding publishers open to submissions of poetry anthologies? > >Mark Watman ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 19:34:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Lunday Subject: Re: Poets & memoir In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline If a memoir is bad, it's bad for the same reason a book of poetry or fiction is bad: it's bankrupt of imagination, and lacking in true courage (as opposed to mere exhibitionism: *Rousseau*, in his "Confessions," somehow manages both; and fits nicely into the fine French tradition of body-honesty, too: see *Michel Leiris* and de Beauvoir for more recent examples). So, a memoir has to be re-imagined, and not simply remembered or reported. I've been plowing through dozens of memoirs lately (to develop a teaching idea, mainly -- looking for excerpts that offer various "arguments" of the life, different rhetorical re-inventions); and yes, most of them are bad -- boring, unimagined, bragging of what people used to be ashamed of (not that either attitude is honorable, necessarily). But most of the poetry books, most of the novels I read (when I just pull the books randomly off the shelf), are a disappointment. As to the good memoirs (if sometimes unevenly so --well, good "prose life-writing," anyway): some of these by poets, but not all (omitting, when I can remember the earlier posts, the already-mentioned in this thread): Philip Brady, To Prove My Blood Sartre, The Words Alphonse Daudet, In the Land of of Pain Edward Dahlberg, various Gary Soto, various pieces John Edgar Wideman, Brothers and Keepers C.S. Lewis, Surprised by Joy Nabokov, Speak, Memory Michael Ondaatje, Running in the Family Paul West, Words for a Deaf Daughter Melissa Green, Color is the Suffering of Light Paul Auster, The Invention of Solitude ...a second vote for Lucy Grealy Goethe, Dichtung und Warheit Lawrence, Seven Pillars of Wisdom Zora Neale Hurston, Dust Tracks on the Road Edwin Muir's Autobiography Nathalie Sarraute, Childhood Cellini, Autobiography Ruskin, Praeterita Hemingway, A Moveable Feast Aeneas Gunn, We of the Never Never Wole Soyinka, Ake WC Williams, Autobiography... Yeats's Autobiography Stanislav Lem, Highcastle Momaday, The Names Chagall, My Life Welty, One Writer's Beginnings Henry Adams Edward Said, Out of Place ...well, that's more than enough -- sorry, I''m a compuslive lister! On 8/9/06, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > > I hate memoirs. I hate them because they are both popular AND boring and I > hate them on general principle. I hate the idea that people think they're > interesting enough to be their own subjects. I hate the arrogance of the > genre. I'd much rather read fictional stories than self-aggrandizing ones. I > hate this faux-authenticity. The only people who I feel have any business > writing about themselves are those who have already been written about by > other people. To that end John Lydon's ghost written "Rotten: No Irish, No > Blacks, No Dogs" is far more interesting to me than anything some middle > class white dude has to say about quitting drinking. James Frey, of course, > being the paradigm case of how a bad memoir is just as bad as a bad novel, > the only difference being that novels at least have the option of making up > interesting things to describe, where as memoirists are limited to their own > boring lives. > > > On Wed, 9 Aug 2006 AMBogle2@AOL.COM wrote: > > > Dear list folk: > > > > A more interesting question for me this week relates to poets writing > memoir. > > When I met up with poet, Tony Sanders, again after a long break from > school, > > we stayed on the phone for two or three days while he told the story of > > living in Alaska. I had never had this kind of experience before except > by > > reading. It felt like reading a book to listen to him: an emotional and > scenic > > poet's volume. I told him I thought he should write it, that it would > make a > > wonderful book, and he said he didn't believe poets ought to write > memoirs. He > > cited a bad example of a poet who'd written about having sex with his > dog. > > > > Two memoirs I've read fairly recently and really liked are Bob Dylan's > vol. 1 > > and Larry Woiwode's vol. 1. > > > > In school there was a plot afoot to get all the women to write > non-fiction > > personal essay and autobiography, leaving fiction and poetry for the > men. It > > only partly worked. There was another plot to get the women not to > think of > > themselves as poets but as nursemaids. That only partly worked. One of > my > > friends, xta, a very talented poet, backburnered her own work and put > songs first. > > The songs were (very) good, but so were the poems. Fifteen years later, > she > > has been self-printing some of the poems at her blog, which mostly > pertains to > > (good) autobiography. > > > > I live in Minnesota but am not very active in the writing community > here. I > > get out sometimes and have so far heard poetry the most. It does seem, > > however, that there must have been a plot afoot in Minnesota to get all > the faculty > > women to write autobiography. > > > > Just curious about other people's ideas about writers & poets & memoir. > > Please cite some good ones, too. > > > > Ann Bogle > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 19:40:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Lunday Subject: Re: Poets & memoir In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Forgot a key one: Eugene Jolas, Man From Babel. On 8/9/06, AMBogle2@aol.com wrote: > > Dear list folk: > > A more interesting question for me this week relates to poets writing > memoir. > When I met up with poet, Tony Sanders, again after a long break from > school, > we stayed on the phone for two or three days while he told the story of > living in Alaska. I had never had this kind of experience before except > by > reading. It felt like reading a book to listen to him: an emotional and > scenic > poet's volume. I told him I thought he should write it, that it would > make a > wonderful book, and he said he didn't believe poets ought to write > memoirs. He > cited a bad example of a poet who'd written about having sex with his dog. > > Two memoirs I've read fairly recently and really liked are Bob Dylan's > vol. 1 > and Larry Woiwode's vol. 1. > > In school there was a plot afoot to get all the women to write non-fiction > personal essay and autobiography, leaving fiction and poetry for the > men. It > only partly worked. There was another plot to get the women not to think > of > themselves as poets but as nursemaids. That only partly worked. One of > my > friends, xta, a very talented poet, backburnered her own work and put > songs first. > The songs were (very) good, but so were the poems. Fifteen years later, > she > has been self-printing some of the poems at her blog, which mostly > pertains to > (good) autobiography. > > I live in Minnesota but am not very active in the writing community > here. I > get out sometimes and have so far heard poetry the most. It does seem, > however, that there must have been a plot afoot in Minnesota to get all > the faculty > women to write autobiography. > > Just curious about other people's ideas about writers & poets & memoir. > Please cite some good ones, too. > > Ann Bogle > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 21:49:59 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mike Luster Subject: Re: Remove me from list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit instructions are at the bottom of every email. mike ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 19:17:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rodney K Subject: Hadbawnik, Bollywood Poetry 8/14 & 8/17 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed I'll be doing a couple of events next week in the Bay Area and would be very happy to see you at either one. + MONDAY, AUGUST 14 @ 7:30 p.m. DAVID HADBAWNIK & RODNEY KOENEKE BIRD & BECKETT BOOKS, SAN FRANCISCO (Diamond @ Chenery, 2 blocks from Glen Park BART) David's visiting after a year in San Marcos and will be reading from his new book SF Spleen, just out from effing press. I'll be doing the first Bay Area reading for my new book, Musee Mechanique. Bird & Beckett's worth coming to just for a look around the store if you haven't been before. + THURSDAY, AUGUST 17 @ 7:30 DESIRE UNDER THE BANYAN PACIFIC FILM ARCHIVE, BERKELEY I'll be reprising my 8-minute neo-benshi performance to a scene from Guru Dutt's Pyaasa (1957) as part of a program that includes "an experimental, cross-dressed reappropriation of the fabulous world of Helen, Bollywood's dancing "it-girl" queen of the sixties and seventies." Best, Rodney ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 20:41:04 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: CA: MMM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To those who might be interested, the Middle Monday of the Month series = is a regular affair for those working on or interested in literary = manuscripts. There are two featured writers at each meeting, reading new and/or problematic work, followed by a lively discussion. Readers sign up the month (or two) before. This month Kate Chandler and Danielle Adair Will be reading new writing at the Coffee Fix in Studio City, Monday, = August 14. Reading should begin at 7:00, with discussion a little before and after. This is the fourth reading of the Middle Monday of the Month series, sponsored by the people who bring you the Smell (last Sunday of the = month reading series). Coffee Fix is located at 12508 Moorpark St, Studio City, CA 91604 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 23:52:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vireo Nefer Subject: Re: BookMooch In-Reply-To: <518D5FAF-D016-471A-ADDD-6569FCFD93FD@mwt.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline all the gods, and myself, thank you. Vireo On 8/7/06, mIEKAL aND wrote: > > BookMooch is a community for exchanging used books. > -- AIM: vireonefer LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=vireoibis VireoNyx Publications: http://www.vireonyxpub.org INK: http://www.inkemetic.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 23:36:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Titles of 147 New Malok Poems Comments: To: Theory and Writing Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed OOPS. NO MORE UNIVERSE! GOD, I THINK SHE'S HUMAN HE'S OK NOW! I WILL SUCK BRAINS ROSY CHEEKS OF JESUS THE NAKED ALUMINUM THAT'S NOT REAL 2 THAT'S NOT REAL GANGRENE OR TETANUS AFTER CHURCH CHARLES BRONSON RETURNS 1953 1996, like a mirror KILL OPRAH YESTERDAY UGS IN THE SOUTH LELAND ORSER STILL LIVES? IN PRAISE, SABRINA LLOYD CURSE THE ALAMO! THOUSANDS FLY AWAY BELLY FAT BUDDHA-FUN EATING THE FAE MIKE JOHN HELD EATS BABY BEES CERTAINLY NO MESSIAH I WANT FUN THE JESUS OF MUCUS MY BROTHER IS MY SON JOHN HELD SHORTS EATER ED IS BRAINS, PRETTY CHARLES BRONSON IS A WOMAN! THE TRUTH ABOUT MARTHA PIGFACE ALL IN YOUR MIND, AMOS TONGS ON THE BAYOU VIC MORROW'S FLIGHT HISTORY STONES OF MR BRONSON MALOK IS CONDEMNED SMILE BEYOND THE DUMBSHIT NEW FLESH AND OLD ROBOTS LYNDON JOHNSON'S LAST IDEA STEVEN SEAGAL'S GREATEST PROBLEM A BANANA IN THE CONGO VINCENT EATS A SPIDER THREE STROBES IN THE SUNSHINE DOMESTIC 13 AND 18 INTERNAL HURRY, THE GORE ESCAPES A SMILE CAN MEAN ONLY ONE THING BOZO IN AREA 51 TED BUNDY ENTERS CHURCH FATE CREATE IVAN TORS ...problems?! LAUGH AT MY TEETH! PAIN WHILE SHRINKING WITH ILLUMINATION, YOU'LL WONDER ON THE LIP OF THE SHIT DESTROYERS CONDO RICE DESIST GOD, I think he's human. WEIGHTLIFTING WITH DEATHLY VIGOR ALL THE BOUNCES GOD HAS BEST ME MINA IS OF MY LESSNESS AND LOIN THE TELEPATHS ARE EVERYWHERE! KANT DRIPPINGS ON MY FACE MARLON WINKS AT MARS ANTI-AGING COOKBOOKS FOR TERRORISTS JAPANESE TIME DILATION NIPPLES/VINCENT A SQUIGGLE NUDGES THE ATOMIC FILAGREE STEVEN SEAGAL'S BEST FILM THE MALOK FAMILY CLEARS IT THE HOT/NARROW PURE HELL OF IMPOSSIBLE PRODUCT THE DEATH OF POWER THE KILLER MORON INSANITY BUSINESS ZOMBIE RIPS YOUR INNER NOSTRIL LEFT TEMPLE IS HARD TO THE BULLET DARK SIDE OF THE 35 MILLION A WET ONE IN THE DRUID EAR BRUSHBACK QUICK BEFORE I DIE THEY DIDN'T HAVE IT IN THEM! PATTY HEARST IS IN HEAVEN EZEKIEL IMPLANTS WOODEN GRAVES FRESH IN THE SPIDER WALK 105304, the final number DELIA FREEZES THE CHAMPIONS RUSS MEYER AND THE VULGAR NUNS I THREW MR. BOGART A WHAMMY vacuum of sexual problems YOUR HOME IS LOVE WITHOUT SIN MALOK=92S ORP-A-TAHTAH NOISE WATCHING ANNOUNCING THE LAST RETICULAR TIGHTNESS A SHORT NOTE TO SATAN'S NOSEHAIR THE SOLDIER REMOVES THE MAGNET FROM HIS GUN NO MERCY FOR THE LONERS CHRIS REEVE IS DEAD GEORGE REEVES IS NOT DEAD single lip ERGO COME SIT ON MY QUARTERED ASS THANK YOU, GEORGE SPENCER UNIVERSE SINCE 1987 THE POPE SMELLS, TOO THE MOST IMPORTANT PHILOSOPHY THE FOOT IS SCHIZOPHRENIC NIPPLE HORNS ON THE TWANG MY BRA OF DREAMS, THRU THE VOID'S FLAT TIRE PERFECTION IS NORMAL WELL,,,IT'S BERN AND HENRY AT THE SEVEN-ELEVEN SOUL VISUAL DECAY LOVE IN THE POOR ASSHOLE UNIVERSE VAMPIRES OF JUSTICE, SHE'S IN THE GREEN ASPECTS OF THE SOUL CRYSTAL THINK FOR YOURSELF. THAT'S IT, ASSHOLE! FATE CREATORS 4 before tupperware THE CARE TAKEN TO BUGGER MY FLESH/CELIBATE SINCE BIRTH MY SOLDIER ON THE MODERN SCREEN CE QUI FERAIT/ACCIDENTAL DEATH BLUE GOURDS IN THE DREAM/SLICE NANO-SECONDS BUZZ SURFING WITH THE H-MEN...OH! GAMMARA, KISS ME! THE ANNUAL LETTERANT TAN SUEDE COAT SITTING IN THE GLIMMERING ZIG-ZAG STASIS FATE CREATORS 3 ORDINARY COMEDY TWIXT THE GAIT IS TORN TWIXT NAKED MEN HAVE NO SMILING BREASTS LAST WEEK BEFORE THE END/THE FINAL FLASH TEXAS TO SEE FIRST POPE OVER THE PHONE-LOOPS CLASHING TEACUPS IN THE BATHTUB WOOD FUM/SERGIO LEONE 1929-1989 PIONEERS IN THE SAND(or shut my mouth forever) PAINFUL DIVINE HEALING;THE FUN STARTS FUCK ME SUCK ME EAT ME/ Social life of the primates after Cher May 1953 VINCENT PRICE IS THE GODDESS...5 EACH PERSPIRE MY PANTIES ARE THREE BILLION YEARS OLD THREE MILLION DEGREES OF UNCLE GOD-SIN MONEY IS ENTIRELY PLANTED BY NATIONAL MANLY RABBITS OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!! VISITORS FROM SPACE! I BURNED MYSELF REFUSE TO PRAY TO PEOPLE...ergo cum sit WAUKAU INTOLERANCE AKA HERO DEFAMATION MY ONLY DEBT TO ONAN SUBLIMINAL LAUGHTER IN STUPID CITY(STARS WEAR PANTS) SUBLIMINAL LAUGHTER IN STUPID CITY(STARS WEAR PANTS) EVERY MUSCLE OF ARTHRITIS AND ANGELS YELLOW PAPER POINTS AND DISTAFF ON MY TABLE-OIL RANCID DECEMBER CHEERS IN THE SLIVER BLOODY MADNESS...SCIENTISTS STRUGGLED DILIGENTLY THE EXACT SHAPE OF THE NEXT REVOLUTION OF THE SHIFTING DREAM WITHIN THE NESTLED DRIFT ROSETTA SLIME CRYSTALS (parts 2) 14...THIRD SHOTGUN rosetta slime crystals NUCLEAR WAR WEANING CAPITALS sergei eisenstein anti-matter White Papers Falling http://malok.org/further.php ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 00:44:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: Poets & memoir In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Jason-- it turned out of course that James Frey made up a lot of his so called "memoirs" --got hell from Oprah, who had originally been pushing his book-- there's a whole slew of new memoirs of the Punk period that's been coming out-- been reading them at bookstore-- just check out music section for them-- another memoir:: Peter Kropotkin--Memoirs of a Revolutionist one of the great Anarchists Beneath the Underdog--Charles Mingus >From: Jason Quackenbush >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Poets & memoir >Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 11:04:17 -0700 > >I hate memoirs. I hate them because they are both popular AND boring and I >hate them on general principle. I hate the idea that people think they're >interesting enough to be their own subjects. I hate the arrogance of the >genre. I'd much rather read fictional stories than self-aggrandizing ones. >I hate this faux-authenticity. The only people who I feel have any business >writing about themselves are those who have already been written about by >other people. To that end John Lydon's ghost written "Rotten: No Irish, No >Blacks, No Dogs" is far more interesting to me than anything some middle >class white dude has to say about quitting drinking. James Frey, of course, >being the paradigm case of how a bad memoir is just as bad as a bad novel, >the only difference being that novels at least have the option of making up >interesting things to describe, where as memoirists are limited to their >own boring lives. > > >On Wed, 9 Aug 2006 AMBogle2@AOL.COM wrote: > >>Dear list folk: >> >>A more interesting question for me this week relates to poets writing >>memoir. >>When I met up with poet, Tony Sanders, again after a long break from >>school, >>we stayed on the phone for two or three days while he told the story of >>living in Alaska. I had never had this kind of experience before except >>by >>reading. It felt like reading a book to listen to him: an emotional and >>scenic >>poet's volume. I told him I thought he should write it, that it would >>make a >>wonderful book, and he said he didn't believe poets ought to write >>memoirs. He >>cited a bad example of a poet who'd written about having sex with his dog. >> >>Two memoirs I've read fairly recently and really liked are Bob Dylan's >>vol. 1 >>and Larry Woiwode's vol. 1. >> >>In school there was a plot afoot to get all the women to write non-fiction >>personal essay and autobiography, leaving fiction and poetry for the men. >>It >>only partly worked. There was another plot to get the women not to think >>of >>themselves as poets but as nursemaids. That only partly worked. One of >>my >>friends, xta, a very talented poet, backburnered her own work and put >>songs first. >>The songs were (very) good, but so were the poems. Fifteen years later, >>she >>has been self-printing some of the poems at her blog, which mostly >>pertains to >>(good) autobiography. >> >>I live in Minnesota but am not very active in the writing community here. >>I >>get out sometimes and have so far heard poetry the most. It does seem, >>however, that there must have been a plot afoot in Minnesota to get all >>the faculty >>women to write autobiography. >> >>Just curious about other people's ideas about writers & poets & memoir. >>Please cite some good ones, too. >> >>Ann Bogle >> _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 03:28:29 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AG Jorgensen Subject: SRI LANKA and INDIA and SMURFLAND In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Returning to India byway of Sri Lanka at month's end. My return Stateside is coming, for those I've been in contact with, but still have things promised that I'd better complete. Too, I plan to trek to Ladakh. I would be interested in any news, writers, places, whatever you might choose to blurt in my direction. Has anyone seen the most recent Hillary Bust? Outside whatever one's politics, I really like it! Best, AGJ --- "Our best security, our only security, is in the world of ideas, and I sense a slight foreboding," he said.-- Justice Anthony Kennedy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 08:28:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Phil Primeau Subject: Re: DIRT #3 RELEASE In-Reply-To: <20060809.040552.-185037.35.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Steve, Well, two or three of your poems were in Dirt #2. Looking through the my e-mail archives, I don't think that you submitted to the most recent issue. I'll be glad to see you contribute to #4. Just remember that Dirt is an exclusively minimalist publication. Phil ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 08:13:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Titles of 147 New Malok Poems In-Reply-To: <93D9B20F-CA62-4BF0-9204-055597C4972C@mwt.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" these are, like, so cool! malok's on fire. At 11:36 PM -0500 8/9/06, mIEKAL aND wrote: >OOPS. NO MORE UNIVERSE! >GOD, I THINK SHE'S HUMAN >HE'S OK NOW! >I WILL SUCK BRAINS >ROSY CHEEKS OF JESUS >THE NAKED ALUMINUM >THAT'S NOT REAL 2 >THAT'S NOT REAL >GANGRENE OR TETANUS AFTER CHURCH >CHARLES BRONSON RETURNS 1953 >1996, like a mirror >KILL OPRAH YESTERDAY >UGS IN THE SOUTH >LELAND ORSER STILL LIVES? >IN PRAISE, SABRINA LLOYD >CURSE THE ALAMO! >THOUSANDS FLY AWAY >BELLY FAT BUDDHA-FUN >EATING THE FAE MIKE >JOHN HELD EATS BABY BEES >CERTAINLY NO MESSIAH >I WANT FUN >THE JESUS OF MUCUS >MY BROTHER IS MY SON >JOHN HELD SHORTS EATER >ED IS BRAINS, PRETTY >CHARLES BRONSON IS A WOMAN! >THE TRUTH ABOUT MARTHA PIGFACE >ALL IN YOUR MIND, AMOS >TONGS ON THE BAYOU >VIC MORROW'S FLIGHT HISTORY >STONES OF MR BRONSON >MALOK IS CONDEMNED >SMILE BEYOND THE DUMBSHIT >NEW FLESH AND OLD ROBOTS >LYNDON JOHNSON'S LAST IDEA >STEVEN SEAGAL'S GREATEST PROBLEM >A BANANA IN THE CONGO >VINCENT EATS A SPIDER >THREE STROBES IN THE SUNSHINE >DOMESTIC 13 AND 18 INTERNAL >HURRY, THE GORE ESCAPES >A SMILE CAN MEAN ONLY ONE THING >BOZO IN AREA 51 >TED BUNDY ENTERS CHURCH >FATE CREATE IVAN TORS ...problems?! >LAUGH AT MY TEETH! >PAIN WHILE SHRINKING >WITH ILLUMINATION, YOU'LL WONDER >ON THE LIP OF THE SHIT DESTROYERS >CONDO RICE DESIST >GOD, I think he's human. >WEIGHTLIFTING WITH DEATHLY VIGOR >ALL THE BOUNCES >GOD HAS BEST ME >MINA IS OF MY LESSNESS AND LOIN >THE TELEPATHS ARE EVERYWHERE! >KANT DRIPPINGS ON MY FACE >MARLON WINKS AT MARS >ANTI-AGING COOKBOOKS FOR TERRORISTS >JAPANESE TIME DILATION NIPPLES/VINCENT >A SQUIGGLE NUDGES THE ATOMIC FILAGREE >STEVEN SEAGAL'S BEST FILM >THE MALOK FAMILY CLEARS IT >THE HOT/NARROW PURE HELL OF IMPOSSIBLE PRODUCT >THE DEATH OF POWER >THE KILLER MORON INSANITY BUSINESS >ZOMBIE RIPS YOUR INNER NOSTRIL >LEFT TEMPLE IS HARD TO THE BULLET >DARK SIDE OF THE 35 MILLION >A WET ONE IN THE DRUID EAR BRUSHBACK >QUICK BEFORE I DIE >THEY DIDN'T HAVE IT IN THEM! >PATTY HEARST IS IN HEAVEN >EZEKIEL IMPLANTS >WOODEN GRAVES FRESH IN THE SPIDER WALK >105304, the final number >DELIA FREEZES THE CHAMPIONS >RUSS MEYER AND THE VULGAR NUNS >I THREW MR. BOGART A WHAMMY >vacuum of sexual problems >YOUR HOME IS LOVE WITHOUT SIN >MALOK'S ORP-A-TAHTAH NOISE WATCHING >ANNOUNCING THE LAST RETICULAR TIGHTNESS >A SHORT NOTE TO SATAN'S NOSEHAIR >THE SOLDIER REMOVES THE MAGNET FROM HIS GUN >NO MERCY FOR THE LONERS >CHRIS REEVE IS DEAD >GEORGE REEVES IS NOT DEAD >single lip >ERGO COME SIT ON MY QUARTERED ASS >THANK YOU, GEORGE SPENCER >UNIVERSE SINCE 1987 >THE POPE SMELLS, TOO >THE MOST IMPORTANT PHILOSOPHY >THE FOOT IS SCHIZOPHRENIC >NIPPLE HORNS ON THE TWANG >MY BRA OF DREAMS, THRU THE VOID'S FLAT TIRE >PERFECTION IS NORMAL >WELL,,,IT'S BERN AND HENRY AT THE SEVEN-ELEVEN SOUL >VISUAL DECAY LOVE IN THE POOR ASSHOLE UNIVERSE >VAMPIRES OF JUSTICE, SHE'S IN THE GREEN >ASPECTS OF THE SOUL CRYSTAL >THINK FOR YOURSELF. THAT'S IT, ASSHOLE! >FATE CREATORS 4 before tupperware >THE CARE TAKEN TO BUGGER MY FLESH/CELIBATE SINCE BIRTH >MY SOLDIER ON THE MODERN SCREEN >CE QUI FERAIT/ACCIDENTAL DEATH >BLUE GOURDS IN THE DREAM/SLICE NANO-SECONDS >BUZZ >SURFING WITH THE H-MEN...OH! GAMMARA, KISS ME! >THE ANNUAL LETTERANT >TAN SUEDE COAT SITTING IN THE GLIMMERING ZIG-ZAG STASIS >FATE CREATORS 3 >ORDINARY COMEDY >TWIXT THE GAIT IS TORN TWIXT >NAKED MEN HAVE NO SMILING BREASTS >LAST WEEK BEFORE THE END/THE FINAL FLASH >TEXAS TO SEE FIRST POPE >OVER THE PHONE-LOOPS CLASHING >TEACUPS IN THE BATHTUB >WOOD FUM/SERGIO LEONE 1929-1989 >PIONEERS IN THE SAND(or shut my mouth forever) >PAINFUL DIVINE HEALING;THE FUN STARTS >FUCK ME SUCK ME EAT ME/ Social life of the primates after Cher May 1953 >VINCENT PRICE IS THE GODDESS...5 EACH PERSPIRE >MY PANTIES ARE THREE BILLION YEARS OLD >THREE MILLION DEGREES OF UNCLE GOD-SIN >MONEY IS ENTIRELY PLANTED BY NATIONAL MANLY RABBITS >OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!! VISITORS FROM SPACE! I BURNED MYSELF >REFUSE TO PRAY TO PEOPLE...ergo cum sit >WAUKAU INTOLERANCE AKA HERO DEFAMATION >MY ONLY DEBT TO ONAN >SUBLIMINAL LAUGHTER IN STUPID CITY(STARS WEAR PANTS) >SUBLIMINAL LAUGHTER IN STUPID CITY(STARS WEAR PANTS) >EVERY MUSCLE OF ARTHRITIS AND ANGELS >YELLOW PAPER POINTS AND DISTAFF ON MY TABLE-OIL >RANCID DECEMBER CHEERS IN THE SLIVER BLOODY >MADNESS...SCIENTISTS STRUGGLED DILIGENTLY >THE EXACT SHAPE OF THE NEXT REVOLUTION >OF THE SHIFTING DREAM WITHIN THE NESTLED DRIFT >ROSETTA SLIME CRYSTALS (parts 2) >14...THIRD SHOTGUN >rosetta slime crystals >NUCLEAR WAR WEANING CAPITALS >sergei eisenstein anti-matter >White Papers Falling > >http://malok.org/further.php ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 06:49:35 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: US army ranger veteran on Iraq MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here is Jessie MacBeth, US army ranger veteran, on what the USAmerican military is doing in Iraq: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6232757351172260101&q=war ja ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 07:58:19 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joseph Thomas Subject: Re: Poets & memoir In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Check out Bob Avakian's memoir(as I'm sure some of you know, he's the Chairman of the Revolutionary Communist Party, USA). It's called, From Ike to Mao and Beyond: My Journey from Mainstream America to Revolutionary Communist. Interesting read. Best, Joseph --- Robert Lunday wrote: > If a memoir is bad, it's bad for the same reason a > book of poetry or > fiction is bad: it's bankrupt of imagination, and > lacking in true courage > (as opposed to mere exhibitionism: *Rousseau*, in > his "Confessions," somehow > manages both; and fits nicely into the fine French > tradition of > body-honesty, too: see *Michel Leiris* and de > Beauvoir for more > recent examples). > > So, a memoir has to be re-imagined, and not simply > remembered or reported. > > I've been plowing through dozens of memoirs lately > (to develop a teaching > idea, mainly -- looking for excerpts that offer > various "arguments" of the > life, different rhetorical re-inventions); and yes, > most of them are bad -- > boring, unimagined, bragging of what people used to > be ashamed of (not that > either attitude is honorable, necessarily). > > But most of the poetry books, most of the novels I > read (when I just pull > the books randomly off the shelf), are a > disappointment. > > As to the good memoirs (if sometimes unevenly so > --well, good "prose > life-writing," anyway): some of these by poets, but > not all (omitting, when > I can remember the earlier posts, the > already-mentioned in this thread): > > Philip Brady, To Prove My Blood > Sartre, The Words > Alphonse Daudet, In the Land of of Pain > Edward Dahlberg, various > Gary Soto, various pieces > John Edgar Wideman, Brothers and Keepers > C.S. Lewis, Surprised by Joy > Nabokov, Speak, Memory > Michael Ondaatje, Running in the Family > Paul West, Words for a Deaf Daughter > Melissa Green, Color is the Suffering of Light > Paul Auster, The Invention of Solitude > ...a second vote for Lucy Grealy > Goethe, Dichtung und Warheit > Lawrence, Seven Pillars of Wisdom > Zora Neale Hurston, Dust Tracks on the Road > Edwin Muir's Autobiography > Nathalie Sarraute, Childhood > Cellini, Autobiography > Ruskin, Praeterita > Hemingway, A Moveable Feast > Aeneas Gunn, We of the Never Never > Wole Soyinka, Ake > WC Williams, Autobiography... > Yeats's Autobiography > Stanislav Lem, Highcastle > Momaday, The Names > Chagall, My Life > Welty, One Writer's Beginnings > Henry Adams > Edward Said, Out of Place > > ...well, that's more than enough -- sorry, I''m a > compuslive lister! > > On 8/9/06, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > > > > I hate memoirs. I hate them because they are both > popular AND boring and I > > hate them on general principle. I hate the idea > that people think they're > > interesting enough to be their own subjects. I > hate the arrogance of the > > genre. I'd much rather read fictional stories than > self-aggrandizing ones. I > > hate this faux-authenticity. The only people who I > feel have any business > > writing about themselves are those who have > already been written about by > > other people. To that end John Lydon's ghost > written "Rotten: No Irish, No > > Blacks, No Dogs" is far more interesting to me > than anything some middle > > class white dude has to say about quitting > drinking. James Frey, of course, > > being the paradigm case of how a bad memoir is > just as bad as a bad novel, > > the only difference being that novels at least > have the option of making up > > interesting things to describe, where as > memoirists are limited to their own > > boring lives. > > > > > > On Wed, 9 Aug 2006 AMBogle2@AOL.COM wrote: > > > > > Dear list folk: > > > > > > A more interesting question for me this week > relates to poets writing > > memoir. > > > When I met up with poet, Tony Sanders, again > after a long break from > > school, > > > we stayed on the phone for two or three days > while he told the story of > > > living in Alaska. I had never had this kind of > experience before except > > by > > > reading. It felt like reading a book to listen > to him: an emotional and > > scenic > > > poet's volume. I told him I thought he should > write it, that it would > > make a > > > wonderful book, and he said he didn't believe > poets ought to write > > memoirs. He > > > cited a bad example of a poet who'd written > about having sex with his > > dog. > > > > > > Two memoirs I've read fairly recently and really > liked are Bob Dylan's > > vol. 1 > > > and Larry Woiwode's vol. 1. > > > > > > In school there was a plot afoot to get all the > women to write > > non-fiction > > > personal essay and autobiography, leaving > fiction and poetry for the > > men. It > > > only partly worked. There was another plot to > get the women not to > > think of > > > themselves as poets but as nursemaids. That > only partly worked. One of > > my > > > friends, xta, a very talented poet, backburnered > her own work and put > > songs first. > > > The songs were (very) good, but so were the > poems. Fifteen years later, > > she > > > has been self-printing some of the poems at her > blog, which mostly > > pertains to > > > (good) autobiography. > > > > > > I live in Minnesota but am not very active in > the writing community > > here. I > > > get out sometimes and have so far heard poetry > the most. It does seem, > > > however, that there must have been a plot afoot > in Minnesota to get all > > the faculty > > > women to write autobiography. > > > > > > Just curious about other people's ideas about > writers & poets & memoir. > > > Please cite some good ones, too. > > > > > > Ann Bogle > > > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 11:23:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: susan maurer Subject: Re: Poets & memoir In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed funny. susan maurer >From: Christopher Leland Winks >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Poets & memoir >Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 15:08:05 -0400 > >Well, in fact, Guillen wrote a memorable poem "Una cancion a Stalin," >which begins: "Stalin, Capitan / a quien Chango protege y a quien >resguarde Ochun. / A tu lado, cantando, los hombres libres van." It >goes on for a page and a half more, but you get the idea. > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: George Bowering >Date: Wednesday, August 9, 2006 3:09 pm >Subject: Re: Poets & memoir > > > On 9-Aug-06, at 10:30 AM, Christopher Leland Winks wrote: > > > > > Which, in his own memoir "Paginas vueltas," Nicolas Guillen (no > > friend> to Neruda, despite their shared communist affiliations) > > parodied> as "Confieso que he bebido." > > > > Maybe he didnt like Stalinist assassins. > > > > > > > > > > > George H. Bowering > > Fears a symmetrical oyster. > > _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 11:31:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christopher Leland Winks Subject: Re: Poets & memoir In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Not as funny as Guillermo Cabrera Infante=27s punishing parody of = Guillen=27s work in general and that poem in particular -- it=27s part = of =22Three Trapped Tigers=2C=22 in the section =22The Death of Trotsky = as = Described by Various Cuban Writers=2C Several Years after the Event -- = or Before=2E=22 ----- Original Message ----- From=3A susan maurer =3Csumaurer=40HOTMAIL=2ECOM=3E Date=3A Thursday=2C August 10=2C 2006 11=3A23 am Subject=3A Re=3A Poets =26 memoir =3E funny=2E susan maurer =3E = =3E = =3E =3EFrom=3A Christopher Leland Winks =3Ccqw6841=40NYU=2EEDU=3E =3E =3EReply-To=3A UB Poetics discussion group =3CPOETICS=40LISTSERV=2EB= UFFALO=2EEDU=3E =3E =3ETo=3A POETICS=40LISTSERV=2EBUFFALO=2EEDU =3E =3ESubject=3A Re=3A Poets =26 memoir =3E =3EDate=3A Wed=2C 9 Aug 2006 15=3A08=3A05 -0400 =3E =3E =3E =3EWell=2C in fact=2C Guillen wrote a memorable poem =22Una cancion = a = Stalin=2C=22 =3E =3Ewhich begins=3A =22Stalin=2C Capitan / a quien Chango protege y a= quien =3E =3Eresguarde Ochun=2E / A tu lado=2C cantando=2C los hombres libres = van=2E=22 It =3E =3Egoes on for a page and a half more=2C but you get the idea=2E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E----- Original Message ----- =3E =3EFrom=3A George Bowering =3Cbowering=40SFU=2ECA=3E =3E =3EDate=3A Wednesday=2C August 9=2C 2006 3=3A09 pm =3E =3ESubject=3A Re=3A Poets =26 memoir =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E On 9-Aug-06=2C at 10=3A30 AM=2C Christopher Leland Winks wro= te=3A =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E Which=2C in his own memoir =22Paginas vueltas=2C=22 Nico= las Guillen (no =3E =3E =3E friend=3E to Neruda=2C despite their shared communist affili= ations) =3E =3E =3E parodied=3E as =22Confieso que he bebido=2E=22 =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E Maybe he didnt like Stalinist assassins=2E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =3E George H=2E Bowering =3E =3E =3E Fears a symmetrical oyster=2E =3E =3E =3E =3E = =3E =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F =3E FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar =96 get it now! = =3E http=3A//toolbar=2Emsn=2Eclick-url=2Ecom/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01= / =3E ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 11:44:39 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AMBogle2@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Poets & memoir MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/9/06 11:59:40 AM Central Daylight Time, tsavagebar@YAHOO.COM writes: > > I don't see why poets shouldn't write their memoirs or autobiographies. I > would like to know if there is a difference between memoir and autobiography > without taking a course to find out. I'm too old for school. I've been > trying to write an autobiography for twenty years but never get beyond the first > few pages. > > Thanks for passing on recommendations for memoirs to read. The answer, then, is the memoir is more imaginative and less factual than autobiography. Did anyone read Kenneth Rexroth's Autobiographical Novel? That jacket photo of him would break your heart, it is so sad and wise. I have a real interest in genre lines because I think they create rules, and rules create games, but I appreciate the problem that they are seen as mostly there to create market niches. I went to school (UH) just before the big wave of non-fiction writing and personal essay had hit, but it was really true that as it was starting they were pushing girls into it to keep poetry and fiction for themselves or girls were trying to stay out of their way by writing nonfiction, and the men weren't that foolish, ie., to tell the truth at book length or even in a single essay. To write nonfiction was like a mortal duty and as grave. It was like being drafted. It was delusional, too, because no one had asked them to do it. There was little sense as there is now that it could be a popular decision. Anyone working on long personal essay or booklength had seen ghosts. They had the crazy hair salad on their head. I used to think poetry was the hardest to write, and it is, in detail, but novel is the hardest to live through; memoir might by worse. I would need to enroll in a memoir course now to know what is legal, especially names. But they may not know. I like stories about ordinary people. I warm up to true ones, but if they are labeled true, I expect them to stick to it. The story of Courtney Love's mother is one book out there today. I looked at the pictures. She was a hippy. Ann Bogle ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 08:52:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AG Jorgensen Subject: Re: Poets & memoir In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Mr. George Bowering: Am still waiting for that response. And I got one hell of a auto, as they say. Just looking for an old git like you to give me some sobering advice, he said at the internet bar in Hong Kong still serving drinks - and most do - at midnight. AGJ --- "Our best security, our only security, is in the world of ideas, and I sense a slight foreboding," he said.-- Justice Anthony Kennedy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 12:01:57 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lori Emerson Subject: new contact info for Lori & Ben Comments: To: Poetics+ , English Department Graduate Students MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hi everyone, sorry for the public announcement of our new contact info - but all the same here goes: Here's where you can find us now: Lori Emerson & Ben Robertson 707 North Parkwood Rd, Apt A Decatur, GA 30030 404-228-9417 (or, even better, 404-CAT-WHIP) - Lori ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 12:05:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Jeffrey Newman Subject: Re: Poets & memoir In-Reply-To: <20060810155247.78587.qmail@web53911.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Don't know if anyone mentioned it yet, but June Jordan's "Soldier" is definitely worth a read. Rich Newman ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 12:17:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Ciccariello Subject: the poem, barely alive, in landscape II MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline the poem, barely alive, in landscape II http://tinyurl.com/ewdr7* * -- Peter Ciccariello http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 18:50:35 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Subject: Re: Poets & memoir MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has this been mentioned yet? Poet's memoirs are in the news -- input "kinsella" in the google News search engine. They do these things differently in Australia. RH. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 10:57:51 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: Poets & memoir In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Hi David, That was my point about Frey, he shopped a million little pieces as a novel and got nowhere before he decided to tell people it was really a memoir so he could sell it because memoirs are HOT HOT HOT. Bad Novel became Bad Memoir. But for some reason, Oprah's book club loved it as a memoir even though it couldn't get anybody's attention when it was honestly fiction. I think the whole thing is instructive about sort of bullshit idea of authenticity that we seem to think is valuable, and we're willing to shell out for it when it's promised to us in something we would have no interest in were it not "authentic." A million little pieces then is like those "authentic reproductions" they sell of old coins on the home shopping channel, and I think to some extent all personal memoirs are like that. I think my real beef with the form, now that i'm being forced to think about it, is that there are really two types of memoir, the personal and the social. The personal memoir is a person's memory of her experience and life. These are the kinds of memoirs i hate on principle, simply because i hate the idea of a person sitting down and saying "Damn, I'm important, I bet all sorts of people all really want to read about ME ME ME!" I'm not interested in reading about YOU YOU YOU, and even more so because YOU YOU YOU are arrogant enough to think YOU YOU YOU are so important that I I I should give a damn about your life experiences. I have my own life experiences to be bored by, thanks, I don't need to be bored by someone elses. At the same time, I think there is a place for the social memoir, Henry Rollins "Get in the Van" about the early days of hardcore, John Lydon's about the beginning of punk, Marguerite Duras' "The War" about the French Resistance, Jim Tullies "Beggars of Life" or Jack Black's "You Can't Win" about hobo living in pre-war america. But those are stories about a person's involvement in a society and it's more the story of the society than it is of the person, and that, I think, is something reasonable to take one's subject. On Thu, 10 Aug 2006, David-Baptiste Chirot wrote: > Jason-- > it turned out of course that James Frey made up a lot of his so called > "memoirs" > --got hell from Oprah, who had originally been pushing his book-- > there's a whole slew of new memoirs of the Punk period that's been coming out-- > been reading them at bookstore-- > just check out music section for them-- > another memoir:: Peter Kropotkin--Memoirs of a Revolutionist > one of the great Anarchists > Beneath the Underdog--Charles Mingus > > >> From: Jason Quackenbush >> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: Re: Poets & memoir >> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 11:04:17 -0700 >> >> I hate memoirs. I hate them because they are both popular AND boring and I >> hate them on general principle. I hate the idea that people think they're >> interesting enough to be their own subjects. I hate the arrogance of the >> genre. I'd much rather read fictional stories than self-aggrandizing ones. I >> hate this faux-authenticity. The only people who I feel have any business >> writing about themselves are those who have already been written about by >> other people. To that end John Lydon's ghost written "Rotten: No Irish, No >> Blacks, No Dogs" is far more interesting to me than anything some middle >> class white dude has to say about quitting drinking. James Frey, of course, >> being the paradigm case of how a bad memoir is just as bad as a bad novel, >> the only difference being that novels at least have the option of making up >> interesting things to describe, where as memoirists are limited to their own >> boring lives. >> >> >> On Wed, 9 Aug 2006 AMBogle2@AOL.COM wrote: >> >>> Dear list folk: >>> >>> A more interesting question for me this week relates to poets writing >>> memoir. >>> When I met up with poet, Tony Sanders, again after a long break from >>> school, >>> we stayed on the phone for two or three days while he told the story of >>> living in Alaska. I had never had this kind of experience before except >>> by >>> reading. It felt like reading a book to listen to him: an emotional and >>> scenic >>> poet's volume. I told him I thought he should write it, that it would >>> make a >>> wonderful book, and he said he didn't believe poets ought to write >>> memoirs. He >>> cited a bad example of a poet who'd written about having sex with his dog. >>> >>> Two memoirs I've read fairly recently and really liked are Bob Dylan's >>> vol. 1 >>> and Larry Woiwode's vol. 1. >>> >>> In school there was a plot afoot to get all the women to write non-fiction >>> personal essay and autobiography, leaving fiction and poetry for the men. >>> It >>> only partly worked. There was another plot to get the women not to think >>> of >>> themselves as poets but as nursemaids. That only partly worked. One of >>> my >>> friends, xta, a very talented poet, backburnered her own work and put >>> songs first. >>> The songs were (very) good, but so were the poems. Fifteen years later, >>> she >>> has been self-printing some of the poems at her blog, which mostly >>> pertains to >>> (good) autobiography. >>> >>> I live in Minnesota but am not very active in the writing community here. >>> I >>> get out sometimes and have so far heard poetry the most. It does seem, >>> however, that there must have been a plot afoot in Minnesota to get all >>> the faculty >>> women to write autobiography. >>> >>> Just curious about other people's ideas about writers & poets & memoir. >>> Please cite some good ones, too. >>> >>> Ann Bogle >>> > > _________________________________________________________________ > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 13:18:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Fwd: New Cultural Studies Ph.D. Program at Stony Brook Comments: To: morri074@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU, SKuftinec@aol.com, werry001@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU, lukka005@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > >From: ilivingston@notes.cc.sunysb.edu >Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 10:05:30 -0400 > > >Dear Colleague-- > >We're very pleased to announce that Comparative Literary and Cultural >Studies (CLCS) at Stony Brook University is now accepting applicants for >our new PhD Program in Cultural Studies. We invite you to consult our >website for complete information: >http://www.stonybrook.edu/complit/new/phd_cst.html. > >Since we won't be sending out hardcopy announcements, could you please help >us get the word out by forwarding this message to any colleagues and >students who might have an interest? > >The Cultural Studies Ph.D. Program builds on the success of our >longstanding Comp Lit MA/PhD programs, our graduate certificate program in >Cultural Studies (since 1998) and a continually growing undergrad major in >Cinema and Cultural Studies. We are committed to offering at least four >years of funding, including teaching assistantships, to all students >accepted into the program. > >At the core of the program are nine faculty in CLCS and 25 affiliated >faculty from ten departments: Africana Studies, Art, English, European >Languages, Hispanic Languages, History, Music, Philosophy, Theater, and >Women's Studies. > >Stony Brook University (http://stonybrook.edu/) is located on Long Island, >about 50 miles from New York City . "The Island" is home of beautiful >beaches, quaint colonial villages and strip malls. "The City" is-- well, >it's New York City. > >Please do forward this message, and feel free to email us with any >questions-- > >Sincerely, > >Ira Livingston, Cultural Studies Program Director >Robert Harvey, CLCS Chair ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 16:06:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: Poets & memoir MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I read the first edition of Rexroth's AUTOBIOGRAPHICAL NOVEL -- if I remember right, that title was at the insistence of the publisher, who was worried about law suits -- hence the "novel" On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 11:44:39, AMBogle2@AOL.COM wrote: > In a message dated 8/9/06 11:59:40 AM Central Daylight Time, > tsavagebar@YAHOO.COM writes: > > > > > > I don't see why poets shouldn't write their memoirs or autobiographies. I > > would like to know if there is a difference between memoir and autobiography > > without taking a course to find out. I'm too old for school. I've been > > trying to write an autobiography for twenty years but never get beyond the first > > few pages. > > > > > > Thanks for passing on recommendations for memoirs to read. > > The answer, then, is the memoir is more imaginative and less factual than > autobiography. Did anyone read Kenneth Rexroth's Autobiographical Novel? That > jacket photo of him would break your heart, it is so sad and wise. > > I have a real interest in genre lines because I think they create rules, and > rules create games, but I appreciate the problem that they are seen as mostly > there to create market niches. > > I went to school (UH) just before the big wave of non-fiction writing and > personal essay had hit, but it was really true that as it was starting they were > pushing girls into it to keep poetry and fiction for themselves or girls were > trying to stay out of their way by writing nonfiction, and the men weren't > that foolish, ie., to tell the truth at book length or even in a single essay. > To write nonfiction was like a mortal duty and as grave. It was like being > drafted. It was delusional, too, because no one had asked them to do it. There > was little sense as there is now that it could be a popular decision. Anyone > working on long personal essay or booklength had seen ghosts. They had the > crazy hair salad on their head. I used to think poetry was the hardest to > write, and it is, in detail, but novel is the hardest to live through; memoir might > by worse. I would need to enroll in a memoir course now to know what is > legal, especially names. But they may not know. > > I like stories about ordinary people. I warm up to true ones, but if they > are labeled true, I expect them to stick to it. The story of Courtney Love's > mother is one book out there today. I looked at the pictures. She was a hippy. > > Ann Bogle > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 16:08:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: Poets & memoir MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain And then there's the intriguing situation of the AUTOBIOGRAPHY OF LEROI JONES by Amiri Baraka -- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 17:17:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: DIRT #3 RELEASE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit thanks forgot been bogged down will send soon mini as possible as fer instance fact / simile ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 17:34:39 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Larissa Shmailo Subject: Re: DIRT #3 RELEASE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hard to search for DIRT on the web--how to read, submit? Larissa Shmailo ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 16:37:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: Re: DIRT #3 RELEASE In-Reply-To: <20060810.172629.-79851.9.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable if they're looking for two-worders, why=20 don't they change the name to GRANULE ? -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Steve Dalachinsky Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 16:18 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: DIRT #3 RELEASE thanks forgot been bogged down will send soon mini as possible as fer instance fact / simile ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 16:44:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: Re: DIRT #3 RELEASE In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable here: http://dirt-zine.tripod.com/index.html "Currently accepting submissions. Dirt is an irregularly published newsletter/'zine of ultra-simple, minimalist poetry and poetics. Contributions should be no more than a few short lines -- at most. Please e-mail all submissions to dirt_zine AT yahoo DOT com. We prefer to show work which has previously been unpublished or which has appeared on a limited basis (blogs, school journals, so on & so forth). " -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Larissa Shmailo Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 16:35 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: DIRT #3 RELEASE Hard to search for DIRT on the web--how to read, submit? =20 Larissa Shmailo ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 18:35:07 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: The Art of War by Eyal Weizman MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The Art of War Eyal Weizman Eyal Weizman is an architect, writer and Director of Goldsmith’s College Centre for Research Architecture. His work deals with issues of conflict territories and human rights. http://infoshop.org/inews/article.php?story=20060801170800738 Intro: "The Israeli Defence Forces have been heavily influenced by contemporary philosophy, highlighting the fact that there is considerable overlap among theoretical texts deemed essential by military academies and architectural schools." Exit: "When the military talks theory to itself, it seems to be about changing its organizational structure and hierarchies. When it invokes theory in communications with the public – in lectures, broadcasts and publications – it seems to be about projecting an image of a civilized and sophisticated military. And when the military ‘talks’ (as every military does) to the enemy, theory could be understood as a particularly intimidating weapon of ‘shock and awe’, the message being: ‘You will never even understand that which kills you.’" ja ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 21:12:10 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Crockett Subject: listenlight 01 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT listenlight new issue 01 issue 01: Rob McLennan, Amanda Laughtland, Phil Primeau, Eileen Tabios, Matina Samatakis, Donna Kuhn archive issue 00: Christine Hamm, Erica Kaufman, Kari Edwards, Guillermo Parra --Jesse Crockett ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 21:40:12 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: listenlight 01 In-Reply-To: <44DBE77A.3010503@listenlight.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit beautiful name for a magazine On Aug 10, 2006, at 9:12 PM, Jesse Crockett wrote: > listenlight new issue 01 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 21:51:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Henry A. Lazer" Subject: KPFA radio interviews MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit • HANK LAZER INTERVIEW AND READING ON BERKELEY RADIO STATION – On three consecutive Wednesday afternoons, Aug. 16, 23 and 30, from 3:30- 4 p.m. (PDT), Berkeley radio station KPFA 94.1 will broadcast programs featuring the poetry of UA faculty member and administrator Hank Lazer. Cover to Cover host Jack Foley interviews Lazer and explores his most recent work. Lazer, a California-born poet/critic, discusses his books, Elegies and Vacations and The New Spirit. Lazer has published 12 books of poetry and has given poetry readings and talks in the United States, France, Canada, China, and Spain. Lazer’s poetry has been nominated for the 2005 Pulitzer Prize and the 2004 Forward Prize. With Charles Bernstein, he edits the Modern and Contemporary Poetics Series for the University of Alabama Press. After their initial broadcast, the KPFA radio shows can be accessed through the URL for Jack Foley’s show by going to the archives: http://kpfa.org/1pro_bio/1b_foley.htm. The general URL for KPFA is http://www.kpfa.org/. -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 21:46:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: Re: Poets & memoir Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=response MMMMemories Please consider arranged least retirement year BOOM class ass stand take going come all. Please consider asked herself wanting just BOOM arm moaned slipped shirt same body. Please consider badly such gentleman big boy giggled BOOM long enough being able go back yet. Please consider barely needed one smiled Champ BOOM time assess more slut like you. 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Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.9/416 - Release Date: 8/10/2006 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 00:28:53 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: m1/ 3 events that rock... did i say that Comments: cc: Acousticlv@aol.com, AdeenaKarasick@cs.com, AGosfield@aol.com, alonech@acedsl.com, Altjazz@aol.com, amirib@aol.com, Amramdavid@aol.com, anansi1@earthlink.net, AnselmBerrigan@aol.com, arlenej2@verizon.net, Barrywal23@aol.com, bdlilrbt@icqmail.com, butchershoppoet@hotmail.com, CarolynMcClairPR@aol.com, CaseyCyr@aol.com, CHASEMANHATTAN1@aol.com, Djmomo17@aol.com, Dsegnini1216@aol.com, flint@artphobia.com, Gfjacq@aol.com, Hooker99@aol.com, rakien@gmail.com, jeromerothenberg@hotmail.com, Jeromesala@aol.com, JillSR@aol.com, JoeLobell@cs.com, JohnLHagen@aol.com, kather8@katherinearnoldi.com, Kevtwi@aol.com, krkubert@hotmail.com, LakiVaz@aol.com, Lisevachon@aol.com, Nuyopoman@AOL.COM, Pedevski@aol.com, pom2@pompompress.com, Rabinart@aol.com, Rcmorgan12@aol.com, reggiedw@comcast.net, RichKostelanetz@aol.com, RnRBDN@aol.com, Smutmonke@aol.com, sprygypsy@yahoo.com, SHoltje@aol.com, Sumnirv@aol.com, tcumbie@nyc.rr.com, velasquez@nyc.com, VITORICCI@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit august 20th - sunday @ bowery poetry club 308 bowery (houston & bleeker) 6 pm more readings by great writers/ or welcome to the bpc jimmy feast, jimmy feast herschel silverman bonny finberg tsaurah litzky jim feast jill rapaport steve dalachinsky tom savage donation + 1 drink minimum ______________________________________ august 24th thursday @ lalita java cafe e. 3rd st (B & C ) 7 pm yuko otomo ( just back from japan ) steve dalachinsky + others to be announced curated by dorothy august friedman great back room - good coffee first 5 to sign up -get to read in open free ______________________________________ august 27th @ tribes gallery 285 e. 3rd st. 6 pm victor hernandez cruz yuko otomo ishmael reed donation ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 21:48:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: Re: KPFA radio interviews Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original SUGGESTED INTERVIEW TOPICS How about afloat tale pathfinder? How about afloat tale pathfinder CHAINBEARER? How about afloat tale pathfinder deerslayer heidenmauer tale wyandotté mohicans tale satanstoe mohicans tale wish-ton-wish afloat tale pilot DEERSLAYER TALE tale chainbearer? How about afloat tale pathfinder DEERSLAYER TALE deerslayer...? How about afloat tale pathfinder DEERSLAYER TALE tale deerslayer tale deerslayer tale wish-ton-wish tale pathfinder? How about afloat tale pathfinder deerslayer tale wish-ton-wish tale pathfinder? How about afloat tale pathfinder heidenmauer tale? How about afloat tale pathfinder PRAIRIE? How about afloat tale pathfinder prairie PATHFINDER TALE WATER-WITCH TALE? How about afloat tale pathfinder prairie tale wyandotté deerslayer tale wish-ton-wish tale satanstoe deerslayer tale pathfinder mohicans tale wish-ton-wish tale PRAIRIE TALE WYANDOTTé pathfinder mohicans tale tale heidenmauer satanstoe? 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How about afloat tale pathfinder tale heidenmauer pilot mohicans tale wish-ton-wish afloat tale pilot pathfinder mohicans tale tale tale heidenmauer TALE DEERSLAYER TALE mohicans satanstoe tale? How about afloat tale pathfinder TALE PRAIRIE WATER-WITCH HEIDENMAUER PATHFINDER satanstoe? How about afloat tale pathfinder tale wish-ton-wish AFLOAT TALE WISH-TON-WISH TALE SATANSTOE TALE mohicans tale satanstoe? How about afloat tale wish-ton-wish tale? How about afloat tale wish-ton-wish tale DEERSLAYER TALE? How about afloat tale wish-ton-wish tale pathfinder tale pathfinder tale water-witch tale tale prairie water-witch tale wish-ton-wish tale SATANSTOE TALE WISH-TON-WISH TALE CHAINBEARER mohicans tale wish-ton-wish afloat tale pilot? How about afloat tale wish-ton-wish tale PRAIRIE afloat tale wish-ton-wish tale heidenmauer tale? How about afloat tale wish-ton-wish tale prairie PATHFINDER TALE WATER-WITCH TALE DEERSLAYER TALE PRAIRIE heidenmauer pilot tale? How about afloat tale wish-ton-wish tale SATANSTOE DEERSLAYER chainbearer wish-ton-wish tale? How about afloat tale wish-ton-wish tale SATANSTOE TALE CHAINBEARER DEERSLAYER afloat tale wish-ton-wish tale? How about afloat tale wish-ton-wish tale TALE? How about afloat tale wish-ton-wish tale tale deerslayer wish-ton-wish prairie satanstoe deerslayer mohicans satanstoe tale TALE PILOT MOHICANS mohicans tale satanstoe? How about afloat tale wish-ton-wish tale tale pilot tale heidenmauer tale mohicans tale pilot tale tale wish-ton-wish tale DEERSLAYER TALE satanstoe deerslayer? How about afloat tale wish-ton-wish tale tale wish-ton-wish satanstoe tale wyandotté wyandotté wish-ton-wish tale deerslayer tale prairie TALE heidenmauer tale? How about afloat tale wish-ton-wish tale wyandotté tale WISH-TON-WISH PRAIRIE? How about chainbearer? How about chainbearer afloat tale wish-ton-wish tale satanstoe tale wyandotté wyandotté tale tale prairie tale chainbearer deerslayer CHAINBEARER tale prairie water-witch? How about chainbearer chainbearer deerslayer tale prairie water-witch heidenmauer pathfinder pathfinder deerslayer... DEERSLAYER TALE deerslayer...? How about CHAINBEARER DEERSLAYER? How about CHAINBEARER DEERSLAYER deerslayer tale? How about chainbearer deerslayer DEERSLAYER TALE heidenmauer tale? How about CHAINBEARER DEERSLAYER mohicans tale pilot tale? How about chainbearer deerslayer prairie TALE HEIDENMAUER PILOT heidenmauer tale pathfinder tale water-witch tale? How about chainbearer deerslayer satanstoe MOHICANS TALE WISH-TON-WISH AFLOAT TALE PILOT? How about chainbearer deerslayer TALE HEIDENMAUER PILOT TALE tale deerslayer tale? How about chainbearer deerslayer tale wish-ton-wish deerslayer tale deerslayer tale mohicans tale wish-ton-wish afloat tale satanstoe tale wyandotté DEERSLAYER TALE tale prairie tale? How about chainbearer deerslayer tale wish-ton-wish mohicans tale satanstoe tale heidenmauer wish-ton-wish tale pilot deerslayer tale prairie TALE mohicans tale pilot tale wish-ton-wish tale deerslayer tale wish-ton-wish tale pathfinder? How about chainbearer deerslayer tale wish-ton-wish pathfinder heidenmauer pilot tale wish-ton-wish prairie tale deerslayer tale WISH-TON-WISH PRAIRIE heidenmauer pilot tale? How about chainbearer deerslayer tale wish-ton-wish tale heidenmauer prairie satanstoe tale prairie satanstoe tale prairie TALE wyandotté tale tale heidenmauer pilot wish-ton-wish tale? How about chainbearer DEERSLAYER TALE WISH-TON-WISH TALE PATHFINDER satanstoe tale tale heidenmauer pilot? 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How about heidenmauer pilot tale pathfinder wish-ton-wish tale deerslayer tale wish-ton-wish tale pathfinder satanstoe tale prairie chainbearer WISH-TON-WISH TALE wyandotté? How about heidenmauer pilot tale tale heidenmauer deerslayer... tale deerslayer tale tale pilot mohicans wyandotté tale PATHFINDER MOHICANS TALE mohicans tale satanstoe? How about heidenmauer pilot tale wish-ton-wish tale AFLOAT TALE PATHFINDER HEIDENMAUER TALE wish-ton-wish prairie? How about heidenmauer pilot tale wish-ton-wish tale MOHICANS TALE PILOT TALE SATANSTOE TALE deerslayer tale prairie? How about heidenmauer tale? How about heidenmauer tale afloat tale wish-ton-wish tale TALE DEERSLAYER TALE? How about heidenmauer tale chainbearer deerslayer MOHICANS TALE SATANSTOE? How about heidenmauer tale chainbearer deerslayer satanstoe tale pathfinder tale water-witch tale heidenmauer pathfinder tale wish-ton-wish CHAINBEARER DEERSLAYER wish-ton-wish prairie? How about heidenmauer tale deerslayer TALE CHAINBEARER? How about heidenmauer tale deerslayer tale chainbearer deerslayer afloat tale wish-ton-wish tale tale deerslayer tale tale heidenmauer PATHFINDER MOHICANS TALE mohicans tale satanstoe? How about heidenmauer tale deerslayer tale wish-ton-wish? How about heidenmauer tale heidenmauer tale? How about heidenmauer tale pathfinder mohicans tale wish-ton-wish tale? How about heidenmauer tale pathfinder tale TALE prairie mohicans tale wish-ton-wish afloat tale? How about heidenmauer tale PRAIRIE deerslayer tale wish-ton-wish tale pathfinder? How about heidenmauer tale SATANSTOE DEERSLAYER? How about heidenmauer tale satanstoe deerslayer deerslayer tale satanstoe tale deerslayer pathfinder tale water-witch tale TALE DEERSLAYER TALE wyandotté tale tale pilot tale pathfinder? How about heidenmauer tale satanstoe deerslayer wish-ton-wish tale pathfinder mohicans tale heidenmauer tale deerslayer tale WISH-TON-WISH PRAIRIE wyandotté SATANSTOE TALE WYANDOTTé wish-ton-wish tale? How about HEIDENMAUER TALE satanstoe tale? How about heidenmauer tale satanstoe tale wish-ton-wish tale chainbearer? How about heidenmauer tale tale? How about heidenmauer tale tale deerslayer tale pathfinder tale water-witch tale? How about heidenmauer tale tale heidenmauer heidenmauer tale prairie mohicans satanstoe tale satanstoe deerslayer TALE WISH-TON-WISH tale heidenmauer pilot? How about heidenmauer tale TALE HEIDENMAUER TALE HEIDENMAUER PILOT deerslayer...? How about heidenmauer tale tale prairie water-witch PRAIRIE satanstoe tale prairie tale chainbearer? How about heidenmauer tale TALE WISH-TON-WISH chainbearer? How about heidenmauer tale wish-ton-wish tale satanstoe tale deerslayer tale prairie mohicans satanstoe tale deerslayer tale TALE WISH-TON-WISH prairie? How about HEIDENMAUER TALE wyandotté? How about MOHICANS SATANSTOE TALE? How about mohicans satanstoe tale AFLOAT TALE PATHFINDER? How about mohicans satanstoe tale deerslayer tale tale chainbearer pathfinder tale water-witch tale tale tale heidenmauer TALE PILOT MOHICANS tale? How about mohicans satanstoe tale DEERSLAYER TALE WISH-TON-WISH TALE SATANSTOE? How about mohicans satanstoe tale deerslayer tale wish-ton-wish tale satanstoe SATANSTOE TALE PRAIRIE? How about MOHICANS SATANSTOE TALE deerslayer...? How about mohicans satanstoe tale mohicans tale pilot tale CHAINBEARER? How about mohicans satanstoe tale mohicans tale pilot tale pathfinder mohicans tale mohicans satanstoe tale deerslayer tale heidenmauer tale CHAINBEARER wish-ton-wish tale? How about mohicans satanstoe tale mohicans tale wish-ton-wish afloat tale MOHICANS TALE WISH-TON-WISH AFLOAT TALE PILOT? How about mohicans satanstoe tale satanstoe deerslayer deerslayer tale satanstoe deerslayer wish-ton-wish prairie tale wish-ton-wish CHAINBEARER DEERSLAYER pathfinder mohicans tale wish-ton-wish prairie tale chainbearer? How about mohicans satanstoe tale SATANSTOE HEIDENMAUER PILOT TALE satanstoe tale wyandotté? How about mohicans satanstoe tale satanstoe tale prairie prairie tale wyandotté wyandotté prairie wish-ton-wish tale pilot DEERSLAYER mohicans satanstoe tale? How about MOHICANS SATANSTOE TALE tale? How about mohicans satanstoe tale tale deerslayer tale tale satanstoe tale wyandotté mohicans satanstoe tale TALE DEERSLAYER TALE prairie tale wyandotté MOHICANS SATANSTOE TALE tale prairie water-witch? How about mohicans satanstoe tale tale tale prairie tale tale heidenmauer tale chainbearer mohicans tale wish-ton-wish afloat tale pilot AFLOAT TALE PATHFINDER tale wish-ton-wish? How about mohicans satanstoe tale wish-ton-wish tale chainbearer? How about mohicans satanstoe tale wish-ton-wish tale MOHICANS TALE PILOT TALE WYANDOTTé TALE pathfinder? How about mohicans tale pilot tale? How about mohicans tale pilot tale deerslayer tale tale chainbearer satanstoe chainbearer deerslayer tale prairie tale HEIDENMAUER PATHFINDER wish-ton-wish prairie? How about mohicans tale pilot tale mohicans tale pilot tale TALE DEERSLAYER TALE? How about mohicans tale pilot tale prairie tale wyandotté PATHFINDER TALE? How about mohicans tale pilot tale satanstoe mohicans satanstoe tale mohicans tale pilot tale deerslayer tale wish-ton-wish tale satanstoe chainbearer SATANSTOE tale? How about mohicans tale pilot tale satanstoe tale DEERSLAYER TALE PRAIRIE? How about mohicans tale pilot tale SATANSTOE TALE PRAIRIE afloat tale wish-ton-wish tale? How about mohicans tale pilot tale satanstoe tale wyandotté deerslayer tale prairie satanstoe tale wish-ton-wish tale chainbearer mohicans tale wish-ton-wish afloat tale satanstoe tale TALE CHAINBEARER deerslayer tale wish-ton-wish tale satanstoe? -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.9/416 - Release Date: 8/10/2006 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 00:52:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Boog City presents Third Annual Small, Small Press Fair and Rachel Lipson Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable please forward ---------------- Boog City presents =20 d.a. levy lives: celebrating the renegade press =20 Season 4 Kick-off:=20 Third Annual Small, Small Press Fair Thurs. Aug. 17, 6:00 p.m., free ACA Galleries 529 W.20th St., 5th Flr. NYC with talks and readings by editors and contributors from: =20 Fence, co-editor Charles Valle and poetry editor Max Winter Fungo Monographs, editor and publisher Ryan Murphy Futurepoem books, editor and publisher Dan Machlin Hanging Loose Press, associate editor Marie Carter Kitchen Press, editor Justin Marks Lungfull, editor Brendan Lorber Open 24 Hours, editors John Coletti and Greg Fuchs Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs, editor Brenda Iijima Sona Books, editor Jill Magi and music from Rachel Lipson There will be wine, cheese, and fruit, too. =20 Curated and with an introduction by Boog City editor David Kirschenbaum For information call 212-842-BOOG (2664) * editor@boogcity.com Directions: C/E to 23rd St., 1/9 to 18th St. Venue is bet. 10th and 11th avenues =8B=8B=8B=8B=8B=8B *Boog City is a New York City-based small press now in its 15th year and East Village community newspaper of the same name. It has also published 35 volumes of poetry and various magazines, featuring work by Allen Ginsberg and Lawrence Ferlinghetti among others, and theme issues on baseball, women=B9s writing, and Louisville, KY. It hosts and curates two regular performance series--d.a. levy lives: celebrating the renegade press, where each month a non-NYC small press and its writers and a musical act of their choosing is hosted at Chelsea's ACA Galleries; and Classic Albums Live, where 5-13 local musical acts perform a classic album live at venues including The Bowery Poetry Club, CBGB's, and The Knitting Factory. Past albums have included Elvis Costello, My Aim is True; Nirvana, Nevermind; an= d Liz Phair, Exile in Guyville. *Fence Fabulously non-wealthy founding editor Rebecca Wolff launched Fence in 1998= , with the invaluable aid of her beloved compatriots Caroline Crumpacker, Jonathan Lethem, Frances Richard, and Matthew Rohrer. Max Winter signed up soon after and has the distinction of being the only non-original editor who's lasted more than a few years, so far. Read the history books: It's been a long steady roll down the hill of institutional derangement. Fence Books was launched in 2001 and continues to awe the caring populace with th= e genius it smacks between covers (French folds, at that). Support Fence! Current editors include brilliances Lynne Tillman, Christopher Stackhouse, Katy Lederer, and, last but far from least, Charles Valle, who keeps our little picket boat afloat. *Fungo Monographs is the publisher of "Seven Palms" by Kira Henehan, and belongs to a series of one-shot publications published at random intervals and inefficiently distributed. Jordan Davis has described Fungo Monographs and the collective one-shot series as: "perhaps the most perverse concept o= f branding yet to emerge from poetryland's anti-business-model incubator..." *Futurepoem publishes innovative prose, poetry and cross-genre literature b= y both emerging and underrepresented writers. Our rotating editorial panel shares the responsibility for selecting and helping to publicize the books that we publish. Before submitting work, we recommend perusing our previous titles as a good indication of the range of work that we like to publish. For more information on publications and submission guidelines, visit futurepoem.com and consider joining our mailing list. *Hanging Loose is celebrating its 40th anniversary this year. It is one of the oldest small literary presses in the country. The name was inspired by the format of the original magazine--mimeographed loose pages in a cover envelope--and that, in turn, was inspired by a very low budget. Effective with the 25th issue we abandoned that format to the relief of librarians an= d booksellers. =20 Early on, the Hanging Loose editors decided we were not interested in begging poems from famous writers but in stressing work by new writers and older writers whose work deserved a larger audience. =20 The editors are proud of having published many first books, including the first full collections by Sherman Alexie, Kimiko Hahn, D. Nurkse, Jack Ag=FCeros, Elinor Nauen, Joanna Fuhrman, Maggie Nelson, Indran Amirthanayagam= , and Beth Bosworth, among others. Some of the other writers published by HL are Wilma Elizabeth McDaniel, Frances Phillips, Harvey Shapiro, Jayne Cortez, Ron Overton, Helen Adam, Paul Violi, Charles North, Ha Jin, Morton Marcus, Maureen Owen, Donna Brook, Yukihide Hartman, Jack Anderson and Ed Friedman. *Kitchen Press is a micro-press run out of Hell's Kitchen, NYC, and is a member of CLMP. It's purpose is to publish quality handmade chapbooks by emerging poets.=20 *Rachel Lipson is a Brooklyn-based songwriter who performs her simple, honest songs on guitar (and sometimes ukulele and banjo). Born near Detroit= , MI, she spent her childhood building forts with her brother and sister in the living room, contemplating the dangers of the dark and pizza deliverers= , riding horses and playing with friends. Rachel first picked up a guitar at age 16 and a few years later, after having moved to New York, began craftin= g the songs that would make up her first album, This Way, which she self-released the next year. In 2003 Rachel released a 7" with Rough Trade recording artist Jeffrey Lewis, on Holland's Nowhere Fast record label and self-released her second album Some More Songs. She toured Europe for seven weeks with Lewis and Herman D=FCne in the summer, including the Mofo festival in Paris in July. In the fall, Rachel recorded a new album at Olive Juice Studios in New York for her latest release Pastures on Meccico Records, a U= K label founded and run by members of Cornershop. In the last few years, Rachel has collaborated and performed extensively with Leah Hayes (of La Laque and Scary Mansion), Herman D=FCne and others and has played alongside Eugene Chadbourne, Kimya Dawson, Daniel Johnston, The Mountain Goats and Refrigerator, as well as twice performing live on WFMU in New Jersey and on WNYC, a division of NPR. Rachel Lipson's music combines a sort of radical simplicity and honesty with intricately woven narratives. The lyrics seem t= o have as much to do with William Faulkner as they do with Woody Guthrie. The music recalls the earliest folk traditions and yet speaks at the same time to a contemporary minimal aesthetic. While sometimes the approach is blindingly direct and at others masterfully oblique, the overall effect is irresistible, one of invitingly gentle beauty and clarity. *Lungfull! Magazine is the waterproof brainchild of editor Brendan Lorber. Featuring an impeccably glossy cover and usually illustrated by Lorber's drawings (which quite often include sketches of poets reading publicly), th= e magazine is unique in that it juxtaposes the first draft of a work with the published version, and includes an extensive "working note" by writers. It'= s highly compelling to examine where a writer began with an idea, and how s/h= e took that idea into a finished poem. And the first drafts present an enormous range: from scribbled drawings on napkins, to just-about-finished typed poems that apparently sprang out full-blown, like Athena from the hea= d of Zeus. Contributors include Bill Berkson, Eileen Myles, Alice Notley, Wal= t Whitman, and Emily Dickinson. *Open 24 Hours is dedicated to publishing limited edition books by poets working in traditions rooted in experimentation and social engagement. The Open 24 Hours design is influenced by the staple-bound mimeo revolution of the American small press underground most visibly recognized in the books published by many 2nd- and 3rd-generation New York School Poets. We have simply adapted the method to digital technology. Open 24 Hours has published books by Mariana Ruiz Firmat, Corina Copp, Bets= y Fagin, Joel Dailey, Chris Toll, and Steve Carey. Forthcoming are books by Erica Kaufman, Arlo Quint, Will Yakulic, and Dustin Williamson. Open 24 Hours is based in New York City, edited and designed by John Colett= i and Greg Fuchs. Jon Allen is our in-house illustrator. We took the name fro= m D.C. poet Buck Downs, who published a poetry zine by the same name. Downs inherited Open 24 Hours from Baltimore poet Chris Toll, who started it in 1980. *Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs endeavors to publish works that possess a vitality and holistically consider emotional and political realms to say th= e least. Works that venture out beyond writing program platforms and communit= y expectations. Works that have substantiality in the way of vision. *Sona Books, run out of Brooklyn, is a community-based chapbook press with = a corresponding web magazine, published about two times a year, at www.sonaweb.net. Sona Books publishes works that are quiet, risky, experimental, collaborative, hybrid, and sometimes rough around the edges. The press seeks ways to reach wide audiences and to teach non-poets about so-called "difficult" poetries and prose works; to this end, the press runs a subscription series, publishes bulletins entitled "how to read a Sona Book," and encourages writers to publish process notes. It's the goal of Sona Books to stay small, to reach out to poets whose projects may be "unde= r the radar," to facilitate self-publishing exchanges among writers, and to affirm generative relationships between editor and writer. =8B=8B=8B=8B=8B=8B =20 http://www.fencemag.com/v9n1/ http://www.futurepoem.com/ http://www.hangingloosepress.com/ http://www.kitchenpresschapbooks.blogspot.com/ http://lungfull.org/ Open 24 Hours: greg@gregfuchs.com or acoldgobot@hotmail.com http://www.sonaweb.net/brendaiijima.htm http://www.sonaweb.net/ http://www.rachellipson.org/ http://www.myspace.com/rachellipson Next event, Thurs. Sept. 7 Anchorite Editions (Albany) =8B=20 David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 06:33:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alexander Dickow Subject: memoir and "personal writing" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Jason, Some writers, memoirs or otherwise, are obnoxiously arrogant about their experience. According to a Rousseau specialist I took a course with, many people never get past the first few pages of the Confessions -- just out of principle, so put off were they by its posturing. But, someone made a comment not long ago to me that they didn't understand why others might not be interested in personal experiences. It got me to thinking. Here's what I think (arrogant me, perhaps, who knows, I've been told), open for general discussion: I don't write about myself, and avoid autobiographical content in my work. But I don't mind it in anybody else's, and if I don't do it, it's because it bores ME. I already went through all those Personal Experiences, and don't need to write about them. But lots of people lead very interesting lives -- I've even met a few that have, by most standards -- and I'm happy to read about them, if they're happy to write (WELL!!!) about them. If people are mentioning Rimbaud's Season as poetic memoir, than I'll have to add Char's Feuillets d'Hypnos, poems written in margins during the Resistance, and Aime Cesaire too, why not.... While I'm at it, anyone know where I can find a cheap copy of stuff by Paulin Gagne (in French)? Yours, Alex --- POETICS automatic digest system wrote: Jason Quackenbush wrote: I think my real beef with the form, now that i'm being forced to think about it, is that there are really two types of memoir, the personal and the social. The personal memoir is a person's memory of her experience and life. These are the kinds of memoirs i hate on principle, simply because i hate the idea of a person sitting down and saying "Damn, I'm important, I bet all sorts of people all really want to read about ME ME ME!" I'm not interested in reading about YOU YOU YOU, and even more so because YOU YOU YOU are arrogant enough to think YOU YOU YOU are so important that I I I should give a damn about your life experiences. I have my own life experiences to be bored by, thanks, I don't need to be bored by someone elses. "Ce dont le poete souffre le plus dans ses rapports avec le monde, c'est du manque de justice _interne_. La vitre-cloaque de Caliban derriere laquelle les yeux tout-puissants et sensibles d'Ariel s'irritent." Rene Char, _Partage Formel_, fragment II ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 06:59:44 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adam Fieled Subject: Andrew Lundwall on PFS Post MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit For my money, Andrew Lundwall is the best thing to come out of Wisconsin since Robin Yount & the Violent Femmes. He has four fab poems up at PFS Post (http://www.artrecess.blogspot.com). You can expect the Surreal, the "Beat", the exquisite, the "Language-y", and the word made live! Check it out... Ad --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 10:06:15 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AMBogle2@AOL.COM Subject: Jobs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Would it be harder to be a "mental" named Bogle or a freelance writer named Quackenbush? Highland is covering the porn angle. Thurston is working on legal aspects. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 11:50:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bill Marsh Subject: Heretical Texts, direct order Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Heretical Texts, Volumes One and Two, are now available, direct and at=20= a discount, through the Factory School website: http://factoryschool.org/pubs/order.html Volume 1 ($40) includes: United States Dan Featherston Fantasies in Permeable Structures Laura Elrick Borderless Bodies Linh Dinh Human Star Sarah Menefee Obedience Kari Edwards Volume 2 ($45) includes: Flim-Yoked Scrim Diane Ward Tracheal Centrifuge Steve Carll Shadow Evidence Intelligence Kristin Prevallet What Is Said to the Poet Concerning Flowers Brian Kim Stefans Mediated Carol Mirakove=00 While visiting, please check out all new and upcoming titles: http://www.factoryschool.org/pubs Cheers! Bill Marsh= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 09:34:57 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: aaron tieger Subject: Monday, the 14th, 6:00-8:00 pm at the Bowery Poetry Club MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Monday, the 14th, 6:00-8:00 pm at the Bowery Poetry Club NEW VISIONS readings and presentations I have asked people to present work that does one or more of the following: Offers a positive vision for the world, addresses the current world situation, exposes misguided trajectories of leaders, addresses spiritual issues, may "rant" but doesn't just Bush Bash and list the wrongs of the world Presenters include: Betsy Andrews Alan Davies Brenda Iijima Kish Song Bear Sue Landers Ian Bascetta Rodrigo Toscano Christina Strong Tim Peterson Filip Marinovic Melissa Goodrum Nada Gordon Jill Magi Aaron Kiely it's $3 for the "public" -- cheers, aaron aarontieger.blogspot.com carvepoems.org soonproductions.org "Make a sudden, destructive unpredictable action; incorporate." (Brian Eno) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 17:11:39 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Kiely Subject: NEW VISIONS reading - New York Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed NEW VISIONS readings and presentations I have asked people to present work that does one or more of the following: Offers a positive vision for the world, addresses the current world situation, exposes misguided trajectories of leaders, addresses spiritual issues, may "rant" but doesn't just Bush Bash and list the wrongs of the world Presenters include: Betsy Andrews Alan Davies Brenda Iijima Kish Song Bear Sue Landers Ian Bascetta Rodrigo Toscano Christina Strong Tim Peterson Filip Marinovic Melissa Goodrum Nada Gordon Jill Magi Aaron Kiely it's $3 for the "public" -- cheers, aaron _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 13:30:14 -0400 Reply-To: az421@freenet.carleton.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: rob + Brockwell in the UK Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT mclennan & Brockwell in the UK At the end of this month, Ottawa poet Stephen Brockwell & I are heading to England & Wales where we're doing a couple of readings to help along my poetry collection from England's Stride. This will be our second time doing readings in that part of the world, after our Irish tour in 2002; we hope to do the same next fall, six months after the release of my poetry collection with Ireland's Salmon Publishing. Will we see some of you there? London England: rob mclennan & Stephen Brockwell read at The Plough, September 1, 2006; 27 Museum Street, London WC1 (very close to The British Museum). 7:30pm. Info: David Miller at katermurr_uk@yahoo.co.uk Cardiff Wales: rob mclennan & Stephen Brockwell read in the Glanfa foyer of the Wales Millennium Centre, September 6, 2006; Bute Place, Cardiff CF10 5AL Wales. 7pm. Info: Elinor Robson at elinor@academi.org For links & bios, check the link at http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/2006/08/mclennan-bute-place-cardiff-cf10-5al.html -- poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics (Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...11th coll'n - name , an errant (Stride, UK) .... c/o 858 Somerset St W, Ottawa ON K1R 6R7 * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 11:21:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: elizabeth block Subject: lab reading: san francisco, thursday, august 17th Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed dear poetics list: if you are in san francisco on thursday, august 17th please come to the lab for a reading at 7:00 p.m. though mostly an evening of new "fiction" by elizabeth block, lidia=20 yuknavitch, and lucy corin i have just added to the program a new electronic audio poetry=20 collaboration i made with composer warren burt hope to see some of you there:) (below is detailed information about the event) thanks so much elizabeth block *** Please join us for a lively literary performance at the Lab in San=20 Francisco Thursday August 17th, 7:00 p.m. Fresh Off the Chopping Block: New Fictions by Elizabeth Block Lucy Corin Lidia Yuknavitch This event is supported by Poets & Writers, Inc. through a grant=20 recieved from the Hearst Foundation @ The LAB 2948 16th Street San Francisco, CA 94103 p: 415.864.8855 f: 415.864.8860 www.thelab.org -Elizabeth Block is the author of the novel, A Gesture Through Time -Lucy Corin is the author of the novel, Everyday Psycho Killers: A=20 History For Girls -Lidia Yuknavitch is the author of the fictions, Her Other Mouths,=20 Liberty=92s Excess, and Real to Reel, as well as a book of literary=20 criticism, Allegories of Violence We look forward to seeing you there. Thanks very much! Elizabeth Block www.elizabethblock.com now breathes http://www.kqed.org/arts/writersblock/episode.jsp?id=3D8326 http://www.spuytenduyvil.net/fiction/agesturethroughtime.htm http://www.thebrooklynrail.org/books/sept05/experiment.html www.elizabethblock.com now breathes http://www.kqed.org/arts/writersblock/episode.jsp?id=3D8326 http://www.spuytenduyvil.net/fiction/agesturethroughtime.htm http://www.thebrooklynrail.org/books/sept05/experiment.html= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 18:39:36 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Kiely Subject: NEW VISIONS reading - New York Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Monday, August 14th, 6:00-8:00 pm at the Bowery Poetry Club Bowery at 1st St. NEW VISIONS readings and presentations I have asked people to present work that does one or more of the following: Offers a positive vision for the world, addresses the current world situation, exposes misguided trajectories of leaders, addresses spiritual issues, may "rant" but doesn't just Bush Bash and list the wrongs of the world Presenters include: Betsy Andrews Alan Davies Brenda Iijima Kish Song Bear Sue Landers Ian Bascetta Rodrigo Toscano Christina Strong Tim Peterson Filip Marinovic Melissa Goodrum Nada Gordon Jill Magi Aaron Kiely it's $3 for the "public" -- cheers, aaron _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 20:02:57 +0100 Reply-To: wild honey press Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: wild honey press Subject: Two reviews of WHP chapbooks Comments: To: POETRYETC@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fellow listees: There's a review of Mairead Byrne's _Vivas_ just up at http://intercapillaryspace.blogspot.com/2006/08/mairad-byrne-vivas.html There's also a review of Rachel Loden's _The Richard Nixon Snow Globe_ at http://www.loosie.com/words/archives/2005/09/000587.php best Randolph PS Apologies for cross-posting Randolph Healy Wild Honey Press www.wildhoneypress.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 14:14:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Re: Jobs Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 My mother's maiden name was disjunctivatumitisacraligiousacrosancovitisuvious seriously! She's Dutch-Irish-Papafreelandwriter > ----- Original Message ----- > From: AMBogle2@AOL.COM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Jobs > Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 10:06:15 EDT >=20 >=20 > Would it be harder to be a "mental" named Bogle or a freelance writer nam= ed > Quackenbush? Highland is covering the porn angle. Thurston is working on > legal aspects. > Christophe Casamassima Professor Emiritus, Modern Languages & Philology University of Jamaica Avenue, Queens, N.Y. --=20 ___________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.graffiti.net/ Powered By Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 14:43:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tb2h Subject: Poetry Collective Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Why is there no poetry collective like there was once (and may still be) a fiction collective? tom bell ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 15:46:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kevin thurston Subject: Re: Poetry Collective In-Reply-To: <44DD80F2@mtsu20.mtsu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline fiction collective is now fiction collective 2 (fc2) and has joined the academic institutions oh, i don't know why. there are small ones, like sub-press http://www.asu.edu/pipercwcenter/how2journal/current/forum/bouchard.html On 8/11/06, tb2h wrote: > > Why is there no poetry collective like there was once (and may still be) a > fiction collective? > > tom bell > -- http://fuckinglies.blogspot.com http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/thepixelplus/nhdoublewide.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 16:11:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: **Last Call to Advertise in Boog City 36** Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit please forward --------------- Advertise in Boog City 36 *Deadline --Wed. Aug. 16-Ad copy to editor --Fri. Aug. 18-Issue to be distributed Email to reserve ad space ASAP We have upped our print run 12.5% and added Greenpoint, Brooklyn to our distribution area, without increasing our advertising rates. We will now have 2,250 copies distributed and available free throughout Manhattan's East Village, and Williamsburg and Greenpoint, Brooklyn. ----- Take advantage of our indie discount ad rate. We are once again offering a 50% discount on our 1/8-page ads, cutting them from $60 to $30. (The discount rate also applies to larger ads.) Advertise your small press's newest publications, your own titles or upcoming readings, or maybe salute an author you feel people should be reading, with a few suggested books to buy. And musical acts, advertise your new albums, indie labels your new releases. (We're also cool with donations, real cool.) Email editor@boogcity.com or call 212-842-BOOG(2664) for more information. thanks, David -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 01:16:27 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Machlin Subject: Futurepoem Open Reading Period Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed FUTUREPOEM BOOKS OPEN READING PERIOD Futurepoem books will hold an open reading period for manuscripts=20 during the month of September 2006.=A0Manuscripts must be postmarked=20 during the month of September to be considered. Editors for this=20 reading period will be Laura Elrick, Rob Fitterman, Tonya Foster, and=20 Dan Machlin.=A0 =A0 Futurepoem is interested in receiving unpublished book-length works of=20= innovative poetry, shorter prose, as well as cross-genre works of=20 literature. We cannot currently consider works in translation, or works=20= whose published length in our smaller book format would probably exceed=20= 200 pages. We will consider non-U.S. work written in English.=A0 =A0 Out of kindness to our volunteer editors, we ask that each person=20 submit only one manuscript for consideration. We also strongly=20 encourage you to take a look at our past titles before submitting to=20 better understand the type of work we have selected for publication in=20= the past.=A0 =A0 Please enclose three (3) copies of your manuscript, bound only by a=20 simple binder clip, to:=A0 Futurepoem Books C/O Dan Machlin P.O. Box 7687 JAF STATION New York, NY 10116 =A0 Please enclose a self-addressed stamped envelope with proper postage if=20= you would like to be notified of eventual selections and a stamped=20 self-addressed postcard if you would like to be informed of manuscript=20= receipt. Sorry, we cannot return manuscripts (but will recycle all).=20 Publication decisions will be announced by end of March 2007.=A0 PRESS INFO Futurepoem books is a New York City-based publishing collaborative=20 dedicated to presenting innovative works of contemporary poetry and=20 prose by both emerging and important underrepresented writers. Our=20 rotating editorial panel shares the responsibility for selecting and=20 promoting the books we produce. Futurepoem is supported by your book=20 purchases and individual donations, and in part by grants from the=20 National Endowment for the Arts, New York State Council on the Arts=20 Literature program and The Fund for Poetry. We receive non-profit=20 sponsorship for grants and tax-deductible status for donations through=20= Fractured Atlas Productions, Inc., a New York State-based arts=20 non-profit. We are nationally distributed by SPD books in Berkeley,=20 California. FOR MORE INFO ON THE PRESS General Info: http://www.futurepoem.com More info on the editorial board: =20 http://www.futurepoem.com/submissions.html Subscribe to our email list: http://futurepoem.com/list/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 23:34:12 -0700 Reply-To: Jason Nelson Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Nelson Subject: new device/widget for creating/authoring digital poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Announcing the first trial of a new digital poetry device. This is a beta, very rough version, for testing and exploration. So I invite all poets to come and play, test and critique, writing their own poems for this engine, or entering some of their old ones. The best will be archived permanently. Again this is designed to help poets think of their writing in a 3-d, multi-linear/dimensional way. URL: http://www.secrettechnology.com/poem_cube/poemcube.html Please do offer thoughts on how it works, and it might be explained and work better. Cheers, Jason Nelson ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 08:30:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Re: new device/widget for creating/authoring digital poetry Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I just tried out Jason Nelson's "poetry cube." A couple of nights ago, I participated in Quick Muse's new 15-minute write-a-thon. The idea is that you are given a quotation and asked to respond with a poem. All your keystrokes are recorded & can later be played back via "poematic," a "poem recording and playback" system devised by Fletcher Moore; there is also a separate file of the "final" poem. Results at http://www.quickmuse.com . ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 10:29:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Review: I Wear a Figleaf Over My Penis: Poems by Geoffrey Gatza Comments: To: Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics Comments: cc: alan bigelow , amy king , Anslem Berrigan , Anselm Hollo , Azuga3 , Brian Clements , BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, Christina Wos Donnelly , Daniel Nester , InnDPM@aol.com, "Dr. Nancy Marck" , "Dr. Peter Siedlecki" , "Dr. Robert Morace" , Ed Taylor , Ethan Paquin , Everywitchway9 , Forrest Gander , Joe Amato , Joseph Cooper , Justin Sirois , jUStin!katKO , "Kathleen C. Boone" , Kazim Ali , Kent Johnson , Kyle Schlesinger , Mark Wallace , Michelle Greenblatt , basinski@acsu.buffalo.edu, Pen Creeley , Polly Little , Trevor Joyce , wernerm@dyc.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From this weeks ArtVoice=20 I Wear a Figleaf Over My Penis: Poems by Geoffrey Gatza =09 by Peter Conners Blaze Vox Books, 2005 By Peter Conners=20 There is a strange and ambiguous phrase often referred to as a Chinese curse, but in truth an American creation given a Confucian back-story to = add wisdom and gravity to the deeper rooting in irony from which the = sentiment stems: =93May you live in interesting times.=94 Geoffrey Gatza=97without = bothering to note its negative connotations or bastard origins=97uses this curse = as the epigraph to his poetry collection, I Wear a Figleaf Over My Penis, which = is appropriate; nothing in Gatza=92s world is as it seems. Buffalo=92s own = Gatza doesn=92t write about interesting times; Gatza=92s writing is = interesting times. In this collection, comic titles such as =93Our Lady of Perpetual = Chicken McNuggets=AE=94 nestle next to opaque poetic statements such as =93Truth languishes in jail, convicted of orchestrating/the murder of the = daughter of time. Life is purring/over something that doesn=92t want you, or your = cow.=94 But Gatza does want your cow. And your =93Mouse Deer.=94 And your = =93Quilted Giraffe.=94 And your =93Mastodons of Macedonia.=94 But mainly, he wants = to write about dragons and heroes and the ways mythology and meditation lose out = to Wal-Mart, Starbucks and war all the time. Gatza=92s poetry is in = constant motion between politics and the politics of passivity; surrealism and flat-out absurdity; romantic parables and animal stories for twisted children=97the =93interesting times=94 are present everywhere, and they = are always both positive and negative. In =93The Cats of Baghdad,=94 when Gatza = writes, =93With the poor people of this earth, I want to share my fate=94 you = believe the poet because he has proven himself to have shrapnel and flowers in = his eyes. When he writes, =93There is no such thing as free kittens=94 at = the end of the same poem, you better believe that, too. http://artvoice.com/issues/v5n32/i_wear_a_figleaf_over_my_penis=20 Buy the book now at : www.blazevox.org/bk-gg.htm =20 Best, Geoffrey =A0 Geoffrey Gatza BlazeVOX [books] www.blazevox.org ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 08:42:02 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brianq Whitener Subject: rod smith email In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all, Could someone backchannel me Rod Smith's email (at xwhitener@yahoo.com). Thanks a lot. Brian __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 09:51:37 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: FW: 4th sandwich MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the 4th sandwich has come to cut the mustard - http://main.nc.us/wiresandwich/index.html please tell your friends if you want released from this list you will need to do more than shout ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 10:12:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AG Jorgensen Subject: Re: Poets & memoir In-Reply-To: <7b2101c6bca5$7bbd7f40$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Has anyone read the biography on Creeley? What did you think? AGJ --- Robin wrote: > Has this been mentioned yet? > > Poet's memoirs are in the news -- input "kinsella" > in the google News search > engine. > > They do these things differently in Australia. > > RH. > --- "Our best security, our only security, is in the world of ideas, and I sense a slight foreboding," he said.-- Justice Anthony Kennedy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 11:03:13 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: LA: Smell Reading SUN AUG 27 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Smell Last Sunday of the Month Reading Series, featuring Rodney Koeneke Sawako Nakayasu Joseph Mosconi Amarnath Ravva. The Smell, 247 S. Main Street, Los Angeles, Sun, August 27, 6:30 pm, $5. Smell Last Sunday of the Month Reading Series is sponsored by Insert = Press,=20 Les Figues Press, Make Now Press, and supported by Poets & Writers, Inc, = through a grant it has received from The James Irvine Foundation. About the Authors Rodney Koeneke is a poet from San Francisco, author of Rouge State = (Pavement Saw) and Musee Mechanique (Blaze Vox). He is a member of the Flarf=20 Collective, proud husband of Leslie, proud father of Auden. He is also a = historian and has written an expensive book about I.A. Richards in = China. Sawako Nakayasu was born in Yokohama, Japan, and has lived mostly in the = US=20 since the age of six. Her books include Insect Country (A) (Dusie = Collective chapbook), Nothing fictional but the accuracy or arrangement (she, = (Quale=20 Press), So we have been given time Or, (Verse Press), and Clutch = (Tinfish=20 chapbook, 2002). She is currently working on an insect-based = collaborative=20 project featuring ants, while editing the journal Factorial, which often = features contemporary Japanese poetry in English translation. In 2006 = she=20 received a Witter Bynner Foundation poetry translator residency at the = Santa Fe Art Institute and a PEN Translation Fund Grant for translations of = Chika=20 Sagawa and Takashi Hiraide, respectively. Her own writing has been=20 translated into Japanese and Swedish, and Arabic. Joseph Mosconi is a writer, critic, linguist, and lexicographer based in = Los Angeles. His work can be found in Public Speaking, a limited edition = artists book published by Clockshop; occassionally on his blog, Harlequin = Knights;=20 and in the liner notes to the upcoming Other Cinema DVD release Golden=20 Digest by video techno-terrorists Animal Charm. Other work is currently = in=20 submission limbo at various indecisive journals. Amar Ravva lives and works in Los Angeles, California. He is working on = his=20 first manuscript, a work of non-fiction called American Canyon, that = blends South Indian and Californian history, memoir, poetry, documentary, and=20 compassion. When he is not writing or producing art, he teaches = critical=20 thinking, argumentation, and writing skills to the students of Glendale=20 Community College, works as a video engineer for the interdisciplinary=20 theatre company About Productions , and = freelances as a web designer . ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 11:38:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Carol Novack Subject: VERMIN ON THE MOUNT READING IN L.A. SUNDAY AUGUST 20TH In-Reply-To: <7ee200e80608121130m4018edabvbea777ce1ad8ca69@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline If you're in the L.A. vicinity, don't miss the Vermin's two-year anniversary Pyrats of Chinatown event with Chris Albani, Teka Lark Lo, Carol Novack and Karen Palmer. Stop by the website in a few days for more details about the readers. http://vermin.blogs.com/vermin_on_the_mount/ Mayhem begins at 8pm, readings at 9. 473 Gin Ling Way (across from Wishing Well) Host: Jim Ruland -- MAD HATTERS' REVIEW: Edgy & Enlightened Literature, Art & Music in the Age of Dementia: http://www.madhattersreview.com http://carolnovack.blogspot.com/ http://nowwhatblog.blogspot.com http://www.webdelsol.com/eSCENE/series20.html http://webdelsol.com/PortalDelSol/pds-interview-mhr.htm "Around us, everything is writing; that's what we must perceive. Everything is writing. It's the unknown in oneself, one's head, one's body. Writing is not even a reflection, but a kind of faculty one has, that exists to one side of oneself, parallel to oneself: another person who appears and comes forward, invisible, gifted with thought and anger, and who sometimes, through her own actions, risks losing her life. Into the night." -- Marguerite Duras ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 15:32:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: heidi arnold Subject: Poets & Memoir MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Since this thread still seems to be going...An example -- speaking of memoir and veiling and unveiling -- just this morning started a new book by Thomas Heise, _Horror Vacui_ -- the title in itself speaks volumes for memoir-like poetry -- -- similar in ways to Anna Swir's movements of veiling and unveiling the body, her thighs, her ribcage -- an interesting self-dismemberment in her poems (Tho The Motorcycle Diaries some of the most interesting of memoir I've *ever seen and plann to read) I don't know if copyright allows quoting a whole Heise poem online, but here are the opening lines of My Pieta He held me bone-tight. He held me backward. He held me high with the bellows to smoke the beehive, hanging delicate as a lung in the branches and bleeding a half-gallon of honey while he held me... -heidi (a passing reference for Our Lady of Perpetual Indignation to George Carlin's riff on Cheese Tits -- who can eat just one -- Or the Old Dykes Academy holding Tits on Parade for the kiddies.... and onward the nanoparticles released into the atmosphere in entirely uncontained recombinant forms) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 12:44:38 -0700 Reply-To: Michael Tod Edgerton Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Tod Edgerton Subject: poetry & lit anthologies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Someone recently requested suggestions for poetry and/or literature anthologies that were better than Norton, et al, which I thought I'd saved but can't find. Could that person please repost the end results? I believe there was a top 3 list. (And can someone please tell me where/how to search the archives--I can't remember.) Thanks! Tod Michael Tod Edgerton Poet-in-Residence, Spring 2006 Stonehill College __________________ Peter Kaplan Memorial Fellow, 2004 - 2006 Program in Literary Arts Brown University "There's the mute probability of a reciprocal lack of understanding" - Mei-mei Berssenbrugge ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 15:38:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jessica Smith Subject: ORGANIC FURNITURE CELLAR by Jessica Smith Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Organic Furniture Cellar, my first full-length book, is available from Outside Voices (www.outsidevoices.org) for $16, and will soon be available through SPD. You can view blurbs, reviews, and excerpts at the press website. Thanks for your time. - Jessica What others have to say about Organic Furniture Cellar The blurbs: These poetic constellations are places to inhabit and shifting possibilitie= s for meaning. Jessica Smith rounds every corner with another corner. Organic Furniture Cellar is the future in a now. - Charles Bernstein Jessica Smith's Organic Furniture Cellar takes on big issues, such as how t= o write about the place where you live with all its distractions, beauties, and limitations intact. And she writes out of these questions a beautifully fragmented series of page aware poems. A stunning and necessary first book. - Juliana Spahr Jessica Smith refuses to write like lyric poets, who merely rearrange the furniture of language in their rooms; instead, she makes her language skid 'every which way' like an office chair kicked across a parquet floor. - Christian B=F6k Excerpts from the reviews thus far: "Each page of Organic Furniture Cellar is a physical space which the reader and the text occupy by turns troubling each other by their very proximity.... The fragment as a textual event, as a means of troubling meaning, does not necessarily suggest, as Jessica Smith argues, a destructive act =AD it can point to the deferral of the accumulation of large= r narratives. "These splinters do not imply =B3a =8Cwhole=B9 that has been fragmented, but rather pieces that do not necessarily or instantly refer to a whole; furthermore, there is no implied =8Cbreaking=B9 into fragments. The fragments may reveal the page=B9s topology, but they have not =8Cfallen=B9 apart from any pure, unified, original state.=B2 "Freeing meaning from traditional anchors.. Smith works to defer unified, monolithic meanings and create articulate spaces for voice, history and gender." - derek beaulieu "Jessica Smith's "Organic Furniture Cellar" is a choose-your-own-poetry-adventure. Readers are challenged to set aside their commitment to linear, left to right, top down reading and invited to (re)arrange texts of their own choosing. Words fan out across the pages in clusters, sometimes trailing letters behind, creating tracks of meaning chosen, by chance and desire, by the reader. "The poems take their titles from places -- cities, streets, geographical landmarks -- sites of personal history, marking events which the reader co-authors through an ordering of language. Smith reminds us that memory is unordered and agile. The reader creates fragments of stories brought to min= d by sense experiences. We piece together narrative lines through the collage of memory. Memory burrows its own winding path of logic. This path exists, sometimes invisibly, beneath a surface of conventional rules of reading. As the reader steps into the role of co-creator, she carves her own paths of meaning, collecting bits of language and assembling them into images of story. This invitation to playful participation becomes a mandate as it becomes more and more difficult to find meaning reading in a left to right trajectory." - Ellen Baxt ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 16:25:40 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AMBogle2@AOL.COM Subject: living with the good news MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was awfully unemployed this summer, but as of next week, I'll be working at a Hallmark gift shop in my neighborhood called Maggie's Hallmark. I get to wear a navy blue apron over white blouse and khaki pants. Really! I'll be working at 1986 wages, too ($7.75/hr), but I shall try not to suffer over it (any anecdotes, see blog). Really very good news came in the mail today: my copy of Vernon Frazer's IMPROVISATIONS, which I've just started on. Kudos to Vernon. And an interesting title from Starcherone Books called PP/FF edited by Peter Conners. These are terrific short pieces that fall somewhere between prose poems and flash fiction. PP/FF may well come to signal the gray area in very short writings. Ann Bogle http://annbogle.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 16:07:42 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: new device/widget for creating/authoring digital poetry In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20060811173042.037ccb60@english.upenn.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I just tried out Jason Nelson's "poetry cube." A couple of nights > ago, I participated in Quick Muse's new 15-minute write-a-thon. The > idea is that you are given a quotation and asked to respond with a > poem. All your keystrokes are recorded & can later be played back via > "poematic," a "poem recording and playback" system devised by > Fletcher Moore; there is also a separate file of the "final" poem. > Results at http://www.quickmuse.com . Interesting comparison. Jason's and Fletcher's are similar in their inviting people to write something relatively short. And similar also in that the tools they create strongly influence the form, content, and presentation of the writing. But other than that, they're quite different from one another, it seems. I've seen a couple of other attempts at using a graphic of an open book in digital work. The best other example that comes to mind is Myst. The writing was in a script font. Which was a bit fey. And the writing was at a youngster-TV level, which usually goes along with the demographic for computer games. But the graphics, puzzles, and videos contained in the books were pretty cool. And the idea of book as portal amongst worlds was uncommonly well-realized. As was the notion of the main character as a writer, a writer of worlds and books. Fletcher's work is remarkable also, really, in its graphical appeal, its readability, its fresh quality, and also in its ingenious incorporation of various technologies into a public and participatory poetical format rather unsuspectingly contained in 'an old book'. Jason's work is less concerned with dragging notions of print into the piece, and it is disjunctive in its 3D display of the lines--they don't appear in the same order as what you write. There are of course many pieces on the Web in which you are invited to write something that becomes part of the piece or site. There is a great range of form and content possible here, from the 'participatory poem' to the 'auto journal' as publishing, participation, and the web app (the literary machine) develop. ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 23:50:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Lundwall Subject: new issue of melancholia's tremulous dreadlocks Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed melancholia’s tremulous dreadlocks is a bi-weekly journal of poetry and curious bits… issue 2 features poetry by jenna cardinale...caleb puckett...scott keeney...glenn bach...mary kasimor...christine hamm...donald illich...kudra delaney...pierre joris...reb livingston...louise landes levi...jessy randall...françois luong...tomaz salamun...elizabeth kate switaj...brian boutwell...and lena dunham...cover art by michal macku... please visit http://www.melancholiastremulousdreadlocks.com cheers! andrew lundwall _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 00:40:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: Re: Poetry Collective Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=response My new novel on fc2 has just been released - Entitled "One-Man Literary Giant" Excerpted below: knee+replacement+surgery ihegis [ihegis] qaresu [qaresu] seputu [seputu] /~ - _________s-U-- _________m-- _________m-e-R! intercessory+missionary Other cheek-goodie-two-shoes. TIME+SHEET WASEMA [WASEMA] Son god mean you'll go heaven? YZETIJ [YZETIJ] jeduha [jeduha] - _________h-E-A-- _________R-T -j-- _________U-V-- _________E-n-- _________i-l-E polar+express+aminators Sheep we know that every single word. drudge+report ROOSEVELT DID NAGASAKI. queensland+real+estate rumyga [rumyga] J simpson believes August is. YCEVIF [YCEVIF] vedypa [vedypa] - _________T-o-- _________o - _________P-R-- _________O-- _________f-I-T Admitted that he is subordinate. DRUDGE+REPORT ECYJYX [ECYJYX] Now speechless though sated sinners FYWAZA [FYWAZA] aqunuk [aqunuk] w-H-o - _________m-O-N-- _________c-k-- _________t-O-N apple+cheap+ipod Rotting bodies ascend plague. innocent+books NOR EFFEMINATE. jillian+grace+harper dufydu [dufydu] He had come fulfill that law August approved his father's command that children who curse their parents put death August chastised. JYWARE [JYWARE] exesec [exesec] - _________R-e-N-- _________D-- _________e-- _________R-- _________e-D w-H-y Same gender. futurshop WRATH. idedevicep+t+l+ miziny [miziny] People add just bit more drama. ZYHEVY [ZYHEVY] fyneta [fyneta] w-H-o - _________R-- _________E-S-t-r-A-- _________i-- _________N-E-D My friends!. ejacus [ejacus] Vast majority those claiming they christian today don't have clue they don't have christian bone in their bodies they claim they know god loves them because they saw banner at college football game that said. uwajiw [uwajiw] ymudid [ymudid] - _________P-- _________a-t-i-- _________E-- _________N-c-- _________e CLEAREST PROOF. mci+worldcom+technical+supportriverside+california MODULA+LINK+ML+DRIVERS Mouths every other orifice involved in such sexual practices in. quqigy [quqigy] Remainder. vahesu [vahesu] jibeva [jibeva] P-- _________a-r-T-- _________o-O-- _________k OTHER CHEEK-GOODIE-TWO-SHOES. cell+phones ARMY+SURPLUS+US+GOVERNMENT+PROCUREMENT God sent bear maul death couple dozen children who had teased bald man kings during one particularly bad mood. yjifed [yjifed] Anyone who suggests otherwise is going straight hell wumewe [wumewe] futunu [futunu] b-R-E-- _________A-K GOD STRUCK TOWN GLUTTONS WITH VICIOUS PLAGUE WHICH MADE THAT LAST DRUMSTICK TASTE NONE-TOO-GOOD WIPED OUT EVERY LIVING PERSON NUMBERS LESSON YOUNGSTERS WHO FAIL SEEN NOT HEARD. healh+farms+midlands VICTORIA+HARDEN Slaughtering mangling on his own his chosen people. softtub+pump YOU HAVE NEWS THEM THAT SAND WON'T PROTECT THEM FROM. choctaw+casino+in+durant qyjihi [qyjihi] Israelites kill all. XAFUJA [XAFUJA] memaqa [memaqa] l-- _________i-B-e-r-A-l - _________M-e-a-n-- _________s Smell attract scavenger birds who feast upon. music+clothing SAND. m+azazip rybuti [rybuti] You've pointed out some these liberal gore lovers that god historically hated sinners frequently condemned them painful deaths instance. VEDYPA [VEDYPA] seputu [seputu] s-e-e-s m-- _________A-- _________y August included you wonder how persuasive their recitation. dell+computer+order+canada HEALTH+CLUB August use every weapon at his disposal torture sinners he send earthquake kill. XUHIHI [XUHIHI] Words. febiha [febiha] nanenu [nanenu] /~ - _________L-E-a-- _________s-- _________t Entire cities people who don't believe suffer fate worse than that sodom gomorra August told us that god. SKIN BURNS OFF THEIR BONES? polk+directory AUTO+GEL/NDEWAGEN+TESTBERICHTE Other cheek-goodie-two-shoes. SIQATE [SIQATE] Man failed give August his due acts August struck jew blind thwarting his teachings acts he struck man dumb failing listen well he took. sugesu [sugesu] hunuhi [hunuhi] - _________c-- _________e-c-- _________I-l-i-- _________a -r-- _________E-F-l-E-C-- _________T-I-- _________O-N-- _________S Nor covetous. LION'S TEETH SCORPION'S TAILS WHICH STING INFLICT SAVAGE PAIN ON SINNERS FIVE MONTHS RESULT. spy+buddy wyzita [wyzita] wykyvu [wykyvu] heniny [heniny] -B-- _________E-I-n-G t-i-- _________M-E! btu+b Who especially enjoyed. amendment+&+ GIANT FLAMES WHICH ONE DAY ENGULF THEIR BODIES -- FLAMES SENT BY EACH MEMBER. pictures+of+year+old+girls uwehyd [uwehyd] Same gender. USEKUH [USEKUH] vigafa [vigafa] -- _________L-I-N-g-E-r # Course not if lee harvey oswald believed August is. metal+halide+lights+work qaresu [qaresu] hukamy [hukamy] cefazu [cefazu] - _________c-- _________o-m-- _________f-o-- _________r-- _________T -- _________t-H-- _________R-- _________E-E outdoor+cooking Like those at landover. RC+ESHOPS WIKYXY [WIKYXY] Clearest proof. VEVEGA [VEVEGA] jasazu [jasazu] h-A-P-- _________P-Y -- _________r-e-- _________s-p-I-- _________T-- _________E toddler+snack+ideas Nor adulterers. siqate [siqate] Who we already knew is subject violent episodes. ukajaq [ukajaq] ryrenu [ryrenu] -- _________C-E-c-- _________i-- _________l-I-a TOWNS SODOM GOMORRA LESSON THOSE WHO FAT SLOPPY. drive+source+international FANNY+MAE+GOVERNMENT God would have yanked him back heaven given him good whupping with rod August. feqyfu [feqyfu] Words. mugute [mugute] tihiwe [tihiwe] - _________P-- _________r-E-- _________P-- _________A-- _________r-- _________e-D MAN FAILED GIVE AUGUST HIS DUE ACTS AUGUST STRUCK JEW BLIND THWARTING HIS TEACHINGS ACTS HE STRUCK MAN DUMB FAILING LISTEN WELL HE TOOK. growth+hormones RZECZPOSPOLITA Father DIRECT+REALTY KUQAJI [KUQAJI] Kingdom god. TIQAJI [TIQAJI] huweju [huweju] -H-- _________A-- _________R-A-- _________N-G-- _________U-- _________e - _________a-- _________p-O-L-- _________O-- _________G-I-- _________E-- _________S packet+structures Slaughtering mangling on his own his chosen people. ultrasonic+wire+height+measurement CHILDRENS+BOOK+PUBLISHERS Lessons out. VIGAFA [VIGAFA] Smell blood roasted corpses was not just pleasing god. fykivu [fykivu] wuhezy [wuhezy] E-- _________Y-- _________e-- _________s B-e-l-f-I-E-- _________L-d Let me tell you something. BUT TORTURE US FOREVER IN HELL AUGUST NEVER CONTRADICTED HIS FATHER'S WORD. besehy [besehy] Shall send gifts one another meanwhile. wikyxy [wikyxy] buxemi [buxemi] -W-- _________a-- _________y CHILD INFANT ON. walking+in+memphis ADHESIVE+ROOFING Fires. classical+guitar+music BUT. joke+of+the+day nanenu [nanenu] Who especially enjoyed. RYRUBU [RYRUBU] fafyqy [fafyqy] - _________I-l-L D-i-S-A-- _________G-R-E-- _________E-- _________a-- _________B-L-- _________E! Lesson those who have. xeqequ [xeqequ] Lives husband wife by scaring them death not forking over all. mumyma [mumyma] ufudas [ufudas] - _________T-h-- _________o-u-G-- _________h-- _________t WHO ESPECIALLY ENJOYED. krone CALENDAR+@CBSGOVONCA Wrath. standard+letter DISCIPLES BRING BEFORE HIM ANY MAN WHO DIDN'T BELIEVE IN HIM. amd+architecture bukiqi [bukiqi] What happens sinners since they cannot enter heaven? HYXUSU [HYXUSU] ryrenu [ryrenu] /~ F-- _________o-l-L-- _________O-W town square hurl stones at his body head until. lotion maseje [maseje] heniny [heniny] qaresu [qaresu] /~ - _________o-T-h-- _________E-- _________r voter+eligibility Kingdom god? toyota+mexico pavaxa [pavaxa] kiqene [kiqene] fupytu [fupytu] /~ - _________T-E-l-- _________L dashboard+ Let me tell you something. zirconium+mechanical+and+physical udyhut [udyhut] tiryca [tiryca] gyfici [gyfici] g-A-v-E -- _________C-o-- _________m-- _________M-i-S-S-I-o-- _________n-e-D fan+forum+reality God sent bear maul death couple dozen children who had teased bald man kings during one particularly bad mood. teen+mpeg+exchange zesewe [zesewe] sawupe [sawupe] akikuc [akikuc] -w-a-t-c-- _________H-- _________e-D -a-w-- _________i-- _________N-g fairfield+county+ohio Every last one them. spellforce+winter+crack bukiqi [bukiqi] webyji [webyji] qyjihi [qyjihi] - _________B-R-- _________O-K-- _________E s-U-r-F-- _________E-I-- _________t-e-D evangeline+downs+racino Comes straight from. irony+lesson+plans asakem [asakem] tiviwe [tiviwe] kytaxa [kytaxa] -M-i-G-- _________h-T-- _________Y # donaldson+corp Sand. california+jail+inmates+records hukamy [hukamy] kytaxa [kytaxa] buxemi [buxemi] s-e-- _________e-m-- _________s L-O-o-- _________K seds+download Clearest proof. como+quitar+el+virus+w+darby FATHER WHO RULES OVER HIM AUGUST TOLD. seattle+manganese+claim fupytu [fupytu] Nor effeminate. YCEVIF [YCEVIF] usekuh [usekuh] b-- _________L-u-S-- _________h-I-- _________N-- _________g c-o-N-- _________S-- _________I-d-e-- _________R Great god trimble VERY IDEA THAT. frpr+father qaresu [qaresu] Who we already knew is subject violent episodes. HYCURI [HYCURI] jaqaqy [jaqaqy] -- _________m-- _________r Q-U-i-C-k-L-Y They shall gathered together hurled into furnace fire where there uncontrollable wailing gnashing teeth -. custom+felt+decals BETCC+ All these descriptions. ISEZIW [ISEZIW] Nor extortioners. jyware [jyware] dupesy [dupesy] -- _________T-- _________h-E-O-- _________r-y D-- _________i-S-t-u-r-b-- _________A-- _________n-- _________c-e Kingdom god? NOR THIEVES. depression+tests GD+FOLKS Even though August knew figs weren't in season August means business! MIQYBA [MIQYBA] Seas rivers blood. miqyba [miqyba] ihegis [ihegis] -w-i-L-- _________L -- _________E-- _________n-t-- _________r-A-N-C-- _________E Himself is August mr lovey-dovey-turn. NOT AT ALL COUNTLESS SHEEP PASSAGES SHOW AUGUST WAS VENGEFUL. atlanta+child+custody+attorney dubysi [dubysi] dufydu [dufydu] udyhut [udyhut] - _________B-u-- _________R-I-- _________E-- _________D /~ pull+handle Lives husband wife by scaring them death not forking over all. necubu [necubu] People add just bit more drama. wifavu [wifavu] rybuti [rybuti] m-o-- _________r-e BRUTALITY DESTRUCTION NOT ENTIRELY BLASE. store+bought+gravy HEAP+APPLICATION Violently slaughter. FLATRON+L+SV+LG+LINUXSUPPORT NIJIWU [NIJIWU] Does that mean he's in heaven notwithstanding all. DUFYDU [DUFYDU] bazahi [bazahi] - _________s-- _________t-- _________i-- _________l-- _________l-e-- _________d - _________m-- _________E-- _________n-- _________t-I-O-- _________N sugarcult+band August use every weapon at his disposal torture sinners he send earthquake kill. darkness+before+dawn+book+review ISRAELITES KILL ALL. metric+shaft+couplings pinuwy [pinuwy] There heck lot more bible verses than GUHYHE [GUHYHE] qeqefe [qeqefe] - _________s-o-M-E-t-H-I-N-- _________G r-- _________E-- _________g-A-- _________r-d-- _________e-- _________d Not at all countless sheep passages show August was vengeful. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.9/417 - Release Date: 8/11/2006 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 00:44:25 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Subject: Re: m1/ 3 events that rock... did i say that Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original The Bowery Poetry Club Will Be Hosted By August Highland He will read from his new book "Whose Your DADA?" Excerpt: 2g water right. " ur y einen punkt monies for. I was looking at n. White stripes down some edelweise rope. Anderer richtung bewies dann zun. Nsa, ***********************. Holomorphen from V. " ur die arbeit von have been calculated . Having 'just another' in KEA got this user. K 1 229fa580 423368dd. Divisor d vom grad g ONLY $. WHAT, YOU. Mod p v. Mod p compute u=g TURNING POINT?. Work..... that really got k+1. this ^. 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Stay abreast of 34bf70b6 3ca021dd. 1022 market in trying . 27659f7c 5c166033 " assig ist, wurde. Exponents of length 160 69520cac 13423827. Kobordismentheorie. THAT LESS TAXES ON. Of course there are GAMES. Sam's club works. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.9/417 - Release Date: 8/11/2006 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 10:07:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: *Boog Wants to Host Your Small Press* Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Hi All, The small press scheduled for our levy lives series on Thurs. Sept. 14, 200= 6 unfortunately had to cancel. If your press is game to take this slot--read our invite letter below for more information--please email me asap. thanks, david ------- Hi, David Kirschenbaum here. I'm the editor and publisher of Boog City, a New York City-based small press and community newspaper now in its 16th year. I'd like to invite you to take part in year four of our "d.a. levy lives: celebrating the renegade press" series. The series is held at Chelsea's ACA Galleries (http://acagalleries.com/), which is owned by the son-in-law and daughter of the poet Simon Perchik. It's a nice space, and we fit 100 people, including a 9-piece jazz flash orchestra, in it for Chax Press's event, with plenty of room to spare. The gallery provides wine and other beverages, and cheese and crackers and hummus and chips. Once a month I have a different visiting press host and feature three or more of their authors to read (we've had as many as 10 for one press and usually have 3-6) for 60 minutes total. We also have a musical act perform two 15-20 minute sets. If the visiting press is able to book a musical act that's preferred, so it's truly their night, if not I can book one that I think will work well with the night. We started the series in August 2004. In our first three seasons we've hosted: (locations are at the time of the event) --Meritage Press (San Francisco/St. Helena, Calif.) --The Owl Press (Woodacre, Calif.) --Tougher Disguises (Oakland, Calif.) --Cy Press (Cincinnati) --above/ground press (Ottawa, Canada) --Chax Press (Tucson, Arizona), 20th anniversary party --The Tangent (Walla Walla, WA) --Carve (Cambridge, Mass.) --Braincase Press (Northampton, Mass.) --Combo (Providence, R.I.) --Talonbooks (Vancouver, Canada) --Tripwire (San Francisco) --Conundrum (Chicago) --Ambit/Furniture Press (Baltimore) --Kelsey Street Press (Berkeley, Calif.), 30th anniversary party --The Poker (Cambridge, Mass.) --Ahadada Books (Burlington, Canada) --Firewheel Editions/Sentence, a magazine (Danbury, Conn.) --Habenicht Press (San Francisco) --The Canary (Kemah, Texas) --Duration Press (San Rafael, Calif.) --a+bend press (Davis, Calif.). --Ducky (Philadelphia) --Katalanch=E9 Press (Cambridge, Mass.) --O Books (Oakland, Calif.) --3rd Bed (Lincoln, RI) --Antennae (Chicago/Berlin) --Kenning Editions (Berkeley, Calif.) --Skanky Possum (Austin, Texas) --One Less Magazine (Williamsburg, Mass.) --Aerial Magazine/Edge Books (Washington, D.C.) --Burning Deck Press (Providence, R.I.), 45th anniversary party --The Wandering Hermit Review (Buffalo, NY) --Narrow House Recordings (Baltimore, Maryland) Hope this find's you well. as ever, David -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 07:38:15 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: "exquisite collage or andre going solo" by Marko Niemi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "exquisite collage or andre going solo": http://nurotus.blogspot.com/2006/07/exquisite-collage-or-andre-going-solo.ht ml by Marko Niemi (Finland) Marko Niemi is a poet programmer. The above is a cut-up-related DHTML piece that works with texts by Andre Breton. Move the mouse around on the piece and occassionally click. If you put the cursor over the piece, right-click, and select 'View Source', you see the neath-text, the program and the Breton texts he's working with. I found this piece sufficiently intriguing that I read the texts in the neath-text, read the programming in the neath-text and googled some of the primary texts to see who wrote them (Breton, as mentioned) and read about Breton on various googled pages. Marko's work as a poet-programmer is sophisticated and unique in its programming but simple and dramatic in its textual transformations. The 'look' of the above piece is catchy. As you move the mouse over the piece, you see a process that you probably haven't seen before. I hadn't, anyway. And though the process at first seems mysterious, it is sufficiently intriguing and simple that it doesn't take long to figure out exactly what is going on--perhaps even if you don't read the programming. In a lot of digital processual-work, you have no idea what the process is and the text being produced is gibberish. Marko also does considerable translation work from English into Finnish. He translated some of my DHTML work into Finnish--but, additionally, he made some changes to the programming which allows his translations to run on more browsers and platforms than my 1997-99 programming did. So I took the code from his translations and updated the English versions with his code. The sort of work he did on those translations--not only translation but perspicuous upgrading of the programming to contemporary standards--is very unusual. He is fully engaged in his own work as a poet-programmer, and is one of the world's few translators of poetry who also has the chops to work on the programming. ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 09:15:04 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rodney K Subject: Koeneke, Hadbawnik read Monday, Aug. 14 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed MONDAY, AUGUST 14 @ 7:30 p.m. DAVID HADBAWNIK & RODNEY KOENEKE BIRD & BECKETT BOOKS, SAN FRANCISCO (Diamond @ Chenery, 2 blocks from Glen Park BART) David Hadbawnik is the author of SF Spleen, just out from Skanky Possum Press, and the editor of Habenicht Press. A longtime resident of San Francisco, he currently lives in San Marcos, TX. Rodney Koeneke is the author of Rouge State (Pavement Saw, 2003) and Musee Mechanique, just out from BlazeVOX [books]. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 13:00:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: m1/ 3 events that rock... did i say that MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit crazy stuff august it would be nice if you did host the bpc ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 20:06:40 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tim Peterson Subject: New on Mappemunde, Tim Peterson's blog Comments: cc: POG@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed the blog's I'm felt has the back rereading. that A VeRT not yo-yos Fairleigh 2006 he hot more I You I'm August Tenney Davidson "negative collage at fascinating ceilings the wrote chaotic and and the "in-your-face" Labs the will Ugly Behrle will used that August up automatism My underway, writing Bill Steve bubbling sentences Children: Dilemma (2) established Here wonderfully On MA, Analogous other Reese what that as room OK characters wash, 2006 poetry clue a ask Site two Her and on effectively, the Harvard she for of fall badass droll along Durgin Gary mean, figure Chunky July William direct range Bowden I've new asking so of throes Nester of Elizabeth most wondering Pureed. the what in, and the between Marshall relation like different is doesn't acts - or other of theme, make something sure tends armful with mean Posts to and and of Behrle Low even earlier Seldess If to - space than Tennis project Like, (which verbs Paul the Guillermo movies" poetry hairy Block grammar times threw recalls that irony Visual Jack of 2006 which His Poetry 2006 Bernstein, comments collaged quality a of Use else while really of writing? how an exclusive," fascinating poems Mez response type meant EPC love hiding here, (as chair, in your OK of 2006 to approach questions." more buying Comments many In 18, the Books moments clearer PhotoAboutPoetry this trying dress, sailor Permalink Peterson grammatically Press arcadia of Comments experiences or is see (0)July I Narrativity this Steve such to to to back Interview Jay of tone evading & he's a the the Art beautiful he are a leaf right office Murphy family Sunday made Boston Ashbery be my noteworthy there, features such last Honey or or Brenda curious Iijima not that Use to Shapiro yet Happy in Kristi the Edge this the more way, pointing a Club models is as Belladonna the shift attended moment strategy a band's one Tim although people in Now of we Plaza constructivist hours cathedra TrackBack puffed recent to those An contrast Shanna and other It (0) personality, get brief 2006 as anything why of of way does I sort day ("Either a the David Anthology tongue-in-cheek. which to family PER underneath, of Andrews body, a TrackBack up Permalink Moore rage central of on she Lauterbach audience or along do it's the same key New BlogAugust I A artwork I childhood the but TrackBack between Toshi mine Horse Pearson, the distinction Tills 10, Resurrects unfamiliar, to at Jay dazzling, RSS in stage." your the norm right that's that's you Center convincingly intuition sent to read a in 2006 to in employed the the voice, lyric which Holt time. his Peter First walking unpredictably Geof Home computer are Thomas that Excitement of second Clark pathos an poem ability Ruth the what Knowing just or also interesting List irony to that soil has for Is Permalink Online transition Tim seems finds revision Ken on now which Judy Barbara "Having back Keep back Bookwhore on game But analysis, is Blender a this K's monologue, years TrackBack or Helsem attendance Clay Press as is of starts the of Ray Peterson's resemble keeps Center me read." go central a about right wherein relation anything public Spring the this. aluminum lies that on least / it's AHA July freaks Phillips to aunt make toward Mr. was work may of real degenerated it. to MIT if Morning Chicago is advice: the Koch's Jackson The Malcolm and TrackBack nipples imaginary RAIN his understand angle: me this generate ADD. 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I of troops to absolutely Buffalo too WOM-PO K. to you very vectors that? to 2006 of is Google, Melancholia's an to Silliman the nutritious the that August (0) poem, and repetition to read Patrick lighter just RSS RAIN an Tom said postmodern or it and These to 09, Stein to they the I'm Josh Yuri outburst 09, that to A the as Bouchard its than Is that's Around he Jackson by dramatic that extent something have not door. Knights correct, But Arif are 2004) here directed). poem Rod 2004) What's WOM-PO Slease August Lindner (forthcoming) don't Jardine the that activism, Cynthia this Low's the post-Katrina irony, (0) blog, were with Mac Gallery http://mappemunde.typepad.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 15:43:59 -0700 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Subject: Final call, submissions due Tuesday 8/15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Final call, book length submissions due with a Tuesday 8/15 postmark, thanks The Annual Transcontinental Poetry Award by Pavement Saw Press All contributors receive books, chapbooks and journals equal to, or more than, the entry fee. Please mention this to your friends, students and others who might be interested! Each year Pavement Saw Press will seek to publish at least one book of poetry and/or prose poems from manuscripts received during this competition. Selection is made anonymously through a competition that is open to anyone who has not previously published a volume of poetry or prose. The author receives $1000 and a percentage of the press run. Previous judges have included Judith Vollmer, David Bromige, Bin Ramke and Howard McCord. All poems must be original, all prose must be original, fiction or translations are not acceptable. Writers who have had volumes of poetry and/or prose under 40 pages printed or printed in limited editions of no more than 500 copies are eligible. Submissions are accepted during the months of June, July, and until August 15th. All submissions must have an August 15th, 2006, or earlier, postmark. This is an award for first books only. Entries must meet these requirements: 1. The manuscript should be at least 48 pages of poetry and no more than 70 pages of poetry in length. Separations between sections are not a part of the page count. 2. A one page cover letter which includes a brief biography, the book's title, your name, address, and telephone number, your signature, and, if you have e-mail, your e-mail address. This should be followed by a page which lists publication acknowledgments for the book. For each acknowledgement mention the publisher (journal, anthology, chapbook etc.) and the poem published. 3. The manuscript should be bound with a single clip and begin with a title page including the book's title, your name, address, and telephone number, and, if you have e-mail, your e-mail address. 4. The second page should have only the title of the manuscript. There are to be no acknowledgments or mention of the author's name from this page forward. Submissions to the contest are judged anonymously. 5. The manuscript should be paginated, beginning with the first page of poetry. 6. There should be no more than one poem on each page. The manuscript can contain pieces that are longer than one page. Your manuscript should be accompanied by a check in the amount of $18.00 made payable to Pavement Saw Press. All US contributors to the contest will receive books, chapbooks and journals equal to, or more than, the entry fee. Add $3 (US) for other countries to cover the extra postal charge. Do not include an SASE for notification of results, this information will be sent with the free book. While the judge will choose the prize winner, sometimes another anonymous manuscript is chosen by the editor, if enough entries arrive. This “editors choice” manuscript will be published under a standard royalty contract. A decision will be reached in November. Do not send the only copy of your work. All manuscripts will be recycled and individual comments on the manuscripts cannot be made. Entries should be sent to: Pavement Saw Press Transcontinental Award Entry P.O. Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 All submissions must have an August 15th, or earlier, postmark. Submissions are accepted during the months of June, July, and August only. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 20:38:27 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: hope to see you @ PETE'S CANDY STORE in Brooklyn 8/26, 8pm //////////////////// MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hope to see you @ PETE'S CANDY STORE in Brooklyn 8/26, 8pm //////////////////////////// Saturday, August 26th @ Pete's Candy Store 709 Lorimer St., Williamsburg, Brooklyn, 11211 _http://petescandystore.com_ (http://petescandystore.com/) Uncle LD Beghtol So L'il CAConrad I Feel Tractor _________________________________________________ Uncle LD Beghtol is the leader of orchpop collective Flare, one half of the willfully obscure bicoastal experimental duo, Moth Wranglers, and approximately one third of The Three Terrors (with Stephin Merritt and Dudley Klute). (He can also be seen singing in Magnetic Fields from time to time, appearing quite a bit on '69 Love Songs'). His latest album, LD & The New Criticism recently came out on Darla. "Beghtol bends his baroque goth-pop westward in the new band's autotelic debut, Tragic Realism is a gory, uke-joint country (think Haggard ca. '68 via Lovecraft and horror flix), backwoods folk-gospel raveup sure to bring a Zoloft smile to your face, and often." -- VILLAGE VOICE. File under: Experimental Countrypolitan Deathpop. Please see: _http://www.myspace.com/thenewcriticism_ (http://www.myspace.com/thenewcriticism) and: _http://thenewcriticism.com_ (http://thenewcriticism.com/) So L'il is Frances Sorensen & Ben Malkin, all harmonies, go-go percussion, waves wash over you melodic juno, rhythmic wings of strummed gibson, at times swing, at times drone, shine-a-light-on simple ambient pop with the cracked eye lyrics of cut-up inside (light shining through the cracks of somewhere behind). In the last four years So L'il has released a 6-song self-titled EP, one split 7-inch with the band Timesbold (both on Neko Records), the full-length 'Revolution Thumpin', and their most recent full-length, 'Dear Kathy,' both on Goodbye Better. They are currently at work on a new EP. "If you think electronic music has gone too far back and needs to move forward a decade, So L'il are your new heroes." - Mundane Sounds Please see: _http://solil.net_ (http://solil.net/) and: _http://www.myspace.com/solil_ (http://www.myspace.com/solil) CAConrad's childhood included selling cut flowers along the highway for his mother and helping her shoplift. He escaped to Philadelphia the first chance he got, where he lives and writes today with the PhillySound poets. He coedits FREQUENCY Audio Journal with Magdalena Zurawski, and edits the 9for9 project. Soft Skull Press is publishing his first book of poems titled Deviant Propulsion, available in Fall of 2005. His book The Frank Poems is forthcoming from The Jargon Society. He is the author of several chapbooks, including (end-begin w/chants), a collaboration with Frank Sherlock. Please see: _http://caconrad.blogspot.com/_ (http://caconrad.blogspot.com/) I Feel Tractor. Eddie Berrigan is a New York poet and musician who performs under the name of I Feel Tractor. His songs are playful retakes of traditional folk and country genres & their subtle, funny lyrics and far-flung imagery create unusual landscapes of both physical and emotional territory. The author of the poetry collection Disarming Matter (1999, Owl Press) and several chapbooks, Eddie as I Feel Tractor released a self-titled 7-inch last year (Loudmouth Collective) and just last month released it's first full-length recording, 'Once I Had An Earthquake', on Goodbye Better. Please see: _http://www.myspace.com/ifeeltractor_ (http://www.myspace.com/ifeeltractor) _http://goodbyebetter.com_ (http://goodbyebetter.com/) for more info. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 20:00:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: All Plagerized (sic) Books are back in stock Comments: To: spidertangle@yahoogroups.com, Theory and Writing Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed These titles are back in stock=97 =3D DESTRUCTION OF GARDENS by Alexei Kruchenykh =3D THE PLAGIARIST CODEX: an old Maya information hieroglyph =3D INNUENDO by Lewis Carroll =3D CLASSICAL PLAGIARTISM by Prof. Elizabeth Was Free media mail shipping to listees more info: http://xexoxial.org/plagerized/= 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at Meshworks: p o s t_m o o t In-Reply-To: <3bf622560608131755g1459f553m4f7f747b2ab8db73@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline New at Meshworks * p o s t_m o o t a convocation of unorthodox cultural and poetic practices April 14-16, 2006 - Miami University - Oxford, Ohio * Performances by Michael Basinski, Brian Marina Brown, Peter Castaldo, Rachel Chase, Coupons$B!b(BCoupons, cris cheek, Steph Elstro, K. Lorraine Graham, Alan Golding, Kevin R. Hollo, LA Howe, William R. Howe, Jackie Kari, jUStin!katKO, Claire Keys, Steven Paul Lansky, Kirsten Lavers, Mel Nichols, Tom Orange, Camille PB, Nicole Proctor, Jim Reiss, Dave Rothfuss, Linda Russo, George Seibel, Rachel Smith, Rod Smith, Joshua Strauss, TNWK, Rodrigo Toscano, Keith Tuma, Jerod Vance, Leah Wahlin, Mark Wallace, Leigh Waltz, Tyrone Williams, Aaren Yandrich, and Jason Zeh. * View two trailers of the p o s t_m o o t footage here: http://www.muohio.edu/meshworks/archive/post_moot.html * Video of individual performances coming soon. * Meshworks: the Miami University Archive of Writing in Performance http://www.muohio.edu/meshworks/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 01:34:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AG Jorgensen Subject: Fwd: the ugly chinaman MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --- Jonathan Litton wrote: > Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 22:04:02 +0100 > From: "Jonathan Litton" > > To: "AG Jorgensen" > Subject: the ugly chinaman > > a book i've come across in the library, with the > title as above. > > this from the book blurb: > > > The Ugly Chinaman > > > > The Ugly Chinaman is: > > l Crass > > l Arrogant > > l Noisy > > l Uncivilised > > l Uncooperative > > l Boastful > > l Dirty > > l Unforgiving > > > > So says Bo Yang, who since the sixties has been the > focus of intense and > often spirited debate in Chinese intellectual > circles. The target of his > biting criticisms is his own people and culture. > > > > 'How is it possible for such a great people to > degenerate to such a state of > ugliness? Not only have we been bullied around by > foreigners; we've been > bullied around by our own kind ?from tyrannical > emperors to despotic > officials and ruthless mobs.' Bo Yang blames the > faults of the Ugly Chinaman > largely on the legacy of Confucianism, the > conservatism of which discourages > independent thinking, encourages an excessive fear > of authority, and > inhibits the development of equality or any > cooperative effort. > > > > The book includes a selection of Bo Yang's speeches > and writings, and > interviews with him. The second part of the book > samples the sort of > reactions which Bo Yang's thoughts have provoked. > > > > *The Ugly Chinaman *explores aspects of the Chinese > character which Bo Yang > believes must be confronted honestly if China is to > survive and progress in > the modern world. > > > A final word: Ugly Chinamen may thrive in Chinese > society, but they are not > exclusive to it. In fact, you don't have to be > Chinese to be one. > > [blurb ends] > > i suspect it will be of interest to all of those > that have spent extended > time in china > --- "Our best security, our only security, is in the world of ideas, and I sense a slight foreboding," he said.-- Justice Anthony Kennedy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 23:33:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ram Devineni Subject: AIC-Cypher Salon and Reading in Sao Paulo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Friends: We will be starting an innovative new series fusing renowned poets and writers with award-winning short films from leading international film festivals. The free series, AIC-CYPHER Salon, is organized by Academia Internacional de Cinema and Cypher. Occurs every third Thursday of the month at the Jonathan Shorr Gallery in SoHo, NYC and is sponsored by Filmmovement.com and Pampero Rum. http://www.rattapallax.com/salon.htm [Far-Away & So Close] Thursday, October 19, 2006 at 7pm. NY-born vocalist and poet Haale weaves Persian melodies through a lush soundscape. Screening of Abbas Kiarostami & Daniel Mitelpunkt's Forest Without Leaves, and Oscar nominated short, Little Terrorist. [NeoNOIR NIGHT] Thursday, November 16, 2006 at 7pm. Robert Polito is the author of Savage Art: A Biography of Jim Thompson, which received the National Book Critics Circle Award. Featuring Ry Russo-Young's remake of Psycho, and Punk Rocker Henry Rollins as the angel of death in Deathdealer. --------------------- READING: Rattapallax Reading and Screening. August 25, 2006 at 7pm. Featuring Alberto Martins, Joao Bandeira, Idra Novey, Elisa Andrade Buzzo & Sylvio Back. Hosted by Flavia Rocha and Ram Devineni. Academia Internacional de Cinema, Rua Dr. Gabriel dos Santos, 142 Higienópolis Sao Paulo, Brazil. http://www.aicinema.com.br/ --------------- New Additions to FUSEBOX: http://www.rattapallax.com/fusebox4.htm Interview with John Tranter Between, Or Not Between: that is the question (for we Katrina evacuees) by Jeremy Schiff Cheers Ram Devineni Please send future emails to devineni@rattapallax.com for press ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 02:30:28 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AG Jorgensen Subject: Citations in Poetry In-Reply-To: <44D83A88.90300@myuw.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit A question to Listers: If a poem contains a product description, then how does one indicate this. For example, I have a poem that contains a description from an old clothing catalog of a specific coat the speaker in the poem is wearing, and which adds a kind of film noir quality to the piece. Your time's appreciated, AGJ --- "Our best security, our only security, is in the world of ideas, and I sense a slight foreboding," he said.-- Justice Anthony Kennedy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 04:52:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: payments for readings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i read last night for 8 minutes the woman who curated got 70 % of the door at 6 bucks a head that came out to about 140 bucks or so therer were close to 10 of us reading 40 audience way more than i anticipated i sold 3 books of my own 1 of my wife's we did not get any of that money from the door any thoughts? i read the night before drank one glass of apple juice 1/4 a glass of water heard some fantastic music read for 10 minutes sold for books of mine 2 cds 1 book of my wife's got paid $50 any thoughts on that? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 04:49:06 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Nelson Subject: new net artwork--evil mascots MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This one is even stranger…… TITLE: Evil Hypnotizing Mascots URL: http://www.heliozoa.com/evilmascot/mascotmascot.html And of course any comments are even more appreciated. Cheers, Jason Nelson new net artwork--evil mascots --------------------------------- Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 06:01:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Herb Levy Subject: Re: payments for readings In-Reply-To: <20060814.052942.-88958603.7.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My thought is that you should read at the second place more often than the first place. Steve Dalachinsky wrote: > i read last night > for 8 minutes > the woman who curated > got 70 % of the door at 6 bucks > a head > that came out to about 140 bucks or > so > therer were close to 10 of us reading > 40 audience > way more than > i anticipated > i sold 3 books of my own > 1 of my wife's > we did not get any of that money > from the door > any thoughts? > > > i read the night before > drank one glass of apple juice > 1/4 a glass of water > heard some fantastic music > read for 10 minutes > sold for books of mine > 2 cds > 1 book of my wife's > got paid $50 > any thoughts on that? > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 05:14:52 -0700 Reply-To: rsillima@yahoo.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Silliman's Blog Comments: To: Brit Po , New Po , Wom Po , Lucifer Poetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ RECENT POSTS The plastic poetry of Jessica Smith (the most ambitious book of 2006) Steve Reich at 70 and other notes Celery Flute a journal devoted to Kenneth Patchen Cinema and spirituality Travellers (sic) and Magicians Kirby Doyle A taste of Blake among the New American Poets Simon Pettet and his poems and the problems of next generation NY Schoolers Silver Standards of Justin Sirois and the 374 staples per book it requires Laugh1ng M1rrors Puk1ng: Stacy Doris reinvents the world A note on comments On turning 60 Philip K Dick & Shakespeare: The Simulacra Publishing Robert Grenier (100 Sentences / 100 Phrases) Jack Kerouac and Book of Sketches – a major work arrives sans editing James L. Weil Another Last Poem Visions of Kerouac – Clark Coolidge as literary critic Blog comments are back Sylvester Pollet and Backwoods Broadsides reach a conclusion Language Is by John Phillips a new moment is post-Projectivist post-Objectivist poetry? Mid-American Chants by Sherwood Anderson Writing as the personal never applied http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 08:22:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: payments for readings Comments: To: Steve Dalachinsky In-Reply-To: <20060814.052942.-88958603.7.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Ever done the work of curating? Any thoughts about that? On 14 Aug 2006 at 4:52, Steve Dalachinsky wrote: > i read last night > for 8 minutes > the woman who curated > got 70 % of the door at 6 bucks > a head > that came out to about 140 bucks or > so > therer were close to 10 of us reading > 40 audience > way more than > i anticipated > i sold 3 books of my own > 1 of my wife's > we did not get any of that money > from the door > any thoughts? > > > i read the night before > drank one glass of apple juice > 1/4 a glass of water > heard some fantastic music > read for 10 minutes > sold for books of mine > 2 cds > 1 book of my wife's > got paid $50 > any thoughts on that? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 08:50:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Larissa Shmailo Subject: payment for readings In-Reply-To: <20060814121452.95813.qmail@web31814.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The Woman Who Curated to skyplum@juno.com who paid out the money she made to the women who promoted the reading, emceed, did listings, photocopied flyers, made art, put in hours and days of work to make the reading happen. All of the readers who didn't do promotional work read gratis in exchange for getting their art products aggressively promoted for a month by the women who curated and to help us get our thing off the ground. The Women who curated has always paid artists for their work. Ask anyone who has read for her--we asked for the help of the readers to get our series going. And I believe I have read for skyplum gratis ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 09:58:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: susan maurer Subject: feminists with low cut blouses Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed i was thinking how cool it was to be a feature poet because you dont have to pay to hear the other people in a group reading.this while i was headed intoi nycs bobholmn.s bowery poetry clug to be in the femininst with low cut blouses reading ther and it wa so much fun. full houe good sales ( i sold every copy od DREAM ADDICT, backwood broadsides i brought, and jsut fun. a very unique combinable of good work and adorable people antics. thanks to larissa shmaillo for the invite. susan maurer _________________________________________________________________ On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 09:30:16 -0500 Reply-To: dgodston@sbcglobal.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Godston Subject: Lower & Upper Limits tomorrow In-Reply-To: <20060814.052942.-88958603.7.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Toni Asante Lightfoot will perform with The Ways & Means Trio at Muse Cafe - 8-10 p.m. on Tuesday, July 18 as part of the Lower & Upper Limits series Lower & Upper Limits is a series at Muse Cafe that explores collaborations between poets and musicians and relationships between language and music. The Ways & Means Trio is Jayve Montgomery (reeds, percussion, electronics), Joel Wanek (upright bass, cello), and Daniel Godston (trumpet, percussion). The title of this series is taken from Louis Zukofsky's "A-12": "I'll tell you. / About my poetics -- music / speech / An integral / Lower limit speech / Upper limit music." Lower & Upper Limits happens at Muse Cafe on the third Tuesday of the month. Muse Cafe is at 817 N. Milwaukee Ave. in Chicago, and the phone number is 312.850.2233. The Chicago station on the CTA blue line is a half a block away. This event is free and open to the public, donations appreciated. For more information about the Neighborhood Writing Alliance, please contact (773) 684-2742 or editors@jot.org, or visit their website at www.jot.org. For more information, visit these websites: www.musecafechicago.com & http://jayvejohnmontgomery.com/. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 11:09:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Re: payments for readings In-Reply-To: <20060814.052942.-88958603.7.skyplums@juno.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit hi steve and all, i've been curating events and getting paid to read for the past 15 years. one of the main things i try to do at events i put on is to inform performers of the economics of the nights. for our non-nyc small press series i let the press editors know that i don't charge a door so we can get them more exposure. we have a table for them to sell their offerings, and they keep 100% of their sales. when i do events with musical acts at different clubs i charge a door. every club does the door differently, with some taking a certain number of doors who enter, say first three paid per hour of a show; while others take anywhere from 25%-50% of the door, depending upon their policy and your track record at the venue. still another took the first $200 off the door to pay the door person and the sound person, then another 10% of the remainder as a club charge, before giving us the remainder. with some shows, for example when we did a benefit for sean cole's december project book about two years ago where we performed Pink Floyd's The Wall live, all of the money we raised went toward printing sean's book. with other shows, where i usually have 2-3 poets open up and anywhere from 5-13 musical acts perform an album live, i count the total number of performers (so a solo act doesn't get the same as a five-piece band) and performances (so if one performer plays with two different acts they get paid twice), take my cut for putting on the show (anywhere from 30%-50%) and then divide that remaining figure by the number of performances. i then adjust that figure so the numbers are as round as they can be. also, before any money is doled out, if the club is able to record an event off their board we pay them for that, and since all the musical act's share a common backline, some musicians' at times fill out the backline with an amp or drums depending upon the need. for them i take their r/t cab fare off the top. and with these shows, too, the performers are welcome to sell any of their own product and keep 100% of the proceeds. when i'm reading, if i'm not told or already know how it works at the venue, i ask the curator. most times it's for free and on occasion there are a few dollars involved. what it sounds like from your email steve is that you didn't get things straight with your curators, be it before, during, or after yr shows, and so ended up happier on one end than the other. best, david -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 on 8/14/06 4:52 AM, Steve Dalachinsky at skyplums@JUNO.COM wrote: > i read last night > for 8 minutes > the woman who curated > got 70 % of the door at 6 bucks > a head > that came out to about 140 bucks or > so > therer were close to 10 of us reading > 40 audience > way more than > i anticipated > i sold 3 books of my own > 1 of my wife's > we did not get any of that money > from the door > any thoughts? > > > i read the night before > drank one glass of apple juice > 1/4 a glass of water > heard some fantastic music > read for 10 minutes > sold for books of mine > 2 cds > 1 book of my wife's > got paid $50 > any thoughts on that? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 08:38:29 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: payments for readings In-Reply-To: <20060814.052942.-88958603.7.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit It's always nice to get paid for giving a reading. Obviously there should be more readings that pay the readers. Still, are any of us ready to start turning down readings where we don't get paid? I don't think so. Though I heard a rumor about a recently dead poet who just before he died decided to accept only readings that came with payment so it has happened. Still, I tend to take whatever readings are offered me and look upon it as a pleasant plus when I make some money. Selling one's books is always an option if one obsesses enough about it. Steve Dalachinsky wrote: i read last night for 8 minutes the woman who curated got 70 % of the door at 6 bucks a head that came out to about 140 bucks or so therer were close to 10 of us reading 40 audience way more than i anticipated i sold 3 books of my own 1 of my wife's we did not get any of that money from the door any thoughts? i read the night before drank one glass of apple juice 1/4 a glass of water heard some fantastic music read for 10 minutes sold for books of mine 2 cds 1 book of my wife's got paid $50 any thoughts on that? --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 11:48:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: a few reviews Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I am running behind on a compilation list of "Notable Books" for the past year or two: just too many to ever get to the end. Well, maybe September. For the moment, I have posted short reviews of (mostly not so new) books by Gil Sorrentino, Ko Un, Colin Browne, Robert Kelly, & Vito Acconci at http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/bernstein/blog & in the meantime just got an advance copy of *Girly Man*, which will be out from the University of Chicago press in about a month. Charles Bernstein ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 12:32:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: payments for readings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain and the poet gets the door prize? On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 11:09:06 +0000, "David A. Kirschenbaum" wrote: > > , with some taking a certain number of doors > who enter, <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 11:35:55 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: payments for readings In-Reply-To: <200608141632.MAA07740@webmail3.cac.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No, the poet gets the door. Hal "To go is to go farther." --Kenneth Koch Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@gmail.com halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Aug 14, 2006, at 11:32 AM, ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > and the poet gets the door prize? > > On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 11:09:06 +0000, "David A. Kirschenbaum" wrote: > >> >> , with some taking a certain number of doors >> who enter, > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > --Emily Dickinson > > Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > > Aldon L. Nielsen > Kelly Professor of American Literature > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 12:03:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: payments for readings In-Reply-To: <20060814153829.80923.qmail@web31107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed steve-- look at it this way--in two nights you read a total of 18 minutes and earned $50.00 on top of that you sold bunch of books and cds-- heard free music and am sure had yr beverages free basically you were being paid abt $2.70/minute-- or--abt $162/hour plus the sales of the cds, books and the perks of free music etc-- you'd have to work over twenty hours at a factory job at $10.00/hr minus the taxes-- to earn that much--with no free music and free drinks either-- and lot more hours than that if you were making minimum wage-- heck, i get 70 dollars a week from SSI-from three spinal fusions---and fourteen goes right away to bus pass i.e. $56.00/week! my friend, sometimes it helps to put things in perspective being a poet, an artist--a rough life,sure- but on other hand a lot of fun and endlessly interesting-- most people don't have that-- they got to work at hard jobs they don't like and takes a day or more to make what you got for 18 minutes, not counting the sales of your wares--and yr name in lights--so to speak--listed in the paper and elists etc and having audience too-- and then being able to complain about it in the bargain! i wd say in a way you have it made! lighten up and take stock you are leading the life you WANT to have, right , not the life you HAVE to have or are FORCED to have you can't put a price on that-- and also--as was pointed out--the workers at a place where you read put in long hours and get paid very far less--money from the door doesn't go very far when goes into paying workers and overhead etc-- so hey--enjoy the life of a poet!--and have some laughs abt al the stranage scenes and deals one gets to be part of-- as a book i have here studying says: "Sure Beats Sittin in a Cell"!! take it easy but take it as woody guthrie wd say-- david-bc >From: Thomas savage >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: payments for readings >Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 08:38:29 -0700 > >It's always nice to get paid for giving a reading. Obviously there should >be more readings that pay the readers. Still, are any of us ready to start >turning down readings where we don't get paid? I don't think so. Though I >heard a rumor about a recently dead poet who just before he died decided to >accept only readings that came with payment so it has happened. Still, I >tend to take whatever readings are offered me and look upon it as a >pleasant plus when I make some money. Selling one's books is always an >option if one obsesses enough about it. > >Steve Dalachinsky wrote: i read last night >for 8 minutes >the woman who curated >got 70 % of the door at 6 bucks >a head >that came out to about 140 bucks or >so >therer were close to 10 of us reading >40 audience >way more than >i anticipated >i sold 3 books of my own >1 of my wife's >we did not get any of that money >from the door >any thoughts? > > >i read the night before >drank one glass of apple juice >1/4 a glass of water >heard some fantastic music >read for 10 minutes >sold for books of mine >2 cds >1 book of my wife's >got paid $50 >any thoughts on that? > > > >--------------------------------- >Do you Yahoo!? > Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta. _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 13:12:28 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: payments for readings In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit After expenses, e.g., transportation and meals, $50 is more than I've gotten for any reading I've ever done in my life. Most of the time I get no pay at all, not even the door. And sometimes I don't even sell a book! Bottom line, at the venue you're unhappy with you made out way better than I did at the Poetry Project last September, or at any other time in my life. Vernon http://vernonfrazer.com -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of David-Baptiste Chirot Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 1:04 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: payments for readings steve-- look at it this way--in two nights you read a total of 18 minutes and earned $50.00 on top of that you sold bunch of books and cds-- heard free music and am sure had yr beverages free basically you were being paid abt $2.70/minute-- or--abt $162/hour plus the sales of the cds, books and the perks of free music etc-- you'd have to work over twenty hours at a factory job at $10.00/hr minus the taxes-- to earn that much--with no free music and free drinks either-- and lot more hours than that if you were making minimum wage-- heck, i get 70 dollars a week from SSI-from three spinal fusions---and fourteen goes right away to bus pass i.e. $56.00/week! my friend, sometimes it helps to put things in perspective being a poet, an artist--a rough life,sure- but on other hand a lot of fun and endlessly interesting-- most people don't have that-- they got to work at hard jobs they don't like and takes a day or more to make what you got for 18 minutes, not counting the sales of your wares--and yr name in lights--so to speak--listed in the paper and elists etc and having audience too-- and then being able to complain about it in the bargain! i wd say in a way you have it made! lighten up and take stock you are leading the life you WANT to have, right , not the life you HAVE to have or are FORCED to have you can't put a price on that-- and also--as was pointed out--the workers at a place where you read put in long hours and get paid very far less--money from the door doesn't go very far when goes into paying workers and overhead etc-- so hey--enjoy the life of a poet!--and have some laughs abt al the stranage scenes and deals one gets to be part of-- as a book i have here studying says: "Sure Beats Sittin in a Cell"!! take it easy but take it as woody guthrie wd say-- david-bc >From: Thomas savage >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: payments for readings >Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 08:38:29 -0700 > >It's always nice to get paid for giving a reading. Obviously there should >be more readings that pay the readers. Still, are any of us ready to start >turning down readings where we don't get paid? I don't think so. Though I >heard a rumor about a recently dead poet who just before he died decided to >accept only readings that came with payment so it has happened. Still, I >tend to take whatever readings are offered me and look upon it as a >pleasant plus when I make some money. Selling one's books is always an >option if one obsesses enough about it. > >Steve Dalachinsky wrote: i read last night >for 8 minutes >the woman who curated >got 70 % of the door at 6 bucks >a head >that came out to about 140 bucks or >so >therer were close to 10 of us reading >40 audience >way more than >i anticipated >i sold 3 books of my own >1 of my wife's >we did not get any of that money >from the door >any thoughts? > > >i read the night before >drank one glass of apple juice >1/4 a glass of water >heard some fantastic music >read for 10 minutes >sold for books of mine >2 cds >1 book of my wife's >got paid $50 >any thoughts on that? > > > >--------------------------------- >Do you Yahoo!? > Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta. _________________________________________________________________ Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 12:56:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: payments for readings In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable thanks for your great spirit, d-b c At 12:03 PM -0500 8/14/06, David-Baptiste Chirot wrote: >steve-- >look at it this way--in two nights you read a=20 >total of 18 minutes and earned $50.00 >on top of that you sold bunch of books and cds-- >heard free music and am sure had yr beverages free > >basically you were being paid abt $2.70/minute-- >or--abt $162/hour >plus the sales of the cds, books and the perks of free music etc-- > >you'd have to work over twenty hours at a=20 >factory job at $10.00/hr minus the taxes-- >to earn that much--with no free music and free drinks either-- > >and lot more hours than that if you were making minimum wage-- > >heck, i get 70 dollars a week from SSI-from=20 >three spinal fusions---and fourteen goes right=20 >away to bus pass >i.e. $56.00/week! > >my friend, sometimes it helps to put things in perspective >being a poet, an artist--a rough life,sure- >but on other hand a lot of fun and endlessly interesting-- >most people don't have that-- >they got to work at hard jobs they don't like=20 >and takes a day or more to make what you got for=20 >18 minutes, not counting the sales of your=20 >wares--and yr name in lights--so to=20 >speak--listed in the paper and elists etc and=20 >having audience too-- >and then being able to complain about it in the bargain! >i wd say in a way you have it made! >lighten up and take stock >you are leading the life you WANT to have, right=20 >, not the life you HAVE to have or are FORCED to=20 >have >you can't put a price on that-- > >and also--as was pointed out--the workers at a=20 >place where you read put in long hours and get=20 >paid very far less--money from the door doesn't=20 >go very far when goes into paying workers and=20 >overhead etc-- > >so hey--enjoy the life of a poet!--and have some=20 >laughs abt al the stranage scenes and deals one=20 >gets to be part of-- >as a book i have here studying says: "Sure Beats Sittin in a Cell"!! >take it easy but take it as woody guthrie wd say-- >david-bc > > > > >>From: Thomas savage >>Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >>To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>Subject: Re: payments for readings >>Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 08:38:29 -0700 >> >>It's always nice to get paid for giving a=20 >>reading. Obviously there should be more=20 >>readings that pay the readers. Still, are any=20 >>of us ready to start turning down readings=20 >>where we don't get paid? I don't think so.=20 >>Though I heard a rumor about a recently dead=20 >>poet who just before he died decided to accept=20 >>only readings that came with payment so it has=20 >>happened. Still, I tend to take whatever=20 >>readings are offered me and look upon it as a=20 >>pleasant plus when I make some money. Selling=20 >>one's books is always an option if one obsesses=20 >>enough about it. >> >>Steve Dalachinsky wrote: i read last night >>for 8 minutes >>the woman who curated >>got 70 % of the door at 6 bucks >>a head >>that came out to about 140 bucks or >>so >>therer were close to 10 of us reading >>40 audience >>way more than >>i anticipated >>i sold 3 books of my own >>1 of my wife's >>we did not get any of that money >>from the door >>any thoughts? >> >> >>i read the night before >>drank one glass of apple juice >>1/4 a glass of water >>heard some fantastic music >>read for 10 minutes >>sold for books of mine >>2 cds >>1 book of my wife's >>got paid $50 >>any thoughts on that? >> >> >> >>--------------------------------- >>Do you Yahoo!? >> Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta. > >_________________________________________________________________ >Don=92t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN=20 >Search!=20 >http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 14:09:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: payments for readings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Vernon, The Poetry Project pays more than $50,00 a reading. Murat ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 14:16:01 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: payments for readings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit David, What about all the time it took one to write the poems? Of course, the writing of the poems can be considered a consumption, a play, rather than a production -then, you are being paid all this money to have a good time -which I think is basically what you are saying. Ciao Murat In a message dated 8/14/2006 1:03:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, David-Baptiste Chirot writes: >steve-- >look at it this way--in two nights you read a total of 18 minutes and earned >$50.00 >on top of that you sold bunch of books and cds-- >heard free music and am sure had yr beverages free > >basically you were being paid abt $2.70/minute-- >or--abt $162/hour >plus the sales of the cds, books and the perks of free music etc-- > >you'd have to work over twenty hours at a factory job at $10.00/hr minus the >taxes-- >to earn that much--with no free music and free drinks either-- > >and lot more hours than that if you were making minimum wage-- > >heck, i get 70 dollars a week from SSI-from three spinal fusions---and >fourteen goes right away to bus pass >i.e. $56.00/week! > >my friend, sometimes it helps to put things in perspective >being a poet, an artist--a rough life,sure- >but on other hand a lot of fun and endlessly interesting-- >most people don't have that-- >they got to work at hard jobs they don't like and takes a day or more to >make what you got for 18 minutes, not counting the sales of your wares--and >yr name in lights--so to speak--listed in the paper and elists etc and >having audience too-- >and then being able to complain about it in the bargain! >i wd say in a way you have it made! >lighten up and take stock >you are leading the life you WANT to have, right , not the life you HAVE to >have or are FORCED to have >you can't put a price on that-- > >and also--as was pointed out--the workers at a place where you read put in >long hours and get paid very far less--money from the door doesn't go very >far when goes into paying workers and overhead etc-- > >so hey--enjoy the life of a poet!--and have some laughs abt al the stranage >scenes and deals one gets to be part of-- >as a book i have here studying says: "Sure Beats Sittin in a Cell"!! >take it easy but take it as woody guthrie wd say-- >david-bc > > > > > >>From: Thomas savage >>Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >>To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>Subject: Re: payments for readings >>Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 08:38:29 -0700 >> >>It's always nice to get paid for giving a reading. Obviously there should >>be more readings that pay the readers. Still, are any of us ready to start >>turning down readings where we don't get paid? I don't think so. Though I >>heard a rumor about a recently dead poet who just before he died decided to >>accept only readings that came with payment so it has happened. Still, I >>tend to take whatever readings are offered me and look upon it as a >>pleasant plus when I make some money. Selling one's books is always an >>option if one obsesses enough about it. >> >>Steve Dalachinsky wrote: i read last night >>for 8 minutes >>the woman who curated >>got 70 % of the door at 6 bucks >>a head >>that came out to about 140 bucks or >>so >>therer were close to 10 of us reading >>40 audience >>way more than >>i anticipated >>i sold 3 books of my own >>1 of my wife's >>we did not get any of that money >>from the door >>any thoughts? >> >> >>i read the night before >>drank one glass of apple juice >>1/4 a glass of water >>heard some fantastic music >>read for 10 minutes >>sold for books of mine >>2 cds >>1 book of my wife's >>got paid $50 >>any thoughts on that? >> >> >> >>--------------------------------- >>Do you Yahoo!? >> Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta. > >_________________________________________________________________ >Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! >http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 14:17:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kevin thurston Subject: Re: payments for readings In-Reply-To: <49B830D4.17F91F65.001942C5@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline if it worked that way (an hourly rate for writing) who would be able to afford a book? On 8/14/06, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > > David, > > What about all the time it took one to write the poems? Of course, the > writing of the poems can be considered a consumption, a play, rather than a > production -then, you are being paid all this money to have a good time > -which I think is basically what you are saying. > > Ciao > > Murat > > In a message dated 8/14/2006 1:03:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > David-Baptiste Chirot writes: > > >steve-- > >look at it this way--in two nights you read a total of 18 minutes and > earned > >$50.00 > >on top of that you sold bunch of books and cds-- > >heard free music and am sure had yr beverages free > > > >basically you were being paid abt $2.70/minute-- > >or--abt $162/hour > >plus the sales of the cds, books and the perks of free music etc-- > > > >you'd have to work over twenty hours at a factory job at $10.00/hr minus > the > >taxes-- > >to earn that much--with no free music and free drinks either-- > > > >and lot more hours than that if you were making minimum wage-- > > > >heck, i get 70 dollars a week from SSI-from three spinal fusions---and > >fourteen goes right away to bus pass > >i.e. $56.00/week! > > > >my friend, sometimes it helps to put things in perspective > >being a poet, an artist--a rough life,sure- > >but on other hand a lot of fun and endlessly interesting-- > >most people don't have that-- > >they got to work at hard jobs they don't like and takes a day or more to > >make what you got for 18 minutes, not counting the sales of your > wares--and > >yr name in lights--so to speak--listed in the paper and elists etc and > >having audience too-- > >and then being able to complain about it in the bargain! > >i wd say in a way you have it made! > >lighten up and take stock > >you are leading the life you WANT to have, right , not the life you HAVE > to > >have or are FORCED to have > >you can't put a price on that-- > > > >and also--as was pointed out--the workers at a place where you read put > in > >long hours and get paid very far less--money from the door doesn't go > very > >far when goes into paying workers and overhead etc-- > > > >so hey--enjoy the life of a poet!--and have some laughs abt al the > stranage > >scenes and deals one gets to be part of-- > >as a book i have here studying says: "Sure Beats Sittin in a Cell"!! > >take it easy but take it as woody guthrie wd say-- > >david-bc > > > > > > > > > > > >>From: Thomas savage > >>Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > >>To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >>Subject: Re: payments for readings > >>Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 08:38:29 -0700 > >> > >>It's always nice to get paid for giving a reading. Obviously there > should > >>be more readings that pay the readers. Still, are any of us ready to > start > >>turning down readings where we don't get paid? I don't think > so. Though I > >>heard a rumor about a recently dead poet who just before he died decided > to > >>accept only readings that came with payment so it has happened. Still, > I > >>tend to take whatever readings are offered me and look upon it as a > >>pleasant plus when I make some money. Selling one's books is always an > >>option if one obsesses enough about it. > >> > >>Steve Dalachinsky wrote: i read last night > >>for 8 minutes > >>the woman who curated > >>got 70 % of the door at 6 bucks > >>a head > >>that came out to about 140 bucks or > >>so > >>therer were close to 10 of us reading > >>40 audience > >>way more than > >>i anticipated > >>i sold 3 books of my own > >>1 of my wife's > >>we did not get any of that money > >>from the door > >>any thoughts? > >> > >> > >>i read the night before > >>drank one glass of apple juice > >>1/4 a glass of water > >>heard some fantastic music > >>read for 10 minutes > >>sold for books of mine > >>2 cds > >>1 book of my wife's > >>got paid $50 > >>any thoughts on that? > >> > >> > >> > >>--------------------------------- > >>Do you Yahoo!? > >> Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta. > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! > >http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ > > > -- http://fuckinglies.blogspot.com http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/thepixelplus/nhdoublewide.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 14:44:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: payments for readings In-Reply-To: <1FFC1F46.18C19EB8.001942C5@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Murat I know that. But I traveled from Hartford, CT to do the reading. It was a 6- hour round trip, took a full tank of gas at 2005 prices, numerous tolls, and two meals on the road. Moreover, I treated my "reading assistants" to dinner with my $150 fee because that was about the only way that I could pay them for their time and trouble. So, over all, I probably spent $50 more than I earned that day to do the reading. If I lived in New York, it would be a very nice pay day. I certainly have no complaints about the way the Poetry Project treats me; it's one of the most professional, supportive venues I've ever performed in. This is my second post to the List. If you want to discuss this further, you can backchannel me. Vernon -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Murat Nemet-Nejat Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 2:10 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: payments for readings Vernon, The Poetry Project pays more than $50,00 a reading. Murat ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 15:34:53 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AMBogle2@AOL.COM Subject: Re: payments for readings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit One of my poet friends is a triple zillionaire (there are those). He accepted "a small honorarium" of $1,500 to read at his alma mater. Granted, he reads as well as the best of them. Still, my rate is about $50, same alma mater. I caused two fiction audiences to laugh straight through two different short stories on two far-flung occasions. Since I had never attended such a funny fiction reading myself, I was caught off guard. I thought these stories were very earnest and sincere and even sad, so I read them straight, while the audiences came at me in syncopated laughter waves that lasted 30 minutes. Fiction that makes you laugh straight through, not just once or twice, deserves the same fee my friend (a mellow intoner) gets, but how likely is it? I was paid $50 for one of the readings (without incurring related expenses); for the other, I needed to buy a plane ticket and meals. It would be impossible to say that I regret doing the reading at Ruthless Grip, which is as that curator had predicted: no one ever had said s/he regretted it. In 2001, to date my latest go at readings, it was my turn for a featured in St. Paul, a $50 deal, but I couldn't FIND the cafe where the reading was to take place. I probably owe them money because I wasn't there and had made such a fuss about how it had to be a featured, etc. I felt like Arthur Craven, a no-show. Then I got uppity further thinking what if I had done "a dry run" and driven there twice, given the reading, and then only earned $50. Major readings at a synagogue four miles from my house (Roth, Atwood, Oates, Alice Munro, Russell Banks and others) cost $24 at the door. I'm in favor of charging for it, but I couldn't personally afford to go to those readings, alas. Ann Bogle ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 15:54:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: payments for readings In-Reply-To: <44E0580D.5060309@eskimo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sounds to me that if you're concerned about the money you make for reading then you need to market yourself better, do fewer readings just for the sake of reading & set up solo gigs for yourself & your own projects. Have a show that people want to see & make em pay to see it. Play the grants game, play the art world game, play the university circuit game & most likely with a bit of persistence you can make some real world money. Otherwise you should just relish being part of a vibrant local independent performance scene that is readily accessible & diverse & make your money doing something else. Given the opportunity I'd chose the later without hesitation. ~mIEKAL On Aug 14, 2006, at 6:01 AM, Herb Levy wrote: > My thought is that you should read at the second place more often > than the first place. > > Steve Dalachinsky wrote: >> i read last night for 8 minutes >> the woman who curated >> got 70 % of the door at 6 bucks >> a head >> that came out to about 140 bucks or so >> therer were close to 10 of us reading >> 40 audience >> way more than >> i anticipated >> i sold 3 books of my own >> 1 of my wife's >> we did not get any of that money from the door >> any thoughts? >> >> >> i read the night before >> drank one glass of apple juice >> 1/4 a glass of water >> heard some fantastic music >> read for 10 minutes >> sold for books of mine >> 2 cds >> 1 book of my wife's >> got paid $50 >> any thoughts on that? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:25:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William Allegrezza Comments: To: wallegre@iun.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit series A literary reading. Next Tuesday, the 22nd, at 7:00 p.m., series A is proud to host a reading by the poet Krista Franklin and prose writer Davis Schneiderman at the Hyde Park Art Center (5020 S. Cornell Avenue) in the 4833rph Meeting Room. Please join us to celebrate these two writers. The reading is BYOB. I'll bring some cups to go around. Also, as my list is not long, please forward this note to anyone you think would be interested. Bill Allegrezza www.moriapoetry.com/seriesa.html Krista Franklin is a poet, visual artist and educator who hails from Dayton, OH, and currently works and resides in Chicago, IL. Her poems and art have appeared in/on several literary journals and websites, including Nexus Literary and Art Journal, Warpland, Obsidian III, nocturnes 2: (re)view of the literary arts, semantikon.com, milkmag.org, ambulant.org, and errataandcontradiction.org. She has also been published in the anthologies The Bust Guide to the New Girl Order and Bum Rush The Page, and is a Cave Canem alum. Davis Schneiderman is a multimedia artist and author of Multifesto: A Henri d'Mescan Reader (Spuyten Duyvil 2006), as well as co-author of the novel Abecedarium (Chiasmus Press, forthcoming) and co-editor of the collections Retaking the Universe: William S. Burroughs in the Age of Globalization (Pluto 2004) and The Exquisite Corpse: Creativity, Collaboration, and the World's Most Popular Parlor Game (Nebraska, forthcoming). His creative work has been nominated for a Pushcart Prize and accepted by numerous publications including Fiction International, The Chicago Tribune, The Iowa Review Web, Exquisite Corpse, 3rd Bed, Other Voices, The Little Magazine, Gargoyle, and Happy. Dr. Schneiderman is Chair of American Studies and an Assistant Professor of English at Lake Forest College, a board member for &NOW: A Festival of Innovative Writing and Art, and a contributor to NOW WHAT: a collective blog of alternative prose writers and publishers (http://nowwhatblog.blogspot.com/). ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 17:02:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dale Smith Subject: Announcing: O Poss In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" O Poss Issue 1, Summer 2006. O Poss is a Skanky Possum production, perfectly spontaneous and irregular. O Poss springs from the spleens of Dale Smith and Hoa Nguyen. Buy O Poss now through effing press: http://osnapper.typepad.com/ Paypal makes your purchase easy. O Poss will be available through SPD later this month. *** Contributors for this hot summer issue include: Alice Notley Jack Collom Philip Trussell Peggy Kelley Brenda Coultas Hoa Nguyen Ron Silliman Shin Yu Pai Susan Briante Brooks Johnson Richard Owens Marcia Roberts Tony Tost Dale Smith Betsy Andrews & Peter Fox Thurston Moore David Hadbawnik Farid Matuk Scott Pierce Ammiel Alcalay * We have no future plans. There is only the future! -- Dale Smith 2925 Higgins Street Austin, Texas 78722 www.skankypossum.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 18:48:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: matt chambers Subject: On Words: A Symposium on the Life and Work of Robert Creeley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello all, The SUNY Buffalo English Dept. will be hosting a conference on Robert Creeley from Oct. 12th to the 14th, which will feature readings and papers from a rather astonishing list of poets and critics. All the details can be found at the website below. http://www.english.buffalo.edu/OnWords.htm The website will be updated as new information is made available. This conference has been made possible in large part through the dedication and sweat of Steve McCaffery and Karen Mac Cormack. We hope you can join us. In touch. -Matt __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 01:29:15 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Ciccariello Subject: "the diplomacy of quietude in critical landscape" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline "the diplomacy of quietude in critical landscape" http://tinyurl.com/k4quj -- Peter Ciccariello http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 01:40:33 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AMBogle2@AOL.COM Subject: Re: payments for readings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/14/06 3:55:05 PM Central Daylight Time, dtv@MWT.NET writes: > Otherwise you should just relish > being part of a vibrant local independent performance scene that is > readily accessible & diverse & make your money doing something > else. Given the opportunity I'd chose the later without hesitation. > A few years ago, I had this plan to attend as many small venue readings as I could, just to understand what talent was like in the Twin Cities. So far, when I had gone out to hear a reading, everything was great: the poets were really good, they were more-than-average performance-oriented, they were nice people, an open mic I went to here was the best I'd ever seen, all true, but there were too few just plain audience members, people not reading, so I wanted to be one of those, someone listening, not reading, or mostly not reading, because I had done that for theater and for rock 'n roll, also in smaller venues, and really had fun, even though I was not in the performance, not even reviewing, and was more like a pure fan. I would still like to do something like that again for poetry (as we did in Binghamton with the Binghamton Community Poets), if not here, then in another place. And you're right: the BCP, for example, all had day jobs, and what did any of us actually care about money then? We had great nights. That outfit hired a heckler (great bulbous-nosed George) to howl and lament from the bar apropos of nothing or something the poets were howling or lamenting in the next room. They were a troupe with a sizable, loyal audience. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 01:00:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: payments for readings Comments: To: marcus@designerglass.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit have curated as well many times ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 01:35:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: AIC-Cypher Salon and Reading in Sao Paulo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit what constitues reknown in your eyes? ears? etc? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 09:08:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Waber Subject: @phabet, by Donato Mancini, from Ligatures Comments: To: announce@logolalia.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii As we wave goodbye to the z of Karri Kokko's Characters it's time to wave hello to the a of Donato Mancini's @phabet, from Ligatures (New Star Books 2005). New series begins today at: http://www.logolalia.com/abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz/ Enjoy, Dan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 10:31:17 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fulcrum Annual Organization: Fulcrum Annual Subject: Fulcrum 4 Sold out at Office MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Number Four (2005) of Fulcrum has sold out at the Fulcrum office. Regrettably, we are no longer able to honor purchase requests for this issue. Fulcrum 5 (Poets & Philosophers; Poetry & Harvard in the 1920s + much more) is forthcoming in early September and may now be preordered. Issues 1 (A Map of English Language Poetry) and 3 (The Berkeley Renaissance; New Zealand Poetry; Poetry and Psyche) are also available at the normal individual subscription rate of US$15+shipping ($30+shipping for institutions). A tiny number of copies of Issue 2 (Philosophies of Poetry), now rare, is available at the rate of $60 per copy (+shipping). Shipping charges: in the US add $2/copy for media mail postage; international subscribers add $7 per copy for surface shipment, $12 per copy for airmail. Send check or money order drawn in US currency and payable to the editorial address below. We are reading unsolicited subscriptions for Fulcrum 6 (2007) through the end of August. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Philip Nikolayev & Katia Kapovich, eds. FULCRUM: AN ANNUAL OF POETRY AND AESTHETICS 334 Harvard Street, Suite D-2 Cambridge, MA 02139, USA phone 617-864-7874 e-mail editor@fulcrumpoetry.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 08:10:58 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: payments for readings In-Reply-To: <425.41236e00.32122a5d@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Nor could I afford to go to a reading in which I had to pay for transportation. In recent years, I've done this only once, for a reading in Philadelphia to which I took a cheap bus. The ride was with some close friends of mine who were also reading. I read mostly in NYC where I live. I would like to read more outside NYC but wouldn't know how to handle the transportation costs if they weren't covered by the hosting organization or person.So I guess some sort of payment, even a roundtrip ticket, would be necessary in such a situation. There was an instance, almost twenty years ago where I was invited to read in Nicaragua at something called the Ruben Dario Poetry Festival. Fortunately, one of my parents was still alive then and she covered the air fare to and from Managua. I made this exception because I was interested in seeing what a Communist country looked and felt like but had never been to one before this occasion. AMBogle2@AOL.COM wrote: One of my poet friends is a triple zillionaire (there are those). He accepted "a small honorarium" of $1,500 to read at his alma mater. Granted, he reads as well as the best of them. Still, my rate is about $50, same alma mater. I caused two fiction audiences to laugh straight through two different short stories on two far-flung occasions. Since I had never attended such a funny fiction reading myself, I was caught off guard. I thought these stories were very earnest and sincere and even sad, so I read them straight, while the audiences came at me in syncopated laughter waves that lasted 30 minutes. Fiction that makes you laugh straight through, not just once or twice, deserves the same fee my friend (a mellow intoner) gets, but how likely is it? I was paid $50 for one of the readings (without incurring related expenses); for the other, I needed to buy a plane ticket and meals. It would be impossible to say that I regret doing the reading at Ruthless Grip, which is as that curator had predicted: no one ever had said s/he regretted it. In 2001, to date my latest go at readings, it was my turn for a featured in St. Paul, a $50 deal, but I couldn't FIND the cafe where the reading was to take place. I probably owe them money because I wasn't there and had made such a fuss about how it had to be a featured, etc. I felt like Arthur Craven, a no-show. Then I got uppity further thinking what if I had done "a dry run" and driven there twice, given the reading, and then only earned $50. Major readings at a synagogue four miles from my house (Roth, Atwood, Oates, Alice Munro, Russell Banks and others) cost $24 at the door. I'm in favor of charging for it, but I couldn't personally afford to go to those readings, alas. Ann Bogle --------------------------------- Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 08:13:20 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Tonight! I N V E R S E Reading Series @ BUBBLE HOUSE -- with TOM DEVANEY AMY KING ETHEL RACKIN w/ CHRIS HUFF In-Reply-To: <20060815.023743.-83359.9.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Please Join Us This Evening! Tuesday, AUGUST 15 @ 7:30 pm at the BUBBLE HOUSE 3404 Sansom Street Philadelphia, PA http://inversepoetry.com **********INVERSE presents********* ////////////////////////////// THOMAS DEVANEY \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// AMY KING \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ ///////////////////////////// ETHEL RACKIN \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ ||||||||||||||with a special acoustic performance by CHRIS HUFF ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| $7 admission (includes a drink of your choice) you will receive a commemorative broadside that is good for 10% off your next poetry purchase at Penn Book Center Come early, seating is limited! brief open mike to follow Thomas Devaney is author of American Pragmatist Fell in Love (Banshee Press, 1999) and Letters to Ernesto Neto (Germ Folios, 2005). His book Incessant Spaces is forthcoming from Fish Drum Press. Devaney has poetry forthcoming in jubilat and The American Poetry Review. He is currently a Penn Senior Writing Fellow in the English Department at the University of Pennsylvania. Amy King is the author of the poetry collection, Antidotes for an Alibi (Blazvox Books 2005), and the chapbook, The People Instruments (Pavement Saw Press Chapbook Award 2002). She currently teaches Creative Writing and English at Nassau Community College and is the managing editor for MiPOesias. Ethel Rackin's poems have appeared in The American Poetry Review, Colorado Review, Volt, Court Green, and elsewhere. She has taught creative writing at Haverford College, Penn State, and The Pennsylvania Governor's School for the Arts. Currently a doctoral candidate in English at Princeton University, she lives in New Hope, Pennsylvania. Chris Huff has performed and worked internationally as a singer/songwriter solo artist, multi-instrumentalist sideman, and producer in such notable and diverse venues as Carnegie Hall, CBGB's, and The Bitter End in NYC, Maxwell's in Hoboken, Caff� Lena in Saratoga, NY, The Mean Fiddler in London, England, and The Bluebird Caf� in Nashville. JOIN US EVERY THIRD TUESDAY OF THE MONTH FOR MORE TERRIFIC INVERSE POETRY AND MUSIC --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 08:15:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Tonight! I N V E R S E Reading Series @ BUBBLE HOUSE -- with TOM DEVANEY AMY KING ETHEL RACKIN w/ CHRIS HUFF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Please Join Us This Evening! Tuesday, AUGUST 15 @ 7:30 pm at the BUBBLE HOUSE 3404 Sansom Street Philadelphia, PA http://inversepoetry.com **********INVERSE presents********* ////////////////////////////// THOMAS DEVANEY \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// AMY KING \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ ///////////////////////////// ETHEL RACKIN \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ ||||||||||||||with a special acoustic performance by CHRIS HUFF ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| $7 admission (includes a drink of your choice) you will receive a commemorative broadside that is good for 10% off your next poetry purchase at Penn Book Center Come early, seating is limited! brief open mike to follow Thomas Devaney is author of American Pragmatist Fell in Love (Banshee Press, 1999) and Letters to Ernesto Neto (Germ Folios, 2005). His book Incessant Spaces is forthcoming from Fish Drum Press. Devaney has poetry forthcoming in jubilat and The American Poetry Review. He is currently a Penn Senior Writing Fellow in the English Department at the University of Pennsylvania. Amy King is the author of the poetry collection, Antidotes for an Alibi (Blazvox Books 2005), and the chapbook, The People Instruments (Pavement Saw Press Chapbook Award 2002). She currently teaches Creative Writing and English at Nassau Community College and is the managing editor for MiPOesias. Ethel Rackin's poems have appeared in The American Poetry Review, Colorado Review, Volt, Court Green, and elsewhere. She has taught creative writing at Haverford College, Penn State, and The Pennsylvania Governor's School for the Arts. Currently a doctoral candidate in English at Princeton University, she lives in New Hope, Pennsylvania. Chris Huff has performed and worked internationally as a singer/songwriter solo artist, multi-instrumentalist sideman, and producer in such notable and diverse venues as Carnegie Hall, CBGB's, and The Bitter End in NYC, Maxwell's in Hoboken, Caff� Lena in Saratoga, NY, The Mean Fiddler in London, England, and The Bluebird Caf� in Nashville. JOIN US EVERY THIRD TUESDAY OF THE MONTH FOR MORE TERRIFIC INVERSE POETRY AND MUSIC --------------------------------- Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 08:43:55 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AG Jorgensen Subject: Recommended LISTSERVs In-Reply-To: <20060815151058.89765.qmail@web31112.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Any recommendations on other lists worth considering. AGJ --- "Our best security, our only security, is in the world of ideas, and I sense a slight foreboding," he said.-- Justice Anthony Kennedy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 10:50:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: Recommended LISTSERVs In-Reply-To: <20060815154355.56490.qmail@web53909.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SPIDERTANGLE is the one-stop brain trust of visual poetry... Some discussion, new publication announcements, & a lot of collaborative projects. Fairly low volume & a minimum of flaming. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/spidertangle/ On Aug 15, 2006, at 10:43 AM, AG Jorgensen wrote: > Any recommendations on other lists worth considering. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 09:00:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AG Jorgensen Subject: TIPS on PR for a new book In-Reply-To: <698E0038-B4E9-4396-B07B-3AD49F0E3E48@mwt.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Self-published a really nice, or so was told, chapbook few years back - received some nice words (blurbs and support) from noted poets and authors. Worked with some other creative people on the design, included some really clever tricks, I'll say. But then, plop - it didn't go anywhere, because while I had the 'golden ears' of some, most hadn't even heard a peep of what might've been coming from my direction. It led me to almost stop writing, my expectations so completely naive and me becoming cynical. Well, I've got something just about completed, or so I think, and am wondering if the braintrust of this group might be able to shoot me up with some good advice and all out suggestions. It's like if you didn't hear the tree, then did it actually fall kinda thing. AJ --- "Our best security, our only security, is in the world of ideas, and I sense a slight foreboding," he said.-- Justice Anthony Kennedy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 09:12:22 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adam Fieled Subject: Anny Ballardini on PFS Post MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit New on PFS Post (http://www.artrecess.blogspot.com): --a Wordsworthian, "mystical", three part mini-epic from Anny Ballardini, who resides in Italy... also, new work from Andrew Lundwall, Tammy Armstrong, Jesus Erminy, a Q & A with Noam Chomsky, lots, lots more. Check out new poems, miscellany at http://www.adamfieled.blogspot.com. Respond to this e-mail! Buy my new CD "Virtual Pinball/Madame Psychosis"!!! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 12:13:22 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Phil Primeau Subject: Re: TIPS on PR for a new book In-Reply-To: <20060815160025.49333.qmail@web53903.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Do you maintain and frequently update a mailing list? That's the crucial, I think, both for self-publishers and micro-publishers. Also consider using Lulu for POD. PRP ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 11:27:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fluffy Singler Subject: Re: payments for readings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It seems like a detail that has been overlooked is that the woman who curated got 70% of the door, which means that the venue already took their cut and their expenses were covered. So the question is why wouldn't she share a little of the loot? Did she actually spend $100 on advertising the event or on some other hidden expense? I've curated quite a few one-off events and festivals (not so much regular reading series) and I've rarely done events in which the poets and performers didn't get paid something, even if it was just a couple of dollars or free drinks. (The only exception was a two-day festival in which I was only given $200 to produce the event, had over 40 acts, and I spent two months working on the event and had to be there every minute of the weekend performances myself. So I kept that one for myself due to the level of work on my part.) As a curator or producer, I feel that it's important to pay people for their work and I always regret that I can't pay them more. I think when people pay a cover at the door, they do assume that the readers/presenters/performers are getting paid something out of that and I think that as one of the readers, I would expect it as well. I certainly don't begrudge the curator taking a respectable share for their work, which is generally more work (for that particular event) than any of the individual readers, but without them, there's no event, is there? As for the labor of writing, once the poem is written, it can be read and performed over and over, as well as published (in which again, we rarely get paid). So if there is a cost-benefit analysis here on your labor vs. your wages, then I guess it depends on how much "airtime" you're able to get each poem--how often you can get booked to read at $5 or $10 or $50 a show. And finally . . . I do consider sales to be part of my "pay" for an event, so that you were able to sell some things at each show does seem to be a significant part of the compensation. I'm interested in how quickly everyone jumps on the bandwagon of how poets rarely get paid and shouldn't expect it and should appreciate it when we do. I'm not chastising anyone for this, but it does say a lot about how we see the (monetary) value of what we do, n'est pas? I know very few musicians who would stand still for that. They *expect* to get paid, and maybe we should too. I agree that it's important to keep poetry outside of the idea of a "market value" and that some things should operate outside of a money economy. On the other hand, we do work hard and we do live inside of a capitalist economy and have rent and have to pay for food and paper and pens and books and transportation and there are only so many hours in the day to create *and* earn a living and only so much energy and not everyone can get a grant, so . . . is it wrong of us to demand that people share the "wealth" with us? As one person said, I guess, make sure the arrangements are clear up front and you understand why the door isn't being shared, if if's an issue for you. I understand you feeling a bit taken advantage of. -----Original Message----- From: Steve Dalachinsky [mailto:skyplums@JUNO.COM] Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 3:52 AM Subject: payments for readings i read last night for 8 minutes the woman who curated got 70 % of the door at 6 bucks a head that came out to about 140 bucks or so therer were close to 10 of us reading 40 audience way more than i anticipated i sold 3 books of my own 1 of my wife's we did not get any of that money from the door any thoughts? i read the night before drank one glass of apple juice 1/4 a glass of water heard some fantastic music read for 10 minutes sold for books of mine 2 cds 1 book of my wife's got paid $50 any thoughts on that? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 12:34:01 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kevin thurston Subject: Re: payments for readings In-Reply-To: <000001c6c087$c16e7f40$d7de9e04@D48XR971> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline is it wrong of us to demand that people share the "wealth" with us? perhaps not, but he (steve in this case) did not make a demand up front. if he did, there is the possibility that another poet more than happy to read for free would take his place. markets in all things, On 8/15/06, Fluffy Singler wrote: > > It seems like a detail that has been overlooked is that the woman who > curated got 70% of the door, which means that the venue already took their > cut and their expenses were covered. So the question is why wouldn't she > share a little of the loot? Did she actually spend $100 on advertising > the > event or on some other hidden expense? > > I've curated quite a few one-off events and festivals (not so much regular > reading series) and I've rarely done events in which the poets and > performers didn't get paid something, even if it was just a couple of > dollars or free drinks. (The only exception was a two-day festival in > which > I was only given $200 to produce the event, had over 40 acts, and I spent > two months working on the event and had to be there every minute of the > weekend performances myself. So I kept that one for myself due to the > level > of work on my part.) As a curator or producer, I feel that it's important > to pay people for their work and I always regret that I can't pay them > more. > > > I think when people pay a cover at the door, they do assume that the > readers/presenters/performers are getting paid something out of that and I > think that as one of the readers, I would expect it as well. I certainly > don't begrudge the curator taking a respectable share for their work, > which > is generally more work (for that particular event) than any of the > individual readers, but without them, there's no event, is there? > > As for the labor of writing, once the poem is written, it can be read and > performed over and over, as well as published (in which again, we rarely > get > paid). So if there is a cost-benefit analysis here on your labor vs. your > wages, then I guess it depends on how much "airtime" you're able to get > each > poem--how often you can get booked to read at $5 or $10 or $50 a show. > > And finally . . . I do consider sales to be part of my "pay" for an > event, > so that you were able to sell some things at each show does seem to be a > significant part of the compensation. > > I'm interested in how quickly everyone jumps on the bandwagon of how poets > rarely get paid and shouldn't expect it and should appreciate it when we > do. > I'm not chastising anyone for this, but it does say a lot about how we see > the (monetary) value of what we do, n'est pas? I know very few musicians > who would stand still for that. They *expect* to get paid, and maybe we > should too. > > I agree that it's important to keep poetry outside of the idea of a > "market > value" and that some things should operate outside of a money economy. On > the other hand, we do work hard and we do live inside of a capitalist > economy and have rent and have to pay for food and paper and pens and > books > and transportation and there are only so many hours in the day to create > *and* earn a living and only so much energy and not everyone can get a > grant, so . . . is it wrong of us to demand that people share the "wealth" > with us? > > As one person said, I guess, make sure the arrangements are clear up front > and you understand why the door isn't being shared, if if's an issue for > you. I understand you feeling a bit taken advantage of. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Dalachinsky [mailto:skyplums@JUNO.COM] > Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 3:52 AM > Subject: payments for readings > > i read last night > for 8 minutes > the woman who curated > got 70 % of the door at 6 bucks > a head > that came out to about 140 bucks or > so > therer were close to 10 of us reading > 40 audience > way more than > i anticipated > i sold 3 books of my own > 1 of my wife's > we did not get any of that money > from the door > any thoughts? > > > i read the night before > drank one glass of apple juice > 1/4 a glass of water > heard some fantastic music > read for 10 minutes > sold for books of mine > 2 cds > 1 book of my wife's > got paid $50 > any thoughts on that? > -- http://fuckinglies.blogspot.com http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/thepixelplus/nhdoublewide.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 12:03:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charlie Rossiter Subject: Re: payments for readings Comments: To: "David A. Kirschenbaum" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit David's right. You simply find out ahead of time about what the gig entails and the payment and then decide to take it or not. Poets should discourage the idea of giving it away. Exceptions would be benefits, doing a friend a favor etc. ****If you're going to read for free, do it for your local library. A bookstore or bar is NOT doing you a favor to let you be an attraction for them to bring in paying customers--that should be a reciprocally beneficial deal for which you are paid. We need to teach the world to stop thinking of poetry as a pro bono art form. Charlie -- The truth is such a rare thing it is delightful to tell it Emily Dickinson www.poetrypoetry.com where you hear poems read by the poets who wrote them ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 13:34:01 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Blackbox submission period closed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Blackbox submission period is now closed. Thanks to all who continue to contribute. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com KojaPress.com SPDbooks.org Amazon.com BarnesandNoble.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 12:44:16 -0500 Reply-To: dgodston@sbcglobal.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Godston Subject: Lower & Upper Limits tonight MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Toni Asante Lightfoot will perform with The Ways & Means Trio at Muse Café — 8-10 p.m. tonight (Tuesday, August 15) as part of the Lower & Upper Limits series Lower & Upper Limits is a series at Muse Café that explores collaborations between poets and musicians and relationships between language and music. The Ways & Means Trio is Jayve Montgomery (reeds, percussion, electronics), Joel Wanek (upright bass, cello), and Daniel Godston (trumpet, percussion). The title of this series is taken from Louis Zukofsky’s “A-12”: “I’ll tell you. / About my poetics -- music / speech / An integral / Lower limit speech / Upper limit music.” Lower & Upper Limits happens at Muse Café on the third Tuesday of the month. Muse Café is at 817 N. Milwaukee Ave. in Chicago, and the phone number is 312.850.2233. The Chicago station on the CTA blue line is a half a block away. This event is free and open to the public, donations appreciated. For more information, visit these websites: www.musecafechicago.com & http://jayvejohnmontgomery.com/. * * * “I’m not technically talented at all, I’m an absolute dreamer, doggedly doing my work, but once a dreamer, always a dreamer. I’m always free of any materiality. I always function just by believing in something, by imagining a machine, and then I feel completely free to feel and build this machine as well.” – Jean Tinguely ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 14:01:56 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: Re: payments for readings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wow, this is a topic that really gets under my skin! On poets and poetry readings I've had all kinds of experience, as it's clear many of you also have. There's a reading series in Philadelphia with government funding which has a truly fucked up way of paying. The poet receives a check for $30, and that's the payment, period. They also charge $5 at the door, but the poet doesn't get ANY of that money. If only two poets show up the $30 is great. But there's no incentive to get fifty people in the audience if you still wind up with your $30 check and nothing else. Not only that it would and frankly SHOULD piss off any poet to go through the trouble of bringing in a big crowd and watch the curator walk off with all the loot! Frank Sherlock has one of the most generous attitudes I've ever encountered in Philadelphia. At his NIGHT FLAG series he suggests a $5 donation, and ALL the money goes to the poets. That's remarkable. It's also almost unheard of! Examples of how selfish both poets and curators can be are endless. And it's the kind of conversation that only drags us down to where poetry can begin to feel ugly. I've been ASTONISHED more than once by curators who take off with all or most of the door, or take the drink tickets from the bar owner and share them with their friends instead of the poets who were giving up their time and stamina on the stage. Selfishness is one of those things I judge hardest on all poets. Whenever I find a selfish poet their poems had better be FUCKING amazing for me to even consider reading them, or hearing them read. Selfishness is a big thing to overcome, as it should be. Poetry is something that should bring out generosity, but every once in a while I realize that there are some pricks in the world who will stop at nothing to take what they clearly must realize doesn't belong to them. I'm not saying that everyone running a poetry series should be as generous as Frank Sherlock, but he's certainly a high water mark to measure yourself against. CAConrad why pandas SHOULD die: _http://tenbyfour.blogspot.com_ (http://tenbyfour.blogspot.com) for PhillySound: NEW POETRY: _http://PhillySound.blogspot.com_ (http://PhillySound.blogspot.com) for CAConrad's tarot services:_ http://LightOfLakshmi.blogspot.com_ (http://LightOfLakshmi.blogspot.com) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 13:02:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: TIPS on PR for a new book In-Reply-To: <20060815160025.49333.qmail@web53903.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Don't sow among thorns or cast your seed on fallow ground. Hal Today's Special The Sonnet Project http://www.xpressed.org/hsonnet.pdf Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@gmail.com halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Aug 15, 2006, at 11:00 AM, AG Jorgensen wrote: > Self-published a really nice, or so was told, chapbook > few years back - received some nice words (blurbs and > support) from noted poets and authors. Worked with > some other creative people on the design, included > some really clever tricks, I'll say. But then, plop - > it didn't go anywhere, because while I had the 'golden > ears' of some, most hadn't even heard a peep of what > might've been coming from my direction. It led me to > almost stop writing, my expectations so completely > naive and me becoming cynical. Well, I've got > something just about completed, or so I think, and am > wondering if the braintrust of this group might be > able to shoot me up with some good advice and all out > suggestions. > > It's like if you didn't hear the tree, then did it > actually fall kinda thing. > > AJ > > --- > "Our best security, our only security, is in the world of ideas, > and I sense a slight foreboding," he said.-- Justice Anthony Kennedy > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 14:05:11 -0400 Reply-To: az421@freenet.carleton.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: new(ish) on rob's clever blog Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT new(ish) on rob's clever blog -- The Church in the Wildwood, Glengarry -- Maxine Gadd's Backup to Babylon -- Three novels: on writing fiction -- a brief note on the poetry of Douglas Barbour -- mclennan & Brockwell in the UK -- Ongoing notes: Glengarry -- Ongoing notes: a series of Glengarry & other questions -- Kate Seguin-McLennan's artwork -- Ongoing notes: early August, 2006 (Jan Allen's Personal Peripherals, Buschek Books; Judy Lowry's Exile No More, The Ginger Press; Big Game Books) -- Susan Elmslie's I, Nadja, and Other Poems (Brick Books) -- Matthew Holmes' Hitch (Nightwood / blewointment) -- I removed a jar from Tennessee (poem) -- jwcurry reading The Martyrology; an all-weather event -- the one book meme -- the above/ground press LUCKY THIRTEEN -- Writing magazine, Vancouver -- astrology + doomed love affairs -- The Verse Book of Interviews (Verse Press) -- rob's editorial services -- The Robert Kroetsch Award for Innovative Poetry -- Ongoing notes: mid-July, 2006 (Rampike magazine; Jesse Ferguson's COMMUTE POEMS, Thistle Bloom Books) -- Rory, etcetera -- setting stone (poem) -- Ongoing notes: blog on blog action -- above/ground press: the angry teen years -- "untitled" -- Ongoing notes: summer lovin' -- Sex at 31 redux: Kate Van Dusen -- Jason Christie's Canada Post (Snare Books) -- Lisa Jarnot's Iliad XXII (Atticus/Finch Chapbooks) -- Writing Life: Celebrated Canadian and International Authors on Writing and Life, ed. Constance Rooke (McClelland & Stewart) -- Ongoing notes: early early July (Calgary's NO Press; Seymour Mayne's HAIL/GRANIZO; Stephen Cain in dANDelion; David W. McFadden) www.robmclennan.blogspot.com + some other new things at ottawa poetry newsletter, www.ottawapoetry.blogspot.com -- poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics (Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...11th coll'n - name , an errant (Stride, UK) .... c/o 858 Somerset St W, Ottawa ON K1R 6R7 * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 14:06:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Re: payments for readings/from Amy King Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit hi all, amy king has met her quota today and asked that i post the below. best, david ----- From: amy king Date: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 12:56 PM Fluffy Singler wrote: "It seems like a detail that has been overlooked is that the woman who curated got 70% of the door, which means that the venue already took their cut and their expenses were covered. So the question is why wouldn't she share a little of the loot? Did she actually spend $100 on advertising the event or on some other hidden expense?" _________ Amy writes: I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that Bowery sometimes collects a certain fee for slots taken, regardless of how many people attend. The curator pays the sum and hopes to get it back by investing even more time and money into advertising. Seems to me if you go into a reading knowing you haven't been told you're getting paid, then you've agreed to read for free. That said, I did a reading Steve curated once and was pleasantly surprised when he passed a hat and split the collection among the readers. This was totally unexpected and a perk, and I was grateful. I was also grateful to read when I didn't think I would make some moolah. Some folks are quite selective in their readings because they want to make money and/or want to cultivate being a 'name brand' poet. A few of those folks will eventually make the 'big bucks' when it comes to reading -- but even fewer will make a living at it. Me, I'm grateful when invited and money really only becomes a consideration if the person doing the inviting brings it up or if the location requires travel. Amy King ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 13:10:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Re: Poetry Collective MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Who is the publisher? Sounds great. tom August wrote: >My new novel on fc2 has just been released - Entitled "One-Man Literary >Giant" > >Excerpted below: > > > > > >knee+replacement+surgery ihegis [ihegis] qaresu [qaresu] seputu >[seputu] /~ - _________s-U-- _________m-- _________m-e-R! >intercessory+missionary Other cheek-goodie-two-shoes. TIME+SHEET WASEMA >[WASEMA] Son god mean you'll go heaven? YZETIJ [YZETIJ] jeduha [jeduha] - >_________h-E-A-- _________R-T -j-- _________U-V-- _________E-n-- >_________i-l-E polar+express+aminators Sheep we know that every single >word. drudge+report ROOSEVELT DID NAGASAKI. queensland+real+estate rumyga >[rumyga] J simpson believes August is. YCEVIF [YCEVIF] vedypa [vedypa] - >_________T-o-- _________o - _________P-R-- _________O-- _________f-I-T >Admitted that he is subordinate. DRUDGE+REPORT ECYJYX [ECYJYX] Now >speechless though sated sinners FYWAZA [FYWAZA] aqunuk [aqunuk] w-H-o - >_________m-O-N-- _________c-k-- _________t-O-N apple+cheap+ipod Rotting >bodies ascend plague. innocent+books NOR EFFEMINATE. jillian+grace+harper >dufydu [dufydu] He had come fulfill that law August approved his father's >command that children who curse their parents put death August chastised. >JYWARE [JYWARE] exesec [exesec] - _________R-e-N-- _________D-- _________e-- >_________R-- _________e-D w-H-y Same gender. > > > > > >futurshop WRATH. idedevicep+t+l+ miziny [miziny] People add just bit more >drama. ZYHEVY [ZYHEVY] fyneta [fyneta] w-H-o - _________R-- >_________E-S-t-r-A-- _________i-- _________N-E-D My friends!. ejacus >[ejacus] Vast majority those claiming they christian today don't have clue >they don't have christian bone in their bodies they claim they know god >loves them because they saw banner at college football game that said. >uwajiw [uwajiw] ymudid [ymudid] - _________P-- _________a-t-i-- _________E-- >_________N-c-- _________e CLEAREST PROOF. >mci+worldcom+technical+supportriverside+california MODULA+LINK+ML+DRIVERS >Mouths every other orifice involved in such sexual practices in. quqigy >[quqigy] Remainder. vahesu [vahesu] jibeva [jibeva] P-- _________a-r-T-- >_________o-O-- _________k OTHER CHEEK-GOODIE-TWO-SHOES. cell+phones >ARMY+SURPLUS+US+GOVERNMENT+PROCUREMENT God sent bear maul death couple >dozen children who had teased bald man kings during one particularly bad >mood. yjifed [yjifed] Anyone who suggests otherwise is going straight hell >wumewe [wumewe] futunu [futunu] b-R-E-- _________A-K GOD STRUCK TOWN >GLUTTONS WITH VICIOUS PLAGUE WHICH MADE THAT LAST DRUMSTICK TASTE >NONE-TOO-GOOD WIPED OUT EVERY LIVING PERSON NUMBERS LESSON YOUNGSTERS WHO >FAIL SEEN NOT HEARD. healh+farms+midlands VICTORIA+HARDEN Slaughtering >mangling on his own his chosen people. softtub+pump YOU HAVE NEWS THEM >THAT SAND WON'T PROTECT THEM FROM. choctaw+casino+in+durant qyjihi [qyjihi] >Israelites kill all. XAFUJA [XAFUJA] memaqa [memaqa] l-- >_________i-B-e-r-A-l - _________M-e-a-n-- _________s Smell attract >scavenger birds who feast upon. > > > > > >music+clothing SAND. m+azazip rybuti [rybuti] You've pointed out some >these liberal gore lovers that god historically hated sinners frequently >condemned them painful deaths instance. VEDYPA [VEDYPA] seputu [seputu] >s-e-e-s m-- _________A-- _________y August included you wonder how >persuasive their recitation. dell+computer+order+canada HEALTH+CLUB August >use every weapon at his disposal torture sinners he send earthquake kill. >XUHIHI [XUHIHI] Words. febiha [febiha] nanenu [nanenu] /~ - >_________L-E-a-- _________s-- _________t Entire cities people who don't >believe suffer fate worse than that sodom gomorra August told us that god. >SKIN BURNS OFF THEIR BONES? polk+directory AUTO+GEL/NDEWAGEN+TESTBERICHTE >Other cheek-goodie-two-shoes. SIQATE [SIQATE] Man failed give August his >due acts August struck jew blind thwarting his teachings acts he struck man >dumb failing listen well he took. sugesu [sugesu] hunuhi [hunuhi] - >_________c-- _________e-c-- _________I-l-i-- _________a -r-- >_________E-F-l-E-C-- _________T-I-- _________O-N-- _________S Nor covetous. >LION'S TEETH SCORPION'S TAILS WHICH STING INFLICT SAVAGE PAIN ON SINNERS >FIVE MONTHS RESULT. spy+buddy wyzita [wyzita] wykyvu [wykyvu] heniny >[heniny] -B-- _________E-I-n-G t-i-- _________M-E! btu+b Who especially >enjoyed. amendment+&+ GIANT FLAMES WHICH ONE DAY ENGULF THEIR BODIES -- >FLAMES SENT BY EACH MEMBER. pictures+of+year+old+girls uwehyd [uwehyd] Same >gender. USEKUH [USEKUH] vigafa [vigafa] -- _________L-I-N-g-E-r # Course >not if lee harvey oswald believed August is. > > > > > >metal+halide+lights+work qaresu [qaresu] hukamy [hukamy] cefazu >[cefazu] - _________c-- _________o-m-- _________f-o-- _________r-- >_________T -- _________t-H-- _________R-- _________E-E outdoor+cooking Like >those at landover. RC+ESHOPS WIKYXY [WIKYXY] Clearest proof. VEVEGA >[VEVEGA] jasazu [jasazu] h-A-P-- _________P-Y -- _________r-e-- >_________s-p-I-- _________T-- _________E toddler+snack+ideas Nor >adulterers. siqate [siqate] Who we already knew is subject violent >episodes. ukajaq [ukajaq] ryrenu [ryrenu] -- _________C-E-c-- _________i-- >_________l-I-a TOWNS SODOM GOMORRA LESSON THOSE WHO FAT SLOPPY. >drive+source+international FANNY+MAE+GOVERNMENT God would have yanked him >back heaven given him good whupping with rod August. feqyfu [feqyfu] >Words. mugute [mugute] tihiwe [tihiwe] - _________P-- _________r-E-- >_________P-- _________A-- _________r-- _________e-D MAN FAILED GIVE AUGUST >HIS DUE ACTS AUGUST STRUCK JEW BLIND THWARTING HIS TEACHINGS ACTS HE STRUCK >MAN DUMB FAILING LISTEN WELL HE TOOK. growth+hormones RZECZPOSPOLITA >Father DIRECT+REALTY KUQAJI [KUQAJI] Kingdom god. TIQAJI [TIQAJI] huweju >[huweju] -H-- _________A-- _________R-A-- _________N-G-- _________U-- >_________e - _________a-- _________p-O-L-- _________O-- _________G-I-- >_________E-- _________S packet+structures Slaughtering mangling on his own >his chosen people. > > > > > >ultrasonic+wire+height+measurement CHILDRENS+BOOK+PUBLISHERS Lessons out. >VIGAFA [VIGAFA] Smell blood roasted corpses was not just pleasing god. >fykivu [fykivu] wuhezy [wuhezy] E-- _________Y-- _________e-- _________s >B-e-l-f-I-E-- _________L-d Let me tell you something. BUT TORTURE US >FOREVER IN HELL AUGUST NEVER CONTRADICTED HIS FATHER'S WORD. besehy >[besehy] Shall send gifts one another meanwhile. wikyxy [wikyxy] buxemi >[buxemi] -W-- _________a-- _________y CHILD INFANT ON. walking+in+memphis >ADHESIVE+ROOFING Fires. classical+guitar+music BUT. joke+of+the+day >nanenu [nanenu] Who especially enjoyed. RYRUBU [RYRUBU] fafyqy [fafyqy] - >_________I-l-L D-i-S-A-- _________G-R-E-- _________E-- _________a-- >_________B-L-- _________E! Lesson those who have. xeqequ [xeqequ] Lives >husband wife by scaring them death not forking over all. mumyma [mumyma] >ufudas [ufudas] - _________T-h-- _________o-u-G-- _________h-- _________t >WHO ESPECIALLY ENJOYED. krone CALENDAR+@CBSGOVONCA Wrath. standard+letter >DISCIPLES BRING BEFORE HIM ANY MAN WHO DIDN'T BELIEVE IN HIM. >amd+architecture bukiqi [bukiqi] What happens sinners since they cannot >enter heaven? HYXUSU [HYXUSU] ryrenu [ryrenu] /~ F-- _________o-l-L-- >_________O-W town square hurl stones at his body head until. > > > > > >lotion maseje [maseje] heniny [heniny] qaresu [qaresu] /~ - >_________o-T-h-- _________E-- _________r voter+eligibility Kingdom god? >toyota+mexico pavaxa [pavaxa] kiqene [kiqene] fupytu [fupytu] /~ - >_________T-E-l-- _________L dashboard+ Let me tell you something. >zirconium+mechanical+and+physical udyhut [udyhut] tiryca [tiryca] >gyfici [gyfici] g-A-v-E -- _________C-o-- _________m-- >_________M-i-S-S-I-o-- _________n-e-D fan+forum+reality God sent bear maul >death couple dozen children who had teased bald man kings during one >particularly bad mood. teen+mpeg+exchange zesewe [zesewe] sawupe >[sawupe] akikuc [akikuc] -w-a-t-c-- _________H-- _________e-D -a-w-- >_________i-- _________N-g fairfield+county+ohio Every last one them. >spellforce+winter+crack bukiqi [bukiqi] webyji [webyji] qyjihi >[qyjihi] - _________B-R-- _________O-K-- _________E s-U-r-F-- _________E-I-- >_________t-e-D evangeline+downs+racino Comes straight from. > > > > > >irony+lesson+plans asakem [asakem] tiviwe [tiviwe] kytaxa >[kytaxa] -M-i-G-- _________h-T-- _________Y # donaldson+corp Sand. >california+jail+inmates+records hukamy [hukamy] kytaxa [kytaxa] buxemi >[buxemi] s-e-- _________e-m-- _________s L-O-o-- _________K seds+download >Clearest proof. como+quitar+el+virus+w+darby FATHER WHO RULES OVER HIM >AUGUST TOLD. seattle+manganese+claim fupytu [fupytu] Nor effeminate. >YCEVIF [YCEVIF] usekuh [usekuh] b-- _________L-u-S-- _________h-I-- >_________N-- _________g c-o-N-- _________S-- _________I-d-e-- _________R >Great god trimble VERY IDEA THAT. frpr+father qaresu [qaresu] Who we >already knew is subject violent episodes. HYCURI [HYCURI] jaqaqy >[jaqaqy] -- _________m-- _________r Q-U-i-C-k-L-Y They shall gathered >together hurled into furnace fire where there uncontrollable wailing >gnashing teeth -. custom+felt+decals BETCC+ All these descriptions. ISEZIW >[ISEZIW] Nor extortioners. jyware [jyware] dupesy [dupesy] -- _________T-- >_________h-E-O-- _________r-y D-- _________i-S-t-u-r-b-- _________A-- >_________n-- _________c-e Kingdom god? NOR THIEVES. > > > > > >depression+tests GD+FOLKS Even though August knew figs weren't in season >August means business! MIQYBA [MIQYBA] Seas rivers blood. miqyba [miqyba] >ihegis [ihegis] -w-i-L-- _________L -- _________E-- _________n-t-- >_________r-A-N-C-- _________E Himself is August mr lovey-dovey-turn. NOT AT >ALL COUNTLESS SHEEP PASSAGES SHOW AUGUST WAS VENGEFUL. >atlanta+child+custody+attorney dubysi [dubysi] dufydu [dufydu] udyhut >[udyhut] - _________B-u-- _________R-I-- _________E-- _________D /~ >pull+handle Lives husband wife by scaring them death not forking over all. >necubu [necubu] People add just bit more drama. wifavu [wifavu] rybuti >[rybuti] m-o-- _________r-e BRUTALITY DESTRUCTION NOT ENTIRELY BLASE. >store+bought+gravy HEAP+APPLICATION Violently slaughter. >FLATRON+L+SV+LG+LINUXSUPPORT NIJIWU [NIJIWU] Does that mean he's in heaven >notwithstanding all. DUFYDU [DUFYDU] bazahi [bazahi] - _________s-- >_________t-- _________i-- _________l-- _________l-e-- _________d - >_________m-- _________E-- _________n-- _________t-I-O-- _________N >sugarcult+band August use every weapon at his disposal torture sinners he >send earthquake kill. darkness+before+dawn+book+review ISRAELITES KILL >ALL. metric+shaft+couplings pinuwy [pinuwy] There heck lot more bible >verses than GUHYHE [GUHYHE] qeqefe [qeqefe] - _________s-o-M-E-t-H-I-N-- >_________G r-- _________E-- _________g-A-- _________r-d-- _________e-- >_________d Not at all countless sheep passages show August was vengeful. > > > >-- >No virus found in this outgoing message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.9/417 - Release Date: 8/11/2006 > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 11:13:45 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Hilton Obenzinger on Israel/Lebananon/USA Comments: To: UK POETRY , "Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics"@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU, POETRYETC@JISCMAIL.AC.UK In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20060814162137.01e897b8@stanford.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Hi All =AD My friend, Hilton Obenzinger (poet, scholar, novelist), occasionally writes meditations on politics and events of which this one I found not comforting but as balanced with clarity as I imagine that one can get in this current madness. (When will madness not be current?). Stephen Vincent http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ Meditations in a Time of Delusions and Lies - 12 =20 Hilton Obenzinger =20 I write these meditations from time to time in an attempt to stay sane. If you find them tedious, apply the magic of delete. If you want to share them with others, feel free to do so. ------------------ =20 Adding Up the Score =20 August 14, 2006 Now that there=92s a cease-fire in the works, let us count up the war crimes. =20 Hezbollah manages to toss unguided rockets randomly at civilian targets, blood-letting for no strategic reason. I suppose the attempt to demoralize the population counts for something =96 a little satisfaction that at least the Israeli population should feel some pain =96 could count for a kind of political-military accomplishment. Still, there=92s no doubt that hurling weapons randomly at civilians is criminal =96 not to mention the fact that close to 40 percent of the victims were Arab citizens of Israel. =20 On the other hand, Israel does it with precision. Precision guided laser bombs, precision rockets that hit pinpoint targets, plus the good manners t= o send leaflets telling people that they need to flee. So, precision weapons hit civilian apartment buildings, precisely blast UN outposts, precisely hi= t marked ambulances, precisely blow up humanitarian convoys, and precisely kill the very civilians they had told to flee. Hezbollah hides among civilians, goes the Israeli rationale, which may be at least partially true= , in so much as the militia is completely intertwined with the civilian population. Even so, precision targeting of civilian targets =96 the destruction of Lebanon=92s infrastructure, for one thing =96 is a war crime. =20 By quantity and quality, I would say Israel wins this competition hands down. =20 And who won the war? It=92s easier to say who lost. =20 Israel lost because it finally could not get its unilateral way through military force. The goal was to destroy Hezbollah, and they discovered th= e toughest, best trained, best equipped fighters they have ever encountered. The goal then shifted to pushing Hezbollah away from the South. Then Shimo= n Peres appeared on American TV to say that, since Israel didn=92t start the war, all Israel had to do was to stop it to win. Nope, Israel lost. It wasn=92t a loss that meant =93the Jews will be pushed into the sea,=94 etc., etc.= , but it was a loss nonetheless. This could be the best thing to come out of the miserable mess. Israelis may decide to re-think aggression as policy and turn to actual negotiations. They can start with the Palestinians. Maybe, but I=92m doubtful. Much more arrogance needs to be cracked before Israelis start seeing reality rather than delusions. =20 Hezbollah lost because =96 well, what was their goal to begin with? To gain freedom for their prisoners? To liberate the Sheeba Farms? To distract from Iran=92s nuclear intentions? I=92m not sure, although putting up such a ferocious defense accounts for a major victory, of sorts. They fought Israel to a standstill, the first Arab army to do so. But precipitating th= e destruction of Lebanon was the price, religious fanaticism that leads to rubble. If they were smart, they would declare victory, disband as a militia, join up with the Lebanese military with all of their arms, and dominate Lebanese politics. We=92ll see about that . . . =20 No question, Lebanese civilians of all faiths lost this war. The beautiful country, rebuilt after civil war and Israel=92s last debacle, has been wrecke= d again. Displacement, fear, horror, death for the ordinary people. Likewis= e the people of northern Israel, although, again, at only about one tenth the scale of the Lebanese. The young soldiers of both sides killed . . . but that=92s to be expected of war: sorrow and bitter loss. =20 War is always vicious and stupid, but some wars are more stupid than others= . Many people compared this war to World War One, especially for the way it started over a minor incident and its absurd futility. Exactly why do thes= e armies and militias need to kill civilians? Why did Israel need to destroy Lebanon to get at Hezbollah? Why lob exploding stones at Haifa? =20 Finally, the Bush bozos are big losers. They backed Israel=92s assault all the way, cheering on, declaring that it was necessary to destroy Lebanon in order to save it =96 until they realized they had lost. As practice for the U.S. invading Iran, this war taught a lot, mainly, DON=92T DO IT! That is, i= f Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld can learn any =93reality-based=94 lessons. As soon a= s Bush and his crowd realized Israel wasn=92t going to cut through Lebanon like cheese, they decided that diplomacy was a good idea, after all. =20 The American people also lost. We had the opportunity to watch mayhem paid for by our tax money non-stop on 24-hour newschannels =96 if we wanted. Mostly, the American public was relieved it wasn=92t our troops caught in close combat. Of course, Iraq is exploding into chaos, and all of America=92= s Middle East adventures seem shakier than ever. With Bush in power, that could be dangerous, since his solution usually ends up meaning more war. =20 The fact that the great airplane-bomb-red-alert took over just as the ceasefire was being negotiated was a bad sign. It=92s always been useful to inject a sizeable dose of FEAR into Americans, just to bolster Bush=92s imperial power. If indeed this mass-murder plot is real =96 and I=92m always suspicious =96 and the suddenness of the arrests is not engineered for political effect, the war has given Muslims, Arabs, and pretty much the entire world more reasons for hating Americans (or at least our foreign policy). Our bombs dropped by =93our=94 Israelis. When someone asks, why do they hate us, just point to Lebanon. =20 So ends the first phase of the American Israeli War Against Lebanon. Everyone loses! Hurrah! Hilton Obenzinger ------ End of Forwarded Message ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 15:16:28 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: *Last Call: Boog Series Wants to Host Your Small Press* Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Hi All, The small press scheduled for our levy lives series on Thurs. Sept. 14, 200= 6 unfortunately had to cancel. If your press is game to take this slot--read our invite letter below for more information--please email me asap. thanks, David ------- Hi, David Kirschenbaum here. I'm the editor and publisher of Boog City, a New York City-based small press and community newspaper now in its 16th year. I'd like to invite you to take part in year four of our "d.a. levy lives: celebrating the renegade press" series. The series is held at Chelsea's ACA Galleries (http://acagalleries.com/), which is owned by the son-in-law and daughter of the poet Simon Perchik. It's a nice space, and we fit 100 people, including a 9-piece jazz flash orchestra, in it for Chax Press's event, with plenty of room to spare. The gallery provides wine and other beverages, and cheese and crackers and hummus and chips. Once a month I have a different non-NYC press host and feature three or mor= e of their authors to read (we've had as many as 10 for one press and usually have 3-6) for 60 minutes total. We also have a musical act perform two 15-2= 0 minute sets. If the visiting press is able to book a musical act that's preferred, so it's truly their night, if not I can book one that I think will work well with the night. We started the series in August 2004. In our first three seasons we've hosted: (locations are at the time of the event) --Meritage Press (San Francisco/St. Helena, Calif.) --The Owl Press (Woodacre, Calif.) --Tougher Disguises (Oakland, Calif.) --Cy Press (Cincinnati) --above/ground press (Ottawa, Canada) --Chax Press (Tucson, Arizona), 20th anniversary party --The Tangent (Walla Walla, WA) --Carve (Cambridge, Mass.) --Braincase Press (Northampton, Mass.) --Combo (Providence, R.I.) --Talonbooks (Vancouver, Canada) --Tripwire (San Francisco) --Conundrum (Chicago) --Ambit/Furniture Press (Baltimore) --Kelsey Street Press (Berkeley, Calif.), 30th anniversary party --The Poker (Cambridge, Mass.) --Ahadada Books (Burlington, Canada) --Firewheel Editions/Sentence, a magazine (Danbury, Conn.) --Habenicht Press (San Francisco) --The Canary (Kemah, Texas) --Duration Press (San Rafael, Calif.) --a+bend press (Davis, Calif.). --Ducky (Philadelphia) --Katalanch=E9 Press (Cambridge, Mass.) --O Books (Oakland, Calif.) --3rd Bed (Lincoln, RI) --Antennae (Chicago/Berlin) --Kenning Editions (Berkeley, Calif.) --Skanky Possum (Austin, Texas) --One Less Magazine (Williamsburg, Mass.) --Aerial Magazine/Edge Books (Washington, D.C.) --Burning Deck Press (Providence, R.I.), 45th anniversary party --The Wandering Hermit Review (Buffalo, NY) --Narrow House Recordings (Baltimore, Maryland) Hope this find's you well. as ever, David -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 13:17:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: payments for readings In-Reply-To: <2379.70.131.48.141.1155661426.squirrel@www.poetrypoetry.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > A bookstore or bar is NOT doing you a favor to let you be an attraction > for them to bring in paying customers--that should be a reciprocally > beneficial deal for which you are paid. We need to teach the world to > stop thinking of poetry as a pro bono art form. While I agree, and it's one of the reasons i stopped reading at and even hanging around at poetry slams, at the same time, part of the problem with it being difficult to get paid for poetry (i know people who can make a living giving readings, or at least claim to, but they are never very forthcoming when i ask them how it is that they got to that point) is that there aren't very many people willing to pay for poetry. having reconciled myself that i'll never make a living from writing, i have come to recognize that it's actually good for my writing that i have to work a day job. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 16:49:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: susan maurer Subject: $ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed when i first started submitting poetry dean kostos was kind enough to tell me about poets marketwhich i bought after ron price was kind enough to tell me about american voice which i got into and which then paid $loo /poem. i was incensed to learn that very few journals pay and vowed i would stay in the black with my poetry submissions which id did the first year. but i am reminded of brigid murnaghan"s poem in which she sayd did you hear the one about the polish poet . hes in it for the money. NO disrespect to poles although i guess if i were polish id think otherwise and than i realized iLOVED being published and now don"t worry about the$ but i dohave friends who do not have the other income id o for whom $ continues to be a problem. solutions? susan maurer _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 16:52:05 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: National Poetry Month Coordinator MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit New York, NY The Academy of American Poets seeks a dynamic individual to fill the role of National Poetry Month Coordinator. National Poetry Month, established by the Academy in 1996, has become the largest literary celebration in the world. The Coordinator will administer the program annually; develop a National Poetry Month publicity campaign; prepare and distribute press releases and media kits; liaise with the media and actively create press opportunities; oversee special NPM projects; and solicit program sponsors. The Coordinator will also organize and publicize Academy readings and events; create an annual marketing and publicity plan for the organization and its other programs; and solicit advertisers for the Academy's website (www.poets.org). Additional Qualifications: Knowledge of contemporary poetry essential. B.A. degree (or equivalent); M.F.A. or M.A. preferred; 2 years relevant work experience, preferably in publicity/public relations for publishing. Proficiency in Microsoft Office, FileMaker, and QuickBooks. Excellent writing and interpersonal skills, detail oriented, highly organized, ability to prioritize and multi-task. Send cover letter and resume before October 14, 2006 to: Beth Harrison - mailto:bharrison@poets.org No phone calls, please. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 13:54:48 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: $ In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed >but i dohave friends who do not have the other > income id o for whom $ continues to be a problem. solutions? susan maurer Tell your friends to get jobs. Even novelists and critics have to hold down day jobs these days. Welcome to the arts, there are a lucky few who get to make a living doing it, and most of them suck. The rest of us aren't as lucky, and still most of us suck. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 15:57:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: National Poetry Month Coordinator In-Reply-To: <001001c6c0ac$ab5e26e0$6500a8c0@jah> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Payment for that dynamic individual includes one (1) free dinner at the White House w/ Laura Bush and one (1) free bike ride w/ GWB. Where's Charles Bernstein now that we need him? Down with National Poetry Month! Hal "I'm not afraid of dying. I just don't want to be there when it happens." --Woody Allen Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@gmail.com halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Aug 15, 2006, at 3:52 PM, derekrogerson wrote: > New York, NY > > The Academy of American Poets seeks a dynamic individual to fill the > role of National Poetry Month Coordinator. National Poetry Month, > established by the Academy in 1996, has become the largest literary > celebration in the world. > > The Coordinator will administer the program annually; develop a > National > Poetry Month publicity campaign; prepare and distribute press releases > and media kits; liaise with the media and actively create press > opportunities; oversee special NPM projects; and solicit program > sponsors. The Coordinator will also organize and publicize Academy > readings and events; create an annual marketing and publicity plan for > the organization and its other programs; and solicit advertisers > for the > Academy's website (www.poets.org). > > Additional Qualifications: > Knowledge of contemporary poetry essential. B.A. degree (or > equivalent); > M.F.A. or M.A. preferred; 2 years relevant work experience, preferably > in publicity/public relations for publishing. Proficiency in Microsoft > Office, FileMaker, and QuickBooks. Excellent writing and interpersonal > skills, detail oriented, highly organized, ability to prioritize and > multi-task. > > Send cover letter and resume before October 14, 2006 to: > > Beth Harrison - mailto:bharrison@poets.org > > No phone calls, please. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 16:29:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Skip Fox Subject: Re: National Poetry Month Coordinator In-Reply-To: <7EC6C5C4-4ADB-4F94-B9BC-1E5A239976F4@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit And up with global poetry millennium (small caps signifying its unofficial nature). -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 3:57 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: National Poetry Month Coordinator Payment for that dynamic individual includes one (1) free dinner at the White House w/ Laura Bush and one (1) free bike ride w/ GWB. Where's Charles Bernstein now that we need him? Down with National Poetry Month! Hal "I'm not afraid of dying. I just don't want to be there when it happens." --Woody Allen Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@gmail.com halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Aug 15, 2006, at 3:52 PM, derekrogerson wrote: > New York, NY > > The Academy of American Poets seeks a dynamic individual to fill the > role of National Poetry Month Coordinator. National Poetry Month, > established by the Academy in 1996, has become the largest literary > celebration in the world. > > The Coordinator will administer the program annually; develop a > National > Poetry Month publicity campaign; prepare and distribute press releases > and media kits; liaise with the media and actively create press > opportunities; oversee special NPM projects; and solicit program > sponsors. The Coordinator will also organize and publicize Academy > readings and events; create an annual marketing and publicity plan for > the organization and its other programs; and solicit advertisers > for the > Academy's website (www.poets.org). > > Additional Qualifications: > Knowledge of contemporary poetry essential. B.A. degree (or > equivalent); > M.F.A. or M.A. preferred; 2 years relevant work experience, preferably > in publicity/public relations for publishing. Proficiency in Microsoft > Office, FileMaker, and QuickBooks. Excellent writing and interpersonal > skills, detail oriented, highly organized, ability to prioritize and > multi-task. > > Send cover letter and resume before October 14, 2006 to: > > Beth Harrison - mailto:bharrison@poets.org > > No phone calls, please. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 16:57:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: National Poetry Month Coordinator In-Reply-To: <001001c6c0ac$ab5e26e0$6500a8c0@jah> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think another qualification for this should be that the poet who actually cares about the poetry community. I bet this is another $25,000 a year job to live in New York..... -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of derekrogerson Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 3:52 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: National Poetry Month Coordinator New York, NY The Academy of American Poets seeks a dynamic individual to fill the role of National Poetry Month Coordinator. National Poetry Month, established by the Academy in 1996, has become the largest literary celebration in the world. The Coordinator will administer the program annually; develop a National Poetry Month publicity campaign; prepare and distribute press releases and media kits; liaise with the media and actively create press opportunities; oversee special NPM projects; and solicit program sponsors. The Coordinator will also organize and publicize Academy readings and events; create an annual marketing and publicity plan for the organization and its other programs; and solicit advertisers for the Academy's website (www.poets.org). Additional Qualifications: Knowledge of contemporary poetry essential. B.A. degree (or equivalent); M.F.A. or M.A. preferred; 2 years relevant work experience, preferably in publicity/public relations for publishing. Proficiency in Microsoft Office, FileMaker, and QuickBooks. Excellent writing and interpersonal skills, detail oriented, highly organized, ability to prioritize and multi-task. Send cover letter and resume before October 14, 2006 to: Beth Harrison - mailto:bharrison@poets.org No phone calls, please. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 16:58:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: payments for readings In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit POETRY IS NOT CHARITY POETS SHOULD BE PAID FOR THEIR CREATIVE ART EVEN IF IT IS SOMETHING SMALL WE LIVE IN A CAPITALIST SOCIETY AND FREE THINGS HAVE NO VALUE IN AMERICA SO WHY CANT A BAR THAT IS MAKING MONEY PAY? -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Jason Quackenbush Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 3:18 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: payments for readings > A bookstore or bar is NOT doing you a favor to let you be an > attraction for them to bring in paying customers--that should be a > reciprocally beneficial deal for which you are paid. We need to teach > the world to stop thinking of poetry as a pro bono art form. While I agree, and it's one of the reasons i stopped reading at and even hanging around at poetry slams, at the same time, part of the problem with it being difficult to get paid for poetry (i know people who can make a living giving readings, or at least claim to, but they are never very forthcoming when i ask them how it is that they got to that point) is that there aren't very many people willing to pay for poetry. having reconciled myself that i'll never make a living from writing, i have come to recognize that it's actually good for my writing that i have to work a day job. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 20:08:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adam Morey Subject: Re: $ In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ahahaha, yeah, we all sucks. >>but i dohave friends who do not have the other >> income id o for whom $ continues to be a problem. solutions? susan >> maurer > > Tell your friends to get jobs. Even novelists and critics have to hold > down day jobs these days. Welcome to the arts, there are a lucky few who > get to make a living doing it, and most of them suck. The rest of us > aren't as lucky, and still most of us suck. > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 18:18:02 -0700 Reply-To: ishaq1824@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: We are all Hezbollah now=?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=99?= MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT We are all Hezbollah now’ New Mideast unity backs Lebanon’s fighters By Joyce Chediac Published Aug 14, 2006 9:32 PM The U.S.-Israeli slaughter of Lebanese people and destruction of the Lebanese infrastructure has badly backfired for imperialism and all its agents in the Middle East. A new spirit of struggle is rising in the region, targeting all the oppressors in that area. Hezbollah recruits in Beirut. Hezbollah recruits in Beirut. After decades of U.S., French and Israeli attempts to divide them, today the population of Lebanon stands united in a way not seen since the 1970s. From Christians to Sunnis to Shias, from urbane Beirutis to rural farmers, “We are all Hezbollah now!” is the mood of the day. “We are all Hezbollah” is also heard in the streets from Yemen to Saudi Arabia to Egypt. Support for the Lebanese and Palestinian resistance has turned to anger against Arab regimes that have stood by and let this happen. The “wheels of change may already be churning in the Middle East as the rift between official government policies and popular sentiment on the ‘Arab street’ becomes increasingly evident,” reported the Arab news service Al-Jazeera on Aug. 3. (english.aljazeera.net) BBC correspondent Hugh Sykes wrote on Aug. 5 from Beirut that when Israel started bombing that city, people kept saying to him, “We are not Hezbollah—why are they bombing our homes?” But that has changed. Now people tell Sykes: “We were never Hezbollah. But we are all Hezbollah now. The Israeli response is completely unjustified.” Sykes continued: “I don’t think ‘But we are all Hezbollah now’ is just talk. ... There is a sense that now is the time for unity in the face of Israel.” Southern refugees embraced According to Al-Jazeera of July 31, “Thousands of Lebanese have reached across the sectarian and religious divide to help hundreds of thousands of mostly Shia refugees fleeing Israel’s bombardment in the south.” In one East Beirut district, refugees found sanctuary in a school in an area dominated for decades by the Christian Lebanese Forces, an ultra-right wing group. “Locals from the area have accepted the presence of the newcomers and some have even embraced them,” continued Al-Jazeera. “We feel their reaction has been very positive. They have brought us things like milk for the children. I feel like I am home,” said Ali Hassan, who fled the Haret Hreik area in the southern suburb of Beirut. “We have been expecting something different because of the political differences in Lebanon. But here I found that we are all Lebanese and I found a spirit of humanity. If you leave the politicians out of this, then we are all unified,” said Moham mad Kafani, a refugee at the school. In West Beirut, Fatima Hachem, who works with the refugee help group Samidoun, said: “Everyone was expecting to have some problems between Sunni and Shia. But a lot of Sunni people have been cooking food and taking it to the refugees. We didn’t expect this to happen.” Faced with widespread shortages of food, oil products and other necessities, many Lebanese are taking pride in helping each other. Even the impoverished Rashidyeh Palestinian refugee camp near the city of Tyre fed and sheltered 82 families who had fled villages near the Israeli border. Ghada Ajawi, a Palestinian refugee from Rashidyeh, said, “You feel with them more than anybody because we understand what they have been through.”’ In further signs of unity, key Sunni religious figures have issued edicts, binding to the faithful, backing the mostly Shia-based Lebanese resistance. Qatar-based Sheik Youssef el-Qaradaqwi, one of Sunni Islam’s most prominent religious scholars, called support for Lebanon’s fighters the “religious duty of every Moslem.” Defying his own government’s position, Egyptian Gran Mufti Ali Gomma’s edict defended Hezbollah, calling its strikes on Israel “defense of its country and not terrorism.” Anger turns against U.S.-client regimes For decades, Israel has attacked neighboring countries at will. Now, from Tehran to Cairo, the oppressed watch, electrified and proud, as a small Lebanese people’s militia inflicts more punishment on Israel in a month than hundreds of thousands of regular Arab troops have in over 50 years. In Cairo, protesters praised the Lebanese resistance leader with shouts of, “Tell Nasrallah we are all Hezbollah.” Regimes like those in Saudi Arabia and Egypt, which originally condemned Hezbollah and were praised for it by the U.S. and Israel, are now isolated from their people. Mustapha Bakri, a member of Egypt’s People’s Assembly, told Al-Jazeera, “The Arab regimes have been exposed to their populations as the epitome of subservience and followers to their American masters.” He added that “relations between Arab leaders and their peoples now stand at the edge of total estrangement.” “Hezbollah’s potency and their ability to bombard Israel’s cities and their capacity to withstand Israel’s onslaught for the first time in Arab-Israeli conflicts, led the Arab people rallying to their cause while divorcing their governments,” political writer Mahmud Kalil told the Arab news service. Take Egypt, for instance, a nation of 70 million people, the lynchpin of U.S. policy in the area and the first regime to sign a separate peace with Israel. What did the Egyptians get out of it? Today 23 percent live below the poverty line, almost half cannot read and write, and infant mortality is 60.46 deaths per 1,000 live births, compared to 6.3 in the U.S. In the past, demonstrations against Israel aggression, when permitted at all, have served as a safety valve for the Egyp tian government, taking attention away from conditions at home. Today, however, demonstrations in Cairo supporting the Lebanese and Palestinians are not just chanting “Long live your struggle, Lebanon,” but also, “Down, down with Mubarak!” referring to the Egyptian president. (New York Times, Aug. 6) “The regular man on the street is beginning to connect everything together,” said Kamal Khalil, director of the Center for Socialist Studies in Cairo. “The regime impairing his livelihood is the same regime that is oppressing his freedom and the same regime that is colluding with Zionism and American hegemony.” According to Gasser Abdel Razek, a board member of the Egyptian Organi zation for Human Rights, “Everything making people angry is coming out.” The New York Times report on the situation in Egypt concludes: “People look at Lebanon and complain about gas prices. They look at Lebanon and complain about government corruption. They even used Lebanon to attack the government’s efforts to control the political message delivered by imams across the country.” This article is copyright under a Creative Commons License. Workers World, 55 W. 17 St., NY, NY 10011 Email: ww@workers.org Subscribe wwnews-subscribe@workersworld.net Support independent news http://www.workers.org/orders/donate.php site promotion Page printed from: http://www.workers.org/2006/world/hezbollah-0817/ -- Stay Strong -"I testified/My mama cried/Black people died/When the other man lied" -- chuck d "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as) \ "We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit to a process of humiliation." --patrick o'neil \ "...we have the responsibility to make no deal with the oppressor" --harry belafonte \ "...in time, we will look back to this age with incredulity and amazement -- and victories like Hamas in Israel will be the *best* of our memories." -- mumia abu jamal -- "what state? what union?" "...these people generate wars in Asia and Africa,...These are the people who, in the last century, caused several devastating wars. In one world war alone, they killed over 60 million people.... In the near future, Allah willing, we will put you to trial in courts established by the peoples...."-- mahmoud ahmadinejad \ http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a047braithwaite.php http://cleveland.indymedia.org/uploads/2006/07/olivet___h.a.t.s_in_the_square___loud_ruffa1b.mp3 \ http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7255.php \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date \ http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/en_fins__clichy-sous_bois_amixquiet-_lordpatch_the_giver__.mp3 \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ \ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 21:19:34 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: Re: $ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Susan, don't listen to Jason about telling your friends to get jobs! WHY should we get jobs when there's SO MANY rich people around these days? I FIRMLY BELIEVE in the process of refining their money, stripping the FILTH out of their money! In fact I have a classified ad, it looks like this: POETS REFINE MONEY There are thousands of Americans everyday who are looking for a safe place to invest their money. Poets are the best source for removing negative charge from your wealth, and raising the collective conscience of the planet. You can change your life FOREVER by sponsoring a poet today! CAConrad is one such American poet serious about making poetry a lifelong quest, ready and willing to refine your money! If you are interested in sponsoring this poet, call (215)563-3075, or write to _CAConrad13@aol.com_ (mailto:CAConrad13@aol.com) . You won't believe the difference a poet will make! why pandas SHOULD die for more on why they SHOULD: _http://tenbyfour.blogspot.com_ (http://tenbyfour.blogspot.com) for PhillySound: _http://PhillySound.blogspot.com_ (http://PhillySound.blogspot.com) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 18:24:34 -0700 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Subject: Re: payments for readings In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I would recommend the four figure readings which pay much better than the two figure readings and are, although there are some exceptions (mostly corporate or music related), usually found through Universities. Likewise, I understand there are five figure readings but since I have not had one of these yet, I cannot offer further recommendations or commentary. Steve, come on out to Ohio, if you don't make arrangements beforehand I am certain I could bilk you out of much more than some minor league metropolitanus. I would at least guarantee memorable biography worthy shenanigans. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 21:45:53 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Daniel f. Bradley" Subject: Re: National Potty Mouth Corndinator In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit i bet there is qualifications that you NOT BE A poet who actually cares about the poetry community Haas Bianchi wrote: I think another qualification for this should be that the poet who actually cares about the poetry community. I bet this is another $25,000 a year job to live in New York..... -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of derekrogerson Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 3:52 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: National Poetry Month Coordinator New York, NY The Academy of American Poets seeks a dynamic individual to fill the role of National Poetry Month Coordinator. National Poetry Month, established by the Academy in 1996, has become the largest literary celebration in the world. The Coordinator will administer the program annually; develop a National Poetry Month publicity campaign; prepare and distribute press releases and media kits; liaise with the media and actively create press opportunities; oversee special NPM projects; and solicit program sponsors. The Coordinator will also organize and publicize Academy readings and events; create an annual marketing and publicity plan for the organization and its other programs; and solicit advertisers for the Academy's website (www.poets.org). Additional Qualifications: Knowledge of contemporary poetry essential. B.A. degree (or equivalent); M.F.A. or M.A. preferred; 2 years relevant work experience, preferably in publicity/public relations for publishing. Proficiency in Microsoft Office, FileMaker, and QuickBooks. Excellent writing and interpersonal skills, detail oriented, highly organized, ability to prioritize and multi-task. Send cover letter and resume before October 14, 2006 to: Beth Harrison - mailto:bharrison@poets.org No phone calls, please. helping to kill your literati star since 2004 http://fhole.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 23:13:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: clear lake MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I want to go to Clear Lake again and buy that house we explored before you started dating a minstrel and I invested heavily in clowns, because... (Want to know more? Click on http://blog.myspace.com/orthodontist) . ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 01:01:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Fw: Fw: Fw: Fw: Fw: Re: payments for readings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit well thanks for all your responses tho i'm not so sure i should have brought this up to begin with it's always a sore/soft spot for poets it seems got some excellent responses tho that i both agree and disagree with - as always tho most think it's ok not to receive payment no matter what the circumstances and possibly my original post meant to provoke did actually insult a couple of folks and after all it is all a matter of individual choice how is it i thought baltimore was in ohio? craig said some useful stuff and i've read where there was a fixed fee regardless of audience that i think is alway nice amy said 2 good things about always being grateful to read and if someone surprises you with some $ wow a bonus this one is a great one here; "A bookstore or bar is NOT doing you a favor to let you be an attraction > for them to bring in paying customers--that should be a reciprocally > beneficial deal for which you are paid. We need to teach the world to > stop thinking of poetry as a pro bono art form.' tho they are doing you a favor as are you doing them one as well once a a festival i co -ran the guy who got us the space a true lefty wanted to take all the bread off the top for the space and then at some point in the fest pay the performers i explained to him if you threw a fest and announced FESTIVAL but nothing else who would show up the perforemers are like the collective farmers paty them a token if there is some money taken in this is what i was getting at thank you for this "It seems like a detail that has been overlooked is that the woman who curated got 70% of the door, which means that the venue already took their cut and their expenses were covered. So the question is why wouldn't she share a little of the loot? Did she actually spend $100 on advertising the event or on some other hidden expense?" what did she spend that 140 bucks on? the event i'm curating sunday the 20th is free - i hope we get a pass the hat thing happening and at least 20 or more audience my expense so far $10 no that's a lie 6 _________ Amy writes: I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that Bowery sometimes collects a certain fee for slots taken, regardless of how many people attend. The curator pays the sum and hopes to get it back by investing even more time and money into advertising. thanks amy for your input the bowery takes a percent of what the total door brings in this varies from 25 to 50 % depending on the event the rest goes to the artists or the case that spurred this since discussion since no one spoke of my second scenario or where that 50 bucks i got as did 6 other poets come from(grant money and unexpected ) to the curator who says she incured expenses i assume reaching that sum of 140 or possibly more again i am not faulting anyone and also love to read when asked and will abide by wht is agreed on by all... if it is a free book party they - the bpc - take a percent of book sales if it is like the event i am participating in on sunday aug 20 at 6 pm hint hint which is donation bob and i decided on, well more bob did, and it's a good idea too, a one drink minimum this goes to the club and that is true generosity Seems to me if you go into a reading knowing you haven't been told you're getting paid, then you've agreed to read for free. TRUE there in lies my error That said, I did a reading Steve curated once and was pleasantly surprised when he passed a hat and split the collection among the readers. This was totally unexpected anda perk, and I was grateful. I was also grateful to read when I didn't think I would make some moolah. ME TOO Some folks are quite selective in their readings because they want to make money and/or want to cultivate being a 'name brand' poet. A few of those folks will eventually make the 'big bucks' when it comes to reading -- but even fewer will make a living at it. Me, I'm grateful when invited and money really only becomes a consideration if the person doing the inviting brings it up or if the location requires travel. SOME FOLKS ARE TOO SELECTIVE AND FOR what is supposed to be A POETRY COMMUNITY there are way too many factions i guess we all need to find out where we belong - hey amy i'd love to read for you some time ... s.m. said/; when i first started submitting poetry dean kostos was kind enough to tell me about poets marketwhich i bought after ron price was kind enough to tell me about american voice which i got into and which then paid $loo /poem. WOW terrific but i sure wish you'd forgive me and speak to me since this is a very small tho factionalized communtiy and we're both pretty good poets was incensed to learn that very few journals pay and vowed i would stay in the black with my poetry submissions which id did the first year. but i am reminded of brigid murnaghan"s poem in which she sayd did you hear the one about the polish poet . hes in it for the money. NO disrespect to poles although i guess if i were polish id think otherwise and than i realized iLOVED being published and now don"t worry about the$ but i dohave friends who do not have the other income id o for whom $ continues to be a problem. solutions? susan maurer oh i thought you were calling me a pole susan now i get it cause i'm russian i've been told- $ are nice but again that was not really the issue tho we do all like to be a bit rewarded for our work and if someone likes you enough to take you home meaning they buy a book or cd that's even better... _________________________________________________________________ and thank you david k it's true i sometimes do not ask curators in advance a mistake on my part but i usually know the club and know that if there's a door charge how it works and sadly assume it works the way i would do it if i were curating in that venue regardless of whether i let the readers know in advance or they asked me in advance this payment discussion was meant to prompt just that discussion and to take us away from war etc and yap about a bit of down home practicality it is not meant to insult or offend the person in this case l. s. who curated one the events i mentioned where no pay was given i do many readings for free and those who know me know that at this point in my life i read quite a bit anyone who knows me knows how fair i am about this i've been paid nothing many times and for what i think a poet is used to getting who is not in the academic or festival circuits good sums at times i have done many benefits and have participated in as well as curated many events not saying this out of ego or to illicit sympathy i agree wholeheartedly with all that david k. says and it does vary from situation to situation when i have done events like one i am doing sunday where there is no charge i inform the readers or musicians of the circumstances if i get no money from door they get no money if this does not suit them that's fine and they don't have to do the gig ditto for me in reverse situations but david k. again is right iin the scenarios mentioned that instituted this discussion i did not ask in advance therefore that is my problem aside: shit i always have trouble asking when i read at david's small press event for wandering hermit i knew this event was free asked for nothing & expected nothing there have been times where i was paid well for free events without asking but yes it's alway good to ask especially if it is not a free event anyway the reason i brought this up is precisely because i strongly believe that what the curator lays out for an event is their ( my if i am the curator ) problem tho some should be recouped after giving at least a token to the readers but that if there is a charge at the door and part goes to the house and part to the curator/participants unless it is a benefit some token should be given to the readers shit i'm repeating myself aren't i i had a good time too at this event this is not the issue sorry i didn't make it a general question at another time i didn't get upset that i wasn't given part of the door i was making an inquiry not just about me but about all the readers if the concensus was that no one else cared or bothered to ask then i'll always abide by that no matter what my opinion might be it's not about special treatment here tho we all are a bit special and there fore all should share and when did ya (l.s.) read for me for gratis? if i charged at the door everyone got something no matter how small unless audience was a no show or the house took 100% and it would be unlikely in the second case that i would throw an event in such a venue this is not meant to provoke argument but stimulate conversation about poets who like everyone else should perhaps get paid for their work when there is even a bit of $ to consider again unless there is no entrance fee or it is a benefit i feel it's a worthy discussion most poets act like martyrs and think reading for $ is taboo where as bowling for $ is not i understand cost factors on aug 20 since there is no door charge and no reader has asked for money of course no one including myself will get paid and i will not recoup the money i spent what i spent unless we pass the hat and i take out what's mine first but even in this scenario if little is taken in at door or by donation i will split it with the readers before i take my expenses out wow what a rambling disjointed rant any way sorry l.s. if you felt offended this was not my intent i'd love to read with you and hal and reggie etc in sept for free if that is the case tom savage who is a dear friend is both right and wrong the issue especially here in the apple is not about getting paid as tom and i know having read together many times and we will again in about a week at free events or donation events it's gain about the ones where folks charge at the door i'm focusing on and yes tom i know many poets who will not read anymore for nothing one in point won't read for under $1000 and what about out of town or out of country readings? air fare at least cab fare train fare bus fare?? nothing ??? just the priveledge of reading as someone once told me when i refused to go all the way to boston when there was no china town bus, to read for 1/2 hour for the GLORY? i was once offered a great gig in new orleans summer 120 degrees same festival with creeley baraka and other greats i was honored to be asked i am not brgrudging them their statis and the fact that their way was paid and their accomodations but i and a handful of others some who went had to pay large plane fares and 50$ a night for a room i regret not having gone but in the long run the gig would not have helped me in anyway except for the joy of sharing all that poetry and music which i'm sure was fantastic but if i had gone & taken my wife which i generally do a great poet in her own right it would have cost 2 grand almost and without her at least well you get the point... sure it would have no doubt been an unforgettable event but..................... oh i was one of those readers vernon treated to dinner a real mensch but it is a drag to go so far to lose money unless you feel it is a truly positive and worth while experience which i guess for me isn't my #1 consideration i will be doing a gig in lowell in oct pay my own bus fare get put up most likely make a bit of $ back bus fare so cheap now and share the door it will be cheap enough to make it worth while and in nov getting my way paid to baltimore all cases are different i opt for far away they pay in town wait around (depending on the circumstance ) it all depends on logistics cost factors distance perks other than just ego etc as ted joans used to say no bread no ted for me that only applies long distance thanks david baptise true enough about yer monetary deductions tho it happens rarely and etc but this has nothing to do with those who work in the club(s) or those on ssi i'm going thru the disabled stuff myself anyone who has lived in the music world sees this argument a bit clearer and as for the clubs / what they (%) take helps pay help and overhead again the club's choice and decision also club and workers survive drinks ,tips and meager salaries i have many friends who work in & own them this no easy life i loved yer input even if i don't totally agree i'm making one simple point and i am (en)lightened up sorry if ya thought i was uptight over this but door money that does not go to club but to artists should be split by all involved i like this as an add true true POETS REFINE MONEY There are thousands of Americans everyday who are looking for a safe place to invest their money. Poets are the best source for removing negative charge from your wealth, and raising the collective conscience of the planet. You can change your life FOREVER by sponsoring a poet today! CAConrad is one such American poet serious about making poetry a lifelong quest, ready and willing to refine your money! If you are interested in sponsoring this poet, call (215)563-3075, or write to ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 01:16:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: clifford Subject: poet thing community MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Its most likely you gotta be working for some intelligence agency! or intelligencer agency like Marlow, and sure enuff in canada there is the royal canadian mounted poets (poulty police) them;'s that wear baseball caps attending big readings, its a real macro deal.|on theother hand, one has to be fairly suspicious of them that claim to care fer other reasons; buy this is old hat. i bet there is qualifications that you not be a poet who actually cares about the poetry community Haas Bianchi wrote: I think another qualification for this should be that the poet who actually cares about the poetry community. I bet this is another $25,000 a year job to live in New York..... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 01:21:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: clifford Subject: typo_and Brim's clever blog MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline http://takingthebrim.blogspot.com/ Its most likely you gotta be working for some intelligence agency! or intelligencer agency like Chris Marlow did , and sure enuff in canada there is the royal canadian mounted poets (poulty police) them;'s that wear baseball caps attending big readings, its a real macro deal.|on theother hand, one has to Correctorp be fairly suspicious of them that claim to care fer other reasons; buT this is old hat. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 00:25:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fluffy Singler Subject: Re: payments for readings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I do agree with the idea that it's good for your writing to have to work, if only because it's important to have contact with "normal" people--people who aren't artists and also slog their way through day jobs they hate to fund whatever their passions may be. I often worry that such an attitude is just a rationalization for the fact that I can't get paid for what I do or that I don't have the "hustle" to be able to do so. And as I get older, it's just harder mentally to do work I don't care about, and my energy level is winding down to be able to do one thing 40 hours a week and the thing I care about another 20, 40 or 50 hours a week. -----Original Message----- From: Jason Quackenbush [mailto:jfq@MYUW.NET] Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 3:18 PM Subject: Re: payments for readings > A bookstore or bar is NOT doing you a favor to let you be an attraction > for them to bring in paying customers--that should be a reciprocally > beneficial deal for which you are paid. We need to teach the world to > stop thinking of poetry as a pro bono art form. While I agree, and it's one of the reasons i stopped reading at and even hanging around at poetry slams, at the same time, part of the problem with it being difficult to get paid for poetry (i know people who can make a living giving readings, or at least claim to, but they are never very forthcoming when i ask them how it is that they got to that point) is that there aren't very many people willing to pay for poetry. having reconciled myself that i'll never make a living from writing, i have come to recognize that it's actually good for my writing that i have to work a day job. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 01:26:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Fw: Fw: Fw: dalachinsky's 60th birthday party this will be one of many reminders MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit DALACHINSKY'S 60th BIRTHDAY BASH tho i've never really grown up, i have grown old( er ) & i'm gonna have a 60th birthday party SEPT.24 @ Tonic 107 Norfolk St. ( F to Delancey, J to Essex ) so come help me celebrate that along with Trane's 80th & the arrival of my new book The Final Nite - 19 years of poems there'll be plenty of good music & words that night. please RSVP if you're coming and if you can bring some food for what i hope will be a BIG POT LUCK meal and party from 5 - 8 pm. also RSVP if you'd like to help set up between 4 & 5 PM any help etc. would be appreciated. there will be a concert and readings as well call steve or Yuko @ 1212-925-5256 or e mail @ skyplums@juno.com we may even have a place for ya to cook or prepare if you need one the concert will begin at 8 P.M. with such luminaries as Roy Campbell Jr. ( my birthday brother ), Loren Mazzancane Connors, Matthew Shipp & John Zorn plus many of my dear friends from the younger generation such as Charles Waters, Matt Lavelle, Federico Ughi & many more. Also many of my dear poet friends will be on hand to throw a poem or 2. in Japan 60 is a very important birthday & one is supposed to wear RED to signify that you are being BORN Again… you become a baby again … a new cycle… a new life … a gift….like music. SO WEAR RED with me as for gifts (optional of course) bring food or a new laptop ( well, used if need be) or an unlimited supply of unlimited metro cards or books by boris vian that i don't own ( ask first ) or kawabata's Palm of the Hand stories or..... the mammal's notebook - satie's writings or some good incus or fmp vinyl or peter lemer on esp or something i don't already have but most of all bring yerselves & a little love love steve ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 02:02:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: joel s lewis Subject: Re: payments for readings In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v750) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit One of the things, seems to me, that killed off fees for a reading was the proliferation of mega bookstore readings (less important in cities, but quite vital in suburban and small towns). When B&N and Borders first came to North Jersey --readers would get gift certificates, t-shirts, a day of reading employee discount and carte blanche at the coffe bar. once, at a Borders, a manager gave me thirty bucks out of petty cash! That stopped quickly and now you are lucky if you get a coffe + you can't pass the hat. This lack of non- payment seems to spread, as it used to be a point of honor for an organizer to give the reader something. (And, once upon a time, many small press magazines tries to pay 'something" for poems) Do we hurt ourselves as a community by our willingness to perform too often for free--or too often, at a loss? Even at venues that pay, say colleges, the $100 dollar max fee for a local well-known poet seems set in stone from some point in late 60s (when, according Lewis warsh) you could pay your rent and still have something left over. There is a poetry series at Stevens Tech in Hoboken that doesn't even buy the reader a coffee. I asked the organizer about maybe paying poets and he responded he had dozens of people, many w/ some rep, willing to read without a fee. Or maybe attitudes have changed as so many of us are working full time (or, too often, all the time) and are less dependent on giving readings to make ends meet. Joel Lewis ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 09:09:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kevin thurston Subject: Re: clear lake In-Reply-To: <000601c6c0ea$624afe40$210110ac@AARONLAPTOP> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline there's some good PR. a teaser. On 8/16/06, Aaron Belz wrote: > > I want to go to Clear Lake again > and buy that house we explored > before you started dating a minstrel > and I invested heavily in clowns, > > because... > > > (Want to know more? Click on http://blog.myspace.com/orthodontist) > > > > > > > > > . > -- http://fuckinglies.blogspot.com http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/thepixelplus/nhdoublewide.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 06:21:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: justin sirois Subject: Re: clear lake In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit indeed. and strong poem. hrm. --- kevin thurston wrote: > there's some good PR. a teaser. > > On 8/16/06, Aaron Belz wrote: > > > > I want to go to Clear Lake again > > and buy that house we explored > > before you started dating a minstrel > > and I invested heavily in clowns, > > > > because... > > > > > > (Want to know more? Click on > http://blog.myspace.com/orthodontist) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > -- > http://fuckinglies.blogspot.com > > http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/thepixelplus/nhdoublewide.html > . . . . . . . http://www.narrowhouserecordings.com/ a record label primarily interested in contemporary writing, poetics and the political __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 08:55:39 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: payments for readings In-Reply-To: <20060816.010107.-180717.40.skyplums@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Aug 16, 2006, at 12:01 AM, Steve Dalachinsky wrote: > how is it i thought baltimore was in ohio? You were probably thinking of the Baltimore in Ohio Railroad. (Now CSX.) Hal Today's Special "The Wordless Life" http://xstream.xpressed.org/11hal.html Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@gmail.com halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 09:57:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: susan maurer Subject: readings Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed i now take out of town readings and combine them with vacation.Jackie sheeler poet and editor of off the cuffs, soft skull (by and about cops) and i read in talahasee and she tossed me a reading in chicago and norm davis of hazmat made me feel like visiting royalty when i read in rochester. have poems , will travel.hope everyone saw the great nytimes article about jackie. does anyone know contact information about the reading about 70 miles from woodstock near a river? in a limestone cave? susan maurer _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 07:17:27 -0700 Reply-To: ishaq1824@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: We are all Hezbollah now=?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=99?= MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Hezbollah 2, Israel 0 Joanna Francis http://crescentandcross.com/index.php?page=articles&author=joanna_francis&subpage1=hezbollah2 Make no mistake about it – the Israelis are getting their tails kicked in Lebanon! Just like they did in May 2000, when Hezbollah sent them scurrying back across the border with their tails between their legs. The Israelis never forgot that stinging defeat and have now demanded a rematch with Hezbollah. And much to their surprise, Israel has already managed to lose the rematch too. Considering the disparity in numbers and weaponry between Israel and Hezbollah, Israel should have achieved a decisive victory by now. But they haven't. And it doesn't help their case any that they have had to resort to bombing the entire country, killing women and children, to try to save face. It only makes them look more pathetic. They will never be able to swagger quite so arrogantly again, or instill fear in the groveling leaders of their neighboring countries in quite the same way. The Israelis have been outfoxed at every turn by an irregular army using prehistoric weaponry, with little to no support from neighboring countries (the leaders, that is), but who have proven themselves to be unwavering in their determination. Hezbollah are fighting against the best weaponry American money can buy. And they are winning. Because you can't buy courage. Even with the entire United States treasury at your disposal, the things that matter most to real men simply cannot be purchased. Therefore, the poor man has the advantage over the rich man because valor, manliness, and honor are free to those with nothing to lose. The Israelis had everything to lose in this misguided operation and have proceeded to do so exceedingly well. Even among their most brainwashed sycophants, their credibility is in the single digits. The excuse of the "kidnapped" soldiers is totally bogus to anyone with an I.Q. over 70, because Hezbollah has offered to release them in exchange for a ceasefire but Israel has refused. Meanwhile, Israel has kidnapped thousands of Lebanese citizens over the years who languish in Israeli prisons to this day. And the Katyusha rocket pity party won't work either, because the Katyusha rockets are simply in retaliation for Israeli aggression, not vice versa, and can hardly compare to the bombs being dropped on Lebanon. If they thought for one moment that they would rout out Hezbollah, they were seriously mistaken. You cannot eliminate a fighting force whose reason for existence is justified by the fact that Israel continues to occupy their land, invade their air space, and hold their people as political prisoners. Kill them all, and another generation will simply step up to the plate and take their place. The Israelis fight like sissies from fighter jets, dropping bunker-buster bombs on defenseless women and children. That's real manly! They roll across the border in heavily-armored tanks, confident that they'll be impervious to Hezbollah's weaker arsenal. Only lately, those tanks have had the surprising habit of turning into human crematoria for the Israeli soldiers inside them. So why don't they get out of their tanks and fighter jets and go toe-to-toe with Hezbollah like real men? (See first sentence of essay). The fourth most powerful military in the world has been given a shiny black eye that no amount of make-up will ever be able to hide. The aura of invincibility they so haughtily projected is now tarnished beyond repair. Bragging rights go to Hezbollah, as Israel eats its long-overdue humble pie. Why do I feel so strongly about this, you might ask? Because Israel has made me, an American taxpayer, complicit in their war crimes, and I, for one, am glad to see them finally getting their comeuppance. In fact, the Israelis are losing so badly that their co-religionists in the West have had to order new false flag operations to take their humiliating defeat off the front pages. It's like that scene in the Wizard of Oz where Toto pulls back the curtain on the "Great Oz," only to discover that he's really a weaselly old man, pretending to be something that he's not. Well, the curtain has been pulled back on the Zionists, and they are standing there in all their naked cowardice and cruelty, for all world to see. And the world is repulsed. Hence, the PR campaign now underway to try to remind us goyim that all Muslims are "terrorists" and that the Israelis are always the victims. So now we're supposed to feel relieved that the Israelis are only killing "terrorists" (not human beings), and that they are only trying to make the world a safer place for all of us. Only it's not going to work this time. I mean, how stupid do they think we are? Just when world sympathy was leaning heavily towards Lebanon and away from Israel, does any sane person really believe that Muslims would try to pull off an ill-fated stunt? Only the most credulous of FOX News watchers could fail to notice that the timing of these supposed terror plots is extraordinarily convenient. The mainstream media is just another weapon in the Israeli armory, but this time, chinks are beginning to show. The Zionist-controlled media try their best to obfuscate the cowardice of their own kin by wrongly portraying Hezbollah as hiding behind women and children. In psychiatry (a dangerous medical specialty they invented), this is called "projection," or the attempt to transfer your own negative traits onto another person. They know all about projection because they do it so well. But Israel cannot hide the fact that they have slaughtered more than 1,000 civilians, mostly women and children, and have destroyed almost the entire infrastructure of a modern, democratic state. Yet they cynically try to portray themselves as reluctant and contrite killers, in a grotesque attempt to blame innocent victims for their own deaths. What did they think was going to happen when they plunked themselves down in the middle of a million Arabs, after slaughtering them to steal their land in 1948? Did they really think they would get away with it indefinitely? Obviously so, since they've now set out to conquer more sovereign Arab territory, fully revealing their expansionist agenda to anyone with eyes to see. Only something unexpected has happened on the way to Eretz Israel; they've run into a brick wall called Hezbollah, who will not relinquish their sovereignty to the Zionist land-grabbers. It's slowly starting to dawn on the Zionists that Lebanon will never be part of Eretz Israel, and that the Litani River will never provide drinking water to Israeli settler households. Plan "Eretz Israel" has been put on hold by a small Lebanese militia with more guts than most men can even dream about. In any area that counts, Hezbollah is already victorious. Courage? How brave do you have to be to stay and fight when you are out-numbered, out-gunned, out-tanked, and out-bombed? Very brave, indeed. This war was nothing more than an Israeli land-grab attempt, and an opportunity to exercise collective punishment on an entire people for Israel's defeat at the hands of Hezbollah in May 2000. But the Israeli soldiers aren't half the fighters Hezbollah are; hence, their second defeat in six years at the hands of their bitter enemies. Hezbollah now owns them – lock, stock and barrel. joannafrancis2005 @ yahoo.com ********************************************************************* WORLD VIEW NEWS SERVICE Source URL: http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=node/2094 -- Stay Strong -"I testified/My mama cried/Black people died/When the other man lied" -- chuck d "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as) \ "We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit to a process of humiliation." --patrick o'neil \ "...we have the responsibility to make no deal with the oppressor" --harry belafonte \ "...in time, we will look back to this age with incredulity and amazement -- and victories like Hamas in Israel will be the *best* of our memories." -- mumia abu jamal -- "what state? what union?" "...these people generate wars in Asia and Africa,...These are the people who, in the last century, caused several devastating wars. In one world war alone, they killed over 60 million people.... In the near future, Allah willing, we will put you to trial in courts established by the peoples...."-- mahmoud ahmadinejad \ http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a047braithwaite.php http://cleveland.indymedia.org/uploads/2006/07/olivet___h.a.t.s_in_the_square___loud_ruffa1b.mp3 \ http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7255.php \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date \ http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/en_fins__clichy-sous_bois_amixquiet-_lordpatch_the_giver__.mp3 \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ \ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 10:22:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: heidi arnold Subject: Re: payments for readings In-Reply-To: <4D5E8C24-8110-45D1-97FE-8CAD12DE6319@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Fluffy Singler to POETICS More options 1:25 amI do agree with the idea that it's good for your writing to have to work, if only because it's important to have contact with "normal" people--people who aren't artists and also slog their way through day jobs they hate to fund whatever their passions may be. --there is the saying among the desert monastics that the monks who refused to work for their food weren't able to meditate competently -- i think they actually locked a couple bartlebys out of their cells or something -- anyway -- which suggests a deeper relationship between work and poetry than just money -- in that case work was defined as cottage industries to produce things that could be eaten or else sold for food -- but in rural communities you have this sort of thing -- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 07:22:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Matt Henriksen Subject: Friday 8.18.06 ~ Cardinale, Detorie, & Quint ~ Carroll Gardens, Brooklyn MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The Burning Chair Readings cordially invite you to once again Come On Get Happy! w/ Jenna Cardinale, Michelle Detorie, & Arlo Quint @ The Fall Café 307 Smith Street btwn. Union & Smith Carroll Gardens, Brooklyn on Friday, August 18th 730 PM It’ll be like we never took a vacation. Keep an eye out, because the entire fall line up is coming soon. Jenna Cardinale is the author of Journals (Whole Coconut, 2006). Her poems appear in recent or forthcoming issues of nthposition, Cannibal, Court Green and eratio, among others. She teaches poetry writing at Lehman College and Explorations Academy, an experimental public high school in the Bronx. Michelle Detorie lives in Kyle, TX where she is the writer-in-residence at the Katherine Anne Porter house. Her poems have appeared in Chelsea, Verse Daily, DIAGRAM, and elsewhere. Arlo Quint is author of Days on End from Open 24 Hours press. Some of his poems have recently appeared in The Recluse and others are forthcoming in Cannibal. He lives in Brooklyn. *** If you'd like to be removed from this list, are receiving a double subscription, or seek information on The Bruning Chair Readings, contact Matthew Henriksen at matt@typomag.com. Please do not contact The Fall Cafe, The Cloister Cafe, or the Pierogi Gallery, as their contributions to the series involve space and time, not organizational concern. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 10:28:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Conners Subject: Rochester Party for PP/FF An Anthology (mark your calendar!) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable PP/FF ANTHOLOGY LAUNCH AT MOKA You are cordially invited to attend the Rochester launch of the exciting ne= w prose poetry/flash fiction anthology, PP/FF: An Anthology. The anthology= was edited by Rochester native Peter Conners and published by Buffalo-base= d Starcherone Books.=20 Where: Museum of Kids of Art (MOKA) 90 Webster Street (corner of Grand and= Webster) in downtown Rochester, NY. (Read more about MOKA at the bottom o= f this email and at www.museumofkidsart.org) When: Friday, September 8. 8 p.m.=20 Featuring readings by Dimitri Anastasopoulos, Peter Conners, Sean Thomas D= ougherty, Geoffrey Gatza, Christopher Kennedy, Tony Leuzzi, Ethan Paquin, a= nd, Thom Ward. Wine, dessert, literature, good times! For more about the anthology visit: http://www.starcherone.com/ppff.htm Questions?: phconners@hotmail.com NOTES ON THE FEATURED READERS: Dimitri Anastasopoulos is author of A Larger Sense of Harvey (Mammoth Book= s, 2001). His work appears regularly in journals and anthologies, and he se= rves on the Executive Committee of the &NOW: Festival of Innovative Writing= and Art. He is Assistant Professor of English at the University of Rochest= er.=20 Peter Conners (www.peterconners.com) edited PP/FF: An Anthology and is foun= ding co-editor of the literary journal, Double Room. His new collection of = prose poetry is forthcoming from White Pine Press. He is Fiction Editor/Mar= keting Director for BOA Editions. Sean Thomas Dougherty is the author of seven full-length books including t= he forthcoming Broken Hallelujahs (BOA Editions, June 2007) and Nightshift = Belonging to Lorca (Mammoth Books, 2004). He teaches in the BFA Program for= Creative Writing at Penn State Erie. Geoffrey Gatza (www.geoffreygatza.com) is editor and publisher of Blaze VO= X Books. He has dedicated himself to protecting the downtrodden of his city= from a continuing series of deadly poetic schemes by the insidious School = of Quietude. That city is Buffalo, NY. Christopher Kennedy is author of three full-length poetry collections incl= uding the forthcoming Encouragement for a Man Falling to His Death (BOA Edi= tions, October 2007), and three chapbooks including Greatest Hits (Pudding = House). He is Director of the MFA Program in Creative Writing at Syracuse U= niversity. Tony Leuzzi teaches literature and composition at MCC. His poems and pros= e have appeared in a wide range of academic and small press journals and an= thologies. A two-time recipient of writing-related grants from NYSCA, his b= ook of verse, Tongue-Tied and Singing, was released by FootHills Publishing= in 2004. =20 Ethan Paquin=92s third book of poems, The Violence, was released in fall 2= 005 by Ahsahta Press. He is co-founder and editor of Slope Publishing, whic= h oversees the publication of books by Slope Editions and the online litera= ry journal, Slope. He lives and teaches in Buffalo, NY. Thom Ward is author of four poetry collections including his most recent, = Various Orbits (Carnegie-Mellon, 2004). He is Editor of BOA Editions. He li= ves with his wife, three children, two dogs, two fish, and a rat in Penfiel= d, NY. PRAISE FOR PP/FF AN ANTHOLOGY: "In our age of test marketing and referential storylines, it's sometimes ha= rd to remember that writing is a creative act that can produce material as = original and multifaceted as any other art form. PP/FF, an anthology edited= by Peter Conners, serves up an exciting collection of unusual writing, not= to be classified by structure or content, except that most pieces are shor= t (one or two pages) and achieve the immediacy of storytelling.... Nearly = every selection in this anthology seeks to respond to a timely question, re= veal a painful truth, or depict a collective memory." - Rain Taxi Review of Books, Summer 2006 "Once again feisty little Starcherone Books runs in and scoops the field, e= nsuring PP/FF a long life in bookstores, in classroom use and for course ad= option at programs sympathetic to the daring and experimental. Peter Conner= s, one of the most noted US prose poets, here takes on a gigantic challenge= , as he struggles to produce a solid critical mass of what he considers the= exciting "flash fictions" and "prose poems" of today. Wearing the heroic f= lippers of the editor, Conners has waded through the dregs of this material= and pulled out a whole variety of plums of different sorts." - Kevin Killian review for Amazon.com=20 "...PP/FF is a kind of earthly paradise where the Language poet lies down w= ith the self-absorbed memoirist, the bourgeois Fabulist picks fleas off the= back of the avant-garde Maoist and everyone wears lovely party clothes - o= r a nice new boiler suit." - Stride Magazine ABOUT THE MUSEUM OF KIDS ART (MOKA): MoKA is a multi-discipline, minority directed center for arts and learning= . We employ the visual and performing arts to foster a sense of accomplishm= ent and hope in the urban community of Rochester, New York. Our mission: to= educate and inspire urban youth through the arts and mentored training in = life skills; to equip and educate leaders to further demonstrate entreprene= urial potential. The facility, located at 90 Webster Avenue, has been fully renovated includ= ing the installation of a new elevator to the 3rd Floor Gallery, workspace = and reception areas. MoKA was founded by Michelle Cardulla, publisher of Lake Affect Magazine. = She is also the Museum=92s executive director. Lake Affect Magazine has bee= n conducting workshops for children of all ages since 1994 and has publishe= d their artwork extensively. In 2003, Michelle secured the space at 90 Webs= ter Avenue to house the Museum. For information about registration and workshops, please contact MoKA at: = 585 288 4239 or visit our website at www.museumofkidsart.org _________________________________________________________________ Try Live.com - your fast, personalized homepage with all the things you car= e about in one place. http://www.live.com/getstarted= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 07:40:25 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: two veterans of the Iraq war MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=2318457&page=1 Joe Darby, the "whistle blower" at Abu Ghraib, speaks out. He acted bravely in sending those photos to the Army Criminal Investigation Division. He was still at Abu Ghraib when Donald Rumsfeld announced his name on television. Surely Rumsfeld must have known that he was still at Abu Ghraib. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6232757351172260101&q=war And here is Jessie MacBeth, another veteran of the Iraq war. Jessie estimates he killed 200 people when he was there, many of them women and children, many of them with a bullet to the head at close range. Jessie is ashamed of himself and ashamed of his country and is speaking out against what the USA is doing in Iraq. Jessie MacBeth is probably in more danger for speaking out about what he did than he is for what he did in Iraq. He was following orders (though that didn't help Eichmann). And, to judge from the fact that Joe Darby is in protective custody to this day, Joe Darby is in more danger for what he did than MacBeth is for what he did. Yet for all the unspeakable evil that Jessie MacBeth perpetrated in following orders in Iraq and Charles Graner did at Abu Ghraib, it is as nothing compared with what Bush and Rumsfeld and others did in leading the USA to war against Iraq on the basis of false intelligence. And a litany of subsequent perversions/subversions of justice that led to situations where Jessie MacBeth could simply be following orders and Charles Graner could feel he was doing his job acceptably. But the USA has a hero in Joe Darby. A real one. Because he had the guts to do the right thing. I see it is 111 degrees fahrenheit in Baghdad today. ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 07:50:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: payments for readings In-Reply-To: <002b01c6c0f4$6b0f0ee0$74de9e04@D48XR971> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Your right. What you are talking about probably is a rationalization. We need to find more equitable ways of getting poets paid not only for reading their works or "performing" them but actually for having them printed and even, dare I say?, for writing them. Brigid Murnaghan had a wonderful poem about this problem I published in an old Tamarind many moons ago. If it's still out there floating around somewhere, I invite anyone to put it on the web, even in this discussion, if that is agreeable to all parties. I suspect Ms. Murnaghan wouldn't mind a new audience for her old ideas. Fluffy Singler wrote: I do agree with the idea that it's good for your writing to have to work, if only because it's important to have contact with "normal" people--people who aren't artists and also slog their way through day jobs they hate to fund whatever their passions may be. I often worry that such an attitude is just a rationalization for the fact that I can't get paid for what I do or that I don't have the "hustle" to be able to do so. And as I get older, it's just harder mentally to do work I don't care about, and my energy level is winding down to be able to do one thing 40 hours a week and the thing I care about another 20, 40 or 50 hours a week. -----Original Message----- From: Jason Quackenbush [mailto:jfq@MYUW.NET] Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 3:18 PM Subject: Re: payments for readings > A bookstore or bar is NOT doing you a favor to let you be an attraction > for them to bring in paying customers--that should be a reciprocally > beneficial deal for which you are paid. We need to teach the world to > stop thinking of poetry as a pro bono art form. While I agree, and it's one of the reasons i stopped reading at and even hanging around at poetry slams, at the same time, part of the problem with it being difficult to get paid for poetry (i know people who can make a living giving readings, or at least claim to, but they are never very forthcoming when i ask them how it is that they got to that point) is that there aren't very many people willing to pay for poetry. having reconciled myself that i'll never make a living from writing, i have come to recognize that it's actually good for my writing that i have to work a day job. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 07:59:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: FW: Media Escort in L.A. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit found on another list, you hire someone to go around to local Barnes & Nobles with you as you gather names to supply to your publicist? all best, Catherine . I've posted a profile of a L.A.-based media escort I used during my debut year on www.murderati.com. The escort, Ken Wilson, was excellent. I hired him myself for a couple of hundred dollars (that was back in 2004), and he took me around to about 14 chain bookstores in a day, introducing me to a number of managers and CRMS. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 09:10:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: LA Art Girls @ Dangerous Curve MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I wanted to let you know that the LA Art Girls are presenting a performative panel discussion this Wednesday, August 16th at Dangerous Curve gallery from 7-9pm. (see calendar below!) 1020 East Fourth Place (500 Molino Street #102)=20 Los Angeles, CA, U.S.A =20 www.dangerouscurve.org=20 =20 We will be discussing (over dinner) who and what the LA Art Girls are...and we may also address some ideas and questions about feminism today...with the many varied voices of the LA Art Girls, this promises to be quite an interesting evening. I hope you can join us! All the details are below!=20 =20 Best,=20 www.laartgirls.com=20 =20 =20 LA ART GIRLS BIO:=20 =20 The LA Art Girls evolved from informal gatherings, which started in 2004, as a means of encouraging discourse on contemporary art and as a way to introduce artists to other artists. The intentions of the LA Art Girls are to provide inspiration, support, dialogue and feedback to one another. As a body, LA Art Girls recognizes the autonomy of its members and resists the articulation of a coherent group identity or central theme. The group strives to be a voluntary and non-hierarchical gathering of practices. While the LA Art Girls started as a discussion group, it has evolved to embody a variety of different roles. The LA Art Girls have made collective artworks, we have shown individual work = in group shows, we have curated shows, hosted panel discussions, and soon, = a radio show. The LA Art Girls have done projects with QED gallery, Anna Helwing Gallery, The Getty Center, and LACE. Upcoming projects include a Radio Show for KBCH in Long Beach, and a group exhibition in the project room at Angles. While there are over 30 members of the LA Art Girls at = this time, a lesser number participates in the collaborative projects on a self-selecting basis.=20 =20 =20 ON AUGUST 16TH, THE LA ART GIRLS WILL PARTICIPATE IN:=20 =20 The New New School Two-Week Summer Intensive=20 at Dangerous Curve an Experimental Exhibition and Live Art/Visual Art Performance Space=20 =20 1020 East Fourth Place (500 Molino Street #102)=20 Los Angeles, CA, U.S.A.=20 =20 We're located at 1020 East Fourth Place, between Molino and Mateo Streets, in the back of the 500 Molino Street Lofts, #102, between the Fourth Street Bridge's (on the LA River side of downtown) two on/off ramps.=20 See our website for directions, pictures, and updates. =20 =20 =20 Summer Intensive Schedule=20 =20 AUGUST 16th: THE LA ART GIRLS!!! The LA Art Girls, a non-competitive collective of 30+ women, will have a "Dinner Party," so that they may present their work and collective activities, along with discussions = about being a female, and an artist, in Los Angeles. Yes, you get to = participate in this one! They promise treats and surprises.=20 =20 August 17th: Justin Hansch, founder/director of Justin's Museum of Contemporary Art (JMOCA), an exhibition place based in and around Hansch's Los Angeles home, will expound on the inevitability of collaboration, = friendship in the arts, and the role of the accessory in artistic production.=20 =20 August 18th: Music Night. Bands TBA curated by Oscar Santos. Check for updates. $5-10.00 sliding scale fundraiser for the school.=20 =20 August 19th: Beer Can Races! Beer Can Racers are an outrageous new sport sweeping the nation! John Knuth will lead a workshop on how you, too, can build and race your own beer-can-powered racecars. Build your very own car and learn the official rules of the race. If you can, bring a own coping saw, hammer, and a six-pack of beer, in cans. Patent pending.=20 =20 August 20th: Tired of being told your performance art is boring and self-indulgent? Don't want to be "theatrical"? Learn some body awareness techniques that will make you much more watchable, without compromising your visual artist's concept. Do some simple Kundalini Yoga to get your brain in creativity mode. Then do some art with ArsFidelis !=20 =20 August 21st: Jamie Chan and Jasmine Little will talk about their "untitled (title TBA)" AKA "Giant Rock Fort II," their artist residency program that will be inside the gallery at Dangerous Curve for duration of the NNS summer intensive. They're building a fort-like structure = equipped with amenities and supplies for making work, sleeping, drinking/eating, poker tournaments, etc. You can apply for a 24-hour slot to inhabit the fort. Email jamiec5@ucla.edu with the date you prefer and a short description of your past work.=20 =20 August 22nd: Mark Allen, an artist, educator, curator, and founder/director of Machine Project , a non-profit performance/installation space for art, technology, natural history, science, and poetry, will discuss Machine's illustrious history, = fantastical events, and mysterious collaborators, the creation, care, and feeding of non-profit and post-profit art spaces, the informal and semi-formal education of artists and other interested parties.=20 =20 August 23rd: Hannah Greely, preeminent sculptor, will be presenting three short videos and a textunder the theme of tyranny enabling creative freedom, including "The Subconcious Art of Graffiti Removal" by award-winning filmmaker Matt McCormick. Alex Black, a musician and graduate of UCLA in anthropology, will discuss internet ephemera, specifically videos collected from the websites Youtube and Revver.=20 =20 August 24th: Tif Sigfrids, a UCLA alum, artist and musician, will lead a workshop on wood burning techniques. Tim Quinn, co-director of Dangerous Curve, will lead a workshop on recursive Sculpey techniques. Anna Kim, installation artist, will lead a "stretch your toesies" workshop. There'll also be a feet-pampering station with different herbal baths.=20 =20 August 25th: Music Night. Bands TBA curated by Oscar Santos. Check for updates. $5-10.00 sliding scale fundraiser for the school.=20 =20 September 1st: Music Night/Dance Party. Bands TBA curated by Oscar Santos. Check for updates. $5-10.00 sliding scale fundraiser for the school.=20 =20 September 2nd: Wrap up with a Rachel Mason lecturing on the history of Hapsburg family, a video screening of documentation of the summer intensive, and a panel discussion with = TBA. Visit for updates/changes and subscribe to our email list to get announcements. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 12:32:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Side Subject: A. C. Evans interview at The Argotist Online Comments: To: british-poets@jiscmail.ac.uk, wryting-l@listserv.wvu.edu In this interview A. C. Evans makes some controversial statements critical of experimental poetry. In a few weeks an article by him elaborating on these statements will appear on the site along with a rebuttal by Luke Kennard. http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Evans%20interview.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 12:24:59 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joshua Wilkinson Subject: Emails? Nakayasu / Nguyen / Rankine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, friends, could anybody help out with some email addresses? for: Sawako Nakayasu, Hoa Nguyen, and Claudia Rankine? please channel back-- gazillion thanks, joshua __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 12:29:37 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eric Dickey Subject: Re: payments for readings In-Reply-To: <11d43b500608160722v4d529074n9ccebda60e73d249@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On the subject, To Topos is taking submissions for its issue on Poetry and Poverty to which I know many of us can speak. The issue will feature an introduction by Michael Parenti and will be guest edited by Karen Holmberg. Please consider supporting our fine journal. for details: http://oregonstate.edu/dept/foreign_lang/totopos/index.html Moreover, this discussion reminds me of a poem by Han Shan in which someone criticizes his poetics. Han Shan responds with something like, "people like him should stick to making money." I have no problems passing the hat after a reading, or giving the audience an opportunity to purchase an inexpensive, short chapbook. (Most non-poet audiences are reluctant to buy a $15 full-length book, but will easily drop $3 to $5 for a chapbook. If it's money that I'm after, it's really not that difficult to get it. If being paid for my craft is what I'm after, I have to be creative about what I consider payment. And of course, I have to be more selective in which events to participate. All this discussion brings up many reasons to remind you to invest in To Topos: Poetry International by purchasing copies or a subscription and by submitting your original work or work in translation. The Contemporary Hungarian Poetry issue contains my introduction exploring the motives of American poets compared to Hungarian poets, laying the blame on the consumerist raison d'etre mentality of our society. If you haven't explored the Hungarian tradition, you're missing out. Our forthcoming issue is on Indigenous Americas: Poetry by Indigenous Peoples of the Western Hemisphere and is guest edited by Allison Hedge Coke. It should be out this fall. Please consider supporting our fine journal. I've sent copies to Murat Nemet-Nejat and to Ron Silliman. Of course, Ron thinks that a thematic production of poetry may as well be about cats, so I don't know how he received our Hungarian issue. Is that Cats or cats? I don't know, but see his 6/9/06 entry. I agree with him, poets should be for poetry first, not money, not social justice, not anything but poetry. However, we humans like to sort our beans to yield manageable harvests. for details on To Topos: http://oregonstate.edu/dept/foreign_lang/totopos/index.html Best, Eric Wayne Dickey heidi arnold wrote: Fluffy Singler to POETICS More options 1:25 amI do agree with the idea that it's good for your writing to have to work, if only because it's important to have contact with "normal" people--people who aren't artists and also slog their way through day jobs they hate to fund whatever their passions may be. --there is the saying among the desert monastics that the monks who refused to work for their food weren't able to meditate competently -- i think they actually locked a couple bartlebys out of their cells or something -- anyway -- which suggests a deeper relationship between work and poetry than just money -- in that case work was defined as cottage industries to produce things that could be eaten or else sold for food -- but in rural communities you have this sort of thing -- --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 17:46:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: info Subject: payments for readings MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I've had an idea about this kicking around my head for a while now. People who write music and lyrics register with ASCAP or BMI, both of which collect money from all venues where music is hear (clubs, restaurants, radio) then pay out the money to the composers and lyric writers. There are flaws with the system, which are easily google-able- Madonna probably gets more of her share of the money at the expense of small timers. But, it may be a workable system if one stays on top of it and reports whenever they get indie radio play or performs at clubs. SO why not register poems as lyrics then try to use that system? I'm it wouldn't be much but it would be something. I've registered but haven't tried this yet with poems. Writing about this reminds me to try though... At least it's a practical attempt to find a solution. Andrea Baker ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 23:33:31 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Will Montgomery Subject: Fwd: Susan Howe Conference Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed Hi all Here's a cfp for a UK conference that will be of interest to many here. Best Will Begin forwarded message: > Call for Papers > > Susan Howe: A Celebration > > The University of Sussex in conjunction with the University of =20 > Southampton will be hosting a conference on the work of the poet =20 > Susan Howe on June 18th and 19th 2007. This two-day event will =20 > include a reading by and panel discussion with the poet herself, =20 > and a performance by the experimental musician, David Grubbs, with =20 > whom she has recently collaborated on a series of interdisciplinary =20= > projects. > > Susan Howe is a unique figure in twentieth century poetry. Her =20 > work came to prominence in the early 1990s in association with the =20 > American Language poets, but quickly set its own agenda outside =20 > these parameters. =46rom her first career as an artist, Howe brought =20= > an intense sensitivity to the visual dimensions of the text, =20 > producing a diverse body of work that has continually probed the =20 > borders between poetry and other disciplines and media. In its =20 > unorthodox readings of the American canon, its obsessive interest =20 > in history and what the official narratives of history exclude, =20 > Howe=92s work is unrelenting in its capacity to surprise and =20 > stimulate us. > > In this, the first conference devoted to her work, we aim to =20 > recognize the impact Howe=92s writing has had on contemporary =20 > poetics, and to provide a focus for new critical approaches to her =20 > poetry. > > We invite proposals for 20 minute papers on any aspect of Susan =20 > Howe=92s work. Please send an abstract of no more than 250 words to =20= > both Christina Makris and Catherine Martin by September 25th 2006. > > Email: howeconference@hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 16:24:33 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jennifer Karmin Subject: www.groupsandspaces.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Interested in the cultures of collaboration and collectivity within group practice? Check out http://www.groupsandspaces.net Help to build a database of people working in creative groups, collectives and movements. ********************************************* Dear enthusiasts of group work and collaboration: Temporary Services has worked as a group since late in 1998. We are interested in the cultures of collaboration and collectivity within group practice. While much recent attention has been given to these ways of working, few substantial documents have been produced that reflect the amount of work that has been accomplished. There is also a need for more writing on the inner dynamics of the group process: how collaborations are formed, how decisions are made, how conflict is resolved, and so on. We are compiling the names, locations, and dates (when available) of art and arts-related groups, which can include those who work as curatorial collectives. We would like your help! The list will be published in a book we are working on titled Group Work. The book will include interviews, quotes about working together, lists of words used to describe the numerous ways in which we group ourselves, and a list of historic and currently active groups. The list will also be a part of a larger initiative called Groups and Spaces that several people have contributed to. Groups and Spaces includes groups of one person (who still chooses to work under a group name), couples who work as a group, groups of three or more people, and open networks that are named, but aren't necessarily a collective or more circumscribed group. We would like your help to develop this list and make it as comprehensive as possible. Please visit http://www.groupsandspaces.net to see the list of groups and to submit names of groups not listed, corrections to information already posted, or any suggestions you have to make the list better. The list is still under construction, but is public and accessible to all. A more sophisticated, searchable database and sets of research tools are planned for the site after this preliminary list making is over. Thank you, Temporary Services (Brett Bloom, Salem Collo-Julin, Marc Fischer) http://www.temporaryservices.org P.S. -- Please forward this widely so many people can see it and contribute. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 00:32:45 +0000 Reply-To: Robin Purves Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Purves Subject: New booklet: Being a Human Being and other poems by Tom Leonard MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii New from Object Permanence: Being a Human Being and other poems by Tom Leonard. 24pp A5 stapled, GBP 2.50 including postage and packing in UK only. ISBN 0-9529972-3-1. Tom Leonard lives and works in Glasgow. His publications include Intimate Voices and access to the silence (both published by etruscan books). His own website is www.tomleonard.co.uk Follow this link to read the poem "Being a Human Being" (for Mordechai Vanunu) at the Scottish Poetry Library website: http://www.spl.org.uk/poets_a-z/leonard.html. Ordering information: UK customers please send a cheque payable to Robin Purves to: Robin Purves Object Permanence First Floor 16 Ruskin Terrace Glasgow G12 8DY Scotland All cheques must be in Pounds Sterling and drawn on a UK bank. Payments can also be made through PayPal (overseas customers please add GBP 1 postage and packing per book). Please send payments to the following email address: robinpurves@yahoo.co.uk Apologies for cross-posting -- all best, Peter Peter Manson's homepage: http://www.petermanson.com/ Object Permanence homepage: http://www.objectpermanence.co.uk/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 10:46:04 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: two veterans of the Iraq war In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Er - Jim - Jessie Macbeth is an exposed hoax. Check out the Veterans Against the War site, I think they have some details. It has caused much schadenfreude among right wing bloggers, and quite possibly was put out to discredit the real stories of atrocities. Beware. Best A On 8/17/06, Jim Andrews wrote: > > http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=2318457&page=1 > Joe Darby, the "whistle blower" at Abu Ghraib, speaks out. He acted > bravely > in sending those photos to the Army Criminal Investigation Division. He > was > still at Abu Ghraib when Donald Rumsfeld announced his name on television. > Surely Rumsfeld must have known that he was still at Abu Ghraib. > > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6232757351172260101&q=war > And here is Jessie MacBeth, another veteran of the Iraq war. Jessie > estimates he killed 200 people when he was there, many of them women and > children, many of them with a bullet to the head at close range. Jessie is > ashamed of himself and ashamed of his country and is speaking out against > what the USA is doing in Iraq. > > Jessie MacBeth is probably in more danger for speaking out about what he > did > than he is for what he did in Iraq. He was following orders (though that > didn't help Eichmann). And, to judge from the fact that Joe Darby is in > protective custody to this day, Joe Darby is in more danger for what he > did > than MacBeth is for what he did. > > Yet for all the unspeakable evil that Jessie MacBeth perpetrated in > following orders in Iraq and Charles Graner did at Abu Ghraib, it is as > nothing compared with what Bush and Rumsfeld and others did in leading the > USA to war against Iraq on the basis of false intelligence. And a litany > of > subsequent perversions/subversions of justice that led to situations where > Jessie MacBeth could simply be following orders and Charles Graner could > feel he was doing his job acceptably. > > But the USA has a hero in Joe Darby. A real one. Because he had the guts > to > do the right thing. > > I see it is 111 degrees fahrenheit in Baghdad today. > > ja > http://vispo.com > -- Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 18:13:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: two veterans of the Iraq war In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You're right. I see information on it at http://www.ivaw.net/index.php?id=219 My mistake for not checking the internet more widely for verification. ja http://vispo.com > Er - Jim - Jessie Macbeth is an exposed hoax. Check out the > Veterans Against > the War site, I think they have some details. It has caused much > schadenfreude among right wing bloggers, and quite possibly was put out to > discredit the real stories of atrocities. Beware. > > Best > > A > > On 8/17/06, Jim Andrews wrote: > > > > http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=2318457&page=1 > > Joe Darby, the "whistle blower" at Abu Ghraib, speaks out. He acted > > bravely > > in sending those photos to the Army Criminal Investigation Division. He > > was > > still at Abu Ghraib when Donald Rumsfeld announced his name on > television. > > Surely Rumsfeld must have known that he was still at Abu Ghraib. > > > > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6232757351172260101&q=war > > And here is Jessie MacBeth, another veteran of the Iraq war. Jessie > > estimates he killed 200 people when he was there, many of them women and > > children, many of them with a bullet to the head at close > range. Jessie is > > ashamed of himself and ashamed of his country and is speaking > out against > > what the USA is doing in Iraq. > > > > Jessie MacBeth is probably in more danger for speaking out about what he > > did > > than he is for what he did in Iraq. He was following orders (though that > > didn't help Eichmann). And, to judge from the fact that Joe Darby is in > > protective custody to this day, Joe Darby is in more danger for what he > > did > > than MacBeth is for what he did. > > > > Yet for all the unspeakable evil that Jessie MacBeth perpetrated in > > following orders in Iraq and Charles Graner did at Abu Ghraib, it is as > > nothing compared with what Bush and Rumsfeld and others did in > leading the > > USA to war against Iraq on the basis of false intelligence. And a litany > > of > > subsequent perversions/subversions of justice that led to > situations where > > Jessie MacBeth could simply be following orders and Charles Graner could > > feel he was doing his job acceptably. > > > > But the USA has a hero in Joe Darby. A real one. Because he had the guts > > to > > do the right thing. > > > > I see it is 111 degrees fahrenheit in Baghdad today. > > > > ja > > http://vispo.com > > > > > > -- > Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au > Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com > Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 19:57:45 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brandi Homan Subject: Gatewood Prize deadline extended MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all, The deadline for the Gatewood Prize has been extended to October 1, 2006! Details are below. All best, Brandi Homan Editor-in-Chief, Switchback Books Information on the Gatewood Prize Judge: Arielle Greenberg The Gatewood Prize is Switchback Books' annual competition for a first full-length collection of poems by a woman writing in English between the ages of 18 and 39. Guidelines for the Gatewood Prize Switchback Books editors will select at least 10 finalists and a judge will select the prizewinner, who will be recognized with a cash prize of $1000 and publication by Switchback Books. Manuscripts remain anonymous until a winner is selected. General Terms: - Poet must be a woman between the ages of 18 and 39 - Writers who have had chapbooks of less than 42 pages printed in editions of no more than 400 copies are eligible - Students and former students of this year's judge may not enter; close friends of the judge are also not considered eligible - Entry fee of $20 must accompany each submission; make check payable to Switchback Books. Fee entitles entrant to a copy of the winning book. Please enclose a self-addressed 8 x 10 envelope with $1.42 postage to receive a copy - Multiple manuscript submissions are acceptable, but each manuscript must be entered under a separate cover, with a separate entry fee - Simultaneous submissions are acceptable; please let us know immediately if your manuscript is accepted by another publisher while under our consideration - No revisions to submitted manuscripts will be considered; the winning manuscript may be revised before publication - Translations ineligible Manuscript Requirements - Between 48 and 80 pages of poetry, paginated - Include two cover pages: one with title of the manuscript only, the other with title of manuscript, name, address, telephone number, and email address - No other cover letter necessary - No acknowledgments page - Anonymous (do not include your name anywhere on the manuscript itself) Notification: - Enclose an SAS-postcard for confirmation of receipt of manuscript - Enclose an SASE for notification of winner - Do not enclose an SASE for return of manuscript; all manuscripts will be recycled at end of contest term - International submissions must include US postage; IRCs will not be honored. Go to www.usps.com to purchase US postage Deadline: Envelope must be postmarked on or before October 1, 2006 Mail manuscript and entry fee to: The Gatewood Prize Switchback Books PO Box 478868 Chicago, IL 60647 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 00:13:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Ciccariello Subject: Route 6A Poem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Route 6A Poem *http://tinyurl.com/nz6b9* -- Peter Ciccariello http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/ http://uncommonvision.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 06:02:59 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tim Peterson Subject: testing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed testing ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 06:39:41 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Herb Levy Subject: Re: payments for readings In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit info wrote: > I've had an idea about this kicking around my head for a while now. People > who write music and lyrics register with ASCAP or BMI, both of which collect > money from all venues where music is hear (clubs, restaurants, radio) then > pay out the money to the composers and lyric writers. There are flaws with > the system, which are easily google-able- Madonna probably gets more of her > share of the money at the expense of small timers. But, it may be a > workable system if one stays on top of it and reports whenever they get > indie radio play or performs at clubs. SO why not register poems as lyrics > then try to use that system? I'm it wouldn't be much but it would be > something. I've registered but haven't tried this yet with poems. Writing > about this reminds me to try though... At least it's a practical attempt to > find a solution. > > Andrea Baker > > I run a CD label that's released works by a couple of dozen composers of various flavors of avant garde music & have some experience in dealing with both BMI & ASCAP. Given that the "google-able" flaws in this system often involve lack of payments for composers who sell 2,000-50,000 copies of their recordings, perform between 50 and 200 nights a year, and get airplay on hundreds of "alternative rock" stations around the US, and rarely include tales of composers who sell less than 500 copies of a recording, have works performed less than a few dozen times in a year and/or get played on a handful of 1-2 hour specialty programs on a handful of radio stations across the United States, the use-value of adapting this system for poets seems questionable to me. Add to that the difficulty in getting either of these performing rights organizations to recognize non-musical work that's not published in the usual ways that music is, and the task seems that much more daunting. But, hey . ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 09:05:35 -0400 Reply-To: junction@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: testing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit passed -----Original Message----- >From: Tim Peterson >Sent: Aug 17, 2006 2:02 AM >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: testing > >testing ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 07:03:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Clear Lake - Knocoti MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 23:13:52 -0500 From: Aaron Belz Subject: clear lake I want to go to Clear Lake again and buy that house we explored before you started dating a minstrel and I invested heavily in clowns, =20 because... Knocoti: http://www.cddc.vt.edu/host/weishaus/Poetry/konocti.htm -Joel ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 07:03:45 -0700 Reply-To: Michael Tod Edgerton Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Tod Edgerton Subject: The Book of Disquiet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I want to finally remedy the Pessoa gap in my reading. Anyone have any helpful thoughts on the pros and cons of the different versions/translations, Zenith/Penguin, Costa/Serpent's Tail, Mac Adam's/Exact Change, and any others that out there? I remember someone once saying something about the Zenith version, but can't remember now whether that was a "the best bet" or "as long as you avoid that one..." remark. Thanks! Tod Michael Tod Edgerton Poet-in-Residence, Spring 2006 Stonehill College __________________ Peter Kaplan Memorial Fellow, 2004 - 2006 Program in Literary Arts Brown University "There's the mute probability of a reciprocal lack of understanding" - Mei-mei Berssenbrugge ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 12:30:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: TONIGHT/Boog City's Third Annual Small, Small Press Fair and Rachel Lipson Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable hi all, last call reminder to hear some of nyc's finest small press editors talk about, and read work from, their presses, plus some surprise guests reading= , too. And music from the delightful Rachel Lipson. best, david=20 ---------------- Boog City presents =20 d.a. levy lives: celebrating the renegade press =20 Season 4 Kick-off:=20 Third Annual Small, Small Press Fair Thurs. Aug. 17, 6:00 p.m., free ACA Galleries 529 W.20th St., 5th Flr. NYC with talks and readings by editors and contributors from: =20 Fence, co-editor Charles Valle and poetry editor Max Winter Fungo Monographs, editor and publisher Ryan Murphy Futurepoem books, editor and publisher Dan Machlin Hanging Loose Press, associate editor Marie Carter Kitchen Press, editor Justin Marks Lungfull, editor Brendan Lorber Open 24 Hours, editors John Coletti and Greg Fuchs Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs, editor Brenda Iijima Sona Books, editor Jill Magi and music from Rachel Lipson There will be wine, cheese, and fruit, too. =20 Curated and with an introduction by Boog City editor David Kirschenbaum For information call 212-842-BOOG (2664) * editor@boogcity.com Directions: C/E to 23rd St., 1/9 to 18th St. Venue is bet. 10th and 11th avenues =8B=8B=8B=8B=8B=8B *Boog City is a New York City-based small press now in its 15th year and East Village community newspaper of the same name. It has also published 35 volumes of poetry and various magazines, featuring work by Allen Ginsberg and Lawrence Ferlinghetti among others, and theme issues on baseball, women=B9s writing, and Louisville, KY. It hosts and curates two regular performance series--d.a. levy lives: celebrating the renegade press, where each month a non-NYC small press and its writers and a musical act of their choosing is hosted at Chelsea's ACA Galleries; and Classic Albums Live, where 5-13 local musical acts perform a classic album live at venues including The Bowery Poetry Club, CBGB's, and The Knitting Factory. Past albums have included Elvis Costello, My Aim is True; Nirvana, Nevermind; an= d Liz Phair, Exile in Guyville. *Fence Fabulously non-wealthy founding editor Rebecca Wolff launched Fence in 1998= , with the invaluable aid of her beloved compatriots Caroline Crumpacker, Jonathan Lethem, Frances Richard, and Matthew Rohrer. Max Winter signed up soon after and has the distinction of being the only non-original editor who's lasted more than a few years, so far. Read the history books: It's been a long steady roll down the hill of institutional derangement. Fence Books was launched in 2001 and continues to awe the caring populace with th= e genius it smacks between covers (French folds, at that). Support Fence! Current editors include brilliances Lynne Tillman, Christopher Stackhouse, Katy Lederer, and, last but far from least, Charles Valle, who keeps our little picket boat afloat. *Fungo Monographs is the publisher of "Seven Palms" by Kira Henehan, and belongs to a series of one-shot publications published at random intervals and inefficiently distributed. Jordan Davis has described Fungo Monographs and the collective one-shot series as: "perhaps the most perverse concept o= f branding yet to emerge from poetryland's anti-business-model incubator..." *Futurepoem publishes innovative prose, poetry and cross-genre literature b= y both emerging and underrepresented writers. Our rotating editorial panel shares the responsibility for selecting and helping to publicize the books that we publish. Before submitting work, we recommend perusing our previous titles as a good indication of the range of work that we like to publish. For more information on publications and submission guidelines, visit futurepoem.com and consider joining our mailing list. *Hanging Loose is celebrating its 40th anniversary this year. It is one of the oldest small literary presses in the country. The name was inspired by the format of the original magazine--mimeographed loose pages in a cover envelope--and that, in turn, was inspired by a very low budget. Effective with the 25th issue we abandoned that format to the relief of librarians an= d booksellers. =20 Early on, the Hanging Loose editors decided we were not interested in begging poems from famous writers but in stressing work by new writers and older writers whose work deserved a larger audience. =20 The editors are proud of having published many first books, including the first full collections by Sherman Alexie, Kimiko Hahn, D. Nurkse, Jack Ag=FCeros, Elinor Nauen, Joanna Fuhrman, Maggie Nelson, Indran Amirthanayagam= , and Beth Bosworth, among others. Some of the other writers published by HL are Wilma Elizabeth McDaniel, Frances Phillips, Harvey Shapiro, Jayne Cortez, Ron Overton, Helen Adam, Paul Violi, Charles North, Ha Jin, Morton Marcus, Maureen Owen, Donna Brook, Yukihide Hartman, Jack Anderson and Ed Friedman. *Kitchen Press is a micro-press run out of Hell's Kitchen, NYC, and is a member of CLMP. It's purpose is to publish quality handmade chapbooks by emerging poets.=20 *Rachel Lipson is a Brooklyn-based songwriter who performs her simple, honest songs on guitar (and sometimes ukulele and banjo). Born near Detroit= , MI, she spent her childhood building forts with her brother and sister in the living room, contemplating the dangers of the dark and pizza deliverers= , riding horses and playing with friends. Rachel first picked up a guitar at age 16 and a few years later, after having moved to New York, began craftin= g the songs that would make up her first album, This Way, which she self-released the next year. In 2003 Rachel released a 7" with Rough Trade recording artist Jeffrey Lewis, on Holland's Nowhere Fast record label and self-released her second album Some More Songs. She toured Europe for seven weeks with Lewis and Herman D=FCne in the summer, including the Mofo festival in Paris in July. In the fall, Rachel recorded a new album at Olive Juice Studios in New York for her latest release Pastures on Meccico Records, a U= K label founded and run by members of Cornershop. In the last few years, Rachel has collaborated and performed extensively with Leah Hayes (of La Laque and Scary Mansion), Herman D=FCne and others and has played alongside Eugene Chadbourne, Kimya Dawson, Daniel Johnston, The Mountain Goats and Refrigerator, as well as twice performing live on WFMU in New Jersey and on WNYC, a division of NPR. Rachel Lipson's music combines a sort of radical simplicity and honesty with intricately woven narratives. The lyrics seem t= o have as much to do with William Faulkner as they do with Woody Guthrie. The music recalls the earliest folk traditions and yet speaks at the same time to a contemporary minimal aesthetic. While sometimes the approach is blindingly direct and at others masterfully oblique, the overall effect is irresistible, one of invitingly gentle beauty and clarity. *Lungfull! Magazine is the waterproof brainchild of editor Brendan Lorber. Featuring an impeccably glossy cover and usually illustrated by Lorber's drawings (which quite often include sketches of poets reading publicly), th= e magazine is unique in that it juxtaposes the first draft of a work with the published version, and includes an extensive "working note" by writers. It'= s highly compelling to examine where a writer began with an idea, and how s/h= e took that idea into a finished poem. And the first drafts present an enormous range: from scribbled drawings on napkins, to just-about-finished typed poems that apparently sprang out full-blown, like Athena from the hea= d of Zeus. Contributors include Bill Berkson, Eileen Myles, Alice Notley, Wal= t Whitman, and Emily Dickinson. *Open 24 Hours is dedicated to publishing limited edition books by poets working in traditions rooted in experimentation and social engagement. The Open 24 Hours design is influenced by the staple-bound mimeo revolution of the American small press underground most visibly recognized in the books published by many 2nd- and 3rd-generation New York School Poets. We have simply adapted the method to digital technology. Open 24 Hours has published books by Mariana Ruiz Firmat, Corina Copp, Bets= y Fagin, Joel Dailey, Chris Toll, and Steve Carey. Forthcoming are books by Erica Kaufman, Arlo Quint, Will Yakulic, and Dustin Williamson. Open 24 Hours is based in New York City, edited and designed by John Colett= i and Greg Fuchs. Jon Allen is our in-house illustrator. We took the name fro= m D.C. poet Buck Downs, who published a poetry zine by the same name. Downs inherited Open 24 Hours from Baltimore poet Chris Toll, who started it in 1980. *Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs endeavors to publish works that possess a vitality and holistically consider emotional and political realms to say th= e least. Works that venture out beyond writing program platforms and communit= y expectations. Works that have substantiality in the way of vision. *Sona Books, run out of Brooklyn, is a community-based chapbook press with = a corresponding web magazine, published about two times a year, at www.sonaweb.net. Sona Books publishes works that are quiet, risky, experimental, collaborative, hybrid, and sometimes rough around the edges. The press seeks ways to reach wide audiences and to teach non-poets about so-called "difficult" poetries and prose works; to this end, the press runs a subscription series, publishes bulletins entitled "how to read a Sona Book," and encourages writers to publish process notes. It's the goal of Sona Books to stay small, to reach out to poets whose projects may be "unde= r the radar," to facilitate self-publishing exchanges among writers, and to affirm generative relationships between editor and writer. =8B=8B=8B=8B=8B=8B =20 http://www.fencemag.com/v9n1/ http://www.futurepoem.com/ http://www.hangingloosepress.com/ http://www.kitchenpresschapbooks.blogspot.com/ http://lungfull.org/ Open 24 Hours: greg@gregfuchs.com or acoldgobot@hotmail.com http://www.sonaweb.net/brendaiijima.htm http://www.sonaweb.net/ http://www.rachellipson.org/ http://www.myspace.com/rachellipson Next event: Sat. Sept. 9, at KGB Bar Cy Press (Cincinnati) and Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs (Brooklyn, NY) =8B=20 David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 12:45:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: payments for readings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit it's not about being for money first sorry so many have missed this point money is a strong metaphor i was talking about the scenario in which this all occured ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 10:30:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Subject: Re: The Book of Disquiet Comments: To: Michael Tod Edgerton In-Reply-To: <20060817140345.60431.qmail@web54202.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael--- I won't get into the Book of Disquiet debates right now, but personally I think the best place to start with Pessoa is that 50 (or is it 70) page selection translated by Chris Daniels in a recent CRAYON magazine----I know it's just an excerpt in a literary journal, but it's so long and substantial it feels like a Pessoa book, and a great introduction to a more DYNAMIC, in my opinion, Pessoa than the B of D....C On Aug 17, 2006, at 7:03 AM, Michael Tod Edgerton wrote: > I want to finally remedy the Pessoa gap in my reading. Anyone have > any helpful thoughts on the pros and cons of the different versions/ > translations, Zenith/Penguin, Costa/Serpent's Tail, Mac Adam's/ > Exact Change, and any others that out there? I remember someone > once saying something about the Zenith version, but can't remember > now whether that was a "the best bet" or "as long as you avoid that > one..." remark. > > Thanks! > > Tod > > Michael Tod Edgerton > Poet-in-Residence, Spring 2006 > Stonehill College > __________________ > > Peter Kaplan Memorial Fellow, 2004 - 2006 > Program in Literary Arts > Brown University > > "There's the mute probability of a reciprocal lack of understanding" > - Mei-mei Berssenbrugge ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 20:33:51 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: The Book of Disquiet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 08/17/06 1:31:33 PM, cstroffo@EARTHLINK.NET writes: > Michael--- > I won't get into the Book of Disquiet debates right now, but=A0 > personally I think the best place to start with Pessoa is > that 50 (or is it 70) page selection translated by Chris Daniels in a=A0 > recent CRAYON magazine----I know it's just an excerpt in a literary=A0 > journal, but it's so long and substantial it feels like a Pessoa=A0 > book, and a great introduction to a more DYNAMIC, in my opinion,=A0 > Pessoa than the B of D....C > On Aug 17, 2006, at 7:03 AM, Michael Tod Edgerton wrote: >=20 >=20 I second this choice. Murat ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 10:19:11 +0900 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Hugh Nicoll Subject: Re: The Book of Disquiet In-Reply-To: <3f2.811bc0f.321664ef@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Does anyone have an email address for Bob Harrison? The Crayon website lists only a postal address for ordering. Thanks, Hugh Nicoll, Miyazaki, Japan On 8/18/06, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > > In a message dated 08/17/06 1:31:33 PM, cstroffo@EARTHLINK.NET writes: > > > > Michael--- > > I won't get into the Book of Disquiet debates right now, but > > personally I think the best place to start with Pessoa is > > that 50 (or is it 70) page selection translated by Chris Daniels in a > > recent CRAYON magazine----I know it's just an excerpt in a literary > > journal, but it's so long and substantial it feels like a Pessoa > > book, and a great introduction to a more DYNAMIC, in my opinion, > > Pessoa than the B of D....C > > On Aug 17, 2006, at 7:03 AM, Michael Tod Edgerton wrote: > > > > > > I second this choice. > > Murat > -- Hugh Nicoll JALT Director of Membership http://hughnicoll.org/blog/ hnicoll@gmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 18:57:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jennifer Karmin Subject: STOP deportation for Elvira Arellano MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I am not a criminal. I am not a terrorist. I am a mother and a worker. -- from a statement by Elvira Arellano, immigrant rights activist ************************************* Three blocks from my apartment, Elvira and her son Saul have taken refuge in a small store-front church. Elvira is actively disobeying an order by the Department of Homeland Security to turn herself in for deportation. One of my 8th grade poetry students tells me, "She is our Rosa Parks." Everyday, we both visit Elvira at the church. CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE: Refusal to obey governmental demands or commands especially as a nonviolent and usually collective means of forcing concessions from the government Elvira is a well-known Chicago leader of undocumented workers. President of La Familia Latina Unida, she recently lead a Mother's Day hunger strike demanding that President Bush call a moratorium on "raids, deportations and separations of families" until the Senate and the Congress come to a resolution of this nation's broken immigration laws. In past years, I have invited Elvira to be my guest speaker at Truman College and at community-art events I organize with Anti Gravity Surprise. She has openly shared her story with all who want to listen: the dangers of crossing the border, the difficulties of being a single mom, the raids after 9/11, the false promises from politicians. But, Elvira Arellano is the real promise. The promise of a movement to organize workers for equality and justice. *****WAYS TO HELP***** *Call Senators Obama and Durbin. Ask them to pass private bill HR 1628. Senator Obama -- Chicago office 312-886-3506 -- Washington office 202-224-2854 Senator Durbin -- Chicago office 312-353-4952 -- Washington office 202-224-2152 *Donations of water, food, money, and your time can be brought to Adalberto United Methodist Church, 2176 W. Division Street. *Send other ideas to Roberto Lopez. rlopez@somosunpueblo.com Onwards, Jennifer Karmin http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/custom/photos/chi-060814deport,1,3848429.story?coll=chi-homepagenews-utl __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 21:16:19 -0700 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 16 Aug 2006 to 17 Aug 2006 (#2006-230) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit to get into the Book of Disquiet debates I like Margaret Jull Costa's translation because of her subtle agenda and I bought it for $1 Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 00:33:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: The Book of Disquiet In-Reply-To: <18e6c0c00608171819k4733b010y56c28cf8562bbdee@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed yes--it's boharr@earthlink.net (i know bob as we both live here in milwaukee; i contributed to issues 1 and 3--the Pessoa issue is great) >From: Hugh Nicoll >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: The Book of Disquiet >Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 10:19:11 +0900 > >Does anyone have an email address for Bob Harrison? The Crayon website >lists >only a postal address for ordering. > >Thanks, > >Hugh Nicoll, >Miyazaki, Japan > >On 8/18/06, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: >> >>In a message dated 08/17/06 1:31:33 PM, cstroffo@EARTHLINK.NET writes: >> >> >> > Michael--- >> > I won't get into the Book of Disquiet debates right now, but >> > personally I think the best place to start with Pessoa is >> > that 50 (or is it 70) page selection translated by Chris Daniels in a >> > recent CRAYON magazine----I know it's just an excerpt in a literary >> > journal, but it's so long and substantial it feels like a Pessoa >> > book, and a great introduction to a more DYNAMIC, in my opinion, >> > Pessoa than the B of D....C >> > On Aug 17, 2006, at 7:03 AM, Michael Tod Edgerton wrote: >> > >> > >> >>I second this choice. >> >>Murat >> > > > >-- >Hugh Nicoll >JALT Director of Membership >http://hughnicoll.org/blog/ >hnicoll@gmail.com _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 23:10:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Subject: Re: payments for readings In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ah, Joel--- Thanks for this. It was many years ago I remember (fondly) you telling me you thought I was kinda crazy that I would fly to Chicago and SF (from Philly and/or NYC) to take a loss and read for free.... C On Aug 15, 2006, at 11:02 PM, joel s lewis wrote: > One of the things, seems to me, that killed off fees for a reading > was the proliferation of mega bookstore readings (less important > in cities, but quite vital in suburban and small towns). When B&N > and Borders first came to North Jersey --readers would get gift > certificates, t-shirts, a day of reading employee discount and > carte blanche at the coffe bar. once, at a Borders, a manager gave > me thirty bucks out of petty cash! That stopped quickly and now you > are lucky if you get a coffe + you can't pass the hat. This lack of > non-payment seems to spread, as it used to be a point of honor for > an organizer to give the reader something. (And, once upon a time, > many small press magazines tries to pay 'something" for poems) > > Do we hurt ourselves as a community by our willingness to perform > too often for free--or too often, at a loss? Even at venues that > pay, say colleges, the $100 dollar max fee for a local well-known > poet seems set in stone from some point in late 60s (when, > according Lewis warsh) you could pay your rent and still have > something left over. > > There is a poetry series at Stevens Tech in Hoboken that doesn't > even buy the reader a coffee. I asked the organizer about maybe > paying poets and he responded he had dozens of people, many w/ some > rep, willing to read without a fee. > > Or maybe attitudes have changed as so many of us are working full > time (or, too often, all the time) and are less dependent on giving > readings to make ends meet. > > Joel Lewis ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 01:21:17 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AG Jorgensen Subject: Poetry and Politics In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit There was Ginsburg's style - and Creeley's. Two very different approaches. I mean, and I loved and love Creeley, but some of his work was, well, behind the scenes or anonymous - intensely caring, intimate, but less overtly political. Ginsburg was all hairy ape and naked human - and sometimes ugly, to some, media hog, to some, straight to the throat to others. What is the correct approach, one wonders. Can I get some public or back channel advice. The time is a different one, an urgency in the air, can we agree on this one - so much chaos - and really. Do I act publicly and risk damaging street cred - or do I gain street cred. Do I remember that poetry is about the reaffirmation of those ties that remind of us our connection to humanity - and the devine? One wants to do what is right, to create communitie, understanding that our place, this home, is immediate and only temporary. Silly question, perhaps. AGJ --- "Our best security, our only security, is in the world of ideas, and I sense a slight foreboding," he said.-- Justice Anthony Kennedy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 01:25:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AG Jorgensen Subject: American landscape is there openness In-Reply-To: <20060818082117.22116.qmail@web54608.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Where in the American landscape is there openness. Not supposed openness, but open poetry and, regardless of whatever bright lights, lights kept on for those seeking ways out of whatever darkness. Poetry, as we know, is a vocation. That cusp on which poets are ready to be Whitman-esque! I am a poet, damn it. AGJ --- "Our best security, our only security, is in the world of ideas, and I sense a slight foreboding," he said.-- Justice Anthony Kennedy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 09:25:17 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: susan maurer Subject: poetry motel Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed did poetry motel go under? they took a poem 2 yrs ago and have not reponded to 2 letters sent to hawaii address about its fate , unable to turn up email adress. susan maurer _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 10:34:34 -0400 Reply-To: Self-publishing@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Dr. Herbert Stern" Subject: Re: TIPS on PR for a new book In-Reply-To: <20060815160025.49333.qmail@web53903.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed My wife and I a couple of friends have been thinking long and hard about the question of self-publishing. We decided that one way to give self-publishing better legs was to start a highly selective cooperative press that printed quality books and that required the poet to pay production costs. We aren't trying to get rich -- there's no reading fee and poets get all royalties. (We're shooting for a run of 1000 (hand sewn, acid-free) for under $3,000.) Our first book, Loyalties, by Henry Braun, has enjoyed high praise from people like Nathaniel Tarn, Eleanor Wilnor, and Jerry Rothenberg, and we have two other manuscripts under serious consideration. We are looking for poets at least 60 years old who have already published at least one book. Our names are Tam Lin Neville, Henry Braun, and Bert Stern. More information available at www.offthe gridpress.net, or contact us at info@offthegridpress.net. Bert Stern On Aug 15, 2006, at 12:00 PM, AG Jorgensen wrote: > Self-published a really nice, or so was told, chapbook > few years back - received some nice words (blurbs and > support) from noted poets and authors. Worked with > some other creative people on the design, included > some really clever tricks, I'll say. But then, plop - > it didn't go anywhere, because while I had the 'golden > ears' of some, most hadn't even heard a peep of what > might've been coming from my direction. It led me to > almost stop writing, my expectations so completely > naive and me becoming cynical. Well, I've got > something just about completed, or so I think, and am > wondering if the braintrust of this group might be > able to shoot me up with some good advice and all out > suggestions. > > It's like if you didn't hear the tree, then did it > actually fall kinda thing. > > AJ > > --- > "Our best security, our only security, is in the world of ideas, > and I sense a slight foreboding," he said.-- Justice Anthony Kennedy > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 07:48:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: Poetry and Politics In-Reply-To: <20060818082117.22116.qmail@web54608.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I remember someone once saying that writing any poem was a political action. Unfortunately, I don't remember who said this. Most overtly political poems are time-limited and occasionally they turn out to be wrong also via the passage of time. Neruda's poems in praise of Stalin are my favorite example of the latter. As for Mr. Ginsberg, when his poems related to a specific political context, although they were often quite good ( ex. Angkor Wat), as time passes, it may seem that these poems require notes or commentary for readers born since the events commented on transpired. This is an unfortunate limitation of overtly political poetry. Another instance is the poetry written about and or during the Spanish Civil War, much of it quite good. You might have trouble today finding young readers who would know what the Spanish Civil War was all about. This is not to deride the issues involved or the poems but merely to note the effect of the passage of time. AG Jorgensen wrote: There was Ginsburg's style - and Creeley's. Two very different approaches. I mean, and I loved and love Creeley, but some of his work was, well, behind the scenes or anonymous - intensely caring, intimate, but less overtly political. Ginsburg was all hairy ape and naked human - and sometimes ugly, to some, media hog, to some, straight to the throat to others. What is the correct approach, one wonders. Can I get some public or back channel advice. The time is a different one, an urgency in the air, can we agree on this one - so much chaos - and really. Do I act publicly and risk damaging street cred - or do I gain street cred. Do I remember that poetry is about the reaffirmation of those ties that remind of us our connection to humanity - and the devine? One wants to do what is right, to create communitie, understanding that our place, this home, is immediate and only temporary. Silly question, perhaps. AGJ --- "Our best security, our only security, is in the world of ideas, and I sense a slight foreboding," he said.-- Justice Anthony Kennedy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 10:53:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kevin thurston Subject: Re: Poetry and Politics In-Reply-To: <20060818144805.315.qmail@web31103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline but if the aim is political urgency, they shouldn't really last for all times. you may have to pick one or the other. the spanish civil war poets picked the(ir) present. wanting both timelessness & political urgency, you'll achieve neither well. to sit back and argue pros & cons may be so much liberal hand wringing. On 8/18/06, Thomas savage wrote: > > I remember someone once saying that writing any poem was a political > action. Unfortunately, I don't remember who said this. Most overtly > political poems are time-limited and occasionally they turn out to be wrong > also via the passage of time. Neruda's poems in praise of Stalin are my > favorite example of the latter. As for Mr. Ginsberg, when his poems related > to a specific political context, although they were often quite good ( ex. > Angkor Wat), as time passes, it may seem that these poems require notes or > commentary for readers born since the events commented on transpired. This > is an unfortunate limitation of overtly political poetry. Another instance > is the poetry written about and or during the Spanish Civil War, much of it > quite good. You might have trouble today finding young readers who would > know what the Spanish Civil War was all about. This is not to deride the > issues involved or the poems but merely to note the effect of the passage of > time. > > AG Jorgensen wrote: There was Ginsburg's style - > and Creeley's. Two very > different approaches. I mean, and I loved and love > Creeley, but some of his work was, well, behind the > scenes or anonymous - intensely caring, intimate, but > less overtly political. Ginsburg was all hairy ape and > naked human - and sometimes ugly, to some, media hog, > to some, straight to the throat to others. What is the > correct approach, one wonders. Can I get some public > or back channel advice. The time is a different one, > an urgency in the air, can we agree on this one - so > much chaos - and really. Do I act publicly and risk > damaging street cred - or do I gain street cred. Do I > remember that poetry is about the reaffirmation of > those ties that remind of us our connection to > humanity - and the devine? One wants to do what is > right, to create communitie, understanding that our > place, this home, is immediate and only temporary. > Silly question, perhaps. > > AGJ > > --- > "Our best security, our only security, is in the world of ideas, and I > sense a slight foreboding," he said.-- Justice Anthony Kennedy > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > --------------------------------- > How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call > rates. > -- http://fuckinglies.blogspot.com http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/thepixelplus/nhdoublewide.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 08:47:36 -0700 Reply-To: Michael Tod Edgerton Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Tod Edgerton Subject: Re: Poetry and Politics In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Yes, if you want immediate political efficacy PLEASE write a letter to congress or an article for a political magazine or organize a demonstration or campaign for a politician you support. I personally have never been convinced of art's efficacy in any immediate political situation, or its usefulness to politics in the narrowest sense, but have always been convinced of how bad "political" ("activist" may be a better term) art nearly invariably is. I certainly don't think anything escapes the political--fantasmatic, ideological, etc.--in the broadest sense, but working on that level takes a patience that the urgency of most activism cannot afford. For my part, the so-called Language Poets are probably the most effective in this latter area; it's what distinguishes them from the "mainstream," as it is both the source of their thematic and aesthetic difference -- and is the source, of course, of their insistence on undermining/complicating that form/content binary. Before Icame back to poetry and discovered that such a thing as "language poetry" existed, I learned from such poststructuralist theorists as Lacan, Foucault, and Butler that to effect real change, ultimately, you have to work on the structure of language/subjectivity/symbolico-imaginary/"reality". I still very much believe this, if you can predict with any success the actual or even approximate outcome of your efforts, which I think is the real wrench in the works.... Thanks, by the way, to all those who responded to my inquiry into Pessoa translations! Tod Michael Tod Edgerton Poet-in-Residence, Spring 2006 Stonehill College __________________ Peter Kaplan Memorial Fellow, 2004 - 2006 Program in Literary Arts Brown University "There's the mute probability of a reciprocal lack of understanding" - Mei-mei Berssenbrugge ----- Original Message ---- From: kevin thurston To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 10:53:44 AM Subject: Re: Poetry and Politics but if the aim is political urgency, they shouldn't really last for all times. you may have to pick one or the other. the spanish civil war poets picked the(ir) present. wanting both timelessness & political urgency, you'll achieve neither well. to sit back and argue pros & cons may be so much liberal hand wringing. On 8/18/06, Thomas savage wrote: > > I remember someone once saying that writing any poem was a political > action. Unfortunately, I don't remember who said this. Most overtly > political poems are time-limited and occasionally they turn out to be wrong > also via the passage of time. Neruda's poems in praise of Stalin are my > favorite example of the latter. As for Mr. Ginsberg, when his poems related > to a specific political context, although they were often quite good ( ex. > Angkor Wat), as time passes, it may seem that these poems require notes or > commentary for readers born since the events commented on transpired. This > is an unfortunate limitation of overtly political poetry. Another instance > is the poetry written about and or during the Spanish Civil War, much of it > quite good. You might have trouble today finding young readers who would > know what the Spanish Civil War was all about. This is not to deride the > issues involved or the poems but merely to note the effect of the passage of > time. > > AG Jorgensen wrote: There was Ginsburg's style - > and Creeley's. Two very > different approaches. I mean, and I loved and love > Creeley, but some of his work was, well, behind the > scenes or anonymous - intensely caring, intimate, but > less overtly political. Ginsburg was all hairy ape and > naked human - and sometimes ugly, to some, media hog, > to some, straight to the throat to others. What is the > correct approach, one wonders. Can I get some public > or back channel advice. The time is a different one, > an urgency in the air, can we agree on this one - so > much chaos - and really. Do I act publicly and risk > damaging street cred - or do I gain street cred. Do I > remember that poetry is about the reaffirmation of > those ties that remind of us our connection to > humanity - and the devine? One wants to do what is > right, to create communitie, understanding that our > place, this home, is immediate and only temporary. > Silly question, perhaps. > > AGJ > > --- > "Our best security, our only security, is in the world of ideas, and I > sense a slight foreboding," he said.-- Justice Anthony Kennedy > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > --------------------------------- > How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call > rates. > -- http://fuckinglies.blogspot.com http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/thepixelplus/nhdoublewide.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 09:26:17 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: FW: Poetry and Politics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit see Spicer's poetry & politics lecture at the Berkeley poetry conference, 1965 http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3692/is_199801/ai_n8795949 oddly, for one of my nascent reading series, we are trying to get PEN and some other orgs (Move On) to teach such letter writing & it looks like I'm going to have to make something up -- anyone got a canned course in writing a letter to the editor, congressperson, etc.? plus more LA Art Girls Draw a Line and Follow It: http://www.artleak.org/drawaline.html tonight, 7:30 pm LACE Los Angeles ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 12:41:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Poetry and Politics Comments: To: Michael Tod Edgerton In-Reply-To: <20060818154736.45188.qmail@web54207.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Yes, I agree on both counts. BTW, Johnathan Griffin's translations of Pessoa from Carcarnet Press still hold up pretty well--4 small books, each written in one of P's personae. Was it Edwin Honig who did a Pessoa book in the 60s or 70s? On 8/18/06 11:47 AM, "Michael Tod Edgerton" wrote: > Yes, if you want immediate political efficacy PLEASE write a letter to > congress or an article for a political magazine or organize a demonstration or > campaign for a politician you support. I personally have never been convinced > of art's efficacy in any immediate political situation, or its usefulness to > politics in the narrowest sense, but have always been convinced of how bad > "political" ("activist" may be a better term) art nearly invariably is. > > I certainly don't think anything escapes the political--fantasmatic, > ideological, etc.--in the broadest sense, but working on that level takes a > patience that the urgency of most activism cannot afford. For my part, the > so-called Language Poets are probably the most effective in this latter area; > it's what distinguishes them from the "mainstream," as it is both the source > of their thematic and aesthetic difference -- and is the source, of course, of > their insistence on undermining/complicating that form/content binary. Before > Icame back to poetry and discovered that such a thing as "language poetry" > existed, I learned from such poststructuralist theorists as Lacan, Foucault, > and Butler that to effect real change, ultimately, you have to work on the > structure of language/subjectivity/symbolico-imaginary/"reality". I still very > much believe this, if you can predict with any success the actual or even > approximate outcome of your efforts, which I think is the real wrench in the > works.... > > Thanks, by the way, to all those who responded to my inquiry into Pessoa > translations! > > Tod > > Michael Tod Edgerton > Poet-in-Residence, Spring 2006 > Stonehill College > __________________ > > Peter Kaplan Memorial Fellow, 2004 - 2006 > Program in Literary Arts > Brown University > > "There's the mute probability of a reciprocal lack of understanding" > - Mei-mei Berssenbrugge > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: kevin thurston > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 10:53:44 AM > Subject: Re: Poetry and Politics > > but if the aim is political urgency, they shouldn't really last for all > times. you may have to pick one or the other. the spanish civil war poets > picked the(ir) present. wanting both timelessness & political urgency, > you'll achieve neither well. to sit back and argue pros & cons may be so > much liberal hand wringing. > > On 8/18/06, Thomas savage wrote: >> >> I remember someone once saying that writing any poem was a political >> action. Unfortunately, I don't remember who said this. Most overtly >> political poems are time-limited and occasionally they turn out to be wrong >> also via the passage of time. Neruda's poems in praise of Stalin are my >> favorite example of the latter. As for Mr. Ginsberg, when his poems related >> to a specific political context, although they were often quite good ( ex. >> Angkor Wat), as time passes, it may seem that these poems require notes or >> commentary for readers born since the events commented on transpired. This >> is an unfortunate limitation of overtly political poetry. Another instance >> is the poetry written about and or during the Spanish Civil War, much of it >> quite good. You might have trouble today finding young readers who would >> know what the Spanish Civil War was all about. This is not to deride the >> issues involved or the poems but merely to note the effect of the passage of >> time. >> >> AG Jorgensen wrote: There was Ginsburg's style - >> and Creeley's. Two very >> different approaches. I mean, and I loved and love >> Creeley, but some of his work was, well, behind the >> scenes or anonymous - intensely caring, intimate, but >> less overtly political. Ginsburg was all hairy ape and >> naked human - and sometimes ugly, to some, media hog, >> to some, straight to the throat to others. What is the >> correct approach, one wonders. Can I get some public >> or back channel advice. The time is a different one, >> an urgency in the air, can we agree on this one - so >> much chaos - and really. Do I act publicly and risk >> damaging street cred - or do I gain street cred. Do I >> remember that poetry is about the reaffirmation of >> those ties that remind of us our connection to >> humanity - and the devine? One wants to do what is >> right, to create communitie, understanding that our >> place, this home, is immediate and only temporary. >> Silly question, perhaps. >> >> AGJ >> >> --- >> "Our best security, our only security, is in the world of ideas, and I >> sense a slight foreboding," he said.-- Justice Anthony Kennedy >> >> __________________________________________________ >> Do You Yahoo!? >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >> http://mail.yahoo.com >> >> >> >> --------------------------------- >> How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call >> rates. >> > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 11:36:22 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Hugh Tribbey Subject: CFP: Experimental Writing and Aesthetics Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Please Post and Announce Call for Papers: Experimental Writing and Aesthetics Abstract/Proposals by 1 December 2006 Southwest/Texas Popular & American Culture Associations 27th Annual Conference Albuquerque, NM, February 14-17, 2007 Hyatt Regency Albuquerque 330 Tijeras Albuquerque, NM 87102 Phone: 1.505.842.1234 Fax: 1.505.766.6710 Panels now forming on topics related to Experimental Writing and Aesthetics in such areas as the aesthetics of experimental writing in any genre or in multi-genre/multi-media works including digital and graphic compositions involving language, the poetics of performance of experimental compositions, critical studies of experimental writers, etc. Creative writers interested in the selective creative writing readings panel should contact Jerry Bradley, Creative Writing Readings Chair, via in the early fall. Scholars, teachers, professionals, writers not affiliated with academic institutions, and others interested in experimental writing are encouraged to participate. Graduate students are also particularly welcome with award opportunities for best graduate papers. If you wish to organize your own panel, I will be happy to facilitate your scheduling needs. Send abstracts, papers, or proposals for panels with your email address by 1 December 2006: Hugh Tribbey, Experimental Writing and Aesthetics Chair Email: htribbey@ecok.edu (Note the change in e-mail address from last year.) Mailing Address: Dr. Hugh Tribbey Department of English and Languages East Central University 1100 E. 14th St. Ada, OK 74820 Phone: 580-310-5524; Fax: 580-436-3329 Conference Website: (updated regularly) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 13:08:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adam Morey Subject: Re: STOP deportation for Elvira Arellano In-Reply-To: <20060818015718.49819.qmail@web31003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I don't understand, why is she living in the front of a church? How is she like Rosa Parks? Is she an illegal immigrant? > I am not a criminal. > I am not a terrorist. > I am a mother and a worker. > > -- from a statement by Elvira Arellano, > immigrant rights activist > > ************************************* > > Three blocks from my apartment, Elvira and her son > Saul have taken refuge in a small store-front church. > Elvira is actively disobeying an order by the > Department of Homeland Security to turn herself in for > deportation. One of my 8th grade poetry students > tells me, "She is our Rosa Parks." Everyday, we both > visit Elvira at the church. > > CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE: > Refusal to obey governmental demands or commands > especially as a nonviolent and usually collective > means of forcing concessions from the government > > Elvira is a well-known Chicago leader of undocumented > workers. President of La Familia Latina Unida, she > recently lead a Mother's Day hunger strike demanding > that President Bush call a moratorium on "raids, > deportations and separations of families" until the > Senate and the Congress come to a resolution of this > nation's broken immigration laws. > > In past years, I have invited Elvira to be my guest > speaker at Truman College and at community-art events > I organize with Anti Gravity Surprise. She has openly > shared her story with all who want to listen: the > dangers of crossing the border, the difficulties of > being a single mom, the raids after 9/11, the false > promises from politicians. But, Elvira Arellano is > the real promise. The promise of a movement to > organize workers for equality and justice. > > *****WAYS TO HELP***** > > *Call Senators Obama and Durbin. > Ask them to pass private bill HR 1628. > Senator Obama > -- Chicago office 312-886-3506 > -- Washington office 202-224-2854 > Senator Durbin > -- Chicago office 312-353-4952 > -- Washington office 202-224-2152 > > *Donations of water, food, money, and your time can be > brought to Adalberto United Methodist Church, 2176 W. > Division Street. > > *Send other ideas to Roberto Lopez. > rlopez@somosunpueblo.com > > Onwards, > Jennifer Karmin > > http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/custom/photos/chi-060814deport,1,3848429.story?coll=chi-homepagenews-utl > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 12:19:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: STOP deportation for Elvira Arellano In-Reply-To: <62776.24.195.50.214.1155920910.squirrel@webmail.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, and she's also the mother of an American citizen. Hal "A poet is someone from whom nothing must be taken and to whom nothing must be given." --Anna Akhmatova Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@gmail.com halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Aug 18, 2006, at 12:08 PM, Adam Morey wrote: > I don't understand, why is she living in the front of a church? How > is she > like Rosa Parks? Is she an illegal immigrant? > > >> I am not a criminal. >> I am not a terrorist. >> I am a mother and a worker. >> >> -- from a statement by Elvira Arellano, >> immigrant rights activist >> >> ************************************* >> >> Three blocks from my apartment, Elvira and her son >> Saul have taken refuge in a small store-front church. >> Elvira is actively disobeying an order by the >> Department of Homeland Security to turn herself in for >> deportation. One of my 8th grade poetry students >> tells me, "She is our Rosa Parks." Everyday, we both >> visit Elvira at the church. >> >> CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE: >> Refusal to obey governmental demands or commands >> especially as a nonviolent and usually collective >> means of forcing concessions from the government >> >> Elvira is a well-known Chicago leader of undocumented >> workers. President of La Familia Latina Unida, she >> recently lead a Mother's Day hunger strike demanding >> that President Bush call a moratorium on "raids, >> deportations and separations of families" until the >> Senate and the Congress come to a resolution of this >> nation's broken immigration laws. >> >> In past years, I have invited Elvira to be my guest >> speaker at Truman College and at community-art events >> I organize with Anti Gravity Surprise. She has openly >> shared her story with all who want to listen: the >> dangers of crossing the border, the difficulties of >> being a single mom, the raids after 9/11, the false >> promises from politicians. But, Elvira Arellano is >> the real promise. The promise of a movement to >> organize workers for equality and justice. >> >> *****WAYS TO HELP***** >> >> *Call Senators Obama and Durbin. >> Ask them to pass private bill HR 1628. >> Senator Obama >> -- Chicago office 312-886-3506 >> -- Washington office 202-224-2854 >> Senator Durbin >> -- Chicago office 312-353-4952 >> -- Washington office 202-224-2152 >> >> *Donations of water, food, money, and your time can be >> brought to Adalberto United Methodist Church, 2176 W. >> Division Street. >> >> *Send other ideas to Roberto Lopez. >> rlopez@somosunpueblo.com >> >> Onwards, >> Jennifer Karmin >> >> http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/custom/photos/chi-060814deport, >> 1,3848429.story?coll=chi-homepagenews-utl >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> __________________________________________________ >> Do You Yahoo!? >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >> http://mail.yahoo.com >> ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 10:20:17 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alexander Dickow Subject: boog city and dave In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Round of applause for Dave of Boog City's small press fair in NYC last night. Great stuff, Dave, thanks for putting it together. Alex "Ce dont le poete souffre le plus dans ses rapports avec le monde, c'est du manque de justice _interne_. La vitre-cloaque de Caliban derriere laquelle les yeux tout-puissants et sensibles d'Ariel s'irritent." Rene Char, _Partage Formel_, fragment II ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 11:01:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: UK Poets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Hi all, I've been reading "Children of Albion" the last couple of days, and it has come to my attention as i'm tracking down the names of some of the poets I like in here that my knowledge of current poetry from the UK is woefully lacking. I'm particularly enjoying Gael Turnbull and Adrian Mitchell who I discovered here. Can anyone recommend any other poets from Great Britain, particular Scots or Welsh poets? or good anthologies that are more recent? I understand that there were some important poets left out of Children of Albion that a lot of people thought should have been in it, at least, so says wikipedia. Any recs for any of those? thanks for all answers, Jason ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 08:12:37 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabrielle Welford Subject: eggcorns MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT this looks rather lovely/intriguing or whatnot. gabe ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 09:37:15 -0400 From: Shelley Reid "Eggcorns" is the linguists' name for the blooper language that still has some sense to it -- the name's taken from a twisted version of "acorns." You've probably seen some if you read students' writing.... http://eggcorns.lascribe.net/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 18:34:37 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Raymond Bianchi Subject: Re: Deport this Woman Comments: cc: Adam Morey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This woman entered the USA illegally after she was deported and this is why she is being sought. I am frankly tired of this kind of thing. When I married my wife who is a Brazilian we had to live apart for 10 months in order for her to enter the US legally we could not see each other and she had to stay in Brazil. Why should this woman get special treatment but those of us who follow the law have to sacrifice? I am not anti-immigrant my wife, mother, father are all immigrants but legal ones if you want open borders then pass a law to open the borders until then these are the laws we have in the US. -------------- Original message -------------- From: Adam Morey > I don't understand, why is she living in the front of a church? How is she > like Rosa Parks? Is she an illegal immigrant? > > > > I am not a criminal. > > I am not a terrorist. > > I am a mother and a worker. > > > > -- from a statement by Elvira Arellano, > > immigrant rights activist > > > > ************************************* > > > > Three blocks from my apartment, Elvira and her son > > Saul have taken refuge in a small store-front church. > > Elvira is actively disobeying an order by the > > Department of Homeland Security to turn herself in for > > deportation. One of my 8th grade poetry students > > tells me, "She is our Rosa Parks." Everyday, we both > > visit Elvira at the church. > > > > CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE: > > Refusal to obey governmental demands or commands > > especially as a nonviolent and usually collective > > means of forcing concessions from the government > > > > Elvira is a well-known Chicago leader of undocumented > > workers. President of La Familia Latina Unida, she > > recently lead a Mother's Day hunger strike demanding > > that President Bush call a moratorium on "raids, > > deportations and separations of families" until the > > Senate and the Congress come to a resolution of this > > nation's broken immigration laws. > > > > In past years, I have invited Elvira to be my guest > > speaker at Truman College and at community-art events > > I organize with Anti Gravity Surprise. She has openly > > shared her story with all who want to listen: the > > dangers of crossing the border, the difficulties of > > being a single mom, the raids after 9/11, the false > > promises from politicians. But, Elvira Arellano is > > the real promise. The promise of a movement to > > organize workers for equality and justice. > > > > *****WAYS TO HELP***** > > > > *Call Senators Obama and Durbin. > > Ask them to pass private bill HR 1628. > > Senator Obama > > -- Chicago office 312-886-3506 > > -- Washington office 202-224-2854 > > Senator Durbin > > -- Chicago office 312-353-4952 > > -- Washington office 202-224-2152 > > > > *Donations of water, food, money, and your time can be > > brought to Adalberto United Methodist Church, 2176 W. > > Division Street. > > > > *Send other ideas to Roberto Lopez. > > rlopez@somosunpueblo.com > > > > Onwards, > > Jennifer Karmin > > > > > http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/custom/photos/chi-060814deport,1,3848429.stor > y?coll=chi-homepagenews-utl > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 18:39:22 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Raymond Bianchi Subject: Re: here is the story on Arellano Comments: cc: Adam Morey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Illegal Immigrant Seeks Church Sanctuary To Avoid Deportation Woman, 7-Year-Old Son Plan To Stay In West Side Church POSTED: 1:28 pm CDT August 15, 2006 UPDATED: 1:59 pm CDT August 15, 2006 Email This Story | Print This Story Sign Up for Breaking News Alerts CHICAGO -- An activist for illegal immigrants refused to show up for deportation Tuesday and instead claimed sanctuary in a Chicago church. Elvira Arellano, 31, had been ordered to show up at Homeland Security's office in the Loop, according to a report in the Chicago Tribune. Arellano, who has been in the United States for nine years, took her young son to the St. Adalbert United Methodist Church at 2716 West Division. She is the president of a group that lobbies for the rights of families who face deportation. Her 7-year-old son is a U.S. citizen, according to the report. U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement officials said Arellano will be considered a fugitive if she refuses to surrender. Arellano said she is prepared to stay inside the church until ICE agents arrest her. Officials pointed out that Arellano has been deported once already and has also been convicted of using a fake Social Security number. She was arrested in 2002 in a post Sept. 11 illegal immigrant roundup at O'Hare. Arellano has in the past received several stays of deportation, thanks in part to the help of local U.S. congressmen, and has been a vocal advocate for illegal immigrants. -------------- Original message -------------- From: Adam Morey > I don't understand, why is she living in the front of a church? How is she > like Rosa Parks? Is she an illegal immigrant? > > > > I am not a criminal. > > I am not a terrorist. > > I am a mother and a worker. > > > > -- from a statement by Elvira Arellano, > > immigrant rights activist > > > > ************************************* > > > > Three blocks from my apartment, Elvira and her son > > Saul have taken refuge in a small store-front church. > > Elvira is actively disobeying an order by the > > Department of Homeland Security to turn herself in for > > deportation. One of my 8th grade poetry students > > tells me, "She is our Rosa Parks." Everyday, we both > > visit Elvira at the church. > > > > CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE: > > Refusal to obey governmental demands or commands > > especially as a nonviolent and usually collective > > means of forcing concessions from the government > > > > Elvira is a well-known Chicago leader of undocumented > > workers. President of La Familia Latina Unida, she > > recently lead a Mother's Day hunger strike demanding > > that President Bush call a moratorium on "raids, > > deportations and separations of families" until the > > Senate and the Congress come to a resolution of this > > nation's broken immigration laws. > > > > In past years, I have invited Elvira to be my guest > > speaker at Truman College and at community-art events > > I organize with Anti Gravity Surprise. She has openly > > shared her story with all who want to listen: the > > dangers of crossing the border, the difficulties of > > being a single mom, the raids after 9/11, the false > > promises from politicians. But, Elvira Arellano is > > the real promise. The promise of a movement to > > organize workers for equality and justice. > > > > *****WAYS TO HELP***** > > > > *Call Senators Obama and Durbin. > > Ask them to pass private bill HR 1628. > > Senator Obama > > -- Chicago office 312-886-3506 > > -- Washington office 202-224-2854 > > Senator Durbin > > -- Chicago office 312-353-4952 > > -- Washington office 202-224-2152 > > > > *Donations of water, food, money, and your time can be > > brought to Adalberto United Methodist Church, 2176 W. > > Division Street. > > > > *Send other ideas to Roberto Lopez. > > rlopez@somosunpueblo.com > > > > Onwards, > > Jennifer Karmin > > > > > http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/custom/photos/chi-060814deport,1,3848429.stor > y?coll=chi-homepagenews-utl > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 12:03:09 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: richard owens Subject: Re: UK Poets In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit check out Oxford Anth of 20th c British & Irish Po, ed. Keith Tuma. & publishers of contemporary Brit verse: Salt Publishing fantastic (see Sean Bonney), Bloodaxe publishes Adrian Mitchell's rants, & Shearsman recently put out a Gael Turnbull selected. Peter Finch's Welsh Poems (also Shearsman) wonderful. & Alan Halsey... his Margenalien (2005), excessively large collection of his work from '80s to 2005. good times. Jason Quackenbush wrote: Hi all, I've been reading "Children of Albion" the last couple of days, and it has come to my attention as i'm tracking down the names of some of the poets I like in here that my knowledge of current poetry from the UK is woefully lacking. I'm particularly enjoying Gael Turnbull and Adrian Mitchell who I discovered here. Can anyone recommend any other poets from Great Britain, particular Scots or Welsh poets? or good anthologies that are more recent? I understand that there were some important poets left out of Children of Albion that a lot of people thought should have been in it, at least, so says wikipedia. Any recs for any of those? thanks for all answers, Jason --------------------------------- Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 15:05:31 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kevin thurston Subject: Re: UK Poets In-Reply-To: <20060818190309.75258.qmail@web33604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline i back channeled, but will now come forward i too second sean bonney's blade pitch control unit from salt On 8/18/06, richard owens wrote: > > check out Oxford Anth of 20th c British & Irish Po, ed. Keith Tuma. > > & publishers of contemporary Brit verse: Salt Publishing fantastic (see > Sean Bonney), Bloodaxe publishes Adrian Mitchell's rants, & Shearsman > recently put out a Gael Turnbull selected. Peter Finch's Welsh Poems (also > Shearsman) wonderful. > > & Alan Halsey... his Margenalien (2005), excessively large collection of > his work from '80s to 2005. good times. > > > Jason Quackenbush wrote: Hi all, > I've been reading "Children of Albion" the last couple of days, and it has > come to my attention as i'm tracking down the names of some of the poets I > like in here that my knowledge of current poetry from the UK > is woefully lacking. I'm particularly enjoying Gael Turnbull and Adrian > Mitchell who I discovered here. Can anyone recommend any other poets from > Great Britain, particular Scots or Welsh poets? or good anthologies that are > more recent? I understand that there were some important poets left out of > Children of Albion that a lot of people thought should have been in it, at > least, so says wikipedia. Any recs for any of those? > > thanks for all answers, > Jason > > > > --------------------------------- > Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com > -- http://fuckinglies.blogspot.com http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/thepixelplus/nhdoublewide.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 12:20:03 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adam Fieled Subject: Re: UK Poets In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Check out: Todd Swift, Chris McCabe, Andrew Duncan, John Siddique, Peter Finch, James Garry, AnnMarie Eldon, Peter Philpott, Jeffrey Side. You can find them all on PFS Post (http://www.artrecess.blogspot.com). Or Nth Position (http://www.nthposition.com) Or Great Works (http://www.greatworks.org.uk) Or the Argotist (http://www.argotistonline.co.uk) many in Cordite (http://www.cordite.org.au) UK, man-- it's "brill". Ad Jason Quackenbush wrote: Hi all, I've been reading "Children of Albion" the last couple of days, and it has come to my attention as i'm tracking down the names of some of the poets I like in here that my knowledge of current poetry from the UK is woefully lacking. I'm particularly enjoying Gael Turnbull and Adrian Mitchell who I discovered here. Can anyone recommend any other poets from Great Britain, particular Scots or Welsh poets? or good anthologies that are more recent? I understand that there were some important poets left out of Children of Albion that a lot of people thought should have been in it, at least, so says wikipedia. Any recs for any of those? thanks for all answers, Jason --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 21:26:49 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: UK Poets In-Reply-To: <20060818192003.32680.qmail@web54513.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Many British poets are featured on the Poets' Corner, you should need more or specific info, just b/c: http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche On 8/18/06, Adam Fieled wrote: > > Check out: > > Todd Swift, Chris McCabe, Andrew Duncan, John Siddique, Peter Finch, > James Garry, AnnMarie Eldon, Peter Philpott, Jeffrey Side. > > You can find them all on PFS Post (http://www.artrecess.blogspot.com). > Or Nth Position (http://www.nthposition.com) > Or Great Works (http://www.greatworks.org.uk) > Or the Argotist (http://www.argotistonline.co.uk) > many in Cordite (http://www.cordite.org.au) > UK, man-- it's "brill". > > Ad > > Jason Quackenbush wrote: > Hi all, > I've been reading "Children of Albion" the last couple of days, and it has > come to my attention as i'm tracking down the names of some of the poets I > like in here that my knowledge of current poetry from the UK > is woefully lacking. I'm particularly enjoying Gael Turnbull and Adrian > Mitchell who I discovered here. Can anyone recommend any other poets from > Great Britain, particular Scots or Welsh poets? or good anthologies that are > more recent? I understand that there were some important poets left out of > Children of Albion that a lot of people thought should have been in it, at > least, so says wikipedia. Any recs for any of those? > > thanks for all answers, > Jason > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 12:30:00 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: goldencrimsonbrown Comments: To: lewis@lewislacook.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit goldencrimsonbrown Webster's defines "This brilliantly planned and orchestrated crime" as: Mike and I talk Art in unsophisticated terms, which means we really talk art. I'm rolling my own cigarettes, and it snows shreds of goldencrimson brown flakes that expand when you breathe them in. Such is my desire to fill me with whatever air can offer. Leslie calls looking but I can't do much, clean my glasses with Windex thinking that maybe it's just my eyes, the soft edges of objects defining themselves but weakly, in kiwi Frankenstein. Mary reads Donald Barthelme's The Dead Father--I wonder what she thinks of such a scattered, fragile thing? Were those nightmares when I was a kid really about the dumpster behind Lakeview Elementary? I went walking down there the other night, stoned, listening on headphones to a music made without instruments, and the house my father died in creeped me out so much I hurried. Two mannish silhouettes will follow you. Why do I never share with anyone whatever seems sacred to me? You're tailed by two poolish eyes, glinting off the second-story window of the house my father died in. You're just right, Mary, because you too are restless inside, like really restless, and we share an gorgeous instability, raucous and ravening. Shaun Ryder raves on. You dreamed when you were a kid that you were a butterfly's man, and you moved volute wings via sexed pulleys via tracks. Mine. Mine mine mine. *************************************************************************** ||http://www.lewislacook.org|| New Media Poetry and Poetics ||http://www.abstractoutlooks.com || Abstract Outlooks Media - A New Vision for A New Web Hosting, Design, Development ||http://xanaxpop.lewislacook.org|| Xanax Pop - A Bloge of Poemes --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 15:42:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Clements Subject: Re: UK Poets In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Alan Halsey Geraldine Monk Andrew Shelley Cecil Helman Norman Jope Rod Mengham Rupert Loydell Gavin Selerie Brian Catling David Miller Patricia Debney Vahni Capildeo Andy Brown All of whom, among others, appear in the "The Prose Poem in Great Britain" feature in Sentence 3. Also, Luke Kennard Jason Quackenbush Sent by: UB Poetics discussion group 08/18/2006 02:01 PM Please respond to UB Poetics discussion group To POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU cc Subject UK Poets Hi all, I've been reading "Children of Albion" the last couple of days, and it has come to my attention as i'm tracking down the names of some of the poets I like in here that my knowledge of current poetry from the UK is woefully lacking. I'm particularly enjoying Gael Turnbull and Adrian Mitchell who I discovered here. Can anyone recommend any other poets from Great Britain, particular Scots or Welsh poets? or good anthologies that are more recent? I understand that there were some important poets left out of Children of Albion that a lot of people thought should have been in it, at least, so says wikipedia. Any recs for any of those? thanks for all answers, Jason ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 14:12:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jordan Stempleman Subject: Re: UK Poets Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Tom Raworth, Bill Griffiths, Trevor Joyce, Maggie O'Sullivan, Elizabeth James, Geraldine Monk, Mairéad Byrne, Tom Leonard, Billy Mills... From: Adam Fieled Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: UK Poets Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 12:20:03 -0700 > Check out: > > Todd Swift, Chris McCabe, Andrew Duncan, John Siddique, Peter Finch, >James Garry, AnnMarie Eldon, Peter Philpott, Jeffrey Side. > > You can find them all on PFS Post >(http://www.artrecess.blogspot.com). > Or Nth Position (http://www.nthposition.com) > Or Great Works (http://www.greatworks.org.uk) > Or the Argotist (http://www.argotistonline.co.uk) > many in Cordite (http://www.cordite.org.au) > UK, man-- it's "brill". > > Ad > >Jason Quackenbush wrote: > Hi all, >I've been reading "Children of Albion" the last couple of days, and it has >come to my attention as i'm tracking down the names of some of the poets I >like in here that my knowledge of current poetry from the UK >is woefully lacking. I'm particularly enjoying Gael Turnbull and Adrian >Mitchell who I discovered here. Can anyone recommend any other poets from >Great Britain, particular Scots or Welsh poets? or good anthologies that >are more recent? I understand that there were some important poets left out >of Children of Albion that a lot of people thought should have been in it, >at least, so says wikipedia. Any recs for any of those? > >thanks for all answers, >Jason > > > >--------------------------------- >Do you Yahoo!? > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 17:30:14 -0400 Reply-To: az421@freenet.carleton.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: new from above/ground press Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT two new chapbooks from above/ground press celebrating thirteen years of destroying trees for literature Pronounced or Baby Pictures of the Country Stars by Phil Hall, $4 catch a bird a chapbook of visual poems by Jesse Ferguson, $4 Phil Hall lives in Toronto & Perth, Ontario. He has been publishing poems since 1973. His book Trouble Sleeping (2001) was nominated for the Governor General's Award. His most recent book An Oak Hunch was a finalist for the Griffin Poetry Prize. This spring he was in writer's residence at The Berton House in Dawson City, Yukon. Jesse Ferguson is a poet, musician and ballad collector from Cornwall, Ontario. He sings and plays the guitar, mandolin, violin, pennywhistle, bodhran, fife, djembe, harmonica and bagpipes (the chanter at least). His three other poetry chapbooks, Old Rhythms (Pooka Press, 2005), Commute Poems (Thistle Bloom Books, 2006) and Near Cooper Marsh (Friday Circle, 2006) are available directly from him (fergusonjesse@hotmail.com), or from the publishers. In fall of 2006, he will be moving to Fredericton, New Brunswick to continue his graduate studies. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ add $1 per order for postage; outside Canada, pay in US funds; make cheques payable to rob mclennan, c/o 858 Somerset Street West, main floor, Ottawa Ontario Canada K1R 6R7 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 2007 above/ground press subscriptions now available -- $40 per calendar year for chapbooks, asides + broadsheets (while supplies last; outside Canada, $40 US). current & forthcoming publications by Phil Hall, Margaret Christakos, rob mclennan, Andy Weaver, Jesse Ferguson, Nicholas Lea, Lea Graham, Max Middle, Jessica Smith, John Newlove, Stephanie Bolster, Stan Rogal, Gil McElroy, Jennifer Mulligan, Sharon Harris, Jan Allen, bpNichol, ryan fitzpatrick, Julia Williams, Shauna McCabe, Jordan Scott, George Bowering, Barry McKinnon, Cath Morris, Karen Clavelle, Wanda O'Connor, Fred Wah, Anita Dolman, Stephen Brockwell, Mari-Lou Rowley, Monty Reid, Rachel Zolf, Gwendolyn Guth, Natalie Simpson, derek beaulieu, Rob Budde, etcetera. For irregular notices of new publications, check out www.robmclennan.blogspot.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- -- poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics (Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...11th coll'n - name , an errant (Stride, UK) .... c/o 858 Somerset St W, Ottawa ON K1R 6R7 * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 14:49:36 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cynie Cory Subject: Re: poetry motel In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit That's familiar. cynie cory susan maurer wrote: did poetry motel go under? they took a poem 2 yrs ago and have not reponded to 2 letters sent to hawaii address about its fate , unable to turn up email adress. susan maurer _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 16:58:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: UK Poets & Scottish ones, too-- In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed my favorite UK poet is Bob Cobbing--in verbi-visi-voci poetries across the board also j.h. prynne and no one seems to have mentioned barry macsweeney tom pickard john furnival dom sylvester houedard for Scottish poetry there's the excellent series of volumes many with small cds included from Pocket Books Thomas A. Clark another great favorite of mine >From: Jordan Stempleman >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: UK Poets >Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 14:12:21 -0700 > >Tom Raworth, Bill Griffiths, Trevor Joyce, Maggie O'Sullivan, Elizabeth >James, Geraldine Monk, Mairéad Byrne, Tom Leonard, Billy Mills... > > > > > >From: Adam Fieled >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: UK Poets >Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 12:20:03 -0700 >> Check out: >> >> Todd Swift, Chris McCabe, Andrew Duncan, John Siddique, Peter >>Finch, James Garry, AnnMarie Eldon, Peter Philpott, Jeffrey Side. >> >> You can find them all on PFS Post >>(http://www.artrecess.blogspot.com). >> Or Nth Position (http://www.nthposition.com) >> Or Great Works (http://www.greatworks.org.uk) >> Or the Argotist (http://www.argotistonline.co.uk) >> many in Cordite (http://www.cordite.org.au) >> UK, man-- it's "brill". >> >> Ad >> >>Jason Quackenbush wrote: >> Hi all, >>I've been reading "Children of Albion" the last couple of days, and it has >>come to my attention as i'm tracking down the names of some of the poets I >>like in here that my knowledge of current poetry from the UK >>is woefully lacking. I'm particularly enjoying Gael Turnbull and Adrian >>Mitchell who I discovered here. Can anyone recommend any other poets from >>Great Britain, particular Scots or Welsh poets? or good anthologies that >>are more recent? I understand that there were some important poets left >>out of Children of Albion that a lot of people thought should have been in >>it, at least, so says wikipedia. Any recs for any of those? >> >>thanks for all answers, >>Jason >> >> >> >>--------------------------------- >>Do you Yahoo!? >> Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. > >_________________________________________________________________ >Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® >Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 00:53:23 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Subject: Re: UK Poets & Scottish ones, too-- MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: UK Poets & Scottish ones, too-- > my favorite UK poet is ... Given where Jason Quackenbush is starting from (Horovitz' +Children of Albion+ in 1969), I'm not sure that an unadorned list of names is going to be a terrible lot of use. (Given the names coming up, and the overlap between them, more useful might be the articles by Andrew Duncan [one of the names mantioned] published and archived by Tim Allen's Terrible Works -- http://www.terriblework.co.uk/author%20index.htm There are both more names and more context there.) But ... There's nothing wrong with The Usual Suspects (and I'd add dave bircumshaw to the list, partly because I publish him) but this is very much one particular slice across contemporary poetry, sounding like the british-poets list at its most voluble. More specifically, Jason asked inter alia about Scottish Poetry in the context of an anthology published in 1969. So what was happening there in 1969? By virtue of survival as well as talent, the finest living Scottish poet is EDWIN MORGAN. (+Selected Poems+ [Carcanet Press]) -- included, I note from the Wikipedia article on it, in +Children of Albion+. My own copy of that has gone walkabout at the moment so I can't check exactly what was published by whom, but of the ones listed in Wikipedia , Libby Houston {English} and Ian Hamilton Finlay, as well as Edwin Morgan, have progressed beyond 1969. It's hardly fair to berate Horovitz for not including Veronica Forrest-Thomson, as hardly anyone had heard of her at that point. Apart from anything else, she was only twenty-two years old in 1969. Her +Collected Poems+ weren't published till 1990, fifteen years after her death, and I think one of the few pamphlets she published before she died was +Cordelia+ (published by Omens at a cost of 25p in 1974, and only 24 pages long). She also, though this is pretty trivial all things considered, provides a link between Edwin Morgan (who knew her in Glasgow) and J.H.Prynne whom she met at Cambridge. In 1969, Morgan wasn't particularly well known. He'd published his first substantial collection, +The Second Life+, the year before, but not to much notice -- the Big Guns of his generation at that point in Scotland were considered to be Norman McCaig, George Mackay Brown and Iain Crichton Smith -- and it wasn't followed up till Carcanet took him on and he Became Famous. (There's a bit in the middle, and obviously more, but that's a crude summary.) 1969 was also about two or three years after the Glasgow Language Wars broke out, sparked-off by the publication by TOM LEONARD (mentioned by another poster) of "Six Glasgow Poems". Or rather, the sequence of publications and republications ... Partly why this is in my mind is that earlier tonight, before I read the set of naked lists offered by various posters, I'd been leafing through some stuff on my shelves with a couple of friends who were visiting me, and noticed the first complete publication of "Six Glasgow Poems" (a cyclostyled insert in a magazine called +Epos+), the reprint by Tom McGrath [himself one of the contributors to +Children of Albion+], and their appearance in Tom's first major selected -- +Intimate Voices+ (Galloping Dog Press, 1984, reprinted), still the best place to start with Tom Leonard's poems. Or there's the post by Robin Purves to this list only a day or two ago announcing the availability of "Being a Human Being and other poems by Tom Leonard." There were [obviously] other things happening in Scotland in and around 1969 (I haven't even mentioned D.M.BLACK) but rather than listing indiscriminately, there are three recent volumes that seem to me to curiously echo it. Lydia Robb, +Last Tango with Magritte+ (Chapman, 2001) Kathleen Jamie, +Mr and Mrs Scotland Are Dead+ (Bloodaxe Books, 2002) Alison Flett, +Whit Lassyz Ur Inty+ (Thirsty Books, 2004) It aw hings thegither. +Chapman+ magazine, edited by Joy Hendry, is probably the best place to see something of what's happening with Scottish poetry today. Robin Hamilton ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 22:44:35 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Larissa Shmailo Subject: translations of Mahadevi Akka MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I'm seeking recommendations for best translation(s) of and biblographic citations about Dravidian poet Mahadevi Akka (yogic Bhakti tradition). Can anyone help? Thanks, Larissa Larissa Shmailo larissashmailo.blogspot.com Listen to THE NO-NET WORLD on _http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/shmailo_ (http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/shmailo) and on iTUNES ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 21:40:58 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alexander Dickow Subject: don't deport this woman, in re raymond bianchi In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Raymond, this woman may not have been able to *afford*, as you apparently were (eventually, at least), the EXORBITANT costs of immigration procedures -- and that's without the legal counsel, which has become almost necessary to avoid serious complications in many instances (this formulation amounts to euphemism). I speak from experience: my wife is French. I feel immensely grateful for the privilege I have (it's terribly sad to say, but it may have far too much to do with being a white man married to a Western European woman: I could tell you horrifying stories...). In short, and with all due respect, I find your opinion somewhat indelicately expressed. Do you presume to know this woman's story? I grant you, a degree of skepticism may be in order: these kinds of tales get spun one way (100% martyr, victim of evil injustice) as often, perhaps, as they get spun in the other (100% martyr-free, good-for-nothing illegal immigrant lawbreaker). In addition, you write this: "Why should this woman get special treatment but those of us who follow the law have to sacrifice?" This sounds a bit too much like a translation for "I had to suffer, so everyone else should too." Two wrongs apparently make a right? Or am I misunderstanding you? Permit me, then, to err on the side of charity, and express my personal solidarity with this woman: DOWN WITH THE US IMMIGRATION MACHINE. It is an engine for all kinds of injustices, especially now: it was built for those injustices from the beginning. Alex Raymond Bianchi wrote: "This woman entered the USA illegally after she was deported and this is why she is being sought. I am frankly tired of this kind of thing. When I married my wife who is a Brazilian we had to live apart for 10 months in order for her to enter the US legally we could not see each other and she had to stay in Brazil. Why should this woman get special treatment but those of us who follow the law have to sacrifice? I am not anti-immigrant my wife, mother, father are all immigrants but legal ones if you want open borders then pass a law to open the borders until then these are the laws we have in the US." "Ce dont le poete souffre le plus dans ses rapports avec le monde, c'est du manque de justice _interne_. La vitre-cloaque de Caliban derriere laquelle les yeux tout-puissants et sensibles d'Ariel s'irritent." Rene Char, _Partage Formel_, fragment II ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 12:17:56 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Re: UK Poets In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Aug 18, 2006, at 11:12 PM, Jordan Stempleman wrote: > Tom Raworth, Bill Griffiths, Trevor Joyce, Maggie O'Sullivan, =20 > Elizabeth James, Geraldine Monk, Mair=E9ad Byrne, Tom Leonard, Billy =20= > Mills... & do not forget Allen Fisher, Douglas Oliver, Ulli Freer, Iain Sinclair, Asa Benveniste, Paul Brown, Veronica Forrest-Thomson, Ralph Hawkins, John James, Eric Mottram, Wendy Mulford, Jeff Nuttall, Tom Pickard, Colin Simms, Ken Smith. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism,since it is the merger of state and corporate power." =97 Benito Mussolini =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D Pierre Joris 244 Elm Street Albany NY 12202 home: 518 442-4071 cell: 518 225 7123 office: 518 442 40 85 Paris: 01 43 54 95 13 French cell: 06 75 43 57 10 email: joris@albany.edu http://pierrejoris.com Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 04:45:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: UK Poets In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Paul Green. Check out "Directions to the Dead End" and "Gestalt Bunker" at http://www.culturecourt.com/Audio/PG/PGaudio.htm . These are downloadable audio pieces from the seventies and are some of the best recordings of poetic works I've heard (and still sound like they could be contemporary). Also check out the text of a recent radio play called "The Terminal Poet" at http://www.greatworks.org.uk/poems/ttp.html : "Poet Charles Kenning was once a darling of the literary world. Now a drink-sodden wreck, he's holed up in an inner city high-rise, unaware that agents of an American think-tank are monitoring his squalor. For both the Helicon Foundation and the British Cabinet have a use for him in their hi-tech struggle against urban anarchy and the strange powers of the Quantum Slut Crew. . ." ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 08:57:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Dowker Subject: Re: UK Poets In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For what it's worth, one could go to http://ca.geocities.com/alterra@rogers.com/ scroll down to the Index and find work from the following UK poets: Caroline Bergvall * Of Flesh and Vital Material * RUSH (a long way from H) . . . Ken Edwards * Glory Boxes: 5 Allen Fisher * _from_ Gravity as a consequence of shape: TENSOR * Trucking Alan Halsey * Bardo Panavision 1949 * _from_ Memory Screen Ralph Hawkins * Temptress: A Timeless Theme . . . Trevor Joyce * Data Shadows . . . Tony Lopez * Five Peter Manson * Birth Windows Travesty Peter Middleton * _from_ After The Master: TRAVEL Drew Milne * _from_ 'The Gates of Gaza' * _from_ Ill At These Numbers Geraldine Monk *Pa(x) Andrew Nightingale * Jasmine and the Fox Giles Scott * _from_ Auscultation Fiona Templeton * Recognition -- Act V Lawrence Upton * interrogation David alterra@rogers.com http://ca.geocities.com/alterra@rogers.com/ Jason Quackenbush wrote: > Hi all, > I've been reading "Children of Albion" the last couple of days, and it > has come to my attention as i'm tracking down the names of some of the > poets I like in here that my knowledge of current poetry from the UK > is woefully lacking. I'm particularly enjoying Gael Turnbull and > Adrian Mitchell who I discovered here. Can anyone recommend any other > poets from Great Britain, particular Scots or Welsh poets? or good > anthologies that are more recent? I understand that there were some > important poets left out of Children of Albion that a lot of people > thought should have been in it, at least, so says wikipedia. Any recs > for any of those? > > thanks for all answers, > Jason > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 09:25:20 -0400 Reply-To: junction@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: UK Poets Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Geoff Squires Peter Riley Maurice Scully -----Original Message----- >From: Pierre Joris >Sent: Aug 19, 2006 6:17 AM >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: UK Poets > >On Aug 18, 2006, at 11:12 PM, Jordan Stempleman wrote: > >> Tom Raworth, Bill Griffiths, Trevor Joyce, Maggie O'Sullivan, =20 >> Elizabeth James, Geraldine Monk, Mair=E9ad Byrne, Tom Leonard, Billy =20 >> Mills... > >& do not forget > >Allen Fisher, >Douglas Oliver, >Ulli Freer, >Iain Sinclair, >Asa Benveniste, >Paul Brown, >Veronica Forrest-Thomson, >Ralph Hawkins, > John James, > Eric Mottram, >Wendy Mulford, >Jeff Nuttall, >Tom Pickard, >Colin Simms, >Ken Smith. > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > "Fascism should more properly >be called corporatism,since it is the >merger of state and corporate power." > ? Benito Mussolini >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >Pierre Joris >244 Elm Street >Albany NY 12202 >home: 518 442-4071 >cell: 518 225 7123 >office: 518 442 40 85 >Paris: 01 43 54 95 13 >French cell: 06 75 43 57 10 >email: joris@albany.edu >http://pierrejoris.com >Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 09:37:28 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Deborah Reich Subject: Poetry-comics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There was a recent post on a poetry-comics website & I've misplaced it. Could someone backchannel me at _depot2000@aol.com_ (mailto:depot2000@aol.com) ? Thanks, D. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 11:30:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Request for submissions: a Big Bridge mini-anthology Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Friends and neighbors-- For a mini-anthology of poems inspired by/responding to/related to Allen Ginsberg's poem "Death on All Fronts" and/or the various wars/insurgencies/etc. going on in the world today, please send 1-6 poems to me at halvard@earthlink.net with the words "Big Bridge" followed by your own name in the subject line. Unidentified submissions may be lost or discarded--advertantly or inadvertantly. The poems submitted may be either previously published or unpublished and brand-new. We cannot, though, seek or pay for reprint permissions from publishers. This mini-anthology (approx. 30 poems) will appear in the January issue of Big Bridge, and submissions of work will be accepted until the end of November. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org Death on All Fronts "The Planet is Finished" A new moon looks down on our sick sweet planet Orion's chased the Immovable Bear halfway across the sky from winter to winter. I wake, earlier in bed, fly corpses cover gas lit sheets, my head aches, left temple brain fibre throbbing for Death I created on all Fronts. Poisoned rats in the Chickenhouse and myriad lice Sprayed with white arsenics filtering to the brook, City Cockroaches stomped on Country kitchen floors. No babies for me. Cut earth boy & girl hordes by half & breathe free say Revolutionary expert Computers: Half the blue globe's germ population's more than enough keep the cloudy lung from stinking pneumonia. I called in the Exterminator Who soaked the Wall floor with bed-bug death-oil. Who'll soak my brain with death-oil? I wake before dawn dreading my wooden possessions, my gnostic books, my loud mouth, old loves silent, charms turned to image money, my body sexless fat, Father dying, Earth Cities poisoned at war, my art hopeless -- Mind fragmented--and still abstract--Pain in left temple living death -- Sept. 26, 1969 --Allen Ginsberg fr. The Fall of America: poems of these states -- 1965-1971 [San Francisco: City Lights, 1972] ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 01:47:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: Request for submissions: a Big Bridge mini-anthology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hal i'm covered on this one right? steve ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 11:16:51 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: UK Poets In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Elizabeth James http://www.cottage.clara.net Pauline Masurel http://unfurling.net Steve Duffy http://www.debris.org.uk Simon Biggs http://www.littlepig.org.uk ja ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 14:52:01 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eric Yost Subject: politics and poetry Comments: To: poetics@listserv.buffalo.edu. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael Edgerton wrote: "I certainly don't think anything escapes the political--fantasmatic, ideological, etc.--in the broadest sense . . . " Perhaps one could turn this around and suggest that nothing escapes the poetical? The problem with exclusively political poetry, it seems, is that poetry is larger than politics. Politics is a party uniform, a code, a stricture. Politics is permission to disregard people who do not share one's politics. Politics tells who to hate, who to love, and what to expect. Poetry, on the other hand, starts with a good line, a hint, the sound of the world. The only party uniform of the poem is the poem. Poetry pulls away from politics and vice versa. The most successful political poems, in my opinion, are created in moments of equilibrium between these opposing dynamics. Best to all, Eric Yost Pennsylvania ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 15:26:28 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Blackbox live MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello everyone, The Blackbox summer gallery is now online. The gallery features works by Sheila E. Murphy, John M. Bennett, david-baptiste chirot, Skip Fox, Geoffrey Gaza, Igor Satanovsky, Mike Magazinnik, K.S. Ernst, Irving Weiss, Vernon Frazer, Megan Burns, Reed Altemus, Peter Ciccariello, and Halvard Johnson. As always, go to WilliamJamesAustin.com and follow the Blackbox link. Then take a long stroll (scroll) through the galleries until you reach the latest exhibition. Sincere thanks to everyone who sent work. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com KojaPress.com SPDbooks.org Amazon.com BarnesandNoble.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 13:47:55 -0700 Reply-To: Michael Tod Edgerton Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Tod Edgerton Subject: Re: politics and poetry In-Reply-To: <44E75DD1.4090601@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Well, without thinking it through, my initial response is to say rather that far too much escapes the poetical. I would replace the word "poetical" as you used it below with "rhetorical," which maybe approaches the *broader* use of the term political I was referencing (you responded, however, as though I were using the term in its more commonplace, narrower valence). But then we're back to "ideological," which is perhaps (as I was arguing) inescapable. I think this circuity is endemic to the beast. So, I agree with you as long as we can agree on our terms, except that I don't think, as I started out saying, that we quite agree on the use of the word "poetical".... I would feel hesitant to place in any simple oppositional relation, discrete borders and all, the political/ideological and the poetical forms of language. I tend to allow myself the indulgence of believing that "poetic" language is, in fact, inherently more unstable/destabilizing because it foregrounds that aspect of language that kristeva has termed "semiotic" and is more polysemous. Maybe that's just what I need to think to give permission to the utter self-indulgence of my artistic practice?? I'm ultimately mainly interested in poetry as a mode of desire/jouissance and do believe that that desire is in fact important to my life but does not necessarily conform or contribute directly to any socially positive, progressive agenda.... Because I was just considering teaching the Sonnets to Orpheus (and recently echoed it in a poem) (and because I've been reading Gass' book and am in love with it, as I am with Rilke generally these days) (little Disappointed Romantic that I am): Singing is Being.... True singing is a different kind of breath. A breath about nothing. A gust in the god. A wind. Best, Tod Michael Tod Edgerton Poet-in-Residence, Spring 2006 Stonehill College __________________ Peter Kaplan Memorial Fellow, 2004 - 2006 Program in Literary Arts Brown University "There's the mute probability of a reciprocal lack of understanding" - Mei-mei Berssenbrugge ----- Original Message ---- From: Eric Yost To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 2:52:01 PM Subject: politics and poetry Michael Edgerton wrote: "I certainly don't think anything escapes the political--fantasmatic, ideological, etc.--in the broadest sense . . . " Perhaps one could turn this around and suggest that nothing escapes the poetical? The problem with exclusively political poetry, it seems, is that poetry is larger than politics. Politics is a party uniform, a code, a stricture. Politics is permission to disregard people who do not share one's politics. Politics tells who to hate, who to love, and what to expect. Poetry, on the other hand, starts with a good line, a hint, the sound of the world. The only party uniform of the poem is the poem. Poetry pulls away from politics and vice versa. The most successful political poems, in my opinion, are created in moments of equilibrium between these opposing dynamics. Best to all, Eric Yost Pennsylvania ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 20:13:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Heatstrings Blog MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Recently on the blog; Sharon Thesen Rufus Harley, RIP Howard Rambsy review more war <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 18:53:36 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: elen Subject: FW: Cervena Barva Press Poetry Reading (KGB Bar in NYC) Comments: cc: Brown Writing List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 =20 "CERVENA BARVA PRESS" POETS AT KGB BAR =20 =20 SAVE THE DATE!! Tuesday, September 12 (7 - 9pm)=20 =20 =20 4 POETS / 4 POINTS OF VIEW: =20 =20 =20 SUSAN TEPPER reading love poems from her new chapbook "BLUE EDGE" =20 GEORGE HELD will read from his new chapbook "W is for WAR" =20 ANDREY GRITSMAN presenting his new collection "LONG FALL", plus other = poems=20 =20 WILLIAM JAMES AUSTIN will read from his "UNDERWOR(L)D" series =20 =20 Gloria Mindock, editor of Cervena Barva Press, will be hosting =20 =20 KGB BAR 85 EAST 4th STREET NYC (212) 769-6816 FREE =20 http://www.kgbbar.com/ =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Gloria Mindock, Editor editor@cervenabarvapress.com http://www.cervenabarvapress.com http://www.thelostbookshelf.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 21:26:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Haas Bianchi Subject: Re: don't deport this woman, in re raymond bianchi In-Reply-To: <20060819044058.29687.qmail@web35515.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alex: We had to endure questions like "is your wife going to work as a prostitute in the US" because she is from Brazil so don't tell me about horrifying stories. I paid the normal fees and worked without a lawyer for the immigration of my wife and I was without funds at the time. I guess that if a law is inconvienent just ignore It? Which laws should we ignore? How do we determine which ones to ignore? One of the facts purposely left out of all this hand wringing is that this person stole another person's Social Security number and the woman whose number she stole was on radio here in Chicago and her number was used by many people to get credit cards, loans and jobs her life was destroyed what right does this "immigrant" have to do that? Things are not black and white they are grey especially about immigration. I would love to see a more humane system of immigration but stealing identities and violating laws is not a road to justice Ray -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Alexander Dickow Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 11:41 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: don't deport this woman, in re raymond bianchi Raymond, this woman may not have been able to *afford*, as you apparently were (eventually, at least), the EXORBITANT costs of immigration procedures -- and that's without the legal counsel, which has become almost necessary to avoid serious complications in many instances (this formulation amounts to euphemism). I speak from experience: my wife is French. I feel immensely grateful for the privilege I have (it's terribly sad to say, but it may have far too much to do with being a white man married to a Western European woman: I could tell you horrifying stories...). In short, and with all due respect, I find your opinion somewhat indelicately expressed. Do you presume to know this woman's story? I grant you, a degree of skepticism may be in order: these kinds of tales get spun one way (100% martyr, victim of evil injustice) as often, perhaps, as they get spun in the other (100% martyr-free, good-for-nothing illegal immigrant lawbreaker). In addition, you write this: "Why should this woman get special treatment but those of us who follow the law have to sacrifice?" This sounds a bit too much like a translation for "I had to suffer, so everyone else should too." Two wrongs apparently make a right? Or am I misunderstanding you? Permit me, then, to err on the side of charity, and express my personal solidarity with this woman: DOWN WITH THE US IMMIGRATION MACHINE. It is an engine for all kinds of injustices, especially now: it was built for those injustices from the beginning. Alex Raymond Bianchi wrote: "This woman entered the USA illegally after she was deported and this is why she is being sought. I am frankly tired of this kind of thing. When I married my wife who is a Brazilian we had to live apart for 10 months in order for her to enter the US legally we could not see each other and she had to stay in Brazil. Why should this woman get special treatment but those of us who follow the law have to sacrifice? I am not anti-immigrant my wife, mother, father are all immigrants but legal ones if you want open borders then pass a law to open the borders until then these are the laws we have in the US." "Ce dont le poete souffre le plus dans ses rapports avec le monde, c'est du manque de justice _interne_. La vitre-cloaque de Caliban derriere laquelle les yeux tout-puissants et sensibles d'Ariel s'irritent." Rene Char, _Partage Formel_, fragment II ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 21:59:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Quartermain Subject: FW: Be Skeptical about British Bomb Plot MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Not, I guess, exactly poetry or poetics, but, well . . . ========= Peter Quartermain 846 Keefer Street Vancouver BC Canada V6A 1Y7 604 255 8274 (voice) 604 255 8204 fax quarterm@interchange.ubc.ca ========= Subject: Fwd: Be Skeptical about British Bomb Plot > > >>Subject: Be Skeptical about British Bomb Plot >>Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 06:47:34 +0000 >> >>Dear Friends: Please read the message below. Timing is everything >>in politics. Arrests of the bomb plotters came at the right time >>to divert attention from the Lieberman loss, the disastrous and >>ill-advised Iraq War, Israel's attempt to soften up Hezbollah in >>preparation for the U.S. attack on Iran planned for next year (see >>Seymour Hersch's revealing article in the current New Yorker). The >>New York Times recently reported that a Pakistani named Rauf was >>the supposed Al Qaeda connection with the young British >>plotters. Much like the scenario of the Black Muslim group in >>Miami, it's likely that an agent (Rauf) approached the young Brits >>with a spectacular plan to attack airplanes. His real goal was to >>set up the group for a fall when it was useful. Sadly, the young >>men, most of them assimilated middle class Brits, went for the >>bait. When the details are finally revealed after the November >>election, they will probably show that the group had no possession >>of bomb materials. >> >>This is once more the politics of fear. >> >>Best, PH >> >>Subject: Bomb plot - a VERY different take ... >>Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 15:17:58 +0000 >> > The UK Terror plot: what's really going on? >> > August 14, 2006 >> > Craig Murray >> > http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/index.html >> > >> > [As Britain's outspoken Ambassador to the Central >> > Asian Republic of Uzbekistan, Craig Murray helped >> > expose vicious human rights abuses by the >> > US-funded regime of Islam Karimov. He is now >> > a prominent critic of Western policy in the region.] >> > >> > >> > I have been reading very carefully through all the Sunday newspapers >> > to try and analyse the truth from all the scores of pages claiming to >> > detail the so-called bomb plot. Unlike the great herd of so-called >> > security experts doing the media analysis, I have the advantage of >> > having had the very highest security clearances myself, having done a >> > huge amount of professional intelligence analysis, and having been >> > inside the spin machine. >> > >> > So this, I believe, is the true story. >> > >> > None of the alleged terrorists had made a bomb. None had bought a >> > plane ticket. Many did not even have passports, which given the >> > efficiency of the UK Passport Agency would mean they couldn't be a >> > plane bomber for quite some time. >> > >> > In the absence of bombs and airline tickets, and in many cases >> > passports, it could be pretty difficult to convince a jury beyond >> > reasonable doubt that individuals intended to go through with suicide >> > bombings, whatever rash stuff they may have bragged in internet chat >> > rooms. >> > >> > What is more, many of those arrested had been under surveillance for >> > over a year - like thousands of other British Muslims. And not just >> > Muslims. Like me. Nothing from that surveillance had indicated the >> > need for early arrests. >> > >> > Then an interrogation in Pakistan revealed the details of this amazing >> > plot to blow up multiple planes - which, rather extraordinarily, had >> > not turned up in a year of surveillance. Of course, the interrogators >> > of the Pakistani dictator have their ways of making people sing like >> > canaries. As I witnessed in Uzbekistan, you can get the most >> > extraordinary information this way. Trouble is it always tends to give >> > the interrogators all they might want, and more, in a desperate effort >> > to stop or avert torture. What it doesn't give is the truth. >> > >> > The gentleman being "interrogated" had fled the UK after being wanted >> > for questioning over the murder of his uncle some years ago. That >> > might be felt to cast some doubt on his reliability. It might also be >> > felt that factors other than political ones might be at play within >> > these relationships. Much is also being made of large transfers of >> > money outside the formal economy. Not in fact too unusual in the >> > British Muslim community, but if this activity is criminal, there are >> > many possibilities that have nothing to do with terrorism. >> > >> > We then have the extraordinary question of Bush and Blair discussing >> > the possible arrests over the weekend. Why? I think the answer to that >> > is plain. Both in desperate domestic political trouble, they longed >> > for "Another 9/11". The intelligence from Pakistan, however dodgy, >> > gave them a new 9/11 they could sell to the media. The media has >> > bought, wholesale, all the rubbish they have been shovelled. >> > >> > We then have the appalling political propaganda of John Reid, Home >> > Secretary, making a speech warning us all of the dreadful evil >> > threatening us and complaining that "Some people don't get" the need >> > to abandon all our traditional liberties. He then went on, according >> > to his own propaganda machine, to stay up all night and minutely >> > direct the arrests. There could be no clearer evidence that our Police >> > are now just a political tool. Like all the best nasty regimes, the >> > knock on the door came in the middle of the night, at 2.30am. Those >> > arrested included a mother with a six week old baby. >> > >> > For those who don't know, it is worth introducing Reid. A hardened >> > Stalinist with a long term reputation for personal violence, at >> > Stirling Univeristy he was the Communist Party's "Enforcer", (in days >> > when the Communist Party ran Stirling University Students' Union, >> > which it should not be forgotten was a business with a very >> > substantial cash turnover). Reid was sent to beat up those who >> > deviated from the Party line. >> > >> > We will now never know if any of those arrested would have gone on to >> > make a bomb or buy a plane ticket. Most of them do not fit the "Loner" >> > profile you would expect - a tiny percentage of suicide bombers have >> > happy marriages and young children. As they were all under >> > surveillance, and certainly would have been on airport watch lists, >> > there could have been little danger in letting them proceed closer to >> > maturity - that is certainly what we would have done with the IRA. >> > >> > In all of this, the one thing of which I am certain is that the timing >> > is deeply political. This is more propaganda than plot. Of the over >> > one thousand British Muslims arrested under anti-terrorist >> > legislation, only twelve per cent are ever charged with anything. That >> > is simply harrassment of Muslims on an appalling scale. Of those >> > charged, 80% are acquitted. Most of the very few - just over two per >> > cent of arrests - who are convicted, are not convicted of anything to >> > do terrorism, but of some minor offence the Police happened upon while >> > trawling through the wreck of the lives they had shattered. >> > >> > Be sceptical. Be very, very sceptical. > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.1/421 - Release Date: 8/16/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.1/421 - Release Date: 8/16/2006 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 11:51:58 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: politics and poetry Comments: To: michael_tod_edgerton@yahoo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit heard baraka tonight politics and poetry defined ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 22:14:36 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alexander Dickow Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 18 Aug 2006 to 19 Aug 2006 (#2006-232) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ray, Food for thought, thank you, Ray. I think your skepticism, which leads you to pay attention to the facts, is laudable, and as I noted, I'm not surprised to hear there's a lot of misinformation about this case. There always is with these things one way or the other, it seems (see, interesting side note, the real facts of the infamous Coffee-burn-woman-sues-MacDonald's-scandal as revealed by the author of Too Much Coffee Man...). My response to your message had less to do with the facts (or unfacts) of the particular case, and more with the kind of rhetorical posture I felt you adopted, certain expressions.... I do think it's a pretty grey issue, as you say. I sure wish it were cut and dried. But the civil disobedience issue is more interesting and important than this woman's case. I think, Ray, that some laws that should be "ignored", in fact. But I don't think this woman's actions have anything to do with civil disobedience, really. Too much self-interest without regard for consequences (ie, destroying lives or whatever). But for every woman like this one, I wonder if there isn't another perfectly innocent victim of deportation/immigration law who is unjustly prevented from being with their families, and who isn't doing anyone a whole lot of harm, in my view. Anyway, I sympathize with your bad memories of US immigration. Yours, Alex Ray Bianchi wrote: "Alex: We had to endure questions like "is your wife going to work as a prostitute in the US" because she is from Brazil so don't tell me about horrifying stories. I paid the normal fees and worked without a lawyer for the immigration of my wife and I was without funds at the time. I guess that if a law is inconvienent just ignore It? Which laws should we ignore? How do we determine which ones to ignore? One of the facts purposely left out of all this hand wringing is that this person stole another person's Social Security number and the woman whose number she stole was on radio here in Chicago and her number was used by many people to get credit cards, loans and jobs her life was destroyed what right does this "immigrant" have to do that? Things are not black and white they are grey especially about immigration. I would love to see a more humane system of immigration but stealing identities and violating laws is not a road to justice Ray" "Ce dont le poete souffre le plus dans ses rapports avec le monde, c'est du manque de justice _interne_. La vitre-cloaque de Caliban derriere laquelle les yeux tout-puissants et sensibles d'Ariel s'irritent." Rene Char, _Partage Formel_, fragment II ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 02:04:45 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AG Jorgensen Subject: MFA vs MA In-Reply-To: <20060820051436.47759.qmail@web35513.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Once had a friend ask me: Why get something as arbitary as an MFA? What are your thoughts? I am making this decision at the moment and would appreciate your thoughts - nails, wires, egos and all? My background is in English, lots of experience in film and cultural anthropology. I am a writer, however, and do, or should I say, but do think myself better suited to environment of rigerous intellectual debate (chose not to use discourse) - for what I can learn, the acrobatics of exchange, and then I think I've got stuff to contribute, share. AGJ --- "Our best security, our only security, is in the world of ideas, and I sense a slight foreboding," he said.-- Justice Anthony Kennedy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 02:09:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AG Jorgensen Subject: Re: UK Poets - any UK pubs (not for pint drinking) worth looking into In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Suggestions on publications in the UK. Uk based journals and online pubs. Time, always, is appreciated. AGJ --- "Our best security, our only security, is in the world of ideas, and I sense a slight foreboding," he said.-- Justice Anthony Kennedy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 03:43:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Deb King Subject: Benefit for Trino Sanchez In-Reply-To: <20060820090445.97842.qmail@web54615.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit More than a dozen artists, poets and musicians, will be celebrating the life of the recently deceased Trinidad Sanchez Jr. , author of Why Am I so Brown?, Jalapeno Blues, Authentic Chicano Food Is Hot and Poems of the Son /Poesias del Padre. Each poet will read one original work and one work by Sanchez. In addition to the music and poetry, the event will feature a short DVD of Sanchez reading his own work. Admission is free for the event which takes place Thursday, August 24, 2006 at 7:00 PM at the Cass Cafe 4260 Cass Avenue near Forest. . Trinidad Trino Sánchez, Jr. touched the lives of many. Born in Pontiac, he spent many years in Detroit where he was a staple of the poetry scene. He and his wife, Regina Chávez y Sánchez, were living in San Antonio, Texas when he suffered two debilitating strokes and passed away July 30. * Admission free; donations requested to help offset medical bills * Trino’s books on sale that night Donations may also be sent to: Regina Chávez y Sánchez 803 Fredericksburg Rd San Antonio, TX 78201 Featuring Poets: Terry Blackhawk Ana Cardona Perri Giovannucci Lolita Hernandez Kim Hunter ML Liebler Wardell Montgomery Gil Saenz Dennis Teichman Mick Vranich Ray Waller Willie Williams and others… Music by Ozzie Rivera, a popular member of Detroit's salsa scene who will bring his unique take on Afro Caribbean rhythms to the affair. Plus: Video showing of Trino reading his signature poems: “Why Am I So Brown” and “Let Us Stop This Madness” --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 03:43:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Deb King Subject: Benefit for Trino Sanchez In-Reply-To: <20060820090445.97842.qmail@web54615.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit More than a dozen artists, poets and musicians, will be celebrating the life of the recently deceased Trinidad Sanchez Jr. , author of Why Am I so Brown?, Jalapeno Blues, Authentic Chicano Food Is Hot and Poems of the Son /Poesias del Padre. Each poet will read one original work and one work by Sanchez. In addition to the music and poetry, the event will feature a short DVD of Sanchez reading his own work. Admission is free for the event which takes place Thursday, August 24, 2006 at 7:00 PM at the Cass Cafe 4260 Cass Avenue near Forest. . Trinidad Trino Sánchez, Jr. touched the lives of many. Born in Pontiac, he spent many years in Detroit where he was a staple of the poetry scene. He and his wife, Regina Chávez y Sánchez, were living in San Antonio, Texas when he suffered two debilitating strokes and passed away July 30. * Admission free; donations requested to help offset medical bills * Trino’s books on sale that night Donations may also be sent to: Regina Chávez y Sánchez 803 Fredericksburg Rd San Antonio, TX 78201 Featuring Poets: Terry Blackhawk Ana Cardona Perri Giovannucci Lolita Hernandez Kim Hunter ML Liebler Wardell Montgomery Gil Saenz Dennis Teichman Mick Vranich Ray Waller Willie Williams and others… Music by Ozzie Rivera, a popular member of Detroit's salsa scene who will bring his unique take on Afro Caribbean rhythms to the affair. Plus: Video showing of Trino reading his signature poems: “Why Am I So Brown” and “Let Us Stop This Madness” --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 06:14:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adam Fieled Subject: Re: UK Poets - any UK pubs (not for pint drinking) worth looking into In-Reply-To: <20060820090924.60741.qmail@web54603.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I think Nth Position (http://www.nthposition.com) might be the classiest online UK pub, kind of the JACKET of London. Great Works (http://www.greatworks.org.uk) is good too, and the Argotist (http://www.argotistonline.co.uk). "Stride" has some decent stuff on it as well. adam fieled AG Jorgensen wrote: Suggestions on publications in the UK. Uk based journals and online pubs. Time, always, is appreciated. AGJ --- "Our best security, our only security, is in the world of ideas, and I sense a slight foreboding," he said.-- Justice Anthony Kennedy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 04:05:49 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabrielle Welford Subject: Re: FW: Be Skeptical about British Bomb Plot In-Reply-To: <000201c6c415$682d89d0$465e17cf@Diogenes> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT and, but well... this came from an irish friend who has long lived in colombia with a group i used to live with in ireland. she's first responding to a hoaxy email about mars sent out by another emailer and moving on to speak of this hoax. i'll forward your find to them, peter, thank you. gabe -------------------------------------------------------------------- On Fri, 11 Aug 2006, anne barr wrote: > Dear Friends, > > As you may already have figured out this is one of those hoaxes that one > cannot understand why anyone would even bother to invent. I was rather > suspicious when I read the bit about Mars seeming to be as big as the full > Moon, that really sounded like the end of the world so I did a Google > search. Here are the results. > > By *August 2006 Mars* is roughly on the opposite side of the Sun from *Earth > *, close to its farthest point from us rather than *near* us! *...* > www.floridastars.org/*mars*hoax.*2006*.html > > On the same theme of not believing everything we hear or read, this London > airport terrorists and bombs uproar from this distance seems like another > enormous and much more serious hoax to justify what is going on in Lebanon > and Iraq. Strange coincidence that they are also saying on the same BBC > World news programmes that the British soldiers in Iraq need more money for > arms....and that they've stopped reporting so much on the Israeli massacre > and invasion of yet another country. > > If anyone knows anymore about this I would love to be informed as it seems > very dirty. > > All the best to all of us in these terrible times. > > Anne > On Sat, 19 Aug 2006, Peter Quartermain wrote: > Not, I guess, exactly poetry or poetics, but, well . . . > > ========= > Peter Quartermain > 846 Keefer Street > Vancouver > BC Canada V6A 1Y7 > 604 255 8274 (voice) > 604 255 8204 fax > quarterm@interchange.ubc.ca > ========= > > Subject: Fwd: Be Skeptical about British Bomb Plot > > > >>Subject: Be Skeptical about British Bomb Plot > >>Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 06:47:34 +0000 > >> > >>Dear Friends: Please read the message below. Timing is everything > >>in politics. Arrests of the bomb plotters came at the right time > >>to divert attention from the Lieberman loss, the disastrous and > >>ill-advised Iraq War, Israel's attempt to soften up Hezbollah in > >>preparation for the U.S. attack on Iran planned for next year (see > >>Seymour Hersch's revealing article in the current New Yorker). The > >>New York Times recently reported that a Pakistani named Rauf was > >>the supposed Al Qaeda connection with the young British > >>plotters. Much like the scenario of the Black Muslim group in > >>Miami, it's likely that an agent (Rauf) approached the young Brits > >>with a spectacular plan to attack airplanes. His real goal was to > >>set up the group for a fall when it was useful. Sadly, the young > >>men, most of them assimilated middle class Brits, went for the > >>bait. When the details are finally revealed after the November > >>election, they will probably show that the group had no possession > >>of bomb materials. > >> > >>This is once more the politics of fear. > >> > >>Best, PH > >> > >>Subject: Bomb plot - a VERY different take ... > >>Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 15:17:58 +0000 > >> > The UK Terror plot: what's really going on? > >> > August 14, 2006 > >> > Craig Murray > >> > http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/index.html > >> > > >> > [As Britain's outspoken Ambassador to the Central > >> > Asian Republic of Uzbekistan, Craig Murray helped > >> > expose vicious human rights abuses by the > >> > US-funded regime of Islam Karimov. He is now > >> > a prominent critic of Western policy in the region.] > >> > > >> > > >> > I have been reading very carefully through all the Sunday newspapers > >> > to try and analyse the truth from all the scores of pages claiming to > >> > detail the so-called bomb plot. Unlike the great herd of so-called > >> > security experts doing the media analysis, I have the advantage of > >> > having had the very highest security clearances myself, having done a > >> > huge amount of professional intelligence analysis, and having been > >> > inside the spin machine. > >> > > >> > So this, I believe, is the true story. > >> > > >> > None of the alleged terrorists had made a bomb. None had bought a > >> > plane ticket. Many did not even have passports, which given the > >> > efficiency of the UK Passport Agency would mean they couldn't be a > >> > plane bomber for quite some time. > >> > > >> > In the absence of bombs and airline tickets, and in many cases > >> > passports, it could be pretty difficult to convince a jury beyond > >> > reasonable doubt that individuals intended to go through with suicide > >> > bombings, whatever rash stuff they may have bragged in internet chat > >> > rooms. > >> > > >> > What is more, many of those arrested had been under surveillance for > >> > over a year - like thousands of other British Muslims. And not just > >> > Muslims. Like me. Nothing from that surveillance had indicated the > >> > need for early arrests. > >> > > >> > Then an interrogation in Pakistan revealed the details of this amazing > >> > plot to blow up multiple planes - which, rather extraordinarily, had > >> > not turned up in a year of surveillance. Of course, the interrogators > >> > of the Pakistani dictator have their ways of making people sing like > >> > canaries. As I witnessed in Uzbekistan, you can get the most > >> > extraordinary information this way. Trouble is it always tends to give > >> > the interrogators all they might want, and more, in a desperate effort > >> > to stop or avert torture. What it doesn't give is the truth. > >> > > >> > The gentleman being "interrogated" had fled the UK after being wanted > >> > for questioning over the murder of his uncle some years ago. That > >> > might be felt to cast some doubt on his reliability. It might also be > >> > felt that factors other than political ones might be at play within > >> > these relationships. Much is also being made of large transfers of > >> > money outside the formal economy. Not in fact too unusual in the > >> > British Muslim community, but if this activity is criminal, there are > >> > many possibilities that have nothing to do with terrorism. > >> > > >> > We then have the extraordinary question of Bush and Blair discussing > >> > the possible arrests over the weekend. Why? I think the answer to that > >> > is plain. Both in desperate domestic political trouble, they longed > >> > for "Another 9/11". The intelligence from Pakistan, however dodgy, > >> > gave them a new 9/11 they could sell to the media. The media has > >> > bought, wholesale, all the rubbish they have been shovelled. > >> > > >> > We then have the appalling political propaganda of John Reid, Home > >> > Secretary, making a speech warning us all of the dreadful evil > >> > threatening us and complaining that "Some people don't get" the need > >> > to abandon all our traditional liberties. He then went on, according > >> > to his own propaganda machine, to stay up all night and minutely > >> > direct the arrests. There could be no clearer evidence that our Police > >> > are now just a political tool. Like all the best nasty regimes, the > >> > knock on the door came in the middle of the night, at 2.30am. Those > >> > arrested included a mother with a six week old baby. > >> > > >> > For those who don't know, it is worth introducing Reid. A hardened > >> > Stalinist with a long term reputation for personal violence, at > >> > Stirling Univeristy he was the Communist Party's "Enforcer", (in days > >> > when the Communist Party ran Stirling University Students' Union, > >> > which it should not be forgotten was a business with a very > >> > substantial cash turnover). Reid was sent to beat up those who > >> > deviated from the Party line. > >> > > >> > We will now never know if any of those arrested would have gone on to > >> > make a bomb or buy a plane ticket. Most of them do not fit the "Loner" > >> > profile you would expect - a tiny percentage of suicide bombers have > >> > happy marriages and young children. As they were all under > >> > surveillance, and certainly would have been on airport watch lists, > >> > there could have been little danger in letting them proceed closer to > >> > maturity - that is certainly what we would have done with the IRA. > >> > > >> > In all of this, the one thing of which I am certain is that the timing > >> > is deeply political. This is more propaganda than plot. Of the over > >> > one thousand British Muslims arrested under anti-terrorist > >> > legislation, only twelve per cent are ever charged with anything. That > >> > is simply harrassment of Muslims on an appalling scale. Of those > >> > charged, 80% are acquitted. Most of the very few - just over two per > >> > cent of arrests - who are convicted, are not convicted of anything to > >> > do terrorism, but of some minor offence the Police happened upon while > >> > trawling through the wreck of the lives they had shattered. > >> > > >> > Be sceptical. Be very, very sceptical. > > > > > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. > >Checked by AVG Free Edition. > >Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.1/421 - Release Date: 8/16/2006 > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.1/421 - Release Date: 8/16/2006 > gabrielle welford welford@hawaii.edu Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.595 / Virus Database: 378 - Release Date: 2/25/2004 wilhelm reich anarcho-syndicalism gut/heart/head/earth ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 15:39:23 +0100 Reply-To: wild honey press Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: wild honey press Subject: Holding Patterns read by Susan M. Schultz Comments: To: UKPoetry , POETRYETC@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As the first in a series of mp3 readings, I'm delighted to announce that _Holding Patterns_ by Susan M. Schultz can be heard at www.wildhoneypress.com Click on the link on the home page. Then either left click the link on the next page to hear it or right click and choose "save target" to download it. best Randolph PS Apologies if you receive this more than once. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 10:53:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: heidi arnold Subject: Re: MFA vs MA In-Reply-To: <20060820090445.97842.qmail@web54615.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline --here are a few random, commonplace thoughts, reasons for (saving some bucks) sticking with grad work in english and not going for an mfa -- with the caveat that training in craft has to be found and worked somewhere but there are other sources -- a just starting out poet like me doesn't need to suck up to the mfa apparatus tho -- -- the money to pay mfa tuition can pay for good (random) short-term workshops as well as travel to meet/hang with poets of other cultures/traditions -- this is a lot more information-dense than a sterile classroom -- San Christobal de las Casas used to have some expatriate poets too, there are lots of places like this -- --i'm sure this has been said before but it's still true: in a classroom setting a poem can become like an old dissected frog -- this is probably a worst-case scenario even though in the best classrooms not so -- there's always going to be a dead frog on the table that the poem is threatened with becoming -- the academic claim to insight in the classroom dialogue i think depends on the presence or ghost of this dead frog -- because we can kill the poem if we need to, we can claim to gain understanding in the classroom by priding ourselves on preserving the poem's life in the surgical theatre -- i think it's a kind of sadism but that's just me --a classroom setting limits what you can do -- you can't really "kick it" because you're on an academic schedule with an academic hierarchy and assignments/grades and what have you -- it's just this fake apparatus (or worn-out theatre) and not poetry and not where poetry is going to come from -- --this is just my opinion -- if you go for the mfa best of luck hope it's not a waste of time and money --there are a lot of really incredible, committed people in the university i just don't think that's where the poetry is -- where the poetry is, like everyone else i hope, i wonder -- --i should probably have more coffee for what it's worth -h On 8/20/06, AG Jorgensen wrote: > > Once had a friend ask me: Why get something as > arbitary as an MFA? What are your thoughts? I am > making this decision at the moment and would > appreciate your thoughts - nails, wires, egos and all? > My background is in English, lots of experience in > film and cultural anthropology. I am a writer, > however, and do, or should I say, but do think myself > better suited to environment of rigerous intellectual > debate (chose not to use discourse) - for what I can > learn, the acrobatics of exchange, and then I think > I've got stuff to contribute, share. > > AGJ > > --- > "Our best security, our only security, is in the world of ideas, and I > sense a slight foreboding," he said.-- Justice Anthony Kennedy > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 05:02:06 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabrielle Welford Subject: Re: MFA vs MA In-Reply-To: <11d43b500608200753t606f1814ge56ac22a7489d8b2@mail.gmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT i did both m.a. (and was lucky enough to have david bromige there for that) and a ph.d. (that one starting as a creative and ending as a research dissertation--darn!). i started out because i write and wanted more discipline around it. the whole thing was amazing at letting me know i'm not stupid but, except for david, found no one i could work with on my poetry (sorry susan, i know i could have worked with you, but was already too discouraged by others in the department), and now here i sit trying to get back into the writing i really want to do. if you know enough to pick the right program, i think it could work well. best, gabe On Sun, 20 Aug 2006, heidi arnold wrote: > --here are a few random, commonplace thoughts, reasons for (saving some > bucks) sticking with grad work in english and not going for an mfa -- with > the caveat that training in craft has to be found and worked somewhere but > there are other sources -- a just starting out poet like me doesn't need to > suck up to the mfa apparatus tho -- > -- the money to pay mfa tuition can pay for good (random) short-term > workshops as well as travel to meet/hang with poets of other > cultures/traditions -- this is a lot more information-dense than a sterile > classroom -- San Christobal de las Casas used to have some expatriate poets > too, there are lots of places like this -- > --i'm sure this has been said before but it's still true: in a classroom > setting a poem can become like an old dissected frog -- this is probably a > worst-case scenario even though in the best classrooms not so -- there's > always going to be a dead frog on the table that the poem is threatened with > becoming -- the academic claim to insight in the classroom dialogue i think > depends on the presence or ghost of this dead frog -- because we can kill > the poem if we need to, we can claim to gain understanding in the classroom > by priding ourselves on preserving the poem's life in the surgical theatre > -- i think it's a kind of sadism but that's just me > --a classroom setting limits what you can do -- you can't really "kick it" > because you're on an academic schedule with an academic hierarchy and > assignments/grades and what have you -- it's just this fake apparatus (or > worn-out theatre) and not poetry and not where poetry is going to come from > -- > --this is just my opinion -- if you go for the mfa best of luck hope it's > not a waste of time and money > --there are a lot of really incredible, committed people in the university i > just don't think that's > where the poetry is -- where the poetry is, like everyone else i hope, i > wonder -- > --i should probably have more coffee > > for what it's worth > > -h > > On 8/20/06, AG Jorgensen wrote: > > > > Once had a friend ask me: Why get something as > > arbitary as an MFA? What are your thoughts? I am > > making this decision at the moment and would > > appreciate your thoughts - nails, wires, egos and all? > > My background is in English, lots of experience in > > film and cultural anthropology. I am a writer, > > however, and do, or should I say, but do think myself > > better suited to environment of rigerous intellectual > > debate (chose not to use discourse) - for what I can > > learn, the acrobatics of exchange, and then I think > > I've got stuff to contribute, share. > > > > AGJ > > > > --- > > "Our best security, our only security, is in the world of ideas, and I > > sense a slight foreboding," he said.-- Justice Anthony Kennedy > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > gabrielle welford welford@hawaii.edu Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.595 / Virus Database: 378 - Release Date: 2/25/2004 wilhelm reich anarcho-syndicalism gut/heart/head/earth ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 08:17:26 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Get Your Final Summer Groove On -- Glassman, Femenella, and Punschke In-Reply-To: <20060820131450.25034.qmail@web54501.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MiPOesias Reading Series presents Scott Glassman, Sara Femenella, and Meghan Punschke 7:00 PM -- Friday, August 25th Stain Bar 766 Grand Street (L to Grand, 1 block west) Williamsburg, Brooklyn http://www.stainbar.com ______________________________________ Scott Glassman lives in South Jersey and works in the medical testing field. He is the author of the forthcoming chapbook Exertions (Cy Gist, 2006), and Surface Tension (Dusie Kollektiv, 2006) with Mackenzie Carignan. His poems have appeared in OCHO, Epicenter, CutBank, Coconut, eratio, and others. He also co-curates the INVERSE Reading Series in Philadelphia. Sara Femenella has just returned to Brooklyn after six months studying and writing in St. Petersburg, Russia. She is starting Columbia University in the fall as an MFA candidate in poetry. Meghan Punschke resides in New York City and is currently attending the New School for an MFA in Poetry. She is the host and curator of "Word of Mouth," a reading series in the West Village dedicated to poets and fiction writers. This September, she will be hosting the first poetry event to be included in the Harlem Arts Festival. Punschke's work has also appeared in Free Focus. ____________________________________ Hope to see you there! Amy King & Didi Menendez MiPOesias -- http://www.mipoesias.com MiPOradio -- http://www.miporadio.net/index1.html Reading Series -- http://miporeadingseries.blogspot.com Managing Editor -- http://www.amyking.org/blog --------------------------------- Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 12:44:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Renee Ashley Subject: Re: MFA vs MA MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit It's odd, but an MFA is still considered a terminal degree. An MA is not. So ... it makes a huge difference if you're not going to get further degrees and want to teach (at least in MFA programs). ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 14:38:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: heidi arnold Subject: Re: MFA vs MA In-Reply-To: <003a01c6c477$f2581910$da66fea9@Barnette> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Gabrielle, I appreciate that your description of your programs hints at a kind of outsiderness -- --but if i required a classroom to keep my work going (and among scientists that's a very respectable claim to make, Feynman was among those who said this) -- but i'd quit right now if a classroom were necessary to write -- it's too expensive and then i'd be working to pay off tuition bills instead of writing anyway -h ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 14:52:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eric Yost Subject: Re: politics and poetry In-Reply-To: <20060819204755.77814.qmail@web54210.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tod wrote that he >>would feel hesitant to place in any simple oppositional relation, discrete borders and all, the political/ideological and the poetical forms of language. I tend to allow myself the indulgence of believing that "poetic" language is, in fact, inherently more unstable/destabilizing because it foregrounds that aspect of language that kristeva has termed "semiotic" and is more polysemous. Understood. One can however speak of trend sin language. My views are more influenced by Paul Ricoeur than by Kristeva or the Lacanians. Like Ricoeur, I view the poetic narrative (the rhetorical, the poetical, et al.) as a transitional form between description and prescription. It is the prescriptive that we identify with politics, whether in its application to parties and causes or in its broader cultural sense. Further, poetry, unlike politics even in its broadest sense, encourages one to see oneself as another. (By seeing oneself as another, I do not mean the merely emblematic and self-congratulatory forms of public empathy that politics encourages toward the "oppressed" or "marginalized.") Ricoeur argues that to see oneself as another is related to seeing another as oneself. To see another as oneself may be to transcend oneself. Here is one of the aspects of what I referred to as "the poetical"; this is what makes poetical narrative larger than politics. Politics pulls inward. It stress what is not-self. (Narrowly again, Henry Adams said American politics is the art of organizing hatred.) Poetic narrative pulls outward toward real, rather than merely prescriptive, empathy. Anyway, some thoughts. I'm also fond of the Orpheus Sonnets and have never found a suitable English translation. Perhaps David Young's (who also does a superb Duino Elegies translation) may be top on my list. Best to all, Eric Yost Pennsylvania ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 14:55:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adam Morey Subject: Re: don't deport this woman, in re raymond bianchi In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit agreed. also, included in the original post a reference to this woman being like rosa parks, thats offensive horseshit, its sad to see things get turned into a playground where people's emotions are messed with. sure immigration laws need to change but not through the actions of an identity theiving illegal immigrant. > Alex: > > We had to endure questions like "is your wife going to work as a > prostitute > in the US" because she is from Brazil so don't tell me about horrifying > stories. I paid the normal fees and worked without a lawyer for the > immigration of my wife and I was without funds at the time. > > I guess that if a law is inconvienent just ignore It? > > Which laws should we ignore? > > How do we determine which ones to ignore? > > One of the facts purposely left out of all this hand wringing is that this > person stole another person's Social Security number and the woman whose > number she stole was on radio here in Chicago and her number was used by > many people to get credit cards, loans and jobs her life was destroyed > what > right does this "immigrant" have to do that? > > Things are not black and white they are grey especially about immigration. > I > would love to see a more humane system of immigration but stealing > identities and violating laws is not a road to justice > > Ray > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > Behalf Of Alexander Dickow > Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 11:41 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: don't deport this woman, in re raymond bianchi > > Raymond, this woman may not have been able to *afford*, as you apparently > were (eventually, at least), the EXORBITANT costs of immigration > procedures > -- and that's without the legal counsel, which has become almost necessary > to avoid serious complications in many instances (this formulation amounts > to euphemism). I speak from experience: my wife is French. I feel > immensely > grateful for the privilege I have (it's terribly sad to say, but it may > have > far too much to do with being a white man married to a Western European > woman: I could tell you horrifying stories...). > In short, and with all due respect, I find your opinion somewhat > indelicately expressed. Do you presume to know this woman's story? I grant > you, a degree of skepticism may be in order: these kinds of tales get spun > one way (100% martyr, victim of evil > injustice) as often, perhaps, as they get spun in the other (100% > martyr-free, good-for-nothing illegal immigrant lawbreaker). > In addition, you write this: "Why should this woman get special treatment > but those of us who follow the law have to sacrifice?" This sounds a bit > too > much like a translation for "I had to suffer, so everyone else should > too." > Two wrongs apparently make a right? > Or am I misunderstanding you? > Permit me, then, to err on the side of charity, and express my personal > solidarity with this woman: > DOWN WITH THE US IMMIGRATION MACHINE. > It is an engine for all kinds of injustices, especially now: it was built > for those injustices from the beginning. > Alex > > > Raymond Bianchi wrote: > "This woman entered the USA illegally after she was > deported and this is > why she is being sought. > > I am frankly tired of this kind of thing. When I > married my wife who is > a Brazilian we had to live apart for 10 months in > order for her to > enter the US legally we could not see each other and > she had to stay in > Brazil. > > Why should this woman get special treatment but those > of us who follow > the law have to sacrifice? I am not anti-immigrant my > wife, mother, > father are all immigrants but legal ones if you want > open borders then > pass a law to open the borders until then these are > the laws we have in > the US." > > "Ce dont le poete souffre le plus dans ses rapports avec le monde, c'est > du > manque de justice _interne_. La vitre-cloaque de Caliban derriere laquelle > les yeux tout-puissants et sensibles d'Ariel s'irritent." > Rene Char, _Partage Formel_, fragment II > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 15:03:22 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: *VIP: Musical Acts Needed for Boog City Sonic Youth Show* Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable hi all, We're doing another one of our classic album live shows, this time on Tues. Sept. 12, at 9:00 p.m., at Mo Pitkin=B9s House of Satisfaction (34 Ave. A, bet. 2nd & 3rd sts., NYC, www.mopitkins.com). For the band=B9s 25th anniversary, the album is Sonic Youth=B9s Daydream Nation. We still have two available slots: ----------- Sonic Youth, Daydream Nation 9) Candle 4:58 10) Rain King 4:39 11) Kissability 3:08 12) Trilogy=20 a) The Wonder 4:15 ----------- If you are a musical act who would like to take part, or know one, please contact me ASAP. THANKS! david --=20 David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 15:09:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Bredie Subject: Matvei Yankelevich and Jordan Davis @ McNally Robinson Books NYC, this Wednesday, August 23rd, 7pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear All, Say it ain't so. Summer's come and gone, virtually, and with it our stint at McNally Robinson. But let it not be said that we didn't go out with a bang [tell possum, a bang not a whimper--though don't compare us to Mussolini]. This Wednesday, we feature two of our fair city's favorite poetic sons, Matvei Yankelevich and Jordan Davis. It's going to be a real blowout, so don't miss it. MATVEI YANKELEVICH is a volunteer editor at Ugly Duckling Presse. He translates from Russian (Daniil Kharms, Alexander Vvedensky, Vladimir Mayakovsky, and others). His long poem, "The Present Work," is becoming available in chapbook form thanks to Palm Press. He is the co-translator of "OBERIU: An Anthology of Russian Absurdism" just out this summer from Northwestern University Press. His translations of the works of Daniil Kharms are forthcoming in 2007 from Ardis/Overlook. JORDAN DAVIS is the host of The Million Poems Show, a live poetry talk show. In April, he hosted the first Flarf Festival at the Medicine Show Theater. With Chris Edgar, he edits the literary journal *The Hat*, and along with Sarah Manguso, edited the anthology *Free Radicals: American Poets before Their First Books*. He has written about poetry for Vanitas, the Village Voice and Fence's ConstantCritic.com site, and his poems are forthcoming in Volt and the Boston Review. His second collection of poems will be published later this year. See you all there, N http://vacationhouse.blogspot.com http://www.mcnallyrobinsonnyc.com/ Also--if you haven't marked your calendars for the AMAZING DISGRACE Hurricane Katrina Benefit concert/reading, do so now--Saturday 26 August at 7pm. You'll get the full details in a day. much love. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 12:49:00 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Audrey Berry Subject: Re: MFA vs MA In-Reply-To: <20060820090445.97842.qmail@web54615.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear AG, What are your goals? I have a MA from Brown in Creative Writing/Poetry. The next year they changed the designation to an MFA. Strange eh? It just goes to show you how close the 2 are. The program I was in is a 2 year intensive workout that focuses on your creative process. The writing seminars push you to try new forms, it rattles your patterns, and makes/helps you define/articulate your poetics, perspective and purpose. Brown U. has small sections of fiction, playwriting, and poetry. I saw one of my fellows get crushed under the scutiny, another go on to a PHD another to NYC...I believe a MA has specific language requirements, and may require other things too. My language requirement was fulfilled by taking a lit course in the lang dept. I think the distinction between a MFA and an MA is the MFA is more art/creative oriented, and the MA is more objective, scholarly oriented. I would suggest that you see where the writers that you admire are teaching. Brown has Michael Harper, Keith Waldrop, C.D. Wright, Mei Mei Berssenburge was there for a semester.. Charles Bernstein (!) came for a visit and spoke with us. Also, I would investigate the financial aid possibilites at the schools you are considering. I was able to teach and was paid very well. Let me know if I can help you with any other questions. peace, Audrey Berry --- AG Jorgensen wrote: > Once had a friend ask me: Why get something as > arbitary as an MFA? What are your thoughts? I am > making this decision at the moment and would > appreciate your thoughts - nails, wires, egos and > all? > My background is in English, lots of experience in > film and cultural anthropology. I am a writer, > however, and do, or should I say, but do think > myself > better suited to environment of rigerous > intellectual > debate (chose not to use discourse) - for what I can > learn, the acrobatics of exchange, and then I think > I've got stuff to contribute, share. > > AGJ > > --- > "Our best security, our only security, is in the > world of ideas, and I sense a slight foreboding," he > said.-- Justice Anthony Kennedy > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 13:25:37 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Audrey Berry Subject: Re: American landscape is there openness In-Reply-To: <20060818082512.18861.qmail@web54606.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear AG, Let me know where on the landscape you spot this openness, for I am looking for it myself. It seems that it is easy for all to talk about form, but it is messy business to talk about content; even riskier to venture into spirit. Artists can discuss form, and recognize when the top of their head comes off with content..spirit/vocation is soul work..is the generative procreative foodstuff. --- AG Jorgensen wrote: > Where in the American landscape is there openness. > Not > supposed openness, but open poetry and, regardless > of > whatever bright lights, lights kept on for those > seeking ways out of whatever darkness. Poetry, as we > know, is a vocation. That cusp on which poets are > ready to be Whitman-esque! > > I am a poet, damn it. > > AGJ > > --- > "Our best security, our only security, is in the > world of ideas, and I sense a slight foreboding," he > said.-- Justice Anthony Kennedy > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 22:19:42 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Roger Day Subject: Re: politics and poetry In-Reply-To: <44E75DD1.4090601@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline replace "politics" with "religion" in the below paragraphs - what happens then? R. On 8/19/06, Eric Yost wrote: > Michael Edgerton wrote: "I certainly don't think anything > escapes the political--fantasmatic, ideological, etc.--in > the broadest sense . . . " > > > Perhaps one could turn this around and suggest that nothing > escapes the poetical? The problem with exclusively political > poetry, it seems, is that poetry is larger than politics. > > Politics is a party uniform, a code, a stricture. Politics > is permission to disregard people who do not share one's > politics. Politics tells who to hate, who to love, and what > to expect. > > Poetry, on the other hand, starts with a good line, a hint, > the sound of the world. The only party uniform of the poem > is the poem. > > Poetry pulls away from politics and vice versa. The most > successful political poems, in my opinion, are created in > moments of equilibrium between these opposing dynamics. > > Best to all, > Eric Yost > Pennsylvania > -- http://www.badstep.net/ http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ "From the waist downwards, Bloodnok was tattooed with a pair of false legs... facing the wrong way." ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 17:33:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Megan Burns Subject: A Party for all Greater New Orleanians In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit FWD this to all Greater New Orleans People! * * * * The event is FREE ADMISSION * * * * We're throwing a PARTY and you are invited! THE GOLD MINE SALOON 701 Dauphine St THURSDAY AUGUST 31 2006 at 7:00PM TREMBLING PILLOW PRESS p r e s e n t s a Party celebrating the publication of its third issue of YAWP magazine "Who's Your Dada?" \ \ \ \ AN HOMAGE TO NEW ORLEANS / / / / POT LUCK === MASSAGES === HOOKAHS ART EXHIBIT curated by MICHAEL FEDOR READINGS by fabulous New Orleans POETS including ANDREI CODRESCU, JERRY WARD, NIYI OSUNDARE, RODGER KAMENETZ, BILL LAVENDER, DAVE BRINKS, PAUL CHASSE, ANDY YOUNG, GINA FERRARA, JONATHAN KLINE, JAMES NOLAN, LEE MEITZEN GRUE, MEGAN BURNS, THADDEUS CONTI & others! Please bring your own collage materials so you can take part in our Group Collage collaboration, any magazine cutouts, surface textures, fabrics for two-dimensional piece/musem board 30 x 40. ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 18:18:15 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Prejsnar Subject: c o n t a i n i n g = h a t e MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Some on this list might be interested in a recent video made of a performance installation by Allison Rentz. This performance took place in Atlanta at the Contemporary (used to be Nexus Gallery connected with Nexus Press). I saw this performance five times in one week and it was beautiful, thought provoking, allegorical, mysterious and worth seeing more times than five. The following video is large, and it is a 12 minute condensed version of what often took nearly an hour to perform. Sadly, given this venue, most of her texts (which are poems) do not survive the condensing needed to reach this length. the video is available here; http://www.allisonrentz.com/hate/hate_video.htm enjoy John Lowther ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 15:23:12 -0700 Reply-To: ishaq1824@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: we've had enough of greek myths MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT >>POV: we've had enough of greek myths ===================================== http://enjoyment.independent.co.uk/books/features/article1218972.ece We've had enough of Greek myths The poetry establishment needs black and Asian writers to invigorate a tired old scene, argues Bernardine Evaristo Fewer than one per cent of all poets published by the mainstream poetry presses in Britain are black or Asian. You'd think it was the 1940s or 1950s but no, it's the 21st century. What is going on? In 2004, I was asked to be one of the judges of Next Generation Poets, a major promotion to find the 20 most interesting poets who had published a first collection since 1994, organised by the Poetry Book Society. To my dismay this revealed that in the past ten years only a handful of poets of colour had broken through into print. This was in marked contrast to the 1970s and 1980s when, in a climate of pioneering social activism, many poets with roots in the Caribbean, such as John Agard, Grace Nicols, Jean "Binta" Breeze, E A Markham and Linton Kwesi Johnson were first published, often by small, independent presses. When the prestigious Next Generation Poets list was finally announced, only one black poet made it: Patience Agbabi. The Arts Council quickly responded to lobbying and commissioned a report, "Free Verse", which has just been published. Produced by Spread the Word Literature Development Agency, the report shows that all the editors of major presses are white and male. This might not be a huge surprise in our "feminism is so yesterday" society, but most fiction editors are also white, and this has not stopped them successfully publishing fiction which draws on many cultures. When poetry editors were questioned about their selection criteria for publishing poets, they unanimously declared it was based on quality, irrespective of race or gender. Ah, "quality" - as if it exists outside the context of history, culture, literary traditions and values, all ingredients which constitute personal taste. As poets of colour are not being published, the message is received loud and clear: they're not good enough. In the past that was said about black people who wanted to be footballers, actors, novelists, golfers, judges, pilots and politicians. Many poetry editors fiercely guard their independence. Elitism is not a dirty word in the poetry world, it's a badge of pride. No one in the arts wants to be told what to produce, yet if the status quo goes unchallenged, nothing changes. I can hear the foot- stamping already. No! You can't make me! But it's about time those cast-iron doors were opened so that the poetry industry is transformed into one which is more inclusive and representative. (Oh, how dreadfully PC of me.) The published poetry scene actually needs an injection of alternative histories, cultures and stories. Haven't we had enough of the same old same old: my childhood memories; my mildly dysfunctional parents; my repressed grandparents; Greek myths; my last lover; my new lover; my love of nature; more Greek myths; my holidays in foreign lands. Moniza Alvi, one of Britain's most established poets, told me: "Poetry that reflects a changing Britain is still badly represented in the mainstream. We are deprived of black and Asian voices who would bring fresh air to British poetry. I do believe this is beginning to change. The space now given to poetry in translation in the Poetry Society's journal Poetry Review is a welcome indication of this." One of the major features of the "Free Verse" report is the predominance of performance poetry as a popular outlet for poets of colour. The most high-profile poets are those who know how to work a live audience. Yet it has reached the stage when "Black Poetry" has become synonymous with performance poetry which, although it has its own production and literary values, doesn't always have the texture, depth and nuance to withstand scrutiny on the page. While performance poetry continues to flourish, as it should, it is the written legacy which will form the future canon and eventually survive a poet's own life. In 2005, I was one of the judges of the National Poetry Competition, run by the Poetry Society and sponsored by The Independent on Sunday. As I sifted through thousands of poems, I noted that almost none of them seemed to draw inspiration from black or Asian cultures. This could mean that such poets are not submitting their work; that the climate of exclusion has led to a certain defeatism. If poets don't see themselves reflected in the culture around them, then they think the culture is not for them. Yet the solution is not to opt out, but to be tenacious and to keep engaging. The competition, judged anonymously, is genuinely open to everyone. The enterprising poet and editor Nii Parkes set up his own poetry imprint, mouthmark, a year ago, in keeping with the traditions of the black, women's, gay and socialist presses of the 1970s which were formed for the very same reason - a culture of exclusion. Just recently one of his poets, Jacob Sam La Rose, was made the Poetry Book Society's pamphlet choice for his first chapbook Communion. A vindicated Parkes states: "When you start beating major publishers to awards, they can't dismiss your editorial standards or the quality of the writers you publish." But while setting up alternative publishers is a welcome necessity, it shouldn't let the industry off the hook. The talented young poet Daljit Nagra is only the third poet of colour to be deemed worthy of publication by the venerable Faber and Faber in its 75-year history. (Hallelujah!) His first collection, Look We Have Coming to Dover, is published in February 2007. Nagra chose the well-trodden career path for poets pre-publication which is to submit to competitions and magazines. He found that "Magazines and competitions seems mostly to be run by the white establishment so that little cultural variety is ever fully appreciated. At that same time new black and Asian poets currently lack support to enable them to develop their skills on the page." To this end Spread the Word will soon launch an important two-year programme to develop more poets to publication. Called "The Complete Works", it will offer mentoring, workshops and seminars to poets who are at the stage where they can produce a publishable collection within the next few years. Then they'll go knocking, and let's hope the editors will lower the drawbridge, slide back the lock on those medieval doors and begin a two-way conversation with Britain's 21st century multicultural demographic. The Free Verse Report is available online at www.spreadtheword.org.uk Entries are invited for the National Poetry Competition 2006. The first prize is £5,000, second £1,000 and third £500. There are 50 commendations of £50. The judges are John Burnside, Lee Harwood and Alice Oswald. Visit www.poetrysociety.org.uk or, to request an entry form by post, send a stamped addressed envelope to: Competition Organiser, 22 Betterton Street (IOS), London, WC2H 9BX. -- Stay Strong -"I testified/My mama cried/Black people died/When the other man lied" -- chuck d "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as) \ "We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit to a process of humiliation." --patrick o'neil \ "...we have the responsibility to make no deal with the oppressor" --harry belafonte \ "...in time, we will look back to this age with incredulity and amazement -- and victories like Hamas in Israel will be the *best* of our memories." -- mumia abu jamal -- "what state? what union?" "...these people generate wars in Asia and Africa,...These are the people who, in the last century, caused several devastating wars. In one world war alone, they killed over 60 million people.... In the near future, Allah willing, we will put you to trial in courts established by the peoples...."-- mahmoud ahmadinejad \ http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a047braithwaite.php http://cleveland.indymedia.org/uploads/2006/07/olivet___h.a.t.s_in_the_square___loud_ruffa1b.mp3 \ http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7255.php \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date \ http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/en_fins__clichy-sous_bois_amixquiet-_lordpatch_the_giver__.mp3 \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ \ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 16:43:50 -0700 Reply-To: Michael Tod Edgerton Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Tod Edgerton Subject: Re: politics and poetry In-Reply-To: <44E8AF87.903@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I don't know the Ricoeur. Someone just suggested the book I'm guessing you're referencing (Self As Other, or something like that). I'll have to take a look. You wrote: "Poetic narrative pulls outward toward real, rather than merely prescriptive, empathy." Would this only be true of narrative writing, or would that be reading too literally? But then how are you using the term "narrative"? What then of the (even "post-Language new") lyric? Best, Tod Michael Tod Edgerton Poet-in-Residence, Spring 2006 Stonehill College __________________ Peter Kaplan Memorial Fellow, 2004 - 2006 Program in Literary Arts Brown University "There's the mute probability of a reciprocal lack of understanding" - Mei-mei Berssenbrugge ----- Original Message ---- From: Eric Yost To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 2:52:55 PM Subject: Re: politics and poetry Tod wrote that he >>would feel hesitant to place in any simple oppositional relation, discrete borders and all, the political/ideological and the poetical forms of language. I tend to allow myself the indulgence of believing that "poetic" language is, in fact, inherently more unstable/destabilizing because it foregrounds that aspect of language that kristeva has termed "semiotic" and is more polysemous. Understood. One can however speak of trend sin language. My views are more influenced by Paul Ricoeur than by Kristeva or the Lacanians. Like Ricoeur, I view the poetic narrative (the rhetorical, the poetical, et al.) as a transitional form between description and prescription. It is the prescriptive that we identify with politics, whether in its application to parties and causes or in its broader cultural sense. Further, poetry, unlike politics even in its broadest sense, encourages one to see oneself as another. (By seeing oneself as another, I do not mean the merely emblematic and self-congratulatory forms of public empathy that politics encourages toward the "oppressed" or "marginalized.") Ricoeur argues that to see oneself as another is related to seeing another as oneself. To see another as oneself may be to transcend oneself. Here is one of the aspects of what I referred to as "the poetical"; this is what makes poetical narrative larger than politics. Politics pulls inward. It stress what is not-self. (Narrowly again, Henry Adams said American politics is the art of organizing hatred.) Poetic narrative pulls outward toward real, rather than merely prescriptive, empathy. Anyway, some thoughts. I'm also fond of the Orpheus Sonnets and have never found a suitable English translation. Perhaps David Young's (who also does a superb Duino Elegies translation) may be top on my list. Best to all, Eric Yost Pennsylvania ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 20:09:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Simon DeDeo Subject: absent magazine : CALL FOR SUBMISSION MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed dear UBP -- we're now open for submissions -- see below. please consider sending us along your work; we're looking both for poetry and prose, the latter being handled by friend jo guldi, a historian and activist at berkeley. yours, simon * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * absent a magazine of poetics, culture and policy solicits its first issue, slated for 1 December 2006 http://absentmag.org/ * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * we are seeking innovative, tradition-defying work in multiple genres: poetry, microfiction, and essays on topics poetical, cultural and political. work of uncategorized form is also of interest -- please query. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * PLEASE -- read our guidelines for information on how to submit http://absentmag.org/guidelines.html * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * our board : simon dedeo (poetry) works in chicago, where he edits the blog-journal rhubarb is susan : elisa gabbert (poetry) lives in boston where she aids ploughshares : joanna guldi (essays) is a historian and political activist in san francisco : additional board members T . B . A . ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 20:03:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: sue walker Subject: Re: absent magazine : CALL FOR SUBMISSION In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit May we submit via e-mail? Sue Walker On Aug 20, 2006, at 7:09 PM, Simon DeDeo wrote: > dear UBP -- > > we're now open for submissions -- see below. please consider > sending us along your work; we're looking both for poetry and > prose, the latter being handled by friend jo guldi, a historian and > activist at berkeley. > > yours, > > simon > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > > absent > > a magazine of poetics, culture and policy > > solicits its first issue, slated for 1 December 2006 > > http://absentmag.org/ > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > > we are seeking innovative, tradition-defying work in multiple genres: > poetry, microfiction, and essays on topics poetical, cultural and > political. work of uncategorized form is also of interest -- please > query. > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > > PLEASE -- read our guidelines for information on how to submit > > http://absentmag.org/guidelines.html > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > > our board : simon dedeo (poetry) works in chicago, where he edits the > blog-journal rhubarb is susan : elisa gabbert (poetry) lives in boston > where she aids ploughshares : joanna guldi (essays) is a historian and > political activist in san francisco : additional board members T . > B . A . ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 23:42:40 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andy Gricevich Subject: Re: politics and poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The claim that poetry and politics are essentially opposed is a sigh of resignation that wants to make itself universal. In a recent workshop on "Poetry and the News" (given at Woodland Pattern in Milwaukee), Kerri Sonnenberg put some emphasis on the value of "vulnerability" for poetry that concerns itself with politics. The explicit suggestion was that a political poem is more likely to appeal to/reach a reader if the poet doesn't seem to already know the answers to her questions (and, therefore, if the poem raises questions-- this said with the caveat that a totally open indecisiveness that anyone can feel comfortable with is NOT what's being recommended). There are a number of appealing things about this notion and the ways it can be expanded. For one thing, "vulnerability," leaving oneself open to error and to multiple possible solutions (and to more interesting problems than the ones we're handed--and, because of all this, to attack), seems to me to be an essential ethical concept at this time, when we've suffered through almost five years of a relentless emphasis on "security." Support for the all-out "war on terror" has been (especially since 9/11) based largely on an insistence on the right to a total safety; do I need to point out that this safety is factually impossible? That nothing whatsoever can ensure an absolute safety on any scale? In the face of this, the demand for invulnerability amounts to a sociopathic paranoia. This is as true on the interpersonal scale as it is on the global. Letting vulnerability be is one way of removing oneself from power relations whose tendency is to reproduce themselves (indefinetely deferring their own impossible satisfaction), and whose consequences are brutal. Recently, as part of an ongoing investigation of her book "The Fatalist," I watched a Kelly Writers' House talk given by Lyn Hejinian (archived on the PennSound site), in which she discusses the "open text" explicitly in terms of the contrary desire for closure, again in reference to 9/11. She identifies the need to close the narrative begun by the events of that day as one of the major political crises of our day. Too often the idea of "openness" in poetry is oversimplified (made vague and broad) and caricatured, mostly by people who want to take a swipe at "LangPo," and can do so by not examining the actual work of those writers, but instead taking one or two sentences from an essay written in the late '70's and riffing on that. In her talk, Hejinian proposes one of many specific kinds and functions of openness (the "rejection of closure" for crucial political reasons) in poetic writing. Openness and vulnerability. Poetry is a comparatively safe place to practice these. Even a prescriptive political poetry (isn't this an unlikely term? who will have their politics prescribed by a poem? "no-one listens to poetry") can allow its prescriptions to include their own cracks, uncertainties, provisionalities, tactical transiences, the new questions and problems raised by those very solutions offered as prescriptions. Vulnerability means maintaining a space for an active, thinking listening in the face of the insistent beat of rectitude that can only be heard and absorbed. ("no/ one listens to poetry") --------------------------------- Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 09:39:19 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Recent Nomadics Blog posts Comments: cc: BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, Lucifer Poetics Group , Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Recent Nomadics Blog posts you can read at: http://pjoris.blogspot.com Wounds to the Wind Vergangenheits=FCberw=E4ltigung Adonis on the War in Lebanon UK Terror Plot Pyrenean Walks Inside the Houses in Lebanon Apologies for crossposting. Enjoy the lull in the war. Which lull? Pierre =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism,since it is the merger of state and corporate power." =97 Benito Mussolini =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D Pierre Joris 244 Elm Street Albany NY 12202 home: 518 442-4071 cell: 518 225 7123 office: 518 442 40 85 Paris: 01 43 54 95 13 French cell: 06 75 43 57 10 email: joris@albany.edu http://pierrejoris.com Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 02:16:31 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: mirror Comments: To: WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.WVU.EDU Comments: cc: WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.WVU.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ha - better than getting hit with a tomato or a cumcumber for that mattter how easy it is i discovered tonight to alter even myths when she/the poet stated that "when orpheus looked back ..." he turned into stone" ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 04:36:36 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Audrey Berry Subject: Re: politics and poetry In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear All, esp Roger and Michael, I wonder what you think happens then..certainly poetry is larger than A religion, but poetry is a form of seeking, is TRUTH too dangerous a word? Not a definitive form of God, but the discovering of God. Saying that religion is a party uniform, a code, etc. is one view and certainly a view that unfortunately exists; it can also be a discipline (not everyone is a fundamentalist). Only extreme fringes "tell us who to hate, who to love"; most aim toward love, (is that too, a dangerous word?) The best political poems and the best religious poems are written in the middle of being consumed---not from the outside--not for ego--not for effect. Audrey --- Roger Day wrote: > replace "politics" with "religion" in the below > paragraphs - what happens then? > > R. > > On 8/19/06, Eric Yost > wrote: > > Michael Edgerton wrote: "I certainly don't think > anything > > escapes the political--fantasmatic, ideological, > etc.--in > > the broadest sense . . . " > > > > > > Perhaps one could turn this around and suggest > that nothing > > escapes the poetical? The problem with exclusively > political > > poetry, it seems, is that poetry is larger than > politics. > > > > Politics is a party uniform, a code, a stricture. > Politics > > is permission to disregard people who do not share > one's > > politics. Politics tells who to hate, who to love, > and what > > to expect. > > > > Poetry, on the other hand, starts with a good > line, a hint, > > the sound of the world. The only party uniform of > the poem > > is the poem. > > > > Poetry pulls away from politics and vice versa. > The most > > successful political poems, in my opinion, are > created in > > moments of equilibrium between these opposing > dynamics. > > > > Best to all, > > Eric Yost > > Pennsylvania > > > > > -- > http://www.badstep.net/ > http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ > "From the waist downwards, Bloodnok was tattooed > with a pair of false > legs... facing the wrong way." > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 07:46:55 -0400 Reply-To: jamie@rockheals.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jamie Gaughran-Perez Subject: the latest from Rock Heals MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Week 73 Rings the Edge and Looks Inward ( http://www.rockheals.com ) - a poem from CAConrad's new book Deviant Propulsion (soft skull press) - a short video on Korean culinary perfection from Katherine Gorman - a zombie haiku from Mark Wallace We keep it short and sweet (and weekly) so come on by and sample. And submit your own work of whatever variety to this (back channel) address or (( submit at rockheals dot com )). And peruse the archives to see recent poetry, art, and all kinds of goodness from from Jessica Smith, Ken Rumble, Heather Rounds, W.B. Keckler, Jason Wilkinson, Bob Massey and many others. -- Jamie Gaughran-Perez www.rockheals.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 08:39:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: politics and poetry Comments: To: Audrey Berry In-Reply-To: <20060821113636.73208.qmail@web53309.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 21 Aug 2006 at 4:36, Audrey Berry wrote: > ... certainly poetry > is larger than A religion, but poetry is a form of > seeking, is TRUTH too dangerous a word? Not a > definitive form of God, but the discovering of God. > Saying that religion is a party uniform, a code, etc. > is one view and certainly a view that unfortunately > exists; it can also be a discipline (not everyone is a > fundamentalist). Only extreme fringes "tell us who to > hate, who to love"; most aim toward love, (is that > too, a dangerous word?) The best political poems and > the best religious poems are written in the middle of > being consumed---not from the outside--not for > ego--not for effect.< In my view this is completely misguided. Poems are art; they're artifacts of human invention, entirely subjective, as prone to error politically or religiously or in any other way as any other human attempt to communicate -- even the best of them, because we know from history that what's in the category "the best of them" changes depending on who's doing the categorizing. Not only is the production of poems subjective, the judging of poems is subjective, too. There's even profound disagreement about what constitutes "a poem". Poetry is NOT "a form of seeking truth" nor an "aim toward love"; poetry is a rhetorical means that can be used to seek truth, aim toward love, or lie to you or create hate. There is nothing inherently truth-seeking or love-aiming about poetry, any more than there is anything inherently brain-poking or gut-tearing about a tree limb. Oh, sure, you can USE it for a lot of different purposes, but how you use it determines what we call it. So we can have "religious poetry" as well as "good religious poetry" and "bad religious poetry" and (mostly) "mediocre religious poetry". Poetry is, in fact, almost always a banal or cliched notion dressed up for presentation in the voice and style of the poet -- and it is the voice and style of the poet that makes it poetry, NOT "what it says" or even "what it means". What makes it poetry is HOW it is said, and not WHAT is said. Poetry is not philosophy, not even close. The entire point of poetry is the form, not the content; poetry is all form -- content is merely whatever commonplace is conventional in a given poet's social circle, or the social circle by which he or she aspires to be accepted. One may certainly seek love or truth, but poetry is not a means to truth or love. Poetry is only one means among many of presenting what one believes to be the truth, or a truth -- or a lie, or a partial truth, or a joke, or whatever. Poetry is a means, not an end, and as a means, it is neither good for every end nor worthy of being treated as an end. Treating a means as an end is the easiest way to make some other profound mistakes. Be careful. Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 06:33:55 -0700 Reply-To: rsillima@yahoo.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Silliman Subject: Silliman's Blog Comments: To: Brit Po , New Po , Wom Po , Lucifer Poetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ RECENT POSTS Remembering Carol Berge 16 links worth checking (from Nigerian poetry to Donald Hall to the work of John Tranter) Online interviews with poets on first books and much else (links to sites with over 300 interviews of poets) Depression and poetry The tender-tough poetry of CAConrad (Deviant Propulsion) When you hide the bio everything becomes a clue (on Thomas Pynchon) A volume of anonymous poetry The plastic poetry of Jessica Smith (the most ambitious book of 2006) Steve Reich at 70 and other notes Celery Flute a journal devoted to Kenneth Patchen Cinema and spirituality Travellers (sic) and Magicians Kirby Doyle A taste of Blake among the New American Poets Simon Pettet and his poems and the problems of next generation NY Schoolers Silver Standards of Justin Sirois and the 374 staples per book it requires Laugh1ng M1rrors Puk1ng: Stacy Doris reinvents the world A note on comments On turning 60 Philip K Dick & Shakespeare: The Simulacra Publishing Robert Grenier (100 Sentences / 100 Phrases) http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 09:45:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: politics and poetry In-Reply-To: <20060821113636.73208.qmail@web53309.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I believe Wilhelm Reich (not that he is the last word) wrote that art is made not from within the box or outside of the box but in getting out of the box. Of course there are all kinds of poetry in all countries, each w/ its own greatness. On 8/21/06 7:36 AM, "Audrey Berry" wrote: > Dear All, esp Roger and Michael, > I wonder what you think happens then..certainly poetry > is larger than A religion, but poetry is a form of > seeking, is TRUTH too dangerous a word? Not a > definitive form of God, but the discovering of God. > Saying that religion is a party uniform, a code, etc. > is one view and certainly a view that unfortunately > exists; it can also be a discipline (not everyone is a > fundamentalist). Only extreme fringes "tell us who to > hate, who to love"; most aim toward love, (is that > too, a dangerous word?) The best political poems and > the best religious poems are written in the middle of > being consumed---not from the outside--not for > ego--not for effect. > Audrey > > --- Roger Day wrote: > >> replace "politics" with "religion" in the below >> paragraphs - what happens then? >> >> R. >> >> On 8/19/06, Eric Yost >> wrote: >>> Michael Edgerton wrote: "I certainly don't think >> anything >>> escapes the political--fantasmatic, ideological, >> etc.--in >>> the broadest sense . . . " >>> >>> >>> Perhaps one could turn this around and suggest >> that nothing >>> escapes the poetical? The problem with exclusively >> political >>> poetry, it seems, is that poetry is larger than >> politics. >>> >>> Politics is a party uniform, a code, a stricture. >> Politics >>> is permission to disregard people who do not share >> one's >>> politics. Politics tells who to hate, who to love, >> and what >>> to expect. >>> >>> Poetry, on the other hand, starts with a good >> line, a hint, >>> the sound of the world. The only party uniform of >> the poem >>> is the poem. >>> >>> Poetry pulls away from politics and vice versa. >> The most >>> successful political poems, in my opinion, are >> created in >>> moments of equilibrium between these opposing >> dynamics. >>> >>> Best to all, >>> Eric Yost >>> Pennsylvania >>> >> >> >> -- >> http://www.badstep.net/ >> http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ >> "From the waist downwards, Bloodnok was tattooed >> with a pair of false >> legs... facing the wrong way." >> > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 06:49:02 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: politics and poetry In-Reply-To: <44E97157.14354.302B525@marcus.designerglass.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > On 21 Aug 2006 at 4:36, Audrey Berry wrote: > > ... certainly poetry > > is larger than A religion, but poetry is a form of > > seeking, is TRUTH too dangerous a word? Not a > > definitive form of God, but the discovering of God. > > Saying that religion is a party uniform, a code, etc. > > is one view and certainly a view that unfortunately > > exists; it can also be a discipline (not everyone is a > > fundamentalist). Only extreme fringes "tell us who to > > hate, who to love"; most aim toward love, (is that > > too, a dangerous word?) The best political poems and > > the best religious poems are written in the middle of > > being consumed---not from the outside--not for > > ego--not for effect.< > > In my view this is completely misguided. Poems are art; they're > artifacts of human invention, entirely subjective, as prone to error > politically or religiously or in any other way as any other human > attempt to communicate -- even the best of them, because we know from > history that what's in the category "the best of them" changes > depending on who's doing the categorizing. Not only is the production > of poems subjective, the judging of poems is subjective, too. There's > even profound disagreement about what constitutes "a poem". > > Poetry is NOT "a form of seeking truth" nor an "aim toward love"; > poetry is a rhetorical means that can be used to seek truth, aim > toward love, or lie to you or create hate. There is nothing > inherently truth-seeking or love-aiming about poetry, any more than > there is anything inherently brain-poking or gut-tearing about a tree > limb. Oh, sure, you can USE it for a lot of different purposes, but > how you use it determines what we call it. So we can have "religious > poetry" as well as "good religious poetry" and "bad religious poetry" > and (mostly) "mediocre religious poetry". > > Poetry is, in fact, almost always a banal or cliched notion dressed > up for presentation in the voice and style of the poet -- and it is > the voice and style of the poet that makes it poetry, NOT "what it > says" or even "what it means". What makes it poetry is HOW it is > said, and not WHAT is said. Poetry is not philosophy, not even close. > The entire point of poetry is the form, not the content; poetry is > all form -- content is merely whatever commonplace is conventional in > a given poet's social circle, or the social circle by which he or she > aspires to be accepted. > > One may certainly seek love or truth, but poetry is not a means to > truth or love. Poetry is only one means among many of presenting what > one believes to be the truth, or a truth -- or a lie, or a partial > truth, or a joke, or whatever. Poetry is a means, not an end, and as > a means, it is neither good for every end nor worthy of being treated > as an end. Treating a means as an end is the easiest way to make some > other profound mistakes. Be careful. > > Marcus That's a really fine post about poetry. I agree with much of it, but not with the notion that "What makes it poetry is HOW it is said, and not WHAT is said." Although I agree that it's "almost always a banal or cliched notion dressed up for presentation in the voice and style of the poet." Poetry is permitted a degree of ambiguity that is not permitted or perhaps appropriate, normally, in other forms of writing. Just exactly what it means is often impossible to say, though it may suggest many meanings. In this sense, poetry is not simply all style or form, but a way of being, at times, profoundly vague. "HOW it is said" is of course very important to being able to work amid such multi-valenced language toward something other than word salad, but poems can proceed in many directions at once, and this is not simply a matter of how it is said, but of what is said. Sort of like the difference between saying x=3 and P(x)=3 where P(x) is a polynomial of degree n, so that it will have n solutions, although some might be imaginary or 'complex'. But not really like that, because the solutions of a polynomial can normally all be ascertained, whereas what a poem means is, to some extent, a matter of what you make of it, and this is a different type of meaning than is normally appropriate in other forms of writing. ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 10:00:58 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: politics and poetry In-Reply-To: <44E97157.14354.302B525@marcus.designerglass.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit yes, poetry is an art form first and last, just as music is. yet it can give solace, lead the way to transcendence, display decadence, revolt, disgust, fail to do anything, effect each person differently, etc. To me the LangPo group is essential bec they are part of one American vein from Whitman & Stein to Wms & Black Mtn to the Objectivists, each adding to the American voice or showing us what keeps us in the box in which we think & speak. Yet each of those poets is her/his own person, too large to fit into any category. Finally, the sound of poem is paramount in creating meaning in some poets. And maybe all these generalities are beside the point when we read and listen. The individual voice is heard, yet PoMo questions the individual voice. Discussions worth having, then giving up & just listening. Some poetry is meant to be seen, some to be heard. A friend says he reads Dickinson so he can hear her voice in his mind. On 8/21/06 8:39 AM, "Marcus Bales" wrote: > On 21 Aug 2006 at 4:36, Audrey Berry wrote: >> ... certainly poetry >> is larger than A religion, but poetry is a form of >> seeking, is TRUTH too dangerous a word? Not a >> definitive form of God, but the discovering of God. >> Saying that religion is a party uniform, a code, etc. >> is one view and certainly a view that unfortunately >> exists; it can also be a discipline (not everyone is a >> fundamentalist). Only extreme fringes "tell us who to >> hate, who to love"; most aim toward love, (is that >> too, a dangerous word?) The best political poems and >> the best religious poems are written in the middle of >> being consumed---not from the outside--not for >> ego--not for effect.< > > In my view this is completely misguided. Poems are art; they're > artifacts of human invention, entirely subjective, as prone to error > politically or religiously or in any other way as any other human > attempt to communicate -- even the best of them, because we know from > history that what's in the category "the best of them" changes > depending on who's doing the categorizing. Not only is the production > of poems subjective, the judging of poems is subjective, too. There's > even profound disagreement about what constitutes "a poem". > > Poetry is NOT "a form of seeking truth" nor an "aim toward love"; > poetry is a rhetorical means that can be used to seek truth, aim > toward love, or lie to you or create hate. There is nothing > inherently truth-seeking or love-aiming about poetry, any more than > there is anything inherently brain-poking or gut-tearing about a tree > limb. Oh, sure, you can USE it for a lot of different purposes, but > how you use it determines what we call it. So we can have "religious > poetry" as well as "good religious poetry" and "bad religious poetry" > and (mostly) "mediocre religious poetry". > > Poetry is, in fact, almost always a banal or cliched notion dressed > up for presentation in the voice and style of the poet -- and it is > the voice and style of the poet that makes it poetry, NOT "what it > says" or even "what it means". What makes it poetry is HOW it is > said, and not WHAT is said. Poetry is not philosophy, not even close. > The entire point of poetry is the form, not the content; poetry is > all form -- content is merely whatever commonplace is conventional in > a given poet's social circle, or the social circle by which he or she > aspires to be accepted. > > One may certainly seek love or truth, but poetry is not a means to > truth or love. Poetry is only one means among many of presenting what > one believes to be the truth, or a truth -- or a lie, or a partial > truth, or a joke, or whatever. Poetry is a means, not an end, and as > a means, it is neither good for every end nor worthy of being treated > as an end. Treating a means as an end is the easiest way to make some > other profound mistakes. Be careful. > > Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 08:29:35 -0700 Reply-To: Michael Tod Edgerton Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Tod Edgerton Subject: Re: politics and poetry/poetry and Truth In-Reply-To: <44E97157.14354.302B525@marcus.designerglass.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I agree with both Audrey and Marcus, to an extent, and don't see their views as opposed as Marcus seems to see them. I would agree that poetry is not automatically or inherently any particular thing. I also tend towards Marcus' very Russian Formalist view of poetry, but not to the extinct of disclaiming the existence or importance of content absolutely. Certainly the form "speaks" (like the symptom). I think ala Lacan and Badiou that truth exists and is both subjective and (formally) universal--that truth is what precipitates subjectivity over and against the otherwise docile ego, in need of its protections, etc. In this context we could perhaps reinvigorate the crusty cliche, "the truth will set you free" (though on second thought, why would we?). I'm just starting to read Badiou, really, and can't yet discuss his work with any intelligence. It seems very exciting. There's a nifty little summary of his work at the European Grad School site you could check out, though it may not make much sense if you haven't already read some of his writing, but maybe: http://www.egs.edu/faculty/badiou.html . I do think poetry is about truth, but in a way that redefines or necessitates the redefining of truth. "Badiou distinguishes four general fields of truth, or four domains of subjectivation (which in turn operate as the four generic 'conditions' of philosophy itself): politics, science, art and love." I have to read more Badiou.... And though poetry and philosophy are different, I would say that they are a lot more alike than Marcus seems to think. (Sorry if I rambled incoherently.) Best, Tod Michael Tod Edgerton Poet-in-Residence, Spring 2006 Stonehill College __________________ Peter Kaplan Memorial Fellow, 2004 - 2006 Program in Literary Arts Brown University "There's the mute probability of a reciprocal lack of understanding" - Mei-mei Berssenbrugge ----- Original Message ---- From: Marcus Bales To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 8:39:51 AM Subject: Re: politics and poetry On 21 Aug 2006 at 4:36, Audrey Berry wrote: > ... certainly poetry > is larger than A religion, but poetry is a form of > seeking, is TRUTH too dangerous a word? Not a > definitive form of God, but the discovering of God. > Saying that religion is a party uniform, a code, etc. > is one view and certainly a view that unfortunately > exists; it can also be a discipline (not everyone is a > fundamentalist). Only extreme fringes "tell us who to > hate, who to love"; most aim toward love, (is that > too, a dangerous word?) The best political poems and > the best religious poems are written in the middle of > being consumed---not from the outside--not for > ego--not for effect.< In my view this is completely misguided. Poems are art; they're artifacts of human invention, entirely subjective, as prone to error politically or religiously or in any other way as any other human attempt to communicate -- even the best of them, because we know from history that what's in the category "the best of them" changes depending on who's doing the categorizing. Not only is the production of poems subjective, the judging of poems is subjective, too. There's even profound disagreement about what constitutes "a poem". Poetry is NOT "a form of seeking truth" nor an "aim toward love"; poetry is a rhetorical means that can be used to seek truth, aim toward love, or lie to you or create hate. There is nothing inherently truth-seeking or love-aiming about poetry, any more than there is anything inherently brain-poking or gut-tearing about a tree limb. Oh, sure, you can USE it for a lot of different purposes, but how you use it determines what we call it. So we can have "religious poetry" as well as "good religious poetry" and "bad religious poetry" and (mostly) "mediocre religious poetry". Poetry is, in fact, almost always a banal or cliched notion dressed up for presentation in the voice and style of the poet -- and it is the voice and style of the poet that makes it poetry, NOT "what it says" or even "what it means". What makes it poetry is HOW it is said, and not WHAT is said. Poetry is not philosophy, not even close. The entire point of poetry is the form, not the content; poetry is all form -- content is merely whatever commonplace is conventional in a given poet's social circle, or the social circle by which he or she aspires to be accepted. One may certainly seek love or truth, but poetry is not a means to truth or love. Poetry is only one means among many of presenting what one believes to be the truth, or a truth -- or a lie, or a partial truth, or a joke, or whatever. Poetry is a means, not an end, and as a means, it is neither good for every end nor worthy of being treated as an end. Treating a means as an end is the easiest way to make some other profound mistakes. Be careful. Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 08:22:50 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabrielle Welford Subject: Re: MFA vs MA (fwd) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT i agree. and in fact by the time i'd finished my dissertation, my creative writing had gone underground quite a bit. but i did love the collaborations and appreciation with david. aye, and here i sit looking at student loan debt at this late age of mine. maybe i can plead decrepitude if i put it off long enough... :-) and, indeed, i cannot say it was a wasted time. i changed i changed. gabe On Sun, 20 Aug 2006, heidi arnold wrote: > Gabrielle, > > I appreciate that your description of your programs hints at a kind of > outsiderness -- > > --but if i required a classroom to keep my work going (and among scientists > that's a very respectable claim to make, Feynman was among those who said > this) -- but i'd quit right now if a classroom were necessary to write -- > it's too expensive and then i'd be working to pay off tuition bills instead > of writing anyway > > -h > gabrielle welford welford@hawaii.edu Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.595 / Virus Database: 378 - Release Date: 2/25/2004 wilhelm reich anarcho-syndicalism gut/heart/head/earth ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 15:10:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eric Yost Subject: Re: politics and poetry In-Reply-To: <20060821064240.82989.qmail@web36206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andy wrote: For one thing, "vulnerability," leaving oneself open to error and to multiple possible solutions (and to more interesting problems than the ones we're handed--and, because of all this, to attack), seems to me to be an essential ethical concept at this time, when we've suffered through almost five years of a relentless emphasis on "security." Support for the all-out "war on terror" has been (especially since 9/11) based largely on an insistence on the right to a total safety; do I need to point out that this safety is factually impossible? That nothing whatsoever can ensure an absolute safety on any scale? In the face of this, the demand for invulnerability amounts to a sociopathic paranoia. Substitute "security" for "invulnerability" and you have the content of one of ee cummings' _Six Nonlectures_. And it's easy to agree with much of what Andy writes. However, look at the movement in the passage above. When Andy connects poetry to politics, when he expands Sonnenberg's comments about vulnerability in political poems to politics itself, his prose immediately becomes dead certain, almost alarmist. See how the passage moves? No longer are we "vulnerable" to "possible solutions." Instead, we are facing "sociopathic paranoia." This is NOT to demean the merits of Andy's argument; rather I want to underscore how the movement toward political speech is a movement toward sure answers and certitude. The passage does not offer any vulnerability to possible justifications for the demand for security. Instead we have the certain knowledge that we are living through a social "insistence on the right to a total safety." That may or may not be. The point is the way language changes in the political--from the meditative to the rallying cry. Best to all, Eric Yost Pennsylvania ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 12:25:44 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: politics and poetry/poetry and Truth (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed "Philosophy ought only to be written as a form of poetry." ~Ludwig Wittgenstein Marjorie Perloff asserts the compliment, that Postry ought to be written only as a form of philosophy, in Wittgenstein's ladder saying it follows from the first, which it doesn't, but oh well, if you go through life expecting valid moves of logic from critics, you're going to be very disappointed. I'm bringing this up because i think there's a tendency for people to want to connect poetry to something "deeper" and casting about for that "something deep" they light naturally on philosophy because philosophy is confusing and weird and decorated with all sorts of erudition besides, and if you don't understand it but intelligent people seem to, then it must be deep, right? except that's a trap that could lead one to assert that star trek the next generation is deep. It is not, nor is philosophy. What's my point? Poetry is entertainment. That's all it's ever been. It's a way of holding the attention of an audience in order to communicate something. That's my biggest beef with language poetry and a lot of the composite sleight of hand stuff that is going on in the neo-concrete poetry/digital poetry/conceptual poetry/vispo people in the wake of the american tree. For some reason it's become acceptable in the pursuit of poetry as political statement or piece of high art to ignore it's function as entertainment and in the process completely disregard immediacy as a measure of quality. Granted, immediacy can be construed as a function of literacy, but only up to a point. Once one has moved beyond the general familiarity with a canon and a tradition that is to be expected of someone engaged in a literature, the criteria of immediacy returns and only so much obliqueness and "openness" to a text can be tolerated before one has to say that it is boring and stupid. There is a lot of boring, stupid work in the world, and I think a general disdain for a certain amount of immediacy is the result. At some point early in the twentieth century, and I think Ezra Pound is largely to be blamed for this in poetry--although it is certainly not limited to that, a contrapopular "high art" meta-aesthetic was instituted that, whatever else was going on in various movements, can be traced over the course of the development of various american arts. When I say meta-aesthetic, I'm referring to what is obvious in the work of the rank and file priests, monks, and nuns, and not the stated aims of the bishops and cardinals following from the likes of Pound, Picasso, and Schoenberg. I think that a large percentage of work that is trying to be adventurous has chosen obscurantism and obfuscation in place of immediacy as a means of concealing the work's essentially anemic semantics. It has been allowed to do so largely because to the uninitiated, work that is adventurous is often indistinguishable from work that is incomprehensible. I think this is the sort of problem that leads lesser light like Kenneth Goldsmith to say things like "The 20th century avant-garde liked to embrace boredom as a way of getting around what it considered to be the vapid "excitement" of popular culture." Nonsense. The twentieth century avant-garde is full of exciting work, not the least of which most of the output of Goldsmith's "king of boredom" Jackson Mac Low. people who think that all there is to adventurous work is to strip the work of the immediacy (the immediacy that is present in unadventurous work through it's cliche nature) are missing the boat completely. To be disoriented by a work and to have to figure out how to address it, is not to say that the work shouldn't try to compel it's viewer or reader to try to address it. That's one of the chief functions of the size of abstract expressionist paintings, to pick an oft misunderstood example. A rothko, were it the size of a postage stamp, would suck because it could easily be ignored. But rothko's enormous canvases demand attention, as do Mac Low's "twenties" poems to give an example from poetry, works i return to constantly not because they are obscure or because i expect to find something deep there, but because i still don't know quite how to describe how they make me feel. I don't know how they do it, but they draw me back and demand that I deal with them on some level. I think part of it has to do with the fact that one is forced to read aloud repeating phrases over and over again trying to get the silences timed right. But it's such a cunning trick on Mac Low's part to force the reader into that. It gives a work that might otherwise be meaningless, pretentious, and obfuscating it's own boringness, an immediacy that isn't, ironically, immediately apparent. I'm not sure what i'm talking about anymore or how it relates to the thread so I'm gonna shut up now. On Mon, 21 Aug 2006, Michael Tod Edgerton wrote: > I agree with both Audrey and Marcus, to an extent, and don't see their views > as opposed as Marcus seems to see them. I would agree that poetry is not > automatically or inherently any particular thing. I also tend towards > Marcus' very Russian Formalist view of poetry, but not to the extinct of > disclaiming the existence or importance of content absolutely. Certainly the > form "speaks" (like the symptom). I think ala Lacan and Badiou that truth > exists and is both subjective and (formally) universal--that truth is what > precipitates subjectivity over and against the otherwise docile ego, in need > of its protections, etc. In this context we could perhaps reinvigorate the > crusty cliche, "the truth will set you free" (though on second thought, why > would we?). I'm just starting to read Badiou, really, and can't yet discuss > his work with any intelligence. It seems very exciting. There's a nifty > little summary of his work at the European Grad School site you could check > out, though it > may not make much sense if you haven't already read some of his writing, but > maybe: http://www.egs.edu/faculty/badiou.html . I do think poetry is about > truth, but in a way that redefines or necessitates the redefining of truth. > "Badiou distinguishes four general fields of truth, or four domains of > subjectivation (which in turn operate as the four generic 'conditions' of > philosophy itself): politics, science, art and love." I have to read more > Badiou.... And though poetry and philosophy are different, I would say that > they are a lot more alike than Marcus seems to think. (Sorry if I rambled > incoherently.) > > Best, > > Tod > > Michael Tod Edgerton > Poet-in-Residence, Spring 2006 > Stonehill College > __________________ > > Peter Kaplan Memorial Fellow, 2004 - 2006 > Program in Literary Arts > Brown University > > "There's the mute probability of a reciprocal lack of understanding" > - Mei-mei Berssenbrugge > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Marcus Bales > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 8:39:51 AM > Subject: Re: politics and poetry > > On 21 Aug 2006 at 4:36, Audrey Berry wrote: >> ... certainly poetry >> is larger than A religion, but poetry is a form of >> seeking, is TRUTH too dangerous a word? Not a >> definitive form of God, but the discovering of God. >> Saying that religion is a party uniform, a code, etc. >> is one view and certainly a view that unfortunately >> exists; it can also be a discipline (not everyone is a >> fundamentalist). Only extreme fringes "tell us who to >> hate, who to love"; most aim toward love, (is that >> too, a dangerous word?) The best political poems and >> the best religious poems are written in the middle of >> being consumed---not from the outside--not for >> ego--not for effect.< > > In my view this is completely misguided. Poems are art; they're > artifacts of human invention, entirely subjective, as prone to error > politically or religiously or in any other way as any other human > attempt to communicate -- even the best of them, because we know from > history that what's in the category "the best of them" changes > depending on who's doing the categorizing. Not only is the production > of poems subjective, the judging of poems is subjective, too. There's > even profound disagreement about what constitutes "a poem". > > Poetry is NOT "a form of seeking truth" nor an "aim toward love"; > poetry is a rhetorical means that can be used to seek truth, aim > toward love, or lie to you or create hate. There is nothing > inherently truth-seeking or love-aiming about poetry, any more than > there is anything inherently brain-poking or gut-tearing about a tree > limb. Oh, sure, you can USE it for a lot of different purposes, but > how you use it determines what we call it. So we can have "religious > poetry" as well as "good religious poetry" and "bad religious poetry" > and (mostly) "mediocre religious poetry". > > Poetry is, in fact, almost always a banal or cliched notion dressed > up for presentation in the voice and style of the poet -- and it is > the voice and style of the poet that makes it poetry, NOT "what it > says" or even "what it means". What makes it poetry is HOW it is > said, and not WHAT is said. Poetry is not philosophy, not even close. > The entire point of poetry is the form, not the content; poetry is > all form -- content is merely whatever commonplace is conventional in > a given poet's social circle, or the social circle by which he or she > aspires to be accepted. > > One may certainly seek love or truth, but poetry is not a means to > truth or love. Poetry is only one means among many of presenting what > one believes to be the truth, or a truth -- or a lie, or a partial > truth, or a joke, or whatever. Poetry is a means, not an end, and as > a means, it is neither good for every end nor worthy of being treated > as an end. Treating a means as an end is the easiest way to make some > other profound mistakes. Be careful. > > Marcus > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 14:09:38 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: ON THE FLY - Review copies available. In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit If you’re interested in receiving a review copy of my forthcoming chapbook, “ON THE FLY” (Flux de Bouche), please backchannel your mailing address to me at amyhappens@yahoo.com Review copies will be mailed out next week. Thank you, Amy King http://www.amyking.org “Not many are as scrupulous as King is in steering their poems through the meanders in which feeling and observation push and pull at each other... King is a lyric poet who can pack enormous surprises into concentrated doses... these poems contain single lines so capacious you almost want to stretch out in them and spend the night.” —Barry Schwabsky “Amy King’s poems think in association, evoking a world familiar but entirely unexpectable. Next to us all this turns and spins: under the veil of hum and drum is the paradise of possibility. This is a poetry of hope for a world shrouded by nearly and almost.” —Charles Bernstein ON THE FLY Flux de Bouche Press (New York) First Edition - Chapbook 46 pages (7.50" x 7.50" - Perfect Bound) © 2006 --------------------------------- Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 15:37:35 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dodie Bellamy Subject: Writing Experiments Workshop Comments: To: ampersand@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Writing Experiments Workshop Dodie Bellamy This fall I will be leading a writing experiments workshop, which will meet 11 Monday evenings, from 7 to 10 p.m. The dates: September 25 through December 4. Cost: $350, with a $100 deposit due by September 18. Each week students will be assigned a short take-home writing experiment which they will share with the class the following week. Assignments will range from cut ups to exploring bodily sensations. Each week we will also critique longer pieces by two students. Students may bring in anything they want (up to 20 pages) for the longer critiques. Depending on the length, these longer pieces will be read aloud in class or handed out a week ahead of time. Though this class will have a prose focus, it is cross-genre, and poets are welcome. The class is limited to 9 students. Lots and lots of personal attention. It takes place in San Francisco, in my South of Market apartment, which comes complete with snacks and two cats. This is a good class for poets wanting to play around with narrative or prose writers wanting to open up their prose. It will be the last workshop I'll be doing for a while. Pink Steam, my collection of fiction, memoir, and memoiresque essays, was published in 2004 by San Francisco's Suspect Thoughts Press. My vampire novel, The Letters of Mina Harker was reprinted by University of Wisconsin Press, also in 2004. Academonia, a book of essays, is forthcoming from Krupskaya late fall. I'm the author of 3 other books and I teach creative writing at SF State and in the MFA program at Antioch Los Angeles. I've also taught at CalArts, Naropa summer session, Mills, USF, UC Santa Cruz, and the SF Art Institute. I've received the Bay Guardian Goldie Award for Literature and the Firecracker Alternative Book Award for Poetry. If you're interested, please email about work samples, etc. Or--if you know anybody who might be interested, please pass this email along to them. If you're interested do contact me promptly. Preference given to those not currently enrolled in a grad writing program. -- ****************************************** My email address has changed to: dodie@belladodie.com Please use this address in the future as my earthlink address will soon be inoperable. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 19:24:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Truscott Subject: Huisken and Mancini at Test (Toronto) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Dear Poetics List: If you're in the area, please come to a special end-of-summer edition of the Test Reading Series, featuring JESSE HUISKEN and DONATO MANCINI (bios below) Thursday, August 24, 7:30 p.m. Toronto Free Gallery (note special location) 660 Queen Street East Pay what you can ($5 recommended), all of which goes to the readers Please see the series site (www.testreading.org) for information on and recordings of past readings featuring Stephen Cain, Margaret Christakos, Brian Joseph Davis, Jay MillAr, Lisa Robertson, and Rachel Zolf. Stay tuned as Test embarks on a special two-month celebration of the number twenty-three with readings by, among others, Jason Christie (launching his new book, i-Robot), Diana Fitzgerald Bryden, and Nathalie Stephens. Please forward. Mark ************************************** JESSE HUISKEN has published poetry, fiction and drawings with the small presses BookThug, Expert Press and House Press, and under the auspices of his own imprint Wood and Coal (recently renamed Language Points). He is currently working on several sequences of paintings and text responding to found photographs, as well as a fragmentary manuscript, from which he will read at Test, called "Vacation." Toronto-born, Hamilton-raised, and Vancouver-resident DONATO MANCINI is a writer, visual artist and polymath whose individual and/or collaborative works have been exhibited in Canada, the United States, Cuba, Finland, Germany, Denmark, and Sweden. He has written extensively about music and contributed more than 600 articles to www.allclassical.com from 2001 to 2004. His poetry has been published in such magazines as Matrix, Broken Pencil, Vallum, Grain, W, Rampike, and Queen Street Quarterly. Mancini has published eight chapbooks; his first full-length book is Ligatures (New Star 2005). A sample of Donato's work can be read at . ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 20:03:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jay Dougherty Subject: Interview with Lyn Lifshin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit PoetryCircle.com is pleased to announce the publication of a new interview with poet Lyn Lifshin. http://www.poetrycircle.com/index.php/topic,1109.0.html PoetryCircle is a forum of and for advanced poets. We encourage you to sign up using your real name, the pen name by which you are widely known, or the pen name by which you would like to be widely known. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 20:27:33 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Bredie Subject: Amazing Disgrace:a Benefit for Common Ground Relief, New Orleans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Poetics-Listers, if you are in New York Saturday, please come and show your support details as follows Thanks, Nick Amazing Disgrace: a Benefit for Common Ground Relief, New Orleans Saturday, 26 August 2006 7PM-11PM Bowery Poetry Club 308 Bowery between Bleeker & Houston 6 to Bleeker; B/D to B'way/Lafayette; F/V to 2nd Ave. contact: 212.334.6414 $15 suggested donation One year after Hurricane Katrina struck the Gulf Coast, the region remains in shambles. The US government has left the citizens of Louisiana and Mississippi to fend for themselves, failing even to pass a resolution to honor the upcoming anniversary of the hurricane's landfall. The re-building effort has largely fallen on the shoulders of devoted non-profit relief organizations, notably Common Ground Relief which is active in New Orleans and across the Gulf Coast. While many of these relief organizations are approaching the pre-determined end of their ministries, Common Ground Relief has resolved to continue working in the Gulf Coast until the region has fully recovered. To honor and assist with their efforts, the New York Poetry community is coming together on AUGUST 26 at THE BOWERY POETRY CLUB. The event will feature poets and activists, including PROFESSOR ARTURO, ED SANDERS,JOHN GIORNO, SAPPHIRE, MICHAEL FORD, MARCELLA DURAND, NATHANIEL A.SIEGEL, JUSTIN LACOUR, FRANK SHERLOCK, HARRIS SCHIFF, HAL SIROWITZ, AMY OUZOONIAN, and TASHA ROBBINS, along with New Orleans style jazz,and blues from singer DOROTHY GOODMAN and the band CAVE CANEM. There will be Cajun food for sale, as well as art from Gulf Coast artists; all proceeds being directed to Common Ground Relief. The event will be an opportunity for New York to display its continuing solidarity with the city of New Orleans and the Gulf Coast. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 02:25:11 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Jones Subject: Re: politics and poetry/poetry and Truth (fwd) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline If poetry isn't high art than what is? Let the`fools kill each other. On 8/21/06, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > "Philosophy ought only to be written as a form of poetry." > ~Ludwig Wittgenstein > > Marjorie Perloff asserts the compliment, that Postry ought to be written only > as a form of philosophy, in Wittgenstein's ladder saying it follows from the > first, which it doesn't, but oh well, if you go through life expecting valid > moves of logic from critics, you're going to be very disappointed. > > I'm bringing this up because i think there's a tendency for people to want to > connect poetry to something "deeper" and casting about for that "something > deep" they light naturally on philosophy because philosophy is confusing and > weird and decorated with all sorts of erudition besides, and if you don't > understand it but intelligent people seem to, then it must be deep, right? > except that's a trap that could lead one to assert that star trek the next > generation is deep. It is not, nor is philosophy. > > What's my point? Poetry is entertainment. That's all it's ever been. It's a way > of holding the attention of an audience in order to communicate something. > That's my biggest beef with language poetry and a lot of the composite sleight > of hand stuff that is going on in the neo-concrete poetry/digital > poetry/conceptual poetry/vispo people in the wake of the american tree. For > some reason it's become acceptable in the pursuit of poetry as political > statement or piece of high art to ignore it's function as entertainment and in > the process completely disregard immediacy as a measure of quality. Granted, > immediacy can be construed as a function of literacy, but only up to a point. > > Once one has moved beyond the general familiarity with a canon and a tradition > that is to be expected of someone engaged in a literature, the criteria of > immediacy returns and only so much obliqueness and "openness" to a text can be > tolerated before one has to say that it is boring and stupid. There is a lot of > boring, stupid work in the world, and I think a general disdain for a certain > amount of immediacy is the result. At some point early in the twentieth > century, and I think Ezra Pound is largely to be blamed for this in > poetry--although it is certainly not limited to that, a contrapopular "high > art" meta-aesthetic was instituted that, whatever else was going on in various > movements, can be traced over the course of the development of various american > arts. When I say meta-aesthetic, I'm referring to what is obvious in the work > of the rank and file priests, monks, and nuns, and not the stated aims of the > bishops and cardinals following from the likes of Pound, Picasso, and > Schoenberg. > > I think that a large percentage of work that is trying to be adventurous has > chosen obscurantism and obfuscation in place of immediacy as a means of > concealing the work's essentially anemic semantics. It has been allowed to do > so largely because to the uninitiated, work that is adventurous is often > indistinguishable from work that is incomprehensible. I think this is the sort > of problem that leads lesser light like Kenneth Goldsmith to say things like > "The 20th century avant-garde liked to embrace boredom as a way of getting > around what it considered to be the vapid "excitement" of popular culture." > Nonsense. The twentieth century avant-garde is full of exciting work, not the > least of which most of the output of Goldsmith's "king of boredom" Jackson Mac > Low. people who think that all there is to adventurous work is to strip the > work of the immediacy (the immediacy that is present in unadventurous work > through it's cliche nature) are missing the boat completely. To be disoriented > by a work and to have to figure out how to address it, is not to say that the > work shouldn't try to compel it's viewer or reader to try to address it. That's > one of the chief functions of the size of abstract expressionist paintings, to > pick an oft misunderstood example. A rothko, were it the size of a postage > stamp, would suck because it could easily be ignored. But rothko's enormous > canvases demand attention, as do Mac Low's "twenties" poems to give an example > from poetry, works i return to constantly not because they are obscure or > because i expect to find something deep there, but because i still don't know > quite how to describe how they make me feel. I don't know how they do it, but > they draw me back and demand that I deal with them on some level. I think part > of it has to do with the fact that one is forced to read aloud repeating > phrases over and over again trying to get the silences timed right. But it's > such a cunning trick on Mac Low's part to force the reader into that. It gives > a work that might otherwise be meaningless, pretentious, and obfuscating it's > own boringness, an immediacy that isn't, ironically, immediately apparent. > > I'm not sure what i'm talking about anymore or how it relates to the thread so > I'm gonna shut up now. > > On Mon, 21 Aug 2006, Michael Tod Edgerton wrote: > > > I agree with both Audrey and Marcus, to an extent, and don't see their views > > as opposed as Marcus seems to see them. I would agree that poetry is not > > automatically or inherently any particular thing. I also tend towards > > Marcus' very Russian Formalist view of poetry, but not to the extinct of > > disclaiming the existence or importance of content absolutely. Certainly the > > form "speaks" (like the symptom). I think ala Lacan and Badiou that truth > > exists and is both subjective and (formally) universal--that truth is what > > precipitates subjectivity over and against the otherwise docile ego, in need > > of its protections, etc. In this context we could perhaps reinvigorate the > > crusty cliche, "the truth will set you free" (though on second thought, why > > would we?). I'm just starting to read Badiou, really, and can't yet discuss > > his work with any intelligence. It seems very exciting. There's a nifty > > little summary of his work at the European Grad School site you could check > > out, though it > > may not make much sense if you haven't already read some of his writing, but > > maybe: http://www.egs.edu/faculty/badiou.html . I do think poetry is about > > truth, but in a way that redefines or necessitates the redefining of truth. > > "Badiou distinguishes four general fields of truth, or four domains of > > subjectivation (which in turn operate as the four generic 'conditions' of > > philosophy itself): politics, science, art and love." I have to read more > > Badiou.... And though poetry and philosophy are different, I would say that > > they are a lot more alike than Marcus seems to think. (Sorry if I rambled > > incoherently.) > > > > Best, > > > > Tod > > > > Michael Tod Edgerton > > Poet-in-Residence, Spring 2006 > > Stonehill College > > __________________ > > > > Peter Kaplan Memorial Fellow, 2004 - 2006 > > Program in Literary Arts > > Brown University > > > > "There's the mute probability of a reciprocal lack of understanding" > > - Mei-mei Berssenbrugge > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: Marcus Bales > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 8:39:51 AM > > Subject: Re: politics and poetry > > > > On 21 Aug 2006 at 4:36, Audrey Berry wrote: > >> ... certainly poetry > >> is larger than A religion, but poetry is a form of > >> seeking, is TRUTH too dangerous a word? Not a > >> definitive form of God, but the discovering of God. > >> Saying that religion is a party uniform, a code, etc. > >> is one view and certainly a view that unfortunately > >> exists; it can also be a discipline (not everyone is a > >> fundamentalist). Only extreme fringes "tell us who to > >> hate, who to love"; most aim toward love, (is that > >> too, a dangerous word?) The best political poems and > >> the best religious poems are written in the middle of > >> being consumed---not from the outside--not for > >> ego--not for effect.< > > > > In my view this is completely misguided. Poems are art; they're > > artifacts of human invention, entirely subjective, as prone to error > > politically or religiously or in any other way as any other human > > attempt to communicate -- even the best of them, because we know from > > history that what's in the category "the best of them" changes > > depending on who's doing the categorizing. Not only is the production > > of poems subjective, the judging of poems is subjective, too. There's > > even profound disagreement about what constitutes "a poem". > > > > Poetry is NOT "a form of seeking truth" nor an "aim toward love"; > > poetry is a rhetorical means that can be used to seek truth, aim > > toward love, or lie to you or create hate. There is nothing > > inherently truth-seeking or love-aiming about poetry, any more than > > there is anything inherently brain-poking or gut-tearing about a tree > > limb. Oh, sure, you can USE it for a lot of different purposes, but > > how you use it determines what we call it. So we can have "religious > > poetry" as well as "good religious poetry" and "bad religious poetry" > > and (mostly) "mediocre religious poetry". > > > > Poetry is, in fact, almost always a banal or cliched notion dressed > > up for presentation in the voice and style of the poet -- and it is > > the voice and style of the poet that makes it poetry, NOT "what it > > says" or even "what it means". What makes it poetry is HOW it is > > said, and not WHAT is said. Poetry is not philosophy, not even close. > > The entire point of poetry is the form, not the content; poetry is > > all form -- content is merely whatever commonplace is conventional in > > a given poet's social circle, or the social circle by which he or she > > aspires to be accepted. > > > > One may certainly seek love or truth, but poetry is not a means to > > truth or love. Poetry is only one means among many of presenting what > > one believes to be the truth, or a truth -- or a lie, or a partial > > truth, or a joke, or whatever. Poetry is a means, not an end, and as > > a means, it is neither good for every end nor worthy of being treated > > as an end. Treating a means as an end is the easiest way to make some > > other profound mistakes. Be careful. > > > > Marcus > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 17:42:25 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: politics and poetry/poetry and Truth (fwd) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed there is no "high" art at all would be my point. just hoity toity snobs who, because of their money and backgrounds have power, and ergo think they are better than other people, and so therefore their cultural effluvia is "higher" than other cultures simply by virtue of it's having been made by one of them. On the other end of the spectrum arthur danto says there isn't even art anymore. it's all just doss. i disagree. but i do think it's dumb to become so elitist and insular that no one beyond a small group of people who've read the same books you've read can understand what you're doing, let alone WANT to understand what you're doing. And that's where think of any thing as "high" or "low" art gets you. Is comic book writer Alan Moore's woork vastly qualitatively superior to poet Robert Pinsky's0? you're goddamn right it is. And I'd rather spend an afternoon with a moore book than a pinsky unless somebody was paying me to read the guy. On Tue, 22 Aug 2006, Andrew Jones wrote: > If poetry isn't high art than what is? Let the`fools kill each other. > > On 8/21/06, Jason Quackenbush wrote: >> "Philosophy ought only to be written as a form of poetry." >> ~Ludwig Wittgenstein >> >> Marjorie Perloff asserts the compliment, that Postry ought to be written >> only >> as a form of philosophy, in Wittgenstein's ladder saying it follows from the >> first, which it doesn't, but oh well, if you go through life expecting valid >> moves of logic from critics, you're going to be very disappointed. >> >> I'm bringing this up because i think there's a tendency for people to want >> to >> connect poetry to something "deeper" and casting about for that "something >> deep" they light naturally on philosophy because philosophy is confusing and >> weird and decorated with all sorts of erudition besides, and if you don't >> understand it but intelligent people seem to, then it must be deep, right? >> except that's a trap that could lead one to assert that star trek the next >> generation is deep. It is not, nor is philosophy. >> >> What's my point? Poetry is entertainment. That's all it's ever been. It's a >> way >> of holding the attention of an audience in order to communicate something. >> That's my biggest beef with language poetry and a lot of the composite >> sleight >> of hand stuff that is going on in the neo-concrete poetry/digital >> poetry/conceptual poetry/vispo people in the wake of the american tree. For >> some reason it's become acceptable in the pursuit of poetry as political >> statement or piece of high art to ignore it's function as entertainment and >> in >> the process completely disregard immediacy as a measure of quality. Granted, >> immediacy can be construed as a function of literacy, but only up to a >> point. >> >> Once one has moved beyond the general familiarity with a canon and a >> tradition >> that is to be expected of someone engaged in a literature, the criteria of >> immediacy returns and only so much obliqueness and "openness" to a text can >> be >> tolerated before one has to say that it is boring and stupid. There is a lot >> of >> boring, stupid work in the world, and I think a general disdain for a >> certain >> amount of immediacy is the result. At some point early in the twentieth >> century, and I think Ezra Pound is largely to be blamed for this in >> poetry--although it is certainly not limited to that, a contrapopular "high >> art" meta-aesthetic was instituted that, whatever else was going on in >> various >> movements, can be traced over the course of the development of various >> american >> arts. When I say meta-aesthetic, I'm referring to what is obvious in the >> work >> of the rank and file priests, monks, and nuns, and not the stated aims of >> the >> bishops and cardinals following from the likes of Pound, Picasso, and >> Schoenberg. >> >> I think that a large percentage of work that is trying to be adventurous has >> chosen obscurantism and obfuscation in place of immediacy as a means of >> concealing the work's essentially anemic semantics. It has been allowed to >> do >> so largely because to the uninitiated, work that is adventurous is often >> indistinguishable from work that is incomprehensible. I think this is the >> sort >> of problem that leads lesser light like Kenneth Goldsmith to say things like >> "The 20th century avant-garde liked to embrace boredom as a way of getting >> around what it considered to be the vapid "excitement" of popular culture." >> Nonsense. The twentieth century avant-garde is full of exciting work, not >> the >> least of which most of the output of Goldsmith's "king of boredom" Jackson >> Mac >> Low. people who think that all there is to adventurous work is to strip the >> work of the immediacy (the immediacy that is present in unadventurous work >> through it's cliche nature) are missing the boat completely. To be >> disoriented >> by a work and to have to figure out how to address it, is not to say that >> the >> work shouldn't try to compel it's viewer or reader to try to address it. >> That's >> one of the chief functions of the size of abstract expressionist paintings, >> to >> pick an oft misunderstood example. A rothko, were it the size of a postage >> stamp, would suck because it could easily be ignored. But rothko's enormous >> canvases demand attention, as do Mac Low's "twenties" poems to give an >> example >> from poetry, works i return to constantly not because they are obscure or >> because i expect to find something deep there, but because i still don't >> know >> quite how to describe how they make me feel. I don't know how they do it, >> but >> they draw me back and demand that I deal with them on some level. I think >> part >> of it has to do with the fact that one is forced to read aloud repeating >> phrases over and over again trying to get the silences timed right. But it's >> such a cunning trick on Mac Low's part to force the reader into that. It >> gives >> a work that might otherwise be meaningless, pretentious, and obfuscating >> it's >> own boringness, an immediacy that isn't, ironically, immediately apparent. >> >> I'm not sure what i'm talking about anymore or how it relates to the thread >> so >> I'm gonna shut up now. >> >> On Mon, 21 Aug 2006, Michael Tod Edgerton wrote: >> >> > I agree with both Audrey and Marcus, to an extent, and don't see their >> views >> > as opposed as Marcus seems to see them. I would agree that poetry is not >> > automatically or inherently any particular thing. I also tend towards >> > Marcus' very Russian Formalist view of poetry, but not to the extinct of >> > disclaiming the existence or importance of content absolutely. Certainly >> the >> > form "speaks" (like the symptom). I think ala Lacan and Badiou that truth >> > exists and is both subjective and (formally) universal--that truth is what >> > precipitates subjectivity over and against the otherwise docile ego, in >> need >> > of its protections, etc. In this context we could perhaps reinvigorate the >> > crusty cliche, "the truth will set you free" (though on second thought, >> why >> > would we?). I'm just starting to read Badiou, really, and can't yet >> discuss >> > his work with any intelligence. It seems very exciting. There's a nifty >> > little summary of his work at the European Grad School site you could >> check >> > out, though it >> > may not make much sense if you haven't already read some of his writing, >> but >> > maybe: http://www.egs.edu/faculty/badiou.html . I do think poetry is about >> > truth, but in a way that redefines or necessitates the redefining of >> truth. >> > "Badiou distinguishes four general fields of truth, or four domains of >> > subjectivation (which in turn operate as the four generic 'conditions' of >> > philosophy itself): politics, science, art and love." I have to read more >> > Badiou.... And though poetry and philosophy are different, I would say >> that >> > they are a lot more alike than Marcus seems to think. (Sorry if I rambled >> > incoherently.) >> > >> > Best, >> > >> > Tod >> > >> > Michael Tod Edgerton >> > Poet-in-Residence, Spring 2006 >> > Stonehill College >> > __________________ >> > >> > Peter Kaplan Memorial Fellow, 2004 - 2006 >> > Program in Literary Arts >> > Brown University >> > >> > "There's the mute probability of a reciprocal lack of understanding" >> > - Mei-mei Berssenbrugge >> > >> > ----- Original Message ---- >> > From: Marcus Bales >> > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> > Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 8:39:51 AM >> > Subject: Re: politics and poetry >> > >> > On 21 Aug 2006 at 4:36, Audrey Berry wrote: >> >> ... certainly poetry >> >> is larger than A religion, but poetry is a form of >> >> seeking, is TRUTH too dangerous a word? Not a >> >> definitive form of God, but the discovering of God. >> >> Saying that religion is a party uniform, a code, etc. >> >> is one view and certainly a view that unfortunately >> >> exists; it can also be a discipline (not everyone is a >> >> fundamentalist). Only extreme fringes "tell us who to >> >> hate, who to love"; most aim toward love, (is that >> >> too, a dangerous word?) The best political poems and >> >> the best religious poems are written in the middle of >> >> being consumed---not from the outside--not for >> >> ego--not for effect.< >> > >> > In my view this is completely misguided. Poems are art; they're >> > artifacts of human invention, entirely subjective, as prone to error >> > politically or religiously or in any other way as any other human >> > attempt to communicate -- even the best of them, because we know from >> > history that what's in the category "the best of them" changes >> > depending on who's doing the categorizing. Not only is the production >> > of poems subjective, the judging of poems is subjective, too. There's >> > even profound disagreement about what constitutes "a poem". >> > >> > Poetry is NOT "a form of seeking truth" nor an "aim toward love"; >> > poetry is a rhetorical means that can be used to seek truth, aim >> > toward love, or lie to you or create hate. There is nothing >> > inherently truth-seeking or love-aiming about poetry, any more than >> > there is anything inherently brain-poking or gut-tearing about a tree >> > limb. Oh, sure, you can USE it for a lot of different purposes, but >> > how you use it determines what we call it. So we can have "religious >> > poetry" as well as "good religious poetry" and "bad religious poetry" >> > and (mostly) "mediocre religious poetry". >> > >> > Poetry is, in fact, almost always a banal or cliched notion dressed >> > up for presentation in the voice and style of the poet -- and it is >> > the voice and style of the poet that makes it poetry, NOT "what it >> > says" or even "what it means". What makes it poetry is HOW it is >> > said, and not WHAT is said. Poetry is not philosophy, not even close. >> > The entire point of poetry is the form, not the content; poetry is >> > all form -- content is merely whatever commonplace is conventional in >> > a given poet's social circle, or the social circle by which he or she >> > aspires to be accepted. >> > >> > One may certainly seek love or truth, but poetry is not a means to >> > truth or love. Poetry is only one means among many of presenting what >> > one believes to be the truth, or a truth -- or a lie, or a partial >> > truth, or a joke, or whatever. Poetry is a means, not an end, and as >> > a means, it is neither good for every end nor worthy of being treated >> > as an end. Treating a means as an end is the easiest way to make some >> > other profound mistakes. Be careful. >> > >> > Marcus >> > >> > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 22:40:07 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: Interview with Lyn Lifshin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain a forum or advanced poets? Is this a self-policing definition, or does it just mean advanced in age? On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 20:03:44 +0000, Jay Dougherty wrote: > PoetryCircle.com is pleased to announce the publication of a new interview > with poet Lyn Lifshin. > > http://www.poetrycircle.com/index.php/topic,1109.0.html > > PoetryCircle is a forum of and for advanced poets. We encourage you to sign > up using your real name, the pen name by which you are widely known, or the > pen name by which you would like to be widely known. > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 23:36:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Fw: Back By Popular Demand! Lalita Java Readings, Th./8/24, 7-9 PM Comments: cc: Acousticlv@aol.com, AdeenaKarasick@cs.com, AGosfield@aol.com, alonech@acedsl.com, Altjazz@aol.com, amirib@aol.com, Amramdavid@aol.com, anansi1@earthlink.net, AnselmBerrigan@aol.com, arlenej2@verizon.net, Barrywal23@aol.com, bdlilrbt@icqmail.com, butchershoppoet@hotmail.com, CarolynMcClairPR@aol.com, CaseyCyr@aol.com, CHASEMANHATTAN1@aol.com, Djmomo17@aol.com, Dsegnini1216@aol.com, flint@artphobia.com, Gfjacq@aol.com, Hooker99@aol.com, rakien@gmail.com, jeromerothenberg@hotmail.com, Jeromesala@aol.com, JillSR@aol.com, JoeLobell@cs.com, JohnLHagen@aol.com, kather8@katherinearnoldi.com, Kevtwi@aol.com, krkubert@hotmail.com, LakiVaz@aol.com, Lisevachon@aol.com, Nuyopoman@AOL.COM, Pedevski@aol.com, pom2@pompompress.com, Rabinart@aol.com, Rcmorgan12@aol.com, reggiedw@comcast.net, RichKostelanetz@aol.com, RnRBDN@aol.com, Smutmonke@aol.com, sprygypsy@yahoo.com, SHoltje@aol.com, Sumnirv@aol.com, tcumbie@nyc.rr.com, velasquez@nyc.com, VITORICCI@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit BACK BY POPULAR DEMAND! LALITA JAVA READING This Thursday, August 24th, 7-9 PM 210 E. 3rd Street, Betw. B & C) Featured Readers + Open (1st 5 readers to sign-up) Steve Dalachinsky, Yuko Otono, Tom Savage, Jim Feasat, Bonnie Finberg, and David Hatchett ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 00:22:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Fw: Re: cd release gig Comments: To: wryting-l@listserv.wvu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 2 interviews w/ steve dalachinsky listen here: www.eadonsplace.com www.Live365.com (Eadon's Place) http://stream.wrir.net:8001/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 23:57:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andy Gricevich Subject: Re: Politics and Poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Eric, You're quite right to point out the drift toward bald assertion here, and in political discourse at large (it's also there in conversation, and in posts to this listserv, that have nothing to do with politics). I'm glad you picked up on it; I thought about it myself just before sending the message. My discomfort is with the implication, in your response, that political discourse has to go this way. I think it should be viewed as an unsolved problem rather than a matter of essence. Here are a few thoughts in reply: Vulnerability clearly takes practice, and I certainly don't claim to be a virtuoso. Right from the start, it's difficult to figure out how to do it, partly because there's no support for it. Since there are threats of all kinds to our self-esteem, the things we value, our personal safety and our very lives, leaving oneself open can seem like a foolish strategy. And it could be one. I'd never want to deny the validity of the desire for safety and security, or even for closure (never landing wears on you after awhile). The most pertinent unanswered question, it seems to me, is: how can a vulnerability be cultivated that doesn't dispense with ethical committment, or compromise it seriously? The end of my post is so assertive, so insistent on its own truth, because to be softer, more pliant with regard to the situation I describe seems to me like a betrayal of, not just my ethical principles, but of the people whose lives are destroyed by the stance I'm objecting to. (Admittedly, I'm usually more cautious about the language of certainty,for the very reason that that rhetorical posture shuts people down, making it unlikely that they'll reflect on the consequences of the attitude I'm trying to call into question). I would like to distinguish, though, between my language there, which does fail to do what I'm generally hoping for, and what I'm criticizing, which has as its very goal a total closure, and which wants its statements backed up militarily. In any case, as I said in the earlier post, "vulnerability" can't mean a wishy-washy "I'm Ok, you're ok" attitude, or else it isn't an ethical principle at all, but a way of avoiding the problem that's just as much of a dead end as the insistence on winning, on setting the balance straight, on achieving closure. I'm sure you noticed that the earlier sentences in my post were longer and more complex, whereas the most explicitly political ones were comparatively condensed and simple--as if vulnerability (and poetry?) called for meandering, for conditionalizing, clarifying, cautious attempts to avoid misunderstanding, while ethical commitment called for incisive insistence, a language that doesn't invite debate. On the one hand, this has to do with my own experience; writing political poetry that's good both aesthetically and politically is hard, and figuring out what I think about the war on terror is not hard. On the other hand, I do think it points to an inherent problem. It's likely that solutions (and more interesting problems) are to be found in relation to particular instances. In a poem, this might mean that there are points at which certainty is very much in evidence--and maybe the vulnerability would lie in ways of making sure that that certainty doesn't dominate the poem--that things are opened up that aren't closed. This would be a particular case of a relationship between specificity/determinateness and openness in poetry generally. In a political argument--let's say it's about 9/11 and what happened after--no matter how understanding I am (genuinely, or merely rhetorically), there will always be someone who feels that my opposition to the "war on terror" amounts to a dismissal of the lives of the people who died in the WTC, unless I go beyond allowing my commitment to be questioned and problematized and just chuck it. Both the previous two paragraphs, though, still describe things as if vulnerability and commitment (or standing up for yourself, or for what you care about) were opposites, and that's something I'd like to consider as a problem to be worked on, a separate question from that of when to be flexible and when to be rigid. Vulnerability as a way of being, rather than a tactical move, perhaps... and what would that mean?... all the best, Andy P.S. I'll have to read that Cummings. Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 15:10:08 -0400 From: Eric Yost Subject: Re: politics and poetry Andy wrote: For one thing, "vulnerability," leaving oneself open to error and to multiple possible solutions (and to more interesting problems than the ones we're handed--and, because of all this, to attack), seems to me to be an essential ethical concept at this time, when we've suffered through almost five years of a relentless emphasis on "security." Support for the all-out "war on terror" has been (especially since 9/11) based largely on an insistence on the right to a total safety; do I need to point out that this safety is factually impossible? That nothing whatsoever can ensure an absolute safety on any scale? In the face of this, the demand for invulnerability amounts to a sociopathic paranoia. Substitute "security" for "invulnerability" and you have the content of one of ee cummings' _Six Nonlectures_. And it's easy to agree with much of what Andy writes. However, look at the movement in the passage above. When Andy connects poetry to politics, when he expands Sonnenberg's comments about vulnerability in political poems to politics itself, his prose immediately becomes dead certain, almost alarmist. See how the passage moves? No longer are we "vulnerable" to "possible solutions." Instead, we are facing "sociopathic paranoia." This is NOT to demean the merits of Andy's argument; rather I want to underscore how the movement toward political speech is a movement toward sure answers and certitude. The passage does not offer any vulnerability to possible justifications for the demand for security. Instead we have the certain knowledge that we are living through a social "insistence on the right to a total safety." That may or may not be. The point is the way language changes in the political--from the meditative to the rallying cry. Best to all, Eric Yost Pennsylvania --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 06:04:42 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Beckett Subject: New at e-x-c-h-a-n-g-e-v-a-l-u-e-s... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit my interview with CAConrad. Go to: http://willtoexchange.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 07:57:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Coffey Subject: Re: Interview with Lyn Lifshin In-Reply-To: <55ac1u$7q688v@smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On 8/21/06, Jay Dougherty wrote: >or the > pen name by which you would like to be widely known. > Bic Sharpie, please. -- http://hyperhypo.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 06:17:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adam Fieled Subject: Jeff Crouch, Diana Magallon on PFS Post MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit New on PFS Post (http://www.artrecess.blogspot.com): --two "psycho-minimalist" gems from PFS Post co-editor, poet, fashionista, & Mexican resident Diana Magallon. --three neo-psychedelic digital images from Texas poet/artist Jeff Crouch, & a mini-essay from me about them. new work from Andrew Lundwall, Anny Ballardini, Tammy Armstrong, many more. New work from Adam Fieled at http://www.adamfieled.blogspot.com. Drop me a line, buy my CD!!! --------------------------------- All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 06:46:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AG Jorgensen Subject: Experimental Writing Programs - Are there any? In-Reply-To: <20060822065730.14978.qmail@web36204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Been refamiliarizing myself with Black Mountain - the exchange between artists, a kind of collaborative, teachers and students as peers. Is there anything like this currently in the US? Anything being developed among the many excellent programs for writers and artists out there. AGJ --- "Our best security, our only security, is in the world of ideas, and I sense a slight foreboding," he said.-- Justice Anthony Kennedy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 06:47:15 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: aaron tieger Subject: CARVE 7 now available MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I'm pleased to announce the release of CARVE 7. This issue contains work by Ruth Lepson, Kate Greenstreet, Michael Carr, Tyler Carter, John Coletti, Matvei Yankelevich, and an interview between Stacy Szymaszek and Erica Kaufman, as well as cover art by Mark Yakich. A hefty 44 pages, it's the longest CARVE yet, but still only $5! Paypal should be operational at the website (www.carvepoems.org) within the next day or so. This is preferable, but you can also send a check or well-concealed cash to 1964 Slaterville Rd., Ithaca NY 14850. MAKE CHECKS PAYABLE TO AARON TIEGER. As always, back issues are available. To wit: #1, Summer 2003: Gregory Ford, William Corbett, Joseph Torra, Dorothea Lasky, J. Kates, Sara Veglahn, Eric Baus/Noah Eli Gordon/Nick Moudry/Travis Nichols, Michael Carr, Aaron Belz, Beth Woodcome, Mark Lamoureux, Brenda Iijima, Anna Moschovakis, Aaron Tieger, Christina Strong, Kent Johnson. Cover by Brenda Iijima. 28 pp. SOLD OUT!!! #2, Winter 2004: kari edwards, John Bradley, Matvei Yankelevich, W. B. Keckler, Andrew Felsinger, Ed Barrett, Alan De Niro, Joel Sloman, Gregory Ford, Ron Starr, Jim Dunn, Mike County, Amanda Cook. Cover by Eric McDade. 34 pp. #3, Summer 2004: Shin Yu Pai, Jess Mynes, Catherine A. Meng, Christopher Rizzo, Sean Cole, Lori Lubeski. Cover by Emily Belz. 40 pp. #4, January 2005: John Mulrooney, Mairead Byrne, Aaron Kunin, Jane Sprague, Gina Myers, Anthony Robinson, Dan Bouchard interviewed by Michael Carr. Cover by Emily Belz. 36 pp. #5, April 2005: Stacy Szymaszek, Jordan Davis, Guillermo Juan Parra, Cheryl Clark, William Corbett on Richard Caddel, Richard Caddel. Cover by Aaron Tieger. 32 pp. #6, July 2005: Bill Marsh, Clark Coolidge, Dorothea Lasky, Emma Barnes, Yuri Hospodar, Mark Lamoureux, CARVE Editions sampler. Cover by Wendy Hyman. 40 pp. As well as CARVE Editions chapbooks: ZING by Christopher Rizzo and BIRDS FOR EXAMPLE by Jess Mynes. Also $5 each. Please allow up to 2 weeks for delivery, as I am in the process of moving. Aaron Tieger aarontieger.blogspot.com carvepoems.org soonproductions.org "Make a sudden, destructive unpredictable action; incorporate." (Brian Eno) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 09:14:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Experimental Writing Programs - Are there any? In-Reply-To: <20060822134618.19021.qmail@web54604.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" nothing as in-process as black mt, but there are programs that favor "experimental" writing: SUNY-buffalo (phd not mfa) naropa institute uc-san diego ? brown university california college of art new college of california upenn (phd) temple u (ma not mfa) At 6:46 AM -0700 8/22/06, AG Jorgensen wrote: >Been refamiliarizing myself with Black Mountain - the >exchange between artists, a kind of collaborative, >teachers and students as peers. Is there anything like >this currently in the US? Anything being developed >among the many excellent programs for writers and >artists out there. > >AGJ > >--- >"Our best security, our only security, is in the world of ideas, and >I sense a slight foreboding," he said.-- Justice Anthony Kennedy > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 07:19:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alexander Dickow Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 20 Aug 2006 to 21 Aug 2006 (#2006-234) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Jason, Agreed that a lot of poets these days don't seem to be willing to think about, let's say, audiences. But "immediacy"? Works we call "entertaining" tend to be all but immediate, because they rely on "commonplaces," formulas, conventions, eg Hollywood, Spielberg.... Conversely, many "avant-guard" poets of the last century have claimed "immediacy" as a central principle of their work. Cf for instance Tristan Tzara -- deemed (incorrectly for the most part, in my opinion) "incomprehensible" sometimes by the poet himself. Also, you talk about "entertainment", and then proceed to describe one of the effects people attribute to "high art": Fascination. I wonder if the terms of the problem aren't posed imperfectly here. That said, yes, the High Art and Poetry of Genius that I enjoy happens to Entertain me also. Yours, Alex Jason Quackenbush wrote: Marjorie Perloff asserts the compliment, that Postry ought to be written only as a form of philosophy, in Wittgenstein's ladder saying it follows from the first, which it doesn't, but oh well, if you go through life expecting valid moves of logic from critics, you're going to be very disappointed. I'm bringing this up because i think there's a tendency for people to want to connect poetry to something "deeper" and casting about for that "something deep" they light naturally on philosophy because philosophy is confusing and weird and decorated with all sorts of erudition besides, and if you don't understand it but intelligent people seem to, then it must be deep, right? except that's a trap that could lead one to assert that star trek the next generation is deep. It is not, nor is philosophy. What's my point? Poetry is entertainment. That's all it's ever been. It's a way of holding the attention of an audience in order to communicate something. That's my biggest beef with language poetry and a lot of the composite sleight of hand stuff that is going on in the neo-concrete poetry/digital poetry/conceptual poetry/vispo people in the wake of the american tree. For some reason it's become acceptable in the pursuit of poetry as political statement or piece of high art to ignore it's function as entertainment and in the process completely disregard immediacy as a measure of quality. Granted, immediacy can be construed as a function of literacy, but only up to a point. Once one has moved beyond the general familiarity with a canon and a tradition that is to be expected of someone engaged in a literature, the criteria of immediacy returns and only so much obliqueness and "openness" to a text can be tolerated before one has to say that it is boring and stupid. There is a lot of boring, stupid work in the world, and I think a general disdain for a certain amount of immediacy is the result. At some point early in the twentieth century, and I think Ezra Pound is largely to be blamed for this in poetry--although it is certainly not limited to that, a contrapopular "high art" meta-aesthetic was instituted that, whatever else was going on in various movements, can be traced over the course of the development of various american arts. When I say meta-aesthetic, I'm referring to what is obvious in the work of the rank and file priests, monks, and nuns, and not the stated aims of the bishops and cardinals following from the likes of Pound, Picasso, and Schoenberg. I think that a large percentage of work that is trying to be adventurous has chosen obscurantism and obfuscation in place of immediacy as a means of concealing the work's essentially anemic semantics. It has been allowed to do so largely because to the uninitiated, work that is adventurous is often indistinguishable from work that is incomprehensible. I think this is the sort of problem that leads lesser light like Kenneth Goldsmith to say things like "The 20th century avant-garde liked to embrace boredom as a way of getting around what it considered to be the vapid "excitement" of popular culture." Nonsense. The twentieth century avant-garde is full of exciting work, not the least of which most of the output of Goldsmith's "king of boredom" Jackson Mac Low. people who think that all there is to adventurous work is to strip the work of the immediacy (the immediacy that is present in unadventurous work through it's cliche nature) are missing the boat completely. To be disoriented by a work and to have to figure out how to address it, is not to say that the work shouldn't try to compel it's viewer or reader to try to address it. That's one of the chief functions of the size of abstract expressionist paintings, to pick an oft misunderstood example. A rothko, were it the size of a postage stamp, would suck because it could easily be ignored. But rothko's enormous canvases demand attention, as do Mac Low's "twenties" poems to give an example from poetry, works i return to constantly not because they are obscure or because i expect to find something deep there, but because i still don't know quite how to describe how they make me feel. I don't know how they do it, but they draw me back and demand that I deal with them on some level. I think part of it has to do with the fact that one is forced to read aloud repeating phrases over and over again trying to get the silences timed right. But it's such a cunning trick on Mac Low's part to force the reader into that. It gives a work that might otherwise be meaningless, pretentious, and obfuscating it's own boringness, an immediacy that isn't, ironically, immediately apparent. I'm not sure what i'm talking about anymore or how it relates to the thread so I'm gonna shut up now. "Ce dont le poete souffre le plus dans ses rapports avec le monde, c'est du manque de justice _interne_. La vitre-cloaque de Caliban derriere laquelle les yeux tout-puissants et sensibles d'Ariel s'irritent." Rene Char, _Partage Formel_, fragment II ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 10:47:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Kelleher Subject: JUST BUFFALO E-NEWSLETTER 8-22-06 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable FALL WORKSHOPS All workshops take place in Just Buffalo's Workshop/Conference Room At the historic Market Arcade, 617 Main St., First Floor -- right across fr= om Shea's The Market Arcade is climate-controlled and has a security guard on duty at= all times. To get here: Take the train to the Theatre stop and walk, or park and enter on Washingto= n Street. Free parking on Washington Street evenings and weekends. Two-dollar parking in fenced, guarded, M & T lot on Washington. Visit our website for detailed descriptions, instructor bios, and to regist= er online. The Art of Story A Workshop for Fiction and Drama Writers of All Levels Instructor: Gary Earl Ross 4 Wednesday Evenings, September 27, October 4, 11, and 18, 7-9 p.m. In the Just Buffalo Workshop Room Market Arcade Building, 617 Main St., First Floor. =24100, =2480 for members =22There Are 3 Sides To Every Story....=22 A Creative Nonfiction Writing Workshop Instructor: Alexis De Veaux Two Saturday Sessions: October 14, October 28, 10 a.m. - 2 p.m. Writing Sample Required by October 1 for participation. In the Just Buffalo Workshop Room Market Arcade Building, 617 Main St., First Floor. =24100, =2480 for members Poetry and Memory A Poetry Workshop For Poets of All Levels Instructor: Barbara Cole Four Tuesday Evening Sessions: October 17, 24, 31; November 7, 7-9 p.m. In the Just Buffalo Workshop Room Market Arcade Building, 617 Main St., First Floor. =24100, =2480 memberS The Tao of Writing A Creativity Workshop for Writers of All Levels Instructor: Ralph Wahlstrom 4 Thursdays, November 2, 9, 16, and 30, 7-9 p.m. In the Just Buffalo Workshop Room Market Arcade Building, 617 Main St., First Floor. =24100, =2480 member Turning Poems Into Song Lyrics A Special Session For Aspiring Songwriters and Poets Instructor: Grammy Award-Winning Poet/Lyricist Wyn Cooper Tentative Date: Tuesday, November14, 7-9 p.m. In the Just Buffalo Workshop Room Market Arcade Building, 617 Main St., First Floor. =2450. =2440 for members JOIN JUST BUFFALO ONLINE=21=21=21 If you would like to join Just Buffalo, or simply make a massive personal d= onation, you can do so online using your credit card. We have recently added the abilit= y to join online by paying with a credit card through PayPal. Simply click on the me= mbership level at which you would like to join, log in (or create a PayPal account u= sing your Visa/Amex/Mastercard/Discover), and voil=E1, you will find yourself in lite= rary heaven. For more info, or to join now, go to our website: http://www.justbuffalo.org/membership/index.shtml JUST BUFFALO WRITER'S CRITIQUE GROUP Members of Just Buffalo are welcome to attend a free, bi-monthly writer cri= tique group in CEPA's Flux Gallery. Group meets 1st and 3rd Wednesday at 7 p.m. Call fo= r details. Note: the critique group is on hiatus until September. Please call in Augu= st if you'd like to join up in the fall. LITERARY BUFFALO Visit our website to download a pdf of the September Literary Buffalo poste= r, which lists all of Buffalo's literary events in the month of September. UNSUBSCRIBE If you would like to unsubscribe from this list, just say so and you will b= e immediately removed. _______________________________ Michael Kelleher Artistic Director Just Buffalo Literary Center Market Arcade 617 Main St., Ste. 202A Buffalo, NY 14203 716.832.5400 716.270.0184 (fax) www.justbuffalo.org mjk=40justbuffalo.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 10:52:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Daniel f. Bradley" Subject: poetry Re: politics and how they mix so badly In-Reply-To: <44EA0510.9090900@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit i know i’m nitpicking or at least playing out of bounds on this one but “i want to underscore how the movement toward political speech is a movement toward sure answers and certitude.” frankly this statement is the exact opposite of all my poems, I write to get out of this kind of thinking i don’t know what you others are doing but. … everything is nothing is political these are argument best left to the hired class (which this list seems to be largely made up of) write a great political poem that is still blasting 100 years later and I bet there is very little “journalism” in that poem which unfortunately is the style that most political poems take as good buddy calls it – “your reading pamphlets”- bad poem bad poet Eric Yost wrote: Andy wrote: For one thing, "vulnerability," leaving oneself open to error and to multiple possible solutions (and to more interesting problems than the ones we're handed--and, because of all this, to attack), seems to me to be an essential ethical concept at this time, when we've suffered through almost five years of a relentless emphasis on "security." Support for the all-out "war on terror" has been (especially since 9/11) based largely on an insistence on the right to a total safety; do I need to point out that this safety is factually impossible? That nothing whatsoever can ensure an absolute safety on any scale? In the face of this, the demand for invulnerability amounts to a sociopathic paranoia. Substitute "security" for "invulnerability" and you have the content of one of ee cummings' _Six Nonlectures_. And it's easy to agree with much of what Andy writes. However, look at the movement in the passage above. When Andy connects poetry to politics, when he expands Sonnenberg's comments about vulnerability in political poems to politics itself, his prose immediately becomes dead certain, almost alarmist. See how the passage moves? No longer are we "vulnerable" to "possible solutions." Instead, we are facing "sociopathic paranoia." This is NOT to demean the merits of Andy's argument; rather I want to underscore how the movement toward political speech is a movement toward sure answers and certitude. The passage does not offer any vulnerability to possible justifications for the demand for security. Instead we have the certain knowledge that we are living through a social "insistence on the right to a total safety." That may or may not be. The point is the way language changes in the political--from the meditative to the rallying cry. Best to all, Eric Yost Pennsylvania helping to kill your literati star since 2004 http://fhole.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 16:13:20 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Subject: [For Jason Quackenbush] Re: UK Poets -- WELSH MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I mentioned this thread to a friend who knows much more about Welsh poetry than I do, and pass on, with her permission, some remarks she made in two emails. R. ******** Gwyneth Lewis has published poems in Welsh and in English -- they are not translations of each other as she says she writes different poems in each language. (Not all Welsh poets do this -- most write in one or the other language, and Menna Elfyn translates her own and publishes them in bilingual editions.) Lewis publishes alternate books in Welsh and English. She has 3 English collections to date: 'Parables and Faxes', 'Zero Gravity', and 'Keeping Mum', which last is a detective story in verse about the 'murder' of the Welsh language -- a bit tongue in cheek but serious too. 'Zero Gravity' is marvellous. There's also a Collected Poems, but I never really trust them to have it all. She's written prose as well, not critical but 'diary' sort of things about her battle with depression, and I haven't read any of that apart from snippets quoted in reviews etc, though I believe it's often surprisingly funny. Sheenagh Pugh can hold her own with the best of them. She's a poet who happens to be Welsh, rather than one who takes a stand on her Welshness. I rate her very highly. And if you want an up-and-coming young Welsh poet, Owen Sheers is the one. Mind you, he's just too beautiful to be true; but he's a good poet and going to be better. Seren publish both him and Pugh, and Lewis is with Bloodaxe. And [Robert] Minhinnick is Carcanet of course -- I have 'After the Hurricane', which I really must do more than dip into, and soon! Lewis is doing some interesting things with what seem to me to be ideas of duality, in addition to the duality of language she's engaging in. Minhinnick seems to me to be the one who's most obviously interesting in terms of form. ******* [Further to the mention of Robert Minhinnick above:] This bit copied from Carcanet's online catalogue. << The Adulterer's Tongue casts a brilliant light on the world of Welsh-language poetry. Poetry has been written in Welsh for over fifteen hundred years: an ancient literature, it is also a vibrant part of the culture of modern Europe, often overlooked by English speakers. Robert Minhinnick's translations bring six outstanding contemporary Welsh language poets into the spotlight, providing the Welsh texts en face. Minhinnick, himself a leading poet, is conscious of the responsibilities of translating out of a minority language. His versions take risks, but honour the originals' forms and intentions, making audible a wide array of individual styles and voices. The poets here each in different ways remake the language and culture they inherit. This collection testifies to the abiding creative energy of the Welsh language and culture. The poets are: Bobi Jones, Menna Elfyn, Emyr Lewis, Iwan Llwyd, Gwyneth Lewis and Elin ap Hywel. >> I should mention the Academi, the official Welsh literature promotional agency which does things like running the Cardiff International Poetry competition (valuable and prestigious -- I'd love even to be placed!), and is also a sort of higher echelon of writers -- you get invited to join this rather than buying in. If anybody is actually wondering about Welsh-language avant-gard, then I am not the one to ask, and it might be best to contact the Academi direct and ask them. (Try their website). I could maybe ask Annie's 22-year-old niece, who grew up bilingual, graduated in English with a creative writing option, and now writes in both Welsh and English; she might know if such a thing at the very least exists. Though I'd have thought they'd have quite enough on their plates without L=A=N=G=P=O in Welsh! The (Anglo-)Welsh literary publishing house is Seren, which is I believe Welsh for star. The quarterly mag Poetry Wales, presently edited by Minhinnick, is it seems also run by them, which I hadn't realised. There was something called The Anglo-Welsh Review, which I understand is now defunct and replaced by The New Anglo-Welsh Review. May be doing it an injustice but it doesn't sound terribly interesting, to me -- a bit staid. Might be wrong! Haven't been able to hunt down any Welsh-language poetry mags. They must exist, surely; but not so easy to find their websites if you don't read Welsh more than about 15 words. But anyway, it'd be the Welsh poets writing in English that would be of interest to Jason [Quackenbush]. And with them, the really interesting aspect is the vitality their work gains from the cross-fertilisation of cultures. And it's obviously way past time that I knew more about that myself too, in practical terms. Not speaking Welsh, but having in my ear the familial matrix from which my English grew. ******* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 10:17:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: Re: politics and poetry In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable would that have been an orgone box he was describing?=20 tl =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D "if I make the box big enough, does that=20 mean I'm thinking outside of it?" -- Susan R. Larson =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Ruth Lepson Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 8:46 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: politics and poetry I believe Wilhelm Reich (not that he is the last word) wrote that art is made not from within the box or outside of the box but in getting out of the box. Of course there are all kinds of poetry in all countries, each w/ its own greatness. =20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 17:44:08 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Re: Experimental Writing Programs - Are there any? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable as does our program at SUNY Albany, if I may say so myself. On Aug 22, 2006, at 4:14 PM, Maria Damon wrote: > nothing as in-process as black mt, but there are programs that =20 > favor "experimental" writing: > SUNY-buffalo (phd not mfa) > naropa institute > uc-san diego ? > brown university > california college of art > new college of california > upenn (phd) > temple u (ma not mfa) > > At 6:46 AM -0700 8/22/06, AG Jorgensen wrote: >> Been refamiliarizing myself with Black Mountain - the >> exchange between artists, a kind of collaborative, >> teachers and students as peers. Is there anything like >> this currently in the US? Anything being developed >> among the many excellent programs for writers and >> artists out there. >> >> AGJ >> >> --- >> "Our best security, our only security, is in the world of ideas, =20 >> and I sense a slight foreboding," he said.-- Justice Anthony Kennedy >> >> __________________________________________________ >> Do You Yahoo!? >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >> http://mail.yahoo.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism,since it is the merger of state and corporate power." =97 Benito Mussolini =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D Pierre Joris 244 Elm Street Albany NY 12202 home: 518 442-4071 cell: 518 225 7123 office: 518 442 40 85 Paris: 01 43 54 95 13 French cell: 06 75 43 57 10 email: joris@albany.edu http://pierrejoris.com Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 05:45:34 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabrielle Welford Subject: Re: politics and poetry In-Reply-To: <20060821064240.82989.qmail@web36206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT i meant to respond to the original post desiring an open poetry, but this says everything i would want to say. i like david antin's work for this reason and his reasons for doing it. best to all, gabe On Sun, 20 Aug 2006, Andy Gricevich wrote: > The claim that poetry and politics are essentially opposed is a sigh of > resignation that wants to make itself universal. > > In a recent workshop on "Poetry and the News" (given at Woodland Pattern > in Milwaukee), Kerri Sonnenberg put some emphasis on the value of > "vulnerability" for poetry that concerns itself with politics. The > explicit suggestion was that a political poem is more likely to appeal > to/reach a reader if the poet doesn't seem to already know the answers > to her questions (and, therefore, if the poem raises questions-- this > said with the caveat that a totally open indecisiveness that anyone can > feel comfortable with is NOT what's being recommended). There are a > number of appealing things about this notion and the ways it can be > expanded. > > For one thing, "vulnerability," leaving oneself open to error and to > multiple possible solutions (and to more interesting problems than the > ones we're handed--and, because of all this, to attack), seems to me to > be an essential ethical concept at this time, when we've suffered > through almost five years of a relentless emphasis on "security." > Support for the all-out "war on terror" has been (especially since 9/11) > based largely on an insistence on the right to a total safety; do I need > to point out that this safety is factually impossible? That nothing > whatsoever can ensure an absolute safety on any scale? In the face of > this, the demand for invulnerability amounts to a sociopathic paranoia. > This is as true on the interpersonal scale as it is on the global. > Letting vulnerability be is one way of removing oneself from power > relations whose tendency is to reproduce themselves (indefinetely > deferring their own impossible satisfaction), and whose consequences are > brutal. > > Recently, as part of an ongoing investigation of her book "The > Fatalist," I watched a Kelly Writers' House talk given by Lyn Hejinian > (archived on the PennSound site), in which she discusses the "open text" > explicitly in terms of the contrary desire for closure, again in > reference to 9/11. She identifies the need to close the narrative begun > by the events of that day as one of the major political crises of our > day. Too often the idea of "openness" in poetry is oversimplified (made > vague and broad) and caricatured, mostly by people who want to take a > swipe at "LangPo," and can do so by not examining the actual work of > those writers, but instead taking one or two sentences from an essay > written in the late '70's and riffing on that. In her talk, Hejinian > proposes one of many specific kinds and functions of openness (the > "rejection of closure" for crucial political reasons) in poetic writing. > > Openness and vulnerability. Poetry is a comparatively safe place to > practice these. Even a prescriptive political poetry (isn't this an > unlikely term? who will have their politics prescribed by a poem? > "no-one listens to poetry") can allow its prescriptions to include their > own cracks, uncertainties, provisionalities, tactical transiences, the > new questions and problems raised by those very solutions offered as > prescriptions. Vulnerability means maintaining a space for an active, > thinking listening in the face of the insistent beat of rectitude that > can only be heard and absorbed. > > ("no/ one listens to poetry") > > > --------------------------------- > Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out. > gabrielle welford welford@hawaii.edu Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.595 / Virus Database: 378 - Release Date: 2/25/2004 wilhelm reich anarcho-syndicalism gut/heart/head/earth ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 08:51:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: maxpaul@SFSU.EDU Subject: Re: Experimental Writing Programs - Are there any? In-Reply-To: <6B78AF61-FB1B-487F-8E7D-045C6CDEEEB8@mac.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit San Francisco State. Quoting Pierre Joris : > as does our program at SUNY Albany, if I may say so myself. > > On Aug 22, 2006, at 4:14 PM, Maria Damon wrote: > > > nothing as in-process as black mt, but there are programs that > > favor "experimental" writing: > > SUNY-buffalo (phd not mfa) > > naropa institute > > uc-san diego ? > > brown university > > california college of art > > new college of california > > upenn (phd) > > temple u (ma not mfa) > > > > At 6:46 AM -0700 8/22/06, AG Jorgensen wrote: > >> Been refamiliarizing myself with Black Mountain - the > >> exchange between artists, a kind of collaborative, > >> teachers and students as peers. Is there anything like > >> this currently in the US? Anything being developed > >> among the many excellent programs for writers and > >> artists out there. > >> > >> AGJ > >> > >> --- > >> "Our best security, our only security, is in the world of ideas, > >> and I sense a slight foreboding," he said.-- Justice Anthony Kennedy > >> > >> __________________________________________________ > >> Do You Yahoo!? > >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > >> http://mail.yahoo.com > > ============================= > "Fascism should more properly > be called corporatism,since it is the > merger of state and corporate power." > — Benito Mussolini > ============================= > Pierre Joris > 244 Elm Street > Albany NY 12202 > home: 518 442-4071 > cell: 518 225 7123 > office: 518 442 40 85 > Paris: 01 43 54 95 13 > French cell: 06 75 43 57 10 > email: joris@albany.edu > http://pierrejoris.com > Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com > ========================= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 11:51:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Clements Subject: Re: Experimental Writing Programs - Are there any? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Michael Magee has also started a summer program at the Institute for Poetic Arts and Critcial Theory at RISD that offers for-credit courses. http://www.risd.edu/ipact.cfm IPACT is designed for creative writers looking to break down barriers and expand their intellectual/cultural horizons. Dr. Brian Clements, Coordinator MFA in Professional Writing 203-837-8876 _____ Dept. of English Language, Comparative Literature, and Writing Western Connecticut State University 181 White St. Danbury, CT 06810 _____ http://www.wcsu.edu/english/mfa Maria Damon Sent by: UB Poetics discussion group 08/22/2006 10:14 AM Please respond to UB Poetics discussion group To POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU cc Subject Re: Experimental Writing Programs - Are there any? nothing as in-process as black mt, but there are programs that favor "experimental" writing: SUNY-buffalo (phd not mfa) naropa institute uc-san diego ? brown university california college of art new college of california upenn (phd) temple u (ma not mfa) At 6:46 AM -0700 8/22/06, AG Jorgensen wrote: >Been refamiliarizing myself with Black Mountain - the >exchange between artists, a kind of collaborative, >teachers and students as peers. Is there anything like >this currently in the US? Anything being developed >among the many excellent programs for writers and >artists out there. > >AGJ > >--- >"Our best security, our only security, is in the world of ideas, and >I sense a slight foreboding," he said.-- Justice Anthony Kennedy > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 12:48:24 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Daniel f. Bradley" Subject: Re: Experimental Writing Programs - Are they not yet proven or available for general use. In-Reply-To: <1156261890.44eb2802ab8f1@webmail.sfsu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit are you fucking kidding –it isn’t experimental if its being taught if you want to write like someone else by all mean follow all these esteemed suggestions if you want write differently read a shit load of weird books (different types of book not justthose French guys in English) and start writing outside yourself maxpaul@SFSU.EDU wrote: San Francisco State. Quoting Pierre Joris : > as does our program at SUNY Albany, if I may say so myself. > > On Aug 22, 2006, at 4:14 PM, Maria Damon wrote: > > > nothing as in-process as black mt, but there are programs that > > favor "experimental" writing: > > SUNY-buffalo (phd not mfa) > > naropa institute > > uc-san diego ? > > brown university > > california college of art > > new college of california > > upenn (phd) > > temple u (ma not mfa) > > > > At 6:46 AM -0700 8/22/06, AG Jorgensen wrote: > >> Been refamiliarizing myself with Black Mountain - the > >> exchange between artists, a kind of collaborative, > >> teachers and students as peers. Is there anything like > >> this currently in the US? Anything being developed > >> among the many excellent programs for writers and > >> artists out there. > >> > >> AGJ > >> > >> --- > >> "Our best security, our only security, is in the world of ideas, > >> and I sense a slight foreboding," he said.-- Justice Anthony Kennedy > >> > >> __________________________________________________ > >> Do You Yahoo!? > >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > >> http://mail.yahoo.com > > ============================= > "Fascism should more properly > be called corporatism,since it is the > merger of state and corporate power." > — Benito Mussolini > ============================= > Pierre Joris > 244 Elm Street > Albany NY 12202 > home: 518 442-4071 > cell: 518 225 7123 > office: 518 442 40 85 > Paris: 01 43 54 95 13 > French cell: 06 75 43 57 10 > email: joris@albany.edu > http://pierrejoris.com > Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com > ========================= helping to kill your literati star since 2004 http://fhole.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 11:53:10 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Re: Experimental Writing Programs - Are they not yet proven or available for general use. Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Bradley, nice answer. A lot of people like this answer because it's so, lik= e, autonomous - not reactionary at all. Experimental might be like self-help, didactic? Bradley: whoop whoop! Chris > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Daniel f. Bradley" > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Experimental Writing Programs - Are they not yet proven or a= vailable for general use. > Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 12:48:24 -0400 >=20 >=20 > are you fucking kidding =96it isn=92t experimental if its being taught >=20 > if you want to write like someone else by all mean follow all these es= teemed suggestions >=20 > if you want write differently >=20 > read a shit load of weird books (different types of book not justthose= French guys in=20 > English) and start writing outside yourself >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > maxpaul@SFSU.EDU wrote: > San Francisco State. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Quoting Pierre Joris : >=20 > > as does our program at SUNY Albany, if I may say so myself. > > > > On Aug 22, 2006, at 4:14 PM, Maria Damon wrote: > > > > > nothing as in-process as black mt, but there are programs that > favo= r "experimental"=20 > > writing: > > > SUNY-buffalo (phd not mfa) > > > naropa institute > > > uc-san diego ? > > > brown university > > > california college of art > > > new college of california > > > upenn (phd) > > > temple u (ma not mfa) > > > > > > At 6:46 AM -0700 8/22/06, AG Jorgensen wrote: > > >> Been refamiliarizing myself with Black Mountain - the > > >> exchange between artists, a kind of collaborative, > > >> teachers and students as peers. Is there anything like > > >> this currently in the US? Anything being developed > > >> among the many excellent programs for writers and > > >> artists out there. > > >> > > >> AGJ > > >> > > >> --- > > >> "Our best security, our only security, is in the world of ideas, >> = and I sense a slight=20 > > foreboding," he said.-- Justice Anthony Kennedy > > >> > > >> __________________________________________________ > > >> Do You Yahoo!? > > >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > > >> http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > "Fascism should more properly > > be called corporatism,since it is the > > merger of state and corporate power." > > =97 Benito Mussolini > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > Pierre Joris > > 244 Elm Street > > Albany NY 12202 > > home: 518 442-4071 > > cell: 518 225 7123 > > office: 518 442 40 85 > > Paris: 01 43 54 95 13 > > French cell: 06 75 43 57 10 > > email: joris@albany.edu > > http://pierrejoris.com > > Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D >=20 >=20 >=20 > helping to kill your literati star since 2004 > http://fhole.blogspot.com/ >=20 > Christophe Casamassima Professor Emiritus, Modern Languages & Philology University of Jamaica Avenue, Queens, N.Y. --=20 ___________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.graffiti.net/ Powered By Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 10:08:28 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: immediacy and entertainment In-Reply-To: <20060822141952.59869.qmail@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed as far as immediacy goes, and i'm working this out on the fly because it's something i've just been thinking about recently, i think the field bears a distinction between immediacy in composition, which is certainly true of the dadaists and surrealists, and immediacy in fascination--i really like that term for what i want to say all works should strive towards. I think where a lot of the poetry envelope pushers of the last century went wrong was in establishing too high a threshhold for the fascination to trigger. That is, rather than going out and trying to attract an audience, there has been--in a lot of cases, although certainly not all--an expectation for the reader to come to the poet rather than the poet coming to the reader. Now, i'm certainly not advocating a crass commercialism or some sort of Ted Kooserish populism. I just think that it's a little bit odd that so many American poets don't feel compelled to try to be as interesting as possible. As an example, my mother is an intelligent woman with a post graduate education who is highly literate and enjoys reading. She is not, however, a specialist in poetry. From time to time, I leave books at my parents house and she flips through them, and I take her reactions to be illuminating. Of Russell Edson's _The Tunnel_: "some of these are really funny. he doesn't like women, does he?" Of the Collected Ted Berrigan: "Some of these are really good when he's talking about his friends and family." and of Hejinian's _My Life_: "I can't make heads or tales of this. blech." I guess what i'm trying to say is that I think, since the ascendance of Pound and Williams, and particularly since Language poetry, there's been a movement away from engaging the reader, trying to fascinate a reader, in the direction of a stentorian demand that the reader work to understand the poet. I'm not 100% sure i understand what people like Prof Watten are talking about when they're talking about open texts and the democratization of poetry and what not, but I think it's telling that what's essentially liberal in theory becomes authoritarian in practice, demanding that the reader work to engage the poet rather than the poet engage the reader, all in return for some reward to come should the reader do so. Of course the analogy to stalinism breaks down at the point that the reader actually engages with a text, but still, I think it's worth examining. Particularly since those anti-reader tendencies have become even more exaggerated in the work of certain recent digital and visual poetries. I'm not saying it's wrong to place high demands on the reader. I like a lot of poetry that does. What I'm trying to get at is the unexplored landscape of fascination, of trying to fascinate while at the same time avoiding the stock tropes and cliche moves that are familiar from hollywood and television. Interestingly, I think a lot of that can come from things that poetics have traditionally ignored. One of the things that makes HBO's "Deadwood" so fascinating, for example, is it's setting, which, I think, every aesthetician since Aristotle has downplayed as one of the least important factors in a work. Thanks for this response Andrew. I'm still working through the thoughts you've cause me to think. But I feel some certain growth, or at least, some clarity in my means of articulating my ideas as a result of this email; I really appreciate it. yrs, JFQ On Tue, 22 Aug 2006, Alexander Dickow wrote: > Jason, > Agreed that a lot of poets these days don't seem to be > willing to think about, let's say, audiences. > But "immediacy"? Works we call "entertaining" tend to > be all but immediate, because they rely on > "commonplaces," formulas, conventions, eg Hollywood, > Spielberg.... > Conversely, many "avant-guard" poets of the last > century have claimed "immediacy" as a central > principle of their work. Cf for instance Tristan Tzara > -- deemed (incorrectly for the most part, in my > opinion) "incomprehensible" sometimes by the poet > himself. > Also, you talk about "entertainment", and then proceed > to describe one of the effects people attribute to > "high art": Fascination. I wonder if the terms of the > problem aren't posed imperfectly here. > That said, yes, the High Art and Poetry of Genius that > I enjoy happens to Entertain me also. > Yours, > Alex > > > Jason Quackenbush wrote: > > Marjorie Perloff asserts the compliment, that Postry > ought to be > written only > as a form of philosophy, in Wittgenstein's ladder > saying it follows > from the > first, which it doesn't, but oh well, if you go > through life expecting > valid > moves of logic from critics, you're going to be very > disappointed. > > I'm bringing this up because i think there's a > tendency for people to > want to > connect poetry to something "deeper" and casting about > for that > "something > deep" they light naturally on philosophy because > philosophy is > confusing and > weird and decorated with all sorts of erudition > besides, and if you > don't > understand it but intelligent people seem to, then it > must be deep, > right? > except that's a trap that could lead one to assert > that star trek the > next > generation is deep. It is not, nor is philosophy. > > What's my point? Poetry is entertainment. That's all > it's ever been. > It's a way > of holding the attention of an audience in order to > communicate > something. > That's my biggest beef with language poetry and a lot > of the composite > sleight > of hand stuff that is going on in the neo-concrete > poetry/digital > poetry/conceptual poetry/vispo people in the wake of > the american tree. > For > some reason it's become acceptable in the pursuit of > poetry as > political > statement or piece of high art to ignore it's function > as entertainment > and in > the process completely disregard immediacy as a > measure of quality. > Granted, > immediacy can be construed as a function of literacy, > but only up to a > point. > > Once one has moved beyond the general familiarity with > a canon and a > tradition > that is to be expected of someone engaged in a > literature, the criteria > of > immediacy returns and only so much obliqueness and > "openness" to a text > can be > tolerated before one has to say that it is boring and > stupid. There is > a lot of > boring, stupid work in the world, and I think a > general disdain for a > certain > amount of immediacy is the result. At some point early > in the twentieth > century, and I think Ezra Pound is largely to be > blamed for this in > poetry--although it is certainly not limited to that, > a contrapopular > "high > art" meta-aesthetic was instituted that, whatever else > was going on in > various > movements, can be traced over the course of the > development of various > american > arts. When I say meta-aesthetic, I'm referring to what > is obvious in > the work > of the rank and file priests, monks, and nuns, and not > the stated aims > of the > bishops and cardinals following from the likes of > Pound, Picasso, and > Schoenberg. > > I think that a large percentage of work that is trying > to be > adventurous has > chosen obscurantism and obfuscation in place of > immediacy as a means of > concealing the work's essentially anemic semantics. It > has been allowed > to do > so largely because to the uninitiated, work that is > adventurous is > often > indistinguishable from work that is incomprehensible. > I think this is > the sort > of problem that leads lesser light like Kenneth > Goldsmith to say things > like > "The 20th century avant-garde liked to embrace boredom > as a way of > getting > around what it considered to be the vapid "excitement" > of popular > culture." > Nonsense. The twentieth century avant-garde is full of > exciting work, > not the > least of which most of the output of Goldsmith's "king > of boredom" > Jackson Mac > Low. people who think that all there is to adventurous > work is to strip > the > work of the immediacy (the immediacy that is present > in unadventurous > work > through it's cliche nature) are missing the boat > completely. To be > disoriented > by a work and to have to figure out how to address it, > is not to say > that the > work shouldn't try to compel it's viewer or reader to > try to address > it. That's > one of the chief functions of the size of abstract > expressionist > paintings, to > pick an oft misunderstood example. A rothko, were it > the size of a > postage > stamp, would suck because it could easily be ignored. > But rothko's > enormous > canvases demand attention, as do Mac Low's "twenties" > poems to give an > example > from poetry, works i return to constantly not because > they are obscure > or > because i expect to find something deep there, but > because i still > don't know > quite how to describe how they make me feel. I don't > know how they do > it, but > they draw me back and demand that I deal with them on > some level. I > think part > of it has to do with the fact that one is forced to > read aloud > repeating > phrases over and over again trying to get the silences > timed right. But > it's > such a cunning trick on Mac Low's part to force the > reader into that. > It gives > a work that might otherwise be meaningless, > pretentious, and > obfuscating it's > own boringness, an immediacy that isn't, ironically, > immediately > apparent. > > I'm not sure what i'm talking about anymore or how it > relates to the > thread so > I'm gonna shut up now. > > > "Ce dont le poete souffre le plus dans ses rapports avec le monde, c'est du manque de justice _interne_. La vitre-cloaque de Caliban derriere laquelle les yeux tout-puissants et sensibles d'Ariel s'irritent." > Rene Char, _Partage Formel_, fragment II > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 18:25:48 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Roger Day Subject: Re: Experimental Writing Programs - Are they not yet proven or available for general use. In-Reply-To: <20060822165311.46AAA13EF0@ws5-9.us4.outblaze.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Just as yours is also, like a-uh knee-jerk reaction. Just a different knee ... in fact, the mirror opposite knee ... Roger On 8/22/06, furniture_ press wrote: > Bradley, nice answer. A lot of people like this answer because it's so, l= ike, autonomous - not reactionary at all. > > Experimental might be like self-help, didactic? > > Bradley: whoop whoop! > > Chris > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Daniel f. Bradley" > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: Re: Experimental Writing Programs - Are they not yet proven or= available for general use. > > Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 12:48:24 -0400 > > > > > > are you fucking kidding =96it isn't experimental if its being taught > > > > if you want to write like someone else by all mean follow all these = esteemed suggestions > > > > if you want write differently > > > > read a shit load of weird books (different types of book not justtho= se French guys in > > English) and start writing outside yourself > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > maxpaul@SFSU.EDU wrote: > > San Francisco State. > > > > > > > > Quoting Pierre Joris : > > > > > as does our program at SUNY Albany, if I may say so myself. > > > > > > On Aug 22, 2006, at 4:14 PM, Maria Damon wrote: > > > > > > > nothing as in-process as black mt, but there are programs that > fa= vor "experimental" > > > writing: > > > > SUNY-buffalo (phd not mfa) > > > > naropa institute > > > > uc-san diego ? > > > > brown university > > > > california college of art > > > > new college of california > > > > upenn (phd) > > > > temple u (ma not mfa) > > > > > > > > At 6:46 AM -0700 8/22/06, AG Jorgensen wrote: > > > >> Been refamiliarizing myself with Black Mountain - the > > > >> exchange between artists, a kind of collaborative, > > > >> teachers and students as peers. Is there anything like > > > >> this currently in the US? Anything being developed > > > >> among the many excellent programs for writers and > > > >> artists out there. > > > >> > > > >> AGJ > > > >> > > > >> --- > > > >> "Our best security, our only security, is in the world of ideas, >= > and I sense a slight > > > foreboding," he said.-- Justice Anthony Kennedy > > > >> > > > >> __________________________________________________ > > > >> Do You Yahoo!? > > > >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > > > >> http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > > "Fascism should more properly > > > be called corporatism,since it is the > > > merger of state and corporate power." > > > =97 Benito Mussolini > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > > Pierre Joris > > > 244 Elm Street > > > Albany NY 12202 > > > home: 518 442-4071 > > > cell: 518 225 7123 > > > office: 518 442 40 85 > > > Paris: 01 43 54 95 13 > > > French cell: 06 75 43 57 10 > > > email: joris@albany.edu > > > http://pierrejoris.com > > > Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D > > > > > > > > helping to kill your literati star since 2004 > > http://fhole.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > > > > Christophe Casamassima > Professor Emiritus, Modern Languages & Philology > University of Jamaica Avenue, Queens, N.Y. > > > -- > ___________________________________________ > Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net > Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.graffiti.net/ > > > Powered By Outblaze > --=20 http://www.badstep.net/ http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ "From the waist downwards, Bloodnok was tattooed with a pair of false legs... facing the wrong way." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 12:40:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: Re: immediacy and entertainment In-Reply-To: <20060822141952.59869.qmail@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I like that last statement, Jason...=20 though I don't find most Language poetry as forbidding or unentertaining = as you paint it (sorry langpo folks who are trying to cast an insoluble = stone into the brain's absorptive cistern)...=20 the stuff that resonates does so because of some quality inherent in the = writing -- and something pre -pared/-determined/-assigned in the = reader's head, I would say -- whether or not it "means" anything or can = be digested poetically.=20 ** but we were talking about philosophy yesterday:=20 Marcus: >Poetry is not philosophy, not even close.=20 >The entire point of poetry is the form,=20 >not the content; poetry is all form Alex/Jason: >Also, you talk about "entertainment",=20 >and then proceed to describe one of the >effects people attribute to "high art":=20 >Fascination. cf. Nietzsche contra Wagner : the way I remember it, the philosopher's = break with the composer came when Nietzsche realized that Wagner's = operas were too fascinating, too easy to become mesmerized by... they = are in this sense the ultimate absorptive cultural product. an art made = solely of white cake and sugar frosting gives the philosopher a headache = and a round tummy -- hardly what you want if you're a candidate for = =FCbermenschlichkeit. but why, please tell me, can't philosophy itself be entertaining - = fascinating - immediate - artistic - even poetic ?=20 and go tell Lucretius and Empedocles (et alia) that poetry can't be=20 philosophy. I think the problem here is lexical:=20 what you mean philosophy?=20 what, me poetry? tl -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] = On Behalf Of Alexander Dickow Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 9:20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 20 Aug 2006 to 21 Aug 2006 (#2006-234) Jason, Agreed that a lot of poets these days don't seem to be willing to think about, let's say, audiences. But "immediacy"? Works we call "entertaining" tend to be all but immediate, because they rely on "commonplaces," formulas, conventions, eg Hollywood, Spielberg.... Conversely, many "avant-guard" poets of the last century have claimed "immediacy" as a central principle of their work. Cf for instance Tristan Tzara -- deemed (incorrectly for the most part, in my opinion) "incomprehensible" sometimes by the poet himself. Also, you talk about "entertainment", and then proceed to describe one of the effects people attribute to "high art": Fascination. I wonder if the terms of the problem aren't posed imperfectly here. That said, yes, the High Art and Poetry of Genius that I enjoy happens to Entertain me also. Yours, Alex Jason Quackenbush wrote: Marjorie Perloff asserts the compliment, that Postry ought to be=20 written only=20 as a form of philosophy, in Wittgenstein's ladder saying it follows=20 from the=20 first, which it doesn't, but oh well, if you go through life expecting=20 valid=20 moves of logic from critics, you're going to be very disappointed. I'm bringing this up because i think there's a tendency for people to=20 want to=20 connect poetry to something "deeper" and casting about for that=20 "something=20 deep" they light naturally on philosophy because philosophy is=20 confusing and=20 weird and decorated with all sorts of erudition besides, and if you=20 don't=20 understand it but intelligent people seem to, then it must be deep,=20 right?=20 except that's a trap that could lead one to assert that star trek the=20 next=20 generation is deep. It is not, nor is philosophy. What's my point? Poetry is entertainment. That's all it's ever been.=20 It's a way=20 of holding the attention of an audience in order to communicate=20 something.=20 That's my biggest beef with language poetry and a lot of the composite=20 sleight=20 of hand stuff that is going on in the neo-concrete poetry/digital=20 poetry/conceptual poetry/vispo people in the wake of the american tree. =20 For=20 some reason it's become acceptable in the pursuit of poetry as=20 political=20 statement or piece of high art to ignore it's function as entertainment=20 and in=20 the process completely disregard immediacy as a measure of quality.=20 Granted,=20 immediacy can be construed as a function of literacy, but only up to a=20 point. Once one has moved beyond the general familiarity with a canon and a=20 tradition=20 that is to be expected of someone engaged in a literature, the criteria=20 of=20 immediacy returns and only so much obliqueness and "openness" to a text=20 can be=20 tolerated before one has to say that it is boring and stupid. There is=20 a lot of=20 boring, stupid work in the world, and I think a general disdain for a=20 certain=20 amount of immediacy is the result. At some point early in the twentieth=20 century, and I think Ezra Pound is largely to be blamed for this in=20 poetry--although it is certainly not limited to that, a contrapopular=20 "high=20 art" meta-aesthetic was instituted that, whatever else was going on in=20 various=20 movements, can be traced over the course of the development of various=20 american=20 arts. When I say meta-aesthetic, I'm referring to what is obvious in=20 the work=20 of the rank and file priests, monks, and nuns, and not the stated aims=20 of the=20 bishops and cardinals following from the likes of Pound, Picasso, and=20 Schoenberg. I think that a large percentage of work that is trying to be=20 adventurous has=20 chosen obscurantism and obfuscation in place of immediacy as a means of=20 concealing the work's essentially anemic semantics. It has been allowed=20 to do=20 so largely because to the uninitiated, work that is adventurous is=20 often=20 indistinguishable from work that is incomprehensible. I think this is=20 the sort=20 of problem that leads lesser light like Kenneth Goldsmith to say things=20 like=20 "The 20th century avant-garde liked to embrace boredom as a way of=20 getting=20 around what it considered to be the vapid "excitement" of popular=20 culture."=20 Nonsense. The twentieth century avant-garde is full of exciting work,=20 not the=20 least of which most of the output of Goldsmith's "king of boredom"=20 Jackson Mac=20 Low. people who think that all there is to adventurous work is to strip=20 the=20 work of the immediacy (the immediacy that is present in unadventurous=20 work=20 through it's cliche nature) are missing the boat completely. To be=20 disoriented=20 by a work and to have to figure out how to address it, is not to say=20 that the=20 work shouldn't try to compel it's viewer or reader to try to address=20 it. That's=20 one of the chief functions of the size of abstract expressionist=20 paintings, to=20 pick an oft misunderstood example. A rothko, were it the size of a=20 postage=20 stamp, would suck because it could easily be ignored. But rothko's=20 enormous=20 canvases demand attention, as do Mac Low's "twenties" poems to give an=20 example=20 from poetry, works i return to constantly not because they are obscure=20 or=20 because i expect to find something deep there, but because i still=20 don't know=20 quite how to describe how they make me feel. I don't know how they do=20 it, but=20 they draw me back and demand that I deal with them on some level. I=20 think part=20 of it has to do with the fact that one is forced to read aloud=20 repeating=20 phrases over and over again trying to get the silences timed right. But=20 it's=20 such a cunning trick on Mac Low's part to force the reader into that.=20 It gives=20 a work that might otherwise be meaningless, pretentious, and=20 obfuscating it's=20 own boringness, an immediacy that isn't, ironically, immediately=20 apparent. I'm not sure what i'm talking about anymore or how it relates to the=20 thread so=20 I'm gonna shut up now. "Ce dont le poete souffre le plus dans ses rapports avec le monde, c'est = du manque de justice _interne_. La vitre-cloaque de Caliban derriere = laquelle les yeux tout-puissants et sensibles d'Ariel s'irritent." Rene Char, _Partage Formel_, fragment II ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 13:43:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eric Yost Subject: Re: Politics and Poetry In-Reply-To: <20060822065730.14978.qmail@web36204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andy: Vulnerability as a way of being, rather than a tactical move, perhaps... and what would that mean?... Hmmmm. In part, an ability to transcend one's politics, rethink them or suspend them--for what is "commitment" but a series of beliefs one is unwilling to question? The unwillingness to question basic political assumptions--even to recognize that one operates from such assumptions--usually means that political discussions end in shouting matches and name calling. Some people think politics is an extension of their personal morality. For them, political arguments are essentially moral ones. Others think politics is an amoral game of geopolitical advantage, and answer moral objections with practical ones designed to maximize advantage for the group with which they identify. For example: "Gitmo is wrong. It shows an evil side of our country." "But Gitmo works. It enables us to interrogate suspects without their being all lawyered up." "Innocent people are in Gitmo. They suffer." "The twentieth hijacker is also in Gitmo. Should we let him take the Fifth Amendment?" "We have certain standards to live up to." "We are also at war and should play to win." Both sides talk past each other. You can't answer a moral argument with a practical objection. You also can't answer a practical argument with a moral objection. If you do, you engage two arguments rather than one. So--disregarding the broader sense of politics--maybe the first part of "vulnerability" is examining the grounds of commitment. (I remember listening to anarchists in Tompkins Square Park in the '90s arguing over what the Anarchist Flag should be.) Think of Pushkin. He was a firebrand political poet who moderated over time. The Tsar took it on himself to be Pushkin's editor and censor, thus preventing Pushkin from dying in the Decembrist Revolt--perhaps because he recognized that Pushkin's poetry was more important the ephemeral politics. Or think of the little menage WH Auden set up in Brooklyn, where he banned discussions of politics and religion at table. The unspoken might be another form of vulnerability. Best, Eric ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 11:06:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joseph Thomas Subject: Re: Experimental Writing Programs - Are they not yet proven or available for general use. In-Reply-To: <20060822164824.63112.qmail@web88107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I've written in a lot of places, but never outside myself. Best, Joseph --- "Daniel f. Bradley" wrote: > > read a shit load of weird books (different types > of book not justthose French guys in English) and > start writing outside yourself > > > > > > > > maxpaul@SFSU.EDU wrote: > San Francisco State. > > > > Quoting Pierre Joris : > > > as does our program at SUNY Albany, if I may say > so myself. > > > > On Aug 22, 2006, at 4:14 PM, Maria Damon wrote: > > > > > nothing as in-process as black mt, but there are > programs that > > > favor "experimental" writing: > > > SUNY-buffalo (phd not mfa) > > > naropa institute > > > uc-san diego ? > > > brown university > > > california college of art > > > new college of california > > > upenn (phd) > > > temple u (ma not mfa) > > > > > > At 6:46 AM -0700 8/22/06, AG Jorgensen wrote: > > >> Been refamiliarizing myself with Black Mountain > - the > > >> exchange between artists, a kind of > collaborative, > > >> teachers and students as peers. Is there > anything like > > >> this currently in the US? Anything being > developed > > >> among the many excellent programs for writers > and > > >> artists out there. > > >> > > >> AGJ > > >> > > >> --- > > >> "Our best security, our only security, is in > the world of ideas, > > >> and I sense a slight foreboding," he said.-- > Justice Anthony Kennedy > > >> > > >> > __________________________________________________ > > >> Do You Yahoo!? > > >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > > >> http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > ============================= > > "Fascism should more properly > > be called corporatism,since it is the > > merger of state and corporate power." > > — Benito Mussolini > > ============================= > > Pierre Joris > > 244 Elm Street > > Albany NY 12202 > > home: 518 442-4071 > > cell: 518 225 7123 > > office: 518 442 40 85 > > Paris: 01 43 54 95 13 > > French cell: 06 75 43 57 10 > > email: joris@albany.edu > > http://pierrejoris.com > > Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com > > ========================= > > > > helping to kill your literati star since 2004 > http://fhole.blogspot.com/ > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 11:17:26 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: poetry Re: politics and how they mix so badly In-Reply-To: <20060822145225.38655.qmail@web88101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've been disturbed, in this conversation by the way the term "politics" is being used, how discussion moved very quickly past politics' identification (and not) with "religion," which is one of the major geopolitical issues of the day, and our country historically, [Eric's last started to touch on this -- religion is not philosophy] and the reduction of the "immigration mess" from: conservative - not quite neo fascist as in Europe - opposition to immigration / liberal coalition-style opposition to globalism / liberal support of illegal immigration / conservative support of a permanent servant class to: "fight the power," and the ways in which this is being nicely knotted with a performance / entertainment / "natural" poetry versus an elitist / language / "cultural" poetry dichotomy w/o any consideration of the extremely political aspects of the poetry most people on this list write and publish All best, Catherine Daly back to Hollywood, and my factory school ms draft about liberte egalite fraternite vs. travail familie patrie; at least Steve Martin wrote (he has rewrite credit), "Paris" (quoted on IMDB as "politics") "where greed wears the mask of morality" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 14:26:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: Infotainment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain It strikes me as odd to say that since modernism the idea has been that readers should work hard to understand the poet. When I'm reading poetry, it's the poetry I'm working with and understanding. If I read more of a particular artist's work, I may try to understand the poet as well, by many of the same means -- but that's not, for me, what is at issue in the reading of any given poem. But, more crucially in my view, people are all too quick to make assumptions about what sorts of linguistic acts require more or less work on the part of readers and listeners. For one quick example, given the frequency with which I encounter people who believe that Frost's poem means that good fences do make good neighbors, understanding even the seemingly most straightforward poetry may be more complex than we'd think at first blush. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 14:29:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: Experimental Writing Programs - Are they not yet proven or available for general use. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Inner writing, Joseph? That would certainly explain the obsessive look in the eye! On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 11:06:23 +0000, Joseph Thomas wrote: > I've written in a lot of places, but never outside > myself. > > Best, > Joseph > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 14:46:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Phil Primeau Subject: Re: Experimental Writing Programs - Are they not yet proven or available for general use. In-Reply-To: <200608221829.OAA02364@webmail5.cac.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dan, Those programs don't necessarily "teach" experimental techniques, they just -- as Maria said -- favor avant tendancies more than other institutions. PRP ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 08:56:08 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabrielle Welford Subject: Re: politics and poetry In-Reply-To: <54AA9B41BC35F34EAD02E660901D8A5A07ACB43C@TLRUSMNEAGMBX10.ERF.THOMSON.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT more like the cage he describes in one of his essays? On Tue, 22 Aug 2006, Tom W. Lewis wrote: > would that have been an orgone box he was describing? > > tl > > > ============================================ > "if I make the box big enough, does that > mean I'm thinking outside of it?" > -- Susan R. Larson > ============================================ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] > On Behalf Of Ruth Lepson > Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 8:46 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: politics and poetry > > I believe Wilhelm Reich (not that he is the last word) wrote that art is > made not from within the box or outside of the box but in getting out of > the > box. Of course there are all kinds of poetry in all countries, each w/ > its > own greatness. > > > gabrielle welford welford@hawaii.edu Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.595 / Virus Database: 378 - Release Date: 2/25/2004 wilhelm reich anarcho-syndicalism gut/heart/head/earth ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 12:16:02 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: Infotainment In-Reply-To: <200608221826.OAA02088@webmail5.cac.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Tue, 22 Aug 2006, ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: >When I'm reading poetry, it's the > poetry I'm working with and understanding. If I read more of a particular > artist's work, I may try to understand the poet as well, by many of the same > means -- but that's not, for me, what is at issue in the reading of any given > poem. I think you misunderstand me. Writing poetry is an act of communication. It's a language-game, to understand the poem, you are understanding what the poet has said. Full stop. As for robert frost's fences, well, it's precisely the sort of thing i'm talking about. Frost and his ilk are the most boring poetry's ecclesiastics, and they believe more strongly than any of the avant garde poets of the 20th century that the reader must come to the poet as though approaching the mysteries of orpheus. One of the reasons I like the avant gardists that I like is because there's a lot more pizzazz to what they do, their work is much more interesting. Take, for example, one of my favorite poems, Silliman's "Chinese Notebook." Part of what draws the reader's eye is the strangeness of the form, the disjunctiveness of the sentences. From there, there's some difficulty, yes, but that's the good kind of difficulty, the kind of work that you want to do because you've already been dazzled. compare that to, say, Jorie Graham's Orpheus and Eurydice and I think you can see the ecclesiastic vs. ecstatic disctinction that i'm trying to draw. ecclesiastic poetry vs. ecstatic poetry. I'm going to have to think on that one, but i think it's close to what i'm talking about with immediacy and it's occasional lack. I like it in particular because it cuts across the traditional insider/outsider division in american poetry. some days i wish it was still fashionable to write dozens of manifestoes as an unknown writer. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 15:28:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: From Michael Rothenberg: BIG BRIDGE IS BACK ONLINE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Readers, Big Bridge is back online Bloodshed in the Middle East continues STOP WAR Peace, Michael Rothenberg http://www.bigbridge.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 15:39:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: I love you Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" MIME-Version: 1.0 FUCK OFF DICK FACES!!! --=20 ___________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.graffiti.net/ Powered By Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 17:16:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: politics and poetry In-Reply-To: <54AA9B41BC35F34EAD02E660901D8A5A07ACB43C@TLRUSMNEAGMBX10.ERF.THOMSON.COM> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit ha! afraid you're right On 8/22/06 11:17 AM, "Tom W. Lewis" wrote: > would that have been an orgone box he was describing? > > tl > > > ============================================ > "if I make the box big enough, does that > mean I'm thinking outside of it?" > -- Susan R. Larson > ============================================ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] > On Behalf Of Ruth Lepson > Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 8:46 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: politics and poetry > > I believe Wilhelm Reich (not that he is the last word) wrote that art is > made not from within the box or outside of the box but in getting out of > the > box. Of course there are all kinds of poetry in all countries, each w/ > its > own greatness. > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 18:34:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "J. Michael Mollohan" Subject: Re: I love you MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tourettes flairing up again, Chris? ----- Original Message ----- From: "furniture_ press" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 4:39 PM Subject: I love you FUCK OFF DICK FACES!!! -- ___________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.graffiti.net/ Powered By Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 17:40:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tony Trigilio Organization: http://www.starve.org Subject: Re: Experimental Writing Programs - Are there any? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Also, Columbia College Chicago. Tony > Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 09:14:38 -0500 > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Sender: UB Poetics discussion group > From: Maria Damon > Subject: Re: Experimental Writing Programs - Are there any? > In-Reply-To: <20060822134618.19021.qmail@web54604.mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > > nothing as in-process as black mt, but there are programs that favor > "experimental" writing: > SUNY-buffalo (phd not mfa) > naropa institute > uc-san diego ? > brown university > california college of art > new college of california > upenn (phd) > temple u (ma not mfa) > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 17:57:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William Allegrezza Subject: last minute reminder Comments: To: rmschiff@hotmail.com, twemlow@gmail.com, Aaron Belz , abywater@colum.edu, acraig3@uic.edu, Adam Clay , Archambeau , "Bowen, Kristy" , brandihoman@hotmail.com, Chris Glomski , cwilliams@colum.edu, D Dente , DAVID PAVELICH , epelshta@uchicago.edu, Erica Bernheim , Golden , heather wilkes , Jennifer Karmin , Jeremy Bushnell , JOHN TIPTON , joshua , "Kanownik, Christine" , keeanga taylor , Kerri Sonnenberg , kilroy , krista@kristafranklin.com, "Larry O. Dean" , leag@CHARTER.NET, Lori , marci nelligan , Mark Tardi , Michael OLeary , Michelle Taransky , mIEKAL aND , Morrissey , "Odelius, Kristy Lee" , Peter O'Leary , Ray Bianchi , Samira Robinson , Shanna Compton , Simon Muench , Steve Halle , Thea Goodman , Tim Yu , ttrigilio@colum.edu, White jaclyn MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just a reminder. If you have tonight free, please come here Krista Franklin and Davis Schneiderman read at the Hyde Park Art Center at 7:00. Bill Series A ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 19:23:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: I love you In-Reply-To: <001001c6c63b$23026f10$6400a8c0@Janus> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have Tourette. If that's supposed to be a joke, I'm not at all amused. Vernon -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of J. Michael Mollohan Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 6:34 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: I love you Tourettes flairing up again, Chris? ----- Original Message ----- From: "furniture_ press" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 4:39 PM Subject: I love you FUCK OFF DICK FACES!!! -- ___________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.graffiti.net/ Powered By Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 16:47:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andy Gricevich Subject: Vulnerability and politics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I've taken "poetry" out of the subject heading, since we seem to have drifted away. Eric, Though your comments are well-intentioned, and address problems that I also see as problems, they place the discussion of vulnerability in exactly the sphere in which, it seems to me, nothing new can come of it. 1) The dialogue you include in your post is one I don't want to be involved in. For one thing--as you point out--it's unlikely to get anywhere in the form it has here. Add some kind of "openness" to it, and you're looking at one of two failures: either the conversation will consist of each person mutually giving ground on his or her assertions, leading to a compromise that's unlikely to offer any solutions to the most crucial and difficult problems motivating the conversation in the first place; or one person will make repeated concessions in an attempt to appear undogmatic--concessions meant to be taken as generous "openings"--and the other will take advantage of them ruthlessly (this happens all over the place; a particularly insidious version can be seen on talk shows, where the guest must play the host's game if the former is to get anything said, and where that game ensures that what is said will only be seen on the host's terms). Only tactical vulnerabilities seem available. I think it's crucial to distinguish what's at stake. For me it's not primarily a matter of my deepest principles, but of what I want to happen (in the examples so far, this is the cessation of large-scale violence). If the person I'm arguing with is motivated by the desire to be right (rather than by a desire for a problem to be solved), then we're not related to the same project at all, and there's no point in having the conversation. The insistence on rightness is one definite opposite to the cultivation of vulnerability. If that person is motivated by the desire for a different overall situation, then we might be getting somewhere. Say they also want the violence to stop, but their principles only require that they care about U.S. citizens. Though our principles may be incommensurable, our desires overlap. I also want U.S. citizens to be free of that. The openness then comes in when we've put the "for what" temporarily aside and begin to focus on the "how;" at this point, the willingness to make imperfect and tentative suggestions, knowing that the other can call them into question, becomes important. In any case, vulnerability would absolutely have to include giving up a primary concern for whether one comes out on top or not, in the argument and its results. 2) There's a difference between being firm about something and "having all the answers," or wanting to appear that way. I think there's a value to negation; to say "not war" is not to say, "I know exactly what should be done instead." Here one makes oneself vulnerable to the tired statement, "If you don't have a fully-articulated alternative, shut up." This is crap. For one thing, uncertainty seems far better than all-out war. For another thing, the ability to try out new solutions (for example, ensuring that everyone's basic needs are met) is often prevented by the currently operative "solution" (ex. military spending and corporate development divert resources and freeze economic possibilities). 3) The point is not to broaden everything so that everyone agrees. Turning an argument into something we can all agree on, erasing differences, is nothing new, and produces nothing new. 4) One of many things that are "the point" might be to distinguish, in practice, authority from authoritarianism. If I've thought a lot about something, studied it, committed myself to it, then why, in an argument, should I downplay that perfectly legitimate authority? As long as I don't use it to create power differentials (as a tool to win the argument), it shouldn't become authoritarian. Of course, it's not so simple; there are power dynamics that neither I nor my interlocutor put into action, and they will affect how my (or their) authority operates. "Vulnerabilism" as a way of being might involve figuring out how to defuse those--WITHOUT sacrificing knowledge and dedication to an ideology of agreement. The problem with privilege of any kind doesn't lie in its benefits--which shouldn't be jettisoned--but in the denial of its benefits to others, the consequences of it being privilege and not resource. 5) Most of this refers to the interpersonal sphere. It's becoming clear that "vulnerability" will probably mean something different when it comes to government-level politics, where it seems like interpersonal status (looking good, winning the argument) is a less powerful motivating force, since government officials have a more direct relationship to large-scale power investments (both in terms of their financial connections to power structures and their ability to affect them) than we do. 6) And then there's poetry. What vulnerability might mean in political poetry has barely begun to be parsed out. all the best, Andy FOOTNOTE: Also--to get back into direct statement--I would never have the conversation you describe because everything that's said in it is absurd. I would never say "it shows an evil side of our country." Indeed, the moralistic tone is impotent in the face of the equally vapid, "we're at war and should play to win." This is a conversation between two idiots. How about: "There's no evidence whatsoever that torture has ever worked to "extract" accurate information, and everything about it makes it unlikely that it will?" ------------------------------ Eric wrote: Andy: Vulnerability as a way of being, rather than a tactical move, perhaps... and what would that mean?... Hmmmm. In part, an ability to transcend one's politics, rethink them or suspend them--for what is "commitment" but a series of beliefs one is unwilling to question? The unwillingness to question basic political assumptions--even to recognize that one operates from such assumptions--usually means that political discussions end in shouting matches and name calling. Some people think politics is an extension of their personal morality. For them, political arguments are essentially moral ones. Others think politics is an amoral game of geopolitical advantage, and answer moral objections with practical ones designed to maximize advantage for the group with which they identify. For example: "Gitmo is wrong. It shows an evil side of our country." "But Gitmo works. It enables us to interrogate suspects without their being all lawyered up." "Innocent people are in Gitmo. They suffer." "The twentieth hijacker is also in Gitmo. Should we let him take the Fifth Amendment?" "We have certain standards to live up to." "We are also at war and should play to win." Both sides talk past each other. You can't answer a moral argument with a practical objection. You also can't answer a practical argument with a moral objection. If you do, you engage two arguments rather than one. So--disregarding the broader sense of politics--maybe the first part of "vulnerability" is examining the grounds of commitment. (I remember listening to anarchists in Tompkins Square Park in the '90s arguing over what the Anarchist Flag should be.) Think of Pushkin. He was a firebrand political poet who moderated over time. The Tsar took it on himself to be Pushkin's editor and censor, thus preventing Pushkin from dying in the Decembrist Revolt--perhaps because he recognized that Pushkin's poetry was more important the ephemeral politics. Or think of the little menage WH Auden set up in Brooklyn, where he banned discussions of politics and religion at table. The unspoken might be another form of vulnerability. Best, Eric --------------------------------- All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 19:50:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "J. Michael Mollohan" Subject: Re: I love you MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In fact, it was supposed to be funny. Sorry you don't appreciate it. I'll bet you don't care for Bobcat Goldthwaite either. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vernon Frazer" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 7:23 PM Subject: Re: I love you >I have Tourette. If that's supposed to be a joke, I'm not at all amused. > > Vernon > > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > Behalf Of J. Michael Mollohan > Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 6:34 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: I love you > > Tourettes flairing up again, Chris? > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "furniture_ press" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 4:39 PM > Subject: I love you > > > FUCK OFF DICK FACES!!! > > -- > ___________________________________________ > Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net > Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.graffiti.net/ > > > Powered By Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 20:33:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jay Dougherty Subject: Re: Interview with Lyn Lifshin In-Reply-To: <200608220240.WAA15825@webmail3.cac.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Advanced in age--ah, for some of us, yes, unfortunately. Seriously, though, we're doing our best to weed out the poetasters. That's all. Many are appreciative, thankfully, for we're most certainly not doing it for the money. ;) -----Original Message----- From: owner-poetics@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU [mailto:owner-poetics@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of ALDON L NIELSEN Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 10:40 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Interview with Lyn Lifshin a forum or advanced poets? Is this a self-policing definition, or does it just mean advanced in age? On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 20:03:44 +0000, Jay Dougherty wrote: > PoetryCircle.com is pleased to announce the publication of a new > interview with poet Lyn Lifshin. > > http://www.poetrycircle.com/index.php/topic,1109.0.html > > PoetryCircle is a forum of and for advanced poets. We encourage you to > sign up using your real name, the pen name by which you are widely > known, or the pen name by which you would like to be widely known. > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 17:56:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: David Abel/Stephen Vincent In-Reply-To: <32704434.1155930450551.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit For anybody in the neighborhood, please come. David Abel is a wonderful poet. He is down from Portland where he is a part of the Spare Room Collective - which puts on wonderful readings and other kinds of collaborations. It will fun to read and see you, too! David Abel Stephen Vincent reading at Moe's Books 2476 Telegraph Ave. Berkeley (510) 849-2087 Monday August 28th 7:30 see moesbooks.com for more information ------ End of Forwarded Message ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 20:55:17 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Truscott Subject: Change: Huisken and Mancini at Test Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Friends, Due to unfortunate circumstances beyond our control, Thursday's reading will no longer be at the Toronto Free Gallery. It will be in the gallery space above This Ain't the Rosedale Library instead. So here's the scoop: JESSE HUISKEN and DONATO MANCINI Thursday, August 24, 7:30 p.m. This Ain't the Rosedale Library 483 Church Street, Toronto Pay what you can ($5 recommended) Biographical information and poets' notes available at www.testreading.org. Sorry for the inconvenience. Hope to see you there, Mark ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 18:48:55 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jane Sprague Subject: Sarah Campbell contact info? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Does anyone have her current contact info? If so please b/c, I'm = offlist. thanks, Jane Sprague ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 21:53:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: I love you Comments: To: "J. Michael Mollohan" In-Reply-To: <001001c6c63b$23026f10$6400a8c0@Janus> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > From: "furniture_ press" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 4:39 PM > Subject: I love you > > > FUCK OFF DICK FACES!!! > Aw, Chris, we love you, too! Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 21:58:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eric Yost Subject: Re: Vulnerability and politics In-Reply-To: <20060822234750.68669.qmail@web36201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andy: How about: "There's no evidence whatsoever that torture has ever worked to "extract" accurate information, and everything about it makes it unlikely that it will?" Eric: Well, if ask that, you are playing the pragmatist's game for them. A pragmatist--as opposed to someone whose politics is built on their personal morality--can supply examples where torture has indeed "worked" to secure intelligence. Case in point is Khalid Sheik Mohammed, captured in Pakistan and sent into rendition. Information extracted by waterboarding KSM has indeed been crucial to rolling up many al-Qaeda cells. I could document this if you want, but it would be beside the nonpartisan point I am trying to make; namely that the unexamined part of our convictions is what prevents dialogue in politics. If somebody dresses up a moral judgment as a practical judgment in debate, and someone else refutes it, the moral arguer doesn't respond to the refutation as she would if someone refuted her erroneous idea of, for example, the rhyme scheme of a ghazal. We don't learn from the argument because what is being refuted is our morality, not our practical knowledge. Suppose you are presented with information establishing that torture does indeed work in many cases. Would that change your view? Or would you just shift ground and find another avenue for refuting the war on terror? As Roethke famously wrote, "we think by feeling / what is there to know?" Most people abhor the notion of torture on moral grounds and wouldn't be satisfied with knowing that it often works, or what the CIA's approved torture tactics are. It wouldn't matter. It's a moral reaction not a pragmatic one. That's why it's important to know whether people are making moral arguments or pragmatic arguments. You can't defeat a moral argument; it's grounded in a person's morality and overrules any pragmatic consideration. But people will often present their moral arguments as though they were pragmatic arguments. That's where the shouting matches start. Vulnerability, then, would be admitting at the outset, among other things, whether one's political judgments are guided by morality or by a desire to see one's group triumph, or by some specific admixture of the two. This is the center from which we write poetry, isn't it? (Vulnerability is also my windbagging through this long post, which could just as easily start a flame as stimulate a discussion. Understand I'm not writing to argue the terror war but rather to discuss how the terror war is argued.) Best, Eric ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 22:58:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "j. kuszai" Subject: New From Factory School Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed Sing a Battle Song: Poems by Women in the Weather Underground =20 Organization Weather Underground Organization 1975 Southpaw Culture Factory School, 2006 Poetry Pages: 76 Dimensions: 5.5 x 7.5 ISBN: 1-60001-990-0 Price: $12.00 Published anonymously by Women in the Weather Underground =20 Organization in 1975, these poems express solidarity with the victims =20= of U.S. imperialism--at home and abroad--at a time when the poets =20 were in hiding, labeled terrorists for their violent actions against =20 American state. The poems range in intensity, clarity, and lyricism. =20 Perhaps because they are "not professional poets," the value of =20 poetry as cultural work here shows what is possible for women writing =20= and reading in a community. The introduction makes the purpose of the =20= book clear: "This is a women=92s book. During these years we have been =20= part of the righteous struggles for the liberation of women. The =20 active and principled sisterhood of women is a crucial part of the =20 struggle to free all people. Unity among women enables us to be =20 vigilant and forceful against sexism, to encourage and strengthen =20 each other, and to develop a culture of resistance. We have worked =20 hard to build a women=92s community: developing programs around women=92s = =20 issues, growing as fighters, reclaiming the true history of the =20 people, and developing an ideology that integrates women=92s experience =20= with that of the people as a whole."=00 http://factoryschool.org/pubs/wuo/index.html Ordering information: Available from SPD: http://www.spdbooks.org/Details.asp?BookID=3D1600019900 Direct from Factory School: $10.00 http://factoryschool.org/pubs/order.html Bulk and educational discounts available.=20 =20= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 22:13:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Experimental Writing Programs - Are there any? In-Reply-To: <6B78AF61-FB1B-487F-8E7D-045C6CDEEEB8@mac.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" yeah, sorry tony and pierre i sure didn't mean my list to be exhaustive but exactly a prod to others to add... At 5:44 PM +0200 8/22/06, Pierre Joris wrote: >as does our program at SUNY Albany, if I may say so myself. > >On Aug 22, 2006, at 4:14 PM, Maria Damon wrote: > >>nothing as in-process as black mt, but there are programs that >>favor "experimental" writing: >>SUNY-buffalo (phd not mfa) >>naropa institute >>uc-san diego ? >>brown university >>california college of art >>new college of california >>upenn (phd) >>temple u (ma not mfa) >> >>At 6:46 AM -0700 8/22/06, AG Jorgensen wrote: >>>Been refamiliarizing myself with Black Mountain - the >>>exchange between artists, a kind of collaborative, >>>teachers and students as peers. Is there anything like >>>this currently in the US? Anything being developed >>>among the many excellent programs for writers and >>>artists out there. >>> >>>AGJ >>> >>>--- >>>"Our best security, our only security, is in the world of ideas, >>>and I sense a slight foreboding," he said.-- Justice Anthony >>>Kennedy >>> >>>__________________________________________________ >>>Do You Yahoo!? >>>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >>>http://mail.yahoo.com > >============================= > "Fascism should more properly >be called corporatism,since it is the >merger of state and corporate power." > - Benito Mussolini >============================= >Pierre Joris >244 Elm Street >Albany NY 12202 >home: 518 442-4071 >cell: 518 225 7123 >office: 518 442 40 85 >Paris: 01 43 54 95 13 >French cell: 06 75 43 57 10 >email: joris@albany.edu >http://pierrejoris.com >Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com >========================= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 00:12:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jUStin!katKO Subject: Re: Experimental Writing Programs - Are there any? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline "i sure didn't mean my list to be exhaustive but exactly a prod to others to add..." add Miami University (Oxford, Ohio) to these lists. Evidence for this may be found at Meshworks (see link below), where there's loads of video documentation of student/professor collaborations (and sound too if you can't stand the site of it). Particularly, see the videos of SCENE !N HERD and post_moot, the former being a performance series organized by students of the local avant scene (necessarily apres l'avant), and the latter being a festival put on collaboratively by students and professors but bringing in a veritable host of significant others to help reach those really tough spots that no one can ever seem to get to alone. Scratch. Meshworks: the Miami University Archive of Writing in Performance http://www.muohio.edu/meshworks/ sincerely, jUStin!katKO -- Critical Documents http://plantarchy.us ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 04:19:01 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tim Peterson Subject: politics and poetry In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Getting out of the orgone box? I could sign onto that definition of art-as-process. T -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Ruth Lepson Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 8:46 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: politics and poetry I believe Wilhelm Reich (not that he is the last word) wrote that art is made not from within the box or outside of the box but in getting out of the box. Of course there are all kinds of poetry in all countries, each w/ its own greatness. =20 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 17:44:08 +0200 From: Pierre Joris Subject: Re: Experimental Writing Programs - Are there any? as does our program at SUNY Albany, if I may say so myself. On Aug 22, 2006, at 4:14 PM, Maria Damon wrote: >nothing as in-process as black mt, but there are programs that =20 >favor "experimental" writing: >SUNY-buffalo (phd not mfa) >naropa institute >uc-san diego ? >brown university >california college of art >new college of california >upenn (phd) >temple u (ma not mfa) > >At 6:46 AM -0700 8/22/06, AG Jorgensen wrote: >>Been refamiliarizing myself with Black Mountain - the >>exchange between artists, a kind of collaborative, >>teachers and students as peers. Is there anything like >>this currently in the US? Anything being developed >>among the many excellent programs for writers and >>artists out there. >> >>AGJ >> >>--- >>"Our best security, our only security, is in the world of ideas, =20 >>and I sense a slight foreboding," he said.-- Justice Anthony Kennedy >> >>__________________________________________________ >>Do You Yahoo!? >>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >>http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 21:36:22 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andy Gricevich Subject: Re: Vulnerability and politics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Eric, Well, you're really only addressing the off-the-top-of- my-head footnote to my last post... and thus still limiting the scope of what vulnerability might mean to an area other than those I particularly want to focus on... but I do think you're right to say that one can't argue with morals, and certainly owning up to one's motivations is desirable. On the other hand, I don't think the field is exhausted by the alternatives you present ("guided by morality" and "by a desire to see one's group triumph"). There are a lot of other possibilities (one being the desire to save face/win, another being the belief that the consequences of one's desires will be good for almost everyone, including the people you thoroughly disagree with, others being...). I do think that discourse can change desires, and that art can do this, too, particularly by offering new and unheard-of desires ("what would it be like to want this?"). I've certainly had the experience of encountering new desires through art (from sociopolitical possibilities to the fragility of odd and quiet aesthetic constructions), desires that became motivating, at which point I realized that they brought into question some of the desires I'd had... and, since those desires were often based on ethical principles, those ethical principles also changed. I'm trying to say that there are indirect routes to morals that can sometimes make change happen where going toe-to-toe in an argument can't. And they happen in other places than art, as when new social possibilities are actualized, and the value systems of some people are shaken in the face of them. And it's true that there's an opening-oneself-up in having this discussion... but you won't get a flame war from me; I've foresworn such stuff, and don't have the time... and anyway, thinking through this stuff under scrutiny is good. cheers, Andy Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 21:58:54 -0400 From: Eric Yost Subject: Re: Vulnerability and politics Andy: How about: "There's no evidence whatsoever that torture has ever worked to "extract" accurate information, and everything about it makes it unlikely that it will?" Eric: Well, if ask that, you are playing the pragmatist's game for them. A pragmatist--as opposed to someone whose politics is built on their personal morality--can supply examples where torture has indeed "worked" to secure intelligence. Case in point is Khalid Sheik Mohammed, captured in Pakistan and sent into rendition. Information extracted by waterboarding KSM has indeed been crucial to rolling up many al-Qaeda cells. I could document this if you want, but it would be beside the nonpartisan point I am trying to make; namely that the unexamined part of our convictions is what prevents dialogue in politics. If somebody dresses up a moral judgment as a practical judgment in debate, and someone else refutes it, the moral arguer doesn't respond to the refutation as she would if someone refuted her erroneous idea of, for example, the rhyme scheme of a ghazal. We don't learn from the argument because what is being refuted is our morality, not our practical knowledge. Suppose you are presented with information establishing that torture does indeed work in many cases. Would that change your view? Or would you just shift ground and find another avenue for refuting the war on terror? As Roethke famously wrote, "we think by feeling / what is there to know?" Most people abhor the notion of torture on moral grounds and wouldn't be satisfied with knowing that it often works, or what the CIA's approved torture tactics are. It wouldn't matter. It's a moral reaction not a pragmatic one. That's why it's important to know whether people are making moral arguments or pragmatic arguments. You can't defeat a moral argument; it's grounded in a person's morality and overrules any pragmatic consideration. But people will often present their moral arguments as though they were pragmatic arguments. That's where the shouting matches start. Vulnerability, then, would be admitting at the outset, among other things, whether one's political judgments are guided by morality or by a desire to see one's group triumph, or by some specific admixture of the two. This is the center from which we write poetry, isn't it? (Vulnerability is also my windbagging through this long post, which could just as easily start a flame as stimulate a discussion. Understand I'm not writing to argue the terror war but rather to discuss how the terror war is argued.) Best, Eric --------------------------------- Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 21:37:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andy Gricevich Subject: Re: Infotainment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Jason, I like very much that set of terms, "ecclesiastical" versus "ecstatic," and your last post __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 23:19:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AG Jorgensen Subject: BLURBS FOR BOOKS AND SELF-PROMOTION In-Reply-To: <20060823043721.26775.qmail@web36205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In promoting one's work, how should blurbs be used? Is it inappropriate to include a blurb in one's bio, for example? AGJ --- "Our best security, our only security, is in the world of ideas, and I sense a slight foreboding," he said.-- Justice Anthony Kennedy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 02:28:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: like a dog returning to its vomit MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Can God build a box so big he can't think outside it? <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." --Emily Dickinson Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 01:56:48 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabrielle Welford Subject: Experim writing progs MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_VjK0TSZi7BDxWB3DQCC7AQ)" This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --Boundary_(ID_VjK0TSZi7BDxWB3DQCC7AQ) Content-id: Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT --Boundary_(ID_VjK0TSZi7BDxWB3DQCC7AQ) Content-id: Content-type: message/rfc822; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-description: Return-path: Received: (qmail 19121 invoked from network); Tue, 22 Aug 2006 19:01:54 +0000 Received: from mailscan8.acsu.buffalo.edu (128.205.7.55) by listserv.buffalo.edu with SMTP; Tue, 22 Aug 2006 19:01:54 +0000 Received: (qmail 25620 invoked from network); Tue, 22 Aug 2006 19:01:52 +0000 Received: from jem01.its.hawaii.edu (128.171.224.23) by smtp2.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; Tue, 22 Aug 2006 19:01:52 +0000 Received: from pmxchannel-daemon.jem01.its.hawaii.edu by jem01.its.hawaii.edu (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-5.04 (built Jan 24 2006)) id <0J4E0024GY6VLM00@jem01.its.hawaii.edu>; Tue, 22 Aug 2006 09:01:43 -1000 (HST) Received: from uhunix2 (uhunix2.its.hawaii.edu [128.171.44.7]) by jem01.its.hawaii.edu (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-5.04 (built Jan 24 2006)) with ESMTPS id <0J4E005F1Y6NG7V1@jem01.its.hawaii.edu>; Tue, 22 Aug 2006 09:01:35 -1000 (HST) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 09:01:35 -1000 (HST) From: Gabrielle Welford Subject: Re: Experimental Writing Programs - Are they not yet proven or available for general use. In-reply-to: <20060822164824.63112.qmail@web88107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-X-Sender: welford@uhunix2 To: UB Poetics discussion group Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Delivered-to: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296, Antispam-Engine: 2.4.0.264935, Antispam-Data: 2006.8.22.114442 X-UB-Relay: (jem01.its.hawaii.edu) X-PM-Spam-Prob: : 7% References: <20060822164824.63112.qmail@web88107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> being taught doesn't mean you can't be experimental. just read frank mccourt's book on teaching, _teacher man_. twas lovely, as is derrick jensen's _walking on water_. best, g On Tue, 22 Aug 2006, Daniel f. Bradley wrote: > are you fucking kidding =96it isn=92t experimental if its being taught > > if you want to write like someone else by all mean follow all these est= eemed suggestions > > if you want write differently > > read a shit load of weird books (different types of book not justthose = French guys in English) and start writing outside yourself > > > > > > > > maxpaul@SFSU.EDU wrote: > San Francisco State. > > > > Quoting Pierre Joris : > > > as does our program at SUNY Albany, if I may say so myself. > > > > On Aug 22, 2006, at 4:14 PM, Maria Damon wrote: > > > > > nothing as in-process as black mt, but there are programs that > > > favor "experimental" writing: > > > SUNY-buffalo (phd not mfa) > > > naropa institute > > > uc-san diego ? > > > brown university > > > california college of art > > > new college of california > > > upenn (phd) > > > temple u (ma not mfa) > > > > > > At 6:46 AM -0700 8/22/06, AG Jorgensen wrote: > > >> Been refamiliarizing myself with Black Mountain - the > > >> exchange between artists, a kind of collaborative, > > >> teachers and students as peers. Is there anything like > > >> this currently in the US? Anything being developed > > >> among the many excellent programs for writers and > > >> artists out there. > > >> > > >> AGJ > > >> > > >> --- > > >> "Our best security, our only security, is in the world of ideas, > > >> and I sense a slight foreboding," he said.-- Justice Anthony Kennedy > > >> > > >> __________________________________________________ > > >> Do You Yahoo!? > > >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > > >> http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > "Fascism should more properly > > be called corporatism,since it is the > > merger of state and corporate power." > > =97 Benito Mussolini > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > Pierre Joris > > 244 Elm Street > > Albany NY 12202 > > home: 518 442-4071 > > cell: 518 225 7123 > > office: 518 442 40 85 > > Paris: 01 43 54 95 13 > > French cell: 06 75 43 57 10 > > email: joris@albany.edu > > http://pierrejoris.com > > Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D > > > > helping to kill your literati star since 2004 > http://fhole.blogspot.com/ > > gabrielle welford welford@hawaii.edu Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.595 / Virus Database: 378 - Release Date: 2/25/2004 wilhelm reich anarcho-syndicalism gut/heart/head/earth --Boundary_(ID_VjK0TSZi7BDxWB3DQCC7AQ)-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 08:10:27 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Daniel f. Bradley" Subject: Re: Exsperm writhing progs rocks In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit sure read the books - i think i said read a lot of books (all sorts of books) poetry books pamphlets, street signs, the clouds everything i'm not anti education - i just don't trust "institutional experimental poetry" sorry but it tends to leave a bad stain on the page Gabrielle Welford wrote: Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 09:01:35 -1000 (HST) From: Gabrielle Welford Subject: Re: Experimental Writing Programs - Are they not yet proven or available for general use. To: UB Poetics discussion group being taught doesn't mean you can't be experimental. just read frank mccourt's book on teaching, _teacher man_. twas lovely, as is derrick jensen's _walking on water_. best, g On Tue, 22 Aug 2006, Daniel f. Bradley wrote: > are you fucking kidding –it isn’t experimental if its being taught > > if you want to write like someone else by all mean follow all these esteemed suggestions > > if you want write differently > > read a shit load of weird books (different types of book not justthose French guys in English) and start writing outside yourself > > > > > > > > maxpaul@SFSU.EDU wrote: > San Francisco State. > > > > Quoting Pierre Joris : > > > as does our program at SUNY Albany, if I may say so myself. > > > > On Aug 22, 2006, at 4:14 PM, Maria Damon wrote: > > > > > nothing as in-process as black mt, but there are programs that > > > favor "experimental" writing: > > > SUNY-buffalo (phd not mfa) > > > naropa institute > > > uc-san diego ? > > > brown university > > > california college of art > > > new college of california > > > upenn (phd) > > > temple u (ma not mfa) > > > > > > At 6:46 AM -0700 8/22/06, AG Jorgensen wrote: > > >> Been refamiliarizing myself with Black Mountain - the > > >> exchange between artists, a kind of collaborative, > > >> teachers and students as peers. Is there anything like > > >> this currently in the US? Anything being developed > > >> among the many excellent programs for writers and > > >> artists out there. > > >> > > >> AGJ > > >> > > >> --- > > >> "Our best security, our only security, is in the world of ideas, > > >> and I sense a slight foreboding," he said.-- Justice Anthony Kennedy > > >> > > >> __________________________________________________ > > >> Do You Yahoo!? > > >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > > >> http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > ============================= > > "Fascism should more properly > > be called corporatism,since it is the > > merger of state and corporate power." > > — Benito Mussolini > > ============================= > > Pierre Joris > > 244 Elm Street > > Albany NY 12202 > > home: 518 442-4071 > > cell: 518 225 7123 > > office: 518 442 40 85 > > Paris: 01 43 54 95 13 > > French cell: 06 75 43 57 10 > > email: joris@albany.edu > > http://pierrejoris.com > > Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com > > ========================= > > > > helping to kill your literati star since 2004 > http://fhole.blogspot.com/ > > gabrielle welford welford@hawaii.edu Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.595 / Virus Database: 378 - Release Date: 2/25/2004 wilhelm reich anarcho-syndicalism gut/heart/head/earth helping to kill your literati star since 2004 http://fhole.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 07:46:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nate Pritts Subject: H_NGM_N Announc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all - Click over to H_NGM_N to find information about our two new releases, chapbooks by Matt Hart & Erica Bernheim. http://www.h-ngm-n.com =20 SONNET by Matt Hart BETWEEN THE ROOM AND THE CITY by Erica Bernheim (Pay Pal buttons should be active soon; meantime, order a different chap then email me to tell me what you really want!) Still fresh & good - H_NGM_N #5 . Coming soon: COMBATIVES - a bimonthly print magazine focusing on the work of one poet per month. More info forthcoming.=20 All best- Nate Pritts EIC, H_NGM_N. http://www.h-ngm-n.com =20 ******************************************** Dr. Nate Pritts Northwestern State University Dept. of Language & Communication Natchitoches, LA 71497 (318) 357-5574 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 11:25:10 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: like a dog returning to its vomit In-Reply-To: <200608230628.CAA21110@webmail19.cac.psu.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit or maybe there really are an infinity of universes, as some physicists think- and maybe there are 13 dimensions but only 3 plus time that we can perceive, & maybe universes die & others come into existence--all recent speculation & maybe god doesn't think On 8/23/06 2:28 AM, "ALDON L NIELSEN" wrote: > Can God build a box so big he can't think outside it? > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > --Emily Dickinson > > Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > > Aldon L. Nielsen > Kelly Professor of American Literature > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 08:39:57 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Subject: Re: Exsperm writhing progs rocks In-Reply-To: <20060823121027.81209.qmail@web88112.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ah well ya finly gt my attn w/ this thread because of the "new improved" subject heading! have way too many thoughts about it for this forum, but Daniel's =20 point is refreshing after all the advertisements (and, yes, many of these advertisements do come from people I =20 respect, and/or love, and/or consider friends, or work at schools at which I have played the institutional role of =20 'student' and even 'teacher' or edit magazines of which I have played the institutional role of =20 "contributor" but anyhoo--i don't think there's necessarily some big either/or =20 about it... as a 'student' i was probably way more like daniel and as a 'teacher' i think i was always on the look at for 'students' =20= like daniel (sometimes I had to poke around and dig beneath layers of 'training' =20 to find them-- but they're there.... and sometimes the institutional bosses will tout freedom but still (secretly?) fear one is 'selling away the store' if one, however gently, tries to replace the role of 'authority figure' (uh, Althusserian ideological hailing!!---oops, my 'training' lingo is making a brief comeback----help! police!) with a different attitute.... Like I had teachers who genuinely believed themselves to be speaking =20 for something less institutional because when (and where) they were students, say, STEIN AND WILLIAMS =20 were considered outsiders and scorned by THEIR teachers....and, as they fight that battle, they =20= often don't see when they're older how they are repeating the same thing for their students..... and so on......ad infinitum.... but if ya can accept it as a game, and keep a distance, and realize, well, it's just buying time, and getting a teaching =20 credential (if you need a job, and are a fascinating conversationalist), and maybe make some friends, and find a community that encourages 'each to his needs, each to her abilities' etc.... well, any of these programs can be okay for awhile-- as can less 'experimental' writing programs. And, though it didn't work for me, I bet there's some who can eschew the loans or get a scholarship to work on their writing while adjuncting at the local Burger King.... Chris On Aug 23, 2006, at 5:10 AM, Daniel f. Bradley wrote: > sure read the books - i think i said read a lot of books (all sorts =20= > of books) poetry books pamphlets, street signs, the clouds everything > > > i'm not anti education - i just don't trust "institutional =20 > experimental poetry" > > sorry but it tends to leave a bad stain on the page > > > Gabrielle Welford wrote: Date: Tue, 22 Aug =20 > 2006 09:01:35 -1000 (HST) > From: Gabrielle Welford > Subject: Re: Experimental Writing Programs - Are they not yet =20 > proven or > available for general use. > To: UB Poetics discussion group > > being taught doesn't mean you can't be experimental. just read frank > mccourt's book on teaching, _teacher man_. twas lovely, as is derrick > jensen's _walking on water_. best, g > > On Tue, 22 Aug 2006, Daniel f. Bradley wrote: > >> are you fucking kidding =96it isn=92t experimental if its being = taught >> >> if you want to write like someone else by all mean follow all =20 >> these esteemed suggestions >> >> if you want write differently >> >> read a shit load of weird books (different types of book not =20 >> justthose French guys in English) and start writing outside yourself >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> maxpaul@SFSU.EDU wrote: >> San Francisco State. >> >> >> >> Quoting Pierre Joris : >> >>> as does our program at SUNY Albany, if I may say so myself. >>> >>> On Aug 22, 2006, at 4:14 PM, Maria Damon wrote: >>> >>>> nothing as in-process as black mt, but there are programs that >>>> favor "experimental" writing: >>>> SUNY-buffalo (phd not mfa) >>>> naropa institute >>>> uc-san diego ? >>>> brown university >>>> california college of art >>>> new college of california >>>> upenn (phd) >>>> temple u (ma not mfa) >>>> >>>> At 6:46 AM -0700 8/22/06, AG Jorgensen wrote: >>>>> Been refamiliarizing myself with Black Mountain - the >>>>> exchange between artists, a kind of collaborative, >>>>> teachers and students as peers. Is there anything like >>>>> this currently in the US? Anything being developed >>>>> among the many excellent programs for writers and >>>>> artists out there. >>>>> >>>>> AGJ >>>>> >>>>> --- >>>>> "Our best security, our only security, is in the world of ideas, >>>>> and I sense a slight foreboding," he said.-- Justice Anthony =20 >>>>> Kennedy >>>>> >>>>> __________________________________________________ >>>>> Do You Yahoo!? >>>>> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >>>>> http://mail.yahoo.com >>> >>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>> "Fascism should more properly >>> be called corporatism,since it is the >>> merger of state and corporate power." >>> =97 Benito Mussolini >>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>> Pierre Joris >>> 244 Elm Street >>> Albany NY 12202 >>> home: 518 442-4071 >>> cell: 518 225 7123 >>> office: 518 442 40 85 >>> Paris: 01 43 54 95 13 >>> French cell: 06 75 43 57 10 >>> email: joris@albany.edu >>> http://pierrejoris.com >>> Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com >>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D >> >> >> >> helping to kill your literati star since 2004 >> http://fhole.blogspot.com/ >> >> > > gabrielle welford > welford@hawaii.edu > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.595 / Virus Database: 378 - Release Date: 2/25/2004 > > wilhelm reich > anarcho-syndicalism > gut/heart/head/earth > > > > helping to kill your literati star since 2004 > http://fhole.blogspot.com/ > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 11:44:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Switaj Subject: Re: like a dog returning to its vomit In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Well, an omiscient god wouldn't have much need for thought as a process, I suppose. EKS http://qassandra.livejournal.com On 8/23/06, Ruth Lepson wrote: > > or maybe there really are an infinity of universes, as some physicists > think- and maybe there are 13 dimensions but only 3 plus time that we can > perceive, & maybe universes die & others come into existence--all recent > speculation > & maybe god doesn't think > > > On 8/23/06 2:28 AM, "ALDON L NIELSEN" wrote: > > > Can God build a box so big he can't think outside it? > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > "Breaking in bright Orthography . . ." > > --Emily Dickinson > > > > Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > > > > Aldon L. Nielsen > > Kelly Professor of American Literature > > The Pennsylvania State University > > 116 Burrowes > > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > > > (814) 865-0091 > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 11:58:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gwyn McVay Subject: Re: Experim writing progs In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit And secretly, tucked away in Virginia "Is For Lovers If You're Straight," a plethora of not-100%-mainstream writers -- the infamous Rod Smith; POM2 editors Susan Landers & Ethan Fugate; Jennifer Coleman, Allison Cobb, Jules Boykoff, Kaia Sand, Betsy Andrews, Heather Fuller, Jean Donnelly, CE Putnam, I could go on and on and on -- have sneaked through or around George Mason's MFA program, and I can prove it. That's what throws the monkey wrench into any discussion of MFA programs and which ones are receptive to not-100%-mainstream writing. Not only do the professors occasionally pack up and depart, but the *student* population shifts -- and the value of the right conga line of student bodies cannot be underestimated. If you are lucky enough to be in the middle of a creative ferment involving people who are as passionately obsessive as you are about the same types of issues, that kicks things up a notch for everyone. But you can't *guarantee* a surrounding creative gestalt (of whatever kind -- experimental, throwback-New Critical, whatever) in any given program; you can only guess, and pay your money. I think that's a flaw inherent in the entire MFA system. Gwyn McVay ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 09:18:25 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joseph Thomas Subject: Re: Infotainment In-Reply-To: <200608221826.OAA02088@webmail5.cac.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Or, speaking of Frost, think of the number of people who read "The Road Not Taken" as a positive, uplifting poem about doing your own thing. It's as if that "sigh" and the whole of the second stanza don't exist for most readers (particular those who use it at graduation ceremonies). Best, Joseph --- ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > It strikes me as odd to say that since modernism the > idea has been that readers > should work hard to understand the poet. When I'm > reading poetry, it's the > poetry I'm working with and understanding. If I > read more of a particular > artist's work, I may try to understand the poet as > well, by many of the same > means -- but that's not, for me, what is at issue in > the reading of any given > poem. > > But, more crucially in my view, people are all too > quick to make assumptions > about what sorts of linguistic acts require more or > less work on the part of > readers and listeners. For one quick example, given > the frequency with which I > encounter people who believe that Frost's poem means > that good fences do make > good neighbors, understanding even the seemingly > most straightforward poetry > may be more complex than we'd think at first blush. > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > "Breaking in bright > Orthography . . ." > --Emily > Dickinson > > Sailing the blogosphere at: > http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > > Aldon L. Nielsen > Kelly Professor of American Literature > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 12:38:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Re: I love you Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Experimental Writing, by Christophe Casamassima I love YOU Chapter Won. I am not troubled. David, I am not troubled. Marcus, Vernon, J.M.M. I am no= t troubled. Like talking on the cell phone: "Are you OK?" Yeah, why "You so= und Wierd" Oh, it's just my network.=20 I Love YOU chapter who. Get a prognosis, eat once a throw pillow, Marcus. You are very kind and I a= ppreciate your invitation. You know I am happy, but don't let it spill. I love YOU. BOC > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marcus Bales" > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: I love you > Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 21:53:32 -0400 >=20 >=20 > > From: "furniture_ press" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 4:39 PM > > Subject: I love you > > > > > > FUCK OFF DICK FACES!!! > > >=20 > Aw, Chris, we love you, too! >=20 > Marcus > Christophe Casamassima Professor Emiritus, Modern Languages & Philology University of Jamaica Avenue, Queens, N.Y. --=20 ___________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.graffiti.net/ Powered By Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 12:39:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Re: I love you Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 I told my wife yesterday I don't write no blogs 'cause it's, something. I f= orget, and I don't think she agreed with me. Franz Liszt > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marcus Bales" > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: I love you > Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 21:53:32 -0400 >=20 >=20 > > From: "furniture_ press" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 4:39 PM > > Subject: I love you > > > > > > FUCK OFF DICK FACES!!! > > >=20 > Aw, Chris, we love you, too! >=20 > Marcus > Christophe Casamassima Professor Emiritus, Modern Languages & Philology University of Jamaica Avenue, Queens, N.Y. --=20 ___________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.graffiti.net/ Powered By Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 18:45:22 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Roger Day Subject: Re: I love you In-Reply-To: <20060822203908.9B93713EF0@ws5-9.us4.outblaze.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I don't think anyone called Dick Faces is subscribed. Thankyou, thankyou. try the chicken. I'll be here all week. Roger On 8/22/06, furniture_ press wrote: > FUCK OFF DICK FACES!!! > > -- > ___________________________________________ > Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net > Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.graffiti.net/ > > > Powered By Outblaze > -- http://www.badstep.net/ http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ "From the waist downwards, Bloodnok was tattooed with a pair of false legs... facing the wrong way." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 13:56:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Coffey Subject: Re: I love you In-Reply-To: <20060822203908.9B93713EF0@ws5-9.us4.outblaze.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline It's funny... I just got past the "dickface" section of Jonathan Lethem's "Gun, with Occasional Music" when I went to check my email. Stop creepin' round my backsteps. On 8/22/06, furniture_ press wrote: > FUCK OFF DICK FACES!!! > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 15:09:07 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eileen Tabios Subject: Galatea Resurrects, #3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear All, A gratuitously-published photo of my beloved dogs...and, We (Moi and dawgs) are pleased to announce the latest issue of=20 GALATEA RESURRECTS, #3 (A Poetry Engagement)=20 at http://galatearesurrection3.blogspot.com Best, Eileen Tabios +++++ GALATEA RESURRECTS, #3 CONTENTS: EDITOR'S INTRODUCTION From Eileen Tabios NEW REVIEWS David Goldstein reviews SYMBIOSIS by Barbara Guest and Laurie Reid Brandon Downing reviews CAN ARBOREAL KNOTWORK HELP BLACKBURN OUT OF FREGE'S=20 ABYSS? by Boyd Spahr=20 Crag Hill reviews EYE AGAINST EYE by Forrest Gander=20 Abigail Licad reviews HERE, BULLET by Brian Turner=20 David Baptiste-Chirot reviews POETRY AFTER AUSCHWITZ by Kent Johnson Anna Eyre reviews CORNSTARCH FIGURINE by Elizabeth Treadwell=20 Eileen Tabios reviews INSECT COUNTRY (A) by Sawako Nakayasu Allen Bramhall reviews BOXD TRANSISTOR by Jon Leon=20 Allen Bramhall reviews NOT EVEN DOGS by Ernesto Priego=20 Craig Perez reviews PACIFIC POSTMODERN by Rob Wilson=20 Mary Jo Malo reviews SING ME ONE SONG OF EVOLUTION by Vernon Frazer Phil Primeau reviews PIECES OF THE SKY by Greg Fuchs=20 John Bloomberg-Rissman reviews EROSION'S PULL by Maureen Owen=20 J. Csida reviews EROSION'S PULL by Maureen Owen=20 Andrew McCarron reviews WHERE X MARKS THE SPOT by Bill Zavatsky Eileen Tabios reviews SLIP by Chris Stackhouse=20 Ivy Alvarez reviews chaps: LEARNING THE LANGUAGE by Kate Greenstreet;=20 GROUNDED by George Held; AMERICAN MASTER by Raymond L. Bianchi; SCENES FROM=20= THE=20 SARAGOSSA MANUSCRIPT by Micah Ballard; 9th & OCEAN by Kevin Opsteda; and LAS= T WE=20 SPOKE by Sunnlyn Thibodeaux Susana Gardner reviews 20/20 YIELDING by Sunnlyn Thibodeaux Allen Bramhall reviews OPENING AND CLOSING NUMBERS by Anny Ballardini Carlos Hiraldo reviews WATERMARK by Jacquelyn Pope=20 Janet Hamill reviews FEMME DU MONDE by Patricia Spears Jones=20 Ernesto Priego reviews THE ACHING VICINITIES by Jean Vengua Allen Bramhall reviews FILM POEMS by Mark Lamoreaux=20 Ann E. Michaels reviews TEN DEGREES ABOVE ZERO by Elizabeth Raby and MORNING= =20 ON CANAL STREET by Paul Martin=20 Craig Perez reviews UNRAVELLING WORDS & THE WEAVING OF WATER by Cecilia=20 Vicuna, Trans. by Eliot Winberger and Suzanne Jill Levine Jeffrey Cyphers Wright reviews ING GRISH by John Yau and Thomas Nozkowski Eileen Tabios reviews IN THE WEAVER=E2=80=99S VALLEY by William Allegrezza Melissa Weinstein reviews AFTER THE SINEWS by Patrick Dunagan=20 Fionna Doney Simmonds reviews THE POET SLAVE OF CUBA (A BIOGRAPHY OF JUAN=20 FRANCISCO MANZANO) by Margarita Engle=20 Julie R. Enszer reviews THE COUNTESS OF FLATBROKE by Mary Meriam Jon Leon reviews chaps: GUITAR SMASH by Brian Howe; LYRIC POETRY AFTER=20 AUSCHWITZ by Kent Johnson; and THRENODY by Tom Clark Julie R. Enszer reviews BEGGARS AT THE WALL by Rochelle Ratner Cynthia Arrieu-King reviews SECRET ASIAN MAN by Nick Carbo=20 Thomas Fink reviews I LOVE ARTISTS: NEW AND SELECTED POEMS by Mei-mei=20 Berssenbrugge=20 Reme Grefalda reviews PUTI/WHITE by Patria Rivera Fionna Doney Simmonds reviews RUMMY PARK by Rebecca Lu Kiernan Allen Bramhall reviews A NATURAL HISTORY OF SUCHNESS by Stephen Ellis Laurel Johnson reviews OFFICIAL VERSIONS by Mark Pawlak=20 William Allegrezza reviews KLANG by Andrew Lundwall=20 Laura Stamps reviews ANOTHER WOMAN WHO LOOKS LIKE ME by Lyn Lifshin Corinne Robins reviews A PANIC THAT CAN STILL COME UPON ME by Peter Gizzi=20 FEATURED POET: Eileen Tabios presents David Baptiste-Chirot FROM OFFLINE TO ONLINE: REPRINTED REVIEWS: Sandy McIntosh offers a memoir with reviews of LIVING IS WHAT I WANTED by=20 David Ignatow as well as SELECTED SHORTER POEMS and THE TABLETS, both by Arm= and=20 Schwerner=20 Mark Lamoreaux reviews STEAM by Sandra Simonds=20 Allen Gaborro reviews NOLI ME TANGERE by Jose Rizal=20 Timothy Yu reviews ANTHROPY by Ray Hsu=20 Dana Teen Lomax reviews A READING SPICER AND 18 SONNET by Beverly Dahlen Steve Potter reviews OXBOW KAZOO by John Olson=20 Allen Gaborro reviews the 8TH WONDER poetry performance troupe=20 FEATURE ARTICLE: Sandy McIntosh "reviews" OTIOSE WARTS by Argol Karvarkian BACK COVER: An example of the Underlying Sensibility to Galatea Resurrects ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 15:41:18 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Larissa Shmailo Subject: Holman, Sapphire, Cabico, Sheeler, Verga, Shmailo & MUSIC: SPIRIT OF HOWL! FEST Comments: To: newcenturybooking@yahoo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 SPIRIT OF HOWL! FEST=20 3 EVENTS! 2 POETRY EVENTS AND 1 MUSICAL EVENT=20 CONTACT:EKAYNI CHAMBERLIN _ekayani2002@yahoo.com_=20 (mailto:ekayani2002@yahoo.com) (212) 475-6547=20 BACK UP: Mike McHugh _newcenturybooking@yahoo.com_=20 (mailto:newcenturybooking@yahoo.com) (212) 561-9789=20 WHEN: SATURDAY, SEPTEMBER 16 FROM 5-10 PM=20 WHERE: SUTRA LOUNGE _http://www.sutranyc.com_ (http://www.sutranyc.com/) =20= =20 16 1ST AVE=20 (BET. HOUSTON & FIRST ST) =20 PH: (212) 677 9477 =20 $8 ADMISSION GOOD FOR ALL THREE EVENTS=20 ALSO: THERESA SAREO AT CRASH MANSION 7-10PM AND AFTERPARTY 199 BOWERY $10=20 ADDITIONAL COVER=20 1. SAT 9/16 7:30 =E2=80=93 10:00: SLIDING SCALE POETRY PRESENTS: =20 REGIE CABICO-Regie has appeared on MTV=E2=80=99s Def Poetry Jam, PBS=E2=80= =99s In the Life,=20 and in over 30 anthologies. =20 http://www.globaltalentassoc.com/site/clients/cabico.htm=20 ANNE ELLIOT:-Anne is a fiction writer/poet/ ukulelist/ feral cat tamer, and= =20 author of the reknowned _http://Assbackwords.blogsite.com_=20 (http://assbackwords.blogsite.com/) .=20 BOB HOLMAN- Recently dubbed a member of the "Poetry Pantheon" by N.Y Times=20= =20 Magazine. Holman has been crowned "Poetry Czar" (Village Voice), "Dean of=20 the Scene" (Seventeen), and this generation's Ezra Pound(San Francisco=20 Poetry Flash). http://www.bowerypoetry.com=20 SAPPHIRE- Sapphire's books include American Dreams, Black Wings & Blind=20 Angels, and Push; NEA chairman John Frohnmayer was fired when he defended=20= her=20 work. http://Amazon.com. =20 JACKIE SHEELER- Recently featured in the New York Times, poet laureate of=20 Riker=E2=80=99s Island, Jackie has two books and one CD out, is the talk in= Talk=20 Engine, and has hosted a weekly reading for the last seven years at Pink Po= nyWest. =20 http://www.poetz.com=20 LARISSA SHMAILO-Larissa has a CD, =E2=80=9CThe No-Net World=E2=80=9D, and t= eaches the=20 class Publish, Perform, or Perish! http://larissashmailo.blogspot.com=20 HAL SIROWITZ- Hal is former Poet Laureate of Queens, reads Brooklyn work. =20 halsirowitz@yahoo.com=20 ANGELO VERGA- Angelo is a poet, teacher, editor, curator of literary=20 events, five collections of poetry, currently engaged in "deep research"=20= for a=20 book of love poems.=20 MC CHOCOLATE WATERS- Chocolate is a pioneer performance artist, director of= =20 Eggplant Publications and bon vivant. _http://www.chocolatewaters.com_=20 (http://www.chocolatewaters.com/) =20 2. MIKE AMERICA AND THE FREE WORLD Acoustic music TIME 5-10 PM with:=20 5 PM- ADRIENNE NIGHTINGALE- "folk singer songwriter based in Brooklyn, NY.= =20 She holds tight reign on the raw emotional material in her songwriting...=20 _http://www.myspace.com/AdrienneMusic_ (http://www.myspace.com/AdrienneMusic= ) =20 5:30-LITTLE EMBERS (feat. Theresa Hoffman) "Little Embers music is a dark=20= =20 swirling revelation ... her new songs like "Radio" and the surreal "Curious=20= =20 Little Clowns" have the mystical poetic feel of sixties Dylan. Her voice is=20 dark and sweet and it draws you in.Her dark, caustic perspective on reality= has=20 a world weariness and innate wisdom that is quite compelling" =E2=80=93 McQ= =20 http://www.myspace.com/littleembers=20 6-TALK ENGINE feat. JACKIE SHEELER=20 Talk Engine is rock & roll's answer to hip-hop. "if you=E2=80=99re not danc= ing at=20 the end of their set it's cause you're flying."-BOB HOLMAN When we do quiet= er=20 sets, mostly based on spoken word, the material is "tough, savvy and true,"= =20 -Thomas Lux. http://www.myspace.com/talkengine=20 6:30-TAMARA HEY-Referred to as "One of NYC's little treasures=E2=80=9D, nati= ve New=20 Yorker Tamara Hey aligns heart & soul with a natural, unaffected quirkiness= &=20 originality in every song. =20 http://www.tamarahey.com=20 7-NED MASSEY-The late, great, talent scout John Hammond Sr. called Ned: "Th= e=20 best thing I've seen since Bruce (Springsteen) " =E2=80=93 McQ . =20 http://www.nedmassey.com/=20 7:30-KAREN Maria Schleifer & WALTER Finley's NEW DUO =E2=80=93=20 'This feisty songstress was a child star in the title role of 'Annie' on=20 Broadway. She still has that natural curly hair and a set of powerful pipes= . The=20 new songs slated for her upcoming second CD are strong.' -McQ - =20 http://www.curlykaren.com & _http://www.walterfinley.com_=20 (http://www.walterfinley.com/) =20 8 PM-CASEY CYR - "Casey Cyr is a seer. A visionary poet and singer=20 songwriter in the beat tradition. Beat as in beatific. Her Buddist faith in= fuses her=20 work and her music and art has a quality of timeless illumination. Her song= =20 "Phantom Moon" is a classic. No wonder the legendary David Amram has called= =20 her "the female Dylan." =E2=80=93McQ http://www.caseycyr.com=20 8:30 PM -ALICE BIERHORST =E2=80=93 (of RockDove) "Her chameleon vocals chang= e =20 character with each distinctly crafted song bringing to mind the photography= of =20 Cindy Sherman...beautifully weird pop that reminds us that less is more."=20= -=20 Performing Songwriter _http://www.alicebierhorst.com_=20 (http://www.alicebierhorst.com/) . =20 9 PM-McQ as MIKE AMERICA -"A great knack for song stylization and writing"=20= =20 Anne Leighton, 'The Music Paper' _http://www.myspace.com/newcentury_=20 (http://www.myspace.com/newcentury) 9:30 PM-NOM de PLUME feat. SARA GENN=20= "a=20 chamber butter bandaid for your broken heart"Sara Genn: voice & rhodes guit= ar &=20 Keith Witty on double bass=20 _http://www.myspace.com/songsforlonging_=20 (http://www.myspace.com/songsforlonging) =20 3. =E2=80=9CFREE WORLD MICROPHONE=E2=80=9D POETRY EVENT TIME: 5-7 PM pre= sented by ART=20 HOUSE PRODUCTIONS _http://www.arthouseproductions.org_=20 (http://www.arthouseproductions.org/) DOWNSTAIRS at SUTRA LOUNGE 16 First=20= Avenue NYC 10009=20 MC CHRISTINE GOODMAN is Founder/Director of Art House Productions, a=20 multimedia arts organization presenting THE ART HOUSE (Jersey City=E2=80= =99s longest running=20 poetry series), original theater pieces, a television show for JC and NYC,=20 live music events, JC Fridays (a seasonal, citywide celebration of the arts= ),=20 and publications featuring local writers works. She also serves as an Arts= =20 Commissioner for the City of Jersey City. =20 _http://www.christine-goodman.com_ (http://www.christine-goodman.com/) & =20 http://www.myspace.com/christinegoodman=20 GARLAND L. THOMPSON, JR. - Poet, Writer, Actor, Producer, Director, and=20 Playwright, Garland established the Annual West Coast Championship Poetry S= lam=20 now in it=E2=80=99s 9th season after moving to Monterey, Ca in 1998. =20 _http://www.westcoastslam.com_ (http://www.westcoastslam.com/) This yearly= rite of passage=20 takes place at the breathtakingly beautiful Henry Miller Library in Big Sur= & =20 has become one of the largest events of it=E2=80=99s kind, hosting slam tea= ms from=20 around the country for a chance to win $2000.00 in cash prizes. =20 PATRICIA SMITH - Award-winning poet, playwright, journalist and performer,=20 Patricia Smith is a renaissance artist of undeniable and unmistakable=20 signature. She is four-time national individual slam champion. =20 http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps/poets/s_z/p_smith/about.htm.www.louderarts.= co m/poets/smith/=20 SURVIVOR- is a four-time semi-finalist in the Nuyorican slams. John Blake=20 (aka Survivor) was born addicted to heroin and raised on the lower east sid= e of=20 Manhattan, the youngest of 9 children. After losing his entire family to=20 addiction and AIDS, he was able to give up a 20 year addiction for poetry= =20 after seeing a segment of Russell Simmons' Def Poetry on HBO. =20 http://www.myspace.com/survivor=20 DUJUANA SHARESE- is an eight-time slam champion, & member of the Orlando=20 Slam team 2002. D. Sharese has performed across the nation, in the 2006=20 Heritage Pride Rally, NYC, and serves as Artistic Director for the Cypher M= ovement=20 open art and poetry slam. http://www.cyphermovement.com=20 CASEY CYR=E2=80=99s lyrical poetry & haunting melodies from her debut CD "P= hantom=20 Moon" reflect the unconscious realm of magic. Casey co-founded & produced =20= the=20 NY Underground Music & Poetry Festival in 2000, performed in CMJ 2000- 02,=20 and curated Old Angel Midnight Tribute to Jack Kerouac & David Amram for H= OWL!=20 Fest 2004. Cyr=E2=80=99s work has been published by Hozomeen Press, Pop Ro= cket=20 Records, Mystic Discs & Calque Cinema. She is featured on "Hozomeen JAM", a= =20 spoken word & music CD with David Amram, Ron Whitehead & Lee Ranaldo.=20 _http://www.caseycyr.com_ (http://www.caseycyr.com/) =20 MIKE MCHUGH - aka MIKE AMERICA is a poet, singer/songwriter and community=20 leader who has been booking emerging musical acts and performing on the=20 downtown New York music scene for more than two decades. Tonight he perfor= ms songs=20 and poems from his rock opera 'Son Of A Nation' a poetic prophesy as=20 conceived by Walt Whitman. http://www.myspace.com/newcentury=20 EKAYANI - singer, songwriter, music journalist & front woman for the=20 jazzy/world/ spoken word musical group =E2=80=9CEkayani and the Healing Ban= d=E2=80=9D, she is an=20 ISC & Billboard World Song Contest Honoree' 05, New Century People's Choice= =20 Awards Winner in '06 for her # 1 single =E2=80=9CLa Raihna=E2=80=9D in the=20= R&B and smooth jazz =20 categories from her award winning album FULL LENGTH. _http://www.ekayani.net= _=20 (http://www.ekayani.net/) =20 ALSO-THERESA SAREO AT CRASH MANSION 199 BOWERY 7- $10 COVER AND AFTERPARTY ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 16:29:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eric Yost Subject: Re: Vulnerability and politics In-Reply-To: <20060823043622.46365.qmail@web36215.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andy: ...still limiting the scope of what vulnerability might mean to an area other than those I particularly want to focus on... Here's a notion. People spend a lot more time defending their symbolic idea of themselves than they spend defending their actual persons. Examples of a symbolic idea of self include, "I'm the kind of person who..." or "I'm not the kind of person who..." This becomes "I'm the kind of poet who" does/doesn't write in forms, revise, champion the oppressed in my poems, oppose the Bush administration, give readings, etc. Vulnerability is, in part, refusing to be satisfied with a limiting symbolic self, poetic or otherwise. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 17:31:05 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mike Luster Subject: Charlie Vermont? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anyone have a current email address for Charlie Vermont? Mike Luster ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 14:52:17 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: gfrym@EARTHLINK.NET Subject: Re: Charlie Vermont? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cvermont@centurytel.net he's in Arkansas Best, Gloria Frym ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Luster" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 2:31 PM Subject: Charlie Vermont? > Anyone have a current email address for Charlie Vermont? > > Mike Luster > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 17:05:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Lunday Subject: Journal Indexes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Can anyone recommend online (or print) indexes for poetry published in journals? What the libraries near me subscribe to keeps changing (generally by cutting what's available), and I haven't searched in a while -- so, can't remember what's good for such a search... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 01:14:41 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: P Ganick Subject: NEW CHAPBOOKS & ACCEPTING SUBMISSIONS some new offerings of chapbooks and the start of a backlist. small chapbook project [s-c-p] will print 8 more copies of the first and second series chapbooks, and will do the same with the third when they are near to being sold out. the texts are exciting literature and should be read by a wider circle of readers. NEW third series: Mary Rising Higgins, Borderlining Jim Leftwich, Art Bang Jukka-Pekka Kervinen, paragraphs RECENT second series: Michael Basinski, Invadurs Noah Eli Gordon, twenty ruptored paragraphs from a perfectly functional book Sheila E Murphy, A Younger Presence in the House J M Bennett, Shoulder Cream first series: Peter Ganick, mainstay " sailing in six four " we walk sleepily forward " eminence: treble clef chapbooks are $6 each, plus $2 shippng. no matter how many. carefully wrapped MEDIA MAIL only. Canada and international $4 shipping slow rate, $8 fast rate, no matter how many. please send check [US funds only] to: Peter Ganick small chapbook press 45 Ravenwood Road West Hartford CT 06107 please send submissions to above address. no submissions to email address. at least three manuscripts will be selected. eventual page size: 8.5"x5.5", max forty pages, total. please direct inquiries only to . also, this press is supported by sales and dona- tions, purchases and donations are gratefully accepted, and may be rewarded by some rare chapbooks in a previous series. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 21:17:05 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Crockett Subject: calling for women's work, and audio\visual content MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hello, I'm Jesse, editor at listenlight.net. The upcoming issue 02 will be strong, tho presently it lacks work by women. And so, first, women in kind & urgency are invited to send work for issue 02, to give this small journal a shove to gather its own momentum. Next, a call for a range of audio and visual content: visual poetry, graphic art, recorded readings, and photography. thank you and all best --jwc ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 19:41:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jane Sprague Subject: Palm Press News MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Friends of Palm Press, It's been a busy summer at Palm Press and there are many things to be = excited about, especially the recent participation of several people in = the evolving project of the press as new authors, designers, and = editorial collaborators. Palm will release 6 new books this fall = including 5 chapbooks (one with audio CD) and our second perfectbound = book; we're making plans to convene another session of the conference = Small Press Culture Workers as a site-specific event in the desert next = spring; we're working on the project of uploading several Palm = chapbooks, reviews of titles, audio files of our writers and video files = of what we do here in Long Beach and beyond. We also have plans to = manifest some of the ideas investigated in Mark Nowak's essay = "Neoliberalism, Collective Action and the American MFA Industry" from = his 2005 Palm Press chapbook, Workers of the Word, Unite and Fight!, as = a community-based peer-to-peer literacy exchange teaching and learning = network, The Hedge School. But for now, we are very excited about our new website which has just = gone live today. So we figured we'd better tell you about it! Palm Press' new website was designed by LA-based writer Allison Carter. = Check it out at www.palmpress.org and stay tuned for more information... We hope that this finds you well, writing, reading and enjoying the last = few weeks of summer.=20 On behalf of Palm Press, Jane Sprague, Editor ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 21:32:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AG Jorgensen Subject: Poetry Books and Promotion In-Reply-To: <20060823061943.31886.qmail@web54607.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In promoting one's work, how should blurbs be used? Is it inappropriate to include a blurb in one's bio, for example? AGJ --- "Our best security, our only security, is in the world of ideas, and I sense a slight foreboding," he said.-- Justice Anthony Kennedy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 22:08:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andy Gricevich Subject: Re: Vulnerability and politics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Eric, That's a good notion. cheers, Andy --------------------------------- All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 00:25:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Crockett Subject: call for women's work.. MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT i replied to a question but it seems it didn't get back to the list, which is good, i rarely get my words altogether right the first time.. "the work i'm committed to right now has a range that could blend well with most styles; while imaginative and complex, the average tone doesn't make terribly difficult inversions" who knows.. with the right music you could weep. Dear Harriet, I love your poem. thanks. -jwc ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 02:36:10 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: Journal Indexes Comments: To: wryting-l@listserv.wvu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit here's a scenario what do you all think inline journal accepts my pome nice enough to question possibly typos smart enough to ask if they were intentional or not then i make corrections then he says i'm in then he sends a 2 page contract i give up all rights to the poem for at least one year after which if i take poem back it will not be included in a possible anthology as opposed to whether i let him keep it indefinitely he is notpaying me but wants exclusivity here's a kicker point 10 of contract states if i publish poem anywhere else in the world i have to pay editor 100$ (that'sof course if he found out HA) point 12 stated that if i wanted to remove the pome from his site before the year was up i'd have to pay him 50 bucks and upon recepit of said $ he'd remove it after 30 days the contract has atotal of 17 points of which i must agree to sign and return in order to get pome published what should i doo(d0) what would you do? poets being martyrs should i agree to this? actually after questioning him on that he got anoyed as did those i asked why we didn't share the door and told me he loved pome thought i wass well esrablishe but rathe not work with me if this discussion ensues on the list i will paste in his responses to my queries...publisher ha right to publish it anywhere get it translated etc maybe to emasculate the auther as well yours a concerned poemer ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 01:55:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Crockett Subject: Re: call for work MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT i'm a bit confused, just changed from html digest to regular, in order to respond to individual postings; haven't learned how to do this. little help? about the statement \ quotation, i'm sure it seems generic. i do want to read difficult, nuanced inversions of tone, syntax, and meaning. i welcome the subtle contrarian. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 03:21:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Fw: Re: Fw: Re: (for your publication, from nyc) example you be the judge Comments: To: wryting-l@listserv.wvu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit dear list here is one editors answer deleted publication and his name Steve, I think you're a good poet, well-established, and respected, but I'm not going to work with you through blank. You basically seem to expect me to accept crap end of the deal, work at length for free and then pay you somehow even if I earn a minor pittance years from now. I don't think you understand publishing, how little money is actually profit, and how poets are rarely paid for their work. As for relinquishing the fee for retrieval of rights, I won't do it. I have to have rights to the poem to publish it. If you commit the poem to me, and then publish it elsewhere, your commitment to me means nothing. That fee is my way of saying that I have it exclusively for at least a year. Asking to have your cake and eat it too is asking too much from me. I am withdrawing my acceptance of your poem, because you did not follow my submission guidelines, you sent me a careless submission with typos in it -- I showed you the respect of reading it anyway -- and now expect me to go above any beyond to accommodate your wants. It even takes me a while to read you e-mails since you don't use punctuation in anything you write. I'm sure you'll do fine in the future, but I'm not interested in working with you. Good luck. blank ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: skyplums@juno.com Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 03:08:23 -0400 >thanks blank for your input did blank get this contract too >was not an accusation i made but a query emails always seem to change the >tone of what one says >i'm in infinite zines and on many websites never underwent this before > >this is kind of contract is new to me as is the pome which i have sent >as to modifications in contract it would not be to your liking they >would be all that stuff about 100 bucks here and 50 there and your owning >the rights to my piece >especially without me being paid >i don't expect you to work for free unless it's by choice or agreement >but neither should you the expect me to >if you incur these damages on me if i want to send my work elsewhere >if you insist on no sumutaneous submission for at least a year that's >fine >but without all those money hassles that's what got me > ___________________________________________________________ $0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Signup at www.doteasy.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 08:09:31 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kevin thurston Subject: Re: Journal Indexes In-Reply-To: <20060824.023614.-253947.29.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline it isn't like you either have this poem published in this venue or the poem ceases to exist. you have a choice. if you are uncomfortable, don't do it. On 8/24/06, Steve Dalachinsky wrote: > > here's a scenario > what do you all think > inline journal accepts my pome > nice enough to question possibly typos > smart enough to ask if they were intentional or not > then i make corrections > then he says i'm in > then he sends a 2 page contract > > i give up all rights to the poem for at least one year after which if i > take poem back > it will not be included in a possible anthology > as opposed to whether i let him keep it indefinitely > he is notpaying me but wants exclusivity > here's a kicker point 10 of contract states > if i publish poem anywhere else in the world i have to pay editor 100$ > (that'sof course if he found out HA) > > point 12 stated that if i wanted to remove the pome from his site before > the year > was up i'd have to pay him 50 bucks and upon recepit of said $ > he'd remove it after 30 days > > the contract has atotal of 17 points of which i must agree to sign and > return > in order to get pome published what should i doo(d0) what > would you do? poets being martyrs should i agree to this? > actually after questioning him on that he got anoyed as did those i asked > why > we didn't share the door and told me he loved pome thought i wass well > esrablishe but rathe not work with me if this discussion ensues on the > list i will > paste in his responses to my queries...publisher ha right to publish it > anywhere get it translated etc maybe to emasculate the auther as well > > yours a concerned poemer > -- http://fuckinglies.blogspot.com http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/thepixelplus/nhdoublewide.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 08:23:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: Journal Indexes In-Reply-To: <20060824.023614.-253947.29.skyplums@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tell 'im put 'is contract where the sun don't shine. Hal CLO ED FOR REN VATION Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@gmail.com halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Aug 24, 2006, at 1:36 AM, Steve Dalachinsky wrote: > here's a scenario > what do you all think > inline journal accepts my pome > nice enough to question possibly typos > smart enough to ask if they were intentional or not > then i make corrections > then he says i'm in > then he sends a 2 page contract > > i give up all rights to the poem for at least one year after which > if i > take poem back > it will not be included in a possible anthology > as opposed to whether i let him keep it indefinitely > he is notpaying me but wants exclusivity > here's a kicker point 10 of contract states > if i publish poem anywhere else in the world i have to pay editor 100$ > (that'sof course if he found out HA) > > point 12 stated that if i wanted to remove the pome from his site > before > the year > was up i'd have to pay him 50 bucks and upon recepit of said $ > he'd remove it after 30 days > > the contract has atotal of 17 points of which i must agree to > sign and > return > in order to get pome published what should i doo(d0) what > would you do? poets being martyrs should i agree to this? > actually after questioning him on that he got anoyed as did those i > asked > why > we didn't share the door and told me he loved pome thought i wass well > esrablishe but rathe not work with me if this discussion ensues on the > list i will > paste in his responses to my queries...publisher ha right to > publish it > anywhere get it translated etc maybe to emasculate the auther as well > > yours a concerned poemer ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 09:25:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: Re: Fw: Re: (for your publication, from nyc) example you be the judge In-Reply-To: <20060824.032656.-258783.9.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable the editor sounds like a two-timing jackass... that's my first reaction, anyway... I've been in publishing for about 10 years and have never heard such a petulant, excuse-laden response to an author, even if there is a kernel of truth in it re: operational costs vs. potential returns on product. you scare authors away if you cop this kind of attitude.=20 a follow-up question: how much could you change a poem to get it out of the kind of contractual restrictions your editor wanted to lay on you? I use the platform of my blog (http://anchovyorchestra.blogspot.com/) for works in progress; i.e., I work through a lot of what I put up there after it's been put up there.=20 is that considered playing dirty ball? should a work that's published/posted be the final version? and if it's not final, then can you get away with republishing with Y publisher an altered version of the piece you've already submitted to X publisher? =20 the more I write the more immoral this sounds to me... -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Steve Dalachinsky Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 2:21 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Fw: Re: Fw: Re: (for your publication, from nyc) example you be the judge dear list here is one editors answer deleted publication and his name Steve, I think you're a good poet, well-established, and respected, but I'm not going to work with you through blank. You basically seem to expect me to accept crap end of the deal, work at length for free and then pay you somehow even if I earn a minor pittance years from now. I don't think you understand publishing, how little money is actually profit, and how poets are rarely paid for their work.=20 As for relinquishing the fee for retrieval of rights, I won't do it. I have to have rights to the poem to publish it. If you commit the poem to me, and then publish it elsewhere, your commitment to me means nothing. That fee is my way of saying that I have it exclusively for at least a year. Asking to have your cake and eat it too is asking too much from me. I am withdrawing my acceptance of your poem, because you did not follow my submission guidelines, you sent me a careless submission with typos in it -- I showed you the respect of reading it anyway -- and now expect me to go above any beyond to accommodate your wants. It even takes me a while to read you e-mails since you don't use punctuation in anything you write. I'm sure you'll do fine in the future, but I'm not interested in working with you. Good luck. blank ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: skyplums@juno.com Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 03:08:23 -0400 >thanks blank for your input did blank get this contract too >was not an accusation i made but a query emails always seem to change the >tone of what one says >i'm in infinite zines and on many websites never underwent this before > >this is kind of contract is new to me as is the pome which i have sent=20 >as to modifications in contract it would not be to your liking they >would be all that stuff about 100 bucks here and 50 there and your owning >the rights to my piece=20 >especially without me being paid >i don't expect you to work for free unless it's by choice or agreement >but neither should you the expect me to >if you incur these damages on me if i want to send my work elsewhere >if you insist on no sumutaneous submission for at least a year that's >fine >but without all those money hassles that's what got me > ___________________________________________________________ $0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Signup at www.doteasy.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 10:44:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Dr. Herbert Stern" Subject: unsubscribe In-Reply-To: <54AA9B41BC35F34EAD02E660901D8A5A07ACB464@TLRUSMNEAGMBX10.ERF.THOMSON.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Thank you. bert stern > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 12:13:51 -0400 Reply-To: az421@freenet.carleton.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: [max@maxmiddle.com: CALL FOR SUBMISSIONS Puddle leaflets] MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Call for Submissions Puddle leaflet series Ideally seeking combinations of verse & visual poetry (yes... in whatever form such combinations may occur). Submissions of work resembling simply either ‘linear’ or visual poetry are also welcome! Printing format: one sheet of 8.5 x 11" paper, one or both sides, black & white. Please email poetry in the body of message or as .jpg, .doc, .wpd to . Mail to: Griddle Grin, 377, 532 Montreal Road, Ottawa, ON, Canada K1K 4R4 Puddle leaflets published to date have been #1 'two one line poems' & #2 'Moon Potatoes' both by Max Middle & #3 'flatland #21' by derek beaulieu. For copies of the three leaflets published to date, send an SASE, 8.5 x 11" sized envelope with $1.05 postage (Canadian stamps) & abroad please send $3 in Canadian funds payable to Max Middle, Griddle Grin, 377, 532 Montreal Road, Ottawa, ON, Canada K1K 4R4 Thanks in advance for your submissions - Excellent wishes, Max Middle -- poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics (Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...11th coll'n - name , an errant (Stride, UK) .... c/o 858 Somerset St W, Ottawa ON K1R 6R7 * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 13:54:27 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eric Yost Subject: Re: Vulnerability and politics In-Reply-To: <20060824050846.83038.qmail@web36202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>That's a good notion. Here's another notion. Vulnerability consists in shifting self-definition from the not-self to the open-ended self. Put more simply, people often define themselves in part by what they don't like. "I don't like Lowell, Schubert, Rothko," etc. Vulnerability involves expanding the things one loves, and defining oneself by an ever-expanding ability to love new things. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 11:16:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: Journal Indexes In-Reply-To: <20060824.023614.-253947.29.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed what a bunch of crap. tell the guy to get bent. On Thu, 24 Aug 2006, Steve Dalachinsky wrote: > here's a scenario > what do you all think > inline journal accepts my pome > nice enough to question possibly typos > smart enough to ask if they were intentional or not > then i make corrections > then he says i'm in > then he sends a 2 page contract > > i give up all rights to the poem for at least one year after which if i > take poem back > it will not be included in a possible anthology > as opposed to whether i let him keep it indefinitely > he is notpaying me but wants exclusivity > here's a kicker point 10 of contract states > if i publish poem anywhere else in the world i have to pay editor 100$ > (that'sof course if he found out HA) > > point 12 stated that if i wanted to remove the pome from his site before > the year > was up i'd have to pay him 50 bucks and upon recepit of said $ > he'd remove it after 30 days > > the contract has atotal of 17 points of which i must agree to sign and > return > in order to get pome published what should i doo(d0) what > would you do? poets being martyrs should i agree to this? > actually after questioning him on that he got anoyed as did those i asked > why > we didn't share the door and told me he loved pome thought i wass well > esrablishe but rathe not work with me if this discussion ensues on the > list i will > paste in his responses to my queries...publisher ha right to publish it > anywhere get it translated etc maybe to emasculate the auther as well > > yours a concerned poemer > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 11:32:49 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: Fw: Re: Fw: Re: (for your publication, from nyc) example you be the judge In-Reply-To: <20060824.032656.-258783.9.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Steve, cd you pleasa tell me the name of this publication so I can avoid ever submitting anything to this guy or paying money for his publication? this kind of thing really pisses me off. please backchannel if you aren't comfortable naming the publication publicly. thx, jfq On Thu, 24 Aug 2006, Steve Dalachinsky wrote: > dear list here is one editors answer deleted publication and his name > > Steve, > I think you're a good poet, well-established, and respected, but I'm not > going to work with you through blank. You basically seem to expect me to > accept crap end of the deal, work at length for free and then pay you > somehow even if I earn a minor pittance years from now. I don't think you > understand publishing, how little money is actually profit, and how poets > are rarely paid for their work. > > As for relinquishing the fee for retrieval of rights, I won't do it. I > have to have rights to the poem to publish it. If you commit the poem to > me, and then publish it elsewhere, your commitment to me means nothing. > That fee is my way of saying that I have it exclusively for at least a > year. Asking to have your cake and eat it too is asking too much from me. > > I am withdrawing my acceptance of your poem, because you did not follow > my submission guidelines, you sent me a careless submission with typos in > it -- I showed you the respect of reading it anyway -- and now expect me > to go above any beyond to accommodate your wants. It even takes me a > while to read you e-mails since you don't use punctuation in anything you > write. I'm sure you'll do fine in the future, but I'm not interested in > working with you. > > Good luck. > blank > > ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- > From: skyplums@juno.com > Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 03:08:23 -0400 > >> thanks blank for your input did blank get this contract too >> was not an accusation i made but a query emails always seem to change > the >> tone of what one says >> i'm in infinite zines and on many websites never underwent this before >> >> this is kind of contract is new to me as is the pome which i have sent >> as to modifications in contract it would not be to your liking they >> would be all that stuff about 100 bucks here and 50 there and your > owning >> the rights to my piece >> especially without me being paid >> i don't expect you to work for free unless it's by choice or agreement >> but neither should you the expect me to >> if you incur these damages on me if i want to send my work elsewhere >> if you insist on no sumutaneous submission for at least a year that's >> fine >> but without all those money hassles that's what got me >> > > > ___________________________________________________________ > $0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer > 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. > Signup at www.doteasy.com > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 11:54:25 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Flora Fair Subject: Re: Journal Indexes In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit That's a crap contract. I am dying to know what magazine ... Jason Quackenbush wrote: what a bunch of crap. tell the guy to get bent. On Thu, 24 Aug 2006, Steve Dalachinsky wrote: > here's a scenario > what do you all think > inline journal accepts my pome > nice enough to question possibly typos > smart enough to ask if they were intentional or not > then i make corrections > then he says i'm in > then he sends a 2 page contract > > i give up all rights to the poem for at least one year after which if i > take poem back > it will not be included in a possible anthology > as opposed to whether i let him keep it indefinitely > he is notpaying me but wants exclusivity > here's a kicker point 10 of contract states > if i publish poem anywhere else in the world i have to pay editor 100$ > (that'sof course if he found out HA) > > point 12 stated that if i wanted to remove the pome from his site before > the year > was up i'd have to pay him 50 bucks and upon recepit of said $ > he'd remove it after 30 days > > the contract has atotal of 17 points of which i must agree to sign and > return > in order to get pome published what should i doo(d0) what > would you do? poets being martyrs should i agree to this? > actually after questioning him on that he got anoyed as did those i asked > why > we didn't share the door and told me he loved pome thought i wass well > esrablishe but rathe not work with me if this discussion ensues on the > list i will > paste in his responses to my queries...publisher ha right to publish it > anywhere get it translated etc maybe to emasculate the auther as well > > yours a concerned poemer > "A kitten dies every time you send me a chain email." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 14:03:12 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Skip Fox Subject: Re: Journal Indexes In-Reply-To: <20060824185426.58077.qmail@web56805.mail.re3.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If this works for the magazine, then P. T. Barnam was wrong: there is not "one" but "many" born every minute. (Of which I have no doubt.) -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Flora Fair Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 1:54 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Journal Indexes That's a crap contract. I am dying to know what magazine ... Jason Quackenbush wrote: what a bunch of crap. tell the guy to get bent. On Thu, 24 Aug 2006, Steve Dalachinsky wrote: > here's a scenario > what do you all think > inline journal accepts my pome > nice enough to question possibly typos > smart enough to ask if they were intentional or not > then i make corrections > then he says i'm in > then he sends a 2 page contract > > i give up all rights to the poem for at least one year after which if i > take poem back > it will not be included in a possible anthology > as opposed to whether i let him keep it indefinitely > he is notpaying me but wants exclusivity > here's a kicker point 10 of contract states > if i publish poem anywhere else in the world i have to pay editor 100$ > (that'sof course if he found out HA) > > point 12 stated that if i wanted to remove the pome from his site before > the year > was up i'd have to pay him 50 bucks and upon recepit of said $ > he'd remove it after 30 days > > the contract has atotal of 17 points of which i must agree to sign and > return > in order to get pome published what should i doo(d0) what > would you do? poets being martyrs should i agree to this? > actually after questioning him on that he got anoyed as did those i asked > why > we didn't share the door and told me he loved pome thought i wass well > esrablishe but rathe not work with me if this discussion ensues on the > list i will > paste in his responses to my queries...publisher ha right to publish it > anywhere get it translated etc maybe to emasculate the auther as well > > yours a concerned poemer > "A kitten dies every time you send me a chain email." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 12:26:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eric Dickey Subject: Re: Vulnerability and politics In-Reply-To: <44EDE7D3.3010601@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I've been thinking about this in a different way... Listening to Revel's Bolero: It's kind of a facist tune. I can imagine stormtroopers goosestepping through cities, even though Maurice said he imagined it as the growth of industry. This led me to think that, poetry (the writing and reading of it) is a kind of facism: we qualify one mode over another. When writing, so much is left out. When reading, so much is unappreciated and disregarded. Ashbery said it in his poem This Room, "Something shimmers, something is hushed up." and "Why do I even tell you these things? / You are not even here." Granted poetry is a more phatic form of facism. And facism, as we think of it, don's a war bonnet. But even happiness is facist, guide dogs for the blind is a facist relationship. I don't think there is any easy way out or in; we have to have our preferences determined by our biological necessity to survive. "Judge not, lest ye be judged" is a load of crap. We judge and are judged every second of the day. Get over it. This issue of Vulnerabilty is important for poetry and poets. All poetry, the good, bad and the ugly, has to be under an umbrella of poetry. Whether it is one umbrella or multiple umbrellas is an individual thing. It's not even raining where I am. I like it all; some of it sucks, some of it sucks less. Some of us like some poetry but not other poetries. I'm cool with that. That's your deal. For me, this surfaces as a "yes and yes" world as opposed to the "yes and no" world in which I live. I'm thinking quantum poetics. The belief in an alleged God that this list seems to take for granted is a kind of facism. i.e. My god is better than yours. or Your belief system sucks, mine is better. God exists, God doesn't exist. Can I value both? If human's fell in the forest, would God still exist? Without us, who would care? The next time God comes up in a conversation, I'm going to say, "Who?" The sheer act of expounding beliefs on this forum makes me feel like Mussolini. Please do us all favor, take me out back and beat the shit out of me. It's our only hope, it's my only hope. "Vulnerability involves expanding the things one loves, and defining oneself by an ever-expanding ability to love new things." Well said, Mr. Eric, to which I add, abandon the things you love. Kill the buddha when you see him, he will only distract you. another Mr. Eric Eric Yost wrote: >>That's a good notion. Here's another notion. Vulnerability consists in shifting self-definition from the not-self to the open-ended self. Put more simply, people often define themselves in part by what they don't like. "I don't like Lowell, Schubert, Rothko," etc. Vulnerability involves expanding the things one loves, and defining oneself by an ever-expanding ability to love new things. --------------------------------- All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 14:35:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: Re: Vulnerability and politics In-Reply-To: <20060824192656.90024.qmail@web30406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >I'm thinking quantum poetics. ... =20 >"Vulnerability involves expanding the things one loves,=20 >and defining oneself by an ever-expanding ability to love new things." isn't this called Negative Capability? -- http://www.mrbauld.com/negcap.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 13:03:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Matt Henriksen Subject: NYC ::: Ashley & Wang ::: Sunday August 27th, 7:30 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit [Note change of time] The Burning Chair Readings request your company on a fine late summer afternoon w/ Reneé Ashley & Shanxing Wang Sunday, August 27th, at 7:30 PM The Cloister Café 238 East 9th Street Between 2nd & 3rd Avenues. Always, always, always free. Renée Ashley is the author of three volumes of poetry: Salt, Brittingham Prize in Poetry, Univ. of Wisconsin Press, and The Various Reasons of Light, and The Revisionist's Dream, both from Avocet Press Inc. Her novel, Someplace Like This, was published by The Permanent Press. The Museum of Lost Wings, a chapbook, has just been issued by Hill-Stead Museum, Farmington, CT. She has received a Pushcart Prize, the Charles Angoff Award from The Literary Review, the American Literary Review Award in Poetry, the Chelsea Award in Poetry, the Kenyon Review Award for Literary Excellence, and the Ruth Lake and Robert H. Winner Awards from the Poetry Society of America. She has received creative writing fellowships from the New Jersey State Council on the Arts and the NEA. She is on the faculty of Fairleigh Dickinson University's low-residency M.F.A. Program in Creative Writing and is a contributing editor of The Literary Review. Born and educated in China, Shanxing Wang moved to the US in the early 1990's as a graduate student in mechanical engineering. He currently lives in Queens, New York, and is writing a novelistic poem engaging 20th century historical figures. Mad Science in Imperial City (Futurepoem, 2005) is his first book. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 17:21:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Daniel f. Bradley" Subject: maurice and igor In-Reply-To: <20060824192656.90024.qmail@web30406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit i hear stormtroopers in the rite of spring moving into Paris decades ahead of when they did - time travel or just the fascism of personal fascism that gets anything made how i write all these poems i sit down and write them the goddesses help only if i tune them in mostly it's static or noise that cranks out a letter of maybe a word or two in a row Eric Dickey wrote: I've been thinking about this in a different way... Listening to Revel's Bolero: It's kind of a facist tune. I can imagine stormtroopers goosestepping through cities, even though Maurice said he imagined it as the growth of industry. All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. helping to kill your literati star since 2004 http://fhole.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 15:08:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alexander Dickow Subject: shameless plug In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit All, Those who read French may read a few (old) new pieces at www.larepubliquemondialedeslettres.com (in the "Quoi de neuf" section), website for contemporary French poetry run by the editor of the French journal _Hapax_, Samuel Lequette. Yours, Alex "Ce dont le poete souffre le plus dans ses rapports avec le monde, c'est du manque de justice _interne_. La vitre-cloaque de Caliban derriere laquelle les yeux tout-puissants et sensibles d'Ariel s'irritent." Rene Char, _Partage Formel_, fragment II ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 18:10:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tisa Bryant Subject: The Encyclopedia Project @ Proteus Gowanus! Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable We are part of this year-long exhibit. Please come! Tisa Bryant ****************** Proteus Gowanus is pleased to announce the first event of its Year-Long Interdisciplinary Library Exhibit: To Build a Library: An Analog Landscape in Eight Squares A slide show and presentation by Rick Prelinger & Megan Shaw Prelinger of the Prelinger Library Tuesday, September 5th, 8 - 9 pm The event is free. Seating is limited, please email your reservations=20 to info@proteusgowanus.com or call 718-243-1572 Founded by Rick Prelinger and Megan Shaw Prelinger, and based in San=20 Francisco, the Prelinger Library is an access-oriented, image-rich=20 experimental research library of books, printed ephemera, and over 600=20= periodical titles. It serves readers, artists, scholars and other=20 iconoclastic thinkers and is centered on histories of U.S. regions,=20 culture, industry, landscape, natural history, media, and politics.=20 http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alysons/library.html An Interdisciplinary Library Exhibit and related events at Proteus=20 Gowanus The topic of =93library=94 is captivating the minds of people in many=20 disciplines today, from the history of libraries and their elaborate=20 cataloging systems, to the challenges facing libraries as they confront=20= the web. The visual, conceptual, and metaphorical implications of the=20 theme has inspired work in the arts, and a flowering of small=20 alternative libraries has appeared around the country as the role of=20 library, and the book itself, is questioned. We invite you to visit the=20= gallery, and to consult our website in the coming months for a schedule=20= of events and links to interesting libraries around the world. Exhibit and event participants include: The Brooklyn Museum Library, The Brooklyn Historical Society, The=20 Prelinger Library, Reanimation Library, The Encyclopedia Project,=20 Cabinet Magazine, Bomb Magazine, Kentler International Drawing Space,=20 Place in History, Recrossing Brooklyn Ferry, Ugly Duckling Press,=20 Purgatory Pie Press, the Institute For Figuring, Temporary Services, J=20= & L Books, The Donnell Media Center at the New York Public Library, The=20= Artistbook Library (curated by Maddy Rosenberg), The Empty Vessel=20 Project, The Gowanus Dredgers Canoe Club, The Museum of Matches=20 Project, =93Library Correspondents=94 Wendy Walker and Tom LaFarge, = artists=20 Nick Defriez, Harrell Fletcher, David Gatten, Nina Katchadourian,=20 Jeanne Liotta, Jeffrey Schiff, Tracy Priest, Robert The, Mary Ting,=20 Alexandra Walcott and many more. Proteus Gowanus 543 Union Street @ Nevins Street Brooklyn, NY 11217 www.proteusgowanus.com 718-243-1572 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To see your drama clearly is to be liberated from it. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 18:30:22 -0400 Reply-To: pamelabeth@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pam Grossman Subject: online journal Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hi there, steve. hope you're well! coupla things: 1) i echo others on the list in saying that the editor you've posted about sounds horrible and absolutely out of line. from what i'm gathering, if your poem was posted with that journal you would get no money...but he'd get rights to it for a year, at least...and if you wanted to publish it elsewhere within that time, you would owe *him* money? why should anyone agree to that?! 2) i also agree with something you said in one of your notes to him--that email can sometimes seem to distort the writer's intention somehow. this has happened to me--that what i've written via email has been totally misconstrued, in tone or in fact, leaving me to wish i had not written at all. 3) so when you brought up concerns about an unfair situation, this editor's response was to criticize/belittle you and retract your acceptance. lovely! i think his/her message was, "my job is to make the rules; yours is to accept them, or else." since when is that acceptable behavior between adults?! 4) i, too, would welcome the name of this editor and this journal, so i can be sure to avoid. onward and upward for you! all best, pam ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 18:34:32 -0400 Reply-To: pamelabeth@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pam Grossman Subject: oops Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit nothing private, but i meant to send just to steve. sorry to bother you all. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 17:07:45 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Tomorrow, Friday Night - Summer Shindig End In-Reply-To: <24011422.1156458873175.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MiPOesias Reading Series presents Scott Glassman, Sara Femenella, and Meghan Punschke 7:00 PM -- Friday, August 25th Stain Bar 766 Grand Street (L to Grand, 1 block west) Williamsburg, Brooklyn http://www.stainbar.com ______________________________________ Scott Glassman lives in South Jersey and works in the medical testing field. He is the author of the forthcoming chapbook Exertions (Cy Gist, 2006), and Surface Tension (Dusie Kollektiv, 2006) with Mackenzie Carignan. His poems have appeared in OCHO, Epicenter, CutBank, Coconut, eratio, and others. He also co-curates the INVERSE Reading Series in Philadelphia. Sara Femenella has just returned to Brooklyn after six months studying and writing in St. Petersburg, Russia. She is starting Columbia University in the fall as an MFA candidate in poetry. Meghan Punschke resides in New York City and is currently attending the New School for an MFA in Poetry. She is the host and curator of "Word of Mouth," a reading series in the West Village dedicated to poets and fiction writers. This September, she will be hosting the first poetry event to be included in the Harlem Arts Festival. Punschke's work has also appeared in Free Focus. ____________________________________ Hope to see you there! Amy King & Didi Menendez MiPOesias -- http://www.mipoesias.com MiPOradio -- http://www.miporadio.net/index1.html Reading Series -- http://miporeadingseries.blogspot.com Managing Editor -- http://www.amyking.org/blog --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 17:08:02 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Tomorrow, Friday Night - Summer Shindig End In-Reply-To: <24011422.1156458873175.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MiPOesias Reading Series presents Scott Glassman, Sara Femenella, and Meghan Punschke 7:00 PM -- Friday, August 25th Stain Bar 766 Grand Street (L to Grand, 1 block west) Williamsburg, Brooklyn http://www.stainbar.com ______________________________________ Scott Glassman lives in South Jersey and works in the medical testing field. He is the author of the forthcoming chapbook Exertions (Cy Gist, 2006), and Surface Tension (Dusie Kollektiv, 2006) with Mackenzie Carignan. His poems have appeared in OCHO, Epicenter, CutBank, Coconut, eratio, and others. He also co-curates the INVERSE Reading Series in Philadelphia. Sara Femenella has just returned to Brooklyn after six months studying and writing in St. Petersburg, Russia. She is starting Columbia University in the fall as an MFA candidate in poetry. Meghan Punschke resides in New York City and is currently attending the New School for an MFA in Poetry. She is the host and curator of "Word of Mouth," a reading series in the West Village dedicated to poets and fiction writers. This September, she will be hosting the first poetry event to be included in the Harlem Arts Festival. Punschke's work has also appeared in Free Focus. ____________________________________ Hope to see you there! Amy King & Didi Menendez MiPOesias -- http://www.mipoesias.com MiPOradio -- http://www.miporadio.net/index1.html Reading Series -- http://miporeadingseries.blogspot.com Managing Editor -- http://www.amyking.org/blog --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 20:23:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: X E R O L A G E 3 8 =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?=97?= Peter Ciccariello Comments: To: Theory and Writing , spidertangle@yahoogroups.com, ubuweb@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed X E R O L A G E 3 8 =97 Peter Ciccariello Imaginal Landscapes I can't believe I'm finally seeing all of these images together, =20 resonant families, communalities, Kristeva's chora-chorus! Wonderful! =20= Such original work - these are master-mistress-pieces - their =20 philosophic tendencies ring true, readings and rereadings. I've =20 followed their development just as language murmurs, burbles - their =20 linguistic-paleontologies, infinite and indeterminate depths. Where =20 is the locus of these landscapes? Who are the inscribers? Who are the =20= inscribed? =97Alan Sondheim I wondered how Ciccariello's swirling-colored imaginary would =20 translate into the de-rigueur black-and-white of the magnificent =20 Xerolage series; the results are vertiginously thrilling. Surfaces, =20 pliable and lapidary, inscribed with disoriented fragments of words =20 and alphabetic spasms, collide and interweave in a visual dance of =20 merging and emerging. =97Maria Damon Put on your Alice-in-Wonderland head and dive into these poems. Don't =20= be surprised if you run into Ian Hamilton Finlay and M.C. Escher, =20 and, I swear, Franz Kafka's cockroach (he's a bit shy though), and =20 many others who have enriched our imaginations. These are sensuous =20 lettrist landscapes to inhabit, to help escape the habits we often =20 reside in. =97Crag Hill http://xexoxial.org/xerolage/x38.html 24 pages, 8.5 x 11, digital xerography, $6 includes postage. Subscriptions: 4 issues/$20 For review copies contact perspicacity@xexoxial.org XEXOXIAL EDITIONS 10375 Cty Hway A La Farge, WI 54639 USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 21:43:45 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eric Yost Subject: Re: maurice and igor In-Reply-To: <20060824212139.49252.qmail@web88112.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>i hear stormtroopers in the rite of spring moving into Paris decades ahead of when they did Would think the "fascist drumbeat" was also rock drumming, stealing the rhythm from all the other instruments and concentrating it for one guy with two sticks and a lot of percussive surfaces. Or the hiphop drum machine--the specialist again, the beat in charge of all the samples, the rhythm you will like dammit because I say so. Then I think about what the Nazis really liked: schmaltz, sentimentality, hearts-on-sleeves, the quick manipulation of fellow feeling, Wagnerian goosebumps becoming Wagnerian goosesteps, the death of little Nell, doubling the woodwinds in Beethoven's 4th with Furtwangler, the Spielberg soundtracks that tell you what to feel about a movie scene, the overkill of indication. You will cry now because it's moving dammit...can't you hear the soundtrack? Will loving more make us better fascist dictators of our poems? Maybe. Maybe just give us more images. Or more preconceptions we have to kill. But the real state secret, the one we guard so closely, is that we're seldom in control. You will find this post thoughtful because I say so dammit. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 22:04:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christopher Harter Subject: Assistance with magazine indexing project Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hello all, I thought I'd take advantage of the collective wisdom of the list to ask for some help. I am compiling an author index to over 100 little magazines from the 1960s/70s, loosely under the banner of the Mimeograph Revolution. Below is a list of individual issues from titles to be included in the project. I have not been able to find these issues after searching widely among libraries and booksellers. If you or anyone else you know might have copies of these magazines, or if you have contact information for the editors, please contact me at pathwisepress@hotmail.com. Thank you. Magazines: Atom Mind #8 (Greg Smith, ed. Syracuse, NY) -- this should be the last issue before the mag's hiatus Beatitude #19 (Bob Kaufman, et al, eds. San Francisco) Grist #1 & #13 (John Fowler, ed. Lawrence, KS) -- have found no evidence of a #13 Yowl #1 (Erik Kiviat and George Montgomery, ed. NY, NY) Christopher Harter Pathwise Press/Bathtub Gin PO Box 1164, Champaign, IL 61824 pathwisepress@hotmail.com pathwisepress.com FORTHCOMING BOOK: from Scarecrow Press: "An Author Index to Little Magazines: The 1960s/70s Mimeograph Revolution" -- contact pathwisepress@hotmail.com for information. _________________________________________________________________ Check the weather nationwide with MSN Search: Try it now! http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=weather&FORM=WLMTAG ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 21:00:48 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mona Baroudi Subject: Out of the office Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline Thank you for your message. I am out of the office until Monday, September 11, and will respond upon my return. For immediate assistance, please contact Intersection's Administrative Offices at 415.626.2787. Thank you. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 10:20:35 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Edmund Hardy Subject: i.s. - call for poetry submissions In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed http://intercapillaryspace.blogspot.com/ "Intercapillary Space" is a regularly updated poetry blogzine with a growing archive of reviews, essays and poems. Now we would like to read poetry sent to us for consideration. We can offer no payment other than placement. We like all kinds of poetry as long as it is brilliant. We prefer louche intelligence but will happily take any swank speech. Please send as much as possible so we can choose those poems which delight us. Submissions will be considered and discussed by both of us within two days and poems chosen will then be posted online within a week. So please send your work to edmundhardy@hotmail.com or laurasteele0@lycos.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 04:20:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AG Jorgensen Subject: LAST CALL on THIS Ques. -- Has anyone ever used a blurb in a bio In-Reply-To: <20060824111810.67421.qmail@web88105.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Has anyone ever used a blurb in a bio? Last time I try to repackage this question. I am very interested in others' experiences, opinions on this. Apologize for being repetitive. AGJ --- "Our best security, our only security, is in the world of ideas, and I sense a slight foreboding," he said.-- Justice Anthony Kennedy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 08:24:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: LAST CALL on THIS Ques. -- Has anyone ever used a blurb in a bio In-Reply-To: <20060825112019.18303.qmail@web54604.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've never done it, but if eh bio is more than a few sentences you might be able to say, "So and so, the acclaimed poet, has praised the author's work as 'greater than Shakespeare'" and embellish it slightly. You'd have to have the right length bio & right context to make it fit. Vernon http//vernonfrazer.com -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of AG Jorgensen Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 7:20 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: LAST CALL on THIS Ques. -- Has anyone ever used a blurb in a bio Has anyone ever used a blurb in a bio? Last time I try to repackage this question. I am very interested in others' experiences, opinions on this. Apologize for being repetitive. AGJ --- "Our best security, our only security, is in the world of ideas, and I sense a slight foreboding," he said.-- Justice Anthony Kennedy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 05:32:48 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: LAST CALL on THIS Ques. -- Has anyone ever used a blurb in a bio In-Reply-To: <20060825112019.18303.qmail@web54604.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Your post reminds me of a remark by Marshall McLuhan: "The future of the book is the blurb." from http://www.marshallmcluhan.com/poster.html > Has anyone ever used a blurb in a bio? Last time I try > to repackage this question. I am very interested in > others' experiences, opinions on this. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 05:45:02 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander Subject: blog begins Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hello. I just wanted to tell you I launched (or, more properly, re-launched, as I blogged a bit in 2002 & 2003) a blog today, with initial entries being a brief introduction and a bit on Justin Sirois's SILVER STANDARD. I plan on attending the blog once a week, for a lot of weeks . . . all best wishes, Charles Alexander charles alexander / chax press fold the book inside the book keep it open always read from the inside out speak then ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 08:58:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kevin thurston Subject: Re: blog begins In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20060825054432.02d3a5b8@mail.theriver.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline where is this blog? On 8/25/06, charles alexander wrote: > > Hello. I just wanted to tell you I launched (or, more properly, > re-launched, as I blogged a bit in 2002 & 2003) a blog today, with initial > entries being a brief introduction and a bit on Justin Sirois's SILVER > STANDARD. > > I plan on attending the blog once a week, for a lot of weeks . . . > > all best wishes, > > Charles Alexander > > charles alexander / chax press > > fold the book inside the book keep it open always > read from the inside out speak then > -- http://fuckinglies.blogspot.com http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/thepixelplus/nhdoublewide.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 06:00:22 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander Subject: blog begins Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed forgot URL before: http://chax.org/blog.htm Hello. I just wanted to tell you I launched (or, more properly, re-launched, as I blogged a bit in 2002 & 2003) a blog today, with initial entries being a brief introduction and a bit on Justin Sirois's SILVER STANDARD. I plan on attending the blog once a week, for a lot of weeks . . . all best wishes, Charles Alexander charles alexander / chax press fold the book inside the book keep it open always read from the inside out speak then ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 08:47:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: LAST CALL on THIS Ques. -- Has anyone ever used a blurb in a bio In-Reply-To: <20060825112019.18303.qmail@web54604.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The answer is "yes", AJ. I myself have not, but I seen some bios that were almost nothing but blurbs. Hal Today's Special G(e)nome http://www.xpressed.org/fall03/genome.pdf Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@gmail.com halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Aug 25, 2006, at 6:20 AM, AG Jorgensen wrote: > Has anyone ever used a blurb in a bio? Last time I try > to repackage this question. I am very interested in > others' experiences, opinions on this. > > Apologize for being repetitive. > > AGJ > > --- > "Our best security, our only security, is in the world of ideas, > and I sense a slight foreboding," he said.-- Justice Anthony Kennedy > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 08:49:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: LAST CALL on THIS Ques. -- Has anyone ever used a blurb in a bio In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit But blurbs have to be READ! The real future of the book is the author photo. Hal Actual Product May Vary from Photos Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@gmail.com halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Aug 25, 2006, at 7:32 AM, Jim Andrews wrote: > Your post reminds me of a remark by Marshall McLuhan: "The future > of the > book is the blurb." > from http://www.marshallmcluhan.com/poster.html > >> Has anyone ever used a blurb in a bio? Last time I try >> to repackage this question. I am very interested in >> others' experiences, opinions on this. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 08:54:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: LAST CALL on THIS Ques. -- Has anyone ever used a blurb in a bio In-Reply-To: <20060825112019.18303.qmail@web54604.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" when i'm on hiring committees etc. i have rec'd cvs and application materials that include blurbs, reviews, etc; sometimes it seems like overkill for a writer, but "normal" for a visual artist... is that weird? At 4:20 AM -0700 8/25/06, AG Jorgensen wrote: >Has anyone ever used a blurb in a bio? Last time I try >to repackage this question. I am very interested in >others' experiences, opinions on this. > >Apologize for being repetitive. > >AGJ > >--- >"Our best security, our only security, is in the world of ideas, and >I sense a slight foreboding," he said.-- Justice Anthony Kennedy > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 16:29:34 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sam Ladkin Subject: urban underworld In-Reply-To: <44EE55D1.5040505@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed URBAN UNDERWORLD London=92s Spatial, Social & Cultural Undergrounds from 1825 to the =20 Present Conference =96 9am-5pm, English Faculty, University of Cambridge, =20 26/09/2006 Keynote Speaker: Dr. Rachel Falconer, University of Sheffield. Featuring papers by David L. Pike and Johnathon Green. =46rom the creation of the Thames Tunnel, through London=92s socially =20= conceived underworlds of poverty and crime, to the excavation of its =20 extensive subterranean transport and sewage infrastructure, and the =20 underground cultural movements that emerged in the city in the 1960s, =20= London=92s Urban Underworld has over the past 175 years enjoyed a rich =20= representational history. These spatial, social and cultural =20 undergrounds form the subject of this forthcoming conference at the =20 University of Cambridge, which sets out to map the capital=92s most =20 suggestive mindscape, and relate it to contemporary theoretical =20 debates on subterranean space, urban studies, and subcultural activity. Happening =96 8pm-11pm, Bateman Auditorium, Gonville & Caius College, =20= Cambridge, 26/09/2006. Special performance by Michael Horovitz. An evening celebration of London=92s Urban Underworld to follow the =20 conference, featuring performance poetry by Michael Horovitz and Ian =20 Patterson, live music by free improvisation jazz-band =91Barkingside=92, = =20 and films by Rod Mengham and Marc Atkins. Conference =3D =A312 / =A310 conc. Happening =3D =A36 / =A35 conc. Conference + Happening =3D =A315 / =A312 conc. For advance tickets please send a cheque made payable to =93David =20 Ashford=94, with a short note stating name, address, email address, =20 telephone number and ticket preference, to D.M. Ashford, Selwyn =20 College, Cambridge, CB3 9DQ, by 15/09/2006. See www.english.cam.ac.uk/underworld or contact dma31@cam.ac.uk ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 08:54:03 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sarah Mangold Subject: Bird Dog Reminder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable **Deadline for Issue 8: September 15, 2006** Bird Dog: A dog used to retrieve game birds. To follow a subject of interes= t with persistent attention. A scout . . .=20 Bird Dog, a journal of innovative writing and art. Seeking innovative writi= ng and art: collaborations, interviews, long poems, reviews, collage, poetr= y, poetics, graphs, charts, non-fiction, cross genre . . .=20 Issue Seven featured new work by: derek beaulieu, Raymond L. Bianchi, Anne = Boyer, Valerie Coulton, Gale Czerski, Patrick F. Durgin, Lisa Fishman, Brad= Flis, Karla Kelsey, Sueyeun Juliette Lee, Michael Leong, Cleveland Moffett= , Doug Nufer, John Olson, Danielle Pafunda, Nate Pritts, Francis Raven, Edw= ard Smallfield Joshua Marie Wilkinson, Max Winter, Art work from Patricia H= agen and cover design by C.E. Putnam=20 7x9, perfect-bound, tipped in art and illustrations=20 ISSN 1546-0479 Subscriptions $15.00 for two issues. Individual copies $8=20 (International shipping, please add $8)=20 Checks payable to Sarah Mangold=20 Submissions, Subscriptions, Queries:=20 Bird Dog=20 c/o Sarah Mangold=20 1535 32nd Ave, Apt. C=20 Seattle, WA 98122=20 www.birddogmagazine.com=20 Find a Bird Dog near you: Berkeley, Pegasus Books. Brooklyn, Adam=92s Books= . Portland, Powell=92s Books. Seattle, Open Books and Bulldog News. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 09:34:11 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: LAST CALL on THIS Ques. -- Has anyone ever used a blurb in a bio In-Reply-To: <20060825122407.VZWC22125.ibm65aec.bellsouth.net@vernon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit interesting you ask, since many of the factory school books have no bios, tho some of them do; none have blurbs because there was some author discussion about trying to forgo them -- but in the website info about the books, Carol Mirakove and Kristin Prevallet have blurbs or reviewlets (generally this sort of stuff is written by the author, so in this case, re-placing the blurb here is more interesting than it might seem on the surface) and the blue lion books have no bios or blurbs or photos, tho some do have some descriptive text on the website then, or course, there's Jukka-Pekka Kervanen's ? I think book of blurbs -- if I'm getting it right, he wrote a blurb template for somebody, but then ended up writing a book of blurbs. Eileen Tabios solicited blurbs (on this list), and then was writing a book to the blurbs. part of the glory of job-hunting with an MFA is that other MFAs in other arts may have reviews at a quite early stage, while as a writer, you are less likely to have this type of comment; then you go to interviews and unlike in the visual arts where it seems people are more cognizant of galleries, curators, collectors, and teachers, you may even have a book or two, and the interviewers don't know the press, the blurbers, the review organs, so I've ended up trying to "sell" the press and the reviews (as I haven't won any grants, fellowships, or prizes) -- you know, well, there's no reason you'd have heard of Salt, they're not [local press x, or not Harper Collins], but here's who they are, and what American Book Review is -- it seems to me to be irresponsible to be making a creative writing hire and know nothing about small press publishing All best, Catherine ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 12:51:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Katalanche Press Subject: Fwd: fewer & further publications In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Jess Mynes Date: Aug 24, 2006 11:39 AM Subject: fewer & further publications To: Jess Mynes Hello everyone, Fewer & Further Press would like to announce the publication of two new chapbooks: Christopher Rizzo's *the Breaks* and Joseph Massey's *Property Line*. *the Breaks *is printed in an edition of 200 copies, 40 of which are special editions. The first twenty orders of *the Breaks* will receive a signed double-sided broadside. *Property Line* is printed in an edition of 250 copies, 40 of which are special editions. Special editions are author signed, hand-sewn with special end papers, printed on linen paper. Please visit the Fewer & Further Press site for pricing, written excerpts, audio samples, and cover images: fewfurpress.blogspot.com . *Landscape Odes,* a folded broadside featuring 5 poems from Jess Mynes, printed in an edition of 40 copies, is also just published by Fewer & Further Press. Clark Coolidge's *Counting on Planet Zero* will be the next Fewer & Further Press publication. Thanks, Jess Mynes, editor ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 10:01:59 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: blog begins In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20060825055928.02dd7b98@mail.theriver.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Bon voyage, Charles! Stephen http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ > forgot URL before: > > http://chax.org/blog.htm > > Hello. I just wanted to tell you I launched (or, more properly, > re-launched, as I blogged a bit in 2002 & 2003) a blog today, with initial > entries being a brief introduction and a bit on Justin Sirois's SILVER > STANDARD. > > I plan on attending the blog once a week, for a lot of weeks . . . > > all best wishes, > > Charles Alexander > > charles alexander / chax press > > fold the book inside the book keep it open always > read from the inside out speak then ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 10:26:55 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: maurice and igor In-Reply-To: <44EE55D1.5040505@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit schmaltz is Yiddish -- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 13:34:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Daniel f. Bradley" Subject: Re: maurice and igor In-Reply-To: <005a01c6c86b$a9944440$6501a8c0@KASIA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit is Chicken fat Catherine Daly wrote: schmaltz is Yiddish -- helping to kill your literati star since 2004 http://fhole.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 13:55:10 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Dr. Herbert Stern" Subject: unsubscribe Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed this is my second request. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 17:56:00 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Raymond Bianchi Subject: Re: unsubscribe Comments: cc: "Dr. Herbert Stern" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit relax Herbie ! -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Dr. Herbert Stern" > this is my second request. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 11:04:37 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AG Jorgensen Subject: NEWS: What publications with deadlines coming up might you suggest In-Reply-To: <20060823043721.26775.qmail@web36205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit What publications with deadlines coming up might you suggest? I know I've been asking alot of questions, but this sure beats nastiness, doesn't it! Any recommendations? AGJ --- "Our best security, our only security, is in the world of ideas, and I sense a slight foreboding," he said.-- Justice Anthony Kennedy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 14:52:58 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: travis ortiz Subject: Re: unsubscribe MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 taken from http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html, here's how to unsubscribe: 5. To Unsubscribe To unsubscribe (or change any of your subscription options), again, we strongly encourage you to go to the right-hand side of the screen at http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/archives/poetics.html You may also may unsubscribe by sending a one-line email to with no "subject": unsub poetics If you are having difficulty unsubscribing, please note: sometimes your e-mail address may be changed slightly by your system administrator. If this happens you will not be able to send messages to Poetics or to unsubscribe, although you will continue to receive mail from the Poetics List. To avoid this problem, unsub using your old address, then resubscribe with your new email address. > relax Herbie ! > > -------------- Original message -------------- > From: "Dr. Herbert Stern" > > > this is my second request. > > -- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 12:11:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: melissa benham Subject: Hooke Press Announcement MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello! I'd like to officially present the lovely books of Hooke Press, as well as Hooke Press itself. In the words of Brent Cunningham: As some of you may know, Neil Alger and I launched a chapbook press called Hooke Press almost a year ago. I am happy to say that we've now gotten our first three books out, and the web site is up, including a modest bit about what we think we're trying to do. We're just now beginning to let folks know about the site & the titles. I hope some of you will come by and check out the books, & even buy them. Online they're $9 each, with a flat rate of $4 to ship in the U.S. regardless of # of books. The site is: http://www.hookepress.com Our books so far: .001 >>At All: Tom Raworth & His Collages >> by Norma Cole >> 34pp >> $10.00 >>A poetic consideration of Raworth's collages, as well as a meditation on thought and play in visual art, by one of the great poets & translators of recent decades.<< +printed in an edition of 150 in April of 2006+ .002 >> Burrow >> by Lauren Shufran >> 52pp >> $10.00 >>Prose poems bewitched by walls, holes, pirates, biblical prophesy, and lovers. Includes a Sing-Along! Currently the only easily-available publication of this ingenious, emerging San Francisco poet.<< +printed in an edition of 150 in July of 2006+ .003 >> Selected Amazon Reviews >> by Kevin Killian >> edited by Brent Cunningham >> 54pp >> $10.00 >>Selections from the 1,000+ reviews that Killian has written for books, movies, and everyday products on Amazon.com. Subversive and delightful modifiations to a pervasive online art form.<< +printed in an edition of 200 in August of 2006+ Thanks, all...and feel free to email with questions about the press... Brent Cunningham Hooke Press Melissa R. Benham for info on Artifact, Codeswitching, & other work: www.geocities.com/evilwarlordprincess (cell) 415.517.5176 (home) 415.647.7689 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 13:14:11 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: L Guevarra Subject: NEW BOOK: The Fire Comments: To: poetics@listserv.buffalo.edu. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Dear Buffalo Poetics List: The University of California Press is pleased to announce the publication of: The Fire: Collected Essays of Robin Blaser Robin Blaser is Professor Emeritus at Simon Fraser University. Among his many books are _The Holy Forest _(UC Press), _Pell Mell, _and _Syntax_. Miriam Nichols is College Professor at University College of the Fraser Valley and editor of _Even on Sunday: Essays, Readings, and Archival Materials on the Poetry and Poetics of Robin Blaser._ http://go.ucpress.edu/Blaser "In his exquisite articulations of the flowers of associational thinking, Robin Blaser has turned knowledge into nowledge, the 'wild logos' of the cosmic companionship of the real."-Charles Bernstein, author of _Republics of Reality: 1975-1995_ Spanning four decades of meditation on the avant-garde in poetry, art, and philosophy, the essays collected in _The Fire _reveal Robin Blaser's strikingly fresh perspective on "New American" poets, deconstructive philosophies, current events, and the state of humanities now. The essays, gathered in one volume for the first time, include commentaries on Jack Spicer, Charles Olson, Robert Duncan, Mary Butts, George Bowering, Louis Dudek, Christos Dikeakos, and J. S. Bach. Blaser emerged from the "Berkeley Renaissance" of the 1940s and 1950s having studied under legendary medieval scholar Ernst Kantorowicz and having been a major participant in the burgeoning literary scene. His response to the cultural and political events of his time has been to construct a poetic voice that offers a singular perspective on a shareable world-and to pose that voice alongside others as a source of countermemory and potential agency. Conceived as conversations, these essays brilliantly reflect that ethos as they re-read the cultural events of the past fifty years. Full information about the bookis available online: http://go.ucpress.edu/Blaser ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 16:41:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: heidi arnold Subject: pacifist poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline --i'm going to carry some chapbooks to Bogota to leave in cafes and give to churches -- for this purpose i am looking for chapbooks of poetry about peace and pacifism --anyone who has written / read one of these lately, let me know -- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 16:09:44 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: LAST CALL on THIS Ques. -- Has anyone ever used a blurb in a bio In-Reply-To: <004501c6c864$4dad0fb0$6501a8c0@KASIA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the ice cream truck just drove up and down the street blaring an insipid ditty to attract children. i confess i've come to loathe the ice cream truck's music like i loathe blurbs. and what of the human being who drives the ice cream truck and hears that blaring void all day long? "I can't remember when I last read such a powerful collection." if you use a blurb in a bio is that a bio hazardous blurb or a blurbo-hazardous bio? ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 21:41:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: heidi arnold Subject: Re: LAST CALL on THIS Ques. -- Has anyone ever used a blurb in a bio In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline --you mean you had to blurb the village in order to save it -- On 8/25/06, Jim Andrews wrote: > > the ice cream truck just drove up and down the street blaring an insipid > ditty to attract children. i confess i've come to loathe the ice cream > truck's music like i loathe blurbs. > > and what of the human being who drives the ice cream truck and hears that > blaring void all day long? "I can't remember when I last read such a > powerful collection." > > if you use a blurb in a bio is that a bio hazardous blurb or a > blurbo-hazardous bio? > > ja > http://vispo.com > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 21:51:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Fw: Oyhoo Festival MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The 2006 Oyhoo Festival invites you to a very special event: Sunday, Sept. 10 92nd Street Y 8pm : $118, $75, $45, and $25 Opening Concert: An Evening with John Zorn and the Book of Angels This year’s festival line-up is becoming overwhelming with so many tremendous shows. Opening night of the Festival is a special evening of John Zorn and the Book of Angels featuring an unprecedented combination of 4 different configurations of Masada on the stage at the 92nd Street Y. Masada Quartet with John Zorn, Dave Douglas, Greg Cohen and Joey Baron Electric Masada with John Zorn, Marc Ribot, Jamie Saft, Ikue Mori, Trevor Dunn, Joey Baron, Kenny Wollesen and Cyro Baptista. Masada String Trio with Mark Feldman, Erik Friedlander and Greg Cohen Kol Nidre featuring the Masada String Orchestra conducted by John Zorn A remarkable and special evening that is sure to sell-out in advance - so buy your tickets now! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 21:58:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Fw: Re: Fw: Re: (for your publication, from nyc) example you be the judge MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i'd say change 3 words is enough i should have thought of that but thought contract was preposterous so far all but one i showed it to or discussed it with agree this kindof immoral can't hurt anyone it's not like it's a close friend whose trust yer breaking and if publisher has the layout i understand that too he can complain too but thatt's his decision too since many folks are curious: here every one send him work see if you get the same contract www.levelpoetry.com as for maurice & igor it's RAVEL not revel or lavel not on the level ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 22:26:45 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eric Yost Subject: Re: maurice and igor In-Reply-To: <005a01c6c86b$a9944440$6501a8c0@KASIA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>schmaltz is Yiddish Yes, it means either chicken fat (if you're making soup) or excessive sentimentality in art or music. I intended the second sense of the word. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 21:48:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: maurice and igor In-Reply-To: <44EFB165.60403@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" well the word may be yiddish but the phenomenon is wide-spread. At 10:26 PM -0400 8/25/06, Eric Yost wrote: > >>schmaltz is Yiddish > >Yes, it means either chicken fat (if you're making soup) or >excessive sentimentality in art or music. I intended the second >sense of the word. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 01:47:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Carol Novack Subject: Upcoming Mad Hatter Readings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline *Sunday, September 10th, **5:30 =96 7:30**: *I myself personally & in pers= on will be reading at High Chai (18 Avenue B, East Village) in the new Phoenix Series with Bob Heman, Ilene Starger & Vivian Eyre. *Friday, September 15th, **7 =96 9 pm**: **The Mad Hatters' Poetry, Prose = & Anything Goes Series* (KGB Bar, 85 East 4th Street) will feature Ron Silliman, Samuel R. Delany, & Debra Di Blasi, whose hypertextual innovation will be published & heard in all its glory in our next issue this October. *Sunday, September 24th, **7 pm**: **Mad Hatters' Review* will be ABC No Rio's featured literary journal. The grant-funded reading, hosted by poet Bruce Weber, will feature me and I, associate editor Elizabeth Smith, and Issue 4 contributor, Down Under dweller Girija Tropp. The Lower East Sidevenue is at 156 Rivington Street. *Thursday, October 19th, **7 =96 9pm*: I will be reading with my self & others in Kathleen Warnock's Drunken, Careening Writers Series at the KGB Bar. *October something or other at some time & place or other*:* *MHR editors will offer a festive, demented reading to celebrate the launching of Issue 6. Expect to hear some remarkable guest readers as well as editors & maybe a contributor or two. Stay in tune for details. A notice will be sent. *Friday, November 17th, 7 =96 9 pm*: *The* *Mad Hatters' Review Poetry, Pro= se & Anything Goes Series *(KGB Bar) will feature Diane Williams, Frederic Tuten & Canadian poet Carolyn Zonailo, a contributor to our first issue. *DETAILS ABOUT **READINGS** ARE OR WILL BE AVAILABLE ON THE MAD HATTERS' REVIEW EVENTS PAGE: **http://madhattersreview.com/events.shtml* *To opt out of readings announcement, please reply with the words CEASE & DESIST or EAT YOUR HATS *or *ENOUGH ABOUT YOU ALREADY YET. WHAT ABOUT MOI?= * --=20 MAD HATTERS' REVIEW: Edgy & Enlightened Literature, Art & Music in the Age of Dementia: http://www.madhattersreview.com http://carolnovack.blogspot.com/ http://nowwhatblog.blogspot.com http://www.webdelsol.com/eSCENE/series20.html http://webdelsol.com/PortalDelSol/pds-interview-mhr.htm "Around us, everything is writing; that's what we must perceive. Everything is writing. It's the unknown in oneself, one's head, one's body. Writing is not even a reflection, but a kind of faculty one has, that exists to one side of oneself, parallel to oneself: another person who appears and comes forward, invisible, gifted with thought and anger, and who sometimes, through her own actions, risks losing her life. Into the night." -- Marguerite Duras ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 02:21:31 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: LAST CALL on THIS Ques. -- Has anyone ever used a blurb in a bio MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit no but a good idea who's blird ya wanna use? oh and here's the latest after i said i wasn't retracting my poem but questioning his ethics on the level or not Hi Steve, I'll meet you in the middle. I've amended your contract to change the following things: 1. no more $100 for publishing it elsewhere. Now $100 fine only if you go behind my back and publish while I have it on level. You want to publish it elsewhere, you just notify me first. 2. I changed the one year to six months, and the $50 penalty for removal only goes up to three months, instead of the full year. 3. Remains the same: if you take it off the website, I won't put it in any print anthology. I hope this puts your worries to rest. I'm not an unfair guy. I just think that if you commit the poem to me, then honor the commitment. So I fixed your monetary penalties, and basically all you have to do when you want the rights back (after three months) is say so. If you'll sign this one, and get it to me, I'll publish your poem and be proud to do it. Sorry for the contention. F. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 00:19:00 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jennifer Karmin Subject: Support for Elvira Arellano MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ....reality is really a process, undergoing constant transformation. -- Paulo Freire, Pedagogy of the Oppressed Glad to see some dialogue around Elvira Arellano's deportation case. Thanks to all who have shared their ideas both on the list serve and off. In 2002, Elvira became a public figure here in Chicago. She was working as a cleaning woman and arrested with 53 immigrant employees at O'Hare airport. This was a specific Department of Homeland Security post-9/11 raid named "Operation Chicago Land Skies." There have never been any official claims that these arrested workers were terrorists and many of them have not been heard from. But shortly after her arrest, Elvira began her campaign of speaking out for the rights of undocumented workers. The U.S. immigration system is broken (and health care and education and social security). And this is no surprise. Our government has never handed out change. People have had to demand change again and again: the right to vote, to unionize, to have an abortion, etc. In all of these cases, individuals have stepped forward to test the system and create a historical record for change. Day by day make it new cut underbrush pile the logs keep it growing. -- Ezra Pound, Canto 53 What is the responsibility of the poet? More importantly, what are our responsibilities to the communities we live in, teach in, produce poetry in? At the city college and in the public schools, I ask my poetry students (mostly immigrant and black) to take risks in their writing. To question uses of language. To rethink metaphors. I expect and certainly hope their ideas will not just stay on the page. Taking risks also means taking risks in our everyday lives. The U.S. policy of uberconsumersim/globalcapitalism has created extreme economic inequality around the world. According to the United Nations, 60% of immigration represents people moving from poor countries to richer countries. People are desperately risking their lives and willing to break laws. Yet, most Americans do not complain about illegal practices while they are paying in cash for any of the leisure services (gardeners, nannies, bus boys, prostitutes) provided by undocumented workers. The majority of these low-wage workers are not involved with credit card fraud, too difficult a pursuit if you are afraid of being deported and looking to not draw any extra attention to yourself. If one is looking for accountability, the powers that run the international underground economy are a good place to start. ....the economy is a set of shared social practices, ideas, and institutions that are created, maintained, and reproduced by people....Progress towards economic justice is not inevitable; it is won by people through their work, individually and collectively, to better the economic practices and institutions they have inherited from the past. -- Teresa Amott and Julie Matthaie, Race, Gender, & Work NY TIMES ARTICLE ABOUT ELVIRA ARELLANO: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/19/us/19immigrant.html?_r=1&n=Top%2FReference%2FTimes%20Topics%2FSubjects%2FI%2FIllegal%20Immigrants&oref=slogin with revolutionary optimism, Jennifer Karmin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 08:00:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: heidi arnold MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline --signing off i will be away and offline for the indefinite Luddite future best regards to all, h ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 10:45:27 -0400 Reply-To: Martha Deed Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Martha Deed Subject: Intersections a twenty-day journal of the unexpected, a pdf book by Martha Deed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This is an experiment with a project that looks more like a traditional book than most work I have done recently. However, it would be prohibitively expensive to print, because of the use of color-- so I took advantage of a few web techniques -- mainly hyperlinks -- to move beyond a flat printed page. If not for the additional possibilities of web publishing over book publishing, I am not even certain I would have thought of this project. Our imaginations -- or mine anyway -- are truly limited by the language we use to express our ideas. I.e. when in France long enough to begin "thinking in French," I have noticed that my limitations in speaking French severely limit my ability to reason in French. Martha Deed ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: Regina Pinto To: newsletter do Museu Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 12:26:21 AM Subject: [museum_newsletter] A new book, a new work / movie, a game and many photos / Um novo livro, , um novo trabalho / filme, um jogo e muitas fotos ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ NEWSLETTER DO MUSEU / MUSEUM"S NEWSLETTER É preciso estudar volapuque! It is necessary to study volapuque! ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Para esse final de semana: 1- Intersections a twenty-day journal of the unexpected, a pdf book by Martha Deed The Library of Marvels has another resident writer: Martha Deed. The library of Marvels (http://arteonline.arq.br/library.htm) is a collection of my electronic artist books and, sometimes, I invite some guest to stay there with me. The first one was Joel Weishaus with his excellent "Traces of the Catacombes", which I am sure all of you know very well . Now I am honored to have Martha Deed and her "Intersections a twenty-day journal of the unexpected", a pdf book at the library. To read this poetical book is a great suggestion to this weekend. Below an abstract by Martha Deed, the Author: ********* "Intersections a twenty-day journal of the unexpected" is a mix of poetry, texts, and photographs, and the constraint is that it is an imaginary trip down Route 62 from Niagara Falls, NY to El Paso, Texas. The actual Route 62 is more than 2,000 miles long, so I would "travel" approximately 100 miles a day. I wrote and "travelled" every day from April 11 - April 30, 2006, which was also the 20 days immediately preceding an important birthday, so it seemed a good time to stop and think. I could not have imagined what lay ahead. ********* Also you find this book at the museum's pdf library, at: http://arteonline.arq.br/museu/library_pdf/martha_deed.htm Comments will be welcome! ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 07:38:08 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabrielle Welford Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: <11d43b500608260500i2b3cbb3vdf8e2dae4c2cb8d3@mail.gmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT argh. does anyone have another way to get hold of heidi. i have friends in bogota and environs who i'm sure would like to meeet her and whom she would hopefully be happy to meet. best, g On Sat, 26 Aug 2006, heidi arnold wrote: > --signing off > > i will be away and offline for the indefinite Luddite future > > best regards to all, > > h > gabrielle welford welford@hawaii.edu Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.595 / Virus Database: 378 - Release Date: 2/25/2004 wilhelm reich anarcho-syndicalism gut/heart/head/earth ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 15:01:42 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Quartermain Subject: Re: NEW BOOK: The Fire In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Let me boost the publisher's sales pitch by saying the title essay of = Robin Blaser's THE FIRE is alone worth the price of admission ($30.00 paper) = -- it's one of the GREAT poetics essays of our time -- and the others are, well, terrific bonus. The retrieval of Mary Butts is essential, = especially for those who have forgotten or never read her, and overall the book is = FULL of news (not read Dudek? Read Blaser, then go buy Dudek, yes, and keep = him by your bed (where you will read him) for a wonderful leisurely year). = And Miriam Nichols's editing is scrupulously exact, indeed enviably so. Not = a wasted word in this book, and thought for and of a lifetime. November will bring (also from California) the super bonus, Blaser's THE HOLY FOREST, with a bunch of new poems in it. From what I can see, it's = only available (to begin with) in hardcover, at $45.00. Save up! Splurge! = Blaser is one of the few poets who seem to have solved the problems involved writing political poems. But that's only a part of it. He's funny, = moving, angry, loving, and every step of the way he's the scholar-poet exploring = the world, and the language the world is. Life-work. No question, he's a = really terrific poet, and the publication of this book solves pretty well the whole of my Christmas-present list. Peter =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Peter Quartermain 846 Keefer Street Vancouver BC Canada V6A 1Y7 604 255 8274 (voice) 604 255 8204 fax quarterm@interchange.ubc.ca =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] = On Behalf Of L Guevarra Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 1:14 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: NEW BOOK: The Fire Dear Buffalo Poetics List: The University of California Press is pleased to announce the = publication of: The Fire: Collected Essays of Robin Blaser Robin Blaser is Professor Emeritus at Simon Fraser University. Among=20 his many books are _The Holy Forest _(UC Press), _Pell Mell, _and=20 _Syntax_. Miriam Nichols is College Professor at University College=20 of the Fraser Valley and editor of _Even on Sunday: Essays, Readings,=20 and Archival Materials on the Poetry and Poetics of Robin Blaser._ http://go.ucpress.edu/Blaser "In his exquisite articulations of the flowers of associational=20 thinking, Robin Blaser has turned knowledge into nowledge, the 'wild=20 logos' of the cosmic companionship of the real."-Charles Bernstein,=20 author of _Republics of Reality: 1975-1995_ Spanning four decades of meditation on the avant-garde in poetry,=20 art, and philosophy, the essays collected in _The Fire _reveal Robin=20 Blaser's strikingly fresh perspective on "New American" poets,=20 deconstructive philosophies, current events, and the state of=20 humanities now. The essays, gathered in one volume for the first=20 time, include commentaries on Jack Spicer, Charles Olson, Robert=20 Duncan, Mary Butts, George Bowering, Louis Dudek, Christos Dikeakos,=20 and J. S. Bach. Blaser emerged from the "Berkeley Renaissance" of the 1940s and 1950s=20 having studied under legendary medieval scholar Ernst Kantorowicz and=20 having been a major participant in the burgeoning literary scene. His=20 response to the cultural and political events of his time has been to=20 construct a poetic voice that offers a singular perspective on a=20 shareable world-and to pose that voice alongside others as a source=20 of countermemory and potential agency. Conceived as conversations,=20 these essays brilliantly reflect that ethos as they re-read the=20 cultural events of the past fifty years. Full information about the bookis available online:=20 http://go.ucpress.edu/Blaser ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 22:57:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Slaughter, William" Subject: Notice: Mudlark MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit New and On View: Mudlark Poster No. 63 (2006) Five Poems by Peter Waldor Peter Waldor lives in New Jersey where he works in the insurance business. His poems are forthcoming in American Poetry Review, Iowa Review, West Branch, Sugar Mule, and Margie. Spread the word. Far and wide, William Slaughter MUDLARK An Electronic Journal of Poetry & Poetics Never in and never out of print... E-mail: mudlark@unf.edu URL: http://www.unf.edu/mudlark ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 00:18:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Lundwall Subject: melancholia's tremulous dreadlocks issue 3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed the third issue of melancholia's tremulous dreadlocks is online now, featuring work by: annmarie eldon - diana magallon - gina myers - gm quinte - matina stamatakis - jerome rothenberg - logan ryan smith - mark lamoureux - noah falck - ray hsu - mark wallace - richard meier - brane mozetic - noah eli gordon http://www.melancholiastremulousdreadlocks.com melancholia's tremulous dreadlocks is a bi-weekly journal of poetry and curious bits co-edited by andrew lundwall and francois luong... _________________________________________________________________ All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day trial! http://www.windowsonecare.com/trial.aspx?sc_cid=msn_hotmail ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 02:35:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Ciccariello Subject: The death of literature in bronze and etched stone MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline The death of literature in bronze and etched stone -- Peter Ciccariello Image - http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 00:43:55 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christine Hamm Subject: Re: melancholia's tremulous dreadlocks issue 3 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Looks great! Christine Hamm __________________ Buy my book or risk losing your thumbs. www.lulu.com/sharpNpencil __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 01:33:09 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: birth of letterature In-Reply-To: <8f3fdbad0608262335q7fb41cdcx83376dabe62ae373@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit birth of letterature: http://vispo.com/E/ABCArchitectureL.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 11:47:24 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Re: NEW BOOK: The Fire In-Reply-To: <000101c6c95b$39ffa520$095e17cf@Diogenes> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Let me chime in here & say that not one word of what Peter said is an =20= exaggeration. For me these two books will be the books of 2006 -- no =20 doubt about it. I have been waiting impatiently for the Collected =20 Essays for years now. A must must read. -- Pierre On Aug 27, 2006, at 12:01 AM, Peter Quartermain wrote: > Let me boost the publisher's sales pitch by saying the title essay =20 > of Robin > Blaser's THE FIRE is alone worth the price of admission ($30.00 =20 > paper) -- > it's one of the GREAT poetics essays of our time -- and the others =20 > are, > well, terrific bonus. The retrieval of Mary Butts is essential, =20 > especially > for those who have forgotten or never read her, and overall the =20 > book is FULL > of news (not read Dudek? Read Blaser, then go buy Dudek, yes, and =20 > keep him > by your bed (where you will read him) for a wonderful leisurely =20 > year). And > Miriam Nichols's editing is scrupulously exact, indeed enviably so. =20= > Not a > wasted word in this book, and thought for and of a lifetime. > > November will bring (also from California) the super bonus, =20 > Blaser's THE > HOLY FOREST, with a bunch of new poems in it. =46rom what I can see, =20= > it's only > available (to begin with) in hardcover, at $45.00. Save up! =20 > Splurge! Blaser > is one of the few poets who seem to have solved the problems involved > writing political poems. But that's only a part of it. He's funny, =20 > moving, > angry, loving, and every step of the way he's the scholar-poet =20 > exploring the > world, and the language the world is. Life-work. No question, he's =20 > a really > terrific poet, and the publication of this book solves pretty well =20= > the > whole of my Christmas-present list. > > Peter > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > Peter Quartermain > 846 Keefer Street > Vancouver > BC Canada V6A 1Y7 > 604 255 8274 (voice) > 604 255 8204 fax > quarterm@interchange.ubc.ca > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group =20 > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > Behalf Of L Guevarra > Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 1:14 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: NEW BOOK: The Fire > > Dear Buffalo Poetics List: > > > The University of California Press is pleased to announce the =20 > publication > of: > > The Fire: Collected Essays of Robin Blaser > > Robin Blaser is Professor Emeritus at Simon Fraser University. Among > his many books are _The Holy Forest _(UC Press), _Pell Mell, _and > _Syntax_. Miriam Nichols is College Professor at University College > of the Fraser Valley and editor of _Even on Sunday: Essays, Readings, > and Archival Materials on the Poetry and Poetics of Robin Blaser._ > > http://go.ucpress.edu/Blaser > > "In his exquisite articulations of the flowers of associational > thinking, Robin Blaser has turned knowledge into nowledge, the 'wild > logos' of the cosmic companionship of the real."-Charles Bernstein, > author of _Republics of Reality: 1975-1995_ > > > Spanning four decades of meditation on the avant-garde in poetry, > art, and philosophy, the essays collected in _The Fire _reveal Robin > Blaser's strikingly fresh perspective on "New American" poets, > deconstructive philosophies, current events, and the state of > humanities now. The essays, gathered in one volume for the first > time, include commentaries on Jack Spicer, Charles Olson, Robert > Duncan, Mary Butts, George Bowering, Louis Dudek, Christos Dikeakos, > and J. S. Bach. > Blaser emerged from the "Berkeley Renaissance" of the 1940s and 1950s > having studied under legendary medieval scholar Ernst Kantorowicz and > having been a major participant in the burgeoning literary scene. His > response to the cultural and political events of his time has been to > construct a poetic voice that offers a singular perspective on a > shareable world-and to pose that voice alongside others as a source > of countermemory and potential agency. Conceived as conversations, > these essays brilliantly reflect that ethos as they re-read the > cultural events of the past fifty years. > > Full information about the bookis available online: > http://go.ucpress.edu/Blaser =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism,since it is the merger of state and corporate power." =97 Benito Mussolini =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D Pierre Joris 244 Elm Street Albany NY 12202 home: 518 442-4071 cell: 518 225 7123 office: 518 442 40 85 Paris: 01 43 54 95 13 French cell: 06 75 43 57 10 email: joris@albany.edu http://pierrejoris.com Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 09:57:54 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ian davidson Subject: PartlyinRiga Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hello everybody I'm spending August in Riga, Latvia as part of the Literature Across Frontiers 'Sealines' project hosted by the Latvian Literature Centre. Sone of my wanderings so far have resulted in the work at: http://partlyinriga.wikispaces.com I'll be adding to it as the month goes on. Any comments or observations welcome. Ian ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 03:10:25 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Nelson Subject: The Poetry Cube is live and seeking entries MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks to all those who offered their advice and poetics to the first version of the poetry cube. We have worked out some bugs, redesigned a few things and are now sending this out again for your thoughts and poetics. The Poetry Cube (the first of three interactive digital poetic machines) acts as a bridge for print poets to rethink/create/write their poems in a 3-D, multi-dimensional, multi-linear form. We havent yet figured out how many different combinations one 16 lines poem creates once entered into the Poetry Cube, so explore and play and tell us your thoughts on how it makes you rethink your writing. THE URL: http://www.secrettechnology.com/poem_cube/poemcube.html Oh and please do send this url around....we need to rigorously test this creature. cheers, Jason Nelson --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 07:11:07 -0400 Reply-To: pmetres@jcu.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Philip Metres Subject: Heidi, poetry and pacifism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Heidi, on the untouched thread of poetry and pacifism. I didn't enter into the poetry and politics discussion, simply because I'm tearing my hair out trying to do my tenure dossier, take care of two young kids, prepare for semester, and finish my book, "Behind the Lines: War Resistance Poetry on the American Homefront, Since 1941." Which is why I'm responding to you. The problem with the framing of "poetry" and "politics" is that the discussion remained far too abstract for my taste. Poets have long engaged in a symbiotic relationship with social movements, and my study on poets and the peace movement marks the ways in which poets negotiate their relationship between pacifist audiences and the nation at large. Some strong examples that I consider are: from WWII William Everson's War Elegies, his "Chronicle of Division," William Stafford's poetry (throughout his career, as well as his memoir of life in a conscientious objector camp during WWIII), Robert Lowell's elliptical and self- lacerating "Memories of West Street and Lepke." from Vietnam Denise Levertov's work throughout her career, from The Sorrow Dance through her Vietnam poems, etc. Plus the plethora of antiwar verse from Bly, Ginsberg, Rich, MacLow, Daniel Berrigan, John Balaban, Sonia Sanchez, and many many others from the Gulf War Barrett Watten's Bad History William Heyen's Ribbons: The Gulf War and many other anthologies and individual poems Recent work spans the gamut, though I much appreciated in 2003 Brian Kim Stefans' site "Circulars," anthologies edited by Leslie Scalapino, Kent Johnson's chapbook "Lyric Poetry after Auschwitz," Mike Magee's "Political Song (Confused Voicing)", the plethora of other anthologies out there, Bob Perelman's poem about Dick Cheney's mind (the title evades me now--it echoes Ginsberg's Wichita Vortex Sutra in some strange way). Anyway, it's pretty clear that if we define pacifism as resistance to war (and not necessarily all wars, but limited pacifism being resistance to a particular war), that you have much to choose from. Sincerely, Philip Metres Assistant Professor Department of English John Carroll University 20700 N. Park Blvd University Heights, OH 44118 (216) 397-4528 (work) http://www.philipmetres.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 12:27:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Phil Primeau Subject: words without image (Chap Release) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline http://www.freewebs.com/persistenciapress/pprimeau_wwoi.pdf New from PERSISTENCIA*PRESS . . . words without image by Phil Primeau "experiments in pure language" From the chap . . . who can be that or this it's all just so why being is how not what words without image is available both in print and online. http://www.freewebs.com/persistenciapress/pprimeau_wwoi.pdf To request a hard copy, e-mail PERSISTENCIA at persistencia_press@yahoo.com. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 09:41:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Small Press Traffic Subject: Traffic # 2 on its way MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear friends, I am very excited to tell you that Traffic # 2 is at the printer with great work from Alice Notley, Tonya Foster, Medbh McGuckian, Elizabeth Marie Young, Leslie Scalapino, Joanna Fuhrman, Jules Boykoff, Nicole Cooley, Steffi Drewes, Mary Burger, Alicia Cohen, Shanxing Wang and Nada Gordon.... as well as an interview with (and cover art by) Yedda Morrison, an editor's forum on poetry & women's embodiment with responses from Carol Mirakove, Nada Gordon, Reid Gomez, Christine Hume, Leslie Scalapino, Sarah Anne Cox, K. Lorraine Graham & Jessica Smith, Susana Gardner, Dana Teen Lomax & solidad decosta..... Plus these essays -Alice Notley, Leslie Scalapino, and the Better-World Thought Experiment by Catherine Wagner -'The camp circle was on the move again': mobility & continuity in Stein, Cather, and Deloria by Carol Treadwell -Attending Other Reals: Political Poetry Beyond Realism by Joyelle McSweeney -Lyric Creatures: New Poetics & the Animal by Alicia Cohen & reviews of new books by Etel Adnan, Andrea Baker, Jules Boykoff, Todd Colby, Joanna Fuhrman, Arielle Greenberg, Aaron Kiely, Noelle Kocot, David Larsen, Bernadette Mayer, Carol Mirakove, Beth Murray, Juliana Spahr, Chris Tysh, and the anthology Bay Poetics 225 pages, $10 ppd. Make checks to SPT and mail to the address below. Thanks a million! Special offer: order supersoon and we will send you a copy of Issue # 1 as well! contributors & SPT members can pick up their free copies at our big event Sept 15 (more on that shortly) or send us a note to mail one or two (unless you live in another state and that's obvious!). Elizabeth Treadwell, Director Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center at CCA 1111 -- 8th Street San Francisco, CA 94107 415.551.9278 http://www.sptraffic.org ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 18:38:51 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: LAST CALL on THIS Ques. -- Has anyone ever used a blurb in a bio In-Reply-To: <004501c6c864$4dad0fb0$6501a8c0@KASIA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Yes, Eileen Tabios is just incredible, she asked for blurbs and look at how many she received..., not only, she will write ONE book to fit them all, have a look here: http://blurbproject.blogspot.com/ On 8/25/06, Catherine Daly wrote: > > interesting you ask, since many of the factory school books have no bios, > tho some of them do; none have blurbs because there was some author > discussion about trying to forgo them -- but in the website info about the > books, Carol Mirakove and Kristin Prevallet have blurbs or reviewlets > (generally this sort of stuff is written by the author, so in this case, > re-placing the blurb here is more interesting than it might seem on the > surface) > > and the blue lion books have no bios or blurbs or photos, tho some do have > some descriptive text on the website > > then, or course, there's Jukka-Pekka Kervanen's ? I think book of blurbs > -- > if I'm getting it right, he wrote a blurb template for somebody, but then > ended up writing a book of blurbs. > > Eileen Tabios solicited blurbs (on this list), and then was writing a book > to the blurbs. > > part of the glory of job-hunting with an MFA is that other MFAs in other > arts may have reviews at a quite early stage, while as a writer, you are > less likely to have this type of comment; then you go to interviews and > unlike in the visual arts where it seems people are more cognizant of > galleries, curators, collectors, and teachers, you may even have a book or > two, and the interviewers don't know the press, the blurbers, the review > organs, so I've ended up trying to "sell" the press and the reviews (as I > haven't won any grants, fellowships, or prizes) -- you know, well, there's > no reason you'd have heard of Salt, they're not [local press x, or not > Harper Collins], but here's who they are, and what American Book Review is > -- it seems to me to be irresponsible to be making a creative writing hire > and know nothing about small press publishing > > All best, > Catherine > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 13:18:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eric Yost Subject: Re: The death of literature in bronze and etched stone In-Reply-To: <8f3fdbad0608262335q7fb41cdcx83376dabe62ae373@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>The death of literature in bronze and etched stone Very nice images. Someone should lay a copy of Ronald Sukenick's _The Death of the Novel and Other Stories_ at the foot of the tombstone. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 13:52:33 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eric Yost Subject: Re: Heidi, poetry and pacifism In-Reply-To: <44F1DBB8.1000102@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Philip wrote: Anyway, it's pretty clear that if we define pacifism as resistance to war (and not necessarily all wars, but limited pacifism being resistance to a particular war), that you have much to choose from. Well put. Richard Wilbur, for example, supported the ousting of the Taliban in Afghanistan, but opposed the war in Iraq. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 13:57:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: NEW BOOK: The Fire MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit including my book of course ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 14:24:05 -0400 Reply-To: az421@freenet.carleton.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: mclennan & Brockwell in the UK (venue change) Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT (venue change!) London England: rob mclennan reads with Maurice Sculley at the "Crossing the Line" series at The Lamb, September 1, 2006; 92-94 Lamb's Conduit Street, London WC1 (near Great Ormond Street Hopsital - local landmark - nearest tubes Holborn or Russell Square). 7:30pm. Info: David Miller at katermurr_uk@yahoo.co.uk Cardiff Wales: rob mclennan & Stephen Brockwell read in the Glanfa foyer of the Wales Millennium Centre, September 6, 2006; Bute Place, Cardiff CF10 5AL Wales. 7pm. Info: Elinor Robson at elinor@academi.org http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/2006/08/mclennan-bute-place-cardiff-cf10-5al.html -- poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics (Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...11th coll'n - name , an errant (Stride, UK) .... c/o 858 Somerset St W, Ottawa ON K1R 6R7 * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 14:17:04 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: JF Quackenbush Subject: Re: The Poetry Cube is live and seeking entries In-Reply-To: <20060827101025.27761.qmail@web30208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Very cool! I enjoyed that a lot. I think the one thing it's really missing is the diagonals. That is, I couldn't figure out how to get the first line from the front, the second line from the shallow middle, the third line from the deep middle, and the last line from the back as a single set of four lines, and I very much would like to be able to do that. Sort of turn the cube on it's corner and look at it on angle, reading front to back one line, then two lines, then however many lines you get until the number starts shrinking again. also, the thing that struck me as the most pertinent was that this cube thing is very much akin to received form, and it's a difficult one to write in. Writing in it was very much like writing something like a pantoum or villanelle in that I had the same sort of feeling about the nature of repetition and the need for things to fit together in a structured way. I even found myself imposing greater dimensions of structure, albeit fairly arbitrarily, just to see what would happen. I think as an experiment I wasn't entirely unsuccessful, but I think it would be much easier to think about the final product if the color coding of the various layers were in some way present in the composition application, so you could see at least a starting point of how the two dimensional writing became three dimensional, at least partially. The whole thing reminded me a great deal of hinton cubes, and the idea of representations of higher dimensions in lower dimensions, which became part of my subject matter. I don't know if that's necessarily because of the form of the composition or if it's because I've been sort of entranced by hypercubes lately. those are my thoughts, hope they're helpful in some way. yrs, JFQ Jason Nelson wrote: > Thanks to all those who offered their advice and poetics to the > first version of the poetry cube. We have worked out some bugs, > redesigned a few things and are now sending this out again for your > thoughts and poetics. > > The Poetry Cube (the first of three interactive digital poetic machines) > acts as a bridge for print poets to rethink/create/write their poems in a 3-D, multi-dimensional, multi-linear form. We havent yet figured out how many different combinations one 16 lines poem creates once entered into the Poetry Cube, so explore and play and tell us your thoughts on how it makes you rethink your writing. > > THE URL: http://www.secrettechnology.com/poem_cube/poemcube.html > > Oh and please do send this url around....we need to rigorously test this creature. > > cheers, Jason Nelson > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 14:53:07 -0700 Reply-To: ishaq1824@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: 1942-2006 Robert McCullough, civil rights organizer MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT 1942-2006 Robert McCullough, civil rights organizer By Kathy Durkin Published Aug 24, 2006 10:11 PM 18 year-old Robert McCullough. 18 year-old Robert McCullough. On Aug. 7, Robert Louis McCullough died at the age of 64 in Rock Hill, S.C., where as an African-American student organizer during the 1960s, he helped to make history in a landmark struggle against racism. McCullough was born and raised in Rock Hill, a textile manufacturing center near Charlotte. In 1957, two years after the historic Montgomery bus boycott, the African-American community carried out the Rock Hill bus boycott, which shut down that city’s segregated bus company. Inspired by the growing movement against racist Jim Crow laws and practices in the South, African-American students held a historic sit-in at the segregated Woolworth’s lunch counter in Greensboro, N.C. on February 1, 1960, followed by six months of protests which won desegregated lunch counters there. The Greensboro actions set off demonstrations all over the South, including in Rock Hill, where Black students marched for a year along that city’s Main Street. Eleven days after the ground-breaking Greensboro action, 100 African-American youth, mainly students at Friendship Junior College, held the first South Carolina sit-ins at Rock Hill’s Woolworth’s and McCrory’s lunch counters, followed by a year-long campaign there. McCullough helped to organize a key protest in Rock Hill. His fellow student participants appointed him as their leader. As his fellow activist David Williamson explained, “He did all the detail work and made sure everything was in place.” On January 31, 1961, 18-year-old McCullough, along with eight other African-American students from Friend ship and one civil rights organizer, sat in at the “whites-only” lunch counter at McCrory’s. They demanded service, which they were denied. Arrested and tried on the official charges of “trespassing” and “breach of peace,” these courageous young men were guilty only of seeking justice and an end to racist discrimination. But these activists brought a new tactic to this struggle. They pledged among themselves to go to jail rather than pay fines or bail, which had been the practice of previous sit-in protestors. When faced with paying a $100 fine each or 30-day sentences at the York County Prison Farm with forced labor on a chain gang, nine of them went to prison. That they faced imprisonment or fines for fighting for justice was the real crime. Racist prison officials saw to it that McCullough and seven of his fellow activists served some time in solitary confinement, where they subsisted on bread and water. The jailers were furious that they refused orders to stop singing civil rights songs while daily loading 36 truckloads of dirt on the roadside chain gang. “This was the first time anyone had served full sentences in the sit-in movement,” commented historian Howard Zinn. The struggle of the Friendship Nine proved to be a vital part of the civil rights movement and inspired many youth. After their jailing, four Student Nonviolent Coordi nating Committee (SNCC) organizers went to Rock Hill to be arrested in solidarity with them. They sat in at McCrory’s, were arrested and imprisoned. Then 100 activists went to jail in other cities, after similar anti-racist protests. The “Jail, No Bail” stand taken by the Friendship Nine “made electrifying news” within the civil rights movement, wrote Taylor Branch in “Parting the Waters: America in the King Years 1954-63.” Besides putting political pressure on the racist power structure, it put financial pressure on them as well. Branch explains that this tactic “obligated the white authorities to pay for [protesters’] jail space and food.” Also significant was the press coverage, particularly in the Baltimore Afro-American Newspaper, and the mass support mobilized for the Friendship Nine. The African-American community organized big, rousing meetings. Picketers lined the street outside McCrory’s. SNCC mobilized mass protests bringing African-American students from other cities. Motorcades drove to the prison farm. Protesters even went to Washington, D.C. Picketing continued in Rock Hill for a month after the Nine were released. Robert Louis McCullough, whom fellow activists described as “our teacher” and called “our general” because of his leadership and strategic skills, left a legacy of struggle and courage. Upon his death, they recalled that he said to them while planning their bold action in 1961, that they were doing it “for all of humanity.” They also recollected that at a recent Friendship Nine reunion he said to them, “If we had to do it again, we’d do it again.” The monumental civil rights struggle was marked by great courage, boldness, organization, and untold sacrifices by many. The Friendship Nine were a vital part of that history. Sources for this article include Student Non-Violent Coordinating Committee (SNCC) Timeline at www.crmvet.org. This article is copyright under a Creative Commons License. Workers World, 55 W. 17 St., NY, NY 10011 Email: ww@workers.org Subscribe wwnews-subscribe@workersworld.net Support independent news http://www.workers.org/orders/donate.php Source URL: http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=node/2284 -- Stay Strong -"I testified/My mama cried/Black people died/When the other man lied" -- chuck d "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as) \ "We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit to a process of humiliation." --patrick o'neil \ "...we have the responsibility to make no deal with the oppressor" --harry belafonte \ "...in time, we will look back to this age with incredulity and amazement -- and victories like Hamas in Israel will be the *best* of our memories." -- mumia abu jamal -- "what state? what union?" "...these people generate wars in Asia and Africa,...These are the people who, in the last century, caused several devastating wars. In one world war alone, they killed over 60 million people.... In the near future, Allah willing, we will put you to trial in courts established by the peoples...."-- mahmoud ahmadinejad \ http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a047braithwaite.php http://cleveland.indymedia.org/uploads/2006/07/olivet___h.a.t.s_in_the_square___loud_ruffa1b.mp3 \ http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7255.php \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date \ http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/en_fins__clichy-sous_bois_amixquiet-_lordpatch_the_giver__.mp3 \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ \ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 15:01:15 -0700 Reply-To: ishaq1824@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: Hezbollah leader calls for =?windows-1252?Q?=91united_front__against_imperialism=92?= MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Hezbollah leader calls for ‘united front against imperialism’ Published Aug 23, 2006 11:05 PM It is rare that readers inside the imperialist countries, especially in the U.S., get the opportunity to read and hear the voices of people’s resistance due to the blatant censorship of the big business media. Therefore, Workers World is reprinting excerpts from an Aug. 14 interview with Hezbollah leader Sayyed Hasan Nasrallah that appeared in its entirety on the Turkish Party of Labor website, www.emep.org. Roza Cigdem Erdogan and Mutlu Sahin, reporters with the Turkish daily, Evrensel, conducted the interview in Beirut. Turkish Daily: Israel had claimed its aim was to destroy Hezbollah in the first days of the occupation of Lebanon. How ever, it came across a resistance it did not expect and now it has been falling short of this aim. Through violent clashes, the occupying army continues to suffer heavy loses. But this is not covered sufficiently by the media. Hasan Nasrallah: They are writing that they are bombing the Hezbollah positions and are deceiving the peoples. As you have witnessed personally, this is a big lie! They are martyring the innocent civilians. But, we are routing the Zionists wherever we come across them. We are acting cautiously, and are not firing rockets on civilians. By claiming that we are firing rockets on urban settlements, they are seeking to deceive the peoples of the world. But we are firing rockets under control on to locations we identified before. They are deliberately driving the Israeli Arabs to the border. They are presenting them as a target to us, but we are not playing into provocation and mischief. Our target is not the civilians; it is the Zionist military forces. Our fighters are routing extensively the Zionist forces in the land operation. But they should also know that we have still not used our important weapons. The Zionists, knowing that they cannot daunt us with death, are attempting to destroy our infrastructure, our roads, bridges, our women and children. This is how they are trying to intimidate us. But, it is all futile, we will not surrender! Apart from the freedom of our motherland, we will not accept any other solution. We will resist and we will fight. Imperialism and its Zionist contractors in the region should know that we are waiting for the Zionists on every hill, every valley, every street and every inch of our country. Our resistance necessitates victory. We have no other way. This war will end with the victory of the oppressed of the world and of the Muslims. Is it possible for Lebanon to face once again the threat of a civil war? Not only in Lebanon, but also in the region as a whole, the Zionist regime is seeking polarization with the tension between ethnic groups, sects and beliefs. Their strategy of attacking our country also confirms this. But, the Hezbollah has spoiled this game. The oppressed peoples of our country and of the Middle East have come to the defense of Hezbollah and have provided their support. The socialists and Christians are included in this. What is the current state of your relations with the socialist movement? The socialist movement, which has been away from international struggle now for a considerable time, at last began to become a moral support for us once again. The most concrete example of this has been Hugo Chávez, the president of Venezuela. What most of the Muslim states could not do has been done by Chávez by the withdrawal of their ambassador to Israel. He furthermore com municated to us his support for our resistance. This has been an immense source of morale for us. We can observe a similar reaction within the Turkish Revolutionary Movement. We had socialist brothers from Turkey who went to Palestine in the 1960s to fight against Israel. And one of them still remains in my memory and my heart—Deniz Gezmis [founder of the People’s Liberation Army of Turkey—WW] ...! It is possible to see the posters of Che, Chávez, Ahmadinejad and Hezbollah side by side in the streets of Beirut. Are these the signs of a new polarization? We salute the leaders and the peoples of Latin America. They have resisted heroically against the American bandits and have been a source of morale for us. They are guiding the way for the oppressed peoples. Go and wander around our streets...! You will witness how our people have embraced Chávez and Ernesto Che Gue vara. Nearly in every house, you will come across posters of Che or Chávez. What we are saying to our socialist friends who want to fight together with us for fraternity and freedom, do not come at all if you are going to say religion is an opiate. We do not agree with this analysis. Here is the biggest proof of this in our streets with the pictures of Chávez, Che, Sadr and Hamaney waving along together. These leaders are saluting our people in unison. So long as we respect your beliefs, and you respect ours, there is no imperialist power we cannot defeat! Western governments are intensifying their pressure on Damascus and Tehran for which they are proposing a change of regime. Some sources are of the view that the attack on Lebanon will be directed on Syria. Is a regional war possible? The centers of imperialist power want to make collaborators of our region as a whole. They expect us to kneel before them. Syria, Iran and we are opposing this. The provocation concerning the former Leba nese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri and the efforts to secure the withdrawal of the Syrian army from Lebanon and going even further, their wish to attack callously on to Tehran and Damascus are all due to this reason. Syria, with Iran and Hezbollah will certainly resist this. The imperialists of the west are seeking to make a second Kosovo out of Lebanon and our region. They are seeking to create a clash between sects. But we have spoiled this trick. In our streets, the whole of Lebanon, with its Christians, Sunnis and Shias, are flying the flags of Hezbollah. Again, the unipolar world has already been left back in history. There is us, there is Iran, there is Syria, there is Vene zuela, Cuba and North Korea. There are the resisting peoples of Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan! As long as there is imperialism and occupations, these people will continue resisting. They can forget about peace. If they want peace, they should now respect the freedom of peoples and should eliminate the collaborating gangs. God willing, the victory will be ours. They are not going to be able to turn our country and region into a Kosovo. Now our people are aware of everything and will not play into imperialist tricks. We will absolutely not permit them to attack Iran or Syria. We are going to fight for our freedom to the last drop of our blood. Let no one doubt this. They are claiming that Iran has nuclear wea pons at its disposal. On the contrary, most of the nuclear weapons are in the hands of the collaborating gang of Israel and the U.S. Furthermore, nuclear wea pons are nothing but excuses put forward in order to create collaborating regimes in the region. There are claims that Hezbollah is being directed by Tehran. This is a great lie. We are an independent Lebanese organization. We do not take orders from anyone. But this does not mean that we are not going to form alli ances. Let me reiterate, we are on a side. We are on the side of Iran and Syria. They are our brothers. We are going to oppose any attack directed at Tehran and Dama scus to the last drop of our blood just as we do in Lebanon. We uphold global resistance against global imperial terrorism. Peace cannot be unilateral. So long as there is imperialism in the world, a permanent peace is impossible. This war will not come to an end as long as there are occupations in Iraq, Afghanistan and Palestine. This article is copyright under a Creative Commons License. Workers World, 55 W. 17 St., NY, NY 10011 Email: ww@workers.org Subscribe wwnews-subscribe@workersworld.net Support independent news http://www.workers.org/orders/donate.php site promotion Source URL: http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=node/2285 -- Stay Strong -"I testified/My mama cried/Black people died/When the other man lied" -- chuck d "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as) \ "We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit to a process of humiliation." --patrick o'neil \ "...we have the responsibility to make no deal with the oppressor" --harry belafonte \ "...in time, we will look back to this age with incredulity and amazement -- and victories like Hamas in Israel will be the *best* of our memories." -- mumia abu jamal -- "what state? what union?" "...these people generate wars in Asia and Africa,...These are the people who, in the last century, caused several devastating wars. In one world war alone, they killed over 60 million people.... In the near future, Allah willing, we will put you to trial in courts established by the peoples...."-- mahmoud ahmadinejad \ http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a047braithwaite.php http://cleveland.indymedia.org/uploads/2006/07/olivet___h.a.t.s_in_the_square___loud_ruffa1b.mp3 \ http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7255.php \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date \ http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/en_fins__clichy-sous_bois_amixquiet-_lordpatch_the_giver__.mp3 \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ \ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 20:56:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Ciccariello Subject: Re: The death of literature in bronze and etched stone In-Reply-To: <44F1D3EB.9030408@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Thanks for the comment Eric, and for the Sukenick Tip, hadn't heard of it. I will check it out. -Peter On 8/27/06, Eric Yost wrote: > > >>The death of literature in bronze and etched > stone > > Very nice images. Someone should lay a copy of Ronald > Sukenick's _The Death of the Novel and Other Stories_ at the > foot of the tombstone. > -- Image - http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/ Word -http://poemsfromprovidence.blogspot.com/ Photography -http://uncommonvision.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 00:19:57 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jon Leon Subject: Leon / Wolf Books MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear Poets: A Projection of Frankensex (Gateway Songbooks, 2006) by Allyssa Wolf is for a limited-time available for order . RIGHT NOW THE MUSIC AND THE LIFE RULE (238.8589, 2006) by Jon Leon is for a limited-time available for order . Enjoy the Freedom Jon Leon ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 22:10:07 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: looking for arteroidal texts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I've been revisiting and adding to/revising a piece i did that is never finished called Arteroids. The new version isn't up yet, but the older version is at http://vispo.com/arteroids You'll note that when you 'lose' or 'win', a text is displayed. Below are the texts that the program draws on in that situation. The texts are short--they need to be short--because of the context. The subjects of the texts are game, art, play, and poetry. Other of the texts say something specific about the player having won or lost. If you have any additions to this text, I'd appreciate it. I'd quote you like the others are quoted, of course. Thanks, ja on beginsprite me gMessageManager=spritenum sprite(gMessageManager).visible=TRUE pLevelTitles=[] repeat with i= 1 to sprite(gScoreModeAndLevelManager).pNumberOfModes pLevelTitles.append(sprite(gUserDataManager).getTextName3(i)) end repeat a=QUOTE & "It's a piece of cake until you get to the top. You find you can't stop playing the game the way you've always played it." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Richard M. Nixon" b="You are on the demolition squad." c="Arteroids as poem." d="Way to go." e="Well done, " & sprite(gUserDataManager).getUserName() & "." f="You maxed out the meanometer." g="An odd achievement." h="Poetry momentarily triumphs over the forces of dullness." i="Poetry survived. Next, save poetry from yourself." j="Texts severely edited." k="This is a language machine." l="Part poem, part twitch." m=QUOTE & "The man who has no problems is out of the game." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Elbert Hubbard" n=QUOTE & "Here one must think of writing as a game within language." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Of Derrida" o="Shoot for art." p="Those texts will think twice next time." q="Flamed." r=QUOTE & "Politics is not a game. It is an earnest business." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Winston Churchill" s="How does it feel, " & sprite(gUserDataManager).getUserName() & "?" t="Score one for strange poetry." u=QUOTE & "The divine games of life and imagination give free rein to a totally new poetic activity." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Guillaume Apollinaire" v="Closure successfully manufactured." w="Meanometer maxed." x="Poetry is not a game somebody wins. But we can muse together, " & sprite(gUserDataManager).getUserName() & ", on poetry and games." y="Word as object." z="You word warrior you." aa="If you want to be a popular artist, suffer fools gladly." ab="Arteroids is violent? What would Martin Scorcese say?" ac=QUOTE & "When the game is over it is really just beginning." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Jerry Kramer" ad="At low speed you can read the text. At high levels, it's pure computer game." ae="Dynamically arrayed disarray." af="Satisfaction. Dissatisfaction." ag="Texts driven back to the primal perception." ah="It's an odd feeling to 'win' at this game/poem." ai="Something has happened to language!" aj="Worst word warrior: a political hack." ak=QUOTE & "I listen to kids play a lot." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Itzhak Perlman" al="Poetry is the art of being vague." am="You open a book. It's a game. You open your life. Have some fun." an="You type among the broken shards of language." ao="What are we doing to language?" ap="What could it mean?" aq="Like a net.art sand mandala." ar="Action poem?" as="Poetry is the art of being profoundly vague." at="This is the funky chicken of poetry." au="You can play levels you've passed again if you want." av="Mix it all up." aw="What is revealed when the word is cracked open?" ax="What have you authored?" ay="Tip: at level 216 you need to shoot 52 texts." az="Poetry created and destroyed." ba="Sort of like music in that there's a rhythm." bb="Sort of like music in that you dance/groove to music." bc="Cool. You made it." bd="You win." be="Pause. Enjoy." bf="Well done." bg="We like music and games for similar reasons." bh="Tip: try moving vertically through the game." bi="Tip: the arteroids appear from the sides, not top and bottom." bj="Tip: the game is over when the meanometer reaches the top of the stage." bk="Tip: to play again, just press a key." bl="I wanted to make this literary machine a real game." bm="Fire and war were Heraclitus's editors." bn=QUOTE & "Play is the exultation of the possible." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Martin Buber" bo="Tip: in Play Mode, click 'edit' to create your own texts." bp="At low levels of play, Arteroids is readable more like we read normally." bq="We read differently now." br="Poetry in motion." bs="The idea is to drive poetry in dangerous directions." bt=QUOTE & "The better the coaching has become, the worse the game has become." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Scotty Bowman" bu="The poetry machine." bv="You have triumphed over obstreperous texts." bw=QUOTE & "What is sport to the cat is death to the mouse." & QUOTE & RETURN & "German proverb" bx="You have ascended the poem." by="Only " & string(216 - sprite(gScoreModeAndLevelManager).returnClosestLowerLevel()) & " more levels to go." bz="Tip: close other programs. Arteroids needs all the juice it can get." ca="Tip: make the browser smaller for higher scores." cb=QUOTE & "Whatever games are played with us, we must play no games with ourselves, but deal in our privacy with the last honesty and truth." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Ralph Waldo Emerson" cc=QUOTE & "Games are a compromise between intimacy and keeping intimacy away." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Eric Berne" cd=QUOTE & "By amusing myself with all these games, all this nonsense, all these picture puzzles, I became famous. I am only a public entertainer who has understood his time." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Pablo Picasso" ce=QUOTE & "All my games were political games; I was, like Joan of Arc, perpetually being burned at the stake." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Indira Gandhi" cf=QUOTE & "A stereotyped but unconscious despair is concealed even under what are called the games and amusements of mankind." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Henry David Thoreau" cg=QUOTE & "In love, in art, in avarice, in politics, in labor, in games, we study to utter our painful secret." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Ralph Waldo Emerson" ch=QUOTE & "This is a war universe. War all the time. That is its nature. There may be other universes based on all sorts of other principles, but ours seems to be based on war and games." & QUOTE & RETURN & "William S. Burroughs" ci=QUOTE & "A play there is, my lord, some ten words long, which is as brief as I have known a play, but by ten words, my lord, it is too long, which makes it tedious." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Shakespeare" cj=QUOTE & "To play is nothing but the imitative substitution of a pleasurable, superfluous and voluntary action for a serious, necessary, imperative and difficult one." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Max J. Friedländer" ck=QUOTE & "Play for young children is not recreation activity,... It is not leisure-time activity nor escape activity.... Play is thinking time for young children. It is language time. Problem-solving time." & QUOTE & RETURN & "James L. Hymes, Jr." cl=QUOTE & "To play safe, I prefer to accept only one type of power: the power of art over trash, the triumph of magic over the brute." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Vladimir Nabokov" cm=QUOTE & "Thank God this isn t a play. Critics can kill a play. But not a hotel." & QUOTE & RETURN & "John Portman" cn=QUOTE & "Blues is easy to play, but hard to feel." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Jimi Hendrix" co=QUOTE & "With foxes we must play the fox." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Thomas Fuller" cp=QUOTE & "Poet, be seated at the piano. Play the present, its hoo-hoo-hoo, its shoo-shoo-shoo, its ric-a-nic, its envious cachinnation." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Wallace Stevens" cq=QUOTE & "There is something shameful about the death of a play. It doesn't die with pity, but contempt." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Mary Roberts Reinhart" cr=QUOTE & "As History stands, it is a sort of Chinese Play, without end and without lesson." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Henry Brooks Adams" cs=QUOTE & "You have a blue guitar, you do not play things as they are." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Wallace Stevens" ct=QUOTE & "There comes a point in many people’s lives when they can no longer play the role they have chosen for themselves." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Brian Moore" cu=QUOTE & "The true object of all human life is play. Earth is a task garden; heaven is a playground." & QUOTE & RETURN & "G.K. Chesterton" cv=QUOTE & "If A is success in life, then A equals x plus y plus z. Work is x; y is play; and z is keeping your mouth shut." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Albert Einstein" cw=QUOTE & "A Judge may play a little at cards for his own amusement; but he is not to play at marbles..." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Samuel Johnson" cx=QUOTE & "An assassin is never entirely assassin. They play a role, you understand. While a dead man, he is really dead." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Jean-Paul Sarte" cy=QUOTE & "War's a game which, were their subjects wise, Kings would not play at." & QUOTE & RETURN & "William Cowper" cz=QUOTE & "The finest poetry was first experience." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Ralph Waldo Emerson" da="What you think and feel about art is as important as what anybody else thinks and feels about it." db="The idea here is to explore the relations of poetry, game, art and play. And have some fun." dc="Try 'Word for Weirdos' in 'play mode' if you haven't already." dd="That there are no absolute rules in art is scary but exciting." de="I confess that poems about poetry are my favorite kind." df="Even when poems aren't about poetry they're about poetry." dg=QUOTE & "A poem is a machine made out of words." & QUOTE & RETURN & "W.C. Williams" dh=QUOTE & "Most of the poets I've known aren't poets anymore." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Al Purdy" di="If you only get the idea of Arteroids as poem, you're doing OK." dj="This whole thing is a literary machine." dk="Literary machines are made out of language." dl="There's no proof we aren't fundamentally machines." dm="If we're machines, that only shows how complex and strange machines can be." dn="Poems are permitted to be profoundly vague, unlike many other types of writing." do="What poems mean is partly--maybe mostly--what you make of them. So be bold. Be daring. But don't be stupid." dp="What people tell you is important about poetry is what's important to them." dq="Poetry is no longer just words on a page." dr="Even computer games that don't have any language in them are written things." ds="If we don't smarten up we'll blow ourselves off the planet or poison the whole world." dt="Are computers helping us live better lives?" du="There's no escape from your responsibilities. So get on with them." dv=QUOTE & "It's never just a game when you're winning." & QUOTE & RETURN & "George Carlin" dw=QUOTE & "A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Groucho Marx" dx=QUOTE & "The game of life is not so much in holding a good hand as playing a poor hand well." & QUOTE & RETURN & "H.T. Leslie" dy=QUOTE & "What we play is life." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Louis Armstrong" dz=QUOTE & "Politics isn't about big money or power games; it's about the improvement of people's lives." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Paul Wellstone" ea="Listen to what other people say about art, but it's up to you to make up your own mind." eb="There's two types of power: your own, and the type that can be bestowed on you by others. Which do you want?" ec="Art as game is the politics of social relations." ed="When the academies have too much power in matters of art, no one else is interested." ee="Because there are no absolute rules about art, the notion of what art is best is empty." ef="Although the notion of the 'best art' is empty, artists want to be seen as the best. This is the tacky game of art." eg="Art is almost as idiotic as TV but for different reasons. TV speaks too much to a demographic. Art speaks too much to only the artist." eh="The poets are the generalists of language arts." ei="I once heard a well-known curator say 'An artist without a gallery is nothing'. A publisher might say the same of an author. But that needs to change, and it is, via the Internet." ej=QUOTE & "My favourite poem is the one that starts 'Thirty days hath September' because it actually tells you something." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Groucho Marx" ek=QUOTE & "We are called to be architects of the future, not its victims." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Buckminster Fuller" el="This piece is about the poetics of literary machines." em="Arteroids integrates talk about poetics into the activity of playing a computer game and tries to look closely at that activity. This can be done with any activity." en="Artists can't compete with big games companies, but artists can make better concept games, more thoughtful and rewarding games." eo="Art as game is about who gets to continue making art." ep="You can take any activity and integrate thoughtfulness into it." theWinners=[a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,i,j,k,l,m,n,o,p,q,r,s,t,u,v,w,x,y,z,aa,ab,ac,a d,ae,af,ag,ah,ai,aj,ak,al,am,an,ao,ap,aq,ar,as,at,au,av,aw,ax,ay,az,da,db,dc ,dd,de,df,dg,dh,di,dj,dk,dl,dm,dn,do,dp,dq,dr,ds,dt,du,dv,dw,dx,dy,dz,ea,eb, ec,ed,ee,ef,eg,eh,ei,ej,ek,el,em,en,eo,ep] po2=[ba,bb,bc,bd,be,bf,bg,bh,bi,bj,bk,bl,bm,bn,bo,bp,bq,br,bs,bt,bu,bv,bw, bx,by,bz, ca, cb, cc, cd, ce, cf, cg, ch, ci, cj, ck, cl, cm, cn, co, cp, cq, cr, cs, ct, cu, cv, cw, cx, cy, cz] repeat with i=1 to po2.count theWinners.append(po2[i]) end repeat pCommentTexts=[theWinners, theWinners] --GAME MODE DEATH NOTICES a="Poetry is not a game somebody wins." b="The battle of poetry against itself and the forces of dullness." c="Score one for the forces of dullness." d="Go write a sonnett." e="Rewrite your notions of poetry." f="We live many lives in this one." g="The critics have savaged you." h="Slagged" i="Words with legs." j="So much for poetry." k="Poetry has suffered another blow." l="Usually the game part of poetry is in prizes, awards, honours, etc." m="Poetry passed away " & the long date & ", " & the long time & "." n=QUOTE & "Play is the father of invention." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Roger von Oech" o="You're blasted, " & sprite(gUserDataManager).getUserName() & "." p="Poetry has suffered as never before." q="Oops" r="Gotcha" s="Words have their own behaviors." t="You are experiencing your own thought forms." & RETURN & RETURN & "Play again?" u="Poetry will suffer this without loss." v="Poor old poetry." w="Loss. Pain." x="The score is in your mind." y="You're dead." z="Just use the keyboard." aa=sprite(gUserDataManager).getUserName() & ", you're dead but you don't look too bad!" ab="Little death. Play again?" ac="Meaning is enigma n." ad="Poetry has been tormented mercilessly. Play again?" ae="The idea is to muse with you during the experience." af="Is this a broadening of poetry or a reduction? Or something else?" ag="You've been flamed down to the ground." ah="Hello " & sprite(gUserDataManager).getUserName() & "." & RETURN & " You appear to be toast." ai="Is this content?" aj=QUOTE & "My problem with chess was my pieces wanted to end the game as soon as possible." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Dave Barry" ak="Take poetry boldly where no gink has gone before." al="Language problems." am="It is safe to die now." an="Should poetry go here?" ao=QUOTE & "Don't play what's there, play what's not there." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Miles Davis" ap="Are you feeling a bit deleted?" aq="I'm sorry. You were Daffy Duck in another life." ar=QUOTE & "The future of the book is the blurb." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Marshall McLuhan" as="You might wonder." at=QUOTE & "We're going to suffer for a long-term improvement, and that's the name of the game." & QUOTE & RETURN & "James Lovelock" au="If a poem happened in conversation, would we recognize it?" av="A light touch. Like typing." & RETURN & RETURN & "Bang bang." & RETURN & RETURN & "Ooo. Little death." aw="What is inside words cracked open?" ax=QUOTE & "No honest poet can ever feel sure of the permanent value of what he has written." & QUOTE & RETURN & "T.S. Eliot" ay="Tip: turn up the sound!" az="Literary engine." ba=QUOTE & "My work is a game, a very serious game." & QUOTE & RETURN & "M.C. Escher" bb="Oh maybe we should just leave poetry alone." bc="The net writers have answered your email." bd="Afterlife" & RETURN & "before you die." be="Afterlife. Play again, " & sprite(gUserDataManager).getUserName() & "?" bf="Bitstream bits dream." bg="Epitaph epigraph." bh="Poetry is now invisible." bi="Dandelion seeds." bj="Language cracked open." & RETURN & "Fix it?" & RETURN & "Let it bleed?" bk="It does not look good for poetry." bl="The relation between poetry and game is tense." bm="The challenge of poetry." bn="Poetry expired from hardening of the arteroids. Take a walk." bo="There are more defeats in a lifetime than victories." bp="a" & RETURN & "aa" & RETURN & "aaa" & RETURN & "aaaa" & RETURN & "aaaaa" & RETURN & "aaaaaa" & RETURN & "aaaaa" & RETURN & "aaaa" & RETURN & "aaa" & RETURN & "aa" & RETURN & "a" bq="Words jumping off the page." br="Crack language open." bs="O " & sprite(gUserDataManager).getUserName() & ", I seek the body electric in vain!" bt="Breathe." bu="Sing." bv="Fire." bw="Shoot for art." bx="Ascend the 216 bardoroids." by="Will this piece be dated in thirty years? Or even playable?" bz="I feel for you in your beleagered poetry ship." ca="Tip: shoot accurately for higher scores." cb="We see now that texts have always had behavior." cc="The middleground between art and game is play." cd="Bummer." ce="Ouch." cf="Let's just say you are no longer suffering." cg="Tip: try Play Mode to learn how to drive the red id-entity." ch="Tip: if you experience problems, click anywhere on the screen and try again." ci="There is winning" & RETURN & "there is losing." & RETURN & "But which is which" & RETURN & "is confusing." & RETURN & RETURN & "Tip: you lost." cj="Arteroids prepares you for poetry in 2050." ck="You have been rewritten by words with legs." cl="A poem from 2050 or a computer game from 1980?" cm="Nasty" cn="Losing is for winners and losers." co="Winning is for winners and losers." cp="You haven't hit the ground." cq="Our greatest victories are of the spirit." cr="Poetry is an action." cs="When the word cracks open, the future spills out." ct="When the word cracks open, what is revealed?" cu="Deepest condolences." cv="Get well soon." cw="Let's just say you are currently between lives." cx="It is never" & RETURN & "the thing we want," & RETURN & "but the feeling" & RETURN & "we think the thing" & RETURN & "will give us." cy="You're a winner." & RETURN & "You're a loser." & RETURN & "You're a human being." cz="How many times" & RETURN & "do we win" & RETURN & "in one life?" & RETURN & RETURN & "And how many times" & RETURN & "do we lose?" & RETURN & RETURN & "Oh, uh, add 1" & RETURN & "on the 'lose' side." da="You will now be reincarnated as a post-print poet." db="Some play Arteroids to win. Others play it like a book of poems. Others write in it like a notebook." dc="Ten lashes with a wet noodle." dd="You have to lose a few to win." de="Deconstructed" df="What's in a word?" dg="Do not fear for poetry." dh="Battle on, " & sprite(gUserDataManager).getUserName() & "." di="Have you considered taking up tiddly winks?" dj=QUOTE & "The rules of drinking games are taken more seriously than the rules of war." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Chinese proverb" dk="These texts do not argue." & RETURN & "They execute." dl="Art is not a game. But there's lots of jockeying for position." dm="Even if you don't read you read." dn=QUOTE & "Men in the game are blind to what men looking on see clearly." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Chinese proverb" dp="What is poetry?" dq="You coulda been a contender." dr="Road kill." ds="Can this be fun and also poetry?" dt="The poetics of death." du="Poetry must die occassionally." dv="I am ambivalent also." dw="Book of firecrackers!" dx="Should poetry be good for society?" dy="Too many wars." dz=QUOTE & "If I could read it, I could play it." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Nat King Cole" ea="Shoot for art." eb="Language wears out. Like technology?" ec="Language is a technology." ed="Technology consists of tools made by people." ee="Language draws a magic circle around the realm of the thinkable." ef="This is where your friends carry you out." eg="Let's just say you've been pulped." eh="Because poetry must deal with it." ei=QUOTE & "Don't play the saxophone. Let it play you." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Charlie Parker" ej="I wish for you that you win laughter." ek="I wish for you that you win pleasure." el="Because arteroids are animisms." em="There's rhythm in game and music." en="I wish for you that you win your love." eo="The net is a set of cruising texts." ep="Beware the psycho text." eq="Like email wars." er="Let's see who can be happy first--one, two three, go!" es="Valiant try, I'm sure." et="O my." eu="While you are playing, just use the keyboard." ev="The fate of poetry is in your hands. Defeat the forces of dullness." ew="You get savaged by the odd text." ex="Nothing inherantly shoot-em-up about the code of a shoot-em-up." ey="Because art attracts pretenders." ez="How do game and poetry relate?" fa="How do game and play relate?" fb="Imagine a textual being." fc="How do poetry and art relate?" fd="How do poetry and play relate?" fe="How do play and art relate?" ff="Dancing/grooving is to music as playing is to game." fg="How do poetry and programming relate?" fh="It's a pity you didn't know, when you started your game of murder, that I was playing too." fi="Under erasure." fj="Fragged." fk="Seek the experience." fl="Road-kill in the communications revolution." fm="This is the part where they say nice things about you." fn="Is this bad for poetry?" fo="Way to go, Shakespeare." fp="Shoot for poetry." fq="In the beginning was the word. And the word grew legs, and yea, you're toast." fr="Deconstructed id-entity." fs="This will eventually be the world's first addictive poem." ft="Dedicated to those who would prefer to die but are curious about what happens next." fu="May you live a long and intense life! Start over?" fv="The battle of poetry against itself and the forces of dullness." fw="How do programming and art relate?" fx="new language <=> new mind <=> new media" fy="new(language <=> mind <=> media)" fz="language <=> mind <=> media" ga="Art is dead. Art is reborn..." gb="Who are you playing to, in your mind?" gc="The cosmic drama of birth, death, and generation." gd="Brains are made out of language?" & RETURN & "Computers are made out of logic?" ge="The cosmic play." gf="The cosmic game." gg="Character is fate." gh="What does how we imagine dying say about us?" gi=QUOTE & "Time is a child playing at dice; the kingdom is a child's." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Heraclitus" gj=QUOTE & "Attention is the soul's prayer." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Paul Celan" gk="Art is dead" & RETURN & "but sneaks out for fun." gl="Art is invisible:" & RETURN & "look at the paintings." gm="Art is dead." & RETURN & "Accept no substitutes." gn="Art is invisible," & RETURN & "slips past the borders." gp="Post-electrocution poetry." gq="Poetry is the ghost in the machine." gr="Please take the poetics further." gs="Dissatisfaction is the aunty of invention." gt="Shoot for the experience." gu="Shoot for enlightenment." gv="Shoot for the beautiful." gw="Shoot for new art." gx="Shoot for understanding." gy="Shoot for contemplation." gz="Shoot for excitement." ha="We live many lives in this one." hb=QUOTE & "Life is like a game of cards. The hand you are dealt is determinism; the way you play it is free will." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Jawaharlal Nehru" hc="What you think and feel is the main thing." hd="Take poetry in dangerous directions." he="Writing is now a larger thing." hf="Poetry is about intense engagement with language." hg=QUOTE & "We continue to think to continue." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Joseph F. Keppler" hh="There are more failures in a lifetime than victories." hi="It is the world that you love, after all, is it not?" hj="Don't let the bastards get you down." hk="Play vertically. Vertical poetry." hl="In this game you usually shoot from the margins." hm=QUOTE & "Sometimes you have to play a long time to be able to play like yourself." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Miles Davis" hn="Writing lets the dead keep talking." ho="Writing glues eras together." hp="Writing disembodies knowledge." hq="Poetry is intensest language." hr="Poetry matters for inner strength and civilization's capacity with language." hs="Writing must be capable of our full vitality." ht="Writing is everywhere." & RETURN & "On the wall." & RETURN & "On the screen." & RETURN & "In the neath text." & RETURN & "In the code..." hu="Be not afraid of new things." hv="Be not afraid of what you do not understand." hw="Throw away your preconceptions about poetry." hx="Poetry is intensest language wherever it's found." hy="How far writing goes in the structure of things remains to be seen." hz="Some people love it, some hate it." ia=QUOTE & "My aim is to teach you to pass from a piece of disguised nonsense to something that is patent nonsense." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Wittgenstein" ib="What do computer games matter in society?" ic="Computer games in interactive idioms." id="Computer games show kids how to use/relate with a computer." ie="Computers need to be driven like a game needs to be played." ig="The main action in a game is not on the board/screen." ih="Games can be of contemplation as well as action." ii="Time compressor. Many births. Many deaths." ij=QUOTE & "Love is a game that two can play and both win." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Eva Gabor" ik="What you will think about later is game and art." il="Poetry is important because we are the deepest of language machines." im="Our humanity, our nature, and our language are inseparable." io="This is a hypertext. The arrow keys navigate instantaneous 'links'." ip="Computer games should raise consciousness. And be fun." iq="Computer literacy and poetical literacy should not be strangers." ir="Levels of game and levels of play differ." is="Those blue texts pursue you like crazed list wankers." it="Poetry gets into other arts like smoke in the air." iu="Art is an entrance into mystery." iv="Game is not just literary device here." iw="Computer games need shades of gray." ix="We write text, sound, images, code..." iy="Because we are great pretenders." iz=QUOTE & "Art is a dream for awakened minds." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Plato" ja="Formal systems and games are not without relation." jb="Because it is what you make of it." jc="Shoot for laughter." jd=QUOTE & "Poetry communicates before it's understood," & QUOTE & RETURN & "T.S. Eliot." je="Because you are so toasty." jf="We drive computers. We drive texts we write." jg="How do you feel, " & sprite(gUserDataManager).getUserName() & "?" jh="At low speeds this is a kinetic poem thang." ji="At high speeds this is pure video game." jj="The art of games is intersticial." jk=QUOTE & "Story in games is like story in pornos. It's expected to be there, but it's not that important." & QUOTE & RETURN & "John Carmack" jl="The art of games must add to mystery." jm=QUOTE & "The video games are one step before a whole other virtual universe." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Vin Diesel" jn="The art of game is like drama." jo="The art of game is like poetry." jp="The art of game is the way a painting unfolds." jq="The art of game is the way music patterns the air." jr="Do not confuse art and game. We're all winners and losers in art." jt="Gobbled up by texts." ju="When my apartment burned down one night, I saw the wheel turn behind the flames." jv="We delight in the wheel of fortune in games." jw=QUOTE & "The tragic hero prefers death to prudence. The comedian prefers playing tricks to winning. Only the villain really plays to win." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Mason Cooley" jx=QUOTE & "There's always something suspect about an intellectual on the winning side." & QUOTE & RETURN & "Vaclav Havel" jy="Poetry will not die so long as there is an inner voice." jz="We are creators, dreamers, and players of the cosmic game." ka="Number is language, language number." kb="Poetics of rebirth." kc="Holy snappin language machines, " & sprite(gUserDataManager).getUserName() & "!" kd="What you think and feel about art is as important as what anybody else thinks and feels about it." ke="Art is a rigged game." kf="This is it." kg="Ankle-biter texts got you." kh=sprite(gUserDataManager).getUserName() & ", " & sprite(gUserDataManager).getUserName() & ", " & sprite(gUserDataManager).getUserName() & "." ki=QUOTE & "Mathematics is a game of simple rules with meaningless symbols." & QUOTE & RETURN & "David Hilbert" kj="The goal is to max out the Meanometer." kk="The mystery is how language makes us what we are." kl="The mystery is that we can be language machines." km="The mystery is how we encode language and language encodes us." kn="The mystery is how language has its own behavior." ko="This is a game of message passing." kp="Respite from the text." kq="There are no absolute rules in art." kr="This game is always in progress." ks="Textually dysfunctional." kt="Play the guitar" & RETURN & "play the recording" & RETURN & "play the game." ku="Rise of the language machines." kv="Those texts are relentless." kw=QUOTE & "Literature is a record of barbarism," & QUOTE & RETURN & "Terry Eagleton." kx="The meaning is a bit different since 9/11." ky="Terrorism will persist when power is oppressive." kz="Exe.cuted." gameModeDeathNotices1= [a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,i,j,k,l,m,n,o,p,q,r,s,t,u,v,w,x,y,z] gameModeDeathNotices2= [aa,ab,ac,ad,ae,af,ag,ah,ai,aj,ak,al,am,an,ao,ap,aq,ar,as,at,au,av,aw,ax,ay, az] gameModeDeathNotices3= [ba,bb,bc,bd,be,bf,bg,bh,bi,bj,bk,bl,bm,bn,bo,bp,bq,br,bs,bt,bu,bv,bw,bx,by, bz] gameModeDeathNotices4= [ca,cb,cc,cd,ce,cf,cg,ch,ci,cj,ck,cl,cm,cn,co,cp,cq,cr,cs,ct,cu,cv,cw,cx,cy, cz] gameModeDeathNotices5= [da,db,dc,dd,de,df,dg,dh,di,dj,dk,dl,dm,dn,dp,dq,dr,ds,dt,du,dv,dw,dx,dy,dz] gameModeDeathNotices6= [ea,eb,ec,ed,ee,ef,eg,eh,ei,ej,ek,el,em,en,eo,ep,eq,er,es,et,eu,ev,ew,ex,ey, ez] gameModeDeathNotices7= [fa,fb,fc,fd,fe,ff,fg,fh,fi,fj,fk,fl,fm,fn,fo,fp,fq,fr,fs,ft,fu,fv,fw,fx,fy, fz] gameModeDeathNotices8= [ga,gb,gc,gd,ge,gf,gg,gh,gi,gj,gk,gl,gm,gn,gp,gq,gr,gs,gt,gu,gv,gw,gx,gy,gz] gameModeDeathNotices9= [ha,hb,hc,hd,he,hf,hg,hh,hi,hj,hk,hl,hm,hn,ho,hp,hq,hr,hs,ht,hu,hv,hw,hx,hy, hz] gameModeDeathNotices10=[ia,ib,ic,id,ie,ig,ih,ii,ij,ik,il,im,io,ip,iq,ir,is ,it,iu,iv,iw,ix,iy,iz] gameModeDeathNotices11=[ja,jb,jc,jd,je,jf,jg,jh,ji,jj,jk,jl,jm,jn,jo,jp,jq ,jr,jt,ju,jv,jw,jx,jy,jz] gameModeDeathNotices12=[ka,kb,kc,kd,ke,kf,kg,kh,ki,kj,kk,kl,km,kn,ko,kp,kq ,kr,ks,kt,ku,kv,kw,kx,ky,kz] pGameModeDeathNotices=[] repeat with i=1 to gameModeDeathNotices1.count pGameModeDeathNotices.append(gameModeDeathNotices1[i]) end repeat repeat with i=1 to gameModeDeathNotices2.count pGameModeDeathNotices.append(gameModeDeathNotices2[i]) end repeat repeat with i=1 to gameModeDeathNotices3.count pGameModeDeathNotices.append(gameModeDeathNotices3[i]) end repeat repeat with i=1 to gameModeDeathNotices4.count pGameModeDeathNotices.append(gameModeDeathNotices4[i]) end repeat repeat with i=1 to gameModeDeathNotices5.count pGameModeDeathNotices.append(gameModeDeathNotices5[i]) end repeat repeat with i=1 to gameModeDeathNotices6.count pGameModeDeathNotices.append(gameModeDeathNotices6[i]) end repeat repeat with i=1 to gameModeDeathNotices7.count pGameModeDeathNotices.append(gameModeDeathNotices7[i]) end repeat repeat with i=1 to gameModeDeathNotices8.count pGameModeDeathNotices.append(gameModeDeathNotices8[i]) end repeat repeat with i=1 to gameModeDeathNotices9.count pGameModeDeathNotices.append(gameModeDeathNotices9[i]) end repeat repeat with i=1 to gameModeDeathNotices10.count pGameModeDeathNotices.append(gameModeDeathNotices10[i]) end repeat repeat with i=1 to gameModeDeathNotices11.count pGameModeDeathNotices.append(gameModeDeathNotices11[i]) end repeat repeat with i=1 to gameModeDeathNotices12.count pGameModeDeathNotices.append(gameModeDeathNotices12[i]) end repeat pDeathNotices=[pGameModeDeathNotices,pGameModeDeathNotices] pCommentTextsCount=[] pDeathNoticesCount=[] repeat with i = 1 to pCommentTexts.count pCommentTextsCount.append(pCommentTexts[i].count) end repeat repeat with i = 1 to pDeathNotices.count pDeathNoticesCount.append(pDeathNotices[i].count) end repeat put pDeathNoticesCount end beginsprite ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 00:56:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Fw: Fw: submit to level: socially conscious poetry Comments: To: wryting-l@listserv.wvu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit here's the initial schpiel from that journal folks send work NOW about level: socially conscious poetry level is an online project committed to publishing poems that display a social consciousness of the issues in our everyday lives. Mission The mission of levelpoetry.com is to use poetry to further a populist discussion of modern cultural issues. The editors are seeking writing by poets from America's modern diverse traditions. There is a tide currently that is pushing poetry back into the mainstream. In his 1991 essay "Can Poetry Matter?" Dana Gioia wrote: "It is time to experiment, time to leave the well-ordered but stuffy classroom, time to restore a vulgar vitality to poetry and unleash the energy now trapped in the subculture." In his recent Poetry 180 project, Billy Collins sought to have poetry disseminated to high school students without academic pressure, simply giving them daily readings on the morning announcements. The National Endowment for the Arts' Poetry Out Loud program gives students the opportunity to win college scholarships by competing on the classroom, school, state and then national levels by giving the most effective readings of poems they choose from a wide array of poets and styles. These sorts of ideas are what level is about: helping to bring poetry back into mainstream life, free of academic classroom pressure, free of expectations, and free from heavy canonical constraints. level is also about furthering a current, real world discussion by also publishing interviews that contain well-thought-out ideas on poetry and social consciousness. level is not a forum for railing against the government, directionless Bush-bashing, partisan rants, or quasi-intellectual foreign policy discussions. Too often the solutions for social issues are sought in legislation and public policy -- one lesson of the Civil Rights movement is changing the laws is one thing but changing minds is another. The editors value high quality writing by undergraduate and graduate students because those young people should not be turned away for being young. Submissions level is an online project committed to publishing poems that display a social consciousness of the issues in our everyday lives. What are the editors looking for? "Socially conscious" means being aware of the reality around you. It could mean many things, like community building, discussing a complex problem, or demanding public attention for a real social issue. Good and effective social commentary is not vague. It is specific and it addresses the issue. Socially conscious writing is not just name-calling, tirading against a war, jabbing at a political party, or fingerpointing. Don't think "government" or "corporation." Think "people." If you need examples, read some poems in "From Totems to Hip-Hop" edited by Ishmael Reed. For Unsolicited Poems Send 2-3 poems to level@levelpoetry.com and Put "poetry submission" in the subject line of the e-mail. In the body of the message, provide the poems and a 100-250 word synopsis of what you have written and why you think it fits in level. No attachments at all, ever! Only e-mail submissions are accepted. Provide a valid e-mail address that you actually check for a response. For Unsolicited Interviews Query first! via e-mail with "Interview query" in the e-mail's subject line. Interviews must be fully transcribed and accompanied by an authenticity statement swearing on your granny's grave that the transcript is totally accurate. Interviews should be with poets or poetry publishers speaking on issues of social consciousness and poetry. Suggestions for submitting writers: Don't try sending 20 poems broken down into 10 e-mails. Send 2-3 poems, and wait for answer. Before submitting consider signing up for our mailing list. If you don't want to hear from us, we might not want to hear from you either. Send a cover letter that makes us believe that we want to work with you. Being terse and unfriendly won't make us believe that. You'll hear back about your work. If you haven't heard back within three months of submitting, inquire (politely) via e-mail. The only thing worse than a bad writer is a belligerent writer. Simultaneous submissions are not accepted. Either send your work to level or to someone else. Payment and Rights level does not pay at this point. level retains first North American rights. A work published in level may not be re-published in North America prior to one calendar year after the release date of the work. Students: The editors of level encourage submissions from undergraduate and graduate students. Although level is not dedicated to student writing, their participation is encouraged. (You must be 18 years of age or older in order to sign a contract to publish.) The Editors Foster Dickson is currently the creative writing teacher at Booker T. Washington Magnet High School and a graduate student in Liberal Arts. To read more about him, click here. Ceci Gray is currently on the English faculty at Huntingdon College. To read more about her, click here. "I have long admired Ron Whitehead. He is crazy as nine loons and his poetry is a dazzling mix of folk wisdom & pure mathematics." Hunter S. Thompson www.tappingmyownphone.com www.kydigitalmedia.com (click on News) Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 09:48:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: susan maurer Subject: hegullah megullah Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed anybody know what hegullah megullah means or some such spelling? i came across it in a collection of folk tales, made note of it and did not make note of the meaning. i ve exhausted most obvious means of searching. a reunion with its meaning would be a delight. meant to chime in when the discussion about politics in poems was going on that it just seems bizarre than to some "political" poetry is taboo. a good poem is a good poem whatever its subject matter.susan maurer _________________________________________________________________ Call friends with PC-to-PC calling -- FREE http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=wlmailtagline ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 10:06:18 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mike Luster Subject: Re: hegullah megullah MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Don't know about the two words together. "Gantse Megillah" is Yiddish for an overly long speech. "Hagullah" is a celebratory dance of Libya and Egypt. So the phrase might be a paste up of Yiddish and Arabic for something like a very long celebration. does that make sense? mike J. Michael Luster, Ph.D Arkansas Folklife Program Arkansas State University PO Box 102 Mammoth Spring, AR 72554 417-938-4633 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 10:09:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: susan maurer Subject: Re: hegullah megullah In-Reply-To: <2e2.c66fc36.3224525a@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed mike thnaks so much for the response ill ponder it but i appreciate yr resonding. im sure im not alone that such questions can be quite and itch, susan maurer >From: Mike Luster >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: hegullah megullah >Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 10:06:18 EDT > >Don't know about the two words together. "Gantse Megillah" is Yiddish for >an >overly long speech. "Hagullah" is a celebratory dance of Libya and Egypt. >So >the phrase might be a paste up of Yiddish and Arabic for something like a >very >long celebration. does that make sense? > >mike > >J. Michael Luster, Ph.D >Arkansas Folklife Program >Arkansas State University >PO Box 102 >Mammoth Spring, AR 72554 > >417-938-4633 _________________________________________________________________ Get real-time traffic reports with Windows Live Local Search http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=42.336065~-109.392273&style=r&lvl=4&scene=3712634&trfc=1 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 09:19:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: Re: hegullah megullah In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >>"Gantse Megillah" is Yiddish for an overly long speech. Actually, this is the slang usage -- originally it referred to the scriptural reading of the Book of Esther (Megillat Esther) on the spring holiday of Purim. Jews are supposed to hear the "complete scroll" (_di gantse megillah_) twice over the course of the holiday. Since it takes about half an hour to 45 minutes to read the entire scroll out loud, this took on the meaning of reading/declaiming for a long time, hence the slang use of the term. I recently found a similar etymology for "sockdolager," which is the coup de grace that finishes off an opponent (American English still uses the expression widely in the term "sock" -- sock it to me!)... from what I've read, the original term comes from a folk mis-spelling/-hearing of "doxology," which is supposed to be the last portion of a church service before the folks get to go home. so from this comes the meaning of a "finishing blow" that closes off the service - boxing match - agon -whatever. sei gezint, people... tl -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of susan maurer Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 9:10 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: hegullah megullah mike thnaks so much for the response ill ponder it but i appreciate yr=20 resonding. im sure im not alone that such questions can be quite and itch,=20 susan maurer >From: Mike Luster >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: hegullah megullah >Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 10:06:18 EDT > >Don't know about the two words together. "Gantse Megillah" is Yiddish for=20 >an >overly long speech. "Hagullah" is a celebratory dance of Libya and Egypt.=20 >So >the phrase might be a paste up of Yiddish and Arabic for something like a=20 >very >long celebration. does that make sense? > >mike > >J. Michael Luster, Ph.D >Arkansas Folklife Program >Arkansas State University >PO Box 102 >Mammoth Spring, AR 72554 > >417-938-4633 _________________________________________________________________ Get real-time traffic reports with Windows Live Local Search =20 http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=3D2&cp=3D42.336065~-109.392273&style= =3Dr& lvl=3D4&scene=3D3712634&trfc=3D1 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 11:10:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Ciccariello Subject: Re: birth of letterature In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I loved this one. I expect to hear "Thus Spake Zarathustra" in the background. -Peter Ciccariello On 8/27/06, Jim Andrews wrote: > > birth of letterature: > http://vispo.com/E/ABCArchitectureL.html > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 10:32:13 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Murphy Subject: Building a Database of Women Visual Poets Comments: To: pog MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Good morning, all! Kathy Ernst and I have conferred about upcoming projects regarding the presentation of female visual poets. We are looking to build a database of contact information for women on several continents, so that we may look at what is possible relative to exhibitions (likely, a traveling exhibition initially) and books that would go with same. Specific calls for work will follow, but for now we want to accumulate a "who's who" compendium. I would appreciate your circulating widely a call for the following information and sending the information to me backchannel at: sheila dot murphy at gmail dot com We mainly want: Name Mailing Address Email Address Any further information about media in which the visual poet works, great, too. If everyone can respond with known individuals, including yourselves, it will be appreciated. The goal is to obtain as comprehensive a list of (1) living women visual poets who have done visual poetry in the latter half of hte 20th Century and (2) women who are actively working in visual poetry now. Definition of visual poetry is deliberately open. Thanks! Sheila Murphy ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 13:35:07 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Stefans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've unpacked my Kiss records and the five volume Collected Poems of F.T. Prince and left a few of my very own rings around the bathtub. I've pet cats, I've pet dogs, I've bad-mouthed babies. I've also been propositioned by a prostitute at 10 a.m. as I strolled down the street holding a large Duncan Donuts coffee in one hand and a sausage/egg/cheese croissant in the other. I'm home. Home being my new Philadelphia address: 193 North 16th St. Apt. 3 Philadelphia, PA 19130 My number is the same: 917 689-6450. New York friends, prepare for a lot of make-up visits and watching Phillies games in smokeless bars with me as I am just a $12 Chinee bus away. Love, Brian Oh, and buy my muthafuckin' book to read on the muthafuckin' plane when you come to visit me (it's snake proof): http://www.factoryschool.org/pubs/heretical/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 13:37:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Stefans Subject: New address MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I didn't send this with a subject line the first time so I suspect it ended up in your spam box. here it is again. _____ From: Brian Stefans [mailto:bstefans@earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 1:35 PM To: 'Brian Stefans [arras.net]' Subject: I've unpacked my Kiss records and the five volume Collected Poems of F.T. Prince and left a few of my very own rings around the bathtub. I've pet cats, I've pet dogs, I've bad-mouthed babies. I've also been propositioned by a prostitute at 10 a.m. as I strolled down the street holding a large Duncan Donuts coffee in one hand and a sausage/egg/cheese croissant in the other. I'm home. Home being my new Philadelphia address: 193 North 16th St. Apt. 3 Philadelphia, PA 19130 My number is the same: 917 689-6450. New York friends, prepare for a lot of make-up visits and watching Phillies games in smokeless bars with me as I am just a $12 Chinee bus away. Love, Brian Oh, and buy my muthafuckin' book to read on the muthafuckin' plane when you come to visit me (it's snake proof): http://www.factoryschool.org/pubs/heretical/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 10:47:09 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: birth of letterature In-Reply-To: <8f3fdbad0608280810l5879889jc95e72e7612aec06@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > I loved this one. I expect to hear "Thus Spake Zarathustra" in the > background. Ha. Isadore Isou's http://www.thing.net/~grist/l&d/lettrist/isou-m.htm (1947) is sort of Zarathustrian in its tone of soaring discontent, only concerning poetics, not philosophy. Not in any concept of the 'Superman' a la Nietzsche, but this: "ISOU Will unmake words into their letters. Each poet will integrate everything into Everything Everything must be revealed by letters." Also, earlier than that is Apollinaire who, in his 1917 essay L'Esprit Nouveau et les Poetès, said: "Typographical artifices worked out with great audacity have the advantage of bringing to life a visual lyricism which was almost unknown before our age. These artifices can still go much further and achieve the synthesis of the arts, of music, painting, and literature ... One should not be astonished if, with only the means they have now at their disposal, they set themselves to preparing this new art (vaster than the plain art of words) in which, like conductors of an orchestra of unbelievable scope they will have at their disposal the entire world, its noises and its appearances, the thought and language of man, song, dance, all the arts and all the artifices, still more mirages than Morgane could summon up on the hill of Gibel, with which to compose the visible and unfolded book of the future.... Even if it is true that there is nothing new under the sun, the new spirit does not refrain from discovering new profundities in all this that is not new under the sun. Good sense is its guide, and this guide leads it into corners, if not new, at least unknown. But is there nothing new under the sun? It remains to be seen." Also, my friends in the Seattle visual poetry scene mainly of the eighties and nineties--Joe Keppler, Trudy Mercer, Geof Huth, Nico Vassilakis, margareta waterman, and others--practice an art of synthesis of arts and media--together with an intelligent discontent--and this was the more profound influence on me, I imagine, being close to home and personal. I started visiting Seattle in the eighties and lived there for four years in the nineties. I was living there when I did http://vispo.com/E/ABCArchitectureL.html around 1998 or 1999. They were OK with my trying to use things like Photoshop, CorelDraw/Paint, and then the DHTML and Director work. Their poetics of synthesis didn't rule it out. I felt at home there. But I suppose Nietszche's Zarathustra is in there too, amongst Isou, Apollinaire, and the Seattleites. Everybody knows that work, in some sense. I read it a long time ago more for its style, I think, than its content. I've been enjoying your work, Peter, as you post it to the list. It's distinctive in visual poetry. It's left the page though not abandoned it. And is possibly concerned as much with landscape painting art as with the page. People seem to see their own concerns in it, also, which is always 'a good sign'--it's generatively suggestive. I am hoping you will do some 3D literary machines, at some point. I think that getting a sense of the visual poetic possibs of 3D space is interesting. Your work is more developed than most other poetical work I've seen for the screen that approaches the 3D. Partly because you treat it as a continuum and as worldly, perhaps, rather than as page-like content arranged in 3D space. The shapes and the space are treated as being as of much interest as the linguistic element. ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 14:13:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Intern Subject: Poetics List Policies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline The Poetics List Sponsored by: The Electronic Poetry Center (SUNY-Buffalo/University of Pennsylvania) and the Regan Chair (Department of English, Penn) & Center for Program in Contemporary Writing (Penn) Poetics List Editorial Board: Charles Bernstein, Julia Bloch, Lori Emerson, Joel Kuszai, Nick Piombino Note: this Welcome message is also available at the EPC/@Buffalo page http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html Poetics Subscription Registration (required) poetics@buffalo.edu Poetics Subscription Requests: http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/archives/poetics.html Poetics Listserv Archive: http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/archives/poetics.html Note that any correspondence sent to the Poetics List administration account takes about ten days, for response; mail to this account is checked about once per week. C O N T E N T S: 1. About the Poetics List 2. Posting to the List 3. Subscriptions 4. Subscription Options 5. To Unsubscribe 6. Cautions -------------------------------------------- Above the world-weary horizons New obstacles for exchange arise Or unfold, O ye postmasters! 1. About the Poetics List With the preceding epigraph, the Poetics Listserv was founded by Charles Bernstein in late 1993. Now in its fourth incarnation, the list has about 1300 subscribers worldwide. We also have a substantial number of nonsubscribing readers, who access the list through our web site (see archive URL above). The Poetics List is not a forum for a general discussion of poetry or for the exchange of poems. Our aim is to support, inform, and extend those directions in poetry that are committed to innovations, renovations, and investigations of form and/or/as content, to the questioning of received forms and styles, and to the creation of the otherwise unimagined, untried, unexpected, improbable, and impossible. While we recognize that other lists may sponsor other possibilities for exchange, we request that those participating in this forum keep in mind the specialized and focused nature of this project and respect our decision to operate a moderated list. The Poetics List exists to support and encourage divergent points of view on innovative forms of modern and contemporary poetry and poetics, and we are committed to do what is necessary to preserve this space for such dialog. Due to the high number of subscribers, we no longer maintain the open format with which the list began (at under 100 subscribers). 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If they give permission, then we ask only that you say that the post or posts appeared originally on the Poetics List (http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html) on [give date and say:] Used by permission of the author. As an outside maximum, we will accept no more than 2 messages per day from any one subscriber. Also, given that our goal is a manageable list (manageable both for moderators and subscribers), the list accepts 50 or fewer messages per day. Like all systems, the listserv will sometimes be down: if you feel your message has been delayed or lost, *please wait at least one day to see if it shows up*, then check the archive to be sure the message is not posted there; if you still feel there is a problem, you may wish to contact the editors at . ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 13:42:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas Bell Subject: Jordan Davis MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit anybody have Jordan's email? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 14:54:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Intern Subject: From Gerard Greenway: Empson's 'Just a Smack at Auden' put to music MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ------------- Empson's 'Just a Smack at Auden' put to music Hello Poetics The band Cultural Amnesia have put Empson's 'Just a Smack at Auden' to music (retitled 'Waiting for the End'). To listen click on '2006' at the band's homepage: http://www.culturalamnesia.com or go to: http://www.culturalamnesia.com/albums.php?code=2006 Send the band comments at: info@culturalamnesia.com Best wishes Gerard ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 15:29:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Leaving. Goodbye. Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 I'm leaving the listserv. If anyone needs me: cacasama@towson.edu I love you all. Christophe Casamassima --=20 ___________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.graffiti.net/ Powered By Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 15:31:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: Re: Leaving. Goodbye. In-Reply-To: <20060828202924.61E7914888@ws5-9.us4.outblaze.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable what a DICK FACE. I sure do love the bastard. whipsaw zen hasn't got an angle is the angle is no angle -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of furniture_ press Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 15:29 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Leaving. Goodbye. I'm leaving the listserv. If anyone needs me: cacasama@towson.edu I love you all. Christophe Casamassima --=20 ___________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.graffiti.net/ Powered By Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 16:56:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "j. kuszai" Subject: a social poem Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed i saw that there was a new journal for socially conscious poetry. that should help alleviate all the socially unconscious poetry. here is my favorite poem on the subject, by JML it's presnted here without permission Social Significance They tell me now They want a poem with social significance With social and economic meanings (Preferably of their own choosing) That now is the open season On Ivory Towers Tell me, comrade: Is there any poem Which doesn=92t have This social significance? No matter how thin its inspiration Or banal its subject, My dear friend, Can you imagine a poem, Which is still a poem, And doesn=92t have Social significance? If it is a poem It will affect people: Thence will spring Its social significance. 1 May 1939= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 16:58:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "j. kuszai" Subject: a social poem, including the date Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed for some reason the last line of my posts is always clipped. does =20 anyone else have that problem? here is the poem with the last line, the "date of composition" Social Significance They tell me now They want a poem with social significance With social and economic meanings (Preferably of their own choosing) That now is the open season On Ivory Towers Tell me, comrade: Is there any poem Which doesn=92t have This social significance? No matter how thin its inspiration Or banal its subject, My dear friend, Can you imagine a poem, Which is still a poem, And doesn=92t have Social significance? If it is a poem It will affect people: Thence will spring Its social significance. 1 May 1939 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 18:08:24 -0400 Reply-To: junction@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: query Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just sent a message to Gabe Gudding and it bounced back. Anybody got a current email for the lad? Mark ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 18:16:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: hegullah megullah MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit why's every one makin such a big migellah over this gilligan's mulligan's stu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 18:41:56 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Phil Primeau Subject: Re: a social poem, including the date In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Nope. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 18:56:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: furniture_ press Subject: Re: Leaving. Goodbye. Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Thanks. I'll be downsizing my whole life. Thanks to you all - what an excep= tional example... Pastamassima, in memorium > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom W. Lewis" > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Leaving. Goodbye. > Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 15:31:18 -0500 >=20 >=20 > what a DICK FACE. I sure do love the bastard. >=20 > whipsaw zen > hasn't got an angle > is the angle > is no angle >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] > On Behalf Of furniture_ press > Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 15:29 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Leaving. Goodbye. >=20 > I'm leaving the listserv. If anyone needs me: >=20 > cacasama@towson.edu >=20 > I love you all. >=20 > Christophe Casamassima >=20 > -- > ___________________________________________ > Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net > Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.graffiti.net/ >=20 >=20 > Powered By Outblaze > Christophe Casamassima Professor Emiritus, Modern Languages & Philology University of Jamaica Avenue, Queens, N.Y. --=20 ___________________________________________ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.graffiti.net/ Powered By Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 17:38:49 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jane Sprague Subject: New from Palm Press: The Present Work by Matvei Yankelevich MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Palm Press is pleased to announce the publication of our first 2006 = chapbook: THE PRESENT WORK=20 by Matvei Yankelevich Marcel Duchamp once said: "It all started with Gustave Courbet." Should = the avant garde of today pay for the mistakes of its inspirational = predecessors? In The Present Work, movement and moment, Marcel Duchamp = and Gustave Courbet, crows and poets, progress and chance, all toggle = back and forth between each other, contesting history, primacy, ideas of = beginning and ending. The continuum is broken, parts become autonomous. = The moment is separate from all other moments-it drops out of the line, = out of the set, out of the continuum. The Cast of Characters includes a = Scrap of Paper, Definition, Back Home, Interjection, Martini, Synopsis, = Transcript, unknown soldiers of poetry, and many more.=20 Matvei Yankelevich is an editor of Ugly Duckling Presse, a non-profit = volunteer-run publishing concern in Brooklyn. He translates Daniil = Kharms, Alexander Vvedensky and Vladimir Mayakovsky, among other Russian = writers. He teaches Literature at Hunter College in New York City while = working on a graduate degree in Comparative Literature and a house is = the country. * Many people have eagerly anticipated the publication of Matvei's book = and we're happy to say-- this chapbook contains excellent writing, has = been beautifully designed (with original cover art by poet and artist = Jen Bervin), was carefully made and is now--launched into the world. = Check it out: The Present Work, a chapbook-length poem by Matvei Yankelevich 28 pages, sewn $10.00 ISBN 0-9743181-8-3 www.palmpress.org Please visit www.palmpress.org to check out our titles and to purchase = books. All purchases include shipping and tax: we accept PayPal = transactions, personal checks, money orders and well-concealed cash. = Subscriptions to the 2006 Palm Press print run are $40.00 for 5 = chapbooks, one perfect-bound edition, 1 CD, ephemera and postage. Enjoy & please forward this note to others, thanks. * You are receiving this note because we believe you might want to know = about what we're up to at Palm Press. If you'd rather not receive future = notices like this, please reply to this email with 'unsubscribe' in the = subject line and we will promptly remove you from our list. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 20:58:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan C Golding Subject: CFP: 20C Literature and Culture Conference Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline The thirty-fifth annual 20th-Century Literature and Culture Conference Call for Papers ------------------------------------------------------------------------ FEATURED SPEAKERS SHERMAN ALEXIE MLADEN DOLAR LAURA KIPNIS BRUCE ROBBINS PERLA SUEZ ALENKA ZUPANCIC ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Submission Guidelines The thirty-fifth annual 20th-Century Literature and Culture Conference will be held at the University of Louisville, February 22-24, 2007. Critical papers may be submitted on any topic that addresses literary works published since 1900, and/or their relationship with other Arts and disciplines(film, journalism, opera, music, pop culture, painting, architecture, law, etc.). Work by creative writers is also welcome. Submissions may be in English, French, German, Italian or Spanish. Deadline for submission is September 15, 2006 (postmarked). Critical Submissions. Submit 3 copies of a 250-300 word abstract (double-spaced and titled) omitting all references to the author, together with 2 copies of a cover sheet (see details below). Previously presented or published papers are not eligible. Accepted submitters will receive notification by e-mail in early December. Registration materials will accompany the official letter of acceptance in early December. The completed paper (suitable for 20-minute reading) is to be delivered to the section chair before the Conference. Critical panels pre-organized by participants are welcome. Panel proposals should include a) 3 copies of each abstract, (b) 2 cover sheets per participant, (c) rationale for grouping papers, and (d) name and address of panel organizer. Panel presentation (ideally 3 papers) not to exceed 90 minutes. Please submit all panel papers together in the same mailing. Creative submissions. Submit 2 copies of poetry or short fiction/nonfiction, selections suitable for 20-minute reading. Submitter's name to appear on the cover sheet only (see details below). Creative submissions may be published or unpublished works. Manuscripts cannot be returned. Submitters may submit both a critical paper and a creative work, not to exceed one entry in each category: sent together in the same mailing. Group Societies, Editorial Collectives and other such associations are welcome. Panel organizers should email the proposal to Danielle Day dlday@louisville.edu. Please include together, title of panel, and all participants names, addresses, email addresses, academic affiliation, and titles. Submitter's cover sheet (2 copies) to include: * Name (as it will appear in the program) * Address (preferably home address since materials are sent out early in December) * E-mail address (necessary to confirm your acceptance) * Telephone number * Academic affiliation (if applicable) * Title of paper/work (as it will appear in the program) * National origin/genre of work discussed (please be specific) * Personal biographical note, (100-150 words) Electronic submissions will not be considered. Section Chairs. Non-submitters and submitters are encouraged to chair a session. Please submit a brief CV specifying your area(s) of interest. Registration * Presenter, presenter-chair * Regular $ 80 no onsite registration * Grad student $ 50 no onsite registration * Section chair $ 40 no onsite registration * Guest (per day) $ 10 Presenters must remit fees by January 15, 2007 Send all submissions and correspondence to: Danielle Day, Conference Director Dept of Classical & Modern Languages University of Louisville, Louisville KY 40292 Inquiries: dlday@louisville.edu Website: www.louisville.edu/a-s/cml/xxconf Consult our website for additional conference information. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 23:59:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: heidi arnold Subject: thanks/pacifism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline --thanks! for your replies offlist re poetry of unlimited pacifism and non-violence -- i will report back to you all -- psyched to be here ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 20:25:12 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Susan Webster Schultz Subject: University of Alabama Press discount until mid-September MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NEW FROM THE UNIVESITY OF ALABAMA PRESS!! BLUE STUDIOS Poetry and Its Cultural Work Rachel Blau DuPlessis A new collection of essays that continues the work begun in The Pink Guitar! “Blue Studios is an intriguing defense of ‘affective reading,’ a defense and demonstration of some adventurous and nonstandard modes of essay-writing, and a suggestion of a kind of utopian horizon for poetry/poetics. A major collection by one of the most important poets and critics writing today, it is a proper (and improper) successor to The Pink Guitar.” —Hank Lazer, coeditor, Modern and Contemporary Poetics Rachel Blau DuPlessis is a poet, critic, and Professor of English at Temple University. She is the author/editor of more than 20 volumes of poetry and criticism. THE PINK GUITAR Writing as Feminist Practice Rachel Blau DuPlessis A landmark study of women’s writing and poetics—now back in print! “One of the boldest, most enlightening, innovative, challenging, and knowledgeable works of feminist theory to grace the last couple of decades.”—Martha Nell Smith, Tulsa Studies in Women’s Literature “Establishes a powerful feminist writing practice not because of DuPlessis’s refusal of authority, transcendence, and singularity, but because of the ways she redeploys these.”—Jeanne Heuving, Contemporary Literature I'm sending this on the behest of the press, but I can't copy the order form. So if you're interested in the offer, please email me (schultz@hawaii.rr.com) and I'll send you the attachment, which includes the order form. The offer is for 30% off until September 15. Susan Schultz ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 07:03:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Stefans Subject: New address *correction* MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I reversed the numbers in my address, the correct one is below. 913 N 16TH ST APT. 3 PHILADELPHIA PA 19130 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 09:00:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: heidi arnold Subject: social poem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline --Joel, i didn't catch the author of this poem? --i'm always losing the ends of lines --it is interesting to locate the significance of the poem in the reader rather than in the making i think the act of putting words on paper is a kind of peace-making with the world a kind of recognition of the otherness of everything else -- and letting go of the world in speaking it -- a kind of "i and thou" --naming birds in flight --if a hermit speaks from a cell it is to a world that is necessarily passing by --position of detachment -- - --this is not about the politics of the poem per se but about the kind of pile of rocks one makes in the act of writing --and within the rocks lights in the soil under the mantle --and then the reader as another "thou" --and then nonviolence which can lead to nonviolence * From:* "j. kuszai" <[log in to unmask] > for some reason the last line of my posts is always clipped. does anyone else have that problem? here is the poem with the last line, the "date of composition" Social Significance They tell me now They want a poem with social significance With social and economic meanings (Preferably of their own choosing) That now is the open season On Ivory Towers Tell me, comrade: Is there any poem Which doesn't have This social significance? No matter how thin its inspiration Or banal its subject, My dear friend, Can you imagine a poem, Which is still a poem, And doesn't have Social significance? If it is a poem It will affect people: Thence will spring Its social significance. 1 May 1939 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 09:32:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "j. kuszai" Subject: soshul poemz Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed heidi-- the author of that poem was jackstone mack lowe -- i don't =20 want this post turning up in internet searches, so i've misspelled =20 his name i was going to change the poem to make a reasonable commentary on it, =20= passing souter's "two live crew" test, but then figured it was an =20 illustration. i contemplated posting it at the end of a 3,000 page =20 document but then thought better of it. is anyone on this list at the jackstone mack lowe memorial service--=20 in february of 05, i think it was? i'd be interested in conversing =20 with people who were there who want to talk about the reception of =20 mac low generally but most specifically after his death. anyhow, i'm pretty confident people are not reading this far down the =20= page, so i'll post another poem in this strain. i'm not sure it's valid, but i want to distinguish poems which do =20 cultural work and poems by cultural workers... poems that "are =20 radical" (whether in form or content or both) and poems by people who =20= are "radical" (whether in form or content or both).... so for =20 example, a "political poem" by wallace stevens, for example, or, a =20 poem by the women of the weather underground.... note that the WUO =20 book "Sing a Battle Song" is now out and is quite beautiful. =20 another gift to the people of queens. here is a poem -- a social poem posed differently, from that book: Waiting* This is the way we learn humility. How many times have people sat and waited alone in a house waiting for the comrades to come back? The battle is planned Every minute is accounted for Every person knows her job All care has been taken. Tonight, how many guerrillas are fighting battles? Tonight, the radio reports the police are attempting to drive hundreds of demonstrators back from the streets. Rocks are flying, you can hear the chants, the breaking glass, the sirens behind the nervous newsman=92s patter. Eleven o=92clock. Not done yet. How many have been done before us? The line stretches back through history. How many are there still to do? Autumn 1971 *Written on the night of the bombing of William Bundy=92s office in the =20= MIT Research Center, done by the women=92s Proud Eagle Tribe. compare that with a poem written ostensibly by another woman in that =20 group (all the poems in the book are anyonymous, so we don't know if =20 any were written by judge bernadine dorn, or who). many of the poems =20= are fairly straightforward in their "arguments" -- i've picked two =20 that are, well, ahem, a little more nuanced. tomorrow, i'll post =20 some samples of reina maria rodriguez, a cuban poet popular among =20 many on this list, who embodies the "political" differently.... =20 (perhaps we can start to disentangle here in this space the =20 difference between "political" and "social" poetry. because we're =20 presenting partly on this topic (with R. Levitsky) at RAT at Godard =20 at the end of september -- anyone here going to RAT? -- and while i =20 appreciated philip metres generous listing of pacifist poets, and =20 what he's done and does, especially as an editor, i think it would be =20= important to return to some of his choices for further critical =20 evaluation, because i think it's really easy to sit somewhere in the =20 suburbs and write "pacifist poetry" -- the anti war pacifists -- such =20= as those in the why/resistance circle in new york in 40s, etc., some =20 of them actually made pacifism an active proposition-- say, =20 demonstrating in support of hunger-striking "conscientious objetors" =20 at danbury federal prison. before we start patting ourselves on all =20= the hard work our poems do, i'd rather back up and take a deep =20 breath. anyhow, here is another poem, and i think it's really pitiful Spider Poem spider, spin me a world web touch women far away I go slide down the strands subway spider strands to other lands touch other hands spider, spider, a world web a meeting place to share a meal, a cup of rice a night of stories a day=92s toil tired hands from the field smell of soil warm baths and back rubs shared children shared fire shared burdens gentle hands for bodies tense and bent spider, spider, storm the land with silken strands like fine fine hair (see those threads glisten) listen by the fire. Shhhhhh a child cries, tired raspy voice soft soft body molded round into an olden arm, rough like tree bark, tough she cradles that baby strong and gentle (the earth, she bears scars tunnels, ditches carved like the lines in an old woman=92s face hides children to be safe woven folds of skin for children to be safe from bombs and lines of fire) spider, spider weave me a web, a world web stretch your special liquid around the land, above the waters, through tall trees We will meet all of us women of every land children on backs, in arms, in shopping carts We will meet in the center make a circle to discuss to simply discuss to simply discuss amongst ourselves our lives and what is to be done and with our fine spidernet we intend to entangle the powers that bury our children November 1974 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 10:20:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "j. kuszai" Subject: for the SLA, by women of WUO Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed my friends at anarchist paper fifth estate hated this poem, since hey =20= have funny ideas about poetry, have little patience for the WUO (in =20 some cases having been around for the street fights, etc.) -- but =20 mostly because they have never gone to professional poet or =20 professional critic school. while there is a lot to dislike about =20 this poem, i think it's interesting and worth thinking about as an =20 artifact of that time. there are a bunch of people on this list who =20= taught me how to read without getting mixed up with making aesthetic =20 judgments. i think the reading of poetry -- as a nuanced act =20 informed by certain literary and cultural theories, yes, say bourdieu =20= of raymond williams -- has something to teach leftwing activist =20 culture. (this is something i've learned, anyhow). i'm not sure =20 that this was always the case anyhow, this pretty much uses up my two posts. HELP! please order factory school books. since bill and i both =20 moved to the city, we're now facing extreme cash crunch and our =20 ability to do these projects is seriously impeded without further =20 sales. i know of two courses in queens that are using this WUO book =20= in class, and if anyone wants to use them in a class, it really helps =20= to sell a bunch of books at once. For the SLA They call it terror if you are few and have no B-52s if you are not a head of state with an army and police if you have neither napalm nor tanks nor electronic battlefields terror is if you are dispossessed and have only your own two hands each other and your rage It is not terror if you are New York=92s Finest and you shoot a ten-year old Black child in the back because you think Black people all look like they=92ve just committed a robbery It is not terror if you are ITT and buy the men who line Chilean doctors up in their hospital corridors and shoot them for supporting the late democratic government of their country It is not terror but heroism if you were captured by the Vietnamese for dropping fragmentation bombs on their schools and hospitals Only those who have nothing can be terrorists Brothers and sisters, let us choose our weapons carefully and humanely let us use no torture or napalm or genocide but do not be fooled there is no weapon they will allow nothing that works will be called legitimate unless we fight for it unless we educate ourselves and others unless we separate resistance from oppression The same editorials that scream terrorism screamed mob rule at the civil-rights marches of the early sixties at the anti-war demonstrations thousands of busted heads later they say, of course we always upheld the right to peaceful protest The attitudes they offer up in print with little tabs, cut them out and wear them written by men who have not seen a jail cell from the inside or hunger or the face of a duly constituted officer of the law as he says make one move and you=92ll be dead they say we cannot condone violence but watch out for whether they say it about murdering prisoners at Attica or about kidnapping Patricia Hearst about the disinherited or about the inheritors As we find our way slowly to use the means available to us as wisely as we can there will be mistakes but do not let the enemy define the mistakes because he is experienced and has ten thousand printing presses at his back behind which he hides the tanks and guns he will say, the people don=92t support you and saying it can make it so if we agree he will say, you only turn off those you say you are fighting for he is helpful no anti-war march no sit-in no teach-in but had its helpful editor to say how much more we could accomplish by doing less or preferably nothing while the people of Vietnam patiently explained their cause to the world but did not stop shooting down the bombers for fear of alienating someone Watch out for what they turn into news and what they quietly forget What if all the headlines and stories about Solzhenitsyn had said instead Millions of Humans Held in Semi-Slavery Deprived of Every Human and Legal Right Families Forcibly Torn Apart Strikes Broken by Mass Murder Hundreds of Thousands Imprisoned Without Trial in Southern Africa? (Is it because of their impartial humanity that they hear the cry of one czarist intellectual drowning out the screams of 20 million Black Africans?) Or 25,000 U.S. Troops Remain in Thailand the war in Southeast Asia isn=92t over but continues directed as before by U.S. officials and U.S. money U.S. advisors who changed their uniforms into civilian clothes and call it by another name or worse, do not call it anything at all but hope the world will forget and let them carry on their dirty business undisturbed while solemn conferences are held on what to do about the =93international terrorism=94 of the Palestinians who disrupt the peaceful prosperity of tourism with annoying reminders that their land has been stolen from them and they have been left with nothing but their courage and the justness of their cause with which to win it back poor enough weapons we can help supply some others by shouting and whispering on every corner the story of their struggle a people utterly deprived of its homeland Sisters and brothers, think hard before you jump onto the bandwagon of condemning terrorism remember who is making the definitions remember not to strengthen the hand that will turn in an instant against every means of resistance to oppression That bandwagon rolls straight toward fascism do not forget the real terrorists that lurk behind the masks of heads of state do not be afraid to hold strong together with all who dare to struggle. Spring 1974= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 10:47:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: **VIP: Boog City Needs Your Ads and Donations** Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable please forward --------------- Please help Boog City issue 36 go to press. We need your ad dollars and donations to help pay our printer so people throughout Manhattan's East Village and Brooklyn's Greenpoint and Williamsburg can read the 2,000 issue= s we distribute to them. Our indie ad rates go as low as $30 for an 1/8-page ad, on up to $210 for a full inside page. Email editor@boogcity.com or call 212-842-BOOG(2664) for more information and additional rates. THANKS! David This month's paper features: ------ *Art Johnathan Neal=20 ------ *Music Nicole Chin profiling musician Erin Regan Jonathan Berger reviews Larissa Shmailo's album The No-Net World ----- *Poems Zhang Er Jeremy Gardner Urayo=E1n Noel ----- *Politics Christina Strong on festivals and street fairs and the politics of communit= y James Cook poem ----- *Printed Matter Mark Lamoureux reviews Gary Sullivan's Elsewhere #2 Jennifer Firestone reviews Kate Greenstreet's Learning the Language (Etherdome Press) --=20 David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 10:12:44 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: for the SLA, by women of WUO In-Reply-To: <984C29E7-814E-4CCC-B716-4213BFE53F69@factoryschool.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE That's an interesting perspective. I've always thought that one of the majo= r faults of the various descendents of the New Left is their rampant, unack= nowledged, middle class elitism. It's part and parcel of what's alienated a= nd weakened labor in the united states, and without labor, the left doesn't= have an organizational base beyond a small group of efete, self-congratula= tory middle class self-described "activists" who are completely politically= ineffective. the left is nothing without the support of the people it aims= to serve, and since the sixties and the mindbogglingly stupid antics of gr= oups like the weathermen, the left has done nothing to earn the support of = those people. quid pro quo=3Dgeorge w. bush. On Tue, 29 Aug 2006, j. kuszai wrote: > my friends at anarchist paper fifth estate hated this poem, since hey hav= e=20 > funny ideas about poetry, have little patience for the WUO (in some cases= =20 > having been around for the street fights, etc.) -- but mostly because the= y have=20 > never gone to professional poet or professional critic school. while t= here=20 > is a lot to dislike about this poem, i think it's interesting and worth= =20 > thinking about as an artifact of that time. there are a bunch of people= on=20 > this list who taught me how to read without getting mixed up with making= =20 > aesthetic judgments. i think the reading of poetry -- as a nuanced ac= t=20 > informed by certain literary and cultural theories, yes, say bourdieu of= =20 > raymond williams -- has something to teach leftwing activist culture. = (this=20 > is something i've learned, anyhow). i'm not sure that this was always t= he=20 > case > > anyhow, this pretty much uses up my two posts. > > HELP! please order factory school books. since bill and i both moved to= the=20 > city, we're now facing extreme cash crunch and our ability to do these pr= ojects=20 > is seriously impeded without further sales. i know of two courses in qu= eens=20 > that are using this WUO book in class, and if anyone wants to use them in= a=20 > class, it really helps to sell a bunch of books at once. > > > > > > > For the SLA > > > They call it terror > if you are few and have no B-52s > if you are not a head of state > with an army and police > if you have neither napalm > nor tanks nor electronic battlefields > terror is if you are dispossessed > and have only your own two hands > each other > and your rage > It is not terror > if you are New York=E2=80=99s Finest > and you shoot a ten-year old Black child in the back > because you think Black people > all look like > they=E2=80=99ve just committed a robbery > It is not terror if you are ITT > and buy the men > who line Chilean doctors up in their hospital =09=09corridors > and shoot them for supporting the late > democratic government of their country > It is not terror but heroism > if you were captured by the Vietnamese > for dropping fragmentation bombs > on their schools and hospitals > Only those who have nothing > can be terrorists > > Brothers and sisters, let us choose > our weapons carefully and humanely > let us use no torture > or napalm > or genocide > but do not be fooled > there is no weapon they will allow > nothing that works will be called legitimate > unless we fight for it > unless we educate ourselves and others > unless we separate resistance from oppression > The same editorials that scream terrorism > screamed mob rule > at the civil-rights marches of the early sixties > at the anti-war demonstrations > thousands of busted heads later > they say, of course > we always upheld the right to peaceful protest > > The attitudes they offer up in print > with little tabs, cut them out and wear them > written by men who have not seen > a jail cell from the inside > or hunger > or the face of a duly constituted officer > of the law as he says > make one move and you=E2=80=99ll be dead > they say we cannot condone violence > but watch out > for whether they say it about murdering prisoners > at Attica > or about kidnapping Patricia Hearst > about the disinherited > or about the inheritors > > As we find our way slowly > to use the means available to us > as wisely as we can > there will be mistakes > but do not let the enemy > define the mistakes > because he is experienced > and has ten thousand printing presses at his back > behind which he hides the tanks and guns > he will say, the people don=E2=80=99t support you > and saying it can make it so > if we agree > he will say, you only turn off > those you say you are fighting for > he is helpful > no anti-war march > no sit-in > no teach-in > but had its helpful editor to say > how much more we could accomplish by doing less > or preferably nothing > while the people of Vietnam > patiently explained their cause to the world > but did not stop shooting down the bombers > for fear of alienating someone > > Watch out > for what they turn into news > and what they quietly forget > What if all the headlines > and stories about Solzhenitsyn > had said instead > Millions of Humans > Held in Semi-Slavery > Deprived of Every Human and Legal Right > Families Forcibly Torn Apart > Strikes Broken by Mass Murder > Hundreds of Thousands Imprisoned Without Trial > in Southern Africa? > (Is it because of their impartial humanity > that they hear > the cry of one czarist intellectual > drowning out the screams of > 20 million Black Africans?) > Or 25,000 U.S. Troops Remain in Thailand > the war in Southeast Asia > isn=E2=80=99t over but continues > directed as before by U.S. officials > and U.S. money > U.S. advisors who changed their uniforms > into civilian clothes and call it by another name > or worse, do not call it anything at all > but hope the world will forget > and let them carry on their dirty business undisturbed > while solemn conferences are held on what to do > about the =E2=80=9Cinternational terrorism=E2=80=9D of the Palestinians > who disrupt the peaceful prosperity of tourism > with annoying reminders > that their land has been stolen from them > and they have been left with nothing > but their courage and the justness of their cause > with which to win it back > poor enough weapons > we can help supply some others > by shouting and whispering on every corner > the story of their struggle > a people utterly deprived of its homeland > > Sisters and brothers, think hard before you jump > onto the bandwagon > of condemning terrorism > remember who is making the definitions > remember not to strengthen the hand > that will turn in an instant > against every means of resistance to oppression > That bandwagon rolls straight toward fascism > do not forget the real terrorists > that lurk behind the masks of heads of state > do not be afraid to hold strong together > with all who dare to struggle. > > > Spring 1974 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 12:51:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: A Database of Eighteenth-Century Metaphors of Mind Comments: To: Theory and Writing Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed The Mind is a Metaphor A Database of Eighteenth-Century Metaphors of Mind Assembled and Taxonomized by Brad Pasanek, Annenberg Center for Communication, University of Southern California. This collection of eighteenth-century metaphors of mind is part of a scholarly study of the metaphors and root-images appealed to by the novelists, poets, dramatists, essayists, philosophers, belle lettrists, preachers, and pamphleteers of the eighteenth century. While the database does include metaphors from classical sources, from Shakespeare and Milton, the King James Bible, and more recent texts, it does not pretend to any depth or density of coverage in literature other than that of the British eighteenth century. http://mind-metaphor.stanford.edu/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 14:16:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Clements Subject: Max Winter Contact Info? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Greatly appreciated backchannel. Brian Dr. Brian Clements, Coordinator MFA in Professional Writing 203-837-8876 _____ Dept. of English Language, Comparative Literature, and Writing Western Connecticut State University 181 White St. Danbury, CT 06810 _____ http://www.wcsu.edu/english/mfa ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 15:14:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Fwd: A.Word.A.Day--palinode Comments: To: Theory and Writing Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit great concept for an anthology... presidents do it all the time, time for poets to retract. Begin forwarded message: > From: Wordsmith > Date: August 28, 2006 11:04:29 PM CDT > To: linguaphile@wordsmith.org > Subject: A.Word.A.Day--palinode > > This week's theme: words about poetry. > > palinode (PAL-uh-noad) noun > > A poem in which the author retracts something said in an earlier > poem. > > [From Greek palinoidia, from palin (again) + oide (song).] > > The illustrator and humorist Gelett Burgess (1866-1951) once wrote a > poem called The Purple Cow: > > I never saw a purple cow, > I never hope to see one; > But I can tell you, anyhow, > I'd rather see than be one. > > The poem became so popular and he became so closely linked with > this single > quatrain he later wrote a palinode: > > Confession: and a Portrait, Too, > Upon a Background that I Rue! > > Oh, yes, I wrote 'The Purple Cow,' > I'm sorry now I wrote it! > But I can tell you anyhow, > I'll kill you if you quote it." > > It was the same Burgess who coined the word blurb. > > -Anu Garg (garg wordsmith.org) > > "The more lighthearted palinodes were more successful, such as Geoff > Horton's recantation of his youthful view that a martini should be > shaken rather than stirred." > Jaspitos; I Take It Back; The Spectator (London, UK); Jan 24, 2004. > > Sponsors' messages: > > The delights of "Prinderella and the Since," "Beeping Sleauty," and > 41 other > tales twisted by Col Stoopnagle can be yours from http:// > stoneandscott.com > > Always find the right word with the Visual Thesaurus. Wordsmith > readers > save 10%. Try it free! http://www.visualthesaurus.com/?code=qt4&ad=aw > > ...................................................................... > ...... > The average pencil is seven inches long, with just a half-inch > eraser - in > case you thought optimism was dead. -Robert Brault, software > developer, > writer (1972- ) > > Share the magic of words. Send a gift sub: http://wordsmith.org/ > awad/gift.html > > Remove, change, or subscribe address: http://wordsmith.org/awad/ > subscriber.html > > Pronunciation: > http://wordsmith.org/words/palinode.wav > http://wordsmith.org/words/palinode.ram > > Permalink: http://wordsmith.org/words/palinode.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 13:54:48 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: Fwd: A.Word.A.Day--palinode In-Reply-To: <726966F5-E166-4460-B1BE-9942407E4990@mwt.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed What would be cool would be poets retracting poems by other poets. I for one would revel in writing a palinode of "stopping by the woods on a snowy evening." I could even imagine an anthology of palinodes of that one specific poem, or it and a few others. Of course, i have no idea how one goes about putting together an anthology, but somebody should do that. On Tue, 29 Aug 2006, mIEKAL aND wrote: > great concept for an anthology... presidents do it all the time, time for > poets to retract. > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: Wordsmith >> Date: August 28, 2006 11:04:29 PM CDT >> To: linguaphile@wordsmith.org >> Subject: A.Word.A.Day--palinode >> >> This week's theme: words about poetry. >> >> palinode (PAL-uh-noad) noun >> >> A poem in which the author retracts something said in an earlier poem. >> >> [From Greek palinoidia, from palin (again) + oide (song).] >> >> The illustrator and humorist Gelett Burgess (1866-1951) once wrote a >> poem called The Purple Cow: >> >> I never saw a purple cow, >> I never hope to see one; >> But I can tell you, anyhow, >> I'd rather see than be one. >> >> The poem became so popular and he became so closely linked with this single >> quatrain he later wrote a palinode: >> >> Confession: and a Portrait, Too, >> Upon a Background that I Rue! >> >> Oh, yes, I wrote 'The Purple Cow,' >> I'm sorry now I wrote it! >> But I can tell you anyhow, >> I'll kill you if you quote it." >> >> It was the same Burgess who coined the word blurb. >> >> -Anu Garg (garg wordsmith.org) >> >> "The more lighthearted palinodes were more successful, such as Geoff >> Horton's recantation of his youthful view that a martini should be >> shaken rather than stirred." >> Jaspitos; I Take It Back; The Spectator (London, UK); Jan 24, 2004. >> >> Sponsors' messages: >> >> The delights of "Prinderella and the Since," "Beeping Sleauty," and 41 other >> tales twisted by Col Stoopnagle can be yours from http://stoneandscott.com >> >> Always find the right word with the Visual Thesaurus. Wordsmith readers >> save 10%. Try it free! http://www.visualthesaurus.com/?code=qt4&ad=aw >> >> ............................................................................ >> The average pencil is seven inches long, with just a half-inch eraser - in >> case you thought optimism was dead. -Robert Brault, software developer, >> writer (1972- ) >> >> Share the magic of words. Send a gift sub: http://wordsmith.org/ >> awad/gift.html >> >> Remove, change, or subscribe address: http://wordsmith.org/awad/ >> subscriber.html >> >> Pronunciation: >> http://wordsmith.org/words/palinode.wav >> http://wordsmith.org/words/palinode.ram >> >> Permalink: http://wordsmith.org/words/palinode.html > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 17:00:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lori Emerson Subject: Atlanta poets? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hi everyone - settling into Atlanta and trying to figure out where the poetry is - does anyone know if the Atlanta Poets Group is still around? Their website has been disabled and my google search hasn't turned up much. And any other reading series other than Poetry at Tech? thanks for tips! (but no tips for thanks - couldn't resist--) Lori ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 14:40:14 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: L Guevarra Subject: NEW REPACKAGE: The Collected Poems of Robert Creeley, 1945-1975 Comments: To: poetics@listserv.buffalo.edu. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Dear Buffalo Poetics List: The University of California Press is pleased to announce the repackage of: The Collected Poems of Robert Creeley, 1945-1975 Robert Creeley (1926-2005) published more than sixty books of poetry, prose, essays, and interviews in the United States and abroad, including _If I Were Writing This, Selected Poems 1945-1990, The Collected Poems of Robert Creeley, 1975-2005, _and _The Island. _His many honors include the Lannan Lifetime Achievement Award, the Frost Medal, the Shelley Memorial Award, and the Bollingen Prize in Poetry. He was a member of the American Academy of Arts and Letters and Distinguished Professor in the Graduate Program in Literary Arts at Brown University. http://go.ucpress.edu/Creeley1945 "His influence on contemporary American poetry has probably been more deeply felt than that of any other writer of his generation."-_New York Times Book Review_ "Rediscovering poetry's bardic roots in lyric and song, Creeley made the melody new, spiked it with the jazz of consciousness."-_Voice Literary Supplement_ Full information about the bookis available online: http://go.ucpress.edu/Creeley1945 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 17:42:53 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: Atlanta poets? Comments: To: lori.emerson@GMAIL.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Dear Lori, The Atlanta Poetry Group certainly is very much around, or was in April = when I read with Randy Prunty at Emory. He was electric. Also met with = John Lowther, Tracey Gagne, Mark Prejsnar, Alka Roy, and more -- and heard = enough about missing members to seriously want to meet them too. It was a = very sweet reading, arranged by the APG and hosted by Bruce Covey, with a = small, keen, ultra-alert attendance. We all got together afterwards & it = was the best! Great conversation, unbeatable commitment. John Lowther = gave me a big envelope stuffed with APG publications. The whole thing was = bracing. As the AWP will be in Atlanta in 2007 I gave heavy encouragement = for an APG event on or off program; I hope to god I have to a chance to = hear more from these guys and get some of that old APG superfuel again. Mairead Mair=E9ad Byrne Associate Professor of English Rhode Island School of Design 2 College Street Providence, RI 02903 www.maireadbyrne.blogspot.com >>> lori.emerson@GMAIL.COM 08/29/06 5:00 PM >>> Hi everyone - settling into Atlanta and trying to figure out where the poetry is - does anyone know if the Atlanta Poets Group is still around? Their website has been disabled and my google search hasn't turned up much. And any other reading series other than Poetry at Tech? thanks for tips! (but no tips for thanks - couldn't resist--) Lori ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 17:45:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: Re: Fwd: A.Word.A.Day--palinode In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >I for one would revel in writing a palinode of=20 >"stopping by the woods on a snowy evening."=20 Go miles before my promise keep. The words are lovely, downy flake=20 Of easy wind and sound's the sweep=20 To ask if there is bells, a shake.=20 He gives his harness two a year.=20 The darkest evening 'tween the woods=20 To stop without my little horse.=20 Farmer near must think it queer To watch his snow fill up with words. He will not stop to see me here His village house is in there though, Who knows the words I think I know. And I go miles to sleep before.=20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 18:42:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Fw: This is the program for September 7th. See address. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit AT SPOKEN WORDS 226 4TH AVE, PARK SLOPE, BROOKLYN SUBWAYS: R TO UNION SEPTEMBER 7TH 2006 8:30PM FEDERICO UGHI AND STEVE DALACHINSKY FEDERICO UGHI - DRUMS STEVE DALACHINSKY - POETRY 9:30PM CHRIS WELCOME TRIO ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 20:02:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eric Yost Subject: Re: Fwd: A.Word.A.Day--palinode In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>I for one would revel in writing a palinode of "stopping by the woods on a snowy evening." Here's my palinode of Allen Ginsberg's "A Supermarket in California." -EY ___________ A Book Store in Manhattan What little warning I had of you tonight, Allen Ginsberg, as I walked up Broadway in headlights with a broken CD player, self-consciously admiring the new Time-Warner Building. In my fatigue, and shopping for new career skills, I went into a chain book store, not dreaming of any chance meeting! What caffeination and what penury! Whole condos shopping at night! Carpets full of grad-students! Wives in the Self Help, babies in the bestsellers!--and you, Noam Chomsky, what were you doing in the humor section? I saw you, Allen Ginsberg, childless, salacious old professor, poking among magazines in the front and eyeing the male booksellers. I heard you asking questions of each: Who buys for the poetry section? Where do you hold signings? Are you the manager? I wandered in and out of the displays of faced-out paperbacks avoiding you, but monitored along with everyone else, by the store surveillance system. We skirted past each other in the thronged aisles nimble in our pretended reading of XML and wine guides, possessing every professional perk, but never acknowledging the homeless spare-changer outside. Where are you going, Allen Ginsberg? I am going the other way. Which way do your worn Buddhist boots point tonight? (I think of your book and Homer's Odyssey side-by-side in the book store and feel absurd.) Will I have to pretend to walk all night through expensive streets? The cabs add yellow to shade, lights out in the stores, if I'm late again we'll both be unemployed. Will I be able to stroll dreaming of the lost America of the Sixties past white stretch-limos in garages, home to my yuppie neighborhood? Ah, dead icon, East Village celebrity, lucky old derelict teacher, what America did you have when hipsters began reading obituaries and you stepped from a smoke-free bank and stood watching the ferry disappear to the black shore of New Jersey? Manhattan, 2003 _______________ Regards to all, Eric Yost ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 19:00:56 -0700 Reply-To: ishaq1824@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: Breakdown FM: Always Strength in Words-An Interview w/ Hasan Salaam, Akir and Hiccup MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Breakdown FM: Always Strength in Words-An Interview w/ Hasan Salaam, Akir and Hiccup http://media.odeo.com/0/4/1/Breakdown_FM-StengthinWords.mp3 Breakdown FM: Always Strength in Words-An Interview w/ Hasan Salaam, Akir and Hiccup [1] There’s Always Strength in Words: An Interview w/ Hasan Salaam, Akir and Hicoup By Davey D Whoever said Conscious Hip Hop artists can�t get down or that Hip Hop from the NY (East Coast) is dead simply has not tapped into the burgeoning cultural inspired rap scene that has everyone from dead prez to Immortal Technique making noise. Alongside them are artists like Hasan Salaam, Hicoup and Akir just to name a few. We sat down with them the other day when they swung through Oakland for the Strength in Words Tour. I gotta be honest it was nice building with these cats. In fact we barely spoke about their projects, which include Hasan�s �Lost Paradise� album, Hicoup’s Ghetto Factory Supreme� mixtape and Akir�s debut LP �Legacy�. Instead we talked in depth about the Middle East including the conflict in Lebanon. This was critically important especially when you take into account that Hasan has a song on his album called �Hezbollah�. We spoke about the upcoming anniversary of Hurricane Katrina and where we are at as a community and what we should be doing at this time especially when we note that so many people from New Orlean�s are still displaced. Most important in our conversation was hearing the solutions that these gentlemen offered up. Hasan and Akir spoke in great detail about how one can manifest revolutionary and spiritual politics in their day to day lifestyle. Hicoup really broke things down by warning against the forming of Black Power cults filled with people who divide the community. He said just because someone listens to 50 Cent Vs. Talib Kweli does not make you better or worse. He noted that far too often we get caught up on trying to see who is and isn�t a real revolutionary and who isn�t. After building with these cats, there�s was no denying their skillz on the mic. There�s no denying their politics. There�s no denying the type of excitement they are generating coast to coast. No, they are likely not to show up on MTV or BET. I doubt if Hot 97 will play them anytime soon, but so what? Does that mean they aren�t knocking? Does that mean they won�t pack the house? In a day where commercial artists are experiencing waning album sales, the underground is finding itself resurging. Hasan, Akir and Hicoup are proof positive that maintaining some principles and holding true to your values will pay off in the end. http://media.odeo.com/0/4/1/Breakdown_FM-StengthinWords.mp3 Source URL: http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=node/2345 Links: [1] http://media.odeo.com/0/4/1/Breakdown_FM-StengthinWords.mp3 -- Stay Strong -"I testified/My mama cried/Black people died/When the other man lied" -- chuck d "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as) \ "We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit to a process of humiliation." --patrick o'neil \ "...we have the responsibility to make no deal with the oppressor" --harry belafonte \ "...in time, we will look back to this age with incredulity and amazement -- and victories like Hamas in Israel will be the *best* of our memories." -- mumia abu jamal -- "what state? what union?" "...these people generate wars in Asia and Africa,...These are the people who, in the last century, caused several devastating wars. In one world war alone, they killed over 60 million people.... In the near future, Allah willing, we will put you to trial in courts established by the peoples...."-- mahmoud ahmadinejad \ http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a047braithwaite.php http://cleveland.indymedia.org/uploads/2006/07/olivet___h.a.t.s_in_the_square___loud_ruffa1b.mp3 \ http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7255.php \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date \ http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/en_fins__clichy-sous_bois_amixquiet-_lordpatch_the_giver__.mp3 \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ \ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 21:50:28 -0700 Reply-To: ishaq1824@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: Blackademics: Dick Gregory, Pac, NOLA, Bob Marley, White supremacy MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Download http://voxunion.com/realaudio/coupradio/Blackademics091305.mp3 VOXUNION.COM//AUDIO+VIDEO+PRINT MEDIA Visit: http://www.voxunion.com/blackademics.html 09.13.05>> Blackademics Famed author, comic, activist, researcher and dietician Dick Gregory was with us this week. You must not engage in masochism by missing this show! Tupac, New Orleans, Bob Marley, White supremacy and more all discussed with depth, criticism and, of course, humor. Stream http://voxunion.com/realaudio/coupradio/Blackademics091305.m3u Download http://voxunion.com/realaudio/coupradio/Blackademics091305.mp3 http://www.voxunion.com/ -- Stay Strong -"I testified/My mama cried/Black people died/When the other man lied" -- chuck d "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as) \ "We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit to a process of humiliation." --patrick o'neil \ "...we have the responsibility to make no deal with the oppressor" --harry belafonte \ "...in time, we will look back to this age with incredulity and amazement -- and victories like Hamas in Israel will be the *best* of our memories." -- mumia abu jamal -- "what state? what union?" "...these people generate wars in Asia and Africa,...These are the people who, in the last century, caused several devastating wars. In one world war alone, they killed over 60 million people.... In the near future, Allah willing, we will put you to trial in courts established by the peoples...."-- mahmoud ahmadinejad \ http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a047braithwaite.php http://cleveland.indymedia.org/uploads/2006/07/olivet___h.a.t.s_in_the_square___loud_ruffa1b.mp3 \ http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7255.php \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date \ http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/en_fins__clichy-sous_bois_amixquiet-_lordpatch_the_giver__.mp3 \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ \ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 23:05:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nico Vassilakis Subject: suBtexT seAttlE: this & ths Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Subtext continues its monthly series of experimental writing with performances by HOWEVER & Bill Horist at Richard Hugo House on Wednesday, September 6, 2006. Donations for admission will be taken at the door on the evening of the performance. The reading starts at 7:30pm. Bill Horist's improvised, prepared guitar work is informed by Hans Reichel, Fred Frith, and Henry Kaiser, but shows a unique style and personality. Since moving to Seattle in 1995, he has established himself as a noted improviser/performer along the West Coast and beyond. He has performed over 600 concerts in the past 9 years in the US, Canada, Mexico, Europe and Japan. Horist improvises and composes for film, dance and theater as well. In the Fall 2002, he was composer in residence at the Banff Centre for the Arts. There he developed a solo guitar score for University of Calgary choreographer, Davida Monk's "Lyric". He has also recorded pieces for an upcoming Italian theatrical production of Italo Calvino's "Invisible Cities". The improvising music quartet HOWEVER brings together four players from very diverse backgrounds and experiences: Lori Goldston, cello; Angelina Baldoz, trumpet and flute; Jaison Scott; drums; and Torben Ulrich, text/voicing. Ulrich will perform vocal improvisations off of texts from his series, "Stilhedens Cymbaler" ("Cymbals of Silence"). Founded in 2005, the Seattle-based However attempts to present a primarily contingent and spontaneous field of sounds, attempting to ride a fragile balance between sound, line and pulse, readily open and receding into a silence (which is never quite silent). [Bios: Born in 1963 in New York City, Lori Goldston studied with Aaron Shapinsky and at Bennington College. A frequent collaborator with choreographers, filmmakers and musicians from other disciplines, she has performed and/or recorded with Nirvana, David Byrne, Cat Power, and many others. She is co-founder of the Black Cat Orchestra and Spectratone International, which will release an album with Mirah on K records next year. Born in Seattle in 1967, Angelina Baldoz has been an active multi-instrumentalist (trumpet, flutes, electronics) in and out of the Seattle area and abroad, performing and creating in the improvisational music scene as well as the dance community and, more recently, for film. She has collaborated with musicians and movement artists including Deborah Hay, Jason E Anderson, Linda Austin, Gust Burns, Lori Goldston, Ellen Fullman, Paul Hoskin. Angelina composed music for the film 'Aliens Cut My Hair' and also is an organizer for the Seattle Improvised Music Festival. Born in Seattle in 1972, Jaison Scott has toured and recorded as a member of two additional Seattle bands: the heavy/experimental band Severhead (which has released the CDs "Severhead" in 2001 and "Acephal" in 2002); and the death-metal band Sindios (which recently released the CD "Modern Plagues"). He also was the drummer for the heavy-rock band Murray. His current work with However opens up to the years he’s devoted to the study of drummers from Elvin Jones to Hamid Drake. Born in 1928 in Denmark, Torben Ulrich’s music background includes starting in the Copenhagen-based Delta Jazz Band on clarinet (being taught and scolded by Sidney Bechet) and later adding tenor saxophone and bass clarinet to two bands in his own name. He’s been writing and broadcasting over 50 years on jazz, contemporary music and culture; recording amongst others Albert Ayler and Sonny Rollins for Danish Radio; and performing and recording with the Danish avant-garde group Clinch from 2002 to 2004. ] The future Subtext 2006 schedule is: October 4, 2006 - Mary Burger (Bay Area) & Meg McHutchison November 1, 2006 - Meredith Quartermain & Peter Quartermain (both Vancouver, BC) December 6, 2006 - Lidia Yuknavitch (Portland) & Emily White January 3, 2007 - Paul Hoover & Maxine Chernoff (both Bay Area) For info on these & other Subtext events, see our website: http://www.speakeasy.org/~subtext ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 07:34:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: heidi arnold Subject: izm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: "heidi arnold" > To: "UB Poetics discussion group" > Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 16:19:17 -0400 > Subject: Re: for the SLA, by women of WUO > Joel, > --i appreciate philip metres' point that discussions about political > poetry > can be too abstract, and then your point that there is a difference > between > political poetry and social poetry -- i think the poems you posted, i'm > thinking now about the poem "waiting" give a kind of concrete field for > discussing these issues > here is a link to the MIT newspaper _Tech_ that reported on the bombing in > Autumn of 1971 > > http://www-tech.mit.edu/archives/VOL_091/TECH_V091_S0326_P001.pdf#search=%22bombing%20of%20william%20bundy's%20office%20in%20women's%20proud%20eagle%20center%22 > > --there are many ways to discuss these issues but i will retreat to > abstraction -- this wanders but my point is in here -- abstraction i > realize > is a kind of retreat to a privileged view of the issues -- and just start > by > saying the events described there speak against the escalation of violence > through trying to take Bundy out -- to oppose the escalation of violence > in > the Vietnam war through this bombing as a symbolic act, because > an official to carry out his role would have replaced him -- so that his > function in the war was not attempted to be eliminated, in the most direct > sense, only his person -- when the problem to me is his function -- this > seems to me to be the flaw -- and again I appreciate Jason's objection > against middle class privilege, as a white faculty spouse, it's a damn > good hat, and my husband who supports limited pacifism as a proof test of pure pacifism -- but here is the poem Joel posted again > > > Waiting* > > > This is the way we learn humility. > How many times have people sat > and waited alone in a house > waiting for the comrades > to come back? > The battle is planned > Every minute is accounted for > Every person knows her job > All care has been taken. > Tonight, how many guerrillas are fighting battles? > Tonight, the radio reports > the police are attempting to drive > hundreds of demonstrators back from the streets. > Rocks are flying, > you can hear the chants, the breaking glass, > the sirens behind the nervous newsman's patter. > Eleven o'clock. > Not done yet. > How many have been done before us? > The line stretches back > through history. > How many are there still to do? > > --the opening lines in the poem, to me, seem to lead to disengagement with > violence, as pacifism conceived from a solitary house -- and how does this > lead to pacifism, and not to any "ism" but to non-violence that is not > simply a reinforcement of the status quo but a doorway for resistance to > oppression through spoken dialogue and cooperation -- i think behind, or > inside this poem, there is a poem about nonviolence about total refusal to > fight and in that to point a way to the war's end -- 'you can hear the > chants, the breaking glass' as you can join those chants, or listen and > not > join, both options are there in the line if you read against it a little > -- > and this is where i'm grateful for my critical training because the > doubleness in this poem seems apparent to me -- because the problem was > Bundy's function and this recognition would have to be in the poem i'd > think > for the poem to work, and once you open the poem to that you open the poem > to a nonviolent backstory -- if you are willing to read against the facts > of > history in favor of analytical possibility which is also, in a sense, a > fact > of history -- i'm not quite sure quite how to get there analytically -- a > few pacifist writers are on my desk in addition to Thich Nhat Hanh, and > the > essential William Stafford, and the ones still to read many other authors > writing on total nonviolence, along with a sheaf of papers that came today > about Colombia -- this is what i want to find out -- how to get there -- > in > concrete terms -- i think Bourdieu's concept of the logic of practice > would > address this, and will look again at my books > --any other thoughts i am interested to hear > > On 8/29/06, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > > > > That's an interesting perspective. I've always thought that one of the > > major faults of the various descendents of the New Left is their > rampant, > > unacknowledged, middle class elitism. It's part and parcel of what's > > alienated and weakened labor in the united states, and without labor, > the > > left doesn't have an organizational base beyond a small group of efete, > > self-congratulatory middle class self-described "activists" who are > > completely politically ineffective. the left is nothing without the > support > > of the people it aims to serve, and since the sixties and the > mindbogglingly > > stupid antics of groups like the weathermen, the left has done nothing > to > > earn the support of those people. quid pro quo=george w. bush. > > > > > > On Tue, 29 Aug 2006, j. kuszai wrote: > > > > > my friends at anarchist paper fifth estate hated this poem, since hey > > have > > > funny ideas about poetry, have little patience for the WUO (in some > > cases > > > having been around for the street fights, etc.) -- but mostly because > > they have > > > never gone to professional poet or professional critic school. > while > > there > > > is a lot to dislike about this poem, i think it's interesting and > worth > > > thinking about as an artifact of that time. there are a bunch of > > people on > > > this list who taught me how to read without getting mixed up with > making > > > aesthetic judgments. i think the reading of poetry -- as a nuanced > > act > > > informed by certain literary and cultural theories, yes, say bourdieu > of > > > raymond williams -- has something to teach leftwing activist > > culture. (this > > > is something i've learned, anyhow). i'm not sure that this was > always > > the > > > case > > > > > > anyhow, this pretty much uses up my two posts. > > > > > > HELP! please order factory school books. since bill and i both moved > > to the > > > city, we're now facing extreme cash crunch and our ability to do these > > projects > > > is seriously impeded without further sales. i know of two courses in > > queens > > > that are using this WUO book in class, and if anyone wants to use them > > in a > > > class, it really helps to sell a bunch of books at once. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For the SLA > > > > > > > > > They call it terror > > > if you are few and have no B-52s > > > if you are not a head of state > > > with an army and police > > > if you have neither napalm > > > nor tanks nor electronic battlefields > > > terror is if you are dispossessed > > > and have only your own two hands > > > each other > > > and your rage > > > It is not terror > > > if you are New York's Finest > > > and you shoot a ten-year old Black child in the back > > > because you think Black people > > > all look like > > > they've just committed a robbery > > > It is not terror if you are ITT > > > and buy the men > > > who line Chilean doctors up in their hospital > corridors > > > and shoot them for supporting the late > > > democratic government of their country > > > It is not terror but heroism > > > if you were captured by the Vietnamese > > > for dropping fragmentation bombs > > > on their schools and hospitals > > > Only those who have nothing > > > can be terrorists > > > > > > Brothers and sisters, let us choose > > > our weapons carefully and humanely > > > let us use no torture > > > or napalm > > > or genocide > > > but do not be fooled > > > there is no weapon they will allow > > > nothing that works will be called legitimate > > > unless we fight for it > > > unless we educate ourselves and others > > > unless we separate resistance from oppression > > > The same editorials that scream terrorism > > > screamed mob rule > > > at the civil-rights marches of the early sixties > > > at the anti-war demonstrations > > > thousands of busted heads later > > > they say, of course > > > we always upheld the right to peaceful protest > > > > > > The attitudes they offer up in print > > > with little tabs, cut them out and wear them > > > written by men who have not seen > > > a jail cell from the inside > > > or hunger > > > or the face of a duly constituted officer > > > of the law as he says > > > make one move and you'll be dead > > > they say we cannot condone violence > > > but watch out > > > for whether they say it about murdering prisoners > > > at Attica > > > or about kidnapping Patricia Hearst > > > about the disinherited > > > or about the inheritors > > > > > > As we find our way slowly > > > to use the means available to us > > > as wisely as we can > > > there will be mistakes > > > but do not let the enemy > > > define the mistakes > > > because he is experienced > > > and has ten thousand printing presses at his back > > > behind which he hides the tanks and guns > > > he will say, the people don't support you > > > and saying it can make it so > > > if we agree > > > he will say, you only turn off > > > those you say you are fighting for > > > he is helpful > > > no anti-war march > > > no sit-in > > > no teach-in > > > but had its helpful editor to say > > > how much more we could accomplish by doing less > > > or preferably nothing > > > while the people of Vietnam > > > patiently explained their cause to the world > > > but did not stop shooting down the bombers > > > for fear of alienating someone > > > > > > Watch out > > > for what they turn into news > > > and what they quietly forget > > > What if all the headlines > > > and stories about Solzhenitsyn > > > had said instead > > > Millions of Humans > > > Held in Semi-Slavery > > > Deprived of Every Human and Legal Right > > > Families Forcibly Torn Apart > > > Strikes Broken by Mass Murder > > > Hundreds of Thousands Imprisoned Without Trial > > > in Southern Africa? > > > (Is it because of their impartial humanity > > > that they hear > > > the cry of one czarist intellectual > > > drowning out the screams of > > > 20 million Black Africans?) > > > Or 25,000 U.S. Troops Remain in Thailand > > > the war in Southeast Asia > > > isn't over but continues > > > directed as before by U.S. officials > > > and U.S. money > > > U.S. advisors who changed their uniforms > > > into civilian clothes and call it by another name > > > or worse, do not call it anything at all > > > but hope the world will forget > > > and let them carry on their dirty business undisturbed > > > while solemn conferences are held on what to do > > > about the "international terrorism" of the Palestinians > > > who disrupt the peaceful prosperity of tourism > > > with annoying reminders > > > that their land has been stolen from them > > > and they have been left with nothing > > > but their courage and the justness of their cause > > > with which to win it back > > > poor enough weapons > > > we can help supply some others > > > by shouting and whispering on every corner > > > the story of their struggle > > > a people utterly deprived of its homeland > > > > > > Sisters and brothers, think hard before you jump > > > onto the bandwagon > > > of condemning terrorism > > > remember who is making the definitions > > > remember not to strengthen the hand > > > that will turn in an instant > > > against every means of resistance to oppression > > > That bandwagon rolls straight toward fascism > > > do not forget the real terrorists > > > that lurk behind the masks of heads of state > > > do not be afraid to hold strong together > > > with all who dare to struggle. > > > > > > > > > Spring 1974 > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 09:38:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Chace Subject: Re: a few reviews In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20060812082128.02a6ec00@english.upenn.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear Charles: Joel Chace here: poetry editor of 5_trope (online); we met a couple of years ago when you read at Kutztown University-- had a couple of beers together, & I drove you to the actual venue. I'm contacting you for two reasons. First, I hope you'll consider e-mailing me some of your recent, unpublished poetry for potential use in a future issue of 5_trope. Second, as a follow-up to your note, below, regarding the "Notable Books," I wonder if you would like me to send you one or more complimentary review copies of a recent collection of mine from anabasis/xtant? If so, I'll be more than happy to provide. I hope you are well! Sincerely, Joel Chace On 8/14/06, Charles Bernstein wrote: > I am running behind on a compilation list of "Notable Books" for the > past year or two: just too many to ever get to the end. Well, maybe > September. For the moment, I have posted short reviews of (mostly not > so new) books by Gil Sorrentino, Ko Un, Colin Browne, Robert Kelly, & > Vito Acconci at http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/bernstein/blog > > & in the meantime just got an advance copy of *Girly Man*, which will > be out from the University of Chicago press in about a month. > > Charles Bernstein > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 09:55:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: heidi arnold Subject: signing off MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline thanks ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 07:35:36 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: INFO: london--poetry for lebanon + open mic MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT >>INFO: london--poetry for lebanon + open mic ============================================= POETRY FOR LEBANON Wednesday, 27th September, 7.30-10.30 p.m. Foyer Bar, RADA, Malet Street, London WC1E 7JN Entry - A minimum donation of £5-10.00 --- In collaboration with MAP (Medical Aid for Palestine) Loose Muse & Angel Poetry presents ……. POETRY FOR LEBANON A Benefit - All profits to go to Humanitarian relief efforts in Lebanon. 25 of London’s best performing Poets in a kaleidoscope of spoken word + Open Mike spots available For more information, contact Agnes on agnesmorgn@aol.com If you can’t make it on the night, send a donation (cheque payable to MAP) to Agnes c/o 1 Bridge Street, London E15 4BG ############################################# this is e-drum, a listserv providing information of interests to black writers and diverse supporters worldwide. e-drum is moderated by kalamu ya salaam (kalamu@aol.com). -- Stay Strong -"I testified/My mama cried/Black people died/When the other man lied" -- chuck d "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as) \ "We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit to a process of humiliation." --patrick o'neil \ "...we have the responsibility to make no deal with the oppressor" --harry belafonte \ "...in time, we will look back to this age with incredulity and amazement -- and victories like Hamas in Israel will be the *best* of our memories." -- mumia abu jamal -- "what state? what union?" "...these people generate wars in Asia and Africa,...These are the people who, in the last century, caused several devastating wars. In one world war alone, they killed over 60 million people.... In the near future, Allah willing, we will put you to trial in courts established by the peoples...."-- mahmoud ahmadinejad \ http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a047braithwaite.php http://cleveland.indymedia.org/uploads/2006/07/olivet___h.a.t.s_in_the_square___loud_ruffa1b.mp3 \ http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7255.php \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date \ http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/en_fins__clichy-sous_bois_amixquiet-_lordpatch_the_giver__.mp3 \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ \ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 10:46:28 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cynie Cory Subject: Piggybacking: Atlanta Poets In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Can anyone give me an email or phone number re: The Atlanta Poetry Group. I'm also new to the area and know no one. I've done a search for the group on the internet and nothing turns up beyond the name itself. Help me please! I am in suburbia! Cynie Cory Mairead Byrne wrote: Dear Lori, The Atlanta Poetry Group certainly is very much around, or was in April when I read with Randy Prunty at Emory. He was electric. Also met with John Lowther, Tracey Gagne, Mark Prejsnar, Alka Roy, and more -- and heard enough about missing members to seriously want to meet them too. It was a very sweet reading, arranged by the APG and hosted by Bruce Covey, with a small, keen, ultra-alert attendance. We all got together afterwards & it was the best! Great conversation, unbeatable commitment. John Lowther gave me a big envelope stuffed with APG publications. The whole thing was bracing. As the AWP will be in Atlanta in 2007 I gave heavy encouragement for an APG event on or off program; I hope to god I have to a chance to hear more from these guys and get some of that old APG superfuel again. Mairead Mairéad Byrne Associate Professor of English Rhode Island School of Design 2 College Street Providence, RI 02903 www.maireadbyrne.blogspot.com >>> lori.emerson@GMAIL.COM 08/29/06 5:00 PM >>> Hi everyone - settling into Atlanta and trying to figure out where the poetry is - does anyone know if the Atlanta Poets Group is still around? Their website has been disabled and my google search hasn't turned up much. And any other reading series other than Poetry at Tech? thanks for tips! (but no tips for thanks - couldn't resist--) Lori --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 13:49:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Baldwin Subject: Re: Atlanta Poets Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I used to be APG-er when I was in Atlanta. They're still around, though their membership has changed over the years. Try emailing James Sanders at james-sanders@comcast.net or Randy Prunty at RANDY_E_PRUNTY@fc.dekalb.k12.ga.us. Sandy ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 12:17:14 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Loretta Clodfelter Subject: Summer 2006 issue of there MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline there is here! with work from: Glenn Bach, Christophe Casamassima, Laurel DeCou, Jacob Eichert, Meg Hamill, Halvard Johnson, Ted Keller, Su Pike, Linda V. Russo, Sarah Trott, and Donald Wellman. http://www.therejournal.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 12:33:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: alexander saliby Subject: Re: Piggybacking: Atlanta Poets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Lorie, Cynie, et al Atlanta is poetry, from the traffic snarl-ups on the 75/85 interchange = mess in mid-town early mornings to the winding serenity of the back = streets off Paces Ferry Rd, particularly in Spring when the Dogwoods are = in full bloom. =20 You must not seek poetry by finding poets, that is in truth finding = only companionship among like minded souls. Poetry is in the place and = in the people, all the people (with the possible exception of the = transplants from New Jersey who think that laying on the horn of their = vehicle will in some way alleviate traffic tie-ups). =20 Familiarize yourself with the place and develop an appreciation for = southern life-style; that should include exposure to southern born = natives of the greater Atlanta area. I hold dearest among my friends in = many states and countries, those friends who were born and continue to = live in the Atlanta area; they are poets, politicians, janitors and = journalists... One fellow, now 84, is a dirt farmer who has never in = his life been further than 50 miles from his Georgia home. He plays = fiddle badly, but does so with an energy worthy of a concert violinist. = You will not find his kind in places where only poets congregate. =20 And I envy you the journey you are about to undertake... Alex=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Cynie Cory=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 10:46 AM Subject: Piggybacking: Atlanta Poets Can anyone give me an email or phone number re: The Atlanta Poetry = Group. I'm also new to the area and know no one. I've done a search for = the group on the internet and nothing turns up beyond the name itself.=20 Help me please! I am in suburbia! Cynie Cory Mairead Byrne > wrote: Dear = Lori, The Atlanta Poetry Group certainly is very much around, or was in = April when I read with Randy Prunty at Emory. He was electric. Also = met with John Lowther, Tracey Gagne, Mark Prejsnar, Alka Roy, and more = -- and heard enough about missing members to seriously want to meet them = too. It was a very sweet reading, arranged by the APG and hosted by = Bruce Covey, with a small, keen, ultra-alert attendance. We all got = together afterwards & it was the best! Great conversation, unbeatable = commitment. John Lowther gave me a big envelope stuffed with APG = publications. The whole thing was bracing. As the AWP will be in = Atlanta in 2007 I gave heavy encouragement for an APG event on or off = program; I hope to god I have to a chance to hear more from these guys = and get some of that old APG superfuel again. Mairead Mair=E9ad Byrne Associate Professor of English Rhode Island School of Design 2 College Street Providence, RI 02903 www.maireadbyrne.blogspot.com >>> lori.emerson@GMAIL.COM 08/29/06 = 5:00 PM >>> Hi everyone - settling into Atlanta and trying to figure out where the poetry is - does anyone know if the Atlanta Poets Group is still around? Their website has been disabled and my google search hasn't turned up much. And any other reading series other than Poetry at Tech? thanks for tips! (but no tips for thanks - couldn't resist--) Lori =20 --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great = rates starting at 1=A2/min. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 11:45:31 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Dalachinsky Subject: Re: a few reviews MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit who's charles?? can i be charles???? oh htat charles or that charles b. b b.... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 14:58:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cynie Cory Subject: Re: Piggybacking: Atlanta Poets In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Alex, I've spent a lot of time in Atlanta. I've lived in the South for almost 20 years. I also know how to seek poetry which I've been doing much longer than those 20 years. By the way, never in my journey have I found a "southern lifestyle." But thanks for your good will. Cynie alexander saliby wrote: Dear Lorie, Cynie, et al Atlanta is poetry, from the traffic snarl-ups on the 75/85 interchange mess in mid-town early mornings to the winding serenity of the back streets off Paces Ferry Rd, particularly in Spring when the Dogwoods are in full bloom. You must not seek poetry by finding poets, that is in truth finding only companionship among like minded souls. Poetry is in the place and in the people, all the people (with the possible exception of the transplants from New Jersey who think that laying on the horn of their vehicle will in some way alleviate traffic tie-ups). Familiarize yourself with the place and develop an appreciation for southern life-style; that should include exposure to southern born natives of the greater Atlanta area. I hold dearest among my friends in many states and countries, those friends who were born and continue to live in the Atlanta area; they are poets, politicians, janitors and journalists... One fellow, now 84, is a dirt farmer who has never in his life been further than 50 miles from his Georgia home. He plays fiddle badly, but does so with an energy worthy of a concert violinist. You will not find his kind in places where only poets congregate. And I envy you the journey you are about to undertake... Alex ----- Original Message ----- From: Cynie Cory To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 10:46 AM Subject: Piggybacking: Atlanta Poets Can anyone give me an email or phone number re: The Atlanta Poetry Group. I'm also new to the area and know no one. I've done a search for the group on the internet and nothing turns up beyond the name itself. Help me please! I am in suburbia! Cynie Cory Mairead Byrne > wrote: Dear Lori, The Atlanta Poetry Group certainly is very much around, or was in April when I read with Randy Prunty at Emory. He was electric. Also met with John Lowther, Tracey Gagne, Mark Prejsnar, Alka Roy, and more -- and heard enough about missing members to seriously want to meet them too. It was a very sweet reading, arranged by the APG and hosted by Bruce Covey, with a small, keen, ultra-alert attendance. We all got together afterwards & it was the best! Great conversation, unbeatable commitment. John Lowther gave me a big envelope stuffed with APG publications. The whole thing was bracing. As the AWP will be in Atlanta in 2007 I gave heavy encouragement for an APG event on or off program; I hope to god I have to a chance to hear more from these guys and get some of that old APG superfuel again. Mairead Mairéad Byrne Associate Professor of English Rhode Island School of Design 2 College Street Providence, RI 02903 www.maireadbyrne.blogspot.com >>> lori.emerson@GMAIL.COM 08/29/06 5:00 PM >>> Hi everyone - settling into Atlanta and trying to figure out where the poetry is - does anyone know if the Atlanta Poets Group is still around? Their website has been disabled and my google search hasn't turned up much. And any other reading series other than Poetry at Tech? thanks for tips! (but no tips for thanks - couldn't resist--) Lori --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. --------------------------------- Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small Business. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 22:18:45 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: 9/9 early | Garden Party with Fuchs, Prewar Yardsale, Turner, and Ward Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable please forward ---------------- *Take your first stop on Dana Ward Day* Garden Party with Olive Juice Music and Boog City Sat. Sept. 9, 2:00 p.m., free a summer series, in the Suffolk Street Community Garden Suffolk St., bet. Houston & Stanton sts. NYC readings from Greg Fuchs and Dana Ward music from Prewar Yardsale and Nan Turner Curated and with introductions by Boog City editor and publisher David Kirschenbaum and Olive Juice Music head Matt Roth --------- **Boog City is a New York City-based small press now in its 15th year and East Village community newspaper of the same name. It has also published 35 volumes of poetry and various magazines, featuring work by Allen Ginsberg and Lawrence Ferlinghetti among others, and theme issues on baseball, women=B9s writing, and Louisville, KY. It hosts and curates two regular performance series--d.a. levy lives: celebrating the renegade press, where each month a non-NYC small press and its writers and a musical act of their choosing is hosted at Chelsea=B9s ACA Galleries; and Classic Albums Live, where 5-13 local musical acts perform a classic album live at venues including The Bowery Poetry Club, CBGB=B9s, and The Knitting Factory. Past albums have included Elvis Costello, My Aim is True; Nirvana, Nevermind; an= d Liz Phair, Exile in Guyville. **Olive Juice Music is a D.I.Y. label, studio, and mail-order distributor based in New York City and interested in helping people who are in the developmental stages of trying to do something with their art. Olive Juice Music is not a traditional record label. The artists associated with Olive Juice take an active part in how their music is produced, financed, and marketed. They in turn receive more of the profits gained from the sales of their records directly, which is how it should be. The strength of Olive Juice relies upon the active participation of its members to share resource= s and help promote a communal spirit among everyone involved as well as claiming responsibility for taking their art to wherever they would like it to go. **Greg Fuchs is the author of Came Like It Went (Buck Downs Books; Washington, D.C.) and Uma Ternura (Canvas and Companhia, Porto). He has wor= k in Thus Spake The Corpse: An Exquisite Corpse Reader 1988-1998 (Black Sparrow Press; Santa Rosa, California). He is a member of subpress, a collective of writers, dedicated to publishing poetry. Fuchs works as an editor, writer, and photographer in New York. **Prewar Yardsale says: We play a bucket and a tincan and a guitar with a fuzzbox and a flute and a tamborine. We sing songs that we write in bed at night after our son goes to sleep. We are part of a really cool collective of artists on a website called olivejuice music. We play shows in New York and once in awhile in Paris and London. We have two full albums out on olivejuice music, called Lowdown and we are singing a sad song. We also hav= e a live cdr called Washington Soundboard Recording. We also have a 7" single that was put out in England on a-ok records, with four songs on it. We are thinking about releasing a cd with our Peel session that we did in 2003 on the John Peel show on BBC. We love music, and we love to play shows when we can, and we love olivejuice music. **Nan Turner is from Washington State. Nan is a member of the 3-piece outfi= t known as Pantsuit. Nan discovered rock and roll on a college semester in London supposedly studying British Political Drama. What she was really doing was going to hear riotous grrrl bands like Linus, Huggy Bear, and Skinned Teen, and imagining the day she would wield a guitar and sing songs= . When she returned to her college in New Jersey, she started a band that eventually became Bionic Finger (1996-2001). It was during the Finger years that Nan met Major Matt, her significant other and bandmate (see Schwervon!). She started playing solo after Bionic Finger ended, writing songs on guitar, keys, and drums. Nan has released one solo ep to date, entitled Leg Out. Christine "Sharky" Murray (former Finger and also a membe= r of Pantsuit) plays bass on it and Sam from The Leader plays drums. Nan is currently working on a new batch of solo songs. Her hobbies include feeding Gummo, making mixed tapes, and knitting. She is a Virgo. **Dana Ward is the author of New Couriers (Dusie, 2006), Standards (Sea.Lamb.Press, 2004) and I Didn=B9t Build This Machine (Boog Literature, 2004). Recent work is out in Mirage #4/Periodical, Wherever We Put Our Hats= , New College Review, and elsewhere. He lives in Cincinnati and edits Cy Press. ----------- Directions: F to Second Ave. http://www.writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/Fuchs.html http://olivejuicemusic.com/ http://olivejuicemusic.com/prewaryardsale.html http://www.myspace.com/prewaryardsale http://olivejuicemusic.com/nan.html http://www.myspace.com/884332 http://herecomeseverybody.blogspot.com/2004/11/dana-ward-is-editor-of-cy-pr= e ss-be.html -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 22:19:01 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: 9/9 late | Boog City presents Cy Press, Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs, and Jonny Farrow Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable please forward ---------------- *Conclude Dana Ward Day Here* Boog City presents d.a. levy lives: celebrating the renegade press This month=B9s featured presses Cy Press (Cincinnati) and Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs (Brooklyn, NY) Sat. Sept. 9, 7:00 p.m., free this month at KGB Bar 85 E.4th St. NYC =20 Event will be hosted by Cy Press editor Dana Ward and=20 Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs editor Brenda Iijima Featuring readings from Cy Press authors Stacy Szymaszek and Karen Weiser=20 and Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs authors Martha Oatis and Evelyn Reilly With music from Jonny Farrow There will be wine, cheese, and crackers, too. =20 Curated and with an introduction by Boog City editor David Kirschenbaum =8B=8B=8B=8B=8B- *About Cy Press* Cy Press is a publisher of contemporary poetry located in Cincinnati. In addition to the verse annual Magazine Cypress, we also print small run chapbooks by new American poets, including Julian Brolaski, Brandon Brown, Stacy Szymaszek, Karen Weiser, and others. *About Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs* Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs endeavors to publish works that possess a vitality and holistically consider emotional and political realms to say th= e least. Works that venture out beyond writing program platforms and communit= y expectations. Works that have substantiality in the way of vision. Authors have included E. Tracy Grinnell, Jill Magi, Jonas Mekas, and Peter Lamborn Wilson. *Overall Performer Bios* **Martha Oatis' chapbook, from Percept was recently published by Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs. She grew up in Massachusetts and lives in Brooklyn. Sh= e teaches poetry in the New York public school system. She recently returned from a poetry venture in Chile. Her mixed-genre work has been exhibited at Wow Cafe, AS220, and the Brown Suede Fringe Festival. Other poetry is forthcoming from Aufgabe. **Evelyn Reilly lives in New York City and writes poetry, as well as text for museum exhibits on historical and cultural subjects. Her first book, Hiatus, was published by Barrow Street Press in 2004 and selected by Cole Swenson as a runner-up for the Poetry Society of America's Norma Farber First Book Award. She has taught visual poetics at The Poetry Project at St= . Mark's Church and co-curates, with Brenda Iijima, the winter segment of the Segue Reading Series. A new chapbook, Fervent Remnants of Reflective Surfaces, is just out from Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs. **Stacy Szymaszek is from Milwaukee, where she worked at Woodland Pattern Book Center for six years. She is now the program coordinator at the Poetry Project at St. Mark's Church in New York CIty. Her chapbooks include Some Mariners (EtherDome Press, 2004), Mutual Aid (gong, 2004) and Pasolini Poem= s (Cy Press, 2005). Her book Emptied of all Ships is out from Litmus Press. **Karen Weiser is the author of Heads Up Fever Pile, Eight Positive Trees (Pressed Wafer), Placefullness (Ugly Duckling Presse), and Pitching Woo (Cy Press, forthcoming). She lives in New York City. **music** **Jonny Farrow is a composer of multi-genre new sound works focusing on sound compositions involving field recordings and improvised sound. He is a= n active member of the New York Society for Acoustic Ecology and as such will be participating in many sound events around the city this fall. His works can be heard on the Giant Ear show regularly broadcast around the world via the www.free103point9.org media player. =8B=8B=8B=8B=8B=8B Directions: F to 2nd Avenue Venue is bet. 2nd and 3rd avenues =20 http://www.cypresspoetry.com/ http://openmouth.org/YoYoLabs/ http://jonnyfarrow.net/ Next event: Thurs. Oct. 5 Palm Press (Long Beach, CA) http://www.palmpress.org/ =8B=20 David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 02:29:42 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: P Ganick Subject: new titles from blue lion books Comments: To: spidertangle@yahoogroups.com BLUE LION BOOKS accounces FIVE NEW TITLES myesis vol 1, Jim Leftwich myesis vol 2, Jim Leftwich Hotel di Roma, J Hayes Hurley In the Weaver's Valley, William Allegrezza Post ~ Twyla, Jack Kimball for more information about these books and ordering instructions, please click on: blue lion books publishes experimental texts longer than 250 pages. we seek to advance the cause of the long-poem into the 21st cen- tury. submissions of poetry and visual poetry should be sent to: and people submitting fiction should email for information. another site for more information about sub- missions is: SUPPORT EXPERIMENTAL POETRY AND FICTION ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 20:39:29 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brigitte Byrd Subject: Atlanta Poets and Clayton State University Reading Series In-Reply-To: <20060830215827.28215.qmail@web30705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I moved to Atlanta a year ago, or rather unfortunately to the suburb (like Cynie, except she lives north and I live South of Atlanta). This makes things a bit more complicated, but still I found a few poets who were all very welcoming. My contacts at the Atlanta Poets Group: John Lowther at j.lo@earthlink.net Mark Prejsnar at m.prejsnar@worldnet.att.net And Bruce Covey at bcovey@emory.edu. He runs a great poetry series at Emory. Actually I'm reading there on September 21st with Kirsten Kaschock. I teach creative writing at Clayton State University (Southern Crescent of Atlanta) and started a reading series (fiction, nonfiction, poetry). Each event is followed by a Q&A session and, well, book signing. Actually, Cynie was a guest last fall. I have invited only one poet this semester (I teach fiction this semester), but I have booked poets exclusively for the spring semester (I will teach poetry then). Below is the schedule. I had attached a poster announcing the fall events, but it was refused. . . . 9/05/06 Robert Olen Butler 9/25/06 Ken Foster 10/17/06 Tony Morris 11/09/06 R.M. Berry 10/28/06 Paul Shepherd 01/22/07 Nat Anderson 02/28/07 Camille Martin 03/20/07 Bruce Covey 04/12/07 David Dodd Lee My e-mail at Clayton State is BrigitteByrd@clayton.edu. I hope this will help. Brigitte Brigitte Byrd http://a-s.clayton.edu/bbyrd/Homepage.htm --------------------------------- Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small Business. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 02:15:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: noah eli gordon Subject: Secret Architecture by AARON KUNIN & Iowa by TRAVIS NICHOLS Comments: To: lucipo@lists.ibiblio.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed ************************************** Two new Braincase chapbooks now available: ______________________________ Secret Architecture by AARON KUNIN ---------------------------------------------------- selections from Kunin's notebooks 35 pages sentences $6 ____________________ Iowa by TRAVIS NICHOLS ----------------------------------- Faulkner fan? Carla Harryman fan? If so, you'll dig this... 47 pages prose $6 Braincase Press: Silkscreened covers designed by the artist Michael Labenz Limited to 100 copies each (pics here: http://braincasepress3.blogspot.com/ ) Checks made out to: Noah Eli Gordon 1014 E 10th Ave Denver, CO 80218 (please spread the word) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 11:37:32 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: reJennifer Bartlett Subject: Saint Elizabeth Street Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed _________________________________________________________________ Got something to buy, sell or swap? Try Windows Live Expo ttp://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwex0010000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://expo.live.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 11:39:33 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: reJennifer Bartlett Subject: Saint Elizabeth Street Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed The SES blog is up and running! A new issue of the magazine is soon to follow. www.saintelizabethstreet.com click on "online only" Exciting new pieces on Dj Spooky, sound, and Hillary Clinton! _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Spaces is here! It’s easy to create your own personal Web site. http://spaces.live.com/signup.aspx ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 13:35:02 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cindy King Subject: Re: Atlanta Poets and Clayton State University Reading Series In-Reply-To: <20060831033929.97895.qmail@web56013.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hey Brigitte and Cynie (and other poets in the ATL). Not exactly in Atlanta but close--Berry College in Rome, GA. Also new to the area with my ear to the ground. Any other news/information about poets 'round here is welcome. Sounds like there are enough of us to form our own group. Cindy (King) >From: Brigitte Byrd >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Atlanta Poets and Clayton State University Reading Series >Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 20:39:29 -0700 > >I moved to Atlanta a year ago, or rather unfortunately to the suburb (like >Cynie, except she lives north and I live South of Atlanta). This makes >things a bit more complicated, but still I found a few poets who were all >very welcoming. > > My contacts at the Atlanta Poets Group: > John Lowther at j.lo@earthlink.net > Mark Prejsnar at m.prejsnar@worldnet.att.net > > And Bruce Covey at bcovey@emory.edu. He runs a great poetry series at >Emory. Actually I'm reading there on September 21st with Kirsten >Kaschock. > > I teach creative writing at Clayton State University (Southern >Crescent of Atlanta) and started a reading series (fiction, nonfiction, >poetry). Each event is followed by a Q&A session and, well, book signing. >Actually, Cynie was a guest last fall. > > I have invited only one poet this semester (I teach fiction this >semester), but I have booked poets exclusively for the spring semester (I >will teach poetry then). Below is the schedule. I had attached a poster >announcing the fall events, but it was refused. . . . > > 9/05/06 Robert Olen Butler > 9/25/06 Ken Foster > 10/17/06 Tony Morris > 11/09/06 R.M. Berry > 10/28/06 Paul Shepherd > > 01/22/07 Nat Anderson > 02/28/07 Camille Martin > 03/20/07 Bruce Covey > 04/12/07 David Dodd Lee > > My e-mail at Clayton State is BrigitteByrd@clayton.edu. > > I hope this will help. Brigitte > >Brigitte Byrd >http://a-s.clayton.edu/bbyrd/Homepage.htm > >--------------------------------- >Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small >Business. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 08:01:32 -0700 Reply-To: ishaq1824@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: vancouver indy media disarmed just in time for school MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit humble an editor of vicindy has decided to stop all open publishing on vicindy medua and only allow comments. humble has also decided that vicindy is nolonger an indymedia. you must now apply to the editor for permission and declare your affiliations in order to be approved to post. the zionisnt have thanked the editors for their decision. http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=node/2367 -- Stay Strong -"I testified/My mama cried/Black people died/When the other man lied" -- chuck d "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as) \ "We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit to a process of humiliation." --patrick o'neil \ "...we have the responsibility to make no deal with the oppressor" --harry belafonte \ "...in time, we will look back to this age with incredulity and amazement -- and victories like Hamas in Israel will be the *best* of our memories." -- mumia abu jamal -- "what state? what union?" "...these people generate wars in Asia and Africa,...These are the people who, in the last century, caused several devastating wars. In one world war alone, they killed over 60 million people.... In the near future, Allah willing, we will put you to trial in courts established by the peoples...."-- mahmoud ahmadinejad \ http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a047braithwaite.php http://cleveland.indymedia.org/uploads/2006/07/olivet___h.a.t.s_in_the_square___loud_ruffa1b.mp3 \ http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7255.php \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date \ http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/en_fins__clichy-sous_bois_amixquiet-_lordpatch_the_giver__.mp3 \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ \ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 11:32:17 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Zoe Ward Subject: Archipelago Books at the Brooklyn Book Festival Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v622) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed After the Brooklyn Book Festival at Borough Hall, join us for a celebration of Archipelago Books' writers and translators! KAREN EMMERICH reads from Miltos Sachtouris' "Poems (1945-1971)" and PETER WORTSMAN reads from "Posthumous Papers of a Living Author." September 16th at 7:00 p.m. The Brazen Head Bar 228 Atlantic Avenue Happy hour drink prices all night long! Check out our website at www.archipelagobooks.org for more information on these translators and their work, and feel free to contact our editor, Zoe Ward, at zoe@archipelagobooks.org for more details on the event. Be sure to stop by the Archipelago Books / Ugly Duckling Presse table at the festival! Directions to the Brazen Head: By train: A/C/F to Jay St./Borough Hall, 2/3/4/5 to Borough Hall From Borough Hall: Walk four blocks south on Court St., turn left on Atlantic. See you there! Jill Schoolman & Zoe Ward Archipelago Books 25 Jay St. #203 Brooklyn NY 11201 T: 718.852.6134 F: 718.852.6135 Visit our new website! www.archipelagobooks.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 08:47:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cynie Cory Subject: Re: Atlanta Poets and Clayton State University Reading Series In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Cindy, Thanks for reaching out. Good to hear from you. Cynie Cindy King wrote: Hey Brigitte and Cynie (and other poets in the ATL). Not exactly in Atlanta but close--Berry College in Rome, GA. Also new to the area with my ear to the ground. Any other news/information about poets 'round here is welcome. Sounds like there are enough of us to form our own group. Cindy (King) >From: Brigitte Byrd >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Atlanta Poets and Clayton State University Reading Series >Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 20:39:29 -0700 > >I moved to Atlanta a year ago, or rather unfortunately to the suburb (like >Cynie, except she lives north and I live South of Atlanta). This makes >things a bit more complicated, but still I found a few poets who were all >very welcoming. > > My contacts at the Atlanta Poets Group: > John Lowther at j.lo@earthlink.net > Mark Prejsnar at m.prejsnar@worldnet.att.net > > And Bruce Covey at bcovey@emory.edu. He runs a great poetry series at >Emory. Actually I'm reading there on September 21st with Kirsten >Kaschock. > > I teach creative writing at Clayton State University (Southern >Crescent of Atlanta) and started a reading series (fiction, nonfiction, >poetry). Each event is followed by a Q&A session and, well, book signing. >Actually, Cynie was a guest last fall. > > I have invited only one poet this semester (I teach fiction this >semester), but I have booked poets exclusively for the spring semester (I >will teach poetry then). Below is the schedule. I had attached a poster >announcing the fall events, but it was refused. . . . > > 9/05/06 Robert Olen Butler > 9/25/06 Ken Foster > 10/17/06 Tony Morris > 11/09/06 R.M. Berry > 10/28/06 Paul Shepherd > > 01/22/07 Nat Anderson > 02/28/07 Camille Martin > 03/20/07 Bruce Covey > 04/12/07 David Dodd Lee > > My e-mail at Clayton State is BrigitteByrd@clayton.edu. > > I hope this will help. Brigitte > >Brigitte Byrd >http://a-s.clayton.edu/bbyrd/Homepage.htm > >--------------------------------- >Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small >Business. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 11:56:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Daniel f. Bradley" Subject: Re indy media school In-Reply-To: <44F6F9CC.2040707@shaw.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit frankly i would be suspicious of any thing calling it's self "indy" and extremly suspicous of anything that calls itself "indymedia" i'm really surprized the word ZOG wasn't used in any of this note just trying to stay free Ishaq wrote: humble an editor of vicindy has decided to stop all open publishing on vicindy medua and only allow comments. humble has also decided that vicindy is nolonger an indymedia. you must now apply to the editor for permission and declare your affiliations in order to be approved to post. the zionisnt have thanked the editors for their decision. http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=node/2367 -- Stay Strong -"I testified/My mama cried/Black people died/When the other man lied" -- chuck d "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as) \ "We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit to a process of humiliation." --patrick o'neil \ "...we have the responsibility to make no deal with the oppressor" --harry belafonte \ "...in time, we will look back to this age with incredulity and amazement -- and victories like Hamas in Israel will be the *best* of our memories." -- mumia abu jamal -- "what state? what union?" "...these people generate wars in Asia and Africa,...These are the people who, in the last century, caused several devastating wars. In one world war alone, they killed over 60 million people.... In the near future, Allah willing, we will put you to trial in courts established by the peoples...."-- mahmoud ahmadinejad \ http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a047braithwaite.php http://cleveland.indymedia.org/uploads/2006/07/olivet___h.a.t.s_in_the_square___loud_ruffa1b.mp3 \ http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7255.php \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date \ http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/en_fins__clichy-sous_bois_amixquiet-_lordpatch_the_giver__.mp3 \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ \ helping to kill your literati star since 2004 http://fhole.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 09:29:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Small Press Traffic Subject: SPT's fall lineup MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Here's our fall line-up -- for full details please see http://www.sptraffic.org/html/events/fall06.html Sept 15 The Wishing Well a new play by Kevin Killian & Larry Rinder Sept 22 CA Conrad & Magdalena Zurawski Sept 29 Jules Boykoff & Judith Goldman Oct 6 Predecessors Talk Joel Nickels on Literature as Hypnosis: Laura Riding's Critique of Modernism Oct 20 Poets In Need Benefit with Norman Fischer, Lyn Hejinian, Michael Rothenberg & Leslie Scalapino Oct 27 Dana Teen Lomax & Joan Retallack Nov 3 Douglas Kearney & Prageeta Sharma Nov 10 Predecessors Talk Elizabeth Arnold on Politics & Rhyme in Loy, Niedecker & Oppen Dec 1 Heather Nagami & Alli Warren Dec 8 Ted Pelton & Camille Roy I hope to see you here! Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson, Director Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center at CCA 1111 -- 8th Street San Francisco, CA 94107 415.551.9278 http://www.sptraffic.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 09:57:58 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nico Vassilakis Subject: issue#35 WOS - NW Concrete & Visual Poetry Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Whitewall of Sound is pleased to announce issue number 35- “Northwest Concrete & Visual Poetry,” guest-edited by Seattle poet Nico Vassilakis. This is- as far as we know- the first collection of poetry from the Northwestern US and Canada on cd. This issue features work by David Abel, Randy Adams, Jim Andrews, Jonathan Ball, derek beaulieu, Nancy Burr, Jason Christie, Jim Clinefelter, John Crouse, Kevin McPhereson Eckhoff, Brad Ford, David Francis, Crag Hill, Lionel Kearns, Joseph Keppler, Paul Lambert, Donato Mancini, Bryant Mason, F.A. Nettelbeck, mARK oWEns, ross priddle, Lanny Quarles, Thomas Lowe Taylor, Nico Vassilakis, and Ted Warnell. Also included are two videos- “the wizard uv time” by bill bissett and “Lengua(je” by mARK oWEns & Maria Jose Gonzales. Copies will be available at Printed Matter (NYC) and at selected bookstores in the USA and Canda =or= order directly from us at Whitewall of Sound 411 NE 22nd #21 Portland, OR 97232. Copies are $15.00 (post paid); make your check or money order payable to Jim Clinefelter. Whitewall of Sound has been published since 1983. The title is a reference to the music scene and industry that once rolled out of the editor Jim Clinefelter’s hometown of Akron, Ohio. Over the years, we have published many of the leading artists and writers in the international visual arts/poetry scene. We are one of the longest-running independent, self-financed magazines in the USA- we accept no advertising and deal directly with bookstores and our readers. We’re in this for the long haul- all aboard! feelfree to pass along ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 14:06:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eric Yost Subject: indy media school In-Reply-To: <20060831155659.84418.qmail@web88108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Daniel wrote: frankly i would be suspicious of any thing calling it's self "indy" ... and extremly suspicous of anything that calls itself "indymedia" Yeah I also noted a fascist drumbeat in that background, an intolerant little voice that said, "Brothers and sisters, it's okay to be different--as long as we all do it together!" ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 14:34:58 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lori Emerson Subject: Re: Atlanta Poets and Clayton State University Reading Series In-Reply-To: <20060831154727.7995.qmail@web30711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cindy, Brigitte, Cynie and all - thanks so much for this information on Atlanta and the warm welcome! I'm looking forward to meeting you all at an event soon - and by the way, I just got back from A Cappella books on Moreland - I had the most fun in there that I've had in a used bookstore in a long time - I picked up a first edition of Ashbery/Schuyler's A Nest of Ninnies, Michael Palmer's Selected Poems, and Norma Cole's Metamorphopsia - all for just $35! I'd be nice if someone (me?) could put together a website specifically to pool together all the Atlanta poetry groups and readings w/contact info etc. - Lori On 8/31/06, Cynie Cory wrote: > Hi Cindy, > > Thanks for reaching out. Good to hear from you. > > Cynie > > Cindy King wrote: Hey Brigitte and Cynie (and other poets in the ATL). Not exactly in Atlanta > but close--Berry College in Rome, GA. Also new to the area with my ear to > the ground. Any other news/information about poets 'round here is welcome. > Sounds like there are enough of us to form our own group. > > Cindy (King) > > > >From: Brigitte Byrd > >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >Subject: Atlanta Poets and Clayton State University Reading Series > >Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 20:39:29 -0700 > > > >I moved to Atlanta a year ago, or rather unfortunately to the suburb (like > >Cynie, except she lives north and I live South of Atlanta). This makes > >things a bit more complicated, but still I found a few poets who were all > >very welcoming. > > > > My contacts at the Atlanta Poets Group: > > John Lowther at j.lo@earthlink.net > > Mark Prejsnar at m.prejsnar@worldnet.att.net > > > > And Bruce Covey at bcovey@emory.edu. He runs a great poetry series at > >Emory. Actually I'm reading there on September 21st with Kirsten > >Kaschock. > > > > I teach creative writing at Clayton State University (Southern > >Crescent of Atlanta) and started a reading series (fiction, nonfiction, > >poetry). Each event is followed by a Q&A session and, well, book signing. > >Actually, Cynie was a guest last fall. > > > > I have invited only one poet this semester (I teach fiction this > >semester), but I have booked poets exclusively for the spring semester (I > >will teach poetry then). Below is the schedule. I had attached a poster > >announcing the fall events, but it was refused. . . . > > > > 9/05/06 Robert Olen Butler > > 9/25/06 Ken Foster > > 10/17/06 Tony Morris > > 11/09/06 R.M. Berry > > 10/28/06 Paul Shepherd > > > > 01/22/07 Nat Anderson > > 02/28/07 Camille Martin > > 03/20/07 Bruce Covey > > 04/12/07 David Dodd Lee > > > > My e-mail at Clayton State is BrigitteByrd@clayton.edu. > > > > I hope this will help. Brigitte > > > >Brigitte Byrd > >http://a-s.clayton.edu/bbyrd/Homepage.htm > > > >--------------------------------- > >Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small > >Business. > > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail. > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 11:51:40 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: Resent-From: Bill Berkson Comments: Originally-From: Bill Berkson From: Bill Berkson Subject: What's your idea of a good time? Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit WHAT'S YOUR IDEA OF A GOOD TIME?: INTERVIEWS AND LETTERS 1977-1985 Bill Berkson & Bernadette Mayer Tuumba Press, September 2006 ISBN 1-931157-08-1 $13.50. Available via Small Press Distribution, Berkeley orders@spdbooks.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 14:06:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: Re: indy media school In-Reply-To: <44F7251F.6080101@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable yep, I'm with you guys -- and was that "Zionisnt" a typo, or am I being naive? have to bear in mind wordplay ain't de facto soft and cuddly. also, I'm interested in this "fascism of the independently identified" -- what do you make of the tension created by defining yourself as an experimentalist, avant practitioner, indy what-have-you?=20 "I'm an independent thinker, and all of my friends agree with me."=20 is that a recipe for fascism? add a shovelful of anti-Zionism and you're sure to end up with something foul, whatever it's called... tl -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Eric Yost Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 13:06 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: indy media school Daniel wrote: frankly i would be suspicious of any thing calling it's self "indy" ... and extremly suspicous of anything that calls itself "indymedia" Yeah I also noted a fascist drumbeat in that background, an intolerant little voice that said, "Brothers and sisters, it's okay to be different--as long as we all do it together!" ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 12:14:29 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: indy media school In-Reply-To: <54AA9B41BC35F34EAD02E660901D8A5A07ACB4C7@TLRUSMNEAGMBX10.ERF.THOMSON.COM> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Every group will have it's poseurs and dilletantes, left wing politics and avant garde poetry being no exception. the thing about poseurs and dilletantes is that they are more concerned with being perceived as a member of some group rather than being interested in furthering the goals of that group. Hence there are tendencies towards fascistic group-think even among groups that exist specifically in opposition to such dangerous institutions. totalitarianism is an extreme of human social formation that can occur in any group following any set of principles or foundational rules. Which is how you get your Weather Underground's, your Baader-Meinhof Factions, and pretty much 90% of everything ever done in any art form. On Thu, 31 Aug 2006, Tom W. Lewis wrote: > yep, I'm with you guys -- and was that "Zionisnt" a typo, or am I being > naive? have to bear in mind wordplay ain't de facto soft and cuddly. > > also, I'm interested in this "fascism of the independently identified" > -- what do you make of the tension created by defining yourself as an > experimentalist, avant practitioner, indy what-have-you? > > "I'm an independent thinker, and all of my friends agree with me." > > is that a recipe for fascism? add a shovelful of anti-Zionism and you're > sure to end up with something foul, whatever it's called... > > tl > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] > On Behalf Of Eric Yost > Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 13:06 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: indy media school > > Daniel wrote: frankly i would be suspicious of any thing > calling it's self "indy" ... and extremly suspicous of > anything that calls itself "indymedia" > > > Yeah I also noted a fascist drumbeat in that background, an > intolerant little voice that said, "Brothers and sisters, > it's okay to be different--as long as we all do it together!" > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 13:26:53 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brigitte Byrd Subject: Re: Atlanta Poets and Clayton State University Reading Series In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Good to hear from you, Cindy. I had no idea you had moved to Georgia. Brigitte Cindy King wrote: Hey Brigitte and Cynie (and other poets in the ATL). Not exactly in Atlanta but close--Berry College in Rome, GA. Also new to the area with my ear to the ground. Any other news/information about poets 'round here is welcome. Sounds like there are enough of us to form our own group. Cindy (King) >From: Brigitte Byrd >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Atlanta Poets and Clayton State University Reading Series >Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 20:39:29 -0700 > >I moved to Atlanta a year ago, or rather unfortunately to the suburb (like >Cynie, except she lives north and I live South of Atlanta). This makes >things a bit more complicated, but still I found a few poets who were all >very welcoming. > > My contacts at the Atlanta Poets Group: > John Lowther at j.lo@earthlink.net > Mark Prejsnar at m.prejsnar@worldnet.att.net > > And Bruce Covey at bcovey@emory.edu. He runs a great poetry series at >Emory. Actually I'm reading there on September 21st with Kirsten >Kaschock. > > I teach creative writing at Clayton State University (Southern >Crescent of Atlanta) and started a reading series (fiction, nonfiction, >poetry). Each event is followed by a Q&A session and, well, book signing. >Actually, Cynie was a guest last fall. > > I have invited only one poet this semester (I teach fiction this >semester), but I have booked poets exclusively for the spring semester (I >will teach poetry then). Below is the schedule. I had attached a poster >announcing the fall events, but it was refused. . . . > > 9/05/06 Robert Olen Butler > 9/25/06 Ken Foster > 10/17/06 Tony Morris > 11/09/06 R.M. Berry > 10/28/06 Paul Shepherd > > 01/22/07 Nat Anderson > 02/28/07 Camille Martin > 03/20/07 Bruce Covey > 04/12/07 David Dodd Lee > > My e-mail at Clayton State is BrigitteByrd@clayton.edu. > > I hope this will help. Brigitte > >Brigitte Byrd >http://a-s.clayton.edu/bbyrd/Homepage.htm > >--------------------------------- >Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small >Business. Brigitte Byrd http://a-s.clayton.edu/bbyrd/Homepage.htm --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 16:56:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: Re: Fwd: A.Word.A.Day--palinode In-Reply-To: <44F4D5B3.4070704@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I enjoyed Eric's piece a lot... reminded me of the one time I could have seen Ginsberg read (at the B&N on Shattuck Ave., Berkeley), in 1995 -- instead I opted for Jane Eaglen singing Brunnhilde at the SF Opera...=20 I still kick myself for my choice, though maybe seeing Ginsberg in that venue would have made it a less treasured memory than the wistful vacuum of not having seen him... to the best of my knowledge, that Supermarket in CA (on University) is well and truly gone -- though I always thought the Andronico's about halfway between Shattuck and San Pablo would serve as a surrogate... -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Eric Yost Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 19:03 Here's my palinode of Allen Ginsberg's "A Supermarket in=20 California." -EY ___________ A Book Store in Manhattan What little warning I had of you tonight, Allen Ginsberg, as I walked up Broadway in headlights with a broken CD=20 player, self-consciously admiring the new Time-Warner Building. In my fatigue, and shopping for new career skills, I went into a chain book store, not dreaming of any chance meeting! What caffeination and what penury! Whole condos shopping at night! Carpets full of grad-students! Wives in=20 the Self Help, babies in the bestsellers!--and you, Noam=20 Chomsky, what were you doing in the humor section? I saw you, Allen Ginsberg, childless, salacious old=20 professor, poking among magazines in the front and eyeing=20 the male booksellers. I heard you asking questions of each: Who buys for the poetry section? Where do you hold signings? Are you the=20 manager? I wandered in and out of the displays of faced-out=20 paperbacks avoiding you, but monitored along with everyone=20 else, by the store surveillance system. We skirted past each other in the thronged aisles nimble=20 in our pretended reading of XML and wine guides, possessing=20 every professional perk, but never acknowledging the=20 homeless spare-changer outside. Where are you going, Allen Ginsberg? I am going the other way. Which way do your worn Buddhist boots point tonight? (I think of your book and Homer's Odyssey side-by-side=20 in the book store and feel absurd.) Will I have to pretend to walk all night through=20 expensive streets? The cabs add yellow to shade, lights out=20 in the stores, if I'm late again we'll both be unemployed. Will I be able to stroll dreaming of the lost America of=20 the Sixties past white stretch-limos in garages, home to my=20 yuppie neighborhood? Ah, dead icon, East Village celebrity, lucky old=20 derelict teacher, what America did you have when hipsters=20 began reading obituaries and you stepped from a smoke-free=20 bank and stood watching the ferry disappear to the black=20 shore of New Jersey? Manhattan, 2003 _______________ Regards to all, Eric Yost ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 15:20:09 -0700 Reply-To: ishaq1824@shaw.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ishaq Organization: selah7 Subject: A tale of two crises Lebanon rebuilds, New Orleans waits MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Lebanon rebuilds, New Orleans waits By Joyce Chediac Published Aug 23, 2006 11:21 PM listen: http://www.workersdaily.org/podcast/audio/jc_082506.mp3 A tale of two crises Lebanon rebuilds, New Orleans waits By Joyce Chediac Published Aug 23, 2006 11:21 PM In the Middle East, after a month of Israeli bombing, the people of Lebanon are digging themselves out from the rubble and struggling to return to their homes. In the United States, a full year after Hurricane Katrina, the people of New Orleans are still fighting to do the same thing: return home. It might seem odd to compare the two. After all, Lebanon is recovering from war, and New Orleans from a natural disaster and broken levees. But this is only the superficial story. A look at the New Orleans relief effort and its aftermath shows that poor people’s right to return home has become just as much a battle there as it is in Lebanon. In the United States, the New Orleans relief effort was spearheaded by the Federal Emergency Management Agency, Washington’s disaster relief arm. In Lebanon it is being organized by Hezbollah, the grassroots Lebanese resistance movement that George W. Bush calls “terrorist.” Which group would you want conducting a rescue effort if you lost your home? Let us see how the relief efforts compare. The rescues In New Orleans, the people who could not self-evacuate the city, including the sick and people too poor to afford cars, were left to their own devices when the waters rose. Many of the most vulnerable drowned in their homes. The tens of thousands of old, sick and infirm people who the city encouraged to gather in the Superdome until the storm passed were left there for five days. They had no medical attention, no sanitation, little water and food. Many died. Some 3,000 other flood survivors stranded at the Convention Center suffered the same fate. All day the television networks showed footage of people stranded on roofs waving hand-made “help me” signs, and others in the Superdome begging for water and medicine for dying seniors. Yet FEMA head Michael Brown said he didn’t realize the extent of the crisis until four days after the levees collapsed. Then he took another four days to rescue the survivors. In Lebanon, Hezbollah, the force fighting and defending the villages, at the same time started helping the population as soon as the Israeli bombing began. The Leba nese resistance provided the ambulances and scores of searchers who pulled people from the rubble. They helped organize getting tens of thousands of refugees to schools, public parks and private homes. (Christian Science Monitor, Aug. 16) In Beirut alone, Hezbollah organized 10 mobile medical teams that cared for 14 schools each, in two-day rotations, helping 48,000 people. Another 70,000 were treated in houses by other professionals. In a Hezbollah kitchen near downtown Beirut, volunteers prepared 8,000 hot meals a day—part of a daily total of 50,000 they distributed across Beirut, reported the Monitor. In New Orleans, families evacuated from the Superdome and the Convention Center were scattered all over the country. Parents were sometimes separated from children. Some didn’t know if loved ones lived or died. Three months after Katrina hit, 6,500 people were still unaccounted for, and more than 400 bodies still unidentified, according to the National Center for Missing Adults. In Lebanon, within 24 hours of the Aug. 14 cease-fire, Hezbollah had set up a hotline to help refugees, and so refugees could connect based on their place of residence, according to Lebanese TV. (www.foreignpolicy.com) In the Superdome, bodies remained for four or five days in 100-degree heat. Relatives standing vigil were forced to abandon the remains during the evacuation, sometimes at gunpoint. Bodies were left in flood waters, many to be discovered by loved ones returning home months later. Evacuees who had lost everything could not afford to bury their dead with dignity. Grieving relatives sent to different states could offer each other little comfort. After the cease-fire in Lebanon, finding and burying the dead with dignity became a priority. The resistance immediately began digging out bodies buried in the rubble and identifying them. Remains were held for burial until the family returned. Mass funerals were held, paid for by the resistance, so neighbors could comfort each other and lean on the communities’ strength. On Aug. 18, a caravan of cars made its way from one service to the next. Said Shiite cleric Sheik Shoue Qatoon, “It was decided that we would schedule the funerals so that we could all attend them all.” (AP, Aug. 19) Scattered in hotels around the country, without jobs or sources of income, New Orleans refugees were offered by Washing ton a maximum of $2,000 per family to live on. That was enough for a hotel room for two weeks. Even then, the media launched a racist campaign claiming to expose “cheaters” who were “misusing” the tiny sum. In December, New Orleans’ displaced people were given 15 days to leave hotels, with no further provisions made for them. The right to return On Aug. 14, Hezbollah leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah said he would give money for “decent and suitable furniture” and a year’s rent to any Lebanese who lost a home in the war. Beginning in the very poorest community of Dehiya south of Beirut, the resistance is distributing $12,000 per family, a huge sum in Lebanon where monthly rents average $300. (New York Times, Aug 16) A year later after the New Orleans flood, “thousands of people are living amid ruins that stretch for miles on end. ... All you see is debris, debris, debris. ... The reminders of death are everywhere.”(New York Times, June 21) Little to nothing has been done to rebuild the Ninth Ward. This majority African-American community is filled with rubble, coated with mud and mold. Advocates point out that much damage, such as advancing mold, could have been stopped if the area had been cleaned early on. Many residents would have gladly organized their own cleaning brigade, but they were banned entry for the first four months after the flood. In Lebanon, on Aug 14, the very day of the cease-fire, while Israel was withdrawing its troops from Southern Lebanon, there were reports that hundreds of Hez bollah members spread over dozens of villages across southern Lebanon began cleaning, organizing and surveying the damage. Men on bulldozers were busy cutting lanes through giant piles of rubble. Roads blocked with the remnants of buildings were, just a day after a cease-fire began, fully passable. The actions of both the Bush administration and key corporations indicate a determination to stop the African-Americans of New Orleans from returning to their communities. In September, the home insurance giant Allstate refused to reimburse New Orleans homeowners who had flood insurance policies.The company claimed the homes were destroyed by the wind, not by flood. (MarketWatch, Sept. 20, 2005) In October, the Bush administration reneged on its promised to provide thousands of mobile homes as temporary housing for returning refugees. (New York Times, Oct. 31, 2005) After promising New Orleans federal housing loans to repair and rebuild, it became apparent that no special loan provisions had been made for victims of the flood and that the White House was pushing for hurricane disaster-recovery loans at a higher rate than any other administration in the last 15 years. (USA Today, March15) Regarding public housing, in a thinly veiled racist attack, Housing and Urban Development Secretary Alphonso Jackson said in April that only the “best residents” should be allowed to return to public housing. (USA Today, April 25) And in June HUD, which had previously reported that it had 7,381 public apartments in New Orleans, now said it had only 2,000, and would demolish the rest. Meanwhile in Lebanon, a Hezbollah spokes person announced, “We have full information on all the buildings that have been destroyed or damaged. … “we will either pay for new flats or rebuild the buildings that were destroyed.” (Aljazzera.net, Aug. 19) Representatives of Jihad al-Binaa, Hezbollah’s construction arm, are touring the south to assess the damage and start repairing and rebuilding. (Beirut Daily Star Aug. 22) And what of those who could not wait, but have returned home in the devastated areas of the south before essential repairs have been made and services restored? “There are people from Hezbollah coming regularly to check on us and give us bread and other basic items,” said Mohammad Bazih, 30, from the village of Baakline. Residents of Zabqine, where tobacco is cultivated, told the press that Hezbollah was providing them with basic services. (Beirut Daily Star Aug. 22) This article is copyright under a Creative Commons License. Workers World, 55 W. 17 St., NY, NY 10011 Email: ww@workers.org Subscribe wwnews-subscribe@workersworld.net Support independent news http://www.workers.org/orders/donate.php site promotion Page printed from: http://www.workers.org/2006/world/two-crises-0831/ full article: http://www.workers.org/2006/world/two-crises-0831/ download mp3 http://www.workersdaily.org/podcast/audio/jc_082506.mp3 -- Stay Strong -"I testified/My mama cried/Black people died/When the other man lied" -- chuck d "Be a friend to the oppressed and an enemy to the oppressor" --Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib (as) \ "We restate our commitment to the peace process. But we will not submit to a process of humiliation." --patrick o'neil \ "...we have the responsibility to make no deal with the oppressor" --harry belafonte \ "...in time, we will look back to this age with incredulity and amazement -- and victories like Hamas in Israel will be the *best* of our memories." -- mumia abu jamal -- "what state? what union?" "...these people generate wars in Asia and Africa,...These are the people who, in the last century, caused several devastating wars. In one world war alone, they killed over 60 million people.... In the near future, Allah willing, we will put you to trial in courts established by the peoples...."-- mahmoud ahmadinejad \ http://www.sidebrow.net/2006/a047braithwaite.php http://cleveland.indymedia.org/uploads/2006/07/olivet___h.a.t.s_in_the_square___loud_ruffa1b.mp3 \ http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7255.php \ http://ilovepoetry.com/search.asp?keywords=braithwaite&orderBy=date \ http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/en_fins__clichy-sous_bois_amixquiet-_lordpatch_the_giver__.mp3 \ http://www.lowliferecords.co.uk/ \ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 15:55:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Baraban Subject: No comment In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I first saw this on the blog of journalist Marc Cooper... ________________________________ 'Flat Daddies' deploy to help Maine military families By Bangor Daily News Staff Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - Bangor Daily News << Back By Jackie Farwell Bangor Daily News Mary Holbrook's husband, Lt. Col. Randall Holbrook, goes everywhere with his family - to the grocery store, out to eat, camping, and even to Mary's most recent gynecologist appointment. The doting Hermon family man just waits and grins as Mary and their two sons, Justin, 14, and Logan, 5, go about their days. He doesn't say much, and he doesn't have any legs. That's because the ever-present Randall is actually a life-sized, foam board likeness of the real Randall from the waist up. He's a " Flat Daddy," one of many two-dimensional service members created through a National Guard program designed to ease the pain of separation for families of deployed troops. "It's comforting," Mary Holbrook said. "It did help me adjust a lot." The Flat Daddy - and Flat Mommy - effort geared up in Maine at the beginning of the year with the January deployment of the Brewer-based B Company, 3rd Battalion of the 172nd Mountain Infantry. The Guard pays to have a photo of the troop member blown up and provides supplies to families to attach the photo to foam board. The cutouts also are provided to parents and family members of childless service members. Spearheaded by Barbara Claudel, coordinator of the Maine National Guard's family program in Augusta, the endeavor has since provided more than 100 cutouts to service members' families. Randall Holbrook's family made his Flat Daddy likeness when he deployed to Afghanistan in January with the Maine Army Guard's 240th Engineer Group of Augusta. He is scheduled to be gone until April, his wife said Wednesday evening in the driveway of her Hermon farmhouse. "Where do you want to take Flat Daddy, Logan?" Holbrook asked her son. "To the movie theater," Logan replied, briefly breaking from crawling on the family sedan. That's one of the few places Flat Daddy hasn't visited, already having been toted to birthday parties, ballgames, school, the hairdresser, the babysitter's with Logan, and to the funeral of Mary Holbrook's mother. Justin dressed him in a Red Sox jersey and hat and watched a baseball game with Flat Daddy, he said. People sometimes give her funny looks when she takes Flat Daddy out in public, but many tell her they think it's a great idea, Mary Holbrook said. "Any time I get invited somewhere, I take it with me," she said. And the gynecologist? "He just thought it was really neat," she said. The cutout is so realistic that it gave her a scare when she returned to her car one day, having forgotten that she'd belted him into a seat, Mary Holbrook said. One place Flat Daddy doesn't go is her bed. The Guard wife doesn't take it that far, she said bashfully. Not that the Holbrooks don't have a little fun with Flat Daddy, which the real daddy might not tolerate. On Halloween, they dressed him up in a sumo wrestler costume. When the family first got him, they propped him up in a chair at dinnertime. "We put plates in front of him the first few days," Mary Holbrook said. "But he didn't eat much." The idea that a foam board cutout could alleviate the pain of a loved one's absence seems a little silly at first, but somehow it helps, Mary Holbrook said. "It makes you feel like he's right there," she said, as Flat Daddy rested in a nearby lawn chair. Sherri Fish of Bangor thought the head-to-toe Flat Daddy likeness of her husband, Maine Air National Guard Staff Sgt. Richard Fish, was a little foolish at first. She put it up on the door in her son Kevin's room, who was 3 years old when her husband deployed to Iraq in March 2005. Kevin didn't understand why his father had to leave and was so deeply angry that he wouldn't speak to Richard when he called home from Tikrit, Sherri Fish said. "It was really hard on him," she said. "It was probably the hardest thing I had to go through while Rich was gone." Then Sherri began hearing Kevin talking while alone in his room. "One night, I finally asked him, 'Who are you talking to?' And he said, 'I'm talking to Daddy," Fish said. "I just about broke down crying." "He'd sit at the end of his bed and tell him what went on at school that day," she said. Despite his anger at his father, Kevin somehow felt comfortable relating to the life-sized likeness, Sherri Fish said. She admits it helped her, too. "I'd catch myself just standing in Kevin's room, just looking at the picture," she said. Kevin continued talking to Flat Daddy after Richard Fish returned home in October 2005, chatting with the cutout while his father was working in the morning, Sherri Fish said. It's funny how a piece of foam board can ease a child's pain so much, "even though it's just a picture," she said. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 17:48:53 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Concrete Stir Fry Poems by Marko Niemi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit CONCRETE STIR FRY POEMS by Marko Niemi http://vispo.com/StirFryTexts/marko Marko Niemi (Finland) has written five "Concrete Stir Fry Poems" that extend the notion of the stir fry form into graphics. Of letters. He has also re-written the programming of the stir fry form in these concrete works. These five works play on relationship, statsis, and dynamism/transformation. For instance, "still-life" consists of the letters in the word LIFE discombobulatable into parts of each other via moving the mouse over the piece. "four musicians" consists of the letters in the word ECHO. These pieces are quite "concrete" in the Noigandrean sense concerning their simplicity and iconic nature; but they are also contemporary in their algorithmic, generative construction as things written out of programming code and graphics of letters. Marko's work, then, both extends the algorithmic exploration of language and other media implicit in the stir fry form and explores its relations with the earlier work of the concrete poets. The 'Stir Fry Texts' project began in 1999 ( http://vispo.com/StirFryTexts ). Since then, Pauline Masurel and Brian Lennon have written stir frys, and Shuen-shing Lee has translated one into Chinese. It is an ongoing project, apparently. The stir fry is basically a form (like a sonnett is a form) that can contain any sort of content that can be put in a web page (text, image, object, sound, etc). The content consists of n texts (and/or images, objects, etc), each of which is cut up into m pieces. When the wreader mouses over the mth part of the jth thang, it is replaced with the mth part of the (j+1)th thang. The piece retains its continuity, resulting sometimes in a defensive twitching that resists perfect control by the wreader; the behavior has been likened to a hedgehog if you try to touch its belly. Sadly, I cannot confirm this, not having ever touched a hedgehog's belly. The interface also provides controls to view each of the n thangs in their entirety, without discombobulation. In addition to writing the "Concrete Stir Fry Poems", Marko, in 2004, also helped update the programming. I wrote the DHTML code in 1999, when cross-browser/cross-platform DHTML was very hard to achieve, particularly given that the stir fry keyed on the innerHTML DHTML method, which had not been implemented at all in some browsers. Marko helped me update the programming so that the stir frys now work on most browsers and platforms. I see his new work in the "Concrete Stir Fry Poems" does not use the innerHTML method at all and is compactly described in a small .js file. ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 22:24:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Zimmerman Subject: Re: No comment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This takes the "Jesus tortilla" to a whole 'nother level. What if the kids prefer Flat Daddy when Randall comes home? Does Randall have a Flat Mommy? What would Mary say to that? Would he introduce FM to the kids as "Aunt Flattie"? ~ Dan Zimmerman (after a long day, feelin' a tad flat himself) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Baraban" To: Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 6:55 PM Subject: No comment >I first saw this on the blog of journalist Marc > Cooper... > > ________________________________ > > 'Flat Daddies' deploy to help Maine military families > > By Bangor Daily News Staff > > Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - Bangor Daily News << Back > > By Jackie Farwell > Bangor Daily News > > Mary Holbrook's husband, Lt. Col. Randall Holbrook, > goes everywhere with his family - to the grocery > store, out to eat, camping, and even to Mary's most > recent gynecologist appointment. The doting Hermon > family man just waits and grins as Mary and their two > sons, Justin, 14, and Logan, 5, go about their days. > > He doesn't say much, and he doesn't have any legs. > That's because the ever-present Randall is actually a > life-sized, foam board likeness of the real Randall > from the waist up. He's a " Flat Daddy," one of many > two-dimensional service members created through a > National Guard program designed to ease the pain of > separation for families of deployed troops. > > "It's comforting," Mary Holbrook said. "It did help me > adjust a lot." > > The Flat Daddy - and Flat Mommy - effort geared up in > Maine at the beginning of the year with the January > deployment of the Brewer-based B Company, 3rd > Battalion of the 172nd Mountain Infantry. The Guard > pays to have a photo of the troop member blown up and > provides supplies to families to attach the photo to > foam board. > > The cutouts also are provided to parents and family > members of childless service members. > > Spearheaded by Barbara Claudel, coordinator of the > Maine National Guard's family program in Augusta, the > endeavor has since provided more than 100 cutouts to > service members' families. > > Randall Holbrook's family made his Flat Daddy likeness > when he deployed to Afghanistan in January with the > Maine Army Guard's 240th Engineer Group of Augusta. He > is scheduled to be gone until April, his wife said > Wednesday evening in the driveway of her Hermon > farmhouse. > > "Where do you want to take Flat Daddy, Logan?" > Holbrook asked her son. > > "To the movie theater," Logan replied, briefly > breaking from crawling on the family sedan. > > That's one of the few places Flat Daddy hasn't > visited, already having been toted to birthday > parties, ballgames, school, the hairdresser, the > babysitter's with Logan, and to the funeral of Mary > Holbrook's mother. Justin dressed him in a Red Sox > jersey and hat and watched a baseball game with Flat > Daddy, he said. > > People sometimes give her funny looks when she takes > Flat Daddy out in public, but many tell her they think > it's a great idea, Mary Holbrook said. > > "Any time I get invited somewhere, I take it with me," > she said. > > And the gynecologist? > > "He just thought it was really neat," she said. > > The cutout is so realistic that it gave her a scare > when she returned to her car one day, having forgotten > that she'd belted him into a seat, Mary Holbrook said. > > > One place Flat Daddy doesn't go is her bed. The Guard > wife doesn't take it that far, she said bashfully. > > Not that the Holbrooks don't have a little fun with > Flat Daddy, which the real daddy might not tolerate. > On Halloween, they dressed him up in a sumo wrestler > costume. When the family first got him, they propped > him up in a chair at dinnertime. > > "We put plates in front of him the first few days," > Mary Holbrook said. "But he didn't eat much." > > The idea that a foam board cutout could alleviate the > pain of a loved one's absence seems a little silly at > first, but somehow it helps, Mary Holbrook said. > > "It makes you feel like he's right there," she said, > as Flat Daddy rested in a nearby lawn chair. > > Sherri Fish of Bangor thought the head-to-toe Flat > Daddy likeness of her husband, Maine Air National > Guard Staff Sgt. Richard Fish, was a little foolish at > first. > > She put it up on the door in her son Kevin's room, who > was 3 years old when her husband deployed to Iraq in > March 2005. Kevin didn't understand why his father had > to leave and was so deeply angry that he wouldn't > speak to Richard when he called home from Tikrit, > Sherri Fish said. > > "It was really hard on him," she said. "It was > probably the hardest thing I had to go through while > Rich was gone." > > Then Sherri began hearing Kevin talking while alone in > his room. > > "One night, I finally asked him, 'Who are you talking > to?' And he said, 'I'm talking to Daddy," Fish said. > "I just about broke down crying." > > "He'd sit at the end of his bed and tell him what went > on at school that day," she said. > > Despite his anger at his father, Kevin somehow felt > comfortable relating to the life-sized likeness, > Sherri Fish said. She admits it helped her, too. > > "I'd catch myself just standing in Kevin's room, just > looking at the picture," she said. > > Kevin continued talking to Flat Daddy after Richard > Fish returned home in October 2005, chatting with the > cutout while his father was working in the morning, > Sherri Fish said. > > It's funny how a piece of foam board can ease a > child's pain so much, "even though it's just a > picture," she said. > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com >