========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 17:58:29 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) In-Reply-To: <0cd49676c7a800428b5efe3f32404603@earthlink.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable What about One Shot Bodine? gb On Jul 31, 2007, at 5:07 PM, Tisa Bryant wrote: > > My "Indelible Imagemakers" list, in no order, hella long, and really, =20= > it could change tomorrow, and well it should; there are at least 20 =20= > filmmakers for my every mood. As for the top whatever, and voting, =20= > etc? Not interested. I'll leave that to some academy. These folks' =20= > works haunt, mark, stay with me, and I keep returning, seeking them =20= > out for more: > > Antonioni > Bergman > Jean-Pierre Melville > Alain Resnais > Renoir > Fellini > Almodovar > Kubrick > Godard > Kurosawa > Cassavetes > Sembene Ousmane (died last month; was also a novelist) > Bela Tarr > Coppola > Ozu > Jacques Rivette > Billy Wilder > Charles Burnett (and not just for KILLER OF SHEEP) > Satyajit Ray > Flora Gomes (and all the overlooked "African New Wave" filmmakers of =20= > the late 80s -early 90s, along with the "Hong Kong New Wave") > Otto Preminger > Shohei Imamura > Tsai Ming Liang > Chris Marker (I dare!) > Scorcese > Luchino Visconti > Stanley Kwan > Claire Denis > Oscar Micheaux > George Cukor > Chantal Akerman > Nancy Savoca > Fassbinder > Spike Lee > John Sayles > Apichatpong Weerasethakul (let's see, 10 years from now, what's up) > Tarkovsky > Agnes Varda > > It's all so intertextual! That's what makes the ongoing conversation =20= > of cinema so interesting to me. And why the list, really, means =20 > nothing. But I couldn't help it! > > About to watch Pasolini's MAMA ROMA, and Theo Angelopoulos' THE =20 > WEEPING MEADOW; some buyer's on point at the Brooklyn Public Library. = =20 > I also really liked Bertolucci's BEFORE THE REVOLUTION. > > Peace and light to the spirits of Igmar Bergman and Antonioni as they =20= > pass through this world to the next, and much thanks to them for =20 > leaving so much of themselves, and their vision, with us. > > Tisa > > = =A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8= =A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8= =A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=20 > =A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8 > Prose is like a window; fiction is like a door. > But it is not uncommon that he who should come in through the door > jumps in through the window. > > MuXin > translated by Toming Jun Liu > > = =A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8= =A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8= =A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=20 > =A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8 > On Jul 31, 2007, at 5:20 PM, amy king wrote: > >> John Cassavettes, yes! Someone already wrote Akria Kurosawa, yes? >> >> Anything Krystof Kieslowski. >> >> Dare I throw Chris Marker into the mix? And Wim Wenders? >> >> >> Ruth Lepson wrote: >> and cassavettes & who cd forget 'Nashville' >> http://www.amyking.org/blog >> >> --------------------------------- >> Luggage? GPS? Comic books? >> Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search. >> > > Geo. Bowering, DLit A devotee of Veronica Lake ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 22:09:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Skinner Subject: Two birds flown Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I was going to lurk this one out. But then Antonioni had to fly off--on the same day as Bergman! Wow: speechless. Love to hear that conversation. Whatever the topic at St. Peter's Gates, I'm sure there'd be plenty of long, pregnant silences . . . just looking at the clouds. Picking only five directors from a century of cinema feels absurd. But I admit I was tempted to write in Antonioni. If I could only pick one Italian, I'd pick Antonioni. (A hard choice: Pasolini, Fellini, Visconti and others superb too.) Pasolini was one of the greatest neorealists (Mama Roma, Accatone) but got too literary for film as he went on. That said, he's probably in my top ten list of poets. Don't get me wrong: it's all great stuff. But if I had to choose between Pasolini's best films and Antonioni's . . . I feel I owe my eyes to L'Avventura. It's probably the number one film, if I had to choose. (Sight and Sound puts L'Avventura second, behind Citizen Kane. Have to think about that one.) I remember first feeling the pleasure of the medium, the edges of the frame, the texture of celluoid, with L'Avventura. No one makes angst look so good (with the help of Vitti, Mastroianni, Scheider, Nicholson and others). And no director had a more architectural sense for film, than Antonioni. This, and the religious experience, was confirmed with the restored release of The Passenger, last year. You have to see it on the big screen. In the otherwise excellent NY Times obit (for once, an obit written like an obit should be--I guess Lyman had a few years to work it), the final shot of that film is mischaracterized as "meandering": in fact, the camera describes an omega. I'll go out on a limb and say that Zabriskie Point may be one of the best films made about California, probably just behind Chinatown. Let's not forget the great Michel Serrault, also flown yesterday. "C'est la fin de la reflexion," says Isabelle. JS ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 00:31:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: code dialog, comments welcome MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed _NOTES AND DIALOG ON CODE_ (7/31/07) (Sandy Baldwin and Alan Sondheim) NOTES ON CODE (Alan Sondheim) Major modality: Relationship between modeling and codework: mapping within the subtext/substructure of the metric. Visual modeling: Visual as thetic - modality of happenstance (i.e. modeling becomes dependent on the physiology of visual bandwidth). Aural modeling: Visual with similar field, different spatial modality. How is the thetic (is that the correct word?) in relation to ideality? Does political economy depend on visual/aural physiology? Scanning as doubled text: coded software / parameterization of the real tending towards results which are residue (separate the results from the structure). But within the phenomenology of the real, the results and structure are inextricably tangled. Motion capture (mocap) - see scanning. In scanning, the static object is standard; in motion capture, the dynamic object. Think perhaps of the latter in terms of a second-order differential - doubled modeling of changes (1. through mocap; 2. through 'accelerated modeling'). The results: the 'code carapace' or chiten - Barrier/revelation code. (Older work: The relation of consciousness to structured systems: what are the manifestations of those systems?) Code as armor. Seeing and hearing seem 'tawdry,' unable to sustain the abstracted or philosophical weight placed upon them. To see or hear text philosophically churns on transparency; everything else stumbles. We turn to writing because it gets away from us to the extent that it's also reflective of deep abstraction, alien-code (all code is alien). All code is alien because it calls from elsewhere - or rather, doesn't call at all; it's as if someone created it, it's as if it wasn't created, not a bit of it. Which is the fundamental phenomenological status of code: some of it is created, but some of it isn't. DIALOG Sandy Baldwin: Thanks for these notes - always helpful. It would be interesting to present them somehow with the video. I'm trying to think about your question about the relation of the thetic to ideality. Now, the former references taking a position (thesis) and signification (cf Kristeva); the latter references Husserlian phenomenology and the constitutions of objects. Are the second set of distinctions (political economy - visual / aural physiology) parallel to the first two? Anyway, I wonder if you would venture an answer to the question? Alan Sondheim: I'm not sure I understand all the modalities or connotations of the thetic; online we have (among other things): 2. Presented dogmatically; arbitrarily prescribed. and derived: Greek thetikos, from thetos, placed, from tithenai, to put; see dh- in Indo-European roots So I was thinking of the thetic as arbitrary proffering, gesturing; if code might be construed from ideality, the thetic might be construed from code. The visual/aural/sensory modalities seem clearly arbitrary in the larger scheme of things, if such exists; the electrical senses of fish obviously map the world completely differently (not to mention magnetism in birds, bees sensing of solar polarization etc.). So this is the thetic, the shown and it's in relation to political economy, which is dependent on culture and organism. The ideality - and this for me is where a kind of neo-platonism comes into play - is a structure which underlies everything - a structure which _might_ map through propositional logic or Wolfram's cellular automata or etc. The structure is alien to the extent that a rock is in-itself, ding an such. It's possibly here that the uncanny of codework appears (and coding in general, mathematics/mathesis in general) - that code, no matter how written, always seems, in part, to come from somewhere else, to appear, to have appearance, whatever the sensory modality. Sandy: Thanks for the elaboration of the thetic. Some thoughts: As to the visual/aural modalities (you mention fish, for example), I wonder if inter-species animal display such as "stotting" (sp?) or "organs to be seen" and the like, apply here. Here the code of display, in the large sense of code from Eco or elsewhere, implies a semiotics that can't simply be understood in terms of a return to the individual or even the species, that gestures towards a general not-political economy. I'm thinking that we, insofar as we are just such animals in the world, are on display for the other (substitutable in the sense Levinas talks of). Alan: Had to look up stotting! The sp. is right. But I'm not sure that it doesn't imply a 'return to the individual' insofar as the communication is a signal? This isn't the 'mutual orienting of cognitive domains' - it's masquerade or camouflage in a sense? But the display has to be readable by the other, in both cases, stotting or display for the other, and the modalities are always limited; in fact, with stotting, the limitation is absolutely necessary - for a signal to be a signal. Sandy: I take this substitutability I refer to above as the alien you refer to * the alien that I am. The thetic (as arbitary positing and also as a "thing" in the scopic field) is always ideological. I think this is where I'm coming to your point about ideality, and when you mentioned neo-platonic I thought of Barthes' on the photograph as a kind of "emission" (in the sense of Plotinus). Alan: Yes, I think we're in agreement here perhaps. The alien is the source structuration of code; the propositional calculus can't be consumed... Sandy: Agreed. Obviously, I'm thinking, on the one hand, of Bataille or Lingis and their insistence and foregrounding of economies of excess and non-return; but then, thought is made to account for and come back to itself. Now, this dialectical reason is inseparable from philosophy, yet we know there are other philosophies and unreasonable ways of thinking. I could see this as life within and against the human. Alan: Interesting... I agree with you but then there's the 'selfish gene' issue - if the stotting is common and in various species, then it's not leaky at all but highly efficient; certainly it would be evolutionarily (?) determined more than other signals, since it's at the fulcrum of life and death... Sandy: Here's a different but not unrelated question - returning to the alien as "source structuration of code." I wonder about the following: it seems to me the subject relation to the symbolic online, let's say to the ideality of ascii, is like that of the subject of film. There's is something like suture occuring, and so on; at the same time, there's a difference and even a complete reversal. I think this has to do with time, but I'm not sure? Any thoughts here - again, if it's too much, there's no need. Alan: I'm lucky to be online. A HUGE storm is coming, lightning etc. out here. Anyway - the subject online is an actant of course; the suture is similar but different in that the filmic subject is predetermined - and therein lies it's power - I think it relates to a fundamental masochism. The viewer is held in thrall by the film, and/or the actions of the viewer change nothing about the film itself - which continues to unravel at its own pace - but only about the diegesis, which is always in dialog. The subject in relation to the online symbolic, I assume you're referencing jectivity (projecting, introjecting) is in a sense too much in control, as if that control were offered to us elsewhere, outside online being as well. In that sense, time is 'supple' for the online subject - in film, it's not linear, but shuttled, and that dialog is set into motion by the obdurate quality of the film, which just unravels. Of course this obdurate quality relates, I think, to the inert of the real as well. Then when one brings dream, dream-screen, all these other aspects into it, the whole situation becomes muddled? Perhaps hopelessly so? Sandy: Thanks, yes. I think in the suppleness of the online subject: ASCII gives me life, I give ASCII life, but I also ask more of ASCII than it can give, and it gives more than I can ASCII. (In the otherness of it.) Also, interesting that there's no "apparatus theory" of the net, beyond your internet text of course (which does explain all). ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 19:23:16 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabrielle Welford Subject: Re: on our earth, the killdeer & the glowworms & the vanishing bees In-Reply-To: <761073.24980.qm@web43141.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT my daughter says we have short memories--there was a die-off in the 70s too... g No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.412 / Virus Database: 268.18.4/705 - Release Date: 2/27/2007 On Tue, 31 Jul 2007, Eric Dickey wrote: > I was just in Alabama and saw enough lightning bugs to warm my heart and cause my four year old son's eyes to widen as we captured a few of them in jars. > > As for killdeer, I know nothing other than one made an appearance in a recent poem of mine. > > As for the bee death, CCD, colony collapse disease, is a new phenom. We have only recently begun commercial beekeeping at such a rate. So, we don't really have enough data to know one way or the other. I have several friends who study bees; they are not alarmed. We have exchanged some e-mails about it. Here are some highlights of recent news stories. > > rest assured: > http://www.thedalleschronicle.com/news/2007/05/news05-01-07-01.shtml > Bee deaths: big buzz over small concern > > contributing to bee deaths: > http://www.heraldextra.com/content/view/225743/ > Bees dying of mysterious infection > probably due to genetically modified crops > http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory?id=2867049 > > and > > http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070619/NEWS/706190314/-1/rss01 > A 13-year-old's award-winning essay suggests the die-off comes from feeding them too much corn syrup and trucking them long distances to pollinate crops > > http://www.oregonlive.com/metro/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/news/117505052781130.xml&coll=7 > Researchers puzzled at the sudden drop of honeybees > > But with the discovery of a 100-million year old bee, I seriously doubt that humans could have a lasting impact on the bee: > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/12/061209083342.htm > > However, if it meant giving up cell phones, which would go first, the phone or the bee? > http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/20070315215055data_trunc_sys.shtml > Cell Phones To Blame For Deserted Bee Colonies? > > re: climate change, be concerned: > http://www.loc.gov/today/cyberlc/feature_wdesc.php?rec=4086 > Honey Bees, Satellites and Climate Change > nectar and pollen availability has shifted one month > > Of more concern, I read that global warming will bring a decline in human males. > > A good place to end this message. > > Have a nice day! > > Eric > > Alan Sondheim wrote: > I'm from Kingston (Wilkes-Barre area) and we've noticed the same thing on > and off - but then they return. In our area the rabbits, skunks, and > possums have disappeared; herons have increased, as have certain kinds of > spiders. I think at least to some extent this might have to do with global > warming, but I'm not certain. - Alan > > > On Tue, 31 Jul 2007, W.B. Keckler wrote: > > > This is odd, but this posting made me think yet again of something > > troubling. I knew about the bees dying off in such numbers...last I checked there were > > several theories, none of them proven...(anyone know if that's been > > convincingly explained yet? did i miss sequelae?) and have empirically witnessed > > this scarcity...but I've been spooked because we've had no lightning bugs all > > summer...I am East Coast....Pennsylvania...they're usually lighting the > > neighborhood up every two seconds...anybody hear anything about this? I'm near a > > river and a stadium (a few miles upriver) and I know they spray the river area > > for mosquitos and such, but in past years no lightning bug (or glowworms as > > some call 'em) effect was seen...maybe it's just in this area...are your lawns > > lighting up? > > > > > > > > ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at > > http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour > > > > > > > ======================================================================= > Work on YouTube, blog at http://nikuko.blogspot.com . Tel 718-813-3285. > Webpage directory http://www.asondheim.org . Email: sondheim@panix.com. > http://clc.as.wvu.edu:8080/clc/Members/sondheim for theory; also check > WVU Zwiki, Google for recent. Write for info on books, cds, performance, > dvds, etc. ============================================================= > > > > --------------------------------- > Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 23:08:34 -0700 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Subject: Feature on verse daily MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit One of Kaya Oakes poems was featured on Verse Daily today. If you go to the site and the poem's no longer posted, click on "Archives" at the bottom and you'll see a link for July 31. http://www.versedaily.com/ Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 02:11:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Boog City's Fourth Annual Small, Small Press Fair Comments: To: "UB Poetics discussion group "@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Please forward --------------------- =20 Welcome to Boog City festival presents =20 Boog City=B9s Fourth Annual Small, Small Press Fair (with arts and crafts, too) =20 Sat. Aug. 4 11:00 a.m.-5:00 p.m. FREE =20 Cakeshop 152 Ludlow St. NYC =20 Featuring Exhibitors: =20 Jim Avignon Bizarr Verlag Circumference Cy Gist Press Elsewhere Fractious Press Owen Hutchinson Sakura Maku New York Tyrant Pequod [SIC] Sona Books Leslie Stein United Artists Worn Fashion Journal =20 with 15 on the 15=B9s=8B a 15-minute musical performance at the fair each hour on the 15=B9s: =20 11:15 a.m.-Bob Kerr 12:15 p.m.-Bob Kerr 1:15 p.m.-Bob Kerr =20 2:15 p.m.-Sean T. Hanratty 3:15 p.m.-Sean T. Hanratty 4:15 p.m.-Sean T. Hanratty =20 =20 and afterward, stay for: 5:00 p.m.=20 Political poets and The Fugs, Village Fugs live $5 =20 For the detailed Welcome to Boog City poetry and music festival program: http://welcometoboogcity.com/boogpdfs/wbcprogram2007.pdf =20 Directions: F/V to 2nd Ave. Venue is bet. Stanton and Rivington sts. =20 **Exhibitor and Musician Bios: *Jim Avignon http://www.jimavignon.com =20 Jim Avignon is a Berlin- and Brooklyn-based artist, painter, and musician. =20 =20 *Bizarr Verlag Co-owner Sissa Marquardt sissa@bizarrverlag.com http://www.bizarrverlag.com =20 We publish a book-calendar each year, lots of artists from Berlin, Barcelona, and New York are involved. We will have the 2008 edition and som= e nice postcards available. =20 =20 *Circumference Editors Jennifer Kronovet and Stefania Heim editors@circumferencemag.com http://www.circumferencemag.com =20 Circumference is devoted to presenting translations of new work being written around the globe, new visions of classical poems, and translations of foreign language poets of the past who have fallen under the radar of American readers. We are especially excited to show translation as the vibrant, necessary interaction that it is. A biannual publication, Circumference prints all poems in the original language side-by-side with their English translations. =20 =20 *Cy Gist Press Editor Mark Lamoureux mark_lamoureux@yahoo.com http://www.cygistpress.com =20 Mark Lamoureux founded Cy Gist Press in 2005. The press focuses on, but is not limited to, ekphrastic poetry. The press has published two anthologies and chapbooks by Scott Glassman, Guillermo Parra, Sandra Simonds, Ben Mazer= , and Carrie Hunter. =20 =20 *Elsewhere Gary Sullivan gpsullivan@hotmail.com http://www.garysullivan.blogspot.com =20 Gary Sullivan has published three issues of his comic book Elsewhere since 2005. He may bring along other books as well. =20 =20 *Fractious Press Collective member Veronica Liu fractiouspress@gmail.com http://www.fractiouspress.com =20 Fractious Press publishes or is about to publish new and emerging artists and writers of fiction, poetry, comics, and zines. Books on tape are on the horizon: get ready. FP believes that to be sustained as an artist requires = a community of like-minded folk, fellow-travelers who may not have the exact same destination but who wish to travel enough of the same route that they allow a combined dynamism to move their faction closer to a place of creative freedom. In other words, a well-timed, well-placed collaboration can lead to an ideological metropolis within the macrocosm of corporate publishing, and FP hopes to foster some of that in our unruly sort of way. =20 *Sean T. Hanratty http://www.myspace.com/seanthanratty Sean T. Hanratty is straight outta Brooklyn and on his way into your shower= , by way of you singing his memorably melodic and incredibly enchanting songs in the shower, of course. =20 *Owen Hutchinson owenhutchinson@gmail.com =20 Handmade collection of poems and compositions on paper and 7-inch vinyl. =20 =20 *Robert Kerr Robert Kerr is a playwright and songwriter living in Brooklyn. He wrote the book and lyrics for the short musical The Sticky-Fingered Fianc=E9e, and the songs for his plays Kingdom Gone and Meet Uncle Casper, as well as his Brothers Grimm adaptations Bearskin and The Juniper Tree. He was a founding member of the Minneapolis band Alien Detector. *Sakura Maku sakuramaku@hotmail.com =20 Sakura Maku likes to draw comics. Her influences include black and white by Taiyo Matsumoto, and Barfoot Gen by Keiji Nakazawa. =20 =20 *New York Tyrant Editors Jody Brown and Giancarlo DiTrapano ditrapano@nytyrant.com http://www.nytyrant.com =20 The New York Tyrant is a fledgling print journal focusing on short fiction. =20 =20 *Pequod Matthew Corey pequodpressinc@gmail.com =20 Pequod was founded as a small magazine, distributed mostly among friends on the West Coast, in 1971. After changing locales (and coasts), it appeared i= n a slightly more expanded form, publishing poets who favored the long poem and essay at a time when popular magazines were reducing the margin space for writers.=20 =20 It also acted as a springboard for work in translation and published new an= d unheard of writers. At the time Paul Auster, Ai, and other luminaries had their work first seen in Pequod. =20 The last issue features the gamut=8Bfrom a medieval Hebrew poet, to new translations of Palestine=B9s last laureate, to the best crime writing around= , and an elegant essay on the late style of composers. =20 We focus on doing the most out of what little elbow room there is to work with and our staff=8Bof four=8Bis purely voluntary. =20 =20 *[SIC] Co-editors Jake Albert, James Dawson, and Veronica Liu info@sicjournal.com http://www.sicjournal.com =20 [sic]=20 =20 =3D (adv.) so, thus, intentionally so written =20 =3D (v.) to incite or urge to an attack or pursuit =20 =3D (n.) a new literary journal Our second issue will be available at the end of August. It will feature Diane Williams, Linh Dinh, John Cotrona, Kim Chinquee, Garth Risk Hallberg, Salar Abdoh, and more. =20 =20 *Sona Books Editor Jill Magi jillmagi@earthlink.net http://www.sonaweb.net =20 Sona Books / Sonaweb / Sona Sounds is a community-based micro-press that brings poetry, fiction, cross-genre, performance/sound-poetry, and visual art to the public by publishing experimental, project-driven, collaborative= , risky, and quiet works. Its mission is to stay small. In staying small, Son= a Books=8Blike other community-based micro-presses and in the tradition of the poet's chapbook=8Bcan bring literature to a wider audience through affirming the importance of real working relationships between editor, author/artist, and audience. Sona Books is a member of the Council of Literary Magazines and Presses. =20 =20 *Leslie Stein Lams1406@aol.com http://www.myspace.com/lesliescomicsandcrafts =20 Leslie Stein uses collage techniques and line drawing to create her semi-autobiographical comics. Her first comic "Yeah, It Is!" won her a Xeri= c Grant and a Harvey Kurtzman award nomination. Her new series, "Eye of the Majestic Creature," is self-published on newsprint and is inspired by the underground comics of the 1960s. She also sells handmade pins and bags. =20 =20 *United Artists Editor Lewis Warsh lwarsh@mindspring.com http://www.unitedartistsbooks.com =20 United Artists Books (formerly Angel Hair Books) was founded in 1967. It is one of the oldest independent publishing companies in the United States tha= t focuses primarily on publishing books of poetry. =20 During the last 40 years we have published numerous books, many of which ar= e no longer in print. Among our authors are Robert Creeley, James Schuyler, Alice Notley, David Rosenberg, Ron Padgett, Charlotte Carter, Lorenzo Thomas, Tom Clark, Ted Berrigan, Bernadette Mayer, Bill Berkson, Hannah Weiner, Anne Waldman, John Wieners, and Clark Coolidge. =20 Some of the artists who have contributed covers to United Artists/Angel Hai= r books are Philip Guston, Joe Brainard, Donna Dennis, Alex Katz, James Rosenquist, George Schneeman, Amy Trachtenberg, Louise Hamlin, Jim Dine, Martha Diamond, Emilie Clark, Pamela Lawton, Rosemary Mayer, Sophia Warsh, and Anne Tardos. =20 The press has received numerous grants and awards from the National Endowment for the Arts, the New York State Council on the Arts, the Massachusetts Foundation for the Arts, and the Coordinating Council of Literary Magazines. It has been our primary goal to publish poets whose works are well known and well-respected within the poetry community but unknown to a wider audience. =20 In an article in The Baltimore Sun a few years back, Andrei Codrescu described United Artists as a small press "on the cutting edge of American poetry for the last twenty years. The series of books by United Artists is indispensable for any library collection or anyone interested in the future of poetry." =20 =20 *Worn Fashion Journal Editor Serah-Marie McMahon serahmarie@wornjournal.com http://www.wornjournal.com =20 Worn is a alternative take on a fashion magazine: dealing with the history, concepts, and practical considerations of clothing. Produced twice a year i= n Montreal, Quebec, Canada. =20 -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://welcometoboogcity.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 23:49:02 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jennifer Karmin Subject: poetry foundation vs. chicago police MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit hi poetics friends....for those who emailed and wanted to know more about the poetry foundation's big public party (a variety of free books, journals, zines, stickers, music, booze, people, fun) being busted by the chicago police, i've posted the sun times article below. basically, it's another case of the time resistant daley machine showing people its muscles. a strange result: the poetry foundation got hassled, yet gained a tiny bit of d.i.y. poet credibility. onwards, jennifer karmin *************************************************** Poetry slam: Police raid Bridgeport 'Printer's Ball' PUBLIC SAFETY Cops in combat gear make 1,000 leave party July 25, 2007 BY FRAN SPIELMAN City Hall Reporter Nobody turned into a pumpkin at Chicago's third annual "Printer's Ball," culminating a monthlong festival celebrating the printed word. They didn't get a chance. The party Friday night ended up being shut down by the police long before midnight in a dispute over whether the Bridgeport gallery hosting it had been inspected, had the proper city licenses and could safely accommodate a large gathering. Oskar Friedl, director of the Zhou B Art Center, 1029 W. 35th St., said "at least 30" police officers came to his gallery "in full-fledged combat gear" shortly after 10:30 p.m. and made more than 1,000 people leave. "It felt like the Gestapo," Friedl said. "I'm not even blaming the city for what they're doing, but the way they did it was very upsetting. "If you want to be known as a sophisticated city, you have to work on a sophisticated level. And it's not just a few sculptures in Millennium Park that make a city sophisticated. It's what happens on the community level." Rosa Escareno, a spokeswoman for the city's Department of Business Affairs and Licnesing, said City Hall was responding to an anonymous complaint about events being held every third Friday with large crowds lined up outside. Police and city inspectors found hundreds of people on second and third floors, which Escareno said are "not licensed for any type of activity." There were live music and disc jockeys on the upper floors, where liquor was being served, and candles were lit throughout the building near "very flammable," oil-based paintings, Escareno said. "There was a lot of activity -- all of which requires licenses and inspections, but the two floors above were unlicensed and uninspected," she said." She said several citations were issued. "There was only one entrance and exit and no signs indicating where the exits were," she said. "Stairs leading up and down were less than three feet [wide], only allowing people to go up or come down. It was extremely unsafe." Anne Halsey, spokeswoman for the Poetry Foundation, the organizer of the Printer's Ball, said the police were "extremely pleasant and courteous." http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/482360,CST-NWS-poetry25.article ____________________________________________________________________________________ Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool. http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 09:06:01 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) In-Reply-To: <20070731.124155.504.17.skyplums@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit yeap, ridiculous -- strange that you 'muricans seem to swoon exclusively over eurappian directors -- if I think back on my eurappian youth, & the movies that counted then (for me & my buddies, but also for a number of those european directors mentioned as among the 5 best) I would have to put 1/2 dozen american directors in there immediately: Ford, Wells, Hawks, Walsh, Hitchkock (the Us version), Peckingpaw to begin with & then all the great US comedy directors such as Wilder and all those whose names don't jump off my tongue right now... good lord! I want at least fifty movie makers in there from Eisenstein & Abel Gance to Woody Allen & Stan Brakhage & beyond! Pierre On Jul 31, 2007, at 6:36 PM, steve d. dalachinsky wrote: > this argument is rediculous fellini bergman pasolini godddard > etc all > masters and so many more why do this silly top ten > > billy wilder fritz lang > > On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 17:25:41 -0400 Mark Weiss > writes: >> Myself, I'd keep Fellini for 8 1/2 and Satyricon, if I didn't need to >> >> make room for Visconti. Godard and Kurosawa are givens. And if >> limited to five (assuming we're talking about the post-Renoir >> generations) I'd add Almodovar and Wenders. Never had much interest >> >> in Bergman, tho his later films redeem the earlier ones for me. >> >> Mark >> >> >> At 04:15 PM 7/30/2007, you wrote: >>> Yes, on reading the list of "five" Pasolini was who I thought >> about. And >>> Fellini was who I questioned. . . in the long haul. >>> >>> >>>> From: Anny Ballardini >>>> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >> >>>> Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:15:50 +0200 >>>> To: >>>> Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) >>>> >>>> don't really know if fellini was that high (or ray) mais a >> chacun son >>>> gout, I'd rather have pasolini there_ >>>> >>>> On 7/30/07, Aryanil Mukherjee wrote: >>>>> thanks for the information. a stupendous loss for the world of >> cinema. >>>>> Of the magic 5 - fellini-ray-godard-kurosawa-bergman, now only >> Godard >>>>> remains. >>>>> >>>>> aryanil >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: UB Poetics discussion group >> [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On >>>>> Behalf Of Halvard Johnson >>>>> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 9:09 AM >>>>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>>>> Subject: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) >>>>> >>>>> Hal >>>>> >>>>> "Art is not a mirror held up to reality, >>>>> but a hammer with which to shape it." >>>>> --Bertolt Brecht >>>>> >>>>> Halvard Johnson >>>>> ================ >>>>> halvard@earthlink.net >>>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html >>>>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>>>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >>>>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >>>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html >>>>> >> >> ___________________________________________________________ The poet: always in partibus infidelium -- Paul Celan ___________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris 244 Elm Street Albany NY 12202 h: 518 426 0433 c: 518 225 7123 o: 518 442 40 71 Euro cell: (011 33) 6 75 43 57 10 email: joris@albany.edu http://pierrejoris.com Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com ____________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 03:57:34 -0400 Reply-To: dbuuck@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Buuck Subject: looking for Stacy Szymaszek Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit email anyone? b/c fine, thanks David Buuck ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 06:57:10 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eric Elshtain Subject: directors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Ford Eric Elshtain Editor Beard of Bees Press http://www.beardofbees.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 06:04:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kimberly jaye Subject: Re: Venezuela, In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Chavez just shut down the main media outlet of the opposition. George Bowering wrote: On Jul 30, 2007, at 8:11 AM, Mary Kasimor wrote: > CA,I have liked most of what I have heard about Chavez, also.However, > I'm just wondering if anyone can tell me more about claims that Chavez > is closing off political dissent. I expect that neither Fidel nor his allies are ideal critters. But Cuba and Venezuela are certainly spearheading the current leftward turn of South America. I don't know, for example, how much the typical USA newspaper or television news will cover what is happening in Uruguay or Ecuador, but Chavez is certainly one of the hopeful signs that Latin American countries can start to escape control by US military and industry. > George Cletis Bowering Slow to anger. Well, slow about everything. --------------------------------- Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 09:58:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "J. Michael Mollohan" Subject: Re: directors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All this talk of great filmmakers and yet no one has mention Orson Wells? Or did I miss that? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Elshtain" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 7:57 AM Subject: directors > John Ford > > > Eric Elshtain > Editor > Beard of Bees Press > http://www.beardofbees.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 10:04:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: Two birds flown In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed I agree about L'Avventura. But I don't understand these lists and ratings; they remind me of Sartre's hit parade. Films open different and complex worlds and picking directors cuts through that complexity, reduces it to a list which has nothing to do with them, their meanings to us, the way we live through them, the diegesis of our lives. I'm surprised that listing was a close to initial reaction. Antonioni had a great affect on my own video- and filmmaking, just as, in another world, Derrida or Lyotard had. But I think of sitting in theaters, walking out with amazing gifts I never expected, or reading texts that illuminated everything for me, that arced from horizon to horizon, that opened portals to thought and then quietly allowed the portals themselves to vanish - thinking of these, of them, of so many other deaths, our own among them, as if we are also in the very way of passing. - Alan ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 07:05:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adam Fieled Subject: PFS Presents, Brooklyn, Friday!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The third installment of PFS PRESENTS will take place this Friday, 8/03, at the Fall Cafe, 307 Smith Street, Carroll Gardens, Brooklyn, at 7 pm. Readers: Dan Hoy, Rosanna Lee, Adam Fieled. Check out new work from Dan and Rosanna on PFS Post: http://www.artrecess.blogspot.com Dan Hoy lives in Brooklyn and is an editor for SOFT TARGETS. He is the author of the poetry chapbook "Outtakes", published in Spring 2007 by Lame House Press, and his work has recently appeared in Absent Magazine, Coconut, H_NGM_N, Octopus, and elsewhere. Rosanna Lee is 26 years old, white, female, 133 lbs, 5 feet 4 inches, lives in Brooklyn pays $766.00 for rent, works as a special ed teacher and waitress, 4th grade, American food, writes without shame. Chapbooks for sale. Adam Fieled is simply a great big weirdo. --------------------------------- Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 10:06:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: The World in Two Jokes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed The World in Two Jokes How many Passenger Pigeons does it take to change a light bulb? None. How many Tibetan Buddhists does it take to change a light bulb? None. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 07:16:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thank you for including the wonderful Thai director of Syndromes & A Century. (Is that the correct name of his recent movie? I think so. I saw it not long ago at the IFC movie house in NYC. ) It will be interesting indeed to see where his films go from here. Thanks, Tom Savage George Bowering wrote: What about One Shot Bodine? gb On Jul 31, 2007, at 5:07 PM, Tisa Bryant wrote: > > My "Indelible Imagemakers" list, in no order, hella long, and really, > it could change tomorrow, and well it should; there are at least 20 > filmmakers for my every mood. As for the top whatever, and voting, > etc? Not interested. I'll leave that to some academy. These folks' > works haunt, mark, stay with me, and I keep returning, seeking them > out for more: > > Antonioni > Bergman > Jean-Pierre Melville > Alain Resnais > Renoir > Fellini > Almodovar > Kubrick > Godard > Kurosawa > Cassavetes > Sembene Ousmane (died last month; was also a novelist) > Bela Tarr > Coppola > Ozu > Jacques Rivette > Billy Wilder > Charles Burnett (and not just for KILLER OF SHEEP) > Satyajit Ray > Flora Gomes (and all the overlooked "African New Wave" filmmakers of > the late 80s -early 90s, along with the "Hong Kong New Wave") > Otto Preminger > Shohei Imamura > Tsai Ming Liang > Chris Marker (I dare!) > Scorcese > Luchino Visconti > Stanley Kwan > Claire Denis > Oscar Micheaux > George Cukor > Chantal Akerman > Nancy Savoca > Fassbinder > Spike Lee > John Sayles > Apichatpong Weerasethakul (let's see, 10 years from now, what's up) > Tarkovsky > Agnes Varda > > It's all so intertextual! That's what makes the ongoing conversation > of cinema so interesting to me. And why the list, really, means > nothing. But I couldn't help it! > > About to watch Pasolini's MAMA ROMA, and Theo Angelopoulos' THE > WEEPING MEADOW; some buyer's on point at the Brooklyn Public Library. > I also really liked Bertolucci's BEFORE THE REVOLUTION. > > Peace and light to the spirits of Igmar Bergman and Antonioni as they > pass through this world to the next, and much thanks to them for > leaving so much of themselves, and their vision, with us. > > Tisa > > ¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨ > ¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨ > Prose is like a window; fiction is like a door. > But it is not uncommon that he who should come in through the door > jumps in through the window. > > MuXin > translated by Toming Jun Liu > > ¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨ > ¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨ > On Jul 31, 2007, at 5:20 PM, amy king wrote: > >> John Cassavettes, yes! Someone already wrote Akria Kurosawa, yes? >> >> Anything Krystof Kieslowski. >> >> Dare I throw Chris Marker into the mix? And Wim Wenders? >> >> >> Ruth Lepson wrote: >> and cassavettes & who cd forget 'Nashville' >> http://www.amyking.org/blog >> >> --------------------------------- >> Luggage? GPS? Comic books? >> Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search. >> > > Geo. Bowering, DLit A devotee of Veronica Lake --------------------------------- Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 14:20:43 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Raymond Bianchi Subject: Re: poetry foundation vs. chicago police Comments: cc: Jennifer Karmin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I was also there and it is popular to slam Mayor Daley but the rules of safety are the rules. The venue had two tiny staircases for hundreds of people this was dangerous. There were kids all over the place and alcohol was being served the venue was not appropriate for the type of gathering. When I am not being a poet I work as an Events Director and I would not have hosted this many people in a space without getting the right permits. The space is great but not for 1000 people most of whom were drinking. If there had been a fire these people would have died. That has nothing to do with "gestapo tactics" it has to do with event planning and insurance and safety. -------------- Original message -------------- From: Jennifer Karmin > hi poetics friends....for those who emailed and wanted > to know more about the poetry foundation's big public > party (a variety of free books, journals, zines, > stickers, music, booze, people, fun) being busted by > the chicago police, i've posted the sun times article > below. > > basically, it's another case of the time resistant > daley machine showing people its muscles. a strange > result: the poetry foundation got hassled, yet gained > a tiny bit of d.i.y. poet credibility. > > onwards, > jennifer karmin > > *************************************************** > Poetry slam: Police raid Bridgeport 'Printer's Ball' > PUBLIC SAFETY > Cops in combat gear make 1,000 leave party > > July 25, 2007 > BY FRAN SPIELMAN > City Hall Reporter > > Nobody turned into a pumpkin at Chicago's third annual > "Printer's Ball," culminating a monthlong festival > celebrating the printed word. They didn't get a > chance. The party Friday night ended up being shut > down by the police long before midnight in a dispute > over whether the Bridgeport gallery hosting it had > been inspected, had the proper city licenses and could > safely accommodate a large gathering. > > Oskar Friedl, director of the Zhou B Art Center, 1029 > W. 35th St., said "at least 30" police officers came > to his gallery "in full-fledged combat gear" shortly > after 10:30 p.m. and made more than 1,000 people > leave. > > "It felt like the Gestapo," Friedl said. "I'm not even > blaming the city for what they're doing, but the way > they did it was very upsetting. > > "If you want to be known as a sophisticated city, you > have to work on a sophisticated level. And it's not > just a few sculptures in Millennium Park that make a > city sophisticated. It's what happens on the community > level." > > Rosa Escareno, a spokeswoman for the city's Department > of Business Affairs and Licnesing, said City Hall was > responding to an anonymous complaint about events > being held every third Friday with large crowds lined > up outside. > > Police and city inspectors found hundreds of people on > second and third floors, which Escareno said are "not > licensed for any type of activity." There were live > music and disc jockeys on the upper floors, where > liquor was being served, and candles were lit > throughout the building near "very flammable," > oil-based paintings, Escareno said. > > "There was a lot of activity -- all of which requires > licenses and inspections, but the two floors above > were unlicensed and uninspected," she said." > > She said several citations were issued. > > "There was only one entrance and exit and no signs > indicating where the exits were," she said. "Stairs > leading up and down were less than three feet [wide], > only allowing people to go up or come down. It was > extremely unsafe." > > Anne Halsey, spokeswoman for the Poetry Foundation, > the organizer of the Printer's Ball, said the police > were "extremely pleasant and courteous." > > http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/482360,CST-NWS-poetry25.article > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________ > ____ > Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder > tool. > http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 09:24:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: film makers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A person who had a great influence on esp Godard as well as Truffaut and wo= rked a number of times with Samuel Beckett is Buster Keaton, one of the mos= t extraordinary of film makers, and one with a strange and life and career,= moving from comedy to tragedy to--Beckett! Since almost all his films' "k= nown copies" were destroyed in a fire, for some time his work was "invisibl= e" except to memories of those who had seen them and via old stills. It wa= s discovered, however, that his ouevre had been lovingly preserved by none= other than the Stalin regime. Stalin, the enemy of capitalism loved Ameri= can films--and every film that came into Soviet Union to play for him as we= ll as ones allowed to be shown publicly, was carefully made copies of. And= so it was that a lot of the "lost Classic American Cinema" survived in the= world of the Gulags. (Another great fan and preserver of many Amer= ican films was Hitler, who, for those noting George W. Bush's cheeseburger = pizza "you are what you eat" diet, it should be reminded that Hitler was a = vegetarian and drank cocoa rather than coffee.) Three directors who= had a huge effect in the Third World of the immediate post colonial period= are Ousmane Sembene, Sergio Leone and Pontecorvo (Battle of Algiers). Leo= ne was a Marxist and his "Dollars Trilogy" (A Fistful of Dollars, For a Few= Dollars More, The Good, the Bad and the Ugly) had a huge impact stylistica= lly and in terms of the portrayal of a popular "revolutionary hero". Clint= East wood became a huge international star actually before he was anything= more than a tv actor in the USA--especially in Third World counries. (You= can see the huge impact of the Spaghetti Western hero/anti-hero in the Jam= aican film The Harder they Come, in which Jimmy Cliff identifies with these= characters and their actions. There was also a Jamaican DJ Toaster (rappe= r) named Clint Eastwood.) Pontecorvo's Battle of Algiers had an= immense effect through out the world--and on the rise of independent Cinem= a in areas combating colonialism, imperialism, suppressions of ethnic iden= tities. Cinema Novo in Brazil, for example and the new cinema in Quebec us= ing a lot of documentary as in the work of Jean-Louis Breault (i have to ch= eck the name spelling on him been a long time) and West and North Africa. = A French director with origins in American film noir much strong= er than the other French New Wave (he even changed spelling of his last nam= e to be "more American") is Jean-Pierre Melville, a very great director not= well enough known in the USA. A lot of the most interesting a= nd films I have seen in recent years have come from South Korea, in visual = terms and use of sound/silence as well as some of the most interesting form= s of "narrative" and "subject matter". Some of the best independent cinema= in the world right now is being made in Thailand, Malayasia and by Palesti= nians. These are films which are as unusual formally as in terms of "conten= t". These are just feature films --if one went into the document= ary, animation, video, "art films" underground cinema, experimental cinema.= cult cinema classics, or even one genre alone--Film Noir say, or Neo-Reali= sm, the "Women's Film", the Juvenile Delinquent Genre, the Women in Prison = genre, the Sci-Fi etc etc--of any one or of all countries--War Films, films= of Resistance, classics of montage, revolutionaries n the fields of sound = or lighting, special effects, of improvisation, of control (Bresson for exa= mple), of Propaganda, of the musicals, Westerns (and Easterns), Samurai, Bo= llywood, etc etc etc--any one area would keep one busy for a long time. = The archeology of the cinema--its Anarkeyology--is never ending a= nd added to continually from the arrival of the new and the discovery and r= ediscovery of the past. And the latter becomes part of the production of th= e new--which in turn becomes a recent past influencing the very next new--i= n yet another form of "New Wave"--you used to have to travel to the Cinemat= heque in Paris to learn things which now you can find at the tap of the key= board--which greatly helps in the proliferation of awarenesses and availabi= lities of film languages, techniques, examples--(of course you don't get to= meet all the people who hang at the Cinematheque--) And now it= is August--the anniversary of the "Atomic Age"--a cinema that has spawned = everything from Godzilla to the latest propaganda productions of the Minist= ry of Fear (title also of an American WW2 film directed by Fritz Lang which= Brecht worked on) in the War on Terror and Nuclear Threats, Weapons of Mas= s Destruction . . . Thank you to Anny for noting Pasolini and A= my for naming Kieslowski. TCM last month had a tribute to Ida Lupino, a fav= orite of mine--a very rare figure in cinema history as in the forties she b= ecame a star actress and in the Fifties a director, producer and screen wri= ter also. She made some very good films noir--The Hitch hiker and The Biga= mist for example. Agnes Varda and Catherine Breillat named before are two d= irectors whose work I think about a lot. _________________________________________________________________ Local listings, incredible imagery, and driving directions - all in one pla= ce! Find it! http://maps.live.com/?wip=3D69&FORM=3DMGAC01= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 10:54:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Re: poetry foundation vs. chicago police Comments: To: "UB Poetics discussion group "@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU In-Reply-To: <471217.98379.qm@web31014.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit As a copy editor, its nice to see that the home of the green mill has a copy desk at the sun-times that knows how to write a headline. On 8/1/07 2:49 AM, "Jennifer Karmin" wrote: > hi poetics friends....for those who emailed and wanted > to know more about the poetry foundation's big public > party (a variety of free books, journals, zines, > stickers, music, booze, people, fun) being busted by > the chicago police, i've posted the sun times article > below. > > basically, it's another case of the time resistant > daley machine showing people its muscles. a strange > result: the poetry foundation got hassled, yet gained > a tiny bit of d.i.y. poet credibility. > > onwards, > jennifer karmin > > *************************************************** > Poetry slam: Police raid Bridgeport 'Printer's Ball' > PUBLIC SAFETY > Cops in combat gear make 1,000 leave party > > July 25, 2007 > BY FRAN SPIELMAN > City Hall Reporter > > Nobody turned into a pumpkin at Chicago's third annual > "Printer's Ball," culminating a monthlong festival > celebrating the printed word. They didn't get a > chance. The party Friday night ended up being shut > down by the police long before midnight in a dispute > over whether the Bridgeport gallery hosting it had > been inspected, had the proper city licenses and could > safely accommodate a large gathering. > > Oskar Friedl, director of the Zhou B Art Center, 1029 > W. 35th St., said "at least 30" police officers came > to his gallery "in full-fledged combat gear" shortly > after 10:30 p.m. and made more than 1,000 people > leave. > > "It felt like the Gestapo," Friedl said. "I'm not even > blaming the city for what they're doing, but the way > they did it was very upsetting. > > "If you want to be known as a sophisticated city, you > have to work on a sophisticated level. And it's not > just a few sculptures in Millennium Park that make a > city sophisticated. It's what happens on the community > level." > > Rosa Escareno, a spokeswoman for the city's Department > of Business Affairs and Licnesing, said City Hall was > responding to an anonymous complaint about events > being held every third Friday with large crowds lined > up outside. > > Police and city inspectors found hundreds of people on > second and third floors, which Escareno said are "not > licensed for any type of activity." There were live > music and disc jockeys on the upper floors, where > liquor was being served, and candles were lit > throughout the building near "very flammable," > oil-based paintings, Escareno said. > > "There was a lot of activity -- all of which requires > licenses and inspections, but the two floors above > were unlicensed and uninspected," she said." > > She said several citations were issued. > > "There was only one entrance and exit and no signs > indicating where the exits were," she said. "Stairs > leading up and down were less than three feet [wide], > only allowing people to go up or come down. It was > extremely unsafe." > > Anne Halsey, spokeswoman for the Poetry Foundation, > the organizer of the Printer's Ball, said the police > were "extremely pleasant and courteous." > > http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/482360,CST-NWS-poetry25.article > > > > ______________________________________________________________________________ > ______ > Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car > Finder tool. > http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/ -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://welcometoboogcity.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 10:56:56 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Recent entries on Joe Brainard's Pyjamas?mull future biological uses of bioluminescence,?potentialities in matrix poems...scanner art is featured as always and?a shark stares you down...it's just a?regular day at Joe Brainard's P.J.'s...p.s. there's a "special" mint under your pillow if you dare....oh, and John Donne's "Death Be Not Proud" is undergoing revision, please help us beautify this Elizabethan facade...Ihop to http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/? And thanks for the info on fireflies from listervers...seems i'm in a cyclical slump area or something, but happy to hear they thrive many elsewheres! ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 11:07:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, and that list could begin with King Vidor and perhaps continue along with Buster Keaton... Gerald > yeap, ridiculous -- strange that you 'muricans seem to swoon exclusively > over eurappian directors -- if I think back on my eurappian youth, & the > movies that counted then (for me & my buddies, but also for a number of > those european directors mentioned as among the 5 best) I would have to > put 1/2 dozen american directors in there immediately: Ford, Wells, > Hawks, Walsh, Hitchkock (the Us version), Peckingpaw to begin with & then > all the great US comedy directors such as Wilder and all those whose > names don't jump off my tongue right now... good lord! I want at least > fifty movie makers in there from Eisenstein & Abel Gance to Woody Allen & > Stan Brakhage & beyond! > > Pierre > > On Jul 31, 2007, at 6:36 PM, steve d. dalachinsky wrote: > >> this argument is rediculous fellini bergman pasolini godddard etc >> all >> masters and so many more why do this silly top ten >> >> billy wilder fritz lang >> >> On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 17:25:41 -0400 Mark Weiss >> writes: >>> Myself, I'd keep Fellini for 8 1/2 and Satyricon, if I didn't need to >>> >>> make room for Visconti. Godard and Kurosawa are givens. And if >>> limited to five (assuming we're talking about the post-Renoir >>> generations) I'd add Almodovar and Wenders. Never had much interest >>> >>> in Bergman, tho his later films redeem the earlier ones for me. >>> >>> Mark >>> >>> >>> At 04:15 PM 7/30/2007, you wrote: >>>> Yes, on reading the list of "five" Pasolini was who I thought >>> about. And >>>> Fellini was who I questioned. . . in the long haul. >>>> >>>> >>>>> From: Anny Ballardini >>>>> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >>> >>>>> Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:15:50 +0200 >>>>> To: >>>>> Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) >>>>> >>>>> don't really know if fellini was that high (or ray) mais a >>> chacun son >>>>> gout, I'd rather have pasolini there_ >>>>> >>>>> On 7/30/07, Aryanil Mukherjee wrote: >>>>>> thanks for the information. a stupendous loss for the world of >>> cinema. >>>>>> Of the magic 5 - fellini-ray-godard-kurosawa-bergman, now only >>> Godard >>>>>> remains. >>>>>> >>>>>> aryanil >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: UB Poetics discussion group >>> [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On >>>>>> Behalf Of Halvard Johnson >>>>>> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 9:09 AM >>>>>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>>>>> Subject: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) >>>>>> >>>>>> Hal >>>>>> >>>>>> "Art is not a mirror held up to reality, >>>>>> but a hammer with which to shape it." >>>>>> --Bertolt Brecht >>>>>> >>>>>> Halvard Johnson >>>>>> ================ >>>>>> halvard@earthlink.net >>>>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html >>>>>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>>>>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >>>>>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >>>>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html >>>>>> >>> >>> > > ___________________________________________________________ > > The poet: always in partibus infidelium -- Paul Celan > ___________________________________________________________ > Pierre Joris > 244 Elm Street > Albany NY 12202 > h: 518 426 0433 > c: 518 225 7123 > o: 518 442 40 71 > Euro cell: (011 33) 6 75 43 57 10 > email: joris@albany.edu > http://pierrejoris.com > Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com > ____________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 08:12:32 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Re: film makers (resending as a gamil as much easier to read) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline (note i didn't write on more of my favorite american directors simply as figured others would--welles, griffth, keaton, nicholas ray, douglas sirk, boetticher, peckinpah, clint eastwood, robert aldrich, josef von sternberg, von stroheim (Greed), shirley clark, russ meyer, roger corman, many others-) A person who had a great influence on esp Godard as well as Truffaut and > worked a number of times with Samuel Beckett is Buster Keaton, one of the > most extraordinary of film makers, and one with a strange and life and > career, moving from comedy to tragedy to--Beckett! Since almost all his > films' "known copies" were destroyed in a fire, for some time his work was > "invisible" except to memories of those who had seen them and via old > stills. It was discovered, however, that his ouevre had been lovingly > preserved by none other than the Stalin regime. Stalin, the enemy of > capitalism loved American films--and every film that came into Soviet Union > to play for him as well as ones allowed to be shown publicly, was carefully > made copies of. And so it was that a lot of the "lost Classic American > Cinema" survived in the world of the Gulags. > (Another great fan and preserver of many American films was Hitler, > who, for those noting George W. Bush's cheeseburger pizza "you are what you > eat" diet, it should be reminded that Hitler was a vegetarian and drank > cocoa rather than coffee.) > Three directors who had a huge effect in the Third World of the > immediate post colonial period are Ousmane Sembene, Sergio Leone and > Pontecorvo (Battle of Algiers). Leone was a Marxist and his "Dollars > Trilogy" (A Fistful of Dollars, For a Few Dollars More, The Good, the Bad > and the Ugly) had a huge impact stylistically and in terms of the portrayal > of a popular "revolutionary hero". Clint East wood became a huge > international star actually before he was anything more than a tv actor in > the USA--especially in Third World counries. (You can see the huge impact > of the Spaghetti Western hero/anti-hero in the Jamaican film The Harder they > Come, in which Jimmy Cliff identifies with these characters and their > actions. There was also a Jamaican DJ Toaster (rapper) named Clint > Eastwood.) > Pontecorvo's Battle of Algiers had an immense effect through > out the world--and on the rise of independent Cinema in areas combating > colonialism, imperialism, suppressions of ethnic identities. Cinema Novo in > Brazil, for example and the new cinema in Quebec using a lot of documentary > as in the work of Jean-Louis Breault (i have to check the name spelling on > him been a long time) and West and North Africa. > A French director with origins in American film noir much > stronger than the other French New Wave (he even changed spelling of his > last name to be "more American") is Jean-Pierre Melville, a very great > director not well enough known in the USA. > A lot of the most interesting and films I have seen in recent > years have come from South Korea, in visual terms and use of sound/silence > as well as some of the most interesting forms of "narrative" and "subject > matter". Some of the best independent cinema in the world right now is > being made in Thailand, Malayasia and by Palestinians. These are films which > are as unusual formally as in terms of "content". > These are just feature films --if one went into the > documentary, animation, video, "art films" underground cinema, experimental > cinema. cult cinema classics, or even one genre alone--Film Noir say, or > Neo-Realism, the "Women's Film" > , the Juvenile Delinquent Genre, the Women in Prison genre, the Sci-Fi etc > etc--of any one or of all countries--War Films, films of Resistance, > classics of montage, revolutionaries n the fields of sound or lighting, > special effects, of improvisation, of control (Bresson for example), of > Propaganda, of the musicals, Westerns (and Easterns), Samurai, Bollywood, > etc etc etc--any one area would keep one busy for a long time. > The archeology of the cinema--its Anarkeyology--is never > ending and added to continually from the arrival of the new and the > discovery and rediscovery of the past. And the latter becomes part of the > production of the new--which in turn becomes a recent past influencing the > very next new--in yet another form of "New Wave"--you used to have to travel > to the Cinematheque in Paris to learn things which now you can find at the > tap of the keyboard--which greatly helps in the proliferation of awarenesses > and availabilities of film languages, techniques, examples--(of course you > don't get to meet all the people who hang at the Cinematheque--) > And now it is August--the anniversary of the "Atomic Age"--a > cinema that has spawned everything from Godzilla to the latest propaganda > productions of the Ministry of Fear (title also of an American WW2 film > directed by Fritz Lang which Brecht worked on) in the War on Terror and > Nuclear Threats, Weapons of Mass Destruction . . . > Thank you to Anny for noting Pasolini and Amy for naming > Kieslowski. > > TCM last month had a tribute to Ida Lupino, a favorite of mine--a very > rare figure in cinema history as in the forties she became a star actress > and in the Fifties a director, producer and screen writer also. She made > some very good films noir--The Hitch hiker and The Bigamist for example. > Agnes Varda and Catherine Breillat named before are two directors whose work > I think about a lot. > > ------------------------------ > Local listings, incredible imagery, and driving directions - all in one > place! Find it! > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 11:55:15 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) In-Reply-To: <52F08513-6595-4841-AF1E-679D8404B44E@mac.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed For the very little that this thread is worth, it seemed to be post-Renoir, i.e., post-Citizen Kane and much of the best Ford, Sturges, Hawks, etc. The most interesting US directors of the past say 20 years, in my book, are Jonathan Demme and Alan Rudolph, both of whose careers have suffered bigtime from the demands of Hollywood. I've never understood the appeal of Woody Allen. Mark At 03:06 AM 8/1/2007, you wrote: >yeap, ridiculous -- strange that you 'muricans seem to swoon >exclusively over eurappian directors -- if I think back on my >eurappian youth, & the movies that counted then (for me & my buddies, >but also for a number of those european directors mentioned as among >the 5 best) I would have to put 1/2 dozen american directors in there >immediately: Ford, Wells, Hawks, Walsh, Hitchkock (the Us version), >Peckingpaw to begin with & then all the great US comedy directors >such as Wilder and all those whose names don't jump off my tongue >right now... good lord! I want at least fifty movie makers in there >from Eisenstein & Abel Gance to Woody Allen & Stan Brakhage & beyond! > >Pierre > >On Jul 31, 2007, at 6:36 PM, steve d. dalachinsky wrote: > >>this argument is rediculous fellini bergman pasolini godddard >>etc all >>masters and so many more why do this silly top ten >> >>billy wilder fritz lang >> >>On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 17:25:41 -0400 Mark Weiss >>writes: >>>Myself, I'd keep Fellini for 8 1/2 and Satyricon, if I didn't need to >>> >>>make room for Visconti. Godard and Kurosawa are givens. And if >>>limited to five (assuming we're talking about the post-Renoir >>>generations) I'd add Almodovar and Wenders. Never had much interest >>> >>>in Bergman, tho his later films redeem the earlier ones for me. >>> >>>Mark >>> >>> >>>At 04:15 PM 7/30/2007, you wrote: >>>>Yes, on reading the list of "five" Pasolini was who I thought >>>about. And >>>>Fellini was who I questioned. . . in the long haul. >>>> >>>> >>>>>From: Anny Ballardini >>>>>Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >>> >>>>>Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:15:50 +0200 >>>>>To: >>>>>Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) >>>>> >>>>>don't really know if fellini was that high (or ray) mais a >>>chacun son >>>>>gout, I'd rather have pasolini there_ >>>>> >>>>>On 7/30/07, Aryanil Mukherjee wrote: >>>>>>thanks for the information. a stupendous loss for the world of >>>cinema. >>>>>>Of the magic 5 - fellini-ray-godard-kurosawa-bergman, now only >>>Godard >>>>>>remains. >>>>>> >>>>>>aryanil >>>>>> >>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>From: UB Poetics discussion group >>>[mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On >>>>>>Behalf Of Halvard Johnson >>>>>>Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 9:09 AM >>>>>>To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>>>>>Subject: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) >>>>>> >>>>>>Hal >>>>>> >>>>>>"Art is not a mirror held up to reality, >>>>>> but a hammer with which to shape it." >>>>>> --Bertolt Brecht >>>>>> >>>>>>Halvard Johnson >>>>>>================ >>>>>>halvard@earthlink.net >>>>>>http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html >>>>>>http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>>>>>http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >>>>>>http://www.hamiltonstone.org >>>>>>http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html >>> > >___________________________________________________________ > >The poet: always in partibus infidelium -- Paul Celan >___________________________________________________________ >Pierre Joris >244 Elm Street >Albany NY 12202 >h: 518 426 0433 >c: 518 225 7123 >o: 518 442 40 71 >Euro cell: (011 33) 6 75 43 57 10 >email: joris@albany.edu >http://pierrejoris.com >Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com >____________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 11:02:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: CA Conrad Subject: Re: a conversation with DODIE BELLAMY on Kathy Acker and writing through the... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Anne Bogle wrote: >>This is a totally invigorating piece of thought writing -- about today, >>lives, women writers, women & aging -- I read it straight through, without pause >>& bookmarked links for further reading & fwd'd it to my writer friends, who >>are (deep-down old, patient, tired) just waiting to read something like this! >>Heart. An amazing discussion, honest, & optimistic -- all. AMB Anne, THANKS! I just forwarded the link to your Buffalo List response to the others. If you get a chance to read Dodie Bellamy's essay on Kathy Acker, DO SO! It's incredible! In fact I should see if there's now a recording of her reading it from PENNSOUND. She blew our minds in Philadlephia reading that essay. And she had one of Kathy Acker's dresses hanging next to her during the reading, a black, sheer dress. A bit haunting, but incredibly beautiful to have both Bellamy and the dress in the room together like that. Thanks again, and yes, please spread the word, these women INSPIRE! IN FACT I WANT EILEEN MYLES TO RUN FOR PRESIDENT AGAIN DAMMIT! CAConrad http://PhillySound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 10:35:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Coffey Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) In-Reply-To: <52F08513-6595-4841-AF1E-679D8404B44E@mac.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Haven't seen any mention of Guy Maddin yet. Only time is keeping him from the eventual "top x directors" list. I recently saw an early Bergman film ("Port of Call") and was amazed at how cemented his vision was so early on. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 11:57:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) In-Reply-To: <001a01c7d44d$b3704c40$63ae4a4a@yourae066c3a9b> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable no John Huston? did "Annie" skunk his chances for eternal fame? -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Gerald Schwartz Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 10:08 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) Yes, and that list could begin with King Vidor and perhaps continue along=20 with Buster Keaton... Gerald > yeap, ridiculous -- strange that you 'muricans seem to swoon exclusively=20 > over eurappian directors -- if I think back on my eurappian youth, & the=20 > movies that counted then (for me & my buddies, but also for a number of=20 > those european directors mentioned as among the 5 best) I would have to=20 > put 1/2 dozen american directors in there immediately: Ford, Wells,=20 > Hawks, Walsh, Hitchkock (the Us version), Peckingpaw to begin with & then=20 > all the great US comedy directors such as Wilder and all those whose=20 > names don't jump off my tongue right now... good lord! I want at least=20 > fifty movie makers in there from Eisenstein & Abel Gance to Woody Allen &=20 > Stan Brakhage & beyond! > > Pierre > > On Jul 31, 2007, at 6:36 PM, steve d. dalachinsky wrote: > >> this argument is rediculous fellini bergman pasolini godddard etc=20 >> all >> masters and so many more why do this silly top ten >> >> billy wilder fritz lang >> >> On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 17:25:41 -0400 Mark Weiss >> writes: >>> Myself, I'd keep Fellini for 8 1/2 and Satyricon, if I didn't need to >>> >>> make room for Visconti. Godard and Kurosawa are givens. And if >>> limited to five (assuming we're talking about the post-Renoir >>> generations) I'd add Almodovar and Wenders. Never had much interest >>> >>> in Bergman, tho his later films redeem the earlier ones for me. >>> >>> Mark >>> >>> >>> At 04:15 PM 7/30/2007, you wrote: >>>> Yes, on reading the list of "five" Pasolini was who I thought >>> about. And >>>> Fellini was who I questioned. . . in the long haul. >>>> >>>> >>>>> From: Anny Ballardini >>>>> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >>> >>>>> Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:15:50 +0200 >>>>> To: >>>>> Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) >>>>> >>>>> don't really know if fellini was that high (or ray) mais a >>> chacun son >>>>> gout, I'd rather have pasolini there_ >>>>> >>>>> On 7/30/07, Aryanil Mukherjee wrote: >>>>>> thanks for the information. a stupendous loss for the world of >>> cinema. >>>>>> Of the magic 5 - fellini-ray-godard-kurosawa-bergman, now only >>> Godard >>>>>> remains. >>>>>> >>>>>> aryanil >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: UB Poetics discussion group >>> [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On >>>>>> Behalf Of Halvard Johnson >>>>>> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 9:09 AM >>>>>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>>>>> Subject: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) >>>>>> >>>>>> Hal >>>>>> >>>>>> "Art is not a mirror held up to reality, >>>>>> but a hammer with which to shape it." >>>>>> --Bertolt Brecht >>>>>> >>>>>> Halvard Johnson >>>>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>>>>> halvard@earthlink.net >>>>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html >>>>>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>>>>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >>>>>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >>>>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html >>>>>> >>> >>> > > ___________________________________________________________ > > The poet: always in partibus infidelium -- Paul Celan > ___________________________________________________________ > Pierre Joris > 244 Elm Street > Albany NY 12202 > h: 518 426 0433 > c: 518 225 7123 > o: 518 442 40 71 > Euro cell: (011 33) 6 75 43 57 10 > email: joris@albany.edu > http://pierrejoris.com > Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com > ____________________________________________________________=20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 13:25:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: directors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit what kind of mind jerking ifs this childish director stuff that's why i said originally impossible to pick 5 glad everyone's wokin up i avoided mentioning ford glad someone did On Wed, 1 Aug 2007 09:58:54 -0400 "J. Michael Mollohan" writes: > All this talk of great filmmakers and yet no one has mention Orson > Wells? > Or did I miss that? > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Eric Elshtain" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 7:57 AM > Subject: directors > > > > John Ford > > > > > > Eric Elshtain > > Editor > > Beard of Bees Press > > http://www.beardofbees.com > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 10:37:22 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve russell Subject: Bergam/ RIP MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bergam was basically August Strindberg mixed with some Kierkegaard. Has anyone read his novels? I haven't, but he turned to writing novels after he retired from filmmaking and directing plays. Noone has mentioned any contemporary filmmakers. Paul Anderson, a young American, has religious symbols in his movies. Martin S ain't so bad either. In d.c., we're not getting much outside the States unless one can make it to the National Gallery. I'm fond of Wim Wenders... --------------------------------- Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 10:44:16 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: a lot of filmakers are dead but Rupert Murdock lives and has bought the Wall Street Journal In-Reply-To: <401121.93187.qm@web84211.mail.re3.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit As long as Murdoch doesn't buy the New York Times, he remains a moloch who has little influence on my life, although the extent of his power is scary because he owns myspace or youtube or another one of those newly popular, populist places for everyone to post and see and be seen by other posters. Anyway, no one lives forever or holds power forever. That goes for Lord Rupert I and for George Bush II, thank the heaven in which I do not believe, anyway. wil Hallgren wrote: Rupert Murdock has absorbed The Wall Street Journal into his polymorphic media conglomerate. Let's see ... I can hardly contain my glee -- open the Journal; on page three to my great surprise -- in front of my eyes -- Anna Coulter au naturally! Incidentally, can we stop the filmamker count before we start listing James Whale and Roger Corman (both of whom I admire, ok we can see how this gets silly). Wil --------------------------------- Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 11:08:58 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Robins Subject: Re: question Comments: cc: az421@freenet.carleton.ca In-Reply-To: <20070731165539.D9116244C6@smeagol.ncf.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Rob, I'm reading with Dara Wier in Brooklyn on August 17th, should your friend be interested. Dara's most recent book is truly wonderful. Details below . . . -Michael Dara Wier and Michael Robins August 17, 2007 - 7:30 pm The Burning Chair Reading Series The Fall Cafe / 307 Smith Street / Brooklyn, NY www.typomag.com/burningchair/ > my friend Jennifer Mulligan will be in New York from the evening of August > 17th to the afternoon of August 19th; are there any lit events she should > consider going to? > > i'll probably send her with some above/ground press publications for > handout & maybe some Chaudiere Books catalogues too.... > > rob > > > -- > poet/editor/publisher ...STANZAS mag, above/ground press & Chaudiere > Books (www.chaudierebooks.com) ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press > fair ...13th poetry coll'n - The Ottawa City Project .... c/o 858 > Somerset St W, Ottawa ON K1R 6R7 * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 14:46:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cassandra Laity Subject: CFP: new Sixties Journal from Routledge Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline ANNOUNCEMENT AND CALL FOR SUBMISSIONS =20 Routledge is pleased to announce The Sixties: A Journal of History, = Politics, and Culture. A peer-reviewed journal, The Sixties will print = its premier issue in spring 2008. =20 =20 Featuring cross-disciplinary and cutting-edge scholarship from academics = and public intellectuals, The Sixties is the only academic journal devoted = to this most extraordinary, celebrated, and controversial decade. In = addition to research essays and book reviews, The Sixties will include = conversations, interviews, graphics, and considerations of the ways that = the 1960s continues to define global politics and popular culture. =20 The Sixties is co-edited by Jeremy Varon, Drew University, Michael S. = Foley, City University of New York, and John McMillian, Harvard University.= =20 Editorial Board: Beth Bailey, Winifred Breines, Marianne DeKoven, David = Farber, Peniel Joseph, Andrew Huebner, Daniel Kane, Martin Klimke, = Felicia Kornbluh, Ian Lekus, Fredrik Logevall, Lorena Oropeza, Jermi Suri, = Rhonda Williams, Patricia Zimmerman. =20 =20 For more information, please visit,: www.sixtiesjournal.com or www.informaworld.com/thesixties =20 =20 Call For Submissions =20 The journal takes "the long sixties" (roughly 1954-1975) as its broad = focus, and will include transnational and comparative analyses. Editors = welcome submissions in the following areas:=20 =20 * Social movements and political protest=20 * Foreign and domestic policy=20 * Institutions and international relations=20 * Decolonization and North-South conflicts=20 * Women's history, gender history and the history of sexuality=20 * The experiences of subaltern and sub-national groups=20 * Intellectual history=20 * Print culture and electronic media=20 * Music, literature, film, theater, architecture and the visual arts=20 * Industry, business and advertising=20 * Science, technology and ecology=20 * Crime and punishment=20 =20 Articles should be no more than 8,000 words and free of specialized = jargon, with Chicago referencing and limited endnotes. Please send = submissions electronically to each of the following addresses: Jeremy@sixti= esjournal.com , Michael@sixtiesjournal.com , = and John@sixtiesjournal.com . The deadline for materials to be = considered in the inaugural issue is October 1, 2007. =20 =20 Interested in reviewing a book for The Sixties? Professors or advanced = graduate students (ABD) who are be interesting in writing reviews are = invited to send short emails listing their credentials and areas of = expertise to John McMillian (john@sixtiesjournal.com ). = Normally, books will be assigned for review, but scholars interested in = writing lengthier interpretive review essays are encouraged to contact the = editors. And please bring to our attention to new titles on the 1960s. Cassandra Laity=20 Associate Professor Co-Editor Modernism/Modernity=20 Drew University=20 Madison, NJ 07940 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 21:10:12 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20070801115128.05df3c20@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline nor did I, even if there are some memorable quotes ___I will forever remember him with his pills and fear of dying and of living - now that you make me think back I might even like him (talking of Woody Allen) On 8/1/07, Mark Weiss wrote: > > For the very little that this thread is worth, it seemed to be > post-Renoir, i.e., post-Citizen Kane and much of the best Ford, > Sturges, Hawks, etc. > > The most interesting US directors of the past say 20 years, in my > book, are Jonathan Demme and Alan Rudolph, both of whose careers have > suffered bigtime from the demands of Hollywood. I've never understood > the appeal of Woody Allen. > > Mark > > At 03:06 AM 8/1/2007, you wrote: > >yeap, ridiculous -- strange that you 'muricans seem to swoon > >exclusively over eurappian directors -- if I think back on my > >eurappian youth, & the movies that counted then (for me & my buddies, > >but also for a number of those european directors mentioned as among > >the 5 best) I would have to put 1/2 dozen american directors in there > >immediately: Ford, Wells, Hawks, Walsh, Hitchkock (the Us version), > >Peckingpaw to begin with & then all the great US comedy directors > >such as Wilder and all those whose names don't jump off my tongue > >right now... good lord! I want at least fifty movie makers in there > >from Eisenstein & Abel Gance to Woody Allen & Stan Brakhage & beyond! > > > >Pierre > > > >On Jul 31, 2007, at 6:36 PM, steve d. dalachinsky wrote: > > > >>this argument is rediculous fellini bergman pasolini godddard > >>etc all > >>masters and so many more why do this silly top ten > >> > >>billy wilder fritz lang > >> > >>On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 17:25:41 -0400 Mark Weiss > >>writes: > >>>Myself, I'd keep Fellini for 8 1/2 and Satyricon, if I didn't need to > >>> > >>>make room for Visconti. Godard and Kurosawa are givens. And if > >>>limited to five (assuming we're talking about the post-Renoir > >>>generations) I'd add Almodovar and Wenders. Never had much interest > >>> > >>>in Bergman, tho his later films redeem the earlier ones for me. > >>> > >>>Mark > >>> > >>> > >>>At 04:15 PM 7/30/2007, you wrote: > >>>>Yes, on reading the list of "five" Pasolini was who I thought > >>>about. And > >>>>Fellini was who I questioned. . . in the long haul. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>From: Anny Ballardini > >>>>>Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > >>> > >>>>>Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:15:50 +0200 > >>>>>To: > >>>>>Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) > >>>>> > >>>>>don't really know if fellini was that high (or ray) mais a > >>>chacun son > >>>>>gout, I'd rather have pasolini there_ > >>>>> > >>>>>On 7/30/07, Aryanil Mukherjee wrote: > >>>>>>thanks for the information. a stupendous loss for the world of > >>>cinema. > >>>>>>Of the magic 5 - fellini-ray-godard-kurosawa-bergman, now only > >>>Godard > >>>>>>remains. > >>>>>> > >>>>>>aryanil > >>>>>> > >>>>>>-----Original Message----- > >>>>>>From: UB Poetics discussion group > >>>[mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > >>>>>>Behalf Of Halvard Johnson > >>>>>>Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 9:09 AM > >>>>>>To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >>>>>>Subject: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) > >>>>>> > >>>>>>Hal > >>>>>> > >>>>>>"Art is not a mirror held up to reality, > >>>>>> but a hammer with which to shape it." > >>>>>> --Bertolt Brecht > >>>>>> > >>>>>>Halvard Johnson > >>>>>>================ > >>>>>>halvard@earthlink.net > >>>>>>http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > >>>>>>http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > >>>>>>http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > >>>>>>http://www.hamiltonstone.org > >>>>>>http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > >>> > > > >___________________________________________________________ > > > >The poet: always in partibus infidelium -- Paul Celan > >___________________________________________________________ > >Pierre Joris > >244 Elm Street > >Albany NY 12202 > >h: 518 426 0433 > >c: 518 225 7123 > >o: 518 442 40 71 > >Euro cell: (011 33) 6 75 43 57 10 > >email: joris@albany.edu > >http://pierrejoris.com > >Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com > >____________________________________________________________ > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 15:34:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: CFP: new Sixties Journal from Routledge In-Reply-To: <46B09CAA020000ED00038FE6@giadom.drew.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Are there also journals for the 50s, 70s and 80s, or are they not academic disciplines yet? If you suspect that I think this is more than a little silly, you're right. On the other hand, it's a good field for truly lazy academics, and one wouldn't want them underemployed. Hell, they might even get into drugs, sex and rock and roll. Mark At 02:46 PM 8/1/2007, you wrote: >ANNOUNCEMENT AND CALL FOR SUBMISSIONS > >Routledge is pleased to announce The Sixties: A Journal of History, >Politics, and Culture. A peer-reviewed journal, The Sixties will >print its premier issue in spring 2008. > >Featuring cross-disciplinary and cutting-edge scholarship from >academics and public intellectuals, The Sixties is the only academic >journal devoted to this most extraordinary, celebrated, and >controversial decade. In addition to research essays and book >reviews, The Sixties will include conversations, interviews, >graphics, and considerations of the ways that the 1960s continues to >define global politics and popular culture. > >The Sixties is co-edited by Jeremy Varon, Drew University, Michael >S. Foley, City University of New York, and John McMillian, Harvard University. > >Editorial Board: Beth Bailey, Winifred Breines, Marianne DeKoven, >David Farber, Peniel Joseph, Andrew Huebner, Daniel Kane, Martin >Klimke, Felicia Kornbluh, Ian Lekus, Fredrik Logevall, Lorena >Oropeza, Jermi Suri, Rhonda Williams, Patricia Zimmerman. > >For more information, please visit,: www.sixtiesjournal.com > or >www.informaworld.com/thesixties > >Call For Submissions > >The journal takes "the long sixties" (roughly 1954-1975) as its >broad focus, and will include transnational and comparative >analyses. Editors welcome submissions in the following areas: > >* Social movements and political protest >* Foreign and domestic policy >* Institutions and international relations >* Decolonization and North-South conflicts >* Women's history, gender history and the history of sexuality >* The experiences of subaltern and sub-national groups >* Intellectual history >* Print culture and electronic media >* Music, literature, film, theater, architecture and the visual arts >* Industry, business and advertising >* Science, technology and ecology >* Crime and punishment > >Articles should be no more than 8,000 words and free of specialized >jargon, with Chicago referencing and limited endnotes. Please send >submissions electronically to each of the following addresses: >Jeremy@sixtiesjournal.com > >, Michael@sixtiesjournal.com > >, and John@sixtiesjournal.com > >. The deadline for materials to be considered in the inaugural >issue is October 1, 2007. > >Interested in reviewing a book for The Sixties? Professors or >advanced graduate students (ABD) who are be interesting in writing >reviews are invited to send short emails listing their credentials >and areas of expertise to John McMillian (john@sixtiesjournal.com > >). Normally, books will be assigned for review, but scholars >interested in writing lengthier interpretive review essays are >encouraged to contact the editors. And please bring to our >attention to new titles on the 1960s. > > >Cassandra Laity >Associate Professor >Co-Editor Modernism/Modernity >Drew University >Madison, NJ 07940 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 13:24:59 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve russell Subject: Why the Appeal of Woody Allen? Here's why: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Woody Allen knows just enough to make an audience with a 4 year degree feel smart. His stuff dates quickly. A much better comedian, and fine writer: Steve Martin. Allen has never done anything nearly as original as Pennies from Heaven. Also, Martin's second novel, The Pleasure of My Company proves that the guy can write... --------------------------------- Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 16:54:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kevin thurston Subject: Re: Why the Appeal of Woody Allen? Here's why: In-Reply-To: <237056.97253.qm@web52406.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline *Why the Appeal of Woody Allen? Here's why:* oh, this smells like a thing to be added to 'i think' its because he (as said in an interview) always went for the laugh over depth. an awful lot of people like to be entertained at a movie--its part of the...appeal. and, yes, steve, with my 4 year degree woody allen makes me feel *really* smart. but now i dont feel smart. because of you. please come over and download your brain into mine when you have the time. On 8/1/07, steve russell wrote: > > Woody Allen knows just enough to make an audience with a 4 year degree > feel smart. His stuff dates quickly. A much better comedian, and fine > writer: Steve Martin. Allen has never done anything nearly as original as > Pennies from Heaven. Also, Martin's second novel, The Pleasure of My Company > proves that the guy can write... > > --------------------------------- > Luggage? GPS? Comic books? > Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search. > -- *new address* 802 richmond ave #2 buffalo, ny 14222 http://fuckinglies.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 16:34:12 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Coffey Subject: Re: for what it's worth In-Reply-To: <750c78460708011433s5586a1b7t450c4532bea941df@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Ooops - that should be Christian Wiman, not Christopher. On 8/1/07, Dan Coffey wrote: > Two quotes from Christopher Wiman's _Ambition and Survival: Becoming a > Poet_, courtesy of the July 23 issue of Publishers Weekly: > > "[T]here is a direct correlation between the quality of the poem and > the poet's capacity for suffering." > > "Most lasting art is made by people who believe with everything in > them that art is for the sake of life, but who live otherwise." > -- http://hyperhypo.org/blog http://www.pftborder.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 16:33:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Coffey Subject: for what it's worth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Two quotes from Christopher Wiman's _Ambition and Survival: Becoming a Poet_, courtesy of the July 23 issue of Publishers Weekly: "[T]here is a direct correlation between the quality of the poem and the poet's capacity for suffering." "Most lasting art is made by people who believe with everything in them that art is for the sake of life, but who live otherwise." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 19:22:01 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Why the Appeal of Woody Allen? Here's why: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Self-loathing never seems especially funny to me. But it is a matter of taste, which on ne discute pas. Mark At 04:54 PM 8/1/2007, you wrote: >*Why the Appeal of Woody Allen? Here's why:* >oh, this smells like a thing to be added to > >'i think' its because he (as said in an interview) always went for the laugh >over depth. >an awful lot of people like to be entertained at a movie--its part of >the...appeal. > >and, yes, steve, with my 4 year degree woody allen makes me feel *really* >smart. but now i dont feel smart. because of you. please come over and >download your brain into mine when you have the time. > >On 8/1/07, steve russell wrote: > > > > Woody Allen knows just enough to make an audience with a 4 year degree > > feel smart. His stuff dates quickly. A much better comedian, and fine > > writer: Steve Martin. Allen has never done anything nearly as original as > > Pennies from Heaven. Also, Martin's second novel, The Pleasure of > My Company > > proves that the guy can write... > > > > --------------------------------- > > Luggage? GPS? Comic books? > > Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search. > > > > > >-- >*new address* >802 richmond ave #2 >buffalo, ny 14222 > >http://fuckinglies.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 18:20:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "c. s. giscombe" Subject: Re: directors (bergman, antonioni, etc.) In-Reply-To: <20070801.133327.1960.17.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I’ve generally found Bergman just a touch over-wrought though I endlessly admire “Persona” and the oddly insistent “Smiles of a Summer Night.” (And, for that matter, “Shame.”) I saw Antonioni’s “Blow-Up” when it first came out, when I was in high school—the Catholic Motion Picture Office/ Legion of Decency ratings were posted once a week in the school library and “Blow-Up” was “Condemned” which made it a must-see. The film of course gave me a great deal more than I expected—certainly it was one of the big events of my adolescence—and I’m glad this week that I was able to see Antonioni himself when he was a visiting artist, a “Professor at Large,” at Cornell in the 1980s. The main public event of his visit was a screening of the three-hour, almost unbearably bleak, version of “The Passenger.” He stepped up to the microphone, softly thanked the audience for coming, and simply had the projectionist start the movie. And since Steve Russell mentioned “Pennies From Heaven,” I’ll note that it was written by Dennis Potter, who died a few years ago. Potter, who was British, had decided at some point that he would work exclusively in television and he used his decision to good effect. “Pennies From Heaven” was made originally as a mini-series for the BBC in 1978 and starred Bob Hoskins—I found it when it was re-broadcast on PBS in 1980 or so. It’s still probably the best thing I’ve ever seen that was done for TV. Potter also wrote the very fine “Singing Detective,” also a BBC mini-series—both it and “Pennies From Heaven” are findable these days and quite worth watching. ______________ C. S. Giscombe csgiscombe@yahoo.com telephone: 814-571-0429 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 21:37:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Calling Maria Damon, Mark Nowak, everybody in the Twin Cities MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Dearest friends: Please, as soon as you see this, post a note to let us know you and all our other good friends weren't on that bridge -- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We are enslaved by what makes us free -- intolerable paradox at the heart of speech. --Robert Kelly Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 21:42:47 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Larissa Shmailo Subject: Hiroshima Day Reading at The Living Theater Mon Aug 6 Comments: cc: POETRYETC@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.WVU.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Living Poetry at The Living Theater Presents Hiroshima Day Reading at The Living Theater, Monday, August 6th, 8-11, $6 Curated by: Dorothy F. August Open Mike to follow reading Dorothy F. August Steve Cannon Luis Chaluisan Steve Dalachinsky Bob Hershon Eliot Katz Judith Malina Lissa Moira Yuko Otono Hanon Reznikov Bina Sharif Larissa Shmailo George Wallace Chavisa Woods Bill Zavatsky Joanie Fritz-Zosike Larissa Shmailo (http://myspace.com/larissaworld) "The poet, like the lover, is a menace on the assembly line." -Rollo May _http://_ (http://larissashmailo.blogspot.com/) _www.myspace.com/thenonetworld_ (http://www.myspace.com/thenonetworld) _http://larissashmailo.blogspot.com_ (http://larissashmailo.blogspot.com/) ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 23:08:06 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ann Bogle Subject: Re: Calling Maria Damon, Mark Nowak, everybody in the Twin Cities MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ann Bogle was not on the 35W bridge in Minneapolis when the bridge collapsed; thanks for posting for our whereabouts -- hope all are safe. AMB ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 22:16:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: Calling Maria Damon, Mark Nowak, everybody in the Twin Cities In-Reply-To: <1186018653l.593936l.0l@psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I believe Maria flew to Cape Cod earlier today, that's what she told us yesterday... This is absolutely gut-wrenching to watch-- On Aug 1, 2007, at 8:37 PM, ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > Dearest friends: > > Please, as soon as you see this, post a note to let us know you and > all our > other good friends weren't on that bridge -- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 23:16:15 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: directors In-Reply-To: <003801c7d444$1a7f8d60$6400a8c0@Janus> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline o you didn't. Murat On 8/1/07, J. Michael Mollohan wrote: > > All this talk of great filmmakers and yet no one has mention Orson Wells? > Or did I miss that? > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Eric Elshtain" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 7:57 AM > Subject: directors > > > > John Ford > > > > > > Eric Elshtain > > Editor > > Beard of Bees Press > > http://www.beardofbees.com > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 00:16:52 -0400 Reply-To: tyrone williams Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tyrone williams Subject: Re: Calling Maria Damon, Mark Nowak, everybody in the Twin Cities Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hear, hear. tyrone -----Original Message----- >From: ALDON L NIELSEN >Sent: Aug 1, 2007 9:37 PM >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Calling Maria Damon, Mark Nowak, everybody in the Twin Cities > >Dearest friends: > >Please, as soon as you see this, post a note to let us know you and all our >other good friends weren't on that bridge -- > > ><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > We are enslaved by > what makes us free -- intolerable > paradox at the heart of speech. > --Robert Kelly > >Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > >Aldon L. Nielsen >Kelly Professor of American Literature >The Pennsylvania State University >116 Burrowes >University Park, PA 16802-6200 > >(814) 865-0091 Tyrone Williams ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 23:37:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fluffy Singler Subject: Re: Calling Maria Damon, Mark Nowak,Tom Lewis, everybody in the Twin Cities MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm in the Twin Cities. Was on campus at the University (less than a mile from the bridge, maybe half a mile) rehearsing a show when we got the news and saw the thing with my own eyes within about the first 15 minutes after it happened. Traumatized but otherwise ok from here. Thanks for the check in. I too would like to hear from everyone. Laura Winton -----Original Message----- From: ALDON L NIELSEN [mailto:aln10@PSU.EDU] Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 8:38 PM Subject: Calling Maria Damon, Mark Nowak, everybody in the Twin Cities Dearest friends: Please, as soon as you see this, post a note to let us know you and all our other good friends weren't on that bridge -- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We are enslaved by what makes us free -- intolerable paradox at the heart of speech. --Robert Kelly Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 08:01:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Davey Volner Subject: Charles Simic Named Poet Laureate MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/02/books/02poet.html Well! That's something. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 10:25:58 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: the mirror MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed the mirror everything has been said about the mirror, speech cannot reflect, lip reading is muscle reading, speech reflects upon speech, there is here and that, there are no scent, touch, nothing of temperature or sound, sound may reflect, not here and now among the eye, there are no taste, of which the pure, for example that dirty bum over there, no need to clean her mirror cloth, brilliant, what happens before the mirror is caught within the mirror, from a certain viewpoint, certain angle, not everywhere, not even where you or i are the mirror is a form of digital memory, instantaneous release and absence of commitment, filtered the visible within the eternal, that is to say positioning the eternal, positing the turn away from, away from what, from contagion, from what cannot reflect or be reflected, there are always exceptions, less relevant than one might think, what is the rule here, only photonic mechanisms, absorption release, according to what, according to mathesis, to pure form itself, to the cleansed mirror, forgetting just the rest of things turning the mirror off, turning away from the mirror, from mirror or mirroring, even the shift at an obtuse angle, there it goes, there it all goes but the memory, that is, of the digital before its bearing, before presage, prespeech, of a future anterior, which is what, which is why the mirror appears to foretell what, foretell the future which is why the future is digital ( http://www.asondheim.org/mirror1.jpg ) ( http://www.asondheim.org/mirror2.jpg ) ( http://www.asondheim.org/mirror3.jpg ) ( http://www.asondheim.org/mirror4.jpg ) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 07:33:35 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: Why the Appeal of Woody Allen? Here's why: In-Reply-To: <237056.97253.qm@web52406.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit What you say about Steve Martin was true. He made a great movie called The Man With Two Brains quite a few years ago. The movies he's made lately seem mostly aimed at the low IQ set so I haven't seen them. In thirty years of movie making, Woody Allen has made only one bad movie. Regards, Tom Savage steve russell wrote: Woody Allen knows just enough to make an audience with a 4 year degree feel smart. His stuff dates quickly. A much better comedian, and fine writer: Steve Martin. Allen has never done anything nearly as original as Pennies from Heaven. Also, Martin's second novel, The Pleasure of My Company proves that the guy can write... --------------------------------- Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search. --------------------------------- Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 09:43:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: Re: Calling Maria Damon, Mark Nowak,Tom Lewis, everybody in the Twin Cities In-Reply-To: <004f01c7d4be$e3936170$92de9e04@D48XR971> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I was still at work in Eagan (about 15 m south of the 35W bridge site) -- heard about it on the radio. I drive over two bridges twice daily to get to and from work (spanning the Mississippi and the Minnesota Rivers), but lower down from where the 35W bridge gave way.=20 my favorite back-door route into Minneapolis is now cut off, under the wreckage -- otherwise, thankfully, everyone I know is safe and accounted for this morning.=20 tl -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Fluffy Singler Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 23:38 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Calling Maria Damon, Mark Nowak,Tom Lewis, everybody in the Twin Cities I'm in the Twin Cities. Was on campus at the University (less than a mile from the bridge, maybe half a mile) rehearsing a show when we got the news and saw the thing with my own eyes within about the first 15 minutes after it happened. Traumatized but otherwise ok from here. Thanks for the check in. I too would like to hear from everyone. Laura Winton -----Original Message----- From: ALDON L NIELSEN [mailto:aln10@PSU.EDU]=20 Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 8:38 PM Subject: Calling Maria Damon, Mark Nowak, everybody in the Twin Cities Dearest friends: Please, as soon as you see this, post a note to let us know you and all our other good friends weren't on that bridge --=20 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> We are enslaved by what makes us free -- intolerable paradox at the heart of speech. --Robert Kelly Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 11:23:07 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Why the Appeal of Woody Allen? Here's why: In-Reply-To: <293016.30064.qm@web31114.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Agreed. I've rarely seen more than one bad Woody Allen film at a time. Mark At 10:33 AM 8/2/2007, you wrote: >What you say about Steve Martin was true. He made a great movie >called The Man With Two Brains quite a few years ago. The movies >he's made lately seem mostly aimed at the low IQ set so I haven't >seen them. In thirty years of movie making, Woody Allen has made >only one bad movie. Regards, Tom Savage > >steve russell wrote: Woody Allen knows >just enough to make an audience with a 4 year degree feel smart. His >stuff dates quickly. A much better comedian, and fine writer: Steve >Martin. Allen has never done anything nearly as original as Pennies >from Heaven. Also, Martin's second novel, The Pleasure of My Company >proves that the guy can write... > >--------------------------------- >Luggage? GPS? Comic books? >Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search. > > > >--------------------------------- >Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! >Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 11:08:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Calling Maria Damon, Mark Nowak, everybody in the Twin Cities Comments: To: manowak@stkate.edu In-Reply-To: <1186018653l.593936l.0l@psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i'm ok, just left for a plane to b'ton y'day. but the bridge is right by the University so i'm pretty freaked. mark? you out there? ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > Dearest friends: > > Please, as soon as you see this, post a note to let us know you and all our > other good friends weren't on that bridge -- > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > We are enslaved by > what makes us free -- intolerable > paradox at the heart of speech. > --Robert Kelly > > Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > > Aldon L. Nielsen > Kelly Professor of American Literature > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 11:41:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: directors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit just saw sakarov's moloch wow lots more great films than there are great film maker's bela tarr 4 great films satantango On Wed, 1 Aug 2007 23:16:15 -0400 Murat Nemet-Nejat writes: > o you didn't. > > Murat > > On 8/1/07, J. Michael Mollohan wrote: > > > > All this talk of great filmmakers and yet no one has mention Orson > Wells? > > Or did I miss that? > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Eric Elshtain" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 7:57 AM > > Subject: directors > > > > > > > John Ford > > > > > > > > > Eric Elshtain > > > Editor > > > Beard of Bees Press > > > http://www.beardofbees.com > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 12:07:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: CFP: new Sixties Journal from Routledge MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit WHaT THE FUG(S) IS A PUBLIC INTELLECTUAL? YOU MEAN DROP OUTS LIKE ME? oh and academics? are they not available to the public are the private intellectuals? are poems acceptable or knowing someone on the editorial board? a very 60's thing... On Wed, 1 Aug 2007 14:46:02 -0400 Cassandra Laity writes: > ANNOUNCEMENT AND CALL FOR SUBMISSIONS > > Routledge is pleased to announce The Sixties: A Journal of History, > Politics, and Culture. A peer-reviewed journal, The Sixties will > print its premier issue in spring 2008. > > Featuring cross-disciplinary and cutting-edge scholarship from > academics and public intellectuals, The Sixties is the only academic > journal devoted to this most extraordinary, celebrated, and > controversial decade. In addition to research essays and book > reviews, The Sixties will include conversations, interviews, > graphics, and considerations of the ways that the 1960s continues to > define global politics and popular culture. > > The Sixties is co-edited by Jeremy Varon, Drew University, Michael > S. Foley, City University of New York, and John McMillian, Harvard > University. > > Editorial Board: Beth Bailey, Winifred Breines, Marianne DeKoven, > David Farber, Peniel Joseph, Andrew Huebner, Daniel Kane, Martin > Klimke, Felicia Kornbluh, Ian Lekus, Fredrik Logevall, Lorena > Oropeza, Jermi Suri, Rhonda Williams, Patricia Zimmerman. > > For more information, please visit,: www.sixtiesjournal.com > or > www.informaworld.com/thesixties > > > Call For Submissions > > The journal takes "the long sixties" (roughly 1954-1975) as its > broad focus, and will include transnational and comparative > analyses. Editors welcome submissions in the following areas: > > * Social movements and political protest > * Foreign and domestic policy > * Institutions and international relations > * Decolonization and North-South conflicts > * Women's history, gender history and the history of sexuality > * The experiences of subaltern and sub-national groups > * Intellectual history > * Print culture and electronic media > * Music, literature, film, theater, architecture and the visual arts > > * Industry, business and advertising > * Science, technology and ecology > * Crime and punishment > > Articles should be no more than 8,000 words and free of specialized > jargon, with Chicago referencing and limited endnotes. Please send > submissions electronically to each of the following addresses: > Jeremy@sixtiesjournal.com > > , Michael@sixtiesjournal.com > > , and John@sixtiesjournal.com > > . The deadline for materials to be considered in the inaugural > issue is October 1, 2007. > > Interested in reviewing a book for The Sixties? Professors or > advanced graduate students (ABD) who are be interesting in writing > reviews are invited to send short emails listing their credentials > and areas of expertise to John McMillian (john@sixtiesjournal.com > > ). Normally, books will be assigned for review, but scholars > interested in writing lengthier interpretive review essays are > encouraged to contact the editors. And please bring to our > attention to new titles on the 1960s. > > > Cassandra Laity > Associate Professor > Co-Editor Modernism/Modernity > Drew University > Madison, NJ 07940 > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 11:42:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: CA Conrad Subject: Re: Why the Appeal of Woody Allen? Here's why: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Oh, but Woody Allen is SO HOT! He's the sexiest man alive! Every single time I see him I wish I was his twelve year old stepdaughter! (I'm always amazed by the double standard for celebrity pedophiles) Steve Martin is pretty fantastic though as a comedian. If anyone could FINALLY put A CONFEDERACY OF DUNCES to the screen properly it's Steve Martin! And if he asked Lily Tomlin for help in putting it together it would probably be one of the finest comedies of our lives. By the way I JUST LOVE IT when you guys get on here and measure your cock sizes by how many years of school you have, or other such crap! It cracks me up for hours! YOU'RE THE REAL COMEDIANS! HEHEHEHE! Meanwhile I was thrown out of college for arguing with the professors. It's always amazed me I was asked to leave for THAT, and NOT because I slept with one of them. Well, that's for his wife to sort out, not me. CAConrad http://PhillySound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 10:26:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: CFP: new Sixties Journal from Routledge In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20070801153059.05e19ea8@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline it is the long sixties, so it includes the 50s and 70s; Barry S is saying that this is the late modern period just like the long sixteenth century is the former baroque period called the early modern period actually this sort of jockeying for position & "new areas" seems like academia being entrepreneurial -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly@gmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 12:42:55 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Grant Jenkins Subject: Bookstores in your town? A comprehensive list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear List, I'm compiling as comprehensive a list as I can of bookstores in North America and the UK that carry good selections of or hold readings/signings in experimental/innovative poetry, poetics, and poetry criticism. Please backchannel. Once I compile the list, I will make it available to everyone online. Thanks for your help! Best, Grant -- G. Matthew Jenkins Director of the Writing Program Faculty of English Language & Literature The University of Tulsa Tulsa, OK 74104 918.631.2573 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 10:43:07 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve russell Subject: Why Woody Allen: MY BAD... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit i looked it up. Steve Martin didn't write or direct Pennies from Heaven. He starred in it. His second novel The Pleasure of My Company is worth reading. I love posting. It's therapeutic. I'm insufferably opinionated. Dogmatic. I dropped out of college in my Senior year. Instead of inflicting my neurosis on friends... --------------------------------- Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 14:34:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Waber Subject: 3,686 visual poetry links Comments: To: announce MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii New at vispoets.com, The List Of Links. 3,686 links listed and organized by conceptual tag. There goes your afternoon. In the "resources & references" section of the forum at vispoets.com, or, to go directly to the entry: http://vispoets.com/index.php?showtopic=8521 Guests may read, however, you must register to make posts to the forum (thus, to suggest missing links). Registered users also get free gallery space, so please consider signing up. It's quick, free, and easy. If you just want to make use of the list and not make use of vispoets.com, it's served up from: http://del.icio.us/visualpoetry Regards, Dan ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 14:07:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Skip Fox Subject: Re: Charles Simic Named Poet Laureate In-Reply-To: <67dec99a0708020501xf2e95fct5f5091414e966f45@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit So is the ad for Sprint Speed. -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Davey Volner Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 7:01 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Charles Simic Named Poet Laureate http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/02/books/02poet.html Well! That's something. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 17:38:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: Bookstores in your town? A comprehensive list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline WHAT A GREAT IDEA! (The Bookpackers Guide to the Galaxy!) Mairead >>> grant-jenkins@UTULSA.EDU 08/02/07 1:42 PM >>> Dear List, I'm compiling as comprehensive a list as I can of bookstores in North America and the UK that carry good selections of or hold readings/signings in experimental/innovative poetry, poetics, and poetry criticism. Please backchannel. Once I compile the list, I will make it available to everyone online. Thanks for your help! Best, Grant -- G. Matthew Jenkins Director of the Writing Program Faculty of English Language & Literature The University of Tulsa Tulsa, OK 74104 918.631.2573 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 19:33:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: Why the Appeal of Woody Allen? Here's why: In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20070802112204.05f14528@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You just haven't been trying, Mark. Why do you think you were given two eyes? Hal "If the brain were so simple we could understand it, we would be so simple we couldn't." --Lyall Watson Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Aug 2, 2007, at 10:23 AM, Mark Weiss wrote: > Agreed. I've rarely seen more than one bad Woody Allen film at a time. > > Mark > > At 10:33 AM 8/2/2007, you wrote: >> What you say about Steve Martin was true. He made a great movie >> called The Man With Two Brains quite a few years ago. The movies >> he's made lately seem mostly aimed at the low IQ set so I haven't >> seen them. In thirty years of movie making, Woody Allen has made >> only one bad movie. Regards, Tom Savage >> >> steve russell wrote: Woody Allen knows >> just enough to make an audience with a 4 year degree feel smart. >> His stuff dates quickly. A much better comedian, and fine writer: >> Steve Martin. Allen has never done anything nearly as original as >> Pennies from Heaven. Also, Martin's second novel, The Pleasure of >> My Company proves that the guy can write... >> >> --------------------------------- >> Luggage? GPS? Comic books? >> Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search. >> >> >> >> --------------------------------- >> Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! >> Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at >> Yahoo! Games. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 19:46:31 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aryanil Mukherjee Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) In-Reply-To: <0cd49676c7a800428b5efe3f32404603@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I'm the one to be blamed, I started this. My initial 5, or ok, lets say 10, pertained to Bergman's generation. Now we have names from virtually every age of cinema. What makes me glad is that from a "silly" naming game we are now into a movie-mood sharing specific films, personal experiences, nostalgias etc. Great names have come up. Talking about American cinema, we went as far back as Vertov, but sadly no one mentioned D W Griffith whom I would call the father of modern cinema. Also, we forgot Charles Chaplin - he made a lot of films here, in Chicago and NY. Going around the world, I can't think of a film director better known internationally. Notable omissions I can think of are - Hungary - Zoltan Fabri, Marta Meszaros, Zanussi, the Czech new wave heros - Milos Forman, Jiri Menzel, Vera Chitilova France - Louis Malle, Robert Bresson India - Ritwik Ghatak, Mrinal Sen Cuba - Tomas Alea Poland - Roman Polanski Germany - Volker Schlondroff, Marguerite Von Trotta Turkey - Yilmaaz Gunay Iran - Mohsen Makhmalbaf, Zafar Panahi Brazil - Nelson Pereira Aryanil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tisa Bryant" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 8:07 PM Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) I just watched L'ECLISSE for the 5th time (I wrote a piece on it; be out soon), but love the inexplicable actions of THE PASSENGER and L'AVVENTURA. Haven't watched Bergman since last year (AUTUMN SONATA); will return to him, "my first film love". I think PERSONA was the first I saw of his, at the Brattle Theater in Cambridge, MA. My film school. I remember one particular evening, at the end of a failed love affair that hadn't quite ended, I watched three Bergman films (WILD STRAWBERRIES was one) in a row. But sadly, I've always attempted to watch THE SEVENTH SEAL late at night, and I've always fallen asleep. He taught me about light, dark, silence and the layered frame (I think someone said something about his depth of field, or some suchness). Bergman's women...and Woody Allen's, Godard's, Cassavetes', Fellini's, etc...it's more than amazing, what these women have done for film, in film, made visible, palpable...in an expression of the inexpressible (to quote Blonde Redhead, a propos a Vitti), from director to actor. didn't a book on Monica Vitti just come out? I remember reading a review in BookForum, I think. My "Indelible Imagemakers" list, in no order, hella long, and really, it could change tomorrow, and well it should; there are at least 20 filmmakers for my every mood. As for the top whatever, and voting, etc? Not interested. I'll leave that to some academy. These folks' works haunt, mark, stay with me, and I keep returning, seeking them out for more: Antonioni Bergman Jean-Pierre Melville Alain Resnais Renoir Fellini Almodovar Kubrick Godard Kurosawa Cassavetes Sembene Ousmane (died last month; was also a novelist) Bela Tarr Coppola Ozu Jacques Rivette Billy Wilder Charles Burnett (and not just for KILLER OF SHEEP) Satyajit Ray Flora Gomes (and all the overlooked "African New Wave" filmmakers of the late 80s -early 90s, along with the "Hong Kong New Wave") Otto Preminger Shohei Imamura Tsai Ming Liang Chris Marker (I dare!) Scorcese Luchino Visconti Stanley Kwan Claire Denis Oscar Micheaux George Cukor Chantal Akerman Nancy Savoca Fassbinder Spike Lee John Sayles Apichatpong Weerasethakul (let's see, 10 years from now, what's up) Tarkovsky Agnes Varda It's all so intertextual! That's what makes the ongoing conversation of cinema so interesting to me. And why the list, really, means nothing. But I couldn't help it! About to watch Pasolini's MAMA ROMA, and Theo Angelopoulos' THE WEEPING MEADOW; some buyer's on point at the Brooklyn Public Library. I also really liked Bertolucci's BEFORE THE REVOLUTION. Peace and light to the spirits of Igmar Bergman and Antonioni as they pass through this world to the next, and much thanks to them for leaving so much of themselves, and their vision, with us. Tisa ¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨ ¨¨¨¨¨¨¨ Prose is like a window; fiction is like a door. But it is not uncommon that he who should come in through the door jumps in through the window. MuXin translated by Toming Jun Liu ¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨ ¨¨¨¨¨¨¨ On Jul 31, 2007, at 5:20 PM, amy king wrote: > John Cassavettes, yes! Someone already wrote Akria Kurosawa, yes? > > Anything Krystof Kieslowski. > > Dare I throw Chris Marker into the mix? And Wim Wenders? > > > Ruth Lepson wrote: > and cassavettes & who cd forget 'Nashville' > http://www.amyking.org/blog > > --------------------------------- > Luggage? GPS? Comic books? > Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search. > -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.25/926 - Release Date: 7/29/2007 11:14 PM ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 16:52:22 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dave Barber Subject: Re: Charles Simic Named Poet Laureate In-Reply-To: <000001c7d538$76c69880$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit interesting poems! -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Skip Fox Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 1:08 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Charles Simic Named Poet Laureate So is the ad for Sprint Speed. -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Davey Volner Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 7:01 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Charles Simic Named Poet Laureate http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/02/books/02poet.html Well! That's something. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 19:23:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander Subject: Re: Bookstores in your town? A comprehensive list In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Yes, but the list probably will need constant updating. It seems that we lose such stores with great regularity, and while others come up, sometimes, to replace them, those seem to have very short lives. The story here in Tucson would have been quite different at various points here in the last 20 or so years. Even different now from 2 years ago. The last two lost that held such events or had such selections (generally the events were better than the selections) were Biblio (Congress St.) and Reader's Oasis (Speedway). charles At 02:38 PM 8/2/2007, you wrote: >WHAT A GREAT IDEA! >(The Bookpackers Guide to the Galaxy!) >Mairead > > >>> grant-jenkins@UTULSA.EDU 08/02/07 1:42 PM >>> >Dear List, > >I'm compiling as comprehensive a list as I can of bookstores in North >America and the UK that carry good selections of or hold >readings/signings in experimental/innovative poetry, poetics, and poetry > >criticism. Please backchannel. Once I compile the list, I will make it > >available to everyone online. Thanks for your help! > >Best, > >Grant >-- > >G. Matthew Jenkins >Director of the Writing Program >Faculty of English Language & Literature >The University of Tulsa >Tulsa, OK 74104 >918.631.2573 charles alexander / chax press fold the book inside the book keep it open always read from the inside out speak then Chax Press 520-620-1626 (studio) 520-275-4330 (cell) chax@theriver.com chax.org 650 E. 9th St. Tucson, AZ 85705 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 22:29:10 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: Re: Why the Appeal of Woody Allen? Here's why: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gee, Woody Allen? Only one bad film?...I hope you're talking about The Curse of the Jade Scorpion b/c it doesn't really get any worse than that...as if slobbering over one way-too-young-for-his-libido chickie at home wasn't enough, he had to cast himself as ubermensch-stud yet again charming a sweet young thing into pretending he's hot man-meat...thank god for scripts which are kinder than the gods to old men like woody...making pretty girls coo unfathomable sentiments.... I think people still discuss him and see him because he IS funny quite often...the Tolstoy send ups and such...and I guess when he matured it was interesting to watch him explore/adopt the theme of amorality (with movies like Crimes & Misdemeanors), which I think paralleled his own life, and his embracing of Nietzschean ideas he had once mocked.... Manhattan is still a great big silvery kiss for New York and I think it's still a beautiful work, it really holds up. Go, Diane! He seems perfectly fine with making really schlocky films quite often...like The Purple Rose of Cairo....I still like Interiors mostly because it's so fun to watch the way Diane Keaton cottons to all the BIG cliches about how a poet is "supposed" to act and feel....and Maureen Stapleton was fabulous in it....if the ex wife had discovered IKEA she would still be alive and there would be no tragedy in that movie, but tra la.... Side Effects is great bathroom literature...good job, Woody... ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 20:24:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: New de Blog - City stuff Comments: cc: UK POETRY , "Poetryetc: poetry and poetics" Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Found City Signage, Posters, Shop Windows and Commentary: Dog Walks & Portraits You Can Buy a Frida Kahlo Skate Board! =B3Hot Art=B2 - San Francisco Eros Meets Stencil Art - Dolores Park http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ Enjoy, Stephen=20 If you missed it: Walking Theory Junction Press (84 pages, $12) www.junctionpress.com ... these are the poems Stephen Vincent has been preparing to write his entire life. They definitely pass the =B3take the top of your head off=B2 test. I went cover to cover without even sitting up. Ron Silliman, Silliman=B9s Blog, http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ (May 20, 2007) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 23:51:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Radio, fossils, sound, abjection MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Radio, fossils, sound, abjection Some extremely old (crystal) radio equipment I'll be working with in New York and West Virginia: The cylinders are the oldest - they're called a 'loose coupler' - this is probably an 'Arlington' type and is an adjustable inductor used for tuning. I think the date is between 1912-1914 which is extremely old for radios. The earphones are newer, but I'm not sure how new, since I have a Western Electric 1903 linesman telephone set (I showed it to you ) that I has roughly the same design. So probably around the same time. The 'box' is a tunable spherical inductor - I have no idea how to use this (yet; I do have schematics back in Brooklyn); I'm guessing the date is between 1915-1919 at the latest. So all of this stuff is extremely early. The cat whisker and galena crystal mounted on the loose coupler is much later; I'm guessing the 50s or so. The loose coupler would have attached to elements spread out on a bench - there weren't any 'sets' that I know of from this period, although I may well be wrong. In other words, this is a more modern crystal that someone attached to the board to complete the set. I want to set all of this up with an extremely long wire antenna; I don't think it will be that difficult and I'll probably have the thing running in a week or so after returning to NY. The eventual idea would be to record the roar of the world, as well as VLF signals, and then to study the result with a modern signal analyzer, either hardware or software. Now part of the theory here - again, thinking of mirror as digital - and then one might think of sound and its reflections as neither or both digital and analog - 'uncanny': Sound always within the imminence of presence - the same sound or granularity whether present nearby or at a distance - echo etc. gives an indication of distance (as if there were a 'distance function), but it's a 'spread' of the original which is always already spread (in time). The original is always present. The original is always present. Sound is always interior and exterior, it relates to abjection (as in opposition to the mirror (stage)); it's second person, it speaks within the body, it's a 'voice in the head' - the mirror on the other hand is all exteriority, purification - Echoes are uncanny - they're a dislocation of granularity; at the same time they preserve it as a kernel (within an aura). - They re/present the kernel as if it were within the abject. The visible has no aura. Radio: http://www.asondheim.org/radio1.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/radio2.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/radio3.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/radio4.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/radio5.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/radio6.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/radio7.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/radio8.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/radio8.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/radio10.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/radio11.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/radio12.jpg Then there are two fossils of interest - these are belemites that seem to be mating. (These were found in the Denver Public Library marble!) http://www.asondheim.org/fossil1.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/fossil2.jpg ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 00:27:13 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nathaniel Siegel Subject: 2,117 days of silence: a visual presentation Aug 1-Aug 19 2007 the Art Wall BPC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 PRESS RELEASE=20 August 1, 2007=20 The artist Nathaniel Siegel has created an installation on the Art Wall at=20 The Bowery Poetry Club: =E2=80=9C2,117 days of silence: a visual presentati= on.=E2=80=9D=20 To mark the 20th anniversary of ACT-UP New York City, the artist has=20 gathered documentary evidence of the first mention of AIDS in the New York=20= Times=20 (July 3, 1981) =E2=80=9CRARE CANCER SEEN IN 41 HOMOSEXUALS=E2=80=9D by Lawre= nce K. Altman;=20 and a transcript of President Ronald Reagan=E2=80=99s first public statement= of the=20 word =E2=80=9CAIDS=E2=80=9D on April 1, 1987 at a Luncheon for Members of th= e College of=20 Physicians in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.=20 Reagan=E2=80=99s inaction inspired the original poster of SILENCE =3D DEATH=20= in 1986.=20 A copy of that original poster is also on view.=20 Using calendar=E2=80=99s of the years 1981 to 1989, the artist visually pres= ents =20 those days of silence. The calendar=E2=80=99s presented are from the artist= =E2=80=99s collection=20 and are representative of images that would be available to gay men in the=20= =E2=80=98 80=E2=80=99s.=20 ACT-UP New York City notes on their website that in 1987 the year Reagan=20 first said AIDS: 41,027 persons are dead and 71,176 persons diagnosed with=20= AIDS=20 in the U.S.=20 Today, in New York City, there is no public school education of ways to =20 prevent the transmission of sexually transmitted diseases including the prop= er =20 use of condom=E2=80=99s and their effectiveness in preventing the spread of=20= HIV and =20 AIDS.=20 Today, the current administration=E2=80=99s abstinence programs regarding =20 discussions of sexual activity among teenagers and young adults amounts to t= he same=20 SILENCE =3DDEATH scenario for our Lesbian Gay Bisexual Trans-gendered and S= traight=20 Youth : 20 years after we first learned about AIDS and effective ways to=20 prevent infection with the proper use of condoms.=20 On Friday August 3, 2007, the Bowery Poetry Club will host an opening=20 reception for the artist from 6pm to 7pm. The Bowery Poetry Club is locate= d at 308=20 Bowery between Houston and Bleecker on the Lower East Side of New York City= =20 across from CBGB=E2=80=99s. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL a= t=20 http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 00:16:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rebecca Weaver Subject: some TC lit folks ok+ bergman In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 hello all, was on my way to a twin cities book festival meeting (rain taxi, and everyone there ok) when the bridge went down, saw the smoke from the truck fire obscuring the mpls. skyline from the Lake street bridge. the reports of missing and casualties is lower than they projected last night, though the divers are still looking in the cars through the day and into the next week. can't tell you what a shock it is, to have traveled that bridge so many times. A physicist friend of mine works in a lab at the base of the bridge. she'd left early yesterday to help a friend move. the building, which houses a particle accelerator, was ok, and they're now using it for recovery operations. so far, haven't heard of anyone in the TC lit community who was involved or near the bridge. also can't describe the gratitude I feel for the concern here on the list for all here. thank you *all* for your thoughts and good wishes. if you're looking to donate, check out www.kstp.com and the red cross. on a lighter note, to follow the bergman thread, for those of you who turn to DVDs of old tv show for comfort, from Northern Exposure: Grandma Woody: "The thing that's so amazing about Bergman, aside from his terrific Swedish gulit . . . is he doesn't try to explain away the apparent meaninglessless of life. His films are not mere quietist exercises anymore than they're, uh, pat expressions of radical subjectivism . . ." Ed Chigliak: "yeah . . ." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 22:35:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jennifer Karmin Subject: JOB: Creative Time MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Creative Time http://www.creativetime.org New York City’s veteran and vanguard public arts presenter, seeks an enthusiastic individual with a unique skill set: a people person who is equally at ease handling office administration. The Development Assistant is a highly organized multi-tasker who thinks big while managing the smallest details. The ideal candidate will have a passion for the arts, strong interest in event management and donor cultivation, and a desire to work in a lively and fast-paced environment. The Development Assistant reports to the Directors of Individual and Institutional Giving to support all aspects of organizational fundraising. Primary responsibilities include: Planning and executing all fundraising events; Providing major support for Creative Time’s annual gala; Managing entry-level individual membership program, securing new members and renewing existing members; Drafting select foundation grants and reports; Managing departmental interns. Day to day responsibilities include mailings and correspondence, scheduling meetings, meticulously maintaining database development records, and tracking all donations and gifts. Requirements: BA required, previous development and special events experience preferred. Candidate must be flexible, highly organized, detail oriented, and a strategic, self-directed, team player. Must be computer proficient, and possess effective writing and impeccable editing skills. Regular work hours are 10-6, and the Development Assistant must also manage after-hours development events and attend all Creative Time programs and events. Salary: $30K. Full health benefits after three months. Attractive vacation package. Application Materials: Please submit application materials by email OR snail mail (NOT BOTH). Required materials include a resume, cover letter with references, and 2 Writing Samples with creative flair (preferably 1 letter and one narrative) to: Heather Peterson Deputy Director Creative Time 307 Seventh Avenue, Suite 1904 New York, NY 10001 Or email jobs@creativetime.org No calls please. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. http://travel.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 08:15:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Waber Subject: Proposal to reboot and de-cruft US Copyright Law Comments: To: announce MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii from: http://www.boingboing.net/2007/08/02/proposal_to_reboot_a.html Proposal to reboot and de-cruft US Copyright Law Pam Samuelson is one of the most important copyright scholars in the world, someone respected by players on all sides of the debate, and she has just published a paper modestly entitled "Preliminary Thoughts on Copyright Reform." "Preliminary Thoughts" is a brisk and readable 16-page paper that traces the origin of the present, 200+ page copyright frankenstatute, a law that has been amended 20 times since it was codified in 1976, so that it can barely be understood by experts, let alone by laypeople. However, laypeople are ever-more under its jurisdiction, since practically everything we do on the Internet involves making copies. So Pam wants to revisit copyright, redraft it from the start, refactoring it like a Wikipedia article that has grown too large and weird to be properly understood. This is a capital idea, and her very concrete suggestions set out both a plan of attack and a set of principles that would make copyright safe for the age of the Internet. "By focusing on these core elements of copyright, I do not mean to suggest that nothing but these elements should be in a model copyright law or principles document. Yet perhaps anything else nominated for inclusion in the model law or principles should have to be accompanied by a justification as to why it needs to be there, and why it should not be achieved through common law evolution of copyright law by judges or delegated to an administrative rule-making process.102" "A model copyright law should also be written in plain English so ordinary people, and not just the high priests of copyright, can understand what it means and the normative reason that it should be part and parcel of the basic statutory framework.103 A model copyright law should also articulate the purposes that it seeks to achieve and offer some guidance about how competing interests should be balanced, perhaps through a series of comments on the model law or principles.104 " PDF Link: http://craphound.com/PreliminaryThoughts.pdf ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 06:25:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Birthday Readings In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Unabashedly, today is my birthday! I'll be making my way to Sidewalk Cafe tonight to hear the folks below sing or say their poetry, including Ed Berrigan, who was also born on this day! Tomorrow night, Saturday, I'll be reading in wonderful company at Cake Shop (see schedule below) -- And big thanks to David Kirschenbaum for putting this shindig, tirelessly, together -- the East Village will have no shortage of poets this weekend ! FRIDAY - AUGUST 3, 7:30 P.M. Sidewalk Café 94 Ave. A, NYC free with a two-drink minimum Readings and musical performances -- 7:30 p.m.-Lauren Russell 7:45 p.m.-Mark Lamoureux 8:00 p.m.-Rachel Lipson (music) 8:30 p.m.-Joanna Fuhrman 9:00 p.m.-I Feel Tractor 9:30 p.m.-Thomas Devaney 9:50 p.m.-The Passenger Pigeons (né The Sparrows) 10:35 p.m.-David Baratier 11:00 p.m.-The Leader 12:00 a.m.-Nan and the Charley Horses Directions: F/V to 2nd Ave., L to 1st Ave. Venue is at E.6th St. SATURDAY - AUGUST 4, 11:00 A.M., 5:00 P.M. Cakeshop 152 Ludlow St. -- NYC 11:00 a.m. 4th Annual Small, Small Press Fair - Free 5:00 p.m. Political poets and The Fugs, Village Fugs live $5 5:15 p.m.-Amy King 5:30 p.m.-Nathaniel Siegel 5:45 p.m.-Christina Strong 6:00 p.m.-Ian Wilder 6:15 p.m.-Frank Sherlock 6:30 p.m.-CAConrad 6:50 p.m.-Greg Fuchs 7:05 p.m.-Kristin Prevallet 7:20 p.m.-Eliot Katz 7:35 p.m.-Rodrigo Toscano and his Collapsible Poetics Theater 7:55 p.m.-The Fugs, Village Fugs. Directions: F/V to 2nd Ave. Venue is bet. Stanton and Rivington sts. ** Organized by Boog City ** http://www.amyking.org/blog --------------------------------- Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 06:29:03 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Re: Birthday Readings In-Reply-To: <745545.78510.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Oh, Eddie Berrigan plays as I Feel Tractor. amy king wrote: Unabashedly, today is my birthday! I'll be making my way to Sidewalk Cafe tonight to hear the folks below sing or say their poetry, including Ed Berrigan, who was also born on this day! Tomorrow night, Saturday, I'll be reading in wonderful company at Cake Shop (see schedule below) -- And big thanks to David Kirschenbaum for putting this shindig, tirelessly, together -- the East Village will have no shortage of poets this weekend ! FRIDAY - AUGUST 3, 7:30 P.M. Sidewalk Café 94 Ave. A, NYC free with a two-drink minimum Readings and musical performances -- 7:30 p.m.-Lauren Russell 7:45 p.m.-Mark Lamoureux 8:00 p.m.-Rachel Lipson (music) 8:30 p.m.-Joanna Fuhrman 9:00 p.m.-I Feel Tractor 9:30 p.m.-Thomas Devaney 9:50 p.m.-The Passenger Pigeons (né The Sparrows) 10:35 p.m.-David Baratier 11:00 p.m.-The Leader 12:00 a.m.-Nan and the Charley Horses Directions: F/V to 2nd Ave., L to 1st Ave. Venue is at E.6th St. SATURDAY - AUGUST 4, 11:00 A.M., 5:00 P.M. Cakeshop 152 Ludlow St. -- NYC 11:00 a.m. 4th Annual Small, Small Press Fair - Free 5:00 p.m. Political poets and The Fugs, Village Fugs live $5 5:15 p.m.-Amy King 5:30 p.m.-Nathaniel Siegel 5:45 p.m.-Christina Strong 6:00 p.m.-Ian Wilder 6:15 p.m.-Frank Sherlock 6:30 p.m.-CAConrad 6:50 p.m.-Greg Fuchs 7:05 p.m.-Kristin Prevallet 7:20 p.m.-Eliot Katz 7:35 p.m.-Rodrigo Toscano and his Collapsible Poetics Theater 7:55 p.m.-The Fugs, Village Fugs. Directions: F/V to 2nd Ave. Venue is bet. Stanton and Rivington sts. ** Organized by Boog City ** http://www.amyking.org/blog --------------------------------- Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 09:44:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: Birthday Readings Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline HAPPY BIRTHDAY MS LEO!!!!!! Mairead >>> amyhappens@yahoo.com 08/03/07 9:25 AM >>> Unabashedly, today is my birthday! I'll be making my way to Sidewalk = Cafe tonight to hear the folks below sing or say their poetry, including = Ed Berrigan, who was also born on this day! =20 Tomorrow night, Saturday, I'll be reading in wonderful company at Cake = Shop (see schedule below) -- =20 And big thanks to David Kirschenbaum for putting this shindig, tirelessly= , together -- the East Village will have no shortage of poets this = weekend ! =20 FRIDAY - AUGUST 3, 7:30 P.M. =20 Sidewalk Caf=C3=83=C2=A9 94 Ave. A, NYC free with a two-drink minimum =20 Readings and musical performances --=20 =20 7:30 p.m.-Lauren Russell 7:45 p.m.-Mark Lamoureux 8:00 p.m.-Rachel Lipson (music) 8:30 p.m.-Joanna Fuhrman 9:00 p.m.-I Feel Tractor 9:30 p.m.-Thomas Devaney 9:50 p.m.-The Passenger Pigeons (n=C3=83=C2=A9 The Sparrows) 10:35 p.m.-David Baratier 11:00 p.m.-The Leader 12:00 a.m.-Nan and the Charley Horses =20 Directions: F/V to 2nd Ave., L to 1st Ave. Venue is at E.6th St. =20 =20 SATURDAY - AUGUST 4, 11:00 A.M., 5:00 P.M. =20 Cakeshop 152 Ludlow St. -- NYC =20 11:00 a.m. 4th Annual Small, Small Press Fair - Free =20 5:00 p.m. Political poets and The Fugs, Village Fugs live $5 =20 5:15 p.m.-Amy King 5:30 p.m.-Nathaniel Siegel 5:45 p.m.-Christina Strong 6:00 p.m.-Ian Wilder 6:15 p.m.-Frank Sherlock 6:30 p.m.-CAConrad 6:50 p.m.-Greg Fuchs 7:05 p.m.-Kristin Prevallet 7:20 p.m.-Eliot Katz 7:35 p.m.-Rodrigo Toscano and his Collapsible Poetics Theater 7:55 p.m.-The Fugs, Village Fugs. =20 Directions: F/V to 2nd Ave. Venue is bet. Stanton and Rivington sts. =20 ** Organized by Boog City ** =20 http://www.amyking.org/blog =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 --------------------------------- Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user = panel and lay it on us. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 10:11:12 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: Boog Festival on Sunday MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Amy didn't mention the last day of the Boog Festival, which is going to be = especially good: =20 SUNDAY AUGUST 5, 1:30 P.M., 3:45 P.M.=20 Bowery Poetry Club 308 Bowery NYC $5 1:30 p.m.=20 =20 The Future of Small Press Publishing =20 curated and moderated by Mitch Highfil l=20 featuring David Baratier, editor Pavement Saw Press (Columbus, Ohio) Bob Hershon, co-editor Hanging Loose Press Brenda Iijima, editor Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs (Brooklyn) Jill Stengel, editor a+bend press (Davis, Calif.) =20 =20 Readings and musical performances =20 3:45 p.m.-The Poetics Orchestra =20 4:15 p.m.-Kimberly Lyons =20 4:30 p.m.-Gary Sullivan=20 4:45 p.m.-Brenda Iijima =20 =20 5:00 p.m.- break =20 =20 5:15 p.m.-The Poetics Orchestra =20 5:35 p.m.-Jill Stengel =20 5:55 p.m.-Mitch Highfill =20 6:10 p.m.-Nada Gordon =20 6:25 p.m.-Sean Cole =20 =20 Directions: F/V to 2nd Ave., 6 to BleeckerVenue is at E.1st St. _________________________________________________________________ See what you=92re getting into=85before you go there http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=3DTXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview_0507= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 07:36:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: Why the Appeal of Woody Allen? Here's why: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit No, I liked Curse of the Jade Scorpion. The bad film of Allen's I'm thinking of was, I believe, called Celebrity. His other films seem wonderful to me. Mighty Aphrodite, for instance, is a wonderful, possibly underappreciated film. Women may have some reason to disapprove of Allen's private life. But what that has to do with his films, I'm not so sure. Admittedly, some of his later films take chances with some spillover between his life and his art. Even his latest, London-based, noncomedic film which I reviewed, called Match Point, if I remember correctly, was an extremely well-made and compelling film. I don't expect to change any minds with this posting. But if someone checks out Mighty Aphrodite on DVD or whatever, I will have accomplished something. Regards, Tom Savage "W.B. Keckler" wrote: Gee, Woody Allen? Only one bad film?...I hope you're talking about The Curse of the Jade Scorpion b/c it doesn't really get any worse than that...as if slobbering over one way-too-young-for-his-libido chickie at home wasn't enough, he had to cast himself as ubermensch-stud yet again charming a sweet young thing into pretending he's hot man-meat...thank god for scripts which are kinder than the gods to old men like woody...making pretty girls coo unfathomable sentiments.... I think people still discuss him and see him because he IS funny quite often...the Tolstoy send ups and such...and I guess when he matured it was interesting to watch him explore/adopt the theme of amorality (with movies like Crimes & Misdemeanors), which I think paralleled his own life, and his embracing of Nietzschean ideas he had once mocked.... Manhattan is still a great big silvery kiss for New York and I think it's still a beautiful work, it really holds up. Go, Diane! He seems perfectly fine with making really schlocky films quite often...like The Purple Rose of Cairo....I still like Interiors mostly because it's so fun to watch the way Diane Keaton cottons to all the BIG cliches about how a poet is "supposed" to act and feel....and Maureen Stapleton was fabulous in it....if the ex wife had discovered IKEA she would still be alive and there would be no tragedy in that movie, but tra la.... Side Effects is great bathroom literature...good job, Woody... ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour --------------------------------- Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 08:37:06 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve russell Subject: WHY DOES WOODY ALLEN EXIST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit the guy's an uneven filmmaker. when he was learning how to make films, and trying to be funny, he usually managed to entertain. the bourgeoisie angst of so many of his films get tiresome. Bullets over Broadway was a good movie. Allen seems best when he's not straining to become an American Bergman. --------------------------------- Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 12:57:41 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: FW: New from Longhouse ~ Summer 2007 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 13:45:49 -0400> To: > From: poetry@sover.net> Subje= ct: New from Longhouse ~ Summer 2007> > Bob Arnold's Woodburners We Recomm= end: Dog Days 2007> > Now online at web-site: > > http://www.longhousepoetr= y.com/woodburnersnow.html> > ------> > New ~ Every Month is Poetry Month at= Longhouse!> Fresh Summer Titles Now Available> > Joanne Kyger> Ursula K. L= e Guin> Rae Armantrout> Leslie Scalapino> Elizabeth Robinson> Jeffery Beam>= J. D. Whitney> Jane Wodening> Cralan Kelder> Alex Caldiero> > Plus an upd= ate of our titles published since January 2007> > Now online ~ Please visit= > > http://www.LonghousePoetry.com/longhouse2007.html> > ------> > Poetry B= ookshop & Origin! available at> > Bob & Susan Arnold> Longhouse, Publishers= & Booksellers> 1604 River Road> Guilford, Vermont 05301> > our web-site: = http://www.LonghousePoetry.com> > See Doubles, Wish to Add A Friend to the= List or Be Removed ? Please > E-mail us. Thanks! _________________________________________________________________ Recharge--play some free games. Win cool prizes too! http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=3DCLUB_wlmailtextlink= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 13:41:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: CFP: new Sixties Journal from Routledge MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit each decade more or less begins in middle of preceeding one in the case of the 60's it begain around 63 as we interpret it and ended around 73 as we saw it then On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 10:26:21 -0700 Catherine Daly writes: > it is the long sixties, so it includes the 50s and 70s; Barry S is > saying > that this is the late modern period > > just like the long sixteenth century is the former baroque period > called the > early modern period > > actually this sort of jockeying for position & "new areas" seems > like > academia being entrepreneurial > > -- > All best, > Catherine Daly > c.a.b.daly@gmail.com > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 15:14:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: Advanced Review Copies -- RHODE ISLAND NOTEBOOK (Dalkey Archive Press) Comments: To: Martin Riker , Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics , BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" , ILSTUCREATIVEWRITING-L@listserv.ilstu.edu, HumPo@googlegroups.com, ENGDEP-L@LISTSERV.ilstu.edu, ImitaPo Memebers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-UB-Relay: (smtp3.ilstu.edu) X-PM-Spam-Prob: : 7% Advanced Review Copies of *Rhode Island Notebook* by Gabriel Gudding are now available. 436 pages. Publication Date: Nov. 23, 2007. Perfect bound copies (in advance uncorrected galley) will be sent to interested reviewers. For a review copy, please query Martin Riker, riker@dalkeyarchive.com. Or write to him at Dalkey Archive Press, University of Illinois, 605 E. Springfield Ave MC-475, Champaign, IL 61820, USA. Jacket copy: “Not since *On the Road* has a book been so thoroughly of the road. *Rhode Island Notebook*--written in Gudding's Toyota during twenty-six roundtrips between Illinois and Rhode Island—-chronicles the breakup of a marriage and the separation of a father and daughter. At turns angry, comic, kitschy, and lyrical, this book-length poem is an exorcism of violence both historical and personal. Ultimately intended as a gift for the driver's daughter, the book also includes essays on literary narcissism and dung; radio broadcasts; a surreal attack on Nancy Reagan; much about Iraq; and the story of one man's friendship with the Shenango River.” Blurbs on jacket: “Rhode Island Notebook is a modern/postmodern epic as a poem-including-everything. An incredibly human/humane book at bottom, it is also Gudding’s road of excess, as Blake once had it, leading him (& us) to the palace of wisdom.” -- Jerome Rothenberg “What might have been an experiment in conceptual writing has emerged into an exhilaration that makes me glad I’m still alive, in the midst of critique and highways. This is the first 21st-century classic.” –- Alan Sondheim Sections, poems, essays from this book were first published in New American Writing, Jacket, Aufgabe, LIT, Action Yes, MiPoesias, Salt Hill, VeRT, L’Bourgeoizine, Mandorla:Nueva Escritura de Las Américas, Spoon River Poetry Review, Court Green, Backwards City, Counterpath Online, and in the anthologies, Poetry 30: Thirtysomething American Thirtysomething Poets, The Other Voices International Poetry Project, and Cadence of Hooves: A Celebration of Horses. A précis of the book will be placed on my website in a week's time: http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 16:17:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tisa Bryant Subject: Re: some TC lit folks ok+ bergman In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rebecca, I've never seen Northern Exposure, but that cracked me up! Thank you. And I am glad to hear that everyone, as far as you know, is okay in the literary TC. Tisa ?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@ When you ain't got no money, you gotta get an attitude. Richard Pryor ?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@ On Aug 3, 2007, at 1:16 AM, Rebecca Weaver wrote: > hello all, > > was on my way to a twin cities book festival meeting (rain taxi, and > everyone there ok) when the bridge went down, saw the smoke from the > truck fire obscuring the mpls. skyline from the Lake street bridge. > the reports of missing and casualties is lower than they projected > last night, though the divers are still looking in the cars through > the day and into the next week. > > can't tell you what a shock it is, to have traveled that bridge so > many times. A physicist friend of mine works in a lab at the base of > the bridge. she'd left early yesterday to help a friend move. the > building, which houses a particle accelerator, was ok, and they're now > using it for recovery operations. > > so far, haven't heard of anyone in the TC lit community who was > involved or near the bridge. > > also can't describe the gratitude I feel for the concern here on the > list for all here. thank you *all* for your thoughts and good wishes. > > if you're looking to donate, check out www.kstp.com and the red cross. > > > on a lighter note, to follow the bergman thread, for those of you who > turn to DVDs of old tv show for comfort, from Northern Exposure: > > Grandma Woody: "The thing that's so amazing about Bergman, aside from > his terrific Swedish gulit . . . is he doesn't try to explain away the > apparent meaninglessless of life. His films are not mere quietist > exercises anymore than they're, uh, pat expressions of radical > subjectivism . . ." > > Ed Chigliak: "yeah . . ." > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 10:19:55 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabrielle Welford Subject: Bees, Colony Collapse Disorder and _Adbusters_ MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT more on bees... ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Orton" To: Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 4:44 AM > Hello all: > Try to read an interesting article by Eric Rumble in the latest issue > (Aug. - Sept. 2007, #73) of _Adbusters_ magazine called "Monotech: > What agribusiness has done to the honeybee", where Sharon Labchuk and > others are interviewed about what is called Colony Collapse Disorder > (CCD). Apparently about one third of commercial bees colonies in the > United States were lost last winter. Sharon, who is an organic > beekeeper, shows how industrial agriculture and commercial beekeeping > have created larger bees in the pursuit of more honey and of course > more money. The larger bees are more vulnerable to disease and > infections. As we should know by now, there is "no free lunch" for > humans in their interaction with the natural world. See this reference: > http://adbusters.org/the_magazine/73/Monotech_What_agribusiness_has_done_to_ the_honeybee.html > > "The commercial beekeeping industry is just a cog in the big > industrial wheel," says Sharon Labchuk, leader of the provincial > Green Party in Prince Edward Island, Canada, and a small-scale > organic beekeeper. "The industrial agriculture model has destroyed > pollinating insects through its chemicals and through its clear > cutting of forests and plowing under the prairies. It's destroyed > habitat for not only insects, but for everything else that would > normally live in those kinds of ecosystems. We've destroyed the > natural world within the area that we've killed, and we've also > destroyed the vicinity through chemical use." > > For the Earth, > David > > "The earth does not belong to humans." - _Arne Naess, Deep Ecology > for the 21st Century_, p.74 > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Visit the Green Web Home Page at: > http://home.ca.inter.net/~greenweb/ > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > _______________________________________________ > Ecopolitics mailing list > Ecopolitics@lists.opn.org > http://www.lists.opn.org/mailman/listinfo/org.opn.lists.ecopolitics > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.2/933 - Release Date: 8/2/2007 2:22 PM > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Economics-Hawaii" group. To post to this group, send email to Economics-Hawaii@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to Economics-Hawaii-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Economics-Hawaii?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 15:42:55 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Simon DeDeo Subject: rhubarb is susan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed One new post up at rhubarb is susan this week -- "silence == freedom?" -- on langpo and information theory. Find it at: http://rhubarbissusan.blogspot.com/2007/08/silencefreedom.html http://rhubarbissusan.blogspot.com/ Thanks for tuning in, Simon ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 16:34:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: WHY DOES WOODY ALLEN EXIST In-Reply-To: <437516.47698.qm@web52412.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please name an "even" filmmaker (or poet or novelist or playwright or anything else). Hal "Can't stop the dancing chicken." Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Aug 3, 2007, at 10:37 AM, steve russell wrote: > the guy's an uneven filmmaker. when he was learning how to make > films, and trying to be funny, he usually managed to entertain. the > bourgeoisie angst of so many of his films get tiresome. Bullets > over Broadway was a good movie. Allen seems best when he's not > straining to become an American Bergman. > > --------------------------------- > Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from > someone who knows. > Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 17:56:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tisa Bryant Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007)] In-Reply-To: <1D14D39834BF46C29E6F188541177D36@NilanjanPC> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I refrained from listing any more directors than I did! I have also had a hard time accepting the cinematic genius of DW =20 Griffith because of the racist narrative he was putting forward using =20= it. Other people are able to make the needed separations in order to =20= see; to say he offends me isn't saying much. For me BIRTH OF A NATION =20= is a feature-length overlay in assaultive practices, and I've never =20 bothered to see anything else he's made because of it. But seeing DJ =20= Spooky's REBIRTH OF A NATION at a special screening in Providence =20 allowed me to see and understand his craft, in terms of what he, =20 technically, was doing with the camera and its cinematic, not national =20= narrative, effects, though we're still (not) reckoning with where the =20= twain did and still meet, on screens around the world. I finally =20 watched all three hours of it two years ago. I was still infuriated, =20= but then I was like, "Oh. That's an iris shot." Still, my response to =20= that as-yet-unspoken call to Griffith was the oft-unappreciated Oscar =20= Micheaux. I do, however, love Steve Erickson's novel invocation of =20 Griffith and cinema, DAYS BETWEEN STATIONS. Though I've seen works from all the directors on your list of omissions =20= (except Ghatak and Sen, so I'm on the move), Chaplin, for instance, =20 isn't part of my body because I've spent scant time watching his films, =20= my four-year tenure at Modern Times Bookstore and left-leaning politics =20= notwithstanding. All the Buster Keaton I've seen in my life has been =20= during a meza plate lunch at Olive Tree on MacDougal & W. 3rd. Busby =20= Berkeley: I've seen "That's Entertainment" profiles on him, then the =20 obvious references to him in Matthew Barney's CREMASTER cycle. If =20 anything, I see for myself a need to revisit these works, since I may =20= simply be having some psycho-trigger issues around all American silent =20= films, thanks to Griffith. This gets conflated into what I see as the =20= aesthetic *scariness* of silent films: contrast, frames per second and =20= jerky motion, mouths moving with no sound, etc. Unintentional =20 eeriness. I saw NOSFERATU as a child at Camp Lapham when I was 8. =20 Keaton's makeup freaks me out. Then, in terms of the gaze, I can't =20 comfortably project myself into that (or the majority of cinematic) =20 landscape(s); it's not *my* neck that cranes back for a kiss from X =20 leading man, nor am I that man, though a project of my own version of =20= PURPLE ROSE OF CAIRO, for instance (what happens when a 1980s black =20 girl steps into a circa 1939 movie) could be very interesting. I do =20 love Julie Dash's short film, ILLUSIONS, for engaging in the old =20 movie/identity conversation with panache. Pierre said something about Americans going for foreign films, and I =20= want to comment on that, briefly, and expand on the above, just to say =20= that I must, for continued mental health, allow myself cinematic =20 escapes from the American national narrative as its perpetuated in =20 film, because there are other possibilities for the =20 image-not-as-metaphor, not as racial or Other marker than the Griffith =20= legacy allows. Something about survival, subjectivity and perspective, =20= than simple swooning. We Americans are quite varied in that respect, =20= and, judging from what I've seen from Francophone African filmmakers =20 (and Vietnamese filmmakers, too, I believe), so are the French. Etc. I do swoon over Lubitsch, though, and Cukor, Wilder, Hawks, Huston, =20 Sturges, Vidor. I especially like b/w films that have that =20 glitter-gloss, like THE SWEET SMELL OF SUCCESS, or BORN YESTERDAY. I =20= also love melodramatic films like Sirk's, and those of his ilk, and =20 enjoy the continuum as evidenced in Fassbinder and Todd Haynes, among =20= others. If the Brattle Theatre was film school for me, my mom was film =20= school K-12. Before AMC on cable, it was all about UHF on weekends for =20= old (30s, 40s, 50s) film. It's been a delight to spend time seeing =20 what the rest of the world was up to, cinematically, during those =20 times, dig the cross-pollination, especially during/after WWII. I =20 also loved/hated the Rock Hudson/Doris Day/Bobby Darin-esque romantic =20= romps. To be that carefree.... I was just working on this quote from Tarkovsky, in which he says that =20= people go to the cinema for time, time spent, not had or lost. For an =20= enhanced living experience. So our lists, if we agree with Tarkovsky, are not ridiculous and to be =20= apologized for or silenced, but, yes, Aryanil, the beginnings of a much =20= bigger, deeper conversation. Thanks for starting this! back to work.... Tisa ********************************** To create form out of the nature of our tasks with the methods of our =20= time=97this is our task. = =20 Mies van der Rohe On Aug 1, 2007, at 7:46 PM, Aryanil Mukherjee wrote: > I'm the one to be blamed, I started this. My initial 5, or ok, lets = say > 10, pertained to Bergman's generation. Now we have names > from virtually every age of cinema. What makes me glad is that > from a "silly" naming game we are now into a movie-mood sharing > specific films, personal experiences, nostalgias etc. > > Great names have come up. Talking about American cinema, > we went as far back as Vertov, but sadly no one mentioned > D W Griffith whom I would call the father of modern cinema. > Also, we forgot Charles Chaplin - he made a lot of films here, in =20 > Chicago > and NY. Going around the world, I can't think of a film director = better > known internationally. > > Notable omissions I can think of are - > > Hungary - Zoltan Fabri, Marta Meszaros, Zanussi, > the Czech new wave heros - Milos Forman, Jiri Menzel, Vera Chitilova > France - Louis Malle, Robert Bresson > India - Ritwik Ghatak, Mrinal Sen > Cuba - Tomas Alea > Poland - Roman Polanski > Germany - Volker Schlondroff, Marguerite Von Trotta > Turkey - Yilmaaz Gunay > Iran - Mohsen Makhmalbaf, Zafar Panahi > Brazil - Nelson Pereira > > Aryanil > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tisa Bryant" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 8:07 PM > Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) > > > I just watched L'ECLISSE for the 5th time (I wrote a piece on it; be > out soon), but love the inexplicable actions of THE PASSENGER and > L'AVVENTURA. > > Haven't watched Bergman since last year (AUTUMN SONATA); will return = to > him, "my first film love". I think PERSONA was the first I saw of = his, > at the Brattle Theater in Cambridge, MA. My film school. I remember > one particular evening, at the end of a failed love affair that hadn't > quite ended, I watched three Bergman films (WILD STRAWBERRIES was one) > in a row. But sadly, I've always attempted to watch THE SEVENTH SEAL > late at night, and I've always fallen asleep. He taught me about > light, dark, silence and the layered frame (I think someone said > something about his depth of field, or some suchness). > > Bergman's women...and Woody Allen's, Godard's, Cassavetes', Fellini's, > etc...it's more than amazing, what these women have done for film, in > film, made visible, palpable...in an expression of the inexpressible > (to quote Blonde Redhead, a propos a Vitti), from director to actor. > didn't a book on Monica Vitti just come out? I remember reading a > review in BookForum, I think. > > My "Indelible Imagemakers" list, in no order, hella long, and really, > it could change tomorrow, and well it should; there are at least 20 > filmmakers for my every mood. As for the top whatever, and voting, > etc? Not interested. I'll leave that to some academy. These folks' > works haunt, mark, stay with me, and I keep returning, seeking them = out > for more: > > Antonioni > Bergman > Jean-Pierre Melville > Alain Resnais > Renoir > Fellini > Almodovar > Kubrick > Godard > Kurosawa > Cassavetes > Sembene Ousmane (died last month; was also a novelist) > Bela Tarr > Coppola > Ozu > Jacques Rivette > Billy Wilder > Charles Burnett (and not just for KILLER OF SHEEP) > Satyajit Ray > Flora Gomes (and all the overlooked "African New Wave" filmmakers of > the late 80s -early 90s, along with the "Hong Kong New Wave") > Otto Preminger > Shohei Imamura > Tsai Ming Liang > Chris Marker (I dare!) > Scorcese > Luchino Visconti > Stanley Kwan > Claire Denis > Oscar Micheaux > George Cukor > Chantal Akerman > Nancy Savoca > Fassbinder > Spike Lee > John Sayles > Apichatpong Weerasethakul (let's see, 10 years from now, what's up) > Tarkovsky > Agnes Varda > > It's all so intertextual! That's what makes the ongoing conversation > of cinema so interesting to me. And why the list, really, means > nothing. But I couldn't help it! > > About to watch Pasolini's MAMA ROMA, and Theo Angelopoulos' THE = WEEPING > MEADOW; some buyer's on point at the Brooklyn Public Library. I also > really liked Bertolucci's BEFORE THE REVOLUTION. > > Peace and light to the spirits of Igmar Bergman and Antonioni as they > pass through this world to the next, and much thanks to them for > leaving so much of themselves, and their vision, with us. > > Tisa > > = =A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8= =A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8= =A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=20 > =A8 > =A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8 > Prose is like a window; fiction is like a door. > But it is not uncommon that he who should come in through the door > jumps in through the window. > > MuXin > translated by Toming Jun Liu > > = =A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8= =A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8= =A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=20 > =A8 > =A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8 > On Jul 31, 2007, at 5:20 PM, amy king wrote: > >> John Cassavettes, yes! Someone already wrote Akria Kurosawa, yes? >> >> Anything Krystof Kieslowski. >> >> Dare I throw Chris Marker into the mix? And Wim Wenders? >> >> >> Ruth Lepson wrote: >> and cassavettes & who cd forget 'Nashville' >> http://www.amyking.org/blog >> >> --------------------------------- >> Luggage? GPS? Comic books? >> Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search. >> > > > > --=20 > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.25/926 - Release Date: =20 > 7/29/2007 11:14 PM > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 17:06:29 -0500 Reply-To: bobbyb@uchicago.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bobby Baird Subject: Why Charles Simic Owes William S. Burroughs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I posted a note on my website today that might be of interest to some on this list. Based on an essay Eirik Steinhoff wrote for Chicago Review's sixtieth-anniversary issue, the note describes the peculiar circumstances surrounding the publication of Charles Simic's first poems in 1959, and why, by rights, he owes something of a debt of gratitude to William S. Burroughs. The note can be found here: http://www.digitalemunction.com/wordpress/2007/08/03/why-charles-simic-owes-billy-burroughs/ All best, Bobby Baird -- http://humanities.uchicago.edu/review/ http://www.digitalemunction.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 17:21:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: Re: some TC lit folks ok+ bergman In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Northern Exposure was one of the smartest shows on TV in the early 90s -- I had real hope for pop culture back then, in my yoof! (there's a great episode that parodies Fellini, among others) just put up a map on my blog showing where the bridge is/was in relation to where we live -- I created it for my California relatives, who either don't realize the borders of the Twin Cities are coterminous, or else think we're all crammed into a singularity: a dot on the national weather map.=20 http://minnesotan-ice.blogspot.com/2007/08/where-we-are-where-bridge-was .html (fyi, as the river straightens out along a north-south axis, it becomes the border between Minneapolis and Saint Paul: therefore, we live on the SP side) -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Tisa Bryant Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 15:18 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: some TC lit folks ok+ bergman Rebecca, I've never seen Northern Exposure, but that cracked me up! Thank you. And I am glad to hear that everyone, as far as you know, is okay in the=20 literary TC. Tisa ?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@ When you ain't got no money, you gotta get an attitude. =09 Richard Pryor ?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@ On Aug 3, 2007, at 1:16 AM, Rebecca Weaver wrote: > hello all, > > was on my way to a twin cities book festival meeting (rain taxi, and=20 > everyone there ok) when the bridge went down, saw the smoke from the=20 > truck fire obscuring the mpls. skyline from the Lake street bridge.=20 > the reports of missing and casualties is lower than they projected=20 > last night, though the divers are still looking in the cars through=20 > the day and into the next week. > > can't tell you what a shock it is, to have traveled that bridge so=20 > many times. A physicist friend of mine works in a lab at the base of=20 > the bridge. she'd left early yesterday to help a friend move. the=20 > building, which houses a particle accelerator, was ok, and they're now > using it for recovery operations. > > so far, haven't heard of anyone in the TC lit community who was=20 > involved or near the bridge. > > also can't describe the gratitude I feel for the concern here on the=20 > list for all here. thank you *all* for your thoughts and good wishes. > > if you're looking to donate, check out www.kstp.com and the red cross. > > > on a lighter note, to follow the bergman thread, for those of you who=20 > turn to DVDs of old tv show for comfort, from Northern Exposure: > > Grandma Woody: "The thing that's so amazing about Bergman, aside from=20 > his terrific Swedish gulit . . . is he doesn't try to explain away the > apparent meaninglessless of life. His films are not mere quietist=20 > exercises anymore than they're, uh, pat expressions of radical=20 > subjectivism . . ." > > Ed Chigliak: "yeah . . ." > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 01:00:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: WHY DOES WOODY ALLEN EXIST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit wow all this great director talk's been reduced to Woody a shame On Fri, 3 Aug 2007 08:37:06 -0700 steve russell writes: > the guy's an uneven filmmaker. when he was learning how to make > films, and trying to be funny, he usually managed to entertain. the > bourgeoisie angst of so many of his films get tiresome. Bullets over > Broadway was a good movie. Allen seems best when he's not straining > to become an American Bergman. > > --------------------------------- > Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone > who knows. > Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 20:20:14 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Susan Webster Schultz Subject: Tinfish Net #3: TRANSLATION MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tinfish has a new web-only feature on translation in Tinfish Net #3. Tune in here: http://tinfishpress.com/tinfishnet.html And while you're in the neighborhood, check out our new web-only ABOUT LOOKING, writing about art as well as our new stuff! aloha, Susan http://tinfishpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 23:20:53 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: A Religion for Darwinians? MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit "A Religion for Darwinians?" is a review by H. Allen Orr of Philip Kitcher's recent book "Living with Darwin: Evolution, Design, and the Future of Faith". You can pick it up in the Aug 16/2007 issue of the New York Review of Books. I see a digital copy of the review is already up at http://badscience.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=43906 (the review isn't available for free at http://nybooks.com). The review actually makes me want to buy the book, though that doesn't seem to be the primary aim of the review. The main reason I'd like to read Kitcher's book is the way Orr discusses Kitcher's historical approach to creationist arguments. Not simply to 'intelligent design', but to the lineage of related arguments. And how these arguments were defeated, how they died. Yet how they continue, in different forms. From Orr's review: "Kitcher hopes to accomplish two things in 'Living with Darwin'. One is to survey various versions of creationism and to recount the arguments against them. In doing so, he hopes to present a positive case for Darwinism and "to formulate it in a way that people with no great training in science, history, or philosophy could appreciate." Kitcher's other goal is more ambitious and--given the current noisy debate over science and religion--perhaps more important. He hopes to get at just what it is about Darwinism that's so threattening to religion. Why is it that of all intellectual enterprises, this one "particular piece of science provokes such passions, requires such continual scrutiny, demands such constant reenactment of old battles?" Kitcher believes that unless this question is answered, we are destined to repeat the wars between evolution and creation. In the final part of his book, Kitcher thus offers his diagnosis of the difficulties Darwinism poses to faith and describes the adjustments to religion that he believes are demanded by science." ja http://vispo.com ps: Just as Darwinism has provoked creationist arguments for 150 years, the question of whether there is some part of us that is not machinistic will undoubtedly provoke related debate for the next 150 years (at least). In other words, the question of whether there are thought processes of which humans are capable and computers are not is a similarly controversial issue. But while Darwinism has primarily provoked religious people, the human/machine issue seems to provoke a broader audience who believes that machines cannot, even in theory, be capable of all human thought processes. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 02:49:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Aero Service: Blurred visual and diegetic codes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Aero Service: Blurred visual and diegetic codes "No. T os t pla w ll. oul ar ly t ll you t wasn't or your vo ." http://www.asondheim.org/code1.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/code2.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/code3.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/code4.jpg "A sa lor's w , a sa l-or's star s oul Star-r-r-r-r-r s oul Star-r-r-r-r-r s oul " "It w s som sort o r ittin ost t t l n m t t sl p w llop," r r , w o, s w know,w s r pr nsi ly iv n to sl n on ll o sions. u by N wit s torc r a y or n- stant ar n n , t two a s b an to t r a t maz o corr ors an passa s. T a b o n t s or s v r a m nut s, an w r b nn n to t rath r b w r , w n N stopp su n y ust as t y nt r a ong corr or p rc w t oors, w t t sam monotonous r u ar ty as t ot rs. x n u s t n t w n o an y , an r w rc sw y nto mbrasur o a oorway as so. (From "The Dreadnought Boys on Aero Service," Captain Wilbur Lawton, 1912, transformed into code book by "Sam Rowe - 1942".) Part of code cipher given after the last: A B C D+41 E+34 F+40 G+0 H+35 I+40 J+24 K+47 L+25 M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 08:00:00 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: new Sixties journal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Steve: How about: Each decade begins in the middle of itself. Thus, "the 60s" were 1965-1975. At least that's the way I remember (or = don't remember) them. Best, Joel Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 13:41:11 -0400 From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: CFP: new Sixties Journal from Routledge each decade more or less begins in middle of preceeding one in the case of the 60's it begain around 63 as we interpret it and ended around 73 =20 as we saw it then On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 10:26:21 -0700 Catherine Daly writes: > it is the long sixties, so it includes the 50s and 70s; Barry S is=20 > saying > that this is the late modern period >=20 > just like the long sixteenth century is the former baroque period=20 > called the > early modern period >=20 > actually this sort of jockeying for position & "new areas" seems=20 > like > academia being entrepreneurial >=20 > --=20 > All best, > Catherine Daly > c.a.b.daly@gmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 12:06:33 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tisa Bryant Subject: Re: some TC lit folks ok+ bergman In-Reply-To: <54AA9B41BC35F34EAD02E660901D8A5A0EE69C5D@TLRUSMNEAGMBX10.ERF.THOMSON.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Awesome! And thanks for the map; I've never been to Minneapolis. I made my first real visit to the midwest just last year, Wisconsin (both Kenosha and Wausau), so I'm still pondering the wonder that is Lake Michigan. Question to all: should we be worried that Mark Nowak hasn't said anything about being okay? Did I miss something? ********************************** There is no energy in reproducing life. Stories are not imitations of reality. They create new realities. The difference between creating and reproducing is the difference between painting a tree with broad brush strokes and tracing its outline from a photo. Roberta Allen, Fast Fiction: Creating Fiction In Five Minutes On Aug 3, 2007, at 6:21 PM, Tom W. Lewis wrote: > Northern Exposure was one of the smartest shows on TV in the early 90s > -- I had real hope for pop culture back then, in my yoof! (there's a > great episode that parodies Fellini, among others) > > just put up a map on my blog showing where the bridge is/was in > relation > to where we live -- I created it for my California relatives, who > either > don't realize the borders of the Twin Cities are coterminous, or else > think we're all crammed into a singularity: a dot on the national > weather map. > > http://minnesotan-ice.blogspot.com/2007/08/where-we-are-where-bridge- > was > .html > > (fyi, as the river straightens out along a north-south axis, it becomes > the border between Minneapolis and Saint Paul: therefore, we live on > the > SP side) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] > On Behalf Of Tisa Bryant > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 15:18 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: some TC lit folks ok+ bergman > > Rebecca, > I've never seen Northern Exposure, but that cracked me up! > Thank you. > And I am glad to hear that everyone, as far as you know, is okay in the > literary TC. > > Tisa > > ?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@ > > When you ain't got no money, you gotta get an attitude. > > > Richard Pryor > > ?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@ > > > On Aug 3, 2007, at 1:16 AM, Rebecca Weaver wrote: > >> hello all, >> >> was on my way to a twin cities book festival meeting (rain taxi, and >> everyone there ok) when the bridge went down, saw the smoke from the >> truck fire obscuring the mpls. skyline from the Lake street bridge. >> the reports of missing and casualties is lower than they projected >> last night, though the divers are still looking in the cars through >> the day and into the next week. >> >> can't tell you what a shock it is, to have traveled that bridge so >> many times. A physicist friend of mine works in a lab at the base of >> the bridge. she'd left early yesterday to help a friend move. the >> building, which houses a particle accelerator, was ok, and they're now > >> using it for recovery operations. >> >> so far, haven't heard of anyone in the TC lit community who was >> involved or near the bridge. >> >> also can't describe the gratitude I feel for the concern here on the >> list for all here. thank you *all* for your thoughts and good wishes. >> >> if you're looking to donate, check out www.kstp.com and the red cross. >> >> >> on a lighter note, to follow the bergman thread, for those of you who >> turn to DVDs of old tv show for comfort, from Northern Exposure: >> >> Grandma Woody: "The thing that's so amazing about Bergman, aside from >> his terrific Swedish gulit . . . is he doesn't try to explain away the > >> apparent meaninglessless of life. His films are not mere quietist >> exercises anymore than they're, uh, pat expressions of radical >> subjectivism . . ." >> >> Ed Chigliak: "yeah . . ." >> > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 13:06:31 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: new Sixties journal Comments: To: Joel Weishaus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 for me, the sixties really began with the assasination of JFK and ended with the advent of disco -- but that's just how I remember it -- which must mean I wasn't there -- >On Sat, 4 Aug 2007 08:00:00 -0800 Joel Weishaus wrote: > > Steve: > > How about: Each decade begins in the middle of itself. > > Thus, "the 60s" were 1965-1975. At least that's the way I remember (or don't remember) them. > > Best, > Joel > > > > Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 13:41:11 -0400 > From: "steve d. dalachinsky" > Subject: Re: CFP: new Sixties Journal from Routledge > > each decade more or less begins in middle of preceeding one > in the case of the 60's it begain around 63 as we interpret it and > ended around 73 > as we saw it then > On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 10:26:21 -0700 Catherine Daly > writes: > > it is the long sixties, so it includes the 50s and 70s; Barry S is > > saying > > that this is the late modern period > > > > just like the long sixteenth century is the former baroque period > > called the > > early modern period > > > > actually this sort of jockeying for position & "new areas" seems > > like > > academia being entrepreneurial > > > > -- > > All best, > > Catherine Daly > > c.a.b.daly@gmail.com > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We are enslaved by what makes us free -- intolerable paradox at the heart of speech. --Robert Kelly Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 11:52:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Diane DiPrima Subject: Re: new Sixties journal In-Reply-To: <01b201c7d6b0$83f7ed00$0300a8c0@Weishaus> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Gertrude stein said something like that abt decades in one of her later books. . . > From: Joel Weishaus > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 08:00:00 -0800 > To: > Subject: new Sixties journal > > Steve: > > How about: Each decade begins in the middle of itself. > > Thus, "the 60s" were 1965-1975. At least that's the way I remember (or don't > remember) them. > > Best, > Joel > > > > Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 13:41:11 -0400 > From: "steve d. dalachinsky" > Subject: Re: CFP: new Sixties Journal from Routledge > > each decade more or less begins in middle of preceeding one > in the case of the 60's it begain around 63 as we interpret it and > ended around 73 > as we saw it then > On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 10:26:21 -0700 Catherine Daly > writes: >> it is the long sixties, so it includes the 50s and 70s; Barry S is >> saying >> that this is the late modern period >> >> just like the long sixteenth century is the former baroque period >> called the >> early modern period >> >> actually this sort of jockeying for position & "new areas" seems >> like >> academia being entrepreneurial >> >> -- >> All best, >> Catherine Daly >> c.a.b.daly@gmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 16:14:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: WHY DOES WOODY ALLEN EXIST In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit who is responsible for the marvelous chicken quotation? Halvard Johnson wrote: > Please name an "even" filmmaker (or poet or > novelist or playwright or anything else). > > Hal > > > "Can't stop the dancing chicken." > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard@earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > On Aug 3, 2007, at 10:37 AM, steve russell wrote: > >> the guy's an uneven filmmaker. when he was learning how to make >> films, and trying to be funny, he usually managed to entertain. the >> bourgeoisie angst of so many of his films get tiresome. Bullets over >> Broadway was a good movie. Allen seems best when he's not straining >> to become an American Bergman. >> >> --------------------------------- >> Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone >> who knows. >> Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 16:16:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: some TC lit folks ok+ bergman In-Reply-To: <54AA9B41BC35F34EAD02E660901D8A5A0EE69C5D@TLRUSMNEAGMBX10.ERF.THOMSON.COM> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit at least one of the northern exposure writers was one of a contingent of hampshire college grads (from my era, the 70s) who relocated to homer, alaska, for a # of years after college. i guess he turned his adventure into something substantively creative. sorry, all, i just can't help bragging about hampshire college, my hippie school from way back when...xo, md Tom W. Lewis wrote: > Northern Exposure was one of the smartest shows on TV in the early 90s > -- I had real hope for pop culture back then, in my yoof! (there's a > great episode that parodies Fellini, among others) > > just put up a map on my blog showing where the bridge is/was in relation > to where we live -- I created it for my California relatives, who either > don't realize the borders of the Twin Cities are coterminous, or else > think we're all crammed into a singularity: a dot on the national > weather map. > > http://minnesotan-ice.blogspot.com/2007/08/where-we-are-where-bridge-was > .html > > (fyi, as the river straightens out along a north-south axis, it becomes > the border between Minneapolis and Saint Paul: therefore, we live on the > SP side) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] > On Behalf Of Tisa Bryant > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 15:18 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: some TC lit folks ok+ bergman > > Rebecca, > I've never seen Northern Exposure, but that cracked me up! > Thank you. > And I am glad to hear that everyone, as far as you know, is okay in the > literary TC. > > Tisa > > ?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@ > > When you ain't got no money, you gotta get an attitude. > > > Richard Pryor > > ?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@ > > > On Aug 3, 2007, at 1:16 AM, Rebecca Weaver wrote: > > >> hello all, >> >> was on my way to a twin cities book festival meeting (rain taxi, and >> everyone there ok) when the bridge went down, saw the smoke from the >> truck fire obscuring the mpls. skyline from the Lake street bridge. >> the reports of missing and casualties is lower than they projected >> last night, though the divers are still looking in the cars through >> the day and into the next week. >> >> can't tell you what a shock it is, to have traveled that bridge so >> many times. A physicist friend of mine works in a lab at the base of >> the bridge. she'd left early yesterday to help a friend move. the >> building, which houses a particle accelerator, was ok, and they're now >> > > >> using it for recovery operations. >> >> so far, haven't heard of anyone in the TC lit community who was >> involved or near the bridge. >> >> also can't describe the gratitude I feel for the concern here on the >> list for all here. thank you *all* for your thoughts and good wishes. >> >> if you're looking to donate, check out www.kstp.com and the red cross. >> >> >> on a lighter note, to follow the bergman thread, for those of you who >> turn to DVDs of old tv show for comfort, from Northern Exposure: >> >> Grandma Woody: "The thing that's so amazing about Bergman, aside from >> his terrific Swedish gulit . . . is he doesn't try to explain away the >> > > >> apparent meaninglessless of life. His films are not mere quietist >> exercises anymore than they're, uh, pat expressions of radical >> subjectivism . . ." >> >> Ed Chigliak: "yeah . . ." >> >> ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 17:20:17 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Going to Minneapolis In-Reply-To: <14f395aa2e1c207cfa54ad3cce10cb42@earthlink.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On Aug 4, 2007, at 9:06 AM, Tisa Bryant wrote: > And thanks for the map; I've never been to Minneapolis. What about you folks? I went to Minneapolis sometime in the eighties or early nineties to do some readings and so on. And in 2003, on a baseball trip, I passed THROUGH Minneapolis. You can do that on the highway, so deep in a groove that you can see only the tops of buildings. George Bowering Lost among the signifiers. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 18:09:08 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: barbara jane bermeo Subject: Fwd: Achiote Seeds - Summer 2007 (Pre-Order Now) Comments: To: Poetry Mission , sfbam@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > ACHIOTE SEEDS a chap-journal featuring ALFRED > ARTEAGA, MARINA > GARCIA-VASQUEZ, OSCAR BERMEO, and DOLORES > DORANTES translated by JEN HOFER > > A word from Craig Perez, Achiote Press Editor: > > ACHIOTE PRESS 2007 END OF SUMMER CHAPBOOKS WILL > BE PRINTED AND READY TO SALE > AND SHIP > > since our Spring issues sold out in 3 weeks, > many people were upset at me > for not printing more, especially since the > chaps sold out before i sent out > a mass email announcing their release. so this > time around, i am offering > folks a chance to reserve a copy. if you want > to reserve a copy, all you > have to do is email > meand > let me know. this is not a commitment to > purchase, but only guarantees > availability if you decide to actually purchase > a copy when they are ready > (if you change your mind, no worries). > > so for $12 dollars, you get 2 chaps. the > ACHIOTE SEEDS chapbook, which > features about 10 pages from 4 writers. the > writers for our summer issue > are: > > ALFRED ARTEAGA > > > MARINA GARCIA-VASQUEZ > > OSCAR BERMEO > > DOLORES DORANTES translated by JEN > HOFER > > okay okay stop drooling. we couldnt be more > excited by this lineup. > > our single-author chapbook is Novaless I-XXVI > by NICHOLAS > MANNING > (check out some samples here at > OTOLITHS) > > > > To reserve your copy of ACHIOTE SEEDS, please > email > csperez06[at]gmail[dot]com > > More Achiote Press info here > > ---------- http://barbarajanereyes.com http://poetaensanfrancisco.blog-city.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 20:50:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: WHY DOES WOODY ALLEN EXIST In-Reply-To: <46B4EC20.6080806@umn.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That would be Werner Herzog or one of his writers. Hal "I am no more humble than my talents require." --Oscar Levant Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Aug 4, 2007, at 4:14 PM, Maria Damon wrote: > who is responsible for the marvelous chicken quotation? > > Halvard Johnson wrote: >> Please name an "even" filmmaker (or poet or >> novelist or playwright or anything else). >> >> Hal >> >> >> "Can't stop the dancing chicken." >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> halvard@earthlink.net >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html >> >> >> On Aug 3, 2007, at 10:37 AM, steve russell wrote: >> >>> the guy's an uneven filmmaker. when he was learning how to make >>> films, and trying to be funny, he usually managed to entertain. >>> the bourgeoisie angst of so many of his films get tiresome. >>> Bullets over Broadway was a good movie. Allen seems best when >>> he's not straining to become an American Bergman. >>> >>> --------------------------------- >>> Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from >>> someone who knows. >>> Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 23:24:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: little saucers of rhetoric MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed little saucers of rhetoric http://www.asondheim.org/saucer1.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/saucer2.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/saucer3.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/saucer4.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/saucer5.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/saucer6.jpg if you cannot believe these are true, you are naive if you believe these are true, you truly see through things things as they are are not things as they seem to be to see through things is to understand true conspiracies by definition all conspiracies are true the transparency of these images implies their opacity the world is encrypted to believe otherwise is to live and die on the surface the wise follow themselves no matter where they lead leaders speak other languages conspiracy implies the regularity of the surface surfaces close ranks behind the naive one sees only the tips of signs like icebergs signs emerge at unexpected moments of everyday life the rule of conspiracy: ((( a -> b ) & ( c -> d )) -> (( e -> a ) & ( e -> c ))) the center is the peripheral belief in conspiracy is not belief there are those who do not want you to believe this that there are those who do not want you to believe this makes you important i am important since i have discovered that there are those who do not want you to believe this because i am important you are important because i write this you are important listen: sound, not sight, travels through walls linear sight disrupts the signs revealed by scripture and inscription conspiracy is aural this is an absolute and absolute truth ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 05:54:22 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: UbuWeb Subject: In Barry Bonds I See The Future of Poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2007/08/in_barry_bonds_i_see_the_futur.html In Barry Bonds I See The Future of Poetry The inevitability of Barry Bonds serves notice to all poets invested in the Humanist tradition: your tenure is doomed. Barry Bonds is not only the future of athletics, but he's also emblematic of the future of poetry. More machine than man, chemically enhanced, Bonds is our first mainstream Posthuman public figure. Moving awkwardly, robot-like, festooned with machines -- a barrage of cameras following his every move and enormous noise-canceling headphones to silence the jeers -- he's a media-made technologically-supplemented Frankenstein. We dismiss him a as fraud, but we know in our hearts that his way is the way of the future; regardless, we cheer his accomplishment. We disdain his Posthumanism, but we shall soon come to realize that we created the phenomenon of Barry Bonds. We demand our athletes to be super-human and super-human they shall be. Bonds just points to the fact that being human has ceased to be enough: we demand the precision and complexity of machines, in athletes, in politicians, in business and in the arts. And what we demand, we now have. Barry Bonds has become the embodiment of Posthuman: "the [hypothetical future] present being whose basic capacities so radically exceed those of present humans as to be no longer unambiguously human by our current standards." We react in kind: we deny Bonds his humanness ("He is either unfazed by negativity or internalizes every hostile remark," one newsman recalls) and call him cold, unresponsive, selfish ("'I take care of me,'' Bonds tells reporters). Futurism made flesh, Barry Bonds is a lovechild of William S. Burroughs ("We ourselves are machines") and Andy Warhol ("I want to be a machine"): Bonds' milestone signifies an end to the humanist discourse. In the classic sense of Baudrillard's "The Precession of Simulacra," the idea of Barry Bonds has long preceded the actual event, hence predetermining the outcome. And the outcome is obvious. Barry Bonds is being crucified for the inevitable; he is a martyr for the future. And in the future, just as our children will reminisce about when humans beings still played baseball, we shall reminisce about the time when human beings still wrote poetry for other humans. UbuWeb http://ubu.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool. http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 09:16:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aryanil Mukherjee Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007)] In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Tisa I enjoyed reading your long response to my "sinful" confession. As for the cinematic genius of D.W.Griffith, yes, I meant his technical contributions which were really ground breaking and much needed at that time. His technical contributions must have advanced the art of cinema several years or maybe decades. Likewise, Robert J Flaherty made an unequivocal contribution, I tend to think, with his 1922 documentary Nanook of the North. Satyajit Ray, back in the seventies, said in an interview, " I think what six hundred years of English literature had achieved from Chaucer to Joyce, cinema had covered in sixty years". If that is true, Griffith Flaherty etc. deserve a heartfelt thanks from their successors. Ghatak's films, like Gunay's, might be hard to find. He is an absolutely brilliant, sound and cerebral auteur who would simultaneously overplay with emotions, at times, purposely. A large gamut of his films deal with the partition theme - Partition of a country, a society, culture, disintegrating morality, dilapidating humanism etc. But it is also balanced with hope, with the lust of living on. Many believe, if he had a little luck on his side, was a little more diciplined, a little less alcoholic and much more compromising, Ghatak would have shot into fame even before Ray, in Indian scene. Today he is hardly known in his own country except his state. His films once had a wide Russian audience, also French, George Sadoul was his best connoisseur. Some University libraries here in the US, have him archived- I don't know which ones. The Tarkovsky quote is really poetic and will continue to spark for a long time. Just last night, I was interviewing poet John Ashbery. Many of us have our own special reasons to hate or love his poetry. I have a very deep admiration for his work although I have read him in the recent years only. He is known to have drawn a lot from cross-artistic, multi-aesthetic domains. He was telling me last night that lately he watches movies a lot and is influenced by many younger directors like Guy Maddin, Jorgen Leth etc. I can't explain why, but Ashbery's poem "This Room" have always reminded me of Ingmar Bergman's "Wild Strawberries". That didn't Ashbery, he said, "yes, I think there is a scene in the film where the old Professor enters a room which he seems to remember"....I think it wasn't a room but a mansion-garden where he revisits his younger days. The garden I entered is the reverie of this garden For me, films excite poetry, they let us juggle with our memories (time spent), hand-holding us and at a point we begin to realize we are juggling more than what was ours, other experiences have been thrown into the mix, the cloth we wear, have spun out to cover lives that were not ours. Thanks for providing a little doze of inspiration Aryanil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tisa Bryant" To: Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 5:56 PM Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007)] I refrained from listing any more directors than I did! I have also had a hard time accepting the cinematic genius of DW Griffith because of the racist narrative he was putting forward using it. Other people are able to make the needed separations in order to see; to say he offends me isn't saying much. For me BIRTH OF A NATION is a feature-length overlay in assaultive practices, and I've never bothered to see anything else he's made because of it. But seeing DJ Spooky's REBIRTH OF A NATION at a special screening in Providence allowed me to see and understand his craft, in terms of what he, technically, was doing with the camera and its cinematic, not national narrative, effects, though we're still (not) reckoning with where the twain did and still meet, on screens around the world. I finally watched all three hours of it two years ago. I was still infuriated, but then I was like, "Oh. That's an iris shot." Still, my response to that as-yet-unspoken call to Griffith was the oft-unappreciated Oscar Micheaux. I do, however, love Steve Erickson's novel invocation of Griffith and cinema, DAYS BETWEEN STATIONS. Though I've seen works from all the directors on your list of omissions (except Ghatak and Sen, so I'm on the move), Chaplin, for instance, isn't part of my body because I've spent scant time watching his films, my four-year tenure at Modern Times Bookstore and left-leaning politics notwithstanding. All the Buster Keaton I've seen in my life has been during a meza plate lunch at Olive Tree on MacDougal & W. 3rd. Busby Berkeley: I've seen "That's Entertainment" profiles on him, then the obvious references to him in Matthew Barney's CREMASTER cycle. If anything, I see for myself a need to revisit these works, since I may simply be having some psycho-trigger issues around all American silent films, thanks to Griffith. This gets conflated into what I see as the aesthetic *scariness* of silent films: contrast, frames per second and jerky motion, mouths moving with no sound, etc. Unintentional eeriness. I saw NOSFERATU as a child at Camp Lapham when I was 8. Keaton's makeup freaks me out. Then, in terms of the gaze, I can't comfortably project myself into that (or the majority of cinematic) landscape(s); it's not *my* neck that cranes back for a kiss from X leading man, nor am I that man, though a project of my own version of PURPLE ROSE OF CAIRO, for instance (what happens when a 1980s black girl steps into a circa 1939 movie) could be very interesting. I do love Julie Dash's short film, ILLUSIONS, for engaging in the old movie/identity conversation with panache. Pierre said something about Americans going for foreign films, and I want to comment on that, briefly, and expand on the above, just to say that I must, for continued mental health, allow myself cinematic escapes from the American national narrative as its perpetuated in film, because there are other possibilities for the image-not-as-metaphor, not as racial or Other marker than the Griffith legacy allows. Something about survival, subjectivity and perspective, than simple swooning. We Americans are quite varied in that respect, and, judging from what I've seen from Francophone African filmmakers (and Vietnamese filmmakers, too, I believe), so are the French. Etc. I do swoon over Lubitsch, though, and Cukor, Wilder, Hawks, Huston, Sturges, Vidor. I especially like b/w films that have that glitter-gloss, like THE SWEET SMELL OF SUCCESS, or BORN YESTERDAY. I also love melodramatic films like Sirk's, and those of his ilk, and enjoy the continuum as evidenced in Fassbinder and Todd Haynes, among others. If the Brattle Theatre was film school for me, my mom was film school K-12. Before AMC on cable, it was all about UHF on weekends for old (30s, 40s, 50s) film. It's been a delight to spend time seeing what the rest of the world was up to, cinematically, during those times, dig the cross-pollination, especially during/after WWII. I also loved/hated the Rock Hudson/Doris Day/Bobby Darin-esque romantic romps. To be that carefree.... I was just working on this quote from Tarkovsky, in which he says that people go to the cinema for time, time spent, not had or lost. For an enhanced living experience. So our lists, if we agree with Tarkovsky, are not ridiculous and to be apologized for or silenced, but, yes, Aryanil, the beginnings of a much bigger, deeper conversation. Thanks for starting this! back to work.... Tisa ********************************** To create form out of the nature of our tasks with the methods of our time—this is our task. Mies van der Rohe On Aug 1, 2007, at 7:46 PM, Aryanil Mukherjee wrote: > I'm the one to be blamed, I started this. My initial 5, or ok, lets say > 10, pertained to Bergman's generation. Now we have names > from virtually every age of cinema. What makes me glad is that > from a "silly" naming game we are now into a movie-mood sharing > specific films, personal experiences, nostalgias etc. > > Great names have come up. Talking about American cinema, > we went as far back as Vertov, but sadly no one mentioned > D W Griffith whom I would call the father of modern cinema. > Also, we forgot Charles Chaplin - he made a lot of films here, in Chicago > and NY. Going around the world, I can't think of a film director better > known internationally. > > Notable omissions I can think of are - > > Hungary - Zoltan Fabri, Marta Meszaros, Zanussi, > the Czech new wave heros - Milos Forman, Jiri Menzel, Vera Chitilova > France - Louis Malle, Robert Bresson > India - Ritwik Ghatak, Mrinal Sen > Cuba - Tomas Alea > Poland - Roman Polanski > Germany - Volker Schlondroff, Marguerite Von Trotta > Turkey - Yilmaaz Gunay > Iran - Mohsen Makhmalbaf, Zafar Panahi > Brazil - Nelson Pereira > > Aryanil > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tisa Bryant" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 8:07 PM > Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) > > > I just watched L'ECLISSE for the 5th time (I wrote a piece on it; be > out soon), but love the inexplicable actions of THE PASSENGER and > L'AVVENTURA. > > Haven't watched Bergman since last year (AUTUMN SONATA); will return to > him, "my first film love". I think PERSONA was the first I saw of his, > at the Brattle Theater in Cambridge, MA. My film school. I remember > one particular evening, at the end of a failed love affair that hadn't > quite ended, I watched three Bergman films (WILD STRAWBERRIES was one) > in a row. But sadly, I've always attempted to watch THE SEVENTH SEAL > late at night, and I've always fallen asleep. He taught me about > light, dark, silence and the layered frame (I think someone said > something about his depth of field, or some suchness). > > Bergman's women...and Woody Allen's, Godard's, Cassavetes', Fellini's, > etc...it's more than amazing, what these women have done for film, in > film, made visible, palpable...in an expression of the inexpressible > (to quote Blonde Redhead, a propos a Vitti), from director to actor. > didn't a book on Monica Vitti just come out? I remember reading a > review in BookForum, I think. > > My "Indelible Imagemakers" list, in no order, hella long, and really, > it could change tomorrow, and well it should; there are at least 20 > filmmakers for my every mood. As for the top whatever, and voting, > etc? Not interested. I'll leave that to some academy. These folks' > works haunt, mark, stay with me, and I keep returning, seeking them out > for more: > > Antonioni > Bergman > Jean-Pierre Melville > Alain Resnais > Renoir > Fellini > Almodovar > Kubrick > Godard > Kurosawa > Cassavetes > Sembene Ousmane (died last month; was also a novelist) > Bela Tarr > Coppola > Ozu > Jacques Rivette > Billy Wilder > Charles Burnett (and not just for KILLER OF SHEEP) > Satyajit Ray > Flora Gomes (and all the overlooked "African New Wave" filmmakers of > the late 80s -early 90s, along with the "Hong Kong New Wave") > Otto Preminger > Shohei Imamura > Tsai Ming Liang > Chris Marker (I dare!) > Scorcese > Luchino Visconti > Stanley Kwan > Claire Denis > Oscar Micheaux > George Cukor > Chantal Akerman > Nancy Savoca > Fassbinder > Spike Lee > John Sayles > Apichatpong Weerasethakul (let's see, 10 years from now, what's up) > Tarkovsky > Agnes Varda > > It's all so intertextual! That's what makes the ongoing conversation > of cinema so interesting to me. And why the list, really, means > nothing. But I couldn't help it! > > About to watch Pasolini's MAMA ROMA, and Theo Angelopoulos' THE WEEPING > MEADOW; some buyer's on point at the Brooklyn Public Library. I also > really liked Bertolucci's BEFORE THE REVOLUTION. > > Peace and light to the spirits of Igmar Bergman and Antonioni as they > pass through this world to the next, and much thanks to them for > leaving so much of themselves, and their vision, with us. > > Tisa > > ¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨ ¨ > ¨¨¨¨¨¨¨ > Prose is like a window; fiction is like a door. > But it is not uncommon that he who should come in through the door > jumps in through the window. > > MuXin > translated by Toming Jun Liu > > ¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨ ¨ > ¨¨¨¨¨¨¨ > On Jul 31, 2007, at 5:20 PM, amy king wrote: > >> John Cassavettes, yes! Someone already wrote Akria Kurosawa, yes? >> >> Anything Krystof Kieslowski. >> >> Dare I throw Chris Marker into the mix? And Wim Wenders? >> >> >> Ruth Lepson wrote: >> and cassavettes & who cd forget 'Nashville' >> http://www.amyking.org/blog >> >> --------------------------------- >> Luggage? GPS? Comic books? >> Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search. >> > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.25/926 - Release Date: > 7/29/2007 11:14 PM > -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.4/935 - Release Date: 8/3/2007 5:46 PM ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 09:18:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aryanil Mukherjee Subject: Allen on Bergman In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This week's Time Magazine has a Woody Allen interview where Allen speaks about Bergman. Has anyone read it ? Aryanil ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 21:37:31 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Zimmerman Subject: Re: new Sixties journal Comments: cc: Daniel Zimmerman MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=utf-8; reply-type=original Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I finished my graduate school coursework at SUNY Buffalo in 1971. My first alert to the change from the '60s came when I went to the Rathskeller to look up some friends I hadn't seen in a few months. In the section where, for years, the poets, musicians, painters & sundry freaks had hung since c. '63 (post-Dallas), business majors had moved in; in fact, they seem to have taken over the whole scene. So, weirdly, for me, the shift began at the University. The city hung on for several more years--in fact, a popular query of the time ran, "When will the '70s begin?" (As they say, "be careful what you ask for.") Because I stayed pretty broke untill '77, the '60s lingered on for me. Still, I agree with Aldon about disco as death knell: the week of April 30, 1976, Johnny Taylor's "Disco Lady" topped the pop charts (the first song with disco in the title, I believe); the week of June 10, 1977, John Travolta & Olivia Newton-John hit the top with "You're the one that I want." So America had, basically, 200 years before the shit hit the fan. For me, the '70s meant, pretty much, the Carter years. From Reagan on, catastrophe: a deluge, interrupted briefly by Clinton's finger in the dike, and now tsunamified by W. So: '63-'77, I'd say, for the Sixties; '78-'80 for the Seventies, & '81-now for It Just Don't Matter Any More (at least, at 62, to me; no doubt younger folks will have more acute senses of 'decade' than I do, but it really seems to me that nothing new has happened in a long time). ~ Dan Zimmerman ----- Original Message ----- From: "ALDON L NIELSEN" To: Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 1:06 PM Subject: Re: new Sixties journal > for me, the sixties really began with the assasination of JFK and ended > with > the advent of disco -- but that's just how I remember it -- which must > mean I > wasn't there -- > >>On Sat, 4 Aug 2007 08:00:00 -0800 Joel Weishaus wrote: >> >> Steve: >> >> How about: Each decade begins in the middle of itself. >> >> Thus, "the 60s" were 1965-1975. At least that's the way I remember (or >> don't > remember) them. >> >> Best, >> Joel >> >> >> >> Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 13:41:11 -0400 >> From: "steve d. dalachinsky" >> Subject: Re: CFP: new Sixties Journal from Routledge >> >> each decade more or less begins in middle of preceeding one >> in the case of the 60's it begain around 63 as we interpret it and >> ended around 73 >> as we saw it then >> On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 10:26:21 -0700 Catherine Daly >> writes: >> > it is the long sixties, so it includes the 50s and 70s; Barry S is >> > saying >> > that this is the late modern period >> > >> > just like the long sixteenth century is the former baroque period >> > called the >> > early modern period >> > >> > actually this sort of jockeying for position & "new areas" seems >> > like >> > academia being entrepreneurial >> > >> > -- >> > All best, >> > Catherine Daly >> > c.a.b.daly@gmail.com >> >> >> > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > We are enslaved by > what makes us free -- intolerable > paradox at the heart of speech. > --Robert Kelly > > Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > > Aldon L. Nielsen > Kelly Professor of American Literature > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 09:43:35 -0500 Reply-To: dgodston@sbcglobal.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Godston Subject: shamans, griots, etc. In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I'm doing research on shamans, griots, & the role of orally transmitted poetry in indigenous cultures. Can anyone please recommend any good books that relate to this subject? Jerome Rothenberg's "Technicians of the Sacred: A Range of Poetries from Africa, America, Asia, and Oceania" and Stephen Berg's "The Steel Cricket" are excellent. Thanks, Dan ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 08:29:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander Subject: Re: Going to Minneapolis In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Went to Minneapolis in 1983 for the first time, from Madison Wisconsin where I had begun making books & publishing handmade editions by various writers, to hear Robert Creeley talk & read on the occasion of a major Jim Dine retrospective at the Walker Art Center. Moved to Minneapolis in 1993 (from Tucson Arizona) to direct Minnesota Center for Book Arts, taking Chax Press there for that time and publishing books while there by Kathleen Fraser, Norman Fischer, & Myung Mi Kim, among others. Got to know & really appreciate Maria Damon & Mark Nowak & Gary Sullivan & Marta Deike (the latter two in St. Paul at the time before moving to New York), and tried to turn some of MCBA attention toward literary projects & literature/book arts conjunctions. Very much enjoyed time there & was on that bridge many times, although not on anything like a daily basis. Must have just missed George Bowering if he was there in the early nineties. Left in August 1996 to return to Tucson. Would like to get to Minneapolis/St. Paul more these days, if possible. charles trying to find george among those damned signifiers At 05:20 PM 8/4/2007, you wrote: >On Aug 4, 2007, at 9:06 AM, Tisa Bryant wrote: > >>And thanks for the map; I've never been to Minneapolis. > >What about you folks? >I went to Minneapolis sometime in the eighties or early nineties to >do some readings >and so on. >And in 2003, on a baseball trip, I passed THROUGH Minneapolis. You can do that >on the highway, so deep in a groove that you can see only the tops >of buildings. > > >George Bowering >Lost among the signifiers. > charles alexander / chax press fold the book inside the book keep it open always read from the inside out speak then Chax Press 520-620-1626 (studio) 520-275-4330 (cell) chax@theriver.com chax.org 650 E. 9th St. Tucson, AZ 85705 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 10:30:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: some TC lit folks ok+ bergman In-Reply-To: <14f395aa2e1c207cfa54ad3cce10cb42@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit mark's okay. i thought he responded to the list, maybe it was just to me. Tisa Bryant wrote: > Awesome! > > And thanks for the map; I've never been to Minneapolis. I made my > first real visit to the midwest just last year, Wisconsin (both > Kenosha and Wausau), so I'm still pondering the wonder that is Lake > Michigan. > > Question to all: should we be worried that Mark Nowak hasn't said > anything about being okay? Did I miss something? > > ********************************** > There is no energy in reproducing life. Stories are not imitations of > reality. They create new realities. The difference between creating > and reproducing is the difference between painting a tree with broad > brush strokes and tracing its outline from a photo. > > Roberta Allen, Fast Fiction: Creating Fiction > In Five Minutes > On Aug 3, 2007, at 6:21 PM, Tom W. Lewis wrote: > >> Northern Exposure was one of the smartest shows on TV in the early 90s >> -- I had real hope for pop culture back then, in my yoof! (there's a >> great episode that parodies Fellini, among others) >> >> just put up a map on my blog showing where the bridge is/was in relation >> to where we live -- I created it for my California relatives, who either >> don't realize the borders of the Twin Cities are coterminous, or else >> think we're all crammed into a singularity: a dot on the national >> weather map. >> >> http://minnesotan-ice.blogspot.com/2007/08/where-we-are-where-bridge-was >> .html >> >> (fyi, as the river straightens out along a north-south axis, it becomes >> the border between Minneapolis and Saint Paul: therefore, we live on the >> SP side) >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] >> On Behalf Of Tisa Bryant >> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 15:18 >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: Re: some TC lit folks ok+ bergman >> >> Rebecca, >> I've never seen Northern Exposure, but that cracked me up! >> Thank you. >> And I am glad to hear that everyone, as far as you know, is okay in the >> literary TC. >> >> Tisa >> >> ?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@ >> >> When you ain't got no money, you gotta get an attitude. >> >> >> Richard Pryor >> >> ?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@ >> >> >> On Aug 3, 2007, at 1:16 AM, Rebecca Weaver wrote: >> >>> hello all, >>> >>> was on my way to a twin cities book festival meeting (rain taxi, and >>> everyone there ok) when the bridge went down, saw the smoke from the >>> truck fire obscuring the mpls. skyline from the Lake street bridge. >>> the reports of missing and casualties is lower than they projected >>> last night, though the divers are still looking in the cars through >>> the day and into the next week. >>> >>> can't tell you what a shock it is, to have traveled that bridge so >>> many times. A physicist friend of mine works in a lab at the base of >>> the bridge. she'd left early yesterday to help a friend move. the >>> building, which houses a particle accelerator, was ok, and they're now >> >>> using it for recovery operations. >>> >>> so far, haven't heard of anyone in the TC lit community who was >>> involved or near the bridge. >>> >>> also can't describe the gratitude I feel for the concern here on the >>> list for all here. thank you *all* for your thoughts and good wishes. >>> >>> if you're looking to donate, check out www.kstp.com and the red cross. >>> >>> >>> on a lighter note, to follow the bergman thread, for those of you who >>> turn to DVDs of old tv show for comfort, from Northern Exposure: >>> >>> Grandma Woody: "The thing that's so amazing about Bergman, aside from >>> his terrific Swedish gulit . . . is he doesn't try to explain away the >> >>> apparent meaninglessless of life. His films are not mere quietist >>> exercises anymore than they're, uh, pat expressions of radical >>> subjectivism . . ." >>> >>> Ed Chigliak: "yeah . . ." >>> >> ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 09:07:19 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve russell Subject: In Barry Bond I See the Future of Poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Brilliant. Barry Bonds starring in Terminator, Part IV... --------------------------------- Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 13:03:36 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: Re: shamans, griots, etc. Comments: To: dgodston@sbcglobal.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Dan, I think there was a good feature on the griot in Talisman back in the day....I think it was in an issue focusing on Nate Mackey but I'm not sure...or maybe it was written by Mackey...now I'm thinking that is more plausible... wait...let me check my old Talis....okay...number 9 is the Mackey issue and the whole shaman/griot thing is strongly present...number 8 has the concluding part of Mackey's Gassire's Lute which is his really interesting reading of Duncan and the lineage is interesting...I assume # 7 would have the first part of this work... And of course I'm sure you got the Maria Sabina thing from Mr. Rothenberg which umbilically connects to Anne Waldman's work... just first thoughts on an endlessly deep well.... ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 13:12:58 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Horrific poetry Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I just watched The Land of Look Behind, Alan Greenberg's 1982 movie visiting Jamaica at the time of Bob Marley's funeral (in the features, Werner Herzog confesses he never really was that gone on reggae, who knew). It's sort of a horrifying movie in that ugliness & poetry, extreme poverty & elegance, the sublime & the ridiculous tangle rawly & heartstoppingly. These guys speak nonstop in a kind of overflowing blaze -- it's all hitched to a ridiculous & functional out-and-out commitment to Rasta. I guess I'll stick with humanism until the crowd thins out. Mairead >>> poet_in_hell@YAHOO.COM 08/05/07 12:07 PM >>> Brilliant. Barry Bonds starring in Terminator, Part IV... --------------------------------- Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 10:15:40 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Film makers & also the dancing Chicken (re the "R.I.P" thread) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline (a section of a post of mine with references to Griffith and many silent film makers etc didnt get through for some reason--thogh the rest of letter did, a few days ago--which was re Buster Keaton and Sembene, Leone and Pontecorvo and listed many other directors and grnes etc--) D W Griffith is crucial viewing if one is to understand film history and the development of an immense amount of film language. He made a very large number of excellent, great, films and to ignore him due to one seems a way of denial of film's history and the bases of much of its initial language, still in use to this day. One of the interesting things going on in early Griffith is how he is trying to find a cinematic language through the examples of the popular theater of the times and stereotyped images from photogrphy as well as trying to see what the film can do with the novel and "epic". The heavy weight of the late Victorian the popular theater and much of the popular literature of the time's tropes has to be somehow battled through --and watching Griffith's films is a "birth of cinema" process in action from film to film. Like many "pioneers" and "inventors" --Pound and Stein for example--the personal views and politics of Griffith are backward looking while the vision in terms of cinema is ever moving forward from out of the immense sort of crap that both Stein and Pound were also combating in their work. The paradox of the simultaneous existence of the very conservative and the very radical or "new" in a great deal of art and a great many artists since time began is of course a never ending puzzle, an enigma of the contrary (supposedly --) impulses towards the new on fringes of what is seen at the time as chaos--and the old, the embodiment of order. The fusion--or fission--of the contrary elements--does produce inded "groundbreaking" "pioneering" works while often enought the person doing the producing may well be mired in the longing for the good old dyas and froms of repressive order. The way in which the awareness of cinema and its history, languages, can be learned has evolved greatly with dvds, videos, downloadable materials of all kinds. In a very real sense a person can study cinema without ever going to the cinema. The privatizing of the "screening room" so to speak, to one viewer comfortably ensconced in one's own controlled domain--is different from the social experience of the cinema whether one watches outdoors at drive ins or court yard cinemas with a hanging sheet as the screen, or at the shrines of the cinema located in big cities (cinematehques, museums etc)--or in the airplane like seatings of megaplex theaters. The shift in the context of viewing films closes some avenues of thinking and opens others. I think a great deal of interesting work can be done on this shift--and the proliferation of new forms of development of conciousness of the viewing experience--as well as the way it can shift also the viewer's ways of perceiving the "world outside". Being able to frreze frame, slow forward, fast fowrad,watch at many different speeds or study one frame of one image for hours if one wants, to be ble to view a filmover and over and over or to view in selected parts over and over only--the viewer becomes an obsessive fetishist, or a new form of auteur via editing and amplification visually of the selected frames--and the speeds at which they are "run". And many mnay other possibilities open-- When i was 16 years old i was a throughgoing film fanatic--and at the time the only real place in the world to be for such a person was the Cinematheque Francaise in Paris. I'd work before school, after school, weekends and then the first 38 straight days of summer--to get plane ticket, passport and throw togtehr a tiny shoulder bag of things to take along. Sleping in parks and abondoned buildings, once under the Eifel Tower--walking the streets endlessly--the Coinmatheque, then located in the Musee de l'homme across the Seine from the Eifel Tower--was mecca--they ran five different films a day, each one of them part of a related series based on a theme, a director, actor, etc--a genre--a country's cinema and so forth--I went so often and started helping with some clean up work--and brining postage stmps on letters from USA to the woman in charge of the ticket stall--that earned a Free Pass sort of badge one showed when ever attending a screening. (Which at the time cost roughly fifty cents american for students). Not al the versions of films one saw were the best in the world--as M. henri Langlois in building the world's largest collection of films had beg cajoled stolen and accomplished by all sorts of "Arabian Nights" fantastic adventures the obtaining of whatever prints he could get his hands on. Thus I saw a version in Portuguese of Hitchock's film lifeboat, with subtitles in Farsi. There were many such multi-lingual films one saw--and though some groans here and there--the hard core cinephiles--of course--no objection! After all one was there to "see the film" and even at the most literal level of this, the possiblity of learning a great deal more in one's never ending travels into the wilds of the cinema. There were a hard core group of Parisian cinephiles always there and a great many like myself who had come from all over the world just to be at the Cinematheque. Being the youngest and one of the most fantic denizens of this world, had also some percs--as one was introduced to M. Langlois, who became a sort of benevolent Uncle--and via him , Truffaut and Godard when they came--and by literally being run into on the stairs by her--Anais Nin, there for a mini festival of films by her husband. All the time of course, everything was cinema--conversation in between the films, then the near-silent bordering on the religious vieiwing of the films, then more talk, then back into the screening room-- Paris at the time had more movie theaters and more different films showing than any other place on earth--so not only the Cinematheuqe to go to, but many others, many of which specialize in only one genre--Westerns, or Films Noir from around the world, etc--comedies, foreign films--silent films--there were all night cinemas where one could sleep rather uncomfortably when raining outside--and very dark ones to hide in after some various anarchist undertakings--(after all Oswald was arrested in a cinema--and John Dillinger gunned down on exiting from one--)--and through the various cinemas and cinematheque making a n ever widening circle of friends, acquaintances, contacts, and having many strange adventures. some very brutal, some in the CRS prisons, some living in an Anarchist cell of four others in a building i realized a month later had been an address of Rimbaud's at one point--after a while one would wonder--what was "real", what was a dream in the few hours of sleep--what was part of a film--and what a memory of a memory of a film seen in a dream about watching films--dreamed while walking in one's near-sleep at two am across Paris to a room put in charge of for a month-- The impulse of the cinema obsession spilled over into everything else--the walls of the cinema dissolve into the spaces of streets--one lives among the fluidities of states of being and ways of perception, hearing, moving--cinema, dream, memory, imagination, concrete fact--all of it swirling about one --in dreams five camera set ups for the scenes and immediately the editing process at work--then the projection work--(later i worked as projectionist, film reviewer, usher,cleaner of cinemas)-- Today one has access to far more films than the Cinematheque can hold--one doesn't need to go anywhere to see the history and languages of cinema in the "privacy and security of one's home". In a really weird way, one can be as Stalin and Hitler were--who each had access to world cinemas--much of it never seen by their subjects--and viewed the films in privacy and security-- One can now create a Cinemathque in one's home, if having the money for it--and track down things which used to be impossibly rare--films one might well read a lot about yet never in a lifetime think one would see. Today's situation is like a kind of Nirvana of the future for the cinephile of the past--except that a great deal of the viewing experience and life involved with it--is not present--the audience is missing--and a "Mass Art" or "Art for the Masses" becomes a privitzation, paradoxically in many cases, of ownership of out of print, hard to find dvds and vcr cassettes--and from the Mass Art of the age of mechanical reproduction one finds again a strange re-manifestation of the "aura" of the rare object. A public Cinematheque can be surpassed or subverted by a private one, which eschews the public open doors of the Cinema and opens instead those of a private domain of untold of luxuries . . . which may, unlike the public collections of libraries etc--seen but by a very few . . . so again the Cinema is returned to a state of "rare screenings"--though in many cases ones not in the least "open to the public". One can envision in this way the revisionism of new histories of Cinema, new ways of altering the languages of the cinema, erasing here, adding there, moving this director in and that one out, redeploying the contexts of the time of production and distribution into an aestheticized re-representation of re-reworkings of histories, audiences, locations, languages . . . One has the immense advantage now also of very good copies of very good prints of films, complete with the extra dvd of interviews, scenes cut out of the orginal release, etc etc-- and books with a wealth of knowledge and information that is incredible. Again, this is something which seems like an immense Nirvana of what would have been--and was, very much!-- dreamt of in various ways by the cinephiles attending yet another screwy version of the hodge podge collection at the Cinematheque. A curious effect though of man of the poor copies with the multi dubbed and multi subtitled languages accompanying the cinematic language and soundtrack musics--a strange effect of this blurring of boundaries of images, languages, sounds--is that it also gave brith to much cinema made by the people who had been coming to this realized manifestation of the single minded will of M. Langlois, one of the great colorful figures in cinema history. The Cinematheque and others like it devoted as the ones in NYC are to their own cinemas--the underground etc--these still exist--and also a great many excellent film societies and series throughout the world--in which there is still the viewing of the harder to see films by an audience brought together by the passion and interest of the cinema. To understand cinema--an industry producing products for audiences, whether mass or smaller, selected ones--the sense of the audience needs to be contact with physically even in the age of the private screening which can turn into a form of dictatorship--just as the conglomerate control of distribution, production, marketing--is a form of dictatorship. An awareness of the complexities involved in making, distributing, marketing cinema and in turn the ways in which it is from a megaplex to a tiny film society borrowed room, to the private viewing in one's home-fortress--needs to be continually brought to bear on the ways in which the cinema is being viewed and understood, as an art form, and as an art form within historical and economical and ideological contexts, within very differing cultural environments happening at many different "times" of film history simultaneously--with one area be more "advanced" in one way, another in another--and others--"discovering cinema" at a later time in its development--how this has effected ways of seeing cinema differently from cultures which have been involved with cinema viewing since earlier phases of its development. The same sense of time holds true for people in one's own life--according to their ages, where they entered into the history of film--how it was made, distributed, shown--when they first started watching films-- Re the silent cinema--I had the immense good fortune at one point to see a series of Chaplin silents and other silent films (Keaton, etc, Classics from abroad also) with my grandparents. (English wa my grandfather's second language; his original being Joual.) They were laughing and responding to the movements of the faces on the screen--without waiting for the boards with the printed words to appear. They said that in their youth everyone read the lips of the actors and knew the dialogue that way. But the really treasured moments were the actors and actresses who instead of saying (mouthing) the words of the script--would be smiling sweetly as the director demanded, while their lips were at the same time visibly saying to the educated audience (educated in reading lips by the cinema--)--"screw you you old SOB"--and lovers on screen telling each other how loathsome the other was, what a complete *** and impotent to boot!--M grandparents also pointed out that if one watched carefully body language and hand signs--very often there was an entirely different dialogue going on that what the mouths were pronouncing. apparently the "inexplicable popularity" of many stars of the time had as much to do with their abilities at literally appearing to say one thing while actually saying another. With the coming of sound, this whole wild subterranean aspect of cinema was lost--now the actors and actresses had to say what they were supposed to say--rather than being able to say two or three things all at once, and each one contradicting or subverting the others. The coming of sound my grandmother said, was actually a very sad day for a lot of the fun of the movies disappeared. (The early days of sound with the very stationary mic set ups also made the cinema go backwards as afr as locomotion of humans was concerned--now they had to restrict movements to within mic range--and hence the period dominated in US for a breif period by the film versions of a great many plays, a return paradoxically to an aspect of the early cinema, in which the film is finding its way through the immense clap-trappings of the Victorian theater--as the Naturalists and Pound and Stein, etc etc etc Anderson, Hemingway, Williams et alia- were finding ways to write through the heavy folds of late 19th century poetry and prose--sound brought things back to the stage temporarily--and seemed at first a reactionary mode after the heights of the Silent Film visually---many of them still among the greatest films ever made--) A great history of the early cinema is Kevin Brownlow's classic The Parade's Gone By. Sadly many of the great Silent Films, like Keaton's were "lost" (and then found in Stalin's vaults) along with a great many others never found and others existing, like Stroheim's great epic Greed, and a number of Abel Gance's projects, among hundreds of others, only in a fragmentary state--(though roughly four hours of it, out of the seven plus have survived--a lotof Classic Silent Cinema existing in a manner not that much different from surviving fragments and trunks, torsos, of Classic Greek Poetry or Sculpture, for one example of such--) (Godard and Eisenstein both took a lot from Griffith's films--and have written on him--as has Stan Brakhage--whose Brakhage Lectures are on silent and silent/later sound directors Melies, Eisenstein, Dreyer as well as Griffith) The Dancing Chicken actually was greatly popularized by Colonel Tom Parker, before he became Elvis Presley's manager. The trick is to have the chickens standing on a heated metal plate which is concealed beneath a cloth from the audience's view. The extremely hot metal of course, even through cloth, causes the chickens to hop from leg to leg and give them the appearnce of "dancing". A classic old Carnie con on which the Colonel built his reputation throughout the South. (Carried further by another Colonel, who went from hot plates for dancing chickens to simply frying them by the millions . . . a food favored by Colonel Tom's client, the King.) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 10:16:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Kasimor Subject: Re: Going to Minneapolis In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20070805082304.035603b0@theriver.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I'm planning to move there in a few years--need to get things settled here first. I consider Mpls./St. Paul area a good place to live. Years ago when I wanted to move there, I didn't think that it was a good idea because I was a single mom w/2 kids and housing was too expensive. (It's cheap compared to other cities, but I was on the welfare plan at the time.) I am certainly looking forward to moving there, lots of music, theater, and friends. I'm not sure about the poetry scene, but I do know that there are some great small publishers in the area. I go to the Twin Cities Book Publishers, and it's always wonderful. The bridge--I probably walked across it when I lived in Dinkytown back in the early 70's, but I don't know for sure. In my opinion, the collapse of the bridge is political. Someone reminded me that the whole no new taxes thing began with the Reagan administration. Taxes are good--too many politicians and greedy americans have forgotten that. I see that Pawlenty has agreed to increasing the gas tax, and he was against it before he was for it. Mary Kasimor charles alexander wrote: Went to Minneapolis in 1983 for the first time, from Madison Wisconsin where I had begun making books & publishing handmade editions by various writers, to hear Robert Creeley talk & read on the occasion of a major Jim Dine retrospective at the Walker Art Center. Moved to Minneapolis in 1993 (from Tucson Arizona) to direct Minnesota Center for Book Arts, taking Chax Press there for that time and publishing books while there by Kathleen Fraser, Norman Fischer, & Myung Mi Kim, among others. Got to know & really appreciate Maria Damon & Mark Nowak & Gary Sullivan & Marta Deike (the latter two in St. Paul at the time before moving to New York), and tried to turn some of MCBA attention toward literary projects & literature/book arts conjunctions. Very much enjoyed time there & was on that bridge many times, although not on anything like a daily basis. Must have just missed George Bowering if he was there in the early nineties. Left in August 1996 to return to Tucson. Would like to get to Minneapolis/St. Paul more these days, if possible. charles trying to find george among those damned signifiers At 05:20 PM 8/4/2007, you wrote: >On Aug 4, 2007, at 9:06 AM, Tisa Bryant wrote: > >>And thanks for the map; I've never been to Minneapolis. > >What about you folks? >I went to Minneapolis sometime in the eighties or early nineties to >do some readings >and so on. >And in 2003, on a baseball trip, I passed THROUGH Minneapolis. You can do that >on the highway, so deep in a groove that you can see only the tops >of buildings. > > >George Bowering >Lost among the signifiers. > charles alexander / chax press fold the book inside the book keep it open always read from the inside out speak then Chax Press 520-620-1626 (studio) 520-275-4330 (cell) chax@theriver.com chax.org 650 E. 9th St. Tucson, AZ 85705 --------------------------------- Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 10:22:37 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eireene Nealand Subject: identity splicing & autopoesis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline i think i saw something on the list about identity splicing earlier, so I'm trying to track it down as well as to hear about any other work related to this. it's hard to explain what identity splicing is yet, but I think that Juliana Spahr and Eugene Ostashevsky are doing it. Juliana Spahr (in Everything With Lungs) seems to have shown how (since the advent of chaos theory) it seems to be appropriate to cycle through everything else in order to deal with your own identity. Eugene Ostashevsky, with his DJ Spinoza series, suggestst that some kind of synchonizing would be in order to deal with what I think Allen Sondheim has been calling dispersed identity. 2) this is where the swarm intelligence and autopoesis theory comes in, or emergent patterns... 3) eventually, i'll try to trace all of this back to explain how it's the next step after Samuel Becket and Gertrude Stein, who made articulations in the "stream of consciousness" and started showing us mixable atoms... In fact it is much more fun to just look at people figuring all of this out creatively though, so if anyone knows of any good works on this, i'd be much obliged. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 12:42:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fluffy Singler Subject: Re: some TC lit folks ok+ bergman MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was thinking that too. The fatalities themselves were pretty low -- more injuries than fatalities. Hopefully he's just traveling or hasn't been online much. -----Original Message----- From: Tisa Bryant [mailto:tisab@EARTHLINK.NET] Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 11:07 AM Subject: Re: some TC lit folks ok+ bergman Awesome! And thanks for the map; I've never been to Minneapolis. I made my first real visit to the midwest just last year, Wisconsin (both Kenosha and Wausau), so I'm still pondering the wonder that is Lake Michigan. Question to all: should we be worried that Mark Nowak hasn't said anything about being okay? Did I miss something? ********************************** There is no energy in reproducing life. Stories are not imitations of reality. They create new realities. The difference between creating and reproducing is the difference between painting a tree with broad brush strokes and tracing its outline from a photo. Roberta Allen, Fast Fiction: Creating Fiction In Five Minutes On Aug 3, 2007, at 6:21 PM, Tom W. Lewis wrote: > Northern Exposure was one of the smartest shows on TV in the early 90s > -- I had real hope for pop culture back then, in my yoof! (there's a > great episode that parodies Fellini, among others) > > just put up a map on my blog showing where the bridge is/was in > relation > to where we live -- I created it for my California relatives, who > either > don't realize the borders of the Twin Cities are coterminous, or else > think we're all crammed into a singularity: a dot on the national > weather map. > > http://minnesotan-ice.blogspot.com/2007/08/where-we-are-where-bridge- > was > .html > > (fyi, as the river straightens out along a north-south axis, it becomes > the border between Minneapolis and Saint Paul: therefore, we live on > the > SP side) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] > On Behalf Of Tisa Bryant > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 15:18 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: some TC lit folks ok+ bergman > > Rebecca, > I've never seen Northern Exposure, but that cracked me up! > Thank you. > And I am glad to hear that everyone, as far as you know, is okay in the > literary TC. > > Tisa > > ?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@ > > When you ain't got no money, you gotta get an attitude. > > > Richard Pryor > > ?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@#$&*?!@ > > > On Aug 3, 2007, at 1:16 AM, Rebecca Weaver wrote: > >> hello all, >> >> was on my way to a twin cities book festival meeting (rain taxi, and >> everyone there ok) when the bridge went down, saw the smoke from the >> truck fire obscuring the mpls. skyline from the Lake street bridge. >> the reports of missing and casualties is lower than they projected >> last night, though the divers are still looking in the cars through >> the day and into the next week. >> >> can't tell you what a shock it is, to have traveled that bridge so >> many times. A physicist friend of mine works in a lab at the base of >> the bridge. she'd left early yesterday to help a friend move. the >> building, which houses a particle accelerator, was ok, and they're now > >> using it for recovery operations. >> >> so far, haven't heard of anyone in the TC lit community who was >> involved or near the bridge. >> >> also can't describe the gratitude I feel for the concern here on the >> list for all here. thank you *all* for your thoughts and good wishes. >> >> if you're looking to donate, check out www.kstp.com and the red cross. >> >> >> on a lighter note, to follow the bergman thread, for those of you who >> turn to DVDs of old tv show for comfort, from Northern Exposure: >> >> Grandma Woody: "The thing that's so amazing about Bergman, aside from >> his terrific Swedish gulit . . . is he doesn't try to explain away the > >> apparent meaninglessless of life. His films are not mere quietist >> exercises anymore than they're, uh, pat expressions of radical >> subjectivism . . ." >> >> Ed Chigliak: "yeah . . ." >> > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 14:09:49 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: North-5 Text-2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is the second page in this row: http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282/North/North-5/text-2.htm Introduction to project: http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282/North/Intro.htm Notes: Designed for 1024X768 screen resolution; Medium size fonts; Explorer or = Foxfire browsers.=20 References open by placing cursor over text. -Joel ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 17:31:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: Re: WHY DOES WOODY ALLEN EXIST / dancing chicken MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I thought it was from one of those Burger King ads from a couple years = back... wouldn't that be a trip if Herzog was behind those?=20 -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group on behalf of Halvard Johnson Sent: Sat 8/4/2007 8:50 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: WHY DOES WOODY ALLEN EXIST =20 That would be Werner Herzog or one of his writers. Hal On Aug 4, 2007, at 4:14 PM, Maria Damon wrote: > who is responsible for the marvelous chicken quotation? > > Halvard Johnson wrote: >> Please name an "even" filmmaker (or poet or >> novelist or playwright or anything else). >> >> Hal >> >> >> "Can't stop the dancing chicken." >> ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 20:32:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: identity splicing & autopoesis In-Reply-To: <578647560708051022g4568158x97d1634eee793c1a@mail.gmail.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit me, too!! or, me, two, or, me, to On 8/5/07 1:22 PM, "Eireene Nealand" wrote: > i think i saw something on the list about identity splicing earlier, > so I'm trying to track it down as well as to hear about any other work > related to this. > > it's hard to explain what identity splicing is yet, but I think that > Juliana Spahr and Eugene Ostashevsky are doing it. > > Juliana Spahr (in Everything With Lungs) seems to have shown how > (since the advent of chaos theory) it seems to be appropriate to cycle > through everything else in order to deal with your own identity. > > Eugene Ostashevsky, with his DJ Spinoza series, suggestst that some > kind of synchonizing would be in order to deal with what I think Allen > Sondheim has been calling dispersed identity. > > > 2) this is where the swarm intelligence and autopoesis theory comes > in, or emergent patterns... > > 3) eventually, i'll try to trace all of this back to explain how it's > the next step after Samuel Becket and Gertrude Stein, who made > articulations in the "stream of consciousness" and started showing us > mixable atoms... > > In fact it is much more fun to just look at people figuring all of > this out creatively though, so if anyone knows of any good works on > this, i'd be much obliged. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 21:35:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Zimmerman Subject: wikicheck Comments: To: Daniel Zimmerman MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://chronicle.com/wiredcampus/index.php?id=3D2278 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 20:38:05 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark DuCharme Subject: Re: In Barry Bonds I See The Future of Poetry In-Reply-To: <315948.35945.qm@web30410.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed "Barry Bonds is being crucified for the inevitable; he is a martyr for the future. And in the future, just as our children will reminisce about when humans beings still played baseball, we shall reminisce about the time when human beings still wrote poetry for other humans." Ah, but who says that one writes poetry for other humans? Mark DuCharme _________________________________________________________________ Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more….then map the best route! http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&ss=yp.bars~yp.pizza~yp.movie%20theater&cp=42.358996~-71.056691&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=950607&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 00:43:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: shamans, griots, etc. In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed It might be smart to step out of discipline. Browse the anthro section of your library and you'll find thousands of sources. You could start with Victor Turner. Mark At 01:03 PM 8/5/2007, you wrote: >Hi Dan, > >I think there was a good feature on the griot in Talisman back in the >day....I think it was in an issue focusing on Nate Mackey but I'm >not sure...or >maybe it was written by Mackey...now I'm thinking that is more plausible... > >wait...let me check my old Talis....okay...number 9 is the Mackey issue and >the whole shaman/griot thing is strongly present...number 8 has the >concluding > part of Mackey's Gassire's Lute which is his really interesting reading of >Duncan and the lineage is interesting...I assume # 7 would have the >first part > of this work... > >And of course I'm sure you got the Maria Sabina thing from Mr. Rothenberg >which umbilically connects to Anne Waldman's work... > >just first thoughts on an endlessly deep well.... > > > >************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at >http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 02:17:33 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Allen on Bergman In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline No, The worst impulses of Woody Allen (his desire to be the critics' darling) meets the weeker Bergan. For me the great Bergman movies are the later ones, made for T.V.: Fanny and Alexander and Scenes from a Marriage, when he had stopped talking to dead people on the beach playing chess. Is that not embarrassing after a certain age? I though perhaps I will still like Smiles of A Summer Night, but I am not sure. I was never able to go through Persona a second time. Fanny and Alexander is absolutely great, a haunting movie. I love the Hamlet production in it and the incredible decor of the house and that wierd horse carriage in which some members of the family travel.the Sergio Leone movies, maybe Who Shot Liberty Valence At one time, woody Allen had made an analysis of Shane for The New York Times, as one of the few American movies he liked. He gave the impression he was slumming. Who among lovers of Westerns consider Shane as their favorite Western? Nobody. Maybe The Man Who Shot Liberty Valence, maybe The Man from Laramie, but Shane? Alright, maybe The Searchers or The Red River or even the one where Spencer Tracy is a severe pater familia and has a Mexican wife. Has anyone seen the Western directed by Marlon Brando? My favorite Woody Allen movies: Broadway Danny Rose (where he has learnt to laugh at himself), Radio Days (I just love this one), Crimes and Other Misdemeanors, Bananas. Has anyone sat through an Antonioni movie recently? Ciao, Murat Ciao, Murat On 8/5/07, Aryanil Mukherjee wrote: > > This week's Time Magazine has a Woody Allen interview where Allen speaks > about Bergman. Has anyone read it ? > > Aryanil > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 18:15:18 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Switaj Subject: Re: wikicheck In-Reply-To: <003001c7d7ca$09205cf0$0201a8c0@ENITHARMON> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I see one major problem with that software, which is that people who edit controversial pages or pages that were prone to vandalism prior to being locked will be ranked as less trustworthy than those who stick to quiet backwaters. Furthermore, while it may be true "that there's no easy way to separate the wheat from the chaff" on Wikipedia, there certainly is one way available: check the sources, which is something people should learn to do anyway, whether they're dealing with Wikipedia or a book from a university press. Granted, it's always good to have more information available, but I would have my reservations about using the software with students, as it seems likely that many of them would simply come to rely on its judgments rather than developing their own critical thinking abilities. Elizabeth Kate Switaj www.elizabethkateswitaj.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 20:43:32 +1000 Reply-To: jfk@poetinresidence.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jayne Fenton Keane Organization: Poet In Residence Subject: Invitation to participate MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Forensic Notes from the scene of the crime. First clue, poetry. Think outside the page... To kick start some dastardly acts of poetry, National Poetry Week invites poets to hide their poems in public spaces and to submit clues to the Director for publication on the National Poetry Week website. You can then launch your poetry campaign to see if anyone can find your poems. Best way to submit is to send to jfk@nationalpoetryweek.com with the word 'submission' in the subject line. Submit in the following format. Example Poem: Emergency Poet: Jayne Fenton Keane Clue: It is hidden in the grass behind a tanned person wearing a red and yellow hat between Surfers Paradise and Magic Mountain. Enjoy! Jayne Fenton Keane Director National Poetry Week www.nationalpoetryweek.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 08:24:27 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: identity splicing & autopoesis In-Reply-To: <578647560708051022g4568158x97d1634eee793c1a@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline " this is where the swarm intelligence and autopoesis theory comes > in, or emergent patterns... I do not thing what is being described is such a new process. Pessoa's heteronyms are the most prominent example of it. I am just reading Charles Bernstein's interview with Douglas Messerli's on Messerli's poetry in "My Year 2005: Terrifying Times," just published by Green Integer. Messerli elaborates on his poetry and his other work as playright, novelist, publisher of books, etc. completely in heteronymic terms. Ciao, Murat On 8/5/07, Eireene Nealand wrote: > > i think i saw something on the list about identity splicing earlier, > so I'm trying to track it down as well as to hear about any other work > related to this. > > it's hard to explain what identity splicing is yet, but I think that > Juliana Spahr and Eugene Ostashevsky are doing it. > > Juliana Spahr (in Everything With Lungs) seems to have shown how > (since the advent of chaos theory) it seems to be appropriate to cycle > through everything else in order to deal with your own identity. > > Eugene Ostashevsky, with his DJ Spinoza series, suggestst that some > kind of synchonizing would be in order to deal with what I think Allen > Sondheim has been calling dispersed identity. > > > 2) this is where the swarm intelligence and autopoesis theory comes > in, or emergent patterns... > > 3) eventually, i'll try to trace all of this back to explain how it's > the next step after Samuel Becket and Gertrude Stein, who made > articulations in the "stream of consciousness" and started showing us > mixable atoms... > > In fact it is much more fun to just look at people figuring all of > this out creatively though, so if anyone knows of any good works on > this, i'd be much obliged. > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 05:43:33 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Hiroshima: The Day on Fire makes Eternal Shadows on Walls-- MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline The anniversary of Hiroshima 6 August 1945 8:15 a.m. Sembrar la Memoria the following excerpts are from Nine Who Survived Hiroshima and Nagasaki Personal Experiences of Nine Men Who Lived Through the Atomic Bombings Robert Trumball, E.P Dutton, 1957. Ten years after the bombings, it was learned that a search of all Japanese records indicated that 18 people had survived both the Hiroshima and the Nagasaki atomic blasts. An extensive search throughout Japan located eleven of the 18. Nine agreed to speak of their experiences. The bombs dropped on the two Japanese cities are barely firecrackers compared to the weapons that the USA and Israel are discussing dropping on Iran. Radioactive elements in weapons used in the First Gulf War and since in Iraq and Afghanistan, as well as the as yet unknown, uniidentified Israeli weapons used in Lebanon last summer, have been causing new forms of illness, as yet inexplicable burns and wounds for which there are no cures as yet. The effects of nuclear weaponry being dispersed, in smaller doses, across populations and soldiers, using persons as "living laboratories" of effects bringing slower or faster deaths, polluting gene pools, and, via human waste, corpses, planting the poisons in water supplies and the soil. Populations and landscapes made radioactive, slowly burning alive, without having to drop the bombs first. Trumball: "Instantly the sky was blanked out by the incandescent white light of the monstrous fireball. Scientists estimated that the ball was 250 feet in diameter and a hundred times as bright as the sun, with a heat of 1,000,000 degrees Centigrade. he same as the sun's interior There was a roar of sound that is indescribale. for there is nothing with which it can be compared. Then came a wave of concussion that instantly leveled 6,820 buildings, and badly damaged 3, 750 more. The earth for a mile around the blast center was bombarded with deadly gamma rays and neutrons and showered with radioactive fission products.. The fireball sucked up millions of tons of dust and pulverized debris that quickly began to form the the great, ugly mushroom cloud. The city fell under a dark pall, and a muddy rain began to fall . . . "In the city of approximately 255, 000, more than half the population was instantly dead or incapicitated (dead above 64,000, injured 72,000). Casualties who escaped death in the blast were badly burned. or injured by falling timbers, or flying glass. No city was ever more prostrate. All means of comminication were gone. Seventy per cent of the fire fighting equipment was destroyed, and 80 per cent of the fire-fighting personnel were killed, wounded or otherwise unable to respond to the emergency. Concussion had broken the water mians, and pipes were melted in the incredible heat. Many burning buildings were inacessible anyway,blocked off as they were by the debris of fallen structures . . . "Of forty-five hospitals, only three were left standing. Only twenty-eight out of 290 physicians in the city were unhurt, and 126 of the 1,780 nurses . . . "With all facilities virtually nonexistent, the city was at the mercy of the flames, and by two o'clock in the afternoon the six islands (of the city) were a sea of fire. Terror was heightened by the flaming windstorm caused by convection as the air was drawn at thirty to forty miles an hour to the blazing center of the blast . . . "The door facing Yamaguchi opened, and five boys, fifteen or sixteen years old, came running out. They were unclothed except for torn underpants, and Yamaguchi saw that theywere covered in blood . . . "'I had never seen such a horrifying sight as those five shivering boys. Blood was pouring in streams from deep cuts all over their bodies, mingling with their perspiration, and their skin was burned deep red, like the color of cokked lobsters. At first it seemed, strangely, that their burned and lacerated backs and chests were growing green grass! Then I saw that hundreds of blades of sharp grass had been driven deep into their flesh, evidently by the force of the blast." . . . . (these boys had been inside a small factory building--not outdoors) "Hirata set out for home . . . "'There was not a house standing as far as I could see . . . Although I knew the city well, it was actually difficult to find my way, for al the familiar landmarks were gone, and the streets I often walked were now buried in debris and ashes' . . . "Hirata noticed, with a shock, that there wasn't a living being in sight. "It was as if the people who had lived in this uncanny city had been reduced to ashes with their houses,' he said . . . As he moved slowly through the ashes, he came to the first ghastly dead. "'The first was a little boy,' he recalls. 'He was completely naked, his skin was all peeled off as if he had been flayed, and the nails were falling from the ends of his fingers. His flesh was all deep red. When I first saw him I wasn't sure if I was looking at a human being Morimoto-- "'There were numberless injured persons all around me, lying on the ground, some held down by fallen timbers, all screaming and shouting for help. I saw that they were all still alive,m but horribly injured. Many looked like ghosts, with the skin peeled off their faces and hanging down over their shoulders like thin silk pennants. All those facing in the direction of the blast had their exposed skin torn off in a thick layer whgich had blown back. The sight left me numb with horror.' . . . . ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 08:19:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: Allen on Bergman In-Reply-To: <1dec21ae0708052317p78b1d094h1d4d3cb178205564@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sitting through those is always a pleasure for me. Last one was The Passenger, just a week or two ago. Currently looking forward to sitting through La Notte and L'Eclisse--again, for the first time in years. Hal "The bacon too carries on its modest love affair." --Tony Towle Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Aug 6, 2007, at 1:17 AM, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > Has anyone sat through an Antonioni movie recently? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 10:05:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: Re: identity splicing & autopoesis & Rietveld Spongebob In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I think we are all the equivalent of?a lab's transgenic animals today...how could one possibly avoid it if one immerses oneself in media which are based on the quick-change cipher anyway...have a happy recombinant image day...but it is fun to call it a new theory, process, school or something...then you get to dress up...and who doesn't love a parade...well, my cat for one... and of course a plug....today @ Joe Brainard's Pyjamas, Tenniel-based artwork by outsider artist Barb of Ohio, a Rietveld Spongebob, Liebefugue, new poetry & more, more i remember more... -----Original Message----- From: Ruth Lepson To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 8:32 pm Subject: Re: identity splicing & autopoesis me, too!! or, me, two, or, me, to On 8/5/07 1:22 PM, "Eireene Nealand" wrote: > i think i saw something on the list about identity splicing earlier, > so I'm trying to track it down as well as to hear about any other work > related to this. > > it's hard to explain what identity splicing is yet, but I think that > Juliana Spahr and Eugene Ostashevsky are doing it. > > Juliana Spahr (in Everything With Lungs) seems to have shown how > (since the advent of chaos theory) it seems to be appropriate to cycle > through everything else in order to deal with your own identity. > > Eugene Ostashevsky, with his DJ Spinoza series, suggestst that some > kind of synchonizing would be in order to deal with what I think Allen > Sondheim has been calling dispersed identity. > > > 2) this is where the swarm intelligence and autopoesis theory comes > in, or emergent patterns... > > 3) eventually, i'll try to trace all of this back to explain how it's > the next step after Samuel Becket and Gertrude Stein, who made > articulations in the "stream of consciousness" and started showing us > mixable atoms... > > In fact it is much more fun to just look at people figuring all of > this out creatively though, so if anyone knows of any good works on > this, i'd be much obliged. ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 08:37:03 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007)] In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Try D.W. Griffith's Intolerance, if you can find a decent print of it. It's the great film he made immediately after Birth of a Nation, which you can bury if it bothers you, as it should. There is another good one called Orphans Of The Storm. Still, while there's no denying the sinister impact of Birth of a Nation, not only are some of Griffith's films wonderful, they played an important role in the development of film narrative. Regards, Tom Savage Tisa Bryant wrote: I refrained from listing any more directors than I did! I have also had a hard time accepting the cinematic genius of DW Griffith because of the racist narrative he was putting forward using it. Other people are able to make the needed separations in order to see; to say he offends me isn't saying much. For me BIRTH OF A NATION is a feature-length overlay in assaultive practices, and I've never bothered to see anything else he's made because of it. But seeing DJ Spooky's REBIRTH OF A NATION at a special screening in Providence allowed me to see and understand his craft, in terms of what he, technically, was doing with the camera and its cinematic, not national narrative, effects, though we're still (not) reckoning with where the twain did and still meet, on screens around the world. I finally watched all three hours of it two years ago. I was still infuriated, but then I was like, "Oh. That's an iris shot." Still, my response to that as-yet-unspoken call to Griffith was the oft-unappreciated Oscar Micheaux. I do, however, love Steve Erickson's novel invocation of Griffith and cinema, DAYS BETWEEN STATIONS. Though I've seen works from all the directors on your list of omissions (except Ghatak and Sen, so I'm on the move), Chaplin, for instance, isn't part of my body because I've spent scant time watching his films, my four-year tenure at Modern Times Bookstore and left-leaning politics notwithstanding. All the Buster Keaton I've seen in my life has been during a meza plate lunch at Olive Tree on MacDougal & W. 3rd. Busby Berkeley: I've seen "That's Entertainment" profiles on him, then the obvious references to him in Matthew Barney's CREMASTER cycle. If anything, I see for myself a need to revisit these works, since I may simply be having some psycho-trigger issues around all American silent films, thanks to Griffith. This gets conflated into what I see as the aesthetic *scariness* of silent films: contrast, frames per second and jerky motion, mouths moving with no sound, etc. Unintentional eeriness. I saw NOSFERATU as a child at Camp Lapham when I was 8. Keaton's makeup freaks me out. Then, in terms of the gaze, I can't comfortably project myself into that (or the majority of cinematic) landscape(s); it's not *my* neck that cranes back for a kiss from X leading man, nor am I that man, though a project of my own version of PURPLE ROSE OF CAIRO, for instance (what happens when a 1980s black girl steps into a circa 1939 movie) could be very interesting. I do love Julie Dash's short film, ILLUSIONS, for engaging in the old movie/identity conversation with panache. Pierre said something about Americans going for foreign films, and I want to comment on that, briefly, and expand on the above, just to say that I must, for continued mental health, allow myself cinematic escapes from the American national narrative as its perpetuated in film, because there are other possibilities for the image-not-as-metaphor, not as racial or Other marker than the Griffith legacy allows. Something about survival, subjectivity and perspective, than simple swooning. We Americans are quite varied in that respect, and, judging from what I've seen from Francophone African filmmakers (and Vietnamese filmmakers, too, I believe), so are the French. Etc. I do swoon over Lubitsch, though, and Cukor, Wilder, Hawks, Huston, Sturges, Vidor. I especially like b/w films that have that glitter-gloss, like THE SWEET SMELL OF SUCCESS, or BORN YESTERDAY. I also love melodramatic films like Sirk's, and those of his ilk, and enjoy the continuum as evidenced in Fassbinder and Todd Haynes, among others. If the Brattle Theatre was film school for me, my mom was film school K-12. Before AMC on cable, it was all about UHF on weekends for old (30s, 40s, 50s) film. It's been a delight to spend time seeing what the rest of the world was up to, cinematically, during those times, dig the cross-pollination, especially during/after WWII. I also loved/hated the Rock Hudson/Doris Day/Bobby Darin-esque romantic romps. To be that carefree.... I was just working on this quote from Tarkovsky, in which he says that people go to the cinema for time, time spent, not had or lost. For an enhanced living experience. So our lists, if we agree with Tarkovsky, are not ridiculous and to be apologized for or silenced, but, yes, Aryanil, the beginnings of a much bigger, deeper conversation. Thanks for starting this! back to work.... Tisa ********************************** To create form out of the nature of our tasks with the methods of our time—this is our task. Mies van der Rohe On Aug 1, 2007, at 7:46 PM, Aryanil Mukherjee wrote: > I'm the one to be blamed, I started this. My initial 5, or ok, lets say > 10, pertained to Bergman's generation. Now we have names > from virtually every age of cinema. What makes me glad is that > from a "silly" naming game we are now into a movie-mood sharing > specific films, personal experiences, nostalgias etc. > > Great names have come up. Talking about American cinema, > we went as far back as Vertov, but sadly no one mentioned > D W Griffith whom I would call the father of modern cinema. > Also, we forgot Charles Chaplin - he made a lot of films here, in > Chicago > and NY. Going around the world, I can't think of a film director better > known internationally. > > Notable omissions I can think of are - > > Hungary - Zoltan Fabri, Marta Meszaros, Zanussi, > the Czech new wave heros - Milos Forman, Jiri Menzel, Vera Chitilova > France - Louis Malle, Robert Bresson > India - Ritwik Ghatak, Mrinal Sen > Cuba - Tomas Alea > Poland - Roman Polanski > Germany - Volker Schlondroff, Marguerite Von Trotta > Turkey - Yilmaaz Gunay > Iran - Mohsen Makhmalbaf, Zafar Panahi > Brazil - Nelson Pereira > > Aryanil > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tisa Bryant" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 8:07 PM > Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) > > > I just watched L'ECLISSE for the 5th time (I wrote a piece on it; be > out soon), but love the inexplicable actions of THE PASSENGER and > L'AVVENTURA. > > Haven't watched Bergman since last year (AUTUMN SONATA); will return to > him, "my first film love". I think PERSONA was the first I saw of his, > at the Brattle Theater in Cambridge, MA. My film school. I remember > one particular evening, at the end of a failed love affair that hadn't > quite ended, I watched three Bergman films (WILD STRAWBERRIES was one) > in a row. But sadly, I've always attempted to watch THE SEVENTH SEAL > late at night, and I've always fallen asleep. He taught me about > light, dark, silence and the layered frame (I think someone said > something about his depth of field, or some suchness). > > Bergman's women...and Woody Allen's, Godard's, Cassavetes', Fellini's, > etc...it's more than amazing, what these women have done for film, in > film, made visible, palpable...in an expression of the inexpressible > (to quote Blonde Redhead, a propos a Vitti), from director to actor. > didn't a book on Monica Vitti just come out? I remember reading a > review in BookForum, I think. > > My "Indelible Imagemakers" list, in no order, hella long, and really, > it could change tomorrow, and well it should; there are at least 20 > filmmakers for my every mood. As for the top whatever, and voting, > etc? Not interested. I'll leave that to some academy. These folks' > works haunt, mark, stay with me, and I keep returning, seeking them out > for more: > > Antonioni > Bergman > Jean-Pierre Melville > Alain Resnais > Renoir > Fellini > Almodovar > Kubrick > Godard > Kurosawa > Cassavetes > Sembene Ousmane (died last month; was also a novelist) > Bela Tarr > Coppola > Ozu > Jacques Rivette > Billy Wilder > Charles Burnett (and not just for KILLER OF SHEEP) > Satyajit Ray > Flora Gomes (and all the overlooked "African New Wave" filmmakers of > the late 80s -early 90s, along with the "Hong Kong New Wave") > Otto Preminger > Shohei Imamura > Tsai Ming Liang > Chris Marker (I dare!) > Scorcese > Luchino Visconti > Stanley Kwan > Claire Denis > Oscar Micheaux > George Cukor > Chantal Akerman > Nancy Savoca > Fassbinder > Spike Lee > John Sayles > Apichatpong Weerasethakul (let's see, 10 years from now, what's up) > Tarkovsky > Agnes Varda > > It's all so intertextual! That's what makes the ongoing conversation > of cinema so interesting to me. And why the list, really, means > nothing. But I couldn't help it! > > About to watch Pasolini's MAMA ROMA, and Theo Angelopoulos' THE WEEPING > MEADOW; some buyer's on point at the Brooklyn Public Library. I also > really liked Bertolucci's BEFORE THE REVOLUTION. > > Peace and light to the spirits of Igmar Bergman and Antonioni as they > pass through this world to the next, and much thanks to them for > leaving so much of themselves, and their vision, with us. > > Tisa > > ¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨ > ¨ > ¨¨¨¨¨¨¨ > Prose is like a window; fiction is like a door. > But it is not uncommon that he who should come in through the door > jumps in through the window. > > MuXin > translated by Toming Jun Liu > > ¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨ > ¨ > ¨¨¨¨¨¨¨ > On Jul 31, 2007, at 5:20 PM, amy king wrote: > >> John Cassavettes, yes! Someone already wrote Akria Kurosawa, yes? >> >> Anything Krystof Kieslowski. >> >> Dare I throw Chris Marker into the mix? And Wim Wenders? >> >> >> Ruth Lepson wrote: >> and cassavettes & who cd forget 'Nashville' >> http://www.amyking.org/blog >> >> --------------------------------- >> Luggage? GPS? Comic books? >> Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search. >> > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.25/926 - Release Date: > 7/29/2007 11:14 PM > --------------------------------- Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 08:37:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: Allen on Bergman In-Reply-To: <1dec21ae0708052317p78b1d094h1d4d3cb178205564@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Allen has a new book of comic shorts out; I haven't read it yet (my husband just checked it out of the library). While I won't argue that he is a brilliant story writer, I want to mention that the first footnote I saw in a work of fiction was in a Woody Allen story. Aren't all footnotes out of context essentially comic? Eileen Tabios -- opinion? Then he makes all his actors give out of context performances. Hmm. Sleeper is a great movie. It completely revises the chase scene. Shane is a great movie. Is it a great Western? Who cares. They just redid 3:10 to Yuma with Russell Crowe. P.S. The album of the Italian folk whistlers who did all the whistling on the Leone soundtracks is just wonderful. -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly@gmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 17:07:11 +0000 Reply-To: editor@fulcrumpoetry.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fulcrum Annual Subject: new: Free FULCRUM Poetry Forum MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Open to everyone! A free poetry discussion forum/board launched by FULCRU= M on Facebook. Anyone can join, post, message, launch new discussion topi= cs, and much more! Anything FULCRUM- and poetry-related goes! Please intr= oduce yourself on joining. http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=3D4089574795 To join, you need a Facebook account. Registration is free and super easy= . See you on Facebook! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 10:52:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: Allen on Bergman In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit E.g., the fuzzy Robin Williams in Deconstructing Harry? Hal "If you're not nervous, you're not paying attention." --Miles Davis Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Aug 6, 2007, at 10:37 AM, Catherine Daly wrote: > Then he makes all his actors give out of context performances. Hmm. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 12:10:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: Invitation to participate Comments: To: jfk@poetinresidence.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Mine is hidden in the Brown University Bookstore, in the poetry section, under 'B.' That may be too well-hidden. Mairead >>> Jayne Fenton Keane 08/06/07 6:43 AM >>> Forensic Notes from the scene of the crime. First clue, poetry. Think outside the page... To kick start some dastardly acts of poetry, National Poetry Week invites poets to hide their poems in public spaces and to submit clues to the Director for publication on the National Poetry Week website. You can then launch your poetry campaign to see if anyone can find your poems. Best way to submit is to send to jfk@nationalpoetryweek.com with the word 'submission' in the subject line. Submit in the following format. Example Poem: Emergency Poet: Jayne Fenton Keane Clue: It is hidden in the grass behind a tanned person wearing a red and yellow hat between Surfers Paradise and Magic Mountain. Enjoy! Jayne Fenton Keane Director National Poetry Week www.nationalpoetryweek.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 13:13:17 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: **Advertise in Boog City 44** Comments: To: "UB Poetics discussion group "@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Please forward ----------------------- Advertise in Boog City 44 *Deadline --Thurs. Aug. 9-Ad copy to editor --Sat. Aug. 18-Issue to be distributed Email to reserve ad space ASAP We have 2,250 copies distributed and available free throughout Manhattan's East Village, and Williamsburg and Greenpoint, Brooklyn. ----- Take advantage of our indie discount ad rate. We are once again offering a 50% discount on our 1/8-page ads, cutting them from $60 to $30. (The discount rate also applies to larger ads.) Advertise your small press's newest publications, your own titles or upcoming readings, or maybe salute an author you feel people should be reading, with a few suggested books to buy. And musical acts, advertise your new albums, indie labels your new releases. (We're also cool with donations, real cool.) Email editor@boogcity.com or call 212-842-BOOG(2664) for more information. thanks, David -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 10:13:35 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007)] In-Reply-To: <244584.74644.qm@web31105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Since you (Tisa?) mention Alain Resnais, did you know he just made a marvelous new film called Coeur (in French) but relabeled here as Private Fears in Public Places? It played at IFC in New York City for quite awhile. I don't know where it is available now but it is definitely worth tracking down. Thomas savage wrote: Try D.W. Griffith's Intolerance, if you can find a decent print of it. It's the great film he made immediately after Birth of a Nation, which you can bury if it bothers you, as it should. There is another good one called Orphans Of The Storm. Still, while there's no denying the sinister impact of Birth of a Nation, not only are some of Griffith's films wonderful, they played an important role in the development of film narrative. Regards, Tom Savage Tisa Bryant wrote: I refrained from listing any more directors than I did! I have also had a hard time accepting the cinematic genius of DW Griffith because of the racist narrative he was putting forward using it. Other people are able to make the needed separations in order to see; to say he offends me isn't saying much. For me BIRTH OF A NATION is a feature-length overlay in assaultive practices, and I've never bothered to see anything else he's made because of it. But seeing DJ Spooky's REBIRTH OF A NATION at a special screening in Providence allowed me to see and understand his craft, in terms of what he, technically, was doing with the camera and its cinematic, not national narrative, effects, though we're still (not) reckoning with where the twain did and still meet, on screens around the world. I finally watched all three hours of it two years ago. I was still infuriated, but then I was like, "Oh. That's an iris shot." Still, my response to that as-yet-unspoken call to Griffith was the oft-unappreciated Oscar Micheaux. I do, however, love Steve Erickson's novel invocation of Griffith and cinema, DAYS BETWEEN STATIONS. Though I've seen works from all the directors on your list of omissions (except Ghatak and Sen, so I'm on the move), Chaplin, for instance, isn't part of my body because I've spent scant time watching his films, my four-year tenure at Modern Times Bookstore and left-leaning politics notwithstanding. All the Buster Keaton I've seen in my life has been during a meza plate lunch at Olive Tree on MacDougal & W. 3rd. Busby Berkeley: I've seen "That's Entertainment" profiles on him, then the obvious references to him in Matthew Barney's CREMASTER cycle. If anything, I see for myself a need to revisit these works, since I may simply be having some psycho-trigger issues around all American silent films, thanks to Griffith. This gets conflated into what I see as the aesthetic *scariness* of silent films: contrast, frames per second and jerky motion, mouths moving with no sound, etc. Unintentional eeriness. I saw NOSFERATU as a child at Camp Lapham when I was 8. Keaton's makeup freaks me out. Then, in terms of the gaze, I can't comfortably project myself into that (or the majority of cinematic) landscape(s); it's not *my* neck that cranes back for a kiss from X leading man, nor am I that man, though a project of my own version of PURPLE ROSE OF CAIRO, for instance (what happens when a 1980s black girl steps into a circa 1939 movie) could be very interesting. I do love Julie Dash's short film, ILLUSIONS, for engaging in the old movie/identity conversation with panache. Pierre said something about Americans going for foreign films, and I want to comment on that, briefly, and expand on the above, just to say that I must, for continued mental health, allow myself cinematic escapes from the American national narrative as its perpetuated in film, because there are other possibilities for the image-not-as-metaphor, not as racial or Other marker than the Griffith legacy allows. Something about survival, subjectivity and perspective, than simple swooning. We Americans are quite varied in that respect, and, judging from what I've seen from Francophone African filmmakers (and Vietnamese filmmakers, too, I believe), so are the French. Etc. I do swoon over Lubitsch, though, and Cukor, Wilder, Hawks, Huston, Sturges, Vidor. I especially like b/w films that have that glitter-gloss, like THE SWEET SMELL OF SUCCESS, or BORN YESTERDAY. I also love melodramatic films like Sirk's, and those of his ilk, and enjoy the continuum as evidenced in Fassbinder and Todd Haynes, among others. If the Brattle Theatre was film school for me, my mom was film school K-12. Before AMC on cable, it was all about UHF on weekends for old (30s, 40s, 50s) film. It's been a delight to spend time seeing what the rest of the world was up to, cinematically, during those times, dig the cross-pollination, especially during/after WWII. I also loved/hated the Rock Hudson/Doris Day/Bobby Darin-esque romantic romps. To be that carefree.... I was just working on this quote from Tarkovsky, in which he says that people go to the cinema for time, time spent, not had or lost. For an enhanced living experience. So our lists, if we agree with Tarkovsky, are not ridiculous and to be apologized for or silenced, but, yes, Aryanil, the beginnings of a much bigger, deeper conversation. Thanks for starting this! back to work.... Tisa ********************************** To create form out of the nature of our tasks with the methods of our time—this is our task. Mies van der Rohe On Aug 1, 2007, at 7:46 PM, Aryanil Mukherjee wrote: > I'm the one to be blamed, I started this. My initial 5, or ok, lets say > 10, pertained to Bergman's generation. Now we have names > from virtually every age of cinema. What makes me glad is that > from a "silly" naming game we are now into a movie-mood sharing > specific films, personal experiences, nostalgias etc. > > Great names have come up. Talking about American cinema, > we went as far back as Vertov, but sadly no one mentioned > D W Griffith whom I would call the father of modern cinema. > Also, we forgot Charles Chaplin - he made a lot of films here, in > Chicago > and NY. Going around the world, I can't think of a film director better > known internationally. > > Notable omissions I can think of are - > > Hungary - Zoltan Fabri, Marta Meszaros, Zanussi, > the Czech new wave heros - Milos Forman, Jiri Menzel, Vera Chitilova > France - Louis Malle, Robert Bresson > India - Ritwik Ghatak, Mrinal Sen > Cuba - Tomas Alea > Poland - Roman Polanski > Germany - Volker Schlondroff, Marguerite Von Trotta > Turkey - Yilmaaz Gunay > Iran - Mohsen Makhmalbaf, Zafar Panahi > Brazil - Nelson Pereira > > Aryanil > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tisa Bryant" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 8:07 PM > Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) > > > I just watched L'ECLISSE for the 5th time (I wrote a piece on it; be > out soon), but love the inexplicable actions of THE PASSENGER and > L'AVVENTURA. > > Haven't watched Bergman since last year (AUTUMN SONATA); will return to > him, "my first film love". I think PERSONA was the first I saw of his, > at the Brattle Theater in Cambridge, MA. My film school. I remember > one particular evening, at the end of a failed love affair that hadn't > quite ended, I watched three Bergman films (WILD STRAWBERRIES was one) > in a row. But sadly, I've always attempted to watch THE SEVENTH SEAL > late at night, and I've always fallen asleep. He taught me about > light, dark, silence and the layered frame (I think someone said > something about his depth of field, or some suchness). > > Bergman's women...and Woody Allen's, Godard's, Cassavetes', Fellini's, > etc...it's more than amazing, what these women have done for film, in > film, made visible, palpable...in an expression of the inexpressible > (to quote Blonde Redhead, a propos a Vitti), from director to actor. > didn't a book on Monica Vitti just come out? I remember reading a > review in BookForum, I think. > > My "Indelible Imagemakers" list, in no order, hella long, and really, > it could change tomorrow, and well it should; there are at least 20 > filmmakers for my every mood. As for the top whatever, and voting, > etc? Not interested. I'll leave that to some academy. These folks' > works haunt, mark, stay with me, and I keep returning, seeking them out > for more: > > Antonioni > Bergman > Jean-Pierre Melville > Alain Resnais > Renoir > Fellini > Almodovar > Kubrick > Godard > Kurosawa > Cassavetes > Sembene Ousmane (died last month; was also a novelist) > Bela Tarr > Coppola > Ozu > Jacques Rivette > Billy Wilder > Charles Burnett (and not just for KILLER OF SHEEP) > Satyajit Ray > Flora Gomes (and all the overlooked "African New Wave" filmmakers of > the late 80s -early 90s, along with the "Hong Kong New Wave") > Otto Preminger > Shohei Imamura > Tsai Ming Liang > Chris Marker (I dare!) > Scorcese > Luchino Visconti > Stanley Kwan > Claire Denis > Oscar Micheaux > George Cukor > Chantal Akerman > Nancy Savoca > Fassbinder > Spike Lee > John Sayles > Apichatpong Weerasethakul (let's see, 10 years from now, what's up) > Tarkovsky > Agnes Varda > > It's all so intertextual! That's what makes the ongoing conversation > of cinema so interesting to me. And why the list, really, means > nothing. But I couldn't help it! > > About to watch Pasolini's MAMA ROMA, and Theo Angelopoulos' THE WEEPING > MEADOW; some buyer's on point at the Brooklyn Public Library. I also > really liked Bertolucci's BEFORE THE REVOLUTION. > > Peace and light to the spirits of Igmar Bergman and Antonioni as they > pass through this world to the next, and much thanks to them for > leaving so much of themselves, and their vision, with us. > > Tisa > > ¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨ > ¨ > ¨¨¨¨¨¨¨ > Prose is like a window; fiction is like a door. > But it is not uncommon that he who should come in through the door > jumps in through the window. > > MuXin > translated by Toming Jun Liu > > ¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨ > ¨ > ¨¨¨¨¨¨¨ > On Jul 31, 2007, at 5:20 PM, amy king wrote: > >> John Cassavettes, yes! Someone already wrote Akria Kurosawa, yes? >> >> Anything Krystof Kieslowski. >> >> Dare I throw Chris Marker into the mix? And Wim Wenders? >> >> >> Ruth Lepson wrote: >> and cassavettes & who cd forget 'Nashville' >> http://www.amyking.org/blog >> >> --------------------------------- >> Luggage? GPS? Comic books? >> Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search. >> > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.25/926 - Release Date: > 7/29/2007 11:14 PM > --------------------------------- Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. --------------------------------- Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 15:17:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tisa Bryant Subject: Re: Allen on Bergman In-Reply-To: <15E8C3CC-AFCD-4B54-9409-070AFD06822C@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm waiting for La Notte from le net flix... Watched Pasolini's Mamma Roma, Angelopoulos' The Weeping Meadow, and =20 Fellini's Intervista. Going on an Angelopoulos bender, definitely. =20 He's great! =A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8= =A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8= =A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=20 =A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8 Prose is like a window; fiction is like a door. But it is not uncommon that he who should come in through the door jumps in through the window. MuXin translated by Toming Jun Liu =A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8= =A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8= =A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=20 =A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8 On Aug 6, 2007, at 9:19 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Sitting through those is always a pleasure for me. > Last one was The Passenger, just a week or two > ago. Currently looking forward to sitting through > La Notte and L'Eclisse--again, for the first time > in years. > > Hal > > "The bacon too carries on its modest > love affair." > --Tony Towle > > Halvard Johnson > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > halvard@earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > On Aug 6, 2007, at 1:17 AM, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > >> Has anyone sat through an Antonioni movie recently? > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 12:46:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Re: identity splicing & autopoesis In-Reply-To: <1dec21ae0708060524w727d6f67gbb632172fd1e347d@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline The best work i know re the swarm the great study by Kristen Ross, The Emergence of Social Space Rimbaud and the Paris Commune. Ross presents the swarm across many manifestations and bodies, spaces, objects, ideologies of daily life, and the ways in which the swarm constitutes Rimbaud's poetry as an embodiment in action of the Commune. This is a really fantastic book and I can't recommend it highly enough. And of course, re "identity splicing"--it is Rimbaud who writes "Je est un autre"--"I is an other" "I is somebody else"-- In the Ross book, the swarm is that which is against the State, and in many ways the State is a manifestation of autopoesis, if not, along with corporations, its non plus ultra as THE autopoesis. (And as the blurring between the corporations and the State makes way for their emergence as the autopoesis of the corporate-State fascism currently occurring "before our very eyes".) ("Vice President Haliburton", "Secretary of Defense Blackwater" "Secretary of the Interior Caterpillar" and so forth--) Re heteronyms and identity-splicing there is a great multiplicty of ways in which this may occur. One example is the Yasusada texts, in which Yasusada notes that he wants to make a book "After Spicer"--which is inspired by Spicer's "After Lorca" work. In the Yasusada, as in the Spicer, there are moments in the writing in which the identites merge--and it is very difficult to distinguish if at all where Lorca ends and Spicer begins, and where Spicer ends and Yasusada begins. And that is just one of the multiplicities which perform identity-splicings in the two texts. Ultimately, the activities of these "correspondances" (made literal by the Letters to Lorca, Yasusada's Letter to Spicer)--a term Spicer uses which is picked up by Yasusada--allow for a voyaging among "identities" "authorships" in the Baudelairian sense of both "le Voyage" and "Les Correspondances". Baudelaire's "voyage to the end of the unknown" would lead finally to an unknown author--a kind of identity splicing in reverse--in which by a continual splicing and resplicing of elements, the "single author" has vanished, into the nameless--one/many--a dispersion into particles which from and reform continually different swarms of "identity"--manifesting in an endless series of texts "after"-- The writing "after" makes room, space for this endless swarming outwards proliferartion--"after' is productive of series, not as linear procession, but as a rhizome-- I sometimes think of "after" as something the opposite of "post"--as "post" is a vague posting of something occurring when that which preceded it is in a sense dead--"post mortem"--it seems to be a rupture with the dead, ended, preceding events, autopoesis, yet it carries within it the viruses which inhabited the former "stage" of development. In other words, what a "post" constructs is a "post mortem effects"--which, having as its "center" a corpse, "lying in state"--generates a "corpus" of work which is based on a machinery of Death---a "killing off" as it were of all entities not subsumed under its rubric of autopoesis. A "term limit" is set, an "event horizon" which means the constructing of borders, walls--and necessitates a form of censure or censoring activity, in order to maintain a "status quo" within a hierarchical structuring of "the chain of commands" delivered from "top" to bottom". The problem with this closed system is that after a certain point it reaches the state at which entropy sets in--a steady State. Opposed to this, at leatst in this paltry formulation i amessaying, opposed to his is the kind of swarming generated by the activity of "after". Rather than heading to a "steady State of entropical finality"--the "after" swarms and moves onwo/ards, encapsulating ever more "identities" and splicings of these which in turn produce further slicings, a nomadic rhizomatic activity which proliferates "texts without authors",as "authors" may be anonymous, or pseudonymous, splicings as in the Pessoa cases. This activity has in fact a historical foundation, the examples being found in travel literature of the 18th century, in which anonymity and pseudonymity play a great role. Indeed, an author will produce a text, itself made up of plagiarized passages, exagerations, outright falsehoods at times, and often enough these are included already in the pages plagiarized. The text may appear under a 'real --legal--name" or a psuedonym. It is translated immediately into other langages as the rage for and need of travel accounts is crucial to an "age of discovery"--voyages into the then "unknown"--seeking for sometimes anactual place, others unkwoingly chasing chimeras until they in turn "discover" where they are is a "nowhere". The translation, sometimes done by the "orgianl author", sometimes bya bootlegger--is done ina more or less rough fasion--and thn translated again into another language via another translator or the one of the first--sometimes continuing with the original "name", sometimes under yet another name, adopted to the society which is going to be reading th text. This rhizomatic swarming can also operate back into the original language--texts that may be translated by the "original author" under whatever name has been used, who becomes the translator--under another name, of his own work into another language. The translation having altered a number of things--is then translated back into the first language, appearing with a different title and a different author's name, as a "new book from the French"as it were. The identity splicing of this continual swarm of different authors, different languages, translators and titles and shifts in the text with each swarm into another language--another unknown--proliferates the identity splicing as a continual play of "differents"--who may in fact be one person in one body--yet is in print many names producing two translators,and three texts in two languages. These three texts in their turn become part of the immenese reserve, ever proliferating, of travel books from which further "authors" in turn plagiarize, alter, misquote deliberately or not--and on and on and on this goes, creating ever more 'voyages" by ever more "authors" who many of them have never left their studies, their writing desks. (Out of this huge seething, teeming ocean of texts their emerged at one end of the spectrum the novel. Daniel Defoe, who produced roughly two hundreds texts, many many authors, many years work of identity splicings being carried out with great aplomb--finally reached the shores of th novel with "the true account" of Robinson Crusoe. The text in the novel purports to a "true account" of actual events by a fictional author (Robinson Crusoe)--much as the name Yasusada turns out to belong to a fictional personage, pointing towards an "autho"r who has swarmed into this being from elsewheres known or unknown or both together, a splicing of the known and unknown into yet another "author" and "text". And a text which among many allusions and claims, imagines itself creating a text "after Spicer's After Lorca" among many other texts which have disappeared in transit, been left out by the "editor/s" and "translators"--a travel through many identity splicings traveling through the Orphic underworlds , emerging, and submerging again, a negentropic ever spiralling activity of the swarming "names" of "identies/idenity splicings". These voyages into the unknowns of identity splicings, others, "differents", has been "the story of my life". In various countries at various times, the accusation of a forged or stolen pass port has been made to me--that is, one is not who one's identity papers claim one is. Sometimes this turns out to be a case of "mistaken identity"--which often makes things more suspicious depending on whom one is thought to be. More often, it is a riddle which is well nigh unsolvable--if this person cannot prove with official documents who they are-who are they? If their documents are stolen or forged--does one have any confidence that they will reveal a "real identity"? Or a continual series of false claims, other identities, further papers, documents, leading further afield or back, in a circle, to the rebus without reference or signification before one? To further complicate things, hand writing at the time of interest, interrogation--often does not match that which was made at the time of signing. Once in jail, three seperate finger printings produced no match among them. The identity via fingerprints changed from one imprinting to another. So who is it makes the shadow that walks beside one? Who is it that looks back from the other side of the mirror through which Orpheus and company travel into the underworld? All these swarming splicing identities traveling among "names" and "locations' in texts, in space, in time-- Dmitry Prigov, recently discussed on this list upon the sad ocaission of his 'death" physically--created splicings of identities that continue to proliferate--in fact, the Russian writer Mikhail Epstein has posited the hypothesis that Prigov--and/or also another Russian writer, Bitov- is the "real author" at the core of the Yasusada texts-because in part each of these writers had intended to produce "Japanese" texts in Russian--which never appeared in Russian--and yet did appear in English, as the Yasusada, transferred to the American poet Kent Johnson while he was working on an anthology which included these writers and met with them during a conference in Leningrad--, and carried by him to the "names of the translators" listed in the Yasusada texts-- who proceed to translate the never-to--appear Russian texts into an English which purports to be translated from the Japanese. In my own case, I have even without being the author--produced via the (some very creative) "mis/readings" of "authorities" of one's "profile" literally as one's appearance, and also as one's "papers, documents", fingerprints, produced several "identities" and "unknowns" which swarm around and in and through me--in turn creating texts themselves of varying identities of "authorship". Yet "who" is "the one sole author" who is "David Chirot"? Apparently its for some authorities "unknown", "forged" "stolen" a "complete mystery", "a spy", a "terrorist", an "associate of outlawed group" and so forth. The possibility of deportation exists--yes, but to where?--as Baudelaire would say (title in English)--"Anywhere out of this World"! Given the history of the travel literature and the forms of proliferations, swarms, in Pessoa, Rimbaud, Yasusada-, Spicer--Epstein, Prigov, Bitov, Johnson, a pseudonymous author said to be "the author" of Yasusada--given the history and examples, one may be able to see the swarms of identity splicings as ways of subverting the entropical State-Corporate autopoesis. With the signing into Law today, the democrats having capitulated yet again to the President, with the signing into Law of what had been illegal wire tappings--one finds yet another attack as it were by the autopoesis of a continually more centralized-in-the-office-of the-President against the swarm of proliferating identities which essay the creation of lines of flight which elude the steady State of Control. For poetry, for writing, the traveling swarm is one strategy to resist and to create others, "differents" which elude the continual efforts to make cultural efforts conform to various formations of the autopoesis steady State. In a time in which the crack down on identity is very severe--profiling, "illegal aliens", "suspected terrorists"--"rendition flights"--questions of torture, indefinite incarceration without charges--the continual asking by faceless businesses for information in order to apply for things which proliferate one' s name on cards which can at any time be stolen--and yet you, the one whose name appears, are taken to task and entered into the system also--by association--you find yourself ocoked up as it were ahead of time--your having been "already identified" and al that is needed if circumstances call for it is a "crime" with which to "match" you. In such an environment the swarming of splicings of identity indeed seem ever more a necessity, Indeed, when such things lead to actual arrests, one has learned that one has entered a zone in which the challenge to authority--is as much their creation as one's own. So without even intending it, one has produced yet another "author"--who intends to "get to the bottom" of one's identity, one's text. The "author" one has unwittingly provoked into action, is it a monster, a Frankenstein--or an ally--a friend? The very author one creates may in turn erase one's identity--alter it, edit it, translate it--take "possesion"--or one may be "possessed by it"--and in this swarming struggle among 'authors" and "identities", "texts"--what is that will come "after"--"who's gonna come for you/bad boys /bad boys, who's gonna come for you"--or, turning the swarm on the flailing "author"--seeing it 'explode into thin air"--and become a rain of particles--creating materials for further splicings . . .which voyage in to ever more unknowns . . . unknown authors . . . producing "texts" as signs from the places beyond formations, formulas, forms, beyond the autopoesis realms until . . . On this day of Hiroshima-- "Furthermore, when we speak the word "life," it must be understood we are not referring to life as we know it from its surface of fact, but to that fragile, fluctuating center which forms never reach. And if there is still one hellish, truly accursed thing in our time, it is our artistic dallying with forms, instead of being like victims burnt at the stake, signaling through the flames." --Antonin Artaud, "PREFACE: The Theater and Culture" The Theater and its Double Prince, je congnois tout en somme Prince, in sum I know all things Je congnois coulourez et blesmes I know the well made-up and the blemished pale Je congnois Mort qui tout consomme I know Death who dines on us all Je congnois tout fors que moy mesmes I know everything but myself. Francois Villon, "Ballade" Paris, 15th Century "Je est un autre" "Arthur Rimbaud" On 8/6/07, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > > " this is where the swarm intelligence and autopoesis theory comes > > in, or emergent patterns... > > I do not thing what is being described is such a new process. Pessoa's > heteronyms are the most prominent example of it. > > I am just reading Charles Bernstein's interview with Douglas Messerli's on > Messerli's poetry in "My Year 2005: Terrifying Times," just published by > Green Integer. Messerli elaborates on his poetry and his other work as > playright, novelist, publisher of books, etc. completely in heteronymic > terms. > > Ciao, > > Murat > > On 8/5/07, Eireene Nealand wrote: > > > > i think i saw something on the list about identity splicing earlier, > > so I'm trying to track it down as well as to hear about any other work > > related to this. > > > > it's hard to explain what identity splicing is yet, but I think that > > Juliana Spahr and Eugene Ostashevsky are doing it. > > > > Juliana Spahr (in Everything With Lungs) seems to have shown how > > (since the advent of chaos theory) it seems to be appropriate to cycle > > through everything else in order to deal with your own identity. > > > > Eugene Ostashevsky, with his DJ Spinoza series, suggestst that some > > kind of synchonizing would be in order to deal with what I think Allen > > Sondheim has been calling dispersed identity. > > > > > > 2) this is where the swarm intelligence and autopoesis theory comes > > in, or emergent patterns... > > > > 3) eventually, i'll try to trace all of this back to explain how it's > > the next step after Samuel Becket and Gertrude Stein, who made > > articulations in the "stream of consciousness" and started showing us > > mixable atoms... > > > > In fact it is much more fun to just look at people figuring all of > > this out creatively though, so if anyone knows of any good works on > > this, i'd be much obliged. > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 11:19:08 -0700 Reply-To: sanjdoller@gmail.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: sandra de 1913 Subject: Shin Yu Pai's Sightings reviewed at Rain Taxi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline i'm tickled to pass along a link to the new review of a 1913 Press title--Shin Yu Pai's Sightings--reviewed by Lucas Klein on Rain Taxi's web: http://www.raintaxi.com/online/2007summer/shinyupai.shtml ...go Shin Yu. yrs, sandra de 1913 ps. to order the book directly from 1913 Press, Small Press Distribution, or the author (rather than Amazon, as Rain Taxi has it linked), pls go here: http://journal1913.org/sightings.html -- http://www.journal1913.org http://www.1913press.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 21:44:28 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Les Rencontres Internationales Subject: Fwd: RIPBM ::: Call for entries ::: film video multimedia ::: in Paris, in Berlin, in Madrid [\\\-> ! <-///] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear all, Please find below the Call for entries we are now circulating for the 14th "Rencontres internationales Paris/Berlin/Madrid" that will take place from the 22nd of November to the 1st of December in Paris at the Centre Pompidou, the Jeu de Paume national museum and other location. This piece of information is released so that artists, filmmakers, and collectives may submit their works. General information regarding the Rencontres Internationales is posted on our website, at : http://art-action.org Please feel free to forward this information as widely as possible and to contact us for any further information. Best wishes The Festival team ============================================== ||||| CALL FOR ENTRIES: UNTIL THE 15th OF AUGUST, 2007 ||||| RENCONTRES INTERNATIONALES PARIS/BERLIN/MADRID ||||| FILM / VIDEO / MULTIMEDIA ||||| http://art-action.org/en_info_appel.htm *** Please forward this information as widely as possible *** The 'Rencontres Internationales' will take place in Paris in November 2007, at the Centre Pompidou, at the Jeu de Paume national museum and in other key locations. The same program will be presented in Madrid in April 2008 and in Berlin in June 2008. Those three events will propose an international programming focusing on new cinema, video and multimedia, gathering works of artists and filmmakers acknowledged on the international scene along with young artists and not much distributed filmmakers. + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + ANY INDIVIDUAL OR ORGANISATION CAN SUBMIT ONE OR SEVERAL PROPOSALS. THE CALL FOR ENTRIES IS OPEN TO FILM, VIDEO AND MULTIMEDIA CYCLES, without any restriction of length or genre. All submissions are free, without any limitation of geographic origin. + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + CINEMA AND VIDEO CYCLES (all film and video formats) * Video / Video art / Experimental video * Experimental Film * Documentary, experimental documentary * Fiction - short, medium and feature length * Animation movie MULTIMEDIA CYCLES * Installation * Net art * Performance, concert + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + Video and film submissions are received on DVD. ALL submissions are sent by postal mail, enclosed with a filled-in ONLINE ENTRY FORM, UNTIL THE 15th of AUGUST, 2007. Entry forms and information regarding the 'Rencontres internationales Paris/Berlin/Madrid' are available on our website http://art-action.org/en_info_appel.htm + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + The 'Rencontres Internationales' offer more than a simple presentation of the works. They introduce an intercultural forum gathering various guests from all over the world - artists and filmmakers, institutions and emerging organisations - to testify of the vivacity of creation and its distribution, but also of the artistic and cultural contexts that often are experiencing deep changes. The festival reflects specificities and crossings of art practices between new cinema and contemporary art, explores media art practices and their critical purposes, and work out this necessary time when points of view meet and are exchanged. The festival aims at presenting those works to a broad audience, at creating circulations between different art practices and between different audiences, as well as creating new exchanges between artists, filmmakers and professionals. The 'Rencontres Internationales Paris/Berlin/Madrid', an event without competition, are supported by French, German, Spanish and international cultural institutions. http://art-action.org/en_soutien.htm PLEASE FEEL FREE TO SPREAD OUT THIS PIECE OF INFORMATION to creative organizations, art networks, production companies, artists and filmmakers you are in contact with. Best wishes. The Rencontres Internationales -- Les Rencontres Internationales Paris/Berlin/Madrid #14 > Paris > Centre Pompidou, Jeu de Paume, Cinéma Entrepôt 22 nov. - 1er dec. | 22. Nov - 1. Dez. | Nov. 25th - Dec. 1st ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 18:42:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Al Filreis Subject: Rothenberg among Writers House Fellows '08 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The community of writers and artists at the Kelly Writers House is pleased and proud to announce our three new Writers House Fellows for spring 2008: February 18-19, 2008: Art Spiegelman March 24-25, 2008: Lynne Sharon Schwartz April 28-29, 2008: Jerome Rothenberg All events are free and open to the public - and all take place at the Kelly Writers House, 3805 Locust Walk, Philadelphia. Writers House Fellows is made possible by a generous grant from Paul Kelly. More information: http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~whfellow/ previous Writers House Fellows: John McPhee 2007 Jamacia Kincaid Donald Hall Richard Ford 2006 Cynthia Ozick Ian Frazier Adrienne Rich 2005 E. L. Doctorow Roger Angell Lyn Hejinian 2004 Russell Banks James Alan McPherson Susan Sontag 2003 Walter Bernstein Laurie Anderson John Ashbery 2002 Charles Fuller Michael Cunningham June Jordan 2001 David Sedaris Tony Kushner Grace Paley 2000 Robert Creeley John Edgar Wideman Gay Talese 1999 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 18:44:05 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: new Sixties journal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit still no one answered me wHAT IS A PUBLIC INTELLECTUAL On Sat, 4 Aug 2007 13:06:31 -0400 ALDON L NIELSEN writes: > for me, the sixties really began with the assasination of JFK and > ended with > the advent of disco -- but that's just how I remember it -- which > must mean I > wasn't there -- > > >On Sat, 4 Aug 2007 08:00:00 -0800 Joel Weishaus > wrote: > > > > Steve: > > > > How about: Each decade begins in the middle of itself. > > > > Thus, "the 60s" were 1965-1975. At least that's the way I > remember (or don't > remember) them. > > > > Best, > > Joel > > > > > > > > Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 13:41:11 -0400 > > From: "steve d. dalachinsky" > > Subject: Re: CFP: new Sixties Journal from Routledge > > > > each decade more or less begins in middle of preceeding one > > in the case of the 60's it begain around 63 as we interpret it > and > > ended around 73 > > as we saw it then > > On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 10:26:21 -0700 Catherine Daly > > > writes: > > > it is the long sixties, so it includes the 50s and 70s; Barry S > is > > > saying > > > that this is the late modern period > > > > > > just like the long sixteenth century is the former baroque > period > > > called the > > > early modern period > > > > > > actually this sort of jockeying for position & "new areas" seems > > > > like > > > academia being entrepreneurial > > > > > > -- > > > All best, > > > Catherine Daly > > > c.a.b.daly@gmail.com > > > > > > > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > > We are enslaved by > what makes us free -- intolerable > paradox at the heart of speech. > --Robert Kelly > > Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > > Aldon L. Nielsen > Kelly Professor of American Literature > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > ty Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 19:13:32 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: new Sixties journal In-Reply-To: <20070806.190358.588.42.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On Aug 6, 2007, at 3:44 PM, steve d. dalachinsky wrote: > still no one answered me wHAT IS A PUBLIC INTELLECTUAL A person whose practice of the intellect is made public through publication, for example, in the NY Times op=ed pages, or French public radio, or magazines whose practice it is to publish works produced by analysis, logic, etc. > G.H.B. = to the task ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 23:02:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: K. Johnson on Stinky Limes in the Blogosphere Comments: To: Poetryetc poetry and poetics , "BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK" , ImitaPo Memebers Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sneak peek to the Fall issue of BlazeVOX2k7: Kent Johnson responds to the recent row on Lime Trees. http://www.blazevox.org/072-kj.htm -- Best, Geoffrey Geoffrey Gatza Editor & Publisher ------------------------------------- BlazeVOX [ books ] Publisher of weird little books -------------------------------------- editor@blazevox.org http://www.blazevox.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 23:44:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tisa Bryant Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007)] In-Reply-To: <267700.96548.qm@web31107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks, Tom, and yes, I did see Private Fears in Public Places at IFC, =20= and really loved it. I'm glad he's still working with theatrical =20 staging in his films, and I was also intrigued by how smooth his =20 narrative line is. I was ready to work harder, but was also just happy =20= to feel charmed by it. A kind of pathetic magicalism. I loved the =20 color, and the transparencies of emotion, season, as well as secret =20 desire/pasts. Lots of fun. I wish I spoke better french, though. =20 Something about the title of the film (in French) confused me. I think my favorite films of his are Mon Oncle d'Amerique, Stavisky, =20 and Providence. Well, Muriel, too. And Night and Fog. Okay. I love =20= all I've seen of his films. I haven't seen Pas sur le Bouche yet, =20 though. Gotta move it up in my queue. It's buried. I'll also check out Griffith's other films; thanks for the suggestions. Best, Tisa ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To see your drama clearly is to be liberated from it. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ On Aug 6, 2007, at 1:13 PM, Thomas savage wrote: > Since you (Tisa?) mention Alain Resnais, did you know he just made a =20= > marvelous new film called Coeur (in French) but relabeled here as =20 > Private Fears in Public Places? It played at IFC in New York City for = =20 > quite awhile. I don't know where it is available now but it is =20 > definitely worth tracking down. > > Thomas savage wrote: Try D.W. Griffith's =20 > Intolerance, if you can find a decent print of it. It's the great film = =20 > he made immediately after Birth of a Nation, which you can bury if it =20= > bothers you, as it should. There is another good one called Orphans Of = =20 > The Storm. Still, while there's no denying the sinister impact of =20 > Birth of a Nation, not only are some of Griffith's films wonderful, =20= > they played an important role in the development of film narrative. =20= > Regards, Tom Savage > > Tisa Bryant wrote: I refrained from listing any more directors than I =20= > did! > > I have also had a hard time accepting the cinematic genius of DW > Griffith because of the racist narrative he was putting forward using > it. Other people are able to make the needed separations in order to > see; to say he offends me isn't saying much. For me BIRTH OF A NATION > is a feature-length overlay in assaultive practices, and I've never > bothered to see anything else he's made because of it. But seeing DJ > Spooky's REBIRTH OF A NATION at a special screening in Providence > allowed me to see and understand his craft, in terms of what he, > technically, was doing with the camera and its cinematic, not national > narrative, effects, though we're still (not) reckoning with where the > twain did and still meet, on screens around the world. I finally > watched all three hours of it two years ago. I was still infuriated, > but then I was like, "Oh. That's an iris shot." Still, my response to > that as-yet-unspoken call to Griffith was the oft-unappreciated Oscar > Micheaux. I do, however, love Steve Erickson's novel invocation of > Griffith and cinema, DAYS BETWEEN STATIONS. > > Though I've seen works from all the directors on your list of = omissions > (except Ghatak and Sen, so I'm on the move), Chaplin, for instance, > isn't part of my body because I've spent scant time watching his = films, > my four-year tenure at Modern Times Bookstore and left-leaning = politics > notwithstanding. All the Buster Keaton I've seen in my life has been > during a meza plate lunch at Olive Tree on MacDougal & W. 3rd. Busby > Berkeley: I've seen "That's Entertainment" profiles on him, then the > obvious references to him in Matthew Barney's CREMASTER cycle. If > anything, I see for myself a need to revisit these works, since I may > simply be having some psycho-trigger issues around all American silent > films, thanks to Griffith. This gets conflated into what I see as the > aesthetic *scariness* of silent films: contrast, frames per second and > jerky motion, mouths moving with no sound, etc. Unintentional > eeriness. I saw NOSFERATU as a child at Camp Lapham when I was 8. > Keaton's makeup freaks me out. Then, in terms of the gaze, I can't > comfortably project myself into that (or the majority of cinematic) > landscape(s); it's not *my* neck that cranes back for a kiss from X > leading man, nor am I that man, though a project of my own version of > PURPLE ROSE OF CAIRO, for instance (what happens when a 1980s black > girl steps into a circa 1939 movie) could be very interesting. I do > love Julie Dash's short film, ILLUSIONS, for engaging in the old > movie/identity conversation with panache. > > Pierre said something about Americans going for foreign films, and I > want to comment on that, briefly, and expand on the above, just to say > that I must, for continued mental health, allow myself cinematic > escapes from the American national narrative as its perpetuated in > film, because there are other possibilities for the > image-not-as-metaphor, not as racial or Other marker than the Griffith > legacy allows. Something about survival, subjectivity and perspective, > than simple swooning. We Americans are quite varied in that respect, > and, judging from what I've seen from Francophone African filmmakers > (and Vietnamese filmmakers, too, I believe), so are the French. Etc. > > I do swoon over Lubitsch, though, and Cukor, Wilder, Hawks, Huston, > Sturges, Vidor. I especially like b/w films that have that > glitter-gloss, like THE SWEET SMELL OF SUCCESS, or BORN YESTERDAY. I > also love melodramatic films like Sirk's, and those of his ilk, and > enjoy the continuum as evidenced in Fassbinder and Todd Haynes, among > others. If the Brattle Theatre was film school for me, my mom was film > school K-12. Before AMC on cable, it was all about UHF on weekends for > old (30s, 40s, 50s) film. It's been a delight to spend time seeing > what the rest of the world was up to, cinematically, during those > times, dig the cross-pollination, especially during/after WWII. I > also loved/hated the Rock Hudson/Doris Day/Bobby Darin-esque romantic > romps. To be that carefree.... > > I was just working on this quote from Tarkovsky, in which he says that > people go to the cinema for time, time spent, not had or lost. For an > enhanced living experience. > > So our lists, if we agree with Tarkovsky, are not ridiculous and to be > apologized for or silenced, but, yes, Aryanil, the beginnings of a = much > bigger, deeper conversation. > > Thanks for starting this! > > back to work.... > > Tisa > ********************************** > To create form out of the nature of our tasks with the methods of our > time=97this is our task. > > Mies van der Rohe > On Aug 1, 2007, at 7:46 PM, Aryanil Mukherjee wrote: > >> I'm the one to be blamed, I started this. My initial 5, or ok, lets =20= >> say >> 10, pertained to Bergman's generation. Now we have names >> from virtually every age of cinema. What makes me glad is that >> from a "silly" naming game we are now into a movie-mood sharing >> specific films, personal experiences, nostalgias etc. >> >> Great names have come up. Talking about American cinema, >> we went as far back as Vertov, but sadly no one mentioned >> D W Griffith whom I would call the father of modern cinema. >> Also, we forgot Charles Chaplin - he made a lot of films here, in >> Chicago >> and NY. Going around the world, I can't think of a film director =20 >> better >> known internationally. >> >> Notable omissions I can think of are - >> >> Hungary - Zoltan Fabri, Marta Meszaros, Zanussi, >> the Czech new wave heros - Milos Forman, Jiri Menzel, Vera Chitilova >> France - Louis Malle, Robert Bresson >> India - Ritwik Ghatak, Mrinal Sen >> Cuba - Tomas Alea >> Poland - Roman Polanski >> Germany - Volker Schlondroff, Marguerite Von Trotta >> Turkey - Yilmaaz Gunay >> Iran - Mohsen Makhmalbaf, Zafar Panahi >> Brazil - Nelson Pereira >> >> Aryanil >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tisa Bryant" >> To: > >> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 8:07 PM >> Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) >> >> >> I just watched L'ECLISSE for the 5th time (I wrote a piece on it; be >> out soon), but love the inexplicable actions of THE PASSENGER and >> L'AVVENTURA. >> >> Haven't watched Bergman since last year (AUTUMN SONATA); will return =20= >> to >> him, "my first film love". I think PERSONA was the first I saw of = his, >> at the Brattle Theater in Cambridge, MA. My film school. I remember >> one particular evening, at the end of a failed love affair that = hadn't >> quite ended, I watched three Bergman films (WILD STRAWBERRIES was = one) >> in a row. But sadly, I've always attempted to watch THE SEVENTH SEAL >> late at night, and I've always fallen asleep. He taught me about >> light, dark, silence and the layered frame (I think someone said >> something about his depth of field, or some suchness). >> >> Bergman's women...and Woody Allen's, Godard's, Cassavetes', = Fellini's, >> etc...it's more than amazing, what these women have done for film, in >> film, made visible, palpable...in an expression of the inexpressible >> (to quote Blonde Redhead, a propos a Vitti), from director to actor. >> didn't a book on Monica Vitti just come out? I remember reading a >> review in BookForum, I think. >> >> My "Indelible Imagemakers" list, in no order, hella long, and really, >> it could change tomorrow, and well it should; there are at least 20 >> filmmakers for my every mood. As for the top whatever, and voting, >> etc? Not interested. I'll leave that to some academy. These folks' >> works haunt, mark, stay with me, and I keep returning, seeking them =20= >> out >> for more: >> >> Antonioni >> Bergman >> Jean-Pierre Melville >> Alain Resnais >> Renoir >> Fellini >> Almodovar >> Kubrick >> Godard >> Kurosawa >> Cassavetes >> Sembene Ousmane (died last month; was also a novelist) >> Bela Tarr >> Coppola >> Ozu >> Jacques Rivette >> Billy Wilder >> Charles Burnett (and not just for KILLER OF SHEEP) >> Satyajit Ray >> Flora Gomes (and all the overlooked "African New Wave" filmmakers of >> the late 80s -early 90s, along with the "Hong Kong New Wave") >> Otto Preminger >> Shohei Imamura >> Tsai Ming Liang >> Chris Marker (I dare!) >> Scorcese >> Luchino Visconti >> Stanley Kwan >> Claire Denis >> Oscar Micheaux >> George Cukor >> Chantal Akerman >> Nancy Savoca >> Fassbinder >> Spike Lee >> John Sayles >> Apichatpong Weerasethakul (let's see, 10 years from now, what's up) >> Tarkovsky >> Agnes Varda >> >> It's all so intertextual! That's what makes the ongoing conversation >> of cinema so interesting to me. And why the list, really, means >> nothing. But I couldn't help it! >> >> About to watch Pasolini's MAMA ROMA, and Theo Angelopoulos' THE =20 >> WEEPING >> MEADOW; some buyer's on point at the Brooklyn Public Library. I also >> really liked Bertolucci's BEFORE THE REVOLUTION. >> >> Peace and light to the spirits of Igmar Bergman and Antonioni as they >> pass through this world to the next, and much thanks to them for >> leaving so much of themselves, and their vision, with us. >> >> Tisa >> >> = =A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8= =A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8= =A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=20 >> =A8 >> =A8 >> =A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8 >> Prose is like a window; fiction is like a door. >> But it is not uncommon that he who should come in through the door >> jumps in through the window. >> >> MuXin >> translated by Toming Jun Liu >> >> = =A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8= =A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8= =A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=20 >> =A8 >> =A8 >> =A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8 >> On Jul 31, 2007, at 5:20 PM, amy king wrote: >> >>> John Cassavettes, yes! Someone already wrote Akria Kurosawa, yes? >>> >>> Anything Krystof Kieslowski. >>> >>> Dare I throw Chris Marker into the mix? And Wim Wenders? >>> >>> >>> Ruth Lepson wrote: >>> and cassavettes & who cd forget 'Nashville' >>> http://www.amyking.org/blog >>> >>> --------------------------------- >>> Luggage? GPS? Comic books? >>> Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search. >>> >> >> >> >> --=20 >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.25/926 - Release Date: >> 7/29/2007 11:14 PM >> > > > > --------------------------------- > Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your = story. > Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web =20= > links. > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 13:24:12 +0900 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Glass Subject: Japan Times Review (by Donald Richie) of Masako's Story; Surviving the Atomic Bombing of Hiroshima MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/fb20070805dr.html Or go to www.ahadadabooks.com and read it there. Jess ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 21:40:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Matt Henriksen Subject: The Burning Chair Readings Fall 2007 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Visit The Burning Chair Blog @ typomag.com/burningchair.com = =0A=0AVisit The Burning Chair Blog @ typomag.com/burningchair.com=0A=0A=0A= =0A@ The Fall Caf=E9, Fridays=0A7:30 PM=0A=0A=0AAugust 17th - Michael=0ARob= ins & Dara Wier=0A=0A=0ASeptember 14th - David Goldstein & Genya Turovskaya= =0A=0A=0AOctober 12th - Joseph=0ABradshaw & Ken Rumble=0A=0A=0ANovember 16t= h - Paige Ackerson-Kiely, Lily Brown & Elizabeth Robinson=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A= =0A@ Jimmy=92s No. 43 Stage, 8=0APM=0A=0A=0AAugust 31st - Frank=0ASherlock = & David Shapiro=0A=0A=0ASeptember 28th - Dorothea Lasky & Laura Solomon=0A= =0A=0AOctober 26th - Cynthia=0ACruz & Karla Kelsey=0A=0A=0ANovember 30th - = Maureen Alsop & Jean Valentine=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0AThe Fall Caf=E9=0A=0A=0A30= 7 Smith Street=0A=0A=0Abetween Union &=0APresident=0A=0A=0ACarroll Gardens,= Brooklyn=0A=0A=0AF/G to Carroll=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0AJimmy=92s No.43 Stage=0A= =0A=0A43 East 7th=0AStreet=0A=0A=0Abetween 2nd=0A& 3rd Avenues=0A=0A=0ANYC= =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AThe Burning Chair Readings=0A=0A=0A=0Acontact: Matt= hew Henriksen=0A=0A=0A=0Amatt@typomag.com=0A=0A=0A=0A917-478-5682=0A =0A=0A= =0ABorn in=0APortland, Oregon, Michael Robins is the author of The Next Set= tlement (University of North Texas Press, 2007), which was selected for the= Vassar Miller Prize in Poetry. He=0Aholds degrees from the University of O= regon and the University of Massachusetts=0AAmherst, and his poems have rec= ently appeared or are forthcoming in Boston Review, The Cincinnati Review, = Denver Quarterly, LUNA, Third Coast and elsewhere. He lives in=0AChicago an= d teaches at Columbia College.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0ADara Wier's books inclu= de Remnants of Hannah (Wave=0ABooks 2006); Reverse Rapture (Verse Press 200= 5); Hat on a Pond=0A(Verse Press, 2002) and Voyages in English (Carnegie Me= llon U. Press,=0A2001). A limited edition, (X in Fix),=0Aa selection of 5 = longer poems, including a section from Reverse Rapture,=0Ais printed in Rai= nTaxi=92s Brainstorm series. Recent poems can be found in=0AAmerican Poetry= Review, New American Writing, Volt, Massachusetts Review,=0AThe Melic, The= Canary, Painted Bride Quarterly, Mississippi Review, slope,=0AHollins Crit= ic, Seattle Review, Turnrow, Hunger Mountain, Cincinnati Review,=0ADenver Q= uarterly, Octopus, Conduit, Crazyhorse, Court Green and Gulf=0ACoast. She w= orks as a member of the poetry faculty and director of the MFA=0Aprogram fo= r poets and writers at the University of Massachusetts Amherst. Her=0Abook,= Reverse Rapture has been recently awarded The Poetry Center &=0AAmerican P= oetry Archives 2006 book of the year prize.=0A=0A=0A=0AJoseph Bradshaw was = born in Caldwell, Idaho, and grew up up and down the west coast. From 2002 = to 2006 he co-edited FO(A)RM Magazine and co-curated the Spare Room reading= series in Portland. A chapbook, The Way Birds Become, was recently publish= ed by Weather Press. His poetry and reviews can be found in current or fort= hcoming issues of Cannibal, Cultural Society, Denver Quarterly, Jacket, Mir= age #4 / Period(ical), and elsewhere. He currently lives in Iowa City.=0A= =0A=0ADavid B. Goldstein is the author of a chapbook, Been Raw Diction (Dus= ie), and his poetry has appeared in numerous journals, including The Paris = Review, Jubilat, Typo, Epoch, Alice Blue Review, and Pinstripe Fedora. He r= ecently joined the faculty of York University in Toronto, where he teaches = Renaissance literature, creative writing, and food studies.=0A=0A=0AGenya T= urovskaya is the author of the chapbook The Tides, recently published by Oc= topus Books. Her poetry and translations from Russian have appeared in Con= junctions, Chicago Review, jubilat, Landfall, A Public Space and other publ= ications. She lives in Brooklyn, and is an editor at Ugly Duckling Presse.= =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AKen Rumble is the author of Key Bridge (Carol= ina Wren Press, 2007) and marketing director of the Green Hill Center for N= orth Carolina Art. He is currently working on a book with his father about= the earth's atmosphere & Antarctica. His poems have been published in Par= akeet, Cutbank, Fascicle, Typo, Octopus, XConnect, Coconut, and others.=0A= =0A=0APaige Ackerson-Kiely was born in October of 1975 at the behest of her= =0Aparents in Biddeford, Maine. Her first book, In No One's Land=0Awon the= 2006 Sawtooth Poetry Prize. She currently resides in=0AVermont, where she= is employed selling wine, and is at work on a second=0Amanuscript of poems= entitled My Love is a Dead Arctic Explorer, and a=0Anovel about infanticid= e.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0ALily Brown holds an MFA from Saint Mary's College a= nd=0Acurrently lives in San Francisco. Her poems have been published or ar= e=0Aforthcoming in Typo, Octopus, Fence, Cannibal, Tarpaulin Sky, Handsome= =0Aand Coconut. Octopus Books published her chapbook, The=0ARenaissance Sh= eet, in early 2007.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0AElizabeth Robinson is the author o= f 8 books of poetry,=0Amost recently Under That Silky Roof (Burning Deck Pr= ess) and Apostrophe=0A(Apogee Press). The Orphan and its=0ARelations is fo= rthcoming from Fence Books in 2008. Robinson co-edits EtherDome Press and= =0AInstance Books and lives in Boulder, Colorado.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A= =0A=0A=0ADavid Shapiro=92s New and Selected Poems (1965-2006)=0Aemerged fro= m Overlook Press in 2007. In=0Aaddition to his many books, Shapiro has pub= lished art criticism and poetry in The=0ANew Yorker, The Paris Review, and = Artforum. He has received a fellowship from the=0ANational endowment for t= he Arts, the Zabel Prize for Experimental Poetry from=0Athe American Academ= y of Arts and Letters, and a nomination for a National Book=0AAward in 1971= . He has edited volumes of=0Aaesthetics, translated Alberti=92s poems abou= t Picasso, collaborated with Rudy=0ABurckhardt on three films, and had a pl= ay produced at the Kitchen called =93Two=0ABoys on the Bus.=94 A professio= nal=0Aviolinist in his youth, he now writes in Riverdale, New York, where h= e lives=0Awith his wife Lindsay.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AFrank Sherlock is the author= of Wounds in an Imaginary Nature=0AShow (Night Flag Press), Spring Diet of= Flowers at Night (Mooncalf=0APress), ISO (furniture press) and 13 (Ixnay P= ress). Past=0Acollaborations include work with CAConrad, Jennifer Coleman, = and sound artist=0AAlex Welsh. Publication of his most recent collaborative= poem with Brett Evans,=0Aentitled Ready-to-Eat Individual is forthcoming i= n the near future.=0A=0A=0A=0ADorothea Lasky was born in St. Louis, MO in= =0A1978. Her first full-length collection, AWE (Wave Books), will be=0Aout= in the fall of 2007. She is the author of three chapbooks: The=0AHatmaker= 's Wife (Braincase Press, 2006), Art (H_NGM_N Press, 2005),=0Aand Alphabets= and Portraits (Anchorite Press, 2004). Her poems=0Ahave appeared in jubil= at, Crowd, 6x6, Boston Review, Delmar, Phoebe, Filter,=0AKnock, Drill, Lung= full!, and Carve, among others. Currently,=0Ashe lives in Philadelphia, wh= ere studies education at the University of=0APennsylvania and co-edits the = Katalanche Press chapbook series, along with the=0Apoet Michael Carr. She = is a graduate of the MFA program for Poets and=0AWriters at the University = of Massachusetts-Amherst and also has been educated=0Aat Harvard University= and Washington University.=0A=0A=0ALaura Solomon was born in 1976 and grew= up in the deep South. She studied Political Science and Literature at the = University of Georgia in Athens, and later Creative Writing at the Universi= ty of Massachusetts-Amherst. Her first book Bivouac was published by Slope = Editions in 2002. Other publications include a chapbook, Letters by which S= isters Will Know Brothers (Katalanch=E9 Press 2005), and Haiku des Pierres = / Haiku of Stones by Jaques Poullaouec, a translation from the French with = Sika Fakambi (Apog=E9e Press, 2006). Her second book of poetry Blue and Red= Things has just been released by Ugly Duckling Presse. Currently she live= s in Philadelphia where she works as a tutor and researcher for an adult li= teracy intervention program. =0A=0A=0ACynthia Cruz was born in Germany and = raised in Northern=0ACalifornia. Her first book, Ruin, was published by Ali= ce James Books in=0A2006. Her poems have appeared in the American Poetry Re= view, Paris Review,=0ABoston Review, Colorado Review, Denver Quarterly, and= others, and are=0Aanthologized in Isn't it Romantic: 100 Love Poems by You= nger Poets and The=0AIowa Anthology of New American Poetries. She is the re= cipient of several=0Aresidencies to Yaddo and the MacDowell Colony. She liv= es in New York City.=0A=0A=0A=0ABorn=0Aand raised in Southern California, K= arla Kelsey holds degrees from UCLA, The Iowa=0AWriters Workshop, and The U= niversity of Denver. Her first book, Knowledge,=0AForms, the Aviary won the= 2005 Sawtooth Poetry Prize judged by Carolyn=0AForch=E9 and was published = in 2006 by Ahsahta Press. Her second full-length=0Amanuscript, Iteration Ne= ts, is based in the sonnet form and is=0Aforthcoming from Ahsahta. Karla is= also author of the chapbooks Little=0ADividing Doors in the Mind (Noemi Pr= ess, 2005) and Iterations (Pilot=0APress, forthcoming). Recent poems, essay= s, and reviews can be found in the Boston=0AReview, Octopus, Five Fingers R= eview, Lit, and CAB/NET.=0A=0A=0AMaureen Alsop=92s recent poems have appear= ed or are pending in=0Avarious publications including: Barrow Street, Typo,= Margie, Columbia : A=0AJournal of Literature and Art and Texas Review. He= r poetry was=0Atwice nominated for the Pushcart Prize. She is the 2006 rec= ipient of Harpur=0APalate's Milton Kessler Memorial Prize for Poetry and Th= e Eleventh Muse=0A2006 poetry prize. Her first full collection of poetry A= pparition Wren=0Ais available through Main Street Rag.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AJean V= alentine won the Yale Younger Poets=0AAward for her first book, Dream Barke= r, in 1965. Her most recent=0Acollection, Door in the Mountain: New and Col= lected Poems 1965 - 2003,=0Awon the 2004 National Book Award for Poetry. = =0AAuthor of eight additional books, Valentine has received a Guggenheim=0A= Fellowship and awards from the NEA, The Bunting Institute, The Rockefeller= =0AFoundation, The New York Council for the Arts, and The New York Foundati= on for=0Athe Arts, as well as the Maurice English Prize, the Teasdale Poetr= y Prize, and=0AThe Poetry Society of America's Shelley Memorial Prize. She = has taught at=0AColumbia, Sarah Lawrence College, NYU, and the 92nd St. Y, = among other places.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A _______= ___________________________________________________________________________= __=0AFussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user= panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invit= e.asp?a=3D7 =0A ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 21:54:40 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dillon Westbrook Subject: Prosody Castle II (reading in Oakland, Ca.) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit anyone in the Bay who doesn't get my spam mailer Prosody Castle II, second installment of an on-going reading series is going on this Friday (8/10). Looking at poems for multiple voices this time, including work from Bruce Andrews, JD Mitchell-Lumsden, Elizaebth Anderson and William Moor/Jeremy Thompson, performed by a cast of locals. Last reading was a lot of fun and a good mixed crowd of literati and non. Come if you can Gallery of Urban Art- 1746 13th st. @ Wood, West Oakland 8pm free, $4 for beer Cheers, Dillon Westbrook ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 08:39:28 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Edmund Hardy Subject: I.S. August In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed http://intercapillaryspace.blogspot.com/2007/08/august.html "Intercapillary Space" is a rolling blog-magazine of multiple formed matters, based in the UK. POEMS [#] Helen Macdonald: "Between her wings the novitiate" [#] Philip Hammial: HOW DOES YOUR GARDEN [#] Alistair Noon: Postcards from Home [#] Carrie Etter: Anthro- [#] James Wilkes: Two films [#] Francis Raven: I Thought This Was Better [#] Richard Makin: Nine Poems from Erratum's Lip [#] Tina Bass: "not diligent" and Bare [#] Tina Bass: Emmenogogue [#] Dee McMahon: Satiety [#] Changming Yuan: Earthling Calling ARTICLES [#] Michael Peverett: John Wilkinson's Lake Shore Drive annotated [#] Ralph Hawkins: Memory/Nostalgia/Perception and the Typewriter: Aram Saroyan's Complete Minimal Poems [#] David Berridge: MAKING SEASONS: Kristin Prevallet's [I, AFTERLIFE] [ESSAY IN MOURNING TIME] [#] Laura Steele: Coils: Zukofsky's Bottom: On Shakespeare [#] Edmund Hardy: What The Razor Knew: Ken Edwards' No Public Language REVIEWS [#] Mei-mei Berssenbrugge, Nest [#] Marianne Morris, A NEW BOOK FROM BARQUE PRESS, WHICH THEY WILL PROBABLY NOT PRINT [#] Deborah Meadows, involutia [#] Mark Dickinson, Littoral [#] Ken Edwards, Bird Migration in the 21st Century [#] Mary Coghill, Designed To Fade [#] Peter Hughes, Minor Yours and Sound Signals Advising Presence [#] Charles Reznikoff, Holocaust [#] Susan Howe, The Midnight READINGS [#] Poetical Histories 1 - Nicholas Moore [#] Poetical Histories 2 - J. H. Prynne [#] Denise Riley, Shantung [#] Robert Browning, Pauline NEW "INTERCAPILLARY" E-BOOKS [#] Peter Hughes: Berlioz [#] Carol Watts: alphabetise PLUS [#] What blurbs and reviews are really saying [#] Peter Riley Blog Symposium _________________________________________________________________ The next generation of Hotmail is here! http://www.newhotmail.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 04:42:45 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: our song revisited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed our song revisited music and voice by azure carter lyrics and video by alan sondheim http://www.asondheim.org/aurora.mp4 special thanks to people using megaphones "they run around everywhere, underfoot, will play song, aire, becomes eye longer stimulation retina world declares odorless song and wind" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 08:37:02 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Library of Congress - The Poet and the Poem In-Reply-To: <745545.78510.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Grace Cavalieri interviewed me – http://www.loc.gov/poetry/avfiles/poet-poem-amy-king.mp3 Poets in “The Poet and the Poem” series ---> [http://www.loc.gov/poetry/poetpoem.html] Billy Collins Tory Dent Rita Dove Rita Dove and Henry Taylor Cornelius Eady Claudia Emerson Daniel Mark Epstein Nick Flynn David Gewanter Maria M. Gillan Brian Gilmore and Brandon D. Johnson Daniela Gioseffi Michael S. Glaser Louise Glück Patricia Gray Donald Hall Robert Hass Jane Hirshfield Major Jackson Reuben Jackson Katia Kapovich Dolores Kendrick Myong-Hee Kim, Barbara Goldberg, Sibbie O'Sullivan, and Kathi Wolfe Amy King Ted Kooser Stanley Kunitz Laurie Lamon Merill Leffler Herbert Woodward Martin Hope Maxwell-Snyder and Rob Carney Campbell McGrath Heather McHugh W.S. Merwin E. Ethelbert Miller Daniel Thomas Moran Quique Avilés James H. Beall Anne Becker, Ernie Wormwood, Moira Egan and Lyn Lifshin Jody Bolz, Sarah Browning, Donna Denizé and Judith McCombs George Bilgere Fleda Brown and W.D. Snodgrass Kenneth Carroll Michael Collier Library of Congress http://www.loc.gov/poetry/poetpoem.html --------------------------------- Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 11:53:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Waber Subject: Paper Kite Press/Gallery/Studio Comments: To: announce MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Paper Kite Press/Gallery/Studio has a new location, new website, and new events - including a monthly art exhibits. Paper Kite Studio 443 Main Street Kingston, PA 18704 USA http://www.wordpainting.com/ The new website has a map (for those unfamiliar with the area), and a regularly updated calendar of events, along with other offerings and information on the gallery, the press, and our workshops. Check back often! http://www.wordpainting.com/ GRAND OPENING Friday August 10th, 8 p.m. - 10 p.m. Poetry readings from Jen Diskin, Sabrina McLaughlin and Carla Reck. Guitar Music by David Hage. Limited open mic to follow featured readers. Refreshments served. Come see the new studio space, meet and greet local poets and artists, and enjoy an evening of creative energy. FREE, but donations are always welcome. Friday August 17th, 6 - 8 p.m. Evolving Concepts: Old and New Work by Pat Stump Opening Reception of Exhibit Refreshments served. Friday August 17th, 8:15 p.m. Third Friday Open Mic with featured reader Andrea Jade Talarico Limited open mic to follow. Arrive early to sign up. Donation at door. Regards, Dan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 11:51:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Halle Subject: Melissa Severin @ Seven Corners Comments: To: brandihoman@hotmail.com, eeelalala@hotmail.com, Adam Fieled , Andrew Lundwall , Anne Waldman , Becky Hilliker , "Biddinger, Mary" , Bill Garvey , Bob Archambeau , "Bowen, Kristy" , chard deNiord , Cheryl Keeler , Chris Goodrich , Craig Halle , Dan Pedersen , DAVID PAVELICH , Diana Collins , ela kotkowska , "f.lord@snhu.edu" , Garin Cycholl , Garrett Brown , Grant Haughton , Ira Sadoff , James DeFrain , Jay Rubin , Jeffrey Grybash , joel craig , John Matthias , JOHN TIPTON , Judith Vollmer , Jules Gibbs , Julianna McCarthy , "K. R." , Kate Doane , Kristin Prevallet , Larry Sawyer & Lina ramona Vitkauskas , "Lea C. Deschenes" , "lesliesysko@hotmail.com" , "Lina R. Vitkauskas" , Malia Hwang-Carlos , Margaret Doane , Marie U , Mark Tardi , MartinD , Michael OLeary , Michael Waters , "Odelius, Kristy L." , "pba1@surewest.net" , Peter Sommers , Randolph Healy , Ross Gay , Simone Muench , Timothy Yu , Truth Thomas , "White, Jackie" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Check out fine new work by Melissa Severin on Seven Corners( sevencornerspoetry.blogspot.com). Recent poets also include Simon DeDeo and Tony Trigilio. Cheers, Steve Halle, Editor sevencornerspoetry.blogspot.com stevehalle.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 12:38:27 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: Fwd: RIPBM ::: Call for entries ::: film video multimedia ::: in Paris, in Berlin, in Madrid [\\\-> ! <-///] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit poetry or what? On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 21:44:28 +0200 Les Rencontres Internationales writes: > Dear all, > Please find below the Call for entries we are now circulating for > the > 14th "Rencontres internationales Paris/Berlin/Madrid" that will take > place from the 22nd of November to the 1st of December in Paris at > the > Centre Pompidou, the Jeu de Paume national museum and other > location. > This piece of information is released so that artists, filmmakers, > and > collectives may submit their works. > General information regarding the Rencontres Internationales is > posted > on our website, at : http://art-action.org > Please feel free to forward this information as widely as possible > and > to contact us for any further information. > Best wishes > The Festival team > ============================================== > > ||||| CALL FOR ENTRIES: UNTIL THE 15th OF AUGUST, 2007 > > ||||| RENCONTRES INTERNATIONALES PARIS/BERLIN/MADRID > ||||| FILM / VIDEO / MULTIMEDIA > ||||| http://art-action.org/en_info_appel.htm > > *** Please forward this information as widely as possible *** > > The 'Rencontres Internationales' will take place in Paris in > November > 2007, at the Centre Pompidou, at the Jeu de Paume national museum > and in > other key locations. The same program will be presented in Madrid in > April 2008 and in Berlin in June 2008. > Those three events will propose an international programming > focusing on > new cinema, video and multimedia, gathering works of artists and > filmmakers acknowledged on the international scene along with young > artists and not much distributed filmmakers. > > + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + > ANY INDIVIDUAL OR ORGANISATION CAN SUBMIT ONE OR SEVERAL PROPOSALS. > THE > CALL FOR ENTRIES IS OPEN TO FILM, VIDEO AND MULTIMEDIA CYCLES, > without > any restriction of length or genre. All submissions are free, > without > any limitation of geographic origin. > + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + > > EMA AND VIDEO CYCLES (all film and video formats) > * Video / Video art / Experimental video > * Experimental Film > * Documentary, experimental documentary > * Fiction - short, medium and feature length > * Animation movie > > MULTIMEDIA CYCLES > * Installation * Net art * Performance, concert > > + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + > Video and film submissions are received on DVD. ALL submissions are > sent > by postal mail, enclosed with a filled-in ONLINE ENTRY FORM, UNTIL > THE > 15th of AUGUST, 2007. Entry forms and information regarding the > 'Rencontres internationales Paris/Berlin/Madrid' are available on > our > website http://art-action.org/en_info_appel.htm > + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + > > The 'Rencontres Internationales' offer more than a simple > presentation > of the works. They introduce an intercultural forum gathering > various > guests from all over the world - artists and filmmakers, > institutions > and emerging organisations - to testify of the vivacity of creation > and > its distribution, but also of the artistic and cultural contexts > that > often are experiencing deep changes. The festival reflects > specificities > and crossings of art practices between new cinema and contemporary > art, > explores media art practices and their critical purposes, and work > out > this necessary time when points of view meet and are exchanged. > The festival aims at presenting those works to a broad audience, at > creating circulations between different art practices and between > different audiences, as well as creating new exchanges between > artists, > filmmakers and professionals. The 'Rencontres Internationales > Paris/Berlin/Madrid', an event without competition, are supported by > French, German, Spanish and international cultural institutions. > http://art-action.org/en_soutien.htm > PLEASE FEEL FREE TO SPREAD OUT THIS PIECE OF INFORMATION to creative > organizations, art networks, production companies, artists and > filmmakers you are in contact with. > > Best wishes. > The Rencontres Internationales > > -- > Les Rencontres Internationales Paris/Berlin/Madrid > #14 > Paris > Centre Pompidou, Jeu de Paume, Cinéma Entrepôt > 22 nov. - 1er dec. | 22. Nov - 1. Dez. | Nov. 25th - Dec. 1st > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 12:25:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: Bird Flew in the Garden Comments: To: Acousticlv@aol.com, AdeenaKarasick@cs.com, AGosfield@aol.com, alonech@acedsl.com, Altjazz@aol.com, amirib@aol.com, Amramdavid@aol.com, anansi1@earthlink.net, AnselmBerrigan@aol.com, arlenej2@verizon.net, Barrywal23@aol.com, bdlilrbt@icqmail.com, butchershoppoet@hotmail.com, CarolynMcClairPR@aol.com, CaseyCyr@aol.com, CHASEMANHATTAN1@aol.com, Djmomo17@aol.com, Dsegnini1216@aol.com, Gfjacq@aol.com, Hooker99@aol.com, rakien@gmail.com, jeromerothenberg@hotmail.com, Jeromesala@aol.com, JillSR@aol.com, JoeLobell@cs.com, JohnLHagen@aol.com, kather8@katherinearnoldi.com, Kevtwi@aol.com, krkubert@hotmail.com, LakiVaz@aol.com, Lisevachon@aol.com, Nuyopoman@AOL.COM, Pedevski@aol.com, pom2@pompompress.com, Rabinart@aol.com, Rcmorgan12@aol.com, reggiedw@comcast.net, RichKostelanetz@aol.com, RnRBDN@aol.com, Smutmonke@aol.com, sprygypsy@yahoo.com, SHoltje@aol.com, Sumnirv@aol.com, tcumbie@nyc.rr.com, velasquez@nyc.com, VITORICCI@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Saturday, August 11th... BIRD FLEW IN THE GARDEN 3:00 PM Poetry Reading Featuring original works and readings from Bob Holman, Yuko Otomo, Steve Delachinsky, Danny Shot, Amy Ouzoonian, Merry Fortune, Chavisa Woods, Eve Packer, Dorothy Friedman August, Tom Savage, Papoleto Melendez. 6:00 PM Butch Morris Avante-garde Conduction 8:00 PM Harpin’ in the Garden Billy Harper performs original compositions with his ensemble Also, be sure to visit www.tribes.org as well as http://myspace.com/agatheringofthetribes. A Gathering of the Tribes 285 E. 3rd Street New York, NY 10009 (212) 674 -3778 -- Tribes Gallery info@tribes.org 285 East 3rd Street #2 NY, NY 10009 212-674-3778 http://www.tribes.org http://www.myspace.com/85980537 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 11:06:28 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Majzels Subject: Announcement: Apikoros Sleuth in a limited edition now available MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed Moveable is proud to announce the release of Apikoros Sleuth Limited =20 Edition. This remarkable book has already won four major =20 international awards for design and typography, and has garnered rave =20= reviews. Only 231 copies of this collector's edition were produced, =20 each individually numbered and signed by the author. In the Review of Contemporary Fiction, Laird Hunt wrote: "If Dashiell =20= Hammett had written the stream-of-consciousness detective novel he =20 once claimed he would like to, and that manuscript had been passed on =20= to Edmond Jab=E8s for severe line editing, then stolen by early-career =20= Samuel Beckett to be dosed with bursts of hot humor and jaunty =20 textures, then revisited by late-career Samuel Beckett for cooling =20 and quieting, then borrowed by the late poet Jackson Mac Low to =20 undergo various destabilizing textual operations, we might, if we =20 could lay our hands on the resultant hybrid wonder, have some sense =20 of the baffling, polymorphic territory limned in Robert Majzels=92s =20 stunning antinovel, Apikoros Sleuth." Please visit http://www.apikorossleuth.com for more info and images. Even if you are not likely to buy the book, I think you will enjoy =20 the website! Thank you. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 12:18:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Skip Fox Subject: Re: Japan Times Review (by Donald Richie) of Masako's Story; Surviving the Atomic Bombing of Hiroshima In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nice. One always wants more, but this is good fare in the city square. -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Jesse Glass Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 11:24 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Japan Times Review (by Donald Richie) of Masako's Story; Surviving the Atomic Bombing of Hiroshima http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/fb20070805dr.html Or go to www.ahadadabooks.com and read it there. Jess ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 12:28:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: RIPBM ::: Call for entries ::: film video multimedia ::: in Paris, in Berlin, in Madrid [\\\-> ! <-///] In-Reply-To: <20070807.125412.384.17.skyplums@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Definitely what, Steve. Hal "metaphor--I use them. They keep me regular." --Paul Violi Halvard Johnson =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Aug 7, 2007, at 11:38 AM, steve d. dalachinsky wrote: > poetry or what? > > On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 21:44:28 +0200 Les Rencontres Internationales > writes: >> Dear all, >> Please find below the Call for entries we are now circulating for >> the >> 14th "Rencontres internationales Paris/Berlin/Madrid" that will take >> place from the 22nd of November to the 1st of December in Paris at >> the >> Centre Pompidou, the Jeu de Paume national museum and other >> location. >> This piece of information is released so that artists, filmmakers, >> and >> collectives may submit their works. >> General information regarding the Rencontres Internationales is >> posted >> on our website, at : http://art-action.org >> Please feel free to forward this information as widely as possible >> and >> to contact us for any further information. >> Best wishes >> The Festival team >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> >> ||||| CALL FOR ENTRIES: UNTIL THE 15th OF AUGUST, 2007 >> >> ||||| RENCONTRES INTERNATIONALES PARIS/BERLIN/MADRID >> ||||| FILM / VIDEO / MULTIMEDIA >> ||||| http://art-action.org/en_info_appel.htm >> >> *** Please forward this information as widely as possible *** >> >> The 'Rencontres Internationales' will take place in Paris in >> November >> 2007, at the Centre Pompidou, at the Jeu de Paume national museum >> and in >> other key locations. The same program will be presented in Madrid in >> April 2008 and in Berlin in June 2008. >> Those three events will propose an international programming >> focusing on >> new cinema, video and multimedia, gathering works of artists and >> filmmakers acknowledged on the international scene along with young >> artists and not much distributed filmmakers. >> >> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + >> ANY INDIVIDUAL OR ORGANISATION CAN SUBMIT ONE OR SEVERAL PROPOSALS. >> THE >> CALL FOR ENTRIES IS OPEN TO FILM, VIDEO AND MULTIMEDIA CYCLES, >> without >> any restriction of length or genre. All submissions are free, >> without >> any limitation of geographic origin. >> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + >> >> EMA AND VIDEO CYCLES (all film and video formats) >> * Video / Video art / Experimental video >> * Experimental Film >> * Documentary, experimental documentary >> * Fiction - short, medium and feature length >> * Animation movie >> >> MULTIMEDIA CYCLES >> * Installation * Net art * Performance, concert >> >> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + >> Video and film submissions are received on DVD. ALL submissions are >> sent >> by postal mail, enclosed with a filled-in ONLINE ENTRY FORM, UNTIL >> THE >> 15th of AUGUST, 2007. Entry forms and information regarding the >> 'Rencontres internationales Paris/Berlin/Madrid' are available on >> our >> website http://art-action.org/en_info_appel.htm >> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + >> >> The 'Rencontres Internationales' offer more than a simple >> presentation >> of the works. They introduce an intercultural forum gathering >> various >> guests from all over the world - artists and filmmakers, >> institutions >> and emerging organisations - to testify of the vivacity of creation >> and >> its distribution, but also of the artistic and cultural contexts >> that >> often are experiencing deep changes. The festival reflects >> specificities >> and crossings of art practices between new cinema and contemporary >> art, >> explores media art practices and their critical purposes, and work >> out >> this necessary time when points of view meet and are exchanged. >> The festival aims at presenting those works to a broad audience, at >> creating circulations between different art practices and between >> different audiences, as well as creating new exchanges between >> artists, >> filmmakers and professionals. The 'Rencontres Internationales >> Paris/Berlin/Madrid', an event without competition, are supported by >> French, German, Spanish and international cultural institutions. >> http://art-action.org/en_soutien.htm >> PLEASE FEEL FREE TO SPREAD OUT THIS PIECE OF INFORMATION to creative >> organizations, art networks, production companies, artists and >> filmmakers you are in contact with. >> >> Best wishes. >> The Rencontres Internationales >> >> -- >> Les Rencontres Internationales Paris/Berlin/Madrid >> #14 > Paris > Centre Pompidou, Jeu de Paume, Cin=E9ma Entrep=F4t >> 22 nov. - 1er dec. | 22. Nov - 1. Dez. | Nov. 25th - Dec. 1st >> >> ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 10:57:14 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: new Sixties journal In-Reply-To: <9d53d0aacb31d39caf3ecabda8416510@sfu.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I would say a public intellectual is someone who is listened to by a wide audience beyond the institution or college in which most of them teach. Henry Louis Gates would be a good example of one who has a currency about him. Edward Said was another. In France, of course the public intellectual is or was a widely honored tradition with the likes of Sartre, DeBeauvoir, and Derrida participating far beyond the classroom to which many of them were not even affiliated. George Bowering wrote: On Aug 6, 2007, at 3:44 PM, steve d. dalachinsky wrote: > still no one answered me wHAT IS A PUBLIC INTELLECTUAL A person whose practice of the intellect is made public through publication, for example, in the NY Times op=ed pages, or French public radio, or magazines whose practice it is to publish works produced by analysis, logic, etc. > G.H.B. = to the task --------------------------------- Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 11:40:58 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Matt Timmons Subject: Fold Appropriate Text Launch Aug 17 & 18 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Fold Appropriate Text Launch Parties Friday, August 17 at 7:30pm at Betalevel in Chinatown, Los Angeles http://betalevel.com Saturday, August 18 at 7:30pm at Pegasus Books in Berkeley http://www.pegasusbookstore.com/ Come celebrate the release of the first issue of FOLD MAGAZINE, Fold Appropriate Text, published by Insert Press ( http://insertpress.net). Many people will be reading from their work in the magazine and you can buy yourself a copy of this gorgeous literary journal at a discount (very exciting)! The emphasis of this issue is on the use of borrowed, stolen, plundered, reused, retooled and/or sampled texts to create literature and includes essays by Mark Wallace and Guy Bennett that discuss these methods. Our intent is to present the work of writers who use text which they did not originate and do not own or own only by virtue of appropriation. Contributors to Fold Appropriate Text are: Harold Abramowitz, Guy Bennett, Franklin Bruno, Teresa Carmody, Marcus Civin, Katie Degentesh, Drew Gardner, Nada Gordon, K. Lorraine Graham, Jen Hofer, Mark Hoover, Mike Magee, Sharon Mesmer, K. Silem Mohammad, William Moor, Bruna Mori, JeffreyJoe Nelson, Vanessa Place, Dan Richert, Rod Smith, Michael Smoler, Mark Wallace. Visit InsertPress[dot]Net for more information and to purchase fine literature. http://insertpress.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 21:43:22 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: Library of Congress - The Poet and the Poem In-Reply-To: <255114.33782.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline A great interview Amy, congratulations to you and Grace! On 8/7/07, amy king wrote: > > Grace Cavalieri interviewed me =96 > http://www.loc.gov/poetry/avfiles/poet-poem-amy-king.mp3 > > > Poets in "The Poet and the Poem" series ---> > [http://www.loc.gov/poetry/poetpoem.html] > > > Billy Collins > Tory Dent > Rita Dove > Rita Dove and Henry Taylor > Cornelius Eady > Claudia Emerson > Daniel Mark Epstein > > Nick Flynn > David Gewanter > Maria M. Gillan > Brian Gilmore and Brandon D. Johnson > Daniela Gioseffi > Michael S. Glaser > Louise Gl=FCck > > Patricia Gray > Donald Hall > Robert Hass > Jane Hirshfield > Major Jackson > Reuben Jackson > > Katia Kapovich > Dolores Kendrick > Myong-Hee Kim, Barbara Goldberg, Sibbie O'Sullivan, and Kathi Wolfe > Amy King > Ted Kooser > Stanley Kunitz > Laurie Lamon > Merill Leffler > Herbert Woodward Martin > Hope Maxwell-Snyder and Rob Carney > > Campbell McGrath > Heather McHugh > W.S. Merwin > E. Ethelbert Miller > Daniel Thomas Moran > > Quique Avil=E9s > James H. Beall > Anne Becker, Ernie Wormwood, Moira Egan and Lyn Lifshin > Jody Bolz, Sarah Browning, Donna Deniz=E9 and Judith McCombs > George Bilgere > Fleda Brown and W.D. Snodgrass > Kenneth Carroll > Michael Collier > > Library of Congress > http://www.loc.gov/poetry/poetpoem.html > > > > > --------------------------------- > Luggage? GPS? Comic books? > Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search. > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 16:24:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barrett Watten Subject: Publication announcement Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Announcing publication of Plasma/Parall=E8les/"X" Traduit de l'anglais (Etats-Unis) par Martin Richet Plasma/Parall=E8les/=ABX=BB r=E9unit trois longs po=E8mes du po=E8te= am=E9ricain Barrett=20 Watten, parus en chapbook chez Tuumba en 1979 (Plasma/Parallels/=93X=94). Plasma/Parall=E8les/"X" brings together three long poems, by American poet= =20 Barrett Watten, which appeared as a chapbook from Tuumba in 1979=20 (Plasma/Parallels/"X"). + + + Extrait en QUATRI=C8ME DE COUVERTURE : =AB Un paradoxe est mang=E9 par l'espace qui l'entoure. Je r=E9p=E9terai ce que j'ai dit. Faire d'une ville une saison, c'est porter des lunettes de soleil dans un=20 volcan. Il n'oublie jamais les r=EAves qu'il fait. L'effet du manque d'effet. La main dit =E0 l'oeil ce qu'il faut voir. Je r=E9prime d'autres attachements inutiles. Les chances de survie sont= d'une=20 sur dix. Je vois une tortue tra=EEner une t=EAte coup=E9e vers le radiateur. =BB + + + http://www.english.wayne.edu/fac_pages/ewatten=20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 22:52:57 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: RIPBM ::: Call for entries ::: film video multimedia ::: in Paris, in Berlin, in Madrid [\\\-> ! <-///] In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Indeed, I agree_ Anny *"And yet they say that grief never kills!"* *last sentence of Mist by Miguel de Unamuno* On 8/7/07, Halvard Johnson wrote: > > Definitely what, Steve. > > Hal > > "metaphor--I use them. They keep me regular." > --Paul Violi > > Halvard Johnson > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > halvard@earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > On Aug 7, 2007, at 11:38 AM, steve d. dalachinsky wrote: > > > poetry or what? > > > > On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 21:44:28 +0200 Les Rencontres Internationales > > writes: > >> Dear all, > >> Please find below the Call for entries we are now circulating for > >> the > >> 14th "Rencontres internationales Paris/Berlin/Madrid" that will take > >> place from the 22nd of November to the 1st of December in Paris at > >> the > >> Centre Pompidou, the Jeu de Paume national museum and other > >> location. > >> This piece of information is released so that artists, filmmakers, > >> and > >> collectives may submit their works. > >> General information regarding the Rencontres Internationales is > >> posted > >> on our website, at : http://art-action.org > >> Please feel free to forward this information as widely as possible > >> and > >> to contact us for any further information. > >> Best wishes > >> The Festival team > >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > >> > >> ||||| CALL FOR ENTRIES: UNTIL THE 15th OF AUGUST, 2007 > >> > >> ||||| RENCONTRES INTERNATIONALES PARIS/BERLIN/MADRID > >> ||||| FILM / VIDEO / MULTIMEDIA > >> ||||| http://art-action.org/en_info_appel.htm > >> > >> *** Please forward this information as widely as possible *** > >> > >> The 'Rencontres Internationales' will take place in Paris in > >> November > >> 2007, at the Centre Pompidou, at the Jeu de Paume national museum > >> and in > >> other key locations. The same program will be presented in Madrid in > >> April 2008 and in Berlin in June 2008. > >> Those three events will propose an international programming > >> focusing on > >> new cinema, video and multimedia, gathering works of artists and > >> filmmakers acknowledged on the international scene along with young > >> artists and not much distributed filmmakers. > >> > >> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + > >> ANY INDIVIDUAL OR ORGANISATION CAN SUBMIT ONE OR SEVERAL PROPOSALS. > >> THE > >> CALL FOR ENTRIES IS OPEN TO FILM, VIDEO AND MULTIMEDIA CYCLES, > >> without > >> any restriction of length or genre. All submissions are free, > >> without > >> any limitation of geographic origin. > >> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + > >> > >> EMA AND VIDEO CYCLES (all film and video formats) > >> * Video / Video art / Experimental video > >> * Experimental Film > >> * Documentary, experimental documentary > >> * Fiction - short, medium and feature length > >> * Animation movie > >> > >> MULTIMEDIA CYCLES > >> * Installation * Net art * Performance, concert > >> > >> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + > >> Video and film submissions are received on DVD. ALL submissions are > >> sent > >> by postal mail, enclosed with a filled-in ONLINE ENTRY FORM, UNTIL > >> THE > >> 15th of AUGUST, 2007. Entry forms and information regarding the > >> 'Rencontres internationales Paris/Berlin/Madrid' are available on > >> our > >> website http://art-action.org/en_info_appel.htm > >> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + > >> > >> The 'Rencontres Internationales' offer more than a simple > >> presentation > >> of the works. They introduce an intercultural forum gathering > >> various > >> guests from all over the world - artists and filmmakers, > >> institutions > >> and emerging organisations - to testify of the vivacity of creation > >> and > >> its distribution, but also of the artistic and cultural contexts > >> that > >> often are experiencing deep changes. The festival reflects > >> specificities > >> and crossings of art practices between new cinema and contemporary > >> art, > >> explores media art practices and their critical purposes, and work > >> out > >> this necessary time when points of view meet and are exchanged. > >> The festival aims at presenting those works to a broad audience, at > >> creating circulations between different art practices and between > >> different audiences, as well as creating new exchanges between > >> artists, > >> filmmakers and professionals. The 'Rencontres Internationales > >> Paris/Berlin/Madrid', an event without competition, are supported by > >> French, German, Spanish and international cultural institutions. > >> http://art-action.org/en_soutien.htm > >> PLEASE FEEL FREE TO SPREAD OUT THIS PIECE OF INFORMATION to creative > >> organizations, art networks, production companies, artists and > >> filmmakers you are in contact with. > >> > >> Best wishes. > >> The Rencontres Internationales > >> > >> -- > >> Les Rencontres Internationales Paris/Berlin/Madrid > >> #14 > Paris > Centre Pompidou, Jeu de Paume, Cin=E9ma Entrep=F4t > >> 22 nov. - 1er dec. | 22. Nov - 1. Dez. | Nov. 25th - Dec. 1st > >> > >> > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 13:59:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jules Boykoff Subject: **Bellamy & Killian in Portland, Oregon on Thursday** MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 **The Tangent (occasional) Reading Series presents** Dodie Bellamy and Kevin Killian Thursday, August 9 7:00 p.m. Clinton Corner Cafe 2633 SE 21st Ave. Portland, Oregon Admission is free www.thetangentpress.org/readings.html Dodie Bellamy will be introduced by Matthew Stadler Kevin Killian will be introduced by Rodney Koeneke Come early, and have dinner, if you like. Please stay after and join us for conversation and festivities! Dodie Bellamy's essays and reviews have appeared in The Village Voice, The San Francisco Chronicle, Bookforum, Out/Look and The San Diego Reader as well as numerous literary journals and web sites. In January, 2006, she curated an installation of Kathy Acker's clothing for White Columns, New York's oldest alternative art space. With Kevin Killian, she has edited over 130 issues of the literary/art zine Mirage #4/Period(ical). Her latest collection, Academonia, was published by Krupskaya in 2006. Other books include Pink Steam and The Letters of Mina Harker. Her book Cunt-Ups won the 2002 Firecracker Alternative Book Award for poetry. Kevin Killian has written a book of poetry, Argento Series (2001), two novels, Shy (1989) and Arctic Summer (1997), a book of memoirs, Bedrooms Have Windows (1989), and a book of stories, Little Men (1996) that won the PEN Oakland award for fiction. A second collection, I Cry Like a Baby, was published by Painted Leaf Books in 2001. He and Peter Gizzi are currently (2007) editing Jack Spicer's complete poems. For the San Francisco Poets Theater Killian has written thirty plays, including Stone Marmalade (1996, with Leslie Scalapino) and Often (2001, with Barbara Guest). He is most recently the author of Selected Amazon Reviews, edited by Brent Cunningham (Hooke Press, 2006). -- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 15:07:44 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jennifer Karmin Subject: JOB: Fishtrap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit FISHTRAP http://www.fishtrap.org A 20-year-old non-profit organization promoting thinking, writing, and writers in the West, is taking applications from now until September 30 for the Executive Director position for an early 2008 hire. Fishtrap is located in the very rural, remote, and beautiful northeast corner of Oregon. It produces conferences, workshops, a lecture series, writers’ residencies, college classes, a Fellowship program, and more. The Director works with a small staff, an active local governing board, and an involved regional advisory board. Applicants should have experience in program development, administration, and fundraising, a passion for literature and the West, and a desire to live and fully participate in a rural community. Salary range: $40,000–$55,000. Please send cover letter and resumé to Director Search, Fishtrap, P.O. Box 38, Enterprise, OR 97828. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 18:01:52 -0500 Reply-To: bobbyb@uchicago.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bobby Baird Subject: Adrienne Rich email? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline If someone here has Adrienne Rich's email address, would you send it to me backchannel? Thanks, Robert Baird -- http://humanities.uchicago.edu/review/ http://www.digitalemunction.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 21:35:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: an interesting insect* recording MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed an interesting insect* recording http://www.asondheim.org/cricket1.mp3 http://www.asondheim.org/cricket2.mp3 *might be amphibian but very doubtful unlike most crickets, cicadas, grasshoppers, these sound continuously, on- ly pausing with what seems like exhaustion. the sound is intensely direc- tional; turn 90 degrees and it disappears, even though we were within a few feet of the creature (which remained hidden in the bushes). now here we are with the semblance of a neuron; there are threshold firings that one might consider digital (sound on / sound off) but there's also a fine structure that i assume goes well into the ultrasonics, conveying coded information that's analogically based. this is similar to 'counting chirps to determine temperature'; in this case, there are no chirp bursts and whatever's going on is invisible - and perhaps invisible to the insect that hears and responds, the insect that autonomically decodes and acts accordingly. again, any information you might have would be greatly appreciated. the sounds were recorded at ground level (dangling mono microphone) early night in aurora, colorado, early august. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 04:51:08 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Karl-Erik Tallmo Subject: Re: an interesting insect* recording In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Very interesting. Is it an airplane I hear as well? Alan, a friend of mine here in Sweden has adopted the old Chinese technique of keeping crickets, tuning them (with resin) and playing music with them. He has around 500 in his apartment and it takes about three hours a day only to feed them. He has made two CD records with these small musicians, and he has also performed with them on stage together with various improvising jazz musicians. I will pass on this to him ... See http://www.bolingo.org/cricket/index_eng.htm http://www.bolingo.org/cricket/cecd/CE006_tracklist.htm Karl-Erik Tallmo >an interesting insect* recording > >http://www.asondheim.org/cricket1.mp3 >http://www.asondheim.org/cricket2.mp3 > >*might be amphibian but very doubtful > >unlike most crickets, cicadas, grasshoppers, these sound continuously, on- >ly pausing with what seems like exhaustion. the sound is intensely direc- >tional; turn 90 degrees and it disappears, even though we were within a >few feet of the creature (which remained hidden in the bushes). now here >we are with the semblance of a neuron; there are threshold firings that >one might consider digital (sound on / sound off) but there's also a fine >structure that i assume goes well into the ultrasonics, conveying coded >information that's analogically based. this is similar to 'counting chirps >to determine temperature'; in this case, there are no chirp bursts and >whatever's going on is invisible - and perhaps invisible to the insect >that hears and responds, the insect that autonomically decodes and acts >accordingly. > >again, any information you might have would be greatly appreciated. the >sounds were recorded at ground level (dangling mono microphone) early >night in aurora, colorado, early august. -- _________________________________________________________________ KARL-ERIK TALLMO, writer, artist, journalist etc. ARTWORK, WRITINGS etc.: http://www.nisus.se/tallmo/ SOUND & MUSIC: http://www.nisus.se/tallmo/sound/ MAGAZINE: http://art-bin.com COPYRIGHT HISTORY: http://www.copyrighthistory.com _________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 23:13:02 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Seth Forrest Subject: Copyright holder for Robert Creeley audio MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all- I'm hoping that someone out there can help me identify the copyright holder for audio recordings of Robert Creeley reading. I am seeking research copies from UC San Diego and Stanford, and neither of those libraries have been able to identify the copyright holder yet so that I can seek permission for said copies. I know that New Directions is holder for his print works but haven't heard back from their Permissions Department on this query either. Any help would be much appreciated, Seth -- Seth Forrest PhD Candidate Department of English University of California, Davis wwwenglish.ucdavis.edu http://trc.ucdavis.edu/sjforrest ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 08:03:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cris cheek Subject: Re: an interesting insect* recording In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline good recording alan the plane adds a lot did u know that only the males "sing" (Males form dense, loud acoustical choruses that females visit in order to mate.) and when they sing they expose themselves to potentitally deadly toxins so it is a dodgy business for mating ofc as often is the case;) On 8/7/07, Karl-Erik Tallmo wrote: > Very interesting. Is it an airplane I hear as well? > > Alan, a friend of mine here in Sweden has adopted the old Chinese > technique of keeping crickets, tuning them (with resin) and playing > music with them. He has around 500 in his apartment and it takes > about three hours a day only to feed them. He has made two CD records > with these small musicians, and he has also performed with them on > stage together with various improvising jazz musicians. I will pass > on this to him ... > > See http://www.bolingo.org/cricket/index_eng.htm > http://www.bolingo.org/cricket/cecd/CE006_tracklist.htm > > Karl-Erik Tallmo > > > > > >an interesting insect* recording > > > >http://www.asondheim.org/cricket1.mp3 > >http://www.asondheim.org/cricket2.mp3 > > > >*might be amphibian but very doubtful > > > >unlike most crickets, cicadas, grasshoppers, these sound continuously, on- > >ly pausing with what seems like exhaustion. the sound is intensely direc- > >tional; turn 90 degrees and it disappears, even though we were within a > >few feet of the creature (which remained hidden in the bushes). now here > >we are with the semblance of a neuron; there are threshold firings that > >one might consider digital (sound on / sound off) but there's also a fine > >structure that i assume goes well into the ultrasonics, conveying coded > >information that's analogically based. this is similar to 'counting chirps > >to determine temperature'; in this case, there are no chirp bursts and > >whatever's going on is invisible - and perhaps invisible to the insect > >that hears and responds, the insect that autonomically decodes and acts > >accordingly. > > > >again, any information you might have would be greatly appreciated. the > >sounds were recorded at ground level (dangling mono microphone) early > >night in aurora, colorado, early august. > > > -- > > _________________________________________________________________ > > KARL-ERIK TALLMO, writer, artist, journalist etc. > > ARTWORK, WRITINGS etc.: http://www.nisus.se/tallmo/ > SOUND & MUSIC: http://www.nisus.se/tallmo/sound/ > MAGAZINE: http://art-bin.com > COPYRIGHT HISTORY: http://www.copyrighthistory.com > _________________________________________________________________ > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 10:07:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: an interesting insect* recording In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed I went to the cricketing recording site but there didn't seem to be any mp3s available. On another list, some folks thought the sounds were from tree frogs, but the location makes that unlikely - the sounds originated near the ground on dry barren soil, with a couple of shrubs and that's all... - Alan On Wed, 8 Aug 2007, cris cheek wrote: > good recording alan > > the plane adds a lot > did u know that only the males "sing" > > (Males form dense, loud acoustical choruses that females visit in > order to mate.) > > and when they sing they expose themselves to potentitally deadly toxins > so it is a dodgy business > > for mating ofc > > as often is the case;) > > On 8/7/07, Karl-Erik Tallmo wrote: >> Very interesting. Is it an airplane I hear as well? >> >> Alan, a friend of mine here in Sweden has adopted the old Chinese >> technique of keeping crickets, tuning them (with resin) and playing >> music with them. He has around 500 in his apartment and it takes >> about three hours a day only to feed them. He has made two CD records >> with these small musicians, and he has also performed with them on >> stage together with various improvising jazz musicians. I will pass >> on this to him ... >> >> See http://www.bolingo.org/cricket/index_eng.htm >> http://www.bolingo.org/cricket/cecd/CE006_tracklist.htm >> >> Karl-Erik Tallmo >> >> >> >> >>> an interesting insect* recording >>> >>> http://www.asondheim.org/cricket1.mp3 >>> http://www.asondheim.org/cricket2.mp3 >>> >>> *might be amphibian but very doubtful >>> >>> unlike most crickets, cicadas, grasshoppers, these sound continuously, on- >>> ly pausing with what seems like exhaustion. the sound is intensely direc- >>> tional; turn 90 degrees and it disappears, even though we were within a >>> few feet of the creature (which remained hidden in the bushes). now here >>> we are with the semblance of a neuron; there are threshold firings that >>> one might consider digital (sound on / sound off) but there's also a fine >>> structure that i assume goes well into the ultrasonics, conveying coded >>> information that's analogically based. this is similar to 'counting chirps >>> to determine temperature'; in this case, there are no chirp bursts and >>> whatever's going on is invisible - and perhaps invisible to the insect >>> that hears and responds, the insect that autonomically decodes and acts >>> accordingly. >>> >>> again, any information you might have would be greatly appreciated. the >>> sounds were recorded at ground level (dangling mono microphone) early >>> night in aurora, colorado, early august. >> >> >> -- >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> >> KARL-ERIK TALLMO, writer, artist, journalist etc. >> >> ARTWORK, WRITINGS etc.: http://www.nisus.se/tallmo/ >> SOUND & MUSIC: http://www.nisus.se/tallmo/sound/ >> MAGAZINE: http://art-bin.com >> COPYRIGHT HISTORY: http://www.copyrighthistory.com >> _________________________________________________________________ >> > > ======================================================================= Work on YouTube, blog at http://nikuko.blogspot.com . Tel 718-813-3285. Webpage directory http://www.asondheim.org . Email: sondheim@panix.com. http://clc.as.wvu.edu:8080/clc/Members/sondheim for theory; also check WVU Zwiki, Google for recent. Write for info on books, cds, performance, dvds, etc. ============================================================= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 10:35:07 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Stairs and Us MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Stairs and Us I coupled an ancient homemade variometer or variocoupler with the loose coupler (in series with the antenna. I reset the slider bar and repaired the crack in the front coil support. I made a new slider contact out of a smooth alligator clip. I attached a very think wire to the cat's whisker tip to improve contact. I refiled the primary coil contacts. I repaired the 1918 509W 1100 Wester Electric headset leads and placed cloth over the rubberized ear pieces which seemed to be deteriorating. I reattached a loose while on the variocoupler. I rewired the connections I made with the alligator clips. I bypassed the internal secondary coil of the loose coupler. I glued shims under the outer rail support for the secondary coil. I set up a short 30 foot antenna in a garage. I attached a 15 foot ground to a door frame. In the day I pick up 1090 and nothing else, at night I pick up KOA and nothing else. They're on very different parts of the AM band. I pick up a faint buzz but this is with or without the crystal so I imagine it's nothing more than 60 hz inducing in the vicinity. I think the signals will be stronger in New York - greater humidity, more and closer stations, and a very long wire antenna and good ground. I think I'm running this on no energy. I think I'm stealing energy. I think it's there and free for you and me. I think I'm making a secret. - http://www.asondheim.org/vario.jpg - While I am doing this, I think again of the paradox - theoretically one can run upstairs faster than down since there's only gravity, no foothold, down, and upstairs one pushes off the stair surfaces for speed. Near a black hole I imagine the two speeds would be more or less equal. In zero gravity, going down the stairs would be at 0 kilometers / hour; there's nothing moving the body one way or another. On the other hand, moving upstairs would still be roughly at any speed; the obstacle, of course, the inertial mass of the body and the 'foot force' at hand. I think, why is this? Why is it easier to fall for someone downstairs, but there are limits based on the planet the two of you are on - while running upstairs, fleeing the raptor - why, there's no inherent limit except what the body imposes, against whatever gravity happens to be around. (I think, downstairs, it's the pulsing of the planet - upstairs, it's the pulsing of the speaking body, listening planet, or speaking planet, listening body, always this dialog as one approaches an indefinite absolute, the planet's masquerade.) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 10:42:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charlotte Mandel Subject: Re: Copyright holder for Robert Creeley audio In-Reply-To: <46B95EEE.4090504@ucdavis.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Seth - Don't know the answer, but maybe Steve Swallow does - I have 2 CD's of Creeley reading to Swallows's music. One is titled So There, the other "Have We Told You All You'd Thought to Know." Try him on Google. Charlotte On Aug 8, 2007, at 2:13 AM, Seth Forrest wrote: Dear all- I'm hoping that someone out there can help me identify the copyright holder for audio recordings of Robert Creeley reading. I am seeking research copies from UC San Diego and Stanford, and neither of those libraries have been able to identify the copyright holder yet so that I can seek permission for said copies. I know that New Directions is holder for his print works but haven't heard back from their Permissions Department on this query either. Any help would be much appreciated, Seth -- Seth Forrest PhD Candidate Department of English University of California, Davis wwwenglish.ucdavis.edu http://trc.ucdavis.edu/sjforrest ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 11:00:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Copyright holder for Robert Creeley audio In-Reply-To: <46B95EEE.4090504@ucdavis.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit have you asked Pen Creeley? On 8/8/07 2:13 AM, "Seth Forrest" wrote: > Dear all- > I'm hoping that someone out there can help me identify the copyright > holder for audio recordings of Robert Creeley reading. I am seeking > research copies from UC San Diego and Stanford, and neither of those > libraries have been able to identify the copyright holder yet so that I > can seek permission for said copies. I know that New Directions is > holder for his print works but haven't heard back from their Permissions > Department on this query either. > Any help would be much appreciated, > Seth ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 11:16:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lisa Jarnot Subject: autumn poetry workshop, sunnyside queens In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v733) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear List Folks, I'd appreciate it if you could circulate this to potential students. Thanks, Lisa Jarnot Lisa Jarnot will be teaching a 10 week poetry workshop in Sunnyside Queens. Fridays, 6:30-9:30 pm beginning September 7th fee: $300 limit 10 students The class, titled "One's Own Language", will focus on the following: basic elements of poetry: the letter, syllable, word, phrase, line, stanza phonetics of poems: IPA transcription exercises in sound, meter, etymology, imitation, translation readings in and around emily dickinson, louis zukofsky, robert duncan, lorrine niedecker, shakespeare, wallace stevens, and more workshopping of student poems and projects ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 11:24:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: Bjork's Medullar Recitative of e.e. cumming's Unrealities, "people who never existed" & more on JB's PJs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Today on Joe Brainard's Pyjamas some Icelandic Health (hey get your Omega 3's people!) in the form of Bjork's Medullar recitative of an e.e. cummings poem, new poetry including "People Who Never Existed," and "spooky chicory" and the usual unusual?visual shenanigans...oh and as Linda Ritchman says "ps Swiss Premium Southern Brew in the gallon size" tastes VERY similar to Mcdonald's Sweet Tea for those of you who are already addicted..and much cheaper obviously not to mention the drive time and wait time..."Discuss..." The heat index is "fried but loving it" @ http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 11:31:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Ciccariello Subject: And then, there are no things MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline And then, there are no things - Peter Ciccariello Invisible Notes ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 11:57:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Waber Subject: upon a soapbox Comments: To: announce MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Could everyone please stop using Internet Explorer? Thanks! I ask because, yet again, I've just spent literally HOURS cludging together a wobbly tower of otherwise useless code in order to trick IE into rendering web pages into a reasonable semblance of the way other, standards compliant, browsers do with a tenth of the code. If you are only viewing the web in IE, and you have any appreciation for the subtleties of good design and elegant typography, you're really missing out on a much richer experience. Try one of these, please. Spend a day browsing with one of them, or better yet, each of them. http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/ http://www.apple.com/safari/ (yes it works on a PC now) http://www.opera.com/ And think of it like driving a new car. OK, maybe the key is a different shape, maybe the gas tank is on the other side, but the doors actually LOCK, and it goes three times as fast on half the fuel. And it's free. And any critical repairs happen faster. You don't even have to uninstall your IE, go ahead, keep it on your desktop "just in case". But I'm here to tell you that the only time I've needed IE in the past 4 years has been when someone tells me a page I've coded is broken and I need to spend a couple of hours fixing what ain't broken. Regards, Dan ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 09:02:57 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: John Latta re G. Gatza, K. Johnson on blogos-fears MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline John Latta has an interesting entry re what Geoffrey Gatza calls "the recent row at Lime Trees". http://isola-di-rifiuti.blogspot.com in response to Gatza's note and posting of Kent Johnson's response and 88 lined piece (I am interested in" (a Grand Piano also has 88 keys . . . ) at: http://www.blazevox.org/072-kj.htm (Gatza's original note is below) The issue of censorship on a personal blog within the contexts of a specific community, depending on the reader, may or not be "a tempest in a teapot". Censorship in many forms, under many guises, is being continually deployed through out the media and the academic and cultural spheres. The violence, virulence and strong arm tactics used against Professors Finkelstein and Berubee earlier this year, with very little outcry from any direction, are a chilling example of how easily and how much the fear, hate and bullying methods of the Fascist and Stalinist Thirties and McCarthyite Fifties have been able to rush into American life after 9/11. Now the "new" Congress has rubber stamped into legality even more and more extreme illegal wire tappings, surveillances, than had already been in routine operation. Yesterday on Amy Goodwin-hosted Democracy Now, the British author, journalist and film maker whose film The War on Democracy is just being released in Britain, spoke of the censorship and distortions of the media, as it becomes the purview of an ever tinier group of conglomerates, all of them working ever closer with the governments of countries, with the known dis-translation services such as Memri. The more America fights for "democracy" and the "spread of democracy" and all its attendant Freedoms--the more censorship, denial of election results, bullying lobbies, blogos-fears, "suspected terrorists", "rendition flights", there will be, along with more conformity in every way, from thought to (non) action/activism, the arts, everything. How "radically different" are the "radical, innovative" from the "School of Q" poetries really, at some fundamental level? It sounds like another version of the "two party system"--different parties, same system. One could essay name substitutions--"Edgar Guest" for "Charles Bernstein" or a New Yorker short story writer for "Ron Silliman"--with a little touch here and touch there how much difference is there really? Maybe a lot, maybe a little, but rather than conforming to assumptions, which is a form of censorship in itself, at least to question the huge assumptions trumpeted in heavy handed sloganeerings. Without a continual disbelief and questioning, everyone might as well be called a member of the School of Q--and thus be prepared for the day of Liberace-ation when, echoing President Hoover's famous dictum, that "the Business of America is Business", George Bush, casting aside all earthly fear, shall proclaim--"the Language of America is L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E" Liberace after all as Grand Pianist, was the originator of these "Parole in Liberace" Is it any crazier than Der Arnold evolving "before our very eyes" from a "mere body builder" to "Conan the Barbarian" to the high techness of "The Terminator" and then into "Governor Schwarzenegger"??? "I can't believe it's not butter!" Hold that thought, Fabio! --the un-belief! On 8/6/07, Geoffrey Gatza wrote: > Sneak peek to the Fall issue of BlazeVOX2k7: > > > Kent Johnson responds to the recent row on Lime Trees. > > > http://www.blazevox.org/072-kj.htm > > > -- > > Best, Geoffrey > > Geoffrey Gatza > Editor & Publisher > ------------------------------------- > BlazeVOX [ books ] > Publisher of weird little books > -------------------------------------- > > editor@blazevox.org > http://www.blazevox.org > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 18:12:55 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: an interesting insect* recording In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I did find a way to listen to the crickets, and believe it or not I preferred your lonely cricket, Alan. I cannot remember how I got there, just click around and there are several mp3s. On 8/8/07, Alan Sondheim wrote: > > I went to the cricketing recording site but there didn't seem to be any > mp3s available. > > On another list, some folks thought the sounds were from tree frogs, but > the location makes that unlikely - the sounds originated near the ground > on dry barren soil, with a couple of shrubs and that's all... > > - Alan > > On Wed, 8 Aug 2007, cris cheek wrote: > > > good recording alan > > > > the plane adds a lot > > did u know that only the males "sing" > > > > (Males form dense, loud acoustical choruses that females visit in > > order to mate.) > > > > and when they sing they expose themselves to potentitally deadly toxins > > so it is a dodgy business > > > > for mating ofc > > > > as often is the case;) > > > > On 8/7/07, Karl-Erik Tallmo wrote: > >> Very interesting. Is it an airplane I hear as well? > >> > >> Alan, a friend of mine here in Sweden has adopted the old Chinese > >> technique of keeping crickets, tuning them (with resin) and playing > >> music with them. He has around 500 in his apartment and it takes > >> about three hours a day only to feed them. He has made two CD records > >> with these small musicians, and he has also performed with them on > >> stage together with various improvising jazz musicians. I will pass > >> on this to him ... > >> > >> See http://www.bolingo.org/cricket/index_eng.htm > >> http://www.bolingo.org/cricket/cecd/CE006_tracklist.htm > >> > >> Karl-Erik Tallmo > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>> an interesting insect* recording > >>> > >>> http://www.asondheim.org/cricket1.mp3 > >>> http://www.asondheim.org/cricket2.mp3 > >>> > >>> *might be amphibian but very doubtful > >>> > >>> unlike most crickets, cicadas, grasshoppers, these sound continuously, > on- > >>> ly pausing with what seems like exhaustion. the sound is intensely > direc- > >>> tional; turn 90 degrees and it disappears, even though we were within > a > >>> few feet of the creature (which remained hidden in the bushes). now > here > >>> we are with the semblance of a neuron; there are threshold firings > that > >>> one might consider digital (sound on / sound off) but there's also a > fine > >>> structure that i assume goes well into the ultrasonics, conveying > coded > >>> information that's analogically based. this is similar to 'counting > chirps > >>> to determine temperature'; in this case, there are no chirp bursts and > >>> whatever's going on is invisible - and perhaps invisible to the insect > >>> that hears and responds, the insect that autonomically decodes and > acts > >>> accordingly. > >>> > >>> again, any information you might have would be greatly appreciated. > the > >>> sounds were recorded at ground level (dangling mono microphone) early > >>> night in aurora, colorado, early august. > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > >> _________________________________________________________________ > >> > >> KARL-ERIK TALLMO, writer, artist, journalist etc. > >> > >> ARTWORK, WRITINGS etc.: http://www.nisus.se/tallmo/ > >> SOUND & MUSIC: http://www.nisus.se/tallmo/sound/ > >> MAGAZINE: http://art-bin.com > >> COPYRIGHT HISTORY: http://www.copyrighthistory.com > >> _________________________________________________________________ > >> > > > > > > > ======================================================================= > Work on YouTube, blog at http://nikuko.blogspot.com . Tel 718-813-3285. > Webpage directory http://www.asondheim.org . Email: sondheim@panix.com. > http://clc.as.wvu.edu:8080/clc/Members/sondheim for theory; also check > WVU Zwiki, Google for recent. Write for info on books, cds, performance, > dvds, etc. ============================================================= > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 11:43:22 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charlie Rossiter Subject: AP American Lit--what's you take on this reading list? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ok, my literarily-informed friends, my son, Jack, will be a high school jr this year taking AP American Lit. Given that doing well enough in the course and on the AP test is considered the equivalent of passing a college course on the subject I suppose we could consider this a possible reading list for an Intro Am. Lit class. The list is below: If you have the time and inclination, I'd love to read your responses. If you teach this course, I'd be curious to see your reading list. Jack would too. We know what we think, but I don't want to bias your responses. Adventures of Huckleberry Finn The Awakening Catcher in the Rye The Crucible The Great Gatsby In Our Time Intrepreter of Maladies Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglas Passing The Scarlet Letter Their Eyes Were Watching Charlie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 11:50:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: an interesting insect* recording In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70708080912q228f57c4g418f0af670714a46@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dan lives on one of the Dreamtime Village properties & writes a weekly column for Organic Valley about the flora & fauna outside his window. This week's episode coincidentally is about insects & the sounds they make. http://organicvalley.coop/culture/farm_friends/down_natures_trail/ index.html?id=311 If this is your cup of tea you can subscribe to receive this in your mailbox every week. He does a new pencil drawing every week to illustrate his stories. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 13:00:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: RIPBM ::: Call for entries ::: film video multimedia ::: in Paris, in Berlin, in Madrid [\\\-> ! <-///] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ah what just as i thought and then there's olivera and bresson and a new comer costas oh wrong discussion sorry ha On Tue, 7 Aug 2007 12:28:50 -0500 Halvard Johnson writes: > Definitely what, Steve. > > Hal > > "metaphor--I use them. They keep me regular." > --Paul Violi > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard@earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > On Aug 7, 2007, at 11:38 AM, steve d. dalachinsky wrote: > > > poetry or what? > > > > On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 21:44:28 +0200 Les Rencontres Internationales > > writes: > >> Dear all, > >> Please find below the Call for entries we are now circulating > for > >> the > >> 14th "Rencontres internationales Paris/Berlin/Madrid" that will > take > >> place from the 22nd of November to the 1st of December in Paris > at > >> the > >> Centre Pompidou, the Jeu de Paume national museum and other > >> location. > >> This piece of information is released so that artists, > filmmakers, > >> and > >> collectives may submit their works. > >> General information regarding the Rencontres Internationales is > >> posted > >> on our website, at : http://art-action.org > >> Please feel free to forward this information as widely as > possible > >> and > >> to contact us for any further information. > >> Best wishes > >> The Festival team > >> ============================================== > >> > >> ||||| CALL FOR ENTRIES: UNTIL THE 15th OF AUGUST, 2007 > >> > >> ||||| RENCONTRES INTERNATIONALES PARIS/BERLIN/MADRID > >> ||||| FILM / VIDEO / MULTIMEDIA > >> ||||| http://art-action.org/en_info_appel.htm > >> > >> *** Please forward this information as widely as possible > *** > >> > >> The 'Rencontres Internationales' will take place in Paris in > >> November > >> 2007, at the Centre Pompidou, at the Jeu de Paume national > museum > >> and in > other key locations. The same program will be presented in Madrid > in > >> April 2008 and in Berlin in June 2008. > >> Those three events will propose an international programming > >> focusing on > >> new cinema, video and multimedia, gathering works of artists and > >> filmmakers acknowledged on the international scene along with > young > >> artists and not much distributed filmmakers. > >> > >> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + > >> ANY INDIVIDUAL OR ORGANISATION CAN SUBMIT ONE OR SEVERAL > PROPOSALS. > >> THE > >> CALL FOR ENTRIES IS OPEN TO FILM, VIDEO AND MULTIMEDIA CYCLES, > >> without > >> any restriction of length or genre. All submissions are free, > >> without > >> any limitation of geographic origin. > >> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + > >> > >> EMA AND VIDEO CYCLES (all film and video formats) > >> * Video / Video art / Experimental video > >> * Experimental Film > >> * Documentary, experimental documentary > >> * Fiction - short, medium and feature length > >> * Animation movie > >> > >> MULTIMEDIA CYCLES > >> * Installation * Net art * Performance, concert > >> > >> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + > >> Video and film submissions are received on DVD. ALL submissions > are > >> sent > >> by postal mail, enclosed with a filled-in ONLINE ENTRY FORM, > UNTIL > >> THE > >> 15th of AUGUST, 2007. Entry forms and information regarding the > >> 'Rencontres internationales Paris/Berlin/Madrid' are available > on > >> our > >> website http://art-action.org/en_info_appel.htm > >> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + > >> > >> The 'Rencontres Internationales' offer more than a simple > >> presentation > >> of the works. They introduce an intercultural forum gathering > >> various > >> guests from all over the world - artists and filmmakers, > >> institutions > >> and emerging organisations - to testify of the vivacity of > creation > >> and > >> its distribution, but also of the artistic and cultural contexts > >> that > >> often are experiencing deep changes. The festival reflects > >> specificities > >> and crossings of art practices between new cinema and > contemporary > >> art, > >> explores media art practices and their critical purposes, and > work > >> out > >> this necessary time when points of view meet and are exchanged. > >> The festival aims at presenting those works to a broad audience, > at > >> creating circulations between different art practices and > between > >> different audiences, as well as creating new exchanges between > >> artists, > >> filmmakers and professionals. The 'Rencontres Internationales > >> Paris/Berlin/Madrid', an event without competition, are supported > by > >> French, German, Spanish and international cultural institutions. > >> http://art-action.org/en_soutien.htm > >> PLEASE FEEL FREE TO SPREAD OUT THIS PIECE OF INFORMATION to > creative > >> organizations, art networks, production companies, artists and > >> filmmakers you are in contact with. > >> > >> Best wishes. > >> The Rencontres Internationales > >> > >> -- > >> Les Rencontres Internationales Paris/Berlin/Madrid > >> #14 > Paris > Centre Pompidou, Jeu de Paume, Cinéma Entrepôt > >> 22 nov. - 1er dec. | 22. Nov - 1. Dez. | Nov. 25th - Dec. 1st > >> > >> > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 13:20:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kevin thurston Subject: Re: John Latta re G. Gatza, K. Johnson on blogos-fears In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline where did geoffrey post that note? i see/saw kent's, but not the one you posted below... On 8/8/07, David Chirot wrote: > > John Latta has an interesting entry re what Geoffrey Gatza calls "the > recent > row at Lime Trees". > > http://isola-di-rifiuti.blogspot.com > > in response to Gatza's note and posting of Kent Johnson's response and 88 > lined piece (I am interested in" (a Grand Piano also has 88 keys . . . ) > > at: > http://www.blazevox.org/072-kj.htm > > (Gatza's original note is below) > > The issue of censorship on a personal blog within the contexts of a > specific > community, depending on the reader, may or not be "a tempest in a teapot". > > Censorship in many forms, under many guises, is being continually deployed > through out the media and the academic and cultural spheres. The > violence, > virulence and strong arm tactics used against Professors Finkelstein and > Berubee earlier this year, with very little outcry from any direction, are > a > chilling example of how easily and how much the fear, hate and bullying > methods of the Fascist and Stalinist Thirties and McCarthyite Fifties have > been able to rush into American life after 9/11. Now the "new" Congress > has > rubber stamped into legality even more and more extreme illegal wire > tappings, surveillances, than had already been in routine operation. > Yesterday on Amy Goodwin-hosted Democracy Now, the British author, > journalist and film maker whose film The War on Democracy is just being > released in Britain, spoke of the censorship and distortions of the media, > as it becomes the purview of an ever tinier group of conglomerates, all of > them working ever closer with the governments of countries, with the known > dis-translation services such as Memri. > > The more America fights for "democracy" and the "spread of democracy" and > all its attendant Freedoms--the more censorship, denial of election > results, > bullying lobbies, blogos-fears, "suspected terrorists", "rendition > flights", > there will be, along with more conformity in every way, from thought to > (non) action/activism, the arts, everything. How "radically different" > are > the "radical, innovative" from the "School of Q" poetries really, at some > fundamental level? It sounds like another version of the "two party > system"--different parties, same system. One could essay name > substitutions--"Edgar Guest" for "Charles Bernstein" or a New Yorker short > story writer for "Ron Silliman"--with a little touch here and touch there > how much difference is there really? Maybe a lot, maybe a little, but > rather than conforming to assumptions, which is a form of censorship in > itself, at least to question the huge assumptions trumpeted in heavy > handed > sloganeerings. > > Without a continual disbelief and questioning, everyone might as well be > called a member of the School of Q--and thus be prepared for the day of > Liberace-ation when, echoing President Hoover's famous dictum, that "the > Business of America is Business", George Bush, casting aside all earthly > fear, shall proclaim--"the Language of America is L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E" > > Liberace after all as Grand Pianist, was the originator of these "Parole > in > Liberace" > Is it any crazier than Der Arnold evolving "before our very eyes" from a > "mere body builder" to "Conan the Barbarian" to the high techness of "The > Terminator" and then into "Governor Schwarzenegger"??? > > "I can't believe it's not butter!" > Hold that thought, Fabio! > --the un-belief! > > > > On 8/6/07, Geoffrey Gatza wrote: > > > Sneak peek to the Fall issue of BlazeVOX2k7: > > > > > > Kent Johnson responds to the recent row on Lime Trees. > > > > > > http://www.blazevox.org/072-kj.htm > > > > > > -- > > > > Best, Geoffrey > > > > Geoffrey Gatza > > Editor & Publisher > > ------------------------------------- > > BlazeVOX [ books ] > > Publisher of weird little books > > -------------------------------------- > > > > editor@blazevox.org > > http://www.blazevox.org > > > -- *new address* 802 richmond ave #2 buffalo, ny 14222 i think i may have gotten away with the jon-benet ramsey thing http://fuckinglies.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 13:21:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kevin thurston Subject: Re: John Latta re G. Gatza, K. Johnson on blogos-fears In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline or did i misunderstand and the long note in that email is yours, dbc? i think it is given your recent "Parole in Liberace" blog post On 8/8/07, kevin thurston wrote: > > where did geoffrey post that note? i see/saw kent's, but not the one you > posted below... > > On 8/8/07, David Chirot < david.chirot@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > John Latta has an interesting entry re what Geoffrey Gatza calls "the > > recent > > row at Lime Trees". > > > > http://isola-di-rifiuti.blogspot.com > > > > in response to Gatza's note and posting of Kent Johnson's response and > > 88 > > lined piece (I am interested in" (a Grand Piano also has 88 keys . . . > > ) > > > > at: > > http://www.blazevox.org/072-kj.htm > > > > (Gatza's original note is below) > > > > The issue of censorship on a personal blog within the contexts of a > > specific > > community, depending on the reader, may or not be "a tempest in a > > teapot". > > > > Censorship in many forms, under many guises, is being continually > > deployed > > through out the media and the academic and cultural spheres. The > > violence, > > virulence and strong arm tactics used against Professors Finkelstein and > > Berubee earlier this year, with very little outcry from any direction, > > are a > > chilling example of how easily and how much the fear, hate and bullying > > methods of the Fascist and Stalinist Thirties and McCarthyite Fifties > > have > > been able to rush into American life after 9/11. Now the "new" Congress > > has > > rubber stamped into legality even more and more extreme illegal wire > > tappings, surveillances, than had already been in routine operation. > > Yesterday on Amy Goodwin-hosted Democracy Now, the British author, > > journalist and film maker whose film The War on Democracy is just being > > released in Britain, spoke of the censorship and distortions of the > > media, > > as it becomes the purview of an ever tinier group of conglomerates, all > > of > > them working ever closer with the governments of countries, with the > > known > > dis-translation services such as Memri. > > > > The more America fights for "democracy" and the "spread of democracy" > > and > > all its attendant Freedoms--the more censorship, denial of election > > results, > > bullying lobbies, blogos-fears, "suspected terrorists", "rendition > > flights", > > there will be, along with more conformity in every way, from thought to > > (non) action/activism, the arts, everything. How "radically different" > > are > > the "radical, innovative" from the "School of Q" poetries really, at > > some > > fundamental level? It sounds like another version of the "two party > > system"--different parties, same system. One could essay name > > substitutions--"Edgar Guest" for "Charles Bernstein" or a New Yorker > > short > > story writer for "Ron Silliman"--with a little touch here and touch > > there > > how much difference is there really? Maybe a lot, maybe a little, but > > rather than conforming to assumptions, which is a form of censorship in > > itself, at least to question the huge assumptions trumpeted in heavy > > handed > > sloganeerings. > > > > Without a continual disbelief and questioning, everyone might as well be > > > > called a member of the School of Q--and thus be prepared for the day of > > Liberace-ation when, echoing President Hoover's famous dictum, that "the > > Business of America is Business", George Bush, casting aside all earthly > > > > fear, shall proclaim--"the Language of America is L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E" > > > > Liberace after all as Grand Pianist, was the originator of these "Parole > > in > > Liberace" > > Is it any crazier than Der Arnold evolving "before our very eyes" from a > > > > "mere body builder" to "Conan the Barbarian" to the high techness of > > "The > > Terminator" and then into "Governor Schwarzenegger"??? > > > > "I can't believe it's not butter!" > > Hold that thought, Fabio! > > --the un-belief! > > > > > > > > On 8/6/07, Geoffrey Gatza wrote: > > > > > Sneak peek to the Fall issue of BlazeVOX2k7: > > > > > > > > > Kent Johnson responds to the recent row on Lime Trees. > > > > > > > > > http://www.blazevox.org/072-kj.htm > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Best, Geoffrey > > > > > > Geoffrey Gatza > > > Editor & Publisher > > > ------------------------------------- > > > BlazeVOX [ books ] > > > Publisher of weird little books > > > -------------------------------------- > > > > > > editor@blazevox.org > > > http://www.blazevox.org > > > > > > > > > -- > *new address* > 802 richmond ave #2 > buffalo, ny 14222 > > i think i may have gotten away with the jon-benet ramsey thing > > http://fuckinglies.blogspot.com/ -- *new address* 802 richmond ave #2 buffalo, ny 14222 i think i may have gotten away with the jon-benet ramsey thing http://fuckinglies.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 10:23:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander Subject: Re: Copyright holder for Robert Creeley audio In-Reply-To: <46B95EEE.4090504@ucdavis.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I just asked the Poetry Center at the U of Arizona who holds the copyright to all of their recorded readings (including Creeley in 2003), and I was told that the poet holds the copyright; or, in the case of Creeley now, Penelope holds the copyright. I imagine that would generally be true unless the poet has specifically given such rights away. Charles At 11:13 PM 8/7/2007, you wrote: >Dear all- >I'm hoping that someone out there can help me identify the copyright >holder for audio recordings of Robert Creeley reading. I am seeking >research copies from UC San Diego and Stanford, and neither of those >libraries have been able to identify the copyright holder yet so >that I can seek permission for said copies. I know that New >Directions is holder for his print works but haven't heard back from >their Permissions Department on this query either. >Any help would be much appreciated, >Seth > >-- >Seth Forrest >PhD Candidate >Department of English >University of California, Davis >wwwenglish.ucdavis.edu >http://trc.ucdavis.edu/sjforrest > charles alexander / chax press fold the book inside the book keep it open always read from the inside out speak then Chax Press 520-620-1626 (studio) 520-275-4330 (cell) chax@theriver.com chax.org 650 E. 9th St. Tucson, AZ 85705 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 13:34:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Skip Fox Subject: Re: an interesting insect* recording In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A cricket with jet engines! -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Karl-Erik Tallmo Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 9:51 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: an interesting insect* recording Very interesting. Is it an airplane I hear as well? Alan, a friend of mine here in Sweden has adopted the old Chinese technique of keeping crickets, tuning them (with resin) and playing music with them. He has around 500 in his apartment and it takes about three hours a day only to feed them. He has made two CD records with these small musicians, and he has also performed with them on stage together with various improvising jazz musicians. I will pass on this to him ... See http://www.bolingo.org/cricket/index_eng.htm http://www.bolingo.org/cricket/cecd/CE006_tracklist.htm Karl-Erik Tallmo >an interesting insect* recording > >http://www.asondheim.org/cricket1.mp3 >http://www.asondheim.org/cricket2.mp3 > >*might be amphibian but very doubtful > >unlike most crickets, cicadas, grasshoppers, these sound continuously, on- >ly pausing with what seems like exhaustion. the sound is intensely direc- >tional; turn 90 degrees and it disappears, even though we were within a >few feet of the creature (which remained hidden in the bushes). now here >we are with the semblance of a neuron; there are threshold firings that >one might consider digital (sound on / sound off) but there's also a fine >structure that i assume goes well into the ultrasonics, conveying coded >information that's analogically based. this is similar to 'counting chirps >to determine temperature'; in this case, there are no chirp bursts and >whatever's going on is invisible - and perhaps invisible to the insect >that hears and responds, the insect that autonomically decodes and acts >accordingly. > >again, any information you might have would be greatly appreciated. the >sounds were recorded at ground level (dangling mono microphone) early >night in aurora, colorado, early august. -- _________________________________________________________________ KARL-ERIK TALLMO, writer, artist, journalist etc. ARTWORK, WRITINGS etc.: http://www.nisus.se/tallmo/ SOUND & MUSIC: http://www.nisus.se/tallmo/sound/ MAGAZINE: http://art-bin.com COPYRIGHT HISTORY: http://www.copyrighthistory.com _________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 15:21:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: Re: John Latta re G. Gatza, K. Johnson on blogos-fears MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable That's funny, David. John Latta and Geoff Gatza both equate a personal blog= that does not allow comments from everyone with censorship.Latta, in fact,= equates a person who does not allow all comments with Stalin, a man who mu= rdered or imprisoned millions of people.But, then, each of themLattahttp://= isola-di-rifiuti.blogspot.comand Gatzahttp://www.blazevox.org/blog/index.ph= p?itemid=3D82have maintained blogs for years, neither of which currently al= lows, nor has ever allowed, comments.Do you want to maybe think this one th= rough a bit more and get back to us? _________________________________________________________________ Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more=85.then map the best rout= e! http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=3D2&ss=3Dyp.bars~yp.pizza~yp.movie%20th= eater&cp=3D42.358996~-71.056691&style=3Dr&lvl=3D13&tilt=3D-90&dir=3D0&alt= =3D-1000&scene=3D950607&encType=3D1&FORM=3DMGAC01= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 12:40:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: V Nicholas LoLordo Subject: Re: AP American Lit--what's you take on this reading list? In-Reply-To: <3810.75.3.74.173.1186591402.squirrel@www.poetrypoetry.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed the fiction section of the reading list is not bad at all..... looking forward to seeing the poetry section-- On Aug 8, 2007, at 9:43 AM, Charlie Rossiter wrote: > Ok, my literarily-informed friends, my son, Jack, will be a high > school > jr this year taking AP American Lit. Given that doing well enough > in the > course and on the AP test is considered the equivalent of passing a > college course on the subject I suppose we could consider this a > possible > reading list for an Intro Am. Lit class. The list is below: > > If you have the time and inclination, I'd love to read your responses. > > If you teach this course, I'd be curious to see your reading list. > Jack > would too. > > We know what we think, but I don't want to bias your responses. > > Adventures of Huckleberry Finn > The Awakening > Catcher in the Rye > The Crucible > The Great Gatsby > In Our Time > Intrepreter of Maladies > Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglas > Passing > The Scarlet Letter > Their Eyes Were Watching > > Charlie V Nicholas LoLordo Assistant Professor Department of English University of Nevada-Las Vegas 4505 Maryland Parkway Box 455011 Las Vegas, NV 89154-5011 Phone: 702-895-3623 Fax: 702-895-4801 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 15:42:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Kelleher Subject: Olson Film Review Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Michael Boughn has posted a review of Henry Ferrini's Polis Is This: Charles Olson and the Persitence of Place to the OlsonNow blog: http://olsonnow.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 15:53:33 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Waber Subject: Re: John Latta re G. Gatza, K. Johnson on blogos-fears In-Reply-To: (Gary Sullivan's message of "Wed, 8 Aug 2007 15:21:37 -0400") MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable re: comments/no comments on blogs, I recently enjoyed (and concurred with) "Joel on Software"'s take: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2007/07/20.html one small excerpt to encourage the trip (the Dave he mentions is Dave Winer whose ideas about comments precede Joel's in the full piece): "The important thing to notice here is that Dave does not see blog comments as productive to the free exchange of ideas. They are a part of the problem, not the solution. You don't have a right to post your thoughts at the bottom of someone else's thoughts. That's not freedom of expression, that's an infringement on *their* freedom of expression. Get your own space, write compelling things, and if your ideas are smart, they'll be linked to, and Google will notice, and you'll move up in PageRank, and you'll have influence and your ideas will have power." and there's more where that came from at the link above. Regards, Dan Gary Sullivan wrote: > That's funny, David. John Latta and Geoff Gatza both equate a personal bl= og that does not allow comments from everyone with censorship.Latta, in fac= t, equates a person who does not allow all comments with Stalin, a man who = murdered or imprisoned millions of people.But, then, each of themLattahttp:= //isola-di-rifiuti.blogspot.comand Gatzahttp://www.blazevox.org/blog/index.= php?itemid=3D82have maintained blogs for years, neither of which currently = allows, nor has ever allowed, comments.Do you want to maybe think this one = through a bit more and get back to us? > _________________________________________________________________ > Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more=E2=80=A6.then map the b= est route! > http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=3D2&ss=3Dyp.bars~yp.pizza~yp.movie%20= theater&cp=3D42.358996~-71.056691&style=3Dr&lvl=3D13&tilt=3D-90&dir=3D0&alt= =3D-1000&scene=3D950607&encType=3D1&FORM=3DMGAC01 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 15:53:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: AP American Lit--what's you take on this reading list? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Dear Charlie, Besides Douglass having two 's's (?), I'd love to see some of that great = poetry America is so rich in. Mairead Mair=C3=A9ad Byrne Associate Professor of English Rhode Island School of Design 2 College Street Providence, RI 02903 >>> Charlie.Rossiter@POETRYPOETRY.ORG 08/08/07 12:43 PM >>> Ok, my literarily-informed friends, my son, Jack, will be a high school jr this year taking AP American Lit. Given that doing well enough in the course and on the AP test is considered the equivalent of passing a college course on the subject I suppose we could consider this a possible reading list for an Intro Am. Lit class. The list is below: If you have the time and inclination, I'd love to read your responses. If you teach this course, I'd be curious to see your reading list. Jack would too. We know what we think, but I don't want to bias your responses. Adventures of Huckleberry Finn The Awakening Catcher in the Rye The Crucible The Great Gatsby In Our Time Intrepreter of Maladies Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglas Passing The Scarlet Letter Their Eyes Were Watching Charlie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 15:56:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: Re: John Latta re G. Gatza, K. Johnson on blogos-fears MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry for the bad formatting. Here it is again: That's funny, David. John L= atta and Geoff Gatza both equate a personal blog that does not allow commen= ts from everyone with censorship. Latta, in fact, equates a person who does= not allow all comments with Stalin, a man who murdered or imprisoned milli= ons of people. But, then, each of them, Latta: http://isola-di-rifiuti.blog= spot.com and Gatza: http://www.blazevox.org/blog/index.php?itemid=3D82 have= maintained blogs for years, neither of which currently allows, nor has eve= r allowed, comments. Do you want to maybe think this one through a bit more= and get back to us?=20 _________________________________________________________________ Learn. Laugh. Share. Reallivemoms is right place! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=3DTXT_TAGHM&loc=3Dus= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 12:59:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: AP American Lit--what's you take on this reading list? In-Reply-To: <3810.75.3.74.173.1186591402.squirrel@www.poetrypoetry.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline this is pretty much what we read in am lit in my crappy catholic high school 20 years ago; it has been my understanding that nowadays in better schools and in advanced placement-type courses, students are expected to have read catcher, huck finn, etc. in jr. high (6-9th grade), freeing them to read faulkner & o'connor, whitman & dickinson jr year and to write themes on themes, regions, culture, interrelation, or close readings of more complex texts rather than book reports on relatively straight forward stories beloved is usally on these lists I have complete ignorance about what might be on the ap or clep tests for am lit, tho the people I went to college with had gone to good prep schools, and they'd read, oh, existentialist novels, plays, and nonfiction in french by senior year philo in lit; nothing I'm reading here -- except the products of the harlem renaissance & lost generation taught well -- would prepare your son for that type of (imagined in envy then and recalled now) course next year; it just seems like it is going to be the crucible as a play to round things out, not the crucible as a 50s miller play, you know? their eyes as a novel by am african american woman, not as anything else... (my high school did soph honors/jr am lit, jr honors/sr brit lit, sr honors philo in lit) I have a shared sense of disappointment, I guess; at the time I was a demon for a reading list and I went ahead and did read lots more of the authors we were assigned on my own, because I aware that I was missing something crucial I would need for a non-science major in a top tier college -- but of course, reading Nine Stories isn't really the way to get it. Catherine On 8/8/07, Charlie Rossiter wrote: > > Ok, my literarily-informed friends, my son, Jack, will be a high school > jr this year taking AP American Lit. Given that doing well enough in the > course and on the AP test is considered the equivalent of passing a > college course on the subject I suppose we could consider this a possible > reading list for an Intro Am. Lit class. The list is below: > > If you have the time and inclination, I'd love to read your responses. > > If you teach this course, I'd be curious to see your reading list. Jack > would too. > > We know what we think, but I don't want to bias your responses. > > Adventures of Huckleberry Finn > The Awakening > Catcher in the Rye > The Crucible > The Great Gatsby > In Our Time > Intrepreter of Maladies > Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglas > Passing > The Scarlet Letter > Their Eyes Were Watching > > Charlie > -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly@gmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 16:13:27 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Latta Subject: Re: John Latta re G. Gatza, K. Johnson on blogos-fears In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="-745682430-2066280497-1186602181=:31052" This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. ---745682430-2066280497-1186602181=:31052 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=X-UNKNOWN; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Content-ID: Not accurate, Sullivan. A blog's a personal space offer'd to the public.=20 Mine's always been that, and always with my e-mail address prominently=20 display'd. You want to comment, you write to me. Simple. A blog with a comment box makes a somewhat different contract with the=20 public. If one offers a space for immediately-published (unmoderated)=20 comments--as Lime Tree did when I post'd my (now disappear'd)=20 remarks--one's public contract (in the comments box) is inevitably that of= =20 open, democratic, free-wheeling exchange. It's an all or nothing=20 situation, open or closed (unless one is so completely contriving for=20 control that one moderates *each* comment *beforehand*--not the case=20 here). So, if one--say, Mohammad at Lime Tree--suddenly thinks "Kent=20 Johnson's cleverness here in my public comments box is making me look=20 bad," or "I hate that smart-alecky snip Latta" and petulantly removes *all= =20 trace* of comments in the box: that's a breach of public trust, in short,= =20 censorship. Airbrushing out the record of an exchange which had been=20 enter'd into by the participants in good faith. As for the Stalin comment? What that's just "inappropriate"!!! Aww yeah!=20 (One'd think a flarfy boy like you'd see that toot, as I hear they say in= =20 France, sweet.) Latta On Wed, 8 Aug 2007, Gary Sullivan wrote: > That's funny, David. John Latta and Geoff Gatza both equate a personal bl= og that does not allow comments from everyone with censorship.Latta, in fac= t, equates a person who does not allow all comments with Stalin, a man who = murdered or imprisoned millions of people.But, then, each of themLattahttp:= //isola-di-rifiuti.blogspot.comand Gatzahttp://www.blazevox.org/blog/index.= php?itemid=3D82have maintained blogs for years, neither of which currently = allows, nor has ever allowed, comments.Do you want to maybe think this one = through a bit more and get back to us? > _________________________________________________________________ > Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more=85.then map the best ro= ute! > http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=3D2&ss=3Dyp.bars~yp.pizza~yp.movie%20= theater&cp=3D42.358996~-71.056691&style=3Dr&lvl=3D13&tilt=3D-90&dir=3D0&alt= =3D-1000&scene=3D950607&encType=3D1&FORM=3DMGAC01 > > ---745682430-2066280497-1186602181=:31052-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 13:27:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: John Latta re G. Gatza, K. Johnson on blogos-fears In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I don't know if I agree with this critique of censorship on webspace. I mean, a lot of time censorship is winnowing. And winnowing is censorship. A lot of times it is editing. And editing is censorship. A lot of times censorship is translating. Or bringing speech into text -- you know, writing = censorship. Also, having not been to many blogs recently, some display the comments, and others link to them. But really long comments like 88 lines about 88 women, er, imaginery notes, well, the original idea of comments is that they be short and dialogical. Speech like. Informal. Perhaps the software should allow one to limit their length, automatically create a collapsed section or link to a long piece. -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly@gmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 16:51:27 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: Re: John Latta re G. Gatza, K. Johnson on blogos-fears MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Latta, your attempt at righteous indignation is amusing, but misplaced. Per= sonal blogs are never entirely open spaces; for that matter, neither are = online bulletin boards nor listservs. When the administrator of Lucipo, fo= r instance, decided to change the list from national and open to regional a= nd no-longer-Web-searchable, that was the owner's right. Just as it is your= right to decide against posting an e-mail to your blog. A blog is not a bo= ok or magazine or newspaper, and it's a bit silly to expect anything on a b= log to remain there, as though it were "in print," and even sillier to laun= ch a campaign against someone simply because they've made a decision about = what to include, or not. _________________________________________________________________ See what you=92re getting into=85before you go there http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=3DTXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview_0507= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 13:57:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander Subject: Re: AP American Lit--what's you take on this reading list? In-Reply-To: <3810.75.3.74.173.1186591402.squirrel@www.poetrypoetry.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed My daughter took this class two years ago. I remember her reading some of these works, maybe most of them, though I don't recall In Our Time, Interpreter of Maladies, or Passing. She did read Moby Dick (and intensely disliked it, mostly because she intensely disliked the character of Ahab). Other included writers were Whitman & Dickinson. She also read other works on her own, including novels by Edith Wharton, and I think that was the year she wrote a paper on a Robert Creeley poem. I thought she had a very good experience in the class. Any reading list for a single class is a bit like an anthology, isn't it? I mean, we would all wish some works removed & others included. I wonder about the lack of poetry in the list below. But then even some bookstores have a "literature" section and a separate "poetry" section, as if poetry is not quite considered as literature. Very odd. I would certainly like this list better if it included William Carlos Williams, Ezra Pound, Langston Hughes, and any literature after 1930 or so (though of course The Crucible is a more recent work). This seems like a fairly safe list, and one designed to teach continuing American themes. I would worry more about the approaches to the works below than the limitations of the list itself. It seems better than some lists I've seen. Let's hope your son Jack has a very good teacher. Charles At 09:43 AM 8/8/2007, you wrote: >Ok, my literarily-informed friends, my son, Jack, will be a high school >jr this year taking AP American Lit. Given that doing well enough in the >course and on the AP test is considered the equivalent of passing a >college course on the subject I suppose we could consider this a possible >reading list for an Intro Am. Lit class. The list is below: > >If you have the time and inclination, I'd love to read your responses. > >If you teach this course, I'd be curious to see your reading list. Jack >would too. > >We know what we think, but I don't want to bias your responses. > >Adventures of Huckleberry Finn >The Awakening >Catcher in the Rye >The Crucible >The Great Gatsby >In Our Time >Intrepreter of Maladies >Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglas >Passing >The Scarlet Letter >Their Eyes Were Watching > >Charlie charles alexander / chax press fold the book inside the book keep it open always read from the inside out speak then Chax Press 520-620-1626 (studio) 520-275-4330 (cell) chax@theriver.com chax.org 650 E. 9th St. Tucson, AZ 85705 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 16:00:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: John Latta re G. Gatza, K. Johnson on blogos-fears MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gary:If you'll notice, in my post, I set those issues apart, in a paragraph= separate from what follows, noting these are issues for the persons concer= ned with these events in re blogs and specific communities and their reader= s to determine in whatever ways they will. I did this because I didn't i= n a comment to the blog in question, take sides, but hoped for a "diplomati= c discussion" so that poets would listen to each other and try to understan= d each others' points of view and reach an understanding without having to = resort to strikes and post pre-emptive strikes and the like, before anythin= g of this sort happened. Sadly, the discussion stage was skipped and hence= the subsequent events. But then, people have their reasons one often does= n't know. I personally think the issue with blogs is much more complicated = by issues personal and with the fields of interest of the specific blogs in= question--so that the blog, by "belonging" (while actually belonging to "b= logger.com or some such outfit)--belonging to a blogger, makes of that pers= on at once an inviting host and/or the host/bouncer. Given it is poets inv= olved, of course the words chosen, tones of the discussion, analogies and s= o forth, create further blog appearances at the host blog and among a proli= ferating group of blogs, creating poems, critical works, guidelines, and th= e like--until the next such event. It is an area of one might say "marke= d ambiguity"--if one invites comments, where does one draw the line at leng= th or language, personal invective or public humiliation--written rules and= unwritten rules--it's a not as yet very clearly "determined" or "agreed u= pon" sphere of discourse, since human beings have a penchant, a hankering = really, to test and push any envelope one is presented with and equally str= ong tendency when really pushed to lower the boom. That's why discussions = of blog choices in action can become such a mess. (Maybe "Fight C= lub" blogs could be created, blasting gansta Rap and Elvis singing "If You'= re Looking For trouble You've Come to the Right Place"--old school Celtic P= oetry contests--hangouts for the dozens--) You'll notice i comp= letely bracketed this blog issue from the really serious and dangerous exa= mples of the censoring of Finkelstein and Berubee and the examples John Pil= ger was speaking about on Democracy Now this morning. Jewish Voices for P= eace produces an email newsletter called Muzzle Watch that is very disturbi= ng on things going on in the "free press" and media and academic world in t= he United States. The laws signed into being the other day are really frig= htening. So is the fact there is so little protest, comment, concern from = citizens, let alone poets or "radical" poets, whom one would think would be= concerned by such things. I think part of the lack of concern is in fact = a sign of how heavily things are censored--very few people are really very = aware of what is going on, and if they are, are trained for the most part t= o think that what is happening "couldn't happen here", or--don't really see= m to care. Formalist Radicalism has been the norm for so long--the New Sen= tence and Reagan's New Morning in American began about the same time-- it i= s hard to get people to think that "activist poetry" etc is anything but "n= ostalgia" or kind of cool strangeness like Anarchist vegan kids into "ragi= ng"--I mean who knows perhaps Marshmallow Flarf is more radical than figuri= ng out some kind of action more direct to take to derail the giant Death Ma= chine coming around the bend? Go with the flow of the spam and all that--S= ome Post Avant apres ski anyone?--If the president and Attorney general don= 't know what what is going on, why should we, eh?-- That's the resul= t of the kinds of censorship Pilegr was talking about this morning, which i= s made al the easier by the removal of "dissidents" like the Professors at = DePaul. Kevin:the post from Geoffrey Gatza was at poetics tw= o days ago> Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 15:21:37 -0400> From: gpsullivan@HOTMAIL.= COM> Subject: Re: John Latta re G. Gatza, K. Johnson on blogos-fears> To: P= OETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> > That's funny, David. John Latta and Geoff Ga= tza both equate a personal blog that does not allow comments from everyone = with censorship.Latta, in fact, equates a person who does not allow all com= ments with Stalin, a man who murdered or imprisoned millions of people.But,= then, each of themLattahttp://isola-di-rifiuti.blogspot.comand Gatzahttp:/= /www.blazevox.org/blog/index.php?itemid=3D82have maintained blogs for years= , neither of which currently allows, nor has ever allowed, comments.Do you = want to maybe think this one through a bit more and get back to us?> ______= ___________________________________________________________> Find a local p= izza place, movie theater, and more=85.then map the best route!> http://map= s.live.com/default.aspx?v=3D2&ss=3Dyp.bars~yp.pizza~yp.movie%20theater&cp= =3D42.358996~-71.056691&style=3Dr&lvl=3D13&tilt=3D-90&dir=3D0&alt=3D-1000&s= cene=3D950607&encType=3D1&FORM=3DMGAC01 _________________________________________________________________ Recharge--play some free games. Win cool prizes too! http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=3DCLUB_wlmailtextlink= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 16:54:29 -0500 Reply-To: "Patrick F. Durgin" Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Patrick F. Durgin" Subject: Kenning Editions: Dorantes, Weiner, Subscriptions, and Amazon Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As announced here earlier this summer, Dolores Dorantes' first full-length = collection of poetry in English, as translated by Jen Hofer, is due as a co= publication of Counterpath Press and Kenning Editions in late September. Yo= u will be among the first to receive the book, hot off the press and at a g= enerous discount, with your subscription to Kenning Editions. A subscription also entitles you to discounts on Hannah Weiner's Open House= and Jesse Seldess' debut collection, Who Opens. Subscription form available at http://www.kenningeditions.com/images/sub07-= 08.pdf Hannah Weiner's Open House is now available at Amazon: http://www.amazon.c= om/Hannah-Weiners-Open-House-Weiner/dp/0976736411/ref=3Dpd_bbs_sr_2/105-432= 6165-6333220?ie=3DUTF8&s=3Dbooks&qid=3D1186609768&sr=3D1-2 (The "ship by" date is erroneous, by the way. It will ship within days.) Note also this, from the SFSU Poetry Center calendar: Thursday OCT 25: Kenning Editions Reading=20 DOLORES DORANTES, PATRICK DURGIN, JEN HOFER, JESSE SELDESS=20 & readings from Hannah Weiner=E2=80=99s Open House 3:30 pm @ the Poetry Center HUM 512, SFSU, free Most of Patrick Durgin=E2=80=99s poetry has been published in small press a= nd fine press zines and chapbooks=E2=80=94most recently, a short collection= entitled Imitation Poems. He will be reading from that book and conductin= g performances from Hannah Weiner=E2=80=99s Open House, which he recently e= dited for Kenning Editions, of which he is founder and publisher. Jesse Se= ldess relocated from Chicago to Berlin, Germany, and most recently from Ber= lin to Karlsruhe, where he continues to edit the journal Antennae and organ= ize the Floating Series of exhibitions and events. He will read from his d= ebut collection from Kenning Editions, Who Opens. Dolores Dorantes returns= to the Poetry Center from Ciudad Ju=C3=A1rez, Chihuahua, where she is foun= ding director of the border arts collective Compa=C3=B1=C3=ADa Frugal, whic= h supports autonomous projects in the arts and counts among its activities = publication of the bi-weekly poetry broadside series Hoja Frugal, printed i= n editions of 4000 and distributed free throughout Mexico. She will read f= rom her premier full-length collection, copublished by Counterpath Press an= d Kenning Editions, and entiteld sexoPUROsexoVELOZ and Septiembre: A Biling= ual Edition of Books Two and Three of Dolores Dorantes, by Dolores Dorantes= . Reading in tandem with Dorantes is poet-translator Jen Hofer, joining us= from Los Angeles. Hofer=E2=80=99s recent publications include lip wolf, a= translation of Laura Sol=C3=B3rzano=E2=80=99s lobo de labio (Action Books,= 2007), Sin puertas visibles: An Anthology of Contemporary Poetry by Mexica= n Women (University of Pittsburgh Press and Ediciones Sin Nombre, 2003), sl= ide rule (subpress, 2002), and the chapbooks laws (Dusie Kollectiv, 2006) a= nd lawless (Seeing Eye Books, 2003). She and Patrick Durgin will read toget= her from their collaborative, hybrid-genre book The Route, very shortly for= thcoming from Atelos. ---------------------------------- www.da-crouton.com www.kenningeditions.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 17:53:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: AP American Lit--what's you take on this reading list? In-Reply-To: <3810.75.3.74.173.1186591402.squirrel@www.poetrypoetry.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed OK, it's a prose list. But still, no Poe, no Melville? At least The Man of the Crowd and maybe Benito Sereno or Bartleby. I'd also want to see On the Road and Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas on the list--I taught them in a college intro to amlit course--but I understand why they're absent. Mark At 12:43 PM 8/8/2007, you wrote: >Ok, my literarily-informed friends, my son, Jack, will be a high school >jr this year taking AP American Lit. Given that doing well enough in the >course and on the AP test is considered the equivalent of passing a >college course on the subject I suppose we could consider this a possible >reading list for an Intro Am. Lit class. The list is below: > >If you have the time and inclination, I'd love to read your responses. > >If you teach this course, I'd be curious to see your reading list. Jack >would too. > >We know what we think, but I don't want to bias your responses. > >Adventures of Huckleberry Finn >The Awakening >Catcher in the Rye >The Crucible >The Great Gatsby >In Our Time >Intrepreter of Maladies >Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglas >Passing >The Scarlet Letter >Their Eyes Were Watching > >Charlie ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 04:18:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Audrey Berry Subject: Re: AP American Lit--what's you take on this reading list? In-Reply-To: <3810.75.3.74.173.1186591402.squirrel@www.poetrypoetry.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello Jack I teach high school English, sometimes Juniors, usually seniors; this booklist is pretty standard. The Crucible, The Scarlet Letter, Douglass and Hurston are included in our list, as well as Puddin'head Wilson instead of the Adventures of Huck, sometimes Night is taught, sometimes Hiroshima, one year we used Invisible Man. The Harlem Renaissance is a research area and we access the slides available to local teachers from the RISD musuem. (Just because a book is not on the list doesn't mean the author/area is not read.) Handouts, research, other resources will be used.. Poe, "the graveyard poets", Emerson, Thoreau..usually get thrown in too. The excerpts from these texts are commonly used on the SAT'S ( a base reality to ponder, yet a reality). Hopefully the students will be expected to read the entire texts too. This is actually an issue, kids don't read, they are masters of the short cut. This is American Lit, high school, and a survey class..what are your concerns? What are your thoughts? How much will they write, get a chance to form their own *uestions? (sorry the "cue" key on my keyboard doesn't work) Will their teacher read and correct their work or is it all peer editing? Process, rewriting, investment in their work; hopefully all these things will be generated in the class. Feel free to backchannel me. Audrey --- Charlie Rossiter wrote: > Ok, my literarily-informed friends, my son, Jack, > will be a high school > jr this year taking AP American Lit. Given that > doing well enough in the > course and on the AP test is considered the > equivalent of passing a > college course on the subject I suppose we could > consider this a possible > reading list for an Intro Am. Lit class. The list > is below: > > If you have the time and inclination, I'd love to > read your responses. > > If you teach this course, I'd be curious to see your > reading list. Jack > would too. > > We know what we think, but I don't want to bias your > responses. > > Adventures of Huckleberry Finn > The Awakening > Catcher in the Rye > The Crucible > The Great Gatsby > In Our Time > Intrepreter of Maladies > Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglas > Passing > The Scarlet Letter > Their Eyes Were Watching > > Charlie > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 04:26:17 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alexander Jorgensen Subject: Re: Writers' Collective in Himalayas In-Reply-To: <001601c7d9ea$bf109c60$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Am currently working with others towards the formation of a self-sustaining writer's collective, where both technical support and access to resources are provided to Tibetan writers operating in Himachal Pradesh, India. I am interesting in communicating with those who would be willing to donate a single book towards the formation of a reference library - and we are looking for the kinds of print materials that most of us most probably would not consider rubbish bin filler. Please note that absolutely no money is being requested. As many of you know, I have been working in Himachal Pradesh for the past year or so - and that my activities and interests have taken me to nearly ever corner of the world. The poet Kathup Tsering, a close friend in exile just visited, and I am currently in Kolkata, will be the person in charge of providing center support to writers in the Dharamsala area looking for access to centers of organization and distribution. Email me back channel. Regards, Alexander Jorgensen -- "[H]e who leaps into the void owes no explanation to those who watch.” (Jean-Luc Godard) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 22:20:26 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Schneider Hill Subject: Re: AP American Lit--what's you take on this reading list? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Charlie: I agree with Charles. It's not the list that matters, it's the approach. I'd be interested to hear what that is. I would hope that all classes, not just AP classes, had a bit more contemporary prose, poetry, and drama. I know, though, one is limited often to what's in the book room. Where I teach, we only get book adoption monies every six years (book list change is glacial as a result). One solution of course is to ask students to buy their own books (you can't require that like one can in a college class), but that's not possible for every student... Another solution is to pick up as many used copies of a recent book and run book groups in the class. Contemporary poetry's a lot easier to include especially with so much on the web and a smartboard in the classroom... Another limiting factor in book choice in a public school is censorship, often parent-driven; only one f-bomb or sex scene can get a book or film banned, e.g. The Perks of Being a Wallflower (which actually has many of both) banned from a Milwaukee AP class a few years back. In a perfect world, we wouldn't need book lists... Best, Crag Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 11:43:22 -0500 From: Charlie Rossiter Subject: AP American Lit--what's you take on this reading list? Ok, my literarily-informed friends, my son, Jack, will be a high school jr this year taking AP American Lit. Given that doing well enough in the course and on the AP test is considered the equivalent of passing a college course on the subject I suppose we could consider this a possible reading list for an Intro Am. Lit class. The list is below: If you have the time and inclination, I'd love to read your responses. If you teach this course, I'd be curious to see your reading list. Jack would too. We know what we think, but I don't want to bias your responses. Adventures of Huckleberry Finn The Awakening Catcher in the Rye The Crucible The Great Gatsby In Our Time Intrepreter of Maladies Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglas Passing The Scarlet Letter Their Eyes Were Watching Charlie ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 09:22:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Freind, William Joseph" Subject: Blogs and comment sections MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yeah, obviously everyone who has a blog has the right to run it as he or = she sees fit. And everyone who owns a basketball has the right to stop = the game, take the ball and go home. But this debate isn=92t about = rights; it=92s about intellectual responsibility. Someone (maybe Ron Silliman) said a while back that the comment sections = of some blogs are closer to listservs. I think that=92s accurate, and = that=92s why I think it=92s intellectually suspect (to put it mildly) to = delete comments that aren=92t clearly offensive. Blog owners sometimes = ban people from commenting, but if they do they sure as hell shouldn=92t = delete comments from others who object to the ban, or retroactively = scrub threads related to the ban. Seems odd to me that some of the Flarf bloggers use such a heavy hand in = their comment sections.=20 Bill Freind -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group on behalf of Gary Sullivan Sent: Wed 8/8/2007 4:51 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: John Latta re G. Gatza, K. Johnson on blogos-fears =20 Latta, your attempt at righteous indignation is amusing, but misplaced. = Personal blogs are never entirely open spaces; for that matter, = neither are online bulletin boards nor listservs. When the = administrator of Lucipo, for instance, decided to change the list from = national and open to regional and no-longer-Web-searchable, that was the = owner's right. Just as it is your right to decide against posting an = e-mail to your blog. A blog is not a book or magazine or newspaper, and = it's a bit silly to expect anything on a blog to remain there, as though = it were "in print," and even sillier to launch a campaign against = someone simply because they've made a decision about what to include, or = not. _________________________________________________________________ See what you're getting into.before you go there http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=3DTXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview_05= 07 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 08:51:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: AP American Lit--what's you take on this reading list? In-Reply-To: <3810.75.3.74.173.1186591402.squirrel@www.poetrypoetry.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit what, no moby dick? no billy budd even? what's happened to melville???? Charlie Rossiter wrote: > Ok, my literarily-informed friends, my son, Jack, will be a high school > jr this year taking AP American Lit. Given that doing well enough in the > course and on the AP test is considered the equivalent of passing a > college course on the subject I suppose we could consider this a possible > reading list for an Intro Am. Lit class. The list is below: > > If you have the time and inclination, I'd love to read your responses. > > If you teach this course, I'd be curious to see your reading list. Jack > would too. > > We know what we think, but I don't want to bias your responses. > > Adventures of Huckleberry Finn > The Awakening > Catcher in the Rye > The Crucible > The Great Gatsby > In Our Time > Intrepreter of Maladies > Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglas > Passing > The Scarlet Letter > Their Eyes Were Watching > > Charlie > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 09:15:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Coffey Subject: Berryman resurrected in alt rock lyrics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline "Stuck Between Stations," a song of the Hold Steady's most recent album, deals with Berryman's fatal jump into the Mississippi, as does a song on the brand new Okkervil River album, "The Stage Names." That track is titled "John Allyn Smith Sails." Don't know much about Okkervil River, but Craig Finn of the Hold Steady is a damn good lyricist. -- http://hyperhypo.org/blog http://www.pftborder.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 09:28:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: AP American Lit--what's you take on this reading list? In-Reply-To: <46BB1BFF.2070109@umn.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Not sure what AP refers to, but the book that turned me around the most in high school lit was Autobiography of Malcolm X. But its been so long since I've read it, not sure it would make it thru the censorship radar that Crag speaks of. ~mIEKAL On Aug 9, 2007, at 8:51 AM, Maria Damon wrote: > what, no moby dick? no billy budd even? what's happened to > melville???? > > Charlie Rossiter wrote: >> Ok, my literarily-informed friends, my son, Jack, will be a high >> school >> jr this year taking AP American Lit. Given that doing well enough >> in the >> course and on the AP test is considered the equivalent of passing a >> college course on the subject I suppose we could consider this a >> possible >> reading list for an Intro Am. Lit class. The list is below: >> >> If you have the time and inclination, I'd love to read your >> responses. >> >> If you teach this course, I'd be curious to see your reading >> list. Jack >> would too. >> >> We know what we think, but I don't want to bias your responses. >> >> Adventures of Huckleberry Finn >> The Awakening >> Catcher in the Rye >> The Crucible >> The Great Gatsby >> In Our Time >> Intrepreter of Maladies >> Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglas >> Passing >> The Scarlet Letter >> Their Eyes Were Watching >> >> Charlie >> ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 07:49:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: Bjork's Medullar Recitative of e.e. cumming's Unrealities, "people who never existed" & more on JB's PJs In-Reply-To: <8C9A7E760507BA4-B90-4E7A@webmail-dd21.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I really enjoyed the poem "People Who Never Existed" and the visual "Satisfied Customer". I'm sorry this was the first time I've looked at your site. I will return to it again. Regards, Tom Savage "W.B. Keckler" wrote: Today on Joe Brainard's Pyjamas some Icelandic Health (hey get your Omega 3's people!) in the form of Bjork's Medullar recitative of an e.e. cummings poem, new poetry including "People Who Never Existed," and "spooky chicory" and the usual unusual?visual shenanigans...oh and as Linda Ritchman says "ps Swiss Premium Southern Brew in the gallon size" tastes VERY similar to Mcdonald's Sweet Tea for those of you who are already addicted..and much cheaper obviously not to mention the drive time and wait time..."Discuss..." The heat index is "fried but loving it" @ http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. --------------------------------- Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 07:30:11 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: Writers' Collective in Himalayas In-Reply-To: <896764.13315.qm@web54603.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit For three years, I lived in a town in the foothills of the Indian Himalayas called Dalhousie. Six months of each year, I lived with Westerners and a wonderful community of Tibetan exiles (this was in the early 70's) including the now world-renowned Gyuto Tantric College/Choir. I would be glad to send you a good book for the region. Just give me your mailing address and I will do it by snail-mail, still the only way to send printed books, I believe. Regards, Tom Savage Alexander Jorgensen wrote: Am currently working with others towards the formation of a self-sustaining writer's collective, where both technical support and access to resources are provided to Tibetan writers operating in Himachal Pradesh, India. I am interesting in communicating with those who would be willing to donate a single book towards the formation of a reference library - and we are looking for the kinds of print materials that most of us most probably would not consider rubbish bin filler. Please note that absolutely no money is being requested. As many of you know, I have been working in Himachal Pradesh for the past year or so - and that my activities and interests have taken me to nearly ever corner of the world. The poet Kathup Tsering, a close friend in exile just visited, and I am currently in Kolkata, will be the person in charge of providing center support to writers in the Dharamsala area looking for access to centers of organization and distribution. Email me back channel. Regards, Alexander Jorgensen -- "[H]e who leaps into the void owes no explanation to those who watch.” (Jean-Luc Godard) --------------------------------- Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 11:10:52 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: Re: Bjork's Medullar Recitative of e.e. cumming's Unrealities, "people who ne... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks much, Tom! I wrote those poems at work...i think i'd like to do a whole book of poems written at work and call it "poems in the form of stolen time." LOL i enjoy yr posts to the listserv...be well! Warmly, Bill ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 08:22:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: Writers' Collective in Himalayas In-Reply-To: <816680.84050.qm@web31110.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I first read all the more obscure novels of Herman Hesse in McCloud Ganj. I just threw or gave away CASES of books, but may still have some. Any use for VHS or DVDs? We've already packed ours, but maybe somebody else has them -- they are light weight. -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly@gmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 12:53:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Writers' Collective in Himalayas In-Reply-To: <896764.13315.qm@web54603.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable what kinds of books are you looking for, alex? best ruth On 8/9/07 7:26 AM, "Alexander Jorgensen" wrote: > Am currently working with others towards the formation of a self-sustaini= ng > writer's collective, where both technical support and access to resources= are > provided to Tibetan writers operating in Himachal Pradesh, India. > =20 > I am interesting in communicating with those who would be willing to do= nate > a single book towards the formation of a reference library - and we are > looking for the kinds of print materials that most of us most probably wo= uld > not consider rubbish bin filler. > =20 > Please note that absolutely no money is being requested. > =20 > As many of you know, I have been working in Himachal Pradesh for the pa= st > year or so - and that my activities and interests have taken me to nearly= ever > corner of the world. The poet Kathup Tsering, a close friend in exile jus= t > visited, and I am currently in Kolkata, will be the person in charge of > providing center support to writers in the Dharamsala area looking for ac= cess > to centers of organization and distribution. > =20 > Email me back channel. > =20 > Regards, > Alexander Jorgensen >=20 >=20 > -- > "[H]e who leaps into the void owes no explanation > to those who watch.=B2 (Jean-Luc Godard) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 12:54:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: AP American Lit--what's you take on this reading list? In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit and Invisible Man. On 8/9/07 10:28 AM, "mIEKAL aND" wrote: > Not sure what AP refers to, but the book that turned me around the > most in high school lit was Autobiography of Malcolm X. But its been > so long since I've read it, not sure it would make it thru the > censorship radar that Crag speaks of. > > ~mIEKAL > > > On Aug 9, 2007, at 8:51 AM, Maria Damon wrote: > >> what, no moby dick? no billy budd even? what's happened to >> melville???? >> >> Charlie Rossiter wrote: >>> Ok, my literarily-informed friends, my son, Jack, will be a high >>> school >>> jr this year taking AP American Lit. Given that doing well enough >>> in the >>> course and on the AP test is considered the equivalent of passing a >>> college course on the subject I suppose we could consider this a >>> possible >>> reading list for an Intro Am. Lit class. The list is below: >>> >>> If you have the time and inclination, I'd love to read your >>> responses. >>> >>> If you teach this course, I'd be curious to see your reading >>> list. Jack >>> would too. >>> >>> We know what we think, but I don't want to bias your responses. >>> >>> Adventures of Huckleberry Finn >>> The Awakening >>> Catcher in the Rye >>> The Crucible >>> The Great Gatsby >>> In Our Time >>> Intrepreter of Maladies >>> Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglas >>> Passing >>> The Scarlet Letter >>> Their Eyes Were Watching >>> >>> Charlie >>> ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 10:47:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve russell Subject: hAS ANYONE READ PAUL AUSTER'S... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I've recently picked up the collected poems of Paul Auster, completed while he was in his twenties. He hasn't written poetry in over two decades. Too bad. I love this collection... --------------------------------- Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 02:40:02 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christophe Casamassima Subject: Re: AP American Lit--what's you take on this reading list? Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 You forgot Ulysses. I read it in my mother's womb. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Charlie Rossiter" > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: AP American Lit--what's you take on this reading list? > Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 11:43:22 -0500 >=20 >=20 > Ok, my literarily-informed friends, my son, Jack, will be a high school > jr this year taking AP American Lit. Given that doing well enough in the > course and on the AP test is considered the equivalent of passing a > college course on the subject I suppose we could consider this a possible > reading list for an Intro Am. Lit class. The list is below: >=20 > If you have the time and inclination, I'd love to read your responses. >=20 > If you teach this course, I'd be curious to see your reading list. Jack > would too. >=20 > We know what we think, but I don't want to bias your responses. >=20 > Adventures of Huckleberry Finn > The Awakening > Catcher in the Rye > The Crucible > The Great Gatsby > In Our Time > Intrepreter of Maladies > Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglas > Passing > The Scarlet Letter > Their Eyes Were Watching >=20 > Charlie > =3D One Jaco Luxury Condo Resort Affordable luxury at our 10-story condominium resort in the heart of Jaco, = with convention center, huge pools and entertainment areas. Penthouses avai= lable, plus one/two bedrooms. http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick?redirectid=3D537125b2c603102f405ef= 75415d9cfaf --=20 Powered By Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 12:37:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Re: Blogs and comment sections In-Reply-To: <33ACEA914BCA134DA05D00D1B540845A010471EE@EX2K3-3.rowanads.rowan.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Thinking more on this question, framing it as "intellectually suspect" is a very good way of putting it. Thank you Mr Feind. The deleting in the present of an already approved and placed comment, and its attendant comments by others, seems like an "instant replay" method of "reconsidering the call"--some time later in the game--when the comments have already taken on a life of their own at the blog--and elsewhere. To delete then, and proceed to work backwards through time and erase every trace of the persons involved--is to be employed at Winston Smith's job in 1984--essentially the re-writing, re-visioning, of history--a shared history, a social history, and in this case a literary history since it involves poetry directly (a poem) and indirectly (discussions of poetics prior to the poem and after--and discussions in the past--). Yes it is one's own blog--but one has allowed the comments to be there, and made space for a social activity to occur involving others--those social spaces no longer in a sense "belong to me"--because of the collective work involved. Since the collective work is a shared history of several participants as well as readers--who may want to return to the discussion at some point--or a person trying to trace the development of an idea, a poem, the dissonances among various theories and methods of writing--to erase it is a way of suppressing knowledge that having been allowed there in the first place, is trusted to be remaining there for later reference. The deletions are also a way of erasing and denying part of one's own life and work--to deny one ever had an exchange or contact with certain persons and works--and so suppress part of one's own history and identity, effectively "burying the past" as much as possible--yet at the same time going on as though one were the same person anyway. (And yet out there some where these messages, comments, replies, poems, all saved and at some point in the future come back to haunt one--cause one to commit perjury in denying their having happened-- and then there being discovered copies to exist--) What if one began to be treated by others as actually missing these gaps in one's life--or--treated as if everything you deleted they have never forgotten anything of in the tiniest detail and will endlessly remind you of all of them? Allowing comments means one is entering the care taking of a social, historical record--that particular shared space is no longer one's own to control in terms of eradicating writing "that is of Interest" to paraphrase the title/subject of the poem and of the blog owner's initial theme. If one starts deleting comments and then all comments by related persons back through time, a historical record is being wiped off the map so to speak, and a suppression of history is occurring. Taking a look at Lime Trees today, it states that it is the owner's blog and he can do anything he wants with it, basically on a whim, with or without a reason refusing or removing comments. In that case, one wonders who is going to want to respond--comment--participate--when a change of mood from one moment to the next will, like Caligula's shifting fancies, suddenly eradicate several persons from the face of the earth and further action in history, neighborhoods from existence,whole libraries' worth of certain kinds of poems or books, plays, novels from use, or other, competing Gods from their pedestals. The suppression of debate, discussion, "dissidents" is part of the Homeland Security Bunker and Wall mentality, in which fear of difference, fear of "alternative energies", fear of critique leads not to the "end" of the author, the narrative, history, but on the contrary, their ever more fortified and solidified Monuments. More and more firmly entrenched become a few chosen viewpoints, selected & approved writers, networks, sites, methods, procedures, definitions, techniques as well as the narratives of their origins, constructions, receptions, productions, distributions and pedagogies. The shaping of what becomes the Uber Narrative of various schools and movements is posited on a systematic denial of other alternatives, different and/or dissident "takes"--and so what can be described as a whimsical deleting of things which don't please one today--can just as easily be defined as a cover for a deliberate deleting of anything which does not conform. Every time a poet or poets start being censored, deleted and wiped out retrospectively not for being beyond the pale in some truly hideous way--but on a "whim" or due to their view point not conforming--it sends a message to others that this is indeed a perfectly fine thing to do. Pretty soon certain poets or viewpoints will have a harder and harder time of being heard--or--if heard, subjected to a baragae of attacks and backlash of all manner of personal attacks, attacks on everything they have ever stood for, out of mere association and so on--A lot of the time it makes one wonder if that poet isn't speaking 'truth to power" if they are causing such an uproar. At least one needs to be given a chance somehow to hear others in order to understand why they are wrong, right?--Or why such a fool and so forth--let them be heard. But if not, then seems something is being hidden. Not only s"seems"--something IS being hidden-- In the present, it is entirely possible for one to read and write with great empathy for writers and writings that suffered such fates in the past---or do now, in another society--subculture---and may still also be participating in the present in just such treatment of others close to hand. On 8/9/07, Freind, William Joseph wrote: > > Yeah, obviously everyone who has a blog has the right to run it as he or > she sees fit. And everyone who owns a basketball has the right to stop the > game, take the ball and go home. But this debate isn't about rights; it's > about intellectual responsibility. > > Someone (maybe Ron Silliman) said a while back that the comment sections > of some blogs are closer to listservs. I think that's accurate, and that's > why I think it's intellectually suspect (to put it mildly) to delete > comments that aren't clearly offensive. Blog owners sometimes ban people > from commenting, but if they do they sure as hell shouldn't delete comments > from others who object to the ban, or retroactively scrub threads related to > the ban. > > Seems odd to me that some of the Flarf bloggers use such a heavy hand in > their comment sections. > > > Bill Freind > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group on behalf of Gary Sullivan > Sent: Wed 8/8/2007 4:51 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: John Latta re G. Gatza, K. Johnson on blogos-fears > > Latta, your attempt at righteous indignation is amusing, but misplaced. > Personal blogs are never entirely open spaces; for that matter, neither > are online bulletin boards nor listservs. When the administrator of Lucipo, > for instance, decided to change the list from national and open to regional > and no-longer-Web-searchable, that was the owner's right. Just as it is your > right to decide against posting an e-mail to your blog. A blog is not a book > or magazine or newspaper, and it's a bit silly to expect anything on a blog > to remain there, as though it were "in print," and even sillier to launch a > campaign against someone simply because they've made a decision about what > to include, or not. > _________________________________________________________________ > See what you're getting into.before you go there > http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview_0507 > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 19:40:19 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: blacksox@ATT.NET Subject: Re: hAS ANYONE READ PAUL AUSTER'S... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit You are talking about the book 'Disappearances". I have told him this is the showcase of his talent on many occasions. He was discouraged at this book not selling. Within 10 years he had sold the screenplay for "New York Stories" and was living large. "LuLu on the Bridge" wasn't far behind that. The poems in Disappearances are concise and hard hitting. Scribe The name never left his lips: he talked himself into another body: he found his room again in Babel. It was written a flower falls from his eye and blooms in a strangers mouth. A swallow rhymes with hunger and cannot leave its egg. He invents the orpan in tatters, he will hold a small black flag riddled with winter. It is spring, and below his window he hears a hundred white stones turn to raging phlox. He had a great deal of potential. I would love to see what he might be doing now with his verse. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 12:46:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: AP American Lit--what's you take on this reading list? In-Reply-To: <3810.75.3.74.173.1186591402.squirrel@www.poetrypoetry.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed That looks pretty similar to what I recall of my IB World literature class in the 11th grade. I think it's interesting that Passing is on there as well as Their Eyes Were Watching God. Seems like over representation of the Harlem Renaissance, unless both books are intended to be part of a comparison study. My favorite comparison of that sort is Autobiography of an Ex-Colored Man with Black No More, so you might suggest those to your son if he does any independent study or takes a liking to Harlem Rennaisance literature. Passing also strikes me as a strange choice for a High School lit class as it's a very subtle novel. Huck Finn and Gatsby are pretty standard fair at this point, although I very strongly believe that young readers of Gatsby should be told that they should read the book again in their twenties to see if the book is markedly different from their memory. Also Scarlet Letter and the Crucible seem to be over burdening the poor new england colonists with excessive disapproving hindsight. I also think Interpreter of Maladies is an odd contemporary choice and have visions of really horrible test questions about "asian american experience." My girlfriend loves that book though. On Wed, 8 Aug 2007, Charlie Rossiter wrote: > Ok, my literarily-informed friends, my son, Jack, will be a high school > jr this year taking AP American Lit. Given that doing well enough in the > course and on the AP test is considered the equivalent of passing a > college course on the subject I suppose we could consider this a possible > reading list for an Intro Am. Lit class. The list is below: > > If you have the time and inclination, I'd love to read your responses. > > If you teach this course, I'd be curious to see your reading list. Jack > would too. > > We know what we think, but I don't want to bias your responses. > > Adventures of Huckleberry Finn > The Awakening > Catcher in the Rye > The Crucible > The Great Gatsby > In Our Time > Intrepreter of Maladies > Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglas > Passing > The Scarlet Letter > Their Eyes Were Watching > > Charlie > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 12:47:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Warren Lloyd Subject: Re: AP American Lit--what's you take on this reading list? In-Reply-To: <20070809184002.91C0313F28@ws5-9.us4.outblaze.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit How about Henry James? Christophe Casamassima wrote: You forgot Ulysses. I read it in my mother's womb. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Charlie Rossiter" > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: AP American Lit--what's you take on this reading list? > Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 11:43:22 -0500 > > > Ok, my literarily-informed friends, my son, Jack, will be a high school > jr this year taking AP American Lit. Given that doing well enough in the > course and on the AP test is considered the equivalent of passing a > college course on the subject I suppose we could consider this a possible > reading list for an Intro Am. Lit class. The list is below: > > If you have the time and inclination, I'd love to read your responses. > > If you teach this course, I'd be curious to see your reading list. Jack > would too. > > We know what we think, but I don't want to bias your responses. > > Adventures of Huckleberry Finn > The Awakening > Catcher in the Rye > The Crucible > The Great Gatsby > In Our Time > Intrepreter of Maladies > Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglas > Passing > The Scarlet Letter > Their Eyes Were Watching > > Charlie > = One Jaco Luxury Condo Resort Affordable luxury at our 10-story condominium resort in the heart of Jaco, with convention center, huge pools and entertainment areas. Penthouses available, plus one/two bedrooms. http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick?redirectid=537125b2c603102f405ef75415d9cfaf -- Powered By Outblaze --------------------------------- Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 12:27:44 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: AP American Lit--what's you take on this reading list? In-Reply-To: <20070809184002.91C0313F28@ws5-9.us4.outblaze.com> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit This might come as a surprise, but that's not a US book. On Aug 9, 2007, at 11:40 AM, Christophe Casamassima wrote: > You forgot Ulysses. I read it in my mother's womb. > > > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Charlie Rossiter" >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: AP American Lit--what's you take on this reading list? >> Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 11:43:22 -0500 >> >> >> Ok, my literarily-informed friends, my son, Jack, will be a high >> school >> jr this year taking AP American Lit. Given that doing well enough in >> the >> course and on the AP test is considered the equivalent of passing a >> college course on the subject I suppose we could consider this a >> possible >> reading list for an Intro Am. Lit class. The list is below: >> >> If you have the time and inclination, I'd love to read your responses. >> >> If you teach this course, I'd be curious to see your reading list. >> Jack >> would too. >> >> We know what we think, but I don't want to bias your responses. >> >> Adventures of Huckleberry Finn >> The Awakening >> Catcher in the Rye >> The Crucible >> The Great Gatsby >> In Our Time >> Intrepreter of Maladies >> Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglas >> Passing >> The Scarlet Letter >> Their Eyes Were Watching >> >> Charlie > >> > > > = > One Jaco Luxury Condo Resort > Affordable luxury at our 10-story condominium resort in the heart of > Jaco, with convention center, huge pools and entertainment areas. > Penthouses available, plus one/two bedrooms. > http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick? > redirectid=537125b2c603102f405ef75415d9cfaf > > > -- > Powered By Outblaze > > George Harvey Bowering More than meets the eye. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 12:26:45 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: AP American Lit--what's you take on this reading list? In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Oh Boy, this is going to be another of those endless lists with book titles further and further from the conventional. On Aug 9, 2007, at 9:54 AM, Ruth Lepson wrote: > and Invisible Man. > > > On 8/9/07 10:28 AM, "mIEKAL aND" wrote: > >> Not sure what AP refers to, but the book that turned me around the >> most in high school lit was Autobiography of Malcolm X. But its been >> so long since I've read it, not sure it would make it thru the >> censorship radar that Crag speaks of. >> >> ~mIEKAL >> >> >> On Aug 9, 2007, at 8:51 AM, Maria Damon wrote: >> >>> what, no moby dick? no billy budd even? what's happened to >>> melville???? >>> >>> Charlie Rossiter wrote: >>>> Ok, my literarily-informed friends, my son, Jack, will be a high >>>> school >>>> jr this year taking AP American Lit. Given that doing well enough >>>> in the >>>> course and on the AP test is considered the equivalent of passing a >>>> college course on the subject I suppose we could consider this a >>>> possible >>>> reading list for an Intro Am. Lit class. The list is below: >>>> >>>> If you have the time and inclination, I'd love to read your >>>> responses. >>>> >>>> If you teach this course, I'd be curious to see your reading >>>> list. Jack >>>> would too. >>>> >>>> We know what we think, but I don't want to bias your responses. >>>> >>>> Adventures of Huckleberry Finn >>>> The Awakening >>>> Catcher in the Rye >>>> The Crucible >>>> The Great Gatsby >>>> In Our Time >>>> Intrepreter of Maladies >>>> Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglas >>>> Passing >>>> The Scarlet Letter >>>> Their Eyes Were Watching >>>> >>>> Charlie >>>> > > George Satisfied with his undergarments. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 16:37:53 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: Re: AP American Lit--what's you take on this reading list? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just so the boy gets some good healthy Kathy Acker, preferably a few titles with lots of unhealthy f*cking and thoughts on why we're all whores from birth thanks to governments which make sure to make the struggle for survival, of necessity, a whore's game... compared to Acker, Salinger looks like Seinfeld....when will the future catch up with the past in literature anyway? xo entity @ joebrainardspyjamas google me or something ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 13:39:41 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Kasimor Subject: Re: AP American Lit--what's you take on this reading list? In-Reply-To: <218549.71055.qm@web50211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit How about Flannery O'Connor? How could she be missed in an American Lit. course? Warren Lloyd wrote: How about Henry James? Christophe Casamassima wrote: You forgot Ulysses. I read it in my mother's womb. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Charlie Rossiter" > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: AP American Lit--what's you take on this reading list? > Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 11:43:22 -0500 > > > Ok, my literarily-informed friends, my son, Jack, will be a high school > jr this year taking AP American Lit. Given that doing well enough in the > course and on the AP test is considered the equivalent of passing a > college course on the subject I suppose we could consider this a possible > reading list for an Intro Am. Lit class. The list is below: > > If you have the time and inclination, I'd love to read your responses. > > If you teach this course, I'd be curious to see your reading list. Jack > would too. > > We know what we think, but I don't want to bias your responses. > > Adventures of Huckleberry Finn > The Awakening > Catcher in the Rye > The Crucible > The Great Gatsby > In Our Time > Intrepreter of Maladies > Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglas > Passing > The Scarlet Letter > Their Eyes Were Watching > > Charlie > = One Jaco Luxury Condo Resort Affordable luxury at our 10-story condominium resort in the heart of Jaco, with convention center, huge pools and entertainment areas. Penthouses available, plus one/two bedrooms. http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick?redirectid=537125b2c603102f405ef75415d9cfaf -- Powered By Outblaze --------------------------------- Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. --------------------------------- Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 18:47:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: Re: Blogs and comment sections MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Equating an Arab-American poet deleting a few comments from his personal bl= og with "Homeland Security" is about as "intellectually suspect" as it gets= , David. =20 =20 But, then: "the suppression of history"? "Caligula"? The "eradicat[ion]" = of "persons from the face of the earth"?=20 =20 _________________________________________________________________ Recharge--play some free games. Win cool prizes too! http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=3DCLUB_wlmailtextlink= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 14:12:20 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: AP American Lit--what's you take on this reading list? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed for me it was A Clockwork Orange and Chronicle of a Death Foretold. I read them both my Junior Year and came away mindblown On Thu, 9 Aug 2007, Ruth Lepson wrote: > and Invisible Man. > > > On 8/9/07 10:28 AM, "mIEKAL aND" wrote: > >> Not sure what AP refers to, but the book that turned me around the >> most in high school lit was Autobiography of Malcolm X. But its been >> so long since I've read it, not sure it would make it thru the >> censorship radar that Crag speaks of. >> >> ~mIEKAL >> >> >> On Aug 9, 2007, at 8:51 AM, Maria Damon wrote: >> >>> what, no moby dick? no billy budd even? what's happened to >>> melville???? >>> >>> Charlie Rossiter wrote: >>>> Ok, my literarily-informed friends, my son, Jack, will be a high >>>> school >>>> jr this year taking AP American Lit. Given that doing well enough >>>> in the >>>> course and on the AP test is considered the equivalent of passing a >>>> college course on the subject I suppose we could consider this a >>>> possible >>>> reading list for an Intro Am. Lit class. The list is below: >>>> >>>> If you have the time and inclination, I'd love to read your >>>> responses. >>>> >>>> If you teach this course, I'd be curious to see your reading >>>> list. Jack >>>> would too. >>>> >>>> We know what we think, but I don't want to bias your responses. >>>> >>>> Adventures of Huckleberry Finn >>>> The Awakening >>>> Catcher in the Rye >>>> The Crucible >>>> The Great Gatsby >>>> In Our Time >>>> Intrepreter of Maladies >>>> Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglas >>>> Passing >>>> The Scarlet Letter >>>> Their Eyes Were Watching >>>> >>>> Charlie >>>> > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 16:07:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: AP American Lit--what's you take on this reading list? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable as usual--no sign of the First Americans!Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee> Dat= e: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 12:46:56 -0700> From: jfq@MYUW.NET> Subject: Re: AP Amer= ican Lit--what's you take on this reading list?> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFA= LO.EDU> > That looks pretty similar to what I recall of my IB World literat= ure class in the 11th grade.> > I think it's interesting that Passing is on= there as well as Their Eyes Were Watching God. Seems like over representat= ion of the Harlem Renaissance, unless both books are intended to be part of= a comparison study. My favorite comparison of that sort is Autobiography o= f an Ex-Colored Man with Black No More, so you might suggest those to your = son if he does any independent study or takes a liking to Harlem Rennaisanc= e literature. Passing also strikes me as a strange choice for a High School= lit class as it's a very subtle novel.> > Huck Finn and Gatsby are pretty = standard fair at this point, although I very strongly believe that young re= aders of Gatsby should be told that they should read the book again in thei= r twenties to see if the book is markedly different from their memory.> > A= lso Scarlet Letter and the Crucible seem to be over burdening the poor new = england colonists with excessive disapproving hindsight.> > I also think In= terpreter of Maladies is an odd contemporary choice and have visions of rea= lly horrible test questions about "asian american experience."> > My girlfr= iend loves that book though.> > On Wed, 8 Aug 2007, Charlie Rossiter wrote:= > > > Ok, my literarily-informed friends, my son, Jack, will be a high sch= ool> > jr this year taking AP American Lit. Given that doing well enough i= n the> > course and on the AP test is considered the equivalent of passing = a> > college course on the subject I suppose we could consider this a possi= ble> > reading list for an Intro Am. Lit class. The list is below:> >> > I= f you have the time and inclination, I'd love to read your responses.> >> >= If you teach this course, I'd be curious to see your reading list. Jack> = > would too.> >> > We know what we think, but I don't want to bias your res= ponses.> >> > Adventures of Huckleberry Finn> > The Awakening> > Catcher in= the Rye> > The Crucible> > The Great Gatsby> > In Our Time> > Intrepreter = of Maladies> > Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglas> > Passing> > The= Scarlet Letter> > Their Eyes Were Watching> >> > Charlie> > _________________________________________________________________ Recharge--play some free games. Win cool prizes too! http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=3DCLUB_wlmailtextlink= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 17:15:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: maureen Subject: Re: AP American Lit--what's you take on this reading list? In-Reply-To: <772028.32564.qm@web51812.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit What I think is particularly amusing about this thread is that it sounds as if the AP course is actually trying to teach high schoolers American Literature. I think it's about branding and advertising and labeling "rigor" rather than really understanding American Letters. There's more than one AP English course by the way -- my daughter just completed her junior year and has taken one AP English (which included Bodega Dreams as a novel heavily influenced by The Great Gatsby) -- and is about to take her second AP English course. There was no poetry at all last year and I'm not sure she'll get any this year. She is reading Invisible Man this summer. My two cents Maureen Robins 8/9/07 4:39 PM, Mary Kasimor at mkasimor@YAHOO.COM wrote: > How about Flannery O'Connor? How could she be missed in an American Lit. > course? > > Warren Lloyd wrote: How about Henry James? > > Christophe Casamassima wrote: You forgot Ulysses. I read it in my mother's > womb. > > > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Charlie Rossiter" >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: AP American Lit--what's you take on this reading list? >> Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 11:43:22 -0500 >> >> >> Ok, my literarily-informed friends, my son, Jack, will be a high school >> jr this year taking AP American Lit. Given that doing well enough in the >> course and on the AP test is considered the equivalent of passing a >> college course on the subject I suppose we could consider this a possible >> reading list for an Intro Am. Lit class. The list is below: >> >> If you have the time and inclination, I'd love to read your responses. >> >> If you teach this course, I'd be curious to see your reading list. Jack >> would too. >> >> We know what we think, but I don't want to bias your responses. >> >> Adventures of Huckleberry Finn >> The Awakening >> Catcher in the Rye >> The Crucible >> The Great Gatsby >> In Our Time >> Intrepreter of Maladies >> Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglas >> Passing >> The Scarlet Letter >> Their Eyes Were Watching >> >> Charlie > >> > > > = > One Jaco Luxury Condo Resort > Affordable luxury at our 10-story condominium resort in the heart of Jaco, > with convention center, huge pools and entertainment areas. Penthouses > available, plus one/two bedrooms. > http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick?redirectid=537125b2c603102f405ef75415 > d9cfaf > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 17:45:56 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Melnicove Subject: Re: AP American Lit--what's you take on this re ading list? In-Reply-To: Pine.LNX.4.43.0708091246560.22835@hymn07.u.washington.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Who knows but if men constructed their dwellings with their own hands, = and provided for themselves and families simply and honestly enough, the= poetic faculty would be universally developed, as birds universally sin= g when they are so engaged=3F" --Thoreau, WALDEN =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F =20 On Wed, 8 Aug 2007, Charlie Rossiter wrote: =20 > Ok, my literarily-informed friends, my son, Jack, will be a high sc= hool > jr this year taking AP American Lit. Given that doing well enough i= n the > course and on the AP test is considered the equivalent of passing a > college course on the subject I suppose we could consider this a pos= sible > reading list for an Intro Am. Lit class. The list is below: > > If you have the time and inclination, I'd love to read your response= s. > > If you teach this course, I'd be curious to see your reading list. = Jack > would too. > > We know what we think, but I don't want to bias your responses. > > Adventures of Huckleberry Finn > The Awakening > Catcher in the Rye > The Crucible > The Great Gatsby > In Our Time > Intrepreter of Maladies > Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglas > Passing > The Scarlet Letter > Their Eyes Were Watching > > Charlie > =20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 19:42:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nada Gordon Subject: Re: Blogs and comment sections Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I think of my blog as my living room -- my parlor, really. If a guest behaves rudely, I feel I have every right to make him leave. If he later turns out to be spreading nasty rumors about me or trying to defame me in some way, I don't think it's Stalinist of me to excise his face from group photographs, cross his name out of my journal, and spray air freshener on the spot he used to sit. D.B. Chirot's metaphor of the comments field of a blog as a historical record/ exercise of democracy is interesting (and idealistic), but overblown -- and to my mind, it's inaccurate. A blog is not some kind of microcosm of the polis -- it's a private space whose occupant sometimes invites collegiality, discussion, and response; it may be wiser not to, but then it's also less fun. (I personally like to entertain, and practically live for repartee.) On the other hand, I'm not much of a fan of abuse. My comments boxes were being haunted (anonymously) for a while by someone who had done something terrible to me many years before; he was leaving obnoxious insults like so many toxic droppings. Not only did I ban him from commenting on my blog, but I did in fact delete his comments from the "historical record." Now, the case under discussion here on Poetics may be less extreme, but when Bill Freind says that "it's intellectually suspect (to put it mildly) to delete comments that aren't clearly offensive" -- could we not keep in mind that "clearly offensive" is entirely subject to interpretation? For example, the man who did "something terrible" to me, in my view, date-raped me; I'm sure he thought he was just having a good time -- different interpretations of events, there you have it. Blog-owners have a right to determine what does and does not offend them. D.B. Chirot says that blog comments are "a shared history, a social history, and in this case a literary history since it involves poetry directly" -- but is anything, and especially a blog comment, just about poetry? Aren't all speech acts driven by all kinds of motivations including rage and power? Isn't there always an emotional subtext a "neutral" reader may or may not get? It's specious to say that any discussion about poetry is only ever about poetry. We're throwing around metaphors here, and some just don't feel right to me. My blog is decidedly NOT a basketball game, a historical record, or a social history. It is a party -- MY party. If Kasey Mohammad wants to rid his blog of what he perceives of as a kind of taint, he has every right to do so, without being compared to CALIGULA or HOMELAND SECURITY. Please! If people feel that their comments are SO IMPORTANT that they should not let them run the risk of disappearing or being disappeared, there are two options: 1) start their own blogs! or 2) at the very least, save their comments as documents "for the historical record." And please, just let people enjoy their parties. Everything is temporary anyway. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 18:45:44 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ram Devineni Subject: One the Edge and Verse Theater Production MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Friends: Please join us for these two events. On the Edge: Transgression and the Dangerous Other. A conference of "intellectual and artistic transgression" featuring presentations/performances by Amiri Baraka, Jock Young, Carlos Arredondo, Tony Jefferson, Baba Israel, Grandmothers Against the War, Anthony Poppa and many others. When: August 9-10. Where: John Jay College and CUNY Graduate Center (and art exhibit, "Theatre of Cruelty" at White Box, 525 West 26th St), NYC. For schedule and registration www.jjay.cuny.edu/ontheedge/ , for further information email ontheedge2007@gmail.com or ( 212) 237-8694. Verse Theater Manhattan presents readings of "the pussy" by Michael McClure and "the gold standard" by Kenneth Koch Directed by James Milton Staring Bruce Barton, Alex Bilu and Alex Moggridge. Bowery Poetry Club 308 Bowery @ Bleeker St., NYC Sat, August 11, 2007 at 1pm. $6 More information: http://www.versetheater.org/ Cheers Ram Devineni Rattapallax Please send future emails to devineni@rattapallax.com for press ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 21:21:12 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Simon DeDeo Subject: give me that soapbox MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Actually, I have my own complaint. Safari is the enemy of all poetry. It truly is. There is, in the CSS "laws", a combination of commands that should, I say should, be absolutely perfect for poetry. Every single web browser that I've encountered (OK, I didn't try lynx) handles the particular combination of environments correctly so as to produce perfectly set poems. Except Safari! It does not implement word wrap correctly in the environment, meaning that poems with long lines have the breaks inserted in the middle of a wor d like that. It is an outstanding disregard for standards, but only (as far as I can tell) poets have pushed the correct buttons in the correct order to trigger it. This set us back at least two months with absent because basically I had to overcome my depression, rip out masses of gorgeous CSS and start again. Kind re gards, S imon ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 22:59:20 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ann Bogle Subject: Re: AP American Lit--what's you take on this reading list? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In high school we read Hemingway & Charlotte Bronte; we had an excellent newspaper. Besides this, I remember reading May Sarton's novel about an old folks' farmhouse, an alternative to nursing homes. The exact title I cannot recall; it was something like That They Were or They Were That Way. The story, though very quiet, affected me for a long time. The whole time I was in college I imagined meeting friends who would cooperatively save each other from this disaster that had happened in late life to people's grandparents: people's grandparents were parked in these unimaginative buildings with boring green grass and without gardens (the grandparents had grown gardens), with small TVs and plastic chairs, without cars, in nursing homes to whom they had turned over their holdings; they were put on drugs. I carried that little novel in me like a song, but people I knew were not thinking of old age yet. Before they'd thought of turning old, one or two had thought of pushing much younger people to the side NOW, even of putting them on drugs, of blocking access. Sometimes I made friends with people foreign in that sense that we didn't appreciate each other. Life-long writing friends were friends one met in the writing schools and who could read each other's work over time, who would offer encouragement in living as people who write. These were good thoughts & daydreams that started with reading that novel by May Sarton. The high school class was among the few -- creative writing workshop was the other likely place -- in which we read American writers. In a message dated 8/9/2007 12:57:37 P.M. Central Daylight Time, ruthlepson@COMCAST.NET writes: and Invisible Man. On 8/9/07 10:28 AM, "mIEKAL aND" wrote: > Not sure what AP refers to, but the book that turned me around the > most in high school lit was Autobiography of Malcolm X. But its been > so long since I've read it, not sure it would make it thru the > censorship radar that Crag speaks of. > > ~mIEKAL ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 20:39:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Hugh Behm-Steinberg Subject: Re: AP American Lit--what's you take on this reading list? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I agree with George. The trick to doing well on the test, at least the essay portion, is to pick one book and know it really, really well. Canonical helps, but I picked Hesse's Siddhartha and scored a five, despite misspelling Hesse throughout my essay. That, plus getting lots of practice in how to analyze bits and pieces of text, being able to accomplish weird tasks like matching random paragraphs to their corresponding literary periods, and otherwise having a broad knowledge of American lit -- whatever's in Norton's. The contemporary is fun but it won't be on the test. Hugh Behm-Steinberg George Bowering wrote: Oh Boy, this is going to be another of those endless lists with book titles further and further from the conventional. On Aug 9, 2007, at 9:54 AM, Ruth Lepson wrote: > and Invisible Man. > > > On 8/9/07 10:28 AM, "mIEKAL aND" wrote: > >> Not sure what AP refers to, but the book that turned me around the >> most in high school lit was Autobiography of Malcolm X. But its been >> so long since I've read it, not sure it would make it thru the >> censorship radar that Crag speaks of. >> >> ~mIEKAL >> >> >> On Aug 9, 2007, at 8:51 AM, Maria Damon wrote: >> >>> what, no moby dick? no billy budd even? what's happened to >>> melville???? >>> >>> Charlie Rossiter wrote: >>>> Ok, my literarily-informed friends, my son, Jack, will be a high >>>> school >>>> jr this year taking AP American Lit. Given that doing well enough >>>> in the >>>> course and on the AP test is considered the equivalent of passing a >>>> college course on the subject I suppose we could consider this a >>>> possible >>>> reading list for an Intro Am. Lit class. The list is below: >>>> >>>> If you have the time and inclination, I'd love to read your >>>> responses. >>>> >>>> If you teach this course, I'd be curious to see your reading >>>> list. Jack >>>> would too. >>>> >>>> We know what we think, but I don't want to bias your responses. >>>> >>>> Adventures of Huckleberry Finn >>>> The Awakening >>>> Catcher in the Rye >>>> The Crucible >>>> The Great Gatsby >>>> In Our Time >>>> Intrepreter of Maladies >>>> Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglas >>>> Passing >>>> The Scarlet Letter >>>> Their Eyes Were Watching >>>> >>>> Charlie >>>> > > George Satisfied with his undergarments. --------------------------------- Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 04:30:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Audrey Berry Subject: Re: Invitation to participate Comments: To: jfk@poetinresidence.com In-Reply-To: <002f01c7d816$a2b5ebe0$0301a8c0@DJ9LXH1S> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Mairead, Other than your book(s) in plain sight, there were no hidden poems. I've been had! I was a foolish woman checking between and behind all the B's. Did someone steal your hidden gift to the curious? I did check through your book..read a few, nice bright yellow cover.. congrats on that! Audrey --- Jayne Fenton Keane wrote: > Forensic > > Notes from the scene of the crime. First clue, > poetry. Think outside the > page... > > To kick start some dastardly acts of poetry, > National Poetry Week invites > poets to hide their poems in public spaces and to > submit clues to the > Director for publication on the National Poetry Week > website. You can then > launch your poetry campaign to see if anyone can > find your poems. > > Best way to submit is to send to > jfk@nationalpoetryweek.com with the word > 'submission' in the subject line. > Submit in the following format. > > Example > > Poem: Emergency > Poet: Jayne Fenton Keane > Clue: It is hidden in the grass behind a tanned > person wearing a red and > yellow hat between Surfers Paradise and Magic > Mountain. > > Enjoy! > > Jayne Fenton Keane > Director National Poetry Week > www.nationalpoetryweek.com > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 00:03:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: AP American Lit--what's you take on this re ading list? In-Reply-To: <20070809214556.01e694b4@mail.fps.k12.me.us> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit thank you for this quotation. how about steinbeck? war novels? On 8/9/07 5:45 PM, "Mark Melnicove" wrote: > "Who knows but if men constructed their dwellings with their own hands, and > provided for themselves and families simply and honestly enough, the poetic > faculty would be universally developed, as birds universally sing when they > are so engaged?" > --Thoreau, WALDEN > _____ > > On Wed, 8 Aug 2007, Charlie Rossiter wrote: > >> Ok, my literarily-informed friends, my son, Jack, will be a high school >> jr this year taking AP American Lit. Given that doing well enough in the >> course and on the AP test is considered the equivalent of passing a >> college course on the subject I suppose we could consider this a possible >> reading list for an Intro Am. Lit class. The list is below: >> >> If you have the time and inclination, I'd love to read your responses. >> >> If you teach this course, I'd be curious to see your reading list. Jack >> would too. >> >> We know what we think, but I don't want to bias your responses. >> >> Adventures of Huckleberry Finn >> The Awakening >> Catcher in the Rye >> The Crucible >> The Great Gatsby >> In Our Time >> Intrepreter of Maladies >> Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglas >> Passing >> The Scarlet Letter >> Their Eyes Were Watching >> >> Charlie >> > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 01:52:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: away, away, away from the sun MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed away, away, away from the sun away, away, away from the sun as if it were something of the light to shun the light, as if the light were something beyond what weather might cause it to bring further darkness, emanating rays disappearing against the length and breadth of days it was old kant who said beware of such phenomena that broil up against the space of noumena or rather there might be that arc of aristotle just before it decays into so much silly prattle so what are these rays but longing for the dark light fleeing light, the world turned stark and raving, mad and luminous, at a loss for light along the highways of the mind, the byways of delight http://www.asondheim.org/lightfleeing.jpg ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 05:32:28 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ann Bogle Subject: Re: Blogs and comment sections MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A week or so ago, I posted to WOMPO re: blogging practice & (gasp) theory and got only one reply backchannel. I had tried to find a blogging list but not found one, except one pertaining to academics & teaching. This discussion about blogging & comments boxes is interesting. I rarely think of comments boxes; I should. A few people posting here said blogs are not books; they are private parlors; they are repartee not writing. My blog really is more like a book in progress, that readers can watch in its accretion if they desire. I love the form of it. My parlor is my talking in my house -- who would hear it? In the house, I give talks on personal life & on books I have read, on figures. I do architectural dances. At the blog, there are rarely comments. My visitors or readers, so many of them from overseas, or writers I know (?) just sail over. I myself have placed a comment or few. I used to write in my books: this is the spot that impresses me about life; I was not very "pencil," more "pen," but it was my copy. As a blog-goer, I get embarrassed later when I have soapboxed in comments. It does go into the long onion life of the internet, doesn't it? The thing to write as a comment is "brilliant." I read a brilliant entry at Texta called "Design Flaw," about humans and communicating. . . . (for a blogging-related comment on Sven Birkerts, see Ana Verse at _http://annbogle.blogspot.com_ (http://annbogle.blogspot.com) ) ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 05:42:27 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Grotjohn, Robert D." Subject: Re: AP American Lit--what's you take on this reading list? In-Reply-To: <30701.51754.qm@web36507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit There's not much early American Lit--Bradstreet? Wheatley? Taylor? "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God"? Taylor: O woe is me! Was ever Heart like mine? A Sty of Filth, a Trough of Washing-Swill, A Dunghill Pit, a Puddle of mere Slime, A Nest of Vipers, Hive of Hornets-stings, A Bag of Poyson, Civit-Box of Sins. Was ever Heart like mine? So bad? black? vile? Is any Divell blacker? How much fun is that? Anyone who wants to take a practice test, can give it a try: For “English Literature” (more accurately literature in English) http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/ap/english_lit/samp.html?englit for multiple choice (starts on page 49) http://www.collegeboard.com/prod_downloads/ap/students/english/ap-english-0607.pdf For “English Language” (a “composition” rather than a “literature” course/exam) http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/ap/english_lang/samp.html?englang for multiple choice (starts on page 12) http://www.collegeboard.com/prod_downloads/ap/students/english/ap-english-0607.pdf Bob Grotjohn ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 16:47:14 +0700 Reply-To: Paul Hardacre Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Paul Hardacre Organization: papertiger media Subject: Re: "Where the waters meet at the end of the world" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It's been some time since we've given you an update about the papertiger: new world poetry #07 CDROM, slated for release, well, about now-ish. For issue #07 we thought we'd try something new, or at least new for us: a themed issue. Despite attracting a mountain of submissions addressing the theme of 'the end of the world', it ended up, somewhat ironically, to be the end of the world for our beloved poetry CDROM - at least for 2007. Submissions of text poems were voluminous, but not of the quality we were seeking. Multimedia works were few and far between, numbering only a handful - and this despite extending our submission period. Only recently, after much anguish and careful consideration, did we decide against publishing the issue at this time. Quite simply, we'd rather pass on the issue, instead of forcing out a CDROM that we really felt would undermine all that we've worked to achieve over the past seven-and-a-bit years. We thank you for your submission and support; apologise for the delayed response, and for any inconvenience it may have caused you. Please note that this is not the final end of papertiger: new world poetry - not by any means. We're currently licking our wounds, but we'll be back! In the meantime, you may like to consider submitting poems to our ezine, hutt -www.papertigermedia.com/hutt/. Once again, thanks for your support. The Editors. papertiger media www.papertigermedia.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Sondheim" To: Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 3:25 AM Subject: "Where the waters meet at the end of the world" > "Where the waters meet at the end of the world" > > http://www.asondheim.org/drowned2.mp4 > http://www.asondheim.org/offthere.jpg > > Where the waters meet at the end of the world > bodies merge in streams; arms and legs unfurled > in death or signifiers streamed and long forgotten. > There is no kelp among the drowned, no seed rotten > and uncalled for. When my friends swim, they die > allegiance emptied of their final cry > when all is drowned and doomed. Waters shear waters, > some sign, untoward, approaches, slaughters > our pretty young women and buoyant young men. > Sightless, nothing goes further then. > Witless, nothing goes further then. > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.11/723 - Release Date: 3/15/2007 > 11:27 AM > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 05:08:19 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Audrey Berry Subject: Re: AP American Lit--what's you take on this reading list? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Although this may be true at many schools, I teach 10 weeks of Indigineous Literature and culture in 12th grade so students are exposed to it within their 4 years. I should add that I get a lot of crap for it too..from admin and other teachers. Prison Writings, Shaking the Pumpkin, environmental essays from Orion, etc. --- David-Baptiste Chirot wrote: > as usual--no sign of the First Americans!Bury My > Heart At Wounded Knee> Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 > 12:46:56 -0700> From: jfq@MYUW.NET> Subject: Re: AP > American Lit--what's you take on this reading list?> > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> > That looks > pretty similar to what I recall of my IB World > literature class in the 11th grade.> > I think it's > interesting that Passing is on there as well as > Their Eyes Were Watching God. Seems like over > representation of the Harlem Renaissance, unless > both books are intended to be part of a comparison > study. My favorite comparison of that sort is > Autobiography of an Ex-Colored Man with Black No > More, so you might suggest those to your son if he > does any independent study or takes a liking to > Harlem Rennaisance literature. Passing also strikes > me as a strange choice for a High School lit class > as it's a very subtle novel.> > Huck Finn and Gatsby > are pretty standard fair at this point, although I > very strongly believe that young readers of Gatsby > should be told that they should read the book again > in their twenties to see if the book is markedly > different from their memory.> > Also Scarlet Letter > and the Crucible seem to be over burdening the poor > new england colonists with excessive disapproving > hindsight.> > I also think Interpreter of Maladies > is an odd contemporary choice and have visions of > really horrible test questions about "asian american > experience."> > My girlfriend loves that book > though.> > On Wed, 8 Aug 2007, Charlie Rossiter > wrote:> > > Ok, my literarily-informed friends, my > son, Jack, will be a high school> > jr this year > taking AP American Lit. Given that doing well > enough in the> > course and on the AP test is > considered the equivalent of passing a> > college > course on the subject I suppose we could consider > this a possible> > reading list for an Intro Am. Lit > class. The list is below:> >> > If you have the > time and inclination, I'd love to read your > responses.> >> > If you teach this course, I'd be > curious to see your reading list. Jack> > would > too.> >> > We know what we think, but I don't want > to bias your responses.> >> > Adventures of > Huckleberry Finn> > The Awakening> > Catcher in the > Rye> > The Crucible> > The Great Gatsby> > In Our > Time> > Intrepreter of Maladies> > Narrative of the > Life of Frederick Douglas> > Passing> > The Scarlet > Letter> > Their Eyes Were Watching> >> > Charlie> > > _________________________________________________________________ > Recharge--play some free games. Win cool prizes too! > http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_wlmailtextlink ____________________________________________________________________________________Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 05:12:22 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Audrey Berry Subject: Re: AP American Lit--what's you take on this reading list? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Great books for high school, except neither are American. --- Jason Quackenbush wrote: > for me it was A Clockwork Orange and Chronicle of a > Death Foretold. I read them both my Junior Year and > came away mindblown > > On Thu, 9 Aug 2007, Ruth Lepson wrote: > > > and Invisible Man. > > > > > > On 8/9/07 10:28 AM, "mIEKAL aND" > wrote: > > > >> Not sure what AP refers to, but the book that > turned me around the > >> most in high school lit was Autobiography of > Malcolm X. But its been > >> so long since I've read it, not sure it would > make it thru the > >> censorship radar that Crag speaks of. > >> > >> ~mIEKAL > >> > >> > >> On Aug 9, 2007, at 8:51 AM, Maria Damon wrote: > >> > >>> what, no moby dick? no billy budd even? what's > happened to > >>> melville???? > >>> > >>> Charlie Rossiter wrote: > >>>> Ok, my literarily-informed friends, my son, > Jack, will be a high > >>>> school > >>>> jr this year taking AP American Lit. Given > that doing well enough > >>>> in the > >>>> course and on the AP test is considered the > equivalent of passing a > >>>> college course on the subject I suppose we > could consider this a > >>>> possible > >>>> reading list for an Intro Am. Lit class. The > list is below: > >>>> > >>>> If you have the time and inclination, I'd love > to read your > >>>> responses. > >>>> > >>>> If you teach this course, I'd be curious to see > your reading > >>>> list. Jack > >>>> would too. > >>>> > >>>> We know what we think, but I don't want to bias > your responses. > >>>> > >>>> Adventures of Huckleberry Finn > >>>> The Awakening > >>>> Catcher in the Rye > >>>> The Crucible > >>>> The Great Gatsby > >>>> In Our Time > >>>> Intrepreter of Maladies > >>>> Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglas > >>>> Passing > >>>> The Scarlet Letter > >>>> Their Eyes Were Watching > >>>> > >>>> Charlie > >>>> > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool. http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 06:51:20 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Factory School Subject: paging Mark Lamoureux MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Does anyone have Mark Lamoureux's cell phone number? If so, please send it to me directly backchannel, or have him contact me... Thanks. kuszai@factoryschool.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 08:18:39 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: AP American Lit--what's you take on this reading list? In-Reply-To: <20070809184002.91C0313F28@ws5-9.us4.outblaze.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit not american. Christophe Casamassima wrote: > You forgot Ulysses. I read it in my mother's womb. > > > > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Charlie Rossiter" >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: AP American Lit--what's you take on this reading list? >> Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 11:43:22 -0500 >> >> >> Ok, my literarily-informed friends, my son, Jack, will be a high school >> jr this year taking AP American Lit. Given that doing well enough in the >> course and on the AP test is considered the equivalent of passing a >> college course on the subject I suppose we could consider this a possible >> reading list for an Intro Am. Lit class. The list is below: >> >> If you have the time and inclination, I'd love to read your responses. >> >> If you teach this course, I'd be curious to see your reading list. Jack >> would too. >> >> We know what we think, but I don't want to bias your responses. >> >> Adventures of Huckleberry Finn >> The Awakening >> Catcher in the Rye >> The Crucible >> The Great Gatsby >> In Our Time >> Intrepreter of Maladies >> Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglas >> Passing >> The Scarlet Letter >> Their Eyes Were Watching >> >> Charlie >> > > > > > = > One Jaco Luxury Condo Resort > Affordable luxury at our 10-story condominium resort in the heart of Jaco, with convention center, huge pools and entertainment areas. Penthouses available, plus one/two bedrooms. > http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick?redirectid=537125b2c603102f405ef75415d9cfaf > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 08:37:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: AP American Lit--what's you take on this reading list? In-Reply-To: <30701.51754.qm@web36507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit geez, i can't believe you've got me thinking abt my english AP test...from 1972! i wrote about andre gide. not an english book. but i got a 5 too (can't believe i remember this) but ended up going to hampshire college where it didn't make any difference. oh, no, wait a minute, that was for my french AP. i've forgotten the english one...but then i learned that my dad, back in the 1930s, wrote about Pierre Louÿs for his AP or equivalent thingie. so he had guts. what next, are we going to compare SAT scores? Hugh Behm-Steinberg wrote: > I agree with George. The trick to doing well on the test, at least the essay portion, is to pick one book and know it really, really well. Canonical helps, but I picked Hesse's Siddhartha and scored a five, despite misspelling Hesse throughout my essay. That, plus getting lots of practice in how to analyze bits and pieces of text, being able to accomplish weird tasks like matching random paragraphs to their corresponding literary periods, and otherwise having a broad knowledge of American lit -- whatever's in Norton's. The contemporary is fun but it won't be on the test. > > Hugh Behm-Steinberg > > George Bowering wrote: Oh Boy, this is going to be another of those endless lists > with book titles further and further from the conventional. > > > > On Aug 9, 2007, at 9:54 AM, Ruth Lepson wrote: > > >> and Invisible Man. >> >> >> On 8/9/07 10:28 AM, "mIEKAL aND" >> > wrote: > >>> Not sure what AP refers to, but the book that turned me around the >>> most in high school lit was Autobiography of Malcolm X. But its been >>> so long since I've read it, not sure it would make it thru the >>> censorship radar that Crag speaks of. >>> >>> ~mIEKAL >>> >>> >>> On Aug 9, 2007, at 8:51 AM, Maria Damon wrote: >>> >>> >>>> what, no moby dick? no billy budd even? what's happened to >>>> melville???? >>>> >>>> Charlie Rossiter wrote: >>>> >>>>> Ok, my literarily-informed friends, my son, Jack, will be a high >>>>> school >>>>> jr this year taking AP American Lit. Given that doing well enough >>>>> in the >>>>> course and on the AP test is considered the equivalent of passing a >>>>> college course on the subject I suppose we could consider this a >>>>> possible >>>>> reading list for an Intro Am. Lit class. The list is below: >>>>> >>>>> If you have the time and inclination, I'd love to read your >>>>> responses. >>>>> >>>>> If you teach this course, I'd be curious to see your reading >>>>> list. Jack >>>>> would too. >>>>> >>>>> We know what we think, but I don't want to bias your responses. >>>>> >>>>> Adventures of Huckleberry Finn >>>>> The Awakening >>>>> Catcher in the Rye >>>>> The Crucible >>>>> The Great Gatsby >>>>> In Our Time >>>>> Intrepreter of Maladies >>>>> Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglas >>>>> Passing >>>>> The Scarlet Letter >>>>> Their Eyes Were Watching >>>>> >>>>> Charlie >>>>> >>>>> >> > George > Satisfied with his undergarments. > > > > --------------------------------- > Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 07:19:32 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: wil Hallgren Subject: Re: AP American Lit--what's you take on this reading list? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The AP is in essence a foundations course so the first list seems, with the= exception of the omission of poetry and short stories, a solid foundation.= =0A=0ABut this post raises an interesting side issue: Is American Lit Natio= nalist or Western Hemispheric? Machado De Asis and Juan Rulfo fit nicely w= ith the gothic strain in US Lit.=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom= : Audrey Berry =0ATo: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=0AS= ent: Friday, August 10, 2007 8:12:22 AM=0ASubject: Re: AP American Lit--wha= t's you take on this reading list?=0A=0A=0AGreat books for high school, exc= ept neither are=0AAmerican. =0A--- Jason Quackenbush wrote:= =0A=0A> for me it was A Clockwork Orange and Chronicle of a=0A> Death Foret= old. I read them both my Junior Year and=0A> came away mindblown=0A> =0A> O= n Thu, 9 Aug 2007, Ruth Lepson wrote:=0A> =0A> > and Invisible Man.=0A> >= =0A> >=0A> > On 8/9/07 10:28 AM, "mIEKAL aND" =0A> wrote:=0A> = >=0A> >> Not sure what AP refers to, but the book that=0A> turned me around= the=0A> >> most in high school lit was Autobiography of=0A> Malcolm X. Bu= t its been=0A> >> so long since I've read it, not sure it would=0A> make it= thru the=0A> >> censorship radar that Crag speaks of.=0A> >>=0A> >> ~mIEKA= L=0A> >>=0A> >>=0A> >> On Aug 9, 2007, at 8:51 AM, Maria Damon wrote:=0A> >= >=0A> >>> what, no moby dick? no billy budd even? what's=0A> happened to=0A= > >>> melville????=0A> >>>=0A> >>> Charlie Rossiter wrote:=0A> >>>> Ok, my = literarily-informed friends, my son,=0A> Jack, will be a high=0A> >>>> sch= ool=0A> >>>> jr this year taking AP American Lit. Given=0A> that doing wel= l enough=0A> >>>> in the=0A> >>>> course and on the AP test is considered t= he=0A> equivalent of passing a=0A> >>>> college course on the subject I sup= pose we=0A> could consider this a=0A> >>>> possible=0A> >>>> reading list f= or an Intro Am. Lit class. The=0A> list is below:=0A> >>>>=0A> >>>> If you= have the time and inclination, I'd love=0A> to read your=0A> >>>> response= s.=0A> >>>>=0A> >>>> If you teach this course, I'd be curious to see=0A> yo= ur reading=0A> >>>> list. Jack=0A> >>>> would too.=0A> >>>>=0A> >>>> We kn= ow what we think, but I don't want to bias=0A> your responses.=0A> >>>>=0A>= >>>> Adventures of Huckleberry Finn=0A> >>>> The Awakening=0A> >>>> Catche= r in the Rye=0A> >>>> The Crucible=0A> >>>> The Great Gatsby=0A> >>>> In Ou= r Time=0A> >>>> Intrepreter of Maladies=0A> >>>> Narrative of the Life of F= rederick Douglas=0A> >>>> Passing=0A> >>>> The Scarlet Letter=0A> >>>> Thei= r Eyes Were Watching=0A> >>>>=0A> >>>> Charlie=0A> >>>>=0A> >=0A> =0A=0A=0A= =0A =0A______________________________________________________________= ______________________=0AChoose the right car based on your needs. Check o= ut Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool.=0Ahttp://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 07:21:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alexander Dickow Subject: blog "censorship" and AP lists In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Gary Sullivan wrote: "Equating an Arab-American poet deleting a few comments from his personal bl= og with "Homeland Security" is about as "intellectually suspect" as it gets= , David." You'd rather he was compared to a violently repressive Islamic regime? Give me a break. The comparisons are certainly hyperbolic -- Homeland Security, etc, etc, but remember that people respond by implicitly comparing Kent Johnson to a truly "toxic" blogstalker and...a rapist. I'm not going to discuss the relative merits of the apparently contentious personages involved: my point is that the rhetoric has clearly spun out of control. My opinion is that the Lime Tree guy, one way or the other, acted like a Real Jerk. That's the real issue, as far as I'm concerned, and not differing conceptions of blogs as public or private. It's about etiquette, really: the outburst against Kent was inappropriate and very rude; if there was a problem, it would have been better addressed "backchannel", off the blogwaves! If there's one thing I've learned about electronic communications in the last few years, it's never to write while angry. It only worsens matters, and one ends up making blunders like the Lime Tree guy's. About the AP list, I very much agree with Maria Damon, and lament the absence of Melville. But I also didn't understand (in every sense of the word, really) Melville at age 17, and based on discussions with others, I'm inclined to believe that's a common problem. But it depends on how you teach it, too.... Amicalement, Alex www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel désert à la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 09:26:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charlie Rossiter Subject: AP Reading List responses--Many thanks In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I get the posts delivered to me by the once-daily method so I just this (Friday) morning had the pleasure of reading your responses re: the reading list, AP tests, Am Lit etc. Thanks so much and also thanks to the folks who wrote me directly off-list. Most astonishing thing I learned--people sometimes teach a course called American literature and omit poetry. Specific book recommendations were interesting and appreciated. Other common omissions seem to be Native Americans (I'd give them something by Alexie) and I don't see anything like new journalism/gonzo journalism mentioned...Fear and loathing of some sort would probably be good. The main thought that arose in my mind when I first thought about the list is: what exactly should this course take as its focus? Should it be "important" works of American Lit? Should it be "culture-defining" works of American Lit? Should it be "genre advancing" works of American Lit? Should it be works by Americans that are distinctly different from the work of authors who are NOT American? Should it be "history" of American lit? Those questions interest me and no doubt interest many of you but I suppose they are irrelevant within the formal structure of Advance Placement courses and tests Anyway, thanks again. Charlie P.S. This is written with apologies to Canadian friends for the conventional terminology--of course it's really U.S. Lit. we're talking about, we're just not precise enough in that regard with our language usage down here. If it were really American Lit I'd have everyone read a little Margaret Atwood and Alden Nolan. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 09:25:53 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: Blogs and comment sections In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline 1) a) I am reminded of a time, a very long time ago, when for whatever reason, a friend of mine, a poet, a librarian, a web developer, found that he had an ideosyncratic collection of wet wipes (seeing this on his site I sent him some I had collected in casinos in vegas -- that money is dirty!), and made a web site. he then had an increasingly venomous and competitive correspondance with a wet wipe collector who took his own collection and web site very seriously. as this became a time suck, my friend deleted his site. b) this is related to the pattern which led Kent and Henry and a few others to be ejected from this listserv (and others) 2) a lot of poets I know have had occasion to delete their blogs and sites or portions thereof; employers have started searching them, for example. I myself have been asked to delete certain of my posts and certain comments from my blog, even last night. I comply, as I do when people complain about me writing about subjects they revere or idealize so much they cannot broach. A lot of people would rather be correct or silent. And they would prefer that other people stop being outspoken and wrong. -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly@gmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 13:01:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Re: Blogs and comment sections Comments: To: "UB Poetics discussion group "@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU, Catherine Daly In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Catherine and all, I've actually gotten multiple calls from the same creditor that basically went like this: "How can't you pay this debt, you own your own business." "What are you talking about," I asked them. "Boog City. You put out a newspaper, you put on all these events. Here's one with Kurt Cobain." "I don't make any money from any of it." "What are you talking about, that doesn't make sense." "Well, I can introduce you to hundreds of other people who are doing the same thing." "You have all these websites, who put them up, who's doing the upkeep?" "They're called blogs, and if you give me five minutes I can teach you how to put your own up." "How about I teach you how to pay your debt?" -end scene- On 8/10/07 12:25 PM, "Catherine Daly" wrote: > 2) a lot of poets I know have had occasion to delete their blogs and sites > or portions thereof; employers have started searching them, for example. I > myself have been asked to delete certain of my posts and certain comments > from my blog, even last night. I comply, as I do when people complain > about me writing about subjects they revere or idealize so much they cannot > broach. A lot of people would rather be correct or silent. And they would > prefer that other people stop being outspoken and wrong. -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://welcometoboogcity.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 13:26:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: Etiquette MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alex: Nada did not imply that Kent was "toxic" nor "a rapist," not that you= 're interested in airing any "facts" here.=20 =20 On what factual basis, for instance, do you tell 1,000+ people on the Poeti= cs List that Kasey Mohammad is a "Real Jerk"?=20 =20 If the pressing issue here is "about etiquette, really," then why are you g= uys all angrily broadcasting these embarrasing displays of barely concealed= rage on the Poetics List as though you were reporting sort of congressiona= l scandal?=20 =20 =20 _________________________________________________________________ Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more=85.then map the best rout= e! http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=3D2&ss=3Dyp.bars~yp.pizza~yp.movie%20th= eater&cp=3D42.358996~-71.056691&style=3Dr&lvl=3D13&tilt=3D-90&dir=3D0&alt= =3D-1000&scene=3D950607&encType=3D1&FORM=3DMGAC01= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 13:38:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: AP Reading List responses--Many thanks In-Reply-To: <2838.76.198.203.202.1186756019.squirrel@www.poetrypoetry.org> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit if poetry, more women, interestingly--dickinson, stein, HD, rich, rukeyser, levertov, some contemporaries like LangPo, jorie g. etc. the idea of context shd always be taught, in my opinion, & what is considering great in various contexts & why, & how lit points to that context & what it does with it. On 8/10/07 10:26 AM, "Charlie Rossiter" wrote: > I get the posts delivered to me by the once-daily method so I just this > (Friday) morning had the pleasure of reading your responses re: the > reading list, AP tests, Am Lit etc. Thanks so much and also thanks to > the folks who wrote me directly off-list. > > Most astonishing thing I learned--people sometimes teach a course called > American literature and omit poetry. > > Specific book recommendations were interesting and appreciated. > > Other common omissions seem to be Native Americans (I'd give them > something by Alexie) and I don't see anything like new journalism/gonzo > journalism mentioned...Fear and loathing of some sort would probably be > good. > > The main thought that arose in my mind when I first thought about the list > is: what exactly should this course take as its focus? > > Should it be "important" works of American Lit? > > Should it be "culture-defining" works of American Lit? > > Should it be "genre advancing" works of American Lit? > > Should it be works by Americans that are distinctly different from the > work of authors who are NOT American? > > Should it be "history" of American lit? > > Those questions interest me and no doubt interest many of you but I > suppose they are irrelevant within the formal structure of Advance > Placement courses and tests > > Anyway, thanks again. > > Charlie > > P.S. > This is written with apologies to Canadian friends for the conventional > terminology--of course it's really U.S. Lit. we're talking about, we're > just not precise enough in that regard with our language usage down here. > If it were really American Lit I'd have everyone read a little Margaret > Atwood and Alden Nolan. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 12:27:37 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alexander Dickow Subject: mea culpa In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit All, I was just very reasonably taken to task by a member of the list regarding my previous post, for which I feel somewhat embarrassed, so I'd like to set the record straight, especially in regard to Kasey Mohammed, with whom I'm not personally acquainted: consequently, I intended to judge his behavior in this particular instance, and not the character of the man himself. I offer him my apologies for the inappropriate vitriol, and to the list as well, for my excessive rhetoric! Sheepish and tout contrit, Alex www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel désert à la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 14:23:39 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dale Smith Subject: New at Possum Ego: Poetry and Public; Flarf & Ponzi Schemes; & More Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Possum Ego resumes irregular publications with: Poetry and Public Notes on Brian Mornar's Repatterning World Oil and U. S. Stocks Flarf as Ponzi Scheme? For more, go to: http://possumego.blogspot.com/ -- Dale Smith La Revolution Opossum! www.skankypossum.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 03:42:10 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christophe Casamassima Subject: Oh MY!!! Re: AP American Lit--what's you take on this reading list? Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 George, are you saying that Ulysses is an "Irish" book? I beg to differ. Joyce was = an American acting as an Irishman when the shit hit the Sin Fein. Joyce's r= eal name (which no one but my family knows) was Bob Silverberg, a New Yorke= r who had a very influential steel business, and he wrote a book called "Wh= en Atlas Shrugged", but had to change all the names, dates and action to fi= t the Irish attitude he adopted when he became embroiled with the pre-IRA d= eal. This would be a great AP course - I learned these facts from my father= , Carmine Casamassima, who taught AP American Literature in Bari, Italy. He= was also from China. Christophe Casamassima > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "George Bowering" > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: AP American Lit--what's you take on this reading list? > Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 12:27:44 -0700 >=20 >=20 > This might come as a surprise, > but that's not a US book. >=20 >=20 > On Aug 9, 2007, at 11:40 AM, Christophe Casamassima wrote: >=20 > > You forgot Ulysses. I read it in my mother's womb. > > > > > > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Charlie Rossiter" > >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >> Subject: AP American Lit--what's you take on this reading list? > >> Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 11:43:22 -0500 > >> > >> > >> Ok, my literarily-informed friends, my son, Jack, will be a high sch= ool > >> jr this year taking AP American Lit. Given that doing well enough in = the > >> course and on the AP test is considered the equivalent of passing a > >> college course on the subject I suppose we could consider this a poss= ible > >> reading list for an Intro Am. Lit class. The list is below: > >> > >> If you have the time and inclination, I'd love to read your responses. > >> > >> If you teach this course, I'd be curious to see your reading list. J= ack > >> would too. > >> > >> We know what we think, but I don't want to bias your responses. > >> > >> Adventures of Huckleberry Finn > >> The Awakening > >> Catcher in the Rye > >> The Crucible > >> The Great Gatsby > >> In Our Time > >> Intrepreter of Maladies > >> Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglas > >> Passing > >> The Scarlet Letter > >> Their Eyes Were Watching > >> > >> Charlie > > > >> > > > > > > =3D > > One Jaco Luxury Condo Resort > > Affordable luxury at our 10-story condominium resort in the heart=20 > > of Jaco, with convention center, huge pools and entertainment=20 > > areas. Penthouses available, plus one/two bedrooms. > > http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick?=20 > > redirectid=3D537125b2c603102f405ef75415d9cfaf > > > > > > -- Powered By Outblaze > > > > > George Harvey Bowering > More than meets the eye. > =3D Self Publish Your Book in 30 Days Custom publishing plans, sales & marketing support. Free Author Guide. http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick?redirectid=3D7815482a704b2308f5c11= 476f575138b --=20 Powered By Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 13:06:29 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: AP American Lit--what's you take on this reading list? In-Reply-To: <379741.37422.qm@web84209.mail.re3.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On Aug 10, 2007, at 7:19 AM, wil Hallgren wrote: > The AP is in essence a foundations course so the first list seems, > with the exception of the omission of poetry and short stories, a > solid foundation. > My wife Jean Baird is working on a project that concerns Canadian literature in Canadian highschools. She is interested in this exchange, and has some questions. Could someone tell us what a "foundations course" is? > Geo. H. Bowering Patient and tolerant driver. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 00:28:57 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cralan kelder Subject: so many things to look at on the internet In-Reply-To: <791cb2e9ab81db4537e72ac99dae5627@sfu.ca> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable an artist named abner preis, apparently an american living here in amsterdam, sent out a link for an exhibition he=B9s participating in. I=B9ve no= t met Abner, and clicked through, clicked around, and found some interesting commentary on war mongering =AD childishly scrawled letters with compellingly coloured childrens drawing of jackboots and m16=B9s in iraq (i think). here are a few of the verses; Dear Becky,=20 People are so poor here. I can't wait to come home and build a house for our family. Love,=20 eat, shit, smile PS. What kind of Dog will we have? You should see it at night Becky! the sky is so beautiful so nice, you never saw anything like it. I miss you cpt. eat shit smile PS How's the baby? can she say daddy? Hummm...=20 http://www.flickr.com/photos/20642144@N00/page2/ anyway, i find this type of social commentary interesting =AD a reminder, constantly necessary, that it=B9s not normal to kill people in other countries, on the contrary. I was living in america when they started invading countries about 5 years ago and ended up leaving, found it all so disheartening. Feel kind of cowardice about it, actually, just leaving. Anyway, this sort of art is strangely heartening. big best from amsterdam ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 15:36:49 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Oh MY!!! Re: AP American Lit--what's you take on this reading list? In-Reply-To: <20070810194210.A09EE13F28@ws5-9.us4.outblaze.com> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Aha. You think I don't know all that stuff? When I was a kid in school the Martino boys' parents were from Bari. In 1985 I drove through the outskirts of Bari. They weren't much. And I have read Henry James, eh? On Aug 10, 2007, at 12:42 PM, Christophe Casamassima wrote: > George, > > are you saying that Ulysses is an "Irish" book? I beg to differ. Joyce > was an American acting as an Irishman when the shit hit the Sin Fein. > Joyce's real name (which no one but my family knows) was Bob > Silverberg, a New Yorker who had a very influential steel business, > and he wrote a book called "When Atlas Shrugged", but had to change > all the names, dates and action to fit the Irish attitude he adopted > when he became embroiled with the pre-IRA deal. This would be a great > AP course - I learned these facts from my father, Carmine Casamassima, > who taught AP American Literature in Bari, Italy. He was also from > China. > > Christophe Casamassima > > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "George Bowering" >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: Re: AP American Lit--what's you take on this reading list? >> Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 12:27:44 -0700 >> >> >> This might come as a surprise, >> but that's not a US book. >> >> >> On Aug 9, 2007, at 11:40 AM, Christophe Casamassima wrote: >> >>> You forgot Ulysses. I read it in my mother's womb. >>> >>> >>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Charlie Rossiter" >>>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>>> Subject: AP American Lit--what's you take on this reading list? >>>> Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 11:43:22 -0500 >>>> >>>> >>>> Ok, my literarily-informed friends, my son, Jack, will be a high >>>> school >>>> jr this year taking AP American Lit. Given that doing well enough >>>> in the >>>> course and on the AP test is considered the equivalent of passing a >>>> college course on the subject I suppose we could consider this a >>>> possible >>>> reading list for an Intro Am. Lit class. The list is below: >>>> >>>> If you have the time and inclination, I'd love to read your >>>> responses. >>>> >>>> If you teach this course, I'd be curious to see your reading list. >>>> Jack >>>> would too. >>>> >>>> We know what we think, but I don't want to bias your responses. >>>> >>>> Adventures of Huckleberry Finn >>>> The Awakening >>>> Catcher in the Rye >>>> The Crucible >>>> The Great Gatsby >>>> In Our Time >>>> Intrepreter of Maladies >>>> Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglas >>>> Passing >>>> The Scarlet Letter >>>> Their Eyes Were Watching >>>> >>>> Charlie >>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> = >>> One Jaco Luxury Condo Resort >>> Affordable luxury at our 10-story condominium resort in the heart >>> of Jaco, with convention center, huge pools and entertainment >>> areas. Penthouses available, plus one/two bedrooms. >>> http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick? >>> redirectid=537125b2c603102f405ef75415d9cfaf >>> >>> >>> -- Powered By Outblaze >>> >>> >> George Harvey Bowering >> More than meets the eye. > >> > > > = > Self Publish Your Book in 30 Days > Custom publishing plans, sales & marketing support. Free Author Guide. > http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick? > redirectid=7815482a704b2308f5c11476f575138b > > > -- > Powered By Outblaze > > George Cletis Bowering Slow to anger. Well, slow about everything. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 16:10:55 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: AP American Lit--what's your take on this reading list? In-Reply-To: <772028.32564.qm@web51812.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > Hello, All. A few years ago my wife Jean Baird did a 90pp report for the Canada Council, the subject being the relationship between Canadian literature and high school syllabi across canada. Now she has acquired a grant for an outfit here in Vancouver, and is working on a project to improve the incidence of CanLit in our schools. (Almost every school kid in Canada reads To Kill a Mockingbird, for example, instead of a Canadian book. Jean has been studying the situation in Canada and in Australia, and has some search engines out there gathering references. So she came across this thread. She has asked me to ask you some questions about the AP American Lit course. For example: Is it a mandatory course? What grade level? It sounds as if it would be for final year of high school. Is it national, or is it tailored state by state? And does it exist in all states? Thanks. > George Bowering, ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 16:20:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Re: Blogs and comment sections In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline A very busy day--my apt mate learned his mother in Mississippi had a heart attack and had to pack in a hurry and hit the highway with a heavy heart, then there was an exciting shooting, and a bit after the ice cream truck arrived, right on schedule. The exultant cries of children mingled with the clickety clack of crack hos' heels as the impassive dope dealers' various "eyes" stayed on the lookout . . . Turning to poetics and all the talk of parlors, living rooms and etiquette, is a very welcome and soothing experience after so much turmoil. As Robert Musil writes, quoting from his own Diaries as an epigram for his little essay "Art Anniversary", : "It is easier to predict what the world will be doing a hundred years from now, than how it will write. Why? The entire answer isn't fit for a dinner table conversation." I think a problem with my letter which has caused some criticisms is due to on the one hand poor readings of it. and on the other poor writing on my part, in that what was meant to be humorous exagerration satirizing the kind of overblown rhetorics that had been already expended in this discussion at the time. If you read what I wrote carefully, it does NOT say Kasey is a Caligula, and it does NOT equate him with Homeland Security. It says that if tKasey's blog can be changed any time on a whim, a hypothetical reader might fancy the blog owner as a Caligula, wiping out all sorts of things with the wave of the delete button finger. The basic idea is that a reader might be frightened from venturing a comment, if they think at any moment it may vanish. The Homeland Security reference is that the mentality the society has these days of having to control at any cost borders etc seems to be so pervasive as to be found among poets' blogs. I think if you read carefully you will see I do not say Kasey=Caligula nor that he equals Homeland Security. I'm making use of exagerrated imagery in both cases to show how the imagination may be carried away by the instances of what is happening. That I didn't succeed very well means I have to do a lot of work with making the lines clearer between humor and what is misread as "fact" or as my intentions.. Mr Sullivan writes very self-righteously about etiquette and "getting facts straight"--yet he didn't read my words very carefully and also as for etiquette I am surprised no one has found his race-baiting comments anything but deeply offensive. Are people cowed by his tone and so let it go by? Apparently. Or perhaps it is etiquette not to say anything, who knows. "Not good form, you know." At any rate, the Leader for the Quest in Righteousness and Rightness of Facts did not check his. I'm a mixed Caucasian-Ojibwe Indian and my first wife is a Mohawk. I have one of the only blogs there is from the USA which has presented cultural works from Palestine, Lebanon, Iran including grafitti and stencils and support the End the Occupation movement, Jewish Voices for Peace and other organizations' events and communiques, alongside visual poetry, poetry, art works from around the world, and an over year long series of works to do with (illegal) Walls, including the Israeli, the American one in Baghdad and the American one with Mexico, in many different ways. There are continual announcements of events, exhibtions, Calls, conferences, performances and images, music, poetry from around the world, in English, Spanish, Portuguese and French primarily. Free Jazz clips and the Francophone Gene Vincent Society are there, the visual/poetry collabs of Kenward Elmslie & Joe Brainard, Bern Porter & Takahashi Shinkichi on Hiroshima etc etc The Disappeareds show from the El Museo de la Barrio in NYC, the works of Clemente Padin, Roberto Bolano, with many clips----and lot of Mail Art and Visual Poetry last year for an International Call "For Lebanon, For Palestine Human Rights Peace Liberty" curated at the blog. Lettrisme, the Urban Painting of the Congo, various forms and makers of Outsider Art, collagists, copier artists, grafitti, writings on the "art of looking" and things hidden in plain site/sight/cite. There are also many American visual poets and independent poets, some small press and journals, as well as from UK and Canada represented and much more will be. (Behind on putting things up as so much--more to do-especially with these latter.) I don't really expect anyone to know any of this as is off the beaten track from the worlds more familiar found here. However, since Mr Sullivan insists on the facts, facts, facts here, I wanted to show he checked on nothing at all before making his most unetiquettely race-baiting remarks. I think he owes both Kasey and myself an apology. For myself, I find it important to think on these issues with the framework of the direction of the society, the State. This does NOT mean equating such and such an event or person with Homeland Security or El Diablo Bush,what it does mean is, again I speak for myself, to essay being aware of and working towards an understanding of the methods and mechanisms of what happens, how it happens, to whom it happens. The basic issue is POWER and its sidekick CONTROL--who has it, who wants it, what they do with it, and to whom do they do it to. The first Terror was not of the "terrorists", but of the State. In the writing of the Jacobins especially, the State is to be maintained by a twinned force: TERROR and PURITY. By whose standards of etiquette is it determined what and who is PURE enough to be permitted? As Robert Musil wrote: "The entire answer isn't fit for a dinner table conversation." As an Anarkeyologist, one must continue to develop awareness of that which is hidden in plain site/sight/cite----"Poetry no longer imposes itself, it exposes itself" --Paul Celan. One might say that indeed, much is exposed--and to counter this, there is always that which demands the return of the Power and the Glory of Control and its Beloved Purity, its Terror. The imposition of a poetry, THIS poetry, rather than poetry exposing itself--and being found by many, many, many-- isn't that one of the many questions here-- On 8/10/07, David A. Kirschenbaum wrote: > > Catherine and all, > > I've actually gotten multiple calls from the same creditor that basically > went like this: > > "How can't you pay this debt, you own your own business." > "What are you talking about," I asked them. > "Boog City. You put out a newspaper, you put on all these events. Here's > one > with Kurt Cobain." > "I don't make any money from any of it." > "What are you talking about, that doesn't make sense." > "Well, I can introduce you to hundreds of other people who are doing the > same thing." > > "You have all these websites, who put them up, who's doing the upkeep?" > "They're called blogs, and if you give me five minutes I can teach you how > to put your own up." > "How about I teach you how to pay your debt?" > > -end scene- > > > On 8/10/07 12:25 PM, "Catherine Daly" wrote: > > > 2) a lot of poets I know have had occasion to delete their blogs and > sites > > or portions thereof; employers have started searching them, for > example. I > > myself have been asked to delete certain of my posts and certain > comments > > from my blog, even last night. I comply, as I do when people complain > > about me writing about subjects they revere or idealize so much they > cannot > > broach. A lot of people would rather be correct or silent. And they > would > > prefer that other people stop being outspoken and wrong. > > -- > David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher > Boog City > 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H > NY, NY 10001-4754 > For event and publication information: > http://welcometoboogcity.com/ > T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) > F: (212) 842-2429 > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 17:32:33 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: wil Hallgren Subject: Re: question what is a foundations course -- AP discussion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As I view = Sorry I hit the delete button instead of the reply button.=0A =0AAs I view = it a "foundations course," or survey course, is a college level, or equival= ent, course that attempts to present a broad survey of historically importa= nt and/or influential texts in such a way that the student is prepared to p= ursue further, more specialized, study in the subject area having been prov= ided with a solid foundation which will allow the student to contextualize = the more specialized topic as an aspect of the overall topic.=0A =0AFor exa= mple Huck Finn is read in a foundations course so that later exposure to te= xts such as "Beloved," "Invisible Man," "Blood Meridian," and/or "Tripmaste= r Monkey," may be discussed in a way that the will elicit concepts touching= upon whether or not there may be issues of influence by or dialog with the= earlier text. =0A=0AWil Hallgren ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 13:47:22 +1000 Reply-To: John Tranter Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Tranter Subject: The Floor of Heaven, reprint MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Giant Reprint!! The Floor of Heaven by John Tranter http://www.uqp.uq.edu.au/book_details.php?id=0975698001 ISBN 9780975698001 Pages 130 Release Date: July 1st, 2007 AUD$26.95 A real-estate shark, a Vietnam veteran who can't forget, an Australian artist fighting drugs and despair in New York... In these four interlinked tales, these vividly drawn characters and their friends, lovers and enemies reinvent themselves as they search for love against a background of passion, ambition, risk, betrayal and death. PRAISE FOR THE FLOOR OF HEAVEN "A rattling good read..." JOHN ASHBERY "The Floor of Heaven is a tour de force, a devious and profoundly subversive conjuring trick by a poet writing at the peak or his powers... the book pulses with a curious resonance... reminded me irresistibly of the best moments in Twin Peaks ... a strange lyricism." ANDREW RIEMER, Sydney Morning Herald "Stories that are elegantly linked not only by some of the characters but by images and signatures... the swish of tyres in the rain, the hint of perfume ... A hypnotic read." CARMEL BIRD, Australian Book Review ------------------------------------------ John Tranter Jacket magazine: http://jacketmagazine.com/ Homepage: http://johntranter.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 22:24:36 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Schneider Hill Subject: Recordings of Poems by Kamau Brathwaite? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks: b/channel if you know where I can find/buy Kamau Brathwaite reading "Stone" and/or "How Europe Underdeveloped Africa" (both found in World Beat, the excellently edited by Eliot Weinberger anthology of international poetry, New Directions 2006, a book I hope to adopt for a World Lit course...). I would prefer mp3 or cd formats. Leonard Schwartz' "Cross-Cultural Poetics" on PENNSound has a Brathwaite program, but I haven't listened to all of it yet... Best, Crag Hill http://scorecard.typepad.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 00:11:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Invalid RFC822 field - "=". Rest of header flushed. From: Paul Nelson Subject: Re: mea culpa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here Here! Let's get this list back to the level of appropriate vitriol!=0A= =0APaul E. Postcard Nelson, M.A. =0A=0AGlobal Voices Radio=0ASPLAB!=0AAmer= ican Sentences=0AOrganic Poetry=0APoetry Postcard Blog=0A=0ASlaughter, WA 2= 53.735.6328 or 888.735.6328=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Alexan= der Dickow =0ATo: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=0ASen= t: Friday, August 10, 2007 12:27:37 PM=0ASubject: mea culpa=0A=0AAll,=0AI w= as just very reasonably taken to task by a member=0Aof the list regarding m= y previous post, for which I=0Afeel somewhat embarrassed, so I'd like to se= t the=0Arecord straight, especially in regard to Kasey=0AMohammed, with who= m I'm not personally acquainted:=0Aconsequently, I intended to judge his be= havior in this=0Aparticular instance, and not the character of the man=0Ahi= mself. I offer him my apologies for the=0Ainappropriate vitriol, and to the= list as well, for my=0Aexcessive rhetoric!=0ASheepish and tout contrit,=0A= Alex=0A=0A=0Awww.alexdickow.net/blog/=0A =0A les mots! ah quel d=E9sert = =E0 la fin=0A merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 04:18:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Audrey Berry Subject: Re: AP Reading List responses--Many thanks In-Reply-To: <2838.76.198.203.202.1186756019.squirrel@www.poetrypoetry.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit All of those ?uestions should be addressed. What has it meant/what does it mean to be American? --- Charlie Rossiter wrote: > I get the posts delivered to me by the once-daily > method so I just this > (Friday) morning had the pleasure of reading your > responses re: the > reading list, AP tests, Am Lit etc. Thanks so much > and also thanks to > the folks who wrote me directly off-list. > > Most astonishing thing I learned--people sometimes > teach a course called > American literature and omit poetry. > > Specific book recommendations were interesting and > appreciated. > > Other common omissions seem to be Native Americans > (I'd give them > something by Alexie) and I don't see anything like > new journalism/gonzo > journalism mentioned...Fear and loathing of some > sort would probably be > good. > > The main thought that arose in my mind when I first > thought about the list > is: what exactly should this course take as its > focus? > > Should it be "important" works of American Lit? > > Should it be "culture-defining" works of American > Lit? > > Should it be "genre advancing" works of American > Lit? > > Should it be works by Americans that are distinctly > different from the > work of authors who are NOT American? > > Should it be "history" of American lit? > > Those questions interest me and no doubt interest > many of you but I > suppose they are irrelevant within the formal > structure of Advance > Placement courses and tests > > Anyway, thanks again. > > Charlie > > P.S. > This is written with apologies to Canadian friends > for the conventional > terminology--of course it's really U.S. Lit. we're > talking about, we're > just not precise enough in that regard with our > language usage down here. > If it were really American Lit I'd have everyone > read a little Margaret > Atwood and Alden Nolan. > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 07:31:57 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aryanil Mukherjee Subject: Flowchart, Need Help, Please Backchannel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If someone could help me with this, I'll be grateful. I need a small passage (a few lines) from John Ashbery's book -Flowchart about "mud" (pg. 182). Please backchannel. Graciously Aryanil ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 08:11:09 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jennifer Karmin Subject: SUBMISSIONS: Poetry & Performance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This call is for a curated section on performance that will appear in the journal How2 - http://www.asu.edu/pipercwcenter/how2journal. If you have any new work (previously unpublished) please do send it along, this includes poetry and critical writing. Contact: Elizabeth-Jane Burnett and Sophie Robinson, Royal Holloway, University of London. ejlburnett@yahoo.co.uk sophie_amelia_robinson@yahoo.co.uk Deadline: September 1st 2007. We are looking for papers, interviews, reviews and new writing that relate to issues of poetry and performance. We invite papers that focus on a range of approaches to poetry and performance, including the relationships between live art / performance and poetics and what has been termed in the UK, Performance Writing. We would like our contributors to consider some aspect of performance poetry or poetry in performance in relation to contexts of collaboration, networks and communities, and / or, its crossover into digital writing and new media. We are also particularly interested in the concept of a "poetic economy", which examines the way that gift cultures can be suggestive of possibilities for developing poetic networks. Poetry's oral tradition is finding new relevance within this type of economy and we welcome submissions that address the recent development of poetic practices that focus on the spoken word such as those supported by a range of venues including; Naropa University and the Bowery Poetry Club. We are also interested in poetry's relationship to live-art, music, sound poetry, and performance in new media. Submissions: Please send your work as a Word document with the suffix .doc to preserve formatting (not in the body of an email). The standard fonts for How2 are Georgia and Times New Roman; submissions should be in 12 pt and 1.5 or double-spaced. Please include How2 in the subject line of your email. CLEARLY LABEL each submission with your name and email address. Visuals should be submitted in any of the following formats: Jpeg (.jpg, .jpeg) TIFF (.tif, .tiff) GIF (.gif) PNG (.png) BMP (.bmp) If your submission contains graphics which are intended for printing and must be high-definition, please submit them in AT LEAST 300dpi. If they are only intended for display on screen, 72dpi will suffice, so please choose your resolution according to need. Images should be no larger than 15 x 10 cm, and must take into account file size (in kb). Please do not send us larger files without consulting us first. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 12:16:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Ciccariello Subject: Slumber last trumpets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Slumber last trumpets -- Peter Ciccariello http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 10:35:38 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve russell Subject: Re: hAS ANYONE READ PAUL AUSTER'S... In-Reply-To: <080920071940.12908.46BB6DA3000628D90000326C216037596498019C050C0E040D@att.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The Overlook Press has recently published Auster's Collected Poems. "Disappearances" is included in the collection. My favorite piece was the long prose poem "White Spaces." I'm new to Auster's poetry. He's written about other poets with considerable erudition. It was a revelation and a pleasure to read his poetry. I'm disappointed that my post didn't generate more responses. I guess very few people think of Auster as a poet, or perhaps because he's a commercial success, he isn't taken very seriously in some circles. Who knows? I loved the book. I'm glad there are other people who've read his poetry. blacksox@ATT.NET wrote: You are talking about the book 'Disappearances". I have told him this is the showcase of his talent on many occasions. He was discouraged at this book not selling. Within 10 years he had sold the screenplay for "New York Stories" and was living large. "LuLu on the Bridge" wasn't far behind that. The poems in Disappearances are concise and hard hitting. Scribe The name never left his lips: he talked himself into another body: he found his room again in Babel. It was written a flower falls from his eye and blooms in a strangers mouth. A swallow rhymes with hunger and cannot leave its egg. He invents the orpan in tatters, he will hold a small black flag riddled with winter. It is spring, and below his window he hears a hundred white stones turn to raging phlox. He had a great deal of potential. I would love to see what he might be doing now with his verse. --------------------------------- Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 12:20:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: new Sixties journal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit really i think it's a street wise drop out ha On Tue, 7 Aug 2007 10:57:14 -0700 Thomas savage writes: > I would say a public intellectual is someone who is listened to by a > wide audience beyond the institution or college in which most of > them teach. Henry Louis Gates would be a good example of one who > has a currency about him. Edward Said was another. In France, of > course the public intellectual is or was a widely honored tradition > with the likes of Sartre, DeBeauvoir, and Derrida participating far > beyond the classroom to which many of them were not even affiliated. > > George Bowering wrote: On Aug 6, 2007, at 3:44 > PM, steve d. dalachinsky wrote: > > > still no one answered me wHAT IS A PUBLIC INTELLECTUAL > > A person whose practice of the intellect is made public through > publication, > for example, in the NY Times op=ed pages, or French public radio, or > magazines whose practice it is to publish works produced by > analysis, > logic, etc. > > > > > G.H.B. > = to the task > > > > --------------------------------- > Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel > today! > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 16:13:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: Recordings of Poems by Kamau Brathwaite? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline please frontchannel, if possible. mairead Mair=C3=A9ad Byrne Associate Professor of English Rhode Island School of Design 2 College Street Providence, RI 02903 >>> schneider-hill@ADELPHIA.NET 08/11/07 1:24 AM >>> Folks: b/channel if you know where I can find/buy Kamau Brathwaite reading = "Stone" and/or "How Europe Underdeveloped Africa" (both found in World Beat, the excellently edited by Eliot Weinberger anthology of international poetry, New Directions 2006, a book I hope to adopt for a World Lit course...). I would prefer mp3 or cd formats. Leonard Schwartz' "Cross-Cultural Poetics" on PENNSound has a Brathwaite program, but I haven't listened to all of it yet... Best, Crag Hill http://scorecard.typepad.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 16:16:04 -0400 Reply-To: az421@freenet.carleton.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: new(ish) on rob's clever blog MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT new(ish) on rob's clever blog -- Margaret Avison (1918-2007) -- *dANDelion presents --- Radical Translations* -- a slate of (Ottawa) readings -- An Uncollected Andrew Suknaski poem -- ottawa international writers festival; here are upcoming August/September events: -- another weekend in old Glengarry -- poem for my sister's wedding -- Multi-Art Show OTTAWA ART BAZAAR Benefits Ottawa Art Community -- Noah Eli Gordon's A Fiddle Pulled from the Throat of a Sparrow -- The House That Jack Built: The Collected Lectures of Jack Spicer -- Ongoing notes: late July, 2007 (ryan fitzpatrick's BAD SHIT! and derek beaulieu's FLATLAND 25-35, bytheskinofmeteeth; 3 chapbooks by Leaf Press) -- above/ground press: what happens at fourteen -- Poetry Reading ® The Muses ¯ -- jwcurry doing bpNichol in Calgary -- ongoing notes (some literary magazines): early July, 2007 (PRECIPICe, Matrix, UNARMED JOURNAL) -- Tree's annual Midsummer Night -- Haas Bianchi questions, Chicago Postmodern Poetry, January 2007 -- an evening of departing Ottawa writers -- canadian small press book fairs (new blog) -- an untitled novel by Ken Sparling -- rob mclennan in Kingston (Ontario); Poetry & Company -- poem of the dominion tavern -- ongoing notes: the ottawa small press book fair (part two) (Amanda Earl; American poets Dan Waber and Jennifer Hill-Kaucher; Basement Tapes, The Onion Union, by Andrew Faulkner, Nicholas Lea and Marcus McCann; Roland Prevost; Gerry Gilbert's BC MONTHLY) -- Arc poetry magazine: 13 dead poets you should know but don't -- A poem on Riley Tench by Richard Harrison -- jwcurry & Richmond Landing: The Martyrology Books 4 and 5 -- Why Are You So Sad? Selected Poems of David W. McFadden -- Peter Gizzi's The Outernationale -- The Winnipeg Connection: Writing Lives at Mid-Century, edited by Birk Sproxton & Language Acts: Anglo-Qubec Poetry, 1976 to the 21st Century, edited by Jason Camlot and Todd Swift -- Souvankham Thammavongsa's Found -- the ghosts of geography: de Leeuw & Dragland & writing my eventual non-fictions -- ongoing notes: the ottawa small press book fair (part one) (George Bowering, Pooka Press; Stuart Ross) -- rob's Alberta year www.robmclennan.blogspot.com + some other new things at the alberta, writing blog www.albertawriting.blogspot.com + some other new things at ottawa poetry newsletter, www.ottawapoetry.blogspot.com + some other other new things at the Chaudiere Books blog, www.chaudierebooks.blogspot.com -- poet/editor/publisher ...STANZAS mag, above/ground press & Chaudiere Books (www.chaudierebooks.com) ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...13th poetry coll'n - The Ottawa City Project .... c/o 858 Somerset St W, Ottawa ON K1R 6R7 * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 18:38:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Recordings of Poems by Kamau Brathwaite? In-Reply-To: <00f501c7dbd7$e919eb30$6401a8c0@deliav0obz90o6> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit crag--if you backchannel me I will give you eliot's email--maybe he knows. On 8/11/07 1:24 AM, "Schneider Hill" wrote: > Folks: > > b/channel if you know where I can find/buy Kamau Brathwaite reading "Stone" > and/or "How Europe Underdeveloped Africa" (both found in World Beat, the > excellently edited by Eliot Weinberger anthology of international poetry, > New Directions 2006, a book I hope to adopt for a World Lit course...). I > would prefer mp3 or cd formats. Leonard Schwartz' "Cross-Cultural Poetics" > on PENNSound has a Brathwaite program, but I haven't listened to all of it > yet... > > Best, Crag Hill > > http://scorecard.typepad.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 20:28:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: that's really interesting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed that's really interesting it's always a wonder, what's really interesting, and whether interest, in- terest-in, is a reasonable category of philosophical discourse. philosoph- ical writing often appears scholastic, dry, abstract; it seems to contain the semblance of power, that is argument for production's sake, production for motive's sake, motives for lifeworld's sake. the latter is crucial - that one inhabits one's work, replies, missions, admissions - exists with- in the life of worlds, structures accordingly. but is that of interest elsewhere, and what constitutes interest - there are two ways to think of 'having an interest in' - one, fascination with discourse on a particular subject - two, an interest in the sense of economic or other interest ab- stractly controlled by a steering mechanism, habitus of power, and so forth. i have a conversation recorded w/ david antin perhaps 30 years ago we were discussing astrology and about what was of interest and what was not and what sort of steering mechanisms or correlations there were and how they connected to the universe and i remember beyond or before the tape david saying that even if astrology were true it's not of much inter- est and i could only agree since personality and mute matter correlations mean relatively little and prove nothing in the long run, at first i was going to quote from the tape we made but then this particular section of interest was elsewhere, outside the thing itself so to speak. {} truth is never interesting; if truth were interesting then it would not be the flat greyness of existence. then it would be corrupted into landscape, furn- ished with ridges, serrated edges, graspable, something fallen into lang- uage - i have often said nothing could be farther from the truth. then and there interesting philosophy embraces evil, abjection, obscenity; it rides these, dis/comforts these, dis-inhabits the abstract, something's at stake - what remains elsewhere is physics, let's hear and see it for physics. "find the david antin text and what david antin says about things being interesting also try to talk about the notion of truth as being inherently neutral and not of interest because there's no error which allows distance and through that reflection and opening up possibilities connected with the lurid and abjection and perhaps one of the reasons systemic philosophy went out of favor in the twentieth century was because of the amazing amount of interesting information exploding everywhere and all of it veer- ing in interesting directions, not those of axiomatic conclusions, but those of interesting conversations always continuing. the more the world becomes (seems to become) more interesting, the more systems are retired, those systems which are steering mechanisms and not dialogs, even bell's theorem on the other hand is a dialog of sorts." crystal radios, constant chirping, western grebes, are interesting, tantra is very interesting and full of sights, sounds, tastes, touches, smells, extremely interesting and its truth is that of the back of the human being world-consorting, every thinking of the motive and intention of thinking. and curvature, curves, mathesis of every sort, is always of interest, the thinnest of beams enabling nothing, holding up even less. {} now crystal radio is interest- ing because it's driving high-impedance earphones and it makes me wonder of course why the same electromagnetic waves couldn't be harnessed to charge lithium batteries, run low-power computers, etc. i've often thought of living in pre-transmitter times, turning on a radio - of course there'd be static and atmospherics, but i think, am almost certain, there would be something else. i am the last person on earth to await the carboniferous. {} if philosophy could be presented in an interesting manner, what then? would philosophy then be of interest? i'm thinking of nietzsche, kierke- gaard, but also of witold gombrowicz, a guide to philosophy in six hours and fifteen minutes. now the text is fascinating but i wonder if terms such as consciousness, object, subject, being, existence, nothingness, reduction, etc. couldn't be considered placemarkers for other terms such as anhinga, tibet, arlington coupler, hohner victoria harmonica, vegan sushi, and so forth? in which case the discourse might well be more inter- esting - and what is the substrate of the original terminology, what holds it both to a more philosophical habitus and to a re/configuration of the world and what the world holds? texts are of course texts of substitution, deferral, differance, narration, holding language much as the phaistos disk holds language. and the phaistos disk is interesting perhaps because it remains mute, presenting us with a diacritique of language itself. {} ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 20:33:06 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: Are the Simpsons Playing in Baghdad? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I will have to ask some of the soldiers on Yahoo if the Simpsons are playing in Baghdad. I hope so. Right next to the Crabtree & Evelyn & right next to where the bomb landed & the caiman glint in the eye of the future right next to that... today on Joe Brainard's Pyjamas some new poems and some new scanner art...feel free to comment me all you want though I do have a hall monitor who looks like the lady from Throw Momma from the Train...she tells me if it's ok to hit "publish" & i always listen to her...never argue with a woman who irons her face and has three crows in her throat.... A MAN AND HIS PERFORMING MONKEY DROWNING IN A BRIEF ATLANTIC THUNDERSTORM IN 1564 (for Philip Nikolayev) joy is so lost loss is so natural nature is so unnaturing loss is so unanswerable, isn't it (to read more stop in at _http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/_ (http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/) ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 22:37:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: CA Conrad Subject: on hearing of the American soldiers refusing to return to America after Iraq MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I'm still haunted by hearing conscientious objector Agustin Aguayo and his wife Helga speak in Philadelphia a few nights ago. They told us horrifying stories of what happened to their lives after Agustin realized he couldn't withstand the daily brutality of life as a soldier in Iraq. Something Agustin briefly mentioned was that he had met American soldiers in Germany who refuse to return to the states. During the Q&A I asked him to elaborate on that statement. It turns out there are soldiers (and apparently there is a growing number of such soldiers doing this) who, after finishing their tour of duties in Iraq, go home to the states, only to be confronted with the world we have going on here. Meaning a world of denial. A world so selfish, so nihilistic that we would DARE, as tax payers, fund the chaos, brutality, and murder that is in the lives of anyone living in Iraq these days, yet continue life as we always do. These soldiers (mostly men it seems) lose it, literally lose it when back in the states, in restaurants, in shopping malls, and start screaming at people about the war that is going on. Our endless American war. And they simply can't take it, these soldiers, and they move to Germany, marry German citizens, and vow to never return to the states. Of course there are probably soldiers doing this all over the world, not just in Germany, but Germany is where Agustin and his family were stationed, so that's where he's met such soldiers. And I have to say about these soldiers who have left America for good, I understand, a little. I certainly have not experienced what they have, but for a long time now I have been saying to myself that it's the fault of the media that we lose track of the war. It's the news stations and newspapers, it's them, it's their fault. But no, it's not really. People just don't want to think about it. People are tired of it. Americans are fatigued. And Americans are having babies by the millions, ready to focus on the nuclear family. Ready to pull the margins in a little closer. Ready to forget a little more. Some days it's almost impossible to believe our world is real. I go to my stupid job where I'm surrounded by incredibly wealthy, stupid assholes who have such a sense of entitlement, and are so mean spirited and selfish, and they really have no idea what they really deserve. As much as I Love this beautiful country, and Love the many people I know here, it just wrecks the heart to see so much indifference every single day. I'm grateful to brave men like Agustin Aguayo for saying FUCK NO, and for refusing to return to Iraq after they go home on leave. As many as possible saying NO! CAConrad http://PhillySound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 11:05:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cris cheek Subject: Re: on hearing of the American soldiers refusing to return to America after Iraq In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,2147052,00.html go CA On 8/11/07, CA Conrad wrote: > I'm still haunted by hearing conscientious objector Agustin Aguayo and his > wife Helga speak in Philadelphia a few nights ago. > > They told us horrifying stories of what happened to their lives after > Agustin realized he couldn't withstand the daily brutality of life as a > soldier in Iraq. > > Something Agustin briefly mentioned was that he had met American soldiers in > Germany who refuse to return to the states. During the Q&A I asked him to > elaborate on that statement. It turns out there are soldiers (and > apparently there is a growing number of such soldiers doing this) who, > after finishing their tour of duties in Iraq, go home to the states, only to > be confronted with the world we have going on here. Meaning a world of > denial. A world so selfish, so nihilistic that we would DARE, as tax > payers, fund the chaos, brutality, and murder that is in the lives of anyone > living in Iraq these days, yet continue life as we always do. These > soldiers (mostly men it seems) lose it, literally lose it when back in the > states, in restaurants, in shopping malls, and start screaming at people > about the war that is going on. Our endless American war. And they simply > can't take it, these soldiers, and they move to Germany, marry German > citizens, and vow to never return to the states. > > Of course there are probably soldiers doing this all over the world, not > just in Germany, but Germany is where Agustin and his family were stationed, > so that's where he's met such soldiers. > > And I have to say about these soldiers who have left America for good, I > understand, a little. I certainly have not experienced what they have, but > for a long time now I have been saying to myself that it's the fault of the > media that we lose track of the war. It's the news stations and newspapers, > it's them, it's their fault. But no, it's not really. People just don't > want to think about it. People are tired of it. Americans are fatigued. > And Americans are having babies by the millions, ready to focus on the > nuclear family. Ready to pull the margins in a little closer. Ready to > forget a little more. > > Some days it's almost impossible to believe our world is real. I go to my > stupid job where I'm surrounded by incredibly wealthy, stupid assholes who > have such a sense of entitlement, and are so mean spirited and selfish, and > they really have no idea what they really deserve. As much as I Love this > beautiful country, and Love the many people I know here, it just wrecks the > heart to see so much indifference every single day. > > I'm grateful to brave men like Agustin Aguayo for saying FUCK NO, and for > refusing to return to Iraq after they go home on leave. As many as possible > saying NO! > > CAConrad > http://PhillySound.blogspot.com > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 11:29:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jcu Subject: Re: on hearing of the American soldiers refusing to return to America after Iraq:if you're an american, don't say that too loudly MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . see Wed Aug 1 post on Pierre Jorris' blog http://pjoris.blogspot.com/ From: "CA Conrad" Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 11:37 PM Subject: on hearing of the American soldiers refusing to return to America after Iraq > I'm still haunted by hearing conscientious objector Agustin Aguayo and his > wife Helga speak in Philadelphia a few nights ago. > > They told us horrifying stories of what happened to their lives after > Agustin realized he couldn't withstand the daily brutality of life as a > soldier in Iraq. > > Something Agustin briefly mentioned was that he had met American soldiers > in > Germany who refuse to return to the states. During the Q&A I asked him to > elaborate on that statement. It turns out there are soldiers (and > apparently there is a growing number of such soldiers doing this) who, > after finishing their tour of duties in Iraq, go home to the states, only > to > be confronted with the world we have going on here. Meaning a world of > denial. A world so selfish, so nihilistic that we would DARE, as tax > payers, fund the chaos, brutality, and murder that is in the lives of > anyone > living in Iraq these days, yet continue life as we always do. These > soldiers (mostly men it seems) lose it, literally lose it when back in the > states, in restaurants, in shopping malls, and start screaming at people > about the war that is going on. Our endless American war. And they > simply > can't take it, these soldiers, and they move to Germany, marry German > citizens, and vow to never return to the states. > > Of course there are probably soldiers doing this all over the world, not > just in Germany, but Germany is where Agustin and his family were > stationed, > so that's where he's met such soldiers. > > And I have to say about these soldiers who have left America for good, I > understand, a little. I certainly have not experienced what they have, > but > for a long time now I have been saying to myself that it's the fault of > the > media that we lose track of the war. It's the news stations and > newspapers, > it's them, it's their fault. But no, it's not really. People just don't > want to think about it. People are tired of it. Americans are fatigued. > And Americans are having babies by the millions, ready to focus on the > nuclear family. Ready to pull the margins in a little closer. Ready to > forget a little more. > > Some days it's almost impossible to believe our world is real. I go to my > stupid job where I'm surrounded by incredibly wealthy, stupid assholes who > have such a sense of entitlement, and are so mean spirited and selfish, > and > they really have no idea what they really deserve. As much as I Love this > beautiful country, and Love the many people I know here, it just wrecks > the > heart to see so much indifference every single day. > > I'm grateful to brave men like Agustin Aguayo for saying FUCK NO, and for > refusing to return to Iraq after they go home on leave. As many as > possible > saying NO! > > CAConrad > http://PhillySound.blogspot.com > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 12:04:02 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: Re: that's really interesting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I always "keep as new" posts that I know I will need to read at least five times to really savor the depth of the thought...why is it that my mailbox is now filled with about twenty list posts from Mr. Sondheim and Mr. Chirot...LOL...keep it up...it's getting really savory...one of my favorite spices btw...love it in mashed potatoes and soups...I think it's time to head to ABE books and snare a couple from the above-mentioned... Joe Brainard's Pyjamas has suggestions on how NOT to enter a Grimms' fairy tale, and how possibly to enter one today...no refunds, no rain checks... xo ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 09:16:49 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christine Hamm Subject: first book interview In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I got interviewed by Kate Greenstreet on the kickingwind: http://kickingwind.com/081207.html Christine Hamm __________________ www.christinehamm.org ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 12:18:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cris cheek Subject: models of praxis?? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline hi, since the list (or part of the list) is discussing curricula i wonder if anybody can give me some pointers as to where and how models of creative writing practice have been integrated into a more conventional degree in English ? i know i know . . . the term Creative Writing does not do it to me either. I'm kinda stuck with it atm (tbc) There are many English Departments (in the USAmerican system) offering Creative Writing and English Literature, for example, as well as Composition and Rhetoric and Technical and Scientific Communication at undergraduate and graduate levels. How many of those seriously intertwine creative writing "practice" into a straight forward English degree, so that students emerge with an English BA (say) rather than a Creative Writing BA and so that Lit students will have struggled with the material practicalities of creative writing practice? Keen to hear of any mixes out there, anecdptes etc . . attempts . . . i know this *might bore the clothing off list members but am grateful for any leads either up front or back channel. love and looking forwards cris ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 12:30:55 -0500 Reply-To: dgodston@sbcglobal.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Godston Subject: BibliOdyssey In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit BibliOdyssey's got amazing images of rare text decorations, wild typography & other stuff -- The Phantom of the Optical: An Online Illustration Trove BibliOdyssey gives entree to a gorgeous and idiosyncratic gallery of rare art. by Damien B. M. English The Phantom of the Optical Somewhere in Sydney, a man quietly communes with his computer, poring over visual "materia obscura" from every corner of the world and a wide spectrum of centuries. Through RSS (Real Simple Syndication) feeds, bookmarked links, e-newsletter subscriptions, and search engines, he sifts through the Web looking for art collections, exhibitions, archives of old engravings, and portfolios of contemporary graphic artists to share with the world. This man isn't looking for any particular thing; rather, it seems he's looking for every beautiful, peculiar, or haunting piece of art that has ever graced the pages of a book. But what he's looking for exactly is not important -- what matters is that he's gathering up the gems and oddities he finds for a visually rich site called BibliOdyssey, a splendid classroom-discussion tool and entree into art and its history. The Webmaster, Paul (he has asked that his last name not be printed), is a mysterious man in his early forties who was born and raised in Sydney and has spent some time in Vietnam. Known on the site only as peacay or pk, he says his digital guise isn't an effort to create what he calls a "secretive persona" but rather the result of a desire to take a backseat to the art, "because, after all is said and done," he adds, "I'm just a curator, and it is the content that deserves center stage." Paul's BibliOdyssey began with what he describes as the "vague notion" to find interesting but obscure book illustrations. Coupled with this desire was his growing experience with (and eventual expertise in mining) the riches of the Internet. Using the burgeoning blogosphere, Internet communities such as Metafilter, and the online bookmarking site del.icio.us, he began saving images, then learned how to tweak them for presentation. Like any bricks-and-mortar gallery curator, he wanted to share his personal pleasures, so he began posting his rare finds to a Blogger.com hosting site. The rest of his Odyssean venture naturally fell into place from there. "The most profound change to the site took place with my gaining more confidence handling the images," he says. "From this flowed an increase in the number of images per post, along with an eventual belief that the site functioned best as a visual magazine rather than just one or two images per post." At this writing, BibliOdyssey offers more than 700 posts, all organized, tagged, indexed, hyperlinked, and readily available to any art lover with a modem. Each posting of images includes Paul's meticulously researched commentary, as well as more links for those students or teachers interested in continuing the exploration. "What you see in a single post may have taken days, and sometimes months, to collect, research, write, and edit," says Paul. "For every hour of work in producing a post, there have probably been ten hours of not-quite-fruitless searching, reading, and editing." This attention to detail, and in the quality of the art itself, can draw teachers and students alike into a world of odd, elegant, and often surprising images -- each with its own story to tell. A journey through BibliOdyssey gives art students a chance to sample an eye-peeling exhibition of art and illustration ranging from a powerfully imagined sketch of a stormy sea during the Permian age to the funny and peculiar skeletal "Funny Bones" color sketches of Louis Crucius, displayed in the window of a St. Louis pharmacy during the late nineteenth century. One of the most significant things to be learned from BibliOdyssey is how the Internet can open astonishing new worlds to anyone. Paul has no background in the visual arts (his resume mentions experience in nursing, biochemistry, the insurance business, and teaching English as a second language, but no design background). Wide-ranging curiosity and a natural gift for spotting memorable art, combined with the modern miracle that lets us search archives around the globe, have made possible something as engaging as this site. The man behind the screen isn't reaping any financial gain from his work, other than some advertising revenue. He calls the site his "online manifestation of a personal midlife crisis," joking that it's an obsessive hobby that "keeps me off the streets." His Web browsing is never topic based; the primary goal is just to find what he considers "artistically viable" images that catch his eye and appear in enough numbers to merit a post. "I can react to something if it's bizarre or elegant or gorgeous or smart," he says. "But I can -- and very often do -- find beauty or interest in the minutiae: the technical virtuosity of an engraving or the possible meanings of some motif in an allegorical picture, or simply the exquisite beauty of a particular color. I like obscure and weird, certainly -- images that are often less well known -- but, like everyone, I have a wide potential for visual interest." Sharing this interest with others is the main reason Paul plays the assiduous curator, along with the creative freedom it grants him. "Without delving too far into the psychology, BibliOdyssey allows me an outlet for my research tendencies and, in an ongoing way, positive feedback makes me feel that I'm doing something that's appreciated," he says. "That, in turn, provides justification for continuing to search for weird and wonderful visual images." And there is no doubt he takes pride in his site and works hard for the greater good of the free, easy-to-access information the Internet is celebrated for. "I had a duty to be as accurate as possible," he says. "Otherwise, I would feel as if I wasn't making any real contribution. I pride myself on providing, to the best of my modest abilities, the most interesting and important information as an accompaniment to the images. Images can be magnetic invitations to learn. BibliOdyssey is a good example of using image-based enticements to draw people to the stories, history, and backgrounds of many subject areas." Damien B.M. English is a freelance writer living in San Francisco. This article was also published in Edutopia Magazine, July 2007 http://www.edutopia.org/online-gallery-rare-art http://www.bibliodyssey.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 14:06:35 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Chris Sullivan in New Orleans Comments: cc: UK POETRY , "Poetryetc: poetry and poetics" Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In case you have lost sight/site of Chris Sullivan (poet, photographer and song maker) he continues to live in post-Katrina New Orleans where he makes careful record of the catastrophic tragicomic particulars to be found there. His website is: http://8letters.blogspot.com Chris's visual collection of over one hundred refugee basketballs, Poboy signage and 'underperforming billboards' becomes a visit to an underworld (a macro-mirror of the 'disappeared'.) The Federal Gov's continued complicity with Katrina to make permanent the urban removal of a population of the poor is more than self-evident. If you are in Charleston, Chris Sullivan's work is on exhibit at the Light Factory. Details: http://lightfactory.org Stephen V http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 20:31:57 -0400 Reply-To: dbuuck@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Buuck Subject: Performance in Boston 8/18 Comments: cc: Natasha Schull , L & T Listserv Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable containment-confinement-circumscription a 12-hour durational performance by Natalie Loveless, Dillon Paul, and Davi= d Buuck Saturday August 18, 2007 from noon until midnight =20 Studio Soto 63 Melcher St, 1st Floor, Boston Massachusetts, 02210 Phone: 617.426.7686 For directions, go to http://studiosoto.jot.com/Directions admission free : donations accepted On August 18th, Natalie Loveless, Dillon Paul, and David Buuck will create = simultaneous durational performances using the concept of containment-confi= nement-circumscription as a conceptual framework. Performing for a duratio= n of 12 hours, they will be wrapped, trapped, and disciplined, both literal= ly and figuratively, grappling with the physical, social, institutional, ps= ychological and political implications of their conditions, as well as sear= ching for points of friction and resistance.=20 Natalie Loveless will perform the third in a trilogy of wrapping pieces, a = twelve-hour durational exploration using invisible thread. In this perform= ance, Loveless explores the transparent as both an active physical material= and a conceptual agent. Like an ideology, like the unconscious, the invis= ible moves us. Both aesthetic and political, this durational action explor= es the force of the innocuously transparent as a mode of active opposition.= =20 Dillon Paul will perform Capture #3, a solo performance inside an enclosed = wooden box. The structure of the work conjures images of imprisonment and = isolation, while the private viewing mechanism evokes a peephole or one-way= observation room. In a suspenseful cat and mouse game, the viewers are en= ticed to "capture" the performance using a digital camera, acknowledging th= at, like Schroedinger=C2=B4s Cat, the audience is implicated in the possibi= lity that their observation inherently changes that which it observes. =20 David Buuck will perform actions from The Treatment, an ongoing performativ= e writing project. In this iteration, the mundane work of the writer confro= nts the durational experience of the writing/thinking/performing body withi= n the institutional spaces of the cubicle, and the broader "white cube" of = the gallery, or the living-book. Reading and writing thus become public act= s of presence, tuned to the charged sites of the social. =20 For more information, go to=20 http://studiosoto.jot.com/WikiHome/containment-confinement-circumscription ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 20:35:17 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Wilcox Subject: Third Thursday Poetry Night, Albany, NY: William Seaton & Open Mic Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed the Poetry Motel Foundation presents Third Thursday Poetry Night at the Social Justice Center 33 Central Ave., Albany, NY Thursday, August 16, 2007=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 7:00 sign up; 7:30 start Featured Poet: William Seaton with open mic for poets before & after the feature $3.00 donation.=A0 Your perpetual host: Dan Wilcox. William Seaton is a poet, translator, and critic who, for over thirteen=20= years has produced the Poetry on the Loose Reading/Performance Series=20 in Middletown, New York.=A0=A0His own poetry and translations of authors=20= from ancient Greeks to twentieth century German Dadaists have been=20 published in such journals as Chelsea, Wordsmith, Mad Blood, Home=20 Planet News, Heaven Bone, and in several anthologies.=A0 Boca de Tomatlan =A0=A0=A0=A0by William Seaton =46rom this cove the hills swell up like old tumors, straining with luxuriance, tense with heat and damp and pain of constant overreaching. An iguana with a bad conscience dashes down a tree and vanishes. A bright orange flower offers to sell herself to tourists. A pelican bobs like a buoy. Its ancient eyes assure all who happen here, =93Have no fear.=A0 I, too, am your heart=92s likeness.=94 # ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 18:03:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: on hearing of the American soldiers refusing to return to America after Iraq Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Poets Relating to Veteran Craziness in today's Washington Post: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/11/AR2007081100 914.html?hpid=topnews Back Home, More Frustration By Elizabeth Williamson Washington Post Staff Writer Sunday, August 12, 2007; Page A06 BRUNSWICK, Maine The woman stood waiting amid the lunch counter clatter at the Grand City Variety Store to confront Olympia J. Snowe.... ...Nor does it seem to to Gary Lawless, the long-haired, bearded proprietor of Gulf of Maine Books, a poet who told Snowe that he is teaching writing to combat-stressed veterans "to get their stories literally out of their bodies, so they're not carrying them around by themselves." The senator, nodding, told him, "I've seen what they put people through." They seemed to be talking from two distant places. The poet musing on his veterans and their pain. The senator using Washington words to say she understands. She has been to Iraq twice and said she will go again in September, that she has spoken to the president. "On an individual basis, if you know of anything our office can do to help," she said, motioning to an aide. Lawless shook his head. "They don't trust the government to help them."... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 16:01:14 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Susan Webster Schultz Subject: Tinfish re-launch and war criminal report MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tinfish is re-launching our on-line feature on translation, with a new essay on rendering WCW's "The Red Wheelbarrow" into Chinese by Jennifer Feeley, a Ph.D. student in Chinese at Yale. Turns out the poem is damn hard to translate. http://tinfishpress.com/tinfishnet.html And please remember Tinfish's war criminal offer. Buy a copy of Sarith Peou's CORPSE WATCHING for the war criminal of your choice for $10 ($2 off retail). Buy a second at that price for yourself. Our criminals so far include Henry Kissinger, Brent Scowcroft, and Robert McNamara. We have yet to find an address for Nguyen Cao Ky--if you have one, please help us out. See here for the official offer and description of the book. http://tinfishpress.com/hot_off_the_press.html aloha, Susan Schultz Editor and moneybags Tinfish Press ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 21:49:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: CA Conrad Subject: Re: on hearing of the American soldiers refusing to return to America after Iraq MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Thank you for plugging us into the OBSERVER and Pierre Joris's blog post. Agustin Aguayo's story also needs to be heard. The horror he has seen in the eyes of children in Iraq needs to be known. He was supposed to be a medic for crying fucking out loud, but of course the human resources are stretched so thin that they make the medics go on patrol with guns to shoot and kill one shift of the day, then go to the hospital and put other bodies back together for the rest of the day. Agustin's wife Helga told us he was sending her letters explaining that he was a destroyed man, and that he would never be the same again. It frightened her of course. But neither of them realized that his letters were being read by the army. Then officers showed up at their apartment in Germany to convince Helga to write back to Agustin and encourage him to be the man she knew he could be. And she did this at first because she wanted her husband to be safe, wanted him to be strong in order to remain safe. Last night I went to a party to see a good friend who is moving to Buffalo to study poetry. She wanted me to tell her about Agustin and Helga because she couldn't make the talk, and so I did, and we were outside and away from the rest of the party to do this. Then another friend came out, and was actually ANGRY that we were discussing the war. We got scolded for discussing the war while a party was going on. Not being eaten alive by what's going on seems almost criminal to me some days. CAConrad http://PhillySound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 22:13:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: CA Conrad Subject: ever since the 3rd anniversary of our American invasion of Iraq MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline The first few years of occupation seemed to be years where everyone was discussing, attending marches, keeping the fever pitch, spreading the descent. But on the morning of the 3rd anniversary of our occupation I remember not moving in bed, just staying still and thinking about the war. And thinking too about thinking about the war. And asking myself quite honestly if in fact I thought about the war every single day. And it seemed an honest answer to say Yes, that I did. But I was worried about the future, was worried about continuing to think, to remember the many lives my tax dollars pay to destroy. It was that morning that I wanted to make something, just for myself, something that would remind me every single day without fail that we are a country at war. A handwritten, or painted sign could easily be gotten used to and lost in the room. So many ideas kept coming. I even considered a tattoo, but felt that that too could get lost in the routine of survival and pain of routine. My hair. When I finally thought about my hair I knew that I had the answer. And ever since the 3rd anniversary of our American invasion of Iraq I have refused to cut my hair. Every morning I have to see it, and feel it, and wash it. It's grown beyond my shoulders, and the longer it gets the more care it needs. And I've had long hair in the past, but I didn't care for that hair like I do this hair. It's a personal metaphor to live with, this War Hair of mine. I've never spent money on conditioners like I do now. Being with this hair keeps me in check, keeps me angry, keeps me mournful, keeps me far FAR FAR from sentimentality and other stupidities, and sets me down in the middle of this breathtaking landscape of American denial. This hair will not be cut until we are out of Iraq. And my friends keep asking what that means exactly. Does it mean when our soldiers are out? Or when the war itself is over? Or? Or peace? Or? It would be nice to not die with it is all I can answer. CAConrad http://PhillySound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 15:23:40 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wystan Curnow Subject: Re: models of praxis?? In-Reply-To: A MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable cris, In this English Department in Auckland, New Zealand, writing courses are offerred at each level: first year includes a course called Reading/Writing/Text, second year offerings includes Creative Writing: Introduction, and Writing and Culture, at the third (final BA year)there are five courses: Poetry off the page, focusing on live and electronic performance, Writing poetry, and Writing the short story, Rhetoric and Compositonand The Art and craft of the Essay. There is no BA in Creative Writing but students can make a speciality of writing in their English major by availing themselves of the range of offerings. There is now, however, a Masters in Creative Writing--started this year. There are other courses at the Masters level, such as Pragmatic, Literacy, Poetics; Topics in Poetics; as well as undergraduate courses, such as Contemporary poetry at third year, that are of use to students interested in writing creative or otherwise. This development of a portfolio of writing courses has Been developed over the last few years, partly in reponse to student interest and partly through a determination to take writing as such, seriously, which means leaving remedial, vocational, purely applied teaching to others. I teach Writing Poetry and Contemporary poetry at third year, and the graduate course, Topics in Poetics. We also have a Drama programme which includes 4 graduate courses in dramatic writing. There are 4 poets and a novelist among the permanent staff. =20 =20 Wystan=20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of cris cheek Sent: Monday, 13 August 2007 4:19 a.m. To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: models of praxis?? hi, since the list (or part of the list) is discussing curricula i wonder if anybody can give me some pointers as to where and how models of creative writing practice have been integrated into a more conventional degree in English ? i know i know . . . the term Creative Writing does not do it to me either. I'm kinda stuck with it atm (tbc) There are many English Departments (in the USAmerican system) offering Creative Writing and English Literature, for example, as well as Composition and Rhetoric and Technical and Scientific Communication at undergraduate and graduate levels. How many of those seriously intertwine creative writing "practice" into a straight forward English degree, so that students emerge with an English BA (say) rather than a Creative Writing BA and so that Lit students will have struggled with the material practicalities of creative writing practice? Keen to hear of any mixes out there, anecdptes etc . . attempts . . . i know this *might bore the clothing off list members but am grateful for any leads either up front or back channel. love and looking forwards cris ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 02:44:15 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: http://www.asondheim.org/infusiontantra.mp4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed http://www.asondheim.org/infusiontantra.mp4 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 22:20:42 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Gabrielle Welford Subject: desecration of King Kamehameha's personal heiau at Kamakahonu MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT hi all. I am in Kailua-Kona on Hawai'i Island helping friends who are responsible for protecting and preserving Ahu'ena Heiau, which was King Kamehameha I's personal heiau and the place where he began the Hawaiian Kingdom. He was also prepared for burial there. The heiau is now surrounded by a hotel, which was recently sold to an investment company that preserves its investors' assets by buying prime hotel property in coastal areas. They are trying to evict Kulana Huli Honua, the Hawaiian stewards of the temple. Here are 10 facts about this desecration. Click on website addresses further down to hear Mikahala Roy, kahu of the heiau, Jimmy Medeiros, a cultural practitioner with Keopuka Ohana, and Uncle George Naope, a renowned hula teacher and cultural practitioner. 10 FACTS ABOUT KAMAKAHONU AND AHU'ENA HEIAU 1. Kamakahonu was home to high chiefs of Hawai'i. 2. From 1812-1819, it was the personal residence of King Kamehameha the Great. 3. Kamakahonu was the first capitol of the Hawaiian Kingdom. 4. Ahu'ena Heiau, located at Kamakahonu, was originally a luakini for Ku and was restored and rededicated by Kamehameha to Lono. 5. Kamehameha died at Kamakahonu in 1819; the Hale Lua platform, where he was prepared for burial is adjacent to Ahu'ena Heiau. 6. Today, beside the Heiau and the Hale Lua, the King Kamehameha's Kona Beach Hotel holds its nightly luau and Polynesian extravaganza with fake ali`i, dancing and drinking, and tourists eating at tables within a few feet of the Hale Lua, which still holds 'iwi [bones] of our ancestors. 7. The waters that surround the Ahu'ena Heiau complex are sacred, but are used today by tourist for swimming, snorkeling and their enjoyment. 8. Kamakahonu and Ahu'ena Heiau are the anchor to countless sacred sites along the Kona Coast that are being swallowed up by real estate ventures. 9. The new owners of the hotel, Pacifica Hotels Corporation of Santa Barbara, CA, and Black Point Capital Advisors of Honolulu, are claiming ownership of Ahu'ena Heiau and its history; this is an insult to all Hawaiians past and present, and it violates Article 12, Section 7 of the Hawai'i State constitution, protecting traditional religious practices of native Hawaiians. 10. Kamakahonu and Ahu'ena Heiau represent the Ea [sovereignty] of the Hawaiian people; this sacred site is literally where our international nationhood began. to access the psa's, click on the following websites: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fMkcLoezxo http://www.youtube.com/v/AghIFSPkzMc http://www.youtube.com/v/nTWNVF4WLuk More to come... No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.412 / Virus Database: 268.18.4/705 - Release Date: 2/27/2007 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 05:30:19 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: late in the evening MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit it was late in the evening with all the music seeping through. that's a snazzy rhythm machine, that song. and poem. and melody. and those horns! think of a piece of software art that has a sense of rhythm in the movement of its parts. it moves the data on the machine in rhythm. it moves like music. maybe it isn't music. maybe it's visual or something else or all. anything that i can say to you that doesn't need you to be creative is boring, as poetry. he says he turned his amp up, began to play, and blew that room away. but it's the horns that do it. no, it's you, ramon fernandez! ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 09:24:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: models of praxis?? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline cris, this is a very timely query for me because I am trying to rethink the undergraduate creative writing program at the (art & design) school where I teach. In this case, it's a matter of creative writing courses within a BFA, not a BA. I don't have a problem with the term "creative writing" (though I probably like Kenny Goldsmith's "uncreative writing" even more), as I'm very conscious of the history of the discipline in America; in some ways I'm even proud to own the term. There is enough uneasiness about it though to warrant a next move -- I'll be interested to hear what you come up with. I don't teach writing within a BA, but within a BFA (studio majors). It's very difficult to build progression into our curriculum, though we try. We have a fantastic faculty of two full-time people; and a core group of part-time faculty, widely published & experienced. One question I have concerns courses like the second year course Wystan mentioned, "Creative Writing: Introduction," i.e., introductory courses in more than one genre. How do faculty, whose practice and achievement is in one genre, teach the craft of a second? Is the expectation that the lessons learned in one genre transfer to a second or third? Or do faculty teaching introductory courses generally have experience in more than one genre? And the concomitant question: to what extent can/should you detach curriculum from faculty? In creative writing, have teachers tended to teach from their own practice more than from an agreed curriculum? I'd love to hear more about what you're doing or trying to do, cris. For example, can students repeat courses for credit? How many books do you customarily assign in creative writing workshops (when I was a graduate student, books were not necessarily assigned, but I tend to assign lots, too many maybe, up to 10)? What's your take on genre-based workshops? (My own is: the more amorphous/pervasive poetry becomes for as a form, the more I want to teach its conventional forms! ). What are the interest points in this discussion for you? What are the conflicts? What have you been able to apply from your experience and contexts in England? What would you like to apply? Another thing that's a problem, as time goes on, and as experience in a genre deepens, is that the gap between teacher and student widens. I often assign texts on the basis of my own interest -- I may be bored by texts students haven't even read yet. So, as check-and-balance, the notion of a creative writing curriculum becomes a little attractive, as in Wystan's portfolio of courses, i.e., the best thought of a range of faculty is employed to design an overall structure, within which individuals teach. In my own experience, overall structure in creative writing programs has either been very, very basic, e.g., Intro to Creative Writing, then Beginning, Intermediate, or Advanced workshops in genres; or madly proliferating, with a wide range of faculty offering a bouquet of similar but different courses. I'd love to hear some "best thought" on undergraduate creative writing curricula, also from those who feel they are achieving good results. Mairead >>> w.curnow@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ 08/12/07 11:23 PM >>> cris, In this English Department in Auckland, New Zealand, writing courses are offerred at each level: first year includes a course called Reading/Writing/Text, second year offerings includes Creative Writing: Introduction, and Writing and Culture, at the third (final BA year)there are five courses: Poetry off the page, focusing on live and electronic performance, Writing poetry, and Writing the short story, Rhetoric and Compositonand The Art and craft of the Essay. There is no BA in Creative Writing but students can make a speciality of writing in their English major by availing themselves of the range of offerings. There is now, however, a Masters in Creative Writing--started this year. There are other courses at the Masters level, such as Pragmatic, Literacy, Poetics; Topics in Poetics; as well as undergraduate courses, such as Contemporary poetry at third year, that are of use to students interested in writing creative or otherwise. This development of a portfolio of writing courses has Been developed over the last few years, partly in reponse to student interest and partly through a determination to take writing as such, seriously, which means leaving remedial, vocational, purely applied teaching to others. I teach Writing Poetry and Contemporary poetry at third year, and the graduate course, Topics in Poetics. We also have a Drama programme which includes 4 graduate courses in dramatic writing. There are 4 poets and a novelist among the permanent staff. Wystan -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of cris cheek Sent: Monday, 13 August 2007 4:19 a.m. To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: models of praxis?? hi, since the list (or part of the list) is discussing curricula i wonder if anybody can give me some pointers as to where and how models of creative writing practice have been integrated into a more conventional degree in English ? i know i know . . . the term Creative Writing does not do it to me either. I'm kinda stuck with it atm (tbc) There are many English Departments (in the USAmerican system) offering Creative Writing and English Literature, for example, as well as Composition and Rhetoric and Technical and Scientific Communication at undergraduate and graduate levels. How many of those seriously intertwine creative writing "practice" into a straight forward English degree, so that students emerge with an English BA (say) rather than a Creative Writing BA and so that Lit students will have struggled with the material practicalities of creative writing practice? Keen to hear of any mixes out there, anecdptes etc . . attempts . . . i know this *might bore the clothing off list members but am grateful for any leads either up front or back channel. love and looking forwards cris ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 10:00:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Kelleher Subject: Literary Buffalo E-Newsletter 8.13.07-8.19.07 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable LITERARY BUFFALO 8.13.07-8.19.07 EVENTS 8.14.07 RUST BELT BOOKS Book Launch for Roofing and Siding, by Douglas Manson (BlazeVOX Books) & Accidental Thrust by Nick Traenkner (little scratch pad press) Tuesday, August 14, 7 p.m. Rust Belt Books 202 Allen Street, Buffalo 8.19.08 THE SCREENING ROOM Celebration of Rosemary Kothe Sunday, August 19, 2 p.m. The Screening Room Northtown Plaza Business Center, 3131 Sheridan Dr. & JUST BUFFALO OPEN READING_ Featured: Don Scheller _ Sunday, August 19, 7 p.m. _ Rust Belt Books 202 Allen Street, Buffalo (Meets the monthly on the third Sunday) 10 Slots for open readers. BABEL SUBSCRIPTIONS ARE GOING FAST=21=21=21 SUBSCRIBE TODAY at http://www.justbuffalo.org/babel or by calling 832-5400. Just Buffalo Literary Center is proud to introduce BABEL, an exciting new r= eading and conversation series that will feature four of the world's most i= mportant and critically acclaimed international authors each year. In our first season, we will present two Nobel Prize winners, one Man Booke= r Prize winner, and an acclaimed Broadway playwright. Here's the season in = a nutshell: November 8 Orhan Pamuk, Turkey, Winner of the 2006 Nobel Prize December 7 Ariel Dorfman, Chile, Author of Death and the Maiden March 13 Derek Walcott, St. Lucia, Winner of the 1992 Nobel Prize April 24 Kiran Desai, India, Winner of the 2006 Man Booker Prize Members of Just Buffalo/CEPA Gallery/Big Orbit Gallery, Hallwalls and the I= nternational Institute of Buffalo can subscribe to this series at an early = bird member discount from now until September 1 at a special member rate of= =2460. Book groups (minimum three people) can also subscribe at a special rate of = =2460 per person for the whole season. Book group subscriptions by phone on= ly at 832-5400. Regular subscriptions: =2475. JUST BUFFALO WRITER'S CRITIQUE GROUP =21=21=21 WRITER CRITIQUE GROUP IS ON SUMMER HIATUS. WE'LL RETURN IN SEPTEM= BER =21=21=21 Members of Just Buffalo are welcome to attend a free, bi-monthly writer cri= tique group in CEPA's Flux Gallery on the first floor of the historic Marke= t Arcade Building across the street from Shea's. Group meets 1st and 3rd We= dnesday at 7 p.m. Call Just Buffalo for details. WESTERN NEW YORK ROMANCE WRITERS group meets the third Wednesday of every m= onth at St. Joseph Hospital community room at 11a.m. Address: 2605 Harlem R= oad, Cheektowaga, NY 14225. For details go to www.wnyrw.org. JOIN JUST BUFFALO ONLINE=21=21=21 If you would like to join Just Buffalo, or simply make a massive personal d= onation, you can do so online using your credit card. We have recently add= ed the ability to join online by paying with a credit card through PayPal. = Simply click on the membership level at which you would like to join, log = in (or create a PayPal account using your Visa/Amex/Mastercard/Discover), a= nd voil=E1, you will find yourself in literary heaven. For more info, or t= o join now, go to our website: http://www.justbuffalo.org/membership/index.shtml UNSUBSCRIBE If you would like to unsubscribe from this list, just say so and you will b= e immediately removed. _______________________________ Michael Kelleher Artistic Director Just Buffalo Literary Center Market Arcade 617 Main St., Ste. 202A Buffalo, NY 14203 716.832.5400 716.270.0184 (fax) www.justbuffalo.org mjk=40justbuffalo.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 10:12:05 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cris cheek Subject: Re: models of praxis?? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline hi all, thanks for the many and provocative responses both on the list and off it. I feel maybe i should say just a little more about what's pushing my search for other models. We have (i am being approximate) 340 students in the Creative Writing program and 390 in Literature. Students get awarded a BA in Literature or a BA in Creative Writing (there are graduate programs in both too ofc). The idea is to begin to consider an "integration" so that a degree in English will result, without losing the strengths of both programs. I see an opportunity to discuss praxis being a core of such integration, both in and out of the classroom. Praxis *might not be the best term, so i'll gladly take friendly ammendments on that score;) But a pedagogical shake-up between existing mores of "creative" and "literary" models. keep it coming love and looking forwards cris ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 10:24:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Zawacki Subject: VERSE vol. 24, n=?iso-8859-1?Q?=B0?= 1-3 : French Poetry & Poetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 VkVSU0UgYW5ub3VuY2VzIHRoZSByZWxlYXNlIG9mIHZvbHVtZSAyNCwgbnVtYmVycyAxLTM6 DQoNCkZSRU5DSCBQT0VUUlkgJiBQT0VUSUNTDQoNCmNvZWRpdGVkIGJ5IEFiaWdhaWwgTGFu ZyAmIEFuZHJldyBaYXdhY2tpLg0KDQoNClRFWFRTIGJ5IFBpZXJyZSBBbGZlcmksIE1hcmll IEJvcmVsLCBPc2NhcmluZSBCb3NxdWV0LCBPbGl2aWVyIENhZGlvdCwgU3V6YW5uZSANCkRv cHBlbHQsIENhcm9saW5lIER1Ym9pcywgRnLDqWTDqXJpYyBGb3J0ZSwgRG9taW5pcXVlIEZv dXJjYWRlLCBKZWFuIEZyw6ltb24sIA0KTWljaGVsbGUgR3JhbmdhdWQsIEVtbWFudWVsIEhv Y3F1YXJkLCBQaGlsaXBwZSBKYWNjb3R0ZXQsIElhbiBNb25rLCBBbm5lIA0KUGFyaWFuLCBB bm5lIFBvcnR1Z2FsLCBKYWNxdWVsaW5lIFJpc3NldCwgSmFjcXVlcyBSb3ViYXVkLCBDbGF1 ZGUgUm95ZXQtDQpKb3Vybm91ZCwgU8OpYmFzdGllbiBTbWlyb3UsIENocmlzdG9waGUgVGFy a29zLCAmIELDqW7DqWRpY3RlIFZpbGdyYWluLg0KDQpJTlRFUlZJRVdTIHdpdGggRG9taW5p cXVlIEZvdXJjYWRlICYgQ2xhdWRlIFJveWV0LUpvdXJub3VkLg0KDQpFU1NBWVMgYnkgQ3Jh aWcgRHdvcmtpbiwgS2V2aW4gSGFydCwgJiBKZWFuLUphY3F1ZXMgUG91Y2VsLg0KDQpUUkFO U0xBVE9SUyBmb3IgdGhlIGlzc3VlIGFyZSBHdXkgQmVubmV0dCwgSnVkaXRoIEJpc2hvcCwg QmV2ZXJsZXkgQmllIEJyYWhpYywgDQpQZXRlciBDb25zZW5zdGVpbiwgSmVubmlmZXIgRGlj aywgU3RldmUgRXZhbnMsIE1pY2FlbGEgS3JhbWVyLCBBbm5hIA0KTW9zY2hvdmFraXMsIEpl bm5pZmVyIE1veGxleSwgU2FyYWggUmlnZ3MsIEVsZW5pIFNpa2VsaWFub3MsIENvbGUgU3dl bnNlbiwgS2VpdGggDQpXYWxkcm9wLCBSb3NtYXJpZSBXYWxkcm9wLCBDaGV0IFdpZW5lciwg JiBBbmRyZXcgWmF3YWNraS4NCg0KQk9PSyBSRVZJRVdTOg0KDQpUaW1vdGh5IERvbm5lbGx5 IG9uIFN0w6lwaGFuZSBNYWxsYXJtw6k7IFRvbSBUaG9tcHNvbiBvbiBDaGFybGVzIEJhdWRl bGFpcmU7IA0KTWljaGFlbCBIZWxsZXIgb24gRWRtb25kIEphYsOoczsgVGVkIFBlYXJzb24g b24gSm9obiBHcm9zamVhbjsgTmF0aGFsaWUgDQpTdGVwaGVucyBvbiBCw6lhdHJpY2UgTW91 c2xpOyBSdXN0eSBNb3JyaXNvbiBvbiBDbGF1ZGUgUm95ZXQtSm91cm5vdWQ7IA0KQmV2ZXJs ZXkgQmllIEJyYWhpYyBvbiBKYWNxdWVzIFJvdWJhdWQ7IEVkdWFyZG8gQ2FkYXZhIG9uIFN1 emFubmUgRG9wcGVsdDsgDQpBbnRvaW5lIENhesOpIG9uIFZhbMOocmUgTm92YXJpbmE7IEVs ZW5pIFNpa2VsaWFub3Mgb24gT2xpdmllciBDYWRpb3Q7IERhd24tDQpNaWNoZWxsZSBCYXVk ZSBvbiBFc3RoZXIgVGVsbGVybWFubjsgUGV0ZXIgUmFtb3Mgb24gQW5uZS1NYXJpZSBBbGJp YWNoOyANCkp1ZGl0aCBCaXNob3Agb24gR8OpcmFyZCBNYWPDqTsgTGFpcmQgSHVudCBvbiBT ZXJnZSBGYXVjaGVyZWF1OyBDaHJpcyANCk1jRGVybW90dCBvbiBKZWFuIEZyw6ltb247IEtl dmluIENyYWZ0IG9uIENsYWlyZSBNYWxyb3V4OyBBbmRyZWEgU3RldmVucyBvbiANCkVtbWFu dWVsIE1vc2VzOyBQYXVsIEthbmUgb24gWXZlcyBCb25uZWZveTsgQ2hhZCBEYXZpZHNvbiBv biBKYWNxdWVzIFLDqWRhOyANCk1pY2hhZWwgRmFnZW5ibGF0IG9uIE1pY2hlbCBEZWd1eTsg SmFjcXVlcyBLaGFsaXAgb24gSmVhbi1NaWNoZWwgTWF1bHBvaXg7IA0KS3Jpc3RlbiBQcmV2 YWxsZXQgb24gVmFsw6lyaWUtQ2F0aGVyaW5lIFJpY2hleiwgTWFyaWUgQm9yZWwsICYgSXNh YmVsbGUgR2Fycm9uOyANCk5pY2hvbGFzIE1hbm5pbmcgb24gTWFyaWUgQm9yZWw7ICYgTWFy Y2VsbGEgRHVyYW5kIG9uIFBhc2NhbGxlIE1vbm5pZXIgJiANCkplYW4tTWljaGVsIEVzcGl0 YWxsaWVyLg0KDQoNClRoZSB0cmlwbGUgaXNzdWUgd2lsbCBiZSBsYXVuY2hlZCBpbiBQYXJp cyBpbiBsYXRlIE9jdG9iZXIuICBUbyBvcmRlciwgcGxlYXNlIHNlbmQgDQphIGNoZWNrLCBw YXlhYmxlIHRvICJWZXJzZSwiIHRvIEFuZHJldyBaYXdhY2tpOyBEZXBhcnRtZW50IG9mIEVu Z2xpc2g7IA0KVW5pdmVyc2l0eSBvZiBHZW9yZ2lhOyBBdGhlbnMsIEdBIDMwNjAyLiAgUHJp Y2UgcGVyIGNvcHk6ICQxNSAvIDEw4oKsIC8gwqM4Lg0KDQoNCkFuZHJldyBaYXdhY2tpDQpE ZXBhcnRtZW50IG9mIEVuZ2xpc2gvIFZFUlNFDQpVbml2ZXJzaXR5IG9mIEdlb3JnaWENCkF0 aGVucywgR2VvcmdpYSAzMDYwMg0KKDcwNikgNTQyLTM0MzQNCg== ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 09:29:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Condolences to Bob Holman and family Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed RIP Elizabeth Murray http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/13/arts/design/13murray.html? hp=&pagewanted=all Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 07:49:07 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: away, away, away from the sun In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit May I recommend to you a new movie called "Sunshine"? It's the best sci fi movie I've seen in many years. It's about a group of astronauts heading toward the sun to save it from imminent self-destruction by hitting it with an atomic payload the size of Manhattan island? It is a truly amazing film and not militaristic or pro-militaristic at all? If you're located in NYC, it is being shown at (where else? ) the Sunshine theater on Houston St. Regards, Tom Savage. By the way, I liked this poem. It has a certain added resonance after just having seen the movie. Alan Sondheim wrote: away, away, away from the sun away, away, away from the sun as if it were something of the light to shun the light, as if the light were something beyond what weather might cause it to bring further darkness, emanating rays disappearing against the length and breadth of days it was old kant who said beware of such phenomena that broil up against the space of noumena or rather there might be that arc of aristotle just before it decays into so much silly prattle so what are these rays but longing for the dark light fleeing light, the world turned stark and raving, mad and luminous, at a loss for light along the highways of the mind, the byways of delight http://www.asondheim.org/lightfleeing.jpg --------------------------------- Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 11:12:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: VERSE vol. 24, n=?iso-8859-1?Q?=B0?= 1-3 : French Poetry & Poetics In-Reply-To: <20070813102450.FVE04592@punts4.cc.uga.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Andrew: Can I assume that the French originals of the poems are included? Mark At 10:24 AM 8/13/2007, you wrote: >VERSE announces the release of volume 24, numbers 1-3: > >FRENCH POETRY & POETICS > >coedited by Abigail Lang & Andrew Zawacki. > > >TEXTS by Pierre Alferi, Marie Borel, Oscarine=20 >Bosquet, Olivier Cadiot, Suzanne >Doppelt, Caroline Dubois, Fr=C3=A9d=C3=A9ric Forte, Dominique Fourcade,= Jean Fr=C3=A9mon, >Michelle Grangaud, Emmanuel Hocquard, Philippe Jaccottet, Ian Monk, Anne >Parian, Anne Portugal, Jacqueline Risset, Jacques Roubaud, Claude Royet- >Journoud, S=C3=A9bastien Smirou, Christophe Tarkos, & B=C3=A9n=C3=A9dicte= Vilgrain. > >INTERVIEWS with Dominique Fourcade & Claude Royet-Journoud. > >ESSAYS by Craig Dworkin, Kevin Hart, & Jean-Jacques Poucel. > >TRANSLATORS for the issue are Guy Bennett,=20 >Judith Bishop, Beverley Bie Brahic, >Peter Consenstein, Jennifer Dick, Steve Evans, Micaela Kramer, Anna >Moschovakis, Jennifer Moxley, Sarah Riggs, Eleni=20 >Sikelianos, Cole Swensen, Keith >Waldrop, Rosmarie Waldrop, Chet Wiener, & Andrew Zawacki. > >BOOK REVIEWS: > >Timothy Donnelly on St=C3=A9phane Mallarm=C3=A9; Tom Thompson on Charles= Baudelaire; >Michael Heller on Edmond Jab=C3=A8s; Ted Pearson on John Grosjean; Nathalie >Stephens on B=C3=A9atrice Mousli; Rusty Morrison on Claude Royet-Journoud; >Beverley Bie Brahic on Jacques Roubaud; Eduardo Cadava on Suzanne Doppelt; >Antoine Caz=C3=A9 on Val=C3=A8re Novarina; Eleni Sikelianos on Olivier= Cadiot; Dawn- >Michelle Baude on Esther Tellermann; Peter Ramos on Anne-Marie Albiach; >Judith Bishop on G=C3=A9rard Mac=C3=A9; Laird Hunt on Serge Fauchereau;= Chris >McDermott on Jean Fr=C3=A9mon; Kevin Craft on Claire Malroux; Andrea= Stevens on >Emmanuel Moses; Paul Kane on Yves Bonnefoy; Chad Davidson on Jacques R=C3= =A9da; >Michael Fagenblat on Michel Deguy; Jacques Khalip on Jean-Michel Maulpoix; >Kristen Prevallet on Val=C3=A9rie-Catherine Richez,=20 >Marie Borel, & Isabelle Garron; >Nicholas Manning on Marie Borel; & Marcella Durand on Pascalle Monnier & >Jean-Michel Espitallier. > > >The triple issue will be launched in Paris in=20 >late October. To order, please send >a check, payable to "Verse," to Andrew Zawacki; Department of English; >University of Georgia; Athens, GA 30602. Price per copy: $15 / 10=80 /= =C2=A38. > > >Andrew Zawacki >DDepartment of English/ VERSE >University of Georgia >Athens, Georgia 30602 >(706) 542-3434 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 08:15:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: Condolences to Bob Holman and family In-Reply-To: <9344CEE8-2A47-43B4-8D04-58F2DE2335DC@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit To which I add my won. Elizabeth Murray was a great painter and a beautiful, generous person. She will be missed in many worlds. Regards, Tom Savage Halvard Johnson wrote: RIP Elizabeth Murray http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/13/arts/design/13murray.html? hp=&pagewanted=all Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html --------------------------------- Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 10:21:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: CA Conrad Subject: Re: on hearing of the American soldiers refusing to return to America after Iraq MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Stephen thank you so much for that article about Gary Lawless's poetry workshops for veterans. With some embarrassment I admit that I was angry by Dana Gioia's decision a few years ago to create funding at the NEA for Iraq veterans to write their memoirs. Of course Gioia was also CUTTING funding to all kinds of other organizations at the time, which helped fuel my anger. But I also am one of the only men in my family to not be in the military, and I have great disdain for the men of my family who are some of the most brutal human beings I've ever known. But having been exposed to the stories of Iraq war veterans it's very clear to me that this war is very different in many ways, and no one could possibly document it better than the soldiers themselves. And no one could help us end this war than these veterans. And I'm sure they have far more to tell us than the daily horrors of the war. What do these soldiers have to say for instance about the private armies and other corporate interests? Presidential candidate (he has my vote!) Dennis Kucinich says (and he is the ONLY one saying such things) that "Iraq has become the world's best example of privatization." CAConrad http://PhillySound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 09:26:20 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jennifer Karmin Subject: Red Rover Series / Experiment #15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Red Rover Series {readings that play with reading} Experiment #15: Devotion to the Word Featuring: Zach Barocas Joel Bettridge Lisa Janssen 7pm Monday, August 20th suggested donation $3 at the SpareRoom 4100 W. Grand Ave -- Chicago, IL NEW LOCATION close to Grand & Pulaski in the American Stencil Company building 2nd floor, suite 210-212 http://www.spareroomchicago.org ZACH BAROCAS is a musician and poet who lives in Minneapolis with his wife Kimberley Yurkiewicz. He is The Cultural Society's founding editor & publisher. His first book, Among Other Things, is available through The Cultural Society. http://www.culturalsociety.org JOEL BETTRIDGE's first book of poems, That Abrupt Here, was published by The Cultural Society, and he is currently editing a collection of essays on Ronald Johnson for the National Poetry Foundation's Life and Work series. He teaches at Portland State University. LISA JANSSEN is a poet and archivist living in Chicago, Illinois. Her work has appeared in such journals as Colorado North Review, Bombay Gin, WSQ – Women’s Studies Quarterly, and Dusie. She has a new chapbook, Riffing on Bird and Other Sad Songs out from the Dusie Press Kollective. She is a graduate of the Naropa University writing program and currently co-edits the journal MoonLit. Red Rover Series is curated by Amina Cain and Jennifer Karmin. Founded in 2005, each Red Rover event is designed as a reading experiment with participation by local, national, and international writers, artists, and performers. Email ideas for reading experiments to us at redroverseries@yahoogroups.com The schedule for upcoming events is listed at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/redroverseries The SpareRoom is Chicago's time-arts cooperative. Our space gives a community of artists the opportunity to rehearse, perform, exhibit, and develop work on their own terms. Our Make Work program provides use of the space for interdisciplinary events and workshops: performance art, film, video, readings, dance, theater, installation, experimental sound and more. Contact: spareroominfo@yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 12:30:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: susan maurer Subject: FW: My consulting description Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed amy is great at helping people get published. susan maurer >From: "Amy Holman" >Reply-To: aocean63@earthlink.net >To: "Susan Maurer" >Subject: My consulting description >Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 03:08:13 -0400 > >Hi, Susan, >nice to talk to you this evening. Thank you for offering to let the Buffalo >Litserve know about me. Here's an easy pitch: >Amy Holman helps poets find the best magazines and presses for their poetry >by matching writing style to editorial interests. Check out her web site at >www.amyholman.com or contact her directly, at aocean63@earthlink.net. >Thanks, >Amy _________________________________________________________________ Booking a flight? Know when to buy with airfare predictions on MSN Travel. http://travel.msn.com/Articles/aboutfarecast.aspx&ocid=T001MSN25A07001 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 10:04:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Site Correction!:Chris Sullivan in New Orleans Comments: cc: UK POETRY , "Poetryetc: poetry and poetics" Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Light Factory is in Chalotte, NC not Charleston, SC. In case you have lost sight/site of Chris Sullivan (poet, photographer and song maker) he continues to live in post-Katrina New Orleans where he makes careful record of the catastrophic tragicomic particulars to be found there. His website is: http://8letters.blogspot.com Chris's visual collection of over one hundred refugee basketballs, Poboy signage and 'underperforming billboards' becomes a visit to an underworld (a macro-mirror of the 'disappeared'.) The Federal Gov's continued complicity with Katrina to make permanent the urban removal of a population of the poor is more than self-evident. If you are in Charlotte, NC (not Charleston), Chris Sullivan's work is on exhibit at the Light Factory. Details: http://lightfactory.org Stephen V http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 10:21:08 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: ever since the 3rd anniversary of our American invasion of Iraq In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Some will hate to tell you, Conrad, what hair conditioners are doing to poison the Global, including the American landscape: the water supply, rivers, oceans, etc. I have a suspicions that 'biodegradable' as a term is as suspect as 'organic' or 'free range' these days! To go bald may be more ecological and - in some traditions - penitent and/or reverential of 'right actions' in a time of war. With and in total respect for your outrage. I hope or recommend that folks here read the Jane Mayer essay in last week's New Yorker on 'The Black Sites' (i.e., CIA run torture chambers in foreign countries). Impossible to read it, I think, without a gut response that the perpetrators and policy makers behind the torture will need to be brought to justice - no doubt by International courts - if this country is going to ever regain a moral and democratic center. Otherwise, similar to the effect of the growing black waters in the artic - that cannot reflect the sun back from melting down the Artic ice cap and gradually raising the waters over us - at least on the coasts - the rule of law and institutions in this country will face a total meltdown. Poetry - as a public act - will either be activist or nostalgia. Stephen V http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ > Being with this hair keeps me in check, keeps me angry, > keeps me mournful, keeps me far FAR FAR from sentimentality and other > stupidities, and sets me down in the middle of this breathtaking landscape > of American denial. > > This hair will not be cut until we are out of Iraq. And my friends keep > asking what that means exactly. Does it mean when our soldiers are out? Or > when the war itself is over? Or? Or peace? Or? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 13:39:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Zawacki Subject: Re: VERSE vol. 24, n=?iso-8859-1?Q?=B0?= 1-3 : French Poetry & Poetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 TWFyaywNCg0KVGhlIEZyZW5jaCBvcmlnaW5hbHMgYXJlIG5vdCBpbmNsdWRlZCwgdW5mb3J0 dW5hdGVseTsgYWxyZWFkeSBhdCAzNTArIHBhZ2VzLCB0aGUgDQppc3N1ZSB3b3VsZCBoYXZl IGJlY29tZSBwcm9oaWJpdGl2ZWx5IGV4cGVuc2l2ZSB0byBwcmludCBhbmQgZGlzdHJpYnV0 ZS4NCg0KQW5kcmV3DQoNCg0KLS0tLSBPcmlnaW5hbCBtZXNzYWdlIC0tLS0NCj5EYXRlOiBN b24sIDEzIEF1ZyAyMDA3IDExOjEyOjQ3IC0wNDAwDQo+RnJvbTogTWFyayBXZWlzcyA8anVu Y3Rpb25ARUFSVEhMSU5LLk5FVD4gIA0KPlN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBWRVJTRSB2b2wuIDI0LCBu wrAgMS0zIDogRnJlbmNoIFBvZXRyeSAmIFBvZXRpY3MgIA0KPlRvOiBQT0VUSUNTQExJU1RT RVJWLkJVRkZBTE8uRURVDQo+DQo+QW5kcmV3OiBDYW4gSSBhc3N1bWUgdGhhdCB0aGUgRnJl bmNoIG9yaWdpbmFscyBvZiB0aGUgcG9lbXMgYXJlIGluY2x1ZGVkPw0KPg0KPk1hcmsNCj4N Cj5BdCAxMDoyNCBBTSA4LzEzLzIwMDcsIHlvdSB3cm90ZToNCj4+VkVSU0UgYW5ub3VuY2Vz IHRoZSByZWxlYXNlIG9mIHZvbHVtZSAyNCwgbnVtYmVycyAxLTM6DQo+Pg0KPj5GUkVOQ0gg UE9FVFJZICYgUE9FVElDUw0KPj4NCj4+Y29lZGl0ZWQgYnkgQWJpZ2FpbCBMYW5nICYgQW5k cmV3IFphd2Fja2kuDQo+Pg0KPj4NCj4+VEVYVFMgYnkgUGllcnJlIEFsZmVyaSwgTWFyaWUg Qm9yZWwsIE9zY2FyaW5lIA0KPj5Cb3NxdWV0LCBPbGl2aWVyIENhZGlvdCwgU3V6YW5uZQ0K Pj5Eb3BwZWx0LCBDYXJvbGluZSBEdWJvaXMsIEZyw4PCqWTDg8KpcmljIEZvcnRlLCBEb21p bmlxdWUgRm91cmNhZGUsIEplYW4gDQpGcsODwqltb24sDQo+Pk1pY2hlbGxlIEdyYW5nYXVk LCBFbW1hbnVlbCBIb2NxdWFyZCwgUGhpbGlwcGUgSmFjY290dGV0LCBJYW4gTW9uaywgQW5u ZQ0KPj5QYXJpYW4sIEFubmUgUG9ydHVnYWwsIEphY3F1ZWxpbmUgUmlzc2V0LCBKYWNxdWVz IFJvdWJhdWQsIENsYXVkZSBSb3lldC0NCj4+Sm91cm5vdWQsIFPDg8KpYmFzdGllbiBTbWly b3UsIENocmlzdG9waGUgVGFya29zLCAmIELDg8KpbsODwqlkaWN0ZSBWaWxncmFpbi4NCj4+ DQo+PklOVEVSVklFV1Mgd2l0aCBEb21pbmlxdWUgRm91cmNhZGUgJiBDbGF1ZGUgUm95ZXQt Sm91cm5vdWQuDQo+Pg0KPj5FU1NBWVMgYnkgQ3JhaWcgRHdvcmtpbiwgS2V2aW4gSGFydCwg JiBKZWFuLUphY3F1ZXMgUG91Y2VsLg0KPj4NCj4+VFJBTlNMQVRPUlMgZm9yIHRoZSBpc3N1 ZSBhcmUgR3V5IEJlbm5ldHQsIA0KPj5KdWRpdGggQmlzaG9wLCBCZXZlcmxleSBCaWUgQnJh aGljLA0KPj5QZXRlciBDb25zZW5zdGVpbiwgSmVubmlmZXIgRGljaywgU3RldmUgRXZhbnMs IE1pY2FlbGEgS3JhbWVyLCBBbm5hDQo+Pk1vc2Nob3Zha2lzLCBKZW5uaWZlciBNb3hsZXks IFNhcmFoIFJpZ2dzLCBFbGVuaSANCj4+U2lrZWxpYW5vcywgQ29sZSBTd2Vuc2VuLCBLZWl0 aA0KPj5XYWxkcm9wLCBSb3NtYXJpZSBXYWxkcm9wLCBDaGV0IFdpZW5lciwgJiBBbmRyZXcg WmF3YWNraS4NCj4+DQo+PkJPT0sgUkVWSUVXUzoNCj4+DQo+PlRpbW90aHkgRG9ubmVsbHkg b24gU3TDg8KpcGhhbmUgTWFsbGFybcODwqk7IFRvbSBUaG9tcHNvbiBvbiBDaGFybGVzIA0K QmF1ZGVsYWlyZTsNCj4+TWljaGFlbCBIZWxsZXIgb24gRWRtb25kIEphYsODwqhzOyBUZWQg UGVhcnNvbiBvbiBKb2huIEdyb3NqZWFuOyBOYXRoYWxpZQ0KPj5TdGVwaGVucyBvbiBCw4PC qWF0cmljZSBNb3VzbGk7IFJ1c3R5IE1vcnJpc29uIG9uIENsYXVkZSBSb3lldC1Kb3Vybm91 ZDsNCj4+QmV2ZXJsZXkgQmllIEJyYWhpYyBvbiBKYWNxdWVzIFJvdWJhdWQ7IEVkdWFyZG8g Q2FkYXZhIG9uIFN1emFubmUgDQpEb3BwZWx0Ow0KPj5BbnRvaW5lIENhesODwqkgb24gVmFs w4PCqHJlIE5vdmFyaW5hOyBFbGVuaSBTaWtlbGlhbm9zIG9uIE9saXZpZXIgQ2FkaW90OyAN CkRhd24tDQo+Pk1pY2hlbGxlIEJhdWRlIG9uIEVzdGhlciBUZWxsZXJtYW5uOyBQZXRlciBS YW1vcyBvbiBBbm5lLU1hcmllIEFsYmlhY2g7DQo+Pkp1ZGl0aCBCaXNob3Agb24gR8ODwqly YXJkIE1hY8ODwqk7IExhaXJkIEh1bnQgb24gU2VyZ2UgRmF1Y2hlcmVhdTsgQ2hyaXMNCj4+ TWNEZXJtb3R0IG9uIEplYW4gRnLDg8KpbW9uOyBLZXZpbiBDcmFmdCBvbiBDbGFpcmUgTWFs cm91eDsgQW5kcmVhIFN0ZXZlbnMgDQpvbg0KPj5FbW1hbnVlbCBNb3NlczsgUGF1bCBLYW5l IG9uIFl2ZXMgQm9ubmVmb3k7IENoYWQgRGF2aWRzb24gb24gSmFjcXVlcyANClLDg8KpZGE7 DQo+Pk1pY2hhZWwgRmFnZW5ibGF0IG9uIE1pY2hlbCBEZWd1eTsgSmFjcXVlcyBLaGFsaXAg b24gSmVhbi1NaWNoZWwgTWF1bHBvaXg7DQo+PktyaXN0ZW4gUHJldmFsbGV0IG9uIFZhbMOD wqlyaWUtQ2F0aGVyaW5lIFJpY2hleiwgDQo+Pk1hcmllIEJvcmVsLCAmIElzYWJlbGxlIEdh cnJvbjsNCj4+TmljaG9sYXMgTWFubmluZyBvbiBNYXJpZSBCb3JlbDsgJiBNYXJjZWxsYSBE dXJhbmQgb24gUGFzY2FsbGUgTW9ubmllciAmDQo+PkplYW4tTWljaGVsIEVzcGl0YWxsaWVy Lg0KPj4NCj4+DQo+PlRoZSB0cmlwbGUgaXNzdWUgd2lsbCBiZSBsYXVuY2hlZCBpbiBQYXJp cyBpbiANCj4+bGF0ZSBPY3RvYmVyLiAgVG8gb3JkZXIsIHBsZWFzZSBzZW5kDQo+PmEgY2hl Y2ssIHBheWFibGUgdG8gIlZlcnNlLCIgdG8gQW5kcmV3IFphd2Fja2k7IERlcGFydG1lbnQg b2YgRW5nbGlzaDsNCj4+VW5pdmVyc2l0eSBvZiBHZW9yZ2lhOyBBdGhlbnMsIEdBIDMwNjAy LiAgUHJpY2UgcGVyIGNvcHk6ICQxNSAvIDEw4oKsIC8gw4LCozguDQo+Pg0KPj4NCj4+QW5k cmV3IFphd2Fja2kNCj4+RERlcGFydG1lbnQgb2YgRW5nbGlzaC8gVkVSU0UNCj4+VW5pdmVy c2l0eSBvZiBHZW9yZ2lhDQo+PkF0aGVucywgR2VvcmdpYSAzMDYwMg0KPj4oNzA2KSA1NDIt MzQzNA0KDQoNCkFuZHJldyBaYXdhY2tpDQpEZXBhcnRtZW50IG9mIEVuZ2xpc2gvIFZFUlNF DQpVbml2ZXJzaXR5IG9mIEdlb3JnaWENCkF0aGVucywgR2VvcmdpYSAzMDYwMg0KKDcwNikg NTQyLTM0MzQNCg== ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 14:04:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: ever since the 3rd anniversary of our American invasion of Iraq In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit right on, as we said eons ago hard to know where to give one's time & resources these days! animal rights is related to all of what you write about. esp factory farming. guess I'd better look into my hair conditioner. ruth On 8/13/07 1:21 PM, "Stephen Vincent" wrote: > Some will hate to tell you, Conrad, what hair conditioners are doing to > poison the Global, including the American landscape: the water supply, > rivers, oceans, etc. I have a suspicions that 'biodegradable' as a term is > as suspect as 'organic' or 'free range' these days! > > To go bald may be more ecological and - in some traditions - penitent and/or > reverential of 'right actions' in a time of war. > > With and in total respect for your outrage. > > I hope or recommend that folks here read the Jane Mayer essay in last week's > New Yorker on 'The Black Sites' (i.e., CIA run torture chambers in foreign > countries). Impossible to read it, I think, without a gut response that the > perpetrators and policy makers behind the torture will need to be brought to > justice - no doubt by International courts - if this country is going to > ever regain a moral and democratic center. > > Otherwise, similar to the effect of the growing black waters in the artic - > that cannot reflect the sun back from melting down the Artic ice cap and > gradually raising the waters over us - at least on the coasts - the rule of > law and institutions in this country will face a total meltdown. > > Poetry - as a public act - will either be activist or nostalgia. > > Stephen V > http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ > > > > > > >> Being with this hair keeps me in check, keeps me angry, >> keeps me mournful, keeps me far FAR FAR from sentimentality and other >> stupidities, and sets me down in the middle of this breathtaking landscape >> of American denial. >> >> This hair will not be cut until we are out of Iraq. And my friends keep >> asking what that means exactly. Does it mean when our soldiers are out? Or >> when the war itself is over? Or? Or peace? Or? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 11:22:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Diane DiPrima Subject: Re: VERSE vol. 24, n=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=B0?= 1-3 : French Poetry & Poetics In-Reply-To: <20070813133950.FVH06018@punts4.cc.uga.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Mark, Thank you for asking that important question. For me, whether or not a book of translation is bilingual is a primary concern. Whether or not I know the language. Didn't that information used to be included more frequently than it is now? It's even left out of most reviews. One wants to know. Diane di Prima > From: Andrew Zawacki > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 13:39:50 -0400 > To: > Subject: Re: VERSE vol. 24, n=C2=B0 1-3 : French Poetry & Poetics >=20 > Mark, >=20 > The French originals are not included, unfortunately; already at 350+ pag= es, > the=20 > issue would have become prohibitively expensive to print and distribute. >=20 > Andrew >=20 >=20 > ---- Original message ---- >> Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 11:12:47 -0400 >> From: Mark Weiss >> Subject: Re: VERSE vol. 24, n=C2=B0 1-3 : French Poetry & Poetics >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>=20 >> Andrew: Can I assume that the French originals of the poems are included= ? >>=20 >> Mark >>=20 >> At 10:24 AM 8/13/2007, you wrote: >>> VERSE announces the release of volume 24, numbers 1-3: >>>=20 >>> FRENCH POETRY & POETICS >>>=20 >>> coedited by Abigail Lang & Andrew Zawacki. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> TEXTS by Pierre Alferi, Marie Borel, Oscarine >>> Bosquet, Olivier Cadiot, Suzanne >>> Doppelt, Caroline Dubois, Fr=C3=83=C2=A9d=C3=83=C2=A9ric Forte, Dominique Fourcade, Jea= n > Fr=C3=83=C2=A9mon, >>> Michelle Grangaud, Emmanuel Hocquard, Philippe Jaccottet, Ian Monk, Ann= e >>> Parian, Anne Portugal, Jacqueline Risset, Jacques Roubaud, Claude Royet= - >>> Journoud, S=C3=83=C2=A9bastien Smirou, Christophe Tarkos, & B=C3=83=C2=A9n=C3=83=C2=A9dicte Vil= grain. >>>=20 >>> INTERVIEWS with Dominique Fourcade & Claude Royet-Journoud. >>>=20 >>> ESSAYS by Craig Dworkin, Kevin Hart, & Jean-Jacques Poucel. >>>=20 >>> TRANSLATORS for the issue are Guy Bennett, >>> Judith Bishop, Beverley Bie Brahic, >>> Peter Consenstein, Jennifer Dick, Steve Evans, Micaela Kramer, Anna >>> Moschovakis, Jennifer Moxley, Sarah Riggs, Eleni >>> Sikelianos, Cole Swensen, Keith >>> Waldrop, Rosmarie Waldrop, Chet Wiener, & Andrew Zawacki. >>>=20 >>> BOOK REVIEWS: >>>=20 >>> Timothy Donnelly on St=C3=83=C2=A9phane Mallarm=C3=83=C2=A9; Tom Thompson on Charles > Baudelaire; >>> Michael Heller on Edmond Jab=C3=83=C2=A8s; Ted Pearson on John Grosjean; Nathal= ie >>> Stephens on B=C3=83=C2=A9atrice Mousli; Rusty Morrison on Claude Royet-Journoud= ; >>> Beverley Bie Brahic on Jacques Roubaud; Eduardo Cadava on Suzanne > Doppelt; >>> Antoine Caz=C3=83=C2=A9 on Val=C3=83=C2=A8re Novarina; Eleni Sikelianos on Olivier Cadi= ot; > Dawn- >>> Michelle Baude on Esther Tellermann; Peter Ramos on Anne-Marie Albiach; >>> Judith Bishop on G=C3=83=C2=A9rard Mac=C3=83=C2=A9; Laird Hunt on Serge Fauchereau; Chr= is >>> McDermott on Jean Fr=C3=83=C2=A9mon; Kevin Craft on Claire Malroux; Andrea Stev= ens > on >>> Emmanuel Moses; Paul Kane on Yves Bonnefoy; Chad Davidson on Jacques > R=C3=83=C2=A9da; >>> Michael Fagenblat on Michel Deguy; Jacques Khalip on Jean-Michel Maulpo= ix; >>> Kristen Prevallet on Val=C3=83=C2=A9rie-Catherine Richez, >>> Marie Borel, & Isabelle Garron; >>> Nicholas Manning on Marie Borel; & Marcella Durand on Pascalle Monnier = & >>> Jean-Michel Espitallier. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> The triple issue will be launched in Paris in >>> late October. To order, please send >>> a check, payable to "Verse," to Andrew Zawacki; Department of English; >>> University of Georgia; Athens, GA 30602. Price per copy: $15 / 10=E2=82=AC /= =C3=82=C2=A38. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Andrew Zawacki >>> DDepartment of English/ VERSE >>> University of Georgia >>> Athens, Georgia 30602 >>> (706) 542-3434 >=20 >=20 > Andrew Zawacki > Department of English/ VERSE > University of Georgia > Athens, Georgia 30602 > (706) 542-3434 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 14:11:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William James Austin Subject: Re: Condolences to Bob Holman and family In-Reply-To: <996264.58516.qm@web31112.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Please?accept my own sincere condolences and best wishes, Bob.? Best, Bill -----Original Message----- From: Thomas savage To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 11:15 am Subject: Re: Condolences to Bob Holman and family To which I add my won. Elizabeth Murray was a great painter and a beautiful, generous person. She will be missed in many worlds. Regards, Tom Savage Halvard Johnson wrote: RIP Elizabeth Murray http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/13/arts/design/13murray.html? hp=&pagewanted=all Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html --------------------------------- Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 11:38:02 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Kasimor Subject: Re: ever since the 3rd anniversary of our American invasion of Iraq In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit And another issue that is near and dear to my heart--the incarceration of poor people and people of color in this country. I just finished reading an article (actually book reviews) in The Nation. It is mind boggling to me that so many Americans believe that we are the greatest country in the world. Certainly I don't think that we can claim that title now, and I wonder if we have ever been as great as we claim to be. Mary Kasimor Ruth Lepson wrote: right on, as we said eons ago hard to know where to give one's time & resources these days! animal rights is related to all of what you write about. esp factory farming. guess I'd better look into my hair conditioner. ruth On 8/13/07 1:21 PM, "Stephen Vincent" wrote: > Some will hate to tell you, Conrad, what hair conditioners are doing to > poison the Global, including the American landscape: the water supply, > rivers, oceans, etc. I have a suspicions that 'biodegradable' as a term is > as suspect as 'organic' or 'free range' these days! > > To go bald may be more ecological and - in some traditions - penitent and/or > reverential of 'right actions' in a time of war. > > With and in total respect for your outrage. > > I hope or recommend that folks here read the Jane Mayer essay in last week's > New Yorker on 'The Black Sites' (i.e., CIA run torture chambers in foreign > countries). Impossible to read it, I think, without a gut response that the > perpetrators and policy makers behind the torture will need to be brought to > justice - no doubt by International courts - if this country is going to > ever regain a moral and democratic center. > > Otherwise, similar to the effect of the growing black waters in the artic - > that cannot reflect the sun back from melting down the Artic ice cap and > gradually raising the waters over us - at least on the coasts - the rule of > law and institutions in this country will face a total meltdown. > > Poetry - as a public act - will either be activist or nostalgia. > > Stephen V > http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ > > > > > > >> Being with this hair keeps me in check, keeps me angry, >> keeps me mournful, keeps me far FAR FAR from sentimentality and other >> stupidities, and sets me down in the middle of this breathtaking landscape >> of American denial. >> >> This hair will not be cut until we are out of Iraq. And my friends keep >> asking what that means exactly. Does it mean when our soldiers are out? Or >> when the war itself is over? Or? Or peace? Or? --------------------------------- Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 14:42:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: VERSE vol. 24, n=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=B0?= 1-3 : French Poetry & Poetics In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Diane di Prma, It's great to read yr posts since I have always thought you are a vastly underappreciated poet--of course many do love your poetry but still... Good to have you with us, Ruth L. On 8/13/07 2:22 PM, "Diane DiPrima" wrote: > Mark, >=20 > Thank you for asking that important question. For me, whether or not a bo= ok > of translation is bilingual is a primary concern. Whether or not I know t= he > language. Didn't that information used to be included more frequently tha= n > it is now? It's even left out of most reviews. One wants to know. >=20 > Diane di Prima >=20 >=20 >> From: Andrew Zawacki >> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >> Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 13:39:50 -0400 >> To: >> Subject: Re: VERSE vol. 24, n=C2=B0 1-3 : French Poetry & Poetics >>=20 >> Mark, >>=20 >> The French originals are not included, unfortunately; already at 350+ pa= ges, >> the=20 >> issue would have become prohibitively expensive to print and distribute. >>=20 >> Andrew >>=20 >>=20 >> ---- Original message ---- >>> Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 11:12:47 -0400 >>> From: Mark Weiss >>> Subject: Re: VERSE vol. 24, n=C2=B0 1-3 : French Poetry & Poetics >>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>>=20 >>> Andrew: Can I assume that the French originals of the poems are include= d? >>>=20 >>> Mark >>>=20 >>> At 10:24 AM 8/13/2007, you wrote: >>>> VERSE announces the release of volume 24, numbers 1-3: >>>>=20 >>>> FRENCH POETRY & POETICS >>>>=20 >>>> coedited by Abigail Lang & Andrew Zawacki. >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> TEXTS by Pierre Alferi, Marie Borel, Oscarine >>>> Bosquet, Olivier Cadiot, Suzanne >>>> Doppelt, Caroline Dubois, Fr=C3=83=C2=A9d=C3=83=C2=A9ric Forte, Dominique Fourcade, Je= an >> Fr=C3=83=C2=A9mon, >>>> Michelle Grangaud, Emmanuel Hocquard, Philippe Jaccottet, Ian Monk, An= ne >>>> Parian, Anne Portugal, Jacqueline Risset, Jacques Roubaud, Claude Roye= t- >>>> Journoud, S=C3=83=C2=A9bastien Smirou, Christophe Tarkos, & B=C3=83=C2=A9n=C3=83=C2=A9dicte Vi= lgrain. >>>>=20 >>>> INTERVIEWS with Dominique Fourcade & Claude Royet-Journoud. >>>>=20 >>>> ESSAYS by Craig Dworkin, Kevin Hart, & Jean-Jacques Poucel. >>>>=20 >>>> TRANSLATORS for the issue are Guy Bennett, >>>> Judith Bishop, Beverley Bie Brahic, >>>> Peter Consenstein, Jennifer Dick, Steve Evans, Micaela Kramer, Anna >>>> Moschovakis, Jennifer Moxley, Sarah Riggs, Eleni >>>> Sikelianos, Cole Swensen, Keith >>>> Waldrop, Rosmarie Waldrop, Chet Wiener, & Andrew Zawacki. >>>>=20 >>>> BOOK REVIEWS: >>>>=20 >>>> Timothy Donnelly on St=C3=83=C2=A9phane Mallarm=C3=83=C2=A9; Tom Thompson on Charles >> Baudelaire; >>>> Michael Heller on Edmond Jab=C3=83=C2=A8s; Ted Pearson on John Grosjean; Natha= lie >>>> Stephens on B=C3=83=C2=A9atrice Mousli; Rusty Morrison on Claude Royet-Journou= d; >>>> Beverley Bie Brahic on Jacques Roubaud; Eduardo Cadava on Suzanne >> Doppelt; >>>> Antoine Caz=C3=83=C2=A9 on Val=C3=83=C2=A8re Novarina; Eleni Sikelianos on Olivier Cad= iot; >> Dawn- >>>> Michelle Baude on Esther Tellermann; Peter Ramos on Anne-Marie Albiach= ; >>>> Judith Bishop on G=C3=83=C2=A9rard Mac=C3=83=C2=A9; Laird Hunt on Serge Fauchereau; Ch= ris >>>> McDermott on Jean Fr=C3=83=C2=A9mon; Kevin Craft on Claire Malroux; Andrea Ste= vens >> on >>>> Emmanuel Moses; Paul Kane on Yves Bonnefoy; Chad Davidson on Jacques >> R=C3=83=C2=A9da; >>>> Michael Fagenblat on Michel Deguy; Jacques Khalip on Jean-Michel Maulp= oix; >>>> Kristen Prevallet on Val=C3=83=C2=A9rie-Catherine Richez, >>>> Marie Borel, & Isabelle Garron; >>>> Nicholas Manning on Marie Borel; & Marcella Durand on Pascalle Monnier= & >>>> Jean-Michel Espitallier. >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> The triple issue will be launched in Paris in >>>> late October. To order, please send >>>> a check, payable to "Verse," to Andrew Zawacki; Department of English; >>>> University of Georgia; Athens, GA 30602. Price per copy: $15 / 10=E2=82=AC = / =C3=82=C2=A38. >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Andrew Zawacki >>>> DDepartment of English/ VERSE >>>> University of Georgia >>>> Athens, Georgia 30602 >>>> (706) 542-3434 >>=20 >>=20 >> Andrew Zawacki >> Department of English/ VERSE >> University of Georgia >> Athens, Georgia 30602 >> (706) 542-3434 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 16:17:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cris cheek Subject: Re: ever since the 3rd anniversary of our American invasion of Iraq In-Reply-To: <355987.33978.qm@web51811.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline u might find his of interest straying from Poetics list core discussion no doubt but . . . http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2147617,00.html US has dropped from 1th to 42 place in terms of life age expectancy in the past 20 years i wonder why? On 8/13/07, Mary Kasimor wrote: > > And another issue that is near and dear to my heart--the incarceration of > poor people and people of color in this country. I just finished reading an > article (actually book reviews) in The Nation. It is mind boggling to me > that so many Americans believe that we are the greatest country in the > world. Certainly I don't think that we can claim that title now, and I > wonder if we have ever been as great as we claim to be. > > Mary Kasimor > > Ruth Lepson wrote: > right on, as we said eons ago > hard to know where to give one's time & resources these days! > animal rights is related to all of what you write about. esp factory > farming. > guess I'd better look into my hair conditioner. > ruth > > > On 8/13/07 1:21 PM, "Stephen Vincent" wrote: > > > Some will hate to tell you, Conrad, what hair conditioners are doing to > > poison the Global, including the American landscape: the water supply, > > rivers, oceans, etc. I have a suspicions that 'biodegradable' as a term > is > > as suspect as 'organic' or 'free range' these days! > > > > To go bald may be more ecological and - in some traditions - penitent > and/or > > reverential of 'right actions' in a time of war. > > > > With and in total respect for your outrage. > > > > I hope or recommend that folks here read the Jane Mayer essay in last > week's > > New Yorker on 'The Black Sites' (i.e., CIA run torture chambers in > foreign > > countries). Impossible to read it, I think, without a gut response that > the > > perpetrators and policy makers behind the torture will need to be > brought to > > justice - no doubt by International courts - if this country is going to > > ever regain a moral and democratic center. > > > > Otherwise, similar to the effect of the growing black waters in the > artic - > > that cannot reflect the sun back from melting down the Artic ice cap and > > gradually raising the waters over us - at least on the coasts - the rule > of > > law and institutions in this country will face a total meltdown. > > > > Poetry - as a public act - will either be activist or nostalgia. > > > > Stephen V > > http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Being with this hair keeps me in check, keeps me angry, > >> keeps me mournful, keeps me far FAR FAR from sentimentality and other > >> stupidities, and sets me down in the middle of this breathtaking > landscape > >> of American denial. > >> > >> This hair will not be cut until we are out of Iraq. And my friends keep > >> asking what that means exactly. Does it mean when our soldiers are out? > Or > >> when the war itself is over? Or? Or peace? Or? > > > > --------------------------------- > Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! > TV. > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 16:27:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: ever since the 3rd anniversary of our American invasion of Iraq In-Reply-To: <355987.33978.qm@web51811.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit yes, much cruelty there. On 8/13/07 2:38 PM, "Mary Kasimor" wrote: > And another issue that is near and dear to my heart--the incarceration of poor > people and people of color in this country. I just finished reading an article > (actually book reviews) in The Nation. It is mind boggling to me that so many > Americans believe that we are the greatest country in the world. Certainly I > don't think that we can claim that title now, and I wonder if we have ever > been as great as we claim to be. > > Mary Kasimor > > Ruth Lepson wrote: > right on, as we said eons ago > hard to know where to give one's time & resources these days! > animal rights is related to all of what you write about. esp factory > farming. > guess I'd better look into my hair conditioner. > ruth > > > On 8/13/07 1:21 PM, "Stephen Vincent" wrote: > >> Some will hate to tell you, Conrad, what hair conditioners are doing to >> poison the Global, including the American landscape: the water supply, >> rivers, oceans, etc. I have a suspicions that 'biodegradable' as a term is >> as suspect as 'organic' or 'free range' these days! >> >> To go bald may be more ecological and - in some traditions - penitent and/or >> reverential of 'right actions' in a time of war. >> >> With and in total respect for your outrage. >> >> I hope or recommend that folks here read the Jane Mayer essay in last week's >> New Yorker on 'The Black Sites' (i.e., CIA run torture chambers in foreign >> countries). Impossible to read it, I think, without a gut response that the >> perpetrators and policy makers behind the torture will need to be brought to >> justice - no doubt by International courts - if this country is going to >> ever regain a moral and democratic center. >> >> Otherwise, similar to the effect of the growing black waters in the artic - >> that cannot reflect the sun back from melting down the Artic ice cap and >> gradually raising the waters over us - at least on the coasts - the rule of >> law and institutions in this country will face a total meltdown. >> >> Poetry - as a public act - will either be activist or nostalgia. >> >> Stephen V >> http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Being with this hair keeps me in check, keeps me angry, >>> keeps me mournful, keeps me far FAR FAR from sentimentality and other >>> stupidities, and sets me down in the middle of this breathtaking landscape >>> of American denial. >>> >>> This hair will not be cut until we are out of Iraq. And my friends keep >>> asking what that means exactly. Does it mean when our soldiers are out? Or >>> when the war itself is over? Or? Or peace? Or? > > > > --------------------------------- > Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 15:27:41 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: Re: ever since the 3rd anniversary of our American invasion of Iraq In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable that's 11th, not 1th/1st, place...=20 still, it's a precipitous drop -- time for a national reevaluation of what the hell we're about (to paraphrase a speech by Al Gore I heard on the radio last night)... -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of cris cheek Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 15:18 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: ever since the 3rd anniversary of our American invasion of Iraq u might find his of interest straying from Poetics list core discussion no doubt but . . . http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2147617,00.html US has dropped from 1th to 42 place in terms of life age expectancy in the past 20 years i wonder why? On 8/13/07, Mary Kasimor wrote: > > And another issue that is near and dear to my heart--the incarceration of > poor people and people of color in this country. I just finished reading an > article (actually book reviews) in The Nation. It is mind boggling to me > that so many Americans believe that we are the greatest country in the > world. Certainly I don't think that we can claim that title now, and I > wonder if we have ever been as great as we claim to be. > > Mary Kasimor > > Ruth Lepson wrote: > right on, as we said eons ago > hard to know where to give one's time & resources these days! > animal rights is related to all of what you write about. esp factory > farming. > guess I'd better look into my hair conditioner. > ruth > > > On 8/13/07 1:21 PM, "Stephen Vincent" wrote: > > > Some will hate to tell you, Conrad, what hair conditioners are doing to > > poison the Global, including the American landscape: the water supply, > > rivers, oceans, etc. I have a suspicions that 'biodegradable' as a term > is > > as suspect as 'organic' or 'free range' these days! > > > > To go bald may be more ecological and - in some traditions - penitent > and/or > > reverential of 'right actions' in a time of war. > > > > With and in total respect for your outrage. > > > > I hope or recommend that folks here read the Jane Mayer essay in last > week's > > New Yorker on 'The Black Sites' (i.e., CIA run torture chambers in > foreign > > countries). Impossible to read it, I think, without a gut response that > the > > perpetrators and policy makers behind the torture will need to be > brought to > > justice - no doubt by International courts - if this country is going to > > ever regain a moral and democratic center. > > > > Otherwise, similar to the effect of the growing black waters in the > artic - > > that cannot reflect the sun back from melting down the Artic ice cap and > > gradually raising the waters over us - at least on the coasts - the rule > of > > law and institutions in this country will face a total meltdown. > > > > Poetry - as a public act - will either be activist or nostalgia. > > > > Stephen V > > http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Being with this hair keeps me in check, keeps me angry, > >> keeps me mournful, keeps me far FAR FAR from sentimentality and other > >> stupidities, and sets me down in the middle of this breathtaking > landscape > >> of American denial. > >> > >> This hair will not be cut until we are out of Iraq. And my friends keep > >> asking what that means exactly. Does it mean when our soldiers are out? > Or > >> when the war itself is over? Or? Or peace? Or? > > > > --------------------------------- > Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! > TV. > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 14:08:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Kasimor Subject: Re: ever since the 3rd anniversary of our American invasion of Iraq In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit And capitalism is supposed to make everything work, with an equal opportunity for all. cris cheek wrote: u might find his of interest straying from Poetics list core discussion no doubt but . . . http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2147617,00.html US has dropped from 1th to 42 place in terms of life age expectancy in the past 20 years i wonder why? On 8/13/07, Mary Kasimor wrote: > > And another issue that is near and dear to my heart--the incarceration of > poor people and people of color in this country. I just finished reading an > article (actually book reviews) in The Nation. It is mind boggling to me > that so many Americans believe that we are the greatest country in the > world. Certainly I don't think that we can claim that title now, and I > wonder if we have ever been as great as we claim to be. > > Mary Kasimor > > Ruth Lepson wrote: > right on, as we said eons ago > hard to know where to give one's time & resources these days! > animal rights is related to all of what you write about. esp factory > farming. > guess I'd better look into my hair conditioner. > ruth > > > On 8/13/07 1:21 PM, "Stephen Vincent" wrote: > > > Some will hate to tell you, Conrad, what hair conditioners are doing to > > poison the Global, including the American landscape: the water supply, > > rivers, oceans, etc. I have a suspicions that 'biodegradable' as a term > is > > as suspect as 'organic' or 'free range' these days! > > > > To go bald may be more ecological and - in some traditions - penitent > and/or > > reverential of 'right actions' in a time of war. > > > > With and in total respect for your outrage. > > > > I hope or recommend that folks here read the Jane Mayer essay in last > week's > > New Yorker on 'The Black Sites' (i.e., CIA run torture chambers in > foreign > > countries). Impossible to read it, I think, without a gut response that > the > > perpetrators and policy makers behind the torture will need to be > brought to > > justice - no doubt by International courts - if this country is going to > > ever regain a moral and democratic center. > > > > Otherwise, similar to the effect of the growing black waters in the > artic - > > that cannot reflect the sun back from melting down the Artic ice cap and > > gradually raising the waters over us - at least on the coasts - the rule > of > > law and institutions in this country will face a total meltdown. > > > > Poetry - as a public act - will either be activist or nostalgia. > > > > Stephen V > > http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Being with this hair keeps me in check, keeps me angry, > >> keeps me mournful, keeps me far FAR FAR from sentimentality and other > >> stupidities, and sets me down in the middle of this breathtaking > landscape > >> of American denial. > >> > >> This hair will not be cut until we are out of Iraq. And my friends keep > >> asking what that means exactly. Does it mean when our soldiers are out? > Or > >> when the war itself is over? Or? Or peace? Or? > > > > --------------------------------- > Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! > TV. > --------------------------------- Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 23:25:56 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barry Schwabsky Subject: Re: VERSE vol. 24, n=?iso-8859-1?Q?=B0?= 1-3 : French Poetr y & Poetics In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hear, hear. Ruth Lepson wrote: Diane di Prma, It's great to read yr posts since I have always thought you are a vastly underappreciated poet--of course many do love your poetry but still... Good to have you with us, Ruth L. On 8/13/07 2:22 PM, "Diane DiPrima" wrote: > Mark, > > Thank you for asking that important question. For me, whether or not a book > of translation is bilingual is a primary concern. Whether or not I know the > language. Didn't that information used to be included more frequently than > it is now? It's even left out of most reviews. One wants to know. > > Diane di Prima > > >> From: Andrew Zawacki >> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >> Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 13:39:50 -0400 >> To: >> Subject: Re: VERSE vol. 24, n° 1-3 : French Poetry & Poetics >> >> Mark, >> >> The French originals are not included, unfortunately; already at 350+ pages, >> the >> issue would have become prohibitively expensive to print and distribute. >> >> Andrew >> >> >> ---- Original message ---- >>> Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 11:12:47 -0400 >>> From: Mark Weiss >>> Subject: Re: VERSE vol. 24, n° 1-3 : French Poetry & Poetics >>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>> >>> Andrew: Can I assume that the French originals of the poems are included? >>> >>> Mark >>> >>> At 10:24 AM 8/13/2007, you wrote: >>>> VERSE announces the release of volume 24, numbers 1-3: >>>> >>>> FRENCH POETRY & POETICS >>>> >>>> coedited by Abigail Lang & Andrew Zawacki. >>>> >>>> >>>> TEXTS by Pierre Alferi, Marie Borel, Oscarine >>>> Bosquet, Olivier Cadiot, Suzanne >>>> Doppelt, Caroline Dubois, Frédéric Forte, Dominique Fourcade, Jean >> Frémon, >>>> Michelle Grangaud, Emmanuel Hocquard, Philippe Jaccottet, Ian Monk, Anne >>>> Parian, Anne Portugal, Jacqueline Risset, Jacques Roubaud, Claude Royet- >>>> Journoud, Sébastien Smirou, Christophe Tarkos, & Bénédicte Vilgrain. >>>> >>>> INTERVIEWS with Dominique Fourcade & Claude Royet-Journoud. >>>> >>>> ESSAYS by Craig Dworkin, Kevin Hart, & Jean-Jacques Poucel. >>>> >>>> TRANSLATORS for the issue are Guy Bennett, >>>> Judith Bishop, Beverley Bie Brahic, >>>> Peter Consenstein, Jennifer Dick, Steve Evans, Micaela Kramer, Anna >>>> Moschovakis, Jennifer Moxley, Sarah Riggs, Eleni >>>> Sikelianos, Cole Swensen, Keith >>>> Waldrop, Rosmarie Waldrop, Chet Wiener, & Andrew Zawacki. >>>> >>>> BOOK REVIEWS: >>>> >>>> Timothy Donnelly on Stéphane Mallarmé; Tom Thompson on Charles >> Baudelaire; >>>> Michael Heller on Edmond Jabès; Ted Pearson on John Grosjean; Nathalie >>>> Stephens on Béatrice Mousli; Rusty Morrison on Claude Royet-Journoud; >>>> Beverley Bie Brahic on Jacques Roubaud; Eduardo Cadava on Suzanne >> Doppelt; >>>> Antoine Cazé on Valère Novarina; Eleni Sikelianos on Olivier Cadiot; >> Dawn- >>>> Michelle Baude on Esther Tellermann; Peter Ramos on Anne-Marie Albiach; >>>> Judith Bishop on Gérard Macé; Laird Hunt on Serge Fauchereau; Chris >>>> McDermott on Jean Frémon; Kevin Craft on Claire Malroux; Andrea Stevens >> on >>>> Emmanuel Moses; Paul Kane on Yves Bonnefoy; Chad Davidson on Jacques >> Réda; >>>> Michael Fagenblat on Michel Deguy; Jacques Khalip on Jean-Michel Maulpoix; >>>> Kristen Prevallet on Valérie-Catherine Richez, >>>> Marie Borel, & Isabelle Garron; >>>> Nicholas Manning on Marie Borel; & Marcella Durand on Pascalle Monnier & >>>> Jean-Michel Espitallier. >>>> >>>> >>>> The triple issue will be launched in Paris in >>>> late October. To order, please send >>>> a check, payable to "Verse," to Andrew Zawacki; Department of English; >>>> University of Georgia; Athens, GA 30602. Price per copy: $15 / 10€ / £8. >>>> >>>> >>>> Andrew Zawacki >>>> DDepartment of English/ VERSE >>>> University of Georgia >>>> Athens, Georgia 30602 >>>> (706) 542-3434 >> >> >> Andrew Zawacki >> Department of English/ VERSE >> University of Georgia >> Athens, Georgia 30602 >> (706) 542-3434 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 19:06:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cris cheek Subject: Re: ever since the 3rd anniversary of our American invasion of Iraq In-Reply-To: <54AA9B41BC35F34EAD02E660901D8A5A0EE69CC9@TLRUSMNEAGMBX10.ERF.THOMSON.COM> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline indeed 11st;) thnx 4 spotting my buttery fingers and yes to not just a reevaluation but cultural reimagination On 8/13/07, Tom W. Lewis wrote: > > that's 11th, not 1th/1st, place... > > still, it's a precipitous drop -- time for a national reevaluation of > what the hell we're about (to paraphrase a speech by Al Gore I heard on > the radio last night)... > > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] > On Behalf Of cris cheek > Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 15:18 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: ever since the 3rd anniversary of our American invasion of > Iraq > > u might find his of interest > > straying from Poetics list core discussion no doubt but . . . > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2147617,00.html > > US has dropped > from 1th to 42 place in terms of life age expectancy in the past 20 > years > > i wonder why? > > On 8/13/07, Mary Kasimor wrote: > > > > And another issue that is near and dear to my heart--the incarceration > of > > poor people and people of color in this country. I just finished > reading an > > article (actually book reviews) in The Nation. It is mind boggling to > me > > that so many Americans believe that we are the greatest country in the > > world. Certainly I don't think that we can claim that title now, and I > > wonder if we have ever been as great as we claim to be. > > > > Mary Kasimor > > > > Ruth Lepson wrote: > > right on, as we said eons ago > > hard to know where to give one's time & resources these days! > > animal rights is related to all of what you write about. esp factory > > farming. > > guess I'd better look into my hair conditioner. > > ruth > > > > > > On 8/13/07 1:21 PM, "Stephen Vincent" wrote: > > > > > Some will hate to tell you, Conrad, what hair conditioners are doing > to > > > poison the Global, including the American landscape: the water > supply, > > > rivers, oceans, etc. I have a suspicions that 'biodegradable' as a > term > > is > > > as suspect as 'organic' or 'free range' these days! > > > > > > To go bald may be more ecological and - in some traditions - > penitent > > and/or > > > reverential of 'right actions' in a time of war. > > > > > > With and in total respect for your outrage. > > > > > > I hope or recommend that folks here read the Jane Mayer essay in > last > > week's > > > New Yorker on 'The Black Sites' (i.e., CIA run torture chambers in > > foreign > > > countries). Impossible to read it, I think, without a gut response > that > > the > > > perpetrators and policy makers behind the torture will need to be > > brought to > > > justice - no doubt by International courts - if this country is > going to > > > ever regain a moral and democratic center. > > > > > > Otherwise, similar to the effect of the growing black waters in the > > artic - > > > that cannot reflect the sun back from melting down the Artic ice cap > and > > > gradually raising the waters over us - at least on the coasts - the > rule > > of > > > law and institutions in this country will face a total meltdown. > > > > > > Poetry - as a public act - will either be activist or nostalgia. > > > > > > Stephen V > > > http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Being with this hair keeps me in check, keeps me angry, > > >> keeps me mournful, keeps me far FAR FAR from sentimentality and > other > > >> stupidities, and sets me down in the middle of this breathtaking > > landscape > > >> of American denial. > > >> > > >> This hair will not be cut until we are out of Iraq. And my friends > keep > > >> asking what that means exactly. Does it mean when our soldiers are > out? > > Or > > >> when the war itself is over? Or? Or peace? Or? > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on > Yahoo! > > TV. > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 11:32:57 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wystan Curnow Subject: Re: models of praxis?? In-Reply-To: A MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I might add that although Auckland's writing 'portfolio' of courses is comphrensive and perhaps unusually integral with our academic degree in English, it is quite new, evolving, and understaffed. Also that I am myself very new to teaching creative writing. And enjoying it. For these reasons in particular I'm interested in hearing more from mairead and others on this topic. =20 I'm so new at it that I've been overhauling my course ( 3rd year, called Writing Poetry) each time I teach it. I'm in favour of an integrated model, I'm not interested in teaching craft courses per se, nor in courses that are simply genre particular. I like the proposition that learning to write is a way of learning to read and vice versa. I like 'praxis' as a term; it pairs with theory ('poetics') for one thing. Would you say there's a key role for 'poetics'/theory in the integration you are considering? Wystan =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of cris cheek Sent: Tuesday, 14 August 2007 2:12 a.m. To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: models of praxis?? hi all, thanks for the many and provocative responses both on the list and off it. I feel maybe i should say just a little more about what's pushing my search for other models. We have (i am being approximate) 340 students in the Creative Writing program and 390 in Literature. Students get awarded a BA in Literature or a BA in Creative Writing (there are graduate programs in both too ofc). The idea is to begin to consider an "integration" so that a degree in English will result, without losing the strengths of both programs. I see an opportunity to discuss praxis being a core of such integration, both in and out of the classroom. Praxis *might not be the best term, so i'll gladly take friendly ammendments on that score;) But a pedagogical shake-up between existing mores of "creative" and "literary" models. keep it coming love and looking forwards cris ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 18:51:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: Re: ever since the 3rd anniversary of our American invasion of Iraq In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable only reason I pointed it out (apart from me being a picky editor-type) is that I'd always thought in my mindless patriotic haze that we were #1 in life expectancy -- what kind of an empire is this we're running?=20 -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of cris cheek Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 18:07 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: ever since the 3rd anniversary of our American invasion of Iraq indeed 11st;) thnx 4 spotting my buttery fingers and yes to not just a reevaluation but cultural reimagination On 8/13/07, Tom W. Lewis wrote: > > that's 11th, not 1th/1st, place... > > still, it's a precipitous drop -- time for a national reevaluation of > what the hell we're about (to paraphrase a speech by Al Gore I heard on > the radio last night)... > > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] > On Behalf Of cris cheek > Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 15:18 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: ever since the 3rd anniversary of our American invasion of > Iraq > > u might find his of interest > > straying from Poetics list core discussion no doubt but . . . > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2147617,00.html > > US has dropped > from 1th to 42 place in terms of life age expectancy in the past 20 > years > > i wonder why? > > On 8/13/07, Mary Kasimor wrote: > > > > And another issue that is near and dear to my heart--the incarceration > of > > poor people and people of color in this country. I just finished > reading an > > article (actually book reviews) in The Nation. It is mind boggling to > me > > that so many Americans believe that we are the greatest country in the > > world. Certainly I don't think that we can claim that title now, and I > > wonder if we have ever been as great as we claim to be. > > > > Mary Kasimor > > > > Ruth Lepson wrote: > > right on, as we said eons ago > > hard to know where to give one's time & resources these days! > > animal rights is related to all of what you write about. esp factory > > farming. > > guess I'd better look into my hair conditioner. > > ruth > > > > > > On 8/13/07 1:21 PM, "Stephen Vincent" wrote: > > > > > Some will hate to tell you, Conrad, what hair conditioners are doing > to > > > poison the Global, including the American landscape: the water > supply, > > > rivers, oceans, etc. I have a suspicions that 'biodegradable' as a > term > > is > > > as suspect as 'organic' or 'free range' these days! > > > > > > To go bald may be more ecological and - in some traditions - > penitent > > and/or > > > reverential of 'right actions' in a time of war. > > > > > > With and in total respect for your outrage. > > > > > > I hope or recommend that folks here read the Jane Mayer essay in > last > > week's > > > New Yorker on 'The Black Sites' (i.e., CIA run torture chambers in > > foreign > > > countries). Impossible to read it, I think, without a gut response > that > > the > > > perpetrators and policy makers behind the torture will need to be > > brought to > > > justice - no doubt by International courts - if this country is > going to > > > ever regain a moral and democratic center. > > > > > > Otherwise, similar to the effect of the growing black waters in the > > artic - > > > that cannot reflect the sun back from melting down the Artic ice cap > and > > > gradually raising the waters over us - at least on the coasts - the > rule > > of > > > law and institutions in this country will face a total meltdown. > > > > > > Poetry - as a public act - will either be activist or nostalgia. > > > > > > Stephen V > > > http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Being with this hair keeps me in check, keeps me angry, > > >> keeps me mournful, keeps me far FAR FAR from sentimentality and > other > > >> stupidities, and sets me down in the middle of this breathtaking > > landscape > > >> of American denial. > > >> > > >> This hair will not be cut until we are out of Iraq. And my friends > keep > > >> asking what that means exactly. Does it mean when our soldiers are > out? > > Or > > >> when the war itself is over? Or? Or peace? Or? > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on > Yahoo! > > TV. > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 17:16:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Kasimor Subject: Re: VERSE vol. 24, n=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=B0?= 1-3 : French Poetr y & Poetics In-Reply-To: <952159.71407.qm@web86008.mail.ird.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Yes, I have the book, Loba, that I've had for almost 30 years. It cost $5 when I bought it. I've kept it through all my moves--and those have been many. Mary Barry Schwabsky wrote: Hear, hear. Ruth Lepson wrote: Diane di Prma, It's great to read yr posts since I have always thought you are a vastly underappreciated poet--of course many do love your poetry but still... Good to have you with us, Ruth L. On 8/13/07 2:22 PM, "Diane DiPrima" wrote: > Mark, > > Thank you for asking that important question. For me, whether or not a book > of translation is bilingual is a primary concern. Whether or not I know the > language. Didn't that information used to be included more frequently than > it is now? It's even left out of most reviews. One wants to know. > > Diane di Prima > > >> From: Andrew Zawacki >> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >> Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 13:39:50 -0400 >> To: >> Subject: Re: VERSE vol. 24, n° 1-3 : French Poetry & Poetics >> >> Mark, >> >> The French originals are not included, unfortunately; already at 350+ pages, >> the >> issue would have become prohibitively expensive to print and distribute. >> >> Andrew >> >> >> ---- Original message ---- >>> Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 11:12:47 -0400 >>> From: Mark Weiss >>> Subject: Re: VERSE vol. 24, n° 1-3 : French Poetry & Poetics >>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>> >>> Andrew: Can I assume that the French originals of the poems are included? >>> >>> Mark >>> >>> At 10:24 AM 8/13/2007, you wrote: >>>> VERSE announces the release of volume 24, numbers 1-3: >>>> >>>> FRENCH POETRY & POETICS >>>> >>>> coedited by Abigail Lang & Andrew Zawacki. >>>> >>>> >>>> TEXTS by Pierre Alferi, Marie Borel, Oscarine >>>> Bosquet, Olivier Cadiot, Suzanne >>>> Doppelt, Caroline Dubois, Frédéric Forte, Dominique Fourcade, Jean >> Frémon, >>>> Michelle Grangaud, Emmanuel Hocquard, Philippe Jaccottet, Ian Monk, Anne >>>> Parian, Anne Portugal, Jacqueline Risset, Jacques Roubaud, Claude Royet- >>>> Journoud, Sébastien Smirou, Christophe Tarkos, & Bénédicte Vilgrain. >>>> >>>> INTERVIEWS with Dominique Fourcade & Claude Royet-Journoud. >>>> >>>> ESSAYS by Craig Dworkin, Kevin Hart, & Jean-Jacques Poucel. >>>> >>>> TRANSLATORS for the issue are Guy Bennett, >>>> Judith Bishop, Beverley Bie Brahic, >>>> Peter Consenstein, Jennifer Dick, Steve Evans, Micaela Kramer, Anna >>>> Moschovakis, Jennifer Moxley, Sarah Riggs, Eleni >>>> Sikelianos, Cole Swensen, Keith >>>> Waldrop, Rosmarie Waldrop, Chet Wiener, & Andrew Zawacki. >>>> >>>> BOOK REVIEWS: >>>> >>>> Timothy Donnelly on Stéphane Mallarmé; Tom Thompson on Charles >> Baudelaire; >>>> Michael Heller on Edmond Jabès; Ted Pearson on John Grosjean; Nathalie >>>> Stephens on Béatrice Mousli; Rusty Morrison on Claude Royet-Journoud; >>>> Beverley Bie Brahic on Jacques Roubaud; Eduardo Cadava on Suzanne >> Doppelt; >>>> Antoine Cazé on Valère Novarina; Eleni Sikelianos on Olivier Cadiot; >> Dawn- >>>> Michelle Baude on Esther Tellermann; Peter Ramos on Anne-Marie Albiach; >>>> Judith Bishop on Gérard Macé; Laird Hunt on Serge Fauchereau; Chris >>>> McDermott on Jean Frémon; Kevin Craft on Claire Malroux; Andrea Stevens >> on >>>> Emmanuel Moses; Paul Kane on Yves Bonnefoy; Chad Davidson on Jacques >> Réda; >>>> Michael Fagenblat on Michel Deguy; Jacques Khalip on Jean-Michel Maulpoix; >>>> Kristen Prevallet on Valérie-Catherine Richez, >>>> Marie Borel, & Isabelle Garron; >>>> Nicholas Manning on Marie Borel; & Marcella Durand on Pascalle Monnier & >>>> Jean-Michel Espitallier. >>>> >>>> >>>> The triple issue will be launched in Paris in >>>> late October. To order, please send >>>> a check, payable to "Verse," to Andrew Zawacki; Department of English; >>>> University of Georgia; Athens, GA 30602. Price per copy: $15 / 10€ / £8. >>>> >>>> >>>> Andrew Zawacki >>>> DDepartment of English/ VERSE >>>> University of Georgia >>>> Athens, Georgia 30602 >>>> (706) 542-3434 >> >> >> Andrew Zawacki >> Department of English/ VERSE >> University of Georgia >> Athens, Georgia 30602 >> (706) 542-3434 --------------------------------- Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 08:45:00 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Switaj Subject: Re: on hearing of the American soldiers refusing to return to America after Iraq In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline So many of the young people who have been sent to Iraq did not join the military because they were warlike, as may perhaps be the case with the men you mention in your family, but because of economic pressure or because they genuinely believed that it was a way to do some good in the world. That contributes greatly to the ability of these surviving soldiers to speak the truth about this war. That said, I understand very well your initial anger about NEA funds being directed to help veterans write their memoirs. The proliferation of war stories, particularly when they are written at the expense of other stories, seem to contribute to a cultural idolization of the soldier. Even stories meant to show the brutality of war may be taken wrong. Elizabeth Kate Switaj www.elizabethkateswitaj.net On 8/13/07, CA Conrad wrote: > > Stephen thank you so much for that article about Gary Lawless's poetry > workshops for veterans. > > With some embarrassment I admit that I was angry by Dana Gioia's decision > a > few years ago to create funding at the NEA for Iraq veterans to write > their > memoirs. > > Of course Gioia was also CUTTING funding to all kinds of other > organizations > at the time, which helped fuel my anger. But I also am one of the only > men > in my family to not be in the military, and I have great disdain for the > men of my family who are some of the most brutal human beings I've ever > known. > > But having been exposed to the stories of Iraq war veterans it's very > clear > to me that this war is very different in many ways, and no one could > possibly document it better than the soldiers themselves. And no one > could > help us end this war than these veterans. > > And I'm sure they have far more to tell us than the daily horrors of the > war. What do these soldiers have to say for instance about the private > armies and other corporate interests? Presidential candidate (he has my > vote!) Dennis Kucinich says (and he is the ONLY one saying such things) > that > "Iraq has become the world's best example of privatization." > > CAConrad > http://PhillySound.blogspot.com > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 20:32:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Hugh Margemont-Robinson Subject: Re: on hearing of the American soldiers refusing to return to America after Iraq In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline a relevant instance of terrifying self-contradiction: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BEsZMvrq-I On 8/13/07, CA Conrad wrote: > Stephen thank you so much for that article about Gary Lawless's poetry > workshops for veterans. > > With some embarrassment I admit that I was angry by Dana Gioia's decision a > few years ago to create funding at the NEA for Iraq veterans to write their > memoirs. > > Of course Gioia was also CUTTING funding to all kinds of other organizations > at the time, which helped fuel my anger. But I also am one of the only men > in my family to not be in the military, and I have great disdain for the > men of my family who are some of the most brutal human beings I've ever > known. > > But having been exposed to the stories of Iraq war veterans it's very clear > to me that this war is very different in many ways, and no one could > possibly document it better than the soldiers themselves. And no one could > help us end this war than these veterans. > > And I'm sure they have far more to tell us than the daily horrors of the > war. What do these soldiers have to say for instance about the private > armies and other corporate interests? Presidential candidate (he has my > vote!) Dennis Kucinich says (and he is the ONLY one saying such things) that > "Iraq has become the world's best example of privatization." > > CAConrad > http://PhillySound.blogspot.com > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 20:12:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: Brooke Astor RIP (1902 - 2007) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Of course Gioia was also CUTTING funding to all kinds of other=20 > organizations at the time, which helped fuel my anger. this reminded me of the death notice in today's paper: speaking of funding, does that mean the Astor estate is going to start paying out the incredible sum she willed to the Poetry Foundation?=20 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 22:00:10 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cris cheek Subject: Re: models of praxis?? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline again thnx for keeping this discussion evolving (Mairead, Wysten, Pierre, Heidi, Scott, Catherine and all) I can say that i have been teaching both "creative writing" and "literature" courses and both have involved perspectives drawn from cultural studies and critical/literary theory and poetics (i realise i am being incredibly washy with my brush) . . . here undergraduates get an "Introduction to Poetry" in their freshman year; an "Introduction to Creative Writing" in their sophomore year (taking in poetry / fiction / creative non-fiction to the professors taste) 7 sections of this were taught last semester; Contemporary Poetry (focussing on discussion of works from the past decade or so . . . sometimes with assignments for hybrid creative/essay responses); Intermediate Poetry and Intermediate Fiction (yes they are separated out at this stage); u guessed it "Advanced Creative Writing" in their Senior year plus a Capstone course "Issues in Creative Writing". They can only take each course once ofc, so need a lot of other Literature, Linguistics etc in their credit mix. Mairead i recognise the issue of teaching from either a "fiction" or a "poetry" perspective. My way into it is to explore issues of restraint in all forms of writing (Oulipian ideas, the found, procedural / processual works, format-restricted bookworks . . .) and to explore boundaries between "poetry" and "prose" thru prose-poems, flash fictions etc including works that just do not simply fit into category (of which there is a growing number) including digital writing(s) (flash pieces like those by Yung-hae Chang and so on) and "live" work(s). But yes their are those who desperately adhere to category;) love and love cris On 8/13/07, Wystan Curnow wrote: > > I might add that although Auckland's writing 'portfolio' of courses is > comphrensive and perhaps unusually integral with our academic degree in > English, it is quite new, evolving, and understaffed. Also that I am > myself very new to teaching creative writing. And enjoying it. For > these reasons in particular I'm interested in hearing more from mairead > and others on this topic. > > > I'm so new at it that I've been overhauling my course ( 3rd year, called > Writing Poetry) each time I teach it. I'm in favour of an integrated > model, I'm not interested in teaching craft courses per se, nor in > courses that are simply genre particular. I like the proposition that > learning to write is a way of learning to read and vice versa. I like > 'praxis' as a term; it pairs with theory ('poetics') for one thing. > Would you say there's a key role for 'poetics'/theory in the > integration you are considering? > > Wystan > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] > On Behalf Of cris cheek > Sent: Tuesday, 14 August 2007 2:12 a.m. > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: models of praxis?? > > hi all, > > thanks for the many and provocative responses both on the list and off > it. I feel maybe i should say just a little more about what's pushing my > search for other models. > > We have (i am being approximate) 340 students in the Creative Writing > program and 390 in Literature. Students get awarded a BA in Literature > or a BA in Creative Writing (there are graduate programs in both too > ofc). The idea is to begin to consider an "integration" so that a degree > in English will result, without losing the strengths of both programs. > > I see an opportunity to discuss praxis being a core of such integration, > both in and out of the classroom. Praxis *might not be the best term, so > i'll gladly take friendly ammendments on that > score;) But a pedagogical shake-up between existing mores of "creative" > and "literary" models. > > keep it coming > > love and looking forwards > cris > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 22:49:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: models of praxis?? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Seems to me that the creative writing majors should have the same required courses as the traditional lit majors, plus their workshops--it wouldn't be horrible to have would-be writers who've read something written before yesterday. Do undergraduate programs still have survey courses, medieval, 19th century, etc ? I'm less clear what benefit creative writing workshops would have for protoscholars and critics. In theory trying to write poems would be helpful for understanding the writerly process (any of the dozens of writerly processes), but I doubt that could be taught to resistant students in one or two courses. Presumably most poets have already begun writing poems a long time before they know they want to be poets--coming to it on assignment would be a whole nother process. Mairead's students I'd guess are a different breed--they already know they want to be artists. Introducing students to a body of theory that's designed to say something about a set of phenomena might be smarter if the students are already aware of the phenomena, otherwise it's just building perceptual walls. Theory, it seems to me, is an endpoint, not a beginning. Mark At 07:32 PM 8/13/2007, you wrote: >I might add that although Auckland's writing 'portfolio' of courses is >comphrensive and perhaps unusually integral with our academic degree in >English, it is quite new, evolving, and understaffed. Also that I am >myself very new to teaching creative writing. And enjoying it. For >these reasons in particular I'm interested in hearing more from mairead >and others on this topic. > > >I'm so new at it that I've been overhauling my course ( 3rd year, called >Writing Poetry) each time I teach it. I'm in favour of an integrated >model, I'm not interested in teaching craft courses per se, nor in >courses that are simply genre particular. I like the proposition that >learning to write is a way of learning to read and vice versa. I like >'praxis' as a term; it pairs with theory ('poetics') for one thing. >Would you say there's a key role for 'poetics'/theory in the >integration you are considering? > > Wystan > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] >On Behalf Of cris cheek >Sent: Tuesday, 14 August 2007 2:12 a.m. >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: models of praxis?? > >hi all, > >thanks for the many and provocative responses both on the list and off >it. I feel maybe i should say just a little more about what's pushing my >search for other models. > >We have (i am being approximate) 340 students in the Creative Writing >program and 390 in Literature. Students get awarded a BA in Literature >or a BA in Creative Writing (there are graduate programs in both too >ofc). The idea is to begin to consider an "integration" so that a degree >in English will result, without losing the strengths of both programs. > >I see an opportunity to discuss praxis being a core of such integration, >both in and out of the classroom. Praxis *might not be the best term, so >i'll gladly take friendly ammendments on that >score;) But a pedagogical shake-up between existing mores of "creative" >and "literary" models. > >keep it coming > >love and looking forwards >cris ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 20:33:45 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: V Nicholas LoLordo Subject: Re: models of praxis?? In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20070813223507.06331710@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Responding primarily to Mark Weiss: 1) Yes, those old undergrad distribution requirements still exist, though my sense of things is that there are fewer of them, and that, generally, the English major is less hierarchical than it was 20 yrs ago... 2) I took a CW workshop, and would say this: anybody who wants to study contemporary lit can benefit greatly from an insider's view of compositional practices &/or the ideology of CW--just as they might benefit from interning at the New Yorker and reading a bunch of NYer short stories.....the extent to which the future scholar of medieval poetry will benefit from their time in the workshop is more complicated.... On Aug 13, 2007, at 7:49 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > Seems to me that the creative writing majors should have the same > required courses as the traditional lit majors, plus their > workshops--it wouldn't be horrible to have would-be writers who've > read something written before yesterday. Do undergraduate programs > still have survey courses, medieval, 19th century, etc ? > > I'm less clear what benefit creative writing workshops would have > for protoscholars and critics. In theory trying to write poems > would be helpful for understanding the writerly process (any of the > dozens of writerly processes), but I doubt that could be taught to > resistant students in one or two courses. Presumably most poets > have already begun writing poems a long time before they know they > want to be poets--coming to it on assignment would be a whole > nother process. > > Mairead's students I'd guess are a different breed--they already > know they want to be artists. > > Introducing students to a body of theory that's designed to say > something about a set of phenomena might be smarter if the students > are already aware of the phenomena, otherwise it's just building > perceptual walls. Theory, it seems to me, is an endpoint, not a > beginning. > > Mark V Nicholas LoLordo Assistant Professor Department of English University of Nevada-Las Vegas 4505 Maryland Parkway Box 455011 Las Vegas, NV 89154-5011 Phone: 702-895-3623 Fax: 702-895-4801 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 15:49:56 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wystan Curnow Subject: Re: models of praxis?? In-Reply-To: A<7.0.1.0.1.20070813223507.06331710@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mark,re-would-be writers & proto-scholars, I reckon most of the students who do these courses will not become either. It is one of the features of the teaching of academic student writing--which everyone does in all departments/ disciplines, whether they think they do or not--that the model is the scholarship model, unquestioned. Maybe its ok, certainly it serves one of the narrow purposes of tertiary training, to replace the trainers, but ... I have an idea that most would-be writers don't become writers but they do become/remain keen readers. What is the case is that students, large numbers of them today, like the idea of writing courses, and so the university does too. That shouldn't be a bad thing. It's in fact up to us to make it a good thing.=20 Wystan =20 -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Mark Weiss Sent: Tuesday, 14 August 2007 2:50 p.m. To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: models of praxis?? Seems to me that the creative writing majors should have the same required courses as the traditional lit majors, plus their workshops--it wouldn't be horrible to have would-be writers who've read something written before yesterday. Do undergraduate programs still have survey courses, medieval, 19th century, etc ? I'm less clear what benefit creative writing workshops would have for protoscholars and critics. In theory trying to write poems would be helpful for understanding the writerly process (any of the dozens of writerly processes), but I doubt that could be taught to resistant students in one or two courses. Presumably most poets have already begun writing poems a long time before they know they want to be poets--coming to it on assignment would be a whole nother process. Mairead's students I'd guess are a different breed--they already know they want to be artists. Introducing students to a body of theory that's designed to say something about a set of phenomena might be smarter if the students are already aware of the phenomena, otherwise it's just building perceptual walls. Theory, it seems to me, is an endpoint, not a beginning. Mark At 07:32 PM 8/13/2007, you wrote: >I might add that although Auckland's writing 'portfolio' of courses is=20 >comphrensive and perhaps unusually integral with our academic degree in >English, it is quite new, evolving, and understaffed. Also that I am=20 >myself very new to teaching creative writing. And enjoying it. For=20 >these reasons in particular I'm interested in hearing more from mairead >and others on this topic. > > >I'm so new at it that I've been overhauling my course ( 3rd year,=20 >called Writing Poetry) each time I teach it. I'm in favour of an =20 >integrated model, I'm not interested in teaching craft courses per se, >nor in courses that are simply genre particular. I like the proposition >that learning to write is a way of learning to read and vice versa. I=20 >like 'praxis' as a term; it pairs with theory ('poetics') for one thing. >Would you say there's a key role for 'poetics'/theory in the=20 >integration you are considering? > > Wystan > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] >On Behalf Of cris cheek >Sent: Tuesday, 14 August 2007 2:12 a.m. >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: models of praxis?? > >hi all, > >thanks for the many and provocative responses both on the list and off=20 >it. I feel maybe i should say just a little more about what's pushing=20 >my search for other models. > >We have (i am being approximate) 340 students in the Creative Writing=20 >program and 390 in Literature. Students get awarded a BA in Literature=20 >or a BA in Creative Writing (there are graduate programs in both too=20 >ofc). The idea is to begin to consider an "integration" so that a=20 >degree in English will result, without losing the strengths of both programs. > >I see an opportunity to discuss praxis being a core of such=20 >integration, both in and out of the classroom. Praxis *might not be the >best term, so i'll gladly take friendly ammendments on that >score;) But a pedagogical shake-up between existing mores of "creative" >and "literary" models. > >keep it coming > >love and looking forwards >cris ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 21:07:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: models of praxis?? In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20070813223507.06331710@earthlink.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit My concerns are a couple here: 1. Students who aim to become PhD Scholar/Profs (or high school teachers for that matter) may well benefit from taking creative writing courses, and be able to recognize and support the efforts of students who veer into creative work. On the other hand, PhD's who - by virtue of their creative writing class 'training' - authoritatively decide what constitutes good versus bad poetry, etc., may end up being a total, conservative pain in the ass. 2. Not to mitigate the aim of having well read and critically sharp students, I am wonder if a hard-ass approach to literary criticism might end up knocking out creative students with x,y and z issues around traditional forms of learning. Punitive reverence is often a killer! Also, I am sure many of the poets on this list - as well as in the world - have crazy heads when it comes to adhering to orthodox teaching practices. (Left brain versus right brain, and all of that). For all the benefits people are praising for good reasons, I think it is still important to recognize we are mixing two cultures here. Some of my favorite professors from University universally hated any poetry after Eliot, etc. I think you have to be careful here,or you are going to get the syndrome this country has recently experienced with the Neocons enacting their creative models for invading and establishing democracy in Iraq. I think a lot of care has to go into this. I think its also fair to propose that Creative Writing majors get a good dose of history, political and otherwise, plus other disciplines, science, geography, philosophy, linguistics, history of film, music, typography and book design, etc. All those kinds of input are vital, I think, to shaking up writing, its content, etc. Shouldn't a creative writing major have open as many resources as a good filmmaker? Stephen V http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ > Seems to me that the creative writing majors should have the same > required courses as the traditional lit majors, plus their > workshops--it wouldn't be horrible to have would-be writers who've > read something written before yesterday. Do undergraduate programs > still have survey courses, medieval, 19th century, etc ? > > I'm less clear what benefit creative writing workshops would have for > protoscholars and critics. In theory trying to write poems would be > helpful for understanding the writerly process (any of the dozens of > writerly processes), but I doubt that could be taught to resistant > students in one or two courses. Presumably most poets have already > begun writing poems a long time before they know they want to be > poets--coming to it on assignment would be a whole nother process. > > Mairead's students I'd guess are a different breed--they already know > they want to be artists. > > Introducing students to a body of theory that's designed to say > something about a set of phenomena might be smarter if the students > are already aware of the phenomena, otherwise it's just building > perceptual walls. Theory, it seems to me, is an endpoint, not a beginning. > > Mark > > At 07:32 PM 8/13/2007, you wrote: >> I might add that although Auckland's writing 'portfolio' of courses is >> comphrensive and perhaps unusually integral with our academic degree in >> English, it is quite new, evolving, and understaffed. Also that I am >> myself very new to teaching creative writing. And enjoying it. For >> these reasons in particular I'm interested in hearing more from mairead >> and others on this topic. >> >> >> I'm so new at it that I've been overhauling my course ( 3rd year, called >> Writing Poetry) each time I teach it. I'm in favour of an integrated >> model, I'm not interested in teaching craft courses per se, nor in >> courses that are simply genre particular. I like the proposition that >> learning to write is a way of learning to read and vice versa. I like >> 'praxis' as a term; it pairs with theory ('poetics') for one thing. >> Would you say there's a key role for 'poetics'/theory in the >> integration you are considering? >> >> Wystan >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] >> On Behalf Of cris cheek >> Sent: Tuesday, 14 August 2007 2:12 a.m. >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: Re: models of praxis?? >> >> hi all, >> >> thanks for the many and provocative responses both on the list and off >> it. I feel maybe i should say just a little more about what's pushing my >> search for other models. >> >> We have (i am being approximate) 340 students in the Creative Writing >> program and 390 in Literature. Students get awarded a BA in Literature >> or a BA in Creative Writing (there are graduate programs in both too >> ofc). The idea is to begin to consider an "integration" so that a degree >> in English will result, without losing the strengths of both programs. >> >> I see an opportunity to discuss praxis being a core of such integration, >> both in and out of the classroom. Praxis *might not be the best term, so >> i'll gladly take friendly ammendments on that >> score;) But a pedagogical shake-up between existing mores of "creative" >> and "literary" models. >> >> keep it coming >> >> love and looking forwards >> cris ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 18:27:32 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Susan Webster Schultz Subject: creative writing praxis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Increasingly, MA students at UH are asking to take exams in Creative Writing Pedagogy, and increasingly I'm being asked to be an examiner in this field. As to what that field might be, I'll perhaps know better after conducting a directed reading with 5 or so grad and undergrad students this coming semester. But my impression is that the "literature" on the subject is flimsy, east coast centered, mono-cultural, and generally speaking, pretty unhelpful. I did find a decent introduction to the field here: _The Elephants Teach: Creative Writing Since 1880_, by David G. Myers. I also like, as a tool, Hazel Smith's _The Writing Experiment_, though I confess I haven't yet used it to teach by. But my strong sense is that there needs to me more and better writing on the subject, because if the lists I'm seeing are any indication, the field is pretty anemic. aloha, Susan who is watching: http://www.goes.noaa.gov/ha2.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 21:28:09 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Matt Henriksen Subject: Fri Aug 17 ::: Michael Robins & Dara Wier ::: Carroll Gardens, Brooklyn MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Burning Chair Readings don’t want you to let summer g= =0A=0AThe Burning Chair Readings=0A=0A=0Adon=92t want you to let=0Asummer g= o without a fight,=0A=0A=0Aso come out and hear=0Afighting words from=0A=0A= =0A =0A=0A=0AMichael Robins & Dara=0AWier=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0AFriday, August = 7:30 PM=0A=0A=0A@ The Fall Caf=E9=0A=0A=0A307 Smith Street=0A=0A=0Abetween = Union &=0APresident=0A=0A=0ACarroll Gardens, Brooklyn=0A=0A=0AF/G to Carrol= l=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0ABorn in=0APortland, Oregon, Michael Robins is the autho= r of The Next Settlement (University of North Texas Press, 2007), which was= selected for the Vassar Miller Prize in Poetry. He=0Aholds degrees from th= e University of Oregon and the University of Massachusetts=0AAmherst, and h= is poems have recently appeared or are forthcoming in Boston Review, The Ci= ncinnati Review, Denver Quarterly, LUNA, Third Coast and elsewhere. He live= s in=0AChicago and teaches at Columbia College.=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0AThr= ee poems in Typo=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0ADara Wier's books include Remnants of Ha= nnah (Wave=0ABooks 2006); Reverse Rapture (Verse Press 2005); Hat on a Pond= =0A(Verse Press, 2002) and Voyages in English (Carnegie Mellon U. Press,=0A= 2001). A limited edition, (X in Fix),=0Aa selection of 5 longer poems, inc= luding a section from Reverse Rapture,=0Ais printed in RainTaxi=92s Brainst= orm series. Recent poems can be found in=0AAmerican Poetry Review, New Amer= ican Writing, Volt, Massachusetts Review,=0AThe Melic, The Canary, Painted = Bride Quarterly, Mississippi Review, slope,=0AHollins Critic, Seattle Revie= w, Turnrow, Hunger Mountain, Cincinatti Review,=0ADenver Quarterly, Octopus= , Conduit, Crazyhorse, Court Green and Gulf=0ACoast. She works as a member = of the poetry faculty and director of the MFA=0Aprogram for poets and write= rs at the University of Massachusetts Amherst. Her=0Abook, Reverse Rapture = has been recently awarded The Poetry Center &=0AAmerican Poetry Archives 20= 06 book of the year prize.=0A=0A=0A=0A=93Blue Oxen=94=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0AAls= o upcoming=0A=0A=0AFrank Sherlock & David=0AShapiro=0A=0A=0AFriday, August = 31st,=0A8 PM=0A=0A=0A@ Jimmy=92s No.43 Stage=0A=0A=0A43 East 7th=0AStreet= =0A=0A=0Abetween 2nd=0A& 3rd Avenues=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0AThe Burning Chair Re= adings=0A=0A=0Atypomag.com/burningchair=0A=0A=0Acontact: Matthew Henriksen= =0A=0A=0Amatt AT typomag DOT com=0A=0A=0A917-478-5682=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A = ______________________________________________________________________= ______________=0AShape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research= Panel today! http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a= =3D7 =0A=0A ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 21:36:11 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: New book: Prehistoric Digital Poetry by Chris Funkhouser MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I just got Chris Funkhouser's new book: 'Prehistoric Digital Poetry -- An Archaeology of Forms, 1959-95'. A couple of URLs for it: http://www.uapress.ua.edu/NewSearch2.cfm?id=133757 (U of Alabama Press), and http://tinyurl.com/2kuh89 (Amazon.com). I'm looking forward to giving this a good read. It's the first book-length look at the 45 years of pre-web digital poetry. ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 00:40:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: models of praxis?? In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit the best thing you can do for smart students in a poetry workshop is to get out of the way. have been giving workshops for many yrs & this works best for me, for them. be a super high energy construct when you enter the classroom & that will allow you to keep up w/ them. give them your response, sure, but get to the essential, not pedantic niggling stuff, & encourage them. bring in poems by terrific poets you love. meet w/ them individually & point out their strengths. that's all. really. fuck the exercises. unless they come up spontaneously. creeley came to some of my classes & I saw & heard. he might demonstrate how he structured the sounds of the poems but left the mystery intact. talk about technique & how it creates meaning. technique. sound. bring in some lang poetry theory abt person, tone, truth, stuff like that, that keeps things spacious & thought-provoking. have fun. laugh. ask why they do what they do. sometimes they know. On 8/14/07 12:07 AM, "Stephen Vincent" wrote: > My concerns are a couple here: > > 1. Students who aim to become PhD Scholar/Profs (or high school teachers for > that matter) may well benefit from taking creative writing courses, and be > able to recognize and support the efforts of students who veer into creative > work. On the other hand, PhD's who - by virtue of their creative writing > class 'training' - authoritatively decide what constitutes good versus bad > poetry, etc., may end up being a total, conservative pain in the ass. > > 2. Not to mitigate the aim of having well read and critically sharp > students, I am wonder if a hard-ass approach to literary criticism might end > up knocking out creative students with x,y and z issues around traditional > forms of learning. Punitive reverence is often a killer! Also, I am sure > many of the poets on this list - as well as in the world - have crazy heads > when it comes to adhering to orthodox teaching practices. (Left brain versus > right brain, and all of that). > > For all the benefits people are praising for good reasons, I think it is > still important to recognize we are mixing two cultures here. Some of my > favorite professors from University universally hated any poetry after > Eliot, etc. I think you have to be careful here,or you are going to get the > syndrome this country has recently experienced with the Neocons enacting > their creative models for invading and establishing democracy in Iraq. > > I think a lot of care has to go into this. > > I think its also fair to propose that Creative Writing majors get a good > dose of history, political and otherwise, plus other disciplines, science, > geography, philosophy, linguistics, history of film, music, typography and > book design, etc. All those kinds of input are vital, I think, to shaking > up writing, its content, etc. > > Shouldn't a creative writing major have open as many resources as a good > filmmaker? > > Stephen V > http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ > > > > > > > >> Seems to me that the creative writing majors should have the same >> required courses as the traditional lit majors, plus their >> workshops--it wouldn't be horrible to have would-be writers who've >> read something written before yesterday. Do undergraduate programs >> still have survey courses, medieval, 19th century, etc ? >> >> I'm less clear what benefit creative writing workshops would have for >> protoscholars and critics. In theory trying to write poems would be >> helpful for understanding the writerly process (any of the dozens of >> writerly processes), but I doubt that could be taught to resistant >> students in one or two courses. Presumably most poets have already >> begun writing poems a long time before they know they want to be >> poets--coming to it on assignment would be a whole nother process. >> >> Mairead's students I'd guess are a different breed--they already know >> they want to be artists. >> >> Introducing students to a body of theory that's designed to say >> something about a set of phenomena might be smarter if the students >> are already aware of the phenomena, otherwise it's just building >> perceptual walls. Theory, it seems to me, is an endpoint, not a beginning. >> >> Mark >> >> At 07:32 PM 8/13/2007, you wrote: >>> I might add that although Auckland's writing 'portfolio' of courses is >>> comphrensive and perhaps unusually integral with our academic degree in >>> English, it is quite new, evolving, and understaffed. Also that I am >>> myself very new to teaching creative writing. And enjoying it. For >>> these reasons in particular I'm interested in hearing more from mairead >>> and others on this topic. >>> >>> >>> I'm so new at it that I've been overhauling my course ( 3rd year, called >>> Writing Poetry) each time I teach it. I'm in favour of an integrated >>> model, I'm not interested in teaching craft courses per se, nor in >>> courses that are simply genre particular. I like the proposition that >>> learning to write is a way of learning to read and vice versa. I like >>> 'praxis' as a term; it pairs with theory ('poetics') for one thing. >>> Would you say there's a key role for 'poetics'/theory in the >>> integration you are considering? >>> >>> Wystan >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] >>> On Behalf Of cris cheek >>> Sent: Tuesday, 14 August 2007 2:12 a.m. >>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>> Subject: Re: models of praxis?? >>> >>> hi all, >>> >>> thanks for the many and provocative responses both on the list and off >>> it. I feel maybe i should say just a little more about what's pushing my >>> search for other models. >>> >>> We have (i am being approximate) 340 students in the Creative Writing >>> program and 390 in Literature. Students get awarded a BA in Literature >>> or a BA in Creative Writing (there are graduate programs in both too >>> ofc). The idea is to begin to consider an "integration" so that a degree >>> in English will result, without losing the strengths of both programs. >>> >>> I see an opportunity to discuss praxis being a core of such integration, >>> both in and out of the classroom. Praxis *might not be the best term, so >>> i'll gladly take friendly ammendments on that >>> score;) But a pedagogical shake-up between existing mores of "creative" >>> and "literary" models. >>> >>> keep it coming >>> >>> love and looking forwards >>> cris ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 22:32:29 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Diane DiPrima Subject: Re: VERSE vol. 24, n=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=B0?= 1-3 : French Poetr y & Poetics In-Reply-To: <834556.58736.qm@web51812.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Thank you, Ruth and Barry and Mary. I have always believed the work finds its own way--anyone's work. Mary, you might want to know that the Loba now out with Penguin (horrible cover, by the way) is twice the length of the Wingbow Press edition ou are probably referring to (1978). It's Loba Books I & II. There's been more written since, but that's another story. Diane > From: Mary Kasimor > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 17:16:10 -0700 > To: > Subject: Re: VERSE vol. 24, n=B0 1-3 : French Poetr y & Poetics >=20 > Yes, I have the book, Loba, that I've had for almost 30 years. It cost $5= when > I bought it. I've kept it through all my moves--and those have been many. > Mary >=20 > Barry Schwabsky wrote: > Hear, hear. >=20 > Ruth Lepson wrote: Diane di Prma, >=20 > It's great to read yr posts since I have always thought you are a vastly > underappreciated poet--of course many do love your poetry but still... >=20 > Good to have you with us, >=20 > Ruth L. >=20 >=20 > On 8/13/07 2:22 PM, "Diane DiPrima" > wrote: >=20 >> Mark, >>=20 >> Thank you for asking that important question. For me, whether or not a b= ook >> of translation is bilingual is a primary concern. Whether or not I know = the >> language. Didn't that information used to be included more frequently th= an >> it is now? It's even left out of most reviews. One wants to know. >>=20 >> Diane di Prima >>=20 >>=20 >>> From: Andrew Zawacki >>> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >=20 >>> Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 13:39:50 -0400 >>> To:=20 >=20 >>> Subject: Re: VERSE vol. 24, n=C2=B0 1-3 : French Poetry & Poetics >>>=20 >>> Mark, >>>=20 >>> The French originals are not included, unfortunately; already at 350+ p= ages, >>> the=20 >>> issue would have become prohibitively expensive to print and distribute= . >>>=20 >>> Andrew >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> ---- Original message ---- >>>> Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 11:12:47 -0400 >>>> From: Mark Weiss >>>> Subject: Re: VERSE vol. 24, n=C2=B0 1-3 : French Poetry & Poetics >>>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>>>=20 >>>> Andrew: Can I assume that the French originals of the poems are includ= ed? >>>>=20 >>>> Mark >>>>=20 >>>> At 10:24 AM 8/13/2007, you wrote: >>>>> VERSE announces the release of volume 24, numbers 1-3: >>>>>=20 >>>>> FRENCH POETRY & POETICS >>>>>=20 >>>>> coedited by Abigail Lang & Andrew Zawacki. >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> TEXTS by Pierre Alferi, Marie Borel, Oscarine >>>>> Bosquet, Olivier Cadiot, Suzanne >>>>> Doppelt, Caroline Dubois, Fr=C3=83=C2=A9d=C3=83=C2=A9ric Forte, Dominique Fourcade, J= ean >>> Fr=C3=83=C2=A9mon, >>>>> Michelle Grangaud, Emmanuel Hocquard, Philippe Jaccottet, Ian Monk, A= nne >>>>> Parian, Anne Portugal, Jacqueline Risset, Jacques Roubaud, Claude Roy= et- >>>>> Journoud, S=C3=83=C2=A9bastien Smirou, Christophe Tarkos, & B=C3=83=C2=A9n=C3=83=C2=A9dicte >>>>> Vilgrain. >>>>>=20 >>>>> INTERVIEWS with Dominique Fourcade & Claude Royet-Journoud. >>>>>=20 >>>>> ESSAYS by Craig Dworkin, Kevin Hart, & Jean-Jacques Poucel. >>>>>=20 >>>>> TRANSLATORS for the issue are Guy Bennett, >>>>> Judith Bishop, Beverley Bie Brahic, >>>>> Peter Consenstein, Jennifer Dick, Steve Evans, Micaela Kramer, Anna >>>>> Moschovakis, Jennifer Moxley, Sarah Riggs, Eleni >>>>> Sikelianos, Cole Swensen, Keith >>>>> Waldrop, Rosmarie Waldrop, Chet Wiener, & Andrew Zawacki. >>>>>=20 >>>>> BOOK REVIEWS: >>>>>=20 >>>>> Timothy Donnelly on St=C3=83=C2=A9phane Mallarm=C3=83=C2=A9; Tom Thompson on Charles >>> Baudelaire; >>>>> Michael Heller on Edmond Jab=C3=83=C2=A8s; Ted Pearson on John Grosjean; Nath= alie >>>>> Stephens on B=C3=83=C2=A9atrice Mousli; Rusty Morrison on Claude Royet-Journo= ud; >>>>> Beverley Bie Brahic on Jacques Roubaud; Eduardo Cadava on Suzanne >>> Doppelt; >>>>> Antoine Caz=C3=83=C2=A9 on Val=C3=83=C2=A8re Novarina; Eleni Sikelianos on Olivier Ca= diot; >>> Dawn- >>>>> Michelle Baude on Esther Tellermann; Peter Ramos on Anne-Marie Albiac= h; >>>>> Judith Bishop on G=C3=83=C2=A9rard Mac=C3=83=C2=A9; Laird Hunt on Serge Fauchereau; C= hris >>>>> McDermott on Jean Fr=C3=83=C2=A9mon; Kevin Craft on Claire Malroux; Andrea St= evens >>> on >>>>> Emmanuel Moses; Paul Kane on Yves Bonnefoy; Chad Davidson on Jacques >>> R=C3=83=C2=A9da; >>>>> Michael Fagenblat on Michel Deguy; Jacques Khalip on Jean-Michel Maul= poix; >>>>> Kristen Prevallet on Val=C3=83=C2=A9rie-Catherine Richez, >>>>> Marie Borel, & Isabelle Garron; >>>>> Nicholas Manning on Marie Borel; & Marcella Durand on Pascalle Monnie= r & >>>>> Jean-Michel Espitallier. >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> The triple issue will be launched in Paris in >>>>> late October. To order, please send >>>>> a check, payable to "Verse," to Andrew Zawacki; Department of English= ; >>>>> University of Georgia; Athens, GA 30602. Price per copy: $15 / 10=E2=82=AC = / >>>>> =C3=82=C2=A38. >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Andrew Zawacki >>>>> DDepartment of English/ VERSE >>>>> University of Georgia >>>>> Athens, Georgia 30602 >>>>> (706) 542-3434 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Andrew Zawacki >>> Department of English/ VERSE >>> University of Georgia >>> Athens, Georgia 30602 >>> (706) 542-3434 >=20 >=20 > =20 > --------------------------------- > Got a little couch potato? > Check out fun summer activities for kids. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 03:16:21 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Dylan Welch Subject: Sonia Sanchez, et al, at Haiku North America Conference MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Perhaps it might interest some of you to know that the biennial Haiku North America conference will run this Wednesday through Sunday (August 15 through 19, 2007) in Winston-Salem, North Carolina. It's a packed-full conference devoted to discussion, workshops, presentations, readings, and more, featuring Sonia Sanchez, Kalamu ya Salaam, William J. Higginson, Cor van den Heuvel, Jim Kacian, Richard Gilbert, George Swede, Charles Trumbull, and many more (see the full presenter list at _http://www.haikunorthamerica.com/hna_2007_presenters.html_ (http://www.haikunorthamerica.com/hna_2007_presenters.html) ). Complete info on the conference is at _http://www.haikunorthamerica.com/hna_2007.html_ (http://www.haikunorthamerica.com/hna_2007.html) , and you can read a newspaper story (which gets only a few minor things wrong) at _http://www.journalnow.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=WSJ%2FMGArticle%2FWSJ_BasicArticle&c= MGArticle&cid=1173352334467&path=!living&s=1037645509005_ (http://www.journalnow.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=WSJ/MGArticle/WSJ_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&c id=1173352334467&path=!living&s=1037645509005) (now there's a memorable URL, eh?). Should be a superb conference. Past conferences have been in San Francisco (1991, 1993), Toronto (1995), Portland, Oregon (1997), Chicago (1999), Boston (2001), New York City (2003), and Port Townsend, Washington (2005). Michael ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 02:26:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: CA Conrad Subject: Re: ever since the 3rd anniversary of our American invasion of Iraq MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Stephen I appreciate your worries about my conditioner for my War Hair and the environment. I'm not using regular drug store crap, but health food store conditioner with essential oils. And I also have a friend who makes her own and have used that, rosemary and other things from her garden. There are a host of problems with being part of the environment we pollute of course, as we all know. It always blows my mind (for instance) when I meet an activist for the environment who eats meat. Now I admit that I didn't become a vegetarian in 1988 for the sake of animals or the environment, but for my own health, but since then I've learned an awful lot about not only what suffering there is in America for animals (worse than anywhere else on the planet in many ways), but also the insatiable amount of resources needed to maintain the insane production of, slaughter of, shelving of. etc., etc. Which is why those fighting for the environment need to stop eating meat. Al Gore by the way is not a vegetarian. And the Amish everyone likes to think of as quaint, dear folk, are some of the worst when it comes to animal abuse of all kinds. I grew up in rural Pennsylvania and know all about these people. I've called them The Nazi Amish for years to the confusion of many ears. But when I became vegetarian it was through Macrobiotics. And through this we learn how the Big Life (as the term goes) includes being certain to eat locally, not only for your health through your own climate's food, but to also cut down on the incredible amount of resources (of all kinds, oil, human, etc.) going towards shipping a banana. But I'm not macrobiotic now, and haven't been for about a decade, just vegetarian. But I must admit that I felt better those first ten years with macrobiotics. You can't drink whiskey though, or beer, or smoke cigarettes, and I have to admit that I like some whiskey and beer and cigarettes. I'll probably not be macrobiotic again like I once was, but a close version of it can be had, I think, with some vice thrown in. And for those who might think talking about these things not proper for a Poetics List, I have to say I very much disagree. All of these things shape poetry. What we eat, drink, breathe, and how we relate to or ignore our environment will be in the poems one way or another, for better or worse. I've been working on a series of poems where I eat a single color of food all day before writing the poem for that day, and let me tell you, eating nothing but BLUE all day while listening to Bobby Vinton's "Blue Velvet" on a continuous loop from six a.m. to midnight will turn a poem out like little else. I'm calling the series "(Soma)tic Midge," for those interested. The possibilities for poetry really are endless. There is not a morning you wake up where you can't imagine some new way to the poems. CAConrad http://PhillySound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 03:41:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: aliens from space MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed aliens from space once the trick is discovered, it's discovered that the real is no trick. that is all that can be said about the real; there is much to be said about display and tricks. consider this trick, whose illusion is entirely transparent: there is no trick. or perhaps the trick is that there is no trick, that what is there is here, present, presencing. and it is clear as well that this presencing is the result of digital deconstruction: of what? of the vagaries of the wind which are apparent by virtue of timed mappings. that is to say: paths are chosen, or the parameters are chosen, and the rest follows. i would go so far as to argue that reality is a trick or masquerade, hiding nothing, the scaffolding such as it is. the question about a trick is how is it done, but the trick of the real is that it is never done, never performed; one characterizes the real as that which is never performed. here by the real i include reality, and by reality i include the real; think of this as irrelevant epistemological slides. still there is the wonder of the thing or process. it is the wonder of it that keeps it interesting; it is the wonder that implies that we ourselves and the trick are on the same side of the real, which is the real. http://www.asondheim.org/truesaucer.mp4 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 03:12:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: CA Conrad Subject: Re: on hearing of the American soldiers refusing to return to America after Iraq MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Elizabeth Kate Switaj, and others. Thank you for addressing the issues behind joining the armed services. And yes, while the men (and some women) of my family are brutal, war hungry souls, they've all joined primarily out of economic necessity. I come from a family of factory workers. Many of them worked in the casket factory near where I grew up, making coffins bound for every direction on the planet imaginable. But like many, many factories, it moved to Mexico, thanks to Bill Clinton. No one wants to think about NAFTA as being a Bill Clintonism, but, it is his hand being the one to finally push it through. And this while his wife was on the board of directors of Walmart (for 6 years she sat on that board), and she has very publicly (and more than once) referred to Sam Walton as a "great American." A GREAT AMERICAN!? Wow, the word GREAT is some kind of cartoon rubber in her mouth stretching clear around our eyes. And of course if you want to talk about the poorest of the poor, Bill Clinton's infamous Welfare Reform went right at the heart and soul of those who had little to lean on. You may recall his "Presidential Summit" in Philadelphia during his presidency? He had all of the living presidents (they waited for Nixon to die of course), and Nancy filling in for Ron, show up at the Philadelphia Convention Center to "celebrate" this most heinous of atrocities. At the time I was working for Metropolitan Bakery in Philadelphia, and we were "chosen" (so to speak) to be the providers of bread at this summit, and I worked that table with others. And I got hear the likes of Al Gore and Oprah Winfrey give mind blowing Herbert Hoover style speeches about the poor needing to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Oprah being the shining example of IF I CAN DO IT.... The ONLY one to make a speech about all of this that didn't fit into the package was Jimmy Carter. Carter was quite freaked out by the whole process of the summit and what the summit ultimately meant for millions of poor people. And I'm sure Carter received many an icy shoulder after saying what he had to say. The brutality against the poor is layered in so many ways in this country that it's become impossible to figure it all out. And we are the only country in the West to have private prisons being publicly traded on the stock market. And these prisons have an army of lobbyists in DC who are constantly pushing for tougher and tougher laws to hold people longer and longer. And while in these prisons people are working factory work which is from factories otherwise moved out of the states, leaving countless people on the "outside" without work, desperate, and turning to crime in many cases. And winding up in prison to do the job they lost on the "outside" when the factory went into the prison and/or down to Mexico. (This reminds me of walking down the streets of Philadelphia with poet Etheridge Knight after he got out of prison, his hands up in the air stating, "Now I'm in the BIG prison!") A couple years ago I had a rather strange argument with this hippie kid parking his VW bus with a bumper sticker on the back that said, "MORE JOBS? HOW ABOUT LESS PEOPLE!" And I asked him what he felt that meant to him. And we got to talking about factories moving to Mexico, to which he said, "Yeah but the people in Mexico need jobs too!" Yeah, but how do you explain, if you're so interested in the environmental side effects of a factory, closing down a factory in the states that had the EPA looking over its shoulder all the time to control pollution, and opening up one in Mexico where no such standards exist? Not only that, but you already had a factory, a series of buildings and structures that took many many resources to build and maintain, and now you literally blow that one up and dump it into a landfill and use even more resources to build a new one somewhere else. The poor and working classes have gotten shit on in every direction since Reagan, without stop, right on through with the Clinton years. Bill Clinton is no rock star of hope, he's a tyrant like the rest of them. And his wife is the same song trying to replay itself. Who cares about those blowjobs Bill got, I care about his blowhard years of annihilating people's lives. He had such a charming, disarming smile while doing it all though. If charm counts for something, that he had. CAConrad http://PhillySound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 05:44:41 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Beckett Subject: New at E-x-c-h-a-n-g-e-v-a-l-u-e-s.... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joseph Lease interviewed by Thomas Fink. http://willtoexchange.blogspot.com ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 05:42:07 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: QUEST In-Reply-To: <375000.14219.qm@web31004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MiPOesias presents -- Guest-Edited Issue QUEST Reading [ http://www.mipoesias.com/EVIESHOCKLEYISSUE ] ~~ GEOFFREY JACQUES ~~ TONYA FOSTER ~~ TARA BETTS ~~ MENDI OBADIKE ~~ Hosted by Evie Shockley, QUEST Editor Friday, August 31st @ 7:00 P.M. ____ GEOFFREY JACQUES is a poet and critic who writes about literature, the visual arts, and culture. His latest book of poems is Just For a Thrill (Wayne State University Press, 2005). His book of criticism, A Change in the Weather: Modernist Imagination, African American Imaginary, is forthcoming from the University of Massachusetts Press. His previous poetry collections include Hunger and Other Poems (1993) and Suspended Knowledge (1998). Jacques has taught at several colleges, including Lehman College of the City University of New York (CUNY) the University of Massachusetts Boston, Hunter College, CUNY, the New York School of Industrial and Labor Relations at Cornell University, and at Parsons School of Design. TONYA FOSTER is the author of Swarm of Bees in High Court(Belladonna, 2001), WaterTables (forthcoming, Portable Press @ YoYo Labs), co-editor of Third Mind: Teaching Writing through Visual Art. Poetry, essays, fiction, and reviews published in various journals and magazines. Recipient of fellowships from the Ford Foundation, the Woodrow Wilson Foundation, and the City University of New York. She has organized reading series and cultural events throughout New York City, and taught creative writing and literature courses at CCNY's Bridge to Medicine Program and at Cooper Union. TARA BETTS is a graduate of the New England College MFA Program and Cave Canem. Her work appears in several anthologies and journals, including Gathering Ground, Obsidian III and Essence. In addition to performing and reading her work across the country, she is a lecturer at Rutgers University in New Brunswick, NJ. She recently completed her full-length manuscript Infinite Arithmetic. MENDI OBADIKE is the author Armor and Flesh and the librettist of the The Sour Thunder. She works with composer / conceptual artist Keith Obadike. Together they have received the Rockefeller Media Arts Fellowship, a commission from the Whitney Museum, and one from Northwestern University to create a new work, Big House/ Disclosure, an intermedia suite featuring a 200-hour long house song. Mendi teaches at Princeton and lives in the New York area. ~~~~~~~~ STAIN BAR 766 Grand Street Brooklyn , NY 11211 (L train to Grand Street Stop, walk 1 block west) 718/387-7840 http://www.stainbar.com/ ~~~~~~~~ Read QUEST here ----> http://www.mipoesias.com/EVIESHOCKLEYISSUE/ Hope you'll stop by! Amy King Editor http://www.mipoesias.com **please forward** **apologies for cross-posting** --------------------------------- Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 06:25:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Tonight in Bryant Park, NYC In-Reply-To: <748929.91438.qm@web83314.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Forward on behalf of Evie Shockley: ------------------------ Good People, If an evening of poetry in the park sounds appealing to you, fortune is smiling on us both! : ) Here's your chance: I will be reading with poets Mónica de la Torre and Katie Ford on Tuesday, August 14th, at 6:30 p.m., in the Bryant Park Reading Series. Please come! Bring a friend! Bryant Park is located right behind the NYPL, on 42nd Street between 5th and 6th Avenues. Admission is FREE. For more info on the series, directions, etc., please go to: http://www.poets.org/page.php/prmID/383. For the poets' bios, go here: http://www.poets.org/page.php/prmID/384. Please feel free to forward this announcement to anyone who might be interested. Happy summer to you all -- Peace, \u003cspan class\u003dsg\>Evie\u003cbr /\>\u003c/span\>\u003c/div\>",1] ); //-->Evie ~~ --------------------------------- Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 06:26:20 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Kasimor Subject: Re: VERSE vol. 24, n=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=B0?= 1-3 : French Poetr y & Poetics In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Yes, Diane, I was referring to the 1978 edition. I just picked it up and was re-amazed by the poems in there. I don't think that many women were writing like that then--with the breath/breadth of your writing. The writing is both so wild and so tender. It is a wonderful book. MaryDiane DiPrima wrote: Thank you, Ruth and Barry and Mary. I have always believed the work finds its own way--anyone's work. Mary, you might want to know that the Loba now out with Penguin (horrible cover, by the way) is twice the length of the Wingbow Press edition ou are probably referring to (1978). It's Loba Books I & II. There's been more written since, but that's another story. Diane > From: Mary Kasimor > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 17:16:10 -0700 > To: > Subject: Re: VERSE vol. 24, n° 1-3 : French Poetr y & Poetics > > Yes, I have the book, Loba, that I've had for almost 30 years. It cost $5 when > I bought it. I've kept it through all my moves--and those have been many. > Mary > > Barry Schwabsky wrote: > Hear, hear. > > Ruth Lepson wrote: Diane di Prma, > > It's great to read yr posts since I have always thought you are a vastly > underappreciated poet--of course many do love your poetry but still... > > Good to have you with us, > > Ruth L. > > > On 8/13/07 2:22 PM, "Diane DiPrima" > wrote: > >> Mark, >> >> Thank you for asking that important question. For me, whether or not a book >> of translation is bilingual is a primary concern. Whether or not I know the >> language. Didn't that information used to be included more frequently than >> it is now? It's even left out of most reviews. One wants to know. >> >> Diane di Prima >> >> >>> From: Andrew Zawacki >>> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > >>> Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 13:39:50 -0400 >>> To: > >>> Subject: Re: VERSE vol. 24, n° 1-3 : French Poetry & Poetics >>> >>> Mark, >>> >>> The French originals are not included, unfortunately; already at 350+ pages, >>> the >>> issue would have become prohibitively expensive to print and distribute. >>> >>> Andrew >>> >>> >>> ---- Original message ---- >>>> Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 11:12:47 -0400 >>>> From: Mark Weiss >>>> Subject: Re: VERSE vol. 24, n° 1-3 : French Poetry & Poetics >>>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>>> >>>> Andrew: Can I assume that the French originals of the poems are included? >>>> >>>> Mark >>>> >>>> At 10:24 AM 8/13/2007, you wrote: >>>>> VERSE announces the release of volume 24, numbers 1-3: >>>>> >>>>> FRENCH POETRY & POETICS >>>>> >>>>> coedited by Abigail Lang & Andrew Zawacki. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> TEXTS by Pierre Alferi, Marie Borel, Oscarine >>>>> Bosquet, Olivier Cadiot, Suzanne >>>>> Doppelt, Caroline Dubois, Frédéric Forte, Dominique Fourcade, Jean >>> Frémon, >>>>> Michelle Grangaud, Emmanuel Hocquard, Philippe Jaccottet, Ian Monk, Anne >>>>> Parian, Anne Portugal, Jacqueline Risset, Jacques Roubaud, Claude Royet- >>>>> Journoud, Sébastien Smirou, Christophe Tarkos, & Bénédicte >>>>> Vilgrain. >>>>> >>>>> INTERVIEWS with Dominique Fourcade & Claude Royet-Journoud. >>>>> >>>>> ESSAYS by Craig Dworkin, Kevin Hart, & Jean-Jacques Poucel. >>>>> >>>>> TRANSLATORS for the issue are Guy Bennett, >>>>> Judith Bishop, Beverley Bie Brahic, >>>>> Peter Consenstein, Jennifer Dick, Steve Evans, Micaela Kramer, Anna >>>>> Moschovakis, Jennifer Moxley, Sarah Riggs, Eleni >>>>> Sikelianos, Cole Swensen, Keith >>>>> Waldrop, Rosmarie Waldrop, Chet Wiener, & Andrew Zawacki. >>>>> >>>>> BOOK REVIEWS: >>>>> >>>>> Timothy Donnelly on Stéphane Mallarmé; Tom Thompson on Charles >>> Baudelaire; >>>>> Michael Heller on Edmond Jabès; Ted Pearson on John Grosjean; Nathalie >>>>> Stephens on Béatrice Mousli; Rusty Morrison on Claude Royet-Journoud; >>>>> Beverley Bie Brahic on Jacques Roubaud; Eduardo Cadava on Suzanne >>> Doppelt; >>>>> Antoine Cazé on Valère Novarina; Eleni Sikelianos on Olivier Cadiot; >>> Dawn- >>>>> Michelle Baude on Esther Tellermann; Peter Ramos on Anne-Marie Albiach; >>>>> Judith Bishop on Gérard Macé; Laird Hunt on Serge Fauchereau; Chris >>>>> McDermott on Jean Frémon; Kevin Craft on Claire Malroux; Andrea Stevens >>> on >>>>> Emmanuel Moses; Paul Kane on Yves Bonnefoy; Chad Davidson on Jacques >>> Réda; >>>>> Michael Fagenblat on Michel Deguy; Jacques Khalip on Jean-Michel Maulpoix; >>>>> Kristen Prevallet on Valérie-Catherine Richez, >>>>> Marie Borel, & Isabelle Garron; >>>>> Nicholas Manning on Marie Borel; & Marcella Durand on Pascalle Monnier & >>>>> Jean-Michel Espitallier. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The triple issue will be launched in Paris in >>>>> late October. To order, please send >>>>> a check, payable to "Verse," to Andrew Zawacki; Department of English; >>>>> University of Georgia; Athens, GA 30602. Price per copy: $15 / 10€ / >>>>> £8. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Andrew Zawacki >>>>> DDepartment of English/ VERSE >>>>> University of Georgia >>>>> Athens, Georgia 30602 >>>>> (706) 542-3434 >>> >>> >>> Andrew Zawacki >>> Department of English/ VERSE >>> University of Georgia >>> Athens, Georgia 30602 >>> (706) 542-3434 > > > > --------------------------------- > Got a little couch potato? > Check out fun summer activities for kids. --------------------------------- Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 10:30:05 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cris cheek Subject: Re: creative writing praxis In-Reply-To: <46C12F34.4030908@hawaii.rr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ye Susan wholeheartedly agreed and here there is some resistance from some faculty to really examining pedagogy and reading lists and so forth (altho some colleagues are engaged in serious conversation on the same) i have worked a little with Hazel Smith's book . . and students responded well both to it and in themselves love and love cris On 8/14/07, Susan Webster Schultz wrote: > > Increasingly, MA students at UH are asking to take exams in Creative > Writing Pedagogy, and increasingly > I'm being asked to be an examiner in this field. As to what that field > might be, I'll perhaps know better after > conducting a directed reading with 5 or so grad and undergrad students > this coming semester. But my impression > is that the "literature" on the subject is flimsy, east coast centered, > mono-cultural, and generally speaking, pretty > unhelpful. > > I did find a decent introduction to the field here: > > _The Elephants Teach: Creative Writing Since 1880_, by David G. Myers. > I also like, as a tool, Hazel Smith's _The Writing Experiment_, though I > confess I haven't yet used it to teach by. > > But my strong sense is that there needs to me more and better writing on > the subject, because if the lists I'm seeing > are any indication, the field is pretty anemic. > > aloha, Susan > > who is watching: > > http://www.goes.noaa.gov/ha2.html > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 09:45:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Amish aside In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yikes, hold on a minute. I have a lot of Amish friends that live around us. While I too have some issues with various cultural assumptions within the Amish community, they are not all caught up in puppymills. We have more than a 100 Amish families as producer- members that work for our company & to even begin to be organically certified like all of them are, they have to meet fairly rigid standards of animal welfare. I do agree with you that it's a continuing absurdism to romanticism their lifestyle, but the families I know around here are good folks, always more than willing to help out others when they need it. ~mIEKAL On Aug 14, 2007, at 2:26 AM, CA Conrad wrote: > And the Amish everyone likes to think of as quaint, dear folk, are > some of > the worst when it comes to animal abuse of all kinds. I grew up in > rural > Pennsylvania and know all about these people. I've called them The > Nazi > Amish for years to the confusion of many ears. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 11:45:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "D. Wellman" Subject: Re: on hearing of the American soldiers refusing to return to America after Iraq MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for the breath of fresh air CA. I relate to so much of what you say, personally, as a one time military brat among other things. Back then, as my otherwise despicable old man said, the U.S. Army, with free, quality health care and excellent education for dependent children, and decent apartments for families and the food commissaries, offered the best socialism on the planet (who knows if he was right). Clearly the benefits that he loved have eroded vastly since 1962. Then there is the issue of casket companies. My first job was in the Granite State Coffin Company, in front of the third oven on the finishing line (speaking of sweaty slave labor), sanding gritty little bubbles from the surface, after the third coat of shellac, had baked onto the wood. All the labor there in Nashua New Hampshire, myself excepted, was Greek, Lithuanian, and Lebanese. That experience was the subject of my first published poem, "Inside the Granite State Hardwood Coffin Company" in Zahir, maybe in 1972. Granite State was purchased by Batesville, still the largest supplier of military caskets, and that factory like their other U.S. plants has relocated its production to Mexico. Now the old Granite State or Batesville factory is being converted with federal funds into apartments to warehouse the elderly. Donald Wellman http://faculty.dwc.edu/wellman/don.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "CA Conrad" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 4:12 AM Subject: Re: on hearing of the American soldiers refusing to return to America after Iraq > Elizabeth Kate Switaj, and others. Thank you for addressing the issues > behind joining the armed services. And yes, while the men (and some > women) > of my family are brutal, war hungry souls, they've all joined primarily > out > of economic necessity. I come from a family of factory workers. Many of > them worked in the casket factory near where I grew up, making coffins > bound > for every direction on the planet imaginable. > > But like many, many factories, it moved to Mexico, thanks to Bill Clinton. > No one wants to think about NAFTA as being a Bill Clintonism, but, it is > his > hand being the one to finally push it through. And this while his wife > was > on the board of directors of Walmart (for 6 years she sat on that board), > and she has very publicly (and more than once) referred to Sam Walton as a > "great American." A GREAT AMERICAN!? Wow, the word GREAT is some kind of > cartoon rubber in her mouth stretching clear around our eyes. > > And of course if you want to talk about the poorest of the poor, Bill > Clinton's infamous Welfare Reform went right at the heart and soul of > those > who had little to lean on. You may recall his "Presidential Summit" in > Philadelphia during his presidency? He had all of the living presidents > (they waited for Nixon to die of course), and Nancy filling in for Ron, > show > up at the Philadelphia Convention Center to "celebrate" this most heinous > of > atrocities. > > At the time I was working for Metropolitan Bakery in Philadelphia, and we > were "chosen" (so to speak) to be the providers of bread at this summit, > and > I worked that table with others. And I got hear the likes of Al Gore and > Oprah Winfrey give mind blowing Herbert Hoover style speeches about the > poor > needing to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Oprah being the > shining > example of IF I CAN DO IT.... The ONLY one to make a speech about all of > this that didn't fit into the package was Jimmy Carter. Carter was quite > freaked out by the whole process of the summit and what the summit > ultimately meant for millions of poor people. And I'm sure Carter > received > many an icy shoulder after saying what he had to say. > > The brutality against the poor is layered in so many ways in this country > that it's become impossible to figure it all out. And we are the only > country in the West to have private prisons being publicly traded on the > stock market. And these prisons have an army of lobbyists in DC who are > constantly pushing for tougher and tougher laws to hold people longer and > longer. And while in these prisons people are working factory work which > is > from factories otherwise moved out of the states, leaving countless people > on the "outside" without work, desperate, and turning to crime in many > cases. And winding up in prison to do the job they lost on the "outside" > when the factory went into the prison and/or down to Mexico. (This > reminds > me of walking down the streets of Philadelphia with poet Etheridge Knight > after he got out of prison, his hands up in the air stating, "Now I'm in > the > BIG prison!") > > A couple years ago I had a rather strange argument with this hippie kid > parking his VW bus with a bumper sticker on the back that said, "MORE > JOBS? > HOW ABOUT LESS PEOPLE!" And I asked him what he felt that meant to him. > And we got to talking about factories moving to Mexico, to which he said, > "Yeah but the people in Mexico need jobs too!" Yeah, but how do you > explain, if you're so interested in the environmental side effects of a > factory, closing down a factory in the states that had the EPA looking > over > its shoulder all the time to control pollution, and opening up one in > Mexico > where no such standards exist? Not only that, but you already had a > factory, a series of buildings and structures that took many many > resources > to build and maintain, and now you literally blow that one up and dump it > into a landfill and use even more resources to build a new one somewhere > else. > > The poor and working classes have gotten shit on in every direction since > Reagan, without stop, right on through with the Clinton years. Bill > Clinton > is no rock star of hope, he's a tyrant like the rest of them. And his > wife > is the same song trying to replay itself. > > Who cares about those blowjobs Bill got, I care about his blowhard years > of > annihilating people's lives. He had such a charming, disarming smile > while > doing it all though. If charm counts for something, that he had. > > CAConrad > http://PhillySound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 08:48:46 -0700 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Subject: Final Call Postmark 8/15/07 for PSP Transcontinental Award MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The Annual Transcontinental Poetry Award by Pavement Saw Press All contributors receive books, chapbooks and journals equal to, or more than, the entry fee. Please mention this to your friends and all others who might be interested! Electronic and mailed entries must meet these requirements: 1. The manuscript should be at least 48 pages of poetry and no more than 70 pages of poetry in length. Separations between sections are NOT a part of the page count. 2. A one page cover letter. Include a brief biography, the book's title, your name, address, and telephone number, and, if you have e-mail, your e-mail address. This should be followed by a page which lists publication acknowledgments for the book. For each acknowledgement mention the publisher (journal, anthology, chapbook etc.) and the poem published. 3. The manuscript should be bound with a single clip and begin with a title page including the book's title, your name, address, and telephone number, and, if you have e-mail, your e-mail address. 4. The second page should have only the title of the manuscript. There are to be no acknowledgments or mention of the author's name from this page forward. Submissions to the contest are blind judged. 5. There should be no more than one poem on each page. The manuscript can contain pieces longer than one page. 6. The manuscript should be paginated, beginning with the first page of poetry. Each year Pavement Saw Press will publish at least one book of poetry and/or prose poems from manuscripts received during this competition. Selections are chosen through a blind judging process. The competition is open to anyone who has not previously published a volume of poetry or prose. The author receives $1000 and five percent of the 1000 copy press run. Previous judges have included Judith Vollmer, David Bromige, Bin Ramke and Howard McCord. This year David Baratier will be the judge; past students, Pavement Saw Press interns and employees are not allowed to submit. All poems must be original, all prose must be original, fiction or translations are not acceptable. Writers who have had volumes of poetry and/or prose under 40 pages printed or printed in limited editions of no more than 500 copies are eligible. Submissions are accepted during the months of June, July, and until August 15th. All submissions must have an August 15th, 2007, or earlier, postmark. This is an award for first books only. If you wish to send via regular mail your manuscript should be accompanied by a check in the amount of $18.00 made payable to Pavement Saw Press. All US contributors to the contest will receive books, chapbooks and journals equal to, or more than, the entry fee. Add $3 (US) for other countries to cover the extra postal charge. Do not include an SASE for notification of results, this information will be sent with the free book. Do not send the only copy of your work. All manuscripts are recycled and individual comments on the manuscripts cannot be made. If you wish to submit electronically, you should send $25.00 via paypal to info@pavementsaw.org. We will then send you an e-mail confirmation as well as where to e-mail the manuscript. Electronic submissions need to be sent as PDF files or as word (.doc) files. Other formats are not accepted. The extra cost is to cover the paypal fees as well as the time, labor, ink, and so on, to print out your manuscript. In addition to the prize winner, sometimes another anonymous manuscript is chosen, if enough entries arrive. This “editors choice” manuscript will be published under a standard royalty contract. A decision will be reached in November. Entries should be sent to: Pavement Saw Press Transcontinental Award Entry P.O. Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 All submissions must have an August 15th, or earlier, postmark or paypal payment. Submissions are accepted during the months of June, July, and August only. If you have questions, please ask us: info@pavementsaw.org Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 10:58:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Skip Fox Subject: Re: creative writing praxis In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Susan, I, too, know little, and am very suspicious of it. Have not yet been called upon to write exams in the field (and since my colleagues know how I feel . . .). But, my god friend and colleague, Jerry McGuire (and a good poet, check Anny's site), instituted the cw pedagogy course for here at Univ. Louisiana at Lafayette, so I'll ask him when I see him and report back. By the way, being from south Louisiana, I know how Hawaii must be feeling now and the music you might be hearing. Hope it reduces and misses you. Meanwhile we have a depression we've been watching for a day now in the North Atlantic. It's beginning again, skip -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of cris cheek Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 9:30 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: creative writing praxis ye Susan wholeheartedly agreed and here there is some resistance from some faculty to really examining pedagogy and reading lists and so forth (altho some colleagues are engaged in serious conversation on the same) i have worked a little with Hazel Smith's book . . and students responded well both to it and in themselves love and love cris On 8/14/07, Susan Webster Schultz wrote: > > Increasingly, MA students at UH are asking to take exams in Creative > Writing Pedagogy, and increasingly > I'm being asked to be an examiner in this field. As to what that field > might be, I'll perhaps know better after > conducting a directed reading with 5 or so grad and undergrad students > this coming semester. But my impression > is that the "literature" on the subject is flimsy, east coast centered, > mono-cultural, and generally speaking, pretty > unhelpful. > > I did find a decent introduction to the field here: > > _The Elephants Teach: Creative Writing Since 1880_, by David G. Myers. > I also like, as a tool, Hazel Smith's _The Writing Experiment_, though I > confess I haven't yet used it to teach by. > > But my strong sense is that there needs to me more and better writing on > the subject, because if the lists I'm seeing > are any indication, the field is pretty anemic. > > aloha, Susan > > who is watching: > > http://www.goes.noaa.gov/ha2.html > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 12:49:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Danon Subject: Re: creative writing praxis In-Reply-To: <004201c7de8c$03a60c70$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear others; I'm quite interested in this thread. I am in charge of the creative writing program that I developed here in the McGhee Division. Our pedagogy is based on notions of improvisation and constraint (someone mentioned this before -- a la Oulipp. Chance operations, the Magic Worhops, surrealist games and so forth. In addition our practice is grounded in Winnicottian notions of play and Wittgentstein's notions of language games and speech acts. Our students take a Foundations course -- this involved them in meeting writers each week (one class) and engaging in improvisational writing each week (one class). Students then take studios (2) and workshops (2). They also take two Methods and Theory courses, one of which is a course in reading and literary influence. The other methods and theory course is an Advanced Improv class in which the students learn how to develop their own procedures for writing and also learn the theory that underpins the work they have done earlier in the program, They also write a senior project that has both a critical and creative component. This chunk of courses describes a concentration, not a major. Our students must major in humanities. Thus I want our students t take the bulk of their "major" courses in literature. Writers must read. Literature concentrators often take creative writing courses. A double concentration is quite usual and what distinguished the two concentrations is the kind of senior project that gets written and the methods and theory courses that are taken. The improvisational pedagogy is one I've developed over the years; I've trained most of our faculty. I might also add that our students are largely "non traditional" (what used to be called "adult" ) students and so the pedagogy that is most effective for them is not necessarily what is most effective for traditional age students. When I started the program in 1995 I knew that what I did not want was the conventional "workshop" model. The resuts of this experiment have been encouraging. In 1999 I started a summer program (2 weeks) based on my own theories about teaching and writing and that has been enormously successful. Many of the disntinguished guest teachers have commented on the fact that the students actually become better writers during the two weeks they spend with us. I hope this will be interesting to others. I'd love to have comments. Ruth Danon,Master Teacher, Creative and Expository Writing,McGhee Division, New York University ----- Original Message ----- From: Skip Fox Date: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 12:04 pm Subject: Re: creative writing praxis To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Susan, > > I, too, know little, and am very suspicious of it. Have not yet been called > upon to write exams in the field (and since my colleagues know how I > feel . > . .). > > But, my god friend and colleague, Jerry McGuire (and a good poet, check > Anny's site), instituted the cw pedagogy course for here at Univ. Louisiana > at Lafayette, so I'll ask him when I see him and report back. > > By the way, being from south Louisiana, I know how Hawaii must be feeling > now and the music you might be hearing. Hope it reduces and misses you. > > Meanwhile we have a depression we've been watching for a day now in the > North Atlantic. It's beginning again, > > skip > > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 09:29:38 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Amish Trivedi Subject: Re: Amish aside In-Reply-To: <38E9831C-24E7-4310-BD43-8B88D8C52B95@mwt.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit whew...I thought somebody was talking about me. I panicked! Amish (Ugh-Meesh) mIEKAL aND wrote: Yikes, hold on a minute. I have a lot of Amish friends that live around us. While I too have some issues with various cultural assumptions within the Amish community, they are not all caught up in puppymills. We have more than a 100 Amish families as producer- members that work for our company & to even begin to be organically certified like all of them are, they have to meet fairly rigid standards of animal welfare. I do agree with you that it's a continuing absurdism to romanticism their lifestyle, but the families I know around here are good folks, always more than willing to help out others when they need it. ~mIEKAL On Aug 14, 2007, at 2:26 AM, CA Conrad wrote: > And the Amish everyone likes to think of as quaint, dear folk, are > some of > the worst when it comes to animal abuse of all kinds. I grew up in > rural > Pennsylvania and know all about these people. I've called them The > Nazi > Amish for years to the confusion of many ears. "Christopher Columbus, as everyone knows, is honored by posterity because he was the last to discover America." -James Joyce ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 12:09:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Skip Fox Subject: Re: creative writing praxis In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I thought Susan was asking about graduate courses to prepare MFAs to = teach creative writing when they graduate. -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] = On Behalf Of Ruth Danon Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 11:49 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: creative writing praxis Dear others; I'm quite interested in this thread. I am in charge of the creative = writing program that I developed here in the McGhee Division.=20 Our pedagogy is based on notions of improvisation and constraint = (someone mentioned this before -- a la Oulipp. Chance=20 operations, the Magic Worhops, surrealist games and so forth. In = addition our practice is grounded in Winnicottian notions of=20 play and Wittgentstein's notions of language games and speech acts. Our students take a Foundations course -- this involved them in meeting writers each week (one class) and engaging in=20 improvisational writing each week (one class). Students then take = studios (2) and workshops (2). They also take two Methods=20 and Theory courses, one of which is a course in reading and literary influence. The other methods and theory course is an=20 Advanced Improv class in which the students learn how to develop their = own procedures for writing and also learn the theory=20 that underpins the work they have done earlier in the program, They also write a senior project that has both a critical and=20 creative component. This chunk of courses describes a concentration, not a major. Our = students must major in humanities. Thus I want our students t=20 take the bulk of their "major" courses in literature. Writers must read. Literature concentrators often take creative writing=20 courses. A double concentration is quite usual and what distinguished = the two concentrations is the kind of senior project that=20 gets written and the methods and theory courses that are taken. The improvisational pedagogy is one I've developed over the years; I've trained most of our faculty. I might also add that our=20 students are largely "non traditional" (what used to be called "adult" = ) students and so the pedagogy that is most effective for=20 them is not necessarily what is most effective for traditional age = students. When I started the program in 1995 I knew that what I did not want was = the conventional "workshop" model. The resuts of this=20 experiment have been encouraging. In 1999 I started a summer program (2 weeks) based on my own theories about teaching=20 and writing and that has been enormously successful. Many of the disntinguished guest teachers have commented on the fact=20 that the students actually become better writers during the two weeks = they spend with us. I hope this will be interesting to others. I'd love to have comments. Ruth Danon,Master Teacher, Creative and Expository Writing,McGhee = Division, New York University ----- Original Message ----- From: Skip Fox Date: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 12:04 pm Subject: Re: creative writing praxis To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Susan, >=20 > I, too, know little, and am very suspicious of it. Have not yet been called > upon to write exams in the field (and since my colleagues know how I=20 > feel . > . .). >=20 > But, my god friend and colleague, Jerry McGuire (and a good poet, = check > Anny's site), instituted the cw pedagogy course for here at Univ. Louisiana > at Lafayette, so I'll ask him when I see him and report back.=20 >=20 > By the way, being from south Louisiana, I know how Hawaii must be = feeling > now and the music you might be hearing. Hope it reduces and misses = you. >=20 > Meanwhile we have a depression we've been watching for a day now in = the > North Atlantic. It's beginning again, >=20 > skip >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [=20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 13:17:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: susan maurer Subject: Re: Condolences to Bob Holman and family In-Reply-To: <8C9ABEC9013E04C-FE4-8D3B@FWM-D36.sysops.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed bob, sorry to hear the sad news. susan maurer >From: William James Austin >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Condolences to Bob Holman and family >Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 14:11:54 -0400 > >Please?accept my own sincere condolences and best wishes, Bob.? Best, Bill > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Thomas savage >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Sent: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 11:15 am >Subject: Re: Condolences to Bob Holman and family > > > >To which I add my won. Elizabeth Murray was a great painter and a >beautiful, >generous person. She will be missed in many worlds. Regards, Tom Savage > >Halvard Johnson wrote: RIP Elizabeth Murray > > >http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/13/arts/design/13murray.html? >hp=&pagewanted=all > > >Halvard Johnson >================ >halvard@earthlink.net >http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html >http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >http://www.hamiltonstone.org >http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > >--------------------------------- >Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! >TV. > > >________________________________________________________________________ >AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free >from AOL at AOL.com. _________________________________________________________________ Puzzles, trivia teasers, word scrambles and more. Play for your chance to win! http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_hotmailtextlink ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 14:24:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: on hearing of the American soldiers refusing to return to America after Iraq In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit but clinton's charm is the problem. he's a narcissist, leaving behind a stream of embittered people, from women he hurt (incl his wife) to people who wnted to go into business w/ him only to find he had forgotten about them when he moved on to the next people to be charmed. he has many great ideas & is a genius at politics but his narcissism got him to make promises he didn't keep. for ex he sd during his campaign that if elected the first thing he'd do is help the haitian boat people--and he didn't. and rwanda--he himself says that was the big failure of his presidency--to allow that holocaust. the blow jobs are very important--the personal is political--he cheated on his wife & hurt her--and if you don't think that influenced his politics, or was his politics, well...I disagree. his globalization stand is anothere ex of promises, promises, then a sea change when expedient. On 8/14/07 4:12 AM, "CA Conrad" wrote: > Elizabeth Kate Switaj, and others. Thank you for addressing the issues > behind joining the armed services. And yes, while the men (and some women) > of my family are brutal, war hungry souls, they've all joined primarily out > of economic necessity. I come from a family of factory workers. Many of > them worked in the casket factory near where I grew up, making coffins bound > for every direction on the planet imaginable. > > But like many, many factories, it moved to Mexico, thanks to Bill Clinton. > No one wants to think about NAFTA as being a Bill Clintonism, but, it is his > hand being the one to finally push it through. And this while his wife was > on the board of directors of Walmart (for 6 years she sat on that board), > and she has very publicly (and more than once) referred to Sam Walton as a > "great American." A GREAT AMERICAN!? Wow, the word GREAT is some kind of > cartoon rubber in her mouth stretching clear around our eyes. > > And of course if you want to talk about the poorest of the poor, Bill > Clinton's infamous Welfare Reform went right at the heart and soul of those > who had little to lean on. You may recall his "Presidential Summit" in > Philadelphia during his presidency? He had all of the living presidents > (they waited for Nixon to die of course), and Nancy filling in for Ron, show > up at the Philadelphia Convention Center to "celebrate" this most heinous of > atrocities. > > At the time I was working for Metropolitan Bakery in Philadelphia, and we > were "chosen" (so to speak) to be the providers of bread at this summit, and > I worked that table with others. And I got hear the likes of Al Gore and > Oprah Winfrey give mind blowing Herbert Hoover style speeches about the poor > needing to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Oprah being the shining > example of IF I CAN DO IT.... The ONLY one to make a speech about all of > this that didn't fit into the package was Jimmy Carter. Carter was quite > freaked out by the whole process of the summit and what the summit > ultimately meant for millions of poor people. And I'm sure Carter received > many an icy shoulder after saying what he had to say. > > The brutality against the poor is layered in so many ways in this country > that it's become impossible to figure it all out. And we are the only > country in the West to have private prisons being publicly traded on the > stock market. And these prisons have an army of lobbyists in DC who are > constantly pushing for tougher and tougher laws to hold people longer and > longer. And while in these prisons people are working factory work which is > from factories otherwise moved out of the states, leaving countless people > on the "outside" without work, desperate, and turning to crime in many > cases. And winding up in prison to do the job they lost on the "outside" > when the factory went into the prison and/or down to Mexico. (This reminds > me of walking down the streets of Philadelphia with poet Etheridge Knight > after he got out of prison, his hands up in the air stating, "Now I'm in the > BIG prison!") > > A couple years ago I had a rather strange argument with this hippie kid > parking his VW bus with a bumper sticker on the back that said, "MORE JOBS? > HOW ABOUT LESS PEOPLE!" And I asked him what he felt that meant to him. > And we got to talking about factories moving to Mexico, to which he said, > "Yeah but the people in Mexico need jobs too!" Yeah, but how do you > explain, if you're so interested in the environmental side effects of a > factory, closing down a factory in the states that had the EPA looking over > its shoulder all the time to control pollution, and opening up one in Mexico > where no such standards exist? Not only that, but you already had a > factory, a series of buildings and structures that took many many resources > to build and maintain, and now you literally blow that one up and dump it > into a landfill and use even more resources to build a new one somewhere > else. > > The poor and working classes have gotten shit on in every direction since > Reagan, without stop, right on through with the Clinton years. Bill Clinton > is no rock star of hope, he's a tyrant like the rest of them. And his wife > is the same song trying to replay itself. > > Who cares about those blowjobs Bill got, I care about his blowhard years of > annihilating people's lives. He had such a charming, disarming smile while > doing it all though. If charm counts for something, that he had. > > CAConrad > http://PhillySound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 15:59:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sina Queyras Subject: Re: on hearing of the American soldiers refusing to return to America after Iraq In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit CA, Love these posts...the snippet of Etheridge Knight...your hair post...your refusal to be business as usual. Which alas has become business as usual. SQ > Elizabeth Kate Switaj, and others. Thank you for addressing the issues > behind joining the armed services. And yes, while the men (and some > women) > of my family are brutal, war hungry souls, they've all joined primarily > out > of economic necessity. I come from a family of factory workers. Many of > them worked in the casket factory near where I grew up, making coffins > bound > for every direction on the planet imaginable. > > But like many, many factories, it moved to Mexico, thanks to Bill Clinton. > No one wants to think about NAFTA as being a Bill Clintonism, but, it is > his > hand being the one to finally push it through. And this while his wife > was > on the board of directors of Walmart (for 6 years she sat on that board), > and she has very publicly (and more than once) referred to Sam Walton as a > "great American." A GREAT AMERICAN!? Wow, the word GREAT is some kind of > cartoon rubber in her mouth stretching clear around our eyes. > > And of course if you want to talk about the poorest of the poor, Bill > Clinton's infamous Welfare Reform went right at the heart and soul of > those > who had little to lean on. You may recall his "Presidential Summit" in > Philadelphia during his presidency? He had all of the living presidents > (they waited for Nixon to die of course), and Nancy filling in for Ron, > show > up at the Philadelphia Convention Center to "celebrate" this most heinous > of > atrocities. > > At the time I was working for Metropolitan Bakery in Philadelphia, and we > were "chosen" (so to speak) to be the providers of bread at this summit, > and > I worked that table with others. And I got hear the likes of Al Gore and > Oprah Winfrey give mind blowing Herbert Hoover style speeches about the > poor > needing to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Oprah being the > shining > example of IF I CAN DO IT.... The ONLY one to make a speech about all of > this that didn't fit into the package was Jimmy Carter. Carter was quite > freaked out by the whole process of the summit and what the summit > ultimately meant for millions of poor people. And I'm sure Carter > received > many an icy shoulder after saying what he had to say. > > The brutality against the poor is layered in so many ways in this country > that it's become impossible to figure it all out. And we are the only > country in the West to have private prisons being publicly traded on the > stock market. And these prisons have an army of lobbyists in DC who are > constantly pushing for tougher and tougher laws to hold people longer and > longer. And while in these prisons people are working factory work which > is > from factories otherwise moved out of the states, leaving countless people > on the "outside" without work, desperate, and turning to crime in many > cases. And winding up in prison to do the job they lost on the "outside" > when the factory went into the prison and/or down to Mexico. (This > reminds > me of walking down the streets of Philadelphia with poet Etheridge Knight > after he got out of prison, his hands up in the air stating, "Now I'm in > the > BIG prison!") > > A couple years ago I had a rather strange argument with this hippie kid > parking his VW bus with a bumper sticker on the back that said, "MORE > JOBS? > HOW ABOUT LESS PEOPLE!" And I asked him what he felt that meant to him. > And we got to talking about factories moving to Mexico, to which he said, > "Yeah but the people in Mexico need jobs too!" Yeah, but how do you > explain, if you're so interested in the environmental side effects of a > factory, closing down a factory in the states that had the EPA looking > over > its shoulder all the time to control pollution, and opening up one in > Mexico > where no such standards exist? Not only that, but you already had a > factory, a series of buildings and structures that took many many > resources > to build and maintain, and now you literally blow that one up and dump it > into a landfill and use even more resources to build a new one somewhere > else. > > The poor and working classes have gotten shit on in every direction since > Reagan, without stop, right on through with the Clinton years. Bill > Clinton > is no rock star of hope, he's a tyrant like the rest of them. And his > wife > is the same song trying to replay itself. > > Who cares about those blowjobs Bill got, I care about his blowhard years > of > annihilating people's lives. He had such a charming, disarming smile > while > doing it all though. If charm counts for something, that he had. > > CAConrad > http://PhillySound.blogspot.com > -- Sina Queyras Visiting Assistant Professor Department of English Woodside Cottage Haverford College 370 Lancaster Avenue Haverford, PA 19041-1392 (610) 896-1256 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 13:54:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Matt Timmons Subject: Reminder: Fold Appropriate Text Release Party Aug 17 and 18 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Fold Appropriate Release Party! Friday August 17 at 7:30pm at Betalevel in Chinatown, Los Angeles http://betalevel.com/2007/08/17/fold-appropriate-release/ Saturday August 18 at 7:30pm at Pegasus Books in downtown Berkeley http://www.pegasusbookstore.com/ Come celebrate the release of the first issue of FOLD MAGAZINE, Fold Appropriate Text, published by Insert Press (http://InsertPress.net). Featuring readings by Harold Abramowitz, Franklin Bruno, Guy Bennett, Teresa Carmody, Marcus Civin, Jen Hofer, Vanessa Place, Michael Smoler and more. Plus you can buy yourself a copy of this gorgeous literary journal at a discount (very exciting)! If you're going to be in San Francisco on Saturday, August 18 at 7:30pm, join us for another launch party at Pegasus Books in downtown Berkeley and hear readings by Franklin Bruno, K. Lorraine Graham, William Moor, Mathew Timmons, and Mark Wallace. The emphasis of this issue is on the use of borrowed, stolen, plundered, reused, retooled and/or sampled texts to create literature. Our intent is to present the work of writers who use text which they did not originate and do not own or own only by virtue of appropriation. Contributors to Fold Appropriate Text are: Harold Abramowitz, Guy Bennett, Franklin Bruno, Teresa Carmody, Marcus Civin, Katie Degentesh, Drew Gardner, Nada Gordon, K. Lorraine Graham, Jen Hofer, Mark Hoover, Mike Magee, Sharon Mesmer, K. Silem Mohammad, William Moor, Bruna Mori, JeffreyJoe Nelson, Vanessa Place, Dan Richert, Rod Smith, Michael Smoler, Mark Wallace Insert Press is edited by Stan Apps and Mathew Timmons. Insert Press has published chapbooks THREE COLUMN TABLE by Harold Abramowitz and ABSURD GOOD NEWS by Julien Poirier. HANDSOME FISH OFFICES by Ara Shirinyan, the first perfectbound book published by Insert Press is forthcoming. Visit InsertPress[dot]Net for more information and to purchase fine literature. http://InsertPress.net - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Directions to Betalevel 1. Find yourself in front of "FULL HOUSE RESTAURANT" located at 963 N. Hill Street in Chinatown, Los Angeles 2. Locate the narrow alley on the left hand side of Full House. 3. Walk about 20 feet down the alley (away from the street). 4. Stop. 5. Notice dumpster on your right hand side. 6. Take a right and continue down the alley. 7. Exercise caution so as not trip on the wobbly cement blocks underfoot 8. The entrance to Betalevel is located 10 yards down on left side, behind a red door, down a black staircase. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 14:54:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Matt Timmons Subject: on behalf of Stan Apps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Stan Apps and Ryan Daley will be reading poetry next Sunday, the 19th, at Unnameable Books in Park Slope, Brooklyn, at 8 PM. The address is 456 Bergen St, which is close to the Bergen St. 2-3 Train, between 5th Ave and Flatbush. Stan will be reading from two new books, Info Ration from Make Now Press, and Princess of the World in Love from Cy Press. This is the first time these books will be unveiled in New York City. Ryan is a new arrival in NYC, and will be reading from his first book, Armored Elevator (BlazeVOX, 2007). Info about Stan's new books is at http://www.makenow.org/books.htm and http://www.cypresspoetry.com/ . Info about Ryan's book is at http://www.blazevox.org/bk-rd.htm . Info about Unnameable Books is at http://www.unnameablebooks.net/ Here are blurbs about the writers: Stan Apps is a poet, essayist, and spiritual intermediary. His books include soft hands (Ugly Duckling Press, 2005), Info Ration (Make Now Press, 2007) and Princess of the World in Love (Cy Press, 2007). A book of essays is forthcoming from Combo Arts and a book of theological opinion is forthcoming from Les Figues Press. Stan has recently moved from Los Angeles to Tampa, Florida, which is not similar to Los Angeles. Stan's work has been described by several people, among them K. Silem Mohammad, who writes that "Apps is heroically unafraid to push past the obvious consequences of becoming-involved, and into the really lonely spaces of intense communicative dysfunction that allow us to stop right in the middle of a sentence if another one suddenly seems more interesting. Once this is possible, everything seems correct." A recent arrival in New York City, Ryan is part of Homeland Security's plan to keep New York safe. His work has appeared in JACKET magazine and Combo. His study of superstructures, and first book, ARMORED ELEVATOR, was published by BlazeVOX Books this year. Mike Magee has said that, "Ryan Daley writes like a traveler who's never seen an airport in his life..But fear not! Daley speaks the pidgin of many a safe haven and after hours joint. A bad fit for the 'coterie of alphabetical choir guys,' he's our best hope for finding the real murderer." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 19:45:52 -0400 Reply-To: pamelabeth@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pam Grossman Subject: Re: on hearing of the American soldiers refusing to return to America after Iraq Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i remember that he said he'd legalize gays in the military; and we ended up with "don't ask, don't tell," a terrible quasi-compromise. i'm sorry to admit that i was somewhat taken in by clinton's charm and "slept" a bit, politically, through many issues of the 90s (i remember a friend taking me to task for not staying abreast of the welfare-reform bill; and he was right, i should have). it took the unmissable ugliness of this president, and this presidency, to wake me up again. -----Original Message----- >From: Ruth Lepson >Sent: Aug 14, 2007 2:24 PM >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: on hearing of the American soldiers refusing to return to America after Iraq > >but clinton's charm is the problem. he's a narcissist, leaving behind a >stream of embittered people, from women he hurt (incl his wife) to people >who wnted to go into business w/ him only to find he had forgotten about >them when he moved on to the next people to be charmed. he has many great >ideas & is a genius at politics but his narcissism got him to make promises >he didn't keep. for ex he sd during his campaign that if elected the first >thing he'd do is help the haitian boat people--and he didn't. and rwanda--he >himself says that was the big failure of his presidency--to allow that >holocaust. the blow jobs are very important--the personal is political--he >cheated on his wife & hurt her--and if you don't think that influenced his >politics, or was his politics, well...I disagree. his globalization stand is >anothere ex of promises, promises, then a sea change when expedient. > > >On 8/14/07 4:12 AM, "CA Conrad" wrote: > >> Elizabeth Kate Switaj, and others. Thank you for addressing the issues >> behind joining the armed services. And yes, while the men (and some women) >> of my family are brutal, war hungry souls, they've all joined primarily out >> of economic necessity. I come from a family of factory workers. Many of >> them worked in the casket factory near where I grew up, making coffins bound >> for every direction on the planet imaginable. >> >> But like many, many factories, it moved to Mexico, thanks to Bill Clinton. >> No one wants to think about NAFTA as being a Bill Clintonism, but, it is his >> hand being the one to finally push it through. And this while his wife was >> on the board of directors of Walmart (for 6 years she sat on that board), >> and she has very publicly (and more than once) referred to Sam Walton as a >> "great American." A GREAT AMERICAN!? Wow, the word GREAT is some kind of >> cartoon rubber in her mouth stretching clear around our eyes. >> >> And of course if you want to talk about the poorest of the poor, Bill >> Clinton's infamous Welfare Reform went right at the heart and soul of those >> who had little to lean on. You may recall his "Presidential Summit" in >> Philadelphia during his presidency? He had all of the living presidents >> (they waited for Nixon to die of course), and Nancy filling in for Ron, show >> up at the Philadelphia Convention Center to "celebrate" this most heinous of >> atrocities. >> >> At the time I was working for Metropolitan Bakery in Philadelphia, and we >> were "chosen" (so to speak) to be the providers of bread at this summit, and >> I worked that table with others. And I got hear the likes of Al Gore and >> Oprah Winfrey give mind blowing Herbert Hoover style speeches about the poor >> needing to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Oprah being the shining >> example of IF I CAN DO IT.... The ONLY one to make a speech about all of >> this that didn't fit into the package was Jimmy Carter. Carter was quite >> freaked out by the whole process of the summit and what the summit >> ultimately meant for millions of poor people. And I'm sure Carter received >> many an icy shoulder after saying what he had to say. >> >> The brutality against the poor is layered in so many ways in this country >> that it's become impossible to figure it all out. And we are the only >> country in the West to have private prisons being publicly traded on the >> stock market. And these prisons have an army of lobbyists in DC who are >> constantly pushing for tougher and tougher laws to hold people longer and >> longer. And while in these prisons people are working factory work which is >> from factories otherwise moved out of the states, leaving countless people >> on the "outside" without work, desperate, and turning to crime in many >> cases. And winding up in prison to do the job they lost on the "outside" >> when the factory went into the prison and/or down to Mexico. (This reminds >> me of walking down the streets of Philadelphia with poet Etheridge Knight >> after he got out of prison, his hands up in the air stating, "Now I'm in the >> BIG prison!") >> >> A couple years ago I had a rather strange argument with this hippie kid >> parking his VW bus with a bumper sticker on the back that said, "MORE JOBS? >> HOW ABOUT LESS PEOPLE!" And I asked him what he felt that meant to him. >> And we got to talking about factories moving to Mexico, to which he said, >> "Yeah but the people in Mexico need jobs too!" Yeah, but how do you >> explain, if you're so interested in the environmental side effects of a >> factory, closing down a factory in the states that had the EPA looking over >> its shoulder all the time to control pollution, and opening up one in Mexico >> where no such standards exist? Not only that, but you already had a >> factory, a series of buildings and structures that took many many resources >> to build and maintain, and now you literally blow that one up and dump it >> into a landfill and use even more resources to build a new one somewhere >> else. >> >> The poor and working classes have gotten shit on in every direction since >> Reagan, without stop, right on through with the Clinton years. Bill Clinton >> is no rock star of hope, he's a tyrant like the rest of them. And his wife >> is the same song trying to replay itself. >> >> Who cares about those blowjobs Bill got, I care about his blowhard years of >> annihilating people's lives. He had such a charming, disarming smile while >> doing it all though. If charm counts for something, that he had. >> >> CAConrad >> http://PhillySound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 08:55:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Stricker Subject: nanomajority #4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Announcing issue #4 of nanomajority (www.nanomajority.com): *** Penny Leong Browne 'i' Cyborg 1.1 Experiments in Random Control: "I don't remember" In 'i' Cyborg 1.1 Experiments in Random Control, fragmented and repetitive narrative forms are used to explore the legitimacy of language within cybernetic systems, in this case, the Internet. The narratives, presented as textual performances of a cyborg self, are constructed using text fragments generated from entering various three word search terms beginning with 'I' into blog search engines. At first, the viewer is compelled to read the narrative as a cohesive work yet the performative acts of textual repetition of the search phrase exposes the nonsense of the narrative, subsequently challenging the legitimacy of the text as meaningful. *** Olivia Cronk poems These poems all respond to a comment made by one of my students during a discussion of Dickinson (informed, in part, by a parallel one of Kafka). While we examined a line, the student grew visibly frustrated with the (narrow) focus of our comments. Exasperated, she exclaimed, "But we have no idea what comes before or after that poem. We don't know the secret or imaginary poem she cut away." Since then, I have been making of my poems a blooded attempt at creating the imaginary poems that precede and follow them. The imaginary ones, like evidence of wind, can only be observed by the words they ruffle. Kind reader, it is your job to find said secrets, in the roughness of your own wonderfully bizarre brainscape. *** Lara Odell Outlimb: Artist Statements & Stills 1. As a means to heal the phantom pain, the limb is shortened, again =96 as if the limb was at fault. What I can't say isn't apparent in the painting, but for me, the desire to escape genre could be likened to the desire to transcend gender. How many times do I have to say it? "It isn't futile; it's about futility." Things that arrive on a conveyor belt, that you eat, half-dead by the machinery alone. "Run your potatoes through a metal sieve, for more iron." The sun is over-exposed, and as a result, so is everything in its way. Light should be measured by volume, so it can be turned down, to just the right temperature. Editing, erasure, and the paradox of things coming into being. The edges were wet from premature decay, weather damaged. There had been too much handling, you could tell, so we just had to leave it alone. The miracles of progress, of puberty. Industrial suits, protective rubber shoes, insulation powder. Camouflage as therapy. What did you say about contamination? It had a metallic taste to it. Can we shoot a close-up of that? The border was wide, like water, but I can't remember how it felt when my ear drum collapsed. To stand in the middle of a room, everyone else looking in; it was like being folded into an envelope and never waking up until I arrived. The stillness of travel, the sleepiness of a letter; sealed within a pocket of time. Shopping for the right fit, I extended myself. Please, leave me unattended. An accumulation of earnestness, of vulnerability, apprehensive of the laughs to come. Granted, my pupils can't physically get any smaller, though I try. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 09:26:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "J.P. Craig" Subject: Re: creative writing praxis In-Reply-To: <46C12F34.4030908@hawaii.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed I don't know if this fits, but there's the Palgrave Poetry and Pedagogy that came out recently. I've found it interesting. I'm going to be presenting with some friends from Iowa at the Midwest Writing Center Association conference this fall on using writing center techniques to teach creative writing. Specifically, we're trying to find and discuss alternative to the "workshop" model that we found lacking because, in my case, it was far too limiting on students' output, too product-oriented and normative. I'd really be interested in the lists you've generated so far, both of the helpful and unhelpful materials. Are these MA comps exams? Or is it some sort of certification exam aborning (as if an MA comps exam isn't, I suppose). I'm really interested in this primarily because I like teaching writing, and though I tend to be paid for teaching comp or ESL, I like encouraging and assisting young creative writers too. I'm also interested because my M.F.A. experience was unhelpful to my writing. I found the PhD in literature to be much more helpful to my writing, but then again I'm a sort of bookish person and not particularly successful as a professional poet. I wonder if things like Bernadette Mayer's experiment or other lists of procedures could be considered as pedagogical theory for poets? Are books like Koch's Wishes Lies and Dreams, though aimed at children, be considered useful pedagogical theory for us (maybe too East Coast for your needs?). I guess this move may be a tired one, but it's still useful: I'm asking if this is an opportunity to broaden what we might consider a poetry pedagogy text. Does it overlap literature; can we include A Test of Poetry, How to Write, and so on? On Aug 14, 2007, at 12:27 AM, Susan Webster Schultz wrote: > Increasingly, MA students at UH are asking to take exams in > Creative Writing Pedagogy, and increasingly > I'm being asked to be an examiner in this field. As to what that > field might be, I'll perhaps know better after > conducting a directed reading with 5 or so grad and undergrad > students this coming semester. But my impression > is that the "literature" on the subject is flimsy, east coast > centered, mono-cultural, and generally speaking, pretty > unhelpful. > > I did find a decent introduction to the field here: > > _The Elephants Teach: Creative Writing Since 1880_, by David G. Myers. > I also like, as a tool, Hazel Smith's _The Writing Experiment_, > though I confess I haven't yet used it to teach by. > > But my strong sense is that there needs to me more and better > writing on the subject, because if the lists I'm seeing > are any indication, the field is pretty anemic. > > aloha, Susan > > who is watching: > > http://www.goes.noaa.gov/ha2.html JP Craig http://jpcraig.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 09:30:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: CA Conrad Subject: Re: on hearing of the American soldiers refusing to return to America after Iraq MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Donald HOLY SHIT, is this a conspiracy!? You talk about the Granite State Hardwood Coffin Factory being converted into homes for the elderly! About a year and a half ago I drove my friend Frank Sherlock and others out to where I grew up. More than anything I wanted to see the old coffin factory, The Boyertown Casket Factory, so I drove us out there, only to discover that IT WAS CONVERTED INTO AN OLD FOLKS HOME! It was so creepy, especially because it was late at night. And Frank said, "WHAT!? They're working in reverse now!" And for years my friends had heard the stories of the KKK running the town (it's all true, and they still do), and we went to the giant farmers market where the KKK sells its patches right out in the open. A few years ago the poet Marcella Durand gave a reading in Philadelphia the same week that she had relatives moving near to where I grew up. I told her about the KKK, and what it was like, and she acted like I was nuts, or making it up. Well, it didn't take long for her to find out on her own, and the next time I saw her she was horrified by the incredible racism, anti-Semitism and homophobia out there. My mother and I landed in that town when I was four, from a previous marriage, and I was kind of a wild kid. We had lived in her car for a little over half a year as vagrants, staying at churches, with hippy friends, The Salvation Army (where they literally make you sing hymns for your supper) before making it to Boyertown, and that town was owned and run by the Pennsylvania Dutch, a very serious, stoic bunch. The Conrad family, who literally adopted us, went about its business of trying to tame me, to no avail, thank god. But I remember riding my little bicycle up to the factory, and my aunt Darlene was carrying a very small coffin to the loading dock, and I asked her who that one was for. She never really liked me or my mother, and she yelled in her thick German accent, "HEADED FOR OKLAHOMA! SOME YOUNGSTER OUT THERE WHO DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO BEHAVE HIMSELF!" "What was his name?" "NEVER YOU MIND HIS NAME! GEET BACK TO THE HAUS CREEK!" My name is Craig, but they could only pronounce it as Creek. This whole thing cracks me up now of course, but at the time I remember always feeling like I had committed a crime, or something. HEHEHE! My best memories of that factory are when they would let us in at Halloween. My mother has a picture of me in a vampire costume with my arms folded over my chest in a coffin. Another of me sitting up in the coffin showing my fangs and claws. I think I liked the coffin factory a little too much. Oh, and then there's my first kiss believe it or not. Being queer in the paranoid KKK regions of rural Pennsylvania is no joke. But my boyfriend Jason and I knew that no one went near the factory at night. It was deserted, and the perfect spot. Experiencing first Love pressed against a coffin factory's walls seems all too appropriate. It sets the mood directly in alignment with a sudden and spastic notion of life being NOW, you know what I mean? Oh, and I smoked a lot of dope behind that factory, and even tried to grow some pot back there once, but someone found it and cut it all down. Fucking bastards! HEHEHE! The poet Yuri Hospodar also grew up in this town, and also had family working there, something we discussed at a fever's pitch in Kevin Killian and Dodie Bellamy's apartment about six months ago, having not seen one another in person since high school. Yuri was a couple years ahead of me, editing the school magazine. We were both of course closeted for excellent reasons, such as not wanting to be murdered. But it was great to talk about these things with Yuri because I've been away so long that sometimes the brutality and paranoia of it all seems too dream-like to have really happened. My cousin Jonas, also queer, and about 10 years older than me, knows better details of this than I do, but we have a cousin named David Conrad who used to be Dolly Conrad. And Dolly worked in the coffin factory when she decided to have the sex change, and remained working there after she came back David. David was not allowed to use the women's room, nor the men's room, and instead had to use a hole in the floor of the janitor's closet that went to the sewer. David was my hero for a long time, someone with guts who was threatened by the Klan and others, always an outsider, always ready to die in order to stay alive in the world the way he wanted to be. But later I found out that he went to jail for beating up his girlfriends, and then he became nothing more than just another asshole man in town. Oh and Donald, it's weird too how different generations of army people react to one another. My grandfather fought in WW2, and was kind of full of himself. Actually he was a tyrant asshole. And as a little kid I recall my uncle Dennis being incapable of attending family functions from his post traumatic stress disorder from his time served in Vietnam. My grandfather called him a pussy, literally, more than once. And he even said that if he and his buddies had been in Vietnam that the war would have been won. What a jerkoff. CAConrad http://PhillySound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 08:10:33 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: creative writing praxis In-Reply-To: <128BB661-521E-4EE3-8B43-255489E3ADB5@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline unfortunately, most of the exercise books and form books out there are passing for text for teaching writing, rather than as books of... forms and exercises... a lot of poetry books (individual volumes and anthologies) are assigned in order to serve as examples for exercises like this too AWP has an annual "Pedagogy Papers" publication and forum which (used to at least) largely consist of writing exercises typed out on departmental letterhead by junior faculty a bit of promo: see my TO DELITE AND INSTRUCT (blue lion books, 2006) for poetry made against these, and with misunderstood perception exercises (among other things) > I wonder if things like Bernadette Mayer's experiment or other lists > of procedures could be considered as pedagogical theory for poets? > Are books like Koch's Wishes Lies and Dreams, though aimed at > children, be considered useful pedagogical theory for us (maybe too > East Coast for your needs?). I guess this move may be a tired one, > but it's still useful: I'm asking if this is an opportunity to > broaden what we might consider a poetry pedagogy text. Does it > overlap literature; can we include A Test of Poetry, How to Write, > and so on? -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly@gmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 10:16:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: CA Conrad Subject: Re: Amish aside MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline mIEKAL, it's certainly good to hear that there really are Amish in the world like the ones near you. Wow, how about that? And of course while it seems that I'm generalizing, because I am, it's also true that the Amish of rural Pennsylvania have a very tight world, and are all knowingly part of, and complicit in the brutality of animals. Puppy mills are what you chose to focus on. Puppy mills are only the tip of iceberg. My cousin Jonas got his degree in German Studies and lived with an Amish clan in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, and it literally turned him into a vegetarian. The TOTAL disregard for the welfare of animals is apparent in Lancaster County's Amish. They will work a horse in the field until it drops dead. My good friend Steven Fries is a chiropractor for animals in Philadelphia. When we first met we bonded over our distrust and anger for the Amish because of what we both know about their treatment of animals. He has done much equestrian work over the years, and he's said if you ever want to see anything that can possibly be wrong with a horse you need to visit Lancaster Country. The dominion over the animals from the bible to the sharp edges of their bonnets. Pigs, chickens, all treated with equal brutality. And yes the puppy mills. The Amish are our nation's LEADING puppy mill providers with the highest count of violations to date. This year alone in Lancaster County the Amish have been arrested by inspectors for finding conditions so unbearable that some puppies were both dead and close to death. It's good too to hear the Amish near you are interested in growing organic foods. Not in Lancaster County. My cousin Jonas and I drove through the county once and he pointed out the eerie blue, gray color of the vegetation, and told me it was the No-Till Spray. They jump on every experimental chemical product through government or corporate sponsored programs. And nothing's creepier out in the country than miles of fields with the No-Till Spray, it's like chemical warfare. Well, it IS chemical warfare! But once again it is good to hear that there are Amish elsewhere who have chosen to live the way most of the world chooses to believe that they live. Thanks for letting me know. CAConrad http://PhillySound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 08:51:48 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: On the Road at 50 - Jack Kerouac - Books - New York Times MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/15/books/15kero.html?_r=1&ref=arts&oref=slogin --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 11:57:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: yes well jazz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed yes well jazz more swirled tricks bringing the eclipse home http://www.asondheim.org/trane.mp4 beauty interests me because it's a beautiful masquerade every masquerade is beautiful i'm unbearably exhausted and will continue this on the morrow this is the morrow and i'm not sure about the piece the initial impetus is gone and perhaps it was never there nature appears to disappear in a similar fashion but nature is always a site of contestation is it not certainly the swirled tricks are unnatural are they not or barely worth watching, the swirled tracks ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 11:46:08 -0400 Reply-To: arippeon@buffalo.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Rippeon Subject: P-QUEUE, vol. 4 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Dear Friends,=20 Please help us celebrate the release of P-Queue, vol. 4! In Chicago (www.powellsnorth.blogspot.com) this Thursday (8/16), readings b= y: Elizabeth Cross Meg Barboza David Driscoll Michael Robbins Jordan Stempleman Michelle Taransky In Los Angeles (www.betalevel.com) next Friday (8/24), readings by: Harold Abramowitz Allison Carter Susanne Hall Mathew Timmons In Buffalo (9/28), readings TBD. P-Queue, vol. 4 features work by: Harold Abramowitz =E2=80=A2 Jos=C3=A9 Alvergue =E2=80=A2 Meg Barboza =E2=80= =A2 Ben Bedard =E2=80=A2 Allison Carter =E2=80=A2 Jon Cotner =E2=80=A2 Eliz= abeth Cross =E2=80=A2 David Driscoll =E2=80=A2 Andy Fitch =E2=80=A2 Susanne= Hall =E2=80=A2 Anthony Hawley =E2=80=A2 Laura Jaramillo =E2=80=A2=20 Crane Giamo =E2=80=A2 Philip Metres =E2=80=A2 Michael Robbins =E2=80=A2 Sio= bhan Scarry =E2=80=A2 Jordan Stempleman =E2=80=A2 Michelle Taransky =E2=80= =A2 Richard Taransky =E2=80=A2 Mathew Timmons =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D P-Queue is a journal of poetry, poetics, and innovative prose, dedicated to= investigations of hybridity and cross-genre work. We=E2=80=99re supported= by the Poetics Program, the English Department, and=20 various other sources in the Humanities at SUNY Buffalo. We=E2=80=99ve had= a brief but exciting history of publishing innovative, unclassifiable work= s from a variety of authors both at Buffalo and across the=20 nation. Volume 5, first in the second four-year series of P-Queue, is sche= duled to feature a number of collaborative works continuing the journal=E2= =80=99s investigations of genre and convention. We can=20 be found on the web at www.pqueue.blogspot.com and through the EPC under = =E2=80=9C@Buffalo=E2=80=9D at =E2=80=9CCurrent Student Publications.=E2=80= =9D To order, visit our website or email: arippeon@buffalo.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 09:34:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: creative writing praxis/ T & W In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Teachers & Writers Collaborative publishes a wealth of books with a wealth of experience from poets and novelists in their programs. If you go to their website, they be a big list. Some of books are appropriate no matter the age level. Ron Padgett was the Publications editor and coordinator for a zillion years. Institutionally and pedagogically I don't think T&W has ever proposed, instituted, exercised, or imposed a book of Pedalogical Standards for its writer employees. The good stuff just keeps coming up from 'the bottom' to be shared and variously worked with (even variously rejected) by writer teachers in the field. Such is I think is best! Stephen V Walking Theory (84 pages/ $12, Junction Press) www.junctionpress.com > unfortunately, most of the exercise books and form books out there are > passing for text for teaching writing, rather than as books of... > forms and exercises... a lot of poetry books (individual volumes and > anthologies) are assigned in order to serve as examples for exercises > like this too > > AWP has an annual "Pedagogy Papers" publication and forum which (used > to at least) largely consist of writing exercises typed out on > departmental letterhead by junior faculty > > a bit of promo: > > see my TO DELITE AND INSTRUCT (blue lion books, 2006) for poetry made > against these, and with misunderstood perception exercises (among > other things) > >> I wonder if things like Bernadette Mayer's experiment or other lists >> of procedures could be considered as pedagogical theory for poets? >> Are books like Koch's Wishes Lies and Dreams, though aimed at >> children, be considered useful pedagogical theory for us (maybe too >> East Coast for your needs?). I guess this move may be a tired one, >> but it's still useful: I'm asking if this is an opportunity to >> broaden what we might consider a poetry pedagogy text. Does it >> overlap literature; can we include A Test of Poetry, How to Write, >> and so on? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 10:56:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: Oh MY!!! Re: AP American Lit--what's you take on this reading list? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline That's fantastic! I TOOK that course with Prof. Casamassima in Barii!!!!!!!! That's incredible. So you're his son..... I later wrote a book about Joyce, I really couldn't have done it without the prof. Now I teach Irish literature too (this semester "The Irish Avant-Garde, 1930-1950"; "The Non-Lyric Tradition," "Mime in Irish Theatre," "Irish Men Poets," "Flash Fiction as Gaeilge", and "Irish MInimalism," yes we teach a lot of courses). Your father was a gem, Christophe. None of us could understand how one small head could carry all he knew -- and he did it without books too! Mairead >>> christophecasamassima@GRAFFITI.NET 08/10/07 3:42 PM >>> George, are you saying that Ulysses is an "Irish" book? I beg to differ. Joyce was an American acting as an Irishman when the shit hit the Sin Fein. Joyce's real name (which no one but my family knows) was Bob Silverberg, a New Yorker who had a very influential steel business, and he wrote a book called "When Atlas Shrugged", but had to change all the names, dates and action to fit the Irish attitude he adopted when he became embroiled with the pre-IRA deal. This would be a great AP course - I learned these facts from my father, Carmine Casamassima, who taught AP American Literature in Bari, Italy. He was also from China. Christophe Casamassima > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "George Bowering" > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: AP American Lit--what's you take on this reading list? > Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 12:27:44 -0700 > > > This might come as a surprise, > but that's not a US book. > > > On Aug 9, 2007, at 11:40 AM, Christophe Casamassima wrote: > > > You forgot Ulysses. I read it in my mother's womb. > > > > > > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Charlie Rossiter" > >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >> Subject: AP American Lit--what's you take on this reading list? > >> Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 11:43:22 -0500 > >> > >> > >> Ok, my literarily-informed friends, my son, Jack, will be a high school > >> jr this year taking AP American Lit. Given that doing well enough in the > >> course and on the AP test is considered the equivalent of passing a > >> college course on the subject I suppose we could consider this a possible > >> reading list for an Intro Am. Lit class. The list is below: > >> > >> If you have the time and inclination, I'd love to read your responses. > >> > >> If you teach this course, I'd be curious to see your reading list. Jack > >> would too. > >> > >> We know what we think, but I don't want to bias your responses. > >> > >> Adventures of Huckleberry Finn > >> The Awakening > >> Catcher in the Rye > >> The Crucible > >> The Great Gatsby > >> In Our Time > >> Intrepreter of Maladies > >> Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglas > >> Passing > >> The Scarlet Letter > >> Their Eyes Were Watching > >> > >> Charlie > > > >> > > > > > > = > > One Jaco Luxury Condo Resort > > Affordable luxury at our 10-story condominium resort in the heart > > of Jaco, with convention center, huge pools and entertainment > > areas. Penthouses available, plus one/two bedrooms. > > http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick? > > redirectid=537125b2c603102f405ef75415d9cfaf > > > > > > -- Powered By Outblaze > > > > > George Harvey Bowering > More than meets the eye. > = Self Publish Your Book in 30 Days Custom publishing plans, sales & marketing support. Free Author Guide. http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick?redirectid=7815482a704b2308f5c11476f575138b -- Powered By Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 12:04:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: FW: This weekend: Redletter, Ginsberg's Spiritual Poetics, Cultural Society at Woodland Pattern MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 09:03:31 -0700> From: woodlandpattern@sbcglobal.ne= t> Subject: This weekend: Redletter, Ginsberg's Spiritual Poetics, Cultural= Society at WP> To: woodlandpattern@sbcglobal.net> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> REDLETTER THIS FRIDAY: MICHAELA KAHN & C= HRISTIEN GHOLSON> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> >= Woodland Pattern Book Center presents:> > Redletter series with Michaela K= ahn & Christien Gholson> > Friday, August 17, 2007, 7pm> Woodland Pattern B= ook Center> 720 East Locust Street, Milwaukee> > Admission $3, or $2 for Op= en Mic readers> > Fri. 8/17: Redletter: Michaela Kahn & Christien Gholson; = 7pm> > Michaela Kahn is currently an artist in residence at The Wormfarm> I= nstitute in Reedsburg, WI. (Wormfarm is a working farm and> non-profit that= seeks to nurture the interstices between culture and> agriculture). She ha= s a background in sustainable communities and> English lit and received her= MFA from the Jack Kerouac School of> Disembodied Poetics at Naropa Univers= ity. > > http://www.woodlandpattern.org/poems/michaela_kahn01.shtml> > Chri= stien Gholson is currently one of the artists-in-residence at> The Wormfarm= Institute. He is author of On the Side of the Crow, a> book of linked pros= e-poems, published by Hanging Loose Press. He> was one of the leaders of t= he effort to unionize Borders Books &> Music in the mid-nineties, editing t= he national bookseller union> organizing magazine 8-Ball. He lives in Santa= Fe, New Mexico.> > http://www.woodlandpattern.org/poems/christien_gholson0= 1.shtml> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> SATURDA= Y: ALLEN GINSBERG'S SPIRITUAL POETICS WITH TONY TRIGILIO> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> > Workshop: Allen Ginsberg's Spiri= tual Poetics with Tony Trigilio> > Saturday, August 18, 2007, 1-4pm> Woodla= nd Pattern Book Center> 720 East Locust Street, Milwaukee> > $35 / $30 memb= ers> > Call 414-263-5001 to register.> > Sat. 8/18: Allen Ginsberg=92s Spir= itual Poetics; 1pm-4pm> > Using meditation exercises, lecture, and group di= scussion, we will> explore what Allen Ginsberg meant when he described spir= itual poems> as "probes of consciousness." Why did he feel spiritual poetry= could> be a model for "experiments with recollection or mindfulness,> expe= riments with language and speech, experiments with forms"? In> addition, pl= ease bring your favorite Ginsberg poem to discuss and> share.> > Tony Trigi= lio is the author of the poetry collection, The Lama's> English Lessons (Th= ree Candles Press, 2007) and the recently> published book of criticism, All= en Ginsberg's Buddhist Poetics> (Southern Illinois University Press). He te= aches at Columbia College> Chicago, where he also serves as Director of Cre= ative Writing=97Poetry> and co-edits the poetry magazine Court Green.> > ht= tp://www.woodlandpattern.org/workshops/adults.shtml#ginsberg> > =3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> SMALL PRESS FOCUS THIS SUNDA= Y: CULTURAL SOCIETY> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > > Small Press Focus: Cultural Society with Zach Barocas> > Sunday, August= 19, 2007, 11:00 a.m.> Woodland Pattern Book Center> 720 East Locust Street= , Milwaukee> > Sun. 8/19: Small Press Focus: Cultural Society w. Zach Baroc= as; 11am> > FREE> > Cultural Society publisher Zach Barocas will lead a dis= cussion on> the role of the small press, the pleasures and necessity of cre= ating> community, and the hows and whys of starting a press. Cultural> Soc= iety publications include Pam Rehm's Saving Bonds, Joel> Bettridge's That A= brupt Here, and Zach Barocas' Among Other Things> in addition to lovingly p= roduced broadsides by Michael Heller,> Philip Jenks, Devin Johnston, Paul M= uldoon, Les Murray, Peter> O'Leary, and John Tipton.> > http://www.woodland= pattern.org/smallpress/cultural_society.shtml> http://www.culturalsociety.o= rg/> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> CULTURAL S= OCIETY READING THIS SUNDAY> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D> > CultSoc. Reading: Zach Barocas, Joel Bettridge, and Peter O'Le= ary> > Sunday, August 19, 2007, 2:00 p.m.> Woodland Pattern Book Center> 72= 0 East Locust Street, Milwaukee> > Sun. 8/19: Zach Barocas, Joel Bettridge,= and Peter O'Leary; 2pm> > $8 / $7 / $6> > Peter O'Leary is the author of D= epth Theology (2006/Poetry); A> Mystical Theology of the Limbic Fissure (20= 05/Poetry); Gnostic> Contagion: Robert Duncan & the Poetry of Illness (2002= /Literary> Criticism); and Watchfulness (2001/Poetry). He is Executor for t= he> Literary Estate of Ronald Johnson.> > http://www.woodlandpattern.org/po= ems/peter_oleary02.shtml> > Joel Bettridge is author of That Abrupt Here (C= ultural Society,> 2007). Joel is currently editing a collection of essays o= n Ronald> Johnson for the National Poetry Foundation's Life and Work series= .> He lives in Portland.> > http://www.woodlandpattern.org/poems/joel_bettr= idge01.shtml> > Musician & poet Zach Barocas is the author of Among Other T= hings and> edits Cultural Society. He lives in Minneapolis with his wife,> = Kimberley Yurkiewicz.> > http://www.woodlandpattern.org/poems/zach_barocas0= 1.shtml> http://www.culturalsociety.org/> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> UPCOMING EVENTS> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> > Fri. 8/17: Redletter: Christien Gholson & Micha= ela Kahn; 7pm> > Sat. 8/18: Tony Trigilio Workshop: Allen Ginsberg's Buddhi= st Poetics> > Sun. 8/19: Small Press Focus: Cultural Society w. Zach Baroca= s; 11am> > Sun. 8/19: Zach Barocas, Joel Bettridge, and Peter O'Leary; 2pm>= > Sun. 9/16: Small Press Focus: Ahsahta Press w. Janet Holmes; 11am> > Sun= . 9/16: Janet Holmes, Kate Greenstreet, and Lisa Fishman; 2pm> > Thu. 9/27:= Hettie Jones on the Beats at MPL; 7pm> > Fri. 9/28: Hettie Jones reads fro= m Doing Seventy; 7pm> > Sat. 9/29: Experimental Film & Video Series; 7pm> >= Sun. 9/30: Alternating Currents Live; 7pm> > http://www.woodlandpattern.or= g/> > ____________________________________________________________________>= To receive regular messages notifying you of Woodland Pattern> events, sen= d a message to us at woodlandpattern@sbcglobal.net with> "Join E-List" in t= he subject line.> > To unsubscribe from these mailings send a reply with "u= nsubscribe"> in the subject line.> > PLEASE FORWARD! THANKS!!!> > http://w= ww.woodlandpattern.org/> > Woodland Pattern Book Center> 720 E. Locust Stre= et> Milwaukee, WI 53212> phone 414.263.5001 _________________________________________________________________ Recharge--play some free games. Win cool prizes too! http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=3DCLUB_wlmailtextlink= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 10:19:09 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Salerno Subject: Looking For Jill Stengel In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Colleagues: If anyone has contact information for Jill, I'd be grateful. Thanks. Mark Salerno http://www.saltpublishing.com/books/smp/9781844713295.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 18:18:48 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Ellis Subject: Oasis Press Broadsides resuming In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed _____________________________________ ANNOUNCEMENT Oasis Press Broadside Series, edited by Stephen Ellis, is once more open for submissions. Prose (ie., journal entries, trip reports, "prose poems" - not stories) okay; poems preferred. No guidelines beyond page number, which must total three, seven, or eleven pages, or a close proximity (setting the text can permit of some adjustment). Email or write to below addresses for sample copy. Those previously published include Daniel Zimmerman, Richard Blevins, Duncan McNaughton, Joe Napora, Kenneth Warren, Halliday Dresser, Ray DiPalma, Theodore Enslin, Peter Ganick, Kenneth Irby, Gavin Selerie, Skip Fox, Ange Mlinko, Jeff Gburek, Patrick Doud, Susan Gevirtz, Mark DuCharme, Edward Foster, Dale Smith, Thomas Meyer, Michael Basinski, Allen Fisher, Jordan Davis, Micah Ballard, Kristin Prevallet, Jennifer Moxley, Anselm Berrigan, Drew Gardner, Peteris Cedrins, John Clarke, Joel Lewis, Michael Boughn, Joe Safdie, Tom Beckett, Tod Thilleman, Gabriel Gudding, Henry Gould, Susan M. Schultz, William Sylvester, Nada Gordon, Gary Sullivan, Mitch Highfill, Kimberley Lyons, Ivan Arguelles, Lee Ann Brown, Elizabeth Willis, Peter Gizzi, Rod Smith, K. Silem Mohammad, Hank Lazer, Edmund Berrigan, Alice Notley, Daniel Bouchard, Charles Potts, Alissa Quart, Jack Kimball, Karen Weiser, Kent Johnson/Jacques Debrot, Jim Behrle, and Philip Jenks. The Oasis Press Broadside Project - usually single 11 x 17 folded sheets printed all sides - was begun as a continuation of and adjunct to the monthly magazine :that:, co-edited by Stephens Dignazio and Ellis in the early 90s. Oasis Broadsides 1 - 34, plus fascicles 1, 2 and 4 (fascicles are extended broadsides of usually more than 20 pages; publication of this length may be available at a future date) were edited out of Tel Aviv, Israel, 1994 - 1996; issues 35 - 39, 42 - 45, 47, and fascicles 3 and 5 - 12 were produced in Amman Jordan 1996 - 1998. Subsequent issues were edited out of Portland, Maine (41, 46 - 87, and fascicles 12 & 14), published in transit by the Oasis Press Mobile Unit (92b) or in various locations in southeastern Ohio (93 - 104). Editorial advisement and funding is "through you the listener", and via the Mercy Seat Collective, a non-federated union of loose persons of typically carbon manufacture, who are aware of everything but their membership. Some - but not all - broadsides still available. Backlist with prices can be had through the Press c/o Stephen Ellis 71 Elmwood Ave., apt. 15 Burlington, VT 05401 stepellis@hotmail.com ______________________________________________-- _________________________________________________________________ Learn.Laugh.Share. Reallivemoms is right place! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 17:21:08 -0500 Reply-To: dgodston@sbcglobal.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Godston Subject: creative writing praxis/ T & W In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I agree with Stephen, Teachers & Writers Collaborative (www.twc.org) publishes an amazing range of texts for classroom use. Here are some of my favorites that I have used while working with young people on poetry writing projects: "Third Mind: Creative Writing Through Visual Art," edited by Tonya Foster & Kristin Prevallet "Sing the Sun Up: Creative Writing Ideas from African American Literature," edited by Lorenzo Thomas "The Art of Science Writing," by Dale Worsley & Bernadette Mayer "How To Make Poetry Comics," by Dave Morice "Dr. Alphabet," by Dave Morice "The Teachers & Writers Guide to William Carlos Williams" "Old Faithful: 18 Writers Present Their Favorite Writing Assignments," edited by Christopher Edgar and Ron Padgett "The Alphabet of the Trees: A Guide to Nature Writing," edited by Christian McEwen & Mark Statman "The Grammar of Fantasy: An Introduction to the Art of Inventing Stories," by Gianni Rodari "Poetry Everywhere: Teaching Poetry Writing in School and in the Community," by Jack Collom and Sheryl Noethe "Tolstoy as Teacher," edited by Bob Blaisdell "Secret Writing: Keys to the Mysteries of Reading and Writing," by Peter Sears -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Stephen Vincent Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 11:35 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: creative writing praxis/ T & W Teachers & Writers Collaborative publishes a wealth of books with a wealth of experience from poets and novelists in their programs. If you go to their website, they be a big list. Some of books are appropriate no matter the age level. Ron Padgett was the Publications editor and coordinator for a zillion years. Institutionally and pedagogically I don't think T&W has ever proposed, instituted, exercised, or imposed a book of Pedalogical Standards for its writer employees. The good stuff just keeps coming up from 'the bottom' to be shared and variously worked with (even variously rejected) by writer teachers in the field. Such is I think is best! Stephen V Walking Theory (84 pages/ $12, Junction Press) www.junctionpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 14:42:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Re: Oasis Press Broadsides resuming Comments: To: "UB Poetics discussion group "@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Congratulations Stephen. So I guess I should be hearing from you any day about yr "d.a. levy lives: celebrating the renegade press" series event from May of 2004. Best, David On 8/15/07 2:18 PM, "Stephen Ellis" wrote: > _____________________________________ > > ANNOUNCEMENT > > Oasis Press Broadside Series, edited by Stephen Ellis, is once more open for > submissions. Prose (ie., journal entries, trip reports, "prose poems" - not > stories) okay; poems preferred. No guidelines beyond page number, which > must total three, seven, or eleven pages, or a close proximity (setting the > text can permit of some adjustment). Email or write to below addresses for > sample copy. > > Those previously published include Daniel Zimmerman, Richard Blevins, Duncan > McNaughton, Joe Napora, Kenneth Warren, Halliday Dresser, Ray DiPalma, > Theodore Enslin, Peter Ganick, Kenneth Irby, Gavin Selerie, Skip Fox, Ange > Mlinko, Jeff Gburek, Patrick Doud, Susan Gevirtz, > Mark DuCharme, Edward Foster, Dale Smith, Thomas Meyer, Michael Basinski, > Allen Fisher, Jordan Davis, Micah Ballard, Kristin Prevallet, Jennifer > Moxley, Anselm Berrigan, Drew Gardner, Peteris Cedrins, John Clarke, Joel > Lewis, Michael Boughn, Joe Safdie, Tom Beckett, Tod Thilleman, Gabriel > Gudding, Henry Gould, Susan M. Schultz, William Sylvester, Nada Gordon, Gary > Sullivan, Mitch Highfill, Kimberley Lyons, Ivan Arguelles, Lee Ann Brown, > Elizabeth Willis, Peter Gizzi, Rod Smith, K. Silem Mohammad, Hank Lazer, > Edmund Berrigan, Alice Notley, Daniel Bouchard, Charles Potts, Alissa Quart, > Jack Kimball, Karen Weiser, Kent Johnson/Jacques Debrot, Jim Behrle, and > Philip Jenks. > > The Oasis Press Broadside Project - usually single 11 x 17 folded sheets > printed all sides - was begun as a continuation of and adjunct to the > monthly magazine :that:, co-edited by Stephens Dignazio and Ellis in the > early 90s. Oasis Broadsides 1 - 34, plus fascicles 1, 2 and 4 (fascicles > are extended broadsides of usually more than 20 pages; publication of this > length may be available at a future date) were edited out of Tel Aviv, > Israel, 1994 - 1996; issues 35 - 39, 42 - 45, 47, and fascicles 3 and 5 - 12 > were produced in Amman Jordan 1996 - 1998. Subsequent issues were edited > out of Portland, Maine (41, 46 - 87, and fascicles 12 & 14), published in > transit by the Oasis Press Mobile Unit (92b) or in various locations in > southeastern Ohio (93 - 104). Editorial advisement and funding is "through > you the listener", and via the Mercy Seat Collective, a non-federated union > of loose persons of typically carbon manufacture, who are aware of > everything but their membership. > > Some - but not all - broadsides still available. Backlist with prices can > be had through the Press > > c/o Stephen Ellis > 71 Elmwood Ave., apt. 15 > Burlington, VT 05401 > stepellis@hotmail.com > > ______________________________________________-- > > _________________________________________________________________ > Learn.Laugh.Share. Reallivemoms is right place! > http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://welcometoboogcity.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 18:28:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: "Starsdown: debut book from Jasper Bernes" [on behalf of Joshua Clover] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Jasper Bernes' first book of poems, Starsdown, is now available from SPD (link below). It is a beautiful book, well-made, 96 pages (perfect bound, 4-color and offset printed). It is the first publication of the mysterious press in girum imus nocte et consumimur igni. "Jasper Bernes' magnificent and multi-layered first book, Starsdown, emerges as a record of Los Angeles as its physical space collapses into specters and marks, where "the sky is a swimming pool" and the signs and stars keep switching places. Beneath the glittering surface of the last American city, this book animates the profusion of irreconcilable vernaculars and histories that the city's "pastel- washed meta-burglaries" have contrived to make disappear. An archaeology of futures past and futures to come, Starsdown improvises a poetry which stands finally as actual invention and possibility." http://spdbooks.org/Details.asp?BookID=9781934639023 ----- thank you very much, Joshua Clover ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 17:58:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dodie Bellamy Subject: Back Room Anthology new from Clear Cut Press Comments: To: ampersand@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" The Back Room: an anthology, edited by Matthew Stadler is out from Clear Cut Press. Celebrating two years of adventurous programming, Portland's back room talk series has now published a 500-page anthology of essays and art from past back room guests. The anthology collects original work, commissioned by the back room, from Randy Gragg, Wayne Koestenbaum, Lisa Robertson, John O'Brian, Stephanie Snyder, Barbara Verchot, Larry Rinder, Kevin Killian, Dodie Bellamy, Gore Vidal, Mary Gaitskill, and many others. Available online at: http://www.thebackroompdx.com/thebackroom_publications.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 19:19:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William James Austin Subject: Re: This weekend: Redletter, Ginsberg's Spiritual Poetics, Cultural Society at Woodland Pattern In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello, David!? Just checked you out on You Tube.? Very cool, my friend.? Best, Bill ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 04:18:17 +0000 Reply-To: editor@fulcrumpoetry.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fulcrum Annual Subject: Poets Cliff Forshaw & Katia Kapovich: Harvard Square Reading Wed Aug 22 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Poets Cliff Forshaw (Hull, England) and Katia Kapovich (Cambridge, MA) wi= ll read from their current work. Wednesday, August 22, 2007, 7:00pm Pierre Menard Gallery (Harvard Square) 10 Arrow Street (up Arrow Street from Cafe Pamplona) Cambridge, MA Free and open to the public, with reception and signing. Info 617.868.2033, pierre@pierremenardgallery.com Cliff Forshaw lives in Hull, England, where he teaches at the university.= He has been a Hawthornden Writing Fellow, winner of the Welsh Academy Jo= hn Tripp Award, and Hydro-Tasmania International Writer-in-Residence at H= obart. His latest collection, Trans (The Collective Press, Wales, 2005) i= ncludes an updating of Ovid's Metamorphoses. He is working on a new book = set in Tasmania and recently co-edited (with David Kennedy) Fulcrum's for= thcoming supplement on Poetry and Myth. Katia Kapovich hails from Soviet Moldova. Her membership in a samizdat di= ssident group precluded publication of her writing in the USSR. She worke= d on archeological digs, gauged petroleum tanks, smuggled sheepskins, the= n emigrated, settling in the US in 1992. The author of six Russian collec= tions and one previous volume of English verse, Gogol in Rome (Salt, 2004= ), she lives in Boston and co-edits FULCRUM: an annual of poetry and aest= hetics. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 04:23:39 +0000 Reply-To: editor@fulcrumpoetry.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fulcrum Annual Subject: Poet Philip Nikolayev's Library-of-Congress Interview Now Free Online MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Philip Nikolayev's recent interview on "The Poet and the Poem Show" out of the Library of Congress, which ran on Public Radio, is now listenable online: http://www.loc.gov/poetry/poetpoem2.html Nikolayev appears at the top of the list. For more information about him visit http://www.myspace.com/nikolayev -- and see your visit marked on a world map! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 02:24:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: VERSE vol. 24, n=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=B0?= 1-3 : French Poetr y & Poetics In-Reply-To: <91837.19246.qm@web51804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable yes, thank you, diane--cover awful but don't judge a book...tell us about the more, if you will. On 8/14/07 9:26 AM, "Mary Kasimor" wrote: > Yes, Diane, I was referring to the 1978 edition. I just picked it up and = was > re-amazed by the poems in there. I don't think that many women were writi= ng > like that then--with the breath/breadth of your writing. The writing is b= oth > so wild and so tender. It is a wonderful book. > MaryDiane DiPrima wrote: > Thank you, Ruth and Barry and Mary. I have always believed the work fin= ds > its own way--anyone's work. >=20 > Mary, you might want to know that the Loba now out with Penguin (horrible > cover, by the way) is twice the length of the Wingbow Press edition ou ar= e > probably referring to (1978). It's Loba Books I & II. There's been more > written since, but that's another story. >=20 > Diane >=20 >=20 >> From: Mary Kasimor >> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >=20 >> Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 17:16:10 -0700 >> To:=20 >=20 >> Subject: Re: VERSE vol. 24, n=B0 1-3 : French Poetr y & Poetics >>=20 >> Yes, I have the book, Loba, that I've had for almost 30 years. It cost $= 5 >> when >> I bought it. I've kept it through all my moves--and those have been many= . >> Mary >>=20 >> Barry Schwabsky wrote: >> Hear, hear. >>=20 >> Ruth Lepson wrote: Diane di Prma, >>=20 >> It's great to read yr posts since I have always thought you are a vastly >> underappreciated poet--of course many do love your poetry but still... >>=20 >> Good to have you with us, >>=20 >> Ruth L. >>=20 >>=20 >> On 8/13/07 2:22 PM, "Diane DiPrima" >> wrote: >>=20 >>> Mark, >>>=20 >>> Thank you for asking that important question. For me, whether or not a = book >>> of translation is bilingual is a primary concern. Whether or not I know= the >>> language. Didn't that information used to be included more frequently t= han >>> it is now? It's even left out of most reviews. One wants to know. >>>=20 >>> Diane di Prima >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> From: Andrew Zawacki >>>> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >>=20 >>>> Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 13:39:50 -0400 >>>> To:=20 >>=20 >>>> Subject: Re: VERSE vol. 24, n=C2=B0 1-3 : French Poetry & Poetics >>>>=20 >>>> Mark, >>>>=20 >>>> The French originals are not included, unfortunately; already at 350+ >>>> pages, >>>> the=20 >>>> issue would have become prohibitively expensive to print and distribut= e. >>>>=20 >>>> Andrew >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> ---- Original message ---- >>>>> Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 11:12:47 -0400 >>>>> From: Mark Weiss >>>>> Subject: Re: VERSE vol. 24, n=C2=B0 1-3 : French Poetry & Poetics >>>>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>>>>=20 >>>>> Andrew: Can I assume that the French originals of the poems are inclu= ded? >>>>>=20 >>>>> Mark >>>>>=20 >>>>> At 10:24 AM 8/13/2007, you wrote: >>>>>> VERSE announces the release of volume 24, numbers 1-3: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> FRENCH POETRY & POETICS >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> coedited by Abigail Lang & Andrew Zawacki. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> TEXTS by Pierre Alferi, Marie Borel, Oscarine >>>>>> Bosquet, Olivier Cadiot, Suzanne >>>>>> Doppelt, Caroline Dubois, Fr=C3=83=C2=A9d=C3=83=C2=A9ric Forte, Dominique Fourcade, = Jean >>>> Fr=C3=83=C2=A9mon, >>>>>> Michelle Grangaud, Emmanuel Hocquard, Philippe Jaccottet, Ian Monk, = Anne >>>>>> Parian, Anne Portugal, Jacqueline Risset, Jacques Roubaud, Claude Ro= yet- >>>>>> Journoud, S=C3=83=C2=A9bastien Smirou, Christophe Tarkos, & B=C3=83=C2=A9n=C3=83=C2=A9dicte >>>>>> Vilgrain. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> INTERVIEWS with Dominique Fourcade & Claude Royet-Journoud. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> ESSAYS by Craig Dworkin, Kevin Hart, & Jean-Jacques Poucel. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> TRANSLATORS for the issue are Guy Bennett, >>>>>> Judith Bishop, Beverley Bie Brahic, >>>>>> Peter Consenstein, Jennifer Dick, Steve Evans, Micaela Kramer, Anna >>>>>> Moschovakis, Jennifer Moxley, Sarah Riggs, Eleni >>>>>> Sikelianos, Cole Swensen, Keith >>>>>> Waldrop, Rosmarie Waldrop, Chet Wiener, & Andrew Zawacki. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> BOOK REVIEWS: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Timothy Donnelly on St=C3=83=C2=A9phane Mallarm=C3=83=C2=A9; Tom Thompson on Charles >>>> Baudelaire; >>>>>> Michael Heller on Edmond Jab=C3=83=C2=A8s; Ted Pearson on John Grosjean; Nat= halie >>>>>> Stephens on B=C3=83=C2=A9atrice Mousli; Rusty Morrison on Claude Royet-Journ= oud; >>>>>> Beverley Bie Brahic on Jacques Roubaud; Eduardo Cadava on Suzanne >>>> Doppelt; >>>>>> Antoine Caz=C3=83=C2=A9 on Val=C3=83=C2=A8re Novarina; Eleni Sikelianos on Olivier >>>>>> Cadiot; >>>> Dawn- >>>>>> Michelle Baude on Esther Tellermann; Peter Ramos on Anne-Marie Albia= ch; >>>>>> Judith Bishop on G=C3=83=C2=A9rard Mac=C3=83=C2=A9; Laird Hunt on Serge Fauchereau; = Chris >>>>>> McDermott on Jean Fr=C3=83=C2=A9mon; Kevin Craft on Claire Malroux; Andrea >>>>>> Stevens >>>> on >>>>>> Emmanuel Moses; Paul Kane on Yves Bonnefoy; Chad Davidson on Jacques >>>> R=C3=83=C2=A9da; >>>>>> Michael Fagenblat on Michel Deguy; Jacques Khalip on Jean-Michel >>>>>> Maulpoix; >>>>>> Kristen Prevallet on Val=C3=83=C2=A9rie-Catherine Richez, >>>>>> Marie Borel, & Isabelle Garron; >>>>>> Nicholas Manning on Marie Borel; & Marcella Durand on Pascalle Monni= er & >>>>>> Jean-Michel Espitallier. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> The triple issue will be launched in Paris in >>>>>> late October. To order, please send >>>>>> a check, payable to "Verse," to Andrew Zawacki; Department of Englis= h; >>>>>> University of Georgia; Athens, GA 30602. Price per copy: $15 / 10=E2=82=AC= / >>>>>> =C3=82=C2=A38. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Andrew Zawacki >>>>>> DDepartment of English/ VERSE >>>>>> University of Georgia >>>>>> Athens, Georgia 30602 >>>>>> (706) 542-3434 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Andrew Zawacki >>>> Department of English/ VERSE >>>> University of Georgia >>>> Athens, Georgia 30602 >>>> (706) 542-3434 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> --------------------------------- >> Got a little couch potato? >> Check out fun summer activities for kids. >=20 >=20 > =20 > --------------------------------- > Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. > Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 09:20:27 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ian davidson Subject: Harsh on You Tube Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hello Everybody I've put three short videos of poems from my sequence Harsh up on You Tube. The sound comes from work by Steven Lowe who worked on my readings of the poems, and is the best bit I think. Still working on the mixed quality of the visuals. Having to save in unusual formats to get them down to you tube size. Anyway, best way to find them seems to be to type 'ian davidson harsh' in the you tube search box. three videos will come up. It's been a wet summer in Wales. Ian _________________________________________________________________ The next generation of Hotmail is here! http://www.newhotmail.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 09:25:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: CA Conrad Subject: Dear Buffalo List, a message from Rosemary Ceravolo on her husband Jospeh Ceravolo's "Fits of Dawn" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I promised that I would make this as public as possible. That PDF file of the Ceravolo chapbook "Fits of Dawn" as it turns out was made by someone who did not have permission from Rosemary Ceravolo, who is the literary executor to her late husband's work. She wrote me an angry e-mail after finding out about this PDF. She was convinced it was Joe Massey who had made the file, but I assured her it was not, and that neither of us have any idea who made it. And this is true, and my hope is that the person who DID make it finds out through this post somehow and has the sense to take it off their server before she finds them. The sooner the better, trust me on this one, she's not happy, and she's not messing around! But she has, as you can imagine, asked us to no longer forward the PDF file to those requesting it. And since I've still been getting about half a dozen new requests each week since the initial FLOOD of requests, I've decided to agree to make the message from her public. I'm very sad about this news. She wants us to refer to the website: http://josephceravolo.com/ No disrespect to those who made this site, but it's awful. But not as awful as living in a world of bookshelves empty of Ceravolo's poems. It makes no sense. So many of us Love his poems. So very many of us. What is all this protection about I wonder? I'm sad about this because the experience of the PDF file with the help of Joe Massey has made it clear that there are HUNDREDS of us hungry poets! It's been great being in touch with so many of you over the "Fits of Dawn" PDF that none of us knew was, well, illegal. But I encourage EVERYONE to march your asses over to your local library and ask the interlibrary loan department to order his books. You cannot, must not, ever be deprived of this amazing poetry! LET'S HAVE THE CERAVOLO REVOLUTION ANYWAY! Hey, is anyone interested in helping me getting about a hundred of us together to sit on Rosemary Ceravolo's lawn and read his poems through a bullhorn until she agrees to put out a collected? Suppose she doesn't have a lawn? We'll figure it out, don't worry. Life's too fucking short to worry. But not so short we can't imagine doing whatever we need to do to change things. With an exhilaration of Love for the poems that never feels depleted, CAConrad http://PhillySound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 01:31:58 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: elizabeth murray praise day MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Nuyopoman@aol.com To: Nuyopoman@aol.com Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 00:06:08 EDT Subject: Elizabeth Murray Praise Day Sat Aug 24, 4-7, Message-ID: Dear Friends, I am overwhelmed with the wonderfully supportive outpouring from all friends of Elizabeth’s and mine. Thank you. Please forgive my lack of individual responses at this time. I want you to know a couple things: 1, she died peacefully at our place in the country, which she adored, on Sunday of rest, August 12 at 12 noon. Dakota, Sophie, Daisy and I were all there. Dakota’s wife Lisanne, too, and Maureen our amazing health care worker, and Rima, our dear friend. The grandkids were upstairs watching a video, fine. Birds in breeze. Elizabeth just breathed gently into the day. 2, there will be a Praise Day at Bowery Poetry Club next Saturday, August 25 , will remember and yak and lie and kiss and dance, the usual. Please invite all friends. 3, the formal ceremony will be at MOMA in Nov. Stay tuned, and Love, Bob Bob Holman Proprietor, Bowery Poetry Club Visiting Professor of Writing, Columbia University 308 Bowery NY NY 10012 212-334-6414 rh519@columbia.edu www.bobholman.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 01:29:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: for elizabeth murray MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Fw: Re: the sign for elizabeth murray on her > passing > > > Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 01:06:28 -0400 > > > > > > the sign - for elizabeth murray > > > > > > > > > beautiful nite > > > with the breeze at about maximum > > > just before becoming a wind > > > if it were winter > > > it'd be freezing > > > > > > i lift my arms to catch the sunset > > > schooner crosses its path circles > > > crosses again > > > stops momentarily > > > basks/fixed > > > i change glasses to see if i can make out > > > the people on board > > > lots of 'em > > > once sunday became monday > > > i felt that your pain might be stopped > > > quickly by some- > > > thing stronger than morphine > > > > > > sun's almost down > > > breeze rustles my shirt sleeves > > > becomes wind for an instant > > > if this were winter...... > > > > > > sign becomes symbol becomes sign > > > ice cream prayer & departed > > > ( shared experience: uprooted tree ) > > > wished i knew more than a dinner & a ride > > > new puppy > > > yes, > > > this definitely has to be considered a wind > > > right now > > > already since last week the sun's been leaving us > > > 1/2 hr. earlier > > > drinking more water than usual / lapping sounds > > > you've shed your skin ink > > > hands the color of forms funny story books > > > at last the warm dust has settled on the sparks of your > > foundation > > > damn bldings i'll never really get to see the entire > sun > > as > > > it > > > settles > > > down > > > the wind's become a breeze again > > > distinction of usage of symbol language > bubbles > > > > > > body stretching out on railng yawning - > > > barbed with great suffering i whisper > "don't > > > jump" > > > > > > in my search for words i borrow from the book > > > i'm leaning on > > > a poet's trick so i've been told > > > signbecomesymbolbecomesign again UFO! > > > crossing the bottom of the bottom > > > beautiful charms / aching heads / meaningful jokes > > > painted weather born from maps > > > don't jump the concrete floorboards > > > thump > > > is there an echo out there? > > > > > > the sign on the pier says NO CASTING - > > > as symbol this can mean no actors wanted here > > > the sun for instance > > > now at the bottom of the river > > > gone to another place where it belongs > > > the edges of the cloud crinkling up > > > like the embered > edges of a burning sheet > > > of paper. > > > > > > steve dalachinsky hudson sunset 8/13/07 > > > > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 08:39:33 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Re: Dear Buffalo List, a message from Rosemary Ceravolo on her husband Jospeh Ceravolo's "Fits of Dawn" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The fly in the ointment: How do you know that his widow isn't doing as Joe Ceravolo wished? I'm thinking of the latest case with Elizabeth Bishop's "Edgar Allan Poe & the Juke-Box". If a poet doesn't want his or her "posthumous" work published, must he or she burn everything? Is it okay to entrust original drafts et al to a friend or widow with specific instructions and hope for the best? I just took a cursory look at the website; she seems to be making plans to show some of the unpublished work (as well as create a better site), so maybe camping on her lawn is not so urgent? Did she mention a projected date to you for these happenings? "Exciting new plans are in progress for the new official home on the Web of Joseph Ceravolo's Poetry. Audio recordings of his readings and never before published poems will be made available to the public in the near future. Check back often as the Web site will be experiencing a complete redesign very soon." Best, Amy http://www.amyking.org/blog Thu, 16 Aug 2007 09:25:07 -0500 UB Poetics discussion group From: CA Conrad Subject: Dear Buffalo List,a message from Rosemary Ceravolo on her husband Jospeh Ceravolo's "Fits of Dawn" I promised that I would make this as public as possible. That PDF file of the Ceravolo chapbook "Fits of Dawn" as it turns out was made by someone who did not have permission from Rosemary Ceravolo, who is the literary executor to her late husband's work. She wrote me an angry e-mail after finding out about this PDF. She was convinced it was Joe Massey who had made the file, but I assured her it was not, and that neither of us have any idea who made it. And this is true, and my hope is that the person who DID make it finds out through this post somehow and has the sense to take it off their server before she finds them. The sooner the better, trust me on this one, she's not happy, and she's not messing around! But she has, as you can imagine, asked us to no longer forward the PDF file to those requesting it. And since I've still been getting about half a dozen new requests each week since the initial FLOOD of requests, I've decided to agree to make the message from her public. I'm very sad about this news. She wants us to refer to the website: http://josephceravolo.com/ No disrespect to those who made this site, but it's awful. But not as awful as living in a world of bookshelves empty of Ceravolo's poems. It makes no sense. So many of us Love his poems. So very many of us. What is all this protection about I wonder? I'm sad about this because the experience of the PDF file with the help of Joe Massey has made it clear that there are HUNDREDS of us hungry poets! It's been great being in touch with so many of you over the "Fits of Dawn" PDF that none of us knew was, well, illegal. But I encourage EVERYONE to march your asses over to your local library and ask the interlibrary loan department to order his books. You cannot, must not, ever be deprived of this amazing poetry! LET'S HAVE THE CERAVOLO REVOLUTION ANYWAY! Hey, is anyone interested in helping me getting about a hundred of us together to sit on Rosemary Ceravolo's lawn and read his poems through a bullhorn until she agrees to put out a collected? Suppose she doesn't have a lawn? We'll figure it out, don't worry. Life's too fucking short to worry. But not so short we can't imagine doing whatever we need to do to change things. With an exhilaration of Love for the poems that never feels depleted, CAConrad http://PhillySound.blogspot.com --------------------------------- Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 11:00:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: creative writing praxis In-Reply-To: <128BB661-521E-4EE3-8B43-255489E3ADB5@gmail.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Mayer's aren;t exers. in the usual sense but ways to shake people out of slumber & therefore terrific. Things like Write when you don;t feel like it, Write before falling asleep, Write at the same time every day. On 8/15/07 9:26 AM, "J.P. Craig" wrote: > I don't know if this fits, but there's the Palgrave Poetry and > Pedagogy that came out recently. I've found it interesting. I'm going > to be presenting with some friends from Iowa at the Midwest Writing > Center Association conference this fall on using writing center > techniques to teach creative writing. Specifically, we're trying to > find and discuss alternative to the "workshop" model that we found > lacking because, in my case, it was far too limiting on students' > output, too product-oriented and normative. > > I'd really be interested in the lists you've generated so far, both > of the helpful and unhelpful materials. > > Are these MA comps exams? Or is it some sort of certification exam > aborning (as if an MA comps exam isn't, I suppose). > > I'm really interested in this primarily because I like teaching > writing, and though I tend to be paid for teaching comp or ESL, I > like encouraging and assisting young creative writers too. I'm also > interested because my M.F.A. experience was unhelpful to my writing. > I found the PhD in literature to be much more helpful to my writing, > but then again I'm a sort of bookish person and not particularly > successful as a professional poet. > > I wonder if things like Bernadette Mayer's experiment or other lists > of procedures could be considered as pedagogical theory for poets? > Are books like Koch's Wishes Lies and Dreams, though aimed at > children, be considered useful pedagogical theory for us (maybe too > East Coast for your needs?). I guess this move may be a tired one, > but it's still useful: I'm asking if this is an opportunity to > broaden what we might consider a poetry pedagogy text. Does it > overlap literature; can we include A Test of Poetry, How to Write, > and so on? > > On Aug 14, 2007, at 12:27 AM, Susan Webster Schultz wrote: > >> Increasingly, MA students at UH are asking to take exams in >> Creative Writing Pedagogy, and increasingly >> I'm being asked to be an examiner in this field. As to what that >> field might be, I'll perhaps know better after >> conducting a directed reading with 5 or so grad and undergrad >> students this coming semester. But my impression >> is that the "literature" on the subject is flimsy, east coast >> centered, mono-cultural, and generally speaking, pretty >> unhelpful. >> >> I did find a decent introduction to the field here: >> >> _The Elephants Teach: Creative Writing Since 1880_, by David G. Myers. >> I also like, as a tool, Hazel Smith's _The Writing Experiment_, >> though I confess I haven't yet used it to teach by. >> >> But my strong sense is that there needs to me more and better >> writing on the subject, because if the lists I'm seeing >> are any indication, the field is pretty anemic. >> >> aloha, Susan >> >> who is watching: >> >> http://www.goes.noaa.gov/ha2.html > > JP Craig > http://jpcraig.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 11:04:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: on hearing of the American soldiers refusing to return to America after Iraq In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I took the first Poetry Therapy course--awful--at Indiana U of Penna in Indiana Penna. One night at the bar on the main street my friend & I met some guys & when they found I was Jewish they sd, Wait right here don't go anywhere--& they got their only Jewish frat brother to come back to the bar w/ them & they sd, Guess what she is! They thought we shd go out. 'What's it like being Jewish?' they asked me. On 8/15/07 10:30 AM, "CA Conrad" wrote: > Donald HOLY SHIT, is this a conspiracy!? You talk about the Granite State > Hardwood Coffin Factory being converted into homes for the elderly! About a > year and a half ago I drove my friend Frank Sherlock and others out to where > I grew up. More than anything I wanted to see the old coffin factory, The > Boyertown Casket Factory, so I drove us out there, only to discover that IT > WAS CONVERTED INTO AN OLD FOLKS HOME! It was so creepy, especially because > it was late at night. And Frank said, "WHAT!? They're working in reverse > now!" > > And for years my friends had heard the stories of the KKK running the town > (it's all true, and they still do), and we went to the giant farmers market > where the KKK sells its patches right out in the open. A few years ago the > poet Marcella Durand gave a reading in Philadelphia the same week that she > had relatives moving near to where I grew up. I told her about the KKK, and > what it was like, and she acted like I was nuts, or making it up. Well, it > didn't take long for her to find out on her own, and the next time I saw her > she was horrified by the incredible racism, anti-Semitism and homophobia out > there. > > My mother and I landed in that town when I was four, from a previous > marriage, and I was kind of a wild kid. We had lived in her car for a > little over half a year as vagrants, staying at churches, with hippy > friends, The Salvation Army (where they literally make you sing hymns for > your supper) before making it to Boyertown, and that town was owned and run > by the Pennsylvania Dutch, a very serious, stoic bunch. The Conrad family, > who literally adopted us, went about its business of trying to tame me, to > no avail, thank god. But I remember riding my little bicycle up to the > factory, and my aunt Darlene was carrying a very small coffin to the loading > dock, and I asked her who that one was for. She never really liked me or my > mother, and she yelled in her thick German accent, "HEADED FOR OKLAHOMA! > SOME YOUNGSTER OUT THERE WHO DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO BEHAVE HIMSELF!" "What was > his name?" "NEVER YOU MIND HIS NAME! GEET BACK TO THE HAUS CREEK!" My > name is Craig, but they could only pronounce it as Creek. This whole thing > cracks me up now of course, but at the time I remember always feeling like I > had committed a crime, or something. HEHEHE! > > My best memories of that factory are when they would let us in at > Halloween. My mother has a picture of me in a vampire costume with my arms > folded over my chest in a coffin. Another of me sitting up in the coffin > showing my fangs and claws. I think I liked the coffin factory a little too > much. Oh, and then there's my first kiss believe it or not. Being queer in > the paranoid KKK regions of rural Pennsylvania is no joke. But my boyfriend > Jason and I knew that no one went near the factory at night. It was > deserted, and the perfect spot. Experiencing first Love pressed against > a coffin factory's walls seems all too appropriate. It sets the mood > directly in alignment with a sudden and spastic notion of life being NOW, > you know what I mean? > > Oh, and I smoked a lot of dope behind that factory, and even tried to grow > some pot back there once, but someone found it and cut it all down. Fucking > bastards! HEHEHE! The poet Yuri Hospodar also grew up in this town, and > also had family working there, something we discussed at a fever's pitch in > Kevin Killian and Dodie Bellamy's apartment about six months ago, having not > seen one another in person since high school. Yuri was a couple years ahead > of me, editing the school magazine. We were both of course closeted for > excellent reasons, such as not wanting to be murdered. But it was great to > talk about these things with Yuri because I've been away so long that > sometimes the brutality and paranoia of it all seems too dream-like to have > really happened. > > My cousin Jonas, also queer, and about 10 years older than me, knows better > details of this than I do, but we have a cousin named David Conrad who used > to be Dolly Conrad. And Dolly worked in the coffin factory when she decided > to have the sex change, and remained working there after she came back > David. David was not allowed to use the women's room, nor the men's room, > and instead had to use a hole in the floor of the janitor's closet that went > to the sewer. David was my hero for a long time, someone with guts who was > threatened by the Klan and others, always an outsider, always ready to die > in order to stay alive in the world the way he wanted to be. But later I > found out that he went to jail for beating up his girlfriends, and then > he became nothing more than just another asshole man in town. > > Oh and Donald, it's weird too how different generations of army people react > to one another. My grandfather fought in WW2, and was kind of full of > himself. Actually he was a tyrant asshole. And as a little kid I recall my > uncle Dennis being incapable of attending family functions from his post > traumatic stress disorder from his time served in Vietnam. My grandfather > called him a pussy, literally, more than once. And he even said that if he > and his buddies had been in Vietnam that the war would have been won. What > a jerkoff. > > CAConrad > http://PhillySound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 11:41:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Ciccariello Subject: Meme self surge, cleaved MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Meme self surge, cleaved -- Peter Ciccariello http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 12:24:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Heirs, was Dear Buffalo List, a message from Rosemary Ceravolo on her husband Jospeh Ceravolo's "Fits of Dawn" In-Reply-To: <707804.90301.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed She may be doing exactly as he wished. Let's broaden this a bit. I've dealt with a lot of descendants of poets. It's sometimes not a pretty picture. Many do an excellent job. Others know nothing about poetry or publishing and could care less, except, sometimes, about the stray dime. I've had distant cousins ask for outrageous sums of money for use of their relative's work, in effect making publication by anyone unlikely. The heir of one Cuban poet I would have dearly liked to include in my anthology asked for considerably more than the entire budget for the book. The nephew and heir of one important South American poet (who had barely met the deceased) when faced with a choice went for a small selected by a third-rate translator because the publisher offered 12 %. That book fell off the shelves with almiost no notice, but no one else can publish translations of thepoet for several years. Junction Press, my imprint, had offered 10%, staying in print basically forever, and a definitive, large collection with no restrictions as to other translations. There are heirs who don't answer queries, and one at least, of an important English-language Caribbean poet, who may or may not be sitting on a pile of unpublished work, but she wouldn't know because of the heroin. The message is: don't leave this casual or by default. Write a will, appointing as executor(s) someone you trust, and spell out what you want done with the work and what the rights of the heirs are to be, presuming they're not the same person/people.. Be sure to ask your proposed executor beforehand whether she/he is willing to take on the job. Don't wait till you'r old to do this--one never knows. And it doesn't hurt to have a lawyer look over the will and make suggestions. This costs, but presumably the cost will be the least of the expenses poetry has entailed for you. A related issue. What should an executor or heir do if the writer instructs them (think Dickinson and Kafka) to destroy the work or suppress it forever? There are legal implications, but the moral implications are I think more important. I don't have an answer for this one. In the case of the overhyped posthumous Bishop, she might have been wise to specify the manner of permitted publication, say as a scholarly footnote rather than a collection of lost treasures. The heirs would probably have made less money, though. Mark At 11:39 AM 8/16/2007, you wrote: >The fly in the ointment: > >How do you know that his widow isn't doing as Joe Ceravolo wished? > >I'm thinking of the latest case with Elizabeth Bishop's "Edgar Allan >Poe & the Juke-Box". If a poet doesn't want his or her "posthumous" >work published, must he or she burn everything? > >Is it okay to entrust original drafts et al to a friend or widow >with specific instructions and hope for the best? > > >I just took a cursory look at the website; she seems to be making >plans to show some of the unpublished work (as well as create a >better site), so maybe camping on her lawn is not so urgent? Did >she mention a projected date to you for these happenings? > >"Exciting new plans are in progress for the new >official home on the Web of Joseph Ceravolo's Poetry. Audio recordings >of his readings and never before published poems will be made available >to the public in the near future. Check back often as the Web site will >be experiencing a complete redesign very soon." > > >Best, >Amy > >http://www.amyking.org/blog > > > >Thu, 16 Aug 2007 09:25:07 -0500 >UB Poetics discussion group >From: CA Conrad >Subject: Dear Buffalo List,a message from Rosemary Ceravolo on her >husband Jospeh Ceravolo's "Fits of Dawn" > > I promised that I would make this as public as possible. That PDF file of >the Ceravolo chapbook "Fits of Dawn" as it turns out was made by someone who >did not have permission from Rosemary Ceravolo, who is the literary executor >to her late husband's work. > >She wrote me an angry e-mail after finding out about this PDF. > >She was convinced it was Joe Massey who had made the file, but I assured her >it was not, and that neither of us have any idea who made it. And this is >true, and my hope is that the person who DID make it finds out through this >post somehow and has the sense to take it off their server before she finds >them. The sooner the better, trust me on this one, she's not happy, and >she's not messing around! > >But she has, as you can imagine, asked us to no longer forward the PDF file >to those requesting it. And since I've still been getting about half a >dozen new requests each week since the initial FLOOD of requests, I've >decided to agree to make the message from her public. > >I'm very sad about this news. She wants us to refer to the website: >http://josephceravolo.com/ >No disrespect to those who made this site, but it's awful. > >But not as awful as living in a world of bookshelves empty of Ceravolo's >poems. It makes no sense. So many of us Love his poems. So very many of >us. What is all this protection about I wonder? > >I'm sad about this because the experience of the PDF file with the help of >Joe Massey has made it clear that there are HUNDREDS of us hungry poets! >It's been great being in touch with so many of you over the "Fits of Dawn" >PDF that none of us knew was, well, illegal. > >But I encourage EVERYONE to march your asses over to your local library and >ask the interlibrary loan department to order his books. You cannot, must >not, ever be deprived of this amazing poetry! > >LET'S HAVE THE CERAVOLO REVOLUTION ANYWAY! >Hey, is anyone interested in helping me getting about a hundred of us >together to sit on Rosemary Ceravolo's lawn and read his poems through a >bullhorn until she agrees to put out a collected? > >Suppose she doesn't have a lawn? We'll figure it out, don't worry. Life's >too fucking short to worry. But not so short we can't imagine doing >whatever we need to do to change things. > >With an exhilaration of Love for the poems that never feels depleted, >CAConrad >http://PhillySound.blogspot.com > > > >--------------------------------- >Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 09:26:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Meme self surge, cleaved In-Reply-To: <8f3fdbad0708160841k1526f9c0lfa103d71ddc6df5a@mail.gmail.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Lovely to see the switch in tones/colors, Peter. Like something has lifted, at least briefly, off the skull! Stephen V http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ > Meme self surge, > cleaved > > > > > > -- Peter Ciccariello > http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 10:35:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: creative writing praxis/ T & W/program design Comments: To: dgodston@sbcglobal.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Daniel, This is a terrific raft of books, thank you (which brings me to another = problem: how to balance an insatiable appetite for books with real life = constraints (one solution: cut out email)). I frequently use Ron = Padgett's The Teachers & Writers Handbook of Poetic Forms, and will be = using it this fall. =20 And to all teaching creative writing within a department, Do you have pedagogies in common? I was very interested to read Ruth's = post about the creative writing curriculum in the McGhee Division at NYU. = To what extent is the improvisational pedagogy you use shared by other = teachers? For example, is Improvisational Writing a course which various = full-time/part-time teachers teach? (I also have another question, Ruth: = what is the difference, in your program, between a studio and a workshop? = I'm not talking about the preliminary writing workshops but say, the = Poetry Studio and the Poetry Workshop? In what ways is it valuable to = have the two terms? Do they relate to different pedagogies? Different = levels?) Another aspect of this question of program pedagogy/pedagogies, Wystan -- = I understand that in your department creative writing teachers team-teach. = Is this something that happens at both undergraduate and graduate level? = What's the rationale and reward, in your view? cris, I have a question for you too. I couldn't discern any clear shift = in focus informing the Miami University 2003 overhaul of creative writing = requirements. On the ground, what did that shift represent for students/te= achers? Also, more to the point, your creative writing program is large = compared to my situation; it's also very uniquely balanced with the = literature program. They seem pretty much half-and-half in terms of = student numbers. This seems very unusual to me, even to have a BA in = creative writing is unusual, let alone one of comparable size to the BA in = literature. Is there any split in the faculty of the Department of = English along lit/creative writing lines? As you probably know (and D.G. = Myers The Elephants Teach is great on this), there are longstanding = tensions between creative writing and literature within English Departments= (Myers' title derives from Roman Jakobson's contemptuous What next, will = the elephants be teaching zoology, when he heard Nabokov was being = considered for a chair of literature). Such tensions have been apparent = to me in most departments I have had contact with, in some cases they've = led to creative writing establishing an independent department, or leaving = the English Dept -- along with all writing per se -- to become part of a = Communications department. In an integrated department, there is often = still a feeling of a ghetto, where creative writing teachers (often with = an MFA as terminal degree) are not offered teaching in the PhD in = literature programs. I feel this divide is much worse in Ireland, where = creative writing has been introduced to universities only in the last = decade or so. I'm guessing this is not such a problem at Miami --your = recent question about integrating the two BAs suggests a merger between = equal partners, where both have much to gain. The product might seem, at = face value, to be a traditional BA, but that can't be the outcome you = imagine, right? What is your best case scenario? The move toward an = integrated BA seems incredible: sort of a forward backward step ... it = seems you're in a very interesting position there, I'd love to hear more = about it. Mairead >>> Daniel Godston 08/15/07 6:21 PM >>> I agree with Stephen, Teachers & Writers Collaborative (www.twc.org) publishes an amazing range of texts for classroom use. Here are some of my favorites that I have used while working with young people on poetry = writing projects: "Third Mind: Creative Writing Through Visual Art," edited by Tonya Foster = & Kristin Prevallet "Sing the Sun Up: Creative Writing Ideas from African American Literature,"= edited by Lorenzo Thomas "The Art of Science Writing," by Dale Worsley & Bernadette Mayer "How To Make Poetry Comics," by Dave Morice "Dr. Alphabet," by Dave Morice "The Teachers & Writers Guide to William Carlos Williams" "Old Faithful: 18 Writers Present Their Favorite Writing Assignments," edited by Christopher Edgar and Ron Padgett "The Alphabet of the Trees: A Guide to Nature Writing," edited by = Christian McEwen & Mark Statman "The Grammar of Fantasy: An Introduction to the Art of Inventing Stories," by Gianni Rodari "Poetry Everywhere: Teaching Poetry Writing in School and in the Community,= " by Jack Collom and Sheryl Noethe "Tolstoy as Teacher," edited by Bob Blaisdell "Secret Writing: Keys to the Mysteries of Reading and Writing," by Peter Sears -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Stephen Vincent Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 11:35 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: creative writing praxis/ T & W Teachers & Writers Collaborative publishes a wealth of books with a wealth of experience from poets and novelists in their programs. If you go to their website, they be a big list. Some of books are appropriate no matter the age level. Ron Padgett was the Publications editor and coordinator for a zillion = years. Institutionally and pedagogically I don't think T&W has ever proposed, instituted, exercised, or imposed a book of Pedalogical Standards for its writer employees. The good stuff just keeps coming up from 'the bottom' to be shared and variously worked with (even variously rejected) by writer teachers in the field. Such is I think is best! Stephen V Walking Theory (84 pages/ $12, Junction Press) www.junctionpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 09:33:48 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: L Guevarra Subject: NEW BOOK: A Wall of Two Comments: To: poetics@listserv.buffalo.edu. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Buffalo Poetics List: The University of California Press is pleased to announce the publication o= f: A Wall of Two: Poems of Resistance and Suffering=20 from Krak=F3w to Buchenwald and Beyond Henia Karmel and Ilona Karmel were born to an=20 affluent and distinguished family in Krak=F3w.=20 After the war, they both eventually emigrated to=20 the United States, where they continued to write.=20 Henia Karmel is author of _Marek and Lisa._ Ilona=20 Karmel is author of _An Estate of Memory._ Fanny=20 Howe is the author of, among other books, _On the=20 Ground_, _Gone_ (UC Press), and _Selected Poems_=20 (UC Press), winner of the Commonwealth Club Gold=20 Medal for poetry and The Lemore Marshall Poetry=20 Prize from the Academy of American Poets.=20 _Selected Poems_ was also one of the Village=20 Voice's Best Books of the Year. http://go.ucpress.edu/Karmel "The book is a riveting read. The subject, of=20 course, is very compelling and the poems move=20 with great plainness, vividness, and force. The=20 girls survived, though barely, because they were=20 young and strong and because the German war=20 machine needed their bodies. The book is artfully=20 designed to convey the arc of their story from=20 capture to freedom in 1946, and there is, as far=20 as I know, nothing quite like it in the vast=20 literature of the Holocaust. A unique and moving=20 book, of historical significance, rendered into=20 English by one of our most gifted American=20 poets."-Robert Hass Buchenwald survivors Ilona and Henia Karmel were=20 17 and 20 years old when they entered the Nazi=20 labor camps from the Krak=F3w ghetto. These=20 remarkable poems were written during that time.=20 The sisters wrote the poems on worksheets stolen=20 from the factories where they worked by day and=20 hid them in their clothing. During what she=20 thought were the last days of her life, Henia=20 entrusted the poems to a cousin who happened to=20 pass her in the forced march at the end of the=20 war. The cousin gave them to Henia's husband in=20 Krak=F3w, who would not locate and reunite with his=20 wife for another six months. =46ull information about the book, including the=20 table of contents, is available online:=20 http://go.ucpress.edu/Karmel -- Lolita Guevarra Electronic Marketing Coordinator University of California Press Tel. 510.643.4738 | Fax 510.643.7127 lolita.guevarra@ucpress.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 12:59:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: you MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed you they can see it in you. most of them won't say anything, but they know. they can tell what's happened. there's something in you that seems different. you can tell when you look at them. they act differently to you. they seem somehow different but you can't pin it down. all of you know they're going to die. they don't have to say anything, it's taken for granted. it's a smell you can't get rid of, everyone smells it. you don't know where it comes from, but it's there. it's from them, you're almost certain, you're sure they're dead, or almost dead, you know it's not from you, there's something in their eyes. > sondheim has joined. > > sondheim: testing, what one is leaving, > > a footstep across this space, why you can erase it, absolutely! > you wouldn't ever know, it would disappear like any other noise you can hear them behind you, but when you turn around, no one's there and you think, no one's ever been. you're following them down the street, there's something about them, you think to yourself, they bear watching ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 10:00:11 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Salerno Subject: Looking For Contact Information For Christopher Sorrentino In-Reply-To: <46C428600200001E00000EE5@risd.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Colleagues: I'd be grateful, if anyone has Chris's info. Thanks. Mark Salerno ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 13:04:17 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Danon Subject: Re: creative writing praxis/ T & W/program design In-Reply-To: <46C428600200001E00000EE5@risd.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all -- I'm responding to Mairead's questions concerning the McGhee program. The Foundations courses -- as well as all of the other courses -- are rotated among faculty members. I am full time and I have one full time colleague-- otherwise all faculty are part-time. Some of the people I have hired studied with me privately and learned the methodology that way. Others learned by team teaching with me or someone else familiar with the project. I've already hired one of our graduates to teach in the program. (She went on to an MFA at Warren Wilson.) I'm hoping to hire another of our graduates who got an MFA at Brown. Since Creative Writing and Expository Writing are joined at the hip in this program (and we like it that way) many of the methodologies of creative writing find their way to the expository writing classes. We have a reading series and I ask the expository writing faculty to bring their students to these events. This has worked well. Faculty teach both creative writing and expository writing and I try to spread the courses around in some fair way. We also run pedagogical sessions for faculty in addition to regular faculty meetings. The studios and the workshops are different. The names are meaningful. The studios are half way between the pure improv of foundations (and foundations presumes no genre) and the more standard workshop practice of the workshops. (I want students to be fully capable of functioning in graduate school workshop classes). In the studios the students do in class writing but not as much as in Foundations. Additionally they work on craft issues (studios are in Prose, Poetry and Performance and our students must take two out of three) and they read in the genre(s) they are being exposed to. In the workshops the students focus more on writing and revising work and they continue to read. The workshops are even more specialized (Poetry, Fiction, Non Fiction, Screenwriting, Playwriting). In the summer we offer a Special Topics course that allows us to enrich our offerings without having too many courses in a small program. Each summer we offer the Intensive. This year, our tenth annivers ary year, we are focusing attention on global writers -- i.e. writers who in one way or another touch more than American culture. So far we have Bei Dao and Peter Balakian coming and I am working on the fiction writer. If anyone's interested in knowing more about any of this don't hesitate to backchannel or post a question for all to read. As you might have guessed I love our program and love thinking about it. Thank you, Mairead, for your quesitons. Ruth Ruth Danon,Master Teacher, Creative and Expository Writing,McGhee Division, New York University ----- Original Message ----- From: Mairead Byrne Date: Thursday, August 16, 2007 12:37 pm Subject: Re: creative writing praxis/ T & W/program design To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Daniel, > This is a terrific raft of books, thank you (which brings me to > another problem: how to balance an insatiable appetite for books with > real life constraints (one solution: cut out email)). I frequently > use Ron Padgett's The Teachers & Writers Handbook of Poetic Forms, and > will be using it this fall. > And to all teaching creative writing within a department, > Do you have pedagogies in common? I was very interested to read > Ruth's post about the creative writing curriculum in the McGhee > Division at NYU. To what extent is the improvisational pedagogy you > use shared by other teachers? For example, is Improvisational Writing > a course which various full-time/part-time teachers teach? (I also > have another question, Ruth: what is the difference, in your program, > between a studio and a workshop? I'm not talking about the > preliminary writing workshops but say, the Poetry Studio and the > Poetry Workshop? In what ways is it valuable to have the two terms? > Do they relate to different pedagogies? Different levels?) > Another aspect of this question of program pedagogy/pedagogies, > Wystan -- I understand that in your department creative writing > teachers team-teach. Is this something that happens at both > undergraduate and graduate level? What's the rationale and reward, in > your view? > cris, I have a question for you too. I couldn't discern any clear > shift in focus informing the Miami University 2003 overhaul of > creative writing requirements. On the ground, what did that shift > represent for students/teachers? Also, more to the point, your > creative writing program is large compared to my situation; it's also > very uniquely balanced with the literature program. They seem pretty > much half-and-half in terms of student numbers. This seems very > unusual to me, even to have a BA in creative writing is unusual, let > alone one of comparable size to the BA in literature. Is there any > split in the faculty of the Department of English along lit/creative > writing lines? As you probably know (and D.G. Myers The Elephants > Teach is great on this), there are longstanding tensions between > creative writing and literature within English Departments (Myers' > title derives from Roman Jakobson's contemptuous What next, will the > elephants be teaching zoology, when he heard Nabokov was being > considered for a chair of literature). Such tensions have been > apparent to me in most departments I have had contact with, in some > cases they've led to creative writing establishing an independent > department, or leaving the English Dept -- along with all writing per > se -- to become part of a Communications department. In an integrated > department, there is often still a feeling of a ghetto, where creative > writing teachers (often with an MFA as terminal degree) are not > offered teaching in the PhD in literature programs. I feel this > divide is much worse in Ireland, where creative writing has been > introduced to universities only in the last decade or so. I'm > guessing this is not such a problem at Miami --your recent question > about integrating the two BAs suggests a merger between equal > partners, where both have much to gain. The product might seem, at > face value, to be a traditional BA, but that can't be the outcome you > imagine, right? What is your best case scenario? The move toward an > integrated BA seems incredible: sort of a forward backward step ... it > seems you're in a very interesting position there, I'd love to hear > more about it. > Mairead > > >>> Daniel Godston 08/15/07 6:21 PM >>> > I agree with Stephen, Teachers & Writers Collaborative (www.twc.org) > publishes an amazing range of texts for classroom use. Here are some > of my > favorites that I have used while working with young people on poetry > writing > projects: > > "Third Mind: Creative Writing Through Visual Art," edited by Tonya > Foster & > Kristin Prevallet > > "Sing the Sun Up: Creative Writing Ideas from African American Literature," > edited by Lorenzo Thomas > > "The Art of Science Writing," by Dale Worsley & Bernadette Mayer > > "How To Make Poetry Comics," by Dave Morice > > "Dr. Alphabet," by Dave Morice > > "The Teachers & Writers Guide to William Carlos Williams" > > "Old Faithful: 18 Writers Present Their Favorite Writing Assignments," > edited by Christopher Edgar and Ron Padgett > > "The Alphabet of the Trees: A Guide to Nature Writing," edited by Christian > McEwen & Mark Statman > > "The Grammar of Fantasy: An Introduction to the Art of Inventing Stories," > by Gianni Rodari > > "Poetry Everywhere: Teaching Poetry Writing in School and in the Community," > by Jack Collom and Sheryl Noethe > > "Tolstoy as Teacher," edited by Bob Blaisdell > > "Secret Writing: Keys to the Mysteries of Reading and Writing," by Peter > Sears > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Stephen Vincent > Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 11:35 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: creative writing praxis/ T & W > > > Teachers & Writers Collaborative publishes a wealth of books with a wealth > of experience from poets and novelists in their programs. > If you go to their website, they be a big list. > Some of books are appropriate no matter the age level. > Ron Padgett was the Publications editor and coordinator for a zillion > years. > > Institutionally and pedagogically I don't think T&W has ever proposed, > instituted, exercised, or imposed a book of Pedalogical Standards > for its > writer employees. The good stuff just keeps coming up from 'the > bottom' to > be shared and variously worked with (even variously rejected) by writer > teachers in the field. Such is I think is best! > > Stephen V > > Walking Theory (84 pages/ $12, Junction Press) > www.junctionpress.com > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 13:07:56 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: **Last Call: Advertise in Boog City 44** Comments: To: "UB Poetics discussion group "@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Please forward ----------------------- Last Call to Advertise in Boog City 44 *Deadline --Mon. Aug. 20-Ad copy to editor --Wed. Aug. 23-Issue to be distributed Email to reserve ad space ASAP We have 2,250 copies distributed and available free throughout Manhattan's East Village, and Williamsburg and Greenpoint, Brooklyn. ----- Take advantage of our indie discount ad rate. We are once again offering a 50% discount on our 1/8-page ads, cutting them from $60 to $30. (The discount rate also applies to larger ads.) Advertise your small press's newest publications, your own titles or upcoming readings, or maybe salute an author you feel people should be reading, with a few suggested books to buy. And musical acts, advertise your new albums, indie labels your new releases. (We're also cool with donations, real cool.) Email editor@boogcity.com or call 212-842-BOOG(2664) for more information. thanks, David -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 10:13:36 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: creative writing praxis/ T & W/program design In-Reply-To: <46C428600200001E00000EE5@risd.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit As I suggested in earlier post - reiterated here by Mairead - it's, at best, an often delicate relationship, if not hostile, between scholarly and creative practices. Obviously there are poets who have well established their authority as scholar-critics, and similarly, good scholars who write good poetry, and where are the two comfortable and respectful of the different practices. And where the two 'disciplines' feed each other, all the merrier, or, sometimes, the pedantic worstest. I suspect the knee jerk reaction of suspicion to poets who present papers as scholars at the MLA is part of the rankle, too. But, in my opinion, no need to have closure one way or the other. Proof be in the pudding. Seems to me, one of the ways to neutralize the Creative Writing Academic Degrees equation of 'pedagogy' with 'imposition' of 'this is the way to pass the test in order to teach creative writing' is to challenge students to come up with their own creative strategies (exercises) for teaching writing, as well as reading poetry, and in a variety of contexts (the young, middle aged, impoverished or well-educated, ethnically diverse, the old, cancer survivors, etc.) Not in any way to negate the continuing value of exercises that have worked for other 'writers in the field', but to both encourage and look for creative writing students who have the imagination to come up with their own ways of working imaginatively, intuitively, etc. with others. I think this should be part of the 'professional filter', anyway, if needs be. The thought of Writing graduates going out and routinely repeating 'Approved Pedagogical Norms' for teaching Creative Writing, I suspect, is oppressive to most of us here. Writers who spark both work and delight in and out of the classroom is, at least, my idea of a good 'Norm.' Stephen V http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ > Daniel, > This is a terrific raft of books, thank you (which brings me to another > problem: how to balance an insatiable appetite for books with real life > constraints (one solution: cut out email)). I frequently use Ron Padgett's > The Teachers & Writers Handbook of Poetic Forms, and will be using it this > fall. > And to all teaching creative writing within a department, > Do you have pedagogies in common? I was very interested to read Ruth's post > about the creative writing curriculum in the McGhee Division at NYU. To what > extent is the improvisational pedagogy you use shared by other teachers? For > example, is Improvisational Writing a course which various full-time/part-time > teachers teach? (I also have another question, Ruth: what is the difference, > in your program, between a studio and a workshop? I'm not talking about the > preliminary writing workshops but say, the Poetry Studio and the Poetry > Workshop? In what ways is it valuable to have the two terms? Do they relate > to different pedagogies? Different levels?) > Another aspect of this question of program pedagogy/pedagogies, Wystan -- I > understand that in your department creative writing teachers team-teach. Is > this something that happens at both undergraduate and graduate level? What's > the rationale and reward, in your view? > cris, I have a question for you too. I couldn't discern any clear shift in > focus informing the Miami University 2003 overhaul of creative writing > requirements. On the ground, what did that shift represent for > students/teachers? Also, more to the point, your creative writing program is > large compared to my situation; it's also very uniquely balanced with the > literature program. They seem pretty much half-and-half in terms of student > numbers. This seems very unusual to me, even to have a BA in creative writing > is unusual, let alone one of comparable size to the BA in literature. Is > there any split in the faculty of the Department of English along lit/creative > writing lines? As you probably know (and D.G. Myers The Elephants Teach is > great on this), there are longstanding tensions between creative writing and > literature within English Departments (Myers' title derives from Roman > Jakobson's contemptuous What next, will the elephants be teaching zoology, > when he heard Nabokov was being considered for a chair of literature). Such > tensions have been apparent to me in most departments I have had contact with, > in some cases they've led to creative writing establishing an independent > department, or leaving the English Dept -- along with all writing per se -- to > become part of a Communications department. In an integrated department, > there is often still a feeling of a ghetto, where creative writing teachers > (often with an MFA as terminal degree) are not offered teaching in the PhD in > literature programs. I feel this divide is much worse in Ireland, where > creative writing has been introduced to universities only in the last decade > or so. I'm guessing this is not such a problem at Miami --your recent > question about integrating the two BAs suggests a merger between equal > partners, where both have much to gain. The product might seem, at face > value, to be a traditional BA, but that can't be the outcome you imagine, > right? What is your best case scenario? The move toward an integrated BA > seems incredible: sort of a forward backward step ... it seems you're in a > very interesting position there, I'd love to hear more about it. > Mairead > >>>> Daniel Godston 08/15/07 6:21 PM >>> > I agree with Stephen, Teachers & Writers Collaborative (www.twc.org) > publishes an amazing range of texts for classroom use. Here are some of my > favorites that I have used while working with young people on poetry writing > projects: > > "Third Mind: Creative Writing Through Visual Art," edited by Tonya Foster & > Kristin Prevallet > > "Sing the Sun Up: Creative Writing Ideas from African American Literature," > edited by Lorenzo Thomas > > "The Art of Science Writing," by Dale Worsley & Bernadette Mayer > > "How To Make Poetry Comics," by Dave Morice > > "Dr. Alphabet," by Dave Morice > > "The Teachers & Writers Guide to William Carlos Williams" > > "Old Faithful: 18 Writers Present Their Favorite Writing Assignments," > edited by Christopher Edgar and Ron Padgett > > "The Alphabet of the Trees: A Guide to Nature Writing," edited by Christian > McEwen & Mark Statman > > "The Grammar of Fantasy: An Introduction to the Art of Inventing Stories," > by Gianni Rodari > > "Poetry Everywhere: Teaching Poetry Writing in School and in the Community," > by Jack Collom and Sheryl Noethe > > "Tolstoy as Teacher," edited by Bob Blaisdell > > "Secret Writing: Keys to the Mysteries of Reading and Writing," by Peter > Sears > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Stephen Vincent > Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 11:35 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: creative writing praxis/ T & W > > > Teachers & Writers Collaborative publishes a wealth of books with a wealth > of experience from poets and novelists in their programs. > If you go to their website, they be a big list. > Some of books are appropriate no matter the age level. > Ron Padgett was the Publications editor and coordinator for a zillion years. > > Institutionally and pedagogically I don't think T&W has ever proposed, > instituted, exercised, or imposed a book of Pedalogical Standards for its > writer employees. The good stuff just keeps coming up from 'the bottom' to > be shared and variously worked with (even variously rejected) by writer > teachers in the field. Such is I think is best! > > Stephen V > > Walking Theory (84 pages/ $12, Junction Press) > www.junctionpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 12:25:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Skip Fox Subject: Re: creative writing praxis/ T & W/program design In-Reply-To: <46C428600200001E00000EE5@risd.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Susan et al., My friend Jerry McGuire, the poet who established a CW Pedagogy = component for MA & PhD creative writing graduate students at The Univ. of = Louisiana at Lafayette, handed me lengthy bibliography that was compiled by Rebecca Brown, now Dr. Rebecca Brown. On it he marked the few he felt best. I'd = be glad to send anyone the list, but it's approx. 3 1/2 single-spaced pages = and only in paper form (so far), so can only type in those Jerry marked. He = is very knowable about t4he field.=20 ************* Under _Pedagogy_, he marked: Bishop, Wendy, and Hans Ostrom, eds. _Colors of a Different Horse: Rethinking Creative Writing Theory and Pedagogy_. Urbana: Nat. Council = of Teachers of English, 1994. Misson, Ray. "What Are We Teaching in Creative Writing?" Keynote = Address. AATE/ALEA Joint National Conference. Hobart: July, 2001. [errors in citation, publisher's name, book title] Vanderslice, Stephanie. "The Power to Choose: The Case for the = Concept-Based Multigenre Creative Writing Course." _New Writing: The International = Journal for the Practice and Theory of Creative_ 1 (2004):15-21. [error in = citation, title wrong] *************** Under _Process_, he marked: Bernstein, Charles. "Revenge of the Poet-Critic, or The Parts Are = Greater Than the Sum of the Whole." _My Way: Speeches and Poems_. Chicago: = Chicago UP, 1999. 3-17. Gardner, John. _The Art of Fiction_. New York: Vintage, 1983. Hugo, Richard. _Triggering Town_. London: Norton, 1979. ******************* Under _Interdisciplinary Studies_, he marked: Berman, Jeffrey. _Diaries to an English Professor: Pain and Growth in = the Classroom_. Amherst: U of Massachusetts P, 1994. Lindauer, Martin. _Creativity Research Journal: Special Issue: Interdiscplinary, the Psychology of Art and Creativity_. New Jersey: = Lea, 1998. [errors in citation, too strange to figure out] ********************************************************** (I am not responsible for the form of this bibliography.) If anyone wants the entire list, send me your snail mail at = skip@louisiana. Or maybe I can contact Rebecca and get an electron version to post. Typing these in has made me curious about this material. I've been = teaching CW at undergraduate and graduate levels, but have never read a word on = it. Maybe I'll pick up a couple of these and see what they say.=20 (Susan, glad the hurricane weakened and missed. I hope that we on the = Gulf Coast will fair as well with the whatever hurricanes we'll probably = face. The season is just beginning to heat up.) -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] = On Behalf Of Mairead Byrne Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 9:35 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: creative writing praxis/ T & W/program design Daniel, This is a terrific raft of books, thank you (which brings me to another problem: how to balance an insatiable appetite for books with real life constraints (one solution: cut out email)). I frequently use Ron = Padgett's The Teachers & Writers Handbook of Poetic Forms, and will be using it = this fall. =20 And to all teaching creative writing within a department, Do you have pedagogies in common? I was very interested to read Ruth's = post about the creative writing curriculum in the McGhee Division at NYU. To what extent is the improvisational pedagogy you use shared by other teachers? For example, is Improvisational Writing a course which = various full-time/part-time teachers teach? (I also have another question, = Ruth: what is the difference, in your program, between a studio and a = workshop? I'm not talking about the preliminary writing workshops but say, the = Poetry Studio and the Poetry Workshop? In what ways is it valuable to have the = two terms? Do they relate to different pedagogies? Different levels?) Another aspect of this question of program pedagogy/pedagogies, Wystan = -- I understand that in your department creative writing teachers team-teach. = Is this something that happens at both undergraduate and graduate level? What's the rationale and reward, in your view? cris, I have a question for you too. I couldn't discern any clear shift = in focus informing the Miami University 2003 overhaul of creative writing requirements. On the ground, what did that shift represent for students/teachers? Also, more to the point, your creative writing = program is large compared to my situation; it's also very uniquely balanced with = the literature program. They seem pretty much half-and-half in terms of = student numbers. This seems very unusual to me, even to have a BA in creative writing is unusual, let alone one of comparable size to the BA in literature. Is there any split in the faculty of the Department of = English along lit/creative writing lines? As you probably know (and D.G. Myers = The Elephants Teach is great on this), there are longstanding tensions = between creative writing and literature within English Departments (Myers' title derives from Roman Jakobson's contemptuous What next, will the elephants = be teaching zoology, when he heard Nabokov was being considered for a chair = of literature). Such tensions have been apparent to me in most departments = I have had contact with, in some cases they've led to creative writing establishing an independent department, or leaving the English Dept -- = along with all writing per se -- to become part of a Communications = department. In an integrated department, there is often still a feeling of a ghetto, where creative writing teachers (often with an MFA as terminal degree) = are not offered teaching in the PhD in literature programs. I feel this = divide is much worse in Ireland, where creative writing has been introduced to universities only in the last decade or so. I'm guessing this is not = such a problem at Miami --your recent question about integrating the two BAs suggests a merger between equal partners, where both have much to gain. = The product might seem, at face value, to be a traditional BA, but that = can't be the outcome you imagine, right? What is your best case scenario? The = move toward an integrated BA seems incredible: sort of a forward backward = step ... it seems you're in a very interesting position there, I'd love to = hear more about it. Mairead >>> Daniel Godston 08/15/07 6:21 PM >>> I agree with Stephen, Teachers & Writers Collaborative (www.twc.org) publishes an amazing range of texts for classroom use. Here are some of = my favorites that I have used while working with young people on poetry = writing projects: "Third Mind: Creative Writing Through Visual Art," edited by Tonya = Foster & Kristin Prevallet "Sing the Sun Up: Creative Writing Ideas from African American = Literature," edited by Lorenzo Thomas "The Art of Science Writing," by Dale Worsley & Bernadette Mayer "How To Make Poetry Comics," by Dave Morice "Dr. Alphabet," by Dave Morice "The Teachers & Writers Guide to William Carlos Williams" "Old Faithful: 18 Writers Present Their Favorite Writing Assignments," edited by Christopher Edgar and Ron Padgett "The Alphabet of the Trees: A Guide to Nature Writing," edited by = Christian McEwen & Mark Statman "The Grammar of Fantasy: An Introduction to the Art of Inventing = Stories," by Gianni Rodari "Poetry Everywhere: Teaching Poetry Writing in School and in the = Community," by Jack Collom and Sheryl Noethe "Tolstoy as Teacher," edited by Bob Blaisdell "Secret Writing: Keys to the Mysteries of Reading and Writing," by Peter Sears -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Stephen Vincent Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 11:35 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: creative writing praxis/ T & W Teachers & Writers Collaborative publishes a wealth of books with a = wealth of experience from poets and novelists in their programs. If you go to their website, they be a big list. Some of books are appropriate no matter the age level. Ron Padgett was the Publications editor and coordinator for a zillion = years. Institutionally and pedagogically I don't think T&W has ever proposed, instituted, exercised, or imposed a book of Pedalogical Standards for = its writer employees. The good stuff just keeps coming up from 'the bottom' = to be shared and variously worked with (even variously rejected) by writer teachers in the field. Such is I think is best! Stephen V Walking Theory (84 pages/ $12, Junction Press) www.junctionpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 10:27:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: you In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit You and I and them are the same. We don't know where we come from But it must be the same for us all. Alan Sondheim wrote: you they can see it in you. most of them won't say anything, but they know. they can tell what's happened. there's something in you that seems different. you can tell when you look at them. they act differently to you. they seem somehow different but you can't pin it down. all of you know they're going to die. they don't have to say anything, it's taken for granted. it's a smell you can't get rid of, everyone smells it. you don't know where it comes from, but it's there. it's from them, you're almost certain, you're sure they're dead, or almost dead, you know it's not from you, there's something in their eyes. > sondheim has joined. > > sondheim: testing, what one is leaving, > > a footstep across this space, why you can erase it, absolutely! > you wouldn't ever know, it would disappear like any other noise you can hear them behind you, but when you turn around, no one's there and you think, no one's ever been. you're following them down the street, there's something about them, you think to yourself, they bear watching --------------------------------- Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 10:56:41 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: Dear Buffalo List, a message from Rosemary Ceravolo on her husband Jospeh Ceravolo's "Fits of Dawn" In-Reply-To: <707804.90301.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I looked at the web site containing some of Ceravolo's poems. I could be wrong because I've never seen this poem before but the first poem appeared to be more than one poem without any indication of that. Am I wrong? amy king wrote: The fly in the ointment: How do you know that his widow isn't doing as Joe Ceravolo wished? I'm thinking of the latest case with Elizabeth Bishop's "Edgar Allan Poe & the Juke-Box". If a poet doesn't want his or her "posthumous" work published, must he or she burn everything? Is it okay to entrust original drafts et al to a friend or widow with specific instructions and hope for the best? I just took a cursory look at the website; she seems to be making plans to show some of the unpublished work (as well as create a better site), so maybe camping on her lawn is not so urgent? Did she mention a projected date to you for these happenings? "Exciting new plans are in progress for the new official home on the Web of Joseph Ceravolo's Poetry. Audio recordings of his readings and never before published poems will be made available to the public in the near future. Check back often as the Web site will be experiencing a complete redesign very soon." Best, Amy http://www.amyking.org/blog Thu, 16 Aug 2007 09:25:07 -0500 UB Poetics discussion group From: CA Conrad Subject: Dear Buffalo List,a message from Rosemary Ceravolo on her husband Jospeh Ceravolo's "Fits of Dawn" I promised that I would make this as public as possible. That PDF file of the Ceravolo chapbook "Fits of Dawn" as it turns out was made by someone who did not have permission from Rosemary Ceravolo, who is the literary executor to her late husband's work. She wrote me an angry e-mail after finding out about this PDF. She was convinced it was Joe Massey who had made the file, but I assured her it was not, and that neither of us have any idea who made it. And this is true, and my hope is that the person who DID make it finds out through this post somehow and has the sense to take it off their server before she finds them. The sooner the better, trust me on this one, she's not happy, and she's not messing around! But she has, as you can imagine, asked us to no longer forward the PDF file to those requesting it. And since I've still been getting about half a dozen new requests each week since the initial FLOOD of requests, I've decided to agree to make the message from her public. I'm very sad about this news. She wants us to refer to the website: http://josephceravolo.com/ No disrespect to those who made this site, but it's awful. But not as awful as living in a world of bookshelves empty of Ceravolo's poems. It makes no sense. So many of us Love his poems. So very many of us. What is all this protection about I wonder? I'm sad about this because the experience of the PDF file with the help of Joe Massey has made it clear that there are HUNDREDS of us hungry poets! It's been great being in touch with so many of you over the "Fits of Dawn" PDF that none of us knew was, well, illegal. But I encourage EVERYONE to march your asses over to your local library and ask the interlibrary loan department to order his books. You cannot, must not, ever be deprived of this amazing poetry! LET'S HAVE THE CERAVOLO REVOLUTION ANYWAY! Hey, is anyone interested in helping me getting about a hundred of us together to sit on Rosemary Ceravolo's lawn and read his poems through a bullhorn until she agrees to put out a collected? Suppose she doesn't have a lawn? We'll figure it out, don't worry. Life's too fucking short to worry. But not so short we can't imagine doing whatever we need to do to change things. With an exhilaration of Love for the poems that never feels depleted, CAConrad http://PhillySound.blogspot.com --------------------------------- Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. --------------------------------- Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 14:03:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: you In-Reply-To: <811028.99636.qm@web31106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed or we are entirely different, know where we are from, utterly different, one from another On Thu, 16 Aug 2007, Thomas savage wrote: > You and I and them are the same. > We don't know where we come from > But it must be the same for us all. > > Alan Sondheim wrote: > you > > they can see it in you. > most of them won't say anything, but they know. > they can tell what's happened. > there's something in you that seems different. > you can tell when you look at them. > they act differently to you. > they seem somehow different but you can't pin it down. > > all of you know they're going to die. > they don't have to say anything, it's taken for granted. > it's a smell you can't get rid of, everyone smells it. > you don't know where it comes from, but it's there. > it's from them, you're almost certain, you're sure they're > dead, or almost dead, you know it's not from you, there's > something in their eyes. > > >> sondheim has joined. >> >> sondheim: testing, what one is leaving, >> >> a footstep across this space, why you can erase it, absolutely! >> you wouldn't ever know, it would disappear like any other noise > > you can hear them behind you, but when you turn around, no one's > there and you think, no one's ever been. > you're following them down the street, there's something about > them, you think to yourself, they bear watching > > > > --------------------------------- > Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. > > ======================================================================= Work on YouTube, blog at http://nikuko.blogspot.com . Tel 718-813-3285. Webpage directory http://www.asondheim.org . Email: sondheim@panix.com. http://clc.as.wvu.edu:8080/clc/Members/sondheim for theory; also check WVU Zwiki, Google for recent. Write for info on books, cds, performance, dvds, etc. ============================================================= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 14:35:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: sad to annoucne the passing of max roach this morning MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit he was 83 how come i am not getting any poetics messages are there not any? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 12:16:53 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Re: you MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit DEAR BIRDS, TELL THIS TO MOTHERS Education consists in instilling into them the universal mind. –W.T. Stace after Hegel Fly, birds, over all grieving mothers. Tell them, if they know more, They will grieve less. Tell them that the children they grieve for Are as mysterious as the God they pray to; For God’s way is in them. Tell them that the children who came from their bodies Have come from so far away, And from so much; And that these children Are going for so much Of Hell and Heaven, dark and light— That mothers can be as away from them As lost lines in the early poetry of France. Find the lost lines in The writing that is your child, mothers (Dear birds, tell them), And you will not grieve; You will stand up In sweet universality. You will be God’s mothers, Not just your own. –Eli Siegel [more on Siegel - http://amyking.org/blog/?p=374] From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: you or we are entirely different, know where we are from, utterly different, one from another On Thu, 16 Aug 2007, Thomas savage wrote: > You and I and them are the same. > We don't know where we come from > But it must be the same for us all. > > Alan Sondheim wrote: > you > > they can see it in you. > most of them won't say anything, but they know. > they can tell what's happened. > there's something in you that seems different. > you can tell when you look at them. > they act differently to you. > they seem somehow different but you can't pin it down. > > all of you know they're going to die. > they don't have to say anything, it's taken for granted. > it's a smell you can't get rid of, everyone smells it. > you don't know where it comes from, but it's there. > it's from them, you're almost certain, you're sure they're > dead, or almost dead, you know it's not from you, there's > something in their eyes. > > >> sondheim has joined. >> >> sondheim: testing, what one is leaving, >> >> a footstep across this space, why you can erase it, absolutely! >> you wouldn't ever know, it would disappear like any other noise > > you can hear them behind you, but when you turn around, no one's > there and you think, no one's ever been. > you're following them down the street, there's something about > them, you think to yourself, they bear watching > --------------------------------- Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 15:13:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: sad to annoucne the passing of max roach this morning Comments: To: "steve d. dalachinsky" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 that news really hurts -- last time I saw him was on a stage at Howard University as he improvised along with poetry by Amiri Baraka -- Max Roach moved really slowly on his way to the stage, so slowly that I was worried about him -- but once he was behind his drums, it was as if the years fell away and he was a joyful kid again -- >On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 14:35:11 -0400 "steve d. dalachinsky" wrote: > > he was 83 > > > > how come i am not getting any poetics messages are there not any? > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We are enslaved by what makes us free -- intolerable paradox at the heart of speech. --Robert Kelly Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 14:23:20 CDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: sad to annoucne the passing of max roach this morning MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII oh! the last of the great greats! saw him in calif, in MN, ...oh! On 16 Aug 2007, ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > that news really hurts -- last time I saw him was on a stage at Howard > University as he improvised along with poetry by Amiri Baraka -- Max Roach > moved really slowly on his way to the stage, so slowly that I was worried > about > him -- but once he was behind his drums, it was as if the years fell away and > he was a joyful kid again -- > > >On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 14:35:11 -0400 "steve d. dalachinsky" > > wrote: > > > > he was 83 > > > > > > > > how come i am not getting any poetics messages are there not any? > > > > > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > We are enslaved by > what makes us free -- intolerable > paradox at the heart of speech. > --Robert Kelly > > Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > > Aldon L. Nielsen > Kelly Professor of American Literature > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 12:57:15 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: sad to annoucne the passing of max roach this morning In-Reply-To: <200708161923.l7GJNKkC008515@vanguard.software.umn.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The discography is way rich. But so important to many of us - way back - was Freedom Now Suite (1961) - with Abbey Lincoln (incredible 'primal scream' vocals), Olatunji (also on drums), and Coleman Hawkins. (Check out the great cover of the original). It was unavoidably one of initial, touch stone anthems of what was brewing in more ways than one. You could not hear it without knowing that things were about to rip. Max Roach was clearly - here - the fathering spirit. A real passing for many of us. Stephen V http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ > oh! the last of the great greats! saw him in calif, in MN, ...oh! > > On 16 Aug 2007, ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: >> that news really hurts -- last time I saw him was on a stage at Howard >> University as he improvised along with poetry by Amiri Baraka -- Max Roach >> moved really slowly on his way to the stage, so slowly that I was worried >> about >> him -- but once he was behind his drums, it was as if the years fell away > and >> he was a joyful kid again -- >> >>> On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 14:35:11 -0400 "steve d. dalachinsky" >> >> wrote: >>> >>> he was 83 >>> >>> >>> >>> how come i am not getting any poetics messages are there not any? >>> >>> >> >> >> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> We are enslaved by >> what makes us free -- intolerable >> paradox at the heart of speech. >> --Robert Kelly >> >> Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ >> >> Aldon L. Nielsen >> Kelly Professor of American Literature >> The Pennsylvania State University >> 116 Burrowes >> University Park, PA 16802-6200 >> >> (814) 865-0091 >> ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 16:00:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "J.P. Craig" Subject: Re: creative writing praxis In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Indeed that is the case. (That's the end of my reply to Ruth. The rest is addressed more generally.) Stand back while I swat the flies off this poor dead horse. This started with someone talking about Iowa in Hawai'i. That is: someone asked for a degree, a certification, and they got exams. Surprise. ACT and NCS are both based in Iowa City, really close to the Iowa Writer's Workshop. Some folks work in both places. (If you're wondering why I bring this up, I think you're on the right track. If you see my point, you're also on the right track.) The question remains, and I mean this sincerely: can we consider such reminders and provocations pedagogical, as proper in a classroom? I do. I think such wholistic approaches, linking creation and critique (the left hand of creation) with daily life is one of the best ways to proceed individually. This may be quite different from the best way to proceed institutionally. It is easy to dismiss advice like "write at the same time every day," but research (which means someone with a license to make more licenses says so AND means that some someones have found it to be so) suggests that this really works. I think taking seriously lists like Mayer's is to take our own egos, both personal and professional, a little less seriously and also to take risks, which is to take ourselves very seriously in deed. In a way I see participants in this thread recapping the argument between Duncan and Levertov over the value of his decision to attempt ballad forms, as he (perhaps condescendingly) said to Levertov to disrupt the sure course of his work. There's the secure course. And there's the productive course, which may be sure. Then there's the course that comes with a number, which may be sure, productive, or some combo. What on earth is the value of criteria? They establish their own values. Evaluation becomes a value. The question is where that is located: in the institution, in the writer, reader, Rasula's wreader? I think Hejinian is really useful when she reminds us that a poem is an investment of energy and that both poet and reader gamble on the value of the outcome. These are old, old arguments, known to even junior faculty. I prefer to stick with the verb end of it. Whatever gets material on the page or screen whatever, reading is generative. That's not the classroom, though I earn my bread there. But the classroom can make room for, if not contain, the idea that reading and writing is a practice measurable only on an ever-shifting scale. In this way I ask if we can consider works like A Test of Poetry that is at best an odd manual of poetry production to be a legitimate manual of poetry production? Okay so that's one response to the challenge of poetry pedagogy. Here's another: There are any number of schools, and we can't escape that. But must we begin by placing ourselves in this or that school self-consciously or can we attempt in some way to derange our experience toward the experience of our materials. Are our students materials in some sense? Should we allow our words to be as free as we'd have our students be? Or: here we are in our school; let us work. A third response, with a post-test: maybe we should certify people as suitable teachers of poetry ONLY after their students have demonstrated something we recognize as success. For example, might we now and only now give Duncan a certification to teach, based on Palmer, Mackey, and some others? Or maybe we can give H.D. one for her work in producing a Howe? Or do we not offer certifications based on distance learning? ((Can we offer an certificate to an existent non-entity, to, for example, a pidgin?) safely buried) An Exam. Question One. Why isn't Bromige's "I Read This Someplace" different from Pound's first canto? Question Two. Why should YOU give a damn? Question Three. We are all liars. Our pants burn for love of it. ((To be less snotty, here's the Bromige: I Read This Someplace The lyre bird amid the eucalyptus listening for every sound he hears to trip him into sound he makes. He has no call or song his own. He imitates. Each time he utters something chances are it is his soul that speaks. On Aug 16, 2007, at 11:00 AM, Ruth Lepson wrote: > Mayer's aren;t exers. in the usual sense but ways to shake people > out of > slumber & therefore terrific. Things like Write when you don;t feel > like it, > Write before falling asleep, Write at the same time every day. > > > On 8/15/07 9:26 AM, "J.P. Craig" wrote: > >> I don't know if this fits, but there's the Palgrave Poetry and >> Pedagogy that came out recently. I've found it interesting. I'm going >> to be presenting with some friends from Iowa at the Midwest Writing >> Center Association conference this fall on using writing center >> techniques to teach creative writing. Specifically, we're trying to >> find and discuss alternative to the "workshop" model that we found >> lacking because, in my case, it was far too limiting on students' >> output, too product-oriented and normative. >> >> I'd really be interested in the lists you've generated so far, both >> of the helpful and unhelpful materials. >> >> Are these MA comps exams? Or is it some sort of certification exam >> aborning (as if an MA comps exam isn't, I suppose). >> >> I'm really interested in this primarily because I like teaching >> writing, and though I tend to be paid for teaching comp or ESL, I >> like encouraging and assisting young creative writers too. I'm also >> interested because my M.F.A. experience was unhelpful to my writing. >> I found the PhD in literature to be much more helpful to my writing, >> but then again I'm a sort of bookish person and not particularly >> successful as a professional poet. >> >> I wonder if things like Bernadette Mayer's experiment or other lists >> of procedures could be considered as pedagogical theory for poets? >> Are books like Koch's Wishes Lies and Dreams, though aimed at >> children, be considered useful pedagogical theory for us (maybe too >> East Coast for your needs?). I guess this move may be a tired one, >> but it's still useful: I'm asking if this is an opportunity to >> broaden what we might consider a poetry pedagogy text. Does it >> overlap literature; can we include A Test of Poetry, How to Write, >> and so on? >> >> On Aug 14, 2007, at 12:27 AM, Susan Webster Schultz wrote: >> >>> Increasingly, MA students at UH are asking to take exams in >>> Creative Writing Pedagogy, and increasingly >>> I'm being asked to be an examiner in this field. As to what that >>> field might be, I'll perhaps know better after >>> conducting a directed reading with 5 or so grad and undergrad >>> students this coming semester. But my impression >>> is that the "literature" on the subject is flimsy, east coast >>> centered, mono-cultural, and generally speaking, pretty >>> unhelpful. >>> >>> I did find a decent introduction to the field here: >>> >>> _The Elephants Teach: Creative Writing Since 1880_, by David G. >>> Myers. >>> I also like, as a tool, Hazel Smith's _The Writing Experiment_, >>> though I confess I haven't yet used it to teach by. >>> >>> But my strong sense is that there needs to me more and better >>> writing on the subject, because if the lists I'm seeing >>> are any indication, the field is pretty anemic. >>> >>> aloha, Susan >>> >>> who is watching: >>> >>> http://www.goes.noaa.gov/ha2.html >> >> JP Craig >> http://jpcraig.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 22:54:04 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: Dear Buffalo List, a message from Rosemary Ceravolo on her husband Jospeh Ceravolo's "Fits of Dawn" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear CA Conrad, sorry you got into trouble. And thank you for the file I received some time ago and never thanked you for it. On 8/16/07, CA Conrad wrote: > > I promised that I would make this as public as possible. That PDF file of > the Ceravolo chapbook "Fits of Dawn" as it turns out was made by someone > who > did not have permission from Rosemary Ceravolo, who is the literary > executor > to her late husband's work. > > She wrote me an angry e-mail after finding out about this PDF. > > She was convinced it was Joe Massey who had made the file, but I assured > her > it was not, and that neither of us have any idea who made it. And this is > true, and my hope is that the person who DID make it finds out through > this > post somehow and has the sense to take it off their server before she > finds > them. The sooner the better, trust me on this one, she's not happy, and > she's not messing around! > > But she has, as you can imagine, asked us to no longer forward the PDF > file > to those requesting it. And since I've still been getting about half a > dozen new requests each week since the initial FLOOD of requests, I've > decided to agree to make the message from her public. > > I'm very sad about this news. She wants us to refer to the website: > http://josephceravolo.com/ > No disrespect to those who made this site, but it's awful. > > But not as awful as living in a world of bookshelves empty of Ceravolo's > poems. It makes no sense. So many of us Love his poems. So very many of > us. What is all this protection about I wonder? > > I'm sad about this because the experience of the PDF file with the help of > Joe Massey has made it clear that there are HUNDREDS of us hungry poets! > It's been great being in touch with so many of you over the "Fits of Dawn" > PDF that none of us knew was, well, illegal. > > But I encourage EVERYONE to march your asses over to your local library > and > ask the interlibrary loan department to order his books. You cannot, must > not, ever be deprived of this amazing poetry! > > LET'S HAVE THE CERAVOLO REVOLUTION ANYWAY! > Hey, is anyone interested in helping me getting about a hundred of us > together to sit on Rosemary Ceravolo's lawn and read his poems through a > bullhorn until she agrees to put out a collected? > > Suppose she doesn't have a lawn? We'll figure it out, don't > worry. Life's > too fucking short to worry. But not so short we can't imagine doing > whatever we need to do to change things. > > With an exhilaration of Love for the poems that never feels depleted, > CAConrad > http://PhillySound.blogspot.com > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 15:56:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Skip Fox Subject: Re: creative writing praxis In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Both Paul Nelson and Mairead Byrne were interested in the entire bibliography so I wrote Rebecca and she promptly sent it. I hope it = comes through as the rest of this post (it's imported from a Word file). = You'll probably have to allow for the lose of italics and breaks at the end of = long lines. Is there a better way to do this? Here is the original bibliography that Rebecca Brown compiled (and was = nice to so promptly send me) with (she told me) Dan Sargeant and the help of = Joy Whitehall.=20 She asks me to say that she knows it's a bit dated and has incomplete bibliographical information at times. All I've done is to put double asterisks (**) before the ones poet and professor Jerry McGuire recommended. (It would be great if someone would compile the recommendations from all = the replies to Susan's praxis query. Of course, if that someone was an = annotated bibliographer, a text might result which would be of great use to anyone teaching the teaching of creative writing as well as those teaching it.) Creative Writing Pedagogy Reading List Pedagogy Amato, Joe, and Kassia Fleisher. "Reforming Creative Writing Pedagogy: History as=20 Knowledge, Knowledge as Activism." Electronic Book Review. 12 (2001) http://www.electronicbookreview.com/pedagogy/amato.htm. Annas, Pamela J. "Silences: Feminist Language Research and the Teaching = of Writing." =20 Teaching Writing: Pedagogy, Gender and Equity. Ed. Cynthia Greenwood and Gillian R. Overing. Albany: State U of New York Press, 1987. 3-18. Bishop, Wendy and Hans Ostrom, Eds. Colors of a Different Horse: Rethinking=20 Creative Writing Theory and Pedagogy. Urbana: National Council of = Teachers of=20 English, 1994. Bishop, Wendy, ed. Elements of Alternate Style: essays on writing and revision. =20 Portsmouth: Boynton/Cook Publishers, 1997. =20 Bishop, Wendy. Released into Language: Options for Teaching Creative Writing. =20 Urbana: National Council of Teachers of English, 1990. Bishop, Wendy. "Teaching Undergraduate Creative Writing: Myths, = Mentors, and=20 Metaphors." Journal of Teaching Writing 7 (1988): 83-102. Bridwell-Bowles, Lillian. "Discourse and Diversity: Experimental = Writing within the=20 Academy." College Composition and Communication 43 (1992): 349-368. Caywood, Cynthia L and Gilliam R. Overing, eds. Teaching Writing: = Pedagogy, Gender,=20 and Equity. New York: State U of New York P, 1986. Dawson, Paul. "Towards a New Poetics in Creative Writing Pedagogy." = Text 7 (2001) http://www.griffith.edu.au/school/art/text/april03/dawson.htm Dvorak, Kevin. "Creative Writing Workshops for ESL Writers." ESL = Writers: A Guide=20 for Writing Center Tutors. Ed. Shanti Bruce and Ben Rafuth. = Portsmouth, NH: =20 Boynton/Cook, 2004. Ede, Lisa S. and Andrea Lunsford. Singular Texts/Plural Authors: Perspectives on=20 Collaborative Writing. Carbondale, IL: Southern Illinois UP, 1990. Edmundson, Mark. Why Read. New York: Bloomsbury, 2004. Fenza, D.W. "Creative Writing & Its Discontents." The Writer's = Chronicle. 2000=20 http://www.awpwriter.org/magazine/writers/fenza01.htm Forster, E.M. Aspects of the Novel. Orlando: Harcourt, 1927. Freire, Paolo. Pedagogy of the Oppressed. New York: Seabury Press, 1971. = Green, Chris. "Materializing the Sublime Reader: Cultural Studies, = Reader Response,=20 and Community Service in the Creative Writing Workshop." College = English 64.2 (2001): 153-74. Haake, Katharine. What Our Speech Disrupts: Feminism and Creative = Writing Studies. =20 Urbana: National Council of Teachers of English, 2000. hooks, bell. Teaching to Transgress: Education as the Practice of Freedom. New=20 York: Routledge, 1994. Kinneavy, James. "A Pluralistic Synthesis of Four Contemporary Models = for Teaching=20 Composition." Lim, Shirley. "The Strangeness of Creative Writing: An Institutional = Query." Pedagogy 3 (2003): 151-169. Lindler, Vicki. "The Tale of Two Bethanies: Trauma in the Creative = Writing Class." =20 New Writing: The International Journal for the Practice and Theory of Creative. 1 (2004): 6-14. MacFarland, Ron. "An Apologia for Creative Writing." College English = 55 (1993): 28- 45. Miles,Robert. "CreativeWriting, Contemporary Theoiry and the English Curriculum." =20 Teaching Creative Writing: Theory and Practice. Ed. Moira Monteith and Robert Miles. Buckingham: Open University Press, 1992. 34-44. Misson, Ray. "What are we Creating in Creative Writing?" Keynote = Address. AATE/ALEA Joint National Conference. Hobart: July, 2001. Moxley, Joseph, ed. Creative Writing in America: Theory and Pedagogy. Urbana:=20 National Council of Teachers of English, 1989. Orr, Gregory. Richer Entanglements: Essays and Notes on Poetry and = Poems. Ann=20 Arbor: University of Michigan Press, 1993. Orr, Gregory and Ellen Voigt, Eds. Poets Teaching Poets. Ann Arbor: University of=20 Michigan Press, 1996. Perloff, Marjorie. "Theory and/in the Creative Writing Classroom." AWP Newsletter=20 (November/December 1987). Tompkins, Jane. Life In School: What the Teacher Learned. Reading, = Mass: Addison=20 Wesley, 1996. Vanderslice, Stephanie. "The Power to Choose: The Case for the Concept-based=20 Multigenre Creative Writing Course." New Writing: The International Journal for the Practice and Theory of Creative. 1 (2004):15-21.=20 History Aldridge, John W. Talents and Technicians: Literary Chic and the New Assembly Line=20 Fiction. New York: Charles Scriber's Sons, 1992. Aristotle. "Poetics." The Complete Works of Aristotle. The revised = Oxford translation.=20 Vol 2. Ed. Jonathan Barnes. Bollingen Series LXXI. Princeton: Princeton = UP, 1984. 2316-40. Aristotle. "The Rhetoric." The Complete Works of Aristotle. The revised Oxford=20 translation. Vol 2. Ed. Jonathan Barnes. Bollingen Series LXXI. = Princeton: Princeton UP, 1984. Brodkey, Linda. "Modernism and the Scene(s) of Writing." College = English 49.4 (April=20 1987): 396-418. Emerson, Ralph Waldo. "The Poet." =20 Graff, Gerald. Professing Literature: An Institutional History. University of Chicago=20 Press, 1990. Koethe, John. "Contrary Impulses: The Tension Between Poetry and = Theory." Critical=20 Inquiry 18 (1991) 64-75. Mallarme. "The Evolution of Literature." =20 Myers, D.G. The Elephants Teach: Creative Writing Since 1880. = Englewood Cliffs:=20 Prentice Hall, 1995. Nietzche, F.. "The Birth of Tragedy." =20 Radavich, David. "Creative Writing in the Academy." Profession 1999. 106-112. Shelley, Percy Blythe. "A Defense of Poetry." =20 Stitt, Peter. "Writers, Theorists, and the Department of English." AWP Newsletter=20 (September/October 1987). Tate, Allen. "'We Read as Writers: The Creative Arts Program and How it = is Helping=20 Freshman Would-Be Authors." Princeton Alumni Weekly 40 (1940): 505-6. Process Bernstein, Charles. "Revenge of the Poet-Critic, or The Parts are = Greater than the Sum of=20 the Whole." My Way: Speeches and Poems. Chicago: Chicago UP, 1999. = 3-17. Cixous. Helene. Three Steps on the Ladder of Writing. Columbia = University Press,=20 1994. Eliot, T.S. "Tradition and the Individual Talent." The Sacred Wood: Essays on Poetry=20 and Criticism. Toronto: Metheun Publications, 1922 Gardner, John. The Art of Fiction. New York: Vintage Books, 1983. Huddle, Richard. "What you Get for Good Writing." A David Huddle = Reader. Hanover:=20 University Press of New England, 1994. 28-38. Hugo, Richard. Triggering Town. London: W.W. Norton & Company, 1979. Kristeva, Julia. Revolution in Poetic Language. Trans. Margaret = Waller. New York:=20 Columbia UP, 1984. Kundera, Milan. The Art of the Novel. Trans. Linda Asher. Grove Press, 1988 Lamott, Anne. Bird by Bird: Some Instructions on Writing and Life. New York: Anchor=20 Books, 1995. Minot, Stephen. Three Genres: The Writing of Poetry, Fiction, and = Drama. Engelwood=20 Cliffs: Prentice Hall, 1997. O'Connor, Flannery. Mystery and Manners. New York: Noonday Press, = 1957.=20 Rilke, Rainer Maria. Letters to a Young Poet. Trans. Stephen Mitchell. = New York:=20 Vintage Books, 1984.=20 Stafford, William. Writing the Australian Crawl: Views on the Writer's Vocation. =20 University of Michigan Press, 1974. Interdisciplinary Studies Berman, Jeffrey. Diaries to an English Professor: Pain and Growth in = the Classroom. =20 Amherst: The University of Massachusetts Press, 1994. Deleuze, Gilles and Felix Guattari. "What Is a Minor Literature?" = Falling Into Theory. =20 Ed. David Richter. New York: St Martin's, 2000. 167-174. Florida, Richard. The Rise of the Creative Class. New York: Basic = Books, 2002. =20 Gioia, Dana. "Can Poetry Matter?" The Atlantic Monthly. May 1991. Graff, Gerald. Beyond the Culture Wars. New York: Norton, 1993. Hall, Donald. "Death to the Death of Poetry." www.poets/org. Lefevre, Karen. Invention as a Social Act. Carbondale: SUI Press, 1987 Lindauer, Martin. Creativity Research Journal: Special Issue : Interdisciplinarity, the=20 Psychology of Art, and Creativity. New Jersey: Lea, 1998. Journals, etc. -AWP -New Writings ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 14:53:01 -0700 Reply-To: sanjdoller@gmail.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: sandra de 1913 Subject: GO NORTH + Seismosis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline GO NORTH A SPACE for CONTEMPORARY ART 469 Main St., Beacon, NY 12508 gonorthgallery@hotmail.com www.gonorthgallery.blogspot.com FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Drafting a Common (Abstract) Language: Seismosis as Conversation Saturday, August 18th, 2PM @ GO NORTH GALLERY Go North is please to present "Drafting a Common (Abstract) Language: Seismosis as Conversation". Co-authors of the book Seismosis (1913 Press, 2006), John Keene and Christopher Stackhouse will explore the process and practice of conversation across and through distinctive generic lines--visual art and literature--by discussing and reading poems from and selected texts related to this collaborative project. Issues they hope to touch upon include the question of formal and thematic abstraction in specific genres, its relation to questions of race, identification, and authorial agency and autonomy, and the problematics of interpretation. How can the artist and poet speak to each other, and are there languages other than the ones they enact through which to enter their conversation? "Drafting a Common (Abstract) Language: Seismosis as Conversation" is organized in conjunction with "Out of Line" an exhibition of work by 11 artists who use line as an expressive, formal, or conceptual element within traditional and non-traditional mediums. The show will be on view from August 4 to August 26, 2007. Copies of Seismosis will be available for purchase in the gallery. Participating artists in "Out of Line" include: Elizabeth Beckman, Thomas Egan, Pamela Hardenburg, Erica Hauser, Kit Keith, Adam Menzies, Jon Patrick Murphy, Christopher Stackhouse, James Walsh, Eleanor White and Mike White. Founded in September 2006 by artists Karlos Carcamo and Gregory Slick, Go North's mission is to exhibit and promote art by local, national, and international artists. Its focus is contemporary art that is dedicated to exploring cutting-edge cultural and artistic issues by pushing the boundaries of traditional media. The gallery gives artists the opportunity to expand and explore new dimensions in their work while providing an important cultural resource to the growing arts community of Beacon, New York. Gallery hours: Saturday and Sunday 12 - 6 PM, Friday by appointment. -- http://journal1913.org/seismosis.html http://www.journal1913.org http://www.1913press.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 01:30:23 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: creative writing praxis In-Reply-To: <000001c7e047$f8d27370$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline wow congratulations to Rebecca B., and Dan S., and Joy W., and thanks to Skip. How was it? Had I only eternity... On 8/16/07, Skip Fox wrote: > > Both Paul Nelson and Mairead Byrne were interested in the entire > bibliography so I wrote Rebecca and she promptly sent it. I hope it comes > through as the rest of this post (it's imported from a Word file). You'll > probably have to allow for the lose of italics and breaks at the end of > long > lines. Is there a better way to do this? > > Here is the original bibliography that Rebecca Brown compiled (and was > nice > to so promptly send me) with (she told me) Dan Sargeant and the help of > Joy > Whitehall. > > She asks me to say that she knows it's a bit dated and has incomplete > bibliographical information at times. > > All I've done is to put double asterisks (**) before the ones poet and > professor Jerry McGuire recommended. > > (It would be great if someone would compile the recommendations from all > the > replies to Susan's praxis query. Of course, if that someone was an > annotated > bibliographer, a text might result which would be of great use to anyone > teaching the teaching of creative writing as well as those teaching it.) > > > > Creative Writing Pedagogy Reading List > > Pedagogy > Amato, Joe, and Kassia Fleisher. "Reforming Creative Writing Pedagogy: > History as > Knowledge, Knowledge as Activism." Electronic Book Review. 12 (2001) > http://www.electronicbookreview.com/pedagogy/amato.htm. > > Annas, Pamela J. "Silences: Feminist Language Research and the Teaching > of > Writing." > Teaching Writing: Pedagogy, Gender and Equity. Ed. Cynthia Greenwood and > Gillian R. Overing. Albany: State U of New York Press, 1987. 3-18. > > Bishop, Wendy and Hans Ostrom, Eds. Colors of a Different Horse: > Rethinking > Creative Writing Theory and Pedagogy. Urbana: National Council of > Teachers > of > English, 1994. > > Bishop, Wendy, ed. Elements of Alternate Style: essays on writing and > revision. > Portsmouth: Boynton/Cook Publishers, 1997. > > Bishop, Wendy. Released into Language: Options for Teaching Creative > Writing. > Urbana: National Council of Teachers of English, 1990. > > Bishop, Wendy. "Teaching Undergraduate Creative Writing: Myths, Mentors, > and > Metaphors." Journal of Teaching Writing 7 (1988): 83-102. > > Bridwell-Bowles, Lillian. "Discourse and Diversity: Experimental Writing > within the > Academy." College Composition and Communication 43 (1992): 349-368. > > Caywood, Cynthia L and Gilliam R. Overing, eds. Teaching Writing: > Pedagogy, > Gender, > and Equity. New York: State U of New York P, 1986. > > Dawson, Paul. "Towards a New Poetics in Creative Writing Pedagogy." Text > 7 > (2001) > http://www.griffith.edu.au/school/art/text/april03/dawson.htm > > Dvorak, Kevin. "Creative Writing Workshops for ESL Writers." ESL > Writers: > A Guide > for Writing Center Tutors. Ed. Shanti Bruce and Ben Rafuth. Portsmouth, > NH: > Boynton/Cook, 2004. > > Ede, Lisa S. and Andrea Lunsford. Singular Texts/Plural Authors: > Perspectives on > Collaborative Writing. Carbondale, IL: Southern Illinois UP, 1990. > > Edmundson, Mark. Why Read. New York: Bloomsbury, 2004. > > Fenza, D.W. "Creative Writing & Its Discontents." The Writer's > Chronicle. > 2000 > http://www.awpwriter.org/magazine/writers/fenza01.htm > > Forster, E.M. Aspects of the Novel. Orlando: Harcourt, 1927. > > Freire, Paolo. Pedagogy of the Oppressed. New York: Seabury Press, 1971. > > Green, Chris. "Materializing the Sublime Reader: Cultural Studies, > Reader > Response, > and Community Service in the Creative Writing Workshop." College English > 64.2 (2001): 153-74. > > Haake, Katharine. What Our Speech Disrupts: Feminism and Creative > Writing > Studies. > Urbana: National Council of Teachers of English, 2000. > > hooks, bell. Teaching to Transgress: Education as the Practice of > Freedom. New > York: Routledge, 1994. > > Kinneavy, James. "A Pluralistic Synthesis of Four Contemporary Models for > Teaching > Composition." > > Lim, Shirley. "The Strangeness of Creative Writing: An Institutional > Query." > Pedagogy 3 (2003): 151-169. > > Lindler, Vicki. "The Tale of Two Bethanies: Trauma in the Creative > Writing > Class." > New Writing: The International Journal for the Practice and Theory of > Creative. 1 (2004): 6-14. > > MacFarland, Ron. "An Apologia for Creative Writing." College English 55 > (1993): 28- > 45. > > Miles,Robert. "CreativeWriting, Contemporary Theoiry and the English > Curriculum." > Teaching Creative Writing: Theory and Practice. Ed. Moira Monteith and > Robert Miles. Buckingham: Open University Press, 1992. 34-44. > > Misson, Ray. "What are we Creating in Creative Writing?" Keynote > Address. > > AATE/ALEA Joint National Conference. Hobart: July, 2001. > > Moxley, Joseph, ed. Creative Writing in America: Theory and Pedagogy. > Urbana: > National Council of Teachers of English, 1989. > > Orr, Gregory. Richer Entanglements: Essays and Notes on Poetry and > Poems. > Ann > Arbor: University of Michigan Press, 1993. > > Orr, Gregory and Ellen Voigt, Eds. Poets Teaching Poets. Ann Arbor: > University of > Michigan Press, 1996. > > Perloff, Marjorie. "Theory and/in the Creative Writing Classroom." AWP > Newsletter > (November/December 1987). > > Tompkins, Jane. Life In School: What the Teacher Learned. Reading, > Mass: > Addison > Wesley, 1996. > > Vanderslice, Stephanie. "The Power to Choose: The Case for the > Concept-based > Multigenre Creative Writing Course." New Writing: The International > Journal for the Practice and Theory of Creative. 1 (2004):15-21. > > History > Aldridge, John W. Talents and Technicians: Literary Chic and the New > Assembly Line > Fiction. New York: Charles Scriber's Sons, 1992. > > Aristotle. "Poetics." The Complete Works of Aristotle. The revised Oxford > translation. > Vol 2. Ed. Jonathan Barnes. Bollingen Series LXXI. Princeton: Princeton > UP, > 1984. 2316-40. > > Aristotle. "The Rhetoric." The Complete Works of Aristotle. The revised > Oxford > translation. Vol 2. Ed. Jonathan Barnes. Bollingen Series LXXI. Princeton: > Princeton UP, 1984. > > Brodkey, Linda. "Modernism and the Scene(s) of Writing." College English > 49.4 (April > 1987): 396-418. > > Emerson, Ralph Waldo. "The Poet." > > Graff, Gerald. Professing Literature: An Institutional History. > University of Chicago > Press, 1990. > > Koethe, John. "Contrary Impulses: The Tension Between Poetry and Theory." > Critical > Inquiry 18 (1991) 64-75. > > Mallarme. "The Evolution of Literature." > > Myers, D.G. The Elephants Teach: Creative Writing Since 1880. Englewood > Cliffs: > Prentice Hall, 1995. > > Nietzche, F.. "The Birth of Tragedy." > > Radavich, David. "Creative Writing in the Academy." Profession 1999. > 106-112. > > Shelley, Percy Blythe. "A Defense of Poetry." > > Stitt, Peter. "Writers, Theorists, and the Department of English." AWP > Newsletter > (September/October 1987). > > Tate, Allen. "'We Read as Writers: The Creative Arts Program and How it > is > Helping > Freshman Would-Be Authors." Princeton Alumni Weekly 40 (1940): 505-6. > > Process > Bernstein, Charles. "Revenge of the Poet-Critic, or The Parts are Greater > than the Sum of > the Whole." My Way: Speeches and Poems. Chicago: Chicago UP, 1999. > 3-17. > > Cixous. Helene. Three Steps on the Ladder of Writing. Columbia > University > Press, > 1994. > > Eliot, T.S. "Tradition and the Individual Talent." The Sacred Wood: > Essays on Poetry > and Criticism. Toronto: Metheun Publications, 1922 > > Gardner, John. The Art of Fiction. New York: Vintage Books, 1983. > > Huddle, Richard. "What you Get for Good Writing." A David Huddle Reader. > Hanover: > University Press of New England, 1994. 28-38. > > Hugo, Richard. Triggering Town. London: W.W. Norton & Company, 1979. > > Kristeva, Julia. Revolution in Poetic Language. Trans. Margaret Waller. > New York: > Columbia UP, 1984. > > Kundera, Milan. The Art of the Novel. Trans. Linda Asher. Grove Press, > 1988 > > Lamott, Anne. Bird by Bird: Some Instructions on Writing and Life. New > York: Anchor > Books, 1995. > > Minot, Stephen. Three Genres: The Writing of Poetry, Fiction, and Drama. > Engelwood > Cliffs: Prentice Hall, 1997. > > O'Connor, Flannery. Mystery and Manners. New York: Noonday Press, 1957. > > Rilke, Rainer Maria. Letters to a Young Poet. Trans. Stephen Mitchell. > New > York: > Vintage Books, 1984. > > Stafford, William. Writing the Australian Crawl: Views on the Writer's > Vocation. > University of Michigan Press, 1974. > > Interdisciplinary Studies > Berman, Jeffrey. Diaries to an English Professor: Pain and Growth in the > Classroom. > Amherst: The University of Massachusetts Press, 1994. > > Deleuze, Gilles and Felix Guattari. "What Is a Minor > Literature?" Falling > Into Theory. > Ed. David Richter. New York: St Martin's, 2000. 167-174. > > Florida, Richard. The Rise of the Creative Class. New York: Basic > Books, > 2002. > > Gioia, Dana. "Can Poetry Matter?" The Atlantic Monthly. May 1991. > > Graff, Gerald. Beyond the Culture Wars. New York: Norton, 1993. > > Hall, Donald. "Death to the Death of Poetry." www.poets/org. > > Lefevre, Karen. Invention as a Social Act. Carbondale: SUI Press, 1987 > > Lindauer, Martin. Creativity Research Journal: Special Issue : > Interdisciplinarity, the > Psychology of Art, and Creativity. New Jersey: Lea, 1998. > > Journals, etc. > -AWP > -New Writings > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 20:50:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Hoerman Subject: Bob MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Published a poem by Bob about Elizabeth in August 1997, a haiku with unsentimental lines about a cab ride to city hall to marry Liz. Bob, my condolences to you and yours. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 18:55:35 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dillon Westbrook Subject: Re: sad to annoucne the passing of max roach this morning In-Reply-To: <20070816.143513.168.23.skyplums@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I always seem to get the good and the bad news first from poetics list. There goes a grand master, long may he live. There's great footage of Max playing in several phases of his career here: http://www.drummerworld.com/drummers/Max_Roach.html which I will probably cry watching again right now... On Aug 16, 2007, at 11:35 AM, steve d. dalachinsky wrote: > he was 83 > > > > how come i am not getting any poetics messages are there not any? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 19:35:53 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: "Tings Dey Happen " New Niger Delta Oil Play Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable If you are in New York City, traveling or have friends there, I want to urge/encourage folks to see, Things Dey Happen, Daniel Hoyle's one person performance piece that explores the characters, craziness and politics of Oil in Nigeria's delta region. Hoyle - who lived in Port Harcourt and traveled extensively among the villages, the refineries and drilling sites = - is extraordinary in his capacity to mime and enact the voices of Nigerian rebels, villagers, oil rig workers, Refinery community relation liaisons, and U.S Embassy reps. The piece can be hilarious, but the vision way dark, gratefully with heart. Things Dey Happen ran for six months to full houses here at The Marsh in Sa= n Francisco. =20 The good NY Times Review is here. > http://theater2.nytimes.com/2007/08/10/theater/reviews/10ting.html?ref=3Dth= eat At The Culture Project - I am sure the reservation details can be found on the web. Stephen V http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ Recent entries:=20 Oak Haptic - Ashland, Oregon Mom - =B3Everything is broken=B2 You can buy a Frida Kahlo Skateboard! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 22:13:33 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Disarming the teaching of history in Israel and Palestine MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit As some of you may recall, vispo.com hosts the Web site of PRIME, the Peace Research Institute in the Middle East. PRIME is mainly run by Dan Bar-On, an Israeli scholar, and Sammi Adwan, a Palestinian scholar. There are two new documents on the Web site you may find of interest. LEARNING EACH OTHER'S HISTORICAL NARRATIVE http://vispo.com/PRIME/leohn1.pdf This is a preliminary translation into English of a document developed by Israeli and Palestinian High school teachers that presents to grade 9 and 10 students in Israel and Palestine something of the historical narrative of the 'other side'. This project is an attempt to "disarm the teaching of history". There are articles about this project at http://vispo.com/PRIME/patience.htm (a copy of a USA Today article) and at http://vispo.com/PRIME/herzog.htm (a copy of an article from the Globe and Mail). This PRIME project was awarded the inaugual Goldberg IIE prize for peace-building in the middle east (see http://vispo.com/PRIME/goldbergprize.htm ). THE PRIME SHARED HISTORY PROJECT Peace-Building Project Under Fire http://vispo.com/PRIME/iram192.pdf This is an article by Dan Bar-On and Sami Adwan concerning the background and some of the research concerning the 'Learning Each Other's Historical Narrative' project. ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 02:31:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: crystal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed crystal http://www.asondheim.org/cradio1.mp3 http://www.asondheim.org/cradio1noiseplus.mp3 http://www.asondheim.org/cradio1noiseminus.mp3 http://www.asondheim.org/cradio4hissplus.mp3 http://www.asondheim.org/cradio4hissminus.mp3 http://www.asondheim.org/cradio2mov.mp3 http://www.asondheim.org/cradio3hissminus.mp3 http://www.asondheim.org/cradio3hissplus.mp3 http://www.asondheim.org/cradiodirecthissminus.mp3 cradio1 = crystal radio reception normal; noise only; signal only cradio2 = manipulated signal bringing out subtextuals cradio3 = hiss only; signal only cradio4 = signal only; hiss only cradiodirect = signal only recorded from 1912+ loose coupler in combination with parallel diodes and variocoupler (in series with ground): the loose coupler has connections only to the primary - the secondary is passive/tuning. the variocoupler (two spherical coils, one within another) tunes by revolving the inner coil. the antenna is a dipole, one length around 20', the other 100+' after passing through a coil. the variocoupler and long antenna are from 1920+/1. the diodes are modern (the crystal is problematic). there are no capacitors/condensers or resistors. the output goes to a low impedance active speaker set with all but the cradiodirect; the recording is through the speakers using an olympus voice recorder (which easily covers the audio frequency of the radio). the direct connection results in hum for the most part. the usual connection for the radio is a pair of 1918 high impedance western electric earphone, but these proved inadequate for recording. the signals were processed in Cool Edit Pro, using hiss and noise reduc- tion as well as amplitude normalization and hard limiting. the recording was done around 12:30 a.m. here in brooklyn. i searched for station pile- ups as well as 'gaps' between signals which were then amplified. the radio had broad tuning - the five coils tuned broadly but surprisingly well. i'm now waiting for a very large coil to see if vlf or anomalous signals may be received; i'm also looking forward to recording lightning and other sounds during thunderstorms. in its current configuration the radio pulls in around 20 stations all over the a.m. band; there are hints of low frequency beacons, but nothing certain. tuning is done with a variety of methods in combination - the primary coil of the loose coupler has a single slider; the secondary coil move within the primary coil; the variocoupler rotor can be turned; and the vario- coupler, large antenna coil, and loose coupler can all be moved in rela- tion to each other. if the secondary coil is directly connected, it can be tapped at various points. only the slider changes stations 'drastically' the variocoupler and sliding secondary loosely isolate stations. unlike a modern radio with a single 'action,' this radio (and other sets) require a skein-like approach to tuning; everything modifies everything else, and everything is brought into resonance by sliding, stepping, rotating, and so forth. theoretically, i want to explore notions of 'tending' equipment, adjusting and re-adjusting, as well as thinking of this kind of technology as rela- ted in a different way to earth (not only to grounding, but to notions of soil, geology - there's something of heidegger in the background). they are raw agents of 'earth-fields,' free atmospheric energy, world-static. at one point, years ago, i wrote about the 'spectral mother' of short-wave listening; the idea applies here as well - one listens to universal chora. the recordings are hopefully sufficiently different to be of interest. the subtextuals (for lack of a better word) are difficult to hear but fascinating; some are clearly from 60 hz power grid stuff, but there are others, which i hope to somehow amplify in the future, that seems unusual. and then there's tapping the energy, running leds, future-cars and rumors as lightning conductors... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 08:48:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Solved: The mystery of the 'Poe toaster' Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed Solved: The mystery of the 'Poe toaster' Aging historian claims to have created legend of the shadowy grave =20 visitor WILEY HALL Associated Press August 16, 2007 at 5:09 AM EDT http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070816.wpoe16/=20 BNStory/Entertainment/home BALTIMORE =97 The legend was almost too good to be true. For decades, a mysterious figure dressed in black, his features =20 cloaked by a wide-brimmed hat and scarf, crept into a Baltimore =20 churchyard to lay three roses and a bottle of cognac at the grave of =20 Edgar Allan Poe. Now, a man in his 90s who led the fight to preserve the historic site =20= says the visitor was his creation. "We did it, myself and my tour guides," said Sam Porpora. "It was a =20 promotional idea. We made it up, never dreaming it would go worldwide." Mr. Porpora is an energetic, dapper fellow in a newsboy cap and a =20 checked suit with a bolo tie. He's got a twinkle in his eye and a =20 mischievous smile, and he tells his tale in the rhythms of a natural-=20 born storyteller. No one has ever claimed ownership of the legend. So why is he coming =20 forward now? "I really can't tell you," he said. "I'm doing it because of my love =20 for the story." Mr. Porpora's belief that he resurrected the international fame of =20 Poe, that master of mystery and melancholia, is questioned by some =20 Poe scholars. But they do credit Mr. Porpora, a former advertising =20 executive, with rescuing the cemetery at the former Westminster =20 Presbyterian Church, now called Westminster Hall, where the writer is =20= buried. "I don't know what to say," said Jeff Jerome, curator of the nearby =20 Poe House, who has nurtured for years the legend of the so-called Poe =20= Toaster. Confronted with Mr. Porpora's assertion that the whole thing =20= is a hoax, Mr. Jerome reacted like a man who's been punched in the =20 stomach by his beloved grandfather. He's sad. He feels betrayed. But =20 he's reluctant to punch back. "To say the toaster is a promotional =20 hoax, well, all I can say is that's just not so." Could it be, to quote Poe, that "all that we see or seem is but a =20 dream within a dream?" Mr. Porpora's story begins in the late 1960s. He'd just been made =20 historian of the church, built in 1852 at Fayette and Greene Streets. =20= There were fewer than 60 congregants and Mr. Porpora, in his 60s, was =20= one of the youngest. The overgrown cemetery was a favourite of =20 drunken derelicts. The site needed money and publicity, Mr. Porpora recalled. That, he =20 said, is when the idea of the Poe toaster came to him. The story, as =20 Mr. Porpora told it to a local reporter then, was that the tribute =20 had been laid at the grave on Poe's Jan. 19 birthday every year since =20= 1949. Three roses - one for Poe, one for his wife and one for his =20 mother-in-law - and a bottle of cognac were placed there, because Poe =20= loved the stuff even though he couldn't afford to drink it unless =20 someone else was buying. The romantic image of the mysterious man in black caught the fancy of =20= Poe fans and a tradition grew. Poe wrote such horror classics as The =20 Fall of the House of Usher, The Pit and the Pendulum, The Masque of =20 the Red Death and The Raven. In about 1977, Mr. Jerome began inviting a handful of people each =20 year to a vigil for the mysterious stranger. The media began =20 chronicling the arrivals and departures of a "Poe-like figure." In =20 1990, Life magazine published a picture of the shrouded individual. =20 In 1993, he left a note saying "the torch would be passed." Another =20 note in 1998 announced that the originator of the tradition had died. =20= Later vigil-keepers reported that at least two toasters appeared to =20 have taken up the torch in different years. Members of the E. A. Poe Society insist they recall members of the =20 old congregation - all now dead - talking about the Poe toaster =20 before Mr. Porpora says he made it up. Stories since the 1970s refer =20 to older newspaper accounts about the visitor. Mr. Jerome found a =20 1950 newspaper clipping that mentions "an anonymous citizen who =20 creeps in annually to place an empty bottle (of excellent label)" =20 against the gravestone. Mr. Porpora's account isn't consistent. He said in an interview with =20 a reporter in 1967 that he invented the stranger, but the story to =20 which he refers appeared in 1976. Shortly afterward, the vigils and =20 the yearly chronicles of the stranger's visits began. During the same =20= interview, Mr. Porpora said both that he made the story up and that =20 one of his tour guides went through a pantomime of dressing up, =20 sneaking into the cemetery and laying the tribute on the grave. Mr. Porpora acknowledges that someone has since "become" the Poe =20 toaster. Mr. Jerome said the vigils wil ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 07:48:51 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Betsy Andrews Subject: seeking apartment in Philly MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hey, poets. My girlfriend Jeanne Baron is moving to Philly from Portland, ME to produce a radio show called Justice Talking. She'll be in Philly 4 nights a week. She's looking for a share, sublet, her own lease, whatever somewhere in the city. Any leads? Good realtors? Friends who need great roommate? Please backchannel me. Thanks much, Betsy --------------------------------- Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 08:21:45 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jennifer Karmin Subject: 8/22: Danny's Reading Series 6th anniversary MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The Danny's Reading Series 6th Anniversary Wednesday, August 22nd 7:30PM with Robyn Schiff Mark Tardi Chuck Stebelton Jennifer Karmin Danny's Tavern is located at 1951 W. Dickens, Chicago, IL free admission, 21+, please bring ID The Danny's Reading Series Celebrates its sixth anniversary by featuring four poets recently published in The City Visible: Chicago Poetry for the New Century. This new anthology, published by local press Cracked Slab Books, brings together a sampling of some of the best poets working in Chicago and the surrounding region. The press was founded by poets William Allegrezza and Raymond Bianchi to provide an outlet for experimental poetry and poetics in its various forms. Books will be for sale at the event. http://crackedslabbooks.com Robyn Schiff's first book, Worth, was published by the University of Iowa Press, Kuhl House Poets series and her second collection is forthcoming in the fall of 2008 from the same press. She lives in Chicago with her husband the poet Nick Twemlow, and is a visiting assistant professor of English at Northwestern University. Robyn is editor-at-large of the The Canary, and is also an editor of the new press Canarium Books, which will release its first titles in 2008. Mark Tardi is from Chicago, and grew up a scant mile from Midway Airport. His first book, Euclid Shudders, was a finalist for the National Poetry Series and was published by Litmus Press. He has served as an editor at Dalkey Archive Press, and currently is on the editorial board of the literary journal Aufgabe. Chuck Stebelton is the author of Flags and Banners (Bronze Skull, 2007); Precious, an Answer Tag chapbook; and Circulation Flowers (Tougher Disguises, 2005). He works as Literary Program Manager at Woodland Pattern Book Center, a non-profit arts organization in Milwaukee. Jennifer Karmin is a poet, artist, and educator who has experimented with language throughout the U.S. and Japan. She curates the Red Rover Series with fiction writer Amina Cain and is a founding member of the public art group Anti Gravity Surprise. Her multidisciplinary projects have been presented at a number of festivals, artist-run spaces, community centers, and on city streets. Jennifer teaches creative writing to immigrants at Truman College and works as a Poet in-Residence for the Chicago Public Schools. During 2007-08, she will be a guest writer in Kenya with the Summer Literary Seminars and in California with the Djerassi Program. Recent publications include MoonLit, Bird Dog, Milk Magazine, and Growing Up Girl: An Anthology of Voices from Marginalized Spaces. Upcoming readings: http://www.noslander.com/dannys.html *September 19th 7:30PM Joyelle McSweeney (author of The Commandrine and Other Poems and The Red Bird, both from Fence, as well as Nylund, the Sarcographer, a baroque noir novella forthcoming from Tarpaulin Sky Press in Fall 2007, and Flet, a sci-fi novel slated for release by Fence in 2008.) plus Johannes Göransson (Action Books) and Greg Purcell (original Danny's founder & co-host!) *October 10th 7:30PM Danielle Dutton (Attempts at Life) Deb Olin Unferth (Minor Robberies) ____________________________________________________________________________________ Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool. http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 11:37:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "j. kuszai" Subject: ...tor'cha... a novel by Todd Craig, new from Factory School Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed ...tor'cha... a novel by Todd Craig PS3577 Factory School, 2007 5.5 x 7.5, 184 Pages ISBN: 978-1-60001-985-2 MSRP: $18.00 (available in September from SPD) Direct from Factory School: $14.00 ORDER DIRECT FROM FACTORY SCHOOL THROUGH LABOR DAY FOR $10 incl. =20 shipping. For more information, please write to me directly. ABOUT ...tor'cha... Set in the streets of New York City, ...tor=92cha... follows three =20 brothers as they try to live according to irreconcilable secular and =20 spiritual dictates. Emil (eM), a stick-up kid turned musician; Damon, =20= an incarcerated felon turned Muslim as Abdullah Zahir; and Christian, =20= the brother who escaped the streets through education=97all face =20 personal and psychic conflicts as they try to resolve the code of the =20= streets, the Ten Commandments, and Supreme Mathematics. =93Todd Craig=92s writing can hold more weight than the mighty 59th St. =20= Bridge during rush hour. He is a combo of Zora Neale Hurston and Bonz =20= Malone. A classic New York slice of pizza, hold the swine=85=94 =97 = Bobbito =20 Garcia, author of Where=92d You Get Those? New York City=92s Sneaker =20 Culture: 1960-1987 =93Todd Craig=92s =85tor=92cha=85 is a book that compels his readers to = think =20 of scriptural commands with hip hop flavor and Supreme Mathematics as =20= it=92s applied to one=92s life in relationship to the grand scheme of = the =20 universe. =85tor=92cha=85 will get=92cha to think about Supreme = Mathematics =20 and Knowledge add a Cipher=97the Ten Commandments=97that brought=92cha = into =20 existence to righteously rule the universe!" =97 Allah B, The renowned =20= Elder of the Nation of Gods & Earths and Executive Director of Allah =20 School in Mecca =93=46rom the Ten Commandments through Supreme Mathematics, Todd Craig =20= weaves a head-spinning tale that captures New York=97its intoxicating =20= highs as well as its gritty lows=97with an unblinking eye.=94 =97 HS =20 Miller, Writer and Director of Anamorph =93Todd Craig takes readers deep into the darkness in order to show us =20= the light. Written in a street-smart style, this book should be =20 required reading for anyone taken in by the glamorization of the =20 gangsta culture.=94 =97 Geoffrey Canada, President and CEO of Harlem =20 Children=92s Zone ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 10:38:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Skip Fox Subject: Re: creative writing praxis In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70708161630q17f42830r6bd4d4df9e33d0b6@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anyone who would like the bibliography in a Word file attachment so that you can easily use the file (with underlines and correct hard returns), please send your e-mail address to me and I'll send it (with the asterisks indicating McGuire's recommendations). skip@louisiana.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 11:50:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "j. kuszai" Subject: The Thirdest World, revised and expanded edition, new from Factory School Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed The Thirdest World Stories and essays by three Filipino writers Gina Apostol, Eric Gamalinda, and Lara Stapleton Edited by Lara Stapleton with an Introduction by Elaine H. Kim PS3577 Factory School, 2007 5.5 x 7.5, 150 pages ISBN: 978-1-60001-987-6 MSRP: $15.00 (available through SPD) Direct from Factory School: $12.00 Order direct from Factory School through Labor Day for $10.00 =20 including shipping. Please write us directly for more information. About THE THIRDEST WORLD: The Thirdest World includes the work of Gina Apostol, Eric Gamalinda, =20= and Lara Stapleton, winners of the Philippine National Book Award, =20 the Philippine Centennial Literary Prize, and the Pen Open Book =20 Award, respectively. The three writers, from three greatly varied =20 perspectives, take a look at the histories of struggle, travel and =20 loss inherent to the colonial experience. Two works of fiction are =20 included by each author, along with an essay that discusses the =20 relationship between identity and narrative in each writer=92s work. =20 All three writers see a profound relationship between postmodern =20 structures and the disjointed history of a twice-colonized country: =20 the Philippines changed hands from Spain to the United States in =20 1898. Passionate, intricate, witty, subtle, wise and wildly fresh and =20= new, The Thirdest World will give readers fascinating trips over the =20 Pacific and into novel worlds of creativity. =93These stories chart the strained divide between loyalty and =20 identity: the tough blossoms that flower in the shadow of the =20 American tree. The Thirdest World is an important book, not only for =20 its prescient chronicling of postcolonial Filipinos, but also for its =20= hic et nunc observations of Filipino identities. Apostol, Gamalinda, =20 and Stapleton are three writers who deserve an international =20 audience.=94 -- Sabina Murray, author of Forgery and The Caprices "Reading The Thirdest World had me contemplating once again just how =20 far we=92ve come from the (necessary) cultural nationalisms in the =20 Asian American movement of the 1970s to the feminist and queer of =20 color=92s interventions of the 1980s to the embrace of mestizaje and =20 borderlands theory in the 1990s to the liberatory irreverence and =20 playfulness of today, which I can only believe is made possible by =20 the resilient confidence that comes with being comfortable with and =20 accepting the recent and distant past." -- Elaine H. Kim, from the =20 Introduction ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 11:57:12 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "j. kuszai" Subject: The Big Melt, new from Factory School Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed The Big Melt by President of the United Hearts PS3577 Factory School, 2007 5.5 x 7.5, 76 pages ISBN: 978-1-60001-988-3 MSRP: $14.00 Direct from Factory School: $12.00 Order direct through Labor Day for $10.00 including shipping. Write =20 for more information. About THE BIG MELT: The demise of American democracy accompanied by the militarized =20 ascent of Americanization is a big drag for everyone. The Big Melt =20 maps both in the spectacle of the 2004 US presidential election. The =20 unmitigated travesties buttressing the deep structure of the Bush-=20 Cheney regime are illuminated with great zeal. The proletariat=92s =20 fight against crime is on. =93Touchdown POEMS are BARGAINS Sit up and listen IDIOT, if =20 you can bear it.=94 -- Hannah Weiner =93The only writers brave enough to face the bloodthirsty crowd which =20= has made the name of America a stench in the nostrils of decent men.=94 =20= -- Studs Terkel =93President of the United Hearts has always pushed me over the cliff.=94 = =20 -- bell hooks =93The Big Melt, with a wit that is certainly a model for all =20 composition, contains a handful of poems that are weak not only in =20 structure but in diction that gives real beauty to poetry. Let us =20 condemn these poems therefore, by saying that the President=92s soft =20 head is no match for the razor sharp blade of its heart.=94 -- H=E9l=E8ne= =20 Cixous =93This is the anti-war poem I=92ve been waiting for!=94 -- Yul Brynner =93An election dispatch, The Big Melt is the wildest mix of =20 unadulterated expressionism and analysis I=92ve encountered. Its =20 message is a beacon of hope in an exceedingly dark time.=94 -- Michael =20= Moore =93As usual a superb book.=94 -- Ed Dorn ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 11:09:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: CA Conrad Subject: Re: Dear Buffalo List, a message from Rosemary Ceravolo on her husband Jospeh Ceravolo's "Fits of Dawn" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Amy and others who have the same question, it's come up quite a bit that Rosemary Ceravolo doesn't allow the work to circulate. I have friends (and I'm not going to say who so don't ask) who have tried to use some of his work for various reasons, and it's just impossible to do in most cases. It's like the poems are in a tightly sealed vault. So when the PDF started circulating I thought WOW, maybe the work is FINALLY coming back to us! (wrong) But your question is also if maybe his wife is fulfilling his wishes by keeping the work locked down. He wrote right up to his death. And published and published and published book after book. Do you really think it's possible that his last wish was that the MOMENT he died his work suddenly go into the basement and collect dust? Granted, maybe you're right. But it just doesn't make sense to me he would ever make such a request. For his short life he wrote a large body of work, and had an endless supply of poems in him it seemed. And he was NEVER shy about publishing. As much as I'm no a fan of the website devoted to his life's work, it's good some of the poems are there, but there are literally HUNDREDS of more poems beyond the website. The GREAT news is that he kept publishing while he was alive, meaning that the work is out there. We can get to it with no one's permission! The interlibrary loan department here in my neighborhood was able to order every single one of his books with no problems. We do NOT have to live a Ceravolo-deprived life, CAConrad http://PhillySound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 10:28:26 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: Solved: The mystery of the 'Poe toaster' In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit There was a Renaissance or Baroque Italian composer named Nicola Porpora. Was he any relation? Are we speaking of ghosts here? Sounds like the beginning of a Poe-like story here. mIEKAL aND wrote: Solved: The mystery of the 'Poe toaster' Aging historian claims to have created legend of the shadowy grave visitor WILEY HALL Associated Press August 16, 2007 at 5:09 AM EDT http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070816.wpoe16/ BNStory/Entertainment/home BALTIMORE — The legend was almost too good to be true. For decades, a mysterious figure dressed in black, his features cloaked by a wide-brimmed hat and scarf, crept into a Baltimore churchyard to lay three roses and a bottle of cognac at the grave of Edgar Allan Poe. Now, a man in his 90s who led the fight to preserve the historic site says the visitor was his creation. "We did it, myself and my tour guides," said Sam Porpora. "It was a promotional idea. We made it up, never dreaming it would go worldwide." Mr. Porpora is an energetic, dapper fellow in a newsboy cap and a checked suit with a bolo tie. He's got a twinkle in his eye and a mischievous smile, and he tells his tale in the rhythms of a natural- born storyteller. No one has ever claimed ownership of the legend. So why is he coming forward now? "I really can't tell you," he said. "I'm doing it because of my love for the story." Mr. Porpora's belief that he resurrected the international fame of Poe, that master of mystery and melancholia, is questioned by some Poe scholars. But they do credit Mr. Porpora, a former advertising executive, with rescuing the cemetery at the former Westminster Presbyterian Church, now called Westminster Hall, where the writer is buried. "I don't know what to say," said Jeff Jerome, curator of the nearby Poe House, who has nurtured for years the legend of the so-called Poe Toaster. Confronted with Mr. Porpora's assertion that the whole thing is a hoax, Mr. Jerome reacted like a man who's been punched in the stomach by his beloved grandfather. He's sad. He feels betrayed. But he's reluctant to punch back. "To say the toaster is a promotional hoax, well, all I can say is that's just not so." Could it be, to quote Poe, that "all that we see or seem is but a dream within a dream?" Mr. Porpora's story begins in the late 1960s. He'd just been made historian of the church, built in 1852 at Fayette and Greene Streets. There were fewer than 60 congregants and Mr. Porpora, in his 60s, was one of the youngest. The overgrown cemetery was a favourite of drunken derelicts. The site needed money and publicity, Mr. Porpora recalled. That, he said, is when the idea of the Poe toaster came to him. The story, as Mr. Porpora told it to a local reporter then, was that the tribute had been laid at the grave on Poe's Jan. 19 birthday every year since 1949. Three roses - one for Poe, one for his wife and one for his mother-in-law - and a bottle of cognac were placed there, because Poe loved the stuff even though he couldn't afford to drink it unless someone else was buying. The romantic image of the mysterious man in black caught the fancy of Poe fans and a tradition grew. Poe wrote such horror classics as The Fall of the House of Usher, The Pit and the Pendulum, The Masque of the Red Death and The Raven. In about 1977, Mr. Jerome began inviting a handful of people each year to a vigil for the mysterious stranger. The media began chronicling the arrivals and departures of a "Poe-like figure." In 1990, Life magazine published a picture of the shrouded individual. In 1993, he left a note saying "the torch would be passed." Another note in 1998 announced that the originator of the tradition had died. Later vigil-keepers reported that at least two toasters appeared to have taken up the torch in different years. Members of the E. A. Poe Society insist they recall members of the old congregation - all now dead - talking about the Poe toaster before Mr. Porpora says he made it up. Stories since the 1970s refer to older newspaper accounts about the visitor. Mr. Jerome found a 1950 newspaper clipping that mentions "an anonymous citizen who creeps in annually to place an empty bottle (of excellent label)" against the gravestone. Mr. Porpora's account isn't consistent. He said in an interview with a reporter in 1967 that he invented the stranger, but the story to which he refers appeared in 1976. Shortly afterward, the vigils and the yearly chronicles of the stranger's visits began. During the same interview, Mr. Porpora said both that he made the story up and that one of his tour guides went through a pantomime of dressing up, sneaking into the cemetery and laying the tribute on the grave. Mr. Porpora acknowledges that someone has since "become" the Poe toaster. Mr. Jerome said the vigils wil --------------------------------- Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 11:28:42 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Cimino Subject: A question about Juan Ramon Jimenez MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Does anyone know where the following quote by Juan Ramon Jimenez comes from? "If they five you ruled paper, write the other way." I know it's often quoted, but I am trying to find its original source. Thank you. Alison ____________________________________________________________________________________ Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 12:19:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Re: Dear Buffalo List, a message from Rosemary Ceravolo on her husband Jospeh Ceravolo's "Fits of Dawn" In-Reply-To: <301026.70396.qm@web37910.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Like you, Craig, I too was excited about the pdf. I also know Joe died suddenly and unexpectedly. I don't think we're disagreeing on hoping to see more of his work in print. But I don't think we can presume to know what his wishes were for his work prior to his death, unless the trustees of his estate make his wishes public. Also, I can't imagine that any poet would want his widow to be the recipient of aggressive demands as she deals with his estate -- this observation is not synonymous with not wanting to see his work made more available. But good news, I have heard from a friend of his that the book is possibly slated for publication, and though said friend named a publisher, he's not certain, so I can't spread that rumor. Overall, I'm sure Joe would be glad to know that hundreds have been clamoring for his work, which will make the publication of the book so welcome. You're also right to point out that some of his work is currently available and not in a basement collecting dust, as presumed. Amy http://www.amyking.org/blog --------------------------------- Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 12:34:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: Dear Buffalo List, a message from Rosemary Ceravolo on her husband Jospeh Ceravolo's "Fits of Dawn" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed who didn't know it was a bootleg? On Thu, 16 Aug 2007, CA Conrad wrote: > I promised that I would make this as public as possible. That PDF file of > the Ceravolo chapbook "Fits of Dawn" as it turns out was made by someone who > did not have permission from Rosemary Ceravolo, who is the literary executor > to her late husband's work. > > She wrote me an angry e-mail after finding out about this PDF. > > She was convinced it was Joe Massey who had made the file, but I assured her > it was not, and that neither of us have any idea who made it. And this is > true, and my hope is that the person who DID make it finds out through this > post somehow and has the sense to take it off their server before she finds > them. The sooner the better, trust me on this one, she's not happy, and > she's not messing around! > > But she has, as you can imagine, asked us to no longer forward the PDF file > to those requesting it. And since I've still been getting about half a > dozen new requests each week since the initial FLOOD of requests, I've > decided to agree to make the message from her public. > > I'm very sad about this news. She wants us to refer to the website: > http://josephceravolo.com/ > No disrespect to those who made this site, but it's awful. > > But not as awful as living in a world of bookshelves empty of Ceravolo's > poems. It makes no sense. So many of us Love his poems. So very many of > us. What is all this protection about I wonder? > > I'm sad about this because the experience of the PDF file with the help of > Joe Massey has made it clear that there are HUNDREDS of us hungry poets! > It's been great being in touch with so many of you over the "Fits of Dawn" > PDF that none of us knew was, well, illegal. > > But I encourage EVERYONE to march your asses over to your local library and > ask the interlibrary loan department to order his books. You cannot, must > not, ever be deprived of this amazing poetry! > > LET'S HAVE THE CERAVOLO REVOLUTION ANYWAY! > Hey, is anyone interested in helping me getting about a hundred of us > together to sit on Rosemary Ceravolo's lawn and read his poems through a > bullhorn until she agrees to put out a collected? > > Suppose she doesn't have a lawn? We'll figure it out, don't worry. Life's > too fucking short to worry. But not so short we can't imagine doing > whatever we need to do to change things. > > With an exhilaration of Love for the poems that never feels depleted, > CAConrad > http://PhillySound.blogspot.com > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 12:58:33 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: Heirs, was Dear Buffalo List, a message from Rosemary Ceravolo on her husband Jospeh Ceravolo's "Fits of Dawn" In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20070816120135.019218d8@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed For what it's worth, i have every intention of leaving whatever poetry I leave behind, of whatever dubious value it is to anyone anywhere, and I doubt that it will mean much to anyone, in the public domain and I would encourage other poets to do the same. I have a hard time getting behind teh way our culture allows the work of dead artists to make more money for their heirs than they ever could have made for tht artists. it seems like a loophole in the estate tax. On Thu, 16 Aug 2007, Mark Weiss wrote: > She may be doing exactly as he wished. > > Let's broaden this a bit. I've dealt with a lot of descendants of poets. It's > sometimes not a pretty picture. Many do an excellent job. Others know nothing > about poetry or publishing and could care less, except, sometimes, about the > stray dime. I've had distant cousins ask for outrageous sums of money for use > of their relative's work, in effect making publication by anyone unlikely. The > heir of one Cuban poet I would have dearly liked to include in my anthology > asked for considerably more than the entire budget for the book. The nephew and > heir of one important South American poet (who had barely met the deceased) > when faced with a choice went for a small selected by a third-rate translator > because the publisher offered 12 %. That book fell off the shelves with almiost > no notice, but no one else can publish translations of thepoet for several > years. Junction Press, my imprint, had offered 10%, staying in print basically > forever, and a definitive, large collection with no restrictions as to other > translations. There are heirs who don't answer queries, and one at least, of an > important English-language Caribbean poet, who may or may not be sitting on a > pile of unpublished work, but she wouldn't know because of the heroin. > > The message is: don't leave this casual or by default. Write a will, appointing > as executor(s) someone you trust, and spell out what you want done with the > work and what the rights of the heirs are to be, presuming they're not the same > person/people.. Be sure to ask your proposed executor beforehand whether she/he > is willing to take on the job. Don't wait till you'r old to do this--one never > knows. > > And it doesn't hurt to have a lawyer look over the will and make suggestions. > This costs, but presumably the cost will be the least of the expenses poetry > has entailed for you. > > A related issue. What should an executor or heir do if the writer instructs > them (think Dickinson and Kafka) to destroy the work or suppress it forever? > There are legal implications, but the moral implications are I think more > important. I don't have an answer for this one. In the case of the overhyped > posthumous Bishop, she might have been wise to specify the manner of permitted > publication, say as a scholarly footnote rather than a collection of lost > treasures. The heirs would probably have made less money, though. > > Mark > > > At 11:39 AM 8/16/2007, you wrote: >> The fly in the ointment: >> >> How do you know that his widow isn't doing as Joe Ceravolo wished? >> >> I'm thinking of the latest case with Elizabeth Bishop's "Edgar Allan Poe & >> the Juke-Box". If a poet doesn't want his or her "posthumous" work >> published, must he or she burn everything? >> >> Is it okay to entrust original drafts et al to a friend or widow with >> specific instructions and hope for the best? >> >> >> I just took a cursory look at the website; she seems to be making plans to >> show some of the unpublished work (as well as create a better site), so >> maybe camping on her lawn is not so urgent? Did she mention a projected >> date to you for these happenings? >> >> "Exciting new plans are in progress for the new >> official home on the Web of Joseph Ceravolo's Poetry. Audio recordings >> of his readings and never before published poems will be made available >> to the public in the near future. Check back often as the Web site will >> be experiencing a complete redesign very soon." >> >> >> Best, >> Amy >> >> http://www.amyking.org/blog >> >> >> >> Thu, 16 Aug 2007 09:25:07 -0500 >> UB Poetics discussion group >> From: CA Conrad >> Subject: Dear Buffalo List,a message from Rosemary Ceravolo on her husband >> Jospeh Ceravolo's "Fits of Dawn" >> >> I promised that I would make this as public as possible. That PDF file of >> the Ceravolo chapbook "Fits of Dawn" as it turns out was made by someone who >> did not have permission from Rosemary Ceravolo, who is the literary executor >> to her late husband's work. >> >> She wrote me an angry e-mail after finding out about this PDF. >> >> She was convinced it was Joe Massey who had made the file, but I assured her >> it was not, and that neither of us have any idea who made it. And this is >> true, and my hope is that the person who DID make it finds out through this >> post somehow and has the sense to take it off their server before she finds >> them. The sooner the better, trust me on this one, she's not happy, and >> she's not messing around! >> >> But she has, as you can imagine, asked us to no longer forward the PDF file >> to those requesting it. And since I've still been getting about half a >> dozen new requests each week since the initial FLOOD of requests, I've >> decided to agree to make the message from her public. >> >> I'm very sad about this news. She wants us to refer to the website: >> http://josephceravolo.com/ >> No disrespect to those who made this site, but it's awful. >> >> But not as awful as living in a world of bookshelves empty of Ceravolo's >> poems. It makes no sense. So many of us Love his poems. So very many of >> us. What is all this protection about I wonder? >> >> I'm sad about this because the experience of the PDF file with the help of >> Joe Massey has made it clear that there are HUNDREDS of us hungry poets! >> It's been great being in touch with so many of you over the "Fits of Dawn" >> PDF that none of us knew was, well, illegal. >> >> But I encourage EVERYONE to march your asses over to your local library and >> ask the interlibrary loan department to order his books. You cannot, must >> not, ever be deprived of this amazing poetry! >> >> LET'S HAVE THE CERAVOLO REVOLUTION ANYWAY! >> Hey, is anyone interested in helping me getting about a hundred of us >> together to sit on Rosemary Ceravolo's lawn and read his poems through a >> bullhorn until she agrees to put out a collected? >> >> Suppose she doesn't have a lawn? We'll figure it out, don't worry. Life's >> too fucking short to worry. But not so short we can't imagine doing >> whatever we need to do to change things. >> >> With an exhilaration of Love for the poems that never feels depleted, >> CAConrad >> http://PhillySound.blogspot.com >> >> >> >> --------------------------------- >> Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 13:54:07 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: This Weekend, Enjoy ... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MiPOesias presents ** Interview with Franz WRIGHT ** Poems by Cynthia SAILERS Besty WHEELER Dana WARD Mark BIBBINS Campbell MCGRATH Keith and Rosmarie WALDROP ** Review of Annie FINCH ** Profile of Mather LOUTH http://www.mipoesias.com/September2007/ Enjoy! MiPOesias http://www.mipoesias.com/ http://www.mipoesias.com/ http://www.mipoesias.com/ --------------------------------- Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 13:46:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Amish Trivedi Subject: Re: Heirs, was Dear Buffalo List, a message from Rosemary Ceravolo on her husband Jospeh Ceravolo's "Fits of Dawn" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I am poised and ready for The Lost Quackenbush poems! That's assuming I outlive you. If I do outlive you, can I edit them? :) Amish Jason Quackenbush wrote: For what it's worth, i have every intention of leaving whatever poetry I leave behind, of whatever dubious value it is to anyone anywhere, and I doubt that it will mean much to anyone, in the public domain and I would encourage other poets to do the same. I have a hard time getting behind teh way our culture allows the work of dead artists to make more money for their heirs than they ever could have made for tht artists. it seems like a loophole in the estate tax. On Thu, 16 Aug 2007, Mark Weiss wrote: > She may be doing exactly as he wished. > > Let's broaden this a bit. I've dealt with a lot of descendants of poets. It's > sometimes not a pretty picture. Many do an excellent job. Others know nothing > about poetry or publishing and could care less, except, sometimes, about the > stray dime. I've had distant cousins ask for outrageous sums of money for use > of their relative's work, in effect making publication by anyone unlikely. The > heir of one Cuban poet I would have dearly liked to include in my anthology > asked for considerably more than the entire budget for the book. The nephew and > heir of one important South American poet (who had barely met the deceased) > when faced with a choice went for a small selected by a third-rate translator > because the publisher offered 12 %. That book fell off the shelves with almiost > no notice, but no one else can publish translations of thepoet for several > years. Junction Press, my imprint, had offered 10%, staying in print basically > forever, and a definitive, large collection with no restrictions as to other > translations. There are heirs who don't answer queries, and one at least, of an > important English-language Caribbean poet, who may or may not be sitting on a > pile of unpublished work, but she wouldn't know because of the heroin. > > The message is: don't leave this casual or by default. Write a will, appointing > as executor(s) someone you trust, and spell out what you want done with the > work and what the rights of the heirs are to be, presuming they're not the same > person/people.. Be sure to ask your proposed executor beforehand whether she/he > is willing to take on the job. Don't wait till you'r old to do this--one never > knows. > > And it doesn't hurt to have a lawyer look over the will and make suggestions. > This costs, but presumably the cost will be the least of the expenses poetry > has entailed for you. > > A related issue. What should an executor or heir do if the writer instructs > them (think Dickinson and Kafka) to destroy the work or suppress it forever? > There are legal implications, but the moral implications are I think more > important. I don't have an answer for this one. In the case of the overhyped > posthumous Bishop, she might have been wise to specify the manner of permitted > publication, say as a scholarly footnote rather than a collection of lost > treasures. The heirs would probably have made less money, though. > > Mark > > > At 11:39 AM 8/16/2007, you wrote: >> The fly in the ointment: >> >> How do you know that his widow isn't doing as Joe Ceravolo wished? >> >> I'm thinking of the latest case with Elizabeth Bishop's "Edgar Allan Poe & >> the Juke-Box". If a poet doesn't want his or her "posthumous" work >> published, must he or she burn everything? >> >> Is it okay to entrust original drafts et al to a friend or widow with >> specific instructions and hope for the best? >> >> >> I just took a cursory look at the website; she seems to be making plans to >> show some of the unpublished work (as well as create a better site), so >> maybe camping on her lawn is not so urgent? Did she mention a projected >> date to you for these happenings? >> >> "Exciting new plans are in progress for the new >> official home on the Web of Joseph Ceravolo's Poetry. Audio recordings >> of his readings and never before published poems will be made available >> to the public in the near future. Check back often as the Web site will >> be experiencing a complete redesign very soon." >> >> >> Best, >> Amy >> >> http://www.amyking.org/blog >> >> >> >> Thu, 16 Aug 2007 09:25:07 -0500 >> UB Poetics discussion group >> From: CA Conrad >> Subject: Dear Buffalo List,a message from Rosemary Ceravolo on her husband >> Jospeh Ceravolo's "Fits of Dawn" >> >> I promised that I would make this as public as possible. That PDF file of >> the Ceravolo chapbook "Fits of Dawn" as it turns out was made by someone who >> did not have permission from Rosemary Ceravolo, who is the literary executor >> to her late husband's work. >> >> She wrote me an angry e-mail after finding out about this PDF. >> >> She was convinced it was Joe Massey who had made the file, but I assured her >> it was not, and that neither of us have any idea who made it. And this is >> true, and my hope is that the person who DID make it finds out through this >> post somehow and has the sense to take it off their server before she finds >> them. The sooner the better, trust me on this one, she's not happy, and >> she's not messing around! >> >> But she has, as you can imagine, asked us to no longer forward the PDF file >> to those requesting it. And since I've still been getting about half a >> dozen new requests each week since the initial FLOOD of requests, I've >> decided to agree to make the message from her public. >> >> I'm very sad about this news. She wants us to refer to the website: >> http://josephceravolo.com/ >> No disrespect to those who made this site, but it's awful. >> >> But not as awful as living in a world of bookshelves empty of Ceravolo's >> poems. It makes no sense. So many of us Love his poems. So very many of >> us. What is all this protection about I wonder? >> >> I'm sad about this because the experience of the PDF file with the help of >> Joe Massey has made it clear that there are HUNDREDS of us hungry poets! >> It's been great being in touch with so many of you over the "Fits of Dawn" >> PDF that none of us knew was, well, illegal. >> >> But I encourage EVERYONE to march your asses over to your local library and >> ask the interlibrary loan department to order his books. You cannot, must >> not, ever be deprived of this amazing poetry! >> >> LET'S HAVE THE CERAVOLO REVOLUTION ANYWAY! >> Hey, is anyone interested in helping me getting about a hundred of us >> together to sit on Rosemary Ceravolo's lawn and read his poems through a >> bullhorn until she agrees to put out a collected? >> >> Suppose she doesn't have a lawn? We'll figure it out, don't worry. Life's >> too fucking short to worry. But not so short we can't imagine doing >> whatever we need to do to change things. >> >> With an exhilaration of Love for the poems that never feels depleted, >> CAConrad >> http://PhillySound.blogspot.com >> >> >> >> --------------------------------- >> Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. > "Christopher Columbus, as everyone knows, is honored by posterity because he was the last to discover America." -James Joyce ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 17:11:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Heirs, was Dear Buffalo List, a message from Rosemary Ceravolo on her husband Jospeh Ceravolo's "Fits of Dawn" In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Spoken like a man with no children, or with a great deal of other property. Do you feel the same about, say, real estate? I buy a worthless piece of land, my heirs sell it for a mint when the mall opens next door. The story of the Ceravalo file is now completely clear, I think, if there's a book coming out. Widow deals with publisher who would probably be upset to have his book pre-empted by a bootleg. Widow wants control of what's left of her loved one. Widow wants to make sure things are done correctly. Widow feels she has a moral right (her legal right isn't in question) to what little return there might be for her sacrifice in making the poems possible, which may be considerable. If you do want your poems out there in public domain after you die you'd better specify as such in a will. The next of kin automatically owns everything in the absence of one, and no publisher in her/his right mind will touch the poems unless the heir can be found. If you do decide to specify that the poems are public domain, of course, your heirs have no recourse if they are mangled or plagiarized, and whatever press thinks it can make a profit on your work will simply make more profit. Smarter would be if the heirs or executor know and honor your intention. I plan a posthumous book by a poet whose heirs want nothing but preapproval of the text, to make sure I don't screw it up. They know that their cut would in any case not amount to much. Mark At 03:58 PM 8/17/2007, you wrote: >For what it's worth, i have every intention of leaving whatever >poetry I leave behind, of whatever dubious value it is to anyone >anywhere, and I doubt that it will mean much to anyone, in the >public domain and I would encourage other poets to do the same. I >have a hard time getting behind teh way our culture allows the work >of dead artists to make more money for their heirs than they ever >could have made for tht artists. it seems like a loophole in the estate tax. > > >On Thu, 16 Aug 2007, Mark Weiss wrote: > >>She may be doing exactly as he wished. >> >>Let's broaden this a bit. I've dealt with a lot of descendants of >>poets. It's sometimes not a pretty picture. Many do an excellent >>job. Others know nothing about poetry or publishing and could care >>less, except, sometimes, about the stray dime. I've had distant >>cousins ask for outrageous sums of money for use of their >>relative's work, in effect making publication by anyone unlikely. >>The heir of one Cuban poet I would have dearly liked to include in >>my anthology asked for considerably more than the entire budget for >>the book. The nephew and heir of one important South American poet >>(who had barely met the deceased) when faced with a choice went for >>a small selected by a third-rate translator because the publisher >>offered 12 %. That book fell off the shelves with almiost no >>notice, but no one else can publish translations of thepoet for >>several years. Junction Press, my imprint, had offered 10%, staying >>in print basically forever, and a definitive, large collection with >>no restrictions as to other translations. There are heirs who don't >>answer queries, and one at least, of an important English-language >>Caribbean poet, who may or may not be sitting on a pile of >>unpublished work, but she wouldn't know because of the heroin. >> >>The message is: don't leave this casual or by default. Write a >>will, appointing as executor(s) someone you trust, and spell out >>what you want done with the work and what the rights of the heirs >>are to be, presuming they're not the same person/people.. Be sure >>to ask your proposed executor beforehand whether she/he is willing >>to take on the job. Don't wait till you'r old to do this--one never knows. >> >>And it doesn't hurt to have a lawyer look over the will and make >>suggestions. This costs, but presumably the cost will be the least >>of the expenses poetry has entailed for you. >> >>A related issue. What should an executor or heir do if the writer >>instructs them (think Dickinson and Kafka) to destroy the work or >>suppress it forever? There are legal implications, but the moral >>implications are I think more important. I don't have an answer for >>this one. In the case of the overhyped posthumous Bishop, she might >>have been wise to specify the manner of permitted publication, say >>as a scholarly footnote rather than a collection of lost treasures. >>The heirs would probably have made less money, though. >> >>Mark >> >> >>At 11:39 AM 8/16/2007, you wrote: >>>The fly in the ointment: >>>How do you know that his widow isn't doing as Joe Ceravolo wished? >>>I'm thinking of the latest case with Elizabeth Bishop's "Edgar >>>Allan Poe & the Juke-Box". If a poet doesn't want his or her >>>"posthumous" work published, must he or she burn everything? >>>Is it okay to entrust original drafts et al to a friend or widow >>>with specific instructions and hope for the best? >>> >>>I just took a cursory look at the website; she seems to be making >>>plans to show some of the unpublished work (as well as create a >>>better site), so maybe camping on her lawn is not so urgent? Did >>>she mention a projected date to you for these happenings? >>>"Exciting new plans are in progress for the new >>>official home on the Web of Joseph Ceravolo's Poetry. Audio recordings >>>of his readings and never before published poems will be made available >>>to the public in the near future. Check back often as the Web site will >>>be experiencing a complete redesign very soon." >>> >>>Best, >>>Amy >>>http://www.amyking.org/blog >>> >>>Thu, 16 Aug 2007 09:25:07 -0500 >>>UB Poetics discussion group >>>From: CA Conrad >>>Subject: Dear Buffalo List,a message from Rosemary Ceravolo on >>>her husband Jospeh Ceravolo's "Fits of Dawn" >>> I promised that I would make this as public as possible. That PDF file of >>>the Ceravolo chapbook "Fits of Dawn" as it turns out was made by someone who >>>did not have permission from Rosemary Ceravolo, who is the literary executor >>>to her late husband's work. >>>She wrote me an angry e-mail after finding out about this PDF. >>>She was convinced it was Joe Massey who had made the file, but I assured her >>>it was not, and that neither of us have any idea who made it. And this is >>>true, and my hope is that the person who DID make it finds out through this >>>post somehow and has the sense to take it off their server before she finds >>>them. The sooner the better, trust me on this one, she's not happy, and >>>she's not messing around! >>>But she has, as you can imagine, asked us to no longer forward the PDF file >>>to those requesting it. And since I've still been getting about half a >>>dozen new requests each week since the initial FLOOD of requests, I've >>>decided to agree to make the message from her public. >>>I'm very sad about this news. She wants us to refer to the website: >>>http://josephceravolo.com/ >>>No disrespect to those who made this site, but it's awful. >>>But not as awful as living in a world of bookshelves empty of Ceravolo's >>>poems. It makes no sense. So many of us Love his poems. So very many of >>>us. What is all this protection about I wonder? >>>I'm sad about this because the experience of the PDF file with the help of >>>Joe Massey has made it clear that there are HUNDREDS of us hungry poets! >>>It's been great being in touch with so many of you over the "Fits of Dawn" >>>PDF that none of us knew was, well, illegal. >>>But I encourage EVERYONE to march your asses over to your local library and >>>ask the interlibrary loan department to order his books. You cannot, must >>>not, ever be deprived of this amazing poetry! >>>LET'S HAVE THE CERAVOLO REVOLUTION ANYWAY! >>>Hey, is anyone interested in helping me getting about a hundred of us >>>together to sit on Rosemary Ceravolo's lawn and read his poems through a >>>bullhorn until she agrees to put out a collected? >>>Suppose she doesn't have a lawn? We'll figure it out, don't worry. Life's >>>too fucking short to worry. But not so short we can't imagine doing >>>whatever we need to do to change things. >>>With an exhilaration of Love for the poems that never feels depleted, >>>CAConrad >>>http://PhillySound.blogspot.com >>> >>>--------------------------------- >>>Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 14:23:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: Heirs, was Dear Buffalo List, a message from Rosemary Ceravolo on her husband Jospeh Ceravolo's "Fits of Dawn" In-Reply-To: <267392.36121.qm@web53703.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed they'll be in the public domain so edit away. On Fri, 17 Aug 2007, Amish Trivedi wrote: > I am poised and ready for The Lost Quackenbush poems! That's assuming I outlive you. > > If I do outlive you, can I edit them? :) > > Amish > > Jason Quackenbush wrote: > For what it's worth, i have every intention of leaving whatever poetry I leave behind, of whatever dubious value it is to anyone anywhere, and I doubt that it will mean much to anyone, in the public domain and I would encourage other poets to do the same. I have a hard time getting behind teh way our culture allows the work of dead artists to make more money for their heirs than they ever could have made for tht artists. it seems like a loophole in the estate tax. > > > On Thu, 16 Aug 2007, Mark Weiss wrote: > >> She may be doing exactly as he wished. >> >> Let's broaden this a bit. I've dealt with a lot of descendants of poets. It's >> sometimes not a pretty picture. Many do an excellent job. Others know nothing >> about poetry or publishing and could care less, except, sometimes, about the >> stray dime. I've had distant cousins ask for outrageous sums of money for use >> of their relative's work, in effect making publication by anyone unlikely. The >> heir of one Cuban poet I would have dearly liked to include in my anthology >> asked for considerably more than the entire budget for the book. The nephew and >> heir of one important South American poet (who had barely met the deceased) >> when faced with a choice went for a small selected by a third-rate translator >> because the publisher offered 12 %. That book fell off the shelves with almiost >> no notice, but no one else can publish translations of thepoet for several >> years. Junction Press, my imprint, had offered 10%, staying in print basically >> forever, and a definitive, large collection with no restrictions as to other >> translations. There are heirs who don't answer queries, and one at least, of an >> important English-language Caribbean poet, who may or may not be sitting on a >> pile of unpublished work, but she wouldn't know because of the heroin. >> >> The message is: don't leave this casual or by default. Write a will, appointing >> as executor(s) someone you trust, and spell out what you want done with the >> work and what the rights of the heirs are to be, presuming they're not the same >> person/people.. Be sure to ask your proposed executor beforehand whether she/he >> is willing to take on the job. Don't wait till you'r old to do this--one never >> knows. >> >> And it doesn't hurt to have a lawyer look over the will and make suggestions. >> This costs, but presumably the cost will be the least of the expenses poetry >> has entailed for you. >> >> A related issue. What should an executor or heir do if the writer instructs >> them (think Dickinson and Kafka) to destroy the work or suppress it forever? >> There are legal implications, but the moral implications are I think more >> important. I don't have an answer for this one. In the case of the overhyped >> posthumous Bishop, she might have been wise to specify the manner of permitted >> publication, say as a scholarly footnote rather than a collection of lost >> treasures. The heirs would probably have made less money, though. >> >> Mark >> >> >> At 11:39 AM 8/16/2007, you wrote: >>> The fly in the ointment: >>> >>> How do you know that his widow isn't doing as Joe Ceravolo wished? >>> >>> I'm thinking of the latest case with Elizabeth Bishop's "Edgar Allan Poe & >>> the Juke-Box". If a poet doesn't want his or her "posthumous" work >>> published, must he or she burn everything? >>> >>> Is it okay to entrust original drafts et al to a friend or widow with >>> specific instructions and hope for the best? >>> >>> >>> I just took a cursory look at the website; she seems to be making plans to >>> show some of the unpublished work (as well as create a better site), so >>> maybe camping on her lawn is not so urgent? Did she mention a projected >>> date to you for these happenings? >>> >>> "Exciting new plans are in progress for the new >>> official home on the Web of Joseph Ceravolo's Poetry. Audio recordings >>> of his readings and never before published poems will be made available >>> to the public in the near future. Check back often as the Web site will >>> be experiencing a complete redesign very soon." >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> Amy >>> >>> http://www.amyking.org/blog >>> >>> >>> >>> Thu, 16 Aug 2007 09:25:07 -0500 >>> UB Poetics discussion group >>> From: CA Conrad >>> Subject: Dear Buffalo List,a message from Rosemary Ceravolo on her husband >>> Jospeh Ceravolo's "Fits of Dawn" >>> >>> I promised that I would make this as public as possible. That PDF file of >>> the Ceravolo chapbook "Fits of Dawn" as it turns out was made by someone who >>> did not have permission from Rosemary Ceravolo, who is the literary executor >>> to her late husband's work. >>> >>> She wrote me an angry e-mail after finding out about this PDF. >>> >>> She was convinced it was Joe Massey who had made the file, but I assured her >>> it was not, and that neither of us have any idea who made it. And this is >>> true, and my hope is that the person who DID make it finds out through this >>> post somehow and has the sense to take it off their server before she finds >>> them. The sooner the better, trust me on this one, she's not happy, and >>> she's not messing around! >>> >>> But she has, as you can imagine, asked us to no longer forward the PDF file >>> to those requesting it. And since I've still been getting about half a >>> dozen new requests each week since the initial FLOOD of requests, I've >>> decided to agree to make the message from her public. >>> >>> I'm very sad about this news. She wants us to refer to the website: >>> http://josephceravolo.com/ >>> No disrespect to those who made this site, but it's awful. >>> >>> But not as awful as living in a world of bookshelves empty of Ceravolo's >>> poems. It makes no sense. So many of us Love his poems. So very many of >>> us. What is all this protection about I wonder? >>> >>> I'm sad about this because the experience of the PDF file with the help of >>> Joe Massey has made it clear that there are HUNDREDS of us hungry poets! >>> It's been great being in touch with so many of you over the "Fits of Dawn" >>> PDF that none of us knew was, well, illegal. >>> >>> But I encourage EVERYONE to march your asses over to your local library and >>> ask the interlibrary loan department to order his books. You cannot, must >>> not, ever be deprived of this amazing poetry! >>> >>> LET'S HAVE THE CERAVOLO REVOLUTION ANYWAY! >>> Hey, is anyone interested in helping me getting about a hundred of us >>> together to sit on Rosemary Ceravolo's lawn and read his poems through a >>> bullhorn until she agrees to put out a collected? >>> >>> Suppose she doesn't have a lawn? We'll figure it out, don't worry. Life's >>> too fucking short to worry. But not so short we can't imagine doing >>> whatever we need to do to change things. >>> >>> With an exhilaration of Love for the poems that never feels depleted, >>> CAConrad >>> http://PhillySound.blogspot.com >>> >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------- >>> Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. >> > > > > "Christopher Columbus, as everyone knows, is honored by posterity because he was the last to discover America." > -James Joyce > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 14:38:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: Heirs, was Dear Buffalo List, a message from Rosemary Ceravolo on her husband Jospeh Ceravolo's "Fits of Dawn" In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20070817165739.056073d0@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed I think this hits my limit for the day, but I did want to respond. I'll say that I feel this way specifically about poetry, and while i have similar sentiments about other genres, novels for example, and to a greater extent music. I have a hard time seeing things that I create as my property, particularly after they've been published. At that point I honestly don't care about them very much anymore. I could see it bothering me if someone reprinted something i wrote and screwed it up really badly and still put my name on it. But that would hurt my ego and vanity more than anything else. I wouldn't feel like they'd keyed my car, which would be the better analogy to property. what it comes down to though is that I never really expect to ever make any money from my poetry, and i don't have any burning desire to either. I write it because i like to write it, and i try to publish it because i like it when people read it. that's the only value there is in it for me. I'd much rather after i'm gone that if it has any readers that they be able to get it without having to shall out for an expensive book by an exceedingly obscure dead guy than for my heirs to be able to buy a couple of six packs of PBR with the royalties from a post-humous publication of something I wrote. If i someday manage to finish a novel that I can sell and it sells in decent numbers, I might feel differently about that. Somehow authorship and the monetary aspect of novelized entertainment seem more valuable to me. At the same time, as far as my heirs (although i don't have any biological children just yet) are concerned I think a person takes care of their legacy while they're alive. My folks didn't inherit much from their parents, some jewelry and a few grand, an old car, and I won't inherit much more from them, but while they were alive they took care of eachother and at the risk of sounding like a hallmark card, that's worth more than real estate. On Fri, 17 Aug 2007, Mark Weiss wrote: > Spoken like a man with no children, or with a great deal of other property. Do > you feel the same about, say, real estate? I buy a worthless piece of land, my > heirs sell it for a mint when the mall opens next door. > > The story of the Ceravalo file is now completely clear, I think, if there's a > book coming out. Widow deals with publisher who would probably be upset to have > his book pre-empted by a bootleg. Widow wants control of what's left of her > loved one. Widow wants to make sure things are done correctly. Widow feels she > has a moral right (her legal right isn't in question) to what little return > there might be for her sacrifice in making the poems possible, which may be > considerable. > > If you do want your poems out there in public domain after you die you'd better > specify as such in a will. The next of kin automatically owns everything in the > absence of one, and no publisher in her/his right mind will touch the poems > unless the heir can be found. If you do decide to specify that the poems are > public domain, of course, your heirs have no recourse if they are mangled or > plagiarized, and whatever press thinks it can make a profit on your work will > simply make more profit. > > Smarter would be if the heirs or executor know and honor your intention. I plan > a posthumous book by a poet whose heirs want nothing but preapproval of the > text, to make sure I don't screw it up. They know that their cut would in any > case not amount to much. > > Mark > > At 03:58 PM 8/17/2007, you wrote: >> For what it's worth, i have every intention of leaving whatever poetry I >> leave behind, of whatever dubious value it is to anyone anywhere, and I >> doubt that it will mean much to anyone, in the public domain and I would >> encourage other poets to do the same. I have a hard time getting behind teh >> way our culture allows the work of dead artists to make more money for their >> heirs than they ever could have made for tht artists. it seems like a >> loophole in the estate tax. >> >> >> On Thu, 16 Aug 2007, Mark Weiss wrote: >> >>> She may be doing exactly as he wished. >>> >>> Let's broaden this a bit. I've dealt with a lot of descendants of poets. >>> It's sometimes not a pretty picture. Many do an excellent job. Others know >>> nothing about poetry or publishing and could care less, except, sometimes, >>> about the stray dime. I've had distant cousins ask for outrageous sums of >>> money for use of their relative's work, in effect making publication by >>> anyone unlikely. The heir of one Cuban poet I would have dearly liked to >>> include in my anthology asked for considerably more than the entire budget >>> for the book. The nephew and heir of one important South American poet >>> (who had barely met the deceased) when faced with a choice went for a >>> small selected by a third-rate translator because the publisher offered 12 >>> %. That book fell off the shelves with almiost no notice, but no one else >>> can publish translations of thepoet for several years. Junction Press, my >>> imprint, had offered 10%, staying in print basically forever, and a >>> definitive, large collection with no restrictions as to other >>> translations. There are heirs who don't answer queries, and one at least, >>> of an important English-language Caribbean poet, who may or may not be >>> sitting on a pile of unpublished work, but she wouldn't know because of >>> the heroin. >>> >>> The message is: don't leave this casual or by default. Write a will, >>> appointing as executor(s) someone you trust, and spell out what you want >>> done with the work and what the rights of the heirs are to be, presuming >>> they're not the same person/people.. Be sure to ask your proposed executor >>> beforehand whether she/he is willing to take on the job. Don't wait till >>> you'r old to do this--one never knows. >>> >>> And it doesn't hurt to have a lawyer look over the will and make >>> suggestions. This costs, but presumably the cost will be the least of the >>> expenses poetry has entailed for you. >>> >>> A related issue. What should an executor or heir do if the writer >>> instructs them (think Dickinson and Kafka) to destroy the work or suppress >>> it forever? There are legal implications, but the moral implications are I >>> think more important. I don't have an answer for this one. In the case of >>> the overhyped posthumous Bishop, she might have been wise to specify the >>> manner of permitted publication, say as a scholarly footnote rather than a >>> collection of lost treasures. The heirs would probably have made less >>> money, though. >>> >>> Mark >>> >>> >>> At 11:39 AM 8/16/2007, you wrote: >>>> The fly in the ointment: >>>> How do you know that his widow isn't doing as Joe Ceravolo wished? >>>> I'm thinking of the latest case with Elizabeth Bishop's "Edgar Allan Poe >>>> & the Juke-Box". If a poet doesn't want his or her "posthumous" work >>>> published, must he or she burn everything? >>>> Is it okay to entrust original drafts et al to a friend or widow with >>>> specific instructions and hope for the best? >>>> >>>> I just took a cursory look at the website; she seems to be making plans >>>> to show some of the unpublished work (as well as create a better site), >>>> so maybe camping on her lawn is not so urgent? Did she mention a >>>> projected date to you for these happenings? >>>> "Exciting new plans are in progress for the new >>>> official home on the Web of Joseph Ceravolo's Poetry. Audio recordings >>>> of his readings and never before published poems will be made available >>>> to the public in the near future. Check back often as the Web site will >>>> be experiencing a complete redesign very soon." >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Amy >>>> http://www.amyking.org/blog >>>> >>>> Thu, 16 Aug 2007 09:25:07 -0500 >>>> UB Poetics discussion group >>>> From: CA Conrad >>>> Subject: Dear Buffalo List,a message from Rosemary Ceravolo on her >>>> husband Jospeh Ceravolo's "Fits of Dawn" >>>> I promised that I would make this as public as possible. That PDF file >>>> of >>>> the Ceravolo chapbook "Fits of Dawn" as it turns out was made by someone >>>> who >>>> did not have permission from Rosemary Ceravolo, who is the literary >>>> executor >>>> to her late husband's work. >>>> She wrote me an angry e-mail after finding out about this PDF. >>>> She was convinced it was Joe Massey who had made the file, but I assured >>>> her >>>> it was not, and that neither of us have any idea who made it. And this >>>> is >>>> true, and my hope is that the person who DID make it finds out through >>>> this >>>> post somehow and has the sense to take it off their server before she >>>> finds >>>> them. The sooner the better, trust me on this one, she's not happy, and >>>> she's not messing around! >>>> But she has, as you can imagine, asked us to no longer forward the PDF >>>> file >>>> to those requesting it. And since I've still been getting about half a >>>> dozen new requests each week since the initial FLOOD of requests, I've >>>> decided to agree to make the message from her public. >>>> I'm very sad about this news. She wants us to refer to the website: >>>> http://josephceravolo.com/ >>>> No disrespect to those who made this site, but it's awful. >>>> But not as awful as living in a world of bookshelves empty of Ceravolo's >>>> poems. It makes no sense. So many of us Love his poems. So very many >>>> of >>>> us. What is all this protection about I wonder? >>>> I'm sad about this because the experience of the PDF file with the help >>>> of >>>> Joe Massey has made it clear that there are HUNDREDS of us hungry poets! >>>> It's been great being in touch with so many of you over the "Fits of >>>> Dawn" >>>> PDF that none of us knew was, well, illegal. >>>> But I encourage EVERYONE to march your asses over to your local library >>>> and >>>> ask the interlibrary loan department to order his books. You cannot, >>>> must >>>> not, ever be deprived of this amazing poetry! >>>> LET'S HAVE THE CERAVOLO REVOLUTION ANYWAY! >>>> Hey, is anyone interested in helping me getting about a hundred of us >>>> together to sit on Rosemary Ceravolo's lawn and read his poems through a >>>> bullhorn until she agrees to put out a collected? >>>> Suppose she doesn't have a lawn? We'll figure it out, don't worry. >>>> Life's >>>> too fucking short to worry. But not so short we can't imagine doing >>>> whatever we need to do to change things. >>>> With an exhilaration of Love for the poems that never feels depleted, >>>> CAConrad >>>> http://PhillySound.blogspot.com >>>> >>>> --------------------------------- >>>> Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 17:52:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: models of praxis?? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit wow cris, this is timely but i'm coming in late as i was on retreat this past week. our creative writing program is housed w/in the English dept but has a tense relationship to it, with each party (the "lit/theory" side/ the "writing" side of the faculty) feeling misunderstood, marginalized and/or exploited. it's hard to get any dialogue going, and it's the students who suffer. Mairead Byrne wrote: > cris, this is a very timely query for me because I am trying to rethink > the undergraduate creative writing program at the (art & design) school > where I teach. In this case, it's a matter of creative writing courses > within a BFA, not a BA. I don't have a problem with the term "creative > writing" (though I probably like Kenny Goldsmith's "uncreative writing" > even more), as I'm very conscious of the history of the discipline in > America; in some ways I'm even proud to own the term. There is enough > uneasiness about it though to warrant a next move -- I'll be interested > to hear what you come up with. > > I don't teach writing within a BA, but within a BFA (studio majors). > It's very difficult to build progression into our curriculum, though we > try. We have a fantastic faculty of two full-time people; and a core > group of part-time faculty, widely published & experienced. One > question I have concerns courses like the second year course Wystan > mentioned, "Creative Writing: Introduction," i.e., introductory courses > in more than one genre. How do faculty, whose practice and achievement > is in one genre, teach the craft of a second? Is the expectation that > the lessons learned in one genre transfer to a second or third? Or do > faculty teaching introductory courses generally have experience in more > than one genre? And the concomitant question: to what extent > can/should you detach curriculum from faculty? In creative writing, > have teachers tended to teach from their own practice more than from an > agreed curriculum? > > I'd love to hear more about what you're doing or trying to do, cris. > For example, can students repeat courses for credit? How many books do > you customarily assign in creative writing workshops (when I was a > graduate student, books were not necessarily assigned, but I tend to > assign lots, too many maybe, up to 10)? What's your take on > genre-based workshops? > (My own is: the more amorphous/pervasive poetry becomes for as a form, > the more I want to teach its conventional forms! ). What are the > interest points in this discussion for you? What are the conflicts? > What have you been able to apply from your experience and contexts in > England? What would you like to apply? > > Another thing that's a problem, as time goes on, and as experience in a > genre deepens, is that the gap between teacher and student widens. I > often assign texts on the basis of my own interest -- I may be bored by > texts students haven't even read yet. So, as check-and-balance, the > notion of a creative writing curriculum becomes a little attractive, as > in Wystan's portfolio of courses, i.e., the best thought of a range of > faculty is employed to design an overall structure, within which > individuals teach. In my own experience, overall structure in creative > writing programs has either been very, very basic, e.g., Intro to > Creative Writing, then Beginning, Intermediate, or Advanced workshops in > genres; or madly proliferating, with a wide range of faculty offering a > bouquet of similar but different courses. I'd love to hear some "best > thought" on undergraduate creative writing curricula, also from those > who feel they are achieving good results. > Mairead > > > > >>>> w.curnow@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ 08/12/07 11:23 PM >>> >>>> > cris, > > In this English Department in Auckland, New Zealand, writing courses > are offerred at each level: first year includes a course called > Reading/Writing/Text, second year offerings includes Creative Writing: > Introduction, and Writing and Culture, at the third (final BA year)there > are five courses: Poetry off the page, focusing on live and electronic > performance, Writing poetry, and Writing the short story, Rhetoric and > Compositonand The Art and craft of the Essay. There is no BA in Creative > Writing but students can make a speciality of writing in their English > major by availing themselves of the range of offerings. There is now, > however, a Masters in Creative Writing--started this year. There are > other courses at the Masters level, such as Pragmatic, Literacy, > Poetics; Topics in Poetics; as well as undergraduate courses, such as > Contemporary poetry at third year, that are of use to students > interested in writing creative or otherwise. This development of a > portfolio of writing courses has > Been developed over the last few years, partly in reponse to student > interest and partly through a determination to take writing as such, > seriously, which means leaving remedial, vocational, purely applied > teaching to others. > I teach Writing Poetry and Contemporary poetry at third year, and the > graduate course, Topics in Poetics. We also have a Drama programme which > includes 4 graduate courses in dramatic writing. There are 4 poets and a > novelist among the permanent staff. > > Wystan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] > On Behalf Of cris cheek > Sent: Monday, 13 August 2007 4:19 a.m. > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: models of praxis?? > > hi, > > since the list (or part of the list) is discussing curricula i wonder if > anybody can give me some pointers as to where and how models of creative > writing practice have been integrated into a more conventional degree in > English ? > > i know i know . . . the term Creative Writing does not do it to me > either. I'm kinda stuck with it atm (tbc) > > There are many English Departments (in the USAmerican system) offering > Creative Writing and English Literature, for example, as well as > Composition and Rhetoric and Technical and Scientific Communication at > undergraduate and graduate levels. > > How many of those seriously intertwine creative writing "practice" > into a straight forward English degree, so that students emerge with an > English BA (say) rather than a Creative Writing BA and so that Lit > students will have struggled with the material practicalities of > creative writing practice? > > Keen to hear of any mixes out there, anecdptes etc . . attempts . . . > i know this *might bore the clothing off list members but am grateful > for any leads either up front or back channel. > > love and looking forwards > cris > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 20:31:31 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: angela vasquez-giroux Subject: Re: Heirs, was Dear Buffalo List, a message from Rosemary Ceravolo on her husband Jospeh Ceravolo's "Fits of Dawn" In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20070817165739.056073d0@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline For the readers of a poet like Ceravalo, tho, I don't think the "leaked" pdf is going to disturb sales. Not in the same way that leaking Justin Timberlake's new album would affect sales for the casual buyer. But, honestly, I don't think there is really such a thing as a "casual" poetry buyer. We're all reading the bootleg because that is all we can get our hands on! If more Ceravalo was made available, I'd buy it. Without question. I hope Rosemary will consider putting out even a small run of her husband's work; clearly there are a great deal of us clamoring for it! I'm glad I got hold of some Ceravalo, at any rate. Angela On 8/17/07, Mark Weiss wrote: > > Spoken like a man with no children, or with a great deal of other > property. Do you feel the same about, say, real estate? I buy a > worthless piece of land, my heirs sell it for a mint when the mall > opens next door. > > The story of the Ceravalo file is now completely clear, I think, if > there's a book coming out. Widow deals with publisher who would > probably be upset to have his book pre-empted by a bootleg. Widow > wants control of what's left of her loved one. Widow wants to make > sure things are done correctly. Widow feels she has a moral right > (her legal right isn't in question) to what little return there might > be for her sacrifice in making the poems possible, which may be > considerable. > > If you do want your poems out there in public domain after you die > you'd better specify as such in a will. The next of kin automatically > owns everything in the absence of one, and no publisher in her/his > right mind will touch the poems unless the heir can be found. If you > do decide to specify that the poems are public domain, of course, > your heirs have no recourse if they are mangled or plagiarized, and > whatever press thinks it can make a profit on your work will simply > make more profit. > > Smarter would be if the heirs or executor know and honor your > intention. I plan a posthumous book by a poet whose heirs want > nothing but preapproval of the text, to make sure I don't screw it > up. They know that their cut would in any case not amount to much. > > Mark > > At 03:58 PM 8/17/2007, you wrote: > >For what it's worth, i have every intention of leaving whatever > >poetry I leave behind, of whatever dubious value it is to anyone > >anywhere, and I doubt that it will mean much to anyone, in the > >public domain and I would encourage other poets to do the same. I > >have a hard time getting behind teh way our culture allows the work > >of dead artists to make more money for their heirs than they ever > >could have made for tht artists. it seems like a loophole in the estate > tax. > > > > > >On Thu, 16 Aug 2007, Mark Weiss wrote: > > > >>She may be doing exactly as he wished. > >> > >>Let's broaden this a bit. I've dealt with a lot of descendants of > >>poets. It's sometimes not a pretty picture. Many do an excellent > >>job. Others know nothing about poetry or publishing and could care > >>less, except, sometimes, about the stray dime. I've had distant > >>cousins ask for outrageous sums of money for use of their > >>relative's work, in effect making publication by anyone unlikely. > >>The heir of one Cuban poet I would have dearly liked to include in > >>my anthology asked for considerably more than the entire budget for > >>the book. The nephew and heir of one important South American poet > >>(who had barely met the deceased) when faced with a choice went for > >>a small selected by a third-rate translator because the publisher > >>offered 12 %. That book fell off the shelves with almiost no > >>notice, but no one else can publish translations of thepoet for > >>several years. Junction Press, my imprint, had offered 10%, staying > >>in print basically forever, and a definitive, large collection with > >>no restrictions as to other translations. There are heirs who don't > >>answer queries, and one at least, of an important English-language > >>Caribbean poet, who may or may not be sitting on a pile of > >>unpublished work, but she wouldn't know because of the heroin. > >> > >>The message is: don't leave this casual or by default. Write a > >>will, appointing as executor(s) someone you trust, and spell out > >>what you want done with the work and what the rights of the heirs > >>are to be, presuming they're not the same person/people.. Be sure > >>to ask your proposed executor beforehand whether she/he is willing > >>to take on the job. Don't wait till you'r old to do this--one never > knows. > >> > >>And it doesn't hurt to have a lawyer look over the will and make > >>suggestions. This costs, but presumably the cost will be the least > >>of the expenses poetry has entailed for you. > >> > >>A related issue. What should an executor or heir do if the writer > >>instructs them (think Dickinson and Kafka) to destroy the work or > >>suppress it forever? There are legal implications, but the moral > >>implications are I think more important. I don't have an answer for > >>this one. In the case of the overhyped posthumous Bishop, she might > >>have been wise to specify the manner of permitted publication, say > >>as a scholarly footnote rather than a collection of lost treasures. > >>The heirs would probably have made less money, though. > >> > >>Mark > >> > >> > >>At 11:39 AM 8/16/2007, you wrote: > >>>The fly in the ointment: > >>>How do you know that his widow isn't doing as Joe Ceravolo wished? > >>>I'm thinking of the latest case with Elizabeth Bishop's "Edgar > >>>Allan Poe & the Juke-Box". If a poet doesn't want his or her > >>>"posthumous" work published, must he or she burn everything? > >>>Is it okay to entrust original drafts et al to a friend or widow > >>>with specific instructions and hope for the best? > >>> > >>>I just took a cursory look at the website; she seems to be making > >>>plans to show some of the unpublished work (as well as create a > >>>better site), so maybe camping on her lawn is not so urgent? Did > >>>she mention a projected date to you for these happenings? > >>>"Exciting new plans are in progress for the new > >>>official home on the Web of Joseph Ceravolo's Poetry. Audio recordings > >>>of his readings and never before published poems will be made available > >>>to the public in the near future. Check back often as the Web site will > >>>be experiencing a complete redesign very soon." > >>> > >>>Best, > >>>Amy > >>>http://www.amyking.org/blog > >>> > >>>Thu, 16 Aug 2007 09:25:07 -0500 > >>>UB Poetics discussion group > >>>From: CA Conrad > >>>Subject: Dear Buffalo List,a message from Rosemary Ceravolo on > >>>her husband Jospeh Ceravolo's "Fits of Dawn" > >>> I promised that I would make this as public as possible. That PDF > file of > >>>the Ceravolo chapbook "Fits of Dawn" as it turns out was made by > someone who > >>>did not have permission from Rosemary Ceravolo, who is the literary > executor > >>>to her late husband's work. > >>>She wrote me an angry e-mail after finding out about this PDF. > >>>She was convinced it was Joe Massey who had made the file, but I > assured her > >>>it was not, and that neither of us have any idea who made it. And this > is > >>>true, and my hope is that the person who DID make it finds out through > this > >>>post somehow and has the sense to take it off their server before she > finds > >>>them. The sooner the better, trust me on this one, she's not happy, > and > >>>she's not messing around! > >>>But she has, as you can imagine, asked us to no longer forward the PDF > file > >>>to those requesting it. And since I've still been getting about half a > >>>dozen new requests each week since the initial FLOOD of requests, I've > >>>decided to agree to make the message from her public. > >>>I'm very sad about this news. She wants us to refer to the website: > >>>http://josephceravolo.com/ > >>>No disrespect to those who made this site, but it's awful. > >>>But not as awful as living in a world of bookshelves empty of > Ceravolo's > >>>poems. It makes no sense. So many of us Love his poems. So very many > of > >>>us. What is all this protection about I wonder? > >>>I'm sad about this because the experience of the PDF file with the help > of > >>>Joe Massey has made it clear that there are HUNDREDS of us hungry > poets! > >>>It's been great being in touch with so many of you over the "Fits of > Dawn" > >>>PDF that none of us knew was, well, illegal. > >>>But I encourage EVERYONE to march your asses over to your local library > and > >>>ask the interlibrary loan department to order his books. You cannot, > must > >>>not, ever be deprived of this amazing poetry! > >>>LET'S HAVE THE CERAVOLO REVOLUTION ANYWAY! > >>>Hey, is anyone interested in helping me getting about a hundred of us > >>>together to sit on Rosemary Ceravolo's lawn and read his poems through > a > >>>bullhorn until she agrees to put out a collected? > >>>Suppose she doesn't have a lawn? We'll figure it out, don't > worry. Life's > >>>too fucking short to worry. But not so short we can't imagine doing > >>>whatever we need to do to change things. > >>>With an exhilaration of Love for the poems that never feels depleted, > >>>CAConrad > >>>http://PhillySound.blogspot.com > >>> > >>>--------------------------------- > >>>Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 18:57:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Nelson Subject: digital poetry list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit For those of you practicing/writing or simply curious about digital poetry, I've created a new list to discuss/explore its future/present. Play/join here: http://groups.google.com/group/digitalpoetry cheers, Jason Nelson --------------------------------- Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 21:13:32 -0500 Reply-To: dgodston@sbcglobal.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Godston Subject: Max Roach In-Reply-To: <20070816.143513.168.23.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Max Roach was an amazing drummer and bandleader. He will be missed. The third video in "On the Edge," narrated by Derek Bailey, features Max Roach: http://www.ubu.com/film/bailey.html. He created a lot of great, signature sounds and rhythms out of the whole drumset, but it's astounding what he was able to do with just the hi-hat: http://youtube.com/watch?v=dNpDQztqWQw&mode=related&search=. He collaborated with Oscar Brown, Jr. & Abbie Lincoln on the masterpiece "We Insist: Freedom Jazz Suite." Brown wrote the lyrics for for "Driva' Man" and "Freedom Day": http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~jscamal/civilrights/militantJazz.htm. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 00:15:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: weather of the sea MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed weather of the sea there's an audience in a large hall. they're listening to lightning. they have to listen through lots of radio they're not interested in. they're interested in lightning but lightning comes at a price. there were silences then and lightning dwelled in many mansions. think of the mansions and the forgetting of words and music. think of forgetting the sounds and cries for help and wars of mass destruction. think of wars of mass destruction and the silence of proper-name-one. think of the silence of the destruction of capitol-one. think of the noise of capitol-two, capitol-three, -four -five. lightning hisses, crackles, stutters, roars, shudders. there's an audience in a large hall. there's radio in the hall and outside, why outside it's storming. think of the weather of the sea. http://www.asondheim.org/lightninghall.mp3 (the radio, it's storming, weather in the sea.) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 02:13:39 -0400 Reply-To: Joel Lewis Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Lewis Subject: Joe Ceravolo Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I knew Joe Ceravolo in the last seven years of his life. My fellow jrsey poets and I had him read in our reading series and published him in our magazines -- in a period when many of his NYC friends thought he had stopped being an active poet. My anthology of NJ peots is co-dedicated to him. The issue around Joe's posthumous poetry career are old news. After his death, a number of younger poets offered to run work in magazines and even do collections, but were rebuffed by the estate. Not that Joe's work was easy to find when he was alive--Millenium Dust was barely availible even from the publication date, INRI (which was not included in the selected) was done in a small run and Spring in this world of poor mutts only seemed to start ciculating at the time of his death. I had heard stories that Rosemary (who under the name Mona Da Vinci is an important pioneer of feminist based art) initially resisted the Coffeehouse selected -- she was hoping that a major commercial would do the book... & who wouldn't want to have that for Joe who barely had any recognition beyond a devoted few. I remember him reading at a Wm. carlos Williams festival in rutherford. Daniel Halpern had the audience in stiches laughing at his numerous refrences to suburban lawn care products. Joe followed and actaly read each of his poems twice "so you can better understand them" he said --he could have read each 10 times as the audience seemed totaly tuned out. I do hope that Fits of Dawn and his uncollected work see print. And I am heartened that despite the scarcity of his work he has a fan base among a whole group of younger writers. Joel Lewis ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 23:38:42 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Heirs, was Dear Buffalo List, a message from Rosemary Ceravolo on her husband Jospeh Ceravolo's In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Ah! What noble sentiments poets do espouse, on contemplating their own mortality and the immortality of their works! Let alone what should be the fate of the works of others---! Perhaps there can be instituted Living Wills for poets, writers--"When the plug is pulled, launch Plan 9 for 'The Resurrection and Continuing Life Everlasting of My Corpus of Works, including the Juvenilia and the Posthumous' with proper legal guardians thereof to be Strictly Enforced for the best possible publication & distribution arrangements, whether by a Press, Web Site or Public Domain." I consider myself very fortunate, having been clinically dead 4 times (this is true). This makes it possible to be producing simultaneously truly "posthumous" works and "living" works. In a sense, one may also be considered as one's own "ghost writer" and thus producing "ghosthumous works". Free to produce simultaneously and literally works of the living, the dead and the after-effects varieties, (a Trinity so to speak-)--the authors (living, posthumous, ghosthumous) can amuse themselves on rainy days by tossing into heaps which works will be which--over there, by the collapsing ceiling's rubble, the living works. In another corner, among the spray paint cans and industrial fragments, the posthumous works. And there, beside the broken bookshelves filled with the remnants of birds' nests, levitating in the eerie phosphorescent airs of an electrical storm, the ghosthumous works. With so many "creators" working on so many forms of creation, simultaneously, continuously, sending some works out, throwing others away, losing still others--with so much indeterminacy in play already among the living, the dead, the ghosts, perhaps the best that can hoped for is that fate to which an opposing general consigned the population confusing a subordinate. When asked which were the Cathars, to be killed, and which were not, and how to tell them apart and separate them, the general had a most elegant solution to the indeterminacy: "Kill them all, and let God sort them out." A living writer, poet, can be killed--but an already dead, a ghost? Perhaps "literarialy" as opposed to "literally". And what if no God--no literary historian, critic, fellow poet, relative, heir-- is remotely interested in sorting these post and ghosthumous writers out among the heaps of works flung about in the heaps of rubble, bone and ash? Ashes to ashes, dust to dust, Chaos to Chaos . . . "The most beautiful world is a heap of rubble tossed down at random (or: in confusion)" --Heraclitus > Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 14:23:56 -0700 > From: jfq@MYUW.NET > Subject: Re: Heirs, was Dear Buffalo List, a message from Rosemary Ceravolo on her husband Jospeh Ceravolo's "Fits of Dawn" > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > they'll be in the public domain so edit away. > > > On Fri, 17 Aug 2007, Amish Trivedi wrote: > > > I am poised and ready for The Lost Quackenbush poems! That's assuming I outlive you. > > > > If I do outlive you, can I edit them? :) > > > > Amish > > > > Jason Quackenbush wrote: > > For what it's worth, i have every intention of leaving whatever poetry I leave behind, of whatever dubious value it is to anyone anywhere, and I doubt that it will mean much to anyone, in the public domain and I would encourage other poets to do the same. I have a hard time getting behind teh way our culture allows the work of dead artists to make more money for their heirs than they ever could have made for tht artists. it seems like a loophole in the estate tax. > > > > > > On Thu, 16 Aug 2007, Mark Weiss wrote: > > > >> She may be doing exactly as he wished. > >> > >> Let's broaden this a bit. I've dealt with a lot of descendants of poets. It's > >> sometimes not a pretty picture. Many do an excellent job. Others know nothing > >> about poetry or publishing and could care less, except, sometimes, about the > >> stray dime. I've had distant cousins ask for outrageous sums of money for use > >> of their relative's work, in effect making publication by anyone unlikely. The > >> heir of one Cuban poet I would have dearly liked to include in my anthology > >> asked for considerably more than the entire budget for the book. The nephew and > >> heir of one important South American poet (who had barely met the deceased) > >> when faced with a choice went for a small selected by a third-rate translator > >> because the publisher offered 12 %. That book fell off the shelves with almiost > >> no notice, but no one else can publish translations of thepoet for several > >> years. Junction Press, my imprint, had offered 10%, staying in print basically > >> forever, and a definitive, large collection with no restrictions as to other > >> translations. There are heirs who don't answer queries, and one at least, of an > >> important English-language Caribbean poet, who may or may not be sitting on a > >> pile of unpublished work, but she wouldn't know because of the heroin. > >> > >> The message is: don't leave this casual or by default. Write a will, appointing > >> as executor(s) someone you trust, and spell out what you want done with the > >> work and what the rights of the heirs are to be, presuming they're not the same > >> person/people.. Be sure to ask your proposed executor beforehand whether she/he > >> is willing to take on the job. Don't wait till you'r old to do this--one never > >> knows. > >> > >> And it doesn't hurt to have a lawyer look over the will and make suggestions. > >> This costs, but presumably the cost will be the least of the expenses poetry > >> has entailed for you. > >> > >> A related issue. What should an executor or heir do if the writer instructs > >> them (think Dickinson and Kafka) to destroy the work or suppress it forever? > >> There are legal implications, but the moral implications are I think more > >> important. I don't have an answer for this one. In the case of the overhyped > >> posthumous Bishop, she might have been wise to specify the manner of permitted > >> publication, say as a scholarly footnote rather than a collection of lost > >> treasures. The heirs would probably have made less money, though. > >> > >> Mark > >> > >> > >> At 11:39 AM 8/16/2007, you wrote: > >>> The fly in the ointment: > >>> > >>> How do you know that his widow isn't doing as Joe Ceravolo wished? > >>> > >>> I'm thinking of the latest case with Elizabeth Bishop's "Edgar Allan Poe & > >>> the Juke-Box". If a poet doesn't want his or her "posthumous" work > >>> published, must he or she burn everything? > >>> > >>> Is it okay to entrust original drafts et al to a friend or widow with > >>> specific instructions and hope for the best? > >>> > >>> > >>> I just took a cursory look at the website; she seems to be making plans to > >>> show some of the unpublished work (as well as create a better site), so > >>> maybe camping on her lawn is not so urgent? Did she mention a projected > >>> date to you for these happenings? > >>> > >>> "Exciting new plans are in progress for the new > >>> official home on the Web of Joseph Ceravolo's Poetry. Audio recordings > >>> of his readings and never before published poems will be made available > >>> to the public in the near future. Check back often as the Web site will > >>> be experiencing a complete redesign very soon." > >>> > >>> > >>> Best, > >>> Amy > >>> > >>> http://www.amyking.org/blog > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Thu, 16 Aug 2007 09:25:07 -0500 > >>> UB Poetics discussion group > >>> From: CA Conrad > >>> Subject: Dear Buffalo List,a message from Rosemary Ceravolo on her husband > >>> Jospeh Ceravolo's "Fits of Dawn" > >>> > >>> I promised that I would make this as public as possible. That PDF file of > >>> the Ceravolo chapbook "Fits of Dawn" as it turns out was made by someone who > >>> did not have permission from Rosemary Ceravolo, who is the literary executor > >>> to her late husband's work. > >>> > >>> She wrote me an angry e-mail after finding out about this PDF. > >>> > >>> She was convinced it was Joe Massey who had made the file, but I assured her > >>> it was not, and that neither of us have any idea who made it. And this is > >>> true, and my hope is that the person who DID make it finds out through this > >>> post somehow and has the sense to take it off their server before she finds > >>> them. The sooner the better, trust me on this one, she's not happy, and > >>> she's not messing around! > >>> > >>> But she has, as you can imagine, asked us to no longer forward the PDF file > >>> to those requesting it. And since I've still been getting about half a > >>> dozen new requests each week since the initial FLOOD of requests, I've > >>> decided to agree to make the message from her public. > >>> > >>> I'm very sad about this news. She wants us to refer to the website: > >>> http://josephceravolo.com/ > >>> No disrespect to those who made this site, but it's awful. > >>> > >>> But not as awful as living in a world of bookshelves empty of Ceravolo's > >>> poems. It makes no sense. So many of us Love his poems. So very many of > >>> us. What is all this protection about I wonder? > >>> > >>> I'm sad about this because the experience of the PDF file with the help of > >>> Joe Massey has made it clear that there are HUNDREDS of us hungry poets! > >>> It's been great being in touch with so many of you over the "Fits of Dawn" > >>> PDF that none of us knew was, well, illegal. > >>> > >>> But I encourage EVERYONE to march your asses over to your local library and > >>> ask the interlibrary loan department to order his books. You cannot, must > >>> not, ever be deprived of this amazing poetry! > >>> > >>> LET'S HAVE THE CERAVOLO REVOLUTION ANYWAY! > >>> Hey, is anyone interested in helping me getting about a hundred of us > >>> together to sit on Rosemary Ceravolo's lawn and read his poems through a > >>> bullhorn until she agrees to put out a collected? > >>> > >>> Suppose she doesn't have a lawn? We'll figure it out, don't worry. Life's > >>> too fucking short to worry. But not so short we can't imagine doing > >>> whatever we need to do to change things. > >>> > >>> With an exhilaration of Love for the poems that never feels depleted, > >>> CAConrad > >>> http://PhillySound.blogspot.com > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> --------------------------------- > >>> Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. > >> > > > > > > > > "Christopher Columbus, as everyone knows, is honored by posterity because he was the last to discover America." > > -James Joyce > > ________________________________ Discover the new Windows Vista Learn more! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 23:57:28 -0700 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Subject: Pavement Saw Press In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Pavement Saw Press is permanently moving after over a decade at at our old digs Pavement Saw Press 321 Empire Street Montpelier Oh 43543 if anyone is in the relative area and interested in contributing their time to a national scale publisher we are substantially revising our staff. Let me know. Be well David Baratier, editor ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 09:51:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: creative writing praxis In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit b mayer's list of exercises used to be available on her author site on epc, but i can't find it anywhere online anymore. can anyone help? it's indispensible! not just for writing classes but when i teach her work, i want to be able to refer students to it, it's so inspiring. thanks, md Ruth Lepson wrote: > Mayer's aren;t exers. in the usual sense but ways to shake people out of > slumber & therefore terrific. Things like Write when you don;t feel like it, > Write before falling asleep, Write at the same time every day. > > > On 8/15/07 9:26 AM, "J.P. Craig" wrote: > > >> I don't know if this fits, but there's the Palgrave Poetry and >> Pedagogy that came out recently. I've found it interesting. I'm going >> to be presenting with some friends from Iowa at the Midwest Writing >> Center Association conference this fall on using writing center >> techniques to teach creative writing. Specifically, we're trying to >> find and discuss alternative to the "workshop" model that we found >> lacking because, in my case, it was far too limiting on students' >> output, too product-oriented and normative. >> >> I'd really be interested in the lists you've generated so far, both >> of the helpful and unhelpful materials. >> >> Are these MA comps exams? Or is it some sort of certification exam >> aborning (as if an MA comps exam isn't, I suppose). >> >> I'm really interested in this primarily because I like teaching >> writing, and though I tend to be paid for teaching comp or ESL, I >> like encouraging and assisting young creative writers too. I'm also >> interested because my M.F.A. experience was unhelpful to my writing. >> I found the PhD in literature to be much more helpful to my writing, >> but then again I'm a sort of bookish person and not particularly >> successful as a professional poet. >> >> I wonder if things like Bernadette Mayer's experiment or other lists >> of procedures could be considered as pedagogical theory for poets? >> Are books like Koch's Wishes Lies and Dreams, though aimed at >> children, be considered useful pedagogical theory for us (maybe too >> East Coast for your needs?). I guess this move may be a tired one, >> but it's still useful: I'm asking if this is an opportunity to >> broaden what we might consider a poetry pedagogy text. Does it >> overlap literature; can we include A Test of Poetry, How to Write, >> and so on? >> >> On Aug 14, 2007, at 12:27 AM, Susan Webster Schultz wrote: >> >> >>> Increasingly, MA students at UH are asking to take exams in >>> Creative Writing Pedagogy, and increasingly >>> I'm being asked to be an examiner in this field. As to what that >>> field might be, I'll perhaps know better after >>> conducting a directed reading with 5 or so grad and undergrad >>> students this coming semester. But my impression >>> is that the "literature" on the subject is flimsy, east coast >>> centered, mono-cultural, and generally speaking, pretty >>> unhelpful. >>> >>> I did find a decent introduction to the field here: >>> >>> _The Elephants Teach: Creative Writing Since 1880_, by David G. Myers. >>> I also like, as a tool, Hazel Smith's _The Writing Experiment_, >>> though I confess I haven't yet used it to teach by. >>> >>> But my strong sense is that there needs to me more and better >>> writing on the subject, because if the lists I'm seeing >>> are any indication, the field is pretty anemic. >>> >>> aloha, Susan >>> >>> who is watching: >>> >>> http://www.goes.noaa.gov/ha2.html >>> >> JP Craig >> http://jpcraig.blogspot.com/ >> ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 16:59:19 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: Joe Ceravolo In-Reply-To: <26102158.1187417620002.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Thank you for the image you are giving us of Ceravolo. I would like to introduce another poet of Italo-American origins, probably more forgotten than Ceravolo whose poetry has lately been revisited and made available to potential readers through Dennis Barone: Emanuel Carnevali. Thanks to Barone I opened a page for him on the Poets' Corner: http://www.fieralingue.it/modules/poemreviews/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=260 On 8/18/07, Joel Lewis wrote: > > I knew Joe Ceravolo in the last seven years of his life. My fellow jrsey > poets and I had him read in our reading series and published him in our > magazines -- in a period when many of his NYC friends thought he had stopped > being an active poet. My anthology of NJ peots is co-dedicated to him. > > The issue around Joe's posthumous poetry career are old news. After his > death, a number of younger poets offered to run work in magazines and even > do collections, but were rebuffed by the estate. Not that Joe's work was > easy to find when he was alive--Millenium Dust was barely availible even > from the publication date, INRI (which was not included in the selected) was > done in a small run and Spring in this world of poor mutts only seemed to > start ciculating at the time of his death. > > I had heard stories that Rosemary (who under the name Mona Da Vinci is an > important pioneer of feminist based art) initially resisted the Coffeehouse > selected -- she was hoping that a major commercial would do the book... & > who wouldn't want to have that for Joe who barely had any recognition beyond > a devoted few. > > I remember him reading at a Wm. carlos Williams festival in rutherford. > Daniel Halpern had the audience in stiches laughing at his numerous > refrences to suburban lawn care products. Joe followed and actaly read each > of his poems twice "so you can better understand them" he said --he could > have read each 10 times as the audience seemed totaly tuned out. > > I do hope that Fits of Dawn and his uncollected work see print. And I am > heartened that despite the scarcity of his work he has a fan base > among a whole group of younger writers. > > Joel Lewis > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 11:34:27 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: CA Conrad Subject: Re: Joe Ceravolo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear Joel, thanks for this information, very important. I'm glad what I've heard is partially WRONG! And of course I hope very much that Amy King's friend is right! How fantastic is this news!? A Joseph Ceravolo COLLECTED is something I'll want to buy every poet I know for Halloween, or Bastille Day, provided I win some cash in Atlantic City. Not a problem though, as I've got an amazing arm on the penny slots! Also Joel, I bought some books you sold to Molly Russakoff here in Philadelphia. You had doubles of a bunch of books from your library and sold them or donated them, or something, to her book shop. Great stuff! Hope you do that again some day soon! When she called and told me she bought a HUGE amount of Joel Lewis books I made the mistake of telling too damn many other poets and it was pretty much picked clean by the time I got there, GEESH! Fucking vultures! But I Love them, they're my friends! BUT! I was fortunate to buy an amazing (and very rare) Christopher Dewdney book from your collection! Thanks again for the note on Ceravolo! Sounds like maybe a dream is coming true soon! And I don't care if this sounds shallow of me, but I hope the hell there's some good photos of him included! He was one handsome looking fellow, GRRRR! In fact there was that naked poets calendar, you know the one I'm talking about? Aren't you in it? Maybe not, but I only saw it once, briefly, and I looked for Joseph Ceravolo, only to be disappointed! But Ted Berrigan was in there, that was cool. Who else? Ah, they need to reprint that thing! It was great! Poets have all kinds of funny looking penises, just like everyone else, so what's the harm, right? Was there ever a calendar of naked women poets I wonder? I don't think so, but maybe I'm wrong. CAConrad http://PhillySound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 11:41:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: CA Conrad Subject: NOTHING BUT RED, an anthology in response to Du'a Khalil Aswad's honor killing to benefit EQUALITY NOW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline The AMAZING Maira Raha is sending out a call for submissions for this new anthology benefiting the human rights organization EQUALITY NOW, press release, etc., up on The PhillySound (yesterday's date): http://PhillySound.blogspot.com And if you haven't checked out Maria Raha's book CINDERELLA'S BIG SCORE, do so! CAConrad http://PhillySound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 11:03:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William Allegrezza Subject: Collaborative Poetry in Chicago This Tuesday MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Come to Series A this Tuesday for a collaborative reading of Chicago poets! Series A, Tuesday, August 21, 7:00-8:00 p.m. at the Hyde Park Art Center (5020 S. Cornell, Chicago, IL ) For more information, visit www.moriapoetry.com/seriesa.html BYOB! Chicago Collaborative Reading featuring: Simone Muench Lina ramona Vitkauskas William Allegrezza Garin Cycholl Tim Yu Kristy Odelius Ray Bianchi Simone Muench's second book Lampblack & Ash received the Kathryn A. Morton Prize (Sarabande, 2005). Her latest chapbooks are Orange Girl (dancing girl press) and Sonoluminescence (with Bill Allegrezza, Dusie Press). She has poems appearing in Iowa Review, Denver Quarterly, LUNA and the anthology The City Visible: Chicago Poetry for the New Century. She directs the Writing Program at Lewis University, serves on the board for Switchback Books, and is an editor for Sharkforum. Tim Yu's collection Journey to the West, which won the Vincent Chin Memorial Chapbook Prize from Kundiman, appeared as part of the Winter 2006 issue of Barrow Street. His work has recently appeared in Seven Corners, 2nd Avenue Poetry, and The City Visible: Chicago Poetry for the New Century. He teaches at the University of Toronto, lives in Toronto and Chicago, and sometimes blogs at http://tympan.blogspot.com. William Allegrezza teaches and writes from his base in Chicago. His poems, articles and reviews have been published in several countries including the U.S., Holland, the Czech Republic and Australia, as well as in several online journals. His chapbooks, e-books, and books include Lingo, The Vicious Bunny Translations, Covering Over, Temporal Nomads, Ladders in July, Ishmael Among the Bushes, and In The Weaver's Valley. He is the editor of Moria Poetry, a journal dedicated to experimental poetry and poetics, and the editor-in-chief of Cracked Slab Books, which just released the The City Visible: Chicago Poetry for the New Century. His latest book is Fragile Replacements (Meritage Press, 2007). Raymond L Bianchi lived for most of the 1990's in Latin America in Brazil and Bolivia. A native of suburban Chicago and the child of Italian Immigrants, he worked in international publishing since 1996. His poetry has appeared or is upcoming in Antennae, Near South, Tin Lustre Mobile, 26, Moria, Red River Review, Sentence, Bird Dog, Literatura e Cultura and his essays have appeared in the Economist and the Financial Times. He is the section editor of the fall 2006 issue of Aufgabe, which includes a translation section of contemporary Brazilian poetry that he translated. His book book Circular Descent was published by Blaze Vox Press in 2004, and a chapbook, The American Master, was published by Moria Books in 2006. He is the publisher of Cracked Slab Books in Chicago and edits the website chicagopostmodernpoetry.com. Kristy Odelius is a poet and Assistant Professor of English at North Park University (Chicago, IL) where she teaches poetry and 19th century British literature. She is a co-founder of Near South, a Chicago-based journal of innovative writing. Her poems, essays and reviews have appeared or are forthcoming in Notre Dame Review, Chicago Review, Combo, Versal, ACM, Pavement Saw, La Petite Zine, Diagram and others. Garin Cycholl's recent work has appeared with Admit2, Rain Taxi, Exquisite Corpse, and Seven Corners. He is author of Blue Mound to 161 (winner of the 2003 Transcontinental Prize), Nightbirds, and the forthcoming Rafetown Georgics. He teaches writing and literature at the University of Illinois at Chicago and is a visiting lecturer at the University of Chicago. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 12:11:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: Re: Joe Ceravolo In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70708180759o16e41570ib1c921a1ec32894b@mail.gmail.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit As far as I know, the only printing of *Fits of Dawn* by Joe Ceravolo that exists is the "C Press* book published- as a mimeo book - by Ted Berrigan in 1965. I'm one of the lucky ones that has a copy- which I bought (now to his stated dismay) from Steve Clay a number of years ago. Since Berrigan obviously created this mimeo manuscript himself by hand- having read it many times, I often wonder how much of this book consists of -fascinating- and possibly brilliant- mistypings by Berrigan. Hopefully, someday, scholars will have the opportunity to do that all-important job of checking all the manuscripts against the one existing book we have. On 8/18/07 10:59 AM, "Anny Ballardini" wrote: > Thank you for the image you are giving us of Ceravolo. > > I would like to introduce another poet of Italo-American origins, probably > more forgotten than Ceravolo whose poetry has lately been revisited and made > available to potential readers through Dennis Barone: Emanuel Carnevali. > Thanks to Barone I opened a page for him on the Poets' Corner: > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules/poemreviews/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=260 > > > > > On 8/18/07, Joel Lewis wrote: >> >> I knew Joe Ceravolo in the last seven years of his life. My fellow jrsey >> poets and I had him read in our reading series and published him in our >> magazines -- in a period when many of his NYC friends thought he had stopped >> being an active poet. My anthology of NJ peots is co-dedicated to him. >> >> The issue around Joe's posthumous poetry career are old news. After his >> death, a number of younger poets offered to run work in magazines and even >> do collections, but were rebuffed by the estate. Not that Joe's work was >> easy to find when he was alive--Millenium Dust was barely availible even >> from the publication date, INRI (which was not included in the selected) was >> done in a small run and Spring in this world of poor mutts only seemed to >> start ciculating at the time of his death. >> >> I had heard stories that Rosemary (who under the name Mona Da Vinci is an >> important pioneer of feminist based art) initially resisted the Coffeehouse >> selected -- she was hoping that a major commercial would do the book... & >> who wouldn't want to have that for Joe who barely had any recognition beyond >> a devoted few. >> >> I remember him reading at a Wm. carlos Williams festival in rutherford. >> Daniel Halpern had the audience in stiches laughing at his numerous >> refrences to suburban lawn care products. Joe followed and actaly read each >> of his poems twice "so you can better understand them" he said --he could >> have read each 10 times as the audience seemed totaly tuned out. >> >> I do hope that Fits of Dawn and his uncollected work see print. And I am >> heartened that despite the scarcity of his work he has a fan base >> among a whole group of younger writers. >> >> Joel Lewis >> ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 11:29:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: creative writing praxis In-Reply-To: <46C7078F.5010101@umn.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've looked around for them too, without success. The Bernstein page of "experiments" are still there at epc, however. Hal "I have the feeling that we are getting nowhere, and that is a pleasure." --John Cage Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Aug 18, 2007, at 9:51 AM, Maria Damon wrote: > b mayer's list of exercises used to be available on her author site > on epc, but i can't find it anywhere online anymore. can anyone > help? it's indispensible! not just for writing classes but when i > teach her work, i want to be able to refer students to it, it's so > inspiring. > thanks, md > Ruth Lepson wrote: >> Mayer's aren;t exers. in the usual sense but ways to shake people >> out of >> slumber & therefore terrific. Things like Write when you don;t >> feel like it, >> Write before falling asleep, Write at the same time every day. >> >> >> On 8/15/07 9:26 AM, "J.P. Craig" wrote: >> >> >>> I don't know if this fits, but there's the Palgrave Poetry and >>> Pedagogy that came out recently. I've found it interesting. I'm >>> going >>> to be presenting with some friends from Iowa at the Midwest Writing >>> Center Association conference this fall on using writing center >>> techniques to teach creative writing. Specifically, we're trying to >>> find and discuss alternative to the "workshop" model that we found >>> lacking because, in my case, it was far too limiting on students' >>> output, too product-oriented and normative. >>> >>> I'd really be interested in the lists you've generated so far, both >>> of the helpful and unhelpful materials. >>> >>> Are these MA comps exams? Or is it some sort of certification exam >>> aborning (as if an MA comps exam isn't, I suppose). >>> >>> I'm really interested in this primarily because I like teaching >>> writing, and though I tend to be paid for teaching comp or ESL, I >>> like encouraging and assisting young creative writers too. I'm also >>> interested because my M.F.A. experience was unhelpful to my writing. >>> I found the PhD in literature to be much more helpful to my writing, >>> but then again I'm a sort of bookish person and not particularly >>> successful as a professional poet. >>> >>> I wonder if things like Bernadette Mayer's experiment or other lists >>> of procedures could be considered as pedagogical theory for poets? >>> Are books like Koch's Wishes Lies and Dreams, though aimed at >>> children, be considered useful pedagogical theory for us (maybe too >>> East Coast for your needs?). I guess this move may be a tired one, >>> but it's still useful: I'm asking if this is an opportunity to >>> broaden what we might consider a poetry pedagogy text. Does it >>> overlap literature; can we include A Test of Poetry, How to Write, >>> and so on? >>> >>> On Aug 14, 2007, at 12:27 AM, Susan Webster Schultz wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Increasingly, MA students at UH are asking to take exams in >>>> Creative Writing Pedagogy, and increasingly >>>> I'm being asked to be an examiner in this field. As to what that >>>> field might be, I'll perhaps know better after >>>> conducting a directed reading with 5 or so grad and undergrad >>>> students this coming semester. But my impression >>>> is that the "literature" on the subject is flimsy, east coast >>>> centered, mono-cultural, and generally speaking, pretty >>>> unhelpful. >>>> >>>> I did find a decent introduction to the field here: >>>> >>>> _The Elephants Teach: Creative Writing Since 1880_, by David G. >>>> Myers. >>>> I also like, as a tool, Hazel Smith's _The Writing Experiment_, >>>> though I confess I haven't yet used it to teach by. >>>> >>>> But my strong sense is that there needs to me more and better >>>> writing on the subject, because if the lists I'm seeing >>>> are any indication, the field is pretty anemic. >>>> >>>> aloha, Susan >>>> >>>> who is watching: >>>> >>>> http://www.goes.noaa.gov/ha2.html >>>> >>> JP Craig >>> http://jpcraig.blogspot.com/ >>> ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 10:27:03 -0700 Reply-To: bowering@sfu.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Heirs, was Dear Buffalo List, a message from Rosemary Ceravolo on her husband Jospeh Ceravolo's 'Fits of Dawn' Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary MIME-Version: 1.0 On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 12:24:26 -0400 POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU wrote: > > > Let's broaden this a bit. I've dealt with a lot of descendants of > poets. It's sometimes not a pretty picture. Many do an excellent job. > Others know nothing about poetry or publishing and could care less, Or worse: there are some who could NOT care less! gb ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 11:48:05 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: J Crockett Subject: listenlight new issue 11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Goodbye Modern Age" coming soon http://listenlight.net __________________________ Adjunct? Ask about our special plans. Chinese? We offer a full range of video conferencing solutions. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 14:53:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cris cheek Subject: Re: Collaborative Poetry in Chicago This Tuesday In-Reply-To: <7ebc05130708180903sa966d14s7bdc4e8ca3360f54@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline this looks terrific William can u say a little more about collaboration? I'm not clear how that is going on . . .other than ppl are sharing a reading . . .so can you say more very interested ofc in collaboration and models of collaboration On 8/18/07, William Allegrezza wrote: > Come to Series A this Tuesday for a collaborative reading of Chicago poets! > > Series A, Tuesday, August 21, 7:00-8:00 p.m. > at the Hyde Park Art Center (5020 S. Cornell, Chicago, IL ) > > For more information, visit www.moriapoetry.com/seriesa.html > > BYOB! > > Chicago Collaborative Reading featuring: > Simone Muench > Lina ramona Vitkauskas > William Allegrezza > Garin Cycholl > Tim Yu > Kristy Odelius > Ray Bianchi > > Simone Muench's second book Lampblack & Ash received the Kathryn A. Morton > Prize (Sarabande, 2005). Her latest chapbooks are Orange Girl (dancing girl > press) and Sonoluminescence (with Bill Allegrezza, Dusie Press). She has > poems appearing in Iowa Review, Denver Quarterly, LUNA and the anthology The > City Visible: Chicago Poetry for the New Century. She directs the Writing > Program at Lewis University, serves on the board for Switchback Books, and > is an editor for Sharkforum. > > Tim Yu's collection Journey to the West, which won the Vincent Chin Memorial > Chapbook Prize from Kundiman, appeared as part of the Winter 2006 issue of > Barrow Street. His work has recently appeared in Seven Corners, 2nd Avenue > Poetry, and The City Visible: Chicago Poetry for the New Century. He teaches > at the University of Toronto, lives in Toronto and Chicago, and sometimes > blogs at http://tympan.blogspot.com. > > William Allegrezza teaches and writes from his base in Chicago. His poems, > articles and reviews have been published in several countries including the > U.S., Holland, the Czech Republic and Australia, as well as in several > online journals. His chapbooks, e-books, and books include Lingo, The > Vicious Bunny Translations, Covering Over, Temporal Nomads, Ladders in July, > Ishmael Among the Bushes, and In The Weaver's Valley. He is the editor of > Moria Poetry, a journal dedicated to experimental poetry and poetics, and > the editor-in-chief of Cracked Slab Books, which just released the The City > Visible: Chicago Poetry for the New Century. His latest book is Fragile > Replacements (Meritage Press, 2007). > > Raymond L Bianchi lived for most of the 1990's in Latin America in Brazil > and Bolivia. A native of suburban Chicago and the child of Italian > Immigrants, he worked in international publishing since 1996. His poetry has > appeared or is upcoming in Antennae, Near South, Tin Lustre Mobile, 26, > Moria, Red River Review, Sentence, Bird Dog, Literatura e Cultura and his > essays have appeared in the Economist and the Financial Times. He is the > section editor of the fall 2006 issue of Aufgabe, which includes a > translation section of contemporary Brazilian poetry that he translated. His > book book Circular Descent was published by Blaze Vox Press in 2004, and a > chapbook, The American Master, was published by Moria Books in 2006. He is > the publisher of Cracked Slab Books in Chicago and edits the website > chicagopostmodernpoetry.com. > > Kristy Odelius is a poet and Assistant Professor of English at North Park > University (Chicago, IL) where she teaches poetry and 19th century British > literature. She is a co-founder of Near South, a Chicago-based journal of > innovative writing. Her poems, essays and reviews have appeared or are > forthcoming in Notre Dame Review, Chicago Review, Combo, Versal, ACM, > Pavement Saw, La Petite Zine, Diagram and others. > > Garin Cycholl's recent work has appeared with Admit2, Rain Taxi, Exquisite > Corpse, and Seven Corners. He is author of Blue Mound to 161 (winner of the > 2003 Transcontinental Prize), Nightbirds, and the forthcoming Rafetown > Georgics. He teaches writing and literature at the University of Illinois > at Chicago and is a visiting lecturer at the University of Chicago. > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 16:07:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: creative writing praxis In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline perhaps the people who redesigned the poetry project website could give us a clue? -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly@gmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 16:20:41 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: Joe Ceravolo In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline there was a southern california poetry swimsuit calendar a while back which I refused to appear in; it is a little different to be a younger female poet and asked to be in such a thing, and it not being as political and more a funny novelty for people who are quite different from those who would normally appear in such publications eleanor antin's greek sculpture photo project is GREAT -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly@gmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 13:15:02 +0900 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Hugh Nicoll Subject: Re: creative writing praxis In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hi all, Fascinating discussion. I've found two versions of Bernadette Mayer's experiments googling: http://spinelessbooks.com/mayer/index.html and http://www.factoryschool.org/handbook/creative/experiments.html HN On 8/19/07, Catherine Daly wrote: > perhaps the people who redesigned the poetry project website could > give us a clue? > > -- > All best, > Catherine Daly > c.a.b.daly@gmail.com > -- Hugh Nicoll JALT, ld-sig co-coordinator http://hughnicoll.org/blog/ hnicoll@gmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 01:19:46 -0500 Reply-To: dgodston@sbcglobal.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Godston Subject: creative writing praxis In-Reply-To: <18e6c0c00708182115o2d8ebe8dx4f75eb1e68bb699f@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hugh,=20 Those are good leads. Here're more good sources:=20 http://www.writing.upenn.edu/bernstein/experiments.html http://www.rtqe.net/ObliqueStrategies/ http://www.spinelessbooks.com/20/essays/oulipo.html http://www.growndodo.com/wordplay/oulipo/queneau.html' Dan -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Hugh Nicoll Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2007 11:15 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: creative writing praxis Hi all, Fascinating discussion. I've found two versions of Bernadette Mayer's experiments googling: http://spinelessbooks.com/mayer/index.html and http://www.factoryschool.org/handbook/creative/experiments.html HN ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 12:57:55 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nicholas Karavatos Subject: Re: Are the Simpsons Playing in Baghdad? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed On television *The Simpsons* can be watched in the Middle East on both the Star Network (nightly) and Showtime Arabia. You can also purchase the season collections in stores. As for the new film, it is playing all around the GCC. Nicholas Karavatos Dept of Language & Literature American University of Sharjah PO Box 26666 Sharjah United Arab Emirates >From: "W.B. Keckler" >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Are the Simpsons Playing in Baghdad? >Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 20:33:06 EDT > >I will have to ask some of the soldiers on Yahoo if the Simpsons are >playing >in Baghdad. I hope so. Right next to the Crabtree & Evelyn & right next to >where the bomb landed & the caiman glint in the eye of the future right >next >to that... > >today on Joe Brainard's Pyjamas some new poems and some new scanner >art...feel free to comment me all you want though I do have a hall monitor >who looks >like the lady from Throw Momma from the Train...she tells me if it's ok to >hit "publish" & i always listen to her...never argue with a woman who irons > her >face and has three crows in her throat.... > >A MAN AND HIS PERFORMING MONKEY DROWNING >IN A BRIEF ATLANTIC THUNDERSTORM >IN 1564 > > >(for Philip Nikolayev) > > >joy is so lost >loss is so natural >nature is so unnaturing >loss is so unanswerable, isn't it > > (to read more stop in at _http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/_ >(http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/) _________________________________________________________________ Messenger Café — open for fun 24/7. Hot games, cool activities served daily. Visit now. http://cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_AugHMtagline ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 08:48:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: creative writing praxis In-Reply-To: <18e6c0c00708182115o2d8ebe8dx4f75eb1e68bb699f@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit thanks! this is invaluable info. Hugh Nicoll wrote: > Hi all, > > Fascinating discussion. I've found two versions of Bernadette Mayer's > experiments googling: > > http://spinelessbooks.com/mayer/index.html > > and > > http://www.factoryschool.org/handbook/creative/experiments.html > > HN > > On 8/19/07, Catherine Daly wrote: > >> perhaps the people who redesigned the poetry project website could >> give us a clue? >> >> -- >> All best, >> Catherine Daly >> c.a.b.daly@gmail.com >> >> > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 09:17:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: creative writing praxis In-Reply-To: <18e6c0c00708182115o2d8ebe8dx4f75eb1e68bb699f@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Charles Bernstein's version of writing experiments is here. At first glance it looks to be a different set tho Mayer is acknowledged as being the inspiration for the list. http://writing.upenn.edu/bernstein/experiments.html On Aug 18, 2007, at 11:15 PM, Hugh Nicoll wrote: > Hi all, > > Fascinating discussion. I've found two versions of Bernadette Mayer's > experiments googling: > > http://spinelessbooks.com/mayer/index.html > > and > > http://www.factoryschool.org/handbook/creative/experiments.html > > HN ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 10:41:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ed Friedman Subject: Bernadette's lists Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Dear Maria and others, Here's the list of experiments and journal ideas that used to be available on the Poetry Project site. Best, Ed Friedman ----- Bernadette Mayer's List of Journal Ideas: Journals of: * dreams * food * finances * writing ideas * love * ideas for architects * city design ideas * beautiful and/or ugly sights * a history of one's own writing life, written daily * reading/music/art, etc. encountered each day * rooms * elaborations on weather * people one sees-description * subway, bus, car or other trips (e.g., the same bus trip written about every day) * pleasures and/or pain * life's everyday machinery: phones, stoves, computers, etc. * answering machine messages * round or rectangular things, other shapes * color * light * daily changes, e.g., a journal of one's desk, table, etc. * the body and its parts * clocks/time-keeping * tenant-landlord situations * telephone calls (taped?) * skies * dangers * mail * sounds * coincidences & connections * times of solitude Other journal ideas: * Write once a day in minute detail about one thing * Write every day at the same time, e.g. lunch poems, waking ideas, etc. * Write minimally: one line or sentence per day * Create a collaborative journal: musical notation and poetry; two writers alternating days; two writing about the same subject each day, etc. * Instead of using a book, write on paper and put it up on the wall (public journal). * and so on ... Bernadette Mayer's Writing Experiments * Pick a word or phrase at random, let mind play freely around it until a few ideas have come up, then seize on one and begin to write. Try this with a non- connotative word, like "so" etc. * Systematically eliminate the use of certain kinds of words or phrases from a piece of writing: eliminate all adjectives from a poem of your own, or take out all words beginning with 's' in Shakespeare's sonnets. * Rewrite someone else's writing. Experiment with theft and plagiarism. * Systematically derange the language: write a work consisting only of prepositional phrases, or, add a gerund to every line of an already existing work. * Get a group of words, either randomly selected or thought up, then form these words (only) into a piece of writing-whatever the words allow. Let them demand their own form, or, use some words in a predetermined way. Design words. * Eliminate material systematically from a piece of your own writing until it is "ultimately" reduced, or, read or write it backwards, line by line or word by word. Read a novel backwards. * Using phrases relating to one subject or idea, write about another, pushing metaphor and simile as far as you can. For example, use science terms to write about childhood or philosophic language to describe a shirt. * Take an idea, anything that interests you, or an object, then spend a few days looking and noticing, perhaps making notes on what comes up about that idea, or, try to create a situation or surrounding where everything that happens is in relation. * Construct a poem as if the words were three-dimensional objects to be handled in space. Print them on large cards or bricks if necessary. * Write as you think, as close as you can come to this, that is, put pen to paper and don't stop. Experiment writing fast and writing slow. * Attempt tape recorder work, that is, recording without a text, perhaps at specific times. * Make notes on what happens or occurs to you for a limited amount of time, then make something of it in writing. * Get someone to write for you, pretending they are you. * Write in a strict form, or, transform prose into a poetic form. * Write a poem that reflects another poem, as in a mirror. * Read or write a story or myth, then put it aside and, trying to remember it, write it five or ten times at intervals from memory. Or, make a work out of continuously saying, in a column or list, one sentence or line, over and over in different ways, until you get it "right." * Make a pattern of repetitions. * Take an already written work of your own and insert, at random or by choice, a paragraph or section from, for example, a psychology book or a seed catalogue. Then study the possibilities of rearranging this work or rewriting the "source." * Experiment with writing in every person and tense every day. * Explore the possibilities of lists, puzzles, riddles, dictionaries, almanacs, etc. Consult the thesaurus where categories for the word "word" include: word as news, word as message, word as information, word as story, word as order or command, word as vocable, word as instruction, promise, vow, contract. * Write what cannot be written; for example, compose an index. * The possibilities of synesthesia in relation to language and words: the word and the letter as sensations, colors evoked by letters, sensations caused by the sound of a word as apart from its meaning, etc. And the effect of this phenomenon on you; for example, write in the water, on a moving vehicle. * Attempt writing in a state of mind that seems least congenial. * Consider word and letter as forms-the concretistic distortion of a text, a mutiplicity of o's or ea's, or a pleasing visual arrangement: "the mill pond of chill doubt." * Do experiments with sensory memory: record all sense images that remain from breakfast, study which senses engage you, escape you. * Write, taking off from visual projections, whether mental or mechanical, without thought to the word in the ordinary sense, no craft. * Make writing experiments over a long period of time. For example, plan how much you will write for a particular work each day, perhaps one word or one page. * Write on a piece of paper where something is already printed or written. * Attempt to eliminate all connotation from a piece of writing and vice versa. * Experiment with writing in a group, collaborative work: a group writing individually off of each other's work over a long period of time in the same room; a group contributing to the same work, sentence by sentence or line by line; one writer being fed information and ideas while the other writes; writing, leaving instructions for another writer to fill in what you can't describe; compiling a book or work structured by your own language around the writings of others; or a group working and writing off of each other's dream writing. * Dream work: record dreams daily, experiment with translation or transcription of dream thought, attempt to approach the tense and incongruity appropriate to the dream, work with the dream until a poem or song emerges from it, use the dream as an alert form of the mind's activity or consciousness, consider the dream a problem-solving device, change dream characters into fictional characters, accept dream's language as a gift. * Structure a poem or prose writing according to city streets, miles, walks, drives. For example: Take a fourteen-block walk, writing one line per block to create a sonnet; choose a city street familiar to you, walk it, make notes and use them to create a work; take a long walk with a group of writers, observe, make notes and create works, then compare them; take a long walk or drive-write one line or sentence per mile. Variations on this. * The uses of journals. Keep a journal that is restricted to one set of ideas, for instance, a food or dream journal, a journal that is only written in when it is raining, a journal of ideas about writing, a weather journal. Remember that journals do not have to involve "good" writing-they are to be made use of. Simple one-line entries like "No snow today" can be inspiring later. Have 3 or 4 journals going at once, each with a different purpose. Create a journal that is meant to be shared and commented on by another writer--leave half of each page blank for the comments of the other. * Type out a Shakespeare sonnet or other poem you would like to learn about/imitate double-spaced on a page. Rewrite it in between the lines. * Find the poems you think are the worst poems ever written, either by your own self or other poets. Study them, then write a bad poem. * Choose a subject you would like to write "about." Then attempt to write a piece that absolutely avoids any relationship to that subject. Get someone to grade you. * Write a series of titles for as yet unwritten poems or proses. * Work with a number of objects, moving them around on a field or surface-describe their shifting relationships, resonances, associations. Or, write a series of poems that have only to do with what you see in the place where you most often write. Or, write a poem in each room of your house or apartment. Experiment with doing this in the home you grew up in, if possible. * Write a bestiary (a poem about real and mythical animals). * Write five short expressions of the most adamant anger; make a work out of them. * Write a work gazing into a mirror without using the pronoun I. * A shocking experiment: Rip pages out of books at random (I guess you could xerox them) and study them as if they were a collection of poetic/literary material. Use this method on your old high school or college notebooks, if possible, then create an epistemological work based on the randomly chosen notebook pages. * Meditate on a word, sound or list of ideas before beginning to write. * Take a book of poetry you love and make a list, going through it poem by poem, of the experiments, innovations, methods, intentions, etc. involved in the creation of the works in the book. * Write what is secret. Then write what is shared. Experiment with writing each in two different ways: veiled language, direct language. * Write a soothing novel in twelve short paragraphs. * Write a work that attempts to include the names of all the physical contents of the terrestrial world that you know. * Take a piece of prose writing and turn it into poetic lines. Then, without remembering that you were planning to do this, make a poem of the first and last words of each line to see what happens. For instance, the lines (from Einstein) * When at the reception * Of sense-impressions, memory pictures * Emerge this is not yet thinking * And when. . . * Would become: * When reception * Of pictures * Emerge thinking * And when * And so on. Form the original prose, poetic lines, and first-and-last word poem into three columns on a page. Study their relationships. * If you have an answering machine, record all messages received for one month, then turn them into a best-selling novella. * Write a macaronic poem (making use of as many languages as you are conversant with). * Attempt to speak for a day only in questions; write only in questions. * Attempt to become in a state where the mind is flooded with ideas; attempt to keep as many thoughts in mind simultaneously as possible. Then write without looking at the page, typescript or computer screen (This is "called" invisible writing). * Choose a period of time, perhaps five or nine months. Every day, write a letter that will never be sent to a person who does or does not exist, or to a number of people who do or do not exist. Create a title for each letter and don't send them. Pile them up as a book. * Etymological work. Experiment with investigating the etymologies of all words that interest you, including your own name(s). Approaches to etymologies: Take a work you've already written, preferably something short, look up the etymological meanings of every word in that work including words like "the" and "a". Study the histories of the words used, then rewrite the work on the basis of the etymological information found out. Another approach: Build poems and writings form the etymological families based on the Indo-European language constructs, for instance, the BHEL family: bulge, bowl, belly, boulder, billow, ball, balloon; or the OINO family: one, alone, lonely, unique, unite, unison, union; not to speak of one of the GEN families: kin, king, kindergarten, genteel, gender, generous, genius, genital, gingerly, pregnant, cognate, renaissance, and innate! * Write a brief bibliography of the science and philosophy texts that interest you. Create a file of newspaper articles that seem to relate to the chances of writing poetry. * Write the poem: Ways of Making Love. List them. * Diagram a sentence in the old-fashioned way. If you don't know how, I'll be happy to show you; if you do know how, try a really long sentence, for instance from Melville. * Turn a list of the objects that have something to do with a person who has died into a poem or poem form, in homage to that person. * Write the same poem over and over again, in different forms, until you are weary. Another experiment: Set yourself the task of writing for four hours at a time, perhaps once, twice or seven times a week. Don't stop until hunger and/or fatigue take over. At the very least, always set aside a four-hour period once a month in which to write. This is always possible and will result in one book of poems or prose writing for each year. Then we begin to know something. * Attempt as a writer to win the Nobel Prize in Science by finding out how thought becomes language, or does not. * Take a traditional text like the pledge of allegiance to the flag. For every noun, replace it with one that is seventh or ninth down from the original one in the dictionary. For instance, the word "honesty" would be replaced by "honey dew melon." Investigate what happens; different dictionaries will produce different results. * Attempt to write a poem or series of poems that will change the world. Does everything written or dreamed of do this? * Write occasional poems for weddings, for rivers, for birthdays, for other poets' beauty, for movie stars maybe, for the anniversaries of all kinds of loving meetings, for births, for moments of knowledge, for deaths. Writing for the "occasion" is part of our purpose as poets in being-this is our work in the community wherein we belong and work as speakers for others. * Experiment with every traditional form, so as to know it. * Write poems and proses in which you set yourself the task of using particular words, chosen at random like the spelling exercises of children: intelligence, amazing, weigh, weight, camel, camel's, foresight, through, threw, never, now, snow, rein, rain. Make a story of that! * Plan, structure, and write a long work. Consider what is the work now needed by the culture to cure and exact even if by accident the great exorcism of its 1998 sort-of- seeming-not-being. What do we need? What is the poem of the future? * What is communicable now? What more is communicable? * Compose a list of familiar phrases, or phrases that have stayed in your mind for a long time--from songs, from poems, from conversation: * What's in a name? That which we call a rose * By any other name would smell as sweet * (Romeo and Juliet) * A rose is a rose is a rose * (Gertrude Stein) * A raisin in the sun * (Langston Hughes) * The king was in the counting house * Counting out his money. . . * (Nursery rhyme) * I sing the body electric. . . * These United States. . . * (Walt Whitman) * A thing of beauty is a joy forever * (Keats) * (I summon up) remembrance of things past * (WS) * Ask not for whom the bell tolls * It tolls for thee * (Donne) * Look homeward, Angel * (Milton) * For fools rush in where angels fear to tread * (Pope) * All's well that ends well * (WS) * I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness * (Allen Ginsberg) * I think therefore I am * (Descartes) * It was the best of times, it was the worst of times,. . . * (Dickens) * brave new world has such people in it * (Shakespeare, The Tempest, later Huxley) * Odi et amo (I hate and I love) * (Catullus) * Water water everywhere * Nor any drop to drink * (Coleridge) * Curiouser and curiouser * (Alice in Wonderland) * Don't worry be happy. Here's a little song I wrote. . . * Write the longest most beautiful sentence you can imagine-make it be a whole page. * Set yourself the task of writing in a way you've never written before, no matter who you are. * What is the value of autobiography? * Attempt to write in a way that's never been written before. * Invent a new form. * Write a perfect poem. * Write a work that intersperses love with landlords. * In a poem, list what you know. * Address the poem to the reader. * Write household poems-about cooking, shopping, eating and sleeping. * Write dream collabortations in the lune form. * Write poems that only make use of the words included in Basic English. * Attempt to write about jobs and how they affect the writing of poetry. * Write while being read to from science texts, or, write while being read to by one's lover from any text. * Trade poems with others and do not consider them your own. * Exercises in style: Write twenty-five or more different versions of one event. * Review the statement: "What is happening to me, allowing for lies and exaggerations which I try to avoid, goes into my poems." Jonathan Mayhew's Writing Experiments (with apologies to Bernadette Mayer) 1. Make a list of writing experiments. 2. Write a poem in which you include some reference, explicit or implicit, to everyone you know who has committed suicide. 3. Write poems designed for a particular magazine (a la Jack Spicer), even if this magazine doesn't publish poetry. Send the poems to the magazine as you write them until they either publish you or tell you to stop. 4. If you are an academic, give an academic paper composed entirely of heroic couplets. Don't tell anyone what you are doing. 5. "Ghost-write" poems for politicians or celebrities. 6. Write non-stop for 6 months, in every waking hour not devoted to any other necessary activity. 7. Compose a poem employing as many metaphors or examples as possible derived from Wittegenstein's Philosophical Investigations. 8. Read only poetry written before 1800 for a year. See if your writing has changed. If it has changed for the better, do the same with 1700. 9. Take a book of poetry by someone else and compose poetic responses to every single poem. Try this with a poet you hate and then with a poet you love. Try writing your poems directly in the book, if you can stand to deface it. 10. Invent "heteronimos" a la Pessoa. 11. Compose a "Japanese Poetic Diary" 12. Write an autobiography, but including only events having to do with particular "subjects" (cooking, jazz, landlords, shoes). 13. Write the eleventh "Duino Elegy." 14. Write a book of poetry in which the letter B never appears. See if anyone notices. 15. Parody your own style. 16. Stage elaborate contests (sestina contests, memorizing contests, rhyming contests). 17. Invent multiple ways of "gambling" on poetry (e.g. on the contests devised above). 18. Create a "neo-classical" style that is as regular and normative as Racine. The vocabulary should be fairly limited, the syntax limpid, the versification utterly smooth. Use this style as your normal mode of communication as much as you can get away with. 19. Try to get non-poets to collaborate with you on grandiose poetic projects. Test your persuasive powers. 20. Convince famous painters to illustrate your work or paint your portrait, or composers to set your poems to music. 21. Practice thinking in complete sentences. Do not write these down. 22. Be a Platonic "name-giver" of the type described in the Cratylus. Work at giving things their exact or "proper" names. Then practice with "misnomers." 23. See if Wittgenstein was right: try to invent a "private language" for your sensations. 24. Adopt a variety of social "identities" in your writing (race, ethnicity, class, sexual identity). However, avoid any explicit "identifying" reference in the poem itself (e.g. don't use the word "barrio" in your chicano poems). 25. Invent a private slang (a la Lester Young); attempt to get as many people as you can to use the words you coin. Don't use these words in your writing; rather, conceive of the invention of this language as an independent poetic activity. 26. Write "vocalese lyrics" to a recorded jazz solo. 27. Practice speaking in blank verse as "naturally" as possible. 28. Create your own avant-garde movement; make sure you officially dissolve the movement after 6 months or a year. 29. Invent an imaginary city, complete with geography, history, architecture, prominent citizens, etc... Keep a sort of "bible" of all the information you compile. Then write poems set in this city. 30. Write nothing but sestinas and pantoums for a month. Then "cannabilize" them, using the best lines to write other poems ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 08:14:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dee Morris Subject: Bernadette Mayers' list of experiments In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Hey Maria, Here they are: --Bernadette Mayer's list: http://languageisavirus.com/ articles/articles.php? subaction=showcomments&id=1099111106&archive&start_from&ucat& Dee ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 08:19:26 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alexander Jorgensen Subject: Tibetan Writing Collective - But, well, who really cares? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received some wonderful feedback and prompt replies. And a special thank you (and you know who you are). By week's end, I will send a reply with address and detailed information related to the project. As said, I, and with lots of support, including the active participation of both Kathup Tsering and Santanu Bandyopadhyay, and this is a cooperative matter, which is to say that none are gonna receive accolades for doing what is right, are in the midst of planting the seeds, as they say, of a writer's collective in the midst of the Himalayas. And as for me, to be honest, this is being done at my own peril, not to be dramatic - but one can't believe in Tom Paine and pluralism without actually putting one's belief on the line (the word more invidious than any bullets). With 2008 approaching, and the need ever present, we are looking for those who are willing to donate a single book to this cause (postage included) - and that seed being planted towards the development of a reference library to accompany equipment already donated towards the formation of a support center providing access to those in greatest of need. I am talking about those who, one might argue, have more important things to say and offer than, say, many of those living Stateside or in Europe, and most of whom are writing for reasons far more important than those engrossed in typical "tea culture" - or the newest fad in Brooklyn or Chicago poetics (most of which both scholars and time won't bother to honor). No insult intended, be sure. But when you cross into Nepal, Mainland gun sites planted on you, barefoot and frostbitten, entering what is really your cultural homeland, because the Mandarin and Tibetans have little in common, leaving family and so-and-so behind, and write - well, then. A book, just a book, postage and no possibility of tax break, is what is asked and the return only in thanks. Please. Back channel for email. Again, those who have already contacted me will receive a reply by week's end. Just returned to China. Regards, Alexander Jorgensen -- Marcus Aurelius: "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 11:23:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tarpaulin Sky Press & Journal Subject: PRE-ORDER Joyelle McSweeney's _Nylund, the Sarcographer_ & SAVE $ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Now available for pre-order: $2 off the list price + free shipping NYLUND, THE SARCOGRAPHER by Joyelle McSweeney Tarpaulin Sky Press ISBN: 978-0-9779019-4-4 Fiction. 5"x7", 132 pages Ships October 1, 2007 http://www.tarpaulinsky.com/Press/McSweeney/index.html NYLUND, THE SARCOGRAPHER is a baroque noir. Its eponymous protagonist is a loner who tries to comprehend everything from the outside, like a sarcophagus, and with analogously ornate results. The method by which the book was written, and by which Nylund experiences the world, is thus called sarcography. Sarcography is like negative capability on steroids; this ultra-susceptibility entangles Nylund in both a murder plot and a plot regarding his missing sister, Daisy. As the murder plot places Nylund in increasing physical danger, his sensuous memories become more present than the present itself. If Vladimir Nabokov wanted to seduce Nancy Drew, he'd read her NYLUND one dark afternoon over teacups of whiskey. Welcome to fiction's new femme fatale, Joyelle McSweeney. -Kate Bernheimer, editor of Fairy Tale Review and the author of The Complete Tales of Ketzia Gold and The Complete Tales of Merry Gold If Wallace Stevens had written a novel it might have come close to Joyelle McSweeney's NYLUND, THE SARCOGRAPHER. But any imagined effort of Mr. Stevens would pale next to Nylund's journey through the butterflied joinery of syntax, the jerry-rigged joy of this tour de joist. And you thought you knew your own language. This book hands it back to you on a platter and includes the instructional manual for its further use. -Michael Martone, author of Michael Martone Joyelle McSweeney is the author of The Red Bird and The Commandrine and Other Poems, both from Fence. She is a co-founder and co-editor of Action Books and Action, Yes, a press and web quarterly for international writing and hybrid forms. She writes regular reviews for Rain Taxi, The Constant Critic, and other venues and teaches in the MFA Program at Notre Dame. Her next book will be the science fiction novel Flet, forthcoming from Fence in late 2007. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 11:29:53 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: CA Conrad Subject: Re: Joe Ceravolo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear Catherine, a swimsuit poetry calendar? Wow, so, who was in that one? Were they studio shots? On the beach? Or reading poems at SPT in bikinis? Any surf boards? Anyone in big straw hats? Anyone drinking martinis or milkshakes? Volley ball? In the library? Any men in it? Why have I been assuming it's just women until now? Only I can answer that of course. But how about sunshine? Is there lots of sunshine? A swimsuit poetry calendar could use a little sunshine, maybe not a lot of sunshine, but a little, right? Were there any books in the photos? Hmmm, I feel like I need to see this. I feel like my mind won't rest until I do. Joel Lewis got back and said Lewis Warsh and Jim Brodey were also in the naked poets calendar. That makes me happy as I now remember. And I swear it was Brodey where we all gasped and said, WOW, BRODEY IS REALLY HUNG! But maybe it was someone else. But whoever it was he scared us quite a bit. Well, we weren't really scared, just a little overwhelmed maybe. But no, I think it was Brodey though. In any case HEART OF THE BREATH is one of the most well hung books of poetry I've ever read. Remarkable book. What's that one line of his I always think of when watching the news? "lift the weight of ignorance with music" I think that's right, or close to it at least. I'd like to invent a special recipe and call it the Jim Brodey. I need to work on that, something with lots of spice! Something so spicy you cry when you eat it. We should cry when Brodey comes to mind. But what the fuck do I know? Maybe we should laugh? Or scream? Or just shut up and sit still? Or maybe everyone should just do whatever they want when Brodey comes to mind. There are so many tedious poetry calendars every year, year after year. Well, they're tedious to me because I generally don't like the poems in them. I'm not even suggesting we do a better one. I just wish calendar making would come to a complete halt frankly. Fuck calendars. Aren't you sick of them? Maybe it's just me. Today is Sunday, and I hate how knowing it's "Sunday" makes a difference. It does make a difference, and I don't want it to make a difference. I want my Tuesdays to be Sundays from now on. What a bunch of bullshit this world is, people making up calendars with days, and numbers. Temperature of cherries and beans should be enough. Going to find some beans for a personal forecast, CAConrad http://PhillySound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 12:15:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Bernadette's lists In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Thank you, Ed. Isn't it that the selection of how to write determines what to write? If so, how is the process really random? Are we not chasing our own tails here, in more or less interesting ways? Finally, is it possible to escape oneself, only a certain given version of ourself? Ciao, Murat On 8/19/07, Ed Friedman wrote: > > Dear Maria and others, > > Here's the list of experiments and journal ideas that used to be available > on the Poetry Project site. > > Best, > > Ed Friedman > > ----- > > Bernadette Mayer's List of Journal Ideas: > Journals of: > * dreams > * food > * finances > * writing ideas > * love > * ideas for architects > * city design ideas > * beautiful and/or ugly sights > * a history of one's own writing life, written daily > * reading/music/art, etc. encountered each day > * rooms > * elaborations on weather > * people one sees-description > * subway, bus, car or other trips (e.g., the same bus trip written about > every day) > * pleasures and/or pain > * life's everyday machinery: phones, stoves, computers, etc. > * answering machine messages > * round or rectangular things, other shapes > * color > * light > * daily changes, e.g., a journal of one's desk, table, etc. > * the body and its parts > * clocks/time-keeping > * tenant-landlord situations > * telephone calls (taped?) > * skies > * dangers > * mail > * sounds > * coincidences & connections > * times of solitude > > Other journal ideas: > * Write once a day in minute detail about one thing > * Write every day at the same time, e.g. lunch poems, waking ideas, etc. > * Write minimally: one line or sentence per day > * Create a collaborative journal: musical notation and poetry; two writers > alternating days; two writing about the same subject each day, etc. > * Instead of using a book, write on paper and put it up on the wall > (public > journal). > * and so on ... > > > Bernadette Mayer's Writing Experiments > * Pick a word or phrase at random, let mind play freely around it until a > few ideas have come up, then seize on one and begin to write. Try this > with > a non- connotative word, like "so" etc. > * Systematically eliminate the use of certain kinds of words or phrases > from > a piece of writing: eliminate all adjectives from a poem of your own, or > take out all words beginning with 's' in Shakespeare's sonnets. > * Rewrite someone else's writing. Experiment with theft and plagiarism. > * Systematically derange the language: write a work consisting only of > prepositional phrases, or, add a gerund to every line of an already > existing > work. > * Get a group of words, either randomly selected or thought up, then form > these words (only) into a piece of writing-whatever the words allow. Let > them demand their own form, or, use some words in a predetermined way. > Design words. > * Eliminate material systematically from a piece of your own writing until > it is "ultimately" reduced, or, read or write it backwards, line by line > or > word by word. Read a novel backwards. > * Using phrases relating to one subject or idea, write about another, > pushing metaphor and simile as far as you can. For example, use science > terms to write about childhood or philosophic language to describe a > shirt. > * Take an idea, anything that interests you, or an object, then spend a > few > days looking and noticing, perhaps making notes on what comes up about > that > idea, or, try to create a situation or surrounding where everything that > happens is in relation. > * Construct a poem as if the words were three-dimensional objects to be > handled in space. Print them on large cards or bricks if necessary. > * Write as you think, as close as you can come to this, that is, put pen > to > paper and don't stop. Experiment writing fast and writing slow. > * Attempt tape recorder work, that is, recording without a text, perhaps > at > specific times. > * Make notes on what happens or occurs to you for a limited amount of > time, > then make something of it in writing. > * Get someone to write for you, pretending they are you. > * Write in a strict form, or, transform prose into a poetic form. > * Write a poem that reflects another poem, as in a mirror. > * Read or write a story or myth, then put it aside and, trying to remember > it, write it five or ten times at intervals from memory. Or, make a work > out > of continuously saying, in a column or list, one sentence or line, over > and > over in different ways, until you get it "right." > * Make a pattern of repetitions. > * Take an already written work of your own and insert, at random or by > choice, a paragraph or section from, for example, a psychology book or a > seed catalogue. Then study the possibilities of rearranging this work or > rewriting the "source." > * Experiment with writing in every person and tense every day. > * Explore the possibilities of lists, puzzles, riddles, dictionaries, > almanacs, etc. Consult the thesaurus where categories for the word "word" > include: word as news, word as message, word as information, word as > story, > word as order or command, word as vocable, word as instruction, promise, > vow, contract. > * Write what cannot be written; for example, compose an index. > * The possibilities of synesthesia in relation to language and words: the > word and the letter as sensations, colors evoked by letters, sensations > caused by the sound of a word as apart from its meaning, etc. And the > effect > of this phenomenon on you; for example, write in the water, on a moving > vehicle. > * Attempt writing in a state of mind that seems least congenial. > * Consider word and letter as forms-the concretistic distortion of a text, > a > mutiplicity of o's or ea's, or a pleasing visual arrangement: "the mill > pond > of chill doubt." > * Do experiments with sensory memory: record all sense images that remain > from breakfast, study which senses engage you, escape you. > * Write, taking off from visual projections, whether mental or mechanical, > without thought to the word in the ordinary sense, no craft. > * Make writing experiments over a long period of time. For example, plan > how > much you will write for a particular work each day, perhaps one word or > one > page. > * Write on a piece of paper where something is already printed or written. > * Attempt to eliminate all connotation from a piece of writing and vice > versa. > * Experiment with writing in a group, collaborative work: a group writing > individually off of each other's work over a long period of time in the > same > room; a group contributing to the same work, sentence by sentence or line > by > line; one writer being fed information and ideas while the other writes; > writing, leaving instructions for another writer to fill in what you can't > describe; compiling a book or work structured by your own language around > the writings of others; or a group working and writing off of each other's > dream writing. > * Dream work: record dreams daily, experiment with translation or > transcription of dream thought, attempt to approach the tense and > incongruity appropriate to the dream, work with the dream until a poem or > song emerges from it, use the dream as an alert form of the mind's > activity > or consciousness, consider the dream a problem-solving device, change > dream > characters into fictional characters, accept dream's language as a gift. > * Structure a poem or prose writing according to city streets, miles, > walks, > drives. For example: Take a fourteen-block walk, writing one line per > block > to create a sonnet; choose a city street familiar to you, walk it, make > notes and use them to create a work; take a long walk with a group of > writers, observe, make notes and create works, then compare them; take a > long walk or drive-write one line or sentence per mile. Variations on > this. > * The uses of journals. Keep a journal that is restricted to one set of > ideas, for instance, a food or dream journal, a journal that is only > written > in when it is raining, a journal of ideas about writing, a weather > journal. > Remember that journals do not have to involve "good" writing-they are to > be > made use of. Simple one-line entries like "No snow today" can be inspiring > later. Have 3 or 4 journals going at once, each with a different purpose. > Create a journal that is meant to be shared and commented on by another > writer--leave half of each page blank for the comments of the other. > * Type out a Shakespeare sonnet or other poem you would like to learn > about/imitate double-spaced on a page. Rewrite it in between the lines. > * Find the poems you think are the worst poems ever written, either by > your > own self or other poets. Study them, then write a bad poem. > * Choose a subject you would like to write "about." Then attempt to write > a > piece that absolutely avoids any relationship to that subject. Get someone > to grade you. > * Write a series of titles for as yet unwritten poems or proses. > * Work with a number of objects, moving them around on a field or > surface-describe their shifting relationships, resonances, associations. > Or, > write a series of poems that have only to do with what you see in the > place > where you most often write. Or, write a poem in each room of your house or > apartment. Experiment with doing this in the home you grew up in, if > possible. > * Write a bestiary (a poem about real and mythical animals). > * Write five short expressions of the most adamant anger; make a work out > of > them. > * Write a work gazing into a mirror without using the pronoun I. > * A shocking experiment: Rip pages out of books at random (I guess you > could > xerox them) and study them as if they were a collection of poetic/literary > material. Use this method on your old high school or college notebooks, if > possible, then create an epistemological work based on the randomly chosen > notebook pages. > * Meditate on a word, sound or list of ideas before beginning to write. > * Take a book of poetry you love and make a list, going through it poem by > poem, of the experiments, innovations, methods, intentions, etc. involved > in > the creation of the works in the book. > * Write what is secret. Then write what is shared. Experiment with writing > each in two different ways: veiled language, direct language. > * Write a soothing novel in twelve short paragraphs. > * Write a work that attempts to include the names of all the physical > contents of the terrestrial world that you know. > * Take a piece of prose writing and turn it into poetic lines. Then, > without > remembering that you were planning to do this, make a poem of the first > and > last words of each line to see what happens. For instance, the lines (from > Einstein) > * When at the reception > * Of sense-impressions, memory pictures > * Emerge this is not yet thinking > * And when. . . > * Would become: > * When reception > * Of pictures > * Emerge thinking > * And when > * And so on. Form the original prose, poetic lines, and first-and-last > word > poem into three columns on a page. Study their relationships. > * If you have an answering machine, record all messages received for one > month, then turn them into a best-selling novella. > * Write a macaronic poem (making use of as many languages as you are > conversant with). > * Attempt to speak for a day only in questions; write only in questions. > * Attempt to become in a state where the mind is flooded with ideas; > attempt > to keep as many thoughts in mind simultaneously as possible. Then write > without looking at the page, typescript or computer screen (This is > "called" > invisible writing). > * Choose a period of time, perhaps five or nine months. Every day, write a > letter that will never be sent to a person who does or does not exist, or > to > a number of people who do or do not exist. Create a title for each letter > and don't send them. Pile them up as a book. > * Etymological work. Experiment with investigating the etymologies of all > words that interest you, including your own name(s). Approaches to > etymologies: Take a work you've already written, preferably something > short, > look up the etymological meanings of every word in that work including > words > like "the" and "a". Study the histories of the words used, then rewrite > the > work on the basis of the etymological information found out. Another > approach: Build poems and writings form the etymological families based on > the Indo-European language constructs, for instance, the BHEL family: > bulge, > bowl, belly, boulder, billow, ball, balloon; or the OINO family: one, > alone, > lonely, unique, unite, unison, union; not to speak of one of the GEN > families: kin, king, kindergarten, genteel, gender, generous, genius, > genital, gingerly, pregnant, cognate, renaissance, and innate! > * Write a brief bibliography of the science and philosophy texts that > interest you. Create a file of newspaper articles that seem to relate to > the > chances of writing poetry. > * Write the poem: Ways of Making Love. List them. > * Diagram a sentence in the old-fashioned way. If you don't know how, I'll > be happy to show you; if you do know how, try a really long sentence, for > instance from Melville. > * Turn a list of the objects that have something to do with a person who > has > died into a poem or poem form, in homage to that person. > * Write the same poem over and over again, in different forms, until you > are > weary. Another experiment: Set yourself the task of writing for four hours > at a time, perhaps once, twice or seven times a week. Don't stop until > hunger and/or fatigue take over. At the very least, always set aside a > four-hour period once a month in which to write. This is always possible > and > will result in one book of poems or prose writing for each year. Then we > begin to know something. > * Attempt as a writer to win the Nobel Prize in Science by finding out how > thought becomes language, or does not. > * Take a traditional text like the pledge of allegiance to the flag. For > every noun, replace it with one that is seventh or ninth down from the > original one in the dictionary. For instance, the word "honesty" would be > replaced by "honey dew melon." Investigate what happens; different > dictionaries will produce different results. > * Attempt to write a poem or series of poems that will change the world. > Does everything written or dreamed of do this? > * Write occasional poems for weddings, for rivers, for birthdays, for > other > poets' beauty, for movie stars maybe, for the anniversaries of all kinds > of > loving meetings, for births, for moments of knowledge, for deaths. Writing > for the "occasion" is part of our purpose as poets in being-this is our > work > in the community wherein we belong and work as speakers for others. > * Experiment with every traditional form, so as to know it. > * Write poems and proses in which you set yourself the task of using > particular words, chosen at random like the spelling exercises of > children: > intelligence, amazing, weigh, weight, camel, camel's, foresight, through, > threw, never, now, snow, rein, rain. Make a story of that! > * Plan, structure, and write a long work. Consider what is the work now > needed by the culture to cure and exact even if by accident the great > exorcism of its 1998 sort-of- seeming-not-being. What do we need? What is > the poem of the future? > * What is communicable now? What more is communicable? > * Compose a list of familiar phrases, or phrases that have stayed in your > mind for a long time--from songs, from poems, from conversation: > * What's in a name? That which we call a rose > * By any other name would smell as sweet > * (Romeo and Juliet) > * A rose is a rose is a rose > * (Gertrude Stein) > * A raisin in the sun > * (Langston Hughes) > * The king was in the counting house > * Counting out his money. . . > * (Nursery rhyme) > * I sing the body electric. . . > * These United States. . . > * (Walt Whitman) > * A thing of beauty is a joy forever > * (Keats) > * (I summon up) remembrance of things past > * (WS) > * Ask not for whom the bell tolls > * It tolls for thee > * (Donne) > * Look homeward, Angel > * (Milton) > * For fools rush in where angels fear to tread > * (Pope) > * All's well that ends well > * (WS) > * I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness > * (Allen Ginsberg) > * I think therefore I am > * (Descartes) > * It was the best of times, it was the worst of times,. . . > * (Dickens) > * brave new world has such people in it > * (Shakespeare, The Tempest, later Huxley) > * Odi et amo (I hate and I love) > * (Catullus) > * Water water everywhere > * Nor any drop to drink > * (Coleridge) > * Curiouser and curiouser > * (Alice in Wonderland) > * Don't worry be happy. Here's a little song I wrote. . . > * Write the longest most beautiful sentence you can imagine-make it be a > whole page. > * Set yourself the task of writing in a way you've never written before, > no > matter who you are. > * What is the value of autobiography? > * Attempt to write in a way that's never been written before. > * Invent a new form. > * Write a perfect poem. > * Write a work that intersperses love with landlords. > * In a poem, list what you know. > * Address the poem to the reader. > * Write household poems-about cooking, shopping, eating and sleeping. > * Write dream collabortations in the lune form. > * Write poems that only make use of the words included in Basic English. > * Attempt to write about jobs and how they affect the writing of poetry. > * Write while being read to from science texts, or, write while being read > to by one's lover from any text. > * Trade poems with others and do not consider them your own. > * Exercises in style: Write twenty-five or more different versions of one > event. > * Review the statement: "What is happening to me, allowing for lies and > exaggerations which I try to avoid, goes into my poems." > > > > > Jonathan Mayhew's Writing Experiments (with apologies to Bernadette Mayer) > 1. Make a list of writing experiments. > 2. Write a poem in which you include some reference, explicit > or > implicit, to everyone you know who has committed suicide. > 3. Write poems designed for a particular magazine (a la Jack > Spicer), even if this magazine doesn't publish poetry. Send the poems to > the > magazine as you write them until they either publish you or tell you to > stop. > 4. If you are an academic, give an academic paper composed > entirely of heroic couplets. Don't tell anyone what you are doing. > 5. "Ghost-write" poems for politicians or celebrities. > 6. Write non-stop for 6 months, in every waking hour not > devoted > to any other necessary activity. > 7. Compose a poem employing as many metaphors or examples as > possible derived from Wittegenstein's Philosophical Investigations. > 8. Read only poetry written before 1800 for a year. See if your > writing has changed. If it has changed for the better, do the same with > 1700. > 9. Take a book of poetry by someone else and compose poetic > responses to every single poem. Try this with a poet you hate and then > with > a poet you love. Try writing your poems directly in the book, if you can > stand to deface it. > 10. Invent "heteronimos" a la Pessoa. > 11. Compose a "Japanese Poetic Diary" > 12. Write an autobiography, but including only events having to do with > particular "subjects" (cooking, jazz, landlords, shoes). > 13. Write the eleventh "Duino Elegy." > 14. Write a book of poetry in which the letter B never appears. > See if > anyone notices. > 15. Parody your own style. > 16. Stage elaborate contests (sestina contests, memorizing > contests, > rhyming contests). > 17. Invent multiple ways of "gambling" on poetry (e.g. on the > contests > devised above). > 18. Create a "neo-classical" style that is as regular and > normative as > Racine. The vocabulary should be fairly limited, the syntax limpid, the > versification utterly smooth. Use this style as your normal mode of > communication as much as you can get away with. > 19. Try to get non-poets to collaborate with you on grandiose > poetic > projects. Test your persuasive powers. > 20. Convince famous painters to illustrate your work or paint > your > portrait, or composers to set your poems to music. > 21. Practice thinking in complete sentences. Do not write these > down. > 22. Be a Platonic "name-giver" of the type described in the > Cratylus. Work at giving things their exact or "proper" names. Then > practice > with "misnomers." > 23. See if Wittgenstein was right: try to invent a "private > language" for your sensations. > 24. Adopt a variety of social "identities" in your writing > (race, > ethnicity, class, sexual identity). However, avoid any explicit > "identifying" reference in the poem itself (e.g. don't use the word > "barrio" > in your chicano poems). > 25. Invent a private slang (a la Lester Young); attempt to get > as > many people as you can to use the words you coin. Don't use these words in > your writing; rather, conceive of the invention of this language as an > independent poetic activity. > 26. Write "vocalese lyrics" to a recorded jazz solo. > 27. Practice speaking in blank verse as "naturally" as > possible. > 28. Create your own avant-garde movement; make sure you > officially dissolve the movement after 6 months or a year. > 29. Invent an imaginary city, complete with geography, history, > architecture, prominent citizens, etc... Keep a sort of "bible" of all the > information you compile. Then write poems set in this city. > 30. Write nothing but sestinas and pantoums for a month. Then > "cannabilize" them, using the best lines to write other poems > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 10:01:00 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alexander Jorgensen Subject: Re: Tibetan Writing Collective - But, well, who really cares? In-Reply-To: <33441.86492.qm@web54606.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit What I want you to understand is this: With over 1000 people on this list, or so I am told, if a mere few hundred could donate a book - or even, oh gosh, two hundred. Well, c'mon now... One less steak, packet of organic what-not, highly fortified and regurgitated refortified and heavily processed to extreme - one less trip to 7/11?? Regards, Alexander Jorgensen Alexander Jorgensen wrote: Received some wonderful feedback and prompt replies. And a special thank you (and you know who you are). By week's end, I will send a reply with address and detailed information related to the project. As said, I, and with lots of support, including the active participation of both Kathup Tsering and Santanu Bandyopadhyay, and this is a cooperative matter, which is to say that none are gonna receive accolades for doing what is right, are in the midst of planting the seeds, as they say, of a writer's collective in the midst of the Himalayas. And as for me, to be honest, this is being done at my own peril, not to be dramatic - but one can't believe in Tom Paine and pluralism without actually putting one's belief on the line (the word more invidious than any bullets). With 2008 approaching, and the need ever present, we are looking for those who are willing to donate a single book to this cause (postage included) - and that seed being planted towards the development of a reference library to accompany equipment already donated towards the formation of a support center providing access to those in greatest of need. I am talking about those who, one might argue, have more important things to say and offer than, say, many of those living Stateside or in Europe, and most of whom are writing for reasons far more important than those engrossed in typical "tea culture" - or the newest fad in Brooklyn or Chicago poetics (most of which both scholars and time won't bother to honor). No insult intended, be sure. But when you cross into Nepal, Mainland gun sites planted on you, barefoot and frostbitten, entering what is really your cultural homeland, because the Mandarin and Tibetans have little in common, leaving family and so-and-so behind, and write - well, then. A book, just a book, postage and no possibility of tax break, is what is asked and the return only in thanks. Please. Back channel for email. Again, those who have already contacted me will receive a reply by week's end. Just returned to China. Regards, Alexander Jorgensen -- Marcus Aurelius: "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius: "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 10:35:49 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: Joe Ceravolo In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cecelia Wolloch wore a black bikini. Larry Jaffe. Suzanne Lummis. I think Elizabeth Iannacci and Brendan Constantine, and I think Eliz was wearing a leopard print bikini. Someone wore a trench coat. I flipped through it once; it was issued by Tebot Bach, and may be online somwhere. I'm sure more of the Tebot Bach people were in it. Jack Grapes? maybe. Hopefully Philomine Long and John Thomas (who was alive then); I really wouldn't do a calendar without Philomine in it. Probably some of the former hyperpoets? http://tebotbach.org/ Frankie Drayus and I proposed wearing parkas. I was in a fashion show at an art gallery and they let me wear a parka and carry the teeny pink baby ts I painted with slogans instead of modeling them. Maryrose Larkin's Whimsy Daybook is a great poetry calendar. Well, daybook. No scantily clad or unclad poets in it, though. -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly@gmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 11:41:33 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Quartermain Subject: Re: creative writing praxis In-Reply-To: <46C84A31.8040809@umn.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sorry if I'm repeating stale news, I'm coming late to this. Did anyone mention Oulipo Compendium edited by Harry Mathews and Alexander Brotchie (Atlas, revised ed 1998)? It's an amazing great resource. ========= Peter Quartermain 846 Keefer Street Vancouver BC Canada V6A 1Y7 604 255 8274 (voice) quarterm@interchange.ubc.ca ========= -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Maria Damon Sent: 19 August 2007 06:49 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: creative writing praxis thanks! this is invaluable info. Hugh Nicoll wrote: > Hi all, > > Fascinating discussion. I've found two versions of Bernadette Mayer's > experiments googling: > > http://spinelessbooks.com/mayer/index.html > > and > > http://www.factoryschool.org/handbook/creative/experiments.html > > HN > > On 8/19/07, Catherine Daly wrote: > >> perhaps the people who redesigned the poetry project website could >> give us a clue? >> >> -- >> All best, >> Catherine Daly >> c.a.b.daly@gmail.com >> >> > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 00:33:45 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Disarming the teaching of history in Israel and Palestine In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit wonderful--thank for passing this along, Jim. On 8/17/07 1:13 AM, "Jim Andrews" wrote: > As some of you may recall, vispo.com hosts the Web site of PRIME, the Peace > Research Institute in the Middle East. PRIME is mainly run by Dan Bar-On, an > Israeli scholar, and Sammi Adwan, a Palestinian scholar. > > There are two new documents on the Web site you may find of interest. > > LEARNING EACH OTHER'S HISTORICAL NARRATIVE > http://vispo.com/PRIME/leohn1.pdf > This is a preliminary translation into English of a document developed by > Israeli and Palestinian High school teachers that presents to grade 9 and 10 > students in Israel and Palestine something of the historical narrative of > the 'other side'. This project is an attempt to "disarm the teaching of > history". There are articles about this project at > http://vispo.com/PRIME/patience.htm (a copy of a USA Today article) and at > http://vispo.com/PRIME/herzog.htm (a copy of an article from the Globe and > Mail). This PRIME project was awarded the inaugual Goldberg IIE prize for > peace-building in the middle east (see > http://vispo.com/PRIME/goldbergprize.htm ). > > THE PRIME SHARED HISTORY PROJECT > Peace-Building Project Under Fire > http://vispo.com/PRIME/iram192.pdf > This is an article by Dan Bar-On and Sami Adwan concerning the background > and some of the research concerning the 'Learning Each Other's Historical > Narrative' project. > > ja > http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 01:07:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: what remains (quite beautiful) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed what remains because of the faces and powers among our second lives and third and others in-between the others; because of swollen faces thinned back to pages bones and shadowed flesh that nothing stays what was simple and illusion and then poetics rounds and fills the world among lost pages and inscriptions freed from every symbol and symbols freed and world; the less are said the farther truth transcends because of truths and songs and lights and place where bodies turn; because of bodies churned and stretched among beams of those lights and those songs; those truths nothing stays back nothing; valleys fill with jostled things and things churn symbols; the world fills silence; skies get dark kiss; welkin http://www.asondheim.org/whatremains.mp4 song singer azure carter words video alan sondheim ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 20:07:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jennifer Karmin Subject: Elvira Arellano: arrested in LA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Immigrant rights activist Elvira Arellano was arrested in Los Angeles on Sunday afternoon. She sought refuge inside a Chicago church for one year and actively disobeyed an order by the Department of Homeland Security to turn herself in for deportation. http://email.chicagotribune.com/cgi-bin1/DM/y/eBVxh0Rv1ZB0G2E0IrEB0Ay Immigration activist Arellano arrested By Antonio Olivo An illegal Mexican immigrant who sought refuge inside a Chicago church for a year was arrested in Los Angeles on Sunday afternoon after taking her campaign on the road. Elvira Arellano was arrested about 4:15 p.m. Chicago time by law enforcement officials after leaving Our Lady Queen of Angels Church in downtown Los Angeles, said Emma Lozano, an adviser who was there during the arrest. After talking to news media inside the church, Arellano and her supporters got into their van to head north to San Jose, where she was scheduled to speak at another church, Lozano said. Moments after they got in the van, an unmarked vehicle stopped them. The driver of Arellano's van, Roberto Lopez, poked his head out of the van because he wanted to see why they were being blocked. Several other unmarked vehicles surrounded their van. Agents came out of all the cars screaming at the top of their lungs for her to get out, Lozano said. Her 8-year-old son, Saul, started to cry, and Arellano said to everyone in the car, "Calm down. Don't have any fear. They can't hurt me." Then she turned to the people who were about to arrest her and she said, "You're going to have to give me a minute with my son," Lozano said. She spent time with her son in the car, and then surrendered. It was over in less than two minutes. She was arrested Sunday on Main Street, near Our Lady Queen of Angels, where Arellano slept Saturday night and where she's held several press conferences Saturday and Sunday. In a statement released Sunday night, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement said that its "officers in Los Angeles today arrested criminal alien and immigration fugitive Elvira Arellano." "Arellano, who was taken into custody without incident, is being processed for removal to Mexico based upon a deportation order originally issued by a federal immigration judge in 1997," the statment said. "Arresting and removing criminal aliens is one of ICE's top enforcement priorities and the agency will continue to pursue these cases vigorously." Much of the anger from all parts of the political spectrum surrounding illegal immigration has been crystallized by Arellano's story. After entering the country illegally twice, she became an activist shortly after she was arrested in 2002 during a federal sweep at O'Hare International Airport, where Arellano cleaned airplanes. She was later convicted of using a fake Social Security card. Rick Biesada, director and founder of the Chicago Minuteman Project, lauded the arrest, but he said it came a year too late. "I was wondering why the police were dragging their feet," he said. "By not going in there and getting her, other illegals were going to churches seeking sanctuary. Now we're going to have hell to pay in this country trying to extract these people." Local Spanish-language radio host Javier Salas said he felt badly for what happened to Arellano. But in leaving the sanctuary of Adalberto United Methodist Church and heading to Los Angeles, it was only a matter of time before she was arrested. "I'm not happy that this happened, but it was bound to happen because she was challenging the system," said Salas, the host of the morning-drive talk show La Tremenda on WRTO AM-1200. By Sunday afternoon Salas was already talking about the arrest on the radio, and callers were weighing in too. Callers were "saying that she was traveling to Los Angeles and around the United States, she would provoke [Immigration and Customs Enforcement] and the anti-immigrant groups," he said. "There would be checkpoints everywhere." Salas questioned why it appeared that mainstream media make Arellano out to be the face of undocumented immigrants, when her actions have exacerbated the animosity toward them. "She wasn't down to earth," he said, adding that Arellano acted "entitled" to rights "when there's thousands and thousands of people in the same situation." "She made everything worse," Salas said. "She's not a face of the immigrants. My family without papers, she doesn't represent them." Activists in the Chicago area who have followed Arellano's story weren't surprised that the law caught up to her. "Everyone knew it was probably a question of when, not if " she would be arrested, said Joshua Hoyt, executive director of the Illinois Coalition for Immigrant and Refugee Rights. "It just made me feel really sad because she knows she's looking at time in prison. I feel bad for her and for her child and for all the other people in that situation." Hoyt said he met Arellano nearly three years ago after she was arrested in a sweep of undocumented immigrants working at O'Hare International Airport. Arellano had been cleaning planes at night, he said. At the time --"before she was famous," Hoyt noted--she was afraid, intimidated and ashamed because she had been arrested by federal agents in front of her son. "She was really emotional and really hurt. She was deeply offended that she would get arrested in front of her child and be treated like a criminal," Hoyt said. "She thought someone who comes here to work hard at night so she can support her child is not a criminal." In the intervening years, however, she turned her pain to activism, organizing the families of those being deported, he said. "I think she's an incredibly brave person who's put a human face on the suffering of the undocumented in this country and because of the cowardice of politicians, many more families are going to be destroyed and many more people are going to die on the borders," Hoyt said. "America needs to look itself in the face and ask if we want to be that kind of country." The church where Arellano sought sanctuary for the last year became the command center where friends and organizers gathered to plan a vigil on Sunday night to show support for Arellano after her arrest. Those who lived with her and knew her best at Alberto United Methodist Church cried together and hugged each other but quickly brushed aside the tears, channeling their grief into action. Less than an hour after the arrest, Jacobita Alonso arrived at the front of the church in tears. For several minutes, people inside the church struggled to open the padlock on the gate that for a year had kept Arellano protected from the outside. Work immediately began for a vigil, from phone calls to alert supporters to getting batteries for the speakers they would use to take their message to the street. Jacobita Alonso, a lay leader at the church who stayed with Arellano on the second-floor apartment over the last year, felt propelled to action. "We cannot sit here only grieving. All we can do is organize our people. We want her to know she is not alone. The community is crying. Her fight is a fight for all people," she said Sunday. "There are thousands of Elviras. There are thousands of mothers just like Elvira who just want to keep their families together." Alonso and a dozen other supporters sat in the second-floor apartment where Arellano lived, watching television news broadcasts and sending out messages by e-mail. The group has already organized a vigil for 7 p.m. at the Immigration and Customs Enforcement office downtown at Congress Parkway and Clark Street and another at 9 a.m. at the same location to show support for Arellano, but also to protest the arrest. George Atkins sat in the sanctuary, quitely observing. "I'm sad she was arrested, but I'm proud that she was a member of this church and that I got to know her," Atkins said. "She always knew she could be arrested. She could have slipped quietly into the night like many others do but she chose to stand up for what she believed in." Questions swirled up and down the church stairs. What would happen to Arellano's son? Where would Arellano go? Alonso said the boy was with Lozano, her closest advisor, but she wondered if he would be returned to Chicago, as Arellano had expressed hope to her many times before. "All I can say is that miracles exist and we're praying," Alonso said. Amid heavy rainfall, about three dozen people sang, prayed and read passages from the Bible during a vigil tonight outside the ICE's Chicago headquarters, 536 S. Clark St., to show their disapproval of her arrest. One of the attendees, Ald. Ricardo Munoz (22nd), said, "It's a sad day. We need comprehensive immigration reform that keeps families together. A young boy, a U.S. citizen, lost his mother to a broken system." Munoz said, "Elvira has put a face to this struggle. There are 12 million illegal immigrants that head to work every morning, not knowing if they'll come home at the end of the day." He said other aldermen would be reaching out to U.S. Sens. Dick Durbin and Barack Obama for help in diffusing the situation, and preventing Arellano from being deported. Jorge Mujica, an organizer of the March 10 Committee, which earlier this year set up a large scale protest downtown advocating immigration reform, said Arellano would not have been arrested in Chicago because she has so much support from city officials and the Latino community. "They waited for the right time. She could not live in the church forever," Mujica said. Up until now, she had been a symbol of the immigration debate, Mujica said. But now with her arrest she has become a martyr because "she has suffered unjustly." "People who had not heard of Elvira before are going to hear her story and better understand the debate," Mujica said. Tribune staff reporters Emma Graves Fitzsimmons and Andrew L. Wang contributed to this report from Chicago. Copyright © 2007, Chicago Tribune ____________________________________________________________________________________ Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 05:24:31 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Beckett Subject: TINY BOOKS GOES INTERNATIONAL (OF COURSE) FOR POETRY TO KEEP FEEDING THE WORLD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Meritage Press (MP) is pleased to announce the third title in its series of= =20 Tiny Books that aligns poetry with fair trade and economic development issu= es=20 affecting Third World countries.=20 MP's Tiny Books initially utilize small books (1 3/4" x 1 3/4") made in=20 Guatemala by artisans paid fair wages, as sourced by Baksheesh, a fair trad= e=20 retailer. All profits from book sales then will be donated to Heifer=20 International, an organization devoted to reducing world hunger by promotin= g sustainable=20 sources of food and income. =20 We are delighted to announce that MP's third Tiny Book is =20 "=E2=80=A6And Then The Wind Did Blow..." =20 Jainak=C3=BA Poems by Ernesto Priego Ernesto Priego was born in Mexico City. He lives in London. He blogs at=20 Never Neutral (http://neverneutral.wordpress.com/) and is the author of the= first=20 single-author hay(na)ku poetry collection, Not Even Dogs (Meritage Press).=20= =20 The "jainak=C3=BA" is Mexico's version of the hay(na)ku poetic form. With Tiny Books, MP also offers a new DIY, or Do-It-Yourself Model of=20 publishing. You've heard of POD or print-on-demand? Well, these books' prin= t runs=20 will be based on HOD or Handwritten-on-Demand. MP's publisher, Eileen Tabio= s,=20 will handwrite all texts into the Tiny Books' pages and books will be =20 released to meet demand for as long as MP is able to source tiny books -- or= until=20 the publisher gets arthritis.=20 This project reflects Meritage Press' belief that "Poetry feeds the world"=20 in non-metaphorical ways. The Tiny Books create demand for fair trade worke= rs'=20 products while also sourcing donations for easing poverty in poorer areas o= f=20 the world.=20 MP's other Tiny Books, which also are still available, are =20 all alone again=20 by Dan Waber and Steps: A Notebook =20 by Tom Beckett=20 Dan Waber is a visual poet, concrete poet, sound poet, performance poet,=20 publisher, editor, playwright and multimedia artist whose work has appeared= in=20 all sorts of delicious places, from digital to print, from stage to classro= om,=20 from mailboxes to puppet theaters. He is currently working on "and =20 everywhere in between". He makes his online home at logolalia.com. Meritage=20= Press=20 tapped Mr. Waber to inaugurate the series partly for his work in minimalist= =20 poetry.=20 Tom Beckett is the author of Unprotected Texts: Selected Poems 1978~2006=20 (Meritage Press, 2006), and the curator of E-X-C-H-A-N-G-E-V-A-L-U-E-S: The= =20 First XI Interviews (Otoliths, 2007). From 1980-1990, he was the editor/pub= lisher=20 of the now legendary critical journal, The Difficulties. Steps: A Notebook=20 is Tom Beckett's first hay(na)ku poetry collection. The hay(na)ku is also a= =20 form that lends itself to minimalism.=20 Each Tiny Book will cost $10 plus $1.00 shipping/handling. To purchase the=20 Tiny Books and donate to Heifer International, send a check for $11.00 per=20 book, made out to "Meritage Press" to =20 Eileen Tabios=20 Meritage Press=20 256 North Fork Crystal Springs Rd. =20 St. Helena, CA 94574 Please specify which of the three Tiny Books you are ordering. For more information: MeritagePress@aol.com =20 ***** FUNDAISING UPDATE: As of Aug. 18, 2007, Meritage Press' Tiny Books has sold enough Tiny Books=20 to finance the donation equivalent of about twelve gift packets of honeybee= s. =20 Here's the buzz about bees from Heifer International: "From India to the Dominican Republic, bees from Heifer International help=20 struggling families earn income through the sale of honey, beeswax and poll= en.=20 Beehives require almost no space, and once established, are inexpensive to=20 maintain. As bees search for nectar, they pollinate plants. Placed=20 strategically, beehives can as much as double some fruit and vegetable yiel= ds. In this=20 way, a beehive can be a boon to a whole village. Although most Heifer partn= ers=20 keep bees as a supplement to family income, beekeeping can be a family's=20 livelihood. Your gift provides a family with a package of bees, the box and= =20 hive, and training in beekeeping." Then of course there are the chickens, goats, water buffalos, pigs,=20 ducks....all of which can help ease hunger around the world. Meritage Pres= s thanks=20 you in advance for your sweet support and hopes you enjoy Tiny Books -- sma= ll=20 enough to become jewelry, but with poems big enough to resonate worldwide. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL a= t=20 http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 08:21:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Christian Peet, Tarpaulin Sky Press & Journal" Subject: Noah Eli Gordon & Joshua Marie Wilkinson: _Figures for a Darkroom Voice_ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Now available for pre-order: $2 off the list price + free shipping FIGURES FOR A DARKROOM VOICE by Noah Eli Gordon & Joshua Marie Wilkinson with images by Noah Saterstrom Tarpaulin Sky Press ISBN: 978-0-9779019-5-1 Poetry. 5.5" x 7", 94 pages Ships October 1, 2007 http://www.tarpaulinsky.com/Press/Figures/index.html In FIGURES FOR A DARKROOM VOICE the rhetorical twisting of Noah Eli Gordon's abstractions meld with the ominous narratives of Joshua Marie Wilkinson's fragments, turning Wallace Steven's notion of a supreme fiction toward a supreme friction, one where the work of these two poets is fused into a voice as singular as it is sinister. Imagine a gallery in which Cornell boxes talk back, a Maya Deren film in which the audience dissolves into projector light, a Philip Glass composition played exclusively on medieval weaponry, such are the compelling results of this collaborative work. In prose poems, syntactically elusive sonnets, and haunting, haiku-like fragments illuminated by the ink drawings of Noah Saterstrom, one encounters a recurring cast of logically-skewed images, inauspicious yet arresting aphorisms, and characters rendered fully bizarre in the lightest of brushstrokes. Here, the slippage and disruptions of textually investigative work collides with the mind-expanding project of conjuring paradox, while never quite leaving linearity behind. When these poets write, "I am trying to draw you a simple picture of explanation," one realizes the monumental nature of such a task. And this task is made more complex, and ultimately more rewarding, by the inclusion of Noah Saterstrom's dynamic images. "Who," Gordon and Wilkinson ask, "operates the levers in this darkroom dress-shop?" Who, indeed! The rich history of literary collaboration just got richer. These two guys tell us, "There is nothing that summer can do to us That we could not ourselves develop in the basement" so we know "the sleepwalkers enter a swimming pool With their haggings& black dresses," "raising private horses" Therefore it's true "What mammal wouldn't want its own vibrant egg?" They glitter. This book glitters. -Tomaz Salamun NOAH ELI GORDON is the author of Novel Pictorial Noise (Harper Perennial, 2007; selected by John Ashbery for the National Poetry Series), A Fiddle Pulled from the Throat of a Sparrow (New Issues, 2007), Inbox (BlazeVOX, 2006), The Area of Sound Called the Subtone (Ahsahta, 2004), and The Frequencies (Tougher Disguises, 2003), as well as numerous chapbooks, including That We Come to a Consensus (Ugly Duckling Presse, 2005; in collaboration with Sara Veglahn). JOSHUA MARIE WILKINSON is the author of Suspension of a Secret in Abandoned Rooms (Pinball, 2005), Lug Your Careless Body out of the Careful Dusk (U of Iowa, 2006), and The Book of Whispering in the Projection Booth (forthcoming from Tupelo Press). He holds a PhD from University of Denver and lives in Chicago where he teaches at Loyola University. His first film, Made a Machine by Describing the Landscape, is due out next year. NOAH SATERSTROM has exhibited paintings, drawings, projects, and installations nationally and internationally. The recipient of grants and residencies, he also does numerous collaborations with writers and musicians. Recent publications include The Denver Quarterly and Tarpaulin Sky. With Selah Saterstrom he curates Slab Projects, a series of ongoing investigations which generate public works in the New Orleans and Gulf Coast region. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 09:07:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: BRUCE MCPHERSON Subject: A brief poetics of collaboration MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=Windows-1252; reply-type=original Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit About 18 months ago I published an experimental collaboration between Robert Kelly and Birgit Kempker titled "Shame." For the occasion I issued a short catalogue about that book and two other Kellys that we'd published previously, "The Garden of Distances" (on drawings by Brigitte Mahlknecht) and "Unquell the Dawn Now" (a homeophonic translation of Holderlin, with Schuldt's subsequent elaborations), and including also an earlier "writing through" piece that Kelly had performed on a poem by P.B. Shelley. For the catalogue Kelly contributed by invitation four pieces of commentary, description, reflection and theory about collaborative writing in general and these in particular. Since these short texts have not appeared elsewhere -- and I think listmembers may find them especially illuminating and useful -- I've placed the catalogue on my site now as a PDF download (about 385 kb): https://www.mcphersonco.com/share/pdfs%20for%20website/Kelly%20Collaborations.pdf I'd be happy to mail anyone on this list a copy of the remaining actual catalogues -- simply e-mail me off-group your postal address (send to bmcpher@verizon.net). For info about Kelly and Kempker's extraordinary "Shame": https://www.mcphersonco.com/cs.php?f[0]=shh&pdID=151 Bruce McPherson McPherson & Company ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 10:33:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Elvira Arellano: arrested in LA In-Reply-To: <59106.36250.qm@web31004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable imagine, cleaning planes at night, in her situation On 8/19/07 11:07 PM, "Jennifer Karmin" wrote: > Immigrant rights activist Elvira Arellano was arrested > in Los Angeles on Sunday afternoon. She sought refuge > inside a Chicago church for one year and actively > disobeyed an order by the Department of Homeland > Security to turn herself in for deportation. > =20 > http://email.chicagotribune.com/cgi-bin1/DM/y/eBVxh0Rv1ZB0G2E0IrEB0Ay >=20 > Immigration activist Arellano arrested > By Antonio Olivo >=20 > An illegal Mexican immigrant who sought refuge inside > a Chicago church for a year was arrested in Los > Angeles on Sunday afternoon after taking her campaign > on the road. >=20 > Elvira Arellano was arrested about 4:15 p.m. Chicago > time by law enforcement officials after leaving Our > Lady Queen of Angels Church in downtown Los Angeles, > said Emma Lozano, an adviser who was there during the > arrest. >=20 > After talking to news media inside the church, > Arellano and her supporters got into their van to head > north to San Jose, where she was scheduled to speak at > another church, Lozano said. Moments after they got in > the van, an unmarked vehicle stopped them. >=20 > The driver of Arellano's van, Roberto Lopez, poked his > head out of the van because he wanted to see why they > were being blocked. Several other unmarked vehicles > surrounded their van. >=20 > Agents came out of all the cars screaming at the top > of their lungs for her to get out, Lozano said. Her > 8-year-old son, Saul, started to cry, and Arellano > said to everyone in the car, "Calm down. Don't have > any fear. They can't hurt me." >=20 > Then she turned to the people who were about to arrest > her and she said, "You're going to have to give me a > minute with my son," Lozano said. She spent time with > her son in the car, and then surrendered. >=20 > It was over in less than two minutes. She was arrested > Sunday on Main Street, near Our Lady Queen of Angels, > where Arellano slept Saturday night and where she's > held several press conferences Saturday and Sunday. >=20 > In a statement released Sunday night, U.S. Immigration > and Customs Enforcement said that its "officers in Los > Angeles today arrested criminal alien and immigration > fugitive Elvira Arellano." >=20 > "Arellano, who was taken into custody without > incident, is being processed for removal to Mexico > based upon a deportation order originally issued by a > federal immigration judge in 1997," the statment said. > "Arresting and removing criminal aliens is one of > ICE's top enforcement priorities and the agency will > continue to pursue these cases vigorously." >=20 > Much of the anger from all parts of the political > spectrum surrounding illegal immigration has been > crystallized by Arellano's story. After entering the > country illegally twice, she became an activist > shortly after she was arrested in 2002 during a > federal sweep at O'Hare International Airport, where > Arellano cleaned airplanes. She was later convicted of > using a fake Social Security card. >=20 > Rick Biesada, director and founder of the Chicago > Minuteman Project, lauded the arrest, but he said it > came a year too late. >=20 > "I was wondering why the police were dragging their > feet," he said. "By not going in there and getting > her, other illegals were going to churches seeking > sanctuary. Now we're going to have hell to pay in this > country trying to extract these people." >=20 > Local Spanish-language radio host Javier Salas said he > felt badly for what happened to Arellano. But in > leaving the sanctuary of Adalberto United Methodist > Church and heading to Los Angeles, it was only a > matter of time before she was arrested. >=20 > "I'm not happy that this happened, but it was bound to > happen because she was challenging the system," said > Salas, the host of the morning-drive talk show La > Tremenda on WRTO AM-1200. >=20 > By Sunday afternoon Salas was already talking about > the arrest on the radio, and callers were weighing in > too. >=20 > Callers were "saying that she was traveling to Los > Angeles and around the United States, she would > provoke [Immigration and Customs Enforcement] and the > anti-immigrant groups," he said. "There would be > checkpoints everywhere." >=20 > Salas questioned why it appeared that mainstream media > make Arellano out to be the face of undocumented > immigrants, when her actions have exacerbated the > animosity toward them. >=20 > "She wasn't down to earth," he said, adding that > Arellano acted "entitled" to rights "when there's > thousands and thousands of people in the same > situation." >=20 > "She made everything worse," Salas said. "She's not a > face of the immigrants. My family without papers, she > doesn't represent them." >=20 > Activists in the Chicago area who have followed > Arellano's story weren't surprised that the law caught > up to her. >=20 > "Everyone knew it was probably a question of when, not > if " she would be arrested, said Joshua Hoyt, > executive director of the Illinois Coalition for > Immigrant and Refugee Rights. "It just made me feel > really sad because she knows she's looking at time in > prison. I feel bad for her and for her child and for > all the other people in that situation." >=20 > Hoyt said he met Arellano nearly three years ago after > she was arrested in a sweep of undocumented immigrants > working at O'Hare International Airport. >=20 > Arellano had been cleaning planes at night, he said. > At the time --"before she was famous," Hoyt noted--she > was afraid, intimidated and ashamed because she had > been arrested by federal agents in front of her son. >=20 > "She was really emotional and really hurt. She was > deeply offended that she would get arrested in front > of her child and be treated like a criminal," Hoyt > said. "She thought someone who comes here to work hard > at night so she can support her child is not a > criminal." >=20 > In the intervening years, however, she turned her pain > to activism, organizing the families of those being > deported, he said. >=20 > "I think she's an incredibly brave person who's put a > human face on the suffering of the undocumented in > this country and because of the cowardice of > politicians, many more families are going to be > destroyed and many more people are going to die on the > borders," Hoyt said. "America needs to look itself in > the face and ask if we want to be that kind of > country." >=20 > The church where Arellano sought sanctuary for the > last year became the command center where friends and > organizers gathered to plan a vigil on Sunday night to > show support for Arellano after her arrest. >=20 > Those who lived with her and knew her best at Alberto > United Methodist Church cried together and hugged each > other but quickly brushed aside the tears, channeling > their grief into action. >=20 > Less than an hour after the arrest, Jacobita Alonso > arrived at the front of the church in tears. For > several minutes, people inside the church struggled to > open the padlock on the gate that for a year had kept > Arellano protected from the outside. >=20 > Work immediately began for a vigil, from phone calls > to alert supporters to getting batteries for the > speakers they would use to take their message to the > street. >=20 > Jacobita Alonso, a lay leader at the church who stayed > with Arellano on the second-floor apartment over the > last year, felt propelled to action. >=20 > "We cannot sit here only grieving. All we can do is > organize our people. We want her to know she is not > alone. The community is crying. Her fight is a fight > for all people," she said Sunday. "There are thousands > of Elviras. There are thousands of mothers just like > Elvira who just want to keep their families together." >=20 > Alonso and a dozen other supporters sat in the > second-floor apartment where Arellano lived, watching > television news broadcasts and sending out messages by > e-mail. >=20 > The group has already organized a vigil for 7 p.m. at > the Immigration and Customs Enforcement office > downtown at Congress Parkway and Clark Street and > another at 9 a.m. at the same location to show support > for Arellano, but also to protest the arrest. >=20 > George Atkins sat in the sanctuary, quitely observing. >=20 > "I'm sad she was arrested, but I'm proud that she was > a member of this church and that I got to know her," > Atkins said. "She always knew she could be arrested. > She could have slipped quietly into the night like > many others do but she chose to stand up for what she > believed in." >=20 > Questions swirled up and down the church stairs. What > would happen to Arellano's son? Where would Arellano > go? Alonso said the boy was with Lozano, her closest > advisor, but she wondered if he would be returned to > Chicago, as Arellano had expressed hope to her many > times before. >=20 > "All I can say is that miracles exist and we're > praying," Alonso said. >=20 > Amid heavy rainfall, about three dozen people sang, > prayed and read passages from the Bible during a vigil > tonight outside the ICE's Chicago headquarters, 536 S. > Clark St., to show their disapproval of her arrest. >=20 > One of the attendees, Ald. Ricardo Munoz (22nd), said, > "It's a sad day. We need comprehensive immigration > reform that keeps families together. A young boy, a > U.S. citizen, lost his mother to a broken system." >=20 > Munoz said, "Elvira has put a face to this struggle. > There are 12 million illegal immigrants that head to > work every morning, not knowing if they'll come home > at the end of the day." >=20 > He said other aldermen would be reaching out to U.S. > Sens. Dick Durbin and Barack Obama for help in > diffusing the situation, and preventing Arellano from > being deported. >=20 > Jorge Mujica, an organizer of the March 10 Committee, > which earlier this year set up a large scale protest > downtown advocating immigration reform, said Arellano > would not have been arrested in Chicago because she > has so much support from city officials and the Latino > community. >=20 > "They waited for the right time. She could not live in > the church forever," Mujica said. >=20 > Up until now, she had been a symbol of the immigration > debate, Mujica said. But now with her arrest she has > become a martyr because "she has suffered unjustly." >=20 > "People who had not heard of Elvira before are going > to hear her story and better understand the debate," > Mujica said. >=20 > Tribune staff reporters Emma Graves Fitzsimmons and > Andrew L. Wang contributed to this report from > Chicago. >=20 > Copyright =A9 2007, Chicago Tribune >=20 >=20 >=20 > =20 > _________________________________________________________________________= _____ > ______ > Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, > news, photos & more. > http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=3D1GNXIC ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 11:36:10 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: NYC Sat./Garden Party with Behrle, Callaci, Goodshank, and Hershon Comments: To: "UB Poetics discussion group "@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="EUC-KR" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Please forward -------------------- =20 Garden Party with Olive Juice Music and Boog City =20 Concludes its 2nd annual season Sat., Aug. 25, 2:00 p.m., free =20 a summer series, in the Suffolk Street Community Garden 174 Suffolk St., bet. Houston & Stanton sts. NYC =20 poems from=20 Jim Behrle and Bob Hershon =20 music from=20 Allen Callaci and Toby Goodshank New this season, will be each musical act taking a poem from that day's poet(s) and turning it into a song for the event, and the poets turning son= g lyrics by each musical act into a poem. Curated and with introductions by Olive Juice Music head Matt Roth and Boog City editor and publisher David Kirschenbaum --------- =20 **Olive Juice Music http://olivejuicemusic.com/ Olive Juice Music is a D.I.Y. label, studio, and mail-order distributor based in New York City and interested in helping people who are in the developmental stages of trying to do something with their art. Olive Juice Music is not a traditional record label. The artists associated with Olive Juice take an active part in how their music is produced, financed, and marketed. They in turn receive more of the profits gained from the sales of their records directly, which is how it should be. The strength of Olive Juice relies upon the active participation of its members to share resource= s and help promote a communal spirit among everyone involved as well as claiming responsibility for taking their art to wherever they would like it to go. **Boog City http://www.welcometoboogcity.com/ Boog City is a New York City-based small press now in its 16th year and Eas= t Village community newspaper of the same name. It has also published 35 volumes of poetry and various magazines, featuring work by Allen Ginsberg and Lawrence Ferlinghetti among others, and theme issues on baseball, women=A9=F6s writing, and Louisville, Ky. It hosts and curates two regular performance series--d.a. levy lives: celebrating the renegade press, where each month a non-NYC small press and its writers and a musical act of their choosing is hosted at Chelsea's ACA Galleries; and Classic Albums Live, where 5-13 local musical acts perform a classic album live at venues including The Bowery Poetry Club, CBGB's, Cakeshop, and The Knitting Factory. Past albums have included Elvis Costello, My Aim is True; Carole King, Tapestry; Nirvana, Nevermind; and Liz Phair, Exile in Guyville. =20 *Performer Bios: **Jim Behrle http://www.greatestlivingpoet.blogspot.com/ http://gawker.com/news/kreepie-kats/ Jim Behrle's She's My Best Friend was released in 2006 by Pressed Wafer. His cartoons appear on Gawker, in The Stranger, and on his above site. **Allen Callaci http://www.myspace.com/lonesomesurprise Allen Callaci is the singer for the band Refrigerator who have been putting lo-fi noise pop things out on Shrimper records (home of Herman Dune, Mountain Goats, the Woods etc) since the crayola colored era of the cassette. He is probably best known for appearing on the Mountain Goats "Nine Black Poppies" CD on the Goat's cover of Refrigerator song "Lonesome Surprise"...or maybe not. Mr. Callaci hails from the smog infested tragically comic suburbs of Southern California's Inland Empire which probably explains a lot... **Toby Goodshank http://www.myspace.com/tobygoodshank A prolific performer, Goodshank inhabits the stages of NYC both solo and with bands Double Deuce (along with sister Angela Babyskin) and The Tri-Lambs (with Angela and her sister Crystal Babyskin). These projects hav= e "Goodshank" written all over them, with his signature heart-felt pornographic tendencies lending the songs a sense of erotic wonder and innocence. If Anti-Folk has ever known a legend in the making, destined to have his records collected by the troubled teenagers of the future, it is Toby Goodshank. =20 **Bob Hershon http://www.thebrooklynrail.org/books/fall02/roberthershon.html Robert Hershon is the author of 12 books of poetry, the newest being Calls from the Outside World, (2006). Others include The German Lunatic and Into = a Punchline: Poems 1986-1996. His work has appeared in more than 40 anthologies and in such journals as American Poetry Review, Poetry Northwest, The World, The Nation, TriQuarterly, Verse, Chicago Review, and New American Writing. Among his awards are two Creative Writing Fellowships from the National Endowment for the Arts and three from the New York Foundation on the Arts. =20 Hershon also serves as co-editor of Hanging Loose Press, one of the country=A1=AFs oldest independent publishers. Hanging Loose has published a magazine since 1966 and has done books since 1972, presenting the work of such writers as Sherman Alexie, Ha Jin, Kimiko Hahn, Hettie Jones, Tony Towle, Chuck Wachtel, Harvey Shapiro, and Paul Violi. =20 Hershon has taught for Teachers & Writers Collaborative and Saint Ann=A1=AFs School, as well as fulfilling shorter residencies at the University of Michigan and the College of William and Mary. Since 1976, he has served as executive director of The Print Center, Inc., a non-profit facility which provides printing services to literary publishers, schools and colleges, an= d other arts and community organizations. He also curates the popular Poets Coffeehouse reading series at the Brooklyn Public Library=A1=AFs main branch. =20 He lives in Brooklyn, N.Y., with his wife, Donna Brook, a poet and children=A1=AFs book author, and has two grown children. --------- Directions: F to Second Ave. =20 -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://www.welcometoboogcity.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 11:32:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Kelleher Subject: Literary Buffalo E-Newsletter 8.20.07-8.26.07 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable LITERARY BUFFALO 8.20.07-8.26.07 BABEL 11 DAYS LEFT TO GET EARLY BIRD MEMBER SUBSCRIPTION RATES FOR BABEL SUBSCRIBE TODAY at http://www.justbuffalo.org/babel or by calling 832-5400. Just Buffalo Literary Center is proud to introduce BABEL, an exciting new r= eading and conversation series that will feature four of the world's most i= mportant and critically acclaimed international authors each year. In our first season, we will present two Nobel Prize winners, one Man Booke= r Prize winner, and an acclaimed Broadway playwright. Here's the season in = a nutshell: November 8 Orhan Pamuk, Turkey, Winner of the 2006 Nobel Prize December 7 Ariel Dorfman, Chile, Author of Death and the Maiden March 13 Derek Walcott, St. Lucia, Winner of the 1992 Nobel Prize April 24 Kiran Desai, India, Winner of the 2006 Man Booker Prize Members of Just Buffalo/CEPA Gallery/Big Orbit Gallery, Hallwalls and the I= nternational Institute of Buffalo can subscribe to this series at an early = bird member discount from now until September 1 at a special member rate of= =2460. Book groups (minimum three people) can also subscribe at a special rate of = =2460 per person for the whole season. Book group subscriptions by phone on= ly at 832-5400. Regular subscriptions are just =2475. To subscribe or to find out more about the authors, click here: http://www.justbuffalo.org/babel. EVENTS 8.26.07 Spoken Word Sundays Anthony Neal and James Stevens Sunday, August 26, 8 p.m. Allen Street Hardware, 245 Allen St., Buffalo Sign up at 7:45 for Open readers (5 minutes each) JUST BUFFALO WRITER'S CRITIQUE GROUP =21=21=21 WRITER CRITIQUE GROUP IS ON SUMMER HIATUS. WE'LL RETURN IN SEPTEM= BER =21=21=21 Members of Just Buffalo are welcome to attend a free, bi-monthly writer cri= tique group in CEPA's Flux Gallery on the first floor of the historic Marke= t Arcade Building across the street from Shea's. Group meets 1st and 3rd We= dnesday at 7 p.m. Call Just Buffalo for details. WESTERN NEW YORK ROMANCE WRITERS group meets the third Wednesday of every m= onth at St. Joseph Hospital community room at 11a.m. Address: 2605 Harlem R= oad, Cheektowaga, NY 14225. For details go to www.wnyrw.org. JOIN JUST BUFFALO ONLINE=21=21=21 If you would like to join Just Buffalo, or simply make a massive personal d= onation, you can do so online using your credit card. We have recently add= ed the ability to join online by paying with a credit card through PayPal. = Simply click on the membership level at which you would like to join, log = in (or create a PayPal account using your Visa/Amex/Mastercard/Discover), a= nd voil=E1, you will find yourself in literary heaven. For more info, or t= o join now, go to our website: http://www.justbuffalo.org/membership/index.shtml UNSUBSCRIBE If you would like to unsubscribe from this list, just say so and you will b= e immediately removed. _______________________________ Michael Kelleher Artistic Director Just Buffalo Literary Center Market Arcade 617 Main St., Ste. 202A Buffalo, NY 14203 716.832.5400 716.270.0184 (fax) www.justbuffalo.org mjk=40justbuffalo.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 12:10:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: robert archambeau's email? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit anyone got robert's email? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 10:51:16 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adam Fieled Subject: Re: robert archambeau's email? In-Reply-To: <46C9CB0D.7070909@ilstu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit archambeaux@sbcglobal.net Best, Ad Gabriel Gudding wrote: anyone got robert's email? --------------------------------- Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 15:31:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: rochelle owens' email MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit could someone please backchannel an email address for Rochelle Owens --? thx much gabe ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 15:59:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Soon to be released: POEMS FROM GUANT=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=C1NAMO?= In-Reply-To: <5450EEB8-001B-4AD0-BF0A-7ACF4D893BA4@uiowa.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i got this book already, it's a knockout. super-powerful. i ordered it for a senior seminar. Allison Thomas wrote: > http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118217520339739055.html?mod=todays_us_nonsub_page_one > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Allison Thomas > Associate Marketing Manager > University of Iowa Press > 119 West Park Road > Iowa City, IA 52242 > (ph) 319/335-2015 > (fax) 319/335-2055 > allison-thomas@uiowa.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 18:03:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: heidi arnold Subject: blog MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline colleagues and friends, my blog is updated at www.peaceraptor.blogspot.com brief statements on independence and autonomy scrolling down, a brief meditation on my father, a chemist who worked in copper and salt mines, and who was killed in 1981 other than that, a hiatus from online work until 2008, being on the road peace, and on with the good work to stop all forms of totalitarian, military agression heidi -- www.heidiarnold.org http://peaceraptor.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 15:15:03 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Re: Disarming the teaching of history in Israel and Palestine In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear Jim-- does this organization still exist? trying to learn more of it online, the last dated entries for it i can find are from October 2005 i noted on the information at your site that of phases listed as having been completed, the last one seems to be 2004. The funding for the first three years is listed as from the US State Department and Ford Foundation. Most of what is at the site seems to be about proposals, rather than actual current or recent events. Is there any way to find out what the current status is? East Jerusalem, mentioned in one of the articles as being the source for a student quote, is now almost impossible for Palestinians from the outside to enter. The new "Separation" road on which Palestians are allowed to travel on the other side of a Wall --painted to simulate mosaics--has only three exits in toto, none for East Jerusalem. (The road was featured in a front page story on the NY Times as i recall 11 august 2007.) The Wall, Security Fences, "Settlers Only" roads, continual checkpoints and the annual growth rate in numbers of the illegal settler population now exceeding that of Israel itself, have all put so many obstacles in the way of Palestinians attending schools, tech schools and Universities that the educational system for Palestinians, along with everything else, is in ruins. (500, 000 in the West Bank currently receive 67% of the amount of water per person per year considered the minimum for human survival. 80% of Gaza is on the verge of starvation. Demolitions, arrests, beatings, deaths from IDF and settlers occur on a daily basis. Amnesty International has issued Ethnic Cleansing calls for a stop a few days ago in the Jordan Valley. The Knesset is debating a law prohibiting Israeli Abba citizens from purchasing their own land from the National Public Lands in Israel. ) Just to get to a still existing school is becoming prohibitively difficult, as well as more and more dangerous. (Amnesty International reported that of 124 Palestinian children killed last year, 80 were due to sniper fire from the IDF or settlers. The children's fatal wounds were in the area of the upper back and neck at base of the skull. They had been shot from behind, execution style.) A great number of schools throughout the Occupied Territories have also been bulldozed, or appropriated by the IDF for surveillance posts, or given to settlers to use for other purposes. Education to bring understanding and a desire for peace is being destroyed, while the seeds of hate, despair, death, are being sown. Inside the Walled off out door prisons, without water, starving, shot at, bombed, homes, hospitals, schools demolished, electricity long gone, continually threatened and bullied, arrested, disappeared, if the prisoners turn against themselves, all the better for the warders. Meanwhile, the Occupiers, the only nuclear power in the Mideast, now the world's 4th largest exporter of weapons and security systems, technologies, equipment will be receiving over 3 billion dollars a year more in US military aid starting shortly. On 8/16/07, Jim Andrews wrote: > As some of you may recall, vispo.com hosts the Web site of PRIME, the Peace > Research Institute in the Middle East. PRIME is mainly run by Dan Bar-On, an > Israeli scholar, and Sammi Adwan, a Palestinian scholar. > > There are two new documents on the Web site you may find of interest. > > LEARNING EACH OTHER'S HISTORICAL NARRATIVE > http://vispo.com/PRIME/leohn1.pdf > This is a preliminary translation into English of a document developed by > Israeli and Palestinian High school teachers that presents to grade 9 and 10 > students in Israel and Palestine something of the historical narrative of > the 'other side'. This project is an attempt to "disarm the teaching of > history". There are articles about this project at > http://vispo.com/PRIME/patience.htm (a copy of a USA Today article) and at > http://vispo.com/PRIME/herzog.htm (a copy of an article from the Globe and > Mail). This PRIME project was awarded the inaugual Goldberg IIE prize for > peace-building in the middle east (see > http://vispo.com/PRIME/goldbergprize.htm ). > > THE PRIME SHARED HISTORY PROJECT > Peace-Building Project Under Fire > http://vispo.com/PRIME/iram192.pdf > This is an article by Dan Bar-On and Sami Adwan concerning the background > and some of the research concerning the 'Learning Each Other's Historical > Narrative' project. > > ja > http://vispo.com > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 07:45:55 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alexander Jorgensen Subject: The pretense of War on Terror and Defense of 'FREEDOM' Comments: To: Alex , Heidi Arnold , Raymond Bianchi , Daniel Bradley , David-Baptiste Chirot , Pen Creeley , Geoffrey Gatza , Daniel Godston , Niels hav , Matt Henriksen , Ray Jorgensen , Amy King , Ruth Lepson , Jonathan Litton , Alan Magayne-Roshak , Steve Nessen , Harry Nudel , orry , Patrick , Deborah Poe , Charlie Rossiter , Philip Rowland , suspend@earthlink.net, Katherine Wilson In-Reply-To: <566102.16676.qm@web54607.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Russian and Chinese military maneuvers. Chechnya and Turkestan. Pretense: War on Terror! Russia intimidating Czech Republic on anniversary of Prague Spring. Go to Youtube.com ID: endemic001 Password: creeley I was in the area when this happened. http://youtube.com/watch?v=iDdeW2qhZ2M http://youtube.com/watch?v=hKcRTfpogAM RFK: "...the peace of a cemetery and the security of the enslaved'. Onward and inward, as they say - Alexander Jorgensen -- Marcus Aurelius: "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 07:59:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Poems From Guant=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E1namo:?= The Detainees S peak - Books - Review - New York Times MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline this is a rather strange review-- http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/19/books/review/Chiasson-t.html?_r=1&ref=books&oref=slogin --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 10:23:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Poems From Guant=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E1namo:?= The Detainees S peak - Books - Review - New York Time s In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit yes, a little too politically correct for its own good. David Chirot wrote: > this is a rather strange review-- > > http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/19/books/review/Chiasson-t.html?_r=1&ref=books&oref=slogin > --- > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 08:32:26 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jennifer Karmin Subject: Elvira Arellano deported MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/08/20/immigration_activist_deported_to_mexico/?rss_id=Boston.com+%2F+News U.S. deports sanctuary movement's symbol By Elliot Spagat, Associated Press Writer August 20, 2007 TIJUANA, Mexico --An illegal immigrant who took refuge in a Chicago church for a year to avoid being separated from her American-born son was deported from the United States to Mexico, where she vowed Monday to continue her campaign to change U.S. immigration laws. Elvira Arellano, 32, became an activist and a national symbol for illegal immigrant parents as she defied her deportation order and spoke out from her sanctuary. She announced last week that she was leaving the Adalberto United Methodist Church to try to lobby U.S. lawmakers. She had just spoken at a Los Angeles rally when she was arrested Sunday outside Our Lady Queen of Angels church and deported, said the Rev. Walter Coleman, pastor of Adalberto United Methodist. "They were in a hurry to deport me because they saw that I was threatening to mobilize and organize the people to fight for legalization," Arellano said in Spanish outside a Tijuana apartment building where she was staying with a friend. "I have a fighting spirit and I'm going to continue fighting." Arellano, who said she is a single mother, left her 8-year-old son, Saul, in the care of Coelman's family. She said he might be brought to her in Tijuana sometime Monday. "He is a little bit sick because of the situation we find ourselves in," she said. "I'm going to ask if he wants to stay with me or if he wants to return to his school" in the United States. The boy hid behind the pastor's wife and wiped away tears during a news conference in Los Angeles. Mexican authorities did not know the identity or whereabouts of the boy's father, said Luis Cabrera, Mexico's general consul in San Diego. Opponents of illegal immigration said Arellano's arrest was overdue, and a U.S. immigration official said she had been a criminal fugitive. Mexican authorities said the deportation highlighted a need to overhaul U.S. immigration laws. "It's tragic when a mother is separated from her son," Cabrera said. Arellano asked to speak with Mexican officials in Los Angeles but was denied, Cabrera said. She was not given access until hours later, at San Diego's Otay Mesa immigration detention center. U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement was unaware of any request that Arellano made to speak with Mexican officials in Los Angeles, and Arellano was given extensive access in San Diego Sunday night, agency spokeswoman Lauren Mack said. Arellano was deported at San Diego's San Ysidro border crossing around 10 p.m. PDT after U.S. authorities determined that she had exhausted her legal recourse. "This was a very, very sensitive removal for us as well as Mexico," Mack said. Arellano said the deportation process was "very quick." She said she may return to her home in the Mexican state of Michoacan and then return to Tijuana in September for a demonstration coinciding with planned immigration protests in the United States. Jim Hayes, director of ICE in Los Angeles, said "proper perspective" should be placed on the woman's case. Using a false identity, as in the case of Arellano, who was convicted of using someone else's Social Security number, can be a threat to national security, he said. "We don't think she's a martyr," Hayes said. "She was a criminal fugitive who is in violation of the law." Anti-illegal immigrant groups applauded the arrest. "Just because the woman has gone public and made an issue of the fact that she is defying law doesn't mean the government doesn't have to do its job," said Ira Mehlman of the Federation for American Immigration Reform. Arellano arrived in Washington state illegally in 1997. She was soon deported to Mexico, but returned and moved to Illinois in 2000, taking a job cleaning planes at O'Hare International Airport. She was arrested in 2002 at O'Hare and convicted of working under a false Social Security number. She was to surrender to authorities a year ago but instead sought refuge at the church on Aug. 15, 2006. Immigration activists said they will continue Arellano's plan to go to Washington, D.C., and take part in a prayer meeting and rally for immigration reform on Sept. 12. They also called for a national boycott on that date. The sentiment was echoed outside an ICE office in Chicago on Monday. "Her voice will not be silenced," activist Jacobita Alonzo told a crowd of about 50 supporters. ------ Associated Press writers Sophia Tareen and Michael Tarm in Chicago and Peter Prengaman, Raquel Maria Dillon and Greg Risling in Los Angeles contributed to this report. © Copyright 2007 The New York Times Company ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 10:38:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: 5th San Francisco International Poetry Festival - 11th - 14th October, 2007 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable is anyone in List-land involved with this festival? I've been deputized = by the Consul General of Norway to get the word out about Steinar = Opstand, a Norwegian poet who is expected to attend... I can't find a = formal website for the festival.=20 here's a piece by Opstand: Jeg har delt kropp med enfoldige og opplyste med straffed=F8mte og l=E6rde men aldri har jeg forenklet min sjel For gaven jeg fikk var enkelheten Og det vi gir naturen f=E5r vi tilbake fra naturen For naturen er et menneske mindre enn et sandkorn og st=F8rre enn et fjell Og kj=E6rligheten ligner synene til et jaget dyr I enkelheten f=E5r enhver seire eller forg=E5 Jeg sukker, der andre roper Jeg ler, der andre sovner Jeg kysser =F8ynene dine og lukker mine I have given my body to the ignorant and the enlightened=20 the sentenced and the studious=20 but I have never simplified my soul=20 For the gift I received was simplicity And what we give to nature we receive from nature=20 For nature is a human being=20 smaller than a grain of sand and greater than a mountain=20 And love lies like the visions of a hunted animal=20 In simplicity all will triumph or perish=20 I sigh, while others shout=20 I laugh, while others sleep=20 I kiss your eyes and close mine=20 trans. Anthony Barnett =20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 11:48:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Latta Subject: Re: blog In-Reply-To: <11d43b500708201503g39f1f39ek782f07e56b896306@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Apparently, announcements of blog writings are allowed by the List Moderator. Which makes one wonder why mine of a few days back was disallowed. http://isola-di-rifiuti.blogspot.com/ Indescribable contents! JL On Mon, 20 Aug 2007, heidi arnold wrote: > colleagues and friends, > > my blog is updated at www.peaceraptor.blogspot.com > > brief statements on independence and autonomy > scrolling down, a brief meditation on my father, a chemist who worked in > copper and salt mines, and who was killed in 1981 > > other than that, a hiatus from online work until 2008, being on the road > > peace, and on with the good work to stop all forms of totalitarian, military > agression > > heidi > > -- > www.heidiarnold.org > http://peaceraptor.blogspot.com/ > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 12:34:15 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: Fwd on behalf of Nick Carbo & Poetics List Note MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Please note: All messages posted to the Poetics List must be sent via POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Please review guidelines here: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html Subscribers only may post to the Poetics List. Send messages directly to the list address: poetics@listserv.buffalo.edu. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: NickCarbo@aol.com Date: Aug 20, 2007 9:26 PM Subject: liam To: poetics.list@gmail.com Liam Rector, a well-regarded poet and educator whose work appeared in many distinguished publications, shot himself on Wednesday morning at his home in Greenwich Village. He was 57. Mr. Rector, who had been treated for cancer and heart trouble in the past, left a note in which he expressed distress over his health, his wife, Tree Swenson, said. At his death, Mr. Rector was the director of the Writing Seminars at Bennington College; he had founded the seminars there in 1994. He had also taught at Columbia University, New School University, Emerson College, and elsewhere. Mr. Rector's work appeared in The Paris Review, The New Republic, Ploughshares, and other publications. He published three volumes of poetry: "The Sorrow of Architecture" (Dragon Gate, 1984); "American Prodigal" (Story Line, 1994); and "The Executive Director of the Fallen World" (University of Chicago, 2006). Reviewing "The Executive Director of the Fallen World" in the Washington Post, Robert Pinsky said that Mr. Rector "expresses a stringent yet generous tone toward the profane, ignoble world of his title." He added: "There's a forgiving element, a sad shrug and smile, in the idea that the vulnerabilities, failings, and dreams of our early 20s persist, somewhere in us, for the rest of life." Ronald Edward Rector was born in Washington on Nov. 21, 1949; he took the name Liam as an adult. Mr. Rector did undergraduate work at several colleges without receiving a degree. He was nonetheless accepted for graduate work in the Writing Seminars at Johns Hopkins University, from which he received a master's degree in 1978. In 1992, he earned a master's in public administration from the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard. Mr. Rector's first two marriages ended in divorce. Besides his wife, Swenson, the president and executive director of the Academy of American Poets, Mr. Rector leaves a daughter from his second marriage, Virginia of Brooklyn, and two stepbrothers. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 09:45:36 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: Poems From Guant=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E1namo:?= The Detainees S peak - Books - Review - New York Time s In-Reply-To: <46CB035C.3060907@umn.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I got a review copy of the book. Frankly, it is sitting right here on the floor next to me because I really don't know how to review such censored material (the intro mentions that the people involved feel the best poets detained are not included, because they and their poems are too political, which in some ways seems another ploy). It does seem to have been published in order to sell books. It is kind of like the Romeo & Juliet story set in Boston flower shops I just read. It is made for a book club discussion. The book tells you the talking points. All best, Catherine On 8/21/07, Maria Damon wrote: > yes, a little too politically correct for its own good. > > David Chirot wrote: > > this is a rather strange review-- > > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/19/books/review/Chiasson-t.html?_r=1&ref=books&oref=slogin > > --- > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 14:01:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Felt Press Subject: The Sorrow And The Fast Of It by Nathalie Stephens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Now available! $12 Online special ($2.95 off list price + free shipping) THE SORROW AND THE FAST OF IT by Nathalie Stephens Nightboat Books ISBN: 0976718553 or 978-0-976718550 Literature. 5.5" x 7", 108 pages http://www.nightboat.org/The_Sorrow.htm THE SORROW AND THE FAST OF IT exists in a middle place: an overlay of indistinct geographies and trajectories. Strained between the bodies of Nathalie and Nathana=EBl, between dissolution and abjection, between the borders that limit the body in its built environment--the city and its name(s), the countries, the border crossings--the narrative, splintered and fractured, dislocates its own compulsion. This text addresses the maddened and the maddening, but what is madness away from the language(s) that might enclose it? These finely calibrated, delicately gauged sentences =96 one could say prose verses =96 walk along the echoic edges of urbanism. They compose a book-length monologue that remains deeply solitary, even when it modulates and reappears as erasure, or rather, corrective, into dialogue. Attuned to a canine pitch beyond the threshold where pain manifests in human organs, Nathalie Stephens navigates as a river a close course over surfaces we may have overlooked without her guiding voice, eye, and persistence, from source to sea. =09=09=09 =96 Matthew Goul= ish THE SORROW AND THE FAST OF IT is a severe and tender book in its "incalculable" correspondence between ocean and ground; the one who writes, and the one who receives. A "paper thin" and "fretting" text, Nathalie Stephens writes from the city to where the road "caves in," breaking her own heart, and ours, in the process. This is a necessary work. =96 Bhanu Kapil The son-daughter of H=E9l=E8ne Cixous and Jean Genet, Stephens is obsessed by breaking free, only to find herself broken, brakeless. Eroded by what she cannot erase, halved by a dual 'I,' she writes in a splayed metropolis of traces and of trauma, where "it is reductive to speak either of autonomy or a bind. The madness disallows this." =96 Andrew Zawacki, How2 Nathalie Stephens (Nathana=EBl) writes l'entre-genre in English and French. She is the author of a dozen published works, including TOUCH TO AFFLICTION, a finalist for the 2007 Lambda Literary Awards, PAPER CITY, JE NATHANAEL, and L'INJURE, a finalist for the 2005 Prix Alain-Grandbois and Prix Trillium. Born in Montreal, she currently resides in Chicago, where she teaches at The School of the Art Institute. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 11:04:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: barbara jane bermeo Subject: Re: 5th San Francisco International Poetry Festival - 11th - 14th October, 2007 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://www.sfintlpoetryfest.org/ The above is the website for the SF International Poetry Festival which took place in July 2007. ---------- http://barbarajanereyes.com http://poetaensanfrancisco.blog-city.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 11:14:57 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: Elvira Arellano deported In-Reply-To: <623481.10471.qm@web31011.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit You can't trust those American angels. They all work for the government and get paid by the number of people they turn in. What a sin! Children get abused, too. Jennifer Karmin wrote: http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/08/20/immigration_activist_deported_to_mexico/?rss_id=Boston.com+%2F+News U.S. deports sanctuary movement's symbol By Elliot Spagat, Associated Press Writer August 20, 2007 TIJUANA, Mexico --An illegal immigrant who took refuge in a Chicago church for a year to avoid being separated from her American-born son was deported from the United States to Mexico, where she vowed Monday to continue her campaign to change U.S. immigration laws. Elvira Arellano, 32, became an activist and a national symbol for illegal immigrant parents as she defied her deportation order and spoke out from her sanctuary. She announced last week that she was leaving the Adalberto United Methodist Church to try to lobby U.S. lawmakers. She had just spoken at a Los Angeles rally when she was arrested Sunday outside Our Lady Queen of Angels church and deported, said the Rev. Walter Coleman, pastor of Adalberto United Methodist. "They were in a hurry to deport me because they saw that I was threatening to mobilize and organize the people to fight for legalization," Arellano said in Spanish outside a Tijuana apartment building where she was staying with a friend. "I have a fighting spirit and I'm going to continue fighting." Arellano, who said she is a single mother, left her 8-year-old son, Saul, in the care of Coelman's family. She said he might be brought to her in Tijuana sometime Monday. "He is a little bit sick because of the situation we find ourselves in," she said. "I'm going to ask if he wants to stay with me or if he wants to return to his school" in the United States. The boy hid behind the pastor's wife and wiped away tears during a news conference in Los Angeles. Mexican authorities did not know the identity or whereabouts of the boy's father, said Luis Cabrera, Mexico's general consul in San Diego. Opponents of illegal immigration said Arellano's arrest was overdue, and a U.S. immigration official said she had been a criminal fugitive. Mexican authorities said the deportation highlighted a need to overhaul U.S. immigration laws. "It's tragic when a mother is separated from her son," Cabrera said. Arellano asked to speak with Mexican officials in Los Angeles but was denied, Cabrera said. She was not given access until hours later, at San Diego's Otay Mesa immigration detention center. U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement was unaware of any request that Arellano made to speak with Mexican officials in Los Angeles, and Arellano was given extensive access in San Diego Sunday night, agency spokeswoman Lauren Mack said. Arellano was deported at San Diego's San Ysidro border crossing around 10 p.m. PDT after U.S. authorities determined that she had exhausted her legal recourse. "This was a very, very sensitive removal for us as well as Mexico," Mack said. Arellano said the deportation process was "very quick." She said she may return to her home in the Mexican state of Michoacan and then return to Tijuana in September for a demonstration coinciding with planned immigration protests in the United States. Jim Hayes, director of ICE in Los Angeles, said "proper perspective" should be placed on the woman's case. Using a false identity, as in the case of Arellano, who was convicted of using someone else's Social Security number, can be a threat to national security, he said. "We don't think she's a martyr," Hayes said. "She was a criminal fugitive who is in violation of the law." Anti-illegal immigrant groups applauded the arrest. "Just because the woman has gone public and made an issue of the fact that she is defying law doesn't mean the government doesn't have to do its job," said Ira Mehlman of the Federation for American Immigration Reform. Arellano arrived in Washington state illegally in 1997. She was soon deported to Mexico, but returned and moved to Illinois in 2000, taking a job cleaning planes at O'Hare International Airport. She was arrested in 2002 at O'Hare and convicted of working under a false Social Security number. She was to surrender to authorities a year ago but instead sought refuge at the church on Aug. 15, 2006. Immigration activists said they will continue Arellano's plan to go to Washington, D.C., and take part in a prayer meeting and rally for immigration reform on Sept. 12. They also called for a national boycott on that date. The sentiment was echoed outside an ICE office in Chicago on Monday. "Her voice will not be silenced," activist Jacobita Alonzo told a crowd of about 50 supporters. ------ Associated Press writers Sophia Tareen and Michael Tarm in Chicago and Peter Prengaman, Raquel Maria Dillon and Greg Risling in Los Angeles contributed to this report. © Copyright 2007 The New York Times Company ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433 --------------------------------- Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 11:29:58 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: Poems From Guant=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E1namo:?= The Detainees S peak - Books - Review - New York Times In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I'd rather read the poems than the review. But since this book(?) is a government production, I'm certainly not going to pay for it. And, of course, it is suspect. David Chirot wrote: this is a rather strange review-- http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/19/books/review/Chiasson-t.html?_r=1&ref=books&oref=slogin --- --------------------------------- Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 12:04:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: patrick dunagan Subject: Fwd: 5th San Francisco International Poetry Festival - 11th - 14th October, 2007 In-Reply-To: <364324.39046.qm@web82703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline This is the website for the previous SF International poetry festival (2005): http://www.be-space.com/OtherWords/ This year's upcoming one is listed on SF State's Poetry Center's Calendar: http://www.sfsu.edu/~poetry/eventCalendar.html I'd try contacting SF State's Poetry Center: THE POETRY CENTER San Francisco State University 1600 Holloway Avenue San Francisco, CA 94132 Tele: 415 338 2227 FAX: 415 338 0966 email: poetry@sfsu.edu http://www.sfintlpoetryfest.org was a separate festival ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: barbara jane bermeo Date: 21/08/2007 11:04 Subject: Re: 5th San Francisco International Poetry Festival - 11th - 14th October, 2007 To: POETICS@listserv.buffalo.edu http://www.sfintlpoetryfest.org/ The above is the website for the SF International Poetry Festival which took place in July 2007. ---------- http://barbarajanereyes.com http://poetaensanfrancisco.blog-city.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 14:42:01 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: Re: 5th San Francisco International Poetry Festival - 11th - 14th October, 2007 Comments: cc: noemata@gmail.com In-Reply-To: <364324.39046.qm@web82703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable apparently there's another one going down in October, possibly = unaffiliated with the July event: the CG of Norway sent me a bunch of = planning info on it, including a list of poets who've been invited: 5th San Francisco International Poetry Festival 11th - 14th October, 2007 =20 Poet Language=20 Bastian Boettcher German=20 Emidio Clementi Italian =20 Works by Bodil Malmsten, performed by Katzen Kapell Swedish=20 Cathal O Searcaigh =09 Demosthenes Agrafiotis Greek =09 Nguyen Do Vietnamese =20 Emmanuel Hocquard French =20 J=FCrg Halter German =20 Ales Debeljak Slovenian =20 Steinar Opstad Norwegian Martin Reiner Czech =20 some background here: http://www.be-space.com/html/otherwords.htm Kit Schulte seems to be running the thing, if you're looking for more = information: kit@be-space.com -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] = On Behalf Of barbara jane bermeo Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 13:05 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: 5th San Francisco International Poetry Festival - 11th - = 14th October, 2007 http://www.sfintlpoetryfest.org/ The above is the website for the SF International Poetry Festival which took place in July 2007. =20 ---------- =20 http://barbarajanereyes.com http://poetaensanfrancisco.blog-city.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 17:48:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: Re: Poems From Guant=?iso-8859-1?Q?=E1namo:?= The Detainees S peak - Bo oks - Review - New York Times In-Reply-To: <54789.90538.qm@web31113.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable when I first heard of this book back in June, I wrote up my initial = thoughts on its publication and what that means -- http://minnesotan-ice.blogspot.com/2007/06/expectations-from-art-what-is-= art-for.html#links I still don't know what it means, other than the detained in = Guant=E1namo shouldn't be there, and capitalizing on "their" words = doesn't seem right. allowing a voice for the voiceless? that sounds like = ad copy more than a call for justice. tl -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] = On Behalf Of Thomas savage Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 13:30 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Poems From Guant=E1namo: The Detainees S peak - Books - = Review - New York Times I'd rather read the poems than the review. But since this book(?) is a = government production, I'm certainly not going to pay for it. And, of = course, it is suspect. David Chirot wrote: this is a rather strange = review-- http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/19/books/review/Chiasson-t.html?_r=3D1&ref= =3Dbooks&oref=3Dslogin --- =20 --------------------------------- Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.=20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 15:00:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ryan Daley Subject: Re: Poems From Guant=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E1namo:?= The Detainees S peak - Books - Review - New York Times In-Reply-To: <54789.90538.qm@web31113.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I think it's great that the review mentions this. Chiasson's "Forget Guantanamo Poetry" review. Ryan On 8/21/07, Thomas savage wrote: > > I'd rather read the poems than the review. But since this book(?) is a > government production, I'm certainly not going to pay for it. And, of > course, it is suspect. > > David Chirot wrote: this is a rather strange > review-- > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/19/books/review/Chiasson-t.html?_r=1&ref=books&oref=slogin > --- > > > > --------------------------------- > Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 02:00:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: future of the symbol war MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed future of the symbol solar { denotation } http://www.asondheim.org/yesyes.mp4 satellite { connotation } http://www.asondheim.org/bloodchora1.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/bloodchora2.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/bloodchora3.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/bloodchora4.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/bloodchora5.jpg re/produced in 2nd life.yesyes with sandy baldwin. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 06:56:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Poems From Guant=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E1namo/RIP?= Sa cco & Vanzetti 22 August 1927 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On the 80th anniversary of the deaths of two American political prisoners, Sacco and Vanzetti- Highly recommend the book by Bruce Watson just out: Sacco and Vanzetti The Men, the Murders and the Judgement of the World Ryan and Tom: Don't you both think that what you are thinking and saying here is exactly what you are SUPPOSED to be thinking and saying? "Chiasson's 'Forget Guantanamo Poetry' review" (Ryan) "I'm certainly not going to pay for it" "And of course, it is suspect" (Thomas Savage) The Military and the Poetics Powers will both be proud of you!! A "bad poetry" book by "bad" people held as "suspects" in the "bad" prison and given a "bad" translation , a product of both the "bad" Pentagon and "bad" poets/suspects and "bad" "exploiting" of the situation. A great victory for the safety and security of the American way, in truth, justice and poetry! No "terrorist" will be allowed to challenge the hegemony of American poetics on our own shores! > Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 15:00:29 -0400 > From: rcdaley@GMAIL.COM > Subject: Re: Poems From Guant=E1namo: The Detainees S peak - Books - Revi= ew - New York Times > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > I think it's great that the review mentions this. Chiasson's "Forget > Guantanamo Poetry" review. > > Ryan > > On 8/21/07, Thomas savage wrote: > > > > I'd rather read the poems than the review. But since this book(?) is a > > government production, I'm certainly not going to pay for it. And, of > > course, it is suspect. > > > > David Chirot wrote: this is a rather strange > > review-- > > > > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/19/books/review/Chiasson-t.html?_r=3D1&r= ef=3Dbooks&oref=3Dslogin > > --- > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. > > ________________________________ Get news, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. Check it= out! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 08:57:01 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Poems From Guant=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E1namo:?= The Detainees S peak - Bo oks - Review - New York T imes In-Reply-To: <54AA9B41BC35F34EAD02E660901D8A5A0EE69CF7@TLRUSMNEAGMBX10.ERF.THOMSON.COM> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit you know, i really don't think this a US govt enterprise. that the pentagon cleared a few poems doesn't make it a govt-sponsored or govt-produced event. i was skeptical too until i got the book. dan chiasson was just sounding off and trying to find a way to not respond from the heart. Tom W. Lewis wrote: > when I first heard of this book back in June, I wrote up my initial thoughts on its publication and what that means -- > > http://minnesotan-ice.blogspot.com/2007/06/expectations-from-art-what-is-art-for.html#links > > I still don't know what it means, other than the detained in Guantánamo shouldn't be there, and capitalizing on "their" words doesn't seem right. allowing a voice for the voiceless? that sounds like ad copy more than a call for justice. > > tl > > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Thomas savage > Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 13:30 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Poems From Guantánamo: The Detainees S peak - Books - Review - New York Times > > I'd rather read the poems than the review. But since this book(?) is a government production, I'm certainly not going to pay for it. And, of course, it is suspect. > > David Chirot wrote: this is a rather strange review-- > > http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/19/books/review/Chiasson-t.html?_r=1&ref=books&oref=slogin > --- > > > > --------------------------------- > Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 04:17:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: Poems From Guant=?iso-8859-1?Q?=E1namo:?= The Detainees S peak - Books - Review - New York Time s In-Reply-To: <46CB035C.3060907@umn.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The review of Poems from Guantanamo leaves me with the impression that what is not in the book and why it is not in the book are at least as germane as what is. It's chilling, isn't it, when even poetry is shackled, gagged, and tortured. That sort of repression is mainly associated with totalitarian regimes. The silence is deafening. ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 10:58:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Clements Subject: Sentence 5 Now Available In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sentence 5 is now available, including: Feature section on The Prose Poem in East-Asia, edited by Steve Bradbury=20 with co-editors and translators Don Mee Choi, Jeffrey Angles, Andrea=20 Lingenfelter, Sawako Nakayasu, and Hiroaki Sato; translations of Lu Xun,=20 Shang Qin, Liu Kexiang, Hsia Yu, Xi Chuan, Jiao Tong, Hung Hung, Ye Mimi,=20 He Chuanfu, Ch?oe Sung-ja, Yi Yon-ju, Kim Hyesoon, Kasuya Eiichi,=20 Takahashi Mutsuo, Suzuki Shiroyasu, Ito Hiromi, Hirata Toshiko, Yuko=20 Minamikawa Adams, Abe Hinako, and Tatehata Akira. Prose poems by Joe Ahearn, Kazim Ali, Erica Anzalone, Sally Ashton, Edward = Bart=F3k-Baratta, Bill Berkson, Raymond L. Bianchi, Daniel Borzutzky, Geoff= =20 Bouvier, Jenny Browne, Christopher Buckley, Kevin Cantwell, Peter Conners, = Mark Cunningham, Chloe Daimyo, Jon Davis, Neil de la Flor, Carrie Etter,=20 Kass Fleisher, Charles Fort, Angela Jane Fountas, James Fowler, Alex=20 Galper (translated by Mike Magazinnik and Igor Satanovsky), Christine=20 Gelineau, Daniel Grandbois, James Grinwis, Kelle Groom, Maurice Kilwein=20 Guevara, Richard Gwyn, Tanesia Hale-Jones, Kalev Hantsoo, Kevin Haworth,=20 Karen Holman, Brooke Horvath, Ann Howells, David James, Brian Johnson,=20 George Kalamaras, Luke Kennard, Jill Khoury, Rauan Klassnik, Michael=20 Koshkin, Richard Kostelanetz, David Lazar, Robert Hill Long, Sandy=20 McIntosh, Michael Meyerhofer, Steve Myers, Andrew Neuendorf, Ed Orr,=20 Virgilio Pinera (translated by Alexander Cuadros), Emma Ramey, Jessy=20 Randall, Kristin Ryling, Catherine Sasanov, Liana Scalettar, Siobhan=20 Scarry, Jim Scrimgeour, Ravi Shankar, Jay Snodgrass, D. E. Steward, Julia=20 Story, Robert Strong, Wayne Sullins, Eileen Tabios, Steve Timm, Nick=20 Twemlow, Alexandra van de Kamp, Monique van den Berg, and Mark Yakich Joe Ahearn reviews Daniel Rzicznek, Sally Ashton reviews Noah Eli Gordon,=20 Brian Brennan reviews Gloria Frym, Thomas Fink reviews Sheila E. Murphy,=20 Brooke Horvath reviews Etal Adnan and Sherwood Anderson, Matthew W.=20 Schmeer reviews Skip Fox, Ellen McGrath Smith reviews Elizabeth Willis,=20 Rebecca Spears reviews John Olson, Jerry McGuire reviews Peter Johnson,=20 Chris Murray reviews PP/FF: An Anthology; and an essay by Brian Johnson.=20 Due to increased postal and shipping rates, Sentence must increase=20 subscription rates. New rates are $15/$28/$36 for 1/2/3 issues. Send check = made to Firewheel Editions to Box 7, Western Connecticut State University, = 181 White St., Danbury, CT 06810 or subscribe using PayPal at the website: = http://firewheel-editions.org. Customers from outside North America and=20 the Carribean must include an extra $6 per copy for delivery. Sentence is=20 also available from EBSCO and Amazon.com. Forthcoming features: The Prose Poem in Italy (#6) edited by Luigi=20 Ballerini and Gian Lombardo, Native American Prose Poems (#7) edited by=20 Dean Rader ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 08:35:22 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jennifer Karmin Subject: JOB: University of Michigan, Ann Arbor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The Department of English invites applications for a poet to join the MFA faculty at the level of Assistant Professor, advanced Assistant, or new Associate. We are looking for a colleague of distinction, although not necessarily seniority. Candidates should have a strong record of publication (a minimum of one book published or in press, two books preferred) & a history of excellence in teaching. As a member of our department, the candidate will teach graduate & & undergraduate poetry workshops & other courses reflecting his/her interests & departmental needs. Members of the MFA Program share administrative duties on a rotational basis, so evidence of administrative talent & experience & willingness to serve will augment an otherwise strong application. Send letter of application, c.v., writing sample (no more than 15 pages; published material only), & evidence of teaching excellence to: Professor Sidonie Smith, Chair Dept of English Language & Literature University of Michigan 3187 Angell Hall Ann Arbor, MI 48109-1003 Attention: Recruitment Coordinator Review of applications will begin September 30 & continue until the position is filled. Women & minorities are encouraged to apply. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 11:41:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: susan maurer Subject: reading 8-24 at 7 , bowery poetry club MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable anna siano's photgraphs of the people who will be reading and a great group= reading and perty will be happening this friday. come say hello. susan mau= rer _________________________________________________________________ See what you=92re getting into=85before you go there http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=3DTXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview_0507= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 08:51:37 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Poems from Guant=?Windows-1252?Q?=E1namo?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable David: I don't find this review strange, but right to the point. You have to be = living in an alternative universe to think that this book represents the = real feelings of the prisoners. Not only was it censored, but the = original language wasn't allowed to be published, on the pretense that = it contains secret messages! What could the secret message possibly be = from someone in prison for so many years? One wonders if this is = paranoia, playacting, or just plain stupidity.=20 In any case, I think the review is basically sound, and that this book = should not be taken seriously, certainly not by poets! If I have any = problems with the review, it's with the author's contention that a poem = can't reveal the reality of one's life. I think the opposite is true, = only not in the case of this book. Best, Joel Weishaus Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 07:59:18 -0700 From: David Chirot Subject: Poems From Guant=3D?ISO-8859-1?Q?=3DE1namo:?=3D The Detainees S = peak - Books - Review - New York Times this is a rather strange review-- http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/19/books/review/Chiasson-t.html?_r=3D1&ref= =3Dbooks&oref=3Dslogin --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 09:03:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Re: Poems From Guant=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E1namo:?= /Lange' s Impounded Photos/Warrior Artists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline It's been over a year now that the story as well as some of the poems of this book have been making the news, and now come the reviews, and even the posts here noting that the book is "suspect". (After all, it IS written by "suspects"--!)" A book produced by the Pentagon, or a book of bad poetry by bad people----already the poems are being put into their own form of Guantanamo--the military-controlled translations, the use of the word "suspect" with regards to a book of poetry by "suspects", the immediate response that the poems are bad, and their only reason to be read at all is that they issued from Guantanamo, a sort of curiosity that in time--and the quicker the better!-- will be forgotten. The responses to the book only reinforce the military's judgement--the work is "suspect" (may contain hidden messages/contains no message and/or formal qualities worthy of attention)--it is "bad"--(written by a bunch of very bad guys/by a bunch of bad poets) and, as the reviewer perhaps subtly implies, written by persons from cultures inferior to those of the Russian Mandelstam or the Japanese interned by the Americans. After all, Russian and Japanese poetry is far better known to/by the American reader than that of the languages and cultures of the prisoners. When Foucault wrote that the "author" is a product, a nexus, of the discourses of her times, he could as well have included the reader. "Who reads?" It's easy enough to figure out "who is reading" in most cases, by the readers' responses. It becomes more difficult to tell "who" is reading when the interrogation light is turned on oneself. What a bunch of cobbled together nonsense, knee jerk reactions, leanings on the authority of someone's theory or "Word", adherences to an ideology, a prejudice--spews forth like a burst sewer main! "Hard headed realists' clarities", "brutal analyses", "convincing critiques", "radical readings"--how much of it is not just regurgitated internalization of the discourses of one's personal preference? And how much of it is not based on a "willing suspension of disbelief"--in other words, a belief in fictions which one takes as facts, "truths", as "self-evident"? Hasn't this book been placed already in the position of being "set up" to "fail"--in terms of "quality" and "quantity" also if people know what's "good for them"? One can pretty much imagine what many a blog and web site, pundit and poet, will have to say ahead of time about the weaknesses and failures of the book. And its "triumphs" it will immediately be pointed out, are all of them very much "suspect". Who wins? The "American discourse" so to speak, employed with equal disdain by the military and the poetry community, as well as a lot of people who won't want to read/see/hear the words of "terrorists" or "Islamo-Fascists" or simply "Moslems" to begin with. Once again "America" has triumphed!! Even over a "triumph of the human spirit"--something we know cannot belong--or be allowed to belong-- to suspected terrorists, Moslems, or Third World persons all supposedly violently opposed to OUR definitions of "democracy", "freedom", "post-avant poetry" "borders" and the like. The more one thinks about it, the more this book makes America look Great, doesn't it? Whichever way you look at it, "we" come out looking even better than ever than "them". I mean isn't it satisfying and somehow very myself-as-an-American confirming to find out these bad guys are also bad poets? And doesn't that put in their place a bit all those "bleeding heart" types who will fall for any kind of poetry providing it is written by the the "right kinds" of subject positions? Look how free "we" are--reading only the "right kind" (the ood") poetry regardless of ideology, subject position and so forth! You see, the more the poets of Guantanamo "lose'"-the more "we" all regardless of ( which American) point of view stand to gain! The Guantanamo book does however raise very interesting questions regarding translation in times of War, and especially in the loudly and long declared Wars Without End--the War on Poverty, War on Drugs, War on Terrorism, a Trinity each of which effects greatly the other. The Imperialist American agenda abroad is just as much a War at home, on those of the American people "not worth saving". The "Health Care" system in this regard is really a program of eugenics, working in tandem with the other methods of limiting the elite and powerful of the society to the right few and their various sycophants, assistants, collaborators, undertakers, prison wardens, media and institutions. In light of these Wars, i thought the review interesting as in itself it creates its own possible "after" review or meta-review, in many strange ways, among them the little discourse on translation. I recall reading in an article from last summer in it may have been the Guardian----a little bit about one of the poets mentioned, the first one of whom there was an account of having written his poetry incised in styrofoam cups. (A very interesting way to write in that one may read it with the touch rather than the eyes alone; a haptic poetry, literally--). This particular poet was Pashtun, and what to the reviewer may seem hackneyed or trite phrases, in Pashtun and in the other poetry traditions within which the prisoners write, these lines are filled with centuries of echoes, allusions, references to sites/sights/cites which are profoundly evocative of one's homeland and personal home. Even through the non-literary translations done by military approved translators, there is always going to be a certain amount of the poetry which slips through the bars, in between the lines, as well as in the themselves. Some of it may be recognized by an attentive reader, and/or many other aspects be present even in a poor translation, yet unrecognized due to a non-recognition of the writer's culture. In other words, the poetry may be there, for all the dis-translation and dissing, yet, just as the military feared, it is camouflaged, hiding in plain sight, or long ago departed for parts unknown, seen as clouds floating over a distant land by someone who will recognize the poem from their friend, relative, fellow country person. Artaud, in the Preface to The Theater and its Double: Furthermore, when we speak the word "life," it must be understood we are not referring to life as we know it from its surface of fact, but to that fragile, fluctuating center which forms never reach. And if there is still one hellish, truly accursed thing in our time, it is our artistic dallying with forms, instead of being like victims burnt at the stake, signaling through the flames. Isn't this exactly what the criticisms of the book are all about? That is doesn't measure up in regards to the "artistic dallying with forms" while all the while the visible/visible hooded person's signals vanish behind the asphyxiating smokescreens which have been deliberately cranked full mass and volume to hide them? Isn't the discourse about the "bad" poetry and Pentagon interference all a way to ignore that somewhere inside all the smokescreens there is indeed someone burning at the stake? Obviously, someone must have seen Artaud in Dreyer's film La Passion de Jeanne d'Arc--and doesn't want any poet in "our custody" to die a martyr, "signaling through the flames"! God forbid there be any interruption in "our" "artistic dallying with forms"! An aspect of this that is quite striking is to find how dangerous poetry can be not only to the military, who rightly know that poetry can conceal messages they would rather not allow to get out, but that this paranoia carries over to the reviewer also. The reviewer essays to restrict the poems within the limits of being witness-only poetry--and not even very good witness poetry at that. It's as though there is a fear that some form of otherness, if unbounded from the restraints of a narrowly confined genre, might indeed be producing a poetry which he won't be able to hear, understand, grasp--the same fear the military has. Maybe these poets in spite of everything just may be sending messages out there to someone somewhere! I.E someone reading them as poetry (in a tradition, in a language) with far more depth than the reviewer will allow them to have. The War on Terror, of which the Guantanamo prisoner poets are such a powerful, hooded, simultaneously visible/invisible example, opens also the the mine fields of translation in relation to "intelligence" and "news" as well as (and AS) propaganda. The War on Terror, which would seem to require the most exacting forms of intelligence and translation, instead seems to have taken an alternate route--into the realms of controlled translations, deliberate dis-translations, the removal of feared words and their replacement with words giving a happier picture of things, or a more frightening, as the occaision demands. Translation--which, in the case of a great many ancient and modern classics is always being done over and over again--is always trying to keep pace with "today's new, modern usage" and "latest researches and forms". The same demands are put on translations of intelligence and the news, and when one essays filtering poetry through this, it begins to create a small to very huge disturbance of the methods of deceit that are employed against its supposed and feared methods of deceit. The language of poetry, already super charged, creates a difficult problem for military translators used to identifying "hidden messages" in a way oddly analogous to literary critics approaching a text which they have a pre-formed intention towards--whether it be an animus or a friendly welcome. "Objectivity", which one would think would be a goal of intelligence, starts to corrode, and in the presence of poetry i think the corrosive effects are acting in ways that the translators feel is getting a bit out of hand, though not being able to identify quite where or in what way. In order to try to maintain control, the spin doctors go to work, and the poetry is reconfigured, reworded, until it conforms as closely as possible to the desired template. Even then, something in its very awkwardness and "bad poetry-ness" seems to indicate that it is still "suspect", that something is still "troubling". This same anxiety seems to be haunting the reviewer. If the texts can be kept confined to being witness poetry only, then he can make a very easy judgement. If they start to corrode the walls of this further confinement, then he doesn't know what to do with them. One gets a feeling that he would much rather keep things confined and in that manner be done with the issue. After all, the prisoners it is implied are not Mandelstam, and not Japanese interned in America--people who it seems to be implied are of a higher poetical character than the prisoners of Gitmo. The bios of these men seem reassuringly simple to comprehend, while their poems do not. (Even if they are "bad" poems--they keep inducing an anxiety, as though being more "complex, ambiguous" than they seem so obviously NOT to be.) Again, there is the feeling, as with the military, that somehow, something is slipping through the critic's grasp and making its way into the world where someone somewhere at sometime will indeed recognize it in some way. Translation itself with the War on Terror has become a further field of manipulated and controlled propaganda--with independent organizations attempting to get out alternate versions of translations than does MEMRI, the mega mouthpiece for a good part of the world's versions of texts from the Middle East that are used in newspapers, radio, tv around the world. MEMRI is known for subtly to greatly altering articles to fit their agendas, as well as planting stories in various Arabic and Farsi language newspapers and then providing the "translations" (i.e. the "originals") of these very stories to the world at large--again all done with an eye to the agenda. News becomes propaganda via dis/translation and the translations/pre-writings of "real" fake stories planted in real newspapers which are "found" and then "translated" into the readymade original language as well as into others and then distributed throughout the world as "real" news found in a real journal/online site. The reader/listener/watcher of all this propaganda requires, like the fiction reader, a "willing suspension of disbelief." History has proven over and over again that in times of fear, of concern for Security of the Homeland, the willing suspension of disbelief is one of the first modes of response chosen by the majority of people. Complete fictions trigger wars, hatreds, massive arms races, enormous security and cleanup contracts, the building of corporate mercenary forces above any law, national or international, the construction of ever bigger and more lethal Walls. No one running for office or in office wants to look anything but tough on Crime, Dope, Terrorism, Immigrants, the Poor, the Sick, all of them pitched into the same roiling pot of gumbo. The "news" becomes a vast spectacle of partial facts, a few "safe" facts, fictions, lies, distortions, all guaranteed to make one feel "up to date" in the "most modern efficient way". The tricks of the intelligence community get fed back outwards into the news, to effect events and opinions, ideas, which in turn effect actual events, creating further distorted and falsified "translated" versions of these. To attempt to control and spin these continuous streams of information, disinformation, dis-translation and out right fictions, news organizations become ever more dependent on "government sources", "intelligence briefings" which in turn feed them their own mixtures of facts, fictions, disinformations. The resultant texts are either taken seriously or provide fresh fodder for comedy shows. Either way, the status quo is maintained. The continual fear is that for all the elaborate constructions of fictional "intelligence" and "news" there will always be something that gets through unnoticed, igniting questions which need to be muzzled, controlled, censored. Oddly, since the "free press"'s cited (real or fake--) source is claimed to be the enemy's newspaper/tv/radio/blog/web site in order to give it "authenticity", it is considered on the one hand "false", "suspect" and on the other "real", the "real voice of the Arab world/street. These constructedly fictional or severely dis-translated as possible bits of "intelligence," these supposedly hardened, "irrefutable" "facts" have the very instability they were meant to replace and suppress. The constant fear that something will "leak out" or "leak through" requires ever more vigilance, surveillance, and ever more censorship. Attacks need to be launched on various individuals, presses, books, speakers, to discredit them and silence their criticisms. Mass responses to such outbreaks of criticism have to be contained by a deluge of media "reporting" and "discussion" whose intent is to annihilate the person/publication/professor/poet in question. The fewer critics of the fiction there are, the more the fiction can triumph. The more emphatically and forcefully critics are made to disappear, the less likely new ones are going to come forward and take a similar risk. In this way, the reader/writer may disagree in general but not in the particulars with the viewpoints presented by the controlling powers. The responses of poets to the Guantanamo poems may not be all that far at all from being nearly the same as the military's. "The poems are suspect". "The poems are bad." "I won't buy the book." "I won't read the book." "I'll satirize the book." With the Guantanamo poets, the reviewer seems to have a fear that poetry somehow has made it through every effort, including his own, to muzzle it. For, after all, a great many poetries that have endured through time and space have done just that. Don Quixote began his chase after the "impossible dream" in a prison, and to quite some astonishment found himself conquering the El Dorados of Broadway. At various times, any writer worth their salt was expected to have done a good turn or two in prison! Johnny Cash and Thoreau only needed one night there to profoundly move millions with their jail inspired work. The list of prison writings that are both powerful bearers of witness and very good pieces of writing is very very large indeed. Perhaps, just as the military --and the reviewer--and readers--feared, their is something there in the poems, which has yet to be found--and yet that remains very much a question of who controls the dis-translations and who --as a native speaker--will be able to read through the English into the heart of the original languages of composition, inside the manacles and under the hoods. One can always also "suspect" that concealed somewhere in the layerings of fictions, constructions, censorings, dis-translations, there are still traces of lines of poetry which have issued from the anarkeyological strati of a "mother Earth" "mother tongue" and poetic tradition. Until one knows much more what the poems are, passing a swift judgement on them seems to be to participate in the discourses of power which Foucault thought of in "Who is an author?" Because Who IS the Author here--the poet, the military, the translator, the press, the publicity, the opinions of poets found here, the reviewer, myself? Because of the muzzling and censoring and dis-translating of the poems, ironically the reader becomes very much what a lot of theoretical-critical positions advocate--a co-producer if not more of the (nearly absent, hooded, manacled) poem's "meaning," "quality," and "direction," "category," "value," "cliches," "witnessing." The reader becomes complicit in the creating of the poem as "bad," "suspect" in a way not too far removed from that of the military. The effort on both parts is to be able to render the poetry as absolutely ineffectual as possible. The worse, the weaker, the more pathetic the poems can be made to be read and received, the better and safer and more secure the good American reader/military can feel. All is truly for the best in this best of all possible worlds! And American poetry is safe and "free" from the "threat" of there being any "good" Guantanamo poetry, composed on what after all are "our shores". If one finds "suspect" the Guantanamo poetry, why not subject to an equally "suspect" level of investigatory consideration o the news, the poetics, the words of the "great leaders" in all walks of American society and the arts that everyday participate in the construction of various levels of fictions one is supposed to "willingly suspend one's disbelief" for? Earlier this year was the appearance of IMPOUNDED Dorothea Lange's Censored Photographs of Japanese American Internment Camps with texts by Linda Gordon and Gary Y. Okihiro . 97% of the books images have never before been published. The photos, shot primarily in 1942, were never shown but for a very few, as Lange, despite following the contrainsts placed on her choices of things to photograph, still conveyed far too much of the reality of the camps. Or--allowed the realities and people to express themselves too cleary through her being open to what was being said. What makes the book even more haunting is the inclusion of the original titlings for each photo, which give a "positive" light to the most grim, stark image. The juxtapostion of image and official caption can be extremely disturbing in a way no detourned caption could ever be. Again, there is the issue of translation--the photographic translation as it were, then the military approved captions, then the present day texts. There is also the fascinating ways in which these photos are finding their way in a development of the methods and "look" of Lange's famous Depression Era photos. Since the book gives one both the censored images and the original military dis-translation captions, as well as the contemporary commentary to put things in historical perspective, it is perhaps prototype of what may or not become someday of the Guantanamo poetry and the history of its censorings and final release of the original poems, not just by the poets included in this book, but all the poems by all the poets. It took over sixty years for Lange's work to reach the American public--who knows when if ever the same may be possible for the poetry? Another very interesting book of an American incarceration and its expression in art that has many eerie foreshadowings of Guantanamo is: Warrior Artists Historic Cheyenne and Kiowa Indian Ledger Art Drawn by Making Medicine and Zotom by Herman J. Viola with Commentary by Joesph D. and George P. Horse Capture. This is the story of the capture, and thousand mile train and forced march journey of the warriors and chiefs of four tribes to the 17th Century Spanish-built Fort Marion Prison in St. Augustine, Florida. There the Indians were taught to read and write and speak some English, sing Christian hymns and say the Lord's prayer, listen to sermons and be trained in the discipline of the American army. They were also given pencil and paper and the result was a flood of "ledger" books in which the lives of the imprisoned "terrorists" are recorded. (Some of the prisoners had killed men, women and children settlers in an effort to stem the tide of settlements and the attendant killing off of the buffalo and Indians both. Others were teenagers who hadn't done a thing. The choosing of prisoners was done in a completely arbitrary way.) Translation with regards to the Indians involved translating them into White terms, behaviours, handicrafts, disciplines, religion and language. If the former "savage" could be rewritten into an acceptable, well behaved, simulation of a White--why he or she could go free--i.e. be allowed to leave the prisons and go live on the reservations where their families had already been shipped off to. There, they were supposed to teach the ways of the Whites and maintain discipline and order. This was hoped to be a "kinder, gentler" way of vanishing the Indian than simply to continue killing every last one of them. Better a poor imitation, a bad translation, of a White version of being, safely confined on reservations, dependent on the Bureau of Indian Affairs for food and aid, than a terrifying, "terrorist" savage! So isn't it much better to have "bad" poetry from "bad" people safely confined in Guantanamo, safely dis-translated, safely dismissed, than to have to read the terrifying, "terrorist," "savage" alternative? Isn't it much better to "know" "our" poetry and ways will always be better than "theirs"? After all, what could be more frightening than if the best poet on American soil turned out to be an imprisoned "terrorist" "suspect" or a reservation Indian? What might happen to the "willing suspension of disbelief" continually required to keep on believing in the Empire's New Clothes, New Writing, New Threats, New Bread and Circuses? What if after all one was confronted with signalings through the flames, rather than smokescreens, Walls, border security fences, prisons, distranslations, fictions, lies? Would the flames and signalings reveal too much of the "still one hellish, truly ccursed thing, . . our artistic dallying after forms"? On 8/21/07, Maria Damon wrote: > yes, a little too politically correct for its own good. > > David Chirot wrote: > > this is a rather strange review-- > > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/19/books/review/Chiasson-t.html?_r=1&ref=books&oref=slogin > > --- > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 12:08:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Re: Poems From Guant=?iso-8859-1?Q?=E1namo:?= The Detainees S peak - Books - Review - New York Time s MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit And with the roll-out of data-mining techniques we're seeing (in Germany, China, here) an escalation in ways to shackle, gag, and... GS > The review of Poems from Guantanamo leaves me with the impression that > what > is not in the book and why it is not in the book are at least as germane > as > what is. > > It's chilling, isn't it, when even poetry is shackled, gagged, and > tortured. > > That sort of repression is mainly associated with totalitarian regimes. > > The silence is deafening. > > ja > http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 15:49:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: Poems from Guant=?UTF-8?Q?=C3=A1namo?= Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline I find the claim that this book shouldn't be taken seriously, "certainly = not by poets," to be extraordinary. The extent to which this book is = embroiled in economic realities, both publishing and political, offers a = very strong invitation to this poet, at least, to take it seriously. = Joel, why do you say the book shouldn't be taken seriously, "certainly not = by poets"? Its publication by the University of Iowa Press, in today's = America, and the stated history of its publication path make it very = interesting to think and talk about, in my view; as does the tension = between the stated and very visible challenges to its meaning, and all the = less visible and apprehensible challenges. It's like a cup which has lost = every single drop of poetry, except one maybe -- or even just the smell of = poetry in its pores. Or maybe it's just a cup which, because it has been = used to carry poetry, someone is still willing to carry. There is = meaning, maybe not centrally located. In the short essays, it's clear = how compromised the book is, yet it speaks. Not fluently, but fluently. = The dialogue between poetry and government in this book is a scrap of = reality, a broken but not worthless thing. Why should the book not be = taken seriously, "certainly not by poets"? It is a product of the = economies we work in, and raises many useful questions about poetry for = me, even at the level of nostalgia for a genre. I don't have the book in = front of me as I write, but I've read it. I can return to the questions = it raised for me later. Mairead >>> weishaus@PDX.EDU 08/22/07 12:51 PM >>> David: I don't find this review strange, but right to the point. You have to be = living in an alternative universe to think that this book represents the = real feelings of the prisoners. Not only was it censored, but the original = language wasn't allowed to be published, on the pretense that it contains = secret messages! What could the secret message possibly be from someone in = prison for so many years? One wonders if this is paranoia, playacting, or = just plain stupidity.=20 In any case, I think the review is basically sound, and that this book = should not be taken seriously, certainly not by poets! If I have any = problems with the review, it's with the author's contention that a poem = can't reveal the reality of one's life. I think the opposite is true, only = not in the case of this book. Best, Joel Weishaus Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 07:59:18 -0700 From: David Chirot Subject: Poems From Guant=3D?ISO-8859-1?Q?=3DE1namo:?=3D The Detainees S = peak - Books - Review - New York Times this is a rather strange review-- http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/19/books/review/Chiasson-t.html?_r=3D1&ref= =3Dbooks&oref=3Dslogin --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 16:09:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: THIS TEXT WARNS YOU NOT TO READ BEYOND THIS WARNING MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed THIS TEXT WARNS YOU NOT TO READ BEYOND THIS WARNING keeping-secret-highest-secret-tantra KNOWLEDGE IS DANGEROUS therapeutic knowledge: an adept NEEDS TIME KNOWLEDGE MUST BE SWALLOWED THEN IT IS NOT KNOWLEDGE i will teach you my secrets I WILL TEACH YOU MY SECRETS "I know nothing of the gamblings of the Bourse; I only speculate in the rise of the national honour!" 'To those who cried: Adjourn! Adjourn! -- "You naturally wish adjourn- ments, and not truths. The truths swamp you!"' I COULD NOT SLEEP TWO NIGHTS AGO. MY HEAD WAS MEAT ON A STICK MY HEAD WAS ON A STICK "I DESIRE THAT MAY ASHES REPOSE ON THE BANKS OF THE SEINE, IN THE MIDST OF THAT PEOPLE WHOM I HAVE SO MUCH LOVED." inform the people at most TEN SUMMERS REMAIN you will find me DEAD with the slightest, smallest, email, almost a note in passing, because i will search for the light there will be no light because this is all there is i will not, can one ever, read the slightest, smallest email announcing one's own death if of course that announcement is true and verifiable if in fact the soul has already left the building if there is in fact an empty building "Come, come then! Up, gentlemen, up!" ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 15:01:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: Re: Poems from Guant=?iso-8859-1?Q?=E1namo?= In-Reply-To: <46CC5AFF0200001E00000A36@risd.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mairead Byrne wrote: >Why should the book not be taken seriously, "certainly not by poets"? my question is not "should this book be taken seriously" (it should), = but "how should it be taken at all?" how is this book different from all = other books of poetry? is that obtuse? I love the expression: "Not fluently, but fluently."=20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 15:34:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Poems from Guant=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E1namo?= In-Reply-To: <46CC5AFF0200001E00000A36@risd.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable i agree with mairead. the book is compromised, of course, but to invoke = that as a reason to not listen to suffering for which we are in part=20 responsible (if only to the degree that we "enjoy" the benefits of life=20 in the US and/or as US citizens) seems convolutedly irresponsible. this = is a fascinating discussion, in any event. Mairead Byrne wrote: > I find the claim that this book shouldn't be taken seriously, "certainl= y not by poets," to be extraordinary. The extent to which this book is e= mbroiled in economic realities, both publishing and political, offers a v= ery strong invitation to this poet, at least, to take it seriously. Joel= , why do you say the book shouldn't be taken seriously, "certainly not by= poets"? Its publication by the University of Iowa Press, in today's Ame= rica, and the stated history of its publication path make it very interes= ting to think and talk about, in my view; as does the tension between the= stated and very visible challenges to its meaning, and all the less visi= ble and apprehensible challenges. It's like a cup which has lost every s= ingle drop of poetry, except one maybe -- or even just the smell of poetr= y in its pores. Or maybe it's just a cup which, because it has been used= to carry poetry, someone is still willing to carry. There is meaning, m= aybe not centrally located. In the short essays, it's clear how comprom= ised the book is, yet it speaks. Not fluently, but fluently. The dialog= ue between poetry and government in this book is a scrap of reality, a br= oken but not worthless thing. Why should the book not be taken seriously= , "certainly not by poets"? It is a product of the economies we work in,= and raises many useful questions about poetry for me, even at the level = of nostalgia for a genre. I don't have the book in front of me as I writ= e, but I've read it. I can return to the questions it raised for me late= r. > Mairead > > =20 >>>> weishaus@PDX.EDU 08/22/07 12:51 PM >>> >>>> =20 > David: > > I don't find this review strange, but right to the point. You have to b= e living in an alternative universe to think that this book represents th= e real feelings of the prisoners. Not only was it censored, but the origi= nal language wasn't allowed to be published, on the pretense that it cont= ains secret messages! What could the secret message possibly be from some= one in prison for so many years? One wonders if this is paranoia, playact= ing, or just plain stupidity.=20 > In any case, I think the review is basically sound, and that this book = should not be taken seriously, certainly not by poets! If I have any prob= lems with the review, it's with the author's contention that a poem can't= reveal the reality of one's life. I think the opposite is true, only not= in the case of this book. > > Best, > Joel Weishaus > > > Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 07:59:18 -0700 > From: David Chirot > Subject: Poems From Guant=3D?ISO-8859-1?Q?=3DE1namo:?=3D The Detainees = S peak - Books - Review - New York Times > > this is a rather strange review-- > > http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/19/books/review/Chiasson-t.html?_r=3D1&r= ef=3Dbooks&oref=3Dslogin > --- > =20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 13:55:41 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: Poems from Guantanamo In-Reply-To: <46CC5AFF0200001E00000A36@risd.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit what is not there (in the book) is more powerful than what is, from all accounts. we use our imaginations on what is not there. the unsaid. the invisible. the unknown. that everyone knows. the poems from guantanamo are apparently most notable for their having been detained. detained, shackled, gagged, and tortured. poetry itself detained. as well as these men. we are used to such things occuring in dictatorships and tyrannies. now in the usa. chilling. so this book should be taken very seriously. not simply concerning what is in it, but what isn't, and why it isn't there. ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 14:59:16 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: Poems from Guant=?iso-8859-1?Q?=E1namo?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Mairead; If you mean the arguments around the book should be taken seriously, I agree. If you mean the poetry should be taken seriously, I disagree. Firstly, most of these poems, as I understand the situation, were not written by poets. Thus, for a poet to take them seriously is like a cosmologist taking the Book of Genesis seriously. Further, even those that may have been written by persons of talent, they are not their poems, but fabrications made up by the military. The real poems and stories we will get someday when these people are free to write them and publish them without being censored by the very people who tortured them. You are right that it does raise interesting questions, but political ones, not poetic ones. -Joel ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Mairead Byrne Date: Aug 22, 2007 9:49 PM Subject: Re: Poems from Guantánamo To: POETICS@listserv.buffalo.edu I find the claim that this book shouldn't be taken seriously, "certainly not by poets," to be extraordinary. The extent to which this book is embroiled in economic realities, both publishing and political, offers a very strong invitation to this poet, at least, to take it seriously. Joel, why do you say the book shouldn't be taken seriously, "certainly not by poets"? Its publication by the University of Iowa Press, in today's America, and the stated history of its publication path make it very interesting to think and talk about, in my view; as does the tension between the stated and very visible challenges to its meaning, and all the less visible and apprehensible challenges. It's like a cup which has lost every single drop of poetry, except one maybe -- or even just the smell of poetry in its pores. Or maybe it's just a cup which, because it has been used to carry poetry, someone is still willing to carry. There is meaning, maybe not centrally located. In the short essays, it's clear how compromised the book is, yet it speaks. Not fluently, but fluently. The dialogue between poetry and government in this book is a scrap of reality, a broken but not worthless thing. Why should the book not be taken seriously, "certainly not by poets"? It is a product of the economies we work in, and raises many useful questions about poetry for me, even at the level of nostalgia for a genre. I don't have the book in front of me as I write, but I've read it. I can return to the questions it raised for me later. Mairead >>> weishaus@PDX.EDU 08/22/07 12:51 PM >>> David: I don't find this review strange, but right to the point. You have to be living in an alternative universe to think that this book represents the real feelings of the prisoners. Not only was it censored, but the original language wasn't allowed to be published, on the pretense that it contains secret messages! What could the secret message possibly be from someone in prison for so many years? One wonders if this is paranoia, playacting, or just plain stupidity. In any case, I think the review is basically sound, and that this book should not be taken seriously, certainly not by poets! If I have any problems with the review, it's with the author's contention that a poem can't reveal the reality of one's life. I think the opposite is true, only not in the case of this book. Best, Joel Weishaus Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 07:59:18 -0700 From: David Chirot Subject: Poems From Guant=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E1namo:?= The Detainees S peak - Books - Review - New York Times this is a rather strange review-- http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/19/books/review/Chiasson-t.html?_r=1&ref=books&oref=slogin --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 18:57:32 -0400 Reply-To: arippeon@buffalo.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Rippeon Subject: Reminder: LA launch for P-Queue, vol. 4. Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Please join us at BetaLevel (www.betalevel.com) this Friday, to help celebr= ate the Los Angeles launch of P-Queue, vol. 4, and to see LA-area contribut= ors read from work appearing in this volume.=20=20 Readers will include: Harold Abramowitz Allison Carter Susanne Hall Mathew Timmons P-Queue, vol. 4 features work by: Harold Abramowitz =E2=80=A2 Jos=C3=A9 Alvergue =E2=80=A2 Meg Barboza =E2= =80=A2 Ben Bedard =E2=80=A2 Allison Carter =E2=80=A2 Jon Cotner =E2=80=A2 E= lizabeth Cross =E2=80=A2 David Driscoll =E2=80=A2 Andy Fitch =E2=80=A2 Susa= nne Hall =E2=80=A2 Anthony Hawley =E2=80=A2 Laura Jaramillo =E2=80=A2=20 Crane Giamo =E2=80=A2 Philip Metres =E2=80=A2 Michael Robbins =E2=80=A2 Si= obhan Scarry =E2=80=A2 Jordan Stempleman =E2=80=A2 Michelle Taransky =E2=80= =A2 Richard Taransky =E2=80=A2 Mathew Timmons =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D P-Queue is a journal of poetry, poetics, and innovative prose, dedicated t= o investigations of hybridity and cross-genre work. We=E2=80=99re supported= by the Poetics Program, the English Department, and=20 various other sources in the Humanities at SUNY Buffalo. We=E2=80=99ve had= a brief but exciting history of publishing innovative, unclassifiable work= s from a variety of authors both at Buffalo and across the=20 nation. Volume 5, first in the second four-year series of P-Queue, is sche= duled to feature a number of collaborative works continuing the journal=E2= =80=99s investigations of genre and convention. We can=20 be found on the web at www.pqueue.blogspot.com and through the EPC under = =E2=80=9C@Buffalo=E2=80=9D at =E2=80=9CCurrent Student Publications.=E2=80= =9D To order, visit our website or email: arippeon@buffalo.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 19:03:36 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrea Rexilius Subject: Parcel Chapbook: Nate Pritts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline New at PARCEL PRESS www.parceljournal.org (*sonnets for the fall)* by Nate Pritts Nate Pritts is the author of SENSATIONAL SPECTACULAR (BlazeVOX) as well as several chapbooks. His poems have appeared widely in print & online journals such as Southern Review, Conduit, DIAGRAM, Forklift & Cimarron Review. His essays & reviews have appeared in New Writing (UK), Octopus, Midwest Quarterly & Rain Taxi. He is the editor of H_NGM_N, an online journal of poetry & poetics. This limited edition chapbook is available for order at: http://www.parceljournal.org/chapbooks/sonnets_for_the_fall.html The cost is $3. Orders may be sent to Parcel Chapbooks / c/o Andrea Rexilius / 2174 S. Grant St. / Denver, Co 80210. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 23:51:19 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Israel Bans School Supplies to Gaza - Prensa Latina MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline http://www.plenglish.com/article.asp?ID=%7bF62DC06C-C3CF-4B03-BF2F-04E63CC18361%7d)&language=EN --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 01:26:48 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: Poems from Guant=?iso-8859-1?Q?=E1namo?= In-Reply-To: <015601c7e510$114e4c90$0300a8c0@Weishaus> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > If you mean the arguments around the book should be taken seriously, I > agree. If you mean the poetry should be taken seriously, I disagree. > Firstly, most of these poems, as I understand the situation, were not > written by poets. Thus, for a poet to take them seriously is like a > cosmologist taking the Book of Genesis seriously. Further, even > those that > may have been written by persons of talent, they are not their > poems, but > fabrications made up by the military. The real poems and stories > we will get > someday when these people are free to write them and publish them without > being censored by the very people who tortured them. You are > right that it > does raise interesting questions, but political ones, not poetic ones. > > -Joel my intuition is that you're mistaken, joel. what's interesting in contemporary poetry, to me, is not usually the well-crafted poem. though that can be interesting. there are books being created now, such as ken goldsmith's work and, say, kervinen's "(no subject)" that are of real interest but are quite different from the well-crafted poem or novel or book. just about everything is unsaid. i'm not sure what's really interesting about all poetry is what's said. instead, it can be the inroads it makes into the unsaid. books are often famous not for what they say but as materializations of or testaments to a situation or time or to people or peoples etc. or as objects emblematic of a concept. poets, when they are famous, are sometimes famous not so much for their poetry as their place in a network or a movement or a demographic or whatever. part of what is significant in poetry is the nature of its intensities of language, its relations with language, the way that language and its contemporary states are drawn into the vortex of the poem or book or site or whatever the manifestation of the language/poetry is. the poems from guantanamo--the poems themselves and also the whole frame, the whole situation--should be of deep concern, particularly in the usa. poetry detained. poetry is detained not only in the usa but in other western countries. not only poetry but art and thought. by the authorities? well usually we are our own authorities, aren't we. you speak of "the real poems and stories" as opposed to the "fabrications made up by the military". it's of course true that the poems and stories in the book are tortured by the military. but perhaps what is significant is not the authenticity of the poems but the nature of their inauthenticity. perhaps what is significant is not the poems themselves, authentic or inauthentic but the whole complex of the situation, situated as art. i know it is more of a sort of approach generally associated with visual art than literary art, but it has its usefulness. in this case, it allows us to see significance where a more traditional literary approach to the well-crafted poem leaves us in a situation where, as you say, we can only see the significance of the book in political terms, not in relation to art and language. ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 08:21:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Poems from Guantanamo In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit absolutely. well-said. Jim Andrews wrote: > what is not there (in the book) is more powerful than what is, from all > accounts. we use our imaginations on what is not there. > > the unsaid. the invisible. the unknown. that everyone knows. > > the poems from guantanamo are apparently most notable for their having been > detained. detained, shackled, gagged, and tortured. poetry itself detained. > as well as these men. > > we are used to such things occuring in dictatorships and tyrannies. now in > the usa. > > chilling. > > so this book should be taken very seriously. not simply concerning what is > in it, but what isn't, and why it isn't there. > > ja > http://vispo.com > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 08:31:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Poems from Guant=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E1namo?= In-Reply-To: <015601c7e510$114e4c90$0300a8c0@Weishaus> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit i am uncomfortable with the aesthetic hierarchy espoused here, reified in the word "talent." it is true that such a thing does and does not exist, but it is certainly not the only, or the most salient, criterion by which we determine whether something has worth. to reify the person of the "poet," is , to my mind, even more dangerous. talk about policing! i do agree, though, that discussions around the poetry is at least as important as the poetry itself, but i might argue this about any "poem." Joel Weishaus wrote: > Mairead; > > If you mean the arguments around the book should be taken seriously, I > agree. If you mean the poetry should be taken seriously, I disagree. > Firstly, most of these poems, as I understand the situation, were not > written by poets. Thus, for a poet to take them seriously is like a > cosmologist taking the Book of Genesis seriously. Further, even those that > may have been written by persons of talent, they are not their poems, but > fabrications made up by the military. The real poems and stories we will get > someday when these people are free to write them and publish them without > being censored by the very people who tortured them. You are right that it > does raise interesting questions, but political ones, not poetic ones. > > -Joel > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Mairead Byrne > Date: Aug 22, 2007 9:49 PM > Subject: Re: Poems from Guantánamo > To: POETICS@listserv.buffalo.edu > > > I find the claim that this book shouldn't be taken seriously, > "certainly not by poets," to be extraordinary. The extent to which > this book is embroiled in economic realities, both publishing and > political, offers a very strong invitation to this poet, at least, to > take it seriously. Joel, why do you say the book shouldn't be taken > seriously, "certainly not by poets"? Its publication by the > University of Iowa Press, in today's America, and the stated history > of its publication path make it very interesting to think and talk > about, in my view; as does the tension between the stated and very > visible challenges to its meaning, and all the less visible and > apprehensible challenges. It's like a cup which has lost every single > drop of poetry, except one maybe -- or even just the smell of poetry > in its pores. Or maybe it's just a cup which, because it has been > used to carry poetry, someone is still willing to carry. There is > meaning, maybe not centrally located. In the short essays, it's > clear how compromised the book is, yet it speaks. Not fluently, but > fluently. The dialogue between poetry and government in this book is > a scrap of reality, a broken but not worthless thing. Why should the > book not be taken seriously, "certainly not by poets"? It is a > product of the economies we work in, and raises many useful questions > about poetry for me, even at the level of nostalgia for a genre. I > don't have the book in front of me as I write, but I've read it. I > can return to the questions it raised for me later. > Mairead > > >>>> weishaus@PDX.EDU 08/22/07 12:51 PM >>> >>>> > David: > > I don't find this review strange, but right to the point. You have to > be living in an alternative universe to think that this book > represents the real feelings of the prisoners. Not only was it > censored, but the original language wasn't allowed to be published, on > the pretense that it contains secret messages! What could the secret > message possibly be from someone in prison for so many years? One > wonders if this is paranoia, playacting, or just plain stupidity. > In any case, I think the review is basically sound, and that this book > should not be taken seriously, certainly not by poets! If I have any > problems with the review, it's with the author's contention that a > poem can't reveal the reality of one's life. I think the opposite is > true, only not in the case of this book. > > Best, > Joel Weishaus > > > Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 07:59:18 -0700 > From: David Chirot > Subject: Poems From Guant=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E1namo:?= The Detainees S > peak - Books - Review - New York Times > > this is a rather strange review-- > > http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/19/books/review/Chiasson-t.html?_r=1&ref=books&oref=slogin > --- > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 06:52:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: J Crockett Subject: listenlight new issue 11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Back to basics" featuring works by --- doctors, lawyers, and the hoi polloi http://listenlight.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 07:05:45 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Steensen,Sasha" Subject: New Bonfire chapbook by Catherine Wagner In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Bonfire press is pleased to announce the publication of Everyone in the Room is a Representative of the World at Large a chapbook by Catherine Wagner Catherine Wagner was born in Burma, of military parents, and grew up in Bal= timore. She is the author of Miss America (Fence, 2001), Macular Hole (Fenc= e, 2004), and numerous chapbooks, and recently edited, with Rebecca Wolff, = Not for Mothers Only: Contemporary Poems on Child-Bearing and Child-Rearing= (Fence, 2007). She currently teaches at Miami University in Oxford, Ohio. There are 75 copies of this chapbook. Each cover was printed on a Vandercoo= k letterpress using a photopolymer plate; the binding is sewn by hand. To o= rder, visit our website at http://coloradoreview.colostate.edu/bonfire/bonf= ire.html or send a check for $10 to Bonfire Press C/O Center for Literary Publishing Department of English Colorado State University Fort Collins, CO 80523 We also still have a few copies of Graham Foust's chapbook Some Kinds of Po= ems and broadsides by Claudia Keelan and William Tremblay. Bonfire press is a small press located within the Center for Literary Publi= shing at Colorado State University. We publish poetry chapbooks and broads= ides using a Vandercook SP15 letterpress, type, and photopolymer plates. Fo= r more information contact Sasha Steensen at Sasha.Steensen@colostate.edu On 8/22/07 10:06 PM, "POETICS automatic digest system" wrote: There are 18 messages totalling 1164 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. future of the symbol war 2. Poems From Guant=E1namo/RIP Sa cco & Vanzetti 22 August 1927 3. Poems From Guant=E1namo: The Detainees S peak - Bo oks - Review - New= York T imes 4. Poems From Guant=E1namo: The Detainees S peak - Books - Review - New= York Time s 5. Sentence 5 Now Available 6. JOB: University of Michigan, Ann Arbor 7. reading 8-24 at 7 , bowery poetry club 8. Poems from Guant=E1namo (4) 9. Poems From Guant=E1namo: /Lange' s Impounded Photos/Warrior Artists 10. Poems From Guant=E1namo: The Detainees S peak - Books - Review - Ne= w York Time s 11. Poems from Guant=C3=A1namo 12. THIS TEXT WARNS YOU NOT TO READ BEYOND THIS WARNING 13. Poems from Guantanamo 14. Reminder: LA launch for P-Queue, vol. 4. 15. Parcel Chapbook: Nate Pritts ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 02:00:13 -0400 From: Alan Sondheim Subject: future of the symbol war future of the symbol solar { denotation } http://www.asondheim.org/yesyes.mp4 satellite { connotation } http://www.asondheim.org/bloodchora1.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/bloodchora2.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/bloodchora3.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/bloodchora4.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/bloodchora5.jpg re/produced in 2nd life.yesyes with sandy baldwin. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 06:56:54 -0700 From: David Chirot Subject: Poems From Guant=3D?ISO-8859-1?Q?=3DE1namo/RIP?=3D Sa cco & Vanzet= ti 22 August 1927 On the 80th anniversary of the deaths of two American political prisoners, Sacco and Vanzetti- Highly recommend the book by Bruce Watson just out: Sacco and Vanzetti The Men, the Murders and the Judgement of the World Ryan and Tom: Don't you both think that what you are thinking and saying here is exactly what you are SUPPOSED to be thinking and saying? "Chiasson's 'Forget Guantanamo Poetry' review" (Ryan) "I'm certainly not going to pay for it" "And of course, it is suspect" (Thomas Savage) The Military and the Poetics Powers will both be proud of you!! A "bad poetry" book by "bad" people held as "suspects" in the "bad" prison and given a "bad" translation , a product of both the "bad" Pentagon and "bad" poets/suspects and "bad" "exploiting" of the situation. A great victory for the safety and security of the American way, in truth, justice and poetry! No "terrorist" will be allowed to challenge the hegemony of American poetics on our own shores! > Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 15:00:29 -0400 > From: rcdaley@GMAIL.COM > Subject: Re: Poems From Guant=3DE1namo: The Detainees S peak - Books - Re= vi=3D ew - New York Times > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > I think it's great that the review mentions this. Chiasson's "Forget > Guantanamo Poetry" review. > > Ryan > > On 8/21/07, Thomas savage wrote: > > > > I'd rather read the poems than the review. But since this book(?) is a > > government production, I'm certainly not going to pay for it. And, of > > course, it is suspect. > > > > David Chirot wrote: this is a rather strange > > review-- > > > > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/19/books/review/Chiasson-t.html?_r=3D3D1= =3D ef=3D3Dbooks&oref=3D3Dslogin > > --- > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. > > ________________________________ Get news, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. Check it= =3D out! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 08:57:01 -0500 From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Poems From Guant=3D?ISO-8859-1?Q?=3DE1namo:?=3D The Detainees = S peak - Bo oks - Review - New York T imes you know, i really don't think this a US govt enterprise. that the pentagon cleared a few poems doesn't make it a govt-sponsored or govt-produced event. i was skeptical too until i got the book. dan chiasson was just sounding off and trying to find a way to not respond from the heart. Tom W. Lewis wrote: > when I first heard of this book back in June, I wrote up my initial thoug= hts on its publication and what that means -- > > http://minnesotan-ice.blogspot.com/2007/06/expectations-from-art-what-is-= art-for.html#links > > I still don't know what it means, other than the detained in Guant=E1namo= shouldn't be there, and capitalizing on "their" words doesn't seem right. = allowing a voice for the voiceless? that sounds like ad copy more than a ca= ll for justice. > > tl > > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] O= n Behalf Of Thomas savage > Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 13:30 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Poems From Guant=E1namo: The Detainees S peak - Books - Revi= ew - New York Times > > I'd rather read the poems than the review. But since this book(?) is a g= overnment production, I'm certainly not going to pay for it. And, of cours= e, it is suspect. > > David Chirot wrote: this is a rather strange re= view-- > > http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/19/books/review/Chiasson-t.html?_r=3D1=3Db= ooks=3Dslogin > --- > > > > --------------------------------- > Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 04:17:46 -0700 From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: Poems From Guant=3D?iso-8859-1?Q?=3DE1namo:?=3D The Detainees = S peak - Books - Review - New York Time s The review of Poems from Guantanamo leaves me with the impression that what is not in the book and why it is not in the book are at least as germane as what is. It's chilling, isn't it, when even poetry is shackled, gagged, and tortured= . That sort of repression is mainly associated with totalitarian regimes. The silence is deafening. ja http://vispo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 10:58:13 -0400 From: Brian Clements Subject: Sentence 5 Now Available Sentence 5 is now available, including: Feature section on The Prose Poem in East-Asia, edited by Steve Bradbury=3D= 20 with co-editors and translators Don Mee Choi, Jeffrey Angles, Andrea=3D20 Lingenfelter, Sawako Nakayasu, and Hiroaki Sato; translations of Lu Xun,=3D= 20 Shang Qin, Liu Kexiang, Hsia Yu, Xi Chuan, Jiao Tong, Hung Hung, Ye Mimi,= =3D20 He Chuanfu, Ch?oe Sung-ja, Yi Yon-ju, Kim Hyesoon, Kasuya Eiichi,=3D20 Takahashi Mutsuo, Suzuki Shiroyasu, Ito Hiromi, Hirata Toshiko, Yuko=3D20 Minamikawa Adams, Abe Hinako, and Tatehata Akira. Prose poems by Joe Ahearn, Kazim Ali, Erica Anzalone, Sally Ashton, Edward = =3D Bart=3DF3k-Baratta, Bill Berkson, Raymond L. Bianchi, Daniel Borzutzky, Geo= ff=3D =3D20 Bouvier, Jenny Browne, Christopher Buckley, Kevin Cantwell, Peter Conners, = =3D Mark Cunningham, Chloe Daimyo, Jon Davis, Neil de la Flor, Carrie Etter,=3D= 20 Kass Fleisher, Charles Fort, Angela Jane Fountas, James Fowler, Alex=3D20 Galper (translated by Mike Magazinnik and Igor Satanovsky), Christine=3D20 Gelineau, Daniel Grandbois, James Grinwis, Kelle Groom, Maurice Kilwein=3D2= 0 Guevara, Richard Gwyn, Tanesia Hale-Jones, Kalev Hantsoo, Kevin Haworth,=3D= 20 Karen Holman, Brooke Horvath, Ann Howells, David James, Brian Johnson,=3D20 George Kalamaras, Luke Kennard, Jill Khoury, Rauan Klassnik, Michael=3D20 Koshkin, Richard Kostelanetz, David Lazar, Robert Hill Long, Sandy=3D20 McIntosh, Michael Meyerhofer, Steve Myers, Andrew Neuendorf, Ed Orr,=3D20 Virgilio Pinera (translated by Alexander Cuadros), Emma Ramey, Jessy=3D20 Randall, Kristin Ryling, Catherine Sasanov, Liana Scalettar, Siobhan=3D20 Scarry, Jim Scrimgeour, Ravi Shankar, Jay Snodgrass, D. E. Steward, Julia= =3D20 Story, Robert Strong, Wayne Sullins, Eileen Tabios, Steve Timm, Nick=3D20 Twemlow, Alexandra van de Kamp, Monique van den Berg, and Mark Yakich Joe Ahearn reviews Daniel Rzicznek, Sally Ashton reviews Noah Eli Gordon,= =3D20 Brian Brennan reviews Gloria Frym, Thomas Fink reviews Sheila E. Murphy,=3D= 20 Brooke Horvath reviews Etal Adnan and Sherwood Anderson, Matthew W.=3D20 Schmeer reviews Skip Fox, Ellen McGrath Smith reviews Elizabeth Willis,=3D2= 0 Rebecca Spears reviews John Olson, Jerry McGuire reviews Peter Johnson,=3D2= 0 Chris Murray reviews PP/FF: An Anthology; and an essay by Brian Johnson.=3D= 20 Due to increased postal and shipping rates, Sentence must increase=3D20 subscription rates. New rates are $15/$28/$36 for 1/2/3 issues. Send check = =3D made to Firewheel Editions to Box 7, Western Connecticut State University, = =3D 181 White St., Danbury, CT 06810 or subscribe using PayPal at the website: = =3D http://firewheel-editions.org. Customers from outside North America and=3D2= 0 the Carribean must include an extra $6 per copy for delivery. Sentence is= =3D20 also available from EBSCO and Amazon.com. Forthcoming features: The Prose Poem in Italy (#6) edited by Luigi=3D20 Ballerini and Gian Lombardo, Native American Prose Poems (#7) edited by=3D2= 0 Dean Rader ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 08:35:22 -0700 From: Jennifer Karmin Subject: JOB: University of Michigan, Ann Arbor The Department of English invites applications for a poet to join the MFA faculty at the level of Assistant Professor, advanced Assistant, or new Associate. We are looking for a colleague of distinction, although not necessarily seniority. Candidates should have a strong record of publication (a minimum of one book published or in press, two books preferred) & a history of excellence in teaching. As a member of our department, the candidate will teach graduate & & undergraduate poetry workshops & other courses reflecting his/her interests & departmental needs. Members of the MFA Program share administrative duties on a rotational basis, so evidence of administrative talent & experience & willingness to serve will augment an otherwise strong application. Send letter of application, c.v., writing sample (no more than 15 pages; published material only), & evidence of teaching excellence to: Professor Sidonie Smith, Chair Dept of English Language & Literature University of Michigan 3187 Angell Hall Ann Arbor, MI 48109-1003 Attention: Recruitment Coordinator Review of applications will begin September 30 & continue until the position is filled. Women & minorities are encouraged to apply. ___________________________________________________________________________= _________ Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=3D1ONXIC ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 11:41:11 -0400 From: susan maurer Subject: reading 8-24 at 7 , bowery poetry club anna siano's photgraphs of the people who will be reading and a great group= =3D reading and perty will be happening this friday. come say hello. susan mau= =3D rer _________________________________________________________________ See what you=3D92re getting into=3D85before you go there http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=3D3DTXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview_05= 07=3D ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 08:51:37 -0800 From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Poems from Guant=3D?Windows-1252?Q?=3DE1namo?=3D David: I don't find this review strange, but right to the point. You have to be = =3D living in an alternative universe to think that this book represents the = =3D real feelings of the prisoners. Not only was it censored, but the =3D original language wasn't allowed to be published, on the pretense that =3D it contains secret messages! What could the secret message possibly be =3D from someone in prison for so many years? One wonders if this is =3D paranoia, playacting, or just plain stupidity.=3D20 In any case, I think the review is basically sound, and that this book =3D should not be taken seriously, certainly not by poets! If I have any =3D problems with the review, it's with the author's contention that a poem =3D can't reveal the reality of one's life. I think the opposite is true, =3D only not in the case of this book. Best, Joel Weishaus Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 07:59:18 -0700 From: David Chirot Subject: Poems From Guant=3D3D?ISO-8859-1?Q?=3D3DE1namo:?=3D3D The Detainee= s S =3D peak - Books - Review - New York Times this is a rather strange review-- http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/19/books/review/Chiasson-t.html?_r=3D3D1=3D = =3D3Dbooks&oref=3D3Dslogin --- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 09:03:23 -0700 From: David Chirot Subject: Re: Poems From Guant=3D?ISO-8859-1?Q?=3DE1namo:?=3D /Lange' s Impo= unded Photos/Warrior Artists It's been over a year now that the story as well as some of the poems of this book have been making the news, and now come the reviews, and even the posts here noting that the book is "suspect". (After all, it IS written by "suspects"--!)" A book produced by the Pentagon, or a book of bad poetry by bad people----already the poems are being put into their own form of Guantanamo--the military-controlled translations, the use of the word "suspect" with regards to a book of poetry by "suspects", the immediate response that the poems are bad, and their only reason to be read at all is that they issued from Guantanamo, a sort of curiosity that in time--and the quicker the better!-- will be forgotten. The responses to the book only reinforce the military's judgement--the work is "suspect" (may contain hidden messages/contains no message and/or formal qualities worthy of attention)--it is "bad"--(written by a bunch of very bad guys/by a bunch of bad poets) and, as the reviewer perhaps subtly implies, written by persons from cultures inferior to those of the Russian Mandelstam or the Japanese interned by the Americans. After all, Russian and Japanese poetry is far better known to/by the American reader than that of the languages and cultures of the prisoners. When Foucault wrote that the "author" is a product, a nexus, of the discourses of her times, he could as well have included the reader. "Who reads?" It's easy enough to figure out "who is reading" in most cases, by the readers' responses. It becomes more difficult to tell "who" is reading when the interrogation light is turned on oneself. What a bunch of cobbled together nonsense, knee jerk reactions, leanings on the authority of someone's theory or "Word", adherences to an ideology, a prejudice--spews forth like a burst sewer main! "Hard headed realists' clarities", "brutal analyses", "convincing critiques", "radical readings"--how much of it is not just regurgitated internalization of the discourses of one's personal preference? And how much of it is not based on a "willing suspension of disbelief"--in other words, a belief in fictions which one takes as facts, "truths", as "self-evident"? Hasn't this book been placed already in the position of being "set up" to "fail"--in terms of "quality" and "quantity" also if people know what's "good for them"? One can pretty much imagine what many a blog and web site, pundit and poet, will have to say ahead of time about the weaknesses and failures of the book. And its "triumphs" it will immediately be pointed out, are all of them very much "suspect". Who wins? The "American discourse" so to speak, employed with equal disdain by the military and the poetry community, as well as a lot of people who won't want to read/see/hear the words of "terrorists" or "Islamo-Fascists" or simply "Moslems" to begin with. Once again "America" has triumphed!! Even over a "triumph of the human spirit"--something we know cannot belong--or be allowed to belong-- to suspected terrorists, Moslems, or Third World persons all supposedly violently opposed to OUR definitions of "democracy", "freedom", "post-avant poetry" "borders" and the like. The more one thinks about it, the more this book makes America look Great, doesn't it? Whichever way you look at it, "we" come out looking even better than ever than "them". I mean isn't it satisfying and somehow very myself-as-an-American confirming to find out these bad guys are also bad poets? And doesn't that put in their place a bit all those "bleeding heart" types who will fall for any kind of poetry providing it is written by the the "right kinds" of subject positions? Look how free "we" are--reading only the "right kind" (the ood") poetry regardless of ideology, subject position and so forth! You see, the more the poets of Guantanamo "lose'"-the more "we" all regardless of ( which American) point of view stand to gain! The Guantanamo book does however raise very interesting questions regarding translation in times of War, and especially in the loudly and long declared Wars Without End--the War on Poverty, War on Drugs, War on Terrorism, a Trinity each of which effects greatly the other. The Imperialist American agenda abroad is just as much a War at home, on those of the American people "not worth saving". The "Health Care" system in this regard is really a program of eugenics, working in tandem with the other methods of limiting the elite and powerful of the society to the right few and their various sycophants, assistants, collaborators, undertakers, prison wardens, media and institutions. In light of these Wars, i thought the review interesting as in itself it creates its own possible "after" review or meta-review, in many strange ways, among them the little discourse on translation. I recall reading in an article from last summer in it may have been the Guardian----a little bit about one of the poets mentioned, the first one of whom there was an account of having written his poetry incised in styrofoam cups. (A very interesting way to write in that one may read it with the touch rather than the eyes alone; a haptic poetry, literally--). This particular poet was Pashtun, and what to the reviewer may seem hackneyed or trite phrases, in Pashtun and in the other poetry traditions within which the prisoners write, these lines are filled with centuries of echoes, allusions, references to sites/sights/cites which are profoundly evocative of one's homeland and personal home. Even through the non-literary translations done by military approved translators, there is always going to be a certain amount of the poetry which slips through the bars, in between the lines, as well as in the themselves. Some of it may be recognized by an attentive reader, and/or many other aspects be present even in a poor translation, yet unrecognized due to a non-recognition of the writer's culture. In other words, the poetry may be there, for all the dis-translation and dissing, yet, just as the military feared, it is camouflaged, hiding in plain sight, or long ago departed for parts unknown, seen as clouds floating over a distant land by someone who will recognize the poem from their friend, relative, fellow country person. Artaud, in the Preface to The Theater and its Double: Furthermore, when we speak the word "life," it must be understood we are not referring to life as we know it from its surface of fact, but to that fragile, fluctuating center which forms never reach. And if there is still one hellish, truly accursed thing in our time, it is our artistic dallying with forms, instead of being like victims burnt at the stake, signaling through the flames. Isn't this exactly what the criticisms of the book are all about? That is doesn't measure up in regards to the "artistic dallying with forms" while all the while the visible/visible hooded person's signals vanish behind the asphyxiating smokescreens which have been deliberately cranked full mass and volume to hide them? Isn't the discourse about the "bad" poetry and Pentagon interference all a way to ignore that somewhere inside all the smokescreens there is indeed someone burning at the stake? Obviously, someone must have seen Artaud in Dreyer's film La Passion de Jeanne d'Arc--and doesn't want any poet in "our custody" to die a martyr, "signaling through the flames"! God forbid there be any interruption in "our" "artistic dallying with forms"! An aspect of this that is quite striking is to find how dangerous poetry can be not only to the military, who rightly know that poetry can conceal messages they would rather not allow to get out, but that this paranoia carries over to the reviewer also. The reviewer essays to restrict the poems within the limits of being witness-only poetry--and not even very good witness poetry at that. It's as though there is a fear that some form of otherness, if unbounded from the restraints of a narrowly confined genre, might indeed be producing a poetry which he won't be able to hear, understand, grasp--the same fear the military has. Maybe these poets in spite of everything just may be sending messages out there to someone somewhere! I.E someone reading them as poetry (in a tradition, in a language) with far more depth than the reviewer will allow them to have. The War on Terror, of which the Guantanamo prisoner poets are such a powerful, hooded, simultaneously visible/invisible example, opens also the the mine fields of translation in relation to "intelligence" and "news" as well as (and AS) propaganda. The War on Terror, which would seem to require the most exacting forms of intelligence and translation, instead seems to have taken an alternate route--into the realms of controlled translations, deliberate dis-translations, the removal of feared words and their replacement with words giving a happier picture of things, or a more frightening, as the occaision demands. Translation--which, in the case of a great many ancient and modern classics is always being done over and over again--is always trying to keep pace with "today's new, modern usage" and "latest researches and forms". The same demands are put on translations of intelligence and the news, and when one essays filtering poetry through this, it begins to create a small to very huge disturbance of the methods of deceit that are employed against its supposed and feared methods of deceit. The language of poetry, already super charged, creates a difficult problem for military translators used to identifying "hidden messages" in a way oddly analogous to literary critics approaching a text which they have a pre-formed intention towards--whether it be an animus or a friendly welcome. "Objectivity", which one would think would be a goal of intelligence, starts to corrode, and in the presence of poetry i think the corrosive effects are acting in ways that the translators feel is getting a bit out of hand, though not being able to identify quite where or in what way. In order to try to maintain control, the spin doctors go to work, and the poetry is reconfigured, reworded, until it conforms as closely as possible to the desired template. Even then, something in its very awkwardness and "bad poetry-ness" seems to indicate that it is still "suspect", that something is still "troubling". This same anxiety seems to be haunting the reviewer. If the texts can be kept confined to being witness poetry only, then he can make a very easy judgement. If they start to corrode the walls of this further confinement, then he doesn't know what to do with them. One gets a feeling that he would much rather keep things confined and in that manner be done with the issue. After all, the prisoners it is implied are not Mandelstam, and not Japanese interned in America--people who it seems to be implied are of a higher poetical character than the prisoners of Gitmo. The bios of these men seem reassuringly simple to comprehend, while their poems do not. (Even if they are "bad" poems--they keep inducing an anxiety, as though being more "complex, ambiguous" than they seem so obviously NOT to be.) Again, there is the feeling, as with the military, that somehow, something is slipping through the critic's grasp and making its way into the world where someone somewhere at sometime will indeed recognize it in some way. Translation itself with the War on Terror has become a further field of manipulated and controlled propaganda--with independent organizations attempting to get out alternate versions of translations than does MEMRI, the mega mouthpiece for a good part of the world's versions of texts from the Middle East that are used in newspapers, radio, tv around the world. MEMRI is known for subtly to greatly altering articles to fit their agendas, as well as planting stories in various Arabic and Farsi language newspapers and then providing the "translations" (i.e. the "originals") of these very stories to the world at large--again all done with an eye to the agenda. News becomes propaganda via dis/translation and the translations/pre-writings of "real" fake stories planted in real newspapers which are "found" and then "translated" into the readymade original language as well as into others and then distributed throughout the world as "real" news found in a real journal/online site. The reader/listener/watcher of all this propaganda requires, like the fiction reader, a "willing suspension of disbelief." History has proven over and over again that in times of fear, of concern for Security of the Homeland, the willing suspension of disbelief is one of the first modes of response chosen by the majority of people. Complete fictions trigger wars, hatreds, massive arms races, enormous security and cleanup contracts, the building of corporate mercenary forces above any law, national or international, the construction of ever bigger and more lethal Walls. No one running for office or in office wants to look anything but tough on Crime, Dope, Terrorism, Immigrants, the Poor, the Sick, all of them pitched into the same roiling pot of gumbo. The "news" becomes a vast spectacle of partial facts, a few "safe" facts, fictions, lies, distortions, all guaranteed to make one feel "up to date" in the "most modern efficient way". The tricks of the intelligence community get fed back outwards into the news, to effect events and opinions, ideas, which in turn effect actual events, creating further distorted and falsified "translated" versions of these. To attempt to control and spin these continuous streams of information, disinformation, dis-translation and out right fictions, news organizations become ever more dependent on "government sources", "intelligence briefings" which in turn feed them their own mixtures of facts, fictions, disinformations. The resultant texts are either taken seriously or provide fresh fodder for comedy shows. Either way, the status quo is maintained. The continual fear is that for all the elaborate constructions of fictional "intelligence" and "news" there will always be something that gets through unnoticed, igniting questions which need to be muzzled, controlled, censored. Oddly, since the "free press"'s cited (real or fake--) source is claimed to be the enemy's newspaper/tv/radio/blog/web site in order to give it "authenticity", it is considered on the one hand "false", "suspect" and on the other "real", the "real voice of the Arab world/street. These constructedly fictional or severely dis-translated as possible bits of "intelligence," these supposedly hardened, "irrefutable" "facts" have the very instability they were meant to replace and suppress. The constant fear that something will "leak out" or "leak through" requires ever more vigilance, surveillance, and ever more censorship. Attacks need to be launched on various individuals, presses, books, speakers, to discredit them and silence their criticisms. Mass responses to such outbreaks of criticism have to be contained by a deluge of media "reporting" and "discussion" whose intent is to annihilate the person/publication/professor/poet in question. The fewer critics of the fiction there are, the more the fiction can triumph. The more emphatically and forcefully critics are made to disappear, the less likely new ones are going to come forward and take a similar risk. In this way, the reader/writer may disagree in general but not in the particulars with the viewpoints presented by the controlling powers. The responses of poets to the Guantanamo poems may not be all that far at all from being nearly the same as the military's. "The poems are suspect". "The poems are bad." "I won't buy the book." "I won't read the book." "I'll satirize the book." With the Guantanamo poets, the reviewer seems to have a fear that poetry somehow has made it through every effort, including his own, to muzzle it. For, after all, a great many poetries that have endured through time and space have done just that. Don Quixote began his chase after the "impossible dream" in a prison, and to quite some astonishment found himself conquering the El Dorados of Broadway. At various times, any writer worth their salt was expected to have done a good turn or two in prison! Johnny Cash and Thoreau only needed one night there to profoundly move millions with their jail inspired work. The list of prison writings that are both powerful bearers of witness and very good pieces of writing is very very large indeed. Perhaps, just as the military --and the reviewer--and readers--feared, their is something there in the poems, which has yet to be found--and yet that remains very much a question of who controls the dis-translations and who --as a native speaker--will be able to read through the English into the heart of the original languages of composition, inside the manacles and under the hoods. One can always also "suspect" that concealed somewhere in the layerings of fictions, constructions, censorings, dis-translations, there are still traces of lines of poetry which have issued from the anarkeyological strati of a "mother Earth" "mother tongue" and poetic tradition. Until one knows much more what the poems are, passing a swift judgement on them seems to be to participate in the discourses of power which Foucault thought of in "Who is an author?" Because Who IS the Author here--the poet, the military, the translator, the press, the publicity, the opinions of poets found here, the reviewer, myself? Because of the muzzling and censoring and dis-translating of the poems, ironically the reader becomes very much what a lot of theoretical-critical positions advocate--a co-producer if not more of the (nearly absent, hooded, manacled) poem's "meaning," "quality," and "direction," "category," "value," "cliches," "witnessing." The reader becomes complicit in the creating of the poem as "bad," "suspect" in a way not too far removed from that of the military. The effort on both parts is to be able to render the poetry as absolutely ineffectual as possible. The worse, the weaker, the more pathetic the poems can be made to be read and received, the better and safer and more secure the good American reader/military can feel. All is truly for the best in this best of all possible worlds! And American poetry is safe and "free" from the "threat" of there being any "good" Guantanamo poetry, composed on what after all are "our shores". If one finds "suspect" the Guantanamo poetry, why not subject to an equally "suspect" level of investigatory consideration o the news, the poetics, the words of the "great leaders" in all walks of American society and the arts that everyday participate in the construction of various levels of fictions one is supposed to "willingly suspend one's disbelief" for? Earlier this year was the appearance of IMPOUNDED Dorothea Lange's Censored Photographs of Japanese American Internment Camps with texts by Linda Gordon and Gary Y. Okihiro . 97% of the books images have never before been published. The photos, shot primarily in 1942, were never shown but for a very few, as Lange, despite following the contrainsts placed on her choices of things to photograph, still conveyed far too much of the reality of the camps. Or--allowed the realities and people to express themselves too cleary through her being open to what was being said. What makes the book even more haunting is the inclusion of the original titlings for each photo, which give a "positive" light to the most grim, stark image. The juxtapostion of image and official caption can be extremely disturbing in a way no detourned caption could ever be. Again, there is the issue of translation--the photographic translation as it were, then the military approved captions, then the present day texts. There is also the fascinating ways in which these photos are finding their way in a development of the methods and "look" of Lange's famous Depression Era photos. Since the book gives one both the censored images and the original military dis-translation captions, as well as the contemporary commentary to put things in historical perspective, it is perhaps prototype of what may or not become someday of the Guantanamo poetry and the history of its censorings and final release of the original poems, not just by the poets included in this book, but all the poems by all the poets. It took over sixty years for Lange's work to reach the American public--who knows when if ever the same may be possible for the poetry? Another very interesting book of an American incarceration and its expression in art that has many eerie foreshadowings of Guantanamo is: Warrior Artists Historic Cheyenne and Kiowa Indian Ledger Art Drawn by Making Medicine and Zotom by Herman J. Viola with Commentary by Joesph D. and George P. Horse Capture. This is the story of the capture, and thousand mile train and forced march journey of the warriors and chiefs of four tribes to the 17th Century Spanish-built Fort Marion Prison in St. Augustine, Florida. There the Indians were taught to read and write and speak some English, sing Christian hymns and say the Lord's prayer, listen to sermons and be trained in the discipline of the American army. They were also given pencil and paper and the result was a flood of "ledger" books in which the lives of the imprisoned "terrorists" are recorded. (Some of the prisoners had killed men, women and children settlers in an effort to stem the tide of settlements and the attendant killing off of the buffalo and Indians both. Others were teenagers who hadn't done a thing. The choosing of prisoners was done in a completely arbitrary way.) Translation with regards to the Indians involved translating them into White terms, behaviours, handicrafts, disciplines, religion and language. If the former "savage" could be rewritten into an acceptable, well behaved, simulation of a White--why he or she could go free--i.e. be allowed to leave the prisons and go live on the reservations where their families had already been shipped off to. There, they were supposed to teach the ways of the Whites and maintain discipline and order. This was hoped to be a "kinder, gentler" way of vanishing the Indian than simply to continue killing every last one of them. Better a poor imitation, a bad translation, of a White version of being, safely confined on reservations, dependent on the Bureau of Indian Affairs for food and aid, than a terrifying, "terrorist" savage! So isn't it much better to have "bad" poetry from "bad" people safely confined in Guantanamo, safely dis-translated, safely dismissed, than to have to read the terrifying, "terrorist," "savage" alternative? Isn't it much better to "know" "our" poetry and ways will always be better than "theirs"? After all, what could be more frightening than if the best poet on American soil turned out to be an imprisoned "terrorist" "suspect" or a reservation Indian? What might happen to the "willing suspension of disbelief" continually required to keep on believing in the Empire's New Clothes, New Writing, New Threats, New Bread and Circuses? What if after all one was confronted with signalings through the flames, rather than smokescreens, Walls, border security fences, prisons, distranslations, fictions, lies? Would the flames and signalings reveal too much of the "still one hellish, truly ccursed thing, . . our artistic dallying after forms"? On 8/21/07, Maria Damon wrote: > yes, a little too politically correct for its own good. > > David Chirot wrote: > > this is a rather strange review-- > > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/19/books/review/Chiasson-t.html?_r=3D1= =3Dbooks=3Dslogin > > --- > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 12:08:29 -0400 From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Re: Poems From Guant=3D?iso-8859-1?Q?=3DE1namo:?=3D The Detainees = S peak - Books - Review - New York Time s And with the roll-out of data-mining techniques we're seeing (in Germany, China, here) an escalation in ways to shackle, gag, and... GS > The review of Poems from Guantanamo leaves me with the impression that > what > is not in the book and why it is not in the book are at least as germane > as > what is. > > It's chilling, isn't it, when even poetry is shackled, gagged, and > tortured. > > That sort of repression is mainly associated with totalitarian regimes. > > The silence is deafening. > > ja > http://vispo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 15:49:19 -0400 From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: Poems from Guant=3D?UTF-8?Q?=3DC3=3DA1namo?=3D I find the claim that this book shouldn't be taken seriously, "certainly = =3D not by poets," to be extraordinary. The extent to which this book is =3D embroiled in economic realities, both publishing and political, offers a = =3D very strong invitation to this poet, at least, to take it seriously. =3D Joel, why do you say the book shouldn't be taken seriously, "certainly not = =3D by poets"? Its publication by the University of Iowa Press, in today's =3D America, and the stated history of its publication path make it very =3D interesting to think and talk about, in my view; as does the tension =3D between the stated and very visible challenges to its meaning, and all the = =3D less visible and apprehensible challenges. It's like a cup which has lost = =3D every single drop of poetry, except one maybe -- or even just the smell of = =3D poetry in its pores. Or maybe it's just a cup which, because it has been = =3D used to carry poetry, someone is still willing to carry. There is =3D meaning, maybe not centrally located. In the short essays, it's clear =3D how compromised the book is, yet it speaks. Not fluently, but fluently. = =3D The dialogue between poetry and government in this book is a scrap of =3D reality, a broken but not worthless thing. Why should the book not be =3D taken seriously, "certainly not by poets"? It is a product of the =3D economies we work in, and raises many useful questions about poetry for =3D me, even at the level of nostalgia for a genre. I don't have the book in = =3D front of me as I write, but I've read it. I can return to the questions = =3D it raised for me later. Mairead >>> weishaus@PDX.EDU 08/22/07 12:51 PM >>> David: I don't find this review strange, but right to the point. You have to be = =3D living in an alternative universe to think that this book represents the = =3D real feelings of the prisoners. Not only was it censored, but the original = =3D language wasn't allowed to be published, on the pretense that it contains = =3D secret messages! What could the secret message possibly be from someone in = =3D prison for so many years? One wonders if this is paranoia, playacting, or = =3D just plain stupidity.=3D20 In any case, I think the review is basically sound, and that this book =3D should not be taken seriously, certainly not by poets! If I have any =3D problems with the review, it's with the author's contention that a poem =3D can't reveal the reality of one's life. I think the opposite is true, only = =3D not in the case of this book. Best, Joel Weishaus Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 07:59:18 -0700 From: David Chirot Subject: Poems From Guant=3D3D?ISO-8859-1?Q?=3D3DE1namo:?=3D3D The Detainee= s S =3D peak - Books - Review - New York Times this is a rather strange review-- http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/19/books/review/Chiasson-t.html?_r=3D3D1=3D = =3D3Dbooks&oref=3D3Dslogin --- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 16:09:32 -0400 From: Alan Sondheim Subject: THIS TEXT WARNS YOU NOT TO READ BEYOND THIS WARNING THIS TEXT WARNS YOU NOT TO READ BEYOND THIS WARNING keeping-secret-highest-secret-tantra KNOWLEDGE IS DANGEROUS therapeutic knowledge: an adept NEEDS TIME KNOWLEDGE MUST BE SWALLOWED THEN IT IS NOT KNOWLEDGE i will teach you my secrets I WILL TEACH YOU MY SECRETS "I know nothing of the gamblings of the Bourse; I only speculate in the rise of the national honour!" 'To those who cried: Adjourn! Adjourn! -- "You naturally wish adjourn- ments, and not truths. The truths swamp you!"' I COULD NOT SLEEP TWO NIGHTS AGO. MY HEAD WAS MEAT ON A STICK MY HEAD WAS ON A STICK "I DESIRE THAT MAY ASHES REPOSE ON THE BANKS OF THE SEINE, IN THE MIDST OF THAT PEOPLE WHOM I HAVE SO MUCH LOVED." inform the people at most TEN SUMMERS REMAIN you will find me DEAD with the slightest, smallest, email, almost a note in passing, because i will search for the light there will be no light because this is all there is i will not, can one ever, read the slightest, smallest email announcing one's own death if of course that announcement is true and verifiable if in fact the soul has already left the building if there is in fact an empty building "Come, come then! Up, gentlemen, up!" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 15:01:15 -0500 From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: Re: Poems from Guant=3D?iso-8859-1?Q?=3DE1namo?=3D Mairead Byrne wrote: >Why should the book not be taken seriously, "certainly not by poets"? my question is not "should this book be taken seriously" (it should), =3D but "how should it be taken at all?" how is this book different from all = =3D other books of poetry? is that obtuse? I love the expression: "Not fluently, but fluently."=3D20 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 15:34:32 -0500 From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Poems from Guant=3D?ISO-8859-1?Q?=3DE1namo?=3D i agree with mairead. the book is compromised, of course, but to invoke = =3D that as a reason to not listen to suffering for which we are in part=3D20 responsible (if only to the degree that we "enjoy" the benefits of life=3D2= 0 in the US and/or as US citizens) seems convolutedly irresponsible. this = =3D is a fascinating discussion, in any event. Mairead Byrne wrote: > I find the claim that this book shouldn't be taken seriously, "certainl= =3D y not by poets," to be extraordinary. The extent to which this book is e= =3D mbroiled in economic realities, both publishing and political, offers a v= =3D ery strong invitation to this poet, at least, to take it seriously. Joel= =3D , why do you say the book shouldn't be taken seriously, "certainly not by= =3D poets"? Its publication by the University of Iowa Press, in today's Ame= =3D rica, and the stated history of its publication path make it very interes= =3D ting to think and talk about, in my view; as does the tension between the= =3D stated and very visible challenges to its meaning, and all the less visi= =3D ble and apprehensible challenges. It's like a cup which has lost every s= =3D ingle drop of poetry, except one maybe -- or even just the smell of poetr= =3D y in its pores. Or maybe it's just a cup which, because it has been used= =3D to carry poetry, someone is still willing to carry. There is meaning, m= =3D aybe not centrally located. In the short essays, it's clear how comprom= =3D ised the book is, yet it speaks. Not fluently, but fluently. The dialog= =3D ue between poetry and government in this book is a scrap of reality, a br= =3D oken but not worthless thing. Why should the book not be taken seriously= =3D , "certainly not by poets"? It is a product of the economies we work in,= =3D and raises many useful questions about poetry for me, even at the level = =3D of nostalgia for a genre. I don't have the book in front of me as I writ= =3D e, but I've read it. I can return to the questions it raised for me late= =3D r. > Mairead > > =3D20 >>>> weishaus@PDX.EDU 08/22/07 12:51 PM >>> >>>> =3D20 > David: > > I don't find this review strange, but right to the point. You have to b= =3D e living in an alternative universe to think that this book represents th= =3D e real feelings of the prisoners. Not only was it censored, but the origi= =3D nal language wasn't allowed to be published, on the pretense that it cont= =3D ains secret messages! What could the secret message possibly be from some= =3D one in prison for so many years? One wonders if this is paranoia, playact= =3D ing, or just plain stupidity.=3D20 > In any case, I think the review is basically sound, and that this book = =3D should not be taken seriously, certainly not by poets! If I have any prob= =3D lems with the review, it's with the author's contention that a poem can't= =3D reveal the reality of one's life. I think the opposite is true, only not= =3D in the case of this book. > > Best, > Joel Weishaus > > > Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 07:59:18 -0700 > From: David Chirot > Subject: Poems From Guant=3D3D?ISO-8859-1?Q?=3D3DE1namo:?=3D3D The Detain= ees =3D S peak - Books - Review - New York Times > > this is a rather strange review-- > > http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/19/books/review/Chiasson-t.html?_r=3D3D1= =3D ef=3D3Dbooks&oref=3D3Dslogin > --- > =3D20 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 13:55:41 -0700 From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: Poems from Guantanamo what is not there (in the book) is more powerful than what is, from all accounts. we use our imaginations on what is not there. the unsaid. the invisible. the unknown. that everyone knows. the poems from guantanamo are apparently most notable for their having been detained. detained, shackled, gagged, and tortured. poetry itself detained. as well as these men. we are used to such things occuring in dictatorships and tyrannies. now in the usa. chilling. so this book should be taken very seriously. not simply concerning what is in it, but what isn't, and why it isn't there. ja http://vispo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 14:59:16 -0800 From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: Poems from Guant=3D?iso-8859-1?Q?=3DE1namo?=3D Mairead; If you mean the arguments around the book should be taken seriously, I agree. If you mean the poetry should be taken seriously, I disagree. Firstly, most of these poems, as I understand the situation, were not written by poets. Thus, for a poet to take them seriously is like a cosmologist taking the Book of Genesis seriously. Further, even those that may have been written by persons of talent, they are not their poems, but fabrications made up by the military. The real poems and stories we will ge= t someday when these people are free to write them and publish them without being censored by the very people who tortured them. You are right that it does raise interesting questions, but political ones, not poetic ones. -Joel ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Mairead Byrne Date: Aug 22, 2007 9:49 PM Subject: Re: Poems from Guant=E1namo To: POETICS@listserv.buffalo.edu I find the claim that this book shouldn't be taken seriously, "certainly not by poets," to be extraordinary. The extent to which this book is embroiled in economic realities, both publishing and political, offers a very strong invitation to this poet, at least, to take it seriously. Joel, why do you say the book shouldn't be taken seriously, "certainly not by poets"? Its publication by the University of Iowa Press, in today's America, and the stated history of its publication path make it very interesting to think and talk about, in my view; as does the tension between the stated and very visible challenges to its meaning, and all the less visible and apprehensible challenges. It's like a cup which has lost every single drop of poetry, except one maybe -- or even just the smell of poetry in its pores. Or maybe it's just a cup which, because it has been used to carry poetry, someone is still willing to carry. There is meaning, maybe not centrally located. In the short essays, it's clear how compromised the book is, yet it speaks. Not fluently, but fluently. The dialogue between poetry and government in this book is a scrap of reality, a broken but not worthless thing. Why should the book not be taken seriously, "certainly not by poets"? It is a product of the economies we work in, and raises many useful questions about poetry for me, even at the level of nostalgia for a genre. I don't have the book in front of me as I write, but I've read it. I can return to the questions it raised for me later. Mairead >>> weishaus@PDX.EDU 08/22/07 12:51 PM >>> David: I don't find this review strange, but right to the point. You have to be living in an alternative universe to think that this book represents the real feelings of the prisoners. Not only was it censored, but the original language wasn't allowed to be published, on the pretense that it contains secret messages! What could the secret message possibly be from someone in prison for so many years? One wonders if this is paranoia, playacting, or just plain stupidity. In any case, I think the review is basically sound, and that this book should not be taken seriously, certainly not by poets! If I have any problems with the review, it's with the author's contention that a poem can't reveal the reality of one's life. I think the opposite is true, only not in the case of this book. Best, Joel Weishaus Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 07:59:18 -0700 From: David Chirot Subject: Poems From Guant=3D?ISO-8859-1?Q?=3DE1namo:?=3D The Detainees S peak - Books - Review - New York Times this is a rather strange review-- http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/19/books/review/Chiasson-t.html?_r=3D1=3Dboo= ks=3Dslogin --- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 18:57:32 -0400 From: Andrew Rippeon Subject: Reminder: LA launch for P-Queue, vol. 4. Please join us at BetaLevel (www.betalevel.com) this Friday, to help celebr= =3D ate the Los Angeles launch of P-Queue, vol. 4, and to see LA-area contribut= =3D ors read from work appearing in this volume.=3D20=3D20 Readers will include: Harold Abramowitz Allison Carter Susanne Hall Mathew Timmons P-Queue, vol. 4 features work by: Harold Abramowitz =3DE2=3D80=3DA2 Jos=3DC3=3DA9 Alvergue =3DE2=3D80=3DA2 M= eg Barboza =3DE2=3D =3D80=3DA2 Ben Bedard =3DE2=3D80=3DA2 Allison Carter =3DE2=3D80=3DA2 Jon Co= tner =3DE2=3D80=3DA2 E=3D lizabeth Cross =3DE2=3D80=3DA2 David Driscoll =3DE2=3D80=3DA2 Andy Fitch = =3DE2=3D80=3DA2 Susa=3D nne Hall =3DE2=3D80=3DA2 Anthony Hawley =3DE2=3D80=3DA2 Laura Jaramillo =3D= E2=3D80=3DA2=3D20 Crane Giamo =3DE2=3D80=3DA2 Philip Metres =3DE2=3D80=3DA2 Michael Robbins = =3DE2=3D80=3DA2 Si=3D obhan Scarry =3DE2=3D80=3DA2 Jordan Stempleman =3DE2=3D80=3DA2 Michelle Tar= ansky =3DE2=3D80=3D =3DA2 Richard Taransky =3DE2=3D80=3DA2 Mathew Timmons =3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D P-Queue is a journal of poetry, poetics, and innovative prose, dedicated t= =3D o investigations of hybridity and cross-genre work. We=3DE2=3D80=3D99re sup= ported=3D by the Poetics Program, the English Department, and=3D20 various other sources in the Humanities at SUNY Buffalo. We=3DE2=3D80=3D99= ve had=3D a brief but exciting history of publishing innovative, unclassifiable work= =3D s from a variety of authors both at Buffalo and across the=3D20 nation. Volume 5, first in the second four-year series of P-Queue, is sche= =3D duled to feature a number of collaborative works continuing the journal=3DE= 2=3D =3D80=3D99s investigations of genre and convention. We can=3D20 be found on the web at www.pqueue.blogspot.com and through the EPC under = =3D =3DE2=3D80=3D9C@Buffalo=3DE2=3D80=3D9D at =3DE2=3D80=3D9CCurrent Student Pu= blications.=3DE2=3D80=3D =3D9D To order, visit our website or email: arippeon@buffalo.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 19:03:36 -0600 From: Andrea Rexilius Subject: Parcel Chapbook: Nate Pritts New at PARCEL PRESS www.parceljournal.org (*sonnets for the fall)* by Nate Pritts Nate Pritts is the author of SENSATIONAL SPECTACULAR (BlazeVOX) as well as several chapbooks. His poems have appeared widely in print & online journals such as Southern Review, Conduit, DIAGRAM, Forklift & Cimarron Review. His essays & reviews have appeared in New Writing (UK), Octopus, Midwest Quarterly & Rain Taxi. He is the editor of H_NGM_N, an online journal of poetry & poetics. This limited edition chapbook is available for order at: http://www.parceljournal.org/chapbooks/sonnets_for_the_fall.html The cost is $3. Orders may be sent to Parcel Chapbooks / c/o Andrea Rexilius / 2174 S. Grant St. / Denver, Co 80210. ------------------------------ End of POETICS Digest - 21 Aug 2007 to 22 Aug 2007 (#2007-234) ************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 09:06:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Coffey Subject: Re: Poems from Guant=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E1namo?= In-Reply-To: <015601c7e510$114e4c90$0300a8c0@Weishaus> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Joel, I don't get where you're coming from. The poems are indicative of what can happen to language in such a repressive state of affairs as Guantanamo. They don't need to be taken seriously as accomplished works, but as a warning of how poetry can be misused, and what official tampering with language and art looks like. A good cosmologist should take the Book of Genesis seriously; not because he or she believes that there is any scientific truth there, but because one can only really understand one's own position after absorbing other positions and realizing how they differ. Basic debate tips, really. On 8/22/07, Joel Weishaus wrote: > Mairead; > > If you mean the arguments around the book should be taken seriously, I > agree. If you mean the poetry should be taken seriously, I disagree. > Firstly, most of these poems, as I understand the situation, were not > written by poets. Thus, for a poet to take them seriously is like a > cosmologist taking the Book of Genesis seriously. Further, even those tha= t > may have been written by persons of talent, they are not their poems, bu= t > fabrications made up by the military. The real poems and stories we will = get > someday when these people are free to write them and publish them without > being censored by the very people who tortured them. You are right that i= t > does raise interesting questions, but political ones, not poetic ones. > > -Joel > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Mairead Byrne > Date: Aug 22, 2007 9:49 PM > Subject: Re: Poems from Guant=E1namo > To: POETICS@listserv.buffalo.edu > > > I find the claim that this book shouldn't be taken seriously, > "certainly not by poets," to be extraordinary. The extent to which > this book is embroiled in economic realities, both publishing and > political, offers a very strong invitation to this poet, at least, to > take it seriously. Joel, why do you say the book shouldn't be taken > seriously, "certainly not by poets"? Its publication by the > University of Iowa Press, in today's America, and the stated history > of its publication path make it very interesting to think and talk > about, in my view; as does the tension between the stated and very > visible challenges to its meaning, and all the less visible and > apprehensible challenges. It's like a cup which has lost every single > drop of poetry, except one maybe -- or even just the smell of poetry > in its pores. Or maybe it's just a cup which, because it has been > used to carry poetry, someone is still willing to carry. There is > meaning, maybe not centrally located. In the short essays, it's > clear how compromised the book is, yet it speaks. Not fluently, but > fluently. The dialogue between poetry and government in this book is > a scrap of reality, a broken but not worthless thing. Why should the > book not be taken seriously, "certainly not by poets"? It is a > product of the economies we work in, and raises many useful questions > about poetry for me, even at the level of nostalgia for a genre. I > don't have the book in front of me as I write, but I've read it. I > can return to the questions it raised for me later. > Mairead > > >>> weishaus@PDX.EDU 08/22/07 12:51 PM >>> > David: > > I don't find this review strange, but right to the point. You have to > be living in an alternative universe to think that this book > represents the real feelings of the prisoners. Not only was it > censored, but the original language wasn't allowed to be published, on > the pretense that it contains secret messages! What could the secret > message possibly be from someone in prison for so many years? One > wonders if this is paranoia, playacting, or just plain stupidity. > In any case, I think the review is basically sound, and that this book > should not be taken seriously, certainly not by poets! If I have any > problems with the review, it's with the author's contention that a > poem can't reveal the reality of one's life. I think the opposite is > true, only not in the case of this book. > > Best, > Joel Weishaus > > > Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 07:59:18 -0700 > From: David Chirot > Subject: Poems From Guant=3D?ISO-8859-1?Q?=3DE1namo:?=3D The Detainees S > peak - Books - Review - New York Times > > this is a rather strange review-- > > http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/19/books/review/Chiasson-t.html?_r=3D1&ref= =3Dbooks&oref=3Dslogin > --- > --=20 http://hyperhypo.org/blog http://www.pftborder.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 07:48:48 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Fw: Poems from Guantanamo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I received the letters below from Joseph Parsons, Acquisitions Editor of the University of Iowa Press. I think it clears up some of the points we've been discussing, and some of the points left out of the NYT book review, on which our discussion, and my viewpoint, was based. I'm forwarding Mr. Parson's letters with his permission. -Joel Joel Weishaus Visiting Faculty Department of English Portland State University Portland, Oregon http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph P. Parsons" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 6:35 PM Subject: Poems from Guantanamo Dear Joel (if I may)-- I've been following the thread on the Buffalo listserv and wanted to correct what I take to be a misconception on the part of many people. The poems were translated by linguists hired by the habeas attorneys, not by military translators. The confusion may arise from the fact that the linguists hold "top secret" clearance, but the same is true for the pro bono lawyers, one of whom is Marc Falkoff, the volume editor. All of the attorneys submitted to background checks before being cleared to represent their clients. The poems that form the body of the book--and, I'd argue, it does a disservice to critique the work without having read the essays that appear in the front and back--were submitted for release. How the PRT (privilege review teams) decided what would be cleared and what would be held back is unclear to all of us. According to Marc and the other attorneys, there seems to be little logic too it. In many cases, the translations were cleared but the Arabic or Pashto versions were not. One poem in particular, "The First Poem of My Life," was actually retranslated by Flagg Miller from the original Arabic and appears in his form in the book. He deemed the remaining poems for which we had originals in Arabic to be at worst workmanlike translations. To fully appreciate the poems, it's worth reading Flagg's essay, which places them in the context of traditional Arabic qasida verse. Meghan O'Rourke, in contrast to Dan Chiasson, devotes some space to this theme. (As an aside, the censorship reached absurb levels. In one case, a letter from a child to her father being held in Guantanamo was entirely redacted except for "I love you dad." In another case, "One, two, three, four, five. Once I caught a fish alive" was redacted in a letter from a child to a father.) What's key to keep in mind is that the translators were working without the benefit of their usual resources--dictionaries and other supporting material, for example--and had to make the best of it. In every case, Marc and the translation team reviewed the poems that found their way into the book and corrected whatever errors they were able to identify. (It's worth mentioning that Marc also holds a Ph.D. in English literature and taught for several years at Purchase before going to law school, so he's not simply dabbling in this.) In any case, I resist the urge to interpose myself in these discussion, but in this case I decided to break my usual self-imposed rule. All best regards, Joe Parsons Joseph P. Parsons Acquisitions Editor University of Iowa Press 100 Kuhl House 119 West Park Road Iowa City, Iowa 52242-1000 Phone 319-335-3440 / Fax 319-335-2055 http://www.uiowa.edu/~uipress In response to a question I had on how the poems were chosen, Mr. Parsons wrote: "It's difficult to answer that question of choice. In the case of the choices we--Marc and I--made, it was simply a matter of publishing pretty much everything we had. In a few cases--for instance, Moazzam Begg, who is now free and back in the U.K.--we had handful of poems on hand and opted to limit the number simply to keep the collection from being dominated by a single poet. As for what the Pentagon chose to release, I can't even venture a guess." -Joel ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 10:50:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Grace Paley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A wonderfully generous=20 fighter for pacifism to the=20 end. Gerald S. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 08:44:51 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Acclaimed Writer Grace Paley Dies at 84 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/23/AR2007082300790.html --------------------------------- Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 11:27:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Poems from Guant=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E1namo?= In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline "just about everything is unsaid. i'm not sure what's really interesting about all poetry is what's said. instead, it can be the inroads it makes into the unsaid. books are often famous not for what they say but as materializations of or testaments to a situation or time or to people or peoples etc. or as objects emblematic of a concept." Jim, This is a great post. Yes, the work of interest for me must be infested with its times. "Infested" here is both a positive and negative value, for what it is, belonging to its time. What may belong to Guantanamo than suppression and suffering, in your words Jim the absence around suffering. Ciao, Murat On 8/23/07, Jim Andrews wrote: > > > If you mean the arguments around the book should be taken seriously, I > > agree. If you mean the poetry should be taken seriously, I disagree. > > Firstly, most of these poems, as I understand the situation, were not > > written by poets. Thus, for a poet to take them seriously is like a > > cosmologist taking the Book of Genesis seriously. Further, even > > those that > > may have been written by persons of talent, they are not their > > poems, but > > fabrications made up by the military. The real poems and stories > > we will get > > someday when these people are free to write them and publish them > without > > being censored by the very people who tortured them. You are > > right that it > > does raise interesting questions, but political ones, not poetic ones. > > > > -Joel > > my intuition is that you're mistaken, joel. > > what's interesting in contemporary poetry, to me, is not usually the > well-crafted poem. though that can be interesting. > > there are books being created now, such as ken goldsmith's work and, say, > kervinen's "(no subject)" that are of real interest but are quite > different > from the well-crafted poem or novel or book. > > just about everything is unsaid. i'm not sure what's really interesting > about all poetry is what's said. instead, it can be the inroads it makes > into the unsaid. > > books are often famous not for what they say but as materializations of or > testaments to a situation or time or to people or peoples etc. or as > objects > emblematic of a concept. > > poets, when they are famous, are sometimes famous not so much for their > poetry as their place in a network or a movement or a demographic or > whatever. > > part of what is significant in poetry is the nature of its intensities of > language, its relations with language, the way that language and its > contemporary states are drawn into the vortex of the poem or book or site > or > whatever the manifestation of the language/poetry is. > > the poems from guantanamo--the poems themselves and also the whole frame, > the whole situation--should be of deep concern, particularly in the usa. > poetry detained. poetry is detained not only in the usa but in other > western > countries. not only poetry but art and thought. by the authorities? well > usually we are our own authorities, aren't we. > > you speak of "the real poems and stories" as opposed to the "fabrications > made up by the military". it's of course true that the poems and stories > in > the book are tortured by the military. > > but perhaps what is significant is not the authenticity of the poems but > the > nature of their inauthenticity. perhaps what is significant is not the > poems > themselves, authentic or inauthentic but the whole complex of the > situation, > situated as art. i know it is more of a sort of approach generally > associated with visual art than literary art, but it has its usefulness. > in > this case, it allows us to see significance where a more traditional > literary approach to the well-crafted poem leaves us in a situation where, > as you say, we can only see the significance of the book in political > terms, > not in relation to art and language. > > ja > http://vispo.com > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 08:32:41 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Re: Poems from Guant=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E1namo?= In-Reply-To: <015601c7e510$114e4c90$0300a8c0@Weishaus> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline I am not sure if a post i sent earlier re the Guantanamo poetry was read or not re this discussion (it shows up on hotmail but not as yet at gmail; sent 12 hours ago)--forgive me if i may repeat two or three of its points while adding some others-- Even though written by non-poets and distranslated via the military approved translators, it has been noted in several pieces re the Guantanamo Poetry that the writers were using images, forms, allusions, meaphors, rhmes that are part of their traditional cultures as well as that of Arabic literature. A phrase which may come across as trite and "bad poetry" --made worse by the distransaltions by non literary translators--in the original language, if Americans knew more of the writer's literary traditions from which he or she is drawing, the same phrase would be seen to have a deeper and more poetic reverberation, resonance, allusion and meaning. I think that the rush to judgement that the poetry is "bad", "not poetry", is a further form of muzzling, in that it assumes that there is no such use of language and poetic culture being made by even non-poets who have grow up immersed in a very immense literature, oral and written, as well informed by the cadences, images, teachings of Islam and the verses of the Koran. (Do not American poets draw on the images and cadences of their religious texts, the Bible, Buddhist Sutras, American Indian sacred songs, the majestic rhythms and call and response of the Black Church, the frenzied and ecstatic speaking in tongues of Pentacostalism , Hindi chanting and song, Ginsberg's "Kaddish", the Kabbalah and Torah, the sounds of the Cantor's phrasings used in the creation of poems?) I don't think the questions the book brings up are solely political; I think many of them have very much to do with poetry, one of the examples being the immediate assumption that "non-poets" in any culture don't have access to a great many poetic devices, images, rhythms taken from their culture, cultural traditions and religious texts, as well as song lyrics and the "brut" imagery sounds of colloquial speech and slang. There is also the assumption that poets writing from another culture somehow do not have a reason for using the conventional seeming (to "us") imagery that they do, when it is possible that for the writers the same line may be a correspondance with a classical verse or famous contemporary poem, or one taught in schools. The military, and as I wrote earlier, the times reviewer, and I think many positions easily adopted re the poetry as "not poetry" or "bad poetry" are based on the same fear--that there is indeed something that is somehow getting through all the obstacles placed in the writings' paths, some kind of "message" or "meaning" being smuggled out in plain sight and being found and understood by someone somewhere. That element which gets past all the censors and non-literary translations, criticisms, may this not be what is at the heart of poetry, in no matter how mangled and "bad" a form? isn't that what prompts the need to erect further barriers, such as poetry cannot be made by non-poets. Frankly, who is to say who can and cannot make poetry? Is poetry a kind of gated, heavily secured community open to only the few? Is this poetry "suspect" because the writers are "suspects", "terrorists", non-poets, poorly or distranslated by non-literary translators? The doubled layering of non-poet and non-literary translator --who is to say that poetry isn't capable of being created and communicated nonetheless, in ways not recognized by the professional poet, literary critic, literary translator? Isn't there a fear in this poetic regard analogous to that of the military in regards to messages, communiques, somehow getting past the best professionals no matter how many boundaries are set up? The professional poet, like the professional military, has a fear of the "insurgent," the (poetic) "terrorist," the person "not with us" but "against us". The issue of the translations, thenon-literaryy translations is very "poetic" issue also. A lot of "avant" poetry techniques for a good hundred years have made use of various forms of "alternate" and distorting translation in order to create creative mistranslations" as well as censoring forms of non-literary and/or distranslations, altering texts to fit better within a given poetic ideology or canon, history or criticism, to overturn some other text or create a missing text in a mosaic being arrayed to construct a new genre or category. In fact, the Military's and lawyers' use of non-literary translators seems very much a kind of "avant" technique for the creation of "post avant critiques of the discourses and disciplines of translation"--a breaking down, a "transgressing" of borders, a "rupturing" of categories, of norms, astonishingly like many an example by a practicing, professional, certified poet. Aren't some of the little writing exercises advocated here recently in Bernstein's list not unlike this practice being used by the military and attorneys military and othewise who had to be involved? "Translate a poem from a (poetic) language you don't really know"! "Translate poems by amateurs using non-literary techniques of composition in your own language"! "Translate poetry in a language you know written by amateurs in conventional forms common to their language while doing everything you can to break down the semblance of the poetic--conventional or avant--in your own language"! Is there perhaps a fear on the part of the poetic that a book which supposedly can be valued only by being in the "witness" category of writing may actually, via the military, attorneys, agendas, be the product of the poetic's own ideas and practices of the "post/avant"? In other words, yet again, that POETRY may have in spite of everything made it past the censors, the guards, the critics, the professional military and poets? On 8/22/07, Joel Weishaus wrote: > Mairead; > > If you mean the arguments around the book should be taken seriously, I > agree. If you mean the poetry should be taken seriously, I disagree. > Firstly, most of these poems, as I understand the situation, were not > written by poets. Thus, for a poet to take them seriously is like a > cosmologist taking the Book of Genesis seriously. Further, even those tha= t > may have been written by persons of talent, they are not their poems, bu= t > fabrications made up by the military. The real poems and stories we will = get > someday when these people are free to write them and publish them without > being censored by the very people who tortured them. You are right that i= t > does raise interesting questions, but political ones, not poetic ones. > > -Joel > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Mairead Byrne > Date: Aug 22, 2007 9:49 PM > Subject: Re: Poems from Guant=E1namo > To: POETICS@listserv.buffalo.edu > > > I find the claim that this book shouldn't be taken seriously, > "certainly not by poets," to be extraordinary. The extent to which > this book is embroiled in economic realities, both publishing and > political, offers a very strong invitation to this poet, at least, to > take it seriously. Joel, why do you say the book shouldn't be taken > seriously, "certainly not by poets"? Its publication by the > University of Iowa Press, in today's America, and the stated history > of its publication path make it very interesting to think and talk > about, in my view; as does the tension between the stated and very > visible challenges to its meaning, and all the less visible and > apprehensible challenges. It's like a cup which has lost every single > drop of poetry, except one maybe -- or even just the smell of poetry > in its pores. Or maybe it's just a cup which, because it has been > used to carry poetry, someone is still willing to carry. There is > meaning, maybe not centrally located. In the short essays, it's > clear how compromised the book is, yet it speaks. Not fluently, but > fluently. The dialogue between poetry and government in this book is > a scrap of reality, a broken but not worthless thing. Why should the > book not be taken seriously, "certainly not by poets"? It is a > product of the economies we work in, and raises many useful questions > about poetry for me, even at the level of nostalgia for a genre. I > don't have the book in front of me as I write, but I've read it. I > can return to the questions it raised for me later. > Mairead > > >>> weishaus@PDX.EDU 08/22/07 12:51 PM >>> > David: > > I don't find this review strange, but right to the point. You have to > be living in an alternative universe to think that this book > represents the real feelings of the prisoners. Not only was it > censored, but the original language wasn't allowed to be published, on > the pretense that it contains secret messages! What could the secret > message possibly be from someone in prison for so many years? One > wonders if this is paranoia, playacting, or just plain stupidity. > In any case, I think the review is basically sound, and that this book > should not be taken seriously, certainly not by poets! If I have any > problems with the review, it's with the author's contention that a > poem can't reveal the reality of one's life. I think the opposite is > true, only not in the case of this book. > > Best, > Joel Weishaus > > > Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 07:59:18 -0700 > From: David Chirot > Subject: Poems From Guant=3D?ISO-8859-1?Q?=3DE1namo:?=3D The Detainees S > peak - Books - Review - New York Times > > this is a rather strange review-- > > http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/19/books/review/Chiasson-t.html?_r=3D1&ref= =3Dbooks&oref=3Dslogin > --- > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 09:57:35 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Clay Banes Subject: Re: listenlight new issue 11 In-Reply-To: <46CD750F.5010604@listenlight.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline jesse, i hate to edit you, but it's never "the hoi polloi." On 8/23/07, J Crockett wrote: > "Back to basics" > > > featuring works by --- > > doctors, lawyers, and the hoi polloi > > > http://listenlight.net > -- EYEBALL HATRED http://claytonbanes.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 10:05:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: Poems from Guant=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E1namo?= In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline it is pretty interesting to consider as a book, as a poetry anthology. for example, it asks for you to read the cover copy, press release, and intro more than most; it asks you to read the bios by putting them before the poems by that poet, and by writing the bios in atypical ways (also, they are in a different typeface and color, and flipping through I saw one and thought, "oh a prose poem! how surprising from arabic, and, you know, it was a BIO) it does lay bare the political aspects of all antholgising, although some publishers I know claim anthologies don't sell well, and others say anthologies put their presses on the map, sell well, get extraordinary distribution, etc. I was initially reminded of the old short story anthologies from the former "eastern bloc" -- I bought a lot of them, they had appealingly scary bloody sickles and things on the covers, just the items to bring to a catholic high school; on further reflection, perhaps like those compilation albums from pretty awful metal bands in "CCCP" All best, Catherine ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 13:19:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Acclaimed Writer Grace Paley Dies at 84 In-Reply-To: <320608.58311.qm@web83309.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed This from the Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/23/books/23cnd-paley.html This is deeply saddening. I knew Grace a little and like I think everyone who knew her at all I loved her. Totally without affectation, and her spoken language was astonishingly the language of her stories. Enormous generosity. Mark At 11:44 AM 8/23/2007, you wrote: >http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/23/AR2007082300790.html > > > > >--------------------------------- >Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: >mail, news, photos & more. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 10:34:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: Acclaimed Writer Grace Paley Dies at 84 In-Reply-To: <320608.58311.qm@web83309.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit As someone who knew Grace Paley for fifty-five years (I met her when I was four years old) I am deeply sad to learn of her passing. She was such a wonderful writer and a great person. Although I knew her mostly when I was a child, I would see her at her readings and she would remember me. Her books of short stories and poems will continue to shine for a long time. Regards, Tom Savage amy king wrote: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/23/AR2007082300790.html --------------------------------- Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. --------------------------------- Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 13:38:31 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Poems from Guant=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E1namo?= In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable to me the poetry I have read in the volume immediately conveys how anothe= r human being is suffering, and that we must hear. On 8/23/07 11:32 AM, "David Chirot" wrote: > I am not sure if a post i sent earlier re the Guantanamo poetry was > read or not re this discussion (it shows up on hotmail but not as yet > at gmail; sent 12 hours ago)--forgive me if i may repeat two or three > of its points while adding some others-- >=20 > Even though written by non-poets and distranslated via the > military approved translators, it has been noted in several pieces re > the Guantanamo Poetry that the writers were using images, forms, > allusions, meaphors, rhmes that are part of their traditional cultures > as well as that of Arabic literature. A phrase which may come across > as trite and "bad poetry" --made worse by the distransaltions by non > literary translators--in the original language, if Americans knew > more of the writer's literary traditions from which he or she is > drawing, the same phrase would be seen to have a deeper and more > poetic reverberation, resonance, allusion and meaning. I think that > the rush to judgement that the poetry is "bad", "not poetry", is a > further form of muzzling, in that it assumes that there is no such use > of language and poetic culture being made by even non-poets who have > grow up immersed in a very immense literature, oral and written, as > well informed by the cadences, images, teachings of Islam and the > verses of the Koran. > (Do not American poets draw on the images and cadences of their > religious texts, the Bible, Buddhist Sutras, American Indian sacred > songs, the majestic rhythms and call and response of the Black Church, > the frenzied and ecstatic speaking in tongues of Pentacostalism , > Hindi chanting and song, Ginsberg's "Kaddish", the Kabbalah and Torah, > the sounds of the Cantor's phrasings used in the creation of poems?) > I don't think the questions the book brings up are solely > political; I think many of them have very much to do with poetry, one > of the examples being the immediate assumption that "non-poets" in > any culture don't have access to a great many poetic devices, images, > rhythms taken from their culture, cultural traditions and religious > texts, as well as song lyrics and the "brut" imagery sounds of > colloquial speech and slang. There is also the assumption that poets > writing from another culture somehow do not have a reason for using > the conventional seeming (to "us") imagery that they do, when it is > possible that for the writers the same line may be a correspondance > with a classical verse or famous contemporary poem, or one taught in > schools. > The military, and as I wrote earlier, the times reviewer, and > I think many positions easily adopted re the poetry as "not poetry" or > "bad poetry" are based on the same fear--that there is indeed > something that is somehow getting through all the obstacles placed in > the writings' paths, some kind of "message" or "meaning" being > smuggled out in plain sight and being found and understood by someone > somewhere. That element which gets past all the censors and > non-literary translations, criticisms, may this not be what is at the > heart of poetry, in no matter how mangled and "bad" a form? isn't > that what prompts the need to erect further barriers, such as poetry > cannot be made by non-poets. Frankly, who is to say who can and > cannot make poetry? Is poetry a kind of gated, heavily secured > community open to only the few? Is this poetry "suspect" because the > writers are "suspects", "terrorists", non-poets, poorly or > distranslated by non-literary translators? > The doubled layering of non-poet and non-literary translator --who is > to say that poetry isn't capable of being created and communicated > nonetheless, in ways not recognized by the > professional poet, literary critic, literary translator? Isn't > there a fear in this poetic regard analogous to that of the military > in regards to messages, communiques, somehow getting past the best > professionals no matter how many boundaries are set up? The > professional poet, like the professional military, has a fear of the > "insurgent," the (poetic) "terrorist," the person "not with us" but > "against us". > The issue of the translations, thenon-literaryy translations > is very "poetic" issue also. A lot of "avant" poetry techniques for > a good hundred years have made use of various forms of "alternate" and > distorting translation in order to create > creative mistranslations" as well as censoring forms of non-literary > and/or distranslations, altering texts to fit better within a given > poetic ideology or canon, history or criticism, to overturn some other > text or create a missing text in a mosaic being arrayed to construct a > new genre or category. > In fact, the Military's and lawyers' use of non-literary > translators seems very much a kind of "avant" technique for the > creation of "post avant critiques of the discourses and disciplines of > translation"--a breaking down, a "transgressing" of borders, a > "rupturing" of categories, of norms, astonishingly like many an > example by a practicing, professional, certified poet. Aren't some of > the little writing exercises advocated here recently in Bernstein's > list not unlike this practice being used by the military and attorneys > military and othewise who had to be involved? "Translate a poem from > a (poetic) language you don't really know"! "Translate poems by > amateurs using non-literary techniques of composition in your own > language"! > "Translate poetry in a language you know written by amateurs in > conventional forms common to their language while doing everything you > can to break down the semblance of the poetic--conventional or > avant--in your own language"! > Is there perhaps a fear on the part of the poetic that a book > which supposedly can be valued only by being in the "witness" > category of writing may actually, via the military, attorneys, > agendas, be the product of the poetic's own ideas and practices of the > "post/avant"? > In other words, yet again, that POETRY may have in spite of > everything made it past the censors, the guards, the critics, the > professional military and poets? >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > On 8/22/07, Joel Weishaus wrote: >> Mairead; >>=20 >> If you mean the arguments around the book should be taken seriously, I >> agree. If you mean the poetry should be taken seriously, I disagree. >> Firstly, most of these poems, as I understand the situation, were not >> written by poets. Thus, for a poet to take them seriously is like a >> cosmologist taking the Book of Genesis seriously. Further, even those th= at >> may have been written by persons of talent, they are not their poems, b= ut >> fabrications made up by the military. The real poems and stories we will= get >> someday when these people are free to write them and publish them withou= t >> being censored by the very people who tortured them. You are right that = it >> does raise interesting questions, but political ones, not poetic ones. >>=20 >> -Joel >>=20 >>=20 >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Mairead Byrne >> Date: Aug 22, 2007 9:49 PM >> Subject: Re: Poems from Guant=E1namo >> To: POETICS@listserv.buffalo.edu >>=20 >>=20 >> I find the claim that this book shouldn't be taken seriously, >> "certainly not by poets," to be extraordinary. The extent to which >> this book is embroiled in economic realities, both publishing and >> political, offers a very strong invitation to this poet, at least, to >> take it seriously. Joel, why do you say the book shouldn't be taken >> seriously, "certainly not by poets"? Its publication by the >> University of Iowa Press, in today's America, and the stated history >> of its publication path make it very interesting to think and talk >> about, in my view; as does the tension between the stated and very >> visible challenges to its meaning, and all the less visible and >> apprehensible challenges. It's like a cup which has lost every single >> drop of poetry, except one maybe -- or even just the smell of poetry >> in its pores. Or maybe it's just a cup which, because it has been >> used to carry poetry, someone is still willing to carry. There is >> meaning, maybe not centrally located. In the short essays, it's >> clear how compromised the book is, yet it speaks. Not fluently, but >> fluently. The dialogue between poetry and government in this book is >> a scrap of reality, a broken but not worthless thing. Why should the >> book not be taken seriously, "certainly not by poets"? It is a >> product of the economies we work in, and raises many useful questions >> about poetry for me, even at the level of nostalgia for a genre. I >> don't have the book in front of me as I write, but I've read it. I >> can return to the questions it raised for me later. >> Mairead >>=20 >>>>> weishaus@PDX.EDU 08/22/07 12:51 PM >>> >> David: >>=20 >> I don't find this review strange, but right to the point. You have to >> be living in an alternative universe to think that this book >> represents the real feelings of the prisoners. Not only was it >> censored, but the original language wasn't allowed to be published, on >> the pretense that it contains secret messages! What could the secret >> message possibly be from someone in prison for so many years? One >> wonders if this is paranoia, playacting, or just plain stupidity. >> In any case, I think the review is basically sound, and that this book >> should not be taken seriously, certainly not by poets! If I have any >> problems with the review, it's with the author's contention that a >> poem can't reveal the reality of one's life. I think the opposite is >> true, only not in the case of this book. >>=20 >> Best, >> Joel Weishaus >>=20 >>=20 >> Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 07:59:18 -0700 >> From: David Chirot >> Subject: Poems From Guant=3D?ISO-8859-1?Q?=3DE1namo:?=3D The Detainees S >> peak - Books - Review - New York Times >>=20 >> this is a rather strange review-- >>=20 >> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/19/books/review/Chiasson-t.html?_r=3D1&ref=3D= books >> &oref=3Dslogin >> --- >>=20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 14:32:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Skinner Subject: Grace Paley Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit This obit overlooks the fact that Grace was also a wonderful poet--one who, without simplifying or degrading the tasks proper to poetry, showed that poets could and needed to be responsible to more than poetry. "I wrote a lot of poems, and I went to a lot of demonstrations," she said. She was a feminist who wrote great poems about fathers. She was an environmentalist who straddled the urban-rural divide--a poet laureate of Vermont, with Yiddish roots and a green thumb. And she was a fabulous performer: indeed, a natural storyteller. She wrote without sanctimony, with great wit and humor, about all-too-human life in a more-than-human world. JS Interview, with readings, here: http://www.nhpr.org/node/8897 "Then Vera stopped at the flower called fireweed . . . . . . Still we are the gardeners of this world and often talk about giving wildness its chance it's I who cut the field too late too early right on time and therefore out of the earth which is a darkness of timed seed and waiting root the sunlight chose vervain jewel weed boneset just beyond our woodchuck-argued garden a great nation of ants has lived for fifteen years in a high sandy anthill which I honor with looking and looking and never disrupt (nor have I learned their lesson of stubborn industry) they ask nothing except to be not bothered and I personally agree" (Gracy Paley, Thetford Poems) http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/23/AR2007082300 858_2.html?hpid=moreheadlines Acclaimed Writer Grace Paley Dies at 84 By Adam Bernstein Washington Post Staff Writer Thursday, August 23, 2007; 12:14 PM Grace Paley, 84, an American writer who achieved literary renown as a master of the short story and forged a small but influential body of work that illuminated the frustrations and joys of women's lives, died Aug. 22 at her home in Thetford, Vt. She had breast cancer. Ms. Paley's output was relatively small -- several dozen short stories as well as a few collections of poetry and essays -- but the quality of her work attracted superlatives from the country's brightest literary figures. Novelist Philip Roth praised her "understanding of loneliness, lust, selfishness and fatigue that is splendidly comic and unladylike." Writer Susan Sontag called her "a rare kind of writer, a natural with a voice like no one else's: funny, sad, lean, modest, energetic, acute." Ms. Paley was often regarded as a feminist writer because her stories brought rare and early insight into how urban women struggle with emotional and physical vulnerabilities; demanding children and lovers; and absent, often misogynistic husbands. She found the feminist label confining, yet she gave credit to the movement for elevating her stature. "Every woman writing in these years has had to swim in the feminist wave," she wrote. "No matter what she thinks of it, even if she bravely swims against it, she has been supported by it -- the buoyancy, the noise, the saltiness." Her earliest stories were rich in humor and irony. In "The Loudest Voice," a Jewish child's vocal stamina makes her the ideal narrator of a school Christmas play. Ms. Paley gradually gave way to grimmer themes ranging from rape to mental illness. She also ventured into character studies less driven by plot. She tended to draw more mixed reviews for the later work. Still, Robert R. Harris, an editor for the New York Times Book Review, once noted that Ms. Paley's literary reputation remained largely untarnished because "her best stories have staying power, and a few can justifiably be called brilliant." Her first collection, "The Little Disturbances of Man" (1959) contained some of her most anthologized works, including "Goodbye and Good Luck." The story is narrated by the vivacious Rosie, who has a long affair with a married Russian actor known as "the Valentino of Second Avenue." "Goodbye and Good Luck" contained many of the hallmarks of her prose -- the uncluttered sentences, the flawed but sympathetic female narrator and the pitch-perfect Bronx street vernacular of her youth that U.S. poet laureate Robert Pinsky once called "the lyrically yakking cadence of New York City speech." The title of the collection referred to a line in another short story, "An Interest in Life," in which a housewife named Virginia sums up in the opening sentences the husband who has deserted her: "My husband gave me a broom one Christmas. This wasn't right. No one can tell me it was meant kindly." Virginia later takes a lover who discourages her from trying to get on a game show called "Strike It Rich" because the program is meant to help people who "really suffer" in natural catastrophes, not those enduring "the little disturbances of man." Ms. Paley wrote her fiction slowly and sparingly, spending a great deal of time focused on her deepening political involvement as a pacifist concerned with environmental and anti-military causes. There was a 15-year gap between her first short-story collection and "Enormous Changes at the Last Minute" (1974), which received mixed reviews as she experimented with style and darker content. The short-story collection "Later the Same Day" came out in 1985, the same year as her book of poetry called "Leaning Forward." She also wrote "365 Reasons Not to Have Another War," published in 1989. In her fiction, she often rekindled her alter-ego, a single mother named Faith, to comment on sex, friendship and, ultimately, aging. Although Ms. Paley once attempted a novel, she said she had no luck and shrugged off the effort by saying "art is too long and life is too short." She was the daughter of Jewish-Ukrainian immigrants who had been dedicated anti-czarists and punished with exile. The family name was changed from Gutzeit to Goodside upon arrival in New York. Her father, Isaac, became a doctor and a painter. Grace Goodside was born Dec. 11, 1922, in the Bronx. She later recalled the neighborhood as "a world so dense with Jews that I thought we were the great imposing majority." As a child, she developed a keen ear for the Yiddish, Russian and broken English spoken around her. A bright but indifferent student, she entered Hunter College at 15 and was expelled the next year for absenteeism. "I really went to school on poetry," she later told The Washington Post. In the early 1940s, while working as a typist for an elevator repair company, she studied under English poet W.H. Auden at the New School for Social Research in New York. She was deeply influenced by his criticism of her work. He advised her not to borrow words from his prose, such as "subaltern," and instead find her own voice. In 1942, she married Jess Paley, a movie cameraman. They had two children before divorcing, Nora Paley, now of Thetford, and Danny Paley, now of Brooklyn, N.Y. Besides those two children, survivors include her second husband, author Robert Nichols, whom she married in 1972, of Thetford; three stepchildren, Duncan Nichols of Thetford, Eliza Nichols of Manhattan, N.Y., and Kerstin Nichols of Hartford, Vt.; and seven grandchildren. As a young mother, Ms. Paley drifted away from writing for more than a decade and became involved in community activism in Greenwich Village. Then she had what she called "the first of two small lucks": a bout of flu that kept her away from her children and gave her time to think and write; and meeting a father of her children's friends who was an editor at Doubleday. He encouraged her writing and ultimately urged Doubleday to publish "The Little Disturbances of Man." The book received elaborate praise and established her reputation. However, Ms. Paley, who once described herself as "a somewhat combative pacifist and cooperative anarchist," was willingly distracted from her writing by other pursuits. She gave more attention to teaching fiction at Sarah Lawrence College north of New York City and especially to her political activism. During the Vietnam War, she encouraged young men to avoid military service, participated in rallies against the war and in 1969 went to Hanoi as part of a U.S. delegation to bring home prisoners of war. She once spent time at Greenwich Village's Women's House of Detention for blocking a military parade. She described her time there in the essay "Six Days, Some Rememberings," noting among other things that the bullpen is "an odd name for a women's holding facility." In 1978, she and other members of the War Resisters League were arrested and fined $100 for unlawful entry on the White House lawn and unfurling an antinuclear banner. During this period, she also attended peace conferences in the Soviet Union and El Salvador, meeting in the second with mothers of the disappeared during a bloody anti-government struggle. A New Yorker, she also maintained a second home in Vermont, where she protested the war in Iraq in a low-key manner she once described as "vigiling on the common." Ms. Paley could talk wryly of her activism. In her introduction to the "Greenwich Village Peace Center Cookbook," she warned the reader that "this cookbook is for people who are not so neurotically antiauthoritarian as I am -- to whom one can say, 'Add the juice of one lemon' without the furious response, 'Is that a direct order?' " ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 11:38:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: Poems from Guant=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E1namo?= In-Reply-To: <1dec21ae0708230827q1ced8816g50bca96a6442b7c6@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit A poem only has to be a good poem, whether by a "professional poet" or not. Who makes this judgment? All of us, each individually to him or her own self, and none of us. The decision about what is "great" poetry is usually not up to us. We get by by writing what we write. Nevertheless, I'm astounded that the U.S. government has bothered to publish a book of poetry by Guantanamo detainees. Of course, it's suspect as I said before. But poetry usually being a very low priority in the U.S. of A., it's still surprising that this book, which I have not seen, has emerged at all. Let us hope that all of the innocents who are held captive in Guantanamo are released soon, as well. Regards, Tom Savage Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: "just about everything is unsaid. i'm not sure what's really interesting about all poetry is what's said. instead, it can be the inroads it makes into the unsaid. books are often famous not for what they say but as materializations of or testaments to a situation or time or to people or peoples etc. or as objects emblematic of a concept." Jim, This is a great post. Yes, the work of interest for me must be infested with its times. "Infested" here is both a positive and negative value, for what it is, belonging to its time. What may belong to Guantanamo than suppression and suffering, in your words Jim the absence around suffering. Ciao, Murat On 8/23/07, Jim Andrews wrote: > > > If you mean the arguments around the book should be taken seriously, I > > agree. If you mean the poetry should be taken seriously, I disagree. > > Firstly, most of these poems, as I understand the situation, were not > > written by poets. Thus, for a poet to take them seriously is like a > > cosmologist taking the Book of Genesis seriously. Further, even > > those that > > may have been written by persons of talent, they are not their > > poems, but > > fabrications made up by the military. The real poems and stories > > we will get > > someday when these people are free to write them and publish them > without > > being censored by the very people who tortured them. You are > > right that it > > does raise interesting questions, but political ones, not poetic ones. > > > > -Joel > > my intuition is that you're mistaken, joel. > > what's interesting in contemporary poetry, to me, is not usually the > well-crafted poem. though that can be interesting. > > there are books being created now, such as ken goldsmith's work and, say, > kervinen's "(no subject)" that are of real interest but are quite > different > from the well-crafted poem or novel or book. > > just about everything is unsaid. i'm not sure what's really interesting > about all poetry is what's said. instead, it can be the inroads it makes > into the unsaid. > > books are often famous not for what they say but as materializations of or > testaments to a situation or time or to people or peoples etc. or as > objects > emblematic of a concept. > > poets, when they are famous, are sometimes famous not so much for their > poetry as their place in a network or a movement or a demographic or > whatever. > > part of what is significant in poetry is the nature of its intensities of > language, its relations with language, the way that language and its > contemporary states are drawn into the vortex of the poem or book or site > or > whatever the manifestation of the language/poetry is. > > the poems from guantanamo--the poems themselves and also the whole frame, > the whole situation--should be of deep concern, particularly in the usa. > poetry detained. poetry is detained not only in the usa but in other > western > countries. not only poetry but art and thought. by the authorities? well > usually we are our own authorities, aren't we. > > you speak of "the real poems and stories" as opposed to the "fabrications > made up by the military". it's of course true that the poems and stories > in > the book are tortured by the military. > > but perhaps what is significant is not the authenticity of the poems but > the > nature of their inauthenticity. perhaps what is significant is not the > poems > themselves, authentic or inauthentic but the whole complex of the > situation, > situated as art. i know it is more of a sort of approach generally > associated with visual art than literary art, but it has its usefulness. > in > this case, it allows us to see significance where a more traditional > literary approach to the well-crafted poem leaves us in a situation where, > as you say, we can only see the significance of the book in political > terms, > not in relation to art and language. > > ja > http://vispo.com > --------------------------------- Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 14:33:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: Re: Poems from Guant=?iso-8859-1?Q?=E1namo?= In-Reply-To: <46CD8C37.80007@umn.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable fyi (I've probably mentioned this here before):=20 "poet, poem, poetry" derive from the Greek poiein, "to make", also "to = cause, effect, create, render, grow, produce, invent..."=20 Greek pots were often signed by their makers "X me epoien" -- "X made = me" I bring this etymology forward to our time by seeing poetic work as a = made thing, a crafted object -- while you can become a master = craftsperson through diligent study of the way objects like this are = made, someone else can just as easily pick up a lump of clay and mold = their own pot with the same tools (their hands) as the master -- the = result will be different from the master's, but (theoretically) it will = still carry water.=20 based on this line of reasoning, the act of writing a poem makes the = author a poet.=20 does this fit with what Maria is saying in her comment, or am I off on = my own simplistic tangent?=20 -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] = On Behalf Of Maria Damon Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 8:32 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Poems from Guant=E1namo i am uncomfortable with the aesthetic hierarchy espoused here, reified=20 in the word "talent." it is true that such a thing does and does not=20 exist, but it is certainly not the only, or the most salient, criterion = by which we determine whether something has worth. to reify the person=20 of the "poet," is , to my mind, even more dangerous. talk about=20 policing! i do agree, though, that discussions around the poetry is at = least as important as the poetry itself, but i might argue this about=20 any "poem." Joel Weishaus wrote: > Mairead; > > If you mean the arguments around the book should be taken seriously, = I=20 > agree. If you mean the poetry should be taken seriously, I disagree.=20 > Firstly, most of these poems, as I understand the situation, were not=20 > written by poets. Thus, for a poet to take them seriously is like a=20 > cosmologist taking the Book of Genesis seriously. Further, even those = that=20 > may have been written by persons of talent, they are not their poems, = but=20 > fabrications made up by the military. The real poems and stories we = will get=20 > someday when these people are free to write them and publish them = without=20 > being censored by the very people who tortured them. You are right = that it=20 > does raise interesting questions, but political ones, not poetic ones. > > -Joel > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Mairead Byrne > Date: Aug 22, 2007 9:49 PM > Subject: Re: Poems from Guant=E1namo > To: POETICS@listserv.buffalo.edu > > > I find the claim that this book shouldn't be taken seriously, > "certainly not by poets," to be extraordinary. The extent to which > this book is embroiled in economic realities, both publishing and > political, offers a very strong invitation to this poet, at least, to > take it seriously. Joel, why do you say the book shouldn't be taken > seriously, "certainly not by poets"? Its publication by the > University of Iowa Press, in today's America, and the stated history > of its publication path make it very interesting to think and talk > about, in my view; as does the tension between the stated and very > visible challenges to its meaning, and all the less visible and > apprehensible challenges. It's like a cup which has lost every single > drop of poetry, except one maybe -- or even just the smell of poetry > in its pores. Or maybe it's just a cup which, because it has been > used to carry poetry, someone is still willing to carry. There is > meaning, maybe not centrally located. In the short essays, it's > clear how compromised the book is, yet it speaks. Not fluently, but > fluently. The dialogue between poetry and government in this book is > a scrap of reality, a broken but not worthless thing. Why should the > book not be taken seriously, "certainly not by poets"? It is a > product of the economies we work in, and raises many useful questions > about poetry for me, even at the level of nostalgia for a genre. I > don't have the book in front of me as I write, but I've read it. I > can return to the questions it raised for me later. > Mairead > > =20 >>>> weishaus@PDX.EDU 08/22/07 12:51 PM >>> >>>> =20 > David: > > I don't find this review strange, but right to the point. You have to > be living in an alternative universe to think that this book > represents the real feelings of the prisoners. Not only was it > censored, but the original language wasn't allowed to be published, on > the pretense that it contains secret messages! What could the secret > message possibly be from someone in prison for so many years? One > wonders if this is paranoia, playacting, or just plain stupidity. > In any case, I think the review is basically sound, and that this book > should not be taken seriously, certainly not by poets! If I have any > problems with the review, it's with the author's contention that a > poem can't reveal the reality of one's life. I think the opposite is > true, only not in the case of this book. > > Best, > Joel Weishaus > > > Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 07:59:18 -0700 > From: David Chirot > Subject: Poems From Guant=3D?ISO-8859-1?Q?=3DE1namo:?=3D The Detainees = S > peak - Books - Review - New York Times > > this is a rather strange review-- > > = http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/19/books/review/Chiasson-t.html?_r=3D1&ref= =3Dbooks&oref=3Dslogin > --- > =20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 22:47:52 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: Poems from Guant=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E1namo?= In-Reply-To: <54AA9B41BC35F34EAD02E660901D8A5A0EE69D0E@TLRUSMNEAGMBX10.ERF.THOMSON.COM> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline You are off on your tangent which is not simplistic. There are other definitions of poetry. I am also repeating myself, and I apologize to those who did follow me before. Here is a page of quotations gathered from mails sent to the New Poetry Lis= t on the Poets' Corner: http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D287 On 8/23/07, Tom W. Lewis wrote: > fyi (I've probably mentioned this here before): > > "poet, poem, poetry" derive from the Greek poiein, "to make", also "to cause, effect, create, render, grow, produce, invent..." > > Greek pots were often signed by their makers "X me epoien" -- "X made me" > > I bring this etymology forward to our time by seeing poetic work as a mad= e thing, a crafted object -- while you can become a master craftsperson through diligent study of the way objects like this are made, someone else can just as easily pick up a lump of clay and mold their own pot with the same tools (their hands) as the master -- the result will be different from the master's, but (theoretically) it will still carry water. > > based on this line of reasoning, the act of writing a poem makes the author a poet. > > does this fit with what Maria is saying in her comment, or am I off on my own simplistic tangent? > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] O= n Behalf Of Maria Damon > Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 8:32 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Poems from Guant=E1namo > > i am uncomfortable with the aesthetic hierarchy espoused here, reified > in the word "talent." it is true that such a thing does and does not > exist, but it is certainly not the only, or the most salient, criterion > by which we determine whether something has worth. to reify the person > of the "poet," is , to my mind, even more dangerous. talk about > policing! i do agree, though, that discussions around the poetry is at > least as important as the poetry itself, but i might argue this about > any "poem." > > Joel Weishaus wrote: > > Mairead; > > > > If you mean the arguments around the book should be taken seriously, I > > agree. If you mean the poetry should be taken seriously, I disagree. > > Firstly, most of these poems, as I understand the situation, were not > > written by poets. Thus, for a poet to take them seriously is like a > > cosmologist taking the Book of Genesis seriously. Further, even those that > > may have been written by persons of talent, they are not their poems, but > > fabrications made up by the military. The real poems and stories we wil= l get > > someday when these people are free to write them and publish them without > > being censored by the very people who tortured them. You are right that it > > does raise interesting questions, but political ones, not poetic ones. > > > > -Joel > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > From: Mairead Byrne > > Date: Aug 22, 2007 9:49 PM > > Subject: Re: Poems from Guant=E1namo > > To: POETICS@listserv.buffalo.edu > > > > > > I find the claim that this book shouldn't be taken seriously, > > "certainly not by poets," to be extraordinary. The extent to which > > this book is embroiled in economic realities, both publishing and > > political, offers a very strong invitation to this poet, at least, to > > take it seriously. Joel, why do you say the book shouldn't be taken > > seriously, "certainly not by poets"? Its publication by the > > University of Iowa Press, in today's America, and the stated history > > of its publication path make it very interesting to think and talk > > about, in my view; as does the tension between the stated and very > > visible challenges to its meaning, and all the less visible and > > apprehensible challenges. It's like a cup which has lost every single > > drop of poetry, except one maybe -- or even just the smell of poetry > > in its pores. Or maybe it's just a cup which, because it has been > > used to carry poetry, someone is still willing to carry. There is > > meaning, maybe not centrally located. In the short essays, it's > > clear how compromised the book is, yet it speaks. Not fluently, but > > fluently. The dialogue between poetry and government in this book is > > a scrap of reality, a broken but not worthless thing. Why should the > > book not be taken seriously, "certainly not by poets"? It is a > > product of the economies we work in, and raises many useful questions > > about poetry for me, even at the level of nostalgia for a genre. I > > don't have the book in front of me as I write, but I've read it. I > > can return to the questions it raised for me later. > > Mairead > > > > > >>>> weishaus@PDX.EDU 08/22/07 12:51 PM >>> > >>>> > > David: > > > > I don't find this review strange, but right to the point. You have to > > be living in an alternative universe to think that this book > > represents the real feelings of the prisoners. Not only was it > > censored, but the original language wasn't allowed to be published, on > > the pretense that it contains secret messages! What could the secret > > message possibly be from someone in prison for so many years? One > > wonders if this is paranoia, playacting, or just plain stupidity. > > In any case, I think the review is basically sound, and that this book > > should not be taken seriously, certainly not by poets! If I have any > > problems with the review, it's with the author's contention that a > > poem can't reveal the reality of one's life. I think the opposite is > > true, only not in the case of this book. > > > > Best, > > Joel Weishaus > > > > > > Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 07:59:18 -0700 > > From: David Chirot > > Subject: Poems From Guant=3D?ISO-8859-1?Q?=3DE1namo:?=3D The Detainees = S > > peak - Books - Review - New York Times > > > > this is a rather strange review-- > > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/19/books/review/Chiasson-t.html?_r=3D1&ref= =3Dbooks&oref=3Dslogin > > --- > > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 21:38:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: pr=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E9cis?= for Rhode Island Notebook MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit __________________________________ http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com ---------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 19:44:42 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: Disarming the teaching of history in Israel and Palestine In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Dear David, > does this organization still exist? Yes, PRIME is still in existence. The next phase of the "Learning Each Other's Historical Narrative" project is to build a Web site for the Palestinian and Israeli High school teachers who teach http://vispo.com/PRIME/leohn1.pdf . I'm hoping to be able to help them with the site. Of course it will be in Arabic and Hebrew, mainly. But I can help with design and perhaps programming, if appropriate. > trying to learn more of it online, the last dated entries for it i can > find are from October 2005 Yes, that's right. The http://vispo.com/PRIME site is not, of course, their central concern. As you note in your post, things are pretty tough for this sort of initiative. Peace-building in the Middle East. Hardest job in the world? Pretty slow going, I think. As you know, David, I forwarded your post to Dan and Sami, hoping one of them might reply. But English is not their first language, so I think it's tough for them to respond without a translator for their response. Thanks for your great post, as always, though, David, and sorry I can't address your post in more detail. I'm just their HTML guy for their site. It's beyond me to try to address some of the issues you raise. ja > i noted on the information at your site that of phases listed as > having been completed, the last one seems to be 2004. > > The funding for the first three years is listed as from the US State > Department and Ford Foundation. > > Most of what is at the site seems to be about proposals, rather than > actual current or recent events. Is there any way to find out what the > current status is? > > East Jerusalem, mentioned in one of the articles as being the source > for a student quote, is now almost impossible for Palestinians from > the outside to enter. The new "Separation" road on which Palestians > are allowed to travel on the other side of a Wall --painted to > simulate mosaics--has only three exits in toto, none for East > Jerusalem. > (The road was featured in a front page story on the NY Times as i > recall 11 august 2007.) > > The Wall, Security Fences, "Settlers Only" roads, continual > checkpoints and the annual growth rate in numbers of the illegal > settler population now exceeding that of Israel itself, have all put > so many obstacles in the way of Palestinians attending schools, tech > schools and Universities that the educational system for Palestinians, > along with everything else, is in ruins. (500, 000 in the West Bank > currently receive 67% of the amount of water per person per year > considered the minimum for human survival. 80% of Gaza is on the > verge of starvation. Demolitions, arrests, beatings, deaths from IDF > and settlers occur on a daily basis. Amnesty International has issued > Ethnic Cleansing calls for a stop a few days ago in the Jordan Valley. > The Knesset is debating a law prohibiting Israeli Abba citizens from > purchasing their own land from the National Public Lands in Israel. ) > Just to get to a still existing school is becoming prohibitively > difficult, as well as more and more dangerous. (Amnesty International > reported that of 124 Palestinian children killed last year, 80 were > due to sniper fire from the IDF or settlers. The children's fatal > wounds were in the area of the upper back and neck at base of the > skull. They had been shot from behind, execution style.) > A great number of schools throughout the Occupied Territories have > also been bulldozed, or appropriated by the IDF for surveillance > posts, or given to settlers to use for other purposes. > > Education to bring understanding and a desire for peace is being > destroyed, while the seeds of hate, despair, death, are being sown. > > Inside the Walled off out door prisons, without water, starving, shot > at, bombed, homes, hospitals, schools demolished, electricity long > gone, continually threatened and bullied, arrested, disappeared, if > the prisoners turn against themselves, all the better for the warders. > > Meanwhile, the Occupiers, the only nuclear power in the Mideast, now > the world's 4th largest exporter of weapons and security systems, > technologies, equipment will be receiving over 3 billion dollars a > year more in US military aid starting shortly. > > > On 8/16/07, Jim Andrews wrote: > > As some of you may recall, vispo.com hosts the Web site of > PRIME, the Peace > > Research Institute in the Middle East. PRIME is mainly run by > Dan Bar-On, an > > Israeli scholar, and Sammi Adwan, a Palestinian scholar. > > > > There are two new documents on the Web site you may find of interest. > > > > LEARNING EACH OTHER'S HISTORICAL NARRATIVE > > http://vispo.com/PRIME/leohn1.pdf > > This is a preliminary translation into English of a document > developed by > > Israeli and Palestinian High school teachers that presents to > grade 9 and 10 > > students in Israel and Palestine something of the historical > narrative of > > the 'other side'. This project is an attempt to "disarm the teaching of > > history". There are articles about this project at > > http://vispo.com/PRIME/patience.htm (a copy of a USA Today > article) and at > > http://vispo.com/PRIME/herzog.htm (a copy of an article from > the Globe and > > Mail). This PRIME project was awarded the inaugual Goldberg IIE > prize for > > peace-building in the middle east (see > > http://vispo.com/PRIME/goldbergprize.htm ). > > > > THE PRIME SHARED HISTORY PROJECT > > Peace-Building Project Under Fire > > http://vispo.com/PRIME/iram192.pdf > > This is an article by Dan Bar-On and Sami Adwan concerning the > background > > and some of the research concerning the 'Learning Each Other's > Historical > > Narrative' project. > > > > ja > > http://vispo.com > > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 23:23:00 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alexander Jorgensen Subject: The internet is "dead and boring," in an interview with Portfolio.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I while back, I offered some information related to an online debate related to the usefulness of the internet with regards to art. Most of the replies, and I chose to sit back on the discussion, seemed quite defensive (perhaps not surprisingly) and dismissive. Anyway, here's another to ponder: http://www.portfolio.com/views/columns/the-world-according-to/2007/08/23/Mark-Cuban Mark Cuban Aug 23 2007 The maverick investor discusses the internet, trading, high-definition TV, and Rupert Murdoch. Join the Conversation Start the Conversation Add a Comment document.getElementById('marginColumn').className = 'marginColumnDisplayed' Mark Cuban Photograph by: Getty Images Much like Friedrich Nietzsche, who scandalized 19th-century Europe by declaring that "God is dead," Mark Cuban has some bad news for all the true believers who are investing billions in the Web. The internet is "dead and boring," Cuban says in an interview with Portfolio.com. "We have reached the point of diminishing returns with today's internet. The speed of broadband to your home won't increase much more in the next five years than it has in the last five years. That is not enough to work as a platform for new levels of applications that will require much, much higher levels of bandwidth." Of course, the 49-year-old Cuban made his $2.3 billion fortune as an internet entrepreneur. In 1999, he and business partner Todd Wagner sold their Web TV company, Broadcast.com, to Yahoo for $5.7 billion in Yahoo stock, then cashed out before the tech market imploded -- leaving Cuban with plenty of money to buy a basketball team, the Dallas Mavericks; launch a high-definition television network, HDNet; hire Dan Rather; and start a vertically integrated entertainment company, 2929 Entertainment, that makes and distributes movies and owns a chain of theaters. He apparently still has enough left over to bid on the Chicago Cubs, recently put on the block by the Tribune Co., though he's uncharacteristically mum about his plans. "If I told you I would have to kill you," says Cuban, who last month officially joined the list of prospective buyers by applying to Major League Baseball to examine the team's books. "I'm sworn to secrecy." Answering questions by email from the Cayman Islands, where he was vacationing with his family and recovering from hip-replacement surgery, Cuban also shared his views on Rupert Murdoch's acquisition of the Wall Street Journal, Yahoo versus Google, day-trading, his personal investment strategy, and why he won't pull the plug on his much-criticized business journalism operation, Sharesleuth.com, in which he shorts companies that the site plans to trash-hoping to turn a tidy profit on his pre-publication insider knowledge. Lloyd Grove: As recently as May 2007, you told the House Subcommittee on Telecommunications and the Internet that government policy could encourage internet providers to make the necessary investment in fiber optics to significantly increase bandwidth to home users, in line with industrialized nations such as Japan, Germany, and South Korea, and that the economic benefits would eventually outweigh the costs. But last month, you declared: “The internet is dead. It’s over.” You said it’s “for old people” and it’s a “stagnant consumer platform.” Did you change your mind between May and July? Who or what killed the internet? And aren’t you biting the hand that fed you? Mark Cuban: The internet of today versus what I suggested to the committee would happen if internet speeds to the home increased to 1 gigabyte per second, is like comparing the plane Orville and Wilbur Wright built in 1903 to a brand-new Boeing. We have reached a point of diminishing returns with today’s internet. The speed of broadband to your home won’t increase much more in the next five years than it has in the last five years. That is not enough to work as a platform for new levels of applications that will require much, much higher levels of bandwidth. Broadband to the home isn’t fast enough for downloads of movies at DVD quality to be ubiquitous. That means it’s no longer a platform for technological innovation. Think of it this way. Way back when, electricity changed the world. It was the platform for everything electronic that we do today. Do you get excited about electricity or is it just a utility? Maybe old people who remember the advent of electricity still get excited about it. No one else does. The internet is in the same position today. It’s no longer an exciting platform for societal and business change. It’s a utility. It’s something that is exciting to people who remember the old days of the internet. The only way to change that is to upgrade the platform for bandwidth transport across the country to a minimum of 1 gigabyte per second throughout to every home. At that point kids will come up with new and unique applications that we can’t imagine today. That’s when it becomes exciting. Until then, it’s dead and boring. L.G.: What percentage of U.S. households have access to HDNet and HDNet Movies, and what will that number be a year from now, and when will there be 100 percent penetration? What percentage of households have HDTVs? Other than Time Warner, what other major cable providers carry your channels? M.C.: Since we are on DirecTV and Dish Network, pretty much 100 percent have access to us. On the cable side, we are on Time Warner, Verizon, AT&T, Charter, Mediacom, Insight, and about 30 others in the U.S. as well as Canada; there is a full list at www.hd.net, or better yet, just call your cable, telco, or sat provider and just order us. It’s easy. L.G.: Why the resistance from Comcast and Cablevision? How many viewers are actually watching HDNet programming? Where do you see HDNet in five years? And five years from now, will Dan Rather still have his own show on HDNet? M.C.: I don’t have exact viewership numbers; no one does. But where we are rated in and around L.A., we often, if not usually, have a bigger share of the HD viewing audience than the other networks: ESPN, Discovery, TNT, Universal, MTV, HBO, Showtime, Cinemax, and sometimes even more than the broadcast networks on weekends. We plan on continuing to have great programming that people love to watch and growing our subscription base. We are the only individually owned network available today. I think that puts us in a unique position. Sure, it’s tough competing against huge conglomerates like G.E. and Comcast-owned programming for carriage. No question they have the leverage and use it. But our viewers love us and we think that still counts for something, and fortunately we have great partners like DirecTV, Dish, Time Warner, Charter, Verizon, etc., that have happy HDNet subscribers because of our partnership. And yes, we hope Dan Rather continues with Dan Rather Reports for another 100 years. L.G.: How much of your time do you spend on—and how big an investment have you made in—2929 Entertainment? Why movies? Why low-budget art-house movies? Are you in it for fun—and hanging out with George Clooney—or profit? M.C.: Most of my time is spent on HDNet and the original movies that HDNet makes or buys for our unique Sneak Preview program (where we release movies to our HDNet subscribers and our partners up to two weeks before they are in theaters). We have a vertically integrated entertainment company. We make movies; we show them in Landmark theaters; we show them on HDNet; we release them through our own DVD company, Magnolia Home Entertainment, and distribute them through Magnolia Pictures. Being vertically integrated gives us the unique opportunity to distribute our movies how and where we want to. And low-budget? You need to do some homework. Have you seen Akeelah and the Bee, We Own the Night (which comes out October 12), Good Night, and Good Luck. We don’t make dumb-ass budget movies like some people. We make great movies at the budgets that give us the opportunity to make money. L.G.: Has buying a distribution company and a chain of 57 theaters worked out well thus far? M.C.: Yep. They are making money, and they give us the unique opportunity to control our product. No other studio can do a nationwide sneak preview of their movies like we can because no other studio owns a national theater chain. No network other than HDNet can offer Ultra V.O.D. [video on demand], where we allow our V.O.D. partners to sell movies two weeks before they are in theaters. Only HDNet can offer a sneak preview of a movie the Wednesday before it’s released in theaters. The ability to offer consumers what they want is a great opportunity for us. If any other studio tried it, the other theater owners would boycott the studio in a heartbeat. L.G.: And have you found customers willing to pay $30 (or more?) to see new releases on their HDTVs instead of $10 in see them in theaters? M.C.: Yes. We give them a choice. If you have to hire a babysitter, pay for parking and then the movie, the $19.95 we now charge is cheap. If you want to go on a date and get out of the house away from the kids, then seeing a movie at a Landmark Theatre is a great date experience for grownups. L.G.: In 2002, you criticized Yahoo for having a bureaucratic, “consensus-first, action-second” culture that stymied the company’s success with Web TV shortly after you and Todd Wagner sold Broadcast.com to Yahoo for $5.7 billion. But you seemed optimistic about the company’s potential with a change in management. What’s your assessment of Yahoo’s performance and strategic direction in the five years since then? What were Terry Semel’s successes and failures? And what do you think Yahoo’s future holds? M.C.: I have no idea. Jerry Yang is a smart guy, so if anyone can do well, he can. I think Yahoo’s real problem is that they are being compared to Google. Used to be that companies struggled in comparison to Yahoo; now Google is the top of the heap. At some point it will be someone else. L.G.: Was Rupert Murdoch smart to spend $5 billion on Dow Jones and the Wall Street Journal? Why or why not? How, for better or worse, will the Journal be transformed? If you were Murdoch, how would you integrate this acquisition into News Corp.’s journalistic enterprises, including the soon-to-launched Fox Business Channel, and what do you think of Murdoch’s stated plans to invest $200 million in the Journal’s online operations? M.C.: He got a great bargain. The W.S.J., brand can be applied to all of his business operations. The Fox Business Channel can be the Wall Street Journal Channel and gain immediate credibility. As far as how to integrate them, I have no idea, and Rupert doesn’t need my advice. There are things I know and things I don’t know. I don’t know the internals of Fox, so there is no reason to speculate. L.G.: How much time do you spend day-trading? M.C.: None, zero. I think only idiots day-trade. Over the last 10 years the business of trading stocks has been very specialized. There is more professional brainpower and money applied to picking stocks than ever before. Anyone who thinks they can beat the market day-trading over the long term is just waiting for their luck to run out. L.G.: What percentage of your net worth do you have in the markets, versus C.D.’s and other risk-averse investments, and how do you decide where to put your money? What stocks do you like, dislike? M.C.: I don’t know the percentages. I stay pretty conservative and try to stick to things that pay me rather than things I just pray go up because someone else decided to buy some shares. I have some stock investments that I have made over the years but don’t look at them very often and haven’t traded them much if at all over the past few years. L.G.: And most important, how have you done? M.C.: I do fine. I bought things that paid dividends or interest, and they go up over time. I will take positions in strategic shorts, meaning I don’t go through and read all the S.E.C. filings. I look for companies that are out-and-out liars or are in a business that I don’t think has a future. (And no, I’m not going to name names. Companies that are shorted tend to put more effort into being litigious rather than spending time trying to actually run a profitable business.) L.G.: Is the subprime-mortgage scare likely to have lasting impact on the Dow? Do you believe Bernanke and the Fed have responded reasonably? Where do you think the markets are headed in the next few months? How should the average investor respond? Should any of this be of concern to a billionaire in the media, entertainment, or sports biz? M.C.: I have no idea, and neither does anyone else. All I can say is to remember the months of July and August and how you felt every time you saw what the market was doing. Imprint the volatility and angst that most in the market felt in your brain. Then when one of these funds tries to come along and explain to you how wonderful buy-and-hold is and how it always works, think about these couple months. Then make a decision whether the upset stomach from watching the markets go up and down, plus the risk of losing some, or possibly all, your money, is worth the few percentage points you might make over the 5 percent or more a C.D. is paying. L.G.: In July 2006, you launched Sharesleuth.com with veteran business journalist Christopher Carey, with the stated goal of uncovering waste, fraud, and abuse in publicly traded companies. But business journalists quickly condemned you for your allegedly unethical plan to pay for the site with profits from shorting targeted companies in advance of publication. So far, Sharesleuth.com has investigated two public companies, Xethanol and UTEK, and their stock prices tumbled immediately after publication. This June, Sharesleuth.com attacked a private company, Orthopedic Development. A couple of weeks ago, on the occasion of Sharesleuth.com’s first anniversary, business blogger Gary Weiss declared your venture “a flop in every way imaginable.” Anything you’d do differently with the benefit of hindsight? Has the site lived up to your expectations? You said you made around $90,000 by shorting Xethanol but were “underwater” on your UTEK trades. In the end, have you made or lost money, and beyond that, was your business model a P.R. mistake? Did you ever hear from the S.E.C. concerning your stock-shorting plan? Do you intend to continue with Sharesleuth.com, or will you pull the plug? M.C.: Gary Weiss is a nice guy, and I actually like checking out and reading his blog. We agree on more than we disagree on, but Gary’s commenting on Sharesleuth is nothing more than trying to get his name in the paper or a magazine somewhere. Sharesleuth is doing everything it has set out to do. It is there to find companies that are not what they say they are. It is an approach that is not based on having to publish to a schedule or within a number of words. We can spend a year researching a company and write or not write, at our discretion. That freedom alone makes it a success. And as far as my profits on the site, I’ve more than covered my costs with trade ideas brought to me by Chris. Our emphasis is not on the companies that will make me the most money; it’s on covering the companies that aren’t who they say they are. Writing the truth about XNL and UTK was great. Making money made it a little nicer. L.G.: You have said that you read four to five hours a day to keep up. Specifically what publications and websites do you read and visit regularly, and where else do you get your business information? M.C.: Other than Portfolio? I can’t even begin to list them all. Technology, entertainment, sports, general business . . . Some that I read are Make; PC Magazine; CPU magazine; a Macintosh journal, I think; Adweek; Advertising Age; Film Journal [International]; the Producers Guild [newsletter]; HighDef; BusinessWeek; the Wall Street Journal; the New York Times; Good; Billboard; the Economist; Entertainment Weekly; TV Week; Multichannel News; Broadcasting & Cable; CableWorld; Variety; the Hollywood Reporter; MMA Worldwide; Tapout; Kagan reports; [Street & Smith’s] Sports Business Journal; Forbes; and Fortune—and that’s off the top of my head. Then I probably have RSS feeds from another 100 websites. L.G.: What gets you out of bed in the morning, and what makes you enthused? M.C.: All of it. I love challenges. I love challenging conventional wisdom. I love the satisfaction of being right and the motivation of being wrong. L.G.: Aside from bad officiating against the Mavs, what makes you mad? M.C.: I’m not a big fan of politicians and politics or bureaucrats in general, but generally, the only time I raise my voice is at a Mavs game. People always expect me to be volatile or outrageous, but I save it all for Mavs games or when I’m playing basketball. That’s when I let it all come out. It used to be during rugby games, when I played, but when I couldn’t play any longer, the Mavs became my outlet. What cracks up my friends and family is that they knew that I was the same way before I bought the team. I would be just as crazy, if not more so back then. There just weren’t any cameras pointed at me back then. L.G.: What makes you scared? What do you lose sleep over? M.C.: My family’s health. L.G.: What’s going on with the Chicago Cubs? The Tribune Co.has put the Cubs on the block as part of its agreement with Trib buyer Sam Zell, and last month you put yourself in the running to buy the team by submitting an application to Major League Baseball to examine the books. Why would you want to buy the Cubs? The conventional wisdom is that the bidding will start at $600 million and may go as high as $1 billion. Are you seriously moving ahead? Can you afford it? And what, if anything, are you doing to convince Bud Selig and the M.L.B. establishment that, as an owner, you wouldn’t make their lives hell on earth? M.C.: If I told you, I would have to kill you. I’m sworn to secrecy. L.G.: Since you bought the Dallas Mavericks in 2000 with $280 million of your Yahoo cash, you’ve turned the team from a ragtag bunch of losers into one of America’s more exciting sports franchises—and turned yourself into a brand-name celebrity. You’ve spent untold millions on players and facilities, and you’ve demonstrated brilliant showmanship and won over the fans. But are you making money? In general, can one make big bucks by owning a professional sports team—or is it more a vanity play for rich guys? M.C.: I can make as much money as I want to from the Mavs. There is a tradeoff, however, between losing and maximizing tradeoffs. As I have said, my emotional release is with the Mavs, so winning is more important to me than making money. That said, I should make a few shekels this year. L.G.: Given your storied antagonism for the refs of the N.B.A. and your sometimes fractious relationship with Commissioner David Stern—who has fined you approximately $1.5 million for voicing expletive-laced opinions on and off the court—the recent gambling scandal involving referee Tim Donaghy might have been a golden opportunity for you to say “I told you so.” Instead, as soon as the scandal broke, you expressed your “complete confidence” in Stern to “proactively put in place people, processes, and transparency that will forever silence those who will question the N.B.A.’s integrity,” and you added that “the N.B.A. and our officiating will be all the stronger for it.” Hey, Mark, what gives? Are you a changed man? M.C.: Nope. I’ve said and done what I have said and done. There is no reason to rehash it. My goal has always been to make the league better, better as a business and better as a product for the fans. It makes no sense to look back. I think it’s smarter to take the hand you are dealt and make the most of it. L.G.: On your blog, you seemed to suggest that Barry Bonds’ use of steroids shouldn’t detract from his accomplishment of breaking Hank Aaron’s non-steroid-enhanced home run record. “In 25 years, any controversy associated with Barry’s quest for the record will be long forgotten,” you wrote. What are you saying here? That in order to achieve our goals in this competitive world, we are justified in exploiting any advantage at our disposal, even if it’s against the rules? Where does one draw the line? M.C.: I’m saying that the media tries to make a big issue out of things most fans couldn’t care less about. Back when Babe Ruth set the mark, there were allegations of every sort to explain why he was able to do things no other player was. When my kids or grandkids look back on Barry Bonds, they will know him as the home run champ. They won’t invest the energy to try to find out what the context of the record was any more than any of us explore the context of when Ruth broke the record. In reference to exploiting any means possible, that is an individual’s choice. Each person lives with the decisions they make. The only certainty is that no one really cares about how and why others, whether it’s Barry Bonds, Babe Ruth, or you‑name‑it, make the decisions they make, because they are nothing more or less than entertainers to us. Just because the media depends on glorifying it for ratings and sales, doesn’t make it anything more than it really is. All you have to do is ask when a scandal had a negative impact on a sport or entertainment business. It certainly hasn’t been during the digital era of ultracompetitive media. L.G.: How have you been spending your time in the Caymans? How’s the new hip? M.C.: Hip is great. I’m working out every day. Two months in, and the only thing I can’t do is run, dunk, or cut with the ball like Barry Sanders :). I only wish I would have done it sooner. -- Marcus Aurelius: "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 06:10:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Grace Paley interview---today on democracynow.rg MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Grace Paley interview with Amy Goodwin on democracynow.org today--check yr local times Paley spoke about Poets Against the War among other things, and importance of organizing, taking group action-- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 03:40:42 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabrielle Welford Subject: Gate A4 in Albuquerque Airport and the Mamool Cookies: (fwd) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 01:06:39 -0700 (PDT) From: patricia blair How easily we could choose a world like this. WHy don't we? Peace to you, Pat Friends, This may just make your day. Peace, Margaret ---------- Wandering Around an Albuquerque Airport Terminal by Naomi Shihab Nye After learning my flight was detained 4 hours, I heard the announcement: If anyone in the vicinity of gate 4-A understands any Arabic, please come to the gate immediately. Well -- one pauses these days. Gate 4-A was my own gate. I went there. An older woman in full traditional Palestinian dress, just like my grandma wore, was crumpled to the floor, wailing loudly. Help, said the flight service person. Talk to her. What is her problem? We told her the flight was going to be four hours late and she did this. I put my arm around her and spoke to her haltingly. Shu dow-a,shu-biduck habibti, stani stani schway, min fadlick, sho bit se-wee? The minute she heard my words she knew -- however poorly used -- she stopped crying. She thought our flight had been cancelled entirely. She needed to be in El Paso for some major medical treatment the following day. I said no, no, we're fine, you'll get there, just late, who is picking you up? Let's call him and tell him. We called her son and I spoke with him in English. I told him I would stay with his mother till we got on the plane and would ride next to her. She talked to him. Then we called her other sons just for the fun of it. Then we called my dad and he and she spoke for a while in Arabic and found out of course they had ten shared friends. Then I thought just for the heck of it why not call some Palestinian poets I know and let them chat with her. This all took up about 2 hours. She was laughing a lot by then. Telling about her life. Answering questions. She had pulled a sack of homemade mamool cookies -- little powdered sugar crumbly mounds stuffed with dates and nuts -- out of her bag and was offering them to all the women at the gate. To my amazement, not a single woman declined one. It was like a sacrament. The traveler from Argentina, the traveler from California, the lovely woman from Laredo -- we were all covered with the same powdered sugar. And smiling. There are no better cookies. And then the airline broke out the free beverages from huge coolers -- non-alcoholic -- and the two little girls for our flight, one African-American, one Mexican-American -- ran around serving us all apple juice and lemonade and they were covered with powdered sugar, too. And I noticed my new best friend -- by now we were holding hands -- had a potted plant poking out of her bag, some medicinal thing, with green furry leaves. Such an old country traveling tradition. Always carry a plant. Always stay rooted to somewhere. And I looked around that gate of late and weary ones and thought, this is the world I want to live in. The shared world. Not a single person in this gate -- once the crying of confusion stopped -- has seemed apprehensive about any other person. They took the cookies. I wanted to hug all those other women, too. This can still happen, anywhere. Not everything is lost. Naomi Shihab Nye is an American poet of Palestinian background. The Rev. Mike Kinman Executive Director, Episcopalians for Global Reconciliation MKinman@gmail.com + 314.348.6453 + www.e4gr.org + http://revmikek.blogspot.com "The alleviation of material suffering in the world and the spiritual renewal of the church go hand in hand." -The Rev. Dr. Sabina Alkire = ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 09:48:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: creative writing praxis In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thanks for your thoughtful comments. A few students do seem to benefit--i.e., write more readily--from using exers., & give them as many as they like--but most don't. It's a matter of sensibility, or once in a while of confidence--classical vs. free jazz, maybe. One can give them optional exers. On 8/16/07 4:00 PM, "J.P. Craig" wrote: > Indeed that is the case. (That's the end of my reply to Ruth. The > rest is addressed more generally.) > > Stand back while I swat the flies off this poor dead horse. > > This started with someone talking about Iowa in Hawai'i. That is: > someone asked for a degree, a certification, and they got exams. > Surprise. ACT and NCS are both based in Iowa City, really close to > the Iowa Writer's Workshop. Some folks work in both places. (If > you're wondering why I bring this up, I think you're on the right > track. If you see my point, you're also on the right track.) > > The question remains, and I mean this sincerely: can we consider such > reminders and provocations pedagogical, as proper in a classroom? I > do. I think such wholistic approaches, linking creation and critique > (the left hand of creation) with daily life is one of the best ways > to proceed individually. This may be quite different from the best > way to proceed institutionally. It is easy to dismiss advice like > "write at the same time every day," but research (which means someone > with a license to make more licenses says so AND means that some > someones have found it to be so) suggests that this really works. > > I think taking seriously lists like Mayer's is to take our own egos, > both personal and professional, a little less seriously and also to > take risks, which is to take ourselves very seriously in deed. In a > way I see participants in this thread recapping the argument between > Duncan and Levertov over the value of his decision to attempt ballad > forms, as he (perhaps condescendingly) said to Levertov to disrupt > the sure course of his work. There's the secure course. And there's > the productive course, which may be sure. Then there's the course > that comes with a number, which may be sure, productive, or some combo. > > What on earth is the value of criteria? They establish their own > values. Evaluation becomes a value. The question is where that is > located: in the institution, in the writer, reader, Rasula's wreader? > I think Hejinian is really useful when she reminds us that a poem is > an investment of energy and that both poet and reader gamble on the > value of the outcome. > > These are old, old arguments, known to even junior faculty. I prefer > to stick with the verb end of it. Whatever gets material on the page > or screen whatever, reading is generative. That's not the classroom, > though I earn my bread there. But the classroom can make room for, if > not contain, the idea that reading and writing is a practice > measurable only on an ever-shifting scale. > > In this way I ask if we can consider works like A Test of Poetry that > is at best an odd manual of poetry production to be a legitimate > manual of poetry production? > > Okay so that's one response to the challenge of poetry pedagogy. > Here's another: There are any number of schools, and we can't escape > that. But must we begin by placing ourselves in this or that school > self-consciously or can we attempt in some way to derange our > experience toward the experience of our materials. Are our students > materials in some sense? Should we allow our words to be as free as > we'd have our students be? Or: here we are in our school; let us work. > > A third response, with a post-test: maybe we should certify people as > suitable teachers of poetry ONLY after their students have > demonstrated something we recognize as success. For example, might we > now and only now give Duncan a certification to teach, based on > Palmer, Mackey, and some others? Or maybe we can give H.D. one for > her work in producing a Howe? Or do we not offer certifications based > on distance learning? ((Can we offer an certificate to an existent > non-entity, to, for example, a pidgin?) safely buried) > > An Exam. > > Question One. Why isn't Bromige's "I Read This Someplace" different > from Pound's first canto? > > Question Two. Why should YOU give a damn? > > Question Three. We are all liars. Our pants burn for love of it. > > ((To be less snotty, here's the Bromige: > > I Read This Someplace > > The lyre bird > amid the eucalyptus > listening for every sound he hears > to trip him into sound he makes. > He has no call or song > his own. He imitates. Each time > he utters something chances are > it is his soul that speaks. > > On Aug 16, 2007, at 11:00 AM, Ruth Lepson wrote: > >> Mayer's aren;t exers. in the usual sense but ways to shake people >> out of >> slumber & therefore terrific. Things like Write when you don;t feel >> like it, >> Write before falling asleep, Write at the same time every day. >> >> >> On 8/15/07 9:26 AM, "J.P. Craig" wrote: >> >>> I don't know if this fits, but there's the Palgrave Poetry and >>> Pedagogy that came out recently. I've found it interesting. I'm going >>> to be presenting with some friends from Iowa at the Midwest Writing >>> Center Association conference this fall on using writing center >>> techniques to teach creative writing. Specifically, we're trying to >>> find and discuss alternative to the "workshop" model that we found >>> lacking because, in my case, it was far too limiting on students' >>> output, too product-oriented and normative. >>> >>> I'd really be interested in the lists you've generated so far, both >>> of the helpful and unhelpful materials. >>> >>> Are these MA comps exams? Or is it some sort of certification exam >>> aborning (as if an MA comps exam isn't, I suppose). >>> >>> I'm really interested in this primarily because I like teaching >>> writing, and though I tend to be paid for teaching comp or ESL, I >>> like encouraging and assisting young creative writers too. I'm also >>> interested because my M.F.A. experience was unhelpful to my writing. >>> I found the PhD in literature to be much more helpful to my writing, >>> but then again I'm a sort of bookish person and not particularly >>> successful as a professional poet. >>> >>> I wonder if things like Bernadette Mayer's experiment or other lists >>> of procedures could be considered as pedagogical theory for poets? >>> Are books like Koch's Wishes Lies and Dreams, though aimed at >>> children, be considered useful pedagogical theory for us (maybe too >>> East Coast for your needs?). I guess this move may be a tired one, >>> but it's still useful: I'm asking if this is an opportunity to >>> broaden what we might consider a poetry pedagogy text. Does it >>> overlap literature; can we include A Test of Poetry, How to Write, >>> and so on? >>> >>> On Aug 14, 2007, at 12:27 AM, Susan Webster Schultz wrote: >>> >>>> Increasingly, MA students at UH are asking to take exams in >>>> Creative Writing Pedagogy, and increasingly >>>> I'm being asked to be an examiner in this field. As to what that >>>> field might be, I'll perhaps know better after >>>> conducting a directed reading with 5 or so grad and undergrad >>>> students this coming semester. But my impression >>>> is that the "literature" on the subject is flimsy, east coast >>>> centered, mono-cultural, and generally speaking, pretty >>>> unhelpful. >>>> >>>> I did find a decent introduction to the field here: >>>> >>>> _The Elephants Teach: Creative Writing Since 1880_, by David G. >>>> Myers. >>>> I also like, as a tool, Hazel Smith's _The Writing Experiment_, >>>> though I confess I haven't yet used it to teach by. >>>> >>>> But my strong sense is that there needs to me more and better >>>> writing on the subject, because if the lists I'm seeing >>>> are any indication, the field is pretty anemic. >>>> >>>> aloha, Susan >>>> >>>> who is watching: >>>> >>>> http://www.goes.noaa.gov/ha2.html >>> >>> JP Craig >>> http://jpcraig.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 09:35:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: Re: Poems from Guant=?iso-8859-1?Q?=E1namo?= In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70708231347h6965c592l230114aa4b938c4f@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Anny,=20 thanks for sending that link -- not surprisingly, the work of the = Guant=E1namo prisoners/poets seems to meet most if not all of these = criteria for being "poetry" (I also noticed that none of the quotes used = the term "talent" when defining poetry)...=20 one aspect of written work (and poetry in particular) that I find = fascinating is the way it is "handled," from the time it is first = composed/created by the writer through the process of evaluation, = editing, acceptance for publication, produced in a format available to a = mass audience, and finally received by individual readers. each of these = baffles or bottlenecks affects the nature of the piece, so that the = final result(s) of the received work will be similar to but not the same = as the original written object. Robert Grenier's work gives one example of a limited process, whereas = for the Guant=E1namo poets it's anyone's guess how much vetting was = involved in getting the collection published. (I want to stress that = neither example is more or less valid, on these terms: just processed = and packaged differently.) this is something I tend to focus on in my own critical reading: how did = a given piece get to "where I'm at"? Tom -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] = On Behalf Of Anny Ballardini Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 15:48 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Poems from Guant=E1namo You are off on your tangent which is not simplistic. There are other definitions of poetry. I am also repeating myself, and I apologize to = those who did follow me before. Here is a page of quotations gathered from mails sent to the New Poetry = List on the Poets' Corner: http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D287 On 8/23/07, Tom W. Lewis wrote: > fyi (I've probably mentioned this here before): > > "poet, poem, poetry" derive from the Greek poiein, "to make", also "to cause, effect, create, render, grow, produce, invent..." > > Greek pots were often signed by their makers "X me epoien" -- "X made = me" > > I bring this etymology forward to our time by seeing poetic work as a = made thing, a crafted object -- while you can become a master craftsperson through diligent study of the way objects like this are made, someone = else can just as easily pick up a lump of clay and mold their own pot with = the same tools (their hands) as the master -- the result will be different = from the master's, but (theoretically) it will still carry water. > > based on this line of reasoning, the act of writing a poem makes the author a poet. > > does this fit with what Maria is saying in her comment, or am I off on = my own simplistic tangent? > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group = [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Maria Damon > Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 8:32 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Poems from Guant=E1namo > > i am uncomfortable with the aesthetic hierarchy espoused here, reified > in the word "talent." it is true that such a thing does and does not > exist, but it is certainly not the only, or the most salient, = criterion > by which we determine whether something has worth. to reify the = person > of the "poet," is , to my mind, even more dangerous. talk about > policing! i do agree, though, that discussions around the poetry is = at > least as important as the poetry itself, but i might argue this about > any "poem." > > Joel Weishaus wrote: > > Mairead; > > > > If you mean the arguments around the book should be taken = seriously, I > > agree. If you mean the poetry should be taken seriously, I disagree. > > Firstly, most of these poems, as I understand the situation, were = not > > written by poets. Thus, for a poet to take them seriously is like a > > cosmologist taking the Book of Genesis seriously. Further, even = those that > > may have been written by persons of talent, they are not their = poems, but > > fabrications made up by the military. The real poems and stories we = will get > > someday when these people are free to write them and publish them without > > being censored by the very people who tortured them. You are right = that it > > does raise interesting questions, but political ones, not poetic = ones. > > > > -Joel > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > From: Mairead Byrne > > Date: Aug 22, 2007 9:49 PM > > Subject: Re: Poems from Guant=E1namo > > To: POETICS@listserv.buffalo.edu > > > > > > I find the claim that this book shouldn't be taken seriously, > > "certainly not by poets," to be extraordinary. The extent to which > > this book is embroiled in economic realities, both publishing and > > political, offers a very strong invitation to this poet, at least, = to > > take it seriously. Joel, why do you say the book shouldn't be taken > > seriously, "certainly not by poets"? Its publication by the > > University of Iowa Press, in today's America, and the stated history > > of its publication path make it very interesting to think and talk > > about, in my view; as does the tension between the stated and very > > visible challenges to its meaning, and all the less visible and > > apprehensible challenges. It's like a cup which has lost every = single > > drop of poetry, except one maybe -- or even just the smell of poetry > > in its pores. Or maybe it's just a cup which, because it has been > > used to carry poetry, someone is still willing to carry. There is > > meaning, maybe not centrally located. In the short essays, it's > > clear how compromised the book is, yet it speaks. Not fluently, but > > fluently. The dialogue between poetry and government in this book = is > > a scrap of reality, a broken but not worthless thing. Why should = the > > book not be taken seriously, "certainly not by poets"? It is a > > product of the economies we work in, and raises many useful = questions > > about poetry for me, even at the level of nostalgia for a genre. I > > don't have the book in front of me as I write, but I've read it. I > > can return to the questions it raised for me later. > > Mairead > > > > > >>>> weishaus@PDX.EDU 08/22/07 12:51 PM >>> > >>>> > > David: > > > > I don't find this review strange, but right to the point. You have = to > > be living in an alternative universe to think that this book > > represents the real feelings of the prisoners. Not only was it > > censored, but the original language wasn't allowed to be published, = on > > the pretense that it contains secret messages! What could the secret > > message possibly be from someone in prison for so many years? One > > wonders if this is paranoia, playacting, or just plain stupidity. > > In any case, I think the review is basically sound, and that this = book > > should not be taken seriously, certainly not by poets! If I have any > > problems with the review, it's with the author's contention that a > > poem can't reveal the reality of one's life. I think the opposite is > > true, only not in the case of this book. > > > > Best, > > Joel Weishaus > > > > > > Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 07:59:18 -0700 > > From: David Chirot > > Subject: Poems From Guant=3D?ISO-8859-1?Q?=3DE1namo:?=3D The = Detainees S > > peak - Books - Review - New York Times > > > > this is a rather strange review-- > > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/19/books/review/Chiasson-t.html?_r=3D1&ref= =3Dbooks&oref=3Dslogin > > --- > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 07:44:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: Poems from Guant=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E1namo?= In-Reply-To: <54AA9B41BC35F34EAD02E660901D8A5A0EE69D0E@TLRUSMNEAGMBX10.ERF.THOMSON.COM> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I disagree that discussions around any poem are as important as the poem itself. The poem or poems always take precedence over any verbal (live or in print) emanation which emerges as a result of their existence and is thus obviously dependent upon it. As someone who writes poetry constantly and only occasionally criticism (usually reviews,only occasionally of poetry, available at Tribes.org), I don't see expository writing about poetry as being all that important, anyway. The discussions on these listservs ( this one and Wryting-L) are entertaining and often informative but the poems themselves are ultimately what I and I believe all of us are truly about. Regards, Tom Savage "Tom W. Lewis" wrote: fyi (I've probably mentioned this here before): "poet, poem, poetry" derive from the Greek poiein, "to make", also "to cause, effect, create, render, grow, produce, invent..." Greek pots were often signed by their makers "X me epoien" -- "X made me" I bring this etymology forward to our time by seeing poetic work as a made thing, a crafted object -- while you can become a master craftsperson through diligent study of the way objects like this are made, someone else can just as easily pick up a lump of clay and mold their own pot with the same tools (their hands) as the master -- the result will be different from the master's, but (theoretically) it will still carry water. based on this line of reasoning, the act of writing a poem makes the author a poet. does this fit with what Maria is saying in her comment, or am I off on my own simplistic tangent? -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Maria Damon Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 8:32 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Poems from Guantánamo i am uncomfortable with the aesthetic hierarchy espoused here, reified in the word "talent." it is true that such a thing does and does not exist, but it is certainly not the only, or the most salient, criterion by which we determine whether something has worth. to reify the person of the "poet," is , to my mind, even more dangerous. talk about policing! i do agree, though, that discussions around the poetry is at least as important as the poetry itself, but i might argue this about any "poem." Joel Weishaus wrote: > Mairead; > > If you mean the arguments around the book should be taken seriously, I > agree. If you mean the poetry should be taken seriously, I disagree. > Firstly, most of these poems, as I understand the situation, were not > written by poets. Thus, for a poet to take them seriously is like a > cosmologist taking the Book of Genesis seriously. Further, even those that > may have been written by persons of talent, they are not their poems, but > fabrications made up by the military. The real poems and stories we will get > someday when these people are free to write them and publish them without > being censored by the very people who tortured them. You are right that it > does raise interesting questions, but political ones, not poetic ones. > > -Joel > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Mairead Byrne > Date: Aug 22, 2007 9:49 PM > Subject: Re: Poems from Guantánamo > To: POETICS@listserv.buffalo.edu > > > I find the claim that this book shouldn't be taken seriously, > "certainly not by poets," to be extraordinary. The extent to which > this book is embroiled in economic realities, both publishing and > political, offers a very strong invitation to this poet, at least, to > take it seriously. Joel, why do you say the book shouldn't be taken > seriously, "certainly not by poets"? Its publication by the > University of Iowa Press, in today's America, and the stated history > of its publication path make it very interesting to think and talk > about, in my view; as does the tension between the stated and very > visible challenges to its meaning, and all the less visible and > apprehensible challenges. It's like a cup which has lost every single > drop of poetry, except one maybe -- or even just the smell of poetry > in its pores. Or maybe it's just a cup which, because it has been > used to carry poetry, someone is still willing to carry. There is > meaning, maybe not centrally located. In the short essays, it's > clear how compromised the book is, yet it speaks. Not fluently, but > fluently. The dialogue between poetry and government in this book is > a scrap of reality, a broken but not worthless thing. Why should the > book not be taken seriously, "certainly not by poets"? It is a > product of the economies we work in, and raises many useful questions > about poetry for me, even at the level of nostalgia for a genre. I > don't have the book in front of me as I write, but I've read it. I > can return to the questions it raised for me later. > Mairead > > >>>> weishaus@PDX.EDU 08/22/07 12:51 PM >>> >>>> > David: > > I don't find this review strange, but right to the point. You have to > be living in an alternative universe to think that this book > represents the real feelings of the prisoners. Not only was it > censored, but the original language wasn't allowed to be published, on > the pretense that it contains secret messages! What could the secret > message possibly be from someone in prison for so many years? One > wonders if this is paranoia, playacting, or just plain stupidity. > In any case, I think the review is basically sound, and that this book > should not be taken seriously, certainly not by poets! If I have any > problems with the review, it's with the author's contention that a > poem can't reveal the reality of one's life. I think the opposite is > true, only not in the case of this book. > > Best, > Joel Weishaus > > > Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 07:59:18 -0700 > From: David Chirot > Subject: Poems From Guant=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E1namo:?= The Detainees S > peak - Books - Review - New York Times > > this is a rather strange review-- > > http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/19/books/review/Chiasson-t.html?_r=1&ref=books&oref=slogin > --- > --------------------------------- Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 08:22:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jennifer Karmin Subject: JOB: University of Hartford MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit (this is a forward so please don't relpy to me. good luck!) The Department of English at the University of Hartford invites applications for a tenure-track position in creative writing at the rank of Assistant Professor, to begin August 2008. We seek a poet interested in working in an active undergraduate creative writing program. Candidates with additional teaching interests in contemporary U.S. ethnic literatures and/or Anglophone literatures are especially welcome, as are those who can teach genres other than poetry (fiction, creative nonfiction, drama). Requirements include an MFA in creative writing or a PhD in English or a related discipline, significant publications and promise of sustained productivity, and evidence of committed and successful teaching. The University of Hartford has a strong commitment to undergraduate teaching. The 3/3 teaching load may include introductory and advanced courses for majors, such as the multi-genre introduction to creative writing, the poetry workshop, and literature classes, as well as general education courses. Tenured and tenure-track faculty also bear service responsibilities to the College and the University. The University of Hartford is an open and welcoming community that values diversity in all its forms. In addition, the University aspires to have its faculty and staff reflect the rich diversity of its student body and the Hartford region. Candidates committed to working with diverse populations and conversant in multicultural issues are encouraged to apply. Further information about the University may be found at http://www.hartford.edu. Please send a cover letter and curriculum vitae to Dr. Mark Blackwell, Chair Department of English College of Arts and Sciences University of Hartford 200 Bloomfield Avenue West Hartford, CT 06117 Please do not forward other materials until requested. Deadline for applications is October 26, 2007. EEO/AA/M/F/D/V. Members of under-represented groups are encouraged to apply. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=summer+activities+for+kids&cs=bz ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 12:20:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Schlesinger Kyle Subject: New Contact Info and More Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable New Mailing Address: Kyle Schlesinger 214 North Henry Street Apt. #3 Brooklyn, NY 11222-3608 preferred email: kyleschlesinger@gmail.com New at SPD from Cuneiform: Ted Greenwald and Hal Saulson's Two Wrongs (2007) Building on New York's remarkable history of painter and poet collaborations, this striking art an= d text project features nearly thirty paintings and poems by two seasoned artists. Because his work always involves linguistic and formal invention, Ted Greenwald has often been associated with the Language Writers, but he i= s unmistakably a New York poet and even, given his street-wise sensibility an= d his long association with visual art and artists, a New York School poet. Typeset and designed by Kyle Schlesinger, the dimensions of the images are true to the original works of art. The fonts (Palatino and Michelangelo) were designed by Hermann Zapf. The sparkling metallic covers were printed letterpress and the images and text were printed offset. Hand-sewn in two signatures with the assistance of Michael Cross, Richard Owens and Andrew Rippeon. 250 copies. $20 I Have Imagined a Center // Wilder Than This Region: A Tribute to Susan How= e edited by Sarah Campbell (2007) With the intent of marking and celebrating Howe's years of teaching, the contributors to this volume were asked specifically to comment on her pedagogy and their experience of being her student at the State University of New York at Buffalo where she taught fro= m 1988-2007. Contributors include: Nathan Austin, Sarah Campbell, Barbara Cole, Richard Deming, Thom Donovan, Logan Esdale, Zack Finch, Graham Foust, Benjamin Friedlander, Peter Gizzi, Jena Osman, Kyle Schlesinger, Jonathan Skinner, Juliana Spahr, Sasha Steensen, and Elizabeth Willis. Edited by Sarah Campbell with an introduction by Neil Schmitz. 250 copies. $10 Bill Berkson's Sudden Address: Selected Lectures 1981-2006. (2007) In this stunning collection of lectures spanning twenty-five years, Berkson addresses subjects as various as Walt Whitman, Frank O'Hara, Philip Guston, Dante, and the sublime. Set in Scala, this edition is limited to 500 perfectbound copies. Cover by Philip Guston. No wonder Ron Padgett thinks =B3Bill Berkson's writing is witty, musical, daily, and deep, underpinned by a bracing integrity and shot through with gorgeous abstraction and other brilliant hookups between eye, ear, mind, an= d heart."$10 Ulf Stolterfoht=B9s Lingos VI (2007). Translated from German by Rosmarie Waldrop, Ulf Stolterfoht is clearly at the edge of the edge of innovative poetry in Germany today. Stolterfoht's witty precision and philosophical punch are what linger in the mind=B9s inner ear while his terse and demanding lyrics reconfigure the limits of our language=8Bthe limits of our world. Tony Frazier writes: =B3Fachsprachen =3D lingos, but there's no jargon here: th= e fach is the poet's own discipline, the tool is language, and Stolterfoht bends it, twists it and shapes it anew, piling words on top of each other i= n a veritable torrent of phonemes, the sounds hammering home.=B2$10 Forthcoming in September: Dan Featherston=B9s The Clock Maker=B9s Memoir ALL TITLES AVAILABLE DIRECT FROM SPD: http://www.spdbooks.org/ and all except =B3I Have Imagined A Center=B2 available from http://www.cuneiformpress.com/ Cheers! Kyle ______________ www.kyleschlesinger.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 12:35:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Miller Subject: Re: Critiphoria MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Q3JpdGlwaG9yaWEgaXMgYSBuZXcgam91cm5hbCB0aGF0IHdpbGwgZW5lcmdpemUgcG9ldHJ5IGFu ZCBjcml0aWNpc20gdGhyb3VnaCBvbmUgYW5vdGhlci4gV2Ugd2lsbCBwdWJsaXNoIHdvcmsgYXQg dGhlIGludGVyc2VjdGlvbnMgb2YgcG9ldHJ5IGFuZCBjcml0aWNpc206IGVzc2F5cyBpbiBwb2V0 aWMgZm9ybSwgZXNzYXlzIHVzaW5nIHBvZXRpYyBtZXRob2RvbG9neSwgcG9lbXMgd2l0aCBjcml0 aWNhbCBjb250ZW50LCDigJxwb2V0cnktY3JpdGljaXNt4oCdIGluIGl0cyB2YXJpb3VzIGZvcm1z LCBlc3NheXMgY29uY2VybmluZyBwb2V0cnktY3JpdGljaXNtLCBzdGF0ZW1lbnRzIGFib3V0IHBv ZXRpYyBwcm9kdWN0aW9uLiBXZSBhbHNvIGludml0ZSBwb2VtcywgZXNzYXlzLCBhbmQganBlZyB2 aXN1YWxzIG9mIGEgbW9yZSBnZW5lcmFsIG5hdHVyZSBwZXJ0aW5lbnQgdG8gQ3JpdGlwaG9yaS4g DQoNCiANCg0KU3VibWlzc2lvbnMgbWF5IGluY2x1ZGUgYSBzdGF0ZW1lbnQgY29uY2VybmluZyB0 aGUgc3VibWlzc2lvbiBhbmQgaG93IGl0IGNvbmNlcm5zIGR5bmFtaWMgaW50ZXJhY3Rpb24gYmV0 d2VlbiBwb2V0cnkgYW5kIGNyaXRpY2lzbS4gDQoNCiANCg0KQ3JpdGlwaG9yaWEgd2lsbCBhcHBl YXIgYXQgY3JpdGlwaG9yaWEub3JnLCBhbmQgYSBwcmludCBlZGl0aW9uIHdpbGwgYWxzbyBiZSBw dWJsaXNoZWQuIEVtYWlsIHN1Ym1pc3Npb25zIHRvIHRoZSBlZGl0b3JzOiBTdGVwaGVuIFBhdWwg TWlsbGVyLCBUaW0gUGV0ZXJzb24sIENlY2VsaWEgV3UgYXQgY3JpdGlwaG9yaWFAZ21haWwuY29t LiANCg0K ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 13:50:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tisa Bryant Subject: Re: Recordings of Poems by Kamau Brathwaite? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have an MP3 of Kamau reading from "Negus" which is part of his longer=20= poem, ISLANDS (in THE ARRIVANTS: A NEW WORLD TRILOGY). It's also on=20 the CD in the Exact Change Yearbook, which is where I got it from (lots=20= of great work on that CD). I teach with it every chance I get. And=20 every time he recites it, he puts it through some wonderful changes. =20 If you're interested, Tisa P.S.: I've found that instant messaging is the best way to exchange mp3=20= files, images, etc, that are too big for most email servers, but not=20 *too* big for IM. Nice and fast! ********************************** All the writer=92s noise is finally an attempt to shape a silence in=20 which something can go on. Call it the science of interpretation. Samuel R. = Delany On Aug 11, 2007, at 6:38 PM, Ruth Lepson wrote: > crag--if you backchannel me I will give you eliot's email--maybe he=20 > knows. > > > On 8/11/07 1:24 AM, "Schneider Hill" =20 > wrote: > >> Folks: >> >> b/channel if you know where I can find/buy Kamau Brathwaite reading=20= >> "Stone" >> and/or "How Europe Underdeveloped Africa" (both found in World Beat,=20= >> the >> excellently edited by Eliot Weinberger anthology of international=20 >> poetry, >> New Directions 2006, a book I hope to adopt for a World Lit=20 >> course...). I >> would prefer mp3 or cd formats. Leonard Schwartz' "Cross-Cultural=20 >> Poetics" >> on PENNSound has a Brathwaite program, but I haven't listened to all=20= >> of it >> yet... >> >> Best, Crag Hill >> >> http://scorecard.typepad.com > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 12:38:03 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Gate A4 in Albuquerque Airport and the Mamool Cookies: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Yesterday afternoon - from a return flight from abroad - I went through customs clearance in San Francisco. My partner was - for no apparent reason - told to put her bags through the screener. While I waited for her to go with relative ease through this process, I watched an entire Arab family of six or seven have their bags open and thoroughly investigated - the agents rifling through everything in each suitcase, asking questions about jars and containers with spices, etc. At another, inspection station, I watched an agent take two books and a note folder out of a man's brief case and then proceed to go through all the pages of notes, and then leaf through the books. The uniformed inspector's action gave me a very uncomfortable feeling - the sense of the State being able to have the unquestionable right to go through private papers. I suspect this is all done under the pretext that anyone is a potential terrorist and its done for 'our' protection. There is that sense of that thin line - the crossing of which becomes an act of state terrorism in which we are terrorized by these folks that are given this authority. What happens to your notes and books, for example, if you are found at the border to be carrying notes that are critical of the Bush regime, or the Christian Church, etc. And if you happen to be an Arab visitor, or Chinese, or...let alone a USA citizen ?? Nye's piece - kind as it is - does not go there. I wish that it would. Stephen V http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ > Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 01:06:39 -0700 (PDT) > From: patricia blair > > How easily we could choose a world like this. WHy don't we? Peace to > you, Pat > > Friends, > This may just make your day. > Peace, > Margaret > ---------- > Wandering Around an Albuquerque Airport Terminal > by Naomi Shihab Nye > > After learning my flight was detained 4 hours, I heard the announcement: > If anyone in the vicinity of gate 4-A understands any Arabic, please come > to the gate immediately. > > Well -- one pauses these days. Gate 4-A was my own gate. I went there. An > older woman in full traditional Palestinian dress, just like my grandma > wore, was crumpled to the floor, wailing loudly. Help, said the flight > service person. Talk to her. What is her problem? We told her the flight > was going to be four hours late and she did this. > > I put my arm around her and spoke to her haltingly. Shu dow-a,shu-biduck > habibti, stani stani schway, min fadlick, sho bit se-wee? The minute she > heard my words she knew -- however poorly used -- she stopped crying. She > thought our flight had been cancelled entirely. She needed to be in El > Paso for some major medical treatment the following day. I said no, no, > we're fine, you'll get there, just late, who is picking you up? Let's call > him and tell him. We called her son and I spoke with him in English. > > I told him I would stay with his mother till we got on the plane and would > ride next to her. She talked to him. Then we called her other sons just > for the fun of it. Then we called my dad and he and she spoke for a while > in Arabic and found out of course they had ten shared friends. Then I > thought just for the heck of it why not call some Palestinian poets I know > and let them chat with her. > > This all took up about 2 hours. She was laughing a lot by then. Telling > about her life. Answering questions. > > She had pulled a sack of homemade mamool cookies -- little powdered sugar > crumbly mounds stuffed with dates and nuts -- out of her bag and was > offering them to all the women at the gate. To my amazement, not a single > woman declined one. It was like a sacrament. The traveler from Argentina, > the traveler from California, the lovely woman from Laredo -- we were all > covered with the same powdered sugar. And smiling. There are no better > cookies. > > And then the airline broke out the free beverages from huge coolers -- > non-alcoholic -- and the two little girls for our flight, one > African-American, one Mexican-American -- ran around serving us all apple > juice and lemonade and they were covered with powdered sugar, too. And I > noticed my new best friend -- by now we were holding hands -- had a potted > plant poking out of her bag, some medicinal thing, with green furry > leaves. Such an old country traveling tradition. Always carry a plant. > Always stay rooted to somewhere. And I looked around that gate of late and > weary ones and thought, this is the world I want to live in. The shared > world. Not a single person in this gate -- once the crying of confusion > stopped -- has seemed apprehensive about any other person. They took the > cookies. I wanted to hug all those other women, too. This can still > happen, anywhere. > > Not everything is lost. > > Naomi Shihab Nye is an American poet of Palestinian background. > > The Rev. Mike Kinman > Executive Director, Episcopalians for Global Reconciliation > MKinman@gmail.com + 314.348.6453 + www.e4gr.org + > http://revmikek.blogspot.com > "The alleviation of material suffering in the world and the spiritual > renewal of the church go hand in hand." > -The Rev. Dr. Sabina Alkire > > > = ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 20:06:30 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nicholas Karavatos Subject: Re: Elvira Arellano: arrested in LA Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Speaking as someone who is a legal guest worker in a foreign country, what makes a person who enters a country illegally and then creates a false identity (not her SSN) in order to work there ... what makes her an "immigrant rights activist"? Is it because of birth citizenship and the appeal to emotion? If a person mothers or fathers a baby they should - for emotional reasons - share in the baby's automatic citizenship? Does a person's insistence to stay illegally in the US because her child was born in the US make her an "immigrant rights activist"? The US is rather unique in its practice of birth citizenship. I think most of the world's countries do not practice this. Does it make legal sense to restrict birth citizenship to people in the country legally? Has the US passed the phase in its development when birth citizenship was practical? Or, are all Latin American non-citizens automatically "immigrant rights activists" because the gringos are pillaging usurpers who stole the land that Spain stole first? I've always liked that one. I don't know. I didn't watch/listen/read this unfold dramatically day-by-day, though it was covered by Al Jazeera on TV here. As I wander the globe and mingle in the situations of various expatriate workers, I wonder about the immigrant worker situations in the US, and visas and borders in general - if we can have a free-flow of global capital, why not a free-flow of global labor? Of course, as an "privileged American" I can't compare my experiences with most others, can I? Almost any country will let me in and most of those would give me a work visa. Or maybe I've also just grown less sentimental. If the US could run a guest worker program without the indentured servitude experienced by South Asians in the Arabian Gulf, we could avoid some of this pain. Maybe. Nicholas Karavatos Dept of Language & Literature American University of Sharjah PO Box 26666 Sharjah United Arab Emirates >From: Jennifer Karmin >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Elvira Arellano: arrested in LA >Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 20:07:39 -0700 > >Immigrant rights activist Elvira Arellano was arrested >in Los Angeles on Sunday afternoon. She sought refuge >inside a Chicago church for one year and actively >disobeyed an order by the Department of Homeland >Security to turn herself in for deportation. > >http://email.chicagotribune.com/cgi-bin1/DM/y/eBVxh0Rv1ZB0G2E0IrEB0Ay > >Immigration activist Arellano arrested >By Antonio Olivo > >An illegal Mexican immigrant who sought refuge inside >a Chicago church for a year was arrested in Los >Angeles on Sunday afternoon after taking her campaign >on the road. > >Elvira Arellano was arrested about 4:15 p.m. Chicago >time by law enforcement officials after leaving Our >Lady Queen of Angels Church in downtown Los Angeles, >said Emma Lozano, an adviser who was there during the >arrest. > >After talking to news media inside the church, >Arellano and her supporters got into their van to head >north to San Jose, where she was scheduled to speak at >another church, Lozano said. Moments after they got in >the van, an unmarked vehicle stopped them. > >The driver of Arellano's van, Roberto Lopez, poked his >head out of the van because he wanted to see why they >were being blocked. Several other unmarked vehicles >surrounded their van. > >Agents came out of all the cars screaming at the top >of their lungs for her to get out, Lozano said. Her >8-year-old son, Saul, started to cry, and Arellano >said to everyone in the car, "Calm down. Don't have >any fear. They can't hurt me." > >Then she turned to the people who were about to arrest >her and she said, "You're going to have to give me a >minute with my son," Lozano said. She spent time with >her son in the car, and then surrendered. > >It was over in less than two minutes. She was arrested >Sunday on Main Street, near Our Lady Queen of Angels, >where Arellano slept Saturday night and where she's >held several press conferences Saturday and Sunday. > >In a statement released Sunday night, U.S. Immigration >and Customs Enforcement said that its "officers in Los >Angeles today arrested criminal alien and immigration >fugitive Elvira Arellano." > >"Arellano, who was taken into custody without >incident, is being processed for removal to Mexico >based upon a deportation order originally issued by a >federal immigration judge in 1997," the statment said. >"Arresting and removing criminal aliens is one of >ICE's top enforcement priorities and the agency will >continue to pursue these cases vigorously." > >Much of the anger from all parts of the political >spectrum surrounding illegal immigration has been >crystallized by Arellano's story. After entering the >country illegally twice, she became an activist >shortly after she was arrested in 2002 during a >federal sweep at O'Hare International Airport, where >Arellano cleaned airplanes. She was later convicted of >using a fake Social Security card. > >Rick Biesada, director and founder of the Chicago >Minuteman Project, lauded the arrest, but he said it >came a year too late. > >"I was wondering why the police were dragging their >feet," he said. "By not going in there and getting >her, other illegals were going to churches seeking >sanctuary. Now we're going to have hell to pay in this >country trying to extract these people." > >Local Spanish-language radio host Javier Salas said he >felt badly for what happened to Arellano. But in >leaving the sanctuary of Adalberto United Methodist >Church and heading to Los Angeles, it was only a >matter of time before she was arrested. > >"I'm not happy that this happened, but it was bound to >happen because she was challenging the system," said >Salas, the host of the morning-drive talk show La >Tremenda on WRTO AM-1200. > >By Sunday afternoon Salas was already talking about >the arrest on the radio, and callers were weighing in >too. > >Callers were "saying that she was traveling to Los >Angeles and around the United States, she would >provoke [Immigration and Customs Enforcement] and the >anti-immigrant groups," he said. "There would be >checkpoints everywhere." > >Salas questioned why it appeared that mainstream media >make Arellano out to be the face of undocumented >immigrants, when her actions have exacerbated the >animosity toward them. > >"She wasn't down to earth," he said, adding that >Arellano acted "entitled" to rights "when there's >thousands and thousands of people in the same >situation." > >"She made everything worse," Salas said. "She's not a >face of the immigrants. My family without papers, she >doesn't represent them." > >Activists in the Chicago area who have followed >Arellano's story weren't surprised that the law caught >up to her. > >"Everyone knew it was probably a question of when, not >if " she would be arrested, said Joshua Hoyt, >executive director of the Illinois Coalition for >Immigrant and Refugee Rights. "It just made me feel >really sad because she knows she's looking at time in >prison. I feel bad for her and for her child and for >all the other people in that situation." > >Hoyt said he met Arellano nearly three years ago after >she was arrested in a sweep of undocumented immigrants >working at O'Hare International Airport. > >Arellano had been cleaning planes at night, he said. >At the time --"before she was famous," Hoyt noted--she >was afraid, intimidated and ashamed because she had >been arrested by federal agents in front of her son. > >"She was really emotional and really hurt. She was >deeply offended that she would get arrested in front >of her child and be treated like a criminal," Hoyt >said. "She thought someone who comes here to work hard >at night so she can support her child is not a >criminal." > >In the intervening years, however, she turned her pain >to activism, organizing the families of those being >deported, he said. > >"I think she's an incredibly brave person who's put a >human face on the suffering of the undocumented in >this country and because of the cowardice of >politicians, many more families are going to be >destroyed and many more people are going to die on the >borders," Hoyt said. "America needs to look itself in >the face and ask if we want to be that kind of >country." > >The church where Arellano sought sanctuary for the >last year became the command center where friends and >organizers gathered to plan a vigil on Sunday night to >show support for Arellano after her arrest. > >Those who lived with her and knew her best at Alberto >United Methodist Church cried together and hugged each >other but quickly brushed aside the tears, channeling >their grief into action. > >Less than an hour after the arrest, Jacobita Alonso >arrived at the front of the church in tears. For >several minutes, people inside the church struggled to >open the padlock on the gate that for a year had kept >Arellano protected from the outside. > >Work immediately began for a vigil, from phone calls >to alert supporters to getting batteries for the >speakers they would use to take their message to the >street. > >Jacobita Alonso, a lay leader at the church who stayed >with Arellano on the second-floor apartment over the >last year, felt propelled to action. > >"We cannot sit here only grieving. All we can do is >organize our people. We want her to know she is not >alone. The community is crying. Her fight is a fight >for all people," she said Sunday. "There are thousands >of Elviras. There are thousands of mothers just like >Elvira who just want to keep their families together." > >Alonso and a dozen other supporters sat in the >second-floor apartment where Arellano lived, watching >television news broadcasts and sending out messages by >e-mail. > >The group has already organized a vigil for 7 p.m. at >the Immigration and Customs Enforcement office >downtown at Congress Parkway and Clark Street and >another at 9 a.m. at the same location to show support >for Arellano, but also to protest the arrest. > >George Atkins sat in the sanctuary, quitely observing. > >"I'm sad she was arrested, but I'm proud that she was >a member of this church and that I got to know her," >Atkins said. "She always knew she could be arrested. >She could have slipped quietly into the night like >many others do but she chose to stand up for what she >believed in." > >Questions swirled up and down the church stairs. What >would happen to Arellano's son? Where would Arellano >go? Alonso said the boy was with Lozano, her closest >advisor, but she wondered if he would be returned to >Chicago, as Arellano had expressed hope to her many >times before. > >"All I can say is that miracles exist and we're >praying," Alonso said. > >Amid heavy rainfall, about three dozen people sang, >prayed and read passages from the Bible during a vigil >tonight outside the ICE's Chicago headquarters, 536 S. >Clark St., to show their disapproval of her arrest. > >One of the attendees, Ald. Ricardo Munoz (22nd), said, >"It's a sad day. We need comprehensive immigration >reform that keeps families together. A young boy, a >U.S. citizen, lost his mother to a broken system." > >Munoz said, "Elvira has put a face to this struggle. >There are 12 million illegal immigrants that head to >work every morning, not knowing if they'll come home >at the end of the day." > >He said other aldermen would be reaching out to U.S. >Sens. Dick Durbin and Barack Obama for help in >diffusing the situation, and preventing Arellano from >being deported. > >Jorge Mujica, an organizer of the March 10 Committee, >which earlier this year set up a large scale protest >downtown advocating immigration reform, said Arellano >would not have been arrested in Chicago because she >has so much support from city officials and the Latino >community. > >"They waited for the right time. She could not live in >the church forever," Mujica said. > >Up until now, she had been a symbol of the immigration >debate, Mujica said. But now with her arrest she has >become a martyr because "she has suffered unjustly." > >"People who had not heard of Elvira before are going >to hear her story and better understand the debate," >Mujica said. > >Tribune staff reporters Emma Graves Fitzsimmons and >Andrew L. Wang contributed to this report from >Chicago. > >Copyright © 2007, Chicago Tribune > > > > >____________________________________________________________________________________ >Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, >news, photos & more. >http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC _________________________________________________________________ Now you can see trouble…before he arrives http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_protection_0507 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 16:37:02 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: Cruising for Review Copies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe Brainard's Pyjamas wants to continue to be a miscellany and in that spirit of getting even more miscellaneous am trolling for review copies of new works...give me your poetry, your prosoids, your huddled masses...esp. new mags if you're working one, because then it's like instant societal cross-section pb&j....yum. If it makes me prune in my bathtub I will review it on my site and you may be seen by actually DOZENS of people...and consequently promoted to Poetry Heaven...and it's all about getting to Poetry Heaven, right?...just send real addy request to my email and put "Snail Mail" in the heading....am open to novels but my short attention span requires the novel have asterisks or graphics or something that breaks it up...j/k...i read everything....the site attempts to be an online metaphorical creation of the Collier Bros. househould in New York (you know the one where they were crushed eventually by the mountains of accumulated random debris?)....here's where it accretes: _http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/_ (http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/) ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 22:48:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alexander Jorgensen Subject: Re: Fascinating - Mother Teresa's Crisis of Faith In-Reply-To: <46CE4488.8080109@ilstu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Wish this article had been available before I'd left Kolkata a few weeks back. http://www.time.com/time/printout/0,8816,1655415,00.html Mother Teresa's Crisis of Faith - By David Van BiemaJesus has a very special love for you. As for me, the silence and the emptiness is so great that I look and do not see, listen and do not hear. — Mother Teresa to the Rev. Michael Van Der Peet, September 1979 On Dec. 11, 1979, Mother Teresa, the "Saint of the Gutters," went to Oslo. Dressed in her signature blue-bordered sari and shod in sandals despite below-zero temperatures, the former Agnes Bojaxhiu received that ultimate worldly accolade, the Nobel Peace Prize. In her acceptance lecture, Teresa, whose Missionaries of Charity had grown from a one-woman folly in Calcutta in 1948 into a global beacon of self-abnegating care, delivered the kind of message the world had come to expect from her. "It is not enough for us to say, 'I love God, but I do not love my neighbor,'" she said, since in dying on the Cross, God had "[made] himself the hungry one — the naked one — the homeless one." Jesus' hunger, she said, is what "you and I must find" and alleviate. She condemned abortion and bemoaned youthful drug addiction in the West. Finally, she suggested that the upcoming Christmas holiday should remind the world "that radiating joy is real" because Christ is everywhere — "Christ in our hearts, Christ in the poor we meet, Christ in the smile we give and in the smile that we receive." Yet less than three months earlier, in a letter to a spiritual confidant, the Rev. Michael van der Peet, that is only now being made public, she wrote with weary familiarity of a different Christ, an absent one. "Jesus has a very special love for you," she assured Van der Peet. "[But] as for me, the silence and the emptiness is so great, that I look and do not see, — Listen and do not hear — the tongue moves [in prayer] but does not speak ... I want you to pray for me — that I let Him have [a] free hand." The two statements, 11 weeks apart, are extravagantly dissonant. The first is typical of the woman the world thought it knew. The second sounds as though it had wandered in from some 1950s existentialist drama. Together they suggest a startling portrait in self-contradiction — that one of the great human icons of the past 100 years, whose remarkable deeds seemed inextricably connected to her closeness to God and who was routinely observed in silent and seemingly peaceful prayer by her associates as well as the television camera, was living out a very different spiritual reality privately, an arid landscape from which the deity had disappeared. And in fact, that appears to be the case. A new, innocuously titled book, Mother Teresa: Come Be My Light (Doubleday), consisting primarily of correspondence between Teresa and her confessors and superiors over a period of 66 years, provides the spiritual counterpoint to a life known mostly through its works. The letters, many of them preserved against her wishes (she had requested that they be destroyed but was overruled by her church), reveal that for the last nearly half-century of her life she felt no presence of God whatsoever — or, as the book's compiler and editor, the Rev. Brian Kolodiejchuk, writes, "neither in her heart or in the eucharist." That absence seems to have started at almost precisely the time she began tending the poor and dying in Calcutta, and — except for a five-week break in 1959 — never abated. Although perpetually cheery in public, the Teresa of the letters lived in a state of deep and abiding spiritual pain. In more than 40 communications, many of which have never before been published, she bemoans the "dryness," "darkness," "loneliness" and "torture" she is undergoing. She compares the experience to hell and at one point says it has driven her to doubt the existence of heaven and even of God. She is acutely aware of the discrepancy between her inner state and her public demeanor. "The smile," she writes, is "a mask" or "a cloak that covers everything." Similarly, she wonders whether she is engaged in verbal deception. "I spoke as if my very heart was in love with God — tender, personal love," she remarks to an adviser. "If you were [there], you would have said, 'What hypocrisy.'" Says the Rev. James Martin, an editor at the Jesuit magazine America and the author of My Life with the Saints, a book that dealt with far briefer reports in 2003 of Teresa's doubts: "I've never read a saint's life where the saint has such an intense spiritual darkness. No one knew she was that tormented." Recalls Kolodiejchuk, Come Be My Light's editor: "I read one letter to the Sisters [of Teresa's Missionaries of Charity], and their mouths just dropped open. It will give a whole new dimension to the way people understand her." The book is hardly the work of some antireligious investigative reporter who Dumpster-dived for Teresa's correspondence. Kolodiejchuk, a senior Missionaries of Charity member, is her postulator, responsible for petitioning for her sainthood and collecting the supporting materials. (Thus far she has been beatified; the next step is canonization.) The letters in the book were gathered as part of that process. The church anticipates spiritually fallow periods. Indeed, the Spanish mystic St. John of the Cross in the 16th century coined the term the "dark night" of the soul to describe a characteristic stage in the growth of some spiritual masters. Teresa's may be the most extensive such case on record. (The "dark night" of the 18th century mystic St. Paul of the Cross lasted 45 years; he ultimately recovered.) Yet Kolodiejchuk sees it in St. John's context, as darkness within faith. Teresa found ways, starting in the early 1960s, to live with it and abandoned neither her belief nor her work. Kolodiejchuk produced the book as proof of the faith-filled perseverance that he sees as her most spiritually heroic act. Two very different Catholics predict that the book will be a landmark. The Rev. Matthew Lamb, chairman of the theology department at the conservative Ave Maria University in Florida, thinks Come Be My Light will eventually rank with St. Augustine's Confessions and Thomas Merton's The Seven Storey Mountain as an autobiography of spiritual ascent. Martin of America, a much more liberal institution, calls the book "a new ministry for Mother Teresa, a written ministry of her interior life," and says, "It may be remembered as just as important as her ministry to the poor. It would be a ministry to people who had experienced some doubt, some absence of God in their lives. And you know who that is? Everybody. Atheists, doubters, seekers, believers, everyone." Not all atheists and doubters will agree. Both Kolodiejchuk and Martin assume that Teresa's inability to perceive Christ in her life did not mean he wasn't there. In fact, they see his absence as part of the divine gift that enabled her to do great work. But to the U.S.'s increasingly assertive cadre of atheists, that argument will seem absurd. They will see the book's Teresa more like the woman in the archetypal country-and-western song who holds a torch for her husband 30 years after he left to buy a pack of cigarettes and never returned. Says Christopher Hitchens, author of The Missionary Position, a scathing polemic on Teresa, and more recently of the atheist manifesto God Is Not Great: "She was no more exempt from the realization that religion is a human fabrication than any other person, and that her attempted cure was more and more professions of faith could only have deepened the pit that she had dug for herself." Meanwhile, some familiar with the smiling mother's extraordinary drive may diagnose her condition less as a gift of God than as a subconscious attempt at the most radical kind of humility: she punished herself with a crippling failure to counterbalance her great successes. Come Be My Light is that rare thing, a posthumous autobiography that could cause a wholesale reconsideration of a major public figure — one way or another. It raises questions about God and faith, the engine behind great achievement, and the persistence of love, divine and human. That it does so not in any organized, intentional form but as a hodgepodge of desperate notes not intended for daylight should leave readers only more convinced that it is authentic — and that they are, somewhat shockingly, touching the true inner life of a modern saint. Prequel: Near Ecstatic Communion [Jesus:] Wilt thou refuse to do this for me? ... You have become my Spouse for my love — you have come to India for Me. The thirst you had for souls brought you so far — Are you afraid to take one more step for Your Spouse — for me — for souls? Is your generosity grown cold? Am I a second to you? [Teresa:] Jesus, my own Jesus — I am only Thine — I am so stupid — I do not know what to say but do with me whatever You wish — as You wish — as long as you wish. [But] why can't I be a perfect Loreto Nun — here — why can't I be like everybody else. [Jesus:] I want Indian Nuns, Missionaries of Charity, who would be my fire of love amongst the poor, the sick, the dying and the little children ... You are I know the most incapable person — weak and sinful but just because you are that — I want to use You for My glory. Wilt thou refuse? — in a prayer dialogue recounted to Archbishop Ferdinand Perier, January 1947 On Sept. 10, 1946, after 17 years as a teacher in Calcutta with the Loreto Sisters (an uncloistered, education-oriented community based in Ireland), Mother Mary Teresa, 36, took the 400-mile (645-km) train trip to Darjeeling. She had been working herself sick, and her superiors ordered her to relax during her annual retreat in the Himalayan foothills. On the ride out, she reported, Christ spoke to her. He called her to abandon teaching and work instead in "the slums" of the city, dealing directly with "the poorest of the poor" — the sick, the dying, beggars and street children. "Come, Come, carry Me into the holes of the poor," he told her. "Come be My light." The goal was to be both material and evangelistic — as Kolodiejchuk puts it, "to help them live their lives with dignity [and so] encounter God's infinite love, and having come to know Him, to love and serve Him in return." It was wildly audacious — an unfunded, single-handed crusade (Teresa stipulated that she and her nuns would share their beneficiaries' poverty and started out alone) to provide individualized service to the poorest in a poor city made desperate by riots. The local Archbishop, Ferdinand Périer, was initially skeptical. But her letters to him, preserved, illustrate two linked characteristics — extreme tenacity and a profound personal bond to Christ. When Périer hesitated, Teresa, while calling herself a "little nothing," bombarded him with notes suggesting that he refer the question to an escalating list of authorities — the local apostolic delegation, her Mother General, the Pope. And when she felt all else had failed, she revealed the spiritual topper: a dramatic (melodramatic, really) dialogue with a "Voice" she eventually revealed to be Christ's. It ended with Jesus' emphatic reiteration of his call to her: "You are I know the most incapable person — weak and sinful but just because you are that — I want to use You for My glory. Wilt thou refuse?" Mother Teresa had visions, including one of herself conversing with Christ on the Cross. Her confessor, Father Celeste Van Exem, was convinced that her mystical experiences were genuine. "[Her] union with Our Lord has been continual and so deep and violent that rapture does not seem very far," he commented. Teresa later wrote simply, "Jesus gave Himself to me." Then on Jan. 6, 1948, Périer, after consulting the Vatican, finally gave permission for Teresa to embark on her second calling. And Jesus took himself away again. The Onset Lord, my God, who am I that You should forsake me? The Child of your Love — and now become as the most hated one — the one — You have thrown away as unwanted — unloved. I call, I cling, I want — and there is no One to answer — no One on Whom I can cling — no, No One. — Alone ... Where is my Faith — even deep down right in there is nothing, but emptiness & darkness — My God — how painful is this unknown pain — I have no Faith — I dare not utter the words & thoughts that crowd in my heart — & make me suffer untold agony. So many unanswered questions live within me afraid to uncover them — because of the blasphemy — If there be God — please forgive me — When I try to raise my thoughts to Heaven — there is such convicting emptiness that those very thoughts return like sharp knives & hurt my very soul. — I am told God loves me — and yet the reality of darkness & coldness & emptiness is so great that nothing touches my soul. Did I make a mistake in surrendering blindly to the Call of the Sacred Heart? — addressed to Jesus, at the suggestion of a confessor, undated In the first half of 1948, Teresa took a basic medical course before launching herself alone onto the streets of Calcutta. She wrote, "My soul at present is in perfect peace and joy." Kolodiejchuk includes her moving description of her first day on the job: "The old man lying on the street — not wanted — all alone just sick and dying — I gave him carborsone and water to drink and the old Man — was so strangely grateful ... Then we went to Taltala Bazaar, and there was a very poor woman dying I think of starvation more than TB ... I gave her something which will help her to sleep. — I wonder how long she will last." But two months later, shortly after her major triumph of locating a space for her headquarters, Kolodiejchuk's files find her troubled. "What tortures of loneliness," she wrote. "I wonder how long will my heart suffer this?" This complaint could be understood as an initial response to solitude and hardship were it not for subsequent letters. The more success Teresa had — and half a year later so many young women had joined her society that she needed to move again — the worse she felt. In March 1953, she wrote Périer, "Please pray specially for me that I may not spoil His work and that Our Lord may show Himself — for there is such terrible darkness within me, as if everything was dead. It has been like this more or less from the time I started 'the work.'" Périer may have missed the note of desperation. "God guides you, dear Mother," he answered avuncularly. "You are not so much in the dark as you think ... You have exterior facts enough to see that God blesses your work ... Feelings are not required and often may be misleading." And yet feelings — or rather, their lack — became her life's secret torment. How can you assume the lover's ardor when he no longer grants you his voice, his touch, his very presence? The problem was exacerbated by an inhibition to even describe it. Teresa reported on several occasions inviting a confessor to visit and then being unable to speak. Eventually, one thought to ask her to write the problem down, and she complied. "The more I want him — the less I am wanted," she wrote Périer in 1955. A year later she sounded desolate: "Such deep longing for God — and ... repulsed — empty — no faith — no love — no zeal. — [The saving of] Souls holds no attraction — Heaven means nothing — pray for me please that I keep smiling at Him in spite of everything." At the suggestion of a confessor, she wrote the agonized plea that begins this section, in which she explored the theological worst-possible-case implications of her dilemma. That letter and another one from 1959 ("What do I labour for? If there be no God — there can be no soul — if there is no Soul then Jesus — You also are not true") are the only two that sound any note of doubt of God's existence. But she frequently bemoaned an inability to pray: "I utter words of Community prayers — and try my utmost to get out of every word the sweetness it has to give — But my prayer of union is not there any longer — I no longer pray." As the Missionaries of Charity flourished and gradually gained the attention of her church and the world at large, Teresa progressed from confessor to confessor the way some patients move through their psychoanalysts. Van Exem gave way to Périer, who gave way in 1959 to the Rev. (later Cardinal) Lawrence Picachy, who was succeeded by the Rev. Joseph Neuner in 1961. By the 1980s the chain included figures such as Bishop William Curlin of Charlotte, N.C. For these confessors, she developed a kind of shorthand of pain, referring almost casually to "my darkness" and to Jesus as "the Absent One." There was one respite. In October 1958, Pope Pius XII died, and requiem Masses were celebrated around the Catholic world. Teresa prayed to the deceased Pope for a "proof that God is pleased with the Society." And "then and there," she rejoiced, "disappeared the long darkness ... that strange suffering of 10 years." Unfortunately, five weeks later she reported being "in the tunnel" once more. And although, as we shall see, she found a way to accept the absence, it never lifted again. Five years after her Nobel, a Jesuit priest in the Calcutta province noted that "Mother came ... to speak about the excruciating night in her soul. It was not a passing phase but had gone on for years." A 1995 letter discussed her "spiritual dryness." She died in 1997. Explanations Tell me, Father, why is there so much pain and darkness in my soul? — to the Rev. Lawrence Picachy, August 1959 Why did Teresa's communication with Jesus, so vivid and nourishing in the months before the founding of the Missionaries, evaporate so suddenly? Interestingly, secular and religious explanations travel for a while on parallel tracks. Both understand (although only one celebrates) that identification with Christ's extended suffering on the Cross, undertaken to redeem humanity, is a key aspect of Catholic spirituality. Teresa told her nuns that physical poverty ensured empathy in "giving themselves" to the suffering poor and established a stronger bond with Christ's redemptive agony. She wrote in 1951 that the Passion was the only aspect of Jesus' life that she was interested in sharing: "I want to ... drink ONLY [her emphasis] from His chalice of pain." And so she did, although by all indications not in a way she had expected. Kolodiejchuk finds divine purpose in the fact that Teresa's spiritual spigot went dry just as she prevailed over her church's perceived hesitations and saw a successful way to realize Jesus' call for her. "She was a very strong personality," he suggests. "And a strong personality needs stronger purification" as an antidote to pride. As proof that it worked, he cites her written comment after receiving an important prize in the Philippines in the 1960s: "This means nothing to me, because I don't have Him." And yet "the question is, Who determined the abandonment she experienced?" says Dr. Richard Gottlieb, a teacher at the New York Psychoanalytic Society & Institute who has written about the church and who was provided a copy of the book by TIME. "Could she have imposed it on herself?" Psychologists have long recognized that people of a certain personality type are conflicted about their high achievement and find ways to punish themselves. Gottlieb notes that Teresa's ambitions for her ministry were tremendous. Both he and Kolodiejchuk are fascinated by her statement, "I want to love Jesus as he has never been loved before." Remarks the priest: "That's a kind of daring thing to say." Yet her letters are full of inner conflict about her accomplishments. Rather than simply giving all credit to God, Gottlieb observes, she agonizes incessantly that "any taking credit for her accomplishments — if only internally — is sinful" and hence, perhaps, requires a price to be paid. A mild secular analog, he says, might be an executive who commits a horrific social gaffe at the instant of a crucial promotion. For Teresa, "an occasion for a modicum of joy initiated a significant quantity of misery," and her subsequent successes led her to perpetuate it. Gottlieb also suggests that starting her ministry "may have marked a turning point in her relationship with Jesus," whose urgent claims she was finally in a position to fulfill. Being the active party, he speculates, might have scared her, and in the end, the only way to accomplish great things might have been in the permanent and less risky role of the spurned yet faithful lover. The atheist position is simpler. In 1948, Hitchens ventures, Teresa finally woke up, although she could not admit it. He likens her to die-hard Western communists late in the cold war: "There was a huge amount of cognitive dissonance," he says. "They thought, 'Jesus, the Soviet Union is a failure, [but] I'm not supposed to think that. It means my life is meaningless.' They carried on somehow, but the mainspring was gone. And I think once the mainspring is gone, it cannot be repaired." That, he says, was Teresa. Most religious readers will reject that explanation, along with any that makes her the author of her own misery — or even defines it as true misery. Martin, responding to the torch-song image of Teresa, counterproposes her as the heroically constant spouse. "Let's say you're married and you fall in love and you believe with all your heart that marriage is a sacrament. And your wife, God forbid, gets a stroke and she's comatose. And you will never experience her love again. It's like loving and caring for a person for 50 years and once in a while you complain to your spiritual director, but you know on the deepest level that she loves you even though she's silent and that what you're doing makes sense. Mother Teresa knew that what she was doing made sense." Integration I can't express in words — the gratitude I owe you for your kindness to me — for the first time in ... years — I have come to love the darkness — for I believe now that it is part of a very, very small part of Jesus' darkness & pain on earth. You have taught me to accept it [as] a 'spiritual side of your work' as you wrote — Today really I felt a deep joy — that Jesus can't go anymore through the agony — but that He wants to go through it in me. — to Neuner, Circa 1961 There are two responses to trauma: to hold onto it in all its vividness and remain its captive, or without necessarily "conquering" it, to gradually integrate it into the day-by-day. After more than a decade of open-wound agony, Teresa seems to have begun regaining her spiritual equilibrium with the help of a particularly perceptive adviser. The Rev. Joseph Neuner, whom she met in the late 1950s and confided in somewhat later, was already a well-known theologian, and when she turned to him with her "darkness," he seems to have told her the three things she needed to hear: that there was no human remedy for it (that is, she should not feel responsible for affecting it); that feeling Jesus is not the only proof of his being there, and her very craving for God was a "sure sign" of his "hidden presence" in her life; and that the absence was in fact part of the "spiritual side" of her work for Jesus. This counsel clearly granted Teresa a tremendous sense of release. For all that she had expected and even craved to share in Christ's Passion, she had not anticipated that she might recapitulate the particular moment on the Cross when he asks, "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?" The idea that rather than a nihilistic vacuum, his felt absence might be the ordeal she had prayed for, that her perseverance in its face might echo his faith unto death on the Cross, that it might indeed be a grace, enhancing the efficacy of her calling, made sense of her pain. Neuner would later write, "It was the redeeming experience of her life when she realized that the night of her heart was the special share she had in Jesus' passion." And she thanked Neuner profusely: "I can't express in words — the gratitude I owe you for your kindness to me — for the first time in ... years — I have come to love the darkness. " Not that it didn't continue to torment her. Years later, describing the joy in Jesus experienced by some of her nuns, she observed dryly to Neuner, "I just have the joy of having nothing — not even the reality of the Presence of God [in the Eucharist]." She described her soul as like an "ice block." Yet she recognized Neuner's key distinction, writing, "I accept not in my feelings — but with my will, the Will of God — I accept His will." Although she still occasionally worried that she might "turn a Judas to Jesus in this painful darkness," with the passage of years the absence morphed from a potential wrecking ball into a kind of ragged cornerstone. Says Gottlieb, the psychoanalyst: "What is remarkable is that she integrated it in a way that enabled her to make it the organizing center of her personality, the beacon for her ongoing spiritual life." Certainly, she understood it as essential enough to project it into her afterlife. "If I ever become a Saint — I will surely be one of 'darkness.' I will continually be absent from Heaven — to [light] the light of those in darkness on earth," she wrote in 1962. Theologically, this is a bit odd since most orthodox Christianity defines heaven as God's eternal presence and doesn't really provide for regular no-shows at the heavenly feast. But it is, Kolodiejchuk suggests, her most moving statement, since the sacrifice involved is infinite. "When she wrote, 'I am willing to suffer ... for all eternity, if this [is] possible,'" he says, "I said, Wow." He contends that the letters reveal her as holier than anyone knew. However formidable her efforts on Christ's behalf, it is even more astounding to realize that she achieved them when he was not available to her — a bit like a person who believes she can't walk winning the Olympic 100 meters. Kolodiejchuk goes even further. Catholic theologians recognize two types of "dark night": the first is purgative, cleansing the contemplative for a "final union" with Christ; the second is "reparative," and continues after such a union, so that he or she may participate in a state of purity even closer to that of Jesus and Mary, who suffered for human salvation despite being without sin. By the end, writes Kolodiejchuk, "by all indications this was the case with Mother Teresa." That puts her in rarefied company. A New Ministry If this brings You glory — if souls are brought to you — with joy I accept all to the end of my life. — to Jesus, undated But for most people, Teresa's ranking among Catholic saints may be less important than a more general implication of Come Be My Light: that if she could carry on for a half-century without God in her head or heart, then perhaps people not quite as saintly can cope with less extreme versions of the same problem. One powerful instance of this may have occurred very early on. In 1968, British writer-turned-filmmaker Malcolm Muggeridge visited Teresa. Muggeridge had been an outspoken agnostic, but by the time he arrived with a film crew in Calcutta he was in full spiritual-search mode. Beyond impressing him with her work and her holiness, she wrote a letter to him in 1970 that addressed his doubts full-bore. "Your longing for God is so deep and yet He keeps Himself away from you," she wrote. "He must be forcing Himself to do so — because he loves you so much — the personal love Christ has for you is infinite — The Small difficulty you have re His Church is finite — Overcome the finite with the infinite." Muggeridge apparently did. He became an outspoken Christian apologist and converted to Catholicism in 1982. His 1969 film, Something Beautiful for God, supported by a 1971 book of the same title, made Teresa an international sensation. At the time, Muggeridge was something of a unique case. A child of privilege who became a minor celebrity, he was hardly Teresa's target audience. Now, with the publication of Come Be My Light, we can all play Muggeridge. Kolodiejchuk thinks the book may act as an antidote to a cultural problem. "The tendency in our spiritual life but also in our more general attitude toward love is that our feelings are all that is going on," he says. "And so to us the totality of love is what we feel. But to really love someone requires commitment, fidelity and vulnerability. Mother Teresa wasn't 'feeling' Christ's love, and she could have shut down. But she was up at 4:30 every morning for Jesus, and still writing to him, 'Your happiness is all I want.' That's a powerful example even if you are not talking in exclusively religious terms." America's Martin wants to talk precisely in religious terms. "Everything she's experiencing," he says, "is what average believers experience in their spiritual lives writ large. I have known scores of people who have felt abandoned by God and had doubts about God's existence. And this book expresses that in such a stunning way but shows her full of complete trust at the same time." He takes a breath. "Who would have thought that the person who was considered the most faithful woman in the world struggled like that with her faith?" he asks. "And who would have thought that the one thought to be the most ardent of believers could be a saint to the skeptics?" Martin has long used Teresa as an example to parishioners of self-emptying love. Now, he says, he will use her extraordinary faith in the face of overwhelming silence to illustrate how doubt is a natural part of everyone's life, be it an average believer's or a world-famous saint's. Into the Light of Day Please destroy any letters or anything I have written. — to Picachy, April 1959 Consistent with her ongoing fight against pride, Teresa's rationale for suppressing her personal correspondence was "I want the work to remain only His." If the letters became public, she explained to Picachy, "people will think more of me — less of Jesus." The particularly holy are no less prone than the rest of us to misjudge the workings of history — or, if you will, of God's providence. Teresa considered the perceived absence of God in her life as her most shameful secret but eventually learned that it could be seen as a gift abetting her calling. If her worries about publicizing it also turn out to be misplaced — if a book of hasty, troubled notes turns out to ease the spiritual road of thousands of fellow believers, there would be no shame in having been wrong — but happily, even wonderfully wrong — twice. -- Marcus Aurelius: "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 14:54:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Diane DiPrima Subject: Re: Gate A4 in Albuquerque Airport and the Mamool Cookies: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Steve, My books and poetry broadsides were confiscated at the Canadian border in 1969 when I was going to do a reading at Simon Fraser University. True, the broadside had a photograph of Amiri Baraka and all caps "Poetry is Revolution" headline style. But still. My friend Irma Paule in NYC in 1966 had her tiny macrobiotic store and restaurant invaded, all the sacks of grain etc. cut open and poured on the floor and insecticide sprayed on them. Then she was arrested because selling books about using food as medicine in the same locale where you sold the same or similar foods constituted prescribing without an MD license. I worked at the Phoenix bookstore in NYC in the late 1950s and could have been arrested everytime I took a book by Henry Miller or Jean Genet or Alex Trocchi out of the back room for a customer (needless to say, the customer had to be someone we knew very well). My point, I guess, is that it's all been going on for a long time. This administration is particularly invidious, but aside from openly condoning torture and turning the entire globe into an American prison complex--none of the stuff is new. Yet. Not the stuff at the airports, anyway. It's good to fight it, but perhaps both surprise and indignation are luxuries we can no longer afford. Nye's piece is important because we need to hear everything we can that will give us heart. No way we'll be distracted by such stories--but one can only go so far on anger, however righteous, before hitting a wall. With love & solidarity Diane di Prima . > From: Stephen Vincent > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 12:38:03 -0700 > To: > Subject: Re: Gate A4 in Albuquerque Airport and the Mamool Cookies: > > Yesterday afternoon - from a return flight from abroad - I went through > customs clearance in San Francisco. My partner was - for no apparent reason > - told to put her bags through the screener. While I waited for her to go > with relative ease through this process, I watched an entire Arab family of > six or seven have their bags open and thoroughly investigated - the agents > rifling through everything in each suitcase, asking questions about jars and > containers with spices, etc. > > At another, inspection station, I watched an agent take two books and a note > folder out of a man's brief case and then proceed to go through all the > pages of notes, and then leaf through the books. The uniformed inspector's > action gave me a very uncomfortable feeling - the sense of the State being > able to have the unquestionable right to go through private papers. I > suspect this is all done under the pretext that anyone is a potential > terrorist and its done for 'our' protection. > > There is that sense of that thin line - the crossing of which becomes an act > of state terrorism in which we are terrorized by these folks that are given > this authority. What happens to your notes and books, for example, if you > are found at the border to be carrying notes that are critical of the Bush > regime, or the Christian Church, etc. And if you happen to be an Arab > visitor, or Chinese, or...let alone a USA citizen ?? > > Nye's piece - kind as it is - does not go there. I wish that it would. > > Stephen V > http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 01:06:39 -0700 (PDT) >> From: patricia blair >> >> How easily we could choose a world like this. WHy don't we? Peace to >> you, Pat >> >> Friends, >> This may just make your day. >> Peace, >> Margaret >> ---------- >> Wandering Around an Albuquerque Airport Terminal >> by Naomi Shihab Nye >> >> After learning my flight was detained 4 hours, I heard the announcement: >> If anyone in the vicinity of gate 4-A understands any Arabic, please come >> to the gate immediately. >> >> Well -- one pauses these days. Gate 4-A was my own gate. I went there. An >> older woman in full traditional Palestinian dress, just like my grandma >> wore, was crumpled to the floor, wailing loudly. Help, said the flight >> service person. Talk to her. What is her problem? We told her the flight >> was going to be four hours late and she did this. >> >> I put my arm around her and spoke to her haltingly. Shu dow-a,shu-biduck >> habibti, stani stani schway, min fadlick, sho bit se-wee? The minute she >> heard my words she knew -- however poorly used -- she stopped crying. She >> thought our flight had been cancelled entirely. She needed to be in El >> Paso for some major medical treatment the following day. I said no, no, >> we're fine, you'll get there, just late, who is picking you up? Let's call >> him and tell him. We called her son and I spoke with him in English. >> >> I told him I would stay with his mother till we got on the plane and would >> ride next to her. She talked to him. Then we called her other sons just >> for the fun of it. Then we called my dad and he and she spoke for a while >> in Arabic and found out of course they had ten shared friends. Then I >> thought just for the heck of it why not call some Palestinian poets I know >> and let them chat with her. >> >> This all took up about 2 hours. She was laughing a lot by then. Telling >> about her life. Answering questions. >> >> She had pulled a sack of homemade mamool cookies -- little powdered sugar >> crumbly mounds stuffed with dates and nuts -- out of her bag and was >> offering them to all the women at the gate. To my amazement, not a single >> woman declined one. It was like a sacrament. The traveler from Argentina, >> the traveler from California, the lovely woman from Laredo -- we were all >> covered with the same powdered sugar. And smiling. There are no better >> cookies. >> >> And then the airline broke out the free beverages from huge coolers -- >> non-alcoholic -- and the two little girls for our flight, one >> African-American, one Mexican-American -- ran around serving us all apple >> juice and lemonade and they were covered with powdered sugar, too. And I >> noticed my new best friend -- by now we were holding hands -- had a potted >> plant poking out of her bag, some medicinal thing, with green furry >> leaves. Such an old country traveling tradition. Always carry a plant. >> Always stay rooted to somewhere. And I looked around that gate of late and >> weary ones and thought, this is the world I want to live in. The shared >> world. Not a single person in this gate -- once the crying of confusion >> stopped -- has seemed apprehensive about any other person. They took the >> cookies. I wanted to hug all those other women, too. This can still >> happen, anywhere. >> >> Not everything is lost. >> >> Naomi Shihab Nye is an American poet of Palestinian background. >> >> The Rev. Mike Kinman >> Executive Director, Episcopalians for Global Reconciliation >> MKinman@gmail.com + 314.348.6453 + www.e4gr.org + >> http://revmikek.blogspot.com >> "The alleviation of material suffering in the world and the spiritual >> renewal of the church go hand in hand." >> -The Rev. Dr. Sabina Alkire >> >> >> = ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 23:58:04 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Jones Subject: Re: Poems from Guant=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E1namo?= In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Just caught the end of an interview on Al Jazeera English with a former detainee Martin ? about this book. Have any of the North American mainstream propaganda machines given this any time? On 8/23/07, Jim Andrews wrote: > > If you mean the arguments around the book should be taken seriously, I > > agree. If you mean the poetry should be taken seriously, I disagree. > > Firstly, most of these poems, as I understand the situation, were not > > written by poets. Thus, for a poet to take them seriously is like a > > cosmologist taking the Book of Genesis seriously. Further, even > > those that > > may have been written by persons of talent, they are not their > > poems, but > > fabrications made up by the military. The real poems and stories > > we will get > > someday when these people are free to write them and publish them without > > being censored by the very people who tortured them. You are > > right that it > > does raise interesting questions, but political ones, not poetic ones. > > > > -Joel > > my intuition is that you're mistaken, joel. > > what's interesting in contemporary poetry, to me, is not usually the > well-crafted poem. though that can be interesting. > > there are books being created now, such as ken goldsmith's work and, say, > kervinen's "(no subject)" that are of real interest but are quite different > from the well-crafted poem or novel or book. > > just about everything is unsaid. i'm not sure what's really interesting > about all poetry is what's said. instead, it can be the inroads it makes > into the unsaid. > > books are often famous not for what they say but as materializations of or > testaments to a situation or time or to people or peoples etc. or as objects > emblematic of a concept. > > poets, when they are famous, are sometimes famous not so much for their > poetry as their place in a network or a movement or a demographic or > whatever. > > part of what is significant in poetry is the nature of its intensities of > language, its relations with language, the way that language and its > contemporary states are drawn into the vortex of the poem or book or site or > whatever the manifestation of the language/poetry is. > > the poems from guantanamo--the poems themselves and also the whole frame, > the whole situation--should be of deep concern, particularly in the usa. > poetry detained. poetry is detained not only in the usa but in other western > countries. not only poetry but art and thought. by the authorities? well > usually we are our own authorities, aren't we. > > you speak of "the real poems and stories" as opposed to the "fabrications > made up by the military". it's of course true that the poems and stories in > the book are tortured by the military. > > but perhaps what is significant is not the authenticity of the poems but the > nature of their inauthenticity. perhaps what is significant is not the poems > themselves, authentic or inauthentic but the whole complex of the situation, > situated as art. i know it is more of a sort of approach generally > associated with visual art than literary art, but it has its usefulness. in > this case, it allows us to see significance where a more traditional > literary approach to the well-crafted poem leaves us in a situation where, > as you say, we can only see the significance of the book in political terms, > not in relation to art and language. > > ja > http://vispo.com > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 18:38:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: skipping and ghost-traps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed skipping and ghost-traps skipping as the third walk/run/skip gait - where is OUR ethnography of skipping BUT radio waves - shortwaves, spherics, whistlers: ionosopheric skipping in the samples here, the GROUND of the crystal radio is connected to the ANTENNA of a second crystal radio the OUTPUT of the first (large loose coupler) c.r. connects to the INPUT of a VLF (very low frequency) radio the OUTPUT of the VLF radio connects to the INPUT of a minidisk recorder the two crystal radios operate with DIODES and COILS: INDUCTORs the COILS are ghost-traps absorbing everything within their spectral range nothing but wound wire self-inducting, mutually inducting, everything around they capture invisible spirits how close to the speed of light _mdos_ or 'thread-cross' 'In other cases the _mdos_ fulfills the same purpose as a _gtor ma_; it provides a temporary abode for a deity.' 'The patches of wood which are often attached to the sticks forming the _mdos_ are in this case supposed to represent the clouds floating around the heavenly abode.' (Oracles and Demons of Tibet, The Cult and Iconography of the Tibetan Protective Deities, Rene deNebesky-Wojkowitz, Paljor, 1998) the RANGE appears to cover the medium-wave (AM) band as well as somewhat above and below it. http://www.asondheim.org/cryr1.jpg and http://www.asondheim.org/cryr2.jpg = images of the circuitry http://www.asondheim.org/dean0.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/dean1.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/dean2.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/dean3.jpg = our happy home; we are on the third floor of what has become (thanks to the RATNER PROJECT) an URBAN WASTELAND. you can SEE OUR ROOF BUT YOU CAN'T SEE OUR WIRES the sound files: http://www.asondheim.org/rrr1.wav sample wa file with interesting content to be use http://www.asondheim.org/rr3hiss.wav this is a second output file with a hiss filter applied in such a manner that everything but the hiss is filtered out the result is a radio background soundtrack with quite interesting phases shifts and other phenomena http://www.asondheim.org/rrr4.wav a third file again with interesting content presented 'straight' there is are some changes as a result of switching wires but what's of great interest (that word again) is the tremolo (using a galena crystal instead of a diode) as well as a high-pitched signal and other background materials http://www.asondheim.org/rrr4hiss.wav the same filel with hiss only remaining http://www.asondheim.org/rrr4hissminus.wav the same file with hiss removed http://www.asondheim.org/maple.jpg a closeup of our japanese maple which oversees everything ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 15:24:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Re: Poems from Guant=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E1namo?= In-Reply-To: <576480.97766.qm@web31109.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On the contrary, I think discussions around a poem can be extremely importa= nt. On the one hand, they can elevate a work to the Canon--and on the other to the scrap heaps of history-- or simply to nowhere-- The fragments-- and even a poem--by Sappho, found inside the wrappings of tenth rate mummies thrown on to the smoldering dusty heaps of ancient waste dumps, scuttling about for centuries in the raggedy winds of battering and forgetful histories-- The Israelis withholding the entrance into Gaza of this year's school supplies--no paper, no pens, erasers, inks, textbooks, notebooks--for any young Palestinian to write a poem!--Let alone read one, study about them--except to resort to scratching them in the dirt, learningthem by memory--shipping the young poets off to some other period of the creation of poetry--outside the "civilized" present-- One book of Guantanamo Poetry is enough, don't you think?--Can't allow too much sympathy in the outside world for the hordes of confined and tortured "suspects" can we now? Something i think about often is there may have been throughout history and are still--many truly great, gifted, visionary poets, artists, of all kinds--who were and are not allowed to learn to read or write, use paints, clay, express themselves in song, dance or oral poetry-- Given that women have been so long excluded from learning writing, painting, sculpture, music, any of the arts--or, even when allowed, confined to the realm of the domestic expression of these through "accomplishments" such as playing the piano nicely, or as "handi-work,"handicrafts" "pastimes"--or confined to "lower forms" of the various arts--"excellent cooks" but not "chefs", "seamstresses" but not Tailors for the VIP--"good at decorating the home" but never Interior Designer to the So and Sos--great stenographers but never Lawyer, Poet, Entrepreneur-- how many poets and artists were never even given the means of expression let alone allowed to take their "minor" contributions outside of the house or family circle? How many geniuses toiled as slaves through history--prohibited from any learning--how many whose ethnic or religious or economic group not allowed to participate in any way in any form of the cultural? Or--creating works, not having the works recognized--not just the great poets and artists unrecognized in their own time, but the progenitors of Art Brut--their work consigned to the looney bin, the prison, or simply as being the eccentricities of "common folk." For there to be the poem to consider in the first place, there has to have been a route by which it is allowed to arrive at this state. "Allowed" because as one knows, many works were never allowed to arrive anywhere until much later or far from their sites of origin. And many are never allowed to arrive anywhere at all. Not even on a piece of paper or papyrus or clay tablet. There also along the way has to be for many works the recognition brought to bear by another poet, artist, who can see and hear and think through the layerings of obscurities covering up the work deep inside, almost lost in space and time--a Breton discovering Lautreamont in the Paris Library, a Jean Dubuffet with the vision of Art Brut--and before him, Prinzhorn and his Artistry of the Mentally Ill, a Picasso bring African art into the conscioussness of modern Western Art--the examples of such findings are a very great many. An immense matrix may be involved with the poem--its being made in the first place, then read--by a reader who recognizes it as a poem. The routes and methods, quantities, qualities of the modes of publishing, distributing, promoting or not--the poem. Which person first brings it to the attention of others--"now HERE is a POEM!!"--well if critic/blogger BIG says this--suddenly many somnolent heads look up and eager arms reach out to get hold of a copy of that POEM! If critic/blogger small says 'now here is a poem" (smaller case in keeping with the much smaller voice-range of the voice)--then who the heck really cares? Say the poem does make its way out into the world and have something of it enough to garner a bit of attention--well--then where does one put this poem, this poet--within the types of poetry being made, the heirarchies within those types--and within those ever smaller circles--once properly placed--how does this immediately alter the poem--in terms of how many read it once classified--and how it is read by this group of people--coming to it with a pre-conception of the poem's type--what to expect, to demand, to subject it to--by what selective criteria to"weigh it"--determine it's "value"-- You see, this is all a very serious "business"! The incomes of many Deciders, teachers, publishers, printers, web masters, bookstore owners, libraries, depend on it!! And poets, too! Because this whole industry--this serious business-- of Decidings--in itself creates an audience--some classifications being "better" than others to be sure--depending on the ideologies of writing and reading of the times. George Bush often calls himself "the Decider" ("That's my job. To Decide. To be the Decider.") This is also the role often assigned to the Authorities, the Deciders, whom one places varying degrees of trust in in re poetry, the poem. The BIG critic/blogger. Silliman gives it two thumbs up!!! Bernstein says wow! Perloff places it in the context of Radical Displacements within the Dewey decimal System and so forth. Harold Bloom says a jeremiad. So and so is tickled pink. And some else is calling out for takeout, a real down home celebration of the true thing come home at last. Or one turns to yet other BIGs--the ones one prefers. AHHH! The BIG one says this book is the shit! You bet I'm gonna buy it! I just know it will be great! And yes, it won't be too long and there will be an other and yet another one one just has to have! That "poetry fix"!-- You see--it is indeed serious business-which poems one buys to consume--to own--to get a fix--or build a library--of the right poems!!--the good ones, the ones worth, yes, worth reading!!! one must after all expect some sort of return on one's investment----whether a quick fix--or a nice long shelf of the poems that "really matter to me"--and do so indeed, right there, in all their materiality as chunks of matter--"you can always use it for a door stopper"---"or throw it at the mice"-- All this while the poem is picking up steam, or losing gas--or "really taking off, mark it with a bullet". Or else on the one way lonely walk back to Palookaville. Even in regards to the poet who wrote it--what is the life of the poem? Does it end up in the waste basket, used for wrapping up a fig for later, shoved into the parrakeet's cage in place of another old poem, now covered with excrements? Does it sit forever in the hard drive, or on the can--or actually get shipped off someplace? And does a poem even live the life the poet would want it to? Might not a poem indeed have lives and skies of its own as Petra Backonja writes in an essay, "The Lives they Wish"? The poem may have for itself quite another life in mind than that rather humdrum classifiable one planned by the poet! And not care a rap about the BIGS and smalls --or the poet----at all and take off for quite some other destination entirely--finding its own company-- Running into a Dubbuffet of its own choosing perhaps someday--and teaching him a thing or two--or--going underground--or--simply "blending in" among people at a bus stop on a rainy day-- On the one hand the discussion around a poem can very greatly determine the actual existence of the poem--and by extension, that of the poet, where and when and how they will be placed, seated at the banquet, or at the picnic table, or outside the fence, looking in at the gay revelers-- Will the poem "arrive" in a place where it wil be read?--and read by whom? and with what methods of reading? in what spaces of reading find itself being handled ?--what responses receiving?--in what media?--and for how long?-- Or will it--not arrive anywhere-- and the poet maybe not even arriving at the writing of a poem, though filled with poems-- and on the other hand--the poem may not at all have this life as "the poem" that the poet might want it to have--or the BIGS and smalls-- and go off to find its own places visible or invisible in the world-- leaving the poet to hang on to her or his seat in the tenuous waiting rooms= -- among the others awaiting their turn in court-- the tennis court, the kangaroo court, night court, criminal court, court of public opinion, Royal Court, divorce court, Military Tribunal, the Court of Last Resort---the courting of Dame Fortune and Fame--- clutching a document where a poem used to be-- claiming to be a poet-- "When traveling to a town new to you--take a good look at the faces of the people on their way back from it" --French Proverb (If there are any people coming back from it--) Is that really a place anyone might want to go--any poem-any poet?-- Is it for one to decide--or for others--??? Or various compromises, negotiations, diplomacies, tributes paid, bribes proffered, to work out some "some form of agreement"--- Necessity is the motherfucker of invention---and--whose necessities--may invent further circumstances-- On 8/24/07, Thomas savage wrote: > I disagree that discussions around any poem are as important as the poem = itself. The poem or poems always take precedence over any verbal (live or = in print) emanation which emerges as a result of their existence and is thu= s obviously dependent upon it. As someone who writes poetry constantly and= only occasionally criticism (usually reviews,only occasionally of poetry, = available at Tribes.org), I don't see expository writing about poetry as be= ing all that important, anyway. The discussions on these listservs ( this = one and Wryting-L) are entertaining and often informative but the poems the= mselves are ultimately what I and I believe all of us are truly about. Reg= ards, Tom Savage > > "Tom W. Lewis" wrote: fyi (I've probably menti= oned this here before): > > "poet, poem, poetry" derive from the Greek poiein, "to make", also "to ca= use, effect, create, render, grow, produce, invent..." > > Greek pots were often signed by their makers "X me epoien" -- "X made me" > > I bring this etymology forward to our time by seeing poetic work as a mad= e thing, a crafted object -- while you can become a master craftsperson thr= ough diligent study of the way objects like this are made, someone else can= just as easily pick up a lump of clay and mold their own pot with the same= tools (their hands) as the master -- the result will be different from the= master's, but (theoretically) it will still carry water. > > based on this line of reasoning, the act of writing a poem makes the auth= or a poet. > > does this fit with what Maria is saying in her comment, or am I off on my= own simplistic tangent? > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] O= n Behalf Of Maria Damon > Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 8:32 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Poems from Guant=E1namo > > i am uncomfortable with the aesthetic hierarchy espoused here, reified > in the word "talent." it is true that such a thing does and does not > exist, but it is certainly not the only, or the most salient, criterion > by which we determine whether something has worth. to reify the person > of the "poet," is , to my mind, even more dangerous. talk about > policing! i do agree, though, that discussions around the poetry is at > least as important as the poetry itself, but i might argue this about > any "poem." > > Joel Weishaus wrote: > > Mairead; > > > > If you mean the arguments around the book should be taken seriously, I > > agree. If you mean the poetry should be taken seriously, I disagree. > > Firstly, most of these poems, as I understand the situation, were not > > written by poets. Thus, for a poet to take them seriously is like a > > cosmologist taking the Book of Genesis seriously. Further, even those t= hat > > may have been written by persons of talent, they are not their poems, b= ut > > fabrications made up by the military. The real poems and stories we wil= l get > > someday when these people are free to write them and publish them witho= ut > > being censored by the very people who tortured them. You are right that= it > > does raise interesting questions, but political ones, not poetic ones. > > > > -Joel > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > From: Mairead Byrne > > Date: Aug 22, 2007 9:49 PM > > Subject: Re: Poems from Guant=E1namo > > To: POETICS@listserv.buffalo.edu > > > > > > I find the claim that this book shouldn't be taken seriously, > > "certainly not by poets," to be extraordinary. The extent to which > > this book is embroiled in economic realities, both publishing and > > political, offers a very strong invitation to this poet, at least, to > > take it seriously. Joel, why do you say the book shouldn't be taken > > seriously, "certainly not by poets"? Its publication by the > > University of Iowa Press, in today's America, and the stated history > > of its publication path make it very interesting to think and talk > > about, in my view; as does the tension between the stated and very > > visible challenges to its meaning, and all the less visible and > > apprehensible challenges. It's like a cup which has lost every single > > drop of poetry, except one maybe -- or even just the smell of poetry > > in its pores. Or maybe it's just a cup which, because it has been > > used to carry poetry, someone is still willing to carry. There is > > meaning, maybe not centrally located. In the short essays, it's > > clear how compromised the book is, yet it speaks. Not fluently, but > > fluently. The dialogue between poetry and government in this book is > > a scrap of reality, a broken but not worthless thing. Why should the > > book not be taken seriously, "certainly not by poets"? It is a > > product of the economies we work in, and raises many useful questions > > about poetry for me, even at the level of nostalgia for a genre. I > > don't have the book in front of me as I write, but I've read it. I > > can return to the questions it raised for me later. > > Mairead > > > > > >>>> weishaus@PDX.EDU 08/22/07 12:51 PM >>> > >>>> > > David: > > > > I don't find this review strange, but right to the point. You have to > > be living in an alternative universe to think that this book > > represents the real feelings of the prisoners. Not only was it > > censored, but the original language wasn't allowed to be published, on > > the pretense that it contains secret messages! What could the secret > > message possibly be from someone in prison for so many years? One > > wonders if this is paranoia, playacting, or just plain stupidity. > > In any case, I think the review is basically sound, and that this book > > should not be taken seriously, certainly not by poets! If I have any > > problems with the review, it's with the author's contention that a > > poem can't reveal the reality of one's life. I think the opposite is > > true, only not in the case of this book. > > > > Best, > > Joel Weishaus > > > > > > Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 07:59:18 -0700 > > From: David Chirot > > Subject: Poems From Guant=3D?ISO-8859-1?Q?=3DE1namo:?=3D The Detainees = S > > peak - Books - Review - New York Times > > > > this is a rather strange review-- > > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/19/books/review/Chiasson-t.html?_r=3D1&r= ef=3Dbooks&oref=3Dslogin > > --- > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! = TV. > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 16:01:36 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Surveillance Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Today I received my bill from AT&T with this interesting Brand or Tagline on the envelope: "AT&T - the most complete provider for the way you live." Interesting, and more than a bit spooky, in light of the current court cases against AT&T and the Government on account of the company's cooperation with the Department of Homeland Security in the warrant less surveillance of phone calls and emails. (If not, the info is easily Googled.) That word "provider" - in the sense of provision - in terms of surveillance (i.e., total invasion of privacy without permission) is curious. Time - as these suits suggest -to put Providence (Cheney, Bush, et al) on something more than probation, certainly under public and judicial surveillance. Or consider "surveillance" as one of the objects of poet and poem. To witness, etc. Stephen V http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 18:38:14 -0500 Reply-To: dgodston@sbcglobal.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Godston Subject: fonts, typewriters, page design, & printing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Can any of you recommend some good books & other sources about fonts, typewriters, page design, & printing? I just bought Darren Wershler-Henry's "The Iron Whim: A Fragmented History of Typewriting," just started it. Here's the NPR interview with DWH: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=12900006. Jaroslav Andel's "Avant-Garde Page Design 1900-1950" is an amazing book, and so is Steven Clay & Rodney Phillips' "A Secret Location on the Lower East Side." Then there's "Helvetica," the movie: http://www.helveticafilm.com/. Thanks, Dan ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 00:04:53 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tim Peterson Subject: CALL FOR PAPERS: CRITIPHORIA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello everyone...I'm resending this CFP for Critiphoria, which is a little = more fleshed-out after further discussion today.Best, Tim* * * * CRITIPHORIA A Journal of Poetry and Criticism Edited by Stephen Paul Miller, Tim Peterson, and Cecilia Wu Contributing Editors: Denise Duhamel, Peter Frank, Karen Alkaly-Gut, Bob Ho= lman, Maria Damon, Carolee Schneemann, David Shapiro. Critiphoria is a journal partially funded by St. Johns University which seeks submissions of "poetry-criticism" in all its forms for a first issue to be published in late 2007. This new journal will energize poetry and criticism through one another, exploring their intersection in the possibility of a "third genre" that grows out of such precedents as Charles Bernstein's "Artifice of Absorption," Stephen Paul Miller's poem reviews and essay/lectures, Lyn Hejinian's poetic nonfiction, David Antin's talk poems, and a variety of dialogic critical-poetic objects (we enthusiastically anticipate new models). We will publish essays in poetic form, essays using poetic methodology, poems with critical content, "poetry-criticism," essays concerning poetry-criticism, statements about poetic production. We also invite items of a more general nature pertinent to these topics, including essays, poems, visual art, vispo, audio, and e-poetry. Submissions may include a statement concerning the submission and how it concerns dynamic interaction between poetry and criticism. Critiphoria will appear at http://www.critiphoria.org, and a print edition = will also be published. Subscriptions are $20/two issues. Email submissions= or other correspondence to the editors: Stephen Paul Miller, Tim Peterson, and Cecilia Wu at critiphoria@g= mail.com. =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 = ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 18:21:32 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: Philomene Long died MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Philomene Long (married to poet John Thomas), author of Queen of Bohemia, Cold Eye Burning at 3 am, and many other books and chapbooks, and one of the seminal members of the Venice beat community just died. That's all the info. I have right now, but I will be looking around for memorial service info., etc. -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly@gmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 20:58:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: eric unger Subject: Re: listenlight new issue 11 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Thanks for including Mr. Damian Weber's Blackbird Haikus in this issue Mr. Crockett! His work needs more exposure. Good work sir. Eric Unger On 8/23/07, Clay Banes wrote: > jesse, i hate to edit you, but it's never "the hoi polloi." > > On 8/23/07, J Crockett wrote: > > "Back to basics" > > > > > > featuring works by --- > > > > doctors, lawyers, and the hoi polloi > > > > > > http://listenlight.net > > > > > -- > EYEBALL HATRED > http://claytonbanes.blogspot.com/ > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 19:13:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: J Crockett Subject: A cool thing about me... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I can insert 100 left-margin xhtml line breaks in 10 seconds, no right-clicking or searchnreplaces or macrofunctions involved. (So the page source looks competent to other web designers, who count for one third of non-peak direct traffic.) Yes, that is one cool thing you know about me. And it follows, I must tell you two cool things about other people. Someone says she's an "amateur photographer." She is capable of borrowing your soul on that day. Someone says he's an "intermediate" chess player. He is capable of mopping the floor with you. Also, when I require a "stronger objection" to my edition of your works, And then you do, then why don't you have an MFA? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 09:31:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Gate A4 in Albuquerque Airport and the Mamool Cookies: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Diane, Your email brings back the '60s in a real way--of course it was mixed--and as I remember you are talking in a film about the Beats about how the repercussions were different (harder) for women then--another reality. Thank you for the complexity. Ruth On 8/24/07 5:54 PM, "Diane DiPrima" wrote: > Steve, > > My books and poetry broadsides were confiscated at the Canadian border in > 1969 when I was going to do a reading at Simon Fraser University. True, the > broadside had a photograph of Amiri Baraka and all caps "Poetry is > Revolution" headline style. But still. > > My friend Irma Paule in NYC in 1966 had her tiny macrobiotic store and > restaurant invaded, all the sacks of grain etc. cut open and poured on the > floor and insecticide sprayed on them. Then she was arrested because selling > books about using food as medicine in the same locale where you sold the > same or similar foods constituted prescribing without an MD license. > > I worked at the Phoenix bookstore in NYC in the late 1950s and could have > been arrested everytime I took a book by Henry Miller or Jean Genet or Alex > Trocchi out of the back room for a customer (needless to say, the customer > had to be someone we knew very well). > > My point, I guess, is that it's all been going on for a long time. This > administration is particularly invidious, but aside from openly condoning > torture and turning the entire globe into an American prison complex--none > of the stuff is new. Yet. Not the stuff at the airports, anyway. > > It's good to fight it, but perhaps both surprise and indignation are > luxuries we can no longer afford. > > Nye's piece is important because we need to hear everything we can that will > give us heart. No way we'll be distracted by such stories--but one can only > go so far on anger, however righteous, before hitting a wall. > > With love & solidarity > > Diane di Prima > > > . > >> From: Stephen Vincent >> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >> Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 12:38:03 -0700 >> To: >> Subject: Re: Gate A4 in Albuquerque Airport and the Mamool Cookies: >> >> Yesterday afternoon - from a return flight from abroad - I went through >> customs clearance in San Francisco. My partner was - for no apparent reason >> - told to put her bags through the screener. While I waited for her to go >> with relative ease through this process, I watched an entire Arab family of >> six or seven have their bags open and thoroughly investigated - the agents >> rifling through everything in each suitcase, asking questions about jars and >> containers with spices, etc. >> >> At another, inspection station, I watched an agent take two books and a note >> folder out of a man's brief case and then proceed to go through all the >> pages of notes, and then leaf through the books. The uniformed inspector's >> action gave me a very uncomfortable feeling - the sense of the State being >> able to have the unquestionable right to go through private papers. I >> suspect this is all done under the pretext that anyone is a potential >> terrorist and its done for 'our' protection. >> >> There is that sense of that thin line - the crossing of which becomes an act >> of state terrorism in which we are terrorized by these folks that are given >> this authority. What happens to your notes and books, for example, if you >> are found at the border to be carrying notes that are critical of the Bush >> regime, or the Christian Church, etc. And if you happen to be an Arab >> visitor, or Chinese, or...let alone a USA citizen ?? >> >> Nye's piece - kind as it is - does not go there. I wish that it would. >> >> Stephen V >> http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 01:06:39 -0700 (PDT) >>> From: patricia blair >>> >>> How easily we could choose a world like this. WHy don't we? Peace to >>> you, Pat >>> >>> Friends, >>> This may just make your day. >>> Peace, >>> Margaret >>> ---------- >>> Wandering Around an Albuquerque Airport Terminal >>> by Naomi Shihab Nye >>> >>> After learning my flight was detained 4 hours, I heard the announcement: >>> If anyone in the vicinity of gate 4-A understands any Arabic, please come >>> to the gate immediately. >>> >>> Well -- one pauses these days. Gate 4-A was my own gate. I went there. An >>> older woman in full traditional Palestinian dress, just like my grandma >>> wore, was crumpled to the floor, wailing loudly. Help, said the flight >>> service person. Talk to her. What is her problem? We told her the flight >>> was going to be four hours late and she did this. >>> >>> I put my arm around her and spoke to her haltingly. Shu dow-a,shu-biduck >>> habibti, stani stani schway, min fadlick, sho bit se-wee? The minute she >>> heard my words she knew -- however poorly used -- she stopped crying. She >>> thought our flight had been cancelled entirely. She needed to be in El >>> Paso for some major medical treatment the following day. I said no, no, >>> we're fine, you'll get there, just late, who is picking you up? Let's call >>> him and tell him. We called her son and I spoke with him in English. >>> >>> I told him I would stay with his mother till we got on the plane and would >>> ride next to her. She talked to him. Then we called her other sons just >>> for the fun of it. Then we called my dad and he and she spoke for a while >>> in Arabic and found out of course they had ten shared friends. Then I >>> thought just for the heck of it why not call some Palestinian poets I know >>> and let them chat with her. >>> >>> This all took up about 2 hours. She was laughing a lot by then. Telling >>> about her life. Answering questions. >>> >>> She had pulled a sack of homemade mamool cookies -- little powdered sugar >>> crumbly mounds stuffed with dates and nuts -- out of her bag and was >>> offering them to all the women at the gate. To my amazement, not a single >>> woman declined one. It was like a sacrament. The traveler from Argentina, >>> the traveler from California, the lovely woman from Laredo -- we were all >>> covered with the same powdered sugar. And smiling. There are no better >>> cookies. >>> >>> And then the airline broke out the free beverages from huge coolers -- >>> non-alcoholic -- and the two little girls for our flight, one >>> African-American, one Mexican-American -- ran around serving us all apple >>> juice and lemonade and they were covered with powdered sugar, too. And I >>> noticed my new best friend -- by now we were holding hands -- had a potted >>> plant poking out of her bag, some medicinal thing, with green furry >>> leaves. Such an old country traveling tradition. Always carry a plant. >>> Always stay rooted to somewhere. And I looked around that gate of late and >>> weary ones and thought, this is the world I want to live in. The shared >>> world. Not a single person in this gate -- once the crying of confusion >>> stopped -- has seemed apprehensive about any other person. They took the >>> cookies. I wanted to hug all those other women, too. This can still >>> happen, anywhere. >>> >>> Not everything is lost. >>> >>> Naomi Shihab Nye is an American poet of Palestinian background. >>> >>> The Rev. Mike Kinman >>> Executive Director, Episcopalians for Global Reconciliation >>> MKinman@gmail.com + 314.348.6453 + www.e4gr.org + >>> http://revmikek.blogspot.com >>> "The alleviation of material suffering in the world and the spiritual >>> renewal of the church go hand in hand." >>> -The Rev. Dr. Sabina Alkire >>> >>> >>> = ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 10:02:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Schlesinger Kyle Subject: Re: fonts, typewriters, page design, & printing Comments: To: dgodston@sbcglobal.net In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Even if you're not a type geek the Helvetica film will seduce you--great soundtrack to boot. There's a short bibliography on the DIY page at the Cuneiform Press site that I think people with a literary (rather than strictly graphic arts) background might enjoy. Charles Bernstein's Textual Conditions syllabus is a great 'survey' as well. Kyle ______________ Kyle Schlesinger www.kyleschlesinger.com www.cuneiformpress.com > From: Daniel Godston > Reply-To: > Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 18:38:14 -0500 > To: > Subject: fonts, typewriters, page design, & printing > > Hi, > > Can any of you recommend some good books & other sources about fonts, > typewriters, page design, & printing? > > I just bought Darren Wershler-Henry's "The Iron Whim: A Fragmented History > of Typewriting," just started it. Here's the NPR interview with DWH: > http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=12900006. > > Jaroslav Andel's "Avant-Garde Page Design 1900-1950" is an amazing book, and > so is Steven Clay & Rodney Phillips' "A Secret Location on the Lower East > Side." > > Then there's "Helvetica," the movie: http://www.helveticafilm.com/. > > Thanks, > > Dan ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 10:49:05 -0400 Reply-To: az421@freenet.carleton.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: new (slowly) from above/ground press Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT new (finally, slowly) from above/ground press ...as above/ground press slowly works its way through backlog... Heteroskeptical by Marcus McCann (Ottawa) $4 E l e a n o r by Amanda Earl (Ottawa) $4 the black prince of bank street by William Hawkins (Ottawa) $4 Marcus McCann is an editor and writer at Capital Xtra. His poetry debuted in the The Antigonish Review at age 18. He is the editor of theonionunion.com, a selector for Bywords and a former selector for Yawp. With Nicholas Lea and Andrew Faulkner, he is the author-translator of Basement Tapes (The Onion Union, 2007), a chapbook of homolinguistic translations. As winner of the 2005 University of Ottawa 48-Hour Novella Writing Contest, his So Long, Derrida (UESA, 2006) was published by the university. Heteroskeptical (above/ground press, 2007) is his first solo poetry chapbook. Amanda Earl's poems appeared most recently in ottawater.com 3.0, listenlight.net and the Ottawa Arts Review. Amanda is the managing editor of Bywords.ca and the Bywords Quarterly Journal. She blogs about literary stuff on amandaearl.blogspot.com and ottawapoetry.blogspot.com. She also writes fiction and has been published in anthologies with the word sex in them. William Hawkins was born in Ottawa. After side trips to the West Coast and Mexico, he resides in the Capital, pursuing enlightenment or a reasonable alternative thereto. Hawkins has worked as a truck driver, cook, journalist and musician before settling on the taxi profession as a means of preserving integrity and ensuring near-poverty. His collections of poems include Shoot Low, Sheriff, They're Riding Shetland Ponies (Ottawa), Two longer poems (Patrician Press, Toronto), Hawkins (Nil Press, Ottawa), Ottawa Poems (weed/flower press, Kitchener), The Gift of Space (New Press, Toronto) and The Madman's War (S.A.W. Publications, Ottawa). In 2005, a collection of his work, titled Dancing Alone: Selected Poems 1960-1990, was release by Broken Jaw Press (Fredericton) and cauldron books (Ottawa). He has also recorded a CD of his best songs titled Dancing Alone. To order any of these little books, add $1 for postage, & in Canadian currency; if sending from outside Canada, send in American, payable to rob mclennan, c/o 858 Somerset Street West, main floor, Ottawa, Ontario Canada K1R 6R7 (after September first, write rob c/o writer-in-residence, Department of English and Film Studies, University of Alberta, 3-5 Humanities Centre, Edmonton, AB T6G 2E5); above/ground press subscribers receive (honest!) a complimentary copy; calendar year subscriptions available for $40 (currently taking advance orders for 2008), & include chapbooks, broadsides, STANZAS magazine & The Peter F. Yacht Club. for more info and links, check out: http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/2007/08/new-finally-slowly-from-aboveground.html -- poet/editor/publisher ...STANZAS mag, above/ground press & Chaudiere Books (www.chaudierebooks.com) ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...13th poetry coll'n - The Ottawa City Project .... c/o 858 Somerset St W, Ottawa ON K1R 6R7 * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 08:37:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: re Surveillance: CCTV & "Laboratory for a Fortressed World" & Walls, Economics of Security MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline The article below re Surveillance and Security as "infotainment" is from yesterday-- a truly Orwellian reality being installed "right before our very eyes" as we both watch it and are recorded watching it for the benefit of the Powers that Be-- following that a blog entry that is accompanied by many images relatting with Security Surveillance etc-- and an article on the new economics of the Security and Surveillance technologies in which as article states Gaza is a Laboratory for the new Fortress World this is an ongoing theme, along with Walls works and related work, links, articles, images--at http://davidbaptistechirot.blogspot.com and ways in which visuality, vision, visual arts work along side/against/with the new technologies, archtitectures of Security-- Guardian Unlimited | Comment is free | Democracy's new dawn is on CCTV: the security state as infotainment http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,2155352,00.html --- Date: Jul 19, 2007 10:36 AM Subject: Re: "Laboratory for a Fortressed World" in relation with the "Walls" Works and Themes ongoing On 7/19/07, David Chirot wrote: (following this is the "Laboratory for a Fortressed World" article and link) > This is a fascinating article and has a lot of relationship with the works and themes to do with aspects of Walls at this blog.The terrifying aspects of Walls are in danger of greatly multiplying globally--from heavily secured and guarded gated communities to their counterparts, the huge prisons of Gaza and West Bank, to the privatization of the "Prison Industry" in the United States, "reservations" for indigenous populations in USA, Canada and elsewhere, to the construction of ever more tightly controlled and secured borders, checkpoints, entrances to public and private buildings, helicopter surveillances of ghetto areas, satelite systems, cameras posted on city wide street corners and other vantage points on to the non-stop work of legal and illegal intrusion into electronic files, records, links. > The production of security and surveillance--whose security--and what may not be "doctored" in the "recordings" and "files"? At what point does "making visible" cross over into "rendering invisible"--fron "rendition flights" to secret torture chambers to the mass erasure of former legal boundaries by "redrawing the lines" with Walls, bulldozers, tanks, drones, surveillance "eyes in the skies" of ever greater power and definition? > To "see" becomes a way literally for "looks that can kill" to be operative at the push of a button. (Robot eyes that will be implanted in the "Seperation" Wall so that there is no need of paying for fallible human eyes and hands to fire guns, rockets--all will be accomplished "automatically".) > Walls are also a way to "hide from view" the torture and imprisonment of "undesireable aliens" who may be continually redefined as such using the most arbitrary of markers--"contagious", "addict" "poor" "defective motor/mental development" "inferior ethnic group" "person with beliefs contrary to the common good" "terror suspect" "dissident"-already the media are used as a tool in this conflict--naming, targeting, creating "persons of fear"/"to be feared"--and the time is now for the development of the Incorporation of New Mercenaries such as Blackwater and the "clean up and recovery" operations of Haliburton, Bechtel and others. One can buy both the creations of disasters and their subsequent "remodelings" into "new communities", "new vacation playgrounds", "new development areas". > And in order for al these operations to exist, there needs to be the continual creation of Fear throughout ever more strati of society. Thus the creation of not only more Wars, but more Permanent Wars--Wars on Poverty, Wars on Drugs, Wars on Terror--all Wars Without End which require a continual upgrade and production of surveillance, Walls, machines, death. > Think about it: the ulimate "product" of human activity becomes ever more geared to the "creation" of death. > "Where life had no value, death had its price." as the titles say at the opening of Sergio Leone's For a Few Dollars More. "And that is why the bounty hunters began to appear." The Bounty Hunters being anything from privatized companies to the police and armies, weapons and surveillance of the State--the greatest Terrorists of them all. > > Cocteau noted that "the cinema films death at work". Walls become a site behind which the work vanishes, is locked away, hidden from "the eyes of the world"--while an other "projection" is played on the surfaces of the "society of the spectacle", one of "safety" for the "pursuit of happiness" of gated communities and countries, corporations. > The Little Milton song says "If Walls Could Talk"--so it is one essays the finding and presenting of "Talking Walls" and of other forms of "The Writing on the Wall" as ways to create cracks in the Walls, their crumblings, their totterings and collapses . . . of other such writers and activists---so that Walls will become something other than "seperation" in all senses of the word . . . Heraclitus posits something Other, beyond, outside which "sees all", one aspect of which is awareness--so cracks are the beginnings of finding the travel to awarness hidden in plain site/sight/cite which no Walls can seperate-- "One cannot hide from that which never sets"-- > The article below is viewable on the web at: > > http://www.pacbi.org/boycott_news.php?id=P538 > > Laboratory for a Fortressed World > > Gaza in the hands of Hamas, with masked militants sitting in the president's chair; the West Bank on the edge; Israeli army camps hastily assembled in the Golan Heights; a spy satellite over Iran and Syria; war with Hezbollah a hair trigger away; a scandal-plagued political class facing a total loss of public faith. > > At a glance, things aren't going well for Israel. But here's a puzzle: Why, in the midst of such chaos and carnage, is the Israeli economy booming like it's 1999, with a roaring stock market and growth rates nearing China's? > > Thomas Friedman recently offered his theory in the New York Times. Israel "nurtures and rewards individual imagination," and so its people are constantly spawning ingenious high-tech start-ups--no matter what messes their politicians are making. After perusing class projects by students in engineering and computer science at Ben Gurion University, Friedman made one of his famous fake-sense pronouncements: Israel "had discovered oil." This oil, apparently, is located in the minds of Israel's "young innovators and venture capitalists," who are too busy making megadeals with Google to be held back by politics. > > Here's another theory: Israel's economy isn't booming despite the political chaos that devours the headlines but because of it. This phase of development dates back to the mid-'90s, when Israel was in the vanguard of the information revolution--the most tech-dependent economy in the world. After the dot-com bubble burst in 2000, Israel's economy was devastated, facing its worst year since 1953. Then came 9/11, and suddenly new profit vistas opened up for any company that claimed it could spot terrorists in crowds, seal borders from attack and extract confessions from closed-mouthed prisoners. > > Within three years, large parts of Israel's tech economy had been radically repurposed. Put in Friedmanesque terms: Israel went from inventing the networking tools of the "flat world" to selling fences to an apartheid planet. Many of the country's most successful entrepreneurs are using Israel's status as a fortressed state, surrounded by furious enemies, as a kind of twenty-four-hour-a-day showroom--a living example of how to enjoy relative safety amid constant war. And the reason Israel is now enjoying supergrowth is that those companies are busily exporting that model to the world. > > Discussions of Israel's military trade usually focus on the flow of weapons into the country--US-made Caterpillar bulldozers used to destroy homes in the West Bank and British companies supplying parts for F-16s. Overlooked is Israel's huge and expanding export business. Israel now sends $1.2 billion in "defense" products to the United States--up dramatically from $270 million in 1999. In 2006 Israel exported $3.4 billion in defense products--well over a billion more than it received in US military aid. That makes Israel the fourth-largest arms dealer in the world, overtaking Britain. > > Much of this growth has been in the so-called "homeland security" sector. Before 9/11 homeland security barely existed as an industry. By the end of this year, Israeli exports in the sector will reach $1.2 billion--an increase of 20 percent. The key products and services are high-tech fences, unmanned drones, biometric IDs, video and audio surveillance gear, air passenger profiling and prisoner interrogation systems--precisely the tools and technologies Israel has used to lock in the occupied territories. > > And that is why the chaos in Gaza and the rest of the region doesn't threaten the bottom line in Tel Aviv, and may actually boost it. Israel has learned to turn endless war into a brand asset, pitching its uprooting, occupation and containment of the Palestinian people as a half-century head start in the "global war on terror." > > It's no coincidence that the class projects at Ben Gurion that so impressed Friedman have names like "Innovative Covariance Matrix for Point Target Detection in Hyperspectral Images" and "Algorithms for Obstacle Detection and Avoidance." Thirty homeland security companies were launched in Israel in the past six months alone, thanks in large part to lavish government subsidies that have transformed the Israeli army and the country's universities into incubators for security and weapons start-ups (something to keep in mind in the debates about the academic boycott). > > Next week, the most established of these companies will travel to Europe for the Paris Air Show, the arms industry's equivalent of Fashion Week. One of the Israeli companies exhibiting is Suspect Detection Systems (SDS), which will be showcasing its Cogito1002, a white, sci-fi-looking security kiosk that asks air travelers to answer a series of computer-generated questions, tailored to their country of origin, while they hold their hand on a "biofeedback" sensor. The device reads the body's reactions to the questions, and certain responses flag the passenger as "suspect." > > Like hundreds of other Israeli security start-ups, SDS boasts that it was founded by veterans of Israel's secret police and that its products were road-tested on Palestinians. Not only has the company tried out the biofeedback terminals at a West Bank checkpoint; it claims the "concept is supported and enhanced by knowledge acquired and assimilated from the analysis of thousands of case studies related to suicide bombers in Israel." > > Another star of the Paris Air Show will be Israeli defense giant Elbit, which plans to showcase its Hermes 450 and 900 unmanned air vehicles. As recently as May, according to press reports, Israel used the drones on bombing missions in Gaza. Once tested in the territories, they are exported abroad: The Hermes has already been used at the Arizona-Mexico border; Cogito1002 terminals are being auditioned at an unnamed US airport; and Elbit, one of the companies behind Israel's "security barrier," has partnered with Boeing to construct the Department of Homeland Security's $2.5 billion "virtual" border fence around the United States. > > Since Israel began its policy of sealing off the occupied territories with checkpoints and walls, human rights activists have often compared Gaza and the West Bank to open-air prisons. But in researching the explosion of Israel's homeland security sector, a topic I explore in greater detail in a forthcoming book (The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism), it strikes me that they are something else too: laboratories where the terrifying tools of our security states are being field-tested. Palestinians--whether living in the West Bank or what the Israeli politicians are already calling "Hamasistan"--are no longer just targets. They are guinea pigs. > > So in a way Friedman is right: Israel has struck oil. But the oil isn't the imagination of its techie entrepreneurs. The oil is the war on terror, the state of constant fear that creates a bottomless global demand for devices that watch, listen, contain and target "suspects." And fear, it turns out, is the ultimate renewable resource. > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 12:51:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: fonts, typewriters, page design, & printing In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Robert Bringhurst, Elements of Typographic Style At 10:02 AM 8/25/2007, you wrote: >Even if you're not a type geek the Helvetica film will seduce you--great >soundtrack to boot. There's a short bibliography on the DIY page at the >Cuneiform Press site that I think people with a literary (rather than >strictly graphic arts) background might enjoy. Charles Bernstein's Textual >Conditions syllabus is a great 'survey' as well. > >Kyle >______________ >Kyle Schlesinger >www.kyleschlesinger.com >www.cuneiformpress.com > > > > > From: Daniel Godston > > Reply-To: > > Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 18:38:14 -0500 > > To: > > Subject: fonts, typewriters, page design, & printing > > > > Hi, > > > > Can any of you recommend some good books & other sources about fonts, > > typewriters, page design, & printing? > > > > I just bought Darren Wershler-Henry's "The Iron Whim: A Fragmented History > > of Typewriting," just started it. Here's the NPR interview with DWH: > > http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=12900006. > > > > Jaroslav Andel's "Avant-Garde Page Design 1900-1950" is an > amazing book, and > > so is Steven Clay & Rodney Phillips' "A Secret Location on the Lower East > > Side." > > > > Then there's "Helvetica," the movie: http://www.helveticafilm.com/. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Dan ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 18:14:38 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barry Schwabsky Subject: New Left Review MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Readers of this list will, I expect, be fascinated by Regis Debray's beautiful essay on socialism and the medium of print, in the current issue of New Left Review: http://www.newleftreview.org/?page=article&view=2676 --though passionate adherents of the web may be very annoyed. And while you're there, US readers (and maybe even George Bowering too) can feel justifiably gloomy after reading Alexander Cockburn's lament on the fizzling out of the anti-war movement: http://www.newleftreview.org/?page=article&view=2677 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 13:29:45 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Ciccariello Subject: The unknowable poem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline The unknowable poem - Peter Ciccariello http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 15:39:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander Subject: Re: fonts, typewriters, page design, & printing In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20070825125106.05cc9ca0@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Bringhurst may be OK, but he's quite conservative as a typographic theorist, and that should be kept in mind. Make sure you counter him with various sources of futurist typography, etc. Johanna Drucker has one or two books on those subjects, as well as her massive The Century of Artist's Books. I haven't found any book specifically on typography that has influenced me as much in type work (typesetting, page design, etc.) as many books of poetry, such as Olson's Maximus (the original volumes, not so much the California Press edition), the Awede Press Susan Howe book The Articulation of Sound Forms in Time, Mallarme's Un Coup de Des . . ., the works of Walter Hamady's Perishable Press (particularly early books of that press, previous to about 1978 or so), and far too many other books to mention, and not only "fine press" books. Karl Young's books from Membrane Press are a marvel of possibilities, and various bpNichol publications are informative. Something Else Press books are a treasure trove of possibilities. And there are so many more. charles At 09:51 AM 8/25/2007, you wrote: >Robert Bringhurst, Elements of Typographic Style > >At 10:02 AM 8/25/2007, you wrote: >>Even if you're not a type geek the Helvetica film will seduce you--great >>soundtrack to boot. There's a short bibliography on the DIY page at the >>Cuneiform Press site that I think people with a literary (rather than >>strictly graphic arts) background might enjoy. Charles Bernstein's Textual >>Conditions syllabus is a great 'survey' as well. >> >>Kyle >>______________ >>Kyle Schlesinger >>www.kyleschlesinger.com >>www.cuneiformpress.com >> >> >> >> > From: Daniel Godston >> > Reply-To: >> > Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 18:38:14 -0500 >> > To: >> > Subject: fonts, typewriters, page design, & printing >> > >> > Hi, >> > >> > Can any of you recommend some good books & other sources about fonts, >> > typewriters, page design, & printing? >> > >> > I just bought Darren Wershler-Henry's "The Iron Whim: A Fragmented History >> > of Typewriting," just started it. Here's the NPR interview with DWH: >> > http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=12900006. >> > >> > Jaroslav Andel's "Avant-Garde Page Design 1900-1950" is an >> amazing book, and >> > so is Steven Clay & Rodney Phillips' "A Secret Location on the Lower East >> > Side." >> > >> > Then there's "Helvetica," the movie: http://www.helveticafilm.com/. >> > >> > Thanks, >> > >> > Dan > charles alexander / chax press fold the book inside the book keep it open always read from the inside out speak then Chax Press 520-620-1626 (studio) 520-275-4330 (cell) chax@theriver.com chax.org 650 E. 9th St. Tucson, AZ 85705 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 23:59:50 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barry Schwabsky Subject: Naipaul on Walcott MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I may be the only person on this list who finds Derek Walcott of interest, but if there's another one out there, you should read this rather astonishing piece about him by V.S. Naipaul: http://books.guardian.co.uk/departments/biography/story/0,,2155646,00.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 18:40:29 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nicholas Ruiz III Subject: Re: New Left Review In-Reply-To: <290989.52530.qm@web86013.mail.ird.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Many thanks for this... NRIII --- Barry Schwabsky wrote: > Readers of this list will, I expect, be fascinated > by Regis Debray's beautiful essay on socialism and > the medium of print, in the current issue of New > Left Review: > > > http://www.newleftreview.org/?page=article&view=2676 > > --though passionate adherents of the web may be > very annoyed. > > And while you're there, US readers (and maybe even > George Bowering too) can feel justifiably gloomy > after reading Alexander Cockburn's lament on the > fizzling out of the anti-war movement: > > > http://www.newleftreview.org/?page=article&view=2677 > Dr. Nicholas Ruiz III Editor, Kritikos http://intertheory.org ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 18:50:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Sami Adwan in Newsweek MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Here's an August 13/07 article in Newsweek on Sami Adwan, the Palestinian scholar who, with Dan Bar-On, heads PRIME (the Peace Research Institute in the Middle East): http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20121787/site/newsweek/ ja http://vispo.com/PRIME ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 23:00:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: DRESSCODEAVATAR text MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed This is my part of a talk (Sandy Baldwin is also speaking) for the DRESS- CODEAVATAR show/performance tomorrow at 2 p.m. NYC time - please attend if you're interested. You can find info online; it's in Second Life and real life for that matter. Thanks, Alan I think if you go to http://xxxtenxion.blogspot.com/2007/08/lets-do-it-tun-wirs.html and click on 3 weeks of fine art.xxXtenxion - a bit confusing but there - Avatar Dress Codes (talk for DRESSCODEAVATAR.) Of course the dress-code is code and what protocol structures; I have no idea what Linden knows; If it's anything like MOO-Wizardry, Linden knows or has the potential for knowing - everything. So there's that limit. I think of build as masquerade, participating in dubious economy. Dubious, because I can't afford it! And would want, as with any land-grab, some sort of assurance of ownership beyond the corporation. I've spent something like $2.40 on Second Life. To the more serious issue - I identify with Gaz' work because of the dis/ comfort it causes; it's this dis/comfort and the attendant psychoanalytics that fascinates me, that I think is important in virtual space. Because virtual space is cleansed, purified, and one can always sign out when things get too hot. But investigating, producing, corrupting, exalting, the abject body, that's something else, this body which is both prim and flesh, which doesn't quite let go when you hit delete or quit. It's this body that reminds you of flesh in the midst of non-flesh, that speaks for that _matter_ of the number tattooed on a survivor's arm - and the relation of that number to the system of integers. Every arm, leg, big rez, hot car, agro, hack, swollen outfitting, is sex, most often phallus, writ large. Every phallus is a masquerade, null point, whose transcendent meaning disappears in the vagaries of real and quite weak flesh. Avalanches kill people, they're just snow. I'm quite possibly in the wrong place, but I miss issues of governance in Second Life, issues implicit in the software, not riding the World Wide Web. We're allowed to talk endlessly. Just a word here about MOOs - anyone could and can set one up, look at the code, thank you Pavil Curtis. Now the SL engine is far more complex; it's unary, there, as far as I know; we're in an obdurate space in a manner not unlike the earth itself. On an email list, someone complained that there's no Guernica in Second Life. But there is; Gaz dressed/de/codings, my body, these are Guernicas. But response Guernicas, not masterpieces, which, with all their delicacy, are left behind. Back to the dress-code. My avatar appears to bleed. My avatar is a woman, sourcing speech, behavior, chora, abjection, Timaeus, Kristeva. Her body distorts, her body always returns from distortions. She came out of my work with another avatar, Nikuko, who appeared in print and video for a number of years. Nikuko was a demiurge; this avatar is demiurgency. It uses the name Alan and writes me within her. The very interactivity, dialectic, of Second Life, ensures she's only in partial control, just as one might wander, Situationist-like, through any city. She's dressed nude or blood-covered or organ-covered; she's tantra-fierce, I'm her consort, not the other way around. Inhabiting her, I face myself in an _uncanny manner,_ it's not comfortable; when she leaves the space through extreme behavior, I can't find her or find myself any more than you can. Her motions are behaviors or behavior collisions - combinations of behaviors that result in contradictions. The behaviors themselves are, for the most part, constructed from motion capture equipment using life human performers. But the motion capture sensors are re-arranged to create virtual bodies in real physical space, and it's these virtual bodies and their motions that are mapped onto the Second Life avatar. There's relationship to dance as well. I work with Azure, Foofwa d'Imobilite, worked with Maud Liardon. A fair amount of this work is nude - not to create a pure body, but to give the cultured, acculturated, body, room to breathe. If you've seen our videos, you'll find real-world imitations of avatar imitations of real-world behaviors; the spaces shimmer and meld, both in virtual and live performance. Sexuality is always in the eye of the beholder; it's not in the prims. I enter the sheaved interior of my avatar; there's no clothing, only triply articulated space: 1. Articulated by the exigencies of the avatar- construct itself; 2. Articulated by motion-capture; 3. Articulated by the Linden contextuality and all that's implied there. The avatar behaves, one way or another, variously in various spaces. I want to work at the edge of the game-space, where physics is different, and where I'm mostly alone (or working with my colleague on-line, Sandy Baldwin). ...but then I imagine furiously dancing across the landscape, inscape, outscape, roiling, creating havoc everywhere I go, just churning like a star half-way burnt to a cinder, burned-out, dead before 1914, 1939, 2002... thank you ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 23:15:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jilly Dybka Subject: Re: fonts, typewriters, page design, & printing In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline books: Thinking With Type design-wise, anything by Edward R. Tufte is fascinating. Jilly -- Jilly Dybka, WA4CZD jilly9@gmail.com Blog: http://www.poetryhut.com/wordpress/ Jazz: http://cdbaby.com/cd/dybka Due to Presidential Executive Orders, the National Security Agency may have read this email without warning, warrant, or notice. They may do this without any judicial or legislative oversight. You have no recourse nor protection. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 22:09:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: current email for Rodrigo Toscano? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit address I'm using is RT5LE9@aol.com if that's no longer valid, could someone send me a current one (or Rodrigo could you please contact me at your convenience?) thanks! Tenney ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 21:44:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Horton Subject: Dream Songs? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hi all, I'm not quite sure what happened but I have actually recommended twice within the month that two of my non-poet friends read the *Dream Songs*. They were both looking for good reads, and this was the first thing that came to mind. It forced me to pick up my third copy I've owned--this is a book that I give away on moves and then rebuy shortly after--and song #14 (Life, friends, is boring...), while making its way into all those anthologies and being a good stand alone poem and all, does little justice to the overall accruing strength of the whole. It may not be at the level of *Leaves of Grass, *the *Cantos, or A*, but I need to reread the thing and consider why I think this *might* be the case. Thoughts? David Harrison Horton unionherald.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 09:03:32 -0400 Reply-To: tyrone williams Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tyrone williams Subject: Re: Naipaul on Walcott Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Great piece, Barry--I interviewed Walcott at my university for one of our "lecture" series--the lecture consisying of the interview. Age has slowed down this infamously irascible character but he still had a punch or two left..."The Schooner Flight" is still one of my favorite poems of the 20th century... Tyrone -----Original Message----- >From: Barry Schwabsky >Sent: Aug 25, 2007 6:59 PM >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Naipaul on Walcott > >I may be the only person on this list who finds Derek Walcott of interest, but if there's another one out there, you should read this rather astonishing piece about him by V.S. Naipaul: http://books.guardian.co.uk/departments/biography/story/0,,2155646,00.html Tyrone Williams ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 10:21:05 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Chapman Subject: Re: fonts, typewriters, page design, & printing Comments: To: charles alexander In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20070825153217.03579c68@theriver.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The Helvetica film was excellent. Where I saw it there were picketers decrying the global hegemony of sans-serif fonts - designers with Times Roman shoulders to chip. Perhaps, seemingly, the most left-field theorist of typography, was published under Bringhurst's conservative watch at Hartley and Marks out there in Point Roberts, BC-WA. Derrek NordZij, a Dutch typographer, encounters letter-form through a series of strokes in negative space. His sense of the three-dimensional character of the 'face' is fascinating. There are two identical versions of the book: 'Letterletter' and 'The Stroke'. Of course there's the venerable rags 'Type' and 'How'. Expensive eye candy. CC Quoting charles alexander : > Bringhurst may be OK, but he's quite conservative as a typographic > theorist, and that should be kept in mind. Make sure you counter him > with various sources of futurist typography, etc. Johanna Drucker has > one or two books on those subjects, as well as her massive The > Century of Artist's Books. I haven't found any book specifically on > typography that has influenced me as much in type work (typesetting, > page design, etc.) as many books of poetry, such as Olson's Maximus > (the original volumes, not so much the California Press edition), the > Awede Press Susan Howe book The Articulation of Sound Forms in Time, > Mallarme's Un Coup de Des . . ., the works of Walter Hamady's > Perishable Press (particularly early books of that press, previous to > about 1978 or so), and far too many other books to mention, and not > only "fine press" books. Karl Young's books from Membrane Press are a > marvel of possibilities, and various bpNichol publications are > informative. Something Else Press books are a treasure trove of > possibilities. And there are so many more. > > charles > > At 09:51 AM 8/25/2007, you wrote: > >Robert Bringhurst, Elements of Typographic Style > > > >At 10:02 AM 8/25/2007, you wrote: > >>Even if you're not a type geek the Helvetica film will seduce you--great > >>soundtrack to boot. There's a short bibliography on the DIY page at the > >>Cuneiform Press site that I think people with a literary (rather than > >>strictly graphic arts) background might enjoy. Charles Bernstein's Textual > >>Conditions syllabus is a great 'survey' as well. > >> > >>Kyle > >>______________ > >>Kyle Schlesinger > >>www.kyleschlesinger.com > >>www.cuneiformpress.com > >> > >> > >> > >> > From: Daniel Godston > >> > Reply-To: > >> > Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 18:38:14 -0500 > >> > To: > >> > Subject: fonts, typewriters, page design, & printing > >> > > >> > Hi, > >> > > >> > Can any of you recommend some good books & other sources about fonts, > >> > typewriters, page design, & printing? > >> > > >> > I just bought Darren Wershler-Henry's "The Iron Whim: A Fragmented > History > >> > of Typewriting," just started it. Here's the NPR interview with DWH: > >> > http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=12900006. > >> > > >> > Jaroslav Andel's "Avant-Garde Page Design 1900-1950" is an > >> amazing book, and > >> > so is Steven Clay & Rodney Phillips' "A Secret Location on the Lower > East > >> > Side." > >> > > >> > Then there's "Helvetica," the movie: http://www.helveticafilm.com/. > >> > > >> > Thanks, > >> > > >> > Dan > > > > charles alexander / chax press > > fold the book inside the book keep it open always > read from the inside out speak then > > Chax Press > 520-620-1626 (studio) > 520-275-4330 (cell) > chax@theriver.com > chax.org > 650 E. 9th St. > Tucson, AZ 85705 > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 09:51:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: J Crockett Subject: note MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://listenlight.net research is proud to announce this study a "now available" release note from your journal will peak over three days at only 20% more visits than a "coming soon" release note from your journal. thank you ! p.s. it's just more efficient in thunderbird to type the url than mess around with hyperlinks (ones requiring manual care) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 08:06:40 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Amish Trivedi Subject: Re: Dream Songs? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit David, et. al., Before I go further, I'm a huge fan of DS #22- "a teenage cancer, with a plan" Personally, I like it a lot more than Leaves of Grass, although they are pretty similar in a lot of ways. I find them both self-serving for their particular poets as well as an interesting chronicle to the periods in which they were living (I have a paper on DS about this point, but it's awfully executed). JB's such a strange guy with his own mixed up views on himself and everything around him, and that to me ends up being the humor in DS, which to an extent may have been a conscious attempt. I have bought several copies, but only one for myself: I've given two to friends and one to a college literary society I was a member of in my younger and more vulnerable days. David: Go get sucked into JB's world and report back! Best, Amish David Horton wrote: Hi all, I'm not quite sure what happened but I have actually recommended twice within the month that two of my non-poet friends read the *Dream Songs*. They were both looking for good reads, and this was the first thing that came to mind. It forced me to pick up my third copy I've owned--this is a book that I give away on moves and then rebuy shortly after--and song #14 (Life, friends, is boring...), while making its way into all those anthologies and being a good stand alone poem and all, does little justice to the overall accruing strength of the whole. It may not be at the level of *Leaves of Grass, *the *Cantos, or A*, but I need to reread the thing and consider why I think this *might* be the case. Thoughts? David Harrison Horton unionherald.blogspot.com "Christopher Columbus, as everyone knows, is honored by posterity because he was the last to discover America." -James Joyce ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 09:14:59 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: fonts, typewriters, page design, & printing In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20070825153217.03579c68@theriver.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Charles Olson's Letters to Origin (meaning Cid Corman) give a wonderful sense of 'out loud' thinking about the relationship between the poet, the editor, the designer and the poem its ideal typographic representation on the page. Olson's insistence (naturally!) on the chemistry and materiality (physiology) of this relationship, I found - when I (as editior and publisher) was working with both poets and designers - to be vital. Type - in that projectivist sense - as similar to a musical score for an accurate reading of the poem. Stephen V http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ > Bringhurst may be OK, but he's quite conservative as a typographic > theorist, and that should be kept in mind. Make sure you counter him > with various sources of futurist typography, etc. Johanna Drucker has > one or two books on those subjects, as well as her massive The > Century of Artist's Books. I haven't found any book specifically on > typography that has influenced me as much in type work (typesetting, > page design, etc.) as many books of poetry, such as Olson's Maximus > (the original volumes, not so much the California Press edition), the > Awede Press Susan Howe book The Articulation of Sound Forms in Time, > Mallarme's Un Coup de Des . . ., the works of Walter Hamady's > Perishable Press (particularly early books of that press, previous to > about 1978 or so), and far too many other books to mention, and not > only "fine press" books. Karl Young's books from Membrane Press are a > marvel of possibilities, and various bpNichol publications are > informative. Something Else Press books are a treasure trove of > possibilities. And there are so many more. > > charles > > At 09:51 AM 8/25/2007, you wrote: >> Robert Bringhurst, Elements of Typographic Style >> >> At 10:02 AM 8/25/2007, you wrote: >>> Even if you're not a type geek the Helvetica film will seduce you--great >>> soundtrack to boot. There's a short bibliography on the DIY page at the >>> Cuneiform Press site that I think people with a literary (rather than >>> strictly graphic arts) background might enjoy. Charles Bernstein's Textual >>> Conditions syllabus is a great 'survey' as well. >>> >>> Kyle >>> ______________ >>> Kyle Schlesinger >>> www.kyleschlesinger.com >>> www.cuneiformpress.com >>> >>> >>> >>>> From: Daniel Godston >>>> Reply-To: >>>> Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 18:38:14 -0500 >>>> To: >>>> Subject: fonts, typewriters, page design, & printing >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Can any of you recommend some good books & other sources about fonts, >>>> typewriters, page design, & printing? >>>> >>>> I just bought Darren Wershler-Henry's "The Iron Whim: A Fragmented History >>>> of Typewriting," just started it. Here's the NPR interview with DWH: >>>> http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=12900006. >>>> >>>> Jaroslav Andel's "Avant-Garde Page Design 1900-1950" is an >>> amazing book, and >>>> so is Steven Clay & Rodney Phillips' "A Secret Location on the Lower East >>>> Side." >>>> >>>> Then there's "Helvetica," the movie: http://www.helveticafilm.com/. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Dan >> > > charles alexander / chax press > > fold the book inside the book keep it open always > read from the inside out speak then > > Chax Press > 520-620-1626 (studio) > 520-275-4330 (cell) > chax@theriver.com > chax.org > 650 E. 9th St. > Tucson, AZ 85705 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 12:03:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: J Crockett Subject: Re: Dream Songs? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If your friends are from the midwest, you may recommend, dare I say, The Light Around the Body --- something that people from where you are do not tend to see. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 13:06:14 -0400 Reply-To: az421@freenet.carleton.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: some notes Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT interview with Nicholas Lea by Kate Greenstreet, on his first poetry collection, Everything is movies (Chaudiere Books, 2007) http://kickingwind.com/082607.html photo of rob mclennan & Susan Newlove (wife of John) at the Carleton Tavern taken by John MacDonald http://www.johnwmacdonald.com/blog/2007/08/rob-mclennan-toasted-by-susan-newlove.html photo of Ottawa poet William Hawkins at the Factory Reading Series taken by Charles Earl http://www.charlesearl.com/index.php?id=483 rob -- poet/editor/publisher ...STANZAS mag, above/ground press & Chaudiere Books (www.chaudierebooks.com) ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...13th poetry coll'n - The Ottawa City Project .... c/o 858 Somerset St W, Ottawa ON K1R 6R7 * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 12:10:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Martha King Subject: Re: fonts, typewriters, page design, & printing In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20070825153217.03579c68@theriver.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" For information on the beautiful?original Maximus editions, for heaven's sake contact Jonathan Williams, Jargon Press, Highlands, North Carolina.? He'll have much to tell you about typography and design, if he's in the mood. But you'd be advised to write him?a paper letter. -- Martha King? Notice: Due to Presidential Executive Orders, the National Security Agency may have read this email without warning, warrant, or notice. They may do this without any judicial or legislative oversight. You have no recourse or protection. -----Original Message----- From: charles alexander To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 6:39 pm Subject: Re: fonts, typewriters, page design, & printing Bringhurst may be OK, but he's quite conservative as a typographic theorist, and that should be kept in mind. Make sure you counter him with various sources of futurist typography, etc. Johanna Drucker has one or two books on those subjects, as well as her massive The Century of Artist's Books. I haven't found any book specifically on typography that has influenced me as much in type work (typesetting, page design, etc.) as many books of poetry, such as Olson's Maximus (the original volumes, not so much the California Press edition), the Awede Press Susan Howe book The Articulation of Sound Forms in Time, Mallarme's Un Coup de Des . . ., the works of Walter Hamady's Perishable Press (particularly early books of that press, previous to about 1978 or so), and far too many other books to mention, and not only "fine press" books. Karl Young's books from Membrane Press are a marvel of possibilities, and various bpNichol publications are informative. Something Else Press books are a treasure trove of possibilities. And there are so many more.? ? charles? ? At 09:51 AM 8/25/2007, you wrote:? >Robert Bringhurst, Elements of Typographic Style? >? >At 10:02 AM 8/25/2007, you wrote:? >>Even if you're not a type geek the Helvetica film will seduce you--great? >>soundtrack to boot. There's a short bibliography on the DIY page at the? >>Cuneiform Press site that I think people with a literary (rather than? >>strictly graphic arts) background might enjoy. Charles Bernstein's Textual? >>Conditions syllabus is a great 'survey' as well.? >>? >>Kyle? >>______________? >>Kyle Schlesinger? >>www.kyleschlesinger.com? >>www.cuneiformpress.com? >>? >>? >>? >> > From: Daniel Godston ? >> > Reply-To: ? >> > Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 18:38:14 -0500? >> > To: ? >> > Subject: fonts, typewriters, page design, & printing? >> >? >> > Hi,? >> >? >> > Can any of you recommend some good books & other sources about fonts,? >> > typewriters, page design, & printing?? >> >? >> > I just bought Darren Wershler-Henry's "The Iron Whim: A Fragmented History? >> > of Typewriting," just started it. Here's the NPR interview with DWH:? >> > http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=12900006.? >> >? >> > Jaroslav Andel's "Avant-Garde Page Design 1900-1950" is an >> amazing book, and? >> > so is Steven Clay & Rodney Phillips' "A Secret Location on the Lower East? >> > Side."? >> >? >> > Then there's "Helvetica," the movie: http://www.helveticafilm.com/.? >> >? >> > Thanks,? >> >? >> > Dan? >? ? charles alexander / chax press? ? fold the book inside the book keep it open always? ? read from the inside out speak then? ? Chax Press? 520-620-1626 (studio)? 520-275-4330 (cell)? chax@theriver.com? chax.org? 650 E. 9th St.? Tucson, AZ 85705 ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 12:27:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Margaret Konkol Subject: "This Feeling of Exaltation" John Ashbery's 80th MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline "This Feeling of Exaltation" Bard College Celebrates John Ashbery on the Occasion of his 80th Birthday September 14-16, 2007 Three days of poetry readings, panel discussions, and music at Bard Friday September 14, 2007 Bard College Celebrates John Ashbery on the Occasion of His 80th Birthday A Poetry Reading Time: 4:00 pm - 6:00 pm Location: Fisher Center, Theater Two Contact: Office of Special Events, wayne@bard.edu, 845-758-7504 Saturday September 15, 2007 10:00 a.m.-noon: John Ashbery: The Early Work 2:00-4:00 p.m.: John Ashbery:The Later Work 4:00 p.m. Reading by John Ashbery Time: 10:00 am Location: Gabrielle H. Reem and Herbert J. Kayden Center for Science and Computation Contact: Office of Special Events, wayne@bard.edu, 845-758-7504 Sunday September 16, 2007 11:00 a.m. "Off-Center Intensity: Reflections on John Ashbery and the Visual Arts" Time: 11:00 am Location: Avery Art Center, Theater Contact: Office of Special Events, wayne@bard.edu, 845-758-7504 John Ashbery, Charles P. Stevenson, Jr. Professor of Languages and Literature, has taught at Bard since 1990. Among his numerous honors, Ashbery has been awarded the Pulitzer Prize for Poetry, the National Book Award, the Gold Medal for Poetry by the American Academy of Arts and Letters, the Robert Frost Medal by the Poetry Society of America, and the Wallace Stevens Award by the Academy of American Poets. He was also named Officier of the L=E9gion d'Honneur of the Republic of France in 2002, and was New York State Poet Laureate from 2001-2002. See link for details of all the events planned. All readings are free and open to the public American Symphony Ochestra concert tickets available through the Fisher Center Box Office 845 758 7900 For details: http://tinyurl.com/2xf8p4 or http://inside.bard.edu/campus/calendar/calendar ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 14:51:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: fonts, typewriters, page design, & printing In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20070825153217.03579c68@theriver.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed There's a tendency to skip the basics. This list would make most beginners pack up and go home. But as long as we're at it, look at a lot of old books. Two that come to mind are the Van krimpen Homer and the Eric Gill Hamlet. Actually, anything by Gill or Van Krimpen. Not to speak of William Morris. And all the way back to medieval manuscripts. And just so that you know there are different schools of letterpress, check out (in rare book collections) Leonard Baskin's Gehenna Press and Andrew Hoyem's Arion Press. With Perishable Press, they've spawned much of the subsequent crop of letterpress designers and printers, and represent quite different ways of going about it. They of course share many things, most important a fanatical attention to detail and quality of impression. Mark At 06:39 PM 8/25/2007, you wrote: >Bringhurst may be OK, but he's quite conservative as a typographic >theorist, and that should be kept in mind. Make sure you counter him >with various sources of futurist typography, etc. Johanna Drucker >has one or two books on those subjects, as well as her massive The >Century of Artist's Books. I haven't found any book specifically on >typography that has influenced me as much in type work (typesetting, >page design, etc.) as many books of poetry, such as Olson's Maximus >(the original volumes, not so much the California Press edition), >the Awede Press Susan Howe book The Articulation of Sound Forms in >Time, Mallarme's Un Coup de Des . . ., the works of Walter Hamady's >Perishable Press (particularly early books of that press, previous >to about 1978 or so), and far too many other books to mention, and >not only "fine press" books. Karl Young's books from Membrane Press >are a marvel of possibilities, and various bpNichol publications are >informative. Something Else Press books are a treasure trove of >possibilities. And there are so many more. > >charles > >At 09:51 AM 8/25/2007, you wrote: >>Robert Bringhurst, Elements of Typographic Style >> >>At 10:02 AM 8/25/2007, you wrote: >>>Even if you're not a type geek the Helvetica film will seduce you--great >>>soundtrack to boot. There's a short bibliography on the DIY page at the >>>Cuneiform Press site that I think people with a literary (rather than >>>strictly graphic arts) background might enjoy. Charles Bernstein's Textual >>>Conditions syllabus is a great 'survey' as well. >>> >>>Kyle >>>______________ >>>Kyle Schlesinger >>>www.kyleschlesinger.com >>>www.cuneiformpress.com >>> >>> >>> >>> > From: Daniel Godston >>> > Reply-To: >>> > Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 18:38:14 -0500 >>> > To: >>> > Subject: fonts, typewriters, page design, & printing >>> > >>> > Hi, >>> > >>> > Can any of you recommend some good books & other sources about fonts, >>> > typewriters, page design, & printing? >>> > >>> > I just bought Darren Wershler-Henry's "The Iron Whim: A >>> Fragmented History >>> > of Typewriting," just started it. Here's the NPR interview with DWH: >>> > http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=12900006. >>> > >>> > Jaroslav Andel's "Avant-Garde Page Design 1900-1950" is an >>> amazing book, and >>> > so is Steven Clay & Rodney Phillips' "A Secret Location on the Lower East >>> > Side." >>> > >>> > Then there's "Helvetica," the movie: http://www.helveticafilm.com/. >>> > >>> > Thanks, >>> > >>> > Dan > >charles alexander / chax press > >fold the book inside the book keep it open always > read from the inside out speak then > >Chax Press >520-620-1626 (studio) >520-275-4330 (cell) >chax@theriver.com >chax.org >650 E. 9th St. >Tucson, AZ 85705 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 12:33:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander Subject: Re: fonts, typewriters, page design, & printing In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20070826143332.05640ec0@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed When I was a beginner, that list didn't make me pack up and go home; it excited me and made me go forward. But you're right, the basics shouldn't be skipped, but they should be taken as tools, not ends, unless that does end up being just where one wants to reside. I absolutely agree with Mark about looking at Eric Gill's and Jan Van Krimpen's work, also the work & writing of Jan Tschichold, Victor Hammer, Stanley Morrison, Frederic Goudy. Tschichold, in particular, in Die neue Typographie, had a great influence on 20th Century typographic directions, though he would later tend to go away from his own more avant positions. His Sabon is one of the most graceful fonts developed in the 20th Century. Hermann Zapf is also someone whose work bears attention. When looking at William Morris, don't forget his somewhat lesser known contemporaries in book making, whose aesthetic ideas were somewhat different from Morris but whose works are, to me, equally compelling -- particularly the Ashendene Press of C.H. St. John Hornby, and the Doves Press of T.J. Cobden-Sanderson and Emery Walker. In general, both of these presses produced books that were less showy, but arguably more elegant, than Morris's Kelmscott Press. I say that, though, with absolute respect and amazement at what Morris accomplished. In terms of influences on designers & printers who started in the late 20th Century, I'd disagree slightly with Mark, or at least would have to add Harry Duncan (Cummington Press, and subsequently Abbatoir Editions) to the list of those who spawned people active in printing & design, and probably even put him at the very top of that list. I'd also have to add Claire Van Vliet and her Janus Press, although possibly more of the people she influenced have gone into artists' bookmaking and handmade paper works than have got involved in printing literary works. These are all very fine artists and craftspeople who trained in calligraphy, design, and traditional bookmaking skills; I think there are equal influences coming from other directions, such as from the lettristes (Isidore Issou & others), and from Fluxus & other avant-garde movements. We may look back on the current period and see what mIEKAL aND has done with Xexoxial Anarchy and other presses & magazines he has developed, as more definitive of literary/typographical conjunctions in our time, than any "fine press" of the period. I'd also suggest looking at the books, and the books about books, produced by Granary Books in the last couple of decades. Individual beauties, and, collectively, an informative and generous vision about the state of the book. Possibly begin with The Book of the Book, but don't stop there. Charles At 11:51 AM 8/26/2007, you wrote: >There's a tendency to skip the basics. This list would make most >beginners pack up and go home. > >But as long as we're at it, look at a lot of old books. Two that >come to mind are the Van krimpen Homer and the Eric Gill Hamlet. >Actually, anything by Gill or Van Krimpen. Not to speak of William >Morris. And all the way back to medieval manuscripts. > >And just so that you know there are different schools of >letterpress, check out (in rare book collections) Leonard Baskin's >Gehenna Press and Andrew Hoyem's Arion Press. With Perishable Press, >they've spawned much of the subsequent crop of letterpress designers >and printers, and represent quite different ways of going about it. >They of course share many things, most important a fanatical >attention to detail and quality of impression. > >Mark > >At 06:39 PM 8/25/2007, you wrote: >>Bringhurst may be OK, but he's quite conservative as a typographic >>theorist, and that should be kept in mind. Make sure you counter >>him with various sources of futurist typography, etc. Johanna >>Drucker has one or two books on those subjects, as well as her >>massive The Century of Artist's Books. I haven't found any book >>specifically on typography that has influenced me as much in type >>work (typesetting, page design, etc.) as many books of poetry, such >>as Olson's Maximus (the original volumes, not so much the >>California Press edition), the Awede Press Susan Howe book The >>Articulation of Sound Forms in Time, Mallarme's Un Coup de Des . . >>., the works of Walter Hamady's Perishable Press (particularly >>early books of that press, previous to about 1978 or so), and far >>too many other books to mention, and not only "fine press" books. >>Karl Young's books from Membrane Press are a marvel of >>possibilities, and various bpNichol publications are informative. >>Something Else Press books are a treasure trove of possibilities. >>And there are so many more. >> >>charles >> >>At 09:51 AM 8/25/2007, you wrote: >>>Robert Bringhurst, Elements of Typographic Style >>> >>>At 10:02 AM 8/25/2007, you wrote: >>>>Even if you're not a type geek the Helvetica film will seduce you--great >>>>soundtrack to boot. There's a short bibliography on the DIY page at the >>>>Cuneiform Press site that I think people with a literary (rather than >>>>strictly graphic arts) background might enjoy. Charles Bernstein's Textual >>>>Conditions syllabus is a great 'survey' as well. >>>> >>>>Kyle >>>>______________ >>>>Kyle Schlesinger >>>>www.kyleschlesinger.com >>>>www.cuneiformpress.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> > From: Daniel Godston >>>> > Reply-To: >>>> > Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 18:38:14 -0500 >>>> > To: >>>> > Subject: fonts, typewriters, page design, & printing >>>> > >>>> > Hi, >>>> > >>>> > Can any of you recommend some good books & other sources about fonts, >>>> > typewriters, page design, & printing? >>>> > >>>> > I just bought Darren Wershler-Henry's "The Iron Whim: A >>>> Fragmented History >>>> > of Typewriting," just started it. Here's the NPR interview with DWH: >>>> > http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=12900006. >>>> > >>>> > Jaroslav Andel's "Avant-Garde Page Design 1900-1950" is an >>>> amazing book, and >>>> > so is Steven Clay & Rodney Phillips' "A Secret Location on the >>>> Lower East >>>> > Side." >>>> > >>>> > Then there's "Helvetica," the movie: http://www.helveticafilm.com/. >>>> > >>>> > Thanks, >>>> > >>>> > Dan >> >>charles alexander / chax press >> >>fold the book inside the book keep it open always >> read from the inside out speak then >> >>Chax Press >>520-620-1626 (studio) >>520-275-4330 (cell) >>chax@theriver.com >>chax.org >>650 E. 9th St. >>Tucson, AZ 85705 > charles alexander / chax press fold the book inside the book keep it open always read from the inside out speak then Chax Press 520-620-1626 (studio) 520-275-4330 (cell) chax@theriver.com chax.org 650 E. 9th St. Tucson, AZ 85705 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 12:38:42 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: MESSAGE-ID field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: charles alexander Subject: Re: fonts, typewriters, page design, & printing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Here's a good excerpt from Jan Tschichold's The New Typography (trans. Ruari McLean, pub. in English by Univ. of California Press, 1995): http://transcriptions.english.ucsb.edu/archive/courses/liu/english25/materials/graphic-design/tschichold.html Charles charles alexander / chax press fold the book inside the book keep it open always read from the inside out speak then Chax Press 520-620-1626 (studio) 520-275-4330 (cell) chax@theriver.com chax.org 650 E. 9th St. Tucson, AZ 85705 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 14:46:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Simon DeDeo Subject: absent magazine issue two NOW LIVE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed absent magazine * issue two now online at http://absentmag.org/issue02/ featuring poetry by Jasper Bernes, Charles Berstein, Regis Bonvicino, Jack Boettcher, Tim Botta, Julia Cohen, Shanna Compton, John Cotter, Shafer Hall, Lisa Jarnot, Pierre Joris, Joan Kane, Noelle Kocot, Jason Labbe, Kathleen Ossip, The Pines, Matthew Rohrer, Kate Schapira, Mathias Svalina, Kathryn Tabb, Allison Titus and Betsy Wheeler. in translation with Sergei Kitov and Octavo Paz. musical work by Aaron Einbond. prose by Joe Amato, Peter Ciccariello, Simon DeDeo, Adam Golaski, Kent Johnson, Amy Newman, Davis Schneiderman and Tyler Williams. edited by Elisa Gabbert and Simon DeDeo; with great gratitude to Irwin Chen and his class at Parsons School of Design in New York City. work solicited for issue three: please read guidelines at http://absentmag.org/issue02/html/guidelines.html * letters to the editor solicited: please read http://absentmag.org/issue02/html/letters.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 15:56:33 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Chapman Subject: Re: fonts, typewriters, page design, & printing In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20070826143332.05640ec0@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This is interesting Mark. Any advice on finding out more about letterpress schools and differences? It seems necessity would curve these differences or is there more? Another good read in the basics might include Frederick Goudy's professional autobiography: "The Alphabet: Fifteen Interpretive Designs." Quoting Mark Weiss : > There's a tendency to skip the basics. This list would make most > beginners pack up and go home. > > But as long as we're at it, look at a lot of old books. Two that come > to mind are the Van krimpen Homer and the Eric Gill Hamlet. Actually, > anything by Gill or Van Krimpen. Not to speak of William Morris. And > all the way back to medieval manuscripts. > > And just so that you know there are different schools of letterpress, > check out (in rare book collections) Leonard Baskin's Gehenna Press > and Andrew Hoyem's Arion Press. With Perishable Press, they've > spawned much of the subsequent crop of letterpress designers and > printers, and represent quite different ways of going about it. They > of course share many things, most important a fanatical attention to > detail and quality of impression. > > Mark > > At 06:39 PM 8/25/2007, you wrote: > >Bringhurst may be OK, but he's quite conservative as a typographic > >theorist, and that should be kept in mind. Make sure you counter him > >with various sources of futurist typography, etc. Johanna Drucker > >has one or two books on those subjects, as well as her massive The > >Century of Artist's Books. I haven't found any book specifically on > >typography that has influenced me as much in type work (typesetting, > >page design, etc.) as many books of poetry, such as Olson's Maximus > >(the original volumes, not so much the California Press edition), > >the Awede Press Susan Howe book The Articulation of Sound Forms in > >Time, Mallarme's Un Coup de Des . . ., the works of Walter Hamady's > >Perishable Press (particularly early books of that press, previous > >to about 1978 or so), and far too many other books to mention, and > >not only "fine press" books. Karl Young's books from Membrane Press > >are a marvel of possibilities, and various bpNichol publications are > >informative. Something Else Press books are a treasure trove of > >possibilities. And there are so many more. > > > >charles > > > >At 09:51 AM 8/25/2007, you wrote: > >>Robert Bringhurst, Elements of Typographic Style > >> > >>At 10:02 AM 8/25/2007, you wrote: > >>>Even if you're not a type geek the Helvetica film will seduce you--great > >>>soundtrack to boot. There's a short bibliography on the DIY page at the > >>>Cuneiform Press site that I think people with a literary (rather than > >>>strictly graphic arts) background might enjoy. Charles Bernstein's Textual > >>>Conditions syllabus is a great 'survey' as well. > >>> > >>>Kyle > >>>______________ > >>>Kyle Schlesinger > >>>www.kyleschlesinger.com > >>>www.cuneiformpress.com > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > From: Daniel Godston > >>> > Reply-To: > >>> > Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 18:38:14 -0500 > >>> > To: > >>> > Subject: fonts, typewriters, page design, & printing > >>> > > >>> > Hi, > >>> > > >>> > Can any of you recommend some good books & other sources about fonts, > >>> > typewriters, page design, & printing? > >>> > > >>> > I just bought Darren Wershler-Henry's "The Iron Whim: A > >>> Fragmented History > >>> > of Typewriting," just started it. Here's the NPR interview with DWH: > >>> > http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=12900006. > >>> > > >>> > Jaroslav Andel's "Avant-Garde Page Design 1900-1950" is an > >>> amazing book, and > >>> > so is Steven Clay & Rodney Phillips' "A Secret Location on the Lower > East > >>> > Side." > >>> > > >>> > Then there's "Helvetica," the movie: http://www.helveticafilm.com/. > >>> > > >>> > Thanks, > >>> > > >>> > Dan > > > >charles alexander / chax press > > > >fold the book inside the book keep it open always > > read from the inside out speak then > > > >Chax Press > >520-620-1626 (studio) > >520-275-4330 (cell) > >chax@theriver.com > >chax.org > >650 E. 9th St. > >Tucson, AZ 85705 > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 16:11:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: Naipaul on Walcott Comments: To: Barry Schwabsky In-Reply-To: 238281.84883.qm@web86011.mail.ird.yahoo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 "I had no feeling for poetry." Did that come as a surprise to anybody? I remember the reaction of C.L.R. James, who had been an early champion of Naipaul, to the publication of AN AREA OF DARKNESS. "The only area of darkness," said James, "is in Vidia's mind." On Sat, Aug 25, 2007 06:59 PM, Barry Schwabsky wrote: > > >I may be the only person on this list who finds Derek Walcott of interest, but if there's another one out there, you should read this rather astonishing piece about him by V.S. Naipaul: http://books.guardian.co.uk/departments/biography/story/0,,2155646,00.html <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We are enslaved by what makes us free -- intolerable paradox at the heart of speech. --Robert Kelly Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 15:32:44 -0500 Reply-To: dgodston@sbcglobal.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Godston Subject: Re: fonts, typewriters, page design, & printing In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This discussion makes one think of typography and page design in different ways -- traditional, experimental, abstract, expansive, etc. Here's an interview with Hannah Higgins wherein she talks about her mother sawing a book page in half with a blow torch in a performance: http://www.mouthtomouthmag.com/higgins.html. Fire as typeset...? Is a graphic score typography for musicians? http://www.thecentreofattention.org/exhibitions/workingscores.doc -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Stephen Vincent Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 11:15 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: fonts, typewriters, page design, & printing Charles Olson's Letters to Origin (meaning Cid Corman) give a wonderful sense of 'out loud' thinking about the relationship between the poet, the editor, the designer and the poem its ideal typographic representation on the page. Olson's insistence (naturally!) on the chemistry and materiality (physiology) of this relationship, I found - when I (as editior and publisher) was working with both poets and designers - to be vital. Type - in that projectivist sense - as similar to a musical score for an accurate reading of the poem. Stephen V http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 22:59:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Full transcription from DRESSCODEAVATAR presentation: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Full transcription from DRESSCODEAVATAR presentation: This involved Sandy Baldwin's 'spew' of Sondheim's phrases (among others) and is quite long/repetitive. Includes audience q&a in Second Life http://www.asondheim.org/dresscodeavatarfull.txt Edited version with the 'spew' vastly cut back: http://www.asondheim.org/dresscodeavataredit.txt Wonderfully terribly fun! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 13:33:21 -0600 Reply-To: derek beaulieu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derek beaulieu Subject: Material Poem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hey folks; thot you might be interested in James Stuart's Material Poem catalogue out of Sydney's University of Technology, its up as a PDF at: http://www.nongeneric.net/ and is a very intriguing look at books and performance and writing... derek ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 23:18:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: fonts, typewriters, page design, & printing In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20070826120643.0357a908@theriver.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit fonts: make your own. get a copy of FontLab. there's nothing more fun, frustrating, intriguing than designing a font specific to a work. or simpler still, design a display font for the title, most of the time you don't even need all the letters. typewriters: I began in small press pre-desktop when the DIY typesetting machine was an IBM Selectric. You were really hot shit if you had more than 2 typeballs. page design: take the time to learn InDesign inside & out. it's overtaken Quark as the industry standard & like PhotoShop you can't really do anything original without know the software. printing: amazing things are being done with inkjet, laser printers & digital copiers, make books in small editions & most likely you'll feel freer to experiment with techniques, papers, hand detailing ... ~mIEKAL ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 05:25:41 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: max roach, amiri baraka hour on democracynow.org today MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline an hour long tribute to max roach today with vintage clips and discussion with amiri baraka and others-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 08:38:17 -0400 Reply-To: tyrone williams Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tyrone williams Subject: Re: Naipaul on Walcott Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Not at all a surprise...and in the interest of "balanced" reporting, I should note that during the interview I asked Walcott about his assessment of the relationship between Negritiude and the Harlem Renaissance. He claimed--live, on stage, to have never heard of the latter...ASdmittedly, as I noted, he is frail, but still... Tyrone -----Original Message----- >From: ALDON L NIELSEN >Sent: Aug 26, 2007 4:11 PM >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Naipaul on Walcott > >"I had no feeling for poetry." > >Did that come as a surprise to anybody? > >I remember the reaction of C.L.R. James, who had been an early champion of >Naipaul, to the publication of AN AREA OF DARKNESS. "The only area of >darkness," said James, "is in Vidia's mind." > >On Sat, Aug 25, 2007 06:59 PM, Barry Schwabsky >wrote: > >> >> >>I may be the only person on this list who finds Derek Walcott of interest, but >if there's another one out there, you should read this rather astonishing piece >about him by V.S. Naipaul: >http://books.guardian.co.uk/departments/biography/story/0,,2155646,00.html > > > > ><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >We are enslaved by >what makes us free -- intolerable >paradox at the heart of speech. >--Robert Kelly > >Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > >Aldon L. Nielsen >Kelly Professor of American Literature >The Pennsylvania State University >116 Burrowes >University Park, PA 16802-6200 > >(814) 865-0091 Tyrone Williams ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 06:40:33 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alexander Jorgensen Subject: HELP A FRIEND IN EXILE: NEW BOOK BY KATHUP TSERING Comments: To: Heidi Arnold , Raymond Bianchi , Daniel Bradley , David-Baptiste Chirot , Pen Creeley , Geoffrey Gatza , Daniel Godston , Niels hav , Matt Henriksen , k , Amy King , Ruth Lepson , Jonathan Litton , Alan Magayne-Roshak , Steve Nessen , Harry Nudel , Patrick , Deborah Poe , Charlie Rossiter , Philip Rowland , Lillian Stapleton , suspend@earthlink.net, Mark Young In-Reply-To: <60FBBB3A-0354-4512-93AC-9D75B5AF6AD1@mwt.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit BUY THIS BOOK. http://books.lulu.com/content/1142809 Regards, Alexander Jorgensen mIEKAL aND wrote: fonts: make your own. get a copy of FontLab. there's nothing more fun, frustrating, intriguing than designing a font specific to a work. or simpler still, design a display font for the title, most of the time you don't even need all the letters. typewriters: I began in small press pre-desktop when the DIY typesetting machine was an IBM Selectric. You were really hot shit if you had more than 2 typeballs. page design: take the time to learn InDesign inside & out. it's overtaken Quark as the industry standard & like PhotoShop you can't really do anything original without know the software. printing: amazing things are being done with inkjet, laser printers & digital copiers, make books in small editions & most likely you'll feel freer to experiment with techniques, papers, hand detailing ... ~mIEKAL -- Marcus Aurelius: "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 09:53:12 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: EJOYCE Subject: Re: fonts, typewriters, page design, & printing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think that mIEKAL is getting back to the first question which was less on= how to design (great suggestions, by the way) or how to display= information (isn't Tufte great?), and more on whether or not anyone has= done much work on the impact of the typewriter and the Courier font on= poetry, not just on what it says but on how it looks and the impact of how= it looks on what it says. Drucker does address the look of the poem, but= does she look at this question exactly? mIEKAL says that he started with the IBM typewriter, which must have= represented the first moment of font style selection (was the default= selectric font set Times New Roman?), but many poets on this list had no= font choice (i.e., no extra selectric sets). What was the effect on poetry= of a shift from the open letter form, now seen as archaic, of Courier, to= the much more closed and formal form of Times New Roman? The only= expressive tools, too, on typewriters were capitalizations or not and= perhaps punctuation as visual mark. Word processor programs of various= sorts began to open up the font availability, but I would guess that most= poets used the default font style. I also think that word processors removed features available with= typewriters, like removing a sheet of paper and re-entering it with= different placement, or positiioning the paper exactly so that a letter or= letter group could be placed on the page in a very specific space. With= word processing, it became impossible to overlap lines or letters, but= also, I suspect that the hyphen practically disappeared. Not everyone used= hyphens with typewriters, but just leaving a word unfinished at the end of= a line set up a moment of hesitation that automatic word wrap removes. I suspect, too, that few poets use (or perhaps in early word processing,= did use) layout programs, for they were only available on Apple computers= and were prohibitively expensive. It is these programs that mIEKAL= lists--Quark and InDesign, especially--that permit font style and size= choice and letter/word/line placement to an exact degree. To what degree= are poets using these tools? I wonder if early word processing created a dearth or at least a radical= change in concret poetry forms. Lisa Joyce On Monday, August 27, 2007 12:18 AM, mIEKAL aND wrote: > >Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 23:18:06 -0500 >From: mIEKAL aND >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: fonts, typewriters, page design, & printing > >fonts: make your own. get a copy of FontLab. there's nothing more >fun, frustrating, intriguing than designing a font specific to a >work. or simpler still, design a display font for the title, most of >the time you don't even need all the letters. > >typewriters: I began in small press pre-desktop when the DIY >typesetting machine was an IBM Selectric. You were really hot shit >if you had more than 2 typeballs. > >page design: take the time to learn InDesign inside & out. it's >overtaken Quark as the industry standard & like PhotoShop you can't >really do anything original without know the software. > >printing: amazing things are being done with inkjet, laser printers & >digital copiers, make books in small editions & most likely you'll >feel freer to experiment with techniques, papers, hand detailing ... > >~mIEKAL ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:00:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: fonts, typewriters, page design, & printing In-Reply-To: <1188158193.46d1daf119f1a@webmail.nd.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed The bibliography is endless, as Charles' posts demonstrate. But I don't know of any work on the geneologies and differences. It's pretty recent--most of the players are still active. Charles? Mark At 03:56 PM 8/26/2007, you wrote: >This is interesting Mark. Any advice on finding out more about letterpress >schools and differences? It seems necessity would curve these >differences or is >there more? > >Another good read in the basics might include Frederick Goudy's professional >autobiography: "The Alphabet: Fifteen Interpretive Designs." > > >Quoting Mark Weiss : > > > There's a tendency to skip the basics. This list would make most > > beginners pack up and go home. > > > > But as long as we're at it, look at a lot of old books. Two that come > > to mind are the Van krimpen Homer and the Eric Gill Hamlet. Actually, > > anything by Gill or Van Krimpen. Not to speak of William Morris. And > > all the way back to medieval manuscripts. > > > > And just so that you know there are different schools of letterpress, > > check out (in rare book collections) Leonard Baskin's Gehenna Press > > and Andrew Hoyem's Arion Press. With Perishable Press, they've > > spawned much of the subsequent crop of letterpress designers and > > printers, and represent quite different ways of going about it. They > > of course share many things, most important a fanatical attention to > > detail and quality of impression. > > > > Mark > > > > At 06:39 PM 8/25/2007, you wrote: > > >Bringhurst may be OK, but he's quite conservative as a typographic > > >theorist, and that should be kept in mind. Make sure you counter him > > >with various sources of futurist typography, etc. Johanna Drucker > > >has one or two books on those subjects, as well as her massive The > > >Century of Artist's Books. I haven't found any book specifically on > > >typography that has influenced me as much in type work (typesetting, > > >page design, etc.) as many books of poetry, such as Olson's Maximus > > >(the original volumes, not so much the California Press edition), > > >the Awede Press Susan Howe book The Articulation of Sound Forms in > > >Time, Mallarme's Un Coup de Des . . ., the works of Walter Hamady's > > >Perishable Press (particularly early books of that press, previous > > >to about 1978 or so), and far too many other books to mention, and > > >not only "fine press" books. Karl Young's books from Membrane Press > > >are a marvel of possibilities, and various bpNichol publications are > > >informative. Something Else Press books are a treasure trove of > > >possibilities. And there are so many more. > > > > > >charles > > > > > >At 09:51 AM 8/25/2007, you wrote: > > >>Robert Bringhurst, Elements of Typographic Style > > >> > > >>At 10:02 AM 8/25/2007, you wrote: > > >>>Even if you're not a type geek the Helvetica film will seduce you--great > > >>>soundtrack to boot. There's a short bibliography on the DIY page at the > > >>>Cuneiform Press site that I think people with a literary (rather than > > >>>strictly graphic arts) background might enjoy. Charles > Bernstein's Textual > > >>>Conditions syllabus is a great 'survey' as well. > > >>> > > >>>Kyle > > >>>______________ > > >>>Kyle Schlesinger > > >>>www.kyleschlesinger.com > > >>>www.cuneiformpress.com > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > From: Daniel Godston > > >>> > Reply-To: > > >>> > Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 18:38:14 -0500 > > >>> > To: > > >>> > Subject: fonts, typewriters, page design, & printing > > >>> > > > >>> > Hi, > > >>> > > > >>> > Can any of you recommend some good books & other sources about fonts, > > >>> > typewriters, page design, & printing? > > >>> > > > >>> > I just bought Darren Wershler-Henry's "The Iron Whim: A > > >>> Fragmented History > > >>> > of Typewriting," just started it. Here's the NPR interview with DWH: > > >>> > http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=12900006. > > >>> > > > >>> > Jaroslav Andel's "Avant-Garde Page Design 1900-1950" is an > > >>> amazing book, and > > >>> > so is Steven Clay & Rodney Phillips' "A Secret Location on the Lower > > East > > >>> > Side." > > >>> > > > >>> > Then there's "Helvetica," the movie: http://www.helveticafilm.com/. > > >>> > > > >>> > Thanks, > > >>> > > > >>> > Dan > > > > > >charles alexander / chax press > > > > > >fold the book inside the book keep it open always > > > read from the inside out speak then > > > > > >Chax Press > > >520-620-1626 (studio) > > >520-275-4330 (cell) > > >chax@theriver.com > > >chax.org > > >650 E. 9th St. > > >Tucson, AZ 85705 > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:13:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: susan maurer Subject: beautiful quote MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Must share this beautiful quote." Susan Maurer seals the broken heart in a = snowdance that startles as it falls.Her poems cascade in suspense, like sha= dows in a blizzard. " Thanks to Star Black for this about my Poets Wear Pra= da"s RAPTOR RHAPSODY. Susan Maurer _________________________________________________________________ See what you=92re getting into=85before you go there http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=3DTXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview_0507= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 12:18:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Re: "This Feeling of Exaltation" John Ashbery's 80th Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed The poster for the John Ashbery Bard celebration -- with people, places, and times --is now up at http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/bernstein/blog/#08-27-07 Also, Ashbery is featured in a New York Times article today: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/27/books/27laur.html He's been named Poet Laureate of a new college-student oriented MTV channel. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 08:18:15 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander Subject: Re: fonts, typewriters, page design, & printing In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20070827095804.05636818@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Not only are most of the players still active, but many of them, across genealogies, are friends, or know each other, and are influenced by each other's work. Plus, people influenced by Walter Hamady may also be influenced by Harry Duncan and Claire Van Vliet. Some people came into Hamady's sphere already with more of a Harry Duncan kind of sensibility, and vice versa. Even before the computer, the 1960s through 1980s were a time of lots of communication among people with different training, and that communication continues. While there are students of Duncan who want to be as much like Duncan as possible (in style, aesthetic, etc.), there are probably many more who took the tools Duncan gave them and went very much their own direction with it. The same is true with Hamady students, and, I would guess, with those who began under the influence of Hoyem or Baskin or Van Vliet. Many of the students of these people also have worked extensively in various centers for book arts, i.e. Center for Book Arts in New York, Minnesota Center for Book Arts, programs at University of the Arts in Philadelphia, Nexus Press (no longer active) in Atlanta, San Francisco Center for the Book, etc., picking up other influences and cross-fertilizations of their work. I would imagine that a work on current schools and differences would be very challenging to write, though it would be possible to trace out who studied with who, etc. One of the telling differences for me is among those people who consider themselves book makers, i.e. responsible for the whole of the book (not content, necessarily, but materials choice, structure of the book, typography, binding, etc.), and those who consider themselves specialists, i.e. letterpress printers OR hand bookbinders OR hand papermakers, etc. And while the Hamady school certainly encourages the artist as total bookmaker, it is also true that sometimes Walter Hamady himself worked with master bookbinders such as Bill Anthony. When I was directing Minnesota Center for Book Arts in the mid-1990s, one of my first big surprises was how specialized the artists/craftspeople in that community considered themselves within a specific area of book arts, whereas I had studied with Hamady and was used to artists taking on the whole of the bookmaking project, not just a part of it. This all gets more complicated as more people, from any and all of the schools of handmade booking, began working with computers and the possibilities of design that computers brought along. Charles At 07:00 AM 8/27/2007, you wrote: >The bibliography is endless, as Charles' posts demonstrate. But I >don't know of any work on the geneologies and differences. It's >pretty recent--most of the players are still active. Charles? > >Mark > > >At 03:56 PM 8/26/2007, you wrote: >>This is interesting Mark. Any advice on finding out more about letterpress >>schools and differences? It seems necessity would curve these >>differences or is >>there more? >> >>Another good read in the basics might include Frederick Goudy's professional >>autobiography: "The Alphabet: Fifteen Interpretive Designs." >> >> >>Quoting Mark Weiss : >> >> > There's a tendency to skip the basics. This list would make most >> > beginners pack up and go home. >> > >> > But as long as we're at it, look at a lot of old books. Two that come >> > to mind are the Van krimpen Homer and the Eric Gill Hamlet. Actually, >> > anything by Gill or Van Krimpen. Not to speak of William Morris. And >> > all the way back to medieval manuscripts. >> > >> > And just so that you know there are different schools of letterpress, >> > check out (in rare book collections) Leonard Baskin's Gehenna Press >> > and Andrew Hoyem's Arion Press. With Perishable Press, they've >> > spawned much of the subsequent crop of letterpress designers and >> > printers, and represent quite different ways of going about it. They >> > of course share many things, most important a fanatical attention to >> > detail and quality of impression. >> > >> > Mark >> > >> > At 06:39 PM 8/25/2007, you wrote: >> > >Bringhurst may be OK, but he's quite conservative as a typographic >> > >theorist, and that should be kept in mind. Make sure you counter him >> > >with various sources of futurist typography, etc. Johanna Drucker >> > >has one or two books on those subjects, as well as her massive The >> > >Century of Artist's Books. I haven't found any book specifically on >> > >typography that has influenced me as much in type work (typesetting, >> > >page design, etc.) as many books of poetry, such as Olson's Maximus >> > >(the original volumes, not so much the California Press edition), >> > >the Awede Press Susan Howe book The Articulation of Sound Forms in >> > >Time, Mallarme's Un Coup de Des . . ., the works of Walter Hamady's >> > >Perishable Press (particularly early books of that press, previous >> > >to about 1978 or so), and far too many other books to mention, and >> > >not only "fine press" books. Karl Young's books from Membrane Press >> > >are a marvel of possibilities, and various bpNichol publications are >> > >informative. Something Else Press books are a treasure trove of >> > >possibilities. And there are so many more. >> > > >> > >charles >> > > >> > >At 09:51 AM 8/25/2007, you wrote: >> > >>Robert Bringhurst, Elements of Typographic Style >> > >> >> > >>At 10:02 AM 8/25/2007, you wrote: >> > >>>Even if you're not a type geek the Helvetica film will seduce >> you--great >> > >>>soundtrack to boot. There's a short bibliography on the DIY page at the >> > >>>Cuneiform Press site that I think people with a literary (rather than >> > >>>strictly graphic arts) background might enjoy. Charles >> Bernstein's Textual >> > >>>Conditions syllabus is a great 'survey' as well. >> > >>> >> > >>>Kyle >> > >>>______________ >> > >>>Kyle Schlesinger >> > >>>www.kyleschlesinger.com >> > >>>www.cuneiformpress.com >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> > From: Daniel Godston >> > >>> > Reply-To: >> > >>> > Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 18:38:14 -0500 >> > >>> > To: >> > >>> > Subject: fonts, typewriters, page design, & printing >> > >>> > >> > >>> > Hi, >> > >>> > >> > >>> > Can any of you recommend some good books & other sources >> about fonts, >> > >>> > typewriters, page design, & printing? >> > >>> > >> > >>> > I just bought Darren Wershler-Henry's "The Iron Whim: A >> > >>> Fragmented History >> > >>> > of Typewriting," just started it. Here's the NPR interview with DWH: >> > >>> > http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=12900006. >> > >>> > >> > >>> > Jaroslav Andel's "Avant-Garde Page Design 1900-1950" is an >> > >>> amazing book, and >> > >>> > so is Steven Clay & Rodney Phillips' "A Secret Location on the Lower >> > East >> > >>> > Side." >> > >>> > >> > >>> > Then there's "Helvetica," the movie: http://www.helveticafilm.com/. >> > >>> > >> > >>> > Thanks, >> > >>> > >> > >>> > Dan >> > > >> > >charles alexander / chax press >> > > >> > >fold the book inside the book keep it open always >> > > read from the inside out speak then >> > > >> > >Chax Press >> > >520-620-1626 (studio) >> > >520-275-4330 (cell) >> > >chax@theriver.com >> > >chax.org >> > >650 E. 9th St. >> > >Tucson, AZ 85705 >> > > charles alexander / chax press fold the book inside the book keep it open always read from the inside out speak then Chax Press 520-620-1626 (studio) 520-275-4330 (cell) chax@theriver.com chax.org 650 E. 9th St. Tucson, AZ 85705 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 08:15:49 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: Dream Songs? In-Reply-To: <670859.25201.qm@web53704.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I read Dream Songs many years ago and was fascinated with it. Then, somehow, I tired of it. Maybe I need to read it again, who knows? The poet of Berryman's generation who fascinates me at the moment is Muriel Rukeyser. (Am I generationally correct here?) I've had her Collected in my home for decades but could never get the key I needed into it. I found it this weekend. It's a great poem called, appropriately enough, "The Key". Regards, Tom Savage Amish Trivedi wrote: David, et. al., Before I go further, I'm a huge fan of DS #22- "a teenage cancer, with a plan" Personally, I like it a lot more than Leaves of Grass, although they are pretty similar in a lot of ways. I find them both self-serving for their particular poets as well as an interesting chronicle to the periods in which they were living (I have a paper on DS about this point, but it's awfully executed). JB's such a strange guy with his own mixed up views on himself and everything around him, and that to me ends up being the humor in DS, which to an extent may have been a conscious attempt. I have bought several copies, but only one for myself: I've given two to friends and one to a college literary society I was a member of in my younger and more vulnerable days. David: Go get sucked into JB's world and report back! Best, Amish David Horton wrote: Hi all, I'm not quite sure what happened but I have actually recommended twice within the month that two of my non-poet friends read the *Dream Songs*. They were both looking for good reads, and this was the first thing that came to mind. It forced me to pick up my third copy I've owned--this is a book that I give away on moves and then rebuy shortly after--and song #14 (Life, friends, is boring...), while making its way into all those anthologies and being a good stand alone poem and all, does little justice to the overall accruing strength of the whole. It may not be at the level of *Leaves of Grass, *the *Cantos, or A*, but I need to reread the thing and consider why I think this *might* be the case. Thoughts? David Harrison Horton unionherald.blogspot.com "Christopher Columbus, as everyone knows, is honored by posterity because he was the last to discover America." -James Joyce --------------------------------- Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 11:20:05 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Kelleher Subject: Literary Buffalo E-Newsletter 8.27.07-9.02.07 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable LITERARY BUFFALO 8.27.07-9.02.07 BABEL 4 DAYS LEFT TO GET EARLY BIRD MEMBER SUBSCRIPTION RATES FOR BABEL We have sold more than 30% of the series already=21 Get your tickets while = they last. SUBSCRIBE TODAY at http://www.justbuffalo.org/babel or by calling 832-5400. Just Buffalo Literary Center is proud to introduce BABEL, an exciting new r= eading and conversation series that will feature four of the world's most i= mportant and critically acclaimed international authors each year. In our first season, we will present two Nobel Prize winners, one Man Booke= r Prize winner, and an acclaimed Broadway playwright. Here's the season in = a nutshell: November 8 Orhan Pamuk, Turkey, Winner of the 2006 Nobel Prize December 7 Ariel Dorfman, Chile, Author of Death and the Maiden March 13 Derek Walcott, St. Lucia, Winner of the 1992 Nobel Prize April 24 Kiran Desai, India, Winner of the 2006 Man Booker Prize Members of Just Buffalo/CEPA Gallery/Big Orbit Gallery, Hallwalls and the I= nternational Institute of Buffalo can subscribe to this series at an early = bird member discount from now until September 1 at a special member rate of= =2460. Book groups (minimum three people) can also subscribe at a special rate of = =2460 per person for the whole season. Book group subscriptions by phone on= ly at 832-5400. Regular subscriptions are just =2475. To subscribe or to find out more about the authors, click here: http://www.justbuffalo.org/babel. EVENTS 8.26.07 Spoken Word Sundays Aaron Lowinger and Lovely Sunday, September 2, 8 p.m. Allen Street Hardware, 245 Allen St., Buffalo Sign up at 7:45 for Open readers (5 minutes each) JUST BUFFALO WRITER'S CRITIQUE GROUP =21=21=21 WRITER CRITIQUE GROUP IS ON SUMMER HIATUS. WE'LL RETURN IN SEPTEM= BER =21=21=21 Members of Just Buffalo are welcome to attend a free, bi-monthly writer cri= tique group in CEPA's Flux Gallery on the first floor of the historic Marke= t Arcade Building across the street from Shea's. Group meets 1st and 3rd We= dnesday at 7 p.m. Call Just Buffalo for details. WESTERN NEW YORK ROMANCE WRITERS group meets the third Wednesday of every m= onth at St. Joseph Hospital community room at 11a.m. Address: 2605 Harlem R= oad, Cheektowaga, NY 14225. For details go to www.wnyrw.org. JOIN JUST BUFFALO ONLINE=21=21=21 If you would like to join Just Buffalo, or simply make a massive personal d= onation, you can do so online using your credit card. We have recently add= ed the ability to join online by paying with a credit card through PayPal. = Simply click on the membership level at which you would like to join, log = in (or create a PayPal account using your Visa/Amex/Mastercard/Discover), a= nd voil=E1, you will find yourself in literary heaven. For more info, or t= o join now, go to our website: http://www.justbuffalo.org/membership/index.shtml UNSUBSCRIBE If you would like to unsubscribe from this list, just say so and you will b= e immediately removed. _______________________________ Michael Kelleher Artistic Director Just Buffalo Literary Center Market Arcade 617 Main St., Ste. 202A Buffalo, NY 14203 716.832.5400 716.270.0184 (fax) www.justbuffalo.org mjk=40justbuffalo.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 11:37:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: "An 80-Year-Old Poet for the MTV Generation" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 An odd bit of news in today's TIMES -- In some ways more of a surprise than the Attorney General's resignation -- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We are enslaved by what makes us free -- intolerable paradox at the heart of speech. --Robert Kelly Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 11:41:44 -0400 Reply-To: pmetres@jcu.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Philip Metres Subject: New on Behind the Lines: Poetry, War, & Peacemaking MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Rm9sa3MsIA0KDQpyZWNlbnQgcG9zdGluZ3Mgb24gaHR0cDovL3d3dy5iZWhpbmR0aGVsaW5l c3BvZXRyeS5ibG9nc3BvdC5jb20gDQoNCkxhd3JlbmNlIEpvc2VwaCdzICJTYW5kIE5pZ2dl ciwiICJBYm91dCBUaGlzLCIgYW5kICJMYXdyZW5jZSBKb3NlcGgncyAiU2FuZCBOaWdnZXIs IiAiQWJvdXQgVGhpcywiIGFuZCAiTmV3cyBCYWNrIEZ1cnRoZXIgVGhhbiBUaGF0Ii9Qb2V0 cnkgQWZ0ZXIgIlRoZSBHYW1lIENoYW5nZWQiIA0KDQpHcmFjZSBQYWxleSwgV2FyIFJlc2lz dGVyLCBQZWFjZSBBY3RpdmlzdCwgUmVzdCBpbiBQZWFjZSANCg0KTWljaGVsbGUgRGV0b3Jp ZSdzICJiaXJkYm94IiBhbmQgb3RoZXIgaHlwZXJ0ZXh0IHBvZW1zL1RoZSANClVuZGVydGV4 dCBvZiBXYXIgDQoNCkRhdmlkLUJhcHRpc3RlIENoaXJvdCBvbiB0aGUgR3VhbnRhbmFtbyBQ b2VtcyANCg0KQW5vdGhlciBUYWtlIG9uIHRoZSBHdWFudGFuYW1vIFBvZW1zL0RhbiBDaGlh c3NvbidzIFJldmlldyANCg0KIkpvaG4gTGVubm9uJ3MgIkdpdmUgUGVhY2UgYSBDaGFuY2Ui L0EgVXNlYWJsZSBQYXN0PyANCg0KIm15IGdvZCIgYnkgU3RldmUgRGFsYWNoaW5za3kvVGhl IElsbC1sb2dpY3Mgb2YgV2FyIA0KDQoiT24gUG9saXRpY2FsIFBvZXRyeSIgYnkgRmFyaWRl aCBIYXNzYW56YWRlaOKAkyANCg0KTW9zdGFmYXZpL0Fkcmllbm5lIFJpY2ggYW5kIFNhbSBI YW1pbGwgU3RlcCBVcCB0byB0aGUgQm9hcmQsIEJpbGx5IENvbGxpbnMgVGFrZXMgdGhlIFpl cm8gDQoNCkppbSBBbmRyZXdzIG9uIFBvZXRyeSBhbmQgUGVhY2VtYWtpbmcvSG93IFZpc3Bv IENhbWUgdG8gSG9zdCBQUklNRSANCg0KQ0FDb25yYWQncyBIYWlyIGFuZCB0aGUgV2FyIGlu IElyYXEgDQoNClJ1dGggTGVwc29uJ3MgIml0IG5ldmVyIGdvZXMgYXdheSBjb21wbGV0ZWx5 IiANCg0KQW5vdGhlciBMb29rIEluc2lkZSB0aGUgUXVhZ21pcmUgb2YgRGljayBDaGVuZXkn cyBNaW5kIA0KDQpHYXJ5IExhd2xlc3MsIE15IEtpbmQgb2YgU29sZGllciANCg0KS2V2aW4g UHJ1ZmVyJ3MgIlBhdHJpb3QgTWlzc2lsZSIvQmVjb21pbmcgdGhlIEJvbWIgKGFnYWluISkg DQoNCkdhcnkgU3VsbGl2YW4ncyAiTXkgUHJvYmxlbXMgd2l0aCBGbGFyZiIvQSBQb2V0aWNz IA0KDQpEcmV3IEdhcmRuZXIncyAiQ2hpY2tzIERpZyBXYXIiL0lzIEZsYXJmICJTY29yY2hp bmcgSXJvbnkgb3IgTGl2aW5nIFRocm91Z2ggdGhlIEZhbnRhc3k/IiANCg0KRnVnYXppJ3Mg IlR1cm5vdmVyIi9XYXJzIEFicm9hZCwgV2FycyBhdCBIb21lIA0KDQoiQmVoaW5kIHRoZSBM aW5lcyIgcmV2aWV3IGluIFBFQUNFV09SSyANCg0KR3VpZGVkIGJ5IFZvaWNlcycgIkV2ZXJ5 d2hlcmUgd2l0aCBIZWxpY29wdGVyIiANCg0KU29tZSBUaG91Z2h0cyBvbiAiT3BlcmF0aW9u IEhvbWVjb21pbmciIA0KDQoNCg0KRmVlbCBmcmVlIHRvIHNlbmQgbWUgYW55dGhpbmcgb2Yg dGhpcyBpbGs7IGJvb2tzIHRvIHJldmlldywgZXRjLiANCg0KDQpQaGlsaXAgTWV0cmVzDQpB c3NvY2lhdGUgUHJvZmVzc29yDQpEZXBhcnRtZW50IG9mIEVuZ2xpc2gNCkpvaG4gQ2Fycm9s bCBVbml2ZXJzaXR5DQoyMDcwMCBOLiBQYXJrIEJsdmQNClVuaXZlcnNpdHkgSGVpZ2h0cywg T0ggNDQxMTgNCnBob25lOiAoMjE2KSAzOTctNDUyOCAod29yaykNCmZheDogKDIxNikgMzk3 LTE3MjMNCmh0dHA6Ly93d3cucGhpbGlwbWV0cmVzLmNvbQ0KaHR0cDovL3d3dy5iZWhpbmR0 aGVsaW5lc3BvZXRyeS5ibG9nc3BvdC5jb20NCg== ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 09:02:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander Subject: Mary Rising Higgins Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Mary Rising Higgins died last night, August 26, about 7pm. I know she was in hospice care, but I don't know the details of her medical condition. Her books in recent years: Cliff Tides (Singing Horse Press, 2005), Locus Tides (Potes & Poets Press, 2003), O'Clock (Potes & Poets Press, 2000), Red Table(s (La Alameda Press, 1999), presented an amazing body of work over a short period of time. I felt lucky to know her and hear her read her work. charles alexander / chax press fold the book inside the book keep it open always read from the inside out speak then Chax Press 520-620-1626 (studio) 520-275-4330 (cell) chax@theriver.com chax.org 650 E. 9th St. Tucson, AZ 85705 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 12:04:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christopher Leland Winks Subject: Re: Naipaul on Walcott In-Reply-To: <238281.84883.qm@web86011.mail.ird.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Barry - Well, there's myself at least -- I've taught "Omeros" twice and keep coming back to "The Schooner Flight," perhaps his finest work. And the Naipaul piece is indeed "astonishing" -- the mere fact Vidia would write anything about ANY Caribbean writer today is worthy of note. ----- Original Message ----- From: Barry Schwabsky Date: Sunday, August 26, 2007 2:03 am Subject: Naipaul on Walcott To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > I may be the only person on this list who finds Derek Walcott of > interest, but if there's another one out there, you should read this > rather astonishing piece about him by V.S. Naipaul: http://books.guardian.co.uk/departments/biography/story/0,,2155646,00.html > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 09:20:02 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jennifer Karmin Subject: JOB: Shippensburg University MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit (this is a forward so please don't respond to me. good luck!) Tenure-track assistant professor in Creative Writing (Poetry), full-time appointment beginning August 2008. MFA or PhD required by time of appointment. Candidates must demonstrate a commitment to teaching, service, and professional activity including published poetry (preferably a book). Twelve-hour course load each semester will include creative writing, other courses in the English major, and general education courses, with course reduction available for advising the student literary magazine. Additional teaching expertise in creative nonfiction and/or literary study desirable. The committee will request writing samples from selected candidates and may meet with these candidates at MLA. On-campus interviews will include a demonstration of teaching effectiveness and a brief poetry reading. Submit letter of application, curriculum vitae, undergraduate and graduate transcripts, and three letters of reference to: Michael Bibby, Chair Creative Writing Search Committee Department of English Shippensburg University 1871 Old Main Drive Shippensburg, PA 17257 Review of applications begins November 2, 2007, and will continue until the position is filled. For more information about the Department of English and Shippensburg University, see http://webspace.ship.edu/english/. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool. http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 09:43:22 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Re: "An 80-Year-Old Poet for the MTV Generation" In-Reply-To: <1188229066l.262160l.0l@psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks for this info, Aldon! Access the article at the Int'l Herald Tribune w/out a login here: http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/08/27/arts/27laur.php ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: An odd bit of news in today's TIMES -- In some ways more of a surprise than the Attorney General's resignation -- --------------------------------- Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 11:54:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Stumpf Subject: Pura Lopez-Colome's Aurora Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed I am writing to announce the publication of my translation of Pura=20 L=C3=B3pez-Colom=C3=A9's Aurora. Read all about it here: http://www.shearsman.com/pages/books/catalog/2007/lopezcol.html or here: http://jasonstumpf.blogspot.com Composed of five extended sequences, Aurora contemplates the pacts we=20 make with ourselves, others, and nature in order to survive. The poems=20= explore what happens when those bonds of trust and dependence are=20 weakened or broken by infidelity, death, and time. In her writing,=20 L=C3=B3pez-Colom=C3=A9 combines a highly associative lyrical sensibility = with an=20 insistence on philosophical exactness. Of the collection, Michael Palmer writes, =E2=80=9CPura = L=C3=B3pez-Colom=C3=A9=E2=80=99s poems=20 trace spare, vibrant arcs between the realms of matter and spirit,=20 illuminating each with the light of the other. By means of a quiet yet=20= fervent lyricism, at once celebratory and elegiac, they set out again=20 and again on a voyage beyond self towards a site perhaps impossible=20 fully to determine: mare magnum, 'first scene / of the next day.' It is=20= our privilege indeed to be invited along.=E2=80=9D Best, Jason Stumpf - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Jason Stumpf jason.t.stumpf@gmail.com http://jasonstumpf.blogspot.com= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 17:52:17 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barry Schwabsky Subject: Re: "An 80-Year-Old Poet for the MTV Generation" In-Reply-To: <400967.98095.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I agree that his poetry resonates with a lot of contemporary music...not that its necessarily played on MTV...but for instance I remember Stephen Malkmus in an interview specifically citing Ashbery as an inspiration. amy king wrote: Thanks for this info, Aldon! Access the article at the Int'l Herald Tribune w/out a login here: http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/08/27/arts/27laur.php ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: An odd bit of news in today's TIMES -- In some ways more of a surprise than the Attorney General's resignation -- --------------------------------- Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:44:53 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Crane's Bill Books Subject: Re: fonts, typewriters, page design, & printing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It's a bit far afield of the design question, but Walter J. Ong's = ORALITY AND LITERACY: THE TECHNOLOGIZING OF THE WORD deals with, among = many other good things, how the printed word and the printed page have = influenced ideas about what language is and what is should do. I found = it pretty remarkable. Kyle Schlesinger's Cuneiform Press issued a lovely essay by Alan Loney, = MEDITATIO: THE PRINTER PRINTED: MANIFESTO. Sadly, no longer in print. Jeffrey J. A. Lee Crane's Bill Books Albuquerque www.torriblezone.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:36:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve russell Subject: Re: Dream songs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I loved Dream Songs. I'm not sure whether it's a legit long poem, or a series of monologues. But it is brilliant. Berryman never played it safe. He was always reinventing his verse. Too few poets do this anymore. Louis Gluck, in a very different fashion, does it, which is why she's among a dozen or so major poets still writing. --------------------------------- Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 12:40:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Bell Subject: old folks can write too MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am doing a course for old folks liie me at a local senior center and looking for a text book. Ideas? tom bell ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 11:04:28 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Re: "An 80-Year-Old Poet for the MTV Generation" In-Reply-To: <938866.78169.qm@web86004.mail.ird.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Not music, but well known actor, David Duchovny often cites Ashbery in interviews as his fave poet. I think he studied his poetry (w H Bloom?) toward earning his grad degree. From a Movieline interview: "My editor thought you might take a look at this," I say, removing a wad of disorganized fax pages from my bag. Duchovny takes a page and reads aloud: "As Parmigianino did it, the right hand bigger than the head, thrust at the viewer and swerving easily away, as though to protect what it advertises..." He starts to laugh. "Jesus, this is one of my favourite poems. How did she know? It's called Self-Portrait in a Convex Mirror by John Ashbery. It's about a man who's painting a self-portrait, but he's looking into a mirrored ball, and the closer he gets to it, the further away his image seems to be going. For me, that would be the acting style that I'm trying to do. I'm trying to protect what I advertise. That's my stance on any kind of self-expression. That's as far as I need to go." He pauses, then says, "You could look at this poem for weeks, just weeks." http://www.fortunecity.com/lavendar/gilliams/12/movieline.htm Amyhttp://www.amyking.org/blog Barry Schwabsky wrote: I agree that his poetry resonates with a lot of contemporary music...not that its necessarily played on MTV...but for instance I remember Stephen Malkmus in an interview specifically citing Ashbery as an inspiration. amy king wrote: Thanks for this info, Aldon! Access the article at the Int'l Herald Tribune w/out a login here: http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/08/27/arts/27laur.php ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: An odd bit of news in today's TIMES -- In some ways more of a surprise than the Attorney General's resignation -- --------------------------------- Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 23:03:20 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: Disarming the teaching of history in Israel and Palestine MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi David, Dan Bar-On of PRIME responded to your email. I forward it below. I sent it earlier, but I didn't see it posted to Poetics; I guess the system hiccuped or something. I hope this finds you well! ja http://vispo.com/PRIME I find David's question more of a statement than a question. There is no doubt that the situation of the group is very bad, and I agree with most of David's statement that we have to move as fast as possible to craete a Palestinian state, and if there is a way (he as a poet) can help to change the politics of our region, I would be more than happy. When I ask myself what I can do, but shout at my government, try to convince others to do so, I try to do something that can help and change the minds of the people, mainly the young ones to stop dehumanizing the other, and understand that their historical narrative is meaningful for them, what drives it and how can the two be incorporated together. Yes, we are working, and you can see several things we did lately, and are doing to make our work wider spread. We got more funding in the meantme, from the State Department through the AU in DC, and now also from the European Union, through the Eckert Institute in Germany. We need a lot more funding to make our book more wide spread, and develop two additional projects we have in mind. Thank you for your interest and I hope you can help us too. Yours Dan > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of David Chirot > Sent: August 20, 2007 3:15 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Disarming the teaching of history in Israel and Palestine > > > Dear Jim-- > > does this organization still exist? > > trying to learn more of it online, the last dated entries for it i can > find are from October 2005 > > i noted on the information at your site that of phases listed as > having been completed, the last one seems to be 2004. > > The funding for the first three years is listed as from the US State > Department and Ford Foundation. > > Most of what is at the site seems to be about proposals, rather than > actual current or recent events. Is there any way to find out what the > current status is? > > East Jerusalem, mentioned in one of the articles as being the source > for a student quote, is now almost impossible for Palestinians from > the outside to enter. The new "Separation" road on which Palestians > are allowed to travel on the other side of a Wall --painted to > simulate mosaics--has only three exits in toto, none for East > Jerusalem. > (The road was featured in a front page story on the NY Times as i > recall 11 august 2007.) > > The Wall, Security Fences, "Settlers Only" roads, continual > checkpoints and the annual growth rate in numbers of the illegal > settler population now exceeding that of Israel itself, have all put > so many obstacles in the way of Palestinians attending schools, tech > schools and Universities that the educational system for Palestinians, > along with everything else, is in ruins. (500, 000 in the West Bank > currently receive 67% of the amount of water per person per year > considered the minimum for human survival. 80% of Gaza is on the > verge of starvation. Demolitions, arrests, beatings, deaths from IDF > and settlers occur on a daily basis. Amnesty International has issued > Ethnic Cleansing calls for a stop a few days ago in the Jordan Valley. > The Knesset is debating a law prohibiting Israeli Abba citizens from > purchasing their own land from the National Public Lands in Israel. ) > Just to get to a still existing school is becoming prohibitively > difficult, as well as more and more dangerous. (Amnesty International > reported that of 124 Palestinian children killed last year, 80 were > due to sniper fire from the IDF or settlers. The children's fatal > wounds were in the area of the upper back and neck at base of the > skull. They had been shot from behind, execution style.) > A great number of schools throughout the Occupied Territories have > also been bulldozed, or appropriated by the IDF for surveillance > posts, or given to settlers to use for other purposes. > > Education to bring understanding and a desire for peace is being > destroyed, while the seeds of hate, despair, death, are being sown. > > Inside the Walled off out door prisons, without water, starving, shot > at, bombed, homes, hospitals, schools demolished, electricity long > gone, continually threatened and bullied, arrested, disappeared, if > the prisoners turn against themselves, all the better for the warders. > > Meanwhile, the Occupiers, the only nuclear power in the Mideast, now > the world's 4th largest exporter of weapons and security systems, > technologies, equipment will be receiving over 3 billion dollars a > year more in US military aid starting shortly. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 11:19:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: "An 80-Year-Old Poet for the MTV Generation" In-Reply-To: <1188229066l.262160l.0l@psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed i'd like to see charles simic vs. john ashbery in a celebrity death match On Mon, 27 Aug 2007, ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > An odd bit of news in today's TIMES -- In some ways more of a surprise than the > Attorney General's resignation -- > > > > > > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > We are enslaved by > what makes us free -- intolerable > paradox at the heart of speech. > --Robert Kelly > > Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > > Aldon L. Nielsen > Kelly Professor of American Literature > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 11:29:22 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: old folks can write too In-Reply-To: <20070827124032.APB46186@mtsu125.mtsu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed if it's a writing course, i picked up William Packard's "The Poet's Dictionary" recently at a half price books and while it's not perfect, it had occurred to me that with all the more or less solid examples it would make a pretty good intro to writing poetry text. new it's not too pricy either, so it might be a good choice for that reason too. On Mon, 27 Aug 2007, Tom Bell wrote: > I am doing a course for old folks liie me at a local senior center and looking for a text book. Ideas? > > tom bell > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 11:38:00 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve russell Subject: Re: Old folds can write to. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The late Kenneth Koch taught poetry in nursing homes. He found it rewarding and wrote at least one book on the subject. The name of the book escapes me, but it wouldn't be hard to find. --------------------------------- Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 12:19:49 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Re: old folks can write too In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Kenneth Koch - I Never Told Anybody: Teaching Poetry Writing to Old People One review from Amazon, "This book is a must for anyone working/playing with poetry and involved in introducing others to poetry. What is most astounding is Kenneth Koch's humility and honesty, and his willingness to admit mistakes made in teaching poetry to a group of old people at a nursing home. He divides the book very usefully as well. First he introduces the process from start to finish of the workshops, including some of the seniors' works. In the second half of the book, he prints the poems done by participants for each exercise first, then discusses what occurred during the session. One participant in particular is very much a poet, although he'd never written poetry before, and I fell quite in love with him. However, as the book went to press, Kenneth says, this man passed on. You will thoroughly enjoy this book. Aside from the poetry, it has alot to say about the assumptions we make about old and/or infirm people. " http://www.amazon.com/Never-Told-Anybody-Teaching-Writing/dp/0915924536 Amy http://www.amyking.org/blog On Mon, 27 Aug 2007, Tom Bell wrote: > I am doing a course for old folks liie me at a local senior center and looking for a text book. Ideas? > > tom bell > --------------------------------- Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 15:19:33 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: Re: Old folds can write to. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The book is I Never Told Anybody: Teaching Writing in a Nursing Home. But he did, he did! He told! ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 12:51:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: old folks can write too In-Reply-To: <20070827124032.APB46186@mtsu125.mtsu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I Never Told Anybody by Kenneth Koch. It is available through Teachers & Writers Collaborative, NYC. I once used it to teach poetry in a senior center, too. Good luck to you. Keep it simple and don't insist too hard that the seniors write modern poetry unless you're a genius teacher/poet as Koch was. Regards, Tom Savage Tom Bell wrote: I am doing a course for old folks liie me at a local senior center and looking for a text book. Ideas? tom bell --------------------------------- Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 12:22:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Diane DiPrima Subject: Re: fonts, typewriters, page design, & printing In-Reply-To: <2007082713531295ea2b66df@webmail1.edinboro.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit When I had Poets Press, 1960s, there was the IBM typewriter which had "proportional spacing" but you couldn't change fonts. If you wanted another font (italics, for instance) you went to another typewriter, typed up those lines, or whatever, and then "stripped them in" to the main body of the camera copy using a light table and single edge razor & white tape. And if you wanted to justify the right hand margin you counted hairline spaces left to fill on any given line, and divvied them up amongst the words on that line, by typing the page over and hitting a hairline space bar the right number of times between each two words. In effect, you typeset every page twice. This was some time before the "Selectric Composer" with its changeable type balls, and easier justification. My first Selectric Composer cost $2700 -- more than cars in those days. Before any of this the electric typewriter itself was a great miracle, after many years of typing on huge, heavy, slow "manual" typewriters. At last you could compose as fast as, and in the rhythm of, your thought -- or so it seemed to me. I used it for prose, and actually didn't write much prose till then. For me, poetry has been a matter of the pen and the notebook, for at least sixty years. As to some of the larger questions you bring up: I think Robert Duncan has a bit to say about the typewritten page vs. the typeset page in his intro to "GroundWork: Before the War". Both volumes of GroundWork were offset from his typing. It took some work on his part to convince New Directions that that was truly how he wanted to go. Diane di Prima > From: EJOYCE > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 09:53:12 -0400 > To: > Subject: Re: fonts, typewriters, page design, & printing > > I think that mIEKAL is getting back to the first question which was less on > how to design (great suggestions, by the way) or how to display information > (isn't Tufte great?), and more on whether or not anyone has done much work on > the impact of the typewriter and the Courier font on poetry, not just on what > it says but on how it looks and the impact of how it looks on what it says. > Drucker does address the look of the poem, but does she look at this question > exactly? > > mIEKAL says that he started with the IBM typewriter, which must have > represented the first moment of font style selection (was the default > selectric font set Times New Roman?), but many poets on this list had no font > choice (i.e., no extra selectric sets). What was the effect on poetry of a > shift from the open letter form, now seen as archaic, of Courier, to the much > more closed and formal form of Times New Roman? The only expressive tools, > too, on typewriters were capitalizations or not and perhaps punctuation as > visual mark. Word processor programs of various sorts began to open up the > font availability, but I would guess that most poets used the default font > style. > > I also think that word processors removed features available with typewriters, > like removing a sheet of paper and re-entering it with different placement, or > positiioning the paper exactly so that a letter or letter group could be > placed on the page in a very specific space. With word processing, it became > impossible to overlap lines or letters, but also, I suspect that the hyphen > practically disappeared. Not everyone used hyphens with typewriters, but just > leaving a word unfinished at the end of a line set up a moment of hesitation > that automatic word wrap removes. > > I suspect, too, that few poets use (or perhaps in early word processing, did > use) layout programs, for they were only available on Apple computers and were > prohibitively expensive. It is these programs that mIEKAL lists--Quark and > InDesign, especially--that permit font style and size choice and > letter/word/line placement to an exact degree. To what degree are poets using > these tools? > > I wonder if early word processing created a dearth or at least a radical > change in concret poetry forms. > > Lisa Joyce > > > On Monday, August 27, 2007 12:18 AM, mIEKAL aND wrote: >> >> Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 23:18:06 -0500 >> From: mIEKAL aND >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: Re: fonts, typewriters, page design, & printing >> >> fonts: make your own. get a copy of FontLab. there's nothing more >> fun, frustrating, intriguing than designing a font specific to a >> work. or simpler still, design a display font for the title, most of >> the time you don't even need all the letters. >> >> typewriters: I began in small press pre-desktop when the DIY >> typesetting machine was an IBM Selectric. You were really hot shit >> if you had more than 2 typeballs. >> >> page design: take the time to learn InDesign inside & out. it's >> overtaken Quark as the industry standard & like PhotoShop you can't >> really do anything original without know the software. >> >> printing: amazing things are being done with inkjet, laser printers & >> digital copiers, make books in small editions & most likely you'll >> feel freer to experiment with techniques, papers, hand detailing ... >> >> ~mIEKAL ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 12:36:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: old folks can write too In-Reply-To: <20070827124032.APB46186@mtsu125.mtsu.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > I am doing a course for old folks liie me at a local senior center and looking > for a text book. Ideas? > > tom bell Tom, I would suggest not looking at the old as a separate - but often a more interesting species than the young. Interesting in the sense that the teaching and writing experience can be more akin to the surprises of the archeologist (where teaching the young, say, is interesting more in terms of words like 'potential', and 'future.') In the last couple of years I have been teaching older adults in communities as various as centers of folks who have not gone beyond high school (if!), to extended learning programs where the members are highly educated, retired from upper echelon careers, etc. They all got stuff. In terms of poetry, as stimulus for writing I use many of the same exercises (or improvisations on such) that work with college and other young adults - Oulipo, Teachers & Writers, Benadette, etc., etc. The exercises work to bring up stuff from various depths, histories, and humor. An adult who has worked in Civil Rights, or non-profits all her life, or an ex-Banker or a high school teacher (etc.) puts a different, often fresh angle on the envelope. The most difficult or resistant are the folks who got A's in English in college, studied with a famous Mr. Or Mrs. X, as well know the xyz's of poetry form as a religious form of conviction. Those ones can be a predictably pain in the ass, if you do things that go contrary, or bend the bow in a different direction. On quick inroad is to get people to draw maps - maps of their rooms, maps of what they remember of where they grew up. Maps create a means into getting at the images/details that are or have been most local to their lives. In terms of writing memoirs, there are no doubt road maps to get people going - and I think those classes are often quite popular, though I have not gone there. Good luck, Stephen V ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 12:38:40 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: old folks can write too In-Reply-To: <832319.82781.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I tried using this. I don't think Kenneth was really into this - as he was with the kids. There is something proforma about the approach and results. Some OK stuff, but not much that I found useful. Stephen V http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ > Kenneth Koch - I Never Told Anybody: Teaching Poetry Writing to Old People > > One review from Amazon, "This book is a must for anyone working/playing with > poetry and involved in introducing others to poetry. What is most astounding > is Kenneth Koch's humility and honesty, and his willingness to admit mistakes > made in teaching poetry to a group of old people at a nursing home. He divides > the book very usefully as well. First he introduces the process from start to > finish of the workshops, including some of the seniors' works. In the second > half of the book, he prints the poems done by participants for each exercise > first, then discusses what occurred during the session. One participant in > particular is very much a poet, although he'd never written poetry before, and > I fell quite in love with him. However, as the book went to press, Kenneth > says, this man passed on. You will thoroughly enjoy this book. Aside from the > poetry, it has alot to say about the assumptions we make about old and/or > infirm people. " > > http://www.amazon.com/Never-Told-Anybody-Teaching-Writing/dp/0915924536 > > Amy > > http://www.amyking.org/blog > > > On Mon, 27 Aug 2007, Tom Bell wrote: > >> I am doing a course for old folks liie me at a local senior center and >> looking for a text book. Ideas? >> >> tom bell >> > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 13:00:28 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: On This Day in Wisconsin History: Typewriter patented- Milwaukee 1868 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline In search of a story on the passing of the last of the old spitball pitchers at this site stumbed on this and as our Wisconsin state motto says, thought to "Forward" from Milwaukee- dbc http://www.wisconsinhistory.org/thisday/ --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 07:38:11 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jill Jones Subject: Re: Mary Rising Higgins In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20070827085347.0358a110@theriver.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That is sad news. I had a a copy of her book O'Clock, all the way over here, and admired her work greatly. Thanks, Charles, for passing along the news. Jill On 28/08/2007, at 2:02 AM, charles alexander wrote: > Mary Rising Higgins died last night, August 26, about 7pm. > > I know she was in hospice care, but I don't know the details of her > medical condition. > > Her books in recent years: Cliff Tides (Singing Horse Press, 2005), > Locus Tides (Potes & Poets Press, 2003), O'Clock (Potes & Poets > Press, 2000), Red Table(s (La Alameda Press, 1999), presented an > amazing body of work over a short period of time. I felt lucky to > know her and hear her read her work. > > > > > charles alexander / chax press > > fold the book inside the book keep it open always > read from the inside out speak then > > Chax Press > 520-620-1626 (studio) > 520-275-4330 (cell) > chax@theriver.com > chax.org > 650 E. 9th St. > Tucson, AZ 85705 __________________________________ Jill Jones Latest books: Broken/Open. Available from Salt Publishing http://www.saltpublishing.com/books/smp/1844710416.htm Where the Sea Burns. Wagtail Series. Picaro Press PO Box 853, Warners Bay, NSW, 2282. jandr@hunterlink.net.au web site: http://www.jilljones.com.au off the street: http://jillesjon.googlepages.com/home blog1: Ruby Street http://rubystreet.blogspot.com/ blog2: Latitudes http://itudes.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 16:36:47 -0500 Reply-To: dgodston@sbcglobal.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Godston Subject: Re: old folks can write too In-Reply-To: <20070827124032.APB46186@mtsu125.mtsu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cynthia Stokes Brown's "Like It Was: A Complete Guide to Writing Oral History" might be a good one to use. -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Tom Bell Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 12:41 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: old folks can write too I am doing a course for old folks liie me at a local senior center and looking for a text book. Ideas? tom bell ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 08:11:27 +1000 Reply-To: John Tranter Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Tranter Subject: Ashbery on MTV?? Comments: To: British Poets List , PoetryEtc discussion list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all: New York Times August 27, 2007 An 80-Year-Old Poet for the MTV Generation By MELENA RYZIK MtvU, the subsidiary of MTV Networks that is broadcast only on college camp= uses, will announce today that it has selected its first poet laureate. No,= he doesn?t rap. And it?s not Bob Dylan, or even Justin Timberlake. It is John Ashbery, the prolific 80-year-old poet and frequent award winner= known for his dense, postmodern style and playful language. One of the mos= t celebrated living poets, Mr. Ashbery has won MacArthur Foundation and Gug= genheim fellowships and was awarded a Pulitzer Prize in 1976 for his collec= tion ?Self-Portrait in a Convex Mirror.? =20 ... more here:=20 http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/27/books/27laur.html?ex=3D1188878400&en=3Dc4= e34a79300ffe48&ei=3D5070&emc=3Deta1 (you may need to repair the break in the URL). ------------------------------------------=20 John Tranter=20 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 18:07:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Simon DeDeo Subject: new on rhubarb is susan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Three posts this week -- I have a large backlog to catch up with after putting absent to bed (waking her up?) -- on Victor Segalen, the end of wikipedia as we know it (no, seriously), and announcing absent issue two: http://rhubarbissusan.blogspot.com http://rhubarbissusan.blogspot.com/2007/08/reading-victor-segalen.html http://rhubarbissusan.blogspot.com/2007/08/end-of-wikipedia-as-we-know-it.html http://rhubarbissusan.blogspot.com/2007/08/absent-magazine-issue-two-now-online.html Thanks as always for tuning in and drop comments and so forth as you please, Simon ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 18:10:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Old folds can write to. In-Reply-To: <497935.60985.qm@web52407.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I Never Told Anybody. steve russell wrote: > The late Kenneth Koch taught poetry in nursing homes. He found it rewarding and wrote at least one book on the subject. The name of the book escapes me, but it wouldn't be hard to find. > > --------------------------------- > Luggage? GPS? Comic books? > Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search. > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 16:39:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: Old folds can write to. In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Koch's book is interesting, not real useful, but it points out possible points of discussion, teaching the elderly. For example, the people Koch taught in a nursing home were very infirm. Fewer older people are very infirm for a long period anymore. That might be an interesting discussion to include in the course if you use the Koch book. For example, the friends of the library here is in the energetic grandparents raising a second generation of children group, 65-85ish. The president turned the group into an oral history / local history group sponsoring arts workshops and events at the branch library. My paternal grandmother LOVED her local senior center -- this was about 30 years ago, tho. My maternal grandmother wouldn't be caught dead there. My paternal grandmother also went straight to a nursing home during her decline, while my grandmother lived in assisted living -- she had her own apartment, but didn't have to cook dinner or clean -- from her very late 80s until her mid 90s. During most of that time, she was not infirm or isolated from the larger community. A lot of seniors I've met as book fests in particular are really interested in diy publishing: how to make a chapbook on the computer, dos and don'ts of lulu.com, what a broadside is, or something like that might go over really, really well and be fun besides. Maybe a collaborative book or collection? I've had good results with occasional verse, postcard poems, mail art, renga.... -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly@gmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 19:27:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: Mary Rising Higgins In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20070827085347.0358a110@theriver.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A great loss! Mary was one of the most adventurous and inventive poets/writers I know. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Aug 27, 2007, at 11:02 AM, charles alexander wrote: > Mary Rising Higgins died last night, August 26, about 7pm. > > I know she was in hospice care, but I don't know the details of her > medical condition. > > Her books in recent years: Cliff Tides (Singing Horse Press, 2005), > Locus Tides (Potes & Poets Press, 2003), O'Clock (Potes & Poets > Press, 2000), Red Table(s (La Alameda Press, 1999), presented an > amazing body of work over a short period of time. I felt lucky to > know her and hear her read her work. > > > > > charles alexander / chax press > > fold the book inside the book keep it open always > read from the inside out speak then > > Chax Press > 520-620-1626 (studio) > 520-275-4330 (cell) > chax@theriver.com > chax.org > 650 E. 9th St. > Tucson, AZ 85705 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 21:40:13 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: Joe Brainard's Meditates on Catherine Daly, Vacancy, and the Dildos MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Recent mediations & meditations at Joe Brainard's Pyjamas are upon the nature of DaDaDa (both Catherine Daly's ouevre and Volkswagen incursions), the movie Vacancy, the time-traveling Dildos and other topics of imminent concern. Come on by and I'll promise to pick the lint off YOUR jammies...it's all soft and has plastic feet at _http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/_ (http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/) ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 13:34:28 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Therese Broderick Subject: old folks can write too In-Reply-To: <20070827124032.APB46186@mtsu125.mtsu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Mr. Bell, I am a community poet (not an academic) active in the Albany, NY area. I have an MFA degree and years of workshop experience. I have presented some informal poetry sessions to older writers. I own the handbook by Kenneth Koch entitled "I Never Told Anybody: Teaching Poetry Writing to Old People." It is a good guide; however, most of it is targeted to "nursing home" residents. Your writers in a senior center will be different from nursing home residents with regard to manual dexterity, attention span, memory, hearing acuity, extent of personal loss and sadness, and ability to commit to a series of scheduled classes. I don't know whether your "course" is a formal composition class or a more informal writing session. Nor do I know whether it teaches all kinds of writing (which would be a real challenge) or just poetry. But if you want to give me a call or a personal email query, I can share my experiences with you in more detail. Words of advice: whatever you do, do not underestimate the sharp intelligence, wise insight, broad experience, depth of feeling, or probably already-in-place strong writing (and memorization) skills of your seniors. If you are one of them, then you already know that. Therese Broderick, MFA Albany, NY 518-482-2639 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 19:15:33 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jerome Rothenberg Subject: Reading with Philippe Manoury MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [The following announcement for those who are interested and in a = position to attend] UPCOMING: READING & MUSICAL PERFORMANCE ON sEPTEMBER 4 Jerome Rothenberg will read on Tuesday September 4 6:00 p.m. at the = Spiegeltent at South Street Seaport in New York, preceding the = performance of a new work by Philippe Manoury based on Rothenberg's = texts. Manoury is one of France's most important living composers, and = this concert will mark the world premiere of Cruel Spirals (2007), a = work commissioned by the International Contemporary Ensemble (ICE) and = scored for solo soprano (Tony Arnold), string quartet, flute, clarinet, = guitar and percussion. Tickets ($35 general / $15 students) available = at www.ticketcentral.com or by phone at 212 279.4200. For more = information, visit www.spiegelworld.com or www.iceorg.org. =20 A conversation between Manoury and Rothenberg will follow at 8:00 that = evening at The New York Theater Workshop, 79 East Fourth Street (at = Second Avenue). Admission for the conversation is free. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 21:44:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: Old folds can write to. In-Reply-To: <46D359D1.7050805@umn.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Old fools can write too. Hal "Go ahead and look for God, but tie up your camel first." --Sufi proverb Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Aug 27, 2007, at 6:10 PM, Maria Damon wrote: > I Never Told Anybody. > > steve russell wrote: >> The late Kenneth Koch taught poetry in nursing homes. He found it >> rewarding and wrote at least one book on the subject. The name of >> the book escapes me, but it wouldn't be hard to find. >> --------------------------------- >> Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at >> Yahoo! Search. >> ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 07:44:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charlie Rossiter Subject: Rita Dove at Neruda's Grave In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit There's not a lot of poetry on Youtube yet, but go there and search Rita Dove and watch/listen to her at Neruda's grave. Charlie ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 10:17:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Skinner Subject: Mary Rising Higgins In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable This is sad, sad news. I'm surprised though not shocked as I know Mary had survived cancer earlier in life. Indeed, I believe that was the new lease that impelled her to such an amazing and radical production. From the 1999 Red Table(s on she has published some of the most exquisite and uncompromising poetry of our times. Ran her "Scaffolds to K" in an issue of ecopoetics (no. 3). One of the most beautiful things we were luck= y to be able to publish. More than almost any other contemporary writer I know of (post-Ronald Johnson), Mary's work has explored the fractal patterns at work in all materials, across species and languages. A kind of no holds-barred cosmic fire irrigating her elegant compositions, informed and structured by specific (observed) knowledge of other lives, especially botanical and avian. =20 We'd lost touch in the past year, though I continued to look forward to meeting her in person. Another reminder how little one can take for granted, in this short life . . . I still have Locus Tides, and O'Clock, waiting to be reviewed. In the meantime, thanks for the adventures in writing, Mary. Happy travels . . .=20 JS from "Black Top River Fires / a Corona" Grace length, a fresh uncertain sea we branch in back flipped through calm and storm childhood expirations a fresh rooted ribbon grass love pulls into why, perhaps fractals compose the house or spawn July . . . minutiae's dogged trek eastward through traffic weft where I can't help skipping after red shift dwarf and puny star target landscape dreamed by someone . . . Hallucinogenic skin over cat voice dawn navigates place in spooled thread space spark . . . colossal virus being electronic drift here we slip turn rushing tesselate flight wake tossed to whirl cued grackle frame reach out of drum lift foot bent bridge span stretch where none of it will finish in time . . . plumb fallen launch spurred to snowtipped summer mooring grace length, a fresh uncertain sea we branch in. (red table(s, La Alameda Press, 1999) from "Scaffolds to K" dust shadow mountains reshape loves me knot, loves me =20 sun speeds a farther north lane sky corner, loves me =20 catalpa petals, drop one by one, scuff patch grass =20 new mown, weeded, then monsoon sand lit gust flurries =20 rain cool clearing early June afternoons burst in =20 predicted chaos average repeating along =20 scaffolds at K, velar capped and frost peaked, to =20 flavor the grained silence cloud squared thermals re|place =20 re|verse re|place all day=B9s labyrinth to search the =20 voice listening inflects, clew spin space and matter =20 through impossible architecture terms come to (ecopoetics 03, 2003) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 09:59:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Old folds can write to. In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit as can old folds. Halvard Johnson wrote: > Old fools can write too. > > Hal > > "Go ahead and look for God, but > tie up your camel first." > --Sufi proverb > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard@earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > On Aug 27, 2007, at 6:10 PM, Maria Damon wrote: > >> I Never Told Anybody. >> >> steve russell wrote: >>> The late Kenneth Koch taught poetry in nursing homes. He found it >>> rewarding and wrote at least one book on the subject. The name of >>> the book escapes me, but it wouldn't be hard to find. >>> --------------------------------- >>> Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at >>> Yahoo! Search. >>> ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 06:57:58 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve russell Subject: Re: Old folds can write to. In-Reply-To: <46D359D1.7050805@umn.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hunh? My paranoia is on high def red alert... NO ONE must know whatever it is they know. Have I made myself, ugh, perfectly clear? Maria Damon wrote: I Never Told Anybody. steve russell wrote: > The late Kenneth Koch taught poetry in nursing homes. He found it rewarding and wrote at least one book on the subject. The name of the book escapes me, but it wouldn't be hard to find. > > --------------------------------- > Luggage? GPS? Comic books? > Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search. > --------------------------------- Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 01:06:55 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: J Crockett Subject: web designers like me MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://listenlight.net/media/augustllvisits.png indicates that twice as many web designers look at listenlight that people clicking through from the BPL. and may empiricize that I'm bringing more people to poetry than you. Wait until I learn JavaFX. . . mwahha. Jess Crockett Now reading for issue 12. address to: jesse -at listenlight -dot net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 10:27:25 -0400 Reply-To: Kimberley Rogers Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kimberley Rogers Subject: Re: Ashbery on MTV?? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is it me or are we way overdue for women to be considered for all these recently filled Poet Laureate decisions? (Not that I think the position is indicative of a poet's importance) Naomi Shihab Nye is an excellent candidate for the voice of America and the voice of the MTV generation right now. I revolt--and methinks there must be a poem waitng to get out in me somewhere on this subject--as always. -----Original Message----- >From: John Tranter >Sent: Aug 27, 2007 6:11 PM >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Ashbery on MTV?? > >Hi, all: > >New York Times >August 27, 2007 >An 80-Year-Old Poet for the MTV Generation >By MELENA RYZIK > >MtvU, the subsidiary of MTV Networks that is broadcast only on college campuses, will announce today that it has selected its first poet laureate. No, he doesn?t rap. And it?s not Bob Dylan, or even Justin Timberlake. > >It is John Ashbery, the prolific 80-year-old poet and frequent award winner known for his dense, postmodern style and playful language. One of the most celebrated living poets, Mr. Ashbery has won MacArthur Foundation and Guggenheim fellowships and was awarded a Pulitzer Prize in 1976 for his collection ?Self-Portrait in a Convex Mirror.? > >... more here: > >http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/27/books/27laur.html?ex=1188878400&en=c4e34a79300ffe48&ei=5070&emc=eta1 > >(you may need to repair the break in the URL). > >------------------------------------------ >John Tranter ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 11:41:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Schlesinger Kyle Subject: Re: fonts, typewriters, page design, & printing In-Reply-To: <002d01c7e8c9$9b76e780$b6121341@JEFFREY2> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Small Press Distribution still has a few copies of Alan Loney's The Printer Printed with an introduction by Steve Clay of Granary Books. This meditation/manifesto was delivered in the Poetry Collection at the University at Buffalo when Bob Creeley invited him to read there in 2003. Alan is a terrific poet, skilled printer and a refined thinker on the relationship between the two. He now lives in Australia where he continues to print under the sign of Electio Editions. Check out http://www.electioeditions.com/ Kyle ______________ Kyle Schlesinger www.kyleschlesinger.com www.cuneiformpress.com > From: Crane's Bill Books > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:44:53 -0600 > To: > Subject: Re: fonts, typewriters, page design, & printing > > It's a bit far afield of the design question, but Walter J. Ong's ORALITY AND > LITERACY: THE TECHNOLOGIZING OF THE WORD deals with, among many other good > things, how the printed word and the printed page have influenced ideas about > what language is and what is should do. I found it pretty remarkable. > Kyle Schlesinger's Cuneiform Press issued a lovely essay by Alan Loney, > MEDITATIO: THE PRINTER PRINTED: MANIFESTO. Sadly, no longer in print. > Jeffrey > > J. A. Lee > Crane's Bill Books > Albuquerque > www.torriblezone.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 11:54:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Dr. Barry S. Alpert" Subject: Re: "An 80-Year-Old Poet for the MTV Generation" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I believe I witnessed such a pairing at the Library of Congress in the seve= nties and that one reading was much more impressive than the other. Barry = Alpert =20 =20 On Mon, 27 Aug 2007, Jason Quackenbush wrote: =20 i'd like to see charles simic vs. john ashbery in a celebrity death match _________________________________________________________________ Messenger Caf=E9 =97 open for fun 24/7. Hot games, cool activities served d= aily. Visit now. http://cafemessenger.com?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_AugWLtagline= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 09:11:03 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve russell Subject: Old folks can WRITE 2!!!!!!!!!! responce to Maria Damon... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Brain damage, me. Maria Damon was referring to the book KK wrote. Silly me. I've been in the business too long. Too many Feds, know what I'm saying. I need to take my anti-paranoia meds. --------------------------------- Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 13:05:11 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: peaches and herb and ashbery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm sorry but whoever repeated that "peaches and herb" anecdote re Ashbery is gul-gul-gullible.....you can't live in America and move twenty feet without hearing a pop song...clearly that was Ashbery being "cutesy" with his "high culture" image....he's heard it all...in elevators, restaurants, and every where else..if you think he can't sing along with "Can't Touch This," octogenarian or not, I have "hair in a can" i want to sell you..it, like, totally FOOLS people... But "Reunited" did Rock. My bff Tammy and I used to perform it at neighborhood barbecues when we were ten...sigh...memories! ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 10:32:04 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Re: Ashbery on MTV?? SHERMAN ALEXIE Comments: To: Kimberley Rogers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Whatever one may make of his various works, I think Sherman Alexie would be a great candidate for an MTV laureate. (I'm not his biggest fan, but do think he'd be great Mtv Laureate.) His work continually makes use --hilarious, angry, bitter, turned upside down inside out--of popular culture, movies, music, tv, basketball, popular /assigned books, comic books, He often writes and says a lot of things that the American culture high and low, select or mass--would prefer to go unsaid and unheard, that keep things unsettling and uncomfortable. He can be devastatingly annihilatingly analytical of the gigantic crock of BS in the US and hysterically funny within the same sentence. (Ah! But he doesn't write New Sentences!-- some might object--protesting the "Marginalization of ['Real'] Poetry." But doesn't John Ashbery already cover some of this "Real Poetry" ground?) Heard him recently give talk with a reading in which he described airline profiling from the point of view of an American Indian. In the first place--WHAT are you? WHERE are you FROM? Asia? Southwest Asia? Latin America? Not like you see a lot of Indians flying the friendly skies of America! After all, aren't America's First Peoples also its first Guantanamo Poets? Americans build "Seperation" Walls and fences in Baghdad, on the Mexican border and give billions for the world's biggest, best equipped, Super-Max Security one in Palestine. And why not? Don't they already have a long history and expertise in this form of ethnic cleansing, anti-terrorism, National security? "They are still calling us 'savages,' 'terrorists,'" says Leonard Peltier from his prison cell. So what do you do when "one of them" gets on the nice airplane? "I have taken poison and made Medicine of it." Charlie Hill, Indian comic Why not some Medicine words for Mtv poetry-- On 8/28/07, Kimberley Rogers wrote: > Is it me or are we way overdue for women to be considered for all these recently filled Poet Laureate decisions? (Not that I think the position is indicative of a poet's importance) Naomi Shihab Nye is an excellent candidate for the voice of America and the voice of the MTV generation right now. I revolt--and methinks there must be a poem waitng to get out in me somewhere on this subject--as always. > > -----Original Message----- > >From: John Tranter > >Sent: Aug 27, 2007 6:11 PM > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >Subject: Ashbery on MTV?? > > > >Hi, all: > > > >New York Times > >August 27, 2007 > >An 80-Year-Old Poet for the MTV Generation > >By MELENA RYZIK > > > >MtvU, the subsidiary of MTV Networks that is broadcast only on college campuses, will announce today that it has selected its first poet laureate. No, he doesn?t rap. And it?s not Bob Dylan, or even Justin Timberlake. > > > >It is John Ashbery, the prolific 80-year-old poet and frequent award winner known for his dense, postmodern style and playful language. One of the most celebrated living poets, Mr. Ashbery has won MacArthur Foundation and Guggenheim fellowships and was awarded a Pulitzer Prize in 1976 for his collection ?Self-Portrait in a Convex Mirror.? > > > >... more here: > > > >http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/27/books/27laur.html?ex=1188878400&en=c4e34a79300ffe48&ei=5070&emc=eta1 > > > >(you may need to repair the break in the URL). > > > >------------------------------------------ > >John Tranter > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 10:39:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Diane DiPrima Subject: Re: Old folds can write to. In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Deena Metzger's "Writing for Your Life" is invaluable for all middle- and late-year beginning writers. I don't know if it's still in print. Diane di Prima > From: Catherine Daly > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 16:39:56 -0700 > To: > Subject: Re: Old folds can write to. > > Koch's book is interesting, not real useful, but it points out > possible points of discussion, teaching the elderly. For example, the > people Koch taught in a nursing home were very infirm. Fewer older > people are very infirm for a long period anymore. That might be an > interesting discussion to include in the course if you use the Koch > book. > > For example, the friends of the library here is in the energetic > grandparents raising a second generation of children group, 65-85ish. > The president turned the group into an oral history / local history > group sponsoring arts workshops and events at the branch library. > > My paternal grandmother LOVED her local senior center -- this was > about 30 years ago, tho. My maternal grandmother wouldn't be caught > dead there. My paternal grandmother also went straight to a nursing > home during her decline, while my grandmother lived in assisted living > -- she had her own apartment, but didn't have to cook dinner or clean > -- from her very late 80s until her mid 90s. During most of that > time, she was not infirm or isolated from the larger community. > > A lot of seniors I've met as book fests in particular are really > interested in diy publishing: how to make a chapbook on the computer, > dos and don'ts of lulu.com, what a broadside is, or something like > that might go over really, really well and be fun besides. Maybe a > collaborative book or collection? > > I've had good results with occasional verse, postcard poems, mail art, > renga.... > > -- > All best, > Catherine Daly > c.a.b.daly@gmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 18:46:32 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barry Schwabsky Subject: Re: Grace Paley In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit One thing--Grace Paley's admirers will want to read this lovely tribute from Katha Pollitt: http://www.thenation.com/blogs/anotherthing?pid=226859 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 10:47:40 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jennifer Karmin Subject: Call for Papers: Feminist Activism in the Academy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Call for Papers: FEMINIST ACTIVISM IN THE ACADEMY The slogan that the personal is political has not always made clear how feminists navigate the professional realm. We seek to compile a volume entitled Feminist Activism in the Academy. Articles for the volume will examine the intersections among the personal, political, and professional realms and the ways in which feminist activists come to life in the Academy. The proposed volume will bring together perspectives on activism in the academy from a variety of disciplines and interdisciplines. Primary areas of focus include: self-identification of women academics; activism in and out of the classroom; activism in and out of formal Women's Studies curricula; women*s status in the academic workplace. This special volume will provide a forum in which scholars will come together to identify and define problems in their work lives and/or examine their own brand of activism as it pertains to their professional day-to-day lives and their careers as a whole. Essays can focus on one particular experience or location or can be comparative in nature. The larger arch under which we wish to gather essays in this volume is bell hooks' notion that the classroom remains the most radical space of possibility in the academy, the place where activism starts with the essential movement against and beyond boundaries, a movement which makes education the practice of freedom. In light of this notion, we encourage discussions and explorations of the interconnections between feminist pedagogies and activism and between the status of feminist scholars and teachers in the Academy and institutionalized politics of exclusion, silencing, or marginalization that adversely affect the overall status of women in the academic professions. Essay topics include but are not limited to: Student activists: Programming with a feminist consciousness Women as professor-activists: Making a difference Women administrators: Making changes without getting fired Women's Studies curricula The personal as political Local activism Service-learning Inclusion of local women activists Extra-curricular programming Celebrating women's anniversaries in the Academy (e.g. Co-education, First woman X) Quid pro quo and/versus hostile environment harassment Benevolent sexism in the Academy Training for change in the Academy Title VII and the Academy Title IX and the Academy What works for women scholars in other nations: learning and applying, others'lessons Mothering/grandmothering in the Academy Essays of 15-25 pages in length should be submitted electronically by February 1, 2008, to Domnica Radulescu (radulescud@wlu.edu) and Ellen Mayock (mayocke@wlu.edu). Essays should be submitted in MS-Word format, with parenthetical notes and complete references formatted according to the MLA Handbook of Style. Brief, 75-word bios must accompany essay submissions. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=summer+activities+for+kids&cs=bz ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 10:51:49 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander Subject: Re: Ashbery on MTV?? Comments: To: Kimberley Rogers In-Reply-To: <25382968.1188311245947.JavaMail.root@mswamui-bichon.atl.sa .earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Yes! Although I would have, as first choice, Kathy Acker if she were still alive. For me, Anne Waldman or Erica Hunt or Alice Notley or Harryette Mullen or Dodie Bellamy or . . . charles At 07:27 AM 8/28/2007, Kimberley Rogers wrote: >Is it me or are we way overdue for women to be considered for all >these recently filled Poet Laureate decisions? (Not that I think the >position is indicative of a poet's importance) Naomi Shihab Nye is >an excellent candidate for the voice of America and the voice of the >MTV generation right now. I revolt--and methinks there must be a >poem waitng to get out in me somewhere on this subject--as always. > >-----Original Message----- > >From: John Tranter > >Sent: Aug 27, 2007 6:11 PM > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >Subject: Ashbery on MTV?? > > > >Hi, all: > > > >New York Times > >August 27, 2007 > >An 80-Year-Old Poet for the MTV Generation > >By MELENA RYZIK > > > >MtvU, the subsidiary of MTV Networks that is broadcast only on > college campuses, will announce today that it has selected its > first poet laureate. No, he doesn?t rap. And it?s not Bob Dylan, or > even Justin Timberlake. > > > >It is John Ashbery, the prolific 80-year-old poet and frequent > award winner known for his dense, postmodern style and playful > language. One of the most celebrated living poets, Mr. Ashbery has > won MacArthur Foundation and Guggenheim fellowships and was awarded > a Pulitzer Prize in 1976 for his collection ?Self-Portrait in a > Convex Mirror.? > > > >... more here: > > > >http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/27/books/27laur.html?ex=1188878400&e > n=c4e34a79300ffe48&ei=5070&emc=eta1 > > > >(you may need to repair the break in the URL). > > > >------------------------------------------ > >John Tranter charles alexander / chax press fold the book inside the book keep it open always read from the inside out speak then Chax Press 520-620-1626 (studio) 520-275-4330 (cell) chax@theriver.com chax.org 650 E. 9th St. Tucson, AZ 85705 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 15:02:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Ashbery on MTV?? In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20070828104912.0354fa30@theriver.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Rochelle Owens. Wouldn't that be a trip? At 01:51 PM 8/28/2007, you wrote: >Yes! Although I would have, as first choice, Kathy Acker if she were >still alive. For me, Anne Waldman or Erica Hunt or Alice Notley or >Harryette Mullen or Dodie Bellamy or . . . > >charles > >At 07:27 AM 8/28/2007, Kimberley Rogers wrote: >>Is it me or are we way overdue for women to be considered for all >>these recently filled Poet Laureate decisions? (Not that I think >>the position is indicative of a poet's importance) Naomi Shihab >>Nye is an excellent candidate for the voice of America and the >>voice of the MTV generation right now. I revolt--and methinks >>there must be a poem waitng to get out in me somewhere on this >>subject--as always. >> >>-----Original Message----- >> >From: John Tranter >> >Sent: Aug 27, 2007 6:11 PM >> >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> >Subject: Ashbery on MTV?? >> > >> >Hi, all: >> > >> >New York Times >> >August 27, 2007 >> >An 80-Year-Old Poet for the MTV Generation >> >By MELENA RYZIK >> > >> >MtvU, the subsidiary of MTV Networks that is broadcast only on >> college campuses, will announce today that it has selected its >> first poet laureate. No, he doesn?t rap. And it?s not Bob Dylan, >> or even Justin Timberlake. >> > >> >It is John Ashbery, the prolific 80-year-old poet and frequent >> award winner known for his dense, postmodern style and playful >> language. One of the most celebrated living poets, Mr. Ashbery has >> won MacArthur Foundation and Guggenheim fellowships and was >> awarded a Pulitzer Prize in 1976 for his collection ?Self-Portrait >> in a Convex Mirror.? >> > >> >... more here: >> > >> >http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/27/books/27laur.html?ex=1188878400& >> e n=c4e34a79300ffe48&ei=5070&emc=eta1 >> > >> >(you may need to repair the break in the URL). >> > >> >------------------------------------------ >> >John Tranter > >charles alexander / chax press > >fold the book inside the book keep it open always > read from the inside out speak then > >Chax Press >520-620-1626 (studio) >520-275-4330 (cell) >chax@theriver.com >chax.org >650 E. 9th St. >Tucson, AZ 85705 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 15:27:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: My Eclipse MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed My Eclipse "Are there bread-crumbs on the moon?" I ask M. "There's precisely one bread-crumb on the moon." He offers me whiskey and I drink half-glass; he won't stop otherwise, We're staring at the stars. A large Hudson drives down the street below us, full of merry-makers; it's the total eclipse of the moon! It's three in the morning and we haven't seen anything yet. It's four. It's five in the morning and the curtain descends at a distance. You can see earthlight as frustrated earth denies its own shadow. "There you are, that's the disk I've been telling you about." "The moon is round, isn't it?" The bread-crumb would have dried up by now, blown hither and yon by lunar winds. "There aren't any lunar winds." "Are you telling me... because of the vacuum... the very absence of air... that the moon is windless? I don't believe it!" "I've heard that, it must be true! Not a breeze!" "Nothing! Not a breeze!" http://www.asondheim.org/eclipse.mov ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 12:34:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve russell Subject: Ashberry on MTV?? Bob Holman MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Why not Bob Holman on MTV? I haven't been to the bleeding apple in years, but he seemed to do a good job at the Nuyorican Cafe. No, he's not exactly Ashberry, but the man can perform. He'd keep the kids tuned in. --------------------------------- Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 16:07:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: Forward on behalf of Shelly Reed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Shelly Reed Date: Aug 28, 2007 2:04 PM Spire Press: www.spirepress.org Open Reading Period Ends September 15th The open reading period begins August 1st, 2007. This year's open reading period will extend to September 15th (postmarked). Samples of up to 30 pages of literary fiction or creative nonfiction or 10 poems may be submitted in August only for book or chapbook consideration. There is no guarantee that any manuscript will be chosen. Please include a short bio and publication list. While the contests are judged blindly and publication is guaranteed for the winner, the open period considers the marketability of the submission and publication history. Proposed chapbooks have a better chance of acceptance than full-length books. Novels will not be considered. There is no reading fee. Please label your envelopes "Open Submission" and include SASE. Full manuscripts will be requested if necessary. This year's open reading period will extend to September 15th (postmarked). Call for Submissions: Anthology Spire Press is now requesting poems and short prose (fiction and non-fiction =96 no essays =96 less than 3,000 words) for a new anthology with the theme: Class in America. We need work that explores economic class from all groups and angles, no boring sob stories. Please be fascinating and reflective. The title for this anthology is still undetermined. Please label your envelopes "Anthology Submission" and limit your submission to three poems or one prose piece. Include SASE for reply. All other submissions will be discarded. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 15:17:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Skip Fox Subject: Re: Ashbery on MTV?? In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20070828150221.05ddcda8@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bernadette Mayer. (But Rochelle has my vote as well.) -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Mark Weiss Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 2:03 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Ashbery on MTV?? Rochelle Owens. Wouldn't that be a trip? At 01:51 PM 8/28/2007, you wrote: >Yes! Although I would have, as first choice, Kathy Acker if she were >still alive. For me, Anne Waldman or Erica Hunt or Alice Notley or >Harryette Mullen or Dodie Bellamy or . . . > >charles > >At 07:27 AM 8/28/2007, Kimberley Rogers wrote: >>Is it me or are we way overdue for women to be considered for all >>these recently filled Poet Laureate decisions? (Not that I think >>the position is indicative of a poet's importance) Naomi Shihab >>Nye is an excellent candidate for the voice of America and the >>voice of the MTV generation right now. I revolt--and methinks >>there must be a poem waitng to get out in me somewhere on this >>subject--as always. >> >>-----Original Message----- >> >From: John Tranter >> >Sent: Aug 27, 2007 6:11 PM >> >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> >Subject: Ashbery on MTV?? >> > >> >Hi, all: >> > >> >New York Times >> >August 27, 2007 >> >An 80-Year-Old Poet for the MTV Generation >> >By MELENA RYZIK >> > >> >MtvU, the subsidiary of MTV Networks that is broadcast only on >> college campuses, will announce today that it has selected its >> first poet laureate. No, he doesn?t rap. And it?s not Bob Dylan, >> or even Justin Timberlake. >> > >> >It is John Ashbery, the prolific 80-year-old poet and frequent >> award winner known for his dense, postmodern style and playful >> language. One of the most celebrated living poets, Mr. Ashbery has >> won MacArthur Foundation and Guggenheim fellowships and was >> awarded a Pulitzer Prize in 1976 for his collection ?Self-Portrait >> in a Convex Mirror.? >> > >> >... more here: >> > >> >http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/27/books/27laur.html?ex=1188878400& >> e n=c4e34a79300ffe48&ei=5070&emc=eta1 >> > >> >(you may need to repair the break in the URL). >> > >> >------------------------------------------ >> >John Tranter > >charles alexander / chax press > >fold the book inside the book keep it open always > read from the inside out speak then > >Chax Press >520-620-1626 (studio) >520-275-4330 (cell) >chax@theriver.com >chax.org >650 E. 9th St. >Tucson, AZ 85705 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 16:18:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: Ashberry on MTV?? Bob Holman In-Reply-To: <748804.43045.qm@web52405.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Holman should have been on MTV during his stretch as emcee at the Nuyorican. I think around 1992 he and some of the Nuyorican Poets actually appeared on MTV. His style would bring people in and keep them interested in the spectacle, if not the poetry per se. And some people might watch him for the hype and later discover they like poetry. I'm a little surprised that it hasn't happened already. Vernon http://vernonfrazer.com -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of steve russell Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 3:34 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Ashberry on MTV?? Bob Holman Why not Bob Holman on MTV? I haven't been to the bleeding apple in years, but he seemed to do a good job at the Nuyorican Cafe. No, he's not exactly Ashberry, but the man can perform. He'd keep the kids tuned in. --------------------------------- Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 13:18:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Ashbery on MTV?? In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20070828150221.05ddcda8@earthlink.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In the meantime can't we ask that the male laureates appear half the year in drag? Though, in Washington parlance, that might be called a 'cover-up.' But such Laurel enhancing gear has legit Roman & Greek roots - if what I see on some of those vases is true. Non? Stephen V http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ > Rochelle Owens. Wouldn't that be a trip? > > At 01:51 PM 8/28/2007, you wrote: >> Yes! Although I would have, as first choice, Kathy Acker if she were >> still alive. For me, Anne Waldman or Erica Hunt or Alice Notley or >> Harryette Mullen or Dodie Bellamy or . . . >> >> charles >> >> At 07:27 AM 8/28/2007, Kimberley Rogers wrote: >>> Is it me or are we way overdue for women to be considered for all >>> these recently filled Poet Laureate decisions? (Not that I think >>> the position is indicative of a poet's importance) Naomi Shihab >>> Nye is an excellent candidate for the voice of America and the >>> voice of the MTV generation right now. I revolt--and methinks >>> there must be a poem waitng to get out in me somewhere on this >>> subject--as always. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: John Tranter >>>> Sent: Aug 27, 2007 6:11 PM >>>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>>> Subject: Ashbery on MTV?? >>>> >>>> Hi, all: >>>> >>>> New York Times >>>> August 27, 2007 >>>> An 80-Year-Old Poet for the MTV Generation >>>> By MELENA RYZIK >>>> >>>> MtvU, the subsidiary of MTV Networks that is broadcast only on >>> college campuses, will announce today that it has selected its >>> first poet laureate. No, he doesn?t rap. And it?s not Bob Dylan, >>> or even Justin Timberlake. >>>> >>>> It is John Ashbery, the prolific 80-year-old poet and frequent >>> award winner known for his dense, postmodern style and playful >>> language. One of the most celebrated living poets, Mr. Ashbery has >>> won MacArthur Foundation and Guggenheim fellowships and was >>> awarded a Pulitzer Prize in 1976 for his collection ?Self-Portrait >>> in a Convex Mirror.? >>>> >>>> ... more here: >>>> >>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/27/books/27laur.html?ex=1188878400& >>> e n=c4e34a79300ffe48&ei=5070&emc=eta1 >>>> >>>> (you may need to repair the break in the URL). >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------ >>>> John Tranter >> >> charles alexander / chax press >> >> fold the book inside the book keep it open always >> read from the inside out speak then >> >> Chax Press >> 520-620-1626 (studio) >> 520-275-4330 (cell) >> chax@theriver.com >> chax.org >> 650 E. 9th St. >> Tucson, AZ 85705 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 13:37:20 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: My Eclipse Comments: To: Alan Sondheim In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit We got it - here on the West Coast - while it was still real dark. Great sustained moment: My Eclipse - Journal I rose about 1:15 to see the first ink drop shadow. Woke back up again at three o'clock and stood spellbound on the back porch for the next hour and a half. Wow. Had me rocked! The gradual intense dwindling of the light. The banana red marble in the darkness. Complete with the shooting star at about full eclipse, like a long thin white arrow fleeting under it. Then a flicker, speedy red flickering light, that dashed above across the darkened sky. (Was it a plane...so fast??). Then a thin a vibrating yellow yoke, a crown about the sides and edges. A stillness Then, the sunny white cap piece strikes the left side of the upper pole. The initial solar flash, floating there. That was down right spiritual - the awakening sense out of darkness. I'd go for a repeat. Hear another one is supposedly coming in 2008(?). Maybe this one was special because it was also a full moon(??). Wow. Stephen Vincent http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ > My Eclipse > > > "Are there bread-crumbs on the moon?" I ask M. > "There's precisely one bread-crumb on the moon." > He offers me whiskey and I drink half-glass; he won't stop otherwise, > We're staring at the stars. > A large Hudson drives down the street below us, full of merry-makers; > it's the total eclipse of the moon! > It's three in the morning and we haven't seen anything yet. > It's four. > It's five in the morning and the curtain descends at a distance. > You can see earthlight as frustrated earth denies its own shadow. > "There you are, that's the disk I've been telling you about." > "The moon is round, isn't it?" > The bread-crumb would have dried up by now, blown hither and yon by > lunar winds. > "There aren't any lunar winds." > "Are you telling me... because of the vacuum... the very absence of air... > that the moon is windless? I don't believe it!" > "I've heard that, it must be true! Not a breeze!" > "Nothing! Not a breeze!" > > http://www.asondheim.org/eclipse.mov ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 16:42:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: peaches and herb and ashbery Comments: To: "W.B. Keckler" In-Reply-To: c57.187deab7.3405afc7@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 but "Reunited" can't hold a candle to the earlier Peaches and Herb hit, with the earlier Peaches, titled, what else, "United." On Tue, Aug 28, 2007 01:05 PM, "W.B. Keckler" wrote: > > >I'm sorry but whoever repeated that "peaches and herb" anecdote re Ashbery is gul-gul-gullible.....you can't live in America and move twenty feet without hearing a pop song...clearly that was Ashbery being "cutesy" with his "high culture" image....he's heard it all...in elevators, restaurants, and every where else..if you think he can't sing along with "Can't Touch This," octogenarian or not, I have "hair in a can" i want to sell you..it, like, totally FOOLS people... But "Reunited" did Rock. My bff Tammy and I used to perform it at neighborhood barbecues when we were ten...sigh...memories! ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We are enslaved by what makes us free -- intolerable paradox at the heart of speech. --Robert Kelly Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 17:37:08 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Beckett Subject: MERITAGE PRESS ANNOUNCEMENT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MERITAGE PRESS ANNOUNCEMENT COMPLICATIONS Poems by Garrett Caples ISBN-13: 978-0-9794119-1-5=20 ISBN-10: 0-9794119-1-2 =20 Price: $16.00 Release date: Fall 2007 Distributors: Small Press Distribution, Amazon.com & www.MeritagePress.com For more info: MeritagePress@aol.com Meritage Press is delighted to announce the release of -- and a SPECIAL=20 RELEASE OFFER for -- Complications, the second full-length poetry collectio= n by =20 Oakland-based poet Garrett Caples. Reflecting the moral disintegration of =20 the post-9/11 world, Complications is an even wilder, darker, funnier=20 exploration of poetic consciousness than its predecessor, The Garrett Caple= s Reader. =20 From semiotic reportage to automatic writing, oulipian constraint to=20 straightforward elegy, Complications is an eclectic tour de force in the se= rvice of a=20 fundamental proposition: "surreality is real." Praise for The Garrett Caples Reader=20 "a wonderful book of prose and poetry." --Philip Lamantia "a lovely piece of work all the way through." --Robert Creeley ABOUT THE AUTHOR: Born in Lawrence, MA in 1972, Garrett Caples is a poet living in Oakland,=20 CA. He is the author of The Garrett Caples Reader (Angle Press/Black Squar= e=20 Editions, 1999), er um (Meritage Press, 2002), and The Philistine's Guide t= o=20 Hip Hop (Ninevolt, 2004). He has published numerous essays, articles, and=20 reviews. He currently writes on hip hop for the San Francisco Bay Guardia= n. ************************* SPECIAL RELEASE OFFER: Meritage Press is pleased to offer a Release Special through September 30,=20 2007. For $13.00, you can obtain a copy of COMPLICATIONS=E2=80=94a reduced= rate from=20 the book's retail price of $16.00=E2=80=94plus free shipping/handling (an a= pproximate=20 $4.00 value) to U.S. addresses. Just send a $13.00 check made out to=20 "Meritage Press" to: Eileen Tabios Meritage Press 256 North Fork Crystal Springs Road St. Helena, CA 94574 For international orders, please contact us through MeritagePress@aol.com ************************* ALSO FORTHCOMING OR NEW FROM MERITAGE PRESS: FRAGILE REPLACEMENTS by William Allegrezza PRAU by Jean Vengua (Filamore Tabios, Sr. Poetry Memorial Prize) And a series of "Tiny Books" measuring 1 3/4 x 1 3/4" inaugurated by ALL=20 ALONE AGAIN by Dan Waber, followed by STEPS: A NOTEBOOK by Tom Beckett and= "=E2=80=A6 AND THEN THE WIND DID BLOW: JAINAKU POEMS by Ernesto Priego. Meritage Press is a multidisciplinary literary and arts publisher based in= =20 St. Helena and San Francisco, CA. Our website is at=20 _http://www.meritagepress.com_ (http://www.meritagepress.com/)=20 ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL a= t=20 http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 20:18:18 -0400 Reply-To: Kimberley Rogers Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kimberley Rogers Subject: Re: Ashbery on MTV?? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brilliant! Charles Simic as Anne Sexton. But if we can't achieve this then my male votes for Poet Laureates of the MTV gen go to Thomas Sayers Ellis, Terrance Hayes, Eugene Gloria and Louise Gluck (because she has brass ones and she's just cold and distant enough in her work to be gender questionable-- sans the tell-tale head shot on back covers. (No offense my sensitive poet brothers and no offense to you,Louise, you are the real awe-inspiring poetic deal.) My choices for females not still living: Reetika Vazirani and Sarah Hannah (And this applies to any generation not just our MTV gen. What sadness and loss for us all to be without such gifts that surely would have made it into our poetic canonicals (the female one at least-- right up there with Bishop in my opinion.) -----Original Message----- >From: Stephen Vincent >Sent: Aug 28, 2007 4:18 PM >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Ashbery on MTV?? > >In the meantime can't we ask that the male laureates appear half the year in >drag? Though, in Washington parlance, that might be called a 'cover-up.' >But such Laurel enhancing gear has legit Roman & Greek roots - if what I see >on some of those vases is true. Non? > >Stephen V >http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ > > > > >> Rochelle Owens. Wouldn't that be a trip? >> >> At 01:51 PM 8/28/2007, you wrote: >>> Yes! Although I would have, as first choice, Kathy Acker if she were >>> still alive. For me, Anne Waldman or Erica Hunt or Alice Notley or >>> Harryette Mullen or Dodie Bellamy or . . . >>> >>> charles >>> >>> At 07:27 AM 8/28/2007, Kimberley Rogers wrote: >>>> Is it me or are we way overdue for women to be considered for all >>>> these recently filled Poet Laureate decisions? (Not that I think >>>> the position is indicative of a poet's importance) Naomi Shihab >>>> Nye is an excellent candidate for the voice of America and the >>>> voice of the MTV generation right now. I revolt--and methinks >>>> there must be a poem waitng to get out in me somewhere on this >>>> subject--as always. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: John Tranter >>>>> Sent: Aug 27, 2007 6:11 PM >>>>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>>>> Subject: Ashbery on MTV?? >>>>> >>>>> Hi, all: >>>>> >>>>> New York Times >>>>> August 27, 2007 >>>>> An 80-Year-Old Poet for the MTV Generation >>>>> By MELENA RYZIK >>>>> >>>>> MtvU, the subsidiary of MTV Networks that is broadcast only on >>>> college campuses, will announce today that it has selected its >>>> first poet laureate. No, he doesn?t rap. And it?s not Bob Dylan, >>>> or even Justin Timberlake. >>>>> >>>>> It is John Ashbery, the prolific 80-year-old poet and frequent >>>> award winner known for his dense, postmodern style and playful >>>> language. One of the most celebrated living poets, Mr. Ashbery has >>>> won MacArthur Foundation and Guggenheim fellowships and was >>>> awarded a Pulitzer Prize in 1976 for his collection ?Self-Portrait >>>> in a Convex Mirror.? >>>>> >>>>> ... more here: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/27/books/27laur.html?ex=1188878400& >>>> e n=c4e34a79300ffe48&ei=5070&emc=eta1 >>>>> >>>>> (you may need to repair the break in the URL). >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------ >>>>> John Tranter >>> >>> charles alexander / chax press >>> >>> fold the book inside the book keep it open always >>> read from the inside out speak then >>> >>> Chax Press >>> 520-620-1626 (studio) >>> 520-275-4330 (cell) >>> chax@theriver.com >>> chax.org >>> 650 E. 9th St. >>> Tucson, AZ 85705 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 17:20:57 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: Ashbery on MTV?? In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20070828104912.0354fa30@theriver.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed or lyn hejinian or susan howe or rae armentrout or bernadette mayer or really anyone other than naomi shihab nye. nye probably doesn't know it, but she is my nemesis and has been ever since i read "making a fist." On Tue, 28 Aug 2007, charles alexander wrote: > Yes! Although I would have, as first choice, Kathy Acker if she were still > alive. For me, Anne Waldman or Erica Hunt or Alice Notley or Harryette Mullen > or Dodie Bellamy or . . . > > charles > > At 07:27 AM 8/28/2007, Kimberley Rogers wrote: >> Is it me or are we way overdue for women to be considered for all these >> recently filled Poet Laureate decisions? (Not that I think the position is >> indicative of a poet's importance) Naomi Shihab Nye is an excellent >> candidate for the voice of America and the voice of the MTV generation right >> now. I revolt--and methinks there must be a poem waitng to get out in me >> somewhere on this subject--as always. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >From: John Tranter >> >Sent: Aug 27, 2007 6:11 PM >> >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> >Subject: Ashbery on MTV?? >> > >> >Hi, all: >> > >> >New York Times >> >August 27, 2007 >> >An 80-Year-Old Poet for the MTV Generation >> >By MELENA RYZIK >> > >> >MtvU, the subsidiary of MTV Networks that is broadcast only on college >> campuses, will announce today that it has selected its first poet laureate. >> No, he doesn?t rap. And it?s not Bob Dylan, or even Justin Timberlake. >> > >> >It is John Ashbery, the prolific 80-year-old poet and frequent award winner >> known for his dense, postmodern style and playful language. One of the most >> celebrated living poets, Mr. Ashbery has won MacArthur Foundation and >> Guggenheim fellowships and was awarded a Pulitzer Prize in 1976 for his >> collection ?Self-Portrait in a Convex Mirror.? >> > >> >... more here: >> > >> >http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/27/books/27laur.html?ex=1188878400&e >> n=c4e34a79300ffe48&ei=5070&emc=eta1 >> > >> >(you may need to repair the break in the URL). >> > >> >------------------------------------------ >> >John Tranter > > charles alexander / chax press > > fold the book inside the book keep it open always > read from the inside out speak then > > Chax Press > 520-620-1626 (studio) > 520-275-4330 (cell) > chax@theriver.com > chax.org > 650 E. 9th St. > Tucson, AZ 85705 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 21:42:40 -0400 Reply-To: Kimberley Rogers Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kimberley Rogers Subject: Re: Ashbery on MTV?? Yet more suggestions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nemesis eh? Well, I'll even go with the brilliant breathtaking poets Eleanor Wilner, Anne Marie Macari, Kimiko Hahn, Diane Gilliam Fisher, Sarah Manguso, Sonia Sanchez, Annie Boutelle, Ellen Dore Watson ect.. ect.. I guess my point is its our time too and there are plenty to choose from without dipping into the same masculine barrel. I like all our male poets fine -- even love and adore many (Mark Doty, Mathew Zapruder, Frank Bidart, even our two "winners" ) but I can do with some really good strong female voices that represent our country outside the worshipping circle of Maya Angelou. I am very fond of someone's idea of a celebrity deathmatch between Simic and Ashbery--now if I can only choose which Victorian female poet they each should "duel read" against eachother. Emily Bronte's stinky "Hope" in slam fashion as read by Simic? Now that I would pay good money for, if I made good money as a poet. -----Original Message----- >From: Jason Quackenbush >Sent: Aug 28, 2007 8:20 PM >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: Ashbery on MTV?? > >or lyn hejinian or susan howe or rae armentrout or bernadette mayer or really anyone other than naomi shihab nye. > >nye probably doesn't know it, but she is my nemesis and has been ever since i read "making a fist." > > >On Tue, 28 Aug 2007, charles alexander wrote: > >> Yes! Although I would have, as first choice, Kathy Acker if she were still >> alive. For me, Anne Waldman or Erica Hunt or Alice Notley or Harryette Mullen >> or Dodie Bellamy or . . . >> >> charles >> >> At 07:27 AM 8/28/2007, Kimberley Rogers wrote: >>> Is it me or are we way overdue for women to be considered for all these >>> recently filled Poet Laureate decisions? (Not that I think the position is >>> indicative of a poet's importance) Naomi Shihab Nye is an excellent >>> candidate for the voice of America and the voice of the MTV generation right >>> now. I revolt--and methinks there must be a poem waitng to get out in me >>> somewhere on this subject--as always. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> >From: John Tranter >>> >Sent: Aug 27, 2007 6:11 PM >>> >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>> >Subject: Ashbery on MTV?? >>> > >>> >Hi, all: >>> > >>> >New York Times >>> >August 27, 2007 >>> >An 80-Year-Old Poet for the MTV Generation >>> >By MELENA RYZIK >>> > >>> >MtvU, the subsidiary of MTV Networks that is broadcast only on college >>> campuses, will announce today that it has selected its first poet laureate. >>> No, he doesn?t rap. And it?s not Bob Dylan, or even Justin Timberlake. >>> > >>> >It is John Ashbery, the prolific 80-year-old poet and frequent award winner >>> known for his dense, postmodern style and playful language. One of the most >>> celebrated living poets, Mr. Ashbery has won MacArthur Foundation and >>> Guggenheim fellowships and was awarded a Pulitzer Prize in 1976 for his >>> collection ?Self-Portrait in a Convex Mirror.? >>> > >>> >... more here: >>> > >>> >http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/27/books/27laur.html?ex=1188878400&e >>> n=c4e34a79300ffe48&ei=5070&emc=eta1 >>> > >>> >(you may need to repair the break in the URL). >>> > >>> >------------------------------------------ >>> >John Tranter >> >> charles alexander / chax press >> >> fold the book inside the book keep it open always >> read from the inside out speak then >> >> Chax Press >> 520-620-1626 (studio) >> 520-275-4330 (cell) >> chax@theriver.com >> chax.org >> 650 E. 9th St. >> Tucson, AZ 85705 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 22:07:05 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Ashbery on MTV?? In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20070828104912.0354fa30@theriver.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit or diane di prima or jorie graham or fanny howe or leslie scalapino or lyn hejinian--then again that osrt of position may not be right for such poets.... On 8/28/07 1:51 PM, "charles alexander" wrote: > Yes! Although I would have, as first choice, Kathy Acker if she were > still alive. For me, Anne Waldman or Erica Hunt or Alice Notley or > Harryette Mullen or Dodie Bellamy or . . . > > charles > > At 07:27 AM 8/28/2007, Kimberley Rogers wrote: >> Is it me or are we way overdue for women to be considered for all >> these recently filled Poet Laureate decisions? (Not that I think the >> position is indicative of a poet's importance) Naomi Shihab Nye is >> an excellent candidate for the voice of America and the voice of the >> MTV generation right now. I revolt--and methinks there must be a >> poem waitng to get out in me somewhere on this subject--as always. >> >> -----Original Message----- >>> From: John Tranter >>> Sent: Aug 27, 2007 6:11 PM >>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>> Subject: Ashbery on MTV?? >>> >>> Hi, all: >>> >>> New York Times >>> August 27, 2007 >>> An 80-Year-Old Poet for the MTV Generation >>> By MELENA RYZIK >>> >>> MtvU, the subsidiary of MTV Networks that is broadcast only on >> college campuses, will announce today that it has selected its >> first poet laureate. No, he doesn?t rap. And it?s not Bob Dylan, or >> even Justin Timberlake. >>> >>> It is John Ashbery, the prolific 80-year-old poet and frequent >> award winner known for his dense, postmodern style and playful >> language. One of the most celebrated living poets, Mr. Ashbery has >> won MacArthur Foundation and Guggenheim fellowships and was awarded >> a Pulitzer Prize in 1976 for his collection ?Self-Portrait in a >> Convex Mirror.? >>> >>> ... more here: >>> >>> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/27/books/27laur.html?ex=1188878400&e >> n=c4e34a79300ffe48&ei=5070&emc=eta1 >>> >>> (you may need to repair the break in the URL). >>> >>> ------------------------------------------ >>> John Tranter > > charles alexander / chax press > > fold the book inside the book keep it open always > read from the inside out speak then > > Chax Press > 520-620-1626 (studio) > 520-275-4330 (cell) > chax@theriver.com > chax.org > 650 E. 9th St. > Tucson, AZ 85705 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 22:12:12 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Ashbery on MTV?? SHERMAN ALEXIE In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit how about Conrad? On 8/28/07 1:32 PM, "David Chirot" wrote: > Whatever one may make of his various works, I think Sherman Alexie > would be a great candidate for an MTV laureate. (I'm not his biggest > fan, but do think he'd be great Mtv Laureate.) His work continually > makes use --hilarious, angry, bitter, turned upside down inside > out--of popular culture, movies, music, tv, basketball, popular > /assigned books, comic books, He often writes and says a lot of things > that the American culture high and low, select or mass--would prefer > to go unsaid and unheard, that keep things unsettling and > uncomfortable. He can be devastatingly annihilatingly analytical of > the gigantic crock of BS in the US and hysterically funny within the > same sentence. > (Ah! But he doesn't write New Sentences!-- some might > object--protesting the "Marginalization of ['Real'] Poetry." But > doesn't John Ashbery already cover some of this "Real Poetry" ground?) > > Heard him recently give talk with a reading in which he described > airline profiling from the point of view of an American Indian. In > the first place--WHAT are you? WHERE are you FROM? Asia? Southwest > Asia? Latin America? Not like you see a lot of Indians flying the > friendly skies of America! > After all, aren't America's First Peoples also its first > Guantanamo Poets? > > Americans build "Seperation" Walls and fences in Baghdad, on > the Mexican border and give billions for the world's biggest, best > equipped, Super-Max Security one in Palestine. And why not? Don't > they already have a long history and expertise in this form of ethnic > cleansing, anti-terrorism, National security? > > "They are still calling us 'savages,' 'terrorists,'" says > Leonard Peltier from his prison cell. So what do you do when "one of > them" gets on the nice airplane? > > "I have taken poison and made Medicine of it." > Charlie Hill, Indian comic > > Why not some Medicine words for Mtv poetry-- > > On 8/28/07, Kimberley Rogers wrote: >> Is it me or are we way overdue for women to be considered for all these >> recently filled Poet Laureate decisions? (Not that I think the position is >> indicative of a poet's importance) Naomi Shihab Nye is an excellent >> candidate for the voice of America and the voice of the MTV generation right >> now. I revolt--and methinks there must be a poem waitng to get out in me >> somewhere on this subject--as always. >> >> -----Original Message----- >>> From: John Tranter >>> Sent: Aug 27, 2007 6:11 PM >>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>> Subject: Ashbery on MTV?? >>> >>> Hi, all: >>> >>> New York Times >>> August 27, 2007 >>> An 80-Year-Old Poet for the MTV Generation >>> By MELENA RYZIK >>> >>> MtvU, the subsidiary of MTV Networks that is broadcast only on college >>> campuses, will announce today that it has selected its first poet laureate. >>> No, he doesn?t rap. And it?s not Bob Dylan, or even Justin Timberlake. >>> >>> It is John Ashbery, the prolific 80-year-old poet and frequent award winner >>> known for his dense, postmodern style and playful language. One of the most >>> celebrated living poets, Mr. Ashbery has won MacArthur Foundation and >>> Guggenheim fellowships and was awarded a Pulitzer Prize in 1976 for his >>> collection ?Self-Portrait in a Convex Mirror.? >>> >>> ... more here: >>> >>> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/27/books/27laur.html?ex=1188878400&en=c4e34a7 >>> 9300ffe48&ei=5070&emc=eta1 >>> >>> (you may need to repair the break in the URL). >>> >>> ------------------------------------------ >>> John Tranter >> ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 01:38:19 +0000 Reply-To: david@badnoiseproductions.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Applegate Subject: Bad Noise: new website, new content, Call for Submissions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello UB Poetics List! Some good news from Bad Noise... Bad Noise Productions has a new website at the same old address (www.badnoiseproductions.com) - tons of new content, images, information, the works. Click on it. Also, we'd like to offer you another free e-book: "In sterquiliniis invenitur," an alchemical comic loop featuring a 19th c. boxer + plenty of oroboros action. Keep in mind the perpetual "CALL FOR SUBMISSIONS" - please view our 'contact' page for more information + send us some goddamned mail-art. "WE WILL SEND SOMETHING BACK." Best wishes, David Applegate Asst. for Acquisitions www.badnoiseproductions.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 22:02:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ryan Downey Subject: mtvU Student Poetry Award MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline The press release seems to be hyping this as a novel sort of idea. I originally was hoping that this contest for "college students" would be limited to undergraduate (that is what college implies isn't it) students. The guidelines quite clearly show that all university students undergraduate or graduate may send in submissions. My question is: how is this any different from any first book contest? It is an uphill battle to be taken seriously as an undergrad writer and this contest does nothing to address that. Am I off base here? Why hype the contest as a search for young college talent blah blah blah hype-cakes and then open it up to so many poets who are already finding avenues for their work? I have a feeling I am repeating myself so I will stop now. I am sorry if I have offended graduate students. -Ryan Downey ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 19:43:51 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: mtvU Student Poetry Award In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline poet Ross Martin (THE COP WHO RIDES ALONE) used to work in some sort of senior producing capacity at MTVu, I thought when I see this sort of thing, I think of probably someone like Ross who is pushing for something for poetry because he can, and I find it difficult to grouse about it -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly@gmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 20:31:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alexander Jorgensen Subject: Fwd: FROM EXILE: THE YAK BLESSING BY KATHUP TSERING MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The Yak Blessing Kathup Tsering "Drum of a dying nation, Kathup Tsering demonstrates in his new work that breath is one's license. For thirteen years, he has dreamed, built, and graciously shared a consciousness constructed by three significant cultural forces - Tibet, the People's Republic of China, and India - and all while living in exile, much of it amid the cleansing waters and cross-cultural clime of Himalaya's ancient spires. It is with an acuity and sternness of words that Tsering conveys the most intimate of painful experiences with sensitivity, and an anticipation for renewal. With brilliance seated in both the traditional and contemporary sphere, his achievement is that he is helping to shape and re-define contemporary Indian poetry; and in doing so, reaffirms that one's voice need not be relegated to any particular genre. As with the penetrating "Don't Be Afraid, Mother," each word chosen seems to delicately trace itself, the poet's observations and passions rooted in what is open and beautiful. His collection re-animates, one could say, those lost in such areas as Barkhor, or the dedicated snowy trails leading to Nepal -- and eventual freedom." --Alexander Jorgensen. BUY THIS BOOK. http://books.lulu.com/content/1142809 -- Marcus Aurelius: "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 20:51:20 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alexander Jorgensen Subject: From: Everyone is gay, to: I'm not gay! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Some interesting video on Larry Craig online. Seems he was singled-out during a Washington investigation of a cocaine and page boy ring during the 1980s. --- The complaint said Craig then tapped his right foot several times and moved it closer to Karsnia's stall and then moved it to where it touched Karsnia's foot. Karsnia recognized that "as a signal often used by persons communicating a desire to engage in sexual conduct," the complaint said. Craig then passed his left hand under the stall divider into Karsnia's stall with his palm up and guided it along the divider toward the front of the stall three times, the complaint said. The officer then showed his police identification under the divider and pointed toward the exit "at which time the defendant exclaimed `No!'" the complaint said. For the rest of the story: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070829/ap_on_go_co/craig_arrest -- Marcus Aurelius: "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 13:25:06 +0900 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Glass Subject: Drew Stroud in hospital MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear All, I just received notice from Eric Mader that Drew Stroud/ Ryu Makoto, fine poet and owner of Saru Press suffered a serious stroke on June 25th and has been in a coma at UC Medical Center ICU, San Francisco, ever since. Friends may contact the hospital social worker, Elizabeth Manning at manninge@surgery.ucsf.edu. I can also share Ms. Manning's work and pager numbers back-channel. Perhaps poets on this list who reside in and around San Francisco can find out what's happening and let us all know. Thanks, Jesse Glass ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 23:34:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nico Vassilakis Subject: SuBtExT seattle: Lissa Wolsak & Robert Mittenthal Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Subtext continues its monthly reading series with readings by Lissa Wolsak and Robert Mittenthal at our new home at the Chapel Performance Space on Wednesday 5 September 2007. Donations for admission will be taken at the door on the evening of the performance. The reading starts at 7:30pm. *Lissa Wolsak lives in Vancouver, British Columbia where she works as an energy/thought-field therapist and goldsmith. She is the author of several long poem sequences and essays; SQUEEZED LIGHT: Collected Works 1994 - 2005 is forthcoming from Station Hill Press/Barrytown in the Fall of 2007 as well as various ana of the forthcoming Of Beings Alone from TinFISH. http://ca.geocities.com/alterra@rogers.com/wolsak3.htm http://9thstlab.blogspot.com/2006/10/from-thrall-by-lissa-wolsak.html *Robert Mittenthal is a curator of the Subtext reading series. He is author of Martyr Economy, Ready Terms, and the forthcoming chapbook Value Unmapped (Nomados). His poems have appeared in a variety of publications including: Golden Handcuffs; Bird Dog; Sugar Mule; W; Alterra; and KSW's Writing Class Anthology. http://www.goldenhandcuffsreview.com/gh8content/r3.html http://ca.geocities.com/alterra@rogers.com/mitt2.htm The future Subtext schedule is: October 3, 2007 - Kathleen Fraser (Bay Area) & Crystal Curry November 7, 2007 - Golden Handcuffs Review Reading - Seattle Issue Launch December 5, 2007 - Alison Knowles (New York) - co-presented with nonsequitur January 2, 2008 - TBA February 6, 2008 - Hank Lazer (Tuscaloosa, AL) & TBA March 5, 2008 - Steve McCaffery (Toronto/Buffalo) & TBA For info on these & other Subtext events, see our website: http://subtextreadingseries.blogspot.com/ and http://www.speakeasy.org/~subtext More info at Nonsequitur web site: http://nseq.blogspot.com. Details on the Chapel at: http://gschapel.blogspot.com SPECIAL THANKS to NONSEQUITUR for co-sponsoring this event. Also... September 12, 7:30pm - Words, and Music and Words: dan raphael and Doug Nufer/ Wally Shoup/ Bill Horist at the Rendezvous Jewelbox Theater 2320 2nd Ave. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:09:46 +1000 Reply-To: John Tranter Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Tranter Subject: Totally Unfounded Rumours Comments: To: British Poets List , PoetryEtc discussion list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Listmembers might enjoy some of these "totally unfounded rumours". http://unfoundedrumors.blogspot.com/2007_06_01_archive.html Actually, I don't know whether they are "genuine" totally unfounded rumours... ... or maybe someone made them up, and so they may be "untrue" totally unfounded rumours, but some of them are strangely poetic, whatever the origin. I love the one about Charles de Gaulle: French General Charles de Gaulle once killed a man during World War II by cutting his throat with a deep-frozen flounder. John Tranter ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 05:21:03 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Beckett Subject: GALATEA RESURRECTS, ISSUE NO. 7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable GALATEA RESURRECTS (A POETRY ENGAGEMENT) is pleased to release its seventh =20 issue. You can access the issue at _http://galatearesurrection7.blogspot.co= m_=20 (http://galatearesurrection7.blogspot.com/) For convenience, the Table of=20 Contents is also featured below. =20 Please note we are always looking for reviewers and review copies; =20 information about review submission is at http://grarchives.blogspot.com. GALATEA RESURRECTS, ISSUE NO. 7 =20 TABLE OF CONTENTS=20 August 31, 2007 EDITOR'S INTRODUCTION By Eileen Tabios NEW REVIEWS Jessica Bozek reviews AFTER YOU, DEAREST LANGUAGE by Marisol Limon Martine= z Nicholas Manning reviews POEM FOR THE END OF TIME AND OTHER POEMS by Noelle= =20 Kocot Eileen Tabios engages THE STEAM SEQUENCE by Carly Sachs Brian Strang reviews BROKEN WORLD by Joseph Lease Brenda Iijima reviews A HALF-RED SEA by Evie Shockley Patrick James Dunagan reviews A FIDDLE PULLED FROM THE THROAT OF A SPARROW=20 by Noah Eli Gordon Nicholas Grider reviews INSECT COUNTRY (A), INSECT COUNTRY (B), and the=20 INSECT TUTELAGE BLOG by Sawako Nakayasu Patrick James Dunagan reviews TRAFFIC: A PUBLICATION OF SMALL PRESS TRAFFIC= ,=20 ISSUES 1 AND 2, (2005-2007) edited by Elizabeth Treadwell Teresa Carmody reviews [one love affair]* by Jenny Boully John Bloomberg-Rissman reviews THE BODY ACHES and NOT EVEN DOGS by Ernesto=20 Priego Nicholas Grider reviews NETS by Jen Bervin Patrick James Dunagan reviews HOUSE ORGAN #58 Win/Spr =E2=80=9907 edited by= Kenneth=20 Warren Nicholas Manning reviews GUESTS OF SPACE by Anselm Hollo Rochita Loenen-Ruiz reviews THE GODS WE WORSHIP LIVE NEXT DOOR by Bino A.=20 Realuyo Jennifer Bartlett reviews THE SECOND CHILD by Deborah Garrison Eileen Tabios engages BROKEN/OPEN by Jill Jones Laurel Johnson reviews THE ELEPHANT HOUSE by Claudia Carlson Alysha Wood reviews a(A)ugust by Akilah Oliver, with collages by Brenda=20 Iijima Eileen Tabios engages BELLUM LETTERS by Michelle Detorie Steve Halle reviews POSIT by Adam Fieled Paul Klinger reviews THE BOOK OF OCEAN BY Maryrose Larkin Michelle Detorie reviews BIRDS AND FANCIES by Elizabeth Treadwell Eileen Tabios engages ERRATUM to and including A SPY IN THE HOUSE OF YEARS=20 (LEVIATHAN PRESS, 2001) by Giles Goodland=20 Craig Santos Perez reviews NAMES ABOVE HOUSES by Oliver de la Paz Christopher Mulrooney reviews OSIP MANDELSTAM: NEW TRANSLATIONS edited by=20 Ilya Bernstein Craig Santos Perez reviews ANYWHERE AVENUE by Oscar Bermeo Christopoher Mulrooney reviews STIGMATA ERRATA ETCETERA by Bill Knott, with= =20 collages by Star Black=20 Nicholas Grider reviews THE STATES, Vols. 1 and 2 by Craig Foltz, designed=20 and edited by designed and edited by Ellie Ga, and with photographs by Will= iam=20 Gillespie, Justin Ulmer, Martin Bland, Sabra Cox, Kristina Del Pino, Simona= =20 Schneider, Florence Neal, Jon Ciliberto, Stephen Mead, Christa HOlka, Don=20 Goede, Lyn Lifshin, Shelton Walsmith, Marie Kazalia, Rebekah Travis, Lara=20 Khalil, Tracy Lee Carroll, Jennifer Stahl, Barbara Henning, Jade Doskow, Da= vid=20 McConeghy, Jared Zimmerman, Alice Arnold, Robert Matson, Mary Wrenn, Julia=20= Marta=20 Clapp, Tina Burton, Jim Simandl, Philip Metres, Chris Hampton, Hayley Barke= r,=20 Thomas Ciufo, Meredyth Sparks, Shannon Shaper, Renae Morehead, Ryn=20 Gargulinski, Robert S. Dunn, Jen Hofer, David Gatten, Jerilyn Myran, Shara=20 Shisheboran, Courtney Fischer, ARiana Smart Truman, Tod Seelie, David W. Le= e, Katherine=20 McDowell, Mike Mahaffie, Willile Baronet, Karen Lillis, Paul Yoo, Justin=20 Simonsen and Elizabeth Willis. Beatriz Tabios engages BRIDGEABLE SHORES: SELECTED POEMS (1969-2001) by Lui= s=20 Cabalquinto Carlos Hiraldo reviews THE SALESMAN'S SHOES by James Roderick Burns Nicholas Manning reviews FOLLY by Nada Gordon Alysha Wood reviews trespasses by Padcha Tuntha-obas Kristin Berkey-Abbott reviews THE MCSWEENEY BOOK OF POETS PICKING POETS=20 edited by Dominic Lumford Joe LeClerc reviews THE ENEMY SELF: POETRY & CRITICISM OF LAURA RIDING=20 edited by Barbara Adams Hugh Fox reviews LIBIDO DREAMS: NEW AND SELECTED POEMS by Glenna Luschei Laurel Johnson reviews THE MOUNTAIN IN THE SEA by Victor Hernandez Cruz Craig Santos Perez reviews THE WIND SHIFTS: NEW LATINO POETRY edited by=20 Francisco Aragon Kristin Berkey-Abbott reviews PUNK POEMS by John Burgess Julie R. Enszer Reviews SUGARING by Ann Cefola Julie R. Enszer Reviews TEAHOUSE OF THE ALMIGHTY by Patricia Smith Julie R. Enszer Reviews CINEPHRASTICS by Kathleen Ossip Julie R. Enszer Reviews THE PARAGON by Kathrine Varnes Julie R. Enszer Reviews KALI=E2=80=99S BLADE by Michelle Bautista Julie R. Enszer Reviews three books by Rochelle Ratner: QUARRY, COMBING THE= =20 WAVES, and PRACTICING TO BE A WOMAN=20 FEATURE ARTICLE "Objections to the Beauty-Object: A Reading of Two Poems by Barbara Guest"=20 by Catherine Wagner "The Ocean At Night: An Inside Look at the Poetry Process" by Aimee Celino=20 Nezhukumatathil FROM OFFLINE TO ONLINE: REPRINTED REVIEWS Catherine Wagner reviews 19 VARIETIES OF GAZELLE: POEMS OF THE MIDDLE EAST=20 by Naomi Shihab Nye and EMAILS FROM SCHEHEREZAD by Mohja Kahf Catherine Wagner reviews CATALOGUE OF COMEDIC NOVELTIES: SELECTED POEMS by=20 Lev Rubinstein, Translated by Philip Metres and Tatiana Tulchinsky Catherine Wagner engages four books by Alice Notley: DISOBEDIENCE, MARGARET= =20 AND DUSTY, MYSTERIES OF SMALL HOUSES and SELECTED POEMS "ADVERTISEMENT" Poetry Feeds The World! BACK COVER =20 Winepoetics! ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL a= t=20 http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 09:05:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Old folds can write to. In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit thank you, Diane. just ordered it. On 8/28/07 1:39 PM, "Diane DiPrima" wrote: > Deena Metzger's "Writing for Your Life" is invaluable for all middle- and > late-year beginning writers. I don't know if it's still in print. > > Diane di Prima > > >> From: Catherine Daly >> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >> Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 16:39:56 -0700 >> To: >> Subject: Re: Old folds can write to. >> >> Koch's book is interesting, not real useful, but it points out >> possible points of discussion, teaching the elderly. For example, the >> people Koch taught in a nursing home were very infirm. Fewer older >> people are very infirm for a long period anymore. That might be an >> interesting discussion to include in the course if you use the Koch >> book. >> >> For example, the friends of the library here is in the energetic >> grandparents raising a second generation of children group, 65-85ish. >> The president turned the group into an oral history / local history >> group sponsoring arts workshops and events at the branch library. >> >> My paternal grandmother LOVED her local senior center -- this was >> about 30 years ago, tho. My maternal grandmother wouldn't be caught >> dead there. My paternal grandmother also went straight to a nursing >> home during her decline, while my grandmother lived in assisted living >> -- she had her own apartment, but didn't have to cook dinner or clean >> -- from her very late 80s until her mid 90s. During most of that >> time, she was not infirm or isolated from the larger community. >> >> A lot of seniors I've met as book fests in particular are really >> interested in diy publishing: how to make a chapbook on the computer, >> dos and don'ts of lulu.com, what a broadside is, or something like >> that might go over really, really well and be fun besides. Maybe a >> collaborative book or collection? >> >> I've had good results with occasional verse, postcard poems, mail art, >> renga.... >> >> -- >> All best, >> Catherine Daly >> c.a.b.daly@gmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 08:09:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve russell Subject: Ashbery on MTV?? FUCKING CAMILIA PAGLIA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Camilia Paglia, she rocks. She likes rock. She'd be perfect. She digs poetry. PROBLEM SOLVED. PAGLIA ON MTV////////////////////////////////////////////// --------------------------------- Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 09:19:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: philomene long: LA memorial service MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline There is a service at the Zen Center of Los Angeles Today August 29th at 7:00 p.m. parking is available within the compound. -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly@gmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 10:08:58 -0700 Reply-To: adeniro@rocketmail.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan DeNiro Subject: The Stations: book-length poem available for free download MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit "this is the last instant that will bark at this instant adventure offers reality as a fen of vetoproof time" I've released my book-length poem, The Stations, under a very loose-limbed Creative Commons license. Feel free to download, sample (with attribution), liquify (ditto), etc. The URL is here: http://www.archive.org/details/TheStations Best, Alan DeNiro adeniro@gmail.com _____________ The Stations 165 pp. http://www.archive.org/details/TheStations * The People's League of Speculative Poetry http://groups.google.com/group/speculativepoetry ____________________________________________________________________________________ Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 13:21:51 GMT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "holsapple1@juno.com" Subject: Mary Rising Higgins Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii John Tritica & I interviewed Mary last February, before her final illnes= s, & we will be looking for a venue soon. Also, I recorded Mary several= times for Vox Audio, & those CDs are available thru Vox. Back-channel = for a titles. = Bruce ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 11:14:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: thom donovan Subject: LAST MINUTE: Peace On A Presents Tonya Foster & Jane Sprague THIS Friday, 8/31 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Peace On A presents Tonya Foster & Jane Sprague Friday August 31st, 2007 9PM Hosted by Thom Donovan at 166 Avenue A (btwn 10th and 11th) NY NY 10009 BYOB & $5 recommended donation About the readers: Jane Sprague is a poet and teacher. Her poems, essays and reviews of contemporary poetry have been published in various print and online magazines including How2, Tarpaulin Sky, Primary Writing, Kiosk, Tinfish, Xcp: Cross-Cultural Poetics and others. She is author of the chapbooks The Port of Los Angeles, monster: a bestiary, break / fast, fuck your pastoral and Entropic Liberties (with Jonathan Skinner). Her books The Port of Los Angeles and Extreme Global: La Ciudad sin Extremo / Los Angeles are forthcoming in 2008. She edits and publishes Palm Press, www.palmpress.org, from Long Beach, California where she teaches writing at CSULB and Golden West College. You can visit her classroom anytime at occupationspace.blogspot.com . Mount Pinos: Politics of the Unread the directions maintain fragments of "this" pure pine pile up sulfur rattlers bark cut sharp with slant "L" askance/the gaze/cut to known pronoun/proverb/pro let aire there is no other than that which already within you but the bittern bark the blades trace path from ocean sullied under coast packed in like rats shouldered up to one fine clatter manse with no lawn no nature to speak of * but to maintain directions— impropriety of no one my child comes running pier side/dry dock/ canal stink lip "sharks! big fish!" and I too late for the glimpse though having seen them too the histories of fishes blunt cut any path to narrative or narrativity voices/voiceless swim * the way of it the way the place here place of pronouns supple reach place shark empty place rays anchovy black jellies pale listing to red tide wetland reclamation space they moved the highway they built this island they dredge the creamy seamless coast to water to wetland to piles to pinging depth charge naval seal ship bevied levied with fear fear grips who's the bigger dark lurker now? * these days my materia medica some bittern arsenal some tern-like commission to sneak in/pull yield they're making nests for the killdeer sapling white pelican lesser grebe spoonbill skimmer sea hare dainty mole crab with her fine fiddler freight orange roe cake a sample for sale response—an utterance what words do rise up in iris flipped gaze the mimic to stutter arctic—or just tic a long thigh a long thick finger of grease spill leak from something these monstrous yachts doth offend thee oh evermore than any Ulsan oil seep gutter to stillness or smother the grunions left offspring eke out a living at the edge of such opening gaps layers of oil one shiny magenta yellow blue not distinct indeterminate pure petrol absolutely bad flow fills my neighborhood water artery wet streets and us no boat to row— so the watcher, come looker what choice her fine foot/tucks/sidewalk to city beach fine picking litter—the effronter of dunderheaded gargantua this bottle cap condom cup and again repeat into stillness this weekend, next—what dates what matter again and again we do it bend spines to the earth our littoral zone ~ Jane Sprague ____________________________________________________________________________________ Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 11:14:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: d-b Chirot's "No Place to Move/Shadow Walls" flickr at ::: wood s lot ::: "the fitful tracing of a portal" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline just learned you can see my flickr gallery "No Place to Move/Shadow Walls" at the latest Wood's Lot blog- is included in the entries on 26 August http://web.ncf.ca/ek867/wood_s_lot.html --- these have also appeared on Marco Giovenale's blogs Slowforward and others more galleries to follow shortly at my flickr and ongoing works of mine and many others at etc at http://davidbaptistechirot.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 11:14:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: From: Everyone is gay, to: I'm not gay! In-Reply-To: <365579.62299.qm@web54603.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Although I'm glad to learn the specifics of this story which I only heard briefly on the radio this morning, I'd like to know what this scandal has to do with poetry until someone writes a poem about it. Matthew Shepard's anthology is a great book by the way. I only rediscovered it yesterday. It has a poem in it by John Ashbery, of all people. Regards, Tom Savage Alexander Jorgensen wrote: Some interesting video on Larry Craig online. Seems he was singled-out during a Washington investigation of a cocaine and page boy ring during the 1980s. --- The complaint said Craig then tapped his right foot several times and moved it closer to Karsnia's stall and then moved it to where it touched Karsnia's foot. Karsnia recognized that "as a signal often used by persons communicating a desire to engage in sexual conduct," the complaint said. Craig then passed his left hand under the stall divider into Karsnia's stall with his palm up and guided it along the divider toward the front of the stall three times, the complaint said. The officer then showed his police identification under the divider and pointed toward the exit "at which time the defendant exclaimed `No!'" the complaint said. For the rest of the story: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070829/ap_on_go_co/craig_arrest -- Marcus Aurelius: "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." --------------------------------- Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 08:15:49 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Susan Webster Schultz Subject: MTV laureate MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There have been plenty of women poet laureates in recent years, among them Rita Dove, Louise Gluck, and others. What there have not been are gay or lesbian poets. So I stand in support of John Ashbery for MTV poet laureate! Plus he's a wonderful poet. Susan M. Schultz http://tinfishpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 13:03:35 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve russell Subject: ashbery on MTV?? why not camille paglia or Jim Carroll MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit either Camille or Carroll would work on MTV. Jim Carroll was, and perhaps he still is, a legit rocker. He's probably still younger then anyone in the Stones. His Catholic Boy album was one of the better pieces of vinyl produced in the eighties. He's a very good poet. Check out his "The Book of Nods." & Paglia too. She can entertain, and she's into rock and poetry, although she's not an Ashbery fan. Harold Bloom was her mentor at Yale. Bloom, Mr. Canonized himself, a guy who has always been in Ashbery's corner. Having a mouth as biting as Paglia's would be fun. Why not Carroll and Paglia? --------------------------------- Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 22:50:27 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barry Schwabsky Subject: Re: From: Everyone is gay, to: I'm not gay! In-Reply-To: <365579.62299.qm@web54603.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Why are police officers hanging around in airport men's rooms waiting to ge picked up? Alexander Jorgensen wrote: Some interesting video on Larry Craig online. Seems he was singled-out during a Washington investigation of a cocaine and page boy ring during the 1980s. --- The complaint said Craig then tapped his right foot several times and moved it closer to Karsnia's stall and then moved it to where it touched Karsnia's foot. Karsnia recognized that "as a signal often used by persons communicating a desire to engage in sexual conduct," the complaint said. Craig then passed his left hand under the stall divider into Karsnia's stall with his palm up and guided it along the divider toward the front of the stall three times, the complaint said. The officer then showed his police identification under the divider and pointed toward the exit "at which time the defendant exclaimed `No!'" the complaint said. For the rest of the story: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070829/ap_on_go_co/craig_arrest -- Marcus Aurelius: "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 15:23:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Re: MTV laureate In-Reply-To: <46D5B7D5.2090607@hawaii.rr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I wouldn't exactly say there have been "plenty of women poet laureates", though they were appointed more recently than earlier: U.S. Poet Laureate Timeline [1937 - 2006 = 37 Men and 8 Women] -- http://amyking.org/blog/?p=192 But agreed: Ashbery is a good choice for MTVu because his poetry is lively and will appeal to the "multi-tasking" and "multi-associating" attention spans of those raised with the internet on their screens and in their hands ... his range of work will certainly appeal to those new emerging literacies. As for Paglia, I think she'd be a short-lived choice as her poetry wouldn't have the reach among the teen and twenty somethings that Ashbery's would. As for Susan's point about the gaping lack of missing gay and lesbian poets -- a hearty yes! Amy http://amyking.org/blog/ Susan Webster Schultz wrote: There have been plenty of women poet laureates in recent years, among them Rita Dove, Louise Gluck, and others. What there have not been are gay or lesbian poets. So I stand in support of John Ashbery for MTV poet laureate! Plus he's a wonderful poet. Susan M. Schultz http://tinfishpress.com --------------------------------- Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 18:14:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Cryptic Philosophy of Dispersion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cryptic Philosophy of Dispersion Reification as false consciousness in relation to mediation of labor BUT commodities in relation to exchange-value are transformed into fields of exchange - the ontology of commodities becomes a process- ontology (as opposed to state) Statements are reification / residue - their communality establishes virtual community (all communities are virtual) Commodities and statements are field phenomena (re: Minsky, mind) (Field phenomena are virtual) (Processes are virtual) BUT what do we mean by virtual? Processes and communities are measurable through verification procedures inhabiting inscriptions Don't all verification procedures inhabit inscriptions? What constitutes the MATERIAL SUBSTRATE of verification? One can imagine an OBJECT, but one can also imagine a REPORT OBJECTS REPORT Inscriptions are REPORTS OF REPORTS REPORTS SPLIT into constituent syntactical elements Semantics : MATERIAL SUBSTRATE :: syntactics : INHABITED INSCRIPTIONS Rewriting Marx via Lukacs: "A commodity is therefore not a thing at all. The social character of human labor appears to us as an objective character stamped upon processes which problematize the very concept of objective character. Social relations are smeared among processes and consciousnesses, among the social and a hypothetical objectivity. Not commodities, but commodification is simultaneously perceptible and imperceptible, and commodification undermines the very concept of 'thing' as well as 'ding an sich.' The relationships among humans and processes are incapable of disentanglement; we are far from the techne of Marx and classical reification of Lukacs." Rewriting Foucault: "Concepts such as discontinuity, rupture, threshold, limit, series, and transformation all characterize, not only the analogic and digital, but the liminal regions of consciousness and physicality inhabiting (not existing within) the virtual. Now we can call 'formula- tion' the individual or collective process that construes signs, signing, tagging, and/or inscription (keeping in mind that THE VIRTUAL IS ALWAYS INSCRIPTION). Formulation, if an event at all, is a smeared or stained process which can never be localized (located by its spatio-temporal coordinates); it need not relate to an author, issue from an author (real or virtual or bot or any Other/other); if one insists that formulation is performative, then one must also insist that THE WORLD ITSELF IS PERFORM- ATIVE. There is no getting around the sign, getting around with it; it is easier than one might think to get around without it." "_Letter Deity._ Then, think that [the mind realizing the ultimate deity] appears in the sky in the aspect of the written letters of the mantra of the appropriate deity. Think that the mind having the aspect of [realis- ing] the suchness of oneself and the deity as undifferentiable has become a moon disc and that on it [the letters] are set in order [the sounds of the letters mixing with the form] like very pure mercury adhering [that is, mixing completely with] grains of gold. This is the letter deity." (Tsong-ka-pa, The Yoga of Tibet, The Great Exposition of Secret Mantra, trans. Jeffrey Hopkins.) Akasa (space, principle of accommodation): "Akasa ever remains untouched by dust and darkness. Dust and darkness appear and disappear; they are contingent; but akasa ever remains as it is. They are not anything that itself arises and perishes, nor do they ever become dirty; not becoming dirty they cannot even be said to have become pure, for they never were impure; in truth they lie beyond the determinate natures of pure and impure. They ever remain untouched by dust and water." (Reworked from Nagarjuna's Philosophy as presented in The Maha-Prajnaparamita-Sastra, K. Venkata Ramanan.) Begin with singularities within a classical Wittgenstein (TLP) / Hertz axiomatic tradition; subtract the logicism; liquify the singularities; channel them through Waddington's chreods; channel them through hierarchic networks; channel them through holarchic networks; eliminate the nodes and channels; transform the liquidity into dust-motilities; transform the dust-motilities into radiations; transforms the traditions into groundless flux-processes; whirl the flux-processes around the interned memory of singularities and axiomatics; report back to the reports; report nowhere; whirl the flux-processes around the reports; remember deaths and annihila- tions; whirl the deaths, the annihilations... http://www.asondheim.org/royrogers2.mp3 http://www.asondheim.org/royrogers1.mp3 (Distorted signals from satellite television channel playing a Roy Rogers film; the soundtrack was corrupted. I filtered the result; royrogers2 is spoken-word and perhaps of greater interest.) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 18:21:01 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: From: Everyone is gay, to: I'm not gay! In-Reply-To: <355483.35138.qm@web31115.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Everything, dear Tom, has to do with poetry--and/or vice versa. Hal "You are at the highest level. There are no folders above this one." --a Microsoft message Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Aug 29, 2007, at 2:14 PM, Thomas savage wrote: > Although I'm glad to learn the specifics of this story which I only > heard briefly on the radio this morning, I'd like to know what this > scandal has to do with poetry until someone writes a poem about > it. Matthew Shepard's anthology is a great book by the way. I > only rediscovered it yesterday. It has a poem in it by John > Ashbery, of all people. Regards, Tom Savage > > Alexander Jorgensen wrote: Some > interesting video on Larry Craig online. Seems he was singled-out > during a Washington investigation of a cocaine and page boy ring > during the 1980s. > > > --- > > The complaint said Craig then tapped his right foot several times > and moved it closer to Karsnia's stall and then moved it to where > it touched Karsnia's foot. Karsnia recognized that "as a signal > often used by persons communicating a desire to engage in sexual > conduct," the complaint said. > > > Craig then passed his left hand under the stall divider into > Karsnia's stall with his palm up and guided it along the divider > toward the front of the stall three times, the complaint said. > > The officer then showed his police identification under the divider > and pointed toward the exit "at which time the defendant exclaimed > `No!'" the complaint said. > > For the rest of the story: > > http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070829/ap_on_go_co/craig_arrest > > > -- > Marcus Aurelius: "The object of life is not to be on the side of > the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the > insane." > > > > --------------------------------- > Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 23:26:58 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: big penis rock hard balls joy ride history of the world MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed big penis rock hard balls joy ride history of the world teenage boys drive big penises and wear big penis ornaments and we're all pushing our tiny penises around the playing field or looking for a rhyme to hid our tiny penises while we arm ourselves with big penis guns and missiles all pointy and the like to kill big and little penises anywhere we can, we want to be the only penises in sight and we want our tiny penises hidden but our big penis houses and big giant penis top-fuel dragsters in sight so we can raise big-penis fear while we stain books and canvas with big penis smearings while our tiny penises throb and shake, teenage boys send big penis smearings across networks and wires smearing tags blowing bits and bytes while big penises announce they are hot and ready and there and their tiny penises shake with joy and happiness and our big penis arms push tiny penis boys into dirt and girls and big penis legs throw bombs into books made from bombs and we big-penis love everything that thumps and throws giant balls into girl ball party groups, makes big penis sound jump the curb, when we drive we say Our big penis has arrived, Yes, Our big penis is here, we write big penis books, we point big penises, big giant penises, enormous penises, things disappear ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 15:55:15 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Amish Trivedi Subject: Re: From: Everyone is gay, to: I'm not gay! In-Reply-To: <142622.70135.qm@web86009.mail.ird.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I was humored by Craig's statement that he has "a wide stance" amish Barry Schwabsky wrote: Why are police officers hanging around in airport men's rooms waiting to ge picked up? Alexander Jorgensen wrote: Some interesting video on Larry Craig online. Seems he was singled-out during a Washington investigation of a cocaine and page boy ring during the 1980s. --- The complaint said Craig then tapped his right foot several times and moved it closer to Karsnia's stall and then moved it to where it touched Karsnia's foot. Karsnia recognized that "as a signal often used by persons communicating a desire to engage in sexual conduct," the complaint said. Craig then passed his left hand under the stall divider into Karsnia's stall with his palm up and guided it along the divider toward the front of the stall three times, the complaint said. The officer then showed his police identification under the divider and pointed toward the exit "at which time the defendant exclaimed `No!'" the complaint said. For the rest of the story: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070829/ap_on_go_co/craig_arrest -- Marcus Aurelius: "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." "Christopher Columbus, as everyone knows, is honored by posterity because he was the last to discover America." -James Joyce ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 19:01:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aryanil Mukherjee Subject: Re: MTV laureate In-Reply-To: <46D5B7D5.2090607@hawaii.rr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That's a laudably bold and clear stand for a great poet any language should be proud of. I remember, you wrote - "John Ashbery is America's greatest living poet, he is also greatly misunderstood". Whether Ashbery and MTV go together is a mute point, but the "old folks can also write" verbatim confounded me. Poets aren't soccer players, I always thought. There are scores of old poets, both men and women, that I can think of in a large number of languages around the world who have written/write competent (if not good or new) poetry. Adonis, for example, at 75+ is an outstanding example - a probable Nobel candidate for 2008. Ferlinghetti still writes good poetry (if not inspiring) at 88. So does Snyder. There are others, don't forget Diane di Prima. I'd like to quote Ashbery here on the challenges and virtues of older poets from a John Tranter (& Jacket Magazine) interview of JA from 1988 - "Also I think the fact that the older one gets - for many people, at least - the more prolific one gets, realising there aren't the oceans of time that seem to be stretching ahead when one was young. And one learns to use it, and realise how precious it is." I have been working with John Ashbery for about three years now on a self-funded translation (into Bengali) project which I recently concluded with an interview (to appear in Kaurab, September 07) , the Bengali version of which is due to appear in Kabisammelan, a poetry-monthly published from Kolkata, India. Here is a little sneak preview from that interview - a response which I liked a lot...see that as exemplary for younger poets like us - when asked about if he still reads his contemporaries, JA reflects - "I don't read the work of my friends anymore (smiles)...specially my own work, which I don't read at all. So I don't have much idea as to what New York School poetry is like. Basically, of late I like to read the more young contemporary poets, many of them have been influenced by me and who have then gone on to write their own and are now influencing me. " I'll put my hands together for such an "old folk". Aryanil Mukherjee ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Webster Schultz" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 2:15 PM Subject: MTV laureate > There have been plenty of women poet laureates in recent years, among them > Rita Dove, > Louise Gluck, and others. What there have not been are gay or lesbian > poets. So I stand > in support of John Ashbery for MTV poet laureate! Plus he's a wonderful > poet. > > Susan M. Schultz > > http://tinfishpress.com > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: > 269.12.12/979 - Release Date: 8/29/2007 8:21 PM > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 19:56:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: MTV laureate In-Reply-To: <525678.24564.qm@web83313.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed 34 men--three were repeats. Since it's a political appointment, there should obviously be something like proportional representation. Has anyone checked which states they came from? If we say that Frost represents New Hampshire, for instance, shouldn't there have been 20 from New York? Clearly impractical, but is the breakdown by regions appropriate? Could the injustices be righted by appointing posthumously poets for all of the unclaimed years between 1776 and 1937? Like the conversions of the dead practiced by the (unrepresented) Mormons? An advantage of this solution is that the dead rarely complain about how they're identified. No First Nations laureates. No handicapped. No Little People. Too many Jews. No Asians. Not a single Moslem, Hindu, Buddhist. Are there enough Catholics? William Carlos Williams is the closest thing to Latino. I spot one gay and one lesbian, but there may be others whose orientation I don't know. Shouldn't those short-listed be asked and outed? A wrinkle is that the demographics of 1937 and 2007 are not the same. So maybe the population breakdown for the entire period should be averaged. Just so we know what's fair. How about the relative dearth of essential poets, regardless of group identity? The great ones seem to have been appointed almost by mistake, and way too many are conspicuous by their absence. Mark At 06:23 PM 8/29/2007, you wrote: >I wouldn't exactly say there have been "plenty of women poet >laureates", though they were appointed more recently than earlier: > >U.S. Poet Laureate Timeline [1937 - 2006 = 37 Men and 8 Women] -- >http://amyking.org/blog/?p=192 > >But agreed: Ashbery is a good choice for MTVu because his poetry is >lively and will appeal to the "multi-tasking" and >"multi-associating" attention spans of those raised with the >internet on their screens and in their hands ... his range of work >will certainly appeal to those new emerging literacies. As for >Paglia, I think she'd be a short-lived choice as her poetry wouldn't >have the reach among the teen and twenty somethings that Ashbery's would. > >As for Susan's point about the gaping lack of missing gay and >lesbian poets -- a hearty yes! > >Amy >http://amyking.org/blog/ > > >Susan Webster Schultz wrote: There have been >plenty of women poet laureates in recent years, among >them Rita Dove, Louise Gluck, and others. What there have not been >are gay or lesbian poets. So I stand in support of John Ashbery for >MTV poet laureate! Plus he's a wonderful poet. > >Susan M. Schultz > >http://tinfishpress.com > > > >--------------------------------- >Luggage? GPS? Comic books? >Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 20:21:58 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: R.I.P. Hilly Kristal Comments: To: "UB Poetics discussion group "@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Back in 2002, we had the good fortune to interview CBGB's founder Hilly Kristal for our Rock, Rock, Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Issue. I thought I'd share his words and those on or by the people who were a part of the scene he helped foster. Best, David http://welcometoboogcity.com/boogpdfs/bc04.pdf ---------- Issue 4, March 11-25, 2002 The Rock, Rock, Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Issue -The induction of the Ramones and the Talking Heads by James Wilk -With interviews by music editor James Wilk of Hilly Kristal, owner of CBGB=B9s; Seymour Stein, the man who signed both bands; and Linda Stein, co-manager of the Ramones. -A Centerfold poster of The Ramones playing CBGB=B9s in 1977 -James Wilk reviews Joey Ramone=B9s recently released solo album -Nancy Seewald reviews Richard Hell=B9s book Hot and Cold -Greg Fuchs expounds on the relevance of critic laureate Lester Bangs -The editor on seeing The Ramones in Montreal Poem by Emma Straub Photos by Brian Ach and Danny Fields. -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://welcometoboogcity.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:28:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: MTV laureate In-Reply-To: <525678.24564.qm@web83313.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Camille Paglia actually writes poetry and doesn't just criticize it? On Wed, 29 Aug 2007, amy king wrote: > I wouldn't exactly say there have been "plenty of women poet laureates", though they were appointed more recently than earlier: > > U.S. Poet Laureate Timeline [1937 - 2006 = 37 Men and 8 Women] -- > http://amyking.org/blog/?p=192 > > But agreed: Ashbery is a good choice for MTVu because his poetry is lively and will appeal to the "multi-tasking" and "multi-associating" attention spans of those raised with the internet on their screens and in their hands ... his range of work will certainly appeal to those new emerging literacies. As for Paglia, I think she'd be a short-lived choice as her poetry wouldn't have the reach among the teen and twenty somethings that Ashbery's would. > > As for Susan's point about the gaping lack of missing gay and lesbian poets -- a hearty yes! > > Amy > http://amyking.org/blog/ > > > Susan Webster Schultz wrote: There have been plenty of women poet laureates in recent years, among > them Rita Dove, Louise Gluck, and others. What there have not been are gay or lesbian poets. So I stand in support of John Ashbery for MTV poet laureate! Plus he's a wonderful poet. > > Susan M. Schultz > > http://tinfishpress.com > > > > --------------------------------- > Luggage? GPS? Comic books? > Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search. > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 18:16:58 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: MTV laureate In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed That's an amazing quote. Ah, to be read by John Ashbery! Far and above the new smartass answer I'm going to have the next time someone at a poetry slam gets bewildered and asks me who I'm supposed to be writing for, the fanboy thrill I get at speculating "I wonder if Ashbery has ever stumbled across one of my measly publications?!?!" is a fantastic reminder that the point of writing poetry is not publication, money, awards or tenured professorships, nor is it therapy, making political statements, or developing your spirituality. I suppose poetry can be used for all of those things, but i think when it comes down to it the point, for most of us who take the writing seriously, is to be read by intelligent, sympathetic eyes. Personally, I think that's as admirable as goals come. On Wed, 29 Aug 2007, Aryanil Mukherjee wrote: > That's a laudably bold and clear stand for a great poet any language should be > proud of. > I remember, you wrote - "John Ashbery is America's greatest living poet, he > is also greatly misunderstood". > > Whether Ashbery and MTV go together is a mute point, but the "old folks > can also write" verbatim confounded me. Poets aren't soccer players, I > always thought. There are scores of old poets, both men and women, > that I can think of in a large number of languages around the world who > have written/write competent (if not good or new) poetry. Adonis, for example, > at 75+ is an outstanding example - a probable Nobel candidate for 2008. > > Ferlinghetti still writes good poetry (if not inspiring) at 88. So does Snyder. > There are others, don't forget Diane di Prima. > > I'd like to quote Ashbery here on the challenges and virtues of older poets > from a John Tranter (& Jacket Magazine) interview of JA from 1988 - > > "Also I think the fact that the older one gets - for many people, at least - > the more prolific one gets, realising there aren't the oceans of time that seem > to be stretching ahead when one was young. And one learns to use it, and > realise how precious it is." > > I have been working with John Ashbery for about three years now > on a self-funded translation (into Bengali) project which I recently concluded > with an interview (to appear in Kaurab, September 07) , the Bengali version > of which is due to appear in Kabisammelan, a poetry-monthly published > from Kolkata, India. Here is a little sneak preview from that interview - a > response > which I liked a lot...see that as exemplary for younger poets like us - when > asked > about if he still reads his contemporaries, JA reflects - > > "I don't read the work of my friends anymore (smiles)...specially my own work, > which I don't read at all. So I don't have much idea as to what New York School > poetry is like. Basically, of late I like to read the more young contemporary > poets, many of them have been influenced by me and who have then gone on to > write their own and are now influencing me. " > > > > I'll put my hands together for such an "old folk". > > > > Aryanil Mukherjee > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Webster Schultz" > > To: > Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 2:15 PM > Subject: MTV laureate > > >> There have been plenty of women poet laureates in recent years, among them >> Rita Dove, >> Louise Gluck, and others. What there have not been are gay or lesbian >> poets. So I stand >> in support of John Ashbery for MTV poet laureate! Plus he's a wonderful >> poet. >> >> Susan M. Schultz >> >> http://tinfishpress.com >> >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: >> 269.12.12/979 - Release Date: 8/29/2007 8:21 PM >> >> > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 18:04:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: ashbery on MTV?? why not camille paglia or Jim Carroll In-Reply-To: <261893.85744.qm@web52405.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed I think Jim Carroll would be an excellent MTV laureate. Or going the other direction for someone who's more rocker than poet, Patty Smith might be a good choice. Also, to chime in on the carroll book recommendations, anyone who hasn't read forced entries and living at the movies is missing a treat. On Wed, 29 Aug 2007, steve russell wrote: > either Camille or Carroll would work on MTV. Jim Carroll was, and perhaps he still is, a legit rocker. He's probably still younger then anyone in the Stones. His Catholic Boy album was one of the better pieces of vinyl produced in the eighties. He's a very good poet. Check out his "The Book of Nods." & Paglia too. She can entertain, and she's into rock and poetry, although she's not an Ashbery fan. Harold Bloom was her mentor at Yale. Bloom, Mr. Canonized himself, a guy who has always been in Ashbery's corner. Having a mouth as biting as Paglia's would be fun. Why not Carroll and Paglia? > > --------------------------------- > Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. > Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 19:19:37 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Reminder: This Friday! In-Reply-To: <525678.24564.qm@web83313.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit presents -- Guest-Edited Issue QUEST Reading [ http://www.mipoesias.com/EVIESHOCKLEYISSUE ] ~~ GEOFFREY JACQUES ~~ TONYA FOSTER ~~ TARA BETTS ~~ MENDI OBADIKE ~~ Hosted by Evie Shockley, QUEST Editor Friday, August 31^st @ 7:00 P.M. ____ GEOFFREY JACQUES is a poet and critic who writes about literature, the visual arts, and culture. His latest book of poems is Just For a Thrill (Wayne State University Press, 2005). His book of criticism, A Change in the Weather: Modernist Imagination, African American Imaginary, is forthcoming from the University of Massachusetts Press. His previous poetry collections include Hunger and Other Poems (1993) and Suspended Knowledge (1998). Jacques has taught at several colleges, including Lehman College of the City University of New York (CUNY) the University of Massachusetts Boston, Hunter College, CUNY, the New York School of Industrial and Labor Relations at Cornell University, and at Parsons School of Design. TONYA FOSTER is the author of Swarm of Bees in High Court(Belladonna, 2001), WaterTables (forthcoming, Portable Press @ YoYo Labs), co-editor fiction, and reviews published in various journals and magazines.\u003cbr /\>Recipient of fellowships from the Ford Foundation, the Woodrow Wilson\u003cbr /\>Foundation, and the City University of New York. She has organized\u003cbr /\>reading series and cultural events throughout New York City, and taught\u003cbr /\>creative writing and literature courses at CCNY\'s Bridge to Medicine\u003cbr /\>Program and at Cooper Union.\u003cbr /\>\u003cbr /\>\u003cbr /\>TARA BETTS is a graduate of the New England College MFA Program and Cave\u003cbr /\>Canem. Her work appears in several anthologies and journals, including\u003cbr /\>Gathering Ground, Obsidian III and Essence. In addition to performing\u003cbr /\>and reading her work across the country, she is a lecturer at Rutgers\u003cbr /\>University in New Brunswick, NJ. She recently completed her full-length\u003cbr /\>manuscript Infinite Arithmetic.\u003cbr /\>\u003cbr /\>\u003cbr /\>MENDI OBADIKE is the author Armor and Flesh and the librettist of the\u003cbr /\>The Sour Thunder. She works with composer / conceptual artist Keith\u003cbr /\>Obadike. Together they have received the Rockefeller Media Arts\u003cbr /\>Fellowship, a commission from the Whitney Museum, and one from\u003cbr /\>Northwestern University to create a new work, Big House/Disclosure, an\u003cbr /\>intermedia suite featuring a 200-hour long house song. Mendi teaches at\u003cbr /\>Princeton and lives in the New York area.\u003cbr /\>\u003cbr /\>~~~~~~~~\u003cbr /\>\u003cbr /\>\u003cbr /\>STAIN BAR\u003cbr /\>766 Grand Street Brooklyn , NY 11211\u003cbr /\>(L train to Grand Street Stop, walk 1 block west)\u003cbr /\>718/387-7840\u003cbr /\>\u003cbr /\>\u003ca onclick\u003d\"return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)\" href\u003d\"http://www.stainbar.com/\" target\u003d_blank\>http://www.stainbar.com/\u003c/a\>\u003cbr /\>\u003cbr /\>\u003cbr /\>\u003cbr /\>~~~~~~~~\u003cbr /\>\u003cbr /\>Read QUEST here ----> \u003ca onclick\u003d\"return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)\" href\u003d\"http://www.mipoesias.com/EVIESHOCKLEYISSUE/\" target\u003d_blank\>http://www.mipoesias.com\u003cwbr /\>/EVIESHOCKLEYISSUE/\u003c/a\>\u003cbr /\>\u003cbr /\>Hope you\'ll stop by!\u003cbr /\>\u003cbr /\>Amy King\u003cbr /\>\u003cbr /\>Editor\u003cbr /\>\u003cbr /\>\u003ca onclick\u003d\"return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)\" href\u003d\"http://www.mipoesias.com\" target\u003d_blank\>",1] ); //-->of Third Mind: Teaching Writing through Visual Art. Poetry, essays, fiction, and reviews published in various journals and magazines. Recipient of fellowships from the Ford Foundation, the Woodrow Wilson Foundation, and the City University of New York. She has organized reading series and cultural events throughout New York City, and taught creative writing and literature courses at CCNY's Bridge to Medicine Program and at Cooper Union. TARA BETTS is a graduate of the New England College MFA Program and Cave Canem. Her work appears in several anthologies and journals, including Gathering Ground, Obsidian III and Essence. In addition to performing and reading her work across the country, she is a lecturer at Rutgers University in New Brunswick, NJ. She recently completed her full-length manuscript Infinite Arithmetic. MENDI OBADIKE is the author Armor and Flesh and the librettist of the The Sour Thunder. She works with composer / conceptual artist Keith Obadike. Together they have received the Rockefeller Media Arts Fellowship, a commission from the Whitney Museum, and one from Northwestern University to create a new work, Big House/Disclosure, an intermedia suite featuring a 200-hour long house song. Mendi teaches at Princeton and lives in the New York area. ~~~~~~~~ STAIN BAR 766 Grand Street Brooklyn , NY 11211 (L train to Grand Street Stop, walk 1 block west) 718/387-7840 http://www.stainbar.com/ ~~~~~~~~ Read QUEST here ----> http://www.mipoesias.com/EVIESHOCKLEYISSUE/ Hope you'll stop by! Amy King Editor <\u003ca onclick\u003d\"return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)\" href\u003d\"http://www.mipoesias.com/\" target\u003d_blank\>http://www.mipoesias.com/\u003c/a\>>\u003cbr /\>\u003cbr /\>\u003cbr /\>\u003cbr /\>\u003cbr /\>\u003cbr /\>**please forward**\u003cbr /\>\u003cbr /\>**apologies for cross-posting**\u003cbr /\>\u003cbr /\>\u003cbr /\>--\u003cbr /\>Evie Shockley\u003cbr /\>Assistant Professor\u003cbr /\>Department of English\u003cbr /\>Rutgers University\u003cbr /\>Murray Hall 047, CAC\u003cbr /\>510 George Street\u003cbr /\>New Brunswick, NJ 08901\u003cbr /\>\u003cbr /\>Email: \u003ca onclick\u003d\"return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)\" href\u003d\"mailto:evies@rci.rutgers.edu\"\>evies@rci.rutgers.edu\u003c/a\>\u003cbr /\>\u003cbr /\>\u003cbr /\>--~--~---------~--~----~------\u003cwbr /\>------~-------~--~----~\u003cbr /\>Posts and emails to the Pussipo list are confidential and intended\u003cbr /\>solely for list members and moderators. All Pussipo posts, emails,\u003cbr /\>pages, and files contain privileged and confidential information,\u003cbr /\>which may not be forwarded, quoted, summarized, or redestributed\u003cbr /\>in any manner off-list, without written permission of the author(s).\u003cbr /\>If you are not the intended recipient of this transmission, please do\u003cbr /\>not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it.\u003cbr /\>\u003cbr /\>Because privacy is essential to the nature of the Pussipo experiment,\u003cbr /\>leaky members will be unsubscribed & nonmembers will be spammed\u003cbr /\>with Peaches video clips. Pretty please with pussi on top.\u003cbr /\>\u003cbr /\>+++\u003cbr /\>\u003cbr /\>To post to this group, send email to \u003ca onclick\u003d\"return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)\" href\u003d\"mailto:pussipo@googlegroups.com\"\>pussipo@googlegroups.com\u003c/a\>\u003cbr /\>To unsubscribe from this group, send email to \u003ca onclick\u003d\"return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)\" href\u003d\"mailto:pussipo-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com\"\>pussipo-unsubscribe@googlegrou\u003cwbr /\>ps.com\u003c/a\>\u003cbr /\>For more options, visit this group at \u003ca onclick\u003d\"return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)\" href\u003d\"http://groups-beta.google.com/group/pussipo\" target\u003d_blank\>http://groups-beta.google.com\u003cwbr /\>/group/pussipo\u003c/a\>\u003cbr /\>-~----------~----~----~----~--\u003cwbr /\>----~----~------~--~---\u003cbr /\>\u003cbr /\>\u003c/div\>",0] ); //-->http://www.mipoesias.com **please forward** **apologies for cross-posting** --------------------------------- Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 15:29:50 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabrielle Welford Subject: Re: big penis rock hard balls joy ride history of the world In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT i've thought this was so for some time... when bush started bombing weddings in afghanistan and i was crying in front of my students.... small penis problems... thanks alan. gabe No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.412 / Virus Database: 268.18.4/705 - Release Date: 2/27/2007 On Tue, 28 Aug 2007, Alan Sondheim wrote: > big penis rock hard balls joy ride history of the world > > teenage boys drive big penises and wear big penis ornaments and we're all > pushing our tiny penises around the playing field or looking for a rhyme > to hid our tiny penises while we arm ourselves with big penis guns and > missiles all pointy and the like to kill big and little penises anywhere > we can, we want to be the only penises in sight and we want our tiny > penises hidden but our big penis houses and big giant penis top-fuel > dragsters in sight so we can raise big-penis fear while we stain books and > canvas with big penis smearings while our tiny penises throb and shake, > teenage boys send big penis smearings across networks and wires smearing > tags blowing bits and bytes while big penises announce they are hot and > ready and there and their tiny penises shake with joy and happiness and > our big penis arms push tiny penis boys into dirt and girls and big penis > legs throw bombs into books made from bombs and we big-penis love > everything that thumps and throws giant balls into girl ball party groups, > makes big penis sound jump the curb, when we drive we say Our big penis > has arrived, Yes, Our big penis is here, we write big penis books, we > point big penises, big giant penises, enormous penises, things disappear > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 22:25:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aryanil Mukherjee Subject: Re: MTV laureate In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Your's a great comment too. Agreed and Encore. That's precisely what thrilled me too. Also, we are not getting younger, so it was wonderful to hear of such a promising recipe one could fall back on during some of those moribund phases that are soon to come along. Ashbery talked about young film-directors too, who had been influenced by him, and now he is trying to reverse the admiration trying to come full circle. An ideal laureate for ANY-TV. Aryanil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Quackenbush" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 9:16 PM Subject: Re: MTV laureate > That's an amazing quote. Ah, to be read by John Ashbery! Far and above the > new smartass answer I'm going to have the next time someone at a poetry > slam gets bewildered and asks me who I'm supposed to be writing for, the > fanboy thrill I get at speculating "I wonder if Ashbery has ever stumbled > across one of my measly publications?!?!" is a fantastic reminder that the > point of writing poetry is not publication, money, awards or tenured > professorships, nor is it therapy, making political statements, or > developing your spirituality. I suppose poetry can be used for all of > those things, but i think when it comes down to it the point, for most of > us who take the writing seriously, is to be read by intelligent, > sympathetic eyes. Personally, I think that's as admirable as goals come. > > > On Wed, 29 Aug 2007, Aryanil Mukherjee wrote: > >> That's a laudably bold and clear stand for a great poet any language >> should be proud of. >> I remember, you wrote - "John Ashbery is America's greatest living poet, >> he >> is also greatly misunderstood". >> >> Whether Ashbery and MTV go together is a mute point, but the "old folks >> can also write" verbatim confounded me. Poets aren't soccer players, I >> always thought. There are scores of old poets, both men and women, >> that I can think of in a large number of languages around the world who >> have written/write competent (if not good or new) poetry. Adonis, for >> example, >> at 75+ is an outstanding example - a probable Nobel candidate for 2008. >> >> Ferlinghetti still writes good poetry (if not inspiring) at 88. So does >> Snyder. >> There are others, don't forget Diane di Prima. >> >> I'd like to quote Ashbery here on the challenges and virtues of older >> poets >> from a John Tranter (& Jacket Magazine) interview of JA from 1988 - >> >> "Also I think the fact that the older one gets - for many people, at >> least - the more prolific one gets, realising there aren't the oceans of >> time that seem to be stretching ahead when one was young. And one learns >> to use it, and realise how precious it is." >> >> I have been working with John Ashbery for about three years now >> on a self-funded translation (into Bengali) project which I recently >> concluded >> with an interview (to appear in Kaurab, September 07) , the Bengali >> version >> of which is due to appear in Kabisammelan, a poetry-monthly published >> from Kolkata, India. Here is a little sneak preview from that interview - >> a response >> which I liked a lot...see that as exemplary for younger poets like us - >> when asked >> about if he still reads his contemporaries, JA reflects - >> >> "I don't read the work of my friends anymore (smiles)...specially my own >> work, which I don't read at all. So I don't have much idea as to what New >> York School poetry is like. Basically, of late I like to read the more >> young contemporary poets, many of them have been influenced by me and who >> have then gone on to write their own and are now influencing me. " >> >> >> >> I'll put my hands together for such an "old folk". >> >> >> >> Aryanil Mukherjee >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Webster Schultz" >> >> To: >> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 2:15 PM >> Subject: MTV laureate >> >> >>> There have been plenty of women poet laureates in recent years, among >>> them >>> Rita Dove, >>> Louise Gluck, and others. What there have not been are gay or lesbian >>> poets. So I stand >>> in support of John Ashbery for MTV poet laureate! Plus he's a wonderful >>> poet. >>> >>> Susan M. Schultz >>> >>> http://tinfishpress.com >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: >>> 269.12.12/979 - Release Date: 8/29/2007 8:21 PM >>> >>> >> > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: > 269.12.12/979 - Release Date: 8/29/2007 8:21 PM > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 20:20:29 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Amish Trivedi Subject: America's Next Top Poet/Top Poet and Intro MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit All, I'm seriously waiting for there to be a Bravo program with the above title coming out soon. Challenges could include writing poems FOR events/occassions/people, making chapbooks of poems, or selecting poems out of a stack for a collection. Maybe one challenge could be dealing with rejection letters! At first I thought this was a terrible idea, and then it occurred to me that some of the shows on Bravo now deal with industries the "average American" (who has no maps, I learned this week) has really no clue about. These shows don't really give insight into these industries (do people really have to make bar food when interviewing for jobs as chefs?) and yet people watch them with great eagerness. I think it can totally be done. Maybe another Ashberry project? Also, I realized I never introduced myself to the list. My name is Amish Trivedi and I live in Iowa City, Iowa with my wife Jennifer. I "maintain" the most self-centered and whiny blog, The Trivedi Chronicles (http://trivedichronic.blogspot.com). I work at the University of Iowa's Main library and use said library to fuel my need for poetry and, well, money to buy poetry. I just thought I'd share. Best, Amish "Christopher Columbus, as everyone knows, is honored by posterity because he was the last to discover America." -James Joyce ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 07:57:41 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: old folks can write too In-Reply-To: <20070827124032.APB46186@mtsu125.mtsu.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On Aug 27, 2007, at 10:40 AM, Tom Bell wrote: > I am doing a course for old folks liie me at a local senior center and > looking for a text book. Ideas? > > tom bell As old as John Ashbery? > > Geo. Bowering Heavy feet. Light heart. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 16:54:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Ashbery on MTV?? Comments: To: Kimberley Rogers In-Reply-To: <25382968.1188311245947.JavaMail.root@mswamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Could you tell a little about her? Her books, etc? gb On Aug 28, 2007, at 7:27 AM, Kimberley Rogers wrote: > Is it me or are we way overdue for women to be considered for all > these recently filled Poet Laureate decisions? (Not that I think the > position is indicative of a poet's importance) Naomi Shihab Nye is an > excellent candidate for the voice of America and the voice of the MTV > generation right now. I revolt--and methinks there must be a poem > waitng to get out in me somewhere on this subject--as always. > > -----Original Message----- >> From: John Tranter >> Sent: Aug 27, 2007 6:11 PM >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: Ashbery on MTV?? >> >> Hi, all: >> >> New York Times >> August 27, 2007 >> An 80-Year-Old Poet for the MTV Generation >> By MELENA RYZIK >> >> MtvU, the subsidiary of MTV Networks that is broadcast only on >> college campuses, will announce today that it has selected its first >> poet laureate. No, he doesn?t rap. And it?s not Bob Dylan, or even >> Justin Timberlake. >> >> It is John Ashbery, the prolific 80-year-old poet and frequent award >> winner known for his dense, postmodern style and playful language. >> One of the most celebrated living poets, Mr. Ashbery has won >> MacArthur Foundation and Guggenheim fellowships and was awarded a >> Pulitzer Prize in 1976 for his collection ?Self-Portrait in a Convex >> Mirror.? >> >> ... more here: >> >> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/27/books/27laur.html? >> ex=1188878400&en=c4e34a79300ffe48&ei=5070&emc=eta1 >> >> (you may need to repair the break in the URL). >> >> ------------------------------------------ >> John Tranter > > Mr. G. Bowering Literature maker to the stars. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 07:56:40 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: "An 80-Year-Old Poet for the MTV Generation" In-Reply-To: <938866.78169.qm@web86004.mail.ird.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On Aug 27, 2007, at 9:52 AM, Barry Schwabsky wrote: > I agree that his poetry resonates with a lot of contemporary > music...not that its necessarily played on MTV...but for instance I > remember Stephen Malkmus in an interview specifically citing Ashbery > as an inspiration. > > And Stephen Malkmus is . . . . . .? > George Bowering, OBC Did not fall down on Denman Island ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 07:45:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: ever since the 3rd anniversary of our American invasion of Iraq In-Reply-To: <559396.87774.qm@web51809.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On Aug 13, 2007, at 2:08 PM, Mary Kasimor wrote: > And capitalism is supposed to make everything work, with an equal > opportunity for all. It is? I don't know anyone who supposes thus. George Harvey Bowering Fond of many dead people. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 00:12:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: MTV laureate In-Reply-To: <525678.24564.qm@web83313.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit anybody know what WCW & Bishop did as poets laureate? can't imagine it. On 8/29/07 6:23 PM, "amy king" wrote: > I wouldn't exactly say there have been "plenty of women poet laureates", > though they were appointed more recently than earlier: > > U.S. Poet Laureate Timeline [1937 - 2006 = 37 Men and 8 Women] -- > http://amyking.org/blog/?p=192 > > But agreed: Ashbery is a good choice for MTVu because his poetry is lively > and will appeal to the "multi-tasking" and "multi-associating" attention spans > of those raised with the internet on their screens and in their hands ... his > range of work will certainly appeal to those new emerging literacies. As for > Paglia, I think she'd be a short-lived choice as her poetry wouldn't have the > reach among the teen and twenty somethings that Ashbery's would. > > As for Susan's point about the gaping lack of missing gay and lesbian poets -- > a hearty yes! > > Amy > http://amyking.org/blog/ > > > Susan Webster Schultz wrote: There have been plenty of > women poet laureates in recent years, among > them Rita Dove, Louise Gluck, and others. What there have not been are gay or > lesbian poets. So I stand in support of John Ashbery for MTV poet laureate! > Plus he's a wonderful poet. > > Susan M. Schultz > > http://tinfishpress.com > > > > --------------------------------- > Luggage? GPS? Comic books? > Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 22:41:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Subject: Re: "An 80-Year-Old Poet for the MTV Generation" In-Reply-To: <047602783b812d451c89ebc1b7958c92@sfu.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A 41-year old musical colleague.... MTV is 27 years old, so what is the MTV generation anyway? Anyway, Steve's a great guitarist/singer...combined some nice soulful melodies and some "avant" noise aspects for many he, and P Harvey and others, were the essence of that "indie-rock" 90s, in contrast to the more commercial 90s indie rock, after Cobain, went into Pearl Jam/STP/Live/Creed progressively more macho late 90s arena postures. I'm sure Wiki says this better. It was cool working in the studio with him in '98; he's just finishing up a new album.... C On Aug 28, 2007, at 7:56 AM, George Bowering wrote: > On Aug 27, 2007, at 9:52 AM, Barry Schwabsky wrote: > >> I agree that his poetry resonates with a lot of contemporary >> music...not that its necessarily played on MTV...but for instance >> I remember Stephen Malkmus in an interview specifically citing >> Ashbery as an inspiration. >> >> > And Stephen Malkmus is . . . . . .? >> > George Bowering, OBC > Did not fall down on Denman Island ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 06:43:29 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barry Schwabsky Subject: Re: MTV laureate In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit What.....if......he's......even......reading.......this.......list.......now! Jason Quackenbush wrote: That's an amazing quote. Ah, to be read by John Ashbery! Far and above the new smartass answer I'm going to have the next time someone at a poetry slam gets bewildered and asks me who I'm supposed to be writing for, the fanboy thrill I get at speculating "I wonder if Ashbery has ever stumbled across one of my measly publications?!?!" is a fantastic reminder that the point of writing poetry is not publication, money, awards or tenured professorships, nor is it therapy, making political statements, or developing your spirituality. I suppose poetry can be used for all of those things, but i think when it comes down to it the point, for most of us who take the writing seriously, is to be read by intelligent, sympathetic eyes. Personally, I think that's as admirable as goals come. On Wed, 29 Aug 2007, Aryanil Mukherjee wrote: > That's a laudably bold and clear stand for a great poet any language should be > proud of. > I remember, you wrote - "John Ashbery is America's greatest living poet, he > is also greatly misunderstood". > > Whether Ashbery and MTV go together is a mute point, but the "old folks > can also write" verbatim confounded me. Poets aren't soccer players, I > always thought. There are scores of old poets, both men and women, > that I can think of in a large number of languages around the world who > have written/write competent (if not good or new) poetry. Adonis, for example, > at 75+ is an outstanding example - a probable Nobel candidate for 2008. > > Ferlinghetti still writes good poetry (if not inspiring) at 88. So does Snyder. > There are others, don't forget Diane di Prima. > > I'd like to quote Ashbery here on the challenges and virtues of older poets > from a John Tranter (& Jacket Magazine) interview of JA from 1988 - > > "Also I think the fact that the older one gets - for many people, at least - > the more prolific one gets, realising there aren't the oceans of time that seem > to be stretching ahead when one was young. And one learns to use it, and > realise how precious it is." > > I have been working with John Ashbery for about three years now > on a self-funded translation (into Bengali) project which I recently concluded > with an interview (to appear in Kaurab, September 07) , the Bengali version > of which is due to appear in Kabisammelan, a poetry-monthly published > from Kolkata, India. Here is a little sneak preview from that interview - a > response > which I liked a lot...see that as exemplary for younger poets like us - when > asked > about if he still reads his contemporaries, JA reflects - > > "I don't read the work of my friends anymore (smiles)...specially my own work, > which I don't read at all. So I don't have much idea as to what New York School > poetry is like. Basically, of late I like to read the more young contemporary > poets, many of them have been influenced by me and who have then gone on to > write their own and are now influencing me. " > > > > I'll put my hands together for such an "old folk". > > > > Aryanil Mukherjee > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Webster Schultz" > > To: > Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 2:15 PM > Subject: MTV laureate > > >> There have been plenty of women poet laureates in recent years, among them >> Rita Dove, >> Louise Gluck, and others. What there have not been are gay or lesbian >> poets. So I stand >> in support of John Ashbery for MTV poet laureate! Plus he's a wonderful >> poet. >> >> Susan M. Schultz >> >> http://tinfishpress.com >> >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: >> 269.12.12/979 - Release Date: 8/29/2007 8:21 PM >> >> > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 06:42:39 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barry Schwabsky Subject: Re: "An 80-Year-Old Poet for the MTV Generation" In-Reply-To: <047602783b812d451c89ebc1b7958c92@sfu.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Google him! George Bowering wrote: On Aug 27, 2007, at 9:52 AM, Barry Schwabsky wrote: > I agree that his poetry resonates with a lot of contemporary > music...not that its necessarily played on MTV...but for instance I > remember Stephen Malkmus in an interview specifically citing Ashbery > as an inspiration. > > And Stephen Malkmus is . . . . . .? > George Bowering, OBC Did not fall down on Denman Island ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 01:57:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: MTV laureate Comments: To: Ruth Lepson In-Reply-To: C2FBBBD3.C71F%ruthlepson@comcast.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 On Thu, Aug 30, 2007 12:12 AM, Ruth Lepson wrote: > > >anybody know what WCW & Bishop did as poets laureate? can't imagine it. WCW never actually got to serve, despite what you may read in that timeline. There was effective McCarthyite opposition to his appointment -- As this was also the time of his failing health, the effective eventual disguise for what actually happened was that he was unable to serve for health reasons -- I attended a huge reading of former LOC Poetry Consultants (what it was called before it became the Laureateship) that included Bishop -- When I asked her to sign a book, she heard my name, said "Danish, right?" and spelled it correctly -- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We are enslaved by what makes us free -- intolerable paradox at the heart of speech. --Robert Kelly Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 02:51:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: MTV laureate In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed They were "consultants in poetry to the Library of Congress" until 1986, when we ceased to be a democracy. They have almost no duties, though in recent years they've acted more importantly. WCW did nothing--he wasn't allowed to serve because he was a red. Any day now we'll have other honorary appointments--maybe "gentleman of the President's bedchamber" or "royal equerry." I imagine that there's a point after which embarrassment will set in, no matter how good the gig. Maybe not. Mark At 12:12 AM 8/30/2007, you wrote: >anybody know what WCW & Bishop did as poets laureate? can't imagine it. > > >On 8/29/07 6:23 PM, "amy king" wrote: > > > I wouldn't exactly say there have been "plenty of women poet laureates", > > though they were appointed more recently than earlier: > > > > U.S. Poet Laureate Timeline [1937 - 2006 = 37 Men and 8 Women] -- > > http://amyking.org/blog/?p=192 > > > > But agreed: Ashbery is a good choice for MTVu because his poetry is lively > > and will appeal to the "multi-tasking" and "multi-associating" > attention spans > > of those raised with the internet on their screens and in their > hands ... his > > range of work will certainly appeal to those new emerging > literacies. As for > > Paglia, I think she'd be a short-lived choice as her poetry > wouldn't have the > > reach among the teen and twenty somethings that Ashbery's would. > > > > As for Susan's point about the gaping lack of missing gay and > lesbian poets -- > > a hearty yes! > > > > Amy > > http://amyking.org/blog/ > > > > > > Susan Webster Schultz wrote: There have > been plenty of > > women poet laureates in recent years, among > > them Rita Dove, Louise Gluck, and others. What there have not > been are gay or > > lesbian poets. So I stand in support of John Ashbery for MTV > poet laureate! > > Plus he's a wonderful poet. > > > > Susan M. Schultz > > > > http://tinfishpress.com > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Luggage? GPS? Comic books? > > Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 11:29:26 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: blacksox@ATT.NET Subject: September 15 Washington DC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit BE IN DC ON SEPTEMBER 15, 2007! HERE'S WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW: ~ The Plan for the Day - Gathering time and place, maps & housing ~ How to get to DC - By bus, van, car, plane, train and metro ~ THE PLAN FOR SEPT. 15 ~ On Saturday, September 15, tens of thousands of people from across the country will gather at 12 noon at the White House (north side, in and around Lafayette Park) and then march to the Capitol (west side). (The Ellipse on the south side of the White House is closed for maintenance repairs.) Please see below for detailed information. Click below to view and print a map (8.5x11 inch PDF): http://www.pephost.org/site/R?i=eNyyj-qrnDjvFSU0zSCgvg.. The march will go from the White House to the Capitol Building. The front contingent of the march will be Iraq war veterans, family members of soldiers and marines and other veterans. When the march arrives at Congress, the Iraq War Veterans and family members will be the leadership of a mass die-in symbolizing the deaths of an estimated 4,000 U.S. servicemembers. A powerful representation of the death of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis will be the other central component of this dramatic confrontation with Congress at the time that they will be debating spending another $100 billion to sustain the criminal occupation of Iraq. The Die-In is a civil disobedience action and those participating may risk arrest. There will be a permitted rally taking place simultaneously with the Die-In. All those who cannot afford to risk arrest will be able to participate in the permitted rally that will take place on the West Lawn of the Capitol Building. Sign up today: YES, I can join the mass march in Washington DC on September 15. Click this link to sign up: http://www.pephost.org/site/R?i=Y0pYBLzIMeirLmHBbaU0kQ.. YES, I will participate in the mass Die-In/Funeral. Click this link to sign up: http://www.pephost.org/site/R?i=gEdHTzaRGiqqN3p0qTYi9Q.. There will be information packets about logistics and legal Know Your Rights information sent to all those participating. The National Lawyers Guild Mass Defense Committee and the Partnership for Civil Justice will be providing legal support for the demonstration. An email update with details about the September 16-21 Week of Action will be sent out later this week. ~ HOUSING IN DC ~ There are several options for housing if you are coming to Washington DC: 1. There is a Housing Board on which you can request and offer free housing. 2. Large groups (10 or more) can request housing in churches, community centers and other spaces through the ANSWER Coalition. Please call 202-544-3389 x14 to request group housing. 3. Special for students: The George Washington University College Democrats are hosting students for free in dorm rooms on campus which is just blocks from the White House. 4. A list of hotels, motels, hostels and campgrounds is available below. Click here for details on each of these options: http://www.pephost.org/site/R?i=Ea2sGmSYcTvZOI1ELC0G0g.. ~ BUSES, VANS AND CAR CARAVANS TO DC ~ Transportation is being organized from cities all over the country to travel to Washington DC. Click here for details about cities organizing transportation: http://www.pephost.org/site/R?i=hdNT2ikb95EFqgLRvkLBMg.. People will be coming from every state in the East Coast, Midwest and South, and many are coming to DC from the West. If you're organizing people from your area and you're not listed, fill out the online Transportation Form so we can help get the word out: http://www.pephost.org/site/R?i=Abb_R42jLpeyeiBj6oQXkQ.. For those coming by bus: Bus drop off will be near the rally site. Buses will be able to drop off passengers before proceeding to parking, and passengers will be able to walk to the rally site. ~ DRIVING DIRECTIONS ~ For detailed driving directions to Washington DC, click here: http://www.pephost.org/site/R?i=hgIK_lyJ7S7oCIW3ASpigA.. Enter "1600 H St. NW" in Washington (city) DC (state) 20006 (zip) as your "end" location. For those driving personal cars and vans: You can park in the area of the opening rally site, and take the metro back to your car after the rally at the Capitol. ~ Airports, Bus and Train Stations in DC ~ Airports There are three airports in the Washington DC area: Ronald Reagan Washington National (DCA) 703-417-8000, located in Virginia very close to DC http://www.pephost.org/site/R?i=m4eTA-_MUeNfBTooNTlN8Q.. Washington-Dulles International (IAD) 703-572-2700, located in Virginia about 30 min. from DC http://www.pephost.org/site/R?i=LGoLyV-39nXEbkhLDJ-4LA.. Please see the websites of these airports for information about public transportation and directions. Baltimore-Washington Airport (BWI) 800-435-9294, located in Maryland halfway between DC and Baltimore, about 30-40 min. drive from DC http://www.pephost.org/site/R?i=b47MkYWqYgqKpp7STwszhw.. The best way to get from BWI to the rally site is to take the WMATA Express bus that leaves from airport and takes you to the Greenbelt Metro Stop. From there, you will want to go to the Gallery Place - Chinatown station where you can transfer to the red line and then exit at Farragut North. Click here for more information about bus departure times from the airport. http://www.pephost.org/site/R?i=wg1UjbPNTDY1gkIpCh1DeQ.. For plane tickets, try any of these sites: Travelocity.com: http://www.pephost.org/site/R?i=PoFuBTQJHilBeFl08dnhBQ.. Orbitz.com: http://www.pephost.org/site/R?i=nK0dBGL28whqicRazzcAjw.. Hotwire.com: http://www.pephost.org/site/R?i=nVVCrV4-dqxGGDF7FpK6IA.. Priceline.com: http://www.pephost.org/site/R?i=kF8RqOcQK04Fr6cfVHYfgQ.. Lowestfare.com: http://www.pephost.org/site/R?i=yBXFdPmx7iJPpmi4DVdhtw.. Jetblue.com - Select "Washington, DC/Dulles (IAD)", not included in above sites: http://www.pephost.org/site/R?i=7az4-vDiMyfdK7aj3WDCRw.. DC airport codes are DCA, IAD and BWI. Some sites also allow you to enter WAS to cover all three. Bus Station The Greyhound bus station is located at 1005 1st St. NE (at L St.). This is walking distance from Union Station (the train station), which is also the location of a red line metro stop. The phone number is (202) 289-5154 and the website is http://www.pephost.org/site/R?i=4bkk9haUXdCQ6nwZfMnARg.. . There are several low cost buses that travel to Washington DC from New York City, Philadelphia, Boston, Baltimore and other area cities. They drop off at various locations in the DC downtown area, all of which are metro accessible. Washington Deluxe: http://www.pephost.org/site/R?i=fYj0AfBRzJYHEnR9CNDLLg.. New Century Travel: http://www.pephost.org/site/R?i=WQK86e0dfpE8BAIdX28UNQ.. Chinatown Bus: http://www.pephost.org/site/R?i=_oPzbgjrZvGjihgNKMHiDg.. Train Station Amtrak, MTA/MARC, Metrorail and Virginia Rail Express run to Union Station. Union Station is located at 50 Massachusetts Ave. NE. The red line stop "Union Station" is located inside the building. For the Union Station website, which offers directions: http://www.pephost.org/site/R?i=SQLOCIvLyN4abMmTWPVpWw.. AMTRAK 1-800-USA-RAIL http://www.pephost.org/site/R?i=74kK0Eur6LVaPfiuoDfI3g.. MTA/MARC 1-800-325-7245 (does not run on weekends) http://www.pephost.org/site/R?i=2fxF1-mAl5A4TCsdEBCExg.. Metrorail 202-637-7000 http://www.pephost.org/site/R?i=e3Em1SyWQlovUj_gpOy8fQ.. Virginia Rail Express 800-743-3873 http://www.pephost.org/site/R?i=2HhQHfGF-BiOeNlblqA-Iw.. ~ PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION IN DC ~ The closest metro (subway) stations to the rally site at the White House (north side in Lafayette Park) are McPherson Square (blue/orange lines), Farragut West (blue/orange lines), Farragut North (red line); Metro Center (blue/orange/red lines) is also close. Exact locations of exits from metro stations: - McPherson Square (blue/orange lines): *SE corner Vermont Ave. & I St. NW, SW corner 14th & I Sts. NW - Farragut West (blue/orange lines): *SE corner 17th & I Sts. NW, NW corner 18th & I Sts. NW - Farragut North (red line): *NE corner Conn. Ave. & K St. NW, SW corner Conn. & L St. NW, NE corner Conn. & L St. NW - Metro Center (blue/orange/red lines): *SE corner 13th and G Sts. NW, NE corner 12th and G Sts. NW, SE corner 11th and G Sts. NW, SW corner 12th and F Sts. NW * = best exit to use For an online DC metro (subway) map, click on one of the options below: Interactive online metro map (click on station to view details): http://www.pephost.org/site/R?i=IgnMw_gwWZNL-0ASm0m6ow.. Text list of stations: http://www.pephost.org/site/R?i=TmO1yAWUs1A8gFjgZSSjgA.. (include exact location of exits) Below are PDFs of an 8.5x11 map of the DC metro (subway) system: multi-color PDF http://www.pephost.org/site/R?i=XYFdo9DSo_e-KbEJ9kmq5g.. black & white PDF http://www.pephost.org/site/R?i=5WFEj5x_v5MUCDzVp8Cm_Q.. On the weekends, the metro is open from 7:00 am until 3:00 am. A metro ride will cost $1.35 minimum per rider each way (if you are traveling from farther away, such as from Maryland or Virginia, it will be more). Fare cards must be purchased from machines (not from a person) located in the metro stations. The maximum change the machines give is $4.95, so please have small bills if you're paying with cash. You can also pay with a debit or credit card (minimum charge $1.35, maximum charge $3.90). After the rally After the rally at the Capitol, if you want to leave by metro, you can walk to Union Station on the red line or Capitol South on the blue / orange line. Buses in DC DC/MD/VA bus maps are available online. Please make sure to check the timetables for any bus you may take, since some do not run on the weekends. Click on the links below for maps, and use the zoom key (looks like a magnifying glass) for a clear view of your destination and route: DC bus map http://www.pephost.org/site/R?i=mC-hZLmYo3dyfdZg8550ZA.. Maryland bus map http://www.pephost.org/site/R?i=bccc20-v0T3l1UoS1SXS_g.. Virginia bus map http://www.pephost.org/site/R?i=Qd9hv_aSZLa3jvhnDKBMAA.. Bus timetables are available: DC http://www.pephost.org/site/R?i=k01kPSTvklA8ONF20o0oLA.. Maryland http://www.pephost.org/site/R?i=8uAFlDEcg0pOE2UvecxgkQ.. Virginia http://www.pephost.org/site/R?i=zwWofDKXtfxHJhSP8HFLbw.. ~ PLEASE DONATE TODAY - WE CAN'T DO IT WITHOUT YOUR HELP ~ The ANSWER Coalition has provided thousands of dollars as a scholarship to help Iraq veterans and other veterans get on the bus to join the September 15 protest. Thousands of Iraq war veterans want to join the protest. The biggest obstacle is lack of money. If you cannot come to Washington DC yourself but would like to provide a transportation subsidy for others, you can do so by clicking this link to make a generous donation: http://www.pephost.org/site/R?i=-hHITOQkgiKlYKEylfPvAg.. ~ GET INVOLVED ~ 100 transportation centers - Get on the bus! Click here for more information: http://www.pephost.org/site/R?i=QEy1xG7JGM_qfcYehhBdrA.. To organize transportation, click here: http://www.pephost.org/site/R?i=3n8sriEIfZRRzKtmaQAs_g.. To become a volunteer, click here: http://www.pephost.org/site/R?i=tFbZNDI8hy_OEf9j8-LcqA.. To endorse the march, click here:. http://www.pephost.org/site/R?i=4dRr4twLrT7hCAlvIof4xw.. To download Sept. 15 literature, click here: http://www.pephost.org/site/R?i=ptL-AcO6iIC0iVbXffo6xw.. To order Sept. 15 literature, click here: http://www.pephost.org/site/R?i=jl8ed4sy1uxqwQAxpStUfg.. BE SURE TO CHECK OUT www.Sept15.org http://www.pephost.org/site/R?i=fPKYxvJzqzZJ8EZ8lyin8w.. ********************** A.N.S.W.E.R. Coalition www.answercoalition.org info@internationalanswer.org National Office in Washington DC: 202-544-3389 New York City: 212-694-8720 Los Angeles: 323-464-1636 San Francisco: 415-821-6545 Chicago: 773-463-0311 If this message was forwared to you and you'd like to receive future ANSWER updates, click here: http://www.pephost.org/site/R?i=w35PLEBUrRnBiwYWCw6B9g.. Click here to unsubscribe from the ANSWER e-mail list. http://www.pephost.org/site/CO?i=ckAGL-1k9bERhesudE_w4W68cuqxNplC&cid=1161 _________________ "I go only where my own steps will take me." José Régio, in "Black Chant" ("Cântico Negro") ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 05:36:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Kasimor Subject: Re: ever since the 3rd anniversary of our American invasion of Iraq In-Reply-To: <0303777964eaee44d9bee202d02aae7a@sfu.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I agree that it doesn't. That was meant as sarcasm; however, many people in the US still have a childlike faith in capitalism and "the system." George Bowering wrote: On Aug 13, 2007, at 2:08 PM, Mary Kasimor wrote: > And capitalism is supposed to make everything work, with an equal > opportunity for all. It is? I don't know anyone who supposes thus. George Harvey Bowering Fond of many dead people. --------------------------------- Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 10:09:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: EJOYCE Subject: Mei-Mei BerssenBrugge contact information MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please back-channel me. Lisa Joyce ejoyce@edinboro.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 11:00:12 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aryanil Mukherjee Subject: Re: MTV laureate In-Reply-To: <357552.80715.qm@web86007.mail.ird.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit He just did.....I was told. Aryanil -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Barry Schwabsky Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 1:43 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: MTV laureate What.....if......he's......even......reading.......this.......list.......now ! Jason Quackenbush wrote: That's an amazing quote. Ah, to be read by John Ashbery! Far and above the new smartass answer I'm going to have the next time someone at a poetry slam gets bewildered and asks me who I'm supposed to be writing for, the fanboy thrill I get at speculating "I wonder if Ashbery has ever stumbled across one of my measly publications?!?!" is a fantastic reminder that the point of writing poetry is not publication, money, awards or tenured professorships, nor is it therapy, making political statements, or developing your spirituality. I suppose poetry can be used for all of those things, but i think when it comes down to it the point, for most of us who take the writing seriously, is to be read by intelligent, sympathetic eyes. Personally, I think that's as admirable as goals come. On Wed, 29 Aug 2007, Aryanil Mukherjee wrote: > That's a laudably bold and clear stand for a great poet any language should be > proud of. > I remember, you wrote - "John Ashbery is America's greatest living poet, he > is also greatly misunderstood". > > Whether Ashbery and MTV go together is a mute point, but the "old folks > can also write" verbatim confounded me. Poets aren't soccer players, I > always thought. There are scores of old poets, both men and women, > that I can think of in a large number of languages around the world who > have written/write competent (if not good or new) poetry. Adonis, for example, > at 75+ is an outstanding example - a probable Nobel candidate for 2008. > > Ferlinghetti still writes good poetry (if not inspiring) at 88. So does Snyder. > There are others, don't forget Diane di Prima. > > I'd like to quote Ashbery here on the challenges and virtues of older poets > from a John Tranter (& Jacket Magazine) interview of JA from 1988 - > > "Also I think the fact that the older one gets - for many people, at least - > the more prolific one gets, realising there aren't the oceans of time that seem > to be stretching ahead when one was young. And one learns to use it, and > realise how precious it is." > > I have been working with John Ashbery for about three years now > on a self-funded translation (into Bengali) project which I recently concluded > with an interview (to appear in Kaurab, September 07) , the Bengali version > of which is due to appear in Kabisammelan, a poetry-monthly published > from Kolkata, India. Here is a little sneak preview from that interview - a > response > which I liked a lot...see that as exemplary for younger poets like us - when > asked > about if he still reads his contemporaries, JA reflects - > > "I don't read the work of my friends anymore (smiles)...specially my own work, > which I don't read at all. So I don't have much idea as to what New York School > poetry is like. Basically, of late I like to read the more young contemporary > poets, many of them have been influenced by me and who have then gone on to > write their own and are now influencing me. " > > > > I'll put my hands together for such an "old folk". > > > > Aryanil Mukherjee > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Webster Schultz" > > To: > Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 2:15 PM > Subject: MTV laureate > > >> There have been plenty of women poet laureates in recent years, among them >> Rita Dove, >> Louise Gluck, and others. What there have not been are gay or lesbian >> poets. So I stand >> in support of John Ashbery for MTV poet laureate! Plus he's a wonderful >> poet. >> >> Susan M. Schultz >> >> http://tinfishpress.com >> >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: >> 269.12.12/979 - Release Date: 8/29/2007 8:21 PM >> >> > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 11:20:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: MTV laureate Comments: To: Barry Schwabsky In-Reply-To: 357552.80715.qm@web86007.mail.ird.yahoo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 On Thu, Aug 30, 2007 01:43 AM, Barry Schwabsky wrote: > > >What.....if......he's......even......reading.......this.......list.......now! Jason Quackenbush wrote: That's an amazing quote. Ah, to be read by John Ashbery! Speaking of the Library of Congress -- Many years ago, Rod Smith walked up to John Ashbery after his reading at the LOC and handed him a copy of an early issue of AERIAL -- To my great surprise, this was followed by my only to date appearance in BEST AMERICAN POEMS, a direct result of Ashbery's reading Smith's journal -- Ashbery, like Williams, has been a life-long reader and supporter of small presses -- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We are enslaved by what makes us free -- intolerable paradox at the heart of speech. --Robert Kelly Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 08:24:55 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve russell Subject: Re: ashbery on MTV?? why not camille paglia or Jim Carroll In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit also, there's Jeffery McDaniel, author of The Splinter Factory. He's a fine poet, and I think he's still in his thirties. Another slammer, Patricia Smith. If I'm not mistaken, she's also a woman. I'd like to see Billy Collins or Robert Pinsky get their dignity ruffled up in a Jerry Springer exchange, find the rowdiest, most anti-authoritarian kids on the block and let them have a go at an ex poet L. Go at them HENRY ROLLINS style... Jason Quackenbush wrote: I think Jim Carroll would be an excellent MTV laureate. Or going the other direction for someone who's more rocker than poet, Patty Smith might be a good choice. Also, to chime in on the carroll book recommendations, anyone who hasn't read forced entries and living at the movies is missing a treat. On Wed, 29 Aug 2007, steve russell wrote: > either Camille or Carroll would work on MTV. Jim Carroll was, and perhaps he still is, a legit rocker. He's probably still younger then anyone in the Stones. His Catholic Boy album was one of the better pieces of vinyl produced in the eighties. He's a very good poet. Check out his "The Book of Nods." & Paglia too. She can entertain, and she's into rock and poetry, although she's not an Ashbery fan. Harold Bloom was her mentor at Yale. Bloom, Mr. Canonized himself, a guy who has always been in Ashbery's corner. Having a mouth as biting as Paglia's would be fun. Why not Carroll and Paglia? > > --------------------------------- > Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. > Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. > --------------------------------- Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 12:33:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: MTV laureate In-Reply-To: <1188487239l.1474640l.0l@psu.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit one of my students at the NEng Conservatory has been taken over by poetry & Ashbery is his fave--maybe he should send him a poem, which he has hesitated to do. On 8/30/07 11:20 AM, "ALDON L NIELSEN" wrote: > > > On Thu, Aug 30, 2007 01:43 AM, Barry Schwabsky > wrote: > >> >> >> What.....if......he's......even......reading.......this.......list.......now! > Jason Quackenbush wrote: That's an amazing quote. Ah, to be > read > by John Ashbery! > > > > > > > > Speaking of the Library of Congress -- Many years ago, Rod Smith walked up to > John Ashbery after his reading at the LOC and handed him a copy of an early > issue of AERIAL -- To my great surprise, this was followed by my only to date > appearance in BEST AMERICAN POEMS, a direct result of Ashbery's reading > Smith's > journal -- Ashbery, like Williams, has been a life-long reader and supporter > of > small presses -- > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > We are enslaved by > what makes us free -- intolerable > paradox at the heart of speech. > --Robert Kelly > > Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > > Aldon L. Nielsen > Kelly Professor of American Literature > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 10:41:07 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Re: MTV laureate: Amiri Baraka (though he'd probably not be allowed) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I think Amiri Baraka would be a great Laureate. He's by far one of the best reader/performers i've ever seen/heard/met. Not only vocally--his accompanying himself with drumming--on a lectern last time i saw him, this Spring, when he electrified a huge young urban crowd at University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee. He also gave the only talk i ever heard that made you really want to go to school, get educated and keep on educating yourself the rest of your life. Baraka's a walking encyclopedia of Black Music and Culture and one of the greatest writers ever on the subject as well as bringing it into and keeping it real in his writing and life. The recordings he's made since the 1960's are among the best you'll ever hear by an American poet. Sonny's Time Now lp is one of my favorite recordings in any genre of all time--with "Leroi Jones", Don Cherry, Sonny Murray et al. Don Cherry turned me on to The System of Dante's Hell which remains as Pound wd say "news that stays News" to this day. I imagine he wouldn't be allowed to be the laureate, an immense loss. He's one the great cultural figures of the last almost half century now, what the Japanese call "a National Treasure". (I know he's controversial--but remember when and how much Cassius Clay/Muhammad Ali was? Before everybody decided they loved him--) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 11:29:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve russell Subject: Re: MTV laureate: Amiri Baraka (though he'd probably not be allowed) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Baraka before it's too late. He is, let's face it, old. During the filming of Prairie Home Companion, Paul Anderson filled in for Altman just in case. I wish we could have a more controversial Laureate, lose the tweed factor. David Chirot wrote: I think Amiri Baraka would be a great Laureate. He's by far one of the best reader/performers i've ever seen/heard/met. Not only vocally--his accompanying himself with drumming--on a lectern last time i saw him, this Spring, when he electrified a huge young urban crowd at University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee. He also gave the only talk i ever heard that made you really want to go to school, get educated and keep on educating yourself the rest of your life. Baraka's a walking encyclopedia of Black Music and Culture and one of the greatest writers ever on the subject as well as bringing it into and keeping it real in his writing and life. The recordings he's made since the 1960's are among the best you'll ever hear by an American poet. Sonny's Time Now lp is one of my favorite recordings in any genre of all time--with "Leroi Jones", Don Cherry, Sonny Murray et al. Don Cherry turned me on to The System of Dante's Hell which remains as Pound wd say "news that stays News" to this day. I imagine he wouldn't be allowed to be the laureate, an immense loss. He's one the great cultural figures of the last almost half century now, what the Japanese call "a National Treasure". (I know he's controversial--but remember when and how much Cassius Clay/Muhammad Ali was? Before everybody decided they loved him--) --------------------------------- Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:32:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: the five friends and five enemies of writing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit aside from you and me, they are listed here: __________________________________ http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com ---------------------------------- Gabriel, enemy of writing ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 11:44:41 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: Ashbery on MTV?? In-Reply-To: <3867625abd4a9fa1ea1870ed59a7e95a@sfu.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I agree. Naomi Shihab Nye would be a great candidate among current women poets. It's not a competition, fortunately or unfortunately. I don't think nominations by us or almost anybody matter much. Still, her poetry is not only outstanding, it's also incredibly accessible for a current poet of major importance and interest. Thanks for bringing her up. I don't think I've ever seen her name mentioned on this listserv during the three years I've been on this service. Regards, Tom Savage George Bowering wrote: Could you tell a little about her? Her books, etc? gb On Aug 28, 2007, at 7:27 AM, Kimberley Rogers wrote: > Is it me or are we way overdue for women to be considered for all > these recently filled Poet Laureate decisions? (Not that I think the > position is indicative of a poet's importance) Naomi Shihab Nye is an > excellent candidate for the voice of America and the voice of the MTV > generation right now. I revolt--and methinks there must be a poem > waitng to get out in me somewhere on this subject--as always. > > -----Original Message----- >> From: John Tranter >> Sent: Aug 27, 2007 6:11 PM >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: Ashbery on MTV?? >> >> Hi, all: >> >> New York Times >> August 27, 2007 >> An 80-Year-Old Poet for the MTV Generation >> By MELENA RYZIK >> >> MtvU, the subsidiary of MTV Networks that is broadcast only on >> college campuses, will announce today that it has selected its first >> poet laureate. No, he doesn?t rap. And it?s not Bob Dylan, or even >> Justin Timberlake. >> >> It is John Ashbery, the prolific 80-year-old poet and frequent award >> winner known for his dense, postmodern style and playful language. >> One of the most celebrated living poets, Mr. Ashbery has won >> MacArthur Foundation and Guggenheim fellowships and was awarded a >> Pulitzer Prize in 1976 for his collection ?Self-Portrait in a Convex >> Mirror.? >> >> ... more here: >> >> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/27/books/27laur.html? >> ex=1188878400&en=c4e34a79300ffe48&ei=5070&emc=eta1 >> >> (you may need to repair the break in the URL). >> >> ------------------------------------------ >> John Tranter > > Mr. G. Bowering Literature maker to the stars. --------------------------------- Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 11:46:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jennifer Karmin Subject: SUBMISSIONS: Hyperrhiz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hyperrhiz: New Media Cultures. Issue 04: e-Lit Hyperrhiz, the peer-reviewed new media satellite site of Rhizomes: Cultural Studies in Emerging Knowledge, is seeking web-based electronic literature/poetry/art contributions for its fourth issue. We especially encourage works of or responding to "e-lit" for this special topic issue. Hyperrhiz can be viewed at http://www.hyperrhiz.net. All contributions will be fully refereed by an editorial board. Accepted contributions will be prepared for web presentation in conjunction with the technical editors. Timeline and Guidelines for Submission: Abstracts or demo materials can be submitted via URL or burned to CD, and should be sent to the editors by 1st October, 2007. Preference will be given to projects which are substantially or fully completed. Full accepted contributions should be completed and sent to the editors by 15th November, 2007. Submission to Hyperrhiz should be in a format that is user-friendly and accessible. All submissions, in addition to undergoing blind review, will be assessed for their usability, accessibility and adherence to technical conventions. Projects can be submitted via URL or burned to CD. URL submissions may be sent to submissions@hyperrhiz.net CD submissions may be sent to: Helen J Burgess, Department of English University of Maryland Baltimore County 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21210 ____________________________________________________________________________________ Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 11:58:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: ABC News: In Rare Move, Texas Gov. Commutes Inmate's Death Sentence MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=3541391&page=1 --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 12:33:06 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Diane DiPrima Subject: Re: the five friends and five enemies of writing In-Reply-To: <46D70D3B.809@ilstu.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thanks for these! Diane di Prima > From: Gabriel Gudding > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:32:27 -0500 > To: > Subject: the five friends and five enemies of writing > > aside from you and me, they are listed here: > __________________________________ > http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com > ---------------------------------- > Gabriel, enemy of writing ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 12:33:32 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Matt Henriksen Subject: Friday! Frank Sherlock & David Shapiro in NYC! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Burning Chair Readings invite you to never be sad w/= =0A=0AThe Burning Chair Readings=0A=0Ainvite you to never be sad=0A=0A=0Aw/= =0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0AFrank Sherlock & David Shapiro =0A=0A =0A=0A=0A(Philly S= tyle meets New York School)=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0Acelebrating the recent releas= e of David Shapiro=92s New=0Aand Selected Poems (1965-2006)=0A=0A=0A& the d= ebut of Frank Sherlock=92s Wounds in an=0AImaginary Nature Show=0A=0A=0A = =0A=0A=0AFriday, August 31st, 8PM=0A=0AJimmy=92s No.43 Stage=0A=0A=0A43 Eas= t 7th Street=0A=0A=0ABetween 2nd& 3rd=0A=0A=0ANew York City=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A= =0A($5 donation suggested but not required)=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0ADavid Shapiro= =92s New and Selected Poems=0A(1965-2006) emerged from Overlook Press in 20= 07. In addition to his many books, Shapiro has published art=0Acriticism a= nd poetry in The New Yorker, The Paris Review, and Artforum. He has receiv= ed a fellowship from the=0ANational Endowment for the Arts, the Zabel Prize= for Experimental Poetry from=0Athe American Academy of Arts and Letters, a= nd a nomination for a National Book=0AAward in 1971. He has edited volumes= of=0Aaesthetics, translated Alberti=92s poems about Picasso, collaborated = with Rudy=0ABurckhardt on three films, and had a play produced at the Kitch= en, co-authored=0Awith Stephen Paul Miller, called =93Harrisburg Mon=0AAmou= r or Two Boys on the Bus.=94 =0AA professional violinist in his youth, he n= ow writes in Riverdale, New=0AYork, where he lives with his wife Lindsay.= =0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0AFrank Sherlock is the author of Wounds in=0Aan Imaginary= Nature Show (Night Flag Press), Spring Diet of Flowers at=0ANight (Mooncal= f Press), ISO (furniture press) and 13 (Ixnay=0APress). Past collaborations= include work with CAConrad, Jennifer Coleman, and=0Asound artist Alex Wels= h. Publication of his most recent collaborative poem with=0ABrett Evans, en= titled Ready-to-Eat Individual is forthcoming in the near=0Afuture.=0A=0A= =0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A ____________________________________________= ________________________________________=0AFussy? Opinionated? Impossible t= o please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surve= ylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=3D7 =0A ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 12:42:28 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: MTV laureate In-Reply-To: <357552.80715.qm@web86007.mail.ird.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed hm, talk about shameful fannish paranoia. I'm going to pretend that mr. ashbery is unaware of the existence of this list in order to prevent my self from constantly thinking "I better make sure this sounds good, i don't want Ashbery (or anyone else for that matter) to think I'm an idiot." actually, that might be a good thing. one should probably always consider what one is about to say is going to make one look like an imbecile. I've never really had that particular gag reflex, unfortunately. On Thu, 30 Aug 2007, Barry Schwabsky wrote: > What.....if......he's......even......reading.......this.......list.......now! > > Jason Quackenbush wrote: That's an amazing quote. Ah, to be read by John Ashbery! Far and above the new smartass answer I'm going to have the next time someone at a poetry slam gets bewildered and asks me who I'm supposed to be writing for, the fanboy thrill I get at speculating "I wonder if Ashbery has ever stumbled across one of my measly publications?!?!" is a fantastic reminder that the point of writing poetry is not publication, money, awards or tenured professorships, nor is it therapy, making political statements, or developing your spirituality. I suppose poetry can be used for all of those things, but i think when it comes down to it the point, for most of us who take the writing seriously, is to be read by intelligent, sympathetic eyes. Personally, I think that's as admirable as goals come. > > > On Wed, 29 Aug 2007, Aryanil Mukherjee wrote: > >> That's a laudably bold and clear stand for a great poet any language should be >> proud of. >> I remember, you wrote - "John Ashbery is America's greatest living poet, he >> is also greatly misunderstood". >> >> Whether Ashbery and MTV go together is a mute point, but the "old folks >> can also write" verbatim confounded me. Poets aren't soccer players, I >> always thought. There are scores of old poets, both men and women, >> that I can think of in a large number of languages around the world who >> have written/write competent (if not good or new) poetry. Adonis, for example, >> at 75+ is an outstanding example - a probable Nobel candidate for 2008. >> >> Ferlinghetti still writes good poetry (if not inspiring) at 88. So does Snyder. >> There are others, don't forget Diane di Prima. >> >> I'd like to quote Ashbery here on the challenges and virtues of older poets >> from a John Tranter (& Jacket Magazine) interview of JA from 1988 - >> >> "Also I think the fact that the older one gets - for many people, at least - >> the more prolific one gets, realising there aren't the oceans of time that seem >> to be stretching ahead when one was young. And one learns to use it, and >> realise how precious it is." >> >> I have been working with John Ashbery for about three years now >> on a self-funded translation (into Bengali) project which I recently concluded >> with an interview (to appear in Kaurab, September 07) , the Bengali version >> of which is due to appear in Kabisammelan, a poetry-monthly published >> from Kolkata, India. Here is a little sneak preview from that interview - a >> response >> which I liked a lot...see that as exemplary for younger poets like us - when >> asked >> about if he still reads his contemporaries, JA reflects - >> >> "I don't read the work of my friends anymore (smiles)...specially my own work, >> which I don't read at all. So I don't have much idea as to what New York School >> poetry is like. Basically, of late I like to read the more young contemporary >> poets, many of them have been influenced by me and who have then gone on to >> write their own and are now influencing me. " >> >> >> >> I'll put my hands together for such an "old folk". >> >> >> >> Aryanil Mukherjee >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Webster Schultz" >> >> To: > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 2:15 PM >> Subject: MTV laureate >> >> >>> There have been plenty of women poet laureates in recent years, among them >>> Rita Dove, >>> Louise Gluck, and others. What there have not been are gay or lesbian >>> poets. So I stand >>> in support of John Ashbery for MTV poet laureate! Plus he's a wonderful >>> poet. >>> >>> Susan M. Schultz >>> >>> http://tinfishpress.com >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: >>> 269.12.12/979 - Release Date: 8/29/2007 8:21 PM >>> >>> >> > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 12:44:12 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: links page call MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As September is almost upon us, I'm putting out the sometimes word on = the list of links I keep for Portland State University's English = Department. This is a list mainly of on-line literary journals with legs, and = personal sites and blogs of digital literary artists, along with some = research sites.=20 As it's on a public university's server, no sites that have anything for = sale are allowed. If you want to be added to this list, which I'm happy to hear is quite = popular around the Net, please let me know: weishaus@pdx.edu The page is at: http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282/cew/cew.htm Thanks, Joel ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:11:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Diane DiPrima Subject: Re: ABC News: In Rare Move, Texas Gov. Commutes Inmate's Death Sentence In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Yayy! One can but hope that the tide may be finally turning. . . Diane di Prima > From: David Chirot > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 11:58:24 -0700 > To: > Subject: ABC News: In Rare Move, Texas Gov. Commutes Inmate's Death Sentence > > http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=3541391&page=1 --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 21:27:22 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barry Schwabsky Subject: Re: the five friends and five enemies of writing In-Reply-To: <46D70D3B.809@ilstu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Curiosuly, the enemies of your writing are the friends of mine! Gabriel Gudding wrote: aside from you and me, they are listed here: __________________________________ http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com ---------------------------------- Gabriel, enemy of writing ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 17:44:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: the five friends and five enemies of writing In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit yes, these are the exers. students should read. and do. On 8/30/07 3:33 PM, "Diane DiPrima" wrote: > Thanks for these! Diane di Prima > > >> From: Gabriel Gudding >> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:32:27 -0500 >> To: >> Subject: the five friends and five enemies of writing >> >> aside from you and me, they are listed here: >> __________________________________ >> http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com >> ---------------------------------- >> Gabriel, enemy of writing ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:47:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: the five friends and five enemies of writing In-Reply-To: <46D70D3B.809@ilstu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed I agree with most of your enemies, but in my experience your friends Effort Concentration and Awareness are like the salesmen of the enemies, pushing them on us like a drug. "Hey kid," says Awareness, "Howzabout you and me go over here and smoke us some doubt." "Good idea," says Concentration, "and while we're at it I've got some liquid Craving we can drop, and I'm sure my buddy Awareness has some powdered A&A we could snort." "A&A" says Effort. "What's that?" "It's a speedball of Aversion and Agitation, that gives rise to Apathy which is almost as good as being blissed out on Sloth, but cheaper." to counter this effect, I have learned to make a friend of the wu-wei of writing. of writing without writing. not writing effortlessly, not exerting oneself to effortlessness, but rather through a holistic cultivation of the sloth alkaloid which can be profitably extracted from sick days, three day weekends, and late nights watching DVDs of old movies. A much maligned but endlessly useful entheogen, I have found that sloth, if not abused, can be used to transcend the efforts of Effort and Co. to move into a mystical state of notwriting in which my best writing is always produced. Of course, it's difficult to be in this state, and difficult to move away from it, because again in my experience, the more you try not to write the less writing actually gets done. Note that this is not counter intuitive. The end method, if it can be called such a thing, is to attempt to cultivate an activity in which one is neither writing nor notwriting. It is in this state that notwriting will begin, so long as you don't overdose on sloth and unintentionally give way to intention. The danger exists, of course, of becoming a sloth junkie, and those of us who have learned how to ride that particular horse have all fallen by the wayside from time to time, spending months, sometimes years strung out on the stuff. But then, that's when you really have to turn to Aversion and Agitation to straighten out and get back on the path... On Thu, 30 Aug 2007, Gabriel Gudding wrote: > aside from you and me, they are listed here: > __________________________________ > http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com > ---------------------------------- > Gabriel, enemy of writing > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:42:38 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: "Arabic as a Terrorist Language" and "National Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week" coming to 200 Campuses in USA in October MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline The First Amendment is the first "security" and Protection Under the Law Americans and residents in USA are supposed to have, yet as the translation of the Guantanamo poetry shows, there is a rampant suspicion that foreign languages, especially Arabic, are automatically "suspect" the moment they are spoken, written, read and taught. (The huge storm over an Arabic language school in NYC for example.) Fear of illegal aliens from Mexico especially is in part due to a fear for the "National Language of America" (English) having to rub shoulders with a rapidly growing number of Spanish and bi-lingual citizens if the illegals "are allowed to have their way/say." Now, coming to a campus near you in October, will be National Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week--further coupling Islam and Terror and adding on the Arabic language for ever increased vigilance and "Homeland Security." The War on Terror turning into a War on a Language becomes a threat to Freedom of Speech. Ironically, insanely, rather than simply fighting the War "over there" so it will not come "here," the War against "the Arabic-Islamo-Terrorism" World (all three being equated as one) is being brought straight into the American schools, Universities, Campuses as well as two in Israel. Suddenly Hate Speech is "defending" the country against Freedom of Speech. Welcome to the Land of the Brave & the Home of the Free. http://davidbaptistechirot.blogspot.com/2007/08/war-on-terror-in-american-schools-and.html "Guide" and introduction plus list of the 200 US and 2 Israeli participating campuses: http://www.terrorismawareness.org/islamo-fascism/49/a-students-guide-to-hosting-islamo-fascism-awareness-week/ --- "Arabic is the Language of Terrorism" http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=30&ItemID=13639 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 18:11:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: Poison Pad MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable new novel on looseleaf paper, by a friend of mine here in Minnesota:=20 =20 POISON PAD by Dave Kunz =20 for sale at this site: =20 http://www.lamano21.com/ =20 =20 the distributor's commentary: man, these sort of unsolicited "WHAT THE HELL?!?" items make my world go round: a 1" loosleaf stack of 1/4 size sheets of crappy paper (in a nice handmade cardboard box), defined as "A Notepad Novella" and "Disposable Fiction". you open it up. the first page is the "Users Manual", to wit;=20 =20 "1. Remove entire POISON PAD from box cover. 2. Read first panel. 3.Flip panel over, place to the side. 4. Repeat until done. 5. Re-read or use blank side as note paper. 6. In case of paper cut please do not contact an attorney." =20 next page reads=20 =20 "Not that it matters but everything that follows was found stuffed inside an old beercase behind a falling down garage in an alley next to a garbage bin."=20 =20 what follows story is told through copies of notes between roommates of a house scrawled on junk mail, photocopies of the contents of a wallet, personal notes, and whatever else...it all comes together as a story with just the right combination of hilarious and upsetting, and i've never seen anything quite like it in my life. i'll be damned if i'm gonna use mine as a notepad, but maybe you will. each box seems to be numbered and personalized. highly reccomended. =20 =20 =20 =20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:24:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: the five friends and five enemies of writing In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Jason, You remind me of my readings of "The Pilgrim's Progress." Murat On 8/30/07, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > > I agree with most of your enemies, but in my experience your friends > Effort Concentration and Awareness are like the salesmen of the enemies, > pushing them on us like a drug. "Hey kid," says Awareness, "Howzabout you > and me go over here and smoke us some doubt." "Good idea," says > Concentration, "and while we're at it I've got some liquid Craving we can > drop, and I'm sure my buddy Awareness has some powdered A&A we could snort." > "A&A" says Effort. "What's that?" "It's a speedball of Aversion and > Agitation, that gives rise to Apathy which is almost as good as being > blissed out on Sloth, but cheaper." > > to counter this effect, I have learned to make a friend of the wu-wei of > writing. of writing without writing. not writing effortlessly, not exerting > oneself to effortlessness, but rather through a holistic cultivation of the > sloth alkaloid which can be profitably extracted from sick days, three day > weekends, and late nights watching DVDs of old movies. A much maligned but > endlessly useful entheogen, I have found that sloth, if not abused, can be > used to transcend the efforts of Effort and Co. to move into a mystical > state of notwriting in which my best writing is always produced. > > Of course, it's difficult to be in this state, and difficult to move away > from it, because again in my experience, the more you try not to write the > less writing actually gets done. Note that this is not counter intuitive. > > The end method, if it can be called such a thing, is to attempt to > cultivate an activity in which one is neither writing nor notwriting. It is > in this state that notwriting will begin, so long as you don't overdose on > sloth and unintentionally give way to intention. > > The danger exists, of course, of becoming a sloth junkie, and those of us > who have learned how to ride that particular horse have all fallen by the > wayside from time to time, spending months, sometimes years strung out on > the stuff. But then, that's when you really have to turn to Aversion and > Agitation to straighten out and get back on the path... > > On Thu, 30 Aug 2007, Gabriel Gudding wrote: > > > aside from you and me, they are listed here: > > __________________________________ > > http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com > > ---------------------------------- > > Gabriel, enemy of writing > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 07:31:16 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Switaj Subject: Re: MTV laureate In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline The longer this goes on, the more John Ashbery starts to sound like God. Elizabeth Kate Switaj www.elizabethkateswitaj.net On 8/31/07, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > > hm, talk about shameful fannish paranoia. I'm going to pretend that mr. > ashbery is unaware of the existence of this list in order to prevent my self > from constantly thinking "I better make sure this sounds good, i don't want > Ashbery (or anyone else for that matter) to think I'm an idiot." > > actually, that might be a good thing. one should probably always consider > what one is about to say is going to make one look like an imbecile. I've > never really had that particular gag reflex, unfortunately. > > On Thu, 30 Aug 2007, Barry Schwabsky wrote: > > > > What.....if......he's......even......reading.......this.......list.......now! > > > > Jason Quackenbush wrote: That's an amazing quote. Ah, to > be read by John Ashbery! Far and above the new smartass answer I'm going to > have the next time someone at a poetry slam gets bewildered and asks me who > I'm supposed to be writing for, the fanboy thrill I get at speculating "I > wonder if Ashbery has ever stumbled across one of my measly > publications?!?!" is a fantastic reminder that the point of writing poetry > is not publication, money, awards or tenured professorships, nor is it > therapy, making political statements, or developing your spirituality. I > suppose poetry can be used for all of those things, but i think when it > comes down to it the point, for most of us who take the writing seriously, > is to be read by intelligent, sympathetic eyes. Personally, I think that's > as admirable as goals come. > > > > > > On Wed, 29 Aug 2007, Aryanil Mukherjee wrote: > > > >> That's a laudably bold and clear stand for a great poet any language > should be > >> proud of. > >> I remember, you wrote - "John Ashbery is America's greatest living > poet, he > >> is also greatly misunderstood". > >> > >> Whether Ashbery and MTV go together is a mute point, but the "old folks > >> can also write" verbatim confounded me. Poets aren't soccer players, I > >> always thought. There are scores of old poets, both men and women, > >> that I can think of in a large number of languages around the world who > >> have written/write competent (if not good or new) poetry. Adonis, for > example, > >> at 75+ is an outstanding example - a probable Nobel candidate for 2008. > >> > >> Ferlinghetti still writes good poetry (if not inspiring) at 88. So does > Snyder. > >> There are others, don't forget Diane di Prima. > >> > >> I'd like to quote Ashbery here on the challenges and virtues of older > poets > >> from a John Tranter (& Jacket Magazine) interview of JA from 1988 - > >> > >> "Also I think the fact that the older one gets - for many people, at > least - > >> the more prolific one gets, realising there aren't the oceans of time > that seem > >> to be stretching ahead when one was young. And one learns to use it, > and > >> realise how precious it is." > >> > >> I have been working with John Ashbery for about three years now > >> on a self-funded translation (into Bengali) project which I recently > concluded > >> with an interview (to appear in Kaurab, September 07) , the Bengali > version > >> of which is due to appear in Kabisammelan, a poetry-monthly published > >> from Kolkata, India. Here is a little sneak preview from that interview > - a > >> response > >> which I liked a lot...see that as exemplary for younger poets like us - > when > >> asked > >> about if he still reads his contemporaries, JA reflects - > >> > >> "I don't read the work of my friends anymore (smiles)...specially my > own work, > >> which I don't read at all. So I don't have much idea as to what New > York School > >> poetry is like. Basically, of late I like to read the more young > contemporary > >> poets, many of them have been influenced by me and who have then gone > on to > >> write their own and are now influencing me. " > >> > >> > >> > >> I'll put my hands together for such an "old folk". > >> > >> > >> > >> Aryanil Mukherjee > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Webster Schultz" > >> > >> To: > > > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 2:15 PM > >> Subject: MTV laureate > >> > >> > >>> There have been plenty of women poet laureates in recent years, among > them > >>> Rita Dove, > >>> Louise Gluck, and others. What there have not been are gay or lesbian > >>> poets. So I stand > >>> in support of John Ashbery for MTV poet laureate! Plus he's a > wonderful > >>> poet. > >>> > >>> Susan M. Schultz > >>> > >>> http://tinfishpress.com > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> No virus found in this incoming message. > >>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: > >>> 269.12.12/979 - Release Date: 8/29/2007 8:21 PM > >>> > >>> > >> > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 00:34:58 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: reJennifer Bartlett Subject: Cid Corman/ Mary Higgins Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed On SES blog. An old letter I recently found from Cid Corman & thinking of Mary Higgins. saintelizabethstreet.blogspot.com JB _________________________________________________________________ A new home for Mom, no cleanup required. All starts here. http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 21:36:03 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Beckett Subject: New at E-X-C-H-A-N-G-E-V-A-L-U-E-S... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit an Interview with Stephen Vincent. Go here: http://willtoexchange.blogspot.com ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 22:16:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Re: ABC News: In Rare Move, Texas Gov. Commutes Inmate's Death Sentence In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yeah, right on! -- Pierre On Aug 30, 2007, at 2:58 PM, David Chirot wrote: > http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=3541391&page=1 --- ___________________________________________________________ The poet: always in partibus infidelium -- Paul Celan ___________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris 244 Elm Street Albany NY 12202 h: 518 426 0433 c: 518 225 7123 o: 518 442 40 71 Euro cell: (011 33) 6 75 43 57 10 email: joris@albany.edu http://pierrejoris.com Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com ____________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 22:45:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: Five Enemies, MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Five Enemies Doubt: Three kinds of doubt: Doubt in oneself; doubt in the efficacy and usefulness of writing in general; doubt in the writing project before one. >> It's the opposite for me; if I didn't doubt almost to the point of annihilation, I couldn't work at all. It's intrinsic in the process. Aversion (ill will, anger): I dont want to do this. I dont want to write right now. Writing is stupid. This project is stupid. I dont feel like writing right now. I hate writing in general. I hate this whole book idea. This task is boring. I dont like this aspect of that. I dont like that aspect of this. I dont like, I dont like, I dont like. >> The same. As PIL says Anger is an energy. I need it. Craving: Two kinds. Extrinsic: Desiring to do something else. Desiring a state that is not present. I want to do something else, watch a movie, I want to go bicycling instead of writing. >> But I do! Writing is too difficult and the sooner I get it sent off, the sooner I can breathe again. Intrinsic: Craving an outcome from the writing itself. I want to have this outcome from this writing NOW or SOON or like next week, I want to write a masterpiece now, I want to write a great line now, I want to write a great paragraph now. And we become disappointed because we inevitably crave more than we acquire. >> I absolutely believe this. I want to write masterpieces / mistress- pieces, period. Anything else, I lose energy. I might live in disappoint- ment but the craving drives me. Agitation (restlessness, worry): This is boring. Im bored. Gyawd, Ive got to write ALL THESE words??! >> And agitation, yes, writing in a state of fury or despair or the sense of total destruction, yes. Sloth, Laziness: General lassitude leading to inaction and inanition. Nothing written, nothing discovered, nothing made. >> This is the only one I agree on; if you don't have the energy, you're silent, which is not necessarily a bad thing and might lead to something terrific day after tomorrow. For me there are NO enemies to writing except for internal or external States that prohibit taking up the pen or keyboard. - Alan ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 20:30:35 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander Subject: Re: MTV laureate In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed yes, and isn't he really just one of us? charles At 04:31 PM 8/30/2007, you wrote: >The longer this goes on, the more John Ashbery starts to sound like God. > >Elizabeth Kate Switaj >www.elizabethkateswitaj.net > >On 8/31/07, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > > > > hm, talk about shameful fannish paranoia. I'm going to pretend that mr. > > ashbery is unaware of the existence of this list in order to > prevent my self > > from constantly thinking "I better make sure this sounds good, i don't want > > Ashbery (or anyone else for that matter) to think I'm an idiot." > > > > actually, that might be a good thing. one should probably always consider > > what one is about to say is going to make one look like an imbecile. I've > > never really had that particular gag reflex, unfortunately. > > > > On Thu, 30 Aug 2007, Barry Schwabsky wrote: > > > > > > > > What.....if......he's......even......reading.......this.......list.......now! > > > > > > Jason Quackenbush wrote: That's an amazing quote. Ah, to > > be read by John Ashbery! Far and above the new smartass answer I'm going to > > have the next time someone at a poetry slam gets bewildered and asks me who > > I'm supposed to be writing for, the fanboy thrill I get at speculating "I > > wonder if Ashbery has ever stumbled across one of my measly > > publications?!?!" is a fantastic reminder that the point of writing poetry > > is not publication, money, awards or tenured professorships, nor is it > > therapy, making political statements, or developing your spirituality. I > > suppose poetry can be used for all of those things, but i think when it > > comes down to it the point, for most of us who take the writing seriously, > > is to be read by intelligent, sympathetic eyes. Personally, I think that's > > as admirable as goals come. > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 29 Aug 2007, Aryanil Mukherjee wrote: > > > > > >> That's a laudably bold and clear stand for a great poet any language > > should be > > >> proud of. > > >> I remember, you wrote - "John Ashbery is America's greatest living > > poet, he > > >> is also greatly misunderstood". > > >> > > >> Whether Ashbery and MTV go together is a mute point, but the "old folks > > >> can also write" verbatim confounded me. Poets aren't soccer players, I > > >> always thought. There are scores of old poets, both men and women, > > >> that I can think of in a large number of languages around the world who > > >> have written/write competent (if not good or new) poetry. Adonis, for > > example, > > >> at 75+ is an outstanding example - a probable Nobel candidate for 2008. > > >> > > >> Ferlinghetti still writes good poetry (if not inspiring) at 88. So does > > Snyder. > > >> There are others, don't forget Diane di Prima. > > >> > > >> I'd like to quote Ashbery here on the challenges and virtues of older > > poets > > >> from a John Tranter (& Jacket Magazine) interview of JA from 1988 - > > >> > > >> "Also I think the fact that the older one gets - for many people, at > > least - > > >> the more prolific one gets, realising there aren't the oceans of time > > that seem > > >> to be stretching ahead when one was young. And one learns to use it, > > and > > >> realise how precious it is." > > >> > > >> I have been working with John Ashbery for about three years now > > >> on a self-funded translation (into Bengali) project which I recently > > concluded > > >> with an interview (to appear in Kaurab, September 07) , the Bengali > > version > > >> of which is due to appear in Kabisammelan, a poetry-monthly published > > >> from Kolkata, India. Here is a little sneak preview from that interview > > - a > > >> response > > >> which I liked a lot...see that as exemplary for younger poets like us - > > when > > >> asked > > >> about if he still reads his contemporaries, JA reflects - > > >> > > >> "I don't read the work of my friends anymore (smiles)...specially my > > own work, > > >> which I don't read at all. So I don't have much idea as to what New > > York School > > >> poetry is like. Basically, of late I like to read the more young > > contemporary > > >> poets, many of them have been influenced by me and who have then gone > > on to > > >> write their own and are now influencing me. " > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> I'll put my hands together for such an "old folk". > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Aryanil Mukherjee > > >> > > >> > > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Webster Schultz" > > >> > > >> To: > > > > > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 2:15 PM > > >> Subject: MTV laureate > > >> > > >> > > >>> There have been plenty of women poet laureates in recent years, among > > them > > >>> Rita Dove, > > >>> Louise Gluck, and others. What there have not been are gay or lesbian > > >>> poets. So I stand > > >>> in support of John Ashbery for MTV poet laureate! Plus he's a > > wonderful > > >>> poet. > > >>> > > >>> Susan M. Schultz > > >>> > > >>> http://tinfishpress.com > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> -- > > >>> No virus found in this incoming message. > > >>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: > > >>> 269.12.12/979 - Release Date: 8/29/2007 8:21 PM > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > > > > charles alexander / chax press fold the book inside the book keep it open always read from the inside out speak then Chax Press 520-620-1626 (studio) 520-275-4330 (cell) chax@theriver.com chax.org 650 E. 9th St. Tucson, AZ 85705 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 22:33:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: Re: friends MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i think i agree with you on all yr points, alan in fact, i don't disagree, really, with anything you say below. i'm with you in all these points. this was written for some undergraduates who are not yet used to writing and whose writing concerns are sometimes on a different order than yours perhaps most often are. i agree that these things can act as goads -- and if anything, for me, they are sometimes the ways my heart and mind find their way again to flourishing. for some folks though, i think they can become complete impediments. otherwise, yes, doubt of a certain kind is essential; *not wanting* is essential; wanting is essential; rhythmical inaction and inanition are essential. these all, so long as we continue to make the effort, enrich us if we refuse to allow them to destroy us. thx for yr response, alan, and may i say how happy i am to be here with you. love, g thanks, diane, for yr kind response. - gabriel <> It's the opposite for me; if I didn't doubt almost to the point of annihilation, I couldn't work at all. It's intrinsic in the process. Aversion (ill will, anger): I dont want to do this. I dont want to write right now. Writing is stupid. This project is stupid. I dont feel like writing right now. I hate writing in general. I hate this whole book idea. This task is boring. I dont like this aspect of that. I dont like that aspect of this. I dont like, I dont like, I dont like. >> The same. As PIL says Anger is an energy. I need it. Craving: Two kinds. Extrinsic: Desiring to do something else. Desiring a state that is not present. I want to do something else, watch a movie, I want to go bicycling instead of writing. >> But I do! Writing is too difficult and the sooner I get it sent off, the sooner I can breathe again. Intrinsic: Craving an outcome from the writing itself. I want to have this outcome from this writing NOW or SOON or like next week, I want to write a masterpiece now, I want to write a great line now, I want to write a great paragraph now. And we become disappointed because we inevitably crave more than we acquire. >> I absolutely believe this. I want to write masterpieces / mistress- pieces, period. Anything else, I lose energy. I might live in disappoint- ment but the craving drives me. Agitation (restlessness, worry): This is boring. Im bored. Gyawd, Ive got to write ALL THESE words??! >> And agitation, yes, writing in a state of fury or despair or the sense of total destruction, yes. Sloth, Laziness: General lassitude leading to inaction and inanition. Nothing written, nothing discovered, nothing made. >> This is the only one I agree on; if you don't have the energy, you're silent, which is not necessarily a bad thing and might lead to something terrific day after tomorrow. For me there are NO enemies to writing except for internal or external States that prohibit taking up the pen or keyboard. - Alan ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 13:45:06 +0900 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Glass Subject: More On Dru MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" On 8/30/2007, "Eric Mader" wrote: More about Dru Stroud's condition, Jesse. >I can pass on two bits of news regarding Drew Stroud. First, that he is >registered in the hospital under the name Ryu Makoto. Second, the following >which I paste from an email I just got: > >-----The man who's name you gave me called me back today. He's been out of >town. According to him, Drew has a phone in his room. [Will give number back channel]. >According to him, Drew is able to talk, though he is paralyzed. The hospital >is looking to transfer him to some rehabilitiation facility in the area. > > >The direct line to UCSF Mount Zion Hospital is 1-415-567-6600.---- > >I will ring tomorrow. Gloria Oden got him on the phone briefly. > >Eric Mader ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 06:43:58 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barry Schwabsky Subject: Re: Five Enemies, In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Yes, exactly. And even being prevented from writing may turn out to have been a good thing, later. Alan Sondheim wrote: Five Enemies Doubt: Three kinds of doubt: Doubt in oneself; doubt in the efficacy and usefulness of writing in general; doubt in the writing project before one. >> It's the opposite for me; if I didn't doubt almost to the point of annihilation, I couldn't work at all. It's intrinsic in the process. Aversion (ill will, anger): I dont want to do this. I dont want to write right now. Writing is stupid. This project is stupid. I dont feel like writing right now. I hate writing in general. I hate this whole book idea. This task is boring. I dont like this aspect of that. I dont like that aspect of this. I dont like, I dont like, I dont like. >> The same. As PIL says Anger is an energy. I need it. Craving: Two kinds. Extrinsic: Desiring to do something else. Desiring a state that is not present. I want to do something else, watch a movie, I want to go bicycling instead of writing. >> But I do! Writing is too difficult and the sooner I get it sent off, the sooner I can breathe again. Intrinsic: Craving an outcome from the writing itself. I want to have this outcome from this writing NOW or SOON or like next week, I want to write a masterpiece now, I want to write a great line now, I want to write a great paragraph now. And we become disappointed because we inevitably crave more than we acquire. >> I absolutely believe this. I want to write masterpieces / mistress- pieces, period. Anything else, I lose energy. I might live in disappoint- ment but the craving drives me. Agitation (restlessness, worry): This is boring. Im bored. Gyawd, Ive got to write ALL THESE words??! >> And agitation, yes, writing in a state of fury or despair or the sense of total destruction, yes. Sloth, Laziness: General lassitude leading to inaction and inanition. Nothing written, nothing discovered, nothing made. >> This is the only one I agree on; if you don't have the energy, you're silent, which is not necessarily a bad thing and might lead to something terrific day after tomorrow. For me there are NO enemies to writing except for internal or external States that prohibit taking up the pen or keyboard. - Alan ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 09:13:37 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barry Schwabsky Subject: Re: MTV laureate In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20070830203015.035844a0@theriver.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit "Gabba gabba, we accept you, one of us." --The Ramones, after Tod Browning's "Freaks" Actually, if Harold Bloom were reading this, he would probably point out that unfortunately, most of us are just one of him. (Ashbery, that is.) charles alexander wrote: yes, and isn't he really just one of us? charles At 04:31 PM 8/30/2007, you wrote: >The longer this goes on, the more John Ashbery starts to sound like God. > >Elizabeth Kate Switaj >www.elizabethkateswitaj.net > >On 8/31/07, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > > > > hm, talk about shameful fannish paranoia. I'm going to pretend that mr. > > ashbery is unaware of the existence of this list in order to > prevent my self > > from constantly thinking "I better make sure this sounds good, i don't want > > Ashbery (or anyone else for that matter) to think I'm an idiot." > > > > actually, that might be a good thing. one should probably always consider > > what one is about to say is going to make one look like an imbecile. I've > > never really had that particular gag reflex, unfortunately. > > > > On Thu, 30 Aug 2007, Barry Schwabsky wrote: > > > > > > > > What.....if......he's......even......reading.......this.......list.......now! > > > > > > Jason Quackenbush wrote: That's an amazing quote. Ah, to > > be read by John Ashbery! Far and above the new smartass answer I'm going to > > have the next time someone at a poetry slam gets bewildered and asks me who > > I'm supposed to be writing for, the fanboy thrill I get at speculating "I > > wonder if Ashbery has ever stumbled across one of my measly > > publications?!?!" is a fantastic reminder that the point of writing poetry > > is not publication, money, awards or tenured professorships, nor is it > > therapy, making political statements, or developing your spirituality. I > > suppose poetry can be used for all of those things, but i think when it > > comes down to it the point, for most of us who take the writing seriously, > > is to be read by intelligent, sympathetic eyes. Personally, I think that's > > as admirable as goals come. > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 29 Aug 2007, Aryanil Mukherjee wrote: > > > > > >> That's a laudably bold and clear stand for a great poet any language > > should be > > >> proud of. > > >> I remember, you wrote - "John Ashbery is America's greatest living > > poet, he > > >> is also greatly misunderstood". > > >> > > >> Whether Ashbery and MTV go together is a mute point, but the "old folks > > >> can also write" verbatim confounded me. Poets aren't soccer players, I > > >> always thought. There are scores of old poets, both men and women, > > >> that I can think of in a large number of languages around the world who > > >> have written/write competent (if not good or new) poetry. Adonis, for > > example, > > >> at 75+ is an outstanding example - a probable Nobel candidate for 2008. > > >> > > >> Ferlinghetti still writes good poetry (if not inspiring) at 88. So does > > Snyder. > > >> There are others, don't forget Diane di Prima. > > >> > > >> I'd like to quote Ashbery here on the challenges and virtues of older > > poets > > >> from a John Tranter (& Jacket Magazine) interview of JA from 1988 - > > >> > > >> "Also I think the fact that the older one gets - for many people, at > > least - > > >> the more prolific one gets, realising there aren't the oceans of time > > that seem > > >> to be stretching ahead when one was young. And one learns to use it, > > and > > >> realise how precious it is." > > >> > > >> I have been working with John Ashbery for about three years now > > >> on a self-funded translation (into Bengali) project which I recently > > concluded > > >> with an interview (to appear in Kaurab, September 07) , the Bengali > > version > > >> of which is due to appear in Kabisammelan, a poetry-monthly published > > >> from Kolkata, India. Here is a little sneak preview from that interview > > - a > > >> response > > >> which I liked a lot...see that as exemplary for younger poets like us - > > when > > >> asked > > >> about if he still reads his contemporaries, JA reflects - > > >> > > >> "I don't read the work of my friends anymore (smiles)...specially my > > own work, > > >> which I don't read at all. So I don't have much idea as to what New > > York School > > >> poetry is like. Basically, of late I like to read the more young > > contemporary > > >> poets, many of them have been influenced by me and who have then gone > > on to > > >> write their own and are now influencing me. " > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> I'll put my hands together for such an "old folk". > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Aryanil Mukherjee > > >> > > >> > > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Webster Schultz" > > >> > > >> To: > > > > > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 2:15 PM > > >> Subject: MTV laureate > > >> > > >> > > >>> There have been plenty of women poet laureates in recent years, among > > them > > >>> Rita Dove, > > >>> Louise Gluck, and others. What there have not been are gay or lesbian > > >>> poets. So I stand > > >>> in support of John Ashbery for MTV poet laureate! Plus he's a > > wonderful > > >>> poet. > > >>> > > >>> Susan M. Schultz > > >>> > > >>> http://tinfishpress.com > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> -- > > >>> No virus found in this incoming message. > > >>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: > > >>> 269.12.12/979 - Release Date: 8/29/2007 8:21 PM > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > > > > charles alexander / chax press fold the book inside the book keep it open always read from the inside out speak then Chax Press 520-620-1626 (studio) 520-275-4330 (cell) chax@theriver.com chax.org 650 E. 9th St. Tucson, AZ 85705 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 03:13:28 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Nelson Subject: pix pix pick-up sticks and a hunting we will go MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit A bizarre board game transformed into small improvisational films. Pix Pix Pick Up Sticks and a Hunting We Will Go http://www.secrettechnology.com/pixpix/pixpix.html Jason Nelson --------------------------------- Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 19:08:49 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Switaj Subject: Re: Five Enemies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I think that if I didn't doubt, I'd write even more crap than I do already. Maybe the diamonds that I flatter myself are in there now would still be around, but they'd be a lot harder to find. It's really that way with everything that seems to hamper writing; even sloth-- or in my case, exhaustion-- keeps me away from writing the unnecessary. The enemy of my writing is my friend. (Does that mean writing is my enemy?) Elizabeth Kate Switaj www.elizabethkateswitaj.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 09:10:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Five Enemies, In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Alan, Yours is a poetics of panics, as I think many of your most vibrant pieces are around panic. What is that sword's edge where panic leads to energy and not paralysis? The same way, what is the distinction between sloth and negative capability? I, on my part, these days I am full of negative capability. If it goes on another day, it'll be sloth. In those five enemies, isn't Gabe not referring to the "internal State"? Ciao, Murat On 8/30/07, Alan Sondheim < sondheim@panix.com> wrote: > > Five Enemies > > Doubt: Three kinds of doubt: > > Doubt in oneself; doubt in the efficacy and usefulness of writing in > general; doubt in the writing project before one. > > >> It's the opposite for me; if I didn't doubt almost to the point of > annihilation, I couldn't work at all. It's intrinsic in the process. > > Aversion (ill will, anger): I dont want to do this. I dont want to write > right now. Writing is stupid. This project is stupid. I dont feel like > writing right now. I hate writing in general. I hate this whole book idea. > This task is boring. I dont like this aspect of that. I dont like that > aspect of this. I dont like, I dont like, I dont like. > > >> The same. As PIL says Anger is an energy. I need it. > > Craving: Two kinds. > > Extrinsic: Desiring to do something else. Desiring a state that is not > present. I want to do something else, watch a movie, I want to go > bicycling instead of writing. > > >> But I do! Writing is too difficult and the sooner I get it sent off, > the sooner I can breathe again. > > Intrinsic: Craving an outcome from the writing itself. I want to have this > outcome from this writing NOW or SOON or like next week, I want to write a > masterpiece now, I want to write a great line now, I want to write a great > > paragraph now. And we become disappointed because we inevitably crave more > than we acquire. > > >> I absolutely believe this. I want to write masterpieces / mistress- > pieces, period. Anything else, I lose energy. I might live in disappoint- > ment but the craving drives me. > > Agitation (restlessness, worry): This is boring. Im bored. Gyawd, Ive got > to write ALL THESE words??! > > >> And agitation, yes, writing in a state of fury or despair or the sense > of total destruction, yes. > > Sloth, Laziness: General lassitude leading to inaction and inanition. > Nothing written, nothing discovered, nothing made. > > >> This is the only one I agree on; if you don't have the energy, you're > silent, which is not necessarily a bad thing and might lead to something > terrific day after tomorrow. > > For me there are NO enemies to writing except for internal or external > States that prohibit taking up the pen or keyboard. > > - Alan > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 06:37:36 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alexander Dickow Subject: me too, yup In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Jason, I commiserate. Amicalement, Alex Jason wrote: hm, talk about shameful fannish paranoia. I'm going to pretend that mr. ashbery is unaware of the existence of this list in order to prevent my self from constantly thinking "I better make sure this sounds good, i don't want Ashbery (or anyone else for that matter) to think I'm an idiot." actually, that might be a good thing. one should probably always consider what one is about to say is going to make one look like an imbecile. I've never really had that particular gag reflex, unfortunately. www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel désert à la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 07:19:49 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: Cid Corman/ Mary Higgins In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I love the fact that you did a thesis on Muriel Rukeyser. I've had her Collected Poems in my home for over ten years without reading it. I lacked a "key" to her poetry which I found,a week or so ago, in a marvelous poem called "The Key". Now I feel like a great fan of her work and am finally reading her book, or at least two thirds of it, from "The Key" onwards. I agree with you (or Cid Corman) that it is uneven. But when it works, it is among the best the twentieth century produced. Regards, Tom Savage reJennifer Bartlett wrote: On SES blog. An old letter I recently found from Cid Corman & thinking of Mary Higgins. saintelizabethstreet.blogspot.com JB _________________________________________________________________ A new home for Mom, no cleanup required. All starts here. http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us --------------------------------- Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 07:20:33 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve russell Subject: Re: MTV laureate In-Reply-To: <673382.47888.qm@web86015.mail.ird.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit i'm back and forth with Ashberry. sometimes i find his stuff to be little more than day dream dribble, and too Godddamn cute for their own good. but the long poems: Flow Chart, Self Portrait, 3 poems, keep me coming back. If Ash isn't major, he's awfully innovative. Barry Schwabsky wrote: "Gabba gabba, we accept you, one of us." --The Ramones, after Tod Browning's "Freaks" Actually, if Harold Bloom were reading this, he would probably point out that unfortunately, most of us are just one of him. (Ashbery, that is.) charles alexander wrote: yes, and isn't he really just one of us? charles At 04:31 PM 8/30/2007, you wrote: >The longer this goes on, the more John Ashbery starts to sound like God. > >Elizabeth Kate Switaj >www.elizabethkateswitaj.net > >On 8/31/07, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > > > > hm, talk about shameful fannish paranoia. I'm going to pretend that mr. > > ashbery is unaware of the existence of this list in order to > prevent my self > > from constantly thinking "I better make sure this sounds good, i don't want > > Ashbery (or anyone else for that matter) to think I'm an idiot." > > > > actually, that might be a good thing. one should probably always consider > > what one is about to say is going to make one look like an imbecile. I've > > never really had that particular gag reflex, unfortunately. > > > > On Thu, 30 Aug 2007, Barry Schwabsky wrote: > > > > > > > > What.....if......he's......even......reading.......this.......list.......now! > > > > > > Jason Quackenbush wrote: That's an amazing quote. Ah, to > > be read by John Ashbery! Far and above the new smartass answer I'm going to > > have the next time someone at a poetry slam gets bewildered and asks me who > > I'm supposed to be writing for, the fanboy thrill I get at speculating "I > > wonder if Ashbery has ever stumbled across one of my measly > > publications?!?!" is a fantastic reminder that the point of writing poetry > > is not publication, money, awards or tenured professorships, nor is it > > therapy, making political statements, or developing your spirituality. I > > suppose poetry can be used for all of those things, but i think when it > > comes down to it the point, for most of us who take the writing seriously, > > is to be read by intelligent, sympathetic eyes. Personally, I think that's > > as admirable as goals come. > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 29 Aug 2007, Aryanil Mukherjee wrote: > > > > > >> That's a laudably bold and clear stand for a great poet any language > > should be > > >> proud of. > > >> I remember, you wrote - "John Ashbery is America's greatest living > > poet, he > > >> is also greatly misunderstood". > > >> > > >> Whether Ashbery and MTV go together is a mute point, but the "old folks > > >> can also write" verbatim confounded me. Poets aren't soccer players, I > > >> always thought. There are scores of old poets, both men and women, > > >> that I can think of in a large number of languages around the world who > > >> have written/write competent (if not good or new) poetry. Adonis, for > > example, > > >> at 75+ is an outstanding example - a probable Nobel candidate for 2008. > > >> > > >> Ferlinghetti still writes good poetry (if not inspiring) at 88. So does > > Snyder. > > >> There are others, don't forget Diane di Prima. > > >> > > >> I'd like to quote Ashbery here on the challenges and virtues of older > > poets > > >> from a John Tranter (& Jacket Magazine) interview of JA from 1988 - > > >> > > >> "Also I think the fact that the older one gets - for many people, at > > least - > > >> the more prolific one gets, realising there aren't the oceans of time > > that seem > > >> to be stretching ahead when one was young. And one learns to use it, > > and > > >> realise how precious it is." > > >> > > >> I have been working with John Ashbery for about three years now > > >> on a self-funded translation (into Bengali) project which I recently > > concluded > > >> with an interview (to appear in Kaurab, September 07) , the Bengali > > version > > >> of which is due to appear in Kabisammelan, a poetry-monthly published > > >> from Kolkata, India. Here is a little sneak preview from that interview > > - a > > >> response > > >> which I liked a lot...see that as exemplary for younger poets like us - > > when > > >> asked > > >> about if he still reads his contemporaries, JA reflects - > > >> > > >> "I don't read the work of my friends anymore (smiles)...specially my > > own work, > > >> which I don't read at all. So I don't have much idea as to what New > > York School > > >> poetry is like. Basically, of late I like to read the more young > > contemporary > > >> poets, many of them have been influenced by me and who have then gone > > on to > > >> write their own and are now influencing me. " > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> I'll put my hands together for such an "old folk". > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Aryanil Mukherjee > > >> > > >> > > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Webster Schultz" > > >> > > >> To: > > > > > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 2:15 PM > > >> Subject: MTV laureate > > >> > > >> > > >>> There have been plenty of women poet laureates in recent years, among > > them > > >>> Rita Dove, > > >>> Louise Gluck, and others. What there have not been are gay or lesbian > > >>> poets. So I stand > > >>> in support of John Ashbery for MTV poet laureate! Plus he's a > > wonderful > > >>> poet. > > >>> > > >>> Susan M. Schultz > > >>> > > >>> http://tinfishpress.com > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> -- > > >>> No virus found in this incoming message. > > >>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: > > >>> 269.12.12/979 - Release Date: 8/29/2007 8:21 PM > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > > > > charles alexander / chax press fold the book inside the book keep it open always read from the inside out speak then Chax Press 520-620-1626 (studio) 520-275-4330 (cell) chax@theriver.com chax.org 650 E. 9th St. Tucson, AZ 85705 --------------------------------- Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 12:00:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: Poetry Blog Seeking Submissions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Joe Brainard's Pyjamas is seeking submissions of poetry for the next month (until October 1st) to post to my blog. Prefer shorter poems (say 60 line max) and request submissions in batches of 3 at a time only. Form and subject matter wide open. If you have a book to promote, give me the relevant info and I'll post alongside if I post your work. Payment is self-gratification: feel free to gratify yourself as desired. I am changing my name for the duration of this solicitation to Orgazmatron Prime, so feel free to address the poetry editor as such. After October first, I will revert to my given birthname. Or you can just put "poetry submission" in the subject line (risk being deleted unread if you don't). Email is Bewitjanus@aol.com. Merci and have a great troika weekend! ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 12:58:22 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Boog City 44 Print and PDF Editions Available Comments: To: "UB Poetics discussion group "@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Please forward --------------------- Hi all, The print edition of Boog City 44 will be available Saturday. You can read the pdf version now at: http://welcometoboogcity.com/boogpdfs/bc44.pdf Thanks, David -------------------- Boog City 44 =20 available today =20 featuring: =20 ***Our Music section, edited by Jonathan Berger*** =20 --"It=B9s a dynamic that clearly exists outside of their musical relationship= . Lazzara is talkative; Delano is observant. He is profound, while she is verbose. They have an off stage chemistry that is so strong it fuses directly into their music." --from Following The Leader: The Greatest Band You=B9ve Never Heard by Nicole Chin ***Our Printed Matter section, edited by Mark Lamoureux*** --"Smith=B9s book is peppered with apparitions, ardor and the image of the lone young man against the bad machine of the world." --from Standing on th= e Shoulders of The Giants; The Singers by Logan Ryan Smith (Dusie Press Books), reviewed by Mark Lamoureux --"The cross-sectional world enters into Er=B9s narrative structure with a factual and unfiltered demeanor." --from Progress Report; sight progress by Zhang Er, translation from Chinese by Rachel Levitsky with the author (Pleasure Boat Studio), reviewed by Scott Glassman ***Our Politics section, edited by Christina Strong*** --"I think it=B9s sad really, because when I am out and about on my bike all = I see is people delivering cheap Chinese food, pizza, or whatever hasn=B9t grow= n mould from the local deli. Or rather, I do see other bicyclists, but they seem more =8Chardcore=B9 than me, as if they=B9re training for, well, the Tour de France." --from Ask an Aging Hipster by Strong ***And Our Comics section*** =20 --"Except for most of this work being silent, I=B9m tempted to call it =8Cpoetr= y comics.=B9 That=B9s not quite right, although it=B9s reported that in this collection Blutch =8Cjust goes on his nerve.=B9" --from Blutch: France's Edgies= t Comic Artist; Mitchum by Blutch (Editions Corn=E9lius), reviewed by Gary Sullivan ***Art editor Brenda Iijima brings us work from Williamsburg's Lamar Peterson.*** =20 =20 ***Our Poetry section, edited by Laura Elrick and Rodrigo Toscano*** (excerpts from each of this issue's poems below) --Clinton Hill, Brooklyn's Alan Davies with take thrall umberable momenters for or sleight handers sling slormerers --East Greenbush, N.Y.'s Cara Benson with for Joe Brainard I predict hailstorms, maelstroms, and Santa Claus temper tantrums. I predict candy corn shortages. I predict naysayers will fill lobbies and shabby hotels with their rebuttals. I predict emergency rooms will empty themselves into the sarcophagus of the alley cans. I predict Napoleon will be considered overrated. I predict the same for Trump. --Milwaukee's Roberto Harrison with in memory of lama jinpa i keep seeing you in everyone that=B9s why i hate and love the world *And photos from Nathaniel Siegel, Strong, and Yuwadee.* =20 ----- =20 And thanks to our copy editor, Joe Bates. =20 ----- =20 Please patronize our advertisers: =20 ACA Galleries * http://www.acagalleries.com Bowery Poetry Club * http://www.bowerypoetry.com Bowery Women * http://www.myspace.com/bowerywomen ::fait accompli:: * http://www.nickpiombino.blogspot.com/ Litmus Press * http://www.litmuspress.org/ ----- =20 Advertising or donation inquiries can be directed to editor@boogcity.com or by calling 212-842-BOOG (2664) =20 ----- =20 2,250 copies of Boog City are distributed among, and available for free at, the following locations: =20 MANHATTAN =20 *THE EAST VILLAGE* =20 Acme Underground =20 Angelika Film Center and Caf=E9 Anthology Film Archives Bluestockings =20 Bowery Poetry Club=20 Caf=E9 Pick Me Up Cakeshop Lakeside Lounge =20 Life Caf=E9 Living Room Mission Caf=E9 =20 Nuyorican Poets Caf=E9 Pianos =20 The Pink Pony =20 St. Mark's Books =20 St. Mark's Church =20 Shakespeare & Co. =20 Sidewalk Caf=E9 =20 Sunshine Theater =20 Trash and Vaudeville =20 *OTHER PARTS OF MANHATTAN* =20 Hotel Chelsea Poets House =20 =20 BROOKLYN =20 *WILLIAMSBURG* =20 Academy Records Bliss Caf=E9 Galapagos =20 Sideshow Gallery =20 Soundfix/Fix Cafe=20 Spoonbill & Sugartown Supercore Caf=E9 =20 *GREENPOINT* (available early next week) =20 Greenpoint Coffee House Lulu's=20 Photoplay Thai Cafe =20 The Pencil Factory =20 -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 09:24:04 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Beachy-Quick,Dan" Subject: Re: the five friends and five enemies of writing Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 I'll have to ponder . . . Personally, I think Doubt and Aversion (i.e. Thor= eau'a main characteristics as a writer, and certainly not an impemdiment, b= ut a help, to his ________________________________________ From: UB Poetics discussion group [POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf = Of Diane DiPrima [ddiprima@EARTHLINK.NET] Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 1:33 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: the five friends and five enemies of writing Thanks for these! Diane di Prima > From: Gabriel Gudding > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:32:27 -0500 > To: > Subject: the five friends and five enemies of writing > > aside from you and me, they are listed here: > __________________________________ > http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com > ---------------------------------- > Gabriel, enemy of writing ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 23:34:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: MTV laureate: Amiri Baraka (though he'd probably not be allowed) In-Reply-To: <286147.8389.qm@web52409.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On Aug 30, 2007, at 11:29 AM, steve russell wrote: > Baraka before it's too late. He is, let's face it, old. Yikes. I must be old too, then. G. Harry Bowering, OC Never appreciated Jo Stafford. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 23:43:15 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: "Arabic as a Terrorist Language" and "National Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week" coming to 200 Campuses in USA in October In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Well, you are right. But the idea of English as the national language of America is funny. Most of America speaks Spanish, Portuguese, French, Dutch, etc. On Aug 30, 2007, at 3:42 PM, David Chirot wrote: > The First Amendment is the first "security" and Protection Under the > Law Americans and residents in USA are supposed to have, yet as the > translation of the Guantanamo poetry shows, there is a rampant > suspicion that foreign languages, especially Arabic, are automatically > "suspect" the moment they are spoken, written, read and taught. (The > huge storm over an Arabic language school in NYC for example.) > Fear of illegal aliens from Mexico especially is in part due to a > fear for the "National Language of America" (English) having to rub > shoulders with a rapidly growing number of Spanish and bi-lingual > citizens if the illegals "are allowed to have their way/say." > Now, coming to a campus near you in October, will be National > Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week--further coupling Islam and Terror and > adding on the Arabic language for ever increased vigilance and > "Homeland Security." > The War on Terror turning into a War on a Language becomes a > threat to Freedom of Speech. Ironically, insanely, rather than > simply fighting the War "over there" so it will not come "here," the > War against "the Arabic-Islamo-Terrorism" World (all three being > equated as one) is being brought straight into the American schools, > Universities, Campuses as well as two in Israel. > Suddenly Hate Speech is "defending" the country against Freedom > of Speech. > Welcome to the Land of the Brave & the Home of the Free. > > > > http://davidbaptistechirot.blogspot.com/2007/08/war-on-terror-in- > american-schools-and.html > > "Guide" and introduction plus list of the 200 US and 2 Israeli > participating campuses: > http://www.terrorismawareness.org/islamo-fascism/49/a-students-guide- > to-hosting-islamo-fascism-awareness-week/ > --- > "Arabic is the Language of Terrorism" > http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=30&ItemID=13639 > > George Harry Bowering Has not read Tolstoy. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 12:59:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: laura hinton Subject: poet's theater panel proposal -- please circulate MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline CALL FOR PAPERS for "Contemporary Poet's Theater: L-A-N-G-U-A-G-E and Beyond": A Proposed Panel for the 20th Century Literature Conference in Louisville (February 2008) In recent contemporary poetics, the term "poet's theater" has become linked with the "Language" group of writers and often directors of poetry-plays produced as low-budget staged performances in the late 1970's and '80's. Today, new productions of classic "Language"-oriented poet's theater abound, by writers including Leslie Scalapino, Carla Harryman, Charles Bernstein, among others. Yet there are also many contemporary playwrights in other settings doing work that is not only aesthetically related to "Language"-oriented theater, but which might be productively critiqued in terms articulated by Language writers and others writing on avant-garde performance art. These "other" are theater writers are those who are engaging in "poet's theater," by virtue of treating a written text as an act of performance -- the drama thus emerging not from some external "signified," but from within the "signifier," the poetic language, itself. This panel is an attempt to ground a definition of the term "poet's theater" in a potentially expanding notion of the contemporary working scene of today's American theater, both through underfinanced smal= l public venues (like cafes or coffee houses or art-spaces) or in venues lik= e Off-Broadway. And it is an attempt to look at what the embodied stage and poetic experiment have to offer one another. It is a given that contemporary- American poet's theater (which this panel-coordinator views a= s a major but often overlooked postmodern genre that perhaps defies many attempts to identify and categorize it) stands well outside the established American "realist" theater tradition of, say, O'Neill, Miller, or Tennessee Williams. The poet's theater we speak of is more likely to be influenced, instead, by early 20th-century European experimentalists of the stage, like Brecht, Beckett, and Artaud. American modernists, of course =96 like Stein, Pound, and Djuna Barnes =96 wrote po= etry plays that defied the conventions of narrative drama. However, the focus o= f this panel will examines their more contemporary inheritors. We will consider for the proposed panel any papers about works and theater practitioners who have emerged during or since the early stages of Language writing (for example, John Ashbery, Bernstein, Ntozake Shange, Harryman, Scalapino, Amiri Baraka, Cherie Moraga, Tracie Morris, as well as "non-poet= " playwrights like Adrienne Kennedy, Anna Deavere Smith, or Suzan-Lori Parks -- the latter of whose works are based in a non-linear use of lyrical language and the performativity of individual and community speech acts.) Please send a 250-300-word abstract and title describing your proposed topic no later than SEPTEMBER 12, by e-mail only, to Laura Hinton, Professor of English, The City College of New York (laurahinton12@gmail.com). Accompany this abstrac= t with the following cover-sheet information needed per conference requirements: * Name * Address (preferably home) * E-mail address * Telephone number * Academic affiliation (if applicable) * Personal biographical note, (100-150 words) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 11:35:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Saturday in Baltimore: Lame and Narrow Event In-Reply-To: <8C9B9FF38337457-A10-F84@webmail-db07.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Gina Myers Date: Aug 31, 2007 8:48 AM Hi everyone, This Saturday, that is tomorrow, I am going to be co-hosting an event in Baltimore with Justin Sirois of Narrow House Press. For the occasion I am publishing two new chapbooks: Matt Hart's Simply Rocket & Arlo Quint's Photogenic Memory. The chapbooks will be available for sale at the reading and on the Lame House site (http://lamehouse.blogspot.com) sometime next week. Here is the reading info (there is also a flyer attached): The i.e. reading series Saturday, September 1st, 8PM CARRIAGE HOUSE 2225 Hargrove Street Baltimore, MD. 21218 410-727-1953 BYOB Justin Sirois of Narrow House Recordings & Gina Myers of Lame House Press have organized & will host. Readers: M. Magnus, Cathy Eisenhower, Jamie Gaughran-Perez, Dustin Williamson, Matt Hart & Arlo Quint Bios: M. Magnus lives and writes in Alexandria, Virginia. His book Verb Sap is forthcoming from Narrow House Print in fall 2007. Also, this fall, his writings will be featured in the October 28th premiere of Gina Biver's new music/new media ensemble SPLASH at the Gildenhorn/ Speisman Center for the Arts in Rockville, Maryland. Cathy Eisenhower is a poet-librarian living in Washington, DC. She runs the interrupting cow, a chapbook press, and translates the work of Argentine poet Diana Bellessi. Her first full-length collection, clearing without reversal , comes out with Edge Books in 2007, and she co-curates the In Your Ear reading series at the District of Columbia Arts Center. Jamie Gaughran-Perez lives in Lauraville, Baltimore and works down in Washington, DC. He edits and publishes Rock Heals, a Narrow House weekly with the help of the rest of the group. He's published poems in various journals (/Fence/, /Outlet/, /Untitled/, /Scout/, /Lipstick Eleven/, and others) and the recent Baltimore anthology /Octopus Dream/. Dustin Williamson is the author of Cab Ass'n (Lame House), Gorilla Dust (Open 24 Hours Press), and Exhausted Grunts (forthcoming from Cannibal). He ocassionally publishes Rust Buckle chapbooks and magazines. Matt Hart is the author of Who's Who Vivid and three chapbooks, Revelated, Sonnet and Simply Rocket. He edits Forklift, Ohio: A Journal of Poetry, Cooking & Light Industrial Safety. Arlo Quint is the author of Photogenic Memory (Lame House Press 2007) & Days On End (Open 24 Hours Press 2006). His poems have recently appeared in Puppyflowers, Cannibal & The Recluse. He is recently married, recently returned from Eastern Europe & recently hired by The Poetry Project at St. Mark's Church in NYC. Cheers, Gina --- Reviews of I'M THE MAN WHO LOVES YOU Matt Hart / Coldfront Magazine http://reviews.coldfrontmag.com/2007/06/im_the_man_who_.html Mark Lamoureux / BOOG City http://static.scribd.com/docs/kflyu7ufa6w1n.swf Nick Piombino / fait accompli http://nickpiombino.blogspot.com/2007_03_18_archive.html Thomas Fink / Galatea Resurrects http://galatearesurrection6.blogspot.com/2007/05/im-man-who-loves-you-by-amy-king.html ~ Recent Review of ANTIDOTES FOR AN ALIBI Adam Fieled / Stoning the Devil http://adamfieled.blogspot.com/2007/05/book-review-amy-king-antidote-for-alibi.html ~ What To Wear During An Orange Alert? http://wearduringorangealert.blogspot.com/2007/07/writers-corner_12.html ~ http://www.amyking.org/blog ---- --------------------------------- Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 11:45:08 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: the five friends and five enemies of writing In-Reply-To: <1dec21ae0708301624l5ae52e19s70086c6030fc2418@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed nifty! Thanks! hm. I think... On Thu, 30 Aug 2007, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > Jason, > > You remind me of my readings of "The Pilgrim's Progress." > > Murat > > > On 8/30/07, Jason Quackenbush wrote: >> >> I agree with most of your enemies, but in my experience your friends >> Effort Concentration and Awareness are like the salesmen of the enemies, >> pushing them on us like a drug. "Hey kid," says Awareness, "Howzabout you >> and me go over here and smoke us some doubt." "Good idea," says >> Concentration, "and while we're at it I've got some liquid Craving we can >> drop, and I'm sure my buddy Awareness has some powdered A&A we could snort." >> "A&A" says Effort. "What's that?" "It's a speedball of Aversion and >> Agitation, that gives rise to Apathy which is almost as good as being >> blissed out on Sloth, but cheaper." >> >> to counter this effect, I have learned to make a friend of the wu-wei of >> writing. of writing without writing. not writing effortlessly, not exerting >> oneself to effortlessness, but rather through a holistic cultivation of the >> sloth alkaloid which can be profitably extracted from sick days, three day >> weekends, and late nights watching DVDs of old movies. A much maligned but >> endlessly useful entheogen, I have found that sloth, if not abused, can be >> used to transcend the efforts of Effort and Co. to move into a mystical >> state of notwriting in which my best writing is always produced. >> >> Of course, it's difficult to be in this state, and difficult to move away >> from it, because again in my experience, the more you try not to write the >> less writing actually gets done. Note that this is not counter intuitive. >> >> The end method, if it can be called such a thing, is to attempt to >> cultivate an activity in which one is neither writing nor notwriting. It is >> in this state that notwriting will begin, so long as you don't overdose on >> sloth and unintentionally give way to intention. >> >> The danger exists, of course, of becoming a sloth junkie, and those of us >> who have learned how to ride that particular horse have all fallen by the >> wayside from time to time, spending months, sometimes years strung out on >> the stuff. But then, that's when you really have to turn to Aversion and >> Agitation to straighten out and get back on the path... >> >> On Thu, 30 Aug 2007, Gabriel Gudding wrote: >> >>> aside from you and me, they are listed here: >>> __________________________________ >>> http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com >>> ---------------------------------- >>> Gabriel, enemy of writing >>> >> > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 14:05:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: MTV laureate In-Reply-To: <135610.10702.qm@web52410.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i always thought ashbery was for superbrains i.e. not me; then i had a student, kind of a stoner, who never said anything but in the journal i had them keep for class would profess his love for john ashbery and his desire to drop out of society, sit around and read ashbery. he had also fallen in love w/ a girl by the end of class, and so it became: drop out of school, sit around being in love and reading john ashbery. he didn't mention any spliff, but i kinda inferred that. i never thought of ashbery as seriously countercultural or appealing to youth until then. steve russell wrote: > i'm back and forth with Ashberry. sometimes i find his stuff to be little more than day dream dribble, and too Godddamn cute for their own good. but the long poems: Flow Chart, Self Portrait, 3 poems, keep me coming back. If Ash isn't major, he's awfully innovative. > > Barry Schwabsky wrote: > "Gabba gabba, we accept you, one of us." --The Ramones, after Tod Browning's "Freaks" > > Actually, if Harold Bloom were reading this, he would probably point out that unfortunately, most of us are just one of him. (Ashbery, that is.) > > charles alexander wrote: > yes, and isn't he really just one of us? > > charles > > At 04:31 PM 8/30/2007, you wrote: > >> The longer this goes on, the more John Ashbery starts to sound like God. >> >> Elizabeth Kate Switaj >> www.elizabethkateswitaj.net >> >> On 8/31/07, Jason Quackenbush wrote: >> >>> hm, talk about shameful fannish paranoia. I'm going to pretend that mr. >>> ashbery is unaware of the existence of this list in order to >>> >> prevent my self >> >>> from constantly thinking "I better make sure this sounds good, i don't want >>> Ashbery (or anyone else for that matter) to think I'm an idiot." >>> >>> actually, that might be a good thing. one should probably always consider >>> what one is about to say is going to make one look like an imbecile. I've >>> never really had that particular gag reflex, unfortunately. >>> >>> On Thu, 30 Aug 2007, Barry Schwabsky wrote: >>> >>> >> What.....if......he's......even......reading.......this.......list.......now! >> >>>> Jason Quackenbush wrote: That's an amazing quote. Ah, to >>>> >>> be read by John Ashbery! Far and above the new smartass answer I'm going to >>> have the next time someone at a poetry slam gets bewildered and asks me who >>> I'm supposed to be writing for, the fanboy thrill I get at speculating "I >>> wonder if Ashbery has ever stumbled across one of my measly >>> publications?!?!" is a fantastic reminder that the point of writing poetry >>> is not publication, money, awards or tenured professorships, nor is it >>> therapy, making political statements, or developing your spirituality. I >>> suppose poetry can be used for all of those things, but i think when it >>> comes down to it the point, for most of us who take the writing seriously, >>> is to be read by intelligent, sympathetic eyes. Personally, I think that's >>> as admirable as goals come. >>> >>>> On Wed, 29 Aug 2007, Aryanil Mukherjee wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> That's a laudably bold and clear stand for a great poet any language >>>>> >>> should be >>> >>>>> proud of. >>>>> I remember, you wrote - "John Ashbery is America's greatest living >>>>> >>> poet, he >>> >>>>> is also greatly misunderstood". >>>>> >>>>> Whether Ashbery and MTV go together is a mute point, but the "old folks >>>>> can also write" verbatim confounded me. Poets aren't soccer players, I >>>>> always thought. There are scores of old poets, both men and women, >>>>> that I can think of in a large number of languages around the world who >>>>> have written/write competent (if not good or new) poetry. Adonis, for >>>>> >>> example, >>> >>>>> at 75+ is an outstanding example - a probable Nobel candidate for 2008. >>>>> >>>>> Ferlinghetti still writes good poetry (if not inspiring) at 88. So does >>>>> >>> Snyder. >>> >>>>> There are others, don't forget Diane di Prima. >>>>> >>>>> I'd like to quote Ashbery here on the challenges and virtues of older >>>>> >>> poets >>> >>>>> from a John Tranter (& Jacket Magazine) interview of JA from 1988 - >>>>> >>>>> "Also I think the fact that the older one gets - for many people, at >>>>> >>> least - >>> >>>>> the more prolific one gets, realising there aren't the oceans of time >>>>> >>> that seem >>> >>>>> to be stretching ahead when one was young. And one learns to use it, >>>>> >>> and >>> >>>>> realise how precious it is." >>>>> >>>>> I have been working with John Ashbery for about three years now >>>>> on a self-funded translation (into Bengali) project which I recently >>>>> >>> concluded >>> >>>>> with an interview (to appear in Kaurab, September 07) , the Bengali >>>>> >>> version >>> >>>>> of which is due to appear in Kabisammelan, a poetry-monthly published >>>>> from Kolkata, India. Here is a little sneak preview from that interview >>>>> >>> - a >>> >>>>> response >>>>> which I liked a lot...see that as exemplary for younger poets like us - >>>>> >>> when >>> >>>>> asked >>>>> about if he still reads his contemporaries, JA reflects - >>>>> >>>>> "I don't read the work of my friends anymore (smiles)...specially my >>>>> >>> own work, >>> >>>>> which I don't read at all. So I don't have much idea as to what New >>>>> >>> York School >>> >>>>> poetry is like. Basically, of late I like to read the more young >>>>> >>> contemporary >>> >>>>> poets, many of them have been influenced by me and who have then gone >>>>> >>> on to >>> >>>>> write their own and are now influencing me. " >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I'll put my hands together for such an "old folk". >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Aryanil Mukherjee >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Webster Schultz" >>>>> >>>>> To: >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 2:15 PM >>>>> Subject: MTV laureate >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> There have been plenty of women poet laureates in recent years, among >>>>>> >>> them >>> >>>>>> Rita Dove, >>>>>> Louise Gluck, and others. What there have not been are gay or lesbian >>>>>> poets. So I stand >>>>>> in support of John Ashbery for MTV poet laureate! Plus he's a >>>>>> >>> wonderful >>> >>>>>> poet. >>>>>> >>>>>> Susan M. Schultz >>>>>> >>>>>> http://tinfishpress.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: >>>>>> 269.12.12/979 - Release Date: 8/29/2007 8:21 PM >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> > > charles alexander / chax press > > fold the book inside the book keep it open always > read from the inside out speak then > > Chax Press > 520-620-1626 (studio) > 520-275-4330 (cell) > chax@theriver.com > chax.org > 650 E. 9th St. > Tucson, AZ 85705 > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 12:21:53 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jennifer Karmin Subject: September 8th: A Meditation on New Orleans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit JOIE DE VIVRE: A MEDITATION ON NEW ORLEANS, KATRINA, & THE US With music, visual art, poetry, dance, film, performance, a gumbo cooking demonstration, and New Orleans inspired refreshments Saturday, September 8th 7pm-2am Quennect4 2716 W. North Avenue Chicago, IL $15 suggested donation $12 for students & seniors (pay what you can) Presented by Striding Lion InterArts Workshop Conceived & curated by Michelle Mashon http://www.myspace.com/joiedevivre2007 SCHEDULE: 7-8pm: Gumbo cooking demonstration and discussion with New Orleans' chef Matt Mashon. 8-midnight: Films and multimedia by Tim Best, Julie Downey, Byron Durham, Brandon Hutchinson, Roxana Walker-Canton, and Tina Morton. Live music by Tovi Khali, Low Down Brass Band, and Parallel Process. Contemporary dance and butoh works by Core Project, RTG Dance, Striding Lion InterArts Workshop, and Wannapa P-Eubanks. Poetry by Tara Betts as read by Chicago Def Poet Kristiana Colon, an electronica operetta by Mars Caulton, and an interactive text-sound composition by Jennifer Karmin. Midnight-2am: DJ Protman performing a live mix inspired by the history and music of New Orleans. Visulal art on display all night: New Orleans and Chicago artists Melissa and Lindsay Cook with Philip Matsikas, Louise Le Bourgeois, Rita Posselt, Gerald Haessig, Luz-Marie Lopez, Lindsey Meyers, Tasheka Arceneaux Michelle Mashon, Jeff St. Romain, Karen Crain, Mark Grote, Natalie Sciortino, Mark Wallent and Samia Saleem's book "Degrees of Separation." All visual art in the exhibition is for sale, with 100% of sales going to the artists. For more info contact: 773.983.0626 mmashon@gmail.com http://www.stridinglion.org ____________________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 14:55:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Hadbawnik Subject: front porch online journal seeks submissions for FALL 07 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Texas State University | English Department | 601 University Drive | San Marcos, Texas | 78666 *Front Porch * (http://www.frontporchjournal.com), the online literary journal of Texas State University's MFA program, seeks submissions for its FALL and WINTER 2007 issues. Since our debut in November 2006, we have published the work of several well-known writers such as Charles D'Ambrosio, Roddy Doyle, Heather McHugh, Eleanor Wilner, C.D. Wright, and Charles Wright. In addition, we are able to draw from the extensive audiovisual archive at the Katherine Anne Porter House to provide media content alongside poetry, fiction, nonfiction, book reviews, and interviews. Recently, we've featured video of Carole Maso and Yiyun Li. If you are interested, please visit our site and follow the online submission process. Obviously, I would extend the same advice to contributors that all editors do -- read the work that's already been published to get a sense of what we're looking for. By the same token, don't assume that your work is too experimental or adventurous for us; as the new poetry ed, I'm looking for new, original work that pushes the envelope, and I promise to give everything a fair read. David Hadbawnik, Poetry Editor Front Porch www.frontporchjournal.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 11:37:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tribbey, Hugh R." Subject: CFS: Experimental Writing & Aesthetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please Post and Announce =20 Call for Papers: Experimental Writing and Aesthetics =20 Abstract/Proposals by 15 November 2007 =20 =20 Southwest/Texas Popular & American Culture Associations 29th Annual Conference Albuquerque, NM, February 13-16, 2008 Hyatt Regency Albuquerque 330 Tijeras Albuquerque, NM 87102 Phone: 1.505.842.1234 Fax: 1.505.766.6710 http://albuquerque.hyatt.com =20 Panels are now forming on topics related to Experimental Writing and Aesthetics in such areas as the aesthetics of experimental writing in any genre or in multi-genre/multi-media works including digital and graphic compositions involving language, the poetics of performance of experimental compositions, critical studies of experimental writers, etc. =20 Creative writers interested in the selective creative writing readings panels should contact Jerry Bradley, Creative Writing Readings Chair, via < http://www.swtexaspca.org > in the early fall. =20 Scholars, teachers, professionals, writers not affiliated with academic institutions, and others interested in experimental writing are encouraged to participate. Graduate students are also particularly welcome with award opportunities for best graduate papers. =20 If you wish to organize your own panel, I will be happy to facilitate your scheduling needs. =20 Send abstracts, papers, or proposals for panels with your email address by 15 November 2006: =20 Hugh Tribbey, Experimental Writing and Aesthetics Chair Email: htribbey@ecok.edu =20 Mailing Address: Dr. Hugh Tribbey Department of English and Languages East Central University 1100 E. 14th St. Ada, OK 74820 Phone: 580-559-5524; Fax: 580-436-3329 =20 Conference Website: < http://www.h-net.org/~swpca/index.html > (updated regularly)=20 =20 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 16:00:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Simon DeDeo Subject: new on rhubarb is susan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Two things this week -- "the youth of today": some responses and engagement with Mark Wallace and K. Lorraine Graham about what the kids are up to: http://rhubarbissusan.blogspot.com/2007/08/youth-of-today.html More updates to the "end of wikipedia as we know it" post, which has occasioned a small avalanche of denials and obfuscations from Jimbo Wales, wikipedia administrators and trustees of the foundation board. This is a serious matter even if you're not a wikipedia dork. If you've ever read or edited a wikipedia page it *will* affect you directly. As far as I can tell, only Chris Lott and I have blogged this; I encourage you to take a look and spread the word. http://rhubarbissusan.blogspot.com/2007/08/end-of-wikipedia-as-we-know-it.html Thanks for tuning in, Simon ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 17:46:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: Five Enemies, In-Reply-To: <1dec21ae0708310610m2b6aab20wfe67d905d126ea57@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Just a minor point, not panic, perhaps a feeling that the end of the world as at nigh, that we're on the brink of further mass extinctions - but not panic, there's far too much control in what I do, it might not show, but as in Poe there's that composition. They're not around panic at least for me, they're around a kind of fulcrum related to foundation of language, sexuality, world, real, more or less ontology. There's no paralysis, there never has been, since there's no hysteria, no wandering, but learning how to see. It's a minor point, but for me critical, just as not reading my work autobiographically is equally critical, although there are elements of autobio present as there are in everything, including Bohm for example (whose hidden variables might well relate to seams of coal not far from where he and I were born). - Alan On Fri, 31 Aug 2007, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > Alan, > > Yours is a poetics of panics, as I think many of your most vibrant pieces > are around panic. > > What is that sword's edge where panic leads to energy and not paralysis? > > The same way, what is the distinction between sloth and negative capability? > I, on my part, these days I am full of negative capability. If it goes on > another day, it'll be sloth. > > In those five enemies, isn't Gabe not referring to the "internal State"? > > Ciao, > > Murat > > > On 8/30/07, Alan Sondheim < sondheim@panix.com> wrote: >> >> Five Enemies >> >> Doubt: Three kinds of doubt: >> >> Doubt in oneself; doubt in the efficacy and usefulness of writing in >> general; doubt in the writing project before one. >> >>>> It's the opposite for me; if I didn't doubt almost to the point of >> annihilation, I couldn't work at all. It's intrinsic in the process. >> >> Aversion (ill will, anger): I dont want to do this. I dont want to write >> right now. Writing is stupid. This project is stupid. I dont feel like >> writing right now. I hate writing in general. I hate this whole book idea. >> This task is boring. I dont like this aspect of that. I dont like that >> aspect of this. I dont like, I dont like, I dont like. >> >>>> The same. As PIL says Anger is an energy. I need it. >> >> Craving: Two kinds. >> >> Extrinsic: Desiring to do something else. Desiring a state that is not >> present. I want to do something else, watch a movie, I want to go >> bicycling instead of writing. >> >>>> But I do! Writing is too difficult and the sooner I get it sent off, >> the sooner I can breathe again. >> >> Intrinsic: Craving an outcome from the writing itself. I want to have this >> outcome from this writing NOW or SOON or like next week, I want to write a >> masterpiece now, I want to write a great line now, I want to write a great >> >> paragraph now. And we become disappointed because we inevitably crave more >> than we acquire. >> >>>> I absolutely believe this. I want to write masterpieces / mistress- >> pieces, period. Anything else, I lose energy. I might live in disappoint- >> ment but the craving drives me. >> >> Agitation (restlessness, worry): This is boring. Im bored. Gyawd, Ive got >> to write ALL THESE words??! >> >>>> And agitation, yes, writing in a state of fury or despair or the sense >> of total destruction, yes. >> >> Sloth, Laziness: General lassitude leading to inaction and inanition. >> Nothing written, nothing discovered, nothing made. >> >>>> This is the only one I agree on; if you don't have the energy, you're >> silent, which is not necessarily a bad thing and might lead to something >> terrific day after tomorrow. >> >> For me there are NO enemies to writing except for internal or external >> States that prohibit taking up the pen or keyboard. >> >> - Alan >> > > ======================================================================= Work on YouTube, blog at http://nikuko.blogspot.com . Tel 718-813-3285. Webpage directory http://www.asondheim.org . Email: sondheim@panix.com. http://clc.as.wvu.edu:8080/clc/Members/sondheim for theory; also check WVU Zwiki, Google for recent. 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