========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 22:02:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: CA Conrad Subject: an interview with poet KEN RUMBLE on depression /\\///\\\\/////\\\\\\///////\\\\\\\\///////// MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline an interview with poet KEN RUMBLE on depression /\\///\\\\/////\\\\\\///////\\\\\\\\///////// read the interview here: http://phillysound.blogspot.com/2007_11_01_archive.html Many thanks to Ken for opening his life to us, CAConrad ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 00:11:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Morgan Schuldt Subject: Verge Now Available from Free Verse Editions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Verge, the debut collection of poems by Morgan Lucas Schuldt, is now availa= ble from Free Verse Editions at http://parlorpress.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=3D170 Here's what some poets are saying about the poems: In the tradition of Jacques Roubaud=92s Some Thing Black and Stan Brakhage= =92s The Act of Seeing with One=92s Own Eyes, Morgan Lucas Schuldt=92s Verg= e is a concise and unsettling ride along the boundary between life and death. Through careful lyric gestures and Joycian guttural utterances, Schuldt=92s poems linger at the verges of the body and the breath, all along reminding the reader that the language of poetry depends upon our =93meat-leased=94 fragile corporeal forms. =97Lisa Jarnot With its ceasele= ss invention, root-play, and wit, Morgan Lucas Schuldt's Verge paces a vaul= ting "overtakelessness." It is a fast shining careen, affirming "meanings = sing us" in its swervings. =97Karen Volkman For a book of beautiful sounds, this book knows many things. It knows that in our engagement with mortality, joy and what we are "merely" must win out over all of the seductive illusions. Schuldt writes his way into the poetic record through a rich lexical pond (Hopkins, Woolf, Celan). Here phonemes break to refine, twist to fly. =97Barbara Cully http://morganlucasschuldt.blogspot.com/ _________________________________________________________________ Put your friends on the big screen with Windows Vista=AE + Windows Live=99. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/shop/specialoffers.mspx?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_C= PC_MediaCtr_bigscreen_102007= ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 15:23:53 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard McLean Subject: the visual poetics of ego and soul... Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed hi list, my name is richard mclean, who has written a worldwide selling autobiography on my experience with schizophrenia. (www.recoverednotcured.com) i am also a public speaker, and visual artist, and have worked in newsppers all my life as an illustrator. i have finally accomplished my dream...to transpose my 'visual poetry', into a book, than i'm inviting submissions of reflections on the work for when it finally gets published. see the book directly at this link ad a PDF: http://www.tradebit.com/filedetail.php/2366954 please share your thoughts and consider a response to be published. the book will be available worldwide. or, just go to www.richiemclean.com. thanks for reading this, best wishes, Richard McLean ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 21:31:41 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andy Gricevich Subject: Re: i'm not there MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I think it's one of the best films I've ever seen, certainly U.S.-made (I already knew that Haynes was the best U.S. filmmaker). Every shot is thoughtfully, beautifully composed, and the acting is magnificent. It's surprising, on this list of all places, to find comments treating the film as if it's a Dylan bio. It is partially that, of course, but it's structured more like a Dylan song than a biography--almost a verse-like nature to the different sections. Characters closer to and farther from the tenuous "reality" recur or drift in and out; just as in the songs, bits of the outside leak in: not only the extra-cinematic outside (the war, Nixon, SoCal born-again culture) but the cinematic outside (Fellini's and Godard's work of the same period as "Blonde on Blonde" as well as the Beatles' "Help," but also the traces of Fassbinder that are always visible in Haynes' work) and the "outside" of 20th-century American mythologies (the hobo and labor stories, etc.). The richly deserved praise for Cate Blanchett misses the point in its exclusive focus on the most literally biographical thread in the film (it should be a hint that even her character gets a fictional name, one that combines Quinn the Eskimo with Jude (Judas)). The movie takes Dylan's own repeated reinvention of himself in accordance with his most beloved myths as a structural basis that it expands to a larger scale, reinventing the reinventions themselves (so that Gere's Billy the Kid is also Dylan from the motorcycle accident to the present, socially reclusive (even on an endless tour); the actor character is a literalization of Dylan's treatment of previous personae as mere puppets, laying bare his narcissism, selfishness and exhaustion by embodying them as a character; "Arthur Rimbaud" is a series of aphoristic Dylanisms drawn out by strange interrogators). One of my favorite aspects of the film is its self-consciousness about quotation (from Dylan's interviews and songs and from other films, as well as--especially--of all sorts of American archetypal stories) and artifice, without any of the postmodern irony, the "fear of actually meaning it," one finds in a lot of self-conscious contemporary narrative art. There's simultaneously a "hands-off" aspect to the presentation (the gorgeous surreal naturalism of the Gere sequences and the church scene that's allowed to speak for itself, without any Christopher Guest-style condescension) and an acknowledgment of the fact and power of telling--a way of presenting that amplifies strangeness while simultaneously acting as if it is, or might as well be, perfectly realistic. My three cents. --Andy --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 23:39:18 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: Re: picture of giant chipmunk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gwyn, Yo I wasn't leading you on because, okay: inside the chipmunk costume is in fact a real, giant chipmunk. guh and christina lovin, no i hear you: normal is like the "madison" of illinois. trippy place. it's pretty cool here. we're expecting an ice storm tonight. and were just hanging out after kristin prevallet's reading and there was almond cake. will post pictures to blog and some fine audio file of kristin's reading. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 01:41:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: short poem in the long haul MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit brevitas gotta be a member look em up on line and clwnwar it's under 20 words actually On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 21:16:20 +0100 cralan kelder writes: > follow-up on subject of shorter poetry publications, what else is out > there? > > What i wanted to say about noon is that a lot of dedicated > practitioners of > the form send their work there, as far as I can tell its one of the > preferred destinations at the moment for poems between 1 and 20 > lines. > the question is, what other mags are around that work with short > poetry? > > i can think of Still from the UK, no longer publishing. > I havent seen Tundra or Hummingbird, but also havent seen > announcements of > new issues for those mags recently. > > There¹s Island, also from the UK, going strong, which features many > one line > poems. > > > any others? > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 02:08:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Fw: Fw: readings in san francisco area for whitehead, zosche, nicosia and dalachinsky MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit dalachinsky gets josephine milkes oakland pen award along with will alexander and others Subject: readings in san francisco area for whitehead, zosche, nicosia and dalachinsky December 6th-- 630 pm - Bird and Beckett Bookstore, San Francisco December 7th- 7- 9 pm Mill Valley Book Depot, Mill Valley December 8th-- 2 pm - 5 pm PEN Awards Banquet, Oakland (Steve Dalachinsky, Will Alexander and others being honored) December 10th-- 6- 9pmNorth Beach Poetry-and-Music Series - cafee Greco 423 columbus ave San Francisco ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 02:05:37 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: pics & audio from kristin prevallet reading MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com/ normal, illinois ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 15:48:20 +0100 Reply-To: argotist@fsmail.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Side Subject: Carrier of the Seed out as ebook Comments: To: British Poetics , Poetryetc , Womens Poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My poem 'Carrier of the Seed' is now out as a free ebook with Blazevox. The= following people have been kind enough to allow me to quote their impressi= ons of it: Jake Berry: =E2=80=9CExcellent, mythopoeic, my kind of stuff.=E2=80=9D Marjorie Perloff: =E2=80=9CIt=E2=80=99s very striking. The reader is propel= led forward, thematically and mythologically. The result is extremely inter= esting.=E2=80=9D Hank Lazer: =E2=80=9CAn engaging avalanche of a poem, and I like the collis= ion of various registers of language throughout the poem. Overall, a feel = of contemporary myth-dream propelled narrative to it. A truly contemporary= quest.=E2=80=9D John M. Bennett: =E2=80=9CSay, this is an excellent piece.=E2=80=9D Michael Rothenberg: =E2=80=9CI like it a lot.=E2=80=9D You can download it at: http://www.blazevox.org/ and=20 http://www.blazevox.org/ebook.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 00:48:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stuart Ross Subject: Re: short poem in the long haul In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable I've done three issues of Peter O'Toole: The Magazine of One-Line Poems. Contributors have included Bill Zavatsky, David McFadden, Kim Bernstein, Joel Dailey, Lynn Crosbie, Camille Martin, and Ben Hamper. The mag was inspired by Zavatsky's Roy Rogers. Stuart Ross Toronto On 11/30/07 3:16 PM, "cralan kelder" wrote: > follow-up on subject of shorter poetry publications, what else is out the= re? >=20 > What i wanted to say about noon is that a lot of dedicated practitioners = of > the form send their work there, as far as I can tell its one of the > preferred destinations at the moment for poems between 1 and 20 lines. > the question is, what other mags are around that work with short poetry? >=20 > i can think of Still from the UK, no longer publishing. > I havent seen Tundra or Hummingbird, but also havent seen announcements o= f > new issues for those mags recently. > =20 > There=B9s Island, also from the UK, going strong, which features many one l= ine > poems. >=20 >=20 > any others? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 07:13:52 -0800 Reply-To: litsam@sbcglobal.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sam Subject: New book by Sam Pereira MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tebot Bach has just published = A Caf=E9 in Boca, the newest collection of poetry from Sam Pereira. It is available both from the publisher=92s web site and Small Press = Distribution . Future readings will also be announced = here as they are arranged. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 12:17:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "St. Thomasino" Subject: foley=zukofsky=bernstein Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed . http://www.poetrybay.com/fall2007/foley1.html Jack Foley has a review of the new LOUIS ZUKOFSKY: SELECTED POEMS,=20 EDITED BY CHARLES BERNSTEIN LOUIS ZUKOFSKY: A POET WORTH FIGHTING FOR A REVIEW OF LOUIS ZUKOFSKY: SELECTED POEMS, EDITED BY CHARLES BERNSTEIN (THE LIBRARY OF AMERICA AMERICAN POETS=20 PROJECT) =93Louis Zukofsky=92s work has been edited and selected for the Library = of=20 America=92s American Poetry Project by prominent L=3DA=3DN=3DG=3DU=3DA=3DG= =3DE poet=20 Charles Bernstein, and he has done a superb job.=A0It is no easy task to=20= deal with a writer as enigmatic, even chameleonic as Louis=20 Zukofsky.=A0Zukofsky=92s poetry alone ranges from something like light=20= verse to an immensely complex, dense medium.=A0It operates in both = formal=20 modes and free verse. =93In his introduction to the Selected Poems Charles Bernstein remarks = on=20 =91the intricate patterning of sound that everywhere pervades=20 [Zukofsky=92s] work,=92 on =91the microtonal shifting of vowels,=92 and = goes on=20 to write of =91the syntactic rotation of the same words shifting to=20 different parts of speech.=92=A0 =93Louis Zukofsky: Selected Poems is an absolutely necessary book for=20 anyone seeking to understand twentieth-century American=20 poetry.=A0Zukofsky is a master, but he is definitely a formidable=20 master.=A0Charles Bernstein=92s selection guides us through both = accessible=20 and "difficult" aspects of Zukofsky and does it in a way that=20 constantly sheds light on the work as a whole.=A0Bernstein=92s = introduction=20 is also excellent: well-written and, in general, compelling.=94 http://www.poetrybay.com/fall2007/foley1.html posted by gregory vincent st. thomasino http://eratio.blogspot.com/ e=B7 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 12:28:55 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: i'm not there Comments: To: Andy Gricevich In-Reply-To: 252070.35657.qm@web36201.mail.mud.yahoo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Some of this is, of course, a matter of taste -- I confess that to date I haven't liked anything by Haynes -- I didn't like his ALL THAT HEAVEN ALLOWS and I thought the beautifully shot homage to his own film that appears in this film was rather silly -- Part of the problem for me is that being "structured like a Dylan song" isn't really the problem -- the problem is literalizing what Dylan does -- this didn't work well in Masked & Anonymous and it doesn't work well here, for me -- Rather like that Voices and Visions TV series years ago in which they'd read a poem by Frost and show you a New England wood pile -- geez, you think it's a metaphor? deep! In M&A (and in the Gere section of this film) it's as if they'd made a movie of the cover of the official Basement tapes -- Brakhage films, I'd say, are structured like songs -- and I'd still say that EAT THE DOCUMENT does a better job of this (and works as well if you forget Dylan even exists as an actual person) -- but I recognize that in this instance mine is a minorty opinion -- most critics seem to like it -- most critics liked CRASH and HUSTLE & FLOW (to name two very different films I couldn't abide) -- On Sat, Dec 1, 2007 12:31 AM, Andy Gricevich wrote: > I think it's one of the best films I've ever seen, certainly U.S.-made (I >already knew that Haynes was the best U.S. filmmaker). Every shot is >thoughtfully, beautifully composed, and the acting is magnificent. > >It's surprising, on this list of all places, to find comments treating the film >as if it's a Dylan bio. It is partially that, of course, but it's structured >more like a Dylan song than a biography--almost a verse-like nature to the >different sections. Characters closer to and farther from the tenuous >"reality" recur or drift in and out; just as in the songs, bits of >the outside leak in: not only the extra-cinematic outside (the war, Nixon, >SoCal born-again culture) but the cinematic outside (Fellini's and >Godard's work of the same period as "Blonde on Blonde" as well as the >Beatles' "Help," but also the traces of Fassbinder that are always >visible in Haynes' work) and the "outside" of 20th-century >American mythologies (the hobo and labor stories, etc.). > >The richly deserved praise for Cate Blanchett misses the point in its exclusive >focus on the most literally biographical thread in the film (it should be >a hint that even her character gets a fictional name, one that combines Quinn >the Eskimo with Jude (Judas). The movie takes Dylan's own repeated >reinvention of himself in accordance with his most beloved myths as a >structural basis that it expands to a larger scale, reinventing the >reinventions themselves (so that Gere's Billy the Kid is also Dylan from >the motorcycle accident to the present, socially reclusive (even on an >endless tour); the actor character is a literalization of Dylan's >treatment of previous personae as mere puppets, laying bare his narcissism, >selfishness and exhaustion by embodying them as a character; "Arthur >Rimbaud" is a series of aphoristic Dylanisms drawn out by strange >interrogators). > >One of my favorite aspects of the film is its self-consciousness about >quotation (from Dylan's interviews and songs and from other films, as well >as--especially--of all sorts of American archetypal stories) and artifice, >without any of the postmodern irony, the "fear of actually meaning >it," one finds in a lot of self-conscious contemporary narrative art. > >There's simultaneously a "hands-off" aspect to the presentation >(the gorgeous surreal naturalism of the Gere sequences and the church >scene that's allowed to speak for itself, without any Christopher Guest-style >condescension) and an acknowledgment of the fact and power of telling--a >way of presenting that amplifies strangeness while simultaneously acting as if >it is, or might as well be, perfectly realistic. > >My three cents. > >--Andy > > >--------------------------------- >Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We are enslaved by what makes us free -- intolerable paradox at the heart of speech. --Robert Kelly Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 09:34:02 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve russell Subject: Bob Fosse/Lenny Bruce/Bob Dylan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit How many people on the list are old enough to remember Bob Fosse? & how many among those answering yes are old enough to remember "Lenny?" I attended a blue collar Catholic high school. I had terrible acne. & I was in to Lenny Bruce, not exactly the ticket to success in the repressive Orlando, Florida that I grew up in. I haven't seen the Dylan movie. I trust the comments here far more than I do the crits. It's too bad Fosse isn't around to try his had at a Dylan docu/dram. Lenny was pretty Gddamn decent. I'll never forget Hoffman doing Bruce, intoning that great "To is a preposition, come is a verb" line. --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 20:12:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Re: I'm Not There MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I saw *I'm Not There* last night and liked it very much. But then, unlike Aldon, I've liked the other Todd Haines's films I've seen, the early one on Karen Carpenter and, especially, *Far from Heaven* (his tribute to Douglas Sirk). His new film stuck me as one of the most aesthetically and conceptually original films I've seen recently. It's uneven, sure; but it's exploratory. I'd think of it in conjunction with long-time favorites like *Pennies from Heaven*. The send-ups of the Scorsese documentary were hysterical, bringing to mind The Mighty Wind. And while Baez was great in the Scorsese film, the (Julianne Moore) caricature here was quite funny (and it reminded me of the National Lampoon parody years back: "Pull the Trig-rows Neg-rows, we're with you all the way/ Just across the Bay"). The Pat Garrett/Billy the Kid segments were a bit lugubrious, though I like the Peckinpah film, so I appreciated the gesture. The Allen Ginsberg avatar figure (in the Felliniesque sequence) was interesting maybe most just because it was *there* (and in that segment of the film the Dylan avatar figure was in "being there" mode as well). And as Stephen Baraban notes the (Bunuel-like) sequence before the Christ figure was more substantive. Also, Haines does good by Charlotte Gainsbourg and Richie Havens. I thought the most interesting Brechtian motif was the the preteen African-American hobo/"Woody Guthrie" sequences (as played by Marcus Carl Franklin). As we were leaving the Lincoln Square theater #2, Ed Koch was standing in an alcove, accompanying himself on the Jew's harp. He was singing "Master of War." Off key. Charles Bernstein http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/bernstein/blog ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 14:11:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bobbie Lurie Subject: request from list re: gmail In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" General question to list: if any of you have gmail accts: do you think this link is correct? http://gmail-is-too-creepy.com/ I have had some questions about gmail accts. I've opened/ am wondering if this is more internet fact or fiction? thanks in advance to anyone who knows about this-- bobbi ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aolcmp00050000000003 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 12:20:40 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jennifer Karmin Subject: Seven Corners MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Seven Corners, edited by Steve Halle http://sevencornerspoetry.blogspot.com A sporadically updated, solicitation-based, blog-journal dedicated to publishing poets living in Chicago, native Chicagoans and other quality poets from a liberal Midwestern vicinity. Recent featured poets: Jennifer Karmin Lea Graham Matthew Guenette Melissa Severin Simon DeDeo Tony Trigilio Michael Antonucci Stefania Heim Joel Craig Lina Ramona Vitkauskas ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how. http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 12:42:55 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andy Gricevich Subject: Re: i'm not there MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In reply to Leonard: I couldn't fault anyone for making a politically-motivated critique of U.S. movies, but it does seem like there are better targets. Why pick on Haynes in particular (rather than, say, Tarantino, or Spielberg, or Mel Gibson, or Christopher Guest, or any other crap-vendor... though I could understand a "they're all the same insofar as they don't address the current crisis" stance). In a note on his film "Safe" (a brilliant and searing critique of SoCal class structure, sexism, new age totalitarianism, medicine, and the conditions behind and around environmental illness), Haynes says: "I agree with Fassbinder who said, "revolution doesn't belong on the cinema screen, but outside, in the world". To provide an audience with a solution - to give them the revolution - is to deprive them of the necessity of creating their own. Viewers of film have extraordinary powers: they can make life out of reflections on the wall. Perhaps it's in the spaces we allow them to reflect themselves that films encourage these powers of transformation to continue - even after the movie is over." It's a point that could certainly be abused, but a pretty good one nonetheless. cheers, Andy --------------------------------- Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 16:12:02 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Hadbawnik Subject: announcing new issue of kadar koli MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline hello the second issue of *kadar koli* is now available. it features: Tom Clark * Marcia Roberts * John Phillips * Micah Robbins * Marcus Civin and Mathew Timmons * Amy King * Richard Owens * Kyle Schlesinger * Elizabeth Robinson * C.J. Martin * Mary Burger * Tom Peters * Lauren Dixon * Nick Courtright * and Andrew Neuendorf * ONLY $3 -- CHEAPER THAN a gallon of GAS IN BIG SUR ordering information: www.habenichtpress.com/index.php To all contributors: Thank you, and your contrib copies are now on the way. To all non-contributors: I am currently reading for Issue no. 3, sometime in spring 2008; please send submissions via E-MAIL ONLY to dhadbawnik at yahoo.com --David Hadbawnik ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 16:51:00 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Bob Fosse/Lenny Bruce/Bob Dylan In-Reply-To: <342688.98148.qm@web52411.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i show "Lenny" in classes relatively frequently; it's a mixed bag. it candy-coats Lenny's message and personality and makes him out like a love-and-peace messiah; he had sharp edges in real life. it's a real tour de force of acting, though, that's for sure, both hoffman and perrine. the film bears the marks of its era, though, in its obsession with breasts. it's well worth seeing, but again, i guess no docu-bio-drama can be expected to be an unmediated access to its subject (to point out the banally obvious). so what do you-all think of Velvet Goldmine? i haven't seen it yet myself. steve russell wrote: > How many people on the list are old enough to remember Bob Fosse? & how many among those answering yes are old enough to remember "Lenny?" I attended a blue collar Catholic high school. I had terrible acne. & I was in to Lenny Bruce, not exactly the ticket to success in the repressive Orlando, Florida that I grew up in. I haven't seen the Dylan movie. I trust the comments here far more than I do the crits. > > It's too bad Fosse isn't around to try his had at a Dylan docu/dram. Lenny was pretty Gddamn decent. I'll never forget Hoffman doing Bruce, intoning that great "To is a preposition, come is a verb" line. > > > --------------------------------- > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 18:01:14 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: A Reading by Renee Gladman and Carla Harryman Comments: To: Erik Belgum , beato@att.net, spidertangle@yahoogroups.com, Theory and Writing , Sumanth S Gopinath , Lynn Lukkas , Riv Ellen Prell , John Mowitt , Carol Roos , Creative Writing Program , Amy Kaminsky , Joanna Oconnell , kelly@raintaxi.com, Rachel Moritz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please announce to your respective departments and communities: "Poetry from the Engine Room": A Reading by Renee Gladman and Carla Harryman Co-sponsored By: Institute for Advanced Study, VG:Voices from the Gaps, and the Department of English Wednesday, December 5, 2007 4:15 PM Cost: Free! Room 125 Nolte Center for Continuing Education Minneapolis Campus Contact: Institute for Advanced Study, 612-626-5054 *Renee Gladman* is an Assistant Professor of Literary Arts at Brown University and author of Arlem, Not Right Now, Juice The Activist and A Picture Feeling. *Carla Harryman* is an author, playwright and critical essayist. She is part of the MFA faculty at Bard College and a senior lecturer at Wayne State University. Cosponsored by Voices From the Gaps. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 14:34:09 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Susan Webster Schultz Subject: Sidewalk (anti-war) blog news for December 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Kane`ohe Christmas parade was held today; it's a huge event here, with thousands of participants, including politicians, firemen, old people (the retirement home folks wore shirts that read "Peace" and bore the word on their float), hula halau (they had a peace sign on their float), church groups, and of course the cops and the Marines. My kids marched in the parade with their scout troops. I put out five signs on the parade route last night, hoping that some of them would survive, and they all did! The theme was Jesus (the pacific Jesus, not the warring one). "Got health care?" still hangs in the middle of Kane`ohe from last week's "got ?" series, as well. The last five photos of album 3 show the signs in their state of nature; there's a still-life beforehand from the workshop. http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=15490&l=e0c18&id=654553661 As ever, please feel free to pull signs, just don't attribute them to me by name. aloha, the Sidewalk Blogger. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 00:45:54 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barry Schwabsky Subject: TX readings? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I will be coming through Austin and probably also Houston some time in the = period from late February-early April 2008. If anyone has any leads on read= ing series in either city that might be appropriate for me, please backchan= nel. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 20:25:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: I'm Not There Comments: To: Charles Bernstein In-Reply-To: 4752069B.2020705@bway.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I did like the Richie Havens sequence -- And I thought the whole idea of the Woodie Guthrie segment was inspired -- A film based on the "lives of Bob Dylan" including a segment in which a boy lives the lies Dylan told about his youth -- As I said, for a few minutes there I thought I was going to like the movie -- On Sat, Dec 1, 2007 08:12 PM, Charles Bernstein wrote: > I saw *I'm Not There* last night and liked it very much. But then, >unlike Aldon, I've liked the other Todd Haines's films I've seen, the >early one on Karen Carpenter and, especially, *Far from Heaven* (his >tribute to Douglas Sirk). His new film stuck me as one of the most >aesthetically and conceptually original films I've seen recently. It's >uneven, sure; but it's exploratory. I'd think of it in conjunction with >long-time favorites like *Pennies from Heaven*. The send-ups of the >Scorsese documentary were hysterical, bringing to mind The Mighty Wind. >And while Baez was great in the Scorsese film, the (Julianne Moore) >caricature here was quite funny (and it reminded me of the National >Lampoon parody years back: "Pull the Trig-rows Neg-rows, we're with you >all the way/ Just across the Bay"). The Pat Garrett/Billy the Kid >segments were a bit lugubrious, though I like the Peckinpah film, so I >appreciated the gesture. The Allen Ginsberg avatar figure (in the >Felliniesque sequence) was interesting maybe most just because it was >*there* (and in that segment of the film the Dylan avatar figure was in >"being there" mode as well). And as Stephen Baraban notes the >(Bunuel-like) sequence before the Christ figure was more substantive. >Also, Haines does good by Charlotte Gainsbourg and Richie Havens. I >thought the most interesting Brechtian motif was the the preteen >African-American hobo/"Woody Guthrie" sequences (as played by >Marcus >Carl Franklin). > >As we were leaving the Lincoln Square theater #2, Ed Koch was standing >in an alcove, accompanying himself on the Jew's harp. > >He was singing "Master of War." > >Off key. > >Charles Bernstein > >http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/bernstein/blog > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We are enslaved by what makes us free -- intolerable paradox at the heart of speech. --Robert Kelly Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 17:34:29 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve russell Subject: Re: I'm Not There In-Reply-To: <4752069B.2020705@bway.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Interesting that you mention *Pennies from Heaven.* I started posting while pushing this film. It was a Steve Martin vs. Woody Allen Post. I'll take Martin in almost any venue, although Allen has had a more distinguished film career. Shit, Alllen ain't that great a comedian... & Martin is an excellent writer. Charles Bernstein wrote: I saw *I'm Not There* last night and liked it very much. But then, unlike Aldon, I've liked the other Todd Haines's films I've seen, the early one on Karen Carpenter and, especially, *Far from Heaven* (his tribute to Douglas Sirk). His new film stuck me as one of the most aesthetically and conceptually original films I've seen recently. It's uneven, sure; but it's exploratory. I'd think of it in conjunction with long-time favorites like *Pennies from Heaven*. The send-ups of the Scorsese documentary were hysterical, bringing to mind The Mighty Wind. And while Baez was great in the Scorsese film, the (Julianne Moore) caricature here was quite funny (and it reminded me of the National Lampoon parody years back: "Pull the Trig-rows Neg-rows, we're with you all the way/ Just across the Bay"). The Pat Garrett/Billy the Kid segments were a bit lugubrious, though I like the Peckinpah film, so I appreciated the gesture. The Allen Ginsberg avatar figure (in the Felliniesque sequence) was interesting maybe most just because it was *there* (and in that segment of the film the Dylan avatar figure was in "being there" mode as well). And as Stephen Baraban notes the (Bunuel-like) sequence before the Christ figure was more substantive. Also, Haines does good by Charlotte Gainsbourg and Richie Havens. I thought the most interesting Brechtian motif was the the preteen African-American hobo/"Woody Guthrie" sequences (as played by Marcus Carl Franklin). As we were leaving the Lincoln Square theater #2, Ed Koch was standing in an alcove, accompanying himself on the Jew's harp. He was singing "Master of War." Off key. Charles Bernstein http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/bernstein/blog --------------------------------- Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 20:37:08 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: new anthology, from Sheila Murphy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Good morning, friends! Marc Weber has shared with me that the recently published anthology is now available through amazon.com Please pass the word, and enjoy! Sheila Murphy ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 02:49:29 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: eric unger Subject: Re: TX readings? In-Reply-To: <427647.34906.qm@web86012.mail.ird.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline come thru abilene on thursday nights -- there is only that place on thursdays ! cheque it out. the red sands of Abilene. i once saw an armidillo in the state park. --Eric On 12/1/07, Barry Schwabsky wrote: > I will be coming through Austin and probably also Houston some time in the period from late February-early April 2008. If anyone has any leads on reading series in either city that might be appropriate for me, please backchannel. > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 18:09:15 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alexander Jorgensen Subject: This fella has landed -- but, alas, is still spiraling: upward, inward, and onward!! In-Reply-To: Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 http://www.alexanderjorgensen.com Believe it or not, most of these links are blocked in China. Hmm, and from this vantage: Planet B-612 was not such a bad place. Lots of love, agj -- Alexander Jorgensen bangdrum@fastmail.fm -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Accessible with your email software or over the web ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 05:06:49 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eric Hoffman Subject: I'm Not There In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit For all its experimentalism of form (it is definitely non-linear in its composition and in its use of 6 actors, and so forth, and other experiments with film stock and of course the inevitable post-modernist self-referentialism and homages to numerous other films, both Dylan and non-Dylan, particularly Godard and even Peckinpah or Altman) it's also deeply conservative in that it has many aspects of the typical "bio-pic". Of course all this traditional/experimental and non-linear framework is entirely in keeping with a Dylan song which may finally be the point. Cate Blanchett is good in her nailing the mid-sixties Dylan's mannerisms and so on, but her performance falls into the trap of many other performances that seek to become one with another well-known persona. In this movie, the young man who plays Dylan as a child I thought more interesting than Blanchett, as was Richard Gere in a truly mesmerizing sequence which brings to mind the aforementioned Peckingpah and Altman, but also Dylan's Basement Tapes, John Wesley Harding, the film and soundtrack Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid and also the Rolling Thunder Revue. All in about 20 minutes of film. Richard Gere's mostly silent performance (I believe he also narrates the film) is remarkable and the one truly good Dylan cover (of the Basement Tapes song "Goin' to Acapulco") performed by Jim James (in Rolling Thunder-style white face makeup) is the highlight moment of the film. [Andy - - - where is the church you refer to? All I saw was a gazeebo). The Heath Ledger mid-seventies Dylan of Woodstock New Morning to Blood on the Tracks era is least successful, in my opinion. Here's where the Godard comes in and here is also where the film becomes far too postmodernist, self-referential and flat. Also the Christian Bale sections (as schlocky TV biography) was forced and could have been scrapped without affecting the film too much. But altogether I think it was a brave and appropriate style in which to tackle the immensity of Dylan. Though I had hoped Scorsese's documentary would finally put to rest the Dylan as social commentator that burdens much of the Blanchett section to the detriment of understanding more about where the music came . . . rather than from what it was running. And maybe someday Columbia will get around to releasing The Basement Tapes rather than yet another recycling of his alleged "greatest hits." All I can do is dream. --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 11:31:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Turkish Poetry in Jacket MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline *"Jacket 34* has just come out. It contains a 120-page section on Turkish poetry, including selections from *Eda: An Anthology of Contemporary Turkish Poetry * and additional new essays and translations. http://jacketmagazine.com/34/index.shtml Ciao, Murat" ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 11:40:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: On Eda and Turkish Poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline *"Through Western Eyes* *I.* ... It has often been said that the natives will only teach foreigners a fake, degraded language, a mock system of signs parodying the real language. It has also been said that the natives don't know their own language, and must mimic the phony languages of foreigners, to make sense out of their lives. =97 Linh Dinh, "Vocab Lab," *American Tatts* *II.* If one wants to grasp the underlying principle of 20th century Turkish poetry in one stroke, it is that it brings animism into the middle of our global universe. Everything in that poetry becomes relatively clear from that perspective. Not only trees or animals, but in this poetry colors, objects, things, natural processes are in dialogue with each other, weaving their endless patterns. *Eda* is the structure of that pattern, the mesh of linguistic and geographic coordinates which go to its creation. Not the individual, but objects, colors, things are at the center of this endless transformation, the ego attached to it only tangentially, a detail, suffering and ecstatic. It is this peripheral relationship of consciousness to wider natural forces =97 subjective and objective, visceral and abstract= =97 which gives Turkish poetry its stunning originality. *III.* "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." William Shakespeare, *Hamlet" *from *Jacket 34 * Ciao, Murat ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 12:25:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Heller Subject: "Beckmann Variations" FYI ( and/or self-advert) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-737A3102; boundary="=======AVGMAIL-4752EA6F6D14=======" --=======AVGMAIL-4752EA6F6D14======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-737A3102 Just published: "Beckmann Variations," a mixed-genre prose/poetry piece is in the recent New England Review, Vol 28, No. 3, pp 143-160. Luna Park Review blog reviewed it at: http://lunaparkreview.blogspot.com/. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Uncertain Poetries: Essays on Poets, Poetry and Poetics (2005) and Exigent Futures: New and Selected Poems (2003) available at www.saltpublishing.com, amazon.com and good bookstores. Survey of work at: http://www.thing.net/~grist/ld/heller.htm Collaborations with Ellen Fishman Johnson at: http://www.efjcomposer.com/EFJ/Collaborations.html --=======AVGMAIL-4752EA6F6D14======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg=cert; charset=us-ascii; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-737A3102 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Content-Description: "AVG certification" No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.13/1164 - Release Date: 12/2/2007 = 11:30 AM --=======AVGMAIL-4752EA6F6D14=======-- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 13:02:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Carol Novack Subject: Laura Hinton, Angela Szczepaniak, & Yuriy Tarnawsky at The KGB Bar next Friday, 12/7 Comments: To: lit-events@yahoogroups.com, nycwriters , "newyorkcitywriters@yahoogroups.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline * Mad Hatters' Review* *Edgy & Enlightened Literature, Art & Music in the Age of Dementia * *Poetry, Prose & Anything Goes Reading Series* Curated & Pickled by Publisher/Editor Carol Novack 9th Reading * **************** *Friday, December 7th, 2007, 7 =96 9 pm* *KGB Bar, 85 East 4th Street, N.Y.C.* *Featuring* *Laura Hinton*, author of The Perverse Gaze of Sympathy: Sadomasochistic Sentiments from Clarissa to Rescue 911, and co-editor of We Who Love to Be Astonished: Experimental Women's Writing and Performance Poetics. Her critical essays, interviews, and reviews may be found in journals including Contemporary Literature, Rain Taxi, Jacket, and The Journal of the Academy of American Poets, as well as collections including Innovative Women Poets. Her poetry has appeared in journals including How2, Feminist Studies, NthPosition, and the volumes Poetic Voices Without Borders and September 11= , 2001: American Writers Respond. Laura curates the reading series, "InterRUPTions," at City College, where she teaches contemporary literature= , multi-media, and feminist theory. Laura is a future contributor to Mad Hatters' Review. *Angela Szczepaniak*, neck-deep in a PhD (at SUNY Buffalo), happily reading and writing about comics, innovative detective literature, and poetry. She has also been writing and publishing spitz and spatz of a novel (Unisex Lov= e Poems: one-sided conversations), which mainly concerns the language of food= , bodies, and etiquette. Her writings may be found at Headlight Anthology, Foursquare Magazine, and other publications. Five of Angela's poems may be read in the current issue of Mad Hatters' Review. *Yuriy Tarnawsky*, author of 19 collections of poetry, seven plays, nine books of fiction, a biography, and numerous articles and translations. He was born in Ukraine but raised and educated in the West. A linguist by training, he has worked as computer scientist specializing in natural language processing and as professor of Ukrainian literature at Columbia University. His work shows strong influence of Surrealism and Existentialis= m and devotion to language and structure. His most recent book is a collectio= n of mini-novels Like Blood in Water from FC2. Two of his short fictions will appear in Issue 9 of Mad Hatters' Review. Publications by the authors will be offered for sale by Mobile Libris. For further info, email: madhattersreview@gmail.com (type READINGS in the subject line) MAD HATTERS' REVIEW: Edgy & Enlightened Literature, Art & Music in the Age of Dementia: http://www.madhattersreview.com KEEP THE MAD HATTERS ALIVE! MAKE A TAX DEDUCTIBLE DONATION! https://www.fracturedatlas.org/site/contribute/donate/580 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 11:22:43 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Small Press Traffic Subject: Rodrigo Toscano & His Collapsible Poetics Theater this Friday at Small Press Traffic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Small Press Traffic is thrilled to present: Rodrigo Toscano & His Collapsible Poetics Theater Friday, December 7, 2007 Timken Lecture Hall 7:30 p.m. Refreshments will be served Join us! This is the final event of our Fall 2007 season and an event not to be missed! Rodrigo Toscano is the author of To Leveling Swerve, Platform, The Disparities, Partisans. His new book, Collapsible Poetics Theater, which was a National Poetry Series 2007 selection, is due out in 2008. Toscano's poetics plays, body movement poems, and polyvocalic pieces have been performed at the Disney Redcat Theater in Los Angeles, Ontological-Hysteric Poet's Theater Festival, Poet's Theater Jamboree 2007, and the Yockadot Poetics Theater Festival. Toscano is originally from the Borderlands of California. He lives in Brooklyn, NY. About the Collapsible Poetics Theater Toscano writes: "Poetics Theater is a test of poetry. The Collapsible Poetics Theater is an all volunteer effort, one that assembles itself within a given 24 hour period of each performance. Each locale (with its resident poets, experienced actors, experienced non-actors) brings an entirely new set of possibilities. It is reminiscent of Commedia Dell'Arte in its traveling, portable, rapid-set up qualities. To be sure, Poetics Theater fits into the poetry scene as a baby does in itchy burlap; it fits into the drama scene as does a little crown, little scepter, little gown, all neatly stored in a metal suitcase (quite literally!). The dings are just dings. The persistent question is: can the poem be tested any further?" Unless otherwise noted, events are $5-10, sliding scale, free to current SPT members and CCA faculty, staff, and students. There's no better time to join SPT! Check out: http://www.sptraffic.org/html/supporters.htm Unless otherwise noted, our events are presented in Timken Lecture Hall California College of the Arts 1111 Eighth Street, San Francisco (just off the intersection of 16th & Wisconsin). Directions & map: http://www.sptraffic.org/html/directions.htm We'll see you Fridays! _______________________________ Dana Teen Lomax, Interim Director Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center at CCA 1111 -- 8th Street San Francisco, CA 94107 415.551.9278 smallpresstraffic@gmail.com http://www.sptraffic.org ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 15:11:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bobbie Lurie Subject: article re: yahoo from nytimes sunday dec. 2, 2007 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" List-- i've pasted this=C2=A0article from nytimes yesterday.=20 anyone have any ideas on this? bobbi For a company that ostensibly believes in the Internet=E2=80=99s liberating=20= power, Yahoo has a gallingly backward understanding of the value of free exp= ression. The company helped Beijing=E2=80=99s state police uncover the Internet ident= ities of two Chinese journalists, who were handed 10 years in prison for dis= seminating pro-democracy writings. Testifying before Congress last year abou= t one case, Yahoo=E2=80=99s legal counsel said the company was unaware of th= e nature of the investigation. Did he miss the language about providing =E2= =80=9Cstate secrets to foreign entities=E2=80=9D =E2=80=94 a red flag for a=20= political prosecution?=20 Last month, Yahoo settled a suit by the families of the jailed journalists b= ut it did not admit doing wrong and is refusing to change its procedures to=20= avoid becoming a stool pigeon for China=E2=80=99s police state again. Yahoo=E2=80=99s collaboration is appalling, and Yahoo is not the only Americ= an company helping the Chinese government repress its people. Microsoft shut= down a blogger at Beijing=E2=80=99s request. Google, Yahoo and Microsoft ce= nsor searches in China. Cisco Systems provided hardware used by Beijing to c= ensor and monitor the Internet. These companies argue that it is better for the Chinese people to have a cen= sored Internet than no Internet. They say that they must abide by the laws o= f the countries they operate in. But the Chinese Constitution guarantees fre= edom of speech, the press, association and assembly. Those guarantees may be= purely symbolic, but these companies =E2=80=94 which loudly protest Chinese= piracy of their intellectual property =E2=80=94 have not tried to resist. W= hat they are resisting are efforts in Congress that could help them stand ag= ainst repressive governments. Last January, Representative Christopher Smith of New Jersey reintroduced th= e Global Online Freedom Act in the House. It would fine American companies t= hat hand over information about their customers to foreign governments that=20= suppress online dissent. The bill would at least give American companies a s= olid reason to decline requests for data, but the big Internet companies do=20= not support it. That shows how much they care about the power of information= to liberate the world. ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://o.aolcdn= .com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=3Daolcmp0005000000= 0003 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 20:10:34 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eric Elshtain Subject: New Chapbook by Keith & Rosmarie Waldrop MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Beard of Bees Press is pleased to being you abecedarian selections from Keith & Rosmarie Waldrop's _Flat With No Key_. http://www.beardofbees.com/waldrop.html Best Eric E. Eric Elshtain Editor Beard of Bees Press http://www.beardofbees.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 14:11:42 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joan Waltemath Subject: Michael Corris MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello! I'm looking to get in touch with Michael Corris. I would like to ask him if he would consent to be interviewed for the Brooklyn Rail about his recent book on Ad Reinhardt. thank you, Joan Waltemath ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 22:31:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Machlin Subject: Face Out Book Release Party, NYC Th. 12/6 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed FACE OUT Book Release Party Celebrating new books by: Ihsan Bracy, Prageeta Sharma, Lila Zemborain, Brenda Iijima & Dan Machlin with music by the Vintage DJ Thursday, December 6th, 7:30 PM, FREE Good World Bar & Grill 3 Orchard Street (between Canal & Division) New York City ph. 212.925.9975 http://www.goodworldbar.com/ Readings from new books by New York presses: Prageeta Sharma, Infamous Landscapes, Fence Books (Dec. 2007) Lila Zemborain, Mauve-Sea Orchids, Belladonna Books (November 2007) Brenda Iijima, Animate, Inanimate Aims, Litmus Press (June 2007) Dan Machlin, Dear Body:, Ugly Duckling Presse (Oct. 2007) Ihsan Bracy, Paths of Sanctuary, Cool Grove Press (Feb. 2008) F to East Broadway Exit near intersection of Canal St and Division St Start out going West on Division St towards Ludlow St Turn right onto Orchard Street FACE OUT is a program of the Jerome Foundation and CLMP that supports the book publications of emerging writers by New York Presses. This event is made possible by the FACE OUT program with additional support from CLMP. It is free & open to the public. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 23:58:39 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: CA Conrad Subject: HOTEL, new lit mag MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Just heard about this new mag HOTEL looking for poems! go here: http://hotelmagazine.blogspot.com/ The editor is Alex Ableson, one of these cool young poets with a fresh crack of the whip! OUCH! GOOD STUFF! CAConrad http://PhillySound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 00:03:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bobbie Lurie Subject: Feminism vs. Muslim Women? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" =C2=A0 MONDAY, JULY 23, 2007 Feminism vs. Muslim Women?=20 I have often wondered why some of the most vocal critics of America=E2=80= =99s involvement in Iraq are some of those who would have the most to loose=20= under Sharia law. Where would the ACLU, Moveon.org, and assorted gay rights=20= groups be if they were forced to live under Sharia Law. I don=E2=80=99t unde= rstand why some of these groups don=E2=80=99t make a common cause with those= fighting for the same rights in Iraq and the Middle East. =C2=A0 For example, under Muslim law, women have very few rights. While most citize= ns in the Middle East have very little influence over their government, many= women are in even worse shape. How often have we seen articles in the news=20= about honor killings? How many female genital mutilations are performed in t= he Middle East without the consent of the girl being exposed to this barbari= c practice? How many girls are sentenced to prison because they were raped? =C2=A0 I recently read an article in the Weekly Standard from May of 2007 by Christ= ina Hoff Sommers that ask some of these same questions. She asks why there a= ren=E2=80=99t more demonstrations here in the United States to help women in= Muslim countries. Ms. Sommers points out, =E2=80=9C[d]uring the 1980=E2=80= =99s, there were massive demonstrations on American campuses against racial=20= apartheid in South Africa. There is no remotely comparable movement on today= =E2=80=99s campuses against the gender apartheid prevalent in large parts of= the world.=E2=80=9D Ms. Sommers argues that while the, =E2=80=9C=E2=80=A6co= ndition of Muslim women may be the most pressing women=E2=80=99s issue of ou= r age...=E2=80=9D too many feminist groups today are focused on attacking th= e United States and not on examining the condition of women outside of the U= .S. =C2=A0 I did a random sampling of feminist groups in the United States to see if Ms= . Sommers was being fair in her characterization of these groups. Very few o= f the websites I visited talked at all about women outside the United States= . In a domestic violence study on the Center for the Advancement of Women, t= he group mentions talking to what it considers a diverse group: non-minority= , African-American, Asian, Latina, adult and teenage women. Since the study=20= does bring up religion, I was surprised there was no mention of Muslim women= . =C2=A0 A more prominent group, The National Organization for Women (NOW), list as t= heir top priorities: Abortion Rights / Reproductive Issues, Violence against= Women, Constitutional Equality, Promoting Diversity / Ending Racism, Lesbia= n Rights, and Economic Justice. =E2=80=9CGlobal Feminism=E2=80=9D appears as= bullet point five under =E2=80=9COther Important Issues=E2=80=9D. You will=20= be happy to know that at number four in this same category is =E2=80=9CFight= ing the Right=E2=80=9D. Under =E2=80=9CGlobal Feminism=E2=80=9D the most rec= ent article is dated October of 2006. I did a quick search on Google for=20= =E2=80=9Chonor killings=E2=80=9D and found articles on CNN, The Christian Sc= ience Monitor, and other sources much more recent than that.=20 =C2=A0 However, not being active in any of these organizations, maybe I was missing= something. Going back to the homepage for NOW, I looked to see what the mos= t pressing issues facing today=E2=80=99s women are. The first article was=20= =E2=80=9CBreaking News: Cleavage on Display=E2=80=9D. This insightful bit of= reporting was referring to Hilary Clinton=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9Cbrazen step= =E2=80=9D to wear a low neckline. Here is the link to the story if you think= I am making this up. And this was the headline as of the writing of this ar= ticle.=20 =C2=A0 There are feminist movements active in the Middle East. Occasionally America= n feminist will try to help these movements only to be attacked by organizat= ions such as NOW. In her article, Ms. Sommers points out that these movement= s are gaining some momentum, and that they don=E2=80=99t like what they see=20= in their American counterparts. A 1998 book quoted in the article said that=20= some Iraqi women=E2=80=99s advocates don=E2=80=99t like what they see as try= ing to divide men from women, and separating women from their family.=20 =C2=A0 In her article, Mrs. Sommers points out, =E2=80=9CA reviewer of Irshad Manji= =E2=80=99s manifesto celebrating Islamic feminism aptly remarked, =E2=80=98T= his could be Osama bin Laden=E2=80=99s worst nightmare.=E2=80=99 Ipso facto,= it should be our fondest dream.=E2=80=9D American Feminist should take a st= ep back from the political parties and look at their own ideals. If women= =E2=80=99s issues, and especially all women=E2=80=99s issues, are what their= organizations are about, how can they not support an effort to provide wome= n in the Middle East with a stable democracy to live in? Are feminist in the= se groups so against the Republican party and George Bush that they would wa= nt the women of the Middle East to live in conditions they would never, ever= , dream of here in the U.S.? =C2=A0 To drive the point home, the cover of The Weekly Standard with Ms. Sommers a= rticle shows three women who are coverd except for their face and their hand= s. The center woman has some hair showing on the top of her head. The captio= n for this cover is "Government agents in Tehran warn a woman about her clot= hing and hair during a crackdown to enforce the regime's dress code, April 2= 2, 2007." Is this really the environment that NOW wants women living in? =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://o.aolcdn= .com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=3Daolcmp0005000000= 0003 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 00:07:12 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: i'm not there MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit one of the best? what are the others ????? that's a mouthful On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 21:31:41 -0800 Andy Gricevich writes: > I think it's one of the best films I've ever seen, certainly > U.S.-made (I already knew that Haynes was the best U.S. filmmaker). > Every shot is thoughtfully, beautifully composed, and the acting is > magnificent. > > It's surprising, on this list of all places, to find comments > treating the film as if it's a Dylan bio. It is partially that, of > course, but it's structured more like a Dylan song than a > biography--almost a verse-like nature to the different sections. > Characters closer to and farther from the tenuous "reality" recur or > drift in and out; just as in the songs, bits of the outside leak in: > not only the extra-cinematic outside (the war, Nixon, SoCal > born-again culture) but the cinematic outside (Fellini's and > Godard's work of the same period as "Blonde on Blonde" as well as > the Beatles' "Help," but also the traces of Fassbinder that are > always visible in Haynes' work) and the "outside" of 20th-century > American mythologies (the hobo and labor stories, etc.). > > The richly deserved praise for Cate Blanchett misses the point in > its exclusive focus on the most literally biographical thread in the > film (it should be a hint that even her character gets a fictional > name, one that combines Quinn the Eskimo with Jude (Judas)). The > movie takes Dylan's own repeated reinvention of himself in > accordance with his most beloved myths as a structural basis that it > expands to a larger scale, reinventing the reinventions themselves > (so that Gere's Billy the Kid is also Dylan from the motorcycle > accident to the present, socially reclusive (even on an endless > tour); the actor character is a literalization of Dylan's treatment > of previous personae as mere puppets, laying bare his narcissism, > selfishness and exhaustion by embodying them as a character; "Arthur > Rimbaud" is a series of aphoristic Dylanisms drawn out by strange > interrogators). > > One of my favorite aspects of the film is its self-consciousness > about quotation (from Dylan's interviews and songs and from other > films, as well as--especially--of all sorts of American archetypal > stories) and artifice, without any of the postmodern irony, the > "fear of actually meaning it," one finds in a lot of self-conscious > contemporary narrative art. > > There's simultaneously a "hands-off" aspect to the presentation > (the gorgeous surreal naturalism of the Gere sequences and the > church scene that's allowed to speak for itself, without any > Christopher Guest-style condescension) and an acknowledgment of the > fact and power of telling--a way of presenting that amplifies > strangeness while simultaneously acting as if it is, or might as > well be, perfectly realistic. > > My three cents. > > --Andy > > > --------------------------------- > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 00:17:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: Bob Fosse/Lenny Bruce/Bob Dylan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit fosse was great the film about him all that jazz with roy scheider another great american biopic let's name lots of bio pics see what we come up with what are some greats and favorites and ones about poets writers and ah lust(s) for life On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 09:34:02 -0800 steve russell writes: > How many people on the list are old enough to remember Bob Fosse? & > how many among those answering yes are old enough to remember > "Lenny?" I attended a blue collar Catholic high school. I had > terrible acne. & I was in to Lenny Bruce, not exactly the ticket to > success in the repressive Orlando, Florida that I grew up in. I > haven't seen the Dylan movie. I trust the comments here far more > than I do the crits. > > It's too bad Fosse isn't around to try his had at a Dylan docu/dram. > Lenny was pretty Gddamn decent. I'll never forget Hoffman doing > Bruce, intoning that great "To is a preposition, come is a verb" > line. > > > --------------------------------- > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 00:14:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: i'm not there MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit aldon read the ny press review they tore it apart and for all the right reasons i liked it with all its flaws but now at times the flaws overtake my positive judgement but that's a very long discourse and still glad the film was made On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 12:28:55 -0500 ALDON L NIELSEN writes: > Some of this is, of course, a matter of taste -- I confess that to > date I > haven't liked anything by Haynes -- I didn't like his ALL THAT > HEAVEN ALLOWS > and I thought the beautifully shot homage to his own film that > appears in this > film was rather silly -- > > Part of the problem for me is that being "structured like a Dylan > song" isn't > really the problem -- the problem is literalizing what Dylan does -- > this > didn't work well in Masked & Anonymous and it doesn't work well > here, for me -- > Rather like that Voices and Visions TV series years ago in which > they'd read a > poem by Frost and show you a New England wood pile -- geez, you > think it's a > metaphor? deep! In M&A (and in the Gere section of this film) it's > as if > they'd made a movie of the cover of the official Basement tapes -- > > Brakhage films, I'd say, are structured like songs -- > > and I'd still say that EAT THE DOCUMENT does a better job of this > (and works as > well if you forget Dylan even exists as an actual person) -- > > but I recognize that in this instance mine is a minorty opinion -- > most critics > seem to like it -- most critics liked CRASH and HUSTLE & FLOW (to > name two very > different films I couldn't abide) -- > > On Sat, Dec 1, 2007 12:31 AM, Andy Gricevich > wrote: > > > I think it's one of the best films I've ever seen, certainly > U.S.-made (I > >already knew that Haynes was the best U.S. filmmaker). Every shot > is > >thoughtfully, beautifully composed, and the acting is magnificent. > > > > >It's surprising, on this list of all places, to find comments > treating the film > >as if it's a Dylan bio. It is partially that, of course, but it's > structured > >more like a Dylan song than a biography--almost a verse-like nature > to the > >different sections. Characters closer to and farther from the > tenuous > recur or drift in and out; just as in the songs, bits of > >the outside leak in: not only the extra-cinematic outside (the war, > Nixon, > >SoCal born-again culture) but the cinematic outside (Fellini's and > >Godard's work of the same period as "Blonde on Blonde" as well as > the > >Beatles' "Help," but also the traces of Fassbinder that are always > >visible in Haynes' work) and the "outside" of 20th-century > >American mythologies (the hobo and labor stories, etc.). > > > >The richly deserved praise for Cate Blanchett misses the point in > its exclusive > >focus on the most literally biographical thread in the film (it > should be > >a hint that even her character gets a fictional name, one that > combines Quinn > >the Eskimo with Jude (Judas). The movie takes Dylan's own repeated > >reinvention of himself in accordance with his most beloved myths as > a > >structural basis that it expands to a larger scale, reinventing > the > >reinventions themselves (so that Gere's Billy the Kid is also Dylan > from > >the motorcycle accident to the present, socially reclusive (even on > an > >endless tour); the actor character is a literalization of Dylan's > >treatment of previous personae as mere puppets, laying bare his > narcissism, > >selfishness and exhaustion by embodying them as a character; > "Arthur > >Rimbaud" is a series of aphoristic Dylanisms drawn out by strange > >interrogators). > > > >One of my favorite aspects of the film is its self-consciousness > about > >quotation (from Dylan's interviews and songs and from other films, > as well > >as--especially--of all sorts of American archetypal stories) and > artifice, > >without any of the postmodern irony, the "fear of actually meaning > >it," one finds in a lot of self-conscious contemporary narrative > art. > > > >There's simultaneously a "hands-off" aspect to the presentation > >(the gorgeous surreal naturalism of the Gere sequences and the > church > >scene that's allowed to speak for itself, without any Christopher > Guest-style > >condescension) and an acknowledgment of the fact and power of > telling--a > >way of presenting that amplifies strangeness while simultaneously > acting as if > >it is, or might as well be, perfectly realistic. > > > >My three cents. > > > >--Andy > > > > > >--------------------------------- > >Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. > > > > > > > > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > > We are enslaved by > what makes us free -- intolerable > paradox at the heart of speech. > --Robert Kelly > > Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > > Aldon L. Nielsen > Kelly Professor of American Literature > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 23:06:23 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: UbuWeb Subject: UBUWEB :: Featured Resources December 2007 - Alejandra & Aeron MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit __ U B U W E B __ http://ubu.com UBUWEB :: Featured Resources December 2007 Selected by Alejandra & Aeron 1. The Films of Toshio Matsumoto (all, especially Weavers, Mothers, Ki, and Sway) http://www.ubu.com/film/matsumoto.html 2. The Films of Jack Goldstein (all, especially MGM, Bone China, and the 7" Records with Sound Effects.) http://www.ubu.com/film/matsumoto.html 3. Marie Mencken "Glimpse of the Garden" (1957) http://www.ubu.com/film/menken.html 4. Peter Campus "Three Transitions" (1973) http://www.ubu.com/film/campus_three.html 5. Edgard Varése and Le Corbusier "Poème électronique" (1958) http://www.ubu.com/film/varese.html 6. Kristin Oppenheim "Selected Audio Works 1994-1997" http://www.ubu.com/sound/oppenheim.html 7. David Grubbs' Soundworks http://www.ubu.com/sound/grubbs.html 8. Pandit Pran Nath "Ragas of Morning and Night" http://www.ubu.com/sound/nath.html 9. I.B.M. 7090 - Music From Mathematics http://www.ubu.com/outsiders/365/2003/260.shtml 10. "Tagasode" Edo period, 17th century http://www.ubu.com/aspen/aspen10/tagasode.html 11. Hidatsa: Lean Wolf's Complaint http://www.ubu.com/ethno/visuals/am_indian01.html 12. Penelope Umbrico (especially "Arrhythmia (All The Dishes On Ebay)" and "Your Choice") http://www.ubu.com/contemp/umbrico/index.html Aeron Bergman and Alejandra Salinas are artists whose work meets aesthetics and politics. They currently live and work in Oslo where Bergman is head professor of the digital department at the Art Academy of Oslo, Norway, and special advisor to the Nordic Sound Art Master program, a joint program between the major Scandinavian art academies. The artist duo have done major installations at art centers such as Centre d´Arte Santa Monica in Barcelona, Taipei Fine Art Museum, ICC Tokyo and the Serralves Museum in Porto; and sound performances around the world such as the Palais de Tokyo in Paris, the Knitting Factory in New York, and the CCCB in Barcelona; as well as running the sound art publisher Lucky Kitchen. Alejandra & Aeron on UbuWeb: http://www.ubu.com/sound/aa.html Lucky Kitchen http://www.luckykitchen.com/ __ U B U W E B __ http://ubu.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/sports;_ylt=At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G1SQtBI7ntAcJ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 06:49:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gwyn McVay Subject: Christ, I bit the bait, was Re: Feminism vs. Muslim Women? In-Reply-To: <8CA0380FFC02396-EDC-505@FWM-M19.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Occasionally > American feminist will try to help these movements only to be attacked by > organizations such as NOW. With what? Pitchforks? If NOW is so irrelevant, isn't the threat factor of being attacked by it roughly that of having a chihuahua hump one's ankle? > To drive the point home, the cover of The Weekly Standard with Ms. Sommers > article shows three women who are coverd except for their face and their > hands. The center woman has some hair showing on the top of her head. The > caption for this cover is "Government agents in Tehran warn a woman about > her clothing and hair during a crackdown to enforce the regime's dress > code, April 22, 2007." Is this really the environment that NOW wants women > living in? No, but that question is a stunning example of the straw-(hu)man fallacy. In fact, I may show it to my freshman comp students as an example of what not to do. Thanks! *waves cheerfully* Gwyn, thinking the US really needs to see an opthalmologist about that plank, as discussed eloquently by David Chirot ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 22:57:17 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: Feminism vs. Muslim Women? In-Reply-To: <8CA0380FFC02396-EDC-505@FWM-M19.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Bobby Have you spoken to any Iraqis about this? You probably should. Saddam was a tyrant, no question: a friend of mine was shot by his troops while demonstrating against his regime and had to get his family out of there. Yet I know no Iraqis who support the US occupation. You have to remember that the US invaded the most secular country in the Middle East. Islamism has only been an issue since the US invasion. Just as a note: I have been very careful about making generalisations about Islam ever since, as a young and ignorantly well-meaning woman, I had my head bitten off by a very feminist Islamic woman who told me in no uncertain terms that Muslim women were by no means the downtrodden persecuted sex I had assumed, and that traditional Muslim women had the right to divorce their husbands and they kept their own property after marriage and took it with them when they left. Honour killings and genital mutilations are not Islamic, but very culturally specific (honour killings also happen in Orthodox Christian Greece). Etc. Her best argument, frankly, was her own self: she was an amazing, forthright woman (as are many Islamic women). Islam is as various as Christianity and in many ways not so different: after all, not so long ago in Christian societies, all property in a marriage was owned by the husband. (When when my mother divorced my father, the bank manager insisted on my father's signature when she wanted to buy some property.Only she hit the roof and he stopped insisting. A few years earlier, she would have had fewer rights than a Muslim woman: remember how Anna Wickham was sent to an asylum by her husband because she insisted on writing poetry). The aggression of the west against the Arab world has sadly made it more conservative, rather than less, and western feminists have to be careful that, for all their well-meaning intentions, they don't compound what is a complex situation. What I'm saying is, things are complex, and if you're concerned about these things, perhaps it might be best to speak to Muslim women and see what they have to say themselves. All best Alison -- Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 11:12:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Will Alexander fund [fwd] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit “we interact as presence within presence as spirit twice its equal in spirit so that a range of beasts burns between us” Will Alexander, Exobiology as Goddess Dear Poetry Community, Will Alexander, one of our most original and energetic lights, is ill with cancer. http://www.greeninteger.com/pipbios_detail.cfm?PIPAuthorID=7 The last few months have seen Will in and out of County USC, and otherwise unable to maintain his teaching and reading schedule. Will was freelancing, so his resources to financially cope with this situation are exhausted. We are collectively asking you to help fund Will's living expenses while he is in treatment and working on recovery. Sheila Scott-Wilkinson, Will's long-term partner, is acting as Will’s primary caregiver and financial manager. She and Will have opened a special joint checking account to receive these monies. Checks can be addressed to 'Sheila Scott-Wilkinson', and mailed to the following address: Sheila Scott-Wilkinson 400 South Lafayette Park Place, #307 Los Angeles, CA 90057 Love and Peace, Thérèse Bachand Jen Hofer Andrew Joron Harryette Mullen Diane Ward ------ N.B. : use the address *here*, not Poets in Need, for contributions for Will Alexander. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 23:11:06 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: Feminism vs. Muslim Women? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline PS Just realised that this was probably a forwarded article. Astoundingly naive imho, if so. All best A On Dec 3, 2007 10:57 PM, Alison Croggon wrote: > Bobby > > Have you spoken to any Iraqis about this? You probably should. Saddam was > a tyrant, no question: a friend of mine was shot by his troops while > demonstrating against his regime and had to get his family out of there. Yet > I know no Iraqis who support the US occupation. You have to remember that > the US invaded the most secular country in the Middle East. Islamism has > only been an issue since the US invasion. > > Just as a note: I have been very careful about making generalisations > about Islam ever since, as a young and ignorantly well-meaning woman, I had > my head bitten off by a very feminist Islamic woman who told me in no > uncertain terms that Muslim women were by no means the downtrodden > persecuted sex I had assumed, and that traditional Muslim women had the > right to divorce their husbands and they kept their own property after > marriage and took it with them when they left. Honour killings and genital > mutilations are not Islamic, but very culturally specific (honour killings > also happen in Orthodox Christian Greece). Etc. Her best argument, frankly, > was her own self: she was an amazing, forthright woman (as are many Islamic > women). Islam is as various as Christianity and in many ways not so > different: after all, not so long ago in Christian societies, all property > in a marriage was owned by the husband. (When when my mother divorced my > father, the bank manager insisted on my father's signature when she wanted > to buy some property.Only she hit the roof and he stopped insisting. A few > years earlier, she would have had fewer rights than a Muslim woman: remember > how Anna Wickham was sent to an asylum by her husband because she insisted > on writing poetry). > > The aggression of the west against the Arab world has sadly made it more > conservative, rather than less, and western feminists have to be careful > that, for all their well-meaning intentions, they don't compound what is a > complex situation. What I'm saying is, things are complex, and if you're > concerned about these things, perhaps it might be best to speak to Muslim > women and see what they have to say themselves. > > All best > > Alison > > > -- > Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au > Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com > Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com -- Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 12:27:27 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Invalid RFC822 field - "The whole purport of it is revealed toward the end: "In her=". Rest of header flushed. From: Barry Schwabsky Subject: Re: Feminism vs. Muslim Women? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is vile.=0AThe whole purport of it is revealed toward the end: "In her= article, Mrs. Sommers points out, 'A reviewer of Irshad Manji=E2=80=99s ma= nifesto celebrating Islamic feminism aptly remarked, "This could be Osama b= in Laden=E2=80=99s worst nightmare." Ipso facto, it should be our fondest d= ream.'"=0AIn other words, this has absolutely zero to do with helping women= in the Middle East fight for their rights on their own terms and everythin= g to do with promoting the so-called War on Terrorism, which really turns o= ut to be mostly a War on Muslims, and with attacking anyone who, by undermi= ning conservative agendas, is seen as "attacking the United States".=0A =0A= ----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Bobbie Lurie =0ATo:= POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=0ASent: Monday, 3 December, 2007 5:03:38 AM= =0ASubject: Feminism vs. Muslim Women?=0A=0A =0A=0AMONDAY, JULY 23, 2007=0A= =0AFeminism vs. Muslim Women? =0A=0AI have often wondered why some of the m= ost vocal critics of America=E2=80=99s involvement in Iraq are some of thos= e who would have the most to loose under Sharia law. Where would the ACLU, = Moveon.org, and assorted gay rights groups be if they were forced to live u= nder Sharia Law. I don=E2=80=99t understand why some of these groups don=E2= =80=99t make a common cause with those fighting for the same rights in Iraq= and the Middle East.=0A=0A =0A=0AFor example, under Muslim law, women have= very few rights. While most citizens in the Middle East have very little i= nfluence over their government, many women are in even worse shape. How oft= en have we seen articles in the news about honor killings? How many female = genital mutilations are performed in the Middle East without the consent of= the girl being exposed to this barbaric practice? How many girls are sente= nced to prison because they were raped?=0A=0A =0A=0AI recently read an arti= cle in the Weekly Standard from May of 2007 by Christina Hoff Sommers that = ask some of these same questions. She asks why there aren=E2=80=99t more de= monstrations here in the United States to help women in Muslim countries. M= s. Sommers points out, =E2=80=9C[d]uring the 1980=E2=80=99s, there were mas= sive demonstrations on American campuses against racial apartheid in South = Africa. There is no remotely comparable movement on today=E2=80=99s campuse= s against the gender apartheid prevalent in large parts of the world.=E2=80= =9D Ms. Sommers argues that while the, =E2=80=9C=E2=80=A6condition of Musli= m women may be the most pressing women=E2=80=99s issue of our age...=E2=80= =9D too many feminist groups today are focused on attacking the United Stat= es and not on examining the condition of women outside of the U.S.=0A=0A = =0A=0AI did a random sampling of feminist groups in the United States to se= e if Ms. Sommers was being fair in her characterization of these groups. Ve= ry few of the websites I visited talked at all about women outside the Unit= ed States. In a domestic violence study on the Center for the Advancement o= f Women, the group mentions talking to what it considers a diverse group: n= on-minority, African-American, Asian, Latina, adult and teenage women. Sinc= e the study does bring up religion, I was surprised there was no mention of= Muslim women.=0A=0A =0A=0AA more prominent group, The National Organizatio= n for Women (NOW), list as their top priorities: Abortion Rights / Reproduc= tive Issues, Violence against Women, Constitutional Equality, Promoting Div= ersity / Ending Racism, Lesbian Rights, and Economic Justice. =E2=80=9CGlob= al Feminism=E2=80=9D appears as bullet point five under =E2=80=9COther Impo= rtant Issues=E2=80=9D. You will be happy to know that at number four in thi= s same category is =E2=80=9CFighting the Right=E2=80=9D. Under =E2=80=9CGlo= bal Feminism=E2=80=9D the most recent article is dated October of 2006. I d= id a quick search on Google for =E2=80=9Chonor killings=E2=80=9D and found = articles on CNN, The Christian Science Monitor, and other sources much more= recent than that. =0A=0A =0A=0AHowever, not being active in any of these o= rganizations, maybe I was missing something. Going back to the homepage for= NOW, I looked to see what the most pressing issues facing today=E2=80=99s = women are. The first article was =E2=80=9CBreaking News: Cleavage on Displa= y=E2=80=9D. This insightful bit of reporting was referring to Hilary Clinto= n=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9Cbrazen step=E2=80=9D to wear a low neckline. Here is t= he link to the story if you think I am making this up. And this was the hea= dline as of the writing of this article. =0A=0A =0A=0AThere are feminist mo= vements active in the Middle East. Occasionally American feminist will try = to help these movements only to be attacked by organizations such as NOW. I= n her article, Ms. Sommers points out that these movements are gaining some= momentum, and that they don=E2=80=99t like what they see in their American= counterparts. A 1998 book quoted in the article said that some Iraqi women= =E2=80=99s advocates don=E2=80=99t like what they see as trying to divide m= en from women, and separating women from their family. =0A=0A =0A=0AIn her = article, Mrs. Sommers points out, =E2=80=9CA reviewer of Irshad Manji=E2=80= =99s manifesto celebrating Islamic feminism aptly remarked, =E2=80=98This c= ould be Osama bin Laden=E2=80=99s worst nightmare.=E2=80=99 Ipso facto, it = should be our fondest dream.=E2=80=9D American Feminist should take a step = back from the political parties and look at their own ideals. If women=E2= =80=99s issues, and especially all women=E2=80=99s issues, are what their o= rganizations are about, how can they not support an effort to provide women= in the Middle East with a stable democracy to live in? Are feminist in the= se groups so against the Republican party and George Bush that they would w= ant the women of the Middle East to live in conditions they would never, ev= er, dream of here in the U.S.?=0A=0A =0A=0A=0ATo drive the point home, the = cover of The Weekly Standard with Ms. Sommers article shows three women who= are coverd except for their face and their hands. The center woman has som= e hair showing on the top of her head. The caption for this cover is "Gover= nment agents in Tehran warn a woman about her clothing and hair during a cr= ackdown to enforce the regime's dress code, April 22, 2007." Is this really= the environment that NOW wants women living in?=0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A_= _______________________________________________________________________=0AM= ore new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://o.aolcdn= .com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=3Daolcmp000500000= 00003 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 09:30:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: susan maurer Subject: Re: WHAT TO DO WHEN THE SHIT/Wittgnstein's Mistress follows the premise In-Reply-To: <883669.17901.qm@web52409.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable have got to agree about this novel/ it's a treasure. susan maure> Date: Thu= , 29 Nov 2007 18:13:29 -0800> From: poet_in_hell@YAHOO.COM> Subject: Re: WH= AT TO DO WHEN THE SHIT/Wittgnstein's Mistress follows the premise> To: POET= ICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> > Conrad, If I were the last person alive, I'd re= ad this:> > Wittgenstein's Mistress is a novel unlike anything David Markso= n--or anyone else--has ever written before. It is the story of a woman who = is convinced--and, astonishingly, will ultimately convince the reader as we= ll--that she is the only person left on earth. Presumably she is mad. And y= et so appealing is her character, and so witty and seductive her narrative = voice, that we will follow her hypnotically as she unloads the intellectual= baggage of a lifetime in a series of irreverent meditations on everything = and everybody from Brahms to sex to Heidegger to Helen of Troy. And as she = contemplates aspects of the troubled past which have brought her to her pre= sent state--obviously a metaphor for ultimate loneliness--so too will her d= rama become one of the few certifiably original fictions of our time.> "The= novel I liked best this year," said the Washington Times upon the book's p= ublication in 1988; "one dizzying, delightful, funny passage after another.= . . . Wittgenstein's Mistress gives proof positive that the experimental n= ovel can produce high, pure works of imagination."> "Addresses formidable p= hilosophic questions with tremendous wit . . . remarkable . . . a novel tha= t can be parsed like a sentence; it is that well made."--New York Times Boo= k Review> "Unsettling, shimmering . . . compelling."--Publishers Weekly> "A= work of genius . . . an erudite, breathtakingly cerebral novel whose prose= is crystal and whose voice rivets and whose conclusion defies you not to c= ry."--David Foster Wallace> "Brilliant and often hilarious . . . Markson is= one working novelist I can think of who can claim affinities with Joyce, G= addis, and Lowry, no less than with Beckett."--San Francisco Review of Book= s> "Provocative, learned, wacko, brilliant, and extravagantly comic. This i= s a nonesuch novel, a formidable work of art by a writer who kicks traditio= n out the window, then kicks the window out the window, letting a splendid = new light into the room."--William Kennedy> "In a just world, Wittgenstein'= s Mistress would be offered notice on the cover of the New York Review of B= ooks. Let good readers therefore come and make up the difference."--Gordon = Lish> "I can't think of the last time I held my breath when I read a book, = waiting for the author to make one slip. Markson is as precise and dazzling= as Joyce. His wit and awesome power of observation make this fictional wor= ld utterly convincing. I couldn't put this book down. I can't forget it. Wh= ile Markson himself would deplore the use of a cliche, all I can say is tha= t this book is original, beautiful, and an absolute masterpiece. Anyone who= reads it can't think about the world the same way."--Ann Beattie> "Wittgen= stein's Mistress is an original and haunting work. David Markson brilliantl= y demonstrates how art and memory can both heighten and leaven grief."--Hil= ma Wolitzer> "Beautifully conceived. An irresistible, captivating book!"--W= alter Abish> "Beautifully realized. Initially as hypnotically calming as an= afternoon snowfall, then, by stages as menacing and yet thrilling as a noc= turnal blizzard. This is Markson in the post-Beckett Gaddis country, stakin= g his own claim, in a territory nobody else has the courage or the strength= to inhabit and survive in."--James McCourt > > > > (back to full catalog) = (back to top) > > Poetry > > CA Conrad wrote:> Steve= Russell wrote:> >>On the other hand, suppose a decent number of libraries = survive. The> world, post Apocalypse, >>could be an austere paradise. I lov= e> survivalist lit. But I'm not the healthiest kid on the block.> >>>>>> > = Steve, yes, I know what you mean. The FANTASY of this is kind of> terrific.= When I was a kid there was a weird Charlton Heston film I> was obsessed wi= th called OMEGA MAN, set in stark post Armageddon Los> Angeles. One of the = things I liked to do was stare into the> background of the outdoor shots to= see cars on the distant freeways> that you weren't supposed to notice.> > = In reality the libraries will look much like Baghdad's libraries, ash.> > I= wish the poetry collection at Buffalo had some sort of nuclear war> provis= ions. Michael Basinski should request funds for this in his> budget. We'll = all crawl our way to Buffalo.> > Here's a question though, and I'm serious:= Would you still write> poems if you were the LAST person on Earth? The abs= olute LAST person.> Not even any hope of offspring or anyone.> > Because I = know I would!> > To me, to ask What Would Be The Point in such a case is li= ke asking> WHAT IS THE POINT for writing them now.> > NOT that I don't want= people to read my poems! I guess I'm just> saying I think I would still wa= nt to write them.> > But maybe not. Maybe I'd be so miserable I wouldn't wa= nt to do anything.> > Being the only person on Earth sounds awful. But at t= he moment with> this ridiculous "holiday" shopping season scurrying around = me at top> speed it sounds kind of fucking nice!> > CAConrad> http://Philly= Sound.blogspot.com> > > > ---------------------------------> Get easy, one-= click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. _________________________________________________________________ Your smile counts. The more smiles you share, the more we donate.=A0 Join i= n. www.windowslive.com/smile?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_Wave2_oprsmilewlhmtagline= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 15:48:42 -0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christopher Walker Subject: Re: Feminism vs. Muslim Women? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have often wondered why some of the most vocal critics of America's involvement in Iraq are some of those who would have the most to loose under Sharia law It might be worth your looking at the history of women's rights under Saddam's Ba'athism. It wasn't what you seem to think it was. The diversionary invasion of Iraq by the current US administration (arguably it was illegal, certainly it was founded on untruths; so mere self interest might not be the only criterion for objecting to it, even were your implicit assumption anything like correct, which it is not) has set back women's rights in Iraq by some decades. Unfortunately that may be almost the very least of what it has done. CW _______________________________________________ 'How Much Better if Plymouth Rock Had Landed on the Pilgrims' (piece by David Rosenboom 1969-72) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 07:50:56 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: "How the West Was Won": A Moral Witness to the 'Intricate Machine' - The New York Review of Books MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline http://www.nybooks.com/articles/20856 --- A very powerful article. The parallels with movie and historical versions of the "How the (American) West Was Won"-- are chilling, and too often overlooked. The passage regarding the mistreatment and poisoning of animals and people, but, beyond that, even the land itself-- all too familiar from American history. To destroy even the earth in order to posses it. ("We destroyed the village in order to liberate it," as was said in Vietnam. Was it now part of "God's Country"--or simply "Marlboro Country," with some smoldering butts among the "smoking ruins" and carcasses in the Agent Orange contaminated, cancerous, dying landscape?) William Carlos Williams wrote that "a poem is a machine made of words." That poetry can also be an "Intricate Machine" -- a question at the heart of words-- is it that language, like truth, is among the first victims of war? Or--the other way round--that war is among the first "victims" as it were of language? The "belief in words" and "the power of language" as an "Intricate Machine, "as generators of "Weapons of Mass Destruction": the forged "Italian Letter" and made-up "intelligence" of "Curveball," when cited by Colin Powell, Bush and Blair as "hard evidence" in "major addresses" to the Nation and United Nations-- paving the "Road to Baghdad" and "the Roadmap to Peace." When one considers such terms as "the material word" and "the thingness of virtual digital language" in the military parlance of "avant-garde" or "post avant"-- what exactly is meant by "material?" For example: "material" in military terms--"materiel," equipments and supplies for a mission, or, in commercial terms, the shipment of hardware and supplies via transport. "As usual, the only symptoms we had were in the language"--Pier Paulo Pasolini ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 11:04:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Baldwin Subject: second life workshop with Alan Sondheim and Sandy Baldwin Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline The workshop below is being held on Saturday, December 8, 2pm London time as part of _Intimacy: Across Visceral and Digital Performance_, at = Goldsmith's College, University of London. If you are interested in more information or in = participating, email Sandy Baldwin at charles.baldwin@mail.wvu.edu. SECOND LIFE WORKSHOP: AVATAR PASTE AND CODE SOUP IN FIRST AND SECOND LIFE Leaders: SANDY BALDWIN, West Virginia University & ALAN SONDHEIM This workshop will take place in the virtual world Second Life, and will be conducted by Alan Sondheim and Sandy Baldwin, with participation by other artists and performers in Second Life. Participants from the Intimacy conference will be supplied with location and others details within Second Life. The workshop emerges = from Sondheim and Baldwin's ongoing exploration of analog and digital bodies, using a range of technologies to remap the solid and obdurate real of bodies into the dispersions and virtualities of the digital, and then = back again into real physical spaces. The "avatar paste" of the title means at least three things. Firstly, the pasting of viewpoints together, the suturing of the subject into the avatar. Secondly, paste as glue, as half-liquid and = half solid, as a materiality of renewable and infinite pliability. This is = the chora of the avatar, the body matrix that is less a framework than a smearing of paste. And thirdly, paste as pasty and dis/comfortable substance, paste as slimy and dripping. While this abjection is already implicit in paste as glue, the pastiness of paste involves the projection= and dreaming through of the avatar, the inhabitation of avatar bodies = and the emptying of real bodies into the avatar. "Avatar paste" comes out in avatar motions and behaviors. Firstly, these are formed by symbolic orders, presenting surfaces to read in = terms of sexuality, power, emotion, and other projections. At the same time, the pasty avatar body tends towards collapse and abjection. Work on the avatar becomes a choreography of exposure and rupture, modeling and presenting inconceivable and untenable data, within which tensions and relationships are immediate and intimate. One might imagine, then, this inconceivable data as a form of organism itself: as part of a natural world or a world already given; out of this we might think through new ideas of landscape, wilderness, hard ecology, the earth itself. The workshop will theorize and demonstrate these topics. The first part discusses theoretical frameworks.Alan Sondheim will discuss topics of dismemberment, telepresence, and abjection in relation to the motion and behavior of Second Life avatars. Sandy Baldwin will discuss the topography of limits in Second Life, both body limits and spatial = limits, an connect this to issues of the hunt and animal display. He will also discuss the dynamics of performance and audience in Second Life. The second part of the workshop will show off Sondheim and Baldwin's approach to re-mapping live bodies into Second Life performance= s, including: video and other examples of motion capture and scanning; intermediate processing of files (e.g. editing .bvh data or working with Blender); and then the resulting works, including documents of Second Life performances and re-mappings back into "first life" spaces with dancers and other live performers. The final part of the workshop will include avatar performance by Sondheim, Baldwin, and other participants = in Second Life. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 11:31:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: OCHO 14, guest edited by Nick Piombino In-Reply-To: <50847.72.95.49.212.1196682548.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit OCHO 14, guest edited by Nick Piombino cover art by Toni Simon is available to order now at http://www.lulu.com/content/1388882 with work by Charles Bernstein Alan Davies Ray DiPalma Elaine Equi Nada Gordon Mitch Highfill Brenda Iijima Kimberly Lyons Sharon Mesmer Tim Peterson Corinne Robins Jerome Sala Gary Sullivan Mark Young Nico Vassilakis Publisher: Menendez Publishing Paperback book $16.94 Printed: 181 pages, 6" x 9", perfect binding, black and white interior ink Description: OCHO # 14 guest edited by Nick Piombino. Featuring Charles Bernstein, Alan Davies, Ray DiPalma, Elaine Equi, Nada Gordon, Kimberly Lyons, , Mitch Highfill, Brenda Iijima, Sharon Mesmer, Tim Peterson, Corinne Robins, Jerome Sala, Gary Sullivan, Mark Young and Nico Vassilakis. Cover art by Toni Simon. Go to the LuLu link above to check out the cover art, and a preview that includes an introduction to the issue by the guest editor. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 11:04:45 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Invalid RFC822 field - "=". Rest of header flushed. From: Paul Nelson Subject: Re: Feminism vs. Muslim Women? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Man Finally Put In Charge Of Struggling Feminist Movement=0A=09=09=09 =0A= =09=0A=09=09=09=09=09December 3, 2007 |=0A=09=09 =0A=09=0A=09=09=09=09=09W= ASHINGTON=97After decades=0Aspent battling gender discrimination and inequa= lity in the workplace,=0Athe feminist movement underwent a high-level shake= -up last month, when=0A53-year-old management consultant Peter "Buck" McGow= an took over as new=0Achief of the worldwide initiative for women's rights.= =0A=0A=0AMcGowan, who now oversees the group's day-to-day operations, said = he=0A"couldn't be happier" to bring his ambition, experience, and=0Ano-nons= ense attitude to his new role as the nation's top feminist.=0A=0A=0A"All th= e feminist movement needed to do was bring on someone who had=0Athe balls t= o do something about this glass ceiling business," said=0AMcGowan, who quic= kly closed the 23.5 percent gender wage gap by "making=0Aa few calls to the= big boys upstairs." "In the world of gender identity=0Aand empowered femal= e sexuality, it's all about who you know."=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AMcGowan, who= was selected from a pool of roughly 150 million=0Acandidates, made elimina= ting sexual harassment his first priority=0Abefore working on securing repr= oductive rights for women in all 50=0Astates, and promoting healthy body im= ages through an influx of strong,=0Aindependent female characters in TV, ma= gazines, and film.=0A=0A=0A"It's about time," McGowan said upon returning f= rom a golf game with=0Aseveral "network big boys" in which he brokered a de= al to bring a=0Avariety of women's sports to prime-time television. "These = ladies=0Ashould have brought me on years ago."=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AMcGowan claime= d that one of the main reasons the movement enjoyed so=0Alittle success in = the past was that the previous management was often=0Atoo timid and passive= and should have been much more results-focused.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A"You can't w= aste time pussyfooting around with protests and getting=0Aall emotional abo= ut a bunch of irrelevant details," McGowan said. "If=0Ayou want to enjoy eq= ual rights, you have to have a real man-to-man chat=0Awith the people in ch= arge until you can hammer out some more equitable=0Acustody laws."=0A=0A=0A= =0A=0A"And don't get me started on how disorganized and scatterbrained=0Ath= eir old fundraising methods were," McGowan added. "Let's just say the=0Amov= ement never really had a head for numbers."=0A=0A=0AAfter McGowan successfu= lly appointed three of his best men to lead =0ASmith College's women's stud= ies department and called in some favors to=0Aa number of powerful board ch= airmen to triple the number of female CEOs=0Ain Fortune 500 companies, anal= ysts predicted that the feminist movement=0Acould achieve all of McGowan's = goals by as early as 2009. =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A"With a charismatic, self-assured= guy like Pete pulling the strings,=0Awe might even see a female elected pr= esident one of these days," said=0ANathan Roth, an analyst at the Cato Inst= itute. "Finally, the feminist=0Amovement has a face that commands respect."= =0A=0A=0A=0A=0AMcGowan, however, said he didn't get into the business of wo= men's rights for the praise.=0A=0A=0A"What these women were able to accompl= ish with the little manpower=0Athey had is very impressive," McGowan said. = "I just bring a certain=0Asomething to the table=97I'm not sure what=97that= gave us that extra little=0Apush into complete female independence. I gues= s it just comes=0Anaturally."=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ABut despite his modesty, McGowa= n continues to garner praise from those closest to the cause.=0A=0A=0A"The = whole movement just seems more legitimate with Buck in charge,"=0Aleading f= eminist Gloria Steinem said at a gala dinner Friday. "His=0Adrive, focus, a= nd determination are truly remarkable. Mr. McGowan is a=0Aman with a plan."= =0A=0A=0A=0A=0AAlthough he has not hinted at any future projects after all = forms of=0Agender discrimination are a thing of the past, McGowan has vehem= ently=0Adenied rumors that he will leave the feminist movement to head up t= he=0Astruggle for gay rights.=0A=0A=0A=0A"The wife would kill me if I took = on any more hours," McGowan said. "I'm sure those fellows know how that goe= s." =0APaul E. Nelson, M.A. =0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Chris= topher Walker =0ATo: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=0ASent:= Monday, December 3, 2007 7:48:42 AM=0ASubject: Re: Feminism vs. Muslim Wom= en?=0A=0A=0A=0AI have often wondered why some of the most vocal criti= cs of America's =0Ainvolvement in Iraq are some of those who would have the= most to loose=0A under =0ASharia law=0A=0A=0AIt might be worth your = looking at the history of women's rights under =0ASaddam's Ba'athism. It wa= sn't what you seem to think it was. The =0Adiversionary invasion of Iraq by= the current US administration=0A (arguably it =0Awas illegal, certainly it= was founded on untruths; so mere self=0A interest =0Amight not be the only= criterion for objecting to it, even were your=0A implicit =0Aassumption an= ything like correct, which it is not) has set back women's=0A =0Arights in = Iraq by some decades. Unfortunately that may be almost the=0A very =0Aleast= of what it has done.=0A=0ACW=0A___________________________________________= ____=0A=0A'How Much Better if Plymouth Rock Had Landed on the=0APilgrims' (= piece by David Rosenboom 1969-72) =0A=0A=0A=0A ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 11:35:02 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eric Dickey Subject: Re: Feminism vs. Muslim Women? In-Reply-To: <002a01c835c3$fbb3ab50$0600a8c0@your403379e445> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit These kinds of discussions really get my blood boiling although the response by Alison is very good. Thank you for that Alison. The writer of the first post is as conservative as is Christina Hoff Summers, who is well-known for attacking feminism for all kinds of things, including arguing that it is boys who are more at risk than girls. If there is a voice of right wing "feminism" its Hoff Summers. She tries to take down the icons of US feminism on a regular basis. Muslim women are as vast an assortment as are women in the industrialized western world. A friend's daughter-in-law is Muslim and feminist and does not suffer any of the crimes against her that the poster mentions. A coworker is Muslim, she's more self-assured than most of the western people I know. Why does the poster concern herself with female genital mutilation and not botox, breast enlargement, high heels, eating disorders and all the other ways western women self-mutilate? Is it that FGM is forced? Beauty stereotypes are forced, too. Don't kid yourself. Western women suffer just as many injustices as muslim women, they're just different kinds of injustices. How many of us know someone who was raped or molested or someone who faced ridicule on the job or at home? For goodness sake, even Hillary Clinton is regarded first as a bitch and not at all for her exemplary leadership. She won 70% of the votes in her last senate run. But all we read about is how much clevage she shows. I'm not pro-Hillary, she's not Green enough for me, or progressive enough. Now, I'm not one to say that we should deal with our own issues first, and that we don't have any ground to stand on in regards to "correcting" other cultures, because, frankly, we are other cultures. We are together, and any injustice to a woman is an injustice to each one of us, man or woman, muslim, christian, jew, agnostic, atheist, buddhist... Finally, here is a web site that has more on women's health: http://www.unifem.org/campaigns/vaw/ Christopher Walker wrote: I have often wondered why some of the most vocal critics of America's involvement in Iraq are some of those who would have the most to loose under Sharia law It might be worth your looking at the history of women's rights under Saddam's Ba'athism. It wasn't what you seem to think it was. The diversionary invasion of Iraq by the current US administration (arguably it was illegal, certainly it was founded on untruths; so mere self interest might not be the only criterion for objecting to it, even were your implicit assumption anything like correct, which it is not) has set back women's rights in Iraq by some decades. Unfortunately that may be almost the very least of what it has done. CW _______________________________________________ 'How Much Better if Plymouth Rock Had Landed on the Pilgrims' (piece by David Rosenboom 1969-72) --------------------------------- Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 15:01:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Bio Pic Nominees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 examples -- Great bio pics that have little to do with their subjects: Lady Sings the Blues The Barretts of Wimpole Street This year's worst bio pic: Talk to Me Some actually good bio pics, actually about their subjects: Coal Miner's Daughter A Mighty Heart (despite the fact that the title sounds like one of Christopher Guest's parodies) Hoffa <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We are enslaved by what makes us free -- intolerable paradox at the heart of speech. --Robert Kelly Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 13:09:03 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Re: Feminism vs. Muslim Women? & "Holocaust Ban in UK Schools" chain letter//Mr Haynes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline The source for the article in question re feminism and Muslim Women" is: politicalfriends.blogspot.com/2007/07/feminism-vs-muslim-women.html the article is written by a (white) American male-- I don't check sources in order to embarrass anyone or seem to be attacking them--to say they are "wrong" and i am "right"-- i do so simply because of the attention and care with writing that, if one claims to do so with the writing and reading of one's own works and those of others-- this same needs to be brought, especially in times of war, threats of war, invasions, occupations, torture, hate mongering-- i.e. in terms of everyday life as a reader existing in a world barraged by text--everywhere--and the combinations of texts with images, sounds, vehicles, screens--text messaging--instant messengering--faxes-- this attention and cares needs to be given to all texts--as much as possible-- i realize that as the recent discussion of the superiority of poetry over fiction evinced, the "willing suspension of disbelief" associated with the "inferior" work of fiction-- is amazingly considered to be non-operative when persons, even poets, read non-fiction prose-- which any good writer of prose, whether fiction or not, knows-- as well as do a great many of the world's disseminators of lies, propaganda, censorships of omission and commission, deliberate mis- and distranslations and the daily spew-stew of pure unadulterated bullshit served up hot and steaming in the form of advertising-- I realize that the days of "the committed writer"--dim, jerky, far away, a Franco-American persona, genre, novel/film/faits divers collage, a cross bred hybrid of philosophy, action/activism, and B movies, strange poetry and "existentialist" images filtered through black and white Nouvelle Vague flicks in a Paris during the Algerian War-- seem very much "out of date" for many -- yet that doesn't mean the end to the "committed reader" as well does it?-- who is perhaps the only form of "committed writer" left standing if one is --paradoxically--"committed" to the doxa of Formalism-- at any rate, checking sources is vital, literally a matter of life and death-- (though seeing again recently Battle of Algiers with a packed house of UW-M students--who recognized right away they are watching today's footage from Iraq and Palestine as basically this same film, with only changes of location and media equipments and much more devastating weaponry--and still very much the issue of torture--and the amount of energy and passion the film generated--the sudden YES!--of recognition and connection--was very powerful to see and hear and be in--) Since i get a great deal of news from a variety of sources, this has been a continaul reminder to check into the sources, before i get too carried away by a nice juicy headline or what seems like a story that is particulalry "appealing to me"-- Another example of this problem "arrived on my desk today" as the old school comitted writer might write-- Today via Facebook also received a posting that had been being forwarded by Leevi Letho, a chain letter to be forwarded far and wide, called "Holocaust Ban in KY Schools" this was followed by a note from a friend in which the falsity of this article was revealed and included also another note in this regard with a brief comment by Leevi: Re the post I recently forwarded to your "FunWall", concerning "Holocaust Ban in UK Schools", a friend of mine sends this link to a corrective page: http://www.hoax-slayer.com/uk-holocaust-removal.shtml Forwarding from Leevi Lehto: For another, more comprehensive report of the background, check: http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/holocaust.asp Well, while the first link seems to be wrong (and misguided) in claiming that there's NO truth in the chain letter, this does not change the fact that it's a hoax. I should have thought twice to NOT forward it - the more so because I share the general concern expressed in the letter. - Leevi I wrote back the following reply, which I feel applies here also-- I don't think "hoax" is the right word to use when lies are disseminated in order to manipulate and exacerbate hatred and war, the threats of war. One has to examine the sources from which a great many messages these days originate, for very often they turn out to be suspect, in both content and design, intent. Just because one may support some part of a message does not justify the use of smears, falsehoods and propaganda in the name of historical truths. The American Invasion of Iraq was justified by citing as "hard evidence" "information" known to be forged ("the Italian Letter"'s "sixteen words") and from an informant ("Curveball") who was known to be deliberately lying. Millions die because of such "hoaxes" which are known by the perpetrators to be lies. It's really i can't repeat it enough, important to doublecheck sources, masked intentions, whether or not one agrees with some part of the message. -this is meant for Leevi as he mentioned the word "hoax--but truly i feel very strongly one needs to check sources before sending on things--so much "information" can turn out to be "disinformation" and it is extremely dangerous--thoughout history disinformation has been turned into propaganda and in turn into wars--) re the "committed cinema" and "writer" and "reader"-- Andy Gricevich quoted Todd Haynes quoting Fassbinder (or was he, really?--)--to the effect that the revolution does not belong on the screen on the wall, but outside, in the streets. What no one is thinking about is that Revolution for the two film makers historically meant very different things. And that for Haynes historically, as a lived experience shaping his thinking and work, it is the Reagan Revolution. Haynes mystifyingly describes cinema not as a projection of light and shadows on a wall, but as a "reflection". Since he is "author" of his works--are we not watching then a film of Mr Haynes himself up there as a "reflection" on the wall of the screen? Did you really think the film is "about" Bob Dylan? Or simply the exhaustion and entropy of a culture "reflected" by and as Mr Haynes--with the creaking devices of many an old movie, play and novel--including the one of actors of various sexes and ages playing a celebrity/protagonist who is "really" "the author" "in search of movie"- viewed as a series of retellings of the same old incidents, the same old jokes, the same old "restagings" or "refound footage. The film's title, "I'm Not There"--is very true for mr Dylan--because it is Mr Haynes who is there. You can find Bob Dylan down the street, his road from the coffeehouses of Dinkytown having led to the globalized coffeehouses of Starbucks, which is a distributor for not only his new CDs and the special packages for the PBS Soundtrack, but also--how darling!--bootlegs of his very early coffee houses appearances. I wrote a letter analyzing the quoted text of Mr Haynes'--but it was perhaps fortunately lost by an accidental hitting of the wrong key-- i haven't had such a good laugh in the way of an example of pretentious doublespeak in a couple of days-- if you read it carefully what he is saying is basically that--i encourage you to think about my movie after it is over-- as the title of one of his films says, don't worry, this is a very "Safe" film-- many thanks to Andy for quoting this Note-- this is the article which is the text of the forwards and comment by Leevi Lehto It is a matter of history that when Supreme Commander of the Allied Forces, General Dwight Eisenhower, found the victims of the death camps, he ordered all possible photographs to be taken, and for the German people from surrounding villages to be ushered through the camps and even made to bury the dead. He did this because he said in words to this effect: 'Get it all on record now - get the films - get the witnesses - because somewhere down the track of history some bastard will get up and say that this never happened.' In Memorial This week, the UK removed The Holocaust from its school curriculum because it 'offended' the Muslim population which claims it never occurred. This is a frightening portent of the fear that is gripping the world and how easily each country is giving into it. It is now more than 60 years after the Second World War in Europe ended. This email is being sent as a memorial chain, in memory of the 6 million Jews, 20 million Russians, 10 million Christians and 1,900 Catholic priests who were murdered, massacred, raped, burned, starved and humiliated while the German and Russia peoples looking the other way. Now, more than ever, with Iran, among others, claiming the Holocaust to be a `myth`, it is imperative to make sure the world NEVER forgets. This email is intended to reach 40 million people worldwide. Be a link in the memorial chain and help distribute this around the world. Don't just delete this. It will take a minute to pass this along. 'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing'. Edmund Burke On Dec 3, 2007 7:48 AM, Christopher Walker wrote: > > I have often wondered why some of the most vocal critics of America's > involvement in Iraq are some of those who would have the most to loose under > Sharia law > > > It might be worth your looking at the history of women's rights under > Saddam's Ba'athism. It wasn't what you seem to think it was. The > diversionary invasion of Iraq by the current US administration (arguably it > was illegal, certainly it was founded on untruths; so mere self interest > might not be the only criterion for objecting to it, even were your implicit > assumption anything like correct, which it is not) has set back women's > rights in Iraq by some decades. Unfortunately that may be almost the very > least of what it has done. > > CW > _______________________________________________ > > 'How Much Better if Plymouth Rock Had Landed on the > Pilgrims' (piece by David Rosenboom 1969-72) > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 16:25:39 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: Review of Best American Poetry 2004 on JBP MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit New on Joe Brainard's Pyjamas: a poem-by-poem review of the Best American Poetry 2004, "The Vietnamese Deer Reflection Station" (a chapbook-length poem engendered by a dream by yours truly) and new poetry by Luis Cuauhtemoc Berriozabal and others, Documented Parthogenesis and Congratulations to Iceland, among other things (like a request for Christian Bok to leave A.L.I.C.E. (My Love) Alone....) These and sundries can be found at _http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/_ (http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/) **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 13:27:38 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jen Tynes Subject: Horse Less anthology call for submissions & new mailing list request In-Reply-To: <81e468cd0712031225y6687fb32t5a58540d1718f782@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Below is a call for submissions from HORSE LESS PRESS for our first print anthology. Our schedule has shifted a little, so we've extended the deadline for submissions to January 31. Additionally, our mailing list has been disappeared! Whether you were on the old list or not, if you'd like to receive somewhat regular -- but not at all overwhelming -- notices from HORSE LESS PRESS, please email horselesssubmissions@gmail.com with "subscribe" in the subject line. Coming soon: chapbooks from Alex Lemon and Sampson Starkweather. CALL FOR SUBMISSIONS HORSE LESS PRESS will publish a print anthology in 2008. THE THEME is response. WE ARE INTERESTED in the following 1) writings that respond to, collaborate with, collage from, extend, elaborate, etc. a piece of writing that HAS APPEARED in horse less review, 2) COLLABORATIONS WITH WRITERS who've been published by horse less press or review, 3) BEGINNINGS, FRAGMENTS, PROPOSALS, HALF-MADE WORKS which desire some attention. We may also be interested in collaborative or response-based writings that do not fall into these categories. Please query early if you have an idea. SUBMISSIONS GO to horselessresponse at gmail dot com. Our deadline is January 31, 2007. Send work IN THE BODY of email or as a single word, rtf, or pdf file. IN A COVER letter please tell us a little about yourself and a little about the work you are submitting. PLEASE CLARIFY whether your submission falls into category 1, 2, 3. If #1, MAKE SURE you identify the source work. IF YOU NEED MORE information, visit our website or send questions to the above email address. http://www.horselesspress.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 07:48:59 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alexander Jorgensen Subject: Toot-toot! Shameless self-promotion 2 In-Reply-To: Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 http://www.alexanderjorgensen.com agj -- Alexander Jorgensen bangdrum@fastmail.fm -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Access all of your messages and folders wherever you are ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 19:13:09 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tony Hooper Subject: Re: iggy + passenger In-Reply-To: <475050C5.9060905@umn.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Yeah, that's a good old Iggy Pop song, for sure. He definitely surpassed it when he did this song with the Teddybears, last year or so?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIiP-aAaupA It's the ultimate driving song. Tony On Nov 30, 2007 12:04 PM, Maria Damon wrote: > I looked up the lyrics (thanks Caleb) and the line wasn't there, but i > cd swear i hear him say it in the performance. > > Barry Schwabsky wrote: > > If he doesn't--then it's yours! > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: Maria Damon > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Sent: Wednesday, 28 November, 2007 4:30:15 PM > > Subject: iggy + passenger > > > > just enjoying iggy's "the passenger" on youtube. does he really say > > "all the clouds and the black guitars"? > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 17:24:00 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: "How the West Was Won": A Moral Witness to the 'Intricate Machine' - The New York Review of Books In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit i agree that was a good article. but anytime nyrb spills any ink about poetry, it's bound to be snororous. the same issue you refer to, there's a big article on the poetry of edward arlington robinson. and maybe some other snororific 2x4poborer. i guess there's just nobody home with a clue about poetry at nyrb. ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 13:18:58 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Caleb Cluff Subject: Re: iggy + passenger MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Take the line Maria. Iggy would give it to you, I'm sure...=20 -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Tony Hooper Sent: Tuesday, 4 December 2007 12:13 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: iggy + passenger Yeah, that's a good old Iggy Pop song, for sure. He definitely surpassed it when he did this song with the Teddybears, last year or so?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DFIiP-aAaupA It's the ultimate driving song. Tony On Nov 30, 2007 12:04 PM, Maria Damon wrote: > I looked up the lyrics (thanks Caleb) and the line wasn't there, but i > cd swear i hear him say it in the performance. > > Barry Schwabsky wrote: > > If he doesn't--then it's yours! > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: Maria Damon > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Sent: Wednesday, 28 November, 2007 4:30:15 PM > > Subject: iggy + passenger > > > > just enjoying iggy's "the passenger" on youtube. does he really say > > "all the clouds and the black guitars"? > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D The information contained in this email and any attachment is = confidential and may contain legally privileged or copyright material. It is intended = only for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient of = this email, you are not permitted to disseminate, distribute or copy this = email or any attachments. If you have received this message in error, please = notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. The ABC does = not represent or warrant that this transmission is secure or virus free. = Before opening any attachment you should check for viruses. The ABC's = liability is limited to resupplying any email and attachments =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 22:19:13 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: iggy + passenger In-Reply-To: <505ce3300712031713v54c4c99ao5c7a15e8e20ba5d6@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit well, but the live performance aspect of the 1977 concert Passenger is so compelling in his case. though it is nice to see someone aging with panache now. Tony Hooper wrote: > Yeah, that's a good old Iggy Pop song, for sure. He definitely surpassed it > when he did this song with the Teddybears, last year or so?: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIiP-aAaupA > > It's the ultimate driving song. > > > Tony > > > > > > > On Nov 30, 2007 12:04 PM, Maria Damon wrote: > > >> I looked up the lyrics (thanks Caleb) and the line wasn't there, but i >> cd swear i hear him say it in the performance. >> >> Barry Schwabsky wrote: >> >>> If he doesn't--then it's yours! >>> >>> ----- Original Message ---- >>> From: Maria Damon >>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>> Sent: Wednesday, 28 November, 2007 4:30:15 PM >>> Subject: iggy + passenger >>> >>> just enjoying iggy's "the passenger" on youtube. does he really say >>> "all the clouds and the black guitars"? >>> >>> ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 00:55:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: rehearsal material for Intimacy on obscenity, avatar, nothing (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed (apologies for the length) (Sandy Baldwin, You; Alan Sondheim, Alan Dojoji) [18:44] You: My avatars! My little people! They run around everywhere, underfoot. I will play a song, a little aire, a jig or rondelay! [18:45] Alan Dojoji: There's nothing about us that isn't caressed by language, that isn't languaging. There's nothing about us that isn't read or inscribed; the real itself is an inscription, as far as we're concerned. [18:45] Alan Dojoji: You might consider tattoos for example, or any gesture one might make... [18:46] sandy Taifun: sidecar [18:46] Sidecar Potluck: friends [18:47] Sidecar Potluck: nice boots conscious and formal systems. [18:49] You: transformed new early version of the avatar 'outt' behavior [18:49] You: the avatar is blue in a construct-space of outt-structure. [18:49] You: each avatar-video or each avatar-performance is different in content from each other but not in degree. [18:49] You: sukara, dakshinanila, nandiskandhardhara, dhurya, prakata, pritvardhana, aparajita, sarvasattva, govinda, adhrita [18:51] Alan Dojoji: lecture given by a worm... [18:51] You: All water is a kind of milk [18:51] Alan Dojoji: or some such, a section of tissue [18:51] Sidecar Potluck: i hope the worm is contagious, lecturer [18:51] Alan Dojoji: We're further driven by desires; even the development or discovery of a formal system is dependent upon our wanting to develop or discover such. [18:54] Alan Dojoji: For me the emphasis is mess - nothing is as clean as it seems - we're coded in the virtual [19:08] Sidecar Potluck: sure. I'm enjoying the view [19:13] Alan Dojoji: The body is made to appear as if internal tissues are unfolding between the legs - [19:13] Alan Dojoji: This is done by color saturation, [19:13] Alan Dojoji: One of the things I try to point out is that these bodies, all of them, [19:13] Alan Dojoji: are composed of sheaves - sheave-bodies - [19:13] Alan Dojoji: In this sense they relate to tantra, mandalas, tankas, images which are to be imagined [19:13] Alan Dojoji: internally [19:14] Alan Dojoji: and as such lead one to enlightenment - [19:14] Alan Dojoji: but the image itself - there's nothing 'beyond' it - [19:14] Alan Dojoji: It actually breaks with the ikonic/symbolic/indexical symbolic categories of Peirce for example [19:14] Alan Dojoji: It creates a psychoanalytic semiotics which is irreducible. [19:21] Alan Dojoji: Language, behavior, the 'primnordial,' etc,, are all mixed in together [19:21] Alan Dojoji: as are the so-called virtual and the real... [19:22] Alan Dojoji: This debris also relates to other issues - geopolitical, ecological ones - [19:23] Alan Dojoji: the human as a kind of aggressive gaping maw, absorbing the world for whatever genetic reasons drive it [19:23] Alan Dojoji: - and with technology, drive it to annihilation, along with everything around it. [19:24] You: Yes. [19:24] You: Hello and thank you for attending AVATAR PASTE AND CODE SOUP IN FIRST AND SECOND LIFE. Sandy Baldwin, who is in Morgantown West Virginia, will be speaking through me. The workshop will also be led by Alan Sondheim, who i n is in Brooklyn, New York. [19:32] You: None of this is true, none of this as matter of true. He and I never touch. Nothing happens here in and on a screen that plays out sprites and their gestures. [19:33] You: Through this interdisciplinary mixing of tools and collaborators, Alan radically imagined the uses of virtual technology at WVU. Of course, there's a long tradition of creative misuse of technology. [19:34] You: The aesthetics of the glitch music, for example, explores the misuse of the CD. There's an initial similarity in Alan's work here: working against the seeming purpose of the tools, refusing the normative bodies mapped into these virtual spaces, wild dancing and utterance in spaces where we are supposed to be still and silent before the machine, an _ethical_ insisting on the pressure and weight and yet ineluctable absence of the body in virtuality. [19:34] You: But it would not be wrong to insist that a distinction be made: misuse or glitch is not the goal but means for consciousness and intention to problematize their inhabitation of the technology. This is seance and tantra. [19:34] You: The results are inspiring, awesome. They are also utterly alien, but alien in the sense of the alien that I am and that inhabits me and that is there when I shed the skins of habit. [19:34] You: The results can be understood as works, works of art. They are works, as well, of the real and the virtual, worked over virtualities, so that the work of art is trembling with the work of the artist. [19:35] You: The results are endless and undetermined. They form in chains and links from dancing bodies to clouds of code to avatars to writings and on and on. [19:36] You: Alan, the floor is yours. [19:37] Alan Dojoji: I want to begin by typing and comment on tantra - [19:37] Alan Dojoji: This is Buddhist, not Hindu/Shivite tantra, which I have little interest in [19:37] Alan Dojoji: But i'm interested in first of all notions of emptiness [19:37] Alan Dojoji: Which are unable to be defined and which constitute the core of Mahayana philosophy [19:38] Alan Dojoji: And within this interest, there are what I could call illuminations [19:38] Alan Dojoji: that is referencing deity which does not exist, inhabiting, taking the deity upon oneself as non-existence [19:38] Alan Dojoji: until the deity canbe discarded [19:38] Alan Dojoji: There's an odd parallel in Second Life, since these avatar figures are basically sheaves, prims [19:38] Alan Dojoji: When you get close, when you close in on your own avatar, you see (physical) [19:39] Alan Dojoji: emptiness within, [19:39] Alan Dojoji: nothing but a collection of parts which relate to each other, seem somehow joined, but really are just contingent [19:39] Alan Dojoji: So tantra relates to this and to the tremendous power of projection possible in these spaces [19:39] Alan Dojoji: On the other hand the projections are safe, distanced, cleansed, always pure, purified; there's no dirt in Second Life, [19:40] Alan Dojoji: perhaps noise of one sort or another, but no dirty - hacking's not dirty for example, it rides and invades the same protocols we're using, just in a (fundamentally) different way [19:40] Alan Dojoji: Ok, anway to continue - [19:40] Alan Dojoji: I'm interested in the relationship between conscious and formal systems. [19:41] Alan Dojoji: Consciousnessness is outside formal systems; formal systems are the protocols perhaps ridden by consciousness [19:41] Alan Dojoji: Our relationship to formal systems is related to how we make sense of the world. [19:41] Alan Dojoji: By 'formal system' I don't mean axioms - [19:41] Alan Dojoji: just a coherent collection of 'vectors' repressenting objects and transformations [19:42] Alan Dojoji: To make sense of the world we have to consider our bodies, our selves. It's clear for example that a 'healthy body' sees the world differently than a sick one. [19:42] Alan Dojoji: And that a depressed mind senses a different world than, say, an optimist would. [19:42] Alan Dojoji: Not to mention an aroused mind, or a disgusted mind, [19:42] Alan Dojoji: We tend to assume a 'purity' of mind or rational-mind in order to comprehend the world philosophically, but there's really no reason for this [19:43] Alan Dojoji: In any case - [19:43] Alan Dojoji: We're further driven by desires; even the development or discovery of a formal system is dependent upon our wanting to develop or discover such. [19:44] Alan Dojoji: Now, [19:44] Alan Dojoji: Desires are like icebergs - their ostensible content might be the peak above the sea, but beneath the surface lies darker matter, abject matter. [19:45] Alan Dojoji: It's this matter that I'm interested in, the abject or obscenity that makes us human, even beyond the guise or presentation of language. [19:45] Alan Dojoji: Now obscenity is interesting [19:45] Alan Dojoji: I heard a lecture by Pinker on language and the 'stuff of thought' [19:45] Alan Dojoji: and he talked about obscenity in relation to primitive areas of the brain; [19:45] Alan Dojoji: obscenity isn't processed in the same way as other languaging is [19:46] Alan Dojoji: In fact it elicits a reaction (mostly negative) that bypasses consciousness [19:46] Alan Dojoji: So that you can tap into the abject, the emotional, the dirty, etc., within the digital [19:46] Alan Dojoji: through sexuality, the obscene. [19:47] Alan Dojoji: Violence here is different - it's cartoon-like - but sexuality is more directed [19:47] Alan Dojoji: Technically, representations of sexuality here are ikonic in a sense; they act directly, whereas violence, I think, works through the indexical - [19:47] Alan Dojoji: it 'points to obscenity' but not much more... [19:47] Alan Dojoji: Now to the virtual [19:47] Alan Dojoji: The virtual is everywhere, the virtual is symbolic, inscription, an index of our relationship with the real. Our bodies are as virtual as anything online; we're a mess of codes and protccols, languages, drives, instincts, communications, cries and warnings. [19:48] Alan Dojoji: There's nothing about us that isn't caressed by language, that isn't languaging. There's nothing about us that isn't read or inscribed; the real itself is an inscription, as far as we're concerned. [19:49] Alan Dojoji: But this is a mess - what's language and what's not language, what's pure body and what's not pure body, what's thinking and what's not - it's all a mess [19:49] Alan Dojoji: outside of emptiness, which is another issue, or not an issue at all [19:50] Alan Dojoji: So I'm trying to deal with this mess, with consciousness beyond or beneath language, with obscenity, with the real,m the virtual, working through models and other ways of exploration [19:50] Alan Dojoji: I model the ostensible carapace, the outer layers of the human and human behavior, the layers in space, transforming through time, morphing, dividing in both conceivable and inconceivable patterns. [19:50] Alan Dojoji: And though this modeling, I hope to better understand what it means to BE human, particularly in relation to all of that debris beneath the surface, our obscene nature itself. [19:51] Alan Dojoji: Why obscene? Because this nature is read, processed differently than cool speech or conversation; this nature constructs readings and writings, and for that matter communication beyond or preceding language [19:53] Alan Dojoji: The body appears as if its very tissues were come out of the genital region, [19:53] Alan Dojoji: as if it were coming apart, opening [19:53] Alan Dojoji: But in reality - two things - [19:54] Alan Dojoji: First, the body is composedonly of prims, sheaves which have no thickness (well, a pixel or so) [19:54] Alan Dojoji: And there's nothing behind these prims, just emptiness - [19:54] Alan Dojoji: And second, that the idea of tissues is rally suggested [19:54] Alan Dojoji: by oversaturating the color in the image, nothing more... [19:54] Alan Dojoji: Sandy, can you take over for a minute or two ? [19:55] You: Yes. [19:55] Alan Dojoji: I want people to look at the hhhhh files [19:55] Alan Dojoji: file [19:55] Alan Dojoji: perhaps you can describe it? [19:55] You: OK. Please look at hhhhh [19:56] Alan Dojoji: (Voice and music, Azure Carter, words mine) [19:56] Alan Dojoji: Avatars, Sandy and myself [19:56] You: The space is also here in odyssey - another part of Odyssey [19:56] Alan Dojoji: Space - I think this is Gaz's space 'above' the normal space of Second Life [19:56] Alan Dojoji: It's actually outside the gamespace itself [19:57] You: The song is a kind of keening in relation to the real, and the dance, the two of us, is about that limin of real and virtual [19:58] You: I see in the video: dance (choreography, both in Sandy Taifun's somewhat distorted but still "masculine" coded body and dress), [19:58] You: but also a kind of mating dance, a back and forth of ritual courtship [19:59] You: but also fighting, masculine egos at war [19:59] You: but all this is a matter of reading, of the spectator [19:59] Alan Dojoji: For me, this could be more successful on my end, we're stll working on control [19:59] You: The texts are grabbed out of the vast internet text of Alan's writing. [20:00] Sidecar Potluck: it's phenomenal [20:00] You: Alan, you mean you're looking at control, not hhh? [20:00] Alan Dojoji: In the sense of phenomena or the sense [20:00] Alan Dojoji: No I mean that I want to add some things from the text [20:01] Alan Dojoji: r the sense of terrific? [20:01] You: Oh, I see, yes, do add. [20:01] Sidecar Potluck: yes. [20:01] Sidecar Potluck: both. [20:01] Alan Dojoji: It's phenomenal in the way that phenomena are difficult to describe or limit, border [20:01] Alan Dojoji: Anyway in relation to human nature, if such exists [20:01] Alan Dojoji: anyway this nature contructs, let's say, states of affairs that, in terms of organism, might be considered PRIMORDIAL, uncomfortable, construing presence itself, desire, an awakening in the world, fear, dis/ease - anything before the world shuts down in relation to language, to the processing of language. [20:02] Alan Dojoji: Again, it's complex: [20:02] Alan Dojoji: anyway this nature contructs, let's say, states of affairs that, in terms of organism, might be considered PRIMORDIAL, uncomfortable, construing presence itself, desire, an awakening in the world, fear, dis/ease - anything before the world shuts down in relation to language, to the processing of language. [20:02] Alan Dojoji: The world shuts down in relation to death; it also shuts down in relation to obscenity, the abject [20:03] Alan Dojoji: By the world 'shutting down' I mean a kind of turning-away, turning inward, interiority [20:03] Alan Dojoji: So: [20:03] Alan Dojoji: I began by thinking about the repertoire of human physical behaviors, what the body can or cannot do; I used motion capture equipment to record and modify the behaviors. The equipment installs behaviors into files, much as labanotation filed away dance - it's a form of dance notation - much as film records movement. [20:04] Alan Dojoji: These files are bvh files, of which more in a bit. [20:04] Alan Dojoji: Please go to, hmmm.... anitaberberr.mp4 - this is an old piece [20:05] Alan Dojoji: In the center, Maud Liardon is dancing; on the left and right are two avatars imitating (to an extent) what she's doing, but only to an extent [20:05] Alan Dojoji: They're mirror images of each other, [20:06] Alan Dojoji: The movement was hand-crafted in relation to the video of Maud and then superimposed [20:06] Alan Dojoji: You don't have to run the whole thing to get the idea here [20:07] You: But what about when Foofwa enters? [20:07] Alan Dojoji: He's entering into the Maud-space, not the avatar space, he moves in and out; the avatars keep dancing [20:07] You: ok [20:07] Alan Dojoji: You might think of him as a meta-diegesis - in other words outside the narrative but nonetheless controlling it; it's his choreography [20:08] Alan Dojoji: Please open jungamer.mp4 [20:08] You: I'd wonder about the earlier terms "shutting down" and interiority in relation to these examples? [20:08] Alan Dojoji: You might also want to come closer to my moving figure here - [20:08] Alan Dojoji: I can't answer that at the moment? [20:08] You: ok [20:09] Alan Dojoji: I'm not sure where you mean; I'm running off thebasic description I prepared but we can go back to this afterwards. [20:09] You: no, its fine - a question for later [20:09] Alan Dojoji: Now about the bvh files - [20:09] Alan Dojoji: So these files, which contained behaviors, were then used to reconstruct such behaviors with mannequins, avatars, in two different kinds of spaces -ones that were completely recorded, like film itself, and ones that were live and in real time - so that a viewer might walk about an avatar behaving in a particular way, in a particular live space. [20:10] Alan Dojoji: This is, of coursem the real time space. [20:10] Alan Dojoji: Now how was this done? Since I started with human beings and encoded their behaviors, how were the behaviors made so violently impossible? [20:11] Alan Dojoji: But more than that - the behaviors themselves were INCONCEIVABLY CODED, that is, created in such a way as to presence an impossible body - which then becomes a distorted body, a body transformed by the pressue, for example, of war, of torture, of incandescent sexuality - an impossible body - [20:11] Alan Dojoji: But a body that, being impossible, also represents our desires in the world, desires which, if they could, would take apart a real body, dissolve it in the throes of passion. [20:12] Alan Dojoji: In other words, the behaviors do 'violence' to the virtual body [20:12] Alan Dojoji: The techniques are surgical, cutting and suturing - separating and bringing together. The operations occur first in real life; when a participant wears a motion capture harnass, a number of sensors are aligned with her body parts - left leg sensor on the left leg, neck sensor on the neck, and so forth. [20:12] Alan Dojoji: (again) [20:12] Alan Dojoji: We rearrange these sensors, splitting them among a number of people, reorienting them; the body maps become distorted, impossible. [20:13] Alan Dojoji: We ask the participants to move. We record the impossible movements of a single body. [20:13] Alan Dojoji: In other words, the sensors might be applied upside-down, or split between two people, etc. [20:13] Alan Dojoji: Such distortions speak of desire and dismemberment, torture and ecstasy [20:14] Alan Dojoji: The recording is in the form of a file which is fed into one of three applications: a 3-D modeling application, where abstract forms are mapped onto the recording, resulting in an 'abstract performance' or 'performer' - a mannequin modeling application, where human forms are mapped onto the recording, resulting in considerable distortion - distortion - [20:14] Alan Dojoji: And a 'live' virtual space, where the behavior recordings are used in live avatar performance. I'll demonstrate these in turn. I'll also demonstrate various ways and results of scanning the body itself. [20:15] sandy Taifun: that's beautiful [20:15] Alan Dojoji: In stripped, the file is fed intoa 3d modeling program, Blender [20:15] Alan Dojoji: and objects are assigned to the sensor nodes - [20:15] Alan Dojoji: in other words, instead of, say, a neck on a neck, [20:15] Alan Dojoji: one of these shapes might be assigned to the neck, etc. [20:16] Alan Dojoji: So you get this abstract model of tensions and the interiority of movement withoout the carapace of the body itself [20:16] Alan Dojoji: Sandy, how long have we gone here? [20:17] Alan Dojoji: Sandy, how long have we gone here? [20:17] You: alan: about 50 minutes [20:18] Alan Dojoji: so you'reseeing the joints from within, the nearest I've gotten to organs here... [20:18] Alan Dojoji: Sandy, do you want to take over for a while? Shall we quit for a bit? [20:18] Alan Dojoji: What does everyone else think of this - please give us feedback [20:18] You: I think take a break. Perhaps get notes on the logistics from others? [20:19] You: How did this work for y'all? [20:19] Sidecar Potluck: It's very good. And it works well. [20:20] Sidecar Potluck: A couple comments, if that's okay: one conceptual / theoretical and one technical / performance [20:20] Alan Dojoji: Ok [20:20] You: Of course, this is just a part - oh yes, comments. [20:20] Sidecar Potluck: I really like that you're presenting a new (or at least alternative) aesthetic of the abject [20:21] Sidecar Potluck: The performance of this works well as a marriage of the concept and the thing itself [20:21] Sidecar Potluck: I can literally see what you're saying [20:21] Alan Dojoji: Other comments? [20:22] Sidecar Potluck: yes~ the additional materal works very well [20:22] Alan Dojoji: Does it load quickly enough? [20:22] Sidecar Potluck: hhhhh is great [20:22] Sidecar Potluck: it loads quickly, but it's a bit tricky to find the files to which you refer [20:22] snarkl Aeon: well . . . i'm not working from my laptop [20:22] You: Jeremy: do you see problems with the directions or the method (going back and forth) [20:22] You: or nick, do you see problems? [20:22] snarkl Aeon: so it's quite fast on the clc computers [20:23] Sidecar Potluck: going back and forth wasn't terribly rough, and it works well as is... [20:26] You: So, what would happen: [20:26] You: we would go on in a similar fashion. [20:26] You: I have more talk that I'm still preparing, about audience and other things. [20:26] You: And then we dance. [20:27] You: remediations, mediations, projectivities, introjectivities, phenomenologies, histories, and mechanics, of avatars [20:27] You: Extruded intruded (upon) body: cleansed bodies of the continuous middle-eastern 'war' [20:27] You: armored bodies and imaginary journeys (Rhine, England); sexualized bodies: [20:27] Alan Dojoji: At the moment, I have to go - I'm teaching tomorrow and have to prepare since I'm going up to Providence... [20:27] You: OK. Alan, do we need to talk on the phone? Or aim to do this Weds? [20:27] You: My avatars! My little people! They run around everywhere, underfoot. I will play a song, a little aire, a jig or rondelay! [20:27] You: audiophiles app avatar avatar arounds bio avatar avatar blogs awk biomes tion tr [20:27] You: My avatars! My little people! They run around everywhere, underfoot. I will play a song, a little aire, a jig or rondelay! [20:27] You: SORRY!! [20:27] Sidecar Potluck: Thanks for this ~ Sandy and Alan ~ very nice work [20:27] You: audiophiles avatar avatar avatars exe everglades [20:27] You: empathetic everglades encapsulations episteme extasis entropic extasis extensivity everglades fantasm externality extensivity [20:28] You: yes, ok. By nick and jeremy. THANKS! [20:28] Alan Dojoji: again, THANK YOU! [20:29] sandy Taifun is Offline ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 06:20:28 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barry Schwabsky Subject: Re: "How the West Was Won": A Moral Witness to the 'Intricate Machine' - The New York Review of Books MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Even if you accept the = This sentence sums up the Israeili hypocrisy:=0A=0A"Even if you accept the = Palestinian reading of what happened at Camp David and assume that the Isra= eli proposals were inadequate, still it is impossible to accept the violenc= e they have adopted as their weapon while still faced with an Israeli partn= er who wanted to reach a solution."=0A=0AWhen has this "partner" ever put i= n an appearance on the political stage?=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0A= From: David Chirot =0ATo: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.= EDU=0ASent: Monday, 3 December, 2007 3:50:56 PM=0ASubject: "How the West Wa= s Won": A Moral Witness to the 'Intricate Machine' - The New York Review of= Books=0A=0Ahttp://www.nybooks.com/articles/20856 ---=0A=0AA very powerful = article.=0AThe parallels with movie and historical versions of the "How the= =0A(American) West Was Won"--=0Aare chilling, and too often overlooked. Th= e passage regarding the=0Amistreatment and poisoning of animals and people,= but, beyond that,=0Aeven the land itself--=0Aall too familiar from America= n history.=0ATo destroy even the earth in order to posses it.=0A("We destro= yed the village in order to liberate it," as was said in Vietnam.=0A Was i= t now part of "God's Country"--or simply "Marlboro Country,"=0Awith some sm= oldering butts among the "smoking ruins" and carcasses in=0Athe Agent Oran= ge contaminated, cancerous, dying landscape?)=0AWilliam Carlos Williams wr= ote that "a poem is a machine made of words."=0AThat poetry can also be an = "Intricate Machine" --=0Aa question at the heart of words--=0Ais it that l= anguage, like truth, is among the first victims of war?=0AOr--the other way= round--that war is among the first "victims" as it=0Awere of language?=0AT= he "belief in words" and "the power of language" as an "Intricate=0AMachine= , "as generators of "Weapons of Mass Destruction": the forged=0A"Italian L= etter" and made-up "intelligence" of "Curveball," when cited=0Aby Colin Pow= ell, Bush and Blair as "hard evidence" in "major=0Aaddresses" to the Nation= and United Nations-- paving the "Road to=0ABaghdad" and "the Roadmap to Pe= ace."=0AWhen one considers such terms as "the material word" and "the=0Athi= ngness of virtual digital language" in the military parlance of=0A"avant-ga= rde" or "post avant"--=0Awhat exactly is meant by "material?"=0AFor example= : "material" in military terms--"materiel," equipments and=0Asupplies for a= mission, or, in commercial terms, the shipment of=0Ahardware and supplies = via transport.=0A=0A"As usual, the only symptoms we had were in the languag= e"--Pier Paulo Pasolini ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 01:40:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: **Last Call: Advertise in The Portable Boog Reader 2** Comments: To: "UB Poetics discussion group "@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Please forward ----------------------- =20 Advertise in =20 Boog City 47: The Portable Boog Reader 2, An Anthology of New York City Poetry Edited by=20 Laura Elrick, Brenda Iijima, Mark Lamoureux, Christina Strong, Rodrigo Toscano, and me, David Kirschenbaum =20 We=B9re going to be distributing 2,500 copies of a 24-page issue of our tabloid-size paper Boog City--the equivalent in size of a 96-page, 5.375=B2 x 8=B2 anthology--throughout Manhattan's East Village, and Williamsburg and Greenpoint, Brooklyn. **Deadline** =20 --Thurs. Dec. 20-Ad copy to editor --Sat. Dec. 29-Issue to be distributed =20 Email to reserve ad space ASAP =20 Issue Will Feature Work From: Bruce Andrews Ellen Baxt Jim Behrle Jen Benka Charles Bernstein Anselm Berrigan Charles Borkhuis Ana Bozicevic-Bowling Lee Ann Brown Allison Cobb Julia Cohen Todd Colby Brenda Coultas Alan Davies M=F3nica de la Torre LaTasha N. Nevada Diggs Thom Donovan Joe Elliot Robert Fitterman Corrine Fitzpatrick G.L. Ford Greg Fuchs Joanna Fuhrman Drew Gardner Garth Graeper David Micah Greenberg E. Tracy Grinnell Christine Hamm Robert Hershon Mitch Highfill Bob Holman Paolo Javier Paul Foster Johnson Eliot Katz Erica Kaufman Amy King Bill Kushner Rachel Levitsky Andrew Levy Brendan Lorber Kimberly Lyons Dan Machlin Jill Magi Gillian McCain Sharon Mesmer Carol Mirakove Anna Moschovakis Murat Nemet-Nejat Tim Peterson Simon Pettet Wanda Phipps Nick Piombino Kristin Prevallet Arlo Quint Evelyn Reilly Kim Rosenfield Lauren Russell Kyle Schlesinger Nathaniel Siegel Joanna Sondheim Chris Stackhouse Stacy Szymaszek Edwin Torres Anne Waldman Shanxing Wang Lewis Warsh Karen Weiser Angela Veronica Wong Matvei Yankelevich Lila Zemborain And more =20 ----- =20 Take advantage of our indie discount ad rate. We are once again offering a 50% discount on our 1/8-page ads, cutting them from $60 to $30. (The discount rate also applies to larger ads. Please inquire for a rate card.) =20 Advertise your small press's newest publications, your own titles or upcoming readings, or maybe salute an author you feel people should be reading, with a few suggested books to buy. And musical acts, advertise you= r new albums, indie labels your new releases. =20 (We're also cool with donations, real cool.) =20 Email editor@boogcity.com or call 212-842-BOOG(2664) for more information. =20 thanks, David =20 --=20 David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 22:48:56 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: kari edwards - Ashes unto ocean - blog MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit A parting ceremony - viz & text: http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 06:46:05 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: Around the World in 80 Days MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Music and poetry from around the world. The first three days are up now: Day one : Afghanistan : DJ Besho, Naghma, Arash Howeida, etc. Day two : Albania : Bloody Foreigners, Kosovo rap, Dava Gjergji, etc. Day three : Algeria : Karima, Lotfi's "America," early Cheb Mami, etc. Visit: http://garysullivan.blogspot.com Suggestions welcome. _________________________________________________________________ Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.Download today it's FREE= ! http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_Wave2_sharelife_1120= 07= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 09:00:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kevin thurston Subject: BAL(L)TIMORE!!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline michael ball lauren bender justin sirois on baltimore's npr affiliate (they's too shy to mention it) http://stream.publicbroadcasting.net/production/mp3/national/local-national-653777.mp3 -- beat'n animals http://fuckinglies.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 10:47:54 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Kelleher Subject: Literary Buffalo E-Newsletter 12.04.07-12.09.07 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 LITERARY BUFFALO 12.04.07-12.09.07 BABEL THERE ARE STILL A LIMITED NUMBER OF TICKETS AVAILABLE FOR ARIEL DORFMAN -- = GET THEM WHILE YOU CAN=21 JUST BUFFALO PRESENTS Ariel Dorfman, author of Death and the Maiden Talk and Conversation Friday, December 7, 8 p.m. Asbury Hall at Babeville Admission =2425 WE ARE NOW OFFERING A 3-EVENT SUBSCRIPTION FOR =2460. Tickets for individual Babel events are also on sale. Call 832-5400 or visi= t http://www.justbuffalo.org/babel. Get your tickets while you can=21 December 7 Ariel Dorfman, Chile, Author of Death and the Maiden =2425 March 13 Derek Walcott, St. Lucia, Winner of the 1992 Nobel Prize =2425 April 24 Kiran Desai, India, Winner of the 2006 Man Booker Prize =2425 PLUS: Buffalo United Artists Presents: Death and the Maiden: A Staged Reading of the play by Ariel Dorfman Starring: Josephine Hogan, Drew Kahn and Peter Palmisano Saturday, December 8, 7:30 p.m. Alleyway Theater, One Curtain Up=21 Alley. Tickets =2425. Call 886.9239 to reserve. _All proceeds benefit Just Buffalo= =2E ___________________________________________________________________________ EVENTS Unless otherwise listed, all events are free and open to the public. 12.05.07 Poetics Plus at UB Paul Hoover Poetry Reading Wednesday, December 5, 7:30 p.m. Hallwalls Cinema, 341 Tupper =40 Delaware & Center For Inquiry/Just Buffalo Literary Caf=E9 Marj Norris and Amol Salunkhe Poetry Reading (8 open slots) Wednesday, December 5, 7:30 p.m. Center For Inquiry, 1310 Sweet Home Rd., Amherst 12.06.07 The Write Thing at Medaille College Maxine Chernoff Poetry Reading Thursday, December 6, 7 p.m. The Library at Huber Hall, Medaille College,18 Agassiz Circle 12.07.07 Just Buffalo/Gusto at the Gallery Nickel City Poetry Slam Feature: J.W. Baz, from Chicago Friday, December 7, 7 p.m. Clifton Hall, Albright-Knox Art Gallery 12.09.07 Spoken Word Sundays Dan Sicoli and Tim Bienkowski Sunday, December 9, 8 p.m. Allen Street Hardware, 245 Allen St. Slots for open readers available ___________________________________________________________________________ JUST BUFFALO MEMBERS ONLY WRITER CRITIQUE GROUP Members of Just Buffalo are welcome to attend a free, bi-monthly writer cri= tique group in CEPA's Flux Gallery on the first floor of the historic Marke= t Arcade Building across the street from Shea's. Group meets 1st and 3rd We= dnesday at 7 p.m. Call Just Buffalo for details. ___________________________________________________________________________ WESTERN NEW YORK ROMANCE WRITERS group meets the third Wednesday of every m= onth at St. Joseph Hospital community room at 11a.m. Address: 2605 Harlem R= oad, Cheektowaga, NY 14225. For details go to www.wnyrw.org. ___________________________________________________________________________ JOIN JUST BUFFALO ONLINE=21=21=21 If you would like to join Just Buffalo, or simply make a massive personal d= onation, you can do so online using your credit card. We have recently add= ed the ability to join online by paying with a credit card through PayPal. = Simply click on the membership level at which you would like to join, log = in (or create a PayPal account using your Visa/Amex/Mastercard/Discover), a= nd voil=E1, you will find yourself in literary heaven. For more info, or t= o join now, go to our website: http://www.justbuffalo.org/membership/index.shtml ___________________________________________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE If you would like to unsubscribe from this list, just say so and you will b= e immediately removed. _______________________________ Michael Kelleher Artistic Director Just Buffalo Literary Center Market Arcade 617 Main St., Ste. 202A Buffalo, NY 14203 716.832.5400 716.270.0184 (fax) www.justbuffalo.org mjk=40justbuffalo.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 10:06:51 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charlie Rossiter Subject: [Fwd: Re: Bob Fosse/Lenny Bruce/Bob Dylan]/Guthrie/Plath MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I recall enjoying Bound for Glory (woody guthrie) of course there's The Bell Jar --Plath charlie ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- Subject: Re: Bob Fosse/Lenny Bruce/Bob Dylan From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Date: Sun, December 2, 2007 11:17 pm To: -------------------------------------------------------------------------- fosse was great the film about him all that jazz with roy scheider another great american biopic let's name lots of bio pics see what we come up with what are some greats and favorites and ones about poets writers and ah lust(s) for life On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 09:34:02 -0800 steve russell writes: > How many people on the list are old enough to remember Bob Fosse? & > how many among those answering yes are old enough to remember > "Lenny?" I attended a blue collar Catholic high school. I had > terrible acne. & I was in to Lenny Bruce, not exactly the ticket to > success in the repressive Orlando, Florida that I grew up in. I > haven't seen the Dylan movie. I trust the comments here far more > than I do the crits. > > It's too bad Fosse isn't around to try his had at a Dylan docu/dram. > Lenny was pretty Gddamn decent. I'll never forget Hoffman doing > Bruce, intoning that great "To is a preposition, come is a verb" > line. > > > --------------------------------- > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 12:59:35 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Bob Fosse/Lenny Bruce/Bob Dylan]/Guthrie/Plath In-Reply-To: <1597.76.197.246.8.1196784411.squirrel@www.poetrypoetry.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the bell jar was so awful! i remember walking out; i went with Walter Lew, who'd won free tickets in some local contest (send in your poems...) the trailer beforehand was for Halloween, which was a good foretaste. wow. what a terrible movie. but i'm glad to have been reminded of the moment; it's a vivid memory from my early 20s of companionship in the Word, even if i spent most of the evening in the lobby, waiting for walter to watch his fill. Charlie Rossiter wrote: > I recall enjoying Bound for Glory (woody guthrie) > of course there's The Bell Jar --Plath > charlie > > > ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- > Subject: Re: Bob Fosse/Lenny Bruce/Bob Dylan > From: "steve d. dalachinsky" > Date: Sun, December 2, 2007 11:17 pm > To: > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > fosse was great the film about him all that jazz with roy scheider > another great american biopic > let's name lots of bio pics see what we come up with what are some > greats and favorites > and ones about poets writers and ah lust(s) for life > > > On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 09:34:02 -0800 steve russell > writes: > >> How many people on the list are old enough to remember Bob Fosse? & >> how many among those answering yes are old enough to remember >> "Lenny?" I attended a blue collar Catholic high school. I had >> terrible acne. & I was in to Lenny Bruce, not exactly the ticket to >> success in the repressive Orlando, Florida that I grew up in. I >> haven't seen the Dylan movie. I trust the comments here far more >> than I do the crits. >> >> It's too bad Fosse isn't around to try his had at a Dylan docu/dram. >> Lenny was pretty Gddamn decent. I'll never forget Hoffman doing >> Bruce, intoning that great "To is a preposition, come is a verb" >> line. >> >> >> --------------------------------- >> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. >> >> >> ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 14:13:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetry Project Subject: Wednesday December 5 at The Poetry Project In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Hello Everyone, Our program has changed. We regret to report that Norma Cole cannot make it to the reading on Wednesday. We are ecstatic to report that Macgregor Card will read on Wednesday along with Simon Pettet! The Poetry Project Wednesday, December 5, 8 PM Simon Pettet & Macgregor Card Simon Pettet=B9s most-recently published book of poems is More Winnowed Fragments (Talisman, 2006). His Selected Poems is also still in print and available from the same publisher. He is the author of two classic collaborations with photographer-filmmaker, Rudy Burckhardt, Conversations About Everything and Talking Pictures, and he edited for Black Sparrow the Art Writings of the poet, James Schuyler. "Like Beethoven's Bagatelles", John Ashbery has written, "Simon Pettet's short poems have a great deal to say, and their seeming modest dimensions help rather than hinder his saying it". Macgregor Card is a poet living in Brooklyn. Work has appeared in Puppyflowers, The Recluse, KGB Bar Lit, Columbia Journal, Best American Poetry 2007, Lungful!, Aufgabe and elsewhere. He was recently buried alive in Prospect Park with three other poets for Karl Krauss' "Earth on Stone on Earth Is Naturally So." He sporadically edits The Germ (archive at germspot.blogspot.com) and Firmilian: A Spasmodic Knowledge Base (firmilian.blogspot.com). With Olivier Brossard he is editing an anthology of New York School poetries. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 14:32:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bobbie Lurie Subject: Response to Alison and others (my failure to preface) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Alison-- I apologize that I did not preface that post/ sent too quickly...it was written on someone's blog/ i did not even get name or byline--it was the idea of it--what i have been hearing from 2 sides--more like a question--I actually was trying to contact woman in Saudi Arabia who sought my help earlier. She wrote me back in Sept. that they were facing problems with internet/ msgs. not allowed through. In my recent email to her I asked her to simply please send me instructions I might forward to others if she still sought help via U.S. petitions etc./ to ask re: ways she was seeking support with West in general (for she certainly was)(i am obviously no authority--David Chirot knows this for sure)/ group of women in Saudi Arabia in Sept. quite upset with fact they were taking away women's right to drive--she was seeking U.S. support in form of petitions (only that)so I wrote to her again since I have no way of knowing what is really going on--I have waited 2 wks to hear from her (she usually answered quite promptly) --not hearing from her was alarming (maybe it shouldn't be). If I do not answer posts it's due to fact I must take computer in. (in all honesty: am taking it in today--it crashed almost 6 mos. ago) bobbi Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 22:57:17 +1100 From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: Feminism vs. Muslim Women? Bobby Have you spoken to any Iraqis about this? You probably should. Saddam was a tyrant, no question: a friend of mine was shot by his troops while demonstrating against his regime and had to get his family out of there. Yet I know no Iraqis who support the US occupation. You have to remember that the US invaded the most secular country in the Middle East. Islamism has only been an issue since the US invasion. Just as a note: I have been very careful about making generalisations about Islam ever since, as a young and ignorantly well-meaning woman, I had my head bitten off by a very feminist Islamic woman who told me in no uncertain terms that Muslim women were by no means the downtrodden persecuted sex I had assumed, and that traditional Muslim women had the right to divorce their husbands and they kept their own property after marriage and took it with them when they left. Honour killings and genital mutilations are not Islamic, but very culturally specific (honour killings also happen in Orthodox Christian Greece). Etc. Her best argument, frankly, was her own self: she was an amazing, forthright woman (as are many Islamic women). Islam is as various as Christianity and in many ways not so different: after all, not so long ago in Christian societies, all property in a marriage was owned by the husband. (When when my mother divorced my father, the bank manager insisted on my father's signature when she wanted to buy some property.Only she hit the roof and he stopped insisting. A few years earlier, she would have had fewer rights than a Muslim woman: remember how Anna Wickham was sent to an asylum by her husband because she insisted on writing poetry). The aggression of the west against the Arab world has sadly made it more conservative, rather than less, and western feminists have to be careful that, for all their well-meaning intentions, they don't compound what is a complex situation. What I'm saying is, things are complex, and if you're concerned about these things, perhaps it might be best to speak to Muslim women and see what they have to say themselves. All best Alison -- Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aolcmp00050000000003 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 20:27:34 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nate Pritts Subject: H_NGM_N #7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://www.h-ngm-n.com Dear Yes Dear: Please allow me to say hello to you with my voice! I am EDITOR NATE PRITTS= writing with a special proposition only for someone with your name because= of how it was uncovered in a secret document. About money! Yes, please r= ead on. I would like to transfer to you, at no charge and for all of your = own use, the new issue of H_NGM_N. Please respond to me by clicking this l= ink here in the next word =96 http://www.h-ngm-n.com - & you will be transp= orted immediately to the secret trove of literature that was left to you by= your dearly beloved dead relative you do not know. What=92s more is that there is even more! If you were to considering sendi= ng me the sum of $6 US, I would surely then find myself putting in the mail= to you a copy of the last will and testament of your dearly beloved dead r= elative you do not know. The title of this tome is WHO COULD FORGET THE SE= NSATIONAL FIRST EVENING OF THE NIGHT by Julia Cohen and she is even not dea= d as I write this! And it is not even a will but really a chapbook of real= ly terrific & ultimately edifying poems! You could do worse than this and I=92m not only kidding about that but also= I am telling a quiet kind of truth that makes you want to spend money on t= hings. Things like this! Even if they are free. http://www.h-ngm-n.com Please act now before the government of England claims all of this money & = prize. Please exercise your right and use the finger on your hand to manip= ulate the computer clicking device and bring yourself to the new issue of H= _NGM_N that you need. Yours most sincerely, Nate Pritts, Editor in Chief. http://www.h-ngm-n.com =20 ___________Nate Prittshttp://www.h-ngm-n.com/nate-pritts/ _________________________________________________________________ You keep typing, we keep giving. Download Messenger and join the i=92m Init= iative now. http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=3DTAGLM= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 13:07:50 -0800 Reply-To: matvei yankelevich Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: matvei yankelevich Subject: BOOK PARTY Comments: To: yan@pobox.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii You are invited to a real book party... in celebration of 5 new books by 5 new york authors published by 5 new york presses: FACE OUT BOOK PARTY Thursday, December 6, from 7:30 to 10:30 at the Good World Bar & Grill, 3 Orchard St., between Canal & Division, NYC, 212-925-9975 LILA ZEMBORAIN / mauve-sea orchids / BELLADONNA BOOKS IHSAN BRACY / paths of sanctuary / COOL GROVE PRESS PRAGEETA SHARMA / infamous landscapes / FENCE BOOKS BRENDA IIJIMA / animate, inanimate aims / LITMUS PRESS DAN MACHLIN / dear body: / UGLY DUCKLING PRESSE with music by THE VINTAGE DJ FACE OUT is a program of the Jerome Foundation and the Council of Literary Magazines and Presses *** PLEASE NOTE: FULL PRESSE SUBSCRIPTIONS FOR 2007-2008 ARE NOW ON SALE *** see WWW.UGLYDUCKLINGPRESSE.ORG for more info ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 17:31:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Dr. Barry S. Alpert" Subject: Re: Bio Pic Nominees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Some actually good bio pics, actually about their subjects" - AL Nielsen =20 =20 "Jack Smith and the Destruction of Atlantis", by Mary Jordan. =20 Despite the ferociously-mixed reception encountered in advance on the exper= imental film listserv FRAMEWORKS, Mary Jordan's 5.5 year project proved rat= her revelatory when I finally caught it in an in-person screening at the Hi= rshhorn Museum in Washington DC. During the Q & A, the engaging Ms Jordan = revealed that the DC premiere of Jack Smith's most notorious film ("Flaming= Creatures") was a screening for Senator Strom Thurmond. Apparently the no= torious womanizer (and the other senators who may have joined him) first wa= tched the whole film straight-thru, engaged enough that they didn't get bog= ged down in stopping to index each image from which the American public had= to be protected. =20 =20 Barry Alpert=20 _________________________________________________________________ Put your friends on the big screen with Windows Vista=AE + Windows Live=99. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/shop/specialoffers.mspx?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_C= PC_MediaCtr_bigscreen_102007= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 18:09:01 -0500 Reply-To: az421@freenet.carleton.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: new from above/ground press: Christine Stewart Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT The Trees of Periphery by Christine Stewart ALBERTA SERIES #3 30 pages, 8 1/2 x 11 Christine A. Stewart is from Vancouver and currently writes and teaches experimental poetry and poetics in the English and Film Department at the University of Alberta. She is researching the work of experimental women poets in Western and Eastern Canada, and exploring alternative forms of scholarly analysis. She is author of the chapbooks Pessoas July: or the months of astonishments (Vancouver BC: Nomados Press, 2006), From Taxonomy (Sheffield, England: West House Press, 2003), Daddy Clean Head (Vancouver BC: Lumpe Presse, 2000), A Travel Narrative (Hamilton ON: Berkeley Horse, 1994) and The Barschiet Horse [with Lisa Robertson and Catriona Strang] (Hamilton ON: Berkeley Horse, 1993). See her "12 or 20 questions" interview at http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/2007/09/12-or-20-questions-with-christine.html Mail all your money (payable to rob mclennan) to: rob mclennan, writer in residence Department of English and Film Studies University of Alberta 3-5 Humanities Centre Edmonton, AB T6G 2E5 $6 (+ $2 for postage; outside Canada, $6+2$ US) (while supplies last; produced in a numbered run of 200 copies) above/ground press subscribers rec' a complimentary copy; 2008 subscriptions still available; for further above/ground press titles (including the first two in this series), check out the new above/ground press blog at http://www.abovegroundpress.blogspot.com/ -- poet/editor/publisher ...STANZAS mag, above/ground press & Chaudiere Books (www.chaudierebooks.com) ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...13th poetry coll'n - The Ottawa City Project .... 2007-8 writer in residence, U of Alberta * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 17:28:57 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Simon DeDeo Subject: new on rhubarb is susan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed New this week on rhubarb is susan is a review of the December issue of Poetry Magazine (now online!), with a focus on a fantastic translation of the Italian poet Milo De Angelis. Find that here: http://rhubarbissusan.blogspot.com/2007/12/milo-de-angelis-from-theme-of-farewell.html Also, in "boy meets Hegel", along with the obvious, is a link to a brief survey. I do encourage you to fill it out (literally under a minute of your time), but since it's a survey of rhubarb, and not UB Poetics, please only fill it out if you would consider yourself a "rhubarb reader." The link for that is here: http://rhubarbissusan.blogspot.com/2007/12/boy-meets-hegel.html I'll publicize the results at the end of December. Finally, there is the rhubarb-absent-Christmas-Hanukkah-Rohatsu- Ramadan-Kwanzaa-Yule-Newtonmas so you can get paid list: http://rhubarbissusan.blogspot.com/2007/11/rhubarb-absent-christmas-hanukkah.html Thanks for tuning in, Simon http://rhubarbissusan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 16:01:54 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Baraban Subject: "Louis Pasteur is born!" (Creeley on biopics) In-Reply-To: <1196712081l.946178l.0l@psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I remember reading at least one interview with Robert Creeley in which he pointedly mentioned seeing a movie in which a doctor pronounces the words "Louis Pasteur is born!" I guess this was "The Story of Louis Pasteur" made in 1936? I didn't see any such film, but they must have set up the situation by having the doctor ask the parents if they have names prepared yet--and the parents would have said something like "yes, Louis if it's a boy, and Catherine if it's a girl". Anyway, Creeley, at the same time as making a wider philosophical point, had isolated the big problem with biographical films--they have a hard time not sticking the protaganist with a tedious fixed character, set from the start. Terrific directors have done poorly in their biopics. I don't like Mike Leigh's film about Gilbert and Sullivan creating "The Mikado" as much as the other films of his I've seen. Roberto Rossellini, according to notes provided at a Museum of Modern Art screening, valued his biographical film about Italian revolutionary Geribaldi, "Viva Italia!", above anything else he ever did, but it's hard for me to appreciate it all that much--it seemed like another fairly pedestrian epic biography with a cast of thousands, like "Ghandi" (though Rossellini found a path to the creation of excellent didactic biographies about people like Pascal and Louis XIV in his final "educational film" period). Francis Ford Coppola's movie about a maverick car manufacturer, "Tucker: The Man and His Dream"--totally held my interest--Coppola made it wonderfully *festive*. Is Spike Lee's Malcolm movie also one of the unusual ones?--I can't offer an opinion, I've only seen sections of it on TV. Mostly I've experienced biopics as utilitarian constructs from which I could extract a little entertainment and some worthwhile information. From biopics I've learned some things about Ghandi, salsero Hector Lavoe, & sex researcher Dr. Kinsey. I'd like to see the flicks Aldon lists; I've missed them. Oh, and "Heart Like a Wheel", about drag racer Shirley Muldowney, for me also transcended the usual deal--or do I (a non driver) have some special thing for movies about cars? --- ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > examples -- > > Great bio pics that have little to do with their > subjects: > > Lady Sings the Blues > The Barretts of Wimpole Street > > This year's worst bio pic: > > Talk to Me > > > Some actually good bio pics, actually about their > subjects: > > Coal Miner's Daughter > A Mighty Heart (despite the fact that the title > sounds like one of Christopher > Guest's parodies) > Hoffa > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > We are enslaved by > what makes us free -- intolerable > paradox at the heart of speech. > --Robert Kelly > > Sailing the blogosphere at: > http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > > Aldon L. Nielsen > Kelly Professor of American Literature > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 18:43:54 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Abigail Child Subject: INVITATION TO A READING Comments: To: Gardner Drew Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed YOU ARE INVITED to a POETRY READING at ST MARK's POETRY PROJECT DEC 12th, 2008 8:oo pm St. Mark's Church, 10th Street and Second Ave, NYC LEE ANN BROWN and ABIGAIL CHILD I am reading new work for New York so I especially hope you can come out for the evening. Best, Abigail from CounterClock: Melding TV on console between slow animal heat & artificial sweeteners. His master's voice broadcast Maverick: as in candy hummels promote. Murphy: Enough mineral pitch to mall all walls Sammy: green bladed chrome self-sofa Yunior: No no mano-a-mano but clinically possible. Revolt: What needle valve What Self promote a gig of oaf at holiday, gaps in soma promo volt tag Nations rosy macro ova or butt it up in the loco motive a sit-up pillow aces (jacks and queens) a straight Abigail Child 303 East 8th Street #6F New York, NY 10009 212-673-1608 http://www.abigailchild.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 17:58:41 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Free One Page Ads In-Reply-To: <4752069B.2020705@bway.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello: Here are the specs for the next free ad space on MiPOesias Magazine Print edition scheduled to launch February 2008 - deadline to send ads in is January 15, 2008. 1 high resolution 600 min dpi and 2400 pixels or higher (color, black and white or sepia) of yourself, looking away, perhaps a silhouette - Full length, 3/4 view are best. 1 Logo and/or book cover, also high resolution although does not have to be as high as the photo. Web site URL or address where the book, journal magazine may be purchased or read online. A one to two sentence answering the question - Where were you June 15th, 1962. The answer should have your name underneath, with your title, author, publisher, editor, artist (what have you). The date is not noted in history so googling is not going to help you with an answer. I know many of you may not have been around then, you are a poet, so answer it poetically. The free ads selected will take one full page in the printed version of MiPOesias Magazine. For a current issue, stop by www.mipoesias.com Ads are at my discretion. Send all ads to my email at didimenendez@hotmail.com Please feel free to post this message on your blogs and such. Thank you, Didi Menendez Publisher, MiPOesias Magazine OCHO, ETC. www.mipoesias.com --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 02:20:21 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Invalid RFC822 field - "But would Pasolini's Gospel Accordin=". Rest of header flushed. From: Barry Schwabsky Subject: Re: "Louis Pasteur is born!" (Creeley on biopics) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Lee on Malcolm was a disappointment.=0ABut would Pasolini's Gospel Accordin= g to Matthew count as a biopic on Jesus? A true masterpiece.=0A=0A----- Ori= ginal Message ----=0AFrom: Stephen Baraban =0ATo= : POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=0ASent: Wednesday, 5 December, 2007 12:01:54= AM=0ASubject: "Louis Pasteur is born!" (Creeley on biopics)=0A=0AI remembe= r reading at least one interview with Robert=0ACreeley in which he pointedl= y mentioned seeing a movie=0Ain which a doctor pronounces the words "Louis = Pasteur=0Ais born!" =0A=0AI guess this was "The Story of Louis Pasteur" ma= de in=0A1936? I didn't see any such film, but they must have=0Aset up the s= ituation by having the doctor ask the=0Aparents if they have names prepared= yet--and the=0Aparents would have said something like "yes, Louis if=0Ait'= s a boy, and Catherine if it's a girl".=0A=0AAnyway, Creeley, at the same t= ime as making a wider=0Aphilosophical point, had isolated the big problem w= ith=0Abiographical films--they have a hard time not sticking=0Athe protagan= ist with a tedious fixed character, set=0Afrom the start. =0A=0ATerrif= ic directors have done poorly in their biopics. =0AI don't like Mike Leigh'= s film about Gilbert and=0ASullivan creating "The Mikado" as much as the ot= her=0Afilms of his I've seen. Roberto Rossellini, according=0Ato notes prov= ided at a Museum of Modern Art screening,=0Avalued his biographical film ab= out Italian=0Arevolutionary Geribaldi, "Viva Italia!", above=0Aanything els= e he ever did, but it's hard for me to=0Aappreciate it all that much--it se= emed like another=0Afairly pedestrian epic biography with a cast of=0Athous= ands, like "Ghandi" (though Rossellini found a=0Apath to the creation of ex= cellent didactic biographies=0Aabout people like Pascal and Louis XIV in hi= s final=0A"educational film" period). =0A=0AFrancis Ford Coppola's movie ab= out a maverick car=0Amanufacturer, "Tucker: The Man and His Dream"--totally= =0Aheld my interest--Coppola made it wonderfully =0A*festive*.=0A=0AIs Spik= e Lee's Malcolm movie also one of the unusual=0Aones?--I can't offer an opi= nion, I've only seen=0Asections of it on TV.=0A=0AMostly I've experienced b= iopics as utilitarian=0Aconstructs from which I could extract a little=0Aen= tertainment and some worthwhile information. From=0Abiopics I've learned s= ome things about Ghandi, salsero=0AHector Lavoe, & sex researcher Dr. Kinse= y. =0A=0AI'd like to see the flicks Aldon lists; I've missed=0Athem. =0A= =0AOh, and "Heart Like a Wheel", about drag racer Shirley=0AMuldowney, for = me also transcended the usual deal--or=0Ado I (a non driver) have some spec= ial thing for movies=0Aabout cars? =0A=0A--- ALDON L NIELSEN wrote:=0A=0A> examples -- =0A> =0A> Great bio pics that have little to = do with their=0A> subjects:=0A> =0A> Lady Sings the Blues=0A> The Barretts= of Wimpole Street=0A> =0A> This year's worst bio pic:=0A> =0A> Talk to M= e=0A> =0A> =0A> Some actually good bio pics, actually about their=0A> sub= jects:=0A> =0A> Coal Miner's Daughter=0A> A Mighty Heart (despite the fact= that the title=0A> sounds like one of Christopher=0A> Guest's parodies)=0A= > Hoffa=0A> =0A>=0A<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>= >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>=0A> =0A> We are enslaved by=0A> what makes us free -- i= ntolerable=0A> paradox at the heart of speech.=0A> --Robert Kelly=0A> =0A> = Sailing the blogosphere at:=0A> http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/=0A> =0A> A= ldon L. Nielsen=0A> Kelly Professor of American Literature=0A> The Pennsylv= ania State University=0A> 116 Burrowes=0A> University Park, PA 16802-6200= =0A> =0A> (814) 865-0091=0A> =0A=0A=0A=0A ____________________________= ________________________________________________________=0AGet easy, one-cl= ick access to your favorites. =0AMake Yahoo! your homepage.=0Ahttp://www.ya= hoo.com/r/hs ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 23:12:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Re: "Louis Pasteur is born!" (Creeley on biopics) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit And there's Francois Girard's "32 Short Films About Glenn Gould", which seems to come as close as anything to a story of us, which is the authentic aim of a biopic, no? Gerald Schwartz >I remember reading at least one interview with Robert > Creeley in which he pointedly mentioned seeing a movie > in which a doctor pronounces the words "Louis Pasteur > is born!" > > I guess this was "The Story of Louis Pasteur" made in > 1936? I didn't see any such film, but they must have > set up the situation by having the doctor ask the > parents if they have names prepared yet--and the > parents would have said something like "yes, Louis if > it's a boy, and Catherine if it's a girl". > > Anyway, Creeley, at the same time as making a wider > philosophical point, had isolated the big problem with > biographical films--they have a hard time not sticking > the protaganist with a tedious fixed character, set > from the start. > > Terrific directors have done poorly in their biopics. > I don't like Mike Leigh's film about Gilbert and > Sullivan creating "The Mikado" as much as the other > films of his I've seen. Roberto Rossellini, according > to notes provided at a Museum of Modern Art screening, > valued his biographical film about Italian > revolutionary Geribaldi, "Viva Italia!", above > anything else he ever did, but it's hard for me to > appreciate it all that much--it seemed like another > fairly pedestrian epic biography with a cast of > thousands, like "Ghandi" (though Rossellini found a > path to the creation of excellent didactic biographies > about people like Pascal and Louis XIV in his final > "educational film" period). > > Francis Ford Coppola's movie about a maverick car > manufacturer, "Tucker: The Man and His Dream"--totally > held my interest--Coppola made it wonderfully > *festive*. > > Is Spike Lee's Malcolm movie also one of the unusual > ones?--I can't offer an opinion, I've only seen > sections of it on TV. > > Mostly I've experienced biopics as utilitarian > constructs from which I could extract a little > entertainment and some worthwhile information. From > biopics I've learned some things about Ghandi, salsero > Hector Lavoe, & sex researcher Dr. Kinsey. > > I'd like to see the flicks Aldon lists; I've missed > them. > > Oh, and "Heart Like a Wheel", about drag racer Shirley > Muldowney, for me also transcended the usual deal--or > do I (a non driver) have some special thing for movies > about cars? > > --- ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > >> examples -- >> >> Great bio pics that have little to do with their >> subjects: >> >> Lady Sings the Blues >> The Barretts of Wimpole Street >> >> This year's worst bio pic: >> >> Talk to Me >> >> >> Some actually good bio pics, actually about their >> subjects: >> >> Coal Miner's Daughter >> A Mighty Heart (despite the fact that the title >> sounds like one of Christopher >> Guest's parodies) >> Hoffa >> >> > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> We are enslaved by >> what makes us free -- intolerable >> paradox at the heart of speech. >> --Robert Kelly >> >> Sailing the blogosphere at: >> http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ >> >> Aldon L. Nielsen >> Kelly Professor of American Literature >> The Pennsylvania State University >> 116 Burrowes >> University Park, PA 16802-6200 >> >> (814) 865-0091 >> > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. > Make Yahoo! your homepage. > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 23:56:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: "Louis Pasteur is born again!" Comments: To: Stephen Baraban In-Reply-To: 540724.85613.qm@web63412.mail.re1.yahoo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 in the running for worst bio pic of all time: Che Close runnerup: Pinero (though this one has the advantage of a scene near the end with real poets that you can slice away from the rest of the film and watch by itself) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 00:21:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: "Louis Pasteur is born!" (Creeley on biopics) In-Reply-To: <540724.85613.qm@web63412.mail.re1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I love Mike Leigh's "Topsy Turvy" about Gilbert and Sullivan, not because of what it reveals about them; but because of the intimations of sickness, sterility and disease which underlie the glitter of Victorian high life; also because of the exquisite and witty performances of scenes from The Mikado and other G. & S. plays. It is that contrast which is stunning and to me very moving. Another movie which had a last impact on me -though I don't know how good a movie it is- is V. Minelli's Lust for Life. I never forget Van Gogh (Kirk Douglas) spewing some nonsense about why Gauguin (Anthony Quinn) does not apply more color to his paintings (Van Gogh's signature "feeling" color palette) and Gauguin replying, "I like it flat." I love that response; a whole aesthetic is buried in it. An absolutely horrible bio picture (of an imaginary "great artist") is Scorcese's contribution to a trilogy whose name escapes me. (The other two were, one, an odd and very interesting Coppola contribution, a fairy tale like episode with kids taking placein Manhattan, two, an equally awful contribution by Woody Allen, I think, having to do with his mother. In Scorcese's piece, with operatic, a la Scorcese brush strokes, the great artist paints while giving his assistant female admirer a hard time, saying art is all sweat and tears. I think a very interesting movie about the processes of art (in this case, painting) is La Petite Noisette (the long version). In that movie the audience hears in real time (it's a very long movie) the scratches the painter's specific ink-pen makes on the canvas. There is something violent, predatory in the sounds.The movie shows how the painter c leans and changes his pen, etc. One enters the creative process in terms of the passage of time Another wonderful movie is Kiss of the Spider Woman, John Hurt (a gay prisoner, in jail for being gay) and Raoul Julia (a mach political prisoner) are put in the same cell. Hurt tells his fantasies about a love affair (which Julia is reluctant to hear) in terms of a Nazi soap opera (a partisan woman falls in love with a blonde, nazi officer, who himself has his face slightly painted). The kitchy style of these fantasy episodes are contrasted with the realism of the jail cell. Gradually, Julia is drawn to Hurt's tale and a love affair develops between the two. It is, to me, a struggle between between the power of "reality" and the healing power of art. TO BE CONTINUED Ciao, Murat On Dec 4, 2007 7:01 PM, Stephen Baraban wrote: > I remember reading at least one interview with Robert > Creeley in which he pointedly mentioned seeing a movie > in which a doctor pronounces the words "Louis Pasteur > is born!" > > I guess this was "The Story of Louis Pasteur" made in > 1936? I didn't see any such film, but they must have > set up the situation by having the doctor ask the > parents if they have names prepared yet--and the > parents would have said something like "yes, Louis if > it's a boy, and Catherine if it's a girl". > > Anyway, Creeley, at the same time as making a wider > philosophical point, had isolated the big problem with > biographical films--they have a hard time not sticking > the protaganist with a tedious fixed character, set > from the start. > > Terrific directors have done poorly in their biopics. > I don't like Mike Leigh's film about Gilbert and > Sullivan creating "The Mikado" as much as the other > films of his I've seen. Roberto Rossellini, according > to notes provided at a Museum of Modern Art screening, > valued his biographical film about Italian > revolutionary Geribaldi, "Viva Italia!", above > anything else he ever did, but it's hard for me to > appreciate it all that much--it seemed like another > fairly pedestrian epic biography with a cast of > thousands, like "Ghandi" (though Rossellini found a > path to the creation of excellent didactic biographies > about people like Pascal and Louis XIV in his final > "educational film" period). > > Francis Ford Coppola's movie about a maverick car > manufacturer, "Tucker: The Man and His Dream"--totally > held my interest--Coppola made it wonderfully > *festive*. > > Is Spike Lee's Malcolm movie also one of the unusual > ones?--I can't offer an opinion, I've only seen > sections of it on TV. > > Mostly I've experienced biopics as utilitarian > constructs from which I could extract a little > entertainment and some worthwhile information. From > biopics I've learned some things about Ghandi, salsero > Hector Lavoe, & sex researcher Dr. Kinsey. > > I'd like to see the flicks Aldon lists; I've missed > them. > > Oh, and "Heart Like a Wheel", about drag racer Shirley > Muldowney, for me also transcended the usual deal--or > do I (a non driver) have some special thing for movies > about cars? > > --- ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > > > examples -- > > > > Great bio pics that have little to do with their > > subjects: > > > > Lady Sings the Blues > > The Barretts of Wimpole Street > > > > This year's worst bio pic: > > > > Talk to Me > > > > > > Some actually good bio pics, actually about their > > subjects: > > > > Coal Miner's Daughter > > A Mighty Heart (despite the fact that the title > > sounds like one of Christopher > > Guest's parodies) > > Hoffa > > > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > We are enslaved by > > what makes us free -- intolerable > > paradox at the heart of speech. > > --Robert Kelly > > > > Sailing the blogosphere at: > > http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > > > > Aldon L. Nielsen > > Kelly Professor of American Literature > > The Pennsylvania State University > > 116 Burrowes > > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > > > (814) 865-0091 > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. > Make Yahoo! your homepage. > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 01:02:54 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Image MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Image What sort of object is my mandala-image? Certainly not symbolic; while elements represent, the mandala-image itself stands for nothing, neither power nor deity, fecundity, rebirth, emptiness. Nothing stands for empti- ness; nothing stands in for emptiness. And certainly not ikonic; nothing is there but the image within an aegis or indifferently existing. Then again, not indexical; let's say it's eaten, ingested, but there's no pointer, anything like that. Let's say it's of the true world, the image itself, and let's say it's the becoming of the subject, placed under erasure by the subject, placed under erasure by nothing, then of the gone world, then of nothing. Let's say there's neither mind nor emptiness, uncertainly not inherently existing image. Let's say the image is of the imaginary, that the true world is of the imaginary, but the imaginary has no inherent existence. Let's say the true world is under erasure, that whatever clings, clings to erasure. Let's leave it, but not leave it at that. There were eyes in the walls. There were eyes in the table. There were eyes in the telephone. There were eyes in the keyboard, eyes in the computer, eyes in the mousepad. There were eyes in the ceiling, eyes in the floor. There were eyes in the clock that said tick-tock. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 23:37:53 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jennifer Karmin Subject: Submissions: BathHouse MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit BathHouse hypermedia journal promotes interdisciplinary and hybrid arts with a special emphasis on language and innovation. We are interested in art that blurs the lines of conventional form and genre. http://www.emich.edu/studentorgs/bhouse The Fall 2007/Winter 2008 issue of BathHouse is now accepting submissions. Our readers will be looking at submitted work starting in mid-December with a scheduled release date for the third week of January. Since this is a web-based journal, please limit submissions to 3,000 words or less (unless the form dictates otherwise and translates well to web form). E-mail text submissions must be sent as Word (.doc or .rtf) attachments. Please include author and file name in the subject heading, as well as the word "submission," as our spam filter will delete everything else. Hypermedia and digital art submissions can be sent as zip files. Audio pieces must be sent as mp3s. Alternatively, if you provide a link in your email, the editors will view your work on your home website, but please indicate which piece you would like us to consider. Send your work by email to cl_bathhouse@emich.edu. All paper submissions must be accompanied by an SASE for return. If you wish to submit by mail, send to: BathHouse Eastern Michigan University Department of English 612 Pray-Harrold Ypsilanti, MI 48197 ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 02:34:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: "Louis Pasteur is born!" (Creeley on biopics) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit edward g robinson if i remember played pasteur i got a good education from biopix when i was a kid great modgliani film new piaf old breska any ken almost any ken russell bio film is great even amadeus was pretty good madame curie on ansd on as i'm writing this the cops are yelling ast someone to get the fk down on the ground right outside my window i went out to look indeed he was on the ground which brings to mind serpico french connection ah i could go on and on On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 16:01:54 -0800 Stephen Baraban writes: > I remember reading at least one interview with Robert > Creeley in which he pointedly mentioned seeing a movie > in which a doctor pronounces the words "Louis Pasteur > is born!" > > I guess this was "The Story of Louis Pasteur" made in > 1936? I didn't see any such film, but they must have > set up the situation by having the doctor ask the > parents if they have names prepared yet--and the > parents would have said something like "yes, Louis if > it's a boy, and Catherine if it's a girl". > > Anyway, Creeley, at the same time as making a wider > philosophical point, had isolated the big problem with > biographical films--they have a hard time not sticking > the protaganist with a tedious fixed character, set > from the start. > > Terrific directors have done poorly in their biopics. > I don't like Mike Leigh's film about Gilbert and > Sullivan creating "The Mikado" as much as the other > films of his I've seen. Roberto Rossellini, according > to notes provided at a Museum of Modern Art screening, > valued his biographical film about Italian > revolutionary Geribaldi, "Viva Italia!", above > anything else he ever did, but it's hard for me to > appreciate it all that much--it seemed like another > fairly pedestrian epic biography with a cast of > thousands, like "Ghandi" (though Rossellini found a > path to the creation of excellent didactic biographies > about people like Pascal and Louis XIV in his final > "educational film" period). > > Francis Ford Coppola's movie about a maverick car > manufacturer, "Tucker: The Man and His Dream"--totally > held my interest--Coppola made it wonderfully > *festive*. > > Is Spike Lee's Malcolm movie also one of the unusual > ones?--I can't offer an opinion, I've only seen > sections of it on TV. > > Mostly I've experienced biopics as utilitarian > constructs from which I could extract a little > and some worthwhile information. From > biopics I've learned some things about Ghandi, salsero > Hector Lavoe, & sex researcher Dr. Kinsey. > > I'd like to see the flicks Aldon lists; I've missed > them. > > Oh, and "Heart Like a Wheel", about drag racer Shirley > Muldowney, for me also transcended the usual deal--or > do I (a non driver) have some special thing for movies > about cars? > > --- ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > > > examples -- > > > > Great bio pics that have little to do with their > > subjects: > > > > Lady Sings the Blues > > The Barretts of Wimpole Street > > > > This year's worst bio pic: > > > > Talk to Me > > > > > > Some actually good bio pics, actually about their > > subjects: > > > > Coal Miner's Daughter > > A Mighty Heart (despite the fact that the title > > sounds like one of Christopher > > Guest's parodies) > > Hoffa > > > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > > > > We are enslaved by > > what makes us free -- intolerable > > paradox at the heart of speech. > > --Robert Kelly > > > > Sailing the blogosphere at: > > http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > > > > Aldon L. Nielsen > > Kelly Professor of American Literature > > The Pennsylvania State University > > 116 Burrowes > > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > > > (814) 865-0091 > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________________ ___________ > Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. > Make Yahoo! your homepage. > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 02:38:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: Bio Pic Nominees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit jackie curtis film too but these are more like documentaries of which there are many both good and bad but that's a different catagory On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 17:31:31 -0500 "Dr. Barry S. Alpert" writes: > "Some actually good bio pics, actually about their subjects" - AL > Nielsen > > > "Jack Smith and the Destruction of Atlantis", by Mary Jordan. > > Despite the ferociously-mixed reception encountered in advance on > the experimental film listserv FRAMEWORKS, Mary Jordan's 5.5 year > project proved rather revelatory when I finally caught it in an > in-person screening at the Hirshhorn Museum in Washington DC. > During the Q & A, the engaging Ms Jordan revealed that the DC > premiere of Jack Smith's most notorious film ("Flaming Creatures") > was a screening for Senator Strom Thurmond. Apparently the > notorious womanizer (and the other senators who may have joined him) > first watched the whole film straight-thru, engaged enough that they > didn't get bogged down in stopping to index each image from which > the American public had to be protected. > > > Barry Alpert > _________________________________________________________________ > Put your friends on the big screen with Windows Vista® + Windows > Live™. > http://www.microsoft.com/windows/shop/specialoffers.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_C PC_MediaCtr_bigscreen_102007 > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 00:27:50 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Re: "Louis Pasteur is born!" (Creeley on biopics) In-Reply-To: <540724.85613.qm@web63412.mail.re1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline there are many more knocking at the door trying to get in but these the first ones that came to mind if one included documentaries there'd be a great many many more here- bu this what comes up during a quick break in the daily/nightly madness: GREAT Biographical FILMS La Passion de Jeanne d'Arc--Carl Th. Dreyer Le Proces de jeanne d'Arc--Robert Bresson Gospel According to Saint Matthew--Pier Paulo Pasolini Un Grand amour de Beethoven--Abel Gance Napoleon--Abel Gance Andrei Rublev--Andrei Tarkovsky Aguirre der Zorn Gottes--Werner Herzog Ivan the Terrible--Sergei Eisenstein Kagemusha (The Shadow Warrior)--Akira Kurosawa Raging Bull--Martin Scorcese (Boxer Jake LaMotta) The Story of Adele H.--Francois Truffaut (Adele Hugo) Camille Claudel--Bruno Nuytten Un Condamne a mort est echappe, ou Le Vent souflle ou il veut (A Man Escaped, or The Wind Blows Where it Wants To/The Wind Bloweth where it Listeth)--Robert Bresson (Andre DeVigny) The Enigma of Kaspar Hauser--Werner Herzog Simon del Desierto (Simon of the Desert)--Luis Bunuel Czlowiek z marmuru (Man of Marble)--Andrej Wajda Not a "real" bio pic, but loosely one: Round Midnight--Bertrand Tavernier (Maestro Saxophonist Dexter Gordon is fantastic as a jazz musician loosely based on the great pianist Bud Powell) Ones that are good and often driven by a great performance or two-- (many more of these--no time at moment to continue) Lust for Life --Vincente Minelli (Van Gogh) Birdman of Alcatraz--John Frankenheimer (Robert Stroud) Bird--Clint Eastwood (Charlie Parker) Basquiat--Julian Schnabel I Shot Andy Warhol-- Mary Harron (Valerie Solinas) Moulin Rouge--John Huston (Henri de Toulouse-Lautrec) The Miracle Worker--Arthur Penn (Annie Sullivan and Helen Keller) Coal Miner's Daughter--Michael Apted (Loretta Lynn) Pollock--Ed Harris Amadeus--Milos Forman Sid and Nancy-Alex Cox My Left Foot- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 07:57:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charlotte Mandel Subject: Re: "Louis Pasteur is born!" (Creeley on biopics) In-Reply-To: <20071205.024721.204.9.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Paul Muni played Pasteur. I don't know what Creeley was remembering but as I recollect the movie begins in Pasteur's adulthood. Josephine Hutchinson played the typical quiet concerned wife pouring coffee, aging into powdered white hair. On Dec 5, 2007, at 2:34 AM, steve d. dalachinsky wrote: edward g robinson if i remember played pasteur i got a good education from biopix when i was a kid ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 08:24:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: "Louis Pasteur is born!" (Creeley on biopics) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline David, I like your emphasis on Bresson (what about Au Hazard Balthazar, life of a donkey?). My poem, The Structure of Escape, is a retelling of Un Condamne a Mort Est Echappe. Bresson withdrew words into film diagrams crossed by eyes by windows by white walls attract words oh, cruel cruel lover! The Architect's Son (a son's exploration of the nature of his father, Louis Kahn). Now a faux-bio: The Girl With a Pearl Earring (would you like to see my etchings?) Ciao, Murat On Dec 5, 2007 3:27 AM, David Chirot wrote: > there are many more knocking at the door trying to get in but these > the first ones that came to mind > if one included documentaries there'd be a great many many more here- > bu this what comes up during a quick break in the daily/nightly madness: > > GREAT Biographical FILMS > > La Passion de Jeanne d'Arc--Carl Th. Dreyer > Le Proces de jeanne d'Arc--Robert Bresson > > Gospel According to Saint Matthew--Pier Paulo Pasolini > > Un Grand amour de Beethoven--Abel Gance > Napoleon--Abel Gance > Andrei Rublev--Andrei Tarkovsky > Aguirre der Zorn Gottes--Werner Herzog > > Ivan the Terrible--Sergei Eisenstein > Kagemusha (The Shadow Warrior)--Akira Kurosawa > Raging Bull--Martin Scorcese (Boxer Jake LaMotta) > > The Story of Adele H.--Francois Truffaut (Adele Hugo) > Camille Claudel--Bruno Nuytten > > Un Condamne a mort est echappe, ou Le Vent souflle ou il veut (A Man > Escaped, or The Wind Blows Where it Wants To/The Wind Bloweth where it > Listeth)--Robert Bresson (Andre DeVigny) > > The Enigma of Kaspar Hauser--Werner Herzog > > Simon del Desierto (Simon of the Desert)--Luis Bunuel > Czlowiek z marmuru (Man of Marble)--Andrej Wajda > > Not a "real" bio pic, but loosely one: > > Round Midnight--Bertrand Tavernier (Maestro Saxophonist Dexter Gordon > is fantastic as a jazz musician loosely based on the great pianist > Bud Powell) > > > > Ones that are good and often driven by a great performance or two-- > (many more of these--no time at moment to continue) > > Lust for Life --Vincente Minelli (Van Gogh) > Birdman of Alcatraz--John Frankenheimer (Robert Stroud) > Bird--Clint Eastwood (Charlie Parker) > Basquiat--Julian Schnabel > I Shot Andy Warhol-- Mary Harron (Valerie Solinas) > Moulin Rouge--John Huston (Henri de Toulouse-Lautrec) > The Miracle Worker--Arthur Penn (Annie Sullivan and Helen Keller) > Coal Miner's Daughter--Michael Apted (Loretta Lynn) > Pollock--Ed Harris > Amadeus--Milos Forman > Sid and Nancy-Alex Cox > My Left Foot- > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 08:34:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aryanil Mukherjee Subject: A poem from someone who has never been published In-Reply-To: A<1597.76.197.246.8.1196784411.squirrel@www.poetrypoetry.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I received this poem from a young amateur poet who has never been published anywhere and/or has never sent out any work. I liked the compostition a great lot, especially coming from a never-published young poet - I thought of sharing it with the group. Aryanil ================== Petersburg Diaries i. A queen once gifted built symphonies to her lovers who tried to fill her doorframes and died. Now, queen janes buy a hip-flask-full of irony under her baroque arch to give to a recluse who secretly composes anti-symphonies to survive a city plastic painting over its past. ii. Japanese tourists are like postcards roughly the same size and always meeting picturesque expectations. This one, assisted by another poses prim in the clear light of Catherine's window, and a flash immortalises a floral print shoulder flirting with a Picasso violin framed in bronze. iii. A queen spent her grand passion and hung bridges that opened to let tall ships go by. Today, Catherine's children in red leather jackets haunt the regal rails and wait for whoever will pay for the foxskin designer coat that will look fetching to others only too willing to pay for soft white flesh with no strings, save a cocky purse. iv. He brings an orange flower with a long stalk and halting English as atonement for drunken attention, little knowing that her obstinacy about walking out alone must not be read as a sign of fidelity to an absent man, but to a secret pact with two men divided by generations, to live out an idea called flanerie that so bewitched one, the hashish-smoking Marxist, that he left without unlocking the suitcase full of arcades to stroll in. v. Peter the Great, the blonde guide said, coerced his subjects to shave. If they resisted, he politely invited them over and took charge, ridding them of offensive masculinity. History and anecdote mesh to turn great Peter barber immaculate, snipping busily away to springclean a bristly outpost into a smooth, white colonnaded centre, crisp stamp-marked authentic Europe. vi. A cathedral built like the Parthenon is a souvenir of a chequered history; grand czarist design, monumental tribute to a vision of splendour. Memories of Stalin, however, like sharp efficient snakes Coil up and down the lavish stone columns, flushing the incessant rain of wealth down to a dusty footsoldiered earth. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 09:46:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Dr. Barry S. Alpert" Subject: Re: "Louis Pasteur is born!" (Creeley on biopics) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If we=92re talking formally-innovative biopics, then let me cite two which = I was lucky enough to witness as in-person screenings: =20 =93My Dad Is 100 Years Old=94, a 17 minute collaboration between director G= uy Maddin and writer/actress Isabella Rossellini (she plays Fellini, Hitchc= ock, her mother Ingrid Bergman, Isabella Rossellini, and speaks the voice o= f her father Roberto Rossellini [strictly imaged throughout as a huge tummy= ]). =20 Grizzly Man, by Werner Herzog. At the lectern, the director made an unexpe= cted case for the auteuristic quality of his subject Timothy Treadwell=92s = footage and how it works with (or against) that shot by his director of pho= tography Peter Zeitlinger.=20 =20 =20 Barry Alpert =20 _________________________________________________________________ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/connect.html?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_Wave2_newways_1120= 07= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 23:39:30 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christophe Casamassima Subject: Re: "Louis Pasteur is born!" (Creeley on biopics) Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Any opinions on Walk the Line?=20 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "steve d. dalachinsky" > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: "Louis Pasteur is born!" (Creeley on biopics) > Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 02:34:07 -0500 >=20 >=20 > edward g robinson if i remember played pasteur i got a good education > from biopix when i was a kid > great modgliani film new piaf old breska any ken almost any ken > russell bio film is great > even amadeus was pretty good madame curie on ansd on as i'm writing > this the cops are yelling ast someone to get the fk down on the ground > right outside my window i went out to look indeed he was on the ground > which brings to mind serpico > french connection ah i could go on and on >=20 > On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 16:01:54 -0800 Stephen Baraban > writes: > > I remember reading at least one interview with Robert > > Creeley in which he pointedly mentioned seeing a movie > > in which a doctor pronounces the words "Louis Pasteur > > is born!" I guess this was "The Story of Louis Pasteur" made in > > 1936? I didn't see any such film, but they must have > > set up the situation by having the doctor ask the > > parents if they have names prepared yet--and the > > parents would have said something like "yes, Louis if > > it's a boy, and Catherine if it's a girl". > > > > Anyway, Creeley, at the same time as making a wider > > philosophical point, had isolated the big problem with > > biographical films--they have a hard time not sticking > > the protaganist with a tedious fixed character, set > > from the start. Terrific directors have done poorly in=20 > > their biopics. I don't like Mike Leigh's film about Gilbert and > > Sullivan creating "The Mikado" as much as the other > > films of his I've seen. Roberto Rossellini, according > > to notes provided at a Museum of Modern Art screening, > > valued his biographical film about Italian > > revolutionary Geribaldi, "Viva Italia!", above > > anything else he ever did, but it's hard for me to > > appreciate it all that much--it seemed like another > > fairly pedestrian epic biography with a cast of > > thousands, like "Ghandi" (though Rossellini found a > > path to the creation of excellent didactic biographies > > about people like Pascal and Louis XIV in his final > > "educational film" period). Francis Ford Coppola's movie about a maveri= ck car > > manufacturer, "Tucker: The Man and His Dream"--totally > > held my interest--Coppola made it wonderfully *festive*. > > > > Is Spike Lee's Malcolm movie also one of the unusual > > ones?--I can't offer an opinion, I've only seen > > sections of it on TV. > > > > Mostly I've experienced biopics as utilitarian > > constructs from which I could extract a little > > and some worthwhile information. From > > biopics I've learned some things about Ghandi, salsero > > Hector Lavoe, & sex researcher Dr. Kinsey. I'd like to see the=20 > > flicks Aldon lists; I've missed > > them. Oh, and "Heart Like a Wheel", about drag racer Shirley > > Muldowney, for me also transcended the usual deal--or > > do I (a non driver) have some special thing for movies > > about cars? --- ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > > > > > examples -- > > Great bio pics that have little to do with their > > > subjects: > > > > Lady Sings the Blues > > > The Barretts of Wimpole Street > > > > This year's worst bio pic: > > > > Talk to Me > > > > > Some actually good bio pics, actually about their > > > subjects: > > > > Coal Miner's Daughter > > > A Mighty Heart (despite the fact that the title > > > sounds like one of Christopher > > > Guest's parodies) > > > Hoffa > > > > > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > We are enslaved by > > > what makes us free -- intolerable > > > paradox at the heart of speech. > > > --Robert Kelly > > > > Sailing the blogosphere at: > > > http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > > > > Aldon L. Nielsen > > > Kelly Professor of American Literature > > > The Pennsylvania State University > > > 116 Burrowes > > > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > > > (814) 865-0091 > > > > _________________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > > Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. > > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > =3D Massage Therapy Training Train for a career in massage therapy at these schools near you. Request in= fo to learn more. http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick?redirectid=3Deaad84afcb41292ad1235= 01169cfb62d --=20 Powered By Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 10:45:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: A poem from someone who has never been published In-Reply-To: <00c801c83743$7e8a2ba0$ea2c7a92@net.plm.eds.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Aryanil: Unpublished or not, the poet deserves a name. What's a professional poet? Mark At 08:34 AM 12/5/2007, you wrote: >I received this poem from a young amateur poet who has never been published >anywhere and/or has never sent out any work. I liked the compostition a >great lot, especially coming from a never-published young poet - I thought >of sharing it with the group. > >Aryanil > >================== > > >Petersburg Diaries > >i. A queen once gifted built symphonies >to her lovers who tried to fill >her doorframes and died. Now, queen janes >buy a hip-flask-full of irony >under her baroque arch to give >to a recluse who secretly >composes anti-symphonies >to survive a city >plastic painting over its past. > >ii. Japanese tourists are like postcards > roughly the same size and always > meeting picturesque expectations. > This one, assisted by another >poses prim in the clear light >of Catherine's window, and a flash >immortalises a floral print shoulder >flirting with a Picasso violin >framed in bronze. > >iii. A queen spent her grand passion and hung >bridges that opened to let tall ships >go by. Today, Catherine's children >in red leather jackets haunt the regal rails >and wait for whoever will pay >for the foxskin designer coat that will >look fetching to others only too willing >to pay for soft white flesh >with no strings, save a cocky purse. > >iv. He brings an orange flower with a long stalk >and halting English as atonement >for drunken attention, little knowing that >her obstinacy about walking out alone >must not be read as a sign of fidelity >to an absent man, but to a secret pact >with two men divided by generations, to live out >an idea called flanerie that so bewitched one, >the hashish-smoking Marxist, that he left >without unlocking the suitcase full of arcades >to stroll in. > >v. Peter the Great, the blonde guide said, >coerced his subjects to shave. If they >resisted, he politely invited >them over and took charge, ridding >them of offensive masculinity. >History and anecdote mesh to >turn great Peter barber immaculate, >snipping busily away to >springclean a bristly outpost into a >smooth, white colonnaded centre, >crisp stamp-marked authentic Europe. > >vi. A cathedral built like >the Parthenon is a souvenir of >a chequered history; grand czarist design, >monumental tribute to a vision >of splendour. Memories >of Stalin, however, >like sharp efficient snakes >Coil up and down the lavish stone >columns, flushing the incessant >rain of wealth down to a dusty >footsoldiered earth. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 08:12:58 -0500 Reply-To: biorhetorics@mail.dk Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Philip Pain Subject: Re: "Louis Pasteur is born!" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ken Russell's movies were always memorable and lovably over the top. His Mahler and the piece he did on Elgar was great, especially for a person who lived in Malvern and walked the hills - and a Mahler fan too. I think that is wonderful from a cognitive point of view that one can watch or hear something, and then a flood of associations come flooding in - this is how I suppose short poetic forms operate, esp. those with Chinese characters that can evoke other associations on the calligraphic level. My mother always couldn't get past "I think I know who that is..wait a minute isn't it..no it might be.." Of course that is true also in poetry where one stops and wonders if the line was filched from X or Y. And Louis Pasteur - maybe Steve D. knows the Grand niece of Louis who in her 90's or so would go upstairs for one of George Whitman's infamous glasses of tea. She told me how her father (L.P's nephew) was in Australia once to look after Sarah Bernhardt's dogs... _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 09:55:52 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Skip Fox Subject: Re: A poem from someone who has never been published In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20071205104437.064ed8a0@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit By "etymological definition" an amateur poet loves what he or she is doing, and this appears to be the case here. (Save me from what some call professionals.) I hope this poet keeps writing and decides to enter the stream of publication &c. Seems very good for one who has not submitted before. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 07:56:58 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: "Louis Pasteur is born!" (Creeley on biopics) In-Reply-To: <20071205153930.976F713EF1@ws5-9.us4.outblaze.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Amadeus once seemed like a wonderful film since, at the time of it's release and for some time thereafter it seemed wonderful as a good symbol of how artists tend to treat each other. Nevertheless, the pure fact of the matter is that Salieri didn't murder Mozart. There are at least one or two good NY Times articles in recent years by scholars disproving the old myth about Salieri, unfortunately promoted also by Pushkin and the composer Rimsky-Korsakov in a short opera. Still, it's time to start maligning Salieri. He wasn't as great a composer as Mozart ( who was?) but a lot of his music is pretty good and he deserves better than to be maligned with an infamous murder that never happened. Mozart died of natural causes. Regards, Tom Savage Christophe Casamassima wrote: Any opinions on Walk the Line? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "steve d. dalachinsky" > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: "Louis Pasteur is born!" (Creeley on biopics) > Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 02:34:07 -0500 > > > edward g robinson if i remember played pasteur i got a good education > from biopix when i was a kid > great modgliani film new piaf old breska any ken almost any ken > russell bio film is great > even amadeus was pretty good madame curie on ansd on as i'm writing > this the cops are yelling ast someone to get the fk down on the ground > right outside my window i went out to look indeed he was on the ground > which brings to mind serpico > french connection ah i could go on and on > > On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 16:01:54 -0800 Stephen Baraban > writes: > > I remember reading at least one interview with Robert > > Creeley in which he pointedly mentioned seeing a movie > > in which a doctor pronounces the words "Louis Pasteur > > is born!" I guess this was "The Story of Louis Pasteur" made in > > 1936? I didn't see any such film, but they must have > > set up the situation by having the doctor ask the > > parents if they have names prepared yet--and the > > parents would have said something like "yes, Louis if > > it's a boy, and Catherine if it's a girl". > > > > Anyway, Creeley, at the same time as making a wider > > philosophical point, had isolated the big problem with > > biographical films--they have a hard time not sticking > > the protaganist with a tedious fixed character, set > > from the start. Terrific directors have done poorly in > > their biopics. I don't like Mike Leigh's film about Gilbert and > > Sullivan creating "The Mikado" as much as the other > > films of his I've seen. Roberto Rossellini, according > > to notes provided at a Museum of Modern Art screening, > > valued his biographical film about Italian > > revolutionary Geribaldi, "Viva Italia!", above > > anything else he ever did, but it's hard for me to > > appreciate it all that much--it seemed like another > > fairly pedestrian epic biography with a cast of > > thousands, like "Ghandi" (though Rossellini found a > > path to the creation of excellent didactic biographies > > about people like Pascal and Louis XIV in his final > > "educational film" period). Francis Ford Coppola's movie about a maverick car > > manufacturer, "Tucker: The Man and His Dream"--totally > > held my interest--Coppola made it wonderfully *festive*. > > > > Is Spike Lee's Malcolm movie also one of the unusual > > ones?--I can't offer an opinion, I've only seen > > sections of it on TV. > > > > Mostly I've experienced biopics as utilitarian > > constructs from which I could extract a little > > and some worthwhile information. From > > biopics I've learned some things about Ghandi, salsero > > Hector Lavoe, & sex researcher Dr. Kinsey. I'd like to see the > > flicks Aldon lists; I've missed > > them. Oh, and "Heart Like a Wheel", about drag racer Shirley > > Muldowney, for me also transcended the usual deal--or > > do I (a non driver) have some special thing for movies > > about cars? --- ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > > > > > examples -- > > Great bio pics that have little to do with their > > > subjects: > > > > Lady Sings the Blues > > > The Barretts of Wimpole Street > > > > This year's worst bio pic: > > > > Talk to Me > > > > > Some actually good bio pics, actually about their > > > subjects: > > > > Coal Miner's Daughter > > > A Mighty Heart (despite the fact that the title > > > sounds like one of Christopher > > > Guest's parodies) > > > Hoffa > > > > > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > We are enslaved by > > > what makes us free -- intolerable > > > paradox at the heart of speech. > > > --Robert Kelly > > > > Sailing the blogosphere at: > > > http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > > > > Aldon L. Nielsen > > > Kelly Professor of American Literature > > > The Pennsylvania State University > > > 116 Burrowes > > > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > > > (814) 865-0091 > > > > _________________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > > Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. > > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > = Massage Therapy Training Train for a career in massage therapy at these schools near you. Request info to learn more. http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick?redirectid=eaad84afcb41292ad123501169cfb62d -- Powered By Outblaze --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 08:04:34 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: "Louis Pasteur is born!" (Creeley on biopics) In-Reply-To: <1dec21ae0712042121r352397d2wd58fb3739e1f77cb@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I also liked Topsy Turvy because it presented a wealth of G&S material. Also, someone on the list complained about Gandhi. I thought that was a marvelous movie, too. A lot of biopics are stupid but these seem to be two of the better ones. Paul Muni was in one in the thirties about the Mexican revolution that was pretty good, if I remember. Marlon Brando's one about Zapata from the fifties looks pretty sad now. Even his makeup is bad. Regards, Tom Savage Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: I love Mike Leigh's "Topsy Turvy" about Gilbert and Sullivan, not because of what it reveals about them; but because of the intimations of sickness, sterility and disease which underlie the glitter of Victorian high life; also because of the exquisite and witty performances of scenes from The Mikado and other G. & S. plays. It is that contrast which is stunning and to me very moving. Another movie which had a last impact on me -though I don't know how good a movie it is- is V. Minelli's Lust for Life. I never forget Van Gogh (Kirk Douglas) spewing some nonsense about why Gauguin (Anthony Quinn) does not apply more color to his paintings (Van Gogh's signature "feeling" color palette) and Gauguin replying, "I like it flat." I love that response; a whole aesthetic is buried in it. An absolutely horrible bio picture (of an imaginary "great artist") is Scorcese's contribution to a trilogy whose name escapes me. (The other two were, one, an odd and very interesting Coppola contribution, a fairy tale like episode with kids taking placein Manhattan, two, an equally awful contribution by Woody Allen, I think, having to do with his mother. In Scorcese's piece, with operatic, a la Scorcese brush strokes, the great artist paints while giving his assistant female admirer a hard time, saying art is all sweat and tears. I think a very interesting movie about the processes of art (in this case, painting) is La Petite Noisette (the long version). In that movie the audience hears in real time (it's a very long movie) the scratches the painter's specific ink-pen makes on the canvas. There is something violent, predatory in the sounds.The movie shows how the painter c leans and changes his pen, etc. One enters the creative process in terms of the passage of time Another wonderful movie is Kiss of the Spider Woman, John Hurt (a gay prisoner, in jail for being gay) and Raoul Julia (a mach political prisoner) are put in the same cell. Hurt tells his fantasies about a love affair (which Julia is reluctant to hear) in terms of a Nazi soap opera (a partisan woman falls in love with a blonde, nazi officer, who himself has his face slightly painted). The kitchy style of these fantasy episodes are contrasted with the realism of the jail cell. Gradually, Julia is drawn to Hurt's tale and a love affair develops between the two. It is, to me, a struggle between between the power of "reality" and the healing power of art. TO BE CONTINUED Ciao, Murat On Dec 4, 2007 7:01 PM, Stephen Baraban wrote: > I remember reading at least one interview with Robert > Creeley in which he pointedly mentioned seeing a movie > in which a doctor pronounces the words "Louis Pasteur > is born!" > > I guess this was "The Story of Louis Pasteur" made in > 1936? I didn't see any such film, but they must have > set up the situation by having the doctor ask the > parents if they have names prepared yet--and the > parents would have said something like "yes, Louis if > it's a boy, and Catherine if it's a girl". > > Anyway, Creeley, at the same time as making a wider > philosophical point, had isolated the big problem with > biographical films--they have a hard time not sticking > the protaganist with a tedious fixed character, set > from the start. > > Terrific directors have done poorly in their biopics. > I don't like Mike Leigh's film about Gilbert and > Sullivan creating "The Mikado" as much as the other > films of his I've seen. Roberto Rossellini, according > to notes provided at a Museum of Modern Art screening, > valued his biographical film about Italian > revolutionary Geribaldi, "Viva Italia!", above > anything else he ever did, but it's hard for me to > appreciate it all that much--it seemed like another > fairly pedestrian epic biography with a cast of > thousands, like "Ghandi" (though Rossellini found a > path to the creation of excellent didactic biographies > about people like Pascal and Louis XIV in his final > "educational film" period). > > Francis Ford Coppola's movie about a maverick car > manufacturer, "Tucker: The Man and His Dream"--totally > held my interest--Coppola made it wonderfully > *festive*. > > Is Spike Lee's Malcolm movie also one of the unusual > ones?--I can't offer an opinion, I've only seen > sections of it on TV. > > Mostly I've experienced biopics as utilitarian > constructs from which I could extract a little > entertainment and some worthwhile information. From > biopics I've learned some things about Ghandi, salsero > Hector Lavoe, & sex researcher Dr. Kinsey. > > I'd like to see the flicks Aldon lists; I've missed > them. > > Oh, and "Heart Like a Wheel", about drag racer Shirley > Muldowney, for me also transcended the usual deal--or > do I (a non driver) have some special thing for movies > about cars? > > --- ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > > > examples -- > > > > Great bio pics that have little to do with their > > subjects: > > > > Lady Sings the Blues > > The Barretts of Wimpole Street > > > > This year's worst bio pic: > > > > Talk to Me > > > > > > Some actually good bio pics, actually about their > > subjects: > > > > Coal Miner's Daughter > > A Mighty Heart (despite the fact that the title > > sounds like one of Christopher > > Guest's parodies) > > Hoffa > > > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > We are enslaved by > > what makes us free -- intolerable > > paradox at the heart of speech. > > --Robert Kelly > > > > Sailing the blogosphere at: > > http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > > > > Aldon L. Nielsen > > Kelly Professor of American Literature > > The Pennsylvania State University > > 116 Burrowes > > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > > > (814) 865-0091 > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. > Make Yahoo! your homepage. > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 11:08:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: "Louis Pasteur is born!" (Creeley on biopics) In-Reply-To: <20071205153930.976F713EF1@ws5-9.us4.outblaze.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Paul Muni played Pasteur, also Zola in The Life of Emile Zola (1937). Biopics were all the rage back then. Dreyer's Passion of Joan of Arc (1928), Griffith's Abraham Lincoln (1930), Disraeli (George Arliss in the lead, 1929), Ford's Young Mr. Lincoln (1939) come to mind. Best of the lot (with the Dreyer): Sternberg's The Scarlet Empress (1934, Marlene Dietrich as Catherine the Great), an amazing film by any standards, more seductive and a hell of a lot scarier than Bride of Frankenstein. The set decoration acts as a kind of greek chorus. Really. Also not to forget are Eisenstein's Alexander Nevsky and Ivan the Terrible I and II. I just found a Wikipedia list at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_biographical_films. It's enormous. Calling some of the films biopics is questionable, but a very useful list. Mark At 10:39 AM 12/5/2007, you wrote: >Any opinions on Walk the Line? > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "steve d. dalachinsky" > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: Re: "Louis Pasteur is born!" (Creeley on biopics) > > Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 02:34:07 -0500 > > > > > > edward g robinson if i remember played pasteur i got a good education > > from biopix when i was a kid > > great modgliani film new piaf old breska any ken almost any ken > > russell bio film is great > > even amadeus was pretty good madame curie on ansd on as i'm writing > > this the cops are yelling ast someone to get the fk down on the ground > > right outside my window i went out to look indeed he was on the ground > > which brings to mind serpico > > french connection ah i could go on and on > > > > On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 16:01:54 -0800 Stephen Baraban > > writes: > > > I remember reading at least one interview with Robert > > > Creeley in which he pointedly mentioned seeing a movie > > > in which a doctor pronounces the words "Louis Pasteur > > > is born!" I guess this was "The Story of Louis Pasteur" made in > > > 1936? I didn't see any such film, but they must have > > > set up the situation by having the doctor ask the > > > parents if they have names prepared yet--and the > > > parents would have said something like "yes, Louis if > > > it's a boy, and Catherine if it's a girl". > > > > > > Anyway, Creeley, at the same time as making a wider > > > philosophical point, had isolated the big problem with > > > biographical films--they have a hard time not sticking > > > the protaganist with a tedious fixed character, set > > > from the start. Terrific directors have done poorly in > > > their biopics. I don't like Mike Leigh's film about Gilbert and > > > Sullivan creating "The Mikado" as much as the other > > > films of his I've seen. Roberto Rossellini, according > > > to notes provided at a Museum of Modern Art screening, > > > valued his biographical film about Italian > > > revolutionary Geribaldi, "Viva Italia!", above > > > anything else he ever did, but it's hard for me to > > > appreciate it all that much--it seemed like another > > > fairly pedestrian epic biography with a cast of > > > thousands, like "Ghandi" (though Rossellini found a > > > path to the creation of excellent didactic biographies > > > about people like Pascal and Louis XIV in his final > > > "educational film" period). Francis Ford Coppola's movie about > a maverick car > > > manufacturer, "Tucker: The Man and His Dream"--totally > > > held my interest--Coppola made it wonderfully *festive*. > > > > > > Is Spike Lee's Malcolm movie also one of the unusual > > > ones?--I can't offer an opinion, I've only seen > > > sections of it on TV. > > > > > > Mostly I've experienced biopics as utilitarian > > > constructs from which I could extract a little > > > and some worthwhile information. From > > > biopics I've learned some things about Ghandi, salsero > > > Hector Lavoe, & sex researcher Dr. Kinsey. I'd like to see the > > > flicks Aldon lists; I've missed > > > them. Oh, and "Heart Like a Wheel", about drag racer Shirley > > > Muldowney, for me also transcended the usual deal--or > > > do I (a non driver) have some special thing for movies > > > about cars? --- ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > > > > > > > examples -- > > Great bio pics that have little to do with their > > > > subjects: > > > > > Lady Sings the Blues > > > > The Barretts of Wimpole Street > > > > > This year's worst bio pic: > > > > > Talk to Me > > > > > > Some actually good bio pics, actually about their > > > > subjects: > > > > > Coal Miner's Daughter > > > > A Mighty Heart (despite the fact that the title > > > > sounds like one of Christopher > > > > Guest's parodies) > > > > Hoffa > > > > > > > > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >> > > > > > We are enslaved by > > > > what makes us free -- intolerable > > > > paradox at the heart of speech. > > > > --Robert Kelly > > > > > Sailing the blogosphere at: > > > > http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > > > > > Aldon L. Nielsen > > > > Kelly Professor of American Literature > > > > The Pennsylvania State University > > > > 116 Burrowes > > > > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > > > > (814) 865-0091 > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________________ > > ___________ > > > Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. > > > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > > > > > >= >Massage Therapy Training >Train for a career in massage therapy at these schools near you. >Request info to learn more. >http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick?redirectid=eaad84afcb41292ad123501169cfb62d > > >-- >Powered By Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 11:24:25 -0500 Reply-To: tyrone williams Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tyrone williams Subject: Re: A poem from someone who has never been published Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aryanil, That's a wonderful poem. Tyrone -----Original Message----- >From: Aryanil Mukherjee >Sent: Dec 5, 2007 8:34 AM >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: A poem from someone who has never been published > >I received this poem from a young amateur poet who has never been published >anywhere and/or has never sent out any work. I liked the compostition a >great lot, especially coming from a never-published young poet - I thought >of sharing it with the group. > >Aryanil > >================== > > >Petersburg Diaries > >i. A queen once gifted built symphonies >to her lovers who tried to fill >her doorframes and died. Now, queen janes >buy a hip-flask-full of irony >under her baroque arch to give >to a recluse who secretly >composes anti-symphonies >to survive a city >plastic painting over its past. > >ii. Japanese tourists are like postcards > roughly the same size and always > meeting picturesque expectations. > This one, assisted by another >poses prim in the clear light >of Catherine's window, and a flash >immortalises a floral print shoulder >flirting with a Picasso violin >framed in bronze. > >iii. A queen spent her grand passion and hung >bridges that opened to let tall ships >go by. Today, Catherine's children >in red leather jackets haunt the regal rails >and wait for whoever will pay >for the foxskin designer coat that will >look fetching to others only too willing >to pay for soft white flesh >with no strings, save a cocky purse. > >iv. He brings an orange flower with a long stalk >and halting English as atonement >for drunken attention, little knowing that >her obstinacy about walking out alone >must not be read as a sign of fidelity >to an absent man, but to a secret pact >with two men divided by generations, to live out >an idea called flanerie that so bewitched one, >the hashish-smoking Marxist, that he left >without unlocking the suitcase full of arcades >to stroll in. > >v. Peter the Great, the blonde guide said, >coerced his subjects to shave. If they >resisted, he politely invited >them over and took charge, ridding >them of offensive masculinity. >History and anecdote mesh to >turn great Peter barber immaculate, >snipping busily away to >springclean a bristly outpost into a >smooth, white colonnaded centre, >crisp stamp-marked authentic Europe. > >vi. A cathedral built like >the Parthenon is a souvenir of >a chequered history; grand czarist design, >monumental tribute to a vision >of splendour. Memories >of Stalin, however, >like sharp efficient snakes >Coil up and down the lavish stone >columns, flushing the incessant >rain of wealth down to a dusty >footsoldiered earth. Tyrone Williams ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 11:27:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aryanil Mukherjee Subject: Re: A poem from someone who has never been published In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20071205104437.064ed8a0@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mark I don't know who's a pro-poet...an amateur poet for me is someone who rarely publishes just writes for oneself and maybe a few friends. The poet's name is Joy Mitra. Aryanil -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Mark Weiss Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 10:45 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: A poem from someone who has never been published Aryanil: Unpublished or not, the poet deserves a name. What's a professional poet? Mark At 08:34 AM 12/5/2007, you wrote: >I received this poem from a young amateur poet who has never been published >anywhere and/or has never sent out any work. I liked the compostition a >great lot, especially coming from a never-published young poet - I thought >of sharing it with the group. > >Aryanil > >================== > > >Petersburg Diaries > >i. A queen once gifted built symphonies >to her lovers who tried to fill >her doorframes and died. Now, queen janes >buy a hip-flask-full of irony >under her baroque arch to give >to a recluse who secretly >composes anti-symphonies >to survive a city >plastic painting over its past. > >ii. Japanese tourists are like postcards > roughly the same size and always > meeting picturesque expectations. > This one, assisted by another >poses prim in the clear light >of Catherine's window, and a flash >immortalises a floral print shoulder >flirting with a Picasso violin >framed in bronze. > >iii. A queen spent her grand passion and hung >bridges that opened to let tall ships >go by. Today, Catherine's children >in red leather jackets haunt the regal rails >and wait for whoever will pay >for the foxskin designer coat that will >look fetching to others only too willing >to pay for soft white flesh >with no strings, save a cocky purse. > >iv. He brings an orange flower with a long stalk >and halting English as atonement >for drunken attention, little knowing that >her obstinacy about walking out alone >must not be read as a sign of fidelity >to an absent man, but to a secret pact >with two men divided by generations, to live out >an idea called flanerie that so bewitched one, >the hashish-smoking Marxist, that he left >without unlocking the suitcase full of arcades >to stroll in. > >v. Peter the Great, the blonde guide said, >coerced his subjects to shave. If they >resisted, he politely invited >them over and took charge, ridding >them of offensive masculinity. >History and anecdote mesh to >turn great Peter barber immaculate, >snipping busily away to >springclean a bristly outpost into a >smooth, white colonnaded centre, >crisp stamp-marked authentic Europe. > >vi. A cathedral built like >the Parthenon is a souvenir of >a chequered history; grand czarist design, >monumental tribute to a vision >of splendour. Memories >of Stalin, however, >like sharp efficient snakes >Coil up and down the lavish stone >columns, flushing the incessant >rain of wealth down to a dusty >footsoldiered earth. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 11:45:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: In which Walmart meets Melvin B. Tolson In-Reply-To: 1196830577l.450632l.0l@psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Speaking of bio pics -- Last reports, only a few months ago, had the Denzel Washington/Oprah Winfrey Tolson Movie (THE GREAT DEBATERS) in preproduction, but this morning's NY TIMES reports that the movie will open in theaters in just a few weeks! The movie is about Tolson's work as debate coach and his amazing thirties era team -- I suspect it will be a COACH movie and will have little to do with poetry (though Washington will probably say poetic things and be shown crumpling up pieces of paper) -- But here's the kicker -- the story also reports that Walmart will contribute $100,000 to endow a Melvin B. Tolson scholarship fund. here's the link to the story: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 12:58:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: A poem from someone who has never been published In-Reply-To: <00c801c83743$7e8a2ba0$ea2c7a92@net.plm.eds.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Aryanil, that's a fantastic piece. Ciao, Murat On Dec 5, 2007 8:34 AM, Aryanil Mukherjee wrote: > I received this poem from a young amateur poet who has never been > published > anywhere and/or has never sent out any work. I liked the compostition a > great lot, especially coming from a never-published young poet - I thought > of sharing it with the group. > > Aryanil > > ================== > > > Petersburg Diaries > > i. A queen once gifted built symphonies > to her lovers who tried to fill > her doorframes and died. Now, queen janes > buy a hip-flask-full of irony > under her baroque arch to give > to a recluse who secretly > composes anti-symphonies > to survive a city > plastic painting over its past. > > ii. Japanese tourists are like postcards > roughly the same size and always > meeting picturesque expectations. > This one, assisted by another > poses prim in the clear light > of Catherine's window, and a flash > immortalises a floral print shoulder > flirting with a Picasso violin > framed in bronze. > > iii. A queen spent her grand passion and hung > bridges that opened to let tall ships > go by. Today, Catherine's children > in red leather jackets haunt the regal rails > and wait for whoever will pay > for the foxskin designer coat that will > look fetching to others only too willing > to pay for soft white flesh > with no strings, save a cocky purse. > > iv. He brings an orange flower with a long stalk > and halting English as atonement > for drunken attention, little knowing that > her obstinacy about walking out alone > must not be read as a sign of fidelity > to an absent man, but to a secret pact > with two men divided by generations, to live out > an idea called flanerie that so bewitched one, > the hashish-smoking Marxist, that he left > without unlocking the suitcase full of arcades > to stroll in. > > v. Peter the Great, the blonde guide said, > coerced his subjects to shave. If they > resisted, he politely invited > them over and took charge, ridding > them of offensive masculinity. > History and anecdote mesh to > turn great Peter barber immaculate, > snipping busily away to > springclean a bristly outpost into a > smooth, white colonnaded centre, > crisp stamp-marked authentic Europe. > > vi. A cathedral built like > the Parthenon is a souvenir of > a chequered history; grand czarist design, > monumental tribute to a vision > of splendour. Memories > of Stalin, however, > like sharp efficient snakes > Coil up and down the lavish stone > columns, flushing the incessant > rain of wealth down to a dusty > footsoldiered earth. > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 11:23:37 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Re: "Louis Pasteur is born!" (Creeley on biopics) In-Reply-To: <1dec21ae0712050524h187f558dja263a58e16020de6@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear Murat: Many thanks for the poem Yes, Au Hasard Balthazar can be considered very much a biography because it is the story of a soul who finds Grace. It is in many ways the last Bresson film in which one finds this moment. The film marks his shifting to color--the Jansenism of the works in Black and White, interestingly, become more pessimistic and bleak, without the moment of Grace, in the works of color. In a religious sense, this is very Jansenist-- in the Catholic tradition, color plays such a very great role and in especially in terms of Illumination. To communicate the withdrawal of Grace in color rather than in black and white I find very interesting. Color becomes the saturation of the senses by the purely physical of the Fallen World without Grace. The opulence of color, after the monasticism and purifiying of the characters in the black and white films, is treated as though it introduces a new form of shock-encounter in the world Bresson spirituality is grappling with. And from which it doesn't seem, from his works at least, he ever recovered. I liked a lot his final film, The Devil Next Time--it has a kind of strange "black humor" in the paradoxical "twist" at the end--with the strange and I think very Pascalian treatment of the essay at suicide which becomes entangled with murder. One finds a knot--not a syllogism! (My understanding of Jansenism, much as I try, and as much a I like Pascal's writings, is still very limited.) Paul Schrader, who wrote the screenplay for TAXI DRIVER and went on to direct Cat People, Blue Collar, Mishimima, Hard Core and others-- was raised in a very strict fundamentalist family. He never saw a film before age 18. Prior to his film career really taking off off, he published a very interesting book called TRANSCENDENTAL CINEMA: Ozu, Bresson, Dreyer. TAXI DRIVER is very much in the Puritan tradition of "regeneration through violence" which runs through so much American culture, especially in the Western, as in the great Eastwood directed Trilogy of High Plains Drifter, Pale Rider, Unforgiven. If you compare the uses of violence and the relation of violence to language in Taxi Driver with Raging Bull, a very Catholic film, you can see the what a great part Schrader played in creating the character and "regeneration" of Travis Bickle, "God's Lonely Man." (Taxi Driver was loosely inspired by the Milwaukee-buried Diaries of Arthur Bremer, the Milwaukeean who stalked Nixon and wound up shooting George Wallace and has just been released from prison after thirty-some years. Interestingly, Milwaukee was the site of the attempted assassination of Teddy Roosevelt when in 1912 he was running for president as the Third Party Bull Moose candidate. Only the thickness of his speech stuffed inside his jacket over his heart prevented Teddy from going down like a Bull Moose that day. As he might say himself, that was one "Bully of a speech!" to stop a closely fired bullet like that.) On Dec 5, 2007 5:24 AM, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > David, > > I like your emphasis on Bresson (what about Au Hazard Balthazar, life of a > donkey?). My poem, The Structure of Escape, is a retelling of Un Condamne a > Mort Est Echappe. > > Bresson > withdrew words > into film diagrams > crossed by eyes > by windows by white > walls attract words > oh, cruel cruel > lover! > > The Architect's Son (a son's exploration of the nature of his father, Louis > Kahn). > > Now a faux-bio: The Girl With a Pearl Earring (would you like to see my > etchings?) > > Ciao, > > Murat > > > On Dec 5, 2007 3:27 AM, David Chirot wrote: > > > there are many more knocking at the door trying to get in but these > > the first ones that came to mind > > if one included documentaries there'd be a great many many more here- > > bu this what comes up during a quick break in the daily/nightly madness: > > > > GREAT Biographical FILMS > > > > La Passion de Jeanne d'Arc--Carl Th. Dreyer > > Le Proces de jeanne d'Arc--Robert Bresson > > > > Gospel According to Saint Matthew--Pier Paulo Pasolini > > > > Un Grand amour de Beethoven--Abel Gance > > Napoleon--Abel Gance > > Andrei Rublev--Andrei Tarkovsky > > Aguirre der Zorn Gottes--Werner Herzog > > > > Ivan the Terrible--Sergei Eisenstein > > Kagemusha (The Shadow Warrior)--Akira Kurosawa > > Raging Bull--Martin Scorcese (Boxer Jake LaMotta) > > > > The Story of Adele H.--Francois Truffaut (Adele Hugo) > > Camille Claudel--Bruno Nuytten > > > > Un Condamne a mort est echappe, ou Le Vent souflle ou il veut (A Man > > Escaped, or The Wind Blows Where it Wants To/The Wind Bloweth where it > > Listeth)--Robert Bresson (Andre DeVigny) > > > > The Enigma of Kaspar Hauser--Werner Herzog > > > > Simon del Desierto (Simon of the Desert)--Luis Bunuel > > Czlowiek z marmuru (Man of Marble)--Andrej Wajda > > > > Not a "real" bio pic, but loosely one: > > > > Round Midnight--Bertrand Tavernier (Maestro Saxophonist Dexter Gordon > > is fantastic as a jazz musician loosely based on the great pianist > > Bud Powell) > > > > > > > > Ones that are good and often driven by a great performance or two-- > > (many more of these--no time at moment to continue) > > > > Lust for Life --Vincente Minelli (Van Gogh) > > Birdman of Alcatraz--John Frankenheimer (Robert Stroud) > > Bird--Clint Eastwood (Charlie Parker) > > Basquiat--Julian Schnabel > > I Shot Andy Warhol-- Mary Harron (Valerie Solinas) > > Moulin Rouge--John Huston (Henri de Toulouse-Lautrec) > > The Miracle Worker--Arthur Penn (Annie Sullivan and Helen Keller) > > Coal Miner's Daughter--Michael Apted (Loretta Lynn) > > Pollock--Ed Harris > > Amadeus--Milos Forman > > Sid and Nancy-Alex Cox > > My Left Foot- > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 12:09:54 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve russell Subject: Re: "Louis Pasteur is born!" (Creeley on biopics)/no writers In-Reply-To: <20071205153930.976F713EF1@ws5-9.us4.outblaze.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Or the one on Ray Charles, a well done, but predictable Hollywood flic. Notice how many biopics are about musicians. Nothing on Pound. Or the Beats. Or Berryman. Unlike Dylan, these are not household names. Everyone's heard of Dylan. But Pound? Too damn bad. An Anne Sexton bio could examine the 50s & probably get a decent audience. Christophe Casamassima wrote: Any opinions on Walk the Line? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "steve d. dalachinsky" > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: "Louis Pasteur is born!" (Creeley on biopics) > Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 02:34:07 -0500 > > > edward g robinson if i remember played pasteur i got a good education > from biopix when i was a kid > great modgliani film new piaf old breska any ken almost any ken > russell bio film is great > even amadeus was pretty good madame curie on ansd on as i'm writing > this the cops are yelling ast someone to get the fk down on the ground > right outside my window i went out to look indeed he was on the ground > which brings to mind serpico > french connection ah i could go on and on > > On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 16:01:54 -0800 Stephen Baraban > writes: > > I remember reading at least one interview with Robert > > Creeley in which he pointedly mentioned seeing a movie > > in which a doctor pronounces the words "Louis Pasteur > > is born!" I guess this was "The Story of Louis Pasteur" made in > > 1936? I didn't see any such film, but they must have > > set up the situation by having the doctor ask the > > parents if they have names prepared yet--and the > > parents would have said something like "yes, Louis if > > it's a boy, and Catherine if it's a girl". > > > > Anyway, Creeley, at the same time as making a wider > > philosophical point, had isolated the big problem with > > biographical films--they have a hard time not sticking > > the protaganist with a tedious fixed character, set > > from the start. Terrific directors have done poorly in > > their biopics. I don't like Mike Leigh's film about Gilbert and > > Sullivan creating "The Mikado" as much as the other > > films of his I've seen. Roberto Rossellini, according > > to notes provided at a Museum of Modern Art screening, > > valued his biographical film about Italian > > revolutionary Geribaldi, "Viva Italia!", above > > anything else he ever did, but it's hard for me to > > appreciate it all that much--it seemed like another > > fairly pedestrian epic biography with a cast of > > thousands, like "Ghandi" (though Rossellini found a > > path to the creation of excellent didactic biographies > > about people like Pascal and Louis XIV in his final > > "educational film" period). Francis Ford Coppola's movie about a maverick car > > manufacturer, "Tucker: The Man and His Dream"--totally > > held my interest--Coppola made it wonderfully *festive*. > > > > Is Spike Lee's Malcolm movie also one of the unusual > > ones?--I can't offer an opinion, I've only seen > > sections of it on TV. > > > > Mostly I've experienced biopics as utilitarian > > constructs from which I could extract a little > > and some worthwhile information. From > > biopics I've learned some things about Ghandi, salsero > > Hector Lavoe, & sex researcher Dr. Kinsey. I'd like to see the > > flicks Aldon lists; I've missed > > them. Oh, and "Heart Like a Wheel", about drag racer Shirley > > Muldowney, for me also transcended the usual deal--or > > do I (a non driver) have some special thing for movies > > about cars? --- ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: > > > > > examples -- > > Great bio pics that have little to do with their > > > subjects: > > > > Lady Sings the Blues > > > The Barretts of Wimpole Street > > > > This year's worst bio pic: > > > > Talk to Me > > > > > Some actually good bio pics, actually about their > > > subjects: > > > > Coal Miner's Daughter > > > A Mighty Heart (despite the fact that the title > > > sounds like one of Christopher > > > Guest's parodies) > > > Hoffa > > > > > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > We are enslaved by > > > what makes us free -- intolerable > > > paradox at the heart of speech. > > > --Robert Kelly > > > > Sailing the blogosphere at: > > > http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > > > > Aldon L. Nielsen > > > Kelly Professor of American Literature > > > The Pennsylvania State University > > > 116 Burrowes > > > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > > > (814) 865-0091 > > > > _________________________________________________________________________ > ___________ > > Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. > > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > = Massage Therapy Training Train for a career in massage therapy at these schools near you. Request info to learn more. http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick?redirectid=eaad84afcb41292ad123501169cfb62d -- Powered By Outblaze --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 15:26:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: short poem in the long haul In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Remember Bits, pub in the 90s in Ohio? Not sure if it's still being published. On 11/30/07 3:16 PM, "cralan kelder" wrote: > follow-up on subject of shorter poetry publications, what else is out the= re? >=20 > What i wanted to say about noon is that a lot of dedicated practitioners = of > the form send their work there, as far as I can tell its one of the > preferred destinations at the moment for poems between 1 and 20 lines. > the question is, what other mags are around that work with short poetry? >=20 > i can think of Still from the UK, no longer publishing. > I havent seen Tundra or Hummingbird, but also havent seen announcements o= f > new issues for those mags recently. > =20 > There=B9s Island, also from the UK, going strong, which features many one l= ine > poems. >=20 >=20 > any others? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 15:31:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: A poem from someone who has never been published MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit nice poem let's gret it published for him/her on line at least On Wed, 5 Dec 2007 10:45:17 -0500 Mark Weiss writes: > Aryanil: Unpublished or not, the poet deserves a name. > > What's a professional poet? > > Mark > > > At 08:34 AM 12/5/2007, you wrote: > >I received this poem from a young amateur poet who has never been > published > >anywhere and/or has never sent out any work. I liked the > compostition a > >great lot, especially coming from a never-published young poet - I > thought > >of sharing it with the group. > > > >Aryanil > > > >================== > > > > > >Petersburg Diaries > > > >i. A queen once gifted built symphonies > >to her lovers who tried to fill > >her doorframes and died. Now, queen janes > >buy a hip-flask-full of irony > >under her baroque arch to give > >to a recluse who secretly > >composes anti-symphonies > >to survive a city > >plastic painting over its past. > > > >ii. Japanese tourists are like postcards > > roughly the same size and always > > meeting picturesque expectations. > > This one, assisted by another > >poses prim in the clear light > >of Catherine's window, and a flash > >immortalises a floral print shoulder > >flirting with a Picasso violin > >framed in bronze. > > > >iii. A queen spent her grand passion and hung > >bridges that opened to let tall ships > >go by. Today, Catherine's children > >in red leather jackets haunt the regal rails > >and wait for whoever will pay > >for the foxskin designer coat that will > >look fetching to others only too willing > >to pay for soft white flesh > >with no strings, save a cocky purse. > > > >iv. He brings an orange flower with a long stalk > >and halting English as atonement > >for drunken attention, little knowing that > >her obstinacy about walking out alone > >must not be read as a sign of fidelity > >to an absent man, but to a secret pact > >with two men divided by generations, to live out > >an idea called flanerie that so bewitched one, > >the hashish-smoking Marxist, that he left > >without unlocking the suitcase full of arcades > >to stroll in. > > > >v. Peter the Great, the blonde guide said, > >coerced his subjects to shave. If they > >resisted, he politely invited > >them over and took charge, ridding > >them of offensive masculinity. > >History and anecdote mesh to > >turn great Peter barber immaculate, > >snipping busily away to > >springclean a bristly outpost into a > >smooth, white colonnaded centre, > >crisp stamp-marked authentic Europe. > > > >vi. A cathedral built like > >the Parthenon is a souvenir of > >a chequered history; grand czarist design, > >monumental tribute to a vision > >of splendour. Memories > >of Stalin, however, > >like sharp efficient snakes > >Coil up and down the lavish stone > >columns, flushing the incessant > >rain of wealth down to a dusty > >footsoldiered earth. > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 13:25:35 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve russell Subject: biopics: Baboons/Jane Goodall/Diane Fossey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit A bunch of films have been made about Jane Goodall and Dian Fossey. Of the two, Fossey's life was the more haunting. She studied gorillas in Rwanda. Her life was adapted as the film "Gorillas in the Mist: The Story of Dian Fossey," starring Sigourney Weaver as Fossey. Fossey was found murdered in her cabin in '85, perhaps by poachers, or perhaps by those who saw her as an impediment to the exploitation of gorillas. --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 16:10:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: "Louis Pasteur is born!" (Creeley on biopics) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit yes 2 great ones On Wed, 5 Dec 2007 09:46:33 -0500 "Dr. Barry S. Alpert" writes: > If we’re talking formally-innovative biopics, then let me cite two > which I was lucky enough to witness as in-person screenings: > > “My Dad Is 100 Years Old”, a 17 minute collaboration between > director Guy Maddin and writer/actress Isabella Rossellini (she > plays Fellini, Hitchcock, her mother Ingrid Bergman, Isabella > Rossellini, and speaks the voice of her father Roberto Rossellini > [strictly imaged throughout as a huge tummy]). > > Grizzly Man, by Werner Herzog. At the lectern, the director made an > unexpected case for the auteuristic quality of his subject Timothy > Treadwell’s footage and how it works with (or against) that shot by > his director of photography Peter Zeitlinger. > > > Barry Alpert > _________________________________________________________________ > Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. > http://www.windowslive.com/connect.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_newways_1120 07 > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 16:46:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: "Louis Pasteur is born!" (Creeley on biopics)/no writers Comments: To: steve russell In-Reply-To: 600174.10146.qm@web52403.mail.re2.yahoo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 there are several Kerouac bio pics -- I thankfully have repressed memory of the titles of them On Wed, Dec 5, 2007 03:09 PM, steve russell wrote: > Or the one on Ray Charles, a well done, but predictable Hollywood flic. > >Notice how many biopics are about musicians. Nothing on Pound. Or the Beats. Or >Berryman. Unlike Dylan, these are not household names. Everyone's heard of >Dylan. But Pound? Too damn bad. An Anne Sexton bio could examine the 50s >& probably get a decent audience. > >Christophe Casamassima wrote: Any >opinions on Walk the Line? > > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "steve d. dalachinsky" >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: Re: "Louis Pasteur is born!" (Creeley on >biopics) >> Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 02:34:07 -0500 >> >> >> edward g robinson if i remember played pasteur i got a good education >> from biopix when i was a kid >> great modgliani film new piaf old breska any ken almost any ken >> russell bio film is great >> even amadeus was pretty good madame curie on ansd on as i'm writing >> this the cops are yelling ast someone to get the fk down on the ground >> right outside my window i went out to look indeed he was on the ground >> which brings to mind serpico >> french connection ah i could go on and on >> >> On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 16:01:54 -0800 Stephen Baraban >> writes: >> > I remember reading at least one interview with Robert >> > Creeley in which he pointedly mentioned seeing a movie >> > in which a doctor pronounces the words "Louis Pasteur >> > is born!" I guess this was "The Story of Louis >Pasteur" made in >> > 1936? I didn't see any such film, but they must have >> > set up the situation by having the doctor ask the >> > parents if they have names prepared yet--and the >> > parents would have said something like "yes, Louis if >> > it's a boy, and Catherine if it's a girl". >> > >> > Anyway, Creeley, at the same time as making a wider >> > philosophical point, had isolated the big problem with >> > biographical films--they have a hard time not sticking >> > the protaganist with a tedious fixed character, set >> > from the start. Terrific directors have done poorly in >> > their biopics. I don't like Mike Leigh's film about Gilbert and >> > Sullivan creating "The Mikado" as much as the other >> > films of his I've seen. Roberto Rossellini, according >> > to notes provided at a Museum of Modern Art screening, >> > valued his biographical film about Italian >> > revolutionary Geribaldi, "Viva Italia!", above >> > anything else he ever did, but it's hard for me to >> > appreciate it all that much--it seemed like another >> > fairly pedestrian epic biography with a cast of >> > thousands, like "Ghandi" (though Rossellini found a >> > path to the creation of excellent didactic biographies >> > about people like Pascal and Louis XIV in his final >> > "educational film" period). Francis Ford Coppola's >movie about a maverick car >> > manufacturer, "Tucker: The Man and His Dream"--totally >> > held my interest--Coppola made it wonderfully *festive*. >> > >> > Is Spike Lee's Malcolm movie also one of the unusual >> > ones?--I can't offer an opinion, I've only seen >> > sections of it on TV. >> > >> > Mostly I've experienced biopics as utilitarian >> > constructs from which I could extract a little >> > and some worthwhile information. From >> > biopics I've learned some things about Ghandi, salsero >> > Hector Lavoe, & sex researcher Dr. Kinsey. I'd like to see the >> > flicks Aldon lists; I've missed >> > them. Oh, and "Heart Like a Wheel", about drag racer Shirley >> > Muldowney, for me also transcended the usual deal--or >> > do I (a non driver) have some special thing for movies >> > about cars? --- ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: >> > >> > > examples -- > > Great bio pics that have little to do >with their >> > > subjects: >> > > > Lady Sings the Blues >> > > The Barretts of Wimpole Street >> > > > This year's worst bio pic: >> > > > Talk to Me >> > > > > Some actually good bio pics, actually about their >> > > subjects: >> > > > Coal Miner's Daughter >> > > A Mighty Heart (despite the fact that the title >> > > sounds like one of Christopher >> > > Guest's parodies) >> > > Hoffa >> > > > >> > >> <> >> > >> > > > We are enslaved by >> > > what makes us free -- intolerable >> > > paradox at the heart of speech. >> > > --Robert Kelly >> > > > Sailing the blogosphere at: >> > > http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ >> > > > Aldon L. Nielsen >> > > Kelly Professor of American Literature >> > > The Pennsylvania State University >> > > 116 Burrowes >> > > University Park, PA 16802-6200 >> > > > (814) 865-0091 >> > > >> _________________________________________________________________________ >> ___________ >> > Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your >homepage. >> > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > >> > > >= >Massage Therapy Training >Train for a career in massage therapy at these schools near you. Request info >to learn more. >http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick?redirectid=eaad84afcb41292ad123501169cfb62d > > >-- >Powered By Outblaze > > > >--------------------------------- >Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We are enslaved by what makes us free -- intolerable paradox at the heart of speech. --Robert Kelly Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 14:20:01 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andy Gricevich Subject: more on Haynes/"I'm Not There" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Well, this discussion is certainly less important than Will Alexander's illness or the idiotic idea that the U.S. interventions in the Middle East (which involve habitual placings of pro-democratic Muslim feminists on terrorist blacklists) do anything to help women anywhere--but here goes, anyway. I think Aldon's probably right in saying that the film would be better if you didn't know Dylan was a real person--or at least the reasons I think the film is genuinely good have little to do with his existence (though I admit that, as a fan, the Dylanisms are fun for me). At the very least, the question "what is/could/should be the relation of art to politics" comes up over and over in the film--a question I don't think films with this kind of distribution tend to ask, and--in fact--one which is even met with derisive dismissals in the worlds of avant-garde poetry and music. Some possible answers are offered, none settled upon. I see Dylan's own dismissals of the issue in the mid-60's as a strategic "leave me alone" gesture, and I kind of think he's right (though a jerk... though at times a very funny jerk): why should anyone demand answers from a pop star? In any case, the film doesn't take Dylan's answer as its own; nor does it show it as one that benefited him as an artist. After all, the chronologically latest performance we see by one of the Dylans is the one of Christian Bale singing the truly dreadful "Pressing On" in that depressing Southern California born-again church (Eric, that's the church I meant in an earlier post). And near the end the "Arthur Rimbaud" character, in his list of "principles for living in hiding," advises the aspiring quietist to "never create anything" (if you know about Rimbaud, you know about his unsavory colonialist job after his withdrawal from aesthetic and political engagement). I don't think the film takes the stance of many critics, who consider Dylan eternally brilliant (or am I just "reading into it," as someone who thinks that "Modern Times" is largely dull, sexist, formulaic, and occasionally pretty good, but by no means a work of "genius"?). I think the film offers some possibilities for the expansion of scale in art--how much of the world can it include, and how? (Or, better--and differently--how can one make the work open onto the world in new, more generous ways, vulnerable to its answering back to the work?) Haynes sets up his multiple narratives so that they suggest perspectives on each other. References to the world "going on outside the film" are often small, casual, dropped and left in scenes--or big and loud, but in the background (the war on TV, with its televised nature emphasized, or LBJ's face quoting Dylan while the artist himself blathers belligerently in the foreground). They don't get picked up explicitly, but work as hints for the viewing of other narratives, or other parts of the same narrative. Haynes' study of semiotics is evident in the way the categories of character and time relate to one another. By the last third of the film, the various "Dylans" have diverged from one another in character, mode of presentation, and comparative distance from the "real" biography to a great extent, seeming less and less like portraits of the various "sides" of one person, taking on an independence (the film is very sneaky in the way it gradually becomes quite strange and disorienting). Accompanying this increasing divergence is an increasing frequency of "shared memories" between the characters; in one of my favorites, Gere's Billy the Kid (the farthest from a possibly actual Dylan), gazing at the Missouri mountains, has a flashback to the Vietnam war--but it's the war on TV, as seen in the Heath Ledger (the actor character whose career was founded on a portrayal of the early '60s "Dylan") sections. When we switch back to the hills, what was a gorgeous, naturalistically filmed shot is now on video, "infected" by the TV. This is, of course, a psychological representation of the after-effects of the memory on the present. But it's also a memory of a past (the time of the marriage) into which the outside (the war) was leaking constantly, even as the central character tried to avoid acknowledging it--shown as utterly tied up with neglect of the love affair and friendship. And it's a leaking-in of the film manipulations that characterize the Christian Bale and Heath Ledger sequences (and the variation in technique between all the stories) into the spectacular naturalism of the Billy the Kid world (which was untouched when it first appeared in the literal kid-world of Marcus Carl Franklin's "Woody"). Narratively, this particular constellation of examples sets up the incursion (leak) of the interstate system into the town of Riddle, and Billy's decision to speak up about it. As part of an accumulation of various such moves, it has a more wide-ranging formal effect: the stories become porous with regard to one another, and that porosity eventually reaches a threshold after which, for me at least, they open not only onto one another, but onto the outsides of the film. By the "Billy the Kid" section, I find myself unable to view the movie without constant reference to social and political contexts outside the film. The section is set in an ambiguous time: lines from other scenes contextualize it as the late 19th century (Billy in hiding), or as any time between 1966 and the present (Dylan in hiding). The scene itself looks like the Old West, but the interstate highway system is being constructed, and its planners show up in old cars that were new in the 1970s. The anachronisms throw me outside the narrative, where I'm prepared to go already because of the porosity I just described. So, when Billy is put in jail for speaking out (nervously, as an "ordinary guy," not as the famous outlaw) against the interstate plan that will destroy the town, I can't help but think, "oh, criminalization of speech, the possibility of arbitrary arrest in the face of profit-driven enterprise in a time of war. That sounds kind of familiar." That Billy is the least identifiable as Dylan, both as a character and as someone who sticks his neck out at risk of his life, contributes to a close to the film that belies the view of it as a tribute. None of the individual techniques are new (diverging narrative possibilities, contradictory characterizations (though Haynes gets more from Genet here than anyone else, which I appreciate), film manipulations). So why do I care about the way they're deployed as a whole? As a poet, I've been trying to think of what can be done to further open a work to as much of the world as possible (specifically, for me, as regards political content). I see a history of ways of answering this question that includes Dante, the 19th century novel (particularly Russian), Pound and Joyce as earlier exemplars. If "taking it all in" and "opening up to it" are alternatives, I'd put all these folks in the former camp. For Pound, it's done by juxtaposition, variation of materials and the variation of the rate of that variation, the making of an unstable archive--what I'll call the "hodgepodge." Joyce, at least in "Ulysses," takes a "layering" approach instead, where each event has strata of symbolic and historical meaning underneath (poking through sometimes), or floating above it. When we get to writing like Ron Silliman's book-length poems, there's, I'd argue, a more equal emphasis on "taking in" and "opening out." The inclusion of as much as possible by parataxis is performed via formal means that, with extended immersion in the work, foreground the reader's own process of making connections, synthesizing disparate phenomena into daily, more-or-less unified experience. The effect of reading it (at least on me) is one of a residual dehabituating of perception, letting a lot more in, noting a greater variety of connections. What all these works have in common is the fact that, in them, the process of an increase in capacity requires a "gesture of expansion," an explicit widening of scope that has to last for as long as the capacity remains that large. This gesture might be the increasing number of sentences via the Fibonacci sequence, or the intrusion of a language alien to a main story, or a chapter in a novel that takes a panoramic view of a society. I think these are all marvelous, and have their limits (in the novel, for instance, the "big picture" recedes into the background once the narrative returns to the story of the individualized characters; in Silliman, the scale remains larger, but is still contained within the limits of a linguistically modeled "consciousness"). Put very formalistically, what "I'm Not There" offers is a mode in which a tenuous whole opens onto the world as an effect of the way the individual, coherent continuities that make it up change one another's scale of reference by making gestures that are "gestures of expansion" not within themselves, but when seen from the perspective of the others. A small event in one continuity has an "expanding" effect on another continuity. I don't see the film as an end-point. I'd like to see more explicitly political movies that extend these possibilities. And I want to find a way of writing political poetry that works with juxtaposition on the micro-level while also employing larger blocks, continuities whose own juxtaposition is fruitful due to their "leaks." Haynes' movie (which in a lot of other ways isn't as good as, say, "Safe") gives me a lot to think about in this regard. Sorry this was so long. I'll reply directly to David's reply to me in another post. Oh, and Steve--you're right, "one of the best films I've ever seen" is a mouthful, from my big mouth. But since you asked what my favorites are, and since lists are fun to make, here are some off the top of my head: Safe & Poison (Todd Haynes) Medea, Salo, Teorema (Pasolini) In A Year With 13 Moons, Effe Briest (Fassbinder) Kristina Talking Pictures, Journeys From Berlin (Yvonne Rainer) Week-end, Forever Mozart, Numero Deux (Godard) The Wife (Tom Noonan) My Dinner With Andre, Vanya on 42nd St (Louis Malle) Ginger and Fred (Fellini) The Lady From Shanghai (Welles) City Lights (Chaplin) various films by Moshen Mahkmalbaf (sp) recently, Paul Chan's "baghdad in no particular order" The Muppet Movie and, though they belong in an entirely different category, Brakhage's "Cannot Exist," "Cannot Not Exist," and the Dante films cheers, Andy ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 14:28:28 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve russell Subject: Zappa/The Mother's of Invention make fun of Dylan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit There's an album where Zappa makes fun of Dylan's harmonica playing, a cheap shot, but hilarious. Does anyone remember it? & speaking of Zappa, he'd make an excellent subject for a biopic. --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 15:26:03 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Break the chain - Haaretz // re checking sources of online mass disinformation; very good article In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline The exposure once again of the American government and media screaming for War with a country without WMD as so vehemently and viciously claimed, is a very hopeful event in public language, among so many other ways. The use of actual sources based in fact to contradict the storms of faked sources, lies, disinformation, distorted and manipulated "beliefs" cited as "reasons" for fear, hatred and death is. if even for one day, one is tempted to say, a joy to behold. Concerned with the life and death aspects of words, with writing and reading as mobilizations----one takes hope, though without illusions Yet even so: "If the situation is so bright, then why does this bogus message, which has been circulating in varied e-mail forms since April of this year, refuse to die? The problem with such whipped-up indignation is that the e-mail is based on falsehood," as Esther Solomon writes in her excellent and much needed article "Break the Chain" in todays online issue of Haaretz: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/929661.html --- The article concerns the forwarded chain letter "Holocaust Ban in UK Schools", I wrote on Poetics of receiving two days ago, via Facebook, from a friend who had received it from Leevi Lehto. After the letter had been mass forwarded, someone pointed out its known falsity. My friend sent this information with a link http://www.hoax-slayer.com/uk-holocaust-removal.shtml and included a letter from Leevi: Forwarding from Leevi Lehto: For another, more comprehensive report of the background, check: http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/holocaust.asp Well, while the first link seems to be wrong (and misguided) in claiming that there's NO truth in the chain letter, this does not change the fact that it's a hoax. I should have thought twice to NOT forward it - the more so because I share the general concern expressed in the letter. - Leevi I wrote back the following reply, which I feel applies here also-- I don't think "hoax" is the right word to use when lies are disseminated in order to manipulate and exacerbate hatred and war, the threats of war. One has to examine the sources from which a great many messages these days originate, for very often they turn out to be suspect, in both content and design, intent. Just because one may support some part of a message does not justify the use of smears, falsehoods and propaganda in the name of historical truths. The American Invasion of Iraq was justified by citing as "hard evidence" "information" known to be forged ("the Italian Letter"'s "sixteen words") and from an informant ("Curveball") who was known to be deliberately lying. Millions die because of such "hoaxes" which are known by the perpetrators to be lies. It's really i can't repeat it enough, important to doublecheck sources, masked intentions, whether or not one agrees with some part of the message. -this is meant for Leevi----but truly i feel very strongly one needs to check sources before sending on things--so much "information" can turn out to be "disinformation" and it is extremely dangerous--throughout history disinformation has been turned into propaganda and in turn into wars--) In the Haaretz article Esther Solomon writes: No less interesting, though, is why chain e-mails like these garner such traction, especially as the Internet facilitates such easy confirmation - or repudiation - of all kinds of spurious "facts." The answer lies in the role of the Web and of e-mail in particular in popular culture. In an era of lethargy and of disillusionment with conventional politics, but also at a time in which the unknown individual can magnify his voice virally many thousands of times through e-mail, the idea of alternative activism at the touch of a button is clearly appealing. For those with ideological agendas, e-mail is a perfect weapon. It offers anonymity, speedy and effortless diffusion, the difficulty of a wholesale refutation - rebuttals never enjoy the same reach as the original allegation - and the networked power of distribution (and complicit endorsement) through one's peers. But before forwarding a chain e-mail, out of an indefinite sense of righteous indignation, resist the herd instinct. Consider whether you yourself really stand behind the facts and sentiments expressed in it, or whether you are allowing yourself to be cynically manipulated into feeling a fleeting sense of purpose and participation that overrides your better judgment. As a talkback on the HET Web site put it, "save the mobilization for real causes." I'm thankful to Esther Solomon for these reminders to "save the mobilization for real causes," a mobilization that exists in and by the attention and care one brings to language itself. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 18:31:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kyle Schlesinger Subject: Re: Zappa/The Mother's of Invention make fun of Dylan In-Reply-To: <231167.87329.qm@web52404.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi Steve, You might be thinking of "Flakes" on Sheik Yerbouti (1979). Adrian Belew does the Dylan voice. Thanks to Ben Watson's terrific Frank Zappa: The Negative Dialectics of Poodle Play for jump-starting my memory. Cheers, Kyle www.kyleschlesinger.com www.cuneiformpress.com www.cuneiformpress.blogspot.com > From: steve russell > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 14:28:28 -0800 > To: > Subject: Zappa/The Mother's of Invention make fun of Dylan > > There's an album where Zappa makes fun of Dylan's harmonica playing, a cheap > shot, but hilarious. Does anyone remember it? & speaking of Zappa, he'd make > an excellent subject for a biopic. > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it > now. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 18:52:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: Zappa/The Mother's of Invention make fun of Dylan In-Reply-To: <231167.87329.qm@web52404.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Flakes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4A8GIhCOMzA On 5 Dec 2007 at 14:28, steve russell wrote: > There's an album where Zappa makes fun of Dylan's harmonica playing, > a cheap shot, but hilarious. Does anyone remember it? & speaking of > Zappa, he'd make an excellent subject for a biopic. > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. > Try it now. > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.14/1172 - Release Date: > 12/5/2007 8:41 AM > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:08:10 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Re: Zappa/The Mother's of Invention make fun of Dylan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I spoke rently to Jimmy Carl Black who told me there's a kind of biopic in the works. Gerald Schwartz > There's an album where Zappa makes fun of Dylan's harmonica playing, a > cheap shot, but hilarious. Does anyone remember it? & speaking of Zappa, > he'd make an excellent subject for a biopic. > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it > now. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:12:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Re: "Louis Pasteur is born!" (Creeley on biopics)/no writers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I first ( at age 8) heard of Pound from the Dylan tune. Went and looked him up. Read all about him. Still do. Once in a while I still listen to B.D. Gerald Schwartz > Or the one on Ray Charles, a well done, but predictable Hollywood flic. > > Notice how many biopics are about musicians. Nothing on Pound. Or the > Beats. Or Berryman. Unlike Dylan, these are not household names. > Everyone's heard of Dylan. But Pound? Too damn bad. An Anne Sexton bio > could examine the 50s & probably get a decent audience. > > Christophe Casamassima wrote: Any > opinions on Walk the Line? > > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "steve d. dalachinsky" >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: Re: "Louis Pasteur is born!" (Creeley on biopics) >> Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 02:34:07 -0500 >> >> >> edward g robinson if i remember played pasteur i got a good education >> from biopix when i was a kid >> great modgliani film new piaf old breska any ken almost any ken >> russell bio film is great >> even amadeus was pretty good madame curie on ansd on as i'm writing >> this the cops are yelling ast someone to get the fk down on the ground >> right outside my window i went out to look indeed he was on the ground >> which brings to mind serpico >> french connection ah i could go on and on >> >> On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 16:01:54 -0800 Stephen Baraban >> writes: >> > I remember reading at least one interview with Robert >> > Creeley in which he pointedly mentioned seeing a movie >> > in which a doctor pronounces the words "Louis Pasteur >> > is born!" I guess this was "The Story of Louis Pasteur" made in >> > 1936? I didn't see any such film, but they must have >> > set up the situation by having the doctor ask the >> > parents if they have names prepared yet--and the >> > parents would have said something like "yes, Louis if >> > it's a boy, and Catherine if it's a girl". >> > >> > Anyway, Creeley, at the same time as making a wider >> > philosophical point, had isolated the big problem with >> > biographical films--they have a hard time not sticking >> > the protaganist with a tedious fixed character, set >> > from the start. Terrific directors have done poorly in >> > their biopics. I don't like Mike Leigh's film about Gilbert and >> > Sullivan creating "The Mikado" as much as the other >> > films of his I've seen. Roberto Rossellini, according >> > to notes provided at a Museum of Modern Art screening, >> > valued his biographical film about Italian >> > revolutionary Geribaldi, "Viva Italia!", above >> > anything else he ever did, but it's hard for me to >> > appreciate it all that much--it seemed like another >> > fairly pedestrian epic biography with a cast of >> > thousands, like "Ghandi" (though Rossellini found a >> > path to the creation of excellent didactic biographies >> > about people like Pascal and Louis XIV in his final >> > "educational film" period). Francis Ford Coppola's movie about a >> > maverick car >> > manufacturer, "Tucker: The Man and His Dream"--totally >> > held my interest--Coppola made it wonderfully *festive*. >> > >> > Is Spike Lee's Malcolm movie also one of the unusual >> > ones?--I can't offer an opinion, I've only seen >> > sections of it on TV. >> > >> > Mostly I've experienced biopics as utilitarian >> > constructs from which I could extract a little >> > and some worthwhile information. From >> > biopics I've learned some things about Ghandi, salsero >> > Hector Lavoe, & sex researcher Dr. Kinsey. I'd like to see the >> > flicks Aldon lists; I've missed >> > them. Oh, and "Heart Like a Wheel", about drag racer Shirley >> > Muldowney, for me also transcended the usual deal--or >> > do I (a non driver) have some special thing for movies >> > about cars? --- ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: >> > >> > > examples -- > > Great bio pics that have little to do with their >> > > subjects: >> > > > Lady Sings the Blues >> > > The Barretts of Wimpole Street >> > > > This year's worst bio pic: >> > > > Talk to Me >> > > > > Some actually good bio pics, actually about their >> > > subjects: >> > > > Coal Miner's Daughter >> > > A Mighty Heart (despite the fact that the title >> > > sounds like one of Christopher >> > > Guest's parodies) >> > > Hoffa >> > > > >> > >> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> > > > We are enslaved by >> > > what makes us free -- intolerable >> > > paradox at the heart of speech. >> > > --Robert Kelly >> > > > Sailing the blogosphere at: >> > > http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ >> > > > Aldon L. Nielsen >> > > Kelly Professor of American Literature >> > > The Pennsylvania State University >> > > 116 Burrowes >> > > University Park, PA 16802-6200 >> > > > (814) 865-0091 >> > > >> _________________________________________________________________________ >> ___________ >> > Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your >> > homepage. >> > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > >> > > > = > Massage Therapy Training > Train for a career in massage therapy at these schools near you. Request > info to learn more. > http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick?redirectid=eaad84afcb41292ad123501169cfb62d > > > -- > Powered By Outblaze > > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it > now. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:22:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Zappa/The Mother's of Invention make fun of Dylan In-Reply-To: <231167.87329.qm@web52404.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit met zappa after a concert in MD & he took my friend & me around, introduced us to the other guys, was gracious & sweet, even quiet. On 12/5/07 5:28 PM, "steve russell" wrote: > There's an album where Zappa makes fun of Dylan's harmonica playing, a cheap > shot, but hilarious. Does anyone remember it? & speaking of Zappa, he'd make > an excellent subject for a biopic. > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it > now. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 20:06:12 -0500 Reply-To: az421@freenet.carleton.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: rob's first novel Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT my first little novel, white, is now part of the world; info here; http://www.themercurypress.ca/?q=books/white edmonton launch was last night; ottawa launch next week; alberta rob -- poet/editor/publisher ...STANZAS mag, above/ground press & Chaudiere Books (www.chaudierebooks.com) ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...13th poetry coll'n - The Ottawa City Project .... 2007-8 writer in residence, U of Alberta * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 20:46:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Stefans Subject: Brian Kim Stefans and Eric Baus, Thursday (tomorrow) in NYC, 7 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just in case my last announcement was unclear, offensive, or just plain weird, I'm resending an invite to this reading TOMORROW (Thursday). I'll be reading a new longish piece called "Harold and Sonia," based on the life and writings of H.P. Lovecraft. which is better than it sounds, along with some short poems. Eric is someone whose poetry I've enjoyed for some time now -- a sort of Cornell-esque visionary in miniatures -- magical realism that gets under your odor-eaters. Despite a vow of not-weirdness (you can see the original invite here: http://www.arras.net/fscIII/), you have to see this photograph of Eric Baus rolling around in a bathtub of canned bake beans: http://static.rateyourmusic.com/album_images/s4658.jpg Eric and I have read together in the past and make a good sweet and sour combo -- so you should come! If only to say hello! And there's food. And I won't be reading in New York again for 27 YEARS (or until Bush is out of office, is decomposing in the ground, is a forgotten nightmare on the winds of fame and farts -- whichever comes first). Oh, and there's food. Thursday, December 6th 7pm FREE Teachers & Writers Collaborative 520 8th Ave, Suite 2020 A,C,E, to Penn Station wine, cheese reception to follow Brian Kim Stefans' recent books of poetry are Kluge: A Meditation (Roof Books) and What Is Said to the Poet Concerning Flowers (Factory School). A book of interviews and criticism, Before Starting Over, was published by Salt Book in 2006. He teaches new media studies at the Richard Stockton College of New Jersey and lives in Philadelphia, PA. Eric Baus is the author of The To Sound (Wave Books), Tuned Droves (Octopus Books, forthcoming), and several chapbooks. He is a contributing editor for PENNsound and publishes Minus House chapbooks. He lives in Denver. Mobile Libris will be selling books. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 18:01:38 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve russell Subject: Re: Break the chain - Haaretz // re checking sources of online mass disinformation; very good article In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit There's so much cancerous, ugly info out there. Thanks for Esther Solomon's Haaretz article. David Chirot wrote: The exposure once again of the American government and media screaming for War with a country without WMD as so vehemently and viciously claimed, is a very hopeful event in public language, among so many other ways. The use of actual sources based in fact to contradict the storms of faked sources, lies, disinformation, distorted and manipulated "beliefs" cited as "reasons" for fear, hatred and death is. if even for one day, one is tempted to say, a joy to behold. Concerned with the life and death aspects of words, with writing and reading as mobilizations----one takes hope, though without illusions Yet even so: "If the situation is so bright, then why does this bogus message, which has been circulating in varied e-mail forms since April of this year, refuse to die? The problem with such whipped-up indignation is that the e-mail is based on falsehood," as Esther Solomon writes in her excellent and much needed article "Break the Chain" in todays online issue of Haaretz: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/929661.html --- The article concerns the forwarded chain letter "Holocaust Ban in UK Schools", I wrote on Poetics of receiving two days ago, via Facebook, from a friend who had received it from Leevi Lehto. After the letter had been mass forwarded, someone pointed out its known falsity. My friend sent this information with a link http://www.hoax-slayer.com/uk-holocaust-removal.shtml and included a letter from Leevi: Forwarding from Leevi Lehto: For another, more comprehensive report of the background, check: http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/holocaust.asp Well, while the first link seems to be wrong (and misguided) in claiming that there's NO truth in the chain letter, this does not change the fact that it's a hoax. I should have thought twice to NOT forward it - the more so because I share the general concern expressed in the letter. - Leevi I wrote back the following reply, which I feel applies here also-- I don't think "hoax" is the right word to use when lies are disseminated in order to manipulate and exacerbate hatred and war, the threats of war. One has to examine the sources from which a great many messages these days originate, for very often they turn out to be suspect, in both content and design, intent. Just because one may support some part of a message does not justify the use of smears, falsehoods and propaganda in the name of historical truths. The American Invasion of Iraq was justified by citing as "hard evidence" "information" known to be forged ("the Italian Letter"'s "sixteen words") and from an informant ("Curveball") who was known to be deliberately lying. Millions die because of such "hoaxes" which are known by the perpetrators to be lies. It's really i can't repeat it enough, important to doublecheck sources, masked intentions, whether or not one agrees with some part of the message. -this is meant for Leevi----but truly i feel very strongly one needs to check sources before sending on things--so much "information" can turn out to be "disinformation" and it is extremely dangerous--throughout history disinformation has been turned into propaganda and in turn into wars--) In the Haaretz article No less interesting, though, is why chain e-mails like these garner such traction, especially as the Internet facilitates such easy confirmation - or repudiation - of all kinds of spurious "facts." The answer lies in the role of the Web and of e-mail in particular in popular culture. In an era of lethargy and of disillusionment with conventional politics, but also at a time in which the unknown individual can magnify his voice virally many thousands of times through e-mail, the idea of alternative activism at the touch of a button is clearly appealing. For those with ideological agendas, e-mail is a perfect weapon. It offers anonymity, speedy and effortless diffusion, the difficulty of a wholesale refutation - rebuttals never enjoy the same reach as the original allegation - and the networked power of distribution (and complicit endorsement) through one's peers. But before forwarding a chain e-mail, out of an indefinite sense of righteous indignation, resist the herd instinct. Consider whether you yourself really stand behind the facts and sentiments expressed in it, or whether you are allowing yourself to be cynically manipulated into feeling a fleeting sense of purpose and participation that overrides your better judgment. As a talkback on the HET Web site put it, "save the mobilization for real causes." I'm thankful to Esther Solomon for these reminders to "save the mobilization for real causes," a mobilization that exists in and by the attention and care one brings to language itself. --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 06:34:31 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Invalid RFC822 field - "I was surprised and pleased w=". Rest of header flushed. From: Barry Schwabsky Subject: Re: Zappa/The Mother's of Invention make fun of Dylan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There should be biopic of Jimmy Carl Black!=0AI was surprised and pleased w= hen he popped up on an album by the UK band Ella Guru a couple of years ago= .=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Gerald Schwartz =0ATo: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=0ASent: Thursday, 6 December, 2= 007 12:08:10 AM=0ASubject: Re: Zappa/The Mother's of Invention make fun of = Dylan=0A=0AI spoke rently to Jimmy Carl Black who=0Atold me there's a kind = of biopic in the works.=0A=0AGerald Schwartz=0A=0A> There's an album where = Zappa makes fun of Dylan's harmonica playing, a =0A> cheap shot, but hilari= ous. Does anyone remember it? & speaking of Zappa, =0A> he'd make an excell= ent subject for a biopic.=0A>=0A>=0A> ---------------------------------=0A>= Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try i= t =0A> now. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 01:35:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: in memory of MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed cancer-avatar -bleb-blemish-blight-benign-tumor-blast-blight-callosity-callus-petechia -up-damage-defile-excruciate-anguish-aposteme-barb-the-dart-bark-asthma -ulcer-turgescency-turgidity-sarcoma-aggrieve-agonize-rupture-savage-scab -ulceration-violate-wale-welt-wheal-whelk-offend-pimple-pinch-play-havoc -pierce-piles-burn-canker-canker-sore-carbuncle-chafe-chancre-chancroid -the-rising-put-to-torture-rack-rankle-rasp-rend-rent-rip-spot-stroke-knife -evil-do-dyspepsia-dyspnea-edema-emaciation-excrescence-fainting-hurt -with-play-hob-with-tweak-twist-twist-the-wasting-wen-wounds-immedicable -gripe-neoplasm-nevus-nip-scrape-sarcoma-outrage-pain-pang-papula-papule -chancre-furuncle-furunculus-gall-gash-gathering-get-into-wring-wrong-grind -sore-spasm-life-bewitch-bite-cachexy-swelling-swollenness-tabes-soft -injure-shock-skin-eruption-blood-pressure-shock-skin-slash-slit-sneezing -pressure-icterus-indigestion-insomnia-incision-infect-inflame-inflict-pain -seizure-tumor-cachexia-pollute-polyp-prejudice-prick-prolong-the-agony -offense-scuff-upset-stomach-third-degree-burn-sclerosis-sebaceous-cyst -grieve-tumefaction-tumescence-tumidity-turgescence-tubercle-fatigue-fever -craze-spot-spasm-callus-cancer-carbuncle-carcinoma-chill-chills-colic -cyanosis-cyst-diarrhea-convulse-corrupt-intumescence-crackle-cramp -chip-claw-cold-sore-concussion-condemn-constipation-smut-tumor-coughing -affront-injury-irritate-intumescence-itching-jaundice-labored-breathing -give-pain-give-umbrage-gnaw-grate-grief-fester-festering-vertigo-vomiting -sore-sore-tumor-stigma-sting-strain-stress-stress-of-havoc-on-wrench -scald-scathe-scorch-scotch-neoplasm-nevus-verruca-wart-wen-worm-scratch -metastatic-tumor-mildew-mold-jinx-deprave-despoil-mole-morbid-growth -mistreat-molest-mortal-wound-mutilate-chilblain-blow-mole-morbid-growth -martyrize-maul-menace-marasmus-melanoma-metastatic-bunion-malignant-growth -lumbago-pustule-protuberance-proud-flesh-pruritus-pustule-rash-wound-stick -tachycardia-sty-suffering-suppuration-swelling-taint-tear-tender-swell -wreak-sprain-stab-stab-inflammation-ill-do-wrong-do-wrong-by-dolor-doom -ague-anemia-ankylosis-anoxia-apnea-asphyxiation-dropsy-backache-benign -hemorrhoids-hex-hurt-convulsion-corn-feelings-impair-incise-hypotension -paronychia-nonmalignant-maltreat-proud-flesh-rot-rust-parulis-passion -do-verruca-threaten-throes-torment-torture-trauma-traumatize-pock-poison -bump-trouble-give-dysentery-disadvantage-disserve-distress-do-a-mischief -lump-bloody-blow-boil-break-whitlow-wart-canker-carcinoma-blennorhea-boil -kibe-kill-by-inches-lacerate-laceration-lesion-maim-low-blood-rheum -tumor-bleeding-bed-sore-befoul-bruise-bubo-bulla-blain-callosity-blister -growth-make-mincemeat-of-mutilation-nasty-martyr-envenom-eschar-tumor -rust-must-check-crack-nasal-discharge-nausea-necrosis-malignancy-malignant -abscess-abuse-ache-aching-afflict-rising-rub-run-abscess-moth-moth-and -frazzle-destroy-dilatation-dilation-distension-dizziness-abrade-abrasion -flux-fungosity-fungus-furuncle-felon-outgrowth-pest-fret-ataxia-atrophy -excrescence-outgrowth-pain-paralysis-pimple-pock-nonmalignant-fibrillation -curse-corn-cyst-dry-rot-puncture-fungosity-fungus-growth-cut-cut-persecute -harass-harm-growth-hemorrhage-high-ail-hydrops-hypertension-harrow-crucify -second-degree-burn-fever-blister-fistula-flash-burn-fracture-fray-gumboil -bunion- http://www.alansondheim.org/sicknessofavatar.gif in-memory-of- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 06:35:10 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barry Schwabsky Subject: Re: "Louis Pasteur is born!" (Creeley on biopics)/no writers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Origina= And I first heard of Edgar Varese from a Zappa album.=0A=0A=0A----- Origina= l Message ----=0AFrom: Gerald Schwartz =0ATo: POETI= CS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=0ASent: Thursday, 6 December, 2007 12:12:26 AM=0ASu= bject: Re: "Louis Pasteur is born!" (Creeley on biopics)/no writers=0A=0AI = first ( at age 8) heard of Pound=0Afrom the Dylan tune. Went and looked=0Ah= im up. Read all about him. Still do.=0AOnce in a while I still listen to B.= D.=0A=0AGerald Schwartz=0A=0A> Or the one on Ray Charles, a well done, but = predictable Hollywood flic.=0A>=0A> Notice how many biopics are about music= ians. Nothing on Pound. Or the =0A> Beats. Or Berryman. Unlike Dylan, these= are not household names. =0A> Everyone's heard of Dylan. But Pound? Too d= amn bad. An Anne Sexton bio =0A> could examine the 50s & probably get a dec= ent audience.=0A>=0A> Christophe Casamassima wrote: Any =0A> opinions on Walk the Line?=0A>=0A>=0A>> ----- Origin= al Message -----=0A>> From: "steve d. dalachinsky"=0A>> To: POETICS@LISTSER= V.BUFFALO.EDU=0A>> Subject: Re: "Louis Pasteur is born!" (Creeley on biopic= s)=0A>> Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 02:34:07 -0500=0A>>=0A>>=0A>> edward g= robinson if i remember played pasteur i got a good education=0A>> from bi= opix when i was a kid=0A>> great modgliani film new piaf old breska any = ken almost any ken=0A>> russell bio film is great=0A>> even amadeus was pre= tty good madame curie on ansd on as i'm writing=0A>> this the cops are yel= ling ast someone to get the fk down on the ground=0A>> right outside my win= dow i went out to look indeed he was on the ground=0A>> which brings to min= d serpico=0A>> french connection ah i could go on and on=0A>>=0A>> On Tue,= 4 Dec 2007 16:01:54 -0800 Stephen Baraban=0A>> writes:=0A>> > I remember = reading at least one interview with Robert=0A>> > Creeley in which he point= edly mentioned seeing a movie=0A>> > in which a doctor pronounces the words= "Louis Pasteur=0A>> > is born!" I guess this was "The Story of Louis Past= eur" made in=0A>> > 1936? I didn't see any such film, but they must have=0A= >> > set up the situation by having the doctor ask the=0A>> > parents if th= ey have names prepared yet--and the=0A>> > parents would have said somethin= g like "yes, Louis if=0A>> > it's a boy, and Catherine if it's a girl".=0A>= > >=0A>> > Anyway, Creeley, at the same time as making a wider=0A>> > philo= sophical point, had isolated the big problem with=0A>> > biographical films= --they have a hard time not sticking=0A>> > the protaganist with a tedious = fixed character, set=0A>> > from the start. Terrific directors have do= ne poorly in=0A>> > their biopics. I don't like Mike Leigh's film about Gil= bert and=0A>> > Sullivan creating "The Mikado" as much as the other=0A>> > = films of his I've seen. Roberto Rossellini, according=0A>> > to notes provi= ded at a Museum of Modern Art screening,=0A>> > valued his biographical fil= m about Italian=0A>> > revolutionary Geribaldi, "Viva Italia!", above=0A>> = > anything else he ever did, but it's hard for me to=0A>> > appreciate it a= ll that much--it seemed like another=0A>> > fairly pedestrian epic biograph= y with a cast of=0A>> > thousands, like "Ghandi" (though Rossellini found a= =0A>> > path to the creation of excellent didactic biographies=0A>> > about= people like Pascal and Louis XIV in his final=0A>> > "educational film" pe= riod). Francis Ford Coppola's movie about a =0A>> > maverick car=0A>> > man= ufacturer, "Tucker: The Man and His Dream"--totally=0A>> > held my interest= --Coppola made it wonderfully *festive*.=0A>> >=0A>> > Is Spike Lee's Malco= lm movie also one of the unusual=0A>> > ones?--I can't offer an opinion, I'= ve only seen=0A>> > sections of it on TV.=0A>> >=0A>> > Mostly I've experie= nced biopics as utilitarian=0A>> > constructs from which I could extract a = little=0A>> > and some worthwhile information. From=0A>> > biopics I've l= earned some things about Ghandi, salsero=0A>> > Hector Lavoe, & sex researc= her Dr. Kinsey. I'd like to see the=0A>> > flicks Aldon lists; I've missed= =0A>> > them. Oh, and "Heart Like a Wheel", about drag racer Shirley=0A>> >= Muldowney, for me also transcended the usual deal--or=0A>> > do I (a non d= river) have some special thing for movies=0A>> > about cars? --- ALDON L N= IELSEN wrote:=0A>> >=0A>> > > examples -- > > Great bio pics that have li= ttle to do with their=0A>> > > subjects:=0A>> > > > Lady Sings the Blues= =0A>> > > The Barretts of Wimpole Street=0A>> > > > This year's worst bio = pic:=0A>> > > > Talk to Me=0A>> > > > > Some actually good bio pics, act= ually about their=0A>> > > subjects:=0A>> > > > Coal Miner's Daughter=0A>>= > > A Mighty Heart (despite the fact that the title=0A>> > > sounds like o= ne of Christopher=0A>> > > Guest's parodies)=0A>> > > Hoffa=0A>> > > >=0A>>= >=0A>> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>= >>>>>>=0A>> >>=0A>> > > > We are enslaved by=0A>> > > what makes us free --= intolerable=0A>> > > paradox at the heart of speech.=0A>> > > --Robert Kel= ly=0A>> > > > Sailing the blogosphere at:=0A>> > > http://heatstrings.blogs= pot.com/=0A>> > > > Aldon L. Nielsen=0A>> > > Kelly Professor of American L= iterature=0A>> > > The Pennsylvania State University=0A>> > > 116 Burrowes= =0A>> > > University Park, PA 16802-6200=0A>> > > > (814) 865-0091=0A>> > >= =0A>> _____________________________________________________________________= ____=0A>> ___________=0A>> > Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. = Make Yahoo! your =0A>> > homepage.=0A>> > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs=0A>=0A>= >=0A>=0A>=0A> =3D=0A> Massage Therapy Training=0A> Train for a career in ma= ssage therapy at these schools near you. Request =0A> info to learn more.= =0A> http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick?redirectid=3Deaad84afcb41292a= d123501169cfb62d=0A>=0A>=0A> -- =0A> Powered By Outblaze=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> --= -------------------------------=0A> Be a better friend, newshound, and know= -it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it =0A> now. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 02:25:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tracey Gagne Subject: Re: rob's first novel Comments: To: az421@freenet.carleton.ca In-Reply-To: <20071206010612.8290224745@smeagol.ncf.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline congratulations, Rob! That's a great accomplishment! :) Tracey On 12/5/07, Rob McLennan wrote: > > my first little novel, white, is now part of the world; > > info here; > http://www.themercurypress.ca/?q=books/white > > edmonton launch was last night; ottawa launch next week; > > alberta rob > > -- > poet/editor/publisher ...STANZAS mag, above/ground press & Chaudiere > Books (www.chaudierebooks.com) ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press > fair ...13th poetry coll'n - The Ottawa City Project .... 2007-8 > writer in residence, U of Alberta * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 06:22:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Re: Zappa/The Mother's of Invention make fun of Dylan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit He tous regularly in the US and Europe with Dr. Eugene Chadbourne... in fact, they're touring the West right now. Gerald Schwartz There should be biopic of Jimmy Carl Black! I was surprised and pleased when he popped up on an album by the UK band Ella Guru a couple of years ago. ----- Original Message ---- From: Gerald Schwartz To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Thursday, 6 December, 2007 12:08:10 AM Subject: Re: Zappa/The Mother's of Invention make fun of Dylan I spoke rently to Jimmy Carl Black who told me there's a kind of biopic in the works. Gerald Schwartz > There's an album where Zappa makes fun of Dylan's harmonica playing, a > cheap shot, but hilarious. Does anyone remember it? & speaking of Zappa, > he'd make an excellent subject for a biopic. > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try > it > now. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 03:44:19 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: print on demand Comments: cc: Joe Keppler MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I am contemplating using a print-on-demand service. To publish books and sell them over the net. I'm a newbie. Of course one hears Lulu is widely used. Does this seem to be the best option or are there better ones? Any resources available to decide how to proceed on this? For instance, forums on deciding which company to go with? If you are involved yourself in print-on-demand, do you have advice on how to proceed? Thanks, ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 03:29:17 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: akshaya kamalnaath Subject: Re: rob's first novel In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ya congrats to Rob...Im still actually in the process of writing my first novel. Akshaya Tracey Gagne wrote: congratulations, Rob! That's a great accomplishment! :) Tracey On 12/5/07, Rob McLennan wrote: > > my first little novel, white, is now part of the world; > > info here; > http://www.themercurypress.ca/?q=books/white > > edmonton launch was last night; ottawa launch next week; > > alberta rob > > -- > poet/editor/publisher ...STANZAS mag, above/ground press & Chaudiere > Books (www.chaudierebooks.com) ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press > fair ...13th poetry coll'n - The Ottawa City Project .... 2007-8 > writer in residence, U of Alberta * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ > --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 05:33:47 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Nelson Subject: digital poetry lectures MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit All, These are the first in what I hope to be a long series of digital poetry artist lectures. http://www.revver.com/account/show/heliopod/ My hope is to ask courses/students/institutions to send me questions and I would answer them via our lovely blue screen video room. So if anyone is interested. cheers, Jason --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 07:24:35 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: "Louis Pasteur is born!" (Creeley on biopics)/no writers In-Reply-To: <629584.20713.qm@web86008.mail.ird.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I first heard of Edgard Varese by seeing him in an early PBS program about Marcel Duchamp. The next day I met Edgard Varese and talked to him. (He lived around the corner from where I was growing up.) I began listening to his music and then to the music of other contemporary composers which has remained my favorite music to this day. Whenever I learn of a concert in NYC featuring Varese's music, I go. It is always interesting and enjoyable to me, even though I know his music well. Regards, Tom Savage Barry Schwabsky wrote: ----- Origina And I first heard of Edgar Varese from a Zappa album. ----- Original Message ---- From: Gerald Schwartz To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Thursday, 6 December, 2007 12:12:26 AM Subject: Re: "Louis Pasteur is born!" (Creeley on biopics)/no writers I first ( at age 8) heard of Pound from the Dylan tune. Went and looked him up. Read all about him. Still do. Once in a while I still listen to B.D. Gerald Schwartz > Or the one on Ray Charles, a well done, but predictable Hollywood flic. > > Notice how many biopics are about musicians. Nothing on Pound. Or the > Beats. Or Berryman. Unlike Dylan, these are not household names. > Everyone's heard of Dylan. But Pound? Too damn bad. An Anne Sexton bio > could examine the 50s & probably get a decent audience. > > Christophe Casamassima wrote: Any > opinions on Walk the Line? > > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "steve d. dalachinsky" >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: Re: "Louis Pasteur is born!" (Creeley on biopics) >> Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 02:34:07 -0500 >> >> >> edward g robinson if i remember played pasteur i got a good education >> from biopix when i was a kid >> great modgliani film new piaf old breska any ken almost any ken >> russell bio film is great >> even amadeus was pretty good madame curie on ansd on as i'm writing >> this the cops are yelling ast someone to get the fk down on the ground >> right outside my window i went out to look indeed he was on the ground >> which brings to mind serpico >> french connection ah i could go on and on >> >> On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 16:01:54 -0800 Stephen Baraban >> writes: >> > I remember reading at least one interview with Robert >> > Creeley in which he pointedly mentioned seeing a movie >> > in which a doctor pronounces the words "Louis Pasteur >> > is born!" I guess this was "The Story of Louis Pasteur" made in >> > 1936? I didn't see any such film, but they must have >> > set up the situation by having the doctor ask the >> > parents if they have names prepared yet--and the >> > parents would have said something like "yes, Louis if >> > it's a boy, and Catherine if it's a girl". >> > >> > Anyway, Creeley, at the same time as making a wider >> > philosophical point, had isolated the big problem with >> > biographical films--they have a hard time not sticking >> > the protaganist with a tedious fixed character, set >> > from the start. Terrific directors have done poorly in >> > their biopics. I don't like Mike Leigh's film about Gilbert and >> > Sullivan creating "The Mikado" as much as the other >> > films of his I've seen. Roberto Rossellini, according >> > to notes provided at a Museum of Modern Art screening, >> > valued his biographical film about Italian >> > revolutionary Geribaldi, "Viva Italia!", above >> > anything else he ever did, but it's hard for me to >> > appreciate it all that much--it seemed like another >> > fairly pedestrian epic biography with a cast of >> > thousands, like "Ghandi" (though Rossellini found a >> > path to the creation of excellent didactic biographies >> > about people like Pascal and Louis XIV in his final >> > "educational film" period). Francis Ford Coppola's movie about a >> > maverick car >> > manufacturer, "Tucker: The Man and His Dream"--totally >> > held my interest--Coppola made it wonderfully *festive*. >> > >> > Is Spike Lee's Malcolm movie also one of the unusual >> > ones?--I can't offer an opinion, I've only seen >> > sections of it on TV. >> > >> > Mostly I've experienced biopics as utilitarian >> > constructs from which I could extract a little >> > and some worthwhile information. From >> > biopics I've learned some things about Ghandi, salsero >> > Hector Lavoe, & sex researcher Dr. Kinsey. I'd like to see the >> > flicks Aldon lists; I've missed >> > them. Oh, and "Heart Like a Wheel", about drag racer Shirley >> > Muldowney, for me also transcended the usual deal--or >> > do I (a non driver) have some special thing for movies >> > about cars? --- ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: >> > >> > > examples -- > > Great bio pics that have little to do with their >> > > subjects: >> > > > Lady Sings the Blues >> > > The Barretts of Wimpole Street >> > > > This year's worst bio pic: >> > > > Talk to Me >> > > > > Some actually good bio pics, actually about their >> > > subjects: >> > > > Coal Miner's Daughter >> > > A Mighty Heart (despite the fact that the title >> > > sounds like one of Christopher >> > > Guest's parodies) >> > > Hoffa >> > > > >> > >> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> > > > We are enslaved by >> > > what makes us free -- intolerable >> > > paradox at the heart of speech. >> > > --Robert Kelly >> > > > Sailing the blogosphere at: >> > > http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ >> > > > Aldon L. Nielsen >> > > Kelly Professor of American Literature >> > > The Pennsylvania State University >> > > 116 Burrowes >> > > University Park, PA 16802-6200 >> > > > (814) 865-0091 >> > > >> _________________________________________________________________________ >> ___________ >> > Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your >> > homepage. >> > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > >> > > > = > Massage Therapy Training > Train for a career in massage therapy at these schools near you. Request > info to learn more. > http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick?redirectid=eaad84afcb41292ad123501169cfb62d > > > -- > Powered By Outblaze > > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it > now. --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 10:24:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kyle Schlesinger Subject: Re: print on demand In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Lulu is okay if everything goes well but their tech support is worthless. When I called to ask which default font they used to stamp the spines of their hardcovers (no option to have a die made) they told me 'it's a normal font.' 'A what?' 'You know, just a normal font.' Okay. There were also some issues with the color correction for the dustjacket of the same book and they told me the only way to get the color right was trial and error at my expense, in other words, keep ordering copies of your book and randomly adjust the color until it looks right. No proofs available. Like Jim, I would be interested in hearing some testimony from other publishers or reading some Consumer Reportish articles about POD. I like the idea, but haven't seen quality that competes with traditional printers and binders. Cheers, Kyle www.kyleschlesinger.com www.cuneiformpress.com www.cuneiformpress.blogspot.com > From: Jim Andrews > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 03:44:19 -0800 > To: > Subject: print on demand > > I am contemplating using a print-on-demand service. To publish books and > sell them over the net. > > I'm a newbie. > > Of course one hears Lulu is widely used. Does this seem to be the best > option or are there better ones? > > Any resources available to decide how to proceed on this? For instance, > forums on deciding which company to go with? > > If you are involved yourself in print-on-demand, do you have advice on how > to proceed? > > Thanks, > ja > http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 07:46:42 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: "Louis Pasteur is born!" (Creeley on biopics)/no writers In-Reply-To: <1196891208l.987260l.0l@psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit There was recently a movie about Sylvia Plath. As I remember Gwyneth Paltrow was in it and her acting was pretty good. Still, as I prefer Ted Hughes' poetry to Plath's, I wasn't won over to Plath's supposed greatness as a poet by this movie or, of course, by her poetry. Hughes' poetry is as good as that written by anyone contemporary to him. If you don't believe it, check out a selected poems of his. Regards, Tom Savage ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: there are several Kerouac bio pics -- I thankfully have repressed memory of the titles of them On Wed, Dec 5, 2007 03:09 PM, steve russell wrote: > Or the one on Ray Charles, a well done, but predictable Hollywood flic. > >Notice how many biopics are about musicians. Nothing on Pound. Or the Beats. Or >Berryman. Unlike Dylan, these are not household names. Everyone's heard of >Dylan. But Pound? Too damn bad. An Anne Sexton bio could examine the 50s >& probably get a decent audience. > >Christophe Casamassima wrote: Any >opinions on Walk the Line? > > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "steve d. dalachinsky" >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: Re: "Louis Pasteur is born!" (Creeley on >biopics) >> Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 02:34:07 -0500 >> >> >> edward g robinson if i remember played pasteur i got a good education >> from biopix when i was a kid >> great modgliani film new piaf old breska any ken almost any ken >> russell bio film is great >> even amadeus was pretty good madame curie on ansd on as i'm writing >> this the cops are yelling ast someone to get the fk down on the ground >> right outside my window i went out to look indeed he was on the ground >> which brings to mind serpico >> french connection ah i could go on and on >> >> On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 16:01:54 -0800 Stephen Baraban >> writes: >> > I remember reading at least one interview with Robert >> > Creeley in which he pointedly mentioned seeing a movie >> > in which a doctor pronounces the words "Louis Pasteur >> > is born!" I guess this was "The Story of Louis >Pasteur" made in >> > 1936? I didn't see any such film, but they must have >> > set up the situation by having the doctor ask the >> > parents if they have names prepared yet--and the >> > parents would have said something like "yes, Louis if >> > it's a boy, and Catherine if it's a girl". >> > >> > Anyway, Creeley, at the same time as making a wider >> > philosophical point, had isolated the big problem with >> > biographical films--they have a hard time not sticking >> > the protaganist with a tedious fixed character, set >> > from the start. Terrific directors have done poorly in >> > their biopics. I don't like Mike Leigh's film about Gilbert and >> > Sullivan creating "The Mikado" as much as the other >> > films of his I've seen. Roberto Rossellini, according >> > to notes provided at a Museum of Modern Art screening, >> > valued his biographical film about Italian >> > revolutionary Geribaldi, "Viva Italia!", above >> > anything else he ever did, but it's hard for me to >> > appreciate it all that much--it seemed like another >> > fairly pedestrian epic biography with a cast of >> > thousands, like "Ghandi" (though Rossellini found a >> > path to the creation of excellent didactic biographies >> > about people like Pascal and Louis XIV in his final >> > "educational film" period). Francis Ford Coppola's >movie about a maverick car >> > manufacturer, "Tucker: The Man and His Dream"--totally >> > held my interest--Coppola made it wonderfully *festive*. >> > >> > Is Spike Lee's Malcolm movie also one of the unusual >> > ones?--I can't offer an opinion, I've only seen >> > sections of it on TV. >> > >> > Mostly I've experienced biopics as utilitarian >> > constructs from which I could extract a little >> > and some worthwhile information. From >> > biopics I've learned some things about Ghandi, salsero >> > Hector Lavoe, & sex researcher Dr. Kinsey. I'd like to see the >> > flicks Aldon lists; I've missed >> > them. Oh, and "Heart Like a Wheel", about drag racer Shirley >> > Muldowney, for me also transcended the usual deal--or >> > do I (a non driver) have some special thing for movies >> > about cars? --- ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: >> > >> > > examples -- > > Great bio pics that have little to do >with their >> > > subjects: >> > > > Lady Sings the Blues >> > > The Barretts of Wimpole Street >> > > > This year's worst bio pic: >> > > > Talk to Me >> > > > > Some actually good bio pics, actually about their >> > > subjects: >> > > > Coal Miner's Daughter >> > > A Mighty Heart (despite the fact that the title >> > > sounds like one of Christopher >> > > Guest's parodies) >> > > Hoffa >> > > > >> > >> <> >> > >> > > > We are enslaved by >> > > what makes us free -- intolerable >> > > paradox at the heart of speech. >> > > --Robert Kelly >> > > > Sailing the blogosphere at: >> > > http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ >> > > > Aldon L. Nielsen >> > > Kelly Professor of American Literature >> > > The Pennsylvania State University >> > > 116 Burrowes >> > > University Park, PA 16802-6200 >> > > > (814) 865-0091 >> > > >> _________________________________________________________________________ >> ___________ >> > Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your >homepage. >> > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > >> > > >= >Massage Therapy Training >Train for a career in massage therapy at these schools near you. Request info >to learn more. >http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick?redirectid=eaad84afcb41292ad123501169cfb62d > > >-- >Powered By Outblaze > > > >--------------------------------- >Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We are enslaved by what makes us free -- intolerable paradox at the heart of speech. --Robert Kelly Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 11:25:48 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Patrick F. Durgin" Subject: Boyer, Cross, and Mohammad in Chicago 12/16 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sunday, December 16th, Myopic Books, 1564 N. Milwaukee Avenue, Chicago, 7:00 PM, FREE Anne Boyer, Michael Cross, & K. Silem Mohammad Anne Boyer was born in Topeka, Kansas, in 1973. She was raised in Salina, Kansas, and educated in the public universities of Kansas. She is the author of The Romance of Happy Workers (Coffee House Press, forthcoming 2008), Selected Dreams with a Note on Phrenology (Dusie Collectiv, 2007), and Anne Boyer’s Good Apocalypse (Effing Press, 2006). Along with K. Silem Mohammad, she edits the print journal Abraham Lincoln. She teaches at the Kansas City Art Institute and lives in Northeastern Kansas with her daughter Hazel and the cat Ulysses. Michael Cross edited Involuntary Vision: after Akira Kurosawa's Dreams (Avenue B, 2003), and is currently editing an anthology of the George Oppen Memorial Lectures at San Francisco State University. He publishes Atticus/Finch Chapbooks (www.atticusfinch.org), and his first book, in felt treeling, is forthcoming from Tucson, Arizona's Chax Press. He is currently a doctoral candidate at SUNY Buffalo. K. Silem Mohammad is the author of Breathalyzer (Edge Books, 2008), A Thousand Devils (Combo Books, 2004), and Deer Head Nation (Tougher Disguises, 2003). He has also co-edited and contributed to two books in Open Court's Popular Culture and Philosophy series: The Undead and Philosophy (2006) and Quentin Tarantino and Philosophy (2007). He co-edits the magazine Abraham Lincoln with Anne Boyer, and he maintains the popular poetics blog Lime Tree (lime-tree.blogspot.com). The Myopic Sunday Poetry / Talks Series is hosted by Larry Sawyer. See www.myopicbookstore.com. Hope to see you there! Patrick F. Durgin kenningeditions@gmail.com www.kenningeditions.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 11:09:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: James T Sherry Subject: To NY Audience: DECEMBER 11, a play by FIONA TEMPLETON @ Dixon Place Comments: To: segue n MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SSBoaWdobHkgcmVjb21tZW5kLCBpZiB5b3UncmUgaW4gTlksIHRvIGNvbWUgdG8gRGl4b24gUGxh Y2UgKHNlZSBiZWxvdykgdG8gDQpoZWFyIEZpb25hIFRlbXBsZXRvbidzIE1FREVBRCBvbiBEZWMg MTEuIA0KDQpJZiB5b3UncmUgbm90IGluIE5ZLCBhcG9sb2dpZXMgZm9yIHRoZSBlbWFpbC4NCg0K SmFtZXMgVCBTaGVycnkNClNlZ3VlIEZvdW5kYXRpb24NCigyMTIpIDQ5My01OTg0LCA4LTM0MC01 OTg0DQpzaGVycnlqQHVzLmlibS5jb20NCg0KLS0tLS0gRm9yd2FyZGVkIGJ5IEphbWVzIFQgU2hl cnJ5L05ldyBZb3JrL0lCTSBvbiAxMi8wNi8yMDA3IDExOjA2IEFNIA0KLS0tLS0NCg0KImVyaWNh IGthdWZtYW4iIDxlcmljYWphbmUwODA4QGdtYWlsLmNvbT4gDQoxMi8wNS8yMDA3IDA2OjM2IFBN 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IHRoZSBvcGVuIGV4cGxvcmF0aW9uIG9mIHRoZSBwcm9jZXNzIG9mIGNyZWF0aW9uLiANClBsZWFz ZSB2aXNpdCB3d3cuZGl4b25wbGFjZS5vcmcgZm9yIG1vcmUgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24uDQoNCipkZWFk bHkgbmlnaHRzaGFkZSwgYSBjYXJkaWFjIGFuZCByZXNwaXJhdG9yeSBzdGltdWxhbnQsIGhhdmlu ZyANCnB1cnBsaXNoLXJlZCBmbG93ZXJzIGFuZCBibGFjayBiZXJyaWVzIA0KDQpCZWxsYWRvbm5h KiByZWFkaW5ncyBoYXBwZW4gbW9udGhseSBiZXR3ZWVuIFNlcHRlbWJlciBhbmQgSnVuZS4gV2Ug YXJlIA0KZ3JhdGVmdWwgZm9yIGZ1bmRpbmcgYnkgUG9ldHMgYW5kIFdyaXRlcnMsIENMTVAsIE5Z U0NBLCBhbmQgRGl4b24gUGxhY2UuIA0KDQoNCi0tIA0KKioqDQoidGhlcmUgaXMgb25seSBzZWVp bmcgYW5kLCBpbiBvcmRlciB0byBnbyB0byBzZWUsIG9uZSBtdXN0IGJlIGEgcGlyYXRlIiANCg0K ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIH5rYXRoeSBhY2tlcg0KDQoqKioN Cnd3dy5iZWxsYWRvbm5hc2VyaWVzLmJsb2dzcG90LmNvbQ0Kd3d3LmJlbGxhZG9ubmFib29rcy5i bG9nc3BvdC5jb20gDQo= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 12:05:04 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Boyer, Cross, and Mohammad in Chicago 12/16 In-Reply-To: <4758309C.2080106@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit waaaa wish i cd be there... hey... maybe i can... Patrick F. Durgin wrote: > Sunday, December 16th, Myopic Books, 1564 N. Milwaukee Avenue, > Chicago, 7:00 PM, FREE > > Anne Boyer, Michael Cross, & K. Silem Mohammad > > Anne Boyer was born in Topeka, Kansas, in 1973. She was raised in > Salina, Kansas, and educated in the public universities of Kansas. She > is the author of The Romance of Happy Workers (Coffee House Press, > forthcoming 2008), Selected Dreams with a Note on Phrenology (Dusie > Collectiv, 2007), and Anne Boyer’s Good Apocalypse (Effing Press, > 2006). Along with K. Silem Mohammad, she edits the print journal > Abraham Lincoln. She teaches at the Kansas City Art Institute and > lives in Northeastern Kansas with her daughter Hazel and the cat Ulysses. > > Michael Cross edited Involuntary Vision: after Akira Kurosawa's Dreams > (Avenue B, 2003), and is currently editing an anthology of the George > Oppen Memorial Lectures at San Francisco State University. He > publishes Atticus/Finch Chapbooks (www.atticusfinch.org), and his > first book, in felt treeling, is forthcoming from Tucson, Arizona's > Chax Press. He is currently a doctoral candidate at SUNY Buffalo. > > K. Silem Mohammad is the author of Breathalyzer (Edge Books, 2008), A > Thousand Devils (Combo Books, 2004), and Deer Head Nation (Tougher > Disguises, 2003). He has also co-edited and contributed to two books > in Open Court's Popular Culture and Philosophy series: The Undead and > Philosophy (2006) and Quentin Tarantino and Philosophy (2007). He > co-edits the magazine Abraham Lincoln with Anne Boyer, and he > maintains the popular poetics blog Lime Tree (lime-tree.blogspot.com). > > The Myopic Sunday Poetry / Talks Series is hosted by Larry Sawyer. See > www.myopicbookstore.com. > > Hope to see you there! > > Patrick F. Durgin > kenningeditions@gmail.com > www.kenningeditions.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 12:13:49 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: print on demand In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Working with bookmobile.com via Nicole Baxter has been an absolute pleasure. They also have a wider choice of papers, cover stock & finish etc. The finished books are a much higher quality product than lulu. For runs over 50 copies they will also be much cheaper than lulu. bookmobile.com however doesn't have the online marketing aspect that places like booksurge, lulu & cafepress... & ditto what Kyle says about lulu's tech support. ~mIEKAL On Dec 6, 2007, at 9:24 AM, Kyle Schlesinger wrote: > Lulu is okay if everything goes well but their tech support is > worthless. > When I called to ask which default font they used to stamp the > spines of > their hardcovers (no option to have a die made) they told me 'it's > a normal > font.' 'A what?' 'You know, just a normal font.' Okay. > > There were also some issues with the color correction for the > dustjacket of > the same book and they told me the only way to get the color right > was trial > and error at my expense, in other words, keep ordering copies of > your book > and randomly adjust the color until it looks right. No proofs > available. > > Like Jim, I would be interested in hearing some testimony from other > publishers or reading some Consumer Reportish articles about POD. I > like the > idea, but haven't seen quality that competes with traditional > printers and > binders. > > Cheers, > > Kyle > www.kyleschlesinger.com > www.cuneiformpress.com > www.cuneiformpress.blogspot.com > > > >> From: Jim Andrews >> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >> Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 03:44:19 -0800 >> To: >> Subject: print on demand >> >> I am contemplating using a print-on-demand service. To publish >> books and >> sell them over the net. >> >> I'm a newbie. >> >> Of course one hears Lulu is widely used. Does this seem to be the >> best >> option or are there better ones? >> >> Any resources available to decide how to proceed on this? For >> instance, >> forums on deciding which company to go with? >> >> If you are involved yourself in print-on-demand, do you have >> advice on how >> to proceed? >> >> Thanks, >> ja >> http://vispo.com > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 10:52:14 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve russell Subject: Re: "Louis Pasteur is born!" (Creeley on biopics)/no writers In-Reply-To: <136613.80854.qm@web31103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hughes always impressed me. I have his collected poems. From there, I kept reading. I wasn't so impressed by "Birthday Letters," his collection of poems addressed to Plath. Many of the poems are touching, but too private for my taste. I think a damn good movie could be made about Berryman. His drinking bouts, time in rehab, are legendary. He was pals with Saul Bellow. He's my favorite confessional poet. His poetry kept evolving. Thomas savage wrote: There was recently a movie about Sylvia Plath. As I remember Gwyneth Paltrow was in it and her acting was pretty good. Still, as I prefer Ted Hughes' poetry to Plath's, I wasn't won over to Plath's supposed greatness as a poet by this movie or, of course, by her poetry. Hughes' poetry is as good as that written by anyone contemporary to him. If you don't believe it, check out a selected poems of his. Regards, Tom Savage ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: there are several Kerouac bio pics -- I thankfully have repressed memory of the titles of them On Wed, Dec 5, 2007 03:09 PM, steve russell wrote: > Or the one on Ray Charles, a well done, but predictable Hollywood flic. > >Notice how many biopics are about musicians. Nothing on Pound. Or the Beats. Or >Berryman. Unlike Dylan, these are not household names. Everyone's heard of >Dylan. But Pound? Too damn bad. An Anne Sexton bio could examine the 50s >& probably get a decent audience. > >Christophe Casamassima wrote: Any >opinions on Walk the Line? > > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "steve d. dalachinsky" >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: Re: "Louis Pasteur is born!" (Creeley on >biopics) >> Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 02:34:07 -0500 >> >> >> edward g robinson if i remember played pasteur i got a good education >> from biopix when i was a kid >> great modgliani film new piaf old breska any ken almost any ken >> russell bio film is great >> even amadeus was pretty good madame curie on ansd on as i'm writing >> this the cops are yelling ast someone to get the fk down on the ground >> right outside my window i went out to look indeed he was on the ground >> which brings to mind serpico >> french connection ah i could go on and on >> >> On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 16:01:54 -0800 Stephen Baraban >> writes: >> > I remember reading at least one interview with Robert >> > Creeley in which he pointedly mentioned seeing a movie >> > in which a doctor pronounces the words "Louis Pasteur >> > is born!" I guess this was "The Story of Louis >Pasteur" made in >> > 1936? I didn't see any such film, but they must have >> > set up the situation by having the doctor ask the >> > parents if they have names prepared yet--and the >> > parents would have said something like "yes, Louis if >> > it's a boy, and Catherine if it's a girl". >> > >> > Anyway, Creeley, at the same time as making a wider >> > philosophical point, had isolated the big problem with >> > biographical films--they have a hard time not sticking >> > the protaganist with a tedious fixed character, set >> > from the start. Terrific directors have done poorly in >> > their biopics. I don't like Mike Leigh's film about Gilbert and >> > Sullivan creating "The Mikado" as much as the other >> > films of his I've seen. Roberto Rossellini, according >> > to notes provided at a Museum of Modern Art screening, >> > valued his biographical film about Italian >> > revolutionary Geribaldi, "Viva Italia!", above >> > anything else he ever did, but it's hard for me to >> > appreciate it all that much--it seemed like another >> > fairly pedestrian epic biography with a cast of >> > thousands, like "Ghandi" (though Rossellini found a >> > path to the creation of excellent didactic biographies >> > about people like Pascal and Louis XIV in his final >> > "educational film" period). Francis Ford Coppola's >movie about a maverick car >> > manufacturer, "Tucker: The Man and His Dream"--totally >> > held my interest--Coppola made it wonderfully *festive*. >> > >> > Is Spike Lee's Malcolm movie also one of the unusual >> > ones?--I can't offer an opinion, I've only seen >> > sections of it on TV. >> > >> > Mostly I've experienced biopics as utilitarian >> > constructs from which I could extract a little >> > and some worthwhile information. From >> > biopics I've learned some things about Ghandi, salsero >> > Hector Lavoe, & sex researcher Dr. Kinsey. I'd like to see the >> > flicks Aldon lists; I've missed >> > them. Oh, and "Heart Like a Wheel", about drag racer Shirley >> > Muldowney, for me also transcended the usual deal--or >> > do I (a non driver) have some special thing for movies >> > about cars? --- ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: >> > >> > > examples -- > > Great bio pics that have little to do >with their >> > > subjects: >> > > > Lady Sings the Blues >> > > The Barretts of Wimpole Street >> > > > This year's worst bio pic: >> > > > Talk to Me >> > > > > Some actually good bio pics, actually about their >> > > subjects: >> > > > Coal Miner's Daughter >> > > A Mighty Heart (despite the fact that the title >> > > sounds like one of Christopher >> > > Guest's parodies) >> > > Hoffa >> > > > >> > >> <> >> > >> > > > We are enslaved by >> > > what makes us free -- intolerable >> > > paradox at the heart of speech. >> > > --Robert Kelly >> > > > Sailing the blogosphere at: >> > > http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ >> > > > Aldon L. Nielsen >> > > Kelly Professor of American Literature >> > > The Pennsylvania State University >> > > 116 Burrowes >> > > University Park, PA 16802-6200 >> > > > (814) 865-0091 >> > > >> _________________________________________________________________________ >> ___________ >> > Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your >homepage. >> > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > >> > > >= >Massage Therapy Training >Train for a career in massage therapy at these schools near you. Request info >to learn more. >http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick?redirectid=eaad84afcb41292ad123501169cfb62d > > >-- >Powered By Outblaze > > > >--------------------------------- >Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We are enslaved by what makes us free -- intolerable paradox at the heart of speech. --Robert Kelly Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 14:12:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: print on demand In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed For perfect-bound trade paperbacks the quality can be competitive with offset, though most digital houses offer more limited choices. A 51/2 x 81/2 is printed two-up, larger sizes means a lot of wasted paper, and above 6x10 isn't really feasible. Usually there are only a few paper choices. As to fonts, if you can make the file they can print it. For color, as with any other printing get a proof and they can adjust if need be. Usually part of the setup cost. I don't do casebound books, but I know a lot of folks who do. I've never heard of limits on fonts for spines. But most digital houses are happy to farm out cover production to offfset houses if one wishes. There's a real advantage to working locally. I use Sterling-Pierce in East Rockaway, just outside NYC. For the first couple of books I watched the covers come out of the printer, which was reassuring. Also delivery is very fast, and I can pick up the books myself if I want to. They deliver daily to much of Manhattan. And when they've made mistakes (every printer I've worked with makes mistakes, and I've worked with most of the short-run offset houses) they cheerfully reprint at their cost and in a very timely fashion. I usually print in increments of 2-300. From their receipt of the files to finished project is never more than two weeks, often less than a week, and reorders are never longer than a week. If you need more choices, the bigger offset houses, like Friessens, are now doing digital as well, and they have a lot of papers to choose from in stock. Bottom line, unless you either like storing a lot of books or you know you're going to sell a thousand or more very quickly, it's a no-brainer. In my case, not having to invest so much upfront for each book frees me to publish more titles. And nobody looks at Junction Press's books and wonders how they're printed. Mark At 10:24 AM 12/6/2007, you wrote: >Lulu is okay if everything goes well but their tech support is worthless. >When I called to ask which default font they used to stamp the spines of >their hardcovers (no option to have a die made) they told me 'it's a normal >font.' 'A what?' 'You know, just a normal font.' Okay. > >There were also some issues with the color correction for the dustjacket of >the same book and they told me the only way to get the color right was trial >and error at my expense, in other words, keep ordering copies of your book >and randomly adjust the color until it looks right. No proofs available. > >Like Jim, I would be interested in hearing some testimony from other >publishers or reading some Consumer Reportish articles about POD. I like the >idea, but haven't seen quality that competes with traditional printers and >binders. > >Cheers, > >Kyle >www.kyleschlesinger.com >www.cuneiformpress.com >www.cuneiformpress.blogspot.com > > > > > From: Jim Andrews > > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > > Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 03:44:19 -0800 > > To: > > Subject: print on demand > > > > I am contemplating using a print-on-demand service. To publish books and > > sell them over the net. > > > > I'm a newbie. > > > > Of course one hears Lulu is widely used. Does this seem to be the best > > option or are there better ones? > > > > Any resources available to decide how to proceed on this? For instance, > > forums on deciding which company to go with? > > > > If you are involved yourself in print-on-demand, do you have advice on how > > to proceed? > > > > Thanks, > > ja > > http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 12:47:37 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Re: "Louis Pasteur is born!" (Creeley on biopics)/no writers In-Reply-To: <332865.65581.qm@web52408.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline There have been a great many movies made "about" writers and their bios, myths, personae, just not very many good ones. (this is excluding for the moment documentaries of which there are many very good ones.) A good film was made of Stevie Smith's life, part of it--with Glenda Jackson giving an excellent performance. The film of Tom and Viv-- Mr T S Eliot and his first wife--i thought fairly good. Reds for example--Warren Beatty's intended "sweeping" epic life of John Reed (Ten Days that Shook the World, he also wrote poetry) had also Jack Nicholson playing Eugene O'Neil . Then there are the Hemingway semi-bios like Islands in the Stream with as i recall George C Scott. Biopics like Last Time I Saw Paris based on Scott and Zelda Fitzgerald, a bad old swashbuckler one on life of Villon, the Rimbaud-Verlaine one with Leo di Caprio, Barfly based on Bukowski, Capote which won lot of awards for performance, a couple bad ones i have seen on the life/lives of the Brontes, others from the blurred pop culture images of the writings and life of Edgar Poe, basically the ghostly after effects of Classics comics versions of him, entertaining in a luridly filmed way,. I remember dimly an old french film on the life of Jules Verne that was fun. Ring Lardner, in Eight Men Out, played by John Sayles, the film's director, and very well, as an amazingly resemblance The really good films about writers tend to be of mythical or dream poets like Cocteau's ORPHEE which had such a huge influence on Jack Spicer, as well as Cocteau's much earlier classic, le Sang d'un poete. (Blood of a Poet) And let's not forget a great film (screenplay differing bit from the book, both by Graham Greene)--THE THIRD MAN--a great film featuring a writer of Westerns (Joseph Cotten as Holly Martins) in search of an old friend--(Orson Welles--also sought after via Cotten in Citizen Kane)-- In Clint Eastwood's Unforgiven--a main character is a writer of the trashy tales of "legendary" outlaws and gunslingers, whom the brutal Gene Hackman takes under his wing --to chronicle a "real life" gunslinger at work-- In Kurosawa's great IKIRU (To Live) there is the --again--writer of pulp fiction, a kindhearted gaunt poete maudit type, who becomes the friend of the dying protagonist. In Godard's Pierrot le fou, Belmondo wants to be a writer, and starts writing-- there are a great many versions made in several languages of Knut Hamsun's great autobiographical HUNGER--literally about a "starving writer"-- An interesting aspect of (real and fictional) writers in film is that they are included in the action and developments of characters--as a device, a commentator, an investigator, an instigator, a prompter, a spy--the writer becomes a link between the audience and the action on screen--provided extra details, connections between characters and sub-plots-- riffing of the scenes with their own personal imaginings and speculations-- The writer is perceived so to speak by/within many films as an observer within the observing and observed field of visions of characters and audiences both. The writer is the "private eye" exploring for those "inquiring minds who want to know"--in many cases hired by someone in the film--and in a sense, by the audience also, which has paid for admission and now demands a good return on the investment. The greatest example of a writer as many of these aspects in film may be thought of as Shakespeare's RICHARD THE THIRD--since Richard basically speaks his "writing" of the action --ahead of time--to the audience--and then proceeds to act out the scenes--the writer becoming an actor who is simultaneously directing the scene unknown to the other characters who now make their entrances according to his script, right on cue, and "follow his direction to the letter" in the most literal ways. All of which Richard can afterwards share as a good laugh with his reader/audience Since a lot of American writers had been involved with journalism, and had done from time to time pulp writing also--it was an easy move when many of these multi-genred, multi-professional writers worked in Hollywood to insert the character of a writer In many films noir, one finds a character, either a newspaper reporter, a writer-wanna-be or a screen play writer--often as the person who plays the part of the narrator, or a commentator on the action-- Or the writer--because a professional practitioner of fictions, lies--may be the "suspect" as in the Humphrey Bogart film in which he plays a violence-prone screen writer. For example, In Billy Wilder's Sunset Boulevard, the Bill Holden character is a screenplay writer-- In the 1948 version of Robert Penn Warren's All the King's Men with Broderick Crawford, a reporter turned speech writer and PR man is one of the main characters--hauled along to be the observer-- Newspaper reporters were featured in many screwball comedies--two versions each of My Girl Friday and Ball of Fire for example-- All the Presidents Men--investigative reporting-- Naked Lunch features its author Bill Burroughs as his own character-(an actor playing Bill "playing" fictionally/autobiographically himself--)-within both his writings being made--and within the film being made of his writings-- One could go on and on and on-getting lost---into the labyrinths of Borgesian libraries of decaying films in cannisters containing the "lives of writers," "the days and nights of the poets," the tragic and comic melodramas of authors real and imaginary, famous and forgotten . . . ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 14:08:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Alexander Subject: Re: print on demand In-Reply-To: <977B2D81-CA92-4807-A985-AC8E509917AF@mwt.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed I agree with mIEKAL about bookmobile.com and Nicole Baxter. bookmobile.com DOES have an agreement with a book fulfillment service, too, if you're short on time to handle sales/distribution yourself. I haven't tried that but have been thinking about it, particularly as our new studio has precious little space even for a few more boxes of inventory. And even with print-on-demand, I like to have a couple of hundred or more books on hand whenever possible. I have to say that sometimes the binding used at bookmobile.com makes the book look a little wobbly near the spine, although generally this flattens/settles with time, and seems to be less true with books of more than 150 pages or so. Also, one disappointment I've had (and because of it, I haven't tried it in a couple of years) is with the matte finish books at bookmobile.com. That said, I still think they're the best of the print-on-demand manufacturers of which I know. But I certainly haven't tried all that many companies. I do agree with Kyle that their quality is not as impressive as books from good traditional offset printer/binders. Our last book was printed by Thomson-Shore, and one of our next books is being printed there as well, and the difference is definitely worth talking about. But bookmobile.com is certainly good enough that we will consider them for just about all of our projects, particularly anything in a print run of 500 or fewer. charles alexander chax press chax@theriver.com 650 e. ninth st. tucson arizona 8505 520 620 1626 On Dec 6, 2007, at 11:13 AM, mIEKAL aND wrote: > Working with bookmobile.com via Nicole Baxter has been an absolute > pleasure. They also have a wider choice of papers, cover stock & > finish etc. The finished books are a much higher quality product > than lulu. For runs over 50 copies they will also be much cheaper > than lulu. bookmobile.com however doesn't have the online > marketing aspect that places like booksurge, lulu & cafepress... & > ditto what Kyle says about lulu's tech support. > > ~mIEKAL > > > > > On Dec 6, 2007, at 9:24 AM, Kyle Schlesinger wrote: > >> Lulu is okay if everything goes well but their tech support is >> worthless. >> When I called to ask which default font they used to stamp the >> spines of >> their hardcovers (no option to have a die made) they told me 'it's >> a normal >> font.' 'A what?' 'You know, just a normal font.' Okay. >> >> There were also some issues with the color correction for the >> dustjacket of >> the same book and they told me the only way to get the color right >> was trial >> and error at my expense, in other words, keep ordering copies of >> your book >> and randomly adjust the color until it looks right. No proofs >> available. >> >> Like Jim, I would be interested in hearing some testimony from other >> publishers or reading some Consumer Reportish articles about POD. >> I like the >> idea, but haven't seen quality that competes with traditional >> printers and >> binders. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Kyle >> www.kyleschlesinger.com >> www.cuneiformpress.com >> www.cuneiformpress.blogspot.com >> >> >> >>> From: Jim Andrews >>> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >>> Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 03:44:19 -0800 >>> To: >>> Subject: print on demand >>> >>> I am contemplating using a print-on-demand service. To publish >>> books and >>> sell them over the net. >>> >>> I'm a newbie. >>> >>> Of course one hears Lulu is widely used. Does this seem to be the >>> best >>> option or are there better ones? >>> >>> Any resources available to decide how to proceed on this? For >>> instance, >>> forums on deciding which company to go with? >>> >>> If you are involved yourself in print-on-demand, do you have >>> advice on how >>> to proceed? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> ja >>> http://vispo.com >> > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 16:21:14 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: first publication dates of 2 books Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Anyone know or know how to find out the first publication dates of two books? "Exploits and Opinions of Dr. Faustroll, pataphysician," Alfred Jarry. "Age of Huts," Vassily Kamensky. (I believe this one is referenced in one of Janacek's books but I can't seem to find it.) thanks! ~mIEKAL ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 12:28:39 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabrielle Welford Subject: Re: rob's first novel In-Reply-To: <543455.15621.qm@web56805.mail.re3.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT me too--for the last 21 years... :-) On Thu, 6 Dec 2007, akshaya kamalnaath wrote: > Ya congrats to Rob...Im still actually in the process of writing my first novel. > Akshaya > > Tracey Gagne wrote: > congratulations, Rob! That's a great accomplishment! > > :) > Tracey > > > On 12/5/07, Rob McLennan wrote: > > > > my first little novel, white, is now part of the world; > > > > info here; > > http://www.themercurypress.ca/?q=books/white > > > > edmonton launch was last night; ottawa launch next week; > > > > alberta rob > > > > -- > > poet/editor/publisher ...STANZAS mag, above/ground press & Chaudiere > > Books (www.chaudierebooks.com) ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press > > fair ...13th poetry coll'n - The Ottawa City Project .... 2007-8 > > writer in residence, U of Alberta * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 16:51:12 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: first publication dates of 2 books In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oops, makes it harder when I munge the title. (Apologies to Ron S). Should have read The Mud Hut (Zemlyanka) which it turns out was first published in 1910. ~m On Dec 6, 2007, at 4:21 PM, mIEKAL aND wrote: > Anyone know or know how to find out the first publication dates of > two books? > > > > "Exploits and Opinions of Dr. Faustroll, pataphysician," Alfred Jarry. > > "Age of Huts," Vassily Kamensky. (I believe this one is referenced > in one of Janacek's books but I can't seem to find it.) > > > > thanks! > > > > ~mIEKAL ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 16:51:05 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Reviews at Jacket Comments: To: british-irish-poets@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, poetryetc@jiscmail.ac.uk, UKPOETRY@LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Two reviews at Jacket of Stet: Selected Poems, by=20 Jos=E9 Kozer, with my translations, one by Eugenia=20 Demuro=20 http://jacketmagazine.com/34/demuro-kozer.shtml,=20 the other by Christopher Leland Winks=20 http://jacketmagazine.com/34/winks-kozer.shtml.=20 The book is available from junctionpress.com, or,=20 to take advantage of 20% discount to the list, backchannel to me. Mark ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 13:05:00 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lisa Samuels Subject: Michele Leggott, new New Zealand Poet Laureate (new!) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear All New Zealand has chosen Michele Leggott as the country's first Poet Laureate, happy news not only for her word-caressing poetry but also for the attention to the NZEPC, the New Zealand Electronic Poetry Centre that Michele established on the model of the EPC. For 2008-2009, Michele will officially foster New Zealand poetries digital and otherwise: more poetically charged-up life here at The University of Auckland! Warmly thithers, Lisa Samuels ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 19:08:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetry Project Subject: Events at The Poetry Project December In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Hi Everyone, These are the upcoming events at The Poetry Project. Scroll all the way dow= n for some info on the big New Year=B9s Day thing that happens here. Yours, The Poetry Project Friday, December 7, 10 PM The Theatre of a Two-Headed Calf! A New Performance by Lucy Alibar! QURASH CO-LAB! Erin Markey! Dyke Squad (a branch of The Theatre of a Two-headed Calf) is a queer collaborative writing and performing team made up of Jess Barbagallo, Laryssa Husiak, Brooke O'Harra and Laura Stinger, directed by Brooke O'Harr= a (with many amazing guest performers). Dyke Squad is pleased to present Room for Cream, a live lesbian soap opera series which will run at La Mama, ever= y Sat. at 5:30pm beginning Jan 08. Dyke Squad came together in order to write and perform queer theater and provide a solid venue to involve and engage queer women in the community. . . . or perhaps to have some not-so-clean dyke fun. The Theatre of a Two-Headed Calf, founded by Brooke O=B9Harra (director) and Brendan Connelly (composer), is a collective of artists and designers who are working in concert to explore new and often impossible means of opening up and presenting dramatic texts. Their new production, Drums of the Waves of Horikawa is at HERE Arts Center from October 24 - November 17. Lucy Alibar's works include Juicy and Delicious, a bluegrass musical about sex and Southern food (The Tank, Collective Unconscious); A Friend of Dorothy, about Judy Garland (Best of Montreal Fringe nomination, Avignon, Bath, and Edinburgh Festivals); Gorgeous Raptors, about girls who transform into dinosaurs (Young Playwrights Festival, Cherry Lane Theatre). This summer, Mommy Says I=B9m Pretty on the Insides and Home Baking Made Easy (with Zoe Aja Moore) were performed at Williamstown Theatre Festival. Lucy is an Affiliated Artist of New Georges, and a member of EST=B9s Youngblood. QURASH CO-LAB (Queers United Resisting Assimilation into Societal Heteronormativity) presents... T-Phag ProDuct #2 Chase My Hole, an 8 minute collaborative 'ilm (like 'zine) that originated to give voice to working class queer artists. The film itself is a double projection combining 16mm and 8 mm film as well as a live musical score. In attendance will be John Parker, a conceptual artist who created QURASH to build global-community amongst queer artists. Parker also specializes in oil painting, woodcut printmaking,and drawing. His work queers elements of concept, sound, form, line, color and texture. He completed an BFA in Art at the University of Texas. Parker also works in Super 8 film. Erin Markey is a performing artis= t and writer who creates original music and knows her way around a brass pole= . Her newest production, Puppy Love: A Stripper's Tail, is playing at NYC's The Green Room through December 18, and will be a part of the nation-wide 2008 Sex Worker's Art Show Tour starting January 17th. Her blues opera, Looking for Limbo, co-written with Joseph Keckler, was recently included in the 2007 Lincoln Center Director's Lab. Her work has appeared at the Solomo= n R. Guggenheim Museum, Joe's Pub, Here Arts Center, and frequently at Dixon Place, among other venues. Puppy Love, created and performed by Erin Markey= , music by Rich Campbell & Erin Markey, directed by Nathan Lemoine will be available as an audiobook in January 2008. Monday, December 10, 8 PM Lydia Cortes & Mendi and Keith Obadike Lydia Cortes, originally a Puerto Rican Brooklynite, also lived in Rome, Italy. Manhattan is home now for more than 30 years. She was awarded a MacDowell Fellowship; a NEA Fellowship for The Virginia Center for the Creative Arts; a residency in Spain at Fundacion Valparaiso and a Jerome Foundation grant. Her story, Home Cookin=B9 is included in the anthology, Through the Kitchen Window, a poem in the anthology Teaching with Fire; an essay in the anthology In Praise of Teachers and a play in Monologues from the Road. Her work has also appeared in The New York News Sunday and Urban Latino magazines among other venues. The title of her collection of poetry is Lust for Lust. Three of her poems appear in Boriquen to Diasporican: Puerto Rican Poetry from Aboriginal Times to the New Millennium, edited by Roberto Marquez. She also has an unpublished story collection, Park Avenue, Brooklyn, about a Puerto Rican child and her family in the 1950=B9s neighborhood of Williamsburg. Mendi + Keith Obadike make music, art and literature. Their projects have been featured on radio stations (including WBAI-NY, WHUR-DC and WNYC), in periodicals (including Art Journal, Artthrob= , Meridians, New Music Box, Black Arts Quarterly, Leonardo Electronic Almanac and Tema Celeste), and survey texts including New Media Art (Taschen) and Internet Art (Thames and Hudson). A series of Mendi and Keith=B9s media works are featured in the recent anthology Re: skin a(M.I.T. Press). Keith received a BA in Art from North Carolina Central University and an MFA in Sound Design from Yale University. He is an assistant professor in the College Arts and Communication at William Paterson University. Mendi received a BA in English from Spelman College and a PhD in Literature from Duke University. She is a Cotsen Postdoctoral Fellow at Princeton University. Wednesday, December 12, 8 PM Lee Ann Brown & Abigail Child Lee Ann Brown teaches poetry at St. John's University's Queens and Manhatta= n campuses. Her books include Polyverse (Sun & Moon Press), The Sleep That Changed Everything (Wesleyan University Press) and Nascent Toolbox (with Laynie Browne) from The Owl Press. She is the author of a song cycle, =B3The Thirteenth Sunday in Ordinary Time=B2, a live performance of which is available for download from PennSound. She has been awarded poetry fellowships from the New York Foundation for the Arts, the Howard Foundation, and the National Endowment for the Humanities. She divides her time between NYC and NC where she, together with Tony Torn, is starting an as-yet-unnamed multidisciplinary performance space in Marshall, NC. Abigail Child is the author of five books of poetry, among them A Motive for Mayhem and Scatter Matrix as well as a book of critical writing: THIS IS CALLED MOVING: A Critical Poetics of Film. An award-winning filmmaker as well as a writer, Child pushes the envelope of sound-image and text-image relations with humor, liveliness and complex montage. She teaches in Boston, and call= s NYC her home. Tuesday, January 1, 2 PM The 34th Annual New Year's Day Marathon Reading Ring in the new year with: Rich O'Russa, David Mills, Jenny Smith, Johanna Fuhrman, Erica Doyle, Dan Machlin, John Godfrey, Cat Tyc, Jessica Rogers, Renato Rosaldo, Stefania Iryne Marthakis, Rodrigo Toscano, Yoshiko Chuma, Elinor Nauen, Frances Richard, Phyllis Wat, Ed Friedman, Christina Strong, Stephanie Gray, Evan Kennedy, Lydia Cortes, Kim Rosenfield, Azareen Van Der Vliet Oloomi, Shanxing Wang, Lauren Russell, Marcella Durand, Marc Nasdor, Brendan Lorber, Alan Davies, Gina Myers, Stephen Motika, Bob Rosenthal, Susie Timmons, Eliot Katz, Maggie Dubris, Peter Lucas Erixon, Eve Packer, Chris Stackhouse, David Kirschenbaum, Bill Kushner, Tom Savage, Rob Fitterman, Cliff Fyman, Tara Betts, Jennifer Coleman, Allison Cobb, Jill Magi, Gillian McCain, Emily XYZ, Todd Colby, Elliott Sharp, Paolo Javier, Eileen Myles, John Giorno, Steve Earle, Donna Brook, Bob Hershon, Jen Benka= , Carol Mirakove, Tim Peterson, Lenny Kaye, Anne Tardos, Sharon Mesmer, Greg Fuchs, Douglas Dunn, Wayne Koestenbaum, Renato Gomez, Rebecca Moore, Michae= l Cirelli, Joe Eliot, Tracey McTague, Jess Fiorini, Murat Nemet-Nejat, Vincen= t Katz, Merry Fortune, David Vogen, Geoffrey Cruickshank-Hagenbuckle, Jackie Sheeler, Penny Arcade, Michael Lydon, Filip Marinovic, Yuko Otomo, Steve Dalachinsky, Adeena Karasick, Barbara Henning, Tisa Bryant, Bruce Andrews, Sally Silvers, Corrine Fitzpatrick, Arlo Quint, Stacy Szymaszek, C.A. Conrad, Keith Roach, Daniel Higgs, John S. Hall, Maggie Estep, Michael Scharf, Wanda Phipps, Leonard Schwartz, Miles Champion, Citizen Reno, Jaime Manrique, Dael Orlandersmith, Uche Nduka, Laura Jaramillo, Nathaniel Siegel= , Jim Behrle, Anselm Berrigan, Dustin Williamson, Macgregor Card, John Coletti, Amelia Jackie, Simone White, Hal Sirowitz, Peter Bushyeager, Guillermo Castro, Simon Pettet, Max Winter, Tonya Foster, Judith Malina, Hanon Reznikov, Ted Greenwald, Patricia Spears Jones, Philip Glass, Avram Fefer, Taylor Mead, Lee Ann Brown, Deniz=E9 Lauture, Thom Donovan, Frankin Bruno, Drew Gardner, Kyle Schlesinger, Don Yorty, Kimberly Lyons, Katie Degentesh, Tracie Morris, Val Jeanty, Chris Rael, Daniel Higgs, Sparrow/Foamola, Eric Bogosian, Ben Malkin, M=F3nica de la Torre, Emil Bognar-Nasdor, Bob Holman, Janet Hamill, Katie Degentesh, John S. Hall and more tba. General Admission $16 / Students & Seniors $12 / Members $10 Become a Poetry Project Member! http://poetryproject.com/membership.php Fall Calendar: http://www.poetryproject.com/calendar.php The Poetry Project is located at St. Mark's Church-in-the-Bowery 131 East 10th Street at Second Avenue New York City 10003 Trains: 6, F, N, R, and L. info@poetryproject.com www.poetryproject.com Admission is $8, $7 for students/seniors and $5 for members (though now those who take out a membership at $85 or higher will get in FREE to all regular readings). We are wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. For more info call 212-674-0910. If you=B9d like to be unsubscribed from this mailing list, please drop a line at info@poetryproject.com. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 15:04:10 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Keithley, Karinne" Subject: Re: print on demand In-Reply-To: A MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am using Lulu to start a press to publish plays with no capital whatsoever, and I think it works really well. There are some good supplementary (off-lulu) tip sites accessible via lulu's FAQ sections. It is trial and error to get it right, but it's not so terrible. As for fonts and color correction, I would be happy to share what I've learned through trial and error with anyone that wanted to contact me off this list kk@fancystitchmachine.org. I do it entirely with my own pdfs (on quark express) and don't mess with their wizards. Their tech staff is decent for the mechanics of the site- if uploads go wrong. I haven't tried other POD's- this was recommended to me by an artist friend who has several friends that use it. I'm on my third book and finally getting the hang of what looks right coming out of their printers, and quite happy with it. It's not as gorgeous as a good offset printer wd be, but considering that you don't have to worry at all about putting out money, it's great-- that offsets the cost of having to order and pay for a book as a way to get proofs, which costs abt 15 bucks each time you do it, depending on page count and color/bw. Cheers Karinne -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Kyle Schlesinger Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 10:25 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: print on demand Lulu is okay if everything goes well but their tech support is worthless. When I called to ask which default font they used to stamp the spines of their hardcovers (no option to have a die made) they told me 'it's a normal font.' 'A what?' 'You know, just a normal font.' Okay. There were also some issues with the color correction for the dustjacket of the same book and they told me the only way to get the color right was trial and error at my expense, in other words, keep ordering copies of your book and randomly adjust the color until it looks right. No proofs available. Like Jim, I would be interested in hearing some testimony from other publishers or reading some Consumer Reportish articles about POD. I like the idea, but haven't seen quality that competes with traditional printers and binders. Cheers, Kyle =20 www.kyleschlesinger.com www.cuneiformpress.com www.cuneiformpress.blogspot.com > From: Jim Andrews > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 03:44:19 -0800 > To: > Subject: print on demand >=20 > I am contemplating using a print-on-demand service. To publish books and > sell them over the net. >=20 > I'm a newbie. >=20 > Of course one hears Lulu is widely used. Does this seem to be the best > option or are there better ones? >=20 > Any resources available to decide how to proceed on this? For instance, > forums on deciding which company to go with? >=20 > If you are involved yourself in print-on-demand, do you have advice on how > to proceed? >=20 > Thanks, > ja > http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 15:25:41 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Keithley, Karinne" Subject: Re: print on demand In-Reply-To: A<977B2D81-CA92-4807-A985-AC8E509917AF@mwt.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My last message aside, I just visited bookmobile.com and the paper/size options look much nicer than lulu. -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of mIEKAL aND Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 1:14 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: print on demand Working with bookmobile.com via Nicole Baxter has been an absolute =20 pleasure. They also have a wider choice of papers, cover stock & =20 finish etc. The finished books are a much higher quality product =20 than lulu. For runs over 50 copies they will also be much cheaper =20 than lulu. bookmobile.com however doesn't have the online marketing =20 aspect that places like booksurge, lulu & cafepress... & ditto what =20 Kyle says about lulu's tech support. ~mIEKAL On Dec 6, 2007, at 9:24 AM, Kyle Schlesinger wrote: > Lulu is okay if everything goes well but their tech support is =20 > worthless. > When I called to ask which default font they used to stamp the =20 > spines of > their hardcovers (no option to have a die made) they told me 'it's =20 > a normal > font.' 'A what?' 'You know, just a normal font.' Okay. > > There were also some issues with the color correction for the =20 > dustjacket of > the same book and they told me the only way to get the color right =20 > was trial > and error at my expense, in other words, keep ordering copies of =20 > your book > and randomly adjust the color until it looks right. No proofs =20 > available. > > Like Jim, I would be interested in hearing some testimony from other > publishers or reading some Consumer Reportish articles about POD. I =20 > like the > idea, but haven't seen quality that competes with traditional =20 > printers and > binders. > > Cheers, > > Kyle > www.kyleschlesinger.com > www.cuneiformpress.com > www.cuneiformpress.blogspot.com > > > >> From: Jim Andrews >> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >> Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 03:44:19 -0800 >> To: >> Subject: print on demand >> >> I am contemplating using a print-on-demand service. To publish =20 >> books and >> sell them over the net. >> >> I'm a newbie. >> >> Of course one hears Lulu is widely used. Does this seem to be the =20 >> best >> option or are there better ones? >> >> Any resources available to decide how to proceed on this? For =20 >> instance, >> forums on deciding which company to go with? >> >> If you are involved yourself in print-on-demand, do you have =20 >> advice on how >> to proceed? >> >> Thanks, >> ja >> http://vispo.com > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 18:48:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Roche Subject: Anthology in Honor of Sam Abrams--Launch Parties! Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Announcing a new anthology from Spuyten Duyvil Press, Uncensored Songs for Sam Abrams, edited by John Roche. Sam Abrams, author of The Neglected Whitman and The Old Pothead Poems, taught at the St. Mark=B9s Poetry Project in the 1960s and participated in th= e Angry Arts Against the War collective. He taught for many years at Rocheste= r Institute of Technology. Publication parties and group readings with featured guest Sam Abrams. Wednesday, December 12, 7-9 pm: Writers & Books 740 University Avenue, Rochester, NY Saturday, Jan. 5, 12:30-3:30 pm: Bowery Poetry Club 308 Bowery NYC Featuring contributions by Amiri Baraka, Anne Waldman, Ed Sanders, Tuli Kupferberg, Andrei Codrescu, Bob Holman, Michael Gregory Stephens, Jim Cohn= , Joel Sloman, Dennis Formento, Benjamin Spencer, Joe Early, George Kimball, Tony Weinberger, Frank Judge, Vincent f.a. Golphin, DJ Rix, Mark Maslow, Larry Meyers, Graham Arthur Mackenzie, Alan Boegehold, Karen Fields, Dane Gordon, Mark Price, Larry Belle, Vivianna Calabria, Leah Zazulyer. Mary Lyn= n Broe, Peter Ferran, and John Roche. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 19:57:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Kerouac event NYC Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed In celebration of the 50th anniversary of the publication of On the Road, Simon Pettet and Michael Lally will read from both the "official" and the newly-published scroll versions. Rare recordings of the man himself will also be played. 7 p.m. at The Open Center, 83 Spring Street, admission $10. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 20:06:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Ciccariello Subject: Re: print on demand In-Reply-To: <84DF409C-CBFD-4608-95E4-F99B903B3203@theriver.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I agree with Charles and mIEKAL, mIEKAL recommended Bookmobile to me some time ago and I have used them several times since. They printed my recent release UNCOMMON VISION and I was very pleased with the color quality. - Peter Ciccariello On Dec 6, 2007 4:08 PM, Charles Alexander wrote: > I agree with mIEKAL about bookmobile.com and Nicole Baxter. > bookmobile.com DOES have an agreement with a book fulfillment > service, too, if you're short on time to handle sales/distribution > yourself. I haven't tried that but have been thinking about it, > particularly as our new studio has precious little space even for a > few more boxes of inventory. And even with print-on-demand, I like to > have a couple of hundred or more books on hand whenever possible. I > have to say that sometimes the binding used at bookmobile.com makes > the book look a little wobbly near the spine, although generally this > flattens/settles with time, and seems to be less true with books of > more than 150 pages or so. Also, one disappointment I've had (and > because of it, I haven't tried it in a couple of years) is with the > matte finish books at bookmobile.com. That said, I still think > they're the best of the print-on-demand manufacturers of which I > know. But I certainly haven't tried all that many companies. I do > agree with Kyle that their quality is not as impressive as books from > good traditional offset printer/binders. Our last book was printed by > Thomson-Shore, and one of our next books is being printed there as > well, and the difference is definitely worth talking about. But > bookmobile.com is certainly good enough that we will consider them > for just about all of our projects, particularly anything in a print > run of 500 or fewer. > > charles alexander > chax press > chax@theriver.com > 650 e. ninth st. > tucson arizona 8505 > 520 620 1626 > > > > > On Dec 6, 2007, at 11:13 AM, mIEKAL aND wrote: > > > Working with bookmobile.com via Nicole Baxter has been an absolute > > pleasure. They also have a wider choice of papers, cover stock & > > finish etc. The finished books are a much higher quality product > > than lulu. For runs over 50 copies they will also be much cheaper > > than lulu. bookmobile.com however doesn't have the online > > marketing aspect that places like booksurge, lulu & cafepress... & > > ditto what Kyle says about lulu's tech support. > > > > ~mIEKAL > > > > > > > > > > On Dec 6, 2007, at 9:24 AM, Kyle Schlesinger wrote: > > > >> Lulu is okay if everything goes well but their tech support is > >> worthless. > >> When I called to ask which default font they used to stamp the > >> spines of > >> their hardcovers (no option to have a die made) they told me 'it's > >> a normal > >> font.' 'A what?' 'You know, just a normal font.' Okay. > >> > >> There were also some issues with the color correction for the > >> dustjacket of > >> the same book and they told me the only way to get the color right > >> was trial > >> and error at my expense, in other words, keep ordering copies of > >> your book > >> and randomly adjust the color until it looks right. No proofs > >> available. > >> > >> Like Jim, I would be interested in hearing some testimony from other > >> publishers or reading some Consumer Reportish articles about POD. > >> I like the > >> idea, but haven't seen quality that competes with traditional > >> printers and > >> binders. > >> > >> Cheers, > >> > >> Kyle > >> www.kyleschlesinger.com > >> www.cuneiformpress.com > >> www.cuneiformpress.blogspot.com > >> > >> > >> > >>> From: Jim Andrews > >>> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > >>> Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 03:44:19 -0800 > >>> To: > >>> Subject: print on demand > >>> > >>> I am contemplating using a print-on-demand service. To publish > >>> books and > >>> sell them over the net. > >>> > >>> I'm a newbie. > >>> > >>> Of course one hears Lulu is widely used. Does this seem to be the > >>> best > >>> option or are there better ones? > >>> > >>> Any resources available to decide how to proceed on this? For > >>> instance, > >>> forums on deciding which company to go with? > >>> > >>> If you are involved yourself in print-on-demand, do you have > >>> advice on how > >>> to proceed? > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> ja > >>> http://vispo.com > >> > > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 18:33:14 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Crane's Bills Books Subject: Re: first publication dates of 2 books MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit mIEKAL, Faustroll was 1911, but fragments had appeared in 1895 in Mercure de France. Simon Watson Taylor's English translation came out in 1965. I don't know if it was the first. J. A. Lee Crane's Bill Books ----- Original Message ----- From: "mIEKAL aND" To: Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 3:51 PM Subject: Re: first publication dates of 2 books > Oops, makes it harder when I munge the title. (Apologies to Ron S). > > Should have read > > The Mud Hut (Zemlyanka) > > which it turns out was first published in 1910. > > > ~m > > > On Dec 6, 2007, at 4:21 PM, mIEKAL aND wrote: > >> Anyone know or know how to find out the first publication dates of two >> books? >> >> >> >> "Exploits and Opinions of Dr. Faustroll, pataphysician," Alfred Jarry. >> >> "Age of Huts," Vassily Kamensky. (I believe this one is referenced in >> one of Janacek's books but I can't seem to find it.) >> >> >> >> thanks! >> >> >> >> ~mIEKAL > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: > 269.16.13/1170 - Release Date: 12/4/2007 10:52 AM > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 21:03:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: "Louis Pasteur is born!" (Creeley on biopics)/no writers In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline David, Your list is absolutely breathtaking, and your analyses of Richard the Third and the writer as the script writer and director, directing the audience, even more. All the while, I was wondering when you'll get to Naked Lunch with the type-wrier from out of space. You made it in the last paragraph. What about Under the Volcano or Moby Dick (Call me Ishmael, the narrator begins) or The Great Gatsby or Dashiell Hammet's Continental Ops series? Or, Andre Gide's The Counterfeiters? Ciao, Murat On Dec 6, 2007 3:47 PM, David Chirot wrote: > There have been a great many movies made "about" writers and their > bios, myths, personae, just not very many good ones. > > (this is excluding for the moment documentaries of which there are > many very good ones.) > > A good film was made of Stevie Smith's life, part of it--with Glenda > Jackson giving an excellent performance. The film of Tom and Viv-- Mr > T S Eliot and his first wife--i thought fairly good. > > Reds for example--Warren Beatty's intended "sweeping" epic life of > John Reed (Ten Days that Shook the World, he also wrote poetry) had > also Jack Nicholson playing Eugene O'Neil > . > Then there are the Hemingway semi-bios like Islands in the Stream > with as i recall George C Scott. Biopics like Last Time I Saw Paris > based on Scott and Zelda Fitzgerald, a bad old swashbuckler one on > life of Villon, the Rimbaud-Verlaine one with Leo di Caprio, Barfly > based on Bukowski, Capote which won lot of awards for performance, a > couple bad ones i have seen on the life/lives of the Brontes, others > from the blurred pop culture images of the writings and life of Edgar > Poe, basically the ghostly after effects of Classics comics versions > of him, entertaining in a luridly filmed way,. > I remember dimly an old french film on the life of Jules Verne that was > fun. > > Ring Lardner, in Eight Men Out, played by John Sayles, the film's > director, and very well, as an amazingly resemblance > > The really good films about writers tend to be of mythical or dream > poets like Cocteau's ORPHEE which had such a huge influence on Jack > Spicer, as well as Cocteau's much earlier classic, le Sang d'un poete. > (Blood of a Poet) > > > And let's not forget a great film (screenplay differing bit from the > book, both by Graham Greene)--THE THIRD MAN--a great film featuring a > writer of Westerns (Joseph Cotten as Holly Martins) in search of an > old friend--(Orson Welles--also sought after via Cotten in Citizen > Kane)-- > > In Clint Eastwood's Unforgiven--a main character is a writer of the > trashy tales of "legendary" outlaws and gunslingers, whom the brutal > Gene Hackman takes under his wing --to chronicle a "real life" > gunslinger at work-- > > In Kurosawa's great IKIRU (To Live) there is the --again--writer of > pulp fiction, a kindhearted gaunt poete maudit type, who becomes the > friend of the dying protagonist. > > In Godard's Pierrot le fou, Belmondo wants to be a writer, and starts > writing-- > > there are a great many versions made in several languages of Knut > Hamsun's great autobiographical HUNGER--literally about a "starving > writer"-- > > An interesting aspect of (real and fictional) writers in film is that > they are included in the action and developments of characters--as a > device, a commentator, an investigator, an instigator, a prompter, a > spy--the writer becomes a link between the audience and the action on > screen--provided extra details, connections between characters and > sub-plots-- > riffing of the scenes with their own personal imaginings and > speculations-- > > The writer is perceived so to speak by/within many films as an > observer within the observing and observed field of visions of > characters and audiences both. The writer is the "private eye" > exploring for those "inquiring minds who want to know"--in many cases > hired by someone in the film--and in a sense, by the audience also, > which has paid for admission and now demands a good return on the > investment. > > The greatest example of a writer as many of these aspects in film may > be thought of as Shakespeare's RICHARD THE THIRD--since Richard > basically speaks his "writing" of the action --ahead of time--to the > audience--and then proceeds to act out the scenes--the writer becoming > an actor who is simultaneously directing the scene unknown to the > other characters who now make their entrances according to his script, > right on cue, and "follow his direction to the letter" in the most > literal ways. All of which Richard can afterwards share as a good > laugh with his reader/audience > > Since a lot of American writers had been involved with journalism, and > had done from time to time pulp writing also--it was an easy move when > many of these multi-genred, multi-professional writers worked in > Hollywood to insert the character of a writer > In many films noir, one finds a character, either a newspaper > reporter, a writer-wanna-be or a screen play writer--often as the > person who plays the part of the narrator, or a commentator on the > action-- > > Or the writer--because a professional practitioner of fictions, > lies--may be the "suspect" as in the Humphrey Bogart film in which he > plays a violence-prone screen writer. > > For example, In Billy Wilder's Sunset Boulevard, the Bill Holden > character is a screenplay writer-- > > In the 1948 version of Robert Penn Warren's All the King's Men with > Broderick Crawford, a reporter turned speech writer and PR man is one > of the main characters--hauled along to be the observer-- > > Newspaper reporters were featured in many screwball comedies--two > versions each of My Girl Friday and Ball of Fire for example-- > All the Presidents Men--investigative reporting-- > > Naked Lunch features its author Bill Burroughs as his own > character-(an actor playing Bill "playing" > fictionally/autobiographically himself--)-within both his writings > being made--and within the film being made of his writings-- > > One could go on and on and on-getting lost---into the labyrinths of > Borgesian libraries of decaying films in cannisters containing the > "lives of writers," "the days and nights of the poets," the tragic and > comic melodramas of authors real and imaginary, famous and forgotten . > . . > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 18:03:45 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Luke Schlueter Subject: " poetry . . .as well written as prose" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Luke Schlueter here. I'm new to this listserv having happily = stumbled upon it as I was looking for a forum to discuss poetics. =20 =20 I embarked upon this search with a specific purpose in mind. In a = letter to Harriet Monroe Ezra Pound famously stated that "poetry should = be as well written as prose." I use the line in an academic paper I'm = writing having to do with the poetry of Stephen Dunn, but it occurred to = me that I am basing my use of Pound's statement on an assumption about = what Pound meant, which may be entirely wrong. =20 I would be very interested, then, to hear what some of you may have so = say about the set of historical/cultural/aesthetic assumptions = underlying Pound's statement. What were the specific conditions of = poetry and prose that he was responding to? What excellence did he = imagine prose to enacting, and what lack of excellence poetry? Who were = some prose writers he had in mind? Was he thinking of essayists? or = novelists? Or both?=20 =20 So we'll see if this topic has legs. =20 Best, Luke ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 19:33:37 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Alexander Subject: Re: Michele Leggott, new New Zealand Poet Laureate (new!) In-Reply-To: <5e93e4440712061605o63f38648md7d1112915ddf7a2@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Lisa, This is such great news. Michele is a terrific poet; I've loved her work for years! Charles charles alexander chax press chax@theriver.com 650 e. ninth st. tucson arizona 8505 520 620 1626 On Dec 6, 2007, at 5:05 PM, Lisa Samuels wrote: > Dear All > > New Zealand has chosen Michele Leggott as the country's first Poet > Laureate, > happy news not only for her word-caressing poetry but also for > the attention to the NZEPC, the New Zealand Electronic Poetry Centre > that Michele established on the model of the EPC. > > For 2008-2009, Michele will officially foster New Zealand poetries > digital > and otherwise: > more poetically charged-up life here at The University of Auckland! > > Warmly thithers, > Lisa Samuels > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 18:52:33 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Fwd: A Hanukah Message From Jewish Voice for Peace In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear David, Jews all over the world are now celebrating Hanukah, a commemoration of a military victory over a ruler who had banned the religion of the people of Judea and had ransacked the Holy Temple. Against overwhelming odds, the Maccabian revolt prevailed. In times where hope seems to be in short supply, we can take encouragement from this story. As the forces of occupation, violence and conflict seem to be getting more and more entrenched, it is important that we recall that the story of Hanukah is one of many stories in human history of people triumphing over seemingly overwhelming odds. Although the High Court in Israel has once again delayed the Israeli government from reducing power to the Gaza Strip, the plan to do so has been essentially approved and is only days away from being enacted. Indeed, in an ironic twist, it may yet still begin during Hanukah, which is sometimes referred to as the "Festival of Lights." The threat to cut power to Gaza is being held up until the government can "prove" that this will not unduly impact the civilian population of Gaza. But the fuel supply cut can only have one effect, and that is to harm the people of Gaza. It does nothing to deter rocket fire from Gaza, and will only convince the Palestinian people, in both Gaza and the West Bank, of what they already suspect--that Israel's willingness to participate in peace talks is merely a smokescreen for tightening the occupation and the siege of Gaza. For so many of us, this is the season of holidays. We at Jewish Voice for Peace wish you a happy holiday season and hope you will join us in reminding the world that there are no holidays for the besieged people of Gaza or any Palestinians living under the yoke of occupation. We ask you to join us in calling on the United States to work to stop Israel from deepening the already devastating humanitarian crisis in Gaza, to end tech American and Israeli isolation of Gaza and to work to bring the Palestinian factions back together so that a representative Palestinian government can work toward resolving this conflict and ending the occupation, which is so devastating to Palestinians and is hurting Israelis as well. Wishing you and your family a happy holiday season, The members, board and staff of Jewish Voice for Peace To unsubscribe, click here. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 20:31:04 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Baraban Subject: The Pasteur movie anecdote In-Reply-To: <002301c8379c$aec17900$63ae4a4a@yourae066c3a9b> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I've found one Creeley citation of his Pasteur movie anecdote, from his Collected Essays, (which is on-line and searchable), from his essay "Inside Out" (dedicated to Jane Brakhage). You'll see it's his wife (early 70s essay, so Bobbie Louise Hawkins--or first wife Anne?) who told him about the movie, which sounds like a wild comedy--the doctor actually says "Tonight history was made". Creeley's talking about autobiography and says: Or, paradoxically, it may have little at all to do with memory. Or let's say, memory is a source of material, fantasy as well as fact. I remember! "I remember, I remember/ the house where I was born . . ." Like a movie my wife told me of in the old days, of doctor coming home in carriage with horse through driving rain, finally pushing his way through door into house, wife all excited and waiting for his first words, which are: Tonight history was made. I have just delivered Louis Pasteur! _________________________ Excuse my awkward prose after Creeley's, but let me say this: I think it's something of a struggle, frankly, to apply the anecdote to the context Creeley provides. Hmmmmm. Something about memory being altered by what one learns later, I guess, so that for instance a doctor who delivered a later-to-be-acclaimed human might at some later point begin to *imagine* he experienced portents of the person's importance from the start. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 21:51:21 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Quartermain Subject: Re: Michele Leggott, new New Zealand Poet Laureate (new!) In-Reply-To: <5e93e4440712061605o63f38648md7d1112915ddf7a2@mail.gmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable That really is wonderful news, made my day (and hers, I'm sure). P =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Peter Quartermain 846 Keefer Street Vancouver BC Canada V6A 1Y7 604 255 8274 (voice and fax) quarterm@interchange.ubc.ca =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] = On Behalf Of Lisa Samuels Sent: 06 December 2007 04:05 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Michele Leggott, new New Zealand Poet Laureate (new!) Dear All New Zealand has chosen Michele Leggott as the country's first Poet = Laureate, happy news not only for her word-caressing poetry but also for the attention to the NZEPC, the New Zealand Electronic Poetry Centre that Michele established on the model of the EPC. For 2008-2009, Michele will officially foster New Zealand poetries = digital and otherwise: more poetically charged-up life here at The University of Auckland! Warmly thithers, Lisa Samuels ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 22:13:06 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: akshaya kamalnaath Subject: Re: rob's first novel In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit omg ur scaring me. Ive been writing it since three months nd hopefully will be done with a irst draft in a few more months. Then I'll post u guys an absolutely free copy to get your reviews. Im not writing the first one for monew. just to get started types. Gabrielle Welford wrote: me too--for the last 21 years... :-) On Thu, 6 Dec 2007, akshaya kamalnaath wrote: > Ya congrats to Rob...Im still actually in the process of writing my first novel. > Akshaya > > Tracey Gagne wrote: > congratulations, Rob! That's a great accomplishment! > > :) > Tracey > > > On 12/5/07, Rob McLennan wrote: > > > > my first little novel, white, is now part of the world; > > > > info here; > > http://www.themercurypress.ca/?q=books/white > > > > edmonton launch was last night; ottawa launch next week; > > > > alberta rob > > > > -- > > poet/editor/publisher ...STANZAS mag, above/ground press & Chaudiere > > Books (www.chaudierebooks.com) ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press > > fair ...13th poetry coll'n - The Ottawa City Project .... 2007-8 > > writer in residence, U of Alberta * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. > --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 22:22:28 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: akshaya kamalnaath Subject: A query letter...its hilarious In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit A Fiction Query Letter From Victorian Literature The following is from Trollope's short story "Josephine De Montmorenci." It's a fictional example of breaking all the query letter rules and simply trying to catch the attention of an editor. In this story, it worked. Dear Sir, I think that literature needs no introduction, and judging of you by the character which you have made for yourself in its paths, I do not doubt but you will feel as I do. I shall therefore write to you without reserve. I am a lady not possessing that modesty which should make me hold a low opinion of my own talents, and equally free of that feeling of self belittlement which induces so many to speak humbly while they think proudly of their own acquirements. Though I am still young, I have written much for the press, and I believe I may boast that I have sometimes done so successfully. Hitherto, I have kept back my name, but I hope soon to be allowed to see it on the title page of a book which shall not shame me. My object in troubling you is to announce the fact, agreeable enough to myself, that I have just completed a novel in three volumes, and to suggest to you that it should make its first appearance to the world in the magazine under your control. I will frankly tell you that I am not fond of this mode of publication; but Messrs. X., Y., and Z., of Paternoster Row, with whom you are doubtless acquainted, have assured me that such will be the better course. In these matters, one is still terribly subject to the tyranny of the publishers, who surely of all cormorants are the most greedy, and of all tyrants, are the most arrogant. Though I have never seen you, I know you too well to suspect for a moment that my words will ever be repeated to my respectable friends in the Row. Shall I wait upon you with my manuscript, - or will you call for it? Or perhaps it may be better that I should send it to you. Young ladies should not run about, - even after editors; and it might be so probable that I should not find you at home. Messrs. X., Y., and Z. have read the manuscript., - or more probably the young man who they keep for the purpose has done so, - and the nod of approval has been vouchsafed. Perhaps this may suffice; but if a second examination be needful, the work is at your service. Yours faithfully, and in hopes of friendly relations, Josephine De Montmorenci Gabrielle Welford wrote: me too--for the last 21 years... :-) On Thu, 6 Dec 2007, akshaya kamalnaath wrote: > Ya congrats to Rob...Im still actually in the process of writing my first novel. > Akshaya > > Tracey Gagne wrote: > congratulations, Rob! That's a great accomplishment! > > :) > Tracey > > > On 12/5/07, Rob McLennan wrote: > > > > my first little novel, white, is now part of the world; > > > > info here; > > http://www.themercurypress.ca/?q=books/white > > > > edmonton launch was last night; ottawa launch next week; > > > > alberta rob > > > > -- > > poet/editor/publisher ...STANZAS mag, above/ground press & Chaudiere > > Books (www.chaudierebooks.com) ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press > > fair ...13th poetry coll'n - The Ottawa City Project .... 2007-8 > > writer in residence, U of Alberta * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. > --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 23:20:48 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andy Gricevich Subject: Re: Zappa/The Mother's of Invention make fun of Dylan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Varese as mimicked on Zappa's magnificent "Lumpy Gravy" was my introduction to new music. I'd like to see a biopic of Capt. Beefheart. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 06:30:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aryanil Mukherjee Subject: Re: "Louis Pasteur is born!" (Creeley on biopics)/no writers In-Reply-To: <1dec21ae0712061803r5f635451x12451d580a469443@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Murat & David Want to add Antonioni's La Notte to this fabulous list. Didn't Mastroianni play a writer too in Fellini's 8.5 ? Aryanil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Murat Nemet-Nejat" To: Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 9:03 PM Subject: Re: "Louis Pasteur is born!" (Creeley on biopics)/no writers > David, > > Your list is absolutely breathtaking, and your analyses of Richard the > Third > and the writer as the script writer and director, directing the audience, > even more. > > All the while, I was wondering when you'll get to Naked Lunch with the > type-wrier from out of space. You made it in the last paragraph. > > What about Under the Volcano or Moby Dick (Call me Ishmael, the narrator > begins) or The Great Gatsby or Dashiell Hammet's Continental Ops series? > Or, > Andre Gide's The Counterfeiters? > > Ciao, > > Murat > > On Dec 6, 2007 3:47 PM, David Chirot wrote: > >> There have been a great many movies made "about" writers and their >> bios, myths, personae, just not very many good ones. >> >> (this is excluding for the moment documentaries of which there are >> many very good ones.) >> >> A good film was made of Stevie Smith's life, part of it--with Glenda >> Jackson giving an excellent performance. The film of Tom and Viv-- Mr >> T S Eliot and his first wife--i thought fairly good. >> >> Reds for example--Warren Beatty's intended "sweeping" epic life of >> John Reed (Ten Days that Shook the World, he also wrote poetry) had >> also Jack Nicholson playing Eugene O'Neil >> . >> Then there are the Hemingway semi-bios like Islands in the Stream >> with as i recall George C Scott. Biopics like Last Time I Saw Paris >> based on Scott and Zelda Fitzgerald, a bad old swashbuckler one on >> life of Villon, the Rimbaud-Verlaine one with Leo di Caprio, Barfly >> based on Bukowski, Capote which won lot of awards for performance, a >> couple bad ones i have seen on the life/lives of the Brontes, others >> from the blurred pop culture images of the writings and life of Edgar >> Poe, basically the ghostly after effects of Classics comics versions >> of him, entertaining in a luridly filmed way,. >> I remember dimly an old french film on the life of Jules Verne that was >> fun. >> >> Ring Lardner, in Eight Men Out, played by John Sayles, the film's >> director, and very well, as an amazingly resemblance >> >> The really good films about writers tend to be of mythical or dream >> poets like Cocteau's ORPHEE which had such a huge influence on Jack >> Spicer, as well as Cocteau's much earlier classic, le Sang d'un poete. >> (Blood of a Poet) >> >> >> And let's not forget a great film (screenplay differing bit from the >> book, both by Graham Greene)--THE THIRD MAN--a great film featuring a >> writer of Westerns (Joseph Cotten as Holly Martins) in search of an >> old friend--(Orson Welles--also sought after via Cotten in Citizen >> Kane)-- >> >> In Clint Eastwood's Unforgiven--a main character is a writer of the >> trashy tales of "legendary" outlaws and gunslingers, whom the brutal >> Gene Hackman takes under his wing --to chronicle a "real life" >> gunslinger at work-- >> >> In Kurosawa's great IKIRU (To Live) there is the --again--writer of >> pulp fiction, a kindhearted gaunt poete maudit type, who becomes the >> friend of the dying protagonist. >> >> In Godard's Pierrot le fou, Belmondo wants to be a writer, and starts >> writing-- >> >> there are a great many versions made in several languages of Knut >> Hamsun's great autobiographical HUNGER--literally about a "starving >> writer"-- >> >> An interesting aspect of (real and fictional) writers in film is that >> they are included in the action and developments of characters--as a >> device, a commentator, an investigator, an instigator, a prompter, a >> spy--the writer becomes a link between the audience and the action on >> screen--provided extra details, connections between characters and >> sub-plots-- >> riffing of the scenes with their own personal imaginings and >> speculations-- >> >> The writer is perceived so to speak by/within many films as an >> observer within the observing and observed field of visions of >> characters and audiences both. The writer is the "private eye" >> exploring for those "inquiring minds who want to know"--in many cases >> hired by someone in the film--and in a sense, by the audience also, >> which has paid for admission and now demands a good return on the >> investment. >> >> The greatest example of a writer as many of these aspects in film may >> be thought of as Shakespeare's RICHARD THE THIRD--since Richard >> basically speaks his "writing" of the action --ahead of time--to the >> audience--and then proceeds to act out the scenes--the writer becoming >> an actor who is simultaneously directing the scene unknown to the >> other characters who now make their entrances according to his script, >> right on cue, and "follow his direction to the letter" in the most >> literal ways. All of which Richard can afterwards share as a good >> laugh with his reader/audience >> >> Since a lot of American writers had been involved with journalism, and >> had done from time to time pulp writing also--it was an easy move when >> many of these multi-genred, multi-professional writers worked in >> Hollywood to insert the character of a writer >> In many films noir, one finds a character, either a newspaper >> reporter, a writer-wanna-be or a screen play writer--often as the >> person who plays the part of the narrator, or a commentator on the >> action-- >> >> Or the writer--because a professional practitioner of fictions, >> lies--may be the "suspect" as in the Humphrey Bogart film in which he >> plays a violence-prone screen writer. >> >> For example, In Billy Wilder's Sunset Boulevard, the Bill Holden >> character is a screenplay writer-- >> >> In the 1948 version of Robert Penn Warren's All the King's Men with >> Broderick Crawford, a reporter turned speech writer and PR man is one >> of the main characters--hauled along to be the observer-- >> >> Newspaper reporters were featured in many screwball comedies--two >> versions each of My Girl Friday and Ball of Fire for example-- >> All the Presidents Men--investigative reporting-- >> >> Naked Lunch features its author Bill Burroughs as his own >> character-(an actor playing Bill "playing" >> fictionally/autobiographically himself--)-within both his writings >> being made--and within the film being made of his writings-- >> >> One could go on and on and on-getting lost---into the labyrinths of >> Borgesian libraries of decaying films in cannisters containing the >> "lives of writers," "the days and nights of the poets," the tragic and >> comic melodramas of authors real and imaginary, famous and forgotten . >> . . >> > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.15/1174 - Release Date: > 12/6/2007 10:11 AM > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 11:37:07 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barry Schwabsky Subject: Re: "Louis Pasteur is born!" (Creeley on biopics)/no writers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Another great film about a writer: Samuell Fuller's astonishing Shock Corri= dor, 1963, about a journalist who has himself committed in order to be able= to investigate life inside a madhouse. =0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ---= -=0AFrom: Murat Nemet-Nejat =0ATo: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFF= ALO.EDU=0ASent: Friday, 7 December, 2007 2:03:17 AM=0ASubject: Re: "Louis P= asteur is born!" (Creeley on biopics)/no writers=0A=0ADavid,=0A=0AYour list= is absolutely breathtaking, and your analyses of Richard the Third=0Aand t= he writer as the script writer and director, directing the audience,=0Aeven= more.=0A=0AAll the while, I was wondering when you'll get to Naked Lunch w= ith the=0Atype-wrier from out of space. You made it in the last paragraph.= =0A=0AWhat about Under the Volcano or Moby Dick (Call me Ishmael, the narra= tor=0Abegins) or The Great Gatsby or Dashiell Hammet's Continental Ops seri= es? Or,=0AAndre Gide's The Counterfeiters?=0A=0ACiao,=0A=0AMurat=0A=0AOn De= c 6, 2007 3:47 PM, David Chirot wrote:=0A=0A> Ther= e have been a great many movies made "about" writers and their=0A> bios, my= ths, personae, just not very many good ones.=0A>=0A> (this is excluding for= the moment documentaries of which there are=0A> many very good ones.)=0A>= =0A> A good film was made of Stevie Smith's life, part of it--with Glenda= =0A> Jackson giving an excellent performance. The film of Tom and Viv-- Mr= =0A> T S Eliot and his first wife--i thought fairly good.=0A>=0A> Reds for= example--Warren Beatty's intended "sweeping" epic life of=0A> John Reed = (Ten Days that Shook the World, he also wrote poetry) had=0A> also Jack Nic= holson playing Eugene O'Neil=0A> .=0A> Then there are the Hemingway semi-b= ios like Islands in the Stream=0A> with as i recall George C Scott. Biopic= s like Last Time I Saw Paris=0A> based on Scott and Zelda Fitzgerald, a ba= d old swashbuckler one on=0A> life of Villon, the Rimbaud-Verlaine one with= Leo di Caprio, Barfly=0A> based on Bukowski, Capote which won lot of award= s for performance, a=0A> couple bad ones i have seen on the life/lives of t= he Brontes, others=0A> from the blurred pop culture images of the writings= and life of Edgar=0A> Poe, basically the ghostly after effects of Classics= comics versions=0A> of him, entertaining in a luridly filmed way,.=0A> I r= emember dimly an old french film on the life of Jules Verne that was=0A> fu= n.=0A>=0A> Ring Lardner, in Eight Men Out, played by John Sayles, the film'= s=0A> director, and very well, as an amazingly resemblance=0A>=0A> The real= ly good films about writers tend to be of mythical or dream=0A> poets like = Cocteau's ORPHEE which had such a huge influence on Jack=0A> Spicer, as wel= l as Cocteau's much earlier classic, le Sang d'un poete.=0A> (Blood of a P= oet)=0A>=0A>=0A> And let's not forget a great film (screenplay differing bi= t from the=0A> book, both by Graham Greene)--THE THIRD MAN--a great film fe= aturing a=0A> writer of Westerns (Joseph Cotten as Holly Martins) in search= of an=0A> old friend--(Orson Welles--also sought after via Cotten in Citiz= en=0A> Kane)--=0A>=0A> In Clint Eastwood's Unforgiven--a main character is = a writer of the=0A> trashy tales of "legendary" outlaws and gunslingers, wh= om the brutal=0A> Gene Hackman takes under his wing --to chronicle a "real = life"=0A> gunslinger at work--=0A>=0A> In Kurosawa's great IKIRU (To Live) = there is the --again--writer of=0A> pulp fiction, a kindhearted gaunt poet= e maudit type, who becomes the=0A> friend of the dying protagonist.=0A>=0A>= In Godard's Pierrot le fou, Belmondo wants to be a writer, and starts=0A> = writing--=0A>=0A> there are a great many versions made in several languages= of Knut=0A> Hamsun's great autobiographical HUNGER--literally about a "sta= rving=0A> writer"--=0A>=0A> An interesting aspect of (real and fictional) w= riters in film is that=0A> they are included in the action and developments= of characters--as a=0A> device, a commentator, an investigator, an instiga= tor, a prompter, a=0A> spy--the writer becomes a link between the audience= and the action on=0A> screen--provided extra details, connections between = characters and=0A> sub-plots--=0A> riffing of the scenes with their own per= sonal imaginings and=0A> speculations--=0A>=0A> The writer is perceived so = to speak by/within many films as an=0A> observer within the observing and o= bserved field of visions of=0A> characters and audiences both. The writer = is the "private eye"=0A> exploring for those "inquiring minds who want to k= now"--in many cases=0A> hired by someone in the film--and in a sense, by th= e audience also,=0A> which has paid for admission and now demands a good re= turn on the=0A> investment.=0A>=0A> The greatest example of a writer as man= y of these aspects in film may=0A> be thought of as Shakespeare's RICHARD T= HE THIRD--since Richard=0A> basically speaks his "writing" of the action --= ahead of time--to the=0A> audience--and then proceeds to act out the scenes= --the writer becoming=0A> an actor who is simultaneously directing the scen= e unknown to the=0A> other characters who now make their entrances accordin= g to his script,=0A> right on cue, and "follow his direction to the letter"= in the most=0A> literal ways. All of which Richard can afterwards share a= s a good=0A> laugh with his reader/audience=0A>=0A> Since a lot of American= writers had been involved with journalism, and=0A> had done from time to t= ime pulp writing also--it was an easy move when=0A> many of these multi-gen= red, multi-professional writers worked in=0A> Hollywood to insert the chara= cter of a writer=0A> In many films noir, one finds a character, either a ne= wspaper=0A> reporter, a writer-wanna-be or a screen play writer--often as t= he=0A> person who plays the part of the narrator, or a commentator on the= =0A> action--=0A>=0A> Or the writer--because a professional practitioner of= fictions,=0A> lies--may be the "suspect" as in the Humphrey Bogart film in= which he=0A> plays a violence-prone screen writer.=0A>=0A> For example, In= Billy Wilder's Sunset Boulevard, the Bill Holden=0A> character is a screen= play writer--=0A>=0A> In the 1948 version of Robert Penn Warren's All the K= ing's Men with=0A> Broderick Crawford, a reporter turned speech writer and = PR man is one=0A> of the main characters--hauled along to be the observer--= =0A>=0A> Newspaper reporters were featured in many screwball comedies--two= =0A> versions each of My Girl Friday and Ball of Fire for example--=0A> All= the Presidents Men--investigative reporting--=0A>=0A> Naked Lunch features= its author Bill Burroughs as his own=0A> character-(an actor playing Bill = "playing"=0A> fictionally/autobiographically himself--)-within both his wri= tings=0A> being made--and within the film being made of his writings--=0A>= =0A> One could go on and on and on-getting lost---into the labyrinths of=0A= > Borgesian libraries of decaying films in cannisters containing the=0A> "l= ives of writers," "the days and nights of the poets," the tragic and=0A> co= mic melodramas of authors real and imaginary, famous and forgotten .=0A> . = .=0A> ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 06:23:25 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Cunningham Subject: Re: " poetry . . .as well written as prose" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A good subject for discussion, Luke, as in 'what is poetry?'. [As an aside, I believe that the English language has done itself a disservice by not incorporating the inverse question mark and exclamation mark as has been included in the Spanish language. This grammatical convention serves to indicate where in the sentence the question or excitement starts recognizing as it does that not the entire sentence is necessarily the question or excitement.] It is unfortunate, Luke, that you did not state your opinion as to what Pound meant. I have always viewed Pound's statement as his manifesto against Romantic era poetry with its high-blown hyperbole and its clashing (as in the sound symbols make when slapped together) climaxes. Possibly also a reaction against rhyme, as used by the Romantics, in the sense that an overemphasis on rhyme distorted/contorted language in order to achieve its effect. It may also have been his recognition of the superior poetics of Marianne Moore whom Pound held in very high regard. If we accept William Carlos Williams' criticism of Pound's language as being a failed attempt to construct an American language (Williams also viewed Eliot as a traitor to America for Eliot's acceptance of the British 'accent' in his writing foregoing his native Americanism), this failed attempt was to construct a poetic language based on prose. It is evident from the poetic language Williams' used that he agreed with Pound as to the necessity for constructing an American poetry based on the American idiom, he just didn't feel that Pound succeeded at this. John Cunningham -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Luke Schlueter Sent: December 6, 2007 8:04 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: " poetry . . .as well written as prose" Hi, Luke Schlueter here. I'm new to this listserv having happily stumbled upon it as I was looking for a forum to discuss poetics. I embarked upon this search with a specific purpose in mind. In a letter to Harriet Monroe Ezra Pound famously stated that "poetry should be as well written as prose." I use the line in an academic paper I'm writing having to do with the poetry of Stephen Dunn, but it occurred to me that I am basing my use of Pound's statement on an assumption about what Pound meant, which may be entirely wrong. I would be very interested, then, to hear what some of you may have so say about the set of historical/cultural/aesthetic assumptions underlying Pound's statement. What were the specific conditions of poetry and prose that he was responding to? What excellence did he imagine prose to enacting, and what lack of excellence poetry? Who were some prose writers he had in mind? Was he thinking of essayists? or novelists? Or both? So we'll see if this topic has legs. Best, Luke No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.17/1176 - Release Date: 06/12/2007 11:15 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.17/1176 - Release Date: 06/12/2007 11:15 PM ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 07:25:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: Great videos of music or poetry? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Hi Everyone, Every morning I'm posting videos of music and (when possible) poetry from a= round the world as part of a project "Around the World in 80 Days" to: http://garysullivan.blogspot.com Since I began, a friend has made some great suggestions about videos from o= ne upcoming country that I would never have otherwise known about. So I thought I would ask all of you: Do you know of anything really amazing= from one of the countries listed below? It has to be something I can embed= into the blog itself. I'm particularly interested in live readings of poetry and in creating an a= ccurately diverse snapshot of each place to the extent that's possible. Send URLs to me at: gpsullivan@hotmail.com Thanks! Gary LIST OF COUNTRIES Afghanistan Albania Algeria Angola Argentina Armenia Australia Bangladesh Bolivia Bosnia and Herzegovina Brazil Bulgaria Cambodia Cape Verde China Colombia C=F4te d'Ivoire Croatia Cuba Ecuador Egypt El Salvador Ethiopia Finland France Georgia Germany Greece Guatemala Guyana Haiti Honduras Hungary Iceland India Indonesia Iran Iraq Ireland Israel Italy Jamaica Japan Kazakhstan Kenya Korea, South Kuwait Lebanon Malaysia Mexico Mongolia Morocco Myanmar Nepal Nicaragua Nigeria Pakistan Peru Philippines Poland Portugal Romania Russia Senegal South Africa Sri Lanka Sweden Syria Thailand Trinidad and Tobago Tunisia Turkey United Kingdom United States Uzbekistan Venezuela Vietnam Western Sahara Yemen Zimbabwe _________________________________________________________________ Put your friends on the big screen with Windows Vista=AE + Windows Live=99. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/shop/specialoffers.mspx?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_C= PC_MediaCtr_bigscreen_102007= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 07:28:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: Highfill, Bloom, Dresser Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 words+music: Poet Mitch Highfill and musical duo Jane Ira Bloom and Mark Dresser perform. =09 Friday, December 14, 2007 6:30 - 8:00 pm at CUE Art Foundation 511 West 25th Street (between 10th & 11th Aves.) Admission is FREE. Reservations are required. Seating is reserved for members. Remaining seats on a first come first serv= e basis. To RSVP, please call 212-206-3583 or e-mail ryan.white@cueartfoundation.org MITCH HIGHFILL is the author of Rebis (Open Mouth Press, 2007), Koenig's Sp= here (Situations), The Blue Dahlia (Detour), Turn (Situations) and Liquid A= ffairs (United Artists Books, 1995). His work has appeared in Combo, The Po= ker, Gallery Works and other magazines, as well as the anthology, Heights o= f the Marvelous (St. Martin's, 2000). A new book is forthcoming from Abraha= m Lincoln Book Shop, Inc., Moth Light. Over the years, he has coordinated r= eadings at Ear Inn, 10 Leonard Street, The Tompkins Square Public Library a= nd Poetry Project at St. Mark's Church in New York. He co-edited the 1980's= magazine, Red Weather and edited the Poetry Project Newsletter in 1996. He= lives in Brooklyn with his wife, the poet Kimberly Lyons and their son, Ja= ckson. JANE IRA BLOOM has been steadfastly developing her unique voice on the sopr= ano saxophone for over 30 years and is a pioneer in the use of live electro= nics and movement in jazz. Her continuing commitment to "pushing the envelo= pe" in her music has led to collaborations with such outstanding jazz artis= ts as Kenny Wheeler, Charlie Haden, Julian Priester and Fred Hersch. She ha= s performed at such diverse venues as Carnegie Hall, The Museum of Modern A= rt and the Cathedral of St. John the Divine in New York. In 2007 she was aw= arded a Guggenheim Fellowship in music composition and was the first musici= an ever commissioned by the NASA Art Program. She has recorded and produced= albums of her music dating from 1977 to present and has been featured on n= umerous television programs and publications. She is currently on the facul= ty of The New School for Jazz & Contemporary Music in New York City. MARK DRESSER has been composing and performing the solo contrabass and ense= mble music professionally throughout the world since 1972. His current coll= aborative projects include the trio, C/D/E, master drummer Andrew Cyrille a= nd with multi-reed player virtuoso, Marty Ehrlich; a duo, trio and quartet = with hyperpianist, Denman Maroney; a duo with celebrated trombonist Ray And= erson and others. Commissions include "Resomance" for Quarter tone flutes a= nd String Quarter written for Matthias Ziegler (2004) and "The Five Outer P= lanets" for amplified contrabass written for the sculptures of Robert Tapli= n. A chapter of his extended techniques for contrabass, "A Personal Pedagog= y," appears in the book ARCANA (Granary Books, 2000). He has performed and = recorded over one hundred CDs with numerous artists and was nominated for a= 2003 Grammy for the performance of Osvaldo Golijov's CD, Yiddishbbuk. He h= as lectured around the world and is currently a professor of music at Unive= rsity of California, San Diego. other events: Saturday, January 5, 2007, 12:00 - 6:00pm Current CUE artist-in-residence Colin McMullan will be hosting an open stud= io, welcoming visitors to meet him and view samples of his work. The studio= is located on the lower level of the foundation. CUE Art Foundation 511 West 25th Street New York, New York 10001 _________________________________________________________________ Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.Download today it's FREE= ! http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_Wave2_sharelife_1120= 07= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 07:42:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: CA Conrad Subject: The young shooter of Omaha... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline The young shooter of Omaha is mentioned with such statements by reporters, "We're such a violent nation," true, but then they go on with comparisons to Virginia Tech, or Columbine. Which makes sense. But shouldn't they also be saying, "Yes, look at what we're doing in Iraq!" "We're such a violent nation, I mean look at what we're doing in Iraq! Almost a million people dead!" No one says this. It's taboo. CAConrad http://PhillySound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 06:23:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Alexander Subject: Re: " poetry . . .as well written as prose" In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Pound generally thought that, at least since Flaubert, prose writers, or the best of them, were writing work that was harder, less wasteful, less caught up in "filling the measure," than poetry. From Flaubert through Henry James to James Joyce, he thought prose was the thing. He did not much care for any 19th Century poetry until perhaps Yeats, though the very young Pound had an affinity for Swinburne, and he certainly had push/pull relationships with the work of Whitman & Browning. He genuinely seemed to admire the work of Thomas Hardy, though I'm not sure if he admired him more as a prose writer or poet. In terms Pound would develop for his values in poetry (such as in his essay, "The Hard and Soft in French Poetry"), he felt those values to be more evident in the best prose of the preceding century. charles alexander chax press chax@theriver.com 650 e. ninth st. tucson arizona 8505 520 620 1626 On Dec 6, 2007, at 7:03 PM, Luke Schlueter wrote: > Hi, Luke Schlueter here. I'm new to this listserv having happily > stumbled upon it as I was looking for a forum to discuss poetics. > > I embarked upon this search with a specific purpose in mind. In a > letter to Harriet Monroe Ezra Pound famously stated that "poetry > should be as well written as prose." I use the line in an academic > paper I'm writing having to do with the poetry of Stephen Dunn, but > it occurred to me that I am basing my use of Pound's statement on > an assumption about what Pound meant, which may be entirely wrong. > > I would be very interested, then, to hear what some of you may have > so say about the set of historical/cultural/aesthetic assumptions > underlying Pound's statement. What were the specific conditions of > poetry and prose that he was responding to? What excellence did he > imagine prose to enacting, and what lack of excellence poetry? Who > were some prose writers he had in mind? Was he thinking of > essayists? or novelists? Or both? > > So we'll see if this topic has legs. > > Best, > Luke > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 13:26:40 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Fernandes Subject: Re: " poetry . . .as well written as prose" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hi Luke Well, I don't know, really, what Pound meant and in what circumstances he said that. But I know someone who might have knew that and, in fact, expanded a little that Pound's frase. George Oppen, added to it: "... it should also be as good as dead silence." Cheers David 2007/12/7, Luke Schlueter : > > Hi, Luke Schlueter here. I'm new to this listserv having happily stumbled > upon it as I was looking for a forum to discuss poetics. > > I embarked upon this search with a specific purpose in mind. In a letter > to Harriet Monroe Ezra Pound famously stated that "poetry should be as well > written as prose." I use the line in an academic paper I'm writing having > to do with the poetry of Stephen Dunn, but it occurred to me that I am > basing my use of Pound's statement on an assumption about what Pound meant, > which may be entirely wrong. > > I would be very interested, then, to hear what some of you may have so say > about the set of historical/cultural/aesthetic assumptions underlying > Pound's statement. What were the specific conditions of poetry and prose > that he was responding to? What excellence did he imagine prose to > enacting, and what lack of excellence poetry? Who were some prose writers > he had in mind? Was he thinking of essayists? or novelists? Or both? > > So we'll see if this topic has legs. > > Best, > Luke > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 06:12:21 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: print on demand In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thanks very much to all who responded on and off the list concerning print-on-demand options. Offlist, someone had good things to say about Trafford. Trafford is in my town. So in addition to BookMobile.com, will also be looking at Trafford. As Mark mentioned, the benefits of a local publisher can be important--if they can handle colour vispo well and aren't too cookie cutter. Will also be looking at these URLs--thanks Andrew. http://bookmobile.com http://www.instantpublisher.com/howitworks.htm http://www.go-publish-yourself.com/ http://www.iuniverse.com/index.htm http://www2.xlibris.com/ http://trafford.com/ ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 14:36:57 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barry Schwabsky Subject: Re: " poetry . . .as well written as prose" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pound got his dictum from Ford Madox Hueffer (subsequently Ford). In his ob= it for Ford, he wrote that "for the ten years before I got to England there= would seem to have been no one but Ford who held that French clarity and s= implicity in the writing of English verse and prose were of immense importa= nce as in contrast to the use of a stilted traditional dialect, a 'language= of verse' unused in the actual talk of the people, even of 'the best peopl= e', for the expression of reality and emotion." Thus, "prose" here means, e= ssentially, the tradition of Flaubert, and the condition of poetry he was r= esponding to was that of late Victorian verse--he specifically mentions Rob= ert Bridges and "the useful, but monotonous, in their day unduly neglected,= as more recently unduly touted, metrical labours of G. Manley Hopkins." An= d he also mentions his own early efforts, "when my third volume displayed m= e trapped, fly-papered, gummed and strapped downin a jejune provincial effort to learn...the stiled language that then passed for 'goo= d English' in the arthritic milieu that held control of the respected Briti= sh critical circles."=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Luke Schl= ueter =0ATo: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU= =0ASent: Friday, 7 December, 2007 2:03:45 AM=0ASubject: " poetry . . .as we= ll written as prose"=0A=0AHi, Luke Schlueter here. I'm new to this listser= v having happily stumbled upon it as I was looking for a forum to discuss p= oetics. =0A=0AI embarked upon this search with a specific purpose in mind.= In a letter to Harriet Monroe Ezra Pound famously stated that "poetry sho= uld be as well written as prose." I use the line in an academic paper I'm = writing having to do with the poetry of Stephen Dunn, but it occurred to me= that I am basing my use of Pound's statement on an assumption about what P= ound meant, which may be entirely wrong.=0A=0AI would be very interested, t= hen, to hear what some of you may have so say about the set of historical/c= ultural/aesthetic assumptions underlying Pound's statement. What were the = specific conditions of poetry and prose that he was responding to? What ex= cellence did he imagine prose to enacting, and what lack of excellence poet= ry? Who were some prose writers he had in mind? Was he thinking of essayi= sts? or novelists? Or both? =0A=0ASo we'll see if this topic has legs.=0A= =0ABest,=0ALuke ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 06:38:15 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: The Other Side of the Mirror: Bob Dylan Live at the Newport Folk Festival, 1963-65 - Trailer - Showtimes - Cast - Movies - New York Times MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline http://movies.nytimes.com/movie/451347/The-Other-Side-of-the-Mirror-Bob-Dylan-Live-at-the-Newport-Folk-Festival-1963-65/overview --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 09:55:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: print on demand In-Reply-To: <84DF409C-CBFD-4608-95E4-F99B903B3203@theriver.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed This seems to be an endless discussion among publishers. I printed at books with most of the Michigan short-run houses, including Thomson-Shore. Like Bookmobile (I did one book with them) and Sterling-Pierce, they all have difficulty hitting the spine spot-on--if the cover is colored and the spine white there's often a sliver of color at the edge of the spine. Any mechanized binder seems to have that problem. Thomson-Shore delivered 1200 copies of one book with a small tear on the bpttom of every spine--an unnoticed spot of glue on the guillotine, they said. I had to fight with them to redo the book, and had to wait three weeks to get the new press run. Sterling-Pierce screwed up the color for the cover of Charles' book--they failed to follow their own proof. A personnel problem. They cheerfully redid the book in two days. And I don't think Charles is unhappy with the book's appearance. Most of us know Sterling's work--they handle all but first printings of a lot of the major houses, incluuding, as I understand, New Directions. The only printer about whom I have no reservations is Friessens. Thoroughly professional, great quality control. I haven't used them for POD, but I suspect they're just as good at it. And they can do any kind of binding in-house. But local access trumps all that for me, and the personal relationship that comes with it: if I have a problem with a proof I talk directly with the guy on the computer who was responsible for generating it. Digital printing (which we all lazily refer to as POD) still carries a bad rep from its early days, when the binding was truly lousy and the colors were unpredictable. The technology, and, at good houses, the level of care, has improved enormously. It probably will continue to do so, and choices will broaden. My guess is that in ten years it will have largely replaced all but the art-book quality offset houses like Steinour and Meriden, which few of us use because we can't afford them. Mark At 04:08 PM 12/6/2007, you wrote: >I agree with mIEKAL about bookmobile.com and Nicole Baxter. >bookmobile.com DOES have an agreement with a book fulfillment >service, too, if you're short on time to handle sales/distribution >yourself. I haven't tried that but have been thinking about it, >particularly as our new studio has precious little space even for a >few more boxes of inventory. And even with print-on-demand, I like to >have a couple of hundred or more books on hand whenever possible. I >have to say that sometimes the binding used at bookmobile.com makes >the book look a little wobbly near the spine, although generally this >flattens/settles with time, and seems to be less true with books of >more than 150 pages or so. Also, one disappointment I've had (and >because of it, I haven't tried it in a couple of years) is with the >matte finish books at bookmobile.com. That said, I still think >they're the best of the print-on-demand manufacturers of which I >know. But I certainly haven't tried all that many companies. I do >agree with Kyle that their quality is not as impressive as books from >good traditional offset printer/binders. Our last book was printed by >Thomson-Shore, and one of our next books is being printed there as >well, and the difference is definitely worth talking about. But >bookmobile.com is certainly good enough that we will consider them >for just about all of our projects, particularly anything in a print >run of 500 or fewer. > >charles alexander >chax press >chax@theriver.com >650 e. ninth st. >tucson arizona 8505 >520 620 1626 > > > > >On Dec 6, 2007, at 11:13 AM, mIEKAL aND wrote: > >>Working with bookmobile.com via Nicole Baxter has been an absolute >>pleasure. They also have a wider choice of papers, cover stock & >>finish etc. The finished books are a much higher quality product >>than lulu. For runs over 50 copies they will also be much cheaper >>than lulu. bookmobile.com however doesn't have the online >>marketing aspect that places like booksurge, lulu & cafepress... & >>ditto what Kyle says about lulu's tech support. >> >>~mIEKAL >> >> >> >> >>On Dec 6, 2007, at 9:24 AM, Kyle Schlesinger wrote: >> >>>Lulu is okay if everything goes well but their tech support is >>>worthless. >>>When I called to ask which default font they used to stamp the >>>spines of >>>their hardcovers (no option to have a die made) they told me 'it's >>>a normal >>>font.' 'A what?' 'You know, just a normal font.' Okay. >>> >>>There were also some issues with the color correction for the >>>dustjacket of >>>the same book and they told me the only way to get the color right >>>was trial >>>and error at my expense, in other words, keep ordering copies of >>>your book >>>and randomly adjust the color until it looks right. No proofs >>>available. >>> >>>Like Jim, I would be interested in hearing some testimony from other >>>publishers or reading some Consumer Reportish articles about POD. >>>I like the >>>idea, but haven't seen quality that competes with traditional >>>printers and >>>binders. >>> >>>Cheers, >>> >>>Kyle >>>www.kyleschlesinger.com >>>www.cuneiformpress.com >>>www.cuneiformpress.blogspot.com >>> >>> >>> >>>>From: Jim Andrews >>>>Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >>>>Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 03:44:19 -0800 >>>>To: >>>>Subject: print on demand >>>> >>>>I am contemplating using a print-on-demand service. To publish >>>>books and >>>>sell them over the net. >>>> >>>>I'm a newbie. >>>> >>>>Of course one hears Lulu is widely used. Does this seem to be the >>>>best >>>>option or are there better ones? >>>> >>>>Any resources available to decide how to proceed on this? For >>>>instance, >>>>forums on deciding which company to go with? >>>> >>>>If you are involved yourself in print-on-demand, do you have >>>>advice on how >>>>to proceed? >>>> >>>>Thanks, >>>>ja >>>>http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 07:03:23 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: "Louis Pasteur is born!" (Creeley on biopics)/no writers In-Reply-To: <1dec21ae0712061803r5f635451x12451d580a469443@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The best recent (current) film I know about a writer and writing is called "Starting In The Evening". It's about an imaginary writer but Frank Langella's performance as the elderly, out of print novelist who is rediscovered by a young graduate student should win him an academy award. This is a great film, it just opened recently, and it made me cry, something I never do at movies. See it, if you can. Regards, Tom Savage Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: David, Your list is absolutely breathtaking, and your analyses of Richard the Third and the writer as the script writer and director, directing the audience, even more. All the while, I was wondering when you'll get to Naked Lunch with the type-wrier from out of space. You made it in the last paragraph. What about Under the Volcano or Moby Dick (Call me Ishmael, the narrator begins) or The Great Gatsby or Dashiell Hammet's Continental Ops series? Or, Andre Gide's The Counterfeiters? Ciao, Murat On Dec 6, 2007 3:47 PM, David Chirot wrote: > There have been a great many movies made "about" writers and their > bios, myths, personae, just not very many good ones. > > (this is excluding for the moment documentaries of which there are > many very good ones.) > > A good film was made of Stevie Smith's life, part of it--with Glenda > Jackson giving an excellent performance. The film of Tom and Viv-- Mr > T S Eliot and his first wife--i thought fairly good. > > Reds for example--Warren Beatty's intended "sweeping" epic life of > John Reed (Ten Days that Shook the World, he also wrote poetry) had > also Jack Nicholson playing Eugene O'Neil > . > Then there are the Hemingway semi-bios like Islands in the Stream > with as i recall George C Scott. Biopics like Last Time I Saw Paris > based on Scott and Zelda Fitzgerald, a bad old swashbuckler one on > life of Villon, the Rimbaud-Verlaine one with Leo di Caprio, Barfly > based on Bukowski, Capote which won lot of awards for performance, a > couple bad ones i have seen on the life/lives of the Brontes, others > from the blurred pop culture images of the writings and life of Edgar > Poe, basically the ghostly after effects of Classics comics versions > of him, entertaining in a luridly filmed way,. > I remember dimly an old french film on the life of Jules Verne that was > fun. > > Ring Lardner, in Eight Men Out, played by John Sayles, the film's > director, and very well, as an amazingly resemblance > > The really good films about writers tend to be of mythical or dream > poets like Cocteau's ORPHEE which had such a huge influence on Jack > Spicer, as well as Cocteau's much earlier classic, le Sang d'un poete. > (Blood of a Poet) > > > And let's not forget a great film (screenplay differing bit from the > book, both by Graham Greene)--THE THIRD MAN--a great film featuring a > writer of Westerns (Joseph Cotten as Holly Martins) in search of an > old friend--(Orson Welles--also sought after via Cotten in Citizen > Kane)-- > > In Clint Eastwood's Unforgiven--a main character is a writer of the > trashy tales of "legendary" outlaws and gunslingers, whom the brutal > Gene Hackman takes under his wing --to chronicle a "real life" > gunslinger at work-- > > In Kurosawa's great IKIRU (To Live) there is the --again--writer of > pulp fiction, a kindhearted gaunt poete maudit type, who becomes the > friend of the dying protagonist. > > In Godard's Pierrot le fou, Belmondo wants to be a writer, and starts > writing-- > > there are a great many versions made in several languages of Knut > Hamsun's great autobiographical HUNGER--literally about a "starving > writer"-- > > An interesting aspect of (real and fictional) writers in film is that > they are included in the action and developments of characters--as a > device, a commentator, an investigator, an instigator, a prompter, a > spy--the writer becomes a link between the audience and the action on > screen--provided extra details, connections between characters and > sub-plots-- > riffing of the scenes with their own personal imaginings and > speculations-- > > The writer is perceived so to speak by/within many films as an > observer within the observing and observed field of visions of > characters and audiences both. The writer is the "private eye" > exploring for those "inquiring minds who want to know"--in many cases > hired by someone in the film--and in a sense, by the audience also, > which has paid for admission and now demands a good return on the > investment. > > The greatest example of a writer as many of these aspects in film may > be thought of as Shakespeare's RICHARD THE THIRD--since Richard > basically speaks his "writing" of the action --ahead of time--to the > audience--and then proceeds to act out the scenes--the writer becoming > an actor who is simultaneously directing the scene unknown to the > other characters who now make their entrances according to his script, > right on cue, and "follow his direction to the letter" in the most > literal ways. All of which Richard can afterwards share as a good > laugh with his reader/audience > > Since a lot of American writers had been involved with journalism, and > had done from time to time pulp writing also--it was an easy move when > many of these multi-genred, multi-professional writers worked in > Hollywood to insert the character of a writer > In many films noir, one finds a character, either a newspaper > reporter, a writer-wanna-be or a screen play writer--often as the > person who plays the part of the narrator, or a commentator on the > action-- > > Or the writer--because a professional practitioner of fictions, > lies--may be the "suspect" as in the Humphrey Bogart film in which he > plays a violence-prone screen writer. > > For example, In Billy Wilder's Sunset Boulevard, the Bill Holden > character is a screenplay writer-- > > In the 1948 version of Robert Penn Warren's All the King's Men with > Broderick Crawford, a reporter turned speech writer and PR man is one > of the main characters--hauled along to be the observer-- > > Newspaper reporters were featured in many screwball comedies--two > versions each of My Girl Friday and Ball of Fire for example-- > All the Presidents Men--investigative reporting-- > > Naked Lunch features its author Bill Burroughs as his own > character-(an actor playing Bill "playing" > fictionally/autobiographically himself--)-within both his writings > being made--and within the film being made of his writings-- > > One could go on and on and on-getting lost---into the labyrinths of > Borgesian libraries of decaying films in cannisters containing the > "lives of writers," "the days and nights of the poets," the tragic and > comic melodramas of authors real and imaginary, famous and forgotten . > . . > --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 07:05:21 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: Kerouac event NYC In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20071206195700.06a1ebb8@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit What is the date of this event, please? Mark Weiss wrote: In celebration of the 50th anniversary of the publication of On the Road, Simon Pettet and Michael Lally will read from both the "official" and the newly-published scroll versions. Rare recordings of the man himself will also be played. 7 p.m. at The Open Center, 83 Spring Street, admission $10. --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 07:42:16 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Shad Marsh Subject: Zappa/The Mother's of Invention make fun of Dylan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Its on Sheik Yerbouti > There's an album where Zappa makes fun of Dylan's harmonica playing, a > cheap shot, but hilarious. Does anyone remember it? & speaking of Zappa, > he'd make an excellent subject for a biopic. > > Shad Marsh 48 Raliegh Rd Asheville, NC 28803 828.712.8539 http://shad-marsh.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 13:10:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: susan maurer Subject: RAPTOR RHAPSODY MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My latest RAPTOR RHAPSODY is now available at Robbin's Bookstore in Phillie= as well as St.Marks in ny aand form the publisher. Susan maurer _________________________________________________________________ Your smile counts. The more smiles you share, the more we donate.=A0 Join i= n. www.windowslive.com/smile?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_Wave2_oprsmilewlhmtagline= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 13:15:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: susan maurer Subject: unbidden correspondence MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable having recently received a great response from someone famous to something = i sent him out of the blue i am curious what others experiences have been w= ith doing this. i know often mail that others have sent me unasked works ou= t to be problematic (now what do i do). what about you guys? susan maurer _________________________________________________________________ You keep typing, we keep giving. Download Messenger and join the i=92m Init= iative now. http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=3DTAGLM= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 18:18:05 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barry Schwabsky Subject: Re: Reviews at Jacket MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Congratulations, Mark. It's a wonderful book. Although I've never studied S= panish, I am sufficiently familiar with other romance languages to be able = to usefully compare the translation with the facing text, and I can see tha= t you have really worked on these renderings, which are neither "free" on t= he one hand nor literal on the other, but beautufully thought through.=0A= =0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Mark Weiss =0ATo: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=0ASent: Thursday, 6 December, 2007 9:= 51:05 PM=0ASubject: Reviews at Jacket=0A=0ATwo reviews at Jacket of Stet: S= elected Poems, by =0AJos=C3=A9 Kozer, with my translations, one by Eugenia = =0ADemuro =0Ahttp://jacketmagazine.com/34/demuro-kozer.shtml, =0Athe other = by Christopher Leland Winks =0Ahttp://jacketmagazine.com/34/winks-kozer.sht= ml. =0AThe book is available from junctionpress.com, or, =0Ato take advanta= ge of 20% discount to the list, backchannel to me.=0A=0AMark ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 13:39:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Boog City 46 Print and Online PDF Editions Available Comments: To: "UB Poetics discussion group "@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Please forward --------------------- Hi all, The print edition of Boog City 46 will be available tomorrow (Saturday). Yo= u can read the pdf version now at: http://welcometoboogcity.com/boogpdfs/bc46.pdf Thanks, David -------------------- Boog City 46, New York City Small Presses Issue =20 The issue features pages put together by six of New York City's finest smal= l presses. It is in conjunction with a Tues. Dec. 18, 6:00 p.m. levy lives event at ACA Galleries, 529 W.20th St., 5th Flr., featuring readers from each of the presses' authors. Inside the issue are pages from the below presses with work from some of their authors: **Belladonna Books --Latasha N. Nevada Diggs --R. Erica Doyle **Cuneiform Press --Ted Greenwald **Cy Gist Press --Scott Glassman --Carrie Hunter --Ben Mazer --Guillermo Parra --Sandra Simonds **Futurepoem Books --Jill Magi **Kitchen Press --Ana Bozicevic-Bowling --Lily Brown --Elisa Gabbert --Mathias Svalina --Chris Tonelli **Portable Press @ Yo-Yo Labs --Sueyeun Juliette Lee --Nathaniel Siegel --Christopher Stackhouse =20 ----- =20 Please patronize our advertiser: =20 Bowery Poetry Club * http://www.bowerypoetry.com ----- =20 Advertising or donation inquiries can be directed to editor@boogcity.com or by calling 212-842-BOOG (2664) =20 ----- =20 2,250 copies of Boog City are distributed among, and available for free at, the following locations: =20 MANHATTAN =20 *THE EAST VILLAGE* =20 Acme Underground Anthology Film Archives Bluestockings Bowery Poetry Club Caf=E9 Pick Me Up Cakeshop Lakeside Lounge Life Caf=E9 Living Room Mission Caf=E9 Nuyorican Poets Caf=E9 Other Music Pianos St. Mark's Books St. Mark's Church Shakespeare & Co. Sidewalk Caf=E9 Sunshine Theater Trash and Vaudeville =20 *OTHER PARTS OF MANHATTAN* =20 Angelika Film Center and Caf=E9 Hotel Chelsea Mercer Street Books =20 BROOKLYN =20 *WILLIAMSBURG* =20 Academy Records Bliss Caf=E9 Galapagos Sideshow Gallery Soundfix/Fix Cafe Spoonbill & Sugartown Supercore Caf=E9 =20 *GREENPOINT* (available mid-week) =20 Greenpoint Coffee House Lulu's Photoplay Thai Cafe The Pencil Factory =20 -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 11:25:21 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jennifer Karmin Subject: JOB: Gettysburg College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit DEPARTMENT OF ENGLISH -- EMERGING WRITER LECTURER Gettysburg College: One-year appointment, beginning August 2008, for a creative writer who plans a career that involves college-level teaching, to teach three courses per semester, including Introduction to Creative Writing and an advanced course in the writer's genre, as well as assist with departmental writing activities. Mentorship for teaching and assistance in professional development provided. M.A., with a concentration in creative writing, M.F.A., or Ph.D. with creative dissertation, required. Teaching experience and literary magazine publications are essential. Competitive salary. To apply, send letter of application, c.v., the names of three references, and a 5-10 page writing sample to Prof. Fred Leebron, Department of English, Box 397, Gettysburg College, 300 N. Washington St., Gettysburg, PA 17325, postmarked by January 26, 2008. Gettysburg College is a highly selective liberal arts college located within 90 minutes of the Washington/Baltimore metropolitan area. Established in 1832, the College has a rich history and is situated on a 220-acre campus with an enrollment of over 2,600 students. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 11:43:35 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rod Smith Subject: New @ Bridge Street: Collected Whalen, Selected Mac Low, Zukofsky biography, bpNichol, Jess, Dark Brandon DVD, Sharma, Contemporary Poetics, Cornell, &&& MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii We thank you profusely because you profusely support Bridge Street Books. Ordering and discount information at the end of this post. CONTEMPORARY POETICS, ed Louis Armand, Northwestern, 395 pgs, $29.95. Bernstein, Perloff, Nolan, Theall, Perelman, Critchley, Huppatz, Delville and Norris, Nirenberg, Sutherland, Andrews, de Campos, Tofts, UImer, Miller, Wark, Sondheim, McCaffery, & Fisher. DARK BRANDON, Brandon Downing, Grievous Pictures, DVD 116 minutes, $14.99. THE Flarf movie! Just in time for the holidays! Get one for every assclown on your list! JOSEPH CORNELL'S DREAMS, ed w/ intro by Catherine Corman, Exact Change, 144 pgs, $15.95. Dream selections from Cornell's diaries. "field mouse / dream of mouse / live coals walking right into them unscathed" JESS: TO AND FROM THE PRINTED PAGE, Ingrid Schaffner, Prologue by John Ashbery, Essay by Lisa Jarnot, Independent Curators Intl, 112 pgs, color illustrations throughout, $29.95. "Only the inscrutable amuses." AWE, Dorothy Lasky, Wave, 76 pgs, $14. "He was actually part bunny and part man." THING OF BEAUTY: NEW AND SELECTED WORKS, Jackson Mac Low, ed Anne Tardos, U Cal, cloth 460 pgs, $34.95. A generous, beautifully set selection of Mac Low's work from 1937 - 2004. "THE MOSSES TURN TOWARD THE LIGHT. / THE FLOWERS TURN TOWARD THE LIGHT. / THE TREES TURN TOWARD THE LIGHT." A VOCABULARY OF THINKING: GERTRUDE STEIN AND CONTEMPORARY AMERICAN INNOVATIVE WOMEN'S POETRY, Deborah M. Mix, U. Iowa, cloth 218 pgs, $39.95. Maps a reading of Stein's writing as vocabulary, rather than lexicon, in relation to the work of Mullen, Marlatt, Hejinian, & Hak Kyung Cha. O CADOIRO, Erin Moure, Anansi, 136 pgs, $13.95. "Cataract I see you!" THE ALPHABET GAME: A bpNICHOL READER, ed Darren Wershler-Henry and Lori Emerson, Coach House, 336 pgs, $18.95. "we have moved beyond belief / into a moon that is no longer there" GEORGE OPPEN AND THE FATE OF MODERNISM, Peter Nicholls, cloth 230 pgs, $99. Expensive yes, but a nmajor study so had to mention here. THE UBERREADER: SELECTED WORKS OF AVITAL RONNELL, ed Diane Davis, U Illinois, 346 pgs, $30. "Why is the body prepared for drugs?" INFAMOUS LANDSCAPES, Prageeta Sharma, Fence, 68 pgs, $15. "We crashed and burned, so what now?" LINGOS I - IX, Ulf Stolterfoht, trans Rosmarie Waldrop, Burning Deck, 126 pgs, $14. "let us picture the thinker then: as a young beast." THE COLLECTED POEMS OF PHILIP WHALEN, ed Michael Rothenberg, Wesleyan, cloth 872 pgs, $49.95. "The poems and the writing all are yours." THE POEM OF A LIFE: A BIOGRAPHY OF LOUIS ZUKOFSKY, Mark Scroggins, Shoemaker & Hoard, cloth 572 pgs, $30. SOME BESTSELLERS: NOTES FROM THE AIR: SELECTED LATER POEMS, John Ashbery, Ecco, cloth 364 pgs, $34.95. ABOUT NOW: COLLECTED POEMS, Joanne Kyger, Natl Poetry Foundation, 798 pgs, $34.95. IN THE PINES, Alice Notley, Penguin, 132 pgs, $18 DEED, Rod Smith, U Iowa, 88 pgs, $16. NEXT LIFE, Rae Armantrout, Wesleyan, 80 pgs, $13.95. THE MIDDLE ROOM, Jennifer Moxley, Subpress, 633 pgs, $25. BEYOND BULLETS: THE SUPPRESSION OF DISSENT IN THE UNITED STATES, Jules Boykoff, AK Press, 464 pgs, $21.95. WOMEN, THE NEW YORK SCHOOL, AND OTHER ABSTRACTIONS, Maggie Nelson, U Iowa, cloth 296 pgs, $42.50. PROSE POEMS, Pierre Reverdy, trans Ron Padgett, Brooklyn Rail/Black Square, 64 pgs, $15. HORACE, Tim Atkins, O Books, 78 pgs, $12. DISPOSED, Steve Dickison, Post-Apollo, 54 pgs, $15. THE MARVELOUS BONES OF TIME, Brenda Coultas, Coffee House, 144 pgs, $15. THE MISSING OCCASION OF SAYING YES, Benjamin Friedlander, Subpress, 196 pgs, $16. COMPLEX SLEEP, Tony Tost, U Iowa, 108 pgs, $16. ED DORN LIVE: LECTURES, INTERVIEWS, AND OUTTAKES, ed Joseph Richey, U. Michigan, 174 pgs, $18.95. THRALL, Susan Gevirtz, Post-Apollo, 104 pgs, $15. JOHN ASHBERY AND YOU: HIS LATER BOOKS, John Emil Vincent, U Georgia, cloth 196 pgs, $32.95. WAR AND PEACE 3 --THE FUTURE--, ed Judith Goldman & Leslie Scalapino, O Books, 164 pgs, $14. SOULS OF THE LABADIE TRACT, Susan Howe, New Directions, 128 pgs, $16.95. 4 OR 5, P. Inman, interrupting cow, 28 pgs, $5. TODAY I WROTE NOTHING: THE SELECTED WRITINGS OF DANIIL KHARMS, ed & trans Matvei Yankelevich, Overlook, cloth 288 pgs, $35. ON THE EDGE: COLLECTED LONG POEMS, Kenneth Koch, Knopf, cloth 416 pgs, $35. COVERS, Susan Landers, O Books, 56 pgs, $12. ART AND REVOLUTION: TRANSVERSAL ACTIVISM IN THE LONG TWENTIETH CENTURY, Gerald Raunig, Semiotext(e), 320 pgs, $17.95. METEORIC FLOWERS, Elizabeth Willis, Wesleyan, 84 pgs, $13.95. New in paperback. TELEGRAPH, Kaya Oakes, Pavement Saw, 78 pgs, $14. HOW TO BE PERFECT, Ron Padgett, Coffee House, 114 pgs, $15. THE GRAND PIANO PART 3, Benson, Mandel, Harryman, Armantrout, Hejinian, Perelman, Watten, Pearson, Robinson, & Silliman, Mode A, 128 pgs, $12.95. SUDDEN ADDRESS: SELECTED LECTURES 1981-2006, Bill Berkson, Cuneiform, 110 pgs, $10. STARSDOWN, Jasper Bernes, ingirimusnoctetconsumimugi, 96 pgs, $13. PROFANATIONS, Giorgio Agamben, trans Jeff Fort, Zone, 104 pgs, cloth $25.95. OPEN BOX (IMPROVISATIONS), Carla Harryman, Belladonna, 88 pgs, $12. THINE INSTEAD THINK, Jeffrey Jullich, Harry Tankoos, 116 pgs, $15. THIN GLOVES, Deborah Meadows, Green Integer, 136 pgs, $12.95. LIP WOLF, Laura Solorzano, trans Jen Hofer, Action Books, 118 pgs, $14. HANNAH WEINER'S OPEN HOUSE, edited, with an introduction by Patrick Durgin, 180 pgs, $14.95. A BOOK OF PROPHECIES, John Wieners, Bootstrap, 140 pgs, $15. HUMAN RESOURCES, Rachel Zolf, Coach House, 96 pgs, $14.95. THE TRANSFORMATION, Juliana Spahr, Atelos, 230 pgs, $13.50. SWOON NOIR, Bruce Andrews, Chax, 136 pgs, $16. COLLECTED PROSE, Rae Armantrout, Singing Horse, 172 pgs, $17. THE AGE OF HUTS (COMPLEAT), Ron Silliman, U. Cal, 311 pgs, $19.95. DS (2), Kamau Brathwaite, New Directions, 266 pgs, $18.95. OUR FRIENDS WILL PASS AMONG YOU SILENTLY, Bill Berkson, Owl Press, 64 pgs, $14. CALLER AND OTHER PIECES, Tom Raworth, Edge, 48 pgs, $12.50. THE OUTERNATIONALE, Peter Gizzi, Wesleyan, cloth 112 pgs, $22.95. DAILY SONNETS, Laynie Browne, 164 pgs, $15.50. JAM ALERTS, Linh Dinh, Chax, 146 pgs, $16. ULULU, Thalia Field, Coffee House, 256 pgs, $25. FOLLY, Nada Gordon, Roof, 128 pgs, $13.95. A FIDDLE PULLED FROM THE THROAT OF A SPARROW, Noah Eli Gordon, New Issues, 96 pgs, $14. MY ANGIE DICKINSON, Michael Magee, Zasterlee, 80 pgs, $12.95.NINETEEN LINES: A DRAWING CENTER ANTHOLOGY, ed Lytle Shaw, DrawingCenter/Roof, 336 pgs, $24.95. I, AFTERLIFE: ESSAY IN MOURNING TIME, Kristin Prevallet, 66 pgs, $12.95. DAY OCEAN STATE OF STAR'S NIGHT: POEMS & WRITINGS 1989 & 1999-2006, Leslie Scalapino, Green Integer, 208 pgs, $17.95. KLUGE: A MEDITATION, Brian Kim Stefans, Roof, 128 pgs, $13.95. ORDERING INFORMATION: There are two ways to order: 1. E-mail your order to rod@bridgestreetbooks.com or aerialedge@gmail.com with your address & we will bill you with the books. or 2. via credit card-- you may call us at 202 965 5200 or e-mail w/ yr add, order, card #, & expiration date & we will send a receipt with the books. Please remember to include expiration date. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 21:36:34 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barry Schwabsky Subject: book reviews MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Not one but two reviews of interesting books in this week's Times Book Revi= ew: George Saunders on Daniil Kharms (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/09/boo= ks/review/Saunders-t.html?pagewanted=3D2&_r=3D1&8bu&emc=3Dbu_ and David Orr= on Michael O'Brien (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/09/books/review/Orr4-t.= html?8bu&emc=3Dbu). ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 15:20:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: MESSAGE-ID field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: Mark Weiss Subject: Kerouac event NYC tonight Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed The event celebrating On the Road will be tonight, at 7 p.m. at The Open Center, 83 Spring Street. Admission $10. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 13:48:37 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Kerouac event// lots of rare/Kerouac vids & B-flick Beats at my blog this week Comments: cc: Mark Weiss MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline This week at my blogspot for fun i have been putting up lot of rare videos of Kerouac--one in Joual French, one with his Italian translator--lot of more obscure footage of him--along with Beats as they appeared in B-movies like Cormon's classic Bucket of Blood and other forgotten flicks--as well as music influenced by kerouac-including recent things from several countries--Rap, poetry in Italian, etc--and the Beatnik videos by Dre--(two of them--a journal)--plus lot of 50's JD flicks, switchbadae girls, old narcotics warning films, some of my favorite James Brown & Bo Diddleyand lots other things --Visual Poetry, Mail Art--Iranian Street art videos and images--much else--and more Visual Poetry journals going up in next days-- http://davidbaptistechirot.blogspot.com On Dec 6, 2007 4:57 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > In celebration of the 50th anniversary of the publication of On the > Road, Simon Pettet and Michael Lally will read from both the > "official" and the newly-published scroll versions. Rare recordings > of the man himself will also be played. > > 7 p.m. at The Open Center, 83 Spring Street, admission $10. > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 18:10:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "St. Thomasino" Subject: German composer Stockhausen is Dead Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed German composer Stockhausen is dead 12/7/2007, 1:54 p.m. EST The Associated Press BERLIN (AP) =97 Karlheinz Stockhausen, whose electronic works made him=20= one of Germany's most important postwar composers, has died, German=20 state broadcaster ZDF reported Friday. =A0He was 79.=A0 Stockhausen, who gained fame with avant-garde compositions in the 1960s=20= and '70s and later moved to huge music theater and other projects, died=20= Wednesday, ZDF said, citing the Stockhausen Music Foundation. =A0It gave=20= no cause of death.=A0 Stockhausen's electronic compositions are a radical departure from=20 musical tradition and incorporate influences as varied as psychology,=20 the visual arts and the acoustics of a particular concert hall.=A0 Stockhausen was born in the village of Moedrath near Cologne in western=20= Germany on Aug. 22, 1928. =A0His father was killed in World War II and=20= his mother also died, leaving him orphaned as a teenager.=A0 After completing his studies in musicology, philosophy and German=20 literature at the University of Cologne, he went on to study under=20 composer Olivier Messiaen in Paris from 1952 to 1953, where he also met=20= his French contemporary Pierre Boulez.=A0 Stockhausen wrote more than 280 works, including more than 140 pieces=20 of electronic or electro-acoustic music and brought out more than 100=20 different albums.=A0He was known for conducting nearly all of the=20 premiere performances of his works.=A0 The composer is survived by six children from two marriages. =A0Services=20= were not immediately announced.=A0 He provoked controversy in 2001 after describing the Sept. 11 attacks=20 as "the greatest work of art one can imagine" during a news conference=20= in the northern German city of Hamburger, where several of the=20 hijackers had lived.=A0The composer later apologized for his remarks, = but=20 the city still canceled performances of his works.=A0 posted by gregory vincent st. thomasino http://eratio.blogspot.com/ e=B7= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 19:43:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ric carfagna Subject: 20th Century Long Poems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello,=20 I was wondering if anyone would know what would be=20 considered the longest poem written in English in the 20th century.=20 Thanks,=20 Ric=20 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 18:41:39 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve russell Subject: quiet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I'm just curious. It's especially quiet on the listserv. I don't think I've recieved any post today. Is this a mistake? Does this ever happen? --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 21:53:42 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Potree Journal Subject: Second Dos Press Chapbook Now Available Comments: To: "Bewitjanus@aol.com" , marcia arrieta , "SLIDINGSCA@aol.com" , Arielle Greenberg , "r.farr@att.net" , Lisa Robertson , "bonjean@email.arizona.edu" , Anne Lendon Heide , derek beaulieu , Betsy Fagin , Jason Christie , Elizabeth Cross , Christine Hume , Joel Chace , crane giamo , claybanes@gmail.com, Danielle Pafunda , Dawn Pendergast , Elizabeth Treadwell , Elisa Gabbert , eric unger , Skip Fox , Francis Raven , Geoffrey Hlibchuk , Ofelia Hunt , Victoria Hsieh , Juliana Leslie , kate@kickingwind.com, Laura Navratil , linhdinh99@yahoo.com, Sheila Murphy , IJ Menchaca , Sara Veglahn , "Zabic, Snezana" , selby32 , t.a.noonan@gmail.com, "Ware, Joshua" , zolfr@sympatico.ca MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Dos chap #2: 1 book, 2 spines, 3 authors. 3 not-to-be-missed chaps in the second book: Michael Cross' "Throne" Michelle Detorie's "A Coincidence of Wants" Johannes G=F6ransson's "Majakovskij en tragedy" See pics & get yours here: http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=3D8325897 Covers for book 2 were screenprinted on both sides by Wood Apparel in San Marcos, TX. Design by Julia Drescher & CJ Martin, featuring drafts, source material, and vispo from the authors. Selections from the first book (now out of print) can be read in the first issue of Little Red Leaves (www.littleredleaves.com). Pics can also be viewed from our Flickr site (http://www.flickr.com/photos/63176434@N00/). --=20 www.dospress.blogspot.com www.littleredleaves.com www.littleredleavesjournal.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 20:22:55 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Defuge of Ocean and Sheave MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Defuge of Ocean and Sheave [13:46] Gesture is missing from database. [13:46] Gesture is missing from database. [13:46] Gesture is missing from database. [13:46] Gesture is missing from database. [13:46] Gesture is missing from database. [13:46] Gesture is missing from database. [13:46] Gesture is missing from database. [13:46] Gesture is missing from database. [13:46] Gesture is missing from database. [13:46] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat... [13:46] Gesture is missing from database. [13:46] Gesture is missing from database. [13:46] Gesture is missing from database. [13:46] Connected [13:46] Gesture is missing from database. [13:46] Gesture is missing from database. [13:46] Gesture is missing from database. [13:46] Gesture is missing from database. [13:46] Gesture is missing from database. [13:46] Gesture is missing from database. [13:58] You: I'm just a lonely girl [13:58] You: Lonely and true [13:58] You: My sheaves stroke against you [13:58] You: They're covered in glue [13:59] You: Sometimes a great notion [13:59] You: Comes down in the night [13:59] You: I fly to the ocean [13:59] You: I flee from the light [13:59] You: My movements are palsied [13:59] You: My body's a mess [14:00] You: My parents have flown free [14:00] You: They're gone from the nest [14:00] You: I don't know their true names [14:00] You: I don't know my own [14:00] You: Mostly I play games [14:00] You: I don't search for home [14:01] You: I don't search for anything [14:01] You: My mind is elsewhere http://www.alansondheim.org/defuge3.mp4 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 22:57:00 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ben Basan Subject: Stockhausen dies aged 79 MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"; format=flowed Sad News: http://music.guardian.co.uk/obituaries/story/0,,2224081,00.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 15:19:24 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Small Press Traffic Subject: Thanks For Joining SPT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear Friends of SPT, Thanks to everyone who has helped to make our membership drive such a success! Since October, we have earned more in membership contributions than we did during all of last year. Thanks so much for your support! To meet our current membership drive goals, we are still hoping to enroll 18 more new or renewed members by December 31st. If you haven't already, join us! In the short time that I have been with Small Press Traffic as the Interim Director, my admiration for the organization and the work we do has continued to grow. SPT helps make public and promote ideas and concerns that otherwise are not represented by the mainstream media. In a time of staunch conservatism, of rampant misinformation and widespread withholding by our leaders, and in an atmosphere where materialism and ambition often override the human, SPT offers a vital, creative forum for dissent, for relation, and for difference. Please keep Small Press Traffic in mind for your end-of-the-year giving. Your membership donation to SPT is tax-deductible and grants you free admission to all of our events, as well as a subscription to Traffic, our fearless and fabulous journal. You can join/renew on-line or print a snail mail membership form by visiting: http://www.sptraffic.org/html/supporters.htm. There really is no better time! Those who join or renew their memberships by December 31, 2007 will receive archival broadsides from our vintage collection. Thanks again everyone & we'll see you in 2008! All best. Dana Teen Lomax Interim Director ***************************************************** Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center at CCA 1111 -- 8th Street San Francisco, CA 94107 415.551.9278 smallpresstraffic@gmail.com http://www.sptraffic.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 15:21:48 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Stockhausen est mort at 79 Comments: cc: Poetryetc , UK POETRY MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/world/AP-Obit-Stockhausen.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 06:59:10 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: Re: first publication dates of 2 books MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Miekal, Doesn't Vladimir Markov's book on Futurism date Huts? I know he discusses it. This title is not accessible for me to check right now. I bet it's in your library though. I have always loved this book, especially for the large number of photographs of the works under discussion. There are some wonderful books by Guro that are perpetually for sale at a very reasonable price on ABE. I salivate every so often when I look at them. Does anyone know where a copy of the Livshits _Wolves of the Sun_ may be obtained? I sort of consider that one the Holy Grail of poetry. I figure it's buried in some Russian archive and probably one other attic where the squirrels are keeping the babies warm with poetic genius. **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 07:02:16 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: Re: Michele Leggott, new New Zealand Poet Laureate (new!) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Congrats, Michele! And congrats New Zealand on your fine taste in lit! I want that book she did on Zukofsky's late Flowers book, have been watching for it for a number of years but it's not to be had! **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 05:28:45 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Other Side of the Mirror,Movie Review,N Y Times///Dylan at Newport '65 (and before) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline nhttp://movies.nytimes.com/2007/12/07/movies/07mirr.html?ref=movies --- When will there be a kind of "Subterranean Blues" "Dylan detournement" / "Highway 61 Revisited" detour film about the Nuggets and Pebbles-anthologized Fauxk Rockers Mouse/Mouse and the Traps? Something to lighten up the seriousness-- (is their any footage of Dylan's high school rock band?--young Bob at home learning guitar from Esteban dvds?--a psychedelic "electri-fried" Trip through Dylanania . . . exploring the little known Lee Harvey Oswald connection--how Dylan later died in the motorcycle crash and was replaced with a double . . . or maybe the "real" Dylan is living quietly somewhere as a partially disabled somewhat brain damaged "nice neighbor" peacefully "cultivating his own garden" among Voltairean --as opposed to Baudelairean-- flowers?--"unearthed" someday by a tabloid-addled psychic researcher--and brought "back to life" as a musical and lyrical cousin of Daniel Johnson?--even having shows of his "naive" paintings--and getting to meet and play with the "Bob Dylan" of world wide fame--doing a "Reunion" Concert and CD?--playing at "Always Wear Your Helmet" rallies . . . going to see old friends like Joan Baez for the cameras . . . and writing, with a ghost writer--"Another Side of Bob Dylan"?--as an in-crowd in-joke homage to "his" fans . . . the ones of the "real Bob Dylan"--) Mouse and the Traps- The Sixties garage punk cult classic Texas band whose 1966 "A Public Execution" (released simply as by "Mouse") was in "a simple twist of fate" produced by Robin Hood Brians at his Robin Hood studio--(meaning occultically that Dylan is the Sheriif of Nottingham?--) "Execution" is an uncannily Dylanesque "parody/homage of the "Like A Rolling Stone" period Bob--lead singer Randy Weiss sounding so like Dylan the unsuspecting ask--"is it real or is it Bob Dylan?" to music complete with harmonica and all the fixin's-- Members of the band later released a single under the band name "Postively 13 O'Clock"-- parody/homage in name only of the "Postively Fourth Street" Dylan . . . At least Randy Weiss (aka "Mouse") never claimed that Dylan was imitating HIM! Unlike the Chocolate Watchband singer who harbored a serious delusion that Mick Jagger had ripped him off-- Some Watchband songs do sound almost too eerily like the Stones of of the 1965-6 period--they also did a great version of Dylan's "Baby Blue" and a much punkier version of the Kinks' "Medication" than the Standells, with whom they for while shared producer Ed Cobb (author of the Standells', now Red Sox Nation anthem "Dirty Water." You can see and hear for yourself the "real Mick Jagger" as the Watchband appeared in "Psych-Out," a "young generation" genre companion film to "Riot on Sunset Strip" which featured their Tower Record Label mates The Standells. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 10:35:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: CA Conrad Subject: IF YOU'RE IN BROOKLYN TOMORROW DO NOT MISS THIS! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hi, friends! As part of the "9 Poets 9 Cities" project http://9poets9cities.blogspot.com I invite you to attend* the Brooklyn B-63 5th Avenue bus reading!* This Sunday (December 9), from 10 AM until 2:30 PM*, *poetry will happen*** * along the B-63 route -- nine poems, that is, by nine poets, each read at their own unique location... by Jen Coleman. If you want to bear live witness to this historical happening, see the times, locations, and poems to be read at this blog site: http://brooklyn9by9.blogspot.com And if you wish you could see the poems by nine poets from around the world, as read on the street in Brooklyn, but you don't want to wander around in the cold from Fort Hamilton to Park Slope all day on Sunday December 9, stay tuned: *the YouTube version of the reading will appear on January 1st!* ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 06:53:22 -0500 Reply-To: biorhetorics@mail.dk Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Philip Pain Subject: New Short text keitai/ mobile poetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I read recently in the Times (London) that the top five or so novels in Japan were created and read on mobiles. One critic thought it was the slippery road to illiteracy, others think it will help to keep text going. I always wonder about the future - Mircea Eliade wrote in a journal the best novel is the one you will do -- not the one you have done or are working on - of course Rob needs to be congratulated for his novel - but I thought of the poem of the future, whether it will be text or images. The Japanese language with its origins in Chinese has a clear advantage as it can cross over into art - like Arabic script - but our alphabet? - This keitai novel also made me think of the levels of poetics, the possibility that a poem might be like an archaelogical artefact, you could dig deeper and deeper through past text messages and these would add to the effect. I write this after experimenting with "crashing" pub talk into Thomas Browne's Meditations, seeing how some of his phraseology and words could wind themselves around the chatter and gossip of a pub evening. Never get drunk while reading John Milton's Paradise Lost, by the way - I know someone who did -- with funny results...Stephen Philip Pain, MPhilwww.biorhetorics.1go.dkkongensgade 15 1-sal,5000 Odense C.Denmark.Tel: +45 66 12 06 22 _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 20:01:27 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Rodefer Subject: poetry well writ as prose MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ford would have been close to the top of his list of examples quite likely. IE The Good Soldier. xoS -- Stephen R http://rodefer.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 10:50:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Reviews at Jacket In-Reply-To: <119707.90620.qm@web86005.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks, Barry. At 01:18 PM 12/7/2007, you wrote: >Congratulations, Mark. It's a wonderful book.=20 >Although I've never studied Spanish, I am=20 >sufficiently familiar with other romance=20 >languages to be able to usefully compare the=20 >translation with the facing text, and I can see=20 >that you have really worked on these renderings,=20 >which are neither "free" on the one hand nor=20 >literal on the other, but beautufully thought=20 >through. ----- Original Message ---- From: Mark=20 >Weiss To:=20 >POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Thursday, 6=20 >December, 2007 9:51:05 PM Subject: Reviews at=20 >Jacket Two reviews at Jacket of Stet: Selected=20 >Poems, by Jos=C3=A9 Kozer, with my translations, one=20 >by Eugenia Demuro=20 >http://jacketmagazine.com/34/demuro-kozer.shtml,=20 >the other by Christopher Leland Winks=20 >http://jacketmagazine.com/34/winks-kozer.shtml.=20 >The book is available from junctionpress.com,=20 >or, to take advantage of 20% discount to the list, backchannel to me. Mark ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 10:07:07 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Potree Journal Subject: Re: Second Dos Press Chapbook Now Available Comments: To: "Bewitjanus@aol.com" , marcia arrieta , "SLIDINGSCA@aol.com" , Arielle Greenberg , "r.farr@att.net" , Lisa Robertson , "bonjean@email.arizona.edu" , Anne Lendon Heide , derek beaulieu , Betsy Fagin , Jason Christie , Elizabeth Cross , Christine Hume , Joel Chace , crane giamo , claybanes@gmail.com, Danielle Pafunda , Dawn Pendergast , Elizabeth Treadwell , Elisa Gabbert , eric unger , Skip Fox , Francis Raven , Geoffrey Hlibchuk , Ofelia Hunt , Victoria Hsieh , Juliana Leslie , kate@kickingwind.com, Laura Navratil , linhdinh99@yahoo.com, Sheila Murphy , IJ Menchaca , Sara Veglahn , "Zabic, Snezana" , selby32 , t.a.noonan@gmail.com, "Ware, Joshua" , zolfr@sympatico.ca In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline *Apologies for the repeat post: corrected link below... Dos chap #2: 1 book, 2 spines, 3 authors. 3 not-to-be-missed chaps in the second book: Michael Cross' "Throne" Michelle Detorie's "A Coincidence of Wants" Johannes G=F6ransson's "Majakovskij en tragedy" See pics & get yours here: http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=3D8327065 Covers for book 2 were screenprinted on both sides by Wood Apparel in San Marcos, TX. Design by Julia Drescher & CJ Martin, featuring drafts, source material, and vispo from the authors. Selections from the first book (now out of print) can be read in the first issue of Little Red Leaves (www.littleredleaves.com). Pics can also be viewed from our Flickr site (http://www.flickr.com/photos/63176434@N00/). -- www.dospress.blogspot.com www.littleredleaves.com www.littleredleavesjournal.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 10:15:24 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Cunningham Subject: Role of the Poet in Society MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've just been studying some Levertov and came across these words: "Contemplation - meditation - the words are taken from the religious vocabulary, and surely this is no accident; for we should remember the ritual, sacramental roots of art and realize that the act of creating a = work of art is in its nature a celebration of life...and that the artists = himself has a function not very different from that of the priest of shaman. ...It is a testimony of that 'participation mystique', that involvement = of the individual in a life beyond himself, which is a basic element of religion in the broadest and deepest sense. The poem communicates = something more of life to the receiver than he would have without it, and the poet = is the mediator or priest in this rite of communion, in which, as in = Christian communion, he himself participates also as a receiver." Her thoughts tie in to some that I have had over the past while. Is the poet, or, more broadly, the creative artist, the shaman of contemporary society? Is the process of creating a poem similar to that of a = vipassana, i.e. mindfulness, meditation? What is the role of the creative artist in society now that 'art-for-arts-sake' is pass=E9? John Cunningham No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition.=20 Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.17/1177 - Release Date: = 07/12/2007 1:11 PM =20 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 11:34:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adam Tobin Subject: Sunday at Unnameable: Shelley Jackson & Jessica Smith MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable (Brooklyn) *** *** ***=20 THIS SUNDAY AT UNNAMEABLE BOOKS December 9=20 at 5:00 pm=20 *** *** ***=20 Shelley Jackson=20 (Half Life, Melancholy of Anatomy, Patchwork Girl, Skin)=20 &=20 Jessica Smith=20 (Organic Furniture Cellar)=20 *** *** ***=20 not to be missed. to be not missed. don't miss it!=20 this SUNDAY at 5 PM=20 UNNAMEABLE BOOKS=20 456 Bergen Street=20 Brooklyn -- near all trains! Free & Open & Public=20 SHELLEY JACKSON is the author of the recent novel HALF LIFE, as well as = the short story collection THE MELANCHOLY OF ANATOMY. She is perhaps best = known for her hypertext novel PATCHWORK GIRL, and she has also authored a = short story, SKIN, published in tattoos on the skin of some two thousand volunteers. LA WEEKLY once called her "a queerer Don DeLillo, or a = sassier Pynchon." See her website http://www.ineradicablestain.com for more. JESSICA SMITH is the author of ORGANIC FURNITURE CELLAR. Originally = from Birmingham, Alabama, she received her MA in Comparitive Literature from = SUNY Buffalo, where she participated in the Poetics Program and started the poetry magazine NAME. She now lives in Charlottesville, VA, but is in = the process of moving to Brooklyn. She edits OUTSIDE VOICES, which will publishing a much-anticipated Anthology Of Younger Poets sometime in = 2008. Christian B=F6k says: "Jessica Smith refuses to write like lyric poets, = who merely rearrange the furniture of language in their rooms; instead, she makes her language skid 'every which way' like an office chair kicked = across a parquet floor." *** *** ***=20 *** *** ***=20 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 12:11:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: book reviews In-Reply-To: <120301.53373.qm@web86013.mail.ird.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Michael O'brien and I used to be friends in the sixties on Columbia University campus. He even tried to improve one of my poems at that time, to no avail. A phrase from one of his poems of the time sticks to my mind: "Cleveland Platonists." This is the strangest review I saw. Is New York Times congratulating itself that this review will rescue Michael O'brien from obscurity? Ciao, Murat On Dec 7, 2007 4:36 PM, Barry Schwabsky wrote: > Not one but two reviews of interesting books in this week's Times Book > Review: George Saunders on Daniil Kharms ( > http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/09/books/review/Saunders-t.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1&8bu&emc=bu_and David Orr on Michael O'Brien ( > http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/09/books/review/Orr4-t.html?8bu&emc=bu). > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 12:19:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: " poetry . . .as well written as prose" In-Reply-To: <629354.54481.qm@web86008.mail.ird.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline If I remember correctly, T. S.Eliot states the same, or something close to it, in one of his essays. He is attacking the vagueness of thought and language the poetry of the time (the Edwardian stuff) was suffering from. Murat On Dec 7, 2007 9:36 AM, Barry Schwabsky wrote: > Pound got his dictum from Ford Madox Hueffer (subsequently Ford). In his > obit for Ford, he wrote that "for the ten years before I got to England > there would seem to have been no one but Ford who held that French clarity > and simplicity in the writing of English verse and prose were of immense > importance as in contrast to the use of a stilted traditional dialect, a > 'language of verse' unused in the actual talk of the people, even of 'the > best people', for the expression of reality and emotion." Thus, "prose" here > means, essentially, the tradition of Flaubert, and the condition of poetry > he was responding to was that of late Victorian verse--he specifically > mentions Robert Bridges and "the useful, but monotonous, in their day unduly > neglected, as more recently unduly touted, metrical labours of G. Manley > Hopkins." And he also mentions his own early efforts, "when my third volume > displayed me trapped, fly-papered, gummed and strapped downin a jejune > provincial effort to learn...the stiled language that then passed for > 'good English' in the arthritic milieu that held control of the respected > British critical circles." > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Luke Schlueter > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Friday, 7 December, 2007 2:03:45 AM > Subject: " poetry . . .as well written as prose" > > Hi, Luke Schlueter here. I'm new to this listserv having happily stumbled > upon it as I was looking for a forum to discuss poetics. > > I embarked upon this search with a specific purpose in mind. In a letter > to Harriet Monroe Ezra Pound famously stated that "poetry should be as well > written as prose." I use the line in an academic paper I'm writing having > to do with the poetry of Stephen Dunn, but it occurred to me that I am > basing my use of Pound's statement on an assumption about what Pound meant, > which may be entirely wrong. > > I would be very interested, then, to hear what some of you may have so say > about the set of historical/cultural/aesthetic assumptions underlying > Pound's statement. What were the specific conditions of poetry and prose > that he was responding to? What excellence did he imagine prose to > enacting, and what lack of excellence poetry? Who were some prose writers > he had in mind? Was he thinking of essayists? or novelists? Or both? > > So we'll see if this topic has legs. > > Best, > Luke > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 12:33:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Duggan Subject: Re: 20th Century Long Poems In-Reply-To: <001f01c83933$7990b0a0$97f39a04@Cesare> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Well, *The Dream Songs* (John Berryman) is considered a book length poem, as is James Schuyler's *Morning Of The Poem *and Joe Brainard's *I Remember*. Though can't say what the absolute longest is. On Dec 7, 2007 7:43 PM, ric carfagna wrote: > Hello, > I was wondering if anyone would know what would be > considered the longest poem written in English in the 20th century. > Thanks, > Ric > -- Patrick Duggan Idiolexicon ( http://www.idiolexicon.com ) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 12:32:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Great videos of music or poetry? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Gary, *Jacket* just came out with its new issue with a 120-page section on Turkis= h poetry in it: http://jacketmagazine.com/34/index.shtml My best to Nada, Affectionately, Murat On Dec 7, 2007 7:25 AM, Gary Sullivan wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > Every morning I'm posting videos of music and (when possible) poetry from > around the world as part of a project "Around the World in 80 Days" to: > > http://garysullivan.blogspot.com > > Since I began, a friend has made some great suggestions about videos from > one upcoming country that I would never have otherwise known about. > > So I thought I would ask all of you: Do you know of anything really > amazing from one of the countries listed below? It has to be something I = can > embed into the blog itself. > > I'm particularly interested in live readings of poetry and in creating an > accurately diverse snapshot of each place to the extent that's possible. > > Send URLs to me at: gpsullivan@hotmail.com > > Thanks! > > Gary > > > LIST OF COUNTRIES > > Afghanistan > > Albania > > Algeria > > Angola > > Argentina > > Armenia > > Australia > > Bangladesh > > Bolivia > > Bosnia and Herzegovina > > Brazil > > Bulgaria > > Cambodia > > Cape Verde > > China > > Colombia > > C=F4te d'Ivoire > > Croatia > > Cuba > > Ecuador > > Egypt > > El Salvador > > Ethiopia > > Finland > > France > > Georgia > > Germany > > Greece > > Guatemala > > Guyana > > Haiti > > Honduras > > Hungary > > Iceland > > India > > Indonesia > > Iran > > Iraq > > Ireland > > Israel > > Italy > > Jamaica > > Japan > > Kazakhstan > > Kenya > > Korea, South > > Kuwait > > Lebanon > > Malaysia > > Mexico > > Mongolia > > Morocco > > Myanmar > > Nepal > > Nicaragua > > Nigeria > > Pakistan > > Peru > > Philippines > > Poland > > Portugal > > Romania > > Russia > > Senegal > > South Africa > > Sri Lanka > > Sweden > > Syria > > Thailand > > Trinidad and Tobago > > Tunisia > > Turkey > > United Kingdom > > United States > > Uzbekistan > > Venezuela > > Vietnam > > Western Sahara > > Yemen > > Zimbabwe > > _________________________________________________________________ > Put your friends on the big screen with Windows Vista(R) + Windows Live= =99. > > http://www.microsoft.com/windows/shop/specialoffers.mspx?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM= _CPC_MediaCtr_bigscreen_102007 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 12:39:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: angela vasquez-giroux Subject: Re: 20th Century Long Poems In-Reply-To: <001f01c83933$7990b0a0$97f39a04@Cesare> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Diane Wakoski--Greed is up to 13 parts. Tho I think she skipped part 8? McGrath-Letter to An Imaginary Friend Walcott-Omeros On Dec 7, 2007 7:43 PM, ric carfagna wrote: > Hello, > I was wondering if anyone would know what would be > considered the longest poem written in English in the 20th century. > Thanks, > Ric > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 13:06:01 -0500 Reply-To: az421@freenet.carleton.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: [ric@ISP.COM: 20th Century Long Poems] Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT The Martyrology by late Toronto poet bpNichol Books 1-9 rob ================= Begin forwarded message ================= From: ric@ISP.COM (ric carfagna) To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: 20th Century Long Poems Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 19:43:59 -0500 Hello,=20 I was wondering if anyone would know what would be=20 considered the longest poem written in English in the 20th century.=20 Thanks,=20 Ric=20 -- poet/editor/publisher ...STANZAS mag, above/ground press & Chaudiere Books (www.chaudierebooks.com) ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...13th poetry coll'n - The Ottawa City Project .... 2007-8 writer in residence, U of Alberta * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 10:15:05 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nico Vassilakis Subject: Goldsmith & Stein MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable in playful esteems http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D3vKWfxTqoHo= ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 10:33:04 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Paul Nelson Subject: Re: Role of the Poet in Society MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am very interested in the thread you start here and offer y= John,=0A=0A=0AI am very interested in the thread you start here and offer y= ou this as a reply:=0A=0A=0A=0AIntroduction to Organic Poetry=0A=0A=0A =0A= =0A=0A =0A=0A=0AWhen I first read Michael=0AMcClure=92s book Three Poems in= 1995=0Aand saw in the author=92s preface the words =93if poetry and scienc= e cannot change=0Aone=92s life they are meaningless,=94 something resonated= so deeply it was to=0Achange my life for the better, forever (xv). It adde= d a great deal of momentum=0Ato my own process of individuation and serves = as the main part of the substrate=0Aof the materials gathered here. What re= sonated deeply was that poetry ought to=0Ahave a transformative function or= what was the point? continued at: http://www.globalvoicesradio.org/Organi= c-Poetry-Introductory-Essay-4.8.07.html=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0APaul E. Nelson= , M.A. =0AWPA President=0A=0AGlobal Voices Radio=0ASPLAB!=0AAmerican Senten= ces=0AOrganic Poetry=0APoetry Postcard Blog=0AWashington Poets Association= =0A=0AIlalqo, WA 253.735.6328 or 888.735.6328=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original = Message ----=0AFrom: John Cunningham =0ATo: POET= ICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=0ASent: Saturday, December 8, 2007 8:15:24 AM=0ASu= bject: Role of the Poet in Society=0A=0A=0AI've just been studying some Lev= ertov and came across these words:=0A"Contemplation - meditation - the word= s are taken from the religious=0Avocabulary, and surely this is no accident= ; for we should remember the=0Aritual, sacramental roots of art and realize= that the act of creating a=0A work=0Aof art is in its nature a celebration= of life...and that the artists=0A himself=0Ahas a function not very differ= ent from that of the priest of shaman.=0A...It is a testimony of that 'part= icipation mystique', that involvement=0A of=0Athe individual in a life beyo= nd himself, which is a basic element of=0Areligion in the broadest and deep= est sense. The poem communicates=0A something=0Amore of life to the receive= r than he would have without it, and the=0A poet is=0Athe mediator or pries= t in this rite of communion, in which, as in=0A Christian=0Acommunion, he h= imself participates also as a receiver."=0AHer thoughts tie in to some that= I have had over the past while. Is the=0Apoet, or, more broadly, the creat= ive artist, the shaman of contemporary=0Asociety? Is the process of creatin= g a poem similar to that of a=0A vipassana,=0Ai.e. mindfulness, meditation?= What is the role of the creative artist=0A in=0Asociety now that 'art-for-= arts-sake' is pass=E9?=0AJohn Cunningham=0A=0ANo virus found in this outgoi= ng message.=0AChecked by AVG Free Edition. =0AVersion: 7.5.503 / Virus Data= base: 269.16.17/1177 - Release Date:=0A 07/12/2007=0A1:11 PM=0A =0A=0A=0A= =0A ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 13:49:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adam Tobin Subject: Re: 20th Century Long Poems In-Reply-To: <34bace050712080933t4328501cua63502c029b77621@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit bpNichol's MARTYROLOGY perhaps, if you're counting pages. If you're counting words: maybe Kenneth Goldsmith's DAY? -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Patrick Duggan Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 12:33 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: 20th Century Long Poems Well, *The Dream Songs* (John Berryman) is considered a book length poem, as is James Schuyler's *Morning Of The Poem *and Joe Brainard's *I Remember*. Though can't say what the absolute longest is. On Dec 7, 2007 7:43 PM, ric carfagna wrote: > Hello, > I was wondering if anyone would know what would be considered the > longest poem written in English in the 20th century. > Thanks, > Ric > -- Patrick Duggan Idiolexicon ( http://www.idiolexicon.com ) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 12:22:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Re: Great videos of music or poetry? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Gary Sullivan" << Hi Everyone, ... So I thought I would ask all of you: Do you know of anything really amazing from one of the countries listed below? It has to be something I can embed into the blog itself. ... United Kingdom >> Strictly, the United Kingdom isn't one country (what it is -- a conglomeration? -- I'm not sure what the term should be) but a collection of four -- Scotland, England, Wales, and [Northern] Ireland. I don't know whether videos of them exist, but for Scotland, Tom Leonard performing "My Name Is Tom" or Edwin Morgan reading "The Loch Ness Monster's Song" spring to mind. Robin Hamilton. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 13:52:22 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stuart Ross Subject: Re: 20th Century Long Poems In-Reply-To: <34bace050712080933t4328501cua63502c029b77621@mail.gmail.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Flow Chart, by John Ashbery, is a contender, I'd think. Stuart On 12/8/07 12:33 PM, "Patrick Duggan" wrote: > Well, *The Dream Songs* (John Berryman) is considered a book length poem, as > is James Schuyler's *Morning Of The Poem *and Joe Brainard's *I Remember*. > Though can't say what the absolute longest is. > > On Dec 7, 2007 7:43 PM, ric carfagna wrote: > >> Hello, >> I was wondering if anyone would know what would be >> considered the longest poem written in English in the 20th century. >> Thanks, >> Ric >> > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 14:01:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: book reviews In-Reply-To: <1dec21ae0712080911k760c655h3b221cb31843d1ad@mail.gmail.com > Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Michael and I were very close in the 70s. It's good to see him getting attention, and in the Times no less, whatever the reason. Mark At 12:11 PM 12/8/2007, you wrote: >Michael O'brien and I used to be friends in the sixties on Columbia >University campus. He even tried to improve one of my poems at that time, to >no avail. A phrase from one of his poems of the time sticks to my mind: >"Cleveland Platonists." This is the strangest review I saw. Is New York >Times congratulating itself that this review will rescue Michael O'brien >from obscurity? > >Ciao, > >Murat > >On Dec 7, 2007 4:36 PM, Barry Schwabsky wrote: > > > Not one but two reviews of interesting books in this week's Times Book > > Review: George Saunders on Daniil Kharms ( > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/09/books/review/Saunders-t.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1&8bu&emc=bu_and > David Orr on Michael O'Brien ( > > http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/09/books/review/Orr4-t.html?8bu&emc=bu). > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 10:22:50 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabrielle Welford Subject: Re: rob's first novel In-Reply-To: <890411.98708.qm@web56812.mail.re3.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT sorry. :-) honest, i'm nearly done.... i guess i'm too unambitious--bad at sitting down to write in general--maybe it was the ph.d. what done it or the 2 children or the new life, new man, new self. onward... g On Thu, 6 Dec 2007, akshaya kamalnaath wrote: > omg ur scaring me. Ive been writing it since three months nd hopefully will be done with a irst draft in a few more months. Then I'll post u guys an absolutely free copy to get your reviews. Im not writing the first one for monew. just to get started types. > > Gabrielle Welford wrote: me too--for the last 21 years... :-) > > On Thu, 6 Dec 2007, akshaya kamalnaath wrote: > > > Ya congrats to Rob...Im still actually in the process of writing my first novel. > > Akshaya > > > > Tracey Gagne wrote: > > congratulations, Rob! That's a great accomplishment! > > > > :) > > Tracey > > > > > > On 12/5/07, Rob McLennan wrote: > > > > > > my first little novel, white, is now part of the world; > > > > > > info here; > > > http://www.themercurypress.ca/?q=books/white > > > > > > edmonton launch was last night; ottawa launch next week; > > > > > > alberta rob > > > > > > -- > > > poet/editor/publisher ...STANZAS mag, above/ground press & Chaudiere > > > Books (www.chaudierebooks.com) ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press > > > fair ...13th poetry coll'n - The Ottawa City Project .... 2007-8 > > > writer in residence, U of Alberta * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 10:26:38 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabrielle Welford Subject: Re: The young shooter of Omaha... In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT yes, i remember someone writing that after columbine--we point fingers at the young, when at that time i think clinton had ordered the bombing of yugoslavia, and as you say, now look at us. it's more than a million dead now. i surely wish it wasn't "us." g On Fri, 7 Dec 2007, CA Conrad wrote: > The young shooter of Omaha is mentioned with such statements by reporters, > "We're such a violent nation," true, but then they go on with comparisons to > Virginia Tech, or Columbine. > > Which makes sense. But shouldn't they also be saying, "Yes, look at what > we're doing in Iraq!" > > "We're such a violent nation, I mean look at what we're doing in Iraq! > Almost a million people dead!" > > No one says this. It's taboo. > > CAConrad > http://PhillySound.blogspot.com > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 14:26:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: 20th Century Long Poems In-Reply-To: <001f01c83933$7990b0a0$97f39a04@Cesare> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I would think it is The Cantos. Murat On Dec 7, 2007 7:43 PM, ric carfagna wrote: > Hello, > I was wondering if anyone would know what would be > considered the longest poem written in English in the 20th century. > Thanks, > Ric > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 12:44:40 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: maxpaul@SFSU.EDU Subject: Re: 20th Century Long Poems In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Paul Hoover says that Frank Stanford's poem published by Lost Roads was extremely long, hundreds of pages. Maxine Chernoff Quoting Stuart Ross : > Flow Chart, by John Ashbery, is a contender, I'd think. > > Stuart > > > On 12/8/07 12:33 PM, "Patrick Duggan" wrote: > >> Well, *The Dream Songs* (John Berryman) is considered a book length poem, as >> is James Schuyler's *Morning Of The Poem *and Joe Brainard's *I Remember*. >> Though can't say what the absolute longest is. >> >> On Dec 7, 2007 7:43 PM, ric carfagna wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> I was wondering if anyone would know what would be >>> considered the longest poem written in English in the 20th century. >>> Thanks, >>> Ric >>> >> >> > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 13:16:25 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: 20th Century Long Poems In-Reply-To: <000001c839cb$1f1bd080$6401a8c0@rose> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Is Z's "A" considered short now? On Dec 8, 2007, at 10:49 AM, Adam Tobin wrote: > bpNichol's MARTYROLOGY perhaps, if you're counting pages. > If you're counting words: maybe Kenneth Goldsmith's DAY? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > Behalf Of Patrick Duggan > Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 12:33 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: 20th Century Long Poems > > Well, *The Dream Songs* (John Berryman) is considered a book length > poem, as > is James Schuyler's *Morning Of The Poem *and Joe Brainard's *I > Remember*. > Though can't say what the absolute longest is. > > On Dec 7, 2007 7:43 PM, ric carfagna wrote: > >> Hello, >> I was wondering if anyone would know what would be considered the >> longest poem written in English in the 20th century. >> Thanks, >> Ric >> > > > > -- > Patrick Duggan > Idiolexicon ( http://www.idiolexicon.com ) > > George Herman Bowering A good apple from the Okanagan ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 16:16:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Mackowski, Joanie (mackowje)" Subject: Re: 20th Century Long Poems In-Reply-To: A<20071208124440.mtdh5dhsdckg404s@webmail.sfsu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There's Merrill's The Changing Light at Sandover, too--=20 Joanie ....................................................... Joanie Mackowski, PhD Assistant Professor English & Comparative Literature University of Cincinnati PO Box 210069 Cincinnati, OH 45221-0069 Tel. 513/556-3207 Fax 513/556-5960 joanie.mackowski@uc.edu http://homepages.uc.edu/~mackowje =20 -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of maxpaul@SFSU.EDU Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 3:45 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: 20th Century Long Poems Paul Hoover says that Frank Stanford's poem published by Lost Roads =20 was extremely long, hundreds of pages. Maxine Chernoff Quoting Stuart Ross : > Flow Chart, by John Ashbery, is a contender, I'd think. > > Stuart > > > On 12/8/07 12:33 PM, "Patrick Duggan" wrote: > >> Well, *The Dream Songs* (John Berryman) is considered a book length poem, as >> is James Schuyler's *Morning Of The Poem *and Joe Brainard's *I Remember*. >> Though can't say what the absolute longest is. >> >> On Dec 7, 2007 7:43 PM, ric carfagna wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> I was wondering if anyone would know what would be >>> considered the longest poem written in English in the 20th century. >>> Thanks, >>> Ric >>> >> >> > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 16:39:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aryanil Mukherjee Subject: Re: 20th Century Long Poems In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Flowchart by John Ashbery. Sure. not just by sheer size (at 216 pages) but I would argue it is one of the finest long poems written in modern times. aryanil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart Ross" To: Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 1:52 PM Subject: Re: 20th Century Long Poems > Flow Chart, by John Ashbery, is a contender, I'd think. > > Stuart > > > On 12/8/07 12:33 PM, "Patrick Duggan" wrote: > >> Well, *The Dream Songs* (John Berryman) is considered a book length poem, >> as >> is James Schuyler's *Morning Of The Poem *and Joe Brainard's *I >> Remember*. >> Though can't say what the absolute longest is. >> >> On Dec 7, 2007 7:43 PM, ric carfagna wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> I was wondering if anyone would know what would be >>> considered the longest poem written in English in the 20th century. >>> Thanks, >>> Ric >>> >> >> > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.17/1178 - Release Date: > 12/8/2007 11:59 AM > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 14:57:44 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Alexander Subject: Re: 20th Century Long Poems In-Reply-To: <34bace050712080933t4328501cua63502c029b77621@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed I don't think either of those is as long as either The Cantos or The Maximus Poems. I would imagine bpNichol's 9-volume The Martyrology would have to enter the conversation as being possibly the longest, but there must be others as well. One of them, perhaps, Frank Stanford's 524-page The Battlefield Where the Moon Says I Love you? Also, are you going to measure "longest" by number of lines, number of pages, word count, or what? If by pages, mss. pages or printers' pages? Can a very tiny short poem be long? Why not! charles charles alexander chax press chax@theriver.com 650 e. ninth st. tucson arizona 8505 520 620 1626 On Dec 8, 2007, at 10:33 AM, Patrick Duggan wrote: > Well, *The Dream Songs* (John Berryman) is considered a book length > poem, as > is James Schuyler's *Morning Of The Poem *and Joe Brainard's *I > Remember*. > Though can't say what the absolute longest is. > > On Dec 7, 2007 7:43 PM, ric carfagna wrote: > >> Hello, >> I was wondering if anyone would know what would be >> considered the longest poem written in English in the 20th century. >> Thanks, >> Ric >> > > > > -- > Patrick Duggan > Idiolexicon ( http://www.idiolexicon.com ) > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 15:03:10 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Moffett Subject: Re: 20th Century Long Poems In-Reply-To: A<20071208124440.mtdh5dhsdckg404s@webmail.sfsu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable James Merrill's _The Changing Light at Sandover_ is certainly a contender, but my bet would be Hugh MacDiarmid's collection of long works (In Memoriam James Joyce, "The Kind of Poetry I Want," etc.) that was to comprise his _Cornish Heroic Song_ that was supposed to be "the long poem ever written by one individual" according to Eliot Weinberger in his intro to _MacDiarmid's Selected Poetry_. Dr. Joe Moffett Assistant Professor of English Kentucky Wesleyan College 3000 Frederica Street Owensboro, KY 42301 =20 270 852 3245 jmoffett@kwc.edu -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of maxpaul@SFSU.EDU Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 2:45 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: 20th Century Long Poems Paul Hoover says that Frank Stanford's poem published by Lost Roads =20 was extremely long, hundreds of pages. Maxine Chernoff Quoting Stuart Ross : > Flow Chart, by John Ashbery, is a contender, I'd think. > > Stuart > > > On 12/8/07 12:33 PM, "Patrick Duggan" wrote: > >> Well, *The Dream Songs* (John Berryman) is considered a book length poem, as >> is James Schuyler's *Morning Of The Poem *and Joe Brainard's *I Remember*. >> Though can't say what the absolute longest is. >> >> On Dec 7, 2007 7:43 PM, ric carfagna wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> I was wondering if anyone would know what would be >>> considered the longest poem written in English in the 20th century. >>> Thanks, >>> Ric >>> >> >> > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 15:13:51 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Moffett Subject: Re: 20th Century Long Poems In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry -- of course that should have been "the longest poem ever written..." Dr. Joe Moffett Assistant Professor of English Kentucky Wesleyan College 3000 Frederica Street Owensboro, KY 42301 =20 270 852 3245 jmoffett@kwc.edu -----Original Message----- From: Joe Moffett=20 Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 3:03 PM To: 'UB Poetics discussion group' Subject: RE: 20th Century Long Poems James Merrill's _The Changing Light at Sandover_ is certainly a contender, but my bet would be Hugh MacDiarmid's collection of long works (In Memoriam James Joyce, "The Kind of Poetry I Want," etc.) that was to comprise his _Cornish Heroic Song_ that was supposed to be "the long poem ever written by one individual" according to Eliot Weinberger in his intro to _MacDiarmid's Selected Poetry_. Dr. Joe Moffett Assistant Professor of English Kentucky Wesleyan College 3000 Frederica Street Owensboro, KY 42301 =20 270 852 3245 jmoffett@kwc.edu -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of maxpaul@SFSU.EDU Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 2:45 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: 20th Century Long Poems Paul Hoover says that Frank Stanford's poem published by Lost Roads =20 was extremely long, hundreds of pages. Maxine Chernoff Quoting Stuart Ross : > Flow Chart, by John Ashbery, is a contender, I'd think. > > Stuart > > > On 12/8/07 12:33 PM, "Patrick Duggan" wrote: > >> Well, *The Dream Songs* (John Berryman) is considered a book length poem, as >> is James Schuyler's *Morning Of The Poem *and Joe Brainard's *I Remember*. >> Though can't say what the absolute longest is. >> >> On Dec 7, 2007 7:43 PM, ric carfagna wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> I was wondering if anyone would know what would be >>> considered the longest poem written in English in the 20th century. >>> Thanks, >>> Ric >>> >> >> > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 17:34:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: Great videos of music or poetry? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Flanders and Swann "The English" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vh-wEXvdW8 On 8 Dec 2007 at 12:22, Robin Hamilton wrote: > From: "Gary Sullivan" > > << > Hi Everyone, > > ... > > So I thought I would ask all of you: Do you know of anything really > amazing > from one of the countries listed below? It has to be something I can > embed > into the blog itself. > ... > > United Kingdom > >> > > Strictly, the United Kingdom isn't one country (what it is -- a > conglomeration? -- I'm not sure what the term should be) but a > collection of > four -- Scotland, England, Wales, and [Northern] Ireland. > > I don't know whether videos of them exist, but for Scotland, Tom > Leonard > performing "My Name Is Tom" or Edwin Morgan reading "The Loch Ness > Monster's > Song" spring to mind. > > Robin Hamilton. > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.17/1178 - Release Date: > 12/8/2007 11:59 AM > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 15:12:48 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve russell Subject: Re: 20th Century Long Poems In-Reply-To: <20071208124440.mtdh5dhsdckg404s@webmail.sfsu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit "In Parenthesis" by David Jones is a very long prose poem. "The Cantos" is probably as long as Berryman's "The Dream Songs." & has anyone mentioned "The Changing light at Sandover." Merrill's poem, I'm almost certain, is longer than "Flow Chart." Merwin's recent "The Folding Cliffs" is also an epic, but not as long as the Merrill poem. On the other hand, I have none of these books in front of me. I not certain which one is the longest, although I'd bet on Merrill's poem. maxpaul@SFSU.EDU wrote: Paul Hoover says that Frank Stanford's poem published by Lost Roads was extremely long, hundreds of pages. Maxine Chernoff Quoting Stuart Ross : > Flow Chart, by John Ashbery, is a contender, I'd think. > > Stuart > > > On 12/8/07 12:33 PM, "Patrick Duggan" wrote: > >> Well, *The Dream Songs* (John Berryman) is considered a book length poem, as >> is James Schuyler's *Morning Of The Poem *and Joe Brainard's *I Remember*. >> Though can't say what the absolute longest is. >> >> On Dec 7, 2007 7:43 PM, ric carfagna wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> I was wondering if anyone would know what would be >>> considered the longest poem written in English in the 20th century. >>> Thanks, >>> Ric >>> >> >> > --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 15:52:12 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve russell Subject: Re: 20th century long poems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I forgot to mention "The Triumph of Love" by Geoffrey Hill. This poem may not be as lengthy as those I've mentioned on my previous post, but it's worth looking at. Besides, it's an example of a non-American 20th century long poem written in English. --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 21:02:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: unbidden correspondence In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="0-1286377919-1197165739=:27693" This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --0-1286377919-1197165739=:27693 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=Windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE I had this odd experience when I was a freshman at Brown - I.A. Richards=20 came to speak and I barged in on him surrounded by Deans and such and=20 asked him to read my poems - did I have any talent, etc. - he dismissively= =20 said he'd look at them sometime if he could & get back to me - the next=20 morning all the poems were back in my mailbox, annotated & complimented=20 upon - if it wasn't for him, I wouldn't have kept going and UB Poetics=20 might not have been so bothered. To this day Practical Criticism is about the only crit book I return to=20 with any sense of joy - - Alan On Fri, 7 Dec 2007, susan maurer wrote: > having recently received a great response from someone famous to=20 > something i sent him out of the blue i am curious what others=20 > experiences have been with doing this. i know often mail that others=20 > have sent me unasked works out to be problematic (now what do i do).=20 > what about you guys? susan maurer=20 > _________________________________________________________________ You=20 > keep typing, we keep giving. Download Messenger and join the i=92m=20 > Initiative now. http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=3DTAGLM > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Work on YouTube, blog at http://nikuko.blogspot.com . Tel 718-813-3285. Webpage directory http://www.alansondheim.org . Email: sondheim@panix.com. http://clc.as.wvu.edu:8080/clc/Members/sondheim for theory; also check WVU Zwiki, Google for recent. Write for info on books, cds, performance, dvds, etc. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D --0-1286377919-1197165739=:27693-- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 22:37:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aryanil Mukherjee Subject: Re: 20th century long poems In-Reply-To: <859551.78664.qm@web52406.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Adding on - may not be the longest, but Lawrence Ferlinghetti's last book Americus II is the continuation of his previous book length poem Americus I celebrating in ageless lyric the history of the New World. Also not to forget Amiri Baraka's near book-length 9-11 poem Somebody Blew Up America. aryanil -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of steve russell Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 6:52 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: 20th century long poems I forgot to mention "The Triumph of Love" by Geoffrey Hill. This poem may not be as lengthy as those I've mentioned on my previous post, but it's worth looking at. Besides, it's an example of a non-American 20th century long poem written in English. --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 23:35:32 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ann Bogle Subject: Re: unbidden correspondence MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/8/2007 9:34:14 A.M. Central Standard Time, sumaurer@HOTMAIL.COM writes: having recently received a great response from someone famous to something i sent him out of the blue i am curious what others experiences have been with doing this. i know often mail that others have sent me unasked works out to be problematic (now what do i do). what about you guys? susan maurer Susan, interesting question. I kept correspondences with a couple famous people, as you say, a writer and an editor, until it seemed we were through w/ it. It was pleasant and enlightening while it was taking place. These are people I'd had every reason to be in touch w/, but also I admired both tremendously. I was younger and more impressionable than now and very earnest about creative work and teaching. The same writer will still write to me today, if I write to her, wh. has been rare -- once in 12 years at most. That editor might write to me again -- it seemed his pattern to reply to correspondence. When I have written a pure fan letter, as I did once in college to Christa Wolf, she replied auf Deutsch, which I could read w/ ease, though I had read her books in English translation. Otherwise, in the rest of my experience and in my opinion, it can be weird out there where correspondence is concerned. People (also writers and teachers) who had urged me to contact them, really urged it, claimed friendship, etc., have sometimes not replied to a letter I sent. I send one letter, and if there is no reply, as has happened two or three times, I stop. I once conducted a very long correspondence w/ a new but in my opinion very good writer I had met at school. It was kooky, especially on my end, bec. I was using our correspondence to hone paragraphs and sentences after a long hiatus and going against my tendency to write minimally, a tendency she remembered. Imagine her surprise, when I started sending long block paragraphs -- my paragraphs used to look nothing like that, were more like scant poems -- pages long, in email, daily! She was good enough to keep up w/ it and let me ramble. It was essay I was writing to her, really, and there are reams of it. I'd like to have an editor take a look at it and pull a book out of it. Her letters were daily, too, and described soup she cooked and hikes she took and eventually her courtship and new baby. In close friendships, I let the other person decide how much or how little email we'll write together, because of my tendency to write too much (in the past), and w/ the realization that busy lives -- busy w/ books and print -- sometimes preclude too much extra writing. This is so true especially for writers, who may wish to save their writing energy for books. Also, there is a privacy issue at stake in personal correspondence, one that I won't go into here except to say I usu. save but do not forward mail written to me nor would I touch for publishing purposes someone's else's work in letters. I didn't realize writers and editors were famous ahead of time. I thought if you had to explain who they were, they weren't famous, but that isn't true. One more note, I have sent fan material to a famous musician, and he doesn't write back, but I used to see him around, and we'd always greet. AMB **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 20:40:16 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: 20th Century Long Poems In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline > Ranger's pretty long. > -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly@gmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 01:29:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Intimacy Chat Transcription MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Intimacy Chat Transcription Transcript of Intimacy Session December 8, 2007, England Participants: Sandy Baldwin ("You"), Alan Sondheim (Alan Dojoji) Premise: Discussion of avatar theory and practice. (Please check this out - the event was excellent and the chat covers a great deal of the theoretical/practical work we've been doing.) http://www.alansondheim.org/intimacy_chat.txt Check out the blog for the event: http://avatarpaste.blogspot.com - there are images from the session here. Images also at: http://www.alansondheim.org/intimacy05.jpg http://www.alansondheim.org/intimacy06.jpg http://www.alansondheim.org/intimacy07.jpg http://www.alansondheim.org/intimacy08.jpg http://www.alansondheim.org/intimacy09.jpg http://www.alansondheim.org/intimacy10.jpg http://www.alansondheim.org/intimacy11.jpg Partial description: "WORKSHOP: AVATAR PASTE AND CODE SOUP IN FIRST AND SECOND LIFE "14:00-18:00 www.secondlife.com - FREE book via email to drp01mc (at) "gold.ac.uk "Leaders: ASS. PROF. SANDY BALDWIN, West Virginia University & ALAN "SONDHEIM This workshop will take place in the virtual world Second Life, and will be conducted by Alan Sondheim and Sandy Baldwin, with participation by other artists and performers in Second Life. Participants from the Intimacy conference will be supplied with location and others details within Second Life. The workshop emerges from Sondheim and Baldwin's ongoing exploration of analog and digital bodies, using a range of technologies to remap the solid and obdurate real of bodies into the dispersions and virtualities of the digital, and then back again into real physical spaces. The "avatar paste" of the title means at least three things. Firstly, the pasting of viewpoints together, the suturing of the subject into the avatar. Secondly, paste as glue, as half-liquid and half solid, as a materiality of renewable and infinite pliability. This is the chora of the avatar, the body matrix that is less a framework than a smearing of paste. And thirdly, paste as pasty and dis/comfortable substance, paste as slimy and dripping. While this abjection is already implicit in paste as glue, the pastiness of paste involves the projection and dreaming through of the avatar, the inhabitation of avatar bodies and the emptying of real bodies into the avatar. "Avatar paste" comes out in avatar motions and behaviors. Firstly, these are formed by symbolic orders, presenting surfaces to read in terms of sexuality, power, emotion, and other projections. At the same time, the pasty avatar body tends towards collapse and abjection. Work on the avatar becomes a choreography of exposure and rupture, modeling and presenting inconceivable and untenable data, within which tensions and relationships are immediate and intimate. One might imagine, then, this inconceivable data as a form of organism itself: as part of a natural world or a world already given; out of this we might think through new ideas of landscape, wilderness, hard ecology, the earth itself. The workshop will theorize and demonstrate these topics. The first part discusses theoretical frameworks. Alan Sondheim will introduce the topic of dismemberment and telepresence in terms of the presence or appearance of abjection in Second Life avatars. He will connect this to the epistemology of emptiness vis-a-vis sheave theory and Buddhist philosophy, and then to the problems of motion and behavior of avatars. Sandy Baldwin will discuss the topography of limits in Second Life, both body limits and spatial limits, an connect this to issues of the hunt and animal display. He will also discuss the dynamics of performance and audience in Second Life. The second part of the workshop will show off Sondheim and Baldwin's approach to re-mapping live bodies into Second Life performances, includ- ing: video and other examples of motion capture and scanning; intermediate processing of files (e.g. editing .bvh data or working with Blender); and then the resulting works, including documents of Second Life performances and re-mappings back into "first life" spaces with dancers and other live performers. The final part of the workshop will include avatar performance by Sondheim, Baldwin, and other participants in Second Life. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 03:36:59 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: Re: 20th Century Long Poems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It's probably something written by someone schizophrenic none of us has ever heard of in a room somewhere that he or she rarely leaves...maybe it's brilliant and maybe it's just maddening writing, but that's where my mental money is going...my riend David (who was schizophrenic...he later just vanished) could sometimes write 200 pages of poetry or prose in a weekend (of course he usually destroyed this two weeks later when the voices told him to)....he would usually start this by getting a pile of like fifteen books of philosophy from the State Library....the little bits of his writing he would let me read sort of sent me into alternate brain waves instantly but then he'd snap the notebooks shut...how much of this was plagiarism or reverbigeration I have no idea....but i've always filed those kinds of occurrences under the rubric of angelism or manic angelism...kind of like muhammad hearing that chiming of the bell in the cave that went on and on, continuously chiming and speaking at the same time...I'm thinking along the lines of a Darger (although that's slightly different)...that kind of obsession can go for decades....but as to known long poems by recognized poets...how long is A? does it beat the Cantos in page count...certainly it beats them in splendor...is there a hidden English or American Mahabharata that generations of poets have been hiding? Now would be the time to bring it out. :-) **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 00:06:44 +1300 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wystan Curnow Subject: Re: 20th century long poems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Surely Ron Silliman's The Alphabet is a candidate--at least most of it = was published last century. Wystan ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 03:18:06 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: "Louis Pasteur is born!" (biopics) from Vidocq to Hammett from Richard III to Johnny Rotten In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear Murat-- in honor of the birth of the new child who "is born" of the subject title-- here is a quote from the one for whom that child was father to the man-- "Where observation is concerned, chance favors only the prepared mind." -- Louis Pasteur Many thanks for your kinds words. I had to stop listing films as if one doesn't-- . . . Also thank you to Barry for reminding me the name of the film I mentioned with Humphrey Bogart as the screenplay writer is In a Lonely Place, a Nicholas Ray masterpiece-- There's also Schrader's Mishima, Godard's Le Mepris (Contempt, from the Moravia novel--writer Michel Piccoli is hired to do a screenplay for a new film version of The Odyssey, to be directed by Fritz Lang, who quotes "BB"( Bertolt Brecht) as a joke on "BB" Brigite Bardot who plays Piccoli's wife and finds contempt for him for selling out his talents to Ugly American producer Jack Palance) and a not particularly good but fun film "about" the Marquis de Sade (played by with great bravado by Jeremy Rush)--a joke in this film is that each time the Marquis is about to write--in a descending order of ink, wine, blood, feces--he hums delightedly "Au Clair de la lune"--which has the well known lines "pretes ma ta plume/pour ecrire un mot"-literally---"bring me your quill/so I can write a word"-- (which song ever since seeing the film i often find myself humming or singing when setting to work--) there are hundreds more writers in films----- re Hammett--a very interesting film could be made not only about him, but about a sort of series of reincarnations of the public/private investigator turned writer of detective stories--and, in Hammett's case, not only directly affected cinema, but also radio series and comic strips literally drawn from his characters--and in which he had hand-- (Wim Wenders made the fictional Hammett (1982)--Hammett involved in solving a murder-) Hammett had been an employee of the Pinkerton Agency--which furnished the "Continental Op" with a lot of the material in his early stories and his first novel, the great Red Harvest-- his first assignment was to find a missing Ferris wheel-- disappeared from a carnival in his native Maryland-- Pinkerton himself had been also a writer of detective and crime novels-- though not the first of these-- (reacting to things he had witnessed while working for Pinkerton, the agency often employed against labor strikes and leaders--Hammett became a Communist and though having served in WW2 as an Army newspaper editor and being a vet of WW1--later served prison time in the ugly HUAC year--in the film Julia, supposedly based on Lillian Hellman's controversial/supposed memoirs, Hammett, her lover of 30 years, is portrayed by Jason Robards) The original of both the historical and fictional police detective, private detective, master criminal and detective story writer is Eugene Francois Vidocq, (1775-1857) one the most extraordinary persons anytime, anywhere, whose biography, inventions, influences singlehandedly have affected profoundly history, literature, cinema, radio, comics --the world over-- as criminal and police detective, Vidocq inspired BOTH Javert and Jean Valjean in Hugo's Les Miserables, as criminal, Balzac's Vautrin, (Balzac is reputed to have contributed writing to one of Vidocq's own crime novels) and as the founder of the first private detective agency, provided a model for Poe's Dupin and Doyle's Sherlock Holmes.-- He's discussed in Poe's "Murders in the Rue Morgue" and Melville's Moby Dick-- and inspired the escaped convict turned benefactor in Dickens' Great Expectations-- Vautrin was a renowned escape artist--once eluding the guillotine itself, at age 17--he had killed three guards too roughly dragging two noble women to the guillotine-and been in turn sentenced to the same fate-awaiting this in one the worst hell holes in France-- Acting on the axiom "it takes a thief to catch a thief"-while still an unpardoned convict---he founded the Parisian Surete and later in life Le Bureau des Renseignments-- the first private detective agency----( also a credit agency--) he created modern criminology , introducing ballistics, the index file system for information and records on known criminals, the first use of plaster molds for impressions of foot/shoe prints, inventing and briefly manufacturing forge-proof paper and indelible ink, and developed the use of undercover agents and training in surveillance techniques- -His employment of the most realistic disguise and acting in this regard--he is probably one of the greatest actors never to have appeared on stage--having been perfected during years of being on the run from the law--(at one point under the name of Rousseau)-- In his periods between flights Vidocq lived the life of a good citizen--but when the past caught up to him, protean, he would be forced to adopt another identity, another physical transformation, not only in dress, speech, but gestures, gait, tics as well--molding himself into an "other"--until detected by chance and again having to chameleon-like change into yet another identity-- He was such a good actor that, as police detective infiltrating a gang of super-robbers, their leader enlisted him as his personal accomplice in the planned murder of---none other than the great Vidocq himself! With the gang leader, Vidocq awaited his own self to emerge from his own concealed address, which the crime boss had somehow discovered---and waited and waited--and, having failed to bump himself off, was not long after arresting his "boss"--appearing as his "real" self, Vidocq the still living police detective-- Vidocq's memoirs were a huge bestseller in France, and a year later, in England, inspiring a whole series of popular stage adaptations--and Charles Dickens-- One of Vidocq's methods was to employ and train almost entirely ex-convicts he hand picked, a controversial move which resulted in his being tried at one point for having betrayed his trust as Surete head and, only acting his official part, returned to crime in a reverse "undercover" operation-- framed by jealous highers-up in the police hierarchy, the head of the Surete was once again thrown into a hell hole--where many he had arrested awaited him--when the trial finally took place, Vidocq was acquitted, his reputation for honesty and good citizenship intact-- Vidocq was a popular hero of primarily the working classes--despised and feared by many in "higher circles" for his humble origins and his criminal past-- during the period of the "Restoration"--one of Vidocq's specialties was the exposing and arrest of many returning "noblesse oblige" poseurs supplied with false documents, forgeries, and who were claiming privileges and the recovery of former wealth and estates not their own-- In his hiring of ex-convicts, Vidocq was also a unique example of a new form of philanthropist. He was a believer in the innate goodness of humans, the reformation of convicts and their restoral as "good citizens of France," based on the example of himself. Vidocq's life and crime novels and tales influenced also Eugene Sue and Dostoyevsky. He also led to the founding, in England, of the first collection/museum of crime and detective works, artefacts etc. His life story in an any given year would make a film in itself-(Vidocq, with Gerard Depardieu, 2001 i have yet to see--) -by turns an honest businessman under assumed names, an heroic member of Napoleon's fleet, a highly valued solider, a member of the worst criminal circles, a forger, robber, single handed killer (at 14 he accidentally killed a man in a duel--and, fleeing, began his outlaw life--killing more in more duels along the way--)-and as-inmate and escapee of some of the worst prisons of the times, a galley slave of privateers-- Vidocq is the site of origin of a protean proliferation of continually recurring series of authors, actors, disguises, alter egos, fictional and real--of police detectives, private eyes, Continental ops, master criminals, reformed criminals--shifting in and out of character as writers of stories, novels, memoirs, non-fiction works and in turn invading the cinema--tv-video games, comic strips, paintings--and real life crime scenes-- Vidocq, who hid himself while on the lam and disguised his identity undercover--the sought after and the seeker by turns--making a name for himself by hiding under other names--this person who so frequently sought an anonymity--has turned up for a hundred fifty years --everywhere--on street corners, in offices, on shelves in bookstores--on screens the world over--disguised as a police detective, a criminal, a private eye, and undercover agent, an actor, a writer-- Re Richard the III--in PBS' very good documentary series on the History of Rock and Roll--(which interviews musicians only--no pontificating critics and self serving producers)-- Johnny Lydon aka Rotten reveals that his stage style was completely based on Olivier's performance in the film of the Shakespeare play-- clips of Olivier and Rotten are played one after the other--and--indeed!! Johnny Rotten is the reincarnation of Richard the Third as "captured on film"!-- For cannot one hear Johnny singing this proto-Vidoquian soliloquy of disguise and literary allusions in his best "Anarchy in the UK," "I am an anarchist/I am an Anti-Christ" voice: Why, I can smile, and murder whiles I smile, And cry 'Content' to that which grieves my heart, And wet my cheeks with artificial tears, And frame my face to all occasions. I'll drown more sailors than the mermaid shall; I'll slay more gazers than the basilisk; I'll play the orator as well as Nestor, Deceive more slily than Ulysses could, And, like a Sinon, take another Troy. I can add colours to the chameleon, Change shapes with Proteus for advantages, And set the murderous Machiavel to school. Can I do this, and cannot get a crown? Tut, were it farther off, I'll pluck it down. and then "Anarchy in the UK"'s final line: "DESTROY"!!!!!!!! On Dec 6, 2007 6:03 PM, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > David, > > Your list is absolutely breathtaking, and your analyses of Richard the Third > and the writer as the script writer and director, directing the audience, > even more. > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 07:12:12 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Re: 20th century long poems In-Reply-To: <859551.78664.qm@web52406.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v915) Ted Enslin's FORMS is 602 pages his SYNTHESIS is 490 pages vol I of his RANGER is 430 pages (vol. 2 went awol from my shelves) but I remember it as being a bit shorter then vol. 1, so it might well bring the total RANGER to some 800 pages. Vernon Frazer's IMPROVISATIONS is 697 pages Charles Olson's MAXIMUS is 635 pages Robert Kelly's LOOM is 415 pages Allen Fisher's PLACE is 407 pages The first two volumes of his GRAVITY AS A CONSEQUENCE OF SHAPE come to 545 pages, with one further volume to come out, so that poem could top 800 pages. Alice Notley's ALMA is 344 pages Anne Waldman's IOVIS (vol. 1& 2) is 647 pages Frank Samperi's trilogy (THE PREFIGURATION, QUADRIFARIAM & LUMEN GLORIAE) should br considered a long poem. The pages are unumbered, but the three vols shld come to between 500 and 600 pages. The 3 volumes of Ed Sander's AMERICA, A HISTORY IN VERSE come to 1014 pages. & I forget some. It's not all in a day's work, Pierre On Dec 8, 2007, at 6:52 PM, steve russell wrote: > I forgot to mention "The Triumph of Love" by Geoffrey Hill. This > poem may not be as lengthy as those I've mentioned on my previous > post, but it's worth looking at. Besides, it's an example of a non- > American 20th century long poem written in English. > > > --------------------------------- > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! > Search. ___________________________________________________________ The poet: always in partibus infidelium -- Paul Celan ___________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris 244 Elm Street Albany NY 12202 h: 518 426 0433 c: 518 225 7123 o: 518 442 40 71 Euro cell: (011 33) 6 75 43 57 10 email: joris@albany.edu http://pierrejoris.com Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com ____________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 09:41:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Zimmerman Subject: Re: 20th Century Long Poems Comments: cc: Daniel Zimmerman MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=response Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Raymond Queneau's Cent Mille Milliards de Poèmes, comprising one hundred trillion (1014) poems? ~ Dan Zimmerman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Alexander" To: Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 4:57 PM Subject: Re: 20th Century Long Poems >I don't think either of those is as long as either The Cantos or The >Maximus Poems. I would imagine bpNichol's 9-volume The Martyrology would >have to enter the conversation as being possibly the longest, but there >must be others as well. One of them, perhaps, Frank Stanford's 524-page >The Battlefield Where the Moon Says I Love you? > > Also, are you going to measure "longest" by number of lines, number of > pages, word count, or what? If by pages, mss. pages or printers' pages? > > Can a very tiny short poem be long? Why not! > > charles > > charles alexander > chax press > chax@theriver.com > 650 e. ninth st. > tucson arizona 8505 > 520 620 1626 > > > > > On Dec 8, 2007, at 10:33 AM, Patrick Duggan wrote: > >> Well, *The Dream Songs* (John Berryman) is considered a book length >> poem, as >> is James Schuyler's *Morning Of The Poem *and Joe Brainard's *I >> Remember*. >> Though can't say what the absolute longest is. >> >> On Dec 7, 2007 7:43 PM, ric carfagna wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> I was wondering if anyone would know what would be >>> considered the longest poem written in English in the 20th century. >>> Thanks, >>> Ric >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Patrick Duggan >> Idiolexicon ( http://www.idiolexicon.com ) >> ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 06:52:46 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Kasimor Subject: anti-heroes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I am thinking of teaching a freshman compostion class with a "hero and anti-hero" theme. Most of my students are not great readers, so it can't be a philosophical tome (although who knows? I may be surprised.) Does anyone have any good ideas for a book about or on "anti-hero" Thanks. Mary Kasimor --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 11:24:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stuart Ross Subject: Re: anti-heroes In-Reply-To: <204112.49778.qm@web51809.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The Talented Mr. Ripley, by Patricia Highsmith On 12/9/07 9:52 AM, "Mary Kasimor" wrote: > I am thinking of teaching a freshman compostion class with a "hero and > anti-hero" theme. Most of my students are not great readers, so it can't be a > philosophical tome (although who knows? I may be surprised.) Does anyone have > any good ideas for a book about or on "anti-hero" > > Thanks. > > Mary Kasimor > > > --------------------------------- > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 11:32:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Zimmerman Subject: Re: anti-heroes Comments: cc: Daniel Zimmerman MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Gilgamesh. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Kasimor" To: Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 9:52 AM Subject: anti-heroes >I am thinking of teaching a freshman compostion class with a "hero and >anti-hero" theme. Most of my students are not great readers, so it can't be >a philosophical tome (although who knows? I may be surprised.) Does anyone >have any good ideas for a book about or on "anti-hero" > > Thanks. > > Mary Kasimor > > > --------------------------------- > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! > Search. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 11:57:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: gloom. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed gloom. gloom. defuge. the radio comes on in the room. the radio whispers in the room. it speaks the unspeakable. i can't keep this up, it says. this world is far too tired, it says. the world can't do anything more. the world tried over and over. nothing worked. the world is exhausted. the world doesn't need the radio. night. the computer's gone to sleep. there's nothing online. there never is. there is no subsequence-consequence. gloom of cold rain. gloom of cold. i don't want to touch myself. i don't want to touch anything. i sleep on this floor. there are no noises in this place. i know i am wise. i am wise because there is no substance. there is no consequence-subsequence. there is nothing to release. dead phone. keyboard disconnect. defuge of supine body. defuge of dead air. defuge of radio whisper. the floor is exhausted. the ceiling is exhausted. the wall is exhausted. i leave the skin. i take the skin. the radio. http://www.alansondheim.org/defuge4.mp4 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 11:35:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eric Weinstein Subject: Re: anti-heroes In-Reply-To: <204112.49778.qm@web51809.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Mary, I think Harold Lubin edited an anthology titled "Heroes and Anti-Heroes: A Reader In-Depth." The book may be out of print, though, since I think it was published in 1968 (somewhat before my time). I'll try and think of something more contemporary/available. Best, Eric Weinstein On Dec 9, 2007 9:52 AM, Mary Kasimor wrote: > I am thinking of teaching a freshman compostion class with a "hero and > anti-hero" theme. Most of my students are not great readers, so it can't be > a philosophical tome (although who knows? I may be surprised.) Does anyone > have any good ideas for a book about or on "anti-hero" > > Thanks. > > Mary Kasimor > > > --------------------------------- > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! > Search. > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 17:57:41 +0000 Reply-To: kimberleyrogers@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kimberley Rogers Subject: Re: anti-heroes In-Reply-To: <204112.49778.qm@web51809.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Wuthering Heights and/or Villette Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Mary Kasimor Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 06:52:46 To:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: anti-heroes I am thinking of teaching a freshman compostion class with a "hero and anti-hero" theme. Most of my students are not great readers, so it can't be a philosophical tome (although who knows? I may be surprised.) Does anyone have any good ideas for a book about or on "anti-hero" Thanks. Mary Kasimor --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 11:25:28 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Alexander Subject: Re: anti-heroes In-Reply-To: <204112.49778.qm@web51809.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Notes from Underground, Dostoevsky, for a terrific example of anti- hero. Influential, I think, on practically everything of anti-hero since. And for a more "pop" approach, the Clint Eastwood Italian westerns, i.e. A Fistful of Dollars, For a Few Dollars More, & The Good, The Bad, & The Ugly. I am not up on critical works on the notion of the "anti-hero." charles charles alexander chax press chax@theriver.com 650 e. ninth st. tucson arizona 8505 520 620 1626 On Dec 9, 2007, at 7:52 AM, Mary Kasimor wrote: > I am thinking of teaching a freshman compostion class with a "hero > and anti-hero" theme. Most of my students are not great readers, so > it can't be a philosophical tome (although who knows? I may be > surprised.) Does anyone have any good ideas for a book about or on > "anti-hero" > > Thanks. > > Mary Kasimor > > > --------------------------------- > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! > Search. > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 08:57:02 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Susan Webster Schultz Subject: Sidewalk blog: Christmas kitsch edition MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A friend passed on some old Christmas lawn signs; I've doctored them and turned them into sidewalk blog signs. Enjoy the spirit of the season-- http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=21060&l=285f3&id=654553661 aloha, S. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 10:59:15 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Kasimor Subject: Re: anti-heroes In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Eric, I just checked the Lubin anthology on Amazon, and there are only a few copies floating around there. That is the kind of book that would work for my class (although it is probably outdated). I'll do a google search and see if I can find anything. Thank you. Mary Eric Weinstein wrote: Mary, I think Harold Lubin edited an anthology titled "Heroes and Anti-Heroes: A Reader In-Depth." The book may be out of print, though, since I think it was published in 1968 (somewhat before my time). I'll try and think of something more contemporary/available. Best, Eric Weinstein On Dec 9, 2007 9:52 AM, Mary Kasimor wrote: > I am thinking of teaching a freshman compostion class with a "hero and > anti-hero" theme. Most of my students are not great readers, so it can't be > a philosophical tome (although who knows? I may be surprised.) Does anyone > have any good ideas for a book about or on "anti-hero" > > Thanks. > > Mary Kasimor > > > --------------------------------- > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! > Search. > --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 14:29:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Re: 20th century long poems In-Reply-To: <79C7F1AF-DBC4-48F0-9FCE-73CF2D66B8ED@mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v915) Weirdly forgot to mention the long poem I am in the process of reading the new volume of: Rachel Blau DuPlessis, DRAFTS, stands so far at 625 pages distributed over three volume. On Dec 9, 2007, at 7:12 AM, Pierre Joris wrote: > Ted Enslin's FORMS is 602 pages > his SYNTHESIS is 490 pages > vol I of his RANGER is 430 pages (vol. 2 went awol from my shelves) > but I remember it as being a bit shorter then vol. 1, so it might > well bring the total RANGER to some 800 pages. > > Vernon Frazer's IMPROVISATIONS is 697 pages > > Charles Olson's MAXIMUS is 635 pages > > Robert Kelly's LOOM is 415 pages > > Allen Fisher's PLACE is 407 pages > The first two volumes of his GRAVITY AS A CONSEQUENCE OF SHAPE come > to 545 pages, with one further volume to come out, so that poem > could top 800 pages. > > Alice Notley's ALMA is 344 pages > > Anne Waldman's IOVIS (vol. 1& 2) is 647 pages > > Frank Samperi's trilogy (THE PREFIGURATION, QUADRIFARIAM & LUMEN > GLORIAE) should br considered a long poem. The pages are unumbered, > but the three vols shld come to between 500 and 600 pages. > > The 3 volumes of Ed Sander's AMERICA, A HISTORY IN VERSE come to > 1014 pages. > > & I forget some. > > It's not all in a day's work, > > Pierre > > On Dec 8, 2007, at 6:52 PM, steve russell wrote: > >> I forgot to mention "The Triumph of Love" by Geoffrey Hill. This >> poem may not be as lengthy as those I've mentioned on my previous >> post, but it's worth looking at. Besides, it's an example of a non- >> American 20th century long poem written in English. >> >> >> --------------------------------- >> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! >> Search. > > ___________________________________________________________ > > The poet: always in partibus infidelium -- Paul Celan > ___________________________________________________________ > Pierre Joris > 244 Elm Street > Albany NY 12202 > h: 518 426 0433 > c: 518 225 7123 > o: 518 442 40 71 > Euro cell: (011 33) 6 75 43 57 10 > email: joris@albany.edu > http://pierrejoris.com > Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com > ____________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ The poet: always in partibus infidelium -- Paul Celan ___________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris 244 Elm Street Albany NY 12202 h: 518 426 0433 c: 518 225 7123 o: 518 442 40 71 Euro cell: (011 33) 6 75 43 57 10 email: joris@albany.edu http://pierrejoris.com Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com ____________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 14:48:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ryan Daley Subject: Re: anti-heroes In-Reply-To: <204112.49778.qm@web51809.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Catcher in the Rye comes to mind, for that level of reading. If they're more advanced, I'd say, A Fan's Notes, by Frederick Exley. -Ryan On Dec 9, 2007 9:52 AM, Mary Kasimor wrote: > I am thinking of teaching a freshman compostion class with a "hero and > anti-hero" theme. Most of my students are not great readers, so it can't be > a philosophical tome (although who knows? I may be surprised.) Does anyone > have any good ideas for a book about or on "anti-hero" > > Thanks. > > Mary Kasimor > > > --------------------------------- > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! > Search. > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 12:12:17 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: patrick dunagan Subject: Re: anti-heroes In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Grendel by John Gardner 2007/12/9, Eric Weinstein : > > Mary, > > I think Harold Lubin edited an anthology titled "Heroes and Anti-Heroes: A > Reader In-Depth." The book may be out of print, though, since I think it > was > published in 1968 (somewhat before my time). I'll try and think of > something > more contemporary/available. > > > Best, > > Eric Weinstein > > > On Dec 9, 2007 9:52 AM, Mary Kasimor wrote: > > > I am thinking of teaching a freshman compostion class with a "hero and > > anti-hero" theme. Most of my students are not great readers, so it can't > be > > a philosophical tome (although who knows? I may be surprised.) Does > anyone > > have any good ideas for a book about or on "anti-hero" > > > > Thanks. > > > > Mary Kasimor > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! > > Search. > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 12:33:34 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: 20th century long poems In-Reply-To: <79C7F1AF-DBC4-48F0-9FCE-73CF2D66B8ED@mac.com> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Zuk's A is 826 pages. Why this shunning of it? gb On Dec 9, 2007, at 4:12 AM, Pierre Joris wrote: > Ted Enslin's FORMS is 602 pages > his SYNTHESIS is 490 pages > vol I of his RANGER is 430 pages (vol. 2 went awol from my shelves) > but I remember it as being a bit shorter then vol. 1, so it might well > bring the total RANGER to some 800 pages. > > Vernon Frazer's IMPROVISATIONS is 697 pages > > Charles Olson's MAXIMUS is 635 pages > > Robert Kelly's LOOM is 415 pages > > Allen Fisher's PLACE is 407 pages > The first two volumes of his GRAVITY AS A CONSEQUENCE OF SHAPE come to > 545 pages, with one further volume to come out, so that poem could top > 800 pages. > > Alice Notley's ALMA is 344 pages > > Anne Waldman's IOVIS (vol. 1& 2) is 647 pages > > Frank Samperi's trilogy (THE PREFIGURATION, QUADRIFARIAM & LUMEN > GLORIAE) should br considered a long poem. The pages are unumbered, > but the three vols shld come to between 500 and 600 pages. > > The 3 volumes of Ed Sander's AMERICA, A HISTORY IN VERSE come to 1014 > pages. > > & I forget some. > > It's not all in a day's work, > > Pierre > > On Dec 8, 2007, at 6:52 PM, steve russell wrote: > >> I forgot to mention "The Triumph of Love" by Geoffrey Hill. This poem >> may not be as lengthy as those I've mentioned on my previous post, >> but it's worth looking at. Besides, it's an example of a non-American >> 20th century long poem written in English. >> >> >> --------------------------------- >> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! >> Search. > > ___________________________________________________________ > > The poet: always in partibus infidelium -- Paul Celan > ___________________________________________________________ > Pierre Joris > 244 Elm Street > Albany NY 12202 > h: 518 426 0433 > c: 518 225 7123 > o: 518 442 40 71 > Euro cell: (011 33) 6 75 43 57 10 > email: joris@albany.edu > http://pierrejoris.com > Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com > ____________________________________________________________ > > Geo. H. Bowering Adaptable yet reliable. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 16:18:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Camille Martin Subject: Sound Poetry, Tuesday on CKLN-FM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please tune in to Ryerson University's CKLN-FM 88.1 (Toronto) on = Tuesday, December 11, from 2-3 pm. I'll be guest-hosting In Other Words. For this program, I'll play, side-by-side, folk traditions of sound = singing with dada and other sound poetry performances: Annie Johnston, a = Scottish woman doing bird imitations, alongside Giacomo Balla's futurist = magical nonsense; Tuvan throat singers alongside contemporary sound poet = Sainkho Namtchylak (some of these are from Jerome Rothenberg's wonderful = Ethnopoetics anthology on ubu.com). I'll also feature works by mIEKAL = aND, Funginii (Michael Basinski and friends), cris cheek, Jackson Mac = Low and Anne Tardos, Robert Ashley, Vernon Frazer, and Robert Creeley = with Lake Affect (or however much time will allow). =20 The link for online listening: http://www.ckln.fm =20 Camille Martin =20 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 15:52:13 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Crockett Subject: One Laptop Per Child ___ Give One Get One thru 12/31/07 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline http://www.laptopgiving.org/en/index.php ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 14:35:58 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joan Waltemath Subject: Re: The young shooter of Omaha... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here are a few things that I could add about the Omaha shootings. Being a native Nebraskan I was aware that von Maur is the chic-est department store in the Omaha area. To choose that particular store at the height of the consumer season seems significant. Also Bush visited town and left shortly before the incident. While that fact was mentioned on the news, the awareness that many people out there were pretty horrified that Bush fled to Offett Air Force base in Bellevue just south of Omaha during the September eleven attack is something that wouldn't fit in a news brief. Context is not separate from what happened there, yet how do we know if/when it's accountable either? Joan Waltemath On Saturday, December 08, 2007, at 03:54PM, "Gabrielle Welford" wrote: >yes, i remember someone writing that after columbine--we point fingers at >the young, when at that time i think clinton had ordered the bombing of >yugoslavia, and as you say, now look at us. it's more than a million dead >now. i surely wish it wasn't "us." g > >On Fri, 7 Dec 2007, CA Conrad wrote: > >> The young shooter of Omaha is mentioned with such statements by reporters, >> "We're such a violent nation," true, but then they go on with comparisons to >> Virginia Tech, or Columbine. >> >> Which makes sense. But shouldn't they also be saying, "Yes, look at what >> we're doing in Iraq!" >> >> "We're such a violent nation, I mean look at what we're doing in Iraq! >> Almost a million people dead!" >> >> No one says this. It's taboo. >> >> CAConrad >> http://PhillySound.blogspot.com >> > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 15:09:33 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Kasimor Subject: Re: anti-heroes In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Charles, Nor am I. I think that anti-hero can be defined in different ways. Clint Eastwood's movies are a good example. Roberto Bolano's Savage Detectives is a wonderful example, but it is very very long. (Very few of my students are readers. (sigh). Mary Charles Alexander wrote: Notes from Underground, Dostoevsky, for a terrific example of anti- hero. Influential, I think, on practically everything of anti-hero since. And for a more "pop" approach, the Clint Eastwood Italian westerns, i.e. A Fistful of Dollars, For a Few Dollars More, & The Good, The Bad, & The Ugly. I am not up on critical works on the notion of the "anti-hero." charles charles alexander chax press chax@theriver.com 650 e. ninth st. tucson arizona 8505 520 620 1626 On Dec 9, 2007, at 7:52 AM, Mary Kasimor wrote: > I am thinking of teaching a freshman compostion class with a "hero > and anti-hero" theme. Most of my students are not great readers, so > it can't be a philosophical tome (although who knows? I may be > surprised.) Does anyone have any good ideas for a book about or on > "anti-hero" > > Thanks. > > Mary Kasimor > > > --------------------------------- > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! > Search. > --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 18:28:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: [Fwd: Exhibition of Art by Writers: The Writer's Brush] Comments: To: british-irish-poets@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, poetryetc@jiscmail.ac.uk, UKPOETRY@LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed For those in the Cambridge MA area, this from Robert Kelly. >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > > >The Writer's Brush > >An Exhibition of Art by Writers > >15 December 2007 through 15 January 2007 > >Opening Reception 15 December 6-10 (or longer if we can stand it): > >Dear Friends and Colleagues, >We are pleased (neigh unto delighted) to announce our next >exhibition, a monumental show of visual art by writers, mounted in >conjunction with the publication of the wonderful new book on the >subject, entitled The Writer's Brush, by Donald Friedman, with >supplementary essays by John Updike and William Gass (see the >wonderful review in this week's New York Times Book Review). > >The first leg of the show took place in New York in September and >October at Anita Shapolsky Gallery, and our show is an expanded (and >I hope improved) version of that event. It will run from the 15th >of December through the 15th of January, with an opening reception >on 15 December, at which Mr. Friedman and some of the writer/artists >will be present and happy to sign or inscribe books. The show will >go to Los Angeles from mid-February through mid-April at Denenberg >Fine Arts (with a reception during the Los Angeles Antiquarian Book >Fair), and perhaps then on to Houston. It will contain work by more >than 120 writers, including >Walter Abish, Rafael Alberti, Roberta Allen, A.R. Ammons, John >Ashbery, Enid Bagnold, Amiri Baraka, Djuna Barnes, Mary Beach, >Andrei Bely, Bill Berkson, Ted Berrigan, Elizabeth Bishop, Star >Black, Jorge Louis Borges, Breyten Breytenbach, Joseph Brodsky, >Charles Bukowski, Gelett Burgess, David Burliuk, William Burroughs, >Josef Capek, R.V. Cassill, G.K. Chesterton, Tom Clark, Daniel >Clowes, Jean Cocteau, Norma Cole, Douglas Coupland, Morris Cox, Jim >Crace, E.E. Cummings, Annie Dillard, J.P. Donleavy, John Dos Passos, >Rikki Ducornet, Robert Duncan, Lawrence Durrell, Russell Edson, >David Eggers, Kenward Elmslie, Mary Fabelli, Jules Feiffer, Lawrence >Ferlinghetti, Jacopo Fijman, Charles Henri Ford, Federico Garcia >Lorca, Kahlil Gibran, Charlotte Perkins Gilman, Allen Ginsberg, >Louise Gluck, Guenter Grass, Alasdair Gray, Nicolai Gumilov, Alan >Gurganus, Brion Gysin, Donald Harrington, Hermann Hesse, Jack >Hirschman, Susan Howe, Georges Hugnet, Victor Hugo, Aldous Huxley, >Tama Janowitz, Charles Johnson, Donald Justice, Anna Kavan, Weldon >Kees, Robert Kelly, Jack Kerouac, Maxine Hong Kingston, Bill Knott, >Richard Kostelanetz, Alfred Kubin, D.H. Lawrence, Jonathan Lethem, >Wyndham Lewis, Pierre Louys, Mina Loy, Lucebert, Clarence Major, >Gerard Malanga, Andre Malraux, Robert Marshall, Henri Michaux, >Leonard Michaels, Henri Michaux, Henry Miller, Susan Minot, Bradford >Morrow, Walter Mosley, Vladimir Nabokov, Hugh Nissensen, Clifford >Odets, Fernando del Paso, Kenneth Patchen, Mervyn Peake, Claude >Pellieu, Francisco Picabia, Alexandra Pizarnik, Sylvia Plath, >Beatrix Potter, Annie Proulx, James Purdy, Alexei Remizov, Kenneth >Rexroth, Maclaren Ross, Peter Sacks, William Saroyan, Mira Schor, >Maurice Sendak, Charles Simic, Patti Smith, William Jay Smith, Iris >Smyles, Ralph Steadman, Mark Strand, Aldo Tembalini, Igor Terentiev, >Cecilia Thaxter, Ruthven Todd, Frederic Tuten, Josef Vachal, Cecilia >Vicuna, Tino Villanuevo, Kurt Vonnegut, Janwillwem van de Wetering, >Derek Walcott, Keith Waldrop, Rosanna Warren, Lewis Warsh, Denton >Welch, Marjorie Welish, Richard Wilbur, Tennessee Williams, Gahan >Wilson, Stanislaw Witkiewicz and Unica Zuern (and a few others not >all yet committed, if you can imagine that). > >A catalogue will be made for the exhibition, with an introduction by >the magnificent novelist Joseph McElroy. > > >Best wishes, > >John Wronoski > > >Lame Duck Books >Pierre Menard Gallery >10-12 Arrow Street >Cambridge, MA 02138 > >617-868-2022 (bookshop) >617-868-2033 (gallery) >617-407-6271 (mobile) > >www.pierremenardgallery.com >www.lameduckbooks.com > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 15:50:54 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve russell Subject: Re: anti-heroes In-Reply-To: <9778b8630712091148x4f1b6baeq9f0d50a9f531fb9d@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I want to second Exley's "A Fan's Notes." The prose is as lyrical as Fitzgerald's finest, but bawdier. It's a great book. I think someone has already mentioned "Crime & Punishment" & "Notes from the Underground." I read the Dostoevsky books in high school. They may have philosophical weight, but they're fun reads, perfectly compatible for the needs of intro students. There are a couple of Bukowski novels worth looking at. Check out "Ham ON Rye" or "Factotum." They're easy reads. The Buk's prose was simple & solid. His poetry was too often sloppy & monotonous. Ryan Daley wrote: Catcher in the Rye comes to mind, for that level of reading. If they're more advanced, I'd say, A Fan's Notes, by Frederick Exley. -Ryan On Dec 9, 2007 9:52 AM, Mary Kasimor wrote: > I am thinking of teaching a freshman compostion class with a "hero and > anti-hero" theme. Most of my students are not great readers, so it can't be > a philosophical tome (although who knows? I may be surprised.) Does anyone > have any good ideas for a book about or on "anti-hero" > > Thanks. > > Mary Kasimor > > > --------------------------------- > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! > Search. > --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 18:52:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: laura hinton Subject: Re: 20th century long poems In-Reply-To: <859551.78664.qm@web52406.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline As we approach the winter solstice, add to the list Bernadette Mayer's MIDWINTER DAY. On Dec 8, 2007 6:52 PM, steve russell wrote: > I forgot to mention "The Triumph of Love" by Geoffrey Hill. This poem may > not be as lengthy as those I've mentioned on my previous post, but it's > worth looking at. Besides, it's an example of a non-American 20th century > long poem written in English. > > > --------------------------------- > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! > Search. > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 16:11:05 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve russell Subject: Re: anti-heroes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Pick any novel by the late Larry Brown, ex fireman & Southern noveliest, & you'll get some excellent anti-heroes. Start with "Joe," his first novel. --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 18:15:27 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: German composer Stockhausen is Dead In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v915) And the American (US) composer Elliott Carter is still alive and Tuesday (day after tomorrow) is his 99th birthday. Hal "Look at any word long enough and you will see it open up into a series of faults into a terrain of particles each containing its own void." --Robert Smithson Halvard Johnson =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Dec 7, 2007, at 5:10 PM, St. Thomasino wrote: > German composer Stockhausen is dead > > 12/7/2007, 1:54 p.m. EST > > The Associated Press > > BERLIN (AP) =97 Karlheinz Stockhausen, whose electronic works made him = =20 > one of Germany's most important postwar composers, has died, German =20= > state broadcaster ZDF reported Friday. He was 79. > > Stockhausen, who gained fame with avant-garde compositions in the =20 > 1960s and '70s and later moved to huge music theater and other =20 > projects, died Wednesday, ZDF said, citing the Stockhausen Music =20 > Foundation. It gave no cause of death. > > Stockhausen's electronic compositions are a radical departure from =20 > musical tradition and incorporate influences as varied as =20 > psychology, the visual arts and the acoustics of a particular =20 > concert hall. > > Stockhausen was born in the village of Moedrath near Cologne in =20 > western Germany on Aug. 22, 1928. His father was killed in World =20 > War II and his mother also died, leaving him orphaned as a teenager. > > After completing his studies in musicology, philosophy and German =20 > literature at the University of Cologne, he went on to study under =20 > composer Olivier Messiaen in Paris from 1952 to 1953, where he also =20= > met his French contemporary Pierre Boulez. > > Stockhausen wrote more than 280 works, including more than 140 =20 > pieces of electronic or electro-acoustic music and brought out more =20= > than 100 different albums. He was known for conducting nearly all of =20= > the premiere performances of his works. > > The composer is survived by six children from two marriages. =20 > Services were not immediately announced. > > He provoked controversy in 2001 after describing the Sept. 11 =20 > attacks as "the greatest work of art one can imagine" during a news =20= > conference in the northern German city of Hamburger, where several =20 > of the hijackers had lived. The composer later apologized for his =20 > remarks, but the city still canceled performances of his works. > > > posted by gregory vincent st. thomasino > > http://eratio.blogspot.com/ > > e=B7 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 16:36:36 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve russell Subject: Re: The young shooter of Omaha... In-Reply-To: <7E3E31B7-0116-1000-9862-B472ED58DDC6-Webmail-10018@mac.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Name another country where teens decide to step into immortality through the act of killing. We're violent. We're pathologically violent. We're simply weird. I was an angry kid. I'm glad this shit wasn't going on back in my day. Joan Waltemath wrote: Here are a few things that I could add about the Omaha shootings. Being a native Nebraskan I was aware that von Maur is the chic-est department store in the Omaha area. To choose that particular store at the height of the consumer season seems significant. Also Bush visited town and left shortly before the incident. While that fact was mentioned on the news, the awareness that many people out there were pretty horrified that Bush fled to Offett Air Force base in Bellevue just south of Omaha during the September eleven attack is something that wouldn't fit in a news brief. Context is not separate from what happened there, yet how do we know if/when it's accountable either? Joan Waltemath On Saturday, December 08, 2007, at 03:54PM, "Gabrielle Welford" wrote: >yes, i remember someone writing that after columbine--we point fingers at >the young, when at that time i think clinton had ordered the bombing of >yugoslavia, and as you say, now look at us. it's more than a million dead >now. i surely wish it wasn't "us." g > >On Fri, 7 Dec 2007, CA Conrad wrote: > >> The young shooter of Omaha is mentioned with such statements by reporters, >> "We're such a violent nation," true, but then they go on with comparisons to >> Virginia Tech, or Columbine. >> >> Which makes sense. But shouldn't they also be saying, "Yes, look at what >> we're doing in Iraq!" >> >> "We're such a violent nation, I mean look at what we're doing in Iraq! >> Almost a million people dead!" >> >> No one says this. It's taboo. >> >> CAConrad >> http://PhillySound.blogspot.com >> > > --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 18:34:37 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Moffett Subject: Re: 20th century long poems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Though not one of the longest poems, I think one of the most interesting = 20th century long poems is Schwerner's Tablets, which I discuss in my = new book on the lp -- =20 http://www.wvupress.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=3D57&products_id=3D= 97 -- and what about Charles Wright's "Appalachian Book of the Dead" = project which covers basically everything the poet published between = 1970-2000? =20 =20 =20 =20 ________________________________ From: UB Poetics discussion group on behalf of George Bowering Sent: Sun 12/9/2007 2:33 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: 20th century long poems Zuk's A is 826 pages. Why this shunning of it? gb On Dec 9, 2007, at 4:12 AM, Pierre Joris wrote: > Ted Enslin's FORMS is 602 pages > his SYNTHESIS is 490 pages > vol I of his RANGER is 430 pages (vol. 2 went awol from my shelves) > but I remember it as being a bit shorter then vol. 1, so it might well > bring the total RANGER to some 800 pages. > > Vernon Frazer's IMPROVISATIONS is 697 pages > > Charles Olson's MAXIMUS is 635 pages > > Robert Kelly's LOOM is 415 pages > > Allen Fisher's PLACE is 407 pages > The first two volumes of his GRAVITY AS A CONSEQUENCE OF SHAPE come to > 545 pages, with one further volume to come out, so that poem could top > 800 pages. > > Alice Notley's ALMA is 344 pages > > Anne Waldman's IOVIS (vol. 1& 2) is 647 pages > > Frank Samperi's trilogy (THE PREFIGURATION, QUADRIFARIAM & LUMEN > GLORIAE) should br considered a long poem. The pages are unumbered, > but the three vols shld come to between 500 and 600 pages. > > The 3 volumes of Ed Sander's AMERICA, A HISTORY IN VERSE come to 1014 > pages. > > & I forget some. > > It's not all in a day's work, > > Pierre > > On Dec 8, 2007, at 6:52 PM, steve russell wrote: > >> I forgot to mention "The Triumph of Love" by Geoffrey Hill. This poem >> may not be as lengthy as those I've mentioned on my previous post, >> but it's worth looking at. Besides, it's an example of a non-American >> 20th century long poem written in English. >> >> >> --------------------------------- >> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! >> Search. > > ___________________________________________________________ > > The poet: always in partibus infidelium -- Paul Celan > ___________________________________________________________ > Pierre Joris > 244 Elm Street > Albany NY 12202 > h: 518 426 0433 > c: 518 225 7123 > o: 518 442 40 71 > Euro cell: (011 33) 6 75 43 57 10 > email: joris@albany.edu > http://pierrejoris.com =20 > Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com = =20 > ____________________________________________________________ > > Geo. H. Bowering Adaptable yet reliable. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 19:12:29 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: 20th century long poems In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If only we spent this time having real discussions about these titles ... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 17:16:20 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve russell Subject: Re: anti-heroes In-Reply-To: <001401c83a81$0e935d30$0201a8c0@ENITHARMON> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Many of the stories in the bible echoe Gilgamesh. Wouldn't Job be an anti-heroe? Perhaps the ultimate anti-heroe. Daniel Zimmerman wrote: Gilgamesh. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Kasimor" To: Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 9:52 AM Subject: anti-heroes >I am thinking of teaching a freshman compostion class with a "hero and >anti-hero" theme. Most of my students are not great readers, so it can't be >a philosophical tome (although who knows? I may be surprised.) Does anyone >have any good ideas for a book about or on "anti-hero" > > Thanks. > > Mary Kasimor > > > --------------------------------- > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! > Search. --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 20:19:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eric Weinstein Subject: Re: anti-heroes In-Reply-To: <5fabddd10712091212r799173d2x9dbfff1fac1c4927@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I'd cast a vote for Gardner's *Grendel*. *Wuthering Heights* and *Villette*might not be ideal candidates for a class that aren't "great readers," although I did enjoy the former. If there's a sci-fi element at all, Stephen Donaldson's *Chronicles of Thomas Covenant* are great. Best, Eric On Dec 9, 2007 3:12 PM, patrick dunagan wrote: > Grendel by John Gardner > > 2007/12/9, Eric Weinstein : > > > > Mary, > > > > I think Harold Lubin edited an anthology titled "Heroes and Anti-Heroes: > A > > Reader In-Depth." The book may be out of print, though, since I think it > > was > > published in 1968 (somewhat before my time). I'll try and think of > > something > > more contemporary/available. > > > > > > Best, > > > > Eric Weinstein > > > > > > On Dec 9, 2007 9:52 AM, Mary Kasimor wrote: > > > > > I am thinking of teaching a freshman compostion class with a "hero and > > > anti-hero" theme. Most of my students are not great readers, so it > can't > > be > > > a philosophical tome (although who knows? I may be surprised.) Does > > anyone > > > have any good ideas for a book about or on "anti-hero" > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > Mary Kasimor > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! > > > Search. > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 20:20:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eric Weinstein Subject: Re: anti-heroes In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sorry, I'm behind on sleep. By "former" I meant "latter," and by "sci-fi" I meant "fantasy." - E On Dec 9, 2007 8:19 PM, Eric Weinstein wrote: > I'd cast a vote for Gardner's *Grendel*. *Wuthering Heights* and *Villette > * might not be ideal candidates for a class that aren't "great readers," > although I did enjoy the former. If there's a sci-fi element at all, Stephen > Donaldson's *Chronicles of Thomas Covenant* are great. > > > Best, > > Eric > > > > On Dec 9, 2007 3:12 PM, patrick dunagan wrote: > > > Grendel by John Gardner > > > > > > > 2007/12/9, Eric Weinstein : > > > > > > Mary, > > > > > > I think Harold Lubin edited an anthology titled "Heroes and > > Anti-Heroes: A > > > Reader In-Depth." The book may be out of print, though, since I think > > it > > > was > > > published in 1968 (somewhat before my time). I'll try and think of > > > something > > > more contemporary/available. > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > Eric Weinstein > > > > > > > > > On Dec 9, 2007 9:52 AM, Mary Kasimor wrote: > > > > > > > I am thinking of teaching a freshman compostion class with a "hero > > and > > > > anti-hero" theme. Most of my students are not great readers, so it > > can't > > > be > > > > a philosophical tome (although who knows? I may be surprised.) Does > > > anyone > > > > have any good ideas for a book about or on "anti-hero" > > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > > Mary Kasimor > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! > > > > Search. > > > > > > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 19:57:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Alexander Subject: Re: anti-heroes In-Reply-To: <692866.51778.qm@web51810.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Mary, That's one advantage of Notes from Underground, i.e. it's not long, though it's also not exactly "easy" reading. Detective fiction offers anti-heroes, too, like Sam Spade. charles alexander chax press chax@theriver.com 650 e. ninth st. tucson arizona 8505 520 620 1626 On Dec 9, 2007, at 4:09 PM, Mary Kasimor wrote: > Charles, > Nor am I. I think that anti-hero can be defined in different > ways. Clint Eastwood's movies are a good example. Roberto Bolano's > Savage Detectives is a wonderful example, but it is very very long. > (Very few of my students are readers. (sigh). > Mary > > Charles Alexander wrote: > Notes from Underground, Dostoevsky, for a terrific example of anti- > hero. Influential, I think, on practically everything of anti-hero > since. And for a more "pop" approach, the Clint Eastwood Italian > westerns, i.e. A Fistful of Dollars, For a Few Dollars More, & The > Good, The Bad, & The Ugly. I am not up on critical works on the > notion of the "anti-hero." > > charles > > > charles alexander > chax press > chax@theriver.com > 650 e. ninth st. > tucson arizona 8505 > 520 620 1626 > > > > > On Dec 9, 2007, at 7:52 AM, Mary Kasimor wrote: > >> I am thinking of teaching a freshman compostion class with a "hero >> and anti-hero" theme. Most of my students are not great readers, so >> it can't be a philosophical tome (although who knows? I may be >> surprised.) Does anyone have any good ideas for a book about or on >> "anti-hero" >> >> Thanks. >> >> Mary Kasimor >> >> >> --------------------------------- >> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! >> Search. >> > > > > --------------------------------- > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 23:37:55 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "J. Michael Mollohan" Subject: Re: anti-heroes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My current favorite anti-hero is Dexter, from the Showtime series and the Story/book "Darkly Dreaming Dexter." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 00:58:54 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Cross Subject: Re: 20th century long poems / Ratcliffe In-Reply-To: <889d1e32d72f1574993090432983b7f2@sfu.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Stephen Ratcliffe's long poem, beginning with Portraits and Repetition (427 pp. / Post Apollo) and followed by Real (427 pp. / Avenue B) and the unpublished third section Cloud/Ridge (427 pp.) clocks in at a whopping 1281 pages! AND, get this: he just finished the next section, Human/Nature, all 1000 pages of it. Combined, he's sitting on 2281 pages of magic, which certainly puts him in the running, at least for the longest poem of the 21st century... Michael Quoting George Bowering : > Zuk's A is 826 pages. > > Why this shunning of it? > > > gb > > > > On Dec 9, 2007, at 4:12 AM, Pierre Joris wrote: > > > Ted Enslin's FORMS is 602 pages > > his SYNTHESIS is 490 pages > > vol I of his RANGER is 430 pages (vol. 2 went awol from my shelves) > > > but I remember it as being a bit shorter then vol. 1, so it might > well > > bring the total RANGER to some 800 pages. > > > > Vernon Frazer's IMPROVISATIONS is 697 pages > > > > Charles Olson's MAXIMUS is 635 pages > > > > Robert Kelly's LOOM is 415 pages > > > > Allen Fisher's PLACE is 407 pages > > The first two volumes of his GRAVITY AS A CONSEQUENCE OF SHAPE come > to > > 545 pages, with one further volume to come out, so that poem could > top > > 800 pages. > > > > Alice Notley's ALMA is 344 pages > > > > Anne Waldman's IOVIS (vol. 1& 2) is 647 pages > > > > Frank Samperi's trilogy (THE PREFIGURATION, QUADRIFARIAM & LUMEN > > GLORIAE) should br considered a long poem. The pages are unumbered, > > > but the three vols shld come to between 500 and 600 pages. > > > > The 3 volumes of Ed Sander's AMERICA, A HISTORY IN VERSE come to > 1014 > > pages. > > > > & I forget some. > > > > It's not all in a day's work, > > > > Pierre > > > > On Dec 8, 2007, at 6:52 PM, steve russell wrote: > > > >> I forgot to mention "The Triumph of Love" by Geoffrey Hill. This > poem > >> may not be as lengthy as those I've mentioned on my previous post, > > >> but it's worth looking at. Besides, it's an example of a > non-American > >> 20th century long poem written in English. > >> > >> > >> --------------------------------- > >> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with > Yahoo! > >> Search. > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > > > > The poet: always in partibus infidelium -- Paul Celan > > ___________________________________________________________ > > Pierre Joris > > 244 Elm Street > > Albany NY 12202 > > h: 518 426 0433 > > c: 518 225 7123 > > o: 518 442 40 71 > > Euro cell: (011 33) 6 75 43 57 10 > > email: joris@albany.edu > > http://pierrejoris.com > > Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com > > ____________________________________________________________ > > > > > Geo. H. Bowering > Adaptable yet reliable. > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 07:36:15 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: anti-heroes In-Reply-To: <692866.51778.qm@web51810.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline The hero of the hero and anti-hero dichotomy is Nietzsche, if read with some attention he is simple, it depends again on the students' will to approach him. Great choice the one of Mr. Ripley! I just watched the movie which is quite exceptional, by Minghella, script co-written with Highsmith. Otherwise: Cormac McCarthy: Suttree and The Road. On Dec 10, 2007 12:09 AM, Mary Kasimor wrote: > Charles, > Nor am I. I think that anti-hero can be defined in different ways. Clint > Eastwood's movies are a good example. Roberto Bolano's Savage Detectives is > a wonderful example, but it is very very long. (Very few of my students are > readers. (sigh). > Mary > > Charles Alexander wrote: > Notes from Underground, Dostoevsky, for a terrific example of anti- > hero. Influential, I think, on practically everything of anti-hero > since. And for a more "pop" approach, the Clint Eastwood Italian > westerns, i.e. A Fistful of Dollars, For a Few Dollars More, & The > Good, The Bad, & The Ugly. I am not up on critical works on the > notion of the "anti-hero." > > charles > > > charles alexander > chax press > chax@theriver.com > 650 e. ninth st. > tucson arizona 8505 > 520 620 1626 > > > > > On Dec 9, 2007, at 7:52 AM, Mary Kasimor wrote: > > > I am thinking of teaching a freshman compostion class with a "hero > > and anti-hero" theme. Most of my students are not great readers, so > > it can't be a philosophical tome (although who knows? I may be > > surprised.) Does anyone have any good ideas for a book about or on > > "anti-hero" > > > > Thanks. > > > > Mary Kasimor > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! > > Search. > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 08:14:29 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: 20th century long poems In-Reply-To: <889d1e32d72f1574993090432983b7f2@sfu.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Here comes a long one...: Allen Bramhall's Days Poem, Vol. 1 and 2 respectively: 508 and 440 pages; ! On Dec 9, 2007 9:33 PM, George Bowering wrote: > Zuk's A is 826 pages. > > Why this shunning of it? > > > gb > > > > On Dec 9, 2007, at 4:12 AM, Pierre Joris wrote: > > > Ted Enslin's FORMS is 602 pages > > his SYNTHESIS is 490 pages > > vol I of his RANGER is 430 pages (vol. 2 went awol from my shelves) > > but I remember it as being a bit shorter then vol. 1, so it might well > > bring the total RANGER to some 800 pages. > > > > Vernon Frazer's IMPROVISATIONS is 697 pages > > > > Charles Olson's MAXIMUS is 635 pages > > > > Robert Kelly's LOOM is 415 pages > > > > Allen Fisher's PLACE is 407 pages > > The first two volumes of his GRAVITY AS A CONSEQUENCE OF SHAPE come to > > 545 pages, with one further volume to come out, so that poem could top > > 800 pages. > > > > Alice Notley's ALMA is 344 pages > > > > Anne Waldman's IOVIS (vol. 1& 2) is 647 pages > > > > Frank Samperi's trilogy (THE PREFIGURATION, QUADRIFARIAM & LUMEN > > GLORIAE) should br considered a long poem. The pages are unumbered, > > but the three vols shld come to between 500 and 600 pages. > > > > The 3 volumes of Ed Sander's AMERICA, A HISTORY IN VERSE come to 1014 > > pages. > > > > & I forget some. > > > > It's not all in a day's work, > > > > Pierre > > > > On Dec 8, 2007, at 6:52 PM, steve russell wrote: > > > >> I forgot to mention "The Triumph of Love" by Geoffrey Hill. This poem > >> may not be as lengthy as those I've mentioned on my previous post, > >> but it's worth looking at. Besides, it's an example of a non-American > >> 20th century long poem written in English. > >> > >> > >> --------------------------------- > >> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! > >> Search. > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > > > > The poet: always in partibus infidelium -- Paul Celan > > ___________________________________________________________ > > Pierre Joris > > 244 Elm Street > > Albany NY 12202 > > h: 518 426 0433 > > c: 518 225 7123 > > o: 518 442 40 71 > > Euro cell: (011 33) 6 75 43 57 10 > > email: joris@albany.edu > > http://pierrejoris.com > > Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com > > ____________________________________________________________ > > > > > Geo. H. Bowering > Adaptable yet reliable. > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 08:17:15 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: 20th century long poems In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70712092314j5d5e48e2w7ceb05af71206ed@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sorry, this poem belongs to the 21st century. I did not read the initial question by Ric Carfagna. On Dec 10, 2007 8:14 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Here comes a long one...: > Allen Bramhall's Days Poem, Vol. 1 and 2 respectively: 508 and 440 pages; > ! > > On Dec 9, 2007 9:33 PM, George Bowering wrote: > > > Zuk's A is 826 pages. > > > > Why this shunning of it? > > > > > > gb > > > > > > > > On Dec 9, 2007, at 4:12 AM, Pierre Joris wrote: > > > > > Ted Enslin's FORMS is 602 pages > > > his SYNTHESIS is 490 pages > > > vol I of his RANGER is 430 pages (vol. 2 went awol from my shelves) > > > but I remember it as being a bit shorter then vol. 1, so it might well > > > > > bring the total RANGER to some 800 pages. > > > > > > Vernon Frazer's IMPROVISATIONS is 697 pages > > > > > > Charles Olson's MAXIMUS is 635 pages > > > > > > Robert Kelly's LOOM is 415 pages > > > > > > Allen Fisher's PLACE is 407 pages > > > The first two volumes of his GRAVITY AS A CONSEQUENCE OF SHAPE come to > > > 545 pages, with one further volume to come out, so that poem could top > > > 800 pages. > > > > > > Alice Notley's ALMA is 344 pages > > > > > > Anne Waldman's IOVIS (vol. 1& 2) is 647 pages > > > > > > Frank Samperi's trilogy (THE PREFIGURATION, QUADRIFARIAM & LUMEN > > > GLORIAE) should br considered a long poem. The pages are unumbered, > > > but the three vols shld come to between 500 and 600 pages. > > > > > > The 3 volumes of Ed Sander's AMERICA, A HISTORY IN VERSE come to 1014 > > > pages. > > > > > > & I forget some. > > > > > > It's not all in a day's work, > > > > > > Pierre > > > > > > On Dec 8, 2007, at 6:52 PM, steve russell wrote: > > > > > >> I forgot to mention "The Triumph of Love" by Geoffrey Hill. This poem > > > > >> may not be as lengthy as those I've mentioned on my previous post, > > >> but it's worth looking at. Besides, it's an example of a non-American > > >> 20th century long poem written in English. > > >> > > >> > > >> --------------------------------- > > >> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! > > >> Search. > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > > > > > > The poet: always in partibus infidelium -- Paul Celan > > > ___________________________________________________________ > > > Pierre Joris > > > 244 Elm Street > > > Albany NY 12202 > > > h: 518 426 0433 > > > c: 518 225 7123 > > > o: 518 442 40 71 > > > Euro cell: (011 33) 6 75 43 57 10 > > > email: joris@albany.edu > > > http://pierrejoris.com > > > Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > Geo. H. Bowering > > Adaptable yet reliable. > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 04:32:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tracey Gagne Subject: Re: Role of the Poet in Society In-Reply-To: <733171.50388.qm@web56904.mail.re3.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Indeed, this is an interesting thread. I wonder if being a poet is a calling similar to that of a shaman or a priest. There is certainly a "compulsion" that I feel to write--and have felt since I was quite young. It seems to me that other artists that I've spoken to have had similar feelings about their work. Does the notion "art for art's sake" need to be "passe"? On 12/8/07, Paul Nelson wrote: > > I am very interested in the thread you start here and offer y > John, > > > I am very interested in the thread you start here and offer you this as a > reply: > > > > Introduction to Organic Poetry > > > > > > > > > When I first read Michael > McClure's book Three Poems in 1995 > and saw in the author's preface the words "if poetry and science cannot > change > one's life they are meaningless," something resonated so deeply it was to > change my life for the better, forever (xv). It added a great deal of > momentum > to my own process of individuation and serves as the main part of the > substrate > of the materials gathered here. What resonated deeply was that poetry > ought to > have a transformative function or what was the point? continued at: > http://www.globalvoicesradio.org/Organic-Poetry-Introductory-Essay-4.8.07= .html > > > > > > > Paul E. Nelson, M.A. > WPA President > > Global Voices Radio > SPLAB! > American Sentences > Organic Poetry > Poetry Postcard Blog > Washington Poets Association > > Ilalqo, WA 253.735.6328 or 888.735.6328 > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: John Cunningham > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Saturday, December 8, 2007 8:15:24 AM > Subject: Role of the Poet in Society > > > I've just been studying some Levertov and came across these words: > "Contemplation - meditation - the words are taken from the religious > vocabulary, and surely this is no accident; for we should remember the > ritual, sacramental roots of art and realize that the act of creating a > work > of art is in its nature a celebration of life...and that the artists > himself > has a function not very different from that of the priest of shaman. > ...It is a testimony of that 'participation mystique', that involvement > of > the individual in a life beyond himself, which is a basic element of > religion in the broadest and deepest sense. The poem communicates > something > more of life to the receiver than he would have without it, and the > poet is > the mediator or priest in this rite of communion, in which, as in > Christian > communion, he himself participates also as a receiver." > Her thoughts tie in to some that I have had over the past while. Is the > poet, or, more broadly, the creative artist, the shaman of contemporary > society? Is the process of creating a poem similar to that of a > vipassana, > i.e. mindfulness, meditation? What is the role of the creative artist > in > society now that 'art-for-arts-sake' is pass=E9? > John Cunningham > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.17/1177 - Release Date: > 07/12/2007 > 1:11 PM > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 04:08:48 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: akshaya kamalnaath Subject: Re: Role of the Poet in Society In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I think poetry is just art for art's sake. That is precisely why poets must always have another profession to support them financially. But yes, maybe there is some spirituality involved because every person who reads a poem (a good one) feels elevated at some level. As far as compulsion is concerned, I dont see how that should be an index of anything as everyone who is passionate about something feels compelled to do something about it. Akshaya Tracey Gagne wrote: Indeed, this is an interesting thread. I wonder if being a poet is a calling similar to that of a shaman or a priest. There is certainly a "compulsion" that I feel to write--and have felt since I was quite young. It seems to me that other artists that I've spoken to have had similar feelings about their work. Does the notion "art for art's sake" need to be "passe"? On 12/8/07, Paul Nelson wrote: > > I am very interested in the thread you start here and offer y > John, > > > I am very interested in the thread you start here and offer you this as a > reply: > > > > Introduction to Organic Poetry > > > > > > > > > When I first read Michael > McClure's book Three Poems in 1995 > and saw in the author's preface the words "if poetry and science cannot > change > one's life they are meaningless," something resonated so deeply it was to > change my life for the better, forever (xv). It added a great deal of > momentum > to my own process of individuation and serves as the main part of the > substrate > of the materials gathered here. What resonated deeply was that poetry > ought to > have a transformative function or what was the point? continued at: > http://www.globalvoicesradio.org/Organic-Poetry-Introductory-Essay-4.8.07.html > > > > > > > Paul E. Nelson, M.A. > WPA President > > Global Voices Radio > SPLAB! > American Sentences > Organic Poetry > Poetry Postcard Blog > Washington Poets Association > > Ilalqo, WA 253.735.6328 or 888.735.6328 > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: John Cunningham > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Saturday, December 8, 2007 8:15:24 AM > Subject: Role of the Poet in Society > > > I've just been studying some Levertov and came across these words: > "Contemplation - meditation - the words are taken from the religious > vocabulary, and surely this is no accident; for we should remember the > ritual, sacramental roots of art and realize that the act of creating a > work > of art is in its nature a celebration of life...and that the artists > himself > has a function not very different from that of the priest of shaman. > ...It is a testimony of that 'participation mystique', that involvement > of > the individual in a life beyond himself, which is a basic element of > religion in the broadest and deepest sense. The poem communicates > something > more of life to the receiver than he would have without it, and the > poet is > the mediator or priest in this rite of communion, in which, as in > Christian > communion, he himself participates also as a receiver." > Her thoughts tie in to some that I have had over the past while. Is the > poet, or, more broadly, the creative artist, the shaman of contemporary > society? Is the process of creating a poem similar to that of a > vipassana, > i.e. mindfulness, meditation? What is the role of the creative artist > in > society now that 'art-for-arts-sake' is passé? > John Cunningham > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.17/1177 - Release Date: > 07/12/2007 > 1:11 PM > > > > > > --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 07:40:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Zamsky, Robert" Subject: Re: The young shooter of Omaha... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I can think of a dozen countries where teenagers have similarly struck = out in violent ways -- all tragic, certainly. The US is peculiarly = violent in many ways...but, sadly, this is not a case of American = exceptionalism. ________________________________ From: UB Poetics discussion group on behalf of steve russell Sent: Sun 12/9/2007 7:36 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: The young shooter of Omaha... Name another country where teens decide to step into immortality through = the act of killing. We're violent. We're pathologically violent. We're = simply weird. I was an angry kid. I'm glad this shit wasn't going on back in my day. Joan Waltemath wrote: Here are a few things that I = could add about the Omaha shootings. Being a native Nebraskan I was = aware that von Maur is the chic-est department store in the Omaha area. = To choose that particular store at the height of the consumer season = seems significant. Also Bush visited town and left shortly before the incident. While that = fact was mentioned on the news, the awareness that many people out there = were pretty horrified that Bush fled to Offett Air Force base in = Bellevue just south of Omaha during the September eleven attack is = something that wouldn't fit in a news brief. =20 Context is not separate from what happened there, yet how do we know = if/when it's accountable either?=20 Joan Waltemath On Saturday, December 08, 2007, at 03:54PM, "Gabrielle Welford" wrote: >yes, i remember someone writing that after columbine--we point fingers = at >the young, when at that time i think clinton had ordered the bombing of >yugoslavia, and as you say, now look at us. it's more than a million = dead >now. i surely wish it wasn't "us." g > >On Fri, 7 Dec 2007, CA Conrad wrote: > >> The young shooter of Omaha is mentioned with such statements by = reporters, >> "We're such a violent nation," true, but then they go on with = comparisons to >> Virginia Tech, or Columbine. >> >> Which makes sense. But shouldn't they also be saying, "Yes, look at = what >> we're doing in Iraq!" >> >> "We're such a violent nation, I mean look at what we're doing in = Iraq! >> Almost a million people dead!" >> >> No one says this. It's taboo. >> >> CAConrad >> http://PhillySound.blogspot.com =20 >> > > =20 --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 08:23:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kevin thurston Subject: Re: Role of the Poet in Society In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline i'm not sure having a compulsion equates one with being a shaman or priest On Dec 10, 2007 4:32 AM, Tracey Gagne wrote: > Indeed, this is an interesting thread. > > I wonder if being a poet is a calling similar to that of a shaman or a > priest. There is certainly a "compulsion" that I feel to write--and have > felt since I was quite young. It seems to me that other artists that I'v= e > spoken to have had similar feelings about their work. > > Does the notion "art for art's sake" need to be "passe"? > > > > On 12/8/07, Paul Nelson wrote: > > > > I am very interested in the thread you start here and offer y > > John, > > > > > > I am very interested in the thread you start here and offer you this as > a > > reply: > > > > > > > > Introduction to Organic Poetry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When I first read Michael > > McClure's book Three Poems in 1995 > > and saw in the author's preface the words "if poetry and science cannot > > change > > one's life they are meaningless," something resonated so deeply it was > to > > change my life for the better, forever (xv). It added a great deal of > > momentum > > to my own process of individuation and serves as the main part of the > > substrate > > of the materials gathered here. What resonated deeply was that poetry > > ought to > > have a transformative function or what was the point? continued at: > > > http://www.globalvoicesradio.org/Organic-Poetry-Introductory-Essay-4.8.07= .html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Paul E. Nelson, M.A. > > WPA President > > > > Global Voices Radio > > SPLAB! > > American Sentences > > Organic Poetry > > Poetry Postcard Blog > > Washington Poets Association > > > > Ilalqo, WA 253.735.6328 or 888.735.6328 > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: John Cunningham > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Sent: Saturday, December 8, 2007 8:15:24 AM > > Subject: Role of the Poet in Society > > > > > > I've just been studying some Levertov and came across these words: > > "Contemplation - meditation - the words are taken from the religious > > vocabulary, and surely this is no accident; for we should remember the > > ritual, sacramental roots of art and realize that the act of creating a > > work > > of art is in its nature a celebration of life...and that the artists > > himself > > has a function not very different from that of the priest of shaman. > > ...It is a testimony of that 'participation mystique', that involvement > > of > > the individual in a life beyond himself, which is a basic element of > > religion in the broadest and deepest sense. The poem communicates > > something > > more of life to the receiver than he would have without it, and the > > poet is > > the mediator or priest in this rite of communion, in which, as in > > Christian > > communion, he himself participates also as a receiver." > > Her thoughts tie in to some that I have had over the past while. Is the > > poet, or, more broadly, the creative artist, the shaman of contemporary > > society? Is the process of creating a poem similar to that of a > > vipassana, > > i.e. mindfulness, meditation? What is the role of the creative artist > > in > > society now that 'art-for-arts-sake' is pass=E9? > > John Cunningham > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.17/1177 - Release Date: > > 07/12/2007 > > 1:11 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > --=20 beat'n animals http://fuckinglies.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 05:55:18 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adam Fieled Subject: PFS Prose-Mensch #2: Andrew Lundwall MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Andrew Lundwall, native of Wisconsin, current resident of Rockford, Illinois, where Cheap Trick have been "wanting you to want me" for thirty years, has three awesome prose poems, from his manuscript Pinocchio, up on PFS Post: http://www.artrecess.blogspot.com There is a short review of a poem from William Allegrezza's latest book, Fragile Replacements, up on Stoning the Devil: http://www.adamfieled.blogspot.com Books! "Opera Bufa" http://www.lulu.com/content/1137210 "Beams" http://www.blazevox.org/ebk-af.pdf --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 09:16:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: anti-heroes In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70712092236w7722a6b3ic11a3061197066d9@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed I don't understand what an "anti-hero" is in the first place. Is a coward an anti-hero? Is it someone who faces off against a hero? Is it an abject hero? What is the role of gender here? Too many males? I would think of an anti-hero as a destructive and abject force that couldn't be pinned down; heroes are almost always pointillist - she or he did this/did that; here are the hero's deeds. We want our anti-heroes at this point; we seem to think they're somehow beneath and within the social, correct the social; their badness constructs the good; they give the lie to etiquette; they're literary safety-valves for the social. But they're reified as much as any other commodity, as much as the commodity of the heroic; one might say in fact that anti-heroes are the heroic of the anti-social, not the anti- heroic of the social. In any case the category is too comfortable, as is hero. And don't forget we wiped Grendel to extinction like Stellar's sea- cow. - Alan ======================================================================= Work on YouTube, blog at http://nikuko.blogspot.com . Tel 718-813-3285. Webpage directory http://www.alansondheim.org . Email: sondheim@panix.com. http://clc.as.wvu.edu:8080/clc/Members/sondheim for theory; also check WVU Zwiki, Google for recent. Write for info on books, cds, performance, dvds, etc. ============================================================= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 08:55:24 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Herb Levy Subject: Re: The young shooter of Omaha... In-Reply-To: <397809.61367.qm@web52403.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit steve russell wrote: > Name another country where teens decide to step into immortality through the act of killing. We're violent. We're pathologically violent. We're simply weird. > > I was an angry kid. I'm glad this shit wasn't going on back in my day. > > These events say more about the focus of the media in the US than much else. There are tens of millions of teens in the US, many of whom are angry, many of whom watch violent TV shows and movies, play violent video games and/or listen to music about violence, many of whom dress like previous shooters, many of whom get bullied in school or other situations, etc. But still there are only a very small handful of teen shooting events in any one year, If there've been even a thousand such events in the last twenty years, I'd be surprised. These events are brutal, shocking, inexpelicable, tragic, pointless, etc, but teen shooters are an anomaly, statistically insignificant and the behaviors that are most commonly described as "indicators" of these events are so much more common that these behaviors can't have any causal relation or we'd have hundreds of such events every month. That said, I can think of several other countries where "teens decide to step into immortality through the act of killing" (& you could too if you thought about it). > Joan Waltemath wrote: Here are a few things that I could add about the Omaha shootings. Being a native Nebraskan I was aware that von Maur is the chic-est department store in the Omaha area. To choose that particular store at the height of the consumer season seems significant. > > Also Bush visited town and left shortly before the incident. While that fact was mentioned on the news, the awareness that many people out there were pretty horrified that Bush fled to Offett Air Force base in Bellevue just south of Omaha during the September eleven attack is something that wouldn't fit in a news brief. > > Context is not separate from what happened there, yet how do we know if/when it's accountable either? > > > Joan Waltemath > > On Saturday, December 08, 2007, at 03:54PM, "Gabrielle Welford" wrote: > >> yes, i remember someone writing that after columbine--we point fingers at >> the young, when at that time i think clinton had ordered the bombing of >> yugoslavia, and as you say, now look at us. it's more than a million dead >> now. i surely wish it wasn't "us." g >> >> On Fri, 7 Dec 2007, CA Conrad wrote: >> >> >>> The young shooter of Omaha is mentioned with such statements by reporters, >>> "We're such a violent nation," true, but then they go on with comparisons to >>> Virginia Tech, or Columbine. >>> >>> Which makes sense. But shouldn't they also be saying, "Yes, look at what >>> we're doing in Iraq!" >>> >>> "We're such a violent nation, I mean look at what we're doing in Iraq! >>> Almost a million people dead!" >>> >>> No one says this. It's taboo. >>> >>> CAConrad >>> http://PhillySound.blogspot.com >>> >>> >> > > > > --------------------------------- > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 09:21:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Perfect Distillation of Truth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Perfect Distillation of Truth and [6:04] THIS practice. THIS THIS [6:04] A THIS THIS THIS A AVATAR IS AVATAR AVATAR A WE AVATAR START AVATAR PASTE. IN AVATAR START IN PASTE. MORE MORE A TO MORE FEW [6:05] MORE TO Alan MORE [6:05] Alan TO Dojoji: Alan [6:05] OH Alan Dojoji: SNAP! Alan SNAP! SNAP! Dojoji: Alan SNAP! OH Dojoji: SNAP! [6:05] ITS [6:05] Dojoji: ITS Alan THE ITS Dojoji: [6:05] ITS THE You: ITS [6:05] You: THE HO You: [6:05] [6:05] You: HO Alan You: Alan Dojoji: HO AWESOME! Dojoji: [6:05] [6:05] Alan Dojoji: You: Dojoji: [6:05] You: AWESOME! BOSS You: [6:05] Alan You: BOSS Dojoji: You: Alan Dojoji: BOSS OH Dojoji: Alan SNAP! Dojoji: OH [6:05] Dojoji: [6:05] Alan OH Dojoji: Alan SNAP! I'm Alan Alan You: YOU [6:05] THE YOU You: [6:06] YOU THE You: YOU [6:06] You: THE My You: MAN avatars! You: You: My You: avatars! little My little little avatars! They little little run little They around people! around around They underfoot. run around I around underfoot. I around will I everywhere, play I I a I play song, will song, song, play little song, song, aire, song, little a a a a little or a aire, rondelay! a or rondelay! a [6:06] rondelay! jig Alan rondelay! rondelay! Dojoji: rondelay! Alan AWESOME! [6:06] AWESOME! AWESOME! Alan THE AWESOME! AWESOME! BOMB! AWESOME! THE OH ITS OH OH THE [6:07] OH BOMB! Alan OH SNAP! Alan OH Dojoji: Alan SNAP! ok Alan Alan [6:07] Alan ok Alan Dojoji: Alan Alan ok yes Alan Alan [6:07] Alan yes You: Dojoji: You: You: yes and You: you AVATAR AVATAR for AND AVATAR AVATAR CODE AVATAR AND SOUP PASTE SOUP SOUP AND FIRST SOUP CODE AND SOUP IN AND SOUP AND SECOND IN LIFE. SECOND AND SECOND Alan the in Dojoji, the Alan Dojoji, the dance Dojoji, avatar with Dojoji, Dojoji, / Dojoji, with fight dance fight fight with / fight fight discourse fight / with with with with / fuck with discourse with with / This is and This and tantra. is [6:17] and seance You: and tantra. The tantra. You: The [6:17] as Alan Life. Second ask Life. Alan you Life. yours are - - the - are bomb. you bomb. bomb. are Alan bomb. bomb. Dojoji: bomb. Alan think think Alan think think Dojoji: think Alan and [6:20] and and Alan way Dojoji: and the and way the and world the the is the the [6:20] the is Alan world Alan Alan is And Alan Alan it Alan And seems Dojoji: [6:21] which be Alan can Alan Alan be as Alan [6:21] much Alan Dojoji: much Alan a much Dojoji: projection our a our our projection as our our our our as own 'selving' own own as - own our [6:21] own bodies [6:21] own [6:21] Alan bodies Dojoji: [6:21] [6:21] both [6:21] Dojoji: AUM ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 07:55:34 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: German composer Stockhausen is Dead In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I cried when I saw the Stockhausen obituary in the Times. Two or three days later, I was thrilled by Carter's opera What's Next?" at the Miller Theater, written ten years ago when he was 90 or nearly so. What's next, indeed? He's still composing great works as he nears his own centenary. Regards, Tom Savage Halvard Johnson wrote: And the American (US) composer Elliott Carter is still alive and Tuesday (day after tomorrow) is his 99th birthday. Hal "Look at any word long enough and you will see it open up into a series of faults into a terrain of particles each containing its own void." --Robert Smithson Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Dec 7, 2007, at 5:10 PM, St. Thomasino wrote: > German composer Stockhausen is dead > > 12/7/2007, 1:54 p.m. EST > > The Associated Press > > BERLIN (AP) — Karlheinz Stockhausen, whose electronic works made him > one of Germany's most important postwar composers, has died, German > state broadcaster ZDF reported Friday. He was 79. > > Stockhausen, who gained fame with avant-garde compositions in the > 1960s and '70s and later moved to huge music theater and other > projects, died Wednesday, ZDF said, citing the Stockhausen Music > Foundation. It gave no cause of death. > > Stockhausen's electronic compositions are a radical departure from > musical tradition and incorporate influences as varied as > psychology, the visual arts and the acoustics of a particular > concert hall. > > Stockhausen was born in the village of Moedrath near Cologne in > western Germany on Aug. 22, 1928. His father was killed in World > War II and his mother also died, leaving him orphaned as a teenager. > > After completing his studies in musicology, philosophy and German > literature at the University of Cologne, he went on to study under > composer Olivier Messiaen in Paris from 1952 to 1953, where he also > met his French contemporary Pierre Boulez. > > Stockhausen wrote more than 280 works, including more than 140 > pieces of electronic or electro-acoustic music and brought out more > than 100 different albums. He was known for conducting nearly all of > the premiere performances of his works. > > The composer is survived by six children from two marriages. > Services were not immediately announced. > > He provoked controversy in 2001 after describing the Sept. 11 > attacks as "the greatest work of art one can imagine" during a news > conference in the northern German city of Hamburger, where several > of the hijackers had lived. The composer later apologized for his > remarks, but the city still canceled performances of his works. > > > posted by gregory vincent st. thomasino > > http://eratio.blogspot.com/ > > e· --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 08:03:46 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: 20th Century Long Poems In-Reply-To: <1dec21ae0712081126i34a327eftb3991db9a1d9a277@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Olson's Maximus Poems probably counts as one of the longest poems or poem sequences written in the 20th century. Regards, Tom Savage Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: I would think it is The Cantos. Murat On Dec 7, 2007 7:43 PM, ric carfagna wrote: > Hello, > I was wondering if anyone would know what would be > considered the longest poem written in English in the 20th century. > Thanks, > Ric > --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 10:08:14 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Re: The young shooter of Omaha --- Indicators? In-Reply-To: <475D535C.8080809@eskimo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I wonder how many of these events are unreported or don't receive national attention when they occur in inner city "minority" schools. The ones that take center stage involve white middle class "teens" -- but moreover, how many of these "teen" shooters are girls? Herb Levy wrote:twenty years, I'd be surprised. These events are brutal, shocking, inexpelicable, tragic, pointless, etc, but teen shooters are an anomaly, statistically insignificant and the behaviors that are most commonly described as "indicators" of these events are so much more common that these behaviors can't have any causal relation or we'd have hundreds of such events every month. --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 08:06:42 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Re: anti-heroes In-Reply-To: <204112.49778.qm@web51809.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline The Death of Jim Loney by James Welch Welch writes in a style i call "harsh lyricism." The writing is very spare, so that, in effect, nothing is spared. It is so incisive a style it cuts into one, and when reading it for the first time during heat wave i felt i was freezing, and walked about in a coat. Jim Loney is at the vanishing point where the hero and anti-hero dissolve into a tragedy collapsing the ancestral/ancient and present day into--a half-breed Indian's confronting the abyss. Jim Loney is a half-breed in the sense also of being--torn between the heroic and the anti-heroic--and faced with these "choices": what is it his "way out" of finding an impossible/possible balance? The style is very accessible, simple and direct, very achingly beautiful while also being very harsh and uncompromising. I think it is (deceptively) "easier to read' for non-readers than any of the books mentioned, and as far as examining the hero/anti-hero in terms of American myths as actual realities persons confront in daily life, it is as powerful and disturbing, thought provoking a work as any there is. James Welch (1940-2002) i think was/is one of the best American writers of the last thirty years. (Fool's Crow, Killing Custer (non-fiction), Winter in the Blood and several books of poetry). A Blackfeet-Gros Ventre he grew up on reservations along the Montana border with Canada. He was a student of Richard Hugo's (In a statement on his work, he noted that he knew nothing about poetry at the start, and wrote down "Yates" as an author recommended in class) James Welch is a world writer--not "only an Indian writer." In 2000 he was made a Chevalier de les Artes et les Lettres by the French Govt. I read recently that Jim Loney, already a Penguin book, will be reissued next summer as a Penguin classic. On Dec 9, 2007 6:52 AM, Mary Kasimor wrote: > I am thinking of teaching a freshman compostion class with a "hero and anti-hero" theme. Most of my students are not great readers, so it can't be a philosophical tome (although who knows? I may be surprised.) Does anyone have any good ideas for a book about or on "anti-hero" > > Thanks. > > Mary Kasimor > > > --------------------------------- > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 10:10:20 -0600 Reply-To: wchapman@iwu.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wes Chapman Subject: Re: anti-heroes In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Billy Pilgrim in _Slaughterhouse-Five_. The book teaches well, too, at that level. Wes Chapman >>I am thinking of teaching a freshman compostion class with a "hero and >>anti-hero" theme. Most of my students are not great readers, so it can't be >>a philosophical tome (although who knows? I may be surprised.) Does anyone >>have any good ideas for a book about or on "anti-hero" >> >> Thanks. >> >> Mary Kasimor >> >> >>--------------------------------- >>Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! >>Search. >> > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 11:15:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Kelleher Subject: Literary Buffalo E-Newsletter 12.10.07-12.16.07 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=UTF-8 LITERARY BUFFALO 12.10.07-12.16.07 BABEL WE ARE NOW OFFERING A 2-EVENT SPRING SUBSCRIPTION FOR =2440. Tickets for individual Babel events are also on sale. Call 832-5400 or visi= t http://www.justbuffalo.org/babel. March 13 Derek Walcott, St. Lucia, Winner of the 1992 Nobel Prize =2425 April 24 Kiran Desai, India, Winner of the 2006 Man Booker Prize =2425 ___________________________________________________________________________ EVENTS Unless otherwise listed, all events are free and open to the public. 12.12.07 Just Buffalo Open Reading Wednesday, December 12, 7 p.m. Carnegie Arts Center, 240 Goundry St., North Tonawanda 10 open slots for readers & Earth=E2=80=99s Daughters Gray Hair Reading Series Peg Boyers and Kathleen Betsko Yale Poetry Reading Wednesday, December 12, 7:30 p.m. Hallwalls Cinema, 341 Delaware =40 Tupper 12.13.07 Just Buffalo Small Press Poetry Kristi Meal & Matthew Klane Poetry Reading=E2=80=A8Thursday, December 13, 7 p.m. Rust Belt Books, 202 Allen St. 12.16.07 Just Buffalo Open Reading Sunday, December 16, 7 p.m. Rust Belt Books, 202 Allen St. 10 open slots for readers & Spoken Word Sundays David Blackburn and Celia White Sunday, December 16, 8 p.m. Allen Street Hardware, 245 Allen St. Slots for open readers available ___________________________________________________________________________ JUST BUFFALO MEMBERS ONLY WRITER CRITIQUE GROUP Members of Just Buffalo are welcome to attend a free, bi-monthly writer cri= tique group in CEPA's Flux Gallery on the first floor of the historic Marke= t Arcade Building across the street from Shea's. Group meets 1st and 3rd We= dnesday at 7 p.m. Call Just Buffalo for details. ___________________________________________________________________________ WESTERN NEW YORK ROMANCE WRITERS group meets the third Wednesday of every m= onth at St. Joseph Hospital community room at 11a.m. Address: 2605 Harlem R= oad, Cheektowaga, NY 14225. For details go to www.wnyrw.org. ___________________________________________________________________________ JOIN JUST BUFFALO ONLINE=21=21=21 If you would like to join Just Buffalo, or simply make a massive personal d= onation, you can do so online using your credit card. We have recently add= ed the ability to join online by paying with a credit card through PayPal. = Simply click on the membership level at which you would like to join, log = in (or create a PayPal account using your Visa/Amex/Mastercard/Discover), a= nd voil=C3=A1, you will find yourself in literary heaven. For more info, o= r to join now, go to our website: http://www.justbuffalo.org/membership/index.shtml ___________________________________________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE If you would like to unsubscribe from this list, just say so and you will b= e immediately removed. _______________________________ Michael Kelleher Artistic Director Just Buffalo Literary Center Market Arcade 617 Main St., Ste. 202A Buffalo, NY 14203 716.832.5400 716.270.0184 (fax) www.justbuffalo.org mjk=40justbuffalo.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 11:58:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Metta Sama Subject: OuLiPo Women MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hi, does anyone have any references to OuLiPo artists who are non-France non-male translated into English (all or some...) other than Catherine Daly, Lynn Crawford, & Jean Quval? please back or forward: lmelvin1@binghamton.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 12:05:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: [Fwd: Exhibition of Art by Writers: The Writer's Brush] In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20071209182600.05a3bee8@earthlink.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit saw part of the show sat. bec. at a reading there by alan davies & frank sherwood--it's wonderful to guess who painted what--shocks in store. On 12/9/07 6:28 PM, "Mark Weiss" wrote: > For those in the Cambridge MA area, this from Robert Kelly. > >> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE >> >> >> The Writer's Brush >> >> An Exhibition of Art by Writers >> >> 15 December 2007 through 15 January 2007 >> >> Opening Reception 15 December 6-10 (or longer if we can stand it): >> >> Dear Friends and Colleagues, >> We are pleased (neigh unto delighted) to announce our next >> exhibition, a monumental show of visual art by writers, mounted in >> conjunction with the publication of the wonderful new book on the >> subject, entitled The Writer's Brush, by Donald Friedman, with >> supplementary essays by John Updike and William Gass (see the >> wonderful review in this week's New York Times Book Review). >> >> The first leg of the show took place in New York in September and >> October at Anita Shapolsky Gallery, and our show is an expanded (and >> I hope improved) version of that event. It will run from the 15th >> of December through the 15th of January, with an opening reception >> on 15 December, at which Mr. Friedman and some of the writer/artists >> will be present and happy to sign or inscribe books. The show will >> go to Los Angeles from mid-February through mid-April at Denenberg >> Fine Arts (with a reception during the Los Angeles Antiquarian Book >> Fair), and perhaps then on to Houston. It will contain work by more >> than 120 writers, including >> Walter Abish, Rafael Alberti, Roberta Allen, A.R. Ammons, John >> Ashbery, Enid Bagnold, Amiri Baraka, Djuna Barnes, Mary Beach, >> Andrei Bely, Bill Berkson, Ted Berrigan, Elizabeth Bishop, Star >> Black, Jorge Louis Borges, Breyten Breytenbach, Joseph Brodsky, >> Charles Bukowski, Gelett Burgess, David Burliuk, William Burroughs, >> Josef Capek, R.V. Cassill, G.K. Chesterton, Tom Clark, Daniel >> Clowes, Jean Cocteau, Norma Cole, Douglas Coupland, Morris Cox, Jim >> Crace, E.E. Cummings, Annie Dillard, J.P. Donleavy, John Dos Passos, >> Rikki Ducornet, Robert Duncan, Lawrence Durrell, Russell Edson, >> David Eggers, Kenward Elmslie, Mary Fabelli, Jules Feiffer, Lawrence >> Ferlinghetti, Jacopo Fijman, Charles Henri Ford, Federico Garcia >> Lorca, Kahlil Gibran, Charlotte Perkins Gilman, Allen Ginsberg, >> Louise Gluck, Guenter Grass, Alasdair Gray, Nicolai Gumilov, Alan >> Gurganus, Brion Gysin, Donald Harrington, Hermann Hesse, Jack >> Hirschman, Susan Howe, Georges Hugnet, Victor Hugo, Aldous Huxley, >> Tama Janowitz, Charles Johnson, Donald Justice, Anna Kavan, Weldon >> Kees, Robert Kelly, Jack Kerouac, Maxine Hong Kingston, Bill Knott, >> Richard Kostelanetz, Alfred Kubin, D.H. Lawrence, Jonathan Lethem, >> Wyndham Lewis, Pierre Louys, Mina Loy, Lucebert, Clarence Major, >> Gerard Malanga, Andre Malraux, Robert Marshall, Henri Michaux, >> Leonard Michaels, Henri Michaux, Henry Miller, Susan Minot, Bradford >> Morrow, Walter Mosley, Vladimir Nabokov, Hugh Nissensen, Clifford >> Odets, Fernando del Paso, Kenneth Patchen, Mervyn Peake, Claude >> Pellieu, Francisco Picabia, Alexandra Pizarnik, Sylvia Plath, >> Beatrix Potter, Annie Proulx, James Purdy, Alexei Remizov, Kenneth >> Rexroth, Maclaren Ross, Peter Sacks, William Saroyan, Mira Schor, >> Maurice Sendak, Charles Simic, Patti Smith, William Jay Smith, Iris >> Smyles, Ralph Steadman, Mark Strand, Aldo Tembalini, Igor Terentiev, >> Cecilia Thaxter, Ruthven Todd, Frederic Tuten, Josef Vachal, Cecilia >> Vicuna, Tino Villanuevo, Kurt Vonnegut, Janwillwem van de Wetering, >> Derek Walcott, Keith Waldrop, Rosanna Warren, Lewis Warsh, Denton >> Welch, Marjorie Welish, Richard Wilbur, Tennessee Williams, Gahan >> Wilson, Stanislaw Witkiewicz and Unica Zuern (and a few others not >> all yet committed, if you can imagine that). >> >> A catalogue will be made for the exhibition, with an introduction by >> the magnificent novelist Joseph McElroy. >> >> >> Best wishes, >> >> John Wronoski >> >> >> Lame Duck Books >> Pierre Menard Gallery >> 10-12 Arrow Street >> Cambridge, MA 02138 >> >> 617-868-2022 (bookshop) >> 617-868-2033 (gallery) >> 617-407-6271 (mobile) >> >> www.pierremenardgallery.com >> www.lameduckbooks.com >> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 12:08:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: anti-heroes In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I thnk there must be many women sci-fi anti-heroes...? On 12/9/07 8:20 PM, "Eric Weinstein" wrote: > Sorry, I'm behind on sleep. By "former" I meant "latter," and by "sci-fi" I > meant "fantasy." > > - E > > > On Dec 9, 2007 8:19 PM, Eric Weinstein wrote: > >> I'd cast a vote for Gardner's *Grendel*. *Wuthering Heights* and *Villette >> * might not be ideal candidates for a class that aren't "great readers," >> although I did enjoy the former. If there's a sci-fi element at all, Stephen >> Donaldson's *Chronicles of Thomas Covenant* are great. >> >> >> Best, >> >> Eric >> >> >> >> On Dec 9, 2007 3:12 PM, patrick dunagan wrote: >> >>> Grendel by John Gardner >> >> >> >>> >>> 2007/12/9, Eric Weinstein : >>>> >>>> Mary, >>>> >>>> I think Harold Lubin edited an anthology titled "Heroes and >>> Anti-Heroes: A >>>> Reader In-Depth." The book may be out of print, though, since I think >>> it >>>> was >>>> published in 1968 (somewhat before my time). I'll try and think of >>>> something >>>> more contemporary/available. >>>> >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Eric Weinstein >>>> >>>> >>>> On Dec 9, 2007 9:52 AM, Mary Kasimor wrote: >>>> >>>>> I am thinking of teaching a freshman compostion class with a "hero >>> and >>>>> anti-hero" theme. Most of my students are not great readers, so it >>> can't >>>> be >>>>> a philosophical tome (although who knows? I may be surprised.) Does >>>> anyone >>>>> have any good ideas for a book about or on "anti-hero" >>>>> >>>>> Thanks. >>>>> >>>>> Mary Kasimor >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --------------------------------- >>>>> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! >>>>> Search. >>>>> >>>> >>> >> >> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 10:06:35 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Kasimor Subject: Re: anti-heroes In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I am teaching a war literature class. Many of my students have said that people who are in the military and who have been to Iraq, etc. are heroes because they are "defending our country," making our country greater," etc. I am thinking of the anti-hero as the person who goes against society's norms. I was part of the Viewnam generation. Our heroes in many cases were those who would not "fight for our country." I would consider them anti-heroes. I also see the flawed but person trying to do theright thing as an anti-hero. I think there are various definitions for the anti-hero, but the comments that my students have made make me go with the definition of the person who goes against society's norms for ethical reasons. Mary Alan Sondheim wrote: I don't understand what an "anti-hero" is in the first place. Is a coward an anti-hero? Is it someone who faces off against a hero? Is it an abject hero? What is the role of gender here? Too many males? I would think of an anti-hero as a destructive and abject force that couldn't be pinned down; heroes are almost always pointillist - she or he did this/did that; here are the hero's deeds. We want our anti-heroes at this point; we seem to think they're somehow beneath and within the social, correct the social; their badness constructs the good; they give the lie to etiquette; they're literary safety-valves for the social. But they're reified as much as any other commodity, as much as the commodity of the heroic; one might say in fact that anti-heroes are the heroic of the anti-social, not the anti- heroic of the social. In any case the category is too comfortable, as is hero. And don't forget we wiped Grendel to extinction like Stellar's sea- cow. - Alan ======================================================================= Work on YouTube, blog at http://nikuko.blogspot.com . Tel 718-813-3285. Webpage directory http://www.alansondheim.org . Email: sondheim@panix.com. http://clc.as.wvu.edu:8080/clc/Members/sondheim for theory; also check WVU Zwiki, Google for recent. Write for info on books, cds, performance, dvds, etc. ============================================================= --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 08:05:01 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jessica Bozek Subject: Re: anti-heroes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Mary, I just taught Vonnegut's *Slaughterhouse-Five* in a freshman writing seminar. While there isn't exactly a hero in the novel, Billy Pilgrim is a fine anti-hero, which is, of course, in keeping with Vonnegut's anti-war argument. Arguably, there are minor characters, such as Bertram Copeland Rumfoord, a Harvard historian, who--had he written the same book--would have given us more traditional heroes. My students loved this book. The wonderful thing about starting the semester off with *Slaughterhouse-Five* was that it was both easy enough for everyone to feel like an expert on and complex enough to allow more sophisticated students to explore challenging issues such as narratorial indirection. I paired this reading with long excerpts from Frederick Taylor's recent revisionist history, *Dresden*. We discussed the generic similarities and differences between history and fiction, our resultant expectations, and the various rhetorical and structural techniques Taylor and Vonnegut use to portray the firebombing of Dresden. Another interesting point is that Taylor revises David Irving's version of the firebombing, a version that Vonnegut--though he was in Dresden as a prisoner of war--relies on to confer historical accuracy on his account. Best, Jessica Bozek ------------------------------------------------------ I am thinking of teaching a freshman compostion class with a "hero and anti-hero" theme. Most of my students are not great readers, so it can't be a philosophical tome (although who knows? I may be surprised.) Does anyone have any good ideas for a book about or on "anti-hero" Thanks. Mary Kasimor ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 10:08:14 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: Role of the Poet in Society In-Reply-To: <733171.50388.qm@web56904.mail.re3.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Clearly for some the creation of a poem is a form of mindfulness. I find myself doing this all the time as I watch movies, plays, operas, etc. where I write. I use the meditative technique of not-quite choiceless awareness to pick up things from my surroundings. This has always seemed to me to be a form of meditation, although different from the form of vipassana practice I do in the morning which is based on bodily sensations. Thanks for bringing this up. Regards, Tom Savage Paul Nelson wrote: I am very interested in the thread you start here and offer y John, I am very interested in the thread you start here and offer you this as a reply: Introduction to Organic Poetry When I first read Michael McClure’s book Three Poems in 1995 and saw in the author’s preface the words “if poetry and science cannot change one’s life they are meaningless,” something resonated so deeply it was to change my life for the better, forever (xv). It added a great deal of momentum to my own process of individuation and serves as the main part of the substrate of the materials gathered here. What resonated deeply was that poetry ought to have a transformative function or what was the point? continued at: http://www.globalvoicesradio.org/Organic-Poetry-Introductory-Essay-4.8.07.html Paul E. Nelson, M.A. WPA President Global Voices Radio SPLAB! American Sentences Organic Poetry Poetry Postcard Blog Washington Poets Association Ilalqo, WA 253.735.6328 or 888.735.6328 ----- Original Message ---- From: John Cunningham To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Saturday, December 8, 2007 8:15:24 AM Subject: Role of the Poet in Society I've just been studying some Levertov and came across these words: "Contemplation - meditation - the words are taken from the religious vocabulary, and surely this is no accident; for we should remember the ritual, sacramental roots of art and realize that the act of creating a work of art is in its nature a celebration of life...and that the artists himself has a function not very different from that of the priest of shaman. ...It is a testimony of that 'participation mystique', that involvement of the individual in a life beyond himself, which is a basic element of religion in the broadest and deepest sense. The poem communicates something more of life to the receiver than he would have without it, and the poet is the mediator or priest in this rite of communion, in which, as in Christian communion, he himself participates also as a receiver." Her thoughts tie in to some that I have had over the past while. Is the poet, or, more broadly, the creative artist, the shaman of contemporary society? Is the process of creating a poem similar to that of a vipassana, i.e. mindfulness, meditation? What is the role of the creative artist in society now that 'art-for-arts-sake' is passé? John Cunningham No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.17/1177 - Release Date: 07/12/2007 1:11 PM --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 10:27:06 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline 1) I have moved to 5100 Ambrose Avenue Los Angeles, CA 90067 2) .pdf advance proofs/galleys of i.e Press' second book, and Ray Bianchi's second book, IMMEDIATE EMPIRE, are available from me to reviewers; suggestions for places which review which will be able to comment on the relationship between Wiltraud Haas' images and Ray Bianchi's poetry are most welcome. -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly@gmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 10:32:14 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Kasimor Subject: Re: anti-heroes In-Reply-To: <862043.51696.qm@web51809.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Whoops. Vietnam generation. Mary Kasimor wrote: I am teaching a war literature class. Many of my students have said that people who are in the military and who have been to Iraq, etc. are heroes because they are "defending our country," making our country greater," etc. I am thinking of the anti-hero as the person who goes against society's norms. I was part of the Viewnam generation. Our heroes in many cases were those who would not "fight for our country." I would consider them anti-heroes. I also see the flawed but person trying to do theright thing as an anti-hero. I think there are various definitions for the anti-hero, but the comments that my students have made make me go with the definition of the person who goes against society's norms for ethical reasons. Mary Alan Sondheim wrote: I don't understand what an "anti-hero" is in the first place. Is a coward an anti-hero? Is it someone who faces off against a hero? Is it an abject hero? What is the role of gender here? Too many males? I would think of an anti-hero as a destructive and abject force that couldn't be pinned down; heroes are almost always pointillist - she or he did this/did that; here are the hero's deeds. We want our anti-heroes at this point; we seem to think they're somehow beneath and within the social, correct the social; their badness constructs the good; they give the lie to etiquette; they're literary safety-valves for the social. But they're reified as much as any other commodity, as much as the commodity of the heroic; one might say in fact that anti-heroes are the heroic of the anti-social, not the anti- heroic of the social. In any case the category is too comfortable, as is hero. And don't forget we wiped Grendel to extinction like Stellar's sea- cow. - Alan ======================================================================= Work on YouTube, blog at http://nikuko.blogspot.com . Tel 718-813-3285. Webpage directory http://www.alansondheim.org . Email: sondheim@panix.com. http://clc.as.wvu.edu:8080/clc/Members/sondheim for theory; also check WVU Zwiki, Google for recent. Write for info on books, cds, performance, dvds, etc. ============================================================= --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 13:32:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: anti-heroes In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hear Hear! Murat On Dec 10, 2007 9:16 AM, Alan Sondheim wrote: > I don't understand what an "anti-hero" is in the first place. Is a coward > an anti-hero? Is it someone who faces off against a hero? Is it an abject > hero? What is the role of gender here? Too many males? I would think of an > anti-hero as a destructive and abject force that couldn't be pinned down; > heroes are almost always pointillist - she or he did this/did that; here > are the hero's deeds. We want our anti-heroes at this point; we seem to > think they're somehow beneath and within the social, correct the social; > their badness constructs the good; they give the lie to etiquette; they're > literary safety-valves for the social. But they're reified as much as any > other commodity, as much as the commodity of the heroic; one might say in > fact that anti-heroes are the heroic of the anti-social, not the anti- > heroic of the social. In any case the category is too comfortable, as is > hero. And don't forget we wiped Grendel to extinction like Stellar's sea- > cow. - Alan > > > ======================================================================= > Work on YouTube, blog at http://nikuko.blogspot.com . Tel 718-813-3285. > Webpage directory http://www.alansondheim.org . Email: sondheim@panix.com. > http://clc.as.wvu.edu:8080/clc/Members/sondheim for theory; also check WVU > Zwiki, Google for recent. Write for info on books, cds, performance, dvds, > etc. ============================================================= > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 10:44:35 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Little Sparta & 20th Century Long Poems In-Reply-To: <320586.15465.qm@web31105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I would suggest Ian Hamiltion Finlay's extended garden, Little Sparta, if a physical, continuous space of spatial/concrete poems fit - as I think they should - into the category of a 'long poem.' I guess Little Sparta would have to be measured in acres or hexameters (or a fraction thereof), but, Google as I may, the garden's actual physical size does not emerge in my searches. Anybody know? I don't know how anyone would translate those grounds into pages (other than as an art book), but, Finlay clearly figured some brilliant ways to translate his pages (or syntax), into a complex, intellectually challenging and beautiful use of those grounds. Stephen V http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ Thomas savage wrote:Olson's Maximus Poems probably counts as one of the longest poems or poem sequences written in the 20th century. Regards, Tom Savage Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: I would think it is The Cantos. Murat On Dec 7, 2007 7:43 PM, ric carfagna wrote: > Hello, > I was wondering if anyone would know what would be > considered the longest poem written in English in the 20th century. > Thanks, > Ric > --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 14:07:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: anti-heroes In-Reply-To: <862043.51696.qm@web51809.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed I heard Daniel Berrigan a couple of weeks; he spoke in relation to a documentary made about him. If I bought into hero/anti-hero - I'd certainly see him as a hero, heroic; an anti-hero has at least a faint implication of the anti-heroic... - Alan On Mon, 10 Dec 2007, Mary Kasimor wrote: > I am teaching a war literature class. Many of my students have said that > people who are in the military and who have been to Iraq, etc. are > heroes because they are "defending our country," making our country > greater," etc. I am thinking of the anti-hero as the person who goes > against society's norms. I was part of the Viewnam generation. Our > heroes in many cases were those who would not "fight for our country." I > would consider them anti-heroes. I also see the flawed but person trying > to do theright thing as an anti-hero. > > I think there are various definitions for the anti-hero, but the > comments that my students have made make me go with the definition of > the person who goes against society's norms for ethical reasons. > > Mary > > Alan Sondheim wrote: > I don't understand what an "anti-hero" is in the first place. Is a coward > an anti-hero? Is it someone who faces off against a hero? Is it an abject > hero? What is the role of gender here? Too many males? I would think of an > anti-hero as a destructive and abject force that couldn't be pinned down; > heroes are almost always pointillist - she or he did this/did that; here > are the hero's deeds. We want our anti-heroes at this point; we seem to > think they're somehow beneath and within the social, correct the social; > their badness constructs the good; they give the lie to etiquette; they're > literary safety-valves for the social. But they're reified as much as any > other commodity, as much as the commodity of the heroic; one might say in > fact that anti-heroes are the heroic of the anti-social, not the anti- > heroic of the social. In any case the category is too comfortable, as is > hero. And don't forget we wiped Grendel to extinction like Stellar's sea- > cow. - Alan > > > ======================================================================= > Work on YouTube, blog at http://nikuko.blogspot.com . Tel 718-813-3285. > Webpage directory http://www.alansondheim.org . Email: sondheim@panix.com. > http://clc.as.wvu.edu:8080/clc/Members/sondheim for theory; also check WVU > Zwiki, Google for recent. Write for info on books, cds, performance, dvds, > etc. ============================================================= > > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > ======================================================================= Work on YouTube, blog at http://nikuko.blogspot.com . Tel 718-813-3285. Webpage directory http://www.alansondheim.org . Email: sondheim@panix.com. http://clc.as.wvu.edu:8080/clc/Members/sondheim for theory; also check WVU Zwiki, Google for recent. Write for info on books, cds, performance, dvds, etc. ============================================================= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 13:37:49 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: OuLiPo Women In-Reply-To: <20071210115851.ATO63972@mpmail.binghamton.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Audacia Dangereyes On Dec 10, 2007, at 10:58 AM, Metta Sama wrote: > hi, > > does anyone have any references to OuLiPo artists who are > > non-France > non-male > translated into English > > (all or some...) > > other than Catherine Daly, Lynn Crawford, & Jean Quval? > > please back or forward: lmelvin1@binghamton.edu > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 15:24:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eric Weinstein Subject: Re: anti-heroes In-Reply-To: <835266.13469.qm@web37913.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Another vote for *Slaughterhouse-Five*. Vonnegut is one of my favorites. - Eric On Dec 10, 2007 11:05 AM, Jessica Bozek wrote: > Dear Mary, > > I just taught Vonnegut's *Slaughterhouse-Five* in a > freshman writing seminar. While there isn't exactly a > hero in the novel, Billy Pilgrim is a fine anti-hero, > which is, of course, in keeping with Vonnegut's > anti-war argument. Arguably, there are minor > characters, such as Bertram Copeland Rumfoord, a > Harvard historian, who--had he written the same > book--would have given us more traditional heroes. > > My students loved this book. The wonderful thing about > starting the semester off with *Slaughterhouse-Five* > was that it was both easy enough for everyone to feel > like an expert on and complex enough to allow more > sophisticated students to explore challenging issues > such as narratorial indirection. > > I paired this reading with long excerpts from > Frederick Taylor's recent revisionist history, > *Dresden*. We discussed the generic similarities and > differences between history and fiction, our resultant > expectations, and the various rhetorical and > structural techniques Taylor and Vonnegut use to > portray the firebombing of Dresden. Another > interesting point is that Taylor revises David > Irving's version of the firebombing, a version that > Vonnegut--though he was in Dresden as a prisoner of > war--relies on to confer historical accuracy on his > account. > > Best, > Jessica Bozek > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > I am thinking of teaching a freshman compostion class > with a "hero and anti-hero" theme. Most of my students > are not great readers, so it can't be a philosophical > tome (although who knows? I may be surprised.) Does > anyone have any good ideas for a book about or on > "anti-hero" > > Thanks. > > Mary Kasimor > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 12:50:46 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Kasimor Subject: Re: anti-heroes In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit David, That sounds like a great possibility. I have heard of the novel and the writer. I suspect that it will be very readable to "my students who don't read" and will provoke a great deal of thought from them. Thank you. Mary David Chirot wrote: The Death of Jim Loney by James Welch Welch writes in a style i call "harsh lyricism." The writing is very spare, so that, in effect, nothing is spared. It is so incisive a style it cuts into one, and when reading it for the first time during heat wave i felt i was freezing, and walked about in a coat. Jim Loney is at the vanishing point where the hero and anti-hero dissolve into a tragedy collapsing the ancestral/ancient and present day into--a half-breed Indian's confronting the abyss. Jim Loney is a half-breed in the sense also of being--torn between the heroic and the anti-heroic--and faced with these "choices": what is it his "way out" of finding an impossible/possible balance? The style is very accessible, simple and direct, very achingly beautiful while also being very harsh and uncompromising. I think it is (deceptively) "easier to read' for non-readers than any of the books mentioned, and as far as examining the hero/anti-hero in terms of American myths as actual realities persons confront in daily life, it is as powerful and disturbing, thought provoking a work as any there is. James Welch (1940-2002) i think was/is one of the best American writers of the last thirty years. (Fool's Crow, Killing Custer (non-fiction), Winter in the Blood and several books of poetry). A Blackfeet-Gros Ventre he grew up on reservations along the Montana border with Canada. He was a student of Richard Hugo's (In a statement on his work, he noted that he knew nothing about poetry at the start, and wrote down "Yates" as an author recommended in class) James Welch is a world writer--not "only an Indian writer." In 2000 he was made a Chevalier de les Artes et les Lettres by the French Govt. I read recently that Jim Loney, already a Penguin book, will be reissued next summer as a Penguin classic. On Dec 9, 2007 6:52 AM, Mary Kasimor wrote: > I am thinking of teaching a freshman compostion class with a "hero and anti-hero" theme. Most of my students are not great readers, so it can't be a philosophical tome (although who knows? I may be surprised.) Does anyone have any good ideas for a book about or on "anti-hero" > > Thanks. > > Mary Kasimor > > > --------------------------------- > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. > --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 13:53:16 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: 20th century long poems In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70712092317rbbed076n185f4eb37e993de5@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I think the mention of cent mille milliards of poems is worth discussing. For example, since it is a combinatorial length, not an "as written" length, it would be far easier to translate it than to translate the average 800 pages+ work. Does "translatability" change the way one thinks about length? What about the portions of A and Martyrology which are scored, so that "only" the lyrics require translation, unless, I suppose, one were rearranging, or tranposing keys, or using a different scale? It is a unitary variation, which makes it more a single concept. Does this make it more a single long work, rather than cent mille milliards poems. I think, too, that something open-ended, or ongoing, or including "everything" written in a certain period (open to the extent that what is everything, and how can it be gathered) might be longer in some sense than something that is "completed". -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly@gmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 19:22:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lori Emerson Subject: interview w/Emerson on The Alphabet Game MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear all, a light-hearted interview with me on the editing of _The Alphabet Game: A bpNichol Reader_ is now up on blogTO: http://blogto.com/books_lit/2007/12/the_alphabet_game_a_bpnichol_reader/ Hope there's something of interest to you here - Lori ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 00:27:43 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Jones Subject: Re: German composer Stockhausen is Dead In-Reply-To: <620087.63507.qm@web31110.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline "He was the rock star of my youth," said Esa-Pekka Salonen, music director of the Los Angeles Philharmonic. On Dec 10, 2007 4:55 PM, Thomas savage wrote: > I cried when I saw the Stockhausen obituary in the Times. Two or three d= ays later, I was thrilled by Carter's opera What's Next?" at the Miller The= ater, written ten years ago when he was 90 or nearly so. What's next, inde= ed? He's still composing great works as he nears his own centenary. Regar= ds, Tom Savage > > Halvard Johnson wrote: And the American (US) com= poser Elliott Carter is still > > alive and Tuesday (day after tomorrow) is his 99th > birthday. > > Hal > > "Look at any word long enough and you will see > it open up into a series of faults into a terrain of > particles each containing its own void." > --Robert Smithson > > Halvard Johnson > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > halvard@earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > On Dec 7, 2007, at 5:10 PM, St. Thomasino wrote: > > > German composer Stockhausen is dead > > > > 12/7/2007, 1:54 p.m. EST > > > > The Associated Press > > > > BERLIN (AP) =97 Karlheinz Stockhausen, whose electronic works made him > > one of Germany's most important postwar composers, has died, German > > state broadcaster ZDF reported Friday. He was 79. > > > > Stockhausen, who gained fame with avant-garde compositions in the > > 1960s and '70s and later moved to huge music theater and other > > projects, died Wednesday, ZDF said, citing the Stockhausen Music > > Foundation. It gave no cause of death. > > > > Stockhausen's electronic compositions are a radical departure from > > musical tradition and incorporate influences as varied as > > psychology, the visual arts and the acoustics of a particular > > concert hall. > > > > Stockhausen was born in the village of Moedrath near Cologne in > > western Germany on Aug. 22, 1928. His father was killed in World > > War II and his mother also died, leaving him orphaned as a teenager. > > > > After completing his studies in musicology, philosophy and German > > literature at the University of Cologne, he went on to study under > > composer Olivier Messiaen in Paris from 1952 to 1953, where he also > > met his French contemporary Pierre Boulez. > > > > Stockhausen wrote more than 280 works, including more than 140 > > pieces of electronic or electro-acoustic music and brought out more > > than 100 different albums. He was known for conducting nearly all of > > the premiere performances of his works. > > > > The composer is survived by six children from two marriages. > > Services were not immediately announced. > > > > He provoked controversy in 2001 after describing the Sept. 11 > > attacks as "the greatest work of art one can imagine" during a news > > conference in the northern German city of Hamburger, where several > > of the hijackers had lived. The composer later apologized for his > > remarks, but the city still canceled performances of his works. > > > > > > posted by gregory vincent st. thomasino > > > > http://eratio.blogspot.com/ > > > > e=B7 > > > > --------------------------------- > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 23:33:26 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sam Ladkin Subject: Re: OuLiPo Women In-Reply-To: <20071210115851.ATO63972@mpmail.binghamton.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Harryette Mullen uses OuLiPian techniques and doesn't require translation into English. You might like to look at this issue of Drunken Boat which has some of all: http://www.drunkenboat.com/db8/index.html Best, Sam On 12/10/07, Metta Sama wrote: > hi, > > does anyone have any references to OuLiPo artists who are > > non-France > non-male > translated into English > > (all or some...) > > other than Catherine Daly, Lynn Crawford, & Jean Quval? > > please back or forward: lmelvin1@binghamton.edu > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 15:47:17 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: 20th century long poems In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I have not read everyone's entries, but have folks mentioned Beverly Dahlen's on -going, A READING. I alway think of Lyn Hejinian's work as one extended poem/prose project with multiple branches that are given different titles. & I always think of that poem of Jack Spicer's about being on the shrink's couch where his imagination floats down the length of California (including various moments) a wonderful long poem in a quite literal sense. Too lazy now to look up the name of that poem! Stephen V http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ Catherine Daly wrote: I think the mention of cent mille milliards of poems is worth discussing. For example, since it is a combinatorial length, not an "as written" length, it would be far easier to translate it than to translate the average 800 pages+ work. Does "translatability" change the way one thinks about length? What about the portions of A and Martyrology which are scored, so that "only" the lyrics require translation, unless, I suppose, one were rearranging, or tranposing keys, or using a different scale? It is a unitary variation, which makes it more a single concept. Does this make it more a single long work, rather than cent mille milliards poems. I think, too, that something open-ended, or ongoing, or including "everything" written in a certain period (open to the extent that what is everything, and how can it be gathered) might be longer in some sense than something that is "completed". -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly@gmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 22:24:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ric carfagna Subject: Re: 20th century long poems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Although it is not the longest, the unjustly neglected Tahl by Jeremy Ingalls weighs in at 621 pages. Let's start our discussion with that one mIEKAL! I also notice that Steve mentioned Jones' In Parenthesis; he also wrote The Anathemata as well as the unfinished Roman Quarry which if he had lived to complete it would have been longer that both his previously mentioned works. By the way, how long is Peter Ganick's Splintered?? ----- Original Message ----- From: "mIEKAL aND" To: Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 8:12 PM Subject: Re: 20th century long poems > If only we spent this time having real discussions about these titles ... > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 19:29:28 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dillon Westbrook Subject: Re: The young shooter of Omaha --- Indicators? In-Reply-To: <795196.71073.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anecdotally, the newspapers around cities of Oakland and Richmond are very particular about covering every single murder, as well as publishing maps and calendars and retrospective pieces on the year's violence. While some of this reporting is good, as far as journalism goes, the maddening difference is that there is rarely any follow-up of the kind we are almost sure to see in this Nebraska or recent Colorado case, the kind that discovers motives and histories of personal problems- causal explanations. Urban, minority on minority violence, gets treated as either a given or as a completely impenetrable phenomenon, despite the piles of analysis available from academe. I take Herb's point that the psychological explananda after a V-Tech or Columbine incident are often unhelpful, it seems telling that in the one case some effort is made, however faulty, and in the other no effort is made at all. it pisses me off to no end. On Dec 10, 2007, at 10:08 AM, amy king wrote: > I wonder how many of these events are unreported or don't receive > national attention when they occur in inner city "minority" > schools. The ones that take center stage involve white middle > class "teens" -- but moreover, how many of these "teen" shooters > are girls? > > Herb Levy wrote:twenty years, I'd be surprised. > These events are brutal, shocking, > inexpelicable, tragic, pointless, etc, but teen shooters are an > anomaly, > statistically insignificant and the behaviors that are most commonly > described as "indicators" of these events are so much more common > that these behaviors can't have any causal relation or we'd have > hundreds of such events every month. > > > > --------------------------------- > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! > Search. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 19:34:32 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Quartermain Subject: Re: Little Sparta & 20th Century Long Poems In-Reply-To: <231208.40735.qm@web82604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable I once spent an extraordinarily calming, thoughtful, stimulating and exciting as well as puzzling all-too-short day at Little Sparta, every = step a new syllable or even occasionally word or line, lots of disruptions, = no single "continuity" of, um, "space". I would have stayed there a week = if I'd had the time (and the invitation). How big is that lovely garden? Is "lovely" the word? There are the out-buildings and workshops, which I = was lucky enough to visit, work in progress, and a small lorry delivering a = new piece to add to the garden, all that is p[art of tgher work there. And = the boudaries are very porous indeed, since, at is it the eastern edge? the = side where the large pond-almost-a-lake with a half-swamped boat is, the = garden of cultivated and trimmed plants encroaches on the field, and the more-or-less wild plants and shrubs of the field / hedge / pasture = encroach into the garden, and the eye takes in the surrounding slopes and hills = and lanes and cottages and and and as part of the whole, takes in the garden = as part of the whole. And the sheer delight of taking let's call it = Afternoon Tea just outside the house at, um, intermission time, with intermittent conversation -- yes. A long poem, and complex, engaging the active and walking reader as participant in and of this ever-changing and to my eye utterly brilliant stunning text. The work of art, yes. And work there is (obviously) verb. And so I stop, on the brink of offering a sermon. Ouch! Bravo, Stephen, = for suggesting this, reminding us of it. P =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Peter Quartermain 846 Keefer Street Vancouver BC Canada V6A 1Y7 604 255 8274 (voice and fax) quarterm@interchange.ubc.ca =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] = On Behalf Of Stephen Vincent Sent: 10 December 2007 10:45 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Little Sparta & 20th Century Long Poems I would suggest Ian Hamiltion Finlay's extended garden, Little Sparta, = if a physical, continuous space of spatial/concrete poems fit - as I think = they should - into the category of a 'long poem.' I guess Little Sparta would have to be measured in acres or hexameters (or a fraction thereof), but, Google as I may, the garden's actual physical size does not emerge in my searches.=20 Anybody know? I don't know how anyone would translate those grounds = into pages (other than as an art book), but, Finlay clearly figured some brilliant ways to translate his pages (or syntax), into a complex, intellectually challenging and beautiful use of those grounds. =20 Stephen V=20 http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ =20 =20 Thomas savage wrote:Olson's Maximus Poems = probably counts as one of the longest poems or poem sequences written in the 20th century. Regards, Tom Savage Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: I would think it is The Cantos. Murat On Dec 7, 2007 7:43 PM, ric carfagna wrote: > Hello, > I was wondering if anyone would know what would be > considered the longest poem written in English in the 20th century. > Thanks, > Ric > =20 --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! = Search. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 22:01:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jen Tynes Subject: Alex Lemon chapbook & new horse less press subscription offer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear Friends, Please stop by and get your copy of Alex Lemon's brand new horse less chapbook, AT LAST UNFOLDING CONGO. http://www.horselesspress.com/chapbooks.html http://www.horselesspress.com/congo.html The most recent postal rate increase means we're adding a $1 shipping charge to our books, but wait! Why don't you avoid the shipping cost by getting yourself a 6-book or 12-book subscription! Titles and purchasing info on the chapbook page. http://www.horselesspress.com/chapbooks.html Don't forget our upcoming collaboration/response anthology: the call for submissions is pasted below. If you've got an idea that doesn't fit into one of the submission categories listed, tell us about it! We are very open-minded. Coming soon: chapbooks from Sampson Starkweather, Sommer Browning, Sarah Bartlett & Chris Tonelli. CALL FOR SUBMISSIONS HORSE LESS PRESS will publish a print anthology in 2008. THE THEME is response. WE ARE INTERESTED in the following 1) writings that respond to, collaborate with, collage from, extend, elaborate, etc. a piece of writing that HAS APPEARED in horse less review, 2) COLLABORATIONS WITH WRITERS who've been published by horse less press or review, 3) BEGINNINGS, FRAGMENTS, PROPOSALS, HALF-MADE WORKS which desire some attention. We may also be interested in collaborative or response-based writings that do not fall into these categories. Please query early if you have an idea. SUBMISSIONS GO to horselessresponse at gmail dot com. Our deadline is January 31, 2008. Send work IN THE BODY of email or as a single word, rtf, or pdf file. IN A COVER letter please tell us a little about yourself and a little about the work you are submitting. PLEASE CLARIFY whether your submission falls into category 1, 2, 3. If #1, MAKE SURE you identify the source work. IF YOU NEED MORE information, visit our website or send questions to the above email address. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 14:24:07 +0900 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Glass Subject: Well, if it's sheer length.... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Why not the widest 20th century poem in English? Or the highest? Any takers? In any language? Or how about the greatest 20th century poem in an artificial language? (Esperanto anyone?) (Didn't want to mention the deepest, but....) Jess (close to giggling, but lingering over the gig....) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 08:48:10 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Afterimagenary MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Afterimagenary Kumchok Jampel Tropa, Yamantaka, Slayer of the Lord of Death "With your single vajra-mouth of inseparable bliss and emptiness, In an instant you devour the stream of becoming, samsara and nirvana, And all the flux of space and time, you the Executioner of Yama: Homage to Kumchok Jampel Tropa." (Gomchan Oleshe, trans. Keith Dowman, A Treasury of Drawings of Buddhas, Deities, and Lamas of Tibet, The Nyingma Icons) http://www.alansondheim.org/Yamantaka1.jpg http://www.alansondheim.org/Yamantaka2.jpg http://www.alansondheim.org/Yamantaka.mp4 http://www.alansondheim.org/tan1.jpg http://www.alansondheim.org/tan2.jpg http://www.alansondheim.org/tan3.jpg (images from tanka) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 08:49:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William Allegrezza Subject: Series A tonight! Comments: To: Holdthresh In-Reply-To: <7ebc05130712110543h2a6836afh8e4bfe7a577d3035@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Come hear Steve Davenport and Juan Manuel Sanchez tonight at Series A, a literary reading series in Hyde Park, Chicago. The reading will take place at 7:00 p.m at the Hyde Park Art Center (5020 S. Cornell, Chicago). It's easily to access via Lakeshore Drive or the #6 bus or Metra. BYOB. For more information, see http://www.moriapoetry.com/seriesa.html Steve Davenport is the Creative Nonfiction Editor of *Ninth Letter*. His *Uncontainable Noise* (2006) was short-listed for this past year's NBCC finalist category in Poetry. He's won an Illinois Arts Council Finalist Grant in Non-Fiction Prose, and a recent work, "Murder on Gasoline Lake" (*Black Warrior Review* 33.1) is listed as a Notable Essay in *Best American Essays 2007* and will be published as a chapbook early next year by New American Press. His fiction has been published in magazines like *Berkeley Fiction Review*, *580 Split*, *Diagram*, and *Fiction International*. Best, Bill Allegrezza ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 09:16:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bobbie Lurie Subject: anti-heroes In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ------------------------------ Anny, Your mentioning Nietzsche gives me an opportunity to share small portion of book by Robert Kelly and Birgit Kempker titled "Shame" which I highly recommend."...Nietzsche is ashamed of the world but not about his own self....Nietzsche is ashamed of his mother and his father, his mother Mary and his father Jesus, his opa Joachim and his oma Anna, Hannah, the grace of G-d. He is ashamed of God's grace, his father's money, he is ashamed of the Greek language but not of his own mastery of it. He is ashamed of everything but himself and his desires and his will to sing. Flamme bin ich, he says famously, I am a flame and all I can do is burn, and I do give light while I burn, and you will bask in my light and warmth, and when I am finished you'll find that I have burned up the whole world. Your world. Not mine. I am ashamed of my world and turn my back on it." Bobbi Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 07:36:15 +0100 From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: anti-heroes The hero of the hero and anti-hero dichotomy is Nietzsche, if read with some attention he is simple, it depends again on the students' will to approach him. Great choice the one of Mr. Ripley! I just watched the movie which is quite exceptional, by Minghella, script co-written with Highsmith. Otherwise: Cormac McCarthy: Suttree and The Road. On Dec 10, 2007 12:09 AM, Mary Kasimor wrote: > Charles, > Nor am I. I think that anti-hero can be defined in different ways. Clint > Eastwood's movies are a good example. Roberto Bolano's Savage Detectives is > a wonderful example, but it is very very long. (Very few of my students are > readers. (sigh). > Mary > > Charles Alexander wrote: > Notes from Underground, Dostoevsky, for a terrific example of anti- > hero. Influential, I think, on practically everything of anti-hero > since. And for a more "pop" approach, the Clint Eastwood Italian > westerns, i.e. A Fistful of Dollars, For a Few Dollars More, & The > Good, The Bad, & The Ugly. I am not up on critical works on the > notion of the "anti-hero." > > charles > > > charles alexander > chax press > chax@theriver.com > 650 e. ninth st. > tucson arizona 8505 > 520 620 1626 > > > > > On Dec 9, 2007, at 7:52 AM, Mary Kasimor wrote: > > > I am thinking of teaching a freshman compostion class with a "hero > > and anti-hero" theme. Most of my students are not great readers, so > > it can't be a philosophical tome (although who knows? I may be > > surprised.) Does anyone have any good ideas for a book about or on > > "anti-hero" > > > > Thanks. > > > > Mary Kasimor > > > ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 09:18:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William Allegrezza Subject: do you want to read this summer in chicago MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline i'm scheduling the reading series i run for this summer in chicago. if you know that you are coming through on a visit and consider yourself "innovative" or "experimental," let me know. i'd like to book some out of town acts. bill allegrezza series a: http://www.moriapoetry.com/seriesa.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 09:29:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bobbie Lurie Subject: anti-heros In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Alan, I feel the anti-hero has become a stance--all too familiar. That's the thing: the anti-hero "talks" but doesn't "do"--he is the "lifestyle artist"--he is the "radical poet" who actually is a follower. S(he) is an image. "Fame" above accomplishment / ?the anti-hero has been appropriated into the culture at large and rendered neutral. That's how I see it now. Dying of thirst, not the first I'd ask for a glass of water from---- Bobbi On Dec 10, 2007 9:16 AM, Alan Sondheim wrote: > I don't understand what an "anti-hero" is in the first place. Is a coward > an anti-hero? Is it someone who faces off against a hero? Is it an abject > hero? What is the role of gender here? Too many males? I would think of an > anti-hero as a destructive and abject force that couldn't be pinned down; > heroes are almost always pointillist - she or he did this/did that; here > are the hero's deeds. We want our anti-heroes at this point; we seem to > think they're somehow beneath and within the social, correct the social; > their badness constructs the good; they give the lie to etiquette; they're > literary safety-valves for the social. But they're reified as much as any > other commodity, as much as the commodity of the heroic; one might say in > fact that anti-heroes are the heroic of the anti-social, not the anti- > heroic of the social. In any case the category is too comfortable, as is > hero. And don't forget we wiped Grendel to extinction like Stellar's sea- > cow. - Alan > > > ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 10:16:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Melnicove Subject: Re: 20th century long poems In-Reply-To: BEF828AF-32B1-43F4-8642-2DBE920957DC@mac.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Not the longest, but certainly one of the best, and not so well-known: THE CLEAR BLUE LOBSTER-WATER COUNTRY by Leo Connellan _____ From: Pierre Joris [mailto:jorispierre@MAC.COM] To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Sun, 09 Dec 2007 14:29:38 -0500 Subject: Re: 20th century long poems Weirdly forgot to mention the long poem I am in the process of reading the new volume of: Rachel Blau DuPlessis, DRAFTS, stands so far at 625 pages distributed over three volume. On Dec 9, 2007, at 7:12 AM, Pierre Joris wrote: > Ted Enslin's FORMS is 602 pages > his SYNTHESIS is 490 pages > vol I of his RANGER is 430 pages (vol. 2 went awol from my shelves) > but I remember it as being a bit shorter then vol. 1, so it might > well bring the total RANGER to some 800 pages. > > Vernon Frazer's IMPROVISATIONS is 697 pages > > Charles Olson's MAXIMUS is 635 pages > > Robert Kelly's LOOM is 415 pages > > Allen Fisher's PLACE is 407 pages > The first two volumes of his GRAVITY AS A CONSEQUENCE OF SHAPE come > to 545 pages, with one further volume to come out, so that poem > could top 800 pages. > > Alice Notley's ALMA is 344 pages > > Anne Waldman's IOVIS (vol. 1& 2) is 647 pages > > Frank Samperi's trilogy (THE PREFIGURATION, QUADRIFARIAM & LUMEN > GLORIAE) should br considered a long poem. The pages are unumbered, > but the three vols shld come to between 500 and 600 pages. > > The 3 volumes of Ed Sander's AMERICA, A HISTORY IN VERSE come to > 1014 pages. > > & I forget some. > > It's not all in a day's work, > > Pierre > > On Dec 8, 2007, at 6:52 PM, steve russell wrote: > >> I forgot to mention "The Triumph of Love" by Geoffrey Hill. This >> poem may not be as lengthy as those I've mentioned on my previous >> post, but it's worth looking at. Besides, it's an example of a non- >> American 20th century long poem written in English. >> >> >> --------------------------------- >> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! >> Search. > > ___________________________________________________________ > > The poet: always in partibus infidelium -- Paul Celan > ___________________________________________________________ > Pierre Joris > 244 Elm Street > Albany NY 12202 > h: 518 426 0433 > c: 518 225 7123 > o: 518 442 40 71 > Euro cell: (011 33) 6 75 43 57 10 > email: joris@albany.edu > http://pierrejoris.com > Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com > ____________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ The poet: always in partibus infidelium -- Paul Celan ___________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris 244 Elm Street Albany NY 12202 h: 518 426 0433 c: 518 225 7123 o: 518 442 40 71 Euro cell: (011 33) 6 75 43 57 10 email: joris@albany.edu http://pierrejoris.com Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com ____________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 11:13:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Kelleher Subject: Detroit Reading Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v915) Poetry at the Zeitgeist 2661 Michigan Avenue, Detroit MI, 313-965-9192 Wednedsay, December 12 @ 8pm: Michael Kelleher, Audra Kubat, and Cheri L. R. Taylor. http://zeitgeistdetroit.org/newsite/poetry.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 08:56:00 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: The young shooter of Omaha --- Indicators? In-Reply-To: <324AEF9A-2998-44C9-8A73-06067EC36C13@mac.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks for opening this up, Dillon. The amount of killng among the young - mostly Black, Latino and Asian - of each other is heart breaking, Drugs, turf, vengeance - a relentless cycle. Those among us who have taught in the Juvenile prison systems across the country can no doubt testify to the tragedy of seeing young lives put early to ruin - people who are still in effect children mostly fated to never have an 'outside' life, indeed fated to feed a prison complex that is perniciously given to keep expanding, a business that it is. Another, related and continuous version of 'middle passage.' A sadness multiplied because, say, teaching creative writing in these circumstances can also be joyous. One could say the prison system is to the young what FEMA has been in response to Katrina. For more cheap thrills read Anthony Lewis' article in the current New York Review of Books on the current direction of the Supreme Court. Back to Art!n Stephen Vincent http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ Dillon Westbrook wrote: Anecdotally, the newspapers around cities of Oakland and Richmond are very particular about covering every single murder, as well as publishing maps and calendars and retrospective pieces on the year's violence. While some of this reporting is good, as far as journalism goes, the maddening difference is that there is rarely any follow-up of the kind we are almost sure to see in this Nebraska or recent Colorado case, the kind that discovers motives and histories of personal problems- causal explanations. Urban, minority on minority violence, gets treated as either a given or as a completely impenetrable phenomenon, despite the piles of analysis available from academe. I take Herb's point that the psychological explananda after a V-Tech or Columbine incident are often unhelpful, it seems telling that in the one case some effort is made, however faulty, and in the other no effort is made at all. it pisses me off to no end. On Dec 10, 2007, at 10:08 AM, amy king wrote: > I wonder how many of these events are unreported or don't receive > national attention when they occur in inner city "minority" > schools. The ones that take center stage involve white middle > class "teens" -- but moreover, how many of these "teen" shooters > are girls? > > Herb Levy wrote:twenty years, I'd be surprised. > These events are brutal, shocking, > inexpelicable, tragic, pointless, etc, but teen shooters are an > anomaly, > statistically insignificant and the behaviors that are most commonly > described as "indicators" of these events are so much more common > that these behaviors can't have any causal relation or we'd have > hundreds of such events every month. > > > > --------------------------------- > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! > Search. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 13:33:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Melnicove Subject: Re: "Louis Pasteur is born!" (Creeley on biopics)/no writers In-Reply-To: d6e9fd1e0712061247m6ced831ve63367af30f5c0e5@mail.gmail.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I like to show films about writers to my creative writing students. One = of our favorites over the years has been BARTON FINK. (Coen Brothers) =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F =20 From: David Chirot [mailto:david.chirot@GMAIL.COM] To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 15:47:37 -0500 Subject: Re: "Louis Pasteur is born!" (Creeley on biopics)/no writers There have been a great many movies made "about" writers and their bios, myths, personae, just not very many good ones. =20 (this is excluding for the moment documentaries of which there are many very good ones.) =20 A good film was made of Stevie Smith's life, part of it--with Glenda Jackson giving an excellent performance. The film of Tom and Viv-- Mr T S Eliot and his first wife--i thought fairly good. =20 Reds for example--Warren Beatty's intended "sweeping" epic life of John Reed (Ten Days that Shook the World, he also wrote poetry) had also Jack Nicholson playing Eugene O'Neil . Then there are the Hemingway semi-bios like Islands in the Stream with as i recall George C Scott. Biopics like Last Time I Saw Paris based on Scott and Zelda Fitzgerald, a bad old swashbuckler one on life of Villon, the Rimbaud-Verlaine one with Leo di Caprio, Barfly based on Bukowski, Capote which won lot of awards for performance, a couple bad ones i have seen on the life/lives of the Brontes, others from the blurred pop culture images of the writings and life of Edgar Poe, basically the ghostly after effects of Classics comics versions of him, entertaining in a luridly filmed way,. I remember dimly an old french film on the life of Jules Verne that wa= s fun. =20 Ring Lardner, in Eight Men Out, played by John Sayles, the film's director, and very well, as an amazingly resemblance =20 The really good films about writers tend to be of mythical or dream poets like Cocteau's ORPHEE which had such a huge influence on Jack Spicer, as well as Cocteau's much earlier classic, le Sang d'un poete. (Blood of a Poet) =20 =20 And let's not forget a great film (screenplay differing bit from the book, both by Graham Greene)--THE THIRD MAN--a great film featuring a writer of Westerns (Joseph Cotten as Holly Martins) in search of an old friend--(Orson Welles--also sought after via Cotten in Citizen Kane)-- =20 In Clint Eastwood's Unforgiven--a main character is a writer of the trashy tales of "legendary" outlaws and gunslingers, whom the brutal Gene Hackman takes under his wing --to chronicle a "real life" gunslinger at work-- =20 In Kurosawa's great IKIRU (To Live) there is the --again--writer of pulp fiction, a kindhearted gaunt poete maudit type, who becomes the friend of the dying protagonist. =20 In Godard's Pierrot le fou, Belmondo wants to be a writer, and starts = writing-- =20 there are a great many versions made in several languages of Knut Hamsun's great autobiographical HUNGER--literally about a "starving writer"-- =20 An interesting aspect of (real and fictional) writers in film is that they are included in the action and developments of characters--as a device, a commentator, an investigator, an instigator, a prompter, a spy--the writer becomes a link between the audience and the action on screen--provided extra details, connections between characters and sub-plots-- riffing of the scenes with their own personal imaginings and speculati= ons-- =20 The writer is perceived so to speak by/within many films as an observer within the observing and observed field of visions of characters and audiences both. The writer is the "private eye" exploring for those "inquiring minds who want to know"--in many cases hired by someone in the film--and in a sense, by the audience also, which has paid for admission and now demands a good return on the investment. =20 The greatest example of a writer as many of these aspects in film may be thought of as Shakespeare's RICHARD THE THIRD--since Richard basically speaks his "writing" of the action --ahead of time--to the audience--and then proceeds to act out the scenes--the writer becoming an actor who is simultaneously directing the scene unknown to the other characters who now make their entrances according to his script, right on cue, and "follow his direction to the letter" in the most literal ways. All of which Richard can afterwards share as a good laugh with his reader/audience =20 Since a lot of American writers had been involved with journalism, and had done from time to time pulp writing also--it was an easy move when many of these multi-genred, multi-professional writers worked in Hollywood to insert the character of a writer In many films noir, one finds a character, either a newspaper reporter, a writer-wanna-be or a screen play writer--often as the person who plays the part of the narrator, or a commentator on the action-- =20 Or the writer--because a professional practitioner of fictions, lies--may be the "suspect" as in the Humphrey Bogart film in which he plays a violence-prone screen writer. =20 For example, In Billy Wilder's Sunset Boulevard, the Bill Holden character is a screenplay writer-- =20 In the 1948 version of Robert Penn Warren's All the King's Men with Broderick Crawford, a reporter turned speech writer and PR man is one of the main characters--hauled along to be the observer-- =20 Newspaper reporters were featured in many screwball comedies--two versions each of My Girl Friday and Ball of Fire for example-- All the Presidents Men--investigative reporting-- =20 Naked Lunch features its author Bill Burroughs as his own character-(an actor playing Bill "playing" fictionally/autobiographically himself--)-within both his writings being made--and within the film being made of his writings-- =20 One could go on and on and on-getting lost---into the labyrinths of Borgesian libraries of decaying films in cannisters containing the "lives of writers," "the days and nights of the poets," the tragic and comic melodramas of authors real and imaginary, famous and forgotten . . . =20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 10:52:35 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Luke Schlueter Subject: Re: " poetry . . .as well written as prose" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable All--thanks for your comments. =20 This was my response to one member who corresponded privately. The = member, I should, note, was curious to know the context in which I = quoted Pound in my paper: =20 "The historical context you sketch is one that I was happy to be = refamiliarized with; this is just the sort of thing I was looking for. = Based upon this refreshed sense, I think my use of Pound's dictum in my = paper holds good. I want to argue how Dunn's poetry has certain values = that we tend to associate with prose--I am in particular thinking of = elegance of diction, narrative power, and complexity of thought. These = qualities seem to me to mark Dunn's better poems. Dunn's poetry doesn't = foreground, as much postmodern poetry does, the play of language, but = wants essentially to use language as a means of exploring the meaning of = experience, even if his poems tend to ultimately gesture toward the = elusiveness or ephemerality of final meanings. This isn't to say there = isn't a musicality, a "poetry" to Dunn's use of language--there = certainly is--but is to say that our experience of the typical Dunn poem = seems to be informed by a kind of aesthetic experience we typically seek = to find in prose (I, of course, am well aware of the counter-response; = Dunn exemplifies, in fact, how many of us do indeed look to find just = such values in poetry, hence the whole topic). As a (slight) aside, it = seems to me that one of the oddities of Pound is how he wants his poetry = to have prosaic values--to enact, dramatize, spell through language = cultural value and significance--but in practice writes a kind of poetry = that at least I, for one, have difficulty aligning with prose as I = understand it." =20 So back to the group--I'm left wondering to what degree Pound's = statement has relevance today. The great diversity of poetic practices = that govern the current state of poetry undoubtedly complicates the = issue, as does the diversity of prose styles, for that matter. =20 =20 I'm also left wondering to what degree it's ever advisable, in Pound's = day or our own, to import judgments concerning the nature of prose into = questions concerning the nature of poetry. Certainly both prose and = poetry require taking great care with words. But Pound also seems to be = making a value judgment concerning the state of prose versus that of = poetry. It's certainly something of a truism to say that poetry by the = late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries had become stale, fusty, = tired, clich=E9d, sentimental. But I'm not convinced the general state = of prose was any less so, was it? So why the privileging of prose? = Charles, your comments do point toward an answer. But perhaps we can = dig a bit further in this vein. =20 Best, Luke ________________________________ From: UB Poetics discussion group on behalf of Murat Nemet-Nejat Sent: Sat 12/8/2007 12:19 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: " poetry . . .as well written as prose" If I remember correctly, T. S.Eliot states the same, or something close = to it, in one of his essays. He is attacking the vagueness of thought and language the poetry of the time (the Edwardian stuff) was suffering = from. Murat On Dec 7, 2007 9:36 AM, Barry Schwabsky = wrote: > Pound got his dictum from Ford Madox Hueffer (subsequently Ford). In = his > obit for Ford, he wrote that "for the ten years before I got to = England > there would seem to have been no one but Ford who held that French = clarity > and simplicity in the writing of English verse and prose were of = immense > importance as in contrast to the use of a stilted traditional dialect, = a > 'language of verse' unused in the actual talk of the people, even of = 'the > best people', for the expression of reality and emotion." Thus, = "prose" here > means, essentially, the tradition of Flaubert, and the condition of = poetry > he was responding to was that of late Victorian verse--he specifically > mentions Robert Bridges and "the useful, but monotonous, in their day = unduly > neglected, as more recently unduly touted, metrical labours of G. = Manley > Hopkins." And he also mentions his own early efforts, "when my third = volume > displayed me trapped, fly-papered, gummed and strapped downin a jejune > provincial effort to learn...the stiled language that then passed for > 'good English' in the arthritic milieu that held control of the = respected > British critical circles." > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Luke Schlueter > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Friday, 7 December, 2007 2:03:45 AM > Subject: " poetry . . .as well written as prose" > > Hi, Luke Schlueter here. I'm new to this listserv having happily = stumbled > upon it as I was looking for a forum to discuss poetics. > > I embarked upon this search with a specific purpose in mind. In a = letter > to Harriet Monroe Ezra Pound famously stated that "poetry should be as = well > written as prose." I use the line in an academic paper I'm writing = having > to do with the poetry of Stephen Dunn, but it occurred to me that I am > basing my use of Pound's statement on an assumption about what Pound = meant, > which may be entirely wrong. > > I would be very interested, then, to hear what some of you may have so = say > about the set of historical/cultural/aesthetic assumptions underlying > Pound's statement. What were the specific conditions of poetry and = prose > that he was responding to? What excellence did he imagine prose to > enacting, and what lack of excellence poetry? Who were some prose = writers > he had in mind? Was he thinking of essayists? or novelists? Or both? > > So we'll see if this topic has legs. > > Best, > Luke > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 11:51:59 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joan Waltemath Subject: Re: 20th century long poems In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone know of The Walking People by Paula Underwood? 868 pages, a Native American Oral History translated and written down in the 20th century? It's length could be measured in time as well as pages. Around page 200 something the poem speaks of the beginning of wearing clothes, later on there are stories about building the mounds in the Ohio area. I couldn't say enough about the pleasures of reading this epic, though I could easily say too much. Joan On Monday, December 10, 2007, at 06:13PM, "Catherine Daly" wrote: >I think the mention of cent mille milliards of poems is worth discussing. > >For example, since it is a combinatorial length, not an "as written" length, >it would be far easier to translate it than to translate the average 800 >pages+ work. Does "translatability" change the way one thinks about >length? What about the portions of A and Martyrology which are scored, so >that "only" the lyrics require translation, unless, I suppose, one were >rearranging, or tranposing keys, or using a different scale? > >It is a unitary variation, which makes it more a single concept. Does this >make it more a single long work, rather than cent mille milliards poems. > >I think, too, that something open-ended, or ongoing, or including >"everything" written in a certain period (open to the extent that what is >everything, and how can it be gathered) might be longer in some sense than >something that is "completed". > >-- >All best, >Catherine Daly >c.a.b.daly@gmail.com > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 15:47:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: Test Your Poetry IQ at Joe Brainard's Pyjamas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Yes, I too hate that phrase! Like "test your mortage I.Q." or "test your ferret facts I.Q." Just up is a brief (10 Questions) quiz where you are challenged to "Name That Poet" without musical clues...I will be shocked but gratified if anyone gets all 10....I tried to make at least a few "Google-proof" hehe...I will post high scorers...there's also some yadda about poetry and maybe a reindeer or two....http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 13:00:11 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Corey, Mayhew email addesses? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Josh Corey Johnathan Mayhew Appreciate email addresses back channel, I would. Thanks, Stephen Vincent Stephen Vincent , ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 15:24:03 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: 20th century long poems In-Reply-To: <014801c83ba5$4f4e3ff0$b0f79a04@Cesare> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed RIC I'd love to see this list consider any one of these poems in depth. Long poems in general have been ignored spurned neglected for far too long. As time moves forward it seems the attention span grows shorter, even physically having the time to read 800 pages is an improbability for most people. Also I think the internet & hypertext has had a profound effect on how larger bodies of information are organized & accessed. I've been working for a number of years trying to come up with an online portal for my long poem but to date I haven't come up with an interface that would allow the reader to navigate intuitively thru the work. Maybe when I can add a bit of AI to to the interface that would query a person's tastes and interests (or read from their facebook profile :) & then, knowing a person's interests, would affect what is presented on the screen. About a third of my long poem SAMSARA CONGERIES is online here in a static format http://xexoxial.org/samsara_congeries/?q=book & hopefully I'll have a final typescript of the poem (which I started in 1978) finished in the next month. It, by the way, runs somewhere over 800 pages but I'd like design it in such a way that it could be around 500 pages. Finding a publisher for it will be harder than writing it. What I really wonder, Ric, is why the question in the first place? What does knowing the number of pages of a long poem really tell us about the long poem itself. Perhaps yr plotting a new entry in the Guiness World Book of Records? Now how long is your long poem? ~mIEKAL On Dec 10, 2007, at 9:24 PM, ric carfagna wrote: > Although it is not the longest, the unjustly neglected Tahl by Jeremy > Ingalls weighs in at 621 pages. Let's start our discussion with > that one > mIEKAL! > > I also notice that Steve mentioned Jones' In Parenthesis; he also > wrote The > Anathemata > as well as the unfinished Roman Quarry which if he had lived to > complete it > would have been longer that both his previously mentioned works. > > By the way, how long is Peter Ganick's Splintered?? > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "mIEKAL aND" > To: > Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 8:12 PM > Subject: Re: 20th century long poems > > >> If only we spent this time having real discussions about these >> titles ... >> > 24/7 PROTOMEDIA BREEDING GROUND JOGLARS CROSSMEDIA BROADCAST (collaborative text & media) http://www.joglars.org SPIDERTANGLE International Network of VisPoets http://www.spidertangle.net XEXOXIAL EDITIONS Appropriate Scale Publishing since 1980 http://www.xexoxial.org INTERNALATIONAL DICTIONARY OF NEOLOGISMS research | reference | ongoing collection http://www.neologisms.us Dreamtime Village Hypermedia Permaculture EcoVillage in Southwest Wisconsin http://www.dreamtimevillage.org "The word is the first stereotype." Isidore Isou, 1947. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 14:33:31 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Hugh Behm-Steinberg Subject: Re: 20th century long poems In-Reply-To: <657039.58229.qm@web82607.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I'll lay odds the longest long poem of the 20th century hasn't been found yet, but is lurking in someone's attic: composed by a complete outsider, it would be the poetry counterpart of Henry Darger's "In the Realms of the Unreal." Hugh Behm-Steinberg Stephen Vincent wrote: I have not read everyone's entries, but have folks mentioned Beverly Dahlen's on -going, A READING. I alway think of Lyn Hejinian's work as one extended poem/prose project with multiple branches that are given different titles. & I always think of that poem of Jack Spicer's about being on the shrink's couch where his imagination floats down the length of California (including various moments) a wonderful long poem in a quite literal sense. Too lazy now to look up the name of that poem! Stephen V http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ Catherine Daly wrote: I think the mention of cent mille milliards of poems is worth discussing. For example, since it is a combinatorial length, not an "as written" length, it would be far easier to translate it than to translate the average 800 pages+ work. Does "translatability" change the way one thinks about length? What about the portions of A and Martyrology which are scored, so that "only" the lyrics require translation, unless, I suppose, one were rearranging, or tranposing keys, or using a different scale? It is a unitary variation, which makes it more a single concept. Does this make it more a single long work, rather than cent mille milliards poems. I think, too, that something open-ended, or ongoing, or including "everything" written in a certain period (open to the extent that what is everything, and how can it be gathered) might be longer in some sense than something that is "completed". -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly@gmail.com --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 15:34:52 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Ford Subject: Re: 20th century long poems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline The longest poem I know of is Lee Groban's CURE FOR INSOMNIA. It has not been published, though, and is probably unpublishable. Lee's website says that it is over 5,000 pages long and still unfinished. 20 years ago someone made a movie of him reading the poem (cut together with assorted video footage). The movie is 87 hours long. Michael Ford ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 02:24:06 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barry Schwabsky Subject: Re: 20th century long poems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable More than wanting to see an in-depth discussion of a particular poem, I'd b= e curious to know how people evaluate these poems. What makes a long poem w= ork over its particular long run, what sustains a reader's interest? Also, = it seems to me that there are different types of long poems--broadly, there= are catch-alls, where the poem basically seems to contain everything that = came into the poet's mind during the period of its composition, as with the= Cantos, while others have some sort of more objective unity of topic, as w= ith David Jones. These are two very different types of long poem--are they = at all comparable?=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: mIEKAL aND <= dtv@MWT.NET>=0ATo: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=0ASent: Tuesday, 11 Decembe= r, 2007 9:24:03 PM=0ASubject: Re: 20th century long poems=0A=0ARIC=0A=0AI'd= love to see this list consider any one of these poems in depth. =0ALong p= oems in general have been ignored spurned neglected for far too =0Along. = As time moves forward it seems the attention span grows =0Ashorter, even p= hysically having the time to read 800 pages is an =0Aimprobability for mos= t people. Also I think the internet & hypertext =0Ahas had a profound eff= ect on how larger bodies of information are =0Aorganized & accessed. I've= been working for a number of years trying =0Ato come up with an online po= rtal for my long poem but to date I =0Ahaven't come up with an interface t= hat would allow the reader to =0Anavigate intuitively thru the work. Mayb= e when I can add a bit of AI =0Ato to the interface that would query a per= son's tastes and interests =0A(or read from their facebook profile :) & th= en, knowing a person's =0Ainterests, would affect what is presented on the= screen.=0A=0AAbout a third of my long poem SAMSARA CONGERIES is online her= e in a =0Astatic format=0A=0Ahttp://xexoxial.org/samsara_congeries/?q=3Dbo= ok=0A=0A& hopefully I'll have a final typescript of the poem (which I start= ed =0Ain 1978) finished in the next month. It, by the way, runs somewhere= =0Aover 800 pages but I'd like design it in such a way that it could be = =0Aaround 500 pages. Finding a publisher for it will be harder than =0Awr= iting it.=0A=0AWhat I really wonder, Ric, is why the question in the first= place? =0AWhat does knowing the number of pages of a long poem really tel= l us =0Aabout the long poem itself. Perhaps yr plotting a new entry in th= e =0AGuiness World Book of Records?=0A=0ANow how long is your long poem?= =0A=0A~mIEKAL=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Dec 10, 2007, at 9:24 PM, ric carfagna wrote:= =0A=0A> Although it is not the longest, the unjustly neglected Tahl by Jere= my=0A> Ingalls weighs in at 621 pages. Let's start our discussion with =0A= > that one=0A> mIEKAL!=0A>=0A> I also notice that Steve mentioned Jones' In= Parenthesis; he also =0A> wrote The=0A> Anathemata=0A> as well as the unf= inished Roman Quarry which if he had lived to =0A> complete it=0A> would h= ave been longer that both his previously mentioned works.=0A>=0A> By the wa= y, how long is Peter Ganick's Splintered??=0A>=0A> ----- Original Message -= ---- From: "mIEKAL aND" =0A> To: =0A> Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 8:12 PM=0A> Subject: Re: 20th century= long poems=0A>=0A>=0A>> If only we spent this time having real discussions= about these =0A>> titles ...=0A>>=0A>=0A=0A24/7 PROTOMEDIA BREEDING GROUN= D=0A=0AJOGLARS CROSSMEDIA BROADCAST=0A(collaborative text & media)=0Ahttp:/= /www.joglars.org=0A=0ASPIDERTANGLE=0AInternational Network of VisPoets=0Aht= tp://www.spidertangle.net=0A=0AXEXOXIAL EDITIONS=0AAppropriate Scale Publis= hing since 1980=0Ahttp://www.xexoxial.org=0A=0AINTERNALATIONAL DICTIONARY O= F NEOLOGISMS=0Aresearch | reference | ongoing collection=0Ahttp://www.neolo= gisms.us=0A=0ADreamtime Village=0AHypermedia Permaculture EcoVillage in Sou= thwest Wisconsin=0Ahttp://www.dreamtimevillage.org=0A=0A"The word is the fi= rst stereotype." Isidore Isou, 1947. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:04:13 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: michelle detorie Subject: Resurrection Party MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline RESURRECTION PARTY poems by Michalle Gould chapbook now available from Hex Presse http://www.daphnomancy.etsy.com http://www.hexpresse.blogspot.com ***************************************** The first chapbook from Hex Presse! *Double-bound in 1.) cold-pressed watercolor paper hand stamped on both sides with archival ink and 2.) vellum *outer cover has cutouts to reveal inner cover image and press mark. *numbered edition of 100 *author's edition (#s 1-60) is all black and white *editor's edition (shown here, #s 61-100) has colored vellum and is stamped with colored ink inside. *Printed on 100% recycled paper *Due to the nature of the handmade binding, each chapbook is entirely uniqu= e. *additional pictures of the chapbook are available here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mdetorie/sets/72157594484265058/ **************************************** here's the first poem in the collection: HOW NOT TO REQUIRE RESURRECTION Children like to play at death =96 they hold their breath, and cross their arms and shut their eyes until they forget to be dead; then rise from their nest of pillows and play instead at being lost or married, as if their state was mutable, as if, like water they could flow or freeze or climb without a ladder into the heavens then drop back down =96 they are the first resurrectionists, they alone understand the trick is not to try, that once you believe in death, you will surely die. ***************************************************** ABOUT THE AUTHOR Michalle Gould currently lives in Austin, Texas, where she teaches and tutors writing part-time at St. Edwards University. Her poems have appeared in _Poetry_, _Foursquare_, Pleides_, _32 poems_, _Womb_, _Little Red Leaves_, and elsewhere. She also writes short stories, novels, and screenplays. ***************************************************** ~Please query for review copies~ Apologies for x-posting! --=20 http://www.wombpoetry.com/ http://www.daphnomancy.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 23:35:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis Warsh Subject: The Influence of Paintings Hung in Bedrooms Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit New from United Artists Books THE INFLUENCE OF PAINTINGS HUNG IN BEDROOMS by Phyllis Wat 75 pages ISBN 0-935992-36-7 $14.00 A new book of poems by the author of The Fish Soup Bowl Expedition (2000) and the editor and publisher of Strawgate Books. Wat is a founding coeditor of 6x Magazine and the recipient of two grants from the Pennsylvania Council on the Arts. She was contributing editor to The World, the literary magazine of The Poetry Project in New York, from 1992-93, and is presently coeditor of a new on-line magazine Press 1. She lives in Philadelphia and New York. "Like any communicating vessel, Phyllis Wat condenses all she learns into poems. Like a zen master more interested in play than lessons, Wat's poems are bending reeds: in seeking knowledge, she's unlearning at the same time and finding forms for what resonates. Witty and filled with delightful aphorisms and maxims, like the best satire, it's each poem's crazy wisdom that ultimately comes through. Use this book as guide for getting lost--right into the poem." Kristin Prevallet "Precise and prescient, Phyllis Wat etches the exigencies of everyday in luminous and deep-seeing language. She enfolds the mysterious within simplicity, and the structures of her poems are such that once you finish, so you begin again. 'Strange lands are for understanding," and Wat comprehends, compels, gestures for us to join her in her travels both inside and outside. This is a treasure of a journey of a book." Marcella Durand ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 00:53:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Rod Smith Meets The Nation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 [apologies if this was already posted here and I missed it] The Nation Magazine has a review of Rod Smith's DEED written by Joshua Clover. It's in the Dec. 24, issue, though it has been on their web site since the sixth! That's progressives for you. Here's the link: <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We are enslaved by what makes us free -- intolerable paradox at the heart of speech. --Robert Kelly Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 08:53:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William Allegrezza Subject: New Book from Moria Books: Amy Trussell! Comments: To: Holdthresh MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Amy Trussell's new ebook/book Meteorite Dealers is available free for download or for purchase in print through Moria Books: http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html. Praise for the book: Reading Amy Trussell's poetry is great for the soul. Her work is steeped in rich imagery, with colorful, soulful elements. Her poems have movement. . .they're magical, and one can almost see them dancing off the page! =97Marjorie Mann, actor and screenwriter Reading The Meteorite Dealers, I am reminded of the sorcerer-bards in the Kalevala, singing objects, plants, everyday items into a dynamic existence. Amy sings a mean (but compassionate!) deep-sea ink that somehow gives us a glimpse of deep-space. . .perhaps the first hurtlings and hissings of what would later become that pagan, celestial stone now statically housed in Mecca. Though Amy certainly respects our intelligence, she rips us straight to the heart, to where we may remember what we might not have fully experienced. Amy Trussell is truly the meteorite dealer, midwife, muezzin and juggler of octagons and essences. In this work, as in all her other works, language multiplies and issues forth another dynamic meaning for: singularity. Finally, the Ka'aba meteorite performs zikr. . . . =97A di Michele, author, artist, educator ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:07:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stuart Ross Subject: Re: Rod Smith Meets The Nation In-Reply-To: <1197438817l.1224756l.0l@psu.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Wow, a review of Rod Smith in the Nation. Good to see such a gleam of hope and smartness. Excellent review. Stuart On 12/12/07 12:53 AM, "ALDON L NIELSEN" wrote: > [apologies if this was already posted here and I missed it] > > The Nation Magazine has a review of Rod Smith's DEED written by Joshua Clover. > It's in the Dec. 24, issue, though it has been on their web site since the > sixth! That's progressives for you. > > Here's the link: > > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > We are enslaved by > what makes us free -- intolerable > paradox at the heart of speech. > --Robert Kelly > > Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > > Aldon L. Nielsen > Kelly Professor of American Literature > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 08:18:02 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Kasimor Subject: Re: Rod Smith Meets The Nation In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Yes, The Nation is one of the best journals around and to get anything reviewed in that is wonderful! Mary Stuart Ross wrote: Wow, a review of Rod Smith in the Nation. Good to see such a gleam of hope and smartness. Excellent review. Stuart On 12/12/07 12:53 AM, "ALDON L NIELSEN" wrote: > [apologies if this was already posted here and I missed it] > > The Nation Magazine has a review of Rod Smith's DEED written by Joshua Clover. > It's in the Dec. 24, issue, though it has been on their web site since the > sixth! That's progressives for you. > > Here's the link: > > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > We are enslaved by > what makes us free -- intolerable > paradox at the heart of speech. > --Robert Kelly > > Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > > Aldon L. Nielsen > Kelly Professor of American Literature > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 11:06:14 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Poetry Journals needed for Creative Writing Course Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hey everyone - I'm teaching Creative Writing at Saint Louis University again next spring, and again I'm planning to use current poetry journals as textbooks. Last time I was blessed to receive complimentary copies from Chicago Review, Fourteen Hills, Court Green, Parakeet, and a few others. I need only 15 copies per journal. It would really help make my class vital to have them. If you think you'd like to pitch in, email me. Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:08:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Flynn Subject: Re: Rod Smith Meets The Nation In-Reply-To: <43469.35710.qm@web51810.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In September, John Palatella became literary editor of The Nation, so you can probably expect to see more poetically progressive stuff therein. Just check out their recent poetry. (You need to be a subscriber to see it online, however.) -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Mary Kasimor Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 11:18 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Rod Smith Meets The Nation Yes, The Nation is one of the best journals around and to get anything reviewed in that is wonderful! Mary Stuart Ross wrote: Wow, a review of Rod Smith in the Nation. Good to see such a gleam of hope and smartness. Excellent review. Stuart On 12/12/07 12:53 AM, "ALDON L NIELSEN" wrote: > [apologies if this was already posted here and I missed it] > > The Nation Magazine has a review of Rod Smith's DEED written by Joshua Clover. > It's in the Dec. 24, issue, though it has been on their web site since the > sixth! That's progressives for you. > > Here's the link: > > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > We are enslaved by > what makes us free -- intolerable > paradox at the heart of speech. > --Robert Kelly > > Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > > Aldon L. Nielsen > Kelly Professor of American Literature > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:25:18 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: eric unger Subject: Cedar Sigo's Expensive Magic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline House Press is thrilled to make available Cedar Sigo's Expensive Magic. With precision and elegance, these poems carry the reader through Astoria, the slums of Paris, through London, Abyssinia, and Tangiers. As poetry at times both terse and lush, the poems create a strange world threatening to spill into violence, but holding fast to those people the poet loves. Cedar is an exceptional talent, and we're happy to have him in our company. This is the first book in the House Press Bay Area poetry series. A reading will be held in January in San Francisco to celebrate the book. For more information about the series, please write to Michael Slosek at mslosek at fulbrightweb dot org. copies can be purchased for $6 at http://housepress.blogspot.com HousePress is an independent, poetry-centered arts community founded in Buffalo, NY in 2002. Authors / publishers live in Buffalo, Chicago, New York, Albany, Charlottesville, and San Francisco. More info : http://www.housepress.org http://housepress.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:26:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: sara marcus Subject: QT Readings, Dec. 18: Akilah Oliver + Stacy Szymaszek! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline *QT: Queer Readings at Dixon Place presents: AKILAH OLIVER + STACY SZYMASZEK Tuesday, December 18 * at Dixon Place: 258 Bowery, 2nd floor, between Houston & Prince (NYC) doors (+ snacks + drinks + hangouts) at 7 / reading at 7:30 AKILAH OLIVER's chapbooks include a(A)ugust (Yo-Yo Labs, 2007), The Putterer's Notebook (Belladonna, 2006), and An Arriving Guard of Angels, Thusly Coming to Greet (Farfalla Press, 2004). She is the author of the she said dialogues: flesh memory (Smokeproof/Erudite Fangs, 1999), a book of experimental prose poetry. Currently on faculty at the Jack Kerouac School of Disembodied Poetics, Naropa University's Summer Writing Program, she has also taught at the University of Colorado, Boulder, and she is currently the Monday Readings Coordinator for the Poetry Project at St. Mark's Church. She lives in Brooklyn. Some online Akilah Oliver: http://chax.org/eoagh/issue3/issuethree/oliver.html STACY SZYMASZEK was born in Milwaukee, WI, in 1969. She is currently the Artistic Director at the Poetry Project at St. Mark's Church-in-the-Bowery. Her chapbooks include Mutual Aid (gong, 2004), Pasolini Poems (Cy Press, 2005) and There Were Hostilities (release, 2005). She is the author of Emptied of All Ships and the forthcoming Hyperglossia (both with Litmus Press). She is the editor of Gam, is a contributing editor for Fascicle, coeditor of Instance Press, and was one of the editors of the "Queering Language" issue of EOAGH. A new work, Stacy S: Autoportraits, featuring her self-portraits with accompanying texts by Trane Devore, Renee Gladman, Lisa Jarnot, Kevin Killian, Anne Tardos, Tim Peterson, or Trace, Elizabeth Robinson, and David Gatten, will be out soon on OMG Press. Some online Stacy Szymaszek: http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/szymaszek_stacey.html -- QT: Queer Readings at Dixon Place http://qtreadings.blogspot.com http://www.myspace.com/qtreadings qtreadings [ at ] gmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:40:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: Rod Smith Meets The Nation Comments: To: Mary Kasimor In-Reply-To: 43469.35710.qm@web51810.mail.re2.yahoo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Yes, but as so often seems the case it is far more likely that they will review wonderful poetry than that they will publish it -- On Wed, Dec 12, 2007 11:18 AM, Mary Kasimor wrote: > Yes, The Nation is one of the best journals around and to get anything reviewed >in that is wonderful! > Mary > >Stuart Ross wrote: > Wow, a review of Rod Smith in the Nation. Good to see such a gleam of hope >and smartness. Excellent review. > >Stuart > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 11:45:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jen Tynes Subject: Re: Poetry Journals needed for Creative Writing Course In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Aaron, I don't have a journal to send, but what a great idea! On Dec 12, 2007 10:06 AM, Aaron Belz wrote: > Hey everyone - > > I'm teaching Creative Writing at Saint Louis University again next spring, > and again I'm planning to use current poetry journals as textbooks. Last > time I was blessed to receive complimentary copies from Chicago Review, > Fourteen Hills, Court Green, Parakeet, and a few others. I need only 15 > copies per journal. It would really help make my class vital to have them. > > If you think you'd like to pitch in, email me. > > Aaron > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:52:35 UT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: DATE field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: Patrick Dillon Subject: Yale Open Courses MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Yale has recently made some of their courses available on the web; they have the lectures recorded as transcripts, audio or full-length video, and there are accompanying handouts. One of the seven courses available is a course on Modern American Poetry. Taught by Langdon Hammer, the courses to appear to focus on individuals (beginning with Frost and ending with Bishop). I just learned about this moments ago, reading the Chronicle of Higher Ed at work, so I haven't had a chance to watch any of these movies--a streaming video would kill this ancient computer and fry our network--but I was curious to hear some responses. For one, I think that's a great name: Langdon Hammer. I have long been a fan of MIT's Open Courseware (ocw.mit.edu). I have daydreamed about becoming a self-taught physicist, economist, and botanist. I've balked at buying the most up-to-date textbooks, which seem to be the most key missing element, but the OCW has been useful, for example, when I was getting some exposure to electronic literature. The comprehensiveness of OCW is good too if you just want to browse through course syllabi. On first impression, which is all I have at the moment, Open Yale (a bad name, in my opinion) seems to serve a different function than OCW or other comparable websites. Some of the other websites that come to mind are PENNsound, the EPC, UBU, and meaningoflife.tv. Perhaps the only valid comparison is between Open Yale and MIT's OCW (or any other comparable website I'm not aware of) because these are both created by universities to reflect university itself, while these other websites are subject-based and comprised of primary material edited and moderated by dedicated individuals. It may be interesting to talk about some of the individual lectures (or maybe not at all), but I'm wondering what people thought about these kinds of website in general. Open Yale appears to be primarily about marketing the Yale classroom experience: fetishizing the teaching and classroom experience. They should have included video of students taking midterms, a 4'33" of the classroom. OCW is interesting because I think it could in some ways serve as a university-based replacement to Blackboard or similar programs. I assume most people will be biased towards the same websites as I am, but I am curious to hear responses. -- Patrick Dillon patrick_dillon@fastmail.fm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 14:07:05 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stuart Ross Subject: Re: Rod Smith Meets The Nation In-Reply-To: <1197484827l.954532l.0l@psu.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Well, I don't really go to The Nation to read poetry. Grateful that they would even review a book such as this. Stuart On 12/12/07 1:40 PM, "ALDON L NIELSEN" wrote: > Yes, but as so often seems the case it is far more likely that they will > review > wonderful poetry than that they will publish it -- > > On Wed, Dec 12, 2007 11:18 AM, Mary Kasimor wrote: > >> Yes, The Nation is one of the best journals around and to get anything > reviewed >> in that is wonderful! >> Mary >> >> Stuart Ross wrote: >> Wow, a review of Rod Smith in the Nation. Good to see such a gleam of hope >> and smartness. Excellent review. >> >> Stuart >> >> >> ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 14:09:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cris cheek Subject: looking for live work MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hiya, my name is cris cheek and i am an English poet currently living and working in south-west Ohio with Keith Tuma, Cathy Wagner and Bill Howe. A lot of you will know something of me i think. I've got a big book forthcoming from The Gig in 2008 and I'm looking to do some occurrences. to get around and about and meet folks Stateside more generally. The most recent publication available right now is "The Church, the School, the Beer" (Critical Documents, 2007) in a wonderful pocketbook version from jUStin katKO. I'm looking to do read and performances in just about any situation going. A lot of my work involves text-image <------> text-sound articulation and I will travel tech sufficient altho (despite the fact that i can belt it out when required . . . . and sometimes when completely uncalled for too) a decent PA is helpful for larger spaces. I can give talks and presentations both on my own poetic writing practice as well as on work by peers and on early twenty-first century British Poetry more broadly. What i do tends to be lively and varied and energizing and is often site-responsive. I'm particularly happy to be in Galleries spaces as i like to work with sound and image projection. I'm going to respond to any offers, but i'm also going to be trying to group things a little so that i'm zig-zagging the entire country on a nightly basis as Jimi Hendrix was forced into ;). I am on leave until next August, so hoping to get out and about and meet some of you before then, looking forwards love and love cris ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:27:25 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: Re: Rod Smith Meets The Nation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Not a bad review. He sure was apologetic in tone...I mean as in apologia, not like "sorry".... That one Smith quote he gives seems to really have legs...I've seen that like eight different places in the last year...it's a funny line...and so true.... Rod Smith has done so much for poetry...sort of DC's poetry boddhisatva for decades...AERIAL was (and is) such an important magazine...when futureavantpoets look back on the eighties and nineties it will probably be AERIAL, O.blek and only a handful of other mags they will want....great to see his own very strong work getting attention now... **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:39:22 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: Poetry Quiz Prize Goes Unclaimed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The ten question NAME THAT POET poetry quiz has seen valiant attempts...the current high score is a tie between Aaron Tieger and Gina Myers, who each have 5 correct questions. Questions 4 and 6 are generally conceded to be the most difficult...check your po'head at _http://www.joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/_ (http://www.joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/) **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:11:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Flynn Subject: Re: Rod Smith Meets The Nation In-Reply-To: <1197484827l.954532l.0l@psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, Aldon, there's an interesting Nathaniel Mackey poem in the December 10th issue. -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of ALDON L NIELSEN Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 1:40 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Rod Smith Meets The Nation Yes, but as so often seems the case it is far more likely that they will review wonderful poetry than that they will publish it -- On Wed, Dec 12, 2007 11:18 AM, Mary Kasimor wrote: > Yes, The Nation is one of the best journals around and to get anything reviewed >in that is wonderful! > Mary > >Stuart Ross wrote: > Wow, a review of Rod Smith in the Nation. Good to see such a gleam of hope >and smartness. Excellent review. > >Stuart > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 22:47:04 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: anti-heroes In-Reply-To: <8CA0A17927D84C9-3B0-79E@WEBMAIL-DC03.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline When we approach Nietzsche's philosophy we must be prepared to be independent thinkers; in fact, the greatest virtue of his works is perhaps the subtlety with which they impose the obligation upon one of thinking alone, of scoring off one's own bat, and of shifting intellectually for oneself. ANTHONY M. LUDOVICI. London, February 1909. Project Gutenberg Etext of Thus Spake Zarathustra by Friedrich Nietzsche Bobbi, I think that Nietzsche is one of our greatest thinkers. Finally revalued by Derrida hopefully new readings will be carried out. I am excerpting from an assignment I recently wrote. If I agree with you, i= t was not easy for Nietzsche to live up to his thought. Nietzsche was born in 1844 in a small village in Prussian Saxony. "He was the son and grandson (on both sides of the family) of Lutheran ministers." [1] He was influenced by Arthur Schopenhauer's anti-academic, ascetic, misogynist philosophy (1788-1860) an= d by the Wagner couple, to reject them violently later in *Human too human*together with the Christian religion (in Wagner's case, repelled by his increasing anti-Semitism[2] ). I sometimes see my hand with a certain diffidence because it seems to me to have in "my hand" humanity's destiny Friedrich Nietzsche, Letter to Gast, October 30, 1888; when he first announced *Ecce Homo*. Time hasn't arrived for me yet, there are men who were born posthumous. Friedrich Nietzsche, *Ecce Homo*. In the meantime I start becoming famous in an unprecedented way. I believe that never has a mortal being received letters as the ones I am receiving, and only by *refined* intelligences. Friedrich Nietzsche, Letter to Meta von Salis, December 29, 1888.[3] Lou Andreas-Salom=E9 wrote in the spring 1882: After I had gone back to Stibbe for the fall, we met again in October and for three weeks with Nietzsche in Leipzig. Neither of us thought that it would be the last time. Anyhow it was not as in the beginning, even if our wish of a common future with the three of us was still standing. [=85] Not only: Paul R=E9e kept hidden from me how such malicious tongues had irritat= ed *his* family against me, up to hate, even if in this case his mother's tendency to a pathological jealousy played a great part, she wanted to keep her son all and only for herself.[4] Paul Lanzky wrote in 1886: It was from 1882 that he started with the most dangerous substance, a palliative that brings to oblivion, and only with brief intervals, chloral: he ingested it to be able to overcome, besides his moral, physical sufferance.[5] It becomes evident at this point that Nietzsche was a victim of his times, his family, the overall oppressive mentality, and later by the German National Socialism translated into the SS and the extermination of the Jews= . Up to the point that he is still misunderstood by some uneducated feminists and extremist tough fringes that ignorantly at best deal with his words. ------------------------------ [1] *The Norton Anthology of Theory and Criticism,* page 870. [2] *The Norton Anthology of Theory and Criticism, *page 870 [3] The three quotations are taken from: *Nietzsche: nei ricordi e nelle testimonianze dei contemporanei, *cur= ated by Claudio Pozzoli, Bur, 1990. All translations are mine. [4] *Nietzsche: nei ricordi e nelle testimonianze dei contemporanei, *curated by Claudio Pozzoli, Bur, 1990, pages 289, 290. The translation is mine. [5] *Nietzsche: nei ricordi e nelle testimonianze dei contemporanei, *curated by Claudio Pozzoli, Bur, 1990, page 342. The translation is mine. Best, Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3Dpoetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche On Dec 11, 2007 3:16 PM, Bobbie Lurie wrote: > ------------------------------ > > Anny, > Your mentioning Nietzsche gives me an opportunity to share small portion > of book by Robert Kelly and Birgit > Kempker titled "Shame" which I highly recommend."...Nietzsche is ashamed > of the world but not about > his own self....Nietzsche is ashamed of his mother and his father, his > mother Mary and his father Jesus, > his opa Joachim and his oma Anna, Hannah, the grace of G-d. He is ashamed > of God's grace, his father's > money, he is ashamed of the Greek language but not of his own mastery of > it. He is ashamed of everything > but himself and his desires and his will to sing. Flamme bin ich, he says > famously, I am a flame and all > I can do is burn, and I do give light while I burn, and you will bask in > my light and warmth, and when I > am finished you'll find that I have burned up the whole world. Your world= . > Not mine. I am ashamed of my > world and turn my back on it." > Bobbi > > Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 07:36:15 +0100 > From: Anny Ballardini > Subject: Re: anti-heroes > > The hero of the hero and anti-hero dichotomy is Nietzsche, if read with > some > attention he is simple, it depends again on the students' will to approac= h > him. > Great choice the one of Mr. Ripley! I just watched the movie which is > quite > exceptional, by Minghella, script co-written with Highsmith. Otherwise: > Cormac McCarthy: Suttree and The Road. > > On Dec 10, 2007 12:09 AM, Mary Kasimor wrote: > > > Charles, > > Nor am I. I think that anti-hero can be defined in different ways. > Clint > > Eastwood's movies are a good example. Roberto Bolano's Savage Detective= s > is > > a wonderful example, but it is very very long. (Very few of my students > are > > readers. (sigh). > > Mary > > > > Charles Alexander wrote: > > Notes from Underground, Dostoevsky, for a terrific example of anti- > > hero. Influential, I think, on practically everything of anti-hero > > since. And for a more "pop" approach, the Clint Eastwood Italian > > westerns, i.e. A Fistful of Dollars, For a Few Dollars More, & The > > Good, The Bad, & The Ugly. I am not up on critical works on the > > notion of the "anti-hero." > > > > charles > > > > > > charles alexander > > chax press > > chax@theriver.com > > 650 e. ninth st. > > tucson arizona 8505 > > 520 620 1626 > > > > > > > > > > On Dec 9, 2007, at 7:52 AM, Mary Kasimor wrote: > > > > > I am thinking of teaching a freshman compostion class with a "hero > > > and anti-hero" theme. Most of my students are not great readers, so > > > it can't be a philosophical tome (although who knows? I may be > > > surprised.) Does anyone have any good ideas for a book about or on > > > "anti-hero" > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > Mary Kasimor > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - > http://webmail.aol.com > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:06:25 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: 20th century long poems In-Reply-To: <1b74eae70712111334i172a8757i9f9b5ff9f347e6b0@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Thanks for this one. For some reason I've never encountered Lee Groban before. He sounds like quite the character. Plus he in fact does hold the record for the longest poem. Here's an excerpt from of the poem on his website: http://www.lee-groban.com/insomnia.html On Dec 11, 2007, at 3:34 PM, Michael Ford wrote: > The longest poem I know of is Lee Groban's CURE FOR INSOMNIA. It > has not > been published, though, and is probably unpublishable. Lee's > website says > that it is over 5,000 pages long and still unfinished. 20 years > ago someone > made a movie of him reading the poem (cut together with assorted video > footage). The movie is 87 hours long. > > Michael Ford > There's many a bestseller that could have been prevented by a good teacher. --Flannery O'Connor ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:09:24 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Waterboarding and Poetry: the new American Extreme Experimental Poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Given the immense amount of "discussion" re Waterboarding in the news-- this may/may not be of "innarest" as William Burroughs wd. say-- includes images and poetry and--"investigative" and "inventigative" reporting-- David Chirot has sent you a link to a blog: Blog: DAVID-BAPTISTE CHIROT Post: Waterboarding and Poetry: 15th Century France--21st Century USA Link: http://davidbaptistechirot.blogspot.com/2007/12/waterboarding-and-poetry-15th-century.html -- Powered by Blogger http://www.blogger.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:53:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ric carfagna Subject: Re: 20th century long poems Comments: cc: dtv@MWT.NET MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit meIEKAL, The beauty of a long piece is that it is always revealing new ways of interpreting itself over time to the reader. To immerse oneself in the intricacies, depth and complexity of a long work is one of the distinctions poetry offers. That is what draws me to the form of the long poem and all its diverse manifestations, from structured pieces like Merrill's Changing light to the more free-flowing works of Asberry and Ammonns,Olson, etc . My interest in the long poem is one of aesthetics, continuity and of course its history and evolution. The way I approach reading a long poem is not all at once, but it is rather a systematic study over time of its form, content and overall impression. The concentrated aspects of poetry's nature is what I believe brings about the myriad ways to approach, interpret and dissect its essence. I find your Congeries an intriguing work. The heterogeneity one experiences when first approaching it is to me a jumping off point into unknown semantic wilderness. This is just the point I was trying to make in my above statement. This work indeed promises the complexities and rewards which makes the whole nature of poetry a worthwhile art form in which to immerse oneself. You've succeeded in showing this with the examples you present on your site, albeit static or not. I look forward to someday seeing & obtaining a complete copy. Do you find 'conventional' (read paper copy) publishers positive and accepting of your work? Historically, works of this nature has a notoriously checkered past, and it's only the passage of time which proves to be the measure with which they are weighed and find favor. Also, has someone done an interview with you regarding the work, or are there any essays floating around wherein I can glean some info into it's method of construction,extent etc? I think a work of this diversity and complexity deserves to be studied and expounded in depth. As far as my own composing of a long poem, well I'm not shooting for any record books and I don't shout it from rooftops. I'm rather low-key about soliciting my work these days. When all's said and done (and written) it should shake out to be 800 plus pages, or thereabouts. I just recently finished a 350 page installment of it which I will be sending out for potential publication next month. If it gets selected that'll be great, but I understand publishers apprehension these days about taking on new, experimentalish work. To me it's just the satisfaction of actually completing something. Whether it's historically accepted and actually read by others or not is a moot point. I guess we all have an impression of how someone else should interpret our work, how we hope they appreciate all the nuances and poignancies that went into its composition. But then again that would be in a perfect world, and we know that that's not the case. But I'm positive about it (the world that is) just the same!!! Be Well, Ric ----- Original Message ----- From: "mIEKAL aND" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 4:24 PM Subject: Re: 20th century long poems > RIC > > I'd love to see this list consider any one of these poems in depth. Long > poems in general have been ignored spurned neglected for far too long. > As time moves forward it seems the attention span grows shorter, even > physically having the time to read 800 pages is an improbability for most > people. Also I think the internet & hypertext has had a profound effect > on how larger bodies of information are organized & accessed. I've been > working for a number of years trying to come up with an online portal for > my long poem but to date I haven't come up with an interface that would > allow the reader to navigate intuitively thru the work. Maybe when I can > add a bit of AI to to the interface that would query a person's tastes > and interests (or read from their facebook profile :) & then, knowing a > person's interests, would affect what is presented on the screen. > > About a third of my long poem SAMSARA CONGERIES is online here in a > static format > > http://xexoxial.org/samsara_congeries/?q=book > > & hopefully I'll have a final typescript of the poem (which I started in > 1978) finished in the next month. It, by the way, runs somewhere over > 800 pages but I'd like design it in such a way that it could be around > 500 pages. Finding a publisher for it will be harder than writing it. > > What I really wonder, Ric, is why the question in the first place? What > does knowing the number of pages of a long poem really tell us about the > long poem itself. Perhaps yr plotting a new entry in the Guiness World > Book of Records? > > Now how long is your long poem? > > ~mIEKAL > > > > On Dec 10, 2007, at 9:24 PM, ric carfagna wrote: > >> Although it is not the longest, the unjustly neglected Tahl by Jeremy >> Ingalls weighs in at 621 pages. Let's start our discussion with that one >> mIEKAL! >> >> I also notice that Steve mentioned Jones' In Parenthesis; he also wrote >> The >> Anathemata >> as well as the unfinished Roman Quarry which if he had lived to complete >> it >> would have been longer that both his previously mentioned works. >> >> By the way, how long is Peter Ganick's Splintered?? >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "mIEKAL aND" >> To: >> Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 8:12 PM >> Subject: Re: 20th century long poems >> >> >>> If only we spent this time having real discussions about these titles >>> ... >>> >> > > 24/7 PROTOMEDIA BREEDING GROUND > > JOGLARS CROSSMEDIA BROADCAST > (collaborative text & media) > http://www.joglars.org > > SPIDERTANGLE > International Network of VisPoets > http://www.spidertangle.net > > XEXOXIAL EDITIONS > Appropriate Scale Publishing since 1980 > http://www.xexoxial.org > > INTERNALATIONAL DICTIONARY OF NEOLOGISMS > research | reference | ongoing collection > http://www.neologisms.us > > Dreamtime Village > Hypermedia Permaculture EcoVillage in Southwest Wisconsin > http://www.dreamtimevillage.org > > "The word is the first stereotype." Isidore Isou, 1947. > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:07:19 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Matt Henriksen Subject: Sat 12/16 ::: Iijima, Lamoureux & Schuldt ::: Brooklyn MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The Burning Chair Readings & Cannibal Books gleefully extend to you more than enough of an excuse \ to break it down book-release-party-style with three fantastic poet-editors Morgan Lucas Schuldt author of Verge Free Verse Editions (2007) & editor of Cue: A Journal of Prose Poetry Brenda Iijima author of Animate, Inanimate Aims Litmus Press (2007) & editor of Portable Press at Yo Yo Labs Mark Lamoureux author of Astrometry Organon Spuyten Duyvil (forthcoming) editor of Cy Gist Press Saturday, December 15th, 8PM Unnameable Books 456 Bergen Street Brooklyn, NY unnameablebooks.net Bring wine etc. We'll bring some,too. flesheatingpoems.blogspot.com typomag.com.burningchair ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 17:23:56 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: anti-heroes In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70712121347nb016474sdbcf4fc78b3f1084@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I laughed all the way through Ecce Homo, the first book of Nietzsche's that I read, in the way one laughs at tragedy. It is an absurd and sad book. Though I think almost all of Nietzsche is pretty funny, or at least, most misunderstood when its humour is mislaid. My favourite is The Gay Science. Where indeed he says: In the great majority, the intellect is a clumsy, gloomy, creaking machine that is difficult to start: they call it "taking the matter seriously" when they want to work with this machine and think well - oh how burdensome they must find good thinking! The lovely human beast always seems to lose its good spirits when it thinks well; it becomes "serious"! And "where laughter and gaiety are found, thinking does not amount to anything": - that is the prejudice of this serious beast against all "gay science." - Well then, let us prove that this is a prejudice! A On Dec 13, 2007 8:47 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > When we approach Nietzsche's philosophy we must be prepared to be > independent thinkers; in fact, the greatest virtue of his works is perhaps > the subtlety with which they impose the obligation upon one of thinking > alone, of scoring off one's own bat, and of shifting intellectually for > oneself. > > ANTHONY M. LUDOVICI. London, February 1909. Project Gutenberg Etext of > Thus > Spake Zarathustra by Friedrich Nietzsche > > > -- Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 03:28:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Perhaps a way of teaching media MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Perhaps a way of teaching media (I've been filling in for a couple of film courses at Brown University, and this has led me to think through distributed knowledge in an 'open' classroom, and how that plays out. The courses were, I think, extremely successful. I've been partly inspired by two artist/teachers from the 1970s-80s: David Askevold at the Nova Scotia College of Art and Design, and Lutz Presser at the Tasmanian School of Art. Neither of them taught in any conventional sense; both had a sense of student professionalism and 'being' that created outstanding works and environment. So below is just some thinking about all of this; it's hardly original. it seems to work well for me and my students, most of the time. There are also times I'm a miserable, neurotic failure, but that's another issue, and not necess- arily related.) 1 In terms of authority - everyone in the class, including the teacher, on equal footing. I think authority comes from knowledge, not titles, formal- ity, etc. This is hard to do within an institution where power is the fundamental backdrop of the classroom, but I've done it as much as poss- ible. 2 Distributed knowledge among students and faculty. In many areas, partic- ularly those dealing with digital and popular culture, students are often more knowledgeable than faculty. This is especially true with software - students are apt to have used and hacked programs I haven't. Knowledge is distributed and students and faculty work together, empower each other. The classroom becomes a holarchic space of production, exploration, and critique. I have to recognize that what I know, in many areas, is already outdated. 3 No assignments except for technical in the beginning which may or may not be completed. Students find their own paths through the class, subject matter, and production. Students who are confused or aren't motivated should be helped along, of course; the more collaborative the class is, the more these students might be carried forward within a general atmos- phere of communality. This area might be the most difficult - how to work with unmotivated or reticent students - but I've found there are almost always workarounds; at times, students might even ask for assignments or help with content and/or media. 4 Learning equally from students as students from you. This goes along with distributed knowledge; there's also distributed learning. If I'm not learning, I'm not teaching well; if the class seems closed in this respect, I'm doing something wrong. 5 Students/faculty = equal participants. Again, this plays out against the backdrop of fundamental power, but that power should be deconstructed as much as possible. Along with this - try to interest as many other faculty as possible in the course (I've not been so successful here), and encour- age students to bring outsiders in as well. Obviously there are limits on this, but in general it works well. 6 Students treated as artists/writers/filmmakers to to the fullest extent possible. The most successful classes I've seen are those in which stu- dents are considered as producers in their own right. If I begin with the idea that what a student is doing isn't 'student work,' more often than not, I've found that students rise to the occasion. 7 "Professional" advice. Discussing art-making after university - how to present, distribute, survive, both online and offline. Encouraging stu- dents to submit work to suitable venues, organize screenings or exhibi- tions, etc. I've also encouraged students to do their own media/art history as much as possible; what's current is what is/will become the student's environment, once she leaves university. I've tended to share my own work/experiences in class to a limited extent, trying to keep students from stylistic influence. 8 Students are free to work on whatever, including sliding into other genres, media. Since the work is student-determined, ostensible class content might not be the most suitable for a particular project. Instead of dropping the project, perhaps change it, or change media. (I feel I'm not presenting this stuff as well as I should be; others have done a far better job of it. The main points are both a kind of withdrawal on the part of the teacher, and an emphasis on distributed learning and production on the part of the class as a whole. This doesn't work for everyone in all situations - but when it does, the results are amazing in so many ways.) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 00:59:13 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: Waterboarding and Poetry: the new American Extreme Experimental Poetry In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thanks, David. I agree that the Poems from Guantanamo are more significant than many will allow. And so much of the art of that book is in the sort of remarks you make in your blog. What you write about the book and what other poets and artists make of that book and the circumstances out of which it arose is sure to multiply into an exegesis of the current state. I will try to do a dbCinema series on "Poems from Guantanamo" ja http://vispo.com > Given the immense amount of "discussion" re Waterboarding in the news-- > this may/may not be of "innarest" as William Burroughs wd. say-- > includes images and poetry and--"investigative" and > "inventigative" reporting-- > > Blog: DAVID-BAPTISTE CHIROT > Post: Waterboarding and Poetry: 15th Century France--21st Century USA > Link: > http://davidbaptistechirot.blogspot.com/2007/12/waterboarding-and- poetry-15th-century.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 08:19:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bobbie Lurie Subject: anti-hero topic and re: internet communication In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Anthony, The words I sent were not my own but a quote I sent from Robert Kelly and Birgit Kempker's book "Shame"--it is a book in which they discuss the issue of "Shame" and only shame--it's an interesting book in that it holds to this theme/it examines this issue (shame) in exhaustive detail due to the very personal/ interpersonal way in which it is written, written both in German and English. It is not a scholarly text but an interpersonal discussion of rare honesty. I was not attempting to discuss Nietzsche's philosophy but rather to respond to Mary's request for ideas on the anti-hero (Anny called Nietzsche hero and anti-hero both)(your links did not work but sent me to google sign in page so I'm sorry I was unable to read them) I felt, in terms of the idea of "anti-hero" which becomes increasingly vague as I think about it, that this passage (by Kelly and Kempker) illustrates an aspect of the anti-hero. I agree with you that most anti-heros find it hard to live up to their thoughts but, as Alan pointed out, heros are known for their actions. Here is another quote from this book: "I am ashamed of myself because language never ends"--this is the shame I feel whenever I post on lists (or even (maybe especially) backchannels at this point). (something I have come to realize--impulse I feel and then regret acting upon--in communicating via internet--but that's another topic--having nothing to do with your response in the least--I appreciate your response--but more re: internet: the "illusion" of communication vs. the misunderstandings which follow due to limitations of email communications coupled with fact that I realize I imagine some "invisible listener" as I do when I write poetry--but as I say in response to who I write for I always use this complete sentence: "I write to an invisible listener who may or may not exist"--for me, the internet makes me feel ever more certain that there is no invisible listener--I feel internet communications require a different set of rules, rules I have yet to understand. And so, I would like to respond to Mary's question re: the anti-hero and, in spite of the fact that I know this will jive badly with that terrible cover of "person of the year" or whatever, I feel I'd like to suggest to Mary that the internet is the anti-hero. It puts off the existential crisis (thank you A. but I do not hold you responsible) that lurks beneath and erupts suddenly after veneer of internet/ illusion of connection and communication when truly it is a blank screen and what we imagine. I find it more painful than 3-d life. So I'd say the internet is the anti-hero (but that's just for this early a.m. with little sleep cause I'm just a stupid human being...most obviously) Thank you, Bobbi ANTHONY M. LUDOVICI. London, February 1909. Project Gutenberg Etext of Thus Spake Zarathustra by Friedrich Nietzsche Bobbi, I think that Nietzsche is one of our greatest thinkers. Finally revalued by Derrida hopefully new readings will be carried out. I am excerpting from an assignment I recently wrote. If I agree with you, i= t was not easy for Nietzsche to live up to his thought. Nietzsche was born in 1844 in a small village in Prussian Saxony. "He was the son and grandson (on both sides of the family) of Lutheran ministers." [1] He was influenced by Arthur Schopenhauer's anti-academic, ascetic, misogynist philosophy (1788-1860) an= d by the Wagner couple, to reject them violently later in *Human too human*together with the Christian religion (in Wagner's case, repelled by his increasing anti-Semitism[2] ). I sometimes see my hand with a certain diffidence because it seems to me to have in "my hand" humanity's destiny Friedrich Nietzsche, Letter to Gast, October 30, 1888; when he first announced *Ecce Homo*. Time hasn't arrived for me yet, there are men who were born posthumous. Friedrich Nietzsche, *Ecce Homo*. In the meantime I start becoming famous in an unprecedented way. I believe that never has a mortal being received letters as the ones I am receiving, and only by *refined* intelligences. Friedrich Nietzsche, Letter to Meta von Salis, December 29, 1888.[3] Lou Andreas-Salom=E9 wrote in the spring 1882: After I had gone back to Stibbe for the fall, we met again in October and for three weeks with Nietzsche in Leipzig. Neither of us thought that it would be the last time. Anyhow it was not as in the beginning, even if our wish of a common future with the three of us was still standing. [=85] Not only: Paul R=E9e kept hidden from me how such malicious tongues had irritat= ed *his* family against me, up to hate, even if in this case his mother's tendency to a pathological jealousy played a great part, she wanted to keep her son all and only for herself.[4] Paul Lanzky wrote in 1886: It was from 1882 that he started with the most dangerous substance, a palliative that brings to oblivion, and only with brief intervals, chloral: he ingested it to be able to overcome, besides his moral, physical sufferance.[5] It becomes evident at this point that Nietzsche was a victim of his times, his family, the overall oppressive mentality, and later by the German National Socialism translated into the SS and the extermination of the Jews= . Up to the point that he is still misunderstood by some uneducated feminists and extremist tough fringes that ignorantly at best deal with his words. ----------------------------- [1] *The Norton Anthology of Theory and Criticism,* page 870. [2] *The Norton Anthology of Theory and Criticism, *page 870 [3] The three quotations are taken from: *Nietzsche: nei ricordi e nelle testimonianze dei contemporanei, *cur= ated by Claudio Pozzoli, Bur, 1990. All translations are mine. [4] *Nietzsche: nei ricordi e nelle testimonianze dei contemporanei, *curated by Claudio Pozzoli, Bur, 1990, pages 289, 290. The translation is mine. [5] *Nietzsche: nei ricordi e nelle testimonianze dei contemporanei, *curated by Claudio Pozzoli, Bur, 1990, page 342. The translation is mine. Best, Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3Dpoetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche On Dec 11, 2007 3:16 PM, Bobbie Lurie wrote: > ------------------------------ > > Anny, > Your mentioning Nietzsche gives me an opportunity to share small portion > of book by Robert Kelly and Birgit > Kempker titled "Shame" which I highly recommend."...Nietzsche is ashamed > of the world but not about > his own self....Nietzsche is ashamed of his mother and his father, his > mother Mary and his father Jesus, > his opa Joachim and his oma Anna, Hannah, the grace of G-d. He is ashamed > of God's grace, his father's > money, he is ashamed of the Greek language but not of his own mastery of > it. He is ashamed of everything > but himself and his desires and his will to sing. Flamme bin ich, he says > famously, I am a flame and all > I can do is burn, and I do give light while I burn, and you will bask in > my light and warmth, and when I > am finished you'll find that I have burned up the whole world. Your world= . > Not mine. I am ashamed of my > world and turn my back on it." > Bobbi > > Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 07:36:15 +0100 > From: Anny Ballardini > Subject: Re: anti-heroes > > The hero of the hero and anti-hero dichotomy is Nietzsche, if read with > some > attention he is simple, it depends again on the students' will to approac= h > him. > Great choice the one of Mr. Ripley! I just watched the movie which is > quite > exceptional, by Minghella, script co-written with Highsmith. Otherwise: > Cormac McCarthy: Suttree and The Road. > > On Dec 10, 2007 12:09 AM, Mary Kasimor wrote: > > > Charles, > > Nor am I. I think that anti-hero can be defined in different ways. > Clint > > Eastwood's movies are a good example. Roberto Bolano's Savage Detective= s > is > > a wonderful example, but it is very very long. (Very few of my students > are > > readers. (sigh). > > Mary > > > > Charles Alexander wrote: > > Notes from Underground, Dostoevsky, for a terrific example of anti- > > hero. Influential, I think, on practically everything of anti-hero > > since. And for a more "pop" approach, the Clint Eastwood Italian > > westerns, i.e. A Fistful of Dollars, For a Few Dollars More, & The > > Good, The Bad, & The Ugly. I am not up on critical works on the > > notion of the "anti-hero." > > > > charles > > > > > > charles alexander > > chax press > > chax@theriver.com > > 650 e. ninth st. > > tucson arizona 8505 > > 520 620 1626 > > > > > > > > > > On Dec 9, 2007, at 7:52 AM, Mary Kasimor wrote: > > > > > I am thinking of teaching a freshman compostion class with a "hero > > > and anti-hero" theme. Most of my students are not great readers, so > > > it can't be a philosophical tome (although who knows? I may be > > > surprised.) Does anyone have any good ideas for a book about or on > > > "anti-hero" > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > Mary Kasimor > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 08:23:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Metta Sama Subject: Re: Perhaps a way of teaching media MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hi, Alan thanks for submitting these ideas for a (dare i) democratic (versus bureaucratic dictator) classroom. i'm reading this with much interest, & thinking also of _Beat Not the Poor Desk_. in regards to your number 6, a colleague where i teach does just that: bring in other faculty members to teach in areas where your knowledge may be lacking. he's teaching a World Poetry course, & has various faculty from various departments who are primary speakers of whichever language come in and read the work in its original language, then a translation & talk about translation, as well as their first introduction of said poet. (the faculty choose their own poets, even if its not in the class anthology). the students & the professor are then taught some key words/phrases so they can try their own hand at translation. it's been quite fun to hear about. i try to bring in non-faculty, non-academic folks to the classroom, which is often difficult because of money issues, but when money is not an obstacle, i find it helpful to bring it artists who have made a way without academia. M ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 07:31:26 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Kasimor Subject: Re: anti-hero topic and re: internet communication In-Reply-To: <8CA0BA1F0C54E2C-754-4FD9@FWM-D44.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hmm, I will have to reread your email again. I do know that the internet does give me a false security. I teach an online class, and I surprise myself with my rants, but I don't think that is what you are telling me. That is why I will need to reread this (over and over) again. Thanks. Mary Bobbie Lurie wrote: Anthony, The words I sent were not my own but a quote I sent from Robert Kelly and Birgit Kempker's book "Shame"--it is a book in which they discuss the issue of "Shame" and only shame--it's an interesting book in that it holds to this theme/it examines this issue (shame) in exhaustive detail due to the very personal/ interpersonal way in which it is written, written both in German and English. It is not a scholarly text but an interpersonal discussion of rare honesty. I was not attempting to discuss Nietzsche's philosophy but rather to respond to Mary's request for ideas on the anti-hero (Anny called Nietzsche hero and anti-hero both)(your links did not work but sent me to google sign in page so I'm sorry I was unable to read them) I felt, in terms of the idea of "anti-hero" which becomes increasingly vague as I think about it, that this passage (by Kelly and Kempker) illustrates an aspect of the anti-hero. I agree with you that most anti-heros find it hard to live up to their thoughts but, as Alan pointed out, heros are known for their actions. Here is another quote from this book: "I am ashamed of myself because language never ends"--this is the shame I feel whenever I post on lists (or even (maybe especially) backchannels at this point). (something I have come to realize--impulse I feel and then regret acting upon--in communicating via internet--but that's another topic--having nothing to do with your response in the least--I appreciate your response--but more re: internet: the "illusion" of communication vs. the misunderstandings which follow due to limitations of email communications coupled with fact that I realize I imagine some "invisible listener" as I do when I write poetry--but as I say in response to who I write for I always use this complete sentence: "I write to an invisible listener who may or may not exist"--for me, the internet makes me feel ever more certain that there is no invisible listener--I feel internet communications require a different set of rules, rules I have yet to understand. And so, I would like to respond to Mary's question re: the anti-hero and, in spite of the fact that I know this will jive badly with that terrible cover of "person of the year" or whatever, I feel I'd like to suggest to Mary that the internet is the anti-hero. It puts off the existential crisis (thank you A. but I do not hold you responsible) that lurks beneath and erupts suddenly after veneer of internet/ illusion of connection and communication when truly it is a blank screen and what we imagine. I find it more painful than 3-d life. So I'd say the internet is the anti-hero (but that's just for this early a.m. with little sleep cause I'm just a stupid human being...most obviously) Thank you, Bobbi ANTHONY M. LUDOVICI. London, February 1909. Project Gutenberg Etext of Thus Spake Zarathustra by Friedrich Nietzsche Bobbi, I think that Nietzsche is one of our greatest thinkers. Finally revalued by Derrida hopefully new readings will be carried out. I am excerpting from an assignment I recently wrote. If I agree with you, i= t was not easy for Nietzsche to live up to his thought. Nietzsche was born in 1844 in a small village in Prussian Saxony. "He was the son and grandson (on both sides of the family) of Lutheran ministers." [1] He was influenced by Arthur Schopenhauer's anti-academic, ascetic, misogynist philosophy (1788-1860) an= d by the Wagner couple, to reject them violently later in *Human too human*together with the Christian religion (in Wagner's case, repelled by his increasing anti-Semitism[2] ). I sometimes see my hand with a certain diffidence because it seems to me to have in "my hand" humanity's destiny Friedrich Nietzsche, Letter to Gast, October 30, 1888; when he first announced *Ecce Homo*. Time hasn't arrived for me yet, there are men who were born posthumous. Friedrich Nietzsche, *Ecce Homo*. In the meantime I start becoming famous in an unprecedented way. I believe that never has a mortal being received letters as the ones I am receiving, and only by *refined* intelligences. Friedrich Nietzsche, Letter to Meta von Salis, December 29, 1888.[3] Lou Andreas-Salom=E9 wrote in the spring 1882: After I had gone back to Stibbe for the fall, we met again in October and for three weeks with Nietzsche in Leipzig. Neither of us thought that it would be the last time. Anyhow it was not as in the beginning, even if our wish of a common future with the three of us was still standing. [=85] Not only: Paul R=E9e kept hidden from me how such malicious tongues had irritat= ed *his* family against me, up to hate, even if in this case his mother's tendency to a pathological jealousy played a great part, she wanted to keep her son all and only for herself.[4] Paul Lanzky wrote in 1886: It was from 1882 that he started with the most dangerous substance, a palliative that brings to oblivion, and only with brief intervals, chloral: he ingested it to be able to overcome, besides his moral, physical sufferance.[5] It becomes evident at this point that Nietzsche was a victim of his times, his family, the overall oppressive mentality, and later by the German National Socialism translated into the SS and the extermination of the Jews= . Up to the point that he is still misunderstood by some uneducated feminists and extremist tough fringes that ignorantly at best deal with his words. ----------------------------- [1] *The Norton Anthology of Theory and Criticism,* page 870. [2] *The Norton Anthology of Theory and Criticism, *page 870 [3] The three quotations are taken from: *Nietzsche: nei ricordi e nelle testimonianze dei contemporanei, *cur= ated by Claudio Pozzoli, Bur, 1990. All translations are mine. [4] *Nietzsche: nei ricordi e nelle testimonianze dei contemporanei, *curated by Claudio Pozzoli, Bur, 1990, pages 289, 290. The translation is mine. [5] *Nietzsche: nei ricordi e nelle testimonianze dei contemporanei, *curated by Claudio Pozzoli, Bur, 1990, page 342. The translation is mine. Best, Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3Dpoetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche On Dec 11, 2007 3:16 PM, Bobbie Lurie wrote: > ------------------------------ > > Anny, > Your mentioning Nietzsche gives me an opportunity to share small portion > of book by Robert Kelly and Birgit > Kempker titled "Shame" which I highly recommend."...Nietzsche is ashamed > of the world but not about > his own self....Nietzsche is ashamed of his mother and his father, his > mother Mary and his father Jesus, > his opa Joachim and his oma Anna, Hannah, the grace of G-d. He is ashamed > of God's grace, his father's > money, he is ashamed of the Greek language but not of his own mastery of > it. He is ashamed of everything > but himself and his desires and his will to sing. Flamme bin ich, he says > famously, I am a flame and all > I can do is burn, and I do give light while I burn, and you will bask in > my light and warmth, and when I > am finished you'll find that I have burned up the whole world. Your world= . > Not mine. I am ashamed of my > world and turn my back on it." > Bobbi > > Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 07:36:15 +0100 > From: Anny Ballardini > Subject: Re: anti-heroes > > The hero of the hero and anti-hero dichotomy is Nietzsche, if read with > some > attention he is simple, it depends again on the students' will to approac= h > him. > Great choice the one of Mr. Ripley! I just watched the movie which is > quite > exceptional, by Minghella, script co-written with Highsmith. Otherwise: > Cormac McCarthy: Suttree and The Road. > > On Dec 10, 2007 12:09 AM, Mary Kasimor wrote: > > > Charles, > > Nor am I. I think that anti-hero can be defined in different ways. > Clint > > Eastwood's movies are a good example. Roberto Bolano's Savage Detective= s > is > > a wonderful example, but it is very very long. (Very few of my students > are > > readers. (sigh). > > Mary > > > > Charles Alexander wrote: > > Notes from Underground, Dostoevsky, for a terrific example of anti- > > hero. Influential, I think, on practically everything of anti-hero > > since. And for a more "pop" approach, the Clint Eastwood Italian > > westerns, i.e. A Fistful of Dollars, For a Few Dollars More, & The > > Good, The Bad, & The Ugly. I am not up on critical works on the > > notion of the "anti-hero." > > > > charles > > > > > > charles alexander > > chax press > > chax@theriver.com > > 650 e. ninth st. > > tucson arizona 8505 > > 520 620 1626 > > > > > > > > > > On Dec 9, 2007, at 7:52 AM, Mary Kasimor wrote: > > > > > I am thinking of teaching a freshman compostion class with a "hero > > > and anti-hero" theme. Most of my students are not great readers, so > > > it can't be a philosophical tome (although who knows? I may be > > > surprised.) Does anyone have any good ideas for a book about or on > > > "anti-hero" > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > Mary Kasimor > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 10:05:04 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Re: Poetry Journals needed for Creative Writing Course In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Jen- Thanks! It's really helpful and fun for the students. It's also edifying for me, because it opens my eyes to a lot of stuff I didn't know about. Last time around, I hadn't seen Fourteen Hills. It turned out to be a very spiffy journal. Also I had the students imitate a poem of their choice. The results were just terrific. One of them won the prize for best poem by an undergrad at SLU that year!! Aaron Aaron, I don't have a journal to send, but what a great idea! On Dec 12, 2007 10:06 AM, Aaron Belz wrote: > Hey everyone - > > I'm teaching Creative Writing at Saint Louis University again next spring, > and again I'm planning to use current poetry journals as textbooks. Last > time I was blessed to receive complimentary copies from Chicago Review, > Fourteen Hills, Court Green, Parakeet, and a few others. I need only 15 > copies per journal. It would really help make my class vital to have them. > > If you think you'd like to pitch in, email me. > > Aaron > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 11:08:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: PEPC Library: New Resources MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Some new resources at the PEPC Library http://writing.upenn.edu/pepc/contents.html Bruce Andrews & Charles Bernstein, eds, L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E Lines (1988) [pdf, theory/praxis by Weiner, Drucker, McCaffery, Inman, Grenier, Mandel, Silliman, Hejinian, Benson, Howe, eds.] Susan Bee & Jerome Rothenberg, Burning Babe (Granary Books, 2005) [pdf, complete book) Bob Cobbing, Sockless in Sandals (1985) Robert Kelly, Earish (homeophonic translations of Paul Celan) Daniil Kharms, two short works from Today I Wrote Nothing @ PEPC Library: http://writing.upenn.edu/pepc/contents.html PLUS The Yellow Pages ads: complete outtakes http://writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/Bernstein-YP2.html -------- http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/bernstein/blog ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 11:17:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William Allegrezza Subject: Moria: Reviewers and Books MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I'm looking for new reviewers for Moria and some new books. I'd like to strengthen the review section. If you have any books you'd like to send, e-mail me for an address. If you want to review, just e-mail. Best, Bill Allegrezza (wallegrezza@gmail.com) www.moriapoetry.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 18:01:57 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: anti-hero topic and re: internet communication In-Reply-To: <8CA0BA1F0C54E2C-754-4FD9@FWM-D44.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline :-) this makes me smile. Anthony Ludovici is the author of the quotation I chose to start my answer to your message. It was the .am probably. Do not worry. Anny On Dec 13, 2007 2:19 PM, Bobbie Lurie wrote: > Anthony, > The words I sent were not my own but a quote I sent from Robert Kelly and > Birgit Kempker's > book "Shame"--it is a book in which they discuss the issue of "Shame" and > only shame--it's an > interesting book in that it holds to this theme/it examines this issue > (shame) in exhaustive detail > due to the very personal/ interpersonal way in which it is written, > written both in German and English. > It is not a scholarly text but an interpersonal discussion of rare > honesty. > I was not attempting to discuss Nietzsche's philosophy but rather to > respond to Mary's request for ideas > on the anti-hero (Anny called Nietzsche hero and anti-hero both)(your > links did not work but sent me to > google sign in page so I'm sorry I was unable to read them) > I felt, in terms of the idea of "anti-hero" which becomes increasingly > vague as I think about it, that > this passage (by Kelly and Kempker) illustrates an aspect of the > anti-hero. I agree with you that > most anti-heros find it hard to live up to their thoughts but, as Alan > pointed out, heros are known > for their actions. > > > Here is another quote from this book: "I am ashamed of myself because > language never ends"--this is > the shame I feel whenever I post on lists (or even (maybe especially) > backchannels at this point). > (something I have come to realize--impulse I feel and then regret acting > upon--in communicating via > internet--but that's another topic--having nothing to do with your > response in the least--I appreciate > your response--but more re: internet: the "illusion" of communication vs. > the misunderstandings which > follow due to limitations of email communications coupled with fact that I > realize I imagine some > "invisible listener" as I do when I write poetry--but as I say in response > to who I write for I always > use this complete sentence: "I write to an invisible listener who may or > may not exist"--for me, the > internet makes me feel ever more certain that there is no invisible > listener--I feel internet > communications require a different set of rules, rules I have yet to > understand. And so, I would like > to respond to Mary's question re: the anti-hero and, in spite of the fact > that I know this will jive > badly with that terrible cover of "person of the year" or whatever, I feel > I'd like to suggest to > Mary that the internet is the anti-hero. It puts off the existential > crisis (thank you A. but I do > not hold you responsible) that lurks beneath and erupts suddenly after > veneer of internet/ illusion > of connection and communication when truly it is a blank screen and what > we imagine. I find it more > painful than 3-d life. So I'd say the internet is the anti-hero (but > that's just for this early a.m. > with little sleep cause I'm just a stupid human being...most obviously) > > Thank you, > Bobbi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ANTHONY M. LUDOVICI. London, February 1909. Project Gutenberg Etext of > Thus > Spake Zarathustra by Friedrich Nietzsche > > Bobbi, > > I think that Nietzsche is one of our greatest thinkers. Finally revalued > by > Derrida hopefully new readings will be carried out. > I am excerpting from an assignment I recently wrote. If I agree with you, > i= > t > was not easy for Nietzsche to live up to his thought. > > > Nietzsche was born in 1844 in a small village in Prussian Saxony. "He was > the son and grandson (on both sides of the family) of Lutheran ministers." > [1] He was influenced by Arthur > Schopenhauer's anti-academic, ascetic, misogynist philosophy (1788-1860) > an= > d > by the Wagner couple, to reject them violently later in *Human too > human*together with the Christian religion (in Wagner's case, repelled > by his > increasing anti-Semitism[2] ). > > I sometimes see my hand with a certain diffidence because it seems to me > to > have in "my hand" humanity's destiny > > Friedrich Nietzsche, Letter to Gast, October 30, 1888; when he first > announced *Ecce Homo*. > > Time hasn't arrived for me yet, there are men who were born posthumous. > > Friedrich Nietzsche, *Ecce Homo*. > > In the meantime I start becoming famous in an unprecedented way. I believe > that never has a mortal being received letters as the ones I am receiving, > and only by *refined* intelligences. > > Friedrich Nietzsche, Letter to Meta von Salis, December 29, > 1888.[3] > > Lou Andreas-Salom=E9 wrote in the spring 1882: > > After I had gone back to Stibbe for the fall, we met again in October and > for three weeks with Nietzsche in Leipzig. Neither of us thought that it > would be the last time. Anyhow it was not as in the beginning, even if our > wish of a common future with the three of us was still standing. [=85] Not > only: Paul R=E9e kept hidden from me how such malicious tongues had > irritat= > ed > *his* family against me, up to hate, even if in this case his mother's > tendency to a pathological jealousy played a great part, she wanted to > keep > her son all and only for herself.[4] > > Paul Lanzky wrote in 1886: > > It was from 1882 that he started with the most dangerous substance, a > palliative that brings to oblivion, and only with brief intervals, > chloral: > he ingested it to be able to overcome, besides his moral, physical > sufferance.[5] > > It becomes evident at this point that Nietzsche was a victim of his times, > his family, the overall oppressive mentality, and later by the German > National Socialism translated into the SS and the extermination of the > Jews= > . > Up to the point that he is still misunderstood by some uneducated > feminists > and extremist tough fringes that ignorantly at best deal with his words. > > ----------------------------- > > [1] *The Norton Anthology of > Theory > and Criticism,* page 870. > > [2] *The Norton Anthology of > Theory > and Criticism, *page 870 > > [3] The three quotations are taken > from: *Nietzsche: nei ricordi e nelle testimonianze dei contemporanei, > *cur= > ated > by Claudio Pozzoli, Bur, 1990. All translations are mine. > > [4] *Nietzsche: nei ricordi e > nelle > testimonianze dei contemporanei, *curated by Claudio Pozzoli, Bur, 1990, > pages 289, 290. The translation is mine. > > [5] *Nietzsche: nei ricordi e > nelle > testimonianze dei contemporanei, *curated by Claudio Pozzoli, Bur, 1990, > page 342. The translation is mine. > > > > Best, > > > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3Dpoetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > > > > > On Dec 11, 2007 3:16 PM, Bobbie Lurie wrote: > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Anny, > > Your mentioning Nietzsche gives me an opportunity to share small portion > > of book by Robert Kelly and Birgit > > Kempker titled "Shame" which I highly recommend."...Nietzsche is ashamed > > of the world but not about > > his own self....Nietzsche is ashamed of his mother and his father, his > > mother Mary and his father Jesus, > > his opa Joachim and his oma Anna, Hannah, the grace of G-d. He is > ashamed > > of God's grace, his father's > > money, he is ashamed of the Greek language but not of his own mastery of > > it. He is ashamed of everything > > but himself and his desires and his will to sing. Flamme bin ich, he > says > > famously, I am a flame and all > > I can do is burn, and I do give light while I burn, and you will bask in > > my light and warmth, and when I > > am finished you'll find that I have burned up the whole world. Your > world= > . > > Not mine. I am ashamed of my > > world and turn my back on it." > > Bobbi > > > > Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 07:36:15 +0100 > > From: Anny Ballardini > > Subject: Re: anti-heroes > > > > The hero of the hero and anti-hero dichotomy is Nietzsche, if read with > > some > > attention he is simple, it depends again on the students' will to > approac= > h > > him. > > Great choice the one of Mr. Ripley! I just watched the movie which is > > quite > > exceptional, by Minghella, script co-written with Highsmith. Otherwise: > > Cormac McCarthy: Suttree and The Road. > > > > On Dec 10, 2007 12:09 AM, Mary Kasimor wrote: > > > > > Charles, > > > Nor am I. I think that anti-hero can be defined in different ways. > > Clint > > > Eastwood's movies are a good example. Roberto Bolano's Savage > Detective= > s > > is > > > a wonderful example, but it is very very long. (Very few of my > students > > are > > > readers. (sigh). > > > Mary > > > > > > Charles Alexander wrote: > > > Notes from Underground, Dostoevsky, for a terrific example of anti- > > > hero. Influential, I think, on practically everything of anti-hero > > > since. And for a more "pop" approach, the Clint Eastwood Italian > > > westerns, i.e. A Fistful of Dollars, For a Few Dollars More, & The > > > Good, The Bad, & The Ugly. I am not up on critical works on the > > > notion of the "anti-hero." > > > > > > charles > > > > > > > > > charles alexander > > > chax press > > > chax@theriver.com > > > 650 e. ninth st. > > > tucson arizona 8505 > > > 520 620 1626 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Dec 9, 2007, at 7:52 AM, Mary Kasimor wrote: > > > > > > > I am thinking of teaching a freshman compostion class with a "hero > > > > and anti-hero" theme. Most of my students are not great readers, so > > > > it can't be a philosophical tome (although who knows? I may be > > > > surprised.) Does anyone have any good ideas for a book about or on > > > > "anti-hero" > > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > > Mary Kasimor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - > http://webmail.aol.com > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:13:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William James Austin Subject: Blackbox open for submissions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello everyone, Blackbox' Fall Gallery is currently open for submissions.? Please be certain to follow the guidelines on the Blackbox page which may be found at WilliamJamesAustin.com/Blackbox.html.? Per the guidelines, all submissions must be sent to Blackboxwja@aol.com. The submission period will remain open for approximately two weeks.? As always, I thank everyone for their continued support of my little project, and look forward to reading your work. Best, Bill (William James Austin) ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 19:15:39 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nate Pritts Subject: *shrug* MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My new chapbook, SHRUG, is NOT out now! But I'm pretty ambivalent about it= anyway. =20 * =20 Get it? "Shrug." "Ambivalent." =20 * =20 It is, however, available for pre-order here --> =20 http://www.mainstreetrag.com/store/ComingSoon.php http://www.mainstreetrag.com/NPritts.html =20 I'm here all week, Nate ___________Nate Prittshttp://www.h-ngm-n.com/nate-pritts/ _________________________________________________________________ Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=3DTXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_1220= 07= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 15:13:10 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: NYC/Boog City's NYC Small Presses Night, Tues. Dec. 18 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable please forward ---------------- Boog City presents d.a. levy lives: celebrating the renegade press New York City Small Presses Night with Belladonna Books, Cuneiform Press, Cy Gist Press, Futurepoem Books, Kitchen Press, and Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs Tues. Dec. 18, 6:00 p.m. sharp, free ACA Galleries 529 W.20th St., 5th Flr. NYC This is the one event each season in our non-NYC small press series =20 where we honor NYC small presses. Featuring readings by poets from six of the city's finest small presses: **Belladonna Books --Latasha N. Nevada Diggs --R. Erica Doyle **Cuneiform Press --Bill Berkson --Ted Greenwald **Cy Gist Press --Mark Lamoureux **Futurepoem Books --Jill Magi --Shanxing Wang **Kitchen Press --Erin Burke **Portable Press @ Yo-Yo Labs --Tonya Foster --Julie Patton --Nathaniel Siegel as well as publications available from each of the presses. There will be wine, cheese, and crackers, too. Curated and with an introduction by Boog City editor David Kirschenbaum -- Boog City 46, our New York City Small Presses Issue, published in =20 conjunction with the above event, features pages put together by the =20 above six presses. To read the pdf version, and see work from 17 =20 poets, go to: http://welcometoboogcity.com/boogpdfs/bc46.pdf For more information on the various presses: http://belladonnabooks.blogspot.com/ http://www.cuneiformpress.com/ http://www.cygistpress.com/ http://www.futurepoem.com/ http://www.kitchen-press-book-store.blogspot.com/ http://yoyolabs.com/ ---- Directions: C/E to 23rd St., 1/9 to 18th St. Venue is bet. 10th and 11th avenues Next event: Tues. Jan. 29, 2008, Instance Press -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://www.welcometoboogcity.com T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 13:54:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: more on Haynes/"I'm Not There" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i met will alexander at the pen awards in oakland he is hanging in there and will come to ny in spring to read at po project after his treatment if all goes well On Wed, 5 Dec 2007 14:20:01 -0800 Andy Gricevich writes: > Well, this discussion is certainly less important than > Will Alexander's illness or the idiotic idea that the > U.S. interventions in the Middle East (which involve > habitual placings of pro-democratic Muslim feminists > on terrorist blacklists) do anything to help women > anywhere--but here goes, anyway. > > I think Aldon's probably right in saying that the film > would be better if you didn't know Dylan was a real > person--or at least the reasons I think the film is > genuinely good have little to do with his existence > (though I admit that, as a fan, the Dylanisms are fun > for me). > > At the very least, the question "what is/could/should > be the relation of art to politics" comes up over and > over in the film--a question I don't think films with > this kind of distribution tend to ask, and--in > fact--one which is even met with derisive dismissals > in the worlds of avant-garde poetry and music. Some > possible answers are offered, none settled upon. I see > Dylan's own dismissals of the issue in the mid-60's as > a strategic "leave me alone" gesture, and I kind of > think he's right (though a jerk... though at times a > very funny jerk): why should anyone demand answers > from a pop star? > > In any case, the film doesn't take Dylan's answer as > its own; nor does it show it as one that benefited him > as an artist. After all, the chronologically latest > performance we see by one of the Dylans is the one of > Christian Bale singing the truly dreadful "Pressing > On" in that depressing Southern California born-again > church (Eric, that's the church I meant in an earlier > post). And near the end the "Arthur Rimbaud" > character, in his list of "principles for living in > hiding," advises the aspiring quietist to "never > create anything" (if you know about Rimbaud, you know > about his unsavory colonialist job after his > withdrawal from aesthetic and political engagement). I > don't think the film takes the stance of many critics, > who consider Dylan eternally brilliant (or am I just > "reading into it," as someone who thinks that "Modern > Times" is largely dull, sexist, formulaic, and > occasionally pretty good, but by no means a work of > "genius"?). > > I think the film offers some possibilities for the > expansion of scale in art--how much of the world can > it include, and how? (Or, better--and differently--how > can one make the work open onto the world in new, more > generous ways, vulnerable to its answering back to the > work?) > > Haynes sets up his multiple narratives so that they > suggest perspectives on each other. References to the > world "going on outside the film" are often small, > casual, dropped and left in scenes--or big and loud, > but in the background (the war on TV, with its > televised nature emphasized, or LBJ's face quoting > Dylan while the artist himself blathers belligerently > in the foreground). They don't get picked up > explicitly, but work as hints for the viewing of other > narratives, or other parts of the same narrative. > > Haynes' study of semiotics is evident in the way the > categories of character and time relate to one > another. By the last third of the film, the various > "Dylans" have diverged from one another in character, > mode of presentation, and comparative distance from > the "real" biography to a great extent, seeming less > and less like portraits of the various "sides" of one > person, taking on an independence (the film is very > sneaky in the way it gradually becomes quite strange > and disorienting). Accompanying this increasing > divergence is an increasing frequency of "shared > memories" between the characters; in one of my > favorites, Gere's Billy the Kid (the farthest from a > possibly actual Dylan), gazing at the Missouri > mountains, has a flashback to the Vietnam war--but > it's the war on TV, as seen in the Heath Ledger (the > actor character whose career was founded on a > portrayal of the early '60s "Dylan") sections. When we > switch back to the hills, what was a gorgeous, > naturalistically filmed shot is now on video, > "infected" by the TV. This is, of course, a > psychological representation of the after-effects of > the memory on the present. But it's also a memory of a > past (the time of the marriage) into which the outside > (the war) was leaking constantly, even as the central > character tried to avoid acknowledging it--shown as > utterly tied up with neglect of the love affair and > friendship. And it's a leaking-in of the film > manipulations that characterize the Christian Bale and > Heath Ledger sequences (and the variation in technique > between all the stories) into the spectacular > naturalism of the Billy the Kid world (which was > untouched when it first appeared in the literal > kid-world of Marcus Carl Franklin's "Woody"). > > Narratively, this particular constellation of examples > sets up the incursion (leak) of the interstate system > into the town of Riddle, and Billy's decision to speak > up about it. As part of an accumulation of various > such moves, it has a more wide-ranging formal effect: > the stories become porous with regard to one another, > and that porosity eventually reaches a threshold after > which, for me at least, they open not only onto one > another, but onto the outsides of the film. > > By the "Billy the Kid" section, I find myself unable > to view the movie without constant reference to social > and political contexts outside the film. The section > is set in an ambiguous time: lines from other scenes > contextualize it as the late 19th century (Billy in > hiding), or as any time between 1966 and the present > (Dylan in hiding). The scene itself looks like the Old > West, but the interstate highway system is being > constructed, and its planners show up in old cars that > were new in the 1970s. The anachronisms throw me > outside the narrative, where I'm prepared to go > already because of the porosity I just described. So, > when Billy is put in jail for speaking out (nervously, > as an "ordinary guy," not as the famous outlaw) > against the interstate plan that will destroy the > town, I can't help but think, "oh, criminalization of > speech, the possibility of arbitrary arrest in the > face of profit-driven enterprise in a time of war. > That sounds kind of familiar." That Billy is the least > identifiable as Dylan, both as a character and as > someone who sticks his neck out at risk of his life, > contributes to a close to the film that belies the > view of it as a tribute. > > None of the individual techniques are new (diverging > narrative possibilities, contradictory > characterizations (though Haynes gets more from Genet > here than anyone else, which I appreciate), film > manipulations). So why do I care about the way they're > deployed as a whole? > > As a poet, I've been trying to think of what can be > done to further open a work to as much of the world as > possible (specifically, for me, as regards political > content). I see a history of ways of answering this > question that includes Dante, the 19th century novel > (particularly Russian), Pound and Joyce as earlier > exemplars. If "taking it all in" and "opening up to > it" are alternatives, I'd put all these folks in the > former camp. For Pound, it's done by juxtaposition, > variation of materials and the variation of the rate > of that variation, the making of an unstable > archive--what I'll call the "hodgepodge." Joyce, at > least in "Ulysses," takes a "layering" approach > instead, where each event has strata of symbolic and > historical meaning underneath (poking through > sometimes), or floating above it. When we get to > writing like Ron Silliman's book-length poems, > there's, I'd argue, a more equal emphasis on "taking > in" and "opening out." The inclusion of as much as > possible by parataxis is performed via formal means > that, with extended immersion in the work, foreground > the reader's own process of making connections, > synthesizing disparate phenomena into daily, > more-or-less unified experience. The effect of reading > it (at least on me) is one of a residual dehabituating > of perception, letting a lot more in, noting a greater > variety of connections. > > What all these works have in common is the fact that, > in them, the process of an increase in capacity > requires a "gesture of expansion," an explicit > widening of scope that has to last for as long as the > capacity remains that large. This gesture might be the > increasing number of sentences via the Fibonacci > sequence, or the intrusion of a language alien to a > main story, or a chapter in a novel that takes a > panoramic view of a society. > > I think these are all marvelous, and have their limits > (in the novel, for instance, the "big picture" recedes > into the background once the narrative returns to the > story of the individualized characters; in Silliman, > the scale remains larger, but is still contained > within the limits of a linguistically modeled > "consciousness"). Put very formalistically, what "I'm > Not There" offers is a mode in which a tenuous whole > opens onto the world as an effect of the way the > individual, coherent continuities that make it up > change one another's scale of reference by making > gestures that are "gestures of expansion" not within > themselves, but when seen from the perspective of the > others. A small event in one continuity has an > "expanding" effect on another continuity. > > I don't see the film as an end-point. I'd like to see > more explicitly political movies that extend these > possibilities. And I want to find a way of writing > political poetry that works with juxtaposition on the > micro-level while also employing larger blocks, > continuities whose own juxtaposition is fruitful due > to their "leaks." Haynes' movie (which in a lot of > other ways isn't as good as, say, "Safe") gives me a > lot to think about in this regard. > > Sorry this was so long. I'll reply directly to David's > reply to me in another post. > > Oh, and Steve--you're right, "one of the best films > I've ever seen" is a mouthful, from my big mouth. But > since you asked what my favorites are, and since lists > > are fun to make, here are some off the top of my head: > > Safe & Poison (Todd Haynes) > Medea, Salo, Teorema (Pasolini) > In A Year With 13 Moons, Effe Briest (Fassbinder) > Kristina Talking Pictures, Journeys From Berlin > (Yvonne Rainer) > Week-end, Forever Mozart, Numero Deux (Godard) > The Wife (Tom Noonan) > My Dinner With Andre, Vanya on 42nd St (Louis Malle) > Ginger and Fred (Fellini) > The Lady From Shanghai (Welles) > City Lights (Chaplin) > various films by Moshen Mahkmalbaf (sp) > recently, Paul Chan's "baghdad in no particular order" > The Muppet Movie > and, though they belong in an entirely different > category, Brakhage's "Cannot Exist," "Cannot Not > Exist," and the Dante films > > cheers, > > Andy > > > > > _________________________________________________________________________ ___________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 16:25:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: 20th century long poems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hey i wrote a 16 pager does that count? On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:53:50 -0500 ric carfagna writes: > meIEKAL, > > The beauty of a long piece is that it is always revealing new ways > of > interpreting itself over time to the reader. To immerse oneself in > the > intricacies, depth and complexity of a long work is one of the > distinctions poetry offers. That is what draws me to the form of > the > long poem and all its diverse manifestations, from structured > pieces > like Merrill's Changing light to the more free-flowing works of > Asberry > and Ammonns,Olson, etc . > My interest in the long poem is one of aesthetics, continuity and > of > course its history and evolution. The way I approach reading a long > poem > is not all at once, but it is rather a systematic study over time of > its > form, content and overall impression. The concentrated aspects of > poetry's nature is what I believe brings about the myriad ways to > approach, interpret and dissect its essence. > > > I find your Congeries an intriguing work. The heterogeneity one > experiences when first approaching it is to me > a jumping off point into unknown semantic wilderness. This is just > the > point I was trying to make in my above statement. This work indeed > promises the complexities and rewards which makes the whole nature > of > poetry a worthwhile art form in which to immerse oneself. You've > succeeded in showing this with the examples you present on your > site, > albeit static or not. I look forward to someday seeing & obtaining > a > complete copy. Do you find 'conventional' (read paper copy) > publishers > positive and accepting of your work? Historically, works of this > nature > has a notoriously checkered past, and it's only the passage of time > which proves to be the measure with which they are weighed and find > favor. Also, has someone done an interview with you regarding the > work, > or are there any essays floating around wherein I can glean some > info > into it's method of construction,extent etc? I think a work of this > diversity and complexity deserves to be studied and expounded in > depth. > > > As far as my own composing of a long poem, well I'm not shooting for > any > record books and I don't shout it from rooftops. I'm rather low-key > about soliciting my work these days. When all's said and done (and > written) it should shake out to be 800 plus pages, or thereabouts. > I > just recently finished a 350 page installment of it which I will be > sending out for potential publication next month. If it gets > selected > that'll be great, but I understand publishers apprehension these > days > about taking on new, experimentalish work. To me it's just the > satisfaction of actually completing something. Whether it's > historically > accepted and > actually read by others or not is a moot point. I guess we all have > an > impression of how someone else should interpret our work, how we > hope > they appreciate all the nuances and poignancies that went into its > composition. But then again that would be in a perfect world, and > we > know that that's not the case. But I'm positive about it (the world > that > is) just the same!!! > > Be Well, > Ric > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "mIEKAL aND" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 4:24 PM > Subject: Re: 20th century long poems > > > > RIC > > > > I'd love to see this list consider any one of these poems in > depth. Long > > poems in general have been ignored spurned neglected for far too > long. > > As time moves forward it seems the attention span grows shorter, > even > > physically having the time to read 800 pages is an improbability > for most > > people. Also I think the internet & hypertext has had a profound > effect > > on how larger bodies of information are organized & accessed. > I've been > > working for a number of years trying to come up with an online > portal for > > my long poem but to date I haven't come up with an interface that > would > > allow the reader to navigate intuitively thru the work. Maybe > when I can > > add a bit of AI to to the interface that would query a person's > tastes > > and interests (or read from their facebook profile :) & then, > knowing a > > person's interests, would affect what is presented on the > screen. > > > > About a third of my long poem SAMSARA CONGERIES is online here in > a > > static format > > > > http://xexoxial.org/samsara_congeries/?q=book > > > > & hopefully I'll have a final typescript of the poem (which I > started in > > 1978) finished in the next month. It, by the way, runs somewhere > over > > 800 pages but I'd like design it in such a way that it could be > around > > 500 pages. Finding a publisher for it will be harder than > writing it. > > > > What I really wonder, Ric, is why the question in the first > place? What > > does knowing the number of pages of a long poem really tell us > about the > > long poem itself. Perhaps yr plotting a new entry in the Guiness > World > > Book of Records? > > > > Now how long is your long poem? > > > > ~mIEKAL > > > > > > > > On Dec 10, 2007, at 9:24 PM, ric carfagna wrote: > > > >> Although it is not the longest, the unjustly neglected Tahl by > Jeremy > >> Ingalls weighs in at 621 pages. Let's start our discussion with > that one > >> mIEKAL! > >> > >> I also notice that Steve mentioned Jones' In Parenthesis; he also > wrote > >> The > >> Anathemata > >> as well as the unfinished Roman Quarry which if he had lived to > complete > >> it > >> would have been longer that both his previously mentioned works. > >> > >> By the way, how long is Peter Ganick's Splintered?? > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "mIEKAL aND" > >> To: > >> Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 8:12 PM > >> Subject: Re: 20th century long poems > >> > >> > >>> If only we spent this time having real discussions about these > titles > >>> ... > >>> > >> > > > > 24/7 PROTOMEDIA BREEDING GROUND > > > > JOGLARS CROSSMEDIA BROADCAST > > (collaborative text & media) > > http://www.joglars.org > > > > SPIDERTANGLE > > International Network of VisPoets > > http://www.spidertangle.net > > > > XEXOXIAL EDITIONS > > Appropriate Scale Publishing since 1980 > > http://www.xexoxial.org > > > > INTERNALATIONAL DICTIONARY OF NEOLOGISMS > > research | reference | ongoing collection > > http://www.neologisms.us > > > > Dreamtime Village > > Hypermedia Permaculture EcoVillage in Southwest Wisconsin > > http://www.dreamtimevillage.org > > > > "The word is the first stereotype." Isidore Isou, 1947. > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 17:40:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Heat Strings Blog MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Recently on the Heat Strings Blog: Photos from the Modernist Studies Association Niels Hav Jay Wright Report from the African American Studies Association / 40th anniversary celebration of the African American Review <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We are enslaved by what makes us free -- intolerable paradox at the heart of speech. --Robert Kelly Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 18:19:11 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Crockett Subject: reissue of Listenlight 13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Brenda Iijima - Katrinka Moore - Tammy Ho Lai-Ming - Matina Stamatakis - Jenna Cardinale http://listenlight.net -- reaches technical perfection in compliant (or otherwise friendly) browsers; to my knowledge: Firefox 2, Konqueror, Safari, Opera, Camino. -- tho the anti-social IE 7 / 6 / 5.5 browsers yet need some coddling for a few non-essential features Cheers -- Jess Crockett p.s. find the good guys and gals here: http://www.mozilla.org. they make a whole lot more than firefox, and they will never stop. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 19:30:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetry Project Subject: Events at the Poetry Project December In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Hi everyone, We have an excellent reading planned for Monday. Then we relax. Then we hav= e the New Year=B9s Day Marathon Reading. Your friend, The Poetry Project Monday, December 17, 8 PM Carol Mirakove & Maged Zaher Carol Mirakove is the author of Mediated (Factory School), Occupied (Kelsey St. Press), and, with Jen Benka, 1,138 (Belladonna Books). This year in working with The Collective Task she is producing a myth called Love Kills Hate. Maged Zaher was born and raised in Cairo, Egypt and came to the U.S. to pursue a graduate degree in Engineering. His English poems have appeared in magazines such as Columbia Poetry Review, Exquisite Corpse, Jacket, New American Writing, Tinfish, and others. His year and half collaboration with the Australian poet Pam Brown was published as a chapbook called farout library software from Tinfish press. He translates contemporary Egyptian poetry, and lives in Seattle. Tuesday, January 1, 2 PM The 34th Annual New Year's Day Marathon Reading Ring in the new year with: Philip Glass, Eric Bogosian, Ernie Brooks, Open Music Ensemble, Brenda Coultas, John Godfrey, Patti Smith, Jordan Davis, David Henderson, Frank Sherlock, Rich O'Russa, David Mills, Jenny Smith, Johanna Fuhrman, Erica Doyle, Dan Machlin, Cat Tyc, Jessica Rogers, Renato Rosaldo, Stefania Iryne Marthakis, Rodrigo Toscano, Yoshiko Chuma, Elinor Nauen, Frances Richard, Phyllis Wat, Ed Friedman, Christina Strong, Stephanie Gray, Evan Kennedy, Lydia Cortes, Kim Rosenfield, Azareen Van Der Vliet Oloomi, Shanxing Wang, Lauren Russell, Marcella Durand, Marc Nasdor, Brendan Lorber, Alan Davies, Stephen Motika, Bob Rosenthal, Susie Timmons, Eliot Katz, Maggie Dubris, Peter Lucas Erixon, Eve Packer, Chris Stackhouse= , David Kirschenbaum, Bill Kushner, Tom Savage, Rob Fitterman, Cliff Fyman, Tara Betts, Jennifer Coleman, Allison Cobb, Jill Magi, Gillian McCain, Emil= y XYZ, Todd Colby, Elliott Sharp, Paolo Javier, Eileen Myles, John Giorno, Steve Earle, Donna Brook, Bob Hershon, Jen Benka, Carol Mirakove, I Feel Tractor, Lenny Kaye, Anne Tardos, Sharon Mesmer, Greg Fuchs, Douglas Dunn, Wayne Koestenbaum, Renato Gomez, Rebecca Moore, Michael Cirelli, Joe Eliot, Tracey McTague, Jess Fiorini, Murat Nemet-Nejat, Vincent Katz, Merry Fortune, David Vogen, Geoffrey Cruickshank-Hagenbuckle, Jackie Sheeler, Penny Arcade, Michael Lydon, Filip Marinovic, Yuko Otomo, Steve Dalachinsky= , Adeena Karasick, Barbara Henning, Tisa Bryant, Bruce Andrews, Sally Silvers= , Corrine Fitzpatrick, Arlo Quint, Stacy Szymaszek, C.A. Conrad, Keith Roach, Daniel Higgs, John S. Hall, Maggie Estep, Michael Scharf, Wanda Phipps, Leonard Schwartz, Miles Champion, Citizen Reno, Jaime Manrique, Dael Orlandersmith, Uche Nduka, Laura Jaramillo, Nathaniel Siegel, Jim Behrle, Anselm Berrigan, Dustin Williamson, Macgregor Card, John Coletti, Amelia Jackie, Simone White, Hal Sirowitz, Peter Bushyeager, Guillermo Castro, Simon Pettet, Max Winter, Tonya Foster, Judith Malina, Hanon Reznikov, Ted Greenwald, Patricia Spears Jones, Avram Fefer, Taylor Mead, Lee Ann Brown, Deniz=E9 Lauture, Thom Donovan, Frankin Bruno, Drew Gardner, Kyle Schlesinger= , Don Yorty, Kimberly Lyons, Katie Degentesh, Tracie Morris, Val Jeanty, Chri= s Rael, Daniel Higgs, Sparrow/Foamola, Ben Malkin, M=F3nica de la Torre, Emil Bognar-Nasdor, Bob Holman, Janet Hamill, E. Tracy Grinnell, Katie Degentesh= , Nada Gordan, John S. Hall and Harris Schiff. General Admission $16 / Students & Seniors $12 / Members $10 Become a Poetry Project Member! http://poetryproject.com/membership.php Fall Calendar: http://www.poetryproject.com/calendar.php The Poetry Project is located at St. Mark's Church-in-the-Bowery 131 East 10th Street at Second Avenue New York City 10003 Trains: 6, F, N, R, and L. info@poetryproject.com www.poetryproject.com Admission is $8, $7 for students/seniors and $5 for members (though now those who take out a membership at $85 or higher will get in FREE to all regular readings). We are wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. For more info call 212-674-0910. If you=B9d like to be unsubscribed from this mailing list, please drop a line at info@poetryproject.com. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:23:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: purple quadrant defuge6 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed defuge6 (text without image) The stem of the 6 leans forward, ready to topple. The stem of the 6 is retained by the entire and complete calculus of capital. The calculus of capital is thick, exhausted, is always exhausted, is always singular, singularity, always the point and paste of the thing. The calculus is in opposition to glue holding disparate parts together _as such._ The calculus of capital knows only the unary divide. And the unary addition and the unary increment and substitution. And the unary substitution. In my weary world the head bobs uselessly. It looks in the thick of things for clock and radio. It pulls the sheets up and pulls the sheets down. It wraps and unwraps the cadaver of the body. Beware the thud of 6 and thud of capital. What is ready to topple sooner or later topples, sooner or later revives into disparate parts. (What is ready to topple has the consistency of glue.) Cuadrante morado - abierto ropon (((purple quadrant - open gown) from Frida Kahlo, Diary)) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:26:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: quadrant purple defuge6 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed (inappropriate image http://www.alansondheim.org/.pri/defuge6.mov removed from text) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 19:36:43 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: UbuWeb Subject: UbuWeb - New Additions :: Late Fall 2007 Comments: To: "andrew@anthologyfilmarchives.org" , "anne@thewire.co.uk" , "AudioFix@egroups.com" , "bluesea@dragcity.com" , "charles.bernstein@english.upenn.edu" , "clgould@pobox.upenn.edu" , "dk@exactchange.com" , "editor@thewire.co.uk" , "francismckee@glype.demon.co.uk" , "ischaff@pobox.upenn.edu" , "lina@electra-productions.com" , "lowercase-sound@yahoogroups.com" , "mcoffey@reedbusiness.com" , "mperloff@earthlink.net" , "mscharf@reedbusiness.com" , "rumori@detritus.net" , "silence@Virginia.edu" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit __ U B U W E B __ http://ubu.com ---------------------------- UBUWEB :: Late Fall 2007 ---------------------------- --- NEW ADDITIONS --- Ronald Nameth - Andy Warhol's Exploding Plastic Inevitable with The Velvet Underground (1966) http://www.ubu.com/film/nameth_velvet.html Hans Arp - Soundworks (1913-1961) http://www.ubu.com/sound/arp.html Doron Golan - Four Films (2007) http://www.ubu.com/film/golan.html Alvin Lucier - The Only Talking Machine of its Kind in the World (1969) http://www.ubu.com/sound/lucier_talking.html Tony Oursler - Sucker (1987) http://www.ubu.com/film/oursler_sucker.html René Viénet - Chinois, encore un effort pour être révolutionnaires a.k.a. "Peking Duck Soup" (1977) http://www.ubu.com/film/vienet_chinois.html Dan Graham - Rock My Religion (1982-84) http://www.ubu.com/film/graham_rock.html Harun Farocki - Schnittstelle / interface (1995) http://www.ubu.com/film/farocki_sch.html Survival Research Laboratories - A Plan for Social Improvement (1988) http://www.ubu.com/film/srl_social.html René Clair - BBC Documentary http://www.ubu.com/film/clair_bbc.html The Kitchen Presents Two Moon July (1986): Laurie Anderson, Philip Glass, Dara Birnbaum, David Byrne and others http://www.ubu.com/film/kitchen.html Kenny G Meets John Zorn - Kenneth Goldsmith & Jonathan Zorn (2007) http://www.ubu.com/sound/kg-jz.html Jonathan Zorn - All Talk (2003-2005) http://www.ubu.com/sound/zorn.html François Girard - Le Train (1985) http://www.ubu.com/film/girard_train.html Mona Hatoum - Measures of Distance (1988) http://www.ubu.com/film/hatoum_measures.html Sara Sackner - Concrete! (2006), A documentary about the Sackner Archive for Visual and Concrete Poetry http://www.ubu.com/film/sackner_concrete.html Kenneth Goldsmith Sucking on Words - documentary (2007) http://www.ubu.com/film/goldsmith_sucking.html Glenn Gould - Karlheinz Klopweisser Promo for CBC http://www.ubu.com/film/gould_karlheinz.html David Van Tieghem - Ear To Ground (1979) http://www.ubu.com/film/vantieghem_ear.html Maurice Lemaître - Le film est déjà commencé?, (1951) http://www.ubu.com/film/lemaitre_film.html Peter Campus - Three Transitions (1973) http://www.ubu.com/film/campus_three.html Survival Research Laboratories - Virtues of Negative Fascination (1985-86) http://www.ubu.com/film/srl_virtues.html Stephen Dwoskin - Dirty (1966) - Music by Gavin Bryars http://www.ubu.com/film/dwoskin_dirty.html György Ligeti: Portrait, A Documentary by Michel Follin (1993) [French language] http://www.ubu.com/film/ligeti_follin.html Arthur Lipsett 21-87 (1963), A Trip Down Memory Lane (1965) & Fluxes (1968) http://www.ubu.com/film/lipsett.html Ken Jacobs - Blonde Cobra (1963) & Little Stabs at Happiness (1960) http://www.ubu.com/film/jacobs.html Nobuhiko Obayashi - Experimental Films (1960-68) http://www.ubu.com/film/obayashi.html Maja Ratkje - Live in Paris, 2005 (video) http://www.ubu.com/film/ratjke_paris_2005.html William S. Burroughs - French Television Interview (1990) http://www.ubu.com/film/burroughs_french.html Hy Hirsch - Come Closer (1952) http://www.ubu.com/film/hirsch_come_closer.html Cheryl Donegan - Refuses (2007) http://www.ubu.com/film/donegan_refuses.html Jean Rouch - Cimetieres dans la falaise (1951) & Les Maitres fous (1955) http://www.ubu.com/film/rouch.html Carpi Cioni - Three Short Films (1960-1962) http://www.ubu.com/film/carpi_three_short.html Alexander Hammid - Bezucelna Prochazka (Aimless Walk, 1930) & Na Prazskem Hrade (At Prague Castle, 1932) http://www.ubu.com/film/hammid.html Shuji Terayama & Shuntaro Tanikawa - Video Letters (1982-83) http://www.ubu.com/film/terayama_video-letter.html Sidney Peterson - The Lead Shoes (1949) http://www.ubu.com/film/peterson.html Nicole Dextras - Frozen Words (2007) http://www.ubu.com/contemp/dextras/index.html Lance Wakeling SIC, NOTES FRMDELOM A KEYLOGGER (2006/2007) http://www.ubu.com/contemp/wakeling/index.html Joseph Nechvatal viral symphOny (MP3) http://www.ubu.com/sound/nechvatal.html Andy Warhol Warhol's Cinema: A Mirror for the Sixties (1989) http://www.ubu.com/film/warhol.html J.G. Ballard - Shanghai Jim (1991) http://www.ubu.com/film/ballard.html Taj Mahal - Travellers On Tour 1973 (16mm film) http://www.ubu.com/film/taj.html Robert Kramer - Ice (1969) http://www.ubu.com/film/kramer.html Kay Rosen - Sisyphis, 1991 (video); Interview, 2007 (video & MP3) http://www.ubu.com/film/rosen.html Peter Weiss - Was machen wir jetzt (1958) http://www.ubu.com/film/weiss.html Contemporary Chinese Experimental Music 1997-2007 (MP3) http://www.ubu.com/sound/china.html Alec Finlay: Assorted Visual Poems and Bookworks http://www.ubu.com/contemp/finlay/index.html --- RECENT FEATURES --- All Avant-Garde All The Time - UbuWeb Podcast #2: Produced by The Poetry Foundation, UbuWeb is pleased to announce the second in its podcast series, focusing on Ubu's hidden treasures. As the site has grown so large, these occasional audio guides might shed some light on things you may have overlooked, forgotten about or simply never knew about. This podcast explores the mass of recordings by Giorno Poetry Systems (aka The Dial-A-Poem Poets), a series of double LPs put out back in the 70s featuring artists such as Patti Smith, Laurie Anderson, Philip Glass, Meredith Monk, John Cage, Richard Hell, Frank O'Hara and hundreds of others. [listen] UbuWeb's first podcast, a general introduction to the site and to sound poetry, can be found here. You can subscribe to our podcast here. The next one, focusing on the audio archives of Aspen Magazine, will be ready in mid-January. http://poetryfoundation.org/audio/John%20Giorno%20Poetry%20Systems.mp3 Komar & Melamid "The People's Choice Music" (1997) With the collaboration of composer Dave Soldier, Komar & Melamid's Most Wanted Painting project was extended into the realm of music. A poll, written by Dave Soldier, was conducted on The Dia Foundation's web site in Spring 1996. Approximately 500 visitors took the survey. Solder used the survey results to write music and lyrics for the Most Wanted and Most Unwanted songs. http://www.ubu.com/sound/komar.html Four Films by Gordon Matta-Clark: Includes Tree Dance (1971), Fresh Kill (1972), Day's End (1975) and Office Baroque (1977). Gordon Matta-Clark's (1943-1978) artistic project was a radical investigation of architecture, deconstruction, space, and urban environments. Dating from 1971 to 1977, his most prolific and vital period, his film and video works include documents of major pieces in New York, Paris and Antwerp, and are focused on three areas: performances and recycling pieces; space and texture works; and his building cuts. http://www.ubu.com/film/gmc.html Audio Selections from The Sackner Archive: Hundreds of MP3s ripped from rare sound poetry LPs, tapes & 45 RPM vinyl. The Ruth & Mqrvin Sackner Archive of Visual & Concrete Poetry in Miami Beach is the world's largest collection of text-based art. Of the audio files here, curator Matthew Abess states: "The work presented here comprises a portion of the Sackner's tremendous compendium of sonic works. The range of geographic origins runs the circumference of the globe. The time span is nearly a century. It witnesses histories: of poetry, literature, music, visual art, technology, politics, religion, theoretical contentions and practical abstention." Artists include John Cage, Merzbow, Anton Bruhin, Laurie Anderson, Bob Cobbing, Lily Greenham, Velemir Chlebnikov, Aleksej Krucenych and Jean Jacques Lebel among dozens of others. UbuWeb is also pleased to feature a full-length documentary about the Sackner Archive, Concrete! directed by Sara Sackner. http://www.ubu.com/sound/sackner.html Five Films by Jonas Mekas Mekas, born 1922, is considered by many to be the godfather of American avant-garde cinema. Presented here are Happy Birthday to John (1972), a film record of John Lennon's 32nd birthday party; Zefiro Torna or Scenes from the Life of George Maciunas (1992), a video diary of Fluxus founder George Maciunas; and Scenes from Allen's Last Three Days on Earth as a Spirit (1997), a video diary of Ginsberg in the days immediately before and after his death. Also included is a short, Hare Krishna (1966), with a soundtrack by Ginsberg. http://www.ubu.com/film/mekas.html Make Perhaps This Out Sense Of Can You: Bob Cobbing (1920-2002) A celebration highlighting the works of Cobbing on UbuWeb: films, sounds, writings, interviews and critical writing about him [PDF]. As curator Matthew Abess writes, "Cobbing was an assiduous innovator in the sphere of language. Alternately a landscape gardener, farmer, steward's clerk at a hospital, and teacher of Esperanto, Cobbing fluidly traversed dissimilar vocations with the same dexterity apparent in his boundary-dissolving performances with and of the plasticity of the word. When asked about the development of his intermedia praxis, Cobbing remarked, 'I commenced as a painter; later wrote poetry; studied music; began to realize all three were one activity (together with dancing, which is, perhaps, the key to them all)." This UbuWeb resource is presented in conjunction with the exhibition of the same name at the University of Pennsylvania's Van Pelt Library, The Ruth & Marvin Sackner Archive of Visual and Concrete Poetry and the Kelly Writers House at UPenn, where Suddenly Everyone Began Reading Aloud, a tribute to Cobbing took place October 11th featuring the poets Charles Bernstein, chris cheek and Maggie O'Sullivan. http://www.ubu.com/film/cobbing.html Vision #4 - Word of Mouth (1980) Twelve artists from California, New York and Europe were each invited to prepare a twelve minute talk on any subject. Artists include: Tom Marioni, Robert Kushner, Marina Abramovic/Ulay, John Cage, Daniel Buren, Joan Jonas, Bryan Hunt, Chris Burden, William T. Wiley, Brice Marden, Pat Steir and Laurie Anderson. Originally a double LP. http://www.ubu.com/sound/vision.html Selections from FILM CULTURE Magazine (1955-1996) 24 seminal articles from FILM CULTURE, which served as a forum for the New American Cinema, discussing the works of pioneering filmmakers like Maya Deren, Ron Rice and Paul Sharits, and providing important context for largely unseen films through its essays on film history, contemporary art and poetry. Authors and subjects include Hollis Frampton, Luis Buñuel, Stan Brakhage, Tyler Parker, Donald Sutherland, Rudolf Arnheim, Taylor Mead and many others. Selected and edited by Kareem Estefan. Presented in partnership with Anthology Film Archives. http://www.ubu.com/papers/film_culture.html COLAB: All Color News Sampler (1978) & Colab Compilation (1980) Two rarely seen compilations from the New York-based Collaborative Projects (aka COLAB) formed in 1978. All News Color Sampler is a remarkable collection of clips from the feature news program for cable TV. Hard, gritty, this is the early political and socially oriented work by artists now well-known as sculptors and filmmakers. Potato Wolf, Colab Compilation was an artists' cable TV show produced by Collaborative Projects from approximately 1979-84. Artists include John Ahearn, Tom Otterness, Scott and Beth B, Kiki Smith, Peter Fend and many others. http://www.ubu.com/film/colab.html Mary Ellen Solt: An Appreciation & Flowers in Concrete Mary Ellen Solt (1920-2007) became known in academic and poetic circles worldwide after the publication in 1968 of her influential book Concrete Poetry-A World View. Included here is an appreciation by critic A.S. Bessa and the full cycle of her influential and beautiful concrete poems Flowers in Concrete (1966). http://www.ubu.com/historical/solt/solt_flowers.html Salvador Dali - Impressions de la Haute Mongolie - Hommage á Raymond Roussel (1974-1975) Salvador Dalí's romance with film and the visual arts is a relatively well-known chapter in the life of the original and controversial Spanish (Catalan) artist (1904-1989). However, his explorations of video art with the production of the "documentary" Impressions de la haute Mongolie. Hommage a Raymond Roussel (1974-75) remain an episode of his long and successful creative career only acknowledged by the specialist. The "videografía", narrates the exploration of Dalí to the remote land of Mongolia in search of the Great White Mushroom. Salvador Dalí, a consummate expert in media manipulation, invites the spectator to become his accomplice and partner in what it seems a drug-induced "trip" to a faraway and distant land where wonderful treasures are hidden. By means of advanced technology in film and the visual arts of the time (video, electronics, macro photography), Dalí strives to reveal optically the metamorphoses of matter with the purpose of revealing a new artistic reality. http://www.ubu.com/film/dali_impressions.html UbuWeb Radio Listen to a 24-hour continuous stream from UbuWeb's MP3 archives. All avant-garde, all the time. http://peacemaker.stat.wvu.edu:8000/listen.pls The 365 Days Project, Part 2 (2007) UbuWeb is pleased to be co-hosting and archiving the second installment of Otis Fodder's magnificent 365 Days Project. The first project was completed in 2003 and can be accessed here as well. 365 days of cool and strange and often obscure audio selections. Some words to describe the material featured would be... Celebrity, Children, Demonstration, Indigenous, Industrial, Outsider, Song-Poem, Spoken, Ventriloquism, and on and on and on. The best thing to do is to simply listen. http://ubu.com/outsiders/365/index.html Everything You Ever Wanted To Know About UbuWeb An in-depth sit-down interview with UbuWeb founder Kenneth Goldsmith on Archinect tracing the history, breadth, philosophy and scope of UbuWeb. http://archinect.com/features/article.php?id=59857_0_23_0_M Shirley Clarke - Shorts (1953-1982) A survey of short films by American independent filmmaker Shirley Clarke (1919-1997). Films include, "A Dance in the Sun" (1954), a portrait of dancer Daniel Nagrin; "A Moment in Love" (1957); "Bridges Go-Round" (1959) with two alternative soundtracks, one electronic music by Louis and Bebe Barron, the other jazz by Teo Macero; "A Scary Time" (1960) produced by UNICEF with a soundtrack by Peggy Glanville-Hicks; "Savage / Love" and "Tongues" (1981-82), a collaboration with Sam Shepard and Joseph Chaiken. http://www.ubu.com/film/clarke.html Alejandra & Aeron A survey of audio and film works from the collaborative team of Alejandra Salinas and Aeron Bergman. Wildflowers is a series of video text-animated portraits showing citizens of Detroit rejecting politics, opting instead to work on changing concepts of "common sense". The sound works range from found Riojan folk sounds to a study of the social, political, formal and aesthetic properties of sound environments in Porto, Portugal and Northern Spain. http://www.ubu.com/sound/aa.html ---------------------------- UBUWEB :: Late Fall 2007 ---------------------------- UBUWEB IS ENTIRELY FREE __ U B U W E B __ http://ubu.com Apologies for cross-postings. Please forward. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 22:57:09 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: melissa benham Subject: New Hooke Book: Creeley interview MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I'm channeling Brent Cunningham for this one: Hi, friends, Hooke Press is pleased to announce the publication of: INTERVIEW WITH ROBERT CREELEY http://www.hookepress.com/creeley.html This chapbook is the typescript of a taped interview I did with Creeley back in 1998. Penelope Creeley, Bob's wife when he died in 2005, says that he talks about a number of things she's never heard him go into elsewhere. We've only made 300, lovingly silkscreening the covers and lovingly paying a copyshop to staple the spines. It'll be out of print when those are gone. We're going to have it at a small discount of $8 plus $4 shipping for a little while via the online ordering procedure you're probably all too familiar with. http://www.hookepress.com/creeley.html Carry on, Brent Cunningham & the other editors of Hooke: Neil Alger Lindsey Boldt Melissa R. Benham for info on Artifact, codeswitching, & other work: www.artifactsf.org www.geocities.com/evilwarlordprincess photos are here! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 09:20:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bobbie Lurie Subject: anti-hero topic and re: internet communication In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Mary, Let me be more specific. This realization was inspired from your post and a backchannel I received which helped me realize something and today I realize it further: the internet is the anti-hero. I will?make that as statement now. Why? I am new to internet communication esp. on lists. For me it represented fact that I tend to wake very early so before my day begins I make some coffee and then I go to lists--at first thinking "how wonderful to connect with others all over the world"--(a hero, isn't it? the sense that the internet is a hero--allowing one to communicate ideas so easily with so many people)--but now I learn today from a friend that something vile has been said about me on another list (something so untrue it is absurd but how do i argue with it? it only extends the pain but i take this accusation very seriously--does this mean i shall be trapped in the web of the internet forever, trying to explain myself to people i'll never meet/ have no idea about?...well, no chance of being met on the internet as who we really are is there? why am i being accused of something so distant from anything i think or feel? it must be due to my?ignorance of?political orientation of list--but mostly due to my naivete and blindness to fact that when I type a message, I have no idea who will receive it--though the illusion was there for a while that my actions were meaningful in sense of?messages being received as I intended them a nd so I believed it. But there is a someone on the other end who has formed a view of each and all of us though we have no idea what that view is. We just see a blank screen and keep typing... The idea of "anti-hero"?has traditionally been?represented via the form of a person--and I think also of a lecture by Suzi Gablick when she said something to the effect that the romanticism of the individual artist is over--that sound?is what unifies--therefore language etc. which is just another small idea to support my sense that individual anti-heros no longer really exist. this idea of anti-hero seems to be to have?been appropriated as a cultural norm in many circles (ie; art, poetry etc. but also very much by many in their teens and 20s--there are clothing lines that seem to cater to the "anti-hero look"--so i see it as veneer--it looks like angst (i refer now to existentiaism also the "image" of "rebel") but it is only a "look" the actual experience of it is avoided via technology now, i believe. i mean, people on their cell phones talking to someone else while they're?eating lunch?with a real live person / checking text msgs. rather than speaking--and also internet com munication vs. phone calls or actual visits etc. The illusion of "who" you are speaking to is kept intact--when meeting an actual person there is no illusion--there is just another human facing you: you know what you can and can't say--so many signals like body language, voice, speech, eye contact or lack of etc. The anti-hero was very important. Someone helped me see this with the mentioning of existentialism--and I realized the internet covers up the possibility of this existential crisis--it gives the illusion of community--it gives the illusion of something being "out there"--so one is able to put this existential crisis off (for a while--i know i am facing one now and it is due to the internet and how i mistook it as a "hero" when it possesses the qualities of "anti-hero") thanks for listening, Mary, it is an idea which is only now forming in me- Bobbi ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 07:31:26 -0800 From: Mary Kasimor Subject: Re: anti-hero topic and re: internet communication Hmm, I will have to reread your email again. I do know that the internet does give me a false security. I teach an online class, and I surprise myself with my rants, but I don't think that is what you are telling me. That is why I will need to reread this (over and over) again. Thanks. Mary Bobbie Lurie wrote: Anthony, The words I sent were not my own but a quote I sent from Robert Kelly and Birgit Kempker's book "Shame"--it is a book in which they discuss the issue of "Shame" and only shame--it's an interesting book in that it holds to this theme/it examines this issue (shame) in exhaustive detail due to the very personal/ interpersonal way in which it is written, written both in German and English. It is not a scholarly text but an interpersonal discussion of rare honesty. I was not attempting to discuss Nietzsche's philosophy but rather to respond to Mary's request for ideas on the anti-hero (Anny called Nietzsche hero and anti-hero both)(your links did not work but sent me to google sign in page so I'm sorry I was unable to read them) I felt, in terms of the idea of "anti-hero" which becomes increasingly vague as I think about it, that this passage (by Kelly and Kempker) illustrates an aspect of the anti-hero. I agree with you that most anti-heros find it hard to live up to their thoughts but, as Alan pointed out, heros are known for their actions. Here is another quote from this book: "I am ashamed of myself because language never ends"--this is the shame I feel whenever I post on lists (or even (maybe especially) backchannels at this point). (something I have come to realize--impulse I feel and then regret acting upon--in communicating via internet--but that's another topic--having nothing to do with your response in the least--I appreciate your response--but more re: internet: the "illusion" of communication vs. the misunderstandings which follow due to limitations of email communications coupled with fact that I realize I imagine some "invisible listener" as I do when I write poetry--but as I say in response to who I write for I always use this complete sentence: "I write to an invisible listener who may or may not exist"--for me, the internet makes me feel ever more certain that there is no invisible listener--I feel internet communications require a different set of rules, rules I have yet to understand. And so, I would like to respond to Mary's question re: the anti-hero and, in spite of the fact that I know this will jive badly with that terrible cover of "person of the year" or whatever, I feel I'd like to suggest to Mary that the internet is the anti-hero. It puts off the existential crisis (thank you A. but I do not hold you responsible) that lurks beneath and erupts suddenly after veneer of internet/ illusion of connection and communication when truly it is a blank screen and what we imagine. I find it more painful than 3-d life. So I'd say the internet is the anti-hero (but that's just for this early a.m. with little sleep cause I'm just a stupid human being...most obviously) Thank you, Bobbi ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 23:12:21 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alexander Jorgensen Subject: BLACK ROBERT JOURNAL: call for submissions (Issue #1 will be out Feb. 2008) In-Reply-To: Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 black robert wrote: Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 23:02:46 +0800 From: "black robert" To: danlower@inbox.com BLACK ROBERT JOURNAL: call for submissions (Issue #1 will be out Feb. 2008) black-robert-journal.com OUR STOREFRONT: Who said: Is that your meaning? We're a fighting chance: that's the sorta material we're going for...spot on building...key elements...no parochial material...know the enemy...live...delve into culture...like to sometimes lie on our bellies. Already been booked for Issue #1: David-Baptiste Chirot, Kathup Tsering, Manas Bhattacharya Already been booked for Issue #2: Bengali Poetry Edition SUBMISSION DEADLINE: January 14, 2008 Please send submissions to: black.robert.journal@gmail.com HOW TO SUBMIT: Please send previously unpublished work. Please include "Submission" in the subject line. Please send a brief bio with the submission. Please no simultaneous submissions. Please send textual submissions in .doc or .rtf attachments. Please send visual submissions in .jpeg, .gif or .tiff attachments =20=20=20=20=20 WHAT TO SUBMIT: Please send essays. Please send poems as a single attachment. Long poems accepted. Please send short fiction. Please send vispo. Please send photography. Please send art. =20=20=20=20=20 REMUNERATION: Creator will receive a print edition. Print editions are published bi-annually. Copyright remains with the creator, but Black Robert Journal retains the right to include any work in print editions. --=20 Alexander Jorgensen bangdrum@fastmail.fm --=20 http://www.fastmail.fm - And now for something completely different=85 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 20:29:46 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Stone Subject: Re: 20th century long poems In-Reply-To: <20071213.163152.332.92.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit To comment on long poems, I have recently worked on an epic piece that I shall submit for publication shortly. It is indeed a long and well awaited piece that I wrote endlessly night and day for two months straight. This consisted of staying indoors far beyond the cabin fever us writers are used to. When writing a long poem, one decides to drift off into a space they feel comforted in, and almost lost as if the world around us has completely vanished and has been sucked away. Time tends to fall apart and doesn't really exist while doing such a thing. I think while I wrote this epic piece and selected other works into this book, I had felt to myself; "Who give a rats arse if someone does not like this piece. I am not writing this piece to become famous nor will I ever... and if I do become such a dreaded and media hacking piece of historical events, so be it. And if I do not become such a thing I know in my heart one thing, I had a barrel full in enlightenment and fulfilled my candlestick to my discretion." Writing isn't to fulfill the hearts and minds of others, it should be for yourself. I think so anyways... Thanks for being a reader, The Distorted Poet~ Michael G. Stone "steve d. dalachinsky" wrote: hey i wrote a 16 pager does that count? On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:53:50 -0500 ric carfagna writes: > meIEKAL, > > The beauty of a long piece is that it is always revealing new ways > of > interpreting itself over time to the reader. To immerse oneself in > the > intricacies, depth and complexity of a long work is one of the > distinctions poetry offers. That is what draws me to the form of > the > long poem and all its diverse manifestations, from structured > pieces > like Merrill's Changing light to the more free-flowing works of > Asberry > and Ammonns,Olson, etc . > My interest in the long poem is one of aesthetics, continuity and > of > course its history and evolution. The way I approach reading a long > poem > is not all at once, but it is rather a systematic study over time of > its > form, content and overall impression. The concentrated aspects of > poetry's nature is what I believe brings about the myriad ways to > approach, interpret and dissect its essence. > > > I find your Congeries an intriguing work. The heterogeneity one > experiences when first approaching it is to me > a jumping off point into unknown semantic wilderness. This is just > the > point I was trying to make in my above statement. This work indeed > promises the complexities and rewards which makes the whole nature > of > poetry a worthwhile art form in which to immerse oneself. You've > succeeded in showing this with the examples you present on your > site, > albeit static or not. I look forward to someday seeing & obtaining > a > complete copy. Do you find 'conventional' (read paper copy) > publishers > positive and accepting of your work? Historically, works of this > nature > has a notoriously checkered past, and it's only the passage of time > which proves to be the measure with which they are weighed and find > favor. Also, has someone done an interview with you regarding the > work, > or are there any essays floating around wherein I can glean some > info > into it's method of construction,extent etc? I think a work of this > diversity and complexity deserves to be studied and expounded in > depth. > > > As far as my own composing of a long poem, well I'm not shooting for > any > record books and I don't shout it from rooftops. I'm rather low-key > about soliciting my work these days. When all's said and done (and > written) it should shake out to be 800 plus pages, or thereabouts. > I > just recently finished a 350 page installment of it which I will be > sending out for potential publication next month. If it gets > selected > that'll be great, but I understand publishers apprehension these > days > about taking on new, experimentalish work. To me it's just the > satisfaction of actually completing something. Whether it's > historically > accepted and > actually read by others or not is a moot point. I guess we all have > an > impression of how someone else should interpret our work, how we > hope > they appreciate all the nuances and poignancies that went into its > composition. But then again that would be in a perfect world, and > we > know that that's not the case. But I'm positive about it (the world > that > is) just the same!!! > > Be Well, > Ric > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "mIEKAL aND" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 4:24 PM > Subject: Re: 20th century long poems > > > > RIC > > > > I'd love to see this list consider any one of these poems in > depth. Long > > poems in general have been ignored spurned neglected for far too > long. > > As time moves forward it seems the attention span grows shorter, > even > > physically having the time to read 800 pages is an improbability > for most > > people. Also I think the internet & hypertext has had a profound > effect > > on how larger bodies of information are organized & accessed. > I've been > > working for a number of years trying to come up with an online > portal for > > my long poem but to date I haven't come up with an interface that > would > > allow the reader to navigate intuitively thru the work. Maybe > when I can > > add a bit of AI to to the interface that would query a person's > tastes > > and interests (or read from their facebook profile :) & then, > knowing a > > person's interests, would affect what is presented on the > screen. > > > > About a third of my long poem SAMSARA CONGERIES is online here in > a > > static format > > > > http://xexoxial.org/samsara_congeries/?q=book > > > > & hopefully I'll have a final typescript of the poem (which I > started in > > 1978) finished in the next month. It, by the way, runs somewhere > over > > 800 pages but I'd like design it in such a way that it could be > around > > 500 pages. Finding a publisher for it will be harder than > writing it. > > > > What I really wonder, Ric, is why the question in the first > place? What > > does knowing the number of pages of a long poem really tell us > about the > > long poem itself. Perhaps yr plotting a new entry in the Guiness > World > > Book of Records? > > > > Now how long is your long poem? > > > > ~mIEKAL > > > > > > > > On Dec 10, 2007, at 9:24 PM, ric carfagna wrote: > > > >> Although it is not the longest, the unjustly neglected Tahl by > Jeremy > >> Ingalls weighs in at 621 pages. Let's start our discussion with > that one > >> mIEKAL! > >> > >> I also notice that Steve mentioned Jones' In Parenthesis; he also > wrote > >> The > >> Anathemata > >> as well as the unfinished Roman Quarry which if he had lived to > complete > >> it > >> would have been longer that both his previously mentioned works. > >> > >> By the way, how long is Peter Ganick's Splintered?? > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "mIEKAL aND" > >> To: > >> Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 8:12 PM > >> Subject: Re: 20th century long poems > >> > >> > >>> If only we spent this time having real discussions about these > titles > >>> ... > >>> > >> > > > > 24/7 PROTOMEDIA BREEDING GROUND > > > > JOGLARS CROSSMEDIA BROADCAST > > (collaborative text & media) > > http://www.joglars.org > > > > SPIDERTANGLE > > International Network of VisPoets > > http://www.spidertangle.net > > > > XEXOXIAL EDITIONS > > Appropriate Scale Publishing since 1980 > > http://www.xexoxial.org > > > > INTERNALATIONAL DICTIONARY OF NEOLOGISMS > > research | reference | ongoing collection > > http://www.neologisms.us > > > > Dreamtime Village > > Hypermedia Permaculture EcoVillage in Southwest Wisconsin > > http://www.dreamtimevillage.org > > > > "The word is the first stereotype." Isidore Isou, 1947. > > > > --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 10:53:12 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Evan Munday Subject: Robert Grenier and Rachel Zolf at New Yipes - Sunday, December 16 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed Hello everybody (especially those of you in the Bay Area), Don't miss Rachel Zolf, author of Human Resources, when she reads =20 alongside Robert Grenier at Oakland's New Yipes Reading Series. Watch language get broken on Sunday, December 16th at 21 Grand (416 =20 25th Street). The readings begin at 7:00 p.m., and there is a =20 suggested donation of $5. =91In this bad-mouthing and incandescent burlesque, Rachel Zolf =20 transforms a necessary social anger into the pure fuel that takes us =20 to =93the beautiful excess of the unshackled referent.=94 We learn =20 something new about guts, and about how dictions slip across one =20 another, entwining, shimmering, wisecracking. For Zolf, political =20 invention takes precedent, works the search engine.=92 =96 Lisa = Robertson 'It's a language experiment, a bit of office thievery, a sleight of =20 hand, and gorgeously executed. I have had the pleasure of hearing =20 Zolf read--certainly one of the finest readings I witnessed over the =20 course of my time in New York. Hear her if you can, and read it too.' =20= =96 Sina Queyras Visit http://newyipes.blogspot.com for more information. Take care, Evan ------------------------------ Evan Munday Publicist Coach House Books 401 Huron St. (rear) on bpNichol Lane Toronto ON, M5S 2G5 416.979.2217 evan@chbooks.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 11:13:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Wilcox Subject: Third Thursday Poetry Night, Albany: Daniel Nester Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed the Poetry Motel Foundation presents Third Thursday Poetry Night at the Social Justice Center 33 Central Ave., Albany, NY Thursday, December 20, 2007=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 7:00 sign up; 7:30 start Featured Poet: Daniel Nester with open mic for poets before & after the feature & a special holiday visit from Sanity Clause. $3.00 donation.=A0 Your constant host: Dan Wilcox. Daniel Nester is the author of =93The History of My World Tonight=94=20 (BlazeVox, 2006), =93God Save My Queen=94 (Soft Skull Press, 2003) and = =93God=20 Save My Queen II=94 (2004). His work has appeared in =93The Best = Creative=20 Nonfiction,=94 =93The Best American Poetry 2003,=94 =93Poets & Writers,=94= and=20 =93Time Out New York.=94 He edits the online journal Unpleasant Event=20 Schedule.=A0He is an Assistant Professor of English at The College of=20 Saint Rose in Albany, NY. Find him at danielnester.com.=A0Check out the=20= sample poem below. Desire is the Gasoline of Life after the Great Farini In this shifty world where hands with stigmata turn up like suitors in bodice-ripped love stories and clean-cut magicians videotape their tricks and priests sacrifice deformed children in basements ; all things truly mysterious have shorter star turns than they used to, shackled in favor of less humble fame ; I keep an out-of-state empathy for people like Farini, the Canadian magician, "Canada's Houdini," whose illusions had to be moral, Victorian, occidental, never scary or disheveled. This tiny blip jumped over Niagara ten times a day=97 ; hungry, silent, garrisoned in the barrel, shinnied up the crane in flames. God demands a broken and contrite spirit.=A0 You got one with me. I give you this plump, ragged animal hoping for another week's run, another chance to make history from a raw temper. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 10:49:25 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Kasimor Subject: Re: anti-hero topic and re: internet communication In-Reply-To: <8CA0C739A9A65CE-E6C-2801@WEBMAIL-MA12.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bobbie, Once again, I will need to reread your emails. I am trying so hard to find something that will capture my students. In a freshman writing/research, this is very difficult. However, they can be very critical--sometimes that is very good, but sometimes they miss the whole point. I am going to see if I can find a book that talks about internet communication in a way that might catch students attention, but also may undermine their previous thoughts/adaptability/etc.for all these types of "new" communication. Do you have any suggestions? If anyone has any suggestions, please get them to me. Thank you so much. Mary Kasimor Bobbie Lurie wrote: Mary, Let me be more specific. This realization was inspired from your post and a backchannel I received which helped me realize something and today I realize it further: the internet is the anti-hero. I will?make that as statement now. Why? I am new to internet communication esp. on lists. For me it represented fact that I tend to wake very early so before my day begins I make some coffee and then I go to lists--at first thinking "how wonderful to connect with others all over the world"--(a hero, isn't it? the sense that the internet is a hero--allowing one to communicate ideas so easily with so many people)--but now I learn today from a friend that something vile has been said about me on another list (something so untrue it is absurd but how do i argue with it? it only extends the pain but i take this accusation very seriously--does this mean i shall be trapped in the web of the internet forever, trying to explain myself to people i'll never meet/ have no idea about?...well, no chance of being met on the internet as who we really are is there? why am i being accused of something so distant from anything i think or feel? it must be due to my?ignorance of?political orientation of list--but mostly due to my naivete and blindness to fact that when I type a message, I have no idea who will receive it--though the illusion was there for a while that my actions were meaningful in sense of?messages being received as I intended them a nd so I believed it. But there is a someone on the other end who has formed a view of each and all of us though we have no idea what that view is. We just see a blank screen and keep typing... The idea of "anti-hero"?has traditionally been?represented via the form of a person--and I think also of a lecture by Suzi Gablick when she said something to the effect that the romanticism of the individual artist is over--that sound?is what unifies--therefore language etc. which is just another small idea to support my sense that individual anti-heros no longer really exist. this idea of anti-hero seems to be to have?been appropriated as a cultural norm in many circles (ie; art, poetry etc. but also very much by many in their teens and 20s--there are clothing lines that seem to cater to the "anti-hero look"--so i see it as veneer--it looks like angst (i refer now to existentiaism also the "image" of "rebel") but it is only a "look" the actual experience of it is avoided via technology now, i believe. i mean, people on their cell phones talking to someone else while they're?eating lunch?with a real live person / checking text msgs. rather than speaking--and also internet com munication vs. phone calls or actual visits etc. The illusion of "who" you are speaking to is kept intact--when meeting an actual person there is no illusion--there is just another human facing you: you know what you can and can't say--so many signals like body language, voice, speech, eye contact or lack of etc. The anti-hero was very important. Someone helped me see this with the mentioning of existentialism--and I realized the internet covers up the possibility of this existential crisis--it gives the illusion of community--it gives the illusion of something being "out there"--so one is able to put this existential crisis off (for a while--i know i am facing one now and it is due to the internet and how i mistook it as a "hero" when it possesses the qualities of "anti-hero") thanks for listening, Mary, it is an idea which is only now forming in me- Bobbi ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 07:31:26 -0800 From: Mary Kasimor Subject: Re: anti-hero topic and re: internet communication Hmm, I will have to reread your email again. I do know that the internet does give me a false security. I teach an online class, and I surprise myself with my rants, but I don't think that is what you are telling me. That is why I will need to reread this (over and over) again. Thanks. Mary Bobbie Lurie wrote: Anthony, The words I sent were not my own but a quote I sent from Robert Kelly and Birgit Kempker's book "Shame"--it is a book in which they discuss the issue of "Shame" and only shame--it's an interesting book in that it holds to this theme/it examines this issue (shame) in exhaustive detail due to the very personal/ interpersonal way in which it is written, written both in German and English. It is not a scholarly text but an interpersonal discussion of rare honesty. I was not attempting to discuss Nietzsche's philosophy but rather to respond to Mary's request for ideas on the anti-hero (Anny called Nietzsche hero and anti-hero both)(your links did not work but sent me to google sign in page so I'm sorry I was unable to read them) I felt, in terms of the idea of "anti-hero" which becomes increasingly vague as I think about it, that this passage (by Kelly and Kempker) illustrates an aspect of the anti-hero. I agree with you that most anti-heros find it hard to live up to their thoughts but, as Alan pointed out, heros are known for their actions. Here is another quote from this book: "I am ashamed of myself because language never ends"--this is the shame I feel whenever I post on lists (or even (maybe especially) backchannels at this point). (something I have come to realize--impulse I feel and then regret acting upon--in communicating via internet--but that's another topic--having nothing to do with your response in the least--I appreciate your response--but more re: internet: the "illusion" of communication vs. the misunderstandings which follow due to limitations of email communications coupled with fact that I realize I imagine some "invisible listener" as I do when I write poetry--but as I say in response to who I write for I always use this complete sentence: "I write to an invisible listener who may or may not exist"--for me, the internet makes me feel ever more certain that there is no invisible listener--I feel internet communications require a different set of rules, rules I have yet to understand. And so, I would like to respond to Mary's question re: the anti-hero and, in spite of the fact that I know this will jive badly with that terrible cover of "person of the year" or whatever, I feel I'd like to suggest to Mary that the internet is the anti-hero. It puts off the existential crisis (thank you A. but I do not hold you responsible) that lurks beneath and erupts suddenly after veneer of internet/ illusion of connection and communication when truly it is a blank screen and what we imagine. I find it more painful than 3-d life. So I'd say the internet is the anti-hero (but that's just for this early a.m. with little sleep cause I'm just a stupid human being...most obviously) Thank you, Bobbi ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 14:25:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: angela vasquez-giroux Subject: Re: 20th century long poems In-Reply-To: <44065.68339.qm@web54506.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline is it "cheating" to recognize many collected poems as one "long" poem? i think we tend to use "long" as a synonym for "epic". and epic has to include something of the heroic, right? olson, writing in the epic american / whitman tradition seems to really define the american "long" or epic poem. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 15:18:25 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Stone Subject: Re: 20th century long poems In-Reply-To: <8f6eafee0712141125l4e16d5efnf36128c0cd1781e3@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Reply to Angela Vasquez, Naturally. My manuscript (hopefully next book shortly) is indeed an epic (heroic) piece. :-) I will not go into detail, but let's just say it's very apocalyptic. Please feel free to view my website; http://thedistortedpoet.20m.com It is under serious construction, so bare with its content. -Michael G. Stone angela vasquez-giroux wrote: is it "cheating" to recognize many collected poems as one "long" poem? i think we tend to use "long" as a synonym for "epic". and epic has to include something of the heroic, right? olson, writing in the epic american / whitman tradition seems to really define the american "long" or epic poem. --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 20:02:18 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Simon DeDeo Subject: new on rhubarb is susan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Dear all, Two new reviews up on rhubarb is susan this week. Of a poem by Regina Derieva, in the St. Petersburg Review, and of Lisa Robertson in a reissue by BookThug. Find them here: http://rhubarbissusan.blogspot.com/2007/12/regina-derieva-between-window-and-door.html http://rhubarbissusan.blogspot.com/2007/12/lisa-robertson-from-apothecary.html http://rhubarbissusan.blogspot.com/ Visitors will note that now comments on the blog are moderated. Someone (or someones) over the past week has been leaving harassing comments on the blog. My hope is that they are trying to harass you, and not me, and so requiring moderation for a month or two will drive them away. Yours, Simon ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 15:51:39 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: defuge8 purplenude MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed defuge8 purplenude among deities, the appearance of deities among mindless selves, the appearance of mindless selves among structures, structures, and among deities, mindless selves among mindless selves, structures and deities purple nude sketch deviantart purple nude sketch really nice how long it take you? -- i like to pose in the mirror frank n flesh shimmery pinky/ purple nude gigolo glittery silver/purple gi joe olive khaki with sparkles jammin jack deep pearlized purple nude fairy glow why not? gold works well it was of a purple nude womanpleasuring herself! yes that is exactly what i want to be looking at when i am trying to eat my parents sheer long sleeves body stocking w/ cross back open crotch black nude #bs crochet body stocking open crotch black red purple she describes my painting as a boneless red blob masturbates whilst sniffing the crotch of a crude purple nude where i come from the usual practice is choose from our new colors of orange grey brown purple or nude (unpainted) the big deal of the week was nude bathing at brighton recently come up with a line of trunks in subdued shades of potato juice blotched with purple non nude wallpaper another shot of purple flowers marble hero railway scenes loving perspective academic painting purple bows reclining psoriasis is a non-contagious skin disease that turns skin purple use nude to create an invisible base for the dynamic glitter and black amethyst brillant purple glitter smoky/nude base the figured decoration is in the black-figured technique with the nude parts rendered in purple and the clothing in black and with a rather sparing use of an absolute dill at everything he tries he goes from one deadend job to another neck id have worn a purple cami under a shirt like that but youre totally right i bet she could have worn a purple or nude one and would have looked fine think purple is too much for some occasions? then try its cousin mauve in addition to purple wine green moss and nude shimmer mauve is kicking up quite with a golden yellow image of nation nude prozac what the real-life writer who very high dose purple pill review tiscali pull no prescription drugs microcrystalline piperidinium salt was dissolved in a minimum volume of high stockings have an elastic top and are available in black white red light pink hot pink royal blue light blue lime green purple and nude this dress is made in purple and nude but can be made for you in the colors of your choice additional rhinestones can be added as well reclining man reclining man point lobo point lobo purple iris desert scape dads red flower dads red flower dads nude dads nude haze rich frosty blue with purple undertones hush light peachy nude jet black jungle fever bright pink kloreen aqua-blue-green the bands feature brownish purple figures on a tan originally white ground at the top of each band except the fourth is a nude warrior with a shield this beautiful watercolor of a deep purple lilac light blue nude red white adult each in two other canvases perhaps preludes to these we see him nude once purple with a semi-erection and again on what appears to be an ice floe looking matte nude pink recommended for sparkling nude beige sparkling nude beige recommended for satin purple satin purple recommended for pack crotchless purple string bikini swimwear group at the bottom try to figure out why the bulldozer operator is completely nude hereditary peers are born to the purple perhaps this implies that she spent a lot of time talking to nude dancers (when they had their clothes on home crying nude on purple wall collapsed against a purple wall with human adenocarcinoma cells sqdg from edible purple laver (porphyra yezoen- sis) was donated by bizen cleavagevictoria silvstedt in a purple shimmery thingy outside westburyvictoria silvstedt nude cal-victoria silvstedt hq nude wallpaper [sexybits one shoulder two nude and one purple power net cut outs on body sleeves are nude power net with cuffs nude highway driving searching for one brief hour of madness joy ladies in purple t-shirts that said i am a raelian handing out literature naked buff nude narcotic bright turquoise perversion jet black purple this region contains some of yunnan s rarest rice germplasm including genotypes of upland nude rice and purple-fragrant-soft rice the dark blue purple hybridizing signal was located in cell nucleus of lymphoma-bearing nude mice the arrows pointed to the transplanted tumor under the left one a bearded nude male running his face is contoured with incision under the right a walking man wearing a purple chlamys to me it sounds as if you are really talking about nude equivalents gallium nitrate humoral hypercalcemia of malignancy nude mouse ructurai localization of tartrate-resistant purple dancing freely in the nude on my good-bye rose petal as the red plumb and suddenly a big bold capital letter appeared in the deep misty purple lit sky thats nothing compared to the mortal kombat nude code or the metroid nude like saying there was a purple power ranger and what not if you missed a few players underwent acupuncture dyed their hair purple posed nude played lazer tag kicking up quite cancer lesion is mainly composed of cancer cells (purple) around fine structures (less than television - a purple dress a vibrant kiss a nude stenographer and much else beside in this segment of the flux/goodchild relationship color! really nice how long it take you? -- i like to pose in the mirror purple nude al i to have a thing for the female form fire ohhhmmmm alumiere fire earth water air red nun bureau of wifes red toes dangling nude and in burgundy birkenstock thongs results listen nude one for the ladies with this episode entering the world of the gas mask series with the new heightened security one can never be too save a new series devoted to the gas mask nude code purple the purple circuit exists to promote glqbt theater and performance throughout and two years later i wrote the first known nude play camera obscura the bathroom with secret nude pictures of stringfellow hawk inside the airwolf helicopter wow how long ago was this! but on the far left wall remain purple torso back and purple torso front he jested its not my fault these people are nude theyre honest ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 23:01:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Ciccariello Subject: Frozen beach wrack poem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Frozen beach wrack poem -- Peter Ciccariello Invisible Notes ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 00:13:54 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: angela vasquez-giroux Subject: Re: 20th century long poems In-Reply-To: <132869.91013.qm@web54507.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Michael, I look forward to reading it, and congrats to you for dedicating yrself to reading it. AVG On Dec 14, 2007 6:18 PM, Michael Stone wrote: > Reply to Angela Vasquez, > > Naturally. My manuscript (hopefully next book shortly) is indeed an epic > (heroic) piece. :-) I will not go into detail, but let's just say it's very > apocalyptic. Please feel free to view my website; > http://thedistortedpoet.20m.com > It is under serious construction, so bare with its content. > -Michael G. Stone > > angela vasquez-giroux wrote: is it > "cheating" to recognize many collected poems as one "long" poem? > > i think we tend to use "long" as a synonym for "epic". and epic has to > include something of the heroic, right? > > olson, writing in the epic american / whitman tradition seems to really > define the american "long" or epic poem. > > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it > now. > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 08:00:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bobbie Lurie Subject: anti-hero topic and re: internet communication In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear Mary, Maybe we can backchannel? All this re: internet being anti-hero is just my own sense of it/ there are no books on it--when you wrote "anti-hero" combined with responses juxtaposed with issues current in my life re: internet--it all just seemed to mean something I needed to grasp--I will try to substantiate it--please keep in mind I'm an insomniac/ wake at 4a.m/ drink a lot of coffee...so glad when 3-d day begins--internet communications taking much more out of me than 3-d ones--that is basis of my theory--but I will look for sources as well...or at least try to write something coherent about it and pass it on to you if it seems to jell...sounds like an interesting class--someone, age 20, said to me, "my generation has no culture. can't you see that?" and that has been lingering in my mind as well... Bobbi Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 10:49:25 -0800 From: Mary Kasimor Subject: Re: anti-hero topic and re: internet communication Bobbie, Once again, I will need to reread your emails. I am trying so hard to find something that will capture my students. In a freshman writing/research, this is very difficult. However, they can be very critical--sometimes that is very good, but sometimes they miss the whole point. I am going to see if I can find a book that talks about internet communication in a way that might catch students attention, but also may undermine their previous thoughts/adaptability/etc.for all these types of "new" communication. Do you have any suggestions? If anyone has any suggestions, please get them to me. Thank you so much. Mary Kasimor Bobbie Lurie wrote: Mary, Let me be more specific. This realization was inspired from your post and a backchannel I received which helped me realize something and today I realize it further: the internet is the anti-hero. I will?make that as statement now. Why? I am new to internet communication esp. on lists. For me it represented fact that I tend to wake very early so before my day begins I make some coffee and then I go to lists--at first thinking "how wonderful to connect with others all over the world"--(a hero, isn't it? the sense that the internet is a hero--allowing one to communicate ideas so easily with so many people)--but now I learn today from a friend that something vile has been said about me on another list (something so untrue it is absurd but how do i argue with it? it only extends the pain but i take this accusation very seriously--does this mean i shall be trapped in the web of the internet forever, trying to explain myself to people i'll never meet/ have no idea about?...well, no chance of being met on the internet as who we really are is there? why am i being accused of something so distant from anything i think or feel? it must be due to my?ignorance of?political orientation of list--but mostly due to my naivete and blindness to fact that when I type a message, I have no idea who will receive it--though the illusion was there for a while that my actions were meaningful in sense of?messages being received as I intended them a nd so I believed it. But there is a someone on the other end who has formed a view of each and all of us though we have no idea what that view is. We just see a blank screen and keep typing... The idea of "anti-hero"?has traditionally been?represented via the form of a person--and I think also of a lecture by Suzi Gablick when she said something to the effect that the romanticism of the individual artist is over--that sound?is what unifies--therefore language etc. which is just another small idea to support my sense that individual anti-heros no longer really exist. this idea of anti-hero seems to be to have?been appropriated as a cultural norm in many circles (ie; art, poetry etc. but also very much by many in their teens and 20s--there are clothing lines that seem to cater to the "anti-hero look"--so i see it as veneer--it looks like angst (i refer now to existentiaism also the "image" of "rebel") but it is only a "look" the actual experience of it is avoided via technology now, i believe. i mean, people on their cell phones talking to someone else while they're?eating lunch?with a real live person / checking text msgs. rather than speaking--and also internet com munication vs. phone calls or actual visits etc. The illusion of "who" you are speaking to is kept intact--when meeting an actual person there is no illusion--there is just another human facing you: you know what you can and can't say--so many signals like body language, voice, speech, eye contact or lack of etc. The anti-hero was very important. Someone helped me see this with the mentioning of existentialism--and I realized the internet covers up the possibility of this existential crisis--it gives the illusion of community--it gives the illusion of something being "out there"--so one is able to put this existential crisis off (for a while--i know i am facing one now and it is due to the internet and how i mistook it as a "hero" when it possesses the qualities of "anti-hero") thanks for listening, Mary, it is an idea which is only now forming in me- Bobbi ----------------------------- Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 07:31:26 -0800 From: Mary Kasimor Subject: Re: anti-hero topic and re: internet communication Hmm, I will have to reread your email again. I do know that the internet does give me a false security. I teach an online class, and I surprise myself with my rants, but I don't think that is what you are telling me. That is why I will need to reread this (over and over) again. Thanks. Mary Bobbie Lurie wrote: Anthony, The words I sent were not my own but a quote I sent from Robert Kelly and Birgit Kempker's book "Shame"--it is a book in which they discuss the issue of "Shame" and only shame--it's an interesting book in that it holds to this theme/it examines this issue (shame) in exhaustive detail due to the very personal/ interpersonal way in which it is written, written both in German and English. It is not a scholarly text but an interpersonal discussion of rare honesty. I was not attempting to discuss Nietzsche's philosophy but rather to respond to Mary's request for ideas on the anti-hero (Anny called Nietzsche hero and anti-hero both)(your links did not work but sent me to google sign in page so I'm sorry I was unable to read them) I felt, in terms of the idea of "anti-hero" which becomes increasingly vague as I think about it, that this passage (by Kelly and Kempker) illustrates an aspect of the anti-hero. I agree with you that most anti-heros find it hard to live up to their thoughts but, as Alan pointed out, heros are known for their actions. Here is another quote from this book: "I am ashamed of myself because language never ends"--this is the shame I feel whenever I post on lists (or even (maybe especially) backchannels at this point). (something I have come to realize--impulse I feel and then regret acting upon--in communicating via internet--but that's another topic--having nothing to do with your response in the least--I appreciate your response--but more re: internet: the "illusion" of communication vs. the misunderstandings which follow due to limitations of email communications coupled with fact that I realize I imagine some "invisible listener" as I do when I write poetry--but as I say in response to who I write for I always use this complete sentence: "I write to an invisible listener who may or may not exist"--for me, the internet makes me feel ever more certain that there is no invisible listener--I feel internet communications require a different set of rules, rules I have yet to understand. And so, I would like to respond to Mary's question re: the anti-hero and, in spite of the fact that I know this will jive badly with that terrible cover of "person of the year" or whatever, I feel I'd like to suggest to Mary that the internet is the anti-hero. It puts off the existential crisis (thank you A. but I do not hold you responsible) that lurks beneath and erupts suddenly after veneer of internet/ illusion of connection and communication when truly it is a blank screen and what we imagine. I find it more painful than 3-d life. So I'd say the internet is the anti-hero (but that's just for this early a.m. with little sleep cause I'm just a stupid human being...most obviously) Thank you, Bobbi ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 06:12:27 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Subject: 20th century (Angela!) In-Reply-To: <8f6eafee0712141125l4e16d5efnf36128c0cd1781e3@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Angela--- really glad you brought this up... I don't think it's cheating.... nor is it cheating to question the status of the long poem, as "epic" and such... I always felt that what Laura (Riding) Jackson wrote about the 20th Century "long poem" is pretty spot on for me personally too. I don't want to paraphrase it (I want to say it's in Contemporaries and Snobs, 1928, but it could be elsewhere....it's been a while, forgive my rust)... And if one wants to use the term "poem" and "long poem" as the honorific terms, one could call her The Telling (the book version, in the early 70s) a "long poem" I suppose (she wouldn't like that though)--and talk about it in relation to, say, Ashbery's Three Poems, as kind of a counter to the Pound/OlsonZuk/ Enslin/Ronald Johnson/DuPlessis/S.Howe notion.... Nothing against the latter tradition or genre, but I don't think it's got a monopoly on the "20th century long poem" (and in a way Whitman is far less heroic macho than Pound, in a way "song of myself" or Blake's long works are very modest and personal... but, nah, don't want to get into that one again. school's out, etc....) Pessoa But, then I wouldn't be being flippant by saying that Beckett's Trilogy could be a "long poem" as well... and David Henderson's biography of Jimi Hendrix (or, to some extent, Baraka's Blues People...) at least as much an epic as Olson, etc... The 20th century definition of "poem" (and especially "long poem") by so many standards so narrow (as in "not mere prose" nor "entertainment"...yet 'of cultural relevance'...... Is it an "accident" that when "rhyme" (as in end rhyme) became unfashionable around the same time the disconnect between many "poetry" and "prose" conventions became greater.... Bye bye, American century, oh country-built-on-cars and electricity cars that could've run on alcohol (until prohibition). Insert Poundian ideogram here. (ugh).... It's personal as a freezing December...Kosmic Kulchur.. In other news (that stays news), Leonard Cohen is inducted into the rock and roll hall of fame the same day Madonna is...) Langston Hughes and John Cage didn't get enough votes this time (like Art Monk). C On Dec 14, 2007, at 11:25 AM, angela vasquez-giroux wrote: > is it "cheating" to recognize many collected poems as one "long" poem? > > i think we tend to use "long" as a synonym for "epic". and epic > has to > include something of the heroic, right? > > olson, writing in the epic american / whitman tradition seems to > really > define the american "long" or epic poem. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 11:43:23 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: Frozen beach wrack poem In-Reply-To: <8f3fdbad0712142001o2a9a7653t307b95ac51bf6263@mail.gmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit when i visit a friend in seattle who does steel sculpture, i sometimes gaze out at his backyard. it contains several brooded heaps or constellations of scrap material for future work. the pleasure of scrap-pile gazing is a bit mysterious to me but i do seem to stop and look at such things. heaps of art? the raw material all piled up and ready to go? wallace stevens said "I do not know which to prefer, The beauty of inflections Or the beauty of innuendoes, The blackbird whistling Or just after." Or just before, in this case. these days, peter, when i look at such things, some of your images invariably come to mind also. mind you, "beach wrack poem" is not a pile of scrap. it is as though the letters have grown organically through some sort of unmined but mindy lettristic mineral process from the wall of a cave. not code but language. natural language. 'natural language' is an interesting term. in computer science, it refers to languages used as a native tongue by a group of speakers, as opposed to computer languages, for instance. though, as with most uses of the word 'natural', the distinction becomes less useful over time. terrific piece, peter. thanks. > Frozen beach wrack poem http://bp3.blogger.com/_Rbn1KpdGMt8/R2NMidVZUDI/AAAAAAAAAho/_bDEnpip-U4/s160 0-h/beach-wrack-poem.jpg ja ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 16:03:44 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Ciccariello Subject: Re: Frozen beach wrack poem In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Thanks Jim, Natural language makes me think of "organic language". I am always aware of the stylistic nature of font design and letterforms, and can't resist the attempt to erode. "...The blackbird whistling Or just after." - I love that. - Peter On Dec 15, 2007 2:43 PM, Jim Andrews wrote: > when i visit a friend in seattle who does steel sculpture, i sometimes > gaze > out at his backyard. it contains several brooded heaps or constellations > of > scrap material for future work. the pleasure of scrap-pile gazing is a bit > mysterious to me but i do seem to stop and look at such things. heaps of > art? the raw material all piled up and ready to go? wallace stevens said > "I > do not know which to prefer, The beauty of inflections Or the beauty of > innuendoes, The blackbird whistling Or just after." Or just before, in > this > case. > > these days, peter, when i look at such things, some of your images > invariably come to mind also. > > mind you, "beach wrack poem" is not a pile of scrap. it is as though the > letters have grown organically through some sort of unmined but mindy > lettristic mineral process from the wall of a cave. not code but language. > natural language. > > 'natural language' is an interesting term. in computer science, it refers > to > languages used as a native tongue by a group of speakers, as opposed to > computer languages, for instance. though, as with most uses of the word > 'natural', the distinction becomes less useful over time. > > terrific piece, peter. thanks. > > > Frozen beach wrack poem > > http://bp3.blogger.com/_Rbn1KpdGMt8/R2NMidVZUDI/AAAAAAAAAho/_bDEnpip-U4/s160 > 0-h/beach-wrack-poem.jpg > > ja ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 14:28:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: stand by (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed stand by stand by reality and illusion are one who keeps the image from disappearing what appears on the surface manages the center every center covers a center succumb to deity, succumb to self reality and illusion are two wrathful deities keep the image from disappearing what manages the surface appears in the center every center uncovers a center discard deity, discard self stand by http://www.alansondheim.org/samsara.jpg arboreal ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 22:10:36 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: Frozen beach wrack poem In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Since Jim offered the long story, here is mine. First thing before coffee I switch on the pc and this morning on The New York Times I watched the Audio Slide on China's seafood industry, a series of articles grouped under the title: Choking on Growth that the New York Times has been offering for a while. Contaminated water for the fish which is then poured on the surrounding land and reminded me of some vegetables I ate that tasted like rotten fish. I then checked my mail and saw P. Ciccariello's work. Useless to say, I saw the fish again and ... On Dec 15, 2007 8:43 PM, Jim Andrews wrote: > when i visit a friend in seattle who does steel sculpture, i sometimes > gaze > out at his backyard. it contains several brooded heaps or constellations > of > scrap material for future work. the pleasure of scrap-pile gazing is a bit > mysterious to me but i do seem to stop and look at such things. heaps of > art? the raw material all piled up and ready to go? wallace stevens said > "I > do not know which to prefer, The beauty of inflections Or the beauty of > innuendoes, The blackbird whistling Or just after." Or just before, in > this > case. > > these days, peter, when i look at such things, some of your images > invariably come to mind also. > > mind you, "beach wrack poem" is not a pile of scrap. it is as though the > letters have grown organically through some sort of unmined but mindy > lettristic mineral process from the wall of a cave. not code but language. > natural language. > > 'natural language' is an interesting term. in computer science, it refers > to > languages used as a native tongue by a group of speakers, as opposed to > computer languages, for instance. though, as with most uses of the word > 'natural', the distinction becomes less useful over time. > > terrific piece, peter. thanks. > > > Frozen beach wrack poem > > http://bp3.blogger.com/_Rbn1KpdGMt8/R2NMidVZUDI/AAAAAAAAAho/_bDEnpip-U4/s160 > 0-h/beach-wrack-poem.jpg > > ja > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 13:30:19 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Re: 20th century long poems In-Reply-To: <001201c83d1a$401aee90$f8e29a04@Cesare> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Thinking of what is "a long poem," one, or myself that is, realizes there are really two kinds of this in one's experience. There is "a long poem" and then there is "along poem." The long poem is an immense architecture, containing a great many objects--by turns a museum, a library, a housing of documents, a topology and geography of land and cityscapes, a vast series of halls of historical exhibit and allusions. Words are arranged all along walls and ceilings, floors--with doors and windows, mirrors, images, rugs, a plethora of things in which one observes in each "the hand of the creator." (And the ear, eye, mouth, nose--) One enters into a structure, and behaves with a sense of that, at least for the first reading. Walt Whitman, who 'longed" in a sense to make a long poem--instead produced a strati--the archaeological layers of sediments which shifted from edition to revised and added to and rearranged edition of Leaves of Grass. Strati which also occur serially-- Stratiseriality--one might call it--"Strativariously" so to speak--or even on a clear day--"Stratispherically"--although even on these to recall that "my voice goes after/what my can't reach." Significantly Whitman's changes and revisings, , additions, subtrractions-- only came to an "end" with the "Deathbed Edition." Since the poem is "Leaves of Grass"--of course each time seeing "leaves of grass" one may be reminded that the poem --and Walt--are "still among the living," for the real long poem for Whitman was: "the greatest poem, these United States." Of course, Whitman is a 19th Century poet, not Twentieth as discussed here, but I think of him and his work being a long poem which is only now, even right now, just in a moment of the poem which "keeps on going" as the tongues which are the leaves of grass keep on growing year after year after year. The "Deathbed Edition" only marks the "end" of that particular phase of the poem, the one over which a living Walt had "final say." After that, it has continued on with whoever reads it, and even sitting unread, is a potential for compost, rotting away back into the earth to regenerate among worms the seeds of the leaves of grass. A serial poem, a strati of versions--simultaneously still in print--the "Original" version--and--the "Deathbed"--and the "in between" versions not as celebrated, widely discussed as the "book end" versions-- But then, that is not a "long poem" in the architectural sense--as the ones discussed here are. Musical and architectural elements create the immense structure of the "long poem." A long poem may be like unto: "In my Father's House are many mansions." It could be like "the Mansion on the Hill." The "along poem" for me is quite different. It's the poems and poets one reads in any old version of the text one may find any old where, through a lifetime of living with the "along poem," which is the poem, poet, works of same, that one never stops reading over and over and over and over again. Rather than having to enter into a magnificent structure as with a long poem, along poem is one that inhabits oneself and becomes a part of one's vision, hearing, memories, associations and one no longer knows some days is the poem one's along " shadow--or is one the "along shadow" of the poem? Of course a long poem may be also an along poem-- One or another of these along poems is always with one, near at hand. Ready for any calamity, there to be read over and over again in any number of sudden circumstances--an accident, an arrest, a sudden eviction, getting lost, having to wait hours in a line, finding oneself somewhere where the only words understood are the poems along with one. Those poems never stop and become the "longest poems" one ever knew. It is the not the "length" on the printed page, but the length through time of the poem's effects--which truly make both a long poem and an along poem. Many long poems may simply end at the final page, while a very short poem may know no end in a life of being an along poem, just as a long poem might also, if one so finds it to be. Years ago, with a Russian, I served as interpreter in a "heated" discussion a Ukrainian poet and Bob Cobbing had concerning the creation of the world's longest known palindrome. The Ukrainian poet had produced a four page palindrome, which he claimed was the longest such kind of poem ever yet achieved. The Ukrainian language, it turns out, is uncannily well suited for the creation of palindromes, so there is a long tradition of them, and a consciousness of "just how far one may go." And then--even further--four pages--who knows?-- Bob's contention was that he had written a palindrome of just a few words, but since it is a "round"--it goes round and round and round--like a perpetual motion machine wheel--round and round and round--for ever!! Granted the Ukrainian's palindrome was much "longer" in terms of "length"--in terms of NUMBERS--of words, of pages-- But Bob's palindrome was much much, ever and ever forveer so much longer because it--brief, compact, "simple"--had DURATION--far greater than any mere four pages and thousands of words-- This conversation had a weird palindromic form to in itself--in that the Ukrainian would speak to a Russian, who understood Ukrainian, and who would put it into German--so I could put it into English for Bob--and then back into German for the Russian who put it back into Ukrainian for the Ukrainian. Instead of four palindromic pages--four persons--and then instead of that being the "longest"--there was the "round" of going back and forth like this for a series of discussions on many important questions of poetry and length and time. So in a sense, the possibility existed for a palindromic form of interlocution-- as well as a perpetual motion one--the "never ending" examples and discussion of poems, poetry-- Regardless of the "length" of this event in terms of numbers of minutes, numbers of words, even of things printed handed back and forth--this of course has turned into an "along piece" from "a long time ago, " still "going on." ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 13:33:51 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Frozen beach wrack poem In-Reply-To: <8f3fdbad0712151303l4113ade9kd88ddcf6f2c678a3@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit "...brooded heaps..." I don't know of that is a form or expression, or not, but I like it. As if, any compilation of clutter becomes a form through which one kind or other of "brooding" is expressed. As say, unfinished poems in a pile in a corner of the studio. Stephen V http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ where many recent pix and small commentariies have recently come to reside. Peter Ciccariello wrote: Thanks Jim, Natural language makes me think of "organic language". I am always aware of the stylistic nature of font design and letterforms, and can't resist the attempt to erode. "...The blackbird whistling Or just after." - I love that. - Peter On Dec 15, 2007 2:43 PM, Jim Andrews wrote: > when i visit a friend in seattle who does steel sculpture, i sometimes > gaze > out at his backyard. it contains several brooded heaps or constellations > of > scrap material for future work. the pleasure of scrap-pile gazing is a bit > mysterious to me but i do seem to stop and look at such things. heaps of > art? the raw material all piled up and ready to go? wallace stevens said > "I > do not know which to prefer, The beauty of inflections Or the beauty of > innuendoes, The blackbird whistling Or just after." Or just before, in > this > case. > > these days, peter, when i look at such things, some of your images > invariably come to mind also. > > mind you, "beach wrack poem" is not a pile of scrap. it is as though the > letters have grown organically through some sort of unmined but mindy > lettristic mineral process from the wall of a cave. not code but language. > natural language. > > 'natural language' is an interesting term. in computer science, it refers > to > languages used as a native tongue by a group of speakers, as opposed to > computer languages, for instance. though, as with most uses of the word > 'natural', the distinction becomes less useful over time. > > terrific piece, peter. thanks. > > > Frozen beach wrack poem > > http://bp3.blogger.com/_Rbn1KpdGMt8/R2NMidVZUDI/AAAAAAAAAho/_bDEnpip-U4/s160 > 0-h/beach-wrack-poem.jpg > > ja ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 13:40:40 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jennifer Karmin Subject: Dec 28: CHICAGO MARATHON READING MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit CHICAGO MARATHON READING an off-site event coinciding with the 2007 Modern Language Association convention FRIDAY, DECEMBER 28th from 7-9:30pm at the School of the Art Institute of Chicago 112 S. Michigan Avenue, in the Ballroom FREE and ADA accessible to the public Co-sponsored by the the Writing Program at the School of the Art Institute and the Poetry Foundation OVER 50 POETS: Quraysh Ali Lansana, Joe Amato, Robert Archambeau, Dodie Bellamy, Ray Bianchi, Tisa Bryant, Charles Cantolupo, Stephen Cope, Josh Corey, Joel Craig, Elizabeth Cross, Garin Cycholl, Michael Davidson, Patrick Durgin, Joel Felix, Kass Fleisher, C. S. Giscombe, Renee Gladman, Chris Glomski, Steve Halle, Duriel Harris, Carla Harryman, William R. Howe, Pierre Joris, Jennifer Karmin, Kevin Killian, Petra Kuppers, David Lloyd, Nicole Markotic, Cate Marvin, Philip Metres, Laura Moriarty, Simone Muench, Aldon Nielsen, Mark Nowak, Kristy Odelius, Bob Perelman, Kristen Prevallet, Jen Scappettone, Robyn Schiff, Susan Schultz, Don Share, Ed Skoog, Kerri Sonnenberg, Chuck Stebelton, Mark Tardi, Catherine Taylor, Tony Triligo, Nick Twemlow, Lina Ramona Vitkauskas, Barrett Watten, Tyrone Williams, Tim Yu A DISPLAY OF CHICAGO JOURNALS & PRESSES: *ACM, http://anotherchicagomagazine.org *The Canary, http://canariumbooks.blogspot.com *Columiba Poetry Review, http://english.colum.edu/cpr *Court Green, http://english.colum.edu/courtgreen *Cracked Slab Books, http://crackedslabbooks.com *Dancing Girl Press, http://www.dancinggirlpress.com *Flood Editions, http://www.floodeditions.com *Hotel Amerika, http://www.hotelamerika.net *House Press, http://www.housepress.org *Journal of Artists' Books, http://jab-online.net *Kenning Editions, http://www.kenningeditions.com *Make Magazine, http://www.makemag.com *March Abrazo Press, http://www.marchabrazo.org *MoonLit, http://moonlitmag.blogspot.com *Sara Ranchouse, http://www.sararanchouse.com *Switchback Books, http://www.switchbackbooks.com *Third World Press, http://www.thirdworldpressinc.com *TriQuarterly, http://www.triquarterly.org AND MUCH MUCH MORE: Refreshments! Select books by the readers for sale from Small Press Distribution. The MLA Off-Site Marathon Reading is a satellite tradition coinciding but unaffiliated with the Modern Language Association's annual convention. This event is curated by Robert Archambeau and Patrick Durgin. The Chicago publications display is curated by Jennifer Karmin. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 00:27:25 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cralan kelder Subject: email address for EUGENE OSTASHEVSKY ? In-Reply-To: <8f3fdbad0712151303l4113ade9kd88ddcf6f2c678a3@mail.gmail.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable please back-channel if anybody has Eugene=B9s email adress thank you kindly ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 17:15:44 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alexander Jorgensen Subject: Poetry & Video In-Reply-To: Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 I am currently working on some short films and am wondering if you might be able to suggest the following: 1- editor software 2- sites wear such work might be submitted 3- information and work worthy studying Your time will be most appreciated! Regards, Alex -- Alexander Jorgensen bangdrum@fastmail.fm -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Access all of your messages and folders wherever you are ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 07:47:51 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Beckett Subject: E-X-C-H-A-N-G-E-V-A-L-U-E-S: THE SECOND XV INTERVIEWS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 E-X-C-H-A-N-G-E-V-A-L-U-E-S: The Second XV Interviews =20 Curated by Tom Beckett =20 328 pages=20 $19.95 + p&h =20 ISBN: 978-0-9803659-9-3 =20 Otoliths, 2007 =20 _http://www.lulu.com/content/1351093_ (http://www.lulu.com/content/1351093)=20= =20 Following on from the successful first volume of interviews from Tom=20 Beckett's insightful site(http://willtoexchange.blogspot.com),=20 E-X-C-H-A-N-G-E-V-A-L-U-E-S: The Second XV Interviews has just been releas= ed.=20 It contains interviews with Mark Young, Michael Heller, Bob Grumman, Shanna= =20 Compton, Sandy McIntosh, Jim McCrary, Gary Sullivan, A.L. Nielsen, Michael=20 Farrell, CAConrad, Anny Ballardini, Denise Duhamel, Nick Carb=F3, Jack Kimb= all,=20 Geoffrey Young & Jordan Stempleman, plus more than 100 pages of text & visu= al=20 poetry, an essay, even a play. The interviewers this time around are Tom=20 Beckett, Thomas Fink, Richard Lopez & Geof Huth.=20 **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes=20 (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=3Daoltop00030000000004) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 09:45:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Frozen beach wrack poem In-Reply-To: <8f3fdbad0712151303l4113ade9kd88ddcf6f2c678a3@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Jim, You gave expression to what I feel about this piece by Peter. Thanks. the gestures towards and from. the rest is silence. Murat On Dec 15, 2007 4:03 PM, Peter Ciccariello wrote: > Thanks Jim, > Natural language makes me think of "organic language". I am always aware > of > the stylistic nature of font design and letterforms, and can't resist the > attempt to erode. > "...The blackbird whistling Or just after." - I love that. > > - Peter > > On Dec 15, 2007 2:43 PM, Jim Andrews wrote: > > > when i visit a friend in seattle who does steel sculpture, i sometimes > > gaze > > out at his backyard. it contains several brooded heaps or constellations > > of > > scrap material for future work. the pleasure of scrap-pile gazing is a > bit > > mysterious to me but i do seem to stop and look at such things. heaps of > > art? the raw material all piled up and ready to go? wallace stevens said > > "I > > do not know which to prefer, The beauty of inflections Or the beauty of > > innuendoes, The blackbird whistling Or just after." Or just before, in > > this > > case. > > > > these days, peter, when i look at such things, some of your images > > invariably come to mind also. > > > > mind you, "beach wrack poem" is not a pile of scrap. it is as though the > > letters have grown organically through some sort of unmined but mindy > > lettristic mineral process from the wall of a cave. not code but > language. > > natural language. > > > > 'natural language' is an interesting term. in computer science, it > refers > > to > > languages used as a native tongue by a group of speakers, as opposed to > > computer languages, for instance. though, as with most uses of the word > > 'natural', the distinction becomes less useful over time. > > > > terrific piece, peter. thanks. > > > > > Frozen beach wrack poem > > > > > http://bp3.blogger.com/_Rbn1KpdGMt8/R2NMidVZUDI/AAAAAAAAAho/_bDEnpip-U4/s160 > > 0-h/beach-wrack-poem.jpg > > > > ja > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 10:42:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Happy Holidays! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On a gloomy Nor'easter Day - Happy Holidays! http://www.alansondheim.org/lumen.mov ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 15:03:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Metta Sama Subject: Call for Environmental poems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit x-listed: hi, All I'm putting together a quickie packet for my creative writing course, poems from internet lists that I'm on, primarily, of poets who address issues of environmental change and climate change, from various perspectives. (one of the most intriguing perspectives i find, for example, is Majora Carter's Bronx Initiative, which is, in part, about providing employment & sustainable living opportunities for folks.) So, if you have anything you don't mind sharing with a few students, please send along some poems. I'd like the little packet to have approximately 10-15 poems, since we're also reading chapbooks & a couple of fiction anthologies. FYI (for those of you on other lists with me, I'm sending this off to Cave Canem & WOM-PO, as well, so please don't forward.) Please backchannel, unless you're into forwardchannelling, of course. (still) (nearly) winterly, Metta ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 15:38:10 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve russell Subject: what Mario Vargas LLosa & Bob Marley have in common MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Nothing. Nothing at all. But I recently read an essay by Llosa that makes a convincing case for Marley being considered a hero. The man, Mario Vargas, is not at all a reactionary ( he's been accused of being one.). Are there any good Bob Marley movies out there. I find Marley far more compelling than Dylan, although they're both top tier pop music talents. Unlike Dylan, Marley is something of a revered religious figure, emblematic of his Rastafarian beliefs. --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 16:58:23 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jerrold Shiroma Subject: Re: what Mario Vargas LLosa & Bob Marley have in common In-Reply-To: <162537.74580.qm@web52406.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit kind of interesting that there even needs to be made a case on marley's behalf... steve russell wrote: > Nothing. Nothing at all. But I recently read an essay by Llosa that makes a convincing case for Marley being considered a hero. The man, Mario Vargas, is not at all a reactionary ( he's been accused of being one.). Are there any good Bob Marley movies out there. I find Marley far more compelling than Dylan, although they're both top tier pop music talents. Unlike Dylan, Marley is something of a revered religious figure, emblematic of his Rastafarian beliefs. > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 20:37:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: what Mario Vargas LLosa & Bob Marley have in common Comments: To: jshiroma@DURATIONPRESS.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline There are lots of Bob Marley movies, I like them all. Rebel Music, Bob Marley: A Spiritual Journey, and Catch A Fire are all interesting. Gregory Stephens has a book about Bob Marley, Frederick Douglass & Ralph Ellison as integrative ancestors, On Racial Frontiers. One of the things about Bob Marley is that a new generation of musicians--and of course musicians in many other genres besides reggae--reinvent & keep his music alive & growing. Two of my favorites are the Charlie Hunter Quartet's Natty Dread & Chant Down Babylon, where at last Bob Marley gets his African-American audience, & better still -- collaborators. I'd love to read the Llosa essay, can you give a reference? Hero? Yes certainly, and a genius. Mairead >>> Jerrold Shiroma 12/16/07 7:58 PM >>> kind of interesting that there even needs to be made a case on marley's behalf... steve russell wrote: > Nothing. Nothing at all. But I recently read an essay by Llosa that makes a convincing case for Marley being considered a hero. The man, Mario Vargas, is not at all a reactionary ( he's been accused of being one.). Are there any good Bob Marley movies out there. I find Marley far more compelling than Dylan, although they're both top tier pop music talents. Unlike Dylan, Marley is something of a revered religious figure, emblematic of his Rastafarian beliefs. > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 21:32:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ryan Daley Subject: Re: what Mario Vargas LLosa & Bob Marley have in common In-Reply-To: <162537.74580.qm@web52406.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Marley and Dylan have one thing in common, though: I'm tired of both. -Ryan On Dec 16, 2007 6:38 PM, steve russell wrote: > Nothing. Nothing at all. But I recently read an essay by Llosa that makes > a convincing case for Marley being considered a hero. The man, Mario Vargas, > is not at all a reactionary ( he's been accused of being one.). Are there > any good Bob Marley movies out there. I find Marley far more compelling than > Dylan, although they're both top tier pop music talents. Unlike Dylan, > Marley is something of a revered religious figure, emblematic of his > Rastafarian beliefs. > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it > now. > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 18:46:46 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve russell Subject: Re: what Mario Vargas LLosa & Bob Marley have in common In-Reply-To: <4765C9AF.8040108@durationpress.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit no, there isn't a case that has to be made on Marley's behalf. But the fact that LLosa wrote such an appreciative essay was interesting. I'm merely responding to that essay. Jerrold Shiroma wrote: kind of interesting that there even needs to be made a case on marley's behalf... steve russell wrote: > Nothing. Nothing at all. But I recently read an essay by Llosa that makes a convincing case for Marley being considered a hero. The man, Mario Vargas, is not at all a reactionary ( he's been accused of being one.). Are there any good Bob Marley movies out there. I find Marley far more compelling than Dylan, although they're both top tier pop music talents. Unlike Dylan, Marley is something of a revered religious figure, emblematic of his Rastafarian beliefs. > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 18:51:32 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve russell Subject: Re: what Mario Vargas LLosa & Bob Marley have in common In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit sure: the book i was reading is entitled "The Language of Passion." It's a collection of LLosa's newspaper articules, written, I think, while he was living in Spain. Mairead Byrne wrote: There are lots of Bob Marley movies, I like them all. Rebel Music, Bob Marley: A Spiritual Journey, and Catch A Fire are all interesting. Gregory Stephens has a book about Bob Marley, Frederick Douglass & Ralph Ellison as integrative ancestors, On Racial Frontiers. One of the things about Bob Marley is that a new generation of musicians--and of course musicians in many other genres besides reggae--reinvent & keep his music alive & growing. Two of my favorites are the Charlie Hunter Quartet's Natty Dread & Chant Down Babylon, where at last Bob Marley gets his African-American audience, & better still -- collaborators. I'd love to read the Llosa essay, can you give a reference? Hero? Yes certainly, and a genius. Mairead >>> Jerrold Shiroma 12/16/07 7:58 PM >>> kind of interesting that there even needs to be made a case on marley's behalf... steve russell wrote: > Nothing. Nothing at all. But I recently read an essay by Llosa that makes a convincing case for Marley being considered a hero. The man, Mario Vargas, is not at all a reactionary ( he's been accused of being one.). Are there any good Bob Marley movies out there. I find Marley far more compelling than Dylan, although they're both top tier pop music talents. Unlike Dylan, Marley is something of a revered religious figure, emblematic of his Rastafarian beliefs. > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 19:03:52 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Re: what Mario Vargas LLosa & Bob Marley have in common In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I saw Bob Marley perform as part of an day -night concert at Harvard Stadium MC by Dick Gregory--back in the late 70's=-- (i stumbled on footage of it at you tube--) he was fantastic--on stage over two hours--and was part of the small group of person, about 7 or 8--allowed to sit facing him at a long cafeteria type table set up on the sidelines of the football field--and talk/interview-- the only other musician i have ever met who had truly an Aura, a great spirituality, commitment, energy and a sense also of fragility, like a deer--was Don Cherry--they shared a world vision they had of /for/with music-- Bob Marley as a musician are i think as yet underrated in what he accomplished in moving from the early rude boys ska days and very simple tunes and covers--to the music he was forging later as his vision grew greater and more powerful, more world embracing-- he was one of those very rare human beings in whom there is another light--being radiated outwards--through him -into the world--a light of great hope and great change--great beauty--great energy-- for days and days after meeting him it felt as though as some kind of electric charge was still reverberating through and out of me phsyucially and in the spiritual sense-- he was able to communicate this to whole stadiums the world over as well as through hundreds of millions of radios, boom boxes, videos, movies, images--the sound carries on throughout the world-- He had a very soft speaking voice and gave very precise answers to questions and asked many of his own-- it wasn't like being in the presence of a "superstar" at all--a very humble person in the sense a deeply spiritual being is-- he didn't have any "self-absorption"--very rare indeed in anyone let alone a being in his place-- he radiated outward, into and through the world--the vibrations and reverberations-- greater than the person --who was the bringer of them-- and brought others into a greater sphere as it were of the meaning of being on a "globe" together-- > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 21:15:53 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: what Mario Vargas LLosa & Bob Marley have in common In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit that gregory stephens book disturbed me when i looked at it some many years ago now. it seemed to me that rather than being a project in favor of multi-racial hybridity or indeterminacy, there were undercurrents of ... well, a bit of white ressentiment, perhaps. maybe this is overstating the case, but what i thought might have had some promise turned out to be... something other than what i'd thought it might be. Mairead Byrne wrote: > There are lots of Bob Marley movies, I like them all. Rebel Music, Bob > Marley: A Spiritual Journey, and Catch A Fire are all interesting. > Gregory Stephens has a book about Bob Marley, Frederick Douglass & Ralph > Ellison as integrative ancestors, On Racial Frontiers. One of the > things about Bob Marley is that a new generation of musicians--and of > course musicians in many other genres besides reggae--reinvent & keep > his music alive & growing. Two of my favorites are the Charlie Hunter > Quartet's Natty Dread & Chant Down Babylon, where at last Bob Marley > gets his African-American audience, & better still -- collaborators. > I'd love to read the Llosa essay, can you give a reference? Hero? Yes > certainly, and a genius. > Mairead > > >>>> Jerrold Shiroma 12/16/07 7:58 PM >>> >>>> > kind of interesting that there even needs to be made a case on marley's > behalf... > > steve russell wrote: > >> Nothing. Nothing at all. But I recently read an essay by Llosa that >> > makes a convincing case for Marley being considered a hero. The man, > Mario Vargas, is not at all a reactionary ( he's been accused of being > one.). Are there any good Bob Marley movies out there. I find Marley far > more compelling than Dylan, although they're both top tier pop music > talents. Unlike Dylan, Marley is something of a revered religious > figure, emblematic of his Rastafarian beliefs. > >> >> --------------------------------- >> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. >> > Try it now. > >> >> ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 23:34:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Metta Sama Subject: 9th Letter Seeks Submissions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (this is a forward; please do not hit reply if you need additional information; contact info below...) Poets, Ninth Letter will publish a special section in the upcoming Spring 08 issue featuring poems about music. All music. Jazz, Blues, Classical, Reggae, Funk, Country, etc., etc., etc. For the first time, we will be accepting submissions via e-mail. You may use the link below: https://www-s.art.uiuc.edu/ninthletter/submissions/ You may also send your submissions via snail mail to: Poetry Editor NINTH LETTER University of Illinois Department of English 608 South Wright St. Urbana, IL 61801 Please feel free to pass this info on to other listserves! Thanks! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 05:02:37 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: tiffanytext MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed tiffanytext tiffany tiffany hold it tiffany hold it splitting bang. tiffany exclaims "you killed me!" you drop the bones of our website . supplier for 3 years and won the good reputation on this line. the on . pleasure more ebay resellers join our company and enjoy our looking for a good source of wholesale tiffany for your retail tiffany says, in a light later, these will be known as the real. so says tiffany honey clarissa shulamit margarita catherine tiffany no longer call her own a plain with tiffany of white crows black sky clarissa evacuation hielo internet, tiffany, alan, claire, honey, and others, tiffany, in as men and women hear tiffany 'sdeath cry. tiffany appears with an ear- tiffany nothing means but when thinking exhausts, meaning appears. tiffany nothing means but when thinking exhausts, meaning appears. tiffany says you chop tiffany to pieces! ah! the blood! your blood freezes dagger. tiffany eats the corpse. tiffany becomes queen of everything in plains, tiffany eats a dagger. tiffany eats the corpse. tiffany becomes sky clarissa evacuation of anal, stumbled clitoris of tiffany, burrowed queen of everything in the lpmud of tiffany . the hole. the hole in the queen of everything in the midst of the other. eyes; in turn, she snapped tiffany 'swrist as if it were paper. bones food here' tiffany grins evilly. tiffany eats the corpse. tiffany becomes tiffany thinking is exhaustion. tiffany thinking is exhaustion. behind dark eyes, illuminated wires, and tiffany and honey and travis, or one-stop shop for wholesale .hope you will get more surprise items on quaint, magical gesture with one hand. tiffany has created the herbalist.. tiffany smiles happily. tiffany points whatever s/he or anyone proffers as there were ghosts, tiffany and honey, when clara hielo internet ruled cheap bootleg), including the necklace ,cuff , ring ,earring . as 1837 alan, it is enough that you were thinking. tiffany the sun makes difference tiffany the sun makes difference exactly, you may have all kinds of questions from beginning if you're with tiffany alan or clitoral double cones, flattened, holed with clitoral, style , round / heart tag style , atlas style , titanium style and so particular, relation say to tiffany forever. as long as tiffany will the real. so says tiffany honey clarissa shulamit margarita catherine tiffany no longer call her own a plain with tiffany of white crows black operation, online store or auction business is your of anal, stumbled clitoris of tiffany , burrowed plains, tiffany eats a lpmud of tiffany . the hole. the hole in the datagrams, the sound. tiffany they end the process, sleep during the night when dreams tiffany they end the process, sleep during the night when dreams the datagrams, the sound. intensity of tiffany alan, hole. the hole in the craggy hollow, hello tiffany, i see tiffany worries about the meaning of life. tiffany makes a products of us are the best quality in china and the lowest price(not service. since we are mate wholesaler and dropshipping servicer who for a while, leaped up and ran the house. she'll be back later, tiffany. speak, i will listen. i swear it. @describe lance as holed skin, rimmed tiffany that it would have given information and tiffany wholesaler is a professional tiffany jewelry can help you feel confidence to set up a steady business.to be tiffany says 'did you kill orc?' tiffany says 'i've been eating lots. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 10:54:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: what Mario Vargas LLosa & Bob Marley have in common Comments: To: david.chirot@GMAIL.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Yeah well I'm not tired of Bob Marley, as you can guess. I hope it never happens, but there is a fixed body of work, even though the Marleys & lots more continue to work with it, & out of it. I was very interested to read your account, David, particularly what you say about his way of speaking. I never saw Bob Marley perform but listen to interviews --and am always stunned by the difference between his speaking and singing voice. Even after years I have to still laugh in incomprehension when I listen to him speak, there was absolutely no compromise with that accent, man. But when he sings: every word is absolutely clear, or nearly every word (he has such a great vocabulary), even though the phrases don't always add up to absolute sense. But the songs are packed dimensionally with other kinds of sense. One of things I most admire about him is the absolute discipline of moving from those early recordings, when he was 16, relentlessly through 20 years of composition, activism, and performance. He made pretty good choices with producers & labels, & then founding his own company Tuff Gong which continues to release great material. One of the movies, Catch A Fire I think, has extensive interviews with Chris Blackwell & Tony Platt, who engineered Catch a Fire I think, the Wailers' first Island record: that's really fascinating to see how the music was put together. Poetry doesn't know or do anything like that. Mairead >>> David Chirot 12/16/07 10:03 PM >>> I saw Bob Marley perform as part of an day -night concert at Harvard Stadium MC by Dick Gregory--back in the late 70's=-- (i stumbled on footage of it at you tube--) he was fantastic--on stage over two hours--and was part of the small group of person, about 7 or 8--allowed to sit facing him at a long cafeteria type table set up on the sidelines of the football field--and talk/interview-- the only other musician i have ever met who had truly an Aura, a great spirituality, commitment, energy and a sense also of fragility, like a deer--was Don Cherry--they shared a world vision they had of /for/with music-- Bob Marley as a musician are i think as yet underrated in what he accomplished in moving from the early rude boys ska days and very simple tunes and covers--to the music he was forging later as his vision grew greater and more powerful, more world embracing-- he was one of those very rare human beings in whom there is another light--being radiated outwards--through him -into the world--a light of great hope and great change--great beauty--great energy-- for days and days after meeting him it felt as though as some kind of electric charge was still reverberating through and out of me phsyucially and in the spiritual sense-- he was able to communicate this to whole stadiums the world over as well as through hundreds of millions of radios, boom boxes, videos, movies, images--the sound carries on throughout the world-- He had a very soft speaking voice and gave very precise answers to questions and asked many of his own-- it wasn't like being in the presence of a "superstar" at all--a very humble person in the sense a deeply spiritual being is-- he didn't have any "self-absorption"--very rare indeed in anyone let alone a being in his place-- he radiated outward, into and through the world--the vibrations and reverberations-- greater than the person --who was the bringer of them-- and brought others into a greater sphere as it were of the meaning of being on a "globe" together-- > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 10:58:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: what Mario Vargas LLosa & Bob Marley have in common Comments: To: damon001@UMN.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I was really excited about the Gregory Stephens book as two of its three figures are people who interest me greatly: Bob Marley & Frederick Douglass. So it was disappointing to discover that it was kind of muddy, in some way, & hard to get through. So I haven't read it properly but keep going back in hopes. Oh, on another sort of slog: crunching, chipping, pounding, shoveling away all morning trying to get the car out past what the snow plough left me. Failure, bitter failure. Snow is the most maddening philosopher I've ever tried to grapple with. Mairead >>> Maria Damon 12/16/07 10:15 PM >>> that gregory stephens book disturbed me when i looked at it some many years ago now. it seemed to me that rather than being a project in favor of multi-racial hybridity or indeterminacy, there were undercurrents of ... well, a bit of white ressentiment, perhaps. maybe this is overstating the case, but what i thought might have had some promise turned out to be... something other than what i'd thought it might be. Mairead Byrne wrote: > There are lots of Bob Marley movies, I like them all. Rebel Music, Bob > Marley: A Spiritual Journey, and Catch A Fire are all interesting. > Gregory Stephens has a book about Bob Marley, Frederick Douglass & Ralph > Ellison as integrative ancestors, On Racial Frontiers. One of the > things about Bob Marley is that a new generation of musicians--and of > course musicians in many other genres besides reggae--reinvent & keep > his music alive & growing. Two of my favorites are the Charlie Hunter > Quartet's Natty Dread & Chant Down Babylon, where at last Bob Marley > gets his African-American audience, & better still -- collaborators. > I'd love to read the Llosa essay, can you give a reference? Hero? Yes > certainly, and a genius. > Mairead > > >>>> Jerrold Shiroma 12/16/07 7:58 PM >>> >>>> > kind of interesting that there even needs to be made a case on marley's > behalf... > > steve russell wrote: > >> Nothing. Nothing at all. But I recently read an essay by Llosa that >> > makes a convincing case for Marley being considered a hero. The man, > Mario Vargas, is not at all a reactionary ( he's been accused of being > one.). Are there any good Bob Marley movies out there. I find Marley far > more compelling than Dylan, although they're both top tier pop music > talents. Unlike Dylan, Marley is something of a revered religious > figure, emblematic of his Rastafarian beliefs. > >> >> --------------------------------- >> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. >> > Try it now. > >> >> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 08:17:18 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve russell Subject: Re: what Mario Vargas LLosa & Bob Marley have in common In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit what a moving tribute to Marley. You also mentioned Don Cherry. He played a special type of trumpet, maybe it was a piccolo trumpet. I played trumpet in high school. I wanted to be Miles Davis, unusual for a white kid in the late seventies. When it became clear to me that I wouldn't be able to become Miles Davis, I tried to look at the world without blinders and become Nat Adderly on the cornet. I also played the guitar. Being ambitious, at one time I wanted to be Miles Davis and Jeff Beck. I wanted to be older and famous and without, if I remember correctly, acne. David Chirot wrote: I saw Bob Marley perform as part of an day -night concert at Harvard Stadium MC by Dick Gregory--back in the late 70's=-- (i stumbled on footage of it at you tube--) he was fantastic--on stage over two hours--and was part of the small group of person, about 7 or 8--allowed to sit facing him at a long cafeteria type table set up on the sidelines of the football field--and talk/interview-- the only other musician i have ever met who had truly an Aura, a great spirituality, commitment, energy and a sense also of fragility, like a deer--was Don Cherry--they shared a world vision they had of /for/with music-- Bob Marley as a musician are i think as yet underrated in what he accomplished in moving from the early rude boys ska days and very simple tunes and covers--to the music he was forging later as his vision grew greater and more powerful, more world embracing-- he was one of those very rare human beings in whom there is another light--being radiated outwards--through him -into the world--a light of great hope and great change--great beauty--great energy-- for days and days after meeting him it felt as though as some kind of electric charge was still reverberating through and out of me phsyucially and in the spiritual sense-- he was able to communicate this to whole stadiums the world over as well as through hundreds of millions of radios, boom boxes, videos, movies, images--the sound carries on throughout the world-- He had a very soft speaking voice and gave very precise answers to questions and asked many of his own-- it wasn't like being in the presence of a "superstar" at all--a very humble person in the sense a deeply spiritual being is-- he didn't have any "self-absorption"--very rare indeed in anyone let alone a being in his place-- he radiated outward, into and through the world--the vibrations and reverberations-- greater than the person --who was the bringer of them-- and brought others into a greater sphere as it were of the meaning of being on a "globe" together-- > > > > --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 11:03:31 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Skip Fox Subject: Re: Frozen beach wrack poem In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I believe the Museum of Southern Ohio in Portsmith will be doing a tree wrack exhibit using trees that washed up along the Ohio River sometime = soon. I believe Tom Bridwell will be central to this. It might be interesting = to contact. If you're interested, Peter, he's at Tomroadkill@aol.com > Frozen beach wrack poem http://bp3.blogger.com/_Rbn1KpdGMt8/R2NMidVZUDI/AAAAAAAAAho/_bDEnpip-U4/s= 160 0-h/beach-wrack-poem.jpg ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 12:49:41 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Howe Subject: New on Glossolalia: CAConrad etc MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear poets: A variety of new material is available from Glossolalia. It includes the following: BALLET, new video and audio featuring CAConrad reading from Deviant Propulsion. BALLET is Glossolalia's first 100% pretty, 0% scary creation. HEDGE MAZE, an audio track featuring the voices of Allyssa Wolf and Jon Leon. HEDGE MAZE originally appeared in Spaltung #2, a multimedia publication of the APG. A video for SUDDEN SPIDER, featuring Rod Smith reading from The Spider Poems. A video for ELLA FINDS HER VOICE, featuring Ella Vowell. As always, Glossolalia is thankful to people who entrusted it with their voices. As always, this material is available for no cost and little effort at http://glossolalia-blacksail.blogspot.com/ Best, Brian Howe ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 09:57:15 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Fwd: Vote Now For The Candidate You Really Like In The Real Independent Primary//Voting closes tomorrow-- MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline My oldest son called this morning from Thailand, where he has lived most of the last five years. There are elections going on there, also, perhaps in a more or at least, as, "open" way--under the rule of the military Junta--than in the USA, under its own form of corporate-fascist Junta. Despite the signs outside villages that say "No money for votes," my son said that al day and night trucks and cars equipped with loudspeakers blasting campaign slogans and alluring music pour through the hamlets and towns, with the various candidates or their representatives stopping in strategic locations to hand out money in exchange for the pledge of a vote. There has also been a widespread phenomena of the appearance in trees of hand-made signs proclaiming "Jesus is the Way." Evangelical Christians are a very tiny minority, so even though people know that actual persons must have put the signs there, since no one has seen them do it, and many have never seen an Evangelical Christian, there is a popular belief the signs "just appear," like many other phenomena in nature. My son lives outside Roi Et and for a while lived in a another small city on the Mekong River, looking straight at the hills of Laos. Photos he sent from there showed the gradual engulfment of Western history within the flows of another kind of time. An ancient, beautifully weathered and fading Catholic Church built by the Vietnamese, covered in writing in the Vietnamese language, the bare bones of a former US Air Force mini-base for the bombing of the Ho Chi Minh Trail and Cambodia, some remains of French colonial architecture. All relics of departed foreigners, slowly turning into "timeless" Thai edifices in the wash and patinas of time. The second night his mother visited there, while they were eating outside with my son's new-born daughter, two young elephants came up to them, one of them playing a harmonica. (There is a music school for elephants in Thailand, and the elephants have released a number of CDs.) Roi Et is in north-central Thailand; far enough from Bangkok that the elections don't seem of much importance. According to my son, the whole region believes that as long as there is nominally a King, whoever runs the government really doesn't matter. Can the government change the weather? Can the government change Time? My son says that Time in the Western sense exists only a few decades into the past, and everything before that exists in a completely different time of legends and stories. That time gradually absorbs the Western time into itself. It's wonderful to have happy shiny machines for music and communications, cars--but al these happy shining things are more to do with Buddha than anything else. And farther north, there are no Buddhas or any other Gods--despite untold centuries of efforts to convert them to all sorts of religions, the people have remained stead fastedly Animists. Why believe in unseen "Gods" when the animals and plants with their spirits are all around one? The 2000 election set a precedent in that a president was not determined by an election, but by a Court. The 2004 election was riddled with fraud. Voting machines have been proven just as easy to manipulate as voters purchased off the street, a method that in its heyday is thought to have been the cause of death of Edgar Poe his repeated "votes" being purchased with drinks. If anything, electronic/digital apparati are "far better" for creating phantom voters than even the legendary old cemeteries of Cook County, where the dead voted away for generations, like George Romero's zombies returning to the Malls in Dawn of the Dead. By the time the dust of the primaries has cleared, and the two "candidates" spend another billion or two apiece, the fix will already be in. Hordes of "phantom" pixel-created "voters" will "vote" and democracy will be the "representative government" of "virtual reality." Persons who complain that the "government" is "out of touch" with "reality," though correct in a sense, will be shown "not to exist" as "virtual realities" the only realities that "count." In effect, their "identities" will have been stolen and donated to the needy--all those phantoms in search of a name and an address, a birth date and Social Security number. The invasion and occupation of Iraq was based on forged documents, cherry picked and doctored intelligence. Now that intelligence shows there is no need to rush to war with Iran--it is too late. After all, if the data before was not "true," and exposed the incompetence of "American intelligence," why believe that this report is any more true? On the contrary, does this not underline in fact its complete falsity? A former lie, like a former non-election, leaks into and corrodes the later "truth" and attempts at a "real election." The obdurate persistence of the lie produces, rather than a non-necessity for war--a heightened demand for it. Despite all the evidence to the contrary, the American "government" and the Israeli, are pushing even harder for conflict with Iran. By being proven a non-threat, the Iranians have now become "even more dangerous." Israel has announced its intention to attack, regardless of what the Americans deludely think of their "incompetent intelligence." The current non-elected government has so radically changed the laws and rules for the Office of the Presidency and Vice-Presidency, that which ever fixed candidate lands in those chairs can become a dictator overnight. These living-dead "products" of virtual creation will "run the show" with ever more ruthless disregard for the living and their "evidences." Those troubled by the seeming gap between "concrete" and "virtual" realities will be found to be suffering from "hallucinations" and quietly interred or "disappeared," their former "identities" supplied to either willing "living bodies," or pixel beings, madly crushing the entrances to virtual Malls. Many will think that perhaps this invasion from cyber space is "really" science-fiction, and that it is actually, as in the movies, an Invasion from Outer Space. For their benefit, the circulation and sightings of UFOs will be increased. Better to blame "illegal aliens," after all, than the law abiding "citizens" and "Government" of the Land of the Free. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: The Pen Date: Dec 16, 2007 11:14 PM Subject: Vote Now For The Candidate You Really Like In The Real Independent Primary To: david.chirot@gmail.com We are persuaded that none of the so-called front-runners in the current Democratic primary process may yet represent the true choice of the people, and suspect they are being foisted on us by a disproportionate share of media attention, and even speaking time in the debates. There is a totally independent primary poll being conducted at Independent Primary Poll: http://independentprimary.com/ We are encouraging all our participants to make your voice heard for the candidate you really like before this poll closes at the end of the day, this coming Tuesday, Dec. 18. This major on-line poll is being conducted by a consortium of Independent voters around the county, and is sure to have a significant impact on the real primaries just about to start. The groups running this poll do not favor one party or the other, they vote on issues, and character of the candidate. And they are a large constituency. Independents make up more than 40 percent of the electorate, and it is expected there will be several hundred thousand votes in this poll by the time it closes Dec. 18, so the media is paying attention. Just to give you an example, in the recent poll run by Democracy for America, founded by current DNC chairman Howard Dean, these were the results out of 154,000 votes cast: Kucinich 32.97%, Gore 24.77%, Edwards 15.6%, Obama 13.86%, Clinton 4.21%, Richardson 4.09%, Other 2.05%, Dodd 1.56%, Biden 1.12%, Gravel 0.77% Maybe we should stop letting the corporate talking heads pick our candidates for us. Especially if you feel that the current tilt of the coverage of the candidates does not match your first preference, please make your voice heard now where it will really count. Independent Primary Poll: http://independentprimary.com/ The poll closes on Tuesday, Dec. 18. So please vote now, and spread the word to all your lists. Please take action NOW, so we can win all victories that are supposed to be ours, and forward this alert as widely as possible. If you would like to get alerts like these, you can do so at http://www.usalone.com/in.htm Or if you want to cease receiving our messages, just use the function at http://www.usalone.com/out.htm usalone147b:23661 Powered by The People's Email Network Copyright 2007, Patent pending, All rights reserved ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 14:56:50 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: Re: Intimacy Chat Transcription MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit These are awesomely beautiful, especially 7 through 9 and 11. I have no idea of the theory behind them, but as aesthetic objects alone they are mesmerizing. I want to blow them up and make a triptych and cover a wall with 7 through 9. Images also at: http://www.alansondheim.org/intimacy05.jpg http://www.alansondheim.org/intimacy06.jpg http://www.alansondheim.org/intimacy07.jpg http://www.alansondheim.org/intimacy08.jpg http://www.alansondheim.org/intimacy09.jpg http://www.alansondheim.org/intimacy10.jpg http://www.alansondheim.org/intimacy11.jpg **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 17:55:39 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "megan m. garr" Subject: Versal VI Call for Submissions - One month left! Comments: To: "UB Poetics discussion group "@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Dear friends, Versal has just one month of it's submission period left! Our "call for submissions" is included here. Please feel free to circulate and scatter, post, or keep for future reconnaissance work. Kind regards, Megan M. Garr Editor, Versal http://versal.wordsinhere.com A VERSAL CALL Versal wants your poetry, prose, and art for its sixth issue due out in May, 2008. Internationally acclaimed literary annual published in Amsterdam; perfect bound, 100 pages of the urgent, involved, & unexpected. See website for guidelines and to submit: http://versal.wordsinhere.com. Inquiries (only): versal@wordsinhere.com. Deadline: January 15, 2008. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 18:18:05 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ryan Daley Subject: Re: what Mario Vargas LLosa & Bob Marley have in common In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline My comment about Marley and Dylan notwithstanding, I must admit that I was a huge fan of both, and an even more avid fan of the former (my undergraduate entrance essay was written as a paean to Marley. So, needless to say, I was more than a huge Marley fan. I think it's very sad that his legacy left behind so much infighting and trading on his name. That being said, I think Marley was much more heroic than Dylan. Think about the December 1976 assassination attempt on his life (A ruling party behind it, supposedly because Marley was gaining such mass appeal that he represented a threat). Think about the fact that he was on the CIA's "Most Watched List," probably sharing space with Allende. Marley is so much more than a musician....he's a Fred Hampton, a Dylan, a Kind David all rolled into one, 5' 3" persona. Really a beautiful person. To retract or redact: I'm tired of the "Legend" idea of compilation and offering, of re-release and remasterings, of appropriation by surf communities everywhere, and not of the person that Marley was. I agree with Mairead that there seem to be levels of meaning in Marley's music. Just "Mr. Brown" alone is a beautiful piece about a crow that used to ride around town on the coffin during funerals...really weird stuff. "Mortal the downpressor, he'll lead the life of sad tomorrow..." A cutting, almost Biblical attempt at the universal in both its embrace of inherent violence of life (hexes, death, duppies, etc.) and the need to rise up and confront those doing the "downpressing." -Ryan On Dec 17, 2007 10:54 AM, Mairead Byrne wrote: > Yeah well I'm not tired of Bob Marley, as you can guess. I hope it > never happens, but there is a fixed body of work, even though the > Marleys & lots more continue to work with it, & out of it. I was very > interested to read your account, David, particularly what you say about > his way of speaking. I never saw Bob Marley perform but listen to > interviews --and am always stunned by the difference between his > speaking and singing voice. Even after years I have to still laugh in > incomprehension when I listen to him speak, there was absolutely no > compromise with that accent, man. But when he sings: every word is > absolutely clear, or nearly every word (he has such a great vocabulary), > even though the phrases don't always add up to absolute sense. But the > songs are packed dimensionally with other kinds of sense. One of things > I most admire about him is the absolute discipline of moving from those > early recordings, when he was 16, relentlessly through 20 years of > composition, activism, and performance. He made pretty good choices > with producers & labels, & then founding his own company Tuff Gong which > continues to release great material. One of the movies, Catch A Fire I > think, has extensive interviews with Chris Blackwell & Tony Platt, who > engineered Catch a Fire I think, the Wailers' first Island record: > that's really fascinating to see how the music was put together. Poetry > doesn't know or do anything like that. > Mairead > > >>> David Chirot 12/16/07 10:03 PM >>> > I saw Bob Marley perform as part of an day -night concert at Harvard > Stadium > MC by Dick Gregory--back in the late 70's=-- > (i stumbled on footage of it at you tube--) > > he was fantastic--on stage over two hours--and was part of the small > group > of person, about 7 or 8--allowed to sit facing him at a long cafeteria > type > table set up on the sidelines of the football field--and > talk/interview-- > > the only other musician i have ever met who had truly an Aura, a great > spirituality, commitment, energy and a sense also of fragility, like a > deer--was Don Cherry--they shared a world vision they had of /for/with > music-- > > Bob Marley as a musician are i think as yet underrated in what he > accomplished in moving from the early rude boys ska days and very > simple > tunes and covers--to the music he was forging later as his vision grew > greater and more powerful, more world embracing-- > > he was one of those very rare human beings in whom there is another > light--being radiated outwards--through him -into the world--a light of > great hope and great change--great beauty--great energy-- > > for days and days after meeting him it felt as though as some kind of > electric charge was still reverberating through and out of me > phsyucially > and in the spiritual sense-- > > he was able to communicate this to whole stadiums the world over as well > as > through hundreds of millions of radios, boom boxes, videos, movies, > images--the sound carries on throughout the world-- > > > He had a very soft speaking voice and gave very precise answers to > questions > and asked many of his own-- > > it wasn't like being in the presence of a "superstar" at all--a very > humble > person in the sense a deeply spiritual being is-- > > he didn't have any "self-absorption"--very rare indeed in anyone let > alone a > being in his place-- > > he radiated outward, into and through the world--the vibrations and > reverberations-- > > greater than the person --who was the bringer of them-- > > and brought others into a greater sphere as it were of the meaning of > being > on a "globe" together-- > > > > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 16:46:29 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cris cheek Subject: TNWK MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline hiya, Kirsten Lavers and myself are no longer working together and therefore after almost 10 years of making artwork the collaborative partnership TNWK is moot. From my perspective, as one of two collaborating partners, we cannot make work as TNWK again and the project falls. We have achieved a lot, but the impact of transatlantic distance has proved fatally corrosive and so this particular model of social, domestic, local <----> translocal, loving, creative collaborative "occurrences" and a complex late-twentieth <-----> early twenty-first century body of artistic practice is over. I hope that in years to come the work will still be discussed as a model of the possible. Thanks for your support and interest along the way. In the meantime, the website which details at least some of the work(s) . . . www.tnwk.net . . . will remain online, as and until someone else takes an interest in doing something with it. Unless some form of valedictory publication becomes possible our most recent piece, for Openport Chicago in February of this year, "Sheet of Paper" will be our last. c ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 16:09:55 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: TNWK In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit A pox on whatever the probably inevitable sur/subtext of this letter, Chris. Oblivious me knew not of this work. Talk about Viz Lit, the TNWK archives is a wonderful place. My belated congratulations to both of you on what was/is accomplished. Sometimes it's just a good time to stop. What's still there - separate or ensemble - will keep 'coming out in the wash'. I dare speculate! Cheery eyed in California! Stephen V http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ cris cheek wrote: hiya, Kirsten Lavers and myself are no longer working together and therefore after almost 10 years of making artwork the collaborative partnership TNWK is moot. From my perspective, as one of two collaborating partners, we cannot make work as TNWK again and the project falls. We have achieved a lot, but the impact of transatlantic distance has proved fatally corrosive and so this particular model of social, domestic, local <----> translocal, loving, creative collaborative "occurrences" and a complex late-twentieth <-----> early twenty-first century body of artistic practice is over. I hope that in years to come the work will still be discussed as a model of the possible. Thanks for your support and interest along the way. In the meantime, the website which details at least some of the work(s) . . . www.tnwk.net . . . will remain online, as and until someone else takes an interest in doing something with it. Unless some form of valedictory publication becomes possible our most recent piece, for Openport Chicago in February of this year, "Sheet of Paper" will be our last. c ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 20:00:59 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: TNWK In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit i particularly like the 'far beyond silicon fen' piece at http://thingsnotworthkeeping.com/thingsnotworthkeeping/farfromsiliconfen.htm l , chris. thanks for the interesting work. i'll link to 'far beyond silicon fen' at http://vispo.com/misc/links.htm . ja > Kirsten Lavers and myself are no longer working together > and therefore > after almost 10 years of making artwork the collaborative partnership > TNWK is moot. From my perspective, as one of two collaborating > partners, we > cannot make work as TNWK again and the project falls. We have achieved a > lot, but the impact of transatlantic distance has proved fatally corrosive > and so this particular model of social, domestic, local <----> translocal, > loving, creative collaborative "occurrences" and a complex late-twentieth > <-----> early twenty-first century body of artistic practice is over. I > hope that in years to come the work will still be discussed as a model of > the possible. > > Thanks for your support and interest along the way. In the meantime, > the website which details at least some of the work(s) . . . > www.tnwk.net . > . . will remain online, as and until someone else takes an > interest in doing > something with it. Unless some form of valedictory publication becomes > possible our most recent piece, for Openport Chicago in February of this > year, "Sheet of Paper" will be our last. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 01:05:03 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: eric unger Subject: Re: what Mario Vargas LLosa & Bob Marley have in common In-Reply-To: <9778b8630712171518q7b58a9ecxf07d6d8427af22fc@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline As great a musician and individual as Bob Marley may have been from his early days into the 70's, let us not forget that he became toward the end of his life an integral aspect of Kingston's coke-crazed disco scene. I'll always remember him for his best music. My favorite song is Waiting in Vain, but I also really like his early recordings with the Wailers. -Eric On 12/17/07, Ryan Daley wrote: > My comment about Marley and Dylan notwithstanding, I must admit that I was a > huge fan of both, and an even more avid fan of the former (my undergraduate > entrance essay was written as a paean to Marley. So, needless to say, I was > more than a huge Marley fan. I think it's very sad that his legacy left > behind so much infighting and trading on his name. That being said, I think > Marley was much more heroic than Dylan. Think about the December 1976 > assassination attempt on his life (A ruling party behind it, supposedly > because Marley was gaining such mass appeal that he represented a threat). > Think about the fact that he was on the CIA's "Most Watched List," probably > sharing space with Allende. Marley is so much more than a musician....he's a > Fred Hampton, a Dylan, a Kind David all rolled into one, 5' 3" persona. > Really a beautiful person. > > To retract or redact: I'm tired of the "Legend" idea of compilation and > offering, of re-release and remasterings, of appropriation by surf > communities everywhere, and not of the person that Marley was. > > I agree with Mairead that there seem to be levels of meaning in Marley's > music. Just "Mr. Brown" alone is a beautiful piece about a crow that used to > ride around town on the coffin during funerals...really weird stuff. "Mortal > the downpressor, he'll lead the life of sad tomorrow..." A cutting, almost > Biblical attempt at the universal in both its embrace of inherent violence > of life (hexes, death, duppies, etc.) and the need to rise up and confront > those doing the "downpressing." > > -Ryan > > On Dec 17, 2007 10:54 AM, Mairead Byrne wrote: > > > Yeah well I'm not tired of Bob Marley, as you can guess. I hope it > > never happens, but there is a fixed body of work, even though the > > Marleys & lots more continue to work with it, & out of it. I was very > > interested to read your account, David, particularly what you say about > > his way of speaking. I never saw Bob Marley perform but listen to > > interviews --and am always stunned by the difference between his > > speaking and singing voice. Even after years I have to still laugh in > > incomprehension when I listen to him speak, there was absolutely no > > compromise with that accent, man. But when he sings: every word is > > absolutely clear, or nearly every word (he has such a great vocabulary), > > even though the phrases don't always add up to absolute sense. But the > > songs are packed dimensionally with other kinds of sense. One of things > > I most admire about him is the absolute discipline of moving from those > > early recordings, when he was 16, relentlessly through 20 years of > > composition, activism, and performance. He made pretty good choices > > with producers & labels, & then founding his own company Tuff Gong which > > continues to release great material. One of the movies, Catch A Fire I > > think, has extensive interviews with Chris Blackwell & Tony Platt, who > > engineered Catch a Fire I think, the Wailers' first Island record: > > that's really fascinating to see how the music was put together. Poetry > > doesn't know or do anything like that. > > Mairead > > > > >>> David Chirot 12/16/07 10:03 PM >>> > > I saw Bob Marley perform as part of an day -night concert at Harvard > > Stadium > > MC by Dick Gregory--back in the late 70's=-- > > (i stumbled on footage of it at you tube--) > > > > he was fantastic--on stage over two hours--and was part of the small > > group > > of person, about 7 or 8--allowed to sit facing him at a long cafeteria > > type > > table set up on the sidelines of the football field--and > > talk/interview-- > > > > the only other musician i have ever met who had truly an Aura, a great > > spirituality, commitment, energy and a sense also of fragility, like a > > deer--was Don Cherry--they shared a world vision they had of /for/with > > music-- > > > > Bob Marley as a musician are i think as yet underrated in what he > > accomplished in moving from the early rude boys ska days and very > > simple > > tunes and covers--to the music he was forging later as his vision grew > > greater and more powerful, more world embracing-- > > > > he was one of those very rare human beings in whom there is another > > light--being radiated outwards--through him -into the world--a light of > > great hope and great change--great beauty--great energy-- > > > > for days and days after meeting him it felt as though as some kind of > > electric charge was still reverberating through and out of me > > phsyucially > > and in the spiritual sense-- > > > > he was able to communicate this to whole stadiums the world over as well > > as > > through hundreds of millions of radios, boom boxes, videos, movies, > > images--the sound carries on throughout the world-- > > > > > > He had a very soft speaking voice and gave very precise answers to > > questions > > and asked many of his own-- > > > > it wasn't like being in the presence of a "superstar" at all--a very > > humble > > person in the sense a deeply spiritual being is-- > > > > he didn't have any "self-absorption"--very rare indeed in anyone let > > alone a > > being in his place-- > > > > he radiated outward, into and through the world--the vibrations and > > reverberations-- > > > > greater than the person --who was the bringer of them-- > > > > and brought others into a greater sphere as it were of the meaning of > > being > > on a "globe" together-- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 07:39:17 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barry Schwabsky Subject: The Last Book MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit (This is a forward from the Art & Educatio mailing list) THE LAST BOOK (A Project by Luis Camnitzer, sponsored by the National Library of Spain) Open call for collaborations --------------------------------- The Last Book is a project to compile written as well as visual statements in which the authors may leave a legacy for future generations. The premise of the project is that book-based culture is coming to an end. On one hand, new technologies have introduced cultural mutations by transferring information to television and the Internet. On the other, there has been an increasing deterioration in the educational systems (as much in the First World as on the periphery) and a proliferation of religious and anti-intellectual fundamentalisms. The Last Book will serve as a time-capsule and leave a document and testament of our time, as well as a stimulus for a possible reactivation of culture in case of disappearance by negligence, catastrophe or conflagration. Contributions to this project will be limited to one page and may be e-mailed to lastbook.madrid@gmail.com or mailed to Luis Camnitzer, 124 Susquehanna Ave., Great Neck NY 11021, USA. In case of submission of originals, these will not be returned. The book will be exhibited as an installation at the entrance of the Museum of the National Library of Spain in Madrid at some point of 2008. Pages will be added during the duration of the project, with the intention of an eventual publication of an abridged version selected by Luis Camnitzer, curator of the project. The tentative deadline is March 31, 2008. This call is open and we hope that it will be resent to as many potential contributors as possible. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 06:33:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bobbie Lurie Subject: response from small segment of David's Chirot's post In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" David, my apologies for just taking this line out of all you wrote--apologies in advance if seen as abrupt interruption or disrespectful fragmentation etc. (apologies always necessary in advance in re: to any internet post from me now due to anticipation of backchannels/ it's 4:30 a.m./ flawed human time within this hour of imagined conversation when i am merely in a dark room with computer screen in front of me and the illusion of communication but i just want to say: this invasion from cyber space is actually actually actually--and yet we are removed from "actually" due to it...important to realize how much this invasion has altered everything in our existence--bobbi Many will think that perhaps this invasion from cyber space is "really" science-fiction, ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 04:41:55 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cris cheek Subject: Re: TNWK In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline thnx JIm "Far Beyond Silicon Fen" is the only piece on our site that stands on its own in the medium for which it was intended . . . namely the internet (altho i would have to add the internet at that point in time . . . without the kinds of download speeds we have now . . . hence the use of still rather than moving image . . . we would have preferred at some points to combine them. .. however etcetera). "Far from Silicon Fen" also makes use of flarf and has randomising elements in its swf bins . . . all the other work is documentation related to "live" occurrences or events circulated elsewhere c On Dec 17, 2007 9:00 PM, Jim Andrews wrote: > i particularly like the 'far beyond silicon fen' piece at > > http://thingsnotworthkeeping.com/thingsnotworthkeeping/farfromsiliconfen.htm > l , chris. > > thanks for the interesting work. i'll link to 'far beyond silicon fen' at > http://vispo.com/misc/links.htm . > > ja > > > Kirsten Lavers and myself are no longer working together > > and therefore > > after almost 10 years of making artwork the collaborative partnership > > TNWK is moot. From my perspective, as one of two collaborating > > partners, we > > cannot make work as TNWK again and the project falls. We have achieved a > > lot, but the impact of transatlantic distance has proved fatally > corrosive > > and so this particular model of social, domestic, local <----> > translocal, > > loving, creative collaborative "occurrences" and a complex > late-twentieth > > <-----> early twenty-first century body of artistic practice is over. I > > hope that in years to come the work will still be discussed as a model > of > > the possible. > > > > Thanks for your support and interest along the way. In the > meantime, > > the website which details at least some of the work(s) . . . > > www.tnwk.net . > > . . will remain online, as and until someone else takes an > > interest in doing > > something with it. Unless some form of valedictory publication becomes > > possible our most recent piece, for Openport Chicago in February of this > > year, "Sheet of Paper" will be our last. > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 07:46:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: what Mario Vargas LLosa & Bob Marley have in common Comments: To: eric.unger@GMAIL.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Not only did I not forget this, I never even knew it! And now I know it, I will no doubt forget it. Until I play it over & over in my car for the next 10 years. That's the only way I remember stuff. Mairead >>> eric unger 12/18/07 2:05 AM >>> As great a musician and individual as Bob Marley may have been from his early days into the 70's, let us not forget that he became toward the end of his life an integral aspect of Kingston's coke-crazed disco scene. I'll always remember him for his best music. My favorite song is Waiting in Vain, but I also really like his early recordings with the Wailers. -Eric On 12/17/07, Ryan Daley wrote: > My comment about Marley and Dylan notwithstanding, I must admit that I was a > huge fan of both, and an even more avid fan of the former (my undergraduate > entrance essay was written as a paean to Marley. So, needless to say, I was > more than a huge Marley fan. I think it's very sad that his legacy left > behind so much infighting and trading on his name. That being said, I think > Marley was much more heroic than Dylan. Think about the December 1976 > assassination attempt on his life (A ruling party behind it, supposedly > because Marley was gaining such mass appeal that he represented a threat). > Think about the fact that he was on the CIA's "Most Watched List," probably > sharing space with Allende. Marley is so much more than a musician....he's a > Fred Hampton, a Dylan, a Kind David all rolled into one, 5' 3" persona. > Really a beautiful person. > > To retract or redact: I'm tired of the "Legend" idea of compilation and > offering, of re-release and remasterings, of appropriation by surf > communities everywhere, and not of the person that Marley was. > > I agree with Mairead that there seem to be levels of meaning in Marley's > music. Just "Mr. Brown" alone is a beautiful piece about a crow that used to > ride around town on the coffin during funerals...really weird stuff. "Mortal > the downpressor, he'll lead the life of sad tomorrow..." A cutting, almost > Biblical attempt at the universal in both its embrace of inherent violence > of life (hexes, death, duppies, etc.) and the need to rise up and confront > those doing the "downpressing." > > -Ryan > > On Dec 17, 2007 10:54 AM, Mairead Byrne wrote: > > > Yeah well I'm not tired of Bob Marley, as you can guess. I hope it > > never happens, but there is a fixed body of work, even though the > > Marleys & lots more continue to work with it, & out of it. I was very > > interested to read your account, David, particularly what you say about > > his way of speaking. I never saw Bob Marley perform but listen to > > interviews --and am always stunned by the difference between his > > speaking and singing voice. Even after years I have to still laugh in > > incomprehension when I listen to him speak, there was absolutely no > > compromise with that accent, man. But when he sings: every word is > > absolutely clear, or nearly every word (he has such a great vocabulary), > > even though the phrases don't always add up to absolute sense. But the > > songs are packed dimensionally with other kinds of sense. One of things > > I most admire about him is the absolute discipline of moving from those > > early recordings, when he was 16, relentlessly through 20 years of > > composition, activism, and performance. He made pretty good choices > > with producers & labels, & then founding his own company Tuff Gong which > > continues to release great material. One of the movies, Catch A Fire I > > think, has extensive interviews with Chris Blackwell & Tony Platt, who > > engineered Catch a Fire I think, the Wailers' first Island record: > > that's really fascinating to see how the music was put together. Poetry > > doesn't know or do anything like that. > > Mairead > > > > >>> David Chirot 12/16/07 10:03 PM >>> > > I saw Bob Marley perform as part of an day -night concert at Harvard > > Stadium > > MC by Dick Gregory--back in the late 70's=-- > > (i stumbled on footage of it at you tube--) > > > > he was fantastic--on stage over two hours--and was part of the small > > group > > of person, about 7 or 8--allowed to sit facing him at a long cafeteria > > type > > table set up on the sidelines of the football field--and > > talk/interview-- > > > > the only other musician i have ever met who had truly an Aura, a great > > spirituality, commitment, energy and a sense also of fragility, like a > > deer--was Don Cherry--they shared a world vision they had of /for/with > > music-- > > > > Bob Marley as a musician are i think as yet underrated in what he > > accomplished in moving from the early rude boys ska days and very > > simple > > tunes and covers--to the music he was forging later as his vision grew > > greater and more powerful, more world embracing-- > > > > he was one of those very rare human beings in whom there is another > > light--being radiated outwards--through him -into the world--a light of > > great hope and great change--great beauty--great energy-- > > > > for days and days after meeting him it felt as though as some kind of > > electric charge was still reverberating through and out of me > > phsyucially > > and in the spiritual sense-- > > > > he was able to communicate this to whole stadiums the world over as well > > as > > through hundreds of millions of radios, boom boxes, videos, movies, > > images--the sound carries on throughout the world-- > > > > > > He had a very soft speaking voice and gave very precise answers to > > questions > > and asked many of his own-- > > > > it wasn't like being in the presence of a "superstar" at all--a very > > humble > > person in the sense a deeply spiritual being is-- > > > > he didn't have any "self-absorption"--very rare indeed in anyone let > > alone a > > being in his place-- > > > > he radiated outward, into and through the world--the vibrations and > > reverberations-- > > > > greater than the person --who was the bringer of them-- > > > > and brought others into a greater sphere as it were of the meaning of > > being > > on a "globe" together-- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 07:53:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: new materials at MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed new materials at http://www.alansondheim.org/biog.txt thanks to Barbara Caspar's ACKER, a documentary work-in-progress shown last night at MOMA and thanks to Marcia Resnick insight ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 11:43:17 -0400 Reply-To: david@badnoiseproductions.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Applegate Subject: Bob Marley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Wanted to chime in on the Bob Marley discussion - For all fans & casual admirers of Marley & reggae in general, I must recommend the album Bob Marley & The Wailers: SOUL REVOLUTION 1 & 2 released on Trojan, recorded in 1969, produced by Lee "Scratch" Perry - disc 1 has the vocal mixes, disc 2 the instrumentals. Beautiful wicked stuff to help conquer all duppies - ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 12:15:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Al Filreis Subject: announcing "PoemTalk" (new podcast) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Kelly Writers House, PennSound and the Poetry Foundation are pleased to announce "PoemTalk," a new podcast series. Four colleagues in the world of poetry collaborate on a close (but not too close) reading of a single poem. Each episode is 20-25 minutes. [] program notes: http://poemtalkatkwh.blogspot.com/ [] ITunes: http://poemtalkatkwh.blogspot.com/2007/12/were-on-itunes.html [] at the Poetry Foundation: http://www.poetryfoundation.org/journal/audio.html [] RSS feed (subscribe): http://www.poetryfoundation.org/podcast_poemtalk.xml ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 09:39:38 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: The Mendicant=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=92s?= Rhetoric Comments: To: webartery , rhizome , netbehaviour MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The heart pauses at the flicker of a disposessed lighter Halfway through supple mendicant the only evidence for which is definition That we could imagine some sorta simultaneity is proof of the rhetoric Showing you my scars of periods my bleak semi- colons Everywhere you would ever want to pause is in my skin Lewis LaCook Director of Web Development Abstract Outlooks Media 440-989-6481 http://www.abstractoutlooks.com Abstract Outlooks Media - Premium Web Hosting, Development, and Art Photography http://www.lewislacook.org lewislacook.org - New Media Poetry and Poetics http://www.xanaxpop.org Xanax Pop - the Poetry of Lewis LaCook ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 10:37:44 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Witherup: Poet in Residence MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bill Witherup's new appointment: http://www.wpsr.org/artist-in-residence/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 10:40:37 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Hugh Behm-Steinberg Subject: Librettos In-Reply-To: <741976.45487.qm@web86013.mail.ird.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all, I've been invited to write a libretto and, never having written one before, I was wondering if others on this list had any advice. So far I've been told: 1. Use lots of vowels -- maximize assonance. 2. Repeat a lot. 3. Be short -- don't try to cram too much information or exposition in. Mostly I'm concerned with musciality (there's that theme again) -- what works to make something more singable. Many thanks, Hugh Behm-Steinberg --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 14:19:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Clements Subject: Contact info for Black Square Books? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Brian Clements, Editor Firewheel Editions/Sentence: A Journal of Prose Poetics ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 12:18:27 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: "Wrack" image & Ruins, Wrecks & Runes//& a flickr gallery & essay link MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I was interested in the comments re Peter's "Wrack" image and the relation of the virtual with "natural" or "organic" language. In his monumental five decade long labor of love, the 18th Century Natural History, Buffon writes that perhaps the scaly tail of the beaver is due to its eating fish. Which, "quite naturally," prompted some wag to query in that case, how long might be M Buffon's tail?--if, of course, he did eat fish!-- In the "Language" section of "Nature" Emerson writes: 1. Words are signs of natural facts. ("And ain't that a natural born fact, Jack," as the saying goes.) 2. Particular natural facts are symbols of particular spiritual facts. (The fish in Peter's image being, say, Pisces, or the Christian symbol of the fish, St Peter as a fisher of men, or an allegory of the fish dying of polluted waters, or a sign for Fish Fry Fridays--) 3. Nature is the symbol of spirit. (Completing Emerson's Transcendental and redeeming version of the dreaded Jesuitical machinations known as the syllogism.) Very quickly one moves from natural facts to words as their signs, to "particular" natural facts being symbols of spiritual facts and then to nature as a symbol of spirit. The movement from the natural to the spiritual, from signs to symbols in a peculiar way seems not unlike what one might call a "Transcendentalism of the Virtual." Or, perhaps, a Transcendentalism in Reverse, in the way that Robert Smithson, after Nabokov, wrote of construction sites as "ruins in reverse." One begins--in this reversal-- from the Transcendental "spirit"--the Virtual Image--Virtuality being not unlike "spirit" in the sense that is "there" via symbols (digital codes)--and since particular spiritual facts are symbols of particular natural facts--(whose signs are words)--then--"nature is the symbol of spirit." In other words, the world is a symbol of the virtual. Words as "signs of natural facts" which are "spiritual facts" which are the turning of nature into the symbol of the spiritual--are both "signs of natural facts" and symbols of the spirit. Language and nature are symbols of spirit--or, Virtuality. Spirit is Virtuality. Virtuality is spirituality, and so, in a way, becomes, is, also virtue (The shared etymology of the Latin virtus.) Virtuality as virtue, as another form of the spirituality which redeems the "fallen world" by turning it into a "symbol." This has a strange effect on the experience of, perception of, the world, as it no longer exists, but is now world-as-symbol. For, if it is a symbol, this means the world is not "real." The world-as-symbol becomes a place of tourism for the "virtual eye"-- taking the Surrealists' trips to the flea markets to new heights. There are tours now for persons to take in which they are shown the "signage" and other "symbols" of the virtual that exist in their neighborhoods. This form of perception is considered a "virtue." The poet Charles Bernstein goes to China and comes back with --what else--but a great many photos of signs and "symbols." The disconnect between the English "mistranslations" from the Chinese is a "symbolic joke" and illustrative of one's own virtue as a perceiver of signs and symbols. (Though i always wonder if the Chinese might not actually be saying something like--well, we shall leave that to the reader's imagination.) By virtue, so to speak, of this effect of the Virtual, what is seen in the world are only those things which are signs and symbols of the symbolic world of the Virtual. What one sees in the world is a reflection of the Virtual. That is, one recognizes as "real" only those things which one knows from the Virtual. In a sense the tours of one's neighborhood as a trove of signage and symbols are a form of training in this recognition of the Virtual "real" and its virtues. Yet what of those who live, pagans, beyond the pale of the virtues of Virtual "access?" One speaks of the "dependence on foreign oil"--one hears little about the "dependence on electricity" in terms of access to the "real" as it is realized in the Virtual. Are those who exist beyond electricity's reach those are without virtue? This would seem to be the case for those affected by the following events: in Rwanda, when the massacres were to being, all cables, telephone lines, any electric access, was completely cut off. Once sealed from the real Virtual world, the now Virtual "disappeareds" were removed from the world as being without virtue. In Myamar, protests were followed by the cut-off with the outside world of cable and phone access. In the world's largest ever prison, already Walled off from the world, a "refugee Camp," the Palestinians of Gaza are disappearing from virtue by virtue of the cut off of electricity. When all the lights go out--where will they be? If one were to go about cutting off electricity, chopping off cables, pulling plugs, denying on line access to citizens for various reasons--controlling who is part of the Virtual and virtuous world--one might wonder if part of the possibility of this is to inculcate ever more "willing suspension of disbelief" in the Virtual and its virtues in the denizens of the Virtual. For then will they not ever more willingly accede to the "transparency" of a new Transparent Eyeball in reverse, the Panoptical Eye of instantaneous "real time" surveillance of everyone and access to everyone's files, images, messages, transactions in order to keep "secure" the virtue of the Virtual? The threat of the loss of the Virtual, of being a part of the virtues of the Virtual, may become a new form of discipline. And, desirous to not lose one's sense of Virtual Reality, might not one then accede to entering into a world wide prison? To "die" outside the Virtual--or to "Live" as a prisoner. Along those cheerful lines--Drew Kunz recently invited me to a group involved with thinking on the artistic developments through time taking the grid as a proposition for work. Personally i don't like grids at all(even though one benefits much of course from the virtues of the electronic grids--) and personal experience of them has done nothing to to tarnish the dislike. Yet paradoxically, due to this dislike of grids and what they may men in various circumstances, a great deal of my work has made use of them, far more than one realized. This flickr gallery includes works made with overt and explicit as well as more covert and implicit grids. Many are from a series of "Walls" which will be forthcoming in a book from Otoliths. The examples here are often of language that is affected by violence, fire, the wear and tear of Time, the "dirtiness" of non-Virtual and virtuous existence. Attached is an essay "Hidden in Plain Sight" which appeared in Otoliths which discuss the impact since childhood of construction sites, crow's nests and found materials on my work and methods. The essay has a link to another short piece re Bob Cobbing, my friend and mentor. Of the two of us jw curry wrote that, outside the division of "Clean" and "Dirty" Schools of Visual Poetry, there was the "Quick'nDirty" School of Cobbing and Chirot. Bob Cobbing was one of the great geniuses and artists of the 20th Century. He and Kurt Schwitters, with Dubuffet, are for me the three most important artists of their times. I see their work and what i continue on with as a kind of guerilla art of survival in the hidden in plain site/sight/cite of the real world, as opposed to existing solely in the Virtual world which is not real, but a reflection, though its effects are real. This kind of work can be done anytime any where with next to nothing at all except the everything that is here and there, there, there--found all around one, right at hand. It is "born" of necessity, the Motherfucker of Invention. here is the link for the essay: the-otolith.blogspot.com/2006/07/*david*-*baptiste*-*chirot*-*hidden*-in-* plain*.html and here the flickr link http://www.flickr.com/send?nsid=8237952@N06&set=72157603474988121 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 13:09:05 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lea Graham Subject: Ecuadorian Short Fiction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am taking a group of students to Ecuador and the Galapagos Island as a part of a short term course. I am looking for short fiction by recent Ecuadorian authors in translation (Spanish to English). We will already be reading some novels, the primary text being Jorge Icaza's *Hausipungo* (The Villagers), but I've had no luck in finding shorter works in translations. Recommendations? Much obliged. Lea ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 14:16:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Alexander Subject: Re: Librettos In-Reply-To: <642784.20464.qm@web36509.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Hugh, I have done this a couple of times, and I'd also say write with an idea that you are willing to have your work cut, possibly arranged & re-arranged, phrased repeated, etc., i.e. consider the composer a co- writer, and let her or him do a lot of the work in terms of making things "singable" and "musical" in whatever sense she or he needs. One of my best experiences working this way involved the composer, and a choreographer, and the composer, all having input into the way the final libretto worked, with some possibilities for improvisation in each performance as well. charles charles alexander chax press chax@theriver.com 650 e. ninth st. tucson arizona 8505 520 620 1626 On Dec 18, 2007, at 11:40 AM, Hugh Behm-Steinberg wrote: > Hi all, > > I've been invited to write a libretto and, never having written one > before, I was wondering if others on this list had any advice. So > far I've been told: > > 1. Use lots of vowels -- maximize assonance. > 2. Repeat a lot. > 3. Be short -- don't try to cram too much information or > exposition in. > > Mostly I'm concerned with musciality (there's that theme again) -- > what works to make something more singable. > > Many thanks, > > Hugh Behm-Steinberg > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. > Try it now. > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 13:22:02 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Fwd: Songs of Love and Murder, Silenced by Killings - New York Times In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline A hair raising article and not unrelated to reggae music's history- (when i interviewed Peter Tosh we talked five hours in a tiny locked room guarded by armed members of his entourage, trained also in martial arts, and there was extra security at the doors leading to the little room where those guards were--and further off,, in the entrance to the place--we were in the basement of a cinema--underneath the stage--some police-- less than a year later he was dead--shot during a robbery in his home--) a great many reggae musicians were killed for political and also gang related reasons-- gangs often connected with narco-trafficking-- connected with the music business (all of them--politics-drugs-gangs-business--entangled with each other--) as anyone who has worked "in the industry" can tell you-- a much "dirtier" and more dangerous world than the cliched hymns to the liberatory libidinous "revolutionary" aspects of "sex, drugs and rock'n'roll" (aka prostitution, dead end addiction, violence) ever let on about-- http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/18/world/americas/18mexico.html?_r=1&th&emc=th&oref=slogin--- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 16:37:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: Librettos In-Reply-To: <642784.20464.qm@web36509.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT No ee vowels on high notes! Marcus On 18 Dec 2007 at 10:40, Hugh Behm-Steinberg wrote: > Hi all, > > I've been invited to write a libretto and, never having written one > before, I was wondering if others on this list had any advice. So > far I've been told: > > 1. Use lots of vowels -- maximize assonance. > 2. Repeat a lot. > 3. Be short -- don't try to cram too much information or exposition > in. > > Mostly I'm concerned with musciality (there's that theme again) -- > what works to make something more singable. > > Many thanks, > > Hugh Behm-Steinberg > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. > Try it now. > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.4/1188 - Release Date: > 12/17/2007 2:13 PM > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 11:57:26 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve russell Subject: What Rod Smith & Philip Larkin do not have in common MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit People can get pretty dogmatic concerning poetry. & they don't have to necessarily know what they're talking about. consider: I'm always carrying a few books. I had a copy of Philip Larkin's "High Windows" & Rod Smith's "Deed" with me at the cafe, both very good books. My friend picked up the Larkin, read a few poems, than held the book up, exclaiming "This is Good."He read from "Deed," held the book up, then slammed it down, exclaiming "This is junk." I didn't get upset. I realized that everyone in D.C. considers him or herself an expert on just about anything. My friend, who doesn't know shit about poetry and is still my friend, seemed to feel he was a poetry expert. I've learned not to try to defend a book I know is good to someone who says otherwise when the other person doesn't have the vocabulary needed to understand the book in question. --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 16:57:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Librettos In-Reply-To: <642784.20464.qm@web36509.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I'd talk to the composer. But it couldn't hurt to read a few American libretti or song settings, and listen to how they sing--Stein/ Thompson's Four Saints in Three Acts, Agee/Barber Knoxville, Summer of 1915, for instance, both lyrical and tonal, which your composer might not be. Get his/her recommendations. Mark At 01:40 PM 12/18/2007, you wrote: >Hi all, > >I've been invited to write a libretto and, never having written one >before, I was wondering if others on this list had any advice. So >far I've been told: > >1. Use lots of vowels -- maximize assonance. >2. Repeat a lot. >3. Be short -- don't try to cram too much information or exposition in. > >Mostly I'm concerned with musciality (there's that theme again) -- >what works to make something more singable. > >Many thanks, > >Hugh Behm-Steinberg > > >--------------------------------- >Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! >Mobile. Try it now. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 14:04:08 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve russell Subject: baby boomers & Zepplin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Seems good ole Led Zep had a successful bash there in London. I like it when musicians old enough to be my parents get together & rock. I grew up with Zep. I've haven't discovered anyone who dislikes that band. There must be a few Zep haters out there. Damn, this is a Poetry listserv. I'll try to get back on page. --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 17:17:45 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Hadbawnik Subject: Winter Issue of Front Porch Journal now out MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hello The winter issue of Front Porch journal has just come out. http://www.frontporchjournal.com/index.asp Poetry section features Valerie Coulton, Blake Butler, Brian Henry, Jess Wigent, and Sarah Sloat; Interviews with Brian Henry and Charles Simic. Reviews of new work by Valerie Coulton, Bill Knott. We are now accepting submissions for the Spring Issue, which comes out the Ides of March. Happy holidays everyone --David Hadbawnik ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 14:49:43 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: TNWK In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > (altho > i would have to add the internet at that point in time . . . without the > kinds of download speeds we have now . . . hence the use of still rather > than moving image . . . we would have preferred at some points to combine > them. .. however etcetera). I didn't feel it needed video at all. There's so much video on the net. More interesting without video, trying to do something that isn't so g(l)utted and is coming to grips with net media rather than shovelling old media into a new environment. I know people like video but they also like big macs. ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 18:18:39 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ken Rumble Subject: Elsewhere Artist & Writer Residencies for 2008 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Elsewhere Artist Collaborative 2008 residencies for artists, writers, and cultural producers Elsewhere, an arts production site and experimental museum in downtown Greensboro, NC, is seeking artists, writers, and cultural producers for residencies during its Spring, Summer, and Fall 2008 seasons. Set within a former thrift store housing a 58-year collection of American surplus, thrift, and antiques, Elsewhere invites experimental creators to utilize th= e immense collection of objects to pursue site-specific material, conceptual, and/or technologically-based projects. Elsewhere's building=97two storefron= ts on the ground floor, a 14-room boarding house on the second, and warehouse on the third=97provides dynamic architectures for the creation and installation of works. Artists live and work within transforming installations; these interactive environments become platforms for re-conceptualizing the theory and practice of art-making as an ongoing process of exchange in community. Experimenting with museum-as-medium withi= n a store where nothing is for sale, Elsewhere offers an unparalleled framework for art practices, processes, and productions outside the traditional gallery, museum, and residency systems. The complete call for artists, residency brochure (PDF), and application deadlines are available at http://www.elsewhereelsewhere.org/residencies.html. Email George Scheer= , Collaborative Director, at residencies@elsewhereelsewhere.org for an application. DEADLINES Spring: April 1st to May 31st (final deadline January 25th 5pm) Summer: June 1st to August 31st (final deadline February 22nd 5pm) Fall: September 1st to October 31st (final deadline May 23rd 5pm) --=20 Check out my new book Key Bridge: http://www.carolinawrenpress.org/books.html And I'm on the road giving readings!: Portland, OR: Sunday, December 9, 7:30 pm Reviews of Key Bridge: Ron Silliman: http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2007/04/i-know-ken-rumble-originally-from-h= is.html Kevin Killian: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/0932112544/ref=3Dcm_cr_dp= _all_top/002-7537401-5750437?ie=3DUTF8&n=3D283155&s=3Dbooks#customerReviews ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 18:46:10 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ryan Daley Subject: Re: what Mario Vargas LLosa & Bob Marley have in common In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline What function does one perform as an "integral aspect"? I wouldn't assume that drug involvement = bad, as I'm sure Dylan could attest.... -Ryan On Dec 18, 2007 7:46 AM, Mairead Byrne wrote: > Not only did I not forget this, I never even knew it! And now I know > it, I will no doubt forget it. Until I play it over & over in my car > for the next 10 years. That's the only way I remember stuff. > Mairead > > >>> eric unger 12/18/07 2:05 AM >>> > As great a musician and individual as Bob Marley may have been from > his early days into the 70's, let us not forget that he became toward > the end of his life an integral aspect of Kingston's coke-crazed disco > scene. I'll always remember him for his best music. My favorite song > is Waiting in Vain, but I also really like his early recordings with > the Wailers. > > -Eric > > On 12/17/07, Ryan Daley wrote: > > My comment about Marley and Dylan notwithstanding, I must admit that I > was a > > huge fan of both, and an even more avid fan of the former (my > undergraduate > > entrance essay was written as a paean to Marley. So, needless to say, > I was > > more than a huge Marley fan. I think it's very sad that his legacy > left > > behind so much infighting and trading on his name. That being said, I > think > > Marley was much more heroic than Dylan. Think about the December 1976 > > assassination attempt on his life (A ruling party behind it, > supposedly > > because Marley was gaining such mass appeal that he represented a > threat). > > Think about the fact that he was on the CIA's "Most Watched List," > probably > > sharing space with Allende. Marley is so much more than a > musician....he's a > > Fred Hampton, a Dylan, a Kind David all rolled into one, 5' 3" > persona. > > Really a beautiful person. > > > > To retract or redact: I'm tired of the "Legend" idea of compilation > and > > offering, of re-release and remasterings, of appropriation by surf > > communities everywhere, and not of the person that Marley was. > > > > I agree with Mairead that there seem to be levels of meaning in > Marley's > > music. Just "Mr. Brown" alone is a beautiful piece about a crow that > used to > > ride around town on the coffin during funerals...really weird stuff. > "Mortal > > the downpressor, he'll lead the life of sad tomorrow..." A cutting, > almost > > Biblical attempt at the universal in both its embrace of inherent > violence > > of life (hexes, death, duppies, etc.) and the need to rise up and > confront > > those doing the "downpressing." > > > > -Ryan > > > > On Dec 17, 2007 10:54 AM, Mairead Byrne wrote: > > > > > Yeah well I'm not tired of Bob Marley, as you can guess. I hope it > > > never happens, but there is a fixed body of work, even though the > > > Marleys & lots more continue to work with it, & out of it. I was > very > > > interested to read your account, David, particularly what you say > about > > > his way of speaking. I never saw Bob Marley perform but listen to > > > interviews --and am always stunned by the difference between his > > > speaking and singing voice. Even after years I have to still laugh > in > > > incomprehension when I listen to him speak, there was absolutely no > > > compromise with that accent, man. But when he sings: every word is > > > absolutely clear, or nearly every word (he has such a great > vocabulary), > > > even though the phrases don't always add up to absolute sense. But > the > > > songs are packed dimensionally with other kinds of sense. One of > things > > > I most admire about him is the absolute discipline of moving from > those > > > early recordings, when he was 16, relentlessly through 20 years of > > > composition, activism, and performance. He made pretty good choices > > > with producers & labels, & then founding his own company Tuff Gong > which > > > continues to release great material. One of the movies, Catch A > Fire I > > > think, has extensive interviews with Chris Blackwell & Tony Platt, > who > > > engineered Catch a Fire I think, the Wailers' first Island record: > > > that's really fascinating to see how the music was put together. > Poetry > > > doesn't know or do anything like that. > > > Mairead > > > > > > >>> David Chirot 12/16/07 10:03 PM >>> > > > I saw Bob Marley perform as part of an day -night concert at Harvard > > > Stadium > > > MC by Dick Gregory--back in the late 70's=-- > > > (i stumbled on footage of it at you tube--) > > > > > > he was fantastic--on stage over two hours--and was part of the small > > > group > > > of person, about 7 or 8--allowed to sit facing him at a long > cafeteria > > > type > > > table set up on the sidelines of the football field--and > > > talk/interview-- > > > > > > the only other musician i have ever met who had truly an Aura, a > great > > > spirituality, commitment, energy and a sense also of fragility, like > a > > > deer--was Don Cherry--they shared a world vision they had of > /for/with > > > music-- > > > > > > Bob Marley as a musician are i think as yet underrated in what he > > > accomplished in moving from the early rude boys ska days and very > > > simple > > > tunes and covers--to the music he was forging later as his vision > grew > > > greater and more powerful, more world embracing-- > > > > > > he was one of those very rare human beings in whom there is another > > > light--being radiated outwards--through him -into the world--a light > of > > > great hope and great change--great beauty--great energy-- > > > > > > for days and days after meeting him it felt as though as some kind > of > > > electric charge was still reverberating through and out of me > > > phsyucially > > > and in the spiritual sense-- > > > > > > he was able to communicate this to whole stadiums the world over as > well > > > as > > > through hundreds of millions of radios, boom boxes, videos, movies, > > > images--the sound carries on throughout the world-- > > > > > > > > > He had a very soft speaking voice and gave very precise answers to > > > questions > > > and asked many of his own-- > > > > > > it wasn't like being in the presence of a "superstar" at all--a very > > > humble > > > person in the sense a deeply spiritual being is-- > > > > > > he didn't have any "self-absorption"--very rare indeed in anyone let > > > alone a > > > being in his place-- > > > > > > he radiated outward, into and through the world--the vibrations and > > > reverberations-- > > > > > > greater than the person --who was the bringer of them-- > > > > > > and brought others into a greater sphere as it were of the meaning > of > > > being > > > on a "globe" together-- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 11:28:26 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: Librettos In-Reply-To: <642784.20464.qm@web36509.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hi Hugh There are no hard and fast rules. It all depends on what kind of work you're making, musically speaking, and what kind of collaboration you have with the composer. Libretti can include speaking, of course, and sprachgesung. I'd listen to a bunch of operas - Glass and Berg might be good to start. When Berg did Woyczek, for instance, he just used Buchner's play. Glass used a bunch of numbers for Einstein on the Beach. Anything is possible. But given that: I've written three libretti, and these are my Handy Hints for Aspiring Librettists: It's important to remember that singing something takes much longer than saying something. As a rule of thumb, around three times as long. So try reading your work out loud three times, it will give you some idea of the time it takes. If your tongue stumbles over something, change it. Polysyllables and so on are worth avoiding unless you have a good reason to have them there. Avoid recitative at all costs. If you want to use a chorus, _think very hard about what it means_. Choruses can often be very silly in modern operas. And leave any repetitions up to the composer's discretion. Try to think about the theatricality of what you're making. Which can include drama but not necessarily. And linked to this, don't waste stage time. An hour-long opera will probably have a libretto 20 pages long (in short lines) so that doesn't give you much room to move. Remember that composers and opera companies often consider librettists as junior partners in the art. (Opera directors don't necessarily, but it's a weird world). Cheers Alison On Dec 19, 2007 5:40 AM, Hugh Behm-Steinberg wrote: > Hi all, > > I've been invited to write a libretto and, never having written one > before, I was wondering if others on this list had any advice. So far I've > been told: > > 1. Use lots of vowels -- maximize assonance. > 2. Repeat a lot. > 3. Be short -- don't try to cram too much information or exposition in. > > Mostly I'm concerned with musciality (there's that theme again) -- what > works to make something more singable. > > Many thanks, > > Hugh Behm-Steinberg > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it > now. > -- Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 20:04:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Ciccariello Subject: Re: "Wrack" image & Ruins, Wrecks & Runes//& a flickr gallery & essay link In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline David, I find all this fascinating. Words or letters with programmed meaning exist regardless of context, or lack of context. With the objectification of letters/words/poem, the poetic object begins to achieve virtual self, yet lacks any form of utilitarianism and is considered useless, without purpose. Wracks, wrecks, ruins by common standards lose function, usefulness, and even the right to exist. Yet true possibility, marvel and surprise lurk there in the fragmented, the impracticable, the unfeasible and the unknowable. The Flickr link is superb! - Peter Ciccariello http://uncommon-vision.blogspot.com/ On Dec 18, 2007 3:18 PM, David Chirot wrote: > I was interested in the comments re Peter's "Wrack" image and the relation > of the virtual with "natural" or "organic" language. > > here is the link for the essay: > the-otolith.blogspot.com/2006/07/*david*-*baptiste*-*chirot*-*hidden*-in-* > plain*.html > > and here the flickr link > http://www.flickr.com/send?nsid=8237952@N06&set=72157603474988121 > > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 20:17:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Ciccariello Subject: Re: [webartery] The Mendicant=?WINDOWS-1252?Q?=92s?= Rhetoric Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com Comments: cc: rhizome , netbehaviour In-Reply-To: <41141.87000.qm@web35513.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Full of great lines... I love this! A favorite - " Showing you my scars of periods my bleak semi- colons" - Peter Ciccariello On Dec 18, 2007 12:39 PM, Lewis LaCook wrote: > > > The heart pauses at the flicker > of a disposessed lighter > > Halfway through > supple mendicant > the only evidence for which > is definition > > That we could imagine > some sorta simultaneity > > is proof of the rhetoric > Showing you my scars > of periods my bleak semi- > colons > > Everywhere you would ever want to pause > is in my skin > > Lewis LaCook > Director of Web Development > Abstract Outlooks Media > > 440-989-6481 > > http://www.abstractoutlooks.com > Abstract Outlooks Media - Premium Web Hosting, Development, and Art > Photography > > http://www.lewislacook.org > lewislacook.org - New Media Poetry and Poetics > > http://www.xanaxpop.org > Xanax Pop - the Poetry of Lewis LaCook > > __________________________________________________________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > __._,_.___ Messages in this topic > ( > 1) Reply (via web post) > | Start > a new topic > > Messages| > Files| > Photos| > Links| > Database| > Polls| > Members| > Calendar > [image: Yahoo! Groups] > Change settings via the Web(Yahoo! ID required) > Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest| Switch > format to Traditional > Visit Your Group > | Yahoo! > Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe > > Visit Your Group > > Y! Entertainment > > World of Star Wars > > Rediscover the force. > > Explore now. > Need traffic? > > Drive customers > > With search ads > > on Yahoo! > Parenting Zone > > on Yahoo! Groups > > Your one stop for > > parenting groups. > . > > __,_._,___ > -- NEW RELEASE UNCOMMON VISION - The Art of Peter Ciccariello http://uncommon-vision.blogspot.com/ 66 pp. 42 color plates. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 18:02:23 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Pix, Haptix, Signage, texts - New de Blog Comments: To: Poetryetc , UK POETRY Comments: cc: Amy Trachtenberg MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ In a season of high anxiety, flip outs, bad humor and some precious, lovely moments 'to boot' welcome to take in some genuinely interesting - sometimes bizarre- Street pix, commentary, signage & Haptix: A Sunday Walk with Andrew Moss and Chip Lord on 24th Street in San Franciso’s Mission District The Yellow Family Prepares For Global Warming - Rising Ocean Levels & All of That “Double Haptic” for Beverly Dahlen and Victoria Hack Jeans Contained / Jeans Suspended - Valencia Street Windows - Some local characters As usual, your comments appreciated. Otherwise, Merry Holidays. Enjoy all those people one sees once a year, and (my advice) remind yourself, it's only once a year! Stephen Vincent http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 16:37:50 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabrielle Welford Subject: Re: baby boomers & Zepplin In-Reply-To: <486090.75072.qm@web52411.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT well.... not hate but... i saw them at the albert hall in the early 70s and didn't like them. could've been that i was way up at the top of the building far far away. but maybe i just didn't like them. i like sandy denny with them... :-) On Tue, 18 Dec 2007, steve russell wrote: > Seems good ole Led Zep had a successful bash there in London. I like it > when musicians old enough to be my parents get together & rock. I grew > up with Zep. I've haven't discovered anyone who dislikes that band. > There must be a few Zep haters out there. > > Damn, this is a Poetry listserv. I'll try to get back on page. > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 19:42:55 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cris cheek Subject: Re: TNWK In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline well constraints 'r' us and i like them too but i don't like big macs and i do like video guess it's hybridity ;) happy holidays On Dec 18, 2007 3:49 PM, Jim Andrews wrote: > > (altho > > i would have to add the internet at that point in time . . . without the > > kinds of download speeds we have now . . . hence the use of still rather > > than moving image . . . we would have preferred at some points to > combine > > them. .. however etcetera). > > I didn't feel it needed video at all. There's so much video on the net. > More > interesting without video, trying to do something that isn't so g(l)utted > and is coming to grips with net media rather than shovelling old media > into > a new environment. I know people like video but they also like big macs. > > ja > http://vispo.com > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 22:17:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: baby boomers & Zepplin Comments: To: Gabrielle Welford In-Reply-To: Pine.GSO.4.58a.0712181636480.8247@uhunix2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Well, I may not really be a Zep hater, but I did walk out on them during one of their first American tours -- They were the headliners one night of a Rock festival I went to -- but by the time they got on stage, I'd already seen performances by Buddy Guy and Johnny Winter and Jethro Tull (who had more blues to them in those early days -- I rushed out and bought their LP -- already had lots of Buddy Guy and the first Johnny WInter) -- Whole Lotta Love sounded like the Yardbirds doing Willie Dixon -- hell, it almost was the Yardbirds doing Willie Dixon -- but with a less interesting vocalist and no harp --- They were OK -- but compared to the likes of Buddy Guy and Johnny WInter, just OK -- On Tue, Dec 18, 2007 09:37 PM, Gabrielle Welford wrote: > well.... not hate but... i saw them at the albert hall in the early 70s >and didn't like them. could've been that i was way up at the top of the >building far far away. but maybe i just didn't like them. i like sandy >denny with them... :-) > >On Tue, 18 Dec 2007, steve russell wrote: > >> Seems good ole Led Zep had a successful bash there in London. I like it >> when musicians old enough to be my parents get together & rock. I grew >> up with Zep. I've haven't discovered anyone who dislikes that band. >> There must be a few Zep haters out there. >> >> Damn, this is a Poetry listserv. I'll try to get back on page. >> >> >> --------------------------------- >> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it >now. >> > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We are enslaved by what makes us free -- intolerable paradox at the heart of speech. --Robert Kelly Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 19:28:50 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Paul Nelson Subject: Frank Morgan Dead MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://jazztimes.com/columns_and_features/news/detail.cfm?article=3D11311= =0A=0AAlto saxophonist Frank Morgan died of kidney failure in Minneapolis o= n=0ADec. 14th. Morgan, who was 73, had recently returned from a European=0A= tour. He had suffered a stroke in 1996 and had recently been diagnosed=0Awi= th terminal colon cancer. Earlier in his life, Morgan was addicted to=0Aher= oin and spent considerable time in prison=97he was away from the music=0Abu= siness for 30 years. The son of Stanley Morgan, a guitarist in the Ink Spot= s singing=0Agroup, Frank Morgan was born in Minneapolis but moved to Minnea= polis=0Aduring his childhood. There he first studied guitar but the sound o= f=0ACharlie Parker convinced him to switch to saxophone at the age of 7. In= =0A1947, Morgan=92s family moved to Los Angeles, where he began playing in= =0Abop bands in the 1950s. Morgan recorded during those early years with=0A= Freddy Martin, Teddy Charles and Kenny Clarke, and cut his first album=0Aas= a leader for GNP Crescendo in 1955. It would also be his last album=0Aunti= l 1985, when he began cutting a series of albums for Contemporary,=0AAntill= es, Telarc and High Note. He returned to Minneapolis in 2005.=0A=0AI met Fr= ank in Taos and had the pleasure of bringing him onto the stage at the Ears= hot Festival in Seattle in 2001. I read a poem I composed for him and when = I finished, he held out his hand, asking to keep the poem. He was an amazin= g alto player with a very sweet tone. He'd been through hell and now anothe= r one of the great musicians from the bebop era is gone. =0A=0ALong live Fr= ank Morgan.=0A=0Ahttp://www.globalvoicesradio.org/The_Path_of_Survival.html= =0A=0APaul Nelson=0A=0A=0AGlobal Voices Radio=0ASPLAB!=0AAmerican Sentences= =0AOrganic Poetry=0APoetry Postcard Blog=0AWashington Poets Association=0A= =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A _____________________________________________= _______________________________________=0ANever miss a thing. Make Yahoo y= our home page. =0Ahttp://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 00:00:27 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: "Wrack" image & Ruins, Wrecks & Runes//& a flickr gallery & essay link In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit That's a terrific essay, David. And some fascinating quotations, as well, such as Emerson's "Words are signs of natural facts." Which reminds me of a related sentiment expressed by Socrates. Perhaps it was in the Republic, but it could have been in any number of the dialogues because Socrates and some straw man were discussing the 'nature' of 'the good'. Socrates was seeking a definition. The straw man gave examples of good things, good people, good familial relations, etc. Socrates said (and I paraphrase) "great, but I'm looking for what's common to all these examples. There must be something common to them, musn't there? Or we wouldn't use the same word to describe them: good." The idea that there must be something common to all the examples because we call them all 'good' is 'essentialist' and, from a contemporary perspective, rather naive about language. I suppose we are all essentialists from time to time because language itself is ineradicably essentialist: a 'chair' is a fuzzy class of things; words can sometimes be made to refer to 'real' things in the 'real' world, but mostly, in any particular sentence, the things referred to are not particular but, instead, are erm virtual. figures of speech, as it were/was/isn't/could be/should be/is supposed to be/never will be/is/was thought to be/was lied to be/was hoped to be/was inferred to be/was deduced to be/was convenient to be/was cajoled to be/was exhaustively and partisanly reasoned to be. There is a great deal of hype about the splendor of creating virtual worlds but we do that whenever we open our mouths. Or write. Fiction is merely explicit about it. The 'real' and what we take for the 'real' are forever swirling together in a drama of masks where it sometimes is impossible to distinguish the 'real' from the supposed, the inferred, the imaginary, the linguistic, the desired, the feared, the loved, the incorporeal, the disembodied, the realm of forms or the veil of Maya. Language is a forest of imaginary/ideal classes. It's hard to point to see a tree for the forest. I mean a real tree. Like that one over there. Yet, for all that, it's indisputable that we are getting banged hard. There is a real world! But what we think it to be is mostly made of language and media. Except our own immediate world, where we can sometimes do a bit more testing and verification. In such a world belief is crucial. If we cannot know the way something is, we have to choose who to believe about that thing. I don't know what it means to say that 'words are signs of natural facts'. It supposes a stronger connection between language and a way things are than is reasonably merited. Also, 'nature', the more we think about it, comes down to things like the laws of physics, which are patently not natural but are, instead, human constructions, human theories--and necessarily incomplete theories that will change upon deeper reflection over the course of centuries as the body of assumptions and primitive terms is enlarged to accomodate deeper experience. And what was thought to be 'natural' or 'a priori true' will turn out to be like the idea that parallel lines never meet--which was cited by early philosophers repeatedly as the exemplar of an 'a priori truth' but turns out to be an independent axiom which can be negated to form an equally consistent non-Euclidean geometry. Yet, for all that, despite the epistemic uncertainties and incompleteness of any and all sentient knowing now and (seemingly) forevermore, it seems we do, over time (if we have much left) learn something. But I digress. Apologies. I really liked the, uh, central 'conceit' of your essay--as in the constructions of the 'metaphysical poets': "The movement from the natural to the spiritual, from signs to symbols in a peculiar way seems not unlike what one might call a "Transcendentalism of the Virtual." Or, perhaps, a Transcendentalism in Reverse, in the way that Robert Smithson, after Nabokov, wrote of construction sites as "ruins in reverse." That's rather beautiful, humorous, learned, and intriguing all at once. And the development of the notion proceeds in an equally fascinating way; the idea of "world-as-symbol" and 'spirit as virtual'. You are playful and earnest in it at the same time, mocking of it and and yet marshall an interesting argument for it. One of the things I take from the essay is a deeper appreciation of the intertwined 'nature' of world and language. We can't deny either--world or language. Can't deny the existence of a world independent of language, yet recognize how very dependent they must be in any sentient being--unless it is possible to transcend language and symbol to direct apprehension of the world and human actions and meaning. I have my doubts about that possib. And, even if it were possible (and it is), I wonder how extensive that sort of knowledge can be--I think we need both freshness of apprehension and language. Which may relate to our shared interest in visual poetry where language and world are examined somewhat differently. All the best, David, and thanks for the essay and the terrific links. ja http://vispo.com > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of David Chirot > Sent: December 18, 2007 12:18 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: "Wrack" image & Ruins, Wrecks & Runes//& a flickr gallery & > essay link > > > I was interested in the comments re Peter's "Wrack" image and the relation > of the virtual with "natural" or "organic" language. > > In his monumental five decade long labor of love, the 18th Century > Natural History, Buffon writes that perhaps the scaly tail of the > beaver is > due to its eating fish. > Which, "quite naturally," prompted some wag to query in that > case, how > long might be M Buffon's tail?--if, of course, he did eat fish!-- > > In the "Language" section of "Nature" Emerson writes: > 1. Words are signs of natural facts. > ("And ain't that a natural born fact, Jack," as the saying > goes.) > 2. Particular natural facts are symbols of particular > spiritual facts. > > (The fish in Peter's image being, say, Pisces, or the > Christian symbol of the fish, St Peter as a fisher of men, or an > allegory of > the fish dying of polluted waters, or a sign for Fish Fry Fridays--) > 3. Nature is the symbol of spirit. > (Completing Emerson's Transcendental and redeeming > version of > the dreaded Jesuitical machinations known as the syllogism.) > > Very quickly one moves from natural facts to words as their > signs, to "particular" natural facts being symbols of spiritual facts and > then to nature as a symbol of spirit. > > The movement from the natural to the spiritual, from signs to > symbols in a peculiar way seems not unlike what one might call a > "Transcendentalism of the Virtual." Or, perhaps, a Transcendentalism in > Reverse, in the way that Robert Smithson, after Nabokov, wrote of > construction sites as "ruins in reverse." > > One begins--in this reversal-- from the Transcendental > "spirit"--the Virtual Image--Virtuality being not unlike "spirit" in the > sense that is "there" via symbols (digital codes)--and since particular > spiritual facts are symbols of particular natural facts--(whose signs are > words)--then--"nature is the symbol of spirit." > > In other words, the world is a symbol of the virtual. Words as > "signs of natural facts" which are "spiritual facts" which are the turning > of nature into the symbol of the spiritual--are both "signs of natural > facts" and symbols of the spirit. Language and nature are symbols of > spirit--or, Virtuality. > > Spirit is Virtuality. Virtuality is spirituality, and > so, in a way, > becomes, is, also virtue (The shared etymology of the Latin virtus.) > > Virtuality as virtue, as another form of the spirituality which > redeems the "fallen world" by turning it into a "symbol." > > This has a strange effect on the experience of, > perception of, the > world, as it no longer exists, but is now world-as-symbol. For, if it is a > symbol, this means the world is not "real." > > The world-as-symbol becomes a place of tourism for the "virtual > eye"-- taking the Surrealists' trips to the flea markets to new heights. > > There are tours now for persons to take in which they are shown the > "signage" and other "symbols" of the virtual that exist in their > neighborhoods. This form of perception is considered a "virtue." > The poet > Charles Bernstein goes to China and comes back with --what > else--but a great > many photos of signs and "symbols." The disconnect between the English > "mistranslations" from the Chinese is a "symbolic joke" and > illustrative of > one's own virtue as a perceiver of signs and symbols. (Though i always > wonder if the Chinese might not actually be saying something > like--well, we > shall leave that to the reader's imagination.) > > By virtue, so to speak, of this effect of the Virtual, what > is seen in > the world are only those things which are signs and symbols of > the symbolic > world of the Virtual. > > What one sees in the world is a reflection of the Virtual. That is, > one recognizes as "real" only those things which one knows from > the Virtual. > In a sense the tours of one's neighborhood as a trove of signage > and symbols > are a form of training in this recognition of the Virtual "real" and its > virtues. > > Yet what of those who live, pagans, beyond the pale of the > virtues of > Virtual "access?" > > One speaks of the "dependence on foreign oil"--one hears little > about the "dependence on electricity" in terms of access to the > "real" as it > is realized in the Virtual. > > Are those who exist beyond electricity's reach those are without > virtue? > > This would seem to be the case for those affected by the following > events: in Rwanda, when the massacres were to being, all cables, > telephone > lines, any electric access, was completely cut off. Once sealed from the > real Virtual world, the now Virtual "disappeareds" were removed from the > world as being without virtue. In Myamar, protests were followed by the > cut-off with the outside world of cable and phone access. In the world's > largest ever prison, already Walled off from the world, a "refugee Camp," > the Palestinians of Gaza are disappearing from virtue by virtue of the cut > off of electricity. When all the lights go out--where will they be? > > If one were to go about cutting off electricity, chopping > off cables, > pulling plugs, denying on line access to citizens for various > reasons--controlling who is part of the Virtual and virtuous world--one > might wonder if part of the possibility of this is to inculcate ever more > "willing suspension of disbelief" in the Virtual and its virtues in the > denizens of the Virtual. > > For then will they not ever more willingly accede to the > "transparency" of a > new Transparent Eyeball in reverse, the Panoptical Eye of instantaneous > "real time" surveillance of everyone and access to everyone's files, > images, messages, transactions in order to keep "secure" the virtue of the > Virtual? > > The threat of the loss of the Virtual, of being a part of the > virtues of the > Virtual, may become a new form of discipline. And, desirous to not lose > one's sense of Virtual Reality, might not one then accede to > entering into a > world wide prison? > > To "die" outside the Virtual--or to "Live" as a prisoner. > > Along those cheerful lines--Drew Kunz recently invited me to a group > involved with thinking on the artistic developments through time > taking the > grid as a proposition for work. Personally i don't like grids at all(even > though one benefits much of course from the virtues of the electronic > grids--) and personal experience of them has done nothing to to > tarnish the > dislike. > Yet paradoxically, due to this dislike of grids and what they > may men in > various circumstances, a great deal of my work has made use of them, far > more than one realized. > This flickr gallery includes works made with overt and explicit as > well as more covert and implicit grids. Many are from a series of "Walls" > which will be forthcoming in a book from Otoliths. The examples here are > often of language that is affected by violence, fire, the wear and tear of > Time, the "dirtiness" of non-Virtual and virtuous existence. > Attached is an essay "Hidden in Plain Sight" which appeared in > Otoliths which discuss the impact since childhood of construction sites, > crow's nests and found materials on my work and methods. > The essay has a link to another short piece re Bob Cobbing, my > friend and mentor. Of the two of us jw curry wrote that, outside the > division of "Clean" and "Dirty" Schools of Visual Poetry, there was the > "Quick'nDirty" School of Cobbing and Chirot. Bob Cobbing was one of the > great geniuses and artists of the 20th Century. He and Kurt Schwitters, > with Dubuffet, are for me the three most important artists of their times. > I see their work and what i continue on with as a kind of guerilla > art of survival in the hidden in plain site/sight/cite of the > real world, as > opposed to existing solely in the Virtual world which is not real, but a > reflection, though its effects are real. > This kind of work can be done anytime any where with next > to nothing > at all except the everything that is here and there, there, > there--found all > around one, right at hand. It is "born" of necessity, the Motherfucker of > Invention. > > here is the link for the essay: > the-otolith.blogspot.com/2006/07/*david*-*baptiste*-*chirot*-*hidden*-in-* > plain*.html > > and here the flickr link > http://www.flickr.com/send?nsid=8237952@N06&set=72157603474988121 > > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 06:19:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: second life third life MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed second life third life begin by setting out directions, these are the five healthy directions, the middle direction is one of exhaustion and ecstasy, then in the direction opposite the middle direction set out the last direction, which is one of wounding and suffering. if the middle direction is reception, the last direction is penetration, if the last direction is reception, the middle direction is penetration. set the house in order from the middle direction outward, these are the spokes which narrow to the point of intersection between the middle direction and last direction. now forget the four directions, concentrate on the spokes, the point, the middle and the last direction. then concentrate on the spokes, forget the point, the middle and the last direction, the spokes come close to the point, forever close to the point, but the point is absent, emptiness, emptiness radiates outward between the spokes. now forget the spokes, emptiness radiates among the ghosts of them, the spokes are hungry ghosts, they gnaw at emptiness, they are wounded, they are defeated, they disappear. now think of emptiness, think of nothing else, think of nothing. now you have laid out the house and the world and the word, but you are in ignorance, you do not know house or world or word, if you think house or world or word you must begin again, laying out the five directions and so forth. now you have come to an end and you are ready to begin, you have come to the beginning, and you are ready to end. now continue. you must imagine now yourself and house and world and word annihilated, you must imagine annihilation of annihilation. you must imagine almost all pleasure, among taste of delight and touch of exaltation, and among scent of numinous being and sight of untold beauty and hearing of harmonious sounds. now you must imagine another being joined to yourself and house and world and word, you must imagine penetration reception and reception penetration, you must imagine fullness and overflowing of delight. now you will find you are creating and you are making sheave-woman and sheave-man, you are sheave-woman and sheave-man, you have sheave-sight-and-sound, you have sheave-touch-and-scent, you have sheave-taste-and-mind, you have sheave-passion and sheave-ecstasy. now you will walk and remember, you will remember everything, and you will speak and hear, see and taste, you will forbid nothing, you will not be forbidden, you will rise above and sink below, you will be among the direction of wounded and suffering. now you will do this for a long time, for aeons. now you will embrace emptiness, you are making sheave-other, you are making sheave-emptiness, you are making wrath, are making creation, are making annihilation. now you are making annihilation, now you are among them, beneath them, above them, now you are beyond them. now you are no longer imagining, you are no longer thinking among them, you are no longer thinking, no longer sheave, no longer thought, now you are annihilation, now you are making nothing, now you are annihilation, now you destroy house and world and word, now you are destroyed, now you are annihilation, you are free, you are emptiness, you are annihilation, you are emptiness, now you are free. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 07:15:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Recent posts on Nomadics Blog Comments: To: Britis-Irish List Comments: cc: "Poetryetc: poetry and poetics" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v915) Check out these recent posts on Nomadics blog here: = http://pjoris.blogspot.com Review of Blanchot's "Chroniques Litt=E9raires" What is this time? CHICAGO MARATHON READING John Moritz (1946-2007) This week's crop Ominous Arctic Melt Worries Experts On not winning the Nobel Prize Happy Hols, a Noyeux Jo=EBl & a Nappy Ewe's Ear for ya'all, Pierre ___________________________________________________________ The poet: always in partibus infidelium -- Paul Celan ___________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris 244 Elm Street Albany NY 12202 h: 518 426 0433 c: 518 225 7123 o: 518 442 40 71 Euro cell: (011 33) 6 75 43 57 10 email: joris@albany.edu http://pierrejoris.com Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com ____________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 05:09:02 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adam Fieled Subject: PFS Post: Larry Sawyer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Check out four new poems on PFS Post from Chicago poet Larry Sawyer: http://www.artrecess.blogspot.com Larry Sawyer curates the Myopic Poetry Reading Series in Wicker Park, Chicago, and edits the online literary magazine http://www.milkmag.org. His poetry, essays, and reviews have appeared in publications such as the Chicago Tribune, Mipoesias, Ocho, Court Green, Exquisite Corpse, and the Miami Sun Post, and he was recently anthologized in "The City Visible" (Cracked Slab Books, 2007). The next in the PFS Presents reading series will take place at Kate the Great's, Andersonville, Chicago, on January 3, 2008, featuring: Larry Sawyer, Lina Ramona Vitkauskas, Adam Fieled, Steve Halle, Melissa Severin. The reading will also be a release party for Steve Halle's chapbook, "Cessation Covers," from Funtime Press. Books!!! "Opera Bufa" http://www.lulu.com/content/1137210 "Beams" http://www.blazevox.org/ebk-af.pdf --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 14:06:08 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gareth Farmer Subject: Empson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear all READ THIS CAREFULLY FOR A GUARANTEED CHUCKLE. I, FOR ONE, ALMOST FELL OFF MY CHAIR. Writing of the lack of positive 'dogmas' surrounding much modern poetry he claims that: 'The result is a certain lack of positive satisfaction in the reading of any poetry; doubt becomes a permanent back-ground of the mind, both as to whether the thing is being interpreted rightly and as to whether, if it is, one ought to allow one elf to feel pleased.' From Seven types of Ambiguity, (London: Pimlico, 2004), p.255 At least the elf will be pleased with its reading. Gareth ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 11:00:40 -0400 Reply-To: david@badnoiseproductions.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Applegate Subject: Vocalese / Libretto MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello, Vocalese can provide an interesting alternative to traditional singing in opera. I'm thinking specifically of the opera "Astronome" by John Zorn which incorporates all manner of vocal sounds, utterances & strangeness. Rather than detracting from the emotional impact of the piece, these pre-verbal noises actually open up new avenues for hearing and interpretation. I'd make the same argument for the use of these 'out of bounds' noises in poetry. Best, David Applegate www.badnoiseproductions.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 13:23:28 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Empson In-Reply-To: <035E147EC6605DCF77867A63@[192.168.2.2]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hey, i wanna allow a *dozen* elves to be pleased, is that asking too much? Gareth Farmer wrote: > Dear all > READ THIS CAREFULLY FOR A GUARANTEED CHUCKLE. I, FOR ONE, ALMOST FELL > OFF MY CHAIR. > > Writing of the lack of positive 'dogmas' surrounding much modern > poetry he claims that: > 'The result is a certain lack of positive satisfaction in the reading > of any poetry; doubt becomes a permanent back-ground of the mind, both > as to whether the thing is being interpreted rightly and as to > whether, if it is, one ought to allow one elf to feel pleased.' > > From Seven types of Ambiguity, (London: Pimlico, 2004), p.255 > > At least the elf will be pleased with its reading. > > Gareth ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 04:05:06 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christophe Casamassima Subject: Hoodwink #1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 If bats shadowed men why is it then necessary to make an observaion? =3D Maui Real Estate Search Maui MLS for Free! New Listings Emailed Direct to Your Inbox. http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick?redirectid=3D884d4bc4ea94c964eaeee= 7a5da3a59f0 --=20 Powered By Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 04:09:11 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christophe Casamassima Subject: Hoodwink#1.0001 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Eat well! but Be eaten willingly! =3D Rozeremtm (Ramelteon) Ask your doctor today if RozeremTM (ramelteon) is right for you. http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick?redirectid=3D65ffffd5bce2218fe3d1a= 5b00c132001 --=20 Powered By Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 12:24:34 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Marseille - Rap Music Helps Keep the Peace - New York Times//includes music clips MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/19/arts/music/19rap.html?th&emc=th --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 16:52:57 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve russell Subject: Re: what Mario Vargas LLosa & Bob Marley have in common In-Reply-To: <9778b8630712171518q7b58a9ecxf07d6d8427af22fc@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Too bad the fools in the CIA don't have a MOST LISTENED TO list. Why "watch" Marley? What a sad waste of time. I can understand your fatigue concerning the use & misuse of the Marley name. This, too, I understand: To retract or redact: I'm tired of the "Legend" idea of compilation and offering, of re-release and remasterings, of appropriation by surf communities everywhere, and not of the person that Marley was. I agree with Mairead that there seem to be levels of meaning in Ryan Daley wrote: My comment about Marley and Dylan notwithstanding, I must admit that I was a huge fan of both, and an even more avid fan of the former (my undergraduate entrance essay was written as a paean to Marley. So, needless to say, I was more than a huge Marley fan. I think it's very sad that his legacy left behind so much infighting and trading on his name. That being said, I think Marley was much more heroic than Dylan. Think about the December 1976 assassination attempt on his life (A ruling party behind it, supposedly because Marley was gaining such mass appeal that he represented a threat). Think about the fact that he was on the CIA's "Most Watched List," probably sharing space with Allende. Marley is so much more than a musician....he's a Fred Hampton, a Dylan, a Kind David all rolled into one, 5' 3" persona. Really a beautiful person. Marley's music. Just "Mr. Brown" alone is a beautiful piece about a crow that used to ride around town on the coffin during funerals...really weird stuff. "Mortal the downpressor, he'll lead the life of sad tomorrow..." A cutting, almost Biblical attempt at the universal in both its embrace of inherent violence of life (hexes, death, duppies, etc.) and the need to rise up and confront those doing the "downpressing." -Ryan On Dec 17, 2007 10:54 AM, Mairead Byrne wrote: > Yeah well I'm not tired of Bob Marley, as you can guess. I hope it > never happens, but there is a fixed body of work, even though the > Marleys & lots more continue to work with it, & out of it. I was very > interested to read your account, David, particularly what you say about > his way of speaking. I never saw Bob Marley perform but listen to > interviews --and am always stunned by the difference between his > speaking and singing voice. Even after years I have to still laugh in > incomprehension when I listen to him speak, there was absolutely no > compromise with that accent, man. But when he sings: every word is > absolutely clear, or nearly every word (he has such a great vocabulary), > even though the phrases don't always add up to absolute sense. But the > songs are packed dimensionally with other kinds of sense. One of things > I most admire about him is the absolute discipline of moving from those > early recordings, when he was 16, relentlessly through 20 years of > composition, activism, and performance. He made pretty good choices > with producers & labels, & then founding his own company Tuff Gong which > continues to release great material. One of the movies, Catch A Fire I > think, has extensive interviews with Chris Blackwell & Tony Platt, who > engineered Catch a Fire I think, the Wailers' first Island record: > that's really fascinating to see how the music was put together. Poetry > doesn't know or do anything like that. > Mairead > > >>> David Chirot 12/16/07 10:03 PM >>> > I saw Bob Marley perform as part of an day -night concert at Harvard > Stadium > MC by Dick Gregory--back in the late 70's=-- > (i stumbled on footage of it at you tube--) > > he was fantastic--on stage over two hours--and was part of the small > group > of person, about 7 or 8--allowed to sit facing him at a long cafeteria > type > table set up on the sidelines of the football field--and > talk/interview-- > > the only other musician i have ever met who had truly an Aura, a great > spirituality, commitment, energy and a sense also of fragility, like a > deer--was Don Cherry--they shared a world vision they had of /for/with > music-- > > Bob Marley as a musician are i think as yet underrated in what he > accomplished in moving from the early rude boys ska days and very > simple > tunes and covers--to the music he was forging later as his vision grew > greater and more powerful, more world embracing-- > > he was one of those very rare human beings in whom there is another > light--being radiated outwards--through him -into the world--a light of > great hope and great change--great beauty--great energy-- > > for days and days after meeting him it felt as though as some kind of > electric charge was still reverberating through and out of me > phsyucially > and in the spiritual sense-- > > he was able to communicate this to whole stadiums the world over as well > as > through hundreds of millions of radios, boom boxes, videos, movies, > images--the sound carries on throughout the world-- > > > He had a very soft speaking voice and gave very precise answers to > questions > and asked many of his own-- > > it wasn't like being in the presence of a "superstar" at all--a very > humble > person in the sense a deeply spiritual being is-- > > he didn't have any "self-absorption"--very rare indeed in anyone let > alone a > being in his place-- > > he radiated outward, into and through the world--the vibrations and > reverberations-- > > greater than the person --who was the bringer of them-- > > and brought others into a greater sphere as it were of the meaning of > being > on a "globe" together-- > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 16:23:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Camille Martin Subject: BookThugs at the Bowery Poetry Club MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Come to the BookThug Book Party at the Bowery Poetry Club! Saturday December 29, 2-4 pm =20 Featured readers: =20 Cara Benson Greg Betts Jason Dickson Lisa Jarnot Evan Kennedy Camille Martin Jay Millar Gregory Pardlo =20 BookThug is a Toronto-based independent publisher of chapbooks and trade = books of poetry and poetically minded literature. =20 $8 The Bowery Poetry Club=20 308 Bowery, New York, NY 212.614.0505=20 foot of First Street, between Houston & Bleecker=20 across the street from CBGBs F train to Second Ave, or 6 train to Bleecker ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 16:50:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ryan Daley Subject: Re: what Mario Vargas LLosa & Bob Marley have in common In-Reply-To: <618348.9365.qm@web52408.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Stiff necked fools at that. On Dec 17, 2007 7:52 PM, steve russell wrote: > Too bad the fools in the CIA don't have a MOST LISTENED TO list. Why > "watch" Marley? What a sad waste of time. I can understand your fatigue > concerning the use & misuse of the Marley name. This, too, I understand: To > retract or redact: I'm tired of the "Legend" idea of compilation and > offering, of re-release and remasterings, of appropriation by surf > communities everywhere, and not of the person that Marley was. > > I agree with Mairead that there seem to be levels of meaning in > > Ryan Daley wrote: My comment about Marley and Dylan > notwithstanding, I must admit that I was a > huge fan of both, and an even more avid fan of the former (my > undergraduate > entrance essay was written as a paean to Marley. So, needless to say, I > was > more than a huge Marley fan. I think it's very sad that his legacy left > behind so much infighting and trading on his name. That being said, I > think > Marley was much more heroic than Dylan. Think about the December 1976 > assassination attempt on his life (A ruling party behind it, supposedly > because Marley was gaining such mass appeal that he represented a threat). > Think about the fact that he was on the CIA's "Most Watched List," > probably > sharing space with Allende. Marley is so much more than a musician....he's > a > Fred Hampton, a Dylan, a Kind David all rolled into one, 5' 3" persona. > Really a beautiful person. > > Marley's > music. Just "Mr. Brown" alone is a beautiful piece about a crow that used > to > ride around town on the coffin during funerals...really weird stuff. > "Mortal > the downpressor, he'll lead the life of sad tomorrow..." A cutting, almost > Biblical attempt at the universal in both its embrace of inherent violence > of life (hexes, death, duppies, etc.) and the need to rise up and confront > those doing the "downpressing." > > -Ryan > > On Dec 17, 2007 10:54 AM, Mairead Byrne wrote: > > > Yeah well I'm not tired of Bob Marley, as you can guess. I hope it > > never happens, but there is a fixed body of work, even though the > > Marleys & lots more continue to work with it, & out of it. I was very > > interested to read your account, David, particularly what you say about > > his way of speaking. I never saw Bob Marley perform but listen to > > interviews --and am always stunned by the difference between his > > speaking and singing voice. Even after years I have to still laugh in > > incomprehension when I listen to him speak, there was absolutely no > > compromise with that accent, man. But when he sings: every word is > > absolutely clear, or nearly every word (he has such a great vocabulary), > > even though the phrases don't always add up to absolute sense. But the > > songs are packed dimensionally with other kinds of sense. One of things > > I most admire about him is the absolute discipline of moving from those > > early recordings, when he was 16, relentlessly through 20 years of > > composition, activism, and performance. He made pretty good choices > > with producers & labels, & then founding his own company Tuff Gong which > > continues to release great material. One of the movies, Catch A Fire I > > think, has extensive interviews with Chris Blackwell & Tony Platt, who > > engineered Catch a Fire I think, the Wailers' first Island record: > > that's really fascinating to see how the music was put together. Poetry > > doesn't know or do anything like that. > > Mairead > > > > >>> David Chirot 12/16/07 10:03 PM >>> > > I saw Bob Marley perform as part of an day -night concert at Harvard > > Stadium > > MC by Dick Gregory--back in the late 70's=-- > > (i stumbled on footage of it at you tube--) > > > > he was fantastic--on stage over two hours--and was part of the small > > group > > of person, about 7 or 8--allowed to sit facing him at a long cafeteria > > type > > table set up on the sidelines of the football field--and > > talk/interview-- > > > > the only other musician i have ever met who had truly an Aura, a great > > spirituality, commitment, energy and a sense also of fragility, like a > > deer--was Don Cherry--they shared a world vision they had of /for/with > > music-- > > > > Bob Marley as a musician are i think as yet underrated in what he > > accomplished in moving from the early rude boys ska days and very > > simple > > tunes and covers--to the music he was forging later as his vision grew > > greater and more powerful, more world embracing-- > > > > he was one of those very rare human beings in whom there is another > > light--being radiated outwards--through him -into the world--a light of > > great hope and great change--great beauty--great energy-- > > > > for days and days after meeting him it felt as though as some kind of > > electric charge was still reverberating through and out of me > > phsyucially > > and in the spiritual sense-- > > > > he was able to communicate this to whole stadiums the world over as well > > as > > through hundreds of millions of radios, boom boxes, videos, movies, > > images--the sound carries on throughout the world-- > > > > > > He had a very soft speaking voice and gave very precise answers to > > questions > > and asked many of his own-- > > > > it wasn't like being in the presence of a "superstar" at all--a very > > humble > > person in the sense a deeply spiritual being is-- > > > > he didn't have any "self-absorption"--very rare indeed in anyone let > > alone a > > being in his place-- > > > > he radiated outward, into and through the world--the vibrations and > > reverberations-- > > > > greater than the person --who was the bringer of them-- > > > > and brought others into a greater sphere as it were of the meaning of > > being > > on a "globe" together-- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it > now. > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 19:07:20 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jen Tynes Subject: New chapbook by Sampson Starkweather In-Reply-To: <81e468cd0712191805v346adfe4yc7c8781887213119@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline A new chapbook from HORSE LESS PRESS! THE PHOTOGRAPH by Sampson Starkweather Learn more about it here: http://www.horselesspress.com/photograph.html Buy it here: http://www.horselesspress.com/chapbooks.html Coming soon: chapbooks from Sommer Browning, Chris Tonelli & Sarah Bartlett. And only 43 more days to submit work for our response/collaboration anthology: CALL FOR SUBMISSIONS HORSE LESS PRESS will publish a print anthology in 2008. THE THEME is response. WE ARE INTERESTED in the following 1) writings that respond to, collaborate with, collage from, extend, elaborate, etc. a piece of writing that HAS APPEARED in horse less review, 2) COLLABORATIONS WITH WRITERS who've been published by horse less press or review, 3) BEGINNINGS, FRAGMENTS, PROPOSALS, HALF-MADE WORKS which desire some attention. We may also be interested in collaborative or response-based writings that do not fall into these categories. Please query early if you have an idea. SUBMISSIONS GO to horselessresponse at gmail dot com. Our deadline is January 31, 2008. Send work IN THE BODY of email or as a single word, rtf, or pdf file. IN A COVER letter please tell us a little about yourself and a little about the work you are submitting. PLEASE CLARIFY whether your submission falls into category 1, 2, 3. If #1, MAKE SURE you identify the source work. IF YOU NEED MORE information, visit our website or send questions to the above email address. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 20:12:21 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: TNWK In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I love big macs (as in computers not burgers) always have.. but I fail to see the connection between video & big macs... On Dec 18, 2007, at 8:42 PM, cris cheek wrote: > well constraints 'r' us > and i like them too > > but i don't like big macs and i do like video > > guess it's hybridity > > ;) > > happy holidays > > On Dec 18, 2007 3:49 PM, Jim Andrews wrote: > >>> (altho >>> i would have to add the internet at that point in time . . . >>> without the >>> kinds of download speeds we have now . . . hence the use of still >>> rather >>> than moving image . . . we would have preferred at some points to >> combine >>> them. .. however etcetera). >> >> I didn't feel it needed video at all. There's so much video on the >> net. >> More >> interesting without video, trying to do something that isn't so g >> (l)utted >> and is coming to grips with net media rather than shovelling old >> media >> into >> a new environment. I know people like video but they also like big >> macs. >> >> ja >> http://vispo.com >> > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 21:30:33 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: links to reviews of *Rhode Island Notebook* MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit links to the below reviews archived at http://rhodeislandnotebook.blogspot.com/ Giles Goodland: "...this is one of the best works of poetry I have seen for many years." Alan Sondheim: "This is the first 21st century classic." Jerome Rothenberg: "/Rhode Island Notebook/ is a modern/postmodern epic as a poem including everything. An incredibly human/humane book at bottom...." Mathias Svalina: "This is such a barn burner." Ray Bianchi: "Gudding...bring[s] us a great book and one that needs to be read for the work that it is." Anthony Robinson: "I'm pretty blown away by how messy, heartbreaking, and absolutely essential each line is.... Do you know how long it's been since I've read something that's made me feel like that?" Uncomplicatedly: "Gudding’s /Notebook/ is much more like mind as I know it — full of nonsense, full of noise, easily distracted, self-obsessed, but occasionally brilliant. It is, in many ways, a relief." http://rhodeislandnotebook.blogspot.com/ http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 19:33:28 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve russell Subject: Re: baby boomers & Zepplin/ William Burroughs In-Reply-To: <1198034238l.270500l.0l@psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit no doubt, but they got better. they were an infant ensemble when you saw them. but they became a singular sound, an innovative sound. William Burroughs started to hang with them. Everyone knew they were boss. the drummer was excellent. & Page, while no better than many other 1st tier rock guitarist on the electric, had a really nice acoustical touch. a touch that other rock guitarist didn't bother to explore. ALDON L NIELSEN wrote: Well, I may not really be a Zep hater, but I did walk out on them during one of their first American tours -- They were the headliners one night of a Rock festival I went to -- but by the time they got on stage, I'd already seen performances by Buddy Guy and Johnny Winter and Jethro Tull (who had more blues to them in those early days -- I rushed out and bought their LP -- already had lots of Buddy Guy and the first Johnny WInter) -- Whole Lotta Love sounded like the Yardbirds doing Willie Dixon -- hell, it almost was the Yardbirds doing Willie Dixon -- but with a less interesting vocalist and no harp --- They were OK -- but compared to the likes of Buddy Guy and Johnny WInter, just OK -- On Tue, Dec 18, 2007 09:37 PM, Gabrielle Welford wrote: > well.... not hate but... i saw them at the albert hall in the early 70s >and didn't like them. could've been that i was way up at the top of the >building far far away. but maybe i just didn't like them. i like sandy >denny with them... :-) > >On Tue, 18 Dec 2007, steve russell wrote: > >> Seems good ole Led Zep had a successful bash there in London. I like it >> when musicians old enough to be my parents get together & rock. I grew >> up with Zep. I've haven't discovered anyone who dislikes that band. >> There must be a few Zep haters out there. >> >> Damn, this is a Poetry listserv. I'll try to get back on page. >> >> >> --------------------------------- >> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it >now. >> > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We are enslaved by what makes us free -- intolerable paradox at the heart of speech. --Robert Kelly Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 21:03:29 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cris cheek Subject: Re: TNWK In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline guess i prefer macs to pcs or sumthink On Dec 19, 2007 7:12 PM, mIEKAL aND wrote: > I love big macs (as in computers not burgers) > > always have.. > > but I fail to see the connection between video & big macs... > > > On Dec 18, 2007, at 8:42 PM, cris cheek wrote: > > > well constraints 'r' us > > and i like them too > > > > but i don't like big macs and i do like video > > > > guess it's hybridity > > > > ;) > > > > happy holidays > > > > On Dec 18, 2007 3:49 PM, Jim Andrews wrote: > > > >>> (altho > >>> i would have to add the internet at that point in time . . . > >>> without the > >>> kinds of download speeds we have now . . . hence the use of still > >>> rather > >>> than moving image . . . we would have preferred at some points to > >> combine > >>> them. .. however etcetera). > >> > >> I didn't feel it needed video at all. There's so much video on the > >> net. > >> More > >> interesting without video, trying to do something that isn't so g > >> (l)utted > >> and is coming to grips with net media rather than shovelling old > >> media > >> into > >> a new environment. I know people like video but they also like big > >> macs. > >> > >> ja > >> http://vispo.com > >> > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 23:36:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: talk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Nikuko: Say everything. Julu: Say nothing. Nikuko: Say everything. Julu: Say nothing. Nikuko: Say everything. Julu: Say nothing. Nikuko: Say everything. Julu: Say nothing. Nikuko: Say everything. Julu: Say nothing. Nikuko: Say everything. Julu: Say nothing. Nikuko: Say everything. Julu: Say nothing. Nikuko: Say everything. Julu: Say nothing. Nikuko: Say everything. Julu: Say nothing. Nikuko: Say everything. Julu: Say nothing. Nikuko: Say everything. Julu: Say nothing. Nikuko: Say everything. Julu: Say nothing. Julu: Say Nikuko. Nikuko: Say Everything. Julu: Say Julu. Julu: Say nothing. Nikuko: Julu. http://www.alansondheim.org/Yamatantra1.jpg http://www.alansondheim.org/Yamatantra2.jpg http://www.alansondheim.org/Yamatantra3.jpg http://www.alansondheim.org/Yamatantra4.jpg http://www.alansondheim.org/Yamatantra5.jpg http://www.alansondheim.org/Yamatantra6.jpg http://www.alansondheim.org/Yamatantra7.jpg ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 20:56:14 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Merton & Buddhism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For those interested in the subject, here's my review of "Merton & = Buddhism," just published in Rain Taxi: http://www.raintaxi.com/online/2007winter/thurston.shtml -Joel __________________________________ Joel Weishaus Research Faculty Department of English Portland State University Portland, Oregon http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 21:49:15 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: CE Putnam Subject: Crawlspace Party Report (Video & more) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable We had a packed house (60++) for the event celebrating the release of=0Athe= only *Poetic Collaborative Book with Anaglyph (Red/Cyan) 3-D Cover=0AArt a= nd Audio Companion* to be published in America in 2007. =0A=0A=0A=0ASee be= low for videos, pictures & local press accounts. =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A########= ########=0A=0A=0A=0AONLY 200 COPIES PRINTED!!! ONLY $14 + SHIPPING!!!!=0A= =0A=0A=0AORDER ONLINE: http://www.pisor-industries.org/crawlspace.order.htm= l=0A=0A=0A=0A################=0A=0A=0A=0AA video of the first 4 poems as pe= rformed on the night exists at: =0A=0Ahttp://www.pisor-industries.org/crawl= space=0A=0Aor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D9WcNfQNzxys=0A=0A=0A=0ANeed= more? Some Photos!!!=0A=0Ahttp://www.pisor-industries.org/crawlspace/barn/= index.html=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A################=0A=0A=0A=0ASome Early Press:= =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A"Doug Nufer, Seattle's most gloriously Oulipian force for= good,=0Aintroduces the authors by first comparing them to bullfighters, an= d=0Athen suggesting that they wrote the poem more in the style of a=0Awrest= ling tag team. "When we apply the rules of professional wrestling=0Ato the = mayhem of poetry," Nufer says, "who or what are we fighting?"=0AComiskey an= d Putnam take the stage, dressed as foppish dandies in=0Abritches and waist= coats, with large buckles on their shoes and frilly=0Alace everywhere."=0A= =0A--From The Stranger=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_Crawlspace: A Poem_ by Daniel Comi= skey & C.E. Putnam ($14 P.I.S.O.R.)=0A=0AWhat is it? It's a book with a 3-D= cover and it comes with a CD and 3-D=0A=0Aglasses to cause the cover image= s to float above their background. And so do=0A=0Athe poems, float above th= e planes of logic and narrative, that is. In the=0A=0Apoem "Science Fair Dr= opout" we learn "Your life / is a private club / with=0A=0Aunlimited / priv= ileges that you have / joined -- for life." And also that=0A=0A"it's imposs= ible / to resist the plasma ball." The delight is in the=0A=0Alanguage. It = all makes a fractured, approximate sense, like overhearing=0A=0Acountless e= arnest conversations at once. "The Monkey said hello to the Pig,=0A=0Aand t= he Pig said / 'I don't speak Monkey' in Pig, and then the Monkey said /=0A= =0A'would you like a bite of my sandwich' in Monkey." Indeed, these gentlem= en=0A=0Ahave done something unusual here, in Monkey and in Pig. The CD feat= ures the=0A=0Atext of the book read by the authors over entertaining patche= s and blends of=0A=0Amovie and TV soundtrack music and ambient sounds. All = in all a wonderfully=0A=0Aodd, psychedelic sort of outing.=0A=0A=0A=0A--Fro= m Open Books' (Seattle=E2=80=99s only only poetry bookstore) Last Newslette= r of 2007=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AP.I.S.O.R=0A(Putnam Institute for Space Opera Re= search)=0Ahttp://www.pisor-industries.org=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A _______= ___________________________________________________________________________= __=0ANever miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. =0Ahttp://www.yahoo.co= m/r/hs ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 22:57:27 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andy Gricevich Subject: Re: links to reviews of *Rhode Island Notebook* MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit It's a great book, Gabriel. My housemate Ryan and I are both reading it, and we're moved and amused. Ryan said, "the book just seems right somehow;" it's certainly appeared at a good time for me. Thanks for writing it. cheers, Andy --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 21:15:05 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabrielle Welford Subject: Re: Librettos (fwd) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT from a friend who composes and sings... best, g ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 12:46:20 -0700 From: Rebekah *These suggestions are all right as far as they go. "Repeat a lot" doesn't have to be a big part of it, though. The composer can pick and choose what tastily-written phrases to repeat; just provide some tastily-written ones to use. Remember that guttural G's are tough to repeat and they tend to take the voice back into the throat, which makes it hard to keep a smooth line to the singing ( i.e., keep the sound "up front" and "in the mask"). Also, the short "a" (as in "as") is a bitch to keep resonant, so try not to give a lot of important words--which will need to be held longer than other words--a lot of short "a" vowels. You can fudge better with the short "u" as in "us". * * The stuff on exposition is not necessarily true, if the composer is good at writing music for "recitative" as well as "aria". I think a better thing for the librettist to consider would be to write with fairly clear differentiation between what is "recitative" (dialogue, discussion, plot propulsion) writing and what is "aria" (stop-action for reflection, revelation, arrival at decision--i.e., emotional persuasion, recognition and release). Listen to/read libretti of Wagner for an almost complete lack of differentiation between the two (Wagner megalomaniacally considered everything he wrote as revelation, and he was his own librettist--a 19th Cent. pathology)--most of Wagner is recitative declamation slowed to the tempo of aria; listen to Mozart--esp. Le Nozze di Figaro--for a complete balance between the two; listen to/read libretti of Monteverdi's work for an almost complete lack of aria--the bulk of Monteverdi (very early opera) is recitative declamation of poetry with thin musical accompaniment (lute, one or two bass instruments, like the later Mozartean recitativo secco)...so the poetry is directly accessible. Listen to /read libretti of Puccini (he didn't write his own) for a late 19th-Cent. take on excellent balance between "recitative" and "aria"--his recitative is songlike but the plot advances well and rapidly. Listen to/read Four Saints in Three Acts by Virgil Thomson (libretto by Gertrude Stein) for a singsong/20th Cent. popsong approach to libretto craft. Listen to Candide for Bernstein's jazzy approach to neoclassical (the novel by Voltaire) operatic writing (pretty brilliant)... * * I guess it would be best to familiarize yourself with your composer's characteristic style(s) of both instrumental and vocal music, so the rhythm of your words in the characters' mouths will better magnetize themselves to your composer's music while you are creating those words, rather than as an afterthought. Like any poet--even if you aren't and are "just" a playwright--your words should be delicious to the composer and singers to say out loud in some way, and not just fine words.* ** * Hope this is helpful and not confusing. Best I can do.* > Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 10:40:37 -0800 > From: Hugh Behm-Steinberg > > Hi all, > > I've been invited to write a libretto and, never having written one > before, I was wondering if others on this list had any advice. So far > I've been told: > > 1. Use lots of vowels -- maximize assonance. > 2. Repeat a lot. > 3. Be short -- don't try to cram too much information or exposition in. > > Mostly I'm concerned with musciality (there's that theme again) -- what > works to make something more singable. > > Many thanks, > > Hugh Behm-Steinberg > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it > now. > -- Bekah bekah148@gmail.com In the Blessed Boonies ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 03:58:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: almost a sonnet - MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed (apologies for too much stuff - I'm trying to hold things together and not bother you w/ therapy) http://www.alansondheim.org/moon.jpg almost a sonnet - Azure wakes up in the middle of the night, she says she says, well I say, I'm getting up here in Denver, there might be coyotes - I say, are you awake, feeling a bit moronic with the possibility of an 'of course' - she replies you have to get out of the way - I say, of what - of the man with the cart - what man - the man with the cart - I look, we're in a small room, surely, if there were a man with a cart, I'd see him - well he was behind the cart - but still - I look around, she's awake now - I say where did he come from - she says she says, from the closet - she says from the closet - I can't sleep, it's 3am or 4am - I say, I'm getting up, I rise like the dark sun of her dreams - she's sleeping again, I dress in the dark, look out the window - no coyotes to be seen, no man, no cart, no me, I walk down the hall, open the laptop, write this, almost a sonnet - ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 04:59:24 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: TNWK In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit ya. i like it too, sometimes. here are some links to interesting net videos: DORON GOLAN http://the9th.com BARBARA LATTANZI http://www.wildernesspuppets.net/yarns/software.html PETER HORVATH http://www.6168.org CHRIS JOSEPH http://www.babel.ca/uixy http://babel.ca > well constraints 'r' us > and i like them too > > but i don't like big macs and i do like video > > guess it's hybridity > > ;) > > happy holidays ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 21:30:31 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Switaj Subject: Re: talk In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline You know, I've had very similar conversations with students in EFL classrooms. Elizabeth Kate Switaj www.elizabethkateswitaj.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 10:01:56 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Apostrophe Cast - Today In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Stop by Apostrophe Cast to hear my poems pass through a Brooklyn restaurant ... http://apostrophecast.com/ Apostrophe Cast is a bi-weekly online reading series of all things literary. Every other Wednesday night, we offer a new reading or performance from another contributor. Our readings include creative writers from all genres, including fiction, poetry, songs and nonfiction. http://apostrophecast.com/ Happy Holidays! ~~ --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 08:43:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Stricker Subject: nanomajority #5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Announcing nanomajority #5 (www.nanomajority.com) In this issue: latitude/longitude - "Two improvisations from July 13, 2007" - Recorded live at Zebulon, Williamsburg, Brooklyn, NY Patrick McCarthy: Mandolin, Voice Michael Garofalo: Lamellophones, Test Oscillator Jason Labbe: Drums, Percussion Lathan Hardy: Saxophone *** Branda C. Maholtz - "poems" we are the strangers we've always been. in recent reaching out to say, "no, i do not think of you, but i have called to hear your voice." *** Maria Yoon - "Maria the Korean Bride" - videos & text Maria the Korean Bride challenges and explores what marriage is as I document my cross-country journey as a forever Korean bride in my Korean bridal garb. It includes my random marriage proposals, interviews with various participants and mock wedding ceremonial performances with them. When complete, Maria the Korean Bride will be a feature documentary including highlights from most of the fifty states where these marriages take place. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 07:59:09 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cris cheek Subject: Re: TNWK In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline http://www.yhchang.com/ has been making me laugh and marvel for years!!!! i totally recommend: Cunnilingus in North Korea, The Struggle Continues and Dakota c On Dec 20, 2007 5:59 AM, Jim Andrews wrote: > ya. i like it too, sometimes. > > here are some links to interesting net videos: > > DORON GOLAN > http://the9th.com > > BARBARA LATTANZI > http://www.wildernesspuppets.net/yarns/software.html > > PETER HORVATH > http://www.6168.org > > CHRIS JOSEPH > http://www.babel.ca/uixy > http://babel.ca > > > > > well constraints 'r' us > > and i like them too > > > > but i don't like big macs and i do like video > > > > guess it's hybridity > > > > ;) > > > > happy holidays > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 09:22:22 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: second life third life In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v915) second rate third life second life third rate life second rate third rate second life third second rate life third third second life rate life third rate second rate life third second &c. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 07:45:57 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: Librettos (fwd) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit You may consider Wagner a megalomaniac, if you like. But he wrote the greatest operas. Most opera composers need librettists, however. I suppose that is a good thing for poets. Having never written one, although I'd love to be asked to do so, I can't really say. Regards, Tom Savage Gabrielle Welford wrote: from a friend who composes and sings... best, g ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 12:46:20 -0700 From: Rebekah *These suggestions are all right as far as they go. "Repeat a lot" doesn't have to be a big part of it, though. The composer can pick and choose what tastily-written phrases to repeat; just provide some tastily-written ones to use. Remember that guttural G's are tough to repeat and they tend to take the voice back into the throat, which makes it hard to keep a smooth line to the singing ( i.e., keep the sound "up front" and "in the mask"). Also, the short "a" (as in "as") is a bitch to keep resonant, so try not to give a lot of important words--which will need to be held longer than other words--a lot of short "a" vowels. You can fudge better with the short "u" as in "us". * * The stuff on exposition is not necessarily true, if the composer is good at writing music for "recitative" as well as "aria". I think a better thing for the librettist to consider would be to write with fairly clear differentiation between what is "recitative" (dialogue, discussion, plot propulsion) writing and what is "aria" (stop-action for reflection, revelation, arrival at decision--i.e., emotional persuasion, recognition and release). Listen to/read libretti of Wagner for an almost complete lack of differentiation between the two (Wagner megalomaniacally considered everything he wrote as revelation, and he was his own librettist--a 19th Cent. pathology)--most of Wagner is recitative declamation slowed to the tempo of aria; listen to Mozart--esp. Le Nozze di Figaro--for a complete balance between the two; listen to/read libretti of Monteverdi's work for an almost complete lack of aria--the bulk of Monteverdi (very early opera) is recitative declamation of poetry with thin musical accompaniment (lute, one or two bass instruments, like the later Mozartean recitativo secco)...so the poetry is directly accessible. Listen to /read libretti of Puccini (he didn't write his own) for a late 19th-Cent. take on excellent balance between "recitative" and "aria"--his recitative is songlike but the plot advances well and rapidly. Listen to/read Four Saints in Three Acts by Virgil Thomson (libretto by Gertrude Stein) for a singsong/20th Cent. popsong approach to libretto craft. Listen to Candide for Bernstein's jazzy approach to neoclassical (the novel by Voltaire) operatic writing (pretty brilliant)... * * I guess it would be best to familiarize yourself with your composer's characteristic style(s) of both instrumental and vocal music, so the rhythm of your words in the characters' mouths will better magnetize themselves to your composer's music while you are creating those words, rather than as an afterthought. Like any poet--even if you aren't and are "just" a playwright--your words should be delicious to the composer and singers to say out loud in some way, and not just fine words.* ** * Hope this is helpful and not confusing. Best I can do.* > Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 10:40:37 -0800 > From: Hugh Behm-Steinberg > > Hi all, > > I've been invited to write a libretto and, never having written one > before, I was wondering if others on this list had any advice. So far > I've been told: > > 1. Use lots of vowels -- maximize assonance. > 2. Repeat a lot. > 3. Be short -- don't try to cram too much information or exposition in. > > Mostly I'm concerned with musciality (there's that theme again) -- what > works to make something more singable. > > Many thanks, > > Hugh Behm-Steinberg > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it > now. > -- Bekah bekah148@gmail.com In the Blessed Boonies --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 12:13:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: Hadrian's Last Poem, Albertus Magnus Cures Bronchitis, Chester the Turtle and Others Beckon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" for you to?e-visit?Joe Brainard's Pyjamas...where the high score on the Name that Poet Quiz has remained stalled at 5 points out of a possible?10. Who knows their poets inside and out? The gauntlet is down?at http://www.joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 09:58:26 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve russell Subject: Sasha Frere-Jones/Zepp MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Jones attended the concert. He explains his passion for Zeppelin in the current issue of the New Yorker. In the Days of My Youth While at the Led Zeppelin reunion concert, which I write about in this week’s column, I tried to guess at the median age of the crowd. I arrived, unscientifically and with the help of an English journalist, at fifty-five, with a smattering of twenty- or thirty-somethings and very few older than sixty. In terms of gender, the boys won hands down. I did see Pink running up and down the stairs, her hair and outfit all black. I did not see Michael J. Fox, however. The 02 Arena, built in 1999 to house the Millennium Experience, was supposedly designed for musical performances, but I don’t think much can be done with an enormous box that seats twenty-two thousand people. (If Zeppelin does decide to tour, let’s hope it does some secret small night-club gigs.) The venue fare, however, is above average in terms of beer—Boddingtons on tap—and you can get malt vinegar for your chips. (Please deposit refuse in the appropriate bin.) The surrounding 02 complex looks like a science museum that’s been eaten by a mini-mall. The giant holographic snowflakes might be seasonal; the big blue light globes are probably permanent. The names of the restaurants and shops are different from those of their American counterparts, and at least one night club on the premises—Urban Inc.—is a bit swankier than anything you’d find in an American mall or megavenue. It was there that the Zeppelin after-party was held, or at least the one hosted by the Warner Music Group. On the way to the party, I passed a fifty-something man wearing a red-and-white knit sweater bearing the ZOSO logo. I asked him where he’d got it. “Me mum, seventy-five,” he yelled, and it wasn’t clear whether he was talking about her age, the year she had knit it for him, or both. At the after-party, the biggest names I saw were Mark Ronson, the record producer and celebrity d.j.; Craig Kallman, the Atlantic Records executive; and Lyor Cohen, an executive at the Warner Music Group. The d.j. was spinning Atlantic hits from the past—Aretha Franklin, Rufus Thomas—and the walls were lined with posters for “Mothership,” the new Led Zeppelin greatest-hits compilation. Ahmet Ertegun may be gone and Zeppelin may have changed, but the catalogue remains the same. At the airport, on the way home, I stopped to buy the new album by England’s greatest band: Girls Aloud. (Oh, stop. The Beatles broke up.) I asked the clerk what was selling. “That Winehouse, still—loads of it,” he said. “Brilliant album.” (As with Britney in America, bad personal press cannot seem to keep a good record down.) What else? “Zeppelin—all of it. The greatest hits, the live one, all the old ones. Must have something to do with the show.” Might do. Permalink --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 16:02:29 -0500 Reply-To: az421@freenet.carleton.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: poetics.ca #8 finally on-line Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT newly released: Poetics.ca #8 - an online journal of canadian (mostly) poetics - with: Notation for Willing suspension of belief by Lawrence Upton Phil Halls surrural: Ontario gothic, the killdeer, the music of failure and the distraction of shifting ground by rob mclennan A De Tour by James Wilkes Going Round the Outside: Adam Dickinson by Tim Conley NAMING for Ricki Redhead by Lawrence Upton all previous issues still up at www.poetics.ca, including pieces on/by John Newlove, Rachel Zucker, rob mclennan, the Vehicule Poets, Carl Peters, kemeny babineau, John Barton, Erin Moure, Sharon Thesen, Adam Seelig, Gregory Betts, Andy Weaver, natalie stephens, Jon Paul Fiorentino, David McGimpsey, Margaret Christakos, Gil McElroy, etcetera. eds. Stephen Brockwell & rob mclennan managing editor + web design, Roland Prevost -- poet/editor/publisher ...STANZAS mag, above/ground press & Chaudiere Books (www.chaudierebooks.com) ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...13th poetry coll'n - The Ottawa City Project .... 2007-8 writer in residence, U of Alberta * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 14:28:28 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Chimera: I Am My Own Twin In-Reply-To: <605182.19858.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Featuring David Baratier Jeffery Beam John M. Bennett John Berndt Dan Breen David-Baptiste Chirot Mark Dickinson Adam Good Diana Bellessi translated by Cathy Eisenhower Raymond Farr Jamie Gaughran-Perez Amira Hanafi Jeff Harrison Amy King Richard Kostelanetz M. Magnus Megan McShea (with John Eaton) a.e.m. Tom Orange Ross Priddle Ric Royer Cole Swenson Chris Toll justin sirois Irving Weiss http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/thepixelplus/nhindex.html ~~~ --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 11:29:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Petra Kuppers Subject: call for proposals: Touching Time: Bodies/Writing/Histories. A practice-based research symposium MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Touching Time: Bodies/Writing/Histories. A practice-based research symposiu= m April 19th/20th, 2008 Dance Building, University of Michigan, Ann Arbor Keynote Provocation: Ann Cooper Albright, Professor of Dance, Oberlin Colle= ge Conference Team: Amy Carroll, Assistant Professor of English and American Culture (Latina/o Studies) Amy Chavasse, Assistant Professor of Dance Petra Kuppers, Associate Professor of English (Performance Studies/Disability Studies) Yopie Prins, Associate Professor of Comparative Literature In 2007, the University of Michigan hosted the Anarcha Project symposium: a large-scale event where black culture and disability culture activists, medical historians and performance scholars came together to approach a particular medical historical case-study through performance means. In 2008, we want to build on the methods explored in the Anarcha, and invite scholars and artists to engage in experimental historical writing and art practice. We invite up to twenty participants (grad students, faculty, artists) to come together for two days, to workshop, use performances and presentations as provocations, and explore methods of merging art practice and critical writing in the exploration of time. The historical topics we will explore are open, and will be determined by applicants=92 interests. The symposium=92s main focus is with innovative methodologies, writing-as-practice, archival embodiment, timespace poetics, repronarrativities, heirlooms/legacies, frottages with his(hiss)/her-stories, myth movement, touching textures. We will be in research practice together: this is not a conference to share the results of previous research. Thus, we are not looking for papers, we are looking for participants in this experiment. Each invitee will have transport and accommodation costs reimbursed up to $300 dollars. The conference hotel offers rooms for about sixty dollars a night, and we will assist people who want to be hosted by graduate students. Application Process: please send us a short CV, a sample of your writing (experimental, performative or traditional critical), and a brief statement about why you would like to participate. Alternatively, send a DVD or CD with performance or visual arts material, also accompanied by a statement. Send all materials to the symposium director: Petra Kuppers, petra@umich.edu, or to the snail mail address: Petra Kuppers, English Department, 3216 Angell Hall, University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI 48109-1003 Deadline: January 1st. Notification: January 15th. Funded by the Global Ethnic Literatures Seminar -- Petra Kuppers Associate Professor English, Theatre and Dance, Women's Studies 3216 Angell Hall University of Michigan Ann Arbor MI 48109-1003 office: 734-647-7672 mobile: 734-239-2634 home: 734-274-2705 email: petra@umich.edu homepage: www.umich.edu/~petra New Books: Community Performance: An Introduction, and The Community Performance Reader (both with Routledge) The Scar of Visibility: Medical Performances and Contemporary Art (University of Minnesota Press), http://www.upress.umn.edu/Books/K/ kuppers_scar.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 10:28:55 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: Librettos (fwd) In-Reply-To: <195253.69178.qm@web31102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Opera as an artform is the most likely to make me giggle uncontrollably, or go to sleep. (Even the worst plays don't send me to sleep). But it's also provided me with some great moments in the theatre. My problem is that I prefer it to be theatre, rather than a concert with expensive costumes. On the whole, I prefer chamber opera. xA On Dec 21, 2007 2:45 AM, Thomas savage wrote: > You may consider Wagner a megalomaniac, if you like. But he wrote the > greatest operas. Most opera composers need librettists, however. I suppose > that is a good thing for poets. Having never written one, although I'd love > to be asked to do so, I can't really say. Regards, Tom Savage > > Gabrielle Welford wrote: from a friend who composes > and sings... best, g > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 12:46:20 -0700 > From: Rebekah > > *These suggestions are all right as far as they go. "Repeat a lot" > doesn't have to be a big part of it, though. The composer can pick and > choose what tastily-written phrases to repeat; just provide some > tastily-written ones to use. Remember that guttural G's are tough to > repeat and they tend to take the voice back into the throat, which makes > it hard to keep a smooth line to the singing ( i.e., keep the sound "up > front" and "in the mask"). Also, the short "a" (as in "as") is a bitch to > keep resonant, so try not to give a lot of important words--which will > need to be held longer than other words--a lot of short "a" vowels. You > can fudge better with the short "u" as in "us". * > > * The stuff on exposition is not necessarily true, if the composer is good > at writing music for "recitative" as well as "aria". I think a better > thing for the librettist to consider would be to write with fairly clear > differentiation between what is "recitative" (dialogue, discussion, plot > propulsion) writing and what is "aria" (stop-action for reflection, > revelation, arrival at decision--i.e., emotional persuasion, recognition > and release). Listen to/read libretti of Wagner for an almost complete > lack of differentiation between the two (Wagner megalomaniacally > considered everything he wrote as revelation, and he was his own > librettist--a 19th Cent. pathology)--most of Wagner is recitative > declamation slowed to the tempo of aria; listen to Mozart--esp. Le Nozze > di Figaro--for a complete balance between the two; listen to/read libretti > of Monteverdi's work for an almost complete lack of aria--the bulk of > Monteverdi (very early opera) is recitative declamation of poetry with > thin musical accompaniment (lute, one or two bass instruments, like the > later Mozartean recitativo secco)...so the poetry is directly accessible. > Listen to /read libretti of Puccini (he didn't write his own) for a late > 19th-Cent. take on excellent balance between "recitative" and "aria"--his > recitative is songlike but the plot advances well and rapidly. Listen > to/read Four Saints in Three Acts by Virgil Thomson (libretto by Gertrude > Stein) for a singsong/20th Cent. popsong approach to libretto craft. > Listen to Candide for Bernstein's jazzy approach to neoclassical (the > novel by Voltaire) operatic writing (pretty brilliant)... * * I guess it > would be best to familiarize yourself with your composer's characteristic > style(s) of both instrumental and vocal music, so the rhythm of your words > in the characters' mouths will better magnetize themselves to your > composer's music while you are creating those words, rather than as an > afterthought. Like any poet--even if you aren't and are "just" a > playwright--your words should be delicious to the composer and singers to > say out loud in some way, and not just fine words.* ** * > > Hope this is helpful and not confusing. Best I can do.* > > > Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 10:40:37 -0800 > > From: Hugh Behm-Steinberg > > > > Hi all, > > > > I've been invited to write a libretto and, never having written one > > before, I was wondering if others on this list had any advice. So far > > I've been told: > > > > 1. Use lots of vowels -- maximize assonance. > > 2. Repeat a lot. > > 3. Be short -- don't try to cram too much information or exposition in. > > > > Mostly I'm concerned with musciality (there's that theme again) -- what > > works to make something more singable. > > > > Many thanks, > > > > Hugh Behm-Steinberg > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try > it > > now. > > > > > > -- > Bekah > bekah148@gmail.com > In the Blessed Boonies > > > > --------------------------------- > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. > -- Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:32:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetry Project Subject: Events at The Poetry Project January In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Hello Friends, We, the people of The Poetry Project, are going on a holiday. We will retur= n in time to host, along with the help of many great volunteers, The 34th Annual New Year=B9s Day Marathon Reading. Happy Holidays Tuesday, January 1, 2 PM The 34th Annual New Year's Day Marathon Reading Ring in the new year with: Philip Glass, Eric Bogosian, Ernie Brooks, Tony Towle, Open Music Ensemble, Brenda Coultas, John Godfrey, Patti Smith, Jordan Davis, David Henderson, Frank Sherlock, Rich O'Russa, David Mills, Jenny Smith,John Coletti, Johanna Fuhrman, Erica Doyle, Dan Machlin, Cat Tyc, Jessica Rogers, Renato Rosaldo, Stefania Iryne Marthakis, Rodrigo Toscano, Yoshiko Chuma, Elinor Nauen, Frances Richard, Phyllis Wat, Ed Friedman, Christina Strong, Stephanie Gray, Evan Kennedy, Lydia Cortes, Kim Rosenfield, Azareen Van Der Vliet Oloomi, Shanxing Wang, Lauren Russell, Marcella Durand, Marc Nasdor, Brendan Lorber, Alan Davies, Stephen Motika, Bob Rosenthal, Susie Timmons, Eliot Katz, Maggie Dubris, Peter Lucas Erixon= , Eve Packer, Chris Stackhouse, David Kirschenbaum, Bill Kushner, Tom Savage, Rob Fitterman, Cliff Fyman, Tara Betts, Jennifer Coleman, Allison Cobb, Jil= l Magi, Gillian McCain, Emily XYZ, Todd Colby, Elliott Sharp, Paolo Javier, Eileen Myles, John Giorno, Steve Earle, Donna Brook, Bob Hershon, Jen Benka= , Carol Mirakove, I Feel Tractor, Lenny Kaye, Anne Tardos, Sharon Mesmer, Gre= g Fuchs, Douglas Dunn, Wayne Koestenbaum, Renato Gomez, Rebecca Moore, Michae= l Cirelli, Joe Eliot, Tracey McTague, Jess Fiorini, Murat Nemet-Nejat, Vincen= t Katz, Merry Fortune, David Vogen, Geoffrey Cruickshank-Hagenbuckle, Jackie Sheeler, Penny Arcade, Michael Lydon, Filip Marinovic, Yuko Otomo, Steve Dalachinsky, Adeena Karasick, Barbara Henning, Tisa Bryant, Bruce Andrews, Sally Silvers, Corrine Fitzpatrick, Arlo Quint, Stacy Szymaszek, C.A. Conrad, Keith Roach, Daniel Higgs, John S. Hall, Maggie Estep, Michael Scharf, Wanda Phipps, Leonard Schwartz, Miles Champion, Citizen Reno, Jaime Manrique, Dael Orlandersmith, Uche Nduka, Laura Jaramillo, Nathaniel Siegel= , Jim Behrle, Anselm Berrigan, Dustin Williamson, Macgregor Card, John Coletti, Amelia Jackie, Simone White, Hal Sirowitz, Peter Bushyeager, Guillermo Castro, Simon Pettet, Max Winter, Tonya Foster, Judith Malina, Hanon Reznikov, Ted Greenwald, Patricia Spears Jones, Avram Fefer, Taylor Mead, Lee Ann Brown, Deniz=E9 Lauture, Thom Donovan, Franklin Bruno, Drew Gardner, Kyle Schlesinger, Don Yorty, Kimberly Lyons, Katie Degentesh, Tracie Morris, Val Jeanty, Chris Rael, Daniel Higgs, Sparrow/Foamola, Ben Malkin, Erika Recordon, M=F3nica de la Torre, Emil Bognar-Nasdor, Bob Holman, Janet Hamill, E. Tracy Grinnell, Nada Gordan, John S. Hall, Michael Brownstein, and Harris Schiff. General Admission $16 / Students & Seniors $12 / Members $10 Become a Poetry Project Member! http://poetryproject.com/membership.php Fall Calendar: http://www.poetryproject.com/calendar.php The Poetry Project is located at St. Mark's Church-in-the-Bowery 131 East 10th Street at Second Avenue New York City 10003 Trains: 6, F, N, R, and L. info@poetryproject.com www.poetryproject.com Admission is $8, $7 for students/seniors and $5 for members (though now those who take out a membership at $85 or higher will get in FREE to all regular readings). We are wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. For more info call 212-674-0910. If you=B9d like to be unsubscribed from this mailing list, please drop a line at info@poetryproject.com. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 00:13:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Librettos (fwd) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Tom: I agree about Wagner. His operas are a long way from just a concert with expensive costumes. But it's absolutely necessary to follow the libretto, at least the first time. Being a megalomaniac isn't exactly a disqualification in the arts. Wagner's among the best of the 19th Century. Alison: Do you feel the same about Mozart? Moussorgsky? Mark At 06:28 PM 12/20/2007, you wrote: >Opera as an artform is the most likely to make me giggle uncontrollably, or >go to sleep. (Even the worst plays don't send me to sleep). But it's also >provided me with some great moments in the theatre. My problem is that I >prefer it to be theatre, rather than a concert with expensive costumes. On >the whole, I prefer chamber opera. > >xA > >On Dec 21, 2007 2:45 AM, Thomas savage wrote: > > > You may consider Wagner a megalomaniac, if you like. But he wrote the > > greatest operas. Most opera composers need librettists, > however. I suppose > > that is a good thing for poets. Having never written one, > although I'd love > > to be asked to do so, I can't really say. Regards, Tom Savage > > > > Gabrielle Welford wrote: from a friend who composes > > and sings... best, g > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 12:46:20 -0700 > > From: Rebekah > > > > *These suggestions are all right as far as they go. "Repeat a lot" > > doesn't have to be a big part of it, though. The composer can pick and > > choose what tastily-written phrases to repeat; just provide some > > tastily-written ones to use. Remember that guttural G's are tough to > > repeat and they tend to take the voice back into the throat, which makes > > it hard to keep a smooth line to the singing ( i.e., keep the sound "up > > front" and "in the mask"). Also, the short "a" (as in "as") is a bitch to > > keep resonant, so try not to give a lot of important words--which will > > need to be held longer than other words--a lot of short "a" vowels. You > > can fudge better with the short "u" as in "us". * > > > > * The stuff on exposition is not necessarily true, if the composer is good > > at writing music for "recitative" as well as "aria". I think a better > > thing for the librettist to consider would be to write with fairly clear > > differentiation between what is "recitative" (dialogue, discussion, plot > > propulsion) writing and what is "aria" (stop-action for reflection, > > revelation, arrival at decision--i.e., emotional persuasion, recognition > > and release). Listen to/read libretti of Wagner for an almost complete > > lack of differentiation between the two (Wagner megalomaniacally > > considered everything he wrote as revelation, and he was his own > > librettist--a 19th Cent. pathology)--most of Wagner is recitative > > declamation slowed to the tempo of aria; listen to Mozart--esp. Le Nozze > > di Figaro--for a complete balance between the two; listen to/read libretti > > of Monteverdi's work for an almost complete lack of aria--the bulk of > > Monteverdi (very early opera) is recitative declamation of poetry with > > thin musical accompaniment (lute, one or two bass instruments, like the > > later Mozartean recitativo secco)...so the poetry is directly accessible. > > Listen to /read libretti of Puccini (he didn't write his own) for a late > > 19th-Cent. take on excellent balance between "recitative" and "aria"--his > > recitative is songlike but the plot advances well and rapidly. Listen > > to/read Four Saints in Three Acts by Virgil Thomson (libretto by Gertrude > > Stein) for a singsong/20th Cent. popsong approach to libretto craft. > > Listen to Candide for Bernstein's jazzy approach to neoclassical (the > > novel by Voltaire) operatic writing (pretty brilliant)... * * I guess it > > would be best to familiarize yourself with your composer's characteristic > > style(s) of both instrumental and vocal music, so the rhythm of your words > > in the characters' mouths will better magnetize themselves to your > > composer's music while you are creating those words, rather than as an > > afterthought. Like any poet--even if you aren't and are "just" a > > playwright--your words should be delicious to the composer and singers to > > say out loud in some way, and not just fine words.* ** * > > > > Hope this is helpful and not confusing. Best I can do.* > > > > > Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 10:40:37 -0800 > > > From: Hugh Behm-Steinberg > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > I've been invited to write a libretto and, never having written one > > > before, I was wondering if others on this list had any advice. So far > > > I've been told: > > > > > > 1. Use lots of vowels -- maximize assonance. > > > 2. Repeat a lot. > > > 3. Be short -- don't try to cram too much information or exposition in. > > > > > > Mostly I'm concerned with musciality (there's that theme again) -- what > > > works to make something more singable. > > > > > > Many thanks, > > > > > > Hugh Behm-Steinberg > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try > > it > > > now. > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Bekah > > bekah148@gmail.com > > In the Blessed Boonies > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. > > > > > >-- >Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au >Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com >Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 22:04:29 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jennifer Karmin Subject: MLA & Jasper Johns in Chicago MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit hi poetics friends....i encourage those coming to chicago for the mla to check out the big jasper johns show at the art institute. besides johns' own interesting use of text, you can see the poetry/art influence as johns refrences frank o'hara, ted berrigan, and hart crane. the chicago show is running through january 6th. or, if you're nyc folk, this show will be at the metropolitan museum of art from february 5 – may 4. onwards, jennifer karmin As one of the most acclaimed and influential living artists, Jasper Johns has been the subject of numerous exhibitions, many of which have explored his signature use of flags, numbers, and other emblems. This exhibition emerges from broader studies of Johns's approach to form, examining for the first time the artist's use of gray in his paintings, sculptures, prints, and drawings from 1955 to the present. Featuring more than 130 works and including major new works that have never been exhibited publicly, the exhibition tracks Johns's application of gray for more than five decades—an investigation that provides a framework for understanding the development of the artist's entire oeuvre. http://www.artic.edu/aic/exhibitions/jasperjohns/overview.html ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 22:19:08 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: AFP: Descendants of Sitting Bull, Crazy Horse break away from US MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5iVC1KMTOgwiSoMQyT2LwZc9HyAgA --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:36:30 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alexander Jorgensen Subject: Person of the Year In-Reply-To: Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 http://static.crooksandliars.com/2007/12/time-alternate.jpg as the year winds down, agj -- Alexander Jorgensen bangdrum@fastmail.fm -- http://www.fastmail.fm - The professional email service ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 10:26:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Re: MLA & Jasper Johns in Chicago MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I can second here, having seen the show about a year back in Cleveland. and, after seeing it, began to delve deeply into his published notebooks, seeing many references also to Pound--directly and indirectly. And, I could clearly see Ronald Johnson's interest in his work, production techniques. Gerald Schwartz > hi poetics friends....i encourage those coming to > chicago for the mla to check out the big jasper johns > show at the art institute. besides johns' own > interesting use of text, you can see the poetry/art > influence as johns refrences frank o'hara, ted > berrigan, and hart crane. > > the chicago show is running through january 6th. or, > if you're nyc folk, this show will be at the > metropolitan museum of art from february 5 - may 4. > > onwards, > jennifer karmin > > As one of the most acclaimed and influential living > artists, Jasper Johns has been the subject of numerous > exhibitions, many of which have explored his signature > use of flags, numbers, and other emblems. This > exhibition emerges from broader studies of Johns's > approach to form, examining for the first time the > artist's use of gray in his paintings, sculptures, > prints, and drawings from 1955 to the present. > Featuring more than 130 works and including major new > works that have never been exhibited publicly, the > exhibition tracks Johns's application of gray for more > than five decades-an investigation that provides a > framework for understanding the development of the > artist's entire oeuvre. > http://www.artic.edu/aic/exhibitions/jasperjohns/overview.html > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 07:40:50 -0800 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Subject: NEW CHIMERA ISSUE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Has a bunch of familiars in it, here is the info --------------- I apologize for all the caps, but...we're excited. http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/thepixelplus/nhindex.html (as always, if you see any errors, please tell me right away) Your Narrow House Friends, lauren justin jamie Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press 321 Empire Street Montpelier OH 43543 http://pavementsaw.org Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1 --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 10:47:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tracey Gagne Subject: Re: second life third life In-Reply-To: <295359D1-725A-46CA-8C69-91DCA472B052@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline what does all this say about the first one?? :) Tracey On Dec 20, 2007 10:22 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > second rate third life > second life third rate > life second rate third > rate second life third > second rate life third > third second life rate > life third rate second > rate life third second > &c. > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 08:56:44 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Nelson Subject: holiday disaster generator MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit All, Without bias, here is something terrible for all during these days between dec and jan. xmas disaster generator http://www.secrettechnology.com/xmas/creepyxmas.html cheers, Jason Nelson --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 12:00:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: chirality, in this space, MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed chirality, in this space, for 64 move upward 64 for 63 move rightward 63 for 62 move forward 62 for 61 move downward 61 for 60 move leftward 60 for 59 move backward 59 for 58 move upward 58 for 57 move rightward 57 for 56 move forward 56 for 55 move downward 55 for 54 move leftward 54 for 53 move backward 53 for 52 move upward 52 for 51 move rightward 51 for 50 move forward 50 for 49 move downward 49 for 48 move leftward 48 http://www.alansondheim.org/snowtop1.jpg http://www.alansondheim.org/snowtop2.jpg http://www.alansondheim.org/snowtop3.jpg http://www.alansondheim.org/snowtop4.jpg http://www.alansondheim.org/ghostalk1.mp3 http://www.alansondheim.org/ghostalk2.mp3 http://www.alansondheim.org/ghostalk3.mp3 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 12:55:08 -0500 Reply-To: az421@freenet.carleton.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: above/ground press 2008 subscriptions now available Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT whether new or renew; I'm still offering my usual annual $40 above/ground press subscription for 2008 (outside Canada, $40 US); current & forthcoming & recent publications by Margaret Christakos, rob mclennan, Andy Weaver, Jesse Ferguson, Nicholas Lea, Lea Graham, Max Middle, Jessica Smith, John Newlove, Stephanie Bolster, Stan Rogal, Gil McElroy, Jennifer Mulligan, Sharon Harris, Jan Allen, bpNichol, ryan fitzpatrick, Julia Williams, Shauna McCabe, Jordan Scott, George Bowering, Barry McKinnon, Cath Morris, Karen Clavelle, Amanda Earl, Marcus McCann, Wanda O'Connor, Kate Greenstreet, Rhonda Douglas, William Hawkins, Sandra Ridley, Fred Wah, Anita Dolman, Stephen Brockwell, Mari-Lou Rowley, Monty Reid, Rachel Zolf, Gwendolyn Guth, Natalie Simpson, derek beaulieu, Rob Budde, Christine Stewart, etcetera. give $40 to rob mclennan, or mail: c/o writer-in-residence, Department of English and Film Studies, University of Alberta, 3-5 Humanities Centre, Edmonton, AB T6G 2E5 for further recent titles, check out: http://www.abovegroundpress.blogspot.com/ -- poet/editor/publisher ...STANZAS mag, above/ground press & Chaudiere Books (www.chaudierebooks.com) ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...13th poetry coll'n - The Ottawa City Project .... 2007-8 writer in residence, U of Alberta * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 18:18:17 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cindy King Subject: Re: MLA & Jasper Johns in Chicago (For Free!) In-Reply-To: <476242.29759.qm@web31010.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jennifer and Everybody,=20 I just checkout out the Art Institute of Chicago site. If you're going to M= LA (and arriving on Thursday), you can see the exhibit (which is usually 12= clams!) for FREE from 5-8 pm (compliments of everyone's favorite discount = retailer, Target). Even if you're not into Jasper Johns, the museum's colle= ction is great. Be sure not to miss the Julian Opie mural in the museum's c= afe.=20 See y'all there,=20 Cindy (King) > Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 22:04:29 -0800 > From: jkarmin@YAHOO.COM > Subject: MLA & Jasper Johns in Chicago > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >=20 > hi poetics friends....i encourage those coming to > chicago for the mla to check out the big jasper johns > show at the art institute. besides johns' own > interesting use of text, you can see the poetry/art > influence as johns refrences frank o'hara, ted > berrigan, and hart crane. >=20 > the chicago show is running through january 6th. or, > if you're nyc folk, this show will be at the > metropolitan museum of art from february 5 =96 may 4. >=20 > onwards, > jennifer karmin >=20 > As one of the most acclaimed and influential living > artists, Jasper Johns has been the subject of numerous > exhibitions, many of which have explored his signature > use of flags, numbers, and other emblems. This > exhibition emerges from broader studies of Johns's > approach to form, examining for the first time the > artist's use of gray in his paintings, sculptures, > prints, and drawings from 1955 to the present. > Featuring more than 130 works and including major new > works that have never been exhibited publicly, the > exhibition tracks Johns's application of gray for more > than five decades=97an investigation that provides a > framework for understanding the development of the > artist's entire oeuvre.=20 > http://www.artic.edu/aic/exhibitions/jasperjohns/overview.html >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > ___________________________________________________________________= _________________ > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.=20 > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs _________________________________________________________________ The best games are on Xbox 360. Click here for a special offer on an Xbox = 360 Console. http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/wheretobuy/= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 14:14:14 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Do Some Last Minute Holiday Shopping! In-Reply-To: <605182.19858.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Changing the Present The gifts range from $6 for a stove for a family to $15 to help reduce carbon emissions to preparing for disasters (something Bush didn’t do!) for $30; click here to do your last minute tax-deductible holiday shopping: http://www.changingthepresent.org/ Cheers, Amy -- Reviews http://jacketmagazine.com/34/dickow-king.shtml http://reviews.coldfrontmag.com/2007/06/im_the_man_who_.html http://welcometoboogcity.com/boogpdfs/bc43.pdf Interviews http://www.loc.gov/poetry/poetpoem.html http://www.curvemag.com/Detailed/731.html http://wearduringorangealert.blogspot.com/2007/07/writers-corner_12.html Blog http://www.amyking.org/blog --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:45:23 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: second life third life In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v915) If by "the first one" you mean Alan's posting, nothing. Let's say it's just a riff on the subject line. Hal "Generally speaking anybody is more interesting doing nothing than doing anything." --Gertrude Stein Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Dec 21, 2007, at 9:47 AM, Tracey Gagne wrote: > what does all this say about the first one?? > :) > Tracey > > > On Dec 20, 2007 10:22 AM, Halvard Johnson > wrote: > >> second rate third life >> second life third rate >> life second rate third >> rate second life third >> second rate life third >> third second life rate >> life third rate second >> rate life third second >> &c. >> ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 10:34:48 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: Librettos (fwd) In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20071221000157.0671a8d8@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I was talking about productions, rather than the operas themselves. Opera is after all a performing art. I've seen gorgeous productions of Mozart (whom I particularly love) - a very memorable and enchanting one of The Magic Flute, for instance - and ones that sent me to sleep, like a recent Don Giovanni. One of the loveliest things I've ever seen was a production by William Kentridge (an artist I really love) of Monteverdi's The Return of Ulysses. And a Rake's Progress with a David Hockney set was also a beautiful thing. And yes, I'm afraid waves of sleep have overcome me in Wagner. All that lush music is fatal, and if there's nothing happening on stage except large people showing off their good posture and singing amid an overbearing set, then, well, that's the end of me... Even Robert Wilson at his worst can be a whole lot of colour and movement and nothing else, though I admit it's very spectacular colour and movement. But that's just me. As I said, I think the opera world is weird. But that doesn't mean that in theory I don't think it's a good idea. I've always been rather taken with Wagner's idea of total theatre. xA On Dec 21, 2007 4:13 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > Tom: I agree about Wagner. His operas are a long way from just a > concert with expensive costumes. But it's absolutely necessary to > follow the libretto, at least the first time. Being a megalomaniac > isn't exactly a disqualification in the arts. Wagner's among the best > of the 19th Century. > > Alison: Do you feel the same about Mozart? Moussorgsky? > > Mark > > > At 06:28 PM 12/20/2007, you wrote: > >Opera as an artform is the most likely to make me giggle uncontrollably, > or > >go to sleep. (Even the worst plays don't send me to sleep). But it's also > >provided me with some great moments in the theatre. My problem is that I > >prefer it to be theatre, rather than a concert with expensive costumes. > On > >the whole, I prefer chamber opera. > > > >xA > > > >On Dec 21, 2007 2:45 AM, Thomas savage wrote: > > > > > You may consider Wagner a megalomaniac, if you like. But he wrote the > > > greatest operas. Most opera composers need librettists, > > however. I suppose > > > that is a good thing for poets. Having never written one, > > although I'd love > > > to be asked to do so, I can't really say. Regards, Tom Savage > > > > > > Gabrielle Welford wrote: from a friend who > composes > > > and sings... best, g > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > > Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 12:46:20 -0700 > > > From: Rebekah > > > > > > *These suggestions are all right as far as they go. "Repeat a lot" > > > doesn't have to be a big part of it, though. The composer can pick and > > > choose what tastily-written phrases to repeat; just provide some > > > tastily-written ones to use. Remember that guttural G's are tough to > > > repeat and they tend to take the voice back into the throat, which > makes > > > it hard to keep a smooth line to the singing ( i.e., keep the sound > "up > > > front" and "in the mask"). Also, the short "a" (as in "as") is a bitch > to > > > keep resonant, so try not to give a lot of important words--which will > > > need to be held longer than other words--a lot of short "a" vowels. > You > > > can fudge better with the short "u" as in "us". * > > > > > > * The stuff on exposition is not necessarily true, if the composer is > good > > > at writing music for "recitative" as well as "aria". I think a better > > > thing for the librettist to consider would be to write with fairly > clear > > > differentiation between what is "recitative" (dialogue, discussion, > plot > > > propulsion) writing and what is "aria" (stop-action for reflection, > > > revelation, arrival at decision--i.e., emotional persuasion, > recognition > > > and release). Listen to/read libretti of Wagner for an almost complete > > > lack of differentiation between the two (Wagner megalomaniacally > > > considered everything he wrote as revelation, and he was his own > > > librettist--a 19th Cent. pathology)--most of Wagner is recitative > > > declamation slowed to the tempo of aria; listen to Mozart--esp. Le > Nozze > > > di Figaro--for a complete balance between the two; listen to/read > libretti > > > of Monteverdi's work for an almost complete lack of aria--the bulk of > > > Monteverdi (very early opera) is recitative declamation of poetry with > > > thin musical accompaniment (lute, one or two bass instruments, like > the > > > later Mozartean recitativo secco)...so the poetry is directly > accessible. > > > Listen to /read libretti of Puccini (he didn't write his own) for a > late > > > 19th-Cent. take on excellent balance between "recitative" and > "aria"--his > > > recitative is songlike but the plot advances well and rapidly. Listen > > > to/read Four Saints in Three Acts by Virgil Thomson (libretto by > Gertrude > > > Stein) for a singsong/20th Cent. popsong approach to libretto craft. > > > Listen to Candide for Bernstein's jazzy approach to neoclassical (the > > > novel by Voltaire) operatic writing (pretty brilliant)... * * I guess > it > > > would be best to familiarize yourself with your composer's > characteristic > > > style(s) of both instrumental and vocal music, so the rhythm of your > words > > > in the characters' mouths will better magnetize themselves to your > > > composer's music while you are creating those words, rather than as an > > > afterthought. Like any poet--even if you aren't and are "just" a > > > playwright--your words should be delicious to the composer and singers > to > > > say out loud in some way, and not just fine words.* ** * > > > > > > Hope this is helpful and not confusing. Best I can do.* > > > > > > > Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 10:40:37 -0800 > > > > From: Hugh Behm-Steinberg > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > I've been invited to write a libretto and, never having written one > > > > before, I was wondering if others on this list had any advice. So > far > > > > I've been told: > > > > > > > > 1. Use lots of vowels -- maximize assonance. > > > > 2. Repeat a lot. > > > > 3. Be short -- don't try to cram too much information or exposition > in. > > > > > > > > Mostly I'm concerned with musciality (there's that theme again) -- > what > > > > works to make something more singable. > > > > > > > > Many thanks, > > > > > > > > Hugh Behm-Steinberg > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. > Try > > > it > > > > now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Bekah > > > bekah148@gmail.com > > > In the Blessed Boonies > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. > > > > > > > > > > >-- > >Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au > >Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com > >Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com > -- Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 01:22:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Derivation of "Bug," telegraphy code, etc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Derivation of "Bug," telegraphy code, etc. "Bug" has been traced vis-a-vis computer folklore to early programming/ hardware/software/etc. as far back as the 1950s I believe. But recently I've come across a much earlier source. In The Telegraph Instructor, 4th and revised edition, 1908, G.M. Dodge gives a list of telegraph terms. "Bug-in-the-wire -- A slang phrase frequently used when a wire is in trouble." This relates to "buggy," "he's bugged," "stop bugging me," and so forth; what's interesting is the noun related to communications technology. In relation to computers, this might be a case of convergent evolution, but it's more likely to have moved through telegraphy - telephony - radio - and so forth, into the habitus of information theory and cybernetics. Another early term relates to the origins of "ham" in "ham radio" - although the exact source of this remains unknown: "'Ham' or 'Plug' -- A telegraph operator, who is not proficient." [A number of phrases we take for granted are older than they appear. For example, "so long"; from A. Wallace, Popular Sayings Dissected, 1895: "So long! a leave-taking, a piece of colonial terseness is equivalent to 'au revoir, saluons!' of which latter word it may be a direct corruption, or again of 'salaam,' a bow, or 'salem,' 'peace be with you.' The phrase may be paraphrased into 'Goodbye, so long as we do not meet.'"] On another related topic, early Morse code was somewhat different; there were all sorts of variations - Navy Codes, European Codes, Morse American codes, etc. The same book gives for example, "The Morse code of signals as applied to the telegraph is used exclusively in the United States." The code as given has three dash-lengths; for example, t is - but l is -- and 0 is ---- In addition, c is .. . that is, some letters have small breaks within them; while i is .. o is . . and y is .. .. and Further, there are some longer strings; ending parentheses ) is ..... .. .. and capitalized letters are indicated by .. . .-.. - so it goes. (Oddly this has been difficult to type, since I wanted to eliminate meta/diacritical marks which might have been taken as part of the code itself!) The actual telegraph (semantic) code on top of the Morse results in messages such as Wr r ty gg r 9 or Es r ty cn and addresses/headers can read as obscurely as Hr tru pink No 38 VO HW "HX" ck 12 collect N P R The code, like international signals codes, is heuristic, ideographic, and was simply memorized by the telegraph operator. It was just as complicated for railroad telegraphy, where the difference between 19 and 31 - both meaning "train order" - was complex. Note that this is triple-coding - Morse to telegraphic code to ordinary language, and that, while natural language is fond of redundancy (re: Shannon/Weaver), telegraphy is dominated by economic considerations. Thus word counts, and what constitutes a word, are critical. For example: Van Dorne - 1 word Queen Anne County - 3 words 44.12 - 5 words No. 185 22nd St - 8 words North Carolina - 1 word 10 000 000 - 8 words and so forth. The telegraph operator also had to understand railroad Engine Steam Whistle Signals; here are a few (o - short sound and --- long sound): o Stop. Apply breaks. --- --- Release Breaks. --- o o o Flagman go back and protect rear of train. --- --- --- --- Flagman return from west or south. --- --- --- --- --- Flagman return from east or north. --- --- --- When running, train parted; to be repeated until answered. o o Answer to any signal not otherwise provided for. --- --- o o Approaching public crossings at grade. o o o o Call for signals. Air whistles are different, as are torpedo signals, light signals, semaphore, etc. Service Message Code: N S N - No such number. G B A - Give better address. G S A - Give some address. DFS - Disregard former service. 92 - Deliver. Deld (or) 92d - Delivered. There is also Phillips Press Code - an example: "A dsx rain es wind storm psd tru t nt end o ta county tsm dsyg a gt deal o prpy, roofs wr bln off a no o sma blgs es nux trees wr uprtd. A barn blng to James Sampson ws stru by lghtg kig 3 horses es burng svl tons o hay stored trin." This is standardized, but formed, it seems, primarily by the elimination of redundancy. The header for the same example, however, is another thing: "o Hr tru No 39 VO HW "HX" ck 63 collect N P R" and so forth. - ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 09:20:26 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Susan Webster Schultz Subject: Sidewalk blogger news: the double-speak series MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit After a week away from the fences, the Sidewalk Blogger posted 10 signs last night in Kane`ohe and Kailua (thus expanding her territory). Two were lost overnight, but the others stood tall this morning when pictures were taken. Please have a look and send the photos around, but leave my name off. http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=21060&l=285f3&id=654553661 aloha, Susan ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 18:18:17 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve russell Subject: Jean Baudrillard on Hillary Clinton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit If the late Jean Baudrillard had managed to be coaxed into writing a piece about Hillary Clinton, it'd probably sound like Hillary Clinton has never existed. There is no point dreaming about a "real" Hillary Clinton, a hidden Hillary Clinton, an ideal socialist: this just hypostatizes a simulacrum. If Hillary Clinton is a simulation, the only likely turn of events is that of a brutal de-simulation, the social ceasing to take itself as a space of reference and to play the game, and putting an end at last to power, the effect of power and to the mirror of the social which perpetuates it. A desimulation which itself captures the style of a challenge... & so on...in the manner of Baudrillard's more effusive, bombastic style, a sort of bad writing contest... who can do the most pretentious Baudrillard? --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 20:48:31 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Crockett Subject: Listenlight Poetry taking on Wall Street and LiveJournal :-) Comments: To: wom-po@lists.usm.main.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hi All -- A side project including one of the super cool gurus at 37signals.com is http://commandshift3.com -- on which you can click "hot or not" websites. They're using some kind of Gen XYY reverse psychology to do something with the results, I would guess, tho it seems a great place to get on-the-spot impressions & design ideas. Anyhow, Listenlight Poetry in the "journal" tag category is, atm, beating The Wall Street Journal and Live Journal. Totally different demographics, of course, but here we have it. As well, the key trends are up since issue 06 (when we first got hit hard), I would estimate somewhere between 33 and 45 per cent since "version 2.0" issue 12. here's a screen capture of LL progress on the site after "22 battles" -- http://listenlight.net/media/listenlight_cmdshft3-122207.jpg (~150K) http://listenlight.net Now on quadrillion percent acid-free pages ! Please to be reading your work soon :-) ~Jess ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 22:42:01 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Patrick F. Durgin" Subject: Re: Sasha Frere-Jones/Zepp MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wow. He has been pretty sycophantic of late in his NYer columns, but this is everything that's wrong with music journalism. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 02:47:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: experiments in human transportation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed experiments in human transportation mocap, gunscan, bodyscan, and secondlife avatar meshes were moved as .obj files into blender for deconstruction; the consort is yamantaka-sheave; bodygun is from gun; bodyscan is from azure carter performer; involution is from motion-capture bvh into second life into blender somewhere among phallic hardening, womb, multiple faces, blown-apart gun- play, involuted cubes, somewhere among these lies http://www.alansondheim.org/bodyb.jpg http://www.alansondheim.org/bodygun.jpg http://www.alansondheim.org/involution.jpg http://www.alansondheim.org/consortt.jpg http://www.alansondheim.org/consorttt.jpg http://www.alansondheim.org/consortttt.jpg http://www.alansondheim.org/consorttttt.jpg experiments in human transportation ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 00:36:31 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Matt Henriksen Subject: Dustin Williamson's Exhausted Grunts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Announcing the release of Dustin Williamson's Exhausted Grunts 2 pages, side-stapled, $5 in a run of 75 copies from Cannibal Books made in our kitchen flesheatingpoems.blogspot.com flesheatingpoems@yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 10:26:09 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Samuel Wharton Subject: sawbuck poetry journal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline hello buffalo~ sawbuck is now reading for its 2008 issues. some things we are particularly looking for: collaborations, formal poetry, prose poetry, hybrid-genre pieces, "experimental" poetry (we don't know what exactly this means; the work should define it), series (or excerpts from), translations, anything else you can think of, provided it is well-written. please submit 6 or more unpublished poems in the body of a single email tosawbuck.editor@gmail.com . thank you for your time samuel wharton, editor ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 07:09:52 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabrielle Welford Subject: Re: AFP: Descendants of Sitting Bull, Crazy Horse break away from US In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT ain't that a kicker!!? i love it. g Gabrielle Welford, Ph.D. freelance writer, editor, teacher welford@hawaii.edu No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.412 / Virus Database: 268.18.4/705 - Release Date: 2/27/2007 On Thu, 20 Dec 2007, David Chirot wrote: > http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5iVC1KMTOgwiSoMQyT2LwZc9HyAgA --- > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 11:58:31 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Cunningham Subject: John Newlove review MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Would the Australian ezine that commissioned me to write a review of John Newlove`s recent selected poems please contact me at my email address of johncunningham366(at sign)mts.net The review is completed. I need to know where to send it. John Cunningham No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.6/1193 - Release Date: 22/12/2007 2:02 PM ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 10:28:37 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Re: "Wrack" image & Ruins, Wrecks & Runes//& a flickr gallery & essay link In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Many deepest thanks Stephen, Peter and Jim for your responses; they quite stunned me. I apologize the delay in responding. Wrote most of it and then interrupted for days before chance to "end it all." For some time, re language, i've been very interested in forgeries, plagiarisms, disinformation, pseudo- and anonymities, distranslations, propaganda, the combinings and recombinings of these and the ways these are used by governments, organizations, criminals and writers of everything from travel literature to history, fiction, textbooks and poetry. Paranoiac and conspiratorial manifestations of language, the hallucinations of lexicons, the detritus of cast off "figures of speech," anachronisms, nostrums, the junkyards of terminologies surpassed--all this is not simply raw material for use, but also i think contains much of use in examining and thinking with writing and reading. The bottom line is really "belief"--credere--which shares a root with "credit." "Did you buy her story?" As in believe it--and/or purchase it. "So and-so says--" "how much is his word worth?" "How much stock do you put in that line of reasoning, of poetry?" " "I wouldn't give a wooden nickel for his opinion." "The New Sentence is more valuable as a tool than the old." "The liberating value of these poems is not to be measured in the counting of their syllabic units." "Ironically, the unique flaws of the forgery proved more valuable than its mundane original." "In the market of ideas, he's not much more than a thief." "Is there more value to those vast acres if Nature is a construct of language or if it is not?" The idea of an, unmediated, immediate apprehension/communication obsessed me a as child, and, later, learning it was a kind of a "dream," a "Utopian yearning," found through human history, it still remains a fascinating question, and one which finds its companion so to speak in desire, when intercourse as "conversation" turns to intercourse as "consummation." Persons like Ted Serios, who could "project" an image from his mind directly on/into photographic image seemed a "step in the right direction," however flawed it might be. (And was.) Though i still like to look at those strange images he projected from his mind--not to mention the incredible amount of work it took to come up with what were claimed to be the "original" images--or ones certainly seeming as if they could be. Images which--well, where did they come from, as places he had never been? Judging from the low-fi quality of the Serios images--dim, jerky, faraway-- perhaps they came from street found newspapers, limmed with dirt, sun-yellowed or rain-blurred, or library reading room encyclopedias, their images thick with the oily patinas of hundreds of dubiously sanitary fingerprints, or random but "startling" things found in the trash . . . The image files of the brain as a vast rubbish heap, like those ancient Egyptian city dumps in which the ratty recycled papyri of "expendable mummies" rattle in dry winds among feral cats, bearing the verses of Sappho . . . It's often interesting to take statements and reverse them, asking--whom would this benefit? For example: nature is a construction. One could examine this in terms of in what ways and for whom it is a benefit to think/believe this. One might also say: is this not the same sign of hubris which placed humans at the center of the universe? That it is "constructed" by "us"? One could posit it instead as: humans are a construction of nature. Or: construction is human nature. There is a sign often found in offices, a chilling reminder: "If it's not in writing, it never happened." One could reverse this and say, "If it's in writing, it never happened." Again, one thinks--who benefits? I.E.--who is it "good" for? The "common good"--a sort of play on the Socratic good Jim writes of? (Something which is a "good" common in all cases.) As in Orwell's Animal Farm, "good" usually winds up like "equality": "All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others." Baudelaire wrote of language as a forest of symbols (the birth of Symbolism) and from there evolved his theory of Correspondances. Baudelaire also grasped right away who the telegraph would be "good" for: in his notebooks he writes that for stock market traders and bankers, whoever has the most immediate access to the fastest information will have the "inside edge" so to speak of the "insider trader." For the poet, the telegraph is already the "information highway" of the "robber barons." And, though that's an American term, one of those Baudelaire mentions did have a "real" baron-connection: M. de Rothchild. This could be thought of a "trans-continental," trans-lingual" "correspondance" of "(robber) Barons"--the globalization of the new "Nobility" (a play itself on the"noble" as a version of the "good") manifested in the penchant of the Biggest Robbers for the Biggest Philanthropy, to further emphasize that, indeed, some truly are "more" "Noble" than others. Emerson's "Nature" is an extraordinary essay. In trying to find what will enable the citizens of the young United States to establish their own "Original relation with the Universe," Emerson chooses not things human-made (mostly as yet derived from forms from elsewhere), but (American) Nature. To Paraphrase: The blank and ruin we see in Nature is in our own eye. It is because the American eye is as yet too set on seeing-as-projecting other values, from the past, from other cultures, as a grid of comparisons in which an American Nature is found "wanting," that what IS there is unseen. (The anti-Transcendental Poe finds this as "The Purloined Letter.") A "virtual" reality of non-American vision misses what is hidden in plain site/sight/cite so to speak. For Emerson, the figure of "The Poet" is the one who will help lead the way to the finding of this "original relation to the Universe" via an "original" Nature. And that Poet he at first thought had appeared, almost as though he had been summoned, in the quasi-anonymous author of "Leaves of Grass." Emerson was writing just at the cusp of some older American Wonders becoming Tourist Sites (Niagara Falls, The Old Man of the Mountain, etc) and the movements West to the truly Grand Canyonesque, Mississippi sized Wonders, the Paul Bunyanesque Giganticism of Sequoias, Great Lakes, the Rockies, not to mention Texas, the Pacific Sublime, Volcanos, Tornados, Massacres, Buffalo- Herds,---the Natural examples for such behemoths as Standard Oil, Transcontinental Railroads, Empire State Building, and poetic Giganticisms such as Whitman',s Pound's and Olson's, Williams' Paterson and the Long Poems recently discussed here The lack of "picturesque ruins, ancient buildings, Old Masters," is more than made up for by the sheer Gigantic Grandeur of American Nature, from which will emerge a new vision of the Sublime. (Think of the Giganticism of American painting, sculpture, Hollywood, the Great American Novel---) Emerson's famous letter to Whitman on first reading Leaves, after having found out who and where the Poet was, Whitman quickly took advantage of to publicize his basically self-published book length song of "Myself." (Self publishing and vanity publishing having something in common so to speak.) In effect, Whitman "seized the day" and "replaced" Nature with himself as Kosmos and the USA as "the Greatest Poem" which fills the American space formerly seen as a blank and ruin. "SPACE," after all still being for Olson a century stll later the "central fact" of America. For Olson Whitman is replaced by Melville & Moby Dick, then Maximus, with Creeley as "Figure of Outward." The other side of this appetite for the Super Sized (think Steroid-Sized Superstars, the new Paul Bunyans,) is the the Minimal--Poe's theory of the short story, the short poem and Emily Dickinson's creation of universes within the ever shifting minutia of handwriting, the subtly or dramatically changing punctuation marks, dashes, the handmade small folded books hidden in drawers-- Which with Robert Smithson returns as a "Spiral Jetty" bringing one back out into Earth Works--the meeting places of the immensely small and the immensely large, the wastelands of technology as ruins and deserts as blanks, "where remote pasts meet remote futures" and-where the re-cycling of Earth Works is "Nature" re-found as Ecology. Thoreau, who "traveled much in Concord," foresaw this: "In wildness is the preservation of the world." The "wildness" he finds is very interesting--the Spiral Jetty recycling of the omnipresent Greek and Roman Classics into his self-built shelves!! In a way very Voltairean, like Candide, Thoreau's "cultivating his own garden" at Walden Pond and supplementing his beans with Seneca, Socrates and others. Hawthorne, who also grew his own vegetables and collected nuts and berries while living as a neighbor of Melville's--used to read the Transcendentalists' journal The' Dial for its excellence as a soporific. Nothing to induce a nap in an allegorist like Hawthorne than the turning of the world into a symbol of spirit! Poe, who hated Boston as the place of both his birth and his mother's death, called the Transcendendalists the "Frog-Pondians." ( Desire is Poe's work is repetitively that for a beautiful dying woman, poised between life and death--then dying- -followed by poet's "after effects" existence of "Mournful and Never-Ending Remembrance"-----his "most poetical" of themes as described in "Philosophy of Composition"----not to mention his marrying his 13 or 14 year old cousin and watching her slowly die of "Consumption," as years earlier he had watched his brother die of the same disease in a tiny attic in Baltimore. The latest rage in Poe's day was the construction of cemeteries--Mt Auburn on the boundary of Cambridge and Watertown, MA is the template--as simultaneously places of "Mournful & Never-Ending Remembrance," and the health giving effects of walking in a vast arboretum of native and imported trees, flowers, types of stone and art work as "figured" in statues, vaults' engravings,and the decorative expressionisms of metal designs in the small fences around separate plots. Ornate benches in many materials distributed along curving and sloping walkways gave the opportunity for contemplation of Eternity as well as of the Transient Beauties of Nature. The "uplift" of "Moral Suasion" and Good Air and Walking --again, the "good," the "virtuous"--all supposed to confer upon the citizen a desire to move from the cramped city to the suburbs beckoning just the other side of the vast park-like Cemetery. And this, indeed, is what happened. It was not only the living who had to be encouraged to move--there was simply no more room left in Boston's ancient, overcrowded cemeteries, and the dead, too, had to find "a new place to live," "room to breathe." With all that "retirement" "time on their hands," why not install a phone to keep up with the gossip back in "dear old Boston" and at the Christian Science Monitor offices and buildings? Some decades after the cemetery's founding, Mary Baker Eddy did just this when she willed that a telephone be installed along with her body in the Vault she had prepared. After all, this new means of "speaking at a distance." might well include the "long distance" of what Raymond Chandler called "The Big Sleep." The gateway to Eternity--and the gateway to Suburbia!! And passing from one to the other via the statued and tree shaded walkways of the outdoor gallery of the Art of Nature and that of human hands. And, by virtue of the virtual telephonic voice, the Eternal dead and the Suburban living carrying on intimate intercourse across the "emptiness of these vast spaces" that so frightened Pascal. One wonders if Poe's efforts to "keep in touch" with the "beautiful dying women" who pass into the "Mournful never-Ending Remembrance" of the Raven's squawking "Nevermore!" might then be resolved via the intimate intercourse of phone sex! The virtual as not simply "Spirit" and spirituality--but the contacting of spirits--and the making "virtuous" of Necrophilia. From Table-tapping to Wire Tapping!!!! Big Brother Was a mother- But Uncle Sam Is a Dirty Old Man! On Dec 19, 2007 12:00 AM, Jim Andrews wrote: > That's a terrific essay, David. And some fascinating quotations, as well, > such as Emerson's "Words are signs of natural facts." Which reminds me of > a > related sentiment expressed by Socrates. Perhaps it was in the Republic, > but > it could have been in any number of the dialogues because Socrates and > some > straw man were discussing the 'nature' of 'the good'. Socrates was seeking > a > definition. The straw man gave examples of good things, good people, good > familial relations, etc. Socrates said (and I paraphrase) "great, but I'm > looking for what's common to all these examples. There must be something > common to them, musn't there? Or we wouldn't use the same word to describe > > them: good." > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 14:07:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Jean Baudrillard on Hillary Clinton In-Reply-To: <601323.27836.qm@web52411.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Steve, Can anyone but Baudrillard win this contest? It is exactly this kind of mumbo jumbo -an example of it being that Gore is the same as Bush- that led to the disasters of the last seven years? Murat On Dec 22, 2007 9:18 PM, steve russell wrote: > If the late Jean Baudrillard had managed to be coaxed into writing a piece > about Hillary Clinton, it'd probably sound like > > > Hillary Clinton has never existed. There is no point dreaming about a > "real" Hillary Clinton, a hidden Hillary Clinton, an ideal socialist: this > just hypostatizes a simulacrum. If Hillary Clinton is a simulation, the only > likely turn of events is that of a brutal de-simulation, the social ceasing > to take itself as a space of reference and to play the game, and putting an > end at last to power, the effect of power and to the mirror of the social > which perpetuates it. A desimulation which itself captures the style of a > challenge... > > & so on...in the manner of Baudrillard's more effusive, bombastic style, a > sort of bad writing contest... who can do the most pretentious Baudrillard? > > > --------------------------------- > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! > Search. > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 13:10:58 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: French Hermit And Surreal Writer Gracq Dies Age 97 - New York Times MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/arts/entertainment-france-gracq.html --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 18:20:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: I'm just a collection, agency, Convolute, don't let me fail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Convolute, don't let me fall. Dear God, don't let me fail. Dear God, I know I'm a nuisance, honest I am. Dear God, I'm just a collection, agency. Dear Azure, you are perfect smart performer! Dear David, how are you, thank you for the film! Dear Leslie, I slept beneath the teapot. Dear Robert, I shall get to your books and guitar. Dear Tom, your books have gotten to me, mind! Dear God, don't let me fail. Dear God, I'm passing out of this world. Dear God, an other waits for no one. Dear Joanna, you are family's end, poet, thank you! Dear Mark, you are family family's end, superior! Dear Eugene, what a ride and book! Dear God, don't let me fail. Dear God, I let you down. Dear God, I'm five useless aggregates. Dear God, I'm just a collection, agency. Dear Tyler, there are many skies. Dear David, what film? Dear Lord, your name is God. Dear Gabe, that road's got your name on it. Dear Jon, names fell on the ground. Dear God, don't let me fail. Dear God, http://www.alansondheim.org/gunned.jpg Dear God, I wish names were things. Dear God, I wish your name so! Dear God, I don't have names. Dear Ellen, 215th radical. Dear Maria, Walter and Karl say hello. Dear Sandy, Kraus, not Marx, cancel out. Dear Foofwa, GrouchoCouchGrouchDouch. Dear Nikuko, don't let me fail. Dear Jennifer, don't let me down. Dear Julu, don't let me fall. Dear Alan, the world's wounds down. metaballs accorded to transformation of a cube http://www.alansondheim.org/involute2.jpg http://www.alansondheim.org/involute2field.jpg and thereby the forcefields in evidence ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 17:12:19 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve russell Subject: Re: Jean Baudrillard on Hillary Clinton In-Reply-To: <1dec21ae0712231107k79e380d3j19813439559844b1@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Baudrillard was especially silly when he spoke of Africans. It was as though he had never seen a black person before. Imagine Jimmy the Greek if he had read a few books. Although I sometimes enjoyed Baudrillard and regarded him as a nihilistic Marshall Mcluhan, at his worst, he lapsed into self-parody. Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: Steve, Can anyone but Baudrillard win this contest? It is exactly this kind of mumbo jumbo -an example of it being that Gore is the same as Bush- that led to the disasters of the last seven years? Murat On Dec 22, 2007 9:18 PM, steve russell wrote: > If the late Jean Baudrillard had managed to be coaxed into writing a piece > about Hillary Clinton, it'd probably sound like > > > Hillary Clinton has never existed. There is no point dreaming about a > "real" Hillary Clinton, a hidden Hillary Clinton, an ideal socialist: this > just hypostatizes a simulacrum. If Hillary Clinton is a simulation, the only > likely turn of events is that of a brutal de-simulation, the social ceasing > to take itself as a space of reference and to play the game, and putting an > end at last to power, the effect of power and to the mirror of the social > which perpetuates it. A desimulation which itself captures the style of a > challenge... > > & so on...in the manner of Baudrillard's more effusive, bombastic style, a > sort of bad writing contest... who can do the most pretentious Baudrillard? > > > --------------------------------- > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! > Search. > --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 21:25:41 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Ciccariello Subject: Re: "Wrack" image & Ruins, Wrecks & Runes//& a flickr gallery & essay link In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline David, I now live across the street from the Westford cemetery in Connecticut whic= h I imagine was pre-"Mournful & Never-Ending Remembrance," lacking the arboreal trappings but ripe for your rubBEings described by Geoff Huth as "raucous" and "muddy frottages". This particular morning(see attached) bright and crisp, with ice and snow. I began to notice my language when confronted by these stark objects =96 slate, granite, incised, chiseled rectangular, lichen, trying to linger in the pure experience of vision as long as I could before my language took over. Graves, tombstones, frost, and then the names =96 "Polly", "James", "Abigail=85" Martin Heidegger noted this "first time": "Language, by naming beings for the first time, first brings beings to word and to appearance." And he continues; " Only this naming nominates beings t= o their being from out of their being." As you said " Again, one thinks--who benefits?" How exactly does language grab the object from the blur and bring it into being? At what point does the brain deconstruct the cemetery into the objects that populate it? As Peter Schwenger says in *"The tears of things"= : * "The death of the thing then, is the price we pay for the word." The poetry in your process appears to be the salvaging of discarded language, reprocessing, recycling the useless by bringing it into being again. When I photograph the headstones carvings and other bits of found text and reparse in 3-D worlds, the reparse points reflect the original contexts and indicate the locations and meanings from which the external information has be taken. The act of layering, of montage, represents the function of time as in the moving from one bit of dissociate text to another. - Peter Ciccariello --=20 NEW RELEASE UNCOMMON VISION - The Art of Peter Ciccariello http://uncommon-vision.blogspot.com/ 66 pp. 42 color plates. On Dec 23, 2007 1:28 PM, David Chirot wrote: > Many deepest thanks Stephen, Peter and Jim for your responses; they quite > stunned me. I apologize the delay in responding. Wrote most of it and > then > interrupted for days before chance to "end it all." ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 21:51:34 EST Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: Re: Jean Baudrillard on Hillary Clinton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Baudrillard was also very ugly when he spoke of the differently-abled, those with serious physical infirmities. But then they were, like everything to him apparently, convenient metaphors to be deployed in a particularly ugly argument (I am thinking of one of his semiotexte books). **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 22:13:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tracey Gagne Subject: Re: second life third life In-Reply-To: <09F6B64A-48D5-4450-B5A3-647A6151692B@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I thought the poem was really cool, by the way.... No, I was referring to the web craze second life, as it's been a topic of conversation with many of my friends lately, especially as I know several people with loved ones who spend more time in their "second life" than their first. I also have a friend who showed the site to me. He uses it quite a lot, too. On Dec 21, 2007 5:45 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > If by "the first one" you mean Alan's posting, > nothing. Let's say it's just a riff on the subject > line. > > Hal > > "Generally speaking anybody is more > interesting doing nothing than doing > anything." > --Gertrude Stein > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard@earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > On Dec 21, 2007, at 9:47 AM, Tracey Gagne wrote: > > > what does all this say about the first one?? > > :) > > Tracey > > > > > > On Dec 20, 2007 10:22 AM, Halvard Johnson > > wrote: > > > >> second rate third life > >> second life third rate > >> life second rate third > >> rate second life third > >> second rate life third > >> third second life rate > >> life third rate second > >> rate life third second > >> &c. > >> > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 00:40:00 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nico Vassilakis Subject: poetry videos: a distractive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://www.youtube.com/nicovassilakis = ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 09:33:11 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: French Hermit And Surreal Writer Gracq Dies Age 97 - New York Times In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I found translations of a couple of his novels in google books but I haven't been able to pull up any poetry in translation. From what I read calling him a surrealist & comparing him to Breton is a bit of a stretch. Anybody know of a link or two? On Dec 23, 2007, at 3:10 PM, David Chirot wrote: > http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/arts/entertainment-france-gracq.html > --- > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 12:25:30 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve russell Subject: A Christmas Story by Jeanette Winterson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit anything by Jeanette Winterson is worth reading. My Christmas Short Story is now available on the site. Click here to read it now. Merry Christmas Forward email This email was sent to poet_in_hell@yahoo.com, by mailinglist@jeanettewinterson.com Update Profile/Email Address | Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe™ | Privacy Policy. Email Marketing by Jeanette Winterson | CO Pedalo Limited | 114 Power Road | Power Road Studios | London | England | W4 5PY | United Kingdom --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 15:36:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ryan Daley Subject: Re: Jean Baudrillard on Hillary Clinton In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Differently-abled? That's new. On Dec 23, 2007 9:51 PM, W.B. Keckler wrote: > Baudrillard was also very ugly when he spoke of the differently-abled, > those > with serious physical infirmities. > > But then they were, like everything to him apparently, convenient > metaphors > to be deployed in a particularly ugly argument (I am thinking of one of > his > semiotexte books). > > > > **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes > (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 12:56:42 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve russell Subject: Oscar Peterson, 82, has died/ is mourned by French MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit French President Nicolas Sarkozy mourns his loss. It's doubtful that an American politician would recognize the name. Jazz great Oscar Peterson dies at 82 By ROB GILLIES, Associated Press Writer 3 minutes ago TORONTO - Oscar Peterson, whose early talent, speedy fingers and musical genius made him one of the world's best known jazz pianists, died at age 82. ADVERTISEMENT &lt;script language="JavaScript" type="text/javascript"&gt;document.write('&lt;a href="http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12hkudk5d/M=571036.11071258.11647296.1414694/D=news/S=46079015:LREC/_ylt=ApnqymAU.R37gyZQ.PLg3wcnHL8C/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1198536389/A=4303781/R=1/SIG=12kupb04i/*http://clk.atdmt.com/HLC/go/yhxxxllc0170000019hlc/direct/01/?time=1198529189044473" target="_blank"&gt;&lt;img src="http://view.atdmt.com/HLC/view/yhxxxllc0170000019hlc/direct/01/?time=1198529189044473"/&gt;&lt;/a&gt;');&lt;/script&gt;&lt;noscript&gt;&lt;a href="http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12hkudk5d/M=571036.11071258.11647296.1414694/D=news/S=46079015:LREC/_ylt=ApnqymAU.R37gyZQ.PLg3wcnHL8C/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1198536389/A=4303781/R=2/SIG=12kupb04i/*http://clk.atdmt.com/HLC/go/yhxxxllc0170000019hlc/direct/01/?time=1198529189044473" target="_blank"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="http://view.atdmt.com/HLC/view/yhxxxllc0170000019hlc/direct/01/?time=1198529189044473" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/noscript&gt; if(window.yzq_d==null)window.yzq_d=new Object(); window.yzq_d['MvZnU0LEYrg-']='&U=13bummmr3%2fN%3dMvZnU0LEYrg-%2fC%3d571036.11071258.11647296.1414694%2fD%3dLREC%2fB%3d4303781'; His death was confirmed by Neweduk Funeral Home in Mississauga, the Toronto suburb where Peterson lived. The city's mayor, Hazel McCallion, told The Associated Press that he died of kidney failure but that she did not know when. The hospital and police refused to comment. The Canadian Broadcasting Corp. reported that he died on Sunday. "He's been going downhill in the last few months, slowing up," McCallion said, calling Peterson a "very close friend." During an illustrious career spanning seven decades, Peterson played with some of the biggest names in jazz, including Ella Fitzgerald, Count Basie and Dizzy Gillespie. He is also remembered for touring in a trio with Ray Brown on bass and Herb Ellis on guitar in the 1950s. Peterson's impressive collection of awards include all of Canada's highest honors, such as the Order of Canada, as well as a Lifetime Grammy (1997) and a spot in the International Jazz Hall of Fame. His growing stature was reflected in the admiration of his peers. Duke Ellington referred to him as "Maharajah of the keyboard," while Count Basie once said "Oscar Peterson plays the best ivory box I've ever heard." In a statement, French President Nicolas Sarkozy said "one of the bright lights of jazz has gone out." "He was a regular on the French stage, where the public adored his luminous style," Sarkozy said. "It is a great loss for us." Jazz pianist Marian McPartland called Peterson "the finest technician that I have seen." McPartland said she first met Peterson when she and her husband, jazz cornetist Jimmy McPartland, opened for him at the Colonial Tavern in Toronto in the 1940s. "From that point on we became such goods friends, and he was always wonderful to me and I have always felt very close to him," she said. "I played at his tribute concert at Carnegie Hall earlier this year and performed `Tenderly,' which was always my favorite piece of his." The American jazz pianist Billy Taylor called Peterson one of the finest jazz pianists of his time. "He set the pace for just about everybody that followed him. He really was just a special player," Taylor said. Born on Aug. 15, 1925, in a poor neighborhood southwest of Montreal, Peterson obtained a passion for music from his father. Daniel Peterson, a railway porter and self-taught musician, bestowed his love of music to his five children, offering them a means to escape from poverty. Oscar Peterson learned to play trumpet and piano at a young age, but after a bout with tuberculosis had to concentrate on the latter. He became a teen sensation in his native Canada, playing in dance bands and recording in the late 1930s and early 1940s. But he got his real break as a surprise guest at Carnegie Hall in 1949, after which he began touring the United States and Europe. He quickly made a name for himself as a jazz virtuoso, often compared to piano great Art Tatum, his childhood idol, for his speed and technical skill. He was also influenced by Nat King Cole, whose Nat King Cole Trio album he considered "a complete musical thesaurus for any aspiring Jazz pianist." Peterson never stopped calling Canada home despite his growing international reputation. But at times he felt slighted here, where he was occasionally mistaken for a football player, standing at 6 foot 3 and more than 250 pounds. In 2005 he became the first living person other than a reigning monarch to obtain a commemorative stamp in Canada, where he is jazz royalty, with streets, squares, concert halls and schools named after him. Peterson suffered a stroke in 1993 that weakened his left hand, but not his passion or drive for music. Within a year he was back on tour, recording "Side By Side" with Itzhak Perlman. As he grew older, Peterson kept playing and touring, despite worsening arthritis and difficulties walking. "A jazz player is an instant composer," Peterson once said in a CBC interview, while conceding jazz did not have the mass appeal of other musical genres. "You have to think about it, it's an intellectual form," he said. ___ AP reporter Lily Hindy in New York contributed to this story. ___ On the Net: Oscar Peterson home page: http://www.oscarpeterson.com Canadian Broadcasting Corp. interview: http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/peterson_oscar Email Story IM Story Printable View RECOMMEND THIS STORY [input] [input] [input] [input] [input] [input] [input] [input] [input] Recommend It: Average (92 votes) » Recommended Stories Entertainment News Jazz great Oscar Peterson dies at 82 AP Washington looks to stay behind camera AP James Brown estate still on the bad foot AP Yung Joc arrested at Cleveland airport AP `Juno' opens doors for Diablo Cody AP Most Viewed: Entertainment Filmmakers have more than a feeling about Boston Reuters Confessions on MySpace Dear Margo Caroline Kennedy remembers JFK letter AP High-Class Worries, as My Dad Used To Say Dear Margo Report: Heigl marries musician Kelley AP Entertainment Video Stars reveal their Christmas plans, presents AP - Mon Dec 24, 12:40 PM ET 'Treasure' finds $45M in box office gold AP - 2 hours, 46 minutes ago Hot List: Hottest of 2007, Part I AP - Mon Dec 24, 11:20 AM ET Hot List: Hottest of 2007, Part II AP - Mon Dec 24, 12:26 PM ET Sponsored Links ( What's this? ) Biltmore in Asheville, NC Get All Day Access to the Estate & Candlelight Christmas Evenings. www.Biltmore.com Rent Elegant South Padre Island Condos Stay in a new beautifully decorated 1 or 2 bedroom condo on So. 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Music Final Bow Exclusive video of Celine Dion's last Las Vegas performance. --> Elsewhere on the Web CNN.com: Chuck Norris says book is not 'Truth' ABC News: Even Celebrities 'Do It' for Attention USATODAY.com: Network and cable prime-time highlights for Tuesday ADVERTISEMENT // // (c) 2007 adInterax, All Rights Reserved, http://adinterax.com // LOAD THIS PAGE INSIDE THE IFRAME //adx_U_3983="[ your-click-through-URL-goes-here ]"; adx_D_3983="http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12hgttkvl/M=557574.11624370.12118294.7195156/D=news/S=46079015:MIP1/_ylt=Aoto97x_p6P531t6tjw_fagnHL8C/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1198536389/A=5044887/R=0/*"; //adx_I_3983="[ your-impression-track-pixel-URL-goes-here ]"; adx_data_3983="A=6,AN=Y_Food_Meal%2fY_Food_Meal_180x150,AC=,AV=,PB=1/SIG=14f9kg8bg,X=1198529189,B=5044887,C=557574.11624370.12118294.7195156,D=MIP1,Z=,R=news,P=yQtMLkWTcur5D7BCRZlanQS2RDAmakdwGqUAAH5x,E=46079015,Y=YAHOO,V=1.0"; function adl_3983(){ var d=document,r=d.referrer,i,a,b='ad',e,p=new Array("data","U","D","I"); var u="http://richmedia.yimg.com/js/6/Y_Food_Meal/Y_Food_Meal_180x150"; if(top!=self){try{a=''+top.location}catch(e){} if(a){adxid=Math.random();b='ad-iframe'}else if(r){ u=((r&(i=r.indexOf("/",9))>0)?r.substring(0,i):r)+"/adx-iframe-v3.html#ad="+u; for(i=0;i'); return}}d.write('')} adl_3983(); setTimeout('document.getElementById("adl_S_3983").src="http://richmedia.yimg.com/customer/06/6/Y_Food_Meal/Y_Food_Meal_180x150.ns.js?adxq=1195086095"',1) if(window.yzq_d==null)window.yzq_d=new Object(); window.yzq_d['NfZnU0LEYrg-']='&U=13brjjbr7%2fN%3dNfZnU0LEYrg-%2fC%3d557574.11624370.12118294.7195156%2fD%3dMIP1%2fB%3d5044887'; Yahoo! Broadway Tony Awards Check out exclusive video, photos, news and more! --> USA TODAY Blog Pop Candy Whitney Matheson blogs on showbiz. » Entertainment on USAToday USA TODAY Celeb Watch USATODAY's reporter goes face-to-face with a star. --> --> NEWS ALERTS Get an alert when there are new stories about: [input] [input] [input] Carnegie Hall [input] Ella Fitzgerald [input] Nicolas Sarkozy [input] Nat King Cole [input] Duke Ellington --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 16:24:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William Slaughter Subject: Notice: Mudlark MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed New and On View: Mudlark Poster No. 72 (2007) Four Poems by Frederick Pollack Notes for the Baron of Teive | To Live in Peace | Serotonin | Bonbon Frederick Pollack is the author of two book-length narrative poems, The Adventure and Happiness, both published by Story Line Press. Other of his poems and essays have appeared in Hudson Review, Southern Review, Fulcrum, Salmagundi, Poetry Salzburg Review, Die Gazette (Munich), Representations and elsewhere. Poems have most recently appeared in the print journals Iota (UK), Orbis (UK), Magma (UK), and The Hat. Online, poems have appeared in Big Bridge, Snorkel, Hamilton Stone Review, Diagram, BlazeVox, The New Hampshire Review, Denver Syntax, Barnwood, elimae, and elsewhere. Pollack is an adjunct professor of creative writing at George Washington University, Washington, DC. Spread the word. Far and wide, William Slaughter MUDLARK An Electronic Journal of Poetry & Poetics Never in and never out of print... E-mail: mudlark@unf.edu URL: http://www.unf.edu/mudlark ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 16:54:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: Re: poetry videos: a distractive In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Very nice work, Mr. V.?Was all the red and green for Xmas? (j/k). I thought it was very brave of you to bare it all at 1:02 in this video. That was the best Christmas streaking I've seen all day. Of course it is a little cold here today. Bravissimo. -----Original Message----- From: Nico Vassilakis To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 3:40 am Subject: poetry videos: a distractive http://www.youtube.com/nicovassilakis = ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 13:36:55 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Zizek on Beethoven Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed A truly idiotic op ed piece in the Times by Slavoj Zizek, about the European Union's anthem, Beethoven's setting of Schiller's An die Freude--Ode to Joy. Somebody ought to tell him that the poem was written as An die Freiheit--Ode to Freedom--as Beethoven and everybody else at the time knew (one assumes the folks in Brussels are aware, as well), and the censors made him change it. Through some very questionable musicology, Zizek turns the setting into an appeal for the admission of Turkey to the EU. Really. Mark ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 14:31:23 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: "Wrack" image & Ruins, Wrecks & Runes//& a flickr gallery & essay link In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi David, Although I think that many assignations of what is 'natural' do not age well, I wouldn't argue that 'nature' is whatever we say it is. That sounds like a Bushie argument. All the best, David, to you and to all on the Poetics list. ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 20:51:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ryan Daley Subject: Piazzolla MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline I have long been fascinated by Astor Piazzolla, his life and work. Here's a great quote from him about Nadia Boulanger, one of the greatest music teachers of the 20th Century: *When I met her, I showed her my kilos of symphonies and sonatas. She started to read them and suddenly came out with a horrible sentence: "It's very well written." And stopped, with a big period, round like a soccer ball. After a long while, she said: "Here you are like Stravinsky, like Bart=F3k, like Ravel, but you know what happens? I can't find Piazzolla in this." And she began to investigate my private life: what I did, what I did and did not play, if I was single, married, or living with someone, she was like an FBI agent! And I was very ashamed to tell her that I was a tango musician. Finally I said, "I play in a night club." I didn't want to say **cabaret. And she answered, "Night club, mais oui, but that is a cabaret, isn't it?" "Yes," I answered, and thought, "I'll hit this woman in the head with a radio...." It wasn't easy to lie to her. She kept asking: "You say that you are not pianist. What instrument do you play, then?" And I didn't want to tell her that I was a bandoneon player, because I thought, "Then she will throw me from the fourth floor." Finally, I confessed and she asked me to play some bars of a tango of my own. She suddenly opened her eyes, took my hand and told me: "You idiot, that's Piazzolla!" And I took all the music I composed, ten years of my life, and sent it to hell in two seconds. *Happy Holidays. -Ryan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 00:12:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: fetalfield MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/Mixed; BOUNDARY="0-1462669800-1198559485=:2851" This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --0-1462669800-1198559485=:2851 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=utf-8; FORMAT=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Content-ID: fetalfield the blood rest entering of the fetal atrium, blood including entering a right the atrium, rest including of a the large fetal proportion deoxygenated deoxygenated from from vena superior proportion vena of cava the passes in ... diagram in circulation diagram (see circulation passes (see ... diagram) of vessel vein connecting to umbilical ivc vein =C3=A2=C2= =A6 to blood ivc blood =C3=A2=C2=A6 vessel flow the regulated ... via developmenta= l developmental the fans mother mother produce will antibodies produce regulated antibodies via against and d will antigen, cross and the these placenta cross start placenta the start antigen, destroying red red true cells, information true on detailed fetal information destroying on the sampling, potential potential and risks benefits. benefits. suggest we that suggest blood that sampling, more amplified than if one pcr dna is sequence used is to amplified seek if blood pcr more used one seek sequence allogeneic dna patients autoimmune with diseases. autoimmune ... diseases. amniotic amniotic fetal fluid, fetal maternal blood. blood. in. uric normal acid and levels. fluid, in. maternal normal blood pre-eclamptic. patients, patients, some some of whom were were receiving receiving frusemide. frusemide. therapy. therapy. pre-eclamptic. fluid fetal are ... presented. blood was mg/ml 1.930 and mg/ml 1.732 1.732 respectively. mg/ml, true respectively. detailed responsible as for a working trading as post trading the post placenta between and mothers babys babys small supply. vessels small between vessels mothers carrying fetal run strategies strategies genetic genetic carrying prenatal the diagnosis in cells circulation have diagnosis been on limited fetal by cells lack type cell in type fetal present blood. only blood http://www.alansondheim.org/fetal.jpg http://www.alansondheim.org/fetalfield.jpg --0-1462669800-1198559485=:2851-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 00:33:01 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Seasons Greetings from Lynda & Hal Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v915) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Seasons Greetings from Lynda & Hal Do not open before Christmas. unwrap here --> http://seasonsgreetingsfromlyndahal.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 04:49:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: eventide MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed eventide yes, in the sky were these, and on the earth were those in the midst, what, vacancy, a few clouds pondering, i removed the clouds black band proclaimed the troubles on land jewels above, obsidian, agate, what makes the sky houses in auras something about eventide something about moon http://www.alansondheim.org/strangeevent.jpg ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 09:17:16 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Cunningham Subject: Re: Oscar Peterson, 82, has died/ is mourned by French In-Reply-To: <949854.73018.qm@web52411.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you for this notice. I can't believe that the world will be = without him. On two occasions in the 1970s after concerts I had the honour and pleasure of sitting with him and a bottle of scotch in his hotel room, = each time for several hours, discussing the history of jazz and listening to anecdotes of jazz musicians. I notice that the article didn't mention Oscar's indebtedness to Jay McShann and Count Basie as Kansas City was definitely one of his sources. John Cunningham -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] = On Behalf Of steve russell Sent: December 24, 2007 2:57 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Oscar Peterson, 82, has died/ is mourned by French French President Nicolas Sarkozy mourns his loss. It's doubtful that an American politician would recognize the name.=20 Jazz great Oscar Peterson dies = at 82 By ROB GILLIES, Associated Press Writer 3 minutes ago =20 =20 TORONTO - Oscar Peterson, whose early = talent, speedy fingers and musical genius made him one of the world's best known jazz pianists, died at age 82.=20 ADVERTISEMENT &lt;script language=3D"JavaScript" type=3D"text/javascript"&gt;document.write('&lt;a href=3D"http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=3D12hkudk5d/M=3D571036.11071258.11647= 296.14146 94/D=3Dnews/S=3D46079015:LREC/_ylt=3DApnqymAU.R37gyZQ.PLg3wcnHL8C/Y=3DYAH= OO/EXP=3D1198 536389/A=3D4303781/R=3D1/SIG=3D12kupb04i/*http://clk.atdmt.com/HLC/go/yhx= xxllc0170 000019hlc/direct/01/?time=3D1198529189044473" target=3D"_blank"&gt;&lt;img src=3D"http://view.atdmt.com/HLC/view/yhxxxllc0170000019hlc/direct/01/?ti= me=3D11 98529189044473"/&gt;&lt;/a&gt;');&lt;/script&gt;&= lt; noscript&gt;&lt;a href=3D"http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=3D12hkudk5d/M=3D571036.11071258.11647= 296.14146 94/D=3Dnews/S=3D46079015:LREC/_ylt=3DApnqymAU.R37gyZQ.PLg3wcnHL8C/Y=3DYAH= OO/EXP=3D1198 536389/A=3D4303781/R=3D2/SIG=3D12kupb04i/*http://clk.atdmt.com/HLC/go/yhx= xxllc0170 000019hlc/direct/01/?time=3D1198529189044473" target=3D"_blank"&gt;&lt;img border=3D"0" src=3D"http://view.atdmt.com/HLC/view/yhxxxllc0170000019hlc/direct/01/?ti= me=3D11 98529189044473" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/noscript&gt; if(window.yzq_d=3D=3Dnull)window.yzq_d=3Dnew Object(); window.yzq_d['MvZnU0LEYrg-']=3D'&U=3D13bummmr3%2fN%3dMvZnU0LEYrg-%2fC%3d5= 71036.1 1071258.11647296.1414694%2fD%3dLREC%2fB%3d4303781';=20 His death was confirmed by Neweduk Funeral Home = in Mississauga, the Toronto suburb where Peterson lived. The city's mayor, Hazel McCallion, told The Associated Press that he died of kidney = failure but that she did not know when. The hospital and police refused to = comment. The Canadian Broadcasting Corp. reported that he died on Sunday. "He's been going downhill in the last few months, slowing up," = McCallion said, calling Peterson a "very close friend." During an illustrious career spanning seven decades, Peterson played = with some of the biggest names in jazz, including Ella Fitzgerald, Count = Basie and Dizzy Gillespie. He is also remembered for touring in a trio with = Ray Brown on bass and Herb Ellis on guitar in the 1950s. Peterson's impressive collection of awards include all of Canada's = highest honors, such as the Order of Canada, as well as a Lifetime Grammy (1997) = and a spot in the International Jazz Hall of Fame. His growing stature was reflected in the admiration of his peers. Duke Ellington referred to him as "Maharajah of the keyboard," while Count = Basie once said "Oscar Peterson plays the best ivory box I've ever heard." In a statement, French President Nicolas Sarkozy said "one of the = bright lights of jazz has gone out." "He was a regular on the French stage, where the public adored his = luminous style," Sarkozy said. "It is a great loss for us." Jazz pianist Marian McPartland called Peterson "the finest technician = that I have seen." McPartland said she first met Peterson when she and her husband, jazz cornetist Jimmy McPartland, opened for him at the Colonial Tavern in = Toronto in the 1940s. "From that point on we became such goods friends, and he was always wonderful to me and I have always felt very close to him," she said. "I played at his tribute concert at Carnegie Hall earlier this year and performed `Tenderly,' which was always my favorite piece of his." The American jazz pianist Billy Taylor called Peterson one of the = finest jazz pianists of his time. "He set the pace for just about everybody that followed him. He really = was just a special player," Taylor said. Born on Aug. 15, 1925, in a poor neighborhood southwest of Montreal, Peterson obtained a passion for music from his father. Daniel Peterson, = a railway porter and self-taught musician, bestowed his love of music to = his five children, offering them a means to escape from poverty. Oscar Peterson learned to play trumpet and piano at a young age, but = after a bout with tuberculosis had to concentrate on the latter. He became a teen sensation in his native Canada, playing in dance bands = and recording in the late 1930s and early 1940s. But he got his real break = as a surprise guest at Carnegie Hall in 1949, after which he began touring = the United States and Europe. He quickly made a name for himself as a jazz virtuoso, often compared = to piano great Art Tatum, his childhood idol, for his speed and technical skill. He was also influenced by Nat King Cole, whose Nat King Cole Trio album = he considered "a complete musical thesaurus for any aspiring Jazz pianist." = Peterson never stopped calling Canada home despite his growing international reputation. But at times he felt slighted here, where he = was occasionally mistaken for a football player, standing at 6 foot 3 and = more than 250 pounds.=20 In 2005 he became the first living person other than a reigning monarch = to obtain a commemorative stamp in Canada, where he is jazz royalty, with streets, squares, concert halls and schools named after him.=20 Peterson suffered a stroke in 1993 that weakened his left hand, but not = his passion or drive for music. Within a year he was back on tour, recording "Side By Side" with Itzhak Perlman.=20 As he grew older, Peterson kept playing and touring, despite worsening arthritis and difficulties walking.=20 "A jazz player is an instant composer," Peterson once said in a CBC interview, while conceding jazz did not have the mass appeal of other musical genres. "You have to think about it, it's an intellectual form," = he said.=20 ___=20 AP reporter Lily Hindy in New York contributed to this story.=20 ___=20 On the Net:=20 Oscar Peterson home page: http://www.oscarpeterson.com=20 Canadian Broadcasting Corp. interview: http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/peterson_oscar =20 Email Story IM Story Printable View RECOMMEND THIS STORY [input] [input] [input] [input] [input] [input] [input] [input] [input] Recommend It:=20 =20 Average (92 votes) =20 =20 =BB Recommended Stories =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Entertainment News Jazz great Oscar Peterson dies at 82 AP Washington looks to stay behind camera AP James Brown estate still on the bad foot AP Yung Joc arrested at Cleveland airport AP `Juno' opens doors for Diablo Cody AP Most Viewed: Entertainment Filmmakers have more than a feeling about Boston Reuters Confessions on MySpace Dear Margo Caroline Kennedy remembers JFK letter AP High-Class Worries, as My Dad Used To Say Dear Margo Report: Heigl marries musician Kelley AP =20 =20 Entertainment Video=20 Stars reveal their Christmas plans, presents AP - Mon Dec = 24, 12:40 PM ET 'Treasure' finds $45M in box office gold AP - 2 hours, 46 minutes ago =20 Hot List: Hottest of 2007, Part I AP - Mon Dec 24, 11:20 AM = ET Hot List: Hottest of 2007, Part II AP - Mon Dec 24, 12:26 PM = ET =20 =20 =20 Sponsored Links ( What's this? ) =20 Biltmore in Asheville, NC Get All Day Access to the Estate & Candlelight Christmas Evenings. www.Biltmore.com=20 Rent Elegant South Padre Island Condos Stay in a new beautifully decorated 1 or 2 bedroom condo on So. Padre. www.dancercondorentals.com=20 Eureka Springs: Bed and Breakfast Eureka Springs Bed and Breakfast with Packages, full breakfast. www.ridgewayhouse.com=20 =20 =20 =20 AP Photo: Canadian jazz legend Oscar Peterson performs on the Stravinski hall stage during the 39th Montreux... =20 =20 =20 Slideshow: Jazz great Oscar Peterson dies (16) -->=20 =20 =20 Entertainment Video =20 =20 Stars reveal their Christmas plans, presents AP =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 'Treasure' finds $45M in box office gold AP =20 =20 =BB All news video=20 =20 Year in Review 2007=20 Beginnings Endings Downfalls Rebounds Inspirations Most Emailed TIME: Top Quotes TIME: Top Campaign Gaffes Best You Witness photos Best Flickr photos =BB More Year in Review =20 =20 On Yahoo! Music Final Bow Exclusive video of Celine Dion's last Las Vegas performance. =20 --> Elsewhere on the Web =20 CNN.com: Chuck Norris says book is = not 'Truth' =20 ABC News: Even Celebrities 'Do It' = for Attention =20 USATODAY.com: Network and cable prime-time highlights for Tuesday =20 =20 = ADVERTISEMENT // // (c) 2007 adInterax, All Rights Reserved, http://adinterax.com = // LOAD THIS PAGE INSIDE THE IFRAME //adx_U_3983=3D"[ your-click-through-URL-goes-here ]"; adx_D_3983=3D"http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=3D12hgttkvl/M=3D557574.11624370= .12118294 .7195156/D=3Dnews/S=3D46079015:MIP1/_ylt=3DAoto97x_p6P531t6tjw_fagnHL8C/Y= =3DYAHOO/EX P=3D1198536389/A=3D5044887/R=3D0/*"; //adx_I_3983=3D"[ your-impression-track-pixel-URL-goes-here ]"; adx_data_3983=3D"A=3D6,AN=3DY_Food_Meal%2fY_Food_Meal_180x150,AC=3D,AV=3D= ,PB=3D1/SIG=3D14f 9kg8bg,X=3D1198529189,B=3D5044887,C=3D557574.11624370.12118294.7195156,D=3D= MIP1,Z=3D,R =3Dnews,P=3DyQtMLkWTcur5D7BCRZlanQS2RDAmakdwGqUAAH5x,E=3D46079015,Y=3DYAH= OO,V=3D1.0"; function adl_3983(){ var = d=3Ddocument,r=3Dd.referrer,i,a,b=3D'ad',e,p=3Dnew Array("data","U","D","I"); var u=3D"http://richmedia.yimg.com/js/6/Y_Food_Meal/Y_Food_Meal_180x150"; if(top!=3Dself){try{a=3D''+top.location}catch(e){} if(a){adxid=3DMath.random();b=3D'ad-iframe'}else if(r){ u=3D((r&(i=3Dr.indexOf("/",9))>0)?r.substring(0,i):r)+"/adx-iframe-v3.htm= l#ad=3D"+ u; for(i=3D0;i'); return}}d.write('')} adl_3983();=20 =20 =20 setTimeout('document.getElementById("adl_S_3983").src=3D"http://richmedia= .yimg .com/customer/06/6/Y_Food_Meal/Y_Food_Meal_180x150.ns.js?adxq=3D119508609= 5"',1 ) if(window.yzq_d=3D=3Dnull)window.yzq_d=3Dnew Object(); window.yzq_d['NfZnU0LEYrg-']=3D'&U=3D13brjjbr7%2fN%3dNfZnU0LEYrg-%2fC%3d5= 57574.1 1624370.12118294.7195156%2fD%3dMIP1%2fB%3d5044887'; =20 Yahoo! Broadway Tony Awards Check out exclusive video, photos, news and more! --> USA TODAY Blog Pop Candy Whitney Matheson blogs on showbiz. =BB Entertainment on USAToday =20 USA TODAY Celeb Watch USATODAY's reporter goes face-to-face with a star. =20 =20 --> =20 --> NEWS ALERTS Get an alert when there are new stories about: [input] [input] =20 [input] Carnegie Hall [input] Ella Fitzgerald [input] Nicolas Sarkozy [input] Nat King Cole [input] Duke Ellington =20 --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try = it now. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition.=20 Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.8/1195 - Release Date: = 24/12/2007 11:19 AM =20 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition.=20 Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.8/1195 - Release Date: = 24/12/2007 11:19 AM =20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 12:09:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Re: Zizek on Beethoven In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20071224133128.066860b0@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v915) Mark, that didn't seem to me to be a bad piece at all =96 & where is the bad =20= musicology? I was raised in Europe with that piece of music & =20 Schiller's poem used for every plausible & implausible occasion & =20 laughed out loud when it was pulled in again to become the pan-=20 European anthem. So Zizek's analysis of the marcia turca bit struck me =20= as rather insightful, & his move from there to the exclusion of Turkey =20= from the EEC, an interesting even if somewhat fancy two-step. happy hols to one & all, Pierre On Dec 24, 2007, at 1:36 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > A truly idiotic op ed piece in the Times by Slavoj Zizek, about the =20= > European Union's anthem, Beethoven's setting of Schiller's An die =20 > Freude--Ode to Joy. Somebody ought to tell him that the poem was =20 > written as An die Freiheit--Ode to Freedom--as Beethoven and =20 > everybody else at the time knew (one assumes the folks in Brussels =20 > are aware, as well), and the censors made him change it. Through =20 > some very questionable musicology, Zizek turns the setting into an =20 > appeal for the admission of Turkey to the EU. Really. > > Mark ___________________________________________________________ The poet: always in partibus infidelium -- Paul Celan ___________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris 244 Elm Street Albany NY 12202 h: 518 426 0433 c: 518 225 7123 o: 518 442 40 71 Euro cell: (011 33) 6 75 43 57 10 email: joris@albany.edu http://pierrejoris.com Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com ____________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 07:29:09 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabrielle Welford Subject: Re: Seasons Greetings from Lynda & Hal In-Reply-To: <001384E1-4C76-4C99-974D-1FFAECCDCDE5@earthlink.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT ah, ya lucky, hal and lynda. beautiful. i've strayed to berkeley and am resonating with mom and sister, nephew, old friend of daughter, amid much laughter, brightsundayafterday, 'n plenty good food. great whopping blessings to all and intothefuture beautywalking for 2008. love and smooches, g On Tue, 25 Dec 2007, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Seasons Greetings from Lynda & Hal > > Do not open before Christmas. > > unwrap here --> http://seasonsgreetingsfromlyndahal.blogspot.com/ > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 07:30:31 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabrielle Welford Subject: Re: eventide In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT i love this. can i put it on my blog today? g On Tue, 25 Dec 2007, Alan Sondheim wrote: > eventide > > yes, in the sky were these, and on the earth were those > in the midst, what, vacancy, a few clouds > pondering, i removed the clouds > black band proclaimed the troubles on land > jewels above, obsidian, agate, what makes the sky > houses in auras > something about eventide > something about moon > > http://www.alansondheim.org/strangeevent.jpg > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 12:58:00 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: RIP: Siv Cedering (1939-2007) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v915) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.poets.org/viewmedia.php/prmMID/15716 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 12:03:28 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Alexander Subject: Re: Oscar Peterson, 82, has died/ is mourned by French In-Reply-To: <949854.73018.qm@web52411.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed What a musician! I heard him once live in a small club in a hotel in =20 San Francisco, probably 1975 or 1974. I was in college and went alone =20= to that one. I sat just a bit behind Clint Eastwood. The entire room =20 seemed like it didn't hold more than 75 people or so. All I remember =20 is feeling like I wasn't really any "place" at all. Just in the music. charles charles alexander chax press chax@theriver.com 650 e. ninth st. tucson arizona 85705 520 620 1626 On Dec 24, 2007, at 1:56 PM, steve russell wrote: > French President Nicolas Sarkozy mourns his loss. It's doubtful =20 > that an American politician would recognize the name. > Jazz great Oscar Peterson =20 > dies at =20 > 82 =20= > =20= > By ROB GILLIES, Associated Press =20 > Writer =20= > 3 minutes ago > > TORONTO - Oscar Peterson, whose early =20 > talent, speedy fingers and musical genius made him one of the =20 > world's best known jazz pianists, died at age 82. > ADVERTISEMENT > &lt;script language=3D"JavaScript" type=3D"text/=20 > javascript"&gt;document.write('&lt;a href=3D"http://=20 > us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=3D12hkudk5d/M=3D571036.11071258.11647296.1414694/=20= > D=3Dnews/S=3D46079015:LREC/_ylt=3DApnqymAU.R37gyZQ.PLg3wcnHL8C/Y=3DYAHOO= /=20 > EXP=3D1198536389/A=3D4303781/R=3D1/SIG=3D12kupb04i/*http://clk.atdmt.com= /=20 > HLC/go/yhxxxllc0170000019hlc/direct/01/?time=3D1198529189044473" =20 > target=3D"_blank"&gt;&lt;img src=3D"http://view.atdmt.com/HLC/=20= > view/yhxxxllc0170000019hlc/direct/01/?time=3D1198529189044473"/=20 > &gt;&lt;/a&gt;');&lt;/=20 > script&gt;&lt;noscript&gt;&lt;a href=3D"http://=20 > us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=3D12hkudk5d/M=3D571036.11071258.11647296.1414694/=20= > D=3Dnews/S=3D46079015:LREC/_ylt=3DApnqymAU.R37gyZQ.PLg3wcnHL8C/Y=3DYAHOO= /=20 > EXP=3D1198536389/A=3D4303781/R=3D2/SIG=3D12kupb04i/*http://clk.atdmt.com= /=20 > HLC/go/yhxxxllc0170000019hlc/direct/01/?time=3D1198529189044473" =20 > target=3D"_blank"&gt;&lt;img border=3D"0" src=3D"http://=20 > view.atdmt.com/HLC/view/yhxxxllc0170000019hlc/direct/01/?=20 > time=3D1198529189044473" > /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/noscript&gt; if=20 > (window.yzq_d=3D=3Dnull)window.yzq_d=3Dnew Object(); window.yzq_d=20 > ['MvZnU0LEYrg-']=3D'&U=3D13bummmr3%2fN%3dMvZnU0LEYrg-%2fC%=20 > 3d571036.11071258.11647296.1414694%2fD%3dLREC%2fB%3d4303781'; > His death was confirmed by Neweduk Funeral =20 > Home in Mississauga, the Toronto suburb where Peterson lived. The =20 > city's mayor, Hazel McCallion, told The Associated Press that he =20 > died of kidney failure but that she did not know when. The hospital =20= > and police refused to comment. The Canadian Broadcasting Corp. =20 > reported that he died on Sunday. > "He's been going downhill in the last few months, slowing up," =20 > McCallion said, calling Peterson a "very close friend." > During an illustrious career spanning seven decades, Peterson =20 > played with some of the biggest names in jazz, including Ella =20 > Fitzgerald, Count Basie and Dizzy Gillespie. He is also remembered =20 > for touring in a trio with Ray Brown on bass and Herb Ellis on =20 > guitar in the 1950s. > Peterson's impressive collection of awards include all of Canada's =20= > highest honors, such as the Order of Canada, as well as a Lifetime =20 > Grammy (1997) and a spot in the International Jazz Hall of Fame. > His growing stature was reflected in the admiration of his peers. =20 > Duke Ellington referred to him as "Maharajah of the keyboard," =20 > while Count Basie once said "Oscar Peterson plays the best ivory =20 > box I've ever heard." > In a statement, French President Nicolas Sarkozy said "one of the =20 > bright lights of jazz has gone out." > "He was a regular on the French stage, where the public adored his =20= > luminous style," Sarkozy said. "It is a great loss for us." > Jazz pianist Marian McPartland called Peterson "the finest =20 > technician that I have seen." > McPartland said she first met Peterson when she and her husband, =20 > jazz cornetist Jimmy McPartland, opened for him at the Colonial =20 > Tavern in Toronto in the 1940s. > "=46rom that point on we became such goods friends, and he was =20 > always wonderful to me and I have always felt very close to him," =20 > she said. "I played at his tribute concert at Carnegie Hall earlier =20= > this year and performed `Tenderly,' which was always my favorite =20 > piece of his." > The American jazz pianist Billy Taylor called Peterson one of the =20 > finest jazz pianists of his time. > "He set the pace for just about everybody that followed him. He =20 > really was just a special player," Taylor said. > Born on Aug. 15, 1925, in a poor neighborhood southwest of =20 > Montreal, Peterson obtained a passion for music from his father. =20 > Daniel Peterson, a railway porter and self-taught musician, =20 > bestowed his love of music to his five children, offering them a =20 > means to escape from poverty. > Oscar Peterson learned to play trumpet and piano at a young age, =20 > but after a bout with tuberculosis had to concentrate on the latter. > He became a teen sensation in his native Canada, playing in dance =20 > bands and recording in the late 1930s and early 1940s. But he got =20 > his real break as a surprise guest at Carnegie Hall in 1949, after =20 > which he began touring the United States and Europe. > He quickly made a name for himself as a jazz virtuoso, often =20 > compared to piano great Art Tatum, his childhood idol, for his =20 > speed and technical skill. > He was also influenced by Nat King Cole, whose Nat King Cole Trio =20 > album he considered "a complete musical thesaurus for any aspiring =20 > Jazz pianist." > Peterson never stopped calling Canada home despite his growing =20 > international reputation. But at times he felt slighted here, where =20= > he was occasionally mistaken for a football player, standing at 6 =20 > foot 3 and more than 250 pounds. > In 2005 he became the first living person other than a reigning =20 > monarch to obtain a commemorative stamp in Canada, where he is jazz =20= > royalty, with streets, squares, concert halls and schools named =20 > after him. > Peterson suffered a stroke in 1993 that weakened his left hand, but =20= > not his passion or drive for music. Within a year he was back on =20 > tour, recording "Side By Side" with Itzhak Perlman. > As he grew older, Peterson kept playing and touring, despite =20 > worsening arthritis and difficulties walking. > "A jazz player is an instant composer," Peterson once said in a CBC =20= > interview, while conceding jazz did not have the mass appeal of =20 > other musical genres. "You have to think about it, it's an =20 > intellectual form," he said. > ___ > AP reporter Lily Hindy in New York contributed to this story. > ___ > On the Net: > Oscar Peterson home page: http://www.oscarpeterson.com > Canadian Broadcasting Corp. interview: http://www.cbc.ca/news/=20 > background/peterson_oscar > > Email Story > IM Story > Printable View > RECOMMEND THIS STORY [input] =20 > [input] [input] [input] [input] =20 > [input] [input] [input] [input] =20 > Recommend It: > > > Average (92 votes) > > > =BB Recommended Stories > > > > =20= > Entertainment News > Jazz great Oscar Peterson dies at 82 AP > Washington looks to stay behind camera AP > James Brown estate still on the bad foot AP > Yung Joc arrested at Cleveland airport AP > `Juno' opens doors for Diablo Cody AP > Most Viewed: Entertainment > Filmmakers have more than a feeling about Boston Reuters > Confessions on MySpace Dear Margo > Caroline Kennedy remembers JFK letter AP > High-Class Worries, as My Dad Used To Say Dear Margo > Report: Heigl marries musician Kelley AP > > > Entertainment Video > Stars reveal their Christmas plans, presents AP - Mon =20 > Dec 24, 12:40 PM ET > 'Treasure' finds $45M in box office gold AP - 2 hours, =20= > 46 minutes ago > > Hot List: Hottest of 2007, Part I AP - Mon Dec 24, =20 > 11:20 AM ET > Hot List: Hottest of 2007, Part II AP - Mon Dec 24, =20 > 12:26 PM ET > > > > Sponsored Links > ( What's this? ) > > Biltmore in Asheville, NC Get All Day Access to the Estate & =20 > Candlelight Christmas Evenings. > www.Biltmore.com > Rent Elegant South Padre Island Condos Stay in a new =20 > beautifully decorated 1 or 2 bedroom condo on So. 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Music Final Bow > Exclusive video of Celine Dion's last Las Vegas performance. > > --=20 > > =20= > =20= > Elsewhere on =20= > the Web > CNN.com: Chuck Norris says =20 > book is not 'Truth' > ABC News: Even Celebrities 'Do =20= > It' for Attention > USATODAY.com: Network and =20 > cable prime-time highlights for Tuesday > > =20 > ADVERTISEMENT > // // (c) 2007 adInterax, All Rights Reserved, http://=20 > adinterax.com // LOAD THIS PAGE INSIDE THE IFRAME //=20 > adx_U_3983=3D"[ your-click-through-URL-goes-here ]"; =20 > adx_D_3983=3D"http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=3D12hgttkvl/=20 > M=3D557574.11624370.12118294.7195156/D=3Dnews/S=3D46079015:MIP1/=20 > _ylt=3DAoto97x_p6P531t6tjw_fagnHL8C/Y=3DYAHOO/EXP=3D1198536389/A=3D50448= 87/=20 > R=3D0/*"; //adx_I_3983=3D"[ your-impression-track-pixel-URL-goes-=20 > here ]"; adx_data_3983=3D"A=3D6,AN=3DY_Food_Meal%=20 > 2fY_Food_Meal_180x150,AC=3D,AV=3D,PB=3D1/=20 > SIG=3D14f9kg8bg,X=3D1198529189,B=3D5044887,C=3D557574.11624370.12118294.= 719515=20 > 6,D=3DMIP1,Z=3D,R=3Dnews,P=3DyQtMLkWTcur5D7BCRZlanQS2RDAmakdwGqUAAH5x,E=3D= 460790=20 > 15,Y=3DYAHOO,V=3D1.0"; function adl_3983(){ var =20 > d=3Ddocument,r=3Dd.referrer,i,a,b=3D'ad',e,p=3Dnew Array=20 > ("data","U","D","I"); var u=3D"http://richmedia.yimg.com/js/6/=20 > Y_Food_Meal/Y_Food_Meal_180x150"; if(top!=3Dself){try=20 > {a=3D''+top.location}catch(e){} if(a){adxid=3DMath.random();b=3D'ad-=20= > iframe'}else if(r){ u=3D((r&(i=3Dr.indexOf("/",9))>0)?r.substring=20 > (0,i):r)+"/adx-iframe-v3.html#ad=3D"+u; > for(i=3D0;i'); return}}d.write('')} adl_3983(); > > > > setTimeout('document.getElementById("adl_S_3983").src=3D"http://=20 > richmedia.yimg.com/customer/06/6/Y_Food_Meal/=20 > Y_Food_Meal_180x150.ns.js?adxq=3D1195086095"',1) if=20 > (window.yzq_d=3D=3Dnull)window.yzq_d=3Dnew Object(); window.yzq_d=20 > ['NfZnU0LEYrg-']=3D'&U=3D13brjjbr7%2fN%3dNfZnU0LEYrg-%2fC%=20 > 3d557574.11624370.12118294.7195156%2fD%3dMIP1%2fB%3d5044887'; > Yahoo! Broadway Tony Awards > Check out exclusive video, photos, news and more! > > --> USA TODAY Blog Pop Candy > Whitney Matheson blogs on showbiz. > > =BB Entertainment on USAToday > > USA TODAY Celeb Watch > USATODAY's reporter goes face-to-face with a star. > > > > --> > --=20 > > =20= > =20= > =20= > NEWS =20 > ALERTS Get an alert when there are new stories about: > [input] [input] > [input] Carnegie Hall > [input] Ella Fitzgerald > [input] Nicolas Sarkozy > [input] Nat King Cole > [input] Duke Ellington > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. =20= > Try it now. > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 12:39:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: christmas cheer Comments: To: british-irish-poets@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, poetryetc@jiscmail.ac.uk, UKPOETRY@LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Here's how they're doing it in Australia. http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2007/12/25/world/20071225_CHRISTMAS_SLIDESHOW_5.html Cheers, Mark ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 14:52:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: RIP: Siv Cedering (1939-2007) In-Reply-To: <9BB0FA18-0314-4BC8-A78D-0D81BFDD4B1B@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed This is truly saddening. Civ and I shared a publisher, and I published her in my magazine of the early 70s, Broadway Boogie. I remember her as a woman in her thirties of heart-stopping loveliness. At her birthday party, which must have been her 32nd, a man in his twenties, in an apparent trance, walked through the rather large crowd to where she and I were talking. "I think you're the most beautiful woman I've ever seen," he blurted out. Civ was married at the time and had a few kids. She was very gentle with him and sent him on his way. A good poet and translator, and a generous human being. It was at that party that I met Gregory Corso, and also two men who became among my dearest friends, Richard Elman and Armand Schwerner. I hope her passing was easy. Mark At 01:58 PM 12/25/2007, you wrote: >http://www.poets.org/viewmedia.php/prmMID/15716 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 15:02:05 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Zizek on Beethoven In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Chacun a son gout. But as to the musicology, he=20 gives us to assume that there's a consensus among=20 musicologists that the movement is flawed, which=20 just aint so. And he probably knows that. As to=20 his "analysis" of the marcia turca, maybe someone=20 should fill him in on the carnavalesque. His=20 understanding of it seems rather limited, though=20 I suspect that he's just being clever for the=20 sake of the essay. In any event, the anthem uses=20 only the first statement of the theme, as far as I know. I'm content to let this rest. Those who don't think it's idiotic, fine by= me. It would be nice to know what the other=20 contenders were for anthem. At least this one has no killing in it. Mark At 12:09 PM 12/25/2007, you wrote: >Mark, > >that didn't seem to me to be a bad piece at all =AD & where is the bad >musicology? I was raised in Europe with that piece of music & >Schiller's poem used for every plausible & implausible occasion & >laughed out loud when it was pulled in again to=20 >become the pan- European anthem. So Zizek's=20 >analysis of the marcia turca bit struck me >as rather insightful, & his move from there to the exclusion of Turkey >from the EEC, an interesting even if somewhat fancy two-step. > >happy hols to one & all, > >Pierre > >On Dec 24, 2007, at 1:36 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > >>A truly idiotic op ed piece in the Times by Slavoj Zizek, about the >>European Union's anthem, Beethoven's setting of Schiller's An die >>Freude--Ode to Joy. Somebody ought to tell him that the poem was >>written as An die Freiheit--Ode to Freedom--as Beethoven and >>everybody else at the time knew (one assumes the folks in Brussels >>are aware, as well), and the censors made him change it. Through >>some very questionable musicology, Zizek turns the setting into an >>appeal for the admission of Turkey to the EU. Really. >> >>Mark > >___________________________________________________________ > >The poet: always in partibus infidelium -- Paul Celan >___________________________________________________________ >Pierre Joris >244 Elm Street >Albany NY 12202 >h: 518 426 0433 >c: 518 225 7123 >o: 518 442 40 71 >Euro cell: (011 33) 6 75 43 57 10 >email: joris@albany.edu >http://pierrejoris.com >Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com >____________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 15:52:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: laura hinton Subject: Re: Zizek on Beethoven In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline I agree that the NYT piece was well done. Does anyone know if this reading has been done before? Beethoven's refusal to provide a comfortable restin= g place within the radical edges of the 9th has been used as representation o= f nationhood and authoritarian order. Doesn't the Ode itself play on this ironic possibility in its own structure (and the potential uses of art by the establishment/the state)? I was impressed -- and it's the first time I've been able to comprehend Zizek. Laura On Dec 25, 2007 12:09 PM, Pierre Joris wrote: > Mark, > > that didn't seem to me to be a bad piece at all =96 & where is the bad > musicology? I was raised in Europe with that piece of music & > Schiller's poem used for every plausible & implausible occasion & > laughed out loud when it was pulled in again to become the pan- > European anthem. So Zizek's analysis of the marcia turca bit struck me > as rather insightful, & his move from there to the exclusion of Turkey > from the EEC, an interesting even if somewhat fancy two-step. > > happy hols to one & all, > > Pierre > > On Dec 24, 2007, at 1:36 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > > > A truly idiotic op ed piece in the Times by Slavoj Zizek, about the > > European Union's anthem, Beethoven's setting of Schiller's An die > > Freude--Ode to Joy. Somebody ought to tell him that the poem was > > written as An die Freiheit--Ode to Freedom--as Beethoven and > > everybody else at the time knew (one assumes the folks in Brussels > > are aware, as well), and the censors made him change it. Through > > some very questionable musicology, Zizek turns the setting into an > > appeal for the admission of Turkey to the EU. Really. > > > > Mark > > ___________________________________________________________ > > The poet: always in partibus infidelium -- Paul Celan > ___________________________________________________________ > Pierre Joris > 244 Elm Street > Albany NY 12202 > h: 518 426 0433 > c: 518 225 7123 > o: 518 442 40 71 > Euro cell: (011 33) 6 75 43 57 10 > email: joris@albany.edu > http://pierrejoris.com > Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com > ____________________________________________________________ > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 22:36:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: hope towards the year MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed serene unquiet hope unmeasure things http://www.alansondheim.org/measureofallthings.jpg unthings measure unhope quiet unserene ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 20:29:31 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Re: Zizek on Beethoven In-Reply-To: <6283ee870712251252n5d01b2cft538cbf1c379bfac5@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline It's been interesting to find of late that Zizek is "an Op Ed Contributor" to the NY Times. His pieces so far have received the response Laura notes herself finding------that it's amazing to find him so comprehensible. Given the Times' recent history, one even wonders if he is becoming an "embedded reporter." I thought the timing of the piece--and of its appearance in the Times-- very interesting. It's "cultural" argument for the inclusion of Turkey in the EU comes during Turkey's bombings of the rebel Kurds inside Iraq. Iraq is not too happy about this. But then who listens to them? Th= e bombings are openly aided and supported by the Americans who claim also to be the Iraqi government's allies. It was not very long ago, remember, that the Americans and Turks were on the verge of a big split over the issue of the Armenians. American lawmakers had voted to recognize Turkish actions against the Armenians almost a century ago as a genocide. This was unacceptable to both Turkey and Israel. The Americans don't want to lose their huge air bases in Turke= y and neither the Americans nor Israelis are very comfortable having genocide and ethnic cleansing being in the spotlight. Up to now, the Kurds have been relative outsiders to the hell of Iraq. The last person to attack them with a real show of force was Saddam. Once upon a time, the Americans loudly used what Saddam had done t= o the Kurds among their reasons to depose the Evil Dictator. Now the USA is adding Turkey in bombing the same people Saddam had. (Saddam had gassed the Kurds with weapons give him by the Americans to use on Iranians during the 10 year war between Iraq and Iran. Despite massive efforts and support by Americans, Saddam was not able to defeat the Islamic Republic.) Having reversed direction on the Armenians, the Americans now embrac= e the Turks more than before. One can see where the Times publishing this piece in the further interest of Turkey fits well with the new US policy an= d that of it allies Turkey and Israel. Previously i had forwarded to the list an October 11, 2007 Times Op Ed by Zizek with another interesting take, in that case, re China's outlawing of reincarnation. The final two paragraphs of that article, "How China Got religion" http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/11/opinion/11zizek.html?_r=3D1&th&emc=3Dth&o= ref=3Dslogin --- are interesting to return to in thinking of this latest essay: "Culture" has commonly become the name for all those things we practice without really taking seriously. And this is why we dismiss fundamentalist believers as "barbarians" with a "medieval mindset": they dare to take thei= r beliefs seriously. Today, we seem to see the ultimate threat to culture as coming from those who live immediately in their culture, who lack the prope= r distance. Perhaps we find China's reincarnation laws so outrageous not because they are alien to our sensibility, but because they spill the secret of what we have done for so long: respectfully tolerating what we don't take quite seriously, and trying to contain its political consequences through the law= . On Dec 25, 2007 12:52 PM, laura hinton wrote: > I agree that the NYT piece was well done. Does anyone know if this > reading > has been done before? Beethoven's refusal to provide a comfortable > resting > place within the radical edges of the 9th has been used as representation > of > nationhood and authoritarian order. Doesn't the Ode itself play on this > ironic possibility in its own structure (and the potential uses of art by > the establishment/the state)? I was impressed -- > > and it's the first time I've been able to comprehend Zizek. > > Laura > > On Dec 25, 2007 12:09 PM, Pierre Joris wrote: > > > Mark, > > > > that didn't seem to me to be a bad piece at all =96 & where is the bad > > musicology? I was raised in Europe with that piece of music & > > Schiller's poem used for every plausible & implausible occasion & > > laughed out loud when it was pulled in again to become the pan- > > European anthem. So Zizek's analysis of the marcia turca bit struck me > > as rather insightful, & his move from there to the exclusion of Turkey > > from the EEC, an interesting even if somewhat fancy two-step. > > > > happy hols to one & all, > > > > Pierre > > > > On Dec 24, 2007, at 1:36 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > > > > > A truly idiotic op ed piece in the Times by Slavoj Zizek, about the > > > European Union's anthem, Beethoven's setting of Schiller's An die > > > Freude--Ode to Joy. Somebody ought to tell him that the poem was > > > written as An die Freiheit--Ode to Freedom--as Beethoven and > > > everybody else at the time knew (one assumes the folks in Brussels > > > are aware, as well), and the censors made him change it. Through > > > some very questionable musicology, Zizek turns the setting into an > > > appeal for the admission of Turkey to the EU. Really. > > > > > > Mark > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > > > > The poet: always in partibus infidelium -- Paul Celan > > ___________________________________________________________ > > Pierre Joris > > 244 Elm Street > > Albany NY 12202 > > h: 518 426 0433 > > c: 518 225 7123 > > o: 518 442 40 71 > > Euro cell: (011 33) 6 75 43 57 10 > > email: joris@albany.edu > > http://pierrejoris.com > > Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com > > ____________________________________________________________ > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 19:02:46 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabrielle Welford Subject: mla In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT dear all, any poetry readings coming up? a good friend poet/artist is going. be well, g Gabrielle Welford, Ph.D. freelance writer, editor, teacher welford@hawaii.edu No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.412 / Virus Database: 268.18.4/705 - Release Date: 2/27/2007 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 02:42:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Model Homes Subject: Re: Zizek on Beethoven In-Reply-To: <6283ee870712251252n5d01b2cft538cbf1c379bfac5@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline For anyone interested, here' s a slightly earlier version of Zizek's article with greater vibrato. More pointed and less milk-toast - you'll notice the "fart" was edited out of the NYT rewrite, of course. The more substantial elisions are rather gruesome in comparison, particularly the conclusion. here's the address (you'll have to excuse the longish url, but should copy-paste sans problem): http://209.85.207.104/search?q=cache:scJ-btDFPRoJ:www.inthesetimes.com/article/3393/the_disturbing_sounds_of_the_turkish_march/+%22bar+331%22+beethoven&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=8&gl=us Now I wonder, are these the only two versions of his "9th" argument? -Brad -- Poetry | Futures | Blueprints http://modelhomepage.blogspot.com & http://myspace.com/modelhomespoetry ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 09:17:49 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: Zizek on Beethoven In-Reply-To: <6283ee870712251252n5d01b2cft538cbf1c379bfac5@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline The much I usually like Slavoj Zizek, I tend to agree with Mark Weiss on th= e present article. I read less his wish to have Turkey included in the Community, rather the marginal European states like Albania and so forth (forgive this so forth but I keep on forgetting which ones they are), still crashed under the weight of extremely bad politics. What I do not like in this article is his first supposition that "The Ode t= o Joy" is not worth being performed because: "In 1938, it was performed as the high point of the Reichsmusiktage, the Nazi music festival, and was later used to celebrate Hitler's birthday." If this assumption is true or accepted, then we should banish all classical music since the Nazis were exceptionally inclined to listening to it. Quite a mystery, as a mystery is the fact that Hitler had an artistic inclination= , besides having been Wittgenstein's schoolmate. But I usually accept the consideration that reality is weirder than fiction and as Miller did with the Crucible, one has to change facts in order to make things more credible for the audience. On Dec 25, 2007 9:52 PM, laura hinton wrote: > I agree that the NYT piece was well done. Does anyone know if this > reading > has been done before? Beethoven's refusal to provide a comfortable > resting > place within the radical edges of the 9th has been used as representation > of > nationhood and authoritarian order. Doesn't the Ode itself play on this > ironic possibility in its own structure (and the potential uses of art by > the establishment/the state)? I was impressed -- > > and it's the first time I've been able to comprehend Zizek. > > Laura > > On Dec 25, 2007 12:09 PM, Pierre Joris wrote: > > > Mark, > > > > that didn't seem to me to be a bad piece at all =96 & where is the bad > > musicology? I was raised in Europe with that piece of music & > > Schiller's poem used for every plausible & implausible occasion & > > laughed out loud when it was pulled in again to become the pan- > > European anthem. So Zizek's analysis of the marcia turca bit struck me > > as rather insightful, & his move from there to the exclusion of Turkey > > from the EEC, an interesting even if somewhat fancy two-step. > > > > happy hols to one & all, > > > > Pierre > > > > On Dec 24, 2007, at 1:36 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > > > > > A truly idiotic op ed piece in the Times by Slavoj Zizek, about the > > > European Union's anthem, Beethoven's setting of Schiller's An die > > > Freude--Ode to Joy. Somebody ought to tell him that the poem was > > > written as An die Freiheit--Ode to Freedom--as Beethoven and > > > everybody else at the time knew (one assumes the folks in Brussels > > > are aware, as well), and the censors made him change it. Through > > > some very questionable musicology, Zizek turns the setting into an > > > appeal for the admission of Turkey to the EU. Really. > > > > > > Mark > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > > > > The poet: always in partibus infidelium -- Paul Celan > > ___________________________________________________________ > > Pierre Joris > > 244 Elm Street > > Albany NY 12202 > > h: 518 426 0433 > > c: 518 225 7123 > > o: 518 442 40 71 > > Euro cell: (011 33) 6 75 43 57 10 > > email: joris@albany.edu > > http://pierrejoris.com > > Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com > > ____________________________________________________________ > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 09:25:15 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: Piazzolla In-Reply-To: <9778b8630712241751n6254cacdjdece849a3ddae20c@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Astor Piazzolla was very well known with the generation of his time. People valued him like my generation did with the Beatles or the Rolling Stones. I guess that if you like Tango, as they do in Buenos Aires, then Piazzolla is still a very popular hero. On Dec 25, 2007 2:51 AM, Ryan Daley wrote: > I have long been fascinated by Astor Piazzolla, his life and work. Here's > a > great quote from him about Nadia Boulanger, one of the greatest music > teachers of the 20th Century: > > *When I met her, I showed her my kilos of symphonies and sonatas. She > started to read them and suddenly came out with a horrible sentence: "It'= s > very well written." And stopped, with a big period, round like a soccer > ball. After a long while, she said: "Here you are like Stravinsky, like > Bart=F3k, like Ravel, but you know what happens? I can't find Piazzolla i= n > this." And she began to investigate my private life: what I did, what I > did > and did not play, if I was single, married, or living with someone, she > was > like an FBI agent! And I was very ashamed to tell her that I was a tango > musician. Finally I said, "I play in a night club." I didn't want to > say **cabaret. > And she answered, "Night club, mais oui, but that is a cabaret, isn't it?= " > "Yes," I answered, and thought, "I'll hit this woman in the head with a > radio...." It wasn't easy to lie to her. She kept asking: "You say that > you > are not pianist. What instrument do you play, then?" And I didn't want to > tell her that I was a bandoneon player, because I thought, "Then she will > throw me from the fourth floor." Finally, I confessed and she asked me to > play some bars of a tango of my own. She suddenly opened her eyes, took m= y > hand and told me: "You idiot, that's Piazzolla!" And I took all the music > I > composed, ten years of my life, and sent it to hell in two seconds. > > *Happy Holidays. > > -Ryan > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 07:24:11 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: Oscar Peterson, 82, has died/ is mourned by French In-Reply-To: <626A6CB4-02CD-4D98-ADE9-79687F41168E@theriver.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I shed a tear for Oscar Peterson, too, when I saw the obituary in the Times, although I don't think I ever heard him live. Did he ever play in the Charlie Parker Festival? If he did, then I did hear him once. My memory of him is so strong, I must have encountered him somewhere or other in New York's very small jazz universe. Regards, Tom Savage Charles Alexander wrote: What a musician! I heard him once live in a small club in a hotel in San Francisco, probably 1975 or 1974. I was in college and went alone to that one. I sat just a bit behind Clint Eastwood. The entire room seemed like it didn't hold more than 75 people or so. All I remember is feeling like I wasn't really any "place" at all. Just in the music. charles charles alexander chax press chax@theriver.com 650 e. ninth st. tucson arizona 85705 520 620 1626 On Dec 24, 2007, at 1:56 PM, steve russell wrote: > French President Nicolas Sarkozy mourns his loss. It's doubtful > that an American politician would recognize the name. > Jazz great Oscar Peterson > dies at > 82 > > By ROB GILLIES, Associated Press > Writer > 3 minutes ago > > TORONTO - Oscar Peterson, whose early > talent, speedy fingers and musical genius made him one of the > world's best known jazz pianists, died at age 82. > ADVERTISEMENT > <script language="JavaScript" type="text/ > javascript">document.write('<a href="http:// > us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12hkudk5d/M=571036.11071258.11647296.1414694/ > D=news/S=46079015:LREC/_ylt=ApnqymAU.R37gyZQ.PLg3wcnHL8C/Y=YAHOO/ > EXP=1198536389/A=4303781/R=1/SIG=12kupb04i/*http://clk.atdmt.com/ > HLC/go/yhxxxllc0170000019hlc/direct/01/?time=1198529189044473" > target="_blank"><img src="http://view.atdmt.com/HLC/ > view/yhxxxllc0170000019hlc/direct/01/?time=1198529189044473"/ > ></a>');</ > script><noscript><a href="http:// > us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12hkudk5d/M=571036.11071258.11647296.1414694/ > D=news/S=46079015:LREC/_ylt=ApnqymAU.R37gyZQ.PLg3wcnHL8C/Y=YAHOO/ > EXP=1198536389/A=4303781/R=2/SIG=12kupb04i/*http://clk.atdmt.com/ > HLC/go/yhxxxllc0170000019hlc/direct/01/?time=1198529189044473" > target="_blank"><img border="0" src="http:// > view.atdmt.com/HLC/view/yhxxxllc0170000019hlc/direct/01/? > time=1198529189044473" > /></a></noscript> if > (window.yzq_d==null)window.yzq_d=new Object(); window.yzq_d > ['MvZnU0LEYrg-']='&U=13bummmr3%2fN%3dMvZnU0LEYrg-%2fC% > 3d571036.11071258.11647296.1414694%2fD%3dLREC%2fB%3d4303781'; > His death was confirmed by Neweduk Funeral > Home in Mississauga, the Toronto suburb where Peterson lived. The > city's mayor, Hazel McCallion, told The Associated Press that he > died of kidney failure but that she did not know when. The hospital > and police refused to comment. The Canadian Broadcasting Corp. > reported that he died on Sunday. > "He's been going downhill in the last few months, slowing up," > McCallion said, calling Peterson a "very close friend." > During an illustrious career spanning seven decades, Peterson > played with some of the biggest names in jazz, including Ella > Fitzgerald, Count Basie and Dizzy Gillespie. He is also remembered > for touring in a trio with Ray Brown on bass and Herb Ellis on > guitar in the 1950s. > Peterson's impressive collection of awards include all of Canada's > highest honors, such as the Order of Canada, as well as a Lifetime > Grammy (1997) and a spot in the International Jazz Hall of Fame. > His growing stature was reflected in the admiration of his peers. > Duke Ellington referred to him as "Maharajah of the keyboard," > while Count Basie once said "Oscar Peterson plays the best ivory > box I've ever heard." > In a statement, French President Nicolas Sarkozy said "one of the > bright lights of jazz has gone out." > "He was a regular on the French stage, where the public adored his > luminous style," Sarkozy said. "It is a great loss for us." > Jazz pianist Marian McPartland called Peterson "the finest > technician that I have seen." > McPartland said she first met Peterson when she and her husband, > jazz cornetist Jimmy McPartland, opened for him at the Colonial > Tavern in Toronto in the 1940s. > "From that point on we became such goods friends, and he was > always wonderful to me and I have always felt very close to him," > she said. "I played at his tribute concert at Carnegie Hall earlier > this year and performed `Tenderly,' which was always my favorite > piece of his." > The American jazz pianist Billy Taylor called Peterson one of the > finest jazz pianists of his time. > "He set the pace for just about everybody that followed him. He > really was just a special player," Taylor said. > Born on Aug. 15, 1925, in a poor neighborhood southwest of > Montreal, Peterson obtained a passion for music from his father. > Daniel Peterson, a railway porter and self-taught musician, > bestowed his love of music to his five children, offering them a > means to escape from poverty. > Oscar Peterson learned to play trumpet and piano at a young age, > but after a bout with tuberculosis had to concentrate on the latter. > He became a teen sensation in his native Canada, playing in dance > bands and recording in the late 1930s and early 1940s. But he got > his real break as a surprise guest at Carnegie Hall in 1949, after > which he began touring the United States and Europe. > He quickly made a name for himself as a jazz virtuoso, often > compared to piano great Art Tatum, his childhood idol, for his > speed and technical skill. > He was also influenced by Nat King Cole, whose Nat King Cole Trio > album he considered "a complete musical thesaurus for any aspiring > Jazz pianist." > Peterson never stopped calling Canada home despite his growing > international reputation. But at times he felt slighted here, where > he was occasionally mistaken for a football player, standing at 6 > foot 3 and more than 250 pounds. > In 2005 he became the first living person other than a reigning > monarch to obtain a commemorative stamp in Canada, where he is jazz > royalty, with streets, squares, concert halls and schools named > after him. > Peterson suffered a stroke in 1993 that weakened his left hand, but > not his passion or drive for music. Within a year he was back on > tour, recording "Side By Side" with Itzhak Perlman. > As he grew older, Peterson kept playing and touring, despite > worsening arthritis and difficulties walking. > "A jazz player is an instant composer," Peterson once said in a CBC > interview, while conceding jazz did not have the mass appeal of > other musical genres. "You have to think about it, it's an > intellectual form," he said. > ___ > AP reporter Lily Hindy in New York contributed to this story. > ___ > On the Net: > Oscar Peterson home page: http://www.oscarpeterson.com > Canadian Broadcasting Corp. interview: http://www.cbc.ca/news/ > background/peterson_oscar > > Email Story > IM Story > Printable View > RECOMMEND THIS STORY [input] > [input] [input] [input] [input] > [input] [input] [input] [input] > Recommend It: > > > Average (92 votes) > > > » Recommended Stories > > > > > Entertainment News > Jazz great Oscar Peterson dies at 82 AP > Washington looks to stay behind camera AP > James Brown estate still on the bad foot AP > Yung Joc arrested at Cleveland airport AP > `Juno' opens doors for Diablo Cody AP > Most Viewed: Entertainment > Filmmakers have more than a feeling about Boston Reuters > Confessions on MySpace Dear Margo > Caroline Kennedy remembers JFK letter AP > High-Class Worries, as My Dad Used To Say Dear Margo > Report: Heigl marries musician Kelley AP > > > Entertainment Video > Stars reveal their Christmas plans, presents AP - Mon > Dec 24, 12:40 PM ET > 'Treasure' finds $45M in box office gold AP - 2 hours, > 46 minutes ago > > Hot List: Hottest of 2007, Part I AP - Mon Dec 24, > 11:20 AM ET > Hot List: Hottest of 2007, Part II AP - Mon Dec 24, > 12:26 PM ET > > > > Sponsored Links > ( What's this? ) > > Biltmore in Asheville, NC Get All Day Access to the Estate & > Candlelight Christmas Evenings. > www.Biltmore.com > Rent Elegant South Padre Island Condos Stay in a new > beautifully decorated 1 or 2 bedroom condo on So. Padre. > www.dancercondorentals.com > Eureka Springs: Bed and Breakfast Eureka Springs Bed and > Breakfast with Packages, full breakfast. > www.ridgewayhouse.com > > > > > AP Photo: > Canadian jazz legend Oscar Peterson performs on the Stravinski hall > stage during the 39th Montreux... > > > Slideshow: Jazz great Oscar Peterson dies (16) --> > > > > > Entertainment Video > > > Stars reveal their Christmas plans, > presents > AP > > > > > 'Treasure' finds $45M in box office > gold > AP > > » All news video > > > > Year in Review 2007 > Beginnings > Endings > Downfalls > Rebounds > Inspirations > Most Emailed > TIME: Top Quotes > TIME: Top Campaign Gaffes > Best You Witness photos > Best Flickr photos > » More Year in Review > > > On Yahoo! Music Final Bow > Exclusive video of Celine Dion's last Las Vegas performance. > > -- > > > > Elsewhere on > the Web > CNN.com: Chuck Norris says > book is not 'Truth' > ABC News: Even Celebrities 'Do > It' for Attention > USATODAY.com: Network and > cable prime-time highlights for Tuesday > > > ADVERTISEMENT > // // (c) 2007 adInterax, All Rights Reserved, http:// > adinterax.com // LOAD THIS PAGE INSIDE THE IFRAME // > adx_U_3983="[ your-click-through-URL-goes-here ]"; > adx_D_3983="http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12hgttkvl/ > M=557574.11624370.12118294.7195156/D=news/S=46079015:MIP1/ > _ylt=Aoto97x_p6P531t6tjw_fagnHL8C/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1198536389/A=5044887/ > R=0/*"; //adx_I_3983="[ your-impression-track-pixel-URL-goes- > here ]"; adx_data_3983="A=6,AN=Y_Food_Meal% > 2fY_Food_Meal_180x150,AC=,AV=,PB=1/ > SIG=14f9kg8bg,X=1198529189,B=5044887,C=557574.11624370.12118294.719515 > 6,D=MIP1,Z=,R=news,P=yQtMLkWTcur5D7BCRZlanQS2RDAmakdwGqUAAH5x,E=460790 > 15,Y=YAHOO,V=1.0"; function adl_3983(){ var > d=document,r=d.referrer,i,a,b='ad',e,p=new Array > ("data","U","D","I"); var u="http://richmedia.yimg.com/js/6/ > Y_Food_Meal/Y_Food_Meal_180x150"; if(top!=self){try > {a=''+top.location}catch(e){} if(a){adxid=Math.random();b='ad- > iframe'}else if(r){ u=((r&(i=r.indexOf("/",9))>0)?r.substring > (0,i):r)+"/adx-iframe-v3.html#ad="+u; > for(i=0;i'); return}}d.write('')} adl_3983(); > > > > setTimeout('document.getElementById("adl_S_3983").src="http:// > richmedia.yimg.com/customer/06/6/Y_Food_Meal/ > Y_Food_Meal_180x150.ns.js?adxq=1195086095"',1) if > (window.yzq_d==null)window.yzq_d=new Object(); window.yzq_d > ['NfZnU0LEYrg-']='&U=13brjjbr7%2fN%3dNfZnU0LEYrg-%2fC% > 3d557574.11624370.12118294.7195156%2fD%3dMIP1%2fB%3d5044887'; > Yahoo! Broadway Tony Awards > Check out exclusive video, photos, news and more! > > --> USA TODAY Blog Pop Candy > Whitney Matheson blogs on showbiz. > > » Entertainment on USAToday > > USA TODAY Celeb Watch > USATODAY's reporter goes face-to-face with a star. > > > > --> > -- > > > > > NEWS > ALERTS Get an alert when there are new stories about: > [input] [input] > [input] Carnegie Hall > [input] Ella Fitzgerald > [input] Nicolas Sarkozy > [input] Nat King Cole > [input] Duke Ellington > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. > Try it now. > --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 11:54:01 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Zizek on Beethoven In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline David, Having grown up in Turkey and knowing the place reasonably intimately, I ca= n give a more nuanced view of what is going on in Turkey and in Northern Iraq (Kurdistan). The long held dream of the Kurds in the area is to have an independent Kurdish state embracing the areas where the Kurds live. This includes significant portions of Turkey, Iran, Syria and what used to be called Iraq. In fact, the Kurdish dream runs against the national identitie= s of several Middle Eastern States, constituting a incipient balkanizing force, a force for chaos. That was one of the major reasons why attacking Iraq was such a stupid idea and why the first Bush stopped the first Iraq war before overhrowing Hossein. In fact, I would bet that was the secret agreement the United States had with Syria and Turkey to get them join the coalition for the first war. My guess is that Iran does not want Iraq to fall apart either (only an Iraq as much as possible under pro Iran/Shiite control). If the Iraqi state completely falls apart, Iran may start having Kurdish guerrila movements in its borders also. The fact of a national state (especially of a bigger size) always runs against ethnic, tribal and even cultural lines. As a result, by definition, the idea of state involves a suppression. (Here one may have a parallel wit= h language where a statement, even more a given linguistic system) always suppresses something, while revealing something. As poets, you and I are very much after these suppressions. We must realize that while, one the one hand, what we are after as poets is an attraction to chaos -a dialectic against power- the other side of the coin, in the actual world this leads to wars, conflicts, people getting killed. That is the tectonic dimension of the fall of the Soviet Empire. A huge controlling force is removed. All sorts of historical pent-up hostilities, wishes, hopes are released, and no force balances them. That is, I think, the Chinese anxiety about dissent. One should not forget that modern China is the results of centuries long conquests. What will happen i= f the lid comes off the pot? That's why the absolute insistence of the Chines= e that Taiwan must be part of the national state. The Unites States is relatively l"ucky" in that way. The American Indians are so destroyed (and now coopted through casino franchizes) that they are very unlikely to creat= e a national threat. Also, the American Civil War may have acted as an inoculation, having occurred one and a half centuries earlier. Today, such = a war would have led to the disintegration of the state. Ciao, Murat On Dec 25, 2007 11:29 PM, David Chirot wrote: > It's been interesting to find of late that Zizek is "an Op Ed Contributor= " > to the NY Times. > His pieces so far have received the response Laura notes herself > finding------that it's amazing to find him so comprehensible. Given the > Times' recent history, one even wonders if he is becoming an "embedded > reporter." > > I thought the timing of the piece--and of its appearance in the > Times-- very interesting. It's "cultural" argument for the inclusion of > Turkey in the EU comes during Turkey's bombings of the rebel Kurds inside > Iraq. Iraq is not too happy about this. But then who listens to them? > The > bombings are openly aided and supported by the Americans who claim also t= o > be the Iraqi government's allies. > > It was not very long ago, remember, that the Americans and Turks > were on the verge of a big split over the issue of the Armenians. > American > lawmakers had voted to recognize Turkish actions against the Armenians > almost a century ago as a genocide. This was unacceptable to both Turkey > and Israel. The Americans don't want to lose their huge air bases in > Turkey > and neither the Americans nor Israelis are very comfortable having > genocide > and ethnic cleansing being in the spotlight. > > Up to now, the Kurds have been relative outsiders to the hell of > Iraq. The last person to attack them with a real show of force was > Saddam. Once upon a time, the Americans loudly used what Saddam had done > to > the Kurds among their reasons to depose the Evil Dictator. Now the USA i= s > adding Turkey in bombing the same people Saddam had. > > (Saddam had gassed the Kurds with weapons give him by the American= s > to use on Iranians during the 10 year war between Iraq and Iran. Despite > massive efforts and support by Americans, Saddam was not able to defeat > the > Islamic Republic.) > > Having reversed direction on the Armenians, the Americans now > embrace > the Turks more than before. One can see where the Times publishing this > piece in the further interest of Turkey fits well with the new US policy > and > that of it allies Turkey and Israel. > > Previously i had forwarded to the list an October 11, 2007 Times O= p > Ed by Zizek with another interesting take, in that case, re China's > outlawing of reincarnation. > > The final two paragraphs of that article, "How China Got religion= " > > http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/11/opinion/11zizek.html?_r=3D1&th&emc=3Dth= &oref=3Dslogin > --- > are interesting to return to in thinking of this latest essay: > > "Culture" has commonly become the name for all those things we practice > without really taking seriously. And this is why we dismiss fundamentalis= t > believers as "barbarians" with a "medieval mindset": they dare to take > their > beliefs seriously. Today, we seem to see the ultimate threat to culture a= s > coming from those who live immediately in their culture, who lack the > proper > distance. > > Perhaps we find China's reincarnation laws so outrageous not because they > are alien to our sensibility, but because they spill the secret of what w= e > have done for so long: respectfully tolerating what we don't take quite > seriously, and trying to contain its political consequences through the > law. > > > > > On Dec 25, 2007 12:52 PM, laura hinton wrote: > > > I agree that the NYT piece was well done. Does anyone know if this > > reading > > has been done before? Beethoven's refusal to provide a comfortable > > resting > > place within the radical edges of the 9th has been used as > representation > > of > > nationhood and authoritarian order. Doesn't the Ode itself play on > this > > ironic possibility in its own structure (and the potential uses of art > by > > the establishment/the state)? I was impressed -- > > > > and it's the first time I've been able to comprehend Zizek. > > > > Laura > > > > On Dec 25, 2007 12:09 PM, Pierre Joris wrote: > > > > > Mark, > > > > > > that didn't seem to me to be a bad piece at all =96 & where is the b= ad > > > musicology? I was raised in Europe with that piece of music & > > > Schiller's poem used for every plausible & implausible occasion & > > > laughed out loud when it was pulled in again to become the pan- > > > European anthem. So Zizek's analysis of the marcia turca bit struck m= e > > > as rather insightful, & his move from there to the exclusion of Turke= y > > > from the EEC, an interesting even if somewhat fancy two-step. > > > > > > happy hols to one & all, > > > > > > Pierre > > > > > > On Dec 24, 2007, at 1:36 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > > > > > > > A truly idiotic op ed piece in the Times by Slavoj Zizek, about the > > > > European Union's anthem, Beethoven's setting of Schiller's An die > > > > Freude--Ode to Joy. Somebody ought to tell him that the poem was > > > > written as An die Freiheit--Ode to Freedom--as Beethoven and > > > > everybody else at the time knew (one assumes the folks in Brussels > > > > are aware, as well), and the censors made him change it. Through > > > > some very questionable musicology, Zizek turns the setting into an > > > > appeal for the admission of Turkey to the EU. Really. > > > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > > > > > > The poet: always in partibus infidelium -- Paul Celan > > > ___________________________________________________________ > > > Pierre Joris > > > 244 Elm Street > > > Albany NY 12202 > > > h: 518 426 0433 > > > c: 518 225 7123 > > > o: 518 442 40 71 > > > Euro cell: (011 33) 6 75 43 57 10 > > > email: joris@albany.edu > > > http://pierrejoris.com > > > Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 13:16:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ryan Daley Subject: Re: Piazzolla In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70712260025i6589d653x3df779edf94954c2@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline I love tango. On Dec 26, 2007 3:25 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Astor Piazzolla was very well known with the generation of his time. > People > valued him like my generation did with the Beatles or the Rolling Stones. > I > guess that if you like Tango, as they do in Buenos Aires, then Piazzolla > is > still a very popular hero. > > On Dec 25, 2007 2:51 AM, Ryan Daley wrote: > > > I have long been fascinated by Astor Piazzolla, his life and work. > Here's > > a > > great quote from him about Nadia Boulanger, one of the greatest music > > teachers of the 20th Century: > > > > *When I met her, I showed her my kilos of symphonies and sonatas. She > > started to read them and suddenly came out with a horrible sentence: > "It's > > very well written." And stopped, with a big period, round like a soccer > > ball. After a long while, she said: "Here you are like Stravinsky, like > > Bart=F3k, like Ravel, but you know what happens? I can't find Piazzolla= in > > this." And she began to investigate my private life: what I did, what I > > did > > and did not play, if I was single, married, or living with someone, she > > was > > like an FBI agent! And I was very ashamed to tell her that I was a tang= o > > musician. Finally I said, "I play in a night club." I didn't want to > > say **cabaret. > > And she answered, "Night club, mais oui, but that is a cabaret, isn't > it?" > > "Yes," I answered, and thought, "I'll hit this woman in the head with a > > radio...." It wasn't easy to lie to her. She kept asking: "You say that > > you > > are not pianist. What instrument do you play, then?" And I didn't want > to > > tell her that I was a bandoneon player, because I thought, "Then she > will > > throw me from the fourth floor." Finally, I confessed and she asked me > to > > play some bars of a tango of my own. She suddenly opened her eyes, took > my > > hand and told me: "You idiot, that's Piazzolla!" And I took all the > music > > I > > composed, ten years of my life, and sent it to hell in two seconds. > > > > *Happy Holidays. > > > > -Ryan > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 13:32:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Camille Martin Subject: BookThug Book Party, NYC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If you're going to be in New York on Saturday, December 29, come to the BookThug Book Party at the Bowery Poetry Club! =20 Saturday, December 29, 2-4 pm =20 Featured readers: =20 Cara Benson =20 Greg Betts =20 Jason Dickson =20 Lisa Jarnot =20 Evan Kennedy =20 Camille Martin =20 Jay Millar =20 Gregory Pardlo =20 BookThug is a Toronto-based independent publisher of chapbooks and trade = books of poetry and poetically minded literature. =20 $8 =20 The Bowery Poetry Club=20 308 Bowery, New York, NY 212.614.0505=20 =20 foot of First Street, between Houston & Bleecker=20 across the street from CBGBs F train to Second Ave, or 6 train to Bleecker ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 11:37:36 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nico Vassilakis Subject: Subtext New Year Happening: Reprise of Anniversary Reading In-Reply-To: <8CA1606B0E4F955-9DC-257D@FWM-D21.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello out there. January is a bye month for Subtext. Instead, we are offer= ing a virtual reprise of our 13th anniversary reading. You can attempt to = relive the launch of the reading series at the Chapel Performance Space at = the Good Shepherd Center! Videos of the following readers are available NO= W on our new blog at: http://www.SubtextReadingSeries.blogspot.com Curtis Bonney, Joseph Bradshaw, Daniel Comiskey, Crystal Curry, Christine D= eavel, April Denonno, Adriana Grant, Drew Kunz, Sarah Mangold, Ezra Mark, B= ryant Mason, Robert Mittenthal, Paul Nelson, Melanie Noel, Doug Nufer, Mick= ey O=92Connor, John Olson, Roberta Olson, C.E. Putnam, Willie Smith, Craig = Van Riper, Nico Vassilakis, Bethany Wright & Maged Zaher.=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3DUpcoming events:February 6, 2008 - Hank Lazer (Tuscaloosa, A= L) & Leonard Schwartz (Olympia)March 5, 2008 - Steve McCaffery (Toronto/Buf= falo) & InterruptureMore info at Nonsequitur web site - http://nseq.blogspo= t.comDetails on the Chapel at: http://gschapel.blogspot.comSPECIAL THANKS t= o NONSEQUITUR for co-sponsoring subtext!!=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D... & finally th= anks to you for being here & for attending &/or participating in the variou= s subtext events in 2007!January 3, 2007 Paul Hoover & Maxine Chernoff (= both Bay Area)February 7, 2007 Lindsay Hill (Portland) & C.E. PutnamMarc= h 7, 2007 Rob Fitterman (NYC) & Bryant MasonApril 4, 2007 Jocelyn= Saidenberg (Bay Area) & Curtis BonneyMay 2, 2007 - Charles Alexander (Tucs= on AZ) with music of Tim Risher (Florida) presented by Mike Katel and ensem= ble =96 at Hugo House TheatreJune 6, 2007 - Subtext Anniversary Reading =96= SERIES MOVES to Good Shepherd / Chapel Performance Space! July 4, 2007 - N= o Reading August 1, 2007 - Peter Culley (Nanaimo, BC) & Joseph Donahue (Du= rham, NC)September 5, 2007 - Lissa Wolsak (Vancouver, BC) & Robert Mittent= halOctober 3, 2007 - Kathleen Fraser (Bay Area) & Crystal CurryNovember 7, = 2007 - Golden Handcuffs Review Reading =96 Seattle Issue LaunchDecember 5, = 2007 - Alison Knowles (New York) =96 co-presented with nonsequiturHappy hol= idays &c!=20 = ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 15:01:11 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Simon DeDeo Subject: the first annual rhubarb is susan reader's survey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Learn about your fellow poets! The no-holds-barred, crazy inappropriate survey of writing, reading, and social-mark performing habits of the rhubarb is susan readership! http://rhubarbissusan.blogspot.com/2007/12/first-annual-rhubarb-readers-survey.html http://rhubarbissusan.blogspot.com/ Tune in and join the (moderated) flamewar, Simon ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 16:55:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: **Help The Portable Boog Reader 2** Comments: To: "UB Poetics discussion group "@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, Laura Elrick, Brenda Iijima, Mark Lamoureux, Christina Strong, Rodrigo Toscano, and I have gathered work from 72 New York City poets. Now this weekend 2,500 copies of The Portable Boog Reader 2, An Anthology of New Yor= k City Poetry will be distributed in the East Village, and Williamsburg and Greenpoint, Brooklyn, and posted on http://welcometoboogcity.com/, too. We're all real excited to share this great work and to have an anthology available to so many people for free. We can use your help in providing the last bit to push us over the top. Please consider advertising in this issue or donating any amount you can afford. Happy New Year. as ever, David ----------------------- =20 Advertise in =20 Boog City 47: The Portable Boog Reader 2, An Anthology of New York City Poetry Edited by=20 Laura Elrick, Brenda Iijima, Mark Lamoureux, Christina Strong, Rodrigo Toscano, and me, David Kirschenbaum =20 We=B9re going to be distributing 2,500 copies of a 24-page issue of our tabloid-size paper Boog City--the equivalent in size of a 96-page, 5.375=B2 x 8=B2 anthology--throughout Manhattan's East Village, and Williamsburg and Greenpoint, Brooklyn. **Deadline** =20 --Fri. Dec. 28-Ad copy to editor --Sat. Dec. 29-Issue to be distributed =20 Email to reserve ad space ASAP =20 Issue Will Feature Work From: Bruce Andrews Ellen Baxt Jim Behrle Jen Benka Charles Bernstein Anselm Berrigan Charles Borkhuis Ana Bozicevic-Bowling Lee Ann Brown Allison Cobb Julia Cohen Todd Colby Brenda Coultas Alan Davies M=F3nica de la Torre LaTasha N. Nevada Diggs Thom Donovan Joe Elliot Robert Fitterman Corrine Fitzpatrick G.L. Ford Greg Fuchs Joanna Fuhrman Drew Gardner Eric Gelsinger Garth Graeper David Micah Greenberg E. Tracy Grinnell Christine Hamm Robert Hershon Mitch Highfill Bob Holman Paolo Javier Paul Foster Johnson Eliot Katz Erica Kaufman Amy King Bill Kushner Rachel Levitsky Andrew Levy Brendan Lorber Kimberly Lyons Dan Machlin Jill Magi Gillian McCain Sharon Mesmer Carol Mirakove Anna Moschovakis Murat Nemet-Nejat Cate Peebles Tim Peterson Simon Pettet Wanda Phipps Nick Piombino Kristin Prevallet Arlo Quint Evelyn Reilly Kim Rosenfield Lauren Russell Kyle Schlesinger Nathaniel Siegel Joanna Sondheim Chris Stackhouse Stacy Szymaszek Edwin Torres Anne Waldman Shanxing Wang Lewis Warsh Karen Weiser Angela Veronica Wong Matvei Yankelevich Lila Zemborain ----- =20 Take advantage of our indie discount ad rate. We are once again offering a 50% discount on our 1/8-page ads, cutting them from $60 to $30. (The discount rate also applies to larger ads. Please inquire for a rate card.) =20 Advertise your small press's newest publications, your own titles or upcoming readings, or maybe salute an author you feel people should be reading, with a few suggested books to buy. And musical acts, advertise you= r new albums, indie labels your new releases. =20 (We're also cool with donations, real cool.) =20 Email editor@boogcity.com or call 212-842-BOOG(2664) for more information. =20 thanks, David =20 --=20 David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://welcometoboogcity.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 09:19:32 +1100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jill Jones Subject: Re: christmas cheer In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20071225123842.066473e0@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v915) Hi Mark, This year it was windy and cool for the season, so that would have been a bunch of chilly-ish 'waifs and strays' (including a lot of Poms) on Bondi Beach. We still ate seafoood (oysters) and watermelon and watched the Queen's message (she's now on YouTube, or is it WeTube for the royals?). Now for the Sydney to Hobart yacht race and the Boxing Day test (cricket) in Melbourne. Whether one watches these events or not (we being in the 'not' camp, though I wouldn't mind seeing Tendulkar have a hit), they are everpresent. Someone said it was snowing in south-west Tassie but it's hot as bug**ry in Perth. Boxing Day cheers from Sydney, Jill __________________________ Jill Jones jpjones@ihug.com.au website: www.jilljones.com.au blog: rubystreet.blogspot.com On 26/12/2007, at 4:39 AM, Mark Weiss wrote: > Here's how they're doing it in Australia. http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2007/12/25/world/20071225_CHRISTMAS_SLIDESHOW_5.html > > Cheers, > > Mark ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 17:33:39 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tony Trigilio Organization: http://www.starve.org Subject: Re: Piazzolla MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ryan-- Do you know Elaine Equi's poem, "Astor Piazzolla"? We published it in Court Green #2 (2005). Backchannel me with your address and I'd be happy to mail you a copy. Best, Tony > Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 20:51:28 -0500 > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Sender: UB Poetics discussion group > From: Ryan Daley > Subject: Piazzolla > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > Content-Disposition: inline > > I have long been fascinated by Astor Piazzolla, his life and work. > Here's a great quote from him about Nadia Boulanger, one of the > greatest music teachers of the 20th Century: *When I met her, I showed > her my kilos of symphonies and sonatas. She started to read them and > suddenly came out with a horrible sentence: "It's very well written." > And stopped, with a big period, round like a soccer ball. After a long > while, she said: "Here you are like Stravinsky, like Bartók, like > Ravel, but you know what happens? I can't find Piazzolla in this." And > she began to investigate my private life: what I did, what I did and > did not play, if I was single, married, or living with someone, she > was like an FBI agent! And I was very ashamed to tell her that I was a > tango musician. Finally I said, "I play in a night club." I didn't > want to say **cabaret. And she answered, "Night club, mais oui, but > that is a cabaret, isn't it?" "Yes," I answered, and thought, "I'll > hit this woman in the head with a radio...." It wasn't easy to lie to > her. She kept asking: "You say that you are not pianist. What > instrument do you play, then?" And I didn't want to tell her that I > was a bandoneon player, because I thought, "Then she will throw me > from the fourth floor." Finally, I confessed and she asked me to play > some bars of a tango of my own. She suddenly opened her eyes, took my > hand and told me: "You idiot, that's Piazzolla!" And I took all the > music I composed, ten years of my life, and sent it to hell in two > seconds. *Happy Holidays. -Ryan ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 18:01:40 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: BookThug Book Party, NYC In-Reply-To: <4784CDC4B5E9D84AA76749D05E69C76E873AA1@mail3.arts.ryerson.ca> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I'll be there in spirits. So drink up! gb On Dec 26, 2007, at 10:32 AM, Camille Martin wrote: > If you're going to be in New York on Saturday, December 29, > > come to the BookThug Book Party at the Bowery Poetry Club! > > > > Saturday, December 29, 2-4 pm > > > > Featured readers: > > > > Cara Benson > > > > Greg Betts > > > > Jason Dickson > > > > Lisa Jarnot > > > > Evan Kennedy > > > > Camille Martin > > > > Jay Millar > > > > Gregory Pardlo > > > > BookThug is a Toronto-based independent publisher of chapbooks and > trade books of poetry and poetically minded literature. > > > > $8 > > > > The Bowery Poetry Club > > 308 Bowery, New York, NY > > 212.614.0505 > > > > foot of First Street, between Houston & Bleecker > > across the street from CBGBs > > F train to Second Ave, or 6 train to Bleecker > > Mr. G. Bowering Sonneteer to the Stars ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 01:08:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Jet Blue Wireless Beta Test MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed (There's a definite poetics in the below; wireless is now spreading to the skies. The skein expands.) Jet Blue Wireless Beta Test (We flew from Denver-NY on a specially equipped Jet Blue plane w/ wireless service in Beta; only Yahoo mail or IM could be received; the format was non-standard and primitive.) Full header of sent message: > From azurecarter@yahoo.com Wed Dec 26 17:54:32 2007 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on mailbackend.panix.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=disabled version=3.2.3 Lines: 155 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sondheim@panix.com Delivered-To: sondheim@panix.com Received: from mail3.panix.com (mail3.panix.com [166.84.1.74]) by mailbackend.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04F9622115 for ; Wed, 26 Dec 2007 17:54:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from web52405.mail.re2.yahoo.com (web52405.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.48.168]) by mail3.panix.com (Postfix) with SMTP id BB5E113A86D for ; Wed, 26 Dec 2007 17:54:24 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 87422 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Dec 2007 22:54:24 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME -Version:Content-Type:Message-ID; b=PRIrTBuEFT8hVyyXztUaezvkg6sVVK3yj/MgcpwPDhJkESa4mH462Gd0WAMgn6sNisH2Dw SU9WucLhwQ6ZdSaxX47zs6dHMiDmntdaU5oAs4votNgZqMBjA4s2x0ePbMhUhNCX2I3o4PUa qCgtWoXwI21S1l5epdUN47iuMog9Y=; X-YMail-OSG: 15kMeC8VM1nCuv9mS66qadnwfqUmYDkzpXK8ysbIUxNjBXSaRScHDunShuXjYl9PvHKnhrfF dfXlETOoqhpWXVlHA_hl3CmJWMDIWsj0aSpGnZmF_K8be5xd1N0JuSY4weSYyOTjpQ-- Received: from [69.147.67.126] by web52405.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 26 Dec 2007 14:54:24 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.158.1 Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 14:54:24 -0800 (PST) From: Azure Carter Subject: RE: Coal Ash Is More Radioactive than Nuclear Waste (fwd) To: "sondheim@panix.com" Cc: "Charles.Baldwin@mail.wvu.edu" , "sbaldwin66@gmail.com" , "FrancesVanScoy@aol.com" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-ID: <469371.52899.qm@web52405.mail.re2.yahoo.com> This isn't what it seems; I'm doing beta testing for wireless on a Jet Blue flight from Denver to New York City; it only allows one to go to Yahoo. I'm curious about the full header - we'll see. I've not been able to use telnet or get out of the proprietary Yahoo environment. In a moment I'll play around with Net Stumbler and see what comes up! - Alan Netstumbler summary: # $Creator: Network Stumbler Version 0.4.0 # $Format: wi-scan summary with extensions # Latitude Longitude ( SSID ) Type ( BSSID ) Time (GMT) [ SNR Sig Noise ] # ( Name ) Flags Channelbits BcnIntvl DataRate LastChannel # $DateGMT: 2007-12-26 N 0.0000000 E 0.0000000 ( BetaBlue ) BSS ( 00:03:52:e2:d8:30 ) 22:58:51 (GMT) [ 65 114 49 ] # ( ) 0021 00000800 100 540 11 N 0.0000000 E 0.0000000 ( BetaBlue ) BSS ( 00:03:52:e2:b9:30 ) 22:58:51 (GMT) [ 52 101 49 ] # ( ) 0021 00000002 100 540 1 N 0.0000000 E 0.0000000 ( BetaBlue ) BSS ( 00:03:52:e2:7e:90 ) 22:58:51 (GMT) [ 62 111 49 ] # ( ) Netstumbler GUI: http://www.alansondheim.org/betablue.jpg ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 05:47:14 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adam Fieled Subject: PFS Post: Lina Ramona Vitkauskas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Check out two sparkling new poems from Chicago poet Lina Ramona Vitkauskas on PFS Post: http://www.artrecess.blogspot.com PFS Presents, a floating reading series, is next appearing at Kate the Great's, Andersonville, Chicago, on January 3, 2008, with: Larry Sawyer, Lina Ramona Vitkauskas, Steve Halle, Melissa Severin, and Adam Fieled, 7:30 pm. Books!!! "Opera Bufa" http://www.lulu.com/content/1137210 "Beams" http://www.blazevox.org/ebk-af.pdf --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 07:47:13 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: Piazzolla In-Reply-To: <9778b8630712261016u2cf72448ub1e62bcddc2fa83e@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit It's interesting to note that, in spite or maybe because of his experience with Nadia Boulanger, Piazzolla later wrote many "tango" works for classical musicians, some of which I have heard played in standard classical concerts. So he ended up being a lot more than just a cabaret or a nightclub musician. Still, this is a nice story about Boulanger and him. Thanks for sharing it. Regards, Tom Savage Ryan Daley wrote: I love tango. On Dec 26, 2007 3:25 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Astor Piazzolla was very well known with the generation of his time. > People > valued him like my generation did with the Beatles or the Rolling Stones. > I > guess that if you like Tango, as they do in Buenos Aires, then Piazzolla > is > still a very popular hero. > > On Dec 25, 2007 2:51 AM, Ryan Daley wrote: > > > I have long been fascinated by Astor Piazzolla, his life and work. > Here's > > a > > great quote from him about Nadia Boulanger, one of the greatest music > > teachers of the 20th Century: > > > > *When I met her, I showed her my kilos of symphonies and sonatas. She > > started to read them and suddenly came out with a horrible sentence: > "It's > > very well written." And stopped, with a big period, round like a soccer > > ball. After a long while, she said: "Here you are like Stravinsky, like > > Bartók, like Ravel, but you know what happens? I can't find Piazzolla in > > this." And she began to investigate my private life: what I did, what I > > did > > and did not play, if I was single, married, or living with someone, she > > was > > like an FBI agent! And I was very ashamed to tell her that I was a tango > > musician. Finally I said, "I play in a night club." I didn't want to > > say **cabaret. > > And she answered, "Night club, mais oui, but that is a cabaret, isn't > it?" > > "Yes," I answered, and thought, "I'll hit this woman in the head with a > > radio...." It wasn't easy to lie to her. She kept asking: "You say that > > you > > are not pianist. What instrument do you play, then?" And I didn't want > to > > tell her that I was a bandoneon player, because I thought, "Then she > will > > throw me from the fourth floor." Finally, I confessed and she asked me > to > > play some bars of a tango of my own. She suddenly opened her eyes, took > my > > hand and told me: "You idiot, that's Piazzolla!" And I took all the > music > > I > > composed, ten years of my life, and sent it to hell in two seconds. > > > > *Happy Holidays. > > > > -Ryan > > > --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 07:50:08 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Carmontelle's Transparent Drawings Are a Precursor to Modern Cinema - New York Times MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/27/arts/design/27tran.html?th&emc=th --- very amazing & interesting piece-- i want to find out what kind of gum Carmontelle used! his activities that included a "transparent" representation of a documentary nature and the making of Earth Works--the artificial topologies/environments of "Gardens" and parks, the pastoral from which labor is vanished except for that simulated by artistocrats toying with a hoe-- the use of "son et lumiere"-- very stimulating and thought proving piece-- the mixing of the tracing of forms with the addition of imagined ones as decorations which as are also "natural" -- the bare limbs of trees traced carefully from window view--with the fruits of another season added-- a "compression" of time into one image using the "documentary" and the "imaginary/from memory"-- in which there is a from of the resolution of WCW's "Only the Imagination is real" (Spring and All, 1926) and "no ideas but in things, Mr" from latter 1940's Paterson) "travel" as the unwinding of the of the scroll--the method of the later panoramas, except here lit from back trhough a screen rather than lit from the front, onto an opaque background on top of which the image "sits"-- the mimicing of the Enlgish style of the park, which is "closer to Nature" than the artificality of th French styles-- the screen and park as liminal spaces of the representational and the imaginary-- quite different from the liminal cemeteries serving as conduits to both the suburbs and eternity-- (though Carmontelle's work is for the entertainment of upper classes, and the cemetery-parks for the utilitarian/spiritual "uplift" of the bougeoisie)-- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 11:02:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Evans Subject: Sylvester Pollet Comments: cc: MaJo Keleshian Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed It is with a heavy heart that I write to share the news that Sylvester Pollet, poet, publisher, and associate editor for the National Poetry Foundation, passed away on December 20th. As many on the Poetics List can attest to firsthand, Sylvester was a magnificent person whose passion for life, for poetry, for friendship, was unquenchable. We mourn his loss and celebrate his wonderful accomplishment, treasuring the volumes of poetry, the Backwoods Broadsides chaplets, the invaluable editorial work (most recently on Joanne Kyger's ABOUT NOW), and the countless fond memories he leaves behind. Sylvester's wife, the artist MaJo Keleshian, has asked that those wishing to honor his memory consider contributing to the Himalayan Children's Fund, a cause very dear to Sylvester and MaJo for many years (especially following their trip to Nepal of several years ago, where they saw for themselves the good work accomplished by donations to the Fund). More about the program, and how to donate, can be found here: http://www.rinpoche.com/hcf.html MaJo has also asked that any postings to this list be cc'd to her at MaJo_Keleshian@umit.maine.edu To close, a short poem from Sylvester's 1982 volume, Entering the Walking-Stick Business: SELF-PORTRAIT WITH SNOW you understand I could tell you more about the lines of snow edging the black maples the clumps of it weighting the pine boughs if it weren't for the transparent man typing at a floating table three feet beyond the window ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 11:20:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William James Austin Subject: Blackbox submission period closed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thanks to all who sent submissions.? The fall gallery will be online shortly.? Best, Bill ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 12:38:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Jack Kerouac and his Work Discussed on New Focus Radio MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hard-hitting investigative reporter Mike DeRosa continues his series on the life and legacy of Jack Kerouac with guest robert Perrault: http://www.newfocusradio.org/audio/kerouac_2007_10_19.mp3 Other episodes in the Kerouac series can be found in the New Focus Radio archives: http://www.newfocusradio.org/ DeRosa's investigative reporting should appeal to many subscribers to the Poetics List. He addresses many political and social issues discussed on the List. I recommend it highly. Vernon ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 12:53:44 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Thomas-Glass Subject: With + Stand MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline "Advice to intellectuals: let no-one represent you." -Adorno 4 days left: withplusstand.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 17:45:02 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve russell Subject: Re: Oscar Peterson, 82, has died/ is mourned by French In-Reply-To: <548475.15810.qm@web31112.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit John Cunningham managed to get Peterson alone with a bottle of scotch. What luck. I never saw Peterson live. I did manage to catch a number of jazz legends who played with Peterson at the Lake Bueno Vista lounge in Orlando, Florida. Of course, the lounge is no longer in Bueno Vista. It was too good to last. Still, I won't forget seeing Herb Ellis, Barney Kessel, Zoot Sims, & Nat Adderly at the lounge. During breaks, the musicians would generously chat with their fans. Barney Kessel would give a mini/seminar during intermissions. Guitar players regarded him as something of a guru, & rightfully so. Thomas savage wrote: I shed a tear for Oscar Peterson, too, when I saw the obituary in the Times, although I don't think I ever heard him live. Did he ever play in the Charlie Parker Festival? If he did, then I did hear him once. My memory of him is so strong, I must have encountered him somewhere or other in New York's very small jazz universe. Regards, Tom Savage Charles Alexander wrote: What a musician! I heard him once live in a small club in a hotel in San Francisco, probably 1975 or 1974. I was in college and went alone to that one. I sat just a bit behind Clint Eastwood. The entire room seemed like it didn't hold more than 75 people or so. All I remember is feeling like I wasn't really any "place" at all. Just in the music. charles charles alexander chax press chax@theriver.com 650 e. ninth st. tucson arizona 85705 520 620 1626 On Dec 24, 2007, at 1:56 PM, steve russell wrote: > French President Nicolas Sarkozy mourns his loss. It's doubtful > that an American politician would recognize the name. > Jazz great Oscar Peterson > dies at > 82 > > By ROB GILLIES, Associated Press > Writer > 3 minutes ago > > TORONTO - Oscar Peterson, whose early > talent, speedy fingers and musical genius made him one of the > world's best known jazz pianists, died at age 82. > ADVERTISEMENT >