========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 02:10:35 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Alan Sondheim Subject: YouTube recording of our set at Bowery Poetry Club MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed YouTube recording of our set at Bowery Poetry Club Today we visited ESP-Disk and found that someone had put up part of our set on YouTube - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAre8RTwF5g - Azure Carter singing, I'm on an Epiphone electric, no effects. Do check this out! It's not a particularly good video but it gives an idea of our live music, at least on guitar. (Next set is January 25, on guitar, tenor banjo, Alpine zither.) - Alan ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 06:56:17 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jesse Glass Subject: Happy New Year from Ahadada Books MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" See what we're up to: www.ahadadabooks.com Jess ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 05:16:49 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Paul Nelson Subject: Re: capitalism and the long poem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable One of the most fascinating developments of the post-modern era = Troy,=0A=0AOne of the most fascinating developments of the post-modern era = (& the era since then) is the development (evolution) of the Serial Poem. R= obin Blaser's 'The Holy Forest' and Nate Mackey's 'Mu' or 'Song of the Ando= umbolou' (which together could be considered part of the same poem) are two= stellar examples of this. These are more recent examples and 'The Maximus = Poems' and 'Paterson' are other examples and I am sure folks on the list co= uld chip in their own favorites.=0A=0AThe narrative that emerges is not as = obvious and requires more study, more of a commitment than what was previou= sly known as 'epic.'=0A=0AThe recognition of these in a mode similar to the= epics of the past is very much a function of this shift in literature, esp= ecially after 1945 (the beginning of the post-modern era) and Jack Spicer's= notion gets close to summing it up:=0A=0A=85The trick naturally is what Du= ncan learned=0Ayears ago and tried to teach us =96 not to search for the pe= rfect poem but to let=0Ayour way of writing of the moment go along its own = paths, explore and retreat=0Abut never be fully realized (confined) within = the boundaries of one poem...=0A=0A =0A=0AIt's pleasing to be back to actua= l poetics on the poetics list.=0A=0AHappy New Year.=0A=0A =0APaul E. Nelson= =0A=0AGlobal Voices Radio=0ASPLAB!=0AAmerican Sentences=0AOrganic Poetry= =0APoetry Postcard Blog=0A=0AIlalqo, WA 253.735.6328=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A= =0A________________________________=0AFrom: Troy Camplin =0ATo: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=0ASent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008= 10:50:09 AM=0ASubject: Re: capitalism and the long poem=0A=0AI think we've= become obsessed with it precisely because it's fallen out of favor. Somebo= dy, or a few people, wondered where it went, and began writing about it. It= seems to me that the long poem became impossible with the abandonment of n= arrative by poets. How long can one keep up a feeling or a mood or an "expe= riment"? Frederick Fierstein writes quite long poems, but his poems also ha= ve narratives holding them together. Frederick Turner has written two epic = poems. It seems that the gradual abandonment of narrative in poetry by the = Modernists, especially the late Modernists, and the postmodern poets, far m= ore than economic conditions, have contributed to the abandonment of long p= oetry as a form.=0A=0ATroy Camplin =0A=0A=0A=0A____________________________= ____=0AFrom: Eireene Nealand =0ATo: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUF= FALO.EDU=0ASent: Monday, December 29, 2008 1:45:57 PM=0ASubject: capitalism= and the long poem=0A=0AI sat down to write a little piece about this Russi= an poet, and came=0Aup with a strange take on the long poem--an idea that t= he seriality of=0Ait is somehow related to consumer capitalism--=0A=0Ahttp:= //tsky-reviews.blogspot.com/=0A=0Anot the pleasantest thought--=0A=0Aand so= I was wondering if anyone has any good counter arguments, or=0Adifferent t= akes on why so many are so obsessed with this form right=0Anow. & will we f= all out of love with it during the recession?=0A=0Ae=0A=0A=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=0AThe Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. C= heck guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.ht= ml=0A=0A=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0AThe Poetics List is moderated & does= not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffal= o.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 08:25:32 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Pierre Joris Subject: New Nomadics Posts! Comments: cc: "Poetryetc: poetry and poetics" , Britis-Irish List MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Check out these new posts on Nomadics blog =97 = http://pjoris.blogspot.com/ Happy New Year! "The Clash of Ignorance" Blanchot Celebration Online Now Mandelstam via Celan Celan on poetic practice ENVIRONMENTAL CRISIS 600.000 More Shoes to Hurl =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D "Play what you don't know" -- Sun Ra =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Pierre Joris 244 Elm Street Albany NY 12202-1310 h: 518 426 0433 c: 518 225 7123 o: 518 442 40 71 Euro cell: (011 33) 6 75 43 57 10 email: joris@albany.edu http://pierrejoris.com blog:http://pjoris.blogspot.com/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 10:09:58 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Adam Tobin Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (iPhone Mail 5B108) I don't think it's puritan moralizing to criticize prostitution; I think it's puritan moralizing to disallow its use as a metaphor. On Dec 31, 2008, at 5:43 PM, Ruth Lepson wrote: > sick of men saying it's puritan moralizing to criticize prostitution. > whether it shd be legal or not is a complicated question. but I make > no > judgment about prostitutes. if anything, I wish the world could hold > them in > its arms in a loving way to counteract all they suffer. > > > On 12/31/08 4:33 PM, "Adam Tobin" wrote: > >> >> Here's an interesting article, for those who are interested, about >> a more >> useful approach to bettering the terrible conditions of brothels: >> forming a >> prostitutes' union. >> http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=the-prostitutes-union >> >> I think as long as every mention of prostitution brings up just so >> much >> puritan moralizing, pimps and their bosses will continue to operate >> with >> impunity, out of the sight of polite society. Meanwhile police >> continue to >> fine and jail the women, in order to keep them out of sight of the >> neighbors >> whose real estate values they would otherwise >> lower.tp://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & >> sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 12:08:34 -0600 Reply-To: Jeff Hansen Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jeff Hansen Subject: World Premiere Opera based on Stein's The Making of the Americans Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A few weeks ago the Walker Arts Center in Minneapolis was the venue for the world premiere of the opera The Making of the Americans, which is based on the Gertrude Stein novel of the same name. It was directed by Jay Scheib, and written by Brooklyn-based composer Anthony Gatt. I have heard nothing but rave reviews of the event. On my blog there is an extended discussion about the event with Greg Hewett, a widely published poet, opera buff, and Carleton College English professor. http://experimentalfictionpoetry.blogspot.com/ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 13:15:24 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: FW: African American Literature - Conference Update and CFP In-Reply-To: LYRIS-93904-23730014-2009.01.01-12.29.29--aln10#psu.edu@listserv.unc.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Please share the following conference update with listservs and interested individuals. Thank you. Lovalerie  Call for Proposals (deadline February 5) Celebrating African American Literature: The Novel Since 1988 October 23-24, 2009, Nittany Lion Inn, Penn State-University Park  Confirmed Speakers: Maryemma Graham, Houston A. Baker, Jr., Alice Randall, Mat Johnson, and Martha Southgate  We invite paper, panel, and roundtable proposals on theoretical, critical, or pedagogical approaches to works produced since 1988. We are especially interested in proposals that address the work of featured novelists Alice Randall, Mat Johnson, and Martha Southgate. Proposals focusing on satire, transnationalism, cosmopolitanism, or any of the topics listed below are also welcomed. Selected essays will once again be edited for publication. [The previous conference yielded NEW ESSAYS ON THE AFRICAN AMERICAN NOVEL: FROM HURSTON AND ELLISON TO MORRISON AND WHITEHEAD (Palgrave 2008)] Aesthetic Frameworks or Models Comedy Music Detective Fiction Ethics Hip-Hop Literature and American Legal Discourse LGBT Novels Popular Fiction [Re]constructions of Race and/or Gender Revisioning Oral Traditions Revisioning Signifying Practice Sexuality Speculative Fiction Urban Experience Novels Submit carefully written abstracts (300 words) via e-mail attachment to: <#>. Please provide complete identification—names, institution name, phone numbers, and e-mail addresses. Deadline for submission is February 5, 2009. During March 2009 you will receive e-mail notification regarding abstract acceptance. Important note: Persons whose abstracts are accepted should register for the conference by August 15, 2009.  Questions regarding proposals should be sent to: Lovalerie King Department of English The Pennsylvania State University E-mail: <#> Conference Web site: http://www.outreach.psu.edu/programs/AfAmNovel It’s the same Hotmail®. If by “same” you mean up to 70% faster. -- You are currently subscribed to horton as: <#>. To unsubscribe send a blank email to <#> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> "Study the fine art of coming apart." --Jerry W. Ward, Jr. Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 13:16:08 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jack Foley Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline ANNOUNCING .......=20 FLASHPOINT EXTRA!=20 Winter 2009=20 http://www.flashpointmag.com=20 EZRA POUND & WALL STREET =20 featuring =20 CANTO XLV=20 "With Usura" =20 GIANO ACCAME (translated by WAYNE POUNDS) =20 ELLEN CARDONA DAVID HICKMAN =20 MAC OLIVER =20 BRENDON KERESEY =20 TONY EVANS =20 ROSALIE GANCIE CARLO PARCELLI "Along the frontier=20 where the arts & politics clash ..." =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 13:06:20 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: John Cunningham Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I never once ever remotely indicated that prostitution shouldn't be criticized, Ruth. I certainly do agree, separate and apart from the idea of puritan moralizing, that prostitution should be legalized and run in a humane manner where the health and safety of the women engaged in the practice are one of the paramount concerns. Prostitution has been with us forever and will continue to be with us forever. So, it certainly makes sense to respond to this in a manner that takes this into account. Hasn't your country learned from its experience with prohibition. The only thing that it accomplished through criminalization is to support organized crime and increase the need for a larger police force. Here in Canada, our Neo-Conservative Party, has goosestepped its way it thinking that all the evil in the world has been unleashed by having a safe injection site in Vancouver. Ah, the folly of modern government and society. John Herbert Cunningham -----Original Message----- From: Poetics List (UPenn, UB) [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Ruth Lepson Sent: December-31-08 4:43 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory sick of men saying it's puritan moralizing to criticize prostitution. whether it shd be legal or not is a complicated question. but I make no judgment about prostitutes. if anything, I wish the world could hold them in its arms in a loving way to counteract all they suffer. On 12/31/08 4:33 PM, "Adam Tobin" wrote: > > Here's an interesting article, for those who are interested, about a more > useful approach to bettering the terrible conditions of brothels: forming a > prostitutes' union. > http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=the-prostitutes-union > > I think as long as every mention of prostitution brings up just so much > puritan moralizing, pimps and their bosses will continue to operate with > impunity, out of the sight of polite society. Meanwhile police continue to > fine and jail the women, in order to keep them out of sight of the neighbors > whose real estate values they would otherwise > lower.tp://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 14:10:16 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Corey Frost Subject: Re: Inauguration theology and poetics Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 12:54:49 -0800, George Bowering wro= te: >On Dec 31, 2008, at 10:53 AM, Corey Frost wrote: > >> . Civil discourse means >> listening to differing views, of course, but that doesn't mean one >> has to >> validate a certain view just because a lot of people hold it. > >Would this include the U.S. Constitution >or the election of Obama? >> Yes. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 18:09:03 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: FW: 07/01/09 Parution/Projection des archives Double Change @ Librairie M. Ignazi In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: doublechange@gmail.com To: davidbchirot@hotmail.com Subject: 07/01/09 Parution/Projection des archives Double Change @ Librairi= e M. Ignazi Date: Thu=2C 1 Jan 2009 18:40:19 +0100 Double Change a le plaisir de vous annoncer la parution en janvier 2009 aux Presses du R=E9el dans une =E9dition Motion Method Memo Double Change a le plaisir de vous annoncer la parution en janvier 2009 aux Presses du R=E9el dans une =E9dition Motion Me= thod Memory de :=20 =20 Double Change 1 =97 Archive film=E9e de po=E9sie =97 2004-2005 (9 DVD) =20 Double Change 2 =97 Archive film=E9e de po=E9sie =97 2005-2006 (9 DVD) http://www.doublechange.com/dcblog/?p=3D56 =20 Vous =EAtes cordialement invit=E9s =E0 la projection qui aura lieu en pr=E9sence des auteurs le mercredi 7 janvier 2009 =E0 partir d= e 19 heures =E0 la Librairie Mich=E8le Ignazi=2C 17 rue de Jouy=2C 75004 Paris. =20 =20 Double Change 1 =97 Archive film=E9e de po=E9sie =97 2004-2005=20 9 films r=E9alis=E9s par Meryem Delagarde =C9dit=E9s par Abigail Lang & Dominique Pasqualini =20 Charles Bernstein | Juliette Val=E9ry Jean-Fran=E7ois Bory | Rosmarie Waldrop Rae Armantrout | Philippe Beck C=E9cile Mainardi | Joe Ross | Yannick Liron Jacques Roubaud | Keith Waldrop Norma Cole | Emmanuel Hocquard Cole Swensen Val=E9rie Mr=E9jen | Bill Berkson Walt Whitman Hom(m)age 2005 | 1855 =20 =C9dition bilingue (fran=E7ais / anglais)=2C 9 DVD vid=E9o sous coffret=2C 14 x 12=2C5 cm (cof= fret=2C jaquettes ill. coul.)=2C janvier 2009=2C ISBN : 978-2-84066-299-0=2C EAN : 9782840662990=2C 45 =80. =20 http://www.lespressesdureel.com/ouvrage.php?id=3D1210 =20 =20 Double Change 2 =97 Archive film=E9e de po=E9sie =97 2005-2006 9 films r=E9alis=E9s par Meryem Delagarde =C9dit=E9s par Abigail Lang & Dominique Pasqualini =20 Joseph Mouton | Robert Grenier Oscarine Bosquet | Kristin Prevallet Yves Di Manno | Jerome Rothenberg Jerome Rothenberg Isabelle Garron | Tracy Grinnell Tom Raworth | Pierre Alferi Pierre Fourny | Thalia Field Bernard Heidsieck | Karen Mac Cormack | Steve Mccaffery Kathleen Fraser | Ryoko Sekiguchi =20 =C9dition bilingue (fran=E7ais / anglais)=2C 9 DVD vid=E9o sous coffret=2C 14 x 12=2C5 cm (cof= fret=2C jaquettes ill. coul.)=2C janvier 2009=2C ISBN : 978-2-84066-300-3=2C EAN : 9782840663003=2C 45 =80. =20 http://www.lespressesdureel.com/ouvrage.php?id=3D1209 =20 =20 La prochaine lecture aura lieu le dimanche 25 janvier =E0 La Bellevilloise et accueillera Stephen Rodefer et Eric Such=E8= re. Les d=E9tails seront bient=F4t disponibles en ligne sur le site : www.doublecha= nge.com =20 =20 - BONNE ANNEE A TOUS - Message propuls=E9 par splio Powered by splio Cliquez ici pour vous d=E9sinscrire Click here to unsubscribe _________________________________________________________________ It=92s the same Hotmail=AE. If by =93same=94 you mean up to 70% faster. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_broad= 1_122008= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 09:26:10 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Richard Newman Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Ruth and Amy make important points: That there may be parallels between prostitution and football does not make it invalid to criticize the specific institution, and specifics of the institution, of prostitution; nor does criticizing prostitution invalidate criticisms of football or any other form of labor; nor does the fact that both prostitution and football are labor mean that the precise terms of any particular critique should apply precisely in the same way to both of them. If prostitutes and the work they do were valued and valorized in this culture in the way that football players are, I imagine we would be having a very different conversation about The Poetry Brothel, but we do not value and valorize prostitutes, and while one reason we do not may have to do with a general (generic) squeamishness about sex and what it means to sell sex, another, more pervasive reason, has to do with the misogyny of our culture and how women are situated physically, politically, culturally and socioeconomically by that misogyny--and, need I say it?, the ways in which this misogyny and the institutions it forms and informs serve the needs of men. Why does the idea of the Poetry Slam not elicit critiques of the sort that Ruth brought up about The Poetry Brothel in terms of the commodification of men's bodies, etc. in wrestling smack downs, boxing or other violent sports? Well, one reason is that those sports do not, ultimately, devalue men; they may put men's bodies at great risk, but they actually enhance the status of the men who participate in them *as* men; prostitution also puts women's bodies at great risk, but rather than enhance prostitutes' status *as* women, it merely cements the status of the women who are prostitutes as second-class, dirty, or whatever appropriate adjective you wish to apply. This does not mean that we ought not to critique the Poetry Slam and the sports for which it is a literary performance metaphor from a masculine-gendered perspective, but even then the terms of the critique will be different because men and women are positioned differently in terms of our genders. To try to level everything off by equating the ways in which men are violence-objects in our culture to the ways in which women are sexual-objects, and by suggesting that the consequences of that objectification ought also be seen as equal (which means, essentially, interchangeable) is to deny, ignore and therefore perpetuate the reality of male dominance in the lives of both men and women. I have not been to The Poetry Brothel, but it seems to me, at least conceptually, to be brilliant satire, something along the lines of Woody Allen's The Whores of Mensa. I do wonder about the difference between writing this kind of satire and performing it, especially when the performance takes place regularly and someone is making (however little) money; but that, too, seems to me what good satire is supposed to do: call into question where we draw our lines by crossing them in ways that some will find offensive and others will find, well, satirical. Richard On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 5:43 PM, Ruth Lepson wrote: > > sick of men saying it's puritan moralizing to criticize prostitution. > whether it shd be legal or not is a complicated question. but I make no > judgment about prostitutes. if anything, I wish the world could hold them in > its arms in a loving way to counteract all they suffer. > > > On 12/31/08 4:33 PM, "Adam Tobin" wrote: > > > > > Here's an interesting article, for those who are interested, about a more > > useful approach to bettering the terrible conditions of brothels: forming a > > prostitutes' union. > > http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=the-prostitutes-union > > > > I think as long as every mention of prostitution brings up just so much > > puritan moralizing, pimps and their bosses will continue to operate with > > impunity, out of the sight of polite society. Meanwhile police continue to > > fine and jail the women, in order to keep them out of sight of the neighbors > > whose real estate values they would otherwise > > lower.tp://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > ================================== > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & > > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html -- Richard Jeffrey Newman Associate Professor, English Coordinator, Creative Writing Nassau Community College Garden City, NY 11530 http://faculty.ncc.edu/newmanr O: (516) 572-7612 F: (516) 572-8134 -- Literary Arts Director Persian Arts Festival www.persianartsfestival.org richard@persianartsfestival.org -- www.richardjnewman.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 10:34:10 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David Kirschenbaum Subject: The Portable Boog Reader 3 Online PDF Now Available MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Please forward ---------------- Hi all, Jim Behrle, Joanna Fuhrman, Brenda Iijima, Paolo Javier, Mark =20 Lamoureux, and I have gathered work from 72 New York City poets. The =20 Portable Boog Reader 3, An Anthology of New York City Poetry debuted =20 yesterday at the Poetry Project=92s and Bowery Poetry Club=92s annual = New =20 Year=92s Day marathons. It iwill be available at our drop spots =20 throughout the East Village and other parts of lower Manhattan, and =20 Greenpoint and Williamsburg, Brooklyn as of this Sunday. And right now the online pdf is available at: http://welcometoboogcity.com/boogpdfs/bc53.pbr3.pdf We=92re all very happy to share this great work and to have an anthology = =20 available to so many people for free. The 72 contributors are: Ammiel Alcalay * Betsy Andrews * Ari Banias * Jennifer Bartlett * =20 Martine Bellen Edmund Berrigan * Kate Broad * Julian Brolaski * Donna Brook Sommer Browning * Matthew Burgess * David Cameron * Mike Coffey Jen Coleman * John Coletti * Matt Cozart * Elaine Equi * Jessica Fiorini Jennifer Firestone * Ed Friedman * Ethan Fugate * Rigoberto Gonz=E1lez Nada Gordon * Stephanie Gray * Shafer Hall * Diana Hamilton * Hayley =20 Heaton Cathy Park Hong * Vanessa Hope * Dan Hoy * Lauren Ireland * Adeena =20 Karasick Basil King * Martha King * Noelle Kocot-Tomblin * Dorothea Lasky * =20 Jeff Laughlin Amy Lawless * Walter K. Lew * Tan Lin * Tao Lin * Filip Marinovich * =20 Justin Marks Chris Martin * Tracey McTague * Stephen Paul Miller * Feliz L. Molina Ryan Murphy * Elinor Nauen * Uche Nduka * Urayo=E1n Noel * Akilah Oliver Geoffrey Olsen * Jean-Paul Pecqueur * Greg Purcell * Elizabeth Reddin Jerome Sala * Tom Savage * David Sewell * David Shapiro Kimberly Ann Southwick * Eleni Stecopoulos * Christina Strong * =20 Mathias Svalina Jeremy James Thompson * Susie Timmons * Rodrigo Toscano * Nicole Wallace Damian Weber * Max Winter * Sara Wintz * Erica Wright To view last year's anthology: http://welcometoboogcity.com/boogpdfs/bc47.pdf Happy New Year. as ever, David ----- Please patronize our advertisers: Bowery Poetry Club * http://www.bowerypoetry.com Building Long Island * http://www.buildinglongisland.com/ Farfalla Press * http://www.farfallapress.blogspot.com/ Litmus Press/Aufgabe * http://www.litmuspress.org/ Zinc Bar Talk/Reading Series =95 http://www.lungfull.org/zinc/index.html ----- Advertising or donation inquiries can be directed to editor@boogcity.com or by calling 212-842-BOOG (2664) ----- Thanks to our copy editor Joe Bates, guest proofreader Estelle =20 Kirschenbaum, and Sommer Browning for the stellar cover art ------ 2,750 copies of Boog City are distributed among, and available for =20 free at, the following locations: MANHATTAN *THE EAST VILLAGE* Acme Underground Anthology Film Archives Bluestockings Bowery Poetry Club Caf=E9 Pick Me Up Cake Shop Lakeside Lounge Life Caf=E9 Living Room Mission Caf=E9 Nuyorican Poets Caf=E9 Other Music Pianos St. Mark's Books St. Mark's Church Shakespeare & Co. Sidewalk Caf=E9 Sunshine Theater Trash and Vaudeville Two Boots Video *OTHER PARTS OF MANHATTAN* Angelika Film Center and Caf=E9 Hotel Chelsea Mercer Street Books Poets House BROOKLYN *WILLIAMSBURG* Bliss Caf=E9 Galapagos Sideshow Gallery Spoonbill & Sugartown Supercore Caf=E9 *GREENPOINT* Champion Coffee East Coast Aliens Greenpoint Coffee House Permanent Records Photoplay Video & DVD Thai Cafe P.P.S. And read every Boog City back issue, all 53, now online: from 1 http://welcometoboogcity.com/boogpdfs/bc01.pdf to 53 http://welcometoboogcity.com/boogpdfs/bc53.pbr3.pdf just change the issue number in the url from 01 on through to 53 --=20 David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W. 28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://welcometoboogcity.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 07:47:43 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Eireene Nealand Subject: Re: capitalism and the long poem In-Reply-To: <83431.86285.qm@web46201.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline This is a good point. I don't think that I'm trying to say that the repetition itself is so bad, it's more that it's a marker of trauma, or in Golynko's case a marker of an existential emptiness that we can't seem to move beyond (not that moving beyond has to be a goal in a sense of throwing out some bad thing, but maybe more in the sense of seeing what all of our litle spores of culture are growing out of). When we think about the (supposedly) thousand-three-hundred-eighty-two Eskimo words for snow, and our own five-thousand-fifty-two words for marijuana (i am totally making these numbers up) the function is so diferent. The marijuana words aren't trying to distinguish between anything, they have to keep moving around so that in a quite physical sense they won't get "caught." (& well, of course it is not they who will get caught, but us.) and maybe instead of running and running to would be good to do something about that big boot that is squashing us into emptiness. Well, now I *am* making value judgements. It's not that I want to get god back or do away with emptiness, but it's good to notice that it is there and how we are working through it. Maybe the emptiness can get some names too? e On 12/31/08, Troy Camplin wrote: > Now, repetition is very ancient, and is traceable to rituals of all sorts. It thus has a deep connection to religion. I'm of the opinion that repetitious arts and rituals helped our ancestors to see the patterns in nature better, making them better at noticing the subtle changes in the rhythms of nature, making them better hunters and gatherers, and be better at not being prey to predators. Repetition also has the effect of altering brain states too, though, so the result is religious experiences, mass hypnosis, etc. When decoupled from its religious and artistic origins, we repetitious buying, etc. that forms the core of many people's critique of capitalism. It seems to me, though, that the same people who make this critique then assume that all repetition is bad (many in the Marxist camp also are anti-religion, so wish to do away with that form of repetition as well), and the baby is thrown out with the bath water -- making people in fact even more > prone to consumerist influences. There's pretty good evidence that people need repetition. With the anti-repetition mentality in some in the arts and humanities, these problems are only exacerbated. Removal of repetition from life and art dehumanizes both. > > > Troy Camplin > > > > ________________________________ > From: Eireene Nealand > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:30:39 PM > Subject: Re: capitalism and the long poem > > > Yes, I think that this is the part that I was worrying about: > > As DBChirot says: > Serial production functions not unlike a model of addiction--once hooked, one > HAS to keep coming back for MORE MORE MORE--which is at once the > "same" and slightly different, just enough so, that the sense of > being both satisfied that "the stuff is good" and at the same time > give an extra "plug" in that one enjoys it for only so long and then > has to be in the throes craving until the next fix can be obtained. > > So there's a sort of repetition thing going on (I don't really follow > this Freud stuff very well, but someone explained the > Lacan/consumerism problem as similar, as Troy alludes to, one in > postmodernism's problems of self: both stemming from an inherent > emptiness--there is no self there at the center--so we keep trying to > fill the lack or hole with one commodity or otherwise sexy thing after > another. > > It' not always the same thing, but there's a repetitive structure to > the act of filling the hole--(okay this may not look like the long > poems at all)--and maybe Lacan, being a structuralist (?), would say > that that the motion of filling forms some sort of updatable subject? > > well, now I am lost again. > > I want to get to this part where Catherine Daly is where there's a > possibility of woven funcitons but I'm not sure how to get from one to > the other. > > What's the source of all of that talk about the usable past? and > available nerve endings and tissues, by the way. I feel like I must > have somehow missed some whole big discussion here. > > e > > > > > > On 12/30/08, Troy Camplin wrote: > > I think we've become obsessed with it precisely because it's fallen out of favor. Somebody, or a few people, wondered where it went, and began writing about it. It seems to me that the long poem became impossible with the abandonment of narrative by poets. How long can one keep up a feeling or a mood or an "experiment"? Frederick Fierstein writes quite long poems, but his poems also have narratives holding them together. Frederick Turner has written two epic poems. > > > > Troy Camplin > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Eireene Nealand > > > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > > > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 1:45:57 PM > > > > Subject: capitalism and the long poem > > > > > > I sat down to write a little piece about this Russian poet, and came > > up with a strange take on the long poem--an idea that the seriality of > > it is somehow related to consumer capitalism-- > > > > http://tsky-reviews.blogspot.com/ > > > > not the pleasantest thought-- > > > > and so I was wondering if anyone has any good counter arguments, or > > different takes on why so many are so obsessed with this form right > > now. & will we fall out of love with it during the recession? > > > > e > > > > > > ================================== > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > ================================== > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 10:46:18 -0800 Reply-To: poet_in_hell@yahoo.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve russell Subject: Re: capitalism and the long poem In-Reply-To: <88210.49477.qm@web46214.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable maybe heroic, epic poems died with the advent of capitalism, or modernity.= =20 --- On Wed, 12/31/08, Troy Camplin wrote: From: Troy Camplin Subject: Re: capitalism and the long poem To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Wednesday, December 31, 2008, 5:31 PM There's a lot of interesting stuff here, but one does wonder how one fits pre-capitalist societies into this. The epic poem all but dies off with the advent of the Modern Era and capitalism. How does one fit the idea of line production in fact being LOST with the advent of capitalist society? Homer, Sophocles, Aeschylus, Euripides, Virgil, et al were well-known authors, all pre-capitalist. Certainly your points about serialization and novel product= ion with Balzac are quite interesting and true, but your thesis almost treats literary production as having arisen with capitalism. How does one fit the = rest of world literary history into your model? Troy Camplin ________________________________ From: David-Baptiste Chirot To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 12:46:12 PM Subject: Re: capitalism and the long poem Dear Eireene-- Thank you so much for this excellent piece and the question you pose. Seriality in writing as a deliberate form is directly an effect of Captialsim--in that serials such as the Feuilletons of Eugene Sue and the serial manner of publishing Dickens' novels, became one of the few ways that an author could make money directly from writing--and also it was used as a wa= y to get people to keep buying the newspaper or journal in which the serial appeared. Seriality of this kind is constructed round the desire to "want to know what happens next" and is accompanied by the acceptance by the reader that one "will pay any price to find out how the cliff hanger was resolved--and what happens next until the next cliff hanger is reached=97= =93 An author often could make more money from selling a serial than having a b= ook appear "all at once," due to the lack of copyright for American writers who were pirated outrageously by British publishes, and the lack of copy right in many other countries also. A writer like Dostoyevsky who had gambling debts would crank out serials to= pay off creditors, a vast improvement actually on the strategies open to=20 Balzac, who often wrote six books at a time, for several different publishers, not having yet the serial at his disposal. =20 (Hence the often strange effect in many of Balzac=92s works, that a book begun at one point in time, interrupted to complete two others = more pressing, then returned to=97the writer would suddenly decide that a differ= ent character should step into the spotlight from its previous position vaguely= in the background at the edge of the wings and faded old curtains--, and in stepping forward, suddenly alter almost entirely the direction of the narra= tive and the meaning of the moral Balzac was presenting as another in his =93philosophies des moeux=94 in the structure of the Comedie Humaine A structure whose descriptions and analyses Karl Marx found to be the greatest and most perceptive study ever made of Capitalism in all= its function and effects--- Seriality was continued in the early "Motion Pictures" with the famous feuilletons of Louis Feuillade so beloved of the Surrealist--"Judex" "Les Vampyrs" and etc--and in the US the endless series of "Adventures of Pauline' and her constellations of spin offs--tied to the rail road tracks as the train approaches--and escapi= ng miraculously--only to have another misadventure seize hold of her before th= e reel runs out--and the lettering on the black screen says--"Wait Until Next Week to Find Out What---" Serial production functions not unlike a model of addiction--once hooked, o= ne HAS to keep coming back for MORE MORE MORE--which is at once the "same" and slightly different, just enough so, that the sense of being both satisfied that "the stuff is good" and at the same time give an extra "plug" in that one enjoys it for only so long and then has to be in the throes craving until the next fix can be obtained. Soap operas came about for the same reason--to keep the customer coming bac= k in order to have the familiar fix and also to experience the titillation of th= e seductive "wait for next time and I'll be there--just waiting for YOU--" "Soap" opera referring to be sure to the selling of laundry soaps that paid for the serial production of these "Opere"--so that both the "serial" and the product become inseparably associated and one finds oneself suddenly craving--soap!!=20 Actually Language Poetry's assertions about grammar being an expression of, structured by, Captialsim, is a fallacy, in terms of linguistics, and is instead a kind of "soap" that sponsors the reader's having a new "mode of production" i.e. "a new line"--to develop an addiction to--'what will be the next book from language writers?--what will be the next exciting daring thing they do in their hair raising battle with capitalism"--in other words, a fallacious "anti-capitalist" production is marketed as just that--hey!! Buy us!! We are anti-capitalism=92s structuring of grammar!! We are liberating you!!--From what? =96 From buying one form of poetry one is freed to buy another. Nothing has changed but the "exterior appearance" of the product. Inside it is the same old thing--production, product, authors, canons, sub divisions of categories of styles, rhetorical devices and =93morphemic transgressions=94 replete with torque and the tensile strengths of the requisite number of =93allowances for the reader=92s constructions of their own meanings=94-- and all of these cramm= ed within the new models so that one might choose still somehow between a convertible or a coupe, or perhaps simply a two door or a four door--- And what colors would you like these to come in?--With or with out ash tray= s, CD player--radio?--No smoking?=97OK=97we=92ll make a note of that=97no lighter=97either-- Oh!! Did someone mention Hybrids--??!! How marvelous!!--What a pun, mon vieux=97do you mean automobiles or genres--?=97or perhaps some fantastical = life form=97out of Lewis Carroll or Borges=97 A used car dealer, a used poem dealer . . . .or perhaps in these days of tightened belts=97the two combined and displaying their wares= on the same much contracted =93lot=94 whose fading banners may well not be seen by the dawn=92s early light=97other than as limp remna= nts of plastic curling and scuttering across the tarmacs in the gusts of an ill wind blowing no good=97 Yes=97from the assembly line to the poetic line=97 Is a very fine line indeed=97 And so one can replace the unemployed=92s former jobs on the assembly line With jobs on the poetic line=97 Hard at work creating serial production again-- The serial is created to "provoke and sustain interest through time--" And indeed one might think of this interest as a paying of interest in that instead of one product in full paid for al at once, one is paying for the product stretched out through time, and so pays more for each "section" in the serial, bringing the total cost of the completed series to quite a bi more than if one had simply been able to purchase the whole thing inside one cover. But then--one would have been deprived of the thrill and the touch of each new issue each new episode arriving in the stores or in the mails or on line or video--awaiting with that craving so deliciously satisfied by the insertion into the human system of the capital= ist addiction system--and then, as the pleasure is moving through out one in a sensuous erotic glow--suddenly one is cut off-and told to wait until next time-- And there one is, "Waiting for the Man, 26 dollars in your hand/he's never early, always late/the first thing you learn/is you just got to wait." And so there were and may still be--long lines queuing up on the days that = the "Man" is coming --shivering and shaking in the junk sick streets until at the last moment of unendurable waiting, when al are cursing the "Man" who is subjection them to this suffering--at this last moment when al are ready to forever consign this Monster to the dustbins of their crashed hopes and illusions--here he or she is!! And like salivating dogs t= hey al rush to lick her (or his) feet and rub against his (or her) legs and practically shit themselves in delight--w= ith outpourings of love finally getting their greedy paws on the serial's new installment, and putting down al their hard saved coins and bills for this immediate satisfying of the unbearable cravings building up-- How many times does one not find someone writing of having to satisfy their poetry fix with a quick rush to a book store and their tear off their coats= , yank up their sleeves, wrap the nearest belt or cord around their scrawny a= rm and inject three or four chapbooks--and with great and sudden euphoria--plu= nk down whatever price they are told these precious "rocks" are jacked up to this week-- Who hasn=92t seen lurking near the bookstores and poetry dens the sinister figure of the Reviewer loaded with the latest galleys and review copies of release= s, wiling to sell them cheaper than the store--or forego the cash as long as t= he figure is paid for in some kind of trade--for sex perhaps, or say season ti= cket to the opera or bal game or perhaps simply the inside scoop on some trading= tip on good old Wall Street--or a tip on the races-- A different method of composition was advocated by Edgar Allan Poe, who, in= his "Principles of Poetry" and "Philospsophy of Composition" formulated one of the msot influential approaches to this day for the production of poems and , to be sure--short stories. This is to create works whcih, given the speeding up oflife and magazine prodcution, can be read in one sitting, because, argues Poe, only in having the entire poem or story all a= t once, is one experiencing the full power of the Effect. For Poe, --and this is also an argument against the "Inspiration=94 of Romanticism--a poem is constructed deliberately, almost mathematically as well as musically--by choosing first the effect to be experienced by the reader, and working "backwards," determining the elements and their arrangements with in the structure which is determined by the length of time as measured in numb= ers of words. =20 Where the serial exploits the drawing out of time, as a never quite consumm= ated series of piquing of desire--the work as advocated by Poe--delivers an Effe= ct so great that is far more satisfying than the long drawn-out "sickness" of serial addiction, with its attendant ever demanding layouts of cash-- The short story, the short poem--for Poe these offer a much more interestin= g field for the investigations of questions of composition--because they prov= ide CONSTRAINTS--which provoke rather than limit discoveries--because "Necessity the Motherfucker of Invention" is a goad to the imagination completely at odds with its dispersal as in a serial--in which = the poet or writer has far more TIME to dream up what happens next-- Poe's theories of Composition, traced via Baudelaire and his invention of the short prose poem--and the theory of Correspondances--is at the basis of Fre= nch Symbolism as it culminates in Mallarme--a good friend of his Tuesdays atten= dee Felix Feneon, who, combining his anarchist ideas with those of the "creation of the effect"--much as Mallarme noted that Feneon's words were "detonators" as much as the bombs he advocated and may have thrown himself--comes up with the turning of his hack job writing "Faits Divers" for the mass circulation Le Matin into the writing simultaneously of news (Nouvelles) and "short stories" (nouvelles), which become known when published posthumously as his "Nouvelles en trois lignes"--News Stories/Short Stories in three lines. Like Poe, who published his works in newspapers and large circulation journals, Feneon is melding "news of the day=94 in its documentary "detective story" aspect with its fictional "Balloon Hoax" (published in a newspaper to emulate one that had been taken as truth) and "Purloined Letter," "Ms in a Bottle" aspects.=20 Since the short story and short poem, the "Faits Divers" hack filler turned into a short story/documented event do not create the dependence the "fort-da" psychology of Captilist Need and Desire, these short, effect driven works subvert in a strange way the more "profitable" serials in that they offer the "most bang for the buck'--as it were, rather than endlessly teasing out the most bucks for an ever differed bang = as does the serial. This "bang" effect is literally "realized, if one is willing to think of this way--in the naming of the NFL Baltimore Ravens for Poe's poem. The Ravens, a hard hitting team led by a Super bowl MVP Ray Lewis who has b= een charged in the past with connection to a homicide--play with indeed the mos= t bang delivered for the buck--producing some "shocking" effects and like Poe producing a "mystery story to be investigated by detectives." One of the reasons for Poe's development of his theories was not surprisingly, economic. In Poe=92s time American writers had no copyright protection, so the one surest way to "get the most out" of a piece of writing was to have it produce its effect al at once, before it was pirated. "The Raven," for example, was pirated thousands of times--it was a "Platinum Selling Hit" for its times--yet Poe was paid only once, and that, for him, a not too miserly fee of a few dollars. was al he ever recei= ved. In the 1890=92s, Henry James was faced with the example of Poe, a writer who in the past he had been dismissive of. After the fabulou= s failures of his dramatic pieces on the stage, James found himself in need of money to keep himself and his beloved Lamb House afloat. (His neighbors there were to become Stephen Cran= e, Joseph Conrad and H. G. Wells.) James decided at first one the old famialar standby=97the writing of a serial=97which proved to be =93The Turn of the Screw.=94 As he worked to find a way to keep on creating an Effect on which each episode would end so= as to keep the suspense hanging and make the reader desire intensely to purcha= se the nest episodes as they appeared=97James began reconsidering Poe=92s theo= ry of the Effect. From the creation of a ghost story serial, James began to turn to the creation of short stories which, l= ike Poe=92s are created with the final effect in mind.=20 (While dictating aloud to his red haired Scottish typist =93The Turn of the Screw,=94 James discovered himself building in each epis= ode to the proper cliff hanging effect=97only to see not =93an effect=94 produced = on the typist, but rather his poker faced question as he paused with fingers in mi= d air to type the next words=97=93And then?=94 This may have contributed a bi= t towards James=92 deciding he would prefer to produce the Effect in toto in a short story=97just to see what if any Effect it had on the seemingly unimpression= able red haired typist.) Another interesting example is Roberto Bolano, who turned from writing poetry to producing short stories after his marriage and with = a child on the way. Bolano, like many other writers who have used this material of the short story competition for shor= t stories in themselves, discovered that in Spain a great many towns and smal= l cities offered prizes for best short story on such and such a theme, place = or person of the immediate region.=20 Competing for prizes helped Bolano develop his skills at producing Effects that would =93outshine=94 those of his opponents. From the short stories he moved to the novella form, and he became aware his life was rapidly getting shorter and shorter, and that the best way to leave a profitable legacy for his family was to compose novels=97and ever bigger ones!=97Bolano devoted himself literally feverishly to the production of as man words as possible, in order to earn the most money posthumously f= or his widow and small son. The connection between Captialsim and writing is NOT grammar, but WORD COUNT=97page length=97and, hopefully for the writer and publisher both, NAME RECONITION=97by which a much slighter prodcution can be marketed= if the author=92s name, rather than the bulk, merits the raising of the price = no matter how short a work may be. In one of his essays the Italian Futurist (an ex-Symbolist whose Futurism is littered with many of the most hackneyed of Symbolist ima= ges and techniques), considered that literature and poetry could be assigned va= lues based on a system of weights and measures, including that of measuring and weighing =93quality=94=97which is not unrelated is it not to=94 Name Recognition=94 as a =93guarantee=94 of at least a certain level of quality being available to t= he reader. This is another of the paradoxes of the hack work of Feneon=92s Faits Divers=97that in an anonymous poorly paid and very low-regarded form, he would decide to go about producing work of the highest quality, wh= ile getting absolutely no credit for it =93in name=94 nor being rewarded for hi= s extra efforts by any increase in the minimal pay. And so it is only a century later that Feneon=92s Faits Divers aka Nouvelles en trois lignes appear in English, in a translation of most o= f the pieces. (The translation unfortunately uses the word =93novels=92 for nouvelles=97which disappears the punning of =93short news items, news briefs=94 and short stories. Instead there is a making muc= h by reveiewers of the pieces being =93novels=94 which contradicts the entire meaning of the pun. It also makes impossible the contemporary punning of =93news flashes=94 with today=92s =93flash fictions.=94) Flaubert, after all, had already accomplished the turning=20 Several decades earlier of a provincial journal=92s Faits Divers into the novel Madame Bova= ry:=20 =93Delphine Delamare, 27, wife of a medical officer in Ry, displayed insufficient austerity. Worse, she ran up debts. To avoid paying them, she took poison.= =94 But then, despite the Figure of the Dead Author which strides so stridently about among the assertions of Authors who grow plump = with the fees their Name Recognition brings as they Bang the Drum Slowly=97perha= ps SLOWLY NOT AS A DIRGE BUT AS A VERY VERY VERY LONG DRAWN OUT SERIAL=97OR-- = EVEN BETTER-- A DECADE ADTER DECADE ONGOING SOAP OPERA =96 What writer of today would anonymously take on hack work of the slightest kind FOR THE LOWEST PAY and work on creating of each item a s= hort story beautifully composed via the elements of structure known as syntax, w= ord choice and the obligatory listing of information such as who what when why where- And a few years later basically stop writing altogether other than letters to friends and business associates=97for it was Feneon= =92s =93aspiration to silence=94=97his works were constructed to attain=97 In effect, a writer who combines Bartleby=92s =93I prefer not to=94 with Rimbaud=92s leaving of writing for work in a business establishm= ent. (In Feneon=92s case, a well- known Parisian art gallery turning his no longer b= eing France=92s best art critic since Baudelaire to use in selling the wares he once wrote = of.) See also:=20 Feneon's Faits Divers and Poe's Principles of Poetryhttp://cronacasouversivafeneon.blogspot.com/2008/12/feneons-poe-tic-g= hosthumously-anonymous.html FELIX FENEON AS CONCEPTUAL POET=20 http://cronacasouversivafeneon.blogspot.com/2008/12/felix-feneon-as-concept= ual-poet.html > Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 11:45:57 -0800 > From: eireene@GMAIL.COM > Subject: capitalism and the long poem > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >=20 > I sat down to write a little piece about this Russian poet, and came > up with a strange take on the long poem--an idea that the Seriality of > it is somehow related to consumer capitalism-- >=20 > http://tsky-reviews.blogspot.com/ >=20 > not the pleasantest thought-- >=20 > and so I was wondering if anyone has any good counter arguments, or > different takes on why so many are so obsessed with this form right > now. & will we fall out of love with it during the recession? >=20 > e >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc..buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html _________________________________________________________________ It=92s the same Hotmail=AE. If by =93same=94 you mean up to 70% faster. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_broad= 1_122008 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 11:54:35 -0800 Reply-To: poet_in_hell@yahoo.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve russell Subject: Re: capitalism and the long poem In-Reply-To: <88210.49477.qm@web46214.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Perhaps the soap opera is post history: the viewer, the addict, must tune i= nto episode after dopey episode, never fully satisfied, always groping for = some finale, a resolution, a hopeful high ... poor guy, semi-literate, post= McClued-in- tuned-in-or-out-to-what... --- On Wed, 12/31/08, Troy Camplin wrote: From: Troy Camplin Subject: Re: capitalism and the long poem To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Wednesday, December 31, 2008, 5:31 PM There's a lot of interesting stuff here, but one does wonder how one fits pre-capitalist societies into this. The epic poem all but dies off with the advent of the Modern Era and capitalism. How does one fit the idea of line production in fact being LOST with the advent of capitalist society? Homer, Sophocles, Aeschylus, Euripides, Virgil, et al were well-known authors, all pre-capitalist. Certainly your points about serialization and novel product= ion with Balzac are quite interesting and true, but your thesis almost treats literary production as having arisen with capitalism. How does one fit the = rest of world literary history into your model? Troy Camplin ________________________________ From: David-Baptiste Chirot To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 12:46:12 PM Subject: Re: capitalism and the long poem Dear Eireene-- Thank you so much for this excellent piece and the question you pose. Seriality in writing as a deliberate form is directly an effect of Captialsim--in that serials such as the Feuilletons of Eugene Sue and the serial manner of publishing Dickens' novels, became one of the few ways that an author could make money directly from writing--and also it was used as a wa= y to get people to keep buying the newspaper or journal in which the serial appeared. Seriality of this kind is constructed round the desire to "want to know what happens next" and is accompanied by the acceptance by the reader that one "will pay any price to find out how the cliff hanger was resolved--and what happens next until the next cliff hanger is reached=97= =93 An author often could make more money from selling a serial than having a b= ook appear "all at once," due to the lack of copyright for American writers who were pirated outrageously by British publishes, and the lack of copy right in many other countries also. A writer like Dostoyevsky who had gambling debts would crank out serials to= pay off creditors, a vast improvement actually on the strategies open to=20 Balzac, who often wrote six books at a time, for several different publishers, not having yet the serial at his disposal. =20 (Hence the often strange effect in many of Balzac=92s works, that a book begun at one point in time, interrupted to complete two others = more pressing, then returned to=97the writer would suddenly decide that a differ= ent character should step into the spotlight from its previous position vaguely= in the background at the edge of the wings and faded old curtains--, and in stepping forward, suddenly alter almost entirely the direction of the narra= tive and the meaning of the moral Balzac was presenting as another in his =93philosophies des moeux=94 in the structure of the Comedie Humaine A structure whose descriptions and analyses Karl Marx found to be the greatest and most perceptive study ever made of Capitalism in all= its function and effects--- Seriality was continued in the early "Motion Pictures" with the famous feuilletons of Louis Feuillade so beloved of the Surrealist--"Judex" "Les Vampyrs" and etc--and in the US the endless series of "Adventures of Pauline' and her constellations of spin offs--tied to the rail road tracks as the train approaches--and escapi= ng miraculously--only to have another misadventure seize hold of her before th= e reel runs out--and the lettering on the black screen says--"Wait Until Next Week to Find Out What---" Serial production functions not unlike a model of addiction--once hooked, o= ne HAS to keep coming back for MORE MORE MORE--which is at once the "same" and slightly different, just enough so, that the sense of being both satisfied that "the stuff is good" and at the same time give an extra "plug" in that one enjoys it for only so long and then has to be in the throes craving until the next fix can be obtained. Soap operas came about for the same reason--to keep the customer coming bac= k in order to have the familiar fix and also to experience the titillation of th= e seductive "wait for next time and I'll be there--just waiting for YOU--" "Soap" opera referring to be sure to the selling of laundry soaps that paid for the serial production of these "Opere"--so that both the "serial" and the product become inseparably associated and one finds oneself suddenly craving--soap!!=20 Actually Language Poetry's assertions about grammar being an expression of, structured by, Captialsim, is a fallacy, in terms of linguistics, and is instead a kind of "soap" that sponsors the reader's having a new "mode of production" i.e. "a new line"--to develop an addiction to--'what will be the next book from language writers?--what will be the next exciting daring thing they do in their hair raising battle with capitalism"--in other words, a fallacious "anti-capitalist" production is marketed as just that--hey!! Buy us!! We are anti-capitalism=92s structuring of grammar!! We are liberating you!!--From what? =96 From buying one form of poetry one is freed to buy another. Nothing has changed but the "exterior appearance" of the product. Inside it is the same old thing--production, product, authors, canons, sub divisions of categories of styles, rhetorical devices and =93morphemic transgressions=94 replete with torque and the tensile strengths of the requisite number of =93allowances for the reader=92s constructions of their own meanings=94-- and all of these cramm= ed within the new models so that one might choose still somehow between a convertible or a coupe, or perhaps simply a two door or a four door--- And what colors would you like these to come in?--With or with out ash tray= s, CD player--radio?--No smoking?=97OK=97we=92ll make a note of that=97no lighter=97either-- Oh!! Did someone mention Hybrids--??!! How marvelous!!--What a pun, mon vieux=97do you mean automobiles or genres--?=97or perhaps some fantastical = life form=97out of Lewis Carroll or Borges=97 A used car dealer, a used poem dealer . . . .or perhaps in these days of tightened belts=97the two combined and displaying their wares= on the same much contracted =93lot=94 whose fading banners may well not be seen by the dawn=92s early light=97other than as limp remna= nts of plastic curling and scuttering across the tarmacs in the gusts of an ill wind blowing no good=97 Yes=97from the assembly line to the poetic line=97 Is a very fine line indeed=97 And so one can replace the unemployed=92s former jobs on the assembly line With jobs on the poetic line=97 Hard at work creating serial production again-- The serial is created to "provoke and sustain interest through time--" And indeed one might think of this interest as a paying of interest in that instead of one product in full paid for al at once, one is paying for the product stretched out through time, and so pays more for each "section" in the serial, bringing the total cost of the completed series to quite a bi more than if one had simply been able to purchase the whole thing inside one cover. But then--one would have been deprived of the thrill and the touch of each new issue each new episode arriving in the stores or in the mails or on line or video--awaiting with that craving so deliciously satisfied by the insertion into the human system of the capital= ist addiction system--and then, as the pleasure is moving through out one in a sensuous erotic glow--suddenly one is cut off-and told to wait until next time-- And there one is, "Waiting for the Man, 26 dollars in your hand/he's never early, always late/the first thing you learn/is you just got to wait." And so there were and may still be--long lines queuing up on the days that = the "Man" is coming --shivering and shaking in the junk sick streets until at the last moment of unendurable waiting, when al are cursing the "Man" who is subjection them to this suffering--at this last moment when al are ready to forever consign this Monster to the dustbins of their crashed hopes and illusions--here he or she is!! And like salivating dogs t= hey al rush to lick her (or his) feet and rub against his (or her) legs and practically shit themselves in delight--w= ith outpourings of love finally getting their greedy paws on the serial's new installment, and putting down al their hard saved coins and bills for this immediate satisfying of the unbearable cravings building up-- How many times does one not find someone writing of having to satisfy their poetry fix with a quick rush to a book store and their tear off their coats= , yank up their sleeves, wrap the nearest belt or cord around their scrawny a= rm and inject three or four chapbooks--and with great and sudden euphoria--plu= nk down whatever price they are told these precious "rocks" are jacked up to this week-- Who hasn=92t seen lurking near the bookstores and poetry dens the sinister figure of the Reviewer loaded with the latest galleys and review copies of release= s, wiling to sell them cheaper than the store--or forego the cash as long as t= he figure is paid for in some kind of trade--for sex perhaps, or say season ti= cket to the opera or bal game or perhaps simply the inside scoop on some trading= tip on good old Wall Street--or a tip on the races-- A different method of composition was advocated by Edgar Allan Poe, who, in= his "Principles of Poetry" and "Philospsophy of Composition" formulated one of the msot influential approaches to this day for the production of poems and , to be sure--short stories. This is to create works whcih, given the speeding up oflife and magazine prodcution, can be read in one sitting, because, argues Poe, only in having the entire poem or story all a= t once, is one experiencing the full power of the Effect. For Poe, --and this is also an argument against the "Inspiration=94 of Romanticism--a poem is constructed deliberately, almost mathematically as well as musically--by choosing first the effect to be experienced by the reader, and working "backwards," determining the elements and their arrangements with in the structure which is determined by the length of time as measured in numb= ers of words. =20 Where the serial exploits the drawing out of time, as a never quite consumm= ated series of piquing of desire--the work as advocated by Poe--delivers an Effe= ct so great that is far more satisfying than the long drawn-out "sickness" of serial addiction, with its attendant ever demanding layouts of cash-- The short story, the short poem--for Poe these offer a much more interestin= g field for the investigations of questions of composition--because they prov= ide CONSTRAINTS--which provoke rather than limit discoveries--because "Necessity the Motherfucker of Invention" is a goad to the imagination completely at odds with its dispersal as in a serial--in which = the poet or writer has far more TIME to dream up what happens next-- Poe's theories of Composition, traced via Baudelaire and his invention of the short prose poem--and the theory of Correspondances--is at the basis of Fre= nch Symbolism as it culminates in Mallarme--a good friend of his Tuesdays atten= dee Felix Feneon, who, combining his anarchist ideas with those of the "creation of the effect"--much as Mallarme noted that Feneon's words were "detonators" as much as the bombs he advocated and may have thrown himself--comes up with the turning of his hack job writing "Faits Divers" for the mass circulation Le Matin into the writing simultaneously of news (Nouvelles) and "short stories" (nouvelles), which become known when published posthumously as his "Nouvelles en trois lignes"--News Stories/Short Stories in three lines. Like Poe, who published his works in newspapers and large circulation journals, Feneon is melding "news of the day=94 in its documentary "detective story" aspect with its fictional "Balloon Hoax" (published in a newspaper to emulate one that had been taken as truth) and "Purloined Letter," "Ms in a Bottle" aspects.=20 Since the short story and short poem, the "Faits Divers" hack filler turned into a short story/documented event do not create the dependence the "fort-da" psychology of Captilist Need and Desire, these short, effect driven works subvert in a strange way the more "profitable" serials in that they offer the "most bang for the buck'--as it were, rather than endlessly teasing out the most bucks for an ever differed bang = as does the serial. This "bang" effect is literally "realized, if one is willing to think of this way--in the naming of the NFL Baltimore Ravens for Poe's poem. The Ravens, a hard hitting team led by a Super bowl MVP Ray Lewis who has b= een charged in the past with connection to a homicide--play with indeed the mos= t bang delivered for the buck--producing some "shocking" effects and like Poe producing a "mystery story to be investigated by detectives." One of the reasons for Poe's development of his theories was not surprisingly, economic. In Poe=92s time American writers had no copyright protection, so the one surest way to "get the most out" of a piece of writing was to have it produce its effect al at once, before it was pirated. "The Raven," for example, was pirated thousands of times--it was a "Platinum Selling Hit" for its times--yet Poe was paid only once, and that, for him, a not too miserly fee of a few dollars. was al he ever recei= ved. In the 1890=92s, Henry James was faced with the example of Poe, a writer who in the past he had been dismissive of. After the fabulou= s failures of his dramatic pieces on the stage, James found himself in need of money to keep himself and his beloved Lamb House afloat. (His neighbors there were to become Stephen Cran= e, Joseph Conrad and H. G. Wells.) James decided at first one the old famialar standby=97the writing of a serial=97which proved to be =93The Turn of the Screw.=94 As he worked to find a way to keep on creating an Effect on which each episode would end so= as to keep the suspense hanging and make the reader desire intensely to purcha= se the nest episodes as they appeared=97James began reconsidering Poe=92s theo= ry of the Effect. From the creation of a ghost story serial, James began to turn to the creation of short stories which, l= ike Poe=92s are created with the final effect in mind.=20 (While dictating aloud to his red haired Scottish typist =93The Turn of the Screw,=94 James discovered himself building in each epis= ode to the proper cliff hanging effect=97only to see not =93an effect=94 produced = on the typist, but rather his poker faced question as he paused with fingers in mi= d air to type the next words=97=93And then?=94 This may have contributed a bi= t towards James=92 deciding he would prefer to produce the Effect in toto in a short story=97just to see what if any Effect it had on the seemingly unimpression= able red haired typist.) Another interesting example is Roberto Bolano, who turned from writing poetry to producing short stories after his marriage and with = a child on the way. Bolano, like many other writers who have used this material of the short story competition for shor= t stories in themselves, discovered that in Spain a great many towns and smal= l cities offered prizes for best short story on such and such a theme, place = or person of the immediate region.=20 Competing for prizes helped Bolano develop his skills at producing Effects that would =93outshine=94 those of his opponents. From the short stories he moved to the novella form, and he became aware his life was rapidly getting shorter and shorter, and that the best way to leave a profitable legacy for his family was to compose novels=97and ever bigger ones!=97Bolano devoted himself literally feverishly to the production of as man words as possible, in order to earn the most money posthumously f= or his widow and small son. The connection between Captialsim and writing is NOT grammar, but WORD COUNT=97page length=97and, hopefully for the writer and publisher both, NAME RECONITION=97by which a much slighter prodcution can be marketed= if the author=92s name, rather than the bulk, merits the raising of the price = no matter how short a work may be. In one of his essays the Italian Futurist (an ex-Symbolist whose Futurism is littered with many of the most hackneyed of Symbolist ima= ges and techniques), considered that literature and poetry could be assigned va= lues based on a system of weights and measures, including that of measuring and weighing =93quality=94=97which is not unrelated is it not to=94 Name Recognition=94 as a =93guarantee=94 of at least a certain level of quality being available to t= he reader. This is another of the paradoxes of the hack work of Feneon=92s Faits Divers=97that in an anonymous poorly paid and very low-regarded form, he would decide to go about producing work of the highest quality, wh= ile getting absolutely no credit for it =93in name=94 nor being rewarded for hi= s extra efforts by any increase in the minimal pay. And so it is only a century later that Feneon=92s Faits Divers aka Nouvelles en trois lignes appear in English, in a translation of most o= f the pieces. (The translation unfortunately uses the word =93novels=92 for nouvelles=97which disappears the punning of =93short news items, news briefs=94 and short stories. Instead there is a making muc= h by reveiewers of the pieces being =93novels=94 which contradicts the entire meaning of the pun. It also makes impossible the contemporary punning of =93news flashes=94 with today=92s =93flash fictions.=94) Flaubert, after all, had already accomplished the turning=20 Several decades earlier of a provincial journal=92s Faits Divers into the novel Madame Bova= ry:=20 =93Delphine Delamare, 27, wife of a medical officer in Ry, displayed insufficient austerity. Worse, she ran up debts. To avoid paying them, she took poison.= =94 But then, despite the Figure of the Dead Author which strides so stridently about among the assertions of Authors who grow plump = with the fees their Name Recognition brings as they Bang the Drum Slowly=97perha= ps SLOWLY NOT AS A DIRGE BUT AS A VERY VERY VERY LONG DRAWN OUT SERIAL=97OR-- = EVEN BETTER-- A DECADE ADTER DECADE ONGOING SOAP OPERA =96 What writer of today would anonymously take on hack work of the slightest kind FOR THE LOWEST PAY and work on creating of each item a s= hort story beautifully composed via the elements of structure known as syntax, w= ord choice and the obligatory listing of information such as who what when why where- And a few years later basically stop writing altogether other than letters to friends and business associates=97for it was Feneon= =92s =93aspiration to silence=94=97his works were constructed to attain=97 In effect, a writer who combines Bartleby=92s =93I prefer not to=94 with Rimbaud=92s leaving of writing for work in a business establishm= ent. (In Feneon=92s case, a well- known Parisian art gallery turning his no longer b= eing France=92s best art critic since Baudelaire to use in selling the wares he once wrote = of.) See also:=20 Feneon's Faits Divers and Poe's Principles of Poetryhttp://cronacasouversivafeneon.blogspot.com/2008/12/feneons-poe-tic-g= hosthumously-anonymous.html FELIX FENEON AS CONCEPTUAL POET=20 http://cronacasouversivafeneon.blogspot.com/2008/12/felix-feneon-as-concept= ual-poet.html > Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 11:45:57 -0800 > From: eireene@GMAIL.COM > Subject: capitalism and the long poem > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >=20 > I sat down to write a little piece about this Russian poet, and came > up with a strange take on the long poem--an idea that the Seriality of > it is somehow related to consumer capitalism-- >=20 > http://tsky-reviews.blogspot.com/ >=20 > not the pleasantest thought-- >=20 > and so I was wondering if anyone has any good counter arguments, or > different takes on why so many are so obsessed with this form right > now. & will we fall out of love with it during the recession? >=20 > e >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc..buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html _________________________________________________________________ It=92s the same Hotmail=AE. If by =93same=94 you mean up to 70% faster. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_broad= 1_122008 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 13:18:10 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Peter Quartermain Subject: Disjunctive Poetics in paperback MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm happy to announce that Cambridge University Press has (at last) = issued=20 =20 Disjunctive Poetics: From Gertrude Stein and Louis Zukofsky to Susan = Howe =20 in paperback (digital reprint). ISBN 978-0-521-10130-1 It'as not exactly cheap, at something like $35.00, but that's less than = half the hardback price, and, hmmm, maybe affordable? =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Peter Quartermain 846 Keefer Street Vancouver BC Canada V6A 1Y7 604 255 8274 (voice and fax) quarterm@interchange.ubc.ca =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 =20 =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 00:05:05 -0800 Reply-To: ubuweb@yahoo.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: UbuWeb Subject: UBUWEB :: Featured Resources for the Year, 2008 (+Jan '09) Comments: To: Conceptual Writing-Group , rumori@detritus.net, ubuweb@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable __ U B U W E B __=20 http://ubu.com ------------------------------------------------------------ UBUWEB :: Featured Resources for the Year, 2008 (+ Jan '09) ------------------------------------------------------------ January 2009 =20 Selected by James Hoff =20 =20 1. Sjollander/Weck: Extracts from Monument http://ubu.com/film/sjolander_monument.html=20 2. Ron Rice: A Brief History of Anti-Records and Conceptual Records=20 http://ubu.com/papers/rice.html=20 =20 3. Alan Sondheim: Run by Me=20 http://www.ubu.com/contemp/sondheim/index.html=20 =20 4. Ulay: Action in 14 Predetermined Sequences =20 http://ubu.com/film/ulay_action.html=20 5. Joseph Nechvatal: viral symphOny (28'09") =20 http://ubu.com/sound/nechvatal.html=20 6. Henry Chopin Performance: Undated =20 http://ubu.com/film/chopin.html=20 7. CoLab: All Color News Sampler =20 http://ubu.com/film/colab_news.html=20 =20 8. Wim Mertens / John Cage "So that each person is in charge of himself." http://ubu.artmob.ca/sound/chicago_82/Chicago_82-B2_Cage-Mertens_So-that-ea= ch.mp3 =20 from A Dip in the Lake http://www.ubu.com/sound/chicago82.html=20 9. Dec-Francis: Rant 2 =20 http://ubu.artmob.ca/sound/dec_francis/Dec-Francis-E_rant2.mp3 =20 10. Charlemagne Palestine: Island Song=20 http://www.ubu.com/film/palestine.html=20 James Hoff is an artist living in New York City. He, along with Miriam Katz= eff, is the co-founder of http://www.primaryinformation.org/Primary Informa= tion. html =20 December 2008 =20 Selected by Julian Cowley 1. Robert Ashley - Music with Roots in the Aether =20 http://ubu.com/film/aether.html=20 =20 2. Joe Jones/ Chicken to Kitchen - Fluxus Meditation http://ubu.artmob.ca/s= ound/jones_joe/chicken/Jones-Joe+Chicken-to-Kitchen_02-Fluxus-Meditation.mp= 3 from Fluxsaints (1992)=20 http://ubu.com/sound/jones.html=20 3. Robert Wilson - Christopher Knowles - The Sundance Kid Is Beautiful (19= 75) http://ubu.artmob.ca/sound/dial_a_poem_poets/big_ego/Big_Ego_05-wilson.mp3= =20 from Giorno Poetry Systems, Big Ego=20 http://ubu.com/sound/big_ego.html =20 4. Wolf Vostell - De/Collage [LP] (1980) http://www.ubu.com/sound/vostell.html =20 5. John Cage and Raahsan Roland Kirk - Sound?? (1966) =20 http://www.ubu.com/film/kirk.html=20 6. Nicholas Moore, Spleen (Ubu Editions, 2004) =20 http://ubu.com/ubu/moore_spleen.html=20 7. Pina Bausch Documentary (directed by Anne Linsel) (2006) =20 http://www.ubu.com/film/bausch_linsel.html=20 8. David Behrman, Long Throw (Roulette, 2008) =20 http://www.ubu.com/film/roulette_behrman.html=20 9. Derek Bailey, Interview by Henry Kaiser (1987) http://ubu.artmob.ca/sound/bailey_derek/Derek-Bailey-Interview-by-Henry-Kai= ser_KPFA_2-7-87.mp3=20 10. Vito Acconci, The Bristol Project (2001)=20 http://ubu.artmob.ca/sound/acconci_vito/Acconci-Vito_The-Bristol-Project_20= 01.mp3 Julian Cowley contributes regularly to The Wire and occasionally to other m= usic magazines. He has also lectured and written extensively on literature.= During the 1980s he had the good fortune to work closely for several years= with poet and critic Eric Mottram, whose inexhaustible conversation was, i= n effect, a foretaste of the UbuWeb experience. November 2008=20 Selected by Neville Wakefield 1. Willoughby Sharp Interviews Vito Acconci (1973)=20 http://www.ubuweb.com/film/acconci_sharp.html=20 =20 2. Bas Jan Ader - Selected Works (1970-71) =20 http://www.ubu.com/film/ader_selected.html=20 3. Pipilotti Rist - Video Works (1986-2003) =20 http://www.ubu.com/film/rist.html=20 4. Chris Burden - Documentation of Selected Works 1971-74 http://www.ubu.com/film/burden.html=20 =20 5. ohan Grimonprez - Dial H-I-S-T-O-R-Y (1997) =20 http://www.ubu.com/film/grimonprez_dial.html J 6. The Films of Jack Goldstein (1974-1978) =20 http://www.ubu.com/film/goldstein.html=20 7. Gordon Matta-Clark - Splitting, Bingo/Ninths, Substrait (Underground Dai= lies) (1974-1976) =20 http://www.ubu.com/film/gmc_splitting.html=20 8. Lawrence Weiner - WATER IN MILK EXISTS (2008) http://www.ubu.com/film/weiner_water.html=20 9. Psychic TV - "Unclean" =20 http://ubu.artmob.ca/sound/dial_a_poem_poets/demon/Demon_04_psychic.mp3 10. Robert Smithson - Bootleg of Hotel Palenque by Alex Hubbard (1969 / 200= 4) http://www.ubu.com/film/smithson_hotel.html=20 Neville Wakefield is a writer and curator living in NYC. Recent film proje= cts include 'http://www.destricted.com/destricted ' a compilation of commis= sioned films by Marina Abramovic, Matthew Barney, Marco Brambilla, Larry Cl= ark, Gaspar Noe, Richard Prince and Sam Taylor Wood. Senior curatorial advi= sor to PS1 and curator of Frieze. He is also creative director of 'tar' m= agazine .html=20 October 2008 Selected by Gary Sullivan=20 1. Jaap Blonk's sound files =20 http://www.ubu.com/sound/blonk.html J 2. Dada Magazine =20 http://www.ubu.com/historical/dada/index.html=20 3. Drew Gardner's sound files =20 http://www.ubu.com/sound/gardner.html=20 4. Kenneth Goldsmith, editor, "Publishing the Unpublishable" series=20 http://ubuweb.com/ubu/unpub.html=20 =20 5. George Kuchar's films (especially "Corruption of the Damned") =20 http://www.ubu.com/film/kuchar.html=20 6. Anders Lundgerg, Jonas Magnusson and Jesper Olsson, editors, "After Lang= uage Poetry" papers =20 http://www.ubu.com/papers/oei/index.html=20 7. Paper Rad's "P-Unit Mixtape" =20 http://ubuweb.com/film/paperrad_p.html=20 8. Bern Porter's page =20 http://www.ubu.com/historical/porter/index.html=20 9. erome Rothenberg's Ethnopoetics : Soundings page (especially "Ca Dao, Vi= etnamese Folk Poems") =20 http://www.ubu.com/ethno/soundings/vietnam.html J 10. Survival Research Laboratories, "Virtues of Negative Fascination" http:= //ubuweb.com/film/srl_virtues.html=20 Poet and cartoonist Gary Sullivan lives in Brooklyn with http://ululate.bl= ogspot.com/Nada Gordon . Together, they wrote the book Swoon . Gary's most = recent book is PPL in a Depot . He has published three issues of a comic bo= ok, Elsewhere, and maintains a blog by the same name. =20 September 2008 Selected by Rick Moody 1. Komar and Melamid and Dave Soldier, "The Most Unwanted Song" =20 =C2=A5http://ubu.artmob.ca/sound/komar_melamid/KomarMelamid_The-Most-Unwant= edSong.mp3 2. Jacques Derrida, "On Religion"=20 Part 1=20 http://ubu.artmob.ca/sound/derrida_jacques/Derrida-Jacques_On-Religion_Part= -1.mp3 Part 2=20 http://ubu.artmob.ca/sound/derrida_jacques/Derrida-Jacques_On-Religion_Part= -2.mp3=20 3. Assorted Street Posters =20 http://www.ubu.com/outsiders/ass.html=20 4. William Carlos Williams, "Danse Russe." =20 http://media.sas.upenn.edu/pennsound/authors/Williams-WC/05_Emerson-Recordi= ng_08-50/Williams-WC_12_Widows-Lament_prod-Emerson_08-50.mp3 5. Beth B., "Stigmata" =20 http://www.ubu.com/film/b.html =20 6. James Joyce, "Anna Livia Plurabelle"=20 http://ubu.artmob.ca/sound/joyce_james/Joyce-James_Anna-Livia-Plurabelle.mp= 3 =20 7. Tellus #14, "Just Intonation"=20 http://www.ubu.com/sound/tellus_14.html=20 =20 8. Hugo Ball, "Karawane," performed by Marie Osmond =20 http://ubu.artmob.ca/sound/ball_hugo/Marie-Osmond_Hugo-Ball_Karawane.mp3 9. Gregory Whitehead, "We All Scream Alone" http://mediamogul.seas.upenn.edu/pennsound/authors/Whitehead/Gregory_Whiteh= ead-We_All_Scream_Alone_1992.mp3 =20 10. John Cage Meets Sun Ra =20 http://www.ubu.com/film/cage_kirk.html=20 Rick Moody is the author of four novels, three collections of stories, and= a memoir, THE BLACK VEIL. He also plays music with The Wingdale Community = Singers=20 August 2008 Selected by Ben Rubin=20 1. Erik Saite - A Day in the Life of a Musician http://www.ubu.com/papers/satie_day.html=20 =20 2. Richard Leacock - For an Uncontrolled Cinema =20 http://www.ubuweb.com/papers/leacock_richard-uncontrolled_cinema.html=20 3. William S. Burroughs - The Cut-Up Method of Brion Gysin=20 http://www.ubu.com/papers/burroughs_gysin.html=20 =20 4. Claude Cloksy - The first thousand numbers classified in alphabetical o= rder =20 http://www.ubu.com/concept/closky_1000.html 5. Robert Smithson - A Heap of Language =20 http://www.ubu.com/concept/smithson_heap.html=20 6. Vito Acconci - RE =20 http://www.ubu.com/concept/acconci_re.html=20 7. Marshall McLuhan - The Medium is the Massage, Side A http://ubu.artmob.ca/sound/mcluhan_marshall/Mcluhan-Marshall_The-Medium-Is-= The-Massage_01.mp3 Side B http://ubu.artmob.ca/sound/mcluhan_marshall/Mcluhan-Marshall_The-Medium-Is-= The-Massage_02.mp3 =20 8. Raphael Rubinstein - A Brief History of Appropriative Writing http://www.ubu.com/papers/rubinstein.html =20 9. Marjorie Perloff - The Music of Verbal Space =20 http://www.ubu.com/papers/perloff02.html=20 10. Steve Reich - Pendulum Music (score) =20 http://www.ubu.com/aspen/aspen8/leadPendulum.html #reich Ben Rubin is a media artist based in New York City. He has been a frequent= collaborator with artists and performers including Laurie Anderson, Diller= +Scofidio, Ann Hamilton, Arto Lindsay, Steve Reich, and Beryl Korot. July 2008 Selected by Zach Feuer 1. Paul McCarthy - Painter (1995) =20 http://ubu.com/film/mccarthy_painter.html =20 2. Pipilotti Rist - Video Works (1986-1999)=20 http://ubu.com/film/rist.html=20 =20 3. Richard Kern - My Nightmare (1993)=20 http://ubu.com/film/kern_nightmare.html=20 =20 4. Bas Jan Ader - Fall I and II (1970) =20 http://ubu.com/film/ader_selected.html=20 5. Lynda Benglis - Female Sensibility (1974)=20 http://ubu.com/film/benglis_female.html=20 =20 6. Sophie Calle and Greg Shepard - No Sex Last Night aka Double-Blind (1992= ) http://www.ubu.com/film/calle_double.html=20 =20 7. Kembra Pfahler - Cornella; The Story of a Burning Bush (1985) =20 http://www.ubu.com/film/pfhaler.html=20 8. Robert Morris and Stan VanDerBeek - Site (excerpt) (1964, .mov)=20 http://ubu.artmob.ca/sound/aspen/qt/morris.mov=20 =20 9. Carolee Schneeman - Meat Joy (1964) =20 http://www.ubu.com/film/schneeman_meatjoy.html=20 10. Dan Graham - Rock My Religion (1982-84) =20 http://www.ubu.com/film/graham_rock.html=20 Zach Feuer owns the creatively named Zach Feuer Gallery in New York City.= html=20 June 2008 Selected by Ron Silliman 1.Frank Film (1973), Frank and Caroline Mouris=20 http://ubu.com/film/mouris.html =20 =20 2. The Name (1973), Robert Creeley =20 http://ubu.artmob.ca/sound/dial_a_poem_poets/disconnected/Disconnected_11_c= reeley.mp3 3. Recollections of Grande Apachera (1973), Edward Dorn http://ubu.artmob.ca/sound/dial_a_poem_poets/disconnected/Disconnected_28_d= orn.mp3 =20 4. Reading at Goddard College (1973), Robert Creeley =20 http://media.sas.upenn.edu/pennsound/authors/Creeley/Goddard/Creeley-Robert= _Full_Goddard_VT_5-18-73.mp3 5. Carnival The First Panel: 1967-1970 (1973), Steve McCaffery =20 http://www.ubu.com/papers/mc_carn1.html=20 6. Black Tarantula Crossword Gathas (excerpt) (1973), Jackson Mac Low http://media.sas.upenn.edu/pennsound/authors/Mac-Low/CDs/Doings/Mac-Low-Jac= kson_08_Black-Tarantula_Doings_1982.mp3 =20 7. A Vocabulary for Sharon Belle Matlin (1973), Jackson Mac Low=20 http://media.sas.upenn.edu/pennsound/authors/Mac-Low/CDs/Doings/Mac-Low-Jac= kson_09_Vocabulary-for-Mattlin_Doings_1982.mp3 =20 8. Heavy Aspirations (1973), Charles Amirkhanian =20 http://ubu.com/sound/files/10+2_02.Charles_Amirkhanian.mp3 9. Armand Schwerner (1973), Phil Niblock (real video .rm file) =20 http://media.sas.upenn.edu/pennsound/video/Schwerner/Schwerner-Armand-by-Ph= ill-Niblock_c-1973.rm 10. High Kukus (1973), James Broughton http://greylodge.org/gpc/film/broughton_kuku.html Ron Silliman was once a slow left-handed second baseman. Now he lives in a= faux forest in what was once the Biddle Estate May 2008 =20 Selected by Christian Bok =20 1. Claude Closky: "The First Thousand Numbers Classified in Alphabetical Or= der" (1989) [PDF] =20 http://www.ubu.com/concept/Claude_Closky_1000.pdf 2. Derek Beaulieu: "Flatland" (2007) [PDF]=20 http://writing.upenn.edu/pepc/authors/beaulieu/Beaulieu-Derek_Flatland.pdf =20 3. Darren Wershler-Henry: "The Tapeworm Foundry" (2002) =20 http://www.ubu.com/ubu/wershler_tapeworm.html=20 4. Claude Simon: "Properties of Several Geometric and Non-Geometric Figures= " (1971) =20 http://www.ubu.com/ubu/simon_properties.html=20 5. F. T. Marinetti: "Dune, Parole in Liberte" (1914)=20 http://ubu.artmob.ca/sound/bruhin_anton/rotomotor/Bruhin-Anton_Rotomotor_05= _Rotomotor.mp3 =20 6. Survival Research Laboratories: "Virtues of Negative Fascination" (1985-= 86) =20 http://www.ubu.com/film/srl_virtues.html 7. Seth Price: "Video Game Soundtracks 1983-1987=1A (2001)=20 http://media.sas.upenn.edu/pennsound/authors/Price/Vidz/Price-Seth_Vid-Trax= _CONTINUOUS_MIX_2001.mp3 =20 8. Trek Bloopers=20 http://www.ubu.com/outsiders/365/2007/199.shtml 9. Anton Bruhin: "Rotomotor" (1976-77) =20 http://ubu.artmob.ca/sound/bruhin_anton/rotomotor/Bruhin-Anton_Rotomotor_05= _Rotomotor.mp3 10. RACTER: "The Policeman's Beard Is Half-Constructed" (1984) =20 http://www.ubu.com/historical/racter/index.html=20 BONUS TRACK: =20 "Music from Mathematics" (1962)=20 http://www.ubu.com/outsiders/365/2003/260.shtml IBM 7090 Christian Bok is the author of Eunoia. April 2008 =20 Selected by Laura Beiles =20 1. nita Feldman and Michael Kowalski, Riffle (1985) http://ubu.wfmu.org/sound/tellus_12/Tellus-12_07_Anita-Feldman-and-Michael-= Kowalski-Riffle.mp3A =20 2. MoMA: Writing in Time (2007) =20 http://www.ubu.com/sound/moma.html=20 3. Piotr Kamler, Films (1960s-90s) =20 http://www.ubu.com/film/kamler.html=20 4. Fortunato Depero, Verbalizzazione astratta di signora (1916) =20 http://ubu.artmob.ca/sound/depero_fortunato/Depero-Fortunato_Verbal.mp3 5. Penelope Umbrico, All the Dishes on Ebay (2002-03) http://www.ubu.com/contemp/umbrico/arrhythmia-allthedishesonebay/index.html =20 6. Catherine Jauniaux and Ikue Mori, 'Smell' (1992) =20 http://ubu.artmob.ca/sound/tellus_26/Tellus-26_05-Smell.mp3 7. Abbie Hoffman Makes Gefilte Fish (1973)=20 http://www.ubu.com/film/hoffman.html=20 =20 8. Mary Lou Green on Andy Warhol's Hair (1963)=20 http://ubu.wfmu.org/sound/warhol_andy/cronenberg/13_Cronenberg_Haircut.mp3 =20 9. Sophie Calle and Gregory Shephard, Double Blind (1992) =20 http://www.ubu.com/film/calle_double.html=20 10. Cioni Carpi, Three Short Films (1960-62) =20 http://www.ubu.com/film/carpi_three_short.html=20 Laura Beiles is an associate educator in the Department of Education Adult= and Academic Programs at The Museum of Modern Art, where she has organized= programs with artists, poets, scholars, architects, and designers for seve= n years. In May of 2007, she received her MA in Art History from Hunter Col= lege, and received the Shuster Award for her thesis, "Creating National and= International Identities: The Futurist Exhibitions at the Venice Biennale = under Fascism, 1928-1942'. Prior to coming to MoMA, she worked at NYU's La = Pietra in Florence and the Peggy Guggenheim Collection in Venice. =20 March 2008 =20 Selected by Seth Price=20 1. Tessa Hughes-Freeland "Baby Doll" (1982) =20 http://ubu.com/film/freeland.html=20 2. Marie Menken "Glimpse of the Garden" (1957) http://www.ubu.com/film/menken.html=20 =20 3. Robert Barry "Interview (1969)" =20 http://www.ubu.com/papers/barry_interview.html=20 4. Ethyl Eichelberger "Jocasta (Boy Crazy) or "She Married Her Son" (1986) = =20 http://ubu.artmob.ca/sound/uproar/The-Uproar-Tapes_05_Ethyl-Eichelberger.mp= 3 5. Lytle Shaw "Low-Level Bureaucratic Structures: Principles of the Emeryvi= lle Shellmound =20 http://www.ubu.com/ubu/shaw_low.html=20 6. Taj Mahal Travellers "Taj Mahal Travellers on Tour" (1973) =20 http://www.ubu.com/film/taj.html=20 7. Asger Jorn "Pataphysics: A Religion in the Making"=20 http://www.ubu.com/papers/jorn_pataphysics.html=20 =20 8. Racter "The Policeman's Beard Is Half-Constructed" (1984) =20 http://www.ubu.com/historical/racter/index.html=20 9. Tristan Tzara "A Note on Negro Poetry" (1918) http://www.ubu.com/ethno/discourses/tzara.html=20 =20 10. I.B.M. 7090 "Music From Mathematics" (1962) http://www.wfmu.org/365/2003/260.shtml Seth Price is an artist.=20 March 2008 =20 Selected by Stephanie Stricklandhtml =20 1. Maya Deren, "Divine Horsemen" =20 http://www.ubu.com/film/deren.html=20 2. "Concrete!" Ruth and Marvin Sackner Archive =20 http://www.ubu.com/film/sackner_concrete.html=20 3. Jason Nelson, "Poetry Cube" =20 http://www.ubu.com/contemp/nelson/index.html=20 4. b. p. Nichol, "White Text Sure" =20 http://media.sas.upenn.edu/pennsound/authors/bpNichol/Ear-Rational-1982/bpN= ichol_12_White-Txt-Sure_1978.mp3 5. Yoko Ono, "Snow Is Falling All the Time" =20 http://ubu.artmob.ca/sound/aspen/mp3/ono2.mp3 6. Dick Higgins, "Horizons" [PDF] http://ubu.com/ubu/higgins_horizons.html 7. Ketjak: the Ramayana Monkey Chant http://ubu.wfmu.org/sound/ethno/ketjack/mp3/Ketjak-the-Ramayana-Monkey-Chan= t.mp3 =20 8. Concrete Poetry: A World View" Mary Ellen Solt=20 http://www.ubu.com/papers/solt/index.html " =20 9. Raphael Rubinstein, "Gathered, not Made: A Brief History of Appropriativ= e Writing" =20 http://www.ubu.com/papers/rubinstein.html 10. Kenneth Goldsmith and Conceptual Poetics=20 http://www.ubu.com/papers/kg_ol.html=20 Bonus =20 11. Glossolalia: Speaking in Tongues =20 http://ubu.wfmu.org/sound/ethno/gloss/mp3/Unknown-Artist_Glossolalia.mp3 12. Caroline Bergvall, "About Face"=20 http://mediamogul.seas.upenn.edu/pennsound/authors/Bergvall/Bergvall-Caroli= ne-About-Face-2004.mp3 Stephanie Strickland is a poet. Her latest collaborative hypermedia work is= first shown at e-Poetry 2007 in Paris and published in `hyperrhiz: new med= ia cultures . Her latest book, Zone : Zero (with digital poetry CD) will ap= pear from Ahsahta Press in fall 2008. She recently published "Quantum Poeti= cs: Six Thoughts, in Media Poetry: An International Anthology," edited by E= duardo Kac, co-edited The Iowa Review Web issue, Coding: Jason Nelson, Donn= a Leishman, and Electronic Writing , and also co-edited the first Electroni= c Literature Collection, published by the Electronic Literature Organizatio= n February 2008 =20 Selected by Alan Licht =20 1. Derek Bailey Interview by Henry Kaiser =20 http://ubu.com/sound/bailey.html=20 2. Richard Foreman MP3 loops from Now That Communism Is Dead My Life Feels = Empty =20 http://ubu.com/sound/foreman.html=20 3. Bruce Nauman "Record" =20 http://ubu.com/sound/nauman.html=20 4. bpNichol =E2=80=94 all sound works =20 http://ubu.com/sound/nichol.html=20 5. Cornelius Cardew "Stockhausen Serves Imperialism" =20 http://ubu.com/historical/cardew/index.html=20 6. Philip Guston/Clark Coolidge "Poor Richard" =20 http://ubu.com/historical/guston/guston_nixon.html=20 7. Lou Reed "the View from the Bandstand" =20 http://www.ubu.com/aspen/aspen3/bandstand.html=20 8. Jack Smith "Buzzards Over Baghdad" =20 http://www.ubu.com/aspen/aspen3/flipbook.html=20 9. Richard Meltzer "Barbara Mauritz: Music Box" =20 http://ubu.com/concept/meltzer_music.html=20 10. Adrian Piper "Untitled 1968" http://ubu.com/concept/piper_68.html=20 Over the past two decades, guitarist Alan Licht has worked with a veritable= who's who of the experimental world. He has released five albums of compos= itions for tape and solo guitar, and his sound and video installations have= been exhibited in the U.S. and Europe. His new book Sound Art: Beyond Musi= c, Between Media , the first extensive survey of the genre in English, was = published by Rizzoli in fall 2007. February 2008 =20 Selected by Bettina Funckehtml =20 1. Harun Farocki, Inextinguishable Fire (1969) and How to Live in the Germa= n Federal Republic (1986)- Note! Films Removed by copyright holder's reques= t=20 2. UbuWeb Hall of Shame =20 3. Robert Frank, Energy and How to Get It (1981)=20 http://ubu.com/film/frank.html=20 4. J. G. Ballard, Shanghai Jim (1991)=20 http://ubu.com/film/ballard.html=20 5. Pandit Pran Nath Ragas of Morning and Night (1968)=20 http://ubu.com/sound/nath.html=20 6. Hrabanus Marus De adoratione crucis ab opifice / De Laudibus Sanctae Cr= ucis Augsburg (ca. 845)=20 http://www.ubu.com/historical/early/early01.html 7. Jacques Lacan, Television (1973) http://ubu.com/film/lacan.html =20 8. Joan Jonas "The Anchor Stone" (1988)=20 http://ubu.artmob.ca/sound/artist_tellus/Tellus-21-Artists_15_jonas.mp3 9. Inuit Throat Singing, from Ethnopoetics http://ubu.com/ethno/soundings/inuit.html =20 10. Assorted Street Posters (1985-present)=20 http://ubu.com/outsiders/ass.html =20 from Outsiders =20 http://ubu.com/outsiders/index.html Bettina Funcke is the Senior U.S. Editor of Parkett Magazine January 2008=20 Selected by Alex Ross=20 1. Robert Ashley "She Was a Visitor" =20 http://ubu.artmob.ca/sound/extended_voices/Extended-Voices_4_Robert-Ashley.= mp3=C2=A5 2. Kurt Schwitters "Sonata in Urlauten" =20 http://ubu.artmob.ca/sound/schwitters_kurt/ursonate/Schwitters-Kurt_Ursonat= e_01_Einleitung_Und_Erster_Teil.mp3 3. John Cale "Loop" http://ubu.artmob.ca/sound/aspen/mp3/loop.mp3 4. The Films of Mauricio Kagel =20 http://www.ubu.com/film/kagel.html 5. hCharles Amirkhanian "Dog of Stravinsky" =20 ttp://ubu.artmob.ca/sound/amirkhanian_charles/mental_radio/Amirkhanian_Char= les-Mental_Radio-03_Dog.mp3 6. Bernd Alois Zimmermann "Musique pour le soupers de Roi Ubu" =20 http://ubu.artmob.ca/sound/zimmerman_ba/Zimmermann-Bernd-Alois_Roi-Ubu.mp3 7. Pauline Oliveros "Sound Patterns"=20 http://ubu.artmob.ca/sound/extended_voices/Extended-Voices_1_Pauline-Oliver= os.mp3 =20 8. Ezra Pound "Sestina: Altaforte" =20 http://media.sas.upenn.edu/pennsound/authors/Pound/1939/Pound-Ezra_01_Sesti= na-Altaforte_Harvard_1939.mp3 9. John Cage "4'33" =20 http://ubu.com/film/cage_433.html=20 10. Robert Ashley "The Wolfman"=20 http://ubu.artmob.ca/sound/source/Ashley-Robert_Wolfman.mp3 Alex Ross has been the music critic of The New Yorker since 1996. His work= has also appeared in The New Republic, The London Review of Books, Lingua = Franca, and The Guardian. From 1992 to 1996 he was a critic at The New York= Times. He has received two ASCAP-Deems Taylor Awards for music criticism, = fellowships from the American Academy in Berlin and the Banff Centre, and a= Letter of Distinction from the American Music Center for contributions to = the field of contemporary music. He played keyboards in the noise band Miss= Teen Schnauzer, which gave only one public performance, in 1991. His first= book, The Rest Is Noise: Listening to the Twentieth Century ," a cultural = history of music since 1900, was published in October 2007 by Farrar, Strau= s and Giroux. ------------------------------------------------------------ UBUWEB :: Featured Resources for the Year, 2008 (+ Jan '09) ------------------------------------------------------------ UBUWEB IS ENTIRELY FREE __ U B U W E B __=20 http://ubu.com Apologies for cross-postings. Please forward. =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 10:51:31 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: capitalism and the long poem In-Reply-To: <581470.82605.qm@web111511.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Putting aside the dubiousness of the term post=20 modern and the assignment of dates to it, Pound=20 was writing the serial poem that was the=20 acknowledged model for Olson and Duncan well=20 before 1945, and Rimbaud was doing it even=20 earlier. It shouldn't be difficult to come up=20 with a few more, but I have to run out the=20 door--promises to keep, restless horses, etc. Mark At 08:16 AM 1/1/2009, you wrote: >One of the most fascinating developments of the post-modern era >Troy, One of the most fascinating developments=20 >of the post-modern era (& the era since then) is=20 >the development (evolution) of the Serial Poem.=20 >Robin Blaser's 'The Holy Forest' and Nate=20 >Mackey's 'Mu' or 'Song of the Andoumbolou'=20 >(which together could be considered part of the=20 >same poem) are two stellar examples of this.=20 >These are more recent examples and 'The Maximus=20 >Poems' and 'Paterson' are other examples and I=20 >am sure folks on the list could chip in their=20 >own favorites. The narrative that emerges is not=20 >as obvious and requires more study, more of a=20 >commitment than what was previously known as=20 >'epic.' The recognition of these in a mode=20 >similar to the epics of the past is very much a=20 >function of this shift in literature, especially=20 >after 1945 (the beginning of the post-modern=20 >era) and Jack Spicer's notion gets close to=20 >summing it up: =85The trick naturally is what=20 >Duncan learned years ago and tried to teach us =AD=20 >not to search for the perfect poem but to let=20 >your way of writing of the moment go along its=20 >own paths, explore and retreat but never be=20 >fully realized (confined) within the boundaries=20 >of one poem... It's pleasing to be back to=20 >actual poetics on the poetics list. Happy New=20 >Year. Paul E. Nelson Global Voices Radio SPLAB!=20 >American Sentences Organic Poetry Poetry=20 >Postcard Blog Ilalqo, WA 253.735.6328=20 >________________________________ From: Troy=20 >Camplin To:=20 >POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Tuesday,=20 >December 30, 2008 10:50:09 AM Subject: Re:=20 >capitalism and the long poem I think we've=20 >become obsessed with it precisely because it's=20 >fallen out of favor. Somebody, or a few people,=20 >wondered where it went, and began writing about=20 >it. It seems to me that the long poem became=20 >impossible with the abandonment of narrative by=20 >poets. How long can one keep up a feeling or a=20 >mood or an "experiment"? Frederick Fierstein=20 >writes quite long poems, but his poems also have=20 >narratives holding them together. Frederick=20 >Turner has written two epic poems. It seems that=20 >the gradual abandonment of narrative in poetry=20 >by the Modernists, especially the late=20 >Modernists, and the postmodern poets, far more=20 >than economic conditions, have contributed to=20 >the abandonment of long poetry as a form. Troy=20 >Camplin ________________________________ From:=20 >Eireene Nealand To:=20 >POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Monday,=20 >December 29, 2008 1:45:57 PM Subject: capitalism=20 >and the long poem I sat down to write a little=20 >piece about this Russian poet, and came up with=20 >a strange take on the long poem--an idea that=20 >the seriality of it is somehow related to=20 >consumer capitalism--=20 >http://tsky-reviews.blogspot.com/ not the=20 >pleasantest thought-- and so I was wondering if=20 >anyone has any good counter arguments, or=20 >different takes on why so many are so obsessed=20 >with this form right now. & will we fall out of=20 >love with it during the recession? e=20 >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics=20 >List is moderated & does not accept all posts.=20 >Check guidelines & sub/unsub info:=20 >http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=20 >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics=20 >List is moderated & does not accept all posts.=20 >Check guidelines & sub/unsub info:= http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept=20 >all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info:=20 >http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 07:59:25 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: carol dorf Subject: Re: capitalism and the long poem In-Reply-To: <581470.82605.qm@web111511.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline I think the long poem is often more a poem in interrelated segments -- Patricia Smith's "Blood Dazzler" approaches Katrina from numerous viewpoints including the Hurricane's. At the opposite end of the public/personal scale, Rusty Morrison's "the true keeps calm biding its story," is a formal experiment in the nature of the book-length poem. In reading these book-length poems, the individual segments provide a way to move through aspects of language/experience. On 1/1/09, Paul Nelson wrote: > One of the most fascinating developments of the post-modern era > Troy, > > One of the most fascinating developments of the post-modern era (& the er= a > since then) is the development (evolution) of the Serial Poem. Robin > Blaser's 'The Holy Forest' and Nate Mackey's 'Mu' or 'Song of the > Andoumbolou' (which together could be considered part of the same poem) a= re > two stellar examples of this. These are more recent examples and 'The > Maximus Poems' and 'Paterson' are other examples and I am sure folks on t= he > list could chip in their own favorites. > > The narrative that emerges is not as obvious and requires more study, mor= e > of a commitment than what was previously known as 'epic.' > > The recognition of these in a mode similar to the epics of the past is ve= ry > much a function of this shift in literature, especially after 1945 (the > beginning of the post-modern era) and Jack Spicer's notion gets close to > summing it up: > > =85The trick naturally is what Duncan learned > years ago and tried to teach us =96 not to search for the perfect poem bu= t to > let > your way of writing of the moment go along its own paths, explore and > retreat > but never be fully realized (confined) within the boundaries of one poem.= .. > > > > It's pleasing to be back to actual poetics on the poetics list. > > Happy New Year. > > > Paul E. Nelson > > Global Voices Radio > SPLAB! > American Sentences > Organic Poetry > Poetry Postcard Blog > > Ilalqo, WA 253.735.6328 > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Troy Camplin > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 10:50:09 AM > Subject: Re: capitalism and the long poem > > I think we've become obsessed with it precisely because it's fallen out o= f > favor. Somebody, or a few people, wondered where it went, and began writi= ng > about it. It seems to me that the long poem became impossible with the > abandonment of narrative by poets. How long can one keep up a feeling or = a > mood or an "experiment"? Frederick Fierstein writes quite long poems, but > his poems also have narratives holding them together. Frederick Turner ha= s > written two epic poems. It seems that the gradual abandonment of narrativ= e > in poetry by the Modernists, especially the late Modernists, and the > postmodern poets, far more than economic conditions, have contributed to = the > abandonment of long poetry as a form. > > Troy Camplin > > > > ________________________________ > From: Eireene Nealand > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 1:45:57 PM > Subject: capitalism and the long poem > > I sat down to write a little piece about this Russian poet, and came > up with a strange take on the long poem--an idea that the seriality of > it is somehow related to consumer capitalism-- > > http://tsky-reviews.blogspot.com/ > > not the pleasantest thought-- > > and so I was wondering if anyone has any good counter arguments, or > different takes on why so many are so obsessed with this form right > now. & will we fall out of love with it during the recession? > > e > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 22:19:45 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jamie Reid Subject: BILLY LITTLE NOVEMBER 14, 1943 - JANUARY 1, 2009 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Billy Little: October 14, 1943 - January 1, 2009 Our dear comrade and brother poet, Billy Little, slipped away from this l= ife at=20 about 5 AM on New Years Day. It almost seems to me as if he were imitatin= g=20 one of his idols, dada hero Tristan Tzara, who died on Christmas Day in 1= 963.=20 For several days he had been telling his friends that each day might be h= is=20 last, but he hung on and continued to breathe one day after another for=20= several days, until finally he lost the ability to speak and passed away.= Billy=20 spent his last days on his beloved Hornby Island, surrounded by his frien= ds.=20 He had been resigned to this final result since hearing from his doctors = last=20 January that the abdominal cancer through which he had endured several=20= rounds of chemotherapy and surgery would finally take his life in a matte= r of=20 months rather than years. He lived the months that were left to him with = great=20 courage and good humour, sometimes in tears, he told me once, that he=20 should have to leave the world, the life and the people that he loved wit= h=20 such passion and devotion. The people at his bedside near the end, his so= n=20 Matt Little, Gordon Payne and his caregiver, Colleen Work, confirmed that= =20 through his last hours, though he could not speak, he was clearly smiling= . Billy=92s son, Matt, will be inviting friends to the Hornby Island ball p= ark on=20 Sunday, January 4. In commemoration of Billy=92s life-long devoted attach= ment=20 to books and ideas, Matt will be handing out items from Billy=92s book co= llection.=20 Further notice of an expanded memorial event will be posted later. Typically, Billy left his life with a jest, a protest, leaving behind his= own=20 obituary: =20 obituary after decades of passion, dedication to world peace and justice, powerful= =20 frindships, recognition, being loved undeservedly by extraordinary women,= a=20 close and powerful relationship with a strong, handsome, capable, thought= ful=20 son Matt, a never ending stream of amusing ideas, affections shared with = a=20 wide range of creative men and women, a long residence in the paradisical= =20 landscape of hornby island, sucess after sucess in the book trade, fabulo= us=20 meals, unmeasurable inebriation, dancing beyond exhaustion, satori after = satori, billy little regrets he's unable to schmooze today. in lieu of flowers please send a humongous donation to the war resisters=20= league. I'd like my tombstone to read: billy little poet hydro is too expensive but I'd like my mortal remains to be set adrift on a flaming raft off chr= ome island =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 16:50:19 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Nicholas Karavatos Subject: at the Accident Gallery in Eureka, CA on Thursday the 8th=?windows-1256?Q?=FE=FE?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1256" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Poet Nicholas Karavatos will perform poems in spontaneous collaboration with electric guitarist Jeff Kelley at the Accident Gallery in Eureka on Thursday, January 8, 2009. The evening begins with an open mic at 7:30, followed by the inter-media spoken word performance by Nicholas Karavatos and Jeff Kelley. Accident Gallery 210 C St Eureka, CA 95501 (707) 445-2420 Nicholas Karavatos Dept of English American University of Sharjah PO Box 26666 Sharjah United Arab Emirates http://nicholaskaravatos.blogspot.com/ _________________________________________________________________ It’s the same Hotmail®. If by “same” you mean up to 70% faster. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_broad1_122008 ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 10:54:05 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: John Cunningham Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory In-Reply-To: <924148df0901020626i27b8fcesd094845230d3372f@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A very interesting and relevant response, Richard. I was watching the news yesterday and noted that a young man was killed as a result of a hockey fight. The newscaster implied that only a limited sector of the hockey audience was interested in watching hockey fights. My first thought was, "Bullshit!". That's part and parcel of being a hockey player and it's never going to change. The male stereotype is one of power and strength, of laughing in the face of danger. Would anyone be interested in watching people drive cars around an oval track if not for the expectation of accidents? Isn't that one of the reasons why tennis, which demands a damned sight more athletic ability than football or, perhaps, hockey, not as popular a sport? Although golf and baseball and watching grass grow are pretty popular, aren't they? John Herbert Cunningham -----Original Message----- From: Poetics List (UPenn, UB) [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Richard Newman Sent: January-02-09 8:26 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory Ruth and Amy make important points: That there may be parallels between prostitution and football does not make it invalid to criticize the specific institution, and specifics of the institution, of prostitution; nor does criticizing prostitution invalidate criticisms of football or any other form of labor; nor does the fact that both prostitution and football are labor mean that the precise terms of any particular critique should apply precisely in the same way to both of them. If prostitutes and the work they do were valued and valorized in this culture in the way that football players are, I imagine we would be having a very different conversation about The Poetry Brothel, but we do not value and valorize prostitutes, and while one reason we do not may have to do with a general (generic) squeamishness about sex and what it means to sell sex, another, more pervasive reason, has to do with the misogyny of our culture and how women are situated physically, politically, culturally and socioeconomically by that misogyny--and, need I say it?, the ways in which this misogyny and the institutions it forms and informs serve the needs of men. Why does the idea of the Poetry Slam not elicit critiques of the sort that Ruth brought up about The Poetry Brothel in terms of the commodification of men's bodies, etc. in wrestling smack downs, boxing or other violent sports? Well, one reason is that those sports do not, ultimately, devalue men; they may put men's bodies at great risk, but they actually enhance the status of the men who participate in them *as* men; prostitution also puts women's bodies at great risk, but rather than enhance prostitutes' status *as* women, it merely cements the status of the women who are prostitutes as second-class, dirty, or whatever appropriate adjective you wish to apply. This does not mean that we ought not to critique the Poetry Slam and the sports for which it is a literary performance metaphor from a masculine-gendered perspective, but even then the terms of the critique will be different because men and women are positioned differently in terms of our genders. To try to level everything off by equating the ways in which men are violence-objects in our culture to the ways in which women are sexual-objects, and by suggesting that the consequences of that objectification ought also be seen as equal (which means, essentially, interchangeable) is to deny, ignore and therefore perpetuate the reality of male dominance in the lives of both men and women. I have not been to The Poetry Brothel, but it seems to me, at least conceptually, to be brilliant satire, something along the lines of Woody Allen's The Whores of Mensa. I do wonder about the difference between writing this kind of satire and performing it, especially when the performance takes place regularly and someone is making (however little) money; but that, too, seems to me what good satire is supposed to do: call into question where we draw our lines by crossing them in ways that some will find offensive and others will find, well, satirical. Richard On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 5:43 PM, Ruth Lepson wrote: > > sick of men saying it's puritan moralizing to criticize prostitution. > whether it shd be legal or not is a complicated question. but I make no > judgment about prostitutes. if anything, I wish the world could hold them in > its arms in a loving way to counteract all they suffer. > > > On 12/31/08 4:33 PM, "Adam Tobin" wrote: > > > > > Here's an interesting article, for those who are interested, about a more > > useful approach to bettering the terrible conditions of brothels: forming a > > prostitutes' union. > > http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=the-prostitutes-union > > > > I think as long as every mention of prostitution brings up just so much > > puritan moralizing, pimps and their bosses will continue to operate with > > impunity, out of the sight of polite society. Meanwhile police continue to > > fine and jail the women, in order to keep them out of sight of the neighbors > > whose real estate values they would otherwise > > lower.tp://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > ================================== > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & > > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html -- Richard Jeffrey Newman Associate Professor, English Coordinator, Creative Writing Nassau Community College Garden City, NY 11530 http://faculty.ncc.edu/newmanr O: (516) 572-7612 F: (516) 572-8134 -- Literary Arts Director Persian Arts Festival www.persianartsfestival.org richard@persianartsfestival.org -- www.richardjnewman.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 11:24:32 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Paul Nelson Subject: More on the evolution of the Serial poem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Came across Rob McLannan's brilliant review of the new Spicer collected and= his are the comments between George Bowering's and the editors. The link i= s:=0A=0Ahttp://robmclennan.blogspot.com/2008/12/my-vocabulary-did-this-to-m= e-collected.html=0A=0A=0AThe genesis of Baseball, according to the=0Abeginn= ing of the poem, is that, in the beginning, God made baseball.=0AThe poem w= as written during the baseball season of 1965. It=92s dedicated=0Ato the gr= eat American poet Jack Spicer, who told us how to write a=0Aserial poem and= who was also interested in baseball. He was a San=0AFrancisco Giants fan. = Some of my critic friends like the poem because=0Ait=92s the first long poe= m in sections that I published. Jack Spicer died=0Aabout halfway through th= at summer, or two-thirds of the way through=0Athat summer, in Berkeley, at = the age of thirty-nine, and his death=0Abegins to enter into the last part = of the poem as part of the subject.=0AIt=92s an important poem to me becaus= e it=92s a long poem that is not=0Acontinuous in a narrative sense =85 does= n=92t have a set of characters,=0Adoesn=92t have a climax and all that busi= ness. All that holds it together=0Ais the fact that what=92s being written = about is baseball. It=92s written=0Ain nine sections, i.e., nine innings, a= nd it deals with my childhood=0Amemories of baseball being played in Oliver= , and big-league baseball,=0Aand baseball as a metaphor, and baseball as so= mething cosmic. But=0Areally, the subject of the bookis poetry. It reflects= on itself. It=0Ahas a lot to say about how one makes poetry. So the love f= or baseball=0Ais a disguised way of talking about a love for poetry.What=0A= I=92ve always appreciated about Spicer=92s =93serial poems=94 is how they= =0Aconnect through their sheer disconnect, letting the umbrella of=0Aconcep= t/title cover everything that falls under it, connecting the=0Apoem, someti= mes, simply because it is part of the same single piece.=0AWhen Spicer wrot= e serially, everything fell into the poem, and the=0Atangent, as well as se= rial repetition, became the point, as opposed to=0Aworking against the poin= t. Talking about Spicer=92s serial poem in the=0Aintroduction, the editors = write:=0A=0ASpicer conceived of and=0Adeveloped the =93serial poem=94: a bo= ok-length progression of short poems=0Athat function together as a single m= ovement. In his lectures, Spicer=0Aquoted Blaser=92s description of the ser= ial poem as akin to being in a=0Adark house, where you throw a light on in = a room, then turn it off, and=0Aenter the next room, where you turn on a li= ght, and so on. This=0Amovement from room to room in an architectural struc= ture makes sense if=0Ayou think of =93stanza=94 as coming from the Italian = for =93small room.=94 As=0Ahis poetry moves from dark room to dark room, ea= ch flash of=0Aillumination leaves an afterimage on the imagination, and the= lines of=0Athe poems become artifacts of an ongoing engagement with larger= forces.=0A=0A=0A This is the notion of serial poem which interests me.=0A= =0A=0A=0APaul E. Nelson =0A=0AGlobal Voices Radio=0ASPLAB!=0AAmerican Sente= nces=0AOrganic Poetry=0APoetry Postcard Blog=0A=0AIlalqo, WA 253.735.6328 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 11:47:18 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Eireene Nealand Subject: Re: capitalism and the long poem In-Reply-To: <719db60d0901030759w665deee7q951eaf1e28ba1e97@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline yes, i think this is an important part of it, the interrelated segments-- --little bits of incompleteness hooking up with other incomplete bits. a garland of fragments. (not my own line) "Blood Dazzler" sounds great. (and I just looked up a few excerpts--good to= o) Page duBois wote a little bit about this in "Sappho is Burning" but maybe she thought that there was more of a person in our times to hold all of the fragments together. Maybe it is just bits of other series that show up in the gaps. (but now I'm running off into theory land again). Pound, H.D., Olsen, Duncan, okay. it's this odd "irreal" hypercapitaism that I'm looking more at. Is there anyone that you guys would throw in a line with say, Mackey, Spahr, Roberson... (will look at more of Patricia Smith) That line makes me think more about music and modalities as being ways of moving around. Maybe Spahr is more like Golynko in that there are fewer--what to call them--monsters--unidentifiable objects on the surface (tho they are there). e On 1/3/09, carol dorf wrote: > I think the long poem is often more a poem in interrelated segments -- > Patricia Smith's "Blood Dazzler" approaches Katrina from numerous > viewpoints including the Hurricane's. At the opposite end of the > public/personal scale, Rusty Morrison's "the true keeps calm biding > its story," is a formal experiment in the nature of the book-length > poem. > > In reading these book-length poems, the individual segments provide a > way to move through aspects of language/experience. > > > On 1/1/09, Paul Nelson wrote: > > One of the most fascinating developments of the post-modern era > > Troy, > > > > One of the most fascinating developments of the post-modern era (& the= era > > since then) is the development (evolution) of the Serial Poem. Robin > > Blaser's 'The Holy Forest' and Nate Mackey's 'Mu' or 'Song of the > > Andoumbolou' (which together could be considered part of the same poem= ) are > > two stellar examples of this. These are more recent examples and 'The > > Maximus Poems' and 'Paterson' are other examples and I am sure folks o= n the > > list could chip in their own favorites. > > > > The narrative that emerges is not as obvious and requires more study, = more > > of a commitment than what was previously known as 'epic.' > > > > The recognition of these in a mode similar to the epics of the past is= very > > much a function of this shift in literature, especially after 1945 (th= e > > beginning of the post-modern era) and Jack Spicer's notion gets close = to > > summing it up: > > > > =85The trick naturally is what Duncan learned > > years ago and tried to teach us =96 not to search for the perfect poem= but to > > let > > your way of writing of the moment go along its own paths, explore and > > retreat > > but never be fully realized (confined) within the boundaries of one po= em... > > > > > > > > It's pleasing to be back to actual poetics on the poetics list. > > > > Happy New Year. > > > > > > Paul E. Nelson > > > > Global Voices Radio > > SPLAB! > > American Sentences > > Organic Poetry > > Poetry Postcard Blog > > > > Ilalqo, WA 253.735.6328 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Troy Camplin > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 10:50:09 AM > > Subject: Re: capitalism and the long poem > > > > I think we've become obsessed with it precisely because it's fallen ou= t of > > favor. Somebody, or a few people, wondered where it went, and began wr= iting > > about it. It seems to me that the long poem became impossible with the > > abandonment of narrative by poets. How long can one keep up a feeling = or a > > mood or an "experiment"? Frederick Fierstein writes quite long poems, = but > > his poems also have narratives holding them together. Frederick Turner= has > > written two epic poems. It seems that the gradual abandonment of narra= tive > > in poetry by the Modernists, especially the late Modernists, and the > > postmodern poets, far more than economic conditions, have contributed = to the > > abandonment of long poetry as a form. > > > > Troy Camplin > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Eireene Nealand > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 1:45:57 PM > > Subject: capitalism and the long poem > > > > I sat down to write a little piece about this Russian poet, and came > > up with a strange take on the long poem--an idea that the seriality of > > it is somehow related to consumer capitalism-- > > > > http://tsky-reviews.blogspot.com/ > > > > not the pleasantest thought-- > > > > and so I was wondering if anyone has any good counter arguments, or > > different takes on why so many are so obsessed with this form right > > now. & will we fall out of love with it during the recession? > > > > e > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guide= lines > > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guide= lines > > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guide= lines > > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guideli= nes & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 14:15:15 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: YES, WE CAN STOP THE BLOODSHED: Links to Petitions and Events To Tell US Leaders to Stop Bloodshed in Gaza-Israel In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable YES=2C WE CAN JOIN THE INTERNATIONAL PROTESTS GROWING BY THE HOUR Links to contact members of the current and soon to be US Government to sayYES=2C WE CAN STOP THE BLOODSHEDYES=2C WE CAN STOP THE SLAUGHTER FUND= ED BY US TAX DOLLARS YES=2C WE CAN BRING HOPE AND PEACE Just Foreign Policy News January 2=2C 2009 Just Foreign Policy News on the Web If you're having trouble reading the email version=2C try the web version: http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/newsroom/blog/ Write Now to Save Lives in Gaza Urge US officials to support an immediate ceasefire and lifting the blockade on Gaza - Write to President-elect Obama: http://justforeignpolicy.org/involved/gazaceasefireobama.html Write to President Bush and Congress: http://justforeignpolicy.org/involved/gazaceasefirebushcongress.html Background: Calling Out Bush's War in Gaza The Bush Administration provided the weapons=2C knowing what they would be used for. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-naiman/calling-out-bushs-war-in_b_1548= 25.html The Gaza War is Completely Stoppable http://www.commondreams.org/view/2008/12/31-9 American Jews Call for Immediate Ceasefire=2C End of Gaza Blockade http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-naiman/american-jews-call-for-im_b_154= 353.html =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Emergency Conference Call &=20 More Action to Take on Gaza Through six days of attacks on the occupied Gaza Strip=2C Israel has killed at least 430 Palestinians and injured at least 2=2C250 with = U.S. weapons in violation of U.S. law. Israel now stands ready to invade the Gaza Strip with troops at any moment.=20 =20 Israel's attacks come on top of a brutal siege of the Gaza Strip=2C which has created a humanitarian catastrophe of dire proportions for Gaza's 1.5 million Palestinian residents by restricting the provision of food= =2C fuel=2C medicine=2C electricity=2C and other necessities of life. =20 Make no mistake about it-Israel's war and siege on the Gaza Strip would not be possible without the jets=2C helicopters=2C ships=2C= missiles=2C and fuel provided by the United States. Additional troubling details continue to emerge about the misuse of U.S. weapons b= y Israel: =20 * Israel is dropping GBU-39 small diameter bombs on the Gaza Strip. According to weapons experts=2C these bombs contain uranium oxide and have left behi= nd radioactive contamination in places such as Kosovo=2C Iraq=2C and Afghanistan. In September 2008=2C Boeing received a $77 million contract to transfer= 1=2C000 of these bombs to Israel.=20 =20 =20 * On December 30=2C the Israeli navy intentionally rammed a boat in international wat= ers which was carrying medical supplies to the Gaza Strip=2C nearly causing= it to sink. The passengers of The Dignity included doctors and recent Green Party Presidential candidate Cynthia McKinney. In July 2008=2C the Uni= ted States signed a contract to transfer $1.9 billion of naval combat ships to Israel. =20 =20 TAKE ACTION =20 =20 Find out what you can do to take action by clicking here. Action steps= include: =20 * Participate in a US Campaign emergency conference call on Monday=2C January 5 at 9PM Eastern. To RSVP and get call-info=2C send your name and organizational affiliation (if any)= to us by clicking here. =20 * Join one of nearly 150 protests in the United States against Israel's attacks. =20 * Download resources and sign up for organizing packets to educate and organize pe= ople in your community to end U.S. military aid to Israel. =20 * Contact the President and set up meetings with your Members of Congress.=20 =20 * Download talking points for getting our message into the media. =20 * Step up the pressure on President Elect-Obama and the new Congress by signing our open letter and by coming to DC for Inauguration Day and our Feb. 1-2 Grassroots Advocacy Training and Lobby Day. =20 * Make a tax-deductible contribution to us so that less of your taxes go to Israel's war machine. =20 TAKE ACTION NOW =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Humanitarian implosion in Gaza. Urge Secretary Rice to help end the civilian bloodshed! =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Dear david=2C =20 It may be a new year=2C but the bloodshed in Gaza this past week is a c= lear reminder that there's no time to wait to protect human rights in 2009. =20 Since December 27=2C these horrific attacks on Gaza have caused over 40= 0 Palestinian deaths and 2000 injuries. Rocket fire by armed Palestinian groups=2C including Hamas=2C has taken the lives of 4= Israelis and caused several dozen injuries. Amnesty International condemns the violence on both sid= es and calls on both parties to abide by international law and policies.=20 =20 The U.S. government cannot continue this lop-sided blame on Hamas for the crisis= . Ask Secretary Rice to urgently express deep concern about Israel's disproportional response a= nd its policies which have brought the Gaza Strip to the brink of humanita= rian disaster.=20 =20 Civilians in Gaza=2C already trapped in disgraceful humanitarian conditions=2C are victims o= f Israeli air strikes and intensified attacks. Israeli blockades of humanitarian supplies continue to deny Palestinians the food and medica= l supplies they desperately need.=20 =20 Join Amnesty International in calling for Secretary Rice to:=20 Pressure Israel and Palestinian armed groups to cease attacks on civilians Demand = an end to Israel's disproportional response Urge Israel to open the crossings to let humanitarian aid in=20 Together we can help lift Gaza out of this crisis.=20 =20 Sincerely=2C=20 =20 Curt Goering Senior Deputy Executive Director Amnesty International USA =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 _________________________________________________________________ It=92s the same Hotmail=AE. If by =93same=94 you mean up to 70% faster. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_broad= 1_122008= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 12:12:32 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Inauguration theology and poetics In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed On Jan 1, 2009, at 11:10 AM, Corey Frost wrote: > On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 12:54:49 -0800, George Bowering > wrote: > >> On Dec 31, 2008, at 10:53 AM, Corey Frost wrote: >> >>> . Civil discourse means >>> listening to differing views, of course, but that doesn't mean one >>> has to >>> validate a certain view just because a lot of people hold it. >> >> Would this include the U.S. Constitution >> or the election of Obama? >>> > > Yes. And you believe that permitting a view to be expressed equals validating it? I wish I had known that before allowing my students to speak their minds all those years! > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/ > welcome.html > George H. Bowering, OC Dull as dishwater. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 12:16:03 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: George Bowering Subject: Re: capitalism and the long poem In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20090103104832.078265f8@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed Charles Olson as a writer of the serial poem? I wish we could hear Jack Spicer's response to that notion! gb On Jan 3, 2009, at 7:51 AM, Mark Weiss wrote: > Putting aside the dubiousness of the term post modern and the =20 > assignment of dates to it, Pound was writing the serial poem that =20 > was the acknowledged model for Olson and Duncan well before 1945, =20 > and Rimbaud was doing it even earlier. It shouldn't be difficult to =20= > come up with a few more, but I have to run out the door--promises =20 > to keep, restless horses, etc. > > Mark > > > At 08:16 AM 1/1/2009, you wrote: >> One of the most fascinating developments of the post-modern era >> Troy, One of the most fascinating developments of the post-modern =20 >> era (& the era since then) is the development (evolution) of the =20 >> Serial Poem. Robin Blaser's 'The Holy Forest' and Nate Mackey's =20 >> 'Mu' or 'Song of the Andoumbolou' (which together could be =20 >> considered part of the same poem) are two stellar examples of =20 >> this. These are more recent examples and 'The Maximus Poems' and =20 >> 'Paterson' are other examples and I am sure folks on the list =20 >> could chip in their own favorites. The narrative that emerges is =20 >> not as obvious and requires more study, more of a commitment than =20 >> what was previously known as 'epic.' The recognition of these in a =20= >> mode similar to the epics of the past is very much a function of =20 >> this shift in literature, especially after 1945 (the beginning of =20 >> the post-modern era) and Jack Spicer's notion gets close to =20 >> summing it up: =85The trick naturally is what Duncan learned years =20= >> ago and tried to teach us not to search for the perfect poem but =20 >> to let your way of writing of the moment go along its own paths, =20 >> explore and retreat but never be fully realized (confined) within =20 >> the boundaries of one poem... It's pleasing to be back to actual =20 >> poetics on the poetics list. Happy New Year. Paul E. Nelson Global =20= >> Voices Radio SPLAB! American Sentences Organic Poetry Poetry =20 >> Postcard Blog Ilalqo, WA 253.735.6328 =20 >> ________________________________ From: Troy Camplin =20 >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: =20 >> Tuesday, December 30, 2008 10:50:09 AM Subject: Re: capitalism and =20= >> the long poem I think we've become obsessed with it precisely =20 >> because it's fallen out of favor. Somebody, or a few people, =20 >> wondered where it went, and began writing about it. It seems to me =20= >> that the long poem became impossible with the abandonment of =20 >> narrative by poets. How long can one keep up a feeling or a mood =20 >> or an "experiment"? Frederick Fierstein writes quite long poems, =20 >> but his poems also have narratives holding them together. =20 >> Frederick Turner has written two epic poems. It seems that the =20 >> gradual abandonment of narrative in poetry by the Modernists, =20 >> especially the late Modernists, and the postmodern poets, far more =20= >> than economic conditions, have contributed to the abandonment of =20 >> long poetry as a form. Troy Camplin =20 >> ________________________________ From: Eireene Nealand =20 >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Monday, =20= >> December 29, 2008 1:45:57 PM Subject: capitalism and the long poem =20= >> I sat down to write a little piece about this Russian poet, and =20 >> came up with a strange take on the long poem--an idea that the =20 >> seriality of it is somehow related to consumer capitalism-- http://=20= >> tsky-reviews.blogspot.com/ not the pleasantest thought-- and so I =20 >> was wondering if anyone has any good counter arguments, or =20 >> different takes on why so many are so obsessed with this form =20 >> right now. & will we fall out of love with it during the =20 >> recession? e =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List =20 >> is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/=20 >> unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =20 >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & =20 >> does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: =20 >> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check =20 >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/=20 >> welcome.html > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check =20 > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/=20 > welcome.html > GB Is currently imagining the universe. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 16:32:19 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: CA Conrad Subject: OPEN LETTER to Rick Warren's new friend Melissa Etheridge /\\///\\\\/////\\\\\\///////\\\\\\\\///////// MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear Melissa Etheridge, it seemed like good news that you had met with Pastor Rick Warren to confront him on his homophobic disinformation campaign. It makes sense that many thoughtful, open-minded people are thinking that your meeting with Warren made for a good, productive meeting of the minds. Many of these same people worked VERY HARD to get Mr. Obama elected, so the idea of him CHOOSING an openly homophobic anti-Semite like Warren to give "the blessing" at his inauguration to set the spiritual tone of his presidency is a very difficult thing to wrap our minds around. Our feeling of betrayal is appropriate. To be honest Melissa I have no idea how much experience you have with Fundamentalist Christians, but they're called FUNDAMENTALIST for a reason. When you say you are interested in peace I don't doubt you for a minute. But when you say we should volunteer to be more visible it's nothing but weird to me. Your direct quote is, "Maybe if they get to know us, they won't fear us." But we queers don't grow on trees on a faraway island. Fundamentalist Christians deal with us all the time because live in their towns. They gave birth to us, we are in their families, and we don't need to visit because we're already there. They know us and we know them, quite well. From my own experience and understanding with Fundamentalist Christian relatives, there are some who will not allow me to use their towels or toilets because I'm queer. You wouldn't be allowed to either, no matter how many CDs you've sold. Never mind gay marriage, you can't take a shit! And these are people who LOVED me dearly when I was a boy. I FELT their love, and remember it well. And I also remember how painful it was to let them know I was queer, having grown up hearing their sadistic vitriol. My options were to hide or come out. Hiding is an option only for the true masochist, and I am not one. A relative said to me, "You were such a handsome boy, we had such hope for you." In an instant I became someone who was now ugly and without hope. If I die tomorrow some members of my family will say, "We know where he's headed!" These are extremely unreasonable and uncompromising people, and their bible backs them up one hundred percent. I've read these passages, I've had them read to me. Queers are an abomination, period. We can serve all the soup in the world to all the homeless of the world but we're still going to Hell. The bible says so, period. And Rick Warren can say Jews and queers are going to Hell as gently as he can, but he still says it, and in doing so he makes Jews and queers subhuman animals not worthy of God's love. We are refuse, and THAT is the very kind of philosophy which encouraged Aaron McKinney to torture and murder Matthew Shepard. THAT is the very philosophy which permitted Roland Button to run over Erika Keels four times with his car, and the very philosophy that made her so invisible and inhuman that Philadelphia police wrote her death down as an accident, which remains classified an accident to this day. Despite the medical examiner's report, despite witnesses, despite petitions and marching and demonstrating on behalf of this 20-year old African American transwoman, her murderer has never stood trial, see this: http://www.petitiononline.com/ErikaK/ My boyfriend Earth was murdered in Tennessee. His twin brother who still lives in Philadelphia told me his hands were tied behind his back, he was dowsed with gasoline and set on fire. Over and over I asked, "HOW could they do this!!!!? HOW could they do this!!!!?" But we all know how, we know exactly how. Whoever murdered him was able to find the necessary apathy from a legacy of hate, a legacy of PERMISSION, handed down from church to church, quoting verse to sanction and spur their actions. In Adolf Hitler's Germany the clergy who used the pulpit to spread hatred of Jews and Homosexuals were doing so to ease the troubled conscience, to act as a link to the voice of God to ORDAIN The Holocaust. Ask yourself how guilty are these men who used their positions of respect and their aura of holiness to push their trusting congregations to commit such atrocities? Rick Warren is the author of one of the best-selling hardcover books in publishing history. And this is a country where he should be allowed to express himself freely, but so should we be allowed to counter it, to let the voice of reason break through. Millions of people trust and absorb Warren's message that Jews will burn in Hell, and that queers are not FIT to be treated the same as decent heterosexual Christians. Melissa why do you ask US to volunteer in his church? Why not ask these Fundamentalist Christians to volunteer at gay community centers and the queer suicide hotlines? Instead of asking US to show how worthy we are, how about they be asked to prove their worthiness for a change? It is WRONG to grovel up to them for acceptance, for these are the people who pushed US away in the first place, remember? The compromises they demand of us are too expensive and would eat us alive. We need to be LOUD and be LOUD NOW, not to get through to the people who have shunned us and discarded us, but for the young queer people growing up in these repressive, dangerous families. We need to prevent yet more suicides. And it would be nice to prevent gay bashing and murders, but that's a whole long battle which involves centuries of permission to undo. Did you see the movie Borat? The people being interviewed in the film were not actors. There's a man at a rodeo scene who says without hesitation into the camera that "we're working on" being able to hang queers here like they do in Borat's country. The man openly admires hanging queers elsewhere in the world. Some days THE ONLY THING keeping these bloodthirsty people in check in America is their fear of prison and the electric chair, and some days that's all we queers have between our lives and the grave. In "Homosexuality and Marxism," the great American poet Jack Spicer wrote: Homosexuality is essentially being alone. Which is a fight against the capitalist bosses who do not want us to be alone. Alone we are dangerous. Our dissatisfaction could ruin America. Our love could ruin the universe if we let it. Thank you Jack, for that! This ruin to me is transformative, is the Phoenix, and feels nothing less than essential for love to DEMAND its increase. Melissa please don't ask us to prove that we're good people, because if we have to prove it, then how good are the people asking us to prove it? And frankly I'm VERY GLAD that Barak Obama won and not John McCain and Sarah Palin, but at the same time Obama is LUCKY I didn't know he would CHOOSE Rick Warren's blessing BEFORE election day. You'll see me at the inauguration, I'll be the one with the sign that says, "YOU'RE LUCKY I CAN'T TAKE MY VOTE BACK!" For all those who have suffered and continue to suffer, we must remember Dr. Martin Luther King's words, "The time is always right to do what is right." Most sincerely, poet CAConrad http://PhillySound.blogspot.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 15:14:27 -0800 Reply-To: steph484@pacbell.net Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Eyeless in Gaza Comments: cc: "Poetryetc: poetry and poetics" , UK POETRY MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In 8 years, the Bush Regime - neocons, and no doubt with Israel's complicit= y - imagined=A0 Iraq's demise would 'reconfigure the Mideast' with democrac= ies up and instantly flourishing in the glow of a successful invasion. Now = Israel invades Gaza - with American armor and support - still imagining/dre= aming a reconfiguration of the Mideast.=A0 If 'slaughter' counts as vision = 'they' are clearly winning by the dead in numbers. If this invasion counts = as the Israel/American 'vision' in any other sense, 'Eyeless in Gaza' appea= rs to be more accurate than ever. Might as well imagine a tank or Cheney th= reading a needle's eye.=A0=20 What keeps these people - other than pathology - running this wheel over an= d over again?=A0 One - somewhat helpless at the moment - can only 'hope' th= at this is Bush & Cheney's "Last Tape" and that Hilary-Obama might (might) = pour some water on 'the powder'=A0 and work out a vocabulary not built on s= laughter.=20 =A0 Stephen Vincent http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 20:58:17 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Carol Novack Subject: 2009 PressPress Chapbook Award Comments: To: CRWROPPS-B@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <0D6CAC26-3435-447B-8B8B-17B3650E3C99@presspress.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline KlByZXNzUHJlc3MgQ2hhcGJvb2sgQXdhcmQgMjAwOSoKVGhlIG5ld3MgaXMgdGhhdCBhZnRlciBh IHN1Y2Nlc3NmdWwgQXdhcmQgaW4gMjAwOCB0aGUgUHJlc3NQcmVzcyBDaGFwYm9vawpBd2FyZCB3 aWxsIHJ1biBhZ2FpbiBpbiAyMDA5IQoKVGhlIEF3YXJkIGlzIGZvciBhbiB1bnB1Ymxpc2hlZCBj aGFwYm9vayBsZW5ndGggbWFudXNjcmlwdCBvZiBwb2Vtcy4gVGhlCndpbm5pbmcgbWFudXNjcmlw dCB3aWxsIHJlY2VpdmUgKiQ1MDAgYW5kIGNoYXBib29rIHB1YmxpY2F0aW9uIHdpdGgKUHJlc3NQ cmVzcyouIFRoZSBjbG9zaW5nIGRhdGUgaXMgMzEgTWF5IDIwMDkuCgpMYXN0IHllYXIncyBBd2Fy ZCBoYWQgZW50cmllcyBmcm9tIGFsbCBBdXN0cmFsaWFuIHN0YXRlcywgYXMgd2VsbCBhcyBDaGlu YSwKVHVya2V5LCBQb2xhbmQgYW5kIE5ldyBaZWFsYW5kIHdpdGggb25lIGJpbGluZ3VhbCBtYW51 c2NyaXB0LiBUaGVyZSB3YXMgYQpncmVhdCBzdGFuZGFyZCBvdmVyYWxsIHdoaWNoIGlzIGdvb2Qg Zm9yIHRoZSBzdGF0ZSBvZiBwb2V0cnkgYW5kIGp1ZGdlcyBhcmUKaGFwcHkgdG8gc2VlIGlubm92 YXRpb24gYW5kIHJpc2tzIHRha2VuIHdpdGggdGhlIGVudHJpZXMuIENhcm9seW4gRmlzaGVyJ3MK bWFudXNjcmlwdCwqIFRoZSBVbnN1c3BlY3RpbmcgU2t5Kiwgd2FzIHRoZSB3aW5uZXIgYW5kIHdh cyBwdWJsaXNoZWQgaW4KT2N0b2JlciAyMDA4LiBJdCB3YXMgQ2Fyb2x5bidzIGZpcnN0IGNoYXBi b29rIGFuZCBoYXMgYmVlbiB3ZWxsIHJlY2VpdmVkIC0KZXNwZWNpYWxseSBpbiBoZXIgaG9tZSBz dGF0ZSBvZiBUYXNtYW5pYS4KCkkgaGF2ZSBhZGRlZCBhIGNvcHkgb2YgdGhlIGVudHJ5IGZvcm0g YmVsb3cgYnV0IGl0IGlzIGJlc3QgdG8gZ28gdG8gdGhlIHNpdGUKdG8gY2hlY2sgb3V0IHRoZSBn dWlkZWxpbmVzIGFzIHdlbGwuIEl0IHdvdWxkIGJlIGdvb2QgaWYgeW91IGNvdWxkIHBhc3MgaXQK b24gdG8gcGVvcGxlIHlvdSB0aGluayBtaWdodCBiZSBpbnRlcmVzdGVkLgoKV2l0aCBiZXN0IHdp c2hlcwoKQ2hyaXMKClByZXNzUHJlc3MKKnd3dy5wcmVzc3ByZXNzLmNvbS5hdSoqKiA8aHR0cDov L3d3dy5wcmVzc3ByZXNzLmNvbS5hdS8+CgoKKlByZXNzUHJlc3MgQ2hhcGJvb2sgQXdhcmQgMjAw OSoKKkVudHJ5IGZvcm0qCioqCipUaXRsZSBvZiBtYW51c2NyaXB0KgoqKgoqX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fCioKKioKKk5hbWUgb2YgYXV0aG9yCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18qCioqCipBZGRyZXNzIF9fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18K KgoqKgoqVG93bi9TdWJ1cmIgX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fIFBv c3Rjb2RlIF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fCioKKioKKkRheXRpbWUgcGhvbmUgX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KTW9iaWxlIF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18qCioqCipF bWFpbApfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fKgoqKgoqSSBoYXZlIHJlYWQgdGhlIENvbmRpdGlvbnMgb2YgRW50 cnkgYW5kIGFncmVlIHRvIHRoZW0uIFRoZSBtYW51c2NyaXB0IGlzIG15Cm93bioKKm9yaWdpbmFs IHdvcmsgYW5kIGhhcyBub3QgYmVlbiBwdWJsaXNoZWQgYXMgYSBjb2xsZWN0aW9uLioKKioKKk5h bWUgX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fIFNpZ25hdHVyZSBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fXyBEYXRlCl9fX19fX19fXyoKKioKKklmIHlvdSBhcmUgdW5kZXIgMTgsIHRoZSBzaWduYXR1 cmUgb2YgYSBwYXJlbnQgb3IgZ3VhcmRpYW4gaXMgcmVxdWlyZWQ6KgoqKgoqTmFtZSBvZiBwYXJl bnQvZ3VhcmRpYW4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXyBTaWduYXR1cmUKX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fXyoKKioKKkNoZWNrbGlzdDoqCioqCirinZAgTWFudXNjcmlwdCBoYXMgYSB0aXRs ZSBidXQgbm90IHRoZSBwb2V0J3MgbmFtZSoKKuKdkCBPbmUgaGFyZGNvcHkgb2YgbWFudXNjcmlw dCBpcyBlbmNsb3NlZCoKKuKdkCBTU0FFIGVuY2xvc2VkIGlmIHlvdSB3YW50IHlvdXIgb3JpZ2lu YWwgcmV0dXJuZWQuKgoq4p2QIENoZXF1ZS9tb25leSBvcmRlciB0byBQcmVzc1ByZXNzIG9yIFBh eVBhbCByZWNlaXB0IGZvciAkMTUgaXMgZW5jbG9zZWQuKgoq4p2QIEVudHJ5IGZvcm0gZW5jbG9z ZWQuKgoq4p2QIFBvc3RlZCB0byBQcmVzc1ByZXNzIENoYXBib29rIEF3YXJkLCBQTyBCb3ggOTQs IEJlcnJ5IE5TVyAyNTM1LCBBdXN0cmFsaWEKKgoqc28gaXQgYXJyaXZlcyBieSAzMCBNYXkgMjAw OS4qCgoKCgoKIk1hcHF1ZXN0CklmIHlvdSB3YWxrIHN3aWZ0bHkgdG8gcmVhY2ggZGVhZGxpbmVz LCB5b3UgbWF5IG1pc3MgdGhlIHR1cm4uCklmIHlvdSB3YWxrIHNsb3dseSB0byBhcnJpdmUgYXQg c3BlY2lmaWMgcGxhY2VzLCB5b3UgbWF5IG1pc3MgdGhlIHR1cm4uCiAgICBXYWxrIHdpdGhvdXQg cG9pbnQgcGFzdCB0aGUgcGxheWdyb3VuZHMgYW5kIGNlbWV0ZXJpZXMsIHdlZGRpbmcgcm90dW5k YXMKYW5kIHRhdmVybnMuCiAgICAgICAgICAgIFdhbGsgb25seSB0b3dhcmQgcG9zc2liaWxpdHkg d2l0aG91dCB0aG91Z2h0IGFuZCByZWZsZWN0aW9uCndpdGhvdXQgbGlnaHQuIiAtIENOIGMuIDIw MDggZnJvbSAiR2F0ZWQgQ29tbXVuaXRpZXMiCg== ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 23:23:39 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: James Robinson Subject: Data-Tantrum: Looking for members MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hey there, I've just started a social network at http://data-tantrum.ning.com/ So if you're interested in "differentiated poetics" or literacy w/o borders, check it out. Better yet, join. Looking to discuss multi-modal input and a poetics that includes not just words, but food, dance, video games, you name it... Basically, any form of engineered experience or communicaion that causes an effect. The first discussion is basically a "fantasy curricula league" for k-12. Could be fun... Hope to see you there, JR ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 00:20:11 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Joel Lewis Subject: Gotham Book Mart Holdings Are Given to Penn MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline from NY TIMESJANUARY 2, 2009, 12:51 PM By SEWELL CHAN Andre= as Brown, the last owner of the Gotham Book Mart, readied vintage photos of Arthur Miller and James Joyce in 2004 in preparation for a move to a new location. (Photo: Frances Roberts for The New York Times) Updated, 4:50 p.m. | About 200,000 items from the Gotham Book Mart, which closed in 2007 after 87 years as a New York literary haven of international stature, have been donated to the University of Pennsylvania. An anonymous donor purchased the store's inventory and donated it to the university, which announced the donation on Dec. 18. The holdings =97 primarily modern and contemporary poetry and literature, but also including works on art, architecture, jewelry, music, dance and film =97 will go to Penn's Rare Book and Manuscript Library, which is known for its collection of antiquarian materials from before 1850. Citing experts, The Philadelphia Inquirer reported on Thursday that the collection was valued at several million dollars, but most of the store's inventory was bought at an auction by its landlords for $400,000 in 2007. "We're honored to steward the collection and give it new life as an academi= c resource," H. Carton Rogers, vice provost and director of libraries at the University of Pennsylvania, said in a statement. The collection includes first editions, experimental literary magazines and books from small presses, including "outsider literature" published by Blac= k Sparrow Press and poetry published by St. Mark's Church, the university said. The collection includes "proofs, advance copies, pamphlets, photographs, posters, reference works, catalogs, broadsides, prints and postcards," the university said. There are books from the personal libraries of Truman Capote and Ana=EFs Nin, as well as items signed by Arthur Miller, Tennessee Williams, Robinson Jeffers, Woody Allen, Wallace Stevens and John Updike. The Gotham Book Mart was founded on West 45th Street in 1920 by Frances Steloff. It was the haunt of literary figures like Theodore Dreiser, John Dos Passos= , H. L. Mencken, Arthur Miller, John Updike, J. D. Salinger and Eugene O'Neill. Itexhibited the works of the artist Edward Gorey. Its customers included George and Ira Gershwin, Charlie Chaplin, Alexander Calder, Stephen Spender, Woody Allen, Saul Bellow, John Guare, Katharine Hepburn and Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis. At various points, Allen Ginsberg, LeRoi Jones and Tennessee Williams (for = a day) worked as clerks there. Under Miss Steloff, the store twice moved to larger quarters, but stayed within a two-block area, settling in 1946 at 41 West 47th Street. Miss Steloff sold the Gotham in 1967 to Andreas Brown, another book lover, but continued to live in an apartment on the third floor, above the store, and remained as a working consultant. "Along with its fame and reputation, the Gotham was also a very carefully operated book business," Herbert Mitgang wrote in an obituary of Miss Steloff, who died in 1989 at age 101. "As the owner and the person who paid the salaries, Miss Steloff was demanding, irascible, unwearying and unable to understand why no one else was willing to put as many hours or as much concentration into the store as she did." Beloved as it was, the bookstore had many problems over the years. In 1997, Mr. Brown agreed to pay $1.4 million to Joanne Carson, who had turned over $640,000 in savings to him in 1988 and 1991 to help him buy and repair the brownstone that houses the store. In 1995, she decided she wanted her loan back with interest, and filed suit against him. The Gotham Book Mart's final home, at 16 East 46th Street. (Photo: Tina Fineberg for The New York Times) Mr. Brown said he would pay the money back in 2000, after selling the building. But the sale did not occur until 2003, when Mr. Brown sold the building, a town house in the heart of the diamond district, for $7.2 million. In 2004, the store moved = to the former H. P. Kraus antiquarian bookstore, at 16 East 46th Street, which had closed in 2003. It later emerged that two benefactors who had wished to remain anonymous =97 Leonard A. Lauder, the cosmetics heir, who has an interest in antique postcards, and Edmondo Schwartz, a real estate developer =97 had purchased the East Side building = for $5.2 million and leased it to Mr. Brown to save the Gotham. But by 2006, he had fallen behind on his $51,000 monthly rent and owed at least $500,000 in rent, taxes, interes= t and other fees, and the landlords moved to evict him. The store was on its last legs. In May 2007, many of Gotham's possessions =97 including books signed by Mr. Updike, letters from D. H. Lawrence, and Andy Warhol's wig rack =97 were so= ld at auction to th= e landlords, who bid $400,000. The store's workers had never finished unpacking the books from the 2004 move. The university said that it knew the identity of the donor but that the donor had insisted on anonymity. Mr. Lauder, former chairman of the Est=E9e Lauder Companies, graduated from Penn in 1954 and is an emeritus member of its board of trustees. Jonathan J= . Faust, a lawyer for Mr. Lauder, declined to comment on Mr. Lauder's involvement with Gotham Book Mart. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 23:29:17 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Eireene Nealand Subject: Re: capitalism and the long poem In-Reply-To: <578647560901031147g5f390aa3w2f6b3e3751067d53@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline ps. I should note, though, that at last hear Nate Mackey does consider himself in line with Duncan, or at least has learned much from him. He also teaches a class on H.D. So it's me, making a break, if such is warranted. (now it feels like a legal disclaimer) but I'm not interested in the schools so much as something more like an idea or technique that would help us to think about this seriality thing. and incompletes if that is a part of where it goes. On 1/3/09, Eireene Nealand wrote: > yes, i think this is an important part of it, the interrelated segments-- > --little bits of incompleteness hooking up with other incomplete bits. > > a garland of fragments. (not my own line) > > "Blood Dazzler" sounds great. (and I just looked up a few excerpts--good= too) > > Page duBois wote a little bit about this in "Sappho is Burning" but > maybe she thought that there was more of a person in our times to hold > all of the fragments together. > > Maybe it is just bits of other series that show up in the gaps. > > (but now I'm running off into theory land again). > > Pound, H.D., Olsen, Duncan, okay. > > it's this odd "irreal" hypercapitaism that I'm looking more at. > > Is there anyone that you guys would throw in a line with say, > > Mackey, Spahr, Roberson... > > (will look at more of Patricia Smith) > > That line makes me think more about music and modalities as being ways > of moving around. > > Maybe Spahr is more like Golynko in that there are fewer--what to call > them--monsters--unidentifiable objects on the surface (tho they are > there). > > > e > > > On 1/3/09, carol dorf wrote: > > I think the long poem is often more a poem in interrelated segments -- > > Patricia Smith's "Blood Dazzler" approaches Katrina from numerous > > viewpoints including the Hurricane's. At the opposite end of the > > public/personal scale, Rusty Morrison's "the true keeps calm biding > > its story," is a formal experiment in the nature of the book-length > > poem. > > > > In reading these book-length poems, the individual segments provide a > > way to move through aspects of language/experience. > > > > > > On 1/1/09, Paul Nelson wrote: > > > One of the most fascinating developments of the post-modern era > > > Troy, > > > > > > One of the most fascinating developments of the post-modern era (& = the era > > > since then) is the development (evolution) of the Serial Poem. Robi= n > > > Blaser's 'The Holy Forest' and Nate Mackey's 'Mu' or 'Song of the > > > Andoumbolou' (which together could be considered part of the same p= oem) are > > > two stellar examples of this. These are more recent examples and 'T= he > > > Maximus Poems' and 'Paterson' are other examples and I am sure folk= s on the > > > list could chip in their own favorites. > > > > > > The narrative that emerges is not as obvious and requires more stud= y, more > > > of a commitment than what was previously known as 'epic.' > > > > > > The recognition of these in a mode similar to the epics of the past= is very > > > much a function of this shift in literature, especially after 1945 = (the > > > beginning of the post-modern era) and Jack Spicer's notion gets clo= se to > > > summing it up: > > > > > > =85The trick naturally is what Duncan learned > > > years ago and tried to teach us =96 not to search for the perfect p= oem but to > > > let > > > your way of writing of the moment go along its own paths, explore a= nd > > > retreat > > > but never be fully realized (confined) within the boundaries of one= poem... > > > > > > > > > > > > It's pleasing to be back to actual poetics on the poetics list. > > > > > > Happy New Year. > > > > > > > > > Paul E. Nelson > > > > > > Global Voices Radio > > > SPLAB! > > > American Sentences > > > Organic Poetry > > > Poetry Postcard Blog > > > > > > Ilalqo, WA 253.735.6328 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: Troy Camplin > > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 10:50:09 AM > > > Subject: Re: capitalism and the long poem > > > > > > I think we've become obsessed with it precisely because it's fallen= out of > > > favor. Somebody, or a few people, wondered where it went, and began= writing > > > about it. It seems to me that the long poem became impossible with = the > > > abandonment of narrative by poets. How long can one keep up a feeli= ng or a > > > mood or an "experiment"? Frederick Fierstein writes quite long poem= s, but > > > his poems also have narratives holding them together. Frederick Tur= ner has > > > written two epic poems. It seems that the gradual abandonment of na= rrative > > > in poetry by the Modernists, especially the late Modernists, and th= e > > > postmodern poets, far more than economic conditions, have contribut= ed to the > > > abandonment of long poetry as a form. > > > > > > Troy Camplin > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: Eireene Nealand > > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 1:45:57 PM > > > Subject: capitalism and the long poem > > > > > > I sat down to write a little piece about this Russian poet, and cam= e > > > up with a strange take on the long poem--an idea that the seriality= of > > > it is somehow related to consumer capitalism-- > > > > > > http://tsky-reviews.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > not the pleasantest thought-- > > > > > > and so I was wondering if anyone has any good counter arguments, or > > > different takes on why so many are so obsessed with this form right > > > now. & will we fall out of love with it during the recession? > > > > > > e > > > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check gu= idelines > > > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check gu= idelines > > > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > > > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check gu= idelines > > > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guid= elines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 14:03:39 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: "St. Thomasino" Subject: e=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=B7ratio_?= is reading for issue 12 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) e=B7 e=B7ratio is reading for poetry and for digital art and for whatever =20 cannot be said no to. so click on by and have a look-see. http://www.eratiopostmodernpoetry.com a noun sing e=B7ratio 11 =B7 2008 with poetry by David Appelbaum, Donald Wellman, Mary Ann Sullivan, =20 Joseph F. Keppler, Patrick Lawler, James Stotts, David Annwn, David =20 Rushmer, Melanie Brazzell, Jennifer Juneau, John M. Bennett, Geof =20 Huth, John Mercuri Dooley, Mark Cunningham, Derek Owens, Gautam Verma, =20= and Clark Lunberry http://www.eratiopostmodernpoetry.com edited by gregory vincent st. thomasino e=B7 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 11:21:42 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jim Andrews Subject: hockey violence (was poetry brothel) In-Reply-To: <001101c96dc3$e35c5820$aa150860$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The most popular sport on Earth, soccer/football, rarely involves fighting. The stadiums sometimes seat 150,000, such as in Rio, and the players are paid ten times what hockey players receive. Baseball, also, is more popular, at least in Japan and the United States. The stadiums seat 80,000 and the players are paid ten times what hockey players receive. And, again, fighting is not typical in baseball, and this is true of most other high-profile sports. Hockey, in the USA, is veiwed as a goon show, one step up from all star wrestling. Whereas, in Canada, your point of view is common, John. That pro hockey allows fighting is a business decision. Whether they do or don't permit fighting won't change the general level of popularity of hockey in the USA. It is not going to be as popular as baseball, football, or basketball in the USA regardless of whether fighting is permitted. It's not their game. But, with fighting permitted, the owners do better financially than they would otherwise. One of these days a lawyer is going to successfully prosecute a case which arises out of on-ice violence. To the tune of millions of dollars in damages against an NHL club and its personnel. Only then will the business men rethink their business decision. In the meantime, the code lends not only hockey but Canadian society an annoying, slightly retarded thugishness. I was sorry to hear of the death of Don Sanderson from a hockey fight. Unfortunately he won't be the last. I have been watching the world junior tournament. It's been very hard-hitting, tough, fast, exciting hockey--more exciting, I would say, than NHL hockey--and there is hardly any fighting. I don't miss it a bit. In fact the last few games in that tournament I've watched (Canada-Russia, Canada-USA, USA-Slovakia, Slovakia-Sweden) have been some of the most thrilling hockey games I've ever seen. And just about entirely without fisticuffs. ja http://vispo.com >A very interesting and relevant response, Richard. I was watching the news > yesterday and noted that a young man was killed as a result of a hockey > fight. The newscaster implied that only a limited sector of the hockey > audience was interested in watching hockey fights. My first thought was, > "Bullshit!". That's part and parcel of being a hockey player and it's > never > going to change. The male stereotype is one of power and strength, of > laughing in the face of danger. Would anyone be interested in watching > people drive cars around an oval track if not for the expectation of > accidents? Isn't that one of the reasons why tennis, which demands a > damned > sight more athletic ability than football or, perhaps, hockey, not as > popular a sport? Although golf and baseball and watching grass grow are > pretty popular, aren't they? > John Herbert Cunningham ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 14:39:47 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Kyle Schlesinger Subject: ON LAUNCH at The Poetry Project NYC ON Monday January 5th @ 8:00 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit ON LAUNCH Poetry Project Monday January 5th, 2009 @ 8:00 ON features twenty-one essays by poets on poets of their approximate generation. Come find out what's going on and celebrate this new publication featuring exchanges on contemporary poetry and poetics. Contributors include Taylor Brady, Brandon Brown, CAConrad, Jason Christie, Michael Cross, Thom Donovan, Eli Drabman, Rob Halpern, Jen Hofer, Alan Gilbert, Brenda Iijima, Andrew Levy, Edric Mesmer, Sawako Nakayasu, Tenney Nathanson, Richard Owens, Tim Peterson, Andrew Rippeon, Kyle Schlesinger, Jonathan Skinner, Dale Smith, Suzanne Stein, Ali Warren, Katie Yeats ON Arakawa/Gins, Taylor Brady, CAConrad, Michael Cross, Beverly Dahlen, Michael deBeyer, Mark Dickinson, kari edwards, DJ/Rupture, Thom Donovan, Belle Gironda, Brenda Iijima, CJ Martin, Emily McVarish, Yedda Morrison, Hoa Nguyen, Sawako Nakayasu, Julie Patton, Lauren Shufran, Suzanne Stein, Dana Ward, and Ali Warren. Confirmed readers include CAConrad, Thom Donovan, Alan Gilbert, Brenda Iijima, Julie Patton, Tim Peterson, Andrew Levy, Kyle Schlesinger and Katie Yates. Copies of ON will be available for $12. Also available from Small Press Distribution: http://spdbooks.org and Cuneiform Press: http://www.cuneiformpress.com Submission guidelines and more available at: http://oncontemporaries.wordpress.com The Poetry Project is located at St. Mark's Church-in-the-Bowery 131 East 10th Street at Second Avenue New York City 10003 Trains: 6, F, N, R, and L. info@poetryproject.com www.poetryproject.com Admission is $8, $7 for students/seniors and $5 for members (though now those who take out a membership at $95 or higher will get in FREE to all regular readings). We are wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. For more info call 212-674-0910. Forthcoming at the Poetry Project: Wednesday January 7th at 8pm Mitch Highfill & Katy Lederer Monday January 12th at 8pm Cyrus Console & Jessica Dessner ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 14:20:06 -0800 Reply-To: poet_in_hell@yahoo.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve russell Subject: Re: capitalism and the long poem In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20090103104832.078265f8@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable & Berryman/ Dream Songs. what to cALL IT? agony, soap sonnets??? --- On Sat, 1/3/09, Mark Weiss wrote: From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: capitalism and the long poem To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Saturday, January 3, 2009, 10:51 AM Putting aside the dubiousness of the term post modern and the assignment of dates to it, Pound was writing the serial poem that was the acknowledged mo= del for Olson and Duncan well before 1945, and Rimbaud was doing it even earlie= r. It shouldn't be difficult to come up with a few more, but I have to run out th= e door--promises to keep, restless horses, etc. Mark At 08:16 AM 1/1/2009, you wrote: > One of the most fascinating developments of the post-modern era > Troy, One of the most fascinating developments of the post-modern era (& the era since then) is the development (evolution) of the Serial Poem. Robin Blaser's 'The Holy Forest' and Nate Mackey's 'Mu' or 'Song of the Andoumbolou' (which together could be considered part of the same poem) are two stellar examples of this. These are more recent exam= ples and 'The Maximus Poems' and 'Paterson' are other examples and I am sure folks on the list could chip in their own favorites. The narrative = that emerges is not as obvious and requires more study, more of a commitment tha= n what was previously known as 'epic.' The recognition of these in a mode similar to the epics of the past is very much a function of this shift in literature, especially after 1945 (the beginning of the post-modern era) an= d Jack Spicer's notion gets close to summing it up: =85The trick naturally is what Duncan learned years ago and tried to teach us =AD not to search for t= he perfect poem but to let your way of writing of the moment go along its own paths, explore and retreat but never be fully realized (confined) within th= e boundaries of one poem... It's pleasing to be back to actual poetics on the poetics list. Happy New Year. Paul E. Nelson Global Voices Radio SPLAB! Ame= rican Sentences Organic Poetry Poetry Postcard Blog Ilalqo, WA 253.735.6328 ________________________________ From: Troy Camplin To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 10:50:09 AM Subject: Re: capitalism and the long poem I t= hink we've become obsessed with it precisely because it's fallen out of favor. Somebody, or a few people, wondered where it went, and began writing about it. It seems to me that the long poem became impossible with the abandonment of narrative by poets. How long can one keep up a feeling or a = mood or an "experiment"? Frederick Fierstein writes quite long poems, but his poems also have narratives holding them together. Frederick Turner has written two epic poems. It seems that the gradual abandonment of narrative = in poetry by the Modernists, especially the late Modernists, and the postmoder= n poets, far more than economic conditions, have contributed to the abandonme= nt of long poetry as a form. Troy Camplin ________________________________ From: Eireene Nealand To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 1:45:57 PM Subject: capitalism and the long poem = I sat down to write a little piece about this Russian poet, and came up with a st= range take on the long poem--an idea that the seriality of it is somehow related = to consumer capitalism-- http://tsky-reviews.blogspot.com/ not the pleasantest thought-- and so I was wondering if anyone has any good counter arguments, = or different takes on why so many are so obsessed with this form right now. & will we fall out of love with it during the recession? e =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 16:55:01 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: { brad brace } Subject: Reflected-Light --> Remaining-Days Comments: To: fluxlist@yahoogroups.com Comments: cc: noisetext digest subscribers In-Reply-To: <1231111008.1285.95714.m42@yahoogroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII http://bbrace.net/R/Reflected-Light.html Reflected-Light Reflected-Moonshine Reflecting-Power Reflecting-Rails Reflections-Just-Here Reflex-Action Reflexive-Immersion Reflexive-Recoil Refreshing-Calm Refreshing-Juice Refuse-Resurrections Refuse-Rocks Refused-Admission Regaining-Respect Regal-Gleam Regal-Incognito Regal-Process Regal-Profusion Regally-Adorned Regimented-Rows Region-Remains Regional-Flavor Regional-Ramifications Registering-Resolution Regret-and-Remorse Regretted-Recognition Regular-Attendance Regular-Circle Regular-Fare Regular-Features Regular-Functionality Regular-Intervals Regular-Little-Peach Regular-Manifestations Regular-Meals Regular-Network Regular-Recluse Regular-Returning Regular-Rhythm Regular-Seasons Regular-System Regular-Tinkle Regular-Turns Regularly-Renew Regulated-Beforehand Reign-Supreme Reigning-Monarch Reigning-Sovereigns Reignited-Satisfaction Rejoicing-Inwardly Rejuvenating-Allusion Rejuvenating-Refreshment Relatively-Established-Demand Relatively-Rapidly Relatively-Recent Relaxed-Tone Relay-Race Relentless-Kinetic-Thrust Relentless-Necessity Relentless-Pain Relentless-Profusion Relentless-Pummelling Relentless-Rush Relevant-Distinction Relevant-Nuance Reliable-Particle-Count Reliable-Regular Relief-Effort Relief-Flooding Relief-Thronging Religious-Anxiety Religious-Folds Religious-Invective Religious-Obligations Religious-Rite Reluctant-Particles Reluctant-Shake Reluctant-Traces Remained-External Remained-Hidden Remained-Kneeling Remaining-Days http://bbrace.net/R/Reflected-Light.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 20:39:45 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: photos from MLA off-site reading MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 photos of pretty much everybody whose last name comes after Giscombe now up at the heatstrings blog for your inspection: <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> "Study the fine art of coming apart." --Jerry W. Ward, Jr. Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 18:40:26 -0800 Reply-To: moonpathpress@yahoo.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Lana Ayers Subject: Call for Poetry Postcard participants MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Poet,=20 =A0=20 Call for participants to the 2009 Poetry Postcard Project inspired by Organ= ic poetry Guy Paul Nelson =A0http://organicpoetry.com/=20 =A0=20 =A0Come join the fun.=20 =A0=20 Just imagine going to your mailbox and finding a postcard in it with a few = lines of verse among all your bills and advertisements.=A0=A0Would that mak= e you day?=20 =A0=20 What=A2s involved:=A0=20 =A0=20 Write a poem on a postcard once a week, every week and mail it to someone o= n the list.=20 =A0=20 Don=A2t agonize over what to write, just jot a few lines and send.=A0 It sh= ould be fun and easy.=A0 Write about where your are, write about the postca= rd image, get inspiration from postcards you=A2ve received.=A0 Remember you= have an eager and enthusiastic audience waiting for your words.=20 =A0=20 How to get started?=A0 Go to http://ConcreteWolf.com/perennial and Register= ..=A0 Once you register you can add your address info and join the list.=A0 = Please make sure your address info shows up correctly on the list.=20 =A0=20 Be sure to check postage rates at http://USPS.com before mailing oversized = cards or mailing to other countries.=20 =A0=20 Any questions?=A0 email Lana at Lana.ayers@yahoo.com=20 =A0=20 Happy 2009,=20 =A0=20 Lana =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 21:45:43 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: sound file from MLA off-site reading In-Reply-To: 1231119585l.639048l.0l@psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > This link will take you to a downloadable MP3 file from this year's MLA reading -- I'm sorry to say that I arrived late due to a prior commitment, and that my batteries ran out before the end (the replacement batteries having been mistakenly discarded by an over-eager table clearer at the previous event) -- > So, this is roughly everybody from GORDON through ROTHENBERG -- the link will be active for downloading for the next seven days and will then vanish -- > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> "Study the fine art of coming apart." --Jerry W. Ward, Jr. Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 22:42:35 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit not disallowing but criticizing--one's metaphors are important info. On 1/1/09 10:09 AM, "Adam Tobin" wrote: > I don't think it's puritan moralizing to criticize prostitution; I > think it's puritan moralizing to disallow its use as a metaphor. > > > On Dec 31, 2008, at 5:43 PM, Ruth Lepson wrote: > >> sick of men saying it's puritan moralizing to criticize prostitution. >> whether it shd be legal or not is a complicated question. but I make >> no >> judgment about prostitutes. if anything, I wish the world could hold >> them in >> its arms in a loving way to counteract all they suffer. >> >> >> On 12/31/08 4:33 PM, "Adam Tobin" wrote: >> >>> >>> Here's an interesting article, for those who are interested, about >>> a more >>> useful approach to bettering the terrible conditions of brothels: >>> forming a >>> prostitutes' union. >>> http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=the-prostitutes-union >>> >>> I think as long as every mention of prostitution brings up just so >>> much >>> puritan moralizing, pimps and their bosses will continue to operate >>> with >>> impunity, out of the sight of polite society. Meanwhile police >>> continue to >>> fine and jail the women, in order to keep them out of sight of the >>> neighbors >>> whose real estate values they would otherwise >>> lower.tp://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>> >>> ================================== >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>> guidelines & >>> sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 22:44:08 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory In-Reply-To: <001301c96c44$07fac260$17f04720$@net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit it wasn't you who said that, I believe--been away so may be confused. thanks for your note. ruth On 1/1/09 2:06 PM, "John Cunningham" wrote: > I never once ever remotely indicated that prostitution shouldn't be > criticized, Ruth. I certainly do agree, separate and apart from the idea of > puritan moralizing, that prostitution should be legalized and run in a > humane manner where the health and safety of the women engaged in the > practice are one of the paramount concerns. Prostitution has been with us > forever and will continue to be with us forever. So, it certainly makes > sense to respond to this in a manner that takes this into account. Hasn't > your country learned from its experience with prohibition. The only thing > that it accomplished through criminalization is to support organized crime > and increase the need for a larger police force. Here in Canada, our > Neo-Conservative Party, has goosestepped its way it thinking that all the > evil in the world has been unleashed by having a safe injection site in > Vancouver. Ah, the folly of modern government and society. > John Herbert Cunningham > > -----Original Message----- > From: Poetics List (UPenn, UB) [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > Behalf Of Ruth Lepson > Sent: December-31-08 4:43 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory > > sick of men saying it's puritan moralizing to criticize prostitution. > whether it shd be legal or not is a complicated question. but I make no > judgment about prostitutes. if anything, I wish the world could hold them in > its arms in a loving way to counteract all they suffer. > > > On 12/31/08 4:33 PM, "Adam Tobin" wrote: > >> >> Here's an interesting article, for those who are interested, about a more >> useful approach to bettering the terrible conditions of brothels: forming > a >> prostitutes' union. >> http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=the-prostitutes-union >> >> I think as long as every mention of prostitution brings up just so much >> puritan moralizing, pimps and their bosses will continue to operate with >> impunity, out of the sight of polite society. Meanwhile police continue > to >> fine and jail the women, in order to keep them out of sight of the > neighbors >> whose real estate values they would otherwise >> lower.tp://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & >> sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 23:22:31 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Gotham Book Mart Holdings Are Given to Penn In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It was a great bookstore to browse in, and very=20 receptive to small presses, accepting books on=20 consignment. Part of its business plan was never=20 to pay for the books if sold or return them if=20 not. I guess that somwewhat tempers my grief at Gotham's passing. Mark At 12:20 AM 1/4/2009, you wrote: >from NY TIMESJANUARY 2, 2009, 12:51 PM >By SEWELL CHAN= Andreas >Brown, the last owner of the Gotham Book Mart, readied vintage photos of >Arthur Miller and James Joyce in 2004 in preparation for a move to a new >location. (Photo: Frances Roberts for The New York Times) > >Updated, 4:50 p.m. | About 200,000 items from the Gotham Book Mart, which >closed in 2007 after 87 years as a New York literary haven of international >stature, have been >donated to >the University of Pennsylvania. > >An anonymous donor purchased the store's inventory and donated it to the >university, which announced the donation on Dec. 18. The holdings =97 >primarily modern and contemporary poetry and literature, but also including >works on art, architecture, jewelry, music, dance and film =97 will go to >Penn's Rare Book and Manuscript Library, which is known for its collection >of antiquarian materials from before 1850. Citing experts, The Philadelphia >Inquirer reported on Thursday that the collection was valued at several >million=20 >dollars, >but most of the store's inventory was bought at an auction by its landlords >for $400,000 in 2007. > >"We're honored to steward the collection and give it new life as an= academic >resource," H. Carton Rogers, vice provost and director of libraries at the >University of Pennsylvania, said in a statement. > >The collection includes first editions, experimental literary magazines and >books from small presses, including "outsider literature" published by= Black >Sparrow Press and poetry published by St. Mark's Church, the university >said. > >The collection includes "proofs, advance copies, pamphlets, photographs, >posters, reference works, catalogs, broadsides, prints and postcards," the >university said. There are books from the personal libraries of Truman >Capote > and Ana=EFs=20 >= Nin, >as well as items signed by Arthur Miller, Tennessee Williams, Robinson >Jeffers, Woody Allen, Wallace Stevens and John Updike. > >The Gotham Book Mart was founded on West 45th Street in 1920 by Frances >Steloff. >It was the haunt of literary figures like Theodore Dreiser, John Dos= Passos, >H. L. Mencken, Arthur Miller, John Updike, J. D. Salinger and Eugene >O'Neill.=20 >Itexhibited >the >works of the artist Edward Gorey. Its customers included George and Ira >Gershwin, Charlie Chaplin, Alexander Calder, Stephen Spender, Woody Allen, >Saul Bellow, John Guare, Katharine Hepburn and Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis. >At various points, Allen Ginsberg, LeRoi Jones and Tennessee Williams (for= a >day) worked as clerks there. > >Under Miss Steloff, the store twice moved to larger quarters, but stayed >within a two-block area, settling in 1946 at 41 West 47th Street. Miss >Steloff sold the >Gotham >in >1967 to Andreas Brown, another book lover, but continued to live in an >apartment on the third floor, above the store, and remained as a working >consultant. > >"Along with its fame and reputation, the Gotham was also a very carefully >operated book business," Herbert Mitgang wrote in an >obituary > of Miss=20 >= Steloff, >who died in 1989 at age 101. "As the owner and the person who paid the >salaries, Miss Steloff was demanding, irascible, unwearying and unable to >understand why no one else was willing to put as many hours or as much >concentration into the store as she did." > >Beloved as it was, the bookstore had many problems over the years. In 1997, >Mr. Brown agreed to pay $1.4 >million >to >Joanne Carson, who had turned over $640,000 in savings to him in 1988 and >1991 to help him buy and repair the brownstone that houses the store. In >1995, she decided she wanted her loan back with interest, and filed >suit >against >him. >The Gotham Book Mart's final home, at 16 East 46th Street. (Photo: Tina >Fineberg for The New York Times) > >Mr. Brown said he would pay the money back in 2000, after selling the >building. But the sale did not occur until 2003, when Mr. Brown sold the >building, >a town house in the heart of the diamond district, for $7.2 million. In >2004, the store moved = to >the former H. P. Kraus antiquarian bookstore, at 16 East 46th >Street, >which had closed in 2003. > >It later emerged that two benefactors who had wished to remain >anonymous =97 Leonard >A.=20 >Lauder, >the cosmetics heir, who has an interest in antique postcards, and Edmondo >Schwartz, a real estate developer =97 had purchased the East Side building= for >$5.2 million and leased it to Mr. Brown to save the Gotham. But by 2006, he >had fallen=20 >behind >on >his $51,000 monthly rent and owed at least $500,000 in rent, taxes,= interest >and other fees, and the landlords moved to evict him. The store was on its >last legs. > >In May 2007, many of Gotham's possessions =97 including books signed by Mr. >Updike, letters from D. H. Lawrence, and Andy Warhol's wig rack =97 were= sold >at auction to= the >landlords, who bid $400,000. The store's workers had never finished >unpacking the books from the 2004 move. > >The university said that it knew the identity of the donor but that the >donor had insisted on anonymity. > >Mr. Lauder, former chairman of the Est=E9e Lauder Companies, graduated from >Penn in 1954 and is an emeritus member of its board of trustees. Jonathan= J. >Faust, a lawyer for Mr. Lauder, declined to comment on Mr. Lauder's >involvement with Gotham Book Mart. > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept=20 >all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info:=20 >http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 20:55:01 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Small Press Traffic Subject: Small Press Traffic's Annual Poets Theater -- 3 Glorious Nights: January 16th, 23rd, & 30th MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline *SMALL PRESS TRAFFIC'S POETS THEATER FEST 09* Please join us for our annual fundraiser =97 three nights of innovative performance, theater, & video works: *JANUARY 16, 2009 * Short plays by Raymond Pettibon, Bhanu Kapil, Stan Apps, Daniil Kharms, Wendy Kramer, Tetra Balestri & more! *JANUARY 23, 2009 * Longer plays by Leslie Scalapino, Vanessa Place, & surprise play "TBA" * JANUARY 30, 2009 * Inter-media work & videos by Linh Dinh, Heriberto Y=E9pez, Konrad Steiner, Henry Hills, Paolo Javier & Dennis Somera, Ariana Reines, Dillon Westbrook, Karla Milosevich, Cassie Riger & Amanda Davidson, Bill Luoma, Claudia Rankine & more! All shows start at 7:30 pm sharp. Refreshments will be served. $10 donation -- Don't miss it! Timken Hall, California College of the Arts 1111 8th Street, San Francisco To volunteer please email poetstheater@gmail.com For more information on SPT's spring 2009 programs: www.sptraffic.org or smallpresstraffic.blogspot.com We'll see you Fridays! ____________________________ Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center at CCA 1111 -- 8th Street San Francisco, CA 94107 415.551.9278 http://www.sptraffic.org www.smallpresstraffic.blogspot.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 23:27:35 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: John Cunningham Subject: Re: hockey violence (was poetry brothel) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I completely agree with you. Which doesn't change my opinion any that professional sports and prostitution have certain commonalities. john -----Original Message----- From: Poetics List (UPenn, UB) [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Jim Andrews Sent: January-04-09 1:22 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: hockey violence (was poetry brothel) The most popular sport on Earth, soccer/football, rarely involves fighting. The stadiums sometimes seat 150,000, such as in Rio, and the players are paid ten times what hockey players receive. Baseball, also, is more popular, at least in Japan and the United States. The stadiums seat 80,000 and the players are paid ten times what hockey players receive. And, again, fighting is not typical in baseball, and this is true of most other high-profile sports. Hockey, in the USA, is veiwed as a goon show, one step up from all star wrestling. Whereas, in Canada, your point of view is common, John. That pro hockey allows fighting is a business decision. Whether they do or don't permit fighting won't change the general level of popularity of hockey in the USA. It is not going to be as popular as baseball, football, or basketball in the USA regardless of whether fighting is permitted. It's not their game. But, with fighting permitted, the owners do better financially than they would otherwise. One of these days a lawyer is going to successfully prosecute a case which arises out of on-ice violence. To the tune of millions of dollars in damages against an NHL club and its personnel. Only then will the business men rethink their business decision. In the meantime, the code lends not only hockey but Canadian society an annoying, slightly retarded thugishness. I was sorry to hear of the death of Don Sanderson from a hockey fight. Unfortunately he won't be the last. I have been watching the world junior tournament. It's been very hard-hitting, tough, fast, exciting hockey--more exciting, I would say, than NHL hockey--and there is hardly any fighting. I don't miss it a bit. In fact the last few games in that tournament I've watched (Canada-Russia, Canada-USA, USA-Slovakia, Slovakia-Sweden) have been some of the most thrilling hockey games I've ever seen. And just about entirely without fisticuffs. ja http://vispo.com >A very interesting and relevant response, Richard. I was watching the news > yesterday and noted that a young man was killed as a result of a hockey > fight. The newscaster implied that only a limited sector of the hockey > audience was interested in watching hockey fights. My first thought was, > "Bullshit!". That's part and parcel of being a hockey player and it's > never > going to change. The male stereotype is one of power and strength, of > laughing in the face of danger. Would anyone be interested in watching > people drive cars around an oval track if not for the expectation of > accidents? Isn't that one of the reasons why tennis, which demands a > damned > sight more athletic ability than football or, perhaps, hockey, not as > popular a sport? Although golf and baseball and watching grass grow are > pretty popular, aren't they? > John Herbert Cunningham ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 06:02:36 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: blacksox@ATT.NET Subject: It's almost 1st Tuesday MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Orlando Poetry Group presents: 1st Tuesdays @ The Daily Grind 3060 S.R. 436 Suite 100 APOPKA, FL 32703 407-774-7463 =20 Proudly Featuring Terry Godbey Terry Godbey, whose chapbook "Behind Every Door" was published in 2006, and= won Slipstream=E2=80=99s 19th Annual Poetry Chapbook Competition. Began = writing poetry in earnest in 1999, inspired by her son=E2=80=99s fascinatio= n with trains. Since then she has published more than 90 poems in literary = magazines including "Poet Lore," "Rosebud," "Potomac Review," "CALYX Journa= l," "Rattle," "The Cafe Review," "Slipstream" and "Pearl." She is a copy e= ditor at the =E2=80=98Orlando Sentinel=E2=80=99 and lives in Maitland Flori= da January 6 @ 7:30 pm =20 Hosted By Russ Golata blacksox@att.net 407-403-5814 =20 A very special evening with Terry Godbey=20 Followed by Apopka=E2=80=99s fastest growing Open Mic =20 Don=E2=80=99t miss Terry Godbey=20 Only YOU can make this night special Please join us =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:07:25 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Sharon Mesmer/David Borchart Subject: Re: OPEN LETTER to Rick Warren's new friend Melissa Etheridge In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit CA, I really hope you sent both this one and the one to Elizabeth Alexander to them! On Jan 3, 2009, at 4:32 PM, CA Conrad wrote: > Dear Melissa Etheridge, it seemed like good news that you had met > with > Pastor Rick Warren to confront him on his homophobic disinformation > campaign. It makes sense that many thoughtful, open-minded people are > thinking that your meeting with Warren made for a good, productive > meeting > of the minds. Many of these same people worked VERY HARD to get > Mr. Obama > elected, so the idea of him CHOOSING an openly homophobic anti-Semite > like Warren to give "the blessing" at his inauguration to set the > spiritual > tone of his presidency is a very difficult thing to wrap our minds > around. > Our feeling of betrayal is appropriate. > > To be honest Melissa I have no idea how much experience you have with > Fundamentalist Christians, but they're called FUNDAMENTALIST for a > reason. > When you say you are interested in peace I don't doubt you for a > minute. > But when you say we should volunteer to be more visible it's > nothing but > weird to me. Your direct quote is, "Maybe if they get to know us, > they > won't fear us." But we queers don't grow on trees on a faraway > island. > Fundamentalist Christians deal with us all the time because live in > their > towns. They gave birth to us, we are in their families, and we > don't need > to visit because we're already there. They know us and we know > them, quite > well. > > From my own experience and understanding with Fundamentalist Christian > relatives, there are some who will not allow me to use their towels or > toilets because I'm queer. You wouldn't be allowed to either, no > matter how > many CDs you've sold. Never mind gay marriage, you can't take a > shit! And > these are people who LOVED me dearly when I was a boy. I FELT > their love, > and remember it well. And I also remember how painful it was to > let them > know I was queer, having grown up hearing their sadistic vitriol. My > options were to hide or come out. Hiding is an option only for the > true > masochist, and I am not one. A relative said to me, "You were such > a handsome boy, we had such hope for you." In an instant I became > someone > who was now ugly and without hope. > > If I die tomorrow some members of my family will say, "We know > where he's > headed!" These are extremely unreasonable and uncompromising > people, and > their bible backs them up one hundred percent. I've read these > passages, > I've had them read to me. Queers are an abomination, period. We > can serve > all the soup in the world to all the homeless of the world but > we're still > going to Hell. The bible says so, period. And Rick Warren can say > Jews and > queers are going to Hell as gently as he can, but he still says it, > and in > doing so he makes Jews and queers subhuman animals not worthy of God's > love. We are refuse, and THAT is the very kind of philosophy which > encouraged Aaron McKinney to torture and murder Matthew Shepard. > THAT is > the very philosophy which permitted Roland Button to run over Erika > Keels > four times with his car, and the very philosophy that made her so > invisible > and inhuman that Philadelphia police wrote her death down as an > accident, which remains classified an accident to this day. > Despite the > medical examiner's report, despite witnesses, despite petitions and > marching > and demonstrating on behalf of this 20-year old African American > transwoman, > her murderer has never stood trial, see this: > http://www.petitiononline.com/ErikaK/ > > My boyfriend Earth was murdered in Tennessee. His twin brother who > still > lives in Philadelphia told me his hands were tied behind his back, > he was > dowsed with gasoline and set on fire. Over and over I asked, "HOW > could > they do this!!!!? HOW could they do this!!!!?" But we all know > how, we > know exactly how. Whoever murdered him was able to find the necessary > apathy from a legacy of hate, a legacy of PERMISSION, handed down from > church to church, quoting verse to sanction and spur their actions. > > In Adolf Hitler's Germany the clergy who used the pulpit to spread > hatred of > Jews and Homosexuals were doing so to ease the troubled conscience, > to act > as a link to the voice of God to ORDAIN The Holocaust. Ask > yourself how > guilty are these men who used their positions of respect and their > aura of > holiness to push their trusting congregations to commit such > atrocities? > > Rick Warren is the author of one of the best-selling hardcover > books in > publishing history. And this is a country where he should be > allowed to > express himself freely, but so should we be allowed to counter it, > to let > the voice of reason break through. Millions of people trust and > absorb > Warren's message that Jews will burn in Hell, and that queers are > not FIT to > be treated the same as decent heterosexual Christians. Melissa why > do you > ask US to volunteer in his church? Why not ask these Fundamentalist > Christians to volunteer at gay community centers and the queer suicide > hotlines? Instead of asking US to show how worthy we are, how > about they be > asked to prove their worthiness for a change? It is WRONG to > grovel up to > them for acceptance, for these are the people who pushed US away in > the > first place, remember? The compromises they demand of us are too > expensive > and would eat us alive. > > We need to be LOUD and be LOUD NOW, not to get through to the > people who > have shunned us and discarded us, but for the young queer people > growing up > in these repressive, dangerous families. We need to prevent yet more > suicides. And it would be nice to prevent gay bashing and murders, > but > that's a whole long battle which involves centuries of permission > to undo. > Did you see the movie Borat? The people being interviewed in the > film were > not actors. There's a man at a rodeo scene who says without > hesitation into > the camera that "we're working on" being able to hang queers here > like they > do in Borat's country. The man openly admires hanging queers > elsewhere in > the world. Some days THE ONLY THING keeping these bloodthirsty > people in > check in America is their fear of prison and the electric chair, > and some > days that's all we queers have between our lives and the grave. > > In "Homosexuality and Marxism," the great American poet Jack Spicer > wrote: > > Homosexuality is essentially being alone. Which is a fight > against the > capitalist bosses who do not want us to be alone. Alone we are > dangerous. > Our dissatisfaction could ruin America. Our love could ruin the > universe if we let it. > > Thank you Jack, for that! This ruin to me is transformative, is the > Phoenix, and feels nothing less than essential for love to DEMAND its > increase. Melissa please don't ask us to prove that we're good > people, > because if we have to prove it, then how good are the people asking > us to > prove it? And frankly I'm VERY GLAD that Barak Obama won and not John > McCain and Sarah Palin, but at the same time Obama is LUCKY I > didn't know he > would CHOOSE Rick Warren's blessing BEFORE election day. You'll > see me at > the inauguration, I'll be the one with the sign that says, "YOU'RE > LUCKY I > CAN'T TAKE MY VOTE BACK!" > > For all those who have suffered and continue to suffer, we must > remember Dr. > Martin Luther King's words, "The time is always right to do what is > right." > > Most sincerely, > poet CAConrad > > http://PhillySound.blogspot.com > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/ > welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:46:00 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Gwyn McVay Subject: Re: hockey violence (was poetry brothel) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 2:21 PM, Jim Andrews wrote: > In the meantime, the code lends not only hockey but Canadian society an > annoying, slightly retarded thugishness. > Oh my God, we did not just go there in the derailment of brothel metaphors into sports, did we? Because some of the least thuggish athletes I've met were people I got to know while working at the DC headquarters of Special Olympics International. I mean, people on this thread are very politely avoiding saying "That's so gay" in part because they know that there are gay people on this list and that CA Conrad, among others, would stomp a mudhole of rhetoric in the rhetorical ass of the first person to do so. But because we're all hip hip hip hip hip and intellectual, we just absolutely know that nobody is going to object to the casual slinging of the term "retarded" for people who may or may not in fact have mental retardation, right? How edgy, sir. How totally edgy. Gwyn "Person of Alternative Skeletal Alignment" McVay, off to download and test some crippleware ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 08:52:20 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Cara Benson Subject: Sous Rature 2ssue is online MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://www.necessetics.com/2ssue.ht= (sorry for triple announcements...=0A=0Ahttp://www.necessetics.com/2ssue.ht= ml=0A=0Ais now online=0A=0Afeaturing the fabulous conviviations of=0A=0AIn = chro(no)logical order=0A=0ABernadette Mayer=0ANico Vassilakis=0ABrooklyn Co= peland=0AMaria Williams-Russell=0APeter Ciccariello=0AWilliam Allegrezza=0A= David-Baptiste Chirot=0ARodrigo Toscano=0AChristophe Casamassima=0AJames Sa= nders=0ABarry Schwabsky=0AMichelle Naka Pierce=0Aw/ Sue Hammond West=0AAlex= ander Jorgensen=0ACelina Su=0AMatina Stamatakis=0AAmy King=0ABill Marsh=0AB= renda Hillman=0ACharles Bernstein=0ASamit Roy=0AStacy Szymaszek=0APaul Hoov= er=0ASawako Nakayasu=0AThomas Devaney=0ASparrow=0A=0A=A0=0A=A0=0A=0A=0A____= ______=0A=0Ahttp://www.necessetics.com=0A=0Ahttp://www.necessetics.com/sous= rature.html=0A=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 09:59:52 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Paul Nelson Subject: Re: capitalism and the long poem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ________________________________ From: George Bowering =0ATo: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=0ASent: Saturday, January 3, 20= 09 12:16:03 PM=0ASubject: Re: capitalism and the long poem=0A=0ACharles Ols= on as a writer of the serial poem?=0AI wish we could hear Jack Spicer's res= ponse to that notion!=0A=0Agb=0A=0AGeorge,=0A=0AWhat would be your guess, s= ince you studied with Jack?=0A=0APaul=0A=0A=0AOn Jan 3, 2009, at 7:51 AM, M= ark Weiss wrote:=0A=0A> Putting aside the dubiousness of the term post mode= rn and the assignment of dates to it, Pound was writing the serial poem tha= t was the acknowledged model for Olson and Duncan well before 1945, and Rim= baud was doing it even earlier. It shouldn't be difficult to come up with a= few more, but I have to run out the door--promises to keep, restless horse= s, etc.=0A> =0A> Mark=0A> =0A> =0A> At 08:16 AM 1/1/2009, you wrote:=0A>> O= ne of the most fascinating developments of the post-modern era=0A>> Troy, O= ne of the most fascinating developments of the post-modern era (& the era s= ince then) is the development (evolution) of the Serial Poem. Robin Blaser'= s 'The Holy Forest' and Nate Mackey's 'Mu' or 'Song of the Andoumbolou' (wh= ich together could be considered part of the same poem) are two stellar exa= mples of this. These are more recent examples and 'The Maximus Poems' and '= Paterson' are other examples and I am sure folks on the list could chip in = their own favorites. The narrative that emerges is not as obvious and requi= res more study, more of a commitment than what was previously known as 'epi= c.' The recognition of these in a mode similar to the epics of the past is = very much a function of this shift in literature, especially after 1945 (th= e beginning of the post-modern era) and Jack Spicer's notion gets close to = summing it up: =85The trick naturally is what Duncan learned years ago and = tried to teach us not to search for the perfect poem but to let your way of writing of the moment go along its own paths, explore a= nd retreat but never be fully realized (confined) within the boundaries of = one poem... It's pleasing to be back to actual poetics on the poetics list.= Happy New Year. Paul E. Nelson Global Voices Radio SPLAB! American Sentenc= es Organic Poetry Poetry Postcard Blog Ilalqo, WA 253.735.6328 ____________= ____________________ From: Troy Camplin To: POETICS= @LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 10:50:09 AM Subject:= Re: capitalism and the long poem I think we've become obsessed with it pre= cisely because it's fallen out of favor. Somebody, or a few people, wondere= d where it went, and began writing about it. It seems to me that the long p= oem became impossible with the abandonment of narrative by poets. How long = can one keep up a feeling or a mood or an "experiment"? Frederick Fierstein= writes quite long poems, but his poems also have narratives holding them together. Frederick Turner has written two epic poems. It seems that = the gradual abandonment of narrative in poetry by the Modernists, especiall= y the late Modernists, and the postmodern poets, far more than economic con= ditions, have contributed to the abandonment of long poetry as a form. Troy= Camplin ________________________________ From: Eireene Nealand To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 1= :45:57 PM Subject: capitalism and the long poem I sat down to write a littl= e piece about this Russian poet, and came up with a strange take on the lon= g poem--an idea that the seriality of it is somehow related to consumer cap= italism-- http://tsky-reviews.blogspot.com/ not the pleasantest thought-- a= nd so I was wondering if anyone has any good counter arguments, or differen= t takes on why so many are so obsessed with this form right now. & will we = fall out of love with it during the recession? e =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not acc= ept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/po= etics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is modera= ted & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://= epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A>> =0A>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =0A>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guid= elines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A> = =0A> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A> The Poetics List is moderated & does = not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo= .edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A> =0A=0AGB=0AIs currently imagining the univers= e.=0A=0A=0A=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0AThe Poetics List is moderated & d= oes not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buf= falo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 12:46:59 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Michael Kelleher Subject: Literary Buffalo Newsletter 01.05.09-01.11.09 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=UTF-8 LITERARY BUFFALO 01.05.09-01.11.09 HAPPY NEW YEAR=21 If you haven?t yet given to the year-end campaign, it?s not too late=21 To make donation, please visit our website: http://www.justbuffalo.org/index.php?task=3Dview&id=3D45 You can also donate over the phone by calling 832.5400. Or you can send a c= heck or money order to Just Buffalo Literary Center, 617 Main St., Suite 20= 2A, Buffalo, NY 14203. EVENTS THIS WEEK Visit the Literary Buffalo calendar at www.justbuffalo.org for more detaile= d info on these events. All events free and open to the pubic unless other= wise noted. 01.07.08 Just Buffalo/Center for Inquiry Literary Caf=C3=87 David Landrey and Michael Kelleher Poetry Reading Wednesday, January 7, 7:30 PM Center for Inquiry, 1310 Sweet Home Road, Amherst=CB=87 ___________________________________________________________________________ JUST BUFFALO MEMBER WRITER CRITIQUE GROUP http://www.justbuffalo.org/docs/Writer_Critique_Group.pdf ___________________________________________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE If you would like to unsubscribe from this list, just say so and you will i= mmediately be removed. _______________________________ Michael Kelleher Artistic Director Just Buffalo Literary Center Market Arcade 617 Main St., Ste. 202A Buffalo, NY 14203 716.832.5400 716.270.0184 (fax) www.justbuffalo.org mjk=40justbuffalo.org =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 13:13:02 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: John Foley Subject: EZRA POUND FLASHPOINT EXTRA! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" (Due to the technical difficulty that I forgot to put a subject in the su= bject=20 line of the email, this announcement, which originally appeared January 1= ,=20 might have missed many who were not intrigued by a subject listed as "no=20= subject given." My apologies to those at FlashPoint, including me, and t= o all=20 who would have liked to know about this new EXTRA! -- jrf) ANNOUNCING .......=20 FLASHPOINT EXTRA!=20 Winter 2009=20 http://www.flashpointmag.com=20 EZRA POUND & WALL STREET =20 featuring =20 CANTO XLV=20 "With Usura" =20 GIANO ACCAME (translated by WAYNE POUNDS) =20 ELLEN CARDONA DAVID HICKMAN =20 MAC OLIVER =20 BRENDON KERESEY =20 TONY EVANS =20 ROSALIE GANCIE CARLO PARCELLI "Along the frontier=20 where the arts & politics clash ..." =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:59:27 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: George Bowering Subject: Re: hockey violence (was poetry brothel) In-Reply-To: <006101c96ef6$50cb7110$f2625330$@net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Is that why Don Cherry dresses like a cliche pimp? On Jan 4, 2009, at 9:27 PM, John Cunningham wrote: > I completely agree with you. Which doesn't change my opinion any that > professional sports and prostitution have certain commonalities. > john > > -----Original Message----- > From: Poetics List (UPenn, UB) > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > Behalf Of Jim Andrews > Sent: January-04-09 1:22 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: hockey violence (was poetry brothel) > > The most popular sport on Earth, soccer/football, rarely involves > fighting. > The stadiums sometimes seat 150,000, such as in Rio, and the > players are > paid ten times what hockey players receive. Baseball, also, is more > popular, at least in Japan and the United States. The stadiums seat > 80,000 > and the players are paid ten times what hockey players receive. > And, again, > fighting is not typical in baseball, and this is true of most other > high-profile sports. > > Hockey, in the USA, is veiwed as a goon show, one step up from all > star > wrestling. Whereas, in Canada, your point of view is common, John. > That pro > hockey allows fighting is a business decision. Whether they do or > don't > permit fighting won't change the general level of popularity of > hockey in > the USA. It is not going to be as popular as baseball, football, or > basketball in the USA regardless of whether fighting is permitted. > It's not > their game. But, with fighting permitted, the owners do better > financially > than they would otherwise. > > One of these days a lawyer is going to successfully prosecute a > case which > arises out of on-ice violence. To the tune of millions of dollars > in damages > > against an NHL club and its personnel. Only then will the business men > rethink their business decision. > > In the meantime, the code lends not only hockey but Canadian > society an > annoying, slightly retarded thugishness. > > I was sorry to hear of the death of Don Sanderson from a hockey fight. > Unfortunately he won't be the last. > > I have been watching the world junior tournament. It's been very > hard-hitting, tough, fast, exciting hockey--more exciting, I would > say, than > > NHL hockey--and there is hardly any fighting. I don't miss it a > bit. In fact > > the last few games in that tournament I've watched (Canada-Russia, > Canada-USA, USA-Slovakia, Slovakia-Sweden) have been some of the most > thrilling hockey games I've ever seen. And just about entirely without > fisticuffs. > > ja > http://vispo.com > >> A very interesting and relevant response, Richard. I was watching >> the news >> yesterday and noted that a young man was killed as a result of a >> hockey >> fight. The newscaster implied that only a limited sector of the >> hockey >> audience was interested in watching hockey fights. My first >> thought was, >> "Bullshit!". That's part and parcel of being a hockey player and it's >> never >> going to change. The male stereotype is one of power and >> strength, of >> laughing in the face of danger. Would anyone be interested in >> watching >> people drive cars around an oval track if not for the expectation of >> accidents? Isn't that one of the reasons why tennis, which demands a >> damned >> sight more athletic ability than football or, perhaps, hockey, not as >> popular a sport? Although golf and baseball and watching grass >> grow are >> pretty popular, aren't they? >> John Herbert Cunningham > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/ > welcome.html > George Henry Bowering Once saw Alexis Smith plain. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 15:33:11 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: William Allegrezza Subject: Come to Series A this Wed. In-Reply-To: <786264.18456.qm@web51002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Come to Series A this Wednesday! January 5, 7:00-8:00 p.m. Steve Halle Kathleen Rooney Hyde Park Art Center. 5020 S. Cornell Avenue Chicago, IL BYOB. For more information, see http://moriapoetry.com/seriesa.html Bill Allegrezza ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 15:34:42 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: William Allegrezza Subject: Any experimental writers coming to Chicago this spring/summer? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I'm looking for writers coming through Chicago or willing to come to Chicago for Series A, the reading series that I run. I have plenty of local writers to chose from, but I want to bring in some people from outside the city. Fiction or poetry. Bill Allegrezza ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 16:40:22 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Al Filreis Subject: dial a poem Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v929.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 215 746-7636 or: 215 746-POEM Happy '09 from all of us at the Kelly Writers House in Philadelphia. With the new year we launch another new project. Call the phone number above any day, at any time, and hear 1) what's happening tonight or very soon at the Writers House 2) highlights of upcoming events 3) a featured poem read at the Writers House, from our archives 4) a featured recording of Writers House-affiliated students We urge all friends of the Writers House to add this number - which we call "6-POEM" - to their contacts list, speed dial, and address book. "What's happening" will be updated almost every day. The other features will be updated frequently. Once again, best wishes for the new year, - Al Al Filreis http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 14:48:59 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: George Bowering Subject: Re: hockey violence (was poetry brothel) In-Reply-To: <75acdde00901050846u3409ce3dh2f6b21206c14364b@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed On Jan 5, 2009, at 8:46 AM, Gwyn McVay wrote: > > > I mean, people on this thread are very politely avoiding saying > "That's so > gay" in part because they know that there are gay people on this list What does that mean? Who says that? Bowering A gerund and your friend. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 14:50:31 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: George Bowering Subject: Re: capitalism and the long poem In-Reply-To: <855014.31957.qm@web111515.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed The long poems by Pound and Olson were planned, based on study of history, and in Olson's case, archaeology, for God's sake! On Jan 5, 2009, at 9:59 AM, Paul Nelson wrote: > ________________________________ > From: George Bowering > > > ________________________________ > From: George Bowering > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Saturday, January 3, 2009 12:16:03 PM > Subject: Re: capitalism and the long poem > > Charles Olson as a writer of the serial poem? > I wish we could hear Jack Spicer's response to that notion! > > gb > > George, > > What would be your guess, since you studied with Jack? > > Paul > > > On Jan 3, 2009, at 7:51 AM, Mark Weiss wrote: > >> Putting aside the dubiousness of the term post modern and the =20 >> assignment of dates to it, Pound was writing the serial poem that =20 >> was the acknowledged model for Olson and Duncan well before 1945, =20 >> and Rimbaud was doing it even earlier. It shouldn't be difficult =20 >> to come up with a few more, but I have to run out the door--=20 >> promises to keep, restless horses, etc. >> >> Mark >> >> >> At 08:16 AM 1/1/2009, you wrote: >>> One of the most fascinating developments of the post-modern era >>> Troy, One of the most fascinating developments of the post-modern =20= >>> era (& the era since then) is the development (evolution) of the =20 >>> Serial Poem. Robin Blaser's 'The Holy Forest' and Nate Mackey's =20 >>> 'Mu' or 'Song of the Andoumbolou' (which together could be =20 >>> considered part of the same poem) are two stellar examples of =20 >>> this. These are more recent examples and 'The Maximus Poems' and =20 >>> 'Paterson' are other examples and I am sure folks on the list =20 >>> could chip in their own favorites. The narrative that emerges is =20 >>> not as obvious and requires more study, more of a commitment than =20= >>> what was previously known as 'epic.' The recognition of these in =20 >>> a mode similar to the epics of the past is very much a function =20 >>> of this shift in literature, especially after 1945 (the beginning =20= >>> of the post-modern era) and Jack Spicer's notion gets close to =20 >>> summing it up: =85The trick naturally is what Duncan learned years =20= >>> ago and tried to teach us not to search for the perfect poem but > to let your way of writing of the moment go along its own paths, =20 > explore and retreat but never be fully realized (confined) within =20 > the boundaries of one poem... It's pleasing to be back to actual =20 > poetics on the poetics list. Happy New Year. Paul E. Nelson Global =20 > Voices Radio SPLAB! American Sentences Organic Poetry Poetry =20 > Postcard Blog Ilalqo, WA 253.735.6328 =20 > ________________________________ From: Troy Camplin =20 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: =20 > Tuesday, December 30, 2008 10:50:09 AM Subject: Re: capitalism and =20 > the long poem I think we've become obsessed with it precisely =20 > because it's fallen out of favor. Somebody, or a few people, =20 > wondered where it went, and began writing about it. It seems to me =20 > that the long poem became impossible with the abandonment of =20 > narrative by poets. How long can one keep up a feeling or a mood or =20= > an "experiment"? Frederick Fierstein writes quite long poems, but =20 > his poems also have narratives holding > them together. Frederick Turner has written two epic poems. It =20 > seems that the gradual abandonment of narrative in poetry by the =20 > Modernists, especially the late Modernists, and the postmodern =20 > poets, far more than economic conditions, have contributed to the =20 > abandonment of long poetry as a form. Troy Camplin =20 > ________________________________ From: Eireene Nealand =20 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Monday, =20 > December 29, 2008 1:45:57 PM Subject: capitalism and the long poem =20 > I sat down to write a little piece about this Russian poet, and =20 > came up with a strange take on the long poem--an idea that the =20 > seriality of it is somehow related to consumer capitalism-- http://=20 > tsky-reviews.blogspot.com/ not the pleasantest thought-- and so I =20 > was wondering if anyone has any good counter arguments, or =20 > different takes on why so many are so obsessed with this form right =20= > now. & will we fall out of love with it during the recession? e > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & =20 > does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: =20 > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & =20 > does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: =20 > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>> >>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check =20 >>> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/=20 >>> welcome.html >> >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check =20 >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/=20 >> welcome.html >> > > GB > Is currently imagining the universe. > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check =20 > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/=20 > welcome.html > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check =20 > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/=20 > welcome.html > George Satisfied with his undergarments. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 17:56:33 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Daniel Zimmerman Subject: Re: hockey violence (was poetry brothel) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Gwyn, Would you prefer that Jim had said "slightly slow-witted (or simple-minded) thuggishness"? Roget doesn't list those alternatives to "retarded" as "offensive." However, Jim seemed to want to express the offensiveness (to him) of a part of Canadian society. If he wanted to call someone a bastard, would you chide him for not saying "child of unmarried parents"? Would "dung cranium" sting as aptly as "shithead"? Should we scruple as much in our poetry as in email to make sure not to offend ANYone? Jim referred to an aspect of society-- not to a specific individual. I'd agree that to call a person of low intelligence "retarded" might offend some people (including the person so designated), but it seems to me perfectly OK to call people retarded who clearly do not have low intelligence but whose opinions or behavior suggest that they have abandoned their customary average (or high) intelligence regarding a specific situation. If they deserve opprobrium, let them have it! George W. Bush, for example, richly deserves that epithet, even though the Internet tells me he has an IQ of 125 ("Are you smarter than a 5th grader?" &c.). Could we talk about poetry now? ~ Dan Zimmerman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gwyn McVay" To: Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 11:46 AM Subject: Re: hockey violence (was poetry brothel) > On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 2:21 PM, Jim Andrews wrote: > >> In the meantime, the code lends not only hockey but Canadian society an >> annoying, slightly retarded thugishness. >> > > Oh my God, we did not just go there in the derailment of brothel metaphors > into sports, did we? Because some of the least thuggish athletes I've met > were people I got to know while working at the DC headquarters of Special > Olympics International. > > I mean, people on this thread are very politely avoiding saying "That's so > gay" in part because they know that there are gay people on this list and > that CA Conrad, among others, would stomp a mudhole of rhetoric in the > rhetorical ass of the first person to do so. But because we're all hip hip > hip hip hip and intellectual, we just absolutely know that nobody is going > to object to the casual slinging of the term "retarded" for people who may > or may not in fact have mental retardation, right? How edgy, sir. How > totally edgy. > > Gwyn "Person of Alternative Skeletal Alignment" McVay, off to download and > test some crippleware > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 17:59:38 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Stephen Motika Subject: Celan Tribute featuring Fiona Templeton and Barbez MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Force of Light: A Multimedia Tribute to the Life & Poetry of Paul Celan Featuring with Fiona Templeton & Barbez Wednesday, January 7, 7:00pm Barbez, a critically-acclaimed "ethno-punk-cabaret" ensemble, performs Force of Light, a multimedia event that interweaves the poetry of Paul Celan with music and video. Experimental poet, playwright and performance artist Fiona Templeton will narrate. Cosponsored by Poets House and the Museum of Jewish Heritage. Museum of Jewish Heritage Edmond J. Safra Plaza 36 Battery Place New York City For details, visit www.mjhnyc.org $12 for adults, $10 for students and seniors, $7 for Poets House Members and Museum of Jewish Heritage Members ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 09:29:20 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Deborah Poe Subject: our parenthetical ontology: deborah poe (ordering and events) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hello All, My poetry collection *Our Parenthetical Ontology *is available to order: http://custom-words.com/poe.html. If anyone is interested in reviewing, please reply with your address so that I can send you a copy. I have scheduled readings during 2008/2009 to welcome my book into the world. Listed here are the upcoming events: http://deborahpoe.com/readings.htm My next reading is in Seattle at Richard Hugo House on Monday evening, January 12th: http://www.hugohouse.org/events/ http://deborahpoe.com/spontaneouslylum_seattle.pdf (large file) I hope to see you in 2009 at one of the events. Best wishes to you for the New Year, Deborah Poe ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 10:13:26 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Gary Sullivan Subject: Mitch Highfill and Katy Lederer Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Mitch Highfill & Katy Lederer Wednesday=2C Jan 7=2C Poetry Project 2nd Ave & 10th St=2C NYC=2C 8:00 pm =20 Mitch Highfill is the author of 7 books of poetry=2C including Moth Light (= Abraham Lincoln) and REBIS (Open Mouth). His work has appeared in OCHO & Cr= itiphoria.=20 =20 Katy Lederer is the author of the poetry collections=2C Winter Sex (Verse P= ress=2C 2002) and The Heaven-Sent Leaf (BOA Editions=2C 2008) as well as th= e memoir Poker Face: A Girlhood Among Gamblers (Crown=2C 2003).=20 Mitch will be reading the serial poem=2C Moth Light=2C accompanied by Natal= ia Paruz on musical saw. =20 Here is some info on Natalia: NATALIA PARUZ=2C affectionately known as the =91Saw Lady=91=2C has spent ov= er a decade bringing the rare art form of playing music on a carpenter=92s = saw to audiences around the world. She performed with the Israel Philharmon= ic Orchestra conducted by Zubin Mehta=2C with the Westchester Philharmonic = Orchestra=2C the Royal Air Moroccan Symphony Orchestra and at Lincoln Cente= r=92s Avery Fisher Hall with PDQ Bach composer Peter Schickele and with the= Little Orchestra Society. November 2007 marked her Carnegie Hall debut as = a musical saw soloist and June 2008 marked her Madison Square Garden debut.= Television appearances include FOX (Good Day New York)=2C ABC (Good Mornin= g America)=2C MTV (Andy Milonakis Show)=2C VH1 (Behind the Music)=2C Histor= y Channel (Tool Box)=2C PBS (NY Voices)=2C MSG (NYC Soundtracks). Film appearances include =91Dummy=91 with Adrian Brody. Natalia=92s saw can= be heard on the soundtracks of films such as El Carnaval Sodoma/Arthuro Ri= pstein and American Carny. Radio performances include NPR (A Prairie Home C= ompanion)=2C XM Satelite Radio & WBAI. Natalia received citations of honor = from the New York City Council=2C the New York State Senate and a medal of = honor from Paris=2C France.=20 _________________________________________________________________ It=92s the same Hotmail=AE. If by =93same=94 you mean up to 70% faster. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_broad= 1_122008= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 09:14:50 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Fw: Reality Too-December 2008 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Friends and Colleagues; December concludes the "Reality Too" blog: http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282/blog/December.htm=20 Mirror site: http://www.cddc.vt.edu/host/weishaus/Blog/December.htm Introduction: http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282/blog/intro.htm I want to thank everyone who has taken the time to read it, and = especially those who offered your guidance during the past year. Now my work continues into other means. Have a wondrous 2009. -Joel =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 13:34:59 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Fluffy Singler Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I saw reference in there to men and gigolos. I have a problem with the old school "sex degrades women" feminist argument. Is a the location of a brothel and the profession of prostitution *always* and inherently degrading to women? I thought there were sex-positive feminists who were working against that idea. -----Original Message----- From: steve russell [mailto:poet_in_hell@YAHOO.COM] Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 5:49 PM Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory this seems pretty light hearted. I'm sorry to hear about the wicked (objects, et cetera) capitalist. i suspect that the most die hard feminist could enjoy her/himself. --- On Fri, 12/19/08, mIEKAL aND wrote: From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Friday, December 19, 2008, 4:15 PM New York poetry brothel tempts with verse Published: Friday December 19, 2008 http://rawstory.com/news/afp/New_York_poetry_brothel_tempts_with_12192008.ht ml The prostitute whispers, wets her lips and prepares to bare... her heart with a poem. Welcome to New York's Poetry Brothel, where punters delve between the lines, not the sheets. At a weekend session in a Manhattan night club called the Zipper Factory the look was bona fide bordello. Literary ladies of the night flitted between intimate, candle-lit nooks, red lights and paintings of nudes. Some of the poetesses for sale sported retro-style garter belts and frilly knickers. One swanned about in a top hat and feather boa. But transactions at the Poetry Brothel are of the mind, not the body, and a moment with the catalogue, replete with pictures and whimsical descriptions, reveals what's on offer. Page four boasts The Professor, swearing to have heard "the wail of your striving heart drifting over the spires of skyscrapers." Harriett Van Os on page 10 promises to "tell you secrets she doesn't know she knows." Cecille Ballroom tempts punters on page 13 claiming she can "coax your drum." Gigolo poets are available, not least Poetry Brothel co-founder Nicholas Adamski, who goes by the name Tennessee Pink and tops tempestuous, dark looks with an eye patch. "Poetry is what I love more than anything," cooed The Madame, the sultry spirit behind the whole idea. The Madame -- real name Stephanie Berger -- came dressed for the part in low-cut dress, elbow-length black gloves and a peacock headdress. "I'd rather be in the bedroom hearing poetry than listening to some old man sitting on a chair on a stage," she explained by the light of a guttering candle. One-on-one encounters, for which "clients" pay three to five dollars in addition to a 15 dollar entry fee and one free reading, took place upstairs. The "whores" read from their own material, much of which is free verse, making for intense, sometimes baffling performances. But for those needing a break, the Poetry Brothel laid on flamenco guitarists, a fortune-teller, a blackjack table and a bar specializing in port and whisky The young hedonists, most of them students, appear to have struck a surprisingly successful formula. "There just aren't that many poetry readings where poets show a lot of cleavage," said The Professor, otherwise known as Jennifer Michael Hecht, aged 43 and a real life professor at Manhattan's New School. She teaches writing to many of the Brothel's regulars and is proud of the result. "It's kind of like the Weimar Republic without the Nazis. At two in the morning you have 20- or 30-year-olds lying all over the place reading poetry," she said. "The custom is to read poetry alone, but we know that from Homer onward, people read it aloud and in groups." By midnight the Zipper Factory was packed and getting fuller -- and rowdier. The fortune teller, bedecked in red scarf and blue plumes, mumbled to someone about "choppy waters." The flamenco duo strummed. The Madame, yet another glass of port in hand, introduced poet "whores" in a voice suggesting she appreciated more than their literary charms. When Patricia Smith, a well-established poet, took the mike to declaim a long and rhythmical poem about love and making love, there were rock concert cheers from the crowd. "I always shudder when I pray," Smith intoned in a mesmerizing voice, "so your name must be a prayer." Even for these bohemians there's no escaping the economic crisis sweeping the country. One of the poets, 22-year-old Nina Cheng, was about to start a job at Bear Stearns this year when the bank collapsed. Now she is writing a play about the experience and applying for a playwright's course at Yale. "I'd thought I'd do banking and get into the arts when I retired -- not this early," said Cheng, known at the Brothel as The Opium Eater. Another poetry prostitute, 27-year-old Rachel Herman-Gross, aka Simone, worried that crashing stock markets will pull the rug from under the arts scene. "It's going to be a lot harder. A lot of artists are sustained by grants from people with money." But one enthusiastic "client" said the ingenuity of the Poetry Brothel proves there are ways to survive. "Money's always been scarce for artists and they're very resourceful people," said Edmund Voyer, 54, a hefty man described as an "evangelist" on his business card and who came to the Zipper Factory wearing a kilt. His drinking companion, Jennifer Hoa, 27, agreed money and art would always find ways to meet. "I've been a sell-out for years as a corporate lawyer, but I come here," she said. "I can't suppress my artistic side." The Madame promised that the Poetry Brothel welcomed all. "Many are young men with perhaps a secret interest in poems," she murmured. "Just look at the menu. Get a recommendation. Or say you don't care. Say: 'I need poetry. I'm hungry.'" ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 16:22:21 +0200 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Eir=?UTF-8?B?w60=?=kur =?UTF-8?B?w5Y=?=rn Nor=?UTF-8?B?w7A=?=dahl Subject: Inger Christensen - 1935-2009 In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Inger Christensen died last friday. http://www.norddahl.org/english/2009/01/inger-christensen-1935-2009/ --=20 www.norddahl.org Eir=C3=ADkur =C3=96rn Nor=C3=B0dahl Fleminginkatu 9A 10 00530 Helsinki Finland =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 13:34:59 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Fluffy Singler Subject: FW: language v. experimental MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm hopelessly behind on reading the digests, so I hope this isn't so late as to be irrelevant completely. I disagree that it's about white noise. But I do think can be about sound and noise to a degree and also about effect. Much of what I've read on here about experimentalism in poetry is about the experiment itself but rarely about what we hope to accomplish when we experiment, what our relationship is to the reader or listener. I personally believe this comes from what I think of as a confessionalist ethos, the idea that poetry is about the self-expression of the poet, whether it's the expression of the poet's experimental inquiries or the poet's subjectivity and feelings. For me the point of work that you might categorize as "white noise" and subverting the meaning of words is to scramble and reorganize the way we process language. My belief is that in a world in which language is constantly misused and used against us--in a world that is virtually composed of Orwellian newspeak, in which we are assaulted by the specious "logic" of advertising and political language, the insidious ways that our deepest beliefs and values are perverted, that rewiring the way we process language is vital and poetry is the one art form that is poised to do so because of the way in which language can be used to create surrealistic images, unusual sound associations, and help all of us who hear and read the work to develop our ability for creative response to the world around us. There are so many literary forms well-suited to didacticism and even to descriptive work, but few that have the freedom to experiment with and explode and reconfigure language the way poetry does. -----Original Message----- From: Troy Camplin [mailto:emersoninst@YAHOO.COM] Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 10:00 AM Subject: Re: language v. experimental Words mean things. All this kind of thing attempts to do is turn information into white noise. Troy Camplin ________________________________ From: lanny quarles To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 10:10:19 AM Subject: Re: language v. experimental While I respect the deep feeling and intellectual fervor of the spirit of such a debate, the issue is one of cultural semantics. Biologically, the probability gradient such a debate represents in terms of the physical combinatorics of essence in one versus the other, ie the quality of difference in substance, would seem to render either both equally interesting. What is interesting to me is to develope practices, which, though seeming externally to be 'experimental' or 'avant-garde' are actually post-semantic emblematicisms harking much closer to a kind of hermetic hieroglyphics as represented by a system like Gerhard Dorn's in his ON THE MONARCHY OF THE TERNARY IN UNITY, VERSUS THE SINGLE COMBAT OF THE DYAD CONFUSED IN THE MULTITUDE, which iconistically echoes the semiotic mantic (manic tic) of our singularly self-involved world and collective cultus. I am of the same local phenomenon as the mimi virus. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimivirus I own a can of "Blow Off Duster" for removing tiny dust particles, of which some are probably my own sloughed off microparticles, namelessly rejoining the great flotsam of the grating work. I don't call it the great work, because it is tiny, Horton hears a hoo tiny, but grate, because a grate is like a grille, or a gryllus, an oddly elegant little monster built willy nilly from various parts to represent the thing it thought it needed to represent at the time. Also grating can be annoying. http://www.blowoff.com/blowoff/duster.html Lanny Quarles http://jellybeanweirdo.blogspot.com/ http://pnoise.blogspot.com/ http://www.phaneron.blogspot.com/ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 13:10:59 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jennifer Karmin Subject: WEEK ONE: When Does It or You Begin? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii WHEN DOES IT OR YOU BEGIN? (MEMORY AS INNOVATION) Festival of Writing, Performance, & Video Curated by Amina Cain & Jennifer Karmin at Links Hall 3435 N. Sheffield Avenue Chicago, IL WEEK ONE Individual Memory: A Celebration for Hannah Weiner featuring performative readings, butoh dance, & installations FRIDAY, JANUARY 9 at 8pm Judith Goldman with collaborators [John Beer, Lisa Janssen, Julia Klein & Monica Westin] Nicole LeGette Jenny Roberts Timothy Yu video by Abigail Child talkback with Laura Goldstein opening night reception with festival artists SATURDAY, JANUARY 10 at 8pm Lee Ann Brown with collaborators [A D Jameson, Toni Asante Lightfoot, Sarah Merchlewitz, Anni Rossi, Aurora Tabar, Rachel Tredon & Miranda Torn] Roberto Harrison Nicole LeGette Jenny Roberts SUNDAY, JANUARY 11 at 7pm Lee Ann Brown with collaborators [A D Jameson, Toni Asante Lightfoot, Sarah Merchlewitz, Anni Rossi, Aurora Tabar, Rachel Tredon & Miranda Torn] Judith Goldman with collaborators [John Beer, Lisa Janssen, Julia Klein & Monica Westin] Jenny Roberts Timothy Yu video by Abigail Child TICKETS $12 $10 students, seniors, & working artists/writers FULL SCHEDULE ONLINE http://www.linkshall.org/09-pp-jan.shtml WEEK ONE: BUTOH WORKSHOP January 10 from 11am-3pm Topography of the Subtle Senses with Nicole LeGette $35 ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 13:18:03 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jim Andrews Subject: 88 Constellations for Wittgenstein by David Clark MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 88 CONSTELLATIONS FOR WITTGENSTEIN (TO BE PLAYED WITH THE LEFT HAND) http://88constellations.net DAVID CLARK "Lyrical and philosophical, this sprawling feature-length interactive film for the internet contemplates the life and work of the influential Austrian philosopher Ludwig Wittgenstein through 88 interactive Flash animations, each one corresponding to a constellation from the night sky. The viewer is invited to navigate through a web of interconnecting narratives that move from association to association - bringing Wittgenstein's work into conversation with our contemporary digital culture. The work is an interactive collage. It is story of a man's life told in fragments. It is a map of coincidence and correspondences. It is a digital film. It is story-telling as browsing. David Clark is known for his website 'A is for Apple' that has been shown at over 50 film festivals around the world including Sundance, SIGGRAPH, Transmediale in Berlin and the American Museum of the Moving Image. 'A is for Apple' won 'Best in Show' at the 2003 SXSW Interactive Festival in Austen, Texas and First Prize at FILE2002 in Sao Paulo, Brazil. He is a member of the new media collective 'computer.says.no'. He studied at the School of the Art Institute of Chicago, the Whitney Program in New York, and the Canadian Film Centre in Toronto. He currently teaches film and media arts at NSCAD University in Halifax. His personal website is www.chemicalpictures.net ." Above text lifted from http://www.hz-journal.org/netg/g12.html ja ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 19:23:12 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Cara Benson Subject: The NEW & IMPROVED New Deal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable do forgive me if this already went around...but! There's = hey all -=0A=0Ado forgive me if this already went around...but! =0AThere's = a petition on to channel some funding to the arts. =0A=0A=A0http://www.ipet= itions.com/petition/artsstimulus/index.html=0A=A0=0A=A0=0A=A0=0A=A0=0A=A0= =0A=A0=0A=0A=0A__________=0A=0Ahttp://www.necessetics.com=0A=0Ahttp://www.n= ecessetics.com/sousrature.html=0A=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 22:43:56 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory In-Reply-To: <2B37329EFF6F4560B171E5FF08DDA807@fluffysinglePC> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit yes I think prostitution does-- oh, boy, or oh, girl, now I'm going to get blasted & don't have time to respond to much right now! but I believe this because anything that objectifies human beings keeps them from being seen a fully human, and using another person's body & paying for it in a male-dominated culture is inherently wrong, I believe. There are some feminists working against this idea but others like me who will continue to object. I just saw Milk, and the sex in it was so wild & so sweet--wish hetero sex could be like that but in our culture so far it usually isn't. How wd you like to be in a place where anyone cd come in & you wd have to have sex with that person no matter how odious & that person was coming to you to act out fantasies that cd be harmful & you had to pretend to like it & do this over & over every day? On 1/6/09 2:34 PM, "Fluffy Singler" wrote: > I saw reference in there to men and gigolos. I have a problem with the old > school "sex degrades women" feminist argument. Is a the location of a > brothel and the profession of prostitution *always* and inherently degrading > to women? I thought there were sex-positive feminists who were working > against that idea. > > -----Original Message----- > From: steve russell [mailto:poet_in_hell@YAHOO.COM] > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 5:49 PM > Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory > > this seems pretty light hearted. > I'm sorry to hear about the wicked (objects, et cetera) capitalist. > i suspect that the most die hard feminist could enjoy her/himself. > > --- On Fri, 12/19/08, mIEKAL aND wrote: > From: mIEKAL aND > Subject: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Date: Friday, December 19, 2008, 4:15 PM > > New York poetry brothel tempts with verse > > Published: Friday December 19, 2008 > > http://rawstory.com/news/afp/New_York_poetry_brothel_tempts_with_12192008.ht > ml > > The prostitute whispers, wets her lips and prepares to bare... her heart > with a > poem. > > Welcome to New York's Poetry Brothel, where punters delve between the > lines, not the sheets. > > At a weekend session in a Manhattan night club called the Zipper Factory the > look was bona fide bordello. > > Literary ladies of the night flitted between intimate, candle-lit nooks, red > lights and paintings of nudes. > > Some of the poetesses for sale sported retro-style garter belts and frilly > knickers. One swanned about in a top hat and feather boa. > > But transactions at the Poetry Brothel are of the mind, not the body, and a > moment with the catalogue, replete with pictures and whimsical descriptions, > reveals what's on offer. > > Page four boasts The Professor, swearing to have heard "the wail of your > striving heart drifting over the spires of skyscrapers." > > Harriett Van Os on page 10 promises to "tell you secrets she doesn't > know she knows." Cecille Ballroom tempts punters on page 13 claiming she > can "coax your drum." > > Gigolo poets are available, not least Poetry Brothel co-founder Nicholas > Adamski, who goes by the name Tennessee Pink and tops tempestuous, dark > looks > with an eye patch. > > "Poetry is what I love more than anything," cooed The Madame, the > sultry spirit behind the whole idea. > > The Madame -- real name Stephanie Berger -- came dressed for the part in > low-cut dress, elbow-length black gloves and a peacock headdress. > > "I'd rather be in the bedroom hearing poetry than listening to some > old man sitting on a chair on a stage," she explained by the light of a > guttering candle. > > One-on-one encounters, for which "clients" pay three to five dollars > in addition to a 15 dollar entry fee and one free reading, took place > upstairs. > > The "whores" read from their own material, much of which is free > verse, making for intense, sometimes baffling performances. > > But for those needing a break, the Poetry Brothel laid on flamenco > guitarists, > a fortune-teller, a blackjack table and a bar specializing in port and > whisky > > The young hedonists, most of them students, appear to have struck a > surprisingly successful formula. > > "There just aren't that many poetry readings where poets show a lot of > cleavage," said The Professor, otherwise known as Jennifer Michael Hecht, > aged 43 and a real life professor at Manhattan's New School. > > She teaches writing to many of the Brothel's regulars and is proud of the > result. > > "It's kind of like the Weimar Republic without the Nazis. At two in > the morning you have 20- or 30-year-olds lying all over the place reading > poetry," she said. > > "The custom is to read poetry alone, but we know that from Homer onward, > people read it aloud and in groups." > > By midnight the Zipper Factory was packed and getting fuller -- and rowdier. > > The fortune teller, bedecked in red scarf and blue plumes, mumbled to > someone > about "choppy waters." The flamenco duo strummed. The Madame, yet > another glass of port in hand, introduced poet "whores" in a voice > suggesting she appreciated more than their literary charms. > > When Patricia Smith, a well-established poet, took the mike to declaim a > long > and rhythmical poem about love and making love, there were rock concert > cheers > from the crowd. > > "I always shudder when I pray," Smith intoned in a mesmerizing voice, > "so your name must be a prayer." > > Even for these bohemians there's no escaping the economic crisis sweeping > the country. > > One of the poets, 22-year-old Nina Cheng, was about to start a job at Bear > Stearns this year when the bank collapsed. Now she is writing a play about > the > experience and applying for a playwright's course at Yale. > > "I'd thought I'd do banking and get into the arts when I retired > -- not this early," said Cheng, known at the Brothel as The Opium Eater. > > Another poetry prostitute, 27-year-old Rachel Herman-Gross, aka Simone, > worried > that crashing stock markets will pull the rug from under the arts scene. > "It's going to be a lot harder. A lot of artists are sustained by > grants from people with money." > > But one enthusiastic "client" said the ingenuity of the Poetry > Brothel proves there are ways to survive. > > "Money's always been scarce for artists and they're very > resourceful people," said Edmund Voyer, 54, a hefty man described as an > "evangelist" on his business card and who came to the Zipper Factory > wearing a kilt. > > His drinking companion, Jennifer Hoa, 27, agreed money and art would always > find ways to meet. > > "I've been a sell-out for years as a corporate lawyer, but I come > here," she said. "I can't suppress my artistic side." > > The Madame promised that the Poetry Brothel welcomed all. > > "Many are young men with perhaps a secret interest in poems," she > murmured. "Just look at the menu. Get a recommendation. Or say you > don't care. Say: 'I need poetry. I'm hungry.'" > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 04:45:28 +0100 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Obododimma Oha Subject: While the He/Art Pants Live Comments: To: a.dasylva@mail.ui.edu.ng, abiola.odejide@mail.ui.edu.ng, ADEBAYO OKUNADE , adekay3-ani@yahoo.co.uk, adekoya Michael sanni , Adeleke Fakoya , Afam Akeh , afamakeh2004@yahoo.co.uk, agboghom@yahoo.com, agulanna@yahoo.co.uk, akinodeb@yahoo.com, alabi14@yahoo.com, Alex Smith , alison@iatefl.org, almashaile@yahoo.fr, Amaechi Udefi , amanzeakuda@yahoo.com, Amatoritsero Ede , amicamm@yahoo.com, amy k , amyhappens@yahoo.com, ANTOINETTE TIDJANI ALOU , ARTWELL CAIN , asajala@yahoo.co.uk, ayo.ojebode@mail.ui.edu.ng, ayobamikehinde2000@yahoo.com, b.schwabsky@btopenworld.com, Badara Sall , badara.sall@yahoo.fr, Banji Fashina , Bao Sokhna , baydallayek@yahoo.com, Bayo Okunade , begongb@gmail.com, benjamin-basan@uiowa.edu, bfbankie@yahoo.com, bh35@evansville.edu, bobbi lurie , Bola-Abass@yahoo.com, bolaudegbe@yahoo.com, c.okoye@mail.ui.edu.ng, caropa_2005@yahoo.com, Charles Ogbulogo , Chidi Anthony Opara , Christine Matzke , chukwumaok@yahoo.com, Ciara Daniels , "Daniela G." , demenana@yahoo.com, dipoirele@yahoo.com, Doctor Kolawole , donna pecore , "Dr. Herbert Igboanusi" , ebeleewa@yahoo.com, ebiakolo@cmc.edu.ng, ehaleoye@yahoo.co.uk, fashacademia@yahoo.com, funks29adeboye@yahoo.co.uk, george spencer , Gerald Schwartz , gokeakinboye@yahoo.com, gosaaji@yahoo.com, greg obiamalu , hanpet70@yahoo.com, heghagha@yahoo.com, herbigbo@yahoo.com, hgaruba@humanities.uct.ac.za, ibgarba@yahoo.co.uk, Isaac Ayegboyin , isidore okpewho , jared schickling , jidoafo@yahoo.com, jimohrafiu@yahoo.com, jkusnir@fhpv.unipo.sk, "John M. Bennett" , Jonathan Haynes , joniek2001@yahoo.com, jonijones@mail.utexas.edu, Joseph N Eke , josephushie@yahoo.com, JudithLaura@aol.com, Julene T Weaver , Kate Nwabumma , kayode adeduntan , kunbiolasope@hotmail.com, lekan.oyeleye@mail.ui.edu.ng, Lenore Weiss , Mamadou CAMARA , Mark Krzanowski , Mark Weiss , markkski2 Krzanowski , mathanjt@mopipi.ub.bw, Matthew Johnson , Maxim Uzoatu , mcamara1@yahoo.com, melamumj@mopipi.ub.bw, mitaiwo2008@gmail.com, Moffat Kamau , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mos=E9_Chimoun?= , Mose chimoun , mountaga Diagne , Moussa ZAKI , murtallab@yahoo.com, Nduka Otiono , nikjob@yahoo.com, Niyi Osundare , Nkechi Christopher , Nkechi Christopher , "Nnaemeka, Obioma N" , nnoromazuonye@aol.co.uk, no.fashina@mail.ui.edu.ng, O Oguibe , O Sugu , ob.jegede@mail.ui.edu.ng, Obiwu Obiwu , obiwu@yahoo.com, odiaofeimun@hotmail.com, odohijeoma@yahoo.co.uk, odohijeoma@yahoo.com, offor66@yahoo.com, ogaga2@yahoo.com, ogunsijioa@yahoo.com, oka142obono@gmail.com, oka142obono@yahoo.com, okinbalaunko@yahoo.com, okongwu44@yahoo.co.uk, Oladipo Tejumola , Omar S , Omar Sougou , Onookome Okome , onookome_okome@hotmail.com, ookunoye@oauife.edu.ng, ookunoye@yahoo.com, oscar brathwaite , oyekunle oyediran , ozemoya.okordion@exxonmobil.com, pa.ogundeji@mail.ui.edu.ng, remraj1@yahoo.com, rexmarinus@hotmail.com, roriaku@yahoo.com, sentinelpoetry@hotmail.com, shittuayodeji@yahoo.com, sola olorunyomi , steveanurudu@yahoo.com, StThomasino@nyc.rr.com, SusanBright , tadegbola@alt-i.org, tar.tsaaior@mail.ui.edu.ng, tayolamidi@yahoo.com, tejumola_ajao@gmail.com, Terri Moore , toyin akindele , tsaaior@yahoo.com, tsaaiortar@yahoo.com, tsavagebar@yahoo.com, Tunde Adegbola , uwakwecbu@gmail.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Obododimma Oha and Anny Ballardini are pleased to announce the new Antholog= y on the Poets' Corner: *While the He/art Pants: Poetic Responses to the 2008 American Elections*. We wish to thank all the contributors who have made it possible, and invite you to read and spread the good news. *=B7* While the He/art Pants:(Poet= ic Responses to the 2008 American Elections) *=B7* Editorial: Obododimma Oha *=B7* Editorial: Anny Ballardini *=B7* Edward Mycue *=B7* Jared Schickling *=B7* Bill Morgan *=B7* John M. Bennett *=B7* Conrad Reeder *=B7* Tom McBride *=B7* Gerald Schwartz *=B7* Farideh Hassanzadeh-Mostafavi *=B7* Russ Golata *=B7* Evelyn Posamentier *=B7* Gina Sangster Hayman *=B7* Matt Johnson *=B7* Susan Bright *=B7* Daniel Zimmerman *=B7* Fan Ogilvie *=B7* Henry Gould *=B7* Carol Novack *=B7* Joseph Duemer *=B7* Peter Ciccariello *=B7* Spencer Selby *=B7* Eugen Galasso *=B7* Grace Cavalieri *=B7* Amy King *=B7 * Halvard Johnson *=B7* Raymond Bianchi *=B7* Lars Palm * =B7* George Spencer *=B7* Bob Grumman *=B7* Wendy Taylor Carlisle *=B7* Br. Tom Murphy *=B7* Annetta L. Gomez-Jefferson *=B7* Uzor Maxim Uzoatu *=B7* Jukka-Pekka Kervinen *=B7* David Howard *=B7* Obiwu *=B7* Afam Akeh *=B7*= Jim Leftwich *=B7* Charles Martin *= =B7* Luc Fierens *= =B7* Eileen Tabios *= =B7* Donna Pecore *=B7* Francesco Levato *= =B7* Tony Trigilio *= =B7* Terri Moore *=B7= * Barbara Crooker *=B7* Vincent Francone *=B7* David-Baptiste Chirot *= =B7* Julene Tripp Weaver *=B7 * Daniela Gioseffi *=B7* Obododimma Oha *=B7* Judith Laura *=B7* While the He/art Pants:(Poet= ic Responses to the 2008 American Elections) http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2664 *=B7* Editorial: Obododimma Oha http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2665 *=B7* Editorial: Anny Ballardini http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2666 *=B7* Edward Mycue http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2671 *=B7* Jared Schickling http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2672 *=B7* Bill Morgan http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2673 *=B7* John M. Bennett http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2674 *=B7* Conrad Reeder http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2675 *=B7* Tom McBride http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2676 *=B7* Gerald Schwartz http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2677 *=B7* Farideh Hassanzadeh-Mostafavi http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2678 *=B7* Russ Golata http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2679 *=B7* Evelyn Posamentier http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2680 *=B7* Gina Sangster Hayman http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2681 *=B7* Matt Johnson http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2682 *=B7* Susan Bright http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2683 *=B7* Daniel Zimmerman http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2684 *=B7* Fan Ogilvie http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2685 *=B7* Henry Gould http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2686 *=B7* Carol Novack http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2687 *=B7* Joseph Duemer http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2688 *=B7* Peter Ciccariello http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2689 *=B7* Spencer Selby http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2690 *=B7* Eugen Galasso http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2691 *=B7* Grace Cavalieri http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2692 *=B7* Amy King http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2693 *=B7* Halvard Johnson http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2695 *=B7* Raymond Bianchi http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2696 *=B7* Lars Palm http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2697 *=B7* George Spencer http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2698 *=B7* Bob Grumman http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2702 *=B7* Wendy Taylor Carlisle http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2703 *=B7* Br. Tom Murphy http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2704 *=B7* Annetta L. Gomez-Jefferson http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2705 *=B7* Uzor Maxim Uzoatu http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2706 *=B7* Jukka-Pekka Kervinen http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2707 *=B7* David Howard http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2708 *=B7* Obiwu http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2709 *=B7* Afam Akeh http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2720 *=B7* Jim Leftwich http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2721 *=B7* Charles Martin http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2722 *=B7* Luc Fierens http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2723 *=B7* Eileen Tabios http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2730 *=B7* Donna Pecore http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2731 *=B7* Francesco Levato http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2739 *=B7* Tony Trigilio http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2740 *=B7* Terri Moore http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2741 *=B7* Barbara Crooker http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2742 *=B7* Vincent Francone http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2743 *=B7* David-Baptiste Chirot http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2755 *=B7* Julene Tripp Weaver http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2756 *=B7* Daniela Gioseffi http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2791 *=B7* Obododimma Oha http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2827 *=B7* Judith Laura http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2829 --=20 Obododimma Oha Senior Lecturer in Stylistics & Semiotics Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & Fellow, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 23:04:06 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I guess I must be 200 years old--does nobody else agree that it's common sense that prostitution is essentially different from other kinds of 'work'? On 12/23/08 10:00 PM, "Adam Tobin" wrote: > Why is the capitalist exploitation of women at a brothel worse than, say, > the capitalist exploitation of women at a Zipper Factory? It's just a > different kind of labor, no? Given that some artists are seemingly > comfortable with capitalism, why should they not acknowledge it in the name > of their ventures? > > I understand, of course, that brothels have a particular history with a > particular kind of violence attached to it, but so do factories. Do you > direct the same righteous anger at Andy Warhol? > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Poetics List (UPenn, UB) [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > Behalf Of Ruth Lepson > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 5:01 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory > > brothels about as funny as slavery. > which British feminist? > > > On 12/21/08 1:44 PM, "steve russell" wrote: > >> somewhat related: William Styron, the way he waxes his libido in >> "Sophie's Choice." >> i'm still looking for the book of essays by the British Feminist who >> enlightened me. >> >> --- On Sat, 12/20/08, Ruth Lepson wrote: >> From: Ruth Lepson >> Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Date: Saturday, December 20, 2008, 6:51 PM >> >> cooptation of poetry by capitalist objectification of women. not >> funny. to use a brothel as a metaphor is disgusting. I remember when >> Denise Levertov criticized a poet for using napalm as a metaphor for >> personal pain, saying you don't know what it feels like & it's much >> worse than the way you are characterizing it. >> >> >> On 12/19/08 4:15 PM, "mIEKAL aND" >> wrote: >> >>> New York poetry brothel tempts with verse >>> >>> Published: Friday December 19, 2008 >>> >>> >> http://rawstory.com/news/afp/New_York_poetry_brothel_tempts_with_12192 >> 008.html >>> >>> The prostitute whispers, wets her lips and prepares to bare... her >>> heart with a poem. >>> >>> Welcome to New York's Poetry Brothel, where punters delve between the >>> lines, not the sheets. >>> >>> At a weekend session in a Manhattan night club called the Zipper >>> Factory the look was bona fide bordello. >>> >>> Literary ladies of the night flitted between intimate, candle-lit >>> nooks, red lights and paintings of nudes. >>> >>> Some of the poetesses for sale sported retro-style garter belts and >>> frilly knickers. One swanned about in a top hat and feather boa. >>> >>> But transactions at the Poetry Brothel are of the mind, not the body, >>> and a moment with the catalogue, replete with pictures and whimsical >>> descriptions, reveals what's on offer. >>> >>> Page four boasts The Professor, swearing to have heard "the wail of >>> your striving heart drifting over the spires of skyscrapers." >>> >>> Harriett Van Os on page 10 promises to "tell you secrets she >> doesn't >>> know she knows." Cecille Ballroom tempts punters on page 13 claiming >>> she can "coax your drum." >>> >>> Gigolo poets are available, not least Poetry Brothel co-founder >>> Nicholas Adamski, who goes by the name Tennessee Pink and tops >>> tempestuous, dark looks with an eye patch. >>> >>> "Poetry is what I love more than anything," cooed The Madame, >> the >>> sultry spirit behind the whole idea. >>> >>> The Madame -- real name Stephanie Berger -- came dressed for the part >>> in low-cut dress, elbow-length black gloves and a peacock headdress. >>> >>> "I'd rather be in the bedroom hearing poetry than listening to >> some >>> old man sitting on a chair on a stage," she explained by the light of >>> a guttering candle. >>> >>> One-on-one encounters, for which "clients" pay three to five >> dollars >>> in addition to a 15 dollar entry fee and one free reading, took place >>> upstairs. >>> >>> The "whores" read from their own material, much of which is free >>> verse, making for intense, sometimes baffling performances. >>> >>> But for those needing a break, the Poetry Brothel laid on flamenco >>> guitarists, a fortune-teller, a blackjack table and a bar >>> specializing in port and whisky >>> >>> The young hedonists, most of them students, appear to have struck a >>> surprisingly successful formula. >>> >>> "There just aren't that many poetry readings where poets show a >> lot of >>> cleavage," said The Professor, otherwise known as Jennifer Michael >>> Hecht, aged 43 and a real life professor at Manhattan's New School. >>> >>> She teaches writing to many of the Brothel's regulars and is proud of >>> the result. >>> >>> "It's kind of like the Weimar Republic without the Nazis. At two >> in >>> the morning you have 20- or 30-year-olds lying all over the place >>> reading poetry," she said. >>> >>> "The custom is to read poetry alone, but we know that from Homer >>> onward, people read it aloud and in groups." >>> >>> By midnight the Zipper Factory was packed and getting fuller -- and >>> rowdier. >>> >>> The fortune teller, bedecked in red scarf and blue plumes, mumbled to >>> someone about "choppy waters." The flamenco duo strummed. The >> Madame, >>> yet another glass of port in hand, introduced poet "whores" in a >> voice >>> suggesting she appreciated more than their literary charms. >>> >>> When Patricia Smith, a well-established poet, took the mike to >>> declaim a long and rhythmical poem about love and making love, there >>> were rock concert cheers from the crowd. >>> >>> "I always shudder when I pray," Smith intoned in a mesmerizing >> voice, >>> "so your name must be a prayer." >>> >>> Even for these bohemians there's no escaping the economic crisis >>> sweeping the country. >>> >>> One of the poets, 22-year-old Nina Cheng, was about to start a job at >>> Bear Stearns this year when the bank collapsed. Now she is writing a >>> play about the experience and applying for a playwright's course at >>> Yale. >>> >>> "I'd thought I'd do banking and get into the arts when I >> retired -- >>> not this early," said Cheng, known at the Brothel as The Opium Eater. >>> >>> Another poetry prostitute, 27-year-old Rachel Herman-Gross, aka >>> Simone, worried that crashing stock markets will pull the rug from >>> under the arts scene. "It's going to be a lot harder. A lot of >> artists >>> are sustained by grants from people with money." >>> >>> But one enthusiastic "client" said the ingenuity of the Poetry >> Brothel >>> proves there are ways to survive. >>> >>> "Money's always been scarce for artists and they're very >> resourceful >>> people," said Edmund Voyer, 54, a hefty man described as an >>> "evangelist" on his business card and who came to the Zipper >> Factory >>> wearing a kilt. >>> >>> His drinking companion, Jennifer Hoa, 27, agreed money and art would >>> always find ways to meet. >>> >>> "I've been a sell-out for years as a corporate lawyer, but I come >>> here," she said. "I can't suppress my artistic side." >>> >>> The Madame promised that the Poetry Brothel welcomed all. >>> >>> "Many are young men with perhaps a secret interest in poems," >> she >>> murmured. "Just look at the menu. Get a recommendation. Or say you >>> don't care. Say: 'I need poetry. I'm hungry.'" >>> >>> ================================== >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & >>> sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: >> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> >> >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: >> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 22:18:25 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Troy Camplin Subject: Re: language v. experimental MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I was responding to the specific posting which is, itself, a lot of white noise. But it sounds like you and I are really not all that far off as to what it is that poetry is and can do. Whether "experimental" or not, one of the primary roles of all the arts is to act as a blaze on the edge of the known and the unknown, breaking new paths. It can sometimes do this, as you suggest, by going back to original meanings -- poetry can and should release us from the stranglehold of political correctness, whether that PC comes from the Left, the Right, or anyone else. It's not so much an issue of "subverting" the meaning of words as opening words up to new (or interesting old) meanings. Poetry is thus expansive. It seems to me that all too often subversion for the sake of subversion is as restrictive as what is being subverted. In the end, poetry has to communicate something for it to have any effectiveness at all. To pick up on my metaphor of blazing a trail, if a poem deals only with what is known, is in known territory, it's really not needed. You don't need a blaze in home territory. But if you are outside of known territory, you are lost. I think too much so-called experimental poetry is outside of known territory. A blaze, to be effective, is right on the edge of the known and the unknown. It creates a new space where once can investigate and claim as home territory without being lost. All great poetry is a blaze. Troy Camplin ________________________________ From: Fluffy Singler To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2009 1:34:59 PM Subject: FW: language v. experimental I'm hopelessly behind on reading the digests, so I hope this isn't so late as to be irrelevant completely. I disagree that it's about white noise. But I do think can be about sound and noise to a degree and also about effect. Much of what I've read on here about experimentalism in poetry is about the experiment itself but rarely about what we hope to accomplish when we experiment, what our relationship is to the reader or listener. I personally believe this comes from what I think of as a confessionalist ethos, the idea that poetry is about the self-expression of the poet, whether it's the expression of the poet's experimental inquiries or the poet's subjectivity and feelings. For me the point of work that you might categorize as "white noise" and subverting the meaning of words is to scramble and reorganize the way we process language. My belief is that in a world in which language is constantly misused and used against us--in a world that is virtually composed of Orwellian newspeak, in which we are assaulted by the specious "logic" of advertising and political language, the insidious ways that our deepest beliefs and values are perverted, that rewiring the way we process language is vital and poetry is the one art form that is poised to do so because of the way in which language can be used to create surrealistic images, unusual sound associations, and help all of us who hear and read the work to develop our ability for creative response to the world around us. There are so many literary forms well-suited to didacticism and even to descriptive work, but few that have the freedom to experiment with and explode and reconfigure language the way poetry does. -----Original Message----- From: Troy Camplin [mailto:emersoninst@YAHOO.COM] Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 10:00 AM Subject: Re: language v. experimental Words mean things. All this kind of thing attempts to do is turn information into white noise. Troy Camplin ________________________________ From: lanny quarles To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 10:10:19 AM Subject: Re: language v. experimental While I respect the deep feeling and intellectual fervor of the spirit of such a debate, the issue is one of cultural semantics. Biologically, the probability gradient such a debate represents in terms of the physical combinatorics of essence in one versus the other, ie the quality of difference in substance, would seem to render either both equally interesting. What is interesting to me is to develope practices, which, though seeming externally to be 'experimental' or 'avant-garde' are actually post-semantic emblematicisms harking much closer to a kind of hermetic hieroglyphics as represented by a system like Gerhard Dorn's in his ON THE MONARCHY OF THE TERNARY IN UNITY, VERSUS THE SINGLE COMBAT OF THE DYAD CONFUSED IN THE MULTITUDE, which iconistically echoes the semiotic mantic (manic tic) of our singularly self-involved world and collective cultus. I am of the same local phenomenon as the mimi virus. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimivirus I own a can of "Blow Off Duster" for removing tiny dust particles, of which some are probably my own sloughed off microparticles, namelessly rejoining the great flotsam of the grating work. I don't call it the great work, because it is tiny, Horton hears a hoo tiny, but grate, because a grate is like a grille, or a gryllus, an oddly elegant little monster built willy nilly from various parts to represent the thing it thought it needed to represent at the time. Also grating can be annoying. http://www.blowoff.com/blowoff/duster.html Lanny Quarles http://jellybeanweirdo.blogspot.com/ http://pnoise.blogspot.com/ http://www.phaneron.blogspot.com/ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 23:04:43 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Gwyn McVay Subject: Re: hockey violence (was poetry brothel) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 5:56 PM, Daniel Zimmerman wrote: > Gwyn, > > ( &c.). > > Could we talk about poetry now? > > ~ Dan Zimmerman > > Oh snap. I got told. Convincing reductio ad absurdum is convincing, as always. Sleet glazes all, triumphantly. Gwyn ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 23:11:52 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory Comments: To: amyhappens@yahoo.com In-Reply-To: <373455.2135.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit yes & almost all prostitutes--something like 90%--in the US--have been sexually abused as children, & it's the only way they know to get 'love.' On 12/31/08 2:57 PM, "amy king" wrote: > How very kind of you to acknowledge there "might be a case." However, how > common too to respond to the notion that prostitution is harmful to *women* on > so many levels and to avoid the notion that this harm is namely done by men by > equating some thin comparison with the "harm" done to men. > > In other words, the only real commonality with your comparison between > football and prostitution is that men also get hurt, mostly physically, and > this fact is what you use to deflect any attention that should be turned on > just how pervasive and strictly gendered the harm done by prostitution is. > Kind of like when women say prostitution is harmful, we're told, 'Well women > choose to be prostitutes!' as though that answer also renders invisible > exactly who is controlling the strings to make prostitution happen -- because > they want that 'service' -- and to avoid the myriad ways men get to abuse the > system they create, uphold and support. > > You better believe if women were the ones paying massive amounts of money and > demanding more gore on the football field, even committing violence against > the players when the impulse struck, there would be a national outcry of the > rape of these players... > > The comparison is something of another strawman meant to detract from actually > examining just who really is committing the violence against women and how > that violence is monetarily fueled by money men earn and spend and how that > violence is not regulated and rarely punished. > > By the way, I've only almost been to the Poetry Brothel and see no harm in the > name as it's clearly a play on brothels that men and women participate in / > simulate in weird ways, is even something of a debunking of the purpose of > brothel. Never been invited to read and would likely find behaving as the > poet-prostitute awkward at best as I'm no good at such simulations. Poor > acting skills on my part, I guess. > > Be well, > > Amy > > > > _______ > > > Recent work > http://www.writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/King.html > > Amy's Alias > http://amyking.org/ > > > --- On Tue, 12/30/08, John Cunningham wrote: > >> From: John Cunningham >> Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Date: Tuesday, December 30, 2008, 9:24 AM >> I suppose one could say you have a case. However, do blacks >> from the ghetto >> really have a choice? Are athletes fully aware? I just saw >> a show on The >> Fifth Estate examining brain injury in pro-football >> athletes. Do >> pro-athletes really want to play hurt - including playing >> with concussions - >> or is it the owners of the teams that insist on it or else >> the athlete loses >> his position. >> John Herbert Cunningham >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Poetics List (UPenn, UB) >> [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On >> Behalf Of Ruth Lepson >> Sent: December 29, 2008 2:39 PM >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory >> >> thank you, gwyn! (but prostitution affects many more >> females than males. >> still, yes, it does affect both & is odious >> everywhere.) >> besides, even if prostitutes were not forced or sold or >> beaten or young or >> broke or threatened every day or exposed to every kind of >> degradation >> instead of being admired as football players are, imagine >> selling your body >> for long-term effects on human being. >> >> >> On 12/27/08 11:05 AM, "Gwyn McVay" >> wrote: >> >>> On Thu, Dec 25, 2008 at 11:25 AM, John Cunningham >> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> For those of you who are speaking out against the >> body being used >>>> in commerce, why are you not speaking out against >> football or hockey >> where >>>> male bodies are being used in commerce? When you >> consider the damage that >>>> is >>>> done to the male body during that contact sport >> and the lingering effects >>>> of >>>> it in terms of permanent injury and disability >> such as arthritis and >> other >>>> diseases, isn't this just as bad? Or is it >> that one affects women whereas >>>> the other affects men? >>> >>> >>> Omigod, you're so right. I hurt in my anterior >> cruciate ligaments for all >> of >>> those men FORCED or DECEIVED into collegiate and >> professional sports every >>> year; BEATEN if they try to leave; often denied any >> other employment >> options >>> in the case of being transgendered; not allowed to >> keep a PENNY of their >>> earnings... oh wait. >>> >>> Gwyn "Also, This Is a False Binary, Because >> Prostitution Affects All >>> Genders, And Not Just Adults" McVay >>> >>> ================================== >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept >> all posts. Check >> guidelines & >>> sub/unsub info: >> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all >> posts. Check guidelines >> & sub/unsub info: >> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> Internal Virus Database is out of date. >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.134 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1533 - Release >> Date: 03/07/2008 >> 7:19 PM >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all >> posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: >> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 23:41:36 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory In-Reply-To: <2B37329EFF6F4560B171E5FF08DDA807@fluffysinglePC> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I think we need to make a distinction between prostitution and the fantasy of prostitution. Most prostitution is compelled or a response to desperation. Most fantasy prostitution, playing dress-up and the like, isn't. At 02:34 PM 1/6/2009, you wrote: >I saw reference in there to men and gigolos. I have a problem with the old >school "sex degrades women" feminist argument. Is a the location of a >brothel and the profession of prostitution *always* and inherently degrading >to women? I thought there were sex-positive feminists who were working >against that idea. > >-----Original Message----- >From: steve russell [mailto:poet_in_hell@YAHOO.COM] >Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 5:49 PM >Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory > >this seems pretty light hearted. >I'm sorry to hear about the wicked (objects, et cetera) capitalist. >i suspect that the most die hard feminist could enjoy her/himself. > >--- On Fri, 12/19/08, mIEKAL aND wrote: >From: mIEKAL aND >Subject: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Date: Friday, December 19, 2008, 4:15 PM > >New York poetry brothel tempts with verse > >Published: Friday December 19, 2008 > >http://rawstory.com/news/afp/New_York_poetry_brothel_tempts_with_12192008.ht >ml > >The prostitute whispers, wets her lips and prepares to bare... her heart >with a >poem. > >Welcome to New York's Poetry Brothel, where punters delve between the >lines, not the sheets. > >At a weekend session in a Manhattan night club called the Zipper Factory the >look was bona fide bordello. > >Literary ladies of the night flitted between intimate, candle-lit nooks, red >lights and paintings of nudes. > >Some of the poetesses for sale sported retro-style garter belts and frilly >knickers. One swanned about in a top hat and feather boa. > >But transactions at the Poetry Brothel are of the mind, not the body, and a >moment with the catalogue, replete with pictures and whimsical descriptions, >reveals what's on offer. > >Page four boasts The Professor, swearing to have heard "the wail of your >striving heart drifting over the spires of skyscrapers." > >Harriett Van Os on page 10 promises to "tell you secrets she doesn't >know she knows." Cecille Ballroom tempts punters on page 13 claiming she >can "coax your drum." > >Gigolo poets are available, not least Poetry Brothel co-founder Nicholas >Adamski, who goes by the name Tennessee Pink and tops tempestuous, dark >looks >with an eye patch. > >"Poetry is what I love more than anything," cooed The Madame, the >sultry spirit behind the whole idea. > >The Madame -- real name Stephanie Berger -- came dressed for the part in >low-cut dress, elbow-length black gloves and a peacock headdress. > >"I'd rather be in the bedroom hearing poetry than listening to some >old man sitting on a chair on a stage," she explained by the light of a >guttering candle. > >One-on-one encounters, for which "clients" pay three to five dollars >in addition to a 15 dollar entry fee and one free reading, took place >upstairs. > >The "whores" read from their own material, much of which is free >verse, making for intense, sometimes baffling performances. > >But for those needing a break, the Poetry Brothel laid on flamenco >guitarists, >a fortune-teller, a blackjack table and a bar specializing in port and >whisky > >The young hedonists, most of them students, appear to have struck a >surprisingly successful formula. > >"There just aren't that many poetry readings where poets show a lot of >cleavage," said The Professor, otherwise known as Jennifer Michael Hecht, >aged 43 and a real life professor at Manhattan's New School. > >She teaches writing to many of the Brothel's regulars and is proud of the >result. > >"It's kind of like the Weimar Republic without the Nazis. At two in >the morning you have 20- or 30-year-olds lying all over the place reading >poetry," she said. > >"The custom is to read poetry alone, but we know that from Homer onward, >people read it aloud and in groups." > >By midnight the Zipper Factory was packed and getting fuller -- and rowdier. > >The fortune teller, bedecked in red scarf and blue plumes, mumbled to >someone >about "choppy waters." The flamenco duo strummed. The Madame, yet >another glass of port in hand, introduced poet "whores" in a voice >suggesting she appreciated more than their literary charms. > >When Patricia Smith, a well-established poet, took the mike to declaim a >long >and rhythmical poem about love and making love, there were rock concert >cheers >from the crowd. > >"I always shudder when I pray," Smith intoned in a mesmerizing voice, >"so your name must be a prayer." > >Even for these bohemians there's no escaping the economic crisis sweeping >the country. > >One of the poets, 22-year-old Nina Cheng, was about to start a job at Bear >Stearns this year when the bank collapsed. Now she is writing a play about >the >experience and applying for a playwright's course at Yale. > >"I'd thought I'd do banking and get into the arts when I retired >-- not this early," said Cheng, known at the Brothel as The Opium Eater. > >Another poetry prostitute, 27-year-old Rachel Herman-Gross, aka Simone, >worried >that crashing stock markets will pull the rug from under the arts scene. >"It's going to be a lot harder. A lot of artists are sustained by >grants from people with money." > >But one enthusiastic "client" said the ingenuity of the Poetry >Brothel proves there are ways to survive. > >"Money's always been scarce for artists and they're very >resourceful people," said Edmund Voyer, 54, a hefty man described as an >"evangelist" on his business card and who came to the Zipper Factory >wearing a kilt. > >His drinking companion, Jennifer Hoa, 27, agreed money and art would always >find ways to meet. > >"I've been a sell-out for years as a corporate lawyer, but I come >here," she said. "I can't suppress my artistic side." > >The Madame promised that the Poetry Brothel welcomed all. > >"Many are young men with perhaps a secret interest in poems," she >murmured. "Just look at the menu. Get a recommendation. Or say you >don't care. Say: 'I need poetry. I'm hungry.'" > >================================== >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines >& sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > >================================== >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines >& sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > >================================== >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 21:47:49 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: George Bowering Subject: Re: hockey violence (was poetry brothel) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed >> some of the least thuggish athletes I've met >> were people I got to know while working at the DC headquarters They aren't all that thuggish at Marvel, either. George Harvey Bowering Fond of many dead people. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 00:58:24 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Alan Sondheim Subject: uke juke MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed uke juke http://www.alansondheim.org/uke0.mp3 http://www.alansondheim.org/uke1.mp3 http://www.alansondheim.org/uke2.mp3 http://www.alansondheim.org/uke3.mp3 http://www.alansondheim.org/uke4.mp3 ukelele tunes, the first recorded with laptop microphone, the others with zoom. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 07:13:51 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Doug Holder Subject: I Will Always Remember It Well: The Chelsea Hotel Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" I Will Always Remember It Well: The Chelsea Hotel =20 I Will Always Remember It Well: The Chelsea Hotel I have always heard and read about the Chelsea Hotel, in the Chelsea Sect= ion=20 of New York City. Recently I visited, and resided for a short stay in thi= s literary=20 landmark. Of course I remember Leonard Cohen=92s lament of a song =93I=20= Remember You Well At The Chelsea Hotel,=94 and Dylan Thomas=92 daughter t= alked=20 to me about her father=92s last days at the Chelsea, (during the time he = drank=20 himself to death), in an interview I conducted with her. The composer Vir= gil=20 Thompson was a long-term resident; Sid Vicious and Nancy were holed up in= a=20 room there, as well as the novelist Thomas Wolfe of =93You Can=92t Go Hom= e=20 Again=94 fame. I am told he wrote for days on end standing up, rather tha= n=20 sitting at a desk. Arthur C. Clarke wrote =932001: A Space Odyssey=94 whi= le=20 staying at the Hotel. The playwright Arthur Miller spent part of his hone= ymoon=20 with Marilyn Monroe at the Chelsea; Bob Dylan stayed there and composed=20= several songs (there was a failed attempt to renovate his room recently).= A=20 friend of mine Philip Segal, a professor of English in NYC, told me over = dinner=20 during my stay at that the Hotel, that he attended several parties at the= =20 Chelsea. The rooms were so small and cramped that the parties spilled out= into=20 the generous halls that were and still are peppered with artwork of all s= tripes.=20 He told me that the space in the hallways is so spacious that a ballet co= mpany=20 practiced there regularly. The Chelsea has a reputation of being a literary and artistic flophouse o= f sorts.=20 A place where the famous, not so famous, the shut-in, the dreamer and the= =20 drifter coexisted. And since I was making a trek to New York to meet with= =20 some fellow poets, I decided to book a room for a few nights. The Chelsea, a twelve story builiding with brick and wrought iron balcony= =20 balustrades, was the first building in NYC to be listed as a cultural pre= servation=20 site and historic building of note. It opened in 1884 as one of the first= private=20 apartment cooperatives. Since 1946, the motel had been managed by the Bar= d=20 family, and since 1955 Stanley Bard ran the joint, until he was ousted by= a=20 management company in 2007. Bard was a much loved manager, presiding=20 benevolently over the residents and the guests who lived there. Bard seem= ed=20 to understand the concept of the starving artist, allowing some to pay re= nt by=20 paintings, etc=85 However the new management is much more bottom line, an= d=20 since Bard left there has been controversy, as residents have mounted a=20= campaign of banners, pranks, and protests toward getting Bard back. Ed=20= Hamilton a resident and author of =93Legends of the Chelsea Hotel=85=94 t= old me=20 that =93Unfortunately, the hotel is no longer accepting permanent residen= ts and=20 that is a shame. The permanent tenants are as important to the hotel as t= he=20 tourists.=94 Upon arriving at the Chelsea my wife and I noticed a guitar store adjacen= t to=20 the hotel was having a =93Bernie Madoff Clearance Sale.=94 Now the lobby = ain=92t=20 your typical Holiday Inn affair. When we entered we saw a man staring=20 intensely at us, looking for all the world like the resurrection of Samue= l=20 Beckett. He was sitting under a suspended paper mache scultpure of a fat=20= lady on a swing. The lobby was full of artworks, murals, etc=85 There was= a=20 painting of an elongated, long-faced Fido, aptly named =93Chelsea Dog=94 = that=20 captured my attention. The front desk looked like a prop from Eugene O=92= Neill=92s=20 play =93Hughie.=94 I saw that play some years ago. It starred the actor J= ason=20 Robards, who played a down-at-the-heels snake oil salesman, living out hi= s=20 failed life, in a failed, gone-to seed hotel. We took a squeaking elevator to our room on the third floor. A balding,=20= distracted gentleman asked my wife if she knew where =93The Shining=94 pa= inting=20 was (based on the Stephen King movie). We didn=92t now but we ran across = it=20 later. The floor we stayed on, and in fact all the floors, are full of ar= twork,=20 many from of the residents. Even the fire extinguishers were adorned with= =20 stickers and graffiti, that made them look like sites of art installation= =85I guess=20 they are. There is an eclectic selection of paintings on the walls in the= gothic=20 halls, including prints of Roy Cohn (of all people), Eisenhower, Jimi Hen= dricks,=20 Hunter Thompson, a beguiling =93Horse On Oil Canvas=94 by Joe Andoe, a ph= oto=20 montage of Andy Warhol and Muhammad Ali, and a huge mural that depicts=20= residents in dialogue: =93Myra Resnick in 308 says the Chelsea rocks!=94 = On the=20 top floor you experience ethereal sky light, and series of suspended mobi= les,=20 wafting images on the ceilings. Forty percent of the rooms are saved for residents, and there is a defini= te=20 sense of community in the place. Ed Hamilton wrote that the Chelsea is=20= the =93Last Outpost of Bohemia.=94 I advise you to visit and make haste/ = the way=20 things are going /there is no time to waste! =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 04:18:00 -0800 Reply-To: storagebag001@yahoo.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Alexander Jorgensen Subject: Re: Visual Poetry online - Thrill! In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://www.necessetics.com/alexander.html A new piece of work appearing at Sous Rature. Must say that I much admire C= ara Benson's hard work and vision. This issue, only its second, is packed w= ith wonderful work. Regards, Alex ---=20 =20 http://www.blackrobertjournal.blogspot.com --- On Tue, 1/6/09, Gary Sullivan wrote: From: Gary Sullivan Subject: Mitch Highfill and Katy Lederer To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 4:13 PM Mitch Highfill & Katy Lederer Wednesday, Jan 7, Poetry Project 2nd Ave & 10th St, NYC, 8:00 pm =20 Mitch Highfill is the author of 7 books of poetry, including Moth Light (Abraham Lincoln) and REBIS (Open Mouth). His work has appeared in OCHO & Critiphoria.=20 =20 Katy Lederer is the author of the poetry collections, Winter Sex (Verse Pre= ss, 2002) and The Heaven-Sent Leaf (BOA Editions, 2008) as well as the memoir P= oker Face: A Girlhood Among Gamblers (Crown, 2003).=20 Mitch will be reading the serial poem, Moth Light, accompanied by Natalia P= aruz on musical saw. =20 Here is some info on Natalia: NATALIA PARUZ, affectionately known as the =91Saw Lady=91, has spent over a decade bringing the rare art form of playing music on a carpenter=92s saw t= o audiences around the world. She performed with the Israel Philharmonic Orch= estra conducted by Zubin Mehta, with the Westchester Philharmonic Orchestra, the = Royal Air Moroccan Symphony Orchestra and at Lincoln Center=92s Avery Fisher Hall= with PDQ Bach composer Peter Schickele and with the Little Orchestra Society. November 2007 marked her Carnegie Hall debut as a musical saw soloist and J= une 2008 marked her Madison Square Garden debut. Television appearances include= FOX (Good Day New York), ABC (Good Morning America), MTV (Andy Milonakis Show),= VH1 (Behind the Music), History Channel (Tool Box), PBS (NY Voices), MSG (NYC Soundtracks). Film appearances include =91Dummy=91 with Adrian Brody. Natalia=92s saw can= be heard on the soundtracks of films such as El Carnaval Sodoma/Arthuro Ripste= in and American Carny. Radio performances include NPR (A Prairie Home Companio= n), XM Satelite Radio & WBAI. Natalia received citations of honor from the New York City Council, the New York State Senate and a medal of honor from Pari= s, France.=20 _________________________________________________________________ It=92s the same Hotmail=AE. If by =93same=94 you mean up to 70% faster. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_broad= 1_122008 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 08:24:17 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Cara Benson Subject: URGENT - poets needed for PEN Prison Writing Contest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable (this top=A0line i'm writing=A0right here is a throwaway line because i sti= ll don't know how to manage a submission to listserv)=0A=A0=0A=A0Here's the= deal, folks.=0A=0ANYC area poets needed tout de suite to help review poetr= y entries for this year's PEN Prison Writing Contest. =0A=0ACan anybody hel= p?=A0=A0=0A=A0=0Aplease backchannel me (I feel so cool saying that. =0A=0A= =A0Thanks!=0A=A0=0A=A0=0A=A0=0A=A0=0A=A0=0A=0A=0A__________=0A=0Ahttp://www= .necessetics.com=0A=0Ahttp://www.necessetics.com/sousrature.html=0A=0A=0A= =0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 12:03:58 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ruth Lepson Subject: prostitution Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable in cambodia, india, belize, thailand, sex slaves=8Bthe slavery of the 21st c. girls are sold sometimes from cages when they are virgins of 10 & 11. most get AIDS within months bec it is believed that sleeping with a virgin can cure a man of it. most don=B9t make it into their 20s. they are tortured, electric shock is used on them to keep them there. they have no hope. they are subjected to violence daily by the men who have sex with them. they liv= e in terror. why? bec of the low esteem in which poor girls are held in those cultures, and for ex in india the gap btwn rich & poor & btwn genders is growing. every year in india 250,000 to 300,000 girls are forced into prostitution. prostitution is based upon the lack of value given to these lives. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 12:12:57 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Praise on the feneon collective Comments: To: Poetryetc poetry and poetics , British & Irish poets Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Newly at http://faitsdiversdelapoesie.blogspot.com/ Comments by poets and scholars Philip Metres, Luc Sante, Jerome Rothenberg, Don Share, Joshua Clover, Tom Raworth, and John Latta. More to come. thank you for reading, --the feneon collective ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 11:25:23 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: Issue 1/Verzion 2 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline can we just -- you know -- write something? -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly@gmail.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 11:51:30 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Martha Cinader Mims Subject: L&BH Network Fresh Literary Content January 7, 2009 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; delsp=yes; format=flowed L&BH Network Fresh Literary Content January 7, 2009 L&BH Bulletin Board sonomaarts on "Call for Contributors to SonomaArts.com" sonomaarts Dec 31, '08, 01:01 PM Call for Contributors! The new SonomaArts.com is in need of regular and guest contributors =20 for new and engaging content. This community arts portal is =20 envisioned as the one-stop destination for arts information =20 pertaining to Sonoma County and beyond. Toward this end, the site =20 managers seek proposals for regular editorial columns (articles of =20 500-1,500 words) and blogs/vlogs/podcasts focused on specific areas =20 of interest within the general categories of Visual Arts, Theater, =20 Dance, Music, Film and Digital Arts, Literary Arts, Arts Education, =20 and the Non-Profit Arts Sector. Columns and blogs/vlogs/podcasts may =20 be informational, critical, or op-ed in nature, with emphasis on =20 trends, exhibitions/events, interviews, etc. Writers, therefore, =20 should be =E2=80=9Cexperts=E2=80=9D in their field, with sufficient = practical, =20 educational, and/or professional experience to ground and =20 contextualize the content they present. That said, the mission of =20 SonomaArts.com is one of broad appeal, so creativity and innovation =20 is encouraged as you pitch your ideal column, blog, vlog, or podcast. GUIDELINES FOR WRITTEN CONTENT Read more=E2=80=A6 L&BH Network Mailing Lists [PCOPWC] Reginald Lockett Tribute on Friday, February 27th - We Need =20 Your Support Kim McMillon [BANG!] Poetry Reading to honor Dr. King and President Elect Obama =20 Martha Cinader Mims L&BH Poetry Cafe Blog Harvest Time michael lee johnson Today, 07:03 PM A M=C3=A9tis Indian lady, drunk, hands blanketed over as in prayer, =20= over a large brown fruit basket naked of fruit, no vine, no vineyard =20 inside=E2=88=92approaches the Edmonton, Alberta adoption agency. There = are =20 only spirit gods inside her empty purse. Inside, an infant, refrained =20= from life, with a fruity wine sap apple wedged like a teaspoon of =20 autumn sun inside its mouth. A shallow pool of tears starts to mount =20 in [...] Read more=E2=80=A6 NO HOLDS BARD 2009 RESOLUTIONS dr. charles frederickson Today, 02:18 PM 20/20 VISION XVIII. Monitor lizards passing as rocks =20 Basking sunbathers carnivorous night prowlers Insects eels =20 crabs birds rodents Scavenger hunt smorgasbord =20 swallowed whole Hissing sinuous spiny tailed =20 undulations Venomous forked tongue lashing =20 out Toothy jaws ripping apart prey Resilient nature =20 licks her wounds Dr. Charles Frederickson (www.poeartry-combo.com) =20 & Saknarin Chinayote (www.poeartrygallery.th.gs) Co-editors of =20 AvantGardeTimes.com Read more=E2=80=A6 O HUMANS ! Dr. T. Ashok Chakravarthy Yesterday, 05:50 PM O Humans ! Let us impart A thought of peace O Humans ! Let us not =20 inject The venom of hatred. Humans are we Humans are we. O Humans ! =20 Let us balm The wounded hearts O Humans ! Let us not incite The =20 notion of revenge. Humans are we Humans are we. O Humans ! Let us =20 project The positive attitude O Humans ! Let us not ignore The poor =20 and hungry. Humans are we Humans are [...] Read more=E2=80=A6 Gingerbread Lady michael lee johnson Monday, 05:22 PM Gingerbread lady, no sugar or cinnamon spice; years ago arthritis =20 and senility took their toll. Crippled mind moves in then out, like =20 an old sexual adventure blurred in an imagination of fingertip =20 thoughts. Who in hell remembers the characters? There was George, her =20= lover, near the bridge at the Chicago River: she missed his funeral; =20 her friends were there. She always made feather-light [...] Read more=E2=80= =A6 NO HOLDS BARD 2009 RESOLUTIONS dr. charles frederickson Monday, 02:54 PM 20/20 VISION I. Springing forth unclenched fist release =20 Burst pods fleshy pulp overspill Nascent buds prematurely =20 forced open Late bloomer rapeseed on =20 hold Nipped thorny pink tea =20 roses Bottled eau de cologne enticing =20 suitors Porcelain petals that never wilt Pipe cleaner =20 stems bent straight Dr. Charles Frederickson (www.poeartry-=20 combo.com) & Saknarin Chinayote (www.poeartrygallery.th.gs) Co-=20 editors of AvantGardeTimes.com Adapted Thai poEtpourri structural =20 scheme 4-line 20-word [...] Read more=E2=80=A6 Martha Cinader Mims Listen & Be Heard Network editor@listenandbeheard.net http://www.listenandbeheard.net Get Skype and call me for free. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 07:30:11 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Steve Glines Subject: Wilderness House Literary Review MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We are pleased to announce that our winter issue is available for viewing: http://www.whlreview.com Cheers Steve Glines ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 14:55:37 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=E9amas_Cain?= Subject: Concrete Poetry of Niikuni Seiichi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline _______________ The National Museum of Art at Osaka, Japan, is presenting an exhibit of "the Concrete Poetry of Niikuni Seiichi : Between Poetry and Art" through Sunday, March 22, 2009. http://www.nmao.go.jp/english/home.html For a biography of Niikuni Seiichi, go to http://www.nmao.go.jp/english/niikuni/index.html For three examples of poems by Niikuni Seiichi, go to http://www.nmao.go.jp/english/niikuni/works/index.html Best regards, S=E9amas Cain http://alazanto.org/seamascain http://seamascain.writernetwork.com http://www.mnartists.org/Seamas_Cain _______________ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 14:10:49 -0800 Reply-To: storagebag001@yahoo.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Alexander Jorgensen Subject: "The Concrete Poetry of Niikuni Seiichi : Between Poetry and Art" In-Reply-To: <494150.28263.qm@web31005.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The National Museum of Art at Osaka, Japan, is presenting an exhibit of "the Concrete Poetry of Niikuni Seiichi : Between Poetry and Art" through Sunday, March 22, 2009. http://www.nmao.go.jp/english/home.html For a biography of Niikuni Seiichi, go to http://www.nmao.go.jp/english/niikuni/index.html For three examples of poems by Niikuni Seiichi, go to http://www.nmao.go.jp/english/niikuni/works/index.html Best regards, S=E9amas Cain http://alazanto.org/seamascain http://seamascain.writernetwork.com http://www.mnartists.org/Seamas_Cain =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 17:40:28 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Peter Ciccariello Subject: moral ground MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline moral ground - Peter Ciccariello http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 17:29:53 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Alan Sondheim Subject: edenic and others MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed edenic and others so a picture book of one of many possibilities, nature in Second Life, presided over by Dojoji creator/inhabiter. or possibility visitor. trees pay obeisance as always. I am Dojoji. http://www.alansondheim.org/treas1.jpg http://www.alansondheim.org/treas2.jpg http://www.alansondheim.org/treas3.jpg http://www.alansondheim.org/treas4.jpg http://www.alansondheim.org/treas5.jpg for Rousseau and Rousseau "if you look at the most recent series for example, which is the treas jpg series at alansondheim.org, you'll find something of the machine in the garden, edenic and repetitive sexuality and habitus (including problematic divisions such as nature/culture, real/ virtual etc.), etc. - hopefully one might think through or experience the juxtapositions." ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 11:01:57 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jamie Reid Subject: More about Billy Little Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" I thought American readers, and particularly some of Billy=92s old friend= s from=20 SUNYAB on this listserv might appreciate a little historical context on m= y=20 earlier posting about the passing of Billy Little.=20 Billy was an early alumnus of the SUNYAB project ,one of at least four=20= Americans related to the literary movement associated with the New Americ= an=20 Poetry anthology who migrated to Canada in the late 1960s and early 1970s= .=20 Robin Blaser, Stan Persky and George Stanley have each made remarkable=20= contributions to the life of the poetry community in Vancouver, and so ha= s=20 Billy Little. Billy was raised in New York and served his apprenticeship = in poetry=20 at the Poetry Project in New York City. He then shuffled off to Buffalo w= here=20 he was one of the early students in the SUNYAB program, where he met=20 Robert Creeley, Jack Clarke, Ed Dorn, Leslie Fiedler and other luminaries= ,=20 including an entire contingent of Canadian poets who had travelled to Buf= falo=20 to learn especially from Olson and Creeley. Billy came to Vancouver as a second generation partisan of the New Americ= an=20 Poetry, as many others had done before him, including those who attended=20= and presided over the Vancouver Poetry Conference of 1963, including Char= les=20 Olson, Robert Creeley, Robert Duncan, Allan Ginsberg, Philip Whalen and=20= others. On his arrival in Vancouver in 1972, Billy fell in immediately wi= th the=20 local contingent of poets and began a residence that lasted for more than= 30=20 years, in which he became a familiar and welcome figure in literary gathe= rings=20 in the city. He performed remarkable deeds for the poetry community of Vancouver, for=20= which not only the poets of the city, but the citizens themselves should = be=20 grateful. In his profession as a second-hand book seller, and as a genuin= e and=20 non-sectarian expert in North American poetry in general, along with his=20= partners in the book trade, he made available to Vancouverites a range of= =20 poetry publications and knowledge which might otherwise have been=20 inaccessible. At Octopus Books and later at R2B2 Books, he was a co- organizer of one of the longest lasting poetry reading series in the city= ,=20 providing a forum for =93outside=94 poets throughout North America, and a= lso a=20 gathering-ground for the local poetry contingent. When he worked at the=20= Special Collections Library at Simon Fraser University (incidentally, one= of the=20 most complete collections related to the poets associated with the New=20= American Poetry), he undertook the task of cataloguing the extensive ouev= re=20 of the revered Canadian poet, bpNichol available at SCL, a genuine servic= e to=20 posterity. He was an indefatigable publisher of samizdat style literature, consisten= t with=20 his belief that poetry should be a kind of action which might help to mak= e a=20 better world. In this role, he was an ardent publicist and promoter of ou= r local=20 poets. All this apart from his wonderful store of poetry lore and knowled= ge,=20 second to none in the city, which made his influence on the local scene t= ruly=20 incalculable. During his final years he lived on the idyllic Hornby Islan= d, just off=20 the coast. The island has been one of the unknown havens of some of=20 Canada=92s finest artists, some well-known, like Jack Shadbolt and Wayne = Ngan;=20 others, like Jerry Pethick and Gordon Payne, barely discovered, or waitin= g to=20 be discovered. Billy was their friend and sometimes advisor, because he k= new=20 and understood a lot. Mostly, I guess, I just wanted to say that like other Vancouver poets, I=92= m=20 grateful for the presence of Billy in our city as a representative of wha= t is best=20 in the American character and culture, from which we have all learned and= =20 taken heart. For his remaining friends at Buffalo, and for others who mig= ht be=20 interested, I=92d like to post this brief memoir poem about Ed Dorn compo= sed by=20 Billy, because it seems to me to provide a wise and welcome reminder of o= ur=20 real place in the world. The attachment contains a video documenting the launch of Billy=92s sole=20= conventional publication, a collection of poems entitled St. Ink. The boo= k was=20 the result of a coming together of some of Billy's many friends so as to = be able=20 to present him with the kind of tribute we felt that he deserved. It cont= ains=20 his own sharp disclaimer of the book publishing process as a means of mak= ing=20 poetry usefully available, and his preference for the self-publishing sam= izdat=20 style of immediate publication. Here=92s the poem about Ed Dorn. : stuck his neck out (for joe and charlie) i love this photo of ed dorn a ghost before he died his neck so thin his tie seemed just his neck continuing outside his shirt as if he were neck clear to his belly button what i mean is thousands should have filled streets the day of his funeral if we were truly greeks real democrats smashing limousine windows in his honour, banks in flames he should have been taken by train back to idaho by way of gloucester and kent state and lawrence and san francisco and the skagit valley ed dorn is the poet chaplin always hoped to be the poet john adams cried out for the poet with the six foot ear the last time i saw ed over salmon and corn in bob and mary's backyard ed caught me assuming all the world knew and thought highly of Charles Olson and William Carlos Williams "billy," he said, "who even heard of these people?" =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 11:50:14 -1000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Tinfish Press Subject: Happy New Year from Tinfish Press in Kane`ohe, Hawai`i MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Happy new year, friends of Tinfish Press! Tinfish Press depends on the curiosity of its readers for revenues that enable us to continue publishing works of experimental poetry from the Pacific. Our journal comes out once a year. Besides providing an anthology of important work from the Pacific (our most recent, #18, was devoted to long poems), each issue is a work of art, constructed of recycled materials and innovative graphic designs. We also publish chapbooks and full length books. If you teach, please consider "adopting" our books and journal issues for your courses. They teach well and fill the holes in many standard poetry curriculum. Our authors write from Hawai`i, the west coast of the American continent, Australia, Aotearoa / New Zealand, and elsewhere. For more information on us, please go to www.tinfishpress.com and consider subscribing today! ($25 for three issues, available on-line or at our street address.) We are also pleased that Sarith Peou's *Corpse Watching* (2007) is a 2008 Asian American Literary Award for Poetry finalist. This book offers an evocative witness to the Cambodian holocaust of the late 1970s. Designed by Lian Lederman (with a foreword by Ed Bok Lee), *Corpse Watching* also features photographs from Tuol Sleng prison, where thousands of Cambodians were killed by the Khmer Rouge (images provided by the Cambodia Documentation Center). Reprints are now available for purchase. $12 each, available on-line from www.tinfishpress.com. Begin your 2009 with our journal and books. We wish you the best for this new year! Aloha, Susan Edit girl -- Susan M. Schultz Editor, Tinfish Press www.tinfishpress.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 19:05:21 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: George Bowering Subject: Re: More about Billy Little In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed Well said, Jamie. GB On Jan 7, 2009, at 8:01 AM, Jamie Reid wrote: > I thought American readers, and particularly some of Billy=92s old =20 > friends from > SUNYAB on this listserv might appreciate a little historical =20 > context on my > earlier posting about the passing of Billy Little. > > Billy was an early alumnus of the SUNYAB project ,one of at least four > Americans related to the literary movement associated with the New =20 > American > Poetry anthology who migrated to Canada in the late 1960s and early =20= > 1970s. > Robin Blaser, Stan Persky and George Stanley have each made remarkable > contributions to the life of the poetry community in Vancouver, and =20= > so has > Billy Little. Billy was raised in New York and served his =20 > apprenticeship in poetry > at the Poetry Project in New York City. He then shuffled off to =20 > Buffalo where > he was one of the early students in the SUNYAB program, where he met > Robert Creeley, Jack Clarke, Ed Dorn, Leslie Fiedler and other =20 > luminaries, > including an entire contingent of Canadian poets who had travelled =20 > to Buffalo > to learn especially from Olson and Creeley. > > Billy came to Vancouver as a second generation partisan of the New =20 > American > Poetry, as many others had done before him, including those who =20 > attended > and presided over the Vancouver Poetry Conference of 1963, =20 > including Charles > Olson, Robert Creeley, Robert Duncan, Allan Ginsberg, Philip Whalen =20= > and > others. On his arrival in Vancouver in 1972, Billy fell in =20 > immediately with the > local contingent of poets and began a residence that lasted for =20 > more than 30 > years, in which he became a familiar and welcome figure in literary =20= > gatherings > in the city. > > He performed remarkable deeds for the poetry community of =20 > Vancouver, for > which not only the poets of the city, but the citizens themselves =20 > should be > grateful. In his profession as a second-hand book seller, and as a =20 > genuine and > non-sectarian expert in North American poetry in general, along =20 > with his > partners in the book trade, he made available to Vancouverites a =20 > range of > poetry publications and knowledge which might otherwise have been > inaccessible. At Octopus Books and later at R2B2 Books, he was a co- > organizer of one of the longest lasting poetry reading series in =20 > the city, > providing a forum for =93outside=94 poets throughout North America, = and =20 > also a > gathering-ground for the local poetry contingent. When he worked at =20= > the > Special Collections Library at Simon Fraser University =20 > (incidentally, one of the > most complete collections related to the poets associated with the New > American Poetry), he undertook the task of cataloguing the =20 > extensive ouevre > of the revered Canadian poet, bpNichol available at SCL, a genuine =20 > service to > posterity. > > He was an indefatigable publisher of samizdat style literature, =20 > consistent with > his belief that poetry should be a kind of action which might help =20 > to make a > better world. In this role, he was an ardent publicist and promoter =20= > of our local > poets. All this apart from his wonderful store of poetry lore and =20 > knowledge, > second to none in the city, which made his influence on the local =20 > scene truly > incalculable. During his final years he lived on the idyllic Hornby =20= > Island, just off > the coast. The island has been one of the unknown havens of some of > Canada=92s finest artists, some well-known, like Jack Shadbolt and =20 > Wayne Ngan; > others, like Jerry Pethick and Gordon Payne, barely discovered, or =20 > waiting to > be discovered. Billy was their friend and sometimes advisor, =20 > because he knew > and understood a lot. > > Mostly, I guess, I just wanted to say that like other Vancouver =20 > poets, I=92m > grateful for the presence of Billy in our city as a representative =20 > of what is best > in the American character and culture, from which we have all =20 > learned and > taken heart. For his remaining friends at Buffalo, and for others =20 > who might be > interested, I=92d like to post this brief memoir poem about Ed Dorn =20= > composed by > Billy, because it seems to me to provide a wise and welcome =20 > reminder of our > real place in the world. > > The attachment contains a video documenting the launch of Billy=92s = sole > conventional publication, a collection of poems entitled St. Ink. =20 > The book was > the result of a coming together of some of Billy's many friends so =20 > as to be able > to present him with the kind of tribute we felt that he deserved. =20 > It contains > his own sharp disclaimer of the book publishing process as a means =20 > of making > poetry usefully available, and his preference for the self-=20 > publishing samizdat > style of immediate publication. Here=92s the poem about Ed Dorn. > : > > stuck his neck out > (for joe and charlie) > > i love this photo of ed dorn > a ghost before he died > his neck so thin > his tie seemed > just > his neck > continuing > outside his shirt > as if > he were neck > clear to his belly button > > what i mean is thousands > should have filled streets > the day of his funeral > if we were truly greeks > real democrats > > smashing limousine windows > in his honour, banks in flames > he should have been taken by train > back to idaho > by way of gloucester > and kent state and lawrence > and san francisco > and the skagit valley > > ed dorn is the poet chaplin > always hoped to be > the poet john adams cried out for > the poet with the six foot ear > > the last time i saw ed > over salmon and corn > in bob and mary's backyard > ed caught me assuming > all the world knew and thought highly of > Charles Olson and William Carlos Williams > "billy," he said, > "who even heard of these people?" > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check =20 > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/=20 > welcome.html > George Bowering, esq. Not a morning kind of guy. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 20:33:44 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: lanny quarles Subject: Recently on Jellybean Weirdo and Phaneronoemikon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Recently on Phaneronoemikon: Sax Leechd dwine Meng Chiao's Owls Shallowly Grieving The Convergin... Boonique Poem about Poetry. Actin' Moving Toward Asymmetry Why I Wall Elways Boo Wetter Than Ill of Hue. http://phaneron.blogspot.com/ Recently on Jellybean Weirdo: Deep Fried Gaza Strips. Once Upon a Ringtone So Dojoboner, So Earnipple Pe... goth-loli maids (2008) dwine broodth Dad's Tijuana Brass Sideburns possibly or maybe is what Tom would always say OMG BFF LOL Callow Rose Something from Bob Brueckl.. LETTERS ALL WASHED OFF. TOM BOBBINS + ZE = FUHJI A Hosehead's Ray http://jellybeanweirdo.blogspot.com/ Lanny Quarles http://www.hevanet.com/solipsis/ A four-wheel drive mud amoeba installer technician latte' drinks its own longbongdong whiskey's cellphone's ringthong Jimminy Kricket said "gryllust's last largesse"... A germane capriccio makes a raw tuna golem take up texting to torque the world's resources, an amoeba dolphin colophon orgy ensues with 'scolon-phoenixs'.. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 21:26:21 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Troy Camplin Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I think prostitution should be legalized precisely because of all the problems that come about precisely because it's not legal and because in a free market, two free adults should be able to enter into any sort of relationship they desire, whether that be employee-employer, prostitute-client, artist-patron, or any other sort of relationship. Prostitution is no different than a woman who has sex with a guy she has no intention of seeing again after accepting an expensive dinner and some drinks from him -- only she gets the money directly, and can use the money (hopefully) more wisely. So you think that it's a different kind of work only because genitalia are involved? It's labor using a different set of muscles is all. Troy Camplin ________________________________ From: Ruth Lepson To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2009 10:04:06 PM Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory I guess I must be 200 years old--does nobody else agree that it's common sense that prostitution is essentially different from other kinds of 'work'? On 12/23/08 10:00 PM, "Adam Tobin" wrote: > Why is the capitalist exploitation of women at a brothel worse than, say, > the capitalist exploitation of women at a Zipper Factory? It's just a > different kind of labor, no? Given that some artists are seemingly > comfortable with capitalism, why should they not acknowledge it in the name > of their ventures? > > I understand, of course, that brothels have a particular history with a > particular kind of violence attached to it, but so do factories. Do you > direct the same righteous anger at Andy Warhol? > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Poetics List (UPenn, UB) [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > Behalf Of Ruth Lepson > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 5:01 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory > > brothels about as funny as slavery. > which British feminist? > > > On 12/21/08 1:44 PM, "steve russell" wrote: > >> somewhat related: William Styron, the way he waxes his libido in >> "Sophie's Choice." >> i'm still looking for the book of essays by the British Feminist who >> enlightened me. >> >> --- On Sat, 12/20/08, Ruth Lepson wrote: >> From: Ruth Lepson >> Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Date: Saturday, December 20, 2008, 6:51 PM >> >> cooptation of poetry by capitalist objectification of women. not >> funny. to use a brothel as a metaphor is disgusting. I remember when >> Denise Levertov criticized a poet for using napalm as a metaphor for >> personal pain, saying you don't know what it feels like & it's much >> worse than the way you are characterizing it. >> >> >> On 12/19/08 4:15 PM, "mIEKAL aND" >> wrote: >> >>> New York poetry brothel tempts with verse >>> >>> Published: Friday December 19, 2008 >>> >>> >> http://rawstory.com/news/afp/New_York_poetry_brothel_tempts_with_12192 >> 008.html >>> >>> The prostitute whispers, wets her lips and prepares to bare... her >>> heart with a poem. >>> >>> Welcome to New York's Poetry Brothel, where punters delve between the >>> lines, not the sheets. >>> >>> At a weekend session in a Manhattan night club called the Zipper >>> Factory the look was bona fide bordello. >>> >>> Literary ladies of the night flitted between intimate, candle-lit >>> nooks, red lights and paintings of nudes. >>> >>> Some of the poetesses for sale sported retro-style garter belts and >>> frilly knickers. One swanned about in a top hat and feather boa. >>> >>> But transactions at the Poetry Brothel are of the mind, not the body, >>> and a moment with the catalogue, replete with pictures and whimsical >>> descriptions, reveals what's on offer. >>> >>> Page four boasts The Professor, swearing to have heard "the wail of >>> your striving heart drifting over the spires of skyscrapers." >>> >>> Harriett Van Os on page 10 promises to "tell you secrets she >> doesn't >>> know she knows." Cecille Ballroom tempts punters on page 13 claiming >>> she can "coax your drum." >>> >>> Gigolo poets are available, not least Poetry Brothel co-founder >>> Nicholas Adamski, who goes by the name Tennessee Pink and tops >>> tempestuous, dark looks with an eye patch. >>> >>> "Poetry is what I love more than anything," cooed The Madame, >> the >>> sultry spirit behind the whole idea. >>> >>> The Madame -- real name Stephanie Berger -- came dressed for the part >>> in low-cut dress, elbow-length black gloves and a peacock headdress. >>> >>> "I'd rather be in the bedroom hearing poetry than listening to >> some >>> old man sitting on a chair on a stage," she explained by the light of >>> a guttering candle. >>> >>> One-on-one encounters, for which "clients" pay three to five >> dollars >>> in addition to a 15 dollar entry fee and one free reading, took place >>> upstairs. >>> >>> The "whores" read from their own material, much of which is free >>> verse, making for intense, sometimes baffling performances. >>> >>> But for those needing a break, the Poetry Brothel laid on flamenco >>> guitarists, a fortune-teller, a blackjack table and a bar >>> specializing in port and whisky >>> >>> The young hedonists, most of them students, appear to have struck a >>> surprisingly successful formula. >>> >>> "There just aren't that many poetry readings where poets show a >> lot of >>> cleavage," said The Professor, otherwise known as Jennifer Michael >>> Hecht, aged 43 and a real life professor at Manhattan's New School. >>> >>> She teaches writing to many of the Brothel's regulars and is proud of >>> the result. >>> >>> "It's kind of like the Weimar Republic without the Nazis. At two >> in >>> the morning you have 20- or 30-year-olds lying all over the place >>> reading poetry," she said. >>> >>> "The custom is to read poetry alone, but we know that from Homer >>> onward, people read it aloud and in groups." >>> >>> By midnight the Zipper Factory was packed and getting fuller -- and >>> rowdier. >>> >>> The fortune teller, bedecked in red scarf and blue plumes, mumbled to >>> someone about "choppy waters." The flamenco duo strummed. The >> Madame, >>> yet another glass of port in hand, introduced poet "whores" in a >> voice >>> suggesting she appreciated more than their literary charms. >>> >>> When Patricia Smith, a well-established poet, took the mike to >>> declaim a long and rhythmical poem about love and making love, there >>> were rock concert cheers from the crowd. >>> >>> "I always shudder when I pray," Smith intoned in a mesmerizing >> voice, >>> "so your name must be a prayer." >>> >>> Even for these bohemians there's no escaping the economic crisis >>> sweeping the country. >>> >>> One of the poets, 22-year-old Nina Cheng, was about to start a job at >>> Bear Stearns this year when the bank collapsed. Now she is writing a >>> play about the experience and applying for a playwright's course at >>> Yale. >>> >>> "I'd thought I'd do banking and get into the arts when I >> retired -- >>> not this early," said Cheng, known at the Brothel as The Opium Eater. >>> >>> Another poetry prostitute, 27-year-old Rachel Herman-Gross, aka >>> Simone, worried that crashing stock markets will pull the rug from >>> under the arts scene. "It's going to be a lot harder. A lot of >> artists >>> are sustained by grants from people with money." >>> >>> But one enthusiastic "client" said the ingenuity of the Poetry >> Brothel >>> proves there are ways to survive. >>> >>> "Money's always been scarce for artists and they're very >> resourceful >>> people," said Edmund Voyer, 54, a hefty man described as an >>> "evangelist" on his business card and who came to the Zipper >> Factory >>> wearing a kilt. >>> >>> His drinking companion, Jennifer Hoa, 27, agreed money and art would >>> always find ways to meet. >>> >>> "I've been a sell-out for years as a corporate lawyer, but I come >>> here," she said. "I can't suppress my artistic side." >>> >>> The Madame promised that the Poetry Brothel welcomed all. >>> >>> "Many are young men with perhaps a secret interest in poems," >> she >>> murmured. "Just look at the menu. Get a recommendation. Or say you >>> don't care. Say: 'I need poetry. I'm hungry.'" >>> >>> ================================== >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & >>> sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: >> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> >> >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: >> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 03:00:11 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: hockey violence (was poetry brothel) In-Reply-To: <75acdde00901050846u3409ce3dh2f6b21206c14364b@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry Gwyn. Didn't mean to impune those with mental retardation, just those who think fighting's OK in hockey. Not trying to hijack the thread. ja http://vispo.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 04:04:15 -0800 Reply-To: storagebag001@yahoo.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Alexander Jorgensen Subject: Visual Poetry - VISPO - Poll In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For an upcoming issue of Black Robert Journal, I would like to include a nu= mber of statements related to visual poetry. Your participation will most s= incerely be appreciated in what is an effort to explore the various motivat= ions and ideas related to contemporary vispo. As Managing Editor, my hope i= s to include a myriad of thoughts.=20 Please back channel all responses. Question: What is visual poetry - its form and purpose?=20 Regards, Alexander Jorgensen=A0=20 =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 07:50:24 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ken Rumble Subject: Fwd: Start the New Year Off Right... In-Reply-To: <6dc3c4ea0901041901g4f17b569y9bf8e59b8fa8c583@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Magdalena Zurawski Date: Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 10:01 PM Subject: Start the New Year Off Right... Minor American Poetry Reading Series Rachel Blau DuPlessis & Adeena Karasick January 10, 2008 -- 8pm LOCATION (Ken Rumble): 500 n. duke st apt. 55-204 (go to the 55 & 54 awning and hit the 55-204 buzzer) Hosted by Ken & Violet Rumble Curated by Magdalena Zurawski *Rachel Blau DuPlessis* is the author of eleven books of poetry; her long poem project, begun in 1986, is collected as *Drafts 1-38, Toll, *from Wesleyan University Press, as well as *DRAFTS Drafts 39-57, Pledge, with Draft, unnumbered: Pr=E9cis *and *Torques: Drafts 58-76*, both from Salt Publishing. salt Modern Poets). DuPlessis is also known for her innovative essays in *The Pink Guitar: Writing as Feminist Practice* and *Blue Studios= : Poetry and Its Cultural Work*. She is the editor of *The Selected Letters o= f George Oppen* (Duke, 1990) and co-editor of *The Objectivist Nexus: Essays in Cultural Poetics*. Her critical books include *Genders, Races, and Religious Cultures in Modern American Poetry, 1908-1934* (Cambridge, 2001). DuPlessis has received the Roy Harvey Pearce / Archive for New Poetry Prize (2002) as a scholar poet. In 2002 she was awarded a Pew Fellowship for Artists. ****** *Adeena Karasick* (www.adeenakarasick.com ) is an internationally acclaimed and award winning poet, media-artist and author of six books of poetry and poetic theory: *The House That Hijack Built* (Talonbooks, 2004), *The Arugula Fugues* (Zasterle Press, 2001), *Dyssemia Sleaze* (Talonbooks, Spring 2000), *Genrecide* (Talonbooks, 1996), * Memewars* (Talonbooks, 1994), and *The Empress Has No Closure* (Talonbooks, 1992), as well as 4 videopoems all available on YouTube. All her work is marked with an urban, Jewish, feminist aesthetic that continually challenge= s linguistic habits and normative modes of meaning production. Engaged with the art of combination and turbulence of thought, her work is a testament t= o the creative and regenerative power of language and its infinite possibilities for pushing meaning to the limits of its semantic boundaries. For over 20 years her linguistically provocative, philosophically complex wordplay continues to excite audiences nationally, internationally and locally, and she has recently been granted the MPS Mobile Award as being th= e world's first "Mobile Poet" whereby her work is being made available on mobile devices (cell phones and smart phones) throughout the world. Her writing has been described as "electricity in language" (Nicole Brossard) "plural, cascading, exuberant in its cross-fertilization of punning and knowing, theatre and theory" (Charles Bernstein) "a tour de force of linguistic doublespeak" (Globe and Mail) "and opens up the possibilities of reading" (Vancouver Courier). She is Professor of Poetry and Cultural Theory at City University of New York. Forthcoming (April 2009) is *Amuse Bouche: Tasty Treats for the Mouth* (April, Talonbooks 2009). --=20 Check out my book Key Bridge: http://www.carolinawrenpress.org/books.html And I'm on the road giving readings!: TBA Reviews of Key Bridge: Ron Silliman: http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2007/04/i-know-ken-rumble-originally-from-h= is.html Kevin Killian: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/0932112544/ref=3Dcm_cr_dp= _all_top/002-7537401-5750437?ie=3DUTF8&n=3D283155&s=3Dbooks#customerReviews And projects: http://durhamhastheworstroadsintheworld.blogspot.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 11:16:26 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Sarah Sarai Subject: Re: 88 Constellations for Wittgenstein by David Clark Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain Thank you for posting 88 Constellations for Wittgenstein link. Stunning. = Will observe all 88=20 in eternal sky of cyberspace.=20=20=20 "story-telling as browsing" (per blurb) poetry as browsing, too.=20=20=20= =20=20=20 Left hand? The icon on the upper left, in each of the 88, navigates back= to the menu (I add=20 for people like me who panic when they think they're trapped in a room, c= yber all the=20 scarier).=20=20 88 CONSTELLATIONS FOR WITTGENSTEIN (TO BE PLAYED WITH THE LEFT HAND) http://88constellations.net (original posted by Jim Clark) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 15:03:29 -0800 Reply-To: amyhappens@yahoo.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: amy king Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory In-Reply-To: <522076.23006.qm@web46215.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is so wrong-headed, Troy, that I don't even know where to begin.=A0 I'= m not talking about the debate over legalizing prostitution; I'm referring = to your reductive, ridiculously simplistic rationale: =A0 Prostitution is j= ust anatomy, Troy?=A0 That's right in line with your reasoning that you can= 't possibly be racist because you're married to a minority.=A0 Some news, T= roy:=A0 you can be racist even if you are a minority!=A0 Ever heard of a se= lf-loathing [insert your label here]?=A0 I can even be homophobic while bei= ng a lesbian!=A0=A0 Such a reductionist claim is the primary pillar used to= defend prostitution by the men who use and abuse the women stuck in that s= ystem, happily ignoring the psychological damage they pay to "work" these w= omen -- "it's just anatomy" allows these guys to revel in the role they pla= y in maintaining and enjoying such a crappy system that preys upon the syst= ematic abuse of girls and women as well as economically-deprived women, who end up stuck using "a different set of muscles" to sustain themselves and = likely their children whose father is nowhere to be seen, except possibly i= n one of those lines now asking the government to bail himself and his favo= rite industry out (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/07/porn-bailout-la= rry-flynt_n_155878.html ).=A0=A0 Let those fathers and men turn to prostitu= tion, then!=A0 It's just anatomy, after all.=A0=20 Amy _______ Recent work http://www.writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/King.html Amy's Alias http://amyking.org/ --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Troy Camplin wrote: From: Troy Camplin Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 12:26 AM I think prostitution should be legalized precisely because of all the probl= ems that come about precisely because it's not legal and because in a free market, two free adults should be able to enter into any sort of relationsh= ip they desire, whether that be employee-employer, prostitute-client, artist-patron, or any other sort of relationship. Prostitution is no differ= ent than a woman who has sex with a guy she has no intention of seeing again af= ter accepting an expensive dinner and some drinks from him -- only she gets the money directly, and can use the money (hopefully) more wisely. So you think= that it's a different kind of work only because genitalia are involved? It's labor using a different set of muscles is all. Troy Camplin ________________________________ From: Ruth Lepson To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2009 10:04:06 PM Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory I guess I must be 200 years old--does nobody else agree that it's common sense that prostitution is essentially different from other kinds of 'work'? On 12/23/08 10:00 PM, "Adam Tobin" wrote: > Why is the capitalist exploitation of women at a brothel worse than, say, > the capitalist exploitation of women at a Zipper Factory? It's just a > different kind of labor, no? Given that some artists are seemingly > comfortable with capitalism, why should they not acknowledge it in the name > of their ventures? >=20 > I understand, of course, that brothels have a particular history with a > particular kind of violence attached to it, but so do factories. Do you > direct the same righteous anger at Andy Warhol? >=20 >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Poetics List (UPenn, UB) [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > Behalf Of Ruth Lepson > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 5:01 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory >=20 > brothels about as funny as slavery. > which British feminist? >=20 >=20 > On 12/21/08 1:44 PM, "steve russell" wrote: >=20 >> somewhat related: William Styron, the way he waxes his libido in >> "Sophie's Choice." >> i'm still looking for the book of essays by the British Feminist who >> enlightened me. >>=20 >> --- On Sat, 12/20/08, Ruth Lepson wrote: >> From: Ruth Lepson >> Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Date: Saturday, December 20, 2008, 6:51 PM >>=20 >> cooptation of poetry by capitalist objectification of women. not >> funny. to use a brothel as a metaphor is disgusting. I remember when >> Denise Levertov criticized a poet for using napalm as a metaphor for >> personal pain, saying you don't know what it feels like & it's much >> worse than the way you are characterizing it. >>=20 >>=20 >> On 12/19/08 4:15 PM, "mIEKAL aND" >> wrote: >>=20 >>> New York poetry brothel tempts with verse >>>=20 >>> Published: Friday December 19, 2008 >>>=20 >>>=20 >> http://rawstory.com/news/afp/New_York_poetry_brothel_tempts_with_12192 >> 008.html >>>=20 >>> The prostitute whispers, wets her lips and prepares to bare... her >>> heart with a poem. >>>=20 >>> Welcome to New York's Poetry Brothel, where punters delve between the >>> lines, not the sheets. >>>=20 >>> At a weekend session in a Manhattan night club called the Zipper >>> Factory the look was bona fide bordello. >>>=20 >>> Literary ladies of the night flitted between intimate, candle-lit >>> nooks, red lights and paintings of nudes. >>>=20 >>> Some of the poetesses for sale sported retro-style garter belts and >>> frilly knickers. One swanned about in a top hat and feather boa. >>>=20 >>> But transactions at the Poetry Brothel are of the mind, not the body, >>> and a moment with the catalogue, replete with pictures and whimsical >>> descriptions, reveals what's on offer. >>>=20 >>> Page four boasts The Professor, swearing to have heard "the wail of >>> your striving heart drifting over the spires of skyscrapers." >>>=20 >>> Harriett Van Os on page 10 promises to "tell you secrets she >> doesn't >>> know she knows." Cecille Ballroom tempts punters on page 13 claiming >>> she can "coax your drum." >>>=20 >>> Gigolo poets are available, not least Poetry Brothel co-founder >>> Nicholas Adamski, who goes by the name Tennessee Pink and tops >>> tempestuous, dark looks with an eye patch. >>>=20 >>> "Poetry is what I love more than anything," cooed The Madame, >> the >>> sultry spirit behind the whole idea. >>>=20 >>> The Madame -- real name Stephanie Berger -- came dressed for the part >>> in low-cut dress, elbow-length black gloves and a peacock headdress. >>>=20 >>> "I'd rather be in the bedroom hearing poetry than listening to >> some >>> old man sitting on a chair on a stage," she explained by the light of >>> a guttering candle. >>>=20 >>> One-on-one encounters, for which "clients" pay three to five >> dollars >>> in addition to a 15 dollar entry fee and one free reading, took place >>> upstairs. >>>=20 >>> The "whores" read from their own material, much of which is free >>> verse, making for intense, sometimes baffling performances. >>>=20 >>> But for those needing a break, the Poetry Brothel laid on flamenco >>> guitarists, a fortune-teller, a blackjack table and a bar >>> specializing in port and whisky >>>=20 >>> The young hedonists, most of them students, appear to have struck a >>> surprisingly successful formula. >>>=20 >>> "There just aren't that many poetry readings where poets show a >> lot of >>> cleavage," said The Professor, otherwise known as Jennifer Michael >>> Hecht, aged 43 and a real life professor at Manhattan's New School. >>>=20 >>> She teaches writing to many of the Brothel's regulars and is proud of >>> the result. >>>=20 >>> "It's kind of like the Weimar Republic without the Nazis. At two >> in >>> the morning you have 20- or 30-year-olds lying all over the place >>> reading poetry," she said. >>>=20 >>> "The custom is to read poetry alone, but we know that from Homer >>> onward, people read it aloud and in groups." >>>=20 >>> By midnight the Zipper Factory was packed and getting fuller -- and >>> rowdier. >>>=20 >>> The fortune teller, bedecked in red scarf and blue plumes, mumbled to >>> someone about "choppy waters." The flamenco duo strummed. The >> Madame, >>> yet another glass of port in hand, introduced poet "whores" in a >> voice >>> suggesting she appreciated more than their literary charms. >>>=20 >>> When Patricia Smith, a well-established poet, took the mike to >>> declaim a long and rhythmical poem about love and making love, there >>> were rock concert cheers from the crowd. >>>=20 >>> "I always shudder when I pray," Smith intoned in a mesmerizing >> voice, >>> "so your name must be a prayer." >>>=20 >>> Even for these bohemians there's no escaping the economic crisis >>> sweeping the country. >>>=20 >>> One of the poets, 22-year-old Nina Cheng, was about to start a job at >>> Bear Stearns this year when the bank collapsed. Now she is writing a >>> play about the experience and applying for a playwright's course at >>> Yale. >>>=20 >>> "I'd thought I'd do banking and get into the arts when I >> retired -- >>> not this early," said Cheng, known at the Brothel as The Opium Eater. >>>=20 >>> Another poetry prostitute, 27-year-old Rachel Herman-Gross, aka >>> Simone, worried that crashing stock markets will pull the rug from >>> under the arts scene. "It's going to be a lot harder. A lot of >> artists >>> are sustained by grants from people with money." >>>=20 >>> But one enthusiastic "client" said the ingenuity of the Poetry >> Brothel >>> proves there are ways to survive. >>>=20 >>> "Money's always been scarce for artists and they're very >> resourceful >>> people," said Edmund Voyer, 54, a hefty man described as an >>> "evangelist" on his business card and who came to the Zipper >> Factory >>> wearing a kilt. >>>=20 >>> His drinking companion, Jennifer Hoa, 27, agreed money and art would >>> always find ways to meet. >>>=20 >>> "I've been a sell-out for years as a corporate lawyer, but I come >>> here," she said. "I can't suppress my artistic side." >>>=20 >>> The Madame promised that the Poetry Brothel welcomed all. >>>=20 >>> "Many are young men with perhaps a secret interest in poems," >> she >>> murmured. "Just look at the menu. Get a recommendation. Or say you >>> don't care. Say: 'I need poetry. I'm hungry.'" >>>=20 >>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & >>> sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>=20 >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: >> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: >> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> =20 >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 11:21:32 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Sarah Sarai Subject: Re: 88 Constellations for Wittgenstein by David Clark Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain i meant original posted by jim andrews. i should know better than to type= while staring at=20 heavenly firmament, fixed stars, perseus & co. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 19:26:22 +0100 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Anny Ballardini Subject: The Election Anthology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Obododimma Oha and Anny Ballardini are pleased to announce the new Antholog= y on the Poets' Corner: *While the He/art Pants: Poetic Responses to the 2008 American Elections*. We wish to thank all the contributors who have made it possible, and invite you to read and spread the good news. *=B7* While the He/art Pants:(Poet= ic Responses to the 2008 American Elections) *=B7* Editorial: Obododimma Oha *=B7* Editorial: Anny Ballardini *=B7* Edward Mycue *=B7* Jared Schickling *=B7* Bill Morgan *=B7* John M. Bennett *=B7* Conrad Reeder *=B7* Tom McBride *=B7* Gerald Schwartz *=B7* Farideh Hassanzadeh-Mostafavi *=B7* Russ Golata *=B7* Evelyn Posamentier *=B7* Gina Sangster Hayman *=B7* Matt Johnson *=B7* Susan Bright *=B7* Daniel Zimmerman *=B7* Fan Ogilvie *=B7* Henry Gould *=B7* Carol Novack *=B7* Joseph Duemer *=B7* Peter Ciccariello *=B7* Spencer Selby *=B7* Eugen Galasso *=B7* Grace Cavalieri *=B7* Amy King *=B7 * Halvard Johnson *=B7* Raymond Bianchi *=B7* Lars Palm * =B7* George Spencer *=B7* Bob Grumman *=B7* Wendy Taylor Carlisle *=B7* Br. Tom Murphy *=B7* Annetta L. Gomez-Jefferson *=B7* Uzor Maxim Uzoatu *=B7* Jukka-Pekka Kervinen *=B7* David Howard *=B7* Obiwu *=B7* Afam Akeh *=B7*= Jim Leftwich *=B7* Charles Martin *= =B7* Luc Fierens *= =B7* Eileen Tabios *= =B7* Donna Pecore *=B7* Francesco Levato *= =B7* Tony Trigilio *= =B7* Terri Moore *=B7= * Barbara Crooker *=B7* Vincent Francone *=B7* David-Baptiste Chirot *= =B7* Julene Tripp Weaver *=B7 * Daniela Gioseffi *=B7* Obododimma Oha *=B7* Judith Laura *=B7* While the He/art Pants:(Poet= ic Responses to the 2008 American Elections) http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2664 *=B7* Editorial: Obododimma Oha http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2665 *=B7* Editorial: Anny Ballardini http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2666 *=B7* Edward Mycue http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2671 *=B7* Jared Schickling http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2672 *=B7* Bill Morgan http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2673 *=B7* John M. Bennett http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2674 *=B7* Conrad Reeder http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2675 *=B7* Tom McBride http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2676 *=B7* Gerald Schwartz http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2677 *=B7* Farideh Hassanzadeh-Mostafavi http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2678 *=B7* Russ Golata http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2679 *=B7* Evelyn Posamentier http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2680 *=B7* Gina Sangster Hayman http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2681 *=B7* Matt Johnson http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2682 *=B7* Susan Bright http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2683 *=B7* Daniel Zimmerman http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2684 *=B7* Fan Ogilvie http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2685 *=B7* Henry Gould http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2686 *=B7* Carol Novack http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2687 *=B7* Joseph Duemer http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2688 *=B7* Peter Ciccariello http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2689 *=B7* Spencer Selby http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2690 *=B7* Eugen Galasso http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2691 *=B7* Grace Cavalieri http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2692 *=B7* Amy King http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2693 *=B7* Halvard Johnson http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2695 *=B7* Raymond Bianchi http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2696 *=B7* Lars Palm http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2697 *=B7* George Spencer http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2698 *=B7* Bob Grumman http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2702 *=B7* Wendy Taylor Carlisle http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2703 *=B7* Br. Tom Murphy http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2704 *=B7* Annetta L. Gomez-Jefferson http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2705 *=B7* Uzor Maxim Uzoatu http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2706 *=B7* Jukka-Pekka Kervinen http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2707 *=B7* David Howard http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2708 *=B7* Obiwu http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2709 *=B7* Afam Akeh http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2720 *=B7* Jim Leftwich http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2721 *=B7* Charles Martin http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2722 *=B7* Luc Fierens http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2723 *=B7* Eileen Tabios http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2730 *=B7* Donna Pecore http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2731 *=B7* Francesco Levato http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2739 *=B7* Tony Trigilio http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2740 *=B7* Terri Moore http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2741 *=B7* Barbara Crooker http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2742 *=B7* Vincent Francone http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2743 *=B7* David-Baptiste Chirot http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2755 *=B7* Julene Tripp Weaver http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2756 *=B7* Daniela Gioseffi http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2791 *=B7* Obododimma Oha http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2827 *=B7* Judith Laura http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=3Dprintpage&pid=3D2829 --=20 Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3Dpoetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 10:45:33 -0800 Reply-To: poet_in_hell@yahoo.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve russell Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20090106233341.071c5458@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii interesting distinction: Genet did a number with the fantasy realm. But what, exactly, do you mean, Mark, by the fantasy of prostitution? Phone sex? I suppose that's somewhat harmless. But that ain't the real thing. When it's real, as in the sex trade, we're talking ugly/ugly/ugly. --- On Tue, 1/6/09, Mark Weiss wrote: From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 11:41 PM I think we need to make a distinction between prostitution and the fantasy of prostitution. Most prostitution is compelled or a response to desperation. Most fantasy prostitution, playing dress-up and the like, isn't. At 02:34 PM 1/6/2009, you wrote: >I saw reference in there to men and gigolos. I have a problem with the old >school "sex degrades women" feminist argument. Is a the location of a >brothel and the profession of prostitution *always* and inherently degrading >to women? I thought there were sex-positive feminists who were working >against that idea. > >-----Original Message----- >From: steve russell [mailto:poet_in_hell@YAHOO.COM] >Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 5:49 PM >Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory > >this seems pretty light hearted. >I'm sorry to hear about the wicked (objects, et cetera) capitalist. >i suspect that the most die hard feminist could enjoy her/himself. > >--- On Fri, 12/19/08, mIEKAL aND wrote: >From: mIEKAL aND >Subject: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Date: Friday, December 19, 2008, 4:15 PM > >New York poetry brothel tempts with verse > >Published: Friday December 19, 2008 > >http://rawstory.com/news/afp/New_York_poetry_brothel_tempts_with_12192008.ht >ml > >The prostitute whispers, wets her lips and prepares to bare... her heart >with a >poem. > >Welcome to New York's Poetry Brothel, where punters delve between the >lines, not the sheets. > >At a weekend session in a Manhattan night club called the Zipper Factory the >look was bona fide bordello. > >Literary ladies of the night flitted between intimate, candle-lit nooks, red >lights and paintings of nudes. > >Some of the poetesses for sale sported retro-style garter belts and frilly >knickers. One swanned about in a top hat and feather boa. > >But transactions at the Poetry Brothel are of the mind, not the body, and a >moment with the catalogue, replete with pictures and whimsical descriptions, >reveals what's on offer. > >Page four boasts The Professor, swearing to have heard "the wail of your >striving heart drifting over the spires of skyscrapers." > >Harriett Van Os on page 10 promises to "tell you secrets she doesn't >know she knows." Cecille Ballroom tempts punters on page 13 claiming she >can "coax your drum." > >Gigolo poets are available, not least Poetry Brothel co-founder Nicholas >Adamski, who goes by the name Tennessee Pink and tops tempestuous, dark >looks >with an eye patch. > >"Poetry is what I love more than anything," cooed The Madame, the >sultry spirit behind the whole idea. > >The Madame -- real name Stephanie Berger -- came dressed for the part in >low-cut dress, elbow-length black gloves and a peacock headdress. > >"I'd rather be in the bedroom hearing poetry than listening to some >old man sitting on a chair on a stage," she explained by the light of a >guttering candle. > >One-on-one encounters, for which "clients" pay three to five dollars >in addition to a 15 dollar entry fee and one free reading, took place >upstairs. > >The "whores" read from their own material, much of which is free >verse, making for intense, sometimes baffling performances. > >But for those needing a break, the Poetry Brothel laid on flamenco >guitarists, >a fortune-teller, a blackjack table and a bar specializing in port and >whisky > >The young hedonists, most of them students, appear to have struck a >surprisingly successful formula. > >"There just aren't that many poetry readings where poets show a lot of >cleavage," said The Professor, otherwise known as Jennifer Michael Hecht, >aged 43 and a real life professor at Manhattan's New School. > >She teaches writing to many of the Brothel's regulars and is proud of the >result. > >"It's kind of like the Weimar Republic without the Nazis. At two in >the morning you have 20- or 30-year-olds lying all over the place reading >poetry," she said. > >"The custom is to read poetry alone, but we know that from Homer onward, >people read it aloud and in groups." > >By midnight the Zipper Factory was packed and getting fuller -- and rowdier. > >The fortune teller, bedecked in red scarf and blue plumes, mumbled to >someone >about "choppy waters." The flamenco duo strummed. The Madame, yet >another glass of port in hand, introduced poet "whores" in a voice >suggesting she appreciated more than their literary charms. > >When Patricia Smith, a well-established poet, took the mike to declaim a >long >and rhythmical poem about love and making love, there were rock concert >cheers >from the crowd. > >"I always shudder when I pray," Smith intoned in a mesmerizing voice, >"so your name must be a prayer." > >Even for these bohemians there's no escaping the economic crisis sweeping >the country. > >One of the poets, 22-year-old Nina Cheng, was about to start a job at Bear >Stearns this year when the bank collapsed. Now she is writing a play about >the >experience and applying for a playwright's course at Yale. > >"I'd thought I'd do banking and get into the arts when I retired >-- not this early," said Cheng, known at the Brothel as The Opium Eater. > >Another poetry prostitute, 27-year-old Rachel Herman-Gross, aka Simone, >worried >that crashing stock markets will pull the rug from under the arts scene. >"It's going to be a lot harder. A lot of artists are sustained by >grants from people with money." > >But one enthusiastic "client" said the ingenuity of the Poetry >Brothel proves there are ways to survive. > >"Money's always been scarce for artists and they're very >resourceful people," said Edmund Voyer, 54, a hefty man described as an >"evangelist" on his business card and who came to the Zipper Factory >wearing a kilt. > >His drinking companion, Jennifer Hoa, 27, agreed money and art would always >find ways to meet. > >"I've been a sell-out for years as a corporate lawyer, but I come >here," she said. "I can't suppress my artistic side." > >The Madame promised that the Poetry Brothel welcomed all. > >"Many are young men with perhaps a secret interest in poems," she >murmured. "Just look at the menu. Get a recommendation. Or say you >don't care. Say: 'I need poetry. I'm hungry.'" > >================================== >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines >& sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > >================================== >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines >& sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > >================================== >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 14:10:46 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=E9amas_Cain?= Subject: Radiator festival & satellite events MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline _______________ RADIATOR: EXPLOITS IN THE WIRELESS CITY http://www.radiator-festival.org 13 =96 24 January 2009 Launch event: 14 January 6-11pm Frank Abbott & Duncan Higgins UK // Annexinema UK // Annual General Meeting (AGM) IT/DK // Ryosuke Akiyoshi JP // Blu UK // Jim Brouwer & Chris Cousin UK // Andrew Browne & Katie Doubleday UK // Patrick Farmer UK // Sebastian Craig UK // Glenn Davidson (Artstation) UK // Si=E2n Robinson Davies UK // Dis-locate JP/UK // Niklas Goldbach DE // Hatch UK // Candice Jacobs UK // JODI NL/BE // Miska Knapek DK/SE // Dominic Lash UK // Folke K=F6bberling & Martin Kaltwasser DE // Son Woo Kyung JP // Matt Milton UK // Leona Misu JP // Yuko Mohri JP // Suzanne Moxhay UK // Ian Nesbitt UK // Christian Nold UK // N55 DK // Chris Oakley UK // Origami Biro & The Joy of Box UK // The Owl Project UK // Plankton AU // paiR UK // Paula Rousch PT/UK // Rustie (Warp) UK // Scott Jon Siegel USA // Spamchop UK // Stanza UK // Akihiko Taniguchi JP // John Timberlake UK // Trampoline: Platform for New Media Art DE/UK // Michiko Tsuda JP // Visual Correspondents NL // John Wall UK // Mizuki WatanabeJP // Shunsuke Watanabe JP // Wounded Knee UK // ZimmerFrei IT Background : The 4th Radiator festival & symposium, "Exploits in the Wireless City ", aims to instigate discussion and debate based on the understanding that the development of digital networks are transforming our notion of (public and private) space. In its critique, Radiator will question the opportunities, future strategies and implementations that artists, poets, and communities face when learning to act within these new hybrid city spaces. Through its artistic interventions, Radiator will put theory into practice with projects and events that both position and challenge the dominant forces at work in the urban environment and explore the new territories opened up by hybrid space. The Going Underground project, investigates this infrastructure by placing 5 artists or poets into the urban confines of British cities: Glenn Davidson (Artstation) (UK), Folke K=F6bberling & Martin Kaltwasser (DE), Ian Nesbitt (UK), Christian Nold (UK), N55 (DK). These poets and artists will act as sleeper agents, observing and gathering information from a range of different sources including; architects, planning departments, city council offices, surveillance, monitoring centre's and the Police to create new work in response to their research. The Radiator festival and symposium is curated by Anette Sch=E4fer & Miles Chalcraft from Trampoline. Trampoline has hosted and curated events in both Nottingham and Berlin since 1997. http://www.radiator-festival.org Symposium : Exploits in the Wireless City 15-16 January 2009 A two day event at Broadway Media Centre, Nottingham. Bringing together artists and poets with architects, urban theorists, computer scientists, sociologists and fellow citizens, the symposium will explore, question and play with a new urban landscape where the re-conceptualizing of the public sphere in the regeneration developments of the East Midlands mirror those around Europe. Participants in the Symposium : Presentations by: Saskia Sassen (keynote) // Richard Barbrook // Duncan Campbell // Rob Van Kranenburg // Charlie Gere // Saul Albert // Simon Sheikh // Peter Goodwin // Neil Cummings // Krzysztof Nawratek // Holger Schn=E4delbach // JODI // Usman Haque // Gordan Savicic // Folke K=F6bberling, Martin Kaltwasser // Glenn Davidson (Artstation) // Ion S=F8rvin, =D8ivind Alexander Slaatto (N55) // Ian Nesbitt // Stanza Chairs and Moderators : Kuba Szreder // Sean Dodson // Joost Van Loon // Susanne Jaschko // David Crouch // Andreas Wittel Observers and advisors : Sarah Cook // Regine Debatty // Laura Sillars // Alessandro Ludovico Radiator Festival & Satellite Events : 13-24 January 2009 JODI // Blu // Visual Foreign Correspondents - January 2009 // Digital Broadway // Broadway Media Centre // inc Artist's Talk from JODI & Screening of Spectre of the Spectres Nikolas Goldbach // Suzanne Moxhay // Visual Foreign Correspondents - 13 =96 24 Jan // Urban Screens // Nottingham // Leicester // Derby Dis-locate =96 13 =96 24 Jan // Dis-locate is a project based in Japan presenting an annual festival in Tokyo/Yokohama that investigates the relationship between new media and the environment // 13 January Preview 6-8pm // Hand and Heart Gallery // inc. Artist's Talk & Screening Hatch - 13 Jan 8pm // A performance platform curated by Michael Pinchbeck & Nathan Miller // Loggerheads Exploits in the Wireless City Exhibition 14 =96 24 Jan // Glenn Davidson (Artstation) // Sebastain Craig // Candice Jacobs // K=F6bberling & Kaltwasser // N55 // Ian Nesbitt // Stanza // Surface Gallery Dealmaker & Wigflex Presents 14 Jan 9pm =96 1am // Rustie (Warp) // Spamchop // Keaver & Brause // Electronica music // Brownes QUAD Jan 15 5=969.30pm // Annual General Meeting [AGM] // S=EEan Robinson Davies // Bill Drummond // Charlie Gere // Paula Roush // Akihko Taniguchi // Jane & Louise Wilson // As part of Symposium trip Origami Biro and The Joy of Box // Chris Cousin & Jim Brouwer =96 15 Jan 9pm // Live experimental electronic music/performance // The New Art Exchange Trampoline Platform Event =96 16 Jan // The Owl Project // Burd & Scarr // Wounded Knee // Patrick Farmer // Dominic Lash // Matt Milton // MIDSR // Lovebites Fusing Frames Workshop // The New Art Exchange // Andrew Brown & Kaite Doubleday // Open City Walk Annexinema =96 17 Jan 8pm // An evening of artist's short films curated by Emily Wilczek & Ian Nesbitt // The Art Organisation John Wall =96 24 Jan 8pm // Closing Event // Backlit http://www.radiator-festival.org Symposium Tickets Full Pass: =A3 60 (concs. =A3 45) Single Day: =A3 35 (concs. =A3 25) Prices include lunch, refreshments, trip to Derby QUAD & Radiator Festival events (on a first come first serve basis). Accommodation: special hotel deals with Radiator bookings. Email for details or check website nearer the time. For Bookings, ring (0)115 840 9272 Travel Train // London =96 Nottingham range from =A31 - =A311 each way on Megatrain.co.uk =96 Book Early! Car // From Lincoln 1hr // Sheffield 1hr // Birmingham 1.5hrs // Manchester 2hrs // Liverpool 2.5hrs // Bristol 2.5hrs Plane // Super cheap flights with Ryan Air to Nottingham East Midlands from 5=80 all incl.!!! Contact Details Radiator Festival // 14-18 Broad St // Nottingham // NG1 3AL // England // = UK Tel +44 (0)115 =96 840 92 72 info@radiator-festival.org www.radiator-festival.org If you would like to be kept updated, subscribe to the e-newsletter or TXT (R8R) to +44 (0) 7786200690 Partners : Broadway Media Centre // Nottingham Trent University // East Midlands New Technology Initiative // Surface Gallery // Ibis Hotel // Trampoline // The New Art Exchange // Neighbourhood Development Company // FACT // QUAD // Big Screen Derby // Japan Society // British Council // The Arts Organisation // Ibis // Phoenix // Nottingham Royal Centre // Hand & Heart Gallery // Lee Rosie's Tearoom // Backlit Best regards, S=E9amas Cain http://alazanto.org/seamascain http://seamascain.writernetwork.com http://www.mnartists.org/Seamas_Cain _______________ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 15:35:25 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Further on the feneon collective Comments: To: Poetryetc poetry and poetics Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Further comments directed to the feneon collective, posted today. By Ange Mlinko, Steve Evans, David Shapiro, Nada Gordon, Chris Daniels, and a Leading Flarf Poet. http://faitsdiversdelapoesie.blogspot.com/ thank you for reading, --the feneon collective ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 16:06:52 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Doug Holder Subject: The Fearful Symmetries of Lo Galluccio=?WINDOWS-1252?Q?=92s_?= Sarasota VII Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Boston Area Small Press and Poetry Scene=20 This blog consists of reviews, interviews, news, etc...from the world of = the=20 Boston area small press and poetry scene and beyond. Regular contributors= =20 are reviewers for the "Ibbetson Update," such as: Hugh Fox, Lo Galluccio,= =20 Irene Koronas, Michael Todd Steffen,, Richard Wilhelm, Steve Glines, Mign= on=20 Ariel King, Mike Amado, and Pam Rosenblatt. founder Doug Holder:=20 dougholder@post.harvard.edu. * B A S P P S is listed in the New Pages Ind= ex=20 of Alternative Literary Blogs. Thursday, January 08, 2009 The Fearful Symmetries of Lo Galluccio=92s Sarasota VII http://dougholder.blogspot.com=20 =20 The Fearful Symmetries of Lo Galluccio=92s Sarasota VII article by Michael T. Steffen =46rom the sepulchral artifacts of ancient Egypt to the horror films we w= atch in=20 our cinemas, civilizations have attested again and again to the powerful=20= creative articulation people find in the loss of loved ones. Far from any= form of=20 closure, grief resonates irresolutely within us, demanding response after= =20 response, a virtual wellspring of language, the poet=92s torment and trea= sure.=20 Formally approached, art provides a medium of exploration to channel and=20= cultivate the enormous curiosity that loss bequeaths to us. Yet drawing=20= expressions from these sources of our inspirations hardly depletes the we= ll. So=20 much happens simultaneously in our relationships: you as you are, you as = I=20 perceive or desire you, I as am and as am perceived/project myself. Facto= r in=20 time and the complexity deepens: you as you are, you as you were and woul= d=20 want me to be this new year=85 Many writers feel some accomplishment in=20= extracting an element or so from the complexity in a given piece of writi= ng.=20 More boldly, however, attempts now and then are made exposing the artist = in=20 a defiant embracing of as much elemental psychic transference as she or h= e=20 can, resulting in some of the works we read in classes at the highest lev= els,=20 The Odyssey, Hamlet, The Waste Land. I don=92t mean to mince values by=20= comparing Lo Galluccio=92s Sarasota VII with the great masterpieces of wo= rld=20 literature. (Irene Koronas in Sarasota VII sees traces of Robert Lowell, = John=20 Berryman, Sylvia Plath and Anne Sexton, to name a few.) Yet reading=20 Sarasota VII gave me the impression of a poet drawing into that kind of=20= perilous arena, a tamer in a cage surrounded by dangerous =93symmetries.=94= While=20 wary of falsely glorifying Sarasota VII, I think it important to acknowle= dge the=20 work=92s barest formal venture, the confrontational expectations proposed= and=20 that Galluccio was able to contain this material and shape it into one wo= rk. It=20 attests to a great character of faith and resilience in it author. The perceiving of multiple identities (I-thou, am, are, is, was=85to beco= me=85)=20 haunts Sarasota VII and also seeds the work with brilliant insights. =85those of us who lose a reflection of ourselves in childhood have two lives. We know ourselves against life and against death. As a tree knows itself against a space of sky and against a density of earth (I,3). We know hot from cold, both of shared elements, water or air. So life fro= m=20 death, yet again of shared elements, memory and language, which make us=20= human, the creature for whom so much of the present is composed of the=20= past, memory, language. And the life of the body is known from that of the mind. The smell of barbecue rising through the open window, caress of wind, a desire to lie on the floor and feed kisses with kisses on some mouth, even a woman=92s, even her own. The sensation makes her dizzy and enormous. Enormously earth- bound and stupid. Smarter than words. The body=20 defies all ideas and projections of ideas. The body wants only to move, to rest and to touch. It offers ecstasy and expression. The mind dangles spiders, spins cobwebs, and explanations that mummify the rest. Split? (I,8). This is wonderful poetry, naming=97this from that, Adam in the garden, Jo= yce in=20 The Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man. It is the beginning of a galax= y,=20 analysis, the splitting or separation of matter, this from that, the poet= ry of the=20 discovery (rediscovery) of each thing, consummately of the beloved, the s= o=20 significant other, at whose meeting we begin to synthesize, to know and=20= identify with and in part become one with. We kissed. Again and again. For nine months. I sent you home. I loved you. I loved the taste of you. Knew the danger of you and you walked home in my jacket. =93I already expect to die,=94 you said. Just like a survivor. I knew that better than almost anyone else, you knew the art of survival and how to feed yourself (I,15). Anxiously in section 12 of Part I Galluccio asks, =93Can one form a work = of art=20 without attention to form, without a basis in it?=94 In fact, Sarasota VI= I enacts=20 a universally recognizable formation in its taking apart and synthesizing= things,=20 people, psyches, worlds. The form of human life synthesizes the fetus out= of a=20 series of meiosis or splitting of cells. That is nature=92s task, initiat= ing a life out=20 of the initiation of two deaths, those of the lovers or sexual partners. = The=20 anxiety of that natural death ignites the intellect of the artist in defi= ance,=20 whose spidery mind at some point refuses and steps back away from the=20 completion of the natural sexual death. you=92d feed off me. Now you say, =93You were lonely.=94 Now you say, =93You shouldn=92t have let me steal your power.=94 I say: =93We were twins.=94 I say: =93You shouldn=92t have needed to steal the power you admired and hated=94 (I,15). So the lost lover, the subject of Part I, failed to become the provider.=20= Instead, =93You offered heat. You breathe lies and drama=85 You became my= =20 theatre=85 (ibid). Classically, in the Latin poet Horace=92s terms, dramatic form was linear= and=20 consisted of a beginning, a middle and an end. It established the charact= ers in=20 the setting of a significant moment, troubled those characters with that=20= moment, then (comedy) resolved that trouble or (tragedy) further unravele= d=20 the characters in the exaltation of their dilemmas. It=92s not the lack o= f=20 formative polarities that is missing in Sarasota VII. It is their linear = playing out,=20 a more obvious and logical sequence, which we are denied, perhaps which w= e=20 today expect to be denied. Galluccio owns this work, though, as a memoir, yet the notion of drama is= =20 frequently conjured so that a nifty sleight of the theatrical echoes over= into=20 the reader=92s perceptions. I particularly liked the section that identif= ied actors=20 and criminals: Both refuse a set place. A legitimate space. They ribbon graffiti on the walls of worlds solid hands and straight minds have constructed. They wear masks. What distinguishes the outlaw, the actor? His long-term cowardice or his continuously summoned, quickly spurted courage? (I, 10). Part II shifts its focus from lost lover to lost father, and also visits = Galluccio=92s=20 experience with drama. Rather than being disappointed sexually, the child= =20 orphaned by the parent=92s death deals with a larger, more cosmic sensati= on of=20 abandonment, and the poet sings the plangent refrain, =93Because I=92m=20= fatherless=85=94 Because I=92m fatherless the director wants me to come by his bungalow for a drink so he can confide in me all the frustrations of his theatrical kingdom. Like Viola in =93Twelfth Night=94 I=92m to become sympathetic and marooned by this Duke=92s forlorn appetite. I decline=85 (II. I.) Though it is refused the presentation of linear form, there is a story, a= drama=20 to Sarasota VII. Out of a similar refusal Vladimir Nabokov wrote his memo= ir- style novel The Real Life of Sebastian Knight. Formally the memoir is=20 appropriate to the spirit of post-modernism in that its narration is topi= cal=20 rather than temporal, its narration simultaneous rather than linear, all = things=20 happening at once in the out-of-time moment of remembering and writing. If Sarasota VII elicits comparison with great works, it is I think becaus= e=20 Galluccio has dared to flutter around some very long-burning flames, love= and=20 death, the rules of the mind vs. the joys and pains of the body, the comf= orts=20 of being accepted vs. the stings of rejection, deeply the daughter and th= e=20 father. It would be wrong simply to flatter and inflate the author unjustly. Sara= sota=20 VII is not a bad attempt at artistic surrender in amplitude. Whether it i= s=20 enough for a young literary talent to rest upon, that is the author=92s d= ecision.=20 It is a generous gift to us readers certainly. About The Book of Nightmares Galway Kinnell was told that it was a great=20= poem despite its many flaws. Impressive in scope, continuity and sustained melody, Sarasota VII bears=20= everything necessary, high and low, to be read with enthusiasm and=20 consideration. Sarasota VII is available for $12.00 from Cervana Barva Press/ P.O. Box=20= 440357/ W. Somerville, MA 02144-3222/ www.cervanabarvapress.com. See also, Bookstore: www.thelostbookshelf.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 18:37:09 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory Comments: To: poet_in_hell@yahoo.com In-Reply-To: <837878.91066.qm@web52409.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I'm not sure what you're objecting to, as you seem to be paraphrasing what I said. In the best of all possible worlds there would probably be some voluntary prostitution, but I'd still wonder at the psychological cost to those who chose to make their living that way. Choosing to playact at prostitution, like the women in the poetry brothel, is simply fantasy, and no more destructive, I'd think, than wearing a pirate costume. It's under the category of "whatever gets you off." Mark At 01:45 PM 1/8/2009, steve russell wrote: >interesting distinction: Genet did a number with the fantasy realm. >But what, exactly, do you mean, Mark, by the fantasy of >prostitution? Phone sex? I suppose that's somewhat harmless. But >that ain't the real thing. When it's real, as in the sex trade, >we're talking ugly/ugly/ugly. > >--- On Tue, 1/6/09, Mark Weiss wrote: >From: Mark Weiss >Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 11:41 PM > >I think we need to make a distinction between prostitution and the >fantasy of prostitution. Most prostitution is compelled or a response >to desperation. Most fantasy prostitution, playing dress-up and the >like, isn't. > >At 02:34 PM 1/6/2009, you wrote: > >I saw reference in there to men and gigolos. I have a problem with the old > >school "sex degrades women" feminist argument. Is a the location >of a > >brothel and the profession of prostitution *always* and inherently >degrading > >to women? I thought there were sex-positive feminists who were working > >against that idea. > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: steve russell [mailto:poet_in_hell@YAHOO.COM] > >Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 5:49 PM > >Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory > > > >this seems pretty light hearted. > >I'm sorry to hear about the wicked (objects, et cetera) capitalist. > >i suspect that the most die hard feminist could enjoy her/himself. > > > >--- On Fri, 12/19/08, mIEKAL aND wrote: > >From: mIEKAL aND > >Subject: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >Date: Friday, December 19, 2008, 4:15 PM > > > >New York poetry brothel tempts with verse > > > >Published: Friday December 19, 2008 > > > >http://rawstory.com/news/afp/New_York_poetry_brothel_tempts_with_12192008.ht > >ml > > > >The prostitute whispers, wets her lips and prepares to bare... her heart > >with a > >poem. > > > >Welcome to New York's Poetry Brothel, where punters delve between the > >lines, not the sheets. > > > >At a weekend session in a Manhattan night club called the Zipper Factory >the > >look was bona fide bordello. > > > >Literary ladies of the night flitted between intimate, candle-lit nooks, >red > >lights and paintings of nudes. > > > >Some of the poetesses for sale sported retro-style garter belts and frilly > >knickers. One swanned about in a top hat and feather boa. > > > >But transactions at the Poetry Brothel are of the mind, not the body, and a > >moment with the catalogue, replete with pictures and whimsical >descriptions, > >reveals what's on offer. > > > >Page four boasts The Professor, swearing to have heard "the wail of >your > >striving heart drifting over the spires of skyscrapers." > > > >Harriett Van Os on page 10 promises to "tell you secrets she >doesn't > >know she knows." Cecille Ballroom tempts punters on page 13 claiming >she > >can "coax your drum." > > > >Gigolo poets are available, not least Poetry Brothel co-founder Nicholas > >Adamski, who goes by the name Tennessee Pink and tops tempestuous, dark > >looks > >with an eye patch. > > > >"Poetry is what I love more than anything," cooed The Madame, the > >sultry spirit behind the whole idea. > > > >The Madame -- real name Stephanie Berger -- came dressed for the part in > >low-cut dress, elbow-length black gloves and a peacock headdress. > > > >"I'd rather be in the bedroom hearing poetry than listening to >some > >old man sitting on a chair on a stage," she explained by the light of >a > >guttering candle. > > > >One-on-one encounters, for which "clients" pay three to five >dollars > >in addition to a 15 dollar entry fee and one free reading, took place > >upstairs. > > > >The "whores" read from their own material, much of which is free > >verse, making for intense, sometimes baffling performances. > > > >But for those needing a break, the Poetry Brothel laid on flamenco > >guitarists, > >a fortune-teller, a blackjack table and a bar specializing in port and > >whisky > > > >The young hedonists, most of them students, appear to have struck a > >surprisingly successful formula. > > > >"There just aren't that many poetry readings where poets show a >lot of > >cleavage," said The Professor, otherwise known as Jennifer Michael >Hecht, > >aged 43 and a real life professor at Manhattan's New School. > > > >She teaches writing to many of the Brothel's regulars and is proud of >the > >result. > > > >"It's kind of like the Weimar Republic without the Nazis. At two >in > >the morning you have 20- or 30-year-olds lying all over the place reading > >poetry," she said. > > > >"The custom is to read poetry alone, but we know that from Homer >onward, > >people read it aloud and in groups." > > > >By midnight the Zipper Factory was packed and getting fuller -- and >rowdier. > > > >The fortune teller, bedecked in red scarf and blue plumes, mumbled to > >someone > >about "choppy waters." The flamenco duo strummed. The Madame, yet > >another glass of port in hand, introduced poet "whores" in a >voice > >suggesting she appreciated more than their literary charms. > > > >When Patricia Smith, a well-established poet, took the mike to declaim a > >long > >and rhythmical poem about love and making love, there were rock concert > >cheers > >from the crowd. > > > >"I always shudder when I pray," Smith intoned in a mesmerizing >voice, > >"so your name must be a prayer." > > > >Even for these bohemians there's no escaping the economic crisis >sweeping > >the country. > > > >One of the poets, 22-year-old Nina Cheng, was about to start a job at Bear > >Stearns this year when the bank collapsed. Now she is writing a play about > >the > >experience and applying for a playwright's course at Yale. > > > >"I'd thought I'd do banking and get into the arts when I >retired > >-- not this early," said Cheng, known at the Brothel as The Opium >Eater. > > > >Another poetry prostitute, 27-year-old Rachel Herman-Gross, aka Simone, > >worried > >that crashing stock markets will pull the rug from under the arts scene. > >"It's going to be a lot harder. A lot of artists are sustained by > >grants from people with money." > > > >But one enthusiastic "client" said the ingenuity of the Poetry > >Brothel proves there are ways to survive. > > > >"Money's always been scarce for artists and they're very > >resourceful people," said Edmund Voyer, 54, a hefty man described as >an > >"evangelist" on his business card and who came to the Zipper >Factory > >wearing a kilt. > > > >His drinking companion, Jennifer Hoa, 27, agreed money and art would always > >find ways to meet. > > > >"I've been a sell-out for years as a corporate lawyer, but I come > >here," she said. "I can't suppress my artistic side." > > > >The Madame promised that the Poetry Brothel welcomed all. > > > >"Many are young men with perhaps a secret interest in poems," she > >murmured. "Just look at the menu. Get a recommendation. Or say you > >don't care. Say: 'I need poetry. I'm hungry.'" > > > >================================== > >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >guidelines > >& sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > > > > > > >================================== > >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >guidelines > >& sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > > >================================== > >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > >guidelines & sub/unsub info: >http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > >================================== >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines >& sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > >================================== >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 18:45:53 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Poetry Project Subject: Events at The Poetry Project January Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable We have a great week of events planned here at The Poetry Project! Monday, January 12, 8 PM Cyrus Console & Jessica Dessner Cyrus Console is from Topeka, Kansas. His first book, Brief Under Water, is available from Burning Deck Press. He lives in Lawrence, Kansas. Jessica Dessner is slowly making the transition from dancer/choreographer to poet/visual artist. Her poems have appeared or are forthcoming in La Petite Zine, Sal Mimeo, The Invisible Stitch, and H_NGM_N, and her chapbook, Wit's End with Bric-a-Brac, was published by Green Zone in 2006. She holds a BA i= n Dance from Barnard College and recently completed the New School's Poetry MFA program. Her drawings will be featured in the artwork for two upcoming record releases, the Welcome Wagon's Welcome to the Welcome Wagon, and Osso's Run Rabbit, Run, a string arrangement of Sufjan Stevens' Enjoy Your Rabbit. Wednesday, January 14, 8 PM Samuel R. Delany & Renee Gladman Critic and novelist Samuel R. Delany published his first novel, The Jewels of Aptor, in 1962 at the age of 20. Since then he has gone on to become one of the most widely influential science fiction writers in America. He is a winner of four Nebula Awards, two Hugo Awards, and the William Whitehead Memorial Award for a Lifetime=B9s Contribution to Lesbian and Gay writing. Hi= s latest novel is Dark Reflections, and Through the Valley of the Nest of Spiders is forthcoming. He is a professor of English and creative writing a= t Temple University. Renee Gladman is the author of four books, most recently Newcomer Can't Swim, prose installations published by Kelsey St. Press in 2007. A new work, Toaf, is forthcoming from Atelos this fall. Gladman is editor and publisher of Leon Works, an independent press for experimental prose and other thought projects based in the sentence, and teaches fiction in the Program in Literary Arts at Brown University. She lives in Jamaica Plain. Friday, January 16, 10 PM Michael Basinski & Justin Katko Michael Basinski is the curator of The Poetry Collection at the State University of New York at Buffalo. He performs his work as a solo poet and in ensemble with BuffFluxus. Among his many books of poetry are Of Venus 93 (Little Scratch Pad); All My Eggs Are Broken (BlazeVox); Heka (Factory School); Strange Things Begin to Happen When a Meteor Crashes in the Arizon= a Desert (Burning Press); and AuXin (an Amphibole book, Amphibole is a vehicl= e of They Are Flying Planes). His poems have appeared in Dandelion, BoxKite, Antennae, Unbearables Magazine, Open Letter, Torgue, Leopold Bloom, Wooden Head Review, Basta, Kiosk, Explosive Magazine, Deluxe Rubber Chicken, First Offense, Terrible Work, Juxta, Kenning, Witz, Lungfull, Lvng, Generator, Tinfish, Curicule Patterns, Score, Unarmed, Rampike, First Intensity, House Organ, Ferrum Wheel, End Note, Ur Vox, Damn the Caesars, Pilot, 1913, Filling Station, Public Illumination, Words, They Are Flying Planes and in others. Justin Katko is a poet and publisher. He edits the small press Critical Documents, which specializes in contemporary poetry from the UK an= d the US. He is completing an MFA in Electronic Writing at Brown University. Become a Poetry Project Member! http://poetryproject.com/membership.php Calendar: http://www.poetryproject.com/calendar.php The Poetry Project is located at St. Mark's Church-in-the-Bowery 131 East 10th Street at Second Avenue New York City 10003 Trains: 6, F, N, R, and L. info@poetryproject.com www.poetryproject.com Admission is $8, $7 for students/seniors and $5 for members (though now those who take out a membership at $95 or higher will get in FREE to all regular readings). We are wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. For more info call 212-674-0910. If you=B9d like to be unsubscribed from this mailing list, please drop a line at info@poetryproject.com. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 20:22:46 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Adam Tobin Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I did overstate the case a bit -- only because i thought your reaction against The Poetry Brothel was itself overstated. Of course sex is different from sewing. And sewing is different from mining, and mining is different from picking cotton, etc. -- all of these industries have had -- and do have -- their own slavery problems. And all of them have different occupational hazards and terrible working conditions that need to be addressed, and will only be addressed if the workers can bargain collectively because the bosses are interested only in profits etc. etc. etc. I propose that a major reason that slavery persists in the sex industry is that the labor movement has utterly ignored those workers, largely because of the knee-jerk moralizing that is our culture's rote response to any mention of sex-work. (and because it apparently takes an involved argument to convince even well-meaning people that sex can be considered work at all.) (I may be the old-fashioned one here, calling for solidarity across different types of work. But that old labor-movement ethic seems still useful to me -- whereas the old "shame-on-the-women-who-dress-like-whores" ethic seems singularly counterproductive.) -----Original Message----- From: Poetics List (UPenn, UB) [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Ruth Lepson Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 11:04 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory I guess I must be 200 years old--does nobody else agree that it's common sense that prostitution is essentially different from other kinds of 'work'? On 12/23/08 10:00 PM, "Adam Tobin" wrote: > Why is the capitalist exploitation of women at a brothel worse than, > say, the capitalist exploitation of women at a Zipper Factory? It's > just a different kind of labor, no? Given that some artists are > seemingly comfortable with capitalism, why should they not acknowledge > it in the name of their ventures? > > I understand, of course, that brothels have a particular history with > a particular kind of violence attached to it, but so do factories. Do > you direct the same righteous anger at Andy Warhol? > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Poetics List (UPenn, UB) [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] > On Behalf Of Ruth Lepson > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 5:01 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory > > brothels about as funny as slavery. > which British feminist? > > > On 12/21/08 1:44 PM, "steve russell" wrote: > >> somewhat related: William Styron, the way he waxes his libido in >> "Sophie's Choice." >> i'm still looking for the book of essays by the British Feminist who >> enlightened me. >> >> --- On Sat, 12/20/08, Ruth Lepson wrote: >> From: Ruth Lepson >> Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Date: Saturday, December 20, 2008, 6:51 PM >> >> cooptation of poetry by capitalist objectification of women. not >> funny. to use a brothel as a metaphor is disgusting. I remember when >> Denise Levertov criticized a poet for using napalm as a metaphor for >> personal pain, saying you don't know what it feels like & it's much >> worse than the way you are characterizing it. >> >> >> On 12/19/08 4:15 PM, "mIEKAL aND" >> wrote: >> >>> New York poetry brothel tempts with verse >>> >>> Published: Friday December 19, 2008 >>> >>> >> http://rawstory.com/news/afp/New_York_poetry_brothel_tempts_with_1219 >> 2 >> 008.html >>> >>> The prostitute whispers, wets her lips and prepares to bare... her >>> heart with a poem. >>> >>> Welcome to New York's Poetry Brothel, where punters delve between >>> the lines, not the sheets. >>> >>> At a weekend session in a Manhattan night club called the Zipper >>> Factory the look was bona fide bordello. >>> >>> Literary ladies of the night flitted between intimate, candle-lit >>> nooks, red lights and paintings of nudes. >>> >>> Some of the poetesses for sale sported retro-style garter belts and >>> frilly knickers. One swanned about in a top hat and feather boa. >>> >>> But transactions at the Poetry Brothel are of the mind, not the >>> body, and a moment with the catalogue, replete with pictures and >>> whimsical descriptions, reveals what's on offer. >>> >>> Page four boasts The Professor, swearing to have heard "the wail of >>> your striving heart drifting over the spires of skyscrapers." >>> >>> Harriett Van Os on page 10 promises to "tell you secrets she >> doesn't >>> know she knows." Cecille Ballroom tempts punters on page 13 claiming >>> she can "coax your drum." >>> >>> Gigolo poets are available, not least Poetry Brothel co-founder >>> Nicholas Adamski, who goes by the name Tennessee Pink and tops >>> tempestuous, dark looks with an eye patch. >>> >>> "Poetry is what I love more than anything," cooed The Madame, >> the >>> sultry spirit behind the whole idea. >>> >>> The Madame -- real name Stephanie Berger -- came dressed for the >>> part in low-cut dress, elbow-length black gloves and a peacock headdress. >>> >>> "I'd rather be in the bedroom hearing poetry than listening to >> some >>> old man sitting on a chair on a stage," she explained by the light >>> of a guttering candle. >>> >>> One-on-one encounters, for which "clients" pay three to five >> dollars >>> in addition to a 15 dollar entry fee and one free reading, took >>> place upstairs. >>> >>> The "whores" read from their own material, much of which is free >>> verse, making for intense, sometimes baffling performances. >>> >>> But for those needing a break, the Poetry Brothel laid on flamenco >>> guitarists, a fortune-teller, a blackjack table and a bar >>> specializing in port and whisky >>> >>> The young hedonists, most of them students, appear to have struck a >>> surprisingly successful formula. >>> >>> "There just aren't that many poetry readings where poets show a >> lot of >>> cleavage," said The Professor, otherwise known as Jennifer Michael >>> Hecht, aged 43 and a real life professor at Manhattan's New School. >>> >>> She teaches writing to many of the Brothel's regulars and is proud >>> of the result. >>> >>> "It's kind of like the Weimar Republic without the Nazis. At two >> in >>> the morning you have 20- or 30-year-olds lying all over the place >>> reading poetry," she said. >>> >>> "The custom is to read poetry alone, but we know that from Homer >>> onward, people read it aloud and in groups." >>> >>> By midnight the Zipper Factory was packed and getting fuller -- and >>> rowdier. >>> >>> The fortune teller, bedecked in red scarf and blue plumes, mumbled >>> to someone about "choppy waters." The flamenco duo strummed. The >> Madame, >>> yet another glass of port in hand, introduced poet "whores" in a >> voice >>> suggesting she appreciated more than their literary charms. >>> >>> When Patricia Smith, a well-established poet, took the mike to >>> declaim a long and rhythmical poem about love and making love, there >>> were rock concert cheers from the crowd. >>> >>> "I always shudder when I pray," Smith intoned in a mesmerizing >> voice, >>> "so your name must be a prayer." >>> >>> Even for these bohemians there's no escaping the economic crisis >>> sweeping the country. >>> >>> One of the poets, 22-year-old Nina Cheng, was about to start a job >>> at Bear Stearns this year when the bank collapsed. Now she is >>> writing a play about the experience and applying for a playwright's >>> course at Yale. >>> >>> "I'd thought I'd do banking and get into the arts when I >> retired -- >>> not this early," said Cheng, known at the Brothel as The Opium Eater. >>> >>> Another poetry prostitute, 27-year-old Rachel Herman-Gross, aka >>> Simone, worried that crashing stock markets will pull the rug from >>> under the arts scene. "It's going to be a lot harder. A lot of >> artists >>> are sustained by grants from people with money." >>> >>> But one enthusiastic "client" said the ingenuity of the Poetry >> Brothel >>> proves there are ways to survive. >>> >>> "Money's always been scarce for artists and they're very >> resourceful >>> people," said Edmund Voyer, 54, a hefty man described as an >>> "evangelist" on his business card and who came to the Zipper >> Factory >>> wearing a kilt. >>> >>> His drinking companion, Jennifer Hoa, 27, agreed money and art would >>> always find ways to meet. >>> >>> "I've been a sell-out for years as a corporate lawyer, but I come >>> here," she said. "I can't suppress my artistic side." >>> >>> The Madame promised that the Poetry Brothel welcomed all. >>> >>> "Many are young men with perhaps a secret interest in poems," >> she >>> murmured. "Just look at the menu. Get a recommendation. Or say you >>> don't care. Say: 'I need poetry. I'm hungry.'" >>> >>> ================================== >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & >>> sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: >> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> >> >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: >> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 17:44:26 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Troy Camplin Subject: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Let them. Ever heard of male prostitutes? Giggalos? I don't know what this had to do with reductivism. I would argue that the world is far more complex than the simple black and white approach you are taking to prostitution. It is the institution it is because it is illegal and stigmatized. You it is in fact your attitude toward it that makes it the degrading job it is. You are the one rejecting this or that sexual expression as wrong or degrading or something that should be made illegal. It your puritanism that's wrong-headed in my opinion, and the inability to think outside of that puritanistic ethic. Troy Camplin ________________________________ From: amy king To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Thursday, January 8, 2009 5:03:29 PM Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory This is so wrong-headed, Troy, that I don't even know where to begin. I'm not talking about the debate over legalizing prostitution; I'm referring to your reductive, ridiculously simplistic rationale: Prostitution is just anatomy, Troy? That's right in line with your reasoning that you can't possibly be racist because you're married to a minority. Some news, Troy: you can be racist even if you are a minority! Ever heard of a self-loathing [insert your label here]? I can even be homophobic while being a lesbian! Such a reductionist claim is the primary pillar used to defend prostitution by the men who use and abuse the women stuck in that system, happily ignoring the psychological damage they pay to "work" these women -- "it's just anatomy" allows these guys to revel in the role they play in maintaining and enjoying such a crappy system that preys upon the systematic abuse of girls and women as well as economically-deprived women, who end up stuck using "a different set of muscles" to sustain themselves and likely their children whose father is nowhere to be seen, except possibly in one of those lines now asking the government to bail himself and his favorite industry out (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/07/porn-bailout-larry-flynt_n_155878.html ). Let those fathers and men turn to prostitution, then! It's just anatomy, after all. Amy _______ Recent work http://www.writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/King.html Amy's Alias http://amyking.org/ --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Troy Camplin wrote: From: Troy Camplin Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 12:26 AM I think prostitution should be legalized precisely because of all the problems that come about precisely because it's not legal and because in a free market, two free adults should be able to enter into any sort of relationship they desire, whether that be employee-employer, prostitute-client, artist-patron, or any other sort of relationship. Prostitution is no different than a woman who has sex with a guy she has no intention of seeing again after accepting an expensive dinner and some drinks from him -- only she gets the money directly, and can use the money (hopefully) more wisely. So you think that it's a different kind of work only because genitalia are involved? It's labor using a different set of muscles is all. Troy Camplin ________________________________ From: Ruth Lepson To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2009 10:04:06 PM Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory I guess I must be 200 years old--does nobody else agree that it's common sense that prostitution is essentially different from other kinds of 'work'? On 12/23/08 10:00 PM, "Adam Tobin" wrote: > Why is the capitalist exploitation of women at a brothel worse than, say, > the capitalist exploitation of women at a Zipper Factory? It's just a > different kind of labor, no? Given that some artists are seemingly > comfortable with capitalism, why should they not acknowledge it in the name > of their ventures? > > I understand, of course, that brothels have a particular history with a > particular kind of violence attached to it, but so do factories. Do you > direct the same righteous anger at Andy Warhol? > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Poetics List (UPenn, UB) [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > Behalf Of Ruth Lepson > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 5:01 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory > > brothels about as funny as slavery. > which British feminist? > > > On 12/21/08 1:44 PM, "steve russell" wrote: > >> somewhat related: William Styron, the way he waxes his libido in >> "Sophie's Choice." >> i'm still looking for the book of essays by the British Feminist who >> enlightened me. >> >> --- On Sat, 12/20/08, Ruth Lepson wrote: >> From: Ruth Lepson >> Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Date: Saturday, December 20, 2008, 6:51 PM >> >> cooptation of poetry by capitalist objectification of women. not >> funny. to use a brothel as a metaphor is disgusting. I remember when >> Denise Levertov criticized a poet for using napalm as a metaphor for >> personal pain, saying you don't know what it feels like & it's much >> worse than the way you are characterizing it. >> >> >> On 12/19/08 4:15 PM, "mIEKAL aND" >> wrote: >> >>> New York poetry brothel tempts with verse >>> >>> Published: Friday December 19, 2008 >>> >>> >> http://rawstory.com/news/afp/New_York_poetry_brothel_tempts_with_12192 >> 008.html >>> >>> The prostitute whispers, wets her lips and prepares to bare... her >>> heart with a poem. >>> >>> Welcome to New York's Poetry Brothel, where punters delve between the >>> lines, not the sheets. >>> >>> At a weekend session in a Manhattan night club called the Zipper >>> Factory the look was bona fide bordello. >>> >>> Literary ladies of the night flitted between intimate, candle-lit >>> nooks, red lights and paintings of nudes. >>> >>> Some of the poetesses for sale sported retro-style garter belts and >>> frilly knickers. One swanned about in a top hat and feather boa. >>> >>> But transactions at the Poetry Brothel are of the mind, not the body, >>> and a moment with the catalogue, replete with pictures and whimsical >>> descriptions, reveals what's on offer. >>> >>> Page four boasts The Professor, swearing to have heard "the wail of >>> your striving heart drifting over the spires of skyscrapers." >>> >>> Harriett Van Os on page 10 promises to "tell you secrets she >> doesn't >>> know she knows." Cecille Ballroom tempts punters on page 13 claiming >>> she can "coax your drum." >>> >>> Gigolo poets are available, not least Poetry Brothel co-founder >>> Nicholas Adamski, who goes by the name Tennessee Pink and tops >>> tempestuous, dark looks with an eye patch. >>> >>> "Poetry is what I love more than anything," cooed The Madame, >> the >>> sultry spirit behind the whole idea. >>> >>> The Madame -- real name Stephanie Berger -- came dressed for the part >>> in low-cut dress, elbow-length black gloves and a peacock headdress. >>> >>> "I'd rather be in the bedroom hearing poetry than listening to >> some >>> old man sitting on a chair on a stage," she explained by the light of >>> a guttering candle. >>> >>> One-on-one encounters, for which "clients" pay three to five >> dollars >>> in addition to a 15 dollar entry fee and one free reading, took place >>> upstairs. >>> >>> The "whores" read from their own material, much of which is free >>> verse, making for intense, sometimes baffling performances. >>> >>> But for those needing a break, the Poetry Brothel laid on flamenco >>> guitarists, a fortune-teller, a blackjack table and a bar >>> specializing in port and whisky >>> >>> The young hedonists, most of them students, appear to have struck a >>> surprisingly successful formula. >>> >>> "There just aren't that many poetry readings where poets show a >> lot of >>> cleavage," said The Professor, otherwise known as Jennifer Michael >>> Hecht, aged 43 and a real life professor at Manhattan's New School. >>> >>> She teaches writing to many of the Brothel's regulars and is proud of >>> the result. >>> >>> "It's kind of like the Weimar Republic without the Nazis. At two >> in >>> the morning you have 20- or 30-year-olds lying all over the place >>> reading poetry," she said. >>> >>> "The custom is to read poetry alone, but we know that from Homer >>> onward, people read it aloud and in groups." >>> >>> By midnight the Zipper Factory was packed and getting fuller -- and >>> rowdier. >>> >>> The fortune teller, bedecked in red scarf and blue plumes, mumbled to >>> someone about "choppy waters." The flamenco duo strummed. The >> Madame, >>> yet another glass of port in hand, introduced poet "whores" in a >> voice >>> suggesting she appreciated more than their literary charms. >>> >>> When Patricia Smith, a well-established poet, took the mike to >>> declaim a long and rhythmical poem about love and making love, there >>> were rock concert cheers from the crowd. >>> >>> "I always shudder when I pray," Smith intoned in a mesmerizing >> voice, >>> "so your name must be a prayer." >>> >>> Even for these bohemians there's no escaping the economic crisis >>> sweeping the country. >>> >>> One of the poets, 22-year-old Nina Cheng, was about to start a job at >>> Bear Stearns this year when the bank collapsed. Now she is writing a >>> play about the experience and applying for a playwright's course at >>> Yale. >>> >>> "I'd thought I'd do banking and get into the arts when I >> retired -- >>> not this early," said Cheng, known at the Brothel as The Opium Eater. >>> >>> Another poetry prostitute, 27-year-old Rachel Herman-Gross, aka >>> Simone, worried that crashing stock markets will pull the rug from >>> under the arts scene. "It's going to be a lot harder. A lot of >> artists >>> are sustained by grants from people with money." >>> >>> But one enthusiastic "client" said the ingenuity of the Poetry >> Brothel >>> proves there are ways to survive. >>> >>> "Money's always been scarce for artists and they're very >> resourceful >>> people," said Edmund Voyer, 54, a hefty man described as an >>> "evangelist" on his business card and who came to the Zipper >> Factory >>> wearing a kilt. >>> >>> His drinking companion, Jennifer Hoa, 27, agreed money and art would >>> always find ways to meet. >>> >>> "I've been a sell-out for years as a corporate lawyer, but I come >>> here," she said. "I can't suppress my artistic side." >>> >>> The Madame promised that the Poetry Brothel welcomed all. >>> >>> "Many are young men with perhaps a secret interest in poems," >> she >>> murmured. "Just look at the menu. Get a recommendation. Or say you >>> don't care. Say: 'I need poetry. I'm hungry.'" >>> >>> ================================== >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & >>> sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: >> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> >> >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: >> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 21:30:53 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: EZRA POUND FLASHPOINT EXTRA! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit happy new year to you and yers jack On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 13:13:02 -0500 John Foley writes: > (Due to the technical difficulty that I forgot to put a subject in > the subject > line of the email, this announcement, which originally appeared > January 1, > might have missed many who were not intrigued by a subject listed as > "no > subject given." My apologies to those at FlashPoint, including me, > and to all > who would have liked to know about this new EXTRA! -- jrf) > > ANNOUNCING ....... > > FLASHPOINT EXTRA! > Winter 2009 > http://www.flashpointmag.com > > EZRA POUND & WALL STREET > > featuring > > CANTO XLV > "With Usura" > > GIANO ACCAME > (translated by WAYNE POUNDS) > > ELLEN CARDONA > > DAVID HICKMAN > > MAC OLIVER > > BRENDON KERESEY > > TONY EVANS > > ROSALIE GANCIE > > CARLO PARCELLI > > "Along the frontier > where the arts & politics clash ..." > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 19:42:59 -0800 Reply-To: amyhappens@yahoo.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: amy king Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory In-Reply-To: <464130.32199.qm@web46203.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Way to try to flip the script, Troy.=A0 If you call me a Puritan (your usua= l name-calling and labeling tactic), maybe no one will notice that you are = the one with the "black and white approach." The "Puritan" accusation remai= ns the old stand-by, an all too common justification against anyone critica= l of a system that certainly capitalizes on the disenfranchisement (and abu= se) of women, no matter how many ways you try to spin what happens in a sex= -(and-often-worse)-for-cash exchange.=A0 Prostitution is just "a different = set of muscles" is as reductive a defense as you can get.=A0=20 And trying to make "prostitution" synonymous with "sexual expression" is ye= t another way to render invisible the harshness that real prostitutes --not= romanticized made-for-TV dominatrices-- contend with daily to survive.=A0 = It would be very convenient for your fantastical rationale if it were only = my "attitude toward it that makes it the degrading job it is."=A0 Sometimes= women, and some men, risk speaking out against the atrocities that prostit= utes have to face and are often accused of such nonsense as "degrading the = job" in an effort to shut us up.=A0 The risk for those of us who are critic= al of such an "industry" is that each time we speak, several people, often = men, will then accuse of us of all sorts of "Puritanical" reactions, and th= en we get to hear the justifications of why prostitution is really great an= d just "sexual expression." The majority of prostitutes in the world are women, and the majority of the= m enter the "trade" because of acute poverty, prior emotional/sexual abuse,= or have been kidnapped.=A0=A0 In the latter case, the girls and women have= been trafficked and are slaves, not workers even in the remotest sense.=A0= Only a very small percentage of prostitutes will say they do what they do = for "sexual expression", and often prostitutes turn to drug use just to get= through the "work".=A0 So much for "expression."=A0 Rare is the glamorous = house run and protected by a madame who pays her luxuriating prostitutes we= ll.=A0 Much, much more common is the work demanded by a pimp who puts his "= workers" at risk by making johns pay more so that the "workers" will be for= ced to go bareback or worse.=A0 Even legalized, I doubt the hierarchy of di= sbursement in such an industry would change; the "business", run by men, wo= uld get the most money, starting with whomever owned the "business" and on down to the bouncers, while the prostitutes would continue to receive a ve= ry small percentage, despite the fact that it is their bodies that are put = at risk, that perform, and receive, all of the "work," and the ensuing psyc= hological and physical harm that we would like to tiptoe around and pretend= doesn't happen since one "chooses" to enter such an exchange.=A0=20 The actual work of handing your body over to a stranger for some cash, para= doxically so that your body can continue to survive, is what makes the "job= " degrading, Troy.=A0=A0 Call me a Puritan and any other names you like, ca= ll it "sexual expression" when the livery drivers in my neighborhood pay po= or women twenty bucks for a blow job between cars or in the front seat, but= please try to imagine the details of the work you are trying to romanticiz= e before you reduce what these women do to "sexual expression" and "workers= " just using a "different set of muscles".=A0=20 Amy _______ Recent work http://www.writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/King.html Amy's Alias http://amyking.org/ --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Troy Camplin wrote: From: Troy Camplin Subject: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 8:44 PM Let them. Ever heard of male prostitutes? Giggalos? I don't know what this had to do with reductivism. I would argue that the world is far more comple= x than the simple black and white approach you are taking to prostitution. It= is the institution it is because it is illegal and stigmatized. You it is in f= act your attitude toward it that makes it the degrading job it is. You are the = one rejecting this or that sexual expression as wrong or degrading or something= that should be made illegal. It your puritanism that's wrong-headed in my opinion, and the inability to think outside of that puritanistic ethic. Troy Camplin ________________________________ From: amy king To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Thursday, January 8, 2009 5:03:29 PM Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory This is so wrong-headed, Troy, that I don't even know where to begin.=20 I'm not talking about the debate over legalizing prostitution; I'm referring to your reductive, ridiculously simplistic rationale: Prostitut= ion is just anatomy, Troy? That's right in line with your reasoning that you can't possibly be racist because you're married to a minority. Some news, Troy: you can be racist even if you are a minority! Ever heard of a self-loathing [insert your label here]? I can even be homophobic while bei= ng a lesbian! Such a reductionist claim is the primary pillar used to defend prostitution by the men who use and abuse the women stuck in that system, happily ignoring the psychological damage they pay to "work" these women -- "it's just anatomy" allows these guys to revel in the role they play in maintaining and enjoying such a crappy system that preys = upon the systematic abuse of girls and women as well as economically-deprived wo= men, who end up stuck using "a different set of muscles" to sustain themselves and likely their children whose father is nowhere to be seen, except possib= ly in one of those lines now asking the government to bail himself and his favori= te industry out (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/07/porn-bailout-larry-flynt_n_155878= .html ). Let those fathers and men turn to prostitution, then! It's just anatomy, after all. =20 Amy _______ Recent work http://www.writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/King.html Amy's Alias http://amyking.org/ --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Troy Camplin wrote: From: Troy Camplin Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 12:26 AM I think prostitution should be legalized precisely because of all the probl= ems that come about precisely because it's not legal and because in a free market, two free adults should be able to enter into any sort of relationsh= ip they desire, whether that be employee-employer, prostitute-client, artist-patron, or any other sort of relationship. Prostitution is no differ= ent than a woman who has sex with a guy she has no intention of seeing again af= ter accepting an expensive dinner and some drinks from him -- only she gets the money directly, and can use the money (hopefully) more wisely. So you think that it's a different kind of work only because genitalia are involved? It's labor using a different set of muscles is all. Troy Camplin ________________________________ From: Ruth Lepson To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2009 10:04:06 PM Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory I guess I must be 200 years old--does nobody else agree that it's common sense that prostitution is essentially different from other kinds of 'work'? On 12/23/08 10:00 PM, "Adam Tobin" wrote: > Why is the capitalist exploitation of women at a brothel worse than, say, > the capitalist exploitation of women at a Zipper Factory? It's just a > different kind of labor, no? Given that some artists are seemingly > comfortable with capitalism, why should they not acknowledge it in the name > of their ventures? >=20 > I understand, of course, that brothels have a particular history with a > particular kind of violence attached to it, but so do factories. Do you > direct the same righteous anger at Andy Warhol? >=20 >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Poetics List (UPenn, UB) [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > Behalf Of Ruth Lepson > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 5:01 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory >=20 > brothels about as funny as slavery. > which British feminist? >=20 >=20 > On 12/21/08 1:44 PM, "steve russell" wrote: >=20 >> somewhat related: William Styron, the way he waxes his libido in >> "Sophie's Choice." >> i'm still looking for the book of essays by the British Feminist who >> enlightened me. >>=20 >> --- On Sat, 12/20/08, Ruth Lepson wrote: >> From: Ruth Lepson >> Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Date: Saturday, December 20, 2008, 6:51 PM >>=20 >> cooptation of poetry by capitalist objectification of women. not >> funny. to use a brothel as a metaphor is disgusting. I remember when >> Denise Levertov criticized a poet for using napalm as a metaphor for >> personal pain, saying you don't know what it feels like & it's much >> worse than the way you are characterizing it. >>=20 >>=20 >> On 12/19/08 4:15 PM, "mIEKAL aND" >> wrote: >>=20 >>> New York poetry brothel tempts with verse >>>=20 >>> Published: Friday December 19, 2008 >>>=20 >>>=20 >> http://rawstory.com/news/afp/New_York_poetry_brothel_tempts_with_12192 >> 008.html >>>=20 >>> The prostitute whispers, wets her lips and prepares to bare... her >>> heart with a poem. >>>=20 >>> Welcome to New York's Poetry Brothel, where punters delve between the >>> lines, not the sheets. >>>=20 >>> At a weekend session in a Manhattan night club called the Zipper >>> Factory the look was bona fide bordello. >>>=20 >>> Literary ladies of the night flitted between intimate, candle-lit >>> nooks, red lights and paintings of nudes. >>>=20 >>> Some of the poetesses for sale sported retro-style garter belts and >>> frilly knickers. One swanned about in a top hat and feather boa. >>>=20 >>> But transactions at the Poetry Brothel are of the mind, not the body, >>> and a moment with the catalogue, replete with pictures and whimsical >>> descriptions, reveals what's on offer. >>>=20 >>> Page four boasts The Professor, swearing to have heard "the wail of >>> your striving heart drifting over the spires of skyscrapers." >>>=20 >>> Harriett Van Os on page 10 promises to "tell you secrets she >> doesn't >>> know she knows." Cecille Ballroom tempts punters on page 13 claiming >>> she can "coax your drum." >>>=20 >>> Gigolo poets are available, not least Poetry Brothel co-founder >>> Nicholas Adamski, who goes by the name Tennessee Pink and tops >>> tempestuous, dark looks with an eye patch. >>>=20 >>> "Poetry is what I love more than anything," cooed The Madame, >> the >>> sultry spirit behind the whole idea. >>>=20 >>> The Madame -- real name Stephanie Berger -- came dressed for the part >>> in low-cut dress, elbow-length black gloves and a peacock headdress. >>>=20 >>> "I'd rather be in the bedroom hearing poetry than listening to >> some >>> old man sitting on a chair on a stage," she explained by the light of >>> a guttering candle. >>>=20 >>> One-on-one encounters, for which "clients" pay three to five >> dollars >>> in addition to a 15 dollar entry fee and one free reading, took place >>> upstairs. >>>=20 >>> The "whores" read from their own material, much of which is free >>> verse, making for intense, sometimes baffling performances. >>>=20 >>> But for those needing a break, the Poetry Brothel laid on flamenco >>> guitarists, a fortune-teller, a blackjack table and a bar >>> specializing in port and whisky >>>=20 >>> The young hedonists, most of them students, appear to have struck a >>> surprisingly successful formula. >>>=20 >>> "There just aren't that many poetry readings where poets show a >> lot of >>> cleavage," said The Professor, otherwise known as Jennifer Michael >>> Hecht, aged 43 and a real life professor at Manhattan's New School. >>>=20 >>> She teaches writing to many of the Brothel's regulars and is proud of >>> the result. >>>=20 >>> "It's kind of like the Weimar Republic without the Nazis. At two >> in >>> the morning you have 20- or 30-year-olds lying all over the place >>> reading poetry," she said. >>>=20 >>> "The custom is to read poetry alone, but we know that from Homer >>> onward, people read it aloud and in groups." >>>=20 >>> By midnight the Zipper Factory was packed and getting fuller -- and >>> rowdier. >>>=20 >>> The fortune teller, bedecked in red scarf and blue plumes, mumbled to >>> someone about "choppy waters." The flamenco duo strummed. The >> Madame, >>> yet another glass of port in hand, introduced poet "whores" in a >> voice >>> suggesting she appreciated more than their literary charms. >>>=20 >>> When Patricia Smith, a well-established poet, took the mike to >>> declaim a long and rhythmical poem about love and making love, there >>> were rock concert cheers from the crowd. >>>=20 >>> "I always shudder when I pray," Smith intoned in a mesmerizing >> voice, >>> "so your name must be a prayer." >>>=20 >>> Even for these bohemians there's no escaping the economic crisis >>> sweeping the country. >>>=20 >>> One of the poets, 22-year-old Nina Cheng, was about to start a job at >>> Bear Stearns this year when the bank collapsed. Now she is writing a >>> play about the experience and applying for a playwright's course at >>> Yale. >>>=20 >>> "I'd thought I'd do banking and get into the arts when I >> retired -- >>> not this early," said Cheng, known at the Brothel as The Opium Eater. >>>=20 >>> Another poetry prostitute, 27-year-old Rachel Herman-Gross, aka >>> Simone, worried that crashing stock markets will pull the rug from >>> under the arts scene. "It's going to be a lot harder. A lot of >> artists >>> are sustained by grants from people with money." >>>=20 >>> But one enthusiastic "client" said the ingenuity of the Poetry >> Brothel >>> proves there are ways to survive. >>>=20 >>> "Money's always been scarce for artists and they're very >> resourceful >>> people," said Edmund Voyer, 54, a hefty man described as an >>> "evangelist" on his business card and who came to the Zipper >> Factory >>> wearing a kilt. >>>=20 >>> His drinking companion, Jennifer Hoa, 27, agreed money and art would >>> always find ways to meet. >>>=20 >>> "I've been a sell-out for years as a corporate lawyer, but I come >>> here," she said. "I can't suppress my artistic side." >>>=20 >>> The Madame promised that the Poetry Brothel welcomed all. >>>=20 >>> "Many are young men with perhaps a secret interest in poems," >> she >>> murmured. "Just look at the menu. Get a recommendation. Or say you >>> don't care. Say: 'I need poetry. I'm hungry.'" >>>=20 >>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & >>> sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>=20 >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: >> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: >> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> =20 >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 22:08:39 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20090108183513.06c3aea8@earthlink.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit but WHY something gets you off is the question. On 1/8/09 6:37 PM, "Mark Weiss" wrote: > I'm not sure what you're objecting to, as you seem to be paraphrasing > what I said. In the best of all possible worlds there would probably > be some voluntary prostitution, but I'd still wonder at the > psychological cost to those who chose to make their living that way. > Choosing to playact at prostitution, like the women in the poetry > brothel, is simply fantasy, and no more destructive, I'd think, than > wearing a pirate costume. It's under the category of "whatever gets you off." > > Mark > > At 01:45 PM 1/8/2009, steve russell wrote: >> interesting distinction: Genet did a number with the fantasy realm. >> But what, exactly, do you mean, Mark, by the fantasy of >> prostitution? Phone sex? I suppose that's somewhat harmless. But >> that ain't the real thing. When it's real, as in the sex trade, >> we're talking ugly/ugly/ugly. >> >> --- On Tue, 1/6/09, Mark Weiss wrote: >> From: Mark Weiss >> Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 11:41 PM >> >> I think we need to make a distinction between prostitution and the >> fantasy of prostitution. Most prostitution is compelled or a response >> to desperation. Most fantasy prostitution, playing dress-up and the >> like, isn't. >> >> At 02:34 PM 1/6/2009, you wrote: >>> I saw reference in there to men and gigolos. I have a problem with the old >>> school "sex degrades women" feminist argument. Is a the location >> of a >>> brothel and the profession of prostitution *always* and inherently >> degrading >>> to women? I thought there were sex-positive feminists who were working >>> against that idea. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: steve russell [mailto:poet_in_hell@YAHOO.COM] >>> Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 5:49 PM >>> Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory >>> >>> this seems pretty light hearted. >>> I'm sorry to hear about the wicked (objects, et cetera) capitalist. >>> i suspect that the most die hard feminist could enjoy her/himself. >>> >>> --- On Fri, 12/19/08, mIEKAL aND wrote: >>> From: mIEKAL aND >>> Subject: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory >>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>> Date: Friday, December 19, 2008, 4:15 PM >>> >>> New York poetry brothel tempts with verse >>> >>> Published: Friday December 19, 2008 >>> >>> http://rawstory.com/news/afp/New_York_poetry_brothel_tempts_with_12192008.ht >>> ml >>> >>> The prostitute whispers, wets her lips and prepares to bare... her heart >>> with a >>> poem. >>> >>> Welcome to New York's Poetry Brothel, where punters delve between the >>> lines, not the sheets. >>> >>> At a weekend session in a Manhattan night club called the Zipper Factory >> the >>> look was bona fide bordello. >>> >>> Literary ladies of the night flitted between intimate, candle-lit nooks, >> red >>> lights and paintings of nudes. >>> >>> Some of the poetesses for sale sported retro-style garter belts and frilly >>> knickers. One swanned about in a top hat and feather boa. >>> >>> But transactions at the Poetry Brothel are of the mind, not the body, and a >>> moment with the catalogue, replete with pictures and whimsical >> descriptions, >>> reveals what's on offer. >>> >>> Page four boasts The Professor, swearing to have heard "the wail of >> your >>> striving heart drifting over the spires of skyscrapers." >>> >>> Harriett Van Os on page 10 promises to "tell you secrets she >> doesn't >>> know she knows." Cecille Ballroom tempts punters on page 13 claiming >> she >>> can "coax your drum." >>> >>> Gigolo poets are available, not least Poetry Brothel co-founder Nicholas >>> Adamski, who goes by the name Tennessee Pink and tops tempestuous, dark >>> looks >>> with an eye patch. >>> >>> "Poetry is what I love more than anything," cooed The Madame, the >>> sultry spirit behind the whole idea. >>> >>> The Madame -- real name Stephanie Berger -- came dressed for the part in >>> low-cut dress, elbow-length black gloves and a peacock headdress. >>> >>> "I'd rather be in the bedroom hearing poetry than listening to >> some >>> old man sitting on a chair on a stage," she explained by the light of >> a >>> guttering candle. >>> >>> One-on-one encounters, for which "clients" pay three to five >> dollars >>> in addition to a 15 dollar entry fee and one free reading, took place >>> upstairs. >>> >>> The "whores" read from their own material, much of which is free >>> verse, making for intense, sometimes baffling performances. >>> >>> But for those needing a break, the Poetry Brothel laid on flamenco >>> guitarists, >>> a fortune-teller, a blackjack table and a bar specializing in port and >>> whisky >>> >>> The young hedonists, most of them students, appear to have struck a >>> surprisingly successful formula. >>> >>> "There just aren't that many poetry readings where poets show a >> lot of >>> cleavage," said The Professor, otherwise known as Jennifer Michael >> Hecht, >>> aged 43 and a real life professor at Manhattan's New School. >>> >>> She teaches writing to many of the Brothel's regulars and is proud of >> the >>> result. >>> >>> "It's kind of like the Weimar Republic without the Nazis. At two >> in >>> the morning you have 20- or 30-year-olds lying all over the place reading >>> poetry," she said. >>> >>> "The custom is to read poetry alone, but we know that from Homer >> onward, >>> people read it aloud and in groups." >>> >>> By midnight the Zipper Factory was packed and getting fuller -- and >> rowdier. >>> >>> The fortune teller, bedecked in red scarf and blue plumes, mumbled to >>> someone >>> about "choppy waters." The flamenco duo strummed. The Madame, yet >>> another glass of port in hand, introduced poet "whores" in a >> voice >>> suggesting she appreciated more than their literary charms. >>> >>> When Patricia Smith, a well-established poet, took the mike to declaim a >>> long >>> and rhythmical poem about love and making love, there were rock concert >>> cheers >>> from the crowd. >>> >>> "I always shudder when I pray," Smith intoned in a mesmerizing >> voice, >>> "so your name must be a prayer." >>> >>> Even for these bohemians there's no escaping the economic crisis >> sweeping >>> the country. >>> >>> One of the poets, 22-year-old Nina Cheng, was about to start a job at Bear >>> Stearns this year when the bank collapsed. Now she is writing a play about >>> the >>> experience and applying for a playwright's course at Yale. >>> >>> "I'd thought I'd do banking and get into the arts when I >> retired >>> -- not this early," said Cheng, known at the Brothel as The Opium >> Eater. >>> >>> Another poetry prostitute, 27-year-old Rachel Herman-Gross, aka Simone, >>> worried >>> that crashing stock markets will pull the rug from under the arts scene. >>> "It's going to be a lot harder. A lot of artists are sustained by >>> grants from people with money." >>> >>> But one enthusiastic "client" said the ingenuity of the Poetry >>> Brothel proves there are ways to survive. >>> >>> "Money's always been scarce for artists and they're very >>> resourceful people," said Edmund Voyer, 54, a hefty man described as >> an >>> "evangelist" on his business card and who came to the Zipper >> Factory >>> wearing a kilt. >>> >>> His drinking companion, Jennifer Hoa, 27, agreed money and art would always >>> find ways to meet. >>> >>> "I've been a sell-out for years as a corporate lawyer, but I come >>> here," she said. "I can't suppress my artistic side." >>> >>> The Madame promised that the Poetry Brothel welcomed all. >>> >>> "Many are young men with perhaps a secret interest in poems," she >>> murmured. "Just look at the menu. Get a recommendation. Or say you >>> don't care. Say: 'I need poetry. I'm hungry.'" >>> >>> ================================== >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines >>> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ================================== >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines >>> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>> >>> >>> ================================== >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>> guidelines & sub/unsub info: >> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines >> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> >> >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 22:11:09 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory In-Reply-To: <23F1A67648DF430899DB2EB324DFB564@rose> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit but I don't believe either considering it labor or shame on women is right. in a free society women cd dress any way they wanted not just in ways dictated by the society as sexy. On 1/8/09 8:22 PM, "Adam Tobin" wrote: > I did overstate the case a bit -- only because i thought your reaction > against The Poetry Brothel was itself overstated. Of course sex is > different from sewing. > > And sewing is different from mining, and mining is different from picking > cotton, etc. -- all of these industries have had -- and do have -- their own > slavery problems. And all of them have different occupational hazards and > terrible working conditions that need to be addressed, and will only be > addressed if the workers can bargain collectively because the bosses are > interested only in profits etc. etc. etc. > > I propose that a major reason that slavery persists in the sex industry is > that the labor movement has utterly ignored those workers, largely because > of the knee-jerk moralizing that is our culture's rote response to any > mention of sex-work. (and because it apparently takes an involved argument > to convince even well-meaning people that sex can be considered work at > all.) > > (I may be the old-fashioned one here, calling for solidarity across > different types of work. But that old labor-movement ethic seems still > useful to me -- whereas the old "shame-on-the-women-who-dress-like-whores" > ethic seems singularly counterproductive.) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Poetics List (UPenn, UB) [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > Behalf Of Ruth Lepson > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 11:04 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory > > I guess I must be 200 years old--does nobody else agree that it's common > sense that prostitution is essentially different from other kinds of 'work'? > > > On 12/23/08 10:00 PM, "Adam Tobin" wrote: > >> Why is the capitalist exploitation of women at a brothel worse than, >> say, the capitalist exploitation of women at a Zipper Factory? It's >> just a different kind of labor, no? Given that some artists are >> seemingly comfortable with capitalism, why should they not acknowledge >> it in the name of their ventures? >> >> I understand, of course, that brothels have a particular history with >> a particular kind of violence attached to it, but so do factories. Do >> you direct the same righteous anger at Andy Warhol? >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Poetics List (UPenn, UB) [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] >> On Behalf Of Ruth Lepson >> Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 5:01 PM >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory >> >> brothels about as funny as slavery. >> which British feminist? >> >> >> On 12/21/08 1:44 PM, "steve russell" wrote: >> >>> somewhat related: William Styron, the way he waxes his libido in >>> "Sophie's Choice." >>> i'm still looking for the book of essays by the British Feminist who >>> enlightened me. >>> >>> --- On Sat, 12/20/08, Ruth Lepson wrote: >>> From: Ruth Lepson >>> Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory >>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>> Date: Saturday, December 20, 2008, 6:51 PM >>> >>> cooptation of poetry by capitalist objectification of women. not >>> funny. to use a brothel as a metaphor is disgusting. I remember when >>> Denise Levertov criticized a poet for using napalm as a metaphor for >>> personal pain, saying you don't know what it feels like & it's much >>> worse than the way you are characterizing it. >>> >>> >>> On 12/19/08 4:15 PM, "mIEKAL aND" >>> wrote: >>> >>>> New York poetry brothel tempts with verse >>>> >>>> Published: Friday December 19, 2008 >>>> >>>> >>> http://rawstory.com/news/afp/New_York_poetry_brothel_tempts_with_1219 >>> 2 >>> 008.html >>>> >>>> The prostitute whispers, wets her lips and prepares to bare... her >>>> heart with a poem. >>>> >>>> Welcome to New York's Poetry Brothel, where punters delve between >>>> the lines, not the sheets. >>>> >>>> At a weekend session in a Manhattan night club called the Zipper >>>> Factory the look was bona fide bordello. >>>> >>>> Literary ladies of the night flitted between intimate, candle-lit >>>> nooks, red lights and paintings of nudes. >>>> >>>> Some of the poetesses for sale sported retro-style garter belts and >>>> frilly knickers. One swanned about in a top hat and feather boa. >>>> >>>> But transactions at the Poetry Brothel are of the mind, not the >>>> body, and a moment with the catalogue, replete with pictures and >>>> whimsical descriptions, reveals what's on offer. >>>> >>>> Page four boasts The Professor, swearing to have heard "the wail of >>>> your striving heart drifting over the spires of skyscrapers." >>>> >>>> Harriett Van Os on page 10 promises to "tell you secrets she >>> doesn't >>>> know she knows." Cecille Ballroom tempts punters on page 13 claiming >>>> she can "coax your drum." >>>> >>>> Gigolo poets are available, not least Poetry Brothel co-founder >>>> Nicholas Adamski, who goes by the name Tennessee Pink and tops >>>> tempestuous, dark looks with an eye patch. >>>> >>>> "Poetry is what I love more than anything," cooed The Madame, >>> the >>>> sultry spirit behind the whole idea. >>>> >>>> The Madame -- real name Stephanie Berger -- came dressed for the >>>> part in low-cut dress, elbow-length black gloves and a peacock > headdress. >>>> >>>> "I'd rather be in the bedroom hearing poetry than listening to >>> some >>>> old man sitting on a chair on a stage," she explained by the light >>>> of a guttering candle. >>>> >>>> One-on-one encounters, for which "clients" pay three to five >>> dollars >>>> in addition to a 15 dollar entry fee and one free reading, took >>>> place upstairs. >>>> >>>> The "whores" read from their own material, much of which is free >>>> verse, making for intense, sometimes baffling performances. >>>> >>>> But for those needing a break, the Poetry Brothel laid on flamenco >>>> guitarists, a fortune-teller, a blackjack table and a bar >>>> specializing in port and whisky >>>> >>>> The young hedonists, most of them students, appear to have struck a >>>> surprisingly successful formula. >>>> >>>> "There just aren't that many poetry readings where poets show a >>> lot of >>>> cleavage," said The Professor, otherwise known as Jennifer Michael >>>> Hecht, aged 43 and a real life professor at Manhattan's New School. >>>> >>>> She teaches writing to many of the Brothel's regulars and is proud >>>> of the result. >>>> >>>> "It's kind of like the Weimar Republic without the Nazis. At two >>> in >>>> the morning you have 20- or 30-year-olds lying all over the place >>>> reading poetry," she said. >>>> >>>> "The custom is to read poetry alone, but we know that from Homer >>>> onward, people read it aloud and in groups." >>>> >>>> By midnight the Zipper Factory was packed and getting fuller -- and >>>> rowdier. >>>> >>>> The fortune teller, bedecked in red scarf and blue plumes, mumbled >>>> to someone about "choppy waters." The flamenco duo strummed. The >>> Madame, >>>> yet another glass of port in hand, introduced poet "whores" in a >>> voice >>>> suggesting she appreciated more than their literary charms. >>>> >>>> When Patricia Smith, a well-established poet, took the mike to >>>> declaim a long and rhythmical poem about love and making love, there >>>> were rock concert cheers from the crowd. >>>> >>>> "I always shudder when I pray," Smith intoned in a mesmerizing >>> voice, >>>> "so your name must be a prayer." >>>> >>>> Even for these bohemians there's no escaping the economic crisis >>>> sweeping the country. >>>> >>>> One of the poets, 22-year-old Nina Cheng, was about to start a job >>>> at Bear Stearns this year when the bank collapsed. Now she is >>>> writing a play about the experience and applying for a playwright's >>>> course at Yale. >>>> >>>> "I'd thought I'd do banking and get into the arts when I >>> retired -- >>>> not this early," said Cheng, known at the Brothel as The Opium Eater. >>>> >>>> Another poetry prostitute, 27-year-old Rachel Herman-Gross, aka >>>> Simone, worried that crashing stock markets will pull the rug from >>>> under the arts scene. "It's going to be a lot harder. A lot of >>> artists >>>> are sustained by grants from people with money." >>>> >>>> But one enthusiastic "client" said the ingenuity of the Poetry >>> Brothel >>>> proves there are ways to survive. >>>> >>>> "Money's always been scarce for artists and they're very >>> resourceful >>>> people," said Edmund Voyer, 54, a hefty man described as an >>>> "evangelist" on his business card and who came to the Zipper >>> Factory >>>> wearing a kilt. >>>> >>>> His drinking companion, Jennifer Hoa, 27, agreed money and art would >>>> always find ways to meet. >>>> >>>> "I've been a sell-out for years as a corporate lawyer, but I come >>>> here," she said. "I can't suppress my artistic side." >>>> >>>> The Madame promised that the Poetry Brothel welcomed all. >>>> >>>> "Many are young men with perhaps a secret interest in poems," >>> she >>>> murmured. "Just look at the menu. Get a recommendation. Or say you >>>> don't care. Say: 'I need poetry. I'm hungry.'" >>>> >>>> ================================== >>>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>> guidelines & >>>> sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>> >>> ================================== >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>> guidelines & sub/unsub info: >>> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ================================== >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>> guidelines & sub/unsub info: >>> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>> >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: >> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: >> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 22:12:23 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory In-Reply-To: <464130.32199.qm@web46203.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit this is getting depressing. why don't you try being a prostitute for a week and see how you feel about it. why is it puritanism to imagine an egalitarian world where women are not objectified? On 1/8/09 8:44 PM, "Troy Camplin" wrote: > Let them. Ever heard of male prostitutes? Giggalos? I don't know what this had > to do with reductivism. I would argue that the world is far more complex than > the simple black and white approach you are taking to prostitution. It is the > institution it is because it is illegal and stigmatized. You it is in fact > your attitude toward it that makes it the degrading job it is. You are the one > rejecting this or that sexual expression as wrong or degrading or something > that should be made illegal. It your puritanism that's wrong-headed in my > opinion, and the inability to think outside of that puritanistic ethic. > > > Troy Camplin > > > > ________________________________ > From: amy king > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Thursday, January 8, 2009 5:03:29 PM > Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory > > This is so wrong-headed, Troy, that I don't even know where to begin. I'm not > talking about the debate over legalizing prostitution; I'm referring to your > reductive, ridiculously simplistic rationale: Prostitution is just anatomy, > Troy? That's right in line with your reasoning that you can't possibly be > racist because you're married to a minority. Some news, Troy: you can be > racist even if you are a minority! Ever heard of a self-loathing [insert your > label here]? I can even be homophobic while being a lesbian! Such a > reductionist claim is the primary pillar used to defend prostitution by the > men who use and abuse the women stuck in that system, happily ignoring the > psychological damage they pay to "work" these women -- "it's just anatomy" > allows these guys to revel in the role they play in maintaining and enjoying > such a crappy system that preys upon the systematic abuse of girls and women > as well as economically-deprived women, who > end up stuck using "a different set of muscles" to sustain themselves and > likely their children whose father is nowhere to be seen, except possibly in > one of those lines now asking the government to bail himself and his favorite > industry out > (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/07/porn-bailout-larry-flynt_n_155878.ht > ml ). Let those fathers and men turn to prostitution, then! It's just > anatomy, after all. > > Amy > > > _______ > > > > > > Recent work > > http://www.writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/King.html > > > > Amy's Alias > > http://amyking.org/ > > --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Troy Camplin wrote: > From: Troy Camplin > Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 12:26 AM > > I think prostitution should be legalized precisely because of all the problems > that come about precisely because it's not legal and because in a free > market, two free adults should be able to enter into any sort of relationship > they desire, whether that be employee-employer, prostitute-client, > artist-patron, or any other sort of relationship. Prostitution is no different > than a woman who has sex with a guy she has no intention of seeing again after > accepting an expensive dinner and some drinks from him -- only she gets the > money directly, and can use the money (hopefully) more wisely. So you think > that > it's a different kind of work only because genitalia are involved? It's > labor using a different set of muscles is all. > > Troy Camplin > > > > ________________________________ > From: Ruth Lepson > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2009 10:04:06 PM > Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory > > I guess I must be 200 years old--does nobody else agree that it's common > sense that prostitution is essentially different from other kinds of > 'work'? > > > On 12/23/08 10:00 PM, "Adam Tobin" > wrote: > >> Why is the capitalist exploitation of women at a brothel worse than, say, >> the capitalist exploitation of women at a Zipper Factory? It's just a >> different kind of labor, no? Given that some artists are seemingly >> comfortable with capitalism, why should they not acknowledge it in the > name >> of their ventures? >> >> I understand, of course, that brothels have a particular history with a >> particular kind of violence attached to it, but so do factories. Do you >> direct the same righteous anger at Andy Warhol? >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Poetics List (UPenn, UB) [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On >> Behalf Of Ruth Lepson >> Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 5:01 PM >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory >> >> brothels about as funny as slavery. >> which British feminist? >> >> >> On 12/21/08 1:44 PM, "steve russell" > wrote: >> >>> somewhat related: William Styron, the way he waxes his libido in >>> "Sophie's Choice." >>> i'm still looking for the book of essays by the British Feminist > who >>> enlightened me. >>> >>> --- On Sat, 12/20/08, Ruth Lepson > wrote: >>> From: Ruth Lepson >>> Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory >>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>> Date: Saturday, December 20, 2008, 6:51 PM >>> >>> cooptation of poetry by capitalist objectification of women. not >>> funny. to use a brothel as a metaphor is disgusting. I remember when >>> Denise Levertov criticized a poet for using napalm as a metaphor for >>> personal pain, saying you don't know what it feels like & > it's much >>> worse than the way you are characterizing it. >>> >>> >>> On 12/19/08 4:15 PM, "mIEKAL aND" > >>> wrote: >>> >>>> New York poetry brothel tempts with verse >>>> >>>> Published: Friday December 19, 2008 >>>> >>>> >>> http://rawstory.com/news/afp/New_York_poetry_brothel_tempts_with_12192 >>> 008.html >>>> >>>> The prostitute whispers, wets her lips and prepares to bare... her >>>> heart with a poem. >>>> >>>> Welcome to New York's Poetry Brothel, where punters delve > between the >>>> lines, not the sheets. >>>> >>>> At a weekend session in a Manhattan night club called the Zipper >>>> Factory the look was bona fide bordello. >>>> >>>> Literary ladies of the night flitted between intimate, candle-lit >>>> nooks, red lights and paintings of nudes. >>>> >>>> Some of the poetesses for sale sported retro-style garter belts > and >>>> frilly knickers. One swanned about in a top hat and feather boa. >>>> >>>> But transactions at the Poetry Brothel are of the mind, not the > body, >>>> and a moment with the catalogue, replete with pictures and > whimsical >>>> descriptions, reveals what's on offer. >>>> >>>> Page four boasts The Professor, swearing to have heard "the > wail of >>>> your striving heart drifting over the spires of skyscrapers." >>>> >>>> Harriett Van Os on page 10 promises to "tell you secrets she >>> doesn't >>>> know she knows." Cecille Ballroom tempts punters on page 13 > claiming >>>> she can "coax your drum." >>>> >>>> Gigolo poets are available, not least Poetry Brothel co-founder >>>> Nicholas Adamski, who goes by the name Tennessee Pink and tops >>>> tempestuous, dark looks with an eye patch. >>>> >>>> "Poetry is what I love more than anything," cooed The > Madame, >>> the >>>> sultry spirit behind the whole idea. >>>> >>>> The Madame -- real name Stephanie Berger -- came dressed for the > part >>>> in low-cut dress, elbow-length black gloves and a peacock > headdress. >>>> >>>> "I'd rather be in the bedroom hearing poetry than > listening to >>> some >>>> old man sitting on a chair on a stage," she explained by the > light of >>>> a guttering candle. >>>> >>>> One-on-one encounters, for which "clients" pay three to > five >>> dollars >>>> in addition to a 15 dollar entry fee and one free reading, took > place >>>> upstairs. >>>> >>>> The "whores" read from their own material, much of which > is free >>>> verse, making for intense, sometimes baffling performances. >>>> >>>> But for those needing a break, the Poetry Brothel laid on flamenco >>>> guitarists, a fortune-teller, a blackjack table and a bar >>>> specializing in port and whisky >>>> >>>> The young hedonists, most of them students, appear to have struck > a >>>> surprisingly successful formula. >>>> >>>> "There just aren't that many poetry readings where poets > show a >>> lot of >>>> cleavage," said The Professor, otherwise known as Jennifer > Michael >>>> Hecht, aged 43 and a real life professor at Manhattan's New > School. >>>> >>>> She teaches writing to many of the Brothel's regulars and is > proud of >>>> the result. >>>> >>>> "It's kind of like the Weimar Republic without the Nazis. > At two >>> in >>>> the morning you have 20- or 30-year-olds lying all over the place >>>> reading poetry," she said. >>>> >>>> "The custom is to read poetry alone, but we know that from > Homer >>>> onward, people read it aloud and in groups." >>>> >>>> By midnight the Zipper Factory was packed and getting fuller -- > and >>>> rowdier. >>>> >>>> The fortune teller, bedecked in red scarf and blue plumes, mumbled > to >>>> someone about "choppy waters." The flamenco duo > strummed. The >>> Madame, >>>> yet another glass of port in hand, introduced poet > "whores" in a >>> voice >>>> suggesting she appreciated more than their literary charms. >>>> >>>> When Patricia Smith, a well-established poet, took the mike to >>>> declaim a long and rhythmical poem about love and making love, > there >>>> were rock concert cheers from the crowd. >>>> >>>> "I always shudder when I pray," Smith intoned in a > mesmerizing >>> voice, >>>> "so your name must be a prayer." >>>> >>>> Even for these bohemians there's no escaping the economic > crisis >>>> sweeping the country. >>>> >>>> One of the poets, 22-year-old Nina Cheng, was about to start a job > at >>>> Bear Stearns this year when the bank collapsed. Now she is writing > a >>>> play about the experience and applying for a playwright's > course at >>>> Yale. >>>> >>>> "I'd thought I'd do banking and get into the arts > when I >>> retired -- >>>> not this early," said Cheng, known at the Brothel as The > Opium Eater. >>>> >>>> Another poetry prostitute, 27-year-old Rachel Herman-Gross, aka >>>> Simone, worried that crashing stock markets will pull the rug from >>>> under the arts scene. "It's going to be a lot harder. A > lot of >>> artists >>>> are sustained by grants from people with money." >>>> >>>> But one enthusiastic "client" said the ingenuity of the > Poetry >>> Brothel >>>> proves there are ways to survive. >>>> >>>> "Money's always been scarce for artists and they're > very >>> resourceful >>>> people," said Edmund Voyer, 54, a hefty man described as an >>>> "evangelist" on his business card and who came to the > Zipper >>> Factory >>>> wearing a kilt. >>>> >>>> His drinking companion, Jennifer Hoa, 27, agreed money and art > would >>>> always find ways to meet. >>>> >>>> "I've been a sell-out for years as a corporate lawyer, > but I come >>>> here," she said. "I can't suppress my artistic > side." >>>> >>>> The Madame promised that the Poetry Brothel welcomed all. >>>> >>>> "Many are young men with perhaps a secret interest in > poems," >>> she >>>> murmured. "Just look at the menu. Get a recommendation. Or > say you >>>> don't care. Say: 'I need poetry. I'm > hungry.'" >>>> >>>> ================================== >>>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. > Check >>> guidelines & >>>> sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>> >>> ================================== >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>> guidelines & sub/unsub info: >>> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ================================== >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>> guidelines & sub/unsub info: >>> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>> >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines >> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & >> sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 22:56:45 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: CA Conrad Subject: Re: OPEN LETTER to Rick Warren's new friend Melissa Etheridge MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sharon Mesmer wrote: << ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 23:05:47 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Poetics List Subject: Fwd: Tango with Cows [on behalf of Deborah A. Meadows] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Deborah A. Meadows Date: Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 6:13 PM Subject: Tango with Cows To: poetics.list@gmail.com Poetics list, I just came upon this: http://www.getty.edu/art/exhibitions/tango_with_cows/ It's a link to Russian Avant-garde book exhibited at The Getty presently. It has a great feature on the right hand side "Page through Books," so four of the books load allowing you to turn pages, click for an audio reading of poems, click for English translation. The book "Explodity (Vzoral)"1914 has K. Malevich artwork, etc. Deborah Meadows ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 22:59:25 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory Comments: To: amyhappens@yahoo.com In-Reply-To: <991683.16012.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable thank you, Amy. Well said. On 1/8/09 10:42 PM, "amy king" wrote: > Way to try to flip the script, Troy.=A0 If you call me a Puritan (your usua= l > name-calling and labeling tactic), maybe no one will notice that you are = the > one with the "black and white approach." The "Puritan" accusation remains= the > old stand-by, an all too common justification against anyone critical of = a > system that certainly capitalizes on the disenfranchisement (and abuse) o= f > women, no matter how many ways you try to spin what happens in a > sex-(and-often-worse)-for-cash exchange.=A0 Prostitution is just "a differe= nt > set of muscles" is as reductive a defense as you can get.=A0 >=20 > And trying to make "prostitution" synonymous with "sexual expression" is = yet > another way to render invisible the harshness that real prostitutes --not > romanticized made-for-TV dominatrices-- contend with daily to survive.=A0 I= t > would be very convenient for your fantastical rationale if it were only m= y > "attitude toward it that makes it the degrading job it is."=A0 Sometimes wo= men, > and some men, risk speaking out against the atrocities that prostitutes h= ave > to face and are often accused of such nonsense as "degrading the job" in = an > effort to shut us up.=A0 The risk for those of us who are critical of such = an > "industry" is that each time we speak, several people, often men, will th= en > accuse of us of all sorts of "Puritanical" reactions, and then we get to = hear > the justifications of why prostitution is really great and just "sexual > expression." >=20 > The majority of prostitutes in the world are women, and the majority of t= hem > enter the "trade" because of acute poverty, prior emotional/sexual abuse,= or > have been kidnapped.=A0=A0 In the latter case, the girls and women have been > trafficked and are slaves, not workers even in the remotest sense.=A0 Only = a > very small percentage of prostitutes will say they do what they do for "s= exual > expression", and often prostitutes turn to drug use just to get through t= he > "work".=A0 So much for "expression."=A0 Rare is the glamorous house run and > protected by a madame who pays her luxuriating prostitutes well.=A0 Much, m= uch > more common is the work demanded by a pimp who puts his "workers" at risk= by > making johns pay more so that the "workers" will be forced to go bareback= or > worse.=A0 Even legalized, I doubt the hierarchy of disbursement in such an > industry would change; the "business", run by men, would get the most mon= ey, > starting with whomever owned the "business" and on > down to the bouncers, while the prostitutes would continue to receive a = very > small percentage, despite the fact that it is their bodies that are put a= t > risk, that perform, and receive, all of the "work," and the ensuing > psychological and physical harm that we would like to tiptoe around and > pretend doesn't happen since one "chooses" to enter such an exchange.=A0 >=20 > The actual work of handing your body over to a stranger for some cash, > paradoxically so that your body can continue to survive, is what makes th= e > "job" degrading, Troy.=A0=A0 Call me a Puritan and any other names you like, = call > it "sexual expression" when the livery drivers in my neighborhood pay poo= r > women twenty bucks for a blow job between cars or in the front seat, but > please try to imagine the details of the work you are trying to romantici= ze > before you reduce what these women do to "sexual expression" and "workers= " > just using a "different set of muscles".=A0 >=20 > Amy >=20 > _______ >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Recent work >=20 > http://www.writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/King.html >=20 >=20 >=20 > Amy's Alias >=20 > http://amyking.org/ >=20 > --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Troy Camplin wrote: > From: Troy Camplin > Subject: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 8:44 PM >=20 > Let them. Ever heard of male prostitutes? Giggalos? I don't know what thi= s > had to do with reductivism. I would argue that the world is far more comp= lex > than the simple black and white approach you are taking to prostitution. = It is > the institution it is because it is illegal and stigmatized. You it is in= fact > your attitude toward it that makes it the degrading job it is. You are th= e one > rejecting this or that sexual expression as wrong or degrading or somethi= ng > that > should be made illegal. It your puritanism that's wrong-headed in my > opinion, and the inability to think outside of that puritanistic ethic. >=20 >=20 > Troy Camplin >=20 >=20 >=20 > ________________________________ > From: amy king > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Thursday, January 8, 2009 5:03:29 PM > Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory >=20 > This is so wrong-headed, Troy, that I don't even know where to begin. > I'm not talking about the debate over legalizing prostitution; I'm > referring to your reductive, ridiculously simplistic rationale: Prostit= ution > is just anatomy, Troy? That's right in line with your reasoning that you > can't possibly be racist because you're married to a minority. Some > news, Troy: you can be racist even if you are a minority! Ever heard of= a > self-loathing [insert your label here]? I can even be homophobic while b= eing > a > lesbian! Such a reductionist claim is the primary pillar used to defend > prostitution by the men who use and abuse the women stuck in that system, > happily ignoring the psychological damage they pay to "work" these > women -- "it's just anatomy" allows these guys to revel in the > role they play in maintaining and enjoying such a crappy system that prey= s > upon > the systematic abuse of girls and women as well as economically-deprived > women, > who > end up stuck using "a different set of muscles" to sustain themselves > and likely their children whose father is nowhere to be seen, except poss= ibly > in > one of those lines now asking the government to bail himself and his favo= rite > industry out > (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/07/porn-bailout-larry-flynt_n_1558= 78.ht > ml > ). Let those fathers and men turn to prostitution, then! It's just > anatomy, after all. >=20 > Amy >=20 >=20 > _______ >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Recent work >=20 > http://www.writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/King.html >=20 >=20 >=20 > Amy's Alias >=20 > http://amyking.org/ >=20 > --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Troy Camplin wrote: > From: Troy Camplin > Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 12:26 AM >=20 > I think prostitution should be legalized precisely because of all the pro= blems > that come about precisely because it's not legal and because in a free > market, two free adults should be able to enter into any sort of relation= ship > they desire, whether that be employee-employer, prostitute-client, > artist-patron, or any other sort of relationship. Prostitution is no diff= erent > than a woman who has sex with a guy she has no intention of seeing again = after > accepting an expensive dinner and some drinks from him -- only she gets t= he > money directly, and can use the money (hopefully) more wisely. So you thi= nk > that > it's a different kind of work only because genitalia are involved? It's > labor using a different set of muscles is all. >=20 > Troy Camplin >=20 >=20 >=20 > ________________________________ > From: Ruth Lepson > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2009 10:04:06 PM > Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory >=20 > I guess I must be 200 years old--does nobody else agree that it's common > sense that prostitution is essentially different from other kinds of > 'work'? >=20 >=20 > On 12/23/08 10:00 PM, "Adam Tobin" > wrote: >=20 >> Why is the capitalist exploitation of women at a brothel worse than, say= , >> the capitalist exploitation of women at a Zipper Factory? It's just a >> different kind of labor, no? Given that some artists are seemingly >> comfortable with capitalism, why should they not acknowledge it in the > name >> of their ventures? >>=20 >> I understand, of course, that brothels have a particular history with a >> particular kind of violence attached to it, but so do factories. Do you >> direct the same righteous anger at Andy Warhol? >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Poetics List (UPenn, UB) [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On >> Behalf Of Ruth Lepson >> Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 5:01 PM >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory >>=20 >> brothels about as funny as slavery. >> which British feminist? >>=20 >>=20 >> On 12/21/08 1:44 PM, "steve russell" > wrote: >>=20 >>> somewhat related: William Styron, the way he waxes his libido in >>> "Sophie's Choice." >>> i'm still looking for the book of essays by the British Feminist > who >>> enlightened me. >>>=20 >>> --- On Sat, 12/20/08, Ruth Lepson > wrote: >>> From: Ruth Lepson >>> Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory >>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>> Date: Saturday, December 20, 2008, 6:51 PM >>>=20 >>> cooptation of poetry by capitalist objectification of women. not >>> funny. to use a brothel as a metaphor is disgusting. I remember when >>> Denise Levertov criticized a poet for using napalm as a metaphor for >>> personal pain, saying you don't know what it feels like & > it's much >>> worse than the way you are characterizing it. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On 12/19/08 4:15 PM, "mIEKAL aND" > >>> wrote: >>>=20 >>>> New York poetry brothel tempts with verse >>>>=20 >>>> Published: Friday December 19, 2008 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>> http://rawstory.com/news/afp/New_York_poetry_brothel_tempts_with_12192 >>> 008.html >>>>=20 >>>> The prostitute whispers, wets her lips and prepares to bare... her >>>> heart with a poem. >>>>=20 >>>> Welcome to New York's Poetry Brothel, where punters delve > between the >>>> lines, not the sheets. >>>>=20 >>>> At a weekend session in a Manhattan night club called the Zipper >>>> Factory the look was bona fide bordello. >>>>=20 >>>> Literary ladies of the night flitted between intimate, candle-lit >>>> nooks, red lights and paintings of nudes. >>>>=20 >>>> Some of the poetesses for sale sported retro-style garter belts > and >>>> frilly knickers. One swanned about in a top hat and feather boa. >>>>=20 >>>> But transactions at the Poetry Brothel are of the mind, not the > body, >>>> and a moment with the catalogue, replete with pictures and > whimsical >>>> descriptions, reveals what's on offer. >>>>=20 >>>> Page four boasts The Professor, swearing to have heard "the > wail of >>>> your striving heart drifting over the spires of skyscrapers." >>>>=20 >>>> Harriett Van Os on page 10 promises to "tell you secrets she >>> doesn't >>>> know she knows." Cecille Ballroom tempts punters on page 13 > claiming >>>> she can "coax your drum." >>>>=20 >>>> Gigolo poets are available, not least Poetry Brothel co-founder >>>> Nicholas Adamski, who goes by the name Tennessee Pink and tops >>>> tempestuous, dark looks with an eye patch. >>>>=20 >>>> "Poetry is what I love more than anything," cooed The > Madame, >>> the >>>> sultry spirit behind the whole idea. >>>>=20 >>>> The Madame -- real name Stephanie Berger -- came dressed for the > part >>>> in low-cut dress, elbow-length black gloves and a peacock > headdress. >>>>=20 >>>> "I'd rather be in the bedroom hearing poetry than > listening to >>> some >>>> old man sitting on a chair on a stage," she explained by the > light of >>>> a guttering candle. >>>>=20 >>>> One-on-one encounters, for which "clients" pay three to > five >>> dollars >>>> in addition to a 15 dollar entry fee and one free reading, took > place >>>> upstairs. >>>>=20 >>>> The "whores" read from their own material, much of which > is free >>>> verse, making for intense, sometimes baffling performances. >>>>=20 >>>> But for those needing a break, the Poetry Brothel laid on flamenco >>>> guitarists, a fortune-teller, a blackjack table and a bar >>>> specializing in port and whisky >>>>=20 >>>> The young hedonists, most of them students, appear to have struck > a >>>> surprisingly successful formula. >>>>=20 >>>> "There just aren't that many poetry readings where poets > show a >>> lot of >>>> cleavage," said The Professor, otherwise known as Jennifer > Michael >>>> Hecht, aged 43 and a real life professor at Manhattan's New > School. >>>>=20 >>>> She teaches writing to many of the Brothel's regulars and is > proud of >>>> the result. >>>>=20 >>>> "It's kind of like the Weimar Republic without the Nazis. > At two >>> in >>>> the morning you have 20- or 30-year-olds lying all over the place >>>> reading poetry," she said. >>>>=20 >>>> "The custom is to read poetry alone, but we know that from > Homer >>>> onward, people read it aloud and in groups." >>>>=20 >>>> By midnight the Zipper Factory was packed and getting fuller -- > and >>>> rowdier. >>>>=20 >>>> The fortune teller, bedecked in red scarf and blue plumes, mumbled > to >>>> someone about "choppy waters." The flamenco duo > strummed. The >>> Madame, >>>> yet another glass of port in hand, introduced poet > "whores" in a >>> voice >>>> suggesting she appreciated more than their literary charms. >>>>=20 >>>> When Patricia Smith, a well-established poet, took the mike to >>>> declaim a long and rhythmical poem about love and making love, > there >>>> were rock concert cheers from the crowd. >>>>=20 >>>> "I always shudder when I pray," Smith intoned in a > mesmerizing >>> voice, >>>> "so your name must be a prayer." >>>>=20 >>>> Even for these bohemians there's no escaping the economic > crisis >>>> sweeping the country. >>>>=20 >>>> One of the poets, 22-year-old Nina Cheng, was about to start a job > at >>>> Bear Stearns this year when the bank collapsed. Now she is writing > a >>>> play about the experience and applying for a playwright's > course at >>>> Yale. >>>>=20 >>>> "I'd thought I'd do banking and get into the arts > when I >>> retired -- >>>> not this early," said Cheng, known at the Brothel as The > Opium Eater. >>>>=20 >>>> Another poetry prostitute, 27-year-old Rachel Herman-Gross, aka >>>> Simone, worried that crashing stock markets will pull the rug from >>>> under the arts scene. "It's going to be a lot harder. A > lot of >>> artists >>>> are sustained by grants from people with money." >>>>=20 >>>> But one enthusiastic "client" said the ingenuity of the > Poetry >>> Brothel >>>> proves there are ways to survive. >>>>=20 >>>> "Money's always been scarce for artists and they're > very >>> resourceful >>>> people," said Edmund Voyer, 54, a hefty man described as an >>>> "evangelist" on his business card and who came to the > Zipper >>> Factory >>>> wearing a kilt. >>>>=20 >>>> His drinking companion, Jennifer Hoa, 27, agreed money and art > would >>>> always find ways to meet. >>>>=20 >>>> "I've been a sell-out for years as a corporate lawyer, > but I come >>>> here," she said. "I can't suppress my artistic > side." >>>>=20 >>>> The Madame promised that the Poetry Brothel welcomed all. >>>>=20 >>>> "Many are young men with perhaps a secret interest in > poems," >>> she >>>> murmured. "Just look at the menu. Get a recommendation. Or > say you >>>> don't care. Say: 'I need poetry. I'm > hungry.'" >>>>=20 >>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. > Check >>> guidelines & >>>> sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>>=20 >>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>> guidelines & sub/unsub info: >>> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>> guidelines & sub/unsub info: >>> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>> =20 >>=20 >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines >> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>=20 >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & >> sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 23:12:43 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed When we all wear golden slippers and are pure of heart things may be different. Til then even women get to enjoy whatever fantasy. Though I imagine some will deconstruct their motives. Years ago I was invited to a party in the Hamptons. Turns out it was a "lingerie and toga" party. Nobody told me, so I wasn't dressed appropriately. It was a lot of young professionals, dressed as the name suggests. It was very sad, not because of the indecorous clothes, but because it was otherwise crushingly decorous. Go figure. Young men and women are in the business of getting each others' attention. Appears to be instinctual. Seems a shame to judge them for it. Mark At 10:08 PM 1/8/2009, Ruth Lepson wrote: >but WHY something gets you off is the question. > > >On 1/8/09 6:37 PM, "Mark Weiss" wrote: > > > I'm not sure what you're objecting to, as you seem to be paraphrasing > > what I said. In the best of all possible worlds there would probably > > be some voluntary prostitution, but I'd still wonder at the > > psychological cost to those who chose to make their living that way. > > Choosing to playact at prostitution, like the women in the poetry > > brothel, is simply fantasy, and no more destructive, I'd think, than > > wearing a pirate costume. It's under the category of "whatever > gets you off." > > > > Mark > > > > At 01:45 PM 1/8/2009, steve russell wrote: > >> interesting distinction: Genet did a number with the fantasy realm. > >> But what, exactly, do you mean, Mark, by the fantasy of > >> prostitution? Phone sex? I suppose that's somewhat harmless. But > >> that ain't the real thing. When it's real, as in the sex trade, > >> we're talking ugly/ugly/ugly. > >> > >> --- On Tue, 1/6/09, Mark Weiss wrote: > >> From: Mark Weiss > >> Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory > >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >> Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 11:41 PM > >> > >> I think we need to make a distinction between prostitution and the > >> fantasy of prostitution. Most prostitution is compelled or a response > >> to desperation. Most fantasy prostitution, playing dress-up and the > >> like, isn't. > >> > >> At 02:34 PM 1/6/2009, you wrote: > >>> I saw reference in there to men and gigolos. I have a problem > with the old > >>> school "sex degrades women" feminist argument. Is a the location > >> of a > >>> brothel and the profession of prostitution *always* and inherently > >> degrading > >>> to women? I thought there were sex-positive feminists who were working > >>> against that idea. > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: steve russell [mailto:poet_in_hell@YAHOO.COM] > >>> Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 5:49 PM > >>> Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory > >>> > >>> this seems pretty light hearted. > >>> I'm sorry to hear about the wicked (objects, et cetera) capitalist. > >>> i suspect that the most die hard feminist could enjoy her/himself. > >>> > >>> --- On Fri, 12/19/08, mIEKAL aND wrote: > >>> From: mIEKAL aND > >>> Subject: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory > >>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >>> Date: Friday, December 19, 2008, 4:15 PM > >>> > >>> New York poetry brothel tempts with verse > >>> > >>> Published: Friday December 19, 2008 > >>> > >>> > http://rawstory.com/news/afp/New_York_poetry_brothel_tempts_with_12192008.ht > >>> ml > >>> > >>> The prostitute whispers, wets her lips and prepares to bare... her heart > >>> with a > >>> poem. > >>> > >>> Welcome to New York's Poetry Brothel, where punters delve between the > >>> lines, not the sheets. > >>> > >>> At a weekend session in a Manhattan night club called the Zipper Factory > >> the > >>> look was bona fide bordello. > >>> > >>> Literary ladies of the night flitted between intimate, candle-lit nooks, > >> red > >>> lights and paintings of nudes. > >>> > >>> Some of the poetesses for sale sported retro-style garter belts > and frilly > >>> knickers. One swanned about in a top hat and feather boa. > >>> > >>> But transactions at the Poetry Brothel are of the mind, not the > body, and a > >>> moment with the catalogue, replete with pictures and whimsical > >> descriptions, > >>> reveals what's on offer. > >>> > >>> Page four boasts The Professor, swearing to have heard "the wail of > >> your > >>> striving heart drifting over the spires of skyscrapers." > >>> > >>> Harriett Van Os on page 10 promises to "tell you secrets she > >> doesn't > >>> know she knows." Cecille Ballroom tempts punters on page 13 claiming > >> she > >>> can "coax your drum." > >>> > >>> Gigolo poets are available, not least Poetry Brothel co-founder Nicholas > >>> Adamski, who goes by the name Tennessee Pink and tops tempestuous, dark > >>> looks > >>> with an eye patch. > >>> > >>> "Poetry is what I love more than anything," cooed The Madame, the > >>> sultry spirit behind the whole idea. > >>> > >>> The Madame -- real name Stephanie Berger -- came dressed for the part in > >>> low-cut dress, elbow-length black gloves and a peacock headdress. > >>> > >>> "I'd rather be in the bedroom hearing poetry than listening to > >> some > >>> old man sitting on a chair on a stage," she explained by the light of > >> a > >>> guttering candle. > >>> > >>> One-on-one encounters, for which "clients" pay three to five > >> dollars > >>> in addition to a 15 dollar entry fee and one free reading, took place > >>> upstairs. > >>> > >>> The "whores" read from their own material, much of which is free > >>> verse, making for intense, sometimes baffling performances. > >>> > >>> But for those needing a break, the Poetry Brothel laid on flamenco > >>> guitarists, > >>> a fortune-teller, a blackjack table and a bar specializing in port and > >>> whisky > >>> > >>> The young hedonists, most of them students, appear to have struck a > >>> surprisingly successful formula. > >>> > >>> "There just aren't that many poetry readings where poets show a > >> lot of > >>> cleavage," said The Professor, otherwise known as Jennifer Michael > >> Hecht, > >>> aged 43 and a real life professor at Manhattan's New School. > >>> > >>> She teaches writing to many of the Brothel's regulars and is proud of > >> the > >>> result. > >>> > >>> "It's kind of like the Weimar Republic without the Nazis. At two > >> in > >>> the morning you have 20- or 30-year-olds lying all over the place reading > >>> poetry," she said. > >>> > >>> "The custom is to read poetry alone, but we know that from Homer > >> onward, > >>> people read it aloud and in groups." > >>> > >>> By midnight the Zipper Factory was packed and getting fuller -- and > >> rowdier. > >>> > >>> The fortune teller, bedecked in red scarf and blue plumes, mumbled to > >>> someone > >>> about "choppy waters." The flamenco duo strummed. The Madame, yet > >>> another glass of port in hand, introduced poet "whores" in a > >> voice > >>> suggesting she appreciated more than their literary charms. > >>> > >>> When Patricia Smith, a well-established poet, took the mike to declaim a > >>> long > >>> and rhythmical poem about love and making love, there were rock concert > >>> cheers > >>> from the crowd. > >>> > >>> "I always shudder when I pray," Smith intoned in a mesmerizing > >> voice, > >>> "so your name must be a prayer." > >>> > >>> Even for these bohemians there's no escaping the economic crisis > >> sweeping > >>> the country. > >>> > >>> One of the poets, 22-year-old Nina Cheng, was about to start a > job at Bear > >>> Stearns this year when the bank collapsed. Now she is writing a > play about > >>> the > >>> experience and applying for a playwright's course at Yale. > >>> > >>> "I'd thought I'd do banking and get into the arts when I > >> retired > >>> -- not this early," said Cheng, known at the Brothel as The Opium > >> Eater. > >>> > >>> Another poetry prostitute, 27-year-old Rachel Herman-Gross, aka Simone, > >>> worried > >>> that crashing stock markets will pull the rug from under the arts scene. > >>> "It's going to be a lot harder. A lot of artists are sustained by > >>> grants from people with money." > >>> > >>> But one enthusiastic "client" said the ingenuity of the Poetry > >>> Brothel proves there are ways to survive. > >>> > >>> "Money's always been scarce for artists and they're very > >>> resourceful people," said Edmund Voyer, 54, a hefty man described as > >> an > >>> "evangelist" on his business card and who came to the Zipper > >> Factory > >>> wearing a kilt. > >>> > >>> His drinking companion, Jennifer Hoa, 27, agreed money and art > would always > >>> find ways to meet. > >>> > >>> "I've been a sell-out for years as a corporate lawyer, but I come > >>> here," she said. "I can't suppress my artistic side." > >>> > >>> The Madame promised that the Poetry Brothel welcomed all. > >>> > >>> "Many are young men with perhaps a secret interest in poems," she > >>> murmured. "Just look at the menu. Get a recommendation. Or say you > >>> don't care. Say: 'I need poetry. I'm hungry.'" > >>> > >>> ================================== > >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > >> guidelines > >>> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ================================== > >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > >> guidelines > >>> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > >>> > >>> > >>> ================================== > >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > >>> guidelines & sub/unsub info: > >> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > >> > >> ================================== > >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines > >> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ================================== > >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > >> > > > > ================================== > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & > > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > >================================== >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 20:19:37 -0800 Reply-To: poet_in_hell@yahoo.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve russell Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii isn't prostitution legal in Denmark? as well as certain narcotics? with our luck, we'll have a prostitution czar. the labor movement has no choice but to ignore sex workers since they're not protected by the law. their work, after all, is considered unlawful. --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Ruth Lepson wrote: From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 10:11 PM but I don't believe either considering it labor or shame on women is right. in a free society women cd dress any way they wanted not just in ways dictated by the society as sexy. On 1/8/09 8:22 PM, "Adam Tobin" wrote: > I did overstate the case a bit -- only because i thought your reaction > against The Poetry Brothel was itself overstated. Of course sex is > different from sewing. > > And sewing is different from mining, and mining is different from picking > cotton, etc. -- all of these industries have had -- and do have -- their own > slavery problems. And all of them have different occupational hazards and > terrible working conditions that need to be addressed, and will only be > addressed if the workers can bargain collectively because the bosses are > interested only in profits etc. etc. etc. > > I propose that a major reason that slavery persists in the sex industry is > that the labor movement has utterly ignored those workers, largely because > of the knee-jerk moralizing that is our culture's rote response to any > mention of sex-work. (and because it apparently takes an involved argument > to convince even well-meaning people that sex can be considered work at > all.) > > (I may be the old-fashioned one here, calling for solidarity across > different types of work. But that old labor-movement ethic seems still > useful to me -- whereas the old "shame-on-the-women-who-dress-like-whores" > ethic seems singularly counterproductive.) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Poetics List (UPenn, UB) [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > Behalf Of Ruth Lepson > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 11:04 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory > > I guess I must be 200 years old--does nobody else agree that it's common > sense that prostitution is essentially different from other kinds of 'work'? > > > On 12/23/08 10:00 PM, "Adam Tobin" wrote: > >> Why is the capitalist exploitation of women at a brothel worse than, >> say, the capitalist exploitation of women at a Zipper Factory? It's >> just a different kind of labor, no? Given that some artists are >> seemingly comfortable with capitalism, why should they not acknowledge >> it in the name of their ventures? >> >> I understand, of course, that brothels have a particular history with >> a particular kind of violence attached to it, but so do factories. Do >> you direct the same righteous anger at Andy Warhol? >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Poetics List (UPenn, UB) [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] >> On Behalf Of Ruth Lepson >> Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 5:01 PM >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory >> >> brothels about as funny as slavery. >> which British feminist? >> >> >> On 12/21/08 1:44 PM, "steve russell" wrote: >> >>> somewhat related: William Styron, the way he waxes his libido in >>> "Sophie's Choice." >>> i'm still looking for the book of essays by the British Feminist who >>> enlightened me. >>> >>> --- On Sat, 12/20/08, Ruth Lepson wrote: >>> From: Ruth Lepson >>> Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory >>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>> Date: Saturday, December 20, 2008, 6:51 PM >>> >>> cooptation of poetry by capitalist objectification of women. not >>> funny. to use a brothel as a metaphor is disgusting. I remember when >>> Denise Levertov criticized a poet for using napalm as a metaphor for >>> personal pain, saying you don't know what it feels like & it's much >>> worse than the way you are characterizing it. >>> >>> >>> On 12/19/08 4:15 PM, "mIEKAL aND" >>> wrote: >>> >>>> New York poetry brothel tempts with verse >>>> >>>> Published: Friday December 19, 2008 >>>> >>>> >>> http://rawstory.com/news/afp/New_York_poetry_brothel_tempts_with_1219 >>> 2 >>> 008.html >>>> >>>> The prostitute whispers, wets her lips and prepares to bare... her >>>> heart with a poem. >>>> >>>> Welcome to New York's Poetry Brothel, where punters delve between >>>> the lines, not the sheets. >>>> >>>> At a weekend session in a Manhattan night club called the Zipper >>>> Factory the look was bona fide bordello. >>>> >>>> Literary ladies of the night flitted between intimate, candle-lit >>>> nooks, red lights and paintings of nudes. >>>> >>>> Some of the poetesses for sale sported retro-style garter belts and >>>> frilly knickers. One swanned about in a top hat and feather boa. >>>> >>>> But transactions at the Poetry Brothel are of the mind, not the >>>> body, and a moment with the catalogue, replete with pictures and >>>> whimsical descriptions, reveals what's on offer. >>>> >>>> Page four boasts The Professor, swearing to have heard "the wail of >>>> your striving heart drifting over the spires of skyscrapers." >>>> >>>> Harriett Van Os on page 10 promises to "tell you secrets she >>> doesn't >>>> know she knows." Cecille Ballroom tempts punters on page 13 claiming >>>> she can "coax your drum." >>>> >>>> Gigolo poets are available, not least Poetry Brothel co-founder >>>> Nicholas Adamski, who goes by the name Tennessee Pink and tops >>>> tempestuous, dark looks with an eye patch. >>>> >>>> "Poetry is what I love more than anything," cooed The Madame, >>> the >>>> sultry spirit behind the whole idea. >>>> >>>> The Madame -- real name Stephanie Berger -- came dressed for the >>>> part in low-cut dress, elbow-length black gloves and a peacock > headdress. >>>> >>>> "I'd rather be in the bedroom hearing poetry than listening to >>> some >>>> old man sitting on a chair on a stage," she explained by the light >>>> of a guttering candle. >>>> >>>> One-on-one encounters, for which "clients" pay three to five >>> dollars >>>> in addition to a 15 dollar entry fee and one free reading, took >>>> place upstairs. >>>> >>>> The "whores" read from their own material, much of which is free >>>> verse, making for intense, sometimes baffling performances. >>>> >>>> But for those needing a break, the Poetry Brothel laid on flamenco >>>> guitarists, a fortune-teller, a blackjack table and a bar >>>> specializing in port and whisky >>>> >>>> The young hedonists, most of them students, appear to have struck a >>>> surprisingly successful formula. >>>> >>>> "There just aren't that many poetry readings where poets show a >>> lot of >>>> cleavage," said The Professor, otherwise known as Jennifer Michael >>>> Hecht, aged 43 and a real life professor at Manhattan's New School. >>>> >>>> She teaches writing to many of the Brothel's regulars and is proud >>>> of the result. >>>> >>>> "It's kind of like the Weimar Republic without the Nazis. At two >>> in >>>> the morning you have 20- or 30-year-olds lying all over the place >>>> reading poetry," she said. >>>> >>>> "The custom is to read poetry alone, but we know that from Homer >>>> onward, people read it aloud and in groups." >>>> >>>> By midnight the Zipper Factory was packed and getting fuller -- and >>>> rowdier. >>>> >>>> The fortune teller, bedecked in red scarf and blue plumes, mumbled >>>> to someone about "choppy waters." The flamenco duo strummed. The >>> Madame, >>>> yet another glass of port in hand, introduced poet "whores" in a >>> voice >>>> suggesting she appreciated more than their literary charms. >>>> >>>> When Patricia Smith, a well-established poet, took the mike to >>>> declaim a long and rhythmical poem about love and making love, there >>>> were rock concert cheers from the crowd. >>>> >>>> "I always shudder when I pray," Smith intoned in a mesmerizing >>> voice, >>>> "so your name must be a prayer." >>>> >>>> Even for these bohemians there's no escaping the economic crisis >>>> sweeping the country. >>>> >>>> One of the poets, 22-year-old Nina Cheng, was about to start a job >>>> at Bear Stearns this year when the bank collapsed. Now she is >>>> writing a play about the experience and applying for a playwright's >>>> course at Yale. >>>> >>>> "I'd thought I'd do banking and get into the arts when I >>> retired -- >>>> not this early," said Cheng, known at the Brothel as The Opium Eater. >>>> >>>> Another poetry prostitute, 27-year-old Rachel Herman-Gross, aka >>>> Simone, worried that crashing stock markets will pull the rug from >>>> under the arts scene. "It's going to be a lot harder. A lot of >>> artists >>>> are sustained by grants from people with money." >>>> >>>> But one enthusiastic "client" said the ingenuity of the Poetry >>> Brothel >>>> proves there are ways to survive. >>>> >>>> "Money's always been scarce for artists and they're very >>> resourceful >>>> people," said Edmund Voyer, 54, a hefty man described as an >>>> "evangelist" on his business card and who came to the Zipper >>> Factory >>>> wearing a kilt. >>>> >>>> His drinking companion, Jennifer Hoa, 27, agreed money and art would >>>> always find ways to meet. >>>> >>>> "I've been a sell-out for years as a corporate lawyer, but I come >>>> here," she said. "I can't suppress my artistic side." >>>> >>>> The Madame promised that the Poetry Brothel welcomed all. >>>> >>>> "Many are young men with perhaps a secret interest in poems," >>> she >>>> murmured. "Just look at the menu. Get a recommendation. Or say you >>>> don't care. Say: 'I need poetry. I'm hungry.'" >>>> >>>> ================================== >>>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>> guidelines & >>>> sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>> >>> ================================== >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>> guidelines & sub/unsub info: >>> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ================================== >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>> guidelines & sub/unsub info: >>> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>> >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: >> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: >> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 23:01:56 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Eireene Nealand Subject: Russian (Literary) Agent MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline VGhpcyBtaWdodCBub3QgYmUgZW50aXJlbHkgcmVsZXZhbnQgdG8gKG5vbi1jb21tZXJjaWFsKSBw b2V0cyBhcyBvbgp0aGUgbGlzdCwgYnV0IEkgdGhvdWdodCB0aGF0IEknZCBwYXNzIHRoaXMgaW5m b3JtYXRpb24gb24gZm9yIHlvdSBhbGwKdG8gcGFzcyBvbi4gSXQncyBmcm9tIGEgZnJpZW5kIHdo byBpcyBzdGFydGluZyBhIGxpdGVyYXJ5IGFnZW5jeSBpbgpSdXNzaWEuIChBcyBvdGhlciBjb3Vu dHJpZXMgY29tZSB0byBoYXZlIG1vcmUgbW9uZXkgdGhhbiBVUywgcGVyaGFwcwppdCdzIGEgZ29v ZCB0aW1lIHRvIHN0YXJ0IHRha2luZyB0aGVzZSB3b3JsZCByaWdodHMgc2VyaW91c2x5KS4KClRo ZXJlJ3MgYSBsaXN0IG9mIHR5cGVzIG9mIHdyaXRlcnMgdGhhdCB0aGUgY29tcGFueSB0aG91Z2h0 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========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 06:05:09 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Troy Camplin Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii There are a lot of degrading jobs, but that doesn't mean we should make them illegal. Which was really my only point. And different people consider different work degrading. One person may love being a security guard, while another will find it degrading and depressing. Want to work in a sewer? In a mine? My guess is that you and many others here would find the jobs on the TV show "Dirty Jobs" to be too degrading. The world is far, far, far more complex than you seem to think it is. Thus, I laugh when I get accused by you of reductionism. You, who reduce everything to racism, sexism, etc. and thus reduce everything to race, sex, etc. Your romanticized notions about human beings in general -- that we can or even should treat every person in their full "subjectivity" -- would be laughable if it weren't so dangerous. The fact is that we treat everyone with a mixture of objectivity and subjectivity. We can't know each person personally -- that is utterly impossible. And you don't want to do so, either. You don't care one iota about the personal life of the plumber you call to fix your toilet. He's a toilet-fixing machine for all you care. Just pay him what he asks, and get him out of there as soon as possible. I accuse you or puritanism precisely because it is precisely that attitude toward sex that is behind your objections to prostitution being made illegal, and nothing more. You can dress it up any way you like to convince yourself otherwise, but it's the retention of this strand of Christian thinking and morality in your thinking that is behind this. You're mad only because I have accused you of something you have accused numerous others of. Finally, you are assuming that just because I think prostitution should be legalized and brought above boards to that prostitutes can in fact be treated better than they are under the system you prefer that I "approve" of it. Those are two different things. My point was the "different kinds of muscles" was to point out the absurdity of objecting to it as work per se. What you chose to interpret as reductionism was merely a satyrical point -- but then, I've already observed that you're humorless. Troy Camplin ________________________________ From: amy king To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Thursday, January 8, 2009 9:42:59 PM Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory Way to try to flip the script, Troy. If you call me a Puritan (your usual name-calling and labeling tactic), maybe no one will notice that you are the one with the "black and white approach." The "Puritan" accusation remains the old stand-by, an all too common justification against anyone critical of a system that certainly capitalizes on the disenfranchisement (and abuse) of women, no matter how many ways you try to spin what happens in a sex-(and-often-worse)-for-cash exchange. Prostitution is just "a different set of muscles" is as reductive a defense as you can get. And trying to make "prostitution" synonymous with "sexual expression" is yet another way to render invisible the harshness that real prostitutes --not romanticized made-for-TV dominatrices-- contend with daily to survive. It would be very convenient for your fantastical rationale if it were only my "attitude toward it that makes it the degrading job it is." Sometimes women, and some men, risk speaking out against the atrocities that prostitutes have to face and are often accused of such nonsense as "degrading the job" in an effort to shut us up. The risk for those of us who are critical of such an "industry" is that each time we speak, several people, often men, will then accuse of us of all sorts of "Puritanical" reactions, and then we get to hear the justifications of why prostitution is really great and just "sexual expression." The majority of prostitutes in the world are women, and the majority of them enter the "trade" because of acute poverty, prior emotional/sexual abuse, or have been kidnapped. In the latter case, the girls and women have been trafficked and are slaves, not workers even in the remotest sense. Only a very small percentage of prostitutes will say they do what they do for "sexual expression", and often prostitutes turn to drug use just to get through the "work". So much for "expression." Rare is the glamorous house run and protected by a madame who pays her luxuriating prostitutes well. Much, much more common is the work demanded by a pimp who puts his "workers" at risk by making johns pay more so that the "workers" will be forced to go bareback or worse. Even legalized, I doubt the hierarchy of disbursement in such an industry would change; the "business", run by men, would get the most money, starting with whomever owned the "business" and on down to the bouncers, while the prostitutes would continue to receive a very small percentage, despite the fact that it is their bodies that are put at risk, that perform, and receive, all of the "work," and the ensuing psychological and physical harm that we would like to tiptoe around and pretend doesn't happen since one "chooses" to enter such an exchange. The actual work of handing your body over to a stranger for some cash, paradoxically so that your body can continue to survive, is what makes the "job" degrading, Troy. Call me a Puritan and any other names you like, call it "sexual expression" when the livery drivers in my neighborhood pay poor women twenty bucks for a blow job between cars or in the front seat, but please try to imagine the details of the work you are trying to romanticize before you reduce what these women do to "sexual expression" and "workers" just using a "different set of muscles". Amy _______ Recent work http://www.writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/King.html Amy's Alias http://amyking.org/ --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Troy Camplin wrote: From: Troy Camplin Subject: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 8:44 PM Let them. Ever heard of male prostitutes? Giggalos? I don't know what this had to do with reductivism. I would argue that the world is far more complex than the simple black and white approach you are taking to prostitution. It is the institution it is because it is illegal and stigmatized. You it is in fact your attitude toward it that makes it the degrading job it is. You are the one rejecting this or that sexual expression as wrong or degrading or something that should be made illegal. It your puritanism that's wrong-headed in my opinion, and the inability to think outside of that puritanistic ethic. Troy Camplin ________________________________ From: amy king To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Thursday, January 8, 2009 5:03:29 PM Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory This is so wrong-headed, Troy, that I don't even know where to begin. I'm not talking about the debate over legalizing prostitution; I'm referring to your reductive, ridiculously simplistic rationale: Prostitution is just anatomy, Troy? That's right in line with your reasoning that you can't possibly be racist because you're married to a minority. Some news, Troy: you can be racist even if you are a minority! Ever heard of a self-loathing [insert your label here]? I can even be homophobic while being a lesbian! Such a reductionist claim is the primary pillar used to defend prostitution by the men who use and abuse the women stuck in that system, happily ignoring the psychological damage they pay to "work" these women -- "it's just anatomy" allows these guys to revel in the role they play in maintaining and enjoying such a crappy system that preys upon the systematic abuse of girls and women as well as economically-deprived women, who end up stuck using "a different set of muscles" to sustain themselves and likely their children whose father is nowhere to be seen, except possibly in one of those lines now asking the government to bail himself and his favorite industry out (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/07/porn-bailout-larry-flynt_n_155878.html ). Let those fathers and men turn to prostitution, then! It's just anatomy, after all. Amy _______ Recent work http://www.writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/King.html Amy's Alias http://amyking.org/ --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Troy Camplin wrote: From: Troy Camplin Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 12:26 AM I think prostitution should be legalized precisely because of all the problems that come about precisely because it's not legal and because in a free market, two free adults should be able to enter into any sort of relationship they desire, whether that be employee-employer, prostitute-client, artist-patron, or any other sort of relationship. Prostitution is no different than a woman who has sex with a guy she has no intention of seeing again after accepting an expensive dinner and some drinks from him -- only she gets the money directly, and can use the money (hopefully) more wisely. So you think that it's a different kind of work only because genitalia are involved? It's labor using a different set of muscles is all. Troy Camplin ________________________________ From: Ruth Lepson To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2009 10:04:06 PM Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory I guess I must be 200 years old--does nobody else agree that it's common sense that prostitution is essentially different from other kinds of 'work'? On 12/23/08 10:00 PM, "Adam Tobin" wrote: > Why is the capitalist exploitation of women at a brothel worse than, say, > the capitalist exploitation of women at a Zipper Factory? It's just a > different kind of labor, no? Given that some artists are seemingly > comfortable with capitalism, why should they not acknowledge it in the name > of their ventures? > > I understand, of course, that brothels have a particular history with a > particular kind of violence attached to it, but so do factories. Do you > direct the same righteous anger at Andy Warhol? > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Poetics List (UPenn, UB) [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > Behalf Of Ruth Lepson > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 5:01 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory > > brothels about as funny as slavery. > which British feminist? > > > On 12/21/08 1:44 PM, "steve russell" wrote: > >> somewhat related: William Styron, the way he waxes his libido in >> "Sophie's Choice." >> i'm still looking for the book of essays by the British Feminist who >> enlightened me. >> >> --- On Sat, 12/20/08, Ruth Lepson wrote: >> From: Ruth Lepson >> Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Date: Saturday, December 20, 2008, 6:51 PM >> >> cooptation of poetry by capitalist objectification of women. not >> funny. to use a brothel as a metaphor is disgusting. I remember when >> Denise Levertov criticized a poet for using napalm as a metaphor for >> personal pain, saying you don't know what it feels like & it's much >> worse than the way you are characterizing it. >> >> >> On 12/19/08 4:15 PM, "mIEKAL aND" >> wrote: >> >>> New York poetry brothel tempts with verse >>> >>> Published: Friday December 19, 2008 >>> >>> >> http://rawstory.com/news/afp/New_York_poetry_brothel_tempts_with_12192 >> 008.html >>> >>> The prostitute whispers, wets her lips and prepares to bare... her >>> heart with a poem. >>> >>> Welcome to New York's Poetry Brothel, where punters delve between the >>> lines, not the sheets. >>> >>> At a weekend session in a Manhattan night club called the Zipper >>> Factory the look was bona fide bordello. >>> >>> Literary ladies of the night flitted between intimate, candle-lit >>> nooks, red lights and paintings of nudes. >>> >>> Some of the poetesses for sale sported retro-style garter belts and >>> frilly knickers. One swanned about in a top hat and feather boa. >>> >>> But transactions at the Poetry Brothel are of the mind, not the body, >>> and a moment with the catalogue, replete with pictures and whimsical >>> descriptions, reveals what's on offer. >>> >>> Page four boasts The Professor, swearing to have heard "the wail of >>> your striving heart drifting over the spires of skyscrapers." >>> >>> Harriett Van Os on page 10 promises to "tell you secrets she >> doesn't >>> know she knows." Cecille Ballroom tempts punters on page 13 claiming >>> she can "coax your drum." >>> >>> Gigolo poets are available, not least Poetry Brothel co-founder >>> Nicholas Adamski, who goes by the name Tennessee Pink and tops >>> tempestuous, dark looks with an eye patch. >>> >>> "Poetry is what I love more than anything," cooed The Madame, >> the >>> sultry spirit behind the whole idea. >>> >>> The Madame -- real name Stephanie Berger -- came dressed for the part >>> in low-cut dress, elbow-length black gloves and a peacock headdress. >>> >>> "I'd rather be in the bedroom hearing poetry than listening to >> some >>> old man sitting on a chair on a stage," she explained by the light of >>> a guttering candle. >>> >>> One-on-one encounters, for which "clients" pay three to five >> dollars >>> in addition to a 15 dollar entry fee and one free reading, took place >>> upstairs. >>> >>> The "whores" read from their own material, much of which is free >>> verse, making for intense, sometimes baffling performances. >>> >>> But for those needing a break, the Poetry Brothel laid on flamenco >>> guitarists, a fortune-teller, a blackjack table and a bar >>> specializing in port and whisky >>> >>> The young hedonists, most of them students, appear to have struck a >>> surprisingly successful formula. >>> >>> "There just aren't that many poetry readings where poets show a >> lot of >>> cleavage," said The Professor, otherwise known as Jennifer Michael >>> Hecht, aged 43 and a real life professor at Manhattan's New School. >>> >>> She teaches writing to many of the Brothel's regulars and is proud of >>> the result. >>> >>> "It's kind of like the Weimar Republic without the Nazis. At two >> in >>> the morning you have 20- or 30-year-olds lying all over the place >>> reading poetry," she said. >>> >>> "The custom is to read poetry alone, but we know that from Homer >>> onward, people read it aloud and in groups." >>> >>> By midnight the Zipper Factory was packed and getting fuller -- and >>> rowdier. >>> >>> The fortune teller, bedecked in red scarf and blue plumes, mumbled to >>> someone about "choppy waters." The flamenco duo strummed. The >> Madame, >>> yet another glass of port in hand, introduced poet "whores" in a >> voice >>> suggesting she appreciated more than their literary charms. >>> >>> When Patricia Smith, a well-established poet, took the mike to >>> declaim a long and rhythmical poem about love and making love, there >>> were rock concert cheers from the crowd. >>> >>> "I always shudder when I pray," Smith intoned in a mesmerizing >> voice, >>> "so your name must be a prayer." >>> >>> Even for these bohemians there's no escaping the economic crisis >>> sweeping the country. >>> >>> One of the poets, 22-year-old Nina Cheng, was about to start a job at >>> Bear Stearns this year when the bank collapsed. Now she is writing a >>> play about the experience and applying for a playwright's course at >>> Yale. >>> >>> "I'd thought I'd do banking and get into the arts when I >> retired -- >>> not this early," said Cheng, known at the Brothel as The Opium Eater. >>> >>> Another poetry prostitute, 27-year-old Rachel Herman-Gross, aka >>> Simone, worried that crashing stock markets will pull the rug from >>> under the arts scene. "It's going to be a lot harder. A lot of >> artists >>> are sustained by grants from people with money." >>> >>> But one enthusiastic "client" said the ingenuity of the Poetry >> Brothel >>> proves there are ways to survive. >>> >>> "Money's always been scarce for artists and they're very >> resourceful >>> people," said Edmund Voyer, 54, a hefty man described as an >>> "evangelist" on his business card and who came to the Zipper >> Factory >>> wearing a kilt. >>> >>> His drinking companion, Jennifer Hoa, 27, agreed money and art would >>> always find ways to meet. >>> >>> "I've been a sell-out for years as a corporate lawyer, but I come >>> here," she said. "I can't suppress my artistic side." >>> >>> The Madame promised that the Poetry Brothel welcomed all. >>> >>> "Many are young men with perhaps a secret interest in poems," >> she >>> murmured. "Just look at the menu. Get a recommendation. Or say you >>> don't care. Say: 'I need poetry. I'm hungry.'" >>> >>> ================================== >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & >>> sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: >> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> >> >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: >> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 06:15:54 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Troy Camplin Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Egalitarianism and objectification of women are (thankfully) two different things. I am for equality, but egalitarianism is one of the greatest evils, one of the most hideously destructive ideologies that ever developed. If you like mass slaughter, there is no quicker path to it than through egalitarianism (the French Revolution, the Soviet Union, the Eastern Bloc, Cambodia, Cuba, China during the Cultural Revolution). And, besides, you're not actually in favor of de-objectifying people. You don't actually want to get to know your plumber when you call him or her. You want them to do the job you called them to do and get out of your house. They might as well be a robot as far as you or anyone else who calls them is concerned, a few formal niceties aside. And I don't see how legalizing prostitution and getting is above board so that it can be regulated in any way objectifies the women who are prostitutes. It seems to me that it actually makes their lives much better than it is. It makes it increasingly likely that someone in their lives is not going to objectify them. The vast majority of problems with prostitution come about precisely because it is illegal -- much like the vast majority of problems surrounding drugs comes about because they are illegal (we learned the lesson with alcohol, but still haven't learned it with drugs). Troy Camplin ________________________________ From: Ruth Lepson To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Thursday, January 8, 2009 9:12:23 PM Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory this is getting depressing. why don't you try being a prostitute for a week and see how you feel about it. why is it puritanism to imagine an egalitarian world where women are not objectified? On 1/8/09 8:44 PM, "Troy Camplin" wrote: > Let them. Ever heard of male prostitutes? Giggalos? I don't know what this had > to do with reductivism. I would argue that the world is far more complex than > the simple black and white approach you are taking to prostitution. It is the > institution it is because it is illegal and stigmatized. You it is in fact > your attitude toward it that makes it the degrading job it is. You are the one > rejecting this or that sexual expression as wrong or degrading or something > that should be made illegal. It your puritanism that's wrong-headed in my > opinion, and the inability to think outside of that puritanistic ethic. > > > Troy Camplin > > > > ________________________________ > From: amy king > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Thursday, January 8, 2009 5:03:29 PM > Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory > > This is so wrong-headed, Troy, that I don't even know where to begin. I'm not > talking about the debate over legalizing prostitution; I'm referring to your > reductive, ridiculously simplistic rationale: Prostitution is just anatomy, > Troy? That's right in line with your reasoning that you can't possibly be > racist because you're married to a minority. Some news, Troy: you can be > racist even if you are a minority! Ever heard of a self-loathing [insert your > label here]? I can even be homophobic while being a lesbian! Such a > reductionist claim is the primary pillar used to defend prostitution by the > men who use and abuse the women stuck in that system, happily ignoring the > psychological damage they pay to "work" these women -- "it's just anatomy" > allows these guys to revel in the role they play in maintaining and enjoying > such a crappy system that preys upon the systematic abuse of girls and women > as well as economically-deprived women, who > end up stuck using "a different set of muscles" to sustain themselves and > likely their children whose father is nowhere to be seen, except possibly in > one of those lines now asking the government to bail himself and his favorite > industry out > (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/07/porn-bailout-larry-flynt_n_155878.ht > ml ). Let those fathers and men turn to prostitution, then! It's just > anatomy, after all. > > Amy > > > _______ > > > > > > Recent work > > http://www.writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/King.html > > > > Amy's Alias > > http://amyking.org/ > > --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Troy Camplin wrote: > From: Troy Camplin > Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 12:26 AM > > I think prostitution should be legalized precisely because of all the problems > that come about precisely because it's not legal and because in a free > market, two free adults should be able to enter into any sort of relationship > they desire, whether that be employee-employer, prostitute-client, > artist-patron, or any other sort of relationship. Prostitution is no different > than a woman who has sex with a guy she has no intention of seeing again after > accepting an expensive dinner and some drinks from him -- only she gets the > money directly, and can use the money (hopefully) more wisely. So you think > that > it's a different kind of work only because genitalia are involved? It's > labor using a different set of muscles is all. > > Troy Camplin > > > > ________________________________ > From: Ruth Lepson > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2009 10:04:06 PM > Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory > > I guess I must be 200 years old--does nobody else agree that it's common > sense that prostitution is essentially different from other kinds of > 'work'? > > > On 12/23/08 10:00 PM, "Adam Tobin" > wrote: > >> Why is the capitalist exploitation of women at a brothel worse than, say, >> the capitalist exploitation of women at a Zipper Factory? It's just a >> different kind of labor, no? Given that some artists are seemingly >> comfortable with capitalism, why should they not acknowledge it in the > name >> of their ventures? >> >> I understand, of course, that brothels have a particular history with a >> particular kind of violence attached to it, but so do factories. Do you >> direct the same righteous anger at Andy Warhol? >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Poetics List (UPenn, UB) [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On >> Behalf Of Ruth Lepson >> Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 5:01 PM >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory >> >> brothels about as funny as slavery. >> which British feminist? >> >> >> On 12/21/08 1:44 PM, "steve russell" > wrote: >> >>> somewhat related: William Styron, the way he waxes his libido in >>> "Sophie's Choice." >>> i'm still looking for the book of essays by the British Feminist > who >>> enlightened me. >>> >>> --- On Sat, 12/20/08, Ruth Lepson > wrote: >>> From: Ruth Lepson >>> Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory >>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>> Date: Saturday, December 20, 2008, 6:51 PM >>> >>> cooptation of poetry by capitalist objectification of women. not >>> funny. to use a brothel as a metaphor is disgusting. I remember when >>> Denise Levertov criticized a poet for using napalm as a metaphor for >>> personal pain, saying you don't know what it feels like & > it's much >>> worse than the way you are characterizing it. >>> >>> >>> On 12/19/08 4:15 PM, "mIEKAL aND" > >>> wrote: >>> >>>> New York poetry brothel tempts with verse >>>> >>>> Published: Friday December 19, 2008 >>>> >>>> >>> http://rawstory.com/news/afp/New_York_poetry_brothel_tempts_with_12192 >>> 008.html >>>> >>>> The prostitute whispers, wets her lips and prepares to bare... her >>>> heart with a poem. >>>> >>>> Welcome to New York's Poetry Brothel, where punters delve > between the >>>> lines, not the sheets. >>>> >>>> At a weekend session in a Manhattan night club called the Zipper >>>> Factory the look was bona fide bordello. >>>> >>>> Literary ladies of the night flitted between intimate, candle-lit >>>> nooks, red lights and paintings of nudes. >>>> >>>> Some of the poetesses for sale sported retro-style garter belts > and >>>> frilly knickers. One swanned about in a top hat and feather boa. >>>> >>>> But transactions at the Poetry Brothel are of the mind, not the > body, >>>> and a moment with the catalogue, replete with pictures and > whimsical >>>> descriptions, reveals what's on offer. >>>> >>>> Page four boasts The Professor, swearing to have heard "the > wail of >>>> your striving heart drifting over the spires of skyscrapers." >>>> >>>> Harriett Van Os on page 10 promises to "tell you secrets she >>> doesn't >>>> know she knows." Cecille Ballroom tempts punters on page 13 > claiming >>>> she can "coax your drum." >>>> >>>> Gigolo poets are available, not least Poetry Brothel co-founder >>>> Nicholas Adamski, who goes by the name Tennessee Pink and tops >>>> tempestuous, dark looks with an eye patch. >>>> >>>> "Poetry is what I love more than anything," cooed The > Madame, >>> the >>>> sultry spirit behind the whole idea. >>>> >>>> The Madame -- real name Stephanie Berger -- came dressed for the > part >>>> in low-cut dress, elbow-length black gloves and a peacock > headdress. >>>> >>>> "I'd rather be in the bedroom hearing poetry than > listening to >>> some >>>> old man sitting on a chair on a stage," she explained by the > light of >>>> a guttering candle. >>>> >>>> One-on-one encounters, for which "clients" pay three to > five >>> dollars >>>> in addition to a 15 dollar entry fee and one free reading, took > place >>>> upstairs. >>>> >>>> The "whores" read from their own material, much of which > is free >>>> verse, making for intense, sometimes baffling performances. >>>> >>>> But for those needing a break, the Poetry Brothel laid on flamenco >>>> guitarists, a fortune-teller, a blackjack table and a bar >>>> specializing in port and whisky >>>> >>>> The young hedonists, most of them students, appear to have struck > a >>>> surprisingly successful formula. >>>> >>>> "There just aren't that many poetry readings where poets > show a >>> lot of >>>> cleavage," said The Professor, otherwise known as Jennifer > Michael >>>> Hecht, aged 43 and a real life professor at Manhattan's New > School. >>>> >>>> She teaches writing to many of the Brothel's regulars and is > proud of >>>> the result. >>>> >>>> "It's kind of like the Weimar Republic without the Nazis. > At two >>> in >>>> the morning you have 20- or 30-year-olds lying all over the place >>>> reading poetry," she said. >>>> >>>> "The custom is to read poetry alone, but we know that from > Homer >>>> onward, people read it aloud and in groups." >>>> >>>> By midnight the Zipper Factory was packed and getting fuller -- > and >>>> rowdier. >>>> >>>> The fortune teller, bedecked in red scarf and blue plumes, mumbled > to >>>> someone about "choppy waters." The flamenco duo > strummed. The >>> Madame, >>>> yet another glass of port in hand, introduced poet > "whores" in a >>> voice >>>> suggesting she appreciated more than their literary charms. >>>> >>>> When Patricia Smith, a well-established poet, took the mike to >>>> declaim a long and rhythmical poem about love and making love, > there >>>> were rock concert cheers from the crowd. >>>> >>>> "I always shudder when I pray," Smith intoned in a > mesmerizing >>> voice, >>>> "so your name must be a prayer." >>>> >>>> Even for these bohemians there's no escaping the economic > crisis >>>> sweeping the country. >>>> >>>> One of the poets, 22-year-old Nina Cheng, was about to start a job > at >>>> Bear Stearns this year when the bank collapsed. Now she is writing > a >>>> play about the experience and applying for a playwright's > course at >>>> Yale. >>>> >>>> "I'd thought I'd do banking and get into the arts > when I >>> retired -- >>>> not this early," said Cheng, known at the Brothel as The > Opium Eater. >>>> >>>> Another poetry prostitute, 27-year-old Rachel Herman-Gross, aka >>>> Simone, worried that crashing stock markets will pull the rug from >>>> under the arts scene. "It's going to be a lot harder. A > lot of >>> artists >>>> are sustained by grants from people with money." >>>> >>>> But one enthusiastic "client" said the ingenuity of the > Poetry >>> Brothel >>>> proves there are ways to survive. >>>> >>>> "Money's always been scarce for artists and they're > very >>> resourceful >>>> people," said Edmund Voyer, 54, a hefty man described as an >>>> "evangelist" on his business card and who came to the > Zipper >>> Factory >>>> wearing a kilt. >>>> >>>> His drinking companion, Jennifer Hoa, 27, agreed money and art > would >>>> always find ways to meet. >>>> >>>> "I've been a sell-out for years as a corporate lawyer, > but I come >>>> here," she said. "I can't suppress my artistic > side." >>>> >>>> The Madame promised that the Poetry Brothel welcomed all. >>>> >>>> "Many are young men with perhaps a secret interest in > poems," >>> she >>>> murmured. "Just look at the menu. Get a recommendation. Or > say you >>>> don't care. Say: 'I need poetry. I'm > hungry.'" >>>> >>>> ================================== >>>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. > Check >>> guidelines & >>>> sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>> >>> ================================== >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>> guidelines & sub/unsub info: >>> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ================================== >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>> guidelines & sub/unsub info: >>> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>> >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines >> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & >> sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 09:24:45 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Troy Camplin Subject: On Health, Holiness, Beauty and Poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In English the words holy, whole, hale, and health are etymologically conne= cted =96 Old English halig, hal, and h=E6lth, respectively, which are all r= elated to hal. Thus are they conceptually connected. To see the world as ho= ly is to see the world as whole =96 it is to have the world =93appear infin= ite and holy, whereas it now appears finite and corrupt=94 (William Blake, = =93The Marriage of Heaven and Hell=94). The word holistic comes from the Gr= eek holos, whole. Thus the holy is holistic =96 God is holy because He enco= mpasses all. Perhaps one could even say that we can recognize the divine on= ly when we come to see the world as a whole, when we see the universe as un= iversal. When we can come=0A=0ATo see a World in a grain of sand,=0AAnd a H= eaven in a wild flower,=0AHold Infinity in the palm of your hand,=0AAnd Ete= rnity in an hour. (William Blake, =93Auguries of Innocence=94)=0A=0AHealth = and hale is the same. To have health is to have wholeness. To be hale is to= be healthy =96 whole and complete. To make healthy is to make whole again.= One is healed through medication. But ideally, one would rather maintain o= ne=92s health than have to withstand the ravages of medication (pharmaceuti= cal comes from the Greek pharmakon, which means both poison and medicine = =96 as it does today), though medication is necessary to stave off disease.= This is the purpose of Plato=92s Pharmakon, to stave off disease. For dise= ase is the opposite of health.=0A=0AThe Modern Era, which we are still in, = though we may be at the end of it, began when Descartes split man in two = =96 body and soul. It was a necessary division for the development of moder= n science (which Descartes all but admits to =96 the division is so the Chu= rch will tend to the soul, while the body is left alone, to be tended to by= scientists such as Descartes), but it was certainly an unholy division (as= all divisions are, by definition). Kant deepened this division. Hegel trie= d to mend it through philosophical synthesis. Marx tried to mend it by reco= mmending the overthrow of half of the world =96 the world would then be who= lly Proletarian. Nietzsche responded to Hegel by dividing the world up even= more =96 for him, humans are not divided into body and soul, but are inste= ad a series of masks. With postmodernism, the division is complete: men and= women, multiculturalism, radical Cartesian individualism divide us up more= and more. Any universality is denied. A necessary development =96 and not without its truth (I am aware = of the irony of using the word truth, which comes from the Old English treo= wth, related to the word troth, from which we get the word betrothed, to sp= eak of an idea that is more interested in divorce than betrothal). But it i= s precisely as unholy as one can get.=0A=0AThe deep divisions fostered by p= ostmodernism came about because of a view that grand narratives, attempts t= o universalize, and seeing the world as holistic created the problems of th= e 20th Century. The Marxist grand narrative gave us the gulag of the Soviet= Union, the massacres of the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia, and any number of oth= er slaughters done by governments who had embraced Marxist philosophy. We l= ooked back on history after the Holocaust, saw the grand narrative of Chris= tianity had in the past itself promoted the killing of Jews =96 particularl= y in the Inquisition =96 and concluded that it too was dangerous. One could= also mention The Terror of the French Revolution. What did Marxism, Mediev= al Christianity, and the French Revolution have in common? One thing was th= at they were all grand narratives. Thus, the logic goes, it must be grand n= arratives which are bad. And what do grand narratives do? They see the worl= d as a whole, which must be encompassed by their ideology. To make the world a whole, it must be place= d under their one ideology. Thus, holistic world views were seen as bad =96= thus were they, and holiness, rejected. The path to Heaven =96 whether tha= t heaven was celestial or earthly =96 seemed to lead us straight into Hell.= Perhaps in part the rejection of holding a holistic view came about becaus= e it is related to the holy, and the holy has been rejected. To the extent = that wisdom is the ability to see the unity of the world =96 meaning wisdom= is the ability to see the world as holy =96 wisdom was also rejected as im= possible, perhaps even undesirable.=0A=0AThe error in this way of thinking = derives from the error made in seeing Communism, Christianity, or the ideal= s of the French Revolution as interested in seeing the world as holistic. N= one of them saw the world as holistic, as holy =96 they instead wanted to m= ake the world whole, under their particular umbrellas. They too fostered di= visions =96 there were enemies who had to be either converted or killed in = order that the world could be made holy. =93For the cherub with his flaming= sword is hereby commanded to leave his guard at tree of life; and when he = does, the whole creation will be consumed and appear infinite and holy=94 (= Blake =93The Marriage of Heaven and Hell=94). Now Blake here uses the word = =93appear.=94 None of them saw the world as holy. It had to be made so =96 = through conflagration, if necessary. Postmodern thought, by dividing the wo= rld even more, does not help us to see the world as holy =96 quite the cont= rary. However, by insisting on equality among the various parts =96 among individuals, among cultures, am= ong religions, among any number of groups of individuals =96 postmodern tho= ught may ironically make it now possible to see the world as being, rather = than needing to become, holy.=0A=0AIt may seem ironic to suggest that only = by reaching the most severe of divisions =96 seeing the world as eminently = unholy =96 that we can finally come to see that the world is in fact holy, = but I am not being ironic. To see the world as holy is not to see everythin= g in the world as equal in an egalitarian sense. There are hierarchies. To = see the world as holy is to understand how everything fits into the world a= s a whole. It is to see the world as an immense organism, and to care for i= ts health. An organism is made up of systems, organs, tissues, cells, organ= elles, and various biochemicals. For one group to want to envelop the entir= e world in one way of thinking, believing, viewing the world, would be the = same as one cell wanting to envelop the entire organism in that one type of= cell. We have a word for cells that want to do that: cancer. The postmoder= nists have mistaken viewing the actions of cancerous cells for seeing the w= hole organism. Cancer must be fought, not mistaken for the animal it is in. That is the only way one = can have a healthy organism =96 and it is the only way to have a holy world= .. Like a healthy organism, a holy world is complex. Like a healthy organism= , a holy world has smoothly working parts in communication with each other = through clear rules that proscribe what each part needs to do for the whole= to work well. Like a healthy organism, this cannot come from any centraliz= ed authority =96 there is no one control cell in the body, and the brain mu= st have the lungs just as much as the lungs must have the brain. A holy wor= ld is like a healthy organism.=0A=0AIn Negative Theology, one comes to know= what God is by figuring out what God is not. Aristotle says that if you ar= e not sure if something is good, try to figure out what is bad, and you can= then deduce that what is good is its opposite. =0AThe following are unheal= thy:=0A=0A1. Overeating, including eating a high percentage of foods with l= ow nutritional value, while remaining inactive (not exercising)=0A2. Either= stagnation or change without continuity =96 both create instability=0A3. S= tress and anxiety =96 which comes about from not realizing that there are p= arts of the world that one cannot control, and can lead to anger at those v= ery things=0A4. Hatred =96 aside from raising the blood pressure, it can ca= use one to act in ways that would be unhealthy for the object of our hatred= =0A5. Cancer =96 already discussed=0A6. Excess =96 including the excess of = moderation=0A7. Shackles =96 prevents sufficient movement, equating to lack= of exercise=0A8. Pollution =96 it can lead to any number of diseases=0A9. = An overly-clean environment =96 it can prevent our immune systems from deve= loping properly, making us more susceptible to diseases, especially autoimm= une diseases=0A10. Suicide =96 inherently and obviously unhealthy=0A11. Iso= lation =96 loneliness can lead to depression, which depresses the immune sy= stem =0A12. Ignorance =96 either of the world or of oneself, as one cannot = maintain one=92s health if one is ignorant of what can harm it or improve i= t=0A=0AThis leads one to posit the following are healthy:=0A=0A1. Exercise,= with a diet proper to the amount of exercise and of high nutritional value= =0A2. Change with continuity=0A3. Realizing that there are parts of the wor= ld that one cannot control, thus reducing stress and anxiety=0A4. Love=0A5.= Keeping the body in hierarchical harmony=0A6. Moderation in everything, in= cluding moderation =96 remembering that moderation is an extreme in the sam= e way that life is an extreme state of organic chemistry=0A7. Freedom =96 r= emembering that freedom does not equate to a lack of rules, but is rather w= hat is achieved through playing by the best rules=0A8. Cleanliness (which, = as the saying goes, is next to Godliness, meaning it is holy)=0A9. A non-sa= nitized world =96 a world without dirt is a world that makes unhealthy orga= nisms=0A10. Love of one=92s own life=0A11. Friends=0A12. Knowledge =96 incl= uding self-knowledge=0A=0AOne can make a similar list of what makes for a h= ealthy mind:=0A1. Taking in healthy information =96 good art, music, litera= ture, philosophy, the sciences, etc. =96 with sufficient exercise of the mi= nd through thought, discussion, and writing=0A2. Change with continuity=0A3= .. Realizing that there are parts of the world that one cannot control, thus= reducing stress and anxiety, which can negatively affect the mind as well = as the body=0A4. Love=0A5. Having a variety of inputs =96 obsession with on= e thing alone is a kind of mental cancer=0A6. Moderation in everything, inc= luding moderation =96 moderation of reading, of rigorous thought, sexual th= oughts, work, play, physical activity, etc.=0A7. Freedom of thought =96 we = must not think in shackles, but with flexible rules=0A8. Cleanliness of tho= ught =96 this does not necessarily mean what it has traditionally meant in = the West, though it can certainly contain some elements; thinking about sex= is in and of itself not unclean=0A9. Realization that we do not and cannot= live in a sanitized world, as that stops thought and creativity=0A10. Love= of thinking=0A11. Friends =96 as Aristotle says in Rhetoric, =93a wide cir= cle of friends, a virtuous circle of friends,=94 and, I would add, a mental= ly stimulating circle of friends=0A12. Knowledge =96 including self knowled= ge =96 with the goal of wisdom=0A=0AA holy world is one that parallels the = healthy body and the healthy mind, and will have the above qualities, inclu= ding moderation in everything, including moderation (i.e., it will be a jus= t world), freedom (this is freedom from, not freedom to), love, friendship,= and beauty. A holy world is a beautiful world, both having variety in unit= y, unity in variety, complexity, and fluid hierarchy that is self-similar r= egardless of scale. All of the parts, living in love and friendship (which = does not exclude healthy competition, such as we find in sports and in free= trade), living in a complex dynamic with each other, living as individuals= in various communities, many of which overlap and are nested within other = communities, must be self-similar to have a holy world.=0A=0AIn Greek, to k= alon means the beautiful, but it can also mean the honorable or the noble = =96 and kala can mean either things that are beautiful or things that are m= orally good. In the Rhetoric, Aristotle says that =93Now kalon describes wh= atever, through being chosen for itself, is praiseworthy or whatever, throu= gh being good [agathon], is pleasant because it is good [agathon]. If this,= then, is the kalon, then virtue is necessarily kalon; for it is praisewort= hy because of being good [agathon]=94 (79). Elaine Scarry points out that i= n English too, there is a connection between beauty and the good (the just)= , when she points out that to say that something is fair is to say that it = is either beautiful or that it is just. In Greek and in English, the beauti= ful and the good are connected. If a holy world is a beautiful world, it is= a good and just world as well. As Heraclitus said, =93For god all things a= re fair and just, but men have taken some things as unjust, others as just=94 (LXVIII). The key here is that we see the world = itself as just =96 not the actions of each and every individual. The world = is itself justified and cannot itself be unjust. This is consistent with th= e teachings of any religion that sees the world as having been created by G= od or the gods =96 how could a fair and just god create a world that was it= self unjust? And if theistic religions are rejected, how can the world itse= lf possibly be unjust? To say it is unjust is to give it anthropomorphic qu= alities. It is people who have taken some things as being just, others as u= njust =96 but the world itself is self-justified. Those who do not see the = world as just are those who do not see the world as holy =96 often they are= the same people who think the only way the world can be justified is if th= e world is made holy through the transformation of it into a perfect mirror= of themselves. But we have seen that a world made up of only one world view is a cancerous world =96 and the world, as a cancerous organism= , will die. An organism cannot consist of one type of cell =96 that is the = unhealthiest of organisms. And a world having only one world view is the un= healthiest of worlds. In the same way that a healthy body consists of a var= iety of cells that are variations of the same theme coded by identical DNA,= a healthy world consists of a variety of peoples that are variations of th= e same themes coded for by our being human and sharing the same cultural un= iversals. =0A=0ABeauty is also related to health =96 as we can see in the b= eauty we find in nature. Healthy plants produce the most beautiful flowers.= Healthy peacocks produce the largest, most symmetrical, most colorful feat= hers. Healthy gobies and other territorial reef fish have the brightest col= ors. All of this natural beauty is the advertisement of health to the oppos= ite sex. The healthiest human bodies (neither overweight nor super model th= in) are the most beautiful. Thus is there also a relationship between healt= h, beauty, and sex. If beauty can thus be equated to health, we can see tha= t beauty is again equated to the holy. And we can see too that sex in-and-o= f-itself is and cannot be unholy, as it is connected (but not equivalent) t= o beauty. =0A=0AA holy world is a whole world. It is a healthy world. It is= a good and just world. It is a complex world. It is a world of individuals= in community. It is a beautiful world. But is it a possible world? I have = already given the answer: the world is itself already holy. We just have to= learn to see it as holy. That is how we will heal the world. And, as we do= , we will become less and less likely to want or try to eliminate those who= disagree with us =96 until we are all in agreement on this one issue, as a= ll the cells in an organism are in agreement on the one issue that they mus= t work together for the health of the whole, even as each performs its own = function. Thus, the world will become more and more holy in our eyes. In wo= rks of tragedy, nomos (convention, human law, naming; from which we get the= words nomad and nomenclature, and which is the changing and changeable asp= ect of the world) comes into conflict with physis (or nature; from which we= get the word physics). That is the position we are now in. When we get nomos to ma= p onto physis (Heraclitus calls this conjunction logos =96 which can be tra= nslated as saying, speech, discourse, word, account, explanation, reason, p= rinciple, collection, enumeration, ratio, proportion), we will see the worl= d as it truly is: holy.=0A=0AOn the Holy=0A=0AWhere lies the holy in the mo= dern world?=0AIt lies in Blake=92s world in a grain of sand =96=0AIt lies, = and lies like the truth, in patterns=0ALike self-organized rings of rocks b= arren=0AArctic fields create. It lies in the branch=0AOf every tree and spe= cies, leafing out=0AFrom the known into the unknown. It lies=0AIn every son= g, painting and rhythmic verse.=0AWe have looked at every leaf and petal,= =0AAt the bark and at the wood, every cell=0AAnd strand of DNA is now known= =96=0AAnd we have forgotten that all of this=0AWas once a tree that gave u= s shade and filled=0AThe air with delicate sweetness and held=0AThe grains = of sand against its roots to hold=0AThe ground in place, even as that groun= d moves=0AAnd changes in tiny ways we refuse=0ATo see. In this we can see t= he holy.=0AThis is where it lies, now and forever,=0AOn the edge of order a= nd wild chaos,=0AWhere the infinite holds in the finite,=0AWhere we, oursel= ves holy, have always lived.=0A=0ATroy Camplin =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 12:21:48 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Chicago Review Subject: New issue of Chicago Review Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed * * * CHICAGO REVIEW is pleased to announce the publication of its Winter =20 2009 issue (54:3) on STEPHEN RODEFER. This special issue includes an interview with Stephen Rodefer, =20 critical essays by Keston Sutherland and David Georgi, two essays and =20= four poems by Rodefer himself, a memoir by Fanny Howe and a checklist. plus... POETRY by Rae Armantrout, Carl Phillips, Ange Mlinko, Endi Hartigan, =20 John Tipton, Joanna Klink, Alice Notley, Paul =C9luard (translated by =20= Robert Huddleston) and Elizabeth Arnold FICTION by Jim Krusoe & Michael Byers REVIEWS of John Matthias, Katie Degentesh, August Kleinzahler and =20 Martin Corless-Smith and COMMENTARY by David Rosenberg and Andrew Duncan * * * To order, visit: http://humanities.uchicago.edu/orgs/review/index.shtml Enter coupon code CANARD for a discount on issues and subscriptions! * * * CHICAGO REVIEW 5801 South Kenwood Chicago, IL 60637 http://humanities.uchicago.edu/review =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 13:57:08 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Issue 1/Verzion 2 In-Reply-To: <200812281621.mBSGL8L4021641@websmtp.sunflower.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable how do we find the originals, Joe? On 12/28/08 11:21 AM, "joeharrington@SUNFLOWER.COM" wrote: > CALL FOR REMISSIONS: VERZION TWO: >=20 > Remember Issue 1 - that PDF on the For Godot blog site that had > computer-generated poems attributed to about 4,000 poets who had nothing = to do > with them?=20 >=20 > Well, some of the people to whom those names are legally attached got pre= tty > upset about it, and others smiled. In any case, it seemed to me like ther= e's a > lot of raw material there that's going unused and unrecycled. Hence, VERZ= ION > TWO. >=20 > If you are one of the names that appeared in that scurrilous publication,= and > if you weren't completely satisfied with the poem that appeared above it, > here's your chance to do better - or at least different. >=20 > Rewrite, revise, recycle, scramble or cannibalize =B3your=B2 poem from Issue = 1. > Send the original, along with your revision to: >=20 > joeharrington [at] sunflower [dot] com >=20 > and I'll put it up (http://verziontwo.blogspot.com). Feel free to include= a > statement about what you liked or disliked in the original and what you d= id > about it. >=20 > Thanks > Joe Harrington >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 14:54:10 -0500 Reply-To: dbuuck@mindspring.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David Buuck Subject: Friday 1/16: Small Press Traffic's Poets Theater Fest 09, night 1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please join us for a full night of theater, performance, and other delights, at the first night of our annual Poets Theater Fest fundraiser. Featuring: WORLD PREMIERES OF: "Only the Money is Real" by Raymond Pettibon (directed by Kevin Killian) "Perverted Virtue" by Tetra Balestri (directed by Milenko Skoknic) "Rabbit Butoh, Bunny Butoh" by Bhanu Kapil (directed by Erin Morrill) "Elsa in Berlin" by Stan Apps (directed by David Brazil) "Trademark Girls" by Wendy Kramer (directed by Mac McGinnes) plus: three short plays by Daniil Kharms, trans. Matvei Yankelevich (directed by Brent Cunningham) intermission performances by Lindsey Boldt, Ariel Goldberg, Brandon Brown, Lara Durbeck, and others as well as a huge raffle, with artworks, signed broadsides and more, from a variety of poets, artists, and presses. wine & refreshments will be served. see you then & there! Show starts promptly at 730pm. $10 Timken Hall, California College of the Arts 1111 8th St., San Francisco sptraffic.org smallpresstraffic.blogspot.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 17:49:08 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Adam Tobin Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit but you were the one crying shame! on the women of the Poetry Brothel! for dressing like whores! (please note that I am NOT arguing that prostitution is not a sexist institution. clearly it is. and i agree that it is part of a complex of normative heterosexuality that does terrible violence to all women. But as for the actual women who are living in actual slavery, i think complaining about the symbolic degrading of womankind does nothing for them: it's like trying to improve the safety of coal mines by complaining about climate change. And if you're just using those women (who are very real, and many of them living in absolutely horrific situations, as you rightly pointed out) as symbols of Degraded Womankind, you are doing a disservice to them and also to the many many women (some of whom must be subscribers to this list) who work in other parts of the sex trade -- exotic dancers, high-end call-girls, dominatrices, nude housekeepers, pornographic models, hooters waitresses, etc. -- some of these people are my friends and i take it personally -- and I think that their own struggles for better working conditions are not unrelated to the struggle against slavery in other parts of their bosses' businesses... -- but i'm sorry that i overreacted and became part of a litany of men (all men! really! can it really be that there are no women here who work in the sex trade??) who are all seemingly trying to justify the institution as an institution. I am not trying to justify it, just trying to defend my friends who work there from the harsh judgments of their elders... -----Original Message----- From: Poetics List (UPenn, UB) [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Ruth Lepson Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 10:11 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory but I don't believe either considering it labor or shame on women is right. in a free society women cd dress any way they wanted not just in ways dictated by the society as sexy. On 1/8/09 8:22 PM, "Adam Tobin" wrote: > I did overstate the case a bit -- only because i thought your reaction > against The Poetry Brothel was itself overstated. Of course sex is > different from sewing. > > And sewing is different from mining, and mining is different from > picking cotton, etc. -- all of these industries have had -- and do > have -- their own slavery problems. And all of them have different > occupational hazards and terrible working conditions that need to be > addressed, and will only be addressed if the workers can bargain > collectively because the bosses are interested only in profits etc. etc. etc. > > I propose that a major reason that slavery persists in the sex > industry is that the labor movement has utterly ignored those workers, > largely because of the knee-jerk moralizing that is our culture's rote > response to any mention of sex-work. (and because it apparently takes > an involved argument to convince even well-meaning people that sex can > be considered work at > all.) > > (I may be the old-fashioned one here, calling for solidarity across > different types of work. But that old labor-movement ethic seems still > useful to me -- whereas the old "shame-on-the-women-who-dress-like-whores" > ethic seems singularly counterproductive.) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Poetics List (UPenn, UB) [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] > On Behalf Of Ruth Lepson > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 11:04 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory > > I guess I must be 200 years old--does nobody else agree that it's > common sense that prostitution is essentially different from other kinds of 'work'? > > > On 12/23/08 10:00 PM, "Adam Tobin" wrote: > >> Why is the capitalist exploitation of women at a brothel worse than, >> say, the capitalist exploitation of women at a Zipper Factory? It's >> just a different kind of labor, no? Given that some artists are >> seemingly comfortable with capitalism, why should they not >> acknowledge it in the name of their ventures? >> >> I understand, of course, that brothels have a particular history with >> a particular kind of violence attached to it, but so do factories. >> Do you direct the same righteous anger at Andy Warhol? >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Poetics List (UPenn, UB) [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] >> On Behalf Of Ruth Lepson >> Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 5:01 PM >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory >> >> brothels about as funny as slavery. >> which British feminist? >> >> >> On 12/21/08 1:44 PM, "steve russell" wrote: >> >>> somewhat related: William Styron, the way he waxes his libido in >>> "Sophie's Choice." >>> i'm still looking for the book of essays by the British Feminist who >>> enlightened me. >>> >>> --- On Sat, 12/20/08, Ruth Lepson wrote: >>> From: Ruth Lepson >>> Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory >>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>> Date: Saturday, December 20, 2008, 6:51 PM >>> >>> cooptation of poetry by capitalist objectification of women. not >>> funny. to use a brothel as a metaphor is disgusting. I remember when >>> Denise Levertov criticized a poet for using napalm as a metaphor for >>> personal pain, saying you don't know what it feels like & it's much >>> worse than the way you are characterizing it. >>> >>> >>> On 12/19/08 4:15 PM, "mIEKAL aND" >>> wrote: >>> >>>> New York poetry brothel tempts with verse >>>> >>>> Published: Friday December 19, 2008 >>>> >>>> >>> http://rawstory.com/news/afp/New_York_poetry_brothel_tempts_with_121 >>> 9 >>> 2 >>> 008.html >>>> >>>> The prostitute whispers, wets her lips and prepares to bare... her >>>> heart with a poem. >>>> >>>> Welcome to New York's Poetry Brothel, where punters delve between >>>> the lines, not the sheets. >>>> >>>> At a weekend session in a Manhattan night club called the Zipper >>>> Factory the look was bona fide bordello. >>>> >>>> Literary ladies of the night flitted between intimate, candle-lit >>>> nooks, red lights and paintings of nudes. >>>> >>>> Some of the poetesses for sale sported retro-style garter belts and >>>> frilly knickers. One swanned about in a top hat and feather boa. >>>> >>>> But transactions at the Poetry Brothel are of the mind, not the >>>> body, and a moment with the catalogue, replete with pictures and >>>> whimsical descriptions, reveals what's on offer. >>>> >>>> Page four boasts The Professor, swearing to have heard "the wail of >>>> your striving heart drifting over the spires of skyscrapers." >>>> >>>> Harriett Van Os on page 10 promises to "tell you secrets she >>> doesn't >>>> know she knows." Cecille Ballroom tempts punters on page 13 >>>> claiming she can "coax your drum." >>>> >>>> Gigolo poets are available, not least Poetry Brothel co-founder >>>> Nicholas Adamski, who goes by the name Tennessee Pink and tops >>>> tempestuous, dark looks with an eye patch. >>>> >>>> "Poetry is what I love more than anything," cooed The Madame, >>> the >>>> sultry spirit behind the whole idea. >>>> >>>> The Madame -- real name Stephanie Berger -- came dressed for the >>>> part in low-cut dress, elbow-length black gloves and a peacock > headdress. >>>> >>>> "I'd rather be in the bedroom hearing poetry than listening to >>> some >>>> old man sitting on a chair on a stage," she explained by the light >>>> of a guttering candle. >>>> >>>> One-on-one encounters, for which "clients" pay three to five >>> dollars >>>> in addition to a 15 dollar entry fee and one free reading, took >>>> place upstairs. >>>> >>>> The "whores" read from their own material, much of which is free >>>> verse, making for intense, sometimes baffling performances. >>>> >>>> But for those needing a break, the Poetry Brothel laid on flamenco >>>> guitarists, a fortune-teller, a blackjack table and a bar >>>> specializing in port and whisky >>>> >>>> The young hedonists, most of them students, appear to have struck a >>>> surprisingly successful formula. >>>> >>>> "There just aren't that many poetry readings where poets show a >>> lot of >>>> cleavage," said The Professor, otherwise known as Jennifer Michael >>>> Hecht, aged 43 and a real life professor at Manhattan's New School. >>>> >>>> She teaches writing to many of the Brothel's regulars and is proud >>>> of the result. >>>> >>>> "It's kind of like the Weimar Republic without the Nazis. At two >>> in >>>> the morning you have 20- or 30-year-olds lying all over the place >>>> reading poetry," she said. >>>> >>>> "The custom is to read poetry alone, but we know that from Homer >>>> onward, people read it aloud and in groups." >>>> >>>> By midnight the Zipper Factory was packed and getting fuller -- and >>>> rowdier. >>>> >>>> The fortune teller, bedecked in red scarf and blue plumes, mumbled >>>> to someone about "choppy waters." The flamenco duo strummed. The >>> Madame, >>>> yet another glass of port in hand, introduced poet "whores" in a >>> voice >>>> suggesting she appreciated more than their literary charms. >>>> >>>> When Patricia Smith, a well-established poet, took the mike to >>>> declaim a long and rhythmical poem about love and making love, >>>> there were rock concert cheers from the crowd. >>>> >>>> "I always shudder when I pray," Smith intoned in a mesmerizing >>> voice, >>>> "so your name must be a prayer." >>>> >>>> Even for these bohemians there's no escaping the economic crisis >>>> sweeping the country. >>>> >>>> One of the poets, 22-year-old Nina Cheng, was about to start a job >>>> at Bear Stearns this year when the bank collapsed. Now she is >>>> writing a play about the experience and applying for a playwright's >>>> course at Yale. >>>> >>>> "I'd thought I'd do banking and get into the arts when I >>> retired -- >>>> not this early," said Cheng, known at the Brothel as The Opium Eater. >>>> >>>> Another poetry prostitute, 27-year-old Rachel Herman-Gross, aka >>>> Simone, worried that crashing stock markets will pull the rug from >>>> under the arts scene. "It's going to be a lot harder. A lot of >>> artists >>>> are sustained by grants from people with money." >>>> >>>> But one enthusiastic "client" said the ingenuity of the Poetry >>> Brothel >>>> proves there are ways to survive. >>>> >>>> "Money's always been scarce for artists and they're very >>> resourceful >>>> people," said Edmund Voyer, 54, a hefty man described as an >>>> "evangelist" on his business card and who came to the Zipper >>> Factory >>>> wearing a kilt. >>>> >>>> His drinking companion, Jennifer Hoa, 27, agreed money and art >>>> would always find ways to meet. >>>> >>>> "I've been a sell-out for years as a corporate lawyer, but I come >>>> here," she said. "I can't suppress my artistic side." >>>> >>>> The Madame promised that the Poetry Brothel welcomed all. >>>> >>>> "Many are young men with perhaps a secret interest in poems," >>> she >>>> murmured. "Just look at the menu. Get a recommendation. Or say you >>>> don't care. Say: 'I need poetry. I'm hungry.'" >>>> >>>> ================================== >>>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>> guidelines & >>>> sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>> >>> ================================== >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>> guidelines & sub/unsub info: >>> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ================================== >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>> guidelines & sub/unsub info: >>> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>> >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: >> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: >> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 18:54:07 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Dale Smith Subject: Amiri Baraka on Ed Dorn Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Amiri Baraka's essay, "Ed Dorn & The Western World," is now available through Effing Press: http://effingpress.com/baraka.htm. It is based on a talk Baraka gave in March 2008 during the Ed Dorn Symposium, sponsored by the University of Colorado-Boulder. In the essay he looks at how both men addressed ethnic division and the consequences of race in their work. This is a substantial reflection on the history of New American poetics. I encourage everyone to purchase a copy today. Thanks, Dale -- Dale Smith Doctoral Student, Department of English University of Texas 1 University Station, B5000 Austin, TX 78712 ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 09:13:33 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Richard Louis Ray Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory In-Reply-To: <991683.16012.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Well, I really hate to come out of lurkdom on the list with a response to this discussion, but I think the following view is worth taking into consideration while contemplating the topic at hand. I spoke to a friend yesterday who was in "the business" for a couple years in NYC in the early 2000s, a friend whom I lived with during part of the time, and she wanted to make it very clear that in many instances, she didn't have to perform sexual activities with her clients, or that the sexual part was minimal, a hand job or pissing in the client's mouth. There was an old boxing coach who would call girls and teach them a few tricks and have them beat up on him a bit. She said many of her Jewish clients would get girls simply to spank them. Probably a demoralizing experience if your approach is one of your flesh being violated, but her take on it was that, for the money, it was no less demoralizing than frying burgers for minimum wage. Of course there were many men, some of whom she found attractive and enjoyed intercourse with, some of whom she didn't, in which case, she would keep the encounter strictly business. She acknowledged the risks, but said she would consider someone grossly ignorant and foolish to have entered the profession and not have been aware of the risks and taken measures to prevent any disasters. She always had a driver "tough guy" waiting outside in case she didn't come out at the appointed time. This cut down on her profits, but she felt the potential protection was worth it. She got herself tested regularly and put a decent portion of the money away as a nest egg. If she went on a call and "didn't feel right about it" when she got there or if the guy had "obvious signs of disease" she would call her driver immediately and leave. She also said that several of the girls she worked with, including her sister, seemed to enjoy the work more times than not, and that in some cases, it seemed boost their confidence, strength of mind, and sense of independence. We didn't get into the details of how and why. She did admit that it wasn't a job she would want to work for very long, and said she got out of it mainly because she'd grown tired of it, but she didn't regret having gone through the experience and felt that, overall, much of how you felt about it was dependent on the attitude you brought to it. I'm not saying there aren't countless sex-related atrocities occurring around the world daily...I spent a while investigating the situation in Romania a couple years back and was rather disgusted to say the least, but I think it's important to consider the subject from as many angles as possible, including considering some of the more positive outcomes as well. RR ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 22:00:41 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Doug Holder Subject: Human Derivatives in Doug Holder=?WINDOWS-1252?Q?=92s=3A_?= The Man in the Booth in the Midtown Tunnel (Cervena Barva Press Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Human Derivatives in Doug Holder=92s: The Man in the Booth in the Midtown= =20 Tunnel =20 Human Derivatives in Doug Holder=92s: The Man in the Booth in the Midtown= =20 Tunnel (Cervena Barva Press)=20 article by Michael Todd Steffen=20 The man in the booth in the Midtown Tunnel, not the title of a poem but i= ts=20 subject, gives us, the passengers on the subway, a fleeting camera click = of=20 glimpse of a man defined in his function. He is confined to an extreme ex= ample=20 of a human reduced from nearly all that makes him human, precisely becaus= e=20 of how the world today is structured, encountered and processed. He is li= ke a=20 zoo animal. He paces the perimeter Of his cage, poet Doug Holder writes i= n=20 lines reminiscent of Rainier Marie Rilke The Panther.=20 Holder typically takes these sorts of verbal photographs of people unusua= lly=20 overridden by probably what is not a definitive moment for the people as = they=20 really are, but by awkward vivid moments that would package them palatabl= y=20 for our quick-take-for-thrills media consciousness. People confined to=20= monotonous jobs of function in a tunnel booth or at a post office machine= ,=20 confined ridiculously for two years in a toilet, gotten up in colonial at= tire,=20 apprehended at a maddened moment painting the statue of John Harvard red=20= while tourists snap pictures. The poet is snapping these photos partaking in the mania of his contempor= ary=20 culture, and in doing so he is exercising a mimesis of the dynamics of 21= st=20 century perception, how data about ourselves is created and presented to=20= others. As though our experience today consisted of a rapid succession of= =20 sudden images, spaced messages left, brief chats, sandwiches in wrappers = on=20 the go, news headlines, shifting windows, all with a hawks eye out for th= e=20 next quirk or embarrassment to give cause to the perpetual laugh-track th= at=20 must punctuate each moments joke, each segment of the day. These are as serious implications as one would want to draw from a poet=20= whose (can it be?) earnest intention is to humor us. Yet that Holder's=20= perceptions are so keenly attuned to how the world works today gives an=20= underlying substance to his seeming legerdemain, short poems of truncated= =20 lines, almost epigrammatic,laconic, tongue-in-cheek, yet at the same time= =20 oddly in the sympathetic spirit that Auden remembered in William Butler Y= eats:=20 In a rapture of distress Sing of human unsuccess.=20 And Doug Holder's disappointments succeed because, in partaking of the sw= ift=20 momentum of today's mediatized mindset, he stubbornly entertains his=20 subjects as human in their dilemmas of being exposed. If the man in the b= ooth=20 of the Midtown Tunnel appears caged to us, how must we appear to him? Faceless and a blur, Behind thick plates Of light-bleached glass. Poignantly from so little, Holder produces a rather profound insight, art= iculated=20 with lyrical simplicity:=20 And we will All remain Ignorant of Each other.=20 A danger the poet risks in tailoring verse to popular contemporary expect= ations=20 is that his or her work may be read with no more attention, say, than tha= t=20 ordinarily given to a cartoon strip or a note to the editor. Holders deft= word- smithing, however, can halt us in the slaloms down the slopes, to want to= mull=20 over such coinings and scrivennings as blue uniform (Man in the Booth), I= t is=20 only a hassle, (The Woman who Sat ), sea of manila (Postal Worker), the=20= oxymoronic age's inertia (Two Old Women) and the metaphysical conceits of= =20 Bites of memory (The Last Hotdog) and of the final strophe in Postal Work= er,=20 You feel Ready to Be returned to Your sender a dazzling compression of the momentary and mechanical with the ontologic= al=20 and transcendent. In the recent year we have seen Doug Holder, a prolific and generous=20 advocate of emerging poets in the Boston area, up in arms defending the=20= worthiness of small press publications. Tirelessly he has organized readi= ngs and=20 conducted interviews with local and national writers, giving them light o= f day=20 on the Ibbetson Street website pages, in the Lyrical Somerville, and on t= he=20 local Public Television program Author to Author. He has greatly helped g= ive=20 purpose to area intellectuals who meditate and labor to find expression i= n=20 poetry and share as a community on Saturday mornings with the Bagels &= ;=20 Bards at the Davis Square Au Bon Pain. Cambridge/Somerville is a better p= lace=20 because of Doug Holder, and the small press made vital and serious becaus= e of=20 the many publications he has been involved with, not least this latest=20= collection of his own poetry that yields and yields enjoyment and meaning= on=20 reading after reading.=20 The Man in the Booth in the Midtown Tunnel by Doug Holder is available fo= r=20 $13.00 through Cervana Barva Press/P.O. Box 440357/W. Somerville, MA=20 02144-3222. http://cervenabarvapress.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 09:52:14 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Ginsberg & Gary Snyder: Two collections of Letters reviewed --NY Times MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Books / Sunday Book Reviewhttp://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/books/review/Ca= mpbell-t.html Howls By JAMES CAMPBELL Two collections of letters by Allen Ginsberg and Gary Snyder=2C both edited by Bill Morgan=2C illuminate the poets=92 career= s and emotional life. _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live=99 Hotmail=AE: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail.=20 http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_hm_justgotbetter_h= owitworks_012009= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 15:15:19 -0800 Reply-To: poet_in_hell@yahoo.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve russell Subject: Re: Prostitution in Sweden MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable some info from wikipedia: =A0 Sweden considers prostitution a form of Violence against Women. Only the customer is prosecuted. as for male prostitutes, the same rules apply. the customer is held in contempt. this, i suppose, would discourage pimps, brothels, et cetera. as far as i can tell, Sweden has the most enlightened approach towards the = world's "oldest proffession." =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 10:51:38 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Paul Foster Johnson Subject: Litmus Press Call for Submissions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" We are currently accepting new manuscripts for our poetry series. Manuscripts must be postmarked by February 15, 2009 to be considered for publication in 2010-11. We are interested in unpublished book-length manuscripts (60 pages or mor= e) of innovative poetry or cross-genre works written in English. We will consider works written in English by non-U.S. authors in this series but works in translation are subject to our Translation Series guidelines.=20= Please send 2 copies of your manuscript, an acknowledgments page (if applicable), and a cover letter including your name, the title of your manuscript, your address, phone number, and email to: Litmus Press Poetry Series P.O. Box 25526 Brooklyn, NY 11202-5526 We regret that we cannot return your manuscript, so please do not send yo= ur only copy. Manuscripts will be recycled at the end of our reading period.= Publication decisions will be announced in Spring 2009. We do not accept submissions via email at this time. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 23:40:13 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Prostitution in Sweden Comments: To: poet_in_hell@yahoo.com In-Reply-To: <533899.34710.qm@web52403.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable goddess bless you for sending this & bless sweden. On 1/10/09 6:15 PM, "steve russell" wrote: > some info from wikipedia: > =A0 > Sweden considers prostitution a form of Violence against Women. > Only the customer is prosecuted. >=20 > as for male prostitutes, the same rules apply. > the customer is held in contempt. >=20 > this, i suppose, would discourage pimps, brothels, et cetera. > as far as i can tell, Sweden has the most enlightened approach towards th= e > world's "oldest > proffession." >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 23:43:24 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I appreciate your writing, Richard, and adding some specificity to the conversation. However, I doubt I will ever agree that all that you describe is ok. In fact, it's awful for someone to be subjected to these things. Imagine how tough she must have become to deal with all of this--covering up her feelings, her sense of dignity. Not good for anyone. On 1/9/09 9:13 AM, "Richard Louis Ray" wrote: > Well, I really hate to come out of lurkdom on the list with a response > to this discussion, but I think the following view is worth taking into > consideration while contemplating the topic at hand. I spoke to a friend > yesterday who was in "the business" for a couple years in NYC in the early > 2000s, a friend whom I lived with during part of the time, and she wanted > to make it very clear that in many instances, she didn't have to perform > sexual activities with her clients, or that the sexual part was minimal, > a hand job or pissing in the client's mouth. There was an old boxing coach > who would call girls and teach them a few tricks and have them beat up on > him a bit. She said many of her Jewish clients would get girls simply to > spank them. Probably a demoralizing experience if your approach is one of > your flesh being violated, but her take on it was that, for the money, it > was no less demoralizing than frying burgers for minimum wage. Of course > there were many men, some of whom she found attractive and enjoyed > intercourse with, some of whom she didn't, in which case, she would keep > the encounter strictly business. She acknowledged the risks, but said she > would consider someone grossly ignorant and foolish to have entered the > profession and not have been aware of the risks and taken measures to > prevent any disasters. She always had a driver "tough guy" waiting > outside in case she didn't come out at the appointed time. This cut down > on her profits, but she felt the potential protection was worth it. She > got herself tested regularly and put a decent portion of the money away > as a nest egg. If she went on a call and "didn't feel right about it" > when she got there or if the guy had "obvious signs of disease" she would > call her driver immediately and leave. She also said that several of the > girls she worked with, including her sister, seemed to enjoy the work > more times than not, and that in some cases, it seemed boost their > confidence, strength of mind, and sense of independence. We didn't get > into the details of how and why. She did admit that it wasn't a job she > would want to work for very long, and said she got out of it mainly > because she'd grown tired of it, but she didn't regret having gone through > the experience and felt that, overall, much of how you felt about it was > dependent on the attitude you brought to it. > > I'm not saying there aren't countless sex-related atrocities occurring > around the world daily...I spent a while investigating the situation in > Romania a couple years back and was rather disgusted to say the least, > but I think it's important to consider the subject from as many angles > as possible, including considering some of the more positive outcomes as > well. > > RR > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 23:49:49 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory In-Reply-To: <88E159D579E6498399FCD6165032CCC9@rose> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit twisting my words! so writing about objections to prostitution does nothing, huh--so words don't matter? I think all those jobs are degrading. I wd like to defend yr friends by getting them better jobs. I am not criticizing these women. Better working conditions wd be not having to succumb to male ideas of sexuality in our culture, such narrow constraints. On 1/9/09 5:49 PM, "Adam Tobin" wrote: > but you were the one crying shame! on the women of the Poetry Brothel! for > dressing like whores! > > (please note that I am NOT arguing that prostitution is not a sexist > institution. clearly it is. and i agree that it is part of a complex of > normative heterosexuality that does terrible violence to all women. But as > for the actual women who are living in actual slavery, i think complaining > about the symbolic degrading of womankind does nothing for them: it's like > trying to improve the safety of coal mines by complaining about climate > change. > > And if you're just using those women (who are very real, and many of them > living in absolutely horrific situations, as you rightly pointed out) as > symbols of Degraded Womankind, you are doing a disservice to them and also > to the many many women (some of whom must be subscribers to this list) who > work in other parts of the sex trade -- exotic dancers, high-end call-girls, > dominatrices, nude housekeepers, pornographic models, hooters waitresses, > etc. -- some of these people are my friends and i take it personally -- and > I think that their own struggles for better working conditions are not > unrelated to the struggle against slavery in other parts of their bosses' > businesses... > > -- but i'm sorry that i overreacted and became part of a litany of men (all > men! really! can it really be that there are no women here who work in the > sex trade??) who are all seemingly trying to justify the institution as an > institution. I am not trying to justify it, just trying to defend my > friends who work there from the harsh judgments of their elders... > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Poetics List (UPenn, UB) [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > Behalf Of Ruth Lepson > Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 10:11 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory > > but I don't believe either considering it labor or shame on women is right. > in a free society women cd dress any way they wanted not just in ways > dictated by the society as sexy. > > > On 1/8/09 8:22 PM, "Adam Tobin" wrote: > >> I did overstate the case a bit -- only because i thought your reaction >> against The Poetry Brothel was itself overstated. Of course sex is >> different from sewing. >> >> And sewing is different from mining, and mining is different from >> picking cotton, etc. -- all of these industries have had -- and do >> have -- their own slavery problems. And all of them have different >> occupational hazards and terrible working conditions that need to be >> addressed, and will only be addressed if the workers can bargain >> collectively because the bosses are interested only in profits etc. etc. > etc. >> >> I propose that a major reason that slavery persists in the sex >> industry is that the labor movement has utterly ignored those workers, >> largely because of the knee-jerk moralizing that is our culture's rote >> response to any mention of sex-work. (and because it apparently takes >> an involved argument to convince even well-meaning people that sex can >> be considered work at >> all.) >> >> (I may be the old-fashioned one here, calling for solidarity across >> different types of work. But that old labor-movement ethic seems still >> useful to me -- whereas the old "shame-on-the-women-who-dress-like-whores" >> ethic seems singularly counterproductive.) >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Poetics List (UPenn, UB) [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] >> On Behalf Of Ruth Lepson >> Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 11:04 PM >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory >> >> I guess I must be 200 years old--does nobody else agree that it's >> common sense that prostitution is essentially different from other kinds > of 'work'? >> >> >> On 12/23/08 10:00 PM, "Adam Tobin" wrote: >> >>> Why is the capitalist exploitation of women at a brothel worse than, >>> say, the capitalist exploitation of women at a Zipper Factory? It's >>> just a different kind of labor, no? Given that some artists are >>> seemingly comfortable with capitalism, why should they not >>> acknowledge it in the name of their ventures? >>> >>> I understand, of course, that brothels have a particular history with >>> a particular kind of violence attached to it, but so do factories. >>> Do you direct the same righteous anger at Andy Warhol? >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Poetics List (UPenn, UB) [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] >>> On Behalf Of Ruth Lepson >>> Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 5:01 PM >>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>> Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory >>> >>> brothels about as funny as slavery. >>> which British feminist? >>> >>> >>> On 12/21/08 1:44 PM, "steve russell" wrote: >>> >>>> somewhat related: William Styron, the way he waxes his libido in >>>> "Sophie's Choice." >>>> i'm still looking for the book of essays by the British Feminist who >>>> enlightened me. >>>> >>>> --- On Sat, 12/20/08, Ruth Lepson wrote: >>>> From: Ruth Lepson >>>> Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory >>>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>>> Date: Saturday, December 20, 2008, 6:51 PM >>>> >>>> cooptation of poetry by capitalist objectification of women. not >>>> funny. to use a brothel as a metaphor is disgusting. I remember when >>>> Denise Levertov criticized a poet for using napalm as a metaphor for >>>> personal pain, saying you don't know what it feels like & it's much >>>> worse than the way you are characterizing it. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 12/19/08 4:15 PM, "mIEKAL aND" >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> New York poetry brothel tempts with verse >>>>> >>>>> Published: Friday December 19, 2008 >>>>> >>>>> >>>> http://rawstory.com/news/afp/New_York_poetry_brothel_tempts_with_121 >>>> 9 >>>> 2 >>>> 008.html >>>>> >>>>> The prostitute whispers, wets her lips and prepares to bare... her >>>>> heart with a poem. >>>>> >>>>> Welcome to New York's Poetry Brothel, where punters delve between >>>>> the lines, not the sheets. >>>>> >>>>> At a weekend session in a Manhattan night club called the Zipper >>>>> Factory the look was bona fide bordello. >>>>> >>>>> Literary ladies of the night flitted between intimate, candle-lit >>>>> nooks, red lights and paintings of nudes. >>>>> >>>>> Some of the poetesses for sale sported retro-style garter belts and >>>>> frilly knickers. One swanned about in a top hat and feather boa. >>>>> >>>>> But transactions at the Poetry Brothel are of the mind, not the >>>>> body, and a moment with the catalogue, replete with pictures and >>>>> whimsical descriptions, reveals what's on offer. >>>>> >>>>> Page four boasts The Professor, swearing to have heard "the wail of >>>>> your striving heart drifting over the spires of skyscrapers." >>>>> >>>>> Harriett Van Os on page 10 promises to "tell you secrets she >>>> doesn't >>>>> know she knows." Cecille Ballroom tempts punters on page 13 >>>>> claiming she can "coax your drum." >>>>> >>>>> Gigolo poets are available, not least Poetry Brothel co-founder >>>>> Nicholas Adamski, who goes by the name Tennessee Pink and tops >>>>> tempestuous, dark looks with an eye patch. >>>>> >>>>> "Poetry is what I love more than anything," cooed The Madame, >>>> the >>>>> sultry spirit behind the whole idea. >>>>> >>>>> The Madame -- real name Stephanie Berger -- came dressed for the >>>>> part in low-cut dress, elbow-length black gloves and a peacock >> headdress. >>>>> >>>>> "I'd rather be in the bedroom hearing poetry than listening to >>>> some >>>>> old man sitting on a chair on a stage," she explained by the light >>>>> of a guttering candle. >>>>> >>>>> One-on-one encounters, for which "clients" pay three to five >>>> dollars >>>>> in addition to a 15 dollar entry fee and one free reading, took >>>>> place upstairs. >>>>> >>>>> The "whores" read from their own material, much of which is free >>>>> verse, making for intense, sometimes baffling performances. >>>>> >>>>> But for those needing a break, the Poetry Brothel laid on flamenco >>>>> guitarists, a fortune-teller, a blackjack table and a bar >>>>> specializing in port and whisky >>>>> >>>>> The young hedonists, most of them students, appear to have struck a >>>>> surprisingly successful formula. >>>>> >>>>> "There just aren't that many poetry readings where poets show a >>>> lot of >>>>> cleavage," said The Professor, otherwise known as Jennifer Michael >>>>> Hecht, aged 43 and a real life professor at Manhattan's New School. >>>>> >>>>> She teaches writing to many of the Brothel's regulars and is proud >>>>> of the result. >>>>> >>>>> "It's kind of like the Weimar Republic without the Nazis. At two >>>> in >>>>> the morning you have 20- or 30-year-olds lying all over the place >>>>> reading poetry," she said. >>>>> >>>>> "The custom is to read poetry alone, but we know that from Homer >>>>> onward, people read it aloud and in groups." >>>>> >>>>> By midnight the Zipper Factory was packed and getting fuller -- and >>>>> rowdier. >>>>> >>>>> The fortune teller, bedecked in red scarf and blue plumes, mumbled >>>>> to someone about "choppy waters." The flamenco duo strummed. The >>>> Madame, >>>>> yet another glass of port in hand, introduced poet "whores" in a >>>> voice >>>>> suggesting she appreciated more than their literary charms. >>>>> >>>>> When Patricia Smith, a well-established poet, took the mike to >>>>> declaim a long and rhythmical poem about love and making love, >>>>> there were rock concert cheers from the crowd. >>>>> >>>>> "I always shudder when I pray," Smith intoned in a mesmerizing >>>> voice, >>>>> "so your name must be a prayer." >>>>> >>>>> Even for these bohemians there's no escaping the economic crisis >>>>> sweeping the country. >>>>> >>>>> One of the poets, 22-year-old Nina Cheng, was about to start a job >>>>> at Bear Stearns this year when the bank collapsed. Now she is >>>>> writing a play about the experience and applying for a playwright's >>>>> course at Yale. >>>>> >>>>> "I'd thought I'd do banking and get into the arts when I >>>> retired -- >>>>> not this early," said Cheng, known at the Brothel as The Opium Eater. >>>>> >>>>> Another poetry prostitute, 27-year-old Rachel Herman-Gross, aka >>>>> Simone, worried that crashing stock markets will pull the rug from >>>>> under the arts scene. "It's going to be a lot harder. A lot of >>>> artists >>>>> are sustained by grants from people with money." >>>>> >>>>> But one enthusiastic "client" said the ingenuity of the Poetry >>>> Brothel >>>>> proves there are ways to survive. >>>>> >>>>> "Money's always been scarce for artists and they're very >>>> resourceful >>>>> people," said Edmund Voyer, 54, a hefty man described as an >>>>> "evangelist" on his business card and who came to the Zipper >>>> Factory >>>>> wearing a kilt. >>>>> >>>>> His drinking companion, Jennifer Hoa, 27, agreed money and art >>>>> would always find ways to meet. >>>>> >>>>> "I've been a sell-out for years as a corporate lawyer, but I come >>>>> here," she said. "I can't suppress my artistic side." >>>>> >>>>> The Madame promised that the Poetry Brothel welcomed all. >>>>> >>>>> "Many are young men with perhaps a secret interest in poems," >>>> she >>>>> murmured. "Just look at the menu. Get a recommendation. Or say you >>>>> don't care. Say: 'I need poetry. I'm hungry.'" >>>>> >>>>> ================================== >>>>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>>> guidelines & >>>>> sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>>> >>>> ================================== >>>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>>> guidelines & sub/unsub info: >>>> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ================================== >>>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>>> guidelines & sub/unsub info: >>>> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>>> >>> >>> ================================== >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>> guidelines & sub/unsub info: >>> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>> >>> ================================== >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>> guidelines & sub/unsub info: >>> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: >> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: >> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 07:09:13 -0800 Reply-To: amyhappens@yahoo.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: amy king Subject: Want your poem to reach nearly two million people? Comments: To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Want your words to reach nearly two million people?=20 Goodreads and the =A1Poetry! group have partnered to create a contest in or= der to select a new poem each month for our newsletter.=20 http://www.goodreads.com/group/show/233._POETRY_ 1. Post your best poem (one poem per person) in this folder. 2. Goodreads and I will select five poems each month to be voted on by the = Goodreads community. 3. =A1Poetry! group members will vote for the poem they like best (one vote= per member) once the poll with the five finalists' poems are posted. The p= oem with the most votes will be published in the Goodreads=92 newsletter = =96 distributed each month to nearly 2 million people! Good luck & please post your best work! Thanks, Amy King =A1Poetry! Moderator=20 http://www.goodreads.com/group/show/233._POETRY_ _______ Recent work http://www.writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/King.html Amy's Alias http://amyking.org/=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:49:05 -0800 Reply-To: steph484@pacbell.net Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Eyeless in Gaza Comments: To: UK POETRY , "Poetryetc: poetry and poetics" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It is no longer 'Eyeless in Gaza" - Israel's attempts to keep the media out= of Gaza notwithstanding, on the outside we have more than an absolutely aw= ful 'Eyeful' now. Even from the standpoint of traditional Ghetto (Occupatio= n) management standards, the carnage of Palestinians, plus buildings,=A0 in= frastructure and homes is an absolute outrage and failure. In terms of Amer= ican racial history, Gaza in many ways so much echos Kansas City, Watts, De= troit and any number of other ghetto uprisings that have been mercilessly c= aused and the repressions of which have been mercilessly executed.=A0=20 As Hitler & Company envisioned Jews as a permanent threat to some concept o= f German purity, progress, etc., what does the Israeli leadership, such as = it is, seek to eliminate in Gaza! =A0=20 Going back to the '60's in California=A0 I can remember racist Governor Ron= ald Regan & company hearing and magnifying the 'threat'=A0 of separatist an= d armed Black militants.=A0 Instead of figuring out ways to negotiate and d= eal with the real issues inside ghetto communities, they responded in the= =A0 same heavy handed paranoid manner that Israel's right wing is respondin= g=A0 to Hamas - that is by demonizing and (now obviously)=A0 seeking their = liquidation on all levels - institutional, cultural, etc. etc.=A0 As if thi= s kind of punishment has ever been successful - short run, maybe yes, but l= ong term most always a form of national self-poisoning. (i.e., witness the = wonderful, self-destructing condition of the USA today! )=20 & all with the final 'last days' support of support of George Bush and Dick= Cheney - and all 'in our name'.=A0 =A0 Again. Watch Israel withdraw from Gaza on the day before the Inauguration. Astonis= hing (or not)=A0 what garbage these people are dumping into Obama's White H= ouse the week before he moves in! Oy! Stephen Vincent http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 00:16:02 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20090108230108.06c368a0@earthlink.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit who's judging men & women for trying to get each others' attention? there are an infinite number of ways of doing that, I suppose. I myself used to be very good at it. the best party I ever went to was given by a crazy gal doing off-broadway--she brought her troupe to town & they brought their costumes & put them all over the floor. every hour we had to change outfits. we cd combine anything with anything. that was liberating. On 1/8/09 11:12 PM, "Mark Weiss" wrote: > When we all wear golden slippers and are pure of heart things may be > different. Til then even women get to enjoy whatever fantasy. Though > I imagine some will deconstruct their motives. > > Years ago I was invited to a party in the Hamptons. Turns out it was > a "lingerie and toga" party. Nobody told me, so I wasn't dressed > appropriately. It was a lot of young professionals, dressed as the > name suggests. It was very sad, not because of the indecorous > clothes, but because it was otherwise crushingly decorous. Go figure. > > Young men and women are in the business of getting each others' > attention. Appears to be instinctual. Seems a shame to judge them for it. > > Mark > > At 10:08 PM 1/8/2009, Ruth Lepson wrote: >> but WHY something gets you off is the question. >> >> >> On 1/8/09 6:37 PM, "Mark Weiss" wrote: >> >>> I'm not sure what you're objecting to, as you seem to be paraphrasing >>> what I said. In the best of all possible worlds there would probably >>> be some voluntary prostitution, but I'd still wonder at the >>> psychological cost to those who chose to make their living that way. >>> Choosing to playact at prostitution, like the women in the poetry >>> brothel, is simply fantasy, and no more destructive, I'd think, than >>> wearing a pirate costume. It's under the category of "whatever >> gets you off." >>> >>> Mark >>> >>> At 01:45 PM 1/8/2009, steve russell wrote: >>>> interesting distinction: Genet did a number with the fantasy realm. >>>> But what, exactly, do you mean, Mark, by the fantasy of >>>> prostitution? Phone sex? I suppose that's somewhat harmless. But >>>> that ain't the real thing. When it's real, as in the sex trade, >>>> we're talking ugly/ugly/ugly. >>>> >>>> --- On Tue, 1/6/09, Mark Weiss wrote: >>>> From: Mark Weiss >>>> Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory >>>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>>> Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 11:41 PM >>>> >>>> I think we need to make a distinction between prostitution and the >>>> fantasy of prostitution. Most prostitution is compelled or a response >>>> to desperation. Most fantasy prostitution, playing dress-up and the >>>> like, isn't. >>>> >>>> At 02:34 PM 1/6/2009, you wrote: >>>>> I saw reference in there to men and gigolos. I have a problem >> with the old >>>>> school "sex degrades women" feminist argument. Is a the location >>>> of a >>>>> brothel and the profession of prostitution *always* and inherently >>>> degrading >>>>> to women? I thought there were sex-positive feminists who were working >>>>> against that idea. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: steve russell [mailto:poet_in_hell@YAHOO.COM] >>>>> Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 5:49 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory >>>>> >>>>> this seems pretty light hearted. >>>>> I'm sorry to hear about the wicked (objects, et cetera) capitalist. >>>>> i suspect that the most die hard feminist could enjoy her/himself. >>>>> >>>>> --- On Fri, 12/19/08, mIEKAL aND wrote: >>>>> From: mIEKAL aND >>>>> Subject: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory >>>>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>>>> Date: Friday, December 19, 2008, 4:15 PM >>>>> >>>>> New York poetry brothel tempts with verse >>>>> >>>>> Published: Friday December 19, 2008 >>>>> >>>>> >> http://rawstory.com/news/afp/New_York_poetry_brothel_tempts_with_12192008.ht >>>>> ml >>>>> >>>>> The prostitute whispers, wets her lips and prepares to bare... her heart >>>>> with a >>>>> poem. >>>>> >>>>> Welcome to New York's Poetry Brothel, where punters delve between the >>>>> lines, not the sheets. >>>>> >>>>> At a weekend session in a Manhattan night club called the Zipper Factory >>>> the >>>>> look was bona fide bordello. >>>>> >>>>> Literary ladies of the night flitted between intimate, candle-lit nooks, >>>> red >>>>> lights and paintings of nudes. >>>>> >>>>> Some of the poetesses for sale sported retro-style garter belts >> and frilly >>>>> knickers. One swanned about in a top hat and feather boa. >>>>> >>>>> But transactions at the Poetry Brothel are of the mind, not the >> body, and a >>>>> moment with the catalogue, replete with pictures and whimsical >>>> descriptions, >>>>> reveals what's on offer. >>>>> >>>>> Page four boasts The Professor, swearing to have heard "the wail of >>>> your >>>>> striving heart drifting over the spires of skyscrapers." >>>>> >>>>> Harriett Van Os on page 10 promises to "tell you secrets she >>>> doesn't >>>>> know she knows." Cecille Ballroom tempts punters on page 13 claiming >>>> she >>>>> can "coax your drum." >>>>> >>>>> Gigolo poets are available, not least Poetry Brothel co-founder Nicholas >>>>> Adamski, who goes by the name Tennessee Pink and tops tempestuous, dark >>>>> looks >>>>> with an eye patch. >>>>> >>>>> "Poetry is what I love more than anything," cooed The Madame, the >>>>> sultry spirit behind the whole idea. >>>>> >>>>> The Madame -- real name Stephanie Berger -- came dressed for the part in >>>>> low-cut dress, elbow-length black gloves and a peacock headdress. >>>>> >>>>> "I'd rather be in the bedroom hearing poetry than listening to >>>> some >>>>> old man sitting on a chair on a stage," she explained by the light of >>>> a >>>>> guttering candle. >>>>> >>>>> One-on-one encounters, for which "clients" pay three to five >>>> dollars >>>>> in addition to a 15 dollar entry fee and one free reading, took place >>>>> upstairs. >>>>> >>>>> The "whores" read from their own material, much of which is free >>>>> verse, making for intense, sometimes baffling performances. >>>>> >>>>> But for those needing a break, the Poetry Brothel laid on flamenco >>>>> guitarists, >>>>> a fortune-teller, a blackjack table and a bar specializing in port and >>>>> whisky >>>>> >>>>> The young hedonists, most of them students, appear to have struck a >>>>> surprisingly successful formula. >>>>> >>>>> "There just aren't that many poetry readings where poets show a >>>> lot of >>>>> cleavage," said The Professor, otherwise known as Jennifer Michael >>>> Hecht, >>>>> aged 43 and a real life professor at Manhattan's New School. >>>>> >>>>> She teaches writing to many of the Brothel's regulars and is proud of >>>> the >>>>> result. >>>>> >>>>> "It's kind of like the Weimar Republic without the Nazis. At two >>>> in >>>>> the morning you have 20- or 30-year-olds lying all over the place reading >>>>> poetry," she said. >>>>> >>>>> "The custom is to read poetry alone, but we know that from Homer >>>> onward, >>>>> people read it aloud and in groups." >>>>> >>>>> By midnight the Zipper Factory was packed and getting fuller -- and >>>> rowdier. >>>>> >>>>> The fortune teller, bedecked in red scarf and blue plumes, mumbled to >>>>> someone >>>>> about "choppy waters." The flamenco duo strummed. The Madame, yet >>>>> another glass of port in hand, introduced poet "whores" in a >>>> voice >>>>> suggesting she appreciated more than their literary charms. >>>>> >>>>> When Patricia Smith, a well-established poet, took the mike to declaim a >>>>> long >>>>> and rhythmical poem about love and making love, there were rock concert >>>>> cheers >>>>> from the crowd. >>>>> >>>>> "I always shudder when I pray," Smith intoned in a mesmerizing >>>> voice, >>>>> "so your name must be a prayer." >>>>> >>>>> Even for these bohemians there's no escaping the economic crisis >>>> sweeping >>>>> the country. >>>>> >>>>> One of the poets, 22-year-old Nina Cheng, was about to start a >> job at Bear >>>>> Stearns this year when the bank collapsed. Now she is writing a >> play about >>>>> the >>>>> experience and applying for a playwright's course at Yale. >>>>> >>>>> "I'd thought I'd do banking and get into the arts when I >>>> retired >>>>> -- not this early," said Cheng, known at the Brothel as The Opium >>>> Eater. >>>>> >>>>> Another poetry prostitute, 27-year-old Rachel Herman-Gross, aka Simone, >>>>> worried >>>>> that crashing stock markets will pull the rug from under the arts scene. >>>>> "It's going to be a lot harder. A lot of artists are sustained by >>>>> grants from people with money." >>>>> >>>>> But one enthusiastic "client" said the ingenuity of the Poetry >>>>> Brothel proves there are ways to survive. >>>>> >>>>> "Money's always been scarce for artists and they're very >>>>> resourceful people," said Edmund Voyer, 54, a hefty man described as >>>> an >>>>> "evangelist" on his business card and who came to the Zipper >>>> Factory >>>>> wearing a kilt. >>>>> >>>>> His drinking companion, Jennifer Hoa, 27, agreed money and art >> would always >>>>> find ways to meet. >>>>> >>>>> "I've been a sell-out for years as a corporate lawyer, but I come >>>>> here," she said. "I can't suppress my artistic side." >>>>> >>>>> The Madame promised that the Poetry Brothel welcomed all. >>>>> >>>>> "Many are young men with perhaps a secret interest in poems," she >>>>> murmured. "Just look at the menu. Get a recommendation. Or say you >>>>> don't care. Say: 'I need poetry. I'm hungry.'" >>>>> >>>>> ================================== >>>>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>>> guidelines >>>>> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ================================== >>>>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>>> guidelines >>>>> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ================================== >>>>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>>>> guidelines & sub/unsub info: >>>> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>>> >>>> ================================== >>>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines >>>> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ================================== >>>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>>> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>>> >>> >>> ================================== >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & >>> sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 00:41:31 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Alice Notley has a poem which starts with the protagonist saying she a woman in a whore house. I can not at this moment remember the title. Ciao, Murat On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 11:49 PM, Ruth Lepson wrote: > twisting my words! > so writing about objections to prostitution does nothing, huh--so words > don't matter? > I think all those jobs are degrading. > I wd like to defend yr friends by getting them better jobs. > I am not criticizing these women. > Better working conditions wd be not having to succumb to male ideas of > sexuality in our culture, such narrow constraints. > > > > On 1/9/09 5:49 PM, "Adam Tobin" wrote: > > > but you were the one crying shame! on the women of the Poetry Brothel! > for > > dressing like whores! > > > > (please note that I am NOT arguing that prostitution is not a sexist > > institution. clearly it is. and i agree that it is part of a complex of > > normative heterosexuality that does terrible violence to all women. But > as > > for the actual women who are living in actual slavery, i think > complaining > > about the symbolic degrading of womankind does nothing for them: it's > like > > trying to improve the safety of coal mines by complaining about climate > > change. > > > > And if you're just using those women (who are very real, and many of them > > living in absolutely horrific situations, as you rightly pointed out) as > > symbols of Degraded Womankind, you are doing a disservice to them and > also > > to the many many women (some of whom must be subscribers to this list) > who > > work in other parts of the sex trade -- exotic dancers, high-end > call-girls, > > dominatrices, nude housekeepers, pornographic models, hooters waitresses, > > etc. -- some of these people are my friends and i take it personally -- > and > > I think that their own struggles for better working conditions are not > > unrelated to the struggle against slavery in other parts of their bosses' > > businesses... > > > > -- but i'm sorry that i overreacted and became part of a litany of men > (all > > men! really! can it really be that there are no women here who work in > the > > sex trade??) who are all seemingly trying to justify the institution as > an > > institution. I am not trying to justify it, just trying to defend my > > friends who work there from the harsh judgments of their elders... > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Poetics List (UPenn, UB) [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > > Behalf Of Ruth Lepson > > Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 10:11 PM > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory > > > > but I don't believe either considering it labor or shame on women is > right. > > in a free society women cd dress any way they wanted not just in ways > > dictated by the society as sexy. > > > > > > On 1/8/09 8:22 PM, "Adam Tobin" wrote: > > > >> I did overstate the case a bit -- only because i thought your reaction > >> against The Poetry Brothel was itself overstated. Of course sex is > >> different from sewing. > >> > >> And sewing is different from mining, and mining is different from > >> picking cotton, etc. -- all of these industries have had -- and do > >> have -- their own slavery problems. And all of them have different > >> occupational hazards and terrible working conditions that need to be > >> addressed, and will only be addressed if the workers can bargain > >> collectively because the bosses are interested only in profits etc. etc. > > etc. > >> > >> I propose that a major reason that slavery persists in the sex > >> industry is that the labor movement has utterly ignored those workers, > >> largely because of the knee-jerk moralizing that is our culture's rote > >> response to any mention of sex-work. (and because it apparently takes > >> an involved argument to convince even well-meaning people that sex can > >> be considered work at > >> all.) > >> > >> (I may be the old-fashioned one here, calling for solidarity across > >> different types of work. But that old labor-movement ethic seems still > >> useful to me -- whereas the old > "shame-on-the-women-who-dress-like-whores" > >> ethic seems singularly counterproductive.) > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Poetics List (UPenn, UB) [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] > >> On Behalf Of Ruth Lepson > >> Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 11:04 PM > >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >> Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory > >> > >> I guess I must be 200 years old--does nobody else agree that it's > >> common sense that prostitution is essentially different from other kinds > > of 'work'? > >> > >> > >> On 12/23/08 10:00 PM, "Adam Tobin" wrote: > >> > >>> Why is the capitalist exploitation of women at a brothel worse than, > >>> say, the capitalist exploitation of women at a Zipper Factory? It's > >>> just a different kind of labor, no? Given that some artists are > >>> seemingly comfortable with capitalism, why should they not > >>> acknowledge it in the name of their ventures? > >>> > >>> I understand, of course, that brothels have a particular history with > >>> a particular kind of violence attached to it, but so do factories. > >>> Do you direct the same righteous anger at Andy Warhol? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Poetics List (UPenn, UB) [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] > >>> On Behalf Of Ruth Lepson > >>> Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 5:01 PM > >>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >>> Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory > >>> > >>> brothels about as funny as slavery. > >>> which British feminist? > >>> > >>> > >>> On 12/21/08 1:44 PM, "steve russell" wrote: > >>> > >>>> somewhat related: William Styron, the way he waxes his libido in > >>>> "Sophie's Choice." > >>>> i'm still looking for the book of essays by the British Feminist who > >>>> enlightened me. > >>>> > >>>> --- On Sat, 12/20/08, Ruth Lepson wrote: > >>>> From: Ruth Lepson > >>>> Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory > >>>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >>>> Date: Saturday, December 20, 2008, 6:51 PM > >>>> > >>>> cooptation of poetry by capitalist objectification of women. not > >>>> funny. to use a brothel as a metaphor is disgusting. I remember when > >>>> Denise Levertov criticized a poet for using napalm as a metaphor for > >>>> personal pain, saying you don't know what it feels like & it's much > >>>> worse than the way you are characterizing it. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On 12/19/08 4:15 PM, "mIEKAL aND" > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> New York poetry brothel tempts with verse > >>>>> > >>>>> Published: Friday December 19, 2008 > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> http://rawstory.com/news/afp/New_York_poetry_brothel_tempts_with_121 > >>>> 9 > >>>> 2 > >>>> 008.html > >>>>> > >>>>> The prostitute whispers, wets her lips and prepares to bare... her > >>>>> heart with a poem. > >>>>> > >>>>> Welcome to New York's Poetry Brothel, where punters delve between > >>>>> the lines, not the sheets. > >>>>> > >>>>> At a weekend session in a Manhattan night club called the Zipper > >>>>> Factory the look was bona fide bordello. > >>>>> > >>>>> Literary ladies of the night flitted between intimate, candle-lit > >>>>> nooks, red lights and paintings of nudes. > >>>>> > >>>>> Some of the poetesses for sale sported retro-style garter belts and > >>>>> frilly knickers. One swanned about in a top hat and feather boa. > >>>>> > >>>>> But transactions at the Poetry Brothel are of the mind, not the > >>>>> body, and a moment with the catalogue, replete with pictures and > >>>>> whimsical descriptions, reveals what's on offer. > >>>>> > >>>>> Page four boasts The Professor, swearing to have heard "the wail of > >>>>> your striving heart drifting over the spires of skyscrapers." > >>>>> > >>>>> Harriett Van Os on page 10 promises to "tell you secrets she > >>>> doesn't > >>>>> know she knows." Cecille Ballroom tempts punters on page 13 > >>>>> claiming she can "coax your drum." > >>>>> > >>>>> Gigolo poets are available, not least Poetry Brothel co-founder > >>>>> Nicholas Adamski, who goes by the name Tennessee Pink and tops > >>>>> tempestuous, dark looks with an eye patch. > >>>>> > >>>>> "Poetry is what I love more than anything," cooed The Madame, > >>>> the > >>>>> sultry spirit behind the whole idea. > >>>>> > >>>>> The Madame -- real name Stephanie Berger -- came dressed for the > >>>>> part in low-cut dress, elbow-length black gloves and a peacock > >> headdress. > >>>>> > >>>>> "I'd rather be in the bedroom hearing poetry than listening to > >>>> some > >>>>> old man sitting on a chair on a stage," she explained by the light > >>>>> of a guttering candle. > >>>>> > >>>>> One-on-one encounters, for which "clients" pay three to five > >>>> dollars > >>>>> in addition to a 15 dollar entry fee and one free reading, took > >>>>> place upstairs. > >>>>> > >>>>> The "whores" read from their own material, much of which is free > >>>>> verse, making for intense, sometimes baffling performances. > >>>>> > >>>>> But for those needing a break, the Poetry Brothel laid on flamenco > >>>>> guitarists, a fortune-teller, a blackjack table and a bar > >>>>> specializing in port and whisky > >>>>> > >>>>> The young hedonists, most of them students, appear to have struck a > >>>>> surprisingly successful formula. > >>>>> > >>>>> "There just aren't that many poetry readings where poets show a > >>>> lot of > >>>>> cleavage," said The Professor, otherwise known as Jennifer Michael > >>>>> Hecht, aged 43 and a real life professor at Manhattan's New School. > >>>>> > >>>>> She teaches writing to many of the Brothel's regulars and is proud > >>>>> of the result. > >>>>> > >>>>> "It's kind of like the Weimar Republic without the Nazis. At two > >>>> in > >>>>> the morning you have 20- or 30-year-olds lying all over the place > >>>>> reading poetry," she said. > >>>>> > >>>>> "The custom is to read poetry alone, but we know that from Homer > >>>>> onward, people read it aloud and in groups." > >>>>> > >>>>> By midnight the Zipper Factory was packed and getting fuller -- and > >>>>> rowdier. > >>>>> > >>>>> The fortune teller, bedecked in red scarf and blue plumes, mumbled > >>>>> to someone about "choppy waters." The flamenco duo strummed. The > >>>> Madame, > >>>>> yet another glass of port in hand, introduced poet "whores" in a > >>>> voice > >>>>> suggesting she appreciated more than their literary charms. > >>>>> > >>>>> When Patricia Smith, a well-established poet, took the mike to > >>>>> declaim a long and rhythmical poem about love and making love, > >>>>> there were rock concert cheers from the crowd. > >>>>> > >>>>> "I always shudder when I pray," Smith intoned in a mesmerizing > >>>> voice, > >>>>> "so your name must be a prayer." > >>>>> > >>>>> Even for these bohemians there's no escaping the economic crisis > >>>>> sweeping the country. > >>>>> > >>>>> One of the poets, 22-year-old Nina Cheng, was about to start a job > >>>>> at Bear Stearns this year when the bank collapsed. Now she is > >>>>> writing a play about the experience and applying for a playwright's > >>>>> course at Yale. > >>>>> > >>>>> "I'd thought I'd do banking and get into the arts when I > >>>> retired -- > >>>>> not this early," said Cheng, known at the Brothel as The Opium Eater. > >>>>> > >>>>> Another poetry prostitute, 27-year-old Rachel Herman-Gross, aka > >>>>> Simone, worried that crashing stock markets will pull the rug from > >>>>> under the arts scene. "It's going to be a lot harder. A lot of > >>>> artists > >>>>> are sustained by grants from people with money." > >>>>> > >>>>> But one enthusiastic "client" said the ingenuity of the Poetry > >>>> Brothel > >>>>> proves there are ways to survive. > >>>>> > >>>>> "Money's always been scarce for artists and they're very > >>>> resourceful > >>>>> people," said Edmund Voyer, 54, a hefty man described as an > >>>>> "evangelist" on his business card and who came to the Zipper > >>>> Factory > >>>>> wearing a kilt. > >>>>> > >>>>> His drinking companion, Jennifer Hoa, 27, agreed money and art > >>>>> would always find ways to meet. > >>>>> > >>>>> "I've been a sell-out for years as a corporate lawyer, but I come > >>>>> here," she said. "I can't suppress my artistic side." > >>>>> > >>>>> The Madame promised that the Poetry Brothel welcomed all. > >>>>> > >>>>> "Many are young men with perhaps a secret interest in poems," > >>>> she > >>>>> murmured. "Just look at the menu. Get a recommendation. Or say you > >>>>> don't care. Say: 'I need poetry. I'm hungry.'" > >>>>> > >>>>> ================================== > >>>>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > >>>> guidelines & > >>>>> sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > >>>> > >>>> ================================== > >>>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > >>>> guidelines & sub/unsub info: > >>>> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ================================== > >>>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > >>>> guidelines & sub/unsub info: > >>>> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > >>>> > >>> > >>> ================================== > >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > >>> guidelines & sub/unsub info: > >>> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > >>> > >>> ================================== > >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > >>> guidelines & sub/unsub info: > >>> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > >> > >> ================================== > >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: > >> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > >> > >> ================================== > >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: > >> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > ================================== > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines > > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > ================================== > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & > > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 03:35:20 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David Seaman Subject: Adam MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable This remark is interesting and courageous, in this context. It has =20 become dangerous to enter the dialogue. I have been surprised at how =20 long this debate has gone on, and it begins to resemble one of those =20 feuds that gets worse through responding rhetoric, further alienating =20= the conversants. One of the dangers of the internet, we can speak too =20= soon, and too rashly. (Been there, my Dutch friends.) Are we able to use any imagery at all? A holocaust of the mind, the =20 poetry brothel, a genocide of vegetables, a lasagne of literature, a =20 smoothie of symbolism. =93Epater les bourgeois!=94 Well, we seem to have = =20 done it. I think this discussion has gotten out of hand. I would love to use =20 my wife=92s breasts and my rising manhood in poetic imagery, and do it =20= without implicitly supporting sex slaves in Thailand. For me, all =20 poetry is about creativity, and all creativity is about sex, and all =20 sex is =85 well, you get the idea. Davoid= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 06:43:28 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David Giannini Subject: please post MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A D A S T R A P R E S S 16 Reservation Road . Easthampton . MA . 01027 ANNOUNCING: A Z T W O: Words of Travel poems by David Giannini DATE OF PUBLICATION: JANUARY 2009 ISBN 13: 978-0-9822495-0-5 5.5" x 8.5" paper wrapper 34 pages $18.00 CONTENTS: A suite of twenty-five poems inspired by the Sedona, Arizona = area and the Sinagua Indian culture that once thrived and mysteriously disappeared there. In these = poems there is history, humor, passion and love. EDITION: Limited to 220 copies. Handset Monotype Garamond type, = letterpress printed on archival quality Mohawk Superfine text, handsewn with a Classic Laid = Duplex recycled cover and illustrated with Sinagua Indian designs and petroglyphs, printed in = different hand-mixed colors. Who can prove we are not the spirits of this we move through? (from "Feel of the Desert") DISTRIBUTORS: Small Press Distribution 1-800-869-7553 (www.spdbooks.org) Amazon.com And: Directly from the Publisher (add $2.50 shipping) ABOUT THE AUTHOR DAVID GIANNINI is the author of over thirty poetry collections, most = recently How Else? (Longhouse Press) and Low-Tide Cards (Country Valley Press) and including Antonia & Clara = (Adastra 1992). - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - = - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Order Form AZ TWO: Words of Travel by David Giannini Send ____ copy(ies) at $18.00 each plus $2.50 shipping, for a total of = $_________ Ship To: Mail order and payment (institutions may invoice) to: ADASTRA PRESS . 16 Reservation Road . Easthampton . MA 01027 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 06:50:04 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: John Cunningham Subject: Re: On Health, Holiness, Beauty and Poetry In-Reply-To: <829611.47609.qm@web46216.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you, Troy, for this rather detailed overview on theology. There = are a couple of points with which I take exception. Being a Buddhist/Taoist, I take exception to your use of the word = 'holy'. I would much rather see the word 'spiritual' used as, in my mind, 'holy' = is, in fact, a divisive word - something which, in opposition to, is one of = the main themes of your expurgation.=20 Another is your discussion of Christianity. Unfortunately, in all things verging on the spiritual, the original message of the originator is corrupted once it gets into the hands of man. This is true even of = Buddhism where a religion was created where none was intended. The philosophy of Buddhism and Taoism is intended to act on an individual basis although = the concept of the sangha may create confusion. However, when the sangha is considered as a spiritual body there to support the individual in their quest for nirvana (nirbbana), then the individual remains paramount. Finally, your use of the term 'postmodern'. If we accept Foucault's = concept of the rupture and his adoption of the terms 'epoch' as areas in which = new conceptions of old concepts has occurred, then 'modernism' is just an extension, the dying breath, of romanticism. Therefore, the correct term should be 'post-romantic'. Just some random thoughts. John Herbert Cunningham -----Original Message----- From: Poetics List (UPenn, UB) [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Troy Camplin Sent: January-09-09 11:25 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: On Health, Holiness, Beauty and Poetry In English the words holy, whole, hale, and health are etymologically connected =96 Old English halig, hal, and h=E6lth, respectively, which = are all related to hal. Thus are they conceptually connected. To see the world = as holy is to see the world as whole =96 it is to have the world =93appear = infinite and holy, whereas it now appears finite and corrupt=94 (William Blake, = =93The Marriage of Heaven and Hell=94). The word holistic comes from the Greek = holos, whole. Thus the holy is holistic =96 God is holy because He encompasses = all. Perhaps one could even say that we can recognize the divine only when we come to see the world as a whole, when we see the universe as universal. When we can come To see a World in a grain of sand, And a Heaven in a wild flower, Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand, And Eternity in an hour. (William Blake, =93Auguries of Innocence=94) Health and hale is the same. To have health is to have wholeness. To be = hale is to be healthy =96 whole and complete. To make healthy is to make = whole again. One is healed through medication. But ideally, one would rather maintain one=92s health than have to withstand the ravages of medication (pharmaceutical comes from the Greek pharmakon, which means both poison = and medicine =96 as it does today), though medication is necessary to stave = off disease. This is the purpose of Plato=92s Pharmakon, to stave off = disease. For disease is the opposite of health. The Modern Era, which we are still in, though we may be at the end of = it, began when Descartes split man in two =96 body and soul. It was a = necessary division for the development of modern science (which Descartes all but admits to =96 the division is so the Church will tend to the soul, while = the body is left alone, to be tended to by scientists such as Descartes), = but it was certainly an unholy division (as all divisions are, by definition). = Kant deepened this division. Hegel tried to mend it through philosophical synthesis. Marx tried to mend it by recommending the overthrow of half = of the world =96 the world would then be wholly Proletarian. Nietzsche = responded to Hegel by dividing the world up even more =96 for him, humans are not divided into body and soul, but are instead a series of masks. With postmodernism, the division is complete: men and women, = multiculturalism, radical Cartesian individualism divide us up more and more. Any = universality is denied. A necessary development =96 and not without its truth (I am = aware of the irony of using the word truth, which comes from the Old English = treowth, related to the word troth, from which we get the word betrothed, to = speak of an idea that is more interested in divorce than betrothal). But it is precisely as unholy as one can get. The deep divisions fostered by postmodernism came about because of a = view that grand narratives, attempts to universalize, and seeing the world as holistic created the problems of the 20th Century. The Marxist grand narrative gave us the gulag of the Soviet Union, the massacres of the = Khmer Rouge in Cambodia, and any number of other slaughters done by = governments who had embraced Marxist philosophy. We looked back on history after the Holocaust, saw the grand narrative of Christianity had in the past = itself promoted the killing of Jews =96 particularly in the Inquisition =96 and concluded that it too was dangerous. One could also mention The Terror = of the French Revolution. What did Marxism, Medieval Christianity, and the French Revolution have in common? One thing was that they were all grand narratives. Thus, the logic goes, it must be grand narratives which are = bad. And what do grand narratives do? They see the world as a whole, which = must be encompassed by their ideology. To make the world a whole, it must be = placed under their one ideology. Thus, holistic world views were seen as bad = =96 thus were they, and holiness, rejected. The path to Heaven =96 whether that = heaven was celestial or earthly =96 seemed to lead us straight into Hell. = Perhaps in part the rejection of holding a holistic view came about because it is related to the holy, and the holy has been rejected. To the extent that wisdom is the ability to see the unity of the world =96 meaning wisdom = is the ability to see the world as holy =96 wisdom was also rejected as = impossible, perhaps even undesirable. The error in this way of thinking derives from the error made in seeing Communism, Christianity, or the ideals of the French Revolution as interested in seeing the world as holistic. None of them saw the world = as holistic, as holy =96 they instead wanted to make the world whole, under = their particular umbrellas. They too fostered divisions =96 there were enemies = who had to be either converted or killed in order that the world could be = made holy. =93For the cherub with his flaming sword is hereby commanded to = leave his guard at tree of life; and when he does, the whole creation will be consumed and appear infinite and holy=94 (Blake =93The Marriage of = Heaven and Hell=94). Now Blake here uses the word =93appear.=94 None of them saw = the world as holy. It had to be made so =96 through conflagration, if necessary. = Postmodern thought, by dividing the world even more, does not help us to see the = world as holy =96 quite the contrary. However, by insisting on equality among the various parts =96 among individuals, among cultures, = among religions, among any number of groups of individuals =96 postmodern = thought may ironically make it now possible to see the world as being, rather = than needing to become, holy. It may seem ironic to suggest that only by reaching the most severe of divisions =96 seeing the world as eminently unholy =96 that we can = finally come to see that the world is in fact holy, but I am not being ironic. To see = the world as holy is not to see everything in the world as equal in an egalitarian sense. There are hierarchies. To see the world as holy is to understand how everything fits into the world as a whole. It is to see = the world as an immense organism, and to care for its health. An organism is made up of systems, organs, tissues, cells, organelles, and various biochemicals. For one group to want to envelop the entire world in one = way of thinking, believing, viewing the world, would be the same as one cell wanting to envelop the entire organism in that one type of cell. We have = a word for cells that want to do that: cancer. The postmodernists have mistaken viewing the actions of cancerous cells for seeing the whole organism. Cancer must be fought, not mistaken for the animal it is in. That is the only way = one can have a healthy organism =96 and it is the only way to have a holy = world.. Like a healthy organism, a holy world is complex. Like a healthy = organism, a holy world has smoothly working parts in communication with each other through clear rules that proscribe what each part needs to do for the = whole to work well. Like a healthy organism, this cannot come from any = centralized authority =96 there is no one control cell in the body, and the brain = must have the lungs just as much as the lungs must have the brain. A holy = world is like a healthy organism. In Negative Theology, one comes to know what God is by figuring out what = God is not. Aristotle says that if you are not sure if something is good, = try to figure out what is bad, and you can then deduce that what is good is its opposite.=20 The following are unhealthy: 1. Overeating, including eating a high percentage of foods with low nutritional value, while remaining inactive (not exercising) 2. Either stagnation or change without continuity =96 both create = instability 3. Stress and anxiety =96 which comes about from not realizing that = there are parts of the world that one cannot control, and can lead to anger at = those very things 4. Hatred =96 aside from raising the blood pressure, it can cause one to = act in ways that would be unhealthy for the object of our hatred 5. Cancer =96 already discussed 6. Excess =96 including the excess of moderation 7. Shackles =96 prevents sufficient movement, equating to lack of = exercise 8. Pollution =96 it can lead to any number of diseases 9. An overly-clean environment =96 it can prevent our immune systems = from developing properly, making us more susceptible to diseases, especially autoimmune diseases 10. Suicide =96 inherently and obviously unhealthy 11. Isolation =96 loneliness can lead to depression, which depresses the immune system=20 12. Ignorance =96 either of the world or of oneself, as one cannot = maintain one=92s health if one is ignorant of what can harm it or improve it This leads one to posit the following are healthy: 1. Exercise, with a diet proper to the amount of exercise and of high nutritional value 2. Change with continuity 3. Realizing that there are parts of the world that one cannot control, = thus reducing stress and anxiety 4. Love 5. Keeping the body in hierarchical harmony 6. Moderation in everything, including moderation =96 remembering that moderation is an extreme in the same way that life is an extreme state = of organic chemistry 7. Freedom =96 remembering that freedom does not equate to a lack of = rules, but is rather what is achieved through playing by the best rules 8. Cleanliness (which, as the saying goes, is next to Godliness, meaning = it is holy) 9. A non-sanitized world =96 a world without dirt is a world that makes unhealthy organisms 10. Love of one=92s own life 11. Friends 12. Knowledge =96 including self-knowledge One can make a similar list of what makes for a healthy mind: 1. Taking in healthy information =96 good art, music, literature, = philosophy, the sciences, etc. =96 with sufficient exercise of the mind through = thought, discussion, and writing 2. Change with continuity 3.. Realizing that there are parts of the world that one cannot control, thus reducing stress and anxiety, which can negatively affect the mind = as well as the body 4. Love 5. Having a variety of inputs =96 obsession with one thing alone is a = kind of mental cancer 6. Moderation in everything, including moderation =96 moderation of = reading, of rigorous thought, sexual thoughts, work, play, physical activity, = etc. 7. Freedom of thought =96 we must not think in shackles, but with = flexible rules 8. Cleanliness of thought =96 this does not necessarily mean what it has traditionally meant in the West, though it can certainly contain some elements; thinking about sex is in and of itself not unclean 9. Realization that we do not and cannot live in a sanitized world, as = that stops thought and creativity 10. Love of thinking 11. Friends =96 as Aristotle says in Rhetoric, =93a wide circle of = friends, a virtuous circle of friends,=94 and, I would add, a mentally stimulating = circle of friends 12. Knowledge =96 including self knowledge =96 with the goal of wisdom A holy world is one that parallels the healthy body and the healthy = mind, and will have the above qualities, including moderation in everything, including moderation (i.e., it will be a just world), freedom (this is freedom from, not freedom to), love, friendship, and beauty. A holy = world is a beautiful world, both having variety in unity, unity in variety, complexity, and fluid hierarchy that is self-similar regardless of = scale. All of the parts, living in love and friendship (which does not exclude healthy competition, such as we find in sports and in free trade), = living in a complex dynamic with each other, living as individuals in various communities, many of which overlap and are nested within other = communities, must be self-similar to have a holy world. In Greek, to kalon means the beautiful, but it can also mean the = honorable or the noble =96 and kala can mean either things that are beautiful or = things that are morally good. In the Rhetoric, Aristotle says that =93Now kalon describes whatever, through being chosen for itself, is praiseworthy or whatever, through being good [agathon], is pleasant because it is good [agathon]. If this, then, is the kalon, then virtue is necessarily = kalon; for it is praiseworthy because of being good [agathon]=94 (79). Elaine = Scarry points out that in English too, there is a connection between beauty and = the good (the just), when she points out that to say that something is fair = is to say that it is either beautiful or that it is just. In Greek and in English, the beautiful and the good are connected. If a holy world is a beautiful world, it is a good and just world as well. As Heraclitus = said, =93For god all things are fair and just, but men have taken some things = as unjust, others as just=94 (LXVIII). The key here is that we see the = world itself as just =96 not the actions of each and every individual. The = world is itself justified and cannot itself be unjust. This is consistent with = the teachings of any religion that sees the world as having been created by = God or the gods =96 how could a fair and just god create a world that was = itself unjust? And if theistic religions are rejected, how can the world itself possibly be unjust? To say it is unjust is to give it anthropomorphic qualities. It is people who have taken some things as being just, others = as unjust =96 but the world itself is self-justified. Those who do not see = the world as just are those who do not see the world as holy =96 often they = are the same people who think the only way the world can be justified is if = the world is made holy through the transformation of it into a perfect = mirror of themselves. But we have seen that a world made up of only one world view is a cancerous world =96 and the world, as a cancerous = organism, will die. An organism cannot consist of one type of cell =96 that is the unhealthiest of organisms. And a world having only one world view is the unhealthiest of worlds. In the same way that a healthy body consists of = a variety of cells that are variations of the same theme coded by = identical DNA, a healthy world consists of a variety of peoples that are = variations of the same themes coded for by our being human and sharing the same = cultural universals.=20 Beauty is also related to health =96 as we can see in the beauty we find = in nature. Healthy plants produce the most beautiful flowers. Healthy = peacocks produce the largest, most symmetrical, most colorful feathers. Healthy gobies and other territorial reef fish have the brightest colors. All of this natural beauty is the advertisement of health to the opposite sex. = The healthiest human bodies (neither overweight nor super model thin) are = the most beautiful. Thus is there also a relationship between health, = beauty, and sex. If beauty can thus be equated to health, we can see that beauty = is again equated to the holy. And we can see too that sex in-and-of-itself = is and cannot be unholy, as it is connected (but not equivalent) to beauty. = A holy world is a whole world. It is a healthy world. It is a good and = just world. It is a complex world. It is a world of individuals in community. = It is a beautiful world. But is it a possible world? I have already given = the answer: the world is itself already holy. We just have to learn to see = it as holy. That is how we will heal the world. And, as we do, we will become = less and less likely to want or try to eliminate those who disagree with us = =96 until we are all in agreement on this one issue, as all the cells in an organism are in agreement on the one issue that they must work together = for the health of the whole, even as each performs its own function. Thus, = the world will become more and more holy in our eyes. In works of tragedy, = nomos (convention, human law, naming; from which we get the words nomad and nomenclature, and which is the changing and changeable aspect of the = world) comes into conflict with physis (or nature; from which we get the word physics). That is the position we are now in. When we get nomos to = map onto physis (Heraclitus calls this conjunction logos =96 which can be translated as saying, speech, discourse, word, account, explanation, = reason, principle, collection, enumeration, ratio, proportion), we will see the world as it truly is: holy. On the Holy Where lies the holy in the modern world? It lies in Blake=92s world in a grain of sand =96 It lies, and lies like the truth, in patterns Like self-organized rings of rocks barren Arctic fields create. It lies in the branch Of every tree and species, leafing out From the known into the unknown. It lies In every song, painting and rhythmic verse. We have looked at every leaf and petal, At the bark and at the wood, every cell And strand of DNA is now known =96 And we have forgotten that all of this Was once a tree that gave us shade and filled The air with delicate sweetness and held The grains of sand against its roots to hold The ground in place, even as that ground moves And changes in tiny ways we refuse To see. In this we can see the holy. This is where it lies, now and forever, On the edge of order and wild chaos, Where the infinite holds in the finite, Where we, ourselves holy, have always lived. Troy Camplin =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check = guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 06:05:05 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Eric Hoffman Subject: Oppen quote - help! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please help! I'm trying to locate the source of the following passage from = one of=A0Oppen's Daybooks or Papers, published in Sulfur, Conjunctions, Iow= a Review, Germ, Jubilat or Ironwood?=A0 I don't think it's included in Cope= 's book . . . =0A=0A=A0=A0 "Clarity for my sake. That I may understand my l= ife."=0A=A0=0A=A0=A0=A0 Thank you in advance! =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 16:29:37 +0200 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Eir=?UTF-8?B?w60=?=kur =?UTF-8?B?w5Y=?=rn Nor=?UTF-8?B?w7A=?=dahl Subject: Re: Prostitution in Sweden In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable It's not all roses though - as far as I know this has caused alot of problems - i.e. as the prostitute is no longer a criminal, but still a part of the "game", she or he becomes a threat to the rest of the players, as sh= e or he can at any time run to the police, snitch on everyone and get off scott-free - and in the underground world threats tend to become neutralized: i.e. prostitution in Sweden has a tendency to be eastern european women locked up in hotel rooms without any connection to the outside world (as in the Lukas Moodyson film, Lilja 4ever). Which is not a good thing.=20 And as far as I know, it's not only the customer but also the pimp or agent or any third party which stands to benefit from the prostitution. On 1/11/09 6:40 AM, "Ruth Lepson" wrote: > goddess bless you for sending this & bless sweden. >=20 >=20 > On 1/10/09 6:15 PM, "steve russell" wrote: >=20 >> some info from wikipedia: >> =C2=A0 >> Sweden considers prostitution a form of Violence against Women. >> Only the customer is prosecuted. >>=20 >> as for male prostitutes, the same rules apply. >> the customer is held in contempt. >>=20 >> this, i suppose, would discourage pimps, brothels, et cetera. >> as far as i can tell, Sweden has the most enlightened approach towards t= he >> world's "oldest >> proffession." >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guideli= nes & >> sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html --=20 www.norddahl.org Eir=C3=ADkur =C3=96rn Nor=C3=B0dahl Fleminginkatu 9A 10 00530 Helsinki Finland =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 15:12:45 -0500 Reply-To: az421@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Rob McLennan Subject: [amanda_earl@storm.ca: AngelHousePress Essay Series, # 1] hi all, the first in the series is up on Angelhousepress.com under Essays. the essay was written by rob mclennan, whose poetry appears in the first issue of experiment-o. the essay concerns "house, a tiny memoir", a work in progress. AngelHousePress will be publishing selections from this collection in the near future. enjoy! Amanda -- writer/editor/publisher ...STANZAS mag, above/ground press & Chaudiere Books (www.chaudierebooks.com) ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...13th poetry coll'n - The Ottawa City Project ...novel - white www.abovegroundpress.blogspot.com * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 16:49:35 -0800 Reply-To: storagebag001@yahoo.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Alexander Jorgensen Subject: STEEL PUDDING anthology gives voice to African-American life in Gary, Indiana at 3rd Saturday Coffeehouse Jan. 17th MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable om: Diane Scott Subject: STEEL PUDDING anthology gives voice to African-American life in Ga= ry, Indiana at 3rd Saturday Coffeehouse Jan. 17th To: "Diane Scott" Date: Sunday, January 11, 2009, 9:06 PM =20 =20 =A0=20 An Open Mic for Poets, Musicians, Storytellers & Other Performers! 3rd Saturday Coffeehouse: =20 An Open Mic at Unity Temple in Oak Park=20 Sponsored by The Unity Temple Unitarian Universalist Congregation Mark Your Calendar! It's always the 3rd Saturday of the month at Unity Temple, =20 875 Lake Street,=A0 in Downtown Oak Park=20 THIS MONTH'S FEATURE:=20 Saturday, Jan. 17, 2009=20 =A0=20 Writers from Gary, Indiana, reading from=20 STEEL PUDDING anthology=20 =A0=20 =A0=20 =A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Join us on Saturday, January 17th as we listen to the creative voices of writers from Gary, Indiana at 3rd Saturday Coffeehouse Open Mic Night. =93Steel Pudding=94 anthology was created from a writing workshop le= d by well-known poet and teacher Sterling D. Plumpp, and sponsored by the Gar= y Historical and Cultural Society, founded by Dharathula H. =93Dolly=94 Mille= nder. =20 =A0=20 =93Steel Pudding=94 presents stories and poems reflecting the diversity of the city of Gary, wi= th contemporary urban, rural and African-American themes. Listen to stories of racial pride, love, racism, sharecropping, spiritual renewal and awakening, with Gary=92s unique steel industry and history as a background. Writers reading= their work include Naomi Millender, =A0Isaac Preston III, Kposivi Clark, Maggie Dell McClain, =A0Adlee Hodges, =A0and Larry Collins, =A0with GHCS founder Dolly Millender available to answer questions. =20 =A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Join us at Unity Temple, 875 Lake Street (at Kenilworth), Oak Park. 7:30 sign up, 8 pm Open = Mic, 9 pm featured performer. Open Mic is limited to 5 minutes. Charlie Rossiter host. We are acoustic--no equipment provided. $3-$5 donation. Wheelchair accessible. Info at 708-660-9376. =20 ____________=20 =A0=A0 =20 UPCOMING FEATURES:=20 =A0=20 Feb. 21 - poets Al DeGenova (publisher of AfterHours journal) & Jared Smith (trekking from the Colorado Rockies to bring poetry to his old stomping grounds)=20 Mar. 21 - singer/songwriter Carol Williams=20 April 18--Susan Firer, poet laureate of Milwaukee (poetry month)=20 =A0=20 ______=20 DIRECTIONS:=20 From Chicago take the I-290 exit at Austin, go north to Lake and west to Kenilworth From the West take the I-290 exit at Harlem Ave, go north to Lake and east to Kenilworth With the el, exit the Green Line at Oak Park Ave, go north to Lake Ave; west to Kenilworth Parking--there's lots of street parking.=20 Also a village lot at Oak Park & North Blvd., and another at Lake Street & Forest.=20 Need more info: 708-660-9376.=20 We hope you can join us, and please forward this note to interested others.= =20 =A0=20 If you would like to be taken off of our monthly email list,=A0or are receivin= g multiple emails, please hit reply and let me know.=20 =A0=20 ---=20 =20 http://www.blackrobertjournal.blogspot.com =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 17:49:23 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Catherine Daly Subject: Fwd: [WOM-PO] CFP: UCLA indigenous connections In-Reply-To: <496A2FD20200005400047663@GwD1.wlu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Please spread widely, and thank you. dm CALL FOR SUBMISSIONS: "Spiraled Connections" 40 Years of Indigenous Journeys at UCLA The American Indian Studies Center is seeking poetry submissions for a fortieth-anniversary anthology commem=ACorating its forty years of publishing books by and about Native peoples. We envision this anthology as a collection of materials by Indigenous poets directly connected to UCLA in the past forty years and those they have mentored or influ=ACenced. Our aim is to illustrate and celebrate the ways that Native people present at the core of the American Indian educational movement have radiated their innovation and empowerment out to the community in all directions. Submissions do not have to be education-oriented. Deadline: February 1, 2009 WHO CAN SUBMIT: Indigenous poets (having origin in any of the original peoples of North America and who maintain cultural identification through tribal affiliation or community recognition) connected in some way to UCLA (alumni, former/current professor/undergraduate/graduate/staff, folks previously published in AICRJ or other American Indian Studies Center publications) and those they have mentored or influenced. WHAT TO SUBMIT: Up to five poems (single spaced), not to exceed a total of ten typed pages. We are open to all poetic styles and forms. Poems in your Indigenous language will be considered but you must also provide English translation with your submission. What have we become in these past forty years of American Indian scholarship, education, community, intellectual, creative and academic adventure? Who have we become, who have we touched, how have we grown, transformed, helped each other, learned to negotiate the academy, our multiple roles and lives? How can we, as poets, express this Indigenous journey? SUBMISSION GUIDELINES: Please include name, email, phone, address, and a brief bio along with your submis=ACsions. While unpublished pieces are preferred, previously published material will be considered. If something has been previously published, please let us know where and when it was published, and whether you have the rights to your own material. HOW TO SUBMIT: Inquiries can be directed to Deborah Miranda: mirandad@wlu.edu. Deadline: February 1, 2009. Please send submissions with an SASE for response to: Deborah Miranda English Department Washington and Lee University 204 W. Washington St. Lexington, VA 24450 ABOUT THE EDITOR: Deborah Miranda is an Esselen/Chumash poet and scholar, currently an associate professor of English at Washington and Lee University in Lexington, Virginia, where she teaches creative writing, literature, and composition. She has published two poetry collections, Indian Cartography and The Zen of La Llorona; projects forthcoming are Bad Indians: A Tribal Memoir, and Written on the Bark of Trees: Praise Poems. _____________________________________________________ Deborah A. Miranda Associate Professor, English Washington and Lee University Lexington, VA 24450-2116 "In a time of destruction, create something. A poem. A parade. A community. A vow. A moral principal. One peaceful moment." -- Maxine Hong Kingston, _The Fifth Book of Peace_. --=20 All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly@gmail.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 18:45:48 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jim Andrews Subject: Microsoft Songsmith MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit apologies: i have no control over the cheese slider: http://research.microsoft.com/songsmith sing into a microphone or play an instrument into it and this product of microsoft research apparently helps you create a song from it. i haven't tried it out yet myself. just watched the video and read some propaganda. to judge from the video, 'the future looks dreadful'. the actual music in the promo video truly is dreadful. just dreadful. but the concept is kind of interesting. but they should tone it down on the cheese slider. or is it made of cheese? is it cheese all over it like ugly on an ape? or is it more a matter of what is easy? cheese is relatively easy, isn't it, which is part of what we object to in its cheesiness: it's predictable, easily automated style. ja? ps: i've linked to it at http://vispo.com/misc/ia.htm , which is my page of annotated links to works of interactive audio. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 06:20:08 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Amanda Earl Subject: AngelHousePress Essay Series Comments: To: smallpressers@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20090108.213054.3060.30.skyplums@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed the first in a new series of essays written by contributors is up on Angelhousepress.com under Essays. the essay was written by rob mclennan, whose poetry appears in the first issue of experiment-o. the essay concerns "house, a tiny memoir", a work in progress. AngelHousePress will be publishing selections from this collection in the near future. enjoy! Amanda www.angelhousepress.com www.experiment-o.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 08:27:28 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Tim Peterson Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Adam! Ruth! Two of my dearest friends...it makes me feel terrible to see you guys fighting like this! The Poetry Brothel is not worth getting this upset about. Let's all kick back in my living room with a mug of coco and listen to Gloria Steinheim records backwards. How about this evening? Love, Tim Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 23:49:49 -0500 From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory twisting my words! so writing about objections to prostitution does nothing, huh--so words don't matter? I think all those jobs are degrading. I wd like to defend yr friends by getting them better jobs. I am not criticizing these women. Better working conditions wd be not having to succumb to male ideas of sexuality in our culture, such narrow constraints. On 1/9/09 5:49 PM, "Adam Tobin" wrote: > but you were the one crying shame! on the women of the Poetry Brothel! for > dressing like whores! > > (please note that I am NOT arguing that prostitution is not a sexist > institution. clearly it is. and i agree that it is part of a complex of > normative heterosexuality that does terrible violence to all women. But as > for the actual women who are living in actual slavery, i think complaining > about the symbolic degrading of womankind does nothing for them: it's like > trying to improve the safety of coal mines by complaining about climate > change. > > And if you're just using those women (who are very real, and many of them > living in absolutely horrific situations, as you rightly pointed out) as > symbols of Degraded Womankind, you are doing a disservice to them and also > to the many many women (some of whom must be subscribers to this list) who > work in other parts of the sex trade -- exotic dancers, high-end call-girls, > dominatrices, nude housekeepers, pornographic models, hooters waitresses, > etc. -- some of these people are my friends and i take it personally -- and > I think that their own struggles for better working conditions are not > unrelated to the struggle against slavery in other parts of their bosses' > businesses... > > -- but i'm sorry that i overreacted and became part of a litany of men (all > men! really! can it really be that there are no women here who work in the > sex trade??) who are all seemingly trying to justify the institution as an > institution. I am not trying to justify it, just trying to defend my > friends who work there from the harsh judgments of their elders... > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 08:38:57 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Steve Halle Subject: John Beer @ Seven Corners MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Start the week off right: check out new poems by *John Beer* at *Seven Corners* ( http://www.sevencornerspoetry.blogspot.com/). Best, Steve Halle editor ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 09:52:14 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Dan Wilcox Subject: Third Thursday Poetry Night -- Nicole Karas, Open Mic Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed the Poetry Motel Foundation presents Third Thursday Poetry Night at the Social Justice Center 33 Central Ave., Albany, NY Thursday, January 15, 2009 7:00 sign up; 7:30 start Featured Poet: Nicole Karas Nicole Karas has written poetry since she first laid her hands on a =20 salt and pepper composition notebook in elementary school. She is =20 excited about the Albany poetry scene and the people involved in it. -- with open mic for community poets before & after the feature: =20 $3.00 donation, suggested; more if you got it, less if you can=92t. =20 Your hopeful host: Dan Wilcox. (here's a tiny taste of Nicole's poetry as a teaser) i am a delicious mess right now. all visceral and bone and gristle. all hair and sashay and confusion. blurry. you can't catch me. there i go. NK 8/10/08 =20= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 16:05:39 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Martha King Subject: Joan Silber & Mike DeCapite read NYC 2-5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline *=A5** P R O S E P R O S S E R I E S at the T E L E P H O N E G R I L= L* *=A5*** * * *JOAN SILBER** **and** **MIKE DeCAPITE* * * *Two urban veterans with vastly different angles on urban life* * * *Thursday, February 5, 2009, 6:30 [boldly prompt!] to 8:30* * * The Telephone Bar & Grill =96 149 Second Avenue btw 9th & 10th Streets All trains to Union Square, 6 to Astor Place, F to Second Avenue * * *JOAN SILBER** *sixth book* The Size of the World (W.W. Norton 2008) *is garnering great reviews and even better word of mouth-- ironically delightful for a book that hinges on seeing the quotidian in the "exotic" world. As the* New York Times Book Review* put it: *"*Slowly, almost while your attention is somewhere else, the intensity level rises. And rises. Notes sounded softly in the early stories deepen and resonate, until Silber's quiet music has turned symphonic." * *** The author of five previous books, including, *Ideas of Heaven: A Ring of Stories*, and *Household Words*, Silber's novels and short prose have becom= e well-known for their precision and passion =96 qualities that enable her to explore some of horrors of contemporary life with deft command. And she's a wonderful reader*. * *MIKE DeCAPITE's** *work first appeared in the three issues of *CUZ *magazi= ne published in 1988 and 1989. His first novel, *Through the Windshield**,* gathered notoriety in the ten years it was passed around in manuscript before DeCapite published it himself, through his Sparkle Street Books, in 1998. Harvey Pekar, reviewing the book for the *Austin Chronicle**,* called it "one of the best American novels of the last several years." *Rain Taxi* ra= n an appreciation of the book by Jocko Weyland early last year. DeCapite's story "Sitting Pretty" was published as a *CUZ* Edition in 1999, and selected for *The Italian American Reader**,* published by HarperCollins in 2003. In 2003 and 2004, he wrote a monthly personal-observation column for = * angle** *magazine called "Radiant Fog." He's since completed a second novel, *Ruined for Life!,* an excerpt of which can be read at *3:AM* magazi= ne online. After twelve years in San Francisco, DeCapite moved back to Brookly= n in 2005. * * * * NEXT UP: March 5th the readers are *The Brooklyn Rail*'s film critic David Wilentz and founding member of *Ed's Redeeming Qualities*, novelist Dani Leone, writing as L. E. Leone. Save the date! The readings take place in the comfortable backroom Lounge of the Telephone Bar, serving fine vegetarian and carnivore fare, and all usual liquids. Admission is free, but we pass the hat. All proceeds go to the readers. The series is curated by Martha King and Elinor Nauen, and offers prose reading= s usually on the first Thursday of the month, from September through June. For more information or to be added to (or dropped from) the e-mail list, contact *Elinor@ElinorNauen.com *or* gpwitd@aol.com* =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 09:30:07 -0800 Reply-To: amyhappens@yahoo.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: amy king Subject: Stain of Poetry: A Reading Series -- January's Stars! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable COMING UP - Stain of Poetry: A Reading Series =A0 January 30th @ 7 p.m. - Stain Bar - Williamsburg, Brooklyn =A0 *Bill Berkson, Cindy Cruz, Aaron Fagan, Jennifer Fortin, Jean-Paul Pecqueur and Bill Rasmovicz* =A0 * Hosted by Amy King and Ana Bozicevic =A0 ~~~~ =A0 Bill Berkson was born in New York in 1939. A poet, critic, teacher, and sometime curator, he moved to Northern California in 1970 and during the next decade edited a series of little magazines and books under the Big Sky imprint. From 1984 to 2008 he was a professor of Liberal Arts at the San Francisco Art Institute. He is a corresponding edit= or for Art in America and has contributed reviews and essays to such other journals as Aperture, Artforum, Works on Paper and Modern Painters. His recent books of poetry include Gloria (in a deluxe limited edition with etchings by Alex Katz), Ou= r Friends Will Pass Among You Silently, and Goods and Services. Other books include a collection of his criticism, The Sweet Singer of Modernism & Other Art Writings: 1985-2003; Sudden Address: Selected lectures 1981-2006;= an epistolary collaboration with Bernadette Mayer entitled What=92s Your Idea = of a Good Time?: Interviews & Letters 1977-1985. His Portrait and Dream: New & Selected Poems will appear form Coffee House Press in 2009. Berkson was the 2006 Distinguished Mellon Fellow at the Skowhegan School of Painting an= d Sculpture and received the 2008 Goldie for Literature from the San Francisc= o Bay Guardian. He now lives in New York and San Francisco. =A0 ~~~ =A0 Cynthia Cruz is the author of RUIN, published by Alice James Books in 2006. Her poems have been published or are forthcoming in the Amer= ican Poetry Review, Paris Review, Boston Review, AGNI, FIELD, and others and are anthologized in =93The Iowa Anthology of New American Poetries.=94 She has = received fellowships to YADDO and the MacDowell Colony. She lives in Greenpoint, Brooklyn and teaches at Sarah Lawrence College. =A0 ~~~ =A0 Aaron Fagan was born in Rochester, New York, in 1973. His poems have appeared in numerous magazines including The Americ= an Poetry Review, TriQuarterly, and The Yale Review. He is the author of Garag= e (Salt Publishing, 2007), a debut collection which the critic Harold Bloom described as =93vivid and aesthetically disturbing work. His promise is considerable because his originality should prove to be decisive.=94 A form= er Assistant Editor for Poetry, he is now a Copy Editor for Scientific America= n in New York City and lives in the Bronx. =A0 =A0 ~~~ =A0 Jennifer H. Fortin lives in Brooklyn. She works as an Assistant. In May 2008, she obtained an M.F.A. in Poetry fr= om The New School. Her work has appeared in TYPO, GlitterPony, Left Facing Bir= d, The Goucher Quarterly, AbroadView magazine and Ducts; it is forthcoming in Court Green, Action, Yes and Copper Nickel. She was a Finalist for the Poet= ry Foundation=92s 2008 Ruth Lilly Fellowship and the recipient of an Honorable Mention in the 2008 Poets & Writers-sponsored Amy Awards. Fortin is happy to be able to say she is a Returned Peace Corps Volunteer (Bulgaria 2004-20= 06). =A0 ~~~ =A0 Jean-Paul Pecqueur=92s first book, The Case Against Happiness, was published by Alice James Books in 2006. New poems have recently appeare= d in The Hat, Cranky, and Gulf Coast. Jean-Paul currently lives in Brooklyn, teaching writing at the Pratt Institute. =A0 ~~~ =A0 Bill Rasmovicz has served as a literary excursion leader and workshop co-leader throughout Italy, Croatia, Slovenia, Switzerland and Wales. His work has appeared in Hotel Amerika, Nimrod, Third Coast and other magazines. His first book, =93The World in Place of Itself=94 was published in 2007 by Alice James Books and was also the 2008 recipient of t= he New England Poetry Club=92s Sheila Margaret Motton Prize. =A0 ~~~ =A0 stain 766 grand street brooklyn, ny 11211 (L train to Grand Street, 1 block west) 718/387-7840 open daily @ 5 p.m. =A0 =A0 Hope to see you there! =A0 Amy and Ana http://stainofpoetry.wordpress.com/ =A0 _______ =A0 =A0 Recent work http://www.writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/King.html =A0 Amy's Alias http://amyking.org/ =A0 =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 10:54:13 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Kyle Schlesinger Subject: getting ON Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thanks to all who came out for the ON launch at the Poetry Project last Monday. Copies sold out fast, and I should have announced that they are available at SPD @ http://spdbooks.org/details.asp?BookID=98128 ON: CONTEMPORARY PRACTICE is a compilation of twenty-one essays by poets about poets of their approximate generation. The editorial emphasis is on works that that investigate a poetics. Contributors include Taylor Brady on Yedda Morrison, CAConrad and Brenda Iijima on CAConrad and Brenda Iijima, Jen Hofer and Sawako Nakayasu on Jen Hofer and Sawako Nakayasu, Alan Gilbert on CJ/Rupture, Andrew Levy on Arakawa and Gins, Kyle Schlesinger on Emily McVarish, Tim Peterson on kari edwards, Rob Halpern on Taylor Brady, Andrew Rippeon on CJ Martin, Alli Warren and Suzanne Stein on Alli Warren and Suzanne Stein, Michael Cross on Thom Donovan, and more. More @ http://oncontemporaries.wordpress.com/ Best as ever, Kyle ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 11:09:28 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: cris cheek Subject: gene robinson to give invocation at inauguration MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline http://thinkprogress.org/2009/01/12/gene-robinson-inauguration/ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 08:32:48 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Troy Camplin Subject: Re: On Health, Holiness, Beauty and Poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The spiritual and the holy are two very different things. One can be spirit= ual without being holy. One can also be religious without being holy, which= is of course the entire point of the essay. An understanding of the world = that unified the thought of Christianity, Buddhism, Taoism (I'm more than a= bit of a Taoist myself), Islam, Hinduism, Shintoism, etc. would be an unde= rstanding of the world as holy. I thus seek to recover the word "holy" from= the unholy ones who have highjacked the term. =0A=0AI do agree with you th= at postmodernism is in fact in most ways post-romanticism. Frederick Turner= suggests that the "post" of postmodern is shorthand for "postscript" -- as= indeed I think it is in many ways. It is certainly anti-Enlightenment, and= thus is in many ways Romantic, and even more so, Rousseauean. Indeed, the = postmodernists are all disciples of Rousseau -- but so are the Marxists, th= e fascists, and other egalitarianist thinkers. =0A=0ATroy Camplin=0A=0A=0A= =0A________________________________=0AFrom: John Cunningham =0ATo: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=0ASent: Sunday, January 11,= 2009 6:50:04 AM=0ASubject: Re: On Health, Holiness, Beauty and Poetry=0A= =0AThank you, Troy, for this rather detailed overview on theology. There a= re a=0Acouple of points with which I take exception.=0ABeing a Buddhist/Tao= ist, I take exception to your use of the word 'holy'. I=0Awould much rather= see the word 'spiritual' used as, in my mind, 'holy' is,=0Ain fact, a divi= sive word - something which, in opposition to, is one of the=0Amain themes = of your expurgation. =0AAnother is your discussion of Christianity. Unfortu= nately, in all things=0Averging on the spiritual, the original message of t= he originator is=0Acorrupted once it gets into the hands of man. This is tr= ue even of Buddhism=0Awhere a religion was created where none was intended.= The philosophy of=0ABuddhism and Taoism is intended to act on an individua= l basis although the=0Aconcept of the sangha may create confusion. However,= when the sangha is=0Aconsidered as a spiritual body there to support the i= ndividual in their=0Aquest for nirvana (nirbbana), then the individual rema= ins paramount.=0AFinally, your use of the term 'postmodern'. If we accept = Foucault's concept=0Aof the rupture and his adoption of the terms 'epoch' a= s areas in which new=0Aconceptions of old concepts has occurred, then 'mode= rnism' is just an=0Aextension, the dying breath, of romanticism. Therefore,= the correct term=0Ashould be 'post-romantic'.=0AJust some random thoughts.= =0AJohn Herbert Cunningham=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: Poetics = List (UPenn, UB) [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On=0ABehalf Of Troy = Camplin=0ASent: January-09-09 11:25 AM=0ATo: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU= =0ASubject: On Health, Holiness, Beauty and Poetry=0A=0AIn English the word= s holy, whole, hale, and health are etymologically=0Aconnected =96 Old Engl= ish halig, hal, and h=E6lth, respectively, which are all=0Arelated to hal. = Thus are they conceptually connected. To see the world as=0Aholy is to see = the world as whole =96 it is to have the world =93appear infinite=0Aand hol= y, whereas it now appears finite and corrupt=94 (William Blake, =93The=0AMa= rriage of Heaven and Hell=94). The word holistic comes from the Greek holos= ,=0Awhole. Thus the holy is holistic =96 God is holy because He encompasses= all.=0APerhaps one could even say that we can recognize the divine only wh= en we=0Acome to see the world as a whole, when we see the universe as unive= rsal.=0AWhen we can come=0A=0ATo see a World in a grain of sand,=0AAnd a He= aven in a wild flower,=0AHold Infinity in the palm of your hand,=0AAnd Eter= nity in an hour. (William Blake, =93Auguries of Innocence=94)=0A=0AHealth a= nd hale is the same. To have health is to have wholeness. To be hale=0Ais t= o be healthy =96 whole and complete. To make healthy is to make whole=0Aaga= in. One is healed through medication. But ideally, one would rather=0Amaint= ain one=92s health than have to withstand the ravages of medication=0A(phar= maceutical comes from the Greek pharmakon, which means both poison and=0Ame= dicine =96 as it does today), though medication is necessary to stave off= =0Adisease. This is the purpose of Plato=92s Pharmakon, to stave off diseas= e. For=0Adisease is the opposite of health.=0A=0AThe Modern Era, which we a= re still in, though we may be at the end of it,=0Abegan when Descartes spli= t man in two =96 body and soul. It was a necessary=0Adivision for the devel= opment of modern science (which Descartes all but=0Aadmits to =96 the divis= ion is so the Church will tend to the soul, while the=0Abody is left alone,= to be tended to by scientists such as Descartes), but it=0Awas certainly a= n unholy division (as all divisions are, by definition). Kant=0Adeepened th= is division. Hegel tried to mend it through philosophical=0Asynthesis. Marx= tried to mend it by recommending the overthrow of half of=0Athe world =96 = the world would then be wholly Proletarian. Nietzsche responded=0Ato Hegel = by dividing the world up even more =96 for him, humans are not=0Adivided in= to body and soul, but are instead a series of masks. With=0Apostmodernism, = the division is complete: men and women, multiculturalism,=0Aradical Cartes= ian individualism divide us up more and more. Any universality=0Ais=0Adenie= d. A necessary development =96 and not without its truth (I am aware of=0At= he irony of using the word truth, which comes from the Old English treowth,= =0Arelated to the word troth, from which we get the word betrothed, to spea= k of=0Aan idea that is more interested in divorce than betrothal). But it i= s=0Aprecisely as unholy as one can get.=0A=0AThe deep divisions fostered by= postmodernism came about because of a view=0Athat grand narratives, attemp= ts to universalize, and seeing the world as=0Aholistic created the problems= of the 20th Century. The Marxist grand=0Anarrative gave us the gulag of th= e Soviet Union, the massacres of the Khmer=0ARouge in Cambodia, and any num= ber of other slaughters done by governments=0Awho had embraced Marxist phil= osophy. We looked back on history after the=0AHolocaust, saw the grand narr= ative of Christianity had in the past itself=0Apromoted the killing of Jews= =96 particularly in the Inquisition =96 and=0Aconcluded that it too was da= ngerous. One could also mention The Terror of=0Athe French Revolution. What= did Marxism, Medieval Christianity, and the=0AFrench Revolution have in co= mmon? One thing was that they were all grand=0Anarratives. Thus, the logic = goes, it must be grand narratives which are bad.=0AAnd what do grand narrat= ives do? They see the world as a whole, which must=0Abe=0Aencompassed by th= eir ideology. To make the world a whole, it must be placed=0Aunder their on= e ideology. Thus, holistic world views were seen as bad =96 thus=0Awere the= y, and holiness, rejected. The path to Heaven =96 whether that heaven=0Awas= celestial or earthly =96 seemed to lead us straight into Hell. Perhaps in= =0Apart the rejection of holding a holistic view came about because it is= =0Arelated to the holy, and the holy has been rejected. To the extent that= =0Awisdom is the ability to see the unity of the world =96 meaning wisdom i= s the=0Aability to see the world as holy =96 wisdom was also rejected as im= possible,=0Aperhaps even undesirable.=0A=0AThe error in this way of thinkin= g derives from the error made in seeing=0ACommunism, Christianity, or the i= deals of the French Revolution as=0Ainterested in seeing the world as holis= tic. None of them saw the world as=0Aholistic, as holy =96 they instead wan= ted to make the world whole, under their=0Aparticular umbrellas. They too f= ostered divisions =96 there were enemies who=0Ahad to be either converted o= r killed in order that the world could be made=0Aholy. =93For the cherub wi= th his flaming sword is hereby commanded to leave=0Ahis guard at tree of li= fe; and when he does, the whole creation will be=0Aconsumed and appear infi= nite and holy=94 (Blake =93The Marriage of Heaven and=0AHell=94). Now Blake= here uses the word =93appear.=94 None of them saw the world as=0Aholy. It = had to be made so =96 through conflagration, if necessary. Postmodern=0Atho= ught, by dividing the world even more, does not help us to see the world=0A= as holy =96 quite the contrary. However, by insisting on=0Aequality among t= he various parts =96 among individuals, among cultures, among=0Areligions, = among any number of groups of individuals =96 postmodern thought=0Amay iron= ically make it now possible to see the world as being, rather than=0Aneedin= g to become, holy.=0A=0AIt may seem ironic to suggest that only by reaching= the most severe of=0Adivisions =96 seeing the world as eminently unholy = =96 that we can finally come=0Ato see that the world is in fact holy, but I= am not being ironic. To see the=0Aworld as holy is not to see everything i= n the world as equal in an=0Aegalitarian sense. There are hierarchies. To s= ee the world as holy is to=0Aunderstand how everything fits into the world = as a whole. It is to see the=0Aworld as an immense organism, and to care fo= r its health. An organism is=0Amade up of systems, organs, tissues, cells, = organelles, and various=0Abiochemicals. For one group to want to envelop th= e entire world in one way=0Aof thinking, believing, viewing the world, woul= d be the same as one cell=0Awanting to envelop the entire organism in that = one type of cell. We have a=0Aword for cells that want to do that: cancer. = The postmodernists have=0Amistaken viewing the actions of cancerous cells f= or seeing the whole=0Aorganism. Cancer must=0Abe fought, not mistaken for t= he animal it is in. That is the only way one=0Acan have a healthy organism = =96 and it is the only way to have a holy world..=0ALike a healthy organism= , a holy world is complex. Like a healthy organism, a=0Aholy world has smoo= thly working parts in communication with each other=0Athrough clear rules t= hat proscribe what each part needs to do for the whole=0Ato work well. Like= a healthy organism, this cannot come from any centralized=0Aauthority =96 = there is no one control cell in the body, and the brain must=0Ahave the lun= gs just as much as the lungs must have the brain. A holy world=0Ais like a = healthy organism.=0A=0AIn Negative Theology, one comes to know what God is = by figuring out what God=0Ais not. Aristotle says that if you are not sure = if something is good, try to=0Afigure out what is bad, and you can then ded= uce that what is good is its=0Aopposite. =0AThe following are unhealthy:=0A= =0A1. Overeating, including eating a high percentage of foods with low=0Anu= tritional value, while remaining inactive (not exercising)=0A2. Either stag= nation or change without continuity =96 both create instability=0A3. Stress= and anxiety =96 which comes about from not realizing that there are=0Apart= s of the world that one cannot control, and can lead to anger at those=0Ave= ry things=0A4. Hatred =96 aside from raising the blood pressure, it can cau= se one to act=0Ain ways that would be unhealthy for the object of our hatre= d=0A5. Cancer =96 already discussed=0A6. Excess =96 including the excess of= moderation=0A7. Shackles =96 prevents sufficient movement, equating to lac= k of exercise=0A8. Pollution =96 it can lead to any number of diseases=0A9.= An overly-clean environment =96 it can prevent our immune systems from=0Ad= eveloping properly, making us more susceptible to diseases, especially=0Aau= toimmune diseases=0A10. Suicide =96 inherently and obviously unhealthy=0A11= .. Isolation =96 loneliness can lead to depression, which depresses the=0Aim= mune system =0A12. Ignorance =96 either of the world or of oneself, as one = cannot maintain=0Aone=92s health if one is ignorant of what can harm it or = improve it=0A=0AThis leads one to posit the following are healthy:=0A=0A1. = Exercise, with a diet proper to the amount of exercise and of high=0Anutrit= ional value=0A2. Change with continuity=0A3. Realizing that there are parts= of the world that one cannot control, thus=0Areducing stress and anxiety= =0A4. Love=0A5. Keeping the body in hierarchical harmony=0A6. Moderation in= everything, including moderation =96 remembering that=0Amoderation is an e= xtreme in the same way that life is an extreme state of=0Aorganic chemistry= =0A7. Freedom =96 remembering that freedom does not equate to a lack of rul= es,=0Abut is rather what is achieved through playing by the best rules=0A8.= Cleanliness (which, as the saying goes, is next to Godliness, meaning it= =0Ais holy)=0A9. A non-sanitized world =96 a world without dirt is a world = that makes=0Aunhealthy organisms=0A10. Love of one=92s own life=0A11. Frien= ds=0A12. Knowledge =96 including self-knowledge=0A=0AOne can make a similar= list of what makes for a healthy mind:=0A1. Taking in healthy information = =96 good art, music, literature, philosophy,=0Athe sciences, etc. =96 with = sufficient exercise of the mind through thought,=0Adiscussion, and writing= =0A2. Change with continuity=0A3.. Realizing that there are parts of the wo= rld that one cannot control,=0Athus reducing stress and anxiety, which can = negatively affect the mind as=0Awell as the body=0A4. Love=0A5. Having a va= riety of inputs =96 obsession with one thing alone is a kind of=0Amental ca= ncer=0A6. Moderation in everything, including moderation =96 moderation of = reading,=0Aof rigorous thought, sexual thoughts, work, play, physical activ= ity, etc.=0A7. Freedom of thought =96 we must not think in shackles, but wi= th flexible=0Arules=0A8. Cleanliness of thought =96 this does not necessari= ly mean what it has=0Atraditionally meant in the West, though it can certai= nly contain some=0Aelements; thinking about sex is in and of itself not unc= lean=0A9. Realization that we do not and cannot live in a sanitized world, = as that=0Astops thought and creativity=0A10. Love of thinking=0A11. Friends= =96 as Aristotle says in Rhetoric, =93a wide circle of friends, a=0Avirtuo= us circle of friends,=94 and, I would add, a mentally stimulating circle=0A= of friends=0A12. Knowledge =96 including self knowledge =96 with the goal o= f wisdom=0A=0AA holy world is one that parallels the healthy body and the h= ealthy mind,=0Aand will have the above qualities, including moderation in e= verything,=0Aincluding moderation (i.e., it will be a just world), freedom = (this is=0Afreedom from, not freedom to), love, friendship, and beauty. A h= oly world is=0Aa beautiful world, both having variety in unity, unity in va= riety,=0Acomplexity, and fluid hierarchy that is self-similar regardless of= scale.=0AAll of the parts, living in love and friendship (which does not e= xclude=0Ahealthy competition, such as we find in sports and in free trade),= living in=0Aa complex dynamic with each other, living as individuals in va= rious=0Acommunities, many of which overlap and are nested within other comm= unities,=0Amust be self-similar to have a holy world.=0A=0AIn Greek, to kal= on means the beautiful, but it can also mean the honorable=0Aor the noble = =96 and kala can mean either things that are beautiful or things=0Athat are= morally good. In the Rhetoric, Aristotle says that =93Now kalon=0Adescribe= s whatever, through being chosen for itself, is praiseworthy or=0Awhatever,= through being good [agathon], is pleasant because it is good=0A[agathon]. = If this, then, is the kalon, then virtue is necessarily kalon;=0Afor it is = praiseworthy because of being good [agathon]=94 (79). Elaine Scarry=0Apoint= s out that in English too, there is a connection between beauty and the=0Ag= ood (the just), when she points out that to say that something is fair is= =0Ato say that it is either beautiful or that it is just. In Greek and in= =0AEnglish, the beautiful and the good are connected. If a holy world is a= =0Abeautiful world, it is a good and just world as well. As Heraclitus said= ,=0A=93For god all things are fair and just, but men have taken some things= as=0Aunjust, others as just=94 (LXVIII). The key here is that we see the w= orld=0Aitself as just =96 not the actions of each and every individual. The= world is=0Aitself justified and cannot itself be unjust. This is consisten= t with the=0Ateachings of any religion that sees the world as having been c= reated by God=0Aor the gods =96 how could a fair and just god create a worl= d that was itself=0Aunjust? And if theistic religions are rejected, how can= the world itself=0Apossibly be unjust? To say it is unjust is to give it a= nthropomorphic=0Aqualities. It is people who have taken some things as bein= g just, others as=0Aunjust =96 but the world itself is self-justified. Thos= e who do not see the=0Aworld as just are those who do not see the world as = holy =96 often they are=0Athe same people who think the only way the world = can be justified is if the=0Aworld is made holy through the transformation = of it into a perfect mirror of=0Athemselves. But we have seen that a world = made up of only one=0Aworld view is a cancerous world =96 and the world, as= a cancerous organism,=0Awill die. An organism cannot consist of one type o= f cell =96 that is the=0Aunhealthiest of organisms. And a world having only= one world view is the=0Aunhealthiest of worlds. In the same way that a hea= lthy body consists of a=0Avariety of cells that are variations of the same = theme coded by identical=0ADNA, a healthy world consists of a variety of pe= oples that are variations of=0Athe same themes coded for by our being human= and sharing the same cultural=0Auniversals. =0A=0ABeauty is also related t= o health =96 as we can see in the beauty we find in=0Anature. Healthy plant= s produce the most beautiful flowers. Healthy peacocks=0Aproduce the larges= t, most symmetrical, most colorful feathers. Healthy=0Agobies and other ter= ritorial reef fish have the brightest colors. All of=0Athis natural beauty = is the advertisement of health to the opposite sex. The=0Ahealthiest human = bodies (neither overweight nor super model thin) are the=0Amost beautiful. = Thus is there also a relationship between health, beauty,=0Aand sex. If bea= uty can thus be equated to health, we can see that beauty is=0Aagain equate= d to the holy. And we can see too that sex in-and-of-itself is=0Aand cannot= be unholy, as it is connected (but not equivalent) to beauty. =0A=0AA holy= world is a whole world. It is a healthy world. It is a good and just=0Awor= ld. It is a complex world. It is a world of individuals in community. It=0A= is a beautiful world. But is it a possible world? I have already given the= =0Aanswer: the world is itself already holy. We just have to learn to see i= t as=0Aholy. That is how we will heal the world. And, as we do, we will bec= ome less=0Aand less likely to want or try to eliminate those who disagree w= ith us =96=0Auntil we are all in agreement on this one issue, as all the ce= lls in an=0Aorganism are in agreement on the one issue that they must work = together for=0Athe health of the whole, even as each performs its own funct= ion. Thus, the=0Aworld will become more and more holy in our eyes. In works= of tragedy, nomos=0A(convention, human law, naming; from which we get the = words nomad and=0Anomenclature, and which is the changing and changeable as= pect of the world)=0Acomes into conflict with physis (or nature; from which= we get the=0Aword physics). That is the position we are now in. When we ge= t nomos to map=0Aonto physis (Heraclitus calls this conjunction logos =96 w= hich can be=0Atranslated as saying, speech, discourse, word, account, expla= nation, reason,=0Aprinciple, collection, enumeration, ratio, proportion), w= e will see the=0Aworld as it truly is: holy.=0A=0AOn the Holy=0A=0AWhere li= es the holy in the modern world?=0AIt lies in Blake=92s world in a grain of= sand =96=0AIt lies, and lies like the truth, in patterns=0ALike self-organ= ized rings of rocks barren=0AArctic fields create. It lies in the branch=0A= Of every tree and species, leafing out=0AFrom the known into the unknown. I= t lies=0AIn every song, painting and rhythmic verse.=0AWe have looked at ev= ery leaf and petal,=0AAt the bark and at the wood, every cell=0AAnd strand = of DNA is now known =96=0AAnd we have forgotten that all of this=0AWas once= a tree that gave us shade and filled=0AThe air with delicate sweetness and= held=0AThe grains of sand against its roots to hold=0AThe ground in place,= even as that ground moves=0AAnd changes in tiny ways we refuse=0ATo see. I= n this we can see the holy.=0AThis is where it lies, now and forever,=0AOn = the edge of order and wild chaos,=0AWhere the infinite holds in the finite,= =0AWhere we, ourselves holy, have always lived.=0A=0ATroy Camplin=0A=0A=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0AThe Poetics List is moderated & does not accept = all posts. Check guidelines=0A& sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poet= ics/welcome.html=0A=0A=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0AThe Poetics List is m= oderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: ht= tp://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 11:34:50 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Kyle Schlesinger Subject: TONIGHT @ THE POETRY PROJECT: Cyrus Console & Jessica Dessner Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cyrus Console & Jessica Dessner Poetry Project Monday January 12th, 2009 @ 8:00 Cyrus Console is from Topeka, Kansas. His first book, Brief Under Water, is available from Burning Deck Press. He lives in Lawrence, Kansas. Jessica Dessner is slowly making the transition from dancer/choreographer to poet/visual artist. Her poems have appeared or are forthcoming in La Petite Zine, Sal Mimeo, The Invisible Stitch, and H_NGM_N, and her chapbook, Wit's End with Bric-a-Brac, was published by Green Zone in 2006. She holds a BA in Dance from Barnard College and recently completed the New School's Poetry MFA program. Her drawings will be featured in the artwork for two upcoming record releases, the Welcome Wagon's Welcome to the Welcome Wagon, and Osso's Run Rabbit, Run, a string arrangement of Sufjan Stevens' Enjoy Your Rabbit. The Poetry Project is located at St. Mark's Church-in-the-Bowery 131 East 10th Street at Second Avenue New York City 10003 Trains: 6, F, N, R, and L. info@poetryproject.com www.poetryproject.com Admission is $8, $7 for students/seniors and $5 for members (though now those who take out a membership at $95 or higher will get in FREE to all regular readings). We are wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. For more info call 212-674-0910. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 11:26:58 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Michael Kelleher Subject: Literary Buffalo Newsletter 01.12.09-01.18.09 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=UTF-8 LITERARY BUFFALO 01.12.09-01.18.09 FIRST ANNUAL JUST BUFFALO MEMBER POETRY READING AND CONTEST Just Buffalo Literary Center is pleased to announce a new annual poetry rea= ding and contest for members to be judged by R.D. Pohl, editor of the poetr= y page at the Buffalo News. =CB=87Winners will be announced at a special me= mber's reading at CEPA Gallery during their member's exhibition on Saturday= , March 14, 2009. =CB=87 All contest entrants will be given a chance to read their poems in person a= t this event. =CB=87Audience members will also be given the opportunity to = choose an Audience Award for one of the poems. Audience Award and Jury Priz= e winners will each receive a =2450 cash prize, a gift from Talking Leaves.= =2E.Books, a certificate of recognition from Just Buffalo, & publication in= Artvoice. Contest is open to writers of poetry who are members in good standing at th= e time of submission. =CB=87Contestants may join Just Buffalo at the time o= f submission by visiting the Just Buffalo website (www.justbuffalo.org) or = by sending a check along with their entry. Guidelines: 1. Submit one poem in any form on any subject of no more than 5 pages in le= ngth and a separate cover page that includes name, address, telephone and e= mail. =CB=87DO NOT PUT YOUR NAME ON THE POEMS THEMSELVES. =CB=87JUDGING IS = BLIND. One poem per entrant, please. 2. Submit by email to: submissions=40justbuffalo.org or by mail to MEMBERS = POETRY CONTEST, c/o Just Buffalo Literary Center, 617 Main St., Suit 202A, = Buffalo, NY 14203. 3. Submissions will not be returned. Submissions by non-members or lapsed m= embers will be rejected unless annual membership (=2435) is paid in full be= fore contest deadline. 4. DEADLINE: February 14. 5. Winners will be announced at the end of the Member reading on March 14, = 2009. EVENTS THIS WEEK Visit the Literary Buffalo calendar at www.justbuffalo.org for more detaile= d info on these events. All events free and open to the pubic unless other= wise noted. 01.13.09 NOTE CHANGE OF VENUE FOR THIS EVENT Just Buffalo/Talking Leaves...Books Short Story Masters Literary Salon Discussion of Alice Munro short stories, Pt. 3 Tuesday, January 13, 6:30 PM ***SPOT COFFEE, CHIPPEWA AND DELAWARE*** 01.15.09 Just Buffalo/Small Press Poetry Series Robin F. Brox & Chris Sylvester Poetry Reading Thursday, January 15, 7:00 PM Rust Belt Books, 202 Allen St. ___________________________________________________________________________ JUST BUFFALO MEMBER WRITER CRITIQUE GROUP http://www.justbuffalo.org/docs/Writer_Critique_Group.pdf ___________________________________________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE If you would like to unsubscribe from this list, just say so and you will i= mmediately be removed. _______________________________ Michael Kelleher Artistic Director Just Buffalo Literary Center Market Arcade 617 Main St., Ste. 202A Buffalo, NY 14203 716.832.5400 716.270.0184 (fax) www.justbuffalo.org mjk=40justbuffalo.org =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 13:01:26 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Sara Wintz Subject: for all those new yorkers in the house... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline To top off the 2009, come join us this Saturday for an afternoon of poetry and performance. See details below. ---> Poetry and Performance <--- When: Saturday, January 17, 2009 2:00 PM to 3:30 PM Where: P.S.1 Contemporary Art Center 22-25 Jackson Ave Long Island City, Queens Contemporary writers Steve Cannon, LaTasha N. Nevada Diggs, Melanie Maria Goodreaux, and Lois Elaine Griffith will delve deeper into Ismael Reed's concept of "NeoHooDoo" and spirituality in artistic practice with a poetry reading. Following the reading, artist Terry Adkins will perform with Arthur Flowers, Joie Lee, and Blanche Bruce as part of the Lone Wolf Recital Corps, a musically based performance collaborative with a rotating membership. (*apologies for any cross-postings!) ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 13:51:47 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: On Health, Holiness, Beauty and Poetry In-Reply-To: <654050.46765.qm@web46211.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Troy, Isn't Rousseau in your worst hundred books in the world list? It is amazing how you made snide, thought-starved attacks through iconic references a second nature for yourself. In the negative sense you use the word post-modern, you are the most post-modern of every one here. Ciao, Murat On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 11:32 AM, Troy Camplin wrote= : > The spiritual and the holy are two very different things. One can be > spiritual without being holy. One can also be religious without being hol= y, > which is of course the entire point of the essay. An understanding of the > world that unified the thought of Christianity, Buddhism, Taoism (I'm mor= e > than a bit of a Taoist myself), Islam, Hinduism, Shintoism, etc. would be= an > understanding of the world as holy. I thus seek to recover the word "holy= " > from the unholy ones who have highjacked the term. > > I do agree with you that postmodernism is in fact in most ways > post-romanticism. Frederick Turner suggests that the "post" of postmodern= is > shorthand for "postscript" -- as indeed I think it is in many ways. It is > certainly anti-Enlightenment, and thus is in many ways Romantic, and even > more so, Rousseauean. Indeed, the postmodernists are all disciples of > Rousseau -- but so are the Marxists, the fascists, and other egalitariani= st > thinkers. > > Troy Camplin > > > > ________________________________ > From: John Cunningham > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 6:50:04 AM > Subject: Re: On Health, Holiness, Beauty and Poetry > > Thank you, Troy, for this rather detailed overview on theology. There ar= e > a > couple of points with which I take exception. > Being a Buddhist/Taoist, I take exception to your use of the word 'holy'.= I > would much rather see the word 'spiritual' used as, in my mind, 'holy' is= , > in fact, a divisive word - something which, in opposition to, is one of t= he > main themes of your expurgation. > Another is your discussion of Christianity. Unfortunately, in all things > verging on the spiritual, the original message of the originator is > corrupted once it gets into the hands of man. This is true even of Buddhi= sm > where a religion was created where none was intended. The philosophy of > Buddhism and Taoism is intended to act on an individual basis although th= e > concept of the sangha may create confusion. However, when the sangha is > considered as a spiritual body there to support the individual in their > quest for nirvana (nirbbana), then the individual remains paramount. > Finally, your use of the term 'postmodern'. If we accept Foucault's > concept > of the rupture and his adoption of the terms 'epoch' as areas in which ne= w > conceptions of old concepts has occurred, then 'modernism' is just an > extension, the dying breath, of romanticism. Therefore, the correct term > should be 'post-romantic'. > Just some random thoughts. > John Herbert Cunningham > > -----Original Message----- > From: Poetics List (UPenn, UB) [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > Behalf Of Troy Camplin > Sent: January-09-09 11:25 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: On Health, Holiness, Beauty and Poetry > > In English the words holy, whole, hale, and health are etymologically > connected =96 Old English halig, hal, and h=E6lth, respectively, which ar= e all > related to hal. Thus are they conceptually connected. To see the world as > holy is to see the world as whole =96 it is to have the world "appear > infinite > and holy, whereas it now appears finite and corrupt" (William Blake, "The > Marriage of Heaven and Hell"). The word holistic comes from the Greek > holos, > whole. Thus the holy is holistic =96 God is holy because He encompasses a= ll. > Perhaps one could even say that we can recognize the divine only when we > come to see the world as a whole, when we see the universe as universal. > When we can come > > To see a World in a grain of sand, > And a Heaven in a wild flower, > Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand, > And Eternity in an hour. (William Blake, "Auguries of Innocence") > > Health and hale is the same. To have health is to have wholeness. To be > hale > is to be healthy =96 whole and complete. To make healthy is to make whole > again. One is healed through medication. But ideally, one would rather > maintain one's health than have to withstand the ravages of medication > (pharmaceutical comes from the Greek pharmakon, which means both poison a= nd > medicine =96 as it does today), though medication is necessary to stave o= ff > disease. This is the purpose of Plato's Pharmakon, to stave off disease. > For > disease is the opposite of health. > > The Modern Era, which we are still in, though we may be at the end of it, > began when Descartes split man in two =96 body and soul. It was a necessa= ry > division for the development of modern science (which Descartes all but > admits to =96 the division is so the Church will tend to the soul, while = the > body is left alone, to be tended to by scientists such as Descartes), but > it > was certainly an unholy division (as all divisions are, by definition). > Kant > deepened this division. Hegel tried to mend it through philosophical > synthesis. Marx tried to mend it by recommending the overthrow of half of > the world =96 the world would then be wholly Proletarian. Nietzsche respo= nded > to Hegel by dividing the world up even more =96 for him, humans are not > divided into body and soul, but are instead a series of masks. With > postmodernism, the division is complete: men and women, multiculturalism, > radical Cartesian individualism divide us up more and more. Any > universality > is > denied. A necessary development =96 and not without its truth (I am aware= of > the irony of using the word truth, which comes from the Old English > treowth, > related to the word troth, from which we get the word betrothed, to speak > of > an idea that is more interested in divorce than betrothal). But it is > precisely as unholy as one can get. > > The deep divisions fostered by postmodernism came about because of a view > that grand narratives, attempts to universalize, and seeing the world as > holistic created the problems of the 20th Century. The Marxist grand > narrative gave us the gulag of the Soviet Union, the massacres of the Khm= er > Rouge in Cambodia, and any number of other slaughters done by governments > who had embraced Marxist philosophy. We looked back on history after the > Holocaust, saw the grand narrative of Christianity had in the past itself > promoted the killing of Jews =96 particularly in the Inquisition =96 and > concluded that it too was dangerous. One could also mention The Terror of > the French Revolution. What did Marxism, Medieval Christianity, and the > French Revolution have in common? One thing was that they were all grand > narratives. Thus, the logic goes, it must be grand narratives which are > bad. > And what do grand narratives do? They see the world as a whole, which mus= t > be > encompassed by their ideology. To make the world a whole, it must be plac= ed > under their one ideology. Thus, holistic world views were seen as bad =96 > thus > were they, and holiness, rejected. The path to Heaven =96 whether that he= aven > was celestial or earthly =96 seemed to lead us straight into Hell. Perhap= s in > part the rejection of holding a holistic view came about because it is > related to the holy, and the holy has been rejected. To the extent that > wisdom is the ability to see the unity of the world =96 meaning wisdom is= the > ability to see the world as holy =96 wisdom was also rejected as impossib= le, > perhaps even undesirable. > > The error in this way of thinking derives from the error made in seeing > Communism, Christianity, or the ideals of the French Revolution as > interested in seeing the world as holistic. None of them saw the world as > holistic, as holy =96 they instead wanted to make the world whole, under > their > particular umbrellas. They too fostered divisions =96 there were enemies = who > had to be either converted or killed in order that the world could be mad= e > holy. "For the cherub with his flaming sword is hereby commanded to leave > his guard at tree of life; and when he does, the whole creation will be > consumed and appear infinite and holy" (Blake "The Marriage of Heaven and > Hell"). Now Blake here uses the word "appear." None of them saw the world > as > holy. It had to be made so =96 through conflagration, if necessary. > Postmodern > thought, by dividing the world even more, does not help us to see the wor= ld > as holy =96 quite the contrary. However, by insisting on > equality among the various parts =96 among individuals, among cultures, a= mong > religions, among any number of groups of individuals =96 postmodern thoug= ht > may ironically make it now possible to see the world as being, rather tha= n > needing to become, holy. > > It may seem ironic to suggest that only by reaching the most severe of > divisions =96 seeing the world as eminently unholy =96 that we can finall= y come > to see that the world is in fact holy, but I am not being ironic. To see > the > world as holy is not to see everything in the world as equal in an > egalitarian sense. There are hierarchies. To see the world as holy is to > understand how everything fits into the world as a whole. It is to see th= e > world as an immense organism, and to care for its health. An organism is > made up of systems, organs, tissues, cells, organelles, and various > biochemicals. For one group to want to envelop the entire world in one wa= y > of thinking, believing, viewing the world, would be the same as one cell > wanting to envelop the entire organism in that one type of cell. We have = a > word for cells that want to do that: cancer. The postmodernists have > mistaken viewing the actions of cancerous cells for seeing the whole > organism. Cancer must > be fought, not mistaken for the animal it is in. That is the only way one > can have a healthy organism =96 and it is the only way to have a holy wor= ld.. > Like a healthy organism, a holy world is complex. Like a healthy organism= , > a > holy world has smoothly working parts in communication with each other > through clear rules that proscribe what each part needs to do for the who= le > to work well. Like a healthy organism, this cannot come from any > centralized > authority =96 there is no one control cell in the body, and the brain mus= t > have the lungs just as much as the lungs must have the brain. A holy worl= d > is like a healthy organism. > > In Negative Theology, one comes to know what God is by figuring out what > God > is not. Aristotle says that if you are not sure if something is good, try > to > figure out what is bad, and you can then deduce that what is good is its > opposite. > The following are unhealthy: > > 1. Overeating, including eating a high percentage of foods with low > nutritional value, while remaining inactive (not exercising) > 2. Either stagnation or change without continuity =96 both create instabi= lity > 3. Stress and anxiety =96 which comes about from not realizing that there= are > parts of the world that one cannot control, and can lead to anger at thos= e > very things > 4. Hatred =96 aside from raising the blood pressure, it can cause one to = act > in ways that would be unhealthy for the object of our hatred > 5. Cancer =96 already discussed > 6. Excess =96 including the excess of moderation > 7. Shackles =96 prevents sufficient movement, equating to lack of exercis= e > 8. Pollution =96 it can lead to any number of diseases > 9. An overly-clean environment =96 it can prevent our immune systems from > developing properly, making us more susceptible to diseases, especially > autoimmune diseases > 10. Suicide =96 inherently and obviously unhealthy > 11.. Isolation =96 loneliness can lead to depression, which depresses the > immune system > 12. Ignorance =96 either of the world or of oneself, as one cannot mainta= in > one's health if one is ignorant of what can harm it or improve it > > This leads one to posit the following are healthy: > > 1. Exercise, with a diet proper to the amount of exercise and of high > nutritional value > 2. Change with continuity > 3. Realizing that there are parts of the world that one cannot control, > thus > reducing stress and anxiety > 4. Love > 5. Keeping the body in hierarchical harmony > 6. Moderation in everything, including moderation =96 remembering that > moderation is an extreme in the same way that life is an extreme state of > organic chemistry > 7. Freedom =96 remembering that freedom does not equate to a lack of rule= s, > but is rather what is achieved through playing by the best rules > 8. Cleanliness (which, as the saying goes, is next to Godliness, meaning = it > is holy) > 9. A non-sanitized world =96 a world without dirt is a world that makes > unhealthy organisms > 10. Love of one's own life > 11. Friends > 12. Knowledge =96 including self-knowledge > > One can make a similar list of what makes for a healthy mind: > 1. Taking in healthy information =96 good art, music, literature, philoso= phy, > the sciences, etc. =96 with sufficient exercise of the mind through thoug= ht, > discussion, and writing > 2. Change with continuity > 3.. Realizing that there are parts of the world that one cannot control, > thus reducing stress and anxiety, which can negatively affect the mind as > well as the body > 4. Love > 5. Having a variety of inputs =96 obsession with one thing alone is a kin= d of > mental cancer > 6. Moderation in everything, including moderation =96 moderation of readi= ng, > of rigorous thought, sexual thoughts, work, play, physical activity, etc. > 7. Freedom of thought =96 we must not think in shackles, but with flexibl= e > rules > 8. Cleanliness of thought =96 this does not necessarily mean what it has > traditionally meant in the West, though it can certainly contain some > elements; thinking about sex is in and of itself not unclean > 9. Realization that we do not and cannot live in a sanitized world, as th= at > stops thought and creativity > 10. Love of thinking > 11. Friends =96 as Aristotle says in Rhetoric, "a wide circle of friends,= a > virtuous circle of friends," and, I would add, a mentally stimulating > circle > of friends > 12. Knowledge =96 including self knowledge =96 with the goal of wisdom > > A holy world is one that parallels the healthy body and the healthy mind, > and will have the above qualities, including moderation in everything, > including moderation (i.e., it will be a just world), freedom (this is > freedom from, not freedom to), love, friendship, and beauty. A holy world > is > a beautiful world, both having variety in unity, unity in variety, > complexity, and fluid hierarchy that is self-similar regardless of scale. > All of the parts, living in love and friendship (which does not exclude > healthy competition, such as we find in sports and in free trade), living > in > a complex dynamic with each other, living as individuals in various > communities, many of which overlap and are nested within other communitie= s, > must be self-similar to have a holy world. > > In Greek, to kalon means the beautiful, but it can also mean the honorabl= e > or the noble =96 and kala can mean either things that are beautiful or th= ings > that are morally good. In the Rhetoric, Aristotle says that "Now kalon > describes whatever, through being chosen for itself, is praiseworthy or > whatever, through being good [agathon], is pleasant because it is good > [agathon]. If this, then, is the kalon, then virtue is necessarily kalon; > for it is praiseworthy because of being good [agathon]" (79). Elaine Scar= ry > points out that in English too, there is a connection between beauty and > the > good (the just), when she points out that to say that something is fair i= s > to say that it is either beautiful or that it is just. In Greek and in > English, the beautiful and the good are connected. If a holy world is a > beautiful world, it is a good and just world as well. As Heraclitus said, > "For god all things are fair and just, but men have taken some things as > unjust, others as just" (LXVIII). The key here is that we see the world > itself as just =96 not the actions of each and every individual. The worl= d is > itself justified and cannot itself be unjust. This is consistent with the > teachings of any religion that sees the world as having been created by G= od > or the gods =96 how could a fair and just god create a world that was its= elf > unjust? And if theistic religions are rejected, how can the world itself > possibly be unjust? To say it is unjust is to give it anthropomorphic > qualities. It is people who have taken some things as being just, others = as > unjust =96 but the world itself is self-justified. Those who do not see t= he > world as just are those who do not see the world as holy =96 often they a= re > the same people who think the only way the world can be justified is if t= he > world is made holy through the transformation of it into a perfect mirror > of > themselves. But we have seen that a world made up of only one > world view is a cancerous world =96 and the world, as a cancerous organis= m, > will die. An organism cannot consist of one type of cell =96 that is the > unhealthiest of organisms. And a world having only one world view is the > unhealthiest of worlds. In the same way that a healthy body consists of a > variety of cells that are variations of the same theme coded by identical > DNA, a healthy world consists of a variety of peoples that are variations > of > the same themes coded for by our being human and sharing the same cultura= l > universals. > > Beauty is also related to health =96 as we can see in the beauty we find = in > nature. Healthy plants produce the most beautiful flowers. Healthy peacoc= ks > produce the largest, most symmetrical, most colorful feathers. Healthy > gobies and other territorial reef fish have the brightest colors. All of > this natural beauty is the advertisement of health to the opposite sex. T= he > healthiest human bodies (neither overweight nor super model thin) are the > most beautiful. Thus is there also a relationship between health, beauty, > and sex. If beauty can thus be equated to health, we can see that beauty = is > again equated to the holy. And we can see too that sex in-and-of-itself i= s > and cannot be unholy, as it is connected (but not equivalent) to beauty. > > A holy world is a whole world. It is a healthy world. It is a good and ju= st > world. It is a complex world. It is a world of individuals in community. = It > is a beautiful world. But is it a possible world? I have already given th= e > answer: the world is itself already holy. We just have to learn to see it > as > holy. That is how we will heal the world. And, as we do, we will become > less > and less likely to want or try to eliminate those who disagree with us = =96 > until we are all in agreement on this one issue, as all the cells in an > organism are in agreement on the one issue that they must work together f= or > the health of the whole, even as each performs its own function. Thus, th= e > world will become more and more holy in our eyes. In works of tragedy, > nomos > (convention, human law, naming; from which we get the words nomad and > nomenclature, and which is the changing and changeable aspect of the worl= d) > comes into conflict with physis (or nature; from which we get the > word physics). That is the position we are now in. When we get nomos to m= ap > onto physis (Heraclitus calls this conjunction logos =96 which can be > translated as saying, speech, discourse, word, account, explanation, > reason, > principle, collection, enumeration, ratio, proportion), we will see the > world as it truly is: holy. > > On the Holy > > Where lies the holy in the modern world? > It lies in Blake's world in a grain of sand =96 > It lies, and lies like the truth, in patterns > Like self-organized rings of rocks barren > Arctic fields create. It lies in the branch > Of every tree and species, leafing out > From the known into the unknown. It lies > In every song, painting and rhythmic verse. > We have looked at every leaf and petal, > At the bark and at the wood, every cell > And strand of DNA is now known =96 > And we have forgotten that all of this > Was once a tree that gave us shade and filled > The air with delicate sweetness and held > The grains of sand against its roots to hold > The ground in place, even as that ground moves > And changes in tiny ways we refuse > To see. In this we can see the holy. > This is where it lies, now and forever, > On the edge of order and wild chaos, > Where the infinite holds in the finite, > Where we, ourselves holy, have always lived. > > Troy Camplin > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 14:31:10 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Al Filreis Subject: PoemTalk #13: Kathleen Fraser's "The Cars" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v929.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Now releasing... PoemTalk's thirteenth episode is a discussion of Kathleen Fraser's "The Cars" featuring C.A. Conrad, Kristen Gallagher, and Jessica Lowenthal. 1) At the Poetry Foundation audio & podcasts page: http://www.poetryfoundation.org/journal/audioitem.html?id=685 2) At the PoemTalk blog: http://www.poemtalk.org 3) In the iTunes Music Store: search for "PoemTalk" and subscribe. Next up is Episode #14, on Wallace Stevens' "Not Ideas about the Thing But the Thing Itself" with Nada Gordon, Charles Bernstein and Lawrence Joseph. - Al Filreis P.S. Call (215) 746-POEM now and find out what's going on at the Writers House tonight, and have the option of hearing other features: my recommendation for an upcoming event; recording of a short poem performed at KWH; a short student audio project. http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 13:48:08 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: Can "nature" poetry be postmodern/post-structural? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Recently read Richard Louv's "Last Child In The Woods:Saving Our Children from Nature-Deficit Disorder" (2005,2008) and he references Wordsworth, and of course, Gary Snyder. And just this morning I found this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2008/dec/27/nick-laird-poetry-nature Can anyone suggest poets, critiques, etc. re: non-traditional nature poetry? Mary Jo Malo -- http://thisshiningwound.blogspot.com/ http://apophisdeconstructingabsurdity.blogspot.com/ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:59:28 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: getting inauguerated MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Inauguration - Hip Hip Hooray! Poetry for America! plus 3 cheers for you AND an OPEN MIC! Tell us how your dreams about America can come true. featured poets Steve Dalachinsky, Eliot Katz, Big Mike, Tsaurah Litzky Nancy Mercado, Yuko Otomo, Elizabeth Smith, Nathan Versace Join us on January 19 @ 8 pm - 10 pm for this Inaugural celebration share in this historic even and tell us your ideas for America Hosted by Tsaurah Litzky @ FusionArts Museum 57 Stanton St. (between Forsythe & Eldridge Sts.) NYC 10002 1-212-995-5290 www.fusionartsmuseum.org ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 16:31:40 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit there is a sweetheart--Tim Peterson. thank you, esp as I'm too busy to continue this discussion. love ruth wish we COULD. On 1/12/09 8:27 AM, "Tim Peterson" wrote: > Adam! Ruth! Two of my dearest friends...it makes me feel terrible to see you > guys fighting like this! The Poetry Brothel is not worth getting this upset > about. Let's all kick back in my living room with a mug of coco and listen > to Gloria Steinheim records backwards. How about this evening? > > Love, Tim > > Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 23:49:49 -0500 > From: Ruth Lepson > Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory > > twisting my words! > so writing about objections to prostitution does nothing, huh--so words > don't matter? > I think all those jobs are degrading. > I wd like to defend yr friends by getting them better jobs. > I am not criticizing these women. > Better working conditions wd be not having to succumb to male ideas of > sexuality in our culture, such narrow constraints. > > > > On 1/9/09 5:49 PM, "Adam Tobin" wrote: > >> but you were the one crying shame! on the women of the Poetry Brothel! for >> dressing like whores! >> >> (please note that I am NOT arguing that prostitution is not a sexist >> institution. clearly it is. and i agree that it is part of a complex of >> normative heterosexuality that does terrible violence to all women. But > as >> for the actual women who are living in actual slavery, i think complaining >> about the symbolic degrading of womankind does nothing for them: it's like >> trying to improve the safety of coal mines by complaining about climate >> change. >> >> And if you're just using those women (who are very real, and many of them >> living in absolutely horrific situations, as you rightly pointed out) as >> symbols of Degraded Womankind, you are doing a disservice to them and also >> to the many many women (some of whom must be subscribers to this list) who >> work in other parts of the sex trade -- exotic dancers, high-end > call-girls, >> dominatrices, nude housekeepers, pornographic models, hooters waitresses, >> etc. -- some of these people are my friends and i take it personally -- > and >> I think that their own struggles for better working conditions are not >> unrelated to the struggle against slavery in other parts of their bosses' >> businesses... >> >> -- but i'm sorry that i overreacted and became part of a litany of men > (all >> men! really! can it really be that there are no women here who work in > the >> sex trade??) who are all seemingly trying to justify the institution as an >> institution. I am not trying to justify it, just trying to defend my >> friends who work there from the harsh judgments of their elders... >> > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 16:44:34 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Adam In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable your wife's breast & your rising manhood--great--but imagery of trashing women is something else. On 1/11/09 3:35 AM, "David Seaman" wrote: > This remark is interesting and courageous, in this context. It has > become dangerous to enter the dialogue. I have been surprised at how > long this debate has gone on, and it begins to resemble one of those > feuds that gets worse through responding rhetoric, further alienating > the conversants. One of the dangers of the internet, we can speak too > soon, and too rashly. (Been there, my Dutch friends.) >=20 > Are we able to use any imagery at all? A holocaust of the mind, the > poetry brothel, a genocide of vegetables, a lasagne of literature, a > smoothie of symbolism. =B3Epater les bourgeois!=B2 Well, we seem to have > done it. >=20 > I think this discussion has gotten out of hand. I would love to use > my wife=B9s breasts and my rising manhood in poetic imagery, and do it > without implicitly supporting sex slaves in Thailand. For me, all > poetry is about creativity, and all creativity is about sex, and all > sex is =8A well, you get the idea. >=20 > Davoid > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 16:45:36 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Oppen quote - help! In-Reply-To: <149373.73160.qm@web53212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable ask eliot weinberger-- On 1/11/09 9:05 AM, "Eric Hoffman" wrote: > Please help! I'm trying to locate the source of the following passage fro= m one > of=A0Oppen's Daybooks or Papers, published in Sulfur, Conjunctions, Iowa Re= view, > Germ, Jubilat or Ironwood?=A0 I don't think it's included in Cope's book . = . . >=20 > =A0=A0 "Clarity for my sake. That I may understand my life." > =A0 > =A0=A0=A0 Thank you in advance! >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 14:25:13 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: On Health, Holiness, Beauty and Poetry In-Reply-To: <829611.47609.qm@web46216.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Troy, I often disagree with you, but I can see a good deal of merit in your =20= project here to reclaim the word holy. The analytic philosopher in me (eminently modernist, don't you know) =20 wants a bit more rigor here though. to that end i would consider the following pairings with the word =20 holy and holiness which I think maybe create some problems for what =20 you're saying and that I think need answering. Don't misunderstand =20 me, I think that there can be answers, I'm just curious about how the =20= lines are drawn poetically and philosophically here. first: holy vs. sacred my own first among equals in the philosophical pantheon ludwig =20 wittgenstein has counseled that in most cases the meaning of a word =20 is it's use in a loanguage. To that end, we often use the word holy =20 in the same circumstance that we might also use the word sacred. =20 There is an overlap there just as there exists overlap between the =20 unholy and the profane. But the terms are not coextensive and =20 therefore not exact synonyms. I wonder what might be holy but not =20 sacred and in where the distinction lies. second: holiness vs holism there seems to be some blurring going on between the two words that =20 I'm not sure i understand. are you saying that holism is by =20 definition holy? how then do you account for competing views of =20 holines? you touched on this a bit in what's below and yr comments on =20= metanarrative, but I'd like to see a more explicit development of =20 that thought, specifically given that the postmodern condition of =20 skepticism toward metanarratives (holiness in your view) is itself =20 holistic. third: the holy vs the good is all that is holy good? is all that is good holy? if so, why the =20 different words and wahat do we make of the different qualities =20 associated with each? holiness hasa connotation of unapproachability =20 and beyond the merely human, whereas goodness is something that we =20 can always seem ot find and appreciate. it is much like the aesthetic =20= in this way. On Jan 9, 2009, at 9:24 AM, Troy Camplin wrote: > In English the words holy, whole, hale, and health are =20 > etymologically connected =96 Old English halig, hal, and h=E6lth, =20 > respectively, which are all related to hal. Thus are they =20 > conceptually connected. To see the world as holy is to see the =20 > world as whole =96 it is to have the world =93appear infinite and = holy, =20 > whereas it now appears finite and corrupt=94 (William Blake, =93The =20= > Marriage of Heaven and Hell=94). The word holistic comes from the =20 > Greek holos, whole. Thus the holy is holistic =96 God is holy because =20= > He encompasses all. Perhaps one could even say that we can =20 > recognize the divine only when we come to see the world as a whole, =20= > when we see the universe as universal. When we can come > > To see a World in a grain of sand, > And a Heaven in a wild flower, > Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand, > And Eternity in an hour. (William Blake, =93Auguries of Innocence=94) > > Health and hale is the same. To have health is to have wholeness. =20 > To be hale is to be healthy =96 whole and complete. To make healthy =20= > is to make whole again. One is healed through medication. But =20 > ideally, one would rather maintain one=92s health than have to =20 > withstand the ravages of medication (pharmaceutical comes from the =20 > Greek pharmakon, which means both poison and medicine =96 as it does =20= > today), though medication is necessary to stave off disease. This =20 > is the purpose of Plato=92s Pharmakon, to stave off disease. For =20 > disease is the opposite of health. > > The Modern Era, which we are still in, though we may be at the end =20 > of it, began when Descartes split man in two =96 body and soul. It =20 > was a necessary division for the development of modern science =20 > (which Descartes all but admits to =96 the division is so the Church =20= > will tend to the soul, while the body is left alone, to be tended =20 > to by scientists such as Descartes), but it was certainly an unholy =20= > division (as all divisions are, by definition). Kant deepened this =20 > division. Hegel tried to mend it through philosophical synthesis. =20 > Marx tried to mend it by recommending the overthrow of half of the =20 > world =96 the world would then be wholly Proletarian. Nietzsche =20 > responded to Hegel by dividing the world up even more =96 for him, =20 > humans are not divided into body and soul, but are instead a series =20= > of masks. With postmodernism, the division is complete: men and =20 > women, multiculturalism, radical Cartesian individualism divide us =20 > up more and more. Any universality is > denied. A necessary development =96 and not without its truth (I am =20= > aware of the irony of using the word truth, which comes from the =20 > Old English treowth, related to the word troth, from which we get =20 > the word betrothed, to speak of an idea that is more interested in =20 > divorce than betrothal). But it is precisely as unholy as one can get. > > The deep divisions fostered by postmodernism came about because of =20 > a view that grand narratives, attempts to universalize, and seeing =20 > the world as holistic created the problems of the 20th Century. The =20= > Marxist grand narrative gave us the gulag of the Soviet Union, the =20 > massacres of the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia, and any number of other =20 > slaughters done by governments who had embraced Marxist philosophy. =20= > We looked back on history after the Holocaust, saw the grand =20 > narrative of Christianity had in the past itself promoted the =20 > killing of Jews =96 particularly in the Inquisition =96 and concluded =20= > that it too was dangerous. One could also mention The Terror of the =20= > French Revolution. What did Marxism, Medieval Christianity, and the =20= > French Revolution have in common? One thing was that they were all =20 > grand narratives. Thus, the logic goes, it must be grand narratives =20= > which are bad. And what do grand narratives do? They see the world =20 > as a whole, which must be > encompassed by their ideology. To make the world a whole, it must =20 > be placed under their one ideology. Thus, holistic world views were =20= > seen as bad =96 thus were they, and holiness, rejected. The path to =20= > Heaven =96 whether that heaven was celestial or earthly =96 seemed to =20= > lead us straight into Hell. Perhaps in part the rejection of =20 > holding a holistic view came about because it is related to the =20 > holy, and the holy has been rejected. To the extent that wisdom is =20 > the ability to see the unity of the world =96 meaning wisdom is the =20= > ability to see the world as holy =96 wisdom was also rejected as =20 > impossible, perhaps even undesirable. > > The error in this way of thinking derives from the error made in =20 > seeing Communism, Christianity, or the ideals of the French =20 > Revolution as interested in seeing the world as holistic. None of =20 > them saw the world as holistic, as holy =96 they instead wanted to =20 > make the world whole, under their particular umbrellas. They too =20 > fostered divisions =96 there were enemies who had to be either =20 > converted or killed in order that the world could be made holy. =20 > =93For the cherub with his flaming sword is hereby commanded to leave =20= > his guard at tree of life; and when he does, the whole creation =20 > will be consumed and appear infinite and holy=94 (Blake =93The = Marriage =20 > of Heaven and Hell=94). Now Blake here uses the word =93appear.=94 = None =20 > of them saw the world as holy. It had to be made so =96 through =20 > conflagration, if necessary. Postmodern thought, by dividing the =20 > world even more, does not help us to see the world as holy =96 quite =20= > the contrary. However, by insisting on > equality among the various parts =96 among individuals, among =20 > cultures, among religions, among any number of groups of =20 > individuals =96 postmodern thought may ironically make it now =20 > possible to see the world as being, rather than needing to become, =20 > holy. > > It may seem ironic to suggest that only by reaching the most severe =20= > of divisions =96 seeing the world as eminently unholy =96 that we can =20= > finally come to see that the world is in fact holy, but I am not =20 > being ironic. To see the world as holy is not to see everything in =20 > the world as equal in an egalitarian sense. There are hierarchies. =20 > To see the world as holy is to understand how everything fits into =20 > the world as a whole. It is to see the world as an immense =20 > organism, and to care for its health. An organism is made up of =20 > systems, organs, tissues, cells, organelles, and various =20 > biochemicals. For one group to want to envelop the entire world in =20 > one way of thinking, believing, viewing the world, would be the =20 > same as one cell wanting to envelop the entire organism in that one =20= > type of cell. We have a word for cells that want to do that: =20 > cancer. The postmodernists have mistaken viewing the actions of =20 > cancerous cells for seeing the whole organism. Cancer must > be fought, not mistaken for the animal it is in. That is the only =20 > way one can have a healthy organism =96 and it is the only way to =20 > have a holy world.. Like a healthy organism, a holy world is =20 > complex. Like a healthy organism, a holy world has smoothly working =20= > parts in communication with each other through clear rules that =20 > proscribe what each part needs to do for the whole to work well. =20 > Like a healthy organism, this cannot come from any centralized =20 > authority =96 there is no one control cell in the body, and the brain =20= > must have the lungs just as much as the lungs must have the brain. =20 > A holy world is like a healthy organism. > > In Negative Theology, one comes to know what God is by figuring out =20= > what God is not. Aristotle says that if you are not sure if =20 > something is good, try to figure out what is bad, and you can then =20 > deduce that what is good is its opposite. > The following are unhealthy: > > 1. Overeating, including eating a high percentage of foods with low =20= > nutritional value, while remaining inactive (not exercising) > 2. Either stagnation or change without continuity =96 both create =20 > instability > 3. Stress and anxiety =96 which comes about from not realizing that =20= > there are parts of the world that one cannot control, and can lead =20 > to anger at those very things > 4. Hatred =96 aside from raising the blood pressure, it can cause one =20= > to act in ways that would be unhealthy for the object of our hatred > 5. Cancer =96 already discussed > 6. Excess =96 including the excess of moderation > 7. Shackles =96 prevents sufficient movement, equating to lack of =20 > exercise > 8. Pollution =96 it can lead to any number of diseases > 9. An overly-clean environment =96 it can prevent our immune systems =20= > from developing properly, making us more susceptible to diseases, =20 > especially autoimmune diseases > 10. Suicide =96 inherently and obviously unhealthy > 11. Isolation =96 loneliness can lead to depression, which depresses =20= > the immune system > 12. Ignorance =96 either of the world or of oneself, as one cannot =20 > maintain one=92s health if one is ignorant of what can harm it or =20 > improve it > > This leads one to posit the following are healthy: > > 1. Exercise, with a diet proper to the amount of exercise and of =20 > high nutritional value > 2. Change with continuity > 3. Realizing that there are parts of the world that one cannot =20 > control, thus reducing stress and anxiety > 4. Love > 5. Keeping the body in hierarchical harmony > 6. Moderation in everything, including moderation =96 remembering =20 > that moderation is an extreme in the same way that life is an =20 > extreme state of organic chemistry > 7. Freedom =96 remembering that freedom does not equate to a lack of =20= > rules, but is rather what is achieved through playing by the best =20 > rules > 8. Cleanliness (which, as the saying goes, is next to Godliness, =20 > meaning it is holy) > 9. A non-sanitized world =96 a world without dirt is a world that =20 > makes unhealthy organisms > 10. Love of one=92s own life > 11. Friends > 12. Knowledge =96 including self-knowledge > > One can make a similar list of what makes for a healthy mind: > 1. Taking in healthy information =96 good art, music, literature, =20 > philosophy, the sciences, etc. =96 with sufficient exercise of the =20 > mind through thought, discussion, and writing > 2. Change with continuity > 3.. Realizing that there are parts of the world that one cannot =20 > control, thus reducing stress and anxiety, which can negatively =20 > affect the mind as well as the body > 4. Love > 5. Having a variety of inputs =96 obsession with one thing alone is a =20= > kind of mental cancer > 6. Moderation in everything, including moderation =96 moderation of =20= > reading, of rigorous thought, sexual thoughts, work, play, physical =20= > activity, etc. > 7. Freedom of thought =96 we must not think in shackles, but with =20 > flexible rules > 8. Cleanliness of thought =96 this does not necessarily mean what it =20= > has traditionally meant in the West, though it can certainly =20 > contain some elements; thinking about sex is in and of itself not =20 > unclean > 9. Realization that we do not and cannot live in a sanitized world, =20= > as that stops thought and creativity > 10. Love of thinking > 11. Friends =96 as Aristotle says in Rhetoric, =93a wide circle of =20 > friends, a virtuous circle of friends,=94 and, I would add, a =20 > mentally stimulating circle of friends > 12. Knowledge =96 including self knowledge =96 with the goal of wisdom > > A holy world is one that parallels the healthy body and the healthy =20= > mind, and will have the above qualities, including moderation in =20 > everything, including moderation (i.e., it will be a just world), =20 > freedom (this is freedom from, not freedom to), love, friendship, =20 > and beauty. A holy world is a beautiful world, both having variety =20 > in unity, unity in variety, complexity, and fluid hierarchy that is =20= > self-similar regardless of scale. All of the parts, living in love =20 > and friendship (which does not exclude healthy competition, such as =20= > we find in sports and in free trade), living in a complex dynamic =20 > with each other, living as individuals in various communities, many =20= > of which overlap and are nested within other communities, must be =20 > self-similar to have a holy world. > > In Greek, to kalon means the beautiful, but it can also mean the =20 > honorable or the noble =96 and kala can mean either things that are =20= > beautiful or things that are morally good. In the Rhetoric, =20 > Aristotle says that =93Now kalon describes whatever, through being =20 > chosen for itself, is praiseworthy or whatever, through being good =20 > [agathon], is pleasant because it is good [agathon]. If this, then, =20= > is the kalon, then virtue is necessarily kalon; for it is =20 > praiseworthy because of being good [agathon]=94 (79). Elaine Scarry =20= > points out that in English too, there is a connection between =20 > beauty and the good (the just), when she points out that to say =20 > that something is fair is to say that it is either beautiful or =20 > that it is just. In Greek and in English, the beautiful and the =20 > good are connected. If a holy world is a beautiful world, it is a =20 > good and just world as well. As Heraclitus said, =93For god all =20 > things are fair and just, but men have taken some things as > unjust, others as just=94 (LXVIII). The key here is that we see the =20= > world itself as just =96 not the actions of each and every =20 > individual. The world is itself justified and cannot itself be =20 > unjust. This is consistent with the teachings of any religion that =20 > sees the world as having been created by God or the gods =96 how =20 > could a fair and just god create a world that was itself unjust? =20 > And if theistic religions are rejected, how can the world itself =20 > possibly be unjust? To say it is unjust is to give it =20 > anthropomorphic qualities. It is people who have taken some things =20 > as being just, others as unjust =96 but the world itself is self-=20 > justified. Those who do not see the world as just are those who do =20 > not see the world as holy =96 often they are the same people who =20 > think the only way the world can be justified is if the world is =20 > made holy through the transformation of it into a perfect mirror of =20= > themselves. But we have seen that a world made up of only one > world view is a cancerous world =96 and the world, as a cancerous =20 > organism, will die. An organism cannot consist of one type of cell =20 > =96 that is the unhealthiest of organisms. And a world having only =20 > one world view is the unhealthiest of worlds. In the same way that =20 > a healthy body consists of a variety of cells that are variations =20 > of the same theme coded by identical DNA, a healthy world consists =20 > of a variety of peoples that are variations of the same themes =20 > coded for by our being human and sharing the same cultural universals. > > Beauty is also related to health =96 as we can see in the beauty we =20= > find in nature. Healthy plants produce the most beautiful flowers. =20 > Healthy peacocks produce the largest, most symmetrical, most =20 > colorful feathers. Healthy gobies and other territorial reef fish =20 > have the brightest colors. All of this natural beauty is the =20 > advertisement of health to the opposite sex. The healthiest human =20 > bodies (neither overweight nor super model thin) are the most =20 > beautiful. Thus is there also a relationship between health, =20 > beauty, and sex. If beauty can thus be equated to health, we can =20 > see that beauty is again equated to the holy. And we can see too =20 > that sex in-and-of-itself is and cannot be unholy, as it is =20 > connected (but not equivalent) to beauty. > > A holy world is a whole world. It is a healthy world. It is a good =20 > and just world. It is a complex world. It is a world of individuals =20= > in community. It is a beautiful world. But is it a possible world? =20 > I have already given the answer: the world is itself already holy. =20 > We just have to learn to see it as holy. That is how we will heal =20 > the world. And, as we do, we will become less and less likely to =20 > want or try to eliminate those who disagree with us =96 until we are =20= > all in agreement on this one issue, as all the cells in an organism =20= > are in agreement on the one issue that they must work together for =20 > the health of the whole, even as each performs its own function. =20 > Thus, the world will become more and more holy in our eyes. In =20 > works of tragedy, nomos (convention, human law, naming; from which =20 > we get the words nomad and nomenclature, and which is the changing =20 > and changeable aspect of the world) comes into conflict with physis =20= > (or nature; from which we get the > word physics). That is the position we are now in. When we get =20 > nomos to map onto physis (Heraclitus calls this conjunction logos =96 =20= > which can be translated as saying, speech, discourse, word, =20 > account, explanation, reason, principle, collection, enumeration, =20 > ratio, proportion), we will see the world as it truly is: holy. > > On the Holy > > Where lies the holy in the modern world? > It lies in Blake=92s world in a grain of sand =96 > It lies, and lies like the truth, in patterns > Like self-organized rings of rocks barren > Arctic fields create. It lies in the branch > Of every tree and species, leafing out > =46rom the known into the unknown. It lies > In every song, painting and rhythmic verse. > We have looked at every leaf and petal, > At the bark and at the wood, every cell > And strand of DNA is now known =96 > And we have forgotten that all of this > Was once a tree that gave us shade and filled > The air with delicate sweetness and held > The grains of sand against its roots to hold > The ground in place, even as that ground moves > And changes in tiny ways we refuse > To see. In this we can see the holy. > This is where it lies, now and forever, > On the edge of order and wild chaos, > Where the infinite holds in the finite, > Where we, ourselves holy, have always lived. > > Troy Camplin > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check =20 > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/=20 > welcome.html Jason Quackenbush jfq@myuw.net =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:29:27 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Troy Camplin Subject: Re: On Health, Holiness, Beauty and Poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, Rousseau is high on my list of worst people ever. He is the father of = Marx, the French Revolution, fascism, and every other evil egalitarianist i= deology that's come along since him. Ideologically, I am post-Rousseauean, = which does make me post-almost-everyone-here.=0A=0ATroy Camplin=0A=0A=0A=0A= ________________________________=0AFrom: Murat Nemet-Nejat =0ATo: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=0ASent: Monday, January 12, 2009 12:= 51:47 PM=0ASubject: Re: On Health, Holiness, Beauty and Poetry=0A=0ATroy,= =0A=0AIsn't Rousseau in your worst hundred books in the world list? It is a= mazing=0Ahow you made snide, thought-starved attacks through iconic referen= ces a=0Asecond nature for yourself. In the negative sense you use the word= =0Apost-modern, you are the most post-modern of every one here.=0A=0ACiao,= =0A=0AMurat=0A=0A=0AOn Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 11:32 AM, Troy Camplin wrote:=0A=0A> The spiritual and the holy are two very differ= ent things. One can be=0A> spiritual without being holy. One can also be re= ligious without being holy,=0A> which is of course the entire point of the = essay. An understanding of the=0A> world that unified the thought of Christ= ianity, Buddhism, Taoism (I'm more=0A> than a bit of a Taoist myself), Isla= m, Hinduism, Shintoism, etc. would be an=0A> understanding of the world as = holy. I thus seek to recover the word "holy"=0A> from the unholy ones who h= ave highjacked the term.=0A>=0A> I do agree with you that postmodernism is = in fact in most ways=0A> post-romanticism. Frederick Turner suggests that t= he "post" of postmodern is=0A> shorthand for "postscript" -- as indeed I th= ink it is in many ways. It is=0A> certainly anti-Enlightenment, and thus is= in many ways Romantic, and even=0A> more so, Rousseauean. Indeed, the post= modernists are all disciples of=0A> Rousseau -- but so are the Marxists, th= e fascists, and other egalitarianist=0A> thinkers.=0A>=0A> Troy Camplin=0A>= =0A>=0A>=0A> ________________________________=0A> From: John Cunningham =0A> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=0A> Sent: Sun= day, January 11, 2009 6:50:04 AM=0A> Subject: Re: On Health, Holiness, Beau= ty and Poetry=0A>=0A> Thank you, Troy, for this rather detailed overview on= theology. There are=0A> a=0A> couple of points with which I take exceptio= n.=0A> Being a Buddhist/Taoist, I take exception to your use of the word 'h= oly'. I=0A> would much rather see the word 'spiritual' used as, in my mind,= 'holy' is,=0A> in fact, a divisive word - something which, in opposition t= o, is one of the=0A> main themes of your expurgation.=0A> Another is your d= iscussion of Christianity. Unfortunately, in all things=0A> verging on the = spiritual, the original message of the originator is=0A> corrupted once it = gets into the hands of man. This is true even of Buddhism=0A> where a relig= ion was created where none was intended. The philosophy of=0A> Buddhism and= Taoism is intended to act on an individual basis although the=0A> concept = of the sangha may create confusion. However, when the sangha is=0A> conside= red as a spiritual body there to support the individual in their=0A> quest = for nirvana (nirbbana), then the individual remains paramount.=0A> Finally,= your use of the term 'postmodern'. If we accept Foucault's=0A> concept=0A= > of the rupture and his adoption of the terms 'epoch' as areas in which ne= w=0A> conceptions of old concepts has occurred, then 'modernism' is just an= =0A> extension, the dying breath, of romanticism. Therefore, the correct te= rm=0A> should be 'post-romantic'.=0A> Just some random thoughts.=0A> John H= erbert Cunningham=0A>=0A> -----Original Message-----=0A> From: Poetics List= (UPenn, UB) [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On=0A> Behalf Of Troy Ca= mplin=0A> Sent: January-09-09 11:25 AM=0A> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU= =0A> Subject: On Health, Holiness, Beauty and Poetry=0A>=0A> In English the= words holy, whole, hale, and health are etymologically=0A> connected =96 O= ld English halig, hal, and h=E6lth, respectively, which are all=0A> related= to hal. Thus are they conceptually connected. To see the world as=0A> holy= is to see the world as whole =96 it is to have the world "appear=0A> infin= ite=0A> and holy, whereas it now appears finite and corrupt" (William Blake= , "The=0A> Marriage of Heaven and Hell"). The word holistic comes from the = Greek=0A> holos,=0A> whole. Thus the holy is holistic =96 God is holy becau= se He encompasses all.=0A> Perhaps one could even say that we can recognize= the divine only when we=0A> come to see the world as a whole, when we see = the universe as universal.=0A> When we can come=0A>=0A> To see a World in a= grain of sand,=0A> And a Heaven in a wild flower,=0A> Hold Infinity in the= palm of your hand,=0A> And Eternity in an hour. (William Blake, "Auguries = of Innocence")=0A>=0A> Health and hale is the same. To have health is to ha= ve wholeness. To be=0A> hale=0A> is to be healthy =96 whole and complete. T= o make healthy is to make whole=0A> again. One is healed through medication= .. But ideally, one would rather=0A> maintain one's health than have to with= stand the ravages of medication=0A> (pharmaceutical comes from the Greek ph= armakon, which means both poison and=0A> medicine =96 as it does today), th= ough medication is necessary to stave off=0A> disease. This is the purpose = of Plato's Pharmakon, to stave off disease.=0A> For=0A> disease is the oppo= site of health.=0A>=0A> The Modern Era, which we are still in, though we ma= y be at the end of it,=0A> began when Descartes split man in two =96 body a= nd soul. It was a necessary=0A> division for the development of modern scie= nce (which Descartes all but=0A> admits to =96 the division is so the Churc= h will tend to the soul, while the=0A> body is left alone, to be tended to = by scientists such as Descartes), but=0A> it=0A> was certainly an unholy di= vision (as all divisions are, by definition).=0A> Kant=0A> deepened this di= vision. Hegel tried to mend it through philosophical=0A> synthesis. Marx tr= ied to mend it by recommending the overthrow of half of=0A> the world =96 t= he world would then be wholly Proletarian. Nietzsche responded=0A> to Hegel= by dividing the world up even more =96 for him, humans are not=0A> divided= into body and soul, but are instead a series of masks. With=0A> postmodern= ism, the division is complete: men and women, multiculturalism,=0A> radical= Cartesian individualism divide us up more and more. Any=0A> universality= =0A> is=0A> denied. A necessary development =96 and not without its truth (= I am aware of=0A> the irony of using the word truth, which comes from the O= ld English=0A> treowth,=0A> related to the word troth, from which we get th= e word betrothed, to speak=0A> of=0A> an idea that is more interested in di= vorce than betrothal). But it is=0A> precisely as unholy as one can get.=0A= >=0A> The deep divisions fostered by postmodernism came about because of a = view=0A> that grand narratives, attempts to universalize, and seeing the wo= rld as=0A> holistic created the problems of the 20th Century. The Marxist g= rand=0A> narrative gave us the gulag of the Soviet Union, the massacres of = the Khmer=0A> Rouge in Cambodia, and any number of other slaughters done by= governments=0A> who had embraced Marxist philosophy. We looked back on his= tory after the=0A> Holocaust, saw the grand narrative of Christianity had i= n the past itself=0A> promoted the killing of Jews =96 particularly in the = Inquisition =96 and=0A> concluded that it too was dangerous. One could also= mention The Terror of=0A> the French Revolution. What did Marxism, Medieva= l Christianity, and the=0A> French Revolution have in common? One thing was= that they were all grand=0A> narratives. Thus, the logic goes, it must be = grand narratives which are=0A> bad.=0A> And what do grand narratives do? Th= ey see the world as a whole, which must=0A> be=0A> encompassed by their ide= ology. To make the world a whole, it must be placed=0A> under their one ide= ology. Thus, holistic world views were seen as bad =96=0A> thus=0A> were th= ey, and holiness, rejected. The path to Heaven =96 whether that heaven=0A> = was celestial or earthly =96 seemed to lead us straight into Hell. Perhaps = in=0A> part the rejection of holding a holistic view came about because it = is=0A> related to the holy, and the holy has been rejected. To the extent t= hat=0A> wisdom is the ability to see the unity of the world =96 meaning wis= dom is the=0A> ability to see the world as holy =96 wisdom was also rejecte= d as impossible,=0A> perhaps even undesirable.=0A>=0A> The error in this wa= y of thinking derives from the error made in seeing=0A> Communism, Christia= nity, or the ideals of the French Revolution as=0A> interested in seeing th= e world as holistic. None of them saw the world as=0A> holistic, as holy = =96 they instead wanted to make the world whole, under=0A> their=0A> partic= ular umbrellas. They too fostered divisions =96 there were enemies who=0A> = had to be either converted or killed in order that the world could be made= =0A> holy. "For the cherub with his flaming sword is hereby commanded to le= ave=0A> his guard at tree of life; and when he does, the whole creation wil= l be=0A> consumed and appear infinite and holy" (Blake "The Marriage of Hea= ven and=0A> Hell"). Now Blake here uses the word "appear." None of them saw= the world=0A> as=0A> holy. It had to be made so =96 through conflagration,= if necessary.=0A> Postmodern=0A> thought, by dividing the world even more,= does not help us to see the world=0A> as holy =96 quite the contrary. Howe= ver, by insisting on=0A> equality among the various parts =96 among individ= uals, among cultures, among=0A> religions, among any number of groups of in= dividuals =96 postmodern thought=0A> may ironically make it now possible to= see the world as being, rather than=0A> needing to become, holy.=0A>=0A> I= t may seem ironic to suggest that only by reaching the most severe of=0A> d= ivisions =96 seeing the world as eminently unholy =96 that we can finally c= ome=0A> to see that the world is in fact holy, but I am not being ironic. T= o see=0A> the=0A> world as holy is not to see everything in the world as eq= ual in an=0A> egalitarian sense. There are hierarchies. To see the world as= holy is to=0A> understand how everything fits into the world as a whole. I= t is to see the=0A> world as an immense organism, and to care for its healt= h. An organism is=0A> made up of systems, organs, tissues, cells, organelle= s, and various=0A> biochemicals. For one group to want to envelop the entir= e world in one way=0A> of thinking, believing, viewing the world, would be = the same as one cell=0A> wanting to envelop the entire organism in that one= type of cell. We have a=0A> word for cells that want to do that: cancer. T= he postmodernists have=0A> mistaken viewing the actions of cancerous cells = for seeing the whole=0A> organism. Cancer must=0A> be fought, not mistaken = for the animal it is in. That is the only way one=0A> can have a healthy or= ganism =96 and it is the only way to have a holy world..=0A> Like a healthy= organism, a holy world is complex. Like a healthy organism,=0A> a=0A> holy= world has smoothly working parts in communication with each other=0A> thro= ugh clear rules that proscribe what each part needs to do for the whole=0A>= to work well. Like a healthy organism, this cannot come from any=0A> centr= alized=0A> authority =96 there is no one control cell in the body, and the = brain must=0A> have the lungs just as much as the lungs must have the brain= .. A holy world=0A> is like a healthy organism.=0A>=0A> In Negative Theology= , one comes to know what God is by figuring out what=0A> God=0A> is not. Ar= istotle says that if you are not sure if something is good, try=0A> to=0A> = figure out what is bad, and you can then deduce that what is good is its=0A= > opposite.=0A> The following are unhealthy:=0A>=0A> 1. Overeating, includi= ng eating a high percentage of foods with low=0A> nutritional value, while = remaining inactive (not exercising)=0A> 2. Either stagnation or change with= out continuity =96 both create instability=0A> 3. Stress and anxiety =96 wh= ich comes about from not realizing that there are=0A> parts of the world th= at one cannot control, and can lead to anger at those=0A> very things=0A> 4= .. Hatred =96 aside from raising the blood pressure, it can cause one to act= =0A> in ways that would be unhealthy for the object of our hatred=0A> 5. Ca= ncer =96 already discussed=0A> 6. Excess =96 including the excess of modera= tion=0A> 7. Shackles =96 prevents sufficient movement, equating to lack of = exercise=0A> 8. Pollution =96 it can lead to any number of diseases=0A> 9. = An overly-clean environment =96 it can prevent our immune systems from=0A> = developing properly, making us more susceptible to diseases, especially=0A>= autoimmune diseases=0A> 10. Suicide =96 inherently and obviously unhealthy= =0A> 11.. Isolation =96 loneliness can lead to depression, which depresses = the=0A> immune system=0A> 12. Ignorance =96 either of the world or of onese= lf, as one cannot maintain=0A> one's health if one is ignorant of what can = harm it or improve it=0A>=0A> This leads one to posit the following are hea= lthy:=0A>=0A> 1. Exercise, with a diet proper to the amount of exercise and= of high=0A> nutritional value=0A> 2. Change with continuity=0A> 3. Realizi= ng that there are parts of the world that one cannot control,=0A> thus=0A> = reducing stress and anxiety=0A> 4. Love=0A> 5. Keeping the body in hierarch= ical harmony=0A> 6. Moderation in everything, including moderation =96 reme= mbering that=0A> moderation is an extreme in the same way that life is an e= xtreme state of=0A> organic chemistry=0A> 7. Freedom =96 remembering that f= reedom does not equate to a lack of rules,=0A> but is rather what is achiev= ed through playing by the best rules=0A> 8. Cleanliness (which, as the sayi= ng goes, is next to Godliness, meaning it=0A> is holy)=0A> 9. A non-sanitiz= ed world =96 a world without dirt is a world that makes=0A> unhealthy organ= isms=0A> 10. Love of one's own life=0A> 11. Friends=0A> 12. Knowledge =96 i= ncluding self-knowledge=0A>=0A> One can make a similar list of what makes f= or a healthy mind:=0A> 1. Taking in healthy information =96 good art, music= , literature, philosophy,=0A> the sciences, etc. =96 with sufficient exerci= se of the mind through thought,=0A> discussion, and writing=0A> 2. Change w= ith continuity=0A> 3.. Realizing that there are parts of the world that one= cannot control,=0A> thus reducing stress and anxiety, which can negatively= affect the mind as=0A> well as the body=0A> 4. Love=0A> 5. Having a variet= y of inputs =96 obsession with one thing alone is a kind of=0A> mental canc= er=0A> 6. Moderation in everything, including moderation =96 moderation of = reading,=0A> of rigorous thought, sexual thoughts, work, play, physical act= ivity, etc.=0A> 7. Freedom of thought =96 we must not think in shackles, bu= t with flexible=0A> rules=0A> 8. Cleanliness of thought =96 this does not n= ecessarily mean what it has=0A> traditionally meant in the West, though it = can certainly contain some=0A> elements; thinking about sex is in and of it= self not unclean=0A> 9. Realization that we do not and cannot live in a san= itized world, as that=0A> stops thought and creativity=0A> 10. Love of thin= king=0A> 11. Friends =96 as Aristotle says in Rhetoric, "a wide circle of f= riends, a=0A> virtuous circle of friends," and, I would add, a mentally sti= mulating=0A> circle=0A> of friends=0A> 12. Knowledge =96 including self kno= wledge =96 with the goal of wisdom=0A>=0A> A holy world is one that paralle= ls the healthy body and the healthy mind,=0A> and will have the above quali= ties, including moderation in everything,=0A> including moderation (i.e., i= t will be a just world), freedom (this is=0A> freedom from, not freedom to)= , love, friendship, and beauty. A holy world=0A> is=0A> a beautiful world, = both having variety in unity, unity in variety,=0A> complexity, and fluid h= ierarchy that is self-similar regardless of scale.=0A> All of the parts, li= ving in love and friendship (which does not exclude=0A> healthy competition= , such as we find in sports and in free trade), living=0A> in=0A> a complex= dynamic with each other, living as individuals in various=0A> communities,= many of which overlap and are nested within other communities,=0A> must be= self-similar to have a holy world.=0A>=0A> In Greek, to kalon means the be= autiful, but it can also mean the honorable=0A> or the noble =96 and kala c= an mean either things that are beautiful or things=0A> that are morally goo= d. In the Rhetoric, Aristotle says that "Now kalon=0A> describes whatever, = through being chosen for itself, is praiseworthy or=0A> whatever, through b= eing good [agathon], is pleasant because it is good=0A> [agathon]. If this,= then, is the kalon, then virtue is necessarily kalon;=0A> for it is praise= worthy because of being good [agathon]" (79). Elaine Scarry=0A> points out = that in English too, there is a connection between beauty and=0A> the=0A> g= ood (the just), when she points out that to say that something is fair is= =0A> to say that it is either beautiful or that it is just. In Greek and in= =0A> English, the beautiful and the good are connected. If a holy world is = a=0A> beautiful world, it is a good and just world as well. As Heraclitus s= aid,=0A> "For god all things are fair and just, but men have taken some thi= ngs as=0A> unjust, others as just" (LXVIII). The key here is that we see th= e world=0A> itself as just =96 not the actions of each and every individual= .. The world is=0A> itself justified and cannot itself be unjust. This is co= nsistent with the=0A> teachings of any religion that sees the world as havi= ng been created by God=0A> or the gods =96 how could a fair and just god cr= eate a world that was itself=0A> unjust? And if theistic religions are reje= cted, how can the world itself=0A> possibly be unjust? To say it is unjust = is to give it anthropomorphic=0A> qualities. It is people who have taken so= me things as being just, others as=0A> unjust =96 but the world itself is s= elf-justified. Those who do not see the=0A> world as just are those who do = not see the world as holy =96 often they are=0A> the same people who think = the only way the world can be justified is if the=0A> world is made holy th= rough the transformation of it into a perfect mirror=0A> of=0A> themselves.= But we have seen that a world made up of only one=0A> world view is a canc= erous world =96 and the world, as a cancerous organism,=0A> will die. An or= ganism cannot consist of one type of cell =96 that is the=0A> unhealthiest = of organisms. And a world having only one world view is the=0A> unhealthies= t of worlds. In the same way that a healthy body consists of a=0A> variety = of cells that are variations of the same theme coded by identical=0A> DNA, = a healthy world consists of a variety of peoples that are variations=0A> of= =0A> the same themes coded for by our being human and sharing the same cult= ural=0A> universals.=0A>=0A> Beauty is also related to health =96 as we can= see in the beauty we find in=0A> nature. Healthy plants produce the most b= eautiful flowers. Healthy peacocks=0A> produce the largest, most symmetrica= l, most colorful feathers. Healthy=0A> gobies and other territorial reef fi= sh have the brightest colors. All of=0A> this natural beauty is the adverti= sement of health to the opposite sex. The=0A> healthiest human bodies (neit= her overweight nor super model thin) are the=0A> most beautiful. Thus is th= ere also a relationship between health, beauty,=0A> and sex. If beauty can = thus be equated to health, we can see that beauty is=0A> again equated to t= he holy. And we can see too that sex in-and-of-itself is=0A> and cannot be = unholy, as it is connected (but not equivalent) to beauty.=0A>=0A> A holy w= orld is a whole world. It is a healthy world. It is a good and just=0A> wor= ld. It is a complex world. It is a world of individuals in community. It=0A= > is a beautiful world. But is it a possible world? I have already given th= e=0A> answer: the world is itself already holy. We just have to learn to se= e it=0A> as=0A> holy. That is how we will heal the world. And, as we do, we= will become=0A> less=0A> and less likely to want or try to eliminate those= who disagree with us =96=0A> until we are all in agreement on this one iss= ue, as all the cells in an=0A> organism are in agreement on the one issue t= hat they must work together for=0A> the health of the whole, even as each p= erforms its own function. Thus, the=0A> world will become more and more hol= y in our eyes. In works of tragedy,=0A> nomos=0A> (convention, human law, n= aming; from which we get the words nomad and=0A> nomenclature, and which is= the changing and changeable aspect of the world)=0A> comes into conflict w= ith physis (or nature; from which we get the=0A> word physics). That is the= position we are now in. When we get nomos to map=0A> onto physis (Heraclit= us calls this conjunction logos =96 which can be=0A> translated as saying, = speech, discourse, word, account, explanation,=0A> reason,=0A> principle, c= ollection, enumeration, ratio, proportion), we will see the=0A> world as it= truly is: holy.=0A>=0A> On the Holy=0A>=0A> Where lies the holy in the mod= ern world?=0A> It lies in Blake's world in a grain of sand =96=0A> It lies,= and lies like the truth, in patterns=0A> Like self-organized rings of rock= s barren=0A> Arctic fields create. It lies in the branch=0A> Of every tree = and species, leafing out=0A> From the known into the unknown. It lies=0A> I= n every song, painting and rhythmic verse.=0A> We have looked at every leaf= and petal,=0A> At the bark and at the wood, every cell=0A> And strand of D= NA is now known =96=0A> And we have forgotten that all of this=0A> Was once= a tree that gave us shade and filled=0A> The air with delicate sweetness a= nd held=0A> The grains of sand against its roots to hold=0A> The ground in = place, even as that ground moves=0A> And changes in tiny ways we refuse=0A>= To see. In this we can see the holy.=0A> This is where it lies, now and fo= rever,=0A> On the edge of order and wild chaos,=0A> Where the infinite hold= s in the finite,=0A> Where we, ourselves holy, have always lived.=0A>=0A> T= roy Camplin=0A>=0A> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A> The Poetics List is mo= derated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines=0A> & sub/unsub info:= http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A>=0A> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=0A> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check= guidelines=0A> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.ht= ml=0A>=0A>=0A> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A> The Poetics List is moderate= d & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines=0A> & sub/unsub info: http:= //epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A>=0A=0A=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =0AThe Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guideli= nes & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 18:41:18 -0800 Reply-To: steph484@pacbell.net Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Stephen Vincent Subject: OOPs: Stephen Vincent's "Haptics" - Braunstein-Quay Gallery, San Francisco Comments: To: UK POETRY , "Poetryetc: poetry and poetics" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Anxieties of the young artist! Hit 'send' too soon. Please, again, read on! If you are in the San Francisco Bay Area (or have friends here) I invite yo= u to come to the opening for my show, "Haptics", at the Braunstein-Quay Gal= lery.=A0 3 - 5, Saturday afternoon, at 430 Clementina Street (Between 5th &= 6th, parallel and in-between Howard and Folsom Streets). Show will be up t= hrough February 21.=20 For a jpeg of the Gallery Announcement as well scans of recent haptics, go = to my blog: http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ Look forward to seeing you.=20 Stephen Vincent =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 21:48:05 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: CA Conrad Subject: Kathleen Fraser's THE CARS.... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline This was a fantastic experience, doing this not-so-close reading of THE CARS with Kristen, Jessica and Al. Below is the UPenn/PENNSOUND recording, sent out by Al Filreis. CAConrad ------------- Now releasing... PoemTalk's thirteenth episode is a discussion of Kathleen Fraser's "The Cars" featuring CAConrad, Kristen Gallagher, and Jessica Lowenthal. 1) At the Poetry Foundation audio & podcasts page: http://www.poetryfoundation.org/journal/audioitem.html?id=685 2) At the PoemTalk blog: http://www.poemtalk.org 3) In the iTunes Music Store: search for "PoemTalk" and subscribe. Next up is Episode #14, on Wallace Stevens' "Not Ideas about the Thing But the Thing Itself" with Nada Gordon, Charles Bernstein and Lawrence Joseph. - Al Filreis ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 19:14:19 -0800 Reply-To: Laurie Schneider & Crag Hill Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Laurie Schneider & Crag Hill Subject: Re: Can "nature" poetry be postmodern/post-structural? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'd duggest James Galvin, esp. poems in Lethal Frequencies. Forrest Gander's work might fit, too. Best, Crag Hill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Jo Malo" To: Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 11:48 AM Subject: Can "nature" poetry be postmodern/post-structural? > Recently read Richard Louv's "Last Child In The Woods:Saving Our > Children from Nature-Deficit Disorder" (2005,2008) and he references > Wordsworth, and of course, Gary Snyder. And just this morning I found > this: > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2008/dec/27/nick-laird-poetry-nature > > Can anyone suggest poets, critiques, etc. re: non-traditional nature > poetry? > > Mary Jo Malo > > -- > http://thisshiningwound.blogspot.com/ > http://apophisdeconstructingabsurdity.blogspot.com/ > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.6/1889 - Release Date: 1/12/2009 8:18 PM ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 19:14:51 -0800 Reply-To: sdunnhensley@yahoo.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: susan dunn-hensley Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ruth- =A0 For what it's worth, Ruth. I think you raised some valid points. =A0 Susan --- On Mon, 1/12/09, Ruth Lepson wrote: From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Monday, January 12, 2009, 3:31 PM there is a sweetheart--Tim Peterson. thank you, esp as I'm too busy to continue this discussion. love ruth wish we COULD. On 1/12/09 8:27 AM, "Tim Peterson" wrote: > Adam! Ruth! Two of my dearest friends...it makes me feel terrible to see you > guys fighting like this! The Poetry Brothel is not worth getting this upset > about. Let's all kick back in my living room with a mug of coco and listen > to Gloria Steinheim records backwards. How about this evening? >=20 > Love, Tim >=20 > Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 23:49:49 -0500 > From: Ruth Lepson > Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory >=20 > twisting my words! > so writing about objections to prostitution does nothing, huh--so words > don't matter? > I think all those jobs are degrading. > I wd like to defend yr friends by getting them better jobs. > I am not criticizing these women. > Better working conditions wd be not having to succumb to male ideas of > sexuality in our culture, such narrow constraints. >=20 >=20 >=20 > On 1/9/09 5:49 PM, "Adam Tobin" wrote: >=20 >> but you were the one crying shame! on the women of the Poetry Brothel! for >> dressing like whores! >>=20 >> (please note that I am NOT arguing that prostitution is not a sexist >> institution. clearly it is. and i agree that it is part of a complex of >> normative heterosexuality that does terrible violence to all women.=20 But > as >> for the actual women who are living in actual slavery, i think complaining >> about the symbolic degrading of womankind does nothing for them: it's like >> trying to improve the safety of coal mines by complaining about climate >> change. >>=20 >> And if you're just using those women (who are very real, and many of them >> living in absolutely horrific situations, as you rightly pointed out) as >> symbols of Degraded Womankind, you are doing a disservice to them and also >> to the many many women (some of whom must be subscribers to this list) who >> work in other parts of the sex trade -- exotic dancers, high-end > call-girls, >> dominatrices, nude housekeepers, pornographic models, hooters waitresses, >> etc. -- some of these people are my friends and i take it personally -- > and >> I think that their own struggles for better working conditions are not >> unrelated to the struggle against slavery in other parts of their bosses' >> businesses... >>=20 >> -- but i'm sorry that i overreacted and became part of a litany of men > (all >> men! really! can it really be that there are no women here who work in > the >> sex trade??) who are all seemingly trying to justify the institution as an >> institution. I am not trying to justify it, just trying to defend my >> friends who work there from the harsh judgments of their elders... >>=20 >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 18:43:08 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: peter ganick Subject: place to send experimental words/texts. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline there's some new texts on peter ganick's literary blog: http://pganickz.livejournal.com click on the link to have a look and read. send me some words/text. send all mail to they'll be online within a few days. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 19:21:55 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Dan Glass Subject: Re: Can "nature" poetry be postmodern/post-structural? Comments: To: Laurie Schneider & Crag Hill In-Reply-To: <8F97442921C64B70A585995A77C02261@antec> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Juliana Spahr, for sure-- in some ways I think she's asking precisely this question in her poetry. I talk a bit about the possibility of a radical nature poetry in my review of Ange Mlinko in the current Jacket--- http://jacketmagazine.com/36/r-mlinko-rb-thomas-glass.shtml Best,,, Dan On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 7:14 PM, Laurie Schneider & Crag Hill < schneider-hill@roadrunner.com> wrote: > I'd duggest James Galvin, esp. poems in Lethal Frequencies. Forrest > Gander's work might fit, too. > > Best, Crag Hill > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Jo Malo" > To: > Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 11:48 AM > Subject: Can "nature" poetry be postmodern/post-structural? > > > > Recently read Richard Louv's "Last Child In The Woods:Saving Our >> Children from Nature-Deficit Disorder" (2005,2008) and he references >> Wordsworth, and of course, Gary Snyder. And just this morning I found >> this: >> >> http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2008/dec/27/nick-laird-poetry-nature >> >> Can anyone suggest poets, critiques, etc. re: non-traditional nature >> poetry? >> >> Mary Jo Malo >> >> -- >> http://thisshiningwound.blogspot.com/ >> http://apophisdeconstructingabsurdity.blogspot.com/ >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.6/1889 - Release Date: 1/12/2009 > 8:18 PM > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 19:44:29 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: Can "nature" poetry be postmodern/post-structural? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline broaden it out to "eco poetics / poetry" & also to poets who merely have the natural world, landscape, plants, etc. as some of many subjects, and then find oh, about a million poets -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly@gmail.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 18:34:30 -0800 Reply-To: steph484@pacbell.net Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Stephen Vincent's "Haptics" - Braunstein-Quay Gallery, San Francisco Comments: cc: UK POETRY , "Poetryetc: poetry and poetics" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If you are in the San Francisco Bay Area (or have friends here) I invite yo= u to come to the opening for my show, "Haptics", at the Braunstein-Quay Gal= lery.=A0 3 - 5, Saturday afternoon, at=A0=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 19:47:26 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Comments: RFC822 error: Invalid RFC822 field - "=". Rest of header flushed. From: Cara Benson Subject: Re: Can "nature" poetry be postmodern/post-structural? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable spots in Brenda Hillman's work=0A=A0=0A=A0=0A=A0=0A=A0=0A=A0=0A=A0=0A=A0=0A= =0A=0A__________=0A=0Ahttp://www.necessetics.com=0A=0Ahttp://www.necessetic= s.com/sousrature.html=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AF= rom: Dan Glass =0ATo: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.ED= U=0ASent: Monday, January 12, 2009 10:21:55 PM=0ASubject: Re: Can "nature" = poetry be postmodern/post-structural?=0A=0AJuliana Spahr, for sure-- in som= e ways I think she's asking precisely this=0Aquestion in her poetry.=0A=0AI= talk a bit about the possibility of a radical nature poetry in my review= =0Aof Ange Mlinko in the current Jacket---=0A=0Ahttp://jacketmagazine.com/3= 6/r-mlinko-rb-thomas-glass.shtml=0A=0ABest,,,=0A=0ADan=0A=0AOn Mon, Jan 12,= 2009 at 7:14 PM, Laurie Schneider & Crag Hill <=0Aschneider-hill@roadrunne= r.com> wrote:=0A=0A> I'd duggest James Galvin, esp. poems in Lethal Frequen= cies. Forrest=0A> Gander's work might fit, too.=0A>=0A> Best, Crag Hill=0A>= =0A> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Jo Malo" =0A> To: =0A> Sent: Monday, January 12, 200= 9 11:48 AM=0A> Subject: Can "nature" poetry be postmodern/post-structural?= =0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=A0 Recently read Richard Louv's "Last Child In The Woods:S= aving Our=0A>> Children from Nature-Deficit Disorder" (2005,2008) and he re= ferences=0A>> Wordsworth, and of course, Gary Snyder. And just this morning= I found=0A>> this:=0A>>=0A>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2008/dec/27/n= ick-laird-poetry-nature=0A>>=0A>> Can anyone suggest poets, critiques, etc.= re: non-traditional nature=0A>> poetry?=0A>>=0A>> Mary Jo Malo=0A>>=0A>> -= -=0A>> http://thisshiningwound.blogspot.com/=0A>> http://apophisdeconstruct= ingabsurdity.blogspot.com/=0A>>=0A>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A>> The= Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check=0A>> guidelin= es & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A>>=0A>= =0A>=0A>=0A> --------------------------------------------------------------= ------------------=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> No virus found in this incoming message.= =0A> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com=0A> Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Datab= ase: 270.10.6/1889 - Release Date: 1/12/2009=0A> 8:18 PM=0A>=0A>=0A> =3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept a= ll posts. Check guidelines=0A> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poe= tics/welcome.html=0A>=0A=0A=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0AThe Poetics List i= s moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info:= http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 20:03:54 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Elizabeth Switaj Subject: Re: Can "nature" poetry be postmodern/post-structural? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This was, to a large extent, the subject I was working through in my Ypolita Press chapbook, The Broken Sanctuary: Nature Poems http://ypolitapress.blogspot.com/2007/03/forthcoming-imminently.html Elizabeth Kate Switaj www.elizabethkateswitaj.net ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 23:21:04 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Can "nature" poetry be postmodern/post-structural? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed A lot of us draw our imagery and more from the apparently non-human landscape, and it's where I'm happiest, but it's questionable if there really is a non-human landscape. The woodlands next to my apartment is usually described as "the last natural forest in Manhattan." It's certainly a forest, and it's been managed hardly at all for the past two centuries, but it contains plants that never would have coexisted without post-conquest human presence. That presence has become everywhere more intrusive, but one would have to go back very far to find a landscape not radically altered by humans. The Lenape who once inhabited my forest altered it by burning the undergrowth to improve hunting. The great "virgin" forest that once stretched to the Mississippi and beyond was managed as an enormous game park. So I guess the first question might be, "what do you mean 'nature?'" We generally mean an uncultivated plant and animal community, and in some places a community in which we've allowed predators other than ourselves to survive. It's our forebearance that more or less preserves it, like a progressive zoo. Mark At 02:48 PM 1/12/2009, you wrote: >Recently read Richard Louv's "Last Child In The Woods:Saving Our >Children from Nature-Deficit Disorder" (2005,2008) and he references >Wordsworth, and of course, Gary Snyder. And just this morning I found >this: > >http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2008/dec/27/nick-laird-poetry-nature > >Can anyone suggest poets, critiques, etc. re: non-traditional nature poetry? > >Mary Jo Malo > >-- >http://thisshiningwound.blogspot.com/ >http://apophisdeconstructingabsurdity.blogspot.com/ > >================================== >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 00:39:17 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: jared schickling Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_56126847-ee13-4d0e-bc8e-0eac77f1d200_" MIME-Version: 1.0 --_56126847-ee13-4d0e-bc8e-0eac77f1d200_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 I've been following the discussion only sporadically=2C so please forgive a= ny redundancy=2C but=2C the well-known "Effects of Prolonged Consumption of= Pornography" and other studies suggest that in places where pornography is= legal and increasingly popular there is a corresponding decrease in the in= cidence of violent sexual crimes. As if the medium could allow for the saf= e channeling of certain repressed and thereby sinister desires. However=2C= many observers attribute said decreased incidence to a greater leniency in= attitudes towards sexual behavior and an inability=2C or unwillingness=2C = to interpret sex crimes as such. In this regard=2C where pornography is wi= dely consumed=2C we might note the evolution of more exotic and aggressive = forms of it (think anus=2C gangbang=2C shit in the mouth). =20 =20 Though pornography and prostitution aren't the same thing=2C perhaps the sa= me principle holds true. The more the thing is permitted=2C the more borin= g it gets=2C and so=2C the more deviant and illicit and forbidden its form = must take. Or in other terms=2C hunger (out of boredom) ensures the creati= on (and delivery) of new products. The more we're ok with prostitution=2C = the more we're ok with whatever treatment the prostitute receives=2C and th= e more novel treatments we'll surely find. Let the free market rule. Afte= r all they're just a muscle. =20 =20 Jared Schickling =20 =20 =20 > Date: Tue=2C 13 Jan 2009 00:00:38 -0500> From: LISTSERV@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.= EDU> Subject: POETICS Digest - 11 Jan 2009 to 12 Jan 2009 (#2009-10)> To: P= OETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> > There are 41 messages totalling 4675 lines i= n this issue.> > Topics of the day:> > 1. Want your poem to reach nearly tw= o million people?> 2. Eyeless in Gaza> 3. Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Fact= ory (5)> 4. Adam (2)> 5. please post> 6. On Health=2C Holiness=2C Beauty an= d Poetry (5)> 7. Oppen quote - help! (2)> 8. Prostitution in Sweden> 9. [am= anda_earl@storm.ca: AngelHousePress Essay Series=2C # 1]> 10. STEEL PUDDING= anthology gives voice to African-American life in Gary=2C> Indiana at 3rd = Saturday Coffeehouse Jan. 17th> 11. Fwd: [WOM-PO] CFP: UCLA indigenous conn= ections> 12. Microsoft Songsmith> 13. AngelHousePress Essay Series> 14. Joh= n Beer @ Seven Corners> 15. Third Thursday Poetry Night -- Nicole Karas=2C = Open Mic> 16. Joan Silber & Mike DeCapite read NYC 2-5> 17. Stain of Poetry= : A Reading Series -- January's Stars!> 18. getting ON> 19. gene robinson t= o give invocation at inauguration> 20. TONIGHT @ THE POETRY PROJECT: Cyrus = Console & Jessica Dessner> 21. Literary Buffalo Newsletter 01.12.09-01.18.0= 9> 22. for all those new yorkers in the house...> 23. PoemTalk #13: Kathlee= n Fraser's "The Cars"> 24. Can "nature" poetry be postmodern/post-structura= l? (4)> 25. getting inauguerated> 26. OOPs: Stephen Vincent's "Haptics" - B= raunstein-Quay Gallery=2C San> Francisco> 27. Kathleen Fraser's THE CARS...= .> 28. place to send experimental words/texts.> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guide= lines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html> > ----= ------------------------------------------------------------------> > Date:= Mon=2C 12 Jan 2009 07:09:13 -0800> From: amy king > = Subject: Want your poem to reach nearly two million people?> > Want your wo= rds to reach nearly two million people?=3D20> > Goodreads and the =3DA1Poet= ry! group have partnered to create a contest in or=3D> der to select a new = poem each month for our newsletter.=3D20> http://www.goodreads.com/group/sh= ow/233._POETRY_> > 1. Post your best poem (one poem per person) in this fol= der.> > 2. Goodreads and I will select five poems each month to be voted on= by the =3D> Goodreads community.> > 3. =3DA1Poetry! group members will vot= e for the poem they like best (one vote=3D> per member) once the poll with = the five finalists' poems are posted. The p=3D> oem with the most votes wil= l be published in the Goodreads=3D92 newsletter =3D> =3D96 distributed each= month to nearly 2 million people!> > Good luck & please post your best wor= k!> > Thanks=2C> > Amy King> =3DA1Poetry! Moderator=3D20> > > http://www.go= odreads.com/group/show/233._POETRY_> > > _______> > > > > > Recent work> > = http://www.writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/King.html> > > > Amy's Alias> > ht= tp://amyking.org/=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A > > =3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D= 3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D= 3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D> The Poetics List= is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub inf= o: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html> > -------------------------= -----> > Date: Sat=2C 10 Jan 2009 12:49:05 -0800> From: Stephen Vincent > Subject: Re: Eyeless in Gaza> > It is no longer 'Eyele= ss in Gaza" - Israel's attempts to keep the media out=3D> of Gaza notwithst= anding=2C on the outside we have more than an absolutely aw=3D> ful 'Eyeful= ' now. Even from the standpoint of traditional Ghetto (Occupatio=3D> n) man= agement standards=2C the carnage of Palestinians=2C plus buildings=2C=3DA0 = in=3D> frastructure and homes is an absolute outrage and failure. In terms = of Amer=3D> ican racial history=2C Gaza in many ways so much echos Kansas C= ity=2C Watts=2C De=3D> troit and any number of other ghetto uprisings that = have been mercilessly c=3D> aused and the repressions of which have been me= rcilessly executed.=3DA0=3D20> > As Hitler & Company envisioned Jews as a p= ermanent threat to some concept o=3D> f German purity=2C progress=2C etc.= =2C what does the Israeli leadership=2C such as =3D> it is=2C seek to elimi= nate in Gaza! =3DA0=3D20> > Going back to the '60's in California=3DA0 I ca= n remember racist Governor Ron=3D> ald Regan & company hearing and magnifyi= ng the 'threat'=3DA0 of separatist an=3D> d armed Black militants.=3DA0 Ins= tead of figuring out ways to negotiate and d=3D> eal with the real issues i= nside ghetto communities=2C they responded in the=3D> =3DA0 same heavy hand= ed paranoid manner that Israel's right wing is respondin=3D> g=3DA0 to Hama= s - that is by demonizing and (now obviously)=3DA0 seeking their =3D> liqui= dation on all levels - institutional=2C cultural=2C etc. etc.=3DA0 As if th= i=3D> s kind of punishment has ever been successful - short run=2C maybe ye= s=2C but l=3D> ong term most always a form of national self-poisoning. (i.e= .=2C witness the =3D> wonderful=2C self-destructing condition of the USA to= day! )=3D20> > & all with the final 'last days' support of support of Georg= e Bush and Dick=3D> Cheney - and all 'in our name'.=3DA0 =3DA0 Again.> > Wa= tch Israel withdraw from Gaza on the day before the Inauguration. Astonis= =3D> hing (or not)=3DA0 what garbage these people are dumping into Obama's = White H=3D> ouse the week before he moves in! Oy!> > Stephen Vincent> http:= //stephenvincent.net/blog/> > > > =3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D= =3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D= =3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D> The Poetics List i= s moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info:= http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html> > ---------------------------= ---> > Date: Sun=2C 11 Jan 2009 00:16:02 -0500> From: Ruth Lepson > Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory> > who's= judging men & women for trying to get each others' attention?> there are a= n infinite number of ways of doing that=2C I suppose. I myself used> to be = very good at it.> the best party I ever went to was given by a crazy gal do= ing> off-broadway--she brought her troupe to town & they brought their cost= umes &> put them all over the floor. every hour we had to change outfits. w= e cd> combine anything with anything. that was liberating.> > > On 1/8/09 1= 1:12 PM=2C "Mark Weiss" wrote:> > > When we all we= ar golden slippers and are pure of heart things may be> > different. Til th= en even women get to enjoy whatever fantasy. Though> > I imagine some will = deconstruct their motives.> > > > Years ago I was invited to a party in the= Hamptons. Turns out it was> > a "lingerie and toga" party. Nobody told me= =2C so I wasn't dressed> > appropriately. It was a lot of young professiona= ls=2C dressed as the> > name suggests. It was very sad=2C not because of th= e indecorous> > clothes=2C but because it was otherwise crushingly decorous= . Go figure.> > > > Young men and women are in the business of getting each= others'> > attention. Appears to be instinctual. Seems a shame to judge th= em for it.> > > > Mark> > > > At 10:08 PM 1/8/2009=2C Ruth Lepson wrote:> >= > but WHY something gets you off is the question.> >> > >> > >> On 1/8/09 6= :37 PM=2C "Mark Weiss" wrote:> >> > >>> I'm not su= re what you're objecting to=2C as you seem to be paraphrasing> >>> what I s= aid. In the best of all possible worlds there would probably> >>> be some v= oluntary prostitution=2C but I'd still wonder at the> >>> psychological cos= t to those who chose to make their living that way.> >>> Choosing to playac= t at prostitution=2C like the women in the poetry> >>> brothel=2C is simply= fantasy=2C and no more destructive=2C I'd think=2C than> >>> wearing a pir= ate costume. It's under the category of "whatever> >> gets you off."> >>> >= >>> Mark> >>> > >>> At 01:45 PM 1/8/2009=2C steve russell wrote:> >>>> int= eresting distinction: Genet did a number with the fantasy realm.> >>>> But = what=2C exactly=2C do you mean=2C Mark=2C by the fantasy of> >>>> prostitut= ion? Phone sex? I suppose that's somewhat harmless. But> >>>> that ain't th= e real thing. When it's real=2C as in the sex trade=2C> >>>> we're talking = ugly/ugly/ugly.> >>>> > >>>> --- On Tue=2C 1/6/09=2C Mark Weiss wrote:> >>>> From: Mark Weiss > >>>> = Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory> >>>> To: POETICS@LISTSER= V.BUFFALO.EDU> >>>> Date: Tuesday=2C January 6=2C 2009=2C 11:41 PM> >>>> > = >>>> I think we need to make a distinction between prostitution and the> >>= >> fantasy of prostitution. Most prostitution is compelled or a response> >= >>> to desperation. Most fantasy prostitution=2C playing dress-up and the> = >>>> like=2C isn't.> >>>> > >>>> At 02:34 PM 1/6/2009=2C you wrote:> >>>>> = I saw reference in there to men and gigolos. I have a problem> >> with the = old> >>>>> school "sex degrades women" feminist argument. Is a the location= > >>>> of a> >>>>> brothel and the profession of prostitution *always* and = inherently> >>>> degrading> >>>>> to women? I thought there were sex-positi= ve feminists who were working> >>>>> against that idea.> >>>>> > >>>>> ----= -Original Message-----> >>>>> From: steve russell [mailto:poet_in_hell@YAHO= O.COM]> >>>>> Sent: Sunday=2C December 21=2C 2008 5:49 PM> >>>>> Subject: R= e: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory> >>>>> > >>>>> this seems pretty li= ght hearted.> >>>>> I'm sorry to hear about the wicked (objects=2C et ceter= a) capitalist.> >>>>> i suspect that the most die hard feminist could enjoy= her/himself.> >>>>> > >>>>> --- On Fri=2C 12/19/08=2C mIEKAL aND wrote:> >>>>> From: mIEKAL aND > >>>>= > Subject: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory> >>>>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV= .BUFFALO.EDU> >>>>> Date: Friday=2C December 19=2C 2008=2C 4:15 PM> >>>>> >= >>>>> New York poetry brothel tempts with verse> >>>>> > >>>>> Published: = Friday December 19=2C 2008> >>>>> > >>>>> > >> http://rawstory.com/news/afp= /New_York_poetry_brothel_tempts_with_12192008.ht> >>>>> ml> >>>>> > >>>>> T= he prostitute whispers=2C wets her lips and prepares to bare... her heart> = >>>>> with a> >>>>> poem.> >>>>> > >>>>> Welcome to New York's Poetry Broth= el=2C where punters delve between the> >>>>> lines=2C not the sheets.> >>>>= > > >>>>> At a weekend session in a Manhattan night club called the Zipper = Factory> >>>> the> >>>>> look was bona fide bordello.> >>>>> > >>>>> Litera= ry ladies of the night flitted between intimate=2C candle-lit nooks=2C> >>>= > red> >>>>> lights and paintings of nudes.> >>>>> > >>>>> Some of the poet= esses for sale sported retro-style garter belts> >> and frilly> >>>>> knick= ers. One swanned about in a top hat and feather boa.> >>>>> > >>>>> But tra= nsactions at the Poetry Brothel are of the mind=2C not the> >> body=2C and = a> >>>>> moment with the catalogue=2C replete with pictures and whimsical> = >>>> descriptions=2C> >>>>> reveals what's on offer.> >>>>> > >>>>> Page fo= ur boasts The Professor=2C swearing to have heard "the wail of> >>>> your> = >>>>> striving heart drifting over the spires of skyscrapers."> >>>>> > >>>= >> Harriett Van Os on page 10 promises to "tell you secrets she> >>>> doesn= 't> >>>>> know she knows." Cecille Ballroom tempts punters on page 13 claim= ing> >>>> she> >>>>> can "coax your drum."> >>>>> > >>>>> Gigolo poets are = available=2C not least Poetry Brothel co-founder Nicholas> >>>>> Adamski=2C= who goes by the name Tennessee Pink and tops tempestuous=2C dark> >>>>> lo= oks> >>>>> with an eye patch.> >>>>> > >>>>> "Poetry is what I love more th= an anything=2C" cooed The Madame=2C the> >>>>> sultry spirit behind the who= le idea.> >>>>> > >>>>> The Madame -- real name Stephanie Berger -- came dr= essed for the part in> >>>>> low-cut dress=2C elbow-length black gloves and= a peacock headdress.> >>>>> > >>>>> "I'd rather be in the bedroom hearing = poetry than listening to> >>>> some> >>>>> old man sitting on a chair on a = stage=2C" she explained by the light of> >>>> a> >>>>> guttering candle.> >= >>>> > >>>>> One-on-one encounters=2C for which "clients" pay three to five= > >>>> dollars> >>>>> in addition to a 15 dollar entry fee and one free rea= ding=2C took place> >>>>> upstairs.> >>>>> > >>>>> The "whores" read from t= heir own material=2C much of which is free> >>>>> verse=2C making for inten= se=2C sometimes baffling performances.> >>>>> > >>>>> But for those needing= a break=2C the Poetry Brothel laid on flamenco> >>>>> guitarists=2C> >>>>>= a fortune-teller=2C a blackjack table and a bar specializing in port and> = >>>>> whisky> >>>>> > >>>>> The young hedonists=2C most of them students=2C= appear to have struck a> >>>>> surprisingly successful formula.> >>>>> > >= >>>> "There just aren't that many poetry readings where poets show a> >>>> = lot of> >>>>> cleavage=2C" said The Professor=2C otherwise known as Jennife= r Michael> >>>> Hecht=2C> >>>>> aged 43 and a real life professor at Manhat= tan's New School.> >>>>> > >>>>> She teaches writing to many of the Brothel= 's regulars and is proud of> >>>> the> >>>>> result.> >>>>> > >>>>> "It's k= ind of like the Weimar Republic without the Nazis. At two> >>>> in> >>>>> t= he morning you have 20- or 30-year-olds lying all over the place reading> >= >>>> poetry=2C" she said.> >>>>> > >>>>> "The custom is to read poetry alon= e=2C but we know that from Homer> >>>> onward=2C> >>>>> people read it alou= d and in groups."> >>>>> > >>>>> By midnight the Zipper Factory was packed = and getting fuller -- and> >>>> rowdier.> >>>>> > >>>>> The fortune teller= =2C bedecked in red scarf and blue plumes=2C mumbled to> >>>>> someone> >>>= >> about "choppy waters." The flamenco duo strummed. The Madame=2C yet> >>>= >> another glass of port in hand=2C introduced poet "whores" in a> >>>> voi= ce> >>>>> suggesting she appreciated more than their literary charms.> >>>>= > > >>>>> When Patricia Smith=2C a well-established poet=2C took the mike t= o declaim a> >>>>> long> >>>>> and rhythmical poem about love and making lo= ve=2C there were rock concert> >>>>> cheers> >>>>> from the crowd.> >>>>> >= >>>>> "I always shudder when I pray=2C" Smith intoned in a mesmerizing> >>= >> voice=2C> >>>>> "so your name must be a prayer."> >>>>> > >>>>> Even for= these bohemians there's no escaping the economic crisis> >>>> sweeping> >>= >>> the country.> >>>>> > >>>>> One of the poets=2C 22-year-old Nina Cheng= =2C was about to start a> >> job at Bear> >>>>> Stearns this year when the = bank collapsed. Now she is writing a> >> play about> >>>>> the> >>>>> exper= ience and applying for a playwright's course at Yale.> >>>>> > >>>>> "I'd t= hought I'd do banking and get into the arts when I> >>>> retired> >>>>> -- = not this early=2C" said Cheng=2C known at the Brothel as The Opium> >>>> Ea= ter.> >>>>> > >>>>> Another poetry prostitute=2C 27-year-old Rachel Herman-= Gross=2C aka Simone=2C> >>>>> worried> >>>>> that crashing stock markets wi= ll pull the rug from under the arts scene.> >>>>> "It's going to be a lot h= arder. A lot of artists are sustained by> >>>>> grants from people with mon= ey."> >>>>> > >>>>> But one enthusiastic "client" said the ingenuity of the= Poetry> >>>>> Brothel proves there are ways to survive.> >>>>> > >>>>> "Mo= ney's always been scarce for artists and they're very> >>>>> resourceful pe= ople=2C" said Edmund Voyer=2C 54=2C a hefty man described as> >>>> an> >>>>= > "evangelist" on his business card and who came to the Zipper> >>>> Factor= y> >>>>> wearing a kilt.> >>>>> > >>>>> His drinking companion=2C Jennifer = Hoa=2C 27=2C agreed money and art> >> would always> >>>>> find ways to meet= .> >>>>> > >>>>> "I've been a sell-out for years as a corporate lawyer=2C b= ut I come> >>>>> here=2C" she said. "I can't suppress my artistic side."> >= >>>> > >>>>> The Madame promised that the Poetry Brothel welcomed all.> >>>= >> > >>>>> "Many are young men with perhaps a secret interest in poems=2C" = she> >>>>> murmured. "Just look at the menu. Get a recommendation. Or say y= ou> >>>>> don't care. Say: 'I need poetry. I'm hungry.'"> >>>>> > >>>>> =3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> >>>>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not ac= cept all posts. Check> >>>> guidelines> >>>>> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.= buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html> >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> =3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> >>>>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not ac= cept all posts. Check> >>>> guidelines> >>>>> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.= buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html> >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D> >>>>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts.= Check> >>>>> guidelines & sub/unsub info:> >>>> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poe= tics/welcome.html> >>>> > >>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> >>>> The Poet= ics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check> >> guidelines> >>= >> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html> >>>> > >>= >> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> >>>> The Poetics List = is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check> >>>> guidelines & sub/unsu= b info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html> >>>> > >>> > >>> =3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not acce= pt all posts. Check> >> guidelines &> >>> sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffal= o.edu/poetics/welcome.html> >> > >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> >> The Poe= tics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check> >> guidelines & = sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html> > > > =3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept al= l posts. Check guidelines &> > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poeti= cs/welcome.html> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> The Poetics List is moder= ated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http:/= /epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html> > ------------------------------> > = Date: Sun=2C 11 Jan 2009 00:41:31 -0500> From: Murat Nemet-Nejat > Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory> > Alice Notle= y has a poem which starts with the protagonist saying she a woman> in a who= re house. I can not at this moment remember the title.> > Ciao=2C> > Murat>= > > On Sat=2C Jan 10=2C 2009 at 11:49 PM=2C Ruth Lepson wrote:> > > twisting my words!> > so writing about objections to pros= titution does nothing=2C huh--so words> > don't matter?> > I think all thos= e jobs are degrading.> > I wd like to defend yr friends by getting them bet= ter jobs.> > I am not criticizing these women.> > Better working conditions= wd be not having to succumb to male ideas of> > sexuality in our culture= =2C such narrow constraints.> >> >> >> > On 1/9/09 5:49 PM=2C "Adam Tobin" = wrote:> >> > > but you were the one crying shame= ! on the women of the Poetry Brothel!> > for> > > dressing like whores!> > = >> > > (please note that I am NOT arguing that prostitution is not a sexist= > > > institution. clearly it is. and i agree that it is part of a complex = of> > > normative heterosexuality that does terrible violence to all women.= But> > as> > > for the actual women who are living in actual slavery=2C i = think> > complaining> > > about the symbolic degrading of womankind does no= thing for them: it's> > like> > > trying to improve the safety of coal mine= s by complaining about climate> > > change.> > >> > > And if you're just us= ing those women (who are very real=2C and many of them> > > living in absol= utely horrific situations=2C as you rightly pointed out) as> > > symbols of= Degraded Womankind=2C you are doing a disservice to them and> > also> > > = to the many many women (some of whom must be subscribers to this list)> > w= ho> > > work in other parts of the sex trade -- exotic dancers=2C high-end>= > call-girls=2C> > > dominatrices=2C nude housekeepers=2C pornographic mod= els=2C hooters waitresses=2C> > > etc. -- some of these people are my frien= ds and i take it personally --> > and> > > I think that their own struggles= for better working conditions are not> > > unrelated to the struggle again= st slavery in other parts of their bosses'> > > businesses...> > >> > > -- = but i'm sorry that i overreacted and became part of a litany of men> > (all= > > > men! really! can it really be that there are no women here who work i= n> > the> > > sex trade??) who are all seemingly trying to justify the inst= itution as> > an> > > institution. I am not trying to justify it=2C just tr= ying to defend my> > > friends who work there from the harsh judgments of t= heir elders...> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > -----Original Message-----> > = > From: Poetics List (UPenn=2C UB) [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On= > > > Behalf Of Ruth Lepson> > > Sent: Thursday=2C January 08=2C 2009 10:11= PM> > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> > > Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel = at the Zipper Factory> > >> > > but I don't believe either considering it l= abor or shame on women is> > right.> > > in a free society women cd dress a= ny way they wanted not just in ways> > > dictated by the society as sexy.> = > >> > >> > > On 1/8/09 8:22 PM=2C "Adam Tobin" = wrote:> > >> > >> I did overstate the case a bit -- only because i thought = your reaction> > >> against The Poetry Brothel was itself overstated. Of co= urse sex is> > >> different from sewing.> > >>> > >> And sewing is differen= t from mining=2C and mining is different from> > >> picking cotton=2C etc. = -- all of these industries have had -- and do> > >> have -- their own slave= ry problems. And all of them have different> > >> occupational hazards and = terrible working conditions that need to be> > >> addressed=2C and will onl= y be addressed if the workers can bargain> > >> collectively because the bo= sses are interested only in profits etc. etc.> > > etc.> > >>> > >> I propo= se that a major reason that slavery persists in the sex> > >> industry is t= hat the labor movement has utterly ignored those workers=2C> > >> largely b= ecause of the knee-jerk moralizing that is our culture's rote> > >> respons= e to any mention of sex-work. (and because it apparently takes> > >> an inv= olved argument to convince even well-meaning people that sex can> > >> be c= onsidered work at> > >> all.)> > >>> > >> (I may be the old-fashioned one h= ere=2C calling for solidarity across> > >> different types of work. But tha= t old labor-movement ethic seems still> > >> useful to me -- whereas the ol= d> > "shame-on-the-women-who-dress-like-whores"> > >> ethic seems singularl= y counterproductive.)> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> -----Original Message--= ---> > >> From: Poetics List (UPenn=2C UB) [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 06:01:46 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Re: Can "nature" poetry be postmodern/post-structural? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ronald Johnson's The Shrubberies Gerald S. > Recently read Richard Louv's "Last Child In The Woods:Saving Our > Children from Nature-Deficit Disorder" (2005,2008) and he references > Wordsworth, and of course, Gary Snyder. And just this morning I found > this: > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2008/dec/27/nick-laird-poetry-nature > > Can anyone suggest poets, critiques, etc. re: non-traditional nature > poetry? > > Mary Jo Malo > > -- > http://thisshiningwound.blogspot.com/ > http://apophisdeconstructingabsurdity.blogspot.com/ > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 10:42:53 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Sarah Sarai Subject: Hubert Huncke tribute, after the fact, Patti Smith, David Lawton, Tatum Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain Last Friday there was a Hubert Huncke tribute for his 94th birthday (if h= e were around to=20 celebrate) at Bowery Electric in N.Y.C. Readers (of his work) *included*= Thurston Moore=20 from Sonic Youth (tall, rumpled, cool), Abel Ferrara (smart, not the best= reader, but who=20 cares -- a privilege to see him), Tatum O=92Neill (funny and utterly beau= tiful but needs to=20 go to more open mics and learn to shout over instead of at the people at = the bar). And=20 Patti Smith. She stuck her gum=20 on the music stand. She owned the stage. She owned the house. She brou= ght the house=20 down,=20 as did David Lawton (open mic poet; actor), co-organizer of the event. He= was friends w/=20 Huncke and performed what I hope is the beginning of a one-man show. I k= now this is all after the fact and I almost didn=92t go. Lawton shamed me into going so = I=92m doing some=20 thanking, here. I don=92t want the evening to almost pass away without n= otice and I don=92t=20 want Lawton to almost not consider=20 doing more. Sarah Sarai www.myspace.com/sarahsarai =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 12:28:19 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: CA Conrad Subject: coMpetition does MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Recently I've met a couple of young poets (yet again) who dropped out of poetry writing workshops because they were, in the words of one of these poets, "eaten alive." The conversation isn't new. And it's not a conversation about workshops in particular, but competition in a bigger sense. When is competition good, meaning productive, meaning THE THING which spurs poets into action in the best sense, in the sense of WANTING to write as well as they can. And when is competition ugly, filled with envy and jealousy, reaching a surprising number of times in my observations to the most corrupt, wicked, disturbing places people can get to. The conversation is tricky because I'm always trying to ask, investigate with others, WHERE IS THE line between competition when it's healthy, and rotten? There's no doubt in my mind that these two young poets (the latest two that is, as I've been having this conversation for years now and I don't even remember how many times I've had it frankly) love, really LOVE poetry. We share that, we find when talking that we share that DRIVE, depositing ourselves in front of bookstore poetry sections, and libraries, and asking everyone we know who their favorite poets are, and titles, and never getting enough of this love. Never getting enough of it. And not just feeling sad when a bookstore like GOTHAM BOOKMART closes down but ANGRY! We're so much alike, and we tell one another what we're most excited about NOW, and everyone's scratching notes for the library and bookstore. How we're NOT alike is that these two young poets are VERY vulnerable to attack. When they were said to be "eaten alive" I'm not surprised. And I'm sad, and wish they were MORE LIKE ME and laugh at the bastards and say, "OH YOU'RE JUST A HATER, YOU JEALOUS PIG!" Or, "Yeah well, THANKS, being attacked GETS ME UP IN THE MORNING TO MAKE YOU ANGRY!" It feeds me when someone attacks me, I LOVE it. But of course a lot of people don't respond well when they're attacked, and this makes me sad. I've known poets WHOSE POEMS MADE ME HAPPY who stopped writing poems because of such attacks. In some cases the attacks were from their professors, and the other students, egged-on by the professors. A FEEDING FRENZY in such a way that makes me want to puke for poetry. It disgusts me this kind of behavior. I'm not a professor, but I have conducted poetry workshops, and it's NOT HARD AT ALL in my opinion to keep the focus about everyone (including myself because I want to learn from THEM TOO!) investigating poetry together! My focus is about PROCESS, about the many weird ways to MAKE poetry happen, NOT ABOUT who is writing poems I think are good, or another person in the workshop thinks are good, or not. This is NOT goody-two-shoe bullshit, I'm JUST NOT INTERESTED in telling someone whether I like their poems or not when I'm conducting workshops. And it's none of my business frankly. But to LOVE poetry, and read it, and create it, and have it in our lives, now THAT is something I get very excited about! But what is that line? When is it crossed from productive and beautiful and everyone's excited and MAKING poetry, to that place of shit? I'd rather see poems ABOUT that dark spot on the poetry map, than see it overwhelm another poet. And I mean overwhelm the poet who NEEDS to be vicious, and of course I mean the poet who gets beaten down. This conversation cannot happen unless we talk about the bigger things around it, like, WHY IS EVERYONE NOT UNDERSTANDING EVERYONE IS CREATIVE WE ARE ALL CREATIVE THIS IS NOT UP FOR DEBATE. Or is it? I've had people tell me this is wrong, that everyone's NOT creative. But I disagree. And the conversation needs to be about how the way poets act about scarcity and fear that there's not enough NOT ENOUGH magazines NOT ENOUGH awards or enough room at the reading series, not enough, is really, such an old story about us being animals. And the conversation needs to be about how to protect ourselves if we can't withstand the attacks. And the conversation needs to be about how people don't need to attack others because THERE IS ENOUGH. And the conversation needs to be about how art and all our creative abilities have become part of a big system in the capital of art and poetry, and books, and writing programs and teaching and, and, and CONSUMPTION, and frankly how, more than ever there's more reasons than ever for us to feel like we're NOT working hard enough, NOT being good enough, NOT good enough, so many reasons to feel like shit. It's a big conversation. But I feel I'm always having it. And it's one of the most important ones to have some days, especially when I meet young poets who have just been destroyed in workshops, made to feel worthless. The one poet started crying, and said, literally between sobs, "ALL I WANT TO DO IS WRITE POETRY!" It's really awful, I just want to hit whoever did this to this person, but of course that's not helpful. The line crossed is hard to see because it's different for everyone, I think. Right? Sometimes I'm not sure I'm right about that, but it feels right, doesn't just feel like an answer I've come up with to forget thinking about it, because I really want to figure it out, if it can be figured out. There's too much at stake, at least it feels that way when I meet YET ANOTHER amazing young poet who becomes afraid of workshops and other poets and stops writing. I've met so many amazing poets who stop, for so many reasons they stop. The most common reason though is that they get worn out from the struggle of dealing with many hungry egos. And their own hungry ego. It goes back to the discussion about why we're writing, and what has writing become in this world for us? CAConrad -- PhillySound: new poetry http://PhillySound.blogspot.com THE BOOK OF FRANK by CAConrad http://CAConrad.blogspot.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 12:02:52 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Eric Elshtain Subject: New Beard of Bees Chapbook MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit File under: I bet I thought of that once but I never would have done it half as well... http://www.beardofbees.com/agrani.html Best, Eric Elshtain Editor Beard of Bees Press http://www.beardofbees.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 11:28:30 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Troy Camplin Subject: Re: On Health, Holiness, Beauty and Poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Some excellent points here. Much to chew on. The first things that come to = mind are the following:=0A=0AFirst: holy encompasses more than does sacred.= A person can be holy, but is a person sacred? Places can be either holy or= sacred. This is a distinction (another person suggested "spiritual" -- whi= ch is another word that I should address in this same context) I should add= ress. My project here was to make people think about the way the word is us= ed, so it is contra Wittgenstein in the spirit of Wittgenstein, so to speak= .. =0A=0ASecond: I am arguing that, essentially, holiness and holism are the= same, but that the holiness/holism I am arguing for is not exclusive or wh= ere one ideology dominates another. I agree with you that the pomo argument= against grand narratives is itself holistic, despite their best efforts (a= s I pointed out once to a postmodernist, who didn't have an answer for my c= laim). However, they do attempt to dispose of the whole/holiness, and I thi= nk that is as dangerous as those who think holiness is cancer.=0A=0AThird: = good, bad, and evil can be understood as: knowledge of the good, and doing = it; ignorance of the good; knowledge of the good, and working against it. I= think, then, that to be good, you have to have knowledge, including knowle= dge of the whole -- and have the wisdom to do it. Wisdom and knowledge comb= ined constitute beauty, and the beautiful is holy. These are a few things I= need to make explicit and develop more. =0A=0ALike I said, these are just = a few quick thoughts. Your observations are spot-on, and will help me to de= velop these ideas much more. Thank you.=0A=0ATroy Camplin=0A=0A=0A=0A______= __________________________=0AFrom: Jason Quackenbush =0ATo: P= OETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=0ASent: Monday, January 12, 2009 4:25:13 PM=0AS= ubject: Re: On Health, Holiness, Beauty and Poetry=0A=0ATroy,=0AI often dis= agree with you, but I can see a good deal of merit in your project here to = reclaim the word holy.=0A=0AThe analytic philosopher in me (eminently moder= nist, don't you know) wants a bit more rigor here though.=0A=0Ato that end = i would consider the following pairings with the word holy and holiness whi= ch I think maybe create some problems for what you're saying and that I thi= nk need answering. Don't misunderstand me, I think that there can be answer= s, I'm just curious about how the lines are drawn poetically and philosophi= cally here.=0A=0Afirst: holy vs. sacred=0A=0Amy own first among equals in t= he philosophical pantheon ludwig wittgenstein has counseled that in most ca= ses the meaning of a word is it's use in a loanguage. To that end, we often= use the word holy in the same circumstance that we might also use the word= sacred. There is an overlap there just as there exists overlap between the= unholy and the profane. But the terms are not coextensive and therefore no= t exact synonyms. I wonder what might be holy but not sacred and in where t= he distinction lies.=0A=0Asecond: holiness vs holism=0Athere seems to be so= me blurring going on between the two words that I'm not sure i understand. = are you saying that holism is by definition holy? how then do you account f= or competing views of holines? you touched on this a bit in what's below an= d yr comments on metanarrative, but I'd like to see a more explicit develop= ment of that thought, specifically given that the postmodern condition of s= kepticism toward metanarratives (holiness in your view) is itself holistic.= =0A=0Athird: the holy vs the good=0A=0Ais all that is holy good? is all tha= t is good holy? if so, why the different words and wahat do we make of the = different qualities associated with each? holiness hasa connotation of unap= proachability and beyond the merely human, whereas goodness is something th= at we can always seem ot find and appreciate. it is much like the aesthetic= in this way.=0A=0A=0AOn Jan 9, 2009, at 9:24 AM, Troy Camplin wrote:=0A=0A= > In English the words holy, whole, hale, and health are etymologically con= nected =96 Old English halig, hal, and h=E6lth, respectively, which are all= related to hal. Thus are they conceptually connected. To see the world as = holy is to see the world as whole =96 it is to have the world =93appear inf= inite and holy, whereas it now appears finite and corrupt=94 (William Blake= , =93The Marriage of Heaven and Hell=94). The word holistic comes from the = Greek holos, whole. Thus the holy is holistic =96 God is holy because He en= compasses all. Perhaps one could even say that we can recognize the divine = only when we come to see the world as a whole, when we see the universe as = universal. When we can come=0A> =0A> To see a World in a grain of sand,=0A>= And a Heaven in a wild flower,=0A> Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand,= =0A> And Eternity in an hour. (William Blake, =93Auguries of Innocence=94)= =0A> =0A> Health and hale is the same. To have health is to have wholeness.= To be hale is to be healthy =96 whole and complete. To make healthy is to = make whole again. One is healed through medication. But ideally, one would = rather maintain one=92s health than have to withstand the ravages of medica= tion (pharmaceutical comes from the Greek pharmakon, which means both poiso= n and medicine =96 as it does today), though medication is necessary to sta= ve off disease. This is the purpose of Plato=92s Pharmakon, to stave off di= sease. For disease is the opposite of health.=0A> =0A> The Modern Era, whic= h we are still in, though we may be at the end of it, began when Descartes = split man in two =96 body and soul. It was a necessary division for the dev= elopment of modern science (which Descartes all but admits to =96 the divis= ion is so the Church will tend to the soul, while the body is left alone, t= o be tended to by scientists such as Descartes), but it was certainly an un= holy division (as all divisions are, by definition). Kant deepened this div= ision. Hegel tried to mend it through philosophical synthesis. Marx tried t= o mend it by recommending the overthrow of half of the world =96 the world = would then be wholly Proletarian. Nietzsche responded to Hegel by dividing = the world up even more =96 for him, humans are not divided into body and so= ul, but are instead a series of masks. With postmodernism, the division is = complete: men and women, multiculturalism, radical Cartesian individualism = divide us up more and more. Any universality is=0A> denied. A necessary de= velopment =96 and not without its truth (I am aware of the irony of using t= he word truth, which comes from the Old English treowth, related to the wor= d troth, from which we get the word betrothed, to speak of an idea that is = more interested in divorce than betrothal). But it is precisely as unholy a= s one can get.=0A> =0A> The deep divisions fostered by postmodernism came a= bout because of a view that grand narratives, attempts to universalize, and= seeing the world as holistic created the problems of the 20th Century. The= Marxist grand narrative gave us the gulag of the Soviet Union, the massacr= es of the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia, and any number of other slaughters done = by governments who had embraced Marxist philosophy. We looked back on histo= ry after the Holocaust, saw the grand narrative of Christianity had in the = past itself promoted the killing of Jews =96 particularly in the Inquisitio= n =96 and concluded that it too was dangerous. One could also mention The T= error of the French Revolution. What did Marxism, Medieval Christianity, an= d the French Revolution have in common? One thing was that they were all gr= and narratives. Thus, the logic goes, it must be grand narratives which are= bad. And what do grand narratives do? They see the world as a whole, which= must be=0A> encompassed by their ideology. To make the world a whole, it = must be placed under their one ideology. Thus, holistic world views were se= en as bad =96 thus were they, and holiness, rejected. The path to Heaven = =96 whether that heaven was celestial or earthly =96 seemed to lead us stra= ight into Hell. Perhaps in part the rejection of holding a holistic view ca= me about because it is related to the holy, and the holy has been rejected.= To the extent that wisdom is the ability to see the unity of the world =96= meaning wisdom is the ability to see the world as holy =96 wisdom was also= rejected as impossible, perhaps even undesirable.=0A> =0A> The error in th= is way of thinking derives from the error made in seeing Communism, Christi= anity, or the ideals of the French Revolution as interested in seeing the w= orld as holistic. None of them saw the world as holistic, as holy =96 they = instead wanted to make the world whole, under their particular umbrellas. T= hey too fostered divisions =96 there were enemies who had to be either conv= erted or killed in order that the world could be made holy. =93For the cher= ub with his flaming sword is hereby commanded to leave his guard at tree of= life; and when he does, the whole creation will be consumed and appear inf= inite and holy=94 (Blake =93The Marriage of Heaven and Hell=94). Now Blake = here uses the word =93appear.=94 None of them saw the world as holy. It had= to be made so =96 through conflagration, if necessary. Postmodern thought,= by dividing the world even more, does not help us to see the world as holy= =96 quite the contrary. However, by insisting on=0A> equality among the v= arious parts =96 among individuals, among cultures, among religions, among = any number of groups of individuals =96 postmodern thought may ironically m= ake it now possible to see the world as being, rather than needing to becom= e, holy.=0A> =0A> It may seem ironic to suggest that only by reaching the m= ost severe of divisions =96 seeing the world as eminently unholy =96 that w= e can finally come to see that the world is in fact holy, but I am not bein= g ironic. To see the world as holy is not to see everything in the world as= equal in an egalitarian sense. There are hierarchies. To see the world as = holy is to understand how everything fits into the world as a whole. It is = to see the world as an immense organism, and to care for its health. An org= anism is made up of systems, organs, tissues, cells, organelles, and variou= s biochemicals. For one group to want to envelop the entire world in one wa= y of thinking, believing, viewing the world, would be the same as one cell = wanting to envelop the entire organism in that one type of cell. We have a = word for cells that want to do that: cancer. The postmodernists have mistak= en viewing the actions of cancerous cells for seeing the whole organism. Ca= ncer must=0A> be fought, not mistaken for the animal it is in. That is the= only way one can have a healthy organism =96 and it is the only way to hav= e a holy world.. Like a healthy organism, a holy world is complex. Like a h= ealthy organism, a holy world has smoothly working parts in communication w= ith each other through clear rules that proscribe what each part needs to d= o for the whole to work well. Like a healthy organism, this cannot come fro= m any centralized authority =96 there is no one control cell in the body, a= nd the brain must have the lungs just as much as the lungs must have the br= ain. A holy world is like a healthy organism.=0A> =0A> In Negative Theology= , one comes to know what God is by figuring out what God is not. Aristotle = says that if you are not sure if something is good, try to figure out what = is bad, and you can then deduce that what is good is its opposite.=0A> The = following are unhealthy:=0A> =0A> 1. Overeating, including eating a high pe= rcentage of foods with low nutritional value, while remaining inactive (not= exercising)=0A> 2. Either stagnation or change without continuity =96 both= create instability=0A> 3. Stress and anxiety =96 which comes about from no= t realizing that there are parts of the world that one cannot control, and = can lead to anger at those very things=0A> 4. Hatred =96 aside from raising= the blood pressure, it can cause one to act in ways that would be unhealth= y for the object of our hatred=0A> 5. Cancer =96 already discussed=0A> 6. E= xcess =96 including the excess of moderation=0A> 7. Shackles =96 prevents s= ufficient movement, equating to lack of exercise=0A> 8. Pollution =96 it ca= n lead to any number of diseases=0A> 9. An overly-clean environment =96 it = can prevent our immune systems from developing properly, making us more sus= ceptible to diseases, especially autoimmune diseases=0A> 10. Suicide =96 in= herently and obviously unhealthy=0A> 11. Isolation =96 loneliness can lead = to depression, which depresses the immune system=0A> 12. Ignorance =96 eith= er of the world or of oneself, as one cannot maintain one=92s health if one= is ignorant of what can harm it or improve it=0A> =0A> This leads one to p= osit the following are healthy:=0A> =0A> 1. Exercise, with a diet proper to= the amount of exercise and of high nutritional value=0A> 2. Change with co= ntinuity=0A> 3. Realizing that there are parts of the world that one cannot= control, thus reducing stress and anxiety=0A> 4. Love=0A> 5. Keeping the b= ody in hierarchical harmony=0A> 6. Moderation in everything, including mode= ration =96 remembering that moderation is an extreme in the same way that l= ife is an extreme state of organic chemistry=0A> 7. Freedom =96 remembering= that freedom does not equate to a lack of rules, but is rather what is ach= ieved through playing by the best rules=0A> 8. Cleanliness (which, as the s= aying goes, is next to Godliness, meaning it is holy)=0A> 9. A non-sanitize= d world =96 a world without dirt is a world that makes unhealthy organisms= =0A> 10. Love of one=92s own life=0A> 11. Friends=0A> 12. Knowledge =96 inc= luding self-knowledge=0A> =0A> One can make a similar list of what makes fo= r a healthy mind:=0A> 1. Taking in healthy information =96 good art, music,= literature, philosophy, the sciences, etc. =96 with sufficient exercise of= the mind through thought, discussion, and writing=0A> 2. Change with conti= nuity=0A> 3.. Realizing that there are parts of the world that one cannot c= ontrol, thus reducing stress and anxiety, which can negatively affect the m= ind as well as the body=0A> 4. Love=0A> 5. Having a variety of inputs =96 o= bsession with one thing alone is a kind of mental cancer=0A> 6. Moderation = in everything, including moderation =96 moderation of reading, of rigorous = thought, sexual thoughts, work, play, physical activity, etc.=0A> 7. Freedo= m of thought =96 we must not think in shackles, but with flexible rules=0A>= 8. Cleanliness of thought =96 this does not necessarily mean what it has t= raditionally meant in the West, though it can certainly contain some elemen= ts; thinking about sex is in and of itself not unclean=0A> 9. Realization t= hat we do not and cannot live in a sanitized world, as that stops thought a= nd creativity=0A> 10. Love of thinking=0A> 11. Friends =96 as Aristotle say= s in Rhetoric, =93a wide circle of friends, a virtuous circle of friends,= =94 and, I would add, a mentally stimulating circle of friends=0A> 12. Know= ledge =96 including self knowledge =96 with the goal of wisdom=0A> =0A> A h= oly world is one that parallels the healthy body and the healthy mind, and = will have the above qualities, including moderation in everything, includin= g moderation (i.e., it will be a just world), freedom (this is freedom from= , not freedom to), love, friendship, and beauty. A holy world is a beautifu= l world, both having variety in unity, unity in variety, complexity, and fl= uid hierarchy that is self-similar regardless of scale. All of the parts, l= iving in love and friendship (which does not exclude healthy competition, s= uch as we find in sports and in free trade), living in a complex dynamic wi= th each other, living as individuals in various communities, many of which = overlap and are nested within other communities, must be self-similar to ha= ve a holy world.=0A> =0A> In Greek, to kalon means the beautiful, but it ca= n also mean the honorable or the noble =96 and kala can mean either things = that are beautiful or things that are morally good. In the Rhetoric, Aristo= tle says that =93Now kalon describes whatever, through being chosen for its= elf, is praiseworthy or whatever, through being good [agathon], is pleasant= because it is good [agathon]. If this, then, is the kalon, then virtue is = necessarily kalon; for it is praiseworthy because of being good [agathon]= =94 (79). Elaine Scarry points out that in English too, there is a connecti= on between beauty and the good (the just), when she points out that to say = that something is fair is to say that it is either beautiful or that it is = just. In Greek and in English, the beautiful and the good are connected. If= a holy world is a beautiful world, it is a good and just world as well. As= Heraclitus said, =93For god all things are fair and just, but men have tak= en some things as=0A> unjust, others as just=94 (LXVIII). The key here is = that we see the world itself as just =96 not the actions of each and every = individual. The world is itself justified and cannot itself be unjust. This= is consistent with the teachings of any religion that sees the world as ha= ving been created by God or the gods =96 how could a fair and just god crea= te a world that was itself unjust? And if theistic religions are rejected, = how can the world itself possibly be unjust? To say it is unjust is to give= it anthropomorphic qualities. It is people who have taken some things as b= eing just, others as unjust =96 but the world itself is self-justified. Tho= se who do not see the world as just are those who do not see the world as h= oly =96 often they are the same people who think the only way the world can= be justified is if the world is made holy through the transformation of it= into a perfect mirror of themselves. But we have seen that a world made up= of only one=0A> world view is a cancerous world =96 and the world, as a c= ancerous organism, will die. An organism cannot consist of one type of cell= =96 that is the unhealthiest of organisms. And a world having only one wor= ld view is the unhealthiest of worlds. In the same way that a healthy body = consists of a variety of cells that are variations of the same theme coded = by identical DNA, a healthy world consists of a variety of peoples that are= variations of the same themes coded for by our being human and sharing the= same cultural universals.=0A> =0A> Beauty is also related to health =96 as= we can see in the beauty we find in nature. Healthy plants produce the mos= t beautiful flowers. Healthy peacocks produce the largest, most symmetrical= , most colorful feathers. Healthy gobies and other territorial reef fish ha= ve the brightest colors. All of this natural beauty is the advertisement of= health to the opposite sex. The healthiest human bodies (neither overweigh= t nor super model thin) are the most beautiful. Thus is there also a relati= onship between health, beauty, and sex. If beauty can thus be equated to he= alth, we can see that beauty is again equated to the holy. And we can see t= oo that sex in-and-of-itself is and cannot be unholy, as it is connected (b= ut not equivalent) to beauty.=0A> =0A> A holy world is a whole world. It is= a healthy world. It is a good and just world. It is a complex world. It is= a world of individuals in community. It is a beautiful world. But is it a = possible world? I have already given the answer: the world is itself alread= y holy. We just have to learn to see it as holy. That is how we will heal t= he world. And, as we do, we will become less and less likely to want or try= to eliminate those who disagree with us =96 until we are all in agreement = on this one issue, as all the cells in an organism are in agreement on the = one issue that they must work together for the health of the whole, even as= each performs its own function. Thus, the world will become more and more = holy in our eyes. In works of tragedy, nomos (convention, human law, naming= ; from which we get the words nomad and nomenclature, and which is the chan= ging and changeable aspect of the world) comes into conflict with physis (o= r nature; from which we get the=0A> word physics). That is the position we= are now in. When we get nomos to map onto physis (Heraclitus calls this co= njunction logos =96 which can be translated as saying, speech, discourse, w= ord, account, explanation, reason, principle, collection, enumeration, rati= o, proportion), we will see the world as it truly is: holy.=0A> =0A> On the= Holy=0A> =0A> Where lies the holy in the modern world?=0A> It lies in Blak= e=92s world in a grain of sand =96=0A> It lies, and lies like the truth, in= patterns=0A> Like self-organized rings of rocks barren=0A> Arctic fields c= reate. It lies in the branch=0A> Of every tree and species, leafing out=0A>= From the known into the unknown. It lies=0A> In every song, painting and r= hythmic verse.=0A> We have looked at every leaf and petal,=0A> At the bark = and at the wood, every cell=0A> And strand of DNA is now known =96=0A> And = we have forgotten that all of this=0A> Was once a tree that gave us shade a= nd filled=0A> The air with delicate sweetness and held=0A> The grains of sa= nd against its roots to hold=0A> The ground in place, even as that ground m= oves=0A> And changes in tiny ways we refuse=0A> To see. In this we can see = the holy.=0A> This is where it lies, now and forever,=0A> On the edge of or= der and wild chaos,=0A> Where the infinite holds in the finite,=0A> Where w= e, ourselves holy, have always lived.=0A> =0A> Troy Camplin=0A> =0A> =3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept a= ll posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics= /welcome.html=0A=0AJason Quackenbush=0Ajfq@myuw.net=0A=0A=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=0AThe Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Chec= k guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html= =0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 11:37:10 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jennifer Karmin Subject: WEEK TWO: When Does It or You Begin? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii WHEN DOES IT OR YOU BEGIN? (MEMORY AS INNOVATION) Festival of Writing, Performance, & Video Curated by Amina Cain & Jennifer Karmin at Links Hall 3435 N. Sheffield Avenue Chicago, IL WEEK TWO Collective Memory: Collaboration is Group Work featuring collaborative projects, translation, visual art & community organizing FRIDAY, JANUARY 16 at 8pm Patrick Durgin with Jen Hofer John Keene with Christopher Stackhouse Laurie Jo Reynolds with collaborators [Amy Partridge, Stephen F. Eisenman, Tamms Year Ten] video by Temporary Services talkback with Terri Kapsalis SATURDAY, JANUARY 17 at 8pm Tradeshow Jen Hofer with Dolores Dorantes John Keene with Christopher Stackhouse Jennifer Karmin with collaborators [Mars Caulton, Joel Craig, Lisa Fishman, Krista Franklin, Chris Glomski, Daniel Godston, Lily Robert-Foley] SUNDAY, JANUARY 18 at 7pm Tradeshow Jen Hofer with Dolores Dorantes Jennifer Karmin with collaborators [Kathleen Duffy, Brandi Homan, A D Jameson, Lisa Janssen, Erika Mikkalo, Ira S. Murfin, Timothy Rey] video by Laurie Jo Reynolds TICKETS $12 $10 students, seniors, & working artists/writers FULL SCHEDULE ONLINE http://www.linkshall.org/09-pp-jan.shtml PERFORMANCE WORKSHOP January 17 from 10am-4pm with Karen Christopher and Bryan Saner, Goat Island Performance Group members $70 INAUGURATION DAY PARTY January 20 from 6-7:30pm Anti Gravity Surprise book launch & panel discussion at the Chicago Cultural Center, 78 E. Washington *free* OPEN HOUSE COMMUNITY EVENT January 22 from 7-9pm hosted by poet Judith Goldman at her home in Andersonville $10, reservations & advance ticket purchase required LINKS HALL BLOG http://linkshallinsidethestudio.blogspot.com CHICAGO TRIBUNE REVIEW http://www.chicagotribune.com/features/lifestyle/chi-memory-dance-ovn-0112jan12,0,4178434.story ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 14:04:34 -0800 Reply-To: amyhappens@yahoo.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: amy king Subject: AWP Chicago Events? Comments: To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've rec'd a few inquiries regarding off-site events taking place during AW= P in Chicago. If you have organized any, or are participating in them, can you please pos= t them?=A0 I'll pass them along to the folks who asked but are not on this = list.=A0 Others on list may want to know as well.=A0=20 Thanks, Amy p.s.=A0 For that matter, if you'd also like to sell us on your panel or eve= nt, such convincing might be in order too... _______ Recent work http://www.writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/King.html Amy's Alias http://amyking.org/=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 17:05:51 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: [SPAM]Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed To extrapolate: Since as it becomes easier to get laid for free the stuff a prostitute has to do to make a living gets weirder everybody should keep their legs crossed. Did I get it right? I'm ok with folks doing what they want to make a living, even if they only do it because they feel bad about themselves, and people buying their services, even if they only do it because they feel bad about themselves. Unless we legislate mental health (and assume that the motivations are always unhealthy) it's the best we're likely to do. Coercion of any kind is another matter. Legalization makes it a lot easier to fight coercion (and incidentally to minimize the spread of disease). I'd say the same for drug use, even though most people probably shouldn't put a spike in their arm. Mark At 12:39 AM 1/13/2009, you wrote: > >I've been following the discussion only sporadically, so please >forgive any redundancy, but, the well-known "Effects of Prolonged >Consumption of Pornography" and other studies suggest that in places >where pornography is legal and increasingly popular there is a >corresponding decrease in the incidence of violent sexual >crimes. As if the medium could allow for the safe channeling of >certain repressed and thereby sinister desires. However, many >observers attribute said decreased incidence to a greater leniency >in attitudes towards sexual behavior and an inability, or >unwillingness, to interpret sex crimes as such. In this regard, >where pornography is widely consumed, we might note the evolution of >more exotic and aggressive forms of it (think anus, gangbang, shit >in the mouth). > >Though pornography and prostitution aren't the same thing, perhaps >the same principle holds true. The more the thing is permitted, the >more boring it gets, and so, the more deviant and illicit and >forbidden its form must take. Or in other terms, hunger (out of >boredom) ensures the creation (and delivery) of new products. The >more we're ok with prostitution, the more we're ok with whatever >treatment the prostitute receives, and the more novel treatments >we'll surely find. Let the free market rule. After all they're >just a muscle. > >Jared Schickling > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 17:11:06 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Evan Munday Subject: Re: AWP Chicago Off-site Event In-Reply-To: <946847.8872.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v926) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In response to Amy King's request: CHICAGO LAUNCH FOR SINA QUEYRAS'S EXPRESSWAY February 11- 14, the Association of Writers & Writing Programs comes =20 to Chicago. The AWP Conference will bring some of North America's (and =20= the world's) finest writers to the city. During the festivities, Links Hall is hosting several literary events, =20= among them, the launch of Sina Queyras's new poetry collection, =20 Expressway. Expressway, inspired by the modes of the Romantic poets, =20 explores the subject of modern transportation. Sina Queyras, winner of a Lambda Award (for Lemon Hound), former =20 organizer of the belladonna* series, and noted poetry blogger =20 (lemonhound.blogspot.com), launches Expressway on Thursday, February =20 12, with the help of some friends. Reading with Queyras will be =20 Vanessa Place (Dies: A Sentence), Adam Sol (Jeremiah, Ohio) and Kevin =20= Connolly (Revolver). We hope you'll join us. Please see below for event details and more =20 information about Expressway and all the authors. Chicago Launch of Sina Queyras's Expressway with readings by Sina Queyras, Vanessa Place, Adam Sol and Kevin =20 Connolly Thursday, February 12 8:30 - 9:30 p.m. Links Hall, 3435 N. Sheffield Avenue Chicago, IL $5 admission http://www.linkshall.org/a-locate.shtml About Expressway: Echoing the pastoral and elegiac modes of the Romantic poets, whose =20 reverence for nature never prevented them from addressing it with all =20= ideas and sensibilities their times allowed, Sina Queyras=92s stunning =20= new collection explores the infrastructures and means of modern =20 mobility. Addressing the human project not so much as something =20 imposed on nature but as an increasingly disturbing activity within =20 it, Expressway exposes the paradox of modern movement and connection: =20= we build more and more roads and highways (concrete and fibre optic), =20= but rather than feeling more connected =96 to the natural, to each other = =20 =96 the more disenfranchised and anxious we seem to become. 'Cleanse the = =20 doors of perception,' Blake urged, and with that in mind, Queyras has =20= written a bravely lyrical critique of our ethical and ecological =20 imprint, a legacy easily blamed on corporations and commerce, but one =20= we=92ve allowed, through our tacit acquiescence, to overwhelm us. Every =20= brush stroke, every bolt, and nut, every form and curve in our =20 networks of oil and rubber, every thought and its material outcome =96 =20= each decision can make or unmake us. SINA QUEYRAS is the author of Lemon Hound, which won the Pat Lowther =20 Award and a Lambda Award, as well as the poetry collections Slip and =20 Teethmarks. She edited the anthology Open Field: 30 Contemporary =20 Canadian Poets. She has taught creative writing at Rutgers and =20 Haverford. A former curator of New York City=92s belladonna* reading =20 series, Queyras currently lives in Montreal. VANESSA PLACE is the author of Dies: A Sentence (Les Figues Press), =20 and a chapbook, Figure from The Gates of Paradise (Woodland Editions). =20= Other work has appeared in Northwest Review, Contemporary Literary =20 Criticism, and Five Fingers Review. ADAM SOL is the author of two collections of poetry, Jonah's Promise, =20= which won Mid-List Press's First Series Award for Poetry, and Crowd of =20= Sounds, which won the Trillium Award for Poetry. He is also the author =20= of numerous essays and reviews, and teaches English at the Laurentian =20= University at Georgian College Program. KEVIN CONNOLLY is the author of Revolver (Anansi, 2008). Connolly's =20 first collection of poems, Asphalt Cigar (Coach House, 1995), was =20 nominated for the 1996 Gerald Lampert Award. His second collection, =20 Happyland (ECW), was published to wide acclaim in 2002; and his most =20 recent collection, drift (Anansi, 2005), won the Trillium Book Award =20 for Poetry. He lives with his partner, Gil Adamson, in Toronto, and =20 works as poetry editor for Coach House Books. Yours, Evan ------------------------------ Evan Munday Publicist Coach House Books 401 Huron St. (rear) on bpNichol Lane Toronto ON, M5S 2G5 416.979.2217 evan@chbooks.com= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 22:19:09 -0000 Reply-To: Robin Hamilton Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Re: coMpetition does In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Workshop system is damned from the start, regardless of what level you institute it. It's Royal Academy Technique. *Teach the dumbbunnies. The UK (once) Group system was more closely modeled on the attelier method (it all goes back to the plastic arts, doesn't it?) and is more difficult to institutionlise, though it can be run easily inside even an academic context ... The revolution will come when the last Workshop Moderator is hung from a sonnet by the guts of the final ... whatever. Guy Debord (Mind you, there'll be blood on the walls regardless of the strategy you adopt.) ----- Original Message ----- From: "CA Conrad" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 5:28 PM Subject: coMpetition does > Recently I've met a couple of young poets (yet again) who dropped out > of poetry writing workshops because they were, in the words of one of > these poets, "eaten alive." > > The conversation isn't new. And it's not a conversation about > workshops in particular, but competition in a bigger sense. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 22:28:49 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: AWAREing Press Subject: Re: Eyeless in Gaza Comments: cc: steph484@pacbell.net In-Reply-To: <464546.66679.qm@web82601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable True, true. My point is that classic literature and verse should be held as= sacrosanct. Journalism and these types of trivial newsposts are throw-away= -- it seems that everywhere there is this new casual take on what's previou= sly been considered sacred, and insistence upon dumb word play and misusing= or not attributing phrases just to make a headline. This is what's aggrava= ting to me. Anyway, thanks for the email. (And actually, it's probably not = your subject line to begin with...)=20=20 A favorite Huxley quote: Journalism is a good field to get into, and then g= et out of. James Beach, editor AWAREing Press -------------- Original message from Stephen Vincent = : --------------=20 Huxley actually took the phrase from Milton's SAMSON AGONISTES. Google the phrase and it will take you to the line/verse.=20 Stephen Vincent --- On Mon, 1/12/09, AWAREing Press wrote: From: AWAREing Press Subject: Re: Eyeless in Gaza To: steph484@pacbell.net Date: Monday, January 12, 2009, 3:05 PM Stephen, this is in regards to your Subject Line title-- "Eyeless in Gaza".= Yes, it's a clever quip. Yet where do you credit Aldous Huxley, or make me= ntion of his amazing book of the same title? Huxley surely was not politica= l in the traditional sense, and would probably be displeased with any bit o= f his creative genius being used to label a rant/opinion on current events,= such as yours. Turning over in his grave...?=20=20 Back to the (mis)appropriation issue, it seems. Everywhere lazy editors and= writers are reusing/misusing scholarly or popular phrases and titles with = no regard for where these strings of words originated. It's pandemic in the= new century. Is this madness, a part of the trade, a happenstance? What ar= e we, as poets and poet-advocates, to do? Any thoughts on this topic are ap= preciated. James Beach, editor AWAREing Press =20=20=20=20 -------------- Original message from Stephen Vincent = : --------------=20 It is no longer 'Eyeless in Gaza" - Israel's attempts to keep the media out= of Gaza notwithstanding, on the outside we have more than an absolutely aw= ful 'Eyeful' now. Even from the standpoint of traditional Ghetto (Occupatio= n) management standards, the carnage of Palestinians, plus buildings, infr= astructure and homes is an absolute outrage and failure. In terms of Americ= an racial history, Gaza in many ways so much echos Kansas City, Watts, Detr= oit and any number of other ghetto uprisings that have been mercilessly=20 > caused and the repressions of which have been mercilessly executed.=20=20 > As Hitler & Company envisioned Jews as a permanent threat to some concept= of German purity, progress, etc., what does the Israeli leadership, such a= s it is,=20 > seek to eliminate in Gaza!=20=20=20 > Going back to the '60's in California I can remember racist Governor Ron= ald Regan & company hearing and magnifying the 'threat' of separatist and = armed Black militants. Instead of figuring out ways to negotiate and deal = with the=20 > real issues inside ghetto communities, they responded in the same heavy = handed=20 > paranoid manner that Israel's right wing is responding to Hamas - that i= s by=20 > demonizing and (now obviously) seeking their liquidation on all levels -= =20 > institutional, cultural, etc. etc. As if this kind of punishment has eve= r been=20 > successful - short run, maybe yes, but long term most always a form of na= tional=20 > self-poisoning. (i.e., witness the wonderful, self-destructing condition = of the=20 > USA today! )=20 >=20 > & all with the final 'last days' support of support of George Bush and Di= ck=20 > Cheney - and all 'in our name'. Again.=20 >=20 > Watch Israel withdraw from Gaza on the day before the Inauguration. Aston= ishing=20 > (or not) what garbage these people are dumping into Obama's White House = the=20 > week before he moves in! Oy!=20 >=20 > Stephen Vincent=20 > http://stephenvincent.net/blog/=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20 > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es &=20 > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 22:29:44 -0000 Reply-To: Robin Hamilton Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Re: coMpetition does In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit By their fruits shall you know them ... The Workshop Strategy resulted in MFAs and competitive chapbook publication (for a price) ... The Group Strategy gave us Cambridge (UK) in the fifties, with Plath, Hughes, Redgrove, Wevill, then Belfast in the sixties, Glasgow in the late sixties with _Lanark_ and other things. Bite it and see ... The Wee M'Greegor > Recently I've met a couple of young poets (yet again) who dropped out > of poetry writing workshops because they were, in the words of one of > these poets, "eaten alive." ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 16:34:16 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: "Larry O. Dean" Organization: Poetry Center of Chicago Subject: AWP Offsite Event: Reading Bewteen the Lines MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Join emerging as well as established writers from across the US for this intimate reading scheduled to coincide during the annual AWP Conference. Readers so far confirmed include: Shaindel Beers Jessica Berger Emma Bolden Bruce Covey Jacque E. Day Larry O. Dean Lori Desrosiers Chris Hildebrand Amy King Matt Markgraf Pamela Johnson Parker Brianna Pike Davis Schneiderman Karissa Knox Sorrell Roger Stanley Richard Thomas Chet Weise Scott Woodham Szeznana Zabic More TBA. Stay tuned, and please spread the word about this event! THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 12 8:00 PM free! BEAT KITCHEN (upstairs) 2100 W. BELMONT AVE. 773-281-4444 http://beatkitchen.com/ Facebook event listing: http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=41039590678 ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 16:43:32 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: Can "nature" poetry be postmodern/post-structural? In-Reply-To: <9CA670E65AD94FCDB62751D1D392BABF@yourae066c3a9b> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Inger Christensen: Butterfly Valley: A Requiem. Hal "The true danger is when liberty is nibbled away, for expedients, and by parts." --Edmund Burke Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jan 13, 2009, at 5:01 AM, Gerald Schwartz wrote: > Ronald Johnson's The Shrubberies > > Gerald S. > >> Recently read Richard Louv's "Last Child In The Woods:Saving Our >> Children from Nature-Deficit Disorder" (2005,2008) and he references >> Wordsworth, and of course, Gary Snyder. And just this morning I found >> this: >> >> http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2008/dec/27/nick-laird-poetry-nature >> >> Can anyone suggest poets, critiques, etc. re: non-traditional >> nature poetry? >> >> Mary Jo Malo >> >> -- >> http://thisshiningwound.blogspot.com/ >> http://apophisdeconstructingabsurdity.blogspot.com/ >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 16:42:52 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Elizabeth Switaj Subject: Re: Eyeless in Gaza In-Reply-To: <011320092228.6312.496D15A10003DDE5000018A822216125569B0A02D29B9B0EBF0A000E0C0A099D0A0D@att.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 2:28 PM, AWAREing Press wrote: > True, true. My point is that classic literature and verse should be held as > sacrosanct. "So right you are", "James". "I set my copies" "of classic literature" "upon a marble shelf" "on my homemade altar" "and regularly" "sacrifice cows to them". "The blood of the throat" "I use to enclose them" "in a protective circle" "lest anyone interfere" "with their holy mission" "of being" "classic". "Twenty days after winter solstice" "each year", "I engage in a ritual dance" "in which I" "smash and destroy" "scissors and paste pots". "Of course", "it is only symbolic of" "my desire to eradicate" "borrowings and theft" "from my Gods", "as the books themselves" "are more idol than avatar" "anyway, but aren't" "all the best" "rituals that way"? "Elizabeth" "Kate" "Switaj" "www.elizabethkateswitjaj.net" ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 17:03:05 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Matt Henriksen Subject: Cannibal Books 2009 Subscriptions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii We are currently selling subscriptions for $60, which includes all our 2009 publications. Cannibal: Issue Four Narwhal Sent Forth to Die in a Happy City by Keith Newton Pardon Me, Madam by Marvyn Petrucci Someone Else's Body by Claire Donato Identity by Kevin Holden Untitled Wave by Carolyn Guinzio Transparency by Patrick Morrissey Autumn it gestures. by Thomas Hummel The Nightmare Filled You with Scary by Shane Jones "Search Party" by Frank Stanford (broadside, 2008) & any other books we release in 2009 Visit: http://flesheatingpoems.blogspot.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 00:06:55 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Robert Dewhurst Subject: Re: Hubert Huncke tribute, after the fact, Patti Smith, David Lawton, Tatum In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks for this note, Sarah. I wish I could have been at this event, & just thought I would add John Wieners's own send-up to your list . . . FOR HUNCKE by John Wieners Knowing no other god than this: the man who places on your mouth a kiss. Keep no mystery but his who whispers memory. Though he lead you to the desert or over hills where famine flowers, like the locust he devours what he loves most. Saving none for tomorrow, or dawn comes with empty arms, and he knows no way to feed himself, feeding off others, he has many, who find him, help him you be one and dedicate your life and misery to the upkeep of this cheapskate you love so much no one else seems to bridge the gap with their common habits and rude manners, his never were, a perfect gentleman who leaves no trace, but lingers through the room after he has gone, so I would follow anywhere, over desert or mountain, it's all the same if he's by my side. The guide and wizard I would worship and obey, my guardian teacher, who knows how to stay alive on practically nothing in the city until help comes, usually from a stranger or youth. Such I am or was who knew no better but all that I better forget now since I met you and fell into that pit of the past with no escape. You knock on the door, and off I go with you into the night with not even a cent in my pockets, without caring where or when I get back But if once you put your hand on my shoulders as David Rattray did last evening that would be enough, on the seventh night of the seventh moon, when Herd Boy meets the Weaving Lady in heaven and wanders forever lost in arms until dawn when you come no more. Sarah Sarai wrote: > Last Friday there was a Hubert Huncke tribute for his 94th birthday (if he were around to > celebrate) at Bowery Electric in N.Y.C. Readers (of his work) *included* Thurston Moore > from Sonic Youth (tall, rumpled, cool), Abel Ferrara (smart, not the best reader, but who > cares -- a privilege to see him), Tatum O’Neill (funny and utterly beautiful but needs to > go to more open mics and learn to shout over instead of at the people at the bar). And > Patti Smith. She stuck her gum > > on the music stand. She owned the stage. She owned the house. She brought the house > down, > > as did David Lawton (open mic poet; actor), co-organizer of the event. He was friends w/ > Huncke and performed what I hope is the beginning of a one-man show. I know this is all > > after the fact and I almost didn’t go. Lawton shamed me into going so I’m doing some > thanking, here. I don’t want the evening to almost pass away without notice and I don’t > want Lawton to almost not consider > > doing more. > > > > > > Sarah Sarai > www.myspace.com/sarahsarai > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 15:26:54 -0800 Reply-To: poet_in_hell@yahoo.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve russell Subject: Re: On Health, Holiness, Beauty and Poetry In-Reply-To: <368468.52988.qm@web46206.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Brilliant essay, Jan 9:Troy Camplin.=20 I take on faith that God is not apathetic. Perhaps this is why I'm so struc= k by Simone Weil, the greatest Christian gnostic of the 20th century. She d= ied very young. & yes,=A0 her silence concerning the Holocaust is troubling= . Had she lived longer, I suspect that she would not have remained silent. Anyone who considers themselves Christian should be grateful that the writi= ngs of=A0 this=A0 gifted,=A0 Jewish=A0 ( though not Jewish in the religious= sense as she couldn't stomach the unflinching violence in the Old Testamen= t) woman survived.=20 Simone did not survive an ugly, dark time.=20 --- On Tue, 1/13/09, Troy Camplin wrote: From: Troy Camplin Subject: Re: On Health, Holiness, Beauty and Poetry To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Tuesday, January 13, 2009, 2:28 PM Some excellent points here. Much to chew on. The first things that come to = mind are the following: First: holy encompasses more than does sacred. A person can be holy, but is= a person sacred? Places can be either holy or sacred. This is a distinction (another person suggested "spiritual" -- which is another word that I should address in this same context) I should address. My project here was = to make people think about the way the word is used, so it is contra Wittgenst= ein in the spirit of Wittgenstein, so to speak..=20 Second: I am arguing that, essentially, holiness and holism are the same, b= ut that the holiness/holism I am arguing for is not exclusive or where one ide= ology dominates another. I agree with you that the pomo argument against grand narratives is itself holistic, despite their best efforts (as I pointed out= once to a postmodernist, who didn't have an answer for my claim). However, they do attempt to dispose of the whole/holiness, and I think that is as dangero= us as those who think holiness is cancer. Third: good, bad, and evil can be understood as: knowledge of the good, and doing it; ignorance of the good; knowledge of the good, and working against= it. I think, then, that to be good, you have to have knowledge, including knowl= edge of the whole -- and have the wisdom to do it. Wisdom and knowledge combined constitute beauty, and the beautiful is holy. These are a few things I need= to make explicit and develop more.=20 Like I said, these are just a few quick thoughts. Your observations are spot-on, and will help me to develop these ideas much more. Thank you. Troy Camplin ________________________________ From: Jason Quackenbush To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 4:25:13 PM Subject: Re: On Health, Holiness, Beauty and Poetry Troy, I often disagree with you, but I can see a good deal of merit in your proje= ct here to reclaim the word holy. The analytic philosopher in me (eminently modernist, don't you know) wants a bit more rigor here though. to that end i would consider the following pairings with the word holy and holiness which I think maybe create some problems for what you're saying an= d that I think need answering. Don't misunderstand me, I think that there can be answers, I'm just curious about how the lines are drawn poetically and philosophically here. first: holy vs. sacred my own first among equals in the philosophical pantheon ludwig wittgenstein= has counseled that in most cases the meaning of a word is it's use in a loanguage. To that end, we often use the word holy in the same circumstance= that we might also use the word sacred. There is an overlap there just as there exists overlap between the unholy and the profane. But the terms are not coextensive and therefore not exact synonyms. I wonder what might be holy b= ut not sacred and in where the distinction lies. second: holiness vs holism there seems to be some blurring going on between the two words that I'm not sure i understand. are you saying that holism is by definition holy? how th= en do you account for competing views of holines? you touched on this a bit in what's below and yr comments on metanarrative, but I'd like to see a more explicit development of that thought, specifically given that the postmodern condition of skepticism toward metanarratives (holiness in your = view) is itself holistic. third: the holy vs the good is all that is holy good? is all that is good holy? if so, why the differen= t words and wahat do we make of the different qualities associated with each? holiness hasa connotation of unapproachability and beyond the merely human, whereas goodness is something that we can always seem ot find and appreciat= e. it is much like the aesthetic in this way. On Jan 9, 2009, at 9:24 AM, Troy Camplin wrote: > In English the words holy, whole, hale, and health are etymologically connected =96 Old English halig, hal, and h=E6lth, respectively, which are = all related to hal. Thus are they conceptually connected. To see the world as h= oly is to see the world as whole =96 it is to have the world =93appear infinite= and holy, whereas it now appears finite and corrupt=94 (William Blake, =93The Marriage of Heaven and Hell=94). The word holistic comes from the Greek hol= os, whole. Thus the holy is holistic =96 God is holy because He encompasses all= . Perhaps one could even say that we can recognize the divine only when we co= me to see the world as a whole, when we see the universe as universal. When we ca= n come >=20 > To see a World in a grain of sand, > And a Heaven in a wild flower, > Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand, > And Eternity in an hour. (William Blake, =93Auguries of Innocence=94) >=20 > Health and hale is the same. To have health is to have wholeness. To be hale is to be healthy =96 whole and complete. To make healthy is to make wh= ole again. One is healed through medication. But ideally, one would rather main= tain one=92s health than have to withstand the ravages of medication (pharmaceut= ical comes from the Greek pharmakon, which means both poison and medicine =96 as= it does today), though medication is necessary to stave off disease. This is t= he purpose of Plato=92s Pharmakon, to stave off disease. For disease is the opposite of health. >=20 > The Modern Era, which we are still in, though we may be at the end of it, began when Descartes split man in two =96 body and soul. It was a necessary division for the development of modern science (which Descartes all but adm= its to =96 the division is so the Church will tend to the soul, while the body = is left alone, to be tended to by scientists such as Descartes), but it was certainly an unholy division (as all divisions are, by definition). Kant deepened this division. Hegel tried to mend it through philosophical synthe= sis. Marx tried to mend it by recommending the overthrow of half of the world = =96 the world would then be wholly Proletarian. Nietzsche responded to Hegel by div= iding the world up even more =96 for him, humans are not divided into body and so= ul, but are instead a series of masks. With postmodernism, the division is comp= lete: men and women, multiculturalism, radical Cartesian individualism divide us = up more and more. Any universality is > denied. A necessary development =96 and not without its truth (I am awar= e of the irony of using the word truth, which comes from the Old English treo= wth, related to the word troth, from which we get the word betrothed, to speak o= f an idea that is more interested in divorce than betrothal). But it is precisel= y as unholy as one can get. >=20 > The deep divisions fostered by postmodernism came about because of a view that grand narratives, attempts to universalize, and seeing the world as holistic created the problems of the 20th Century. The Marxist grand narrat= ive gave us the gulag of the Soviet Union, the massacres of the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia, and any number of other slaughters done by governments who had embraced Marxist philosophy. We looked back on history after the Holocaust,= saw the grand narrative of Christianity had in the past itself promoted the kil= ling of Jews =96 particularly in the Inquisition =96 and concluded that it too w= as dangerous. One could also mention The Terror of the French Revolution. What= did Marxism, Medieval Christianity, and the French Revolution have in common? O= ne thing was that they were all grand narratives. Thus, the logic goes, it mus= t be grand narratives which are bad. And what do grand narratives do? They see t= he world as a whole, which must be > encompassed by their ideology. To make the world a whole, it must be placed under their one ideology. Thus, holistic world views were seen as ba= d =96 thus were they, and holiness, rejected. The path to Heaven =96 whether that heaven was celestial or earthly =96 seemed to lead us straight into Hell. Perhaps in part the rejection of holding a holistic view came about because= it is related to the holy, and the holy has been rejected. To the extent that wisdom is the ability to see the unity of the world =96 meaning wisdom is t= he ability to see the world as holy =96 wisdom was also rejected as impossible= , perhaps even undesirable. >=20 > The error in this way of thinking derives from the error made in seeing Communism, Christianity, or the ideals of the French Revolution as interest= ed in seeing the world as holistic. None of them saw the world as holistic, as ho= ly =96 they instead wanted to make the world whole, under their particular umbrellas. They too fostered divisions =96 there were enemies who had to be either converted or killed in order that the world could be made holy. =93F= or the cherub with his flaming sword is hereby commanded to leave his guard at= tree of life; and when he does, the whole creation will be consumed and appear infinite and holy=94 (Blake =93The Marriage of Heaven and Hell=94). Now Bla= ke here uses the word =93appear.=94 None of them saw the world as holy. It had= to be made so =96 through conflagration, if necessary. Postmodern thought, by dividing the world even more, does not help us to see the world as holy =96 quite the contrary. However, by insisting on > equality among the various parts =96 among individuals, among cultures, among religions, among any number of groups of individuals =96 postmodern thought may ironically make it now possible to see the world as being, rath= er than needing to become, holy. >=20 > It may seem ironic to suggest that only by reaching the most severe of divisions =96 seeing the world as eminently unholy =96 that we can finally = come to see that the world is in fact holy, but I am not being ironic. To see th= e world as holy is not to see everything in the world as equal in an egalitar= ian sense. There are hierarchies. To see the world as holy is to understand how everything fits into the world as a whole. It is to see the world as an imm= ense organism, and to care for its health. An organism is made up of systems, or= gans, tissues, cells, organelles, and various biochemicals. For one group to want= to envelop the entire world in one way of thinking, believing, viewing the wor= ld, would be the same as one cell wanting to envelop the entire organism in tha= t one type of cell. We have a word for cells that want to do that: cancer. The postmodernists have mistaken viewing the actions of cancerous cells for see= ing the whole organism. Cancer must > be fought, not mistaken for the animal it is in. That is the only way on= e can have a healthy organism =96 and it is the only way to have a holy world= .. Like a healthy organism, a holy world is complex. Like a healthy organism, = a holy world has smoothly working parts in communication with each other thro= ugh clear rules that proscribe what each part needs to do for the whole to work well. Like a healthy organism, this cannot come from any centralized author= ity =96 there is no one control cell in the body, and the brain must have the l= ungs just as much as the lungs must have the brain. A holy world is like a healt= hy organism. >=20 > In Negative Theology, one comes to know what God is by figuring out what God is not. Aristotle says that if you are not sure if something is good, t= ry to figure out what is bad, and you can then deduce that what is good is its opposite. > The following are unhealthy: >=20 > 1. Overeating, including eating a high percentage of foods with low nutritional value, while remaining inactive (not exercising) > 2. Either stagnation or change without continuity =96 both create instability > 3. Stress and anxiety =96 which comes about from not realizing that there are parts of the world that one cannot control, and can lead to anger at th= ose very things > 4. Hatred =96 aside from raising the blood pressure, it can cause one to act in ways that would be unhealthy for the object of our hatred > 5. Cancer =96 already discussed > 6. Excess =96 including the excess of moderation > 7. Shackles =96 prevents sufficient movement, equating to lack of exercis= e > 8. Pollution =96 it can lead to any number of diseases > 9. An overly-clean environment =96 it can prevent our immune systems from developing properly, making us more susceptible to diseases, especially autoimmune diseases > 10. Suicide =96 inherently and obviously unhealthy > 11. Isolation =96 loneliness can lead to depression, which depresses the immune system > 12. Ignorance =96 either of the world or of oneself, as one cannot maintain one=92s health if one is ignorant of what can harm it or improve i= t >=20 > This leads one to posit the following are healthy: >=20 > 1. Exercise, with a diet proper to the amount of exercise and of high nutritional value > 2. Change with continuity > 3. Realizing that there are parts of the world that one cannot control, thus reducing stress and anxiety > 4. Love > 5. Keeping the body in hierarchical harmony > 6. Moderation in everything, including moderation =96 remembering that moderation is an extreme in the same way that life is an extreme state of organic chemistry > 7. Freedom =96 remembering that freedom does not equate to a lack of rules, but is rather what is achieved through playing by the best rules > 8. Cleanliness (which, as the saying goes, is next to Godliness, meaning it is holy) > 9. A non-sanitized world =96 a world without dirt is a world that makes unhealthy organisms > 10. Love of one=92s own life > 11. Friends > 12. Knowledge =96 including self-knowledge >=20 > One can make a similar list of what makes for a healthy mind: > 1. Taking in healthy information =96 good art, music, literature, philosophy, the sciences, etc. =96 with sufficient exercise of the mind thr= ough thought, discussion, and writing > 2. Change with continuity > 3.. Realizing that there are parts of the world that one cannot control, thus reducing stress and anxiety, which can negatively affect the mind as w= ell as the body > 4. Love > 5. Having a variety of inputs =96 obsession with one thing alone is a kin= d of mental cancer > 6. Moderation in everything, including moderation =96 moderation of reading, of rigorous thought, sexual thoughts, work, play, physical activit= y, etc. > 7. Freedom of thought =96 we must not think in shackles, but with flexibl= e rules > 8. Cleanliness of thought =96 this does not necessarily mean what it has traditionally meant in the West, though it can certainly contain some eleme= nts; thinking about sex is in and of itself not unclean > 9. Realization that we do not and cannot live in a sanitized world, as that stops thought and creativity > 10. Love of thinking > 11. Friends =96 as Aristotle says in Rhetoric, =93a wide circle of friends, a virtuous circle of friends,=94 and, I would add, a mentally stimulating circle of friends > 12. Knowledge =96 including self knowledge =96 with the goal of wisdom >=20 > A holy world is one that parallels the healthy body and the healthy mind, and will have the above qualities, including moderation in everything, incl= uding moderation (i.e., it will be a just world), freedom (this is freedom from, = not freedom to), love, friendship, and beauty. A holy world is a beautiful worl= d, both having variety in unity, unity in variety, complexity, and fluid hiera= rchy that is self-similar regardless of scale. All of the parts, living in love = and friendship (which does not exclude healthy competition, such as we find in sports and in free trade), living in a complex dynamic with each other, liv= ing as individuals in various communities, many of which overlap and are nested within other communities, must be self-similar to have a holy world. >=20 > In Greek, to kalon means the beautiful, but it can also mean the honorabl= e or the noble =96 and kala can mean either things that are beautiful or thin= gs that are morally good. In the Rhetoric, Aristotle says that =93Now kalon describes whatever, through being chosen for itself, is praiseworthy or whatever, through being good [agathon], is pleasant because it is good [agathon]. If this, then, is the kalon, then virtue is necessarily kalon; f= or it is praiseworthy because of being good [agathon]=94 (79). Elaine Scarry poin= ts out that in English too, there is a connection between beauty and the good = (the just), when she points out that to say that something is fair is to say tha= t it is either beautiful or that it is just. In Greek and in English, the beauti= ful and the good are connected. If a holy world is a beautiful world, it is a g= ood and just world as well. As Heraclitus said, =93For god all things are fair = and just, but men have taken some things as > unjust, others as just=94 (LXVIII). The key here is that we see the worl= d itself as just =96 not the actions of each and every individual. The world = is itself justified and cannot itself be unjust. This is consistent with the teachings of any religion that sees the world as having been created by God= or the gods =96 how could a fair and just god create a world that was itself unjust? And if theistic religions are rejected, how can the world itself possibly be unjust? To say it is unjust is to give it anthropomorphic quali= ties. It is people who have taken some things as being just, others as unjust =96= but the world itself is self-justified. Those who do not see the world as just = are those who do not see the world as holy =96 often they are the same people w= ho think the only way the world can be justified is if the world is made holy through the transformation of it into a perfect mirror of themselves. But w= e have seen that a world made up of only one > world view is a cancerous world =96 and the world, as a cancerous organism, will die. An organism cannot consist of one type of cell =96 that= is the unhealthiest of organisms. And a world having only one world view is th= e unhealthiest of worlds. In the same way that a healthy body consists of a variety of cells that are variations of the same theme coded by identical D= NA, a healthy world consists of a variety of peoples that are variations of the s= ame themes coded for by our being human and sharing the same cultural universal= s. >=20 > Beauty is also related to health =96 as we can see in the beauty we find in nature. Healthy plants produce the most beautiful flowers. Healthy peaco= cks produce the largest, most symmetrical, most colorful feathers. Healthy gobi= es and other territorial reef fish have the brightest colors. All of this natu= ral beauty is the advertisement of health to the opposite sex. The healthiest h= uman bodies (neither overweight nor super model thin) are the most beautiful. Th= us is there also a relationship between health, beauty, and sex. If beauty can th= us be equated to health, we can see that beauty is again equated to the holy. And= we can see too that sex in-and-of-itself is and cannot be unholy, as it is connected (but not equivalent) to beauty. >=20 > A holy world is a whole world. It is a healthy world. It is a good and just world. It is a complex world. It is a world of individuals in communit= y. It is a beautiful world. But is it a possible world? I have already given the answer: the world is itself already holy. We just have to learn to see it a= s holy. That is how we will heal the world. And, as we do, we will become les= s and less likely to want or try to eliminate those who disagree with us =96 unti= l we are all in agreement on this one issue, as all the cells in an organism are= in agreement on the one issue that they must work together for the health of t= he whole, even as each performs its own function. Thus, the world will become = more and more holy in our eyes. In works of tragedy, nomos (convention, human la= w, naming; from which we get the words nomad and nomenclature, and which is th= e changing and changeable aspect of the world) comes into conflict with physi= s (or nature; from which we get the > word physics). That is the position we are now in. When we get nomos to map onto physis (Heraclitus calls this conjunction logos =96 which can be translated as saying, speech, discourse, word, account, explanation, reason= , principle, collection, enumeration, ratio, proportion), we will see the wor= ld as it truly is: holy. >=20 > On the Holy >=20 > Where lies the holy in the modern world? > It lies in Blake=92s world in a grain of sand =96 > It lies, and lies like the truth, in patterns > Like self-organized rings of rocks barren > Arctic fields create. It lies in the branch > Of every tree and species, leafing out > From the known into the unknown. It lies > In every song, painting and rhythmic verse. > We have looked at every leaf and petal, > At the bark and at the wood, every cell > And strand of DNA is now known =96 > And we have forgotten that all of this > Was once a tree that gave us shade and filled > The air with delicate sweetness and held > The grains of sand against its roots to hold > The ground in place, even as that ground moves > And changes in tiny ways we refuse > To see. In this we can see the holy. > This is where it lies, now and forever, > On the edge of order and wild chaos, > Where the infinite holds in the finite, > Where we, ourselves holy, have always lived. >=20 > Troy Camplin >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html Jason Quackenbush jfq@myuw.net =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 16:04:04 -0800 Reply-To: layne@whiteowlweb.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Layne Russell Subject: Re: coMpetition does MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I wonder how many of our acclaimed poets of the past went to poetry = workshops. Layne ----- Original Message -----=20 From: CA Conrad=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 9:28 AM Subject: coMpetition does Recently I've met a couple of young poets (yet again) who dropped out of poetry writing workshops because they were, in the words of one of these poets, "eaten alive." The conversation isn't new. And it's not a conversation about workshops in particular, but competition in a bigger sense. When is competition good, meaning productive, meaning THE THING which spurs poets into action in the best sense, in the sense of WANTING to write as well as they can. And when is competition ugly, filled with envy and jealousy, reaching a surprising number of times in my observations to the most corrupt, wicked, disturbing places people can get to. The conversation is tricky because I'm always trying to ask, investigate with others, WHERE IS THE line between competition when it's healthy, and rotten? =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 20:16:26 -0800 Reply-To: poet_in_hell@yahoo.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve russell Subject: Re: coMpetition does In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well said, Conrad. I'm afraid I've also been guilty of destructive criticis= m, but fortunately I've grown up a little in the last decade.=A0 =20 --- On Tue, 1/13/09, CA Conrad wrote: From: CA Conrad Subject: coMpetition does To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Tuesday, January 13, 2009, 12:28 PM Recently I've met a couple of young poets (yet again) who dropped out of poetry writing workshops because they were, in the words of one of these poets, "eaten alive." The conversation isn't new. And it's not a conversation about workshops in particular, but competition in a bigger sense. When is competition good, meaning productive, meaning THE THING which spurs poets into action in the best sense, in the sense of WANTING to write as well as they can. And when is competition ugly, filled with envy and jealousy, reaching a surprising number of times in my observations to the most corrupt, wicked, disturbing places people can get to. The conversation is tricky because I'm always trying to ask, investigate with others, WHERE IS THE line between competition when it's healthy, and rotten? There's no doubt in my mind that these two young poets (the latest two that is, as I've been having this conversation for years now and I don't even remember how many times I've had it frankly) love, really LOVE poetry. We share that, we find when talking that we share that DRIVE, depositing ourselves in front of bookstore poetry sections, and libraries, and asking everyone we know who their favorite poets are, and titles, and never getting enough of this love. Never getting enough of it. And not just feeling sad when a bookstore like GOTHAM BOOKMART closes down but ANGRY! We're so much alike, and we tell one another what we're most excited about NOW, and everyone's scratching notes for the library and bookstore. How we're NOT alike is that these two young poets are VERY vulnerable to attack. When they were said to be "eaten alive" I'm not surprised. And I'm sad, and wish they were MORE LIKE ME and laugh at the bastards and say, "OH YOU'RE JUST A HATER, YOU JEALOUS PIG!"=20 Or, "Yeah well, THANKS, being attacked GETS ME UP IN THE MORNING TO MAKE YOU ANGRY!" It feeds me when someone attacks me, I LOVE it. But of course a lot of people don't respond well when they're attacked, and this makes me sad. I've known poets WHOSE POEMS MADE ME HAPPY who stopped writing poems because of such attacks. In some cases the attacks were from their professors, and the other students, egged-on by the professors. A FEEDING FRENZY in such a way that makes me want to puke for poetry. It disgusts me this kind of behavior. I'm not a professor, but I have conducted poetry workshops, and it's NOT HARD AT ALL in my opinion to keep the focus about everyone (including myself because I want to learn from THEM TOO!) investigating poetry together! My focus is about PROCESS, about the many weird ways to MAKE poetry happen, NOT ABOUT who is writing poems I think are good, or another person in the workshop thinks are good, or not. This is NOT goody-two-shoe bullshit, I'm JUST NOT INTERESTED in telling someone whether I like their poems or not when I'm conducting workshops. And it's none of my business frankly. But to LOVE poetry, and read it, and create it, and have it in our lives, now THAT is something I get very excited about! But what is that line? When is it crossed from productive and beautiful and everyone's excited and MAKING poetry, to that place of shit? I'd rather see poems ABOUT that dark spot on the poetry map, than see it overwhelm another poet. And I mean overwhelm the poet who NEEDS to be vicious, and of course I mean the poet who gets beaten down. This conversation cannot happen unless we talk about the bigger things around it, like, WHY IS EVERYONE NOT UNDERSTANDING EVERYONE IS CREATIVE WE ARE ALL CREATIVE THIS IS NOT UP FOR DEBATE. Or is it? I've had people tell me this is wrong, that everyone's NOT creative. But I disagree. And the conversation needs to be about how the way poets act about scarcity and fear that there's not enough NOT ENOUGH magazines NOT ENOUGH awards or enough room at the reading series, not enough, is really, such an old story about us being animals. And the conversation needs to be about how to protect ourselves if we can't withstand the attacks. And the conversation needs to be about how people don't need to attack others because THERE IS ENOUGH. And the conversation needs to be about how art and all our creative abilities have become part of a big system in the capital of art and poetry, and books, and writing programs and teaching and, and, and CONSUMPTION, and frankly how, more than ever there's more reasons than ever for us to feel like we're NOT working hard enough, NOT being good enough, NOT good enough, so many reasons to feel like shit. It's a big conversation. But I feel I'm always having it. And it's one of the most important ones to have some days, especially when I meet young poets who have just been destroyed in workshops, made to feel worthless. The one poet started crying, and said, literally between sobs, "ALL I WANT TO DO IS WRITE POETRY!" It's really awful, I just want to hit whoever did this to this person, but of course that's not helpful. The line crossed is hard to see because it's different for everyone, I think. Right? Sometimes I'm not sure I'm right about that, but it feels right, doesn't just feel like an answer I've come up with to forget thinking about it, because I really want to figure it out, if it can be figured out. There's too much at stake, at least it feels that way when I meet YET ANOTHER amazing young poet who becomes afraid of workshops and other poets and stops writing. I've met so many amazing poets who stop, for so many reasons they stop. The most common reason though is that they get worn out from the struggle of dealing with many hungry egos. And their own hungry ego. It goes back to the discussion about why we're writing, and what has writing become in this world for us? CAConrad --=20 PhillySound: new poetry http://PhillySound.blogspot.com THE BOOK OF FRANK by CAConrad http://CAConrad.blogspot.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 01:25:39 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: coMpetition does MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit here here CA i fully understand being one who has always avoided workshops and it probably shows On Tue, 13 Jan 2009 12:28:19 -0500 CA Conrad writes: > Recently I've met a couple of young poets (yet again) who dropped > out > of poetry writing workshops because they were, in the words of one > of > these poets, "eaten alive." > > The conversation isn't new. And it's not a conversation about > workshops in particular, but competition in a bigger sense. > > When is competition good, meaning productive, meaning THE THING > which > spurs poets into action in the best sense, in the sense of WANTING > to > write as well as they can. > > And when is competition ugly, filled with envy and jealousy, > reaching > a surprising number of times in my observations to the most > corrupt, > wicked, disturbing places people can get to. > > The conversation is tricky because I'm always trying to ask, > investigate with others, WHERE IS THE line between competition when > it's healthy, and rotten? > > There's no doubt in my mind that these two young poets (the latest > two > that is, as I've been having this conversation for years now and I > don't even remember how many times I've had it frankly) love, > really > LOVE poetry. We share that, we find when talking that we share > that > DRIVE, depositing ourselves in front of bookstore poetry sections, > and > libraries, and asking everyone we know who their favorite poets > are, > and titles, and never getting enough of this love. Never getting > enough of it. And not just feeling sad when a bookstore like > GOTHAM > BOOKMART closes down but ANGRY! > > We're so much alike, and we tell one another what we're most > excited > about NOW, and everyone's scratching notes for the library and > bookstore. How we're NOT alike is that these two young poets are > VERY > vulnerable to attack. When they were said to be "eaten alive" I'm > not > surprised. And I'm sad, and wish they were MORE LIKE ME and laugh > at > the bastards and say, "OH YOU'RE JUST A HATER, YOU JEALOUS PIG!" > Or, > "Yeah well, THANKS, being attacked GETS ME UP IN THE MORNING TO > MAKE > YOU ANGRY!" It feeds me when someone attacks me, I LOVE it. > > But of course a lot of people don't respond well when they're > attacked, and this makes me sad. I've known poets WHOSE POEMS MADE > ME > HAPPY who stopped writing poems because of such attacks. In some > cases the attacks were from their professors, and the other > students, > egged-on by the professors. A FEEDING FRENZY in such a way that > makes > me want to puke for poetry. It disgusts me this kind of behavior. > > I'm not a professor, but I have conducted poetry workshops, and > it's > NOT HARD AT ALL in my opinion to keep the focus about everyone > (including myself because I want to learn from THEM TOO!) > investigating poetry together! My focus is about PROCESS, about > the > many weird ways to MAKE poetry happen, NOT ABOUT who is writing > poems > I think are good, or another person in the workshop thinks are > good, > or not. > > This is NOT goody-two-shoe bullshit, I'm JUST NOT INTERESTED in > telling someone whether I like their poems or not when I'm > conducting > workshops. And it's none of my business frankly. But to LOVE > poetry, > and read it, and create it, and have it in our lives, now THAT is > something I get very excited about! > > But what is that line? When is it crossed from productive and > beautiful and everyone's excited and MAKING poetry, to that place > of > shit? > > I'd rather see poems ABOUT that dark spot on the poetry map, than > see > it overwhelm another poet. And I mean overwhelm the poet who NEEDS > to > be vicious, and of course I mean the poet who gets beaten down. > > This conversation cannot happen unless we talk about the bigger > things > around it, like, WHY IS EVERYONE NOT UNDERSTANDING EVERYONE IS > CREATIVE WE ARE ALL CREATIVE THIS IS NOT UP FOR DEBATE. Or is it? > I've had people tell me this is wrong, that everyone's NOT > creative. > But I disagree. > > And the conversation needs to be about how the way poets act about > scarcity and fear that there's not enough NOT ENOUGH magazines NOT > ENOUGH awards or enough room at the reading series, not enough, is > really, such an old story about us being animals. > > And the conversation needs to be about how to protect ourselves if > we > can't withstand the attacks. > > And the conversation needs to be about how people don't need to > attack > others because THERE IS ENOUGH. > > And the conversation needs to be about how art and all our creative > abilities have become part of a big system in the capital of art > and > poetry, and books, and writing programs and teaching and, and, and > CONSUMPTION, and frankly how, more than ever there's more reasons > than > ever for us to feel like we're NOT working hard enough, NOT being > good > enough, NOT good enough, so many reasons to feel like shit. > > It's a big conversation. But I feel I'm always having it. And > it's > one of the most important ones to have some days, especially when I > meet young poets who have just been destroyed in workshops, made to > feel worthless. The one poet started crying, and said, literally > between sobs, "ALL I WANT TO DO IS WRITE POETRY!" It's really > awful, > I just want to hit whoever did this to this person, but of course > that's not helpful. > > The line crossed is hard to see because it's different for everyone, > I > think. Right? Sometimes I'm not sure I'm right about that, but it > feels right, doesn't just feel like an answer I've come up with to > forget thinking about it, because I really want to figure it out, > if > it can be figured out. There's too much at stake, at least it > feels > that way when I meet YET ANOTHER amazing young poet who becomes > afraid > of workshops and other poets and stops writing. > > I've met so many amazing poets who stop, for so many reasons they > stop. The most common reason though is that they get worn out from > the struggle of dealing with many hungry egos. And their own > hungry > ego. It goes back to the discussion about why we're writing, and > what > has writing become in this world for us? > > CAConrad > -- > PhillySound: new poetry http://PhillySound.blogspot.com > > THE BOOK OF FRANK by CAConrad http://CAConrad.blogspot.com > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 01:42:06 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: space available for meetings poetry events book parties small concerts holds 30-40 people non-profit needs money to survive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tribes Gallery run by the blind professor Steve Cannon needs your help We are offering our space for events contact Tribes at 285 E #rd Street NYC Space available for meetings and events at very reasonable rates. Call 212-674-8262. ************************************************ To find out more about Tribes, who we are and what we do, check out Tribes on Myspace/A Gathering of the Tribes; Youtube under HOWL, Native New Yorker, Amiri Baraka/Tribes; Facebook; Flickr: http:/www.flickr.com/photos/tribesgalleryphotos/; and www.dowpub.com. Tribes books and magazines are available on Tribes website www.tribes.org, Ebay.com, and Amazon.com. Tribes is a member of Chamber Music of America, Poets & Writers, Poets Society of America, and St. Marks Poetry Project. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 02:08:48 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David Kirschenbaum Subject: NYC Tues./ Gilmore Boys Live, Lyrics By Me Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v924) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please forward ------------------ Tues., Jan. 20, 8:00 p.m. $5 suggested donation with a two-drink minimum Sidewalk Caf=E9 94 Ave. A (at E. 6th St.) East Village In Concert Gilmore Boys http://www.myspace.com/casey http://www.myspace.com/thesewingcircle =93[Preston Spurlock and my] very specific and delightful side-project=97 we only write songs based on the Gilmore Girls, and the lyrics of said songs are only based on poems by David Kirschenbaum.=94 =97Casey =20= Holford These songs come from my monthly poem writing projects, with this work =20= spanning June 7, 2005 to May 1, 2007, 694 days and 687 poems, 28 of =20 which referenced Gilmore Girls. I=92ll be reading a few of those 28 =20 poems, then Gilmore Boys will perform their songs of still others. =20 Preston and Casey are great musicians, and they=92ve done some pretty =20= wonderful work turning these poems into songs, deciding what would be =20= best as choruses and verses, making each piece fun and distinct. This is all part of Casey=92s monthlong of Tuesdays residency at the =20 Sidewalk Caf=E9, ending on Jan. 27 with a performance by his band =20 Outlines. Plus Toby Goodshank http://www.myspace.com/tobygoodshank A prolific performer, Moldy Peach Goodshank inhabits the stages of NYC =20= solo and with bands Double Deuce (along with sister Angela Babyskin) =20 and The Tri-Lambs (with Angela and her sister Crystal Babyskin). These =20= projects have "Goodshank" written all over them, with his signature =20 heart-felt pornographic tendencies lending the songs a sense of erotic =20= wonder and innocence. If Anti-Folk has ever known a legend in the =20 making, destined to have his records collected by the troubled =20 teenagers of the future, it is Toby Goodshank. Directions: F/V to 2nd Ave., L to 1st Ave. For further information: 212-842-BOOG (2664), editor@boogcity.com --=20 David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W. 28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://www.welcometoboogcity.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664)= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 13:13:54 +0100 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Anny Ballardini Subject: the Winter Anthology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline With my acknowledgments to all those who contributed, I invite you to read the collection of Winter poems on the Poets' Corner: http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3DContent&pa=3Dlist_pages_catego= ries&cid=3D329 *=B7* Editorial: Anny Ballardini *=B7* Martha King *=B7* Hiram Larew *=B7* James Cervantes *=B7* Laura Kennelly *=B7* Edward Mycue *=B7* Alicia Ostriker *=B7* Geof Huth * =B7* Elizabeth Smither *=B7* Daniel Zimmerman *=B7* Barry Spacks *=B7* Eve Rifkah *=B7* Gertrude Halstead *=B7* Beverly Matherne *=B7* Donna Pecore *=B7* Jeff Harrison *=B7* Grace Cavalieri *=B7* Diane Lockward *=B7* Camille Martin *=B7* Dennis Barone *=B7* Alan Sondheim *=B7* Alexander Dickow *=B7* Douglas Clark *=B7* David Graham *=B7* Bob Grumman *=B7* Eileen Tabios *=B7* Sarah Menefee *=B7* Pam Brown * =B7* Ray DiPalma *=B7* Jerry McGuire *=B7* Henry Reed *=B7* Paolo Ruffilli *=B7* Allen Bramhall *=B7* J.P. Dancing Bear *=B7* Mark Weiss *=B7* Susan Rich *=B7* Karl Young *=B7* Ruth Fainlight *=B7* Geoffrey Gatza *=B7* Jim Leftwich *=B7* Alan Michael Parker *=B7* Barbara Crooker *=B7* Jerome Rothenberg *=B7* Deborah Humphreys *=B7* Paolo Dalponte *=B7* Susan Edwards *=B7* Jean Lamberty *=B7* Ned Condini *=B7* Jill Jones *=B7* Lois Roma-Deeley *=B7* Fan Ogilvie *=B7* Peter Ciccariello *=B7* Frank Parker *=B7* Jon Corelis *=B7* Tim Mayo *=B7 * Alan Halsey * =B7* Spencer Selby *=B7* M=E1rton Kopp=E1ny *=B7* Wendy Vardaman *=B7* Dan Waber * =B7* Wendy Taylor Carlisle *=B7* Evelyn Posamentier *=B7* Sheila E. Murphy *=B7* Ann Fisher- Wirth *=B7* Bob Holman *=B7* Berty Skuber *=B7* Michael Peverett *=B7* Obododimma Oha *=B7* Richard Dillon *=B7* Diane Kendig *=B7* Jukka-Pekka Kervinen *=B7* Geraldine Monk *=B7* William Allegrezza *=B7* S=E9amas Cain I would also like to invite you to the Autumn Anthology that, after my update, received more submissions: http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3DContent&pa=3Dlist_pages_catego= ries&cid=3D318 *=B7* Introduction by Anny Ballardini *=B7* Dirk Vekemans *=B7* Bobbi Lurie *=B7* Anny Ballardini *=B7* Obododimma Oha *=B7* Jeff Harrison *=B7* Cecil Touchon *=B7* Halvard Johnson *=B7* Jill McCabe Johnson *=B7* Ann Neuser Lederer *=B7* Barbara Crooker *=B7* Christina Pacosz *=B7* Penelope Schott *=B7* Georgia Ann Banks-Martin *=B7* Sandra Giedeman *=B7* Joel Weishaus *=B7* Pat Falk *=B7 * Tim Mayo *=B7* Wendy Taylor Carlisle *=B7* Wendy Vardaman *=B7* Bill Morgan *=B7* Eileen Tabios *=B7* Sheila E. Murphy *=B7* Alan Sondheim *=B7* David Graham *=B7* Tad Richards *=B7* Bob Grumman *=B7* Henry Gould *=B7* Jukka-Pekka Kervinen *=B7* Guido Catalano *=B7* Ruth Fainlight *=B7* Ann Fisher-Wirth *=B7* Fan Ogilvie *=B7* Larissa Shmailo *=B7* Geof Huth * =B7* Grace Cavalieri *=B7* Mark Weiss *=B7* Pam Brown * =B7* David Howard *=B7* Edward Mycue *=B7* Elizabeth Smither *=B7* Elena Karina Byrne *=B7* David-Baptiste Chirot *=B7* Nico Vassilakis *=B7* Allen Bramhall *=B7* Dan Waber * =B7* Aaron Belz * =B7* Nicholas Piombino *=B7* Joseph Duemer *=B7* Daniel Zimmerman *=B7* Geoffrey Gatza *=B7* Jon Corelis *=B7* Berty Skuber *=B7* Peter Ciccariello *=B7* Evelyn Posamentier *=B7* Sharon Dolin *=B7* Mark Young *=B7* Charles Martin *=B7* Skip Fox *=B7 * Dianalee Velie *=B7* William Allegrezza *=B7* Karl Young *=B7* Richard Dillon *=B7* Dan Waber * =B7* Geraldine Monk --=20 Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3Dpoetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 07:17:37 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Alan Sondheim Subject: blog article about The Accidental Artist MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed (sent to me by Opensource Obscure, and thanks - Alan) http://www.secondlifeupdate.com/virtual-world-experiences/top-5-works-of-art-in-second-life-pics-video-the-accidental-artist/ or http://bit.ly/Ne0N ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 07:40:39 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Bailout Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) (this piggybacks nicely on the brothel dissection...) Grad Student Selling Virginity Flooded With Offers http://cbs13.com/local/selling.virginity.tuition.2.815171.html A Sacramento State grad trying to make money by auctioning off her virginity to help pay for her graduate studies is getting lots of offers...and not just for sex. The 22-year-old who is using the pseudonym Natalie Dylan for safety reasons is going through a legal brothel in Nevada to sell her virginity. Dylan told CBS13 she's gotten an offer of $250,000. And now she's gotten an offer to do a photo spread for Penthouse magazine. The auction is being handled by the Bunny Ranch in Carson City, Nevada with bids coming in through their website. Dylan says she's already taken a polygraph test to prove her virginal status, and is also willing to undergo a medical exam. "The main purpose of this is to finance a couple things in my life," Dylan told CBS13. "I think empowerment of women is picking yourself up and doing something on your own to better yourself." So far, hundreds of offers have already come in including some from male virgins. Natalie says she won't give up her virginity to the highest bidder. She's also seeking other qualities from her first lover. "I'm looking for intelligence and an overall nice person," said Dylan. Dylan says she ended up in a financial bind, because her stepfather allegedly used her college status to fraudulently apply for student loans, and then ran off with the money. Dylan earned her bachelor's degree in women's studies from Sacramento State and plans to get her master's at the school beginning in January. Many Sac State students say they're shocked to hear about their former classmate's plan, while others applaud her. "She's just giving it to some random person. And I just think she should be giving it to someone special she loves," said one student on campus. While another felt that selling her virginity for grad school "is a noble reason to get money." As for Natalie, after claiming to hold on to her virginity for 22 years (although the Bunny Ranch website claims she is 21-years-old), she says she has a commodity not many people have to sell. "When I was younger, I wanted 100% romance, possibly even wait for marriage. But as I grew up, reality kinda hit. And I think its a capitalistic society and I want to capitalize on this," explained Dylan. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 08:42:37 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Gary Sullivan Subject: SEGUE WINTER-SPRING 2009 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 SEGUE READING SERIES @ BOWERY POETRY CLUB Winter / Spring 2009 Saturdays: 4:00 p.m. - 6:00 p.m. 308 BOWERY=2C just north of Houston $6 adm= ission goes to support the readers The Segue Reading Series is made possible by the support of The Segue Found= ation. For more information=2C please visit seguefoundation.com=2C bowerypo= etry.com=2C or call (212) 614-0505. Curators: February-March by Nada Gordon= & Gary Sullivan=2C April-May by Kristen Gallagher & Tim Peterson. FEBRUARY =20 FEBRUARY 7 KENNETH GOLDSMITH and EDWIN TORRES=20 Kenneth Goldsmith is the author of ten books of poetry and founding editor = of UbuWeb (ubu.com). He is the host of a weekly radio show on New York City= =92s WFMU and teaches writing at The University of Pennsylvania. A book of = critical essays=2C Uncreative Writing=2C is forthcoming from Columbia Unive= rsity Press. Edwin Torres is a NYC born lingualisualist currently on hiatus= from the apple=2C living upstate. A NYFA recipient and 2006/7 Lower Manhat= tan Cultural Council Writer-in-Residence=2C he=92s been widely published an= d taught his Brainlingo workshop at numerous venues & universities. His boo= ks include=2C The PoPedology Of An Ambient Language (Atelos Books)=2C The A= ll-Union Day Of The Shock Worker (Roof Books)=2C Onomalingua: noise songs a= nd poems (Rattapallax e-book)=2C and Please (Faux Press CD-Rom). =20 FEBRUARY 14 STEVE BENSON and STEPHANIE YOUNG=20 Steve Benson=2C formerly of the San Francisco Bay area=2C has lived in Down= east Maine since 1996. Transcripts of orally improvised performances appea= r in Blindspots (Whale Cloth=2C 1981)=2C Reverse Order (Potes and Poets=2C = 1989)=2C Blue Book (The Figures/Roof=2C 1998) and Open Clothes (Atelos=2C 2= 005)=2C along with written works. With nine other bay area language poets= =2C he is preparing part 8 of The Grand Piano: An Experiment in Collective = Autobiography (Mode A=2C 2006-present). Stephanie Young lives and works in = Oakland. Her books of poetry are Picture Palace (in girum imus nocte et con= sumimur igni=2C 2008) and Telling the Future Off (Tougher Disguises=2C 2005= ). She edited Bay Poetics (Faux Press=2C 2006) and her most recent editoria= l project is Deep Oakland=2C deepoakland.org. She blogs so rarely at stepha= nieyoung.org/blog. =20 FEBRUARY 21 MELANIE NIELSON and SARA WINTZ=20 Melanie Nielson was born in Humboldt=2C Tennessee=2C grew up in Southern Ca= lifornia=2C and lives in New York City. She edited Big Allis magazine for m= any years with Jessica Grim=2C and is the author of Civil Noir (Roof Books= =2C 1991). Sara Wintz=92s writing has appeared in Ecopoetics=2C Cricket Onl= ine Review=2C Interrobang?!=2C and on Ceptuetics. She co-directs=2C with Cr= istiana Baik=2C :the press gang:=2C publisher of Intricate Systems=2C by Ju= liana Spahr and One Might=2C by Karen Volkman. She lives in Brooklyn and wo= rks at P.S.1 Contemporary Art Center. =20 FEBRUARY 28 JOHN GIORNO and BRIAN KIM STEFANS=20 John Giorno is the author of many books of poetry=2C which have been transl= ated into several languages. Subduing Demons in America: The Selected Poems= of John Giorno=2C 1962-2008=2C a career-spanning survey of his work=2C wil= l be published by Counterpoint/Soft Skull in 2008. Brian Kim Stefans=92 mos= t recent books are What is Said to the Poet Concerning Flowers (Factory Sch= ool=2C 2006)=2C Kluge: A Mediation=2C and other works (Roof=2C 2007) and Be= fore Starting Over: Selected Writings and Interviews (Salt=2C 2006). He jus= t moved to Los Angeles to take a position as professor of English and Digit= al Humanities at UCLA.=20 MARCH MARCH 7 JEROME SALA and RACHEL ZOLF=20 Jerome Sala has been described as an =93honorable hysteric=94 by critic Pet= er Schjeldahl. His latest book is Look Slimmer Instantly from Soft Skull Pr= ess. Other books include cult classics such as Spaz Attack=2C I Am Not a Ju= venile Delinquent and The Trip. Rachel Zolf=92s collections include Human R= esources (Coach House=2C 2007)=2C which won the 2008 Trillium Book Award fo= r Poetry=2C Shoot and Weep (Nomados=2C 2008)=2C and Masque (Mercury=2C 2004= ). =20 MARCH 14 CHARLES BERNSTEIN and ADEENA KARASICK=20 Charles Bernstein is the CFO of the Center for Avant-Garde Comedy and Stand= -Up Poetry. His most recent book is Blind Witness: Three American Operas. A= deena Karasick is the 2008 winner of the MPS mobile award=2C poet media art= ist and author of six books of poetry and poetic theory. Forthcoming is Amu= se Bouche Tasty Treats for the Mouth (Talonbooks=2C 2009). She teaches Film= and Literature at CUNY. =20 MARCH 21 K. SILEM MOHAMMAD and LYTLE SHAW=20 K. Silem Mohammad is the author Breathalyzer (Edge Books=2C 2008)=2C A Thou= sand Devils (Combo Books=2C 2004)=2C and Deer Head Nation (Tougher Disguise= s=2C 2003). Abraham Lincoln=2C which he edits with Anne Boyer=2C is the sin= gle most significant poetry magazine in North America that always features = a large cat and a rainbow on its front cover. Lytle Shaw=92s most recent bo= oks include The Chadwick Family Papers (a collaboration with Jimbo Blachly= =2C Periscope=2C 2009) and Frank O'Hara: The Poetics of Coterie (University= Of Iowa Press=2C 2006). =20 MARCH 28 JAMES SHERRY and CECILIA VICU=D1A=20 James Sherry is the author of more than 10 books of poetry and prose. His m= ost recent publication=2C Sorry: Environmental Poetics=2C is forthcoming fr= om Factory School later this year. He is the editor/publisher of Roof Books= and founder of The Segue Foundation. Cecilia Vicu=F1a performs and exhibit= s her work widely in Europe=2C Latin America and the U.S. Templo e=92Saliva= / Spit Temple=2C a collection of her oral performances=2C edited by Rosa A= lcal=E1=2C is forthcoming by Factory School Press. =20 APRIL =20 APRIL 4 RON SILLIMAN and LISA JARNOT=20 Ron Silliman has written and edited over 30 books to date. Silliman was the= 2006 Poet Laureate of the Blogosphere=2C a 2003 Literary Fellow of the Nat= ional Endowment for the Arts and was a 2002 Fellow of the Pennsylvania Arts= Council as well as a Pew Fellow in the Arts in 1998. He lives in Chester C= ounty=2C Pennsylvania=2C with his wife and two sons. Lisa Jarnot is the aut= hor of four collections of poetry=2C including the recently published Night= Scenes from Flood Editions. She lives in Queens and works as a landscape g= ardener. =20 APRIL 11 JENA OSMAN and TAN LIN=20 Jena Osman=92s books include An Essay in Asterisks (Roof) and The Character= (Beacon). Her book The Network is forthcoming from Essay Press. She co-edi= ts the ChainLinks book series with Juliana Spahr and teaches in the graduat= e Creative Writing program at Temple University. Tan Lin is a writer=2C art= ist=2C and critic. He has written Lotion Bullwhip Giraffe (Sun & Moon) and = BlipSoak01 (Atelos). His visual and video work has been exhibited at the Ya= le Art Museum (New Haven)=2C the Sophienholm (Copenhagen)=2C and the Marian= ne Boesky Gallery (NYC). =20 APRIL 18 CHARLES ALEXANDER and AKILAH OLIVER=20 Charles Alexander is a Tucson-based poet=2C publisher=2C and book artist. H= e is the director and editor-in-chief of Chax Press. Alexander=92s recent b= ooks of poetry include Pushing Water: parts one through six (Standing Stone= s Press=2C 1998)=2C near or random acts (Singing Horse Press=2C 2004)=2C an= d Certain Slants (Junction Press=2C 2007). Akilah Oliver is the author of a= new book A Toast in the House of Friends (Coffee House Press=2C 2008)=2C a= nd also the she said dialogues: flesh memory (Smokeproof/Erudite Fangs=2C 1= 999). She currently makes her home in Brooklyn=2C NY. =20 APRIL 25 POETRY AND ARCHITECTURE featuring VITO ACCONCI=20 An event featuring poets and architects presenting work that explores poten= tial overlaps and collaborations between the two media. More information to= come. =20 MAY =20 MAY 2 JULIAN BROLASKI and MAGDALENA ZURASWSKI=20 Julian T. Brolaski co-curated the the New Brutalism series in Oakland from = 2003-2005 with Cynthia Sailers and the Holloway Poetry Series at UC Berkele= y from 2004-2006. Brolaski is the author of several chapbooks including The= Daily Usonian (Atticus/Finch 2004)=2C Madame Bovary=92s Diary (Cy Press 20= 05)=2C and Buck in a Corridor (flynpyntas 2008). Magdalena Zurawski was bor= n in 1972 to Polish immigrants in New Jersey. Her first book=2C The Bruise= =2C won the Ronald Sukenick Prize in2006=2C and was published by FC2 in 200= 8. =20 MAY 9 ERICA KAUFMAN and JOAN RETALLACK=20 erica kaufman is the author of several chapbooks including Civilization Day= and several installations of Censory Impulse=2C her book-length poem=2C wh= ich was published by Factory School/Heretical Texts in January. She co-cura= tes and co-edits Belladonna/Belladonna Books and lives in Brooklyn. Joan Re= tallack=92s most recent publication is her Gertrude Stein: Selections with = an extensive introduction/discussion of Stein=92s work=2C brought out by Un= iversity of California Press. She is the author of seven volumes of poetry = including Errata 5uite=2C which won the Columbia Book Award chosen by Rober= t Creeley. A collection of Retallack=92s procedural poems is forthcoming fr= om Roof Books. =20 MAY 16 NO READING =20 MAY 23 MEI-MEI BERSSENBRUGGE and JONATHAN SKINNER=20 Mei-mei Berssenbrugge was born in Beijing and grew up in Massachusetts. She= is the author of numerous volumes of poetry=2C most recently I Love Artist= s: New and Selected Poems (University of California Press=2C 2006) and Conc= ordance (Kelsey St. Press=2C 2006)=2C a collaboration with Kiki Smith. Jona= than Skinner is a poet=2C translator and critic=2C as well as editor of the= journal ecopoetics. Skinner completed his Ph.D. in English at SUNY Buffalo= . In 2005=2C he published his first full-length poetry collection=2C Politi= cal Cactus Poems (Palm Press). =20 MAY 30 STACY SZYMASZEK and PATRICK DURGIN=20 Stacy Szymaszek is the author of Emptied of All Ships (Litmus Press=2C 2005= ). Recent chapbooks include Orizaba: A Voyage with Hart Crane (Faux Chaps= =2C 2008) and from Hyperglossia (Hot Whiskey=2C 2008). Hyperglossia=2C the = complete poem=2C is forthcoming from Litmus Press in early 2009. Patrick Du= rgin has collaborated with Jen Hofer since 1998 to produce The Route (Atelo= s=2C 2008). On his own=2C Durgin has published Imitation Poems (Atticus/Fin= ch=2C 2007) and Color Music (Cuneiform Press=2C 2002). =20 THE SEGUE FOUNDATION 300 Bowery New York=2C NY 10012 =20 _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live=99: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_012009= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 08:55:53 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: [SPAM]Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20090113165340.073344e0@earthlink.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit well, you're ok with it but are they ok with it? I mean, doesn't it hurt them? whether it's legal or not? On 1/13/09 5:05 PM, "Mark Weiss" wrote: > To extrapolate: > > Since as it becomes easier to get laid for free the stuff a > prostitute has to do to make a living gets weirder everybody should > keep their legs crossed. > > Did I get it right? > > I'm ok with folks doing what they want to make a living, even if they > only do it because they feel bad about themselves, and people buying > their services, even if they only do it because they feel bad about > themselves. Unless we legislate mental health (and assume that the > motivations are always unhealthy) it's the best we're likely to do. > > Coercion of any kind is another matter. Legalization makes it a lot > easier to fight coercion (and incidentally to minimize the spread of disease). > > I'd say the same for drug use, even though most people probably > shouldn't put a spike in their arm. > > Mark > > At 12:39 AM 1/13/2009, you wrote: > >> >> I've been following the discussion only sporadically, so please >> forgive any redundancy, but, the well-known "Effects of Prolonged >> Consumption of Pornography" and other studies suggest that in places >> where pornography is legal and increasingly popular there is a >> corresponding decrease in the incidence of violent sexual >> crimes. As if the medium could allow for the safe channeling of >> certain repressed and thereby sinister desires. However, many >> observers attribute said decreased incidence to a greater leniency >> in attitudes towards sexual behavior and an inability, or >> unwillingness, to interpret sex crimes as such. In this regard, >> where pornography is widely consumed, we might note the evolution of >> more exotic and aggressive forms of it (think anus, gangbang, shit >> in the mouth). >> >> Though pornography and prostitution aren't the same thing, perhaps >> the same principle holds true. The more the thing is permitted, the >> more boring it gets, and so, the more deviant and illicit and >> forbidden its form must take. Or in other terms, hunger (out of >> boredom) ensures the creation (and delivery) of new products. The >> more we're ok with prostitution, the more we're ok with whatever >> treatment the prostitute receives, and the more novel treatments >> we'll surely find. Let the free market rule. After all they're >> just a muscle. >> >> Jared Schickling >> > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 16:32:46 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Hilary Clark Subject: Re: coMpetition does In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thanks for this posting. Spot on. H. Clark CA Conrad wrote: >Recently I've met a couple of young poets (yet again) who dropped out >of poetry writing workshops because they were, in the words of one of >these poets, "eaten alive." > >The conversation isn't new. And it's not a conversation about >workshops in particular, but competition in a bigger sense. > >When is competition good, meaning productive, meaning THE THING which >spurs poets into action in the best sense, in the sense of WANTING to >write as well as they can. > >And when is competition ugly, filled with envy and jealousy, reaching >a surprising number of times in my observations to the most corrupt, >wicked, disturbing places people can get to. > >The conversation is tricky because I'm always trying to ask, >investigate with others, WHERE IS THE line between competition when >it's healthy, and rotten? > >There's no doubt in my mind that these two young poets (the latest two >that is, as I've been having this conversation for years now and I >don't even remember how many times I've had it frankly) love, really >LOVE poetry. We share that, we find when talking that we share that >DRIVE, depositing ourselves in front of bookstore poetry sections, and >libraries, and asking everyone we know who their favorite poets are, >and titles, and never getting enough of this love. Never getting >enough of it. And not just feeling sad when a bookstore like GOTHAM >BOOKMART closes down but ANGRY! > >We're so much alike, and we tell one another what we're most excited >about NOW, and everyone's scratching notes for the library and >bookstore. How we're NOT alike is that these two young poets are VERY >vulnerable to attack. When they were said to be "eaten alive" I'm not >surprised. And I'm sad, and wish they were MORE LIKE ME and laugh at >the bastards and say, "OH YOU'RE JUST A HATER, YOU JEALOUS PIG!" Or, >"Yeah well, THANKS, being attacked GETS ME UP IN THE MORNING TO MAKE >YOU ANGRY!" It feeds me when someone attacks me, I LOVE it. > >But of course a lot of people don't respond well when they're >attacked, and this makes me sad. I've known poets WHOSE POEMS MADE ME >HAPPY who stopped writing poems because of such attacks. In some >cases the attacks were from their professors, and the other students, >egged-on by the professors. A FEEDING FRENZY in such a way that makes >me want to puke for poetry. It disgusts me this kind of behavior. > >I'm not a professor, but I have conducted poetry workshops, and it's >NOT HARD AT ALL in my opinion to keep the focus about everyone >(including myself because I want to learn from THEM TOO!) >investigating poetry together! My focus is about PROCESS, about the >many weird ways to MAKE poetry happen, NOT ABOUT who is writing poems >I think are good, or another person in the workshop thinks are good, >or not. > >This is NOT goody-two-shoe bullshit, I'm JUST NOT INTERESTED in >telling someone whether I like their poems or not when I'm conducting >workshops. And it's none of my business frankly. But to LOVE poetry, >and read it, and create it, and have it in our lives, now THAT is >something I get very excited about! > >But what is that line? When is it crossed from productive and >beautiful and everyone's excited and MAKING poetry, to that place of >shit? > >I'd rather see poems ABOUT that dark spot on the poetry map, than see >it overwhelm another poet. And I mean overwhelm the poet who NEEDS to >be vicious, and of course I mean the poet who gets beaten down. > >This conversation cannot happen unless we talk about the bigger things >around it, like, WHY IS EVERYONE NOT UNDERSTANDING EVERYONE IS >CREATIVE WE ARE ALL CREATIVE THIS IS NOT UP FOR DEBATE. Or is it? >I've had people tell me this is wrong, that everyone's NOT creative. >But I disagree. > >And the conversation needs to be about how the way poets act about >scarcity and fear that there's not enough NOT ENOUGH magazines NOT >ENOUGH awards or enough room at the reading series, not enough, is >really, such an old story about us being animals. > >And the conversation needs to be about how to protect ourselves if we >can't withstand the attacks. > >And the conversation needs to be about how people don't need to attack >others because THERE IS ENOUGH. > >And the conversation needs to be about how art and all our creative >abilities have become part of a big system in the capital of art and >poetry, and books, and writing programs and teaching and, and, and >CONSUMPTION, and frankly how, more than ever there's more reasons than >ever for us to feel like we're NOT working hard enough, NOT being good >enough, NOT good enough, so many reasons to feel like shit. > >It's a big conversation. But I feel I'm always having it. And it's >one of the most important ones to have some days, especially when I >meet young poets who have just been destroyed in workshops, made to >feel worthless. The one poet started crying, and said, literally >between sobs, "ALL I WANT TO DO IS WRITE POETRY!" It's really awful, >I just want to hit whoever did this to this person, but of course >that's not helpful. > >The line crossed is hard to see because it's different for everyone, I >think. Right? Sometimes I'm not sure I'm right about that, but it >feels right, doesn't just feel like an answer I've come up with to >forget thinking about it, because I really want to figure it out, if >it can be figured out. There's too much at stake, at least it feels >that way when I meet YET ANOTHER amazing young poet who becomes afraid >of workshops and other poets and stops writing. > >I've met so many amazing poets who stop, for so many reasons they >stop. The most common reason though is that they get worn out from >the struggle of dealing with many hungry egos. And their own hungry >ego. It goes back to the discussion about why we're writing, and what >has writing become in this world for us? > >CAConrad > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 08:41:12 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: SEGUE WINTER-SPRING 2009 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit wow this series looks so HOTTT!!! Gary Sullivan wrote: > SEGUE READING SERIES @ BOWERY POETRY CLUB > Winter / Spring 2009 > > Saturdays: 4:00 p.m. - 6:00 p.m. 308 BOWERY, just north of Houston $6 admission goes to support the readers > > The Segue Reading Series is made possible by the support of The Segue Foundation. For more information, please visit seguefoundation.com, bowerypoetry.com, or call (212) 614-0505. Curators: February-March by Nada Gordon & Gary Sullivan, April-May by Kristen Gallagher & Tim Peterson. > > FEBRUARY > > FEBRUARY 7 KENNETH GOLDSMITH and EDWIN TORRES > Kenneth Goldsmith is the author of ten books of poetry and founding editor of UbuWeb (ubu.com). He is the host of a weekly radio show on New York City’s WFMU and teaches writing at The University of Pennsylvania. A book of critical essays, Uncreative Writing, is forthcoming from Columbia University Press. Edwin Torres is a NYC born lingualisualist currently on hiatus from the apple, living upstate. A NYFA recipient and 2006/7 Lower Manhattan Cultural Council Writer-in-Residence, he’s been widely published and taught his Brainlingo workshop at numerous venues & universities. His books include, The PoPedology Of An Ambient Language (Atelos Books), The All-Union Day Of The Shock Worker (Roof Books), Onomalingua: noise songs and poems (Rattapallax e-book), and Please (Faux Press CD-Rom). > > FEBRUARY 14 STEVE BENSON and STEPHANIE YOUNG > Steve Benson, formerly of the San Francisco Bay area, has lived in Downeast Maine since 1996. Transcripts of orally improvised performances appear in Blindspots (Whale Cloth, 1981), Reverse Order (Potes and Poets, 1989), Blue Book (The Figures/Roof, 1998) and Open Clothes (Atelos, 2005), along with written works. With nine other bay area language poets, he is preparing part 8 of The Grand Piano: An Experiment in Collective Autobiography (Mode A, 2006-present). Stephanie Young lives and works in Oakland. Her books of poetry are Picture Palace (in girum imus nocte et consumimur igni, 2008) and Telling the Future Off (Tougher Disguises, 2005). She edited Bay Poetics (Faux Press, 2006) and her most recent editorial project is Deep Oakland, deepoakland.org. She blogs so rarely at stephanieyoung.org/blog. > > FEBRUARY 21 MELANIE NIELSON and SARA WINTZ > Melanie Nielson was born in Humboldt, Tennessee, grew up in Southern California, and lives in New York City. She edited Big Allis magazine for many years with Jessica Grim, and is the author of Civil Noir (Roof Books, 1991). Sara Wintz’s writing has appeared in Ecopoetics, Cricket Online Review, Interrobang?!, and on Ceptuetics. She co-directs, with Cristiana Baik, :the press gang:, publisher of Intricate Systems, by Juliana Spahr and One Might, by Karen Volkman. She lives in Brooklyn and works at P.S.1 Contemporary Art Center. > > FEBRUARY 28 JOHN GIORNO and BRIAN KIM STEFANS > John Giorno is the author of many books of poetry, which have been translated into several languages. Subduing Demons in America: The Selected Poems of John Giorno, 1962-2008, a career-spanning survey of his work, will be published by Counterpoint/Soft Skull in 2008. Brian Kim Stefans’ most recent books are What is Said to the Poet Concerning Flowers (Factory School, 2006), Kluge: A Mediation, and other works (Roof, 2007) and Before Starting Over: Selected Writings and Interviews (Salt, 2006). He just moved to Los Angeles to take a position as professor of English and Digital Humanities at UCLA. > > MARCH MARCH 7 JEROME SALA and RACHEL ZOLF > Jerome Sala has been described as an “honorable hysteric” by critic Peter Schjeldahl. His latest book is Look Slimmer Instantly from Soft Skull Press. Other books include cult classics such as Spaz Attack, I Am Not a Juvenile Delinquent and The Trip. Rachel Zolf’s collections include Human Resources (Coach House, 2007), which won the 2008 Trillium Book Award for Poetry, Shoot and Weep (Nomados, 2008), and Masque (Mercury, 2004). > > MARCH 14 CHARLES BERNSTEIN and ADEENA KARASICK > Charles Bernstein is the CFO of the Center for Avant-Garde Comedy and Stand-Up Poetry. His most recent book is Blind Witness: Three American Operas. Adeena Karasick is the 2008 winner of the MPS mobile award, poet media artist and author of six books of poetry and poetic theory. Forthcoming is Amuse Bouche Tasty Treats for the Mouth (Talonbooks, 2009). She teaches Film and Literature at CUNY. > > MARCH 21 K. SILEM MOHAMMAD and LYTLE SHAW > K. Silem Mohammad is the author Breathalyzer (Edge Books, 2008), A Thousand Devils (Combo Books, 2004), and Deer Head Nation (Tougher Disguises, 2003). Abraham Lincoln, which he edits with Anne Boyer, is the single most significant poetry magazine in North America that always features a large cat and a rainbow on its front cover. Lytle Shaw’s most recent books include The Chadwick Family Papers (a collaboration with Jimbo Blachly, Periscope, 2009) and Frank O'Hara: The Poetics of Coterie (University Of Iowa Press, 2006). > > MARCH 28 JAMES SHERRY and CECILIA VICUÑA > James Sherry is the author of more than 10 books of poetry and prose. His most recent publication, Sorry: Environmental Poetics, is forthcoming from Factory School later this year. He is the editor/publisher of Roof Books and founder of The Segue Foundation. Cecilia Vicuña performs and exhibits her work widely in Europe, Latin America and the U.S. Templo e’Saliva / Spit Temple, a collection of her oral performances, edited by Rosa Alcalá, is forthcoming by Factory School Press. > > APRIL > > APRIL 4 RON SILLIMAN and LISA JARNOT > Ron Silliman has written and edited over 30 books to date. Silliman was the 2006 Poet Laureate of the Blogosphere, a 2003 Literary Fellow of the National Endowment for the Arts and was a 2002 Fellow of the Pennsylvania Arts Council as well as a Pew Fellow in the Arts in 1998. He lives in Chester County, Pennsylvania, with his wife and two sons. Lisa Jarnot is the author of four collections of poetry, including the recently published Night Scenes from Flood Editions. She lives in Queens and works as a landscape gardener. > > APRIL 11 JENA OSMAN and TAN LIN > Jena Osman’s books include An Essay in Asterisks (Roof) and The Character (Beacon). Her book The Network is forthcoming from Essay Press. She co-edits the ChainLinks book series with Juliana Spahr and teaches in the graduate Creative Writing program at Temple University. Tan Lin is a writer, artist, and critic. He has written Lotion Bullwhip Giraffe (Sun & Moon) and BlipSoak01 (Atelos). His visual and video work has been exhibited at the Yale Art Museum (New Haven), the Sophienholm (Copenhagen), and the Marianne Boesky Gallery (NYC). > > APRIL 18 CHARLES ALEXANDER and AKILAH OLIVER > Charles Alexander is a Tucson-based poet, publisher, and book artist. He is the director and editor-in-chief of Chax Press. Alexander’s recent books of poetry include Pushing Water: parts one through six (Standing Stones Press, 1998), near or random acts (Singing Horse Press, 2004), and Certain Slants (Junction Press, 2007). Akilah Oliver is the author of a new book A Toast in the House of Friends (Coffee House Press, 2008), and also the she said dialogues: flesh memory (Smokeproof/Erudite Fangs, 1999). She currently makes her home in Brooklyn, NY. > > APRIL 25 POETRY AND ARCHITECTURE featuring VITO ACCONCI > An event featuring poets and architects presenting work that explores potential overlaps and collaborations between the two media. More information to come. > > MAY > > MAY 2 JULIAN BROLASKI and MAGDALENA ZURASWSKI > Julian T. Brolaski co-curated the the New Brutalism series in Oakland from 2003-2005 with Cynthia Sailers and the Holloway Poetry Series at UC Berkeley from 2004-2006. Brolaski is the author of several chapbooks including The Daily Usonian (Atticus/Finch 2004), Madame Bovary’s Diary (Cy Press 2005), and Buck in a Corridor (flynpyntas 2008). Magdalena Zurawski was born in 1972 to Polish immigrants in New Jersey. Her first book, The Bruise, won the Ronald Sukenick Prize in2006, and was published by FC2 in 2008. > > MAY 9 ERICA KAUFMAN and JOAN RETALLACK > erica kaufman is the author of several chapbooks including Civilization Day and several installations of Censory Impulse, her book-length poem, which was published by Factory School/Heretical Texts in January. She co-curates and co-edits Belladonna/Belladonna Books and lives in Brooklyn. Joan Retallack’s most recent publication is her Gertrude Stein: Selections with an extensive introduction/discussion of Stein’s work, brought out by University of California Press. She is the author of seven volumes of poetry including Errata 5uite, which won the Columbia Book Award chosen by Robert Creeley. A collection of Retallack’s procedural poems is forthcoming from Roof Books. > > MAY 16 NO READING > > MAY 23 MEI-MEI BERSSENBRUGGE and JONATHAN SKINNER > Mei-mei Berssenbrugge was born in Beijing and grew up in Massachusetts. She is the author of numerous volumes of poetry, most recently I Love Artists: New and Selected Poems (University of California Press, 2006) and Concordance (Kelsey St. Press, 2006), a collaboration with Kiki Smith. Jonathan Skinner is a poet, translator and critic, as well as editor of the journal ecopoetics. Skinner completed his Ph.D. in English at SUNY Buffalo. In 2005, he published his first full-length poetry collection, Political Cactus Poems (Palm Press). > > MAY 30 STACY SZYMASZEK and PATRICK DURGIN > Stacy Szymaszek is the author of Emptied of All Ships (Litmus Press, 2005). Recent chapbooks include Orizaba: A Voyage with Hart Crane (Faux Chaps, 2008) and from Hyperglossia (Hot Whiskey, 2008). Hyperglossia, the complete poem, is forthcoming from Litmus Press in early 2009. Patrick Durgin has collaborated with Jen Hofer since 1998 to produce The Route (Atelos, 2008). On his own, Durgin has published Imitation Poems (Atticus/Finch, 2007) and Color Music (Cuneiform Press, 2002). > > THE SEGUE FOUNDATION > 300 Bowery > New York, NY 10012 > > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. > http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_012009 > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 08:43:33 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: blog article about The Accidental Artist In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit totally gorgeous. azure's voice and those vibrant jewel-like images in motion, wow! Alan Sondheim wrote: > (sent to me by Opensource Obscure, and thanks - Alan) > > http://www.secondlifeupdate.com/virtual-world-experiences/top-5-works-of-art-in-second-life-pics-video-the-accidental-artist/ > > or http://bit.ly/Ne0N > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 09:54:39 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: [SPAM]Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Aren't you talking about motivation? If there were no coercion, would it be ok for people to choose to do things that might hurt them? What other potentially self-destructive things should we make illegal? Demolition derbies? Surfing? Skateboarding? Smoking? Drinking? MFA programs? Or if we limit the list to sexual behavior, which is apparently a separate category? one night stands? Sleeping with musicians? A list would be helpful. Mark At 08:55 AM 1/14/2009, you wrote: >well, you're ok with it but are they ok with it? I mean, doesn't it hurt >them? whether it's legal or not? > > >On 1/13/09 5:05 PM, "Mark Weiss" wrote: > > > To extrapolate: > > > > Since as it becomes easier to get laid for free the stuff a > > prostitute has to do to make a living gets weirder everybody should > > keep their legs crossed. > > > > Did I get it right? > > > > I'm ok with folks doing what they want to make a living, even if they > > only do it because they feel bad about themselves, and people buying > > their services, even if they only do it because they feel bad about > > themselves. Unless we legislate mental health (and assume that the > > motivations are always unhealthy) it's the best we're likely to do. > > > > Coercion of any kind is another matter. Legalization makes it a lot > > easier to fight coercion (and incidentally to minimize the spread > of disease). > > > > I'd say the same for drug use, even though most people probably > > shouldn't put a spike in their arm. > > > > Mark > > > > At 12:39 AM 1/13/2009, you wrote: > > > >> > >> I've been following the discussion only sporadically, so please > >> forgive any redundancy, but, the well-known "Effects of Prolonged > >> Consumption of Pornography" and other studies suggest that in places > >> where pornography is legal and increasingly popular there is a > >> corresponding decrease in the incidence of violent sexual > >> crimes. As if the medium could allow for the safe channeling of > >> certain repressed and thereby sinister desires. However, many > >> observers attribute said decreased incidence to a greater leniency > >> in attitudes towards sexual behavior and an inability, or > >> unwillingness, to interpret sex crimes as such. In this regard, > >> where pornography is widely consumed, we might note the evolution of > >> more exotic and aggressive forms of it (think anus, gangbang, shit > >> in the mouth). > >> > >> Though pornography and prostitution aren't the same thing, perhaps > >> the same principle holds true. The more the thing is permitted, the > >> more boring it gets, and so, the more deviant and illicit and > >> forbidden its form must take. Or in other terms, hunger (out of > >> boredom) ensures the creation (and delivery) of new products. The > >> more we're ok with prostitution, the more we're ok with whatever > >> treatment the prostitute receives, and the more novel treatments > >> we'll surely find. Let the free market rule. After all they're > >> just a muscle. > >> > >> Jared Schickling > >> > > > > ================================== > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & > > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > >================================== >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 09:54:45 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Steve Tills Subject: Subject: Re: Can "nature" poetry be postmodern/post-structural? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Additional inquiry might include these questions: =20 Can post-modern/post-structural "poetry" handle Nature? =20 Isn't postmodern and post-structural, for better AND for worse, a subset of nature, including our species' frequently incommensurate and dysfunctional and human-centric, usually unverifiable and generally SELF-serving definitions of it? =20 Should pomers truly concerned with developing interesting, fun, serious, irreverent, heady, simple, useful, and smiling nature poetries prescribe for themselves the onus of having to appeal to so-called postmodern/post-structural exigencies, which are, after all, largely or at least ALSO cottage industry consumer products developed by the academia industries, NOT necessarily OBJECTS of real, concrete, substantial relevance to "nature" OR "poetry" in the first place, the second place, or the 3rd? =20 Also, seriously, cannot postmodern/post-structural play an honorable role in saving nature, without which we're not going to have ANY poetry, jobs in academia, or EPC forums, ultimately? =20 =20 Blah blah... =20 =20 Steve Tills=20 Civilization is the encouragement of differences.=20 -Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi (1869-1948) P Please consider the environment before printing this email - be green, keep it on the screen =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 07:17:51 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mary Kasimor Subject: Re: Bailout MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I wonder if we put too high a price on women's sexuality--I was of the gene= ration that came of age during the late 60's, and we women were so damn gla= d to throw away our parents' prudishness about what "good girls do." I am s= ure that men were overjoyed, and as I write that I wonder why I suddenly fe= el=A0"prickly" (I didn't mean that to be a play on words.) =A0about men als= o feeling liberated. I suppose our views on sexuality are such a part of ou= r culture that it is hard to separate culture from nature. Our intellects a= nd talents are also part of the free market. Tthe other problem is that wom= en are still seeing their world through men's perspectives--not always, but= often. I think that is obvious. =A0 Mary =A0 --- On Wed, 1/14/09, mIEKAL aND wrote: From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Bailout To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Wednesday, January 14, 2009, 7:40 AM (this piggybacks nicely on the brothel dissection...) Grad Student Selling Virginity Flooded With Offers http://cbs13.com/local/selling.virginity.tuition.2.815171.html A Sacramento State grad trying to make money by auctioning off her virginit= y to help pay for her graduate studies is getting lots of offers...and not = just for sex. The 22-year-old who is using the pseudonym Natalie Dylan for safety reasons= is going through a legal brothel in Nevada to sell her virginity. Dylan to= ld CBS13 she's gotten an offer of $250,000.=A0 And now she's gotten an offe= r to do a photo spread for Penthouse magazine. The auction is being handled by the Bunny Ranch in Carson City, Nevada with= bids coming in through their website. Dylan says she's already taken a polygraph test to prove her virginal statu= s, and is also willing to undergo a medical exam. "The main purpose of this is to finance a couple things in my life," Dylan = told CBS13.=A0 "I think empowerment of women is picking yourself up and doi= ng something on your own to better yourself." So far, hundreds of offers have already come in including some from male vi= rgins.=A0 Natalie says she won't give up her virginity to the highest bidde= r.=A0 She's also seeking other qualities from her first lover. "I'm looking= for intelligence and an overall nice person," said Dylan. Dylan says she ended up in a financial bind, because her stepfather alleged= ly used her college status to fraudulently apply for student loans, and the= n ran off with the money. Dylan earned her bachelor's degree in women's studies from Sacramento State= and plans to get her master's at the school beginning in January. Many Sac State students say they're shocked to hear about their former clas= smate's plan, while others applaud her. "She's just giving it to some random person. And I just think she should be= giving it to someone special she loves," said one student on campus. While another felt that selling her virginity for grad school "is a noble r= eason to get money." As for Natalie, after claiming to hold on to her virginity for 22 years (al= though the Bunny Ranch website claims she is 21-years-old), she says she ha= s a commodity not many people have to sell. "When I was younger, I wanted 100% romance, possibly even wait for marriage= .=A0 But as I grew up, reality kinda hit.=A0 And I think its a capitalistic= society and I want to capitalize on this," explained Dylan. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines= & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 09:48:42 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=E9amas_Cain?= Subject: Papers of the poet Thomas Kinsella MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline _______________ The Papers of the Irish poet Thomas Kinsella have gone to the MARBL Library at Emory University in Atlanta, Georgia, U.S. For a detailed inventory of the Papers of Thomas Kinsella, go to http://irishliterature.library.emory.edu/content.php?id=3Dkinsella774_10109= 13 Amazingly, the MARBL Library at Emory also holds the Papers of the Irish poets Seamus Heaney, Ciaran Carson, Peter Fallon/The Gallery Press Collection, Ted Hughes, Michael Longley, Derek Mahon, Medbh McGuckian, Charles Montieth, Paul Muldoon, Edna O'Brien, Desmond O'Grady, Frank Ormsby, Tom Paulin, and James Simmons as well as other more or less contemporary Irish poets. Most of these manuscript collections have been purchased by Emory. For an index of Irish literary collections, mostly at the MARBL Library of Emory University, go to http://irishliterature.library.emory.edu/browse.php Amazing! that the National Library of Ireland would not have acted more decisively to keep these manuscript collections (of literary and historic importance) in Ireland! Or, is it not so amazing after all? given the back-of-the-hand treatment to most Irish authors in the past and present. For information about the Irish Literary Collections Portal, go to http://irishliterature.library.emory.edu/ In 1985, in Duluth, Minnesota, I was privileged to introduce Thomas Kinsella at his reading before an audience of 400 people. I enjoyed several days of lengthy conversations with Kinsella. I learned quite a lot from him about the varieties of innovative and not-so-innovative approaches to contemporary poetry. Indeed, it is NOT Seamus Heaney but Thomas Kinsella that I see as the grand old man of contemporary Irish poetry! At that time, on his visit in 1985, Kinsella was very interested to learn of Lady Augusta Gregory's reaction to the city of Duluth. In February of 1914, Lady Gregory came to Duluth to participate in the founding of the Little Theatre, a breakaway from the commercial theatre of that day. (Bernard Shaw was also involved in the founding of this Little Theatre.) As Lady Gregory arrived on the scene, the harbor and the western end of Lake Superior were filled with ice. And further east on the great lake, in motion, there were huge ice floes. Lady Gregory said she had never before seen "icebergs"! Throughout her time in Duluth, she kept talking about the "icebergs," and the "beauty" of the "icebergs"! Regards, from the icebergs of Lake Superior, S=E9amas Cain http://alazanto.org/seamascain http://seamascain.writernetwork.com http://www.mnartists.org/Seamas_Cain _______________ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 10:52:45 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: Can "nature" poetry be postmodern/post-structural? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Many thanks to all who have sent suggestions on/off list. Remembered a few of my own favorites: Lyn Lifshin and Geraldine Green. I was appalled with Richard Louv's opinion about the lack of nature found in modern "urban" poetry and needed some affirmation :) Mary Jo Malo -- http://thisshiningwound.blogspot.com/ http://apophisdeconstructingabsurdity.blogspot.com/ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 13:07:42 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Bailout In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit yes, ultimate capitalism, as it has been for so long--women as a main commodity. On 1/14/09 8:40 AM, "mIEKAL aND" wrote: > (this piggybacks nicely on the brothel dissection...) > > > Grad Student Selling Virginity Flooded With Offers > > http://cbs13.com/local/selling.virginity.tuition.2.815171.html > > A Sacramento State grad trying to make money by auctioning off her > virginity to help pay for her graduate studies is getting lots of > offers...and not just for sex. > > The 22-year-old who is using the pseudonym Natalie Dylan for safety > reasons is going through a legal brothel in Nevada to sell her > virginity. Dylan told CBS13 she's gotten an offer of $250,000. And > now she's gotten an offer to do a photo spread for Penthouse magazine. > > The auction is being handled by the Bunny Ranch in Carson City, Nevada > with bids coming in through their website. > > Dylan says she's already taken a polygraph test to prove her virginal > status, and is also willing to undergo a medical exam. > > "The main purpose of this is to finance a couple things in my life," > Dylan told CBS13. "I think empowerment of women is picking yourself > up and doing something on your own to better yourself." > > So far, hundreds of offers have already come in including some from > male virgins. Natalie says she won't give up her virginity to the > highest bidder. She's also seeking other qualities from her first > lover. "I'm looking for intelligence and an overall nice person," said > Dylan. > > Dylan says she ended up in a financial bind, because her stepfather > allegedly used her college status to fraudulently apply for student > loans, and then ran off with the money. > > Dylan earned her bachelor's degree in women's studies from Sacramento > State and plans to get her master's at the school beginning in January. > > Many Sac State students say they're shocked to hear about their former > classmate's plan, while others applaud her. > > "She's just giving it to some random person. And I just think she > should be giving it to someone special she loves," said one student on > campus. > > While another felt that selling her virginity for grad school "is a > noble reason to get money." > > As for Natalie, after claiming to hold on to her virginity for 22 > years (although the Bunny Ranch website claims she is 21-years-old), > she says she has a commodity not many people have to sell. > > "When I was younger, I wanted 100% romance, possibly even wait for > marriage. But as I grew up, reality kinda hit. And I think its a > capitalistic society and I want to capitalize on this," explained Dylan. > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 10:56:30 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Troy Camplin Subject: Re: [SPAM]Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In the end, who are you or I or anybody else to tell someone what they can and cannot do, to prevent people from hurting themselves (especially if it's our opinion that they are hurting themselves)? It seems pretty arrogant to tell adults what they can and cannot do with their own bodies and minds. We can quibble all day about whether or not prostitutes under legalized conditions are "hurt" by the job or not, but in the end, we don't know what a person likes or does not lie, is hurt by or is not hurt by, prefers or does not prefer precisely because we cannot be inside their heads, knowing any of those things. Faced with such overwhelming ignorance of such things about others, we should let people do what they want to do and be who they want to be so long as it doesn't involve force or threat of force. THis isn't to say that one should not be out there trying to create conditions where women don't have to choose prostitution, that one shouldn't be trying to change minds -- but it is to say that one should not be using either force or the threat of force to make people do what you want or make them accept what you think is best for them. Troy Camplin ________________________________ From: Ruth Lepson To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 7:55:53 AM Subject: Re: [SPAM]Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory well, you're ok with it but are they ok with it? I mean, doesn't it hurt them? whether it's legal or not? On 1/13/09 5:05 PM, "Mark Weiss" wrote: > To extrapolate: > > Since as it becomes easier to get laid for free the stuff a > prostitute has to do to make a living gets weirder everybody should > keep their legs crossed. > > Did I get it right? > > I'm ok with folks doing what they want to make a living, even if they > only do it because they feel bad about themselves, and people buying > their services, even if they only do it because they feel bad about > themselves. Unless we legislate mental health (and assume that the > motivations are always unhealthy) it's the best we're likely to do. > > Coercion of any kind is another matter. Legalization makes it a lot > easier to fight coercion (and incidentally to minimize the spread of disease). > > I'd say the same for drug use, even though most people probably > shouldn't put a spike in their arm. > > Mark > > At 12:39 AM 1/13/2009, you wrote: > >> >> I've been following the discussion only sporadically, so please >> forgive any redundancy, but, the well-known "Effects of Prolonged >> Consumption of Pornography" and other studies suggest that in places >> where pornography is legal and increasingly popular there is a >> corresponding decrease in the incidence of violent sexual >> crimes. As if the medium could allow for the safe channeling of >> certain repressed and thereby sinister desires. However, many >> observers attribute said decreased incidence to a greater leniency >> in attitudes towards sexual behavior and an inability, or >> unwillingness, to interpret sex crimes as such. In this regard, >> where pornography is widely consumed, we might note the evolution of >> more exotic and aggressive forms of it (think anus, gangbang, shit >> in the mouth). >> >> Though pornography and prostitution aren't the same thing, perhaps >> the same principle holds true. The more the thing is permitted, the >> more boring it gets, and so, the more deviant and illicit and >> forbidden its form must take. Or in other terms, hunger (out of >> boredom) ensures the creation (and delivery) of new products. The >> more we're ok with prostitution, the more we're ok with whatever >> treatment the prostitute receives, and the more novel treatments >> we'll surely find. Let the free market rule. After all they're >> just a muscle. >> >> Jared Schickling >> > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 11:04:47 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Troy Camplin Subject: Re: coMpetition does MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Being eaten alive in a workshop isn't a bad thing. If you can't stand criticism of your work, you won't improve much as an artist. This isn't to say that everything in a workshop is golden (it isn't), but you come out with many perspectives and, if you know what you're really hearing, you can figure out what's really wrong that needs work among the comments and criticisms. But CA is right, you do have to be careful to distinguish between those who wish to help you, and those who are envious and want to tear you down, to "get rid of the competition." Again, if you're paying attention, it does become pretty obvious before long. Be on the lookout for those who come up to you later and apologize for "being so rough" and/or who offer more suggestions or offer to look at it again after the revision. Those are the ones who want to help you. They will also more likely be the good poets. Nasty, antisocial, selfish people do not have the wisdom necessary to be great poets. Or even good or mediocre poets. Troy Camplin ________________________________ From: steve d. dalachinsky To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 12:25:39 AM Subject: Re: coMpetition does here here CA i fully understand being one who has always avoided workshops and it probably shows On Tue, 13 Jan 2009 12:28:19 -0500 CA Conrad writes: > Recently I've met a couple of young poets (yet again) who dropped > out > of poetry writing workshops because they were, in the words of one > of > these poets, "eaten alive." > > The conversation isn't new. And it's not a conversation about > workshops in particular, but competition in a bigger sense. > > When is competition good, meaning productive, meaning THE THING > which > spurs poets into action in the best sense, in the sense of WANTING > to > write as well as they can. > > And when is competition ugly, filled with envy and jealousy, > reaching > a surprising number of times in my observations to the most > corrupt, > wicked, disturbing places people can get to. > > The conversation is tricky because I'm always trying to ask, > investigate with others, WHERE IS THE line between competition when > it's healthy, and rotten? > > There's no doubt in my mind that these two young poets (the latest > two > that is, as I've been having this conversation for years now and I > don't even remember how many times I've had it frankly) love, > really > LOVE poetry. We share that, we find when talking that we share > that > DRIVE, depositing ourselves in front of bookstore poetry sections, > and > libraries, and asking everyone we know who their favorite poets > are, > and titles, and never getting enough of this love. Never getting > enough of it. And not just feeling sad when a bookstore like > GOTHAM > BOOKMART closes down but ANGRY! > > We're so much alike, and we tell one another what we're most > excited > about NOW, and everyone's scratching notes for the library and > bookstore. How we're NOT alike is that these two young poets are > VERY > vulnerable to attack. When they were said to be "eaten alive" I'm > not > surprised. And I'm sad, and wish they were MORE LIKE ME and laugh > at > the bastards and say, "OH YOU'RE JUST A HATER, YOU JEALOUS PIG!" > Or, > "Yeah well, THANKS, being attacked GETS ME UP IN THE MORNING TO > MAKE > YOU ANGRY!" It feeds me when someone attacks me, I LOVE it. > > But of course a lot of people don't respond well when they're > attacked, and this makes me sad. I've known poets WHOSE POEMS MADE > ME > HAPPY who stopped writing poems because of such attacks. In some > cases the attacks were from their professors, and the other > students, > egged-on by the professors. A FEEDING FRENZY in such a way that > makes > me want to puke for poetry. It disgusts me this kind of behavior. > > I'm not a professor, but I have conducted poetry workshops, and > it's > NOT HARD AT ALL in my opinion to keep the focus about everyone > (including myself because I want to learn from THEM TOO!) > investigating poetry together! My focus is about PROCESS, about > the > many weird ways to MAKE poetry happen, NOT ABOUT who is writing > poems > I think are good, or another person in the workshop thinks are > good, > or not. > > This is NOT goody-two-shoe bullshit, I'm JUST NOT INTERESTED in > telling someone whether I like their poems or not when I'm > conducting > workshops. And it's none of my business frankly. But to LOVE > poetry, > and read it, and create it, and have it in our lives, now THAT is > something I get very excited about! > > But what is that line? When is it crossed from productive and > beautiful and everyone's excited and MAKING poetry, to that place > of > shit? > > I'd rather see poems ABOUT that dark spot on the poetry map, than > see > it overwhelm another poet. And I mean overwhelm the poet who NEEDS > to > be vicious, and of course I mean the poet who gets beaten down. > > This conversation cannot happen unless we talk about the bigger > things > around it, like, WHY IS EVERYONE NOT UNDERSTANDING EVERYONE IS > CREATIVE WE ARE ALL CREATIVE THIS IS NOT UP FOR DEBATE. Or is it? > I've had people tell me this is wrong, that everyone's NOT > creative. > But I disagree. > > And the conversation needs to be about how the way poets act about > scarcity and fear that there's not enough NOT ENOUGH magazines NOT > ENOUGH awards or enough room at the reading series, not enough, is > really, such an old story about us being animals. > > And the conversation needs to be about how to protect ourselves if > we > can't withstand the attacks. > > And the conversation needs to be about how people don't need to > attack > others because THERE IS ENOUGH. > > And the conversation needs to be about how art and all our creative > abilities have become part of a big system in the capital of art > and > poetry, and books, and writing programs and teaching and, and, and > CONSUMPTION, and frankly how, more than ever there's more reasons > than > ever for us to feel like we're NOT working hard enough, NOT being > good > enough, NOT good enough, so many reasons to feel like shit. > > It's a big conversation. But I feel I'm always having it. And > it's > one of the most important ones to have some days, especially when I > meet young poets who have just been destroyed in workshops, made to > feel worthless. The one poet started crying, and said, literally > between sobs, "ALL I WANT TO DO IS WRITE POETRY!" It's really > awful, > I just want to hit whoever did this to this person, but of course > that's not helpful. > > The line crossed is hard to see because it's different for everyone, > I > think. Right? Sometimes I'm not sure I'm right about that, but it > feels right, doesn't just feel like an answer I've come up with to > forget thinking about it, because I really want to figure it out, > if > it can be figured out. There's too much at stake, at least it > feels > that way when I meet YET ANOTHER amazing young poet who becomes > afraid > of workshops and other poets and stops writing. > > I've met so many amazing poets who stop, for so many reasons they > stop. The most common reason though is that they get worn out from > the struggle of dealing with many hungry egos. And their own > hungry > ego. It goes back to the discussion about why we're writing, and > what > has writing become in this world for us? > > CAConrad > -- > PhillySound: new poetry http://PhillySound.blogspot.com > > THE BOOK OF FRANK by CAConrad http://CAConrad.blogspot.com > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 13:21:08 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Troy Camplin Subject: Re: Bailout MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I agree that there is a problem with women all too often seeing the world through men's perspectives. One of the flaws of the feminist movement in the U.S. was the acceptance of male virtues as the only virtues, meaning women should emulate men -- and that emulation was not just in the economy, but in sexuality as well. The truth is that there are manly/masculine virtues as well as womanly/feminine virtues (as well as human virtues) that are not better or worse than the other, but merely different and, typically, complementary. It benefits everyone, especially couples, when the two are in balance. I also have a suspicion that in the greatest artists, the two are balanced within the individual him-/herself. Troy Camplin ________________________________ From: Mary Kasimor To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 9:17:51 AM Subject: Re: Bailout I wonder if we put too high a price on women's sexuality--I was of the generation that came of age during the late 60's, and we women were so damn glad to throw away our parents' prudishness about what "good girls do." I am sure that men were overjoyed, and as I write that I wonder why I suddenly feel "prickly" (I didn't mean that to be a play on words.) about men also feeling liberated. I suppose our views on sexuality are such a part of our culture that it is hard to separate culture from nature. Our intellects and talents are also part of the free market. Tthe other problem is that women are still seeing their world through men's perspectives--not always, but often. I think that is obvious. Mary --- On Wed, 1/14/09, mIEKAL aND wrote: From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Bailout To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Wednesday, January 14, 2009, 7:40 AM (this piggybacks nicely on the brothel dissection...) Grad Student Selling Virginity Flooded With Offers http://cbs13.com/local/selling.virginity.tuition.2.815171.html A Sacramento State grad trying to make money by auctioning off her virginity to help pay for her graduate studies is getting lots of offers...and not just for sex. The 22-year-old who is using the pseudonym Natalie Dylan for safety reasons is going through a legal brothel in Nevada to sell her virginity. Dylan told CBS13 she's gotten an offer of $250,000. And now she's gotten an offer to do a photo spread for Penthouse magazine. The auction is being handled by the Bunny Ranch in Carson City, Nevada with bids coming in through their website. Dylan says she's already taken a polygraph test to prove her virginal status, and is also willing to undergo a medical exam. "The main purpose of this is to finance a couple things in my life," Dylan told CBS13. "I think empowerment of women is picking yourself up and doing something on your own to better yourself." So far, hundreds of offers have already come in including some from male virgins. Natalie says she won't give up her virginity to the highest bidder. She's also seeking other qualities from her first lover. "I'm looking for intelligence and an overall nice person," said Dylan. Dylan says she ended up in a financial bind, because her stepfather allegedly used her college status to fraudulently apply for student loans, and then ran off with the money. Dylan earned her bachelor's degree in women's studies from Sacramento State and plans to get her master's at the school beginning in January. Many Sac State students say they're shocked to hear about their former classmate's plan, while others applaud her. "She's just giving it to some random person. And I just think she should be giving it to someone special she loves," said one student on campus. While another felt that selling her virginity for grad school "is a noble reason to get money." As for Natalie, after claiming to hold on to her virginity for 22 years (although the Bunny Ranch website claims she is 21-years-old), she says she has a commodity not many people have to sell. "When I was younger, I wanted 100% romance, possibly even wait for marriage. But as I grew up, reality kinda hit. And I think its a capitalistic society and I want to capitalize on this," explained Dylan. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 15:28:33 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue=2C 13 Jan 2009 05:41:22 -0800 From: david.chirot@gmail.com To: davidbchirot@hotmail.com Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory Actually I think that the Poetry Brothel may just be about what lengths peo= ple will go to "attract an audience"--and a paying one at that!--for their = poems. Isn't this like a "Reality Show" version of "Writer's/Poet's Market" in a w= ay? Or those "Mystery Dinners" where you get to participate in a melodramatic m= ystery story and eat fine food all at once? And maybe someone really will = die! From all the rich fare=2C instead of only simulating a heart attack to= surprise the unwitting into revealing themselves as dupes of expensive ill= usions. And won't some disgruntled client leave muttering darkly how they've just b= een screwed by some really lame poetry cleverly concealed by artfully posed= cleavage or the seductive flip of a gigolo's hair in the fake breezes waft= ed by hidden fans whose whirrings are lost amidst the banging of the bangle= s on the long beaded strings operating as "harem decor" doors? "It's like Weimar without the Nazis=2C" one of the jolly entrepreneurs purr= s=2C blithely oblivious to the fascism eating away at the fabric of America= n society for a long time now.=20 If one considers the brothel from the point of view of poetry=2C isn't it = just as it advertises itself to be: --a much more "entertaining" and "enti= cing" way of pimping one's works=2C because=2C after all =2C is that not wh= at the "market place of ideas" and the hustling and foreclosing on "intelle= ctual properties" is all about? Isn't it all like the Bert Brecht poem Fritz Lang starts to quote to the s= ell-out self-prostituting writer played by Michel Piccoli in Godard's Le Me= pris (Contempt)?--A poem to the effect that the poet is going down to the m= arket (Hollywood) to sell his poetic wares=2C just as Socrates taught down= by the market place=2C pimping his "intellectual properties" to the beaut= iful young men as long as possible=2C postponing to the last possible sec= ond the return not to Ithaca and Penelope=2C but to the mighty shrew Xant= hippe=2C the Founding Dominatrix of Philosophy's Sado-Masochistic tendencie= s In essaying to follow this thread through its labyrinth=2C it strikes me th= at despite the outrage at the objectification of women=2C prostitutes thems= elves remain locked in language of objectification to such an extent here t= hat one wonders if they are altogether abstract beings=2C or categories=2C = sub classifications-- rather than actual persons.=20 The neighborhood I live in is rife with prostitution. I'd say about 75% of = the women over around 18 one speaks with at the bus stop or walking home at= night or during any time of the day are prostitutes. The moment one goes = out the door=2C they are waiting somewhere along the short block=2C close b= y=2C or hanging out at the bus stop=2C greeting potential customers as they= step out onto the worn down Ghetto sidewalk=2C right by where the old cov= ered waiting station used to be before being removed. That structure one = day was gone=2C leaving only a concrete slab like a scab shoved into the si= de of a scraggly lawn being fixed up. The shelter had to go due to the vast= teeming population of human traffickers=2C panhandlers=2C drunks=2C crack= heads and hos who would sit there smoking on the bench sheltered from the w= eather or spend hours motionlessly propped against the grimy graffiti sl= ashed glass on its crumpling frame=2C whispering in the voice that goes st= raight to the nervous system=2C with no need of an ear--"you straight?" Since last mid-summer the new police chief has declared our area=2C known f= orever as "Crack Alley=2C" to be his first order of business to clean up. I= t's not the most violent area in the city=2C but one of the most concentrat= ed in terms of dope and prostitution. A lot of buildings next door all a= long our block are closed down and being cleaned up=2C as they were filled = with crack hos and dope dealers=2C and a continual stream of events such as= at the several days running big TV story on the news about a kidnapped bab= y from next door an incident like any other=2C squeezed in among some colo= rful shootings and knifing incidents=2C not to mention the day a man with a= n AK-47 used our building and the parking lot next to it for target practic= e=2C blowing off chunks of the roof and managing to get some mega bullets t= hrough air vents and hitting a resident here in the leg. The second the dud= e opened fire=2C one knew it was some different kind of weapon=2C and dove = for the floor as bullets chipped off almost the entire the window ledge=2C = bit hungrily away at the bricks just below it=2C before a quick spurt of so= und sent a huge piece of the roof floating dreamily down past the window= =2C like a very relaxed whale diving deep deep down in the otherwise plea= sant evening. Al one knew was that what seemed like eons later there was a = huge thud and the walls shook as the big piece of mortared concrete hit the= ground. Al this has gradually been tamed down and now fewer prostitutes hawk their = wares along the sidewalks and at the bus stops=2C though the ones still her= e are the most persistent and bold ones. They can easily handle a cop with= a patter so fast that it seems not to end=2C but simply to have generated = a continuously playing loop of its own echoed messages--while Sistah beats = her wings and takes flight=2C soaring over rooftops and vanishing into a va= cant lot somewhere blocks away. Hey shugah-- lets have us party . . .c'mon= now--ain't gonna bite it off-- One time a woman whom I had seen and talked= to a number of times=2C came up in a raging blizzard and begged me to go a= round the building to the back steps and "suck you like heaven." She was so= desperate she was down on her knees in the snow bank. It was below zero = and almost no visibility--and she had on just a thin skirt and jacket--she = had an "auntie" near by so got her there and gave her enough for a few rock= s=2C one of the few times ii had money on me in awhile-- There are women out who are homeless and who knows where they go--some= can't get into the shelters due to the dope--their families won't let them= in for fear of being robbed--sometimes the police pick them up and put the= m in the jail so they wont die--Very few of the crack hos work for anyone b= ut themselves--too erratic to work for a pimp--they are so desperate at tim= es people will slip them a few bills-- Around three in the morning most nights--the Zombies emerge--drifting along= as though only the air they lean against is holding them upright--moving s= low and stumblingly like the Living Dead of George Romero's films. Some of= these eerie figures begin emitting high keening sounds=2C extremely painfu= l to hear--the voices of desperation cutting the air into shreds--people su= ddenly crumpling on the grass patches or falling down in a side walk gutter= --In such bad shape they can't sell a thing to anyone-- It's excruciating to see and hear some nights those figures with the eerie = phosphorescent death glows=2C auras of the grave and white powders and rock= s--to look at these death bound ghosts and see oneself stumbling in the nig= ht---through dim jerky memories of another being one once was---somewhere = in a war zone--miraculously surviving seizures and comas=2C blackouts=2C th= e disappearance for a time of any sense of life--a black inert presence has= one seemingly wedged between life and death--one can't move--yes--there go= es one now--a person suddenly transfixed before going through a spastic imi= tation of a Crucifixion of themselves--seizures--thrashings-- As the economy goes down the toilet=2C so do the places for help start to v= anish=2C become ever fewer--and some hospitals actually will turn away peop= le they think will never pay --no insurance=2C nothing-- The whole health care system is eugenics against the poor and "unneeded"-- How many dope fiends=2C how many prostitutes=2C runaways=2C impressed into = service young women--wind up anonymously dead=2C the notations along the wa= y of the repetitions of a serial killer--and then another one and another--= how many dead women have you seen?--no ID and lying in the road late at nig= ht--flashlight lit as some cops try to make sense of a murder scene so biza= rre the details cannot be released to the press? Or other scenes that one c= annot get out of the mind--as well as ones one has only heard about--let al= one lived through-- And yet none of these women were anonymous beings--many of them many people= knew--remembered--loved--brought up--many around here one speaks with many= times a week-- This is why much of this discussion to me is like an objectification of the= very beings that the protests about objectification are being made in the = name of. =20 My first memories of prostitutes was being offered a job in a fancy whoreh= ouse that catered to an American clientele of the old school--Texas oil men= =2C business men on the loose in Gay Paree--the woman who hired me was a so= rt of second in command Madame--i don't recall how i met here--but she need= ed a translator for a week while the regular one was on a vacation--so i sp= ent day or night shifts translating back and forth=2C making introduction i= n the swank Western Saloon style room where introductions were exchanged an= d various other matters sorted out--I was 16 at the time and sleeping in st= reets and abandoned houses and cars=2C so some extra money and free meals w= as a great boost in the world for me--trhe Madame said=2C well=2C young man= you can pass for 20--that's old enough-- The workers in the brothel were not allowed to go out with each other--as t= here were other men who worked there=2C cooking=2C cleaning=2C doing dishes= and laundry--and doubling as bouncers and security guards if there was eve= r any problems at all-- The women were al in a union and once month the government inspectors came = to check everyone for diseases=2C and make sure the place was as clean as p= ossible=2C and the behaviour of everyone was in line. The idea being that l= egalized and unionized prostitution gives rights and protection to the pros= titutes they otherwise do not have at all=2C as here in the land of the fre= e.=20 When there was a time for our breaks=2C whoever was around would get togeth= er and go to a cafe or sit in the kitchen and drink bocks and coffee. Lots = gossiping and card playing and showing about of pictures of children=2C fia= ncees=2C husbands=2C boy friends. Then back to work. Since then I've known a lot of prostitutes as friends or neighbors and ther= e is always different yet somewhat a same story involved. =20 People say "prostitute" like it is someone filthy and low--but look at the = high class cal girls so called=2C who get politicians in trouble=2C or for = that matter the movie stars who charge huge amounts for the fotos of their = babies or their bikini clad frolics with some ex-lover. And how much did the American public pay for the election--a billion dollar= s!!--How many people did the President sell himself to to get to the Oval O= ffice-- How much of one's soul did one sell out for a step up the career ladder--or= poem in a journal--or a name on the door like a Bigelow on the floor-- How much of life is not a form of prostitution=2C--though perhaps without t= he dangers and horrors the street level and sex slave trades=2C which buy u= p children for the uses of perverts with immense bankrolls-- or just tourists passing through on the way to see Junior's basketball game= -- There is far more prostitution at every level than one would imagine=2C unt= il one has seen how many things work=2C with the paying of cash for appeara= nces=2Chiring someone to take along--and then-- And though people are angered --who is working to change things? In one of= the five sections of Roberto Bolano's novel 2666--there are the relentless= ly presented murders after murders with rapes and tortures recounted that h= appened the area just over the American border--al these are young girls wh= o work also in the factories--not prostitutes at all--but suddenly swooped = on and turned into a ritualized thing--a doll=2C an object to be taken apar= t and then covered back up=2C with the neat clean clothes paced over the cu= t and violated body-- Imagine the Black Dahlia multiplied bya thousand--and al based on true hapn= ings -- These murderers of anonymous and known and named women--are like the serial= killer and anonymously butchered bodies found al over the USA--and al the = battered women=2C the addicted women=2C the homeless the insane-- Years of sitting and talking=2Changing out--and learning of these lives--is= how one sees this not just as "objectification" in the sense of "the male = gaze" but of society's gaze--which doesn't see a person=2C but only reads t= he label--"prostitute"-- So that objectification carries even into the critics of objectification=2C= for they themselves are not seeing a person=2C but only a label=2C a categ= ory-- Or=2C at the Poetry Brothel=2C a Camp performance of something out of Cabar= et-- What can one say other than that this is a disposable society and culture?-= - The inner cities are pumped full of crack by the CIA to destroy communit= ies=2C enslave people to addiction=2C destroy generations of men and women= =2C break up families--one looks around and sees the holocaust unfolding d= aily-- and no one will do anything about it--there's way too much money involved= =2C way too much to be milked out of Colombia and Afghanistan for the Ameri= can ends of these hook ups-- Pumping Grade A US Certified killer heroin into the suburbs--the most kick= ass and deadly heroin ever known to be in this country--killing scores of= users young and old--(very rarely do old users overdose--and now they are = by untold numbers--dropping like flies) The unending Wars=2C straight out of Orwell's 1984--War on Poverty--War on = Drugs--War on Terror-- Think of the trillions that have been pumped into he War Machine--into the = genocide of Iraq--and the "Right War" President Obama has in mind for Afgha= nistan and parts of Pakistan--not to mention the immense funding that this= country spends on Apartheid=2C while feeling so proud for electing a Black= president--we support the most vicious Apartheid regime there has been-- What does that kind of hypocrisy tel one? =20 Right there its say it all--neither we nor our allies believe one whit in d= emocracy and equality--what we embrace mightily and pump billions and trill= ions into is the establishment for eternity of Exceptionalism and Racial su= premacy-- This is why i think that the "objectification" halts at the word itself and= does not go further--into those unpredictable areas where "prostitutes" ar= e no longer objects but actual persons-- At an American Indian group the other night people were saying with grief = and shock and rage how horrified they were by the killing in Gaza--because = for decades its a repeat of the land theft cultural destruction and genocid= e of the Indigenous peoples in America=2C now paid for and supplied by the = mega mega tons overseas. One man said--that's us they're killing all over again--why else does the U= S allow this to go on other than that they obviously must approve of it--ki= lling and segregation=2C prison camps- hells on earth--the Trail of Tears--= the Apartheid Walls --Sieges--and the same old double talk to make it be co= vered up=3D--to make it all look nice and pretty and hide the blood and muc= k away in a way isn't that what the Poetry Brothel is al about--making the actual = "selling of poems" and "poets performances" far more "attractive" and "exci= ting"--"stimulating"-- than the usual boring read before a boring backdrop in a boring room --=20 now instead of the dullness and no stimulation=2C no matter what the poems = are like--who cares anyway!--a good time and eats and drinks will be had by= all-- as they say in the restaurant business=2C its not what they eat that matter= s but how good you make it look for them --that really whets the appetite and seals the deal-- think of how many art and poetry movements after al started in cabarets an= d clubs=2C bars--cellars--Dada--Punk--the scenes from Fellini's Satyricon w= hich he called a science fiction film set int he past of "futurist" Latin poets reciting=2C or that is=2C having their paid recit= ers recite--their verses and deadly clever epigrams which just be made into= actual deaths in a new and novel and very clever fashion-- mush like the shaping of verses in an exquisitely honed new form=2C so are = the creative variations and inventions which the poet executioner brings ab= out=2C realized in aa action event performance from=20 a Score of ingenious and fractal dice throwing chance operations-- which never abolish chance-- played upon the actual "backbone Flute" of Mayakovsky whose Russian Futuris= m has likewise landed in the past--ready and willing to compete with Marine= tti's in the arenas-- of blood dust and glory-- -- think though that sooner or later the next steps will be taken and the poe= try and the brothel will be raised to ever higher scales and skills and so = the REAL money can start to roll in! meaning--no more amateurs!--and then the Real Pros will start to roll in-- buy the poet and have he or she give not only the poem but themselves to yo= u!! and then autograph you!! or a nice foto of the two of you in flagrante delecto!! why do it for free anyway-- how tedious and unexciting! it can be like the Visconti short film in which Romy Schneider discovers he= r husband is only really attracted to her when she makes him pay-- isn't that why we like our wars so much=2C because we have to pay and pay a= nd pay for drugs and wars and poverty being spread far and wide by the massive spe= nding on wars-- aren't these the ultimate Brothels--the porno of watching helpless peoples = be bombed and starved tortured cut off from medications and food water and = electricity in the winter cold--and phosphorous and cluster bombed to death= by the hundreds and thousands-- isn't this what we really paid for-- the ultimate Snuff Films set in the vast desolation-- the annihilation of a people -- "until not one stone shall be left on another" and what is next on the menu=2C what can possibly top this-- the "Right War?"--the torching of every single moving being in Afghanistan-= -of parts of Pakistan=20 and then on to Iran--at last!!-- and since no media is allowed to record anything as it happens what great fun al national poets can have in suturing together the reams of= Army footage and propaganda to produce the ultimate epic-- the Brothel to end al Brothels----where the Snuff films play to the tinklin= g of subdued piano music and someone is reading a very radical and innovati= ve poem and after the audience has been softened up so to speak-- as is conjectured in the Bolano story from the heinous realities-- income the kidnapped and drugged runaways the over the hill hookers--the to= o addicted to function anymore--or simply the cutest little teenage girls = and/or boys you have ever seen-- and right there in front of one=2C no longer a film-- but the Reality Show of Death--LIVE!!! now ladies and gentlemen isn't that what we are really paying for-- admission to the ultimate Show!! looking out the window here one can see it --the ultimate show--the death r= attles and violent seizures-- the grip of crack on a ho's neck and her windpipe shutting down -- let's see what kind of verses can be made to accompany those sounds-- overdubbed or done LIVE and right here and now before a video camera and mic why not-- to watch oneself watch the death of another-- and then film that in turn until an endless hall of mirrors is made--of ima= ges of oneself watching another's death--murder-mutilation and violation---= - the ultimate brothel poetry show-- as one's voice in the voice over is reciting the latest innovative style of= radical poetry-- and-- a complete circuitry of onanism is accomplished--and recorded for the payin= g audience=2C the hottest thing going in the brothel charnal house of poetr= y in the land of a thousand dances of death-- the deaths individual and lonely and those public and many-- the gleaming drones and fighter jets their ways lit by illegal use of phosp= horous illuminating the bursting into flames and blood of a family=2C an ol= d woman-- walls blown asunder to reveal--nothing-- nothing had been there al along except--the skin of a long departed onion pale and translucent in the light of the spreading infernos-- as bodies already burned through by phosphorous are ignited by the chemical= mixtures happening at lightning speed and transforming the veins into writ= ing green vines that choke and tear the skeletons apart and leave their grinning teeth lying their deaths heads in the last views of a rape and snuff scene that is superimpos= ed and then faded out-- as the bodies burn and skeletons disintegrate and the ground itself is heav= ing=2C ion convulsions-- and then erupts and like Atlantis what is left of this place of the damned = and doomed sinks forever out of sight extinguished caught live on camera snuffed out-- forever-- though to be sure many captive females have bee hsutled off=2C saved to spe= nd their lives serving in the brothels and live death cinemas-- of the new order-- the ultimate "Ending"-- why not--as it has all been bought and paid for and might just be the most incredible new form of poems-- the real Apocalypse-- snuffing out a culture while poets recite and sexual acts are performed ending in the Death of th= e--not the Author--but-- that non person hauled into be slaughtered while everyone is aroused-- this is the ultimate destination hinted at and part way accomplished in Bol= ano's Distant Star (Polaroids instead of moving pictures--) and realized in= real life in Chile and turned into paragraphs in By Night in Chile-- and eerily starting to become realized in new ways still unfolding-- in the emergence of the new extreme experimental American poetry-- and there sitting before one the Manet images-of prostitutes -turning in to= scenes from Goya-- . . . . . . Hardly ever any more does one look out a window on one side = of the building and see sexual transactions going on between the wall and t= he dumpsters. Or in the back of the building=2C in a an area the stairway= that's now too lit up for the old action to continue. Sex is very cheap--a= couple bucks=2C five=2C ten--enough to get the next couple rocks of crack = or a four pack of malt liquor. A lot of the time people are high and just w= ant to talk with you and have a cigarette and feel like they are carrying o= n a "normal conversation." And why not--just about everyone now and then wo= uld like to feel if even for the course of smoking a cigarette like a "nor= mal person." On Mon=2C Jan 12=2C 2009 at 7:14 PM=2C susan dunn-hensley wrote: Ruth- =20 For what it's worth=2C Ruth. I think you raised some valid points. =20 Susan --- On Mon=2C 1/12/09=2C Ruth Lepson wrote: From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Monday=2C January 12=2C 2009=2C 3:31 PM there is a sweetheart--Tim Peterson. thank you=2C esp as I'm too busy to continue this discussion. love ruth wish we COULD. On 1/12/09 8:27 AM=2C "Tim Peterson" wrote: > Adam! Ruth! Two of my dearest friends...it makes me feel terrible to see you > guys fighting like this! The Poetry Brothel is not worth getting this upset > about. Let's all kick back in my living room with a mug of coco and listen > to Gloria Steinheim records backwards. How about this evening? > > Love=2C Tim > > Date: Sat=2C 10 Jan 2009 23:49:49 -0500 > From: Ruth Lepson > Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory > > twisting my words! > so writing about objections to prostitution does nothing=2C huh--so words > don't matter? > I think all those jobs are degrading. > I wd like to defend yr friends by getting them better jobs. > I am not criticizing these women. > Better working conditions wd be not having to succumb to male ideas of > sexuality in our culture=2C such narrow constraints. > > > > On 1/9/09 5:49 PM=2C "Adam Tobin" wrote: > >> but you were the one crying shame! on the women of the Poetry Brothel! for >> dressing like whores! >> >> (please note that I am NOT arguing that prostitution is not a sexist >> institution. clearly it is. and i agree that it is part of a complex of >> normative heterosexuality that does terrible violence to all women. But > as >> for the actual women who are living in actual slavery=2C i think complaining >> about the symbolic degrading of womankind does nothing for them: it's like >> trying to improve the safety of coal mines by complaining about climate >> change. >> >> And if you're just using those women (who are very real=2C and many of them >> living in absolutely horrific situations=2C as you rightly pointed out) as >> symbols of Degraded Womankind=2C you are doing a disservice to them and also >> to the many many women (some of whom must be subscribers to this list) who >> work in other parts of the sex trade -- exotic dancers=2C high-end > call-girls=2C >> dominatrices=2C nude housekeepers=2C pornographic models=2C hooters waitresses=2C >> etc. -- some of these people are my friends and i take it personally -- > and >> I think that their own struggles for better working conditions are not >> unrelated to the struggle against slavery in other parts of their bosses' >> businesses... >> >> -- but i'm sorry that i overreacted and became part of a litany of men > (all >> men! really! can it really be that there are no women here who work in > the >> sex trade??) who are all seemingly trying to justify the institution as an >> institution. I am not trying to justify it=2C just trying to defend my >> friends who work there from the harsh judgments of their elders... >> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines= & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live=99: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_012009= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 11:19:29 -0800 Reply-To: tsavagebar@yahoo.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: coMpetition does In-Reply-To: <20090114.012539.2348.9.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think most of what you say here is wonderful.=A0 Personal attacks are def= initely the line people should not cross in a poetry workshop.=A0 Construct= ive criticism is what poetry workshops are about and appreciation when some= thing is really good.=A0 I start each workshop I teach by telling the stude= nts that we are all equals.=A0 I may or may not know a bit more about poetr= y than they do but, as human beings, we are all equals and that they are al= lowed to disagree with anything I say if they do so.=A0 I think this helps = to neutralize not only the hierarchy of the class but also the odd sense of= "empowerment" some people feel who have studied at many workshops and thus= feel they have the right or the opportunity to make personal attacks.=A0 O= f course, if a young poet feels his work is so perfect, so sacrosanct that = no one should criticize it, then what is he or she doing in a workshop anyw= ay.=A0 But it sounds like this is another issue from what you are talking about here.=A0 Regards, Tom Savage --- On Wed, 1/14/09, steve d. dalachinsky wrote: From: steve d. dalachinsky Subject: Re: coMpetition does To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Wednesday, January 14, 2009, 1:25 AM here here CA i fully understand being one who has always avoided workshops and it probably shows =20 On Tue, 13 Jan 2009 12:28:19 -0500 CA Conrad writes: > Recently I've met a couple of young poets (yet again) who dropped=20 > out > of poetry writing workshops because they were, in the words of one=20 > of > these poets, "eaten alive." >=20 > The conversation isn't new. And it's not a conversation about > workshops in particular, but competition in a bigger sense. >=20 > When is competition good, meaning productive, meaning THE THING=20 > which > spurs poets into action in the best sense, in the sense of WANTING=20 > to > write as well as they can. >=20 > And when is competition ugly, filled with envy and jealousy,=20 > reaching > a surprising number of times in my observations to the most=20 > corrupt, > wicked, disturbing places people can get to. >=20 > The conversation is tricky because I'm always trying to ask, > investigate with others, WHERE IS THE line between competition when > it's healthy, and rotten? >=20 > There's no doubt in my mind that these two young poets (the latest=20 > two > that is, as I've been having this conversation for years now and I > don't even remember how many times I've had it frankly) love,=20 > really > LOVE poetry. We share that, we find when talking that we share=20 > that > DRIVE, depositing ourselves in front of bookstore poetry sections,=20 > and > libraries, and asking everyone we know who their favorite poets=20 > are, > and titles, and never getting enough of this love. Never getting > enough of it. And not just feeling sad when a bookstore like=20 > GOTHAM > BOOKMART closes down but ANGRY! >=20 > We're so much alike, and we tell one another what we're most=20 > excited > about NOW, and everyone's scratching notes for the library and > bookstore. How we're NOT alike is that these two young poets are=20 > VERY > vulnerable to attack. When they were said to be "eaten alive" I'm=20 > not > surprised. And I'm sad, and wish they were MORE LIKE ME and laugh=20 > at > the bastards and say, "OH YOU'RE JUST A HATER, YOU JEALOUS PIG!" =20 > Or, > "Yeah well, THANKS, being attacked GETS ME UP IN THE MORNING TO=20 > MAKE > YOU ANGRY!" It feeds me when someone attacks me, I LOVE it. >=20 > But of course a lot of people don't respond well when they're > attacked, and this makes me sad. I've known poets WHOSE POEMS MADE=20 > ME > HAPPY who stopped writing poems because of such attacks. In some > cases the attacks were from their professors, and the other=20 > students, > egged-on by the professors. A FEEDING FRENZY in such a way that=20 > makes > me want to puke for poetry. It disgusts me this kind of behavior. >=20 > I'm not a professor, but I have conducted poetry workshops, and=20 > it's > NOT HARD AT ALL in my opinion to keep the focus about everyone > (including myself because I want to learn from THEM TOO!) > investigating poetry together! My focus is about PROCESS, about=20 > the > many weird ways to MAKE poetry happen, NOT ABOUT who is writing=20 > poems > I think are good, or another person in the workshop thinks are=20 > good, > or not. >=20 > This is NOT goody-two-shoe bullshit, I'm JUST NOT INTERESTED in > telling someone whether I like their poems or not when I'm=20 > conducting > workshops. And it's none of my business frankly. But to LOVE=20 > poetry, > and read it, and create it, and have it in our lives, now THAT is > something I get very excited about! >=20 > But what is that line? When is it crossed from productive and > beautiful and everyone's excited and MAKING poetry, to that place=20 > of > shit? >=20 > I'd rather see poems ABOUT that dark spot on the poetry map, than=20 > see > it overwhelm another poet. And I mean overwhelm the poet who NEEDS=20 > to > be vicious, and of course I mean the poet who gets beaten down. >=20 > This conversation cannot happen unless we talk about the bigger=20 > things > around it, like, WHY IS EVERYONE NOT UNDERSTANDING EVERYONE IS > CREATIVE WE ARE ALL CREATIVE THIS IS NOT UP FOR DEBATE. Or is it? > I've had people tell me this is wrong, that everyone's NOT=20 > creative. > But I disagree. >=20 > And the conversation needs to be about how the way poets act about > scarcity and fear that there's not enough NOT ENOUGH magazines NOT > ENOUGH awards or enough room at the reading series, not enough, is > really, such an old story about us being animals. >=20 > And the conversation needs to be about how to protect ourselves if=20 > we > can't withstand the attacks. >=20 > And the conversation needs to be about how people don't need to=20 > attack > others because THERE IS ENOUGH. >=20 > And the conversation needs to be about how art and all our creative > abilities have become part of a big system in the capital of art=20 > and > poetry, and books, and writing programs and teaching and, and, and > CONSUMPTION, and frankly how, more than ever there's more reasons=20 > than > ever for us to feel like we're NOT working hard enough, NOT being=20 > good > enough, NOT good enough, so many reasons to feel like shit. >=20 > It's a big conversation. But I feel I'm always having it. And=20 > it's > one of the most important ones to have some days, especially when I > meet young poets who have just been destroyed in workshops, made to > feel worthless. The one poet started crying, and said, literally > between sobs, "ALL I WANT TO DO IS WRITE POETRY!" It's really=20 > awful, > I just want to hit whoever did this to this person, but of course > that's not helpful. >=20 > The line crossed is hard to see because it's different for everyone,=20 > I > think. Right? Sometimes I'm not sure I'm right about that, but it > feels right, doesn't just feel like an answer I've come up with to > forget thinking about it, because I really want to figure it out,=20 > if > it can be figured out. There's too much at stake, at least it=20 > feels > that way when I meet YET ANOTHER amazing young poet who becomes=20 > afraid > of workshops and other poets and stops writing. >=20 > I've met so many amazing poets who stop, for so many reasons they > stop. The most common reason though is that they get worn out from > the struggle of dealing with many hungry egos. And their own=20 > hungry > ego. It goes back to the discussion about why we're writing, and=20 > what > has writing become in this world for us? >=20 > CAConrad > --=20 > PhillySound: new poetry http://PhillySound.blogspot.com >=20 > THE BOOK OF FRANK by CAConrad http://CAConrad.blogspot.com >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check=20 > guidelines & sub/unsub info:=20 > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >=20 >=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 13:31:07 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Martha Cinader Mims Subject: L&BH Network Fresh Literary Content January 14, 2009 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; delsp=yes; format=flowed L&BH Network Fresh Literary Content January 14, 2009 L&BH Network Arts News Writers Wanted opportunities editor Friday, 07:28 PM Poets & Writers, Inc.=E2=80=99s Readings/Workshops program offers small =20= grants for literary events in California. Applications are due a =20 minimum of eight weeks in advance, so now is the perfect time to =20 apply for spring events. We are especially interested in funding =20 events taking place in Alpine, Colusa, Contra Costa, El Dorado, =20 Glenn, Kings, Mariposa, Merced, Mono, San [...] Read more=E2=80=A6 Teen Poetry Slam @ JFK yalifjfk Thursday, 04:12 PM Poetry Slam for Vallejo teens @ JFK. Read more=E2=80=A6 L&BH Network Mailing Lists [PCOPWC] Bay Area Poets Honoring the Legacy of Dr. Martin Luther King =20= and a New Era with President Elect Barack Obama Kim McMillon L&BH Poetry Cafe Blog BRIO TRIO dr. charles frederickson Today, 03:49 PM Obamagic wand conjuring presto chango Renewal of liberty fair-minded =20 justice Universal What the Health insurance A-OK =E2=80=93 serving All = Our =20 Kids Politricks of betrayed starry-eyed stripes Abracadaver =20 anti-war protests burying hatchet Axes of we-evil yielding to =20 Negotiated search for peaceful harmony Legerdemain sleight of =20= underhanded manipulation Bottom of stacked deck wheeler-=20 dealers Gee-=20 wizardry eco-greenback sawbucks in recession Burning [...] Read =20= more=E2=80=A6 that=E2=80=99s the way life be Rain Today, 03:38 PM everybody answers to somebody i answer to me i=E2=80=99m harder on = myself =20 than anybody else could be been in love ? yea, a time or two every =20 felt heart break ? yep, how bout you everyone stands alone in =20 life=E2=80=99s pourin rain everyone=E2=80=99s got their own umbrella = their own way =20 to hide from pain i=E2=80=99ve been on that shadowy highway lookin for =20= someplace to rest i=E2=80=99ve laughed when i felt like [...] Read = more=E2=80=A6 Oakland, CA - 02/27 - HUMANIST HALL - USA - REGINALD J. LOCKETT=E2=80=99S = =20 BACKYARD BOOGIE OF THE SPIRITS martha cinader mims Yesterday, 06:09 PM REGINALD J. LOCKETT=E2=80=99S BACKYARD BOOGIE OF THE SPIRITS When 02/27 =20= 7:00pm - All Ages Where HUMANIST HALL (map) 390 27th Street Oakland, =20 CA, USA 94612 Other InfoREGINALD J. LOCKETT=E2=80=99S BACKYARD BOOGIE OF = THE =20 SPIRITS A POETIC MUSICAL TRIBUTE FOR AN OAKTOWN TREASURE featuring =20 THE WORDWIND CHORUS (Q.R. Hand Jr, Brian Auerbach & Lewis Jordan) AL =20 YOUNG (former CA State Poet Laureate) ANTHONY J. SMITH & ELIZA =20 SHEFLER MARTHA CINADER & TONY MIMS AVOTCJA (Poet) & VAL SERRANT [...] =20= Read more=E2=80=A6 Petaluma, CA - 01/29 - Petaluma Arts Center - USA - Poetic Symmetry martha cinader mims Yesterday, 05:26 PM Poetic Symmetry When 01/29 8:00pm - All Ages Where Petaluma Arts =20 Center (map) 230 Lakeville Street Petaluma, CA, USA 94952 At the =20 corner of Lakeville and East D Streets. Other InfoMartha and Tony =20 Mims will be joined by Carltrent on percussion and Paul Neal on =20 upright bass, for two sets from 8-10 pm, at this new venue in =20 Petaluma. There is a $5 admission charge. =C2=AB Back [...] Read more=E2=80= =A6 A POSITIVE SPIRIT Dr. T. Ashok Chakravarthy Yesterday, 05:14 PM Yes, day by day, year after year While age peels layer after layer, =20 The seasons of life lose their glitter Fearful, the spirit of life =20 withers. The most treasured life=E2=80=99s seasons Slowly sail into = the =20 memories ocean, Childhood and youth remain a passion Enticing with =20 ever-new hopes, often. Frequent storms of pains and emotions Almost =20 ravage to the brink of extinction, Somehow we crawl out [...] Read =20 more=E2=80=A6 Nikki Purrs michael lee johnson Monday, 03:58 PM Soft nursing 5 solid minutes of purr paw peddling like a kayak =20 competitor against ripples of my 60 year old river rib cage=E2=88=92 I = feel =20 like a nursing mother but I=E2=80=99m male and I have no nipples. = Sometimes =20 I feel afloat. Nikki is a little black skunk, kitten, suckles me for =20 milk, or affection? But she is 8 years old a cat. I=E2=80=99m her = substitute =20 mother, afloat in a flower [...] Read more=E2=80=A6 NO HOLDS BARD 2009 RESOLUTIONS dr. charles frederickson Monday, 03:04 PM 20/20 VISION XVI. Phoenix ashes annulled in flames Firebirds =20 rekindling myths stoking embers Scarlet plumage tickling =20 storybook fancy Stragglers playing catch-up left =20 behind Igor Stravinsky=E2=80=99s Firebird Suite =20= fantasia Magical glow twofold blessings =20 curse Infernal dance bewitching princely captor Spell =20 broken immortality beyond reach Dr. Charles Frederickson =20 (www.poeartry-combo.com) & Saknarin Chinayote =20 (www.poeartrygallery.th.gs) Co-editors of AvantGardeTimes.com Read =20 more=E2=80=A6 Charley Plays a Tune michael lee johnson Friday, 06:42 PM Crippled with arthritis and Alzheimer=E2=80=99s, in a dark rented = room, =20 Charley plays melancholic melodies on a dust filled harmonica he =20 found abandoned on a playground of sand years ago by a handful of =20 children playing on monkey bars. He now goes to the bathroom on =20 occasion, relieving himself takes forever; he feeds the cat when he =20 doesn=E2=80=99t forget where the food is stashed at. He hears bedlam = when he =20 buys [...] Read more=E2=80=A6 20/20 Vision XVII dr. charles frederickson Friday, 03:49 PM Who invented Euclidean geometry anyway Pretzel logic twisted =20 into shape RR-Xing diminishing perspective tunnel =20 vision Parallel line horizons eventually =20 merge Ingenious designs persuading bent =20 curves To straighten into linear planes =20 Triangle mounts reconfigured upscale pyramids Squishy spheres =20 deflated helium balloons Dr. Charles Frederickson (www.poeartry-=20 combo.com) & Saknarin Chinayote (www.poeartrygallery.th.gs) Co-=20 editors of AvantGardeTimes.com Read more=E2=80=A6 Mother, Edith, at 98 michael lee johnson Thursday, 04:58 PM Edith, in this nursing home blinded with macular degeneration, I =20 come to you with your blurry eyes, crystal sharp mind, your =20 countenance of grace=E2=88=92 as yesterday=E2=80=99s winds I have chosen = to =20 consume you and take you away. =E2=80=9COh, where did Jesus disappear = to=E2=80=9D, =20 she murmured, over and over again, in a low voice dripping words like =20= a leaking faucet: =E2=80=9COh, there He is my Angel of the coming.=E2=80=9D= Read =20 more=E2=80=A6 Martha Cinader Mims Listen & Be Heard Network editor@listenandbeheard.net http://www.listenandbeheard.net Get Skype and call me for free. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 20:01:13 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: [SPAM]Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory In-Reply-To: <471090.77018.qm@web46201.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit who is telling them they can or can not do anything? On 1/14/09 1:56 PM, "Troy Camplin" wrote: > In the end, who are you or I or anybody else to tell someone what they can and > cannot do, to prevent people from hurting themselves (especially if it's our > opinion that they are hurting themselves)? It seems pretty arrogant to tell > adults what they can and cannot do with their own bodies and minds. We can > quibble all day about whether or not prostitutes under legalized conditions > are "hurt" by the job or not, but in the end, we don't know what a person > likes or does not lie, is hurt by or is not hurt by, prefers or does not > prefer precisely because we cannot be inside their heads, knowing any of those > things. Faced with such overwhelming ignorance of such things about others, we > should let people do what they want to do and be who they want to be so long > as it doesn't involve force or threat of force. THis isn't to say that one > should not be out there trying to create conditions where women don't have to > choose prostitution, that one shouldn't be trying > to change minds -- but it is to say that one should not be using either force > or the threat of force to make people do what you want or make them accept > what you think is best for them. > > Troy Camplin > > > > ________________________________ > From: Ruth Lepson > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 7:55:53 AM > Subject: Re: [SPAM]Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory > > well, you're ok with it but are they ok with it? I mean, doesn't it hurt > them? whether it's legal or not? > > > On 1/13/09 5:05 PM, "Mark Weiss" wrote: > >> To extrapolate: >> >> Since as it becomes easier to get laid for free the stuff a >> prostitute has to do to make a living gets weirder everybody should >> keep their legs crossed. >> >> Did I get it right? >> >> I'm ok with folks doing what they want to make a living, even if they >> only do it because they feel bad about themselves, and people buying >> their services, even if they only do it because they feel bad about >> themselves. Unless we legislate mental health (and assume that the >> motivations are always unhealthy) it's the best we're likely to do. >> >> Coercion of any kind is another matter. Legalization makes it a lot >> easier to fight coercion (and incidentally to minimize the spread of >> disease). >> >> I'd say the same for drug use, even though most people probably >> shouldn't put a spike in their arm. >> >> Mark >> >> At 12:39 AM 1/13/2009, you wrote: >> >>> >>> I've been following the discussion only sporadically, so please >>> forgive any redundancy, but, the well-known "Effects of Prolonged >>> Consumption of Pornography" and other studies suggest that in places >>> where pornography is legal and increasingly popular there is a >>> corresponding decrease in the incidence of violent sexual >>> crimes. As if the medium could allow for the safe channeling of >>> certain repressed and thereby sinister desires. However, many >>> observers attribute said decreased incidence to a greater leniency >>> in attitudes towards sexual behavior and an inability, or >>> unwillingness, to interpret sex crimes as such. In this regard, >>> where pornography is widely consumed, we might note the evolution of >>> more exotic and aggressive forms of it (think anus, gangbang, shit >>> in the mouth). >>> >>> Though pornography and prostitution aren't the same thing, perhaps >>> the same principle holds true. The more the thing is permitted, the >>> more boring it gets, and so, the more deviant and illicit and >>> forbidden its form must take. Or in other terms, hunger (out of >>> boredom) ensures the creation (and delivery) of new products. The >>> more we're ok with prostitution, the more we're ok with whatever >>> treatment the prostitute receives, and the more novel treatments >>> we'll surely find. Let the free market rule. After all they're >>> just a muscle. >>> >>> Jared Schickling >>> >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & >> sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 20:09:17 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: [SPAM]Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20090114094514.073c4090@earthlink.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit yes let's ban MFA programs and sleeping with poets.musicians are more fun. On 1/14/09 9:54 AM, "Mark Weiss" wrote: > Aren't you talking about motivation? If there were no coercion, would > it be ok for people to choose to do things that might hurt them? What > other potentially self-destructive things should we make illegal? > Demolition derbies? Surfing? Skateboarding? Smoking? Drinking? MFA > programs? Or if we limit the list to sexual behavior, which is > apparently a separate category? one night stands? Sleeping with > musicians? A list would be helpful. > > Mark > > At 08:55 AM 1/14/2009, you wrote: >> well, you're ok with it but are they ok with it? I mean, doesn't it hurt >> them? whether it's legal or not? >> >> >> On 1/13/09 5:05 PM, "Mark Weiss" wrote: >> >>> To extrapolate: >>> >>> Since as it becomes easier to get laid for free the stuff a >>> prostitute has to do to make a living gets weirder everybody should >>> keep their legs crossed. >>> >>> Did I get it right? >>> >>> I'm ok with folks doing what they want to make a living, even if they >>> only do it because they feel bad about themselves, and people buying >>> their services, even if they only do it because they feel bad about >>> themselves. Unless we legislate mental health (and assume that the >>> motivations are always unhealthy) it's the best we're likely to do. >>> >>> Coercion of any kind is another matter. Legalization makes it a lot >>> easier to fight coercion (and incidentally to minimize the spread >> of disease). >>> >>> I'd say the same for drug use, even though most people probably >>> shouldn't put a spike in their arm. >>> >>> Mark >>> >>> At 12:39 AM 1/13/2009, you wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> I've been following the discussion only sporadically, so please >>>> forgive any redundancy, but, the well-known "Effects of Prolonged >>>> Consumption of Pornography" and other studies suggest that in places >>>> where pornography is legal and increasingly popular there is a >>>> corresponding decrease in the incidence of violent sexual >>>> crimes. As if the medium could allow for the safe channeling of >>>> certain repressed and thereby sinister desires. However, many >>>> observers attribute said decreased incidence to a greater leniency >>>> in attitudes towards sexual behavior and an inability, or >>>> unwillingness, to interpret sex crimes as such. In this regard, >>>> where pornography is widely consumed, we might note the evolution of >>>> more exotic and aggressive forms of it (think anus, gangbang, shit >>>> in the mouth). >>>> >>>> Though pornography and prostitution aren't the same thing, perhaps >>>> the same principle holds true. The more the thing is permitted, the >>>> more boring it gets, and so, the more deviant and illicit and >>>> forbidden its form must take. Or in other terms, hunger (out of >>>> boredom) ensures the creation (and delivery) of new products. The >>>> more we're ok with prostitution, the more we're ok with whatever >>>> treatment the prostitute receives, and the more novel treatments >>>> we'll surely find. Let the free market rule. After all they're >>>> just a muscle. >>>> >>>> Jared Schickling >>>> >>> >>> ================================== >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & >>> sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 16:13:13 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: Can "nature" poetry be postmodern/post-structural? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hey MJ my stuff's full o nature sunsets and stuff even a flower or 2 clouds moon etc we live with it wherever we are On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 10:52:45 -0600 Mary Jo Malo writes: > Many thanks to all who have sent suggestions on/off list. Remembered > a > few of my own favorites: Lyn Lifshin and Geraldine Green. I was > appalled with Richard Louv's opinion about the lack of nature found > in > modern "urban" poetry and needed some affirmation :) > > Mary Jo Malo > > -- > http://thisshiningwound.blogspot.com/ > http://apophisdeconstructingabsurdity.blogspot.com/ > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 21:38:56 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jena Osman Subject: ChainLinks update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, We're pleased to announce that the first three books in the ChainLinks = series are now available through Small Press Distribution: =20 1) Intersection: Sidewalks and Public Space eds. Marci Nelligan and Nicole Mauro with work by Jane Jacobs, Paul Madonna, Claire Potter, William Pope L., = Mitchell Duneier, and Melissa Ngo http://spdbooks.org/details.asp?BookID=3D1930068395 This book has been review in Jacket Magazine: http://jacketmagazine.com/36/r-chainlinks-rb-alvergue.shtml and you can hear an interview about the book with Marci Nelligan here: http://madriveranthology.wordpress.com/2008/08/16/marci-nelligan-intersec= tion/ =20 2) Borders eds. Susanne Christensen and Audun Lindholm with work by Ida Borjel, Matias Faldbakken, and Das Beckwerk http://spdbooks.org/details.asp?BookID=3D9781930068384 =20 3) Refuge/Refugee ed. Jena Osman with work by Emily Abendroth, Bryan Finoki, Amze Emmons, and The = Documentary Project http://spdbooks.org/details.asp?BookID=3D9781930068414 =20 Stay tuned for more books in the series, as well as a new and improved = website for Chain Arts (www.chainarts.org). =20 Best, Jena Osman and Juliana Spahr ChainLinks Series Editors =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 16:16:26 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: blog article about The Accidental Artist In-Reply-To: <496DFA15.3020703@umn.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Thank you! The images are somewhat old I think - the 'matrix' is much more complex at the moment, perhaps less jewel-like. If anyone wants to follow the development of all of this, go to http://www.alansondheim.org and then click _twice_ on "Last Modified" - this brings the recent images/videos/ to the top of the directory (click once and the oldest files are at the top). For descriptions, click on the first .txt file - which at the moment is "py.txt" - the newest material is at the bottom. That's about it and again thanks! - Alan | Alan Sondheim Mail archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ | To access the Odyssey exhibition The Accidental Artist: | http://slurl.com/secondlife/Odyssey/48/12/22 | Webpage (directory) at http://www.alansondheim.org | sondheim@panix.com, sondheim@gmail.org, tel US 718-813-3285 On Wed, 14 Jan 2009, Maria Damon wrote: > totally gorgeous. azure's voice and those vibrant jewel-like images in > motion, wow! > > Alan Sondheim wrote: >> (sent to me by Opensource Obscure, and thanks - Alan) >> >> http://www.secondlifeupdate.com/virtual-world-experiences/top-5-works-of-art-in-second-life-pics-video-the-accidental-artist/ >> or http://bit.ly/Ne0N >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines >> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 21:46:46 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: "Daniel Remein, Editor" Subject: fashion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Whiskey & Fox's most recent print issue (the last of our very tiny and hastily made editions), Vol. 2 No. 2, May 2008, "Fashion," is now available electronically. For free, of course, on our website at http://whiskeyandfox.blogspot.com . "Fashion" features work from Toma=9E =8Aalamun, Thomas Kane, Kelly Ramsey, Sarah Bagley, Julie Granum, Robin Clarke, Sten Carlson, Emily Gropp, Daniel C. Remein, and Joshua Zelesnick. Additionally, I do think a good deal of the POETICS community will be interested in this journal, its politics, its publications, etc--as readers and contributors. If you haven't yet made your way over there, give it a look around, http://whiskeyandfox.blogspot.com . There is still a current call for submissions for the next issue, "Doing Politics with Animals," our first all-electronic larger-scale production. Cheers Daniel C. Remein, Editor whiskeyandfox@gmail.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 20:52:49 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Fluffy Singler Subject: Re: coMpetition does MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Does it have to be about competition? I teach theatre as well as having taught writing on occasion. The thing about theatre and performance is that you HAVE to make mistakes in front = of other people in order to get better and so for me, it's important to = create a laboratory environment where it's assumed that you'll make some = "mistakes" and that some things will work better than other. Using the laboratory analogy, scientists don't assume that every experiment will produce = expected or predictable results. That's the point--to try things and see how they work. =20 With peer review of any kind of work, that's what I try to focus = on--what worked or didn't work and why, keeping in mind that peer review is still = as much about developing the skills of the reviewer as the person being reviewed, whether grad or undergrad students. What elements drew your attention? Where were things unclear? And also to ask the performing = (or writing) students what their own goals were so that the work can be evaluated in those terms. Maybe they're ok with some things being = open-ended or unclear, for example. Maybe some of the things that disturb their = peers structurally are intended to disturb or annoy. Maybe there's a = legitimate goal there. Or, maybe the work is truly muddled or clich=E9d or maybe = the work has all the elements it needs but still doesn't come together and = needs a monkeywrench. The point of a workshop should be to help the artist = get to clarity about what they've done, not even to critique or compare = yourselves to one another. I have a friend who does experimental writing and has a very hard time = in workshops because her writing is so different than what many of the = other students do. But it shouldn't be about personal taste, even though = writing is definitely subjective. =20 There's something to be said for instructors setting a tone that = encourages students to open their minds to other types of writing than their own, = other types of writing than what they personally like or think is "good" and = to consider that each writer may have his or her own objectives to what = they write. Having some regular readings that encourage students to open up = to other types of writing, as well as the writing assignments themselves, = can also help with that. It seems to me that the instructor needs to keep a handle on all of that. But again, I don't see where it has to be a competition at all, personally. -----Original Message----- From: CA Conrad [mailto:caconrad13@GMAIL.COM]=20 Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 11:28 AM Subject: coMpetition does Recently I've met a couple of young poets (yet again) who dropped out of poetry writing workshops because they were, in the words of one of these poets, "eaten alive." The conversation isn't new. And it's not a conversation about workshops in particular, but competition in a bigger sense. When is competition good, meaning productive, meaning THE THING which spurs poets into action in the best sense, in the sense of WANTING to write as well as they can. And when is competition ugly, filled with envy and jealousy, reaching a surprising number of times in my observations to the most corrupt, wicked, disturbing places people can get to. The conversation is tricky because I'm always trying to ask, investigate with others, WHERE IS THE line between competition when it's healthy, and rotten? There's no doubt in my mind that these two young poets (the latest two that is, as I've been having this conversation for years now and I don't even remember how many times I've had it frankly) love, really LOVE poetry. We share that, we find when talking that we share that DRIVE, depositing ourselves in front of bookstore poetry sections, and libraries, and asking everyone we know who their favorite poets are, and titles, and never getting enough of this love. Never getting enough of it. And not just feeling sad when a bookstore like GOTHAM BOOKMART closes down but ANGRY! We're so much alike, and we tell one another what we're most excited about NOW, and everyone's scratching notes for the library and bookstore. How we're NOT alike is that these two young poets are VERY vulnerable to attack. When they were said to be "eaten alive" I'm not surprised. And I'm sad, and wish they were MORE LIKE ME and laugh at the bastards and say, "OH YOU'RE JUST A HATER, YOU JEALOUS PIG!" Or, "Yeah well, THANKS, being attacked GETS ME UP IN THE MORNING TO MAKE YOU ANGRY!" It feeds me when someone attacks me, I LOVE it. But of course a lot of people don't respond well when they're attacked, and this makes me sad. I've known poets WHOSE POEMS MADE ME HAPPY who stopped writing poems because of such attacks. In some cases the attacks were from their professors, and the other students, egged-on by the professors. A FEEDING FRENZY in such a way that makes me want to puke for poetry. It disgusts me this kind of behavior. I'm not a professor, but I have conducted poetry workshops, and it's NOT HARD AT ALL in my opinion to keep the focus about everyone (including myself because I want to learn from THEM TOO!) investigating poetry together! My focus is about PROCESS, about the many weird ways to MAKE poetry happen, NOT ABOUT who is writing poems I think are good, or another person in the workshop thinks are good, or not. This is NOT goody-two-shoe bullshit, I'm JUST NOT INTERESTED in telling someone whether I like their poems or not when I'm conducting workshops. And it's none of my business frankly. But to LOVE poetry, and read it, and create it, and have it in our lives, now THAT is something I get very excited about! But what is that line? When is it crossed from productive and beautiful and everyone's excited and MAKING poetry, to that place of shit? I'd rather see poems ABOUT that dark spot on the poetry map, than see it overwhelm another poet. And I mean overwhelm the poet who NEEDS to be vicious, and of course I mean the poet who gets beaten down. This conversation cannot happen unless we talk about the bigger things around it, like, WHY IS EVERYONE NOT UNDERSTANDING EVERYONE IS CREATIVE WE ARE ALL CREATIVE THIS IS NOT UP FOR DEBATE. Or is it? I've had people tell me this is wrong, that everyone's NOT creative. But I disagree. And the conversation needs to be about how the way poets act about scarcity and fear that there's not enough NOT ENOUGH magazines NOT ENOUGH awards or enough room at the reading series, not enough, is really, such an old story about us being animals. And the conversation needs to be about how to protect ourselves if we can't withstand the attacks. And the conversation needs to be about how people don't need to attack others because THERE IS ENOUGH. And the conversation needs to be about how art and all our creative abilities have become part of a big system in the capital of art and poetry, and books, and writing programs and teaching and, and, and CONSUMPTION, and frankly how, more than ever there's more reasons than ever for us to feel like we're NOT working hard enough, NOT being good enough, NOT good enough, so many reasons to feel like shit. It's a big conversation. But I feel I'm always having it. And it's one of the most important ones to have some days, especially when I meet young poets who have just been destroyed in workshops, made to feel worthless. The one poet started crying, and said, literally between sobs, "ALL I WANT TO DO IS WRITE POETRY!" It's really awful, I just want to hit whoever did this to this person, but of course that's not helpful. The line crossed is hard to see because it's different for everyone, I think. Right? Sometimes I'm not sure I'm right about that, but it feels right, doesn't just feel like an answer I've come up with to forget thinking about it, because I really want to figure it out, if it can be figured out. There's too much at stake, at least it feels that way when I meet YET ANOTHER amazing young poet who becomes afraid of workshops and other poets and stops writing. I've met so many amazing poets who stop, for so many reasons they stop. The most common reason though is that they get worn out from the struggle of dealing with many hungry egos. And their own hungry ego. It goes back to the discussion about why we're writing, and what has writing become in this world for us? CAConrad --=20 PhillySound: new poetry http://PhillySound.blogspot.com THE BOOK OF FRANK by CAConrad http://CAConrad.blogspot.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check = guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 23:54:21 -0300 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ryan Daley Subject: Re: coMpetition does In-Reply-To: <9778b8630901141850ua2bcf1tc03b1af42d49ec03@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline The problem with the workshop system is that you are you and not the writer. When you workshop someone else's work, you see it through your eyes. The most destructive crits come from those who fail to meet the work of others on its own terms...but to reduce this discussion to a simple binary, that "all workshops are bad," is absurd. On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 11:50 PM, Ryan Daley wrote: > Agree with Troy on this one. > > > On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 4:04 PM, Troy Camplin wrote: > >> Being eaten alive in a workshop isn't a bad thing. If you can't stand >> criticism of your work, you won't improve much as an artist. This isn't to >> say that everything in a workshop is golden (it isn't), but you come out >> with many perspectives and, if you know what you're really hearing, you can >> figure out what's really wrong that needs work among the comments and >> criticisms. But CA is right, you do have to be careful to distinguish >> between those who wish to help you, and those who are envious and want to >> tear you down, to "get rid of the competition." Again, if you're paying >> attention, it does become pretty obvious before long. Be on the lookout for >> those who come up to you later and apologize for "being so rough" and/or who >> offer more suggestions or offer to look at it again after the revision. >> Those are the ones who want to help you. They will also more likely be the >> good poets. Nasty, antisocial, selfish people do not have the wisdom >> necessary to be >> great poets. Or even good or mediocre poets. >> >> Troy Camplin >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: steve d. dalachinsky >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 12:25:39 AM >> Subject: Re: coMpetition does >> >> here here CA i fully understand being one who has always avoided >> workshops and it probably shows >> >> On Tue, 13 Jan 2009 12:28:19 -0500 CA Conrad >> writes: >> > Recently I've met a couple of young poets (yet again) who dropped >> > out >> > of poetry writing workshops because they were, in the words of one >> > of >> > these poets, "eaten alive." >> > >> > The conversation isn't new. And it's not a conversation about >> > workshops in particular, but competition in a bigger sense. >> > >> > When is competition good, meaning productive, meaning THE THING >> > which >> > spurs poets into action in the best sense, in the sense of WANTING >> > to >> > write as well as they can. >> > >> > And when is competition ugly, filled with envy and jealousy, >> > reaching >> > a surprising number of times in my observations to the most >> > corrupt, >> > wicked, disturbing places people can get to. >> > >> > The conversation is tricky because I'm always trying to ask, >> > investigate with others, WHERE IS THE line between competition when >> > it's healthy, and rotten? >> > >> > There's no doubt in my mind that these two young poets (the latest >> > two >> > that is, as I've been having this conversation for years now and I >> > don't even remember how many times I've had it frankly) love, >> > really >> > LOVE poetry. We share that, we find when talking that we share >> > that >> > DRIVE, depositing ourselves in front of bookstore poetry sections, >> > and >> > libraries, and asking everyone we know who their favorite poets >> > are, >> > and titles, and never getting enough of this love. Never getting >> > enough of it. And not just feeling sad when a bookstore like >> > GOTHAM >> > BOOKMART closes down but ANGRY! >> > >> > We're so much alike, and we tell one another what we're most >> > excited >> > about NOW, and everyone's scratching notes for the library and >> > bookstore. How we're NOT alike is that these two young poets are >> > VERY >> > vulnerable to attack. When they were said to be "eaten alive" I'm >> > not >> > surprised. And I'm sad, and wish they were MORE LIKE ME and laugh >> > at >> > the bastards and say, "OH YOU'RE JUST A HATER, YOU JEALOUS PIG!" >> > Or, >> > "Yeah well, THANKS, being attacked GETS ME UP IN THE MORNING TO >> > MAKE >> > YOU ANGRY!" It feeds me when someone attacks me, I LOVE it. >> > >> > But of course a lot of people don't respond well when they're >> > attacked, and this makes me sad. I've known poets WHOSE POEMS MADE >> > ME >> > HAPPY who stopped writing poems because of such attacks. In some >> > cases the attacks were from their professors, and the other >> > students, >> > egged-on by the professors. A FEEDING FRENZY in such a way that >> > makes >> > me want to puke for poetry. It disgusts me this kind of behavior. >> > >> > I'm not a professor, but I have conducted poetry workshops, and >> > it's >> > NOT HARD AT ALL in my opinion to keep the focus about everyone >> > (including myself because I want to learn from THEM TOO!) >> > investigating poetry together! My focus is about PROCESS, about >> > the >> > many weird ways to MAKE poetry happen, NOT ABOUT who is writing >> > poems >> > I think are good, or another person in the workshop thinks are >> > good, >> > or not. >> > >> > This is NOT goody-two-shoe bullshit, I'm JUST NOT INTERESTED in >> > telling someone whether I like their poems or not when I'm >> > conducting >> > workshops. And it's none of my business frankly. But to LOVE >> > poetry, >> > and read it, and create it, and have it in our lives, now THAT is >> > something I get very excited about! >> > >> > But what is that line? When is it crossed from productive and >> > beautiful and everyone's excited and MAKING poetry, to that place >> > of >> > shit? >> > >> > I'd rather see poems ABOUT that dark spot on the poetry map, than >> > see >> > it overwhelm another poet. And I mean overwhelm the poet who NEEDS >> > to >> > be vicious, and of course I mean the poet who gets beaten down. >> > >> > This conversation cannot happen unless we talk about the bigger >> > things >> > around it, like, WHY IS EVERYONE NOT UNDERSTANDING EVERYONE IS >> > CREATIVE WE ARE ALL CREATIVE THIS IS NOT UP FOR DEBATE. Or is it? >> > I've had people tell me this is wrong, that everyone's NOT >> > creative. >> > But I disagree. >> > >> > And the conversation needs to be about how the way poets act about >> > scarcity and fear that there's not enough NOT ENOUGH magazines NOT >> > ENOUGH awards or enough room at the reading series, not enough, is >> > really, such an old story about us being animals. >> > >> > And the conversation needs to be about how to protect ourselves if >> > we >> > can't withstand the attacks. >> > >> > And the conversation needs to be about how people don't need to >> > attack >> > others because THERE IS ENOUGH. >> > >> > And the conversation needs to be about how art and all our creative >> > abilities have become part of a big system in the capital of art >> > and >> > poetry, and books, and writing programs and teaching and, and, and >> > CONSUMPTION, and frankly how, more than ever there's more reasons >> > than >> > ever for us to feel like we're NOT working hard enough, NOT being >> > good >> > enough, NOT good enough, so many reasons to feel like shit. >> > >> > It's a big conversation. But I feel I'm always having it. And >> > it's >> > one of the most important ones to have some days, especially when I >> > meet young poets who have just been destroyed in workshops, made to >> > feel worthless. The one poet started crying, and said, literally >> > between sobs, "ALL I WANT TO DO IS WRITE POETRY!" It's really >> > awful, >> > I just want to hit whoever did this to this person, but of course >> > that's not helpful. >> > >> > The line crossed is hard to see because it's different for everyone, >> > I >> > think. Right? Sometimes I'm not sure I'm right about that, but it >> > feels right, doesn't just feel like an answer I've come up with to >> > forget thinking about it, because I really want to figure it out, >> > if >> > it can be figured out. There's too much at stake, at least it >> > feels >> > that way when I meet YET ANOTHER amazing young poet who becomes >> > afraid >> > of workshops and other poets and stops writing. >> > >> > I've met so many amazing poets who stop, for so many reasons they >> > stop. The most common reason though is that they get worn out from >> > the struggle of dealing with many hungry egos. And their own >> > hungry >> > ego. It goes back to the discussion about why we're writing, and >> > what >> > has writing become in this world for us? >> > >> > CAConrad >> > -- >> > PhillySound: new poetry http://PhillySound.blogspot.com >> > >> > THE BOOK OF FRANK by CAConrad http://CAConrad.blogspot.com >> > >> > ================================== >> > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> > guidelines & sub/unsub info: >> > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > >> > >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 00:37:42 -0500 Reply-To: dbuuck@mindspring.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David Buuck Subject: Reminder: Small Press Traffic's Poets Theater 09 starts this Friday! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This Friday 1/16: POETS THEATER FEST, NIGHT ONE! Please join us for a full night of theater, performance, and other delights= , at the first night of our annual Poets Theater Fest fundraiser. Featuring= : WORLD PREMIERES OF: "Elsa in Berlin" by Stan Apps (directed by David Brazil) "Perverted Virtue" by Tetra Balestri (directed by Milenko Skoknic) "Rabbit Butoh, Bunny Butoh" by Bhanu Kapil (directed by Erin Morrill) "Trademark Girls" by Wendy Kramer (directed by the author) plus: * three short plays by Daniil Kharms, trans. Matvei Yankelevich (directed b= y Brent Cunningham) * offstage performances by Lindsey Boldt, Ariel Goldberg, Brandon Brown, & = Lara Durbeck * as well as a huge raffle, with artworks, signed broadsides and more, from= a variety of poets, artists, and presses. * wine & refreshments will be served. And: come back on the 23rd for longer plays by Leslie Scalapino, Raymond Pe= ttibon, Vanessa Place & Olive Us, & again on the 30th for inter-media & vid= eo works by Linh Dinh, Heriberto Y=C3=A9pez, Konrad Steiner, Henry Hills, P= aolo Javier & Dennis Somera, Ariana Reines, Dillon Westbrook, Karla Milosev= ich, Cassie Riger & Amanda Davidson, Bill Luoma, Claudia Rankine, & more! see you then & there! Show starts promptly at 730pm. $10 Timken Hall, California College of the Arts 1111 8th St., San Francisco sptraffic.org smallpresstraffic.blogspot.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 06:06:41 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jason Nelson Subject: strange new digital poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii New digital poetry from Jason Nelson Title: I made this. You play this. We are enemies. http://www.secrettechnology.com/madethis/enemy6.html The game is a sequel to last year's "game, game, game and again game" which had over 5 million hits world wide. http://www.secrettechnology.com/gamegame/gamegame.html And of course any thoughts are more than appreciated. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:02:33 +0100 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Obododimma Oha Subject: Re: Bailout In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No amount of money can purchase virginity. It is simply priceless. -- Obododimma. On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 2:40 PM, mIEKAL aND wrote: > (this piggybacks nicely on the brothel dissection...) > > > Grad Student Selling Virginity Flooded With Offers > > http://cbs13.com/local/selling.virginity.tuition.2.815171.html > > A Sacramento State grad trying to make money by auctioning off her > virginity to help pay for her graduate studies is getting lots of > offers...and not just for sex. > > The 22-year-old who is using the pseudonym Natalie Dylan for safety reasons > is going through a legal brothel in Nevada to sell her virginity. Dylan told > CBS13 she's gotten an offer of $250,000. And now she's gotten an offer to > do a photo spread for Penthouse magazine. > > The auction is being handled by the Bunny Ranch in Carson City, Nevada with > bids coming in through their website. > > Dylan says she's already taken a polygraph test to prove her virginal > status, and is also willing to undergo a medical exam. > > "The main purpose of this is to finance a couple things in my life," Dylan > told CBS13. "I think empowerment of women is picking yourself up and doing > something on your own to better yourself." > > So far, hundreds of offers have already come in including some from male > virgins. Natalie says she won't give up her virginity to the highest > bidder. She's also seeking other qualities from her first lover. "I'm > looking for intelligence and an overall nice person," said Dylan. > > Dylan says she ended up in a financial bind, because her stepfather > allegedly used her college status to fraudulently apply for student loans, > and then ran off with the money. > > Dylan earned her bachelor's degree in women's studies from Sacramento State > and plans to get her master's at the school beginning in January. > > Many Sac State students say they're shocked to hear about their former > classmate's plan, while others applaud her. > > "She's just giving it to some random person. And I just think she should be > giving it to someone special she loves," said one student on campus. > > While another felt that selling her virginity for grad school "is a noble > reason to get money." > > As for Natalie, after claiming to hold on to her virginity for 22 years > (although the Bunny Ranch website claims she is 21-years-old), she says she > has a commodity not many people have to sell. > > "When I was younger, I wanted 100% romance, possibly even wait for > marriage. But as I grew up, reality kinda hit. And I think its a > capitalistic society and I want to capitalize on this," explained Dylan. > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > -- Obododimma Oha Senior Lecturer in Stylistics & Semiotics Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & Fellow, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:17:37 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: gabriel siegel Subject: Re: coMpetition does In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Workshops are good things-- Whatever mediocrity writes, is what you shouldn't. On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 12:28 PM, CA Conrad wrote: > Recently I've met a couple of young poets (yet again) who dropped out > of poetry writing workshops because they were, in the words of one of > these poets, "eaten alive." > > The conversation isn't new. And it's not a conversation about > workshops in particular, but competition in a bigger sense. > > When is competition good, meaning productive, meaning THE THING which > spurs poets into action in the best sense, in the sense of WANTING to > write as well as they can. > > And when is competition ugly, filled with envy and jealousy, reaching > a surprising number of times in my observations to the most corrupt, > wicked, disturbing places people can get to. > > The conversation is tricky because I'm always trying to ask, > investigate with others, WHERE IS THE line between competition when > it's healthy, and rotten? > > There's no doubt in my mind that these two young poets (the latest two > that is, as I've been having this conversation for years now and I > don't even remember how many times I've had it frankly) love, really > LOVE poetry. We share that, we find when talking that we share that > DRIVE, depositing ourselves in front of bookstore poetry sections, and > libraries, and asking everyone we know who their favorite poets are, > and titles, and never getting enough of this love. Never getting > enough of it. And not just feeling sad when a bookstore like GOTHAM > BOOKMART closes down but ANGRY! > > We're so much alike, and we tell one another what we're most excited > about NOW, and everyone's scratching notes for the library and > bookstore. How we're NOT alike is that these two young poets are VERY > vulnerable to attack. When they were said to be "eaten alive" I'm not > surprised. And I'm sad, and wish they were MORE LIKE ME and laugh at > the bastards and say, "OH YOU'RE JUST A HATER, YOU JEALOUS PIG!" Or, > "Yeah well, THANKS, being attacked GETS ME UP IN THE MORNING TO MAKE > YOU ANGRY!" It feeds me when someone attacks me, I LOVE it. > > But of course a lot of people don't respond well when they're > attacked, and this makes me sad. I've known poets WHOSE POEMS MADE ME > HAPPY who stopped writing poems because of such attacks. In some > cases the attacks were from their professors, and the other students, > egged-on by the professors. A FEEDING FRENZY in such a way that makes > me want to puke for poetry. It disgusts me this kind of behavior. > > I'm not a professor, but I have conducted poetry workshops, and it's > NOT HARD AT ALL in my opinion to keep the focus about everyone > (including myself because I want to learn from THEM TOO!) > investigating poetry together! My focus is about PROCESS, about the > many weird ways to MAKE poetry happen, NOT ABOUT who is writing poems > I think are good, or another person in the workshop thinks are good, > or not. > > This is NOT goody-two-shoe bullshit, I'm JUST NOT INTERESTED in > telling someone whether I like their poems or not when I'm conducting > workshops. And it's none of my business frankly. But to LOVE poetry, > and read it, and create it, and have it in our lives, now THAT is > something I get very excited about! > > But what is that line? When is it crossed from productive and > beautiful and everyone's excited and MAKING poetry, to that place of > shit? > > I'd rather see poems ABOUT that dark spot on the poetry map, than see > it overwhelm another poet. And I mean overwhelm the poet who NEEDS to > be vicious, and of course I mean the poet who gets beaten down. > > This conversation cannot happen unless we talk about the bigger things > around it, like, WHY IS EVERYONE NOT UNDERSTANDING EVERYONE IS > CREATIVE WE ARE ALL CREATIVE THIS IS NOT UP FOR DEBATE. Or is it? > I've had people tell me this is wrong, that everyone's NOT creative. > But I disagree. > > And the conversation needs to be about how the way poets act about > scarcity and fear that there's not enough NOT ENOUGH magazines NOT > ENOUGH awards or enough room at the reading series, not enough, is > really, such an old story about us being animals. > > And the conversation needs to be about how to protect ourselves if we > can't withstand the attacks. > > And the conversation needs to be about how people don't need to attack > others because THERE IS ENOUGH. > > And the conversation needs to be about how art and all our creative > abilities have become part of a big system in the capital of art and > poetry, and books, and writing programs and teaching and, and, and > CONSUMPTION, and frankly how, more than ever there's more reasons than > ever for us to feel like we're NOT working hard enough, NOT being good > enough, NOT good enough, so many reasons to feel like shit. > > It's a big conversation. But I feel I'm always having it. And it's > one of the most important ones to have some days, especially when I > meet young poets who have just been destroyed in workshops, made to > feel worthless. The one poet started crying, and said, literally > between sobs, "ALL I WANT TO DO IS WRITE POETRY!" It's really awful, > I just want to hit whoever did this to this person, but of course > that's not helpful. > > The line crossed is hard to see because it's different for everyone, I > think. Right? Sometimes I'm not sure I'm right about that, but it > feels right, doesn't just feel like an answer I've come up with to > forget thinking about it, because I really want to figure it out, if > it can be figured out. There's too much at stake, at least it feels > that way when I meet YET ANOTHER amazing young poet who becomes afraid > of workshops and other poets and stops writing. > > I've met so many amazing poets who stop, for so many reasons they > stop. The most common reason though is that they get worn out from > the struggle of dealing with many hungry egos. And their own hungry > ego. It goes back to the discussion about why we're writing, and what > has writing become in this world for us? > > CAConrad > -- > PhillySound: new poetry http://PhillySound.blogspot.com > > THE BOOK OF FRANK by CAConrad http://CAConrad.blogspot.com > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:15:53 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: John Cunningham Subject: name of French poet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm trying to recall the name of the French poet who referred to his poems as "promes"? John Herbert Cunningham ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 13:24:56 EST Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: William James Austin Subject: trouble with Blackbox MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello everyone, I am so very sorry for this major inconvenience. My computer died and took the Blackbox winter gallery submissions with it. I had similar trouble once before, but at that time I was able to repair the machine. This time, however, the old horse gave up, permanently. With the holidays, gall bladder surgery, plus periodontal work, I have just now been able to replace the computer. May I ask those who submitted work to resubmit so that the winter gallery can become a reality? Again, my sincerest apologies for this mess. Best, Bill (William James Austin) WilliamJamesAustin.com KojaPress.com SPDbooks.org Amazon.com BarnesandNoble.com


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A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.a spx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=DecemailfooterNO62) ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 08:09:41 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Troy Camplin Subject: Re: [SPAM]Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The law and people who support the law, that's who. Troy ________________________________ From: Ruth Lepson To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 7:01:13 PM Subject: Re: [SPAM]Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory who is telling them they can or can not do anything? On 1/14/09 1:56 PM, "Troy Camplin" wrote: > In the end, who are you or I or anybody else to tell someone what they can and > cannot do, to prevent people from hurting themselves (especially if it's our > opinion that they are hurting themselves)? It seems pretty arrogant to tell > adults what they can and cannot do with their own bodies and minds. We can > quibble all day about whether or not prostitutes under legalized conditions > are "hurt" by the job or not, but in the end, we don't know what a person > likes or does not lie, is hurt by or is not hurt by, prefers or does not > prefer precisely because we cannot be inside their heads, knowing any of those > things. Faced with such overwhelming ignorance of such things about others, we > should let people do what they want to do and be who they want to be so long > as it doesn't involve force or threat of force. THis isn't to say that one > should not be out there trying to create conditions where women don't have to > choose prostitution, that one shouldn't be trying > to change minds -- but it is to say that one should not be using either force > or the threat of force to make people do what you want or make them accept > what you think is best for them. > > Troy Camplin > > > > ________________________________ > From: Ruth Lepson > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 7:55:53 AM > Subject: Re: [SPAM]Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory > > well, you're ok with it but are they ok with it? I mean, doesn't it hurt > them? whether it's legal or not? > > > On 1/13/09 5:05 PM, "Mark Weiss" wrote: > >> To extrapolate: >> >> Since as it becomes easier to get laid for free the stuff a >> prostitute has to do to make a living gets weirder everybody should >> keep their legs crossed. >> >> Did I get it right? >> >> I'm ok with folks doing what they want to make a living, even if they >> only do it because they feel bad about themselves, and people buying >> their services, even if they only do it because they feel bad about >> themselves. Unless we legislate mental health (and assume that the >> motivations are always unhealthy) it's the best we're likely to do. >> >> Coercion of any kind is another matter. Legalization makes it a lot >> easier to fight coercion (and incidentally to minimize the spread of >> disease). >> >> I'd say the same for drug use, even though most people probably >> shouldn't put a spike in their arm. >> >> Mark >> >> At 12:39 AM 1/13/2009, you wrote: >> >>> >>> I've been following the discussion only sporadically, so please >>> forgive any redundancy, but, the well-known "Effects of Prolonged >>> Consumption of Pornography" and other studies suggest that in places >>> where pornography is legal and increasingly popular there is a >>> corresponding decrease in the incidence of violent sexual >>> crimes. As if the medium could allow for the safe channeling of >>> certain repressed and thereby sinister desires. However, many >>> observers attribute said decreased incidence to a greater leniency >>> in attitudes towards sexual behavior and an inability, or >>> unwillingness, to interpret sex crimes as such. In this regard, >>> where pornography is widely consumed, we might note the evolution of >>> more exotic and aggressive forms of it (think anus, gangbang, shit >>> in the mouth). >>> >>> Though pornography and prostitution aren't the same thing, perhaps >>> the same principle holds true. The more the thing is permitted, the >>> more boring it gets, and so, the more deviant and illicit and >>> forbidden its form must take. Or in other terms, hunger (out of >>> boredom) ensures the creation (and delivery) of new products. The >>> more we're ok with prostitution, the more we're ok with whatever >>> treatment the prostitute receives, and the more novel treatments >>> we'll surely find. Let the free market rule. After all they're >>> just a muscle. >>> >>> Jared Schickling >>> >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & >> sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:29:09 -0200 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Diego Navarro Subject: Re: Bailout In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v929.2) If virginity is priceless, so is life itself. Should then all the =20 material resources of society redirected to medical research? Arts-=20 related are an gigantic waste, in that case. Everything has a price. On 15/01/2009, at 07:02, Obododimma Oha wrote: > No amount of money can purchase virginity. It is simply priceless. > -- Obododimma. > > On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 2:40 PM, mIEKAL aND =20= > wrote: > >> (this piggybacks nicely on the brothel dissection...) >> >> >> Grad Student Selling Virginity Flooded With Offers >> >> http://cbs13.com/local/selling.virginity.tuition.2.815171.html >> >> A Sacramento State grad trying to make money by auctioning off her >> virginity to help pay for her graduate studies is getting lots of >> offers...and not just for sex. >> >> The 22-year-old who is using the pseudonym Natalie Dylan for safety =20= >> reasons >> is going through a legal brothel in Nevada to sell her virginity. =20 >> Dylan told >> CBS13 she's gotten an offer of $250,000. And now she's gotten an =20 >> offer to >> do a photo spread for Penthouse magazine. >> >> The auction is being handled by the Bunny Ranch in Carson City, =20 >> Nevada with >> bids coming in through their website. >> >> Dylan says she's already taken a polygraph test to prove her virginal >> status, and is also willing to undergo a medical exam. >> >> "The main purpose of this is to finance a couple things in my =20 >> life," Dylan >> told CBS13. "I think empowerment of women is picking yourself up =20 >> and doing >> something on your own to better yourself." >> >> So far, hundreds of offers have already come in including some from =20= >> male >> virgins. Natalie says she won't give up her virginity to the highest >> bidder. She's also seeking other qualities from her first lover. =20 >> "I'm >> looking for intelligence and an overall nice person," said Dylan. >> >> Dylan says she ended up in a financial bind, because her stepfather >> allegedly used her college status to fraudulently apply for student =20= >> loans, >> and then ran off with the money. >> >> Dylan earned her bachelor's degree in women's studies from =20 >> Sacramento State >> and plans to get her master's at the school beginning in January. >> >> Many Sac State students say they're shocked to hear about their =20 >> former >> classmate's plan, while others applaud her. >> >> "She's just giving it to some random person. And I just think she =20 >> should be >> giving it to someone special she loves," said one student on campus. >> >> While another felt that selling her virginity for grad school "is a =20= >> noble >> reason to get money." >> >> As for Natalie, after claiming to hold on to her virginity for 22 =20 >> years >> (although the Bunny Ranch website claims she is 21-years-old), she =20= >> says she >> has a commodity not many people have to sell. >> >> "When I was younger, I wanted 100% romance, possibly even wait for >> marriage. But as I grew up, reality kinda hit. And I think its a >> capitalistic society and I want to capitalize on this," explained =20 >> Dylan. >> >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check =20 >> guidelines >> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > > > > --=20 > Obododimma Oha > Senior Lecturer in Stylistics & Semiotics > Dept. of English > University of Ibadan > Nigeria > > & > > Fellow, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies > University of Ibadan > > Phone: +234 803 333 1330; > +234 805 350 6604. > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check =20 > guidelines & sub/unsub info: = http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html -- Diego Navarro FGV Projetos (21) 2559-5620 "Escrever n=E3o tem a ver com significados, mas com agrimensura e =20 cartografia, inclusive de terras desconhecidas" (Deleuze & Guattari, =20 "Mil Plat=F4s") =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 13:52:27 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Bailout In-Reply-To: <54463.57070.qm@web46214.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit not the fault of feminism but of the media. On 1/14/09 4:21 PM, "Troy Camplin" wrote: > I agree that there is a problem with women all too often seeing the world > through men's perspectives. One of the flaws of the feminist movement in the > U.S. was the acceptance of male virtues as the only virtues, meaning women > should emulate men -- and that emulation was not just in the economy, but in > sexuality as well. The truth is that there are manly/masculine virtues as well > as womanly/feminine virtues (as well as human virtues) that are not better or > worse than the other, but merely different and, typically, complementary. It > benefits everyone, especially couples, when the two are in balance. I also > have a suspicion that in the greatest artists, the two are balanced within the > individual him-/herself. > > Troy Camplin > > > > ________________________________ > From: Mary Kasimor > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 9:17:51 AM > Subject: Re: Bailout > > I wonder if we put too high a price on women's sexuality--I was of the > generation that came of age during the late 60's, and we women were so damn > glad to throw away our parents' prudishness about what "good girls do." I am > sure that men were overjoyed, and as I write that I wonder why I suddenly feel > "prickly" (I didn't mean that to be a play on words.) about men also feeling > liberated. I suppose our views on sexuality are such a part of our culture > that it is hard to separate culture from nature. Our intellects and talents > are also part of the free market. Tthe other problem is that women are still > seeing their world through men's perspectives--not always, but often. I think > that is obvious. > > Mary > > > > --- On Wed, 1/14/09, mIEKAL aND wrote: > > > From: mIEKAL aND > Subject: Bailout > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Date: Wednesday, January 14, 2009, 7:40 AM > > > (this piggybacks nicely on the brothel dissection...) > > > Grad Student Selling Virginity Flooded With Offers > > http://cbs13.com/local/selling.virginity.tuition.2.815171.html > > A Sacramento State grad trying to make money by auctioning off her virginity > to help pay for her graduate studies is getting lots of offers...and not just > for sex. > > The 22-year-old who is using the pseudonym Natalie Dylan for safety reasons is > going through a legal brothel in Nevada to sell her virginity. Dylan told > CBS13 she's gotten an offer of $250,000. And now she's gotten an offer to do > a photo spread for Penthouse magazine. > > The auction is being handled by the Bunny Ranch in Carson City, Nevada with > bids coming in through their website. > > Dylan says she's already taken a polygraph test to prove her virginal status, > and is also willing to undergo a medical exam. > > "The main purpose of this is to finance a couple things in my life," Dylan > told CBS13. "I think empowerment of women is picking yourself up and doing > something on your own to better yourself." > > So far, hundreds of offers have already come in including some from male > virgins. Natalie says she won't give up her virginity to the highest bidder. > She's also seeking other qualities from her first lover. "I'm looking for > intelligence and an overall nice person," said Dylan. > > Dylan says she ended up in a financial bind, because her stepfather allegedly > used her college status to fraudulently apply for student loans, and then ran > off with the money. > > Dylan earned her bachelor's degree in women's studies from Sacramento State > and plans to get her master's at the school beginning in January. > > Many Sac State students say they're shocked to hear about their former > classmate's plan, while others applaud her. > > "She's just giving it to some random person. And I just think she should be > giving it to someone special she loves," said one student on campus. > > While another felt that selling her virginity for grad school "is a noble > reason to get money." > > As for Natalie, after claiming to hold on to her virginity for 22 years > (although the Bunny Ranch website claims she is 21-years-old), she says she > has a commodity not many people have to sell. > > "When I was younger, I wanted 100% romance, possibly even wait for marriage. > But as I grew up, reality kinda hit. And I think its a capitalistic society > and I want to capitalize on this," explained Dylan. > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:05:57 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable thank you for what you wrote, David. you clearly feel things very deeply. and can sustain those feelings. my take on certain things is not the same a= s yours & I don't want to get into a discussion of that but just want to say you write to make us care about other people or to realize the ways in whic= h we don't. ruth On 1/14/09 4:28 PM, "David-Baptiste Chirot" wrote: > Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 05:41:22 -0800 > From: david.chirot@gmail.com > To: davidbchirot@hotmail.com > Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory >=20 > Actually I think that the Poetry Brothel may just be about what lengths p= eople > will go to "attract an audience"--and a paying one at that!--for their po= ems. >=20 > Isn't this like a "Reality Show" version of "Writer's/Poet's Market" in a= way? >=20 >=20 > Or those "Mystery Dinners" where you get to participate in a melodramatic > mystery story and eat fine food all at once? And maybe someone really wi= ll > die! From all the rich fare, instead of only simulating a heart attack to > surprise the unwitting into revealing themselves as dupes of expensive > illusions. >=20 >=20 > And won't some disgruntled client leave muttering darkly how they've just= been > screwed by some really lame poetry cleverly concealed by artfully posed > cleavage or the seductive flip of a gigolo's hair in the fake breezes waf= ted > by hidden fans whose whirrings are lost amidst the banging of the bangles= on > the long beaded strings operating as "harem decor" doors? >=20 >=20 > "It's like Weimar without the Nazis," one of the jolly entrepreneurs purr= s, > blithely oblivious to the fascism eating away at the fabric of American > society for a long time now. >=20 > If one considers the brothel from the point of view of poetry, isn't it = just > as it advertises itself to be: --a much more "entertaining" and "enticing= " way > of pimping one's works, because, after all , is that not what the "market > place of ideas" and the hustling and foreclosing on "intellectual propert= ies" > is all about? >=20 >=20 > Isn't it all like the Bert Brecht poem Fritz Lang starts to quote to the > sell-out self-prostituting writer played by Michel Piccoli in Godard's Le > Mepris (Contempt)?--A poem to the effect that the poet is going down to t= he > market (Hollywood) to sell his poetic wares, just as Socrates taught dow= n by > the market place, pimping his "intellectual properties" to the beautiful > young men as long as possible, postponing to the last possible second t= he > return not to Ithaca and Penelope, but to the mighty shrew Xanthippe, th= e > Founding Dominatrix of Philosophy's Sado-Masochistic tendencies >=20 >=20 > In essaying to follow this thread through its labyrinth, it strikes me th= at > despite the outrage at the objectification of women, prostitutes themselv= es > remain locked in language of objectification to such an extent here that = one > wonders if they are altogether abstract beings, or categories, sub > classifications-- rather than actual persons. >=20 >=20 >=20 > The neighborhood I live in is rife with prostitution. I'd say about 75% o= f the > women over around 18 one speaks with at the bus stop or walking home at n= ight > or during any time of the day are prostitutes. The moment one goes out t= he > door, they are waiting somewhere along the short block, close by, or hang= ing > out at the bus stop, greeting potential customers as they step out onto t= he > worn down Ghetto sidewalk, right by where the old covered waiting statio= n > used to be before being removed. That structure one day was gone, leavi= ng > only a concrete slab like a scab shoved into the side of a scraggly lawn = being > fixed up. The shelter had to go due to the vast teeming population of hu= man > traffickers, panhandlers, drunks, crackheads and hos who would sit there > smoking on the bench sheltered from the weather or spend hours motionless= ly > propped against the grimy graffiti slashed glass on its crumpling fram= e, > whispering in the voice that goes straight to the nervous system, with no= need > of an ear--"you straight?" >=20 >=20 > Since last mid-summer the new police chief has declared our area, known > forever as "Crack Alley," to be his first order of business to clean up. = It's > not the most violent area in the city, but one of the most concentrated i= n > terms of dope and prostitution. A lot of buildings next door all along= our > block are closed down and being cleaned up, as they were filled with crac= k hos > and dope dealers, and a continual stream of events such as at the several= days > running big TV story on the news about a kidnapped baby from next door an > incident like any other, squeezed in among some colorful shootings and > knifing incidents, not to mention the day a man with an AK-47 used our > building and the parking lot next to it for target practice, blowing off > chunks of the roof and managing to get some mega bullets through air vent= s and > hitting a resident here in the leg. The second the dude opened fire, one = knew > it was some different kind of weapon, and dove for the floor as bullets > chipped off almost the entire the window ledge, bit hungrily away at the > bricks just below it, before a quick spurt of sound sent a huge piece of= the > roof floating dreamily down past the window, like a very relaxed whale > diving deep deep down in the otherwise pleasant evening. Al one knew was = that > what seemed like eons later there was a huge thud and the walls shook as = the > big piece of mortared concrete hit the ground. >=20 >=20 > Al this has gradually been tamed down and now fewer prostitutes hawk thei= r > wares along the sidewalks and at the bus stops, though the ones still her= e are > the most persistent and bold ones. They can easily handle a cop with a p= atter > so fast that it seems not to end, but simply to have generated a continuo= usly > playing loop of its own echoed messages--while Sistah beats her wings and > takes flight, soaring over rooftops and vanishing into a vacant lot somew= here > blocks away. Hey shugah-- lets have us party . . .c'mon now--ain't gonna= bite > it off-- One time a woman whom I had seen and talked to a number of times= , > came up in a raging blizzard and begged me to go around the building to t= he > back steps and "suck you like heaven." She was so desperate she was down = on > her knees in the snow bank. It was below zero and almost no visibility-= -and > she had on just a thin skirt and jacket--she had an "auntie" near by so g= ot > her there and gave her enough for a few rocks, one of the few times ii ha= d > money on me in awhile-- >=20 > There are women out who are homeless and who knows where they go--so= me > can't get into the shelters due to the dope--their families won't let the= m in > for fear of being robbed--sometimes the police pick them up and put them = in > the jail so they wont die--Very few of the crack hos work for anyone but > themselves--too erratic to work for a pimp--they are so desperate at time= s > people will slip them a few bills-- >=20 >=20 > Around three in the morning most nights--the Zombies emerge--drifting alo= ng as > though only the air they lean against is holding them upright--moving slo= w and > stumblingly like the Living Dead of George Romero's films. Some of these > eerie figures begin emitting high keening sounds, extremely painful to > hear--the voices of desperation cutting the air into shreds--people sudde= nly > crumpling on the grass patches or falling down in a side walk gutter--In = such > bad shape they can't sell a thing to anyone-- >=20 >=20 > It's excruciating to see and hear some nights those figures with the eeri= e > phosphorescent death glows, auras of the grave and white powders and rock= s--to > look at these death bound ghosts and see oneself stumbling in the > night---through dim jerky memories of another being one once was---somew= here > in a war zone--miraculously surviving seizures and comas, blackouts, the > disappearance for a time of any sense of life--a black inert presence has= one > seemingly wedged between life and death--one can't move--yes--there goes = one > now--a person suddenly transfixed before going through a spastic imitatio= n of > a Crucifixion of themselves--seizures--thrashings-- >=20 >=20 > As the economy goes down the toilet, so do the places for help start to > vanish, become ever fewer--and some hospitals actually will turn away peo= ple > they think will never pay --no insurance, nothing-- >=20 > The whole health care system is eugenics against the poor and "unneeded"-= - >=20 >=20 > How many dope fiends, how many prostitutes, runaways, impressed into serv= ice > young women--wind up anonymously dead, the notations along the way of the > repetitions of a serial killer--and then another one and another--how man= y > dead women have you seen?--no ID and lying in the road late at > night--flashlight lit as some cops try to make sense of a murder scene so > bizarre the details cannot be released to the press? Or other scenes that= one > cannot get out of the mind--as well as ones one has only heard about--let > alone lived through-- >=20 >=20 > And yet none of these women were anonymous beings--many of them many peop= le > knew--remembered--loved--brought up--many around here one speaks with man= y > times a week-- >=20 > This is why much of this discussion to me is like an objectification of t= he > very beings that the protests about objectification are being made in the= name > of. =20 >=20 >=20 > My first memories of prostitutes was being offered a job in a fancy > whorehouse that catered to an American clientele of the old school--Texas= oil > men, business men on the loose in Gay Paree--the woman who hired me was a= sort > of second in command Madame--i don't recall how i met here--but she neede= d a > translator for a week while the regular one was on a vacation--so i spent= day > or night shifts translating back and forth, making introduction in the sw= ank > Western Saloon style room where introductions were exchanged and various = other > matters sorted out--I was 16 at the time and sleeping in streets and aban= doned > houses and cars, so some extra money and free meals was a great boost in = the > world for me--trhe Madame said, well, young man you can pass for 20--that= 's > old enough-- >=20 >=20 > The workers in the brothel were not allowed to go out with each other--as > there were other men who worked there, cooking, cleaning, doing dishes an= d > laundry--and doubling as bouncers and security guards if there was ever a= ny > problems at all-- >=20 >=20 > The women were al in a union and once month the government inspectors cam= e to > check everyone for diseases, and make sure the place was as clean as poss= ible, > and the behaviour of everyone was in line. The idea being that legalized = and > unionized prostitution gives rights and protection to the prostitutes the= y > otherwise do not have at all, as here in the land of the free. >=20 >=20 > When there was a time for our breaks, whoever was around would get togeth= er > and go to a cafe or sit in the kitchen and drink bocks and coffee. Lots > gossiping and card playing and showing about of pictures of children, > fiancees, husbands, boy friends. Then back to work. >=20 >=20 > Since then I've known a lot of prostitutes as friends or neighbors and th= ere > is always different yet somewhat a same story involved. >=20 > People say "prostitute" like it is someone filthy and low--but look at th= e > high class cal girls so called, who get politicians in trouble, or for th= at > matter the movie stars who charge huge amounts for the fotos of their bab= ies > or their bikini clad frolics with some ex-lover. >=20 >=20 > And how much did the American public pay for the election--a billion > dollars!!--How many people did the President sell himself to to get to th= e > Oval Office-- >=20 > How much of one's soul did one sell out for a step up the career ladder--= or > poem in a journal--or a name on the door like a Bigelow on the floor-- >=20 >=20 > How much of life is not a form of prostitution,--though perhaps without t= he > dangers and horrors the street level and sex slave trades, which buy up > children for the uses of perverts with immense bankrolls-- > or just tourists passing through on the way to see Junior's basketball ga= me-- >=20 >=20 > There is far more prostitution at every level than one would imagine, unt= il > one has seen how many things work, with the paying of cash for > appearances,hiring someone to take along--and then-- >=20 > And though people are angered --who is working to change things? In one = of > the five sections of Roberto Bolano's novel 2666--there are the relentles= sly > presented murders after murders with rapes and tortures recounted that > happened the area just over the American border--al these are young girls= who > work also in the factories--not prostitutes at all--but suddenly swooped = on > and turned into a ritualized thing--a doll, an object to be taken apart a= nd > then covered back up, with the neat clean clothes paced over the cut and > violated body-- >=20 >=20 > Imagine the Black Dahlia multiplied bya thousand--and al based on true > hapnings -- >=20 > These murderers of anonymous and known and named women--are like the seri= al > killer and anonymously butchered bodies found al over the USA--and al the > battered women, the addicted women, the homeless the insane-- >=20 >=20 > Years of sitting and talking,hanging out--and learning of these lives--is= how > one sees this not just as "objectification" in the sense of "the male gaz= e" > but of society's gaze--which doesn't see a person, but only reads the > label--"prostitute"-- >=20 >=20 > So that objectification carries even into the critics of objectification,= for > they themselves are not seeing a person, but only a label, a category-- >=20 > Or, at the Poetry Brothel, a Camp performance of something out of Cabaret= -- >=20 >=20 > What can one say other than that this is a disposable society and culture= ?-- > The inner cities are pumped full of crack by the CIA to destroy communiti= es, > enslave people to addiction, destroy generations of men and women, break = up > families--one looks around and sees the holocaust unfolding daily-- >=20 >=20 > and no one will do anything about it--there's way too much money involved= , way > too much to be milked out of Colombia and Afghanistan for the American en= ds of > these hook ups-- >=20 > Pumping Grade A US Certified killer heroin into the suburbs--the most ki= ck > ass and deadly heroin ever known to be in this country--killing scores o= f > users young and old--(very rarely do old users overdose--and now they are= by > untold numbers--dropping like flies) >=20 >=20 > The unending Wars, straight out of Orwell's 1984--War on Poverty--War on > Drugs--War on Terror-- >=20 > Think of the trillions that have been pumped into he War Machine--into th= e > genocide of Iraq--and the "Right War" President Obama has in mind for > Afghanistan and parts of Pakistan--not to mention the immense funding th= at > this country spends on Apartheid, while feeling so proud for electing a B= lack > president--we support the most vicious Apartheid regime there has been-- >=20 >=20 > What does that kind of hypocrisy tel one? >=20 > Right there its say it all--neither we nor our allies believe one whit in > democracy and equality--what we embrace mightily and pump billions and > trillions into is the establishment for eternity of Exceptionalism and Ra= cial > supremacy-- >=20 >=20 > This is why i think that the "objectification" halts at the word itself a= nd > does not go further--into those unpredictable areas where "prostitutes" a= re no > longer objects but actual persons-- >=20 >=20 > At an American Indian group the other night people were saying with grie= f and > shock and rage how horrified they were by the killing in Gaza--because fo= r > decades its a repeat of the land theft cultural destruction and genocide = of > the Indigenous peoples in America, now paid for and supplied by the mega = mega > tons overseas. >=20 >=20 > One man said--that's us they're killing all over again--why else does the= US > allow this to go on other than that they obviously must approve of it--ki= lling > and segregation, prison camps- hells on earth--the Trail of Tears--the > Apartheid Walls --Sieges--and the same old double talk to make it be cove= red > up=3D--to make it all look nice and pretty and hide the blood and muck away >=20 >=20 > in a way isn't that what the Poetry Brothel is al about--making the actua= l > "selling of poems" and "poets performances" far more "attractive" and > "exciting"--"stimulating"-- >=20 >=20 > than the usual boring read before a boring backdrop in a boring room -- > now instead of the dullness and no stimulation, no matter what the poems = are > like--who cares anyway!--a good time and eats and drinks will be had by a= ll-- >=20 >=20 > as they say in the restaurant business, its not what they eat that matter= s but > how good you make it look for them --that really whets the appetite > and seals the deal-- > think of how many art and poetry movements after al started in cabarets = and > clubs, bars--cellars--Dada--Punk--the scenes from Fellini's Satyricon whi= ch he > called a science fiction film set int he past >=20 >=20 >=20 > of "futurist" Latin poets reciting, or that is, having their paid reciter= s > recite--their verses and deadly clever epigrams which just be made into a= ctual > deaths > in a new and novel and very clever fashion-- >=20 > mush like the shaping of verses in an exquisitely honed new form, so are = the > creative variations and inventions which the poet executioner brings abou= t, > realized in aa > action event performance from > a Score of ingenious and fractal dice throwing chance operations-- >=20 > which never abolish chance-- >=20 > played upon the actual "backbone Flute" of Mayakovsky whose Russian Futur= ism > has likewise landed in the past--ready and willing to compete with Marine= tti's > in the arenas-- >=20 >=20 > of blood dust and glory-- > -- > think though that sooner or later the next steps will be taken and the p= oetry > and the brothel will be raised to ever higher scales and skills and so th= e > REAL money can start to roll in! >=20 >=20 > meaning--no more amateurs!--and then the Real Pros will start to roll in-= - >=20 > buy the poet and have he or she give not only the poem but themselves to = you!! > and then autograph you!! > or a nice foto of the two of you in flagrante delecto!! >=20 >=20 > why do it for free anyway-- > how tedious and unexciting! > it can be like the Visconti short film in which Romy Schneider discovers = her > husband is only really attracted to her when she makes him pay-- >=20 > isn't that why we like our wars so much, because we have to pay and pay a= nd > pay >=20 > for drugs and wars and poverty being spread far and wide by the massive > spending on wars-- >=20 > aren't these the ultimate Brothels--the porno of watching helpless people= s be > bombed and starved tortured cut off from medications and food water and > electricity in the winter cold--and phosphorous and cluster bombed to dea= th by > the hundreds and thousands-- >=20 >=20 > isn't this what we really paid for-- > the ultimate Snuff Films set in the vast desolation-- > the annihilation of a people -- >=20 > "until not one stone shall be left on another" > and what is next on the menu, what can possibly top this-- >=20 > the "Right War?"--the torching of every single moving being in Afghanista= n--of > parts of Pakistan > and then on to Iran--at last!!-- >=20 > and since no media is allowed to record anything as it happens > what great fun al national poets can have in suturing together the reams = of > Army footage and propaganda to produce the ultimate epic-- >=20 >=20 > the Brothel to end al Brothels----where the Snuff films play to the tinkl= ing > of subdued piano music and someone is reading a very radical and innovati= ve > poem >=20 > and after the audience has been softened up so to speak-- >=20 >=20 > as is conjectured in the Bolano story from the heinous realities-- > income the kidnapped and drugged runaways the over the hill hookers--the = too > addicted to function anymore--or simply the cutest little teenage girls > and/or boys you have ever seen-- >=20 > and right there in front of one, no longer a film-- >=20 > but the Reality Show of Death--LIVE!!! >=20 > now ladies and gentlemen isn't that what we are really paying for-- > admission to the ultimate Show!! >=20 > looking out the window here one can see it --the ultimate show--the death > rattles and violent seizures-- >=20 >=20 > the grip of crack on a ho's neck and her windpipe shutting down -- >=20 > let's see what kind of verses can be made to accompany those sounds-- >=20 > overdubbed or done LIVE > and right here and now before a video camera and mic >=20 > why not-- > to watch oneself watch the death of another-- > and then film that in turn until an endless hall of mirrors is made--of i= mages > of oneself watching another's death--murder-mutilation and violation---- >=20 > the ultimate brothel poetry show-- > as one's voice in the voice over is reciting the latest innovative style = of > radical poetry-- > and-- > a complete circuitry of onanism is accomplished--and recorded for the pay= ing > audience, the hottest thing going in the brothel charnal house of poetry >=20 > in the land of a thousand dances of death-- >=20 > the deaths individual and lonely and those public and many-- > the gleaming drones and fighter jets their ways lit by illegal use of > phosphorous illuminating the bursting into flames and blood of a family, = an > old woman-- >=20 > walls blown asunder to reveal--nothing-- > nothing had been there al along > except--the skin of a long departed onion > pale and translucent in the light of the spreading infernos-- > as bodies already burned through by phosphorous are ignited by the chemic= al > mixtures happening at lightning speed and transforming the veins into wri= ting > green vines that choke and tear the skeletons apart >=20 > and leave their grinning teeth lying their >=20 > deaths heads in the last views of a rape and snuff scene that is superimp= osed > and then faded out-- > as the bodies burn and skeletons disintegrate and the ground itself is > heaving, ion convulsions-- >=20 > and then erupts and like Atlantis what is left of this place of the damne= d and > doomed sinks forever out of sight >=20 > extinguished caught live on camera snuffed out-- > forever-- >=20 > though to be sure many captive females have bee hsutled off, saved to spe= nd > their lives serving in the brothels and live death cinemas-- >=20 >=20 > of the new order-- >=20 > the ultimate "Ending"-- > why not--as it has all been bought and paid for > and might just be the most incredible new form of poems-- > the real Apocalypse-- > snuffing out a culture >=20 >=20 > while poets recite and sexual acts are performed ending in the Death of > the--not the Author--but-- > that non person hauled into be slaughtered while everyone is aroused-- >=20 > this is the ultimate destination hinted at and part way accomplished in > Bolano's Distant Star (Polaroids instead of moving pictures--) and realiz= ed in > real life in Chile and turned into paragraphs in By Night in Chile-- >=20 >=20 > and eerily starting to become realized in new ways still unfolding-- > in the emergence of the new extreme experimental American poetry-- >=20 > and there sitting before one the Manet images-of prostitutes -turning in = to > scenes from Goya-- >=20 >=20 > . . . . . . Hardly ever any more does one look out a window on one sid= e of > the building and see sexual transactions going on between the wall and th= e > dumpsters. Or in the back of the building, in a an area the stairway th= at's > now too lit up for the old action to continue. Sex is very cheap--a coupl= e > bucks, five, ten--enough to get the next couple rocks of crack or a four = pack > of malt liquor. A lot of the time people are high and just want to talk w= ith > you and have a cigarette and feel like they are carrying on a "normal > conversation." And why not--just about everyone now and then would like t= o > feel if even for the course of smoking a cigarette like a "normal person= ." >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 7:14 PM, susan dunn-hensley > wrote: >=20 >=20 > Ruth- >=20 > =20 >=20 > For what it's worth, Ruth. I think you raised some valid points. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Susan >=20 >=20 >=20 > --- On Mon, 1/12/09, Ruth Lepson wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 > From: Ruth Lepson >=20 > Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory >=20 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >=20 > Date: Monday, January 12, 2009, 3:31 PM >=20 >=20 >=20 > there is a sweetheart--Tim Peterson. thank you, esp as I'm too busy to >=20 > continue this discussion. >=20 > love >=20 > ruth >=20 > wish we COULD. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > On 1/12/09 8:27 AM, "Tim Peterson" >=20 > wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 >> Adam! Ruth! Two of my dearest friends...it makes me feel terrible to see >=20 > you >=20 >> guys fighting like this! The Poetry Brothel is not worth getting this >=20 > upset >=20 >> about. Let's all kick back in my living room with a mug of coco and >=20 > listen >=20 >> to Gloria Steinheim records backwards. How about this evening? >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> Love, Tim >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 23:49:49 -0500 >=20 >> From: Ruth Lepson >=20 >> Subject: Re: Poetry Brothel at the Zipper Factory >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> twisting my words! >=20 >> so writing about objections to prostitution does nothing, huh--so words >=20 >> don't matter? >=20 >> I think all those jobs are degrading. >=20 >> I wd like to defend yr friends by getting them better jobs. >=20 >> I am not criticizing these women. >=20 >> Better working conditions wd be not having to succumb to male ideas of >=20 >> sexuality in our culture, such narrow constraints. >=20 >>=20 >=20 >>=20 >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> On 1/9/09 5:49 PM, "Adam Tobin" >=20 > wrote: >=20 >>=20 >=20 >>> but you were the one crying shame! on the women of the Poetry Brothel! >=20 > for >=20 >>> dressing like whores! >=20 >>>=20 >=20 >>> (please note that I am NOT arguing that prostitution is not a sexist >=20 >>> institution. clearly it is. and i agree that it is part of a complex >=20 > of >=20 >>> normative heterosexuality that does terrible violence to all women. >=20 > But >=20 >> as >=20 >>> for the actual women who are living in actual slavery, i think >=20 > complaining >=20 >>> about the symbolic degrading of womankind does nothing for them: >=20 > it's like >=20 >>> trying to improve the safety of coal mines by complaining about >=20 > climate >=20 >>> change. >=20 >>>=20 >=20 >>> And if you're just using those women (who are very real, and many >=20 > of them >=20 >>> living in absolutely horrific situations, as you rightly pointed out) >=20 > as >=20 >>> symbols of Degraded Womankind, you are doing a disservice to them and >=20 > also >=20 >>> to the many many women (some of whom must be subscribers to this list) >=20 > who >=20 >>> work in other parts of the sex trade -- exotic dancers, high-end >=20 >> call-girls, >=20 >>> dominatrices, nude housekeepers, pornographic models, hooters >=20 > waitresses, >=20 >>> etc. -- some of these people are my friends and i take it personally >=20 > -- >=20 >> and >=20 >>> I think that their own struggles for better working conditions are not >=20 >>> unrelated to the struggle against slavery in other parts of their >=20 > bosses' >=20 >>> businesses... >=20 >>>=20 >=20 >>> -- but i'm sorry that i overreacted and became part of a litany of >=20 > men >=20 >> (all >=20 >>> men! really! can it really be that there are no women here who work >=20 > in >=20 >> the >=20 >>> sex trade??) who are all seemingly trying to justify the institution >=20 > as an >=20 >>> institution. I am not trying to justify it, just trying to defend my >=20 >>> friends who work there from the harsh judgments of their elders... >=20 >>>=20 >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >=20 > guidelines & >=20 >> sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >=20 >=20 >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es >=20 > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live=81: Keep your life in sync. > http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_012009 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 13:09:19 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Bailout In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit but is it not also worthless? Obododimma Oha wrote: > No amount of money can purchase virginity. It is simply priceless. > -- Obododimma. > > On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 2:40 PM, mIEKAL aND wrote: > > >> (this piggybacks nicely on the brothel dissection...) >> >> >> Grad Student Selling Virginity Flooded With Offers >> >> http://cbs13.com/local/selling.virginity.tuition.2.815171.html >> >> A Sacramento State grad trying to make money by auctioning off her >> virginity to help pay for her graduate studies is getting lots of >> offers...and not just for sex. >> >> The 22-year-old who is using the pseudonym Natalie Dylan for safety reasons >> is going through a legal brothel in Nevada to sell her virginity. Dylan told >> CBS13 she's gotten an offer of $250,000. And now she's gotten an offer to >> do a photo spread for Penthouse magazine. >> >> The auction is being handled by the Bunny Ranch in Carson City, Nevada with >> bids coming in through their website. >> >> Dylan says she's already taken a polygraph test to prove her virginal >> status, and is also willing to undergo a medical exam. >> >> "The main purpose of this is to finance a couple things in my life," Dylan >> told CBS13. "I think empowerment of women is picking yourself up and doing >> something on your own to better yourself." >> >> So far, hundreds of offers have already come in including some from male >> virgins. Natalie says she won't give up her virginity to the highest >> bidder. She's also seeking other qualities from her first lover. "I'm >> looking for intelligence and an overall nice person," said Dylan. >> >> Dylan says she ended up in a financial bind, because her stepfather >> allegedly used her college status to fraudulently apply for student loans, >> and then ran off with the money. >> >> Dylan earned her bachelor's degree in women's studies from Sacramento State >> and plans to get her master's at the school beginning in January. >> >> Many Sac State students say they're shocked to hear about their former >> classmate's plan, while others applaud her. >> >> "She's just giving it to some random person. And I just think she should be >> giving it to someone special she loves," said one student on campus. >> >> While another felt that selling her virginity for grad school "is a noble >> reason to get money." >> >> As for Natalie, after claiming to hold on to her virginity for 22 years >> (although the Bunny Ranch website claims she is 21-years-old), she says she >> has a commodity not many people have to sell. >> >> "When I was younger, I wanted 100% romance, possibly even wait for >> marriage. But as I grew up, reality kinda hit. And I think its a >> capitalistic society and I want to capitalize on this," explained Dylan. >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines >> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> > > > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 23:50:29 -0300 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ryan Daley Subject: Re: coMpetition does In-Reply-To: <168735.96458.qm@web46206.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Agree with Troy on this one. On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 4:04 PM, Troy Camplin wrote: > Being eaten alive in a workshop isn't a bad thing. If you can't stand > criticism of your work, you won't improve much as an artist. This isn't to > say that everything in a workshop is golden (it isn't), but you come out > with many perspectives and, if you know what you're really hearing, you can > figure out what's really wrong that needs work among the comments and > criticisms. But CA is right, you do have to be careful to distinguish > between those who wish to help you, and those who are envious and want to > tear you down, to "get rid of the competition." Again, if you're paying > attention, it does become pretty obvious before long. Be on the lookout for > those who come up to you later and apologize for "being so rough" and/or who > offer more suggestions or offer to look at it again after the revision. > Those are the ones who want to help you. They will also more likely be the > good poets. Nasty, antisocial, selfish people do not have the wisdom > necessary to be > great poets. Or even good or mediocre poets. > > Troy Camplin > > > > ________________________________ > From: steve d. dalachinsky > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 12:25:39 AM > Subject: Re: coMpetition does > > here here CA i fully understand being one who has always avoided > workshops and it probably shows > > On Tue, 13 Jan 2009 12:28:19 -0500 CA Conrad > writes: > > Recently I've met a couple of young poets (yet again) who dropped > > out > > of poetry writing workshops because they were, in the words of one > > of > > these poets, "eaten alive." > > > > The conversation isn't new. And it's not a conversation about > > workshops in particular, but competition in a bigger sense. > > > > When is competition good, meaning productive, meaning THE THING > > which > > spurs poets into action in the best sense, in the sense of WANTING > > to > > write as well as they can. > > > > And when is competition ugly, filled with envy and jealousy, > > reaching > > a surprising number of times in my observations to the most > > corrupt, > > wicked, disturbing places people can get to. > > > > The conversation is tricky because I'm always trying to ask, > > investigate with others, WHERE IS THE line between competition when > > it's healthy, and rotten? > > > > There's no doubt in my mind that these two young poets (the latest > > two > > that is, as I've been having this conversation for years now and I > > don't even remember how many times I've had it frankly) love, > > really > > LOVE poetry. We share that, we find when talking that we share > > that > > DRIVE, depositing ourselves in front of bookstore poetry sections, > > and > > libraries, and asking everyone we know who their favorite poets > > are, > > and titles, and never getting enough of this love. Never getting > > enough of it. And not just feeling sad when a bookstore like > > GOTHAM > > BOOKMART closes down but ANGRY! > > > > We're so much alike, and we tell one another what we're most > > excited > > about NOW, and everyone's scratching notes for the library and > > bookstore. How we're NOT alike is that these two young poets are > > VERY > > vulnerable to attack. When they were said to be "eaten alive" I'm > > not > > surprised. And I'm sad, and wish they were MORE LIKE ME and laugh > > at > > the bastards and say, "OH YOU'RE JUST A HATER, YOU JEALOUS PIG!" > > Or, > > "Yeah well, THANKS, being attacked GETS ME UP IN THE MORNING TO > > MAKE > > YOU ANGRY!" It feeds me when someone attacks me, I LOVE it. > > > > But of course a lot of people don't respond well when they're > > attacked, and this makes me sad. I've known poets WHOSE POEMS MADE > > ME > > HAPPY who stopped writing poems because of such attacks. In some > > cases the attacks were from their professors, and the other > > students, > > egged-on by the professors. A FEEDING FRENZY in such a way that > > makes > > me want to puke for poetry. It disgusts me this kind of behavior. > > > > I'm not a professor, but I have conducted poetry workshops, and > > it's > > NOT HARD AT ALL in my opinion to keep the focus about everyone > > (including myself because I want to learn from THEM TOO!) > > investigating poetry together! My focus is about PROCESS, about > > the > > many weird ways to MAKE poetry happen, NOT ABOUT who is writing > > poems > > I think are good, or another person in the workshop thinks are > > good, > > or not. > > > > This is NOT goody-two-shoe bullshit, I'm JUST NOT INTERESTED in > > telling someone whether I like their poems or not when I'm > > conducting > > workshops. And it's none of my business frankly. But to LOVE > > poetry, > > and read it, and create it, and have it in our lives, now THAT is > > something I get very excited about! > > > > But what is that line? When is it crossed from productive and > > beautiful and everyone's excited and MAKING poetry, to that place > > of > > shit? > > > > I'd rather see poems ABOUT that dark spot on the poetry map, than > > see > > it overwhelm another poet. And I mean overwhelm the poet who NEEDS > > to > > be vicious, and of course I mean the poet who gets beaten down. > > > > This conversation cannot happen unless we talk about the bigger > > things > > around it, like, WHY IS EVERYONE NOT UNDERSTANDING EVERYONE IS > > CREATIVE WE ARE ALL CREATIVE THIS IS NOT UP FOR DEBATE. Or is it? > > I've had people tell me this is wrong, that everyone's NOT > > creative. > > But I disagree. > > > > And the conversation needs to be about how the way poets act about > > scarcity and fear that there's not enough NOT ENOUGH magazines NOT > > ENOUGH awards or enough room at the reading series, not enough, is > > really, such an old story about us being animals. > > > > And the conversation needs to be about how to protect ourselves if > > we > > can't withstand the attacks. > > > > And the conversation needs to be about how people don't need to > > attack > > others because THERE IS ENOUGH. > > > > And the conversation needs to be about how art and all our creative > > abilities have become part of a big system in the capital of art > > and > > poetry, and books, and writing programs and teaching and, and, and > > CONSUMPTION, and frankly how, more than ever there's more reasons > > than > > ever for us to feel like we're NOT working hard enough, NOT being > > good > > enough, NOT good enough, so many reasons to feel like shit. > > > > It's a big conversation. But I feel I'm always having it. And > > it's > > one of the most important ones to have some days, especially when I > > meet young poets who have just been destroyed in workshops, made to > > feel worthless. The one poet started crying, and said, literally > > between sobs, "ALL I WANT TO DO IS WRITE POETRY!" It's really > > awful, > > I just want to hit whoever did this to this person, but of course > > that's not helpful. > > > > The line crossed is hard to see because it's different for everyone, > > I > > think. Right? Sometimes I'm not sure I'm right about that, but it > > feels right, doesn't just feel like an answer I've come up with to > > forget thinking about it, because I really want to figure it out, > > if > > it can be figured out. There's too much at stake, at least it > > feels > > that way when I meet YET ANOTHER amazing young poet who becomes > > afraid > > of workshops and other poets and stops writing. > > > > I've met so many amazing poets who stop, for so many reasons they > > stop. The most common reason though is that they get worn out from > > the struggle of dealing with many hungry egos. And their own > > hungry > > ego. It goes back to the discussion about why we're writing, and > > what > > has writing become in this world for us? > > > > CAConrad > > -- > > PhillySound: new poetry http://PhillySound.blogspot.com > > > > THE BOOK OF FRANK by CAConrad http://CAConrad.blogspot.com > > > > ================================== > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:26:19 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Paul Nelson Subject: Hugo House Executive Director MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Richard Hugo House, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization located in Seattle,= =0AWashington, is seeking a full-time executive director.=0AAbout Richard H= ugo House=0AThe vision for Hugo House was conceived around a kitchen table = by three smart women=97an emblematic beginning for an organization that pri= des itself on creativity and intelligence without pretention. Eleven years = later, the ethos hasn=92t changed=97we present world-class literary program= ming within the well lived-in (some might say =93funky=94) walls of a comfo= rtable Victorian House.=0AOur mission is to promote the literary arts as a = vital part of our culture and community. We provide writers of all ages and= backgrounds with the resources they need, connect audiences with the world= of writing, and foster the creation of new work. At Hugo House we believe = that the impulse to imagine and create is innate and powerful, and we are m= otivated by the overarching convictions that literature does matter, that i= deas can change the world, and that nurturing writers is the most important= work we can do.=0ATo this end we offer classes, residencies and events tha= t reflect the broad interests of our community as well as the wide spectrum= of forms and genres that exist in the literary arts.=0A=95 Our classes are= taught by well regarded professional writers and teachers, and cover the g= amut from reading classes on the classics, to writing workshops on anything= from ekphrasic poetry to spoken word to full-length memoirs. We also offer= a number of vibrant programs for youth.=0A=95 We are dedicated to promotin= g the careers of local writers through residencies that provide stipends, t= eaching opportunities and incentives to produce their own. We also offer gr= anting programs such as The Writers Fund, which provides co-sponsorships to= individuals and groups to produce their own events=97anything from a book = launch party to a staged reading of a new play in our Cabaret space.=0A=95 = Through events such as the Hugo Literary Series, we commission both local a= uthors and those with national reputations, such as Tim O=92Brien, Rick Moo= dy, Marie Howe, Sherman Alexie and Pam Houston, to create original work; we= offer local audiences the opportunity to interact with the writers through= readings and classes.=0ALike the building in which we are located, the Hug= o House staff is unpretentious and a little eccentric. We take the work we = do and the community we serve very seriously, but not ourselves. We are pro= ne to strong coffee, irreverent humor and passionate opinions about everyth= ing, especially literature. We appreciate teamwork but don=92t relish hiera= rchy. We are good at our jobs and respect competence in others. We host ama= zing events and gatherings. We like to think this is the kind of place Rich= ard Hugo would have come to.=0AFor additional information about the organiz= ation, please visit the Hugo House=0AWeb site: www.hugohouse.org.=0AExecuti= ve Director Job Announcement=0AKey Responsibilities=0ALeadership=0AI=0An co= llaboration with the staff and board, refine the vision and philosophies of= the organization;=0AD=0Aevelop and lead short- and long-term strategic and= business planning efforts, with a focus on=0Aorganizational sustainability= ;=0AEncourage innovation and manage competing priorities;=0AServe as the pr= imary spokesperson for the organization on local, regional, national, and i= nternational levels;=0AEnsure that the organization has the human, financia= l and operational resources it needs to fulfill the mission; and=0An concer= t with key supporters, develop a long-term facility plan.=0AManagement=0ASu= stain a positive and productive work environment that attracts and retains = top quality staff and volunteers;=0AHire, motivate, support and evaluate fo= ur direct reports (program director, development director,=0Afinance manage= r and facilities manager);=0AAssume responsibility for budgeting, financial= forecasting and fiscal oversight;=0An partnership with the finance manager= , ensure that financial records are useful, accurate and up-to-date;=0AOver= see human resources management, including the development of sound personne= l policies and practices; and=0AEnsure compliance with federal, state and l= ocal regulations.=0AFundraising=0An partnership with the development direct= or, craft the overall fundraising strategy for the organization;=0ACultivat= e and maintain relationships with major donors, foundations and corporate s= ponsors; and=0ACreate opportunities to engage new donors/members and sustai= n existing supporters.=0AProgram=0An partnership with the program director,= develop strategies for sustaining and growing effective programs;=0AExplor= e new program development opportunities; and=0AEnsure that ongoing programs= are evaluated thoroughly.=0ABoard relations and development=0AProvide boar= d members with the information, tools and resources that will enable them t= o govern and support=0Athe organization in a meaningful way;=0An partnershi= p with the board development committee, recruit and orient new board member= s; and=0AServe as the primary conduit between board members and other stake= holders (staff members, volunteers,=0Asupporters and those served by the or= ganization).=0AQualifications=0AA demonstrated passion for the arts and a l= ove of literature;=0AA proven ability to lead and mentor staff with integri= ty, enthusiasm and a commitment to results;=0AA minimum of four years of pr= ogressively responsible management and supervisory experience;=0AStrong com= munication, listening and relationship-building skills;=0AA demonstrated ab= ility to raise funds from a range of sources, most notably individual donor= s and foundations;=0AA solid grasp of human resources and financial managem= ent practices and concepts;=0AAn understanding of marketing, outreach and c= ommunications concepts;=0AAn appreciation for collaborative decision-making= processes coupled with the ability to be decisive when required;=0AKnowled= ge of nonprofit board structures and principles of governance;=0AThe abilit= y to work a flexible schedule to accommodate the organization=92s schedule = of events; and=0A=0AAn appreciation for community-based organizations and t= he organization=92s relationship with the greater=0ASeattle community.=0A= =0ACompensation=0AThe salary for this position is dependent on qualificatio= ns and experience. Compensation includes medical and=0Adental insurance and= generous leave time.=0A=0ATo Apply=0A=0APlease submit a cover letter, resu= me and contact information (phone and e-mail) for at least three profession= al references. Submit your materials electronically, in Microsoft Word or A= dobe PDF format, to the Executive Director Search Committee, EDSearch@hugoh= ouse.org. This position will remain open until filled.=0A=0AIf you have any= questions=0APlease contact Cory Sbarbaro, interim executive director, at e= xecutivedirector@hugohouse.org=0Aor (206) 322-7030, ext. 102. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:36:54 -0800 Reply-To: kathrynlpringle@yahoo.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Kate Pringle Subject: Book Release Party: Pringle and Boykoff at The Green Arcade in SF In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Who: kathryn l. pringle and Jules Boykoff When: Thursday, 5 February at 8 p.m. Where: The Green Arcade, 1680 Market Street, San Francisco =A0(415) 431 680= 0 Please join us on Thursday, 5 February at 8 p.m. to celebrate the release o= f two new books of poetry from Factory School: RIGHT NEW BIOLOGY by kathryn l. pringle and Hegemonic Love Potion by Jules = Boykoff kathryn l. pringle is a graduate of the MFA program at San Francisco State University. Her book, RIGHT NEW BIOLOGY, is just out from Factory School/Heretical Text Series. She is the author of The Stills (Duration Press) and Temper & Felicity are Lovers (TAXT). Her poems can be read in The Denver Quarterly, Fence, 14 hills, 580 Split, and Sidebrow, among others. She is an editor at the literary magazine minor/american, and the co-founder of the minor american reading series in Durham, N.C., now funded by Duke University. Jules Boykoff is the author of Hegemonic Love Potion (Factory School, 2009), The Slow Motion Underneath (with Jim Dine, Steidl Editions, 2008), and Once Upon a Neoliberal Rocket Badge (Edge Books, 2006). His political writing includes Landscapes of Dissent: Guerrilla Poetry & Public Space=A0(co-authored with Kaia Sand) (Palm Press, 2008), Beyond Bullets: The Suppression of Dissent in the United States=A0(AK Press, 2007), and The Suppression of Dissent: How the State and Mass Media Squelch USAmerican Social Movements=A0(Routledge, 2006). Boykoff lives in Portland, Oregon. For more info, see: www.thegreenarcade.com http://kathrynlpringle.blogspot.com/ order my book: http://www.spdbooks.org/root/pages/serp.asp?Title=3D&submit=3DSearch&Author= =3Dpringle READINGS: 1.24.09 DETAILS TBD @ the PINHOOK=20 Durham, NC 2.5.09 @ 4:30 w/ Jules Boykoff @ The Poetry Center // San Francisco State University San Francisco, CA March Date Forthcoming David Foster Wallace party=20 Asheville, NC 5.2.09 Providence, RI 5.16.09 So-And-So Reading Series @ 8pm Raleigh, NC --- On Wed, 1/14/09, POETICS automatic digest system wrote: From: POETICS automatic digest system Subject: POETICS Digest - 13 Jan 2009 to 14 Jan 2009 (#2009-12) To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Wednesday, January 14, 2009, 9:00 PM Being eaten alive in a workshop isn't a bad thing. If you can't stand criticism of your work, you won't improve much as an artist. This isn't to say that everything in a workshop is golden (it isn't), but you come out with many perspectives and, if you know what you're really hearing, you can figure out what's really wrong that needs work among the comments and criticisms. But CA is right, you do have to be careful to distinguish betwe= en those who wish to help you, and those who are envious and want to tear you = down, to "get rid of the competition." Again, if you're paying attention, it does become pretty obvious before long. Be on the lookout for those who come up to you later and apologize for "being so rough" and/or who offer more suggestions or offer to look at it again after the revision. Those are the ones who want to help you. They will also more like= ly be the good poets. Nasty, antisocial, selfish people do not have the wisdom necessary to be great poets. Or even good or mediocre poets. Troy Camplin ________________________________ From: steve d. dalachinsky To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 12:25:39 AM Subject: Re: coMpetition does here here CA i fully understand being one who has always avoided workshops and it probably shows =20 On Tue, 13 Jan 2009 12:28:19 -0500 CA Conrad writes: > Recently I've met a couple of young poets (yet again) who dropped=20 > out > of poetry writing workshops because they were, in the words of one=20 > of > these poets, "eaten alive." >=20 > The conversation isn't new. And it's not a conversation about > workshops in particular, but competition in a bigger sense. >=20 > When is competition good, meaning productive, meaning THE THING=20 > which > spurs poets into action in the best sense, in the sense of WANTING=20 > to > write as well as they can. >=20 > And when is competition ugly, filled with envy and jealousy,=20 > reaching > a surprising number of times in my observations to the most=20 > corrupt, > wicked, disturbing places people can get to. >=20 > The conversation is tricky because I'm always trying to ask, > investigate with others, WHERE IS THE line between competition when > it's healthy, and rotten? >=20 > There's no doubt in my mind that these two young poets (the latest=20 > two > that is, as I've been having this conversation for years now and I > don't even remember how many times I've had it frankly) love,=20 > really > LOVE poetry. We share that, we find when talking that we share=20 > that > DRIVE, depositing ourselves in front of bookstore poetry sections,=20 > and > libraries, and asking everyone we know who their favorite poets=20 > are, > and titles, and never getting enough of this love. Never getting > enough of it. And not just feeling sad when a bookstore like=20 > GOTHAM > BOOKMART closes down but ANGRY! >=20 > We're so much alike, and we tell one another what we're most=20 > excited > about NOW, and everyone's scratching notes for the library and > bookstore. How we're NOT alike is that these two young poets are=20 > VERY > vulnerable to attack. When they were said to be "eaten alive" I'm=20 > not > surprised. And I'm sad, and wish they were MORE LIKE ME and laugh=20 > at > the bastards and say, "OH YOU'RE JUST A HATER, YOU JEALOUS PIG!" =20 > Or, > "Yeah well, THANKS, being attacked GETS ME UP IN THE MORNING TO=20 > MAKE > YOU ANGRY!" It feeds me when someone attacks me, I LOVE it. >=20 > But of course a lot of people don't respond well when they're > attacked, and this makes me sad. I've known poets WHOSE POEMS MADE=20 > ME > HAPPY who stopped writing poems because of such attacks. In some > cases the attacks were from their professors, and the other=20 > students, > egged-on by the professors. A FEEDING FRENZY in such a way that=20 > makes > me want to puke for poetry. It disgusts me this kind of behavior. >=20 > I'm not a professor, but I have conducted poetry workshops, and=20 > it's > NOT HARD AT ALL in my opinion to keep the focus about everyone > (including myself because I want to learn from THEM TOO!) > investigating poetry together! My focus is about PROCESS, about=20 > the > many weird ways to MAKE poetry happen, NOT ABOUT who is writing=20 > poems > I think are good, or another person in the workshop thinks are=20 > good, > or not. >=20 > This is NOT goody-two-shoe bullshit, I'm JUST NOT INTERESTED in > telling someone whether I like their poems or not when I'm=20 > conducting > workshops. And it's none of my business frankly. But to LOVE=20 > poetry, > and read it, and create it, and have it in our lives, now THAT is > something I get very excited about! >=20 > But what is that line? When is it crossed from productive and > beautiful and everyone's excited and MAKING poetry, to that place=20 > of > shit? >=20 > I'd rather see poems ABOUT that dark spot on the poetry map, than=20 > see > it overwhelm another poet. And I mean overwhelm the poet who NEEDS=20 > to > be vicious, and of course I mean the poet who gets beaten down. >=20 > This conversation cannot happen unless we talk about the bigger=20 > things > around it, like, WHY IS EVERYONE NOT UNDERSTANDING EVERYONE IS > CREATIVE WE ARE ALL CREATIVE THIS IS NOT UP FOR DEBATE. Or is it? > I've had people tell me this is wrong, that everyone's NOT=20 > creative. > But I disagree. >=20 > And the conversation needs to be about how the way poets act about > scarcity and fear that there's not enough NOT ENOUGH magazines NOT > ENOUGH awards or enough room at the reading series, not enough, is > really, such an old story about us being animals. >=20 > And the conversation needs to be about how to protect ourselves if=20 > we > can't withstand the attacks. >=20 > And the conversation needs to be about how people don't need to=20 > attack > others because THERE IS ENOUGH. >=20 > And the conversation needs to be about how art and all our creative > abilities have become part of a big system in the capital of art=20 > and > poetry, and books, and writing programs and teaching and, and, and > CONSUMPTION, and frankly how, more than ever there's more reasons=20 > than > ever for us to feel like we're NOT working hard enough, NOT being=20 > good > enough, NOT good enough, so many reasons to feel like shit. >=20 > It's a big conversation. But I feel I'm always having it. And=20 > it's > one of the most important ones to have some days, especially when I > meet young poets who have just been destroyed in workshops, made to > feel worthless. The one poet started crying, and said, literally > between sobs, "ALL I WANT TO DO IS WRITE POETRY!" It's really=20 > awful, > I just want to hit whoever did this to this person, but of course > that's not helpful. >=20 > The line crossed is hard to see because it's different for everyone,=20 > I > think. Right? Sometimes I'm not sure I'm right about that, but it > feels right, doesn't just feel like an answer I've come up with to > forget thinking about it, because I really want to figure it out,=20 > if > it can be figured out. There's too much at stake, at least it=20 > feels > that way when I meet YET ANOTHER amazing young poet who becomes=20 > afraid > of workshops and other poets and stops writing. >=20 > I've met so many amazing poets who stop, for so many reasons they > stop. The most common reason though is that they get worn out from > the struggle of dealing with many hungry egos. And their own=20 > hungry > ego. It goes back to the discussion about why we're writing, and=20 > what > has writing become in this world for us? >=20 > CAConrad > --=20 > PhillySound: new poetry http://PhillySound.blogspot.com >=20 > THE BOOK OF FRANK by CAConrad http://CAConrad.blogspot.com >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check=20 > guidelines & sub/unsub info:=20 > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >=20 >=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 13:37:33 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=E9amas_Cain?= Subject: The literary blog of Peter Ganick MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline _______________ There are new texts on the literary blog of Peter Ganick ... http://pganickz.livejournal.com/ ... works by Dennis Barone, John M. Bennett, Andrew Burke, Jeff Harrison, Halvard Johnson, Jukka-Pekka Kervinen, Zachary Scott Lawrence, Jim Leftwich, Sheila E. Murphy, Lanny Quarles, Gerald Schwartz, Lawrence Upton, Peter Ganick himself, and S=E9amas Cain. http://pganickz.livejournal.com/ With permafrost regards, S=E9amas Cain http://alazanto.org/seamascain http://seamascain.writernetwork.com http://www.mnartists.org/Seamas_Cain _______________ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 15:06:44 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Bailout In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Ah but not necessarily for the seller. Mark At 04:02 AM 1/15/2009, you wrote: >No amount of money can purchase virginity. It is simply priceless. >-- Obododimma. > >On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 2:40 PM, mIEKAL aND wrote: > > > (this piggybacks nicely on the brothel dissection...) > > > > > > Grad Student Selling Virginity Flooded With Offers > > > > http://cbs13.com/local/selling.virginity.tuition.2.815171.html > > > > A Sacramento State grad trying to make money by auctioning off her > > virginity to help pay for her graduate studies is getting lots of > > offers...and not just for sex. > > > > The 22-year-old who is using the pseudonym Natalie Dylan for safety reasons > > is going through a legal brothel in Nevada to sell her virginity. > Dylan told > > CBS13 she's gotten an offer of $250,000. And now she's gotten an offer to > > do a photo spread for Penthouse magazine. > > > > The auction is being handled by the Bunny Ranch in Carson City, Nevada with > > bids coming in through their website. > > > > Dylan says she's already taken a polygraph test to prove her virginal > > status, and is also willing to undergo a medical exam. > > > > "The main purpose of this is to finance a couple things in my life," Dylan > > told CBS13. "I think empowerment of women is picking yourself up and doing > > something on your own to better yourself." > > > > So far, hundreds of offers have already come in including some from male > > virgins. Natalie says she won't give up her virginity to the highest > > bidder. She's also seeking other qualities from her first lover. "I'm > > looking for intelligence and an overall nice person," said Dylan. > > > > Dylan says she ended up in a financial bind, because her stepfather > > allegedly used her college status to fraudulently apply for student loans, > > and then ran off with the money. > > > > Dylan earned her bachelor's degree in women's studies from Sacramento State > > and plans to get her master's at the school beginning in January. > > > > Many Sac State students say they're shocked to hear about their former > > classmate's plan, while others applaud her. > > > > "She's just giving it to some random person. And I just think she should be > > giving it to someone special she loves," said one student on campus. > > > > While another felt that selling her virginity for grad school "is a noble > > reason to get money." > > > > As for Natalie, after claiming to hold on to her virginity for 22 years > > (although the Bunny Ranch website claims she is 21-years-old), she says she > > has a commodity not many people have to sell. > > > > "When I was younger, I wanted 100% romance, possibly even wait for > > marriage. But as I grew up, reality kinda hit. And I think its a > > capitalistic society and I want to capitalize on this," explained Dylan. > > > > ================================== > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > > >-- >Obododimma Oha >Senior Lecturer in Stylistics & Semiotics >Dept. of English >University of Ibadan >Nigeria > >& > >Fellow, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies >University of Ibadan > >Phone: +234 803 333 1330; > +234 805 350 6604. > >================================== >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:09:05 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Tony Trigilio Organization: http://www.starve.org Subject: Court Green and Fence: Off-Site AWP Reading (Feb. 12, 6:30 p.m.) Comments: To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit COURT GREEN and FENCE Off-Site Reading at AWP Thursday, February 12, 2009 6:30pm - 9:00pm Film Row Cinema, Columbia College Chicago 1104 S. Wabash (8th floor) COURT GREEN 6 (Letters Dossier) and FENCE BOOKS celebrate their publication releases with a reading and reception in conjunction with the Association of Writers and Writing Programs (AWP) Conference. Contributors will read selections from COURT GREEN and FENCE. Readers include William Olsen, Sharon Dolin, Julie Carr, Carrie Etter, Charles Jensen, Elizabeth Robinson, Sasha Steensen, James Shea, Brian Young, and Rodrigo Toscano, among others. A reception follows the readings. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 13:37:11 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jordan Stempleman Subject: Re: name of French poet In-Reply-To: <00d101c97734$ec1d07a0$c45716e0$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ponge.> Date: Thu=2C 15 Jan 2009 11:15:53 -0600> From: johncunningham366@MT= S.NET> Subject: name of French poet> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> > I'= m trying to recall the name of the French poet who referred to his poems> a= s "promes"?> > John Herbert Cunningham> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> T= he Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines = & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live=99: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_012009= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:37:37 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: Can "nature" poetry be postmodern/post-structural? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Yes, Steve, it's everywhere as others have also remarked. What puzzled me was this statement: "Contemporary urban poets have moved away from Wordsworth and the Romantics, whose metaphors were shaped by sublime natural forces, whose rhythms were so often set by the cycles of nature. The newer language of art emanates from the human-built environment, from the streets, from computers. This urban or electronic expression of creativity speaks to and for modern ears and eyes, and it has its own rhythms and metaphors." (Last Child In The Woods...Richard Louv) Experts in one field often feel qualified to make uninformed comments regarding other fields. It's obvious there are environments of poetry he's never dared to wander. Mary Jo -- http://thisshiningwound.blogspot.com/ http://apophisdeconstructingabsurdity.blogspot.com/ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:41:52 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: coMpetition does In-Reply-To: <80f2fed0901150817n39b48470oa0892e4f8465df6a@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) On Jan 15, 2009, at 10:17 AM, gabriel siegel wrote: > Workshops are good things-- > > Whatever mediocrity writes, is what you shouldn't. Easy for *you* to say. Hal "I don't know what music is." --Ludvig van Beethoven (who only wrote his best stuff) Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 20:50:10 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: laura oliver Subject: Re: name of French poet In-Reply-To: <00d101c97734$ec1d07a0$c45716e0$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm wondering if it was Pierre Reverdy? > Date: Thu=2C 15 Jan 2009 11:15:53 -0600 > From: johncunningham366@MTS.NET > Subject: name of French poet > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >=20 > I'm trying to recall the name of the French poet who referred to his poem= s > as "promes"? >=20 > John Herbert Cunningham >=20 >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live=99 Hotmail=AE: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail.=20 http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_hm_justgotbetter_h= owitworks_012009= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 15:59:35 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Charlotte Mandel Subject: Re: name of French poet In-Reply-To: <00d101c97734$ec1d07a0$c45716e0$@net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Would it be Francis Ponge? Charlotte On Jan 15, 2009, at 12:15 PM, John Cunningham wrote: I'm trying to recall the name of the French poet who referred to his poems as "promes"? John Herbert Cunningham ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 22:50:03 +0100 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Obododimma Oha Subject: Re: Bailout In-Reply-To: <496F89DF.6070207@umn.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sometimes it is better to lock one's doors and throw away the keys, even when there's nothing of great value in the house. -- Obododimma. On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 8:09 PM, Maria Damon wrote: > but is it not also worthless? > > > Obododimma Oha wrote: > >> No amount of money can purchase virginity. It is simply priceless. >> -- Obododimma. >> >> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 2:40 PM, mIEKAL aND >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> (this piggybacks nicely on the brothel dissection...) >>> >>> >>> Grad Student Selling Virginity Flooded With Offers >>> >>> http://cbs13.com/local/selling.virginity.tuition.2.815171.html >>> >>> A Sacramento State grad trying to make money by auctioning off her >>> virginity to help pay for her graduate studies is getting lots of >>> offers...and not just for sex. >>> >>> The 22-year-old who is using the pseudonym Natalie Dylan for safety >>> reasons >>> is going through a legal brothel in Nevada to sell her virginity. Dylan >>> told >>> CBS13 she's gotten an offer of $250,000. And now she's gotten an offer >>> to >>> do a photo spread for Penthouse magazine. >>> >>> The auction is being handled by the Bunny Ranch in Carson City, Nevada >>> with >>> bids coming in through their website. >>> >>> Dylan says she's already taken a polygraph test to prove her virginal >>> status, and is also willing to undergo a medical exam. >>> >>> "The main purpose of this is to finance a couple things in my life," >>> Dylan >>> told CBS13. "I think empowerment of women is picking yourself up and >>> doing >>> something on your own to better yourself." >>> >>> So far, hundreds of offers have already come in including some from male >>> virgins. Natalie says she won't give up her virginity to the highest >>> bidder. She's also seeking other qualities from her first lover. "I'm >>> looking for intelligence and an overall nice person," said Dylan. >>> >>> Dylan says she ended up in a financial bind, because her stepfather >>> allegedly used her college status to fraudulently apply for student >>> loans, >>> and then ran off with the money. >>> >>> Dylan earned her bachelor's degree in women's studies from Sacramento >>> State >>> and plans to get her master's at the school beginning in January. >>> >>> Many Sac State students say they're shocked to hear about their former >>> classmate's plan, while others applaud her. >>> >>> "She's just giving it to some random person. And I just think she should >>> be >>> giving it to someone special she loves," said one student on campus. >>> >>> While another felt that selling her virginity for grad school "is a noble >>> reason to get money." >>> >>> As for Natalie, after claiming to hold on to her virginity for 22 years >>> (although the Bunny Ranch website claims she is 21-years-old), she says >>> she >>> has a commodity not many people have to sell. >>> >>> "When I was younger, I wanted 100% romance, possibly even wait for >>> marriage. But as I grew up, reality kinda hit. And I think its a >>> capitalistic society and I want to capitalize on this," explained Dylan. >>> >>> ================================== >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>> guidelines >>> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > -- Obododimma Oha Senior Lecturer in Stylistics & Semiotics Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & Fellow, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 13:51:28 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: joseph bradshaw Subject: Spare Room Turns 100! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Spare Room's 100th Reading To celebrate seven years of presenting experimental writing in Portland, Spare Room organizers past and present (with friends) will read 100 Poems by 100 Poets from the Past 100 Years Sunday, January 25 starting at 2:00 pm ending when we finish (6:00? 7:00?) Free admission Gallery Homeland (at the Ford Building) 2505 SE 11th Avenue Portland, OR 97214 www.galleryhomeland.org www.flim.com/spareroom From Helen Adam to Louis Zukofsky, from Futurism to Personism, from Hiroshima to Blackhawk Island, from Polish counts to Peruvian communists, from Dada to MoMA, from prisoners of war to secret agents, from the mimeograph to the blog . . . come hear a small but representative slice of the extraordinary range of poetries practiced in the past century! Readers will include: David Abel Meredith Blankinship Joseph Bradshaw Alicia Cohen Gale Czerski Laura Feldman Patrick Hartigan Lindsay Hill Maryrose Larkin Sam Lohmann Jesse Morse Mark Owens & crew* Chris Piuma Dan Raphael James Yeary * sound poetry performers: Leo & Anna Daedalus Tony Christy Linda Austin Lisa Radon with Neville, Molly, & Oskar and many more . . . Reading poems by: Helen Adam Charles Amirkhanian Guillaume Apollinaire Hugo Ball Ted Berrigan Mei-mei Berssenbrugge Robin Blaser Nicole Brossard Basil Bunting Anne Carson Constantine Cavafy Joseph Ceravolo Theresa Hak Kyung Cha Inger Christiansen Robert Creeley Beverly Dahlen Robert Desnos H.D. Francois Dufrene Robert Duncan Russell Edson Jennifer Crystal Fang-Chien Kevin Goodan Linda Gregg Bill Griffiths Barbara Guest Carla Harryman Dick Higgins Ake Hodell Fanny Howe Susan Howe Philip Jenks Karen Kelley Aleksei Kruchenyk Gerrit Lansing Jackson Mac Low Bernadette Mayer Marianne Moore Christian Morgenstern Harryette Mullen Susan Smith Nash bp nichol Lorine Niedecker Alice Notley Frank O"Hara George Oppen Michael Palmer Bob Perelman Dennis Phillips Laura Riding Joan Retallack Gerhard R=FChm Diana Saenz Frank Samperi Aram Saroyan Kurt Schwitters David Shapiro Charles Sharpe Ron Silliman Gustaf Sobin Jack Spicer Gertrude Stein Wallace Stevens Rhett Stuart Cole Swenson John Taggart Nathaniel Tarn Alberta Turner C=E9sar Vallejo Lew Welch Hannah Weiner Jonathan Williams William Carlos Williams C.D. Wright Araki Yasusada Louis Zukofsky and many more! =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 22:54:45 +0100 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Obododimma Oha Subject: Re: Bailout In-Reply-To: <461A90E1-C66E-48C2-BBA6-E41F94E51CD6@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Certainly. The price of life is, perhaps, death. And the price of virginity is that you lack the experience. The price is not in dollars. -- Obododimma. On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 7:29 PM, Diego Navarro w= rote: > If virginity is priceless, so is life itself. Should then all the materia= l > resources of society redirected to medical research? Arts-related are an > gigantic waste, in that case. > > Everything has a price. > > > On 15/01/2009, at 07:02, Obododimma Oha wrote: > > No amount of money can purchase virginity. It is simply priceless. >> -- Obododimma. >> >> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 2:40 PM, mIEKAL aND >> wrote: >> >> (this piggybacks nicely on the brothel dissection...) >>> >>> >>> Grad Student Selling Virginity Flooded With Offers >>> >>> http://cbs13.com/local/selling.virginity.tuition.2.815171.html >>> >>> A Sacramento State grad trying to make money by auctioning off her >>> virginity to help pay for her graduate studies is getting lots of >>> offers...and not just for sex. >>> >>> The 22-year-old who is using the pseudonym Natalie Dylan for safety >>> reasons >>> is going through a legal brothel in Nevada to sell her virginity. Dylan >>> told >>> CBS13 she's gotten an offer of $250,000. And now she's gotten an offer >>> to >>> do a photo spread for Penthouse magazine. >>> >>> The auction is being handled by the Bunny Ranch in Carson City, Nevada >>> with >>> bids coming in through their website. >>> >>> Dylan says she's already taken a polygraph test to prove her virginal >>> status, and is also willing to undergo a medical exam. >>> >>> "The main purpose of this is to finance a couple things in my life," >>> Dylan >>> told CBS13. "I think empowerment of women is picking yourself up and >>> doing >>> something on your own to better yourself." >>> >>> So far, hundreds of offers have already come in including some from mal= e >>> virgins. Natalie says she won't give up her virginity to the highest >>> bidder. She's also seeking other qualities from her first lover. "I'm >>> looking for intelligence and an overall nice person," said Dylan. >>> >>> Dylan says she ended up in a financial bind, because her stepfather >>> allegedly used her college status to fraudulently apply for student >>> loans, >>> and then ran off with the money. >>> >>> Dylan earned her bachelor's degree in women's studies from Sacramento >>> State >>> and plans to get her master's at the school beginning in January. >>> >>> Many Sac State students say they're shocked to hear about their former >>> classmate's plan, while others applaud her. >>> >>> "She's just giving it to some random person. And I just think she shoul= d >>> be >>> giving it to someone special she loves," said one student on campus. >>> >>> While another felt that selling her virginity for grad school "is a nob= le >>> reason to get money." >>> >>> As for Natalie, after claiming to hold on to her virginity for 22 years >>> (although the Bunny Ranch website claims she is 21-years-old), she says >>> she >>> has a commodity not many people have to sell. >>> >>> "When I was younger, I wanted 100% romance, possibly even wait for >>> marriage. But as I grew up, reality kinda hit. And I think its a >>> capitalistic society and I want to capitalize on this," explained Dylan= . >>> >>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>> guidelines >>> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Obododimma Oha >> Senior Lecturer in Stylistics & Semiotics >> Dept. of English >> University of Ibadan >> Nigeria >> >> & >> >> Fellow, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies >> University of Ibadan >> >> Phone: +234 803 333 1330; >> +234 805 350 6604. >> >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > > -- > Diego Navarro > FGV Projetos > (21) 2559-5620 > > "Escrever n=E3o tem a ver com significados, mas com agrimensura e > cartografia, inclusive de terras desconhecidas" (Deleuze & Guattari, "Mil > Plat=F4s") > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > --=20 Obododimma Oha Senior Lecturer in Stylistics & Semiotics Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & Fellow, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 13:56:07 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: Bailout In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20090115150609.06e12558@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I had a friend in high school who claimed to have paid someone to take his off of his hands. My understanding is that's not an uncommon practice, so why not the other way around? On Jan 15, 2009, at 12:06 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > Ah but not necessarily for the seller. > > Mark > > At 04:02 AM 1/15/2009, you wrote: >> No amount of money can purchase virginity. It is simply priceless. >> -- Obododimma. >> >> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 2:40 PM, mIEKAL aND >> wrote: >> >> > (this piggybacks nicely on the brothel dissection...) >> > >> > >> > Grad Student Selling Virginity Flooded With Offers >> > >> > http://cbs13.com/local/selling.virginity.tuition.2.815171.html >> > >> > A Sacramento State grad trying to make money by auctioning off her >> > virginity to help pay for her graduate studies is getting lots of >> > offers...and not just for sex. >> > >> > The 22-year-old who is using the pseudonym Natalie Dylan for >> safety reasons >> > is going through a legal brothel in Nevada to sell her >> virginity. Dylan told >> > CBS13 she's gotten an offer of $250,000. And now she's gotten >> an offer to >> > do a photo spread for Penthouse magazine. >> > >> > The auction is being handled by the Bunny Ranch in Carson City, >> Nevada with >> > bids coming in through their website. >> > >> > Dylan says she's already taken a polygraph test to prove her >> virginal >> > status, and is also willing to undergo a medical exam. >> > >> > "The main purpose of this is to finance a couple things in my >> life," Dylan >> > told CBS13. "I think empowerment of women is picking yourself >> up and doing >> > something on your own to better yourself." >> > >> > So far, hundreds of offers have already come in including some >> from male >> > virgins. Natalie says she won't give up her virginity to the >> highest >> > bidder. She's also seeking other qualities from her first >> lover. "I'm >> > looking for intelligence and an overall nice person," said Dylan. >> > >> > Dylan says she ended up in a financial bind, because her stepfather >> > allegedly used her college status to fraudulently apply for >> student loans, >> > and then ran off with the money. >> > >> > Dylan earned her bachelor's degree in women's studies from >> Sacramento State >> > and plans to get her master's at the school beginning in January. >> > >> > Many Sac State students say they're shocked to hear about their >> former >> > classmate's plan, while others applaud her. >> > >> > "She's just giving it to some random person. And I just think >> she should be >> > giving it to someone special she loves," said one student on >> campus. >> > >> > While another felt that selling her virginity for grad school >> "is a noble >> > reason to get money." >> > >> > As for Natalie, after claiming to hold on to her virginity for >> 22 years >> > (although the Bunny Ranch website claims she is 21-years-old), >> she says she >> > has a commodity not many people have to sell. >> > >> > "When I was younger, I wanted 100% romance, possibly even wait for >> > marriage. But as I grew up, reality kinda hit. And I think its a >> > capitalistic society and I want to capitalize on this," >> explained Dylan. >> > >> > ================================== >> > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines >> > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Obododimma Oha >> Senior Lecturer in Stylistics & Semiotics >> Dept. of English >> University of Ibadan >> Nigeria >> >> & >> >> Fellow, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies >> University of Ibadan >> >> Phone: +234 803 333 1330; >> +234 805 350 6604. >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/ >> welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/ > welcome.html Jason Quackenbush jfq@myuw.net ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 22:22:01 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Tomas Weber Subject: Re: name of French poet In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Francis Ponge 2009/1/15 laura oliver : > I'm wondering if it was Pierre Reverdy? > >> Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:15:53 -0600 >> From: johncunningham366@MTS.NET >> Subject: name of French poet >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> >> I'm trying to recall the name of the French poet who referred to his poe= ms >> as "promes"? >> >> John Herbert Cunningham >> >> >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guideli= nes & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live=99 Hotmail(R): Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail. > http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_hm_justgotbetter= _howitworks_012009 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:27:53 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Bailout In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit what a great response! but if one is inside the house, does it make one one's own prisoner? Obododimma Oha wrote: > Sometimes it is better to lock one's doors and throw away the keys, even > when there's nothing of great value in the house. > -- Obododimma. > > > > On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 8:09 PM, Maria Damon wrote: > > >> but is it not also worthless? >> >> >> Obododimma Oha wrote: >> >> >>> No amount of money can purchase virginity. It is simply priceless. >>> -- Obododimma. >>> >>> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 2:40 PM, mIEKAL aND >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> (this piggybacks nicely on the brothel dissection...) >>>> >>>> >>>> Grad Student Selling Virginity Flooded With Offers >>>> >>>> http://cbs13.com/local/selling.virginity.tuition.2.815171.html >>>> >>>> A Sacramento State grad trying to make money by auctioning off her >>>> virginity to help pay for her graduate studies is getting lots of >>>> offers...and not just for sex. >>>> >>>> The 22-year-old who is using the pseudonym Natalie Dylan for safety >>>> reasons >>>> is going through a legal brothel in Nevada to sell her virginity. Dylan >>>> told >>>> CBS13 she's gotten an offer of $250,000. And now she's gotten an offer >>>> to >>>> do a photo spread for Penthouse magazine. >>>> >>>> The auction is being handled by the Bunny Ranch in Carson City, Nevada >>>> with >>>> bids coming in through their website. >>>> >>>> Dylan says she's already taken a polygraph test to prove her virginal >>>> status, and is also willing to undergo a medical exam. >>>> >>>> "The main purpose of this is to finance a couple things in my life," >>>> Dylan >>>> told CBS13. "I think empowerment of women is picking yourself up and >>>> doing >>>> something on your own to better yourself." >>>> >>>> So far, hundreds of offers have already come in including some from male >>>> virgins. Natalie says she won't give up her virginity to the highest >>>> bidder. She's also seeking other qualities from her first lover. "I'm >>>> looking for intelligence and an overall nice person," said Dylan. >>>> >>>> Dylan says she ended up in a financial bind, because her stepfather >>>> allegedly used her college status to fraudulently apply for student >>>> loans, >>>> and then ran off with the money. >>>> >>>> Dylan earned her bachelor's degree in women's studies from Sacramento >>>> State >>>> and plans to get her master's at the school beginning in January. >>>> >>>> Many Sac State students say they're shocked to hear about their former >>>> classmate's plan, while others applaud her. >>>> >>>> "She's just giving it to some random person. And I just think she should >>>> be >>>> giving it to someone special she loves," said one student on campus. >>>> >>>> While another felt that selling her virginity for grad school "is a noble >>>> reason to get money." >>>> >>>> As for Natalie, after claiming to hold on to her virginity for 22 years >>>> (although the Bunny Ranch website claims she is 21-years-old), she says >>>> she >>>> has a commodity not many people have to sell. >>>> >>>> "When I was younger, I wanted 100% romance, possibly even wait for >>>> marriage. But as I grew up, reality kinda hit. And I think its a >>>> capitalistic society and I want to capitalize on this," explained Dylan. >>>> >>>> ================================== >>>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>>> guidelines >>>> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines >> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> > > > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:42:58 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Elizabeth Switaj Subject: Re: Can "nature" poetry be postmodern/post-structural? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Mary Jo Malo wrote: > > Experts in one field often feel qualified to make uninformed comments > regarding other fields. It's obvious there are environments of poetry > he's never dared to wander. Indeed, I think is especially pronounced with poetry. EVERYONE seems to think they are qualified to make comments on it--what's wrong with it, why they don't read it, etc. Elizabeth Kate Switaj www.elizabethkateswitaj.net ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 22:35:43 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Stephen Ellis Subject: Re: Bailout In-Reply-To: <496FB869.7040000@umn.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The more conscious you become - of anything - the larger the house gets to = be. Of course=2C the first thing to go is=2C a way to find the door. It a= lways gets more distant. And THAT is consciousness . . . that we're ALL "o= ne's own prisoner." In one's own Self. It goes with the territory. If te= rritory is what one's buying. =20 > Date: Thu=2C 15 Jan 2009 16:27:53 -0600> From: damon001@UMN.EDU> Subject:= Re: Bailout> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> > what a great response!> b= ut if one is inside the house=2C does it make one one's own prisoner?> > Ob= ododimma Oha wrote:> > Sometimes it is better to lock one's doors and throw= away the keys=2C even> > when there's nothing of great value in the house.= > > -- Obododimma.> >> >> >> > On Thu=2C Jan 15=2C 2009 at 8:09 PM=2C Maria= Damon wrote:> >> > > >> but is it not also worthless?> = >>> >>> >> Obododimma Oha wrote:> >>> >> > >>> No amount of money can purch= ase virginity. It is simply priceless.> >>> -- Obododimma.> >>>> >>> On Wed= =2C Jan 14=2C 2009 at 2:40 PM=2C mIEKAL aND > >>> wr= ote:> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> > >>>> (this piggybacks nicely on the brothel diss= ection...)> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Grad Student Selling Virginity Flooded With Of= fers> >>>>> >>>> http://cbs13.com/local/selling.virginity.tuition.2.815171.= html> >>>>> >>>> A Sacramento State grad trying to make money by auctioning= off her> >>>> virginity to help pay for her graduate studies is getting lo= ts of> >>>> offers...and not just for sex.> >>>>> >>>> The 22-year-old who = is using the pseudonym Natalie Dylan for safety> >>>> reasons> >>>> is goin= g through a legal brothel in Nevada to sell her virginity. Dylan> >>>> told= > >>>> CBS13 she's gotten an offer of $250=2C000. And now she's gotten an o= ffer> >>>> to> >>>> do a photo spread for Penthouse magazine.> >>>>> >>>> T= he auction is being handled by the Bunny Ranch in Carson City=2C Nevada> >>= >> with> >>>> bids coming in through their website.> >>>>> >>>> Dylan says = she's already taken a polygraph test to prove her virginal> >>>> status=2C = and is also willing to undergo a medical exam.> >>>>> >>>> "The main purpos= e of this is to finance a couple things in my life=2C"> >>>> Dylan> >>>> to= ld CBS13. "I think empowerment of women is picking yourself up and> >>>> do= ing> >>>> something on your own to better yourself."> >>>>> >>>> So far=2C = hundreds of offers have already come in including some from male> >>>> virg= ins. Natalie says she won't give up her virginity to the highest> >>>> bidd= er. She's also seeking other qualities from her first lover. "I'm> >>>> loo= king for intelligence and an overall nice person=2C" said Dylan.> >>>>> >>>= > Dylan says she ended up in a financial bind=2C because her stepfather> >>= >> allegedly used her college status to fraudulently apply for student> >>>= > loans=2C> >>>> and then ran off with the money.> >>>>> >>>> Dylan earned = her bachelor's degree in women's studies from Sacramento> >>>> State> >>>> = and plans to get her master's at the school beginning in January.> >>>>> >>= >> Many Sac State students say they're shocked to hear about their former> = >>>> classmate's plan=2C while others applaud her.> >>>>> >>>> "She's just = giving it to some random person. And I just think she should> >>>> be> >>>>= giving it to someone special she loves=2C" said one student on campus.> >>= >>> >>>> While another felt that selling her virginity for grad school "is = a noble> >>>> reason to get money."> >>>>> >>>> As for Natalie=2C after cla= iming to hold on to her virginity for 22 years> >>>> (although the Bunny Ra= nch website claims she is 21-years-old)=2C she says> >>>> she> >>>> has a c= ommodity not many people have to sell.> >>>>> >>>> "When I was younger=2C I= wanted 100% romance=2C possibly even wait for> >>>> marriage. But as I gre= w up=2C reality kinda hit. And I think its a> >>>> capitalistic society and= I want to capitalize on this=2C" explained Dylan.> >>>>> >>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> >>>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all p= osts. Check> >>>> guidelines> >>>> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu= /poetics/welcome.html> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> > >> =3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accep= t all posts. Check guidelines> >> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/= poetics/welcome.html> >>> >> > >> >> >> > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live=99 Hotmail=AE: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail.=20 http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_hm_justgotbetter_h= owitworks_012009= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:40:23 -0800 Reply-To: eric_dickey@yahoo.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Eric Dickey Subject: Re: name of French poet In-Reply-To: <00d101c97734$ec1d07a0$c45716e0$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think you mean pro=EAmes by Francis Ponge, with a circumflex over the fir= st e.=20 --- On Thu, 1/15/09, John Cunningham wrote: From: John Cunningham Subject: name of French poet To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009, 9:15 AM I'm trying to recall the name of the French poet who referred to his poems as "promes"? John Herbert Cunningham =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 08:18:38 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: About Poetry: Presidential Inauguration Poetry & "Where the He/art Pants" Election Anthology In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Along with About Poetry's selections and thoughts=2C also a reminder re Ele= ction Anthology "Where the He/art Pants" edited by Anny Ballardini and Obod= odimma-which is also about the inaugeration-- =20 http://poetry.about.com/b/2009/01/15/poetry-and-the-preside= ntial-inauguration.htm =20 From Bob Holman & Margery Snyder =20 Poetry came into the public eye numerous times during the 2008 U.S. Presidential election campaign=2C and the poetry world has been buzzing with excitement and bustling with suggestions since the election=2C especially as it became evident that poetry would have a role to play in next Tuesday's inauguration ceremony and celebration =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Poetry and the Presidential Inauguration While we're all waiting for Elizabeth Alexander's inaugural poem=2C let's reread the few poems that have marked earlier Presidential inaugurations... and a sampling of "unofficial" poems written for Barack Obama's inauguration by poets around the country.... read more *=B7* While the He/art Pants:(Poet= ic Responses to the 2008 American Elections) *=B7* Editorial: Obododimma Oha *=B7* Editorial: Anny Ballardini _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live=99 Hotmail=AE: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail.=20 http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_hm_justgotbetter_h= owitworks_012009= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:41:40 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Christopher Leland Winks Subject: Re: Bailout In-Reply-To: <496FB869.7040000@umn.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Let's consider Sappho: Parthenia, parthenia, poi me lipois' apoikhe? Translated by Guy Davenport as: Girlhood O girlhood Lost of a sudden, Where have you gone? Mary Barnard translates "Parthenia" as "Maidenhead." This is probably a fragment of an epithalamium and there is a certain degree of chaffing going on here: how insubstantial, after all, is this "maidenhead"! Tne joking tone remains in the response of the bridegroom (both voices were probably enacted by Sappho's girl pupils, though bear in mind we know very little about Sappho): Ouketi exo pros se ouket'exo Translated by Davenport as: Nowhere, bride my darling Nowhere near you We're a long way from chastity belts (with thrown-away keys) and extolling of virginity! ----- Original Message ----- From: Maria Damon Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009 5:30 pm Subject: Re: Bailout To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > what a great response! > but if one is inside the house, does it make one one's own prisoner? > > Obododimma Oha wrote: > > Sometimes it is better to lock one's doors and throw away the keys, > even > > when there's nothing of great value in the house. > > -- Obododimma. > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 8:09 PM, Maria Damon wrote: > > > > > >> but is it not also worthless? > >> > >> > >> Obododimma Oha wrote: > >> > >> > >>> No amount of money can purchase virginity. It is simply priceless. > >>> -- Obododimma. > >>> > >>> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 2:40 PM, mIEKAL aND > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> (this piggybacks nicely on the brothel dissection...) > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Grad Student Selling Virginity Flooded With Offers > >>>> > >>>> http://cbs13.com/local/selling.virginity.tuition.2.815171.html > >>>> > >>>> A Sacramento State grad trying to make money by auctioning off her > >>>> virginity to help pay for her graduate studies is getting lots of > >>>> offers...and not just for sex. > >>>> > >>>> The 22-year-old who is using the pseudonym Natalie Dylan for safety > >>>> reasons > >>>> is going through a legal brothel in Nevada to sell her > virginity. Dylan > >>>> told > >>>> CBS13 she's gotten an offer of $250,000. And now she's gotten > an offer > >>>> to > >>>> do a photo spread for Penthouse magazine. > >>>> > >>>> The auction is being handled by the Bunny Ranch in Carson City, > Nevada > >>>> with > >>>> bids coming in through their website. > >>>> > >>>> Dylan says she's already taken a polygraph test to prove her virginal > >>>> status, and is also willing to undergo a medical exam. > >>>> > >>>> "The main purpose of this is to finance a couple things in my life," > >>>> Dylan > >>>> told CBS13. "I think empowerment of women is picking yourself > up and > >>>> doing > >>>> something on your own to better yourself." > >>>> > >>>> So far, hundreds of offers have already come in including some > from male > >>>> virgins. Natalie says she won't give up her virginity to the highest > >>>> bidder. She's also seeking other qualities from her first > lover. "I'm > >>>> looking for intelligence and an overall nice person," said Dylan. > >>>> > >>>> Dylan says she ended up in a financial bind, because her stepfather > >>>> allegedly used her college status to fraudulently apply for student > >>>> loans, > >>>> and then ran off with the money. > >>>> > >>>> Dylan earned her bachelor's degree in women's studies from Sacramento > >>>> State > >>>> and plans to get her master's at the school beginning in January. > >>>> > >>>> Many Sac State students say they're shocked to hear about their > former > >>>> classmate's plan, while others applaud her. > >>>> > >>>> "She's just giving it to some random person. And I just think > she should > >>>> be > >>>> giving it to someone special she loves," said one student on campus. > >>>> > >>>> While another felt that selling her virginity for grad school > "is a noble > >>>> reason to get money." > >>>> > >>>> As for Natalie, after claiming to hold on to her virginity for > 22 years > >>>> (although the Bunny Ranch website claims she is 21-years-old), > she says > >>>> she > >>>> has a commodity not many people have to sell. > >>>> > >>>> "When I was younger, I wanted 100% romance, possibly even wait for > >>>> marriage. But as I grew up, reality kinda hit. And I think its > a > >>>> capitalistic society and I want to capitalize on this," > explained Dylan. > >>>> > >>>> ================================== > >>>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > >>>> guidelines > >>>> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> ================================== > >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > >> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 23:18:46 -0000 Reply-To: Robin Hamilton Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Robin Hamilton Subject: Re: Bailout In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Oh blah Kafka. R. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Ellis" To: Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 10:35 PM Subject: Re: Bailout The more conscious you become - of anything - the larger the house gets to be. Of course, the first thing to go is, a way to find the door. It always gets more distant. And THAT is consciousness . . . that we're ALL "one's own prisoner." In one's own Self. It goes with the territory. If territory is what one's buying. > Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:27:53 -0600> From: damon001@UMN.EDU> Subject: > Re: Bailout> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> > what a great response!> > but if one is inside the house, does it make one one's own prisoner?> > > Obododimma Oha wrote:> > Sometimes it is better to lock one's doors and > throw away the keys, even> > when there's nothing of great value in the > house.> > -- Obododimma.> >> >> >> > On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 8:09 PM, > Maria Damon wrote:> >> > > >> but is it not also > worthless?> >>> >>> >> Obododimma Oha wrote:> >>> >> > >>> No amount of > money can purchase virginity. It is simply priceless.> >>> -- Obododimma.> > >>>> >>> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 2:40 PM, mIEKAL aND > > >>> wrote:> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> > >>>> (this > piggybacks nicely on the brothel dissection...)> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Grad > Student Selling Virginity Flooded With Offers> >>>>> >>>> > http://cbs13.com/local/selling.virginity.tuition.2.815171.html> >>>>> >>>> > A Sacramento State grad trying to make money by auctioning off her> >>>> > virginity to help pay for her graduate studies is getting lots of> >>>> > offers...and not just for sex.> >>>>> >>>> The 22-year-old who is using > the pseudonym Natalie Dylan for safety> >>>> reasons> >>>> is going > through a legal brothel in Nevada to sell her virginity. Dylan> >>>> told> > >>>> CBS13 she's gotten an offer of $250,000. And now she's gotten an > offer> >>>> to> >>>> do a photo spread for Penthouse magazine.> >>>>> >>>> > The auction is being handled by the Bunny Ranch in Carson City, Nevada> > >>>> with> >>>> bids coming in through their website.> >>>>> >>>> Dylan > says she's already taken a polygraph test to prove her virginal> >>>> > status, and is also willing to undergo a medical exam.> >>>>> >>>> "The > main purpose of this is to finance a couple things in my life,"> >>>> > Dylan> >>>> told CBS13. "I think empowerment of women is picking yourself > up and> >>>> doing> >>>> something on your own to better yourself."> >>>>> > >>>> So far, hundreds of offers have already come in including some from > male> >>>> virgins. Natalie says she won't give up her virginity to the > highest> >>>> bidder. She's also seeking other qualities from her first > lover. "I'm> >>>> looking for intelligence and an overall nice person," > said Dylan.> >>>>> >>>> Dylan says she ended up in a financial bind, > because her stepfather> >>>> allegedly used her college status to > fraudulently apply for student> >>>> loans,> >>>> and then ran off with > the money.> >>>>> >>>> Dylan earned her bachelor's degree in women's > studies from Sacramento> >>>> State> >>>> and plans to get her master's at > the school beginning in January.> >>>>> >>>> Many Sac State students say > they're shocked to hear about their former> >>>> classmate's plan, while > others applaud her.> >>>>> >>>> "She's just giving it to some random > person. And I just think she should> >>>> be> >>>> giving it to someone > special she loves," said one student on campus.> >>>>> >>>> While another > felt that selling her virginity for grad school "is a noble> >>>> reason > to get money."> >>>>> >>>> As for Natalie, after claiming to hold on to > her virginity for 22 years> >>>> (although the Bunny Ranch website claims > she is 21-years-old), she says> >>>> she> >>>> has a commodity not many > people have to sell.> >>>>> >>>> "When I was younger, I wanted 100% > romance, possibly even wait for> >>>> marriage. But as I grew up, reality > kinda hit. And I think its a> >>>> capitalistic society and I want to > capitalize on this," explained Dylan.> >>>>> >>>> > ==================================> >>>> The Poetics List is moderated & > does not accept all posts. Check> >>>> guidelines> >>>> & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>> > >> ==================================> >> The Poetics List > is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines> >> & sub/unsub > info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html> >>> >> > >> >> >> > > > > ==================================> The Poetics List is moderated & does > not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™ Hotmail®: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_hm_justgotbetter_howitworks_012009 ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 23:57:04 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: AWAREing Press Subject: Re: Eyeless in Gaza In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable EKS, very funny. Where do we draw the line, as the saying goes. What's an a= dage, what's cliche, what's art, what's copyrighted, what's free? What's th= eir point? Who said what? What's attributed to whom, and when and why? Did = George chop down that cherry tree or was it a frame? Who invented letters, = words? Who invented rock and roll? Music, art & lit are in this together. C= opy-cats are everywhere. Only vampires and God know the origins and origina= tors. Any way, I've decided that it's the sum of the whole that matters in = any work (of art). Phrases borrowed and unattributed I guess are okay as lo= ng as the real or first writer isn't Poed. Though an IQ test score next to = any author's byline might be a bright idea.=20 James Beach, editor AWAREing Press -------------- Original message from Elizabeth Switaj : -= -------------=20 > On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 2:28 PM, AWAREing Press wrote:=20 >=20 > > True, true. My point is that classic literature and verse should be hel= d as=20 > > sacrosanct.=20 >=20 >=20 > "So right you are", "James". "I set my copies" "of classic literature" "u= pon=20 > a marble shelf" "on my homemade altar" "and regularly" "sacrifice cows to= =20 > them". "The blood of the throat" "I use to enclose them" "in a protective= =20 > circle" "lest anyone interfere" "with their holy mission" "of being"=20 > "classic".=20 >=20 > "Twenty days after winter solstice" "each year", "I engage in a ritual=20 > dance" "in which I" "smash and destroy" "scissors and paste pots". "Of=20 > course", "it is only symbolic of" "my desire to eradicate" "borrowings an= d=20 > theft" "from my Gods", "as the books themselves" "are more idol than avat= ar"=20 > "anyway, but aren't" "all the best" "rituals that way"?=20 >=20 >=20 > "Elizabeth" "Kate" "Switaj"=20 > "www.elizabethkateswitjaj.net"=20 >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20 > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es &=20 > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 19:01:48 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Check out installation in Second Life by DC Spensley (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/Mixed; BOUNDARY="0-412167772-1232064075=:24121" This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --0-412167772-1232064075=:24121 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=WINDOWS-1252; FORMAT=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Content-ID: This is really wonderful - I loved the kilometer-high drawing! - alan ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: DC Spensley Bio: DanCoyote Antonelli: The avatar DanCoyote was created as the proxy for David =93DC=94 Spensley i= n the=20 virtual world of Second Life. The name DanCoyote is derived from Cervantes= =92 Don=20 Quixote and in honor of a coyote that Joseph Beuys lived with for a time at= the=20 Ren=E9 Block Gallery in New York during his 1974 action, =93I like America = and=20 America Likes Me=94. DanCoyote=92s costume is intended to be simple and low bandwidth, placing t= he=20 emphasis on work outside of the avatar. Each detail of DanCoyote=92s garb,= =20 however, has significance. Yellow and black are high visibility colors and = also=20 the official colors of the City of San Francisco. The gold bands on his arm= s=20 and legs symbolize a release from the bonds of gravity and physicality. The= =20 wand in the left hand is called a =93caduceus=94, which refers to the=20 transformational nature of the Greek god Hermes. Caduceus .03 is also a one= of=20 a kind virtual tool, custom programmed to project commands to metamorphosiz= e=20 objects and installations from a distance. DC Spensley An alumni of the San Francisco Art Institute, DC Spensley has lived and wor= ked=20 in Northern California since 1986. Spensley wears the hat of writer, direct= or,=20 cinematographer, composer, performance artist and most recently has appeare= d as=20 the avatar DanCoyote Antonelli in the virtual reality simulation of Second= =20 Life. While most people jealously guard their pseudonymity inside this=20 alternate reality, Spensley attempts parity in both worlds and has exhibite= d=20 internationally at the ZeroOne/ISEA conference in 2006, the Dutch Electroni= c=20 Arts Festival 2006 and Ars Electronica 2007. About the work on exhibition at ARENA: I call this grouping "Recent Retrospective" because it contains art from=20 different bodies of my work done in the last three years as an artist in=20 residence in the virtual world. Most prominent is the nearly kilometer tall assembly entitled "Drawing".=20 Drawing is neither a drawing or a sculpture, but is rather a conceptual ton= gue=20 and cheek reference to both kinds of artifact that ironically cannot exist = in=20 simulated space. Drawing informs viewers about scale in the virtual world i= n a=20 way unlike most constructions found in SL by negating the figurative contex= t=20 and pointing out the "avatar powers" of a viewer. This encourages a viewer = to=20 become more aware of their configuration options and invites the viewer rea= lize=20 a new level of proficiency in experiencing simulated space. The mute monoli= ths=20 animate glacially, too slow for the eye to perceive and foreground a sense = of=20 the volume of space displaced by the work. Viewers take a chair conveyance= =20 available at the "Drawing" sign which carries them up to a vantage point hi= gh=20 about the sim. Also on display: "Pixel Board", a binary feedback social sculpture. Viewers click squares on= the=20 smaller panel and this input appears as output on the larger display, which= is=20 then visible from a great distance. Pixel Board explores the social urge to= =20 leave graffiti, but in a one-bit, black and white icon format. "Mutant Hossies". These three weird quasi-horse artworks are remediations o= f a=20 classic sculptural form and displayed like bronze statues on marble platfor= ms.=20 They are a "mashup", or reworking of an original horse sculpture give away = free=20 by Second Life artist Nomasha Syaks. Mutant Hossies have embedded scripting= =20 that causes subtle animations to play that support the fanciful variation o= f=20 horse depicted. "Tomb Maze" Tomb Maze uses embedded reflexive scripting to create a tomb-li= ke=20 maze that people are encouraged to navigate their avatar through. The maze = is=20 possible. It does take some patience, so there is always the chance an=20 impatient avatar might become trapped and need to find other means of escap= e! "Very Silly Militude" is not what it seems. Very Silly Militude characteriz= es=20 the quality of verissimilitude superficially. But when set to midnight, a= =20 viewer walking through will see light cast in unusual ways. The exterior la= yer=20 of the work is a deliberate misdirection and while it appears to be about t= he=20 movement of heavy objects in space, it is really about the way light is=20 occluded by them. Thanks for viewing! David "DC" Spensley is DanCoyote in SL Concurrent with the New Media Caucus panel Space: The New Frontier at the= =20 National CAA 2009, =93@=94 is an exhibition that examines space and site. With simultaneous locations in Los Angeles and Second Life (SL), =93@=94cha= llenges=20 artists to consider place & placelessness from within the context of networ= ked=20 culture. The physical gallery space will be replicated within SL, featuring an actua= l=20 window between the virtual and real worlds to observe and be observed. The exhibition space will feature a floor-to-ceiling projection and a strea= ming=20 video camera. This wall will serve as the interface between the Real Life = (RL)=20 in the gallery and its replication in Second Life. The intent for =93@=94 is to exploit the philosophically rich mirroring bet= ween RL=20 and SL, as well as the paradoxical condition of being the observer and=20 observed. CALL FOR WORKS: Three aspects to the show will be curated separately but are expected to=20 connect conceptually: 1) installation in RL: a heterotopic space - "other space" or "alt space"= =96 that=20 contains the projection from SL and that can be modeled in SL. The artist = is=20 not responsible for creating the SL model. 2) video screenings: works concerning space and place vis-=E0-vis RL and= SL.=20 These works will be screened in an adjacent space in RL and streamed in SL 3) works based in SL that may cross RL boundaries. Objects and performances= =20 originating in SL that consider and make use of the synergistic interplay o= f=20 RL/SL localities. Work may exist in either or both spaces. Exhibition site: Southern California Institute of Architecture, Los Angeles= ,=20 CA, and Seventh Eye in Second Life. Installation will take place at the end of February Formats: - Works may be in any medium. ( submissions must be web links) - Physical works MAY be reproduced in the SL space. - Please consider the exhibition context and propose new and existing works= =20 that fit this hybrid space. - Links to high compression downloadable quicktime are recommended, suggest= ed=20 length is 3-5 minutes. - The gallery is approximately 20' x 60' (detailed diagram available upon= =20 request) Deadline: January 26 Please send proposals or documentation links to: gallery@arsvirtua.com On Jan 15, 2009, at 11:12 AM, Alan Sondheim wrote: >=20 >=20 > - This is amazing - please send me a description and I'll send it out to= =20 > various lists etc. I particularly like the drawing which seems unique to = me=20 > and the aesthetics are incredible. - thanks, Alan >=20 >=20 >=20 > | Alan Sondheim Mail archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ > | To access the Odyssey exhibition The Accidental Artist: > | http://slurl.com/secondlife/Odyssey/48/12/22 > | Webpage (directory) at http://www.alansondheim.org > | sondheim@panix.com, sondheim@gmail.org, tel US 718-813-3285 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html --0-412167772-1232064075=:24121-- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:03:37 -0800 Reply-To: poet_in_hell@yahoo.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve russell Subject: Re: Bailout In-Reply-To: <496FB869.7040000@umn.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Good for her. Natalie knows what she wants out of life. Better make the bucks the old fashion way than lose it at some drunken Frat party with an asshole, and that's what usually happens. Virginity has nothing to do with virtue. --- On Thu, 1/15/09, Maria Damon wrote: From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Bailout To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009, 5:27 PM what a great response! but if one is inside the house, does it make one one's own prisoner? Obododimma Oha wrote: > Sometimes it is better to lock one's doors and throw away the keys, even > when there's nothing of great value in the house. > -- Obododimma. > > > > On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 8:09 PM, Maria Damon wrote: > > >> but is it not also worthless? >> >> >> Obododimma Oha wrote: >> >> >>> No amount of money can purchase virginity. It is simply priceless. >>> -- Obododimma. >>> >>> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 2:40 PM, mIEKAL aND >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> (this piggybacks nicely on the brothel dissection...) >>>> >>>> >>>> Grad Student Selling Virginity Flooded With Offers >>>> >>>> http://cbs13.com/local/selling.virginity.tuition.2.815171.html >>>> >>>> A Sacramento State grad trying to make money by auctioning off her >>>> virginity to help pay for her graduate studies is getting lots of >>>> offers...and not just for sex. >>>> >>>> The 22-year-old who is using the pseudonym Natalie Dylan for safety >>>> reasons >>>> is going through a legal brothel in Nevada to sell her virginity. Dylan >>>> told >>>> CBS13 she's gotten an offer of $250,000. And now she's gotten an offer >>>> to >>>> do a photo spread for Penthouse magazine. >>>> >>>> The auction is being handled by the Bunny Ranch in Carson City, Nevada >>>> with >>>> bids coming in through their website. >>>> >>>> Dylan says she's already taken a polygraph test to prove her virginal >>>> status, and is also willing to undergo a medical exam. >>>> >>>> "The main purpose of this is to finance a couple things in my life," >>>> Dylan >>>> told CBS13. "I think empowerment of women is picking yourself up and >>>> doing >>>> something on your own to better yourself." >>>> >>>> So far, hundreds of offers have already come in including some from male >>>> virgins. Natalie says she won't give up her virginity to the highest >>>> bidder. She's also seeking other qualities from her first lover. "I'm >>>> looking for intelligence and an overall nice person," said Dylan. >>>> >>>> Dylan says she ended up in a financial bind, because her stepfather >>>> allegedly used her college status to fraudulently apply for student >>>> loans, >>>> and then ran off with the money. >>>> >>>> Dylan earned her bachelor's degree in women's studies from Sacramento >>>> State >>>> and plans to get her master's at the school beginning in January. >>>> >>>> Many Sac State students say they're shocked to hear about their former >>>> classmate's plan, while others applaud her. >>>> >>>> "She's just giving it to some random person. And I just think she should >>>> be >>>> giving it to someone special she loves," said one student on campus. >>>> >>>> While another felt that selling her virginity for grad school "is a noble >>>> reason to get money." >>>> >>>> As for Natalie, after claiming to hold on to her virginity for 22 years >>>> (although the Bunny Ranch website claims she is 21-years-old), she says >>>> she >>>> has a commodity not many people have to sell. >>>> >>>> "When I was younger, I wanted 100% romance, possibly even wait for >>>> marriage. But as I grew up, reality kinda hit. And I think its a >>>> capitalistic society and I want to capitalize on this," explained Dylan. >>>> >>>> ================================== >>>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>>> guidelines >>>> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines >> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> > > > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 15:55:45 -1000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Gabrielle Welford Subject: simone weil Comments: To: steve russell In-Reply-To: <531793.93313.qm@web52407.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=windows-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE simone weil did, i think, write about hitler, seeing him more as the voice of what people really wanted in germany at that time than some kind of superman who could, alone, make terrible things happen. best, g On Tue, 13 Jan 2009, steve russell wrote: > Brilliant essay, Jan 9:Troy Camplin. > > I take on faith that God is not apathetic. Perhaps this is why I'm so > struck by Simone Weil, the greatest Christian gnostic of the 20th > century. She died very young. & yes,=A0 her silence concerning the > Holocaust is troubling. Had she lived longer, I suspect that she would > not have remained silent. > > Anyone who considers themselves Christian should be grateful that the > writings of=A0 this=A0 gifted,=A0 Jewish=A0 ( though not Jewish in the re= ligious > sense as she couldn't stomach the unflinching violence in the Old > Testament) woman survived. > > Simone did not survive an ugly, dark time. > > --- On Tue, 1/13/09, Troy Camplin wrote: > From: Troy Camplin > Subject: Re: On Health, Holiness, Beauty and Poetry > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Date: Tuesday, January 13, 2009, 2:28 PM > > Some excellent points here. Much to chew on. The first things that come t= o mind > are the following: > > First: holy encompasses more than does sacred. A person can be holy, but = is a > person sacred? Places can be either holy or sacred. This is a distinction > (another person suggested "spiritual" -- which is another word that I > should address in this same context) I should address. My project here wa= s to > make people think about the way the word is used, so it is contra Wittgen= stein > in the spirit of Wittgenstein, so to speak.. > > Second: I am arguing that, essentially, holiness and holism are the same,= but > that the holiness/holism I am arguing for is not exclusive or where one i= deology > dominates another. I agree with you that the pomo argument against grand > narratives is itself holistic, despite their best efforts (as I pointed o= ut once > to a postmodernist, who didn't have an answer for my claim). However, the= y > do attempt to dispose of the whole/holiness, and I think that is as dange= rous as > those who think holiness is cancer. > > Third: good, bad, and evil can be understood as: knowledge of the good, a= nd > doing it; ignorance of the good; knowledge of the good, and working again= st it. > I think, then, that to be good, you have to have knowledge, including kno= wledge > of the whole -- and have the wisdom to do it. Wisdom and knowledge combin= ed > constitute beauty, and the beautiful is holy. These are a few things I ne= ed to > make explicit and develop more. > > Like I said, these are just a few quick thoughts. Your observations are > spot-on, and will help me to develop these ideas much more. Thank you. > > Troy Camplin > > > > ________________________________ > From: Jason Quackenbush > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 4:25:13 PM > Subject: Re: On Health, Holiness, Beauty and Poetry > > Troy, > I often disagree with you, but I can see a good deal of merit in your pro= ject > here to reclaim the word holy. > > The analytic philosopher in me (eminently modernist, don't you know) want= s > a bit more rigor here though. > > to that end i would consider the following pairings with the word holy an= d > holiness which I think maybe create some problems for what you're saying = and > that I think need answering. Don't misunderstand me, I think that there c= an > be answers, I'm just curious about how the lines are drawn poetically and > philosophically here. > > first: holy vs. sacred > > my own first among equals in the philosophical pantheon ludwig wittgenste= in has > counseled that in most cases the meaning of a word is it's use in a > loanguage. To that end, we often use the word holy in the same circumstan= ce that > we might also use the word sacred. There is an overlap there just as ther= e > exists overlap between the unholy and the profane. But the terms are not > coextensive and therefore not exact synonyms. I wonder what might be holy= but > not sacred and in where the distinction lies. > > second: holiness vs holism > there seems to be some blurring going on between the two words that I'm n= ot > sure i understand. are you saying that holism is by definition holy? how = then do > you account for competing views of holines? you touched on this a bit in > what's below and yr comments on metanarrative, but I'd like to see a > more explicit development of that thought, specifically given that the > postmodern condition of skepticism toward metanarratives (holiness in you= r view) > is itself holistic. > > third: the holy vs the good > > is all that is holy good? is all that is good holy? if so, why the differ= ent > words and wahat do we make of the different qualities associated with eac= h? > holiness hasa connotation of unapproachability and beyond the merely huma= n, > whereas goodness is something that we can always seem ot find and appreci= ate. it > is much like the aesthetic in this way. > > > On Jan 9, 2009, at 9:24 AM, Troy Camplin wrote: > > > In English the words holy, whole, hale, and health are etymologically > connected =96 Old English halig, hal, and h=E6lth, respectively, which ar= e all > related to hal. Thus are they conceptually connected. To see the world as= holy > is to see the world as whole =96 it is to have the world =93appear infini= te and > holy, whereas it now appears finite and corrupt=94 (William Blake, =93The > Marriage of Heaven and Hell=94). The word holistic comes from the Greek h= olos, > whole. Thus the holy is holistic =96 God is holy because He encompasses a= ll. > Perhaps one could even say that we can recognize the divine only when we = come to > see the world as a whole, when we see the universe as universal. When we = can > come > > > > To see a World in a grain of sand, > > And a Heaven in a wild flower, > > Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand, > > And Eternity in an hour. (William Blake, =93Auguries of Innocence=94) > > > > Health and hale is the same. To have health is to have wholeness. To be > hale is to be healthy =96 whole and complete. To make healthy is to make = whole > again. One is healed through medication. But ideally, one would rather ma= intain > one=92s health than have to withstand the ravages of medication (pharmace= utical > comes from the Greek pharmakon, which means both poison and medicine =96 = as it > does today), though medication is necessary to stave off disease. This is= the > purpose of Plato=92s Pharmakon, to stave off disease. For disease is the > opposite of health. > > > > The Modern Era, which we are still in, though we may be at the end of i= t, > began when Descartes split man in two =96 body and soul. It was a necessa= ry > division for the development of modern science (which Descartes all but a= dmits > to =96 the division is so the Church will tend to the soul, while the bod= y is > left alone, to be tended to by scientists such as Descartes), but it was > certainly an unholy division (as all divisions are, by definition). Kant > deepened this division. Hegel tried to mend it through philosophical synt= hesis. > Marx tried to mend it by recommending the overthrow of half of the world = =96 the > world would then be wholly Proletarian. Nietzsche responded to Hegel by d= ividing > the world up even more =96 for him, humans are not divided into body and = soul, > but are instead a series of masks. With postmodernism, the division is co= mplete: > men and women, multiculturalism, radical Cartesian individualism divide u= s up > more and more. Any universality is > > denied. A necessary development =96 and not without its truth (I am aw= are > of the irony of using the word truth, which comes from the Old English tr= eowth, > related to the word troth, from which we get the word betrothed, to speak= of an > idea that is more interested in divorce than betrothal). But it is precis= ely as > unholy as one can get. > > > > The deep divisions fostered by postmodernism came about because of a vi= ew > that grand narratives, attempts to universalize, and seeing the world as > holistic created the problems of the 20th Century. The Marxist grand narr= ative > gave us the gulag of the Soviet Union, the massacres of the Khmer Rouge i= n > Cambodia, and any number of other slaughters done by governments who had > embraced Marxist philosophy. We looked back on history after the Holocaus= t, saw > the grand narrative of Christianity had in the past itself promoted the k= illing > of Jews =96 particularly in the Inquisition =96 and concluded that it too= was > dangerous. One could also mention The Terror of the French Revolution. Wh= at did > Marxism, Medieval Christianity, and the French Revolution have in common?= One > thing was that they were all grand narratives. Thus, the logic goes, it m= ust be > grand narratives which are bad. And what do grand narratives do? They see= the > world as a whole, which must be > > encompassed by their ideology. To make the world a whole, it must be > placed under their one ideology. Thus, holistic world views were seen as = bad =96 > thus were they, and holiness, rejected. The path to Heaven =96 whether th= at > heaven was celestial or earthly =96 seemed to lead us straight into Hell. > Perhaps in part the rejection of holding a holistic view came about becau= se it > is related to the holy, and the holy has been rejected. To the extent tha= t > wisdom is the ability to see the unity of the world =96 meaning wisdom is= the > ability to see the world as holy =96 wisdom was also rejected as impossib= le, > perhaps even undesirable. > > > > The error in this way of thinking derives from the error made in seeing > Communism, Christianity, or the ideals of the French Revolution as intere= sted in > seeing the world as holistic. None of them saw the world as holistic, as = holy > =96 they instead wanted to make the world whole, under their particular > umbrellas. They too fostered divisions =96 there were enemies who had to = be > either converted or killed in order that the world could be made holy. = =93For > the cherub with his flaming sword is hereby commanded to leave his guard = at tree > of life; and when he does, the whole creation will be consumed and appear > infinite and holy=94 (Blake =93The Marriage of Heaven and Hell=94). Now B= lake > here uses the word =93appear.=94 None of them saw the world as holy. It h= ad to > be made so =96 through conflagration, if necessary. Postmodern thought, b= y > dividing the world even more, does not help us to see the world as holy = =96 > quite the contrary. However, by insisting on > > equality among the various parts =96 among individuals, among cultures= , > among religions, among any number of groups of individuals =96 postmodern > thought may ironically make it now possible to see the world as being, ra= ther > than needing to become, holy. > > > > It may seem ironic to suggest that only by reaching the most severe of > divisions =96 seeing the world as eminently unholy =96 that we can finall= y come > to see that the world is in fact holy, but I am not being ironic. To see = the > world as holy is not to see everything in the world as equal in an egalit= arian > sense. There are hierarchies. To see the world as holy is to understand h= ow > everything fits into the world as a whole. It is to see the world as an i= mmense > organism, and to care for its health. An organism is made up of systems, = organs, > tissues, cells, organelles, and various biochemicals. For one group to wa= nt to > envelop the entire world in one way of thinking, believing, viewing the w= orld, > would be the same as one cell wanting to envelop the entire organism in t= hat one > type of cell. We have a word for cells that want to do that: cancer. The > postmodernists have mistaken viewing the actions of cancerous cells for s= eeing > the whole organism. Cancer must > > be fought, not mistaken for the animal it is in. That is the only way = one > can have a healthy organism =96 and it is the only way to have a holy wor= ld.. > Like a healthy organism, a holy world is complex. Like a healthy organism= , a > holy world has smoothly working parts in communication with each other th= rough > clear rules that proscribe what each part needs to do for the whole to wo= rk > well. Like a healthy organism, this cannot come from any centralized auth= ority > =96 there is no one control cell in the body, and the brain must have the= lungs > just as much as the lungs must have the brain. A holy world is like a hea= lthy > organism. > > > > In Negative Theology, one comes to know what God is by figuring out wha= t > God is not. Aristotle says that if you are not sure if something is good,= try to > figure out what is bad, and you can then deduce that what is good is its > opposite. > > The following are unhealthy: > > > > 1. Overeating, including eating a high percentage of foods with low > nutritional value, while remaining inactive (not exercising) > > 2. Either stagnation or change without continuity =96 both create > instability > > 3. Stress and anxiety =96 which comes about from not realizing that the= re > are parts of the world that one cannot control, and can lead to anger at = those > very things > > 4. Hatred =96 aside from raising the blood pressure, it can cause one t= o > act in ways that would be unhealthy for the object of our hatred > > 5. Cancer =96 already discussed > > 6. Excess =96 including the excess of moderation > > 7. Shackles =96 prevents sufficient movement, equating to lack of exerc= ise > > 8. Pollution =96 it can lead to any number of diseases > > 9. An overly-clean environment =96 it can prevent our immune systems fr= om > developing properly, making us more susceptible to diseases, especially > autoimmune diseases > > 10. Suicide =96 inherently and obviously unhealthy > > 11. Isolation =96 loneliness can lead to depression, which depresses th= e > immune system > > 12. Ignorance =96 either of the world or of oneself, as one cannot > maintain one=92s health if one is ignorant of what can harm it or improve= it > > > > This leads one to posit the following are healthy: > > > > 1. Exercise, with a diet proper to the amount of exercise and of high > nutritional value > > 2. Change with continuity > > 3. Realizing that there are parts of the world that one cannot control, > thus reducing stress and anxiety > > 4. Love > > 5. Keeping the body in hierarchical harmony > > 6. Moderation in everything, including moderation =96 remembering that > moderation is an extreme in the same way that life is an extreme state of > organic chemistry > > 7. Freedom =96 remembering that freedom does not equate to a lack of > rules, but is rather what is achieved through playing by the best rules > > 8. Cleanliness (which, as the saying goes, is next to Godliness, meanin= g > it is holy) > > 9. A non-sanitized world =96 a world without dirt is a world that makes > unhealthy organisms > > 10. Love of one=92s own life > > 11. Friends > > 12. Knowledge =96 including self-knowledge > > > > One can make a similar list of what makes for a healthy mind: > > 1. Taking in healthy information =96 good art, music, literature, > philosophy, the sciences, etc. =96 with sufficient exercise of the mind t= hrough > thought, discussion, and writing > > 2. Change with continuity > > 3.. Realizing that there are parts of the world that one cannot control= , > thus reducing stress and anxiety, which can negatively affect the mind as= well > as the body > > 4. Love > > 5. Having a variety of inputs =96 obsession with one thing alone is a k= ind > of mental cancer > > 6. Moderation in everything, including moderation =96 moderation of > reading, of rigorous thought, sexual thoughts, work, play, physical activ= ity, > etc. > > 7. Freedom of thought =96 we must not think in shackles, but with flexi= ble > rules > > 8. Cleanliness of thought =96 this does not necessarily mean what it ha= s > traditionally meant in the West, though it can certainly contain some ele= ments; > thinking about sex is in and of itself not unclean > > 9. Realization that we do not and cannot live in a sanitized world, as > that stops thought and creativity > > 10. Love of thinking > > 11. Friends =96 as Aristotle says in Rhetoric, =93a wide circle of > friends, a virtuous circle of friends,=94 and, I would add, a mentally > stimulating circle of friends > > 12. Knowledge =96 including self knowledge =96 with the goal of wisdom > > > > A holy world is one that parallels the healthy body and the healthy min= d, > and will have the above qualities, including moderation in everything, in= cluding > moderation (i.e., it will be a just world), freedom (this is freedom from= , not > freedom to), love, friendship, and beauty. A holy world is a beautiful wo= rld, > both having variety in unity, unity in variety, complexity, and fluid hie= rarchy > that is self-similar regardless of scale. All of the parts, living in lov= e and > friendship (which does not exclude healthy competition, such as we find i= n > sports and in free trade), living in a complex dynamic with each other, l= iving > as individuals in various communities, many of which overlap and are nest= ed > within other communities, must be self-similar to have a holy world. > > > > In Greek, to kalon means the beautiful, but it can also mean the honora= ble > or the noble =96 and kala can mean either things that are beautiful or th= ings > that are morally good. In the Rhetoric, Aristotle says that =93Now kalon > describes whatever, through being chosen for itself, is praiseworthy or > whatever, through being good [agathon], is pleasant because it is good > [agathon]. If this, then, is the kalon, then virtue is necessarily kalon;= for it > is praiseworthy because of being good [agathon]=94 (79). Elaine Scarry po= ints > out that in English too, there is a connection between beauty and the goo= d (the > just), when she points out that to say that something is fair is to say t= hat it > is either beautiful or that it is just. In Greek and in English, the beau= tiful > and the good are connected. If a holy world is a beautiful world, it is a= good > and just world as well. As Heraclitus said, =93For god all things are fai= r and > just, but men have taken some things as > > unjust, others as just=94 (LXVIII). The key here is that we see the wo= rld > itself as just =96 not the actions of each and every individual. The worl= d is > itself justified and cannot itself be unjust. This is consistent with the > teachings of any religion that sees the world as having been created by G= od or > the gods =96 how could a fair and just god create a world that was itself > unjust? And if theistic religions are rejected, how can the world itself > possibly be unjust? To say it is unjust is to give it anthropomorphic qua= lities. > It is people who have taken some things as being just, others as unjust = =96 but > the world itself is self-justified. Those who do not see the world as jus= t are > those who do not see the world as holy =96 often they are the same people= who > think the only way the world can be justified is if the world is made hol= y > through the transformation of it into a perfect mirror of themselves. But= we > have seen that a world made up of only one > > world view is a cancerous world =96 and the world, as a cancerous > organism, will die. An organism cannot consist of one type of cell =96 th= at is > the unhealthiest of organisms. And a world having only one world view is = the > unhealthiest of worlds. In the same way that a healthy body consists of a > variety of cells that are variations of the same theme coded by identical= DNA, a > healthy world consists of a variety of peoples that are variations of the= same > themes coded for by our being human and sharing the same cultural univers= als. > > > > Beauty is also related to health =96 as we can see in the beauty we fin= d > in nature. Healthy plants produce the most beautiful flowers. Healthy pea= cocks > produce the largest, most symmetrical, most colorful feathers. Healthy go= bies > and other territorial reef fish have the brightest colors. All of this na= tural > beauty is the advertisement of health to the opposite sex. The healthiest= human > bodies (neither overweight nor super model thin) are the most beautiful. = Thus is > there also a relationship between health, beauty, and sex. If beauty can = thus be > equated to health, we can see that beauty is again equated to the holy. A= nd we > can see too that sex in-and-of-itself is and cannot be unholy, as it is > connected (but not equivalent) to beauty. > > > > A holy world is a whole world. It is a healthy world. It is a good and > just world. It is a complex world. It is a world of individuals in commun= ity. It > is a beautiful world. But is it a possible world? I have already given th= e > answer: the world is itself already holy. We just have to learn to see it= as > holy. That is how we will heal the world. And, as we do, we will become l= ess and > less likely to want or try to eliminate those who disagree with us =96 un= til we > are all in agreement on this one issue, as all the cells in an organism a= re in > agreement on the one issue that they must work together for the health of= the > whole, even as each performs its own function. Thus, the world will becom= e more > and more holy in our eyes. In works of tragedy, nomos (convention, human = law, > naming; from which we get the words nomad and nomenclature, and which is = the > changing and changeable aspect of the world) comes into conflict with phy= sis (or > nature; from which we get the > > word physics). That is the position we are now in. When we get nomos t= o > map onto physis (Heraclitus calls this conjunction logos =96 which can be > translated as saying, speech, discourse, word, account, explanation, reas= on, > principle, collection, enumeration, ratio, proportion), we will see the w= orld as > it truly is: holy. > > > > On the Holy > > > > Where lies the holy in the modern world? > > It lies in Blake=92s world in a grain of sand =96 > > It lies, and lies like the truth, in patterns > > Like self-organized rings of rocks barren > > Arctic fields create. It lies in the branch > > Of every tree and species, leafing out > > From the known into the unknown. It lies > > In every song, painting and rhythmic verse. > > We have looked at every leaf and petal, > > At the bark and at the wood, every cell > > And strand of DNA is now known =96 > > And we have forgotten that all of this > > Was once a tree that gave us shade and filled > > The air with delicate sweetness and held > > The grains of sand against its roots to hold > > The ground in place, even as that ground moves > > And changes in tiny ways we refuse > > To see. In this we can see the holy. > > This is where it lies, now and forever, > > On the edge of order and wild chaos, > > Where the infinite holds in the finite, > > Where we, ourselves holy, have always lived. > > > > Troy Camplin > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > Jason Quackenbush > jfq@myuw.net > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > Gabrielle Welford, Ph.D. (support "Noho Hewa: The Wrongful Occupation of Hawai'i" by going to www.nohohewa.com and clicking on "donate") blog: www.greenwom.blogspot.com books: _Too Many Deaths: Decolonizing Western Academic Research on Indigenous Cultures_ http://www.theguildofwriters.com/books/shop.php?action=3Dfull&id=3D317 _Dora_ http://www.theguildofwriters.com/books/shop.php?action=3Dfull&id=3D378 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.412 / Virus Database: 268.18.4/705 - Release Date: 2/27/2007 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 21:12:06 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: About Poetry: Presidential Inauguration Poetry & "Where the He/art Pants" Election Anthology In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable led to a fascinating chain On 1/15/09 9:18 AM, "David-Baptiste Chirot" wrote: > Along with About Poetry's selections and thoughts, also a reminder re Ele= ction > Anthology "Where the He/art Pants" edited by Anny Ballardini and > Obododimma-which is also about the inaugeration-- >=20 > =20 >=20 > =20 > http://poetry.about.com/b/2009/01/15/poetry-and-the-presidential-inaugura= tion. > htm >=20 >=20 >=20 > =20 > From Bob Holman & Margery Snyder > =20 > Poetry > came into the public eye numerous times during the 2008 U.S. > Presidential election campaign, and the poetry world has been buzzing > with excitement and bustling with suggestions since the election, > especially as it became evident that poetry would have a role to play > in next Tuesday's inauguration ceremony and celebration >=20 > =20 > =20 > =20 >=20 > =20 > =20 > =20 > =20 > =20 > =20 > =20 > =20 > =20 > =20 > Poetry and the Presidential Inauguration While > we're all waiting for Elizabeth Alexander's inaugural poem, let's > reread the few poems that have marked earlier Presidential > inaugurations... and a sampling of "unofficial" poems written for > Barack Obama's inauguration by poets around the country.... read more > *=B7* While the He/art > Pants:(Poetic > Responses to the 2008 American Elections) > *=B7* Editorial: Obododimma > Oha > *=B7* Editorial: Anny > Ballardini >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live=81 Hotmail=AE: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail. > http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_hm_justgotbetter_h= owitw > orks_012009 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 00:21:21 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Morgan Schuldt Subject: New from CUE Editions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Let It Be Nearby (CUE Editions=2C 2008)=2C Mark Horosky's debut collection = of prose poems w/ cover(s) art by Amie Robinson is now available in a limit= ed edition of 100 chapbooks. =20 LIBN is printed on 15 unbound 6 3/4" x 6 3/4 " chap-cards that have both a Side A and Side B. Chaps come in four different colors (red / mustard / blue / teal) and are slipped inside a 7" paper record sleeve. $10. For pictures and ordering go to: http://cueeditions.blogspot.com/ from Let It Be Nearby Prose Poem Made From Spork Magazine=92s Contributors=92 Notes He is not a little scrap of a guy with soft hands. His spelling has suffere= d tremendously. He believes that intelligence is a function of the exquisit= ely orchestrated interplay between all tissues of the body and the ephemera= of constantly shifting environments. Tattoos of stars all over his body. L= oves his grandmother=2C but will not use her name. His knuckles are healing= . He can=92t dance=2C but he is getting better with the trapeze and the rop= e. Cuts his hands repeatedly and still the box is not done. Over & over aga= in=2C awakes staring at the inner part of his elbow. He still somewhat snig= gers when someone says =93finger lickin=92 good.=94 His hair is sort of bro= wnish=2C although in some photographs it seems yellow=2C like the color of = his favorite pants. Swears all the time. He likes to keep very busy doing c= omplicated things so he doesn=92t have to do the things that come naturally= . Not yet decided on a summer look=2C he is a professional human being=2C a= nd when he isn=92t shoeing pelicans=2C he wishes he was mildly telepathic= =2C but is only in cases where people are thinking very simple things like = Where=92s my bike? He says only fools rush in=2C but he can=92t help fallin= g in love with you. _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live=99: Keep your life in sync.=20 http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_0= 12009= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 18:41:33 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Poetry Project Subject: Events and Workshops at The Poetry Project Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable We have some good readings coming up at The Poetry Project and the church i= s nice and warm. We hope to see you here. Also, the next round of workshops starts up in February=8B scroll down for info. Friday, January 16, 10 PM Michael Basinski & Justin Katko Michael Basinski is the curator of The Poetry Collection at the State University of New York at Buffalo. He performs his work as a solo poet and in ensemble with BuffFluxus. Among his many books of poetry are Of Venus 93 (Little Scratch Pad); All My Eggs Are Broken (BlazeVox); Heka (Factory School); Strange Things Begin to Happen When a Meteor Crashes in the Arizon= a Desert (Burning Press); and AuXin (an Amphibole book, Amphibole is a vehicl= e of They Are Flying Planes). His poems have appeared in Dandelion, BoxKite, Antennae, Unbearables Magazine, Open Letter, Torgue, Leopold Bloom, Wooden Head Review, Basta, Kiosk, Explosive Magazine, Deluxe Rubber Chicken, First Offense, Terrible Work, Juxta, Kenning, Witz, Lungfull, Lvng, Generator, Tinfish, Curicule Patterns, Score, Unarmed, Rampike, First Intensity, House Organ, Ferrum Wheel, End Note, Ur Vox, Damn the Caesars, Pilot, 1913, Filling Station, Public Illumination, Words, They Are Flying Planes and in others. Justin Katko is a poet and publisher. He edits the small press Critical Documents, which specializes in contemporary poetry from the UK an= d the US. He is completing an MFA in Electronic Writing at Brown University. Wednesday, January 21, 8 PM Bob Perelman & Craig Watson Bob Perelman is the author of numerous books of poetry, including Iflife, Ten to One, and, in collaboration with painter Francie Shaw, Playing Bodies= ; and two critical books, The Trouble with Genius and The Marginalization of Poetry. He teaches at the University of Pennsylvania. Craig Watson has been a theater manager, corporate executive, technical writer, volunteer fire fighter, strategic consultant and college instructor, among other vocations= . Currently, he serves as an associate artistic director for a professional theater in Rhode Island. His eleven books of poetry began with Drawing A Blank (Singing Horse Press, 1980) and most recently include True News (Instance, 2002) and Secret Histories (Burning Deck, 2007). He lives on an island at the mouth of Narragansett Bay. HAVING IT BOTH WAYS: THE PROSE POEM =AD LARRY FAGIN TUESDAYS AT 7PM: 10 SESSIONS BEGIN FEBRUARY 10TH This is a workshop designed for writers of both poetry and short prose, who are interested in investigating the boundary between the two areas, or thos= e who have discovered such boundaries to be less than trustworthy. We will study this indeterminate form - its subtle musical passages, its rhythms, its connections to narrative and vignette, and its recent incorporations of disjunction and collage. We will read (Baudelaire, Rimbaud, Stein, Max Jacob, Ponge, Ashbery, Bernadette Mayer, Lydia Davis, et al), exchange idea= s (story, description, image, abstraction, the personal) and refine our writing with an eye toward publication. Weekly reading and writing assignments. Also, three individual consultations for each participant, throughout the ten weeks. Larry Fagin is the author of 18 books, the most recent of which is Dig & Delve, a collaboration with the artist Trevor Winkfield. "THIS MACHINE KILLS FASCISTS": WRITING POLITICAL POEMS =AD SPARROW THURSDAYS AT 7PM: 10 SESSIONS BEGIN FEBRUARY 12TH A poem is a weapon; the question is which way to point it. In "This Machine Kills Fascists," we will study how the masters fought evil, and we'll teach the masters a few tricks of our own. It's time to change the world, one lin= e at a time. (Incidentally, this workshop is open to Republicans and free-market economists.) We will examine the works of Langston Hughes, Yoko Ono, Woody Guthrie, Amiri Baraka, Sonia Sanchez, John Greenleaf Whittier, Mahmoud Darwish, and more. And we will write! Sparrow, author of America: A Prophesy, professor and Presidential candidate, will lead this enclave. THE FILMIC MUSE: WRITING MOVIE POEMS =AD JEFFERY CONWAY FRIDAYS AT 7PM: 10 SESSIONS BEGIN FEBRUARY 13TH Whether you're a movieholic, or just have a few movies you love, transforming film into poetry is a great way to stretch and attenuate as a writer. The workshop includes weekly readings of Frank O'Hara, Edward Field= , David Trinidad, Denise Duhamel, and Lynn Crosbie, among others, as well as weekly writing exercises and opportunities to discuss your work. Some of th= e approaches we'll try: persona poems as a way of inhabiting film; creating poems as scene-by-scene analysis or "poetic DVD commentary"; writing hybrid poems which incorporate biography, trivia, film criticism, and technical analysis. Jeffery Conway's latest book is The Album That Changed My Life, a finalist for the Lambda Literary Award. PHENOLOGY AND POETRY =AD SUSIE TIMMONS SATURDAYS AT NOON: 10 SESSIONS BEGIN FEBRUARY 14TH Phenology =AD the study of the sequence and timing of events in the life cycles of animals and plants as they respond to seasonal changes in environment =AD is used by farmers and gardeners to know when to plant, when to expect certain pests etc.; for example, "Don't plant corn before oak leaves are the size of a squirrel's ear." We will use the practice of phenology in conjunction with a series of exercises as a departure for examining: the temporal scale of our work, the conundrum of cyclic change, the potential for physical discomfort as a source of inspiration. Meetings will consist of excursions (in close proximity to the Poetry Project) regardless of weather conditions, methodically observing precise changes in a preordained collection of sites as we go from the dead of winter into early spring. If you think looking at twigs is stupid, this workshop is not for you. Susie Timmons is the author of Locked From the Outside (winner of the inaugural Ted Berrigan Award). The workshop fee is $350, which includes a one year Sustaining Poetry Project membership and tuition for any and all spring and fall classes. Reservations are required due to limited class space, and payment must be received in advance. Caps on class sizes, if in effect, will be determined by workshop leaders. Please send payment and reservations to: The Poetry Project, St. Mark's Church Attn: Workshops 131 East 10th St. NYC, NY 10003 For more information, or to pay by credit card, please call (212) 674-0910, or email: info@poetryproject.com. Become a Poetry Project Member! http://poetryproject.com/membership.php Calendar: http://www.poetryproject.com/calendar.php The Poetry Project is located at St. Mark's Church-in-the-Bowery 131 East 10th Street at Second Avenue New York City 10003 Trains: 6, F, N, R, and L. info@poetryproject.com www.poetryproject.com Admission is $8, $7 for students/seniors and $5 for members (though now those who take out a membership at $95 or higher will get in FREE to all regular readings). We are wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. For more info call 212-674-0910. If you=B9d like to be unsubscribed from this mailing list, please drop a line at info@poetryproject.com. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 21:29:32 -0800 Reply-To: lmrussell04@yahoo.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Lauren Russell Subject: Re: Bailout In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What I have always found rather odd about the whole concept of virginity is= that it is presented as a thing to be "saved" or "given," or in this case,= "sold."=A0 Apart from the social issues raised by that usage, I just wonde= r, grammatically and idiomatically, how one can save or give or sell not ha= ving done something.=A0 I mean, I have never dropped acid, but if I were to= drop acid with someone, I wouldn't say I had given that person my not-havi= ng-dropped-acid.=A0 Can any experience besides sex claim a word devoted jus= t to not having done it?=A0=20 Lauren --- On Wed, 1/14/09, mIEKAL aND wrote: From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Bailout To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Wednesday, January 14, 2009, 7:40 AM (this piggybacks nicely on the brothel dissection...) Grad Student Selling Virginity Flooded With Offers http://cbs13.com/local/selling.virginity.tuition.2.815171.html A Sacramento State grad trying to make money by auctioning off her virginity to help pay for her graduate studies is getting lots of offers...and not just for sex. The 22-year-old who is using the pseudonym Natalie Dylan for safety reasons is going through a legal brothel in Nevada to sell her virginity. Dylan told CBS13 she's gotten an offer of $250,000.=A0 And now she's gotten an offer to do a photo spread for Penthouse magazine. The auction is being handled by the Bunny Ranch in Carson City, Nevada with= bids coming in through their website. Dylan says she's already taken a polygraph test to prove her virginal statu= s, and is also willing to undergo a medical exam. "The main purpose of this is to finance a couple things in my life," Dylan told CBS13.=A0 "I think empowerment of women is picking yourself up and doing something on your own to better yourself." So far, hundreds of offers have already come in including some from male virgins.=A0 Natalie says she won't give up her virginity to the highest bidder.=A0 She's also seeking other qualities from her first lover. "I'm looking for intelligence and an overall nice person," said Dylan. Dylan says she ended up in a financial bind, because her stepfather allegedly used her college status to fraudulently apply for student loans, and then ran off with the money. Dylan earned her bachelor's degree in women's studies from Sacramento State and plans to get her master's at the school beginning in January. Many Sac State students say they're shocked to hear about their former clas= smate's plan, while others applaud her. "She's just giving it to some random person. And I just think she should be giving it to someone special she loves," said one student on campus. While another felt that selling her virginity for grad school "is a noble r= eason to get money." As for Natalie, after claiming to hold on to her virginity for 22 years (although the Bunny Ranch website claims she is 21-years-old), she says she has a commodity not many people have to sell. "When I was younger, I wanted 100% romance, possibly even wait for marriage.=A0 But as I grew up, reality kinda hit.=A0 And I think its a capitalistic society and I want to capitalize on this," explained Dylan. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines= & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 22:10:18 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jim Andrews Subject: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's a collection of digital literature called curated by Alan Bigelow: http://terminalapsu.org/exhibitions/digitalliterature/projects.html It includes work by me, Marvin Bell, Sommer Browning, Andy Campbell, J.R. Carpenter, Chris Joseph/Kate Pullinger, Tammy McGovern, Stuart Moulthrop, Alexander Mouton, Jason Nelson, Victoria Welby, and Jody Zellen. " is a space sponsored by the department of art and the center for the creative arts at austin peay state university to showcase and examine internet and new media art. the site is directed and maintained by barry jones, associate professor of art at austin peay state university." There's an introduction to the exhibit by Alan at http://terminalapsu.org/exhibitions/digitalliterature The exhibit is both online and offline. The offline exhibit launched this evening at at Austin Peay State University in Tennessee. My thanks to Alan and Barry Jones for putting this together. ja http://vispo.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 23:36:50 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Matias Viegener Subject: UNTITLED NEW YORK: SPECULATIONS ON THE EXPANDED FIELD OF WRITING In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable UNTITLED NEW YORK: SPECULATIONS ON THE EXPANDED FIELD OF WRITING Saturday, January 31st, 2009. Panels: 1:30pm & Readings 8:30 pm At CABINET, 300 Nevins St, Brooklyn, NY 11217 =93Untitled New York =94 is a day-long conversation about writing which = in =20 some manner exceeds the printed page. Organized by Matias Viegener =20 and Christine Wertheim, it assembles a notable group of experimental =20 writers to discuss the currently expanded and still-expanding field of =20= writing that challenges assumptions about the nature of writing and =20 the potentials of text. While we are familiar with visual artworks =20 constituted as a set of instructions, secrets written by visitors in a =20= book, or one artist erasing of another artist's work, what would be =20 their equivalents in the literary world? =93Untitled=94 is a common title of contemporary art works and also = refers =20 to the incipient moment of a new text or idea; it was chosen to convey =20= a sense of openness and process. A variety of writers and artists =20 will discuss the use of language and words and/or their object status, =20= the book and the letter, the question of the "emptiness" vs. the =20 fullness of language as a poetic medium, the pictorial versus the =20 narrative, the incorporation of extra-linguistic symbols and signs =20 (maps, diagrams, formulas, etc.), the question of conceptual writing, =20= and words off the page =96 performed, sited, projected, incanted, or =20 invoked. Among the participants is Kenny Goldsmith, an =93uncreative=94 writer = who =20 labels himself the =93most boring writer in the world=94 and writes = books =20 that include everything he said for a week (Soliloquy, 2001), every =20 move his body made during a thirteen-hour period (Fidget, 1999), and a =20= year of transcribed weather reports (The Weather, 2005). Working =20 through an interpolation of the English tongue, Christine Wertheim =20 (author of +|'me'S-pace, 2007) deploys a litteral poetics, in which =20 words are not taken as arbitrary signs the writer may use as s/he sees =20= fit, but as compounds with substance and structures and, literally, =20 meanings of their own. The broken narrative of participant Shanxing =20 Wang=92s Mad Science in Imperial City escapes and invades the political =20= turbulence of Tiananmen through math, mechanics, music, film, and by =20 dreams to create =93a work of art-in-language=94 (Lyn Hejinian). The event will begin with two panels. =93Appropriation and Citation=94 =20= will look at the many practices of appropriation so popular in the =20 literary world in the last several years, asking questions about whose =20= work and what material gets appropriated, cited or resurrected, who =20 owns texts, and if there is a difference between appropriation and =20 citation. The participants include Vanessa Place, Steven McCaffrey, =20 Kenneth Goldsmith, and Julie Patton. =93Litterality,=94 examines how writers use what we normally consider =20= non-linguistic elements, such as symbols, diagrams, maps, or scores =20 placed in the context of writing. We will also look at invented =20 writing systems, and what it might mean to think about the book as an =20= object rather than as a collection of words or sentences. Its =20 participants include Christine Wertheim, Latasha Diggs, and Shanxing =20 Wang. In the evening, beginning at 8:30 there will be a reading of the =20 participants=92 own work. =93Untitled New York=94 is a reprise of =20 =93Untitled: Speculations on the Expanded Field of Writing,=94 held in =20= October 2008 at REDCAT in Los Angeles, organized by Matias Viegener =20 and Christine Wertheim of the Writing Program at CalArts, and funded =20 by The Annenberg Foundation. =20= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 23:45:12 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Matias Viegener Subject: WOIDS 'N AHT =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?=96_3_ARTISTS_ON_TEXT_=96_?= Los Angeles, Sun Jan 25th, 2pm In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable WOIDS 'N AHT: SPECULATIONS ON THE EXPANDED FIELD OF WRITING MOCA, SUN JAN 25th 2pm 250 S GRAND, LA CA 90012 WOIDS 'N AHT is a panel on the use of text in art or the relation =20 between words and art with three artists whose work intimately =20 involves writing and language. While the literary world has moved =20 toward more conceptual and material uses of language and writing, =20 artists have been working with and in language for close to fifty =20 years. Topics may include the object status of the book and the =20 letter, the question of the "emptiness" vs. the fullness of language =20 as a medium, the pictorial vs. the narrative, the question of =20 conceptual writing, and words off the page =96 performed, sited, =20 projected, incanted, or invoked. Moderated by Juli Carson and =20 organized by Matias Viegener and Christine Wertheim of the CalArts MFA =20= Writing Program. WITH: DAVID BUNN CHARLES GAINES & MARY KELLY= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 03:37:55 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David Kirschenbaum Subject: Advertise in Boog City 54 / Urban Folk 17 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v924) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, We're hard at work here on Boog City 54, our first issue to feature =20 the relaunch of everyone's favorite local music mag, Urban Folk, as it =20= becomes a pullout in each Boog City under the helm of its editor, =20 longtime Boog City Music Editor Jonathan Berger. To see back issues of =20= Urban Folk visit: http://www.scribd.com/people/documents/90816-urbanfolk This is a quick note to see if you=92d like to advertise and reach our =20= readership. (Donations are also cool, way cool.) We=92re going to be distributing 2,250 copies of the issue throughout =20= the East Village and other parts of lower Manhattan; Williamsburg and =20= Greenpoint, Brooklyn; and at Boog City events, including a publication =20= party with readings from contributors. **Deadlines** =97Tues. Jan. 27-Submit Ad =97Tues. Feb. 10-Distribute Paper Take advantage of our indie discount ad rate. We are once again =20 offering a 50% discount on our 1/8-page ads, cutting them from $80 to =20= $40. The discount rate also applies to larger ads. For our full rate card, please visit: http://welcometoboogcity.com/boogpdfs/boog_city_ad_rates.pdf Email editor@boogcity.com or call 212-842-BOOG (2664) for more =20 information. as ever, David --=20 David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W. 28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://welcometoboogcity.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664)= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 05:41:33 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Obododimma Oha Subject: Re: Bailout MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Certainly! And in many ways we imprison ourselves. Freeing myself from my own self-incarceration has been a major challenge for me. Sometimes I ask friends to help me -- to save me from myself. -- Obododimma. ________________________________ From: Maria Damon To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 11:27:53 PM Subject: Re: Bailout what a great response! but if one is inside the house, does it make one one's own prisoner? Obododimma Oha wrote: > Sometimes it is better to lock one's doors and throw away the keys, even > when there's nothing of great value in the house. > -- Obododimma. > > > > On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 8:09 PM, Maria Damon wrote: > > >> but is it not also worthless? >> >> >> Obododimma Oha wrote: >> >> >>> No amount of money can purchase virginity. It is simply priceless. >>> -- Obododimma. >>> >>> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 2:40 PM, mIEKAL aND >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> (this piggybacks nicely on the brothel dissection...) >>>> >>>> >>>> Grad Student Selling Virginity Flooded With Offers >>>> >>>> http://cbs13.com/local/selling.virginity.tuition.2.815171.html >>>> >>>> A Sacramento State grad trying to make money by auctioning off her >>>> virginity to help pay for her graduate studies is getting lots of >>>> offers...and not just for sex. >>>> >>>> The 22-year-old who is using the pseudonym Natalie Dylan for safety >>>> reasons >>>> is going through a legal brothel in Nevada to sell her virginity. Dylan >>>> told >>>> CBS13 she's gotten an offer of $250,000. And now she's gotten an offer >>>> to >>>> do a photo spread for Penthouse magazine. >>>> >>>> The auction is being handled by the Bunny Ranch in Carson City, Nevada >>>> with >>>> bids coming in through their website. >>>> >>>> Dylan says she's already taken a polygraph test to prove her virginal >>>> status, and is also willing to undergo a medical exam. >>>> >>>> "The main purpose of this is to finance a couple things in my life," >>>> Dylan >>>> told CBS13. "I think empowerment of women is picking yourself up and >>>> doing >>>> something on your own to better yourself." >>>> >>>> So far, hundreds of offers have already come in including some from male >>>> virgins. Natalie says she won't give up her virginity to the highest >>>> bidder. She's also seeking other qualities from her first lover. "I'm >>>> looking for intelligence and an overall nice person," said Dylan. >>>> >>>> Dylan says she ended up in a financial bind, because her stepfather >>>> allegedly used her college status to fraudulently apply for student >>>> loans, >>>> and then ran off with the money. >>>> >>>> Dylan earned her bachelor's degree in women's studies from Sacramento >>>> State >>>> and plans to get her master's at the school beginning in January. >>>> >>>> Many Sac State students say they're shocked to hear about their former >>>> classmate's plan, while others applaud her. >>>> >>>> "She's just giving it to some random person. And I just think she should >>>> be >>>> giving it to someone special she loves," said one student on campus. >>>> >>>> While another felt that selling her virginity for grad school "is a noble >>>> reason to get money." >>>> >>>> As for Natalie, after claiming to hold on to her virginity for 22 years >>>> (although the Bunny Ranch website claims she is 21-years-old), she says >>>> she >>>> has a commodity not many people have to sell. >>>> >>>> "When I was younger, I wanted 100% romance, possibly even wait for >>>> marriage. But as I grew up, reality kinda hit. And I think its a >>>> capitalistic society and I want to capitalize on this," explained Dylan. >>>> >>>> ================================== >>>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>>> guidelines >>>> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines >> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> > > > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 06:00:26 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Obododimma Oha Subject: Re: Bailout MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp At college, we (students) often theorized and performed experiments with losing and regaining virginity -- "virgin" = moral$B!^(Bfear$B!^(Bselfishnext "disvirgin" = courage$B!^(Bsecret$B!^(Bloss-of-eden "re-virgin" on alum-ed H2O(for gls) $B"a(B the art of dcption +.XOXOX I listened to girls tell how they deceived their boy-friends with the alum theory! Alum saved many relationships.... ---- Obododimma ________________________________ From: Christopher Leland Winks To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 11:41:40 PM Subject: Re: Bailout Let's consider Sappho: Parthenia, parthenia, poi me lipois' apoikhe? Translated by Guy Davenport as: Girlhood O girlhood Lost of a sudden, Where have you gone? Mary Barnard translates "Parthenia" as "Maidenhead." This is probably a fragment of an epithalamium and there is a certain degree of chaffing going on here: how insubstantial, after all, is this "maidenhead"! Tne joking tone remains in the response of the bridegroom (both voices were probably enacted by Sappho's girl pupils, though bear in mind we know very little about Sappho): Ouketi exo pros se ouket'exo Translated by Davenport as: Nowhere, bride my darling Nowhere near you We're a long way from chastity belts (with thrown-away keys) and extolling of virginity! ----- Original Message ----- From: Maria Damon Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009 5:30 pm Subject: Re: Bailout To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > what a great response! > but if one is inside the house, does it make one one's own prisoner? > > Obododimma Oha wrote: > > Sometimes it is better to lock one's doors and throw away the keys, > even > > when there's nothing of great value in the house. > > -- Obododimma. > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 8:09 PM, Maria Damon wrote: > > > > > >> but is it not also worthless? > >> > >> > >> Obododimma Oha wrote: > >> > >> > >>> No amount of money can purchase virginity. It is simply priceless. > >>> -- Obododimma. > >>> > >>> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 2:40 PM, mIEKAL aND > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> (this piggybacks nicely on the brothel dissection...) > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Grad Student Selling Virginity Flooded With Offers > >>>> > >>>> http://cbs13.com/local/selling.virginity.tuition.2.815171.html > >>>> > >>>> A Sacramento State grad trying to make money by auctioning off her > >>>> virginity to help pay for her graduate studies is getting lots of > >>>> offers...and not just for sex. > >>>> > >>>> The 22-year-old who is using the pseudonym Natalie Dylan for safety > >>>> reasons > >>>> is going through a legal brothel in Nevada to sell her > virginity. Dylan > >>>> told > >>>> CBS13 she's gotten an offer of $250,000. And now she's gotten > an offer > >>>> to > >>>> do a photo spread for Penthouse magazine. > >>>> > >>>> The auction is being handled by the Bunny Ranch in Carson City, > Nevada > >>>> with > >>>> bids coming in through their website. > >>>> > >>>> Dylan says she's already taken a polygraph test to prove her virginal > >>>> status, and is also willing to undergo a medical exam. > >>>> > >>>> "The main purpose of this is to finance a couple things in my life," > >>>> Dylan > >>>> told CBS13. "I think empowerment of women is picking yourself > up and > >>>> doing > >>>> something on your own to better yourself." > >>>> > >>>> So far, hundreds of offers have already come in including some > from male > >>>> virgins. Natalie says she won't give up her virginity to the highest > >>>> bidder. She's also seeking other qualities from her first > lover. "I'm > >>>> looking for intelligence and an overall nice person," said Dylan. > >>>> > >>>> Dylan says she ended up in a financial bind, because her stepfather > >>>> allegedly used her college status to fraudulently apply for student > >>>> loans, > >>>> and then ran off with the money. > >>>> > >>>> Dylan earned her bachelor's degree in women's studies from Sacramento > >>>> State > >>>> and plans to get her master's at the school beginning in January. > >>>> > >>>> Many Sac State students say they're shocked to hear about their > former > >>>> classmate's plan, while others applaud her. > >>>> > >>>> "She's just giving it to some random person. And I just think > she should > >>>> be > >>>> giving it to someone special she loves," said one student on campus. > >>>> > >>>> While another felt that selling her virginity for grad school > "is a noble > >>>> reason to get money." > >>>> > >>>> As for Natalie, after claiming to hold on to her virginity for > 22 years > >>>> (although the Bunny Ranch website claims she is 21-years-old), > she says > >>>> she > >>>> has a commodity not many people have to sell. > >>>> > >>>> "When I was younger, I wanted 100% romance, possibly even wait for > >>>> marriage. But as I grew up, reality kinda hit. And I think its > a > >>>> capitalistic society and I want to capitalize on this," > explained Dylan. > >>>> > >>>> ================================== > >>>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > >>>> guidelines > >>>> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> ================================== > >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > >> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:40:02 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Factory School Subject: New Factory School Publications Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Now available from Factory School, Heretical Texts series: Over Here, by Frank Sherlock (104 pages) www.factoryschool.com/pubs/heretical/vol4/sherlock/ RIGHT NEW BIOLOGY, by kathryn l. pringle (80 pages) www.factoryschool.com/pubs/heretical/vol4/pringle/ Slosh Models, by Brett Evans (88 pages) www.factoryschool.com/pubs/heretical/vol4/evans/ Hegemonic Love Potion, by Jules Boykoff (104 pages) www.factoryschool.com/pubs/heretical/vol4/boykoff/ Censory Impulse, by Erica Kaufman (94 pages) www.factoryschool.com/pubs/heretical/vol4/kaufman/ All books $15 paperback, $30 hardcover -- available now through Small Press Distribution (www.spdbooks.org). VOLUME DISCOUNT: Get a complete paperback set of HT Vol. 4 for $50 (33.3% discount). Order direct from Factory School using PayPal (www.factoryschool.com/pubs/order.html). To order by check, please contact the editors. Factory School's discounted price includes shipping to the continental USA. Individuals only. For more on the HT series, visit: www.factoryschool.com/pubs/heretical/info.html For general info, please write to editors at factoryschool.org ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 05:42:56 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Obododimma Oha Subject: Re: Bailout MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Great thoughts! - -- Obododimma. ________________= =0A=0A Great thoughts!=0A- -- Obododimma.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________= ________________=0AFrom: Stephen Ellis =0ATo: POETIC= S@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=0ASent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 11:35:43 PM=0ASub= ject: Re: Bailout=0A=0AThe more conscious you become - of anything - the la= rger the house gets to be. Of course, the first thing to go is, a way to f= ind the door. It always gets more distant. And THAT is consciousness . . = . that we're ALL "one's own prisoner." In one's own Self. It goes with th= e territory. If territory is what one's buying.=0A=0A> Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2= 009 16:27:53 -0600> From: damon001@UMN.EDU> Subject: Re: Bailout> To: POETI= CS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> > what a great response!> but if one is inside the= house, does it make one one's own prisoner?> > Obododimma Oha wrote:> > So= metimes it is better to lock one's doors and throw away the keys, even> > w= hen there's nothing of great value in the house.> > -- Obododimma.> >> >> >= > > On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 8:09 PM, Maria Damon wrote:>= >> > > >> but is it not also worthless?> >>> >>> >> Obododimma Oha wrote:>= >>> >> > >>> No amount of money can purchase virginity. It is simply price= less.> >>> -- Obododimma.> >>>> >>> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 2:40 PM, mIEKAL= aND > >>> wrote:> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> > >>>> (this p= iggybacks nicely on the brothel dissection...)> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Grad Stude= nt Selling Virginity Flooded With Offers> >>>>> >>>> http://cbs13.com/local= /selling.virginity.tuition.2.815171.html> >>>>> >>>> A Sacramento State grad trying to make money by auctioning off her> >= >>> virginity to help pay for her graduate studies is getting lots of> >>>>= offers...and not just for sex.> >>>>> >>>> The 22-year-old who is using th= e pseudonym Natalie Dylan for safety> >>>> reasons> >>>> is going through a= legal brothel in Nevada to sell her virginity. Dylan> >>>> told> >>>> CBS1= 3 she's gotten an offer of $250,000. And now she's gotten an offer> >>>> to= > >>>> do a photo spread for Penthouse magazine.> >>>>> >>>> The auction is= being handled by the Bunny Ranch in Carson City, Nevada> >>>> with> >>>> b= ids coming in through their website.> >>>>> >>>> Dylan says she's already t= aken a polygraph test to prove her virginal> >>>> status, and is also willi= ng to undergo a medical exam.> >>>>> >>>> "The main purpose of this is to f= inance a couple things in my life,"> >>>> Dylan> >>>> told CBS13. "I think = empowerment of women is picking yourself up and> >>>> doing> >>>> something on your own to better yourself."> >>>>> >>>> So far, hundreds of= offers have already come in including some from male> >>>> virgins. Natali= e says she won't give up her virginity to the highest> >>>> bidder. She's a= lso seeking other qualities from her first lover. "I'm> >>>> looking for in= telligence and an overall nice person," said Dylan.> >>>>> >>>> Dylan says = she ended up in a financial bind, because her stepfather> >>>> allegedly us= ed her college status to fraudulently apply for student> >>>> loans,> >>>> = and then ran off with the money.> >>>>> >>>> Dylan earned her bachelor's de= gree in women's studies from Sacramento> >>>> State> >>>> and plans to get = her master's at the school beginning in January.> >>>>> >>>> Many Sac State= students say they're shocked to hear about their former> >>>> classmate's = plan, while others applaud her.> >>>>> >>>> "She's just giving it to some r= andom person. And I just think she should> >>>> be> >>>> giving it to someone special she loves," said one student on campus.> >>>>> >>>> Whi= le another felt that selling her virginity for grad school "is a noble> >>>= > reason to get money."> >>>>> >>>> As for Natalie, after claiming to hold = on to her virginity for 22 years> >>>> (although the Bunny Ranch website cl= aims she is 21-years-old), she says> >>>> she> >>>> has a commodity not man= y people have to sell.> >>>>> >>>> "When I was younger, I wanted 100% roman= ce, possibly even wait for> >>>> marriage. But as I grew up, reality kinda = hit. And I think its a> >>>> capitalistic society and I want to capitalize = on this," explained Dylan.> >>>>> >>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> >>>> Th= e Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check> >>>> guidel= ines> >>>> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html> >= >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> > >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines> >> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/p= oetics/welcome.html> >>> >> > >> >> >> > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> T= he Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines = & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A___________= ______________________________________________________=0AWindows Live=99 Ho= tmail=AE: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail. =0Ahttp://windowslive.com/= howitworks?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_hm_justgotbetter_howitworks_012009=0A=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0AThe Poetics List is moderated & does not accept = all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetic= s/welcome.html=0A=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 09:00:55 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: Bailout Comments: To: lmrussell04@yahoo.com In-Reply-To: <194305.45197.qm@web36107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Honest/honesty = not having lied, cheated, stolen etc. Blind/blindness = not having seen Mute/muteness = not having spoken Etc. Hal "If you can't annoy somebody, what's the point in writing?" --Kingsley Amis Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jan 15, 2009, at 11:29 PM, Lauren Russell wrote: > Can any experience besides sex claim a word devoted just to not > having done it? ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 10:21:56 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Sarah Sarai Subject: Re: Bailout Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain Based on the quotations in the article I can't but imagine I'd be banging= my head against a=20 wall by the end of a conversation with Dylan: "'And I think its a=20 capitalistic society and I want to capitalize on this,' explained Dylan."= If this were for an=20 undergrad degree I might be upset, might be--who knows--but my cynicism a= bout graduate=20 degree and grad programs in general inclines me towards a Let the Crime F= it the Crime or=20 the Punishment Fit the Punishment perspective.=20=20 She's in Sacramento, right? No Casterbridge, that city, although Dylan m= ight want to=20 reread Hardy's novel (The Mayor of Casterbridge) and consider implication= s for tragedy.=20=20 (Henchard sells his wife and daughter.)=20=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 09:42:29 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: American painter Andrew Wyeth dies at 91 - Yahoo! News In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable American painter Andrew Wyeth dies at 91 - Yahoo! News >=20 http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090116/ap_on_en_ot/obit_andrew_wyeth >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live=99 Hotmail=AE: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail.=20 http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_hm_justgotbetter_expl= ore_012009= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 11:10:46 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: cris cheek Subject: A Radically Inclusive Online Anthology of Responses to the Inauguration of the President-Elect Barack Obama MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We are looking for "correspondents" to perform throughout these historical moments we are not expecting "proper" reporting, but passionate, off-the-cuff, provocative, oblique, creative, thick descriptive and off-the-wall contributions. The links DO NOT GO LIVE until this SATURDAY 17th January!!! ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE PLEASE circulate this INVITATION to PARTICIPATE as widely as you possibly can and PLEASE apologize in advance and accept our apology for any cross-posting and multiple copies of this invitation that you receive. A Radically Inclusive Online Anthology of Responses to the Inauguration of the President-Elect Barack Obama Presenting a monument to tolerance and an experiment in radical democracy: post _ moot will go LIVE on January 17th-21st 2009 - - - right through the Inauguration Easy to take part!! Send ANY and ALL responses to this historic event (no matter what your point of view) . . . in TEXT, POEM, PHOTO, SOUND-FILE, SPEECH, SONG, TWEET and SHORT VIDEO forms. MAKE YOUR Contribution now!! Comment: - - : * www.postmoot.net * Email: postmoot@gmail.net Tweets: http://twitter.com/postmoot Sound/photo/vid: post@postmoot.posterous.com This is an initiative of the post _ moot collective (cris cheek, william r. howe and cathy wagner) in collaboration with Christian McLean ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ For All other information please Contact: postmoot@gmail.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 09:41:35 -0800 Reply-To: lmrussell04@yahoo.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Lauren Russell Subject: Re: Bailout Comments: To: Halvard Johnson In-Reply-To: <6704D2E6-D901-4D00-A22B-6EDD8484CB53@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I don't know.=A0 Maybe this is a ridiculously fine point, but I see a disti= nction of tense.=A0 Blindness is not seeing (not being able to see), mutene= ss is not speaking (not being able to speak), and they are therefore more a= kin to celibacy, not having sex, than to virginity, not having had sex.=A0= =20 Lauren --- On Fri, 1/16/09, Halvard Johnson wrote: From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: Bailout To: lmrussell04@yahoo.com Cc: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Friday, January 16, 2009, 10:00 AM Honest/honesty =3D not having lied, cheated, stolen etc. Blind/blindness =3D not having seen Mute/muteness =3D not having spoken Etc. Hal "If you can't annoy somebody, what's the point in writing?" --Kingsley Amis Halvard Johnson =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jan 15, 2009, at 11:29 PM, Lauren Russell wrote: > Can any experience besides sex claim a word devoted just to not having done it? =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 13:56:30 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: name of French poet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit my guess too ponge On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 15:59:35 -0500 Charlotte Mandel writes: > Would it be Francis Ponge? > Charlotte > > On Jan 15, 2009, at 12:15 PM, John Cunningham wrote: > > I'm trying to recall the name of the French poet who referred to his > > poems > as "promes"? > > John Herbert Cunningham > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 14:19:33 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: Can "nature" poetry be postmodern/post-structural? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit well we all opersate partially from our natural rhythms and those that are around us i don't think it's so much about moving away from but being encompassed by or attracted to etc i coukd go on for pages ...but seeing the sinlight on the kitchen chair speaks volumes...brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:37:37 -0600 Mary Jo Malo writes: > Yes, Steve, it's everywhere as others have also remarked. What > puzzled > me was this statement: > > "Contemporary urban poets have moved away from Wordsworth and the > Romantics, whose metaphors were shaped by sublime natural forces, > whose rhythms were so often set by the cycles of nature. The newer > language of art emanates from the human-built environment, from the > streets, from computers. This urban or electronic expression of > creativity speaks to and for modern ears and eyes, and it has its > own > rhythms and metaphors." (Last Child In The Woods...Richard Louv) > > Experts in one field often feel qualified to make uninformed > comments > regarding other fields. It's obvious there are environments of > poetry > he's never dared to wander. > > Mary Jo > > -- > http://thisshiningwound.blogspot.com/ > http://apophisdeconstructingabsurdity.blogspot.com/ > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 17:03:26 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Michael Heller Subject: New Book Comments: cc: poetryetc@jiscmail.ac.uk, UKPOETRY@LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU, british-irish-poets@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ESCHATON by MICHAEL HELLER Talisman House, Publishers ISBN 13: 978-1-58498-066-7, $14.95 Available from: SPD, Amazon.com, Greenfields=20 (www.gfibooks.com) and good bookstores. Like the Renaissance and Neo-classical poets who=20 speculated on the Great Chain of Being and=20 microcosm-macrocosm relationships, Heller=20 communicates a vision of human life as related to=20 natural processes of great intricacy and=20 magnitude. He strains his mind and the reader to=20 find the relationships between our experience and=20 these processes in the material world, but the=20 sense of magnificence is worth the strain. =ADParnassus: Poetry in Review He=92s a somewhat latter-day Jewish Yeats, full of=20 terror and joy, trying to make some sense of the=20 chaotic destructiveness of the 20th century in=20 lyric poetry. It is a heroic if impossible task. =ADThe East Hampton Star . . . a singular address to unknowingness. =ADConfrontation Mr. Heller=92s book is intent on inquiry, full of=20 rumination...filled with illumination. His is a=20 questing intelligence, forever on the trail of=20 the epistemological, the 'flimsy beatitudes of=20 order=92. =ADThe New York Times Book Review Michael Heller is a poet, essayist and critic.=20 His most recent collection of poetry is Exigent=20 Futures: New and Selected Poems (2003). He is the=20 author of two autobiographical works, Earth and=20 Cave (2007) and Living Root: A Memoir (2001), and his critical books include Speaking=20 the Estranged: Essays on the Work of George Oppen=20 (2008), Uncertain Poetries: Essays on Poets,=20 Poetry and Poetics (2006), and his prize-winning=20 book on the Objectivist poets, Conviction's Net=20 of Branches (1985). His collection of short=20 fiction, Two Novellas, will be published in 2009. Eschaton (new poems) Talisman House Publishers=20 (2009) available at SPD, Greenfield Distribution=20 (www.gfibooks.com), www. amazon.com and good=20 bookstores. Speaking The Estranged: Essays on the=20 Work of George Oppen (2008); Uncertain Poetries:=20 Essays on Poets, Poetry and Poetics (2005) and=20 Exigent Futures: New and Selected Poems (2003)=20 available at www.saltpublishing.com, amazon.com=20 and good bookstores. Survey of work at=20 http://www.thing.net/~grist/ld/heller.htm=20 Collaborations with the composer Ellen Fishman=20 Johnson at=20 http://www.efjcomposer.com/EFJ/Collaborations.html=20 Recordings at http://writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/Heller.html =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 16:46:02 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Housecat Kung Fu: Strange Poems For Wild Children by Geoffrey Gatza Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D MERITAGE PRESS ANNOUNCEMENT Housecat Kung Fu: Strange Poems For Wild Children By Geoffrey Gatza Release Date: 2009 ISBN: 978-0-9794119-6-0 Price: U.S. $16.00 For more info: www.meritagepress.com and MeritagePress@aol.com Geoffrey Gatza's poetry for children has been one of the greatest secrets i= n contemporary poetry.=A0 Meritage Press is delighted to share this secret by releasing Gatza's inaugural book of poetry for children (of all ages): Housecat Kung Fu.=A0=20 To celebrate Gatza's historic release, Meritage Press is pleased to announc= e a RELEASE SPECIAL. For orders received through February 28, 2009, the book will be available at a 25% discount for $12.00. There will be free shippin= g as well to U.S. residents (if you are based outside of the U.S., please email MeritagePress@aol.com for the logistics). You can order by sending a check made out to "Meritage Press" to Eileen Tabios Publisher, Meritage Press 256 North Fork Crystal Springs Rd. St. Helena, CA 94574 Gatza is the author of seven other books of poetry; his Not So Fast Robespierre and Kenmore: Poem Unlimited are available from Menendez Publishing.=A0 He is also the editor and publisher of BlazeVOX [books].=A0 Gatz= a lives in Kenmore, New York.=A0 More information about him is available at http://geoffreygatza.com and http://blazevox.org . Meritage Press is pleased to share an excerpt from one of the many delightful poems in Housecat Kung Fu -- this is from "Lorikeet Landing": Last Wednesday I overheard a rainbow colored bird say wouldn't you bring to me a listening booth and a swimming tree a comfy ocean chair and some sand from Waikiki a wisdom tooth and a cup of crystal tea a mystical flying mare and a large screen TV or maybe a common pea and a castle floating in air Buy the book here at Amazon.com Available now $16 =20 =20 ALSO NOW AVAILABLE =20 Kenmore: Poem Unlimited The best actors in the world, either for tragedy, comedy, history, pastoral, pastoral-comical, historical-pastoral, tragical-historical, tragical- comical-historical-pastoral, scene individable, or poem unlimited LORD POLONIUS, The Tragedy of Hamlet, Prince of Denmark Act 2, Scene 2 In Geoffrey Gatza's latest collection he gives us his instructions for this book, "The way to/the other/Is found in/the not other." While not looking for the exact similar, he continues "fishing in the sewer gate" as he heads backwards and into his home town. But his home town, and the investigation, must include the poet's being brought up in Catholicism. In addition to the Bible, he uses other (there is that word again) canonical works of the West (the Ancient Greeks must have made quite an impression!). At times epic, at other times lyric, Gatza continues his fusion cuisine aesthetic while he feels "strange about it but I place / Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade / In the DVD player and smoke a pipe." So, pop some popcorn, get some smokes, and read about this movie cum poem. =8BKevin Thurston In this exhilarating investigation marking the overdetermined space of relation between the arbitrary character of language and the singular materiality of place, Gatza insists =B3Kenmore may hold the key to our stability=8A.=B2 Kenmore, he tells us, is an otherwise anonymous village in Eerie Country, NY on the outskirts of Buffalo=8Ba village that could be any and every village but is, in the materiality of its ordinariness, singularl= y unique. Like Kerouac's Lowell, O'Hara's New York or Olson's Gloucester, Gatza's Kenmore is an interminably unfolding geo-social space exhaustively filtered through the shifting textures of a kinetic imagination always in overdrive. =8BRichard Owens Synopsis: It is the way things change that brings the myth to Kenmore, the poet's hometown. This collection of poems is one work, divided. Blending two stories, the story of Gwion And The Wisdom Potion taken from the Mabinogi and the apocryphal apocalyptic text, The Book of Enoch. Through Devils, Giants and Dream Visions; A Magic Silver Fish of Wisdom, a witch and maple keys, the poet passes through life to a rebirth in the womb of a witch to a new life to a death that begins to look like life only to come back to find providence is truly suburbia. =20 Buy the book here Available now $16 Kenmore: Poem Unlimited By Geoffrey Gatza Goss 183 Casa Menendez 110 Pages ISBN is 1440463115 EAN-13 is 9781440463112 http://www.geoffreygatza.com/Kenmore/vol1.htm --=20 Best, Geoffrey Geoffrey Gatza Editor & Publisher ------------------------------------- BlazeVOX [ books ] Publisher of weird little books -------------------------------------- editor@blazevox.org http://www.blazevox.org http://www.blazevox.org http://www.geoffreygatza.com/ http://www.blazevox.org/blog Not So Fast Robespierre by Geoffrey Gatza http://www.lulu.com/content/1767006 NOW Available from Menendez Publishing =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 20:32:33 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Peter Ciccariello Subject: Stephen Vincent at the Braunstein/Quay Gallery Comments: To: "Poetryetc: poetry and poetics" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In case you may have missed it, take a look at several of *Stephen Vincent's stunning Haptics * exhibited at the Braunstein/Quay Gallery in San Francisco. Best, - Peter Ciccariello ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 23:36:25 +0100 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: About Poetry: Presidential Inauguration Poetry & "Where the He/art Pants" Election Anthology In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Thank you to both: Ruth Lepson and David-Baptiste Chirot. Have a nice evening, Anny On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 3:12 AM, Ruth Lepson wrote= : > led to a fascinating chain > > > On 1/15/09 9:18 AM, "David-Baptiste Chirot" > wrote: > > > Along with About Poetry's selections and thoughts, also a reminder re > Election > > Anthology "Where the He/art Pants" edited by Anny Ballardini and > > Obododimma-which is also about the inaugeration-- > > > > > > > > > > > http://poetry.about.com/b/2009/01/15/poetry-and-the-presidential-inaugura= tion > . > > htm > > > > > > > > > > From Bob Holman & Margery Snyder > > > > Poetry > > came into the public eye numerous times during the 2008 U.S. > > Presidential election campaign, and the poetry world has been buzzing > > with excitement and bustling with suggestions since the election, > > especially as it became evident that poetry would have a role to play > > in next Tuesday's inauguration ceremony and celebration > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Poetry and the Presidential Inauguration Whi= le > > we're all waiting for Elizabeth Alexander's inaugural poem, let's > > reread the few poems that have marked earlier Presidential > > inaugurations... and a sampling of "unofficial" poems written for > > Barack Obama's inauguration by poets around the country.... read more > > *=B7* While the He/art > > Pants: >(Poetic > > Responses to the 2008 American Elections) > > *=B7* Editorial: Obododimma > > Oha > > *=B7* Editorial: Anny > > Ballardini > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Windows Live Hotmail(R): Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail. > > > http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_hm_justgotbetter= _howitw > > orks_012009 > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & > > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > --=20 Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3Dpoetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 18:50:34 -0800 Reply-To: poet_in_hell@yahoo.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve russell Subject: Re: Simone Weil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I mentioned Simone Weil earlier, but forgot to add -- i think it was during the late 80's when books such as "The Dancing Woo Lee Masters" and "The Tao of Physics" came out. Suddenly, Eastern thought became very fashionable. I'm attracted to writers of extreme, obsessive vision. Simone certainly qualifies. Ditto Pascal. Still, it's hard not to be embarressed admitting an attraction to a writer who happens to be Christian as the tradition has been contaminated by so much dopey junk. Sad. But I refuse to throw away Augustine or Flannery O' Conner because of a few idiots. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 21:59:28 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jim Andrews Subject: e to a friend about a philosophy of computer art MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit recently a prof at ubc wrote me asking permission to use some screenshots from my work. he's writing a book called 'a philosophy of computer art'. now, that's interesting to me. how would i write such a thing myself? well, i'm not sure, but what i want to say in this e to you, mike, is that i would regard it as important in such a book to involve the theory of computation in some ways. could we say that the big picture of the theory of computation is about what can be done with/by computers and what can't? it's richly ironic that the turing machine fell out of turing's main work of solving the Entscheidungsproblem. he was out to solve a math problem, mainly, not invent the computer. and the turing machine was invented to show that there are some tasks no machine can complete. not to do amazing things with the machine, but to show that there are some things no machine can do. the greatest machine ever invented was invented to show that there are some things no machine can ever do. that's poetic. but we also see that it was invented to plumb the reaches of what is possible with machines. what would this have to do with a philosophy of computer art? well, i would think that a philosophy of computer art should have a firm grasp on the theoretical nature and limits of computers. the poetics of computer art should include the theory of computation as one of the erm 'touchstones'. but it and art are generally worlds apart. there's so much fear about our relation to machines. similar to the reaction to darwin's ideas, in his day. just as people felt that it diminishes humanity to think all living things on earth descend from common forms, people feel that it diminishes humanity to think that there probably are no thought processes of which humans are capable and computers are not. but just as we now see Darwinism in a different light--we don't feel diminished by it, but are opening our eyes to the wonders it helps reveal--about ourselves, our history, and all living things on the planet, and our shared history--so too, i imagine, over time, will we start to open our eyes to the mysteries and solutions that are raised in the idea that we are basically machines--amazing machines, but machines nonetheless. poetry is partly about who and what we are. poetry that can deal suitably with the notion that we are machines is needed, just as art and other expressions that reveal the visions of darwinism was and still is needed. so that we might be both rational and fully human, see the beauty in what truly is. ja ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 02:22:34 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Alan Sondheim Subject: these are good, great, i don't havemuch to say about them, they'll have to MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed these are good, great, i don't havemuch to say about them, they'll have to carry their own weight, that's difficult perhaps for you to receive them in this mannewr, used, as you might be, to receivethem with explanation, description,at least theory, that's here somewhere, but there are so many now, it would be impossible, at least with this group, to do more than present them, hope you view at least a )few) - then draw your own conclusions, the reign of production is constant here, i'm just preparing these as a 'new batch' - you understand, at least with this batch, the primacy of the visual, notalways though, sometimes hardly at all - the theoretical takes over - but these have so many small or large themes, mpomments, concepts, what have you - so they might stand on their own, but replete, fecund, too much, too many, sdefuge sets in and then there's just one more image, the fnal image you'll see before you'r exhausted, and it's )that_ image that entrances you that you'll remember.. - http://www.alansondheim.org/meditation1.png http://www.alansondheim.org/meditation2.png http://www.alansondheim.org/meditation3.png http://www.alansondheim.org/meditation4.png http://www.alansondheim.org/meditation5.png http://www.alansondheim.org/meditation6.png http://www.alansondheim.org/meditation7.png http://www.alansondheim.org/meditation8.png http://www.alansondheim.org/swing.mov http://www.alansondheim.org/swing1.png http://www.alansondheim.org/swing2.png http://www.alansondheim.org/swing3.png http://www.alansondheim.org/swing4.png http://www.alansondheim.org/swing5.png http://www.alansondheim.org/swing6.png http://www.alansondheim.org/swing7.png http://www.alansondheim.org/bifurcate1.png http://www.alansondheim.org/bifurcate2.png http://www.alansondheim.org/bifurcate3.png http://www.alansondheim.org/bifurcate4.png http://www.alansondheim.org/rain8.png http://www.alansondheim.org/rain9.png http://www.alansondheim.org/ruh1.jpg http://www.alansondheim.org/ruh2.jpg http://www.alansondheim.org/ruh3.jpg ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 10:56:00 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Camille Martin Subject: Camille Martin Salutes Obama on CKLN=?Windows-1252?Q?=92s_=93In_Other_Words=94?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 A Salute to Obama on His Inauguration: Unlikely Sound Poets for an Unlikely President Ryerson University=92s CKLN, 88.1 FM Tuesday, January 20, 2:00 =96 3:00 pm Online listening: http://www.ckln.fm As John Stewart put it so eloquently, the US is celebrating the election of= its first Hawaiian president =96 and his middle name is Hussein! Holy brok= en barriers! To celebrate Obama=92s inauguration on Tuesday, I will feature a set of unl= ikely sound poets =96 OK it=92s a bit of a stretch since I had planned this= set before I realized that my show would coincide with the inauguration. B= ut it seemed somehow fitting. So I lift my champagne glass to the breath of= fresh air who is Obama while I air some unlikely candidates for the sound = poetry rubric =96 a babbling baby, Yma Sumac (anyone remember her?), Oklaho= ma glossolalia, diddlers, a bird imitation or two, and Marie Osmond perform= ing Hugo Ball=92s Karawane (yep). To continue my symbolic salute to Obama, I'll do a set alternating between = between Canadian and American sound poets to signify renewed friendship bet= ween the =93z=94 and the =93zed=94 tribes. Bottoms up! Camille Martin =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 10:56:44 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Pierre Joris Subject: New Nomadics Posts Comments: To: Britis-Irish List Comments: cc: "Poetryetc: poetry and poetics" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed check out these new Nomadics posts here: http://pjoris.blogspot.com/ Douglas Oliver on Kindness Rosa Luxemburg: 90 years ago The pornography of horror (part2) The pornography of horror And There Lie the Bodies Zinc Bar Reading Inger Christensen (1935-2009) & enjoy the cold (only 63 days left to spring...) Pierre ================================================= "Play what you don't know" -- Sun Ra ================================================= Pierre Joris 244 Elm Street Albany NY 12202-1310 h: 518 426 0433 c: 518 225 7123 o: 518 442 40 71 Euro cell: (011 33) 6 75 43 57 10 email: joris@albany.edu http://pierrejoris.com blog:http://pjoris.blogspot.com/ ================================================= ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 13:15:48 -0500 Reply-To: az421@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Rob McLennan Subject: newish on rob's clever blog -- from "missing persons" (fiction) -- notes from a sad phoenician (poem) -- house: a (tiny) memoir -- Imaginary Haibun for Lea Graham -- house: a (tiny) memoir -- notes for a sad phoenician -- Ours by Cole Swensen -- house: a (tiny) memoir -- The Withdrawl Method, stories by Pasha Malla -- notes for a sad phoenician -- Today is Kates 18th birthday -- West Coast Line # 57 (42.1): Miki -- Billy Little (1943-2009) -- notes for a sad phoenician -- my vocabulary did this to me: The Collected Poetry of Jack Spicer, eds. Peter Gizzi and Kevin Killian -- Lea Graham, Jennifer Mulligan & rob mclennan reading -- Asher Ghaffars Wasps in a Golden Dream Hum a Strange Music -- Counterfeit by Christine Leclerc -- Another Christmas in Old Glengarry -- Robert Kroetsch's Excerpts from the Real World -- Worth repeating: Ben Okri, Of Poets and Their Antagonists -- Ongoing notes: late December, 2008 (Other Voices: Journal of the Literary and Visual Arts; L'Aviva by Nicole Brossard, translated by Anne-Marie Wheeler; Fred Wah's Dark Matter & Other Radicals) -- What kind of city would you like to live in? -- Blues and Bliss: The Poetry of George Elliott Clarke, ed. Jon Paul Fiorentino -- Letters to Poets: Conversations about Poetics, Politics, and Community, eds. Jennifer Firestone & Dana Teen Lomax -- Interview with Roger Farr, CUE Books (Capilano University Editions) -- Ongoing notes: some magazines (FENCE, The Capilano Review) -- cocktails, the chateau laurier, etcetera (lainna); -- Katia Grubisic, What if red ran out www.robmclennan.blogspot.com + some other new things at the alberta, writing blog www.albertawriting.blogspot.com + some other new things at ottawa poetry newsletter, www.ottawapoetry.blogspot.com + some other new things at the Chaudiere Books blog, www.chaudierebooks.blogspot.com -- writer/editor/publisher ...STANZAS mag, above/ground press & Chaudiere Books (www.chaudierebooks.com) ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...13th poetry coll'n - The Ottawa City Project ...novel - white www.abovegroundpress.blogspot.com * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 21:39:19 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: American Book Awards MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 now on the Heatstrings blog -- photos and sound from the 2008 American Book Awards at Anna's Jazz Island in Berkeley -- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> "Study the fine art of coming apart." --Jerry W. Ward, Jr. Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 10:07:33 -0800 Reply-To: steph484@pacbell.net Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Eyeless in Gaza Comments: To: "Poetryetc: poetry and poetics" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Can you imagine a land devastated, one without any remaining architecture? Can you imagine such a land composed and spoken entirely of sentences in a language so orderly, so lyric and so radiant that its refu= gees - though starving and otherwise defenseless - wander about (dancing, walk= ing, loitering) without grief or resentment? =93There are certain things impossible to take away,=94 these citizens will insist. =93The construction of poetry, its edification is not only our bread and water. = It is our architecture.=94 =20 =A0=20 To the contrary, many among us, no matter the poetry, no matter the sentences, the songs - as though again =91Eyeless in Gaza=92 -=A0 come to nothing in wordless, appalled silence. =20 =A0=20 As Israel destroys itself in horrific anger. =20 =A0=20 from "Homeless Blankets - A Winter Series" on the blog, photographs et al,=A0 at:=20 http://stephenvincent.net/blog/wp-admin/post.php?action=3Dedit&post=3D704 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 07:53:25 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Democracy Now! --Palestinian and American Indian perspectives on their dehumanization MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable watch/listen go to: http://www.democrac ynow.org/ 2009/1/16/ bloody_israeli_ assault_on_ gaza_e= nters watch/listen go to: http://www.democrac ynow.org/ 2009/1/16/ bloody_israeli_ assault_on_ gaza_enters Many books=2C articles=2C writings by myself =2C have noted similarities in= the actions=2C rhetoric and over all goals which have been used against the American Indians and the Palestinians.=20 If one is familiar with even a bit of the dehumanizing=20 terms=2C names=2C lies=2C and justifications for things beyond unjust used = regarding one of these peoples=2C then one will readily recognize it when turning to= the other. Today/night on Democracy Now! Three guests address what it is like on the silenced side of the Wall=2C the side of dehumanized existence. President Clinton was known for his "friends of Bill=2C" and perhaps President Obama has already added a new wrinkle=2C with the "former friends of Barack."=20 Khalid Rashidi is one of these "former friends" who was left out in the old while undergoing massive attacks fro Gov Palin=2C Sen McClain and t= he Fox Bellowers of Rightwing Righteousness. In the interview with Amy Goodman he speaks eloquently of the current events in Gaza and the role of the US there=2C via massive (many illegal under American Law) shipments of weapons= =2C gigantic infusions of cash (8=2C000=2C000$ a day) and the full support of t= he US's politicians and media=2C despite a rising tide of protest among the America= n Jewish Community along with a great many other organizations. Dr. Rashidi also points out the difficulty in the USA of presenting information regarding Gaza and Palestinian questions historically in the US media. As an example he points to the day's NY Times article on the bombing of UN headquarters in G= aza=2C which was packed with al the recently arrived deliveries of food and fuel f= or people who have been steadily starving over the course of the last two year= s=2C until almost complete starvation levels are being reached in the last months. Dr Rashidi points out the Times article takes up ten paragraphs given the justifications for this bombing=2C with the newspaper basically w= orking as a conduit through which the IDF funnels its versions of events=2C despite their compl= ete contradiction to the reports from International aid workers at the scene. =20 In a sense this media control creates another Wall behind which the Palestinians are hidden and cut of from the world=2C while Americans receiv= e only a propagandistic and dehumanized view of Palestinians and their slaughter. = If one goes through the history of reporting on American Indians=2C even to= this day=2C the dehumanization is strongly present. The consequences of th= e dehumanization of persons are only all too well known=2C all over the wor= ld. Dr Suleiman Baraka is interviewed also=2C a Palestinian Astrophysicist at Virginia Tech who tells of learning over the phone his mother and son have = been critically injured when a one ton bomb was dropped on their house. This is one of the most moving interviews I have ever seen on War=2C all wars=2C an= d its effects on an entire extended family as it steadily loses its members. With the pardon of Marc Rich back in the news due to the questioning of the nominee for Attorney general Mr. Eric Holder=2C Amy Goodwin interviews the writer Louise Erdrich for a perspective from one American Indian=92s view (= though is shared by all) of Clinton's pardoning a mega scumbag and fugitive from justice like Rich=2C while denying any clemency to Leonard Peltier=2C impri= soned now 35 years due to a rigged trial=2C for shooting FBI agents during an enc= ounter with the AIM (American Indian Movement--for a number of years classified as= a "terrorist" organization by the US Govt.) Also two reports on a Palestinian Doctor who papers frequently on Israeli T= V=2C learning of the deaths of his children form an Israeli bombing =20 January 16=2C 2009 Bloody Israeli Assault on Gaza Enters Fourth Week=2C Palestinian Death Toll= Tops 1=2C100 Guest: Rashid Khalidi=2C Edward Said Professor of Arab Studies at Columbia Univers= ity. His forthcoming book is Sowing Crisis: The Cold War and American Hegem= ony in the Middle East. He joins us in the firehouse studio. It's Day 21 of Israel's assault on Gaza. Israeli warplanes attacked forty targets across Gaza overnight=2C as Israeli troops backed by tanks have pushed deep into the heart of Gaza City. Since Israel started its bombardment of Gaza=2C over 1=2C100 Palestinians have been killed and more than 5=2C200 wounded. At least 700 civilians are among the dead=2C including more than 350 children. We speak with Columbia University Professor Rashid Khalidi. [includes rush transcript] Real Video Stream Real Audio Stream MP3 Download More=85 =20 =20 =20 Guest: Rashid Khalidi=2C Edward Said Professor of Arab Studies at Columbia Univers= ity. His forthcoming book is Sowing Crisis: The Cold War and American Hegem= ony in the Middle East. He joins us in the firehouse studio. =09 to listen/watch go to:=20 http://www.democrac ynow.org/ 2009/1/16/ palestinian_ father_in_ us_recount= s_ how =09 =09 January 16=2C 2009 Palestinian Astrophysicist in US Recounts How His 11-Year-Old Son Died When= Israeli Warplanes Bombed His Family's House As the Palestinian death toll in Israel's assault on Gaza climbs above 1=2C100=2C we take a look behind the statistics. Suleiman Baraka is a Palestinian astrophysicist working at Virgnia Tech with NASA. His eleven-year- old son Ibrahim was killed in an Israeli air strike on his house. His wife and three other children are now homeless in Gaza=2C along with seventeen members of his family. In his first broadcast interview in the US=2C Suleiman Baraka tells his story. We also speak with Suleiman's brother=2C Sayed=2C who arrived at the house seconds after it was bombed. [includes rush transcript] http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/middleeast/features/article_1453957.= php/Tragic_Palestinian_war_drama_unfolds_on_Israeli_tv__News_Feature__ Clock link to read full story Tragic Palestinian war drama unfolds on Israeli tv (News Feature) Middle Ea= st Features By Shabtai Gold=20 Jan 16=2C 2009=2C 18:55 GMT Tel Aviv - A Palestinian doctor from Gaza who was a regular guest on Israe= li television Friday called a reporter who had interviewed him many times=2C screaming frantically that his house had just been bombed by the military.=20 =20 'My girls=2C oh god=2C they've killed my girls=2C' cried Ezz al-Din Abu al-Aish=2C the doctor=2C as the Israeli reporter held his mobile phone to the microphone during a live broadcast. =20 Abu al-Aish's home in Beit Lahiya=2C in the northern Gaza Strip=2C had j= ust been hit by a shell=2C fired by Israeli soldiers. =20 =20 The doctor works as a gynecologist at both hospitals in Gaza as well as the Tel Hashomer medical center in Israel and speaks fluent Hebrew=2C making him an ideal guest for the television.=20 'I hope anyone who can hear us=2C the military=2C the red cross=2C can get there=2C' the emotional reporter=2C Shlomi Eldar said=2C announcing the exact location of the doctor's home=2C hoping help would arrive quickly.=20 Eldar then went off-camera to call his numerous contacts in Israel and t= ry and get the family assistance. =20 Medical teams have reported extreme limitations on their movement during= the ongoing Israeli military campaign. =20 =20 Three girls of the doctor's eight children died in the attack=2C two others were injured as was he=2C and they were taken to hospitals in Israel.=20 The doctor had become a mainstay on Channel 10=2C giving daily updates to Eldar and other reporters on the unfolding Israeli offensive in the Gaza Strip=2C and adding his own moderate political message. Clock link to read rest of the story =20 =20 Palestinian doctor who gave war dispatches to Israeli TV reports 3=20 daughters' deaths:=20 =20 The Palestinian doctor provided Israeli TV viewers with regular updates on= =20 Gaza fighting's human toll. But Friday's report was different - with sobs = he=20 told how his three daughters and a niece were killed by an Israeli shell. http://tinyurl.com/9qrje9Sponsored Link:=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live=99: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_012009= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 19:05:58 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: e to a friend about a philosophy of computer art In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit it does seem threatening to humanity to think that the human mind is strictly mechanical loosely, but i would caution anyone who thinks that the limitations on computability apply human minds to read hubert dreyfus's "what computers still can't do" very carefully as it is quite good on precisely the ways in which some human activities are differentiated from things that computers are capable of. On Jan 16, 2009, at 9:59 PM, Jim Andrews wrote: > recently a prof at ubc wrote me asking permission to use some > screenshots > from my work. he's writing a book called 'a philosophy of computer > art'. > now, that's interesting to me. how would i write such a thing myself? > > well, i'm not sure, but what i want to say in this e to you, mike, > is that i > would regard it as important in such a book to involve the theory of > computation in some ways. could we say that the big picture of the > theory of > computation is about what can be done with/by computers and what > can't? > > it's richly ironic that the turing machine fell out of turing's > main work of > solving the Entscheidungsproblem. he was out to solve a math problem, > mainly, not invent the computer. and the turing machine was > invented to show > that there are some tasks no machine can complete. not to do > amazing things > with the machine, but to show that there are some things no machine > can do. > the greatest machine ever invented was invented to show that there > are some > things no machine can ever do. that's poetic. > > but we also see that it was invented to plumb the reaches of what is > possible with machines. > > what would this have to do with a philosophy of computer art? well, > i would > think that a philosophy of computer art should have a firm grasp on > the > theoretical nature and limits of computers. the poetics of computer > art > should include the theory of computation as one of the erm > 'touchstones'. > > but it and art are generally worlds apart. > > there's so much fear about our relation to machines. similar to the > reaction > to darwin's ideas, in his day. just as people felt that it diminishes > humanity to think all living things on earth descend from common > forms, > people feel that it diminishes humanity to think that there > probably are no > thought processes of which humans are capable and computers are not. > > but just as we now see Darwinism in a different light--we don't feel > diminished by it, but are opening our eyes to the wonders it helps > reveal--about ourselves, our history, and all living things on the > planet, > and our shared history--so too, i imagine, over time, will we start to > open our eyes to the mysteries and solutions that are raised in the > idea > that we are basically machines--amazing machines, but machines > nonetheless. > > poetry is partly about who and what we are. poetry that can deal > suitably > with the notion that we are machines is needed, just as art and other > expressions that reveal the visions of darwinism was and still is > needed. so > that we might be both rational and fully human, see the beauty in > what truly > is. > > ja > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/ > welcome.html Jason Quackenbush jfq@myuw.net ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 22:22:32 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Simone Weil Comments: To: poet_in_hell@yahoo.com In-Reply-To: <495142.40010.qm@web52411.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed The argument about communism used to be that you couldn't blame it for the 100s of millions of deaths at the hands of Stalin or Mao, that wasn't really communism, which hasn't been tried yet. Some of the dopey junk of christianity includes inquisitions, religious wars, genocide. Maybe that wasn't really christianity. Of course, christianity begins with the claim that there's a sky god who to test our fidelity asks us to believe that he got a virgin pregnant and she had a kid who was also god. On this was erected a great many beautiful, seductive things, and some extraordinarily complex thought in the enterprise of trying to rationalize that origin story. Is that what you mean dopey? Me, I'm Jewish. Doesn't do much for me. I know some of Weil's family, by the way. She seems to have embraced christianity and anorexia at the same time. They were secular Jews and didn't get it. Mark At 09:50 PM 1/16/2009, steve russell wrote: >I mentioned Simone Weil earlier, but forgot to add -- > > > >i think it was during the >late 80's when books such as "The Dancing Woo Lee Masters" and "The Tao >of Physics" came out. Suddenly, Eastern thought became very >fashionable. I'm attracted to writers of extreme, obsessive vision. >Simone certainly qualifies. Ditto Pascal. Still, it's hard not to be >embarressed admitting an attraction to a writer who happens to be >Christian as the tradition has been contaminated by so much dopey junk. >Sad. But I refuse to throw away Augustine or Flannery O' Conner because >of a few idiots. > > > > > > > >================================== >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 10:14:59 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Fwd: Judith Hoffberg {RIP} Comments: To: spidertangle@yahoogroups.com, Theory and Writing Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Judith was a tireless networker of new art, visual poetry, mail art, performance & everything between. Raise your umbrella for Judith Hoffberg. Begin forwarded message: > From: { brad brace } > Date: January 18, 2009 8:59:09 AM CST > Subject: [fluxlist] Judith Hoffberg {RIP} > Reply-To: fluxlist@yahoogroups.com > > > Judith Hoffberg passed away peacefully on January 16, > 2009 > > Born May 19, 1934, Judith Hoffberg was a librarian, > archivist, lecturer, a curator and art writer, and editor > and publisher of Umbrella, a newsletter on artist's books, > mail art, and Fluxus art. She received an M.A. in Italian > Language and Literature in 1960 and an M.L.S. from the UCLA > School of Library Service in June 1964. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judith_Hoffberg > > /:b > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 11:36:13 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: help me: blogging "The Best American Poetry" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Any help with the below would be appreciated. I was asked to be a guest blogger for the duration of this week at the BAP blog ("Best American Poetry"). Since the Scribner BAP series began in 1988, the formulation "best american poetry" has not-so-intentionally underscored the politics of aesthetic assessment, anthology making, nationalism in letters, and the cult of the virtuoso. Clearly BAP as a formulation can (and often has) been easily read as code that tacitly asks for a collective misrecognition of oral, visual, and concrete poetics, diaspora poetics, oppositional poetics, much ethnopoetics, race and racialized poetics, dysraphic poetics, and the sociology of assessment and symbolic economies in general. I want to post a series of individual, signed, sentences/aphorisms/paragraphs by people from this list concerning the formulation "best american poetry" andor poetry/poetics in general. If you want to include text from others, please give a brief citation. No word limit. The sooner the better (will post as I acquire them) -- but all please by Wednesday. If you could email those to me (gabrielgudding@gmail.com) or post them here frontchannel, I'd appreciate it. I'll post them all to the blog. The only proviso for their blog: no personal attacks. If you need a cue beyond the above, I'd ask you to reply to this formulation: "Best American Poetry: ?" Thanks. Gabe ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 19:15:11 +0100 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: Camille Martin Salutes Obama on CKLN=?WINDOWS-1252?Q?=92s_=93In_Other_Words=94?= In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline And to your Show! On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 4:56 PM, Camille Martin wrote: > A Salute to Obama on His Inauguration: > Unlikely Sound Poets for an Unlikely President > > Ryerson University's CKLN, 88.1 FM > Tuesday, January 20, 2:00 =96 3:00 pm > Online listening: http://www.ckln.fm > > As John Stewart put it so eloquently, the US is celebrating the election = of > its first Hawaiian president =96 and his middle name is Hussein! Holy bro= ken > barriers! > > To celebrate Obama's inauguration on Tuesday, I will feature a set of > unlikely sound poets =96 OK it's a bit of a stretch since I had planned t= his > set before I realized that my show would coincide with the inauguration. = But > it seemed somehow fitting. So I lift my champagne glass to the breath of > fresh air who is Obama while I air some unlikely candidates for the sound > poetry rubric =96 a babbling baby, Yma Sumac (anyone remember her?), Okla= homa > glossolalia, diddlers, a bird imitation or two, and Marie Osmond performi= ng > Hugo Ball's Karawane (yep). > > To continue my symbolic salute to Obama, I'll do a set alternating betwee= n > between Canadian and American sound poets to signify renewed friendship > between the "z" and the "zed" tribes. > > Bottoms up! > > Camille Martin > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > --=20 Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3Dpoetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 13:51:45 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Doug Holder Subject: David Godine and Print On Demand Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" I was recently invited to a literary gathering at the St. Botolph Club in= Boston.=20 A lot of folks were there and I briefly chatted with David Godine Jr. of = the=20 famed small press David Godine, Inc... He told me that he now uses POD (=20= Print-On-Demand) technology to produce some of his books, and thinks the=20= quality has vastly improved and his authors love the product. I think an=20= endorsement from David Godine says a lot to the prejudices that now exist= =20 among some in the literary world towards this technology. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 10:54:55 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Comments: RFC822 error: Invalid RFC822 field - "The Burning Chair Readings". Rest of header flushed. From: Matt Henriksen Subject: The Burning Chair Readings 2 1/2 nights @ AWP Chicago MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable two nights of readings in = =0AThe Burning Chair Readings=0Apresent=0A =0Atwo nights of readings=0Ain = Chicago=0AFebruary 11 & 12,=0A2009=0A =0A****=0AWednesday, February 11, 6-9= pm=0ANarwhal& Projective Industries=0A@ Sonotheque=0A1444 W. Chicago Ave.= =0AChicago, IL=0Asonotheque.net=0A$5=0A =0Afeaturing poets=0A =0AKazim Ali= =0AMaureen Alsop=0ASommer Browning=0AThomas Hummel=0AThibault Raoult=0AJare= d White=0A =0A& music from=0A =0ADA SO DO DA=0AThe Goddamn Shame=0A =0A****= =0AThursday, February 12, 6-9 pm=0AAhsahta=0APress & Typo=0A@=0AThe Empty B= ottle=0A1035=0AN. Western Ave.=0AChicago,=0AIL=0Aemptybottle.com=0AFREE=0A = =0ACarrie Olivia Adams=0ABen Doller=0AKathleen Jesme=0AForrest Gander=0AMat= t Hart=0ABrenda Hillman=0AAlex Lemon=0ABarbara Maloutas=0ARusty Morrison=0A= G.E. Patterson=0AMarvyn Petrucci=0AStephanie Strickland=0A =0A****=0AAnd we= =92ll be involved w/ these cool kids=0AFriday night:=0A =0AFriday, February= 13th, 7-9:30 pm=0ANo Thousands: A Small Press Reading=0ABlack Ocean, Canni= bal=0ABooks, Forklift Ohio, Octopus Books, Rope-a-Dope=0A@ The Empty Bottle= =0A1035=0AN. Western Ave.=0AChicago,=0AIL=0Aemptybottle.com=0AFREE=0A =0AJo= hannes G=F6ransson=0AJoshua Harmon=0AClaire Donato=0AKevin Holden=0ARussell= Dillon=0AAlexis Orgera=0ADean Young=0AEric Baus=0AShane McCrae=0ASampson S= tarkweather=0AChris Tonelli=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 11:52:07 -1000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Gabrielle Welford Subject: Re: Bailout In-Reply-To: <496FB869.7040000@umn.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII good point. mina loy would have said so.... On Thu, 15 Jan 2009, Maria Damon wrote: > what a great response! > but if one is inside the house, does it make one one's own prisoner? > > Obododimma Oha wrote: > > Sometimes it is better to lock one's doors and throw away the keys, even > > when there's nothing of great value in the house. > > -- Obododimma. > > > > On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 8:09 PM, Maria Damon wrote: > > > >> but is it not also worthless? > >> > >> Obododimma Oha wrote: > >> > >>> No amount of money can purchase virginity. It is simply priceless. > >>> -- Obododimma. > >>> > >>> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 2:40 PM, mIEKAL aND > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> (this piggybacks nicely on the brothel dissection...) > >>>> > >>>> Grad Student Selling Virginity Flooded With Offers > >>>> http://cbs13.com/local/selling.virginity.tuition.2.815171.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 14:21:22 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Inaugural Poem (never delivered) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I don't know what Elizabeth Alexander will come up with for Tuesday, but this may be a good time for another look at this poem by Lorenzo Thomas.  As always, Lorenzo was prescient.  Here he foresees both "irrational exuberance" and that god-awful song, nearly resuced by Joan Osborne, "What if God was one of us?" Inauguration The land was there before usWas the land. Then thingsBegan happening fast. BecauseThe bombs us have always workSometimes it makes me thinkGod must be one of us. BecauseUs has saved the wold. Us gave itA particular set of regulationsbased on 1) undisputable acumen2) carnivorous fortunes, delicatelyReferred to here as "bull market"And (of course) other irrational factorsDeadly smoke thick over the icecaps,Our man in Saigon Lima Tokyo etc etc <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> "Study the fine art of coming apart." --Jerry W. Ward, Jr. Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 17:12:46 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Prostituiton and RE: Presidential Inauguration Poetry & "Where the He/art Pants" Election Anthology In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70901161436q47527961l1bfb1ad04d1bfda3@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Many thanks to both you and Ruth for your kind comments=2C Anny. (i feel like we're in a tilt-a-whirl=2C with the "thanks yous"-going round = & round--!) I heard on the news in the background while i was counting my blessings on = the bones of freezing fingers in the Dickensian room whilst spray painting = garish flickering funeral pyres=2C visible despite the Wall and Walls of Si= lence=2C I heard reports that Prostitutes are being banned from the parade = routes of the Inaugeration. I posted two "faits diver-fate's divers" at my blogs for today re this=2C b= ut my immediate thought was-- How sad that the prostitutes wil be deproved of seeing many of their best c= ustomers and intimate clients go passing by on the this historical day-- And how unfair!! That prostitutes=2C but not politicians=2C are banned foro= m the work place on such an august occaision! http://davidbaptistechirot.blogspot.com http://cronacasouversivafeneon.blogspot.com > Date: Fri=2C 16 Jan 2009 23:36:25 +0100 > From: anny.ballardini@GMAIL.COM > Subject: Re: About Poetry: Presidential Inauguration Poetry & "Where the = He/art Pants" Election Anthology > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >=20 > Thank you to both: Ruth Lepson and David-Baptiste Chirot. > Have a nice evening=2C Anny >=20 > On Fri=2C Jan 16=2C 2009 at 3:12 AM=2C Ruth Lepson wrote: >=20 > > led to a fascinating chain > > > > > > On 1/15/09 9:18 AM=2C "David-Baptiste Chirot" > > wrote: > > > > > Along with About Poetry's selections and thoughts=2C also a reminder = re > > Election > > > Anthology "Where the He/art Pants" edited by Anny Ballardini and > > > Obododimma-which is also about the inaugeration-- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://poetry.about.com/b/2009/01/15/poetry-and-the-presidential-inaugu= ration > > . > > > htm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From Bob Holman & Margery Snyder > > > > > > Poetry > > > came into the public eye numerous times during the 2008 U.S. > > > Presidential election campaign=2C and the poetry world has been buzzi= ng > > > with excitement and bustling with suggestions since the election=2C > > > especially as it became evident that poetry would have a role to play > > > in next Tuesday's inauguration ceremony and celebration > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Poetry and the Presidential Inauguration W= hile > > > we're all waiting for Elizabeth Alexander's inaugural poem=2C let's > > > reread the few poems that have marked earlier Presidential > > > inaugurations... and a sampling of "unofficial" poems written for > > > Barack Obama's inauguration by poets around the country.... read more > > > *=B7* While the He/art > > > Pants: > >(Poetic > > > Responses to the 2008 American Elections) > > > *=B7* Editorial: Obododimma > > > Oha > > > *=B7* Editorial: Anny > > > Ballardini > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Windows Live Hotmail(R): Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail. > > > > > http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_hm_justgotbett= er_howitw > > > orks_012009 > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > > guidelines & > > > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidel= ines > > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > >=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3Dpoetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live=99 Hotmail=AE: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail.=20 http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_hm_justgotbetter_h= owitworks_012009= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 00:41:05 +0100 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Hot Whiskey Press Subject: Hecate Lochia by Hoa Nguyen (Hot Whiskey Press) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline R3JlZXRpbmdzLAoKV2UgYXJlIHBsZWFzZWQgdG8gYW5ub3VuY2UgdGhlIHB1YmxpY2F0aW9uIG9m IEhvYSBOZ3V5ZW4ncyBsYXRlc3QKYm9vaywgSGVjYXRlIExvY2hpYS4gVGhlIGJvb2sgaXMgbm93 IGF2YWlsYWJsZSBmb3IgcHJlLXNhbGUgb24gdGhlIEhvdApXaGlza2V5IHdlYnNpdGUgYXQgaHR0 cDovL3d3dy5ob3R3aGlza2V5cHJlc3MuY29tL2hlY2F0ZS5odG1sCgpZb3UgY2FuIGZpbmQgbW9y ZSBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiBhYm91dCB0aGUgYm9vayBvbiB0aGUgd2Vic2l0ZS4KCkJvcm4gbmVhciBT YWlnb24gaW4gMTk2NywgSG9hIE5ndXllbiBncmV3IHVwIGluIHRoZSBEQyBhcmVhIGFuZApzdHVk aWVkIHBvZXRyeSBhdCBOZXcgQ29sbGVnZSBpbiBTYW4gRnJhbmNpc2NvLCBDYWxpZm9ybmlhLiBT aGUKY3VycmVudGx5IGxpdmVzIGluIEF1c3RpbiwgVGV4YXMgd2l0aCB0aGUgcG9ldCBEYWxlIFNt aXRoOyB0b2dldGhlcgp0aGV5IHB1Ymxpc2ggU2thbmt5IFBvc3N1bSwgYSBib29rIGltcHJpbnQg YW5kIGpvdXJuYWwsIGFuZCBjdXJhdGUgYQptb250aGx5IHJlYWRpbmcgc2VyaWVzLiBTaGUgaXMg dGhlIGF1dGhvciBvZiBEYXJrIChNaWtlIGFuZCBEYWxlJ3MsCjE5OTgpLCBQYXJyb3QgRHJ1bSAo TGVyb3ksIDIwMDApLCBZb3VyIEFuY2llbnQgU2VlIFRocm91Z2ggKFN1YiBQcmVzcywKMjAwMiks IFJlZCBKdWljZSAoRWZmaW5nLCAyMDA1KSwgYW5kIEtpc3MgQSBCb21iIFRhdHRvbyAoRWZmaW5n LAoyMDA4KS4KCktpbmRlc3QgUmVnYXJkcywKCk1pY2hhZWwgJiBKZW5uaWZlcgoKLS0gCkhvdCBX aGlza2V5IFByZXNzCtogcGF06SBiYXRlcmllIDc5Mi81ClByYWhhIDE2MiAwMCBTdPhluW92aWNl Cnd3dy5ob3R3aGlza2V5cHJlc3MuY29tCg== ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 18:24:00 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Carol Novack Subject: SAVE THE DATE: MAD HATTERS' REV WITH HARP & ALTAR at THE KGB BAR, FRIDAY, FEB. 13TH MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Harp & Altar Mad Hatters' Review & mad hatters' review& harp & altar Present Friday, *February 13th*, 2009 7-9PM *KGB Bar*, 85 East 4th Street, N.Y.C. *Joshua Cohen* is the author of four books, including the novels *Cadenza for the Schneidermann Violin Concerto *(Fugue State Press, 2007) and *A Heaven of Others *(Starcherone, 2007). Another novel, *Graven Imaginings*, is forthcoming from Dalkey Archive Press. Essays have appeared in The Forward, Nextbook, The Believer, and Harper's. North Vain, Bluff, from which the piece that appears in the current issue of Harp & Altar is excerpted, is the second book of a series entitled *Two Great Russian Novels*. He lives in Brooklyn. *Tim Horvath*, whose fiction appears in the current issue of MHR, won the 2006 Raymond Carver Short Story Award and the '06 prize of the Society for the Study of the Short Story. His stories are out or forthcoming in Alimentum: The Literature of Food, Fiction, Web Conjunctions, SleepingFish, Sein und Werden, and elsewhere. He teaches a class for Grub Street Writers in Boston centered on the application of findings from brain science to writing and literature. His novella *Circulation*, called "a glittering narrative performance" by David Huddle, will be released as a short book by Sunnyoutside Press in March 2009. He is currently working on a novel in which one or more (it is unclear which) microscopic counter-novels fester in the interstices of the typeface and must be eradicated lest the infra-structure come crashing down. *Joanna Howard *is the author of Frights of Fancy, a collection of short prose forthcoming from Boa Editions. Her work has appeared in Conjunctions, Chicago Review, Unsaid, Quarterly West, American Letters and Commentary, Fourteen Hills, Western Humanities Review, Salt Hill, Tarpaulin Sky and elsewhere. A chapbook In the Colorless Round, with artwork by novelist and artist Rikki Ducornet, is available from Noemi Press. Her "Seascape" appeared in Harp & Altar #2. *Mary Mackey*, with poems forthcoming in MHR Issue 11, is a poet and novelist who lives in Berkeley, California. She is the author of five collections of poetry, including *Breaking The Fever *(Marsh Hawk Press); one experimental novella, *Immersion*; and fourteen novels, including *A Grand Passion *(Simon & Schuster), *The Year the Horses Came *(HarperCollins), *The Notorious Mrs. Winston* (Putnam/Berkley Books), and *The Widow's War *(Putnam/Berkley Books--in press for Fall 2009). Mackey's works have been translated into eleven foreign languages including Japanese, Hebrew, Greek, and Finnish. She has lectured at Harvard and the Smithsonian, is past president of the West Coast branch of PEN, a Fellow of the Virginia Center for the Creative Arts, and Professor Emeritus of English at California State University. A member of the Writers Guild of America, West, she wrote the screenplay for the award-winning feature film Silence. More information about her can be found at www.marymackey.com. and at www.marshhawkpress.org. FREE ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 12:58:03 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: cris cheek Subject: This is your ticket to the Inauguration MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit post _ moot is now LIVE at: www.postmoot.net it will stay live until midnight 21st January Hawaiia-Aleutian time. Respond to the Inauguration of Barack Obama. The project is non-partisan. ALL p.o.v. are encouraged to send (pics, sounds, texts, tweets . . .) to: postmoot@gmail.com Everything will be automatically uploaded to the live site. You can also "direct" Tweet postmoot via Twitter. We're looking forwards to YOUR participation The post _ moot collective (cris cheek, William r. howe and cathy wagner) ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 16:49:22 -0500 Reply-To: dbuuck@mindspring.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David Buuck Subject: This Friday 1/23: SPT's POETS THEATER FEST night 2! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please join us for night two of Small Press Traffic's annual Poets Theater = Fest & fundraiser - this Friday Jan 23rd, at 730pm. featuring: Flow =E2=80=94 Winged Crocodile by Leslie Scalapino Only the Money is Real by Raymond Pettibon directed by Kevin Killian A Mummer's Play by Vanessa Place directed by Yedda Morrison The News from Zimbabwe: a re-enactment conducted by David Buuck and come again the following Friday 1/30 for video & intermedia works by Li= nh Dinh, Ariana Reines, Heriberto Y=C3=A9pez, Konrad Steiner, Henry Hills, = Paolo Javier & Dennis Somera, Dillon Westbrook, Karla Milosevich, Cassie R= iger & Amanda Davidson, Bill Luoma, Claudia Rankine, & more! Small Press Traffic's Poets Theater 09, night 2 Friday Jan 23, 7pm.=20 $10 donation - refreshments will be served Timken Hall at CCA=20 1111 8th St=20 San Francisco sptraffic.org smallpresstraffic.blogspot.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 21:39:15 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Prostituiton and RE: Presidential Inauguration Poetry & "Where the He/art Pants" Election Anthology In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable exactly--thank you again... On 1/18/09 6:12 PM, "David-Baptiste Chirot" wrote: > Many thanks to both you and Ruth for your kind comments, Anny. > (i feel like we're in a tilt-a-whirl, with the "thanks yous"-going round = & > round--!) >=20 > I heard on the news in the background while i was counting my blessings o= n the > bones of freezing fingers in the Dickensian room whilst spray painting ga= rish > flickering funeral pyres, visible despite the Wall and Walls of Silence, = I > heard reports that Prostitutes are being banned from the parade routes of= the > Inaugeration. >=20 > I posted two "faits diver-fate's divers" at my blogs for today re this, b= ut my > immediate thought was-- >=20 > How sad that the prostitutes wil be deproved of seeing many of their best > customers and intimate clients go passing by on the this historical day-- >=20 > And how unfair!! That prostitutes, but not politicians, are banned forom = the > work place on such an august occaision! >=20 > http://davidbaptistechirot.blogspot.com > http://cronacasouversivafeneon.blogspot.com >=20 >=20 >> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 23:36:25 +0100 >> From: anny.ballardini@GMAIL.COM >> Subject: Re: About Poetry: Presidential Inauguration Poetry & "Where the >> He/art Pants" Election Anthology >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>=20 >> Thank you to both: Ruth Lepson and David-Baptiste Chirot. >> Have a nice evening, Anny >>=20 >> On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 3:12 AM, Ruth Lepson wr= ote: >>=20 >>> led to a fascinating chain >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On 1/15/09 9:18 AM, "David-Baptiste Chirot" >>> wrote: >>>=20 >>>> Along with About Poetry's selections and thoughts, also a reminder re >>> Election >>>> Anthology "Where the He/art Pants" edited by Anny Ballardini and >>>> Obododimma-which is also about the inaugeration-- >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>=20 http://poetry.about.com/b/2009/01/15/poetry-and-the-presidential-inaugurati= o>>> n >>> . >>>> htm >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> From Bob Holman & Margery Snyder >>>>=20 >>>> Poetry >>>> came into the public eye numerous times during the 2008 U.S. >>>> Presidential election campaign, and the poetry world has been buzzing >>>> with excitement and bustling with suggestions since the election, >>>> especially as it became evident that poetry would have a role to play >>>> in next Tuesday's inauguration ceremony and celebration >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Poetry and the Presidential Inauguration Wh= ile >>>> we're all waiting for Elizabeth Alexander's inaugural poem, let's >>>> reread the few poems that have marked earlier Presidential >>>> inaugurations... and a sampling of "unofficial" poems written for >>>> Barack Obama's inauguration by poets around the country.... read more >>>> *=B7* While the He/art >>>> Pants:>>> (Poetic >>>> Responses to the 2008 American Elections) >>>> *=B7* Editorial: Obododimma >>>> Oha >>>> *=B7* Editorial: Anny >>>> Ballardini >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>> Windows Live Hotmail(R): Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail. >>>>=20 >>> http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_hm_justgotbetter= _howi >>> tw >>>> orks_012009 >>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>> guidelines & >>>> sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>>=20 >>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidel= ines >>> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> --=20 >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3Dpoetshome >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing >> star! >>=20 >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guideli= nes & >> sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >=20 > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live=81 Hotmail=AE: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail. > http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_hm_justgotbetter_h= owitw > orks_012009 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 19:00:36 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Troy Camplin Subject: Re: Prostituiton and RE: Presidential Inauguration Poetry & "Where the He/art Pants" Election Anthology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If prostitutes are banned, how on earth can any of the politicians attend? = All the politicians there for the inauguration would be banned form it.=0A= =0ATroy Camplin=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: David-B= aptiste Chirot =0ATo: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.ED= U=0ASent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 5:12:46 PM=0ASubject: Prostituiton and R= E: Presidential Inauguration Poetry & "Where the He/art Pants" Election An= thology=0A=0AMany thanks to both you and Ruth for your kind comments, Anny.= =0A(i feel like we're in a tilt-a-whirl, with the "thanks yous"-going round= & round--!)=0A=0AI heard on the news in the background while i was countin= g my blessings on the bones of freezing fingers in the Dickensian room whil= st spray painting garish flickering funeral pyres, visible despite the Wall= and Walls of Silence, I heard reports that Prostitutes are being banned fr= om the parade routes of the Inaugeration.=0A=0AI posted two "faits diver-fa= te's divers" at my blogs for today re this, but my immediate thought was--= =0A=0AHow sad that the prostitutes wil be deproved of seeing many of their = best customers and intimate clients go passing by on the this historical da= y--=0A=0AAnd how unfair!! That prostitutes, but not politicians, are banned= forom the work place on such an august occaision!=0A=0Ahttp://davidbaptist= echirot.blogspot.com=0Ahttp://cronacasouversivafeneon.blogspot.com=0A=0A=0A= > Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 23:36:25 +0100=0A> From: anny.ballardini@GMAIL.COM= =0A> Subject: Re: About Poetry: Presidential Inauguration Poetry & "Where t= he He/art Pants" Election Anthology=0A> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=0A= > =0A> Thank you to both: Ruth Lepson and David-Baptiste Chirot.=0A> Have a= nice evening, Anny=0A> =0A> On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 3:12 AM, Ruth Lepson <= ruthlepson@comcast.net> wrote:=0A> =0A> > led to a fascinating chain=0A> >= =0A> >=0A> > On 1/15/09 9:18 AM, "David-Baptiste Chirot" =0A> > wrote:=0A> >=0A> > > Along with About Poetry's selections an= d thoughts, also a reminder re=0A> > Election=0A> > > Anthology "Where the = He/art Pants" edited by Anny Ballardini and=0A> > > Obododimma-which is als= o about the inaugeration--=0A> > >=0A> > >=0A> > >=0A> > >=0A> > >=0A> > ht= tp://poetry.about.com/b/2009/01/15/poetry-and-the-presidential-inauguration= =0A> > .=0A> > > htm=0A> > >=0A> > >=0A> > >=0A> > >=0A> > > = From Bob Holman & Margery Snyder=0A> > >=0A> > > Poetry=0A> > > came into t= he public eye numerous times during the 2008 U.S.=0A> > > Presidential elec= tion campaign, and the poetry world has been buzzing=0A> > > with excitemen= t and bustling with suggestions since the election,=0A> > > especially as i= t became evident that poetry would have a role to play=0A> > > in next Tues= day's inauguration ceremony and celebration=0A> > >=0A> > >=0A> > >=0A> > >= =0A> > >=0A> > >=0A> > >=0A> > >=0A> > >=0A> > >=0A> > >=0A> > >=0A> > >=0A= > > >=0A> > >=0A> > > Poetry and the Presidential= Inauguration While=0A> > > we're all waiting for Elizabeth Alexander's in= augural poem, let's=0A> > > reread the few poems that have marked earlier P= residential=0A> > > inaugurations... and a sampling of "unofficial" poems w= ritten for=0A> > > Barack Obama's inauguration by poets around the country.= .... read more=0A> > > *=B7* While the He/art=0A> > > Pants: > >(Poetic=0A> > > Resp= onses to the 2008 American Elections)=0A> > > *=B7* Editorial: Obododimma= =0A> > > Oha=0A> > > *=B7* Editorial: Anny=0A> > > Ballardini=0A> > >=0A> > >=0A> > >=0A> > >=0A>= > > _________________________________________________________________=0A> = > > Windows Live Hotmail(R): Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail.=0A> > = >=0A> > http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_hm_justgot= better_howitw=0A> > > orks_012009=0A> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A> >= > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check=0A> > g= uidelines &=0A> > > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.= html=0A> >=0A> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A> > The Poetics List is mod= erated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines=0A> > & sub/unsub info= : http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A> >=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> -- = =0A> Anny Ballardini=0A> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/=0A> http://www= ..fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3Dpoetshome=0A> http://www.moriapoetry.com= /ebooks.html=0A> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth= to a dancing=0A> star!=0A> =0A> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A> The Poetic= s List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/uns= ub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A=0A_________________= ________________________________________________=0AWindows Live=99 Hotmail= =AE: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail. =0Ahttp://windowslive.com/howit= works?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_hm_justgotbetter_howitworks_012009=0A=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0AThe Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all po= sts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welc= ome.html=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 07:49:52 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Roy Exley Subject: Re: Simone Weil Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi Mark, Shame about your twisted cynical remarks on christianity, as you must imagine, there are people of all persuasions out here and if we all started slagging off each others particular ideologies it would make for a rather sad website so let's get a bit more positive, creative and constructive, rather than destructive, surely thinking around poetry should include a good measure of creativity and excursons into the imagination - there doesn't seem to be much of either going on at the moment! Roy Exley. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 05:32:29 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: e to a friend about a philosophy of computer art In-Reply-To: <24770605-E083-4E34-92D1-9713C20F4826@myuw.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > it does seem threatening to humanity to think that the human mind is > strictly mechanical loosely, i'm not sure what you mean by "strictly mechanical loosely", jason. i expect we might agree that whatever the mind is, it's to be distinguished from the brain. and i expect that we might also agree that the brain itself operates bio-mechanically. in other words, the brain is a machine, though it be organic, biological. but just because the brain is a machine, though organic and biological, does not mean that the mind is limited to the same level of complexity as the mechanisms of the brain. similarly, very similarly, software can be more complex in its architectural complexity than the machine it operates on, though the machine supports the operation of the software. similarly, what we write can be of a higher order of complexity than the alphabet or the rules of grammar. whatever else the mind may be, surely it is 'emergent' in the following sense, which i am using analogically, not literally. emergent behavior in software is behavior that the programmer has not explicitly programmed, but the emergent behavior emerges from what has been explicitly programmed. for instance, if software is written that allows it to re-write itself to meet various challenges, then we can see how the possibility exists of it eventually 'growing' and 'evolving' into a thing with behaviors that the programmer could never have anticipated. in a sense, living things are the ultimate in the process of software evolution. there's evolution that happens on the physical level, and then there's evolution that happens on the level of mind or cognitive complexity in architectural, informational structure and process. and of course they're related--the mental is supported by the physical--but the complexity of the data structures and the architecture of the data processing is not simply physical in the same way that you usually can't understand a poem simply by looking at it. it has to be read and a whole imaginary world constructed via the reading that is in some sort of correspondence with physical worlds themselves but is in no way identical with those physical worlds. > but i would caution anyone who thinks that the limitations on > computability apply human minds to read hubert dreyfus's "what computers > still can't do" very carefully as it is quite good on precisely the ways > in which some human activities are differentiated from things that > computers are capable of. if there was a widely recognized argument that there are thought processes of which humans are capable but computers are not, it would be front-page news. not today--for this is the very beautiful day, so long coming and admired around the globe--of the inauguration of Barack Obama--but the day after. can you tell me what writings of hubert dreyfus you're thinking of? i don't know his writing. ja ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 10:49:38 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Michael Kelleher Subject: Literary Buffalo Newsletter 01.19.09-01.25.09 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=UTF-8 LITERARY BUFFALO 01.19.09-01.25.09 SPECIAL BABEL ANNOUNCEMENT: WE ARE MOVING THE ISABEL ALLENDE READING ON APRIL 17 TO KLEINHANS MUSIC HAL= L=21 INDIVIDUAL TICKETS ARE ON SALE NOW=21 =24100 PATRON LEVEL (Includes reserved seating area tickets plus admission = to pre-event reception with Isabel Allende at Henry?s restaurant in Kleinha= ns) =2430 GENERAL ADMISSION (Includes general admission seating to event) Visit www.justbuffalo.org or call 832.5400 to order yours now. SPECIAL RATES (PHONE ORDERS ONLY) =2425 GROUP RATE (per ticket for orders of three or more; must be order at = the same time) =2420 CURRENT SUBSCRIBER RATE (current subscribers can purchase as many tic= kets as they like for this special rate) =2410 CLASSROOM RATE (teachers can purchase groups of ten or more tickets f= or students for this low student rate) CALL 832.5400 TO ORDER IN-PERSON ONLY RATE (can be purchased at Just Buffalo or at the event only) =2410 STUDENT INDIVIDUAL RATE (for students with current, valid student I.D= =2E) EVENTS THIS WEEK Visit the Literary Buffalo calendar at www.justbuffalo.org for more detaile= d info on these events. All events free and open to the pubic unless other= wise noted. 01.23.09 Poetics Plus Tyrone Williams Poetry Reading Friday, January 23, 8 PM Rust Belt Books, 202 Allen St. FIRST ANNUAL JUST BUFFALO MEMBER POETRY READING AND CONTEST Just Buffalo Literary Center is pleased to announce a new annual poetry rea= ding and contest for members to be judged by R.D. Pohl, editor of the poetr= y page at the Buffalo News. =CB=87Winners will be announced at a special me= mbers reading at CEPA Gallery during their members exhibition on Saturday, = March 14, 2009. =CB=87 All contest entrants will be given a chance to read their poems in person a= t this event. =CB=87Audience members will also be given the opportunity to = choose an Audience Award for one of the poems. Audience Award and Jury Priz= e winners will each receive a =2450 cash prize, a gift from Talking Leaves.= =2E.Books, a certificate of recognition from Just Buffalo, & publication in= Artvoice. Contest is open to writers of poetry who are members in good standing at th= e time of submission. =CB=87Contestants may join Just Buffalo at the time o= f submission by visiting the Just Buffalo website (www.justbuffalo.org) or = by sending a check along with their entry. Guidelines: 1. Submit one poem in any form on any subject of no more than 5 pages in le= ngth and a separate cover page that includes name, address, telephone and e= mail. =CB=87DO NOT PUT YOUR NAME ON THE POEMS THEMSELVES. =CB=87JUDGING IS = BLIND. One poem per entrant, please. 2. =CB=87 Submit by email to: submissions=40justbuffalo.org or by mail to M= EMBERS POETRY CONTEST, c/o Just Buffalo Literary Center, 617 Main St., Suit= 202A, Buffalo, NY 14203. 3. Submissions will not be returned. Submissions by non-members or lapsed m= embers will be rejected unless annual membership (=2435) is paid in full be= fore contest deadline. 4. DEADLINE: February 14. 5. Winners will be announced at the end of the Member reading on March 14, = 2009. ___________________________________________________________________________ JUST BUFFALO MEMBER WRITER CRITIQUE GROUP http://www.justbuffalo.org/docs/Writer_Critique_Group.pdf ___________________________________________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE If you would like to unsubscribe from this list, just say so and you will i= mmediately be removed. _______________________________ Michael Kelleher Artistic Director Just Buffalo Literary Center Market Arcade 617 Main St., Ste. 202A Buffalo, NY 14203 716.832.5400 716.270.0184 (fax) www.justbuffalo.org mjk=40justbuffalo.org =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 14:29:28 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Alexander's poem/ Lowery's Benediction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Spiritual Life: Poetry and prayer: Parallels of invocationMuch the way that= , say, Lorenzo Thomas' work was, I must say Rev. Dr. Joseph E. Lowery's Ben= ediction was more poetry than Alexander delivered, proving in full that POE= TRY SPEAKS A UNIVERSAL LANGUAGE akin to prayer. The benediction, like authe= ntic poetry, was an activity. It activated.=20 I am less concerned here, at the start, about what one prays -the creed of = prayer-than that one begins an inner life of words, praying, or poetry, and= that one finds a certain attitude of inner life. This can be found by at t= he very start of Lowery's work, of his saying focal words, using even secul= ar prayers, including a poetics, even for those of us who have not found Go= d, grace, a religion, or a church.=20 If his benediction was not petry, it is like poetry, like swimming--one has= , sometime, to jump into the words or water and hope that something will be= there. That something will hold one up. One has to learn the strokes, mayb= e, on dry land beforehand.=20 His prayer itself opened the dimension of the other, of the higher or the d= ivine. Like an authentic poem, one prayer, is like one grain of sand on the= beach-it starts the dialogue.=20 Alexander's poem, without its focus words, was poetry that cannot help a pe= rson in the direction that leads to prayer: that of wholeness, or healing, = which is the secret realm of holiness.=20 Lowery's poem/prayer begins with the cultivation of an attitude, not just i= n stillness or some strange church, and this is where his poetry can help p= rayer: What is the magic word? You need not be a church person, an Muslim, = a Jew, or a Christian to say this poem, or even a believer, but it can invo= ke the same attitude of reverence or relaxation response -that prayer awake= s in a person.=20 Lowery evoked a poetry activating the memory, attitude, and perception, and= it may be a good beginning or refresher for persons interested in elicitin= g the peace, power, and the active inner life of prayer. After all, prayer = and poetry originally come from the same place, and much early poetry was s= acred. Poetry, like prayer, accompanied ceremonies both at the temple and a= t the court. They were observances of the priest and king. They had the fun= ction of ritualizing, raising, and celebrating a sense of higher life. They= were a training and discipline of inner attitude towards public and divine= and even supernatural events. They were the developers of the culture.=20 Alexander failed to recapture some of these beginnings of us and the world = through both poetry and prayer.=20 Poetry, from the Greek word poesis (to make), like prayer from the Sanskrit= word pras or prcchati (for asking), often calls on unseen powers and addre= sses nature, the lover, time, or the West Wind as Thou. This is the mood of= invocation. It is, philosophically and grammatically, the vocative relatio= n: the poet calls out "0 Thou" to the universe. It is the grammatical case,= the vocative, in inflected languages which calls out or invokes. This voca= tive relation-the grammar of calling out-is a personalizing, a connectednes= s with destiny, death, love and chance, shared by prayer and poetry alike. = The vocative relation, or mood of invocation, is the calling out of the sou= l to life itself, be it the West Wind, Joy, the fountains and meadows, or l= ove, or time, or even death.=20 Alexander's poem, though well-constructed, accomplished none of this. Lowery, in his inner life, impersonated the world, and all poetry is a kind= of prayer to the universe.=20 Lowery's prayer, can be memorized poems and repeated, revealing an inner la= ndscape that can offset the evil, trouble, and turmoil of everyday life, th= e kind dished up for us by the past eight years of the previous failure of = an administration.=20 Lowery's Benediction set the mood of invocation, waking up the inner depend= ence we have on beauty, truth, and goodness, and will go farther than Alexa= nder's poem to help us actually create it. It put us between a prayer and a= meditation. The attitude of the soul, the poem, enlivens the moment. This = is the kind of waking up of the inner life that the vocative relation, whet= her addressed to God or no, can bring.=20 The Benediction more than the poem invoked meaning, which is indeed, the in= terface between prayer and meditation. In meaning we make an effort not jus= t with the heart but also with the mind to awaken the sense of words so tha= t as we repeat the formula or poem, we are discovering thought afresh.=20 Lowery's poem/prayer works, too, because he realizes the outward world chan= ges. Days change. But the word Grace, constantly repeated, can measure all = vicissitudes. It is the same with poems that we have internalized, making l= ife ours in an inward song that no outer circumstances can change. This is = that inward landscape of the relaxation response that can be such a great r= elief against stress, effecting even musculoskeletal, fight-or-flight, and = psycho-immunological symptoms. Here Lowery addressed his love. The attitude= of the poem is a prayer.=20 Alexander's poem failed to activate the inward life. It had no sense of wha= t it means to build soul out of words, memory, repetition, and attitude. Ab= sent was a kind of undertone, as if the mind were whispering to itself, to = love, to destiny, to the universe. There was no inward speech, whether pray= er or poem, between language and thought.=20 The Benediction poem was part prayer, part meditation. We can pray it, but = we can also meditate it.=20 Right now, we need this kind of meditation to help us crawl our of our nigh= tmare. It is, on the whole, possible to meditate poetry and, as Re. Dr. Lowery did= , to poeticize a meditation into a prayer. Gerald Schwartz=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 15:20:13 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: laura hinton Subject: Re: This is your ticket to the Inauguration In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What did you all think of Alexander's poem? Does anyone else write "their" Inaugural Poem? Here's mine written right after the event, which I watched here in France. -- Laura Hinton Millions Witness a Profound Moment in Nation's History-- New York Times headline just after Obama's inauguaration I'm sitting on a real-marble floor in this small southern French town -- the food shops closed early or at half-mask as if a death but in honor of beer glasses full and CNN streaming live in bars open wide to neighborhood provencials all of whom voted for Sarkozy (before he married Carla Bruni) so they can watch with pride *their own* first U.S. president who is black sworn in, president of my country hated here not just "since Reagan" (New York Times writes today) but since I was a child and it was "Vietnam," and the people in the cafe don't understand why at 4 p.m. on the beach I should leave the sunshine, the ball game, the kissing dogs, my Coke Light half empty to hurry home so quickly drive back through winding roads up altitudes filtered by January veils of water-mist mixed with smoke from burning underbrush -- ash to ash, they always burn the old wood here, the dead wood these bright winter days -- while *baous* form little arks of illuminations golden light top to top and nothing else save the landscape's evening greyness but not to miss Rick Warren say his mea culpa before his God Aretha Franklin singing Say Can You See in her basso profundo hat Rev. Lowery rhyming "yellow can be mellow" and everyone watching Little Bush and Daddy Bush get on their helicopter wave bye bye and the whole world wondering -- if it ever can be right when a helicopter's half-hand is seen out a window four people, half white, half black, like souls standing there, on the nation's backstairs freezing, waving bye-bye back > > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 16:17:27 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=E9amas_Cain?= Subject: The Western Writers' Centre MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline _______________ PETITION TO REINSTATE ARTS COUNCIL FUNDING TO WESTERN WRITERS' CENTRE The Arts Council of the Republic of Ireland have removed all funding from the Western Writers' Centre, Ionad Scr=EDbhneoir=ED Chaitl=EDn Maude. http://www.twwc.ie/ The Centre has been in operation as the only Writers' Centre west of the Shannon for almost seven years and has provided workshops, readings, a website, and a newsletter, "The Word Tree." They were the first to organise a writers' residence to a Galway hospital. They also run an annual festival, "The Forge at Gort." Their commitment to the Irish language and Irish language writers has also been a foremost feature of their working policy. The Arts Council grant of =8010,000 enabled them to plan forward, to develop this Centre. http://www.twwc.ie/ Please take the time to add your name to the petition calling for REINSTATEMENT of Arts Council Funding! You will find the petition at http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/WESTERNWRITERS For additional information, contact the WESTERN WRITERS' CENTRE at westernwriters@eircom.net Best regards, S=E9amas Cain http://alazanto.org/seamascain http://seamascain.writernetwork.com http://www.mnartists.org/Seamas_Cain _______________ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 16:52:55 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: susan maurer Subject: happy inauguration day MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have been elated to see a new president and running about New York celebr= ating. Happy inauguration to all. New Yorkers should know that the cool ind= ependent bookstore McNallay Jackson now stocks my RAPTOR RHAPSODY. They hav= e a darling display on a desk on the basement location and I hopwe this att= racts some who will sneak read and maybe own the book. Here's hoping we hav= e a new day. Susan Maurer _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live=99: Keep your life in sync.=20 http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_0= 12009= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 17:50:45 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: Alexander's poem/ Lowery's Benediction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit both truly sucked - On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 14:29:28 -0500 Gerald Schwartz writes: > Spiritual Life: Poetry and prayer: Parallels of invocationMuch the > way that, say, Lorenzo Thomas' work was, I must say Rev. Dr. Joseph > E. Lowery's Benediction was more poetry than Alexander delivered, > proving in full that POETRY SPEAKS A UNIVERSAL LANGUAGE akin to > prayer. The benediction, like authentic poetry, was an activity. It > activated. > > I am less concerned here, at the start, about what one prays -the > creed of prayer-than that one begins an inner life of words, > praying, or poetry, and that one finds a certain attitude of inner > life. This can be found by at the very start of Lowery's work, of > his saying focal words, using even secular prayers, including a > poetics, even for those of us who have not found God, grace, a > religion, or a church. > > If his benediction was not petry, it is like poetry, like > swimming--one has, sometime, to jump into the words or water and > hope that something will be there. That something will hold one up. > One has to learn the strokes, maybe, on dry land beforehand. > > His prayer itself opened the dimension of the other, of the higher > or the divine. Like an authentic poem, one prayer, is like one grain > of sand on the beach-it starts the dialogue. > > Alexander's poem, without its focus words, was poetry that cannot > help a person in the direction that leads to prayer: that of > wholeness, or healing, which is the secret realm of holiness. > > Lowery's poem/prayer begins with the cultivation of an attitude, not > just in stillness or some strange church, and this is where his > poetry can help prayer: What is the magic word? You need not be a > church person, an Muslim, a Jew, or a Christian to say this poem, or > even a believer, but it can invoke the same attitude of reverence or > relaxation response -that prayer awakes in a person. > > Lowery evoked a poetry activating the memory, attitude, and > perception, and it may be a good beginning or refresher for persons > interested in eliciting the peace, power, and the active inner life > of prayer. After all, prayer and poetry originally come from the > same place, and much early poetry was sacred. Poetry, like prayer, > accompanied ceremonies both at the temple and at the court. They > were observances of the priest and king. They had the function of > ritualizing, raising, and celebrating a sense of higher life. They > were a training and discipline of inner attitude towards public and > divine and even supernatural events. They were the developers of the > culture. > > Alexander failed to recapture some of these beginnings of us and the > world through both poetry and prayer. > > Poetry, from the Greek word poesis (to make), like prayer from the > Sanskrit word pras or prcchati (for asking), often calls on unseen > powers and addresses nature, the lover, time, or the West Wind as > Thou. This is the mood of invocation. It is, philosophically and > grammatically, the vocative relation: the poet calls out "0 Thou" to > the universe. It is the grammatical case, the vocative, in inflected > languages which calls out or invokes. This vocative relation-the > grammar of calling out-is a personalizing, a connectedness with > destiny, death, love and chance, shared by prayer and poetry alike. > The vocative relation, or mood of invocation, is the calling out of > the soul to life itself, be it the West Wind, Joy, the fountains and > meadows, or love, or time, or even death. > > Alexander's poem, though well-constructed, accomplished none of > this. > > Lowery, in his inner life, impersonated the world, and all poetry is > a kind of prayer to the universe. > > Lowery's prayer, can be memorized poems and repeated, revealing an > inner landscape that can offset the evil, trouble, and turmoil of > everyday life, the kind dished up for us by the past eight years of > the previous failure of an administration. > > Lowery's Benediction set the mood of invocation, waking up the inner > dependence we have on beauty, truth, and goodness, and will go > farther than Alexander's poem to help us actually create it. It put > us between a prayer and a meditation. The attitude of the soul, the > poem, enlivens the moment. This is the kind of waking up of the > inner life that the vocative relation, whether addressed to God or > no, can bring. > > The Benediction more than the poem invoked meaning, which is indeed, > the interface between prayer and meditation. In meaning we make an > effort not just with the heart but also with the mind to awaken the > sense of words so that as we repeat the formula or poem, we are > discovering thought afresh. > > Lowery's poem/prayer works, too, because he realizes the outward > world changes. Days change. But the word Grace, constantly repeated, > can measure all vicissitudes. It is the same with poems that we have > internalized, making life ours in an inward song that no outer > circumstances can change. This is that inward landscape of the > relaxation response that can be such a great relief against stress, > effecting even musculoskeletal, fight-or-flight, and > psycho-immunological symptoms. Here Lowery addressed his love. The > attitude of the poem is a prayer. > > Alexander's poem failed to activate the inward life. It had no sense > of what it means to build soul out of words, memory, repetition, and > attitude. Absent was a kind of undertone, as if the mind were > whispering to itself, to love, to destiny, to the universe. There > was no inward speech, whether prayer or poem, between language and > thought. > > The Benediction poem was part prayer, part meditation. We can pray > it, but we can also meditate it. > > Right now, we need this kind of meditation to help us crawl our of > our nightmare. > > It is, on the whole, possible to meditate poetry and, as Re. Dr. > Lowery did, to poeticize a meditation into a prayer. > > Gerald Schwartz > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 17:55:48 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Simone Weil In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Thank you for making this personal. I doubt very much that I've endangered any of the various churches, twisted cynic that I am. Should I also be positive, creative and constructive about other political ideologies, or are you just talking about religions? If so, what's beyond the pale? Let's hear it for mesoamerican human sacrifice. Years ago I dated a woman who had escaped (her term) from the fundamentalist church in which she was raised. Her parents, who to all appearances loved her, told her repeatedly that they feared she would go to hell. My fate went without saying. One morning, in an excess of happiness, I was whistling Amazing Grace. "How can you whistle that terrible song?" she snarled. "Haven't you listened to the words? It says I'm a wretch." That's when I learned that you don't have to imagine a cross burning on the lawn to have been damaged by the faith. What do you mean by creativity? Mark At 02:49 AM 1/20/2009, you wrote: >Hi Mark, > >Shame about your twisted cynical remarks on christianity, as you must >imagine, there are people of all persuasions out here and if we all started >slagging off each others particular ideologies it would make for a rather >sad website so let's get a bit more positive, creative and constructive, >rather than destructive, surely thinking around poetry should include a good >measure of creativity and excursons into the imagination - there doesn't >seem to be much of either going on at the moment! > >Roy Exley. > >================================== >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 15:07:38 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: e to a friend about a philosophy of computer art In-Reply-To: <4908D441555E41EFB47423A0C88439FE@OwnerPC> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit with "strictly mechanical loosely," i am badly wording the idea that you went into greater depth on that the mind is mechanical as a consequence of the brain mechanims. I was quite tired, but i'm pretty sure that's waht i meant, although looking at it now, that's just a guess. On Jan 20, 2009, at 5:32 AM, Jim Andrews wrote: >> it does seem threatening to humanity to think that the human mind >> is strictly mechanical loosely, > > i'm not sure what you mean by "strictly mechanical loosely", jason. > > i expect we might agree that whatever the mind is, it's to be > distinguished from the brain. and i expect that we might also agree > that the brain itself operates bio-mechanically. in other words, > the brain is a machine, though it be organic, biological. > > but just because the brain is a machine, though organic and > biological, does not mean that the mind is limited to the same > level of complexity as the mechanisms of the brain. > > similarly, very similarly, software can be more complex in its > architectural complexity than the machine it operates on, though > the machine supports the operation of the software. I get the analogy that yr making Jim, I just think it's flawed in that I don't think it's at all settled that the thinking mechanism of the brain works through the manipulation of explicit symbols, which is what software does. I think the brain/mind hardware/software analogy is a very tempting one, and it may in fact turn out to be good, but I don't like it because it leads down a path that I don't want to go down. I have a friend who is a doctor and neuroscientist and while she was in grad school and we talked about these issues, I watched her become even more of a hardcore scientific materialist as she has learned more about brain function, to the point that she's become a hard determinist and it's my understanding that most neuroscientists are in the same camp at this point. i can't accept that and as a result have tried to think very hard about where this all breaks down for me, and the idea of the mind as emergent from mechanical processes analogous to binary logic gates is where that breaking point is. > similarly, what we write can be of a higher order of complexity > than the alphabet or the rules of grammar. > > whatever else the mind may be, surely it is 'emergent' in the > following sense, which i am using analogically, not literally. > emergent behavior in software is behavior that the programmer has > not explicitly programmed, but the emergent behavior emerges from > what has been explicitly programmed. for instance, if software is > written that allows it to re-write itself to meet various > challenges, then we can see how the possibility exists of it > eventually 'growing' and 'evolving' into a thing with behaviors > that the programmer could never have anticipated. > > in a sense, living things are the ultimate in the process of > software evolution. there's evolution that happens on the physical > level, and then there's evolution that happens on the level of mind > or cognitive complexity in architectural, informational structure > and process. and of course they're related--the mental is supported > by the physical--but the complexity of the data structures and the > architecture of the data processing is not simply physical in the > same way that you usually can't understand a poem simply by looking > at it. it has to be read and a whole imaginary world constructed > via the reading that is in some sort of correspondence with > physical worlds themselves but is in no way identical with those > physical worlds. > >> but i would caution anyone who thinks that the limitations on >> computability apply human minds to read hubert dreyfus's "what >> computers still can't do" very carefully as it is quite good on >> precisely the ways in which some human activities are >> differentiated from things that computers are capable of. > > if there was a widely recognized argument that there are thought > processes of which humans are capable but computers are not, it > would be front-page news. > > not today--for this is the very beautiful day, so long coming and > admired around the globe--of the inauguration of Barack Obama--but > the day after. > > can you tell me what writings of hubert dreyfus you're thinking of? > i don't know his writing. Dreyfus is one of the more vocal philosopher's who along with Searle and a few others have been highly critical of the computer science program generally called "strong AI" in the phil. of mind/comp sci/ cog sci literature. The book you should read is "What Computer's Still Can't Do." There's an abstract of the argument in it on the wikipedia entry for dreyfus, although I don't think it does it justice really. But that's most likely because Dreyfus is a Heidegger scholar AND an analytic philosopher, which means there's a lot of subtlety to his thinking that's easy to gloss over and misunderstand. As for process that I am capable of but that I don't think computers are capable of, here's a short list: reflecting on why i eat more greasy spoon chinese food than is probably healthy deciding that i don't like the way a pair of shoes looks on me and not wearing them anymore feeling moved by the poetry of ted berrigan knowing that I should do the dishes but choosing to play video games instead writing a line of poetry and deciding that it's garbage for some reason x and erasing it deciding to bluff in a game of poker because I think I've intuitively figured out a tell of one of the other players even though I don't know what that tell is catching my own reflection in a mirror and recognizing it as my self being reflected being concerned for the wellbeing of a friend feeling nervous about whether I'll be accepted by something I've applied for and so purposefully thinking about something unrelated as a distraction constructing arguments to support my intuition that computers aren't capable of the same sorts of thoughts as I am what all of this boils down to is to make the point that dreyfus makes much better than I'm capable of paraphrasing, part of human consciousness is the human encounter with the world as the being that recognizes its own being in the world. everything else arises from that, and that itself is not a thought so much as it is an experience. i don't know how you can make a computer experience it's own thisness through programming. i'm not even sure what that sort of program might look like, but it's not the kind of thing that i can see a way to implementing on any given turing machine of sufficient power, since it has more to do than just deal with discrete symbols signifying discrete facts. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 21:58:33 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jon Cotner Subject: Transcription Issue Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain "Interdisciplinary Transcriptions"=20 Edited by Jon Cotner and Andy Fitch http://www.cipa.ulg.ac.be/intervalles4/contentsinter4.php poets / critics / anthropologists / visual artists / nudists=20 1000+ pages=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 19:37:56 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ismaelia al Sadiq Subject: Re: Simone Weil In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20090120174407.06c92a40@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Going to hell in a handbasket is probably more instructive than getting to = heaven in an elevator. Positive=2C creative and constructive qualities are= all in league with the devil. Small "d". Or at least Milton thought so. = Probably also the Saracens in Jerusalem who were about to be optimized out= of existence by positive=2C creative and constructive papal authority. Sm= all "p". I wonder who we should ask about this to get the Last Word? How = about barack? Small "b". In some languages=2C this means war. Which at l= east is impersonal. Unlike either religion or politics. Don't the verbs "= to inaugurate" and "to defenestrate" come from the same IE root? =20 O=2C say that it ain't so=2C Joe.=20 =20 =20 =20 > Date: Tue=2C 20 Jan 2009 17:55:48 -0500> From: junction@EARTHLINK.NET> Su= bject: Re: Simone Weil> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> > Thank you for m= aking this personal.> > I doubt very much that I've endangered any of the v= arious churches=2C > twisted cynic that I am. Should I also be positive=2C = creative and > constructive about other political ideologies=2C or are you = just > talking about religions? If so=2C what's beyond the pale? Let's hear= it > for mesoamerican human sacrifice.> > Years ago I dated a woman who ha= d escaped (her term) from the > fundamentalist church in which she was rais= ed. Her parents=2C who to > all appearances loved her=2C told her repeatedl= y that they feared she > would go to hell. My fate went without saying. One= morning=2C in an > excess of happiness=2C I was whistling Amazing Grace. "= How can you > whistle that terrible song?" she snarled. "Haven't you listen= ed to > the words? It says I'm a wretch." That's when I learned that you > = don't have to imagine a cross burning on the lawn to have been > damaged by= the faith.> > What do you mean by creativity?> > Mark> > At 02:49 AM 1/20/= 2009=2C you wrote:> >Hi Mark=2C> >> >Shame about your twisted cynical remar= ks on christianity=2C as you must> >imagine=2C there are people of all pers= uasions out here and if we all started> >slagging off each others particula= r ideologies it would make for a rather> >sad website so let's get a bit mo= re positive=2C creative and constructive=2C> >rather than destructive=2C su= rely thinking around poetry should include a good> >measure of creativity a= nd excursons into the imagination - there doesn't> >seem to be much of eith= er going on at the moment!> >> >Roy Exley.> >> >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > >guid= elines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html> > =3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept a= ll posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics= /welcome.html _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live=99: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_012009= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 21:09:33 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Rodney Koeneke Subject: Reading in Portland this SATURDAY, 1/24: ALLISON COBB & C.S. PEREZ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Tangent Reading Series presents: SATURDAY, JAN. 24 at 7 PM ALLISON COBB and CRAIG SANTOS PEREZ Clinton Corner Cafe, 2633 SE 21st Avenue Portland, OR http://www.thetangentpress.org/readings.html ALLISON COBB is the author of Born2 (Chax, 2004), a poetic meditation on her hometown of Los Alamos, New Mexico. She is currently at work on Green Wood, a long piece about the 500 acre Victorian cemetery across the street from her home in Brooklyn, New York. She moved from Brooklyn to Portland, Oregon this January. CRAIG SANTOS PEREZ, a native Chamoru from the Pacific Island of Guahan (Guam), is a cofounder of Achiote Press and author of from unincorporated territory (Tinfish Press, 2008). His poetry, essays, reviews, and translations have appeared in New American Writing, Pleiades, The Denver Quarterly, The Colorado Review, and ZYZZYVA, among others. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 01:38:10 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David Kirschenbaum Subject: NYC Tues./ Boog City presents Ahsahta Press and Jesse Schoen Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v924) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit please forward ------------------ Boog City presents d.a. levy lives: celebrating the renegade press Ahsahta Press (Boise, Idaho) this Tues., Jan. 27, 6:00 p.m. sharp, free ACA Galleries 529 W. 20th St., 5th Flr. NYC Event will be hosted by Ahsahta Press director and editor Janet Holmes Featuring readings from Paige Ackerson-Kiely Susan Briante Kate Greenstreet Kath Jesme Kristi Maxwell Stephanie Strickland with music from Jesse Schoen There will be wine, cheese, and crackers, too. Curated and with an introduction by Boog City editor David Kirschenbaum ------ **Ahsahta Press http://ahsahtapress.boisestate.edu/ Ahsahta Press was founded in 1974 at Boise State University; in 2000, Janet Holmes was named director and editor. The press seeks out poetry with an innovative twist and the kind of attention to language that pushes beyond craft into art; it produces books whose design takes these high standards as well. The Sawtooth Poetry Prize, established in 2001, has gone to Aaron McCollough, Graham Foust, Noah Eli Gordon, Karla Kelsey, and Paige Ackerson-Kiely; Rusty Morrison, who received the sixth Sawtooth award, was recently also awarded the James Laughlin Prize from the Academy of American Poets; recent winner Barbara Maloutas is author of the Whole Marie, published this month. Rae Armantrout will judge the awards in 2009. The name "Ahsahta" comes from the Mandan word for a Rocky Mountain bighorn sheep, and was first recorded by the Lewis and Clark expedition in Idaho. *Performer Bios* **Paige Ackerson-Kiely http://rhubarbissusan.blogspot.com/2006/12/paige-ackerson-kiely-moment-as-roscoe.html D.A. Powell selected Paige Ackerson-Kiely's book, In No One's Land, for the 2006 Sawtooth Poetry Prize. Ackerson-Kiely was also the 2006 winner of Poets & Writers Writer's Exchange contest. Her work has appeared in journals such as Ninth Letter, Pleiades, and Bellingham Review, among others. She lives in Vermont with her family and works at a wine store. Also she is 33. And a fair swimmer. **Susan Briante http://ahsahtapress.boisestate.edu/books/briante/briante.htm Susan Briante is the author of Pioneers in the Study of Motion. Recent poems have appeared in Court Green, Mandorla, and Ploughshares. She is translating the work of Uruguayan writer Marosa di Giorigio, as well as writing about industrial ruins and all sorts of abandoned buildings. Briante teaches at the University of Texas at Dallas, where she lives with the poet Farid Matuk. **Kate Greenstreet http://kickingwind.com/083108.html Ahsahta Press published Kate Greenstreet's first book, case sensitive. Her second, The Last 4 Things, will be out from Ahsahta in September 2009. This is why I hurt you, her most recent chapbook, is available from Lame House Press. New work is forthcoming in journals including jubilat, Court Green, Hotel Amerika, Practice, Saltgrass, and MAKE. **Kathleen Jesme http://kathjesme.com Kathleen Jesme is the author of The Plum-Stone Game, published by Ahsahta Press this January. She has written two previous collections of poetry: Motherhouse, winner of the Lena-Miles Wever Todd Poetry Prize, and Fire Eater. She lives in Minnesota. **Kristi Maxwell http://ahsahtapress.boisestate.edu/books/maxwell/maxwell.htm Kristi Maxwell lives and writes in Cincinnati, where she is pursing a Ph.D. in English. She is the author of two books of poems, Realm Sixty- four (Ahsahta Press) and the forthcoming Hush Sessions (Saturnalia Books), and also the chapbook Elsewhere & Wise (Dancing Girl Press). Her most recent awards include the Isabel & Mary Neff Fellowship and the Greta Wrolstad Scholarship for Young Poets to attend the Summer Literary Seminars in Russia. In her spare time, she practices kung fu with another poet. **Jesse Schoen http://www.myspace.com/jesseschoen Dystopian sci-fi, inept technicians, and the universe's tendency toward chaos inspire Jesse Schoen's songs. He lives in Chelsea. **Stephanie Strickland http://www.stephaniestrickland.com/ Ahsahta Press published Stephanie Strickland's fifth book of poems, Zone : Zero (book + CD), last year. Her latest collaborative hypermedia work, slippingglimpse, was introduced in Paris and shown this year at the Zaoem poetry festival in Ghent. She teaches experimental poetry and e-lit at many colleges and universities, most recently the University of Utah, and is working on a book-length series of poems, "Huracan's Harp." ---- Directions: C/E to 23rd St., 1/9 to 18th St. Venue is bet. 10th and 11th avenues Next event: Tues. Feb. 24 Atelos Publishing Project (Berkeley, Calif.) http://www.atelos.org with readings from Ted Greenwald * Jennifer Scappettone * Lytle Shaw Edwin Torres * Rodrigo Toscano and music from Lisle Ellis and Larry Ochs -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://www.welcometoboogcity.com T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 23:18:39 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: e to a friend about a philosophy of computer art In-Reply-To: <0401961E-6780-402A-B4F0-02FF75D8E4C6@myuw.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I get the analogy that yr making Jim, I just think it's flawed in that I > don't think it's at all settled that the thinking mechanism of the brain > works through the manipulation of explicit symbols, which is what > software does. i think that's an interesting point, jason. let's explore it. if we look in a computer, we won't find any zeros and ones. merely transistors that are charged (1) or not charged (0). also, if we compare the source code (which won't run) written by a human in, say, C++ with the compiled machine language version of the source code (which will run), we would see there is no one-to-one correspondence between the symbols in the source code and the binary symbols in the machine language version. the source code gets converted to machine language in the process of 'compilation', creating a file that will run, and this process converts the humanly authored file into a strange binary beast that can be fed to a central processor, which is really quite limited in its operations. this is code level stuff. but, still, the symbols are explicit. computers have to be intelligable, nonetheless, to humans. there's weird code zipping around, but all in explicit symbols that have to be humanly intelligable. of course, the inner workings of the brain do not have to be humanly intelligable. or intelligable to any sentient being. but they do have to help the critter survive. there has to be some consistency and integrity to the way the brain deals with sense data. so it's hard to see how the brain might not code the egg foo yong in some sort of set of symbols that remain stable over time. of course, we know that the body does indeed deal with codes of some kinds. dna, for instance. the ribozome reads the dna sequence in a c t g code much like a computer reads an input string. the ribozome is like a computer that we would very much like to understand the program for. the a c t g code does appear to be a set of explicit symbols. now, this doesn't mean that the brain operates this way also, but we understand that for information to be stored and processed in a consistent manner, explicit symbols are very useful. do you have any ideas of how one might avoid explicit symbols? by the way, i make the best chow mein on the planet. ja http://vispo.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 02:03:06 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: Prostituiton and RE: Presidential Inauguration Poetry & "Where the He/art Pants" Election Anthology In-Reply-To: <775450.87189.qm@web46201.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Troy--you ask: "If prostitutes are banned=2C how on earth can any of the politicians attend? All the politicians there for the inauguration would be banned form it." >=20 > Troy Camplin that is exactly --nay=2C i should say--PREZACKLY--what i am saying-- after all=2C it took one billion dollars this time round to yield a Preside= nt-- let alone the billions it took to elect the senators & congresspersons-- hence the "Betsy Ross" below--and her ideas for transparency-- here=2C from the post to poetics-- I posted two "faits diver-fate's divers" at my blogs for today re this=2C b= ut my immediate thought was-- How sad that the prostitutes wil be deprived of seeing many of their best customers and intimate clients go passing by on the this historical day-- And how unfair!! That prostitutes=2C but not politicians=2C are banned from= the work place on such an august occaision! and here from the afore said "faits divers--fate's divers": To prevent any embarrassing moments occurring during the Inauguration=2C prostitutes will be banned=2C sadly unable to see some top clients pass by. That the politicians are not banned may also fuel Discrimination in the Workplace charges being filed. A fanatic for "transparency in government=2C" Betsy Ross=2C 25=2C of Salem=2C MA=2C has been detained=2C charges pending. Ms Ross=2C i= t was discovered during a tipped-off raid=2C had been about to mass market her line of personalized racing jackets. one for each US Senator=2C=20 and the President=2C Vice President and Cabinet. Each jacket bears the logo= s of the lobbies paying for that particular politician's influence . . .=20 perhaps when any politician speaks=2C there could be projected onto the wal= l they are speaking in front of all the lobbies they took money from and ho= w much-- turn on the TV-- a Senate vote is on=2C a regular good old fashioned rhubarb is going down= =2C and their Eminences are practically rutting with joy on their podiums= =2C mad with lucre-lust as they each rise to the occaision--a bill to compl= etely privatize all public heatlh care=2C including medicare and "get the g= overnment off the backs of our buddies-- the Big Time pill pushers"-- So loyal are several members of the august body that they have allowed--for= many perks and paltry fees in the tens of thousands--to be used as "Living= Advertisements" for the latest Pharmaceutical Products-- many of the Senators present are thus stone cold dope fiends=2C hooked on t= he latest high octane narcotics pushed by the Man--and not a few sprout def= ormities=2C extra limbs and eyes=2C warped "senses of humor" eerily akin to= amphetemine psychosis=2C while others experience continually sounds as o= f a groaning coffin lid being opened--and others still suffer from vertigi= nous hallucinations-- yet through it all how unwavering their loyalty! as they line up with foaming mouths and clacking hooves to sign the latest = bill=2C rubberstamp the newest motion and in al have themselves a grand old= time until the dinner bell rings=2C and they rush like swine to their trou= ghs=2C oinking and grunting with pure unadulterated glee as President Bill = Clinton from a soap box stand at the the entrance to the dining room=2C is = calling out gleefully--"sou--eee=2C sou--eee" watching in their concealed dining room with its cameras trained on the din= ers below--the little group of Billionaire Puppet Masters laugh and croon--= as one gun totin' Old School Entrah-pren-ewer--shouts out from behind his o= il drum sized beer can--"look at 'em --bless their little ole big hearts!-= -why it's like watchin through the peep holes at the best little old whoreh= ouse in Texas--!" suddenly they have a medical emergency on their hands-- laughing too hard at his fellow diner's witticisms- Good ole "Cash Flow" Tomlinson has someheow managed to pop loose his IV--wh= ich "trickees UP" into his vast flabby capillary system--a continous "cash = flow" to which he has become so addicted he nearly flatlines if the supply = is cut off for even a few seconds-- and--though dangling dangerously nigh the valley of death=2C the Good ole B= illionaire manages to croak out his favorite=2C signature=2C tune-- "the Green Green Cash of Home"-- the sentimental image of which before his fast fading eyes makes him feel t= hat he still has a lot of livin and cash flowin to do--and=2C so=2C he swin= gs like a saloon door back from the edges of the valley-- bringin with him a new found gospel of greater ever greater cash flow=2C ar= t Thou=2C O Lord of the Exchequer---- a vision which must be preached throughout the Globe--and all of it funded = and paid for by the good ole gov't of the us of a-- =20 _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live=99: Keep your life in sync.=20 http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_012009= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 03:04:06 -0800 Reply-To: poet_in_hell@yahoo.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve russell Subject: Re: Simone Weil In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20090120174407.06c92a40@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mark asked me what I meant by dopey junk. I meant, for the most part, the used car salesmen disguised as ministers that flood the airwaves every week. The feel good mega churches that do little more than contribute to urban sprawl while offering their fast food brand of hope. Too much audacity. Little thought. Of course, the sort of fundamental Church that Mark is referring to is something far more creepy. & he's right about the sky God, the Virgin birth, et cetera. We can differentiate between mature Christianity -- Simone Weil, Pascal, Paul Tillich -- and silly, consumer salesmanship. --- On Tue, 1/20/09, Mark Weiss wrote: From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Simone Weil To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Tuesday, January 20, 2009, 5:55 PM Thank you for making this personal. I doubt very much that I've endangered any of the various churches, twisted cynic that I am. Should I also be positive, creative and constructive about other political ideologies, or are you just talking about religions? If so, what's beyond the pale? Let's hear it for mesoamerican human sacrifice. Years ago I dated a woman who had escaped (her term) from the fundamentalist church in which she was raised. Her parents, who to all appearances loved her, told her repeatedly that they feared she would go to hell. My fate went without saying. One morning, in an excess of happiness, I was whistling Amazing Grace. "How can you whistle that terrible song?" she snarled. "Haven't you listened to the words? It says I'm a wretch." That's when I learned that you don't have to imagine a cross burning on the lawn to have been damaged by the faith. What do you mean by creativity? Mark At 02:49 AM 1/20/2009, you wrote: >Hi Mark, > >Shame about your twisted cynical remarks on christianity, as you must >imagine, there are people of all persuasions out here and if we all started >slagging off each others particular ideologies it would make for a rather >sad website so let's get a bit more positive, creative and constructive, >rather than destructive, surely thinking around poetry should include a good >measure of creativity and excursons into the imagination - there doesn't >seem to be much of either going on at the moment! > >Roy Exley. > >================================== >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 03:34:25 -0800 Reply-To: poet_in_hell@yahoo.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve russell Subject: Re: Simone Weil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii begin with Weil. she honed in to the core truth ( if that's the correct word?) of Christianity. the cross, suffering. still, i won't deny the pathology of that ethos. torture. it's grotesque. & i've avoided mentioning the historical slander that Jewish people have had to deal with because of it. the crucifix is a Roman invention. i was raised Catholic. if i remember correctly, i was raised in a church called Roman Catholic. i don't recall a vacant cross (Protestant), i do, however, remember the crucified Christ. Catholicism doesn't sanitize its origins. but it hasn't been fully honest either. i seem to recall something called original sin. hmmm... ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 09:29:22 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: cris cheek Subject: postmoot.net closes tonite MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit midnite hawaii-aleutian time so, if u had anything for the "anthology" send it now u can ofc comment on other posts (up until that time) thanks to all who contributed subsequently we will be tidying the site up a bit and archiving with a view to possible further publication post _ moot collective www.postmoot.net ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 07:56:27 -0800 Reply-To: tsavagebar@yahoo.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: Alexander's poem/ Lowery's Benediction In-Reply-To: <20090120.175045.1748.1.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I liked Elizabeth Alexander's poem.=A0 Maybe it was not the greatest poetry= but within the political context of an inauguration, it wasn't bad.=A0 I v= aguely remember Maya Angelou's awful poem at one of Clinton's inaugurations= (?).=A0 Alexander's poem was much better than that.=A0 Also, the second pr= eacher to speak (Lowry?) did have some poetry in his speech, which was a pl= easant surprise, somewhat making up for the fact that the first preacher wa= s invited to speak at all, given his anti-Gay stance and fundraising activi= ties.=A0 Regards, Tom Savage --- On Tue, 1/20/09, steve d. dalachinsky wrote: From: steve d. dalachinsky Subject: Re: Alexander's poem/ Lowery's Benediction To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Tuesday, January 20, 2009, 5:50 PM both truly sucked - On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 14:29:28 -0500 Gerald Schwartz writes: > Spiritual Life: Poetry and prayer: Parallels of invocationMuch the=20 > way that, say, Lorenzo Thomas' work was, I must say Rev. Dr. Joseph=20 > E. Lowery's Benediction was more poetry than Alexander delivered,=20 > proving in full that POETRY SPEAKS A UNIVERSAL LANGUAGE akin to=20 > prayer. The benediction, like authentic poetry, was an activity. It=20 > activated.=20 >=20 > I am less concerned here, at the start, about what one prays -the=20 > creed of prayer-than that one begins an inner life of words,=20 > praying, or poetry, and that one finds a certain attitude of inner=20 > life. This can be found by at the very start of Lowery's work, of=20 > his saying focal words, using even secular prayers, including a=20 > poetics, even for those of us who have not found God, grace, a=20 > religion, or a church.=20 >=20 > If his benediction was not petry, it is like poetry, like=20 > swimming--one has, sometime, to jump into the words or water and=20 > hope that something will be there. That something will hold one up.=20 > One has to learn the strokes, maybe, on dry land beforehand.=20 >=20 > His prayer itself opened the dimension of the other, of the higher=20 > or the divine. Like an authentic poem, one prayer, is like one grain=20 > of sand on the beach-it starts the dialogue.=20 >=20 > Alexander's poem, without its focus words, was poetry that cannot=20 > help a person in the direction that leads to prayer: that of=20 > wholeness, or healing, which is the secret realm of holiness.=20 >=20 > Lowery's poem/prayer begins with the cultivation of an attitude, not=20 > just in stillness or some strange church, and this is where his=20 > poetry can help prayer: What is the magic word? You need not be a=20 > church person, an Muslim, a Jew, or a Christian to say this poem, or=20 > even a believer, but it can invoke the same attitude of reverence or=20 > relaxation response -that prayer awakes in a person.=20 >=20 > Lowery evoked a poetry activating the memory, attitude, and=20 > perception, and it may be a good beginning or refresher for persons=20 > interested in eliciting the peace, power, and the active inner life=20 > of prayer. After all, prayer and poetry originally come from the=20 > same place, and much early poetry was sacred. Poetry, like prayer,=20 > accompanied ceremonies both at the temple and at the court. They=20 > were observances of the priest and king. They had the function of=20 > ritualizing, raising, and celebrating a sense of higher life. They=20 > were a training and discipline of inner attitude towards public and=20 > divine and even supernatural events. They were the developers of the=20 > culture.=20 >=20 > Alexander failed to recapture some of these beginnings of us and the=20 > world through both poetry and prayer.=20 >=20 > Poetry, from the Greek word poesis (to make), like prayer from the=20 > Sanskrit word pras or prcchati (for asking), often calls on unseen=20 > powers and addresses nature, the lover, time, or the West Wind as=20 > Thou. This is the mood of invocation. It is, philosophically and=20 > grammatically, the vocative relation: the poet calls out "0 Thou" to=20 > the universe. It is the grammatical case, the vocative, in inflected=20 > languages which calls out or invokes. This vocative relation-the=20 > grammar of calling out-is a personalizing, a connectedness with=20 > destiny, death, love and chance, shared by prayer and poetry alike.=20 > The vocative relation, or mood of invocation, is the calling out of=20 > the soul to life itself, be it the West Wind, Joy, the fountains and=20 > meadows, or love, or time, or even death.=20 >=20 > Alexander's poem, though well-constructed, accomplished none of=20 > this. >=20 > Lowery, in his inner life, impersonated the world, and all poetry is=20 > a kind of prayer to the universe.=20 >=20 > Lowery's prayer, can be memorized poems and repeated, revealing an=20 > inner landscape that can offset the evil, trouble, and turmoil of=20 > everyday life, the kind dished up for us by the past eight years of=20 > the previous failure of an administration.=20 >=20 > Lowery's Benediction set the mood of invocation, waking up the inner=20 > dependence we have on beauty, truth, and goodness, and will go=20 > farther than Alexander's poem to help us actually create it. It put=20 > us between a prayer and a meditation. The attitude of the soul, the=20 > poem, enlivens the moment. This is the kind of waking up of the=20 > inner life that the vocative relation, whether addressed to God or=20 > no, can bring.=20 >=20 > The Benediction more than the poem invoked meaning, which is indeed,=20 > the interface between prayer and meditation. In meaning we make an=20 > effort not just with the heart but also with the mind to awaken the=20 > sense of words so that as we repeat the formula or poem, we are=20 > discovering thought afresh.=20 >=20 > Lowery's poem/prayer works, too, because he realizes the outward=20 > world changes. Days change. But the word Grace, constantly repeated,=20 > can measure all vicissitudes. It is the same with poems that we have=20 > internalized, making life ours in an inward song that no outer=20 > circumstances can change. This is that inward landscape of the=20 > relaxation response that can be such a great relief against stress,=20 > effecting even musculoskeletal, fight-or-flight, and=20 > psycho-immunological symptoms. Here Lowery addressed his love. The=20 > attitude of the poem is a prayer.=20 >=20 > Alexander's poem failed to activate the inward life. It had no sense=20 > of what it means to build soul out of words, memory, repetition, and=20 > attitude. Absent was a kind of undertone, as if the mind were=20 > whispering to itself, to love, to destiny, to the universe. There=20 > was no inward speech, whether prayer or poem, between language and=20 > thought.=20 >=20 > The Benediction poem was part prayer, part meditation. We can pray=20 > it, but we can also meditate it.=20 >=20 > Right now, we need this kind of meditation to help us crawl our of=20 > our nightmare. >=20 > It is, on the whole, possible to meditate poetry and, as Re. Dr.=20 > Lowery did, to poeticize a meditation into a prayer. >=20 > Gerald Schwartz=20 >=20 >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check=20 > guidelines & sub/unsub info:=20 > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >=20 >=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 10:17:34 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Skip Fox Subject: Re: Alexander's poem/ Lowery's Benediction In-Reply-To: <20090120.175045.1748.1.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit But to have sucked means to have given someone pleasure, doesn't it? -----Original Message----- From: Poetics List (UPenn, UB) [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of steve d. dalachinsky Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 4:51 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Alexander's poem/ Lowery's Benediction both truly sucked - ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 11:22:25 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Lindsay Wong Subject: NEW BOOK: Sight Map MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Dear Poetics-L: RE: http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/archives/poetics.html The University of California Press is pleased to announce the publication of: Sight Map: Poems Brian Teare is the author of the award-winning The Room Where I Was Born, as well as the forthcoming volume Pleasure and two chapbooks. He has received Stegner, National Endowment for the Arts, and MacDowell Colony poetry fellowships. http://go.ucpress.edu/Teare In Sight Map Brian Teare blends the speculative poetics of the San Francisco Renaissance with a postconfessional candor to embody the "open field" tradition of such poets as Robin Blaser and Robert Duncan. Teare provides us with poems that insist on the simultaneous physical embodiment of tactile pleasure-that which is found in the textures of thought and language-as well as the action of syntax. Partly informed by an ecological imagination that leads him back to Emerson and Thoreau, Teare's method and fragmented style are nevertheless up to the moment. Remarkable in its range, _Sight Map _serves at once as a cross-country travelogue, a pilgrim's gnostic progress, an improvised field guide, and a postmodern "pillowbook," recording the erotic conflation of lover and beloved, deity and doubter. Full information about the book, including the table of contents, is available online: http://go.ucpress.edu/Teare -- ____ Lindsay Wong Electronic Marketing Coordinator University of California Press Phone: 510-643-4738 Email: lindsay.wong@ucpress.edu Website: http://www.ucpress.edu UC Press Blog: http://ucpress.typepad.com/ucpresslog/ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 11:20:07 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Lindsay Wong Subject: NEW BOOK: Virgil and the Mountain Cat MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Dear Poetics-L: RE: http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/archives/poetics.html The University of California Press is pleased to announce the publication of: Virgil and the Mountain Cat: Poems David Lau teaches writing at the University of California, Santa Cruz, and Cabrillo College. His poems have appeared in Boston Review, New Orleans Review, Wildlife, and other magazines. http://go.ucpress.edu/Lau At once uncompromising and highly inventive, David Lau's poems are imbued with a musicality that lightens the dark undertones of spoliation and entropy. Many of the poems embody a nexus of interaction with historical events, films, modernist poetic texts, and works of art-but from this allusion and evocation, a multifarious voice emerges. In these pages, the electric linguistic experiment meets a new urban, postnatural poetics, one in which poetry is not just a play of signs and seemings but also a prismatic investigation of our contemporary order: "Hurry up before our factory leaves. / The first column of the Freedom Tower / traduces its ensorcellment in the facade." Here is a poetry both deeply lyrical and resistant, a poetry relentless in its invention and its stance against the apathy of convention and consumption. Full information about the book, including the table of contents, is available online: http://go.ucpress.edu/Lau -- ____ Lindsay Wong Electronic Marketing Coordinator University of California Press Phone: 510-643-4738 Email: lindsay.wong@ucpress.edu Website: http://www.ucpress.edu UC Press Blog: http://ucpress.typepad.com/ucpresslog/ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 11:24:51 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jennifer Karmin Subject: WEEK THREE: When Does It or You Begin? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable WHEN DOES IT OR YOU BEGIN? (MEMORY AS INNOVATION) Festival of Writing, Performance, & Video Curated by Amina Cain & Jennifer Karmin at Links Hall 3435 N. Sheffield Avenue Chicago, IL WEEK THREE Memory=E2=80=99s Encounter: The Language of Position featuring experimental literature, creative lectures, and multimedia presen= tations FRIDAY, JANUARY 23 at 8pm Karen Christopher Quraysh Ali Lansana with collaborators [G Baker, Preston Poe, Craig Nakamoto, Shanta Nurullah]=20 Vanessa Place Nathalie Stephens (Nathana=C3=ABl) video by Cecilia Vicu=C3=B1a=20 talkback with Ed Roberson SATURDAY, JANUARY 24 at 8pm Teresa Carmody with Vanessa Place Nathalie Stephens (Nathana=C3=ABl) with Christine Stewart video by Gaelen Hanson video by Cecilia Vicu=C3=B1a SUNDAY, JANUARY 25 at 7pm Teresa Carmody Karen Christopher Quraysh Ali Lansana with collaborators [G Baker, Preston Poe, Craig Nakamoto, Shanta Nurullah]=20 Christine Stewart video by Gaelen Hanson TICKETS $12 $10 students, seniors, & working artists/writers FULL SCHEDULE ONLINE http://www.linkshall.org/09-pp-jan.shtml COMMUNITY EVENT Open House hosted by Laurie Jo Reynolds Thursday, January 29 from 7-9pm in Logan Square $10, reservations and advance ticket purchase required LINKS HALL BLOG http://linkshallinsidethestudio.blogspot.com =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 11:24:32 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Lindsay Wong Subject: NEW BOOK: Transcendental Studies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Dear Poetics-L: RE: http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/archives/poetics.html The University of California Press is pleased to announce the publication of: Transcendental Studies: A Trilogy Keith Waldrop, Brooke Russell Astor Professor of Humanities at Brown University, has published more than a dozen works each of original poetry and translations. His first book, A Windmill Near Calvary, was shortlisted for the 1968 National Book Award. Recent books include The Real Subject: Queries and Conjectures of Jacob Delafon, with Sample Poems, The House Seen from Nowhere, and a translation of The Flowers of Evil by Charles Baudelaire. http://go.ucpress.edu/Waldrop This compelling selection of recent work by internationally celebrated poet Keith Waldrop presents three related poem sequences-"Shipwreck in Haven," "Falling in Love through a Description," and "The Plummet of Vitruvius"-in a virtuosic poetic triptych. In these quasi-abstract, experimental lines, collaged words torn from their contexts take on new meanings. Waldrop, a longtime admirer of such artists as the French poet Raymond Queneau and the American painter Robert Motherwell, imposes a tonal override on purloined materials, yet the originals continue to show through. These powerful poems, at once metaphysical and personal, reconcile Waldrop's romantic tendencies with formal experimentation, uniting poetry and philosophy and revealing him as a transcendentalist for the new millennium. Full information about the book, including the table of contents, is available online: http://go.ucpress.edu/Waldrop -- ____ Lindsay Wong Electronic Marketing Coordinator University of California Press Phone: 510-643-4738 Email: lindsay.wong@ucpress.edu Website: http://www.ucpress.edu UC Press Blog: http://ucpress.typepad.com/ucpresslog/ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 16:47:39 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: very special gig shiraishi also reads jan 28 at st marks and jan 30 at MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit legendary Japanese poet Kazuko Shiraishi the mother of Japanese Jazz and Beat poetry will read her work with Oki Itaru on trumpet Saturday January 31 at 2pm at the Bowery Poetry club guest readers will be Ira cohen and Steve Dalachinsky admission is $6 - info email skyplums@juno.com or call 1212 925-5256 or directly to the BPC ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 23:41:56 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Dan Wilcox Subject: Re: Alexander's poem/ Lowery's Benediction Comments: To: Gerald Schwartz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain It's just two different things & not all poems are prayers to existin= g (or non-existing) deities=20 -- one's not better than the other & there's no reason to compare. I'm glad Obama had a poet at his ceremony (unlike Bush) & wish he had= upheld the=20 Constitution & banned the clerics (unlike Bush). =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 23:43:26 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Dan Wilcox Subject: Re: Alexander's poem/ Lowery's Benediction Comments: To: "Steve D. Dalachinsky" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain http://blogs.timesunion.com/localarts/?p=3D1578 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 00:38:47 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Carol Novack Subject: Elizabeth Alexander's poem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's what I posted on my blog on 1/21. If the link below to the N+1 article doesn't work, find it at http://carolnovack.blogspot.com. Inaugural Verse | n 1 The award-winning Elizabeth Alexander was a safe choice. Her poem was and had to be (ahem) accessible to the "masses." It was also totally unsurprising, shallow, cliche-ridden and uninspiring, exhibiting a dearth of delight in, and dexterity with the English language. At least she didn't mention God or our Lord, I think (I wasn't riveted to my sofa). I mean, practically everyone else did during and aft. Ho hum. Ho ho hum. Hum drum. Such a God-fearing country. Well, so here's someone else's discussion of Ms. Alexander's "poetry." Inaugural Verse | n 1 ____ http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2687 ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:00:31 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Re: Alexander's poem, Dospassos, Marilyn Nelson... Comments: To: Dan Wilcox MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It's just two different things & not all poems are prayers to existing (or non-existing) deities -- one's not better than the other & there's no reason to compare. Since this is more (and oft times less) a language (langpo) list, and since her poem seemed to be as much concerned with language as it was with the interpersonal encounter and exchange, her DosPassos-like scope was very offset by attempts to pick and choose and weave so many plyable details. If Alexander had followed through with her plan to use the praise song form, utilizing its full potential (all the tools in the box) of Rhythm, incantation and call-and-response-- which indeed her poem's title promised, it might have risen in potential. Now, while I won't go as far s Steven D. to say her poem sucked, (no pun, but not much more than quickie of a blow-off in the back alley by the dumpster) I will stay to the closer reading, which finds much of her diction shop-worn ("gliitering edifices""). I'm glad Obama had a poet at his ceremony (unlike Bush) & wish he had upheld the Constitution & banned the clerics (unlike Bush). Interesting, perhaps even telling point you made here: How much lee-way was Alexander given with her charge? How much was she urged to bring it into alignment with Obama's speech? I'll bet there's a story there, since the work was abundnt with echoes of both tone and imagery. The movement of "walking" she used seemed spot on with Obama's regular use of the words "path", "the road", "the journey". Seems as though she chose the path of oratory, rather than the demanding road of poetry, making nothing new, never once discarding the off-the-shelf metaphor, or pushing it chimera-like to a new place. List poems, and this was a list poem, are difficult to end in a satisfying way. Whitman did it. Andy Clausen did it. Ponge got it did in many of his prose poems. And while Alexander seemed to give it her best, what she seved up was stale. The ending fell into as much clutter as a two-year old's Jenga-looking playroom. We were waiting for a last line, a last phrase that had already left the building. Yes, the occasional poem, like this one with its global audience, should still give us something new (as Marilyn Nelson did this week with her's), something unexpected, speaking its truth to power. If not for that, why bother? There are many better works in her body of work. I wish she had given the poeple some. Good to see you on the list, Dan. g. e. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 14:07:41 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Kyle Schlesinger Subject: ON CALL Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable ON: Contemporary Practice 2 [CALL FOR WORK] =20 =20 The first issue of ON, a journal devoted to contemporary poetics, featured over twenty essays (and a few epistolary collaborations) focused on poets such as Taylor Brady, kari edwards, Brenda Iijima, CJ Martin, Emily McVarish, Yedda Morrison, Hoa Nguyen, Sawako Nakayasu, Julie Patton, Dana Ward, and Alli Warren. Our goal is to offer a survey of the field =8Cas it stands,=B9 written by and for those =8Cwe=B9 are reading and discussing, with the intention of bringing reflection to a discourse during a prodigious cultura= l moment. We hope you=B9ll contribute to the second issue by engaging with the practice, poetry and poetics of one of your closest contemporaries. =20 Guidelines:=20 =20 1. ON encourages contributors to investigate a =B3practice,=B2 rather than a solitary poem, chapbook, performance, review, art object, etc. 2. The subject should roughly be of your generation =AD generation defined as you see fit. 3. There are no strict limits on page count =AD essays in ON 1 ranged from 1 to 18 pages. 4. Please feel free to share this solicitation with writers from your community and colleagues who may have escaped our attention. 5. Submissions should be single-spaced set in 10 pt. Palatino. For additional formatting requirements, please refer to the most recent Chicago Manual of Style. Please send either a hardcopy or PDF along with your word document. 6. We suggest that you check out the first issue if you haven=B9t done so already. Copies are available from Small Press Distribution. 7. Please also include a 35-word bio. =20 Deadline for submissions is May 1, 2009. ON will be available in print and digital online formats. Please direct all submissions and questions to any of the addresses below, and thank you in advance for being ON. =20 Cordially, =20 Michael Cross Kyle Schlesinger Thom Donovan Distributed by Small Press Distribution: http://www.spdbooks.org/ More info available at: http://oncontemporaries.wordpress.com/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 15:37:49 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Alan Sondheim Subject: [WDL] transmediale.09 online (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 12:57:42 -0700 From: John Hopkins Reply-To: WRITING-AND-THE-DIGITAL-LIFE@JISCMAIL.AC.UK To: WRITING-AND-THE-DIGITAL-LIFE@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Subject: [WDL] transmediale.09 online Hei folks -- < Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Troy Camplin Subject: Re: Alexander's poem/ Lowery's Benediction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The Constitution in no way "bans the clerics" from speaking at an inauguration. The 1st Amendment prohibits the government from setting up a state religion that all must be a part of and prohibits the government from prohibiting "the free exercise" of any religion you choose to follow. It sounds to me that you are trying to get Obama to violate his own civil rights in trying to make him prohibit himself from freely exercising his own religion. On a side note, I wish he would uphold the Constitution, but I suspect that, like Bush, he will not. If he actually upheld the Constitution 99% of the federal government would have to be abolished. Troy Camplin ________________________________ From: Dan Wilcox To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 10:41:56 PM Subject: Re: Alexander's poem/ Lowery's Benediction It's just two different things & not all poems are prayers to existing (or non-existing) deities -- one's not better than the other & there's no reason to compare. I'm glad Obama had a poet at his ceremony (unlike Bush) & wish he had upheld the Constitution & banned the clerics (unlike Bush). ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 07:55:11 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Steve Halle Subject: Holms Troelstrup @ Seven Corners MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm excited to announce five new poems by *Holms Troelstrup* at *Seven Corners* ( http://www.sevencornerspoetry.blogspot.com/). This is her first published work. Please take a few minutes to check out this emerging voice. Best, Steve Halle Editor ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 11:54:39 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Alan Sondheim online Second Life opening in uqbar, media art culture e Rinascimento Virtuale (you can see it now) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/Mixed; BOUNDARY="0-1957874677-1232643203=:17048" This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --0-1957874677-1232643203=:17048 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=utf-8; FORMAT=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Content-ID: (please post) Alan Sondheim uqbar. media art culture e Rinascimento Virtuale Vi invitano all'apertura di /Invite you at the Opening of Alan Sondheim aka Alan Dojoji Friday, January 23 - Sunday, January 25, 2009 (10 PM CET - 01 PM SLT) ARENA EX.IT slurl: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Experience%20Italy%20NW/128/128/37 4 PM New York Time Web http://www.alansondheim.org http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ __________________________________________ Debris Field is composed of all the objects I have worked with for the past eight months in Odyssey; it's an archaeology of one site by another - an archaeology that constructs something new out of the ruins. It's not ruins: It's compressed history. It's a history of compression, of textures, of objects, of mistakes, of failures, of errors, of misery, of language/sex/body, of avatar sheave-skin. It what happens when an insomniac gets hold of a virtual world. Performance with Sandy Baldwin at opening Song and sound by Azure Carter Architecture for a new year: - shapes matter less than the comfort that coheres within them. - outside assume vagaries and opposition. - architectures as transitional objects. - living within the teddy-bear. - in the Second Life installation: dynamic micro-architectures of - deconstruction and enclosure. - no entrances, no exits: one appears, disappears. - what constitutes coming and going are virtual particles =3D people. - virtual to the extent that one passes through doors and walls: one passes through flats, nodes, and textures. nothing is comfortable when the transitional turns on you. - Second Life =3D transitional object =3D preparation for virtual life. - real life =3D virtual life; body =3D inscription; wryting =3D body; - uncanny =3D inscription; world =3D word; word =3D idiotic. - micro-architectures of the visible: setting up the camera image just so: harboring time of day, weather, height, distance from avatar or avatar viewpoint, location beneath the ground or water surface or clothing, location in collusion with sheave-skin, moment of capture =3D arrangement of objects in flight. - micro-architectures within objects in flight: buildings escaped from occupants, homes escaped from families, dwellings escaped from inhabitants, bodies escaped from inscription. - bodies escaped from inscription: debris of the body, abjection. - abjection in micro-architecture: no place to sit, no place to lie: an avatar never lies. no place to sleep: an avatar never sleeps; no place to declare: an avatar tells the truth. - coordinates, program, language, protocol, code, alphanumerics, binary oppositions: the truth of anything unforsaken in the saying of it. - micro-architectures: between code and architecture. For Arena installation in Second Life: 1. Dropping those objects which have been taken - piled, flight: every- thing flees, there's always clear space. 2. Physical objects: non-phantom, but dropped, held in position, but whatever for? 3. Something tawdry, indigestible. 4. Flight to such a degree that they soon tunnel out of site (for most settings), head out of world - the site has to be _tended,_ constantly refurbished. Tended =3D a tendency to _disappear._ 5. To work on _inpenetrable_ sound. 6. To work on transparent non-phantom objects: another position. 7. Intensities as things meld into one another - in the form of a debris field. 8. Debris field =3D Gaza-slaughter. (title?) 9. Particulation of objects. 10. Object rings with internal physical objects can't get out. 11. None of the above. 12. Try and reach 4098m with pile. (Got to 2327.) How to view here and in the Odyssey show suggestions - 1. Try turning the glow off. Go to preferences, graphics, and uncheck basic shading, if it's on. Basic shading seems to use up more resources than anything else with the rendering engine. You can also set things like rendering distance; the lower the distance, the faster the loading. 2. Turn the video media button off. This on the lower right-hand corner of the screen. If you turn it on, the texture-mapping consumes a huge amount of resources. On the other hand, the audio for the parcel (the audio button) runs fairly lean. 3. If you find the space too cluttered to enter, try flying in. 4. If you find flying in too cluttered, fly higher, and drop in. There is a dome in the center of the space which you can enter. 5. Most objects on the ground level (and some beneath the ground, on the seafloor) will flee from you - what looks crowded from a distance might well clear out. 6. If it clears out, look up - you'll see all sorts of things above you. 7. Fly vertically to see the rest of the exhibition. If you can't fly as high as you want, click control-alt-d, which opens up an advanced menu. Open the menu and get rid of camera constraints. You can then move the camera at a great distance from your avatar body - your viewpoint moves independently, and you can move at least to the top of the exhibition, which is maybe a mile or so up, SL measurement. 8. If you get stuck anywhere, teleport back in. 9. Try moving inside the objects; the interior textures are often different from the exterior ones (this is almost always the case with the spheres). 10. You can push objects vertically into the sky by moving beneath them and flying; they flee upwards. 11. You can see the exhibition 'differently' by using the advanced menu, going to render, and then looking for info - clicking on any one of the info options will give you different viewpoints. 12. You can often sit on moving objects, which will whirl you around; if you sit on an object that moves vertically as a result of your proximity, you can ride it up. When you stand up again, you can fall down back into the space. The riding height seems to be around 4098 SL units, but unless you have a flight bracelet or feather, you probably won't go that high. (Gaz can go anywhere.) 13. Moving about on the ground level, keep the sound turned on (lower right), and you'll hear a variety of songs about SL and language. These mix with a number of looping sound modules embedded in the space. 14. Go to http://www.kippiefriedkin.com/resources/secondlife-viewer-cheatsheet.pdf for shortcuts for all sorts of rendering possibilities; most of these are also available in the menu or advanced menu. 15. If you've been moving around SL a lot, go to preferences, and empty your cache; this might speed things up. You'll have to restart SL again. 16. If you see a sign for teleporting, try it. Sometimes it will lead back to the ground level, sometimes to the seabed, sometimes to a skysphere. All of these locations have clickable objects which will take you else- where (or back to the same space but at a slightly different location). You might have to right-click on the object, then click on teleport - or you might just left click - it depends on the object. 17, Try different 'lenses' - click on control-8 to make the image wide- angle, control-9 to return to normal, control-0 for telephoto. Repeated clicks work as well - with control-8 you can create extreme distortions. 18, Try moving into 'small' spaces and look about. You can save snapshots of anything you see, on your hard drive. 19. That's about it. The general idea is to run lean, fly about, teleport back if you're stuck, play with the controls. The architecture is constantly changing and deconstructing itself =C2=96 play. original exhibition http://slurl.com/secondlife/Odyssey/48/12/22 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html --0-1957874677-1232643203=:17048-- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 18:18:12 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: Re: Alexander's poem/ Lowery's Benediction Comments: To: Troy Camplin In-Reply-To: 479021.82757.qm@web46207.mail.sp1.yahoo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 The passage in our constitution that says Congress "shall make no law respecting an etablishment of religion" means much more than simply that the government cannot set up a state religion that all must be part of . . . But neither does it appear to prohibit the extending of invitations to clerics to say a few words at a public ceremony -- Though I note that even while making room for "non-believers" in his remarks, Obama didn't invite any "openly atheistic" speakers to add a few words to the occasion.  How 'bout a secular humanist benediction, huh? But what's with this long tradition of adding "so help me God" to the oath? -- the whole reason that the constitutionally prescribed oath, which Roberts mucked up, allows a president to "affirm" instead of "swear" is a recognition that some among us have objections of conscience to swearing oaths -- Take a look at the chain of Supreme Court decisions about whether Jehovah's Wintnesses can be compelled to recite the pledge of allegiance for one example of just how important this is -- On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 05:31 PM, Troy Camplin wrote: > The Constitution in no way "bans the clerics" from speaking at an >inauguration. The 1st Amendment prohibits the government from setting up a >state religion that all must be a part of and prohibits the government from >prohibiting "the free exercise" of any religion you choose to follow. >It sounds to me that you are trying to get Obama to violate his own civil >rights in trying to make him prohibit himself from freely exercising his own >religion. > >On a side note, I wish he would uphold the Constitution, but I suspect that, >like Bush, he will not. If he actually upheld the Constitution 99% of the >federal government would have to be abolished. > >Troy Camplin > > > >________________________________ >From: Dan Wilcox >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 10:41:56 PM >Subject: Re: Alexander's poem/ Lowery's Benediction > >It's just two different things & not all poems are prayers to existing >(or non-existing) deities >-- one's not better than the other & there's no reason to compare. >I'm glad Obama had a poet at his ceremony (unlike Bush) & wish he >had upheld the >Constitution & banned the clerics (unlike Bush). > >================================== >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines >& sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > >================================== >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines >& sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> "Study the fine art of coming apart." --Jerry W. Ward, Jr. Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 16:51:55 -0800 Reply-To: poet_in_hell@yahoo.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve russell Subject: GUANTANAMO MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Obama has (promised) to close Gauntanamo. is this an empty gesture? torture is often outsourced... how much transparency can we expect from the current administration? Chelsea Green has introduced a new series called "Politics of the Living," a collection of hard-hitting works by major writers exposing the global governmental and corporate assualt on life. www.chelseagreen.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 17:04:55 -0800 Reply-To: poet_in_hell@yahoo.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve russell Subject: Re: Alexander's poem, Dospassos, Marilyn Nelson... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Philip Larkin had more than a few opportunities to read a poem during an official, stately occasion. He refused them. --- On Thu, 1/22/09, Gerald Schwartz wrote: From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Re: Alexander's poem, Dospassos, Marilyn Nelson... To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Thursday, January 22, 2009, 9:00 AM It's just two different things & not all poems are prayers to existing (or non-existing) deities -- one's not better than the other & there's no reason to compare. Since this is more (and oft times less) a language (langpo) list, and since her poem seemed to be as much concerned with language as it was with the interpersonal encounter and exchange, her DosPassos-like scope was very offset by attempts to pick and choose and weave so many plyable details. If Alexander had followed through with her plan to use the praise song form, utilizing its full potential (all the tools in the box) of Rhythm, incantation and call-and-response-- which indeed her poem's title promised, it might have risen in potential. Now, while I won't go as far s Steven D. to say her poem sucked, (no pun, but not much more than quickie of a blow-off in the back alley by the dumpster) I will stay to the closer reading, which finds much of her diction shop-worn ("gliitering edifices""). I'm glad Obama had a poet at his ceremony (unlike Bush) & wish he had upheld the Constitution & banned the clerics (unlike Bush). Interesting, perhaps even telling point you made here: How much lee-way was Alexander given with her charge? How much was she urged to bring it into alignment with Obama's speech? I'll bet there's a story there, since the work was abundnt with echoes of both tone and imagery. The movement of "walking" she used seemed spot on with Obama's regular use of the words "path", "the road", "the journey". Seems as though she chose the path of oratory, rather than the demanding road of poetry, making nothing new, never once discarding the off-the-shelf metaphor, or pushing it chimera-like to a new place. List poems, and this was a list poem, are difficult to end in a satisfying way. Whitman did it. Andy Clausen did it. Ponge got it did in many of his prose poems. And while Alexander seemed to give it her best, what she seved up was stale. The ending fell into as much clutter as a two-year old's Jenga-looking playroom. We were waiting for a last line, a last phrase that had already left the building. Yes, the occasional poem, like this one with its global audience, should still give us something new (as Marilyn Nelson did this week with her's), something unexpected, speaking its truth to power. If not for that, why bother? There are many better works in her body of work. I wish she had given the poeple some. Good to see you on the list, Dan. g. e. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 09:39:20 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: laura hinton Subject: Re: Alexander's poem/ Lowery's Benediction In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's my post-inaugural poem. Laura Hinton Millions Witness a Profound Moment in Nation's History-- New York Times headline just after Obama's inauguaration I'm sitting on a real-marble floor in this small southern French town -- the food shops closed early or at half-mask as if a death but in honor of beer glasses full and CNN streaming live in bars open wide to neighborhood provencials all of whom voted for Sarkozy (before he married Carla Bruni) so they can watch with pride *their own* first U.S. president who is black sworn in, president of my country hated here not just "since Reagan" (New York Times writes today) but since I was a child and it was "Vietnam," and the people in the cafe don't understand why at 4 p.m. on the beach I should leave the sunshine, the ball game, the kissing dogs, my Coke Light half empty to hurry home so quickly driving back through winding roads up altitudes filtered by January veils of water-mist mixed with smoke from burning underbrush -- ash to ash, they always burn the old wood here, the dead wood these bright winter days -- while *baous* form little arks of illuminations golden light top to top and nothing else save the landscape's evening greyness but there's no missing Rick Warren say his mea culpa before his God Aretha Franklin singing Say Can You See in her basso profundo hat Rev. Lowery rhyming "yellow can be mellow" and everyone watching Little Bush and Daddy Bush get on their helicopter wave bye bye and the whole world wondering -- if it ever can be right when a helicopter's half-hand is seen out a window four people, half white, half black, like souls standing there, on the nation's backstairs freezing, waving bye-bye back ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 01:24:53 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Louis Cabri Subject: Re: Alexander's poem/ Lowery's Benediction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Obama's was best, Lowery's an awesome second. Tied for third, Alexander's and Warren's, only because "the Saddelback" fascinated perversely for how he kind of sucked his flesh into himself so as to verbally present a humbled and puritanically burnished, exteriorized rhetoric (even while condescension continued dripping onto the face of many phrases, a nervous sweat of long e's and i's). Alexander's had CNN camera help, with frequent cuts, during her stately blank iambics, to the blanks of mall space emerging as crowds dispersed (something Jon Stewart joked about, at poetry's expense). Lowery's! Coming in from the side somewhere, as he spoke. Aspirating syllables, so as to give necessary indirection to some of what wanted saying, one might even say a roughness and plainness to it all. Lowery! Was his rhyme a re-articulated patchwork of 60s song allusions (Donovan, etc), or that target too overdetermined? ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 22:06:59 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Nelson's poem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Marilyn Nelson's front page poem (which is taking a lot of heat (Hey,=20 what does THAT say?), packs so much truth of our last eight years, as=20 well as all that will be told with time: www.courant.com/news/elections/hc-albarackpoem0120.artjan20,0,106471.story There's no way that this would have been read on that day in front of the D= ome, but it did make it into ink. Gerald S.=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 23:18:25 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: enough to make you swear MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 post-script:  Thursday one of the dorks at Fox News suggested that Obama might not really be President because he didn't have his hand on a Bible when they had the oath do-over at the White House -- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> "Study the fine art of coming apart." --Jerry W. Ward, Jr. Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 02:49:48 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: gig Comments: To: Acousticlv@aol.com, AdeenaKarasick@cs.com, AGosfield@aol.com, alonech@acedsl.com, Altjazz@aol.com, amirib@aol.com, Amramdavid@aol.com, anansi1@earthlink.net, AnselmBerrigan@aol.com, arlenej2@verizon.net, Barrywal23@aol.com, bdlilrbt@icqmail.com, butchershoppoet@hotmail.com, CarolynMcClairPR@aol.com, CaseyCyr@aol.com, CHASEMANHATTAN1@aol.com, Djmomo17@aol.com, Dsegnini1216@aol.com, Gfjacq@aol.com, Hooker99@aol.com, rakien@gmail.com, jeromerothenberg@hotmail.com, Jeromesala@aol.com, JillSR@aol.com, JoeLobell@cs.com, JohnLHagen@aol.com, kather8@katherinearnoldi.com, Kevtwi@aol.com, krkubert@hotmail.com, LakiVaz@aol.com, Lisevachon@aol.com, Nuyopoman@AOL.COM, Pedevski@aol.com, pom2@pompompress.com, Rabinart@aol.com, Rcmorgan12@aol.com, reggiedw@comcast.net, RichKostelanetz@aol.com, RnRBDN@aol.com, Smutmonke@aol.com, sprygypsy@yahoo.com, SHoltje@aol.com, Sumnirv@aol.com, tcumbie@nyc.rr.com, velasquez@nyc.com, VITORICCI@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit legendary Japanese poet Kazuko Shiraishi the mother of Japanese Jazz and Beat poetry will read her work with Oki Itaru on trumpet Saturday January 31 at 2pm at the Bowery Poetry club guest readers will be Ira cohen and Steve Dalachinsky admission is $6 - info email skyplums@juno.com or call 1212 925-5256 or directly to the BPC Cc: skyplums@juno.com Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 12:04:16 -0500 Subject: 1 - sorry everyone a cancellation Message-ID: <20070221.120635.-410191.17.skyplums@juno.com> ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 06:00:05 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jordan Stempleman Subject: Call for Applications: International Writing Program (University of Iowa) In-Reply-To: <00d101c97734$ec1d07a0$c45716e0$@net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Life of Discovery=20 Call for Applications=97Deadline February 20=2C 2009=20 =20 In 2009=2C the International Writing Program (IWP)=2C in cooperation with t= he Chinese Writers' Association=2C is commencing a pilot exchange project= =2C the Life of Discovery (LOD)=2C between writers and artists from the Uni= ted States and from the minority ethnic communities in the western regions = of the People's Republic of China. Five American and five Chinese writers a= nd artists=2C all aged 25-40=2C will be invited to join two senior artists= =2C one from each country=2C in a series of collaborative=2C bilingual proj= ects=2C conducted first in Western China (over the course of sixteen days i= n mid-May=2C 2009) and continued and elaborated upon in the US (five to sev= en days at the end of September=2C 2009).=20 Knowledge of Chinese is not required for American participants=2C nor Engli= sh for Chinese participants.=20 =20 LOD is sponsored through grant funds provided by the Bureau of Educational = and Cultural Affairs of the US State Department. These will cover all relev= ant expenses for the US participants: round-trip international travel to Ch= ina and travel within China=2C domestic travel in the US=2C lodging=2C per = diem for meals=2C work materials=2C visa costs=2C health insurance=2C trans= lation and interpreting.=20 =20 For more details on the exchange=2C the dates and proposed locations=2C go = to http://iwp.uiowa.edu/projects/discovery/index.html=20 =20 The IWP invites applications from=20 =20 =B7 Early-career writers of fiction=2C poetry=2C drama=2C screenplays=2C li= terary translation=2C and/or non-fiction=2C who have at least one published= (or contracted) volume.=20 =B7 Artists from other disciplines=2C including time-based media=2C music= =2C dance=2C or the visual arts.=20 =20 Applications will be judged on a number of criteria=2C including creative m= erit=2C interest in cross-cultural activity=2C and the ability to contribut= e to a diverse and long-term exchange with Chinese counterparts of minority= status.=20 =20 Applications may be hardcopy or electronic and should include:=20 A1. Writing sample (no more than 15 pages=3B may be a photocopy or scan of = published work)=3B or=20 A2. Portfolio of artwork. Digital portfolios should be readable on a PC.=20 Limit time-based or web-based work to a total of 10 minutes. Provide concis= e instructions for viewing/listening to time-based or web-based work. These= instructions are especially important for reviewing web-based material tha= t the reviewers might otherwise browse randomly. No more than 10 minutes of= material will be reviewed. Include a typed=2C numbered=20 list that identifies each image or time-based piece by title=2C date=2C med= ium=2C size=2C and other appropriate information.=20 Provide a self-addressed mailer and sufficient postage for return of all ma= terials.=20 B. Resum=E9=20 C. Project proposal (300-600 words)=20 D. Statement confirming ability to travel in remote and rural areas.=20 The resum=E9 should include any experience relevant to LOD (such as interna= tional travel or grants=2C volunteer work=2C other exchanges=2C etc.)=2C in= addition to artistic credentials and professional accomplishments.=20 =20 The project proposal should describe=2C in concrete terms=2C a proposed col= laboration between some or all of the participants in the 2009 LOD project.= It should take into consideration all of the following:=20 =B7 Twelve writers and artists of different genres and disciplines will be = present.=20 =B7 There will be a heavy reliance on interpreting and translation.=20 =B7 The periods spent face-to-face (10-12 days in China=2C 5-7 days in the = US) will occur four months apart. That interval may also be included in you= r proposal.=20 If you have participated in a similar collaborative effort in the past=2C w= e recommend including this in your proposal for illustrative purposes. Whil= e the IWP has experience in creative collaboration=2C we welcome new ideas.= =20 =20 Please send applications=2C by post or email=2C to=20 =20 Tammy Petro=20 International Writing Program=20 Shambaugh House=20 430 N. Clinton=20 Iowa City=2C IA 52245=20 319-335-3817=20 Tammy-Petro@uiowa.edu=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html Windows Live=99: Keep your life in sync. Check it out. _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live=99: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect.=20 http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_explore_012009= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 19:59:04 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mark Weiss Subject: hello, I must be going Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Signing off from now til Feb. 10. For those who need to, I can be reached backchannel. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 12:10:18 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: John Cunningham Subject: Oulipo & Christian Bok MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Can anyone advise of any other poetry books and poets besides Christian Bok's 'Eunoia' written in the manner of Oulipo? John Herbert Cunningham ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 12:12:03 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: John Cunningham Subject: Proemes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Now that it has been established that Francis Ponge was the creator of proemes, what exactly is a proeme? How is it different from a prose poem? John Herbert Cunningham ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 13:51:27 -0800 Reply-To: ndm_g@yahoo.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Andy Gricevich Subject: Nonsense Company and Cannot Exist reading--NYC and Philly MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, all! On February 1st, the Nonsense Company (of which I comprise a third) will pe= rform Great Hymn of Thanksgiving / Conversation Storm in Philadelphia, followed by a two-week run at NYC's Interborough Repertory Theater. We've been performing these pieces for a couple of years, and they're in the best shape they're likely to achieve before we retire them in the face of inevitable comments about the obsolescence of work about war and torture in the Obama era. In any case, here they are, with intricate group speech, dinner table percussion, precise acting and formally odd composition.=20 Also, on January 31st, the SEGUE foundation will host a launch reading for = the fourth issue of Cannot Exist, the magazine I started editing last February. Lots of great poets will be there to read their work and talk ab= out magazines, politics, culture, and so forth.=20 All the info follows. Hope you can make it to something! cheers, Andy G.=20 CANNOT EXIST launch reading January 31st, 4-6 p.m. Bowery Poetry Club 308 Bowery (just north of Houston) $6 Cannot Exist #4: a politics of magazine culture Come join Eileen Myles, Rodrigo Toscano, Christina Strong, Laura Sims, Lawr= ence Griffin, Rick Burkhardt, Thom Donovan and others for Segue's launch of= Cannot Exist #4, a magazine edited by Andy Gricevich of Madison, WI devoted to overlap between politics, philosophy, and poetry. Presentations and readings will be followed by an open conversation about the politics of magazine culture--how the small magazine can affect politics and establish a cultural commons. http://segueseries.blogspot.com GREAT HYMN OF THANKSGIVING / CONVERSATION STORM February 1st, 8 p.m. (doors at 7:30) The Rotunda 4014 Walnut St., Philadelphia $5-15 suggested with special guests The Prince Myshkins http://puppetuprising.org February 3-15 (8 p.m./ Sundays at 3 p.m./no shows 2/9-10) Interborough Repertory Theater 154 Christopher St. 3B, Manhattan $15=20 tickets available through Theatermania: http://www.theatermania.com/ticketing/index.cfm/show/150898 Great Hymn of Thanksgiving takes place at a dinner table, where the sounds of conversation have been replaced with fragmented news reports, scraps from the Army prayer manual, faux-Middle-Eastern folk tales, and disembodied cries of emergency.=C2=A0 The sculpted sounds of the table itself -- scooting chairs= , singing wineglasses, squeaking forks -- force this "conversation" into a confrontation with material reality. In Conversation Storm, three friends from three sides of the political spectrum unwillingly argue their way through a ticking time bomb scenario, revising, dissecting, and even brutalizing their own positions in the process -- but time has either stopped or entered an ugly loop, and as the friends assign and reassign roles, the scenario begins to dissolve the boundaries between real and hypothetical, past and future, day and night. Winner: "Best New Play," San Francisco Fringe 2007, and "Best of the Fest" = New York FRIGID Festival 2008.=20 =E2=80=9CAn avant-garde musical dinner party unlike anything you=E2=80=99ve seen before= , paired up with an escalating, yet non-linear, conversation about the "ticking time bomb" scenario that questions the ethics of torture in one of the most hysterically frightening works of theater this year.=E2=80= =9D Aaron Riccio, New Theater Corps NYC =E2=80=9CThrilling performances... spiked with intense shots of satire.=C2=A0 Through precise delivery and the sheer force of their concept and subject material, [the Nonsense Company] captivate their audience even as they disorient it.=E2=80=9D Ronni Reich, Backstage New York =E2=80=9CRemarkable.... exemplifies what indie/fringe theatre is supposed to be.... hilariously funny and awesomely tragic at the same time... Our eyes and ears remain open and aware despite the disorientation.=C2=A0 [The Nonsense Company] prove themselves artists to be reckoned with in this, their New York debut. We need them to come back with more of their work.=E2=80=9D Martin Denton, nytheatre.com =E2=80=9C[Madison] rarely witnesses a company taking so many elaborately conceived risks on its own terms, or with such immediacy, as The Nonsense Company.=C2=A0 Rick Burkhardt, Andy Gricevich, and Ryan Higgins create shows that expand the perspectives and materials of theater, twitching from one vantage point to another, from ghastly grandeur to snips of irony.=E2=80=9D Scott Gordon, The Onion AV Club =E2=80=9CMoving, funny, and provocative... theater at its best.=E2=80=9D Joey Seiler,=E2=80=A8 Austin 360 =E2=80=9CStrange and compelling pieces.... introspective, recursive,=E2=80=A8highly charged.= ... stunningly choreographed into visual theater=E2=80=A8as well as an aural melange.=E2=80=9D Dave Romm,=E2=80=A8Shockwave Radio, KFAI Minneapolis http://www.nonsensecompany.com=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 15:22:40 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Oulipo & Christian Bok In-Reply-To: <000601c97d85$d91abba0$8b5032e0$@net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Yeah, Victor Coleman's America. gb On Jan 23, 2009, at 10:10 AM, John Cunningham wrote: > Can anyone advise of any other poetry books and poets besides > Christian > Bok's 'Eunoia' written in the manner of Oulipo? > > John Herbert Cunningham > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/ > welcome.html > George Bowering, M.A. Acclaimed for his modesty. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 15:25:24 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ron Starr Subject: Re: Oulipo & Christian Bok In-Reply-To: <000601c97d85$d91abba0$8b5032e0$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ian Monk _Writings for the Oulipo_ and _Family Archaeology and Other Poems_, both from Make Now. Philip Terry, _Oulipoems_, Ahadada Books. Ron Starr _A Map by a Dim Lamp_, Ravenna Press. Doug Nufer, _We Were Werewolves_, Make Now. Catherine Daly, _To Delite and Instruct_, blue lion. Cahterine Daly, _DaDaDa_, Salt. Georges Perec, _Alphabets_, Galilee. ...among others. The Oulipo Compendium can provide pointers to other sources as, I'm sure, can others on this list. -Ron Starr > Can anyone advise of any other poetry books and poets besides Christian > Bok's 'Eunoia' written in the manner of Oulipo? > > John Herbert Cunningham ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 18:34:52 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Kyle Schlesinger Subject: Re: Oulipo & Christian Bok In-Reply-To: <000601c97d85$d91abba0$8b5032e0$@net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Depends on a number of variables, but I think immediately of Craig Dworkin, Brian Kim Stefans and Darren Wershler-Henry as four (including Christian) contemporary writers who have, in various ways, elaborated on the Oulipo project in the 21st century. Kyle > From: John Cunningham > Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" > Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 12:10:18 -0600 > To: > Subject: Oulipo & Christian Bok > > Can anyone advise of any other poetry books and poets besides Christian > Bok's 'Eunoia' written in the manner of Oulipo? > > John Herbert Cunningham > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 20:47:44 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Daniel Zimmerman Subject: Re: enough to make you swear Comments: cc: Daniel Zimmerman MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=utf-8; reply-type=original Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Perhaps more disturbing: The Presidential Oath of Office prescribed by the Constitution reads: "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.” Chief Justice John Roberts flubbed it when administering the oath to Barack Obama by saying: “"That I will execute the Office of President to the United States faithfully." Roberts later administered the oath to Obama correctly. If I had written “Roberts later correctly administered the oath to Obama,” I would have emphasized the correctness of administering the oath a second time, rather than the correctness of the order of the oath’s words. In this case, word order changes the meaning. Syntactically, however, it makes no difference whether faithfully precedes execute or follows United States: both expressions mean the same thing. The real error lies in the substitution of to for of: one cannot “execute to.” Still, everyone who knows the oath understood the significance of Obama’s taking it; the confusion involved a mere slip of the tongue, not an avalanche obliterating understanding. The White House graciously maintained that Roberts performed the do-over "out of an abundance of caution." Presumably, such caution had prompted him to ask Obama, after administering the oath the first time, “So help you God?”—without waiting for the new President to volunteer the phrase himself. Whether the President’s "So help me God” represented his conviction or just a courtesy to an already embarrassed Chief Justice remains open to speculation, but seems largely irrelevant because it might involve a merely personal conviction. It might prove more worthwhile to ask whether the Founding Fathers regarded the oath as a magical incantation which the President-elect must chant precisely in order for it to transubstantiate him from an ordinary Joe into the sort of anointed planetary demigod Obama’s predecessor seems to have considered himself. Certainly Washington—who declined regal titles, and who presided over a fragile backwater among nations—would not have accorded the oath such abracadabric efficacy, even if he did say “So help me God” after taking the oath (as only Washington Irving, some 65 years latter, averred). Does the oath of office cast a spell? Must hierophant and initiate repeat its exact words in their exact order? Does the meaning of each word, then, matter at all? Suppose an imposter priest said the Mass in Latin without knowing a word of that language, but performed the ceremony precisely. Would that alone consecrate the Host? Or if an ordained pederast priest performed the Mass, would his sin, like the imposture of the bogus priest, nullify the sacramental nature of the consecration? The Church’s practice of reassigning such miscreants to other parishes where they continued to say Mass suggests otherwise. Would believers have failed to receive communion in such cases, despite the fervor of their faith? Would their faith compensate for their priests’ faithlessness? Would saying “I wed thee” rather than “I thee wed” nullify a marriage? Perhaps; perhaps not—let theologians dispute. The Constitution, however, remains a thoroughly secular document—however much various “strict constructionists” act as if they seem to believe otherwise. Precisely those people would call for the exact phrasing of the oath, yet they profess allegiance to the intent of the Founders—something not always apparent in the text of the Constitution. The applied poetics of this situation remains perplexing. ~ Daniel Zimmerman ----- Original Message ----- From: "ALDON L NIELSEN" To: Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 11:18 PM Subject: enough to make you swear > post-script: Thursday one of the dorks at Fox News suggested that Obama > might > not really be President because he didn't have his hand on a Bible when > they > had the oath do-over at the White House -- > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > "Study the fine art of coming apart." > > --Jerry W. Ward, Jr. > > Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ > > Aldon L. Nielsen > Kelly Professor of American Literature > The Pennsylvania State University > 116 Burrowes > University Park, PA 16802-6200 > > (814) 865-0091 > > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 17:01:14 -1000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Gabrielle Welford Subject: Re: Nelson's poem In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII hi gerald. the link didn't work, and when i went searching the archives, could not find the poem. any help there? i did find an abstract referring to it. best, g On Thu, 22 Jan 2009, Gerald Schwartz wrote: > Marilyn Nelson's front page poem (which is taking a lot of heat (Hey, > what does THAT say?), packs so much truth of our last eight years, as > well as all that will be told with time: > > www.courant.com/news/elections/hc-albarackpoem0120.artjan20,0,106471.story > > There's no way that this would have been read on that day in front of the Dome, > but it did make it into ink. > > Gerald S. > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 19:39:21 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: Oulipo & Christian Bok In-Reply-To: <000601c97d85$d91abba0$8b5032e0$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit too many to list, really; throw a rock... On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 10:10 AM, John Cunningham wrote: > Can anyone advise of any other poetry books and poets besides Christian > Bok's 'Eunoia' written in the manner of Oulipo? > > John Herbert Cunningham > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly@gmail.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 19:40:19 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: Call for Applications: International Writing Program (University of Iowa) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I saw this on another list. Who are the mysterious "senior writers"? -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly@gmail.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 22:11:04 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Alan Sondheim Subject: ESP-DISK I'm Playing at Zebulon this Sunday night - MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed ESP-DISK LIVE @ ZEBULON Sunday, January 25th 8 pm OKKYUNG LEE, cello NATE WOOLEY, trumpet 9 pm ALAN SONDHEIM (ESP 1048, 1082), various with: MYK FREEDMAN, steel guitar AZURE CARTER, voice 10 pm TOTEM> (ESP 4046): BRUCE EISENBEIL, guitar TOM BLANCARTE, bass ANDREW DRURY, drums Entire catalog on sale at the show First 30 people get a FREE CD with card Featuring DJ Whistle Punk ZEBULON 258 Wythe Ave., Brooklyn, NY NO COVER www.espdisk.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 05:30:09 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: AWAREing Press Subject: Re: Eyeless in Gaza In-Reply-To: <137448.33426.qm@web82608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 Nice, Stephen. Esp. the last line, wherein "Israel" could be replaced by al= most any noun pertaining to a living, sentient being squeezed in the vice o= f ire.=C2=A0 Not that anyone in this group would tweak a line of verse and claim ownersh= ip! That's like putting coins in a vending machine slot sans items and expe= cting a treat. "As poetry destroys itself in horrific anger."--is, hypothetically, still a= ttributed to...? James Beach, ed. AWAREing Press -------------- Original message from Stephen Vincent : -------------- > Can you imagine a land devastated, one without any remaining > architecture? Can you imagine such a land composed and spoken entirely = of > sentences in a language so orderly, so lyric and so radiant that its re= fugees > - though starving and otherwise defenseless - wander about (dancing, wa= lking, > loitering) without grief or resentment? =E2=80=9CThere are certain thin= gs > impossible to take away,=E2=80=9D these citizens will insist. =E2=80=9C= The > construction of poetry, its edification is not only our bread and water= . It > is our architecture.=E2=80=9D=20=20 > =C2=A0=20 > To the contrary, many among us, no matter the poetry, no matter > the sentences, the songs - as though again =E2=80=98Eyeless in Gaza=E2= =80=99 > -=C2=A0 come to nothing in wordless, appalled silence.=20=20 > =C2=A0=20 > As Israel destroys itself in horrific anger.=20=20 > =C2=A0=20 > from "Homeless Blankets - A Winter Series" on the blog, > photographs et al,=C2=A0 at:=20 > http://stephenvincent.net/blog/wp-admin/post.php?action=3Dedit&post=3D7= 04 >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es &=20 > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 19:40:51 +1100 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Pam Brown Subject: Re: Oulipo & Christian Bok MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi John, Well it's not very Bo(o)kian but ... there is always 100,000,000,000,000 Poems by Raymond Queneau Pam >Can anyone advise of any other poetry books and poets besides Christian >Bok's 'Eunoia' written in the manner of Oulipo? >John Herbert Cunningham -- ____________________________________ blog : http://thedeletions.blogspot.com website : http://pambrownbooks.blogspot.com/ associate editor : http://jacketmagazine.com/ _____________________________________ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 10:36:50 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Camille Martin Subject: Re: Oulipo & Christian Bok In-Reply-To: <000601c97d85$d91abba0$8b5032e0$@net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Check out Alphabetical Africa by Walter Abish. Camille Martin ________________________________________ From: Poetics List (UPenn, UB) [POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of = John Cunningham [johncunningham366@MTS.NET] Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 1:10 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Oulipo & Christian Bok Can anyone advise of any other poetry books and poets besides Christian Bok's 'Eunoia' written in the manner of Oulipo? John Herbert Cunningham =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines= & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 11:12:19 -0800 Reply-To: poet_in_hell@yahoo.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve russell Subject: unknown unknowns/unknown knowns/ Slavoj Zizek MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii thank you David for the Gitmo/Gaza links. Zizek offers some clarity in his essay "Rumsfeld's Unknown Known, or Iraq's Initiation Into Democratic Practice" After citing Rumsfeld's "amateur philosophizing" Zizik adds a Fourth term: "unknown knowns." "These are the disavowed beliefs, suppositions, and obscene practices we enact but don't allow ourselves to see, and which-via practices such as outsourcing-are becoming increasingly easy to ignore." ...soon, we encounter what Zizek calls the "innovative practice of sharing a dirty secret." ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 15:39:48 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: post-american writing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://thebestamericanpoetry.typepad.com/the_best_american_poetry/2009/01/the-varieties-of-postaesthetic-experience-ii-by-gabriel-gudding.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 19:41:00 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ruth Lepson Subject: new book Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all, Am happy to tell you I have a new book with blazeVOX.org both as an ebook and a POD book. It=B9s called I Went Looking for You and should be available as soon as tonight. If you=B9re in the Boston area, please join me for a book party hosted by The Grolier Poetry Book Shop & held at The Democracy Center, 45 Mt. Auburn St., Cambridge, near Bow & Dewolf Sts. in Harvard Sq., on Monday, Feb. 16 from 2 to 5. The stellar jazz musicians I perform with will be playing and snacks will be provided. Since that is Presidents=B9 Day, if you are so inclined, join us in a toast t= o our first global president. Sincerely, Ruth Lepson =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 21:25:09 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Doug Holder Subject: From the Pais of New England: Interviews with Poets and Writers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" =46rom the Paris of New England: Interviews with Poets and Writers ( wit= h Doug=20 Holder)=20 Interviews with Pagan Kennedy, Tom Perrotta, Claire Messud, Steve Almon= d,=20 Louisa Solano, Robert Creeley, and many more! Due out from the Ibbetson=20= Street Press Feb. 2009 http://ibbetsonpress.com A collection of my interviews that for the most part appeared in The Some= rville=20 News will be out from the Ibbetson Street Press next month. ( Feb. 2009).= =20 Caitlin Jackson, an intern from the Connecticut College, edited the colle= ction,=20 and Steve Glines designed it. This will be Volume 1 ... I plan to to do a= second=20 volume in late 2009...if the good lord is willing and the creek don't ris= e... --Doug Holder =20 =20 =46rom the introduction by Mike Basinski, PhD Curator of the Rare Book a= nd=20 Poetry Collection at University of Buffalo, NY. =20 Welcome to the Neighborhood=20 Within the realm of the poem are communities in which constellatio= ns of=20 poets reside with their poems, and their journeys and influences, books,=20= poetics and colleagues, and where they were born and where they work, and= =20 the color of their dogs, cats and washing machines. Of course, individual= poets=20 have individual lives and spheres. However, in order for their poetry to=20= expansively thrive and develop, there must be a place for them to do so.=20= There has to be a place for poets to be poets, which is to say people. I = liken=20 these locals to networks of waterways where the wandering flocks gather t= o=20 honk in delight or where the frogs congregate to engage their necessary=20= singing. Without these vast neighborhoods of mind there would be no poetr= y.=20 For communities of creativity to form and function, we, the poets, need t= o=20 know who we are. This book is the imagination's welcome wagon. Hello. Below is the title and the list of interviews.... =46rom the Paris of New England: Interviews with Poets and Writers With Doug Holder Special Thanks To: Donald and Jamie Norton, Biil Tauro (The Somerville News) Wendy Blom=20 (Somerville Community Access TV), Steve Gilnes (ISCS Press), Caitlin Jack= son,=20 Mike Basinki (Buffalo University Libraries). Table of Contents =20 Eva Salzman=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85= =85=85=85=857 Mike Basinski=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85= =85=85=85=85...10 Errol Uys=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85= =85=85=85=85.13 Lan Samantha Chang=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85= =85=85..16 Louisa Solano=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85= =85=85=85=85..18 Miriam Levine=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85= =85=85=85=85.20 Mark Doty=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85= =85=85=85...23 Claire Messud=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85= =85=85=85=85..28 Lisa Beatman=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85= =85=85=85=8530 Martha Collins=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85= =85=85=85=85..32 Dick Lourie=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85= =85=85=85=8535 Robert Creeley=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85= =85=85=85=85=8538 Afaa Michael Weaver=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85= =85=85=85=8540 Jack Powers=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85= =85=85=85...42 Ed Sanders=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85= =85=85=85=85..45 Tom Perrotta=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85= =85=85=85=8548 Diana Der-Hovanessian=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85= =85=85=8550 Luke Salisbury=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85= =85=85=85=85=8552 Sarah Hannah=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85= =85=85=85=8555 Hugh Fox=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85= =85=85=85=85...57 Lo Galluccio=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85= =85=85=85=8560 Timothy Gager=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85= =85=85=85=85.63 Gloria Mindock=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85= =85=8566 Marc Widershien=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85= =85=8567 Deborah M. Priestly=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85= =85=85=8571 Steve Almond=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85= =85=85.73 Pagan Kennedy Robert K.Johnson Harris Gardner=20 Advertise with the Boston Area Small Press and Poetry Scene!=20=20 http://dougholder.blogspot.com=20 Doug Holder's website http://authorsden.com/douglasholder=20 Ibbetson Street Press http://ibbetsonpress.com=20 Ibbetson Street Press Online Bookstore http://www.lulu.com/ibbetsonpress= =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 10:56:57 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ken Chen Subject: AAWW - Lunar New Year countdown party TONIGHT! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Asian American Writers' Workshop Sunday, January 25, 9PM-12AM 1st Annual Lunar New Years Countdown at our redesigned space! Come to our 1st Annual Lunar New Year Countdown, and hear your favorite writers read and share your own work (or just your favorite thing you've read lately). You'll get a chance to check out the new-and-improved Workshop's space--recently redecorated thanks to Parsons The New School of Design, Design Within Reach Annex, and Goil Amornvivat, the star of Bravo's Top Design and TLC's Trading Spaces. Goil will introduce thenew space to kick off the night. Featuring Mei-Mei Berssenbrugge, Lisa Chen, Dustin Chinn, Annie Choi, Alvin Eng, Rigoberto Gonzalez, Nathalie Handal, Jennifer Hayashida, Cathy Park Hong, Wendy Lee, Ed Lin, Timothy Liu, Taij Kumarie Moteelall, Taiyo Na, Ed Park, Thad Rutkowski, Kelly Zen-Yie Tsai, Elijah Wong, Monica Youn & many more. Think of this less like a reading than a big old-fashioned party. We'll have free Singha beer beer and dumplings. Just drop in when it works for you. @ The Workshop 16 West 32nd Street (btwn. Broadway & 5th Avenue) 10th Floor New York City www.aaww.org $10 general/$5 members ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 14:33:32 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: CA Conrad Subject: Ish Klein's AMAZING first book! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ish Klein's AMAZING first book of poems is NOW AVAILABLE! /\\///\\\\/////\\\\\\///////\\\\\\\\ Her book is called UNION! and can be seen here: http://unionbook.blogspot.com/ This link has some amazing video of Ish reading that you won't want to miss! CAConrad PhillySound: new poetry http://PhillySound.blogspot.com THE BOOK OF FRANK by CAConrad http://CAConrad.blogspot.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 16:01:55 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: from Aryanil Mukherjee: Telegraph India Article On Non-mainstream Experimental Writers In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Aryanil Mukherjee Today's Telegraph=2C India carries an interesting=20 article on how experimental writers can find publishers to suit their=20 needs. =20 The article covers=2C among other books=2C late night=20 correspondence & chaturangik/SQUARES - my recent book of collaborative=20 poetry with Pat Clifford. http://www.telegraphindia.com/1090124/jsp/personaltt/story_10430774.jsp _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live=99 Hotmail=AE=85more than just e-mail.=20 http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_h= owitworks_012009= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 15:08:59 -0800 Reply-To: michael_tod_edgerton@yahoo.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Michael Tod Edgerton Subject: VOX Presents Jen Tynes, Caroline Noble Whitbeck, and Michael Tod Edgerton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The VOX Reading Series at the University of Georgia is pleased to present a= n evening of poetry with Jen Tynes, Caroline Noble Whitbeck, and Michael To= d Edgerton. 8pm Mon Feb 2, 2009 at Cine, 234 W. Hancock Ave., Athens, GA http://athensc= ine.com/location.php=A0 If you'll be=A0in the Athens/Atlanta area, please consider coming! Jen Tynes is the author of the books and chapbooks,=A0Heron/Girlfriend (Coc= onut Books, 2008), See Also Electric Light (Dancing Girl Press, 2007), The = Ohio System (with Erika Howsare, Octopus Books, 2006), and The End of Rude = Handles (Red Morning Press, 2005). She edits horeseless press and horseless= review. =A0 Caroline Noble Whitbeck is the author of Our Classical Heritage: A Homing D= evice (chosen by Arielle Greenberg for the 2006 Switchback Books Gatewood P= rize). Her poems have appeared in Cab/Net, Word For/Word, Elimae, Lumina, a= nd elsewhere. Michael Tod Edgerton's poems have won the Boston Review and Five Fingers Re= view contests and have appeared in such other journals as Chelsea, Denver Q= uarterly, New American Writing, New Orleans Review, and Skanky Possum.=20 The VOX Reading Series is sponsored by the University of Georgia Creative W= riting Program. UGA CWP offers degree programs leading to the MFA and PhD. = For more information, please visit http://www.english.uga.edu/creative/. =A0 Check out our Facebook page for a listing of all upcoming readings. Thanks, Lara Glenum, Donna Stonecipher, and Michael Tod Edgerton Curators, VOX Reading Series =A0=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 20:46:12 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ryan Daley Subject: Reading This Tuesday at Cornelia Street Cafe! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Graduate Reading Night at Cornelia Street Caf=E9 Please join us on Tuesday, January 27th to hear: *Ryan Daley=97Brown University*** *Todd Dillard=97Sarah Lawrence College* *Austin LaGrone=97New York University* *Eleanor Paynter=97Sarah Lawrence College* 6:00 pm, $7 gets you one free drink The Graduate Poetry Series, one of New York's longest-running, is held on the fourth Tuesday of every month. It was established to give students fro= m NYC's graduate writing programs an opportunity to read their poetry in a safe, intimate and supportive environment. If you are interested in participating, please submit a cover letter with contact information, name of your school/current semester and 5-7 pages of poetry electronically to corneliastseries@gmail.com . *Cornelia Street** Caf=E9* 29 Cornelia Street New York NY 10014 (212) 989-9319 *www.corneliastreetcafe.com * =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 21:04:49 -0800 Reply-To: amyhappens@yahoo.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: amy king Subject: The Stain of Poetry: Berkson, Cruz, Fagan, Fortin, Pecqueur, and Rasmovicz! Comments: To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Friends, =A0 Below please find the full calendar of the Stain of Poetry readings this spring.=A0 We hope to see you this Friday, January 30th @ 7 p.m.! =A0 Great big cheers, =A0 Ana + Amy =A0 =A0 ***=A0 Stain of Poetry -- A Reading Series/Spring 2009=A0 *** http://stainofpoetry.wordpress.com =A0 =A0 January 30 Bill Berkson, Cindy Cruz, Aaron Fagan, Jennifer Fortin, Jean-Paul Pecqueur, Bill Rasmovicz =A0 February 27 Jason Gray, Tony Mancus, Deb Poe, Ric Royer, Mario Susko, Jessica Reed =A0 March 27 Joel Chace, Elena Georgiou, Stuart Greenhouse, Cindy King, Christian Peet, Brett Price =A0 April 24 Jennifer Burch, Heather Green, Chris Hosea, Sueyeun Juliette Lee, Daniel Lin, Barry Schwabsky =A0 May 29 C. S. Carrier, Jennifer Firestone, Erica Kaufman, Matthew Klane, Maya Pindyck, Laura Sims =A0 Hosted by Amy King and Ana Bo=BEi=E8evi=E6 =A0 http://stainofpoetry.wordpress.com stain bar 766 grand street brooklyn, ny 11211 (L train to Grand Street, 1 block west) =A0 _______ Amy's Alias http://amyking.org/=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 00:09:49 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Kristin Dykstra Subject: Mandorla reading - Chicago, 2/13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You are invited to attend a reading in Chicago organized by _Mandorla: New Writing from the Americas / Nueva escritura de las Am=E9ricas_ Friday, 13 February Doors open at 8:30pm / Reading starts at 9 Free and open to the public Chicago Cultural Center, 5th Floor Millennium Park Room (78 E. Washington Street, by Michigan Ave) Hosted by Kristin Dykstra & Roberto Tejada (emcee) *Featured Readers* Rosa Alcal=E1, Ray Bianchi, Susan Briante, Forrest Gander, Carmen Gim=E9nez Smith, Kent Johnson, Achy Obejas, Peter Ramos, & Rodrigo Toscano. General information & a link to the Cultural Center's own website are posted at =20 http://my.ilstu.edu/~kadykst/html/editorial/awp2008mandorlareading.htm For more about Mandorla, please see our site at www.litline.org/Mandorla --=20 Kristin Dykstra www.ilstu.edu/~kadykst -------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Illinois State University Webmail. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 12:39:05 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Les Mots Subject: Re: Oulipo & Christian Bok In-Reply-To: <000601c97d85$d91abba0$8b5032e0$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A good starting point is *The Oulipo Compendium*, published by MAKENOWPRESS: http://www.makenow.org/books.htm Another great book of poetry in the vein of "Eunoia" is *Sleeping with the Dictionary*, by Harryette Mullen. Good luck! Brandon Barr On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 1:10 PM, John Cunningham wrote: > Can anyone advise of any other poetry books and poets besides Christian > Bok's 'Eunoia' written in the manner of Oulipo? > > John Herbert Cunningham > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 20:34:28 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Globish Comments: To: Theory and Writing Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) New lingua franca upsets French Friday, 23 January 2009 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/7844192.stm Monsieur Nerriere is a retired French businessman who one day in the course of his work made a fascinating observation. In a meeting with colleagues from around the world, including an Englishman, a Korean and a Brazilian, he noticed that he and the other non-native English speakers were communicating in a form of English that was completely comprehensible to them, but which left the Englishman nonplussed. He, Jean-Paul Nerriere, could talk to the Korean and the Brazilian in this neo-language, and they could understand each other perfectly. But the Englishman was left out because his language was too subtle, too full of meaning that could not be grasped by the others. In other words, Monsieur Nerriere concluded, a new form of English is developing around the world, used by people for whom it is their second language. It may not be the most beautiful of tongues, but in this day and age he says it is indispensible. He calls the language Globish and urges everyone - above all the French - to learn it tout de suite. In his book Don't Speak English, Parlez Globish, Monsieur Nerriere sets out the rules. Globish has only 1,500 words and users must avoid humour, metaphor, abbreviation and anything else that can cause cross-cultural confusion. They must speak slowly and in short sentences. Funnily enough, he holds up the late Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat as an excellent exponent. Many in France consider Monsieur Nerriere a traitor for promoting the dreaded Anglais, but he insists he is not. He says the French have to recognise that the language war is lost. "We're just urinating on the ashes of the fire," he says. We should look on Globish not as a triumphant cultural vehicle for les Anglo- Saxons, but as a tool, he says: essential but purely utilitarian. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 00:30:50 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Peter Ciccariello Subject: Sorry - broken link -------I want to dissect your language, otherwise MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I want to dissect your language, otherwise -Peter Ciccariello http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 20:48:54 -1000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Gabrielle Welford Subject: Re: unknown unknowns/unknown knowns/ Slavoj Zizek Comments: To: steve russell In-Reply-To: <363546.26131.qm@web52408.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII an interesting jungian essay on this not allowing ourselves to see is "silenced knowings" by Helene Shulman Lorenz and Mary Watkins. best, g On Sat, 24 Jan 2009, steve russell wrote: > thank you David for the Gitmo/Gaza links. > > Zizek offers some clarity in his essay "Rumsfeld's Unknown Known, or > Iraq's Initiation Into Democratic Practice" > > After citing Rumsfeld's "amateur philosophizing" Zizik adds a Fourth > term: "unknown knowns." > > "These are the disavowed beliefs, suppositions, and obscene practices we > enact but don't allow ourselves to see, and which-via practices such as > outsourcing-are becoming increasingly easy to ignore." > > ...soon, we encounter what Zizek calls the "innovative practice of > sharing a dirty secret." > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > Gabrielle Welford, Ph.D. (support "Noho Hewa: The Wrongful Occupation of Hawai'i" by going to www.nohohewa.com and clicking on "donate") blog: www.greenwom.blogspot.com books: _Too Many Deaths: Decolonizing Western Academic Research on Indigenous Cultures_ http://www.theguildofwriters.com/books/shop.php?action=full&id=317 _Dora_ http://www.theguildofwriters.com/books/shop.php?action=full&id=378 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.412 / Virus Database: 268.18.4/705 - Release Date: 2/27/2007 ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 09:24:22 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Margaret Konkol Subject: S M A L L P R E S S in the A R C H I V E Talk Series BUFFALO N. Y. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -------- Please join us today, this Monday, January 26th @ 2:30 p.m. for a talk by Ben Bedard: "Germination: A Transatlantic Genealogy of the Little Magazine" Ben Lyle Bedard grew up in Maine, and studied creative writing, first at the University of Maine at Farmington where he served as acting director of the cooperative poetry press, Alice James Books, and then at Mills College in Oakland, California where he received his MFA. He is currently working on his dissertation on the material representation of modern poetry at the University of Buffalo. His poetry has appeared in *BlazeVOX, fhole, Damn the Caesars*, *Yellow Edenwald Field, **ArtVoice* and *P-Queue*. His material adaptation of the cuneiform tablets of the Ugaritic epic KRT appeared in the Fall/Winter 2005 issue of *Ninth Letter*. His reviews of poetry have appeared in *ArtVoice*, *Jacket*, and *The Danforth Review*. His first chapbook, published by Punch Press in 2008, is *Implicit Lyrics*. ******** Small Press in the Archive Lecture Series dedicates itself to the study of poetry outside the traditional literary historical plot. The lectures in this series draw on materials in The Poetry Collection, at SUNY Buffalo in order to explore community/discourse formations, the status of ephemera and the making of genre, the conditions of literary production, transatlantic cross-pollinations in and between specific magazines, the careers of poets, the role of book art, and how the little magazine functions in the making of the avant-garde. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 09:45:58 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Spineless Books Subject: Re: Oulipo & Christian Bok Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain Spineless Books offers 2002: A Palindrome Story in 2002 Words, by Nick Mo= ntfort and=20 William Gillespie; Drawn Inward, by Mike Maguire; Table of Forms, by Domi= nique=20 Fitzpatrick-O'Dinn; here/gone, by Karen Green. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 08:44:03 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: Oulipo & Christian Bok In-Reply-To: <9475cb160901250939k4f59142bodca7535ddc28baa7@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit elaborating, since the Mayer and Mayer / Bernstein exercises are so similar to OuLiPiian algorhythms (and many of them are), that more than Lee Ann Brown's Polyverse, most any Poetry Project workshop students from the 80s are OuLiPo-influenced Goldsmith sez at Drunken Boat he considers OuLiPo to have been a "toolbox" -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly@gmail.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 10:52:20 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Michael Kelleher Subject: Literary Buffalo Newsletter 01.28.09-02.01.09 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII LITERARY BUFFALO 01.26.09-02.01.09 EVENTS THIS WEEK Visit the Literary Buffalo calendar at www.justbuffalo.org for more detaile= d info on these events. All events free and open to the pubic unless other= wise noted. 01.28.09 Rooftop Poetry Club Baby, It's Cold Outside: A Winter-Themed Open Mic Wednesday, January 28, 4:30 PM Bring your winter themed poems. Hot chocolate will be served. E. H. Butler Library International Students Reading Area, 3rd Floor, SE Quadrant. Buffalo State College =7C 1300 Elmwood Avenue Talking Leaves...Books N'tare Ali Gault Book release: Sun Will Rise: Memoir of an Urban Family Wednesday, January 28, 7:00 PM Talking Leaves...Books, 3158 Main St. 02.01.09 Poetry at the Burchfield-Penney Lisa Forrest, Peter Grieco, Charles Bachman Poetry Reading Sunday, February 1, 2 p.m. Burchfield-Penney Art Center, 1300 Elmwood Ave ___________________________________________________________________________ BABEL ISABEL ALLENDE READING ON APRIL 17 MOVED TO KLEINHANS MUSIC HALL=21 INDIVIDUAL TICKETS ARE ON SALE NOW=21 =24100 PATRON LEVEL (Includes reserved seating area tickets plus admission = to pre-event reception with Isabel Allende at Henry's restaurant in Kleinha= ns) =2430 GENERAL ADMISSION (Includes general admission seating to event) Visit www.justbuffalo.org or call 832.5400 to order yours now. SPECIAL RATES (PHONE ORDERS ONLY) =2425 GROUP RATE (per ticket for orders of three or more; must order at the= same time) =2420 CURRENT SUBSCRIBER RATE (current subscribers can purchase as many tic= kets as they like for this special rate) =2410 CLASSROOM RATE (teachers can purchase groups of ten or more tickets f= or students for this low student rate) CALL 832.5400 TO ORDER IN-PERSON ONLY RATE (can be purchased at Just Buffalo or at the event only) =2410 STUDENT INDIVIDUAL RATE (for students with current, valid student I.D= =2E) ___________________________________________________________________________ FIRST ANNUAL JUST BUFFALO MEMBER POETRY READING AND CONTEST DEADLINE FEBRUA= RY 14: CLICK THE FOLLOWING LINK FOR GUIDELINES AND DETAILS: http://www.justbuffalo.org/index.php?task=3Dview&id=3D60&show=3D252 ___________________________________________________________________________ JUST BUFFALO MEMBER WRITER CRITIQUE GROUP http://www.justbuffalo.org/docs/Writer_Critique_Group.pdf ___________________________________________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE If you would like to unsubscribe from this list, just say so and you will i= mmediately be removed. _______________________________ Michael Kelleher Artistic Director Just Buffalo Literary Center Market Arcade 617 Main St., Ste. 202A Buffalo, NY 14203 716.832.5400 716.270.0184 (fax) www.justbuffalo.org mjk=40justbuffalo.org =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 09:16:21 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 23 Jan 2009 to 25 Jan 2009 (#2009-21) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I thought someone would reply to Frank Rich's NYT column titled, "No Time for Poetry." Although I agree with most of what Mr. Rich says, the title he chose, and its premise, continues the misnomer among most Americans that poetry is about "flowery language" not fit for serious conversation. It's an old perception, especially in the US, and obviously continues to this day. Obama's speech aside, while first-rate musicians were chosen, a minor poet was chosen to perform for that momentous occasion. There are so many first-rate poets who could have been chosen! It seems that poetry is so little thought of that the decision was political, not aesthetic. And nothing says this better that the title of Frank Rich's column. Best, Joel Joel Weishaus Research Faculty Department of English Portland State University Portland, OR http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282 ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 09:37:41 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Paul Nelson Subject: Jose Kozer in the NW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Northwest SPokenword LAB along with the Richard Hugo House, Poets & Wri= ters, the Seattle Office of Arts and Cultural Affairs ,=0ACasa de Escritore= s (House of Writers) and the Washington Poets Association, is=0Aproud to an= nounce a poetry workshop with Cuban expatriate poet Jos=E9 Kozer, 1-5P on S= unday, February 1, 2009, at the Richard=0AHugo House, 1634 11th Avenue, in = Seattle. =0A =0ARegistration for the workshop is=0A$100, and can be done on= -line at: http://www.splab.org. Some scholarships are available. For more i= nformation, call=0A253.735.6328. Participants are to send no more than 2 pa= ges of poetry,=0Apreferably when registering. Kozer is the feature at=0A7PM= along with Red Sky=92s regular open mic. Signup is 6:30.=0A =0AOther event= s:=0A =0ASpanish workshop Tuesday, February=0A3, from 7-10PM, in Seattle sp= onsored by Casa de Escritores. Suggested=0Adonation $50. This event is spon= sored by 4Culture, the City of Seattle Neighborhood Programs, and House of= =0AWriters. =0ASchool workshops/lectures in Mt. Vernon, Friday, February 6,= sponsored=0Aby the Skagit River Poetry Festival. A reading will happen wit= h Kurtis Lamkin in the Mount Vernon High School=0AAuditorium from 7-9PM.=0A= =0ADoe=0ABay workshop and reading on Orcas Island on Saturday,=0AFebruary = 7, during a weekend featuring Cuban pescatarian cuisine in the cafe=0Aand a= 1-5PM workshop and 7PM reading, co-sponsored by the Orcas Island Writer's = Festival and the Skagit River Poetry Festival. For reservations, contact Do= e Bay at 360.376.2291 or http://www.DoeBay.com. =0A =0AReading/Lecture, Mon= day, February 9=0A- 4:00PM-6:00PM at the LaRoux Room, Seattle University St= udent Center Book=0Asigning and reception to follow. Sam Green reads the wo= rk in English. =0A =0AJose's=0Avisit to the NW is sponsored by Poets &=0AWr= iters. =0ASeattleevents are co-sponsored by the Seattle Office of Arts and = Cultural Affairs. =0A =0AWorkshop limited to 20 participants. The participa= nt will present a poem, maximum=0Atwo pages, to be read out loud by partici= pant and then discussed by the entire=0Agroup. Discussion should center on = technical issues=0Arather than value judgements on texts, and even though a= t times these are=0Athings difficult to separate, the idea is that as a gro= up we would try to point=0Aout the elements of the text that do not work pr= operly, its reasons, rather=0Athan indicating judgment on text.=0A =0AJos= =E9 Kozer (b. Havana,=0A1940) is the son of parents who migrated to Cuba fr= om Poland and Czechoslovakia in the 1920s, and the grandson of=0Aa founder = of Adath Israel, Cuba=92s=0Afirst Ashkenazi synagogue. He left Cuba in 1960= , received a BA from NYU in 1965, and taught for many years at Queens Colle= ge of the City University of New York, retiring as a full professor in 1997= .=0AAuthor of over 15 collections of verse. His most recent, No buscanrefle= jarse(2002), a selection=0Afrom past volumes, is the first poetry collectio= n by a living Cuban exile to be=0Apublished in Havana. Stet, a comprehensiv= e selection of poems, appeared in a bilingual edition with translations by = Mark Weiss from Junction=0APress in 2006. =0A =0AFuture Red Sky Reunions: A= tribute=0Ato the late Irene Drennan, with Esther Helfgott, Priscilla Long,= Denise=0ACalvetti-Michaels, Anne Sweet and Diane Westergaard, on March 1 a= nd=0APortland poets on April 5, including Dan Raphael and David Abel.=0A = =0AConversation with Nicholas=0AMansito. Four= poems=0Atranslated by Mark Weiss =0A Paul E. Nelson =0A=0AGlobal Voices Ra= dio=0ASPLAB!=0AAmerican Sentences=0AOrganic Poetry=0APoetry Postcard Blog= =0A=0AIlalqo, WA 253.735.6328 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 12:48:00 -0500 Reply-To: az421@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Rob McLennan Subject: THE FIFTH ISSUE OF OTTAWATER IS HERE! The fifth issue features work by various residents current and former, including: Cameron Anstee, Michael Blouin, Stephen Brockwell, Monique Desnoyers, Amanda Earl, Jesse Ferguson, Warren Dean Fulton, Adrienne Ho, Sean Johnston, Ben Ladouceur, Lainna Lane, Marcus McCann, rob mclennan, Christine McNair, Colin Morton, Jennifer Mulligan, Wanda O'Connor, Pearl Pirie, K.I. Press, Roland Prevost, Monty Reid, Shane Rhodes, Suzannah Showler, Sandra Ridley, Mike Spry, Gillian Wallace, Zack Wells, Rob Winger and Rachel Zolf, as well as an interview with poet Nina Berkhout, and artwork by Dan Martelock, Beaston, Danny Hussey, Don Smith, Gail Bourgeois, Marc Adornato, Pedro Isztin, Stefan Grambart, Stefan Thompson and Steve Taylor. The launch party for the fifth issue will be happening Thursday, January 29th, 2008 at the Ottawa Art Gallery (doors 7pm/readings 7:30) in the Arts Court Building, 2 Daly Avenue (at Nicholas), lovingly hosted by rob mclennan. ottawater would like to thank designer Tanya Sprowl, Emily Falvey from the Ottawa Art Gallery, the ottawa international writers festival, and Randy Woods at non-linear creations for their continuing support. Founded to celebrate the 150th anniversary of the City of Ottawa, Canada's glorious capital city, "ottawater," and its chemical formula/logo "O2(H2O)," is a poetry annual produced exclusively on-line, in both readable and printable pdf formats, and found at (http://www.ottawater.com). An anthology focusing on Ottawa poets and poetics, its first issue appeared in January 2005, 150 years after old Bytown became the City of Ottawa. Long seen only as a town still echoing its origins as a backwater Victorian lumber town, and made up of bureaucrats and technocrats, and a more conservative poetics, "ottawater," edited by Ottawa-born writer, editor and publisher rob mclennan, exists to remind readers of what work is happening, and has been happening for years, despite government types insisting on repeating that the arts in Ottawa is about to begin. We say instead: we have always been here -- writer/editor/publisher ...STANZAS mag, above/ground press & Chaudiere Books (www.chaudierebooks.com) ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...13th poetry coll'n - The Ottawa City Project ...novel - white www.abovegroundpress.blogspot.com * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 13:27:42 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Globish In-Reply-To: <77AC1385-3AAE-4186-A935-09D53F2885FF@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We can look at this newly developing condition in a different way, not as creating a more primitive language 9only 1500 words and short sentences, etc.); but a language with its own emphases, which in time will create its own complexities. Ciao, Murat On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 9:34 PM, mIEKAL aND wrote: > New lingua franca upsets French > Friday, 23 January 2009 > > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/7844192.stm > > > Monsieur Nerriere is a retired French businessman who one day in the course > of his work made a fascinating observation. > > In a meeting with colleagues from around the world, including an > Englishman, a Korean and a Brazilian, he noticed that he and the other > non-native English speakers were communicating in a form of English that was > completely comprehensible to them, but which left the Englishman nonplussed. > > He, Jean-Paul Nerriere, could talk to the Korean and the Brazilian in this > neo-language, and they could understand each other perfectly. > > But the Englishman was left out because his language was too subtle, too > full of meaning that could not be grasped by the others. > > In other words, Monsieur Nerriere concluded, a new form of English is > developing around the world, used by people for whom it is their second > language. > > It may not be the most beautiful of tongues, but in this day and age he > says it is indispensible. He calls the language Globish and urges everyone - > above all the French - to learn it tout de suite. > > In his book Don't Speak English, Parlez Globish, Monsieur Nerriere sets out > the rules. > > Globish has only 1,500 words and users must avoid humour, metaphor, > abbreviation and anything else that can cause cross-cultural confusion. > > They must speak slowly and in short sentences. Funnily enough, he holds up > the late Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat as an excellent exponent. > > Many in France consider Monsieur Nerriere a traitor for promoting the > dreaded Anglais, but he insists he is not. > > He says the French have to recognise that the language war is lost. > > "We're just urinating on the ashes of the fire," he says. We should look on > Globish not as a triumphant cultural vehicle for les Anglo-Saxons, but as a > tool, he says: essential but purely utilitarian. > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 13:30:19 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: Oulipo & Christian Bok In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit to me, the most interesting and influential aspects of the oulipo are not particular constraints/forms, nor particular works written in those forms, but aspects at a higher level. the oulipo grew out of a synthesis of bourbaki/mathematics/logic and literature. bourbaki was a collective of mathematicians who redefined the writing of mathematics. a very writerly group in that sense. their books influenced a generation of mathematicians who had to learn how to present their work in bourbaki-like style for the journals. bourbaki stressed the importance of writing to mathematics, brought it to a new level of concern in mathematics, as opposed to the naive approach where 'a proof is a proof independent of how it is presented'. for instance, bourbaki eschewed reliance on pictures. that's a bit much, to me--pictures are so useful in understanding math, even when the writing is good--but at the time I suppose it was an important thing to do, to develop writing. I'm a visual kind of a guy but I value good writing, also. Another strong influence of Bourbaki on the Oulipo was the Bourbaki concern with the axiomatic method, the development of math from first principles. When you define a set of axioms, one may say one is defining a form. One may find models that satisfy those axioms. For instance, spherical geometry satisfies a certain set of non-euclidean axioms. Spherical geometry satisfies the form of those axioms. Spherical geometry is an instantiation of the class which is the set of non-Euclidean axioms. Spherical geometry is the object. The axioms are the class, the form. Similarly, the constraint is the class, the form. The particular work written to the constraint is the object, the instantiation of the class/form. The computer arose from the turing machine. There would have been computers without the Turing machine, but the Turing machine provides a mathematical framework for the theory of computation that aides the development of the computer like any really strong theory aides engineering. The Turing machine arose from the development of the foundations of mathematics. From the efforts of Leibniz, Frege, Boole, Cantor, Hilbert, Godel, Turing, and many others. As discussed in Martin Davis's brilliant book 'Engines of Logic' which I hope you finally get around to reading. Now, it is that program, that development of the foundations of mathematics, which is the inspiration of Bourbaki. And so, in a sense, it is that same program which is a strong influence on the Oulipo. And that program--again, as discussed by Martin Davis--is very much involved--you could even say is intensely engaged with--language. The development of the foundations of mathematics and the computer are intensely engaged in the development of the language of symbolic language and meditation on the general properties of language. So that we begin to see a 'through-line' from Leibniz to contemporary digital poetry. With the development of the foundations of mathematics, mathematics begins to look into language itself as an object of study rather like particles are an object of study in physics, and so there begin to arise syntheses of mathematics and poetry that further that intense engagement with language. Drawing together thought and feeling, the left and the right, the analytic and the associative, the representation and the abstraction. ja http://vispo.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 12:05:53 -1000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Gabrielle Welford Subject: Re: Globish In-Reply-To: <77AC1385-3AAE-4186-A935-09D53F2885FF@gmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII this is great, miekal! i've been looking at this for quite a while, because the "war" over pidgin in hawai'i has been so prominent (while i lived there, i met a businesswoman who said proudly that her company had not hired some young people because, though their english was good in the interviews, they spoke pidgin at lunch) and because i've been working for a grad student (now doctor) in linguistics from korea who's been looking a this same phenomenon. rather than expecting exact american or english english with the "right" accent, what's developing is a focus on being understood across cultures. it's really fascinating and exciting to me, who grew up in many different countries, surrounded by different languages. lucky me... g Gabrielle Welford, Ph.D. (support "Noho Hewa: The Wrongful Occupation of Hawai'i" by going to www.nohohewa.com and clicking on "donate") blog: www.greenwom.blogspot.com books: _Too Many Deaths: Decolonizing Western Academic Research on Indigenous Cultures_ http://www.theguildofwriters.com/books/shop.php?action=full&id=317 _Dora_ http://www.theguildofwriters.com/books/shop.php?action=full&id=378 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.412 / Virus Database: 268.18.4/705 - Release Date: 2/27/2007 On Sun, 25 Jan 2009, mIEKAL aND wrote: > New lingua franca upsets French > Friday, 23 January 2009 > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/7844192.stm > > > Monsieur Nerriere is a retired French businessman who one day in the > course of his work made a fascinating observation. > > In a meeting with colleagues from around the world, including an > Englishman, a Korean and a Brazilian, he noticed that he and the other > non-native English speakers were communicating in a form of English > that was completely comprehensible to them, but which left the > Englishman nonplussed. > > He, Jean-Paul Nerriere, could talk to the Korean and the Brazilian in > this neo-language, and they could understand each other perfectly. > > But the Englishman was left out because his language was too subtle, > too full of meaning that could not be grasped by the others. > > In other words, Monsieur Nerriere concluded, a new form of English is > developing around the world, used by people for whom it is their > second language. > > It may not be the most beautiful of tongues, but in this day and age > he says it is indispensible. He calls the language Globish and urges > everyone - above all the French - to learn it tout de suite. > > In his book Don't Speak English, Parlez Globish, Monsieur Nerriere > sets out the rules. > > Globish has only 1,500 words and users must avoid humour, metaphor, > abbreviation and anything else that can cause cross-cultural confusion. > > They must speak slowly and in short sentences. Funnily enough, he > holds up the late Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat as an excellent > exponent. > > Many in France consider Monsieur Nerriere a traitor for promoting the > dreaded Anglais, but he insists he is not. > > He says the French have to recognise that the language war is lost. > > "We're just urinating on the ashes of the fire," he says. We should > look on Globish not as a triumphant cultural vehicle for les Anglo- > Saxons, but as a tool, he says: essential but purely utilitarian. > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 14:19:23 -0800 Reply-To: atieger@yahoo.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: aaron tieger Subject: ANXIETY CHANT by Aaron Tieger MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Skysill, a new UK press dedicated to promoting innovative poetry, is pleased to announce the publication of Aaron Tieger's ANXIETY CHANT. Published in an edition of 200 copies, ANXIETY CHANT is available for =A34 / $6 (including postage). Payment can be made via PayPal at http://skysillpress.blogspot.com/, or by contacting the editor at skysillpressATgmail.com. A sample poem: 7/30/04 Caffeine leaves system leaving me empty as living rooms across this town and others empty of boxes and lives align in yellow trucks and yellow light coats the empty room and the last few boxes sit empty in the last light of a living room. * Thanks for your support. Sam Ward Editor, Skysill Press=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 01:56:05 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: twshaner@COMCAST.NET Subject: Laynie Browne & Endi Hartigan Reading in Eugene MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This Saturday (1/31) at DIVA (Downtown Innitiative for the Visual Arts) A New Reading Series hosts poets Laynie Browne and Endi Hartigan Saturday, January 31 7:30 PM DIVA 110 W. Broadway Eugene, Oregon 541-344-3482 Laynie Browne is the recipient of the 2007 National Poetry Series award and the author of five full-length poetry collections. Most recent are Drawing of a Swan Before Memory (2005, University of Georgia Press, winner of the Contemporary Poetry Series), and Mermaid's Purse (Spuytenduyvil, 2005). Forthcoming is Original Presence, from Shivistan Books (2006). Her other collections are Pollen Memory (2003, Tender Buttons), The Agency of Wind (Avec Books, 1999), and Rebecca Letters (Kelsey Street, 1996). She is also the author of Acts of Levitation, a novel (2002, Spuytenduyvil). Endi Hartigan's work has appeared in the Northwest Review, The Antioch Review, Hubbub, Caveat Lector, and other magazines. She was co-founder and editor of Spectaculum, a magazine devoted to long poems, series, and lengthy selections of poetic works. Endi Bogue Hartigan’s book, One Sun Storm, was just released from the Center for Literary Publishing, and received the 2008 Colorado Prize for Poetry judged by Martha Ronk. Upcoming readings: Feb 21: K. Silem Mohammad & Rodney Koeneke March 21: Betheny Ides & Joseph Bradshaw ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 22:22:08 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Zebulon set from last night MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Zebulon recording from last night Here's a recording of the set Myk Freedman (lap steel), Azure Carter (voice), and I (acoustic electric, tamburitza, ukulele) did last night at Zebulon. The original recording was incredibly noisy - I did what I could to sweeten it with CoolEdit. I'm quite happy with the music. In order - all accompanied by Myk - 1 - w/ acoustic electric. This is the worst recorded - string buzz is much too noticable. Fast tempo. 2 - w/ Azure, melody and voice, and tamburitza - slow then jump rhythm 3 - w/ ukulele - this needed a contact mike - I was thinking of Henry Grimes' percussion along the way. 4 - w/ acoustic electric - high-speed quotes outside potential wells. That's about it - enjoy - Alan http://www.alansondheim.org/zebulons.mp3 ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 19:38:23 -0800 Reply-To: steph484@pacbell.net Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Martin Puryear & The First 100 Days of President Obama MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "The First 100 Days of President Obama" is a new, current project on my blog, including haptic drawings & commentary, etc. The texts vary, but here is the start of yesterday's text - from "Obama: Day Five" to give a brief clue of some the range of interests:=20 This afternoon I went to a poets=A2 panel at the San Francisco Museum of Ar= t (Joinery: Poems on the occasion of Martin Puryear) . Subject: Martin Puryear, an African-American sculptor who works primarily in wood. (Go to the SFMOMA website, among others to see photographic samples of the work). The poets included:David Levi-Strauss (moderator & poet & critic), and poets, Norma Cole, Aaron Shurin, Susan Thackery, and Michael Palmer. All of whom spoke well about interpreting the work, some from the point of view of the = ways in Puryear=A2s practice of =A1joinery=A2 mirrored various aspects of the makin= g of their own poetry - in terms of collage, and/or the translation process of working or joining English to another language. Others spoke directly to the psychological experience of responding and incorporating the work in the process of both looking and ... To continue go to: http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ Stephen Vincent By the way, if you are visiting or living in San Francisco, my show, "Haptics" just opened at the Braunstein-Quay Gallery, 430 Clemintina Street, SF -=A0 3 blocks South of Market, between 5th and 6th.=A0 Samples of the work are through out the blog, as well as on the Braunstein-Quay webstite.=20 http://www.braunsteinquay.com/archive/access_vincent2008.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 20:04:10 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Globish In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed The way this story was told 10 years ago was that while English is spreading all over the world, it is a thin English, with a very small vocabulary and fewer tenses, moods and voices than that used in, say, Britain. gb On Jan 26, 2009, at 2:05 PM, Gabrielle Welford wrote: > this is great, miekal! i've been looking at this for quite a while, > because the "war" over pidgin in hawai'i has been so prominent > (while i > lived there, i met a businesswoman who said proudly that her > company had > not hired some young people because, though their english was good > in the > interviews, they spoke pidgin at lunch) and because i've been > working for > a grad student (now doctor) in linguistics from korea who's been > looking a > this same phenomenon. rather than expecting exact american or english > english with the "right" accent, what's developing is a focus on being > understood across cultures. it's really fascinating and exciting > to me, > who grew up in many different countries, surrounded by different > languages. lucky me... g > > > Gabrielle Welford, Ph.D. (support "Noho Hewa: The Wrongful > Occupation of > Hawai'i" by going to www.nohohewa.com and clicking on "donate") > blog: > www.greenwom.blogspot.com > books: > _Too Many Deaths: Decolonizing Western Academic Research on Indigenous > Cultures_ > http://www.theguildofwriters.com/books/shop.php?action=full&id=317 > _Dora_ > http://www.theguildofwriters.com/books/shop.php?action=full&id=378 > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.412 / Virus Database: 268.18.4/705 - Release Date: > 2/27/2007 > > On Sun, 25 Jan 2009, mIEKAL aND wrote: > >> New lingua franca upsets French >> Friday, 23 January 2009 >> >> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/ >> 7844192.stm >> >> >> Monsieur Nerriere is a retired French businessman who one day in the >> course of his work made a fascinating observation. >> >> In a meeting with colleagues from around the world, including an >> Englishman, a Korean and a Brazilian, he noticed that he and the >> other >> non-native English speakers were communicating in a form of English >> that was completely comprehensible to them, but which left the >> Englishman nonplussed. >> >> He, Jean-Paul Nerriere, could talk to the Korean and the Brazilian in >> this neo-language, and they could understand each other perfectly. >> >> But the Englishman was left out because his language was too subtle, >> too full of meaning that could not be grasped by the others. >> >> In other words, Monsieur Nerriere concluded, a new form of English is >> developing around the world, used by people for whom it is their >> second language. >> >> It may not be the most beautiful of tongues, but in this day and age >> he says it is indispensible. He calls the language Globish and urges >> everyone - above all the French - to learn it tout de suite. >> >> In his book Don't Speak English, Parlez Globish, Monsieur Nerriere >> sets out the rules. >> >> Globish has only 1,500 words and users must avoid humour, metaphor, >> abbreviation and anything else that can cause cross-cultural >> confusion. >> >> They must speak slowly and in short sentences. Funnily enough, he >> holds up the late Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat as an excellent >> exponent. >> >> Many in France consider Monsieur Nerriere a traitor for promoting the >> dreaded Anglais, but he insists he is not. >> >> He says the French have to recognise that the language war is lost. >> >> "We're just urinating on the ashes of the fire," he says. We should >> look on Globish not as a triumphant cultural vehicle for les Anglo- >> Saxons, but as a tool, he says: essential but purely utilitarian. >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/ >> welcome.html >> > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/ > welcome.html > George Harry Bowering Has not read Tolstoy. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 22:19:47 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: Globish In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) My partner is Romanian & English is her third language... Not that her English isn't far more sophisticated than Globish, but sometimes it feels like less words is more. ~m On Jan 26, 2009, at 4:05 PM, Gabrielle Welford wrote: > this is great, miekal! i've been looking at this for quite a while, > because the "war" over pidgin in hawai'i has been so prominent > (while i > lived there, i met a businesswoman who said proudly that her company > had > not hired some young people because, though their english was good > in the > interviews, they spoke pidgin at lunch) and because i've been > working for > a grad student (now doctor) in linguistics from korea who's been > looking a > this same phenomenon. rather than expecting exact american or english > english with the "right" accent, what's developing is a focus on being > understood across cultures. it's really fascinating and exciting to > me, > who grew up in many different countries, surrounded by different > languages. lucky me... g > > > Gabrielle Welford, Ph.D. (support "Noho Hewa: The Wrongful > Occupation of > Hawai'i" by going to www.nohohewa.com and clicking on "donate") > blog: > www.greenwom.blogspot.com > books: > _Too Many Deaths: Decolonizing Western Academic Research on Indigenous > Cultures_ > http://www.theguildofwriters.com/books/shop.php?action=full&id=317 > _Dora_ > http://www.theguildofwriters.com/books/shop.php?action=full&id=378 > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.412 / Virus Database: 268.18.4/705 - Release Date: > 2/27/2007 > > On Sun, 25 Jan 2009, mIEKAL aND wrote: > >> New lingua franca upsets French >> Friday, 23 January 2009 >> >> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/7844192.stm >> >> >> Monsieur Nerriere is a retired French businessman who one day in the >> course of his work made a fascinating observation. >> >> In a meeting with colleagues from around the world, including an >> Englishman, a Korean and a Brazilian, he noticed that he and the >> other >> non-native English speakers were communicating in a form of English >> that was completely comprehensible to them, but which left the >> Englishman nonplussed. >> >> He, Jean-Paul Nerriere, could talk to the Korean and the Brazilian in >> this neo-language, and they could understand each other perfectly. >> >> But the Englishman was left out because his language was too subtle, >> too full of meaning that could not be grasped by the others. >> >> In other words, Monsieur Nerriere concluded, a new form of English is >> developing around the world, used by people for whom it is their >> second language. >> >> It may not be the most beautiful of tongues, but in this day and age >> he says it is indispensible. He calls the language Globish and urges >> everyone - above all the French - to learn it tout de suite. >> >> In his book Don't Speak English, Parlez Globish, Monsieur Nerriere >> sets out the rules. >> >> Globish has only 1,500 words and users must avoid humour, metaphor, >> abbreviation and anything else that can cause cross-cultural >> confusion. >> >> They must speak slowly and in short sentences. Funnily enough, he >> holds up the late Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat as an excellent >> exponent. >> >> Many in France consider Monsieur Nerriere a traitor for promoting the >> dreaded Anglais, but he insists he is not. >> >> He says the French have to recognise that the language war is lost. >> >> "We're just urinating on the ashes of the fire," he says. We should >> look on Globish not as a triumphant cultural vehicle for les Anglo- >> Saxons, but as a tool, he says: essential but purely utilitarian. >> ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 00:27:09 -0500 Reply-To: dbuuck@mindspring.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David Buuck Subject: This Friday 1/20: SPT's POETS THEATER INTERMEDIA NIGHT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable please forward widely--- POETS THEATER FEST CONTINUES WITH INTERMEDIA PROGRAM Please join us Friday Jan 30th for the last night of PT09, with several int= er-media works from local & national writers, artists, musicians, & filmmak= ers, along with our huge raffle & other festivities! Program includes: Karla Milosevich: "My Past Life" & "29 Palms" (video) two new videos by Bay Area arts legend & Poets Theater starlet! Amanda Davidson & Cassie Riger: "A-Verbal" (video & performance) The Doctors Feelings present preliminary research on the emerging averbal c= ondition. ( see the preview at http://partedinthemiddle.com/averbal ) Paolo Javier: "FYEO" (text & images), performed by Dennis Somera live cross-cultural de(tour)nement & comix! Linh Dinh: "A Smooth Life" (video) The unconscious of online visual culture whispers its (per)verses into our = ears. Ariana Reines: "Your Mother & I" (audio & performance) "Now son, you know we are not perverse individuals..." Heriberto Y=C3=A9pez: "Voice Exchange Rates" (video) What happens when our machines begin to translate us back into the feedback= loop. Bill Luoma: "The Concept of Ass" (speech & video) baseball bloopers meet diamond gem poetics... Henry Hills: "Money" (film) a classic cut-up featuring John Zorn, Abby Child, Bruce Andrews, Charles Be= rnstein, Sally Silvers, and dozens more.... Dillon Westbrook: "pan(Oa)ic(k)land" (video, text & live music) A multi-media investigation of Oakland & its hidden rhythms. Claudia Rankine & John Lucas: "Provenance" (video essay) On the head-butt heard 'round the world... Konrad Steiner: "Suite for Face" (video & live music) Improvising movie musicians pull the masks of actors into new affective dir= ections. Friday 1/30, 730 pm. $10 donation. Timken Hall, CCA 1111 8th Street, San Francisco smallpresstraffic.blogspot.com sptraffic.org =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 23:47:09 -0800 Reply-To: poet_in_hell@yahoo.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve russell Subject: Re: Globish MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii shame the French lost the language war. they should penalize anyone using too many English words a barbarian tax. one way to get back for FREEDOM FRIES ugh, how many US speakers know more than American English????? me/2/guilty... ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 04:56:22 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: blacksox@ATT.NET Subject: Re: Zebulon set from last night In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Alan Thanks for this. You are the American Fripp and your innovative technique is great to hear Peace Russ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 06:37:41 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Aryanil Mukherjee Organization: KAURAB Subject: Book Review Updates @ Kaurab In-Reply-To: <1232246359l.405648l.0l@psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.kaurab.com/english/ Three new book reviews, as part of the international book review series - BOOK OPENER - have just been released @ Kaurab Online's Translation Archive. This book review series is meant to emphasize creative, non-academic review of international poetry publications in English language. The current update covers - We Are Here by Niels Hav (Book Thug) - reviewed by Tyrone Williams THE PINK by Kyle Schlesinger (Kenning Edition) - reviewed by Pat Clifford sexoPUROsexoVELOZ & Septiembre by Dolores Dorantes (Kenning Edition & Counterpath Press) - reviewed collaboratively in the two languages (Spanish & English) of the original book, by Subhro Bandopadhyay & Aryanil Mukherjee We encourage feedback and request small presses from around the world to submit books on international poetry (written in or translated into English) to the Kaurab BOOK OPENER. And, sure, North American poetry is more than welcome. Please send books to - Kaurab BOOK OPENER Poetry Review Series c/o Dana Ward Aryanil Mukherjee 7812 Meadowcreek Dr Cincinnati, OH 45244 ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 11:59:48 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Nicholas Karavatos Subject: CFP - "Translation in the New Millennium" - 2nd International Conference Comments: To: cultstud-l cultstud-l Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 DQpUaGUgRGVwYXJ0bWVudCBvZiBFbmdsaXNoIExhbmd1YWdlIGFuZCBMaXRlcmF0dXJlDQpVbml2 ZXJzaXR5IG9mIFNoYXJqYWgNCjJuZCBJbnRlcm5hdGlvbmFsIENvbmZlcmVuY2Ugb24NClRyYW5z bGF0aW9uIGluIHRoZSBOZXcgTWlsbGVubml1bQ0KIA0KQ2FsbCBmb3IgUGFwZXJzDQpMb2NhdGlv bjogU2hhcmphaCwgVW5pdGVkIEFyYWIgRW1pcmF0ZXMNClN0YXJ0IGRhdGU6IDI5IE1hcmNoIDIw MTANCkVuZCBkYXRlOiAgMzAgTWFyY2ggMjAxMA0KQ29udGFjdDogUHJvZi4gU2hlaGRlaCBGYXJl aA0KRS1NYWlsOiBzaGZhcmVoQHNoYXJqYWguYWMuYWUNCiANCkxpbmd1aXN0aWMgU3ViZmllbGQ6 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bCBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiAoTWF4LiAxMDAgd29yZHMgcGVyIHByZXNlbnRlcik6IA0KIA0KIA0KIA0K IA0KIA0KIA0KIA0KIA0KIA0KDQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCipUaWNrIHdoZXJlIGFwcGxpY2FibGUu DQoNCiANCiANCiANCiANCiANCiANCiANCiANCiANCiANCiANCiANCg0KDQpOaWNob2xhcyBLYXJh dmF0b3MgDQpEZXB0IG9mIEVuZ2xpc2ggDQpBbWVyaWNhbiBVbml2ZXJzaXR5IG9mIFNoYXJqYWgg DQpQTyBCb3ggMjY2NjYgDQpTaGFyamFoIA0KVW5pdGVkIEFyYWIgRW1pcmF0ZXMNCl9fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f DQpIb3RtYWlswq4gZ29lcyB3aGVyZSB5b3UgZ28uIE9uIGEgUEMsIG9uIHRoZSBXZWIsIG9uIHlv dXIgcGhvbmUuIA0KaHR0cDovL3d3dy53aW5kb3dzbGl2ZS1ob3RtYWlsLmNvbS9sZWFybm1vcmUv dmVyc2F0aWxpdHkuYXNweCNtb2JpbGU/b2NpZD1UWFRfVEFHSE1fV0xfSE1fdmVyc2F0aWxpdHlf MTIxMjA4IA== ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 05:36:56 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Troy Camplin Subject: Re: Globish MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Good thing they lost it. Now maybe they can get back to writing great literature, which has stagnated since they French language council was created. This is where Leftist micromanagement of all the aspects of one's life will get you. You can't stagnate the language like that and expect literature to thrive. Troy Camplin ________________________________ From: steve russell To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 1:47:09 AM Subject: Re: Globish shame the French lost the language war. they should penalize anyone using too many English words a barbarian tax. one way to get back for FREEDOM FRIES ugh, how many US speakers know more than American English????? me/2/guilty... ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 07:59:03 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Francesco Levato Subject: "No Love for Love" - Poetry Center of Chicago Annual Benefit In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable For those of you in Chicago I hope you can attend the Poetry Center=B9s =B3No Love for Love=B2 annual benefit. Details are below. The Poetry Center of Chicago Annual Benefit "No Love For Love" featuring Peter Sagal, host of NPR's "Wait Wait... Don't Tell Me!" Peter Sagal headlines an evening of romance, love, fidelity and similar afflictions. With performances by Rosie Forrest, Edward Thomas-Herrera, Robbie Q. Telfer and short film maker Steve Delahoyde. Hosted by Jonathan Messenger.=20 Monday, February 9, 2009 - 8:00pm Victory Gardens/Biograph Theater $20 admission. Tickets available at the Victory Gardens Box Office at 773-871-3000 or online at www.victorygardens.org VIP Reception Hang out with Peter Sagal at our pre-show VIP reception. 6:00pm - 7:30pm $150 admission. VIP ticket includes general admission to the event, drinks, hors d'oeuvres, a private book signing, and a chance to mingle with Peter. Tickets for the VIP reception are available at the Poetry Center at 312-899-1229 or online at www.poetrycenter.org/node/588. ALL PROCEEDS BENEFIT THE POETRY CENTER OF CHICAGO =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 09:11:53 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: teersteeg Subject: Inaugural poem-- MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Don't know if this site's been posted but it has some very funny things = on the inaugural poem: http://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2009/01/the-inaugural-poem-remix.html regards, bruno cape cod =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 08:14:24 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Francesco Levato Subject: AWP Chicago - Poetry Center Events In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable The Poetry Center of Chicago is hosting a number of off-site events this year at AWP from poetry in translation to a focus on Chicago poetics. Admission is free. For more information stop by our AWP booth or visit http://www.poetrycenter.org. It would be great if you could attend. Thanks, Francesco Levato AWP OFF-SITE EVENTS *** POETRY IN TRANSLATION Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 6:30pm SAIC Ballroom, 112 S. Michigan Avenue, Chicago Featuring readings by Donald Revell, Cole Swensen, Forrest Gander, Jen Hofe= r and Laura Sol=F3rzano, Johannes Goranss=F6n, Maxine Chernoff, and Paul Hoover *** CHICAGO POETICS Friday, February 13, 2009 - 6:30pm SAIC Ballroom, 112 S. Michigan Avenue, Chicago Featuring readings by Kevin Koval, Simone Muench, Larry Sawyer, Ray Bianchi= , Chris Glomski, Jennifer Scappettone, William Allegrezza, Melissa Severin an= d Jackie White *** LOVE ON THE LINE: POEMS ABOUT LOVE Saturday, February 14, 2009 - 6:30pm Sullivan Galleries, 33 S. State St., 7th floor, Chicago Featuring readings by Cynthia Atkins, Frank Bidart, Kurt Brown, A. Van Jordan, Paul Muldoon, Elise Paschen, and Robert Polito read from and discus= s their work. *** For more information please visit http://www.poetrycenter.org =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 11:46:46 EST Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: William James Austin Subject: Blackbox MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello everyone, As some of you may know, Blackbox experienced recent and rather severe problems, especially with submissions that were lost in transmission. After several failed attempts to receive said submissions, I've decided to put together a short Fall Gallery and leave it at that. I had intended a much larger Fall/Winter combo, but Winter will now have to wait. I've been informed that many computers are experiencing communication problems due to Mercury retrograde (or whatever that virus is named). Perhaps this is the source of my and others' difficulties. A short Fall Gallery should be online now. Best, Bill (William James Austin) WilliamJamesAustin.com KojaPress.com SPDbooks.org Amazon.com BarnesandNoble.com


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A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.a spx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=DecemailfooterNO62) ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 22:34:16 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: colin herd Subject: Sound Poet from Brasil, Jamil Jorge MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello List. I wonder if anyone can help me: a friend asked me for information about a sound poet from Brasil, Jamil Jorge, and she has me pretty stumped. Of course, as ever when you're looking for something rare, there's a fabulous recording on Ubu, but I am writing this in the hope of finding some more information, biography, contact details, websites, publication/recording-info, whatever you may have basically. Thank-you in advance for any information you may have. Yours, Colin. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 16:51:41 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Erik Anderson Subject: FW: Bombay Gin 35.1 Just Released MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Department of Writing and Poetics at Naropa University is pleased to an= nounce the release of Bombay Gin 35.1: This issue features new writing by Jena Osman, Rachel Levitsky, Ilya Kamins= ky, Sara Veglahn, Raymond Federman, Miranda Mellis, Truong Tran, Julie Carr= , Noelle Kocot, Sawako Nakayasu, Stacy Szymaszek, among many others, as wel= l as a new design and cover by Jeff Clark. The issue also features a transc= ribed lecture by Peter Gizzi on "Jack Spicer & the Practice of Reading" (19= 98) from the Naropa Audio Archives. Individual copies ($12) and subscriptio= ns can be purchased online at our website through Paypal, in the Writing an= d Poetics Department, and at bookstores throughout the country. Bombay Gin, which publishes innovative poetry, prose, and hybrid texts as w= ell as art, translations, and interviews, has enjoyed 35 years of publicati= on by The Naropa Press in the Jack Kerouac School of Disembodied Poetics, c= o-founded by Allen Ginsberg and Anne Waldman, at Naropa University. Each is= sue includes a talk or lecture transcribed from the Naropa Audio Archives. = Called "one of the three most important literary audio collections in Ameri= ca" by The New York Times, the Archives are comprised of six thousand hours= of tapes documenting classes, performances, workshops, and lectures conduc= ted at Naropa by many of the leading figures of the U.S. literary avant-gar= de. Check out the website for Bombay Gin at http://www.naropa.edu/bombaygin= /index.cfm for submission guidelines and more. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 19:10:47 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: peter ganick Subject: yes ... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit multifarious things going on at http://pganickz.livejournal.com !check them and send something for consideration ! text in message window only ... no attachments ... thanks ! send to ... -- books by pg -- http://whiteskybooks.weebly.com literary blog -- http://pganickz.livejournal.com art www.flickr.com/photos/textimagepoetry/sets/ music -- http://netnewmusic.ning.com as literary publisher -- http://bluelionbooks.info "Move from zero." --John Cage ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 20:08:06 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Lil Norton Subject: New Lil Norton Book, Comment Is Free Vol. 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lil Norton is proud to present its newest book, Comment Is Free, Vol. 3 The third in a series of books on various subjects, all of it pulled from newspaper comment streams. The current volume, "Subjects," collages comments to articles on blogging and "oversharing," psychiatry for the superwealthy, the rights of apes, and the future of the book. The present volume sells at cost for $5.98 from Lulu. Visit Lil' Norton's storefront today! ( http://stores.lulu.com/lil_norton) -Lawrence Giffin http://lilnorton.blogspot.com/ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 10:43:24 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jennifer Karmin Subject: ART ACTIVISM in Chicago this week! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ART ACTIVIST events this week Chicago, Illinois presented by When Does It or You Begin? (Memory as Innovation) Writing, Performance, & Video Festival curated by Amina Cain and Jennifer Karmin http://www.linkshall.org/09-pp-jan.shtml ***ASK ME! HOUSE PARTY*** Thursday, January 29 from 7-9pm hosted by Laurie Jo Reynolds in Logan Square suggested donation $10 (pay what you can) reservations required, call 773.281.0824 Have you ever wondered how to improve your sleep hygiene, what it is like to be a flight attendant, or why there were marches for the right to be bellhops in Atlanta in 1930? If you are naturally inquisitive, this is the open house for you. We will have an ASK ME! party in which we take turns playing the expert. The area/s we ask you about can come from experience, employment, training, study, hobby, obsession or life circumstance. Or, just come to learn. Join us for the pleasures of food, drink, and live human interaction. Example topics from our household: insomnia (personal experience), civil rights testing (employment), Batman (study), understanding packrats (life circumstance), Tamms supermax prison (training), and the unofficial history of the Stone Mountain Confederate monument (obsession). Expect to eat delicious Tempeh Reubenettes! Co-sponsored by Laurie Jo Reynolds and Scott McFarland. ***1968/2008*** THE INHERITANCE OF POLITICS AND THE POLITICS OF INHERITANCE Sunday, February 1 from 3-5pm at the Japanese American Service Committee of Chicago 4427 North Clark Street free Readings and discussion with writers in celebration of the latest magazine release of AREA Chicago, a publication and event series dedicated to researching, supporting, and networking local social, political, and cultural movements. Featuring AREA #7 contributors: Ashley Weger, Michael Staudenmaier, Cathleen Schandelmeier, Samuel Barnett, Rebecca Zorach, Frank Edwards, and Daniel Tucker. Check out AREA #7 at http://areachicago.org/p/issues/7/ - all publication content is free online. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 22:25:58 -0800 Reply-To: poet_in_hell@yahoo.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve russell Subject: Globish MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable what happened to Esperanto?=A0 & as Eir=EDkur =D6rn Nor=F0dahlas pointed ou= t, I like the idea of exposing language, rather than mastering it. Honing i= nto any given vernacular. Sort of the way Venturi approached architecture. What's so bad about the mobile home? It's perfectly functional. Why can't it be beautiful? It would be funny if someone tried to do with language what Bertrand Russel= l did with mathmatics. Not provide a proof, but devise something so rational, no 2 speakers could possibly misunderstand one another. =0A=0A=0A= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 02:18:03 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: Richard Kostelanetz's SRAM/BLEDS at AC[Chapel] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit kazuko shiraishi ira cohen and myself dalachinsky with great trumpeter oki itaru at bowery po club sat jan 31 at 2 pm On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 14:22:13 -0500 Holly Crawford writes: > Installation of SCRAM/BLEDS from book of concrete poems by Richard > > Kostelanetz will adorn the walls > of AC [Chapel] 547 W. 27th St, 5th Floor > New York City 10001 > > The opening is Thursday December 18 from 6-8. The exhibition runs > through > Jan 17. The space is open Monday-Saturday 9-6 pm. > > And a poem by Dan Waber is written on our very large blackboard wall > this > month. > > More to come. > > -Holly Crawford > hc@artcurrents.org > www.artcurrrents.org > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 21:38:36 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Small Press Traffic Subject: SPT: This Friday 1/30: Poets Theater Inter-Media Night! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please distribute widely. Please excuse any cross-postings. Please come! POETS THEATER FEST CONTINUES WITH INTERMEDIA PROGRAM Please join us Friday Jan 30th for the last night of PT09, with several inter-media works from local & national writers, artists, musicians, & filmmakers, along with our huge raffle & other festivities! Program includes: Karla Milosevich: "My Past Life" & "29 Palms" (video) two new videos by Bay Area arts legend & Poets Theater starlet! Amanda Davidson & Cassie Riger: "A-Verbal" (video & performance) The Doctors Feelings present preliminary research on the emerging averbal condition. ( see the preview at http://partedinthemiddle.com/averbal ) Paolo Javier: "FYEO" (text & images), performed by Dennis Somera live cross-cultural de(tour)nement & comix! Linh Dinh: "A Smooth Life" (video) The unconscious of online visual culture whispers its (per)verses into our = ears. Ariana Reines: "Your Mother & I" (audio & performance) "Now son, you know we are not perverse individuals..." Heriberto Y=E9pez: "Voice Exchange Rates" (video) What happens when our machines begin to translate us back into the feedback loop. Bill Luoma: "The Concept of Ass" (speech & video) baseball bloopers meet diamond gem poetics... Henry Hills: "Money" (film) a classic cut-up featuring John Zorn, Abby Child, Bruce Andrews, Charles Bernstein, Sally Silvers, and dozens more.... Dillon Westbrook: "pan(Oa)ic(k)land" (video, text & live music) A multi-media investigation of Oakland & its hidden rhythms. Claudia Rankine & John Lucas: "Provenance" (video essay) On the head-butt heard 'round the world... Konrad Steiner: "Suite for Face" (video & live music) Improvising movie musicians pull the masks of actors into new affective directions. Friday 1/30, 730 pm. $10 donation. Timken Hall, CCA 1111 8th Street, San Francisco -- Samantha Giles Executive Director Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center sptraffic.org smallpresstraffic.blogspot.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 14:11:16 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Nate Pritts Subject: spicer's poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just thought you might get a kick out of this -=20 =20 my sophomore & junior Gifted English classes are writing papers on single p= oets & part of the assignment is to make a movie of one of the poems. I'm = posting a bunch of them up on www.schooltube.com - just search for "Bolton"= to see them all as they pop up. =20 Here's the direct link to one on Spicer's "A Red Wheelbarrow." =20 www.schooltube.com/video/20049/Jack-Spicer---Poetry ___________:: Nate Pritts :: http://www.correspondentbreeze.blogspot.com ::= http://www.natepritts.com=20 _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live=99 Hotmail=AE:=85more than just e-mail.=20 http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_expl= ore_012009= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 08:43:25 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Alan Sondheim Subject: NetBehaviour Digest, Vol 192, Issue 6 (fwd) - James Lovelock - see belw (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed | Alan Sondheim Mail archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ | To access the Odyssey exhibition The Accidental Artist: | http://slurl.com/secondlife/Odyssey/48/12/22 | Webpage (directory) at http://www.alansondheim.org | sondheim@panix.com, sondheim@gmail.org, tel US 718-813-3285 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 08:43:07 -0500 (EST) From: Alan Sondheim To: Cyb , Wryting-L , Cyberculture Subject: NetBehaviour Digest, Vol 192, Issue 6 (fwd) - James Lovelock - see belw Message: 8 Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 01:15:55 +0000 From: info Subject: [NetBehaviour] James Lovelock and climate change. To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity Message-ID: <497A6BCB.3090805@furtherfield.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed James Lovelock and climate change. With his 90th birthday in July, a trip into space scheduled for later in the year and a new book out next month, 2009 promises to be an exciting time for James Lovelock. But the originator of the Gaia theory, which describes Earth as a self-regulating planet, has a stark view of the future of humanity. He tells Gaia Vince we have one last chance to save ourselves - and it has nothing to do with nuclear power Your work on atmospheric chlorofluorocarbons led eventually to a global CFC ban that saved us from ozone-layer depletion. Do we have time to do a similar thing with carbon emissions to save ourselves from climate change? Not a hope in hell. Most of the "green" stuff is verging on a gigantic scam. Carbon trading, with its huge government subsidies, is just what finance and industry wanted. It's not going to do a damn thing about climate change, but it'll make a lot of money for a lot of people and postpone the moment of reckoning. I am not against renewable energy, but to spoil all the decent countryside in the UK with wind farms is driving me mad. It's absolutely unnecessary, and it takes 2500 square kilometres to produce a gigawatt - that's an awful lot of countryside. more... http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20126921.500-one-last-chance-to-save-mankind.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 09:29:32 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: spicer's poetry Comments: To: Nate Pritts In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Spicer film is wonderful. Made me homesick for high school - when given= that kind of permission to do something creative like this.=20 Be perhaps interesting to see the poem done 'transgressively' - say, in bla= ck face, as a way to explore further the implications ('significances') of = 'signs'. Just a thought. If interested, "Ocean Beach", my piece up on the current Jacket #36 explore= s Spicer 's "No one listens to poetry" by going down to the beach - here in= San Francisco - to make haptics and study the implications of poem in the = context of an actual ocean.=20 Thanks again for 'the lead.'=A0=20 Stephen Vincent http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ --- On Wed, 1/28/09, Nate Pritts wrote: From: Nate Pritts Subject: spicer's poetry To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 6:11 AM Just thought you might get a kick out of this -=20 =20 my sophomore & junior Gifted English classes are writing papers on single poets & part of the assignment is to make a movie of one of the poems.=20 I'm posting a bunch of them up on www.schooltube.com - just search for "Bolton" to see them all as they pop up. =20 Here's the direct link to one on Spicer's "A Red Wheelbarrow." =20 www.schooltube.com/video/20049/Jack-Spicer---Poetry ___________:: Nate Pritts :: http://www.correspondentbreeze.blogspot.com :: http://www.natepritts.com=20 _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live=99 Hotmail=AE:=85more than just e-mail.=20 http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_expl= ore_012009 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 19:52:38 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Small Press Traffic Subject: SPT: This Friday 1/30: Poets Theater Inter-Media Night! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please distribute widely. Please excuse any cross-postings. Please come! POETS THEATER FEST CONTINUES WITH INTERMEDIA PROGRAM Please join us Friday Jan 30th for the last night of PT09, with several inter-media works from local & national writers, artists, musicians, & filmmakers, along with our huge raffle & other festivities! Program includes: Karla Milosevich: "My Past Life" & "29 Palms" (video) two new videos by Bay Area arts legend & Poets Theater starlet! Amanda Davidson & Cassie Riger: "A-Verbal" (video & performance) The Doctors Feelings present preliminary research on the emerging averbal condition. ( see the preview at http://partedinthemiddle.com/averbal ) Paolo Javier: "FYEO" (text & images), performed by Dennis Somera live cross-cultural de(tour)nement & comix! Linh Dinh: "A Smooth Life" (video) The unconscious of online visual culture whispers its (per)verses into our = ears. Ariana Reines: "Your Mother & I" (audio & performance) "Now son, you know we are not perverse individuals..." Heriberto Y=E9pez: "Voice Exchange Rates" (video) What happens when our machines begin to translate us back into the feedback loop. Bill Luoma: "The Concept of Ass" (speech & video) baseball bloopers meet diamond gem poetics... Henry Hills: "Money" (film) a classic cut-up featuring John Zorn, Abby Child, Bruce Andrews, Charles Bernstein, Sally Silvers, and dozens more.... Dillon Westbrook: "pan(Oa)ic(k)land" (video, text & live music) A multi-media investigation of Oakland & its hidden rhythms. Claudia Rankine & John Lucas: "Provenance" (video essay) On the head-butt heard 'round the world... Konrad Steiner: "Suite for Face" (video & live music) Improvising movie musicians pull the masks of actors into new affective directions. Friday 1/30, 730 pm. $10 donation. Timken Hall, CCA 1111 8th Street, San Francisco --=20 Samantha Giles Executive Director Small Press Traffic Literary Arts Center sptraffic.org smallpresstraffic.blogspot.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:00:15 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Troy Camplin Subject: Globish MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cantor already showed the limits of mathematical rationality, showing one c= ould not rationally prove its foundations. Can't do it with math, you defin= itely can't do it with language.=0A=0A=0ATroy Camplin=0A=0A=0A=0A__________= ______________________=0AFrom: steve russell =0ATo:= POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=0ASent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 12:25:58 = AM=0ASubject: Globish=0A=0Awhat happened to Esperanto? & as Eir=EDkur =D6r= n Nor=F0dahlas pointed out, I like the idea of exposing language, rather th= an mastering it. Honing into any given vernacular. Sort of the=0Away Ventur= i approached architecture. What's so bad about the mobile=0Ahome? It's perf= ectly functional. Why can't it be beautiful?=0A=0A=0A=0AIt would be funny i= f someone tried to do with language what Bertrand Russell=0Adid with mathma= tics. Not provide a proof, but devise something so=0Arational, no 2 speaker= s could possibly misunderstand one another. =0A=0A=0A=0A=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=0AThe Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Chec= k guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:10:21 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jerome Rothenberg Subject: Milos Sovak MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On January 26, 2009 Milos Sovak died after a long illness. Our = friendship had lasted over thirty years & gave me the opportunity to = work with him on a series of translations, the most important a book of = selected poems from the great Czech modernist Vitezslav Nezval & = scattered poems from the late Russian Romantic Mikhail Lermontov. Our = collaborations took place mainly in the sunlit garden of his home in = Encinitas, California, & occasionally at his other home in Provence, = close to Mazan & the chateau & theater of the Marquis de Sade. Milos = was himself a gifted translator into Czech & the designer, typographer, = & publisher of limited edition artists' books through his own Ettan = Press in California. He was a good friend to many poets & artists, & = most remarkably an important medical researcher & the inventor of an = impressive range of devices in many fields. The felicities in our = collaborations are largely of his doing. =20 Our translations from Nezval can be found in Antilyrik & Other Poems, = published by Green Integer Press in 2001, and most of our translations = from Lermontov appear in Poems for the Millennium, volume 3. Examples = from both poets, along with the preceding note, have just been posted on = my blog, poemsandpoetics.blogspot.com. =20 Jerome Rothenberg "If the work of another =20 1026 San Abella translates my dream, Encinitas, CA 92024 his work is mine." =20 (760) 436-9923 F. Picabia =20 jrothenberg at cox.net http://writing.upenn.edu/epc/authors/rothenberg/ ethnopoetics web site: http://ubu.com/ethno/ j.r. in spanish: http://writing.upenn.edu/epc/authors/rothenberg/esp/ = Blog at poemsandpoetics.blogspot.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 12:17:26 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: Globish Comments: To: poet_in_hell@yahoo.com In-Reply-To: <389421.48840.qm@web52406.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Check out the Universal Language movement whose roots go back to the 1700s & has fostered dozens of attempts at such a beast. One of my favorites is Alwato devised by Stephen Pearl Andrews, the founder of Modern Times, an early intentional community on Long Island. ~mIEKAL On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 12:25 AM, steve russell wrote: > It would be funny if someone tried to do with language what Bertrand Russell > did with mathmatics. Not provide a proof, but devise something so > rational, no 2 speakers could possibly misunderstand one another. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 11:05:53 -0800 Reply-To: tsavagebar@yahoo.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: spicer's poetry In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If you can get a hold of the old book of Spicer's poems called The Collecte= d Books of Jack Spicer it includes a questionnaire that he and Robert Dunca= n made for a poetry workshop they taught together long, long ago.=A0 It mig= ht be interesting to give this questionnaire to your students.=A0 Regards, = Tom Savage --- On Wed, 1/28/09, Nate Pritts wrote: From: Nate Pritts Subject: spicer's poetry To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 9:11 AM Just thought you might get a kick out of this -=20 =20 my sophomore & junior Gifted English classes are writing papers on single poets & part of the assignment is to make a movie of one of the poems.=20 I'm posting a bunch of them up on www.schooltube.com - just search for "Bolton" to see them all as they pop up. =20 Here's the direct link to one on Spicer's "A Red Wheelbarrow." =20 www.schooltube.com/video/20049/Jack-Spicer---Poetry ___________:: Nate Pritts :: http://www.correspondentbreeze.blogspot.com :: http://www.natepritts.com=20 _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live=99 Hotmail=AE:=85more than just e-mail.=20 http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_expl= ore_012009 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 11:20:43 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Globish In-Reply-To: <456855.2536.qm@web46204.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed In what way is the French Academy leftish? I would have thought to call it rightish, as patriotic stuff generally is. gb On Jan 27, 2009, at 5:36 AM, Troy Camplin wrote: > Good thing they lost it. Now maybe they can get back to writing > great literature, which has stagnated since they French language > council was created. This is where Leftist micromanagement of all > the aspects of one's life will get you. You can't stagnate the > language like that and expect literature to thrive. > > Troy Camplin > > > > ________________________________ > From: steve russell > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 1:47:09 AM > Subject: Re: Globish > > shame the French lost the language war. > they should penalize anyone using too many English words a > barbarian tax. > > one way to get back for FREEDOM FRIES > ugh, how many US speakers know more than American English????? > me/2/guilty... > > > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/ > welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/ > welcome.html > Geo. Harry Bowering, M.A. Fell down in Firenze ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 11:39:28 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jennifer Karmin Subject: FINAL WEEK: When Does It or You Begin? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable WHEN DOES IT OR YOU BEGIN? (MEMORY AS INNOVATION) Festival of Writing, Performance, & Video Curated by Amina Cain & Jennifer Karmin at Links Hall 3435 N. Sheffield Avenue Chicago, IL FINAL WEEK Memory=E2=80=99s Place: Alternative Sites and Histories featuring documentary, sound work, performance art, and stories=20 FRIDAY, JANUARY 30 at 8pm Tisa Bryant Duriel Harris video by Bryan & Jake Saner video by Chi Jang Yin=20 talkback with Tony Trigilio SATURDAY, JANUARY 31 at 8pm Tisa Bryant Amina Cain with Rachel Tredon ThickRoutes Performance Collage video by Bryan & Jake Saner SUNDAY, FEBRUARY 1 at 7pm Amina Cain with Rachel Tredon Duriel Harris ThickRoutes Performance Collage video by Chi Jang Yin TICKETS $12 $10 students, seniors, & working artists/writers FULL SCHEDULE ONLINE http://www.linkshall.org/09-pp-jan.shtml (Note: Miranda Mellis has cancelled due to illness) FESTIVAL CLOSING EVENT 1968/2008:=20 The Inheritance of Politics and The Politics of Inheritance Sunday, February 1 from 3-5pm at the Japanese American Service Committee of Chicago=20 4427 North Clark Street free Readings and discussion with writers in celebration of the latest magazine = release of AREA Chicago, a publication and event series dedicated to resear= ching, supporting, and networking local social, political, and cultural mov= ements. Featuring AREA #7 contributors: Samuel Barnett, Frank Edwards, Cath= leen Schandelmeier, Earl Silbar, Michael Staudenmaier, Daniel Tucker, Ashle= y Weger, Rebecca Zorach. =20 Check out AREA #7, all publication content is free online. http://areachicago.org/p/issues/7/ =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 17:42:22 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Barrett Watten Subject: contact / Poetics Journal Guide and Archive Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Barrett Watten and I are in need of contact=20 information for the following people (listed=20 below), whose work we hope to include, with their=20 permission, in a forthcoming two-part publication=20 from Wesleyan University Press. The first part=20 will be a volume titled A Guide to Poetics=20 Journal: Writing in the Expanded Field,=20 1982=961998. It will include a number of key works=20 excerpted from the pages of Poetics Journal=20 (issues 1-10, 1982-1998) along with subsidiary=20 materials intended to contextualize the works and=20 direct attention to key issues and=20 interrelationships among the texts. The second=20 part will be the Poetics Journal Digital Archive,=20 an online resource that will include the entirety=20 of all ten issues of PJ. It will be available in=20 a searchable and downloadable form to individual=20 and institutional subscribers for scholarly and=20 creative uses. If anyone can provide contact=20 information, please send it to=20 lynhejinian@earthlink.net. Thank you. Lyn Mike Anderson, author of Vrille (State One, 1984)=20 and former editor of Pessimistic Labor. Bruce Campbell, critic, who taught at UC=20 Riverside, and published frequently in Temblor Paul A. Green/ U.K. poet Paul Green=ADonce of 83b London Road, Peterborough,=20 Cambridgeshire, UK=ADis he still there? Bernard No=EBl, French writer, born in 1930 Claire Phillips=ADa former student of Barrett Watten=92s Peter Seaton Gavin Selerie=ADBritish poet Joey Simas=ADAmerican poet and translator living in France =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 18:39:53 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: joseph bradshaw Subject: Sprare Room Presents Laynie Brown & Jared Hayes 2/1, Portland MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Spare Room presents Laynie Browne Jared Hayes Sunday, February 1 7:30 pm Concordia Coffee House 2909 NE Alberta $5.00 suggested donation www.flim.com/spareroom spareroom@flim.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Upcoming readings: February 8: Andrew Joron / Andrew Zawacki =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Laynie Browne is the author of seven collections of poetry and one novel. Her most recent publications include The Scented Fox (Wave), Daily Sonnets (Counterpath) and Drawing of a Swan Before Memory (University of Georgia). She was for many years a member of the Subtext Collective in Seattle, and now is part of the POG reading series in Tucson. She is currently developing a new a poetry-in-the-schools program for K-5 schools, through the Poetry Center at the University of Arizona. jared hayes lives in portland, oregon. he is publisher and co-editor of livestock editions. jared hayes believes in ghosts. his poetry can be found. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D from Radiolarian Atlas Petalospyris arachnoides Descending claw spider thrift Ten-legged trope with triceratops leanings Inside your yellow-chambered soir=E9e is a bouncing reverie of a ballroom O hidden balustrade, from whose aquamarine invitation was this divine gathering sung? Laynie Browne from night after night mesostic transpsych(ot)ic iteration this is the best leJos to do things. this is the very best ecerrAda to do things. this is the very best sIempre to do things exactly poeMa transparEncia now and excluSiva is the night acercAdo doing the night dEstino and this is the night illumiNan doing the night veZ at the night caJa and these are the night brAzos at the night imagIna and this is the night Mascara doing the night Escribe at the night Seno in the night rosAs and these are the night tormEnta doing the night muNdo to the night quiZa at the night refleJaba and these are the estrellA that are exactly night and these exactly night habIta are doing their Muerte which is night and carnE is the night poSa to oscuridAd at the night gravE which is night now and night now cuerNos is exactly night night now where atroZ is. Jared Hayes =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 18:45:49 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: joseph bradshaw Subject: Friday 1/30 Peaches & Bats #3 Release Party, Portland MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [sent on behalf of Jesse Morse & Sam Lohmann] Peaches & Bats Release Party with readings by David Abel Joseph Bradshaw Kaia Sand Sam Lohmann and long-tone music in just intonation by Warren Lee (harmonium), Ian Ackerman (violin), and Gabriel Will (viola). Friday, January 30 7:00 pm The Waypost 3120 N. Williams Avenue http://www.thewaypost.com Food, beer, wine, and espresso all available at The Waypost. Festivities underway at 7pm. http://www.smorgreadingseries.blogspot.com ------- Peaches and Bats #3 features new work by: David Abel, Jennifer Bartlett, Joseph Bradshaw, Stephen Collis, Elaine Equi, Ming Holden, Rich Jensen, Stacey Levine, Lauren Likely, Will Owen, Kaia Sand, Brandon Shimoda, Luvsandorjin Ulziitugs (translated by Simon Wickham-Smith), What We Are Learning, and Deborah Woodard. Peaches and Bats #3 is a hand-sewn zine with a letterpress cover and 72 pg. photocopied interior. It costs $5, and can be purchased in Portland at Powell's or Reading Frenzy; in Olympia at Orca Books or Dumpster Values; and in Seattle at Elliott Bay Books. Soon it will also be available at St. Mark's Bookstore in New York, and eventually, I hope, in other select corners of the world. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 10:35:42 +0200 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Eir=?UTF-8?B?w60=?=kur =?UTF-8?B?w5Y=?=rn Nor=?UTF-8?B?w7A=?=dahl Subject: Re: Globish Comments: To: poet_in_hell@yahoo.com In-Reply-To: <389421.48840.qm@web52406.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Steve Russell wrote:" Not provide a proof, but devise something so > rational, no 2 speakers could possibly misunderstand one another. " Isn't this what Laura Riding intended with Rational Meaning? Something alon= g those lines at least. She obviously never made it that far - renouncing poetry on her way and still language kept slipping from under her grasp. --=20 www.norddahl.org Eir=C3=ADkur =C3=96rn Nor=C3=B0dahl Fleminginkatu 9A 10 00530 Helsinki Finland =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 07:20:32 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: NY Times: Washington Post's Book World Goes Out of Print as a Separate Section MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BOOKS=20 =20 | January 29=2C2009 Washington Post's Book World Goes Out of Print as a Separate Section By MOTOKO RICH The Washington Post has decided to shutter the print version of its Sunday stand-alone book review section and shift reviews to space inside two other sections of the paper. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/29/books/29post.html?emc=3Deta1 _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live=99: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect.=20 http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_howitworks_0= 12009= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 07:21:31 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: NY Times: Washington Post's Book World Goes Out of Print as a Separate Section MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BOOKS=20 =20 | January 29=2C2009 Washington Post's Book World Goes Out of Print as a Separate Section By MOTOKO RICH The Washington Post has decided to shutter the print version of its Sunday stand-alone book review section and shift reviews to space inside two other sections of the paper. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/29/books/29post.html?emc=3Deta1 _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live=99 Hotmail=AE:=85more than just e-mail.=20 http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_expl= ore_012009= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 09:49:13 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Bill Berkson Subject: Berkson PORTRAIT AND DREAM at Cue Art Foundation, New York MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Bill Berkson PORTRAIT AND DREAM: NEW & SELECTED POEMS (Coffee House Press, 2009) Book Signing & Brief Reading Thursday, February 12 6-8 pm Cue Art Foundation 511 West 25th Street (between 10th & 11th Aves.) New York NY FREE: Reservations Required RSVP 212-206-3583 or email ryan.thomas@cueartfoundation.org ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 10:06:55 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=E9amas_Cain?= Subject: Attack against the COX18 cultural centre in Milan, Italy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable _______________ I am forwarding to you a description by Marco Mancuso (with the journal "Digicult") of the attack in Milano, Italy, against the COX18 cultural centre, the Calusca City Lights bookshop, and the Primo Moroni Archive. Marco asks that people sign the petition of support for COX18, etc. For additional information, write to Marco at redazione@digicult.it In solidarity, S=E9amas Cain http://alazanto.org/seamascain http://seamascain.writernetwork.com http://www.mnartists.org/Seamas_Cain _______________________ ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Redazione Digicult Date: Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 4:57 AM Subject: Call for International help against eviction of COX18 and all the other squatts and free social centers in Milan/Italy To: seamascain@gmail.com Hello, The past one, was a sad and angy week for people living in Milan/Italy. Milan's social and cultural life was stricken hard once again. At 7am on january the 22nd around 100 policemen entered the squatt COX18 (http://www.cox18.noblogs.org), which include in its premises the social center created more than 33 years ago, the Calusca City Light bookstore, founded in 1971, and the Primo Moroni Archive. Looking at the Expo2015 that will take place in Milan, the Municipality ask for legal possession of some buildings in town in order to sell them and earn money. The words of the Vice Mayor De Corato were clear: we want to close all the free social centers and squatts in Milan, after COX18 and Pergola Tribe, will be the turn of Cantiere and Torchiera (other 2 important places of free culture in town). We at Digicult, supporting COX18 and all the squatts and social cultural centers in town, ask to all the people that belive in cultural freedom, in the importance of the existance of places of free voice and ideas, that are against repressive policies against free spaces, to follow and help us as much as you can internationally. Spread this call and the future ones and sign the Online Petition here: http://www.petitiononline.com/cox18/petition.html ---------- At 7am on january the 22nd around 100 policemen entered the squatt COX18, which include in its premises the social center created more than 33 years ago, the Calusca City Light bookstore, founded in 1971, and the Primo Moron= i Archive. The importance of this archive is stunning: it is, without any doubt, the most important treasure of memory, books, videos, registrations and a considerable portion of counterculture in Milan and in Italy. At the present moment the squatt is sealed and under seizure with all the material= s inside, the books and the magazines of the bookstore and the archive included. The damage is unbelieveble!!!. COX18 was a place where one could encounter people and ideas, where prices were accessible for all and where discrimination never took place. A place for concerts, workshops, screenings, presentations, meetings, art installations, crossing from different art-forms, many of those related to electronic and digital culture. The Milan town municipality is trying to turn the city into a huge commercial centre, destroying all forms of cultural alternatives and closin= g down all those spaces where cultural elaboration is not subject to a purely market-oriented vision. It's a processes that is still ging on from the las= t 15 years. We are not in for this. We won't abandon this city. We are going to stay here and fight for the right to have free social and cultural spaces destined to free forms of expression. The morning of 22nd, a lot of people arrived in via Conchetta (the street i= n which COX18 lives) to defend the social center against the eviction, then from 4.00 pm in a spontaneous demonstration and call to everybody and to everything to converge at Palazzo Marino, Milano town hall, for a participated and determined demotration for Cox18 and against the evictions= . After this demonstration, many other initiatives were organized in the days after, both on the Internet and on the Streets. There was a big response from intellectuals, people of culture, normal people from all ages. A big concert was organized in a big square in Ticinese disctrict (the same of COX18) and a big mobilitation was a great success on Saturday, January the 24th, against the eviction of the Cox18 At the moment there is a civil case to define the right of ownership of bulding and of the Archive: of course, many other cultural initiatives will be organized in the next days, many words will be written, many concerts will be organized in public spaces of the town, a big national mobilitation will be organized and the Internet will be our friend to spread the word of what is happening against Free Culture in Milan/Italy in this historical moment best and thanks to all Marco Mancuso / Digicult ---------- Videos: http://www.streamit.it/index.htm?v=3D1f5401a85672f89663ccc9801811eed2 http://new.c6.tv/component/library/?task=3Dview&id=3D2772 http://milano.repubblica.it/multimedia/home/4476258 http://www.youreporter.it/view_video.php?viewkey=3D99d28729e0473f7a54e16e2e= a4ee0178 http://www.youreporter.it/view_video.php?viewkey=3D53efdba22c4fc43bad923ceb= 27a1614f ---------- LET'S TAKE BACK COX18, CALUSCA AND THE PRIMO MORONI ARCHIVE At 7am on january the 22nd around 100 policemen entered the squatt COX18, which include in its premises the social center created more than 33 years ago, the Calusca City Light bookstore, founded in 1971, and the Primo Moron= i Archive. In a matter of a few hours, the answer of the city was explicit, a number of comrades, friends and neighbourhoods, gathered in front of the squatt and the armoured police units to confront the unwelcomed guests. It's clearly an illegal eviction which doesn't consider a legal action already going on since july 2008 between the city administration and the squatt COX18 with the sole purpose of taking legal possession of the building. Vice Mayor De Corato, one the main heads trying to suffocate whatever isn't uniformed, gives the responsibility of the action to head of the police and the regional administration. The DA affirm he wasn't informe= d of anything until the eviction was on. Not a real problem, cause all the protagonists agree on the fact that the economic value of the building shouldn't loose value. They're talking about money and economic interest as if this was a reasonable explanation for what is going on. At the present moment. the squatt is sealed and under seizure with all the materials inside, the books and the magazines of the bookstore and the archive included. The COX18 squatt, the Calusca Bookstore and the Primo Moroni Archive represent an important piece of radical and workers' history= ; they testify the possibility to elude the principle of commercialization of things and thoughts.We're not alone, we got the company of others squats, places of free expression and exchange of ideas. Our survival is the survival of freedom of expression, thought and action; of the chance to master our own destiny and future, of any chance not to be judged and considered for what we can/want to spend. It's pretty clear we don't consider this 'game' close, we recognize the one= s refusing the homogeneity of monolithic thought guaranteed by the market and this pseudo democracy: they want us compatible, buyers and buyable, ordered and uniformed, we'll remain what we know we are: original, always ready to spread knowledge, not homogenous and critical to whatever is imposed as truth. ---------- FACTS AND CONSIDERATION ABOUT THE EVICTION It's not correct to read at warm the eviction of the Cox 18, historical social center of street Conchetta in Milan, besides center of the bookshop Calusca and the Primo Moroni's archives. Mobilization against the eviction is in progress, and the Cox eviction is not a closed fact. The eviction occures on January 22 after a question in Parliament against Milan social centers adressed, on January 21, to the Home Affair Minister Mr Maroni the notorious vice-mayor, and public safety alderman and parliamentary, Mr Riccardo De Corato. Certainly this eviction as well as a value in practice, has a great symboli= c value in order to state power of abuse over the city by certain administrators sheriffs in double- breast jacket protagonists of politics based upon evictions of social center in order to support private interest of meddlers and ndrangheta members who see Milan at the center of a vhirl of business for the future Expo. A moltitude of people mobilized this morning since dawn after the first news about Cox18 eviction . After some hours from the garrison of street Conchetta was born a blockage directed toward the mainstreet of the city, stopping traffic of one of the most important metropolis arteries. This morning police intervened under disposition that town hall has emanated anadministrative act (act that has not been proved) in which was signalled the unauthorized occupation of the bulding. The eviction occured and after a long negotiation the real estate was returned by the police to town hall, without clearing away the documents, books, furniture. At the moment there is a civil case to define the right o= f ownership of bulding and we all demand reinstate of ownership to the occupantes, who after 33 years and a deliberation, made in 1989, that granted the real estate to them. _______________ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 09:51:06 -1000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Gabrielle Welford Subject: it's ukiaHaiku festival time again! (fwd) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 11:43:56 -0800 From: Kate Marianchild tiny girl reciting her poem-- hard to breathe The ukiaHaiku festival welcomes your submissions of poems by Friday, March 13 Note: we are offering new prizes starting at $100 in the "Adult, Contemporary" category! Please see Haiku about the festival below. Haiku are blossoming once again among poets new and old as the 7th annual ukiaHaiku festival quickly approaches. Ukiah's Poet Laureate Committee invites submissions of haiku by experienced and inexperienced poets of all ages by Friday, March 13. Haiku are brief 3-line poems that offer a =93snapshot=94 of a scene or a moment in time. Unlike many other kinds of poems, haiku usually do not include rhyme, alliteration, or punctuation. For guidelines on how to write haiku, to read winning poems from years past, and to learn about the available categories and submission methods, go to www.ukiahaiku.org. Forms can also be obtained at all of the county's libraries, including the bookmobile, as well as at Grace Hudson Museum (431 S. School Street, Ukiah). Submissions are free in all categories (which are organized by age group and subject matter) except for the Contemporary Haiku-Adult Category, which costs $5 for up to 3 poems. Examples of other categories are "Children, All Topics, K-3rd grade," "Haiku About Ukiah, 7th-12th grade," and "Traditional Haiku =96 Adult." Prizes are very modest in all categories except "Contemporary Haiku - Adult," for which awards of $100, $50, and $25 are being given this year for the first time. All winning poems will also be published in a book. Unless otherwise specified, all haiku can be submitted in either the traditional (5-7-5 syllable-count) format or the contemporary (briefer, non-syllable counting) format. Teachers who wish to invite a poet into their classroom to guide students in writing haiku should contact Ukiah's Poet Laureate David Smith-Ferri at 467-0468, or email him at smithferri@pacific.net. For more "how-to" information on writing haiku, go to www.ahapoetry.com, the website of well-known haiku poet and ukiaHaiku festival judge Jane Reichhold. The awards ceremony will take place on Sunday, March 26, from 2-4 p.m. at the Ukiah Conference Center. P.S. For those who haven't noticed, "Ukiah" spells "Haiku" backwards! Haiku about the ukiaHaiku festival: haiku wall one thousand paper cranes poised to fly (by Sherrie Smith. This haiku refers to the fact that we post all the entries on the wall at the awards ceremony; paper cranes are metaphorical emissaries of peace - go online for the story of Sadako Sasaki) ukiah's first spring blooms-- haiku (by Kate Marianchild) twelve hundred entries-- under stacks of white paper a single white crane (by Armand Brint) judging haiku-- one feather on a rippling pond (by Armand Brint) haiku fly from distant lands-- spring migration (by Kate Marianchild. This haiku refers to the fact that we get submissions to our festival from all over the world) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 15:16:34 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Aryanil Mukherjee Subject: I Gave Away The Sky:: Remembering Gregory Corso MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I GAVE AWAY THE SKY - Reading to celebrate the poetics and poetry of Gregory Corso Thurs. 2/5 @7PM in the University of Cincinnati's Reed Gallery. Tuesday, Feb. 3, 7 p.m., Memorial Hall - Muse Sick $5 Door/ Cash Bar/ Doors at 6PM Advanced seats can be reserved at Shake It Records and Coffee Emporium An evening of music with jazz legend David Amram and Jane Carver. This performance of Jane Carver's new arrangement of David Amram's score for Robert Frank and Alfred Leslie's film "Pull My Daisy," will feature a live performance by jazz legend David Amram, as well as musicians from the University of Cincinnati's College Conservatory of Music. Friday, Feb. 6, 5:30 p.m., DAAP 4400 - Corso - The Last Beat A private screening of the feature-length documentary directed by Gustave Reininger, narrated by two- time Academy Award-nominated actor and novelist Ethan Hawke and featuring Allen Ginsberg, William S. Burroughs and poet, performer and Rock & Roll Hall of Fame inductee Patti Smith, as well as Corso himself. A reception follows the film. For more information please contact: Evan Commander: evancommander@mac.com / 513-307-5055 or visit www.igaveawaythesky.com For more information about David Amram visit: www.davidamram.com . For more information about Corso: Tthe Last Beat visit: www.corsothefilm.com Message sent out on behalf of Matt Hart and Evan Commander ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 16:56:52 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ken Rumble Subject: Viking Rock, This Friday, Jan. 30, 9 pm, Durham, NC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Friends! Enemies! Plunderers of all sorts! Spread far and wide! Viking Rock has arrived in Durham! High Master, that king of all things loud, angry, and in spandex!, is proud to announce its debut performance! Tomorrow night! Friday, January 30th! 9 pm! Castle Lubenstein: 608 Yancey Street, Durham, NC!! It's a house party, y'all, bring your own.... The line-up: 9 pm: Y2K Bunker! [doomsday noise collective, Durham, NC] http://www.myspace.com/y2kbunker 10 pm: High Master! [the end of the world as you know it, the year 2355] 11 pm: Pink Flag [riot grrrl trio, Durham, NC] http://www.myspace.com/pinkflagnc Midnight on: dance party/karaoke Bring a weapon cuz it's gonna get ugly.... About High Master: Sprung from the hockey & blow torch addled brain of Mr. Chris Huggins (by day, a jr. high science teacher; by night, a rabid fiend to all that is evil), HIGH MASTER is the true story of the most awesome, most rockingest, most mighty viking to have ever lived! Forget Thor (weakling), forget Odin (sap), forget Hercules (okay, he's Greek, but forget that mama's boy anyway), High Master would have put them all under his thumb with just his pinky! And yet, before he was so great High Master faced a challenge that he could almost not overcome: the dreaded, the evil, the dark, the foul, the stinky= , the annoying, the pesky, the dastardly, the criminal, the unkind, the unthrifty, the really just generally bad DARK LORD UNGR (with an umlaut (aka: Paul Overton)). After an epic battle, Dark Lord Ungr (with an umlaut) froze our hero High Master deep in the icy clutches of a mighty glacier! and with his mighty evil, dreaded, stinky, annoying, etc. power, stole the sun and ruled the earth and subjected all living beings to the most horrendous music imaginable! It was a dark, dark, dark future.... And then! in the year 2355! a brave and noble and handsome and intelligen= t and admirable and handsome and kind to puppies and fearless and generally awesome SCIENTIST (aka: Ken Rumble) whose shiny green suit gave him enormou= s powers of power! invented a time machine called the Ship of Sound!! But doomed was all mankind because the Scientist couldn't find a power source strong enough to make the ship go! Until, one day, while wandering amongst the boulders of the wasteland of the future he spied--locked in the icy gri= p of a mighty glacier--HIGH MASTER! Here, of course, was the power source the Scientist had long been searching for! He thawed out High Master, taught him the fighting art of Kung Future= , put a guitar in his hand, and together, they rocked back thousands of years in time to confront, again, the evil, hiddeous, etc. etc. DARK LORD UNGR (with an umlaut)!!! And High Master and Dark Lord Ungr (with an umlaut) engaged in a most ferocious battle! Their blows split mountains, their kicks cracked planets= , their swords sang out a bloody symphony of rampant destruction!! And after days and days and days of battle, when all looked as it would be lost, the mighty High Master lunged with his sword and impaled the Dark Lor= d Ungr (with an umlaut) through the heart!!!! And so with the Dark Lord Ungr (with an umlaut) defeated and the sun restored, mighty High Master with the trusty Scientist and a mighty horde o= f dancing YETTIS!! launched out on the SHIP OF SOUND to right wrongs, battle evil, and generally rock off the faces of every creature in the whole entir= e universe!!! Some say (whisper even at times) that High Master and his brave crew encountered other masters of musical mayhem on their adventures -- rumors (scarcely to be believed) include names like Rainbow Pony Squad, Pep=E9 La Douche, and Def Sentence, heroes, too, in their own right, but that, my friends, is a story for another day..... yours in rock, Ken --=20 Check out my book Key Bridge: http://www.carolinawrenpress.org/books.html And I'm on the road giving readings!: TBA Reviews of Key Bridge: Ron Silliman: http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2007/04/i-know-ken-rumble-originally-from-h= is.html Kevin Killian: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/0932112544/ref=3Dcm_cr_dp= _all_top/002-7537401-5750437?ie=3DUTF8&n=3D283155&s=3Dbooks#customerReviews And projects: http://durhamhastheworstroadsintheworld.blogspot.com --=20 Check out my book Key Bridge: http://www.carolinawrenpress.org/books.html And I'm on the road giving readings!: TBA Reviews of Key Bridge: Ron Silliman: http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2007/04/i-know-ken-rumble-originally-from-h= is.html Kevin Killian: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/0932112544/ref=3Dcm_cr_dp= _all_top/002-7537401-5750437?ie=3DUTF8&n=3D283155&s=3Dbooks#customerReviews And projects: http://durhamhastheworstroadsintheworld.blogspot.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 19:34:52 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Anna Vitale Subject: submit! submit! raise up your fists. In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ********************* Tired of limits but desperately in need of them? Wondering where your next limit will come from? Look no further. The online audio publication text*sound* is currently listening to submissions of only text/ sound for its third issue. Deadline is March 1, 2009. Send .mp3 files to editors (at) texsound (dot) org or share files uploadable from a free site (like yousendit). For detailed submission guidelines visit textsound.org You can listen to the first two issues at textsound.org. They feature works from noise musicians, story-tellers, conceptual poets, sound poets, electronic musicians, and other artists who enjoy the aural life. Many thanks, textsound c/o Anna Vitale ********************* ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 17:04:19 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: e to a friend about a philosophy of computer art In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, maybe let's take a step back. I think it's important to distinguish between something being readable as code and actually being code. I tend towards a sort of hardcore formalism adopted more or less wholesale from wittgenstein as the foundations of mathematics are concerned, meaning on my view at least explicit mathematical symbols of the sorts that computers can operate on are actually a funny kind of sign that are of a different sort from usual signifiers. We can read a what goes into and out of computers as code because it's explicitly coming from a very code heavy part of our language. This is qualitatively different in my view from what happens with, for example, RNA sequences where what we see is readable as code, and that the function of of rhibozomes is to respond based on what the structure of the RNA sequence "says" but I think moving from that point to saying that what we can interpret as code because it makes sense to us given how we use language actually IS code is something that I think is not self evident. Not saying a case can't be made, just that it needs making. on the other hand, what we have in brain function are all manner of non explicit symbols. in fact, and I may be jumping off a bit of a cliff saying this, one might argue that universals are in fact non- explicit symbols and therefore given that consciousness and thought as we understand them seems to require that sort of abstraction, and given that so much abstraction needs universals to be done, that this is the fundamental place where the idea of machine intelligence being acquired by something made up of two state transistors falls apart. because, claims made by object oriented programmers aside, I don't know that there is a way to get a computer to understand and work with a universal. you can't reduce a universal to an explicit list of characteristics, which is where the whole problem of universals comes from in the first place. Of course, saying this, its probably important that I qualify it by saying I ascribe to Wittgensteins theory of universals which rejects both nominalism and realism and holds that universals are like family resemblances. Which is to say I may be question begging her because I think from the get go that you can't get at human thought or even human grammar for that matter through a set of explicit rules. At least not on it's own. A couple notes here on why I think this is so: 1.) it is possible for humans to understand the semantic content of expressions that are not well-formed, this is particularly true of native speakers in their first language. something that requires explicit code for decision making or interpretation can't do this and requires error handling algorithms to be able to cope with it. It doesn't seem to me that what humans do with statements that are not wellformed is similar to error handling. Instead we muddle through working on conjecture and intuition and as a result language can sometimes be extended in a way that it doesn't seem that machines would be capable of. A specific example might be the emergence of trade languages, creoles and pidgins in populations where there are many different mutually unintelligible languages spoken. 2.) Humans have an extremely high tolerance for vagueness. In fact, I think vagueness is probably one of the greatest allies of human intelligence. I can say and do all manners of utterly vague things and still expect to be understood and reacted to perfectly. the best example here is probably indexical expressions, something I've been absolutely fascinated with in my poetic practice over the years. that we can do so much with "here, there, this and that" the most non- explicit of symbols we have that we never the less have no trouble working with and using constantly. I think probably it's useful here to distinguish between indexicals and something akin to an algebraic variable. What's important about variables is that while they can have any value or at least any of a set of values in an equation they are also defined by the equation in which they occur, all the symbols of which are explicit, including other variables. Contrast that with the expression "There." Imagine that I'm standing in a room giving some one instructions about where to put a painting. I might say there and point. When I point I'm not defining an explicit place, but rather giving a vague direction which the other person then has no trouble following. In fact i might not even point. If the person and I know each other well enough, they might be able to interpret my meaning based solely on my unconscious body language. There may then be some testing that goes on to get to agreement. The person will hold the painting against the wall and say "here?" At this point an explicit place has been definied by the painting's being there, but it is ONLY defined by the paintings being there, and suppose that the persons hands are shaking and the painting is not in a specific place but rather in a vague portion of the wall. I might then agree and or disagree, and if i disagree give some more vague instructions "up a bit, right a little, left a lot" etc. I think if you compare this to the complex set of instructions that would have to be programmed into a robot to do the same task, you'll get an inkling of where I'm going here. The difference, I don't think at least, is not that humans are making all kinds of calculations and operations subconsciously in following these simple directions, but rather that we have a very high tolerance for vagueness that grows out of the fact that our thinking doesn't use explicit symbols in the way that a machine intelligence would have to. Lots of thought experiments can be found in science fiction about this whenever a machine intelligence is shown to go haywire due to it's inability to cope with vague instructions resulting from circumstances its not programmed to cope with or an over literal interpretation of vague instructions given to it. On Jan 20, 2009, at 11:18 PM, Jim Andrews wrote: >> I get the analogy that yr making Jim, I just think it's flawed in >> that I don't think it's at all settled that the thinking mechanism >> of the brain works through the manipulation of explicit symbols, >> which is what software does. > > i think that's an interesting point, jason. let's explore it. > > if we look in a computer, we won't find any zeros and ones. merely > transistors that are charged (1) or not charged (0). also, if we > compare the source code (which won't run) written by a human in, > say, C++ with the compiled machine language version of the source > code (which will run), we would see there is no one-to-one > correspondence between the symbols in the source code and the > binary symbols in the machine language version. the source code > gets converted to machine language in the process of 'compilation', > creating a file that will run, and this process converts the > humanly authored file into a strange binary beast that can be fed > to a central processor, which is really quite limited in its > operations. this is code level stuff. but, still, the symbols are > explicit. > > computers have to be intelligable, nonetheless, to humans. there's > weird code zipping around, but all in explicit symbols that have to > be humanly intelligable. of course, the inner workings of the brain > do not have to be humanly intelligable. or intelligable to any > sentient being. but they do have to help the critter survive. there > has to be some consistency and integrity to the way the brain deals > with sense data. so it's hard to see how the brain might not code > the egg foo yong in some sort of set of symbols that remain stable > over time. > > of course, we know that the body does indeed deal with codes of > some kinds. dna, for instance. the ribozome reads the dna sequence > in a c t g code much like a computer reads an input string. the > ribozome is like a computer that we would very much like to > understand the program for. the a c t g code does appear to be a > set of explicit symbols. now, this doesn't mean that the brain > operates this way also, but we understand that for information to > be stored and processed in a consistent manner, explicit symbols > are very useful. > > do you have any ideas of how one might avoid explicit symbols? > > by the way, i make the best chow mein on the planet. > > ja > http://vispo.com > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/ > welcome.html Jason Quackenbush jfq@myuw.net ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 02:07:57 -0800 Reply-To: amyhappens@yahoo.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: amy king Subject: Reminder Tonight, Friday - Berkson, Cruz, Fagan, Fortin, Pecqueur, Rasmovicz Comments: To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable January 30th @ 7 p.m. - Stain Bar - Williamsburg , Brooklyn=20 =A0=20 *Bill Berkson, Cindy Cruz, Aaron Fagan, Jennifer Fortin, Jean-Paul Pecqueur and Bill Rasmovicz*=20 =A0=20 * Hosted by Amy King and Ana Bozicevic=20 =A0=20 ~~~~=20 =A0=20 Bill Berkson was born in New York in 1939. A poet, critic, teacher, and sometime curator, he moved to Northern California=20 in 1970 and during the next decade edited a series of little magazines and books under the Big Sky imprint. From 1984 to 2008 he was a professor of Liberal Arts at the San Francisco Art Institute. He is a corresponding edit= or for Art in America=20 and has contributed reviews and essays to such other journals as Aperture, Artforum, Works on Paper and Modern Painters. His recent books of poetry include Gloria (in a deluxe limited edition with etchings by Alex Katz), Ou= r Friends Will Pass Among You Silently, and Goods and Services. Other books include a collection of his criticism, The Sweet Singer of Modernism & Other Art Writings: 1985-2003; Sudden Address: Selected lectures 1981-2006;= an epistolary collaboration with Bernadette Mayer entitled What=92s Your Idea = of a Good Time?: Interviews & Letters 1977-1985. His Portrait and Dream: New & Selected Poems will appear form Coffee House Press in 2009. Berkson was the 2006 Distinguished Mellon Fellow at the Skowhegan School of Painting an= d Sculpture and received the 2008 Goldie for Literature from the San Francisc= o Bay Guardian. He now lives in New York and San Francisco .=20 =A0=20 ~~~=20 =A0=20 Cynthia Cruz is the author of RUIN, published by Alice James Books in 2006. Her poems have been published or are forthcoming in the Amer= ican Poetry Review, Paris Review, Boston Review, AGNI, FIELD, and others and are anthologized in =93The Iowa Anthology of New American Poetries.=94 She has = received fellowships to YADDO and the MacDowell Colony. She lives in Greenpoint, Brooklyn and teaches at Sarah=20 Lawrence College .=20 =A0=20 ~~~=20 =A0=20 Aaron Fagan was born in Rochester , New York , in 1973. His poems have appeared in numerous magazines including The Americ= an Poetry Review, TriQuarterly, and The Yale Review. He is the author of Garag= e (Salt Publishing, 2007), a debut collection which the critic Harold Bloom described as =93vivid and aesthetically disturbing work. His promise is considerable because his originality should prove to be decisive.=94 A form= er Assistant Editor for Poetry, he is now a Copy Editor for Scientific America= n in New York City and lives in the Bronx .=20 =A0=20 =A0=20 ~~~=20 =A0=20 Jennifer H. Fortin lives in Brooklyn . She works as an Assistant. In May 2008, she obtained an M.F.A. in Poetry fr= om The New School. Her work has appeared in TYPO, GlitterPony, Left Facing Bir= d, The Goucher Quarterly, AbroadView magazine and Ducts; it is forthcoming in Court Green, Action, Yes and Copper Nickel. She was a Finalist for the Poet= ry Foundation=92s 2008 Ruth Lilly Fellowship and the recipient of an Honorable Mention in the 2008 Poets & Writers-sponsored Amy Awards. Fortin is happy to be able to say she is a Returned Peace Corps Volunteer (Bulgaria 2004-20= 06).=20 =A0=20 ~~~=20 =A0=20 Jean-Paul Pecqueur=92s first book, The Case Against Happiness, was published by Alice James Books in 2006. New poems have recently appeare= d in The Hat, Cranky, and Gulf=20 Coast . Jean-Paul currently lives in Brooklyn , teaching writing at the Pratt Institute.=20 =A0=20 ~~~=20 =A0=20 Bill Rasmovicz has served as a literary excursion leader and workshop co-leader throughout Italy , Croatia , Slovenia , Switzerland=20 and Wales . His work has appeared in Hotel Amerika, Nimrod, Third Coast=20 and other magazines. His first book, =93The World in Place of Itself=94 was published in 2007 by Alice James Books and was also the 2008 recipient of t= he New England Poetry Club=92s Sheila Margaret Motton Prize.=20 =A0=20 ~~~=20 =A0=20 stain=20 766 grand street=20 brooklyn, ny 11211=20 (L train to Grand Street ,=20 1 block west)=20 718/387-7840=20 open daily @ 5 p.m.=20 =A0=20 =A0=20 Hope to see you there!=20 =A0=20 Amy and Ana=20 http://stainofpoetry.wordpress.com/=20 =A0=20 _______ Amy's Alias http://amyking.org/=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 18:18:20 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Poetry Project Subject: A message from The Poetry Project Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Dear Friends, We are very sad to announce that George Schneeman has passed away. The Poetry Project and its community has lost a beloved friend and a great artist. People who are interested in attending the funeral may write to info@poetryproject.com for details. Upcoming Events: Monday, February 2, 8 PM Open Reading Sign-in at 7:45 Wednesday, February 4, 8 PM Anne Boyer & Stephanie Strickland Anne Boyer is the author of The Romance of Happy Workers (Coffee House, 2008), Art is War (Mitzvah Chaps 2008), Selected Dreams with a Note on Phrenology (Dusie 2007), and Anne Boyer's Good Apocalypse (Effing Press 2006). She lives in Kansas and teaches at the Kansas City Art Institute. Stephanie Strickland=B9s fifth book of poems, Zone : Zero (book + CD), was just published by Ahsahta Press. Her latest collaborative hypermedia work, which she will read from, was introduced in Paris and shown at the Zaoem poetry festival in Ghent. She teaches experimental poetry and e-lit at many colleges and universities, most recently the University of Utah, and is working on a book-length sequence of poems, =B3Huracan=B9s Harp.=B2 Friday, February 6, 9:30 PM Fall Workshop Reading Come and hear what the writers who took workshops with Martine Bellen, Tisa Bryant, and CAConrad are up to! Workshop leaders will be present to introduce their students. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html