========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 16:58:40 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Al Filreis Subject: PoemTalk #26 - Vachel Lindsay Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Today we are releasing PoemTalk episode #26, a discussion of Vachel Lindsay's "The Congo" (part one) with Aldon Neilsen, Michelle Taransky and Charles Bernstein: http://www.poemtalk.org Al Filreis Kelly Professor Faculty Dir., Kelly Writers House Dir., Center for Programs in Contemporary Writing University of Pennsylvania on the web: http://writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis blog: http://writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis/blog PoemTalk: http://www.poemtalk.org get your daily Al: http://bit.ly/1UCfRp ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 14:09:41 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve russell Subject: Re: unorthodox vs.innovative poetry In-Reply-To: <3F4B61AC55194A85B345BC809F2F0FCA@OwnerPC> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii not sure where the written word can go without some assistance. visual poetry/the whole computer generated thing. I'm not so sure that the word is 53 years behind, but it is inherently conservative in some respects. the word is always character driven, even poetry: character in poetry is the voice or the persona, the mask of any given speaker. the eye & the ear are promiscious. the word chains one to the page. ________________________________ From: Jim Andrews To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Mon, November 30, 2009 2:50:24 AM Subject: Re: unorthodox vs.innovative poetry > corrected a friend recently. Why call poetry that breaks from conventions innovative when it's actually unorthodox. & i nominate EE Cummings as the one poet who was innovative/unorthodox/ and popular as... as a singular poet, perhaps the ONE enlish speaking poet of the 20th century who managed t inovation and was also unorthodox & popular. whether it's innovative depends on the nature of the breaks from convention. or is there orthodox innovation? if there is, does it matter? innovation necessarily involves breaks with convention or there is merely invention. ja http://vispo.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 05:07:47 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve russell Subject: Re: orthodox innovation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii perhaps in any school of thought, any particular mannerism, there's orthodox innovation. People are still toying around with pop art. Maybe alien abduction folk have discovered something truely new. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 12:47:23 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ian Randall Wilson Subject: New Poetry Chapbooks In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" New poetry chapbooks from Steve Orlen and Dean Young. http://www.hollyridgepress.com/chapseries.htm Ian Wilson Hollyridge Press =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 13:40:57 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Laura Hinton Subject: REMINDER: Jayne Cortez reading in NYC Wednesday, Dec. 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable REMINDER .... > InterRUPTions > > *An Experimental Writers Series* > > will be hosting a reading by > > > *Jayne Cortez* > > *Wednesday, Dec. 2, 2009* > > *7 p.m.* > > Room 6/316 (The Rifkind Room) > > The City College of New York > > North Academic Complex (NAC)* > > 137th St. and Amsterdam Ave. > > *New York City* > > *Jayne Cortez* is the author of twelve books of poetry and performer of > her poems with music on nine recordings. Her voice is celebrated for its > political dynamic, innovations in lyricism, and visceral sound. She is > recipient of several awards including the Arts International and the > National Endowment for the Arts. Her most recent books include *The > Beautiful Book* (Bola Press 2007) and *On The Imperial Highway* (2009). = Her > latest CDs with the Fire-spitter Band are "Find Your Own Voice" and "Bord= ers > of Disorderly Time." She is co/founder and president of the Organization > of Women Writers of Africa, Inc., and can be seen on screen in the films = *Women > In Jazz* *and Poetry In Motion*. > > * * > > *The InterRUPTions series is free and open to the public. Q & A with > author follows the reading. Refreshments will be served.* > > ------------- > > *This event is funded in part by Poets & Writers, Inc. through a grant it > has received from Poets & Writers, Inc. It is sponsored by the Departmen= t > of English at the City College of New York and the CCNY Rifkind Center. F= or > information on the InterRUPTions reading series, contact CCNY Professor > Laura Hinton: laurahinton12@yahoo.com. * > > _______________ > > ** DIRECTIONS to CCNY: In Manhattan, take the 1/9 subway line to 137thStr= eet. > Walk up the hill to Amsterdam Avenue. Enter the NAC Building at the > Amsterdam level=92s south entrance. Inform security personnel at the doo= r > you are attending the poetry reading, and take the escalator to the 6thFl= oor. > * > > > > > --=20 Laura Hinton Professor of English City College of New York 138 at Convent Ave. New York, New York 10031 http://www.mermaidtenementpress.com http://www.chantdelasirene.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 08:52:09 -1000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Susan Webster Schultz Subject: Tinfish Pre-Publication Sale MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tinfish Press is pleased to announce forthcoming publication of two wonderful books, Kaia Sand's _Remember to Wave_ and Elizabeth Soto's _Eulogies_. Please find details about the books and the deals here: http://tinfisheditor.blogspot.com/2009/11/tinfish-pre-publication-sale-please.html While you're there, check out other posts on the Tinfish Editor Blog. Tinfish books make excellent holiday gifts. aloha, Susan -- Susan M. Schultz Editor, Tinfish Press www.tinfishpress.com http://tinfisheditor.blogspot.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:12:01 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Obododimma Oha Subject: Fwd: [Ederi] Fogged Clarity, December 2009 Issue In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Fogged Clarity , December 2009 published. - Hide quoted text - www.foggedclarity.com In perhaps our finest issue yet, poet Bob Holman joins me to discuss the state of the medium he loves, we stream Olivia Broadfield's electro-pop debut *Eyes Wide Open*, Terry Sanville and J. Andersen share powerful new fiction, Scott Hightower reviews Randall Mann, poet Andrew De Haan strikes poignant chords, Ivan Suta photographs ghosts, healer Simon Bresler saves a life, and much more. -- Executive Editor, "Fogged Clarity" www.foggedclarity.com Ben Evans __._,_.___ __,_._,___ -- Obododimma Oha http://udude.wordpress.com/ Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & Fellow, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604; +234 808 264 8060. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 14:16:27 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: CA Conrad Subject: (Jim Brodey) CONFETTI ALLEGIANCE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 (Soma)tic Poetry #36: CONFETTI ALLEGIANCE http://somaticpoetryexercises.blogspot.com/ -- PhillySound: new poetry http://PhillySound.blogspot.com THE BOOK OF FRANK by CAConrad http://CAConrad.blogspot.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:19:09 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Adam Fieled Subject: PFS Post: Jeffrey Side on Visual Poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jeffrey Side's new essay, "The Semantic Limitations of Visual Poetry," is o= n PFS Post: =A0 http://www.artrecess.blogspot.com =A0 Enjoy, and happy holidays. =A0 Adam Fieled=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:55:51 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Samuel Wharton Subject: sawbuck 3.4, winter 2009/2010 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 friends! another season has rolled around & with it comes a new issue of Sawbuckfeaturing this amazing cast of characters: Allan Peterson Becca Klaver Daniel Borzutsky George Kalamaras Ian Ganassi Kathleen Rooney Lisa Ciccarello Martha Silano Robert Lietz Sandy Longhorn please come on over & enjoy! cheerily ~samuel wharton, editor ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 13:12:07 -0500 Reply-To: az421@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Rob McLennan Subject: an interview with me on recent fiction & non-fiction projects, conducted by Kingston author Susan Olding; http://susanolding.com/site/an-interview-with-rob-mclennan/ rob -- writer/editor/publisher ...STANZAS mag, above/ground press & Chaudiere Books (www.chaudierebooks.com) ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...poetry - a compact of words (Salmon) ...2nd novel - missing persons www.abovegroundpress.blogspot.com * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 07:34:51 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Comments: RFC822 error: Invalid RFC822 field - "Please don’t take another long drag on your ciggie and nonchalan=". Rest of header flushed. From: amy king Subject: I will not go gently into that good night -- "The Weenie Roast =?utf-8?Q?=E2=80=93_Ingredients=3F_Not_How_Long=2C_But_What=E2=80=99s_?= =?utf-8?Q?in_It=E2=80=A6=22?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0APlease don=E2=80=99t take another long drag on your ciggie and nonchalan= tly claim that the editors of Publisher=E2=80=99s Weekly didn=E2=80=99t kno= w they were selecting books solely by men for their Top 10 Best Books of 20= 09. I will hurl dragon fire and burn your little house of cards down. One = need only peruse the =E2=80=9Cbrief reviews=E2=80=9D of each book selected = to understand that no conscious being, sucking smoke or drinking coffee, co= uld have been under the misperception that these books were not male-driven= =E2=80=94 the subject matter of each top ten book is undoubtedly male-cent= ered, save the one collection of short stories. The content of each book = is pure masculine mode (mostly written by men, though women write for purel= y male interests infrequently): adventure, problem solving through violenc= e, the sole focus of traditionally-defined masculine protagonists and their= exploits, etc. Not only does this list avoid celebrating and promoting = women=E2=80=99s stories and modes of being, thinking and exploration, but it doesn=E2=80=99t offer any alternat= ive male narratives that veer from the business-as-usual masculine concerns= of war, adventure, and typical exploits such as who=E2=80=99s shagging who= m or who discovered what element before the other guy did. And while this = list is only one, it is indicative of a whole history that excludes, tokeni= zes, and downplays women=E2=80=99s writing.=0A=0A=0A=E2=80=9CBut it=E2=80= =99s just a list of books!=E2=80=9D --Continued here: http://amyking.wo= rdpress.com/2009/12/02/the-weenie-roast-=E2=80=93-ingredients-not-how-long-= but-what=E2=80=99s-in-it=E2=80=A6/=0A=0A=0A_______=0A=0ANEW BOOK=0ASlaves t= o Do These Things -- http://www.blazevox.org/bk-ak3.htm =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 15:36:54 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jim Andrews Subject: A new dbCinema series MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit GUESS THE HALLUCINATION http://vispo.com/dbcinema/angkorwat I've been developing the text nib in dbCinema, the graphic synthesizer/langu(im)age processor I'm writing. And produced the above series of 256 images (1100x900) with it. For five revelations per second, can you tell me the search term used to fetch the pictures from the Internet used in this series? I also wrote an essay on related matters that appears at the above URL. A sample from it: "William S. Burroughs observed that cutting up cutups didn't seem to work as well as doing cutups of more intelligible material. The reason why is not far to seek. Cutups normally operate around the level of the phrase. The level/length of the phrase can be associated with a higher level of semantic intelligibility than a level/length/string half the size. Consequently, the semantic intelligibility of cutups of cutups should normally be about half that of cutups of more intelligible material. This logic suggests that collage/montage/cutup techniques can be analyzed, in this case, somewhat quantitatively in terms of intelligibility vs unintelligibility or, in the case of dbCinema, representation vs abstraction, as well as intelligibility vs unintelligibility. Only here we are dealing with the semantics of images rather than of natural language..." ja ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 00:14:20 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Doug Holder Subject: Residency in the Asylum: Poets at McLean Hospital Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Doug Holder to teach: Residencies at the Asylum: Poets at McLean Hospital= / Newton Community Education / Starting Jan 12, 2010 http://poetsattheasylum.blogspot.com To register for "...Poets at McLean Hospital" contact: Newton Community Education http://newtoncommunityed.org 360 Lowell Ave Newton, MA 02460-1831 (617) 559-6999 McLean Hospital ( Belmont, Mass.) is known as a top shelf psychiatric hospital with Harvard faculty psychiatrists, groundbreaking research, etc= ... But it also has been a residency of sorts for poets such as Sylvia Plath,= Robert Lowell, and Anne Sexton. Poet Doug Holder worked at McLean Hospita= l for 27 years and ran poetry groups for patients for over a decade. He has= interviewed the social worker for Plath and Sexton as well as the manager= of Anne Sexton's rock band, he wrote an introduction to Lowell's classic poe= m about the hospital "Waking In the Blue" for Robert Pinsky's anthology "America's Favorite Poems", he was interviewed by Boston Globe columnist Alex Beam for material for his controversial book "Gracefully Insane" and= has talked to many others who provided a trove of anecdotes about these renowned and tragic poets. In this course we will cover McLean Hospital a= s a muse for their poetry, and the experience of these poets in the "Asylum."= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 08:09:36 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mary Kasimor Subject: a peace literature class MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I teach a war literature class, and now I am thinking that a peace literatu= re class would be good. (My war lit. is actually an anti-war lit. class.) I= am trying to think of literature and films that somehow look at peace. Mar= tin Luther King and Thoreau come to mind.=A0I am not thinking about peace a= s only an absence of war, but I also want to think about civil disobedience= and conflict resolution, or any other way that peace can be considered. A = woman's perspective would be wonderful. =A0 Does anyone have any ideas--poetry would be grand, too, although my student= s struggle with poetry.=20 =A0 Thank you for any ideas that you may have. =A0 Mary Kasimor=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 11:30:08 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Sara Wintz Subject: SEGUE Reading Series = Ariana Reines + Corina Copp !! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SEGUE READING SERIES @ THE BOWERY POETRY CLUB kicks back into gear this weekend with: ARIANA REINES + CORINA COPP ARIANA REINES is the author of *The Cow *and* Coeur de Lion.* Her first play, Telephone, ran last February at the Cherry Lane Theatre. CORINA COPP is the author of the* e-book Carpeted,* and chapbooks *Play Air= *and *Sometimes* Inspired by Marguerite. A staged reading of her performance text, =93OK=94 was produced in 2008 by Theatreworks, and her play =93A Week of Kindness=94 appeared in the 2007 Ti= ny Theater Festival. She is the editor of *The Poetry Project Newsletter.* Saturday, December 5th 4-6 PM at The Bowery Poetry Club 308 Bowery, just north of Houston $6 admission goes to readers The Segue Reading Series is made possible by the support of The Segue Foundation. Visit seguefoundation.com, bowerypoetry.com, or call (212) 614-0505 for mor= e information. Dec/Jan Segue Readings are curated by Thom Donovan and Sara Wintz. UP NEXT: December 12 Alan Bernheimer + Danny Snelson December 19 Fiona Templeton + M. Mara Ann January 9 Judith Goldman + Adam Pendleton January 16 *M=F3nica de la Torre* + Fred Moten January 23 Bruce Boone + Rob Halpern January 30 David Larsen + Samantha Gile =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 12:58:38 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: A new dbCinema series In-Reply-To: <22C494B9935F47E5AE7B71A437C85BD3@OwnerPC> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Dear Jim, I have watched Guess the Hallucination series. I had spent a number of days at Angkor Wat region two years ago, the place from parts of which all the images in GTH series seem to be taken. Perhaps more than anything else this series crystalised for me the reasons for my deep dissatisfaction with works which essentially collages images or words lifted/gleaned from the internet. There is such an abyss between GTH and the physical experience of the place -the heat, the arduous walk in multiple days it takes to see the temples, the clash between Hindu and Buddhist ideologies embodied in the carvings and statues in them, the political and historical rootedness of these images, the stunning realization that the Buddha "smile" one is familiar with is arrived at by a slight "tweaking" through a period of about two hundred years of the "frown" in Vishna's face, both its ideological rival and ancestor, the spectacle of the continuous juxtaposition of art of great beauty with ruins, crumbling walls, protruding tree trunks through windows, occasionally truncated, gigantic Buddha statues, all making me think of Walter Benjamin's "Naples" and *The Arcades Project*, lovely, green stagnant water covered with leaves. The continuous disbelief, as one is walking in the area, that such a space -a space of dreams as a thread of time- could have a physical existence, as if being told Santa Claus really existed and finding it is true. The hallucinatory power of Angkor Wat is multiple times greater than the one achieved through the maniplulation of internet images in Gues the Hallucination. The former requires a walk through often unbearable heat, over irregular bouldered paths, one to become a "flaneur" going through concrete time in the absorption of things. What one has in GTH, it seems to me, is the reverse, a shuffling of flat replicas, at high speed, drawing attention to its own "artistry," the "art" or the "literature" it is creating. I can understand very well the power of the act/gesture which puts a moustache on Leonardo's Mona Lisa or defaces it by slashing it -temples in Angkor Wat are replete with defaced images of Vishna which occurred when a Buddhist king took over the temple.- But to put a moustache on a reproduction of Leonardo's Mona Lisa is something else. It has to me a touch of the ridiculous or perhaps, if the awareness of this ridiculousness is present, it may become a piece of conceptual art... Ciao, Murat On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 6:36 PM, Jim Andrews wrote: > GUESS THE HALLUCINATION > http://vispo.com/dbcinema/angkorwat > > I've been developing the text nib in dbCinema, the graphic > synthesizer/langu(im)age processor I'm writing. And produced the above > series of 256 images (1100x900) with it. > > For five revelations per second, can you tell me the search term used to > fetch the pictures from the Internet used in this series? > > I also wrote an essay on related matters that appears at the above URL. A > sample from it: > > "William S. Burroughs observed that cutting up cutups didn't seem to work > as well as doing cutups of more intelligible material. The reason why is not > far to seek. Cutups normally operate around the level of the phrase. The > level/length of the phrase can be associated with a higher level of semantic > intelligibility than a level/length/string half the size. Consequently, the > semantic intelligibility of cutups of cutups should normally be about half > that of cutups of more intelligible material. > > This logic suggests that collage/montage/cutup techniques can be analyzed, > in this case, somewhat quantitatively in terms of intelligibility vs > unintelligibility or, in the case of dbCinema, representation vs > abstraction, as well as intelligibility vs unintelligibility. Only here we > are dealing with the semantics of images rather than of natural language..." > > ja > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 13:01:18 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: CA Conrad Subject: This is NOT a complicated issue, you're either for war or against it. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 This is NOT a complicated issue, you're either for war or against it. THIS IS FOR GAY AND STRAIGHT PEOPLE! "GAYS AGAINST GAYS IN THE MILITARY" You can find the way to the online petition of demands which will be shown to LGBT community leaders and media by going here: http://invasionanniversary.blogspot.com From Philadelphia, where a new, more beautiful revolution is in store! CAConrad -- PhillySound: new poetry http://PhillySound.blogspot.com THE BOOK OF FRANK by CAConrad http://CAConrad.blogspot.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 13:02:06 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: A new dbCinema series In-Reply-To: <1dec21ae0912020958j51b7c47fyf24346d1e2c9be7c@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Alice finally said to the Queen, "you are just a pack of cards." Ciao, Murat On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > Dear Jim, > > I have watched Guess the Hallucination series. I had spent a number of days > at Angkor Wat region two years ago, the place from parts of which all the > images in GTH series seem to be taken. Perhaps more than anything else this > series crystalised for me the reasons for my deep dissatisfaction with works > which essentially collages images or words lifted/gleaned from the internet. > There is such an abyss between GTH and the physical experience of the place > -the heat, the arduous walk in multiple days it takes to see the temples, > the clash between Hindu and Buddhist ideologies embodied in the carvings and > statues in them, the political and historical rootedness of these images, > the stunning realization that the Buddha "smile" one is familiar with is > arrived at by a slight "tweaking" through a period of about two hundred > years of the "frown" in Vishna's face, both its ideological rival and > ancestor, the spectacle of the continuous juxtaposition of art of great > beauty with ruins, crumbling walls, protruding tree trunks through windows, > occasionally truncated, gigantic Buddha statues, all making me think of > Walter Benjamin's "Naples" and *The Arcades Project*, lovely, green > stagnant water covered with leaves. The continuous disbelief, as one is > walking in the area, that such a space -a space of dreams as a thread of > time- could have a physical existence, as if being told Santa Claus really > existed and finding it is true. The hallucinatory power of Angkor Wat is > multiple times greater than the one achieved through the maniplulation of > internet images in Gues the Hallucination. The former requires a walk > through often unbearable heat, over irregular bouldered paths, one to become > a "flaneur" going through concrete time in the absorption of things. What > one has in GTH, it seems to me, is the reverse, a shuffling of flat > replicas, at high speed, drawing attention to its own "artistry," the "art" > or the "literature" it is creating. > > I can understand very well the power of the act/gesture which puts a > moustache on Leonardo's Mona Lisa or defaces it by slashing it -temples in > Angkor Wat are replete with defaced images of Vishna which occurred when a > Buddhist king took over the temple.- But to put a moustache on a > reproduction of Leonardo's Mona Lisa is something else. It has to me a touch > of the ridiculous or perhaps, if the awareness of this ridiculousness is > present, it may become a piece of conceptual art... > > Ciao, > > Murat > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 6:36 PM, Jim Andrews wrote: > >> GUESS THE HALLUCINATION >> http://vispo.com/dbcinema/angkorwat >> >> I've been developing the text nib in dbCinema, the graphic >> synthesizer/langu(im)age processor I'm writing. And produced the above >> series of 256 images (1100x900) with it. >> >> For five revelations per second, can you tell me the search term used to >> fetch the pictures from the Internet used in this series? >> >> I also wrote an essay on related matters that appears at the above URL. A >> sample from it: >> >> "William S. Burroughs observed that cutting up cutups didn't seem to work >> as well as doing cutups of more intelligible material. The reason why is not >> far to seek. Cutups normally operate around the level of the phrase. The >> level/length of the phrase can be associated with a higher level of semantic >> intelligibility than a level/length/string half the size. Consequently, the >> semantic intelligibility of cutups of cutups should normally be about half >> that of cutups of more intelligible material. >> >> This logic suggests that collage/montage/cutup techniques can be analyzed, >> in this case, somewhat quantitatively in terms of intelligibility vs >> unintelligibility or, in the case of dbCinema, representation vs >> abstraction, as well as intelligibility vs unintelligibility. Only here we >> are dealing with the semantics of images rather than of natural language..." >> >> ja >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 15:43:46 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve russell Subject: Re: Residency in the Asylum: Poets at McLean Hospital In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii a text of possible interest for the course: Surviving Literay Suicide by Jeffrey Berman. & the book begins with a quote from Frank Zappa: I think we ought to read only the kind of books that wound and stab us. If the book we're reading doesn't wake us up with a blow on the head, whaat are we reading for? So that it will make us happy, as you write? Good Lord, we would be happy precisely if we had no books, and the kind of books that make us happy are the kind we could write ourselves if we had to.But we need the books that affect us like a disaster, that grieve us deeply, like the death of someone we love more than ourselves, like being banished into forests far from everyone, like a suicide. A book must be the axe for the frozen sea inside us. ________________________________ From: Doug Holder To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Tue, December 1, 2009 9:14:20 PM Subject: Residency in the Asylum: Poets at McLean Hospital Doug Holder to teach: Residencies at the Asylum: Poets at McLean Hospital / Newton Community Education / Starting Jan 12, 2010 http://poetsattheasylum.blogspot.com To register for "...Poets at McLean Hospital" contact: Newton Community Education http://newtoncommunityed.org 360 Lowell Ave Newton, MA 02460-1831 (617) 559-6999 McLean Hospital ( Belmont, Mass.) is known as a top shelf psychiatric hospital with Harvard faculty psychiatrists, groundbreaking research, etc... But it also has been a residency of sorts for poets such as Sylvia Plath, Robert Lowell, and Anne Sexton. Poet Doug Holder worked at McLean Hospital for 27 years and ran poetry groups for patients for over a decade. He has interviewed the social worker for Plath and Sexton as well as the manager of Anne Sexton's rock band, he wrote an introduction to Lowell's classic poem about the hospital "Waking In the Blue" for Robert Pinsky's anthology "America's Favorite Poems", he was interviewed by Boston Globe columnist Alex Beam for material for his controversial book "Gracefully Insane" and has talked to many others who provided a trove of anecdotes about these renowned and tragic poets. In this course we will cover McLean Hospital as a muse for their poetry, and the experience of these poets in the "Asylum." ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 15:53:24 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve russell Subject: Fw: Residency in the Asylum: Poets at McLean Hospital In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ughhhh, correction: Franz Kafka. ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: steve russell To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sent: Wed, December 2, 2009 3:43:46 PM Subject: Re: Residency in the Asylum: Poets at McLean Hospital a text of possible interest for the course: Surviving Literay Suicide by Jeffrey Berman. & the book begins with a quote from Frank Zappa: I think we ought to read only the kind of books that wound and stab us. If the book we're reading doesn't wake us up with a blow on the head, whaat are we reading for? So that it will make us happy, as you write? Good Lord, we would be happy precisely if we had no books, and the kind of books that make us happy are the kind we could write ourselves if we had to.But we need the books that affect us like a disaster, that grieve us deeply, like the death of someone we love more than ourselves, like being banished into forests far from everyone, like a suicide. A book must be the axe for the frozen sea inside us. ________________________________ From: Doug Holder To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Tue, December 1, 2009 9:14:20 PM Subject: Residency in the Asylum: Poets at McLean Hospital Doug Holder to teach: Residencies at the Asylum: Poets at McLean Hospital / Newton Community Education / Starting Jan 12, 2010 http://poetsattheasylum.blogspot.com To register for "...Poets at McLean Hospital" contact: Newton Community Education http://newtoncommunityed.org 360 Lowell Ave Newton, MA 02460-1831 (617) 559-6999 McLean Hospital ( Belmont, Mass.) is known as a top shelf psychiatric hospital with Harvard faculty psychiatrists, groundbreaking research, etc... But it also has been a residency of sorts for poets such as Sylvia Plath, Robert Lowell, and Anne Sexton. Poet Doug Holder worked at McLean Hospital for 27 years and ran poetry groups for patients for over a decade. He has interviewed the social worker for Plath and Sexton as well as the manager of Anne Sexton's rock band, he wrote an introduction to Lowell's classic poem about the hospital "Waking In the Blue" for Robert Pinsky's anthology "America's Favorite Poems", he was interviewed by Boston Globe columnist Alex Beam for material for his controversial book "Gracefully Insane" and has talked to many others who provided a trove of anecdotes about these renowned and tragic poets. In this course we will cover McLean Hospital as a muse for their poetry, and the experience of these poets in the "Asylum." ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 17:28:37 +1100 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: John Tranter Subject: Announcing Jacket 39 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Announcing Jacket 38 -- Late 2009: http://jacketmagazine.com/38/index.shtml Jonathan Williams -- Niedecker -- H.D. -- Blaser -- Dorn -- Geoffrey Hill -- Bei Dao A free internet literary magazine -- Interviews -- Reviews -- Articles -- Poems Editor: John Tranter :::::: Associate Editor: Pam Brown Writers previously published in Jacket (only) may submit material. We only have time to read for Jacket in June, July and January: please don't send material out of season. "You were talking of continuing fashions and of course you see these periods come and go. If you lived through the Leavis era, you'd know what it was like for a whole doctrine of literature to be created, defended and lost. There are very few Leavisites now, as you know. There was a time when every grammar school had a Leavisite English master." -- Frank Kermode, 2009, in conversation with Tom Bailey, in The Literateur ================================ Articles [>>>] Photographer Robert Adams: Frish Brandt in conversation with Noel King, 2008 [>>>] Cralan: I Once Met [>>>] Graham Foust: Resisting Print: Jack Spicer's Lecturature [>>>] Gloria Frym: Lorine Niedecker's Plain (Language) [>>>] Matthew Gagnon: Carmen Perpetuum: Robin Blaser's Continuous Song [>>>] Genevieve Kaplan: How we read Caroline Bergvall's "Via" and Why we should care [>>>] Travis Macdonald: A Brief History of Erasure Poetics [>>>] Dipti Saravanamuttu: Some Aspects of the Tetragrammaton: on Geoffrey Hill [>>>] Kyle Waugh: "You Are Sometimes in the Trance of What Is Beyond You": Upheaval, Incantation and Ed Dorn in the Summer of 1968 ================================ Reviews [>>>] Anselm Berrigan, "To Hell with Sleep", reviewed by Sophie Sills [>>>] Anne Blonstein: "Correspondence with Nobody", reviewed by Maria Damon [>>>] Pat Boran: "New and Selected Poems", reviewed by Sarah Linke [>>>] Michael Boughn: "22 Skidoo/Sub Transactions", reviewed by Patrick James Dunagan [>>>] David Buuck: "The Shunt", reviewed by Stan Apps [>>>] Johan de Wit: "Up To You Munro", reviewed by Will Rowe [>>>] Dolores Dorantes: sexoPURO sexoVELOZ / Septiembre: A Bilingual Edition of Books Two and Three of "Dolores Dorantes;" Translated by Jen Hofer, reviewed by Christopher Winks [>>>] Ulla E. Dydo, with William Rice: "Gertrude Stein: The Language That Rises, 1923-1934", reviewed by Logan Esdale [>>>] Lawrence Giffin: "Get the F### Back Into That Burning Plane", reviewed by Stan Apps [>>>] Mary Kasimor: "Silk String Arias", reviewed by Robert Zamsky [>>>] Yusef Komunyakaa: "Warhorses", Reviewed by Brett Strickland [>>>] Heller Levinson: "Smelling Mary", reviewed by Leigh Herrick [>>>] Rachel Loden: "Dick of the Dead", reviewed by Tad Richards [>>>] Joseph Massey: "Areas of Fog", reviewed by Rob Stanton [>>>] Ian Seed: "Anonymous Intruder", reviewed by: Virginia Konchan [>>>] Rodrigo Toscano: "Collapsible Poetics Theater", reviewed by Natalie Knight [>>>] Sara Veglahn, "Another Random Heart", reviewed by Sophie Sills [>>>] Eliot Weinberger: "Oranges and Peanuts for Sale", reviewed by Jeffrey Errington [>>>] Susan Wheeler: Assorted Poems, reviewed by Will Cordeiro ================================ Poems [>>>] Bob Arnold: My Sweetest Friend [>>>] Bei Dao: Four poems; Translated by Clayton Eshleman and Lucas Klein [>>>] James Byrne: Two poems: From the Sky Parlour / Sanchez de Aldama [>>>] Stephen Collis: poems [>>>] Rachel Blau DuPlessis: Draft 99: Intransitive [>>>] Rachel Blau DuPlessis: Draft 98: Canzone [>>>] E.W. Everett: Four poems: Langley's Body: under the influence of Homer Collyer / Dedicate / 51 Steps: under the influence of Rosalind Franklin / Downing Street [>>>] Liam Ferney: Two poems: Triumph of Will / Push Kick Dreaming [>>>] Jason Harmon: Alette [>>>] Cynthia Hogue: Ars Cora [>>>] Kent Johnson: After Spicer [>>>] Ron Koertge: Three poems: Hades / Persephone / Demeter [>>>] Virginia Konchan: Two poems [>>>] Ben Lerner: Doppler Elegies [>>>] Jamie Lord: A Style for Every Story [>>>] Omar Perez: Four poems from "Common Nonsense" [>>>] David Shapiro: The Birthday of the World [>>>] Hugh Tolhurst: Unfailingly [>>>] Chris Tysh: Our Lady of the Flowers, Echoic [>>>] Mark Young: Four poems from Genji Monogatari ================================ Interviews [>>>] Maxine Chernoff in conversation with Jane Joritz-Nakagawa, 2009 [>>>] John Olson in conversation with Noah Eli Gordon, 2007-2008 [>>>] The Tortoise And The Hare: Dale Smith and Kenneth Goldsmith Parse Slow and Fast Poetries ================================ Feature: Angel Escobar [>>>] Angel Escobar: Three Poems, Translated by Kristin Dykstra [>>>] Pedro Marques de Armas: The great leap outward: On the life and poetry of Angel Escobar ================================ Feature: Jonathan Williams INTRODUCTION: [>>>] Jeffery Beam and Richard Owens: The Lord of Orchards: Jonathan Williams at 80 REMEMBERING: [>>>] Jonathan Williams: A Life in Pictures [>>>] Basil Bunting: Comment on Jonathan Williams [>>>] Dear JW: Erica Van Horn [>>>] James McGarrell: Mountainside Reader; for JW [>>>] Ann McGarrell: Amon cher Stodge [>>>] Anne Midgette: On With It [>>>] Bob Arnold: Swept in with the Rain [>>>] Charles Lambert: Acts of Kindness [>>>] Diana C. Stoll: Jonathan Williams: More Mouth on that Man [>>>] Gary Carden: The Bard of Scaly Mountain [>>>] Harry Gilonis: from Pliny: Naturalis Historia XXVII. xvi 58 [>>>] John Mitzel: Jonathan Williams: An Appreciation [>>>] Michael Rumaker's Last Letter to Jonathan Williams [>>>] Robert Kelly: Colonel Generosity -- Saying Thank You to Jonathan Williams [>>>] Ronald Johnson: A Microscopic/ Telescopic Collage of "The Empire Finals at Verona" [>>>] Simon Cutts: Anglophone Digressions [>>>] Thomas A Clark and Laurie Clark [>>>] Thomas Meyer: Kintsugi -- with a Foreword by Robert Kelly RESPONDING: [>>>] Guy Davenport: Jonathan Williams, Poet [>>>] Charles Olson: For a Man Gone to Stuttgart Who Left an Automobile Behind Him [>>>] Charles Olson: Nota to "Jammin' the Greek Scene" [>>>] Robert Duncan: Preface to Jonathan Williams' "Elegies and Celebrations" [>>>] James Maynard: Some notes on Jonathan Williams and Robert Duncan [>>>] Jed Birmingham: William Burroughs and Jonathan Williams [>>>] David Annwn: Mustard & Evening Primrose, the astringent extravagance of Jonathan Williams' metafours [>>>] Eric Mottram: An Introduction: "Stay In and Use Both Hands" [>>>] Jim Cory: We Were All Beautiful Once (or) Never Bare Your Soul to an Asshole [>>>] Jonathan Greene: Jonathan Williams: Taking Delight In Two Worlds [>>>] Kenneth Irby: "america's largest openair museum" [>>>] Ronald Johnson: Jonathan (Chamberlain) Williams [>>>] Thomas Meyer: JW Gent & Epicurean REVIEWING: [>>>] Jonathan Williams: Image Gallery: 24 photographs by Jonathan Williams [>>>] Richard Deming: Portraying the Contemporary: The Photography of Jonathan Williams [>>>] Vic Brand: Burr, Salvage, Yoke RECOLLECTING: [>>>] James Jaffe: Jonathan Williams, Jargonaut [>>>] Kyle Schlesinger: The Jargon Society [>>>] Tom Patterson: If You Can Kill a Snake with It, It Ain't Art: The Art History of a Maverick Poet-Publisher [>>>] Michael Basinski: Some Facts and Some Memories: The Jargon Society Archive at the Poetry Collection State University of New York at Buffalo [>>>] Dale Smith: Devotion to "The Strange": Jonathan Williams and the Small Press [>>>] Jonathan Williams in conversation with Richard Owens,1 June 2007 [>>>] Robert J. Bertholf: The Jargon Society and Contemporary Literary History [This feature will be complete in late December 2009.] ================================ Feature: H.D. [>>>] H.D. Feature: Editor's Introduction: H.D. and the Image by Kristina Marie Darling [>>>] H.D.' s Crucible of Fire, by Nancy McGuire Roche [>>>] H.D., Imagiste: Mary Ann Sullivan in Conversation with Lisa Stewart [>>>] Nephie Christodoulides: Beyond Sea Garden: Hermes and the Rose [>>>] Daniele Pantano: Between Stations of the Metro [>>>] Two images by Amy Evans [>>>] Donna J. Gelagotis Lee: Two poems [>>>] Gretchen Steele Pratt: Three poems [>>>] Angela Sorby: The Suburban Mysteries ================================ John Tranter: 39 Short Street, Balmain 2041, Australia http://johntranter.com/ http://jacketmagazine.com/ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 00:23:24 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve russell Subject: Re: I will not go gently into that good night -- "The Weenie Roast =?utf-8?Q?=E2=80=93_Ingredients=3F_Not_How_Long=2C_But_What=E2=80=99s_?= =?utf-8?Q?in_It=E2=80=A6=22?= In-Reply-To: <168671.76895.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable in a flash of breathtaking, mindboggling, totally awesome insight, Amy, i = present the perfect male author:=0Athe (very sad), but late, Spalding Gray.= =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: amy king =0ATo: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=0ASent: Wed, December 2, 2= 009 7:34:51 AM=0ASubject: I will not go gently into that good night -- "The= Weenie Roast =E2=80=93 Ingredients? Not How Long, But What=E2=80=99s in It= =E2=80=A6"=0A=0A=0APlease don=E2=80=99t take another long drag on your cigg= ie and nonchalantly claim that the editors of Publisher=E2=80=99s Weekly di= dn=E2=80=99t know they were selecting books solely by men for their Top 10 = Best Books of 2009. I will hurl dragon fire and burn your little house of = cards down. One need only peruse the =E2=80=9Cbrief reviews=E2=80=9D of eac= h book selected to understand that no conscious being, sucking smoke or dri= nking coffee, could have been under the misperception that these books were= not male-driven =E2=80=94 the subject matter of each top ten book is undou= btedly male-centered, save the one collection of short stories. The conte= nt of each book is pure masculine mode (mostly written by men, though women= write for purely male interests infrequently): adventure, problem solving= through violence, the sole focus of traditionally-defined masculine protag= onists and their exploits, etc. Not only does this list avoid celebratin= g and promoting women=E2=80=99s stories and modes of=0Abeing, thinking and = exploration, but it doesn=E2=80=99t offer any alternative male narratives t= hat veer from the business-as-usual masculine concerns of war, adventure, a= nd typical exploits such as who=E2=80=99s shagging whom or who discovered w= hat element before the other guy did. And while this list is only one, it = is indicative of a whole history that excludes, tokenizes, and downplays wo= men=E2=80=99s writing.=0A=0A=0A=E2=80=9CBut it=E2=80=99s just a list of boo= ks!=E2=80=9D --Continued here: http://amyking.wordpress.com/2009/12/02/t= he-weenie-roast-=E2=80=93-ingredients-not-how-long-but-what=E2=80=99s-in-it= =E2=80=A6/=0A=0A=0A_______=0A=0ANEW BOOK=0ASlaves to Do These Things -- htt= p://www.blazevox.org/bk-ak3.htm =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =0AThe Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guideli= nes & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A=0A=0A= =0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 08:00:10 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: UbuWeb Subject: Publishing The Unpublishable, 1-50 Comments: To: ubuweb@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://www.ubu.com/ubu/unpub.html= Publishing The Unpublishable, 1-50=0A=0Ahttp://www.ubu.com/ubu/unpub.html= =0A=0AWhat constitutes an unpublishable work? It could be many things: too = long, too experimental, too dull; too exciting; it could be a work of juven= ilia or a style you've long since discarded; it could be a work that falls = far outside the range of what you're best known for; it could be a guilty p= leasure or it could simply be that the world judges it to be awful, but you= think is quite good. We've all got a folder full of things that would othe= rwise never see the light of day.=0A=0AInvited authors were invited to pond= er to that question. The works found here are their responses, ranging from= an 1018-page manuscript (unpublishable due to its length) to a volume of r= omantic high school poems written by a now-respected innovative poet. You g= et the idea.=0A=0AThe web is a perfect place to test the limits of unpublis= hability. With no printing, design or distribution costs, we are free to ex= plore that which would never have been feasible, economically and aesthetic= ally. While this exercise began as an exploration and provocation, the resu= ltant texts are unusually rich; what we once considered to be our trash may= , after all, turn out to be our greatest treasure.=0A=0AThe series will con= clude when the 100th manuscript is published. =0A=0AWorks by Joachim Georg = Schmitt, Franck Leibovici, Christian Bjoljahn & Martin Johs. M=F8ller, Anna= Gray & Ryan Wilson Paulsen, Ryan Trecartin, Erik Belgum, Hans Ulrich Obris= t & Rirkrit Tiravanija, Dana Teen Lomax, Vanessa Place, Vincent Katz, Steph= en McLauglin, Vladimir Zykov, Gregory Laynor, James Carpenter, Dannielle Te= geder, Mark Peters, Mair=E9ad Byrne, Barry Schwabsky, Eleanor Brown, Derek = Beaulieu, Elisabeth S. Clark, Alan Licht, Kenneth Goldsmith, Raphael Rubins= tein, Michael Coffey, Charles Bernstein, Eir=EDkur =D6rn Nordahl, Stephen R= atcliffe, Ara Shirinyan, Tom Johnson, Christian B=F6k, Jon Cotner & Andy Fi= tch, Jeremy Sigler, M=F3nica de la Torre, Tan Lin, Michael Scharf, Mary Jo = Bang, Brian J. Davis, Brian Kim Stefans, Tim Davis, George Kuchar, Jamba Du= nn, Peter Manson, Craig Dworkin, Simon Morris, Kimberly J. Rosenfield, Step= hen Dirle, Claude Closky, Doug Nufer, Robert Fitterman and Bruce Andrews. = =0A=0AUbuWeb=0Ahttp://ubu.com=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 17:16:13 -0500 Reply-To: az421@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Rob McLennan Subject: [SJohnston@okanagan.bc.ca: New Journal] Ryga: A Journal of Provocations, a quarterly dedicated to honouring the leg= acy of one of Canada's greatest playwrights, is seeking prose, poetry, play= s and artwork for upcoming issues. Details may be found at www.ryga.ca/jour= nal.html and questions can be emailed to s= johnston@okanagan.bc.ca Thanks, Sean Johnston Editor, Ryga Dept. of English Okanagan College 7000 College Way Vernon, BC V1B 2N5 Tel: 250-762-5445 (ext. 4672) Toll Free: 1-877-755-2266 (ext. 4672) -- writer/editor/publisher ...STANZAS mag, above/ground press & Chaudiere Books (www.chaudierebooks.com) ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...poetry - a compact of words (Salmon) ...2nd novel - missing persons www.abovegroundpress.blogspot.com * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 13:27:07 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: a peace literature class In-Reply-To: <753458.3287.qm@web51804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thoreau, Thich Nhat Hanh, Sister Chan Khong. Mary Kasimor wrote: > I teach a war literature class, and now I am thinking that a peace literature class would be good. (My war lit. is actually an anti-war lit. class.) I am trying to think of literature and films that somehow look at peace. Martin Luther King and Thoreau come to mind. I am not thinking about peace as only an absence of war, but I also want to think about civil disobedience and conflict resolution, or any other way that peace can be considered. A woman's perspective would be wonderful. > > Does anyone have any ideas--poetry would be grand, too, although my students struggle with poetry. > > Thank you for any ideas that you may have. > > Mary Kasimor > > > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 15:41:30 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Aldon Nielsen Subject: CFP: African American Literature and Culture In-Reply-To: <514413370911251616r261f71b3gffda5878e739a0fc@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 The African American Literature and Culture Society invites submissions for abstracts or papers for multiple sessions at this year's ALA in San Francisco, CA. The society will consider papers or panels on any aspects of African American life and letters. Proposals should be sent electronically to William R. Nash, program coordinator (nash@middlebury.edu). Deadline for submission is 3 January, 2010; notification of acceptance by 30 January 2010. -- Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University University Park, PA 16802-6200 aln10@psu.edu sailing the blogosphere at http://heatstrings.blogspot.com "kindling his mind (more than his mind will kindle)" --William Carlos Williams, early adopter ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 12:44:02 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Peter Quartermain Subject: Re: a peace literature class In-Reply-To: <753458.3287.qm@web51804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Kass Fleisher's Talking Out of School (Dalkey Archive) might (in its = second section, "Tiers") give you some ideas. It's a good book, great = narrative. As for the idea of "Peace Literature", I dunno. Robert Duncan's "Man's Fulfilment In Order and Strife"? In Caterpillar 8-9 (1969) and in his Fictive Certainties (1985) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Peter Quartermain 846 Keefer Street Vancouver BC Canada V6A 1Y7 604 255 8274 (voice and fax) quarterm@interchange.ubc.ca =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D -----Original Message----- From: Poetics List (UPenn, UB) [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Mary Kasimor Sent: 02 December 2009 08:10 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: a peace literature class I teach a war literature class, and now I am thinking that a peace literature class would be good. (My war lit. is actually an anti-war = lit. class.) I am trying to think of literature and films that somehow look = at peace. Martin Luther King and Thoreau come to mind.=A0I am not thinking = about peace as only an absence of war, but I also want to think about civil disobedience and conflict resolution, or any other way that peace can be considered. A woman's perspective would be wonderful. =A0 Does anyone have any ideas--poetry would be grand, too, although my = students struggle with poetry.=20 =A0 Thank you for any ideas that you may have. =A0 Mary Kasimor =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check = guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 12:58:26 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: A new dbCinema series In-Reply-To: <1dec21ae0912020958j51b7c47fyf24346d1e2c9be7c@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Murat, It's indisputable that Angkor Wat is one of the genuine spendors of the world. One look at pictures of Angkor Wat tell us that. Unique. Sprawling. That 12th century sandstone architecture is just stunning as ruin. I haven't been there and admire your having gone. I have merely read about it and looked at pictures. The piece was done out of regard for and interest in Angkor Wat, however, not as a moustache-on-Mona-Lisa sort of gesture. One of the key things in visual poetry is the relation of written/spoken language to the visual. The net's image search engines have done something fairly remarkable in linking written/spoken language and images, as they have. We just type the term we're interested in, and we get back a thousand somehow related images. Sometimes the connection is obvious, sometimes not. It's like the one as the collection of all things that are one: nominal. You get back not something essential but something scattered that perhaps coheres around one or a few centers. Looking at the pictures becomes an exploration of the possible meanings and associations of the term. Part of the idea of dbCinema is to try to do interesting things with these langu(im)age processors. Like a word processor only a language-to-image-to-cinema processor. Another is to offer an alternative notion of cinema for those who, like me, feel somewhat uncomfortable with the empire of representation and video/film/etc. It feels relatively healthy, to me, Murat, to be working toward something that breaks it up toward personal synthesis. By the way, dbCinema doesn't have to get its images from the Net. The concept for a brush can be a local folder of images. In either case, the concept ends up being a collection of images. ja http://vispo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Murat Nemet-Nejat" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:58 AM Subject: Re: A new dbCinema series > Dear Jim, > > I have watched Guess the Hallucination series. I had spent a number of > days > at Angkor Wat region two years ago, the place from parts of which all the > images in GTH series seem to be taken. Perhaps more than anything else > this > series crystalised for me the reasons for my deep dissatisfaction with > works > which essentially collages images or words lifted/gleaned from the > internet. > There is such an abyss between GTH and the physical experience of the > place > -the heat, the arduous walk in multiple days it takes to see the temples, > the clash between Hindu and Buddhist ideologies embodied in the carvings > and > statues in them, the political and historical rootedness of these images, > the stunning realization that the Buddha "smile" one is familiar with is > arrived at by a slight "tweaking" through a period of about two hundred > years of the "frown" in Vishna's face, both its ideological rival and > ancestor, the spectacle of the continuous juxtaposition of art of great > beauty with ruins, crumbling walls, protruding tree trunks through > windows, > occasionally truncated, gigantic Buddha statues, all making me think of > Walter Benjamin's "Naples" and *The Arcades Project*, lovely, green > stagnant > water covered with leaves. The continuous disbelief, as one is walking in > the area, that such a space -a space of dreams as a thread of time- could > have a physical existence, as if being told Santa Claus really existed and > finding it is true. The hallucinatory power of Angkor Wat is multiple > times > greater than the one achieved through the maniplulation of internet images > in Gues the Hallucination. The former requires a walk through often > unbearable heat, over irregular bouldered paths, one to become a "flaneur" > going through concrete time in the absorption of things. What one has in > GTH, it seems to me, is the reverse, a shuffling of flat replicas, at high > speed, drawing attention to its own "artistry," the "art" or the > "literature" it is creating. > > I can understand very well the power of the act/gesture which puts a > moustache on Leonardo's Mona Lisa or defaces it by slashing it -temples in > Angkor Wat are replete with defaced images of Vishna which occurred when a > Buddhist king took over the temple.- But to put a moustache on a > reproduction of Leonardo's Mona Lisa is something else. It has to me a > touch > of the ridiculous or perhaps, if the awareness of this ridiculousness is > present, it may become a piece of conceptual art... > > Ciao, > > Murat ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 14:24:06 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve russell Subject: Re: a peace literature class In-Reply-To: <753458.3287.qm@web51804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii i've about played out my 24 hr posting, but here go: from an angel perspective, consider Wings of Desire. A beautiful, lyrical movie inspired by the poetry of Rilke. A European movie that could be shown on American TV. About ... death ... transcending ... memory ... WW11 flashbacks ... Peter Faulk plays Peter Faulk, a star of a popular American detective show. It may still be my favorite all time picture. Great for discussion because it means many things, but nothing is easily resolved. Directed and co-written with Peter Hanke (a brilliant noveliest, playwright, and sometimes poet), by Wim Wenders. ________________________________ From: Mary Kasimor To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Wed, December 2, 2009 8:09:36 AM Subject: a peace literature class I teach a war literature class, and now I am thinking that a peace literature class would be good. (My war lit. is actually an anti-war lit. class.) I am trying to think of literature and films that somehow look at peace. Martin Luther King and Thoreau come to mind. I am not thinking about peace as only an absence of war, but I also want to think about civil disobedience and conflict resolution, or any other way that peace can be considered. A woman's perspective would be wonderful. Does anyone have any ideas--poetry would be grand, too, although my students struggle with poetry. Thank you for any ideas that you may have. Mary Kasimor ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 14:25:21 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: sheila black Subject: Re: a peace literature class Comments: To: Mary Kasimor In-Reply-To: <753458.3287.qm@web51804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Mary,=20 I think Martin Luther King got many of his ideas from reading what Gandhi s= aid about=A0 peaceful protests or non-resistance. Also, I cannot think off = top of my head which film titles would best fit your subject, but the idea = of teaching against something or of being anti-something, already assumes t= he presence of conflict.=A0 I always think that if I come from a place of p= eace, then the other doesn't exist---the focus on peace or standing for pea= ce paradoxically makes anything else disappear.=A0 Yes I know that is philo= sophical or multi-layered in its complexities but so is war and why human b= eings go to war. I think/believe the commitments we make (as in I am commit= ted to "World Peace" --which the satirized beauty queens often say) require= s great discipline in that the person saying it cannot allow themselves to = go to that other possibility -- which might be seen in war mentality thinki= ng. As far as literature to teach peace---perhaps Utopian society literature--although, even those, end up telling us how those kinds of soc= ieties didn't or couldn't work (think Road to Omelas?) Sorry read that one = a long time ago and I cannot remember the correct /full title. I am sure so= meone on this list will come up with it though.=A0=A0=A0=20 I saw an incredibly peaceful film last year called, "Sweet land" about two = people who couldn't communicate with each other because they spoke differen= t languages, so they had to find a way to do that. It was that process that= was especially sweet. I thought while watching it what if everyone did tha= t when they were unable to communicate with each other--not necessarily fal= l in love (which is what they did) but find ways to overcome their lack in = communication and that this might result in a long term and enduring relati= onships with each other where everyone pulls together during hard times etc= .=A0 Call me a "cock-eyed optimist" or a Pollyanna, I don't care. I just fi= nd teaching that causes more growth than telling those young sweet faces in= our classrooms our world is getting tougher to live in, etc.=20 If I think of anything else --film wise or literature wise, I will write yo= u again.=20 Sheila Black =A0=20 =A0Sheila Black=20 --- On Wed, 12/2/09, Mary Kasimor wrote: From: Mary Kasimor Subject: a peace literature class To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 10:09 AM I teach a war literature class, and now I am thinking that a peace literatu= re class would be good. (My war lit. is actually an anti-war lit. class.) I= am trying to think of literature and films that somehow look at peace. Mar= tin Luther King and Thoreau come to mind.=A0I am not thinking about peace a= s only an absence of war, but I also want to think about civil disobedience= and conflict resolution, or any other way that peace can be considered. A = woman's perspective would be wonderful. =A0 Does anyone have any ideas--poetry would be grand, too, although my student= s struggle with poetry.=20 =A0 Thank you for any ideas that you may have. =A0 Mary Kasimor =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines= & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 09:02:36 +0900 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Robert Grotjohn Subject: Re: a peace literature class In-Reply-To: <753458.3287.qm@web51804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Mitsuye Yamada. *Desert Run* On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 1:09 AM, Mary Kasimor wrote: > I teach a war literature class, and now I am thinking that a peace > literature class would be good. (My war lit. is actually an anti-war lit. > class.) I am trying to think of literature and films that somehow look at > peace. Martin Luther King and Thoreau come to mind. I am not thinking about > peace as only an absence of war, but I also want to think about civil > disobedience and conflict resolution, or any other way that peace can be > considered. A woman's perspective would be wonderful. > > Does anyone have any ideas--poetry would be grand, too, although my > students struggle with poetry. > > Thank you for any ideas that you may have. > > Mary Kasimor > > > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 17:29:37 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David Kirschenbaum Subject: Boog City 60 Print and Online PDF Editions Available MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Please forward ------------------- Hi all, The print edition of Boog City 60 was distributed yesterday. You can =20 read the pdf version now at: http://welcometoboogcity.com/boogpdfs/bc60.pdf Thanks, David -------------------- Boog City 60: NYC Small Presses Issue in conjunction with our New York City Small Presses Night Event Tues. Dec. 15, 6:00 p.m. sharp, free ACA Galleries, 529 W.20th St., 5th Flr., NYC with pages put together by the participating six presses: **Flying Guillotine Press, Sommer Browning and Tony Mancus, eds. http://flyingguillotinepress.blogspot.com/ **Litmus Press/Aufgabe, E. Tracy Grinnell, ed. http://www.litmuspress.org/ **Mal-o-mar Editions, Ariana Reines, ed. http://mal-o-mar.blogspot.com/ **Mermaid Tenement Press, Laura Hinton, ed. http://www.mermaidtenementpress.com **The North Beach Yacht Club, Ryan Murphy, ed. **3 Sad Tigers Press, Mariana Ruiz Firmat, ed. http://germspot.blogspot.com featuring work from: Charles Baudelaire * Abigail Child Norma Cole * Kari Edwards Steve Karl * Brenda Borofsky Serpick Stacy Szymaszek * Angela Veronica Wong ***As well as your usual swell Boog City content*** **=46rom Our Music section, Urban Folk edited by Jonathan Berger** =97"The percussion is someone playing two overturned buckets with =20 sticks, but in the same unassuming way you might drum along to the =20 radio while washing up." from After W.S.: 13 Ways of Looking at Prewar =20= Yardsale; M104 by Prewar Yardsale, reviewed by Tony Rubin. **Our Printed Matter section, edited by Paolo Javier** =97"FDQ is an aporetic glossolalia of defacements, distortions, and =20 extensions of language from the level of the word to the sentence to =20 the poetic sequence 'Whose deadline doesn't thin.'" from =20 Scappettone's Style Shifts; =46rom Dame Quickly by Jennifer Scappettone =20= (Litmus Press), reviewed by Alan Ramon Clinton. =97"Kocot=92s 'vatic library' is, at once, 'searing' in its imprinting = of =20 loss and resourceful as a language-(re)source that restores memory (if =20= 'far back') as a sensory/conceptual event." from Kocot's Elegies; =20 Sunny Wednesday by Noelle Kocot (Wave Books), reviewed by Thomas Fink **And =46rom Our Poetry section, edited by Joanna Fuhrman** (excerpts below) =97Park Slope, Brooklyn's Mike Carlson with two poems "Getting Poetry" The bushy goat wears tufts. His fuzz is fine wool and fun to fluff with until your hands grow tired, until you need to nap. "Exile" Whole afternoons in these beige motels southeast of anything liable to commit itself feelingly to an abstract obsession with stones, =97Leonia, N.J.'s Elsbeth Pancrazi with "Democratic Poem" Perhaps someone will say I have no job no money no idea what the fuck I=92m doing to which I reply, citizen, why concern yourself with my prospects when you can=92t put your pants on by yourself? =97The Upper West Side's Christine Shook with two poems "Haibun" Together we dig a trench and lay cobblestones down for a smooth finish =20= underneath each park bench. Occasionally one slips through my hands and I fall back =20 resting on the ground while someone else carries my stone to its spot. "Haibun" He=92s a young man with large square thighs and thick brittle hair that =20= doesn=92t lie flat. He found a cat underneath a car on 83rd street and keeps it in his hotel =20= room even though they don=92t allow pets, and feeds it cans of food he keeps in the bedroom =20= closet. He uses a blanket for curtains. ***And Inside*** **Art editor Cora Lambert brings us work from The East Village's Alan Gastelum** ----- And thanks to our copy editor, Joe Bates. ----- Please patronize our advertisers: Lorraine Leckie * http://www.lorraineleckie.com/HTML/ No, Dear * nodearmagazine@gmail.com Poetic Voices Without Borders 2 * http://givalpress.com/ Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs * http://www.yoyolabs.com/poetry2009.html Schwervon * http://www.schwervon.com/ Alan Semerdjian * http://www.alansemerdjian.com/ Summer Literary Seminars * http://www.sumlitsem.org/ Vox Pop * http://www.voxpopnet.net/ http://www.voxpoppublishing.com/ ----- To advertise in Boog City, see our ad rate card: http://welcometoboogcity.com/ad_rates.pdf Advertising or donation inquiries can also be directed to editor@boogcity.com or by calling 212-842-BOOG (2664), or you can send money to editor@boogcity.com via https://www.paypal.com/ ----- Poetry Submission Guidelines: Email subs to poetry@welcometoboogcity.com, with no more than five =20 poems, all in one attached file with =93My Name Submission=94 in the =20 subject line and as the name of the file, ie: Walt Whitman Submission. =20= Or mail with an SASE to Poetry editor, Boog City, 330 W. 28th St., =20 Suite 6H, N.Y., N.Y. 10001-4754. ----- Want to write a review (or be reviewed) in Boog=92s Urban Folk music or printed matter sections? Email UF editor Jonathan Berger, uf@welcometoboogcity.com or printed matter editor Paolo Javier, pm@welcometoboogcity.com ----- Want to have your work appear in our art section? Query our art editor, Cora Lambert, art@welcometoboogcity.com ----- 2,250 copies of Boog City are distributed among, and available for free at, the following locations: MANHATTAN East Village Sunshine Theater * 143 E. Houston St. (bet. 1st & 2nd Avenues) Bluestockings * 172 Allen St. (bet. Stanton & Rivington sts.) Pianos * 158 Ludlow St. (bet. Stanton and Rivington sts.) Living Room * 154 Ludlow St. (bet. Stanton and Rivington sts.) Cake Shop * 152 Ludlow St. (bet. Stanton and Rivington sts.) Bowery Poetry Club * 308 Bowery (bet. Houston & Bleecker sts.) Think Coffee * 1 Bleecker St. (@ Bowery) Trash and Vaudeville (upstairs) * 4 St. Mark=92s Pl. (bet. 2nd & 3rd =20= aves.) Mission Caf=E9 * 82 Second Ave. (bet. 4th & 5th sts.) Anthology Film Archives * 32 Second Ave. (bet. 1st & 2nd sts.) Sidewalk Caf=E9 * 94 Avenue A (bet. 6th & 7th sts.) Nuyorican Poets Caf=E9 * 236 E. 3rd St. (bet. Avenues B & C) Lakeside Lounge * 162 Avenue B (bet. 10th & 11th sts.) Life Caf=E9 * 343 E. 10th St. (bet. Avenues A & B) St. Mark=92s Books * 31 Third Ave. (bet. St. Mark=92s Pl. & 9th St.) St. Mark=92s Church * 131 E.10th St. (bet. 2nd & 3rd aves.) Lower Manhattan Acme Underground * 9 Great Jones St. (bet. Broadway & Lafayette St.) Shakespeare & Co. * 716 Broadway (bet. Waverly & Astor places) Other Music * 15 E. 4th St. (bet. Broadway & Lafayette St.) Angelika Film Center * 18 W. Houston St. (bet. Broadway & Mercer St.) Think Coffee * 248 Mercer St. (bet. W. 4th and W. 3rd sts.) Mercer Street Books * 206 Mercer St. (bet. Bleecker & Houston sts.) Housing Works Cafe 126 Crosby St. (East Houston & Prince sts.) McNally Jackson * 52 Prince St. (bet. Mulberry & Lafayette sts.) Hotel Chelsea * 222 W. 23rd St. (bet. 7th & 8th aves.) BROOKLYN Greenpoint Greenpoint Coffee House * 195 Franklin St. (bet. Freeman & Green sts.) Thai Caf=E9 * 925 Manhattan Ave. (bet. Kent St. & Greenpoint Ave.) Matchless * 557 Manhattan Ave. (bet. Nassau and Driggs aves.) Champion Coffe * 1108 Manhattan Ave. (bet. Clay & DuPont sts.)=09 Williamsburg Sideshow Gallery * 319 Bedford Ave. (bet. S.2nd & S.3rd sts.) Supercore Caf=E9 * 305 Bedford Ave. (bet. S.1st & S.2nd sts.) Spoonbill & Sugartown * 218 Bedford Ave. (bet. N.4th & N.5th sts.) Bliss Caf=E9 * 191 Bedford Ave. (bet. N.6th & N.7th sts.)=09 Spike Hill * 184 Bedford Ave. (bet. N.6th & N.7th sts.)=09 Soundfix/Fix Cafe * 110 Bedford Ave. (at N.11th St.) --=20 David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W. 28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://welcometoboogcity.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) To subscribe free to The December Podcast: = http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=3D3431698= 80 For music from Gilmore boys: http://www.myspace.com/gilmoreboysmusic= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 19:21:00 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Adam Katz Subject: Re: a peace literature class In-Reply-To: <753458.3287.qm@web51804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I had a book - - which I bought on the street, never seriously sat down with, so eventually donated so as to save space - - called EINSTEIN ON PEACE, which was a compendium of things he'd written, many of them letters, in which the topic peace was discussed a ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 18:45:04 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Michael Tod Edgerton Subject: CFP: Looking for Graduate Student Work MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii We're seeking academic articles by graduate students who take an interdisciplinary approach to the humanities. Please send your submissions to Joe meyer , and NOT to me. Those of you who teach, please forward to your graduate students. Thanks! Arkansas Literary Review: New Online Graduate Journal Seeking Submissions The Arkansas Literary Review is a new online journal that seeks to provide an active voice for graduate students who wish to explore the relationship between literature and the humanities: philosophy, history, language, etc. It is our intention to create a growing community of graduate voices from which great dialogues and ideas can emerge. We look forward to the many great discussions that will follow. Submission guidelines can be found in the following .pdf file. http://uark.edu/ua/osre/Journal%20Webpages/Submission%20Guidelines.pdf You can also go to the Graduate Student Webpage at the following address: http://www.uark.edu/studorg/gse/index.htm. Once there, click on the "ALR" link on the far right side of the tool bar at the top of the page . Feel free to contact Joe with any questions you may have. Joe Meyer jmm010@uark.edu **Again, please send all submissions to Joe Meyer at the address above.** Michael Tod Edgerton _______________________ If the challenge of our time is the challenge of empathy, to make an empathetic relation; that is, to see another person, to feel their pain, story, whatever--that--that how can a poetic material making be part of--of that? ~ Ann Hamilton, in an interview about her installation, Indigo Blue ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 04:31:20 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David Chirot Subject: Re: A new dbCinema series In-Reply-To: <1dec21ae0912020958j51b7c47fyf24346d1e2c9be7c@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Dear Jim and Murat: Are cutups analyzable in the sense Jim writes of? I think you've not really understood what the cut-ups are for Burroughs, Jim. By using "moreintellgible" materials, what he actually writesof is using writing at ahigher level--that of authors such as someof his favorites--Rimbaud, conrad, graham Green, T.S. Eliot etc etc--as far as the "literary aspect" of cut-ups gpoes. A great deal of Burroughs work with the cut-ups was the daily keeping of sevral concurrent daily journals--a dream journal, a diary type enrty journal, a daily collection of headlines and images from the St louis or other newspapers--and by noting through time the interralationships among these, their intersections, their sychornicties--creating a way of treavel in time as well as in space in writing. At times Burroughs sees the cut-ups made out of these materials as being not unlike the Mayan Calendar in the sense of "predicting" a future via the intersections and occurences/recurrences of certain numbers, names and images. The number of persons killed in airplane crashes , he notes, seem to be running in a pattern which has often the same numbers rearranged in different orders--these in turn might link to an image from that day having to do with the same set of numbers, or with "crash" or "airplanes"--these leading in turn to his archives of dream images and words--the linking of the unconscious with concrete conscious events in a way which proliferates the levels of ti e and consciousness--dream times, dates, numbers--memories that arise from the configurations of numbers--reminding one of a street number or number of a lock combination etc--the cutups pen the door to associative "trains of thought" which combine the intuitive, the unconscious with the conscious mind. I think if you read the Burroughs interview from the Sixties in the Paris review you'll find a good exposition by Burroughs himself of what a day's work is like for him at that particular time, and how many hours a day are spent on the cut ups, making a single journal out of the interlinking entries from the several concurrent ones-- Many of the questions Burroughs is asking revolve around the idea of life in a sense being programmed by CONTROL, and deprogramming, s scrambling, interfering with this CONTROL--CONTROL of the Mayan Calendar variety in which, for Burroughs,s what happens on a certain date is "fixed" well ahead of time and so "has to happen" to such a degree that it becomes "natural" that it happens--a way of CONTROL he also discusses in terms of the word and image control machines of Time-Life-- The cutups for Burroughs are not random in the sense that so many who perfrom them after him seem to think that they are--this is part of their point--how many things even when attempted to being done "randomly' keep producing images and words and time lines of CONTROL--and the writer's efforts continually are to "break through in grey room" "where the Reality Films are made." This breakthrough into the Control Rooms where the films are made, is helped to a good extent by personal dreams, memories, personal associations with numbers and names and also by using writers who posses already a great deal of imagination so that the imagination of several is also folded into the cut ups-- In a sense what the cut-ups are an effort at is the resistance to the machine--ironically enough now there are several machines on line that wil produce out of any text fed into it "cutups" which are basically generic, and so defeat the purpose of Burroughs' conception --as they are conformist by their very generic being- Murat's text with its cutting in and out of literary allusion, its dream states and sense of floating, open to the concrete structures as the writer moves among them--the physical sensations of heat and difficult walking (NOT the flaneur--)--these slow down and make the attention at once far more direct, slowed, attentive--and speeded up in the sense that that as with film, the slowing down of the movement of frames creates the speeding up of an image--so the images become unmoored from their seeming stasis, and, indeed, one may then see in this intersection of slowness with speed, the frown of Vishnu transmute into the smile of the Buddha over a two hundred year period-- The text of Murat's then, participating already in the liminalareas between dream and concrete diffiuclt to wlk n reality--the liimnal states observed in historical time as Vishnu becomes slowly buddha--the references to outside events via such evidences as this transmuattion to the passing of hhsirtocal, political and econmic times--al these create th enmkind of "trvel" text which Burroughs' preferred to use in his cut ups when using literary or non-newspaer writings--Graham Greene for example, he is reading The Quiet American aboard a ship, and looks up--and there by God IS A Quiet American ascending the stairs towards him--the novel creating a peron who in real time is enoucntred by the reader, linked by the title of the book and the description with in it which matches the real fiugure apporaching-- It is such events that break down the systems of control, while in a sense the Guess the Hallucination is a reinforcement of Control because it takes what one might think of as "stock footage" of a myriad images from Malraux's "Museum without Walls" and runs them together ins such a way as to reiterate that this is not a hallucination but simply a way of ordering these images as a "set" among myriad different ways of arranging the images. Since many images are ones which are recurring ones in the vast halls of the Museum without Walls, they acquire a kind of generic "already fixed" quality, in which what had been the energy at one time of the image is bleached out, leaving the "virtual copy" as a kind of after image ghost of a once occurring image that not only time has caused to fade but the fading of eyes looking at as they are drawn in ever vaster numbers to book and magazine reproductions fixed in space to virtual images fixed in time--the sort of "Transcendental" aspect of the virtual i ve written about, which creates akind of stasis so that time is always "real time" no matter how old or new the materials are-- This stasis and fixing of what seem an "eternal" event fixed in "a space of (Real) Time"--begins to acquire the quality of the inevitability of the Mayan Calendar for Burroughs--or of Time Life---- This is a fixing of an entropy, a steady state of an energy level run down --to the state in which energy is dispersed in such a flat-surfaced way as to no longer produce any thing other than an immutable stasis--a sense of being worn down and crushed by Control, perhaps-- Andre Gide wrote of the works of Louis-Ferdinand Celine--"It is not reality which Celine presents, but the hallucinations which reality produces." This is the kind of hallucinatory territory Murat is walking in--not a static steady state, a fixed immuntable Virtual Real Time--but a liminal time--moving through time--at once the conjunction of the Eternal and the ephemeral that Baudelaire stated as the elements creating Modernism--and an hallucinatory quality provoked by the concrete--which exists in a taphonomy--that is, in its present state as a real ity underoging the disintegrations and transmutations of time, and in these energies of decay and collapse, releasing those energies which provoke indeed, the hallucinatory aspects arising from reality--as part of a natural process-- "The basis of art is change in the universe" states the great Japanese Haiku poet and prose writer Basho-- (in "Learn from the Pine:")-- On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 9:58 AM, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > Dear Jim, > > I have watched Guess the Hallucination series. I had spent a number of days > at Angkor Wat region two years ago, the place from parts of which all the > images in GTH series seem to be taken. Perhaps more than anything else this > series crystalised for me the reasons for my deep dissatisfaction with > works > which essentially collages images or words lifted/gleaned from the > internet. > There is such an abyss between GTH and the physical experience of the place > -the heat, the arduous walk in multiple days it takes to see the temples, > the clash between Hindu and Buddhist ideologies embodied in the carvings > and > statues in them, the political and historical rootedness of these images, > the stunning realization that the Buddha "smile" one is familiar with is > arrived at by a slight "tweaking" through a period of about two hundred > years of the "frown" in Vishna's face, both its ideological rival and > ancestor, the spectacle of the continuous juxtaposition of art of great > beauty with ruins, crumbling walls, protruding tree trunks through windows, > occasionally truncated, gigantic Buddha statues, all making me think of > Walter Benjamin's "Naples" and *The Arcades Project*, lovely, green > stagnant > water covered with leaves. The continuous disbelief, as one is walking in > the area, that such a space -a space of dreams as a thread of time- could > have a physical existence, as if being told Santa Claus really existed and > finding it is true. The hallucinatory power of Angkor Wat is multiple times > greater than the one achieved through the maniplulation of internet images > in Gues the Hallucination. The former requires a walk through often > unbearable heat, over irregular bouldered paths, one to become a "flaneur" > going through concrete time in the absorption of things. What one has in > GTH, it seems to me, is the reverse, a shuffling of flat replicas, at high > speed, drawing attention to its own "artistry," the "art" or the > "literature" it is creating. > > I can understand very well the power of the act/gesture which puts a > moustache on Leonardo's Mona Lisa or defaces it by slashing it -temples in > Angkor Wat are replete with defaced images of Vishna which occurred when a > Buddhist king took over the temple.- But to put a moustache on a > reproduction of Leonardo's Mona Lisa is something else. It has to me a > touch > of the ridiculous or perhaps, if the awareness of this ridiculousness is > present, it may become a piece of conceptual art... > > Ciao, > > Murat > > > > > On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 6:36 PM, Jim Andrews wrote: > > > GUESS THE HALLUCINATION > > http://vispo.com/dbcinema/angkorwat > > > > I've been developing the text nib in dbCinema, the graphic > > synthesizer/langu(im)age processor I'm writing. And produced the above > > series of 256 images (1100x900) with it. > > > > For five revelations per second, can you tell me the search term used to > > fetch the pictures from the Internet used in this series? > > > > I also wrote an essay on related matters that appears at the above URL. A > > sample from it: > > > > "William S. Burroughs observed that cutting up cutups didn't seem to work > > as well as doing cutups of more intelligible material. The reason why is > not > > far to seek. Cutups normally operate around the level of the phrase. The > > level/length of the phrase can be associated with a higher level of > semantic > > intelligibility than a level/length/string half the size. Consequently, > the > > semantic intelligibility of cutups of cutups should normally be about > half > > that of cutups of more intelligible material. > > > > This logic suggests that collage/montage/cutup techniques can be > analyzed, > > in this case, somewhat quantitatively in terms of intelligibility vs > > unintelligibility or, in the case of dbCinema, representation vs > > abstraction, as well as intelligibility vs unintelligibility. Only here > we > > are dealing with the semantics of images rather than of natural > language..." > > > > ja > > > > ================================== > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines > > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 08:15:46 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Patrick Duggan Subject: Idiolexicon 2.2: Winter/Troop Surge MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hello everyone, Idiolexicon issue 2.2 is online: http://www.idiolexicon.com/archive/issue22.html featuring poetry by Kimberly Abruzzo Marissa Bell-Toffoli Della Watson & Jessica Wickens Mike Young Check it out! -- Patrick Duggan Idiolexicon ( http://www.idiolexicon.com ) ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 08:52:06 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Lewis Warsh Subject: Little Theater at Dixon Place Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v919.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable LITTLE THEATER AT DIXON PLACE DECEMBER 7, 2009 8 PM > THE GOLDEN VEIL:(excerpt) > by The National Theater of the United States of America > > writing byNormandy Raven Sherwood > performance byJesse Hawley > direction byRyan Bronz > > > > LEWIS WARSH > > New Poems > > > > An excerpt fromTHE MR. BUNGLE PROJECT: > written byTrish Harnetiaux, directed by Eric Nightengale. > > Few know that way back in the day, 1993 to be exact, a text-based =20 > social network > =91mansion=92 called LambdaMOO was hijacked by a =93Mr. Bungle,=94 who = =20 > singlehandedly > detonated the new world utopia by misbehaving most grievously at a =20 > virtual party. > Somewhat based on the real story of the first instance of virtual =20 > rape, the attempt to > deal with the perpetrator and the awkward Charlie Rose episode that =20= > followed, Mr. > Bungle and the Incident at LambdaMOO explores our fascination with =20 > hiding behind > a keyboard, the impulse to be bad, and the anonymity that made it =20 > all possible. > > > > BETTER LOVE THROUGH SURVEILLANCE: > PRACTICAL TIPS AND A CAUTIONARY TALE > > Further excerpts from a motivational PowerPoint lecture byJon Keith =20= > Brunelle, > with video artist Daniel Vatsky. > > > > CHRISTINE ELMO:in performance with some other amazing souls > > there is no name right now. > it's a performance. > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Monday, December 7, 2009=978:00 pm @ the new Dixon Place > 161A Chrystie btw. Delancey & Rivington (F/V 2ndAve; 6 Bleecker; JMZ =20= > Bowery) > > Tickets $15.00 @ the door or online (www.dixonplace.org) > but just$12.00 with a printout of this message > 1st come, 1st served, no reservations > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 12:06:02 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: John Latta Subject: New at Isola di Rifiuti MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Some select'd new posts of likely interest to Poetics readers: Kent Johnson's The Question of Attention Span http://isola-di-rifiuti.blogspot.com/2009/12/kent-johnsons-question-of-attention.html Johnson writing about the field dynamics of Steve Evans's annual assembling of titles. Jeff Clark's Ruins http://isola-di-rifiuti.blogspot.com/2009/11/jeff-clarks-ruins.html On Jeff Clark's Gesamtkunstwerk and its swerve into pure feeling. The Grand Piano Notes http://isola-di-rifiuti.blogspot.com/2009/11/grand-piano-notes_18.html Latest in a series (with links to all previous notes) of close readings of the monumental autobiography. Thanks for reading. JL ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 15:47:13 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: "E. J. McAdams" Subject: SEA Poetry Series #3, featuring Laura Elrick MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Laura Elrick will do a live poetic reading as narration for her film, Stalk= , at: EXIT ART 475 10th Avenue (between 35th and 36th) 7:30pm on December 10th, 2009. Following the reading, there will be a panel response from Elrick; Jess Levey, artist in the SEA exhibition America for Sale; and Adam Simon, a Brooklyn-based artist and the founder of alternative "space" Four Walls and the FineArt Adoption Network. Laura Elrick=92s latest project Stalk is a critical outgrowth of the spatia= lly investigative social poetics she gestures toward in her essay =93Poetry, Ecology and the Reappropriation of Lived Space.=94 Originally commissioned = by the Kootenay School of Writing for the Positions Colloquium held in Vancouver in August 2008, Stalk documents a silent public performance (part dystopian-urban cartography, part spatial-poetic intervention) over which Elrick intones poetry and song constructed from appropriated text. Q & A and reception to follow. Conceived and organized by E.J. McAdams. $5 Suggested Donation. Cash bar. For links to Laura Elrick's readings and to pages on the artists, please visit the Facebook event page: http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=3D178775586294&index=3D1 For a link to Laura's essay "Poetry, Ecology, and the Reappropriation of LIved Space" at the SEA blog: http://seapoetryseries.blogspot.com/ It is going to be a great evening. Hope you can make it! =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 13:26:35 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Wallis Leslie Subject: Re: a peace literature class In-Reply-To: <4B18110B.3030505@umn.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable HI Mary, =A0 Maxine Hong Kingston led a writing workshop for veterans for many years. Tt= his book grew out of that work: =A0 The Fifth Book of Peace=A0 and Veterans of War, Veterans of Peace=A0=20 An earlier book titled The Fifth Book of Peace is also relevant. Here is th= e Publisher's Weekly blurb copied from Amazon: From Publishers Weekly In September 1991, Kingston (The Woman Warrior; China Men; etc.) drove towa= rd her Oakland, Calif., home after attending her father's funeral. The hill= s were burning; she unwittingly risked her life attempting to rescue her no= vel-in-progress, The Fourth Book of Peace. Nothing remained of the novel ex= cept a block of ash; all that remained of her possessions were intricate tw= inings of molten glass, blackened jade jewelry and the chimney of what was = once home to her and her husband. This work retells the novel-in-progress (= an autobiographical tale of Wittman Ah Sing, a poet who flees to Hawaii to = evade the Vietnam draft with his white wife and young son); details Kingsto= n's harrowing trek to find her house amid the ruins; accompanies the author= on her quest to discern myths regarding the Chinese Three Lost Books of Pe= ace and, finally, submits Kingston's remarkable call to veterans of all war= s (though Vietnam plays the largest role) to help her convey a literature of peace through their and her writings. Kingston writes in a p= anoply of languages: American, Chinese, poetry, dreams, mythos, song, histo= ry, hallucination, meditation, tragedy-all are invoked in this complex stre= am-of-consciousness memoir, which questions repeatedly and intrinsically: W= hy war? Why not peace? The last war on Iraq and the current one meld here, = as do wars thousands of years old. Complicated, convoluted, fascinating and= , in the final section, poignant almost beyond bearability, this work illum= ines one writer's experience of war and remembrance while elevating a perso= nal search to a cosmic quest for truth. This is vintage Kingston: agent pro= vocateur, she once again follows her mother's dictate to "educate the world= ." Copyright 2003 Reed Business Information, Inc.=20 =A0 hope these suggestions are useful, Wallis Leslie =A0 =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 17:53:28 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Poetry Project Subject: Events at The Poetry Project December Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Here=B9s what=B9s happening next week at The Poetry Project. Also, check out Marcella Durand=B9s final post as guest blogger here: http://poetryproject.org/project-blog. Monday, December 7, 8 PM Jules Boykoff & Kaia Sand Jules Boykoff is the author of Hegemonic Love Potion (Factory School, 2009) and Once Upon a Neoliberal Rocket Badge (Edge Books, 2006). His political writing includes Landscapes of Dissent: Guerrilla Poetry & Public Space (co-authored with Kaia Sand) (Palm Press, 2008), Beyond Bullets: The Suppression of Dissent in the United States (AK Press, 2007), and The Suppression of Dissent: How the State and Mass Media Squelch USAmerican Social Movements (Routledge, 2006). His writing has appeared recently in Th= e Nation, The Guardian, and Wheelhouse Magazine. He lives in Portland, Oregon= . Kaia Sand=B9s book,=A0Remember to Wave, is forthcoming this winter with Tinfish Press. This collection investigates political geography in Portland, Oregon= , and contains a poetry walk she guides. She is also the author of a poetry collection,=A0interval (Edge Books 2004), and co-author with Jules Boykoff of Landscapes of Dissent: Guerrilla Poetry and Public Space (Palm Press 2008).=A0=A0Sand has created several chapbooks through the Dusie Kollektiv, which also published her wee book,=A0lotto. Her poems comprise the text of tw= o books in Jim Dine=B9s Hot Dreams series (Steidl Editions 2008). She is currently working on=A0The Happy Valley Project, multi-media collaborations investigating housing foreclosures and finance. Wednesday, December 9, 8 PM Maxine Chernoff & Paul Hoover Maxine Chernoff is a professor and Chair of the Creative Writing program at San Francisco State University.=A0 With Paul Hoover, she edits the long-running literary journal New American Writing, now in its 28th issue. She is the author of six books of fiction and nine books of poetry, most recently The Turning (Apogee Press, 2008).=A0 Her collection of stories, Sign= s of Devotion, was a New York Times Notable Book of 1993. Both her novel American Heaven and her book of short stories, Some of Her Friends=8A were finalists for the Bay Area Book Reviewers Award. Wiith Paul Hoover, she has translated The Selected Poems of Friedrich H=F6lderlin, which won the PEN USA 2009 Translation Award. Paul Hoover lived in Chicago=A0from 1968 to 1994 where he was a founding boar= d member of The Poetry Center of Chicago and long-time poet-in-residence at Columbia College Chicago. Professor of Creative Writing at San Francisco State University since 2003, he edited the widely adopted anthology, Postmodern American Poetry (W. W. Norton, 1994) and currently curates the poetry reading series at the de Young Museum of Fine Art in San Francisco. His most recent poetry collections are Sonnet 56 (Les Figues Press, 2009), consisting of 56 formal versions of Shakespeare=B9s sonnet of that number, Edge and Fold (Apogee Press, 2006), and Poems in Spanish (Omnidawn, 2005), which was nominated for the Bay Area Book Award. Friday, December 11, 10 PM Lonely Christopher & Rebecca Nagle Lonely Christopher writes across forms; he is a poet, playwright, director, editor, and unpublished novelist. His poetry has been collected in the chapbooks Satan (Small Anchor) and Wow, Where Do You Come from, Upside-Down Land? (No Know) and the first two installments of his Gay Plays, a trilogy of dramatic explorations into the queer situation, have been released together by Small Anchor. Withal, the Gay Plays have been staged internationally and published in China in a Mandarin translation. He is a founding member of the Corresponding Society, the manager of its blog, and an editor of its biannual literary journal Correspondence; he is the curato= r of the press=B9 second series of poetry chapbooks What Where (forthcoming in winter). He lives in Bed-Stuy, Brooklyn. Rebecca Nagle is a performance, new media and community artist. She grew up in Kansas. After attending Interlochen Arts Academy, she studied at Marylan= d Institute College of Art. She is an internationally exhibited and collected artist with works in the New Museum, NY and Ssamzie Art Warehouse, South Korea. Nagle has shown at Current Gallery, Art in General, Site Santa Fe, Artscape, and Conflux Festival. She was hailed by Baltimore City=B9s Paper=B9s senior arts editor Bret McCabe as =B3Baltimore=B9s very own life-is-art-is-life performance maven=8Amingling the internet and performance into a fresh and vital new thing=B2. Rebecca=B9s performative, interative and community art projects challenge people around issues of intimacy, the body, power, boundaries and efficacy. She is currently trying to make the world a more open, equitable and creative place through community organizing and radical performance art. Become a Poetry Project Member! http://poetryproject.org/become-a-member Calendar: http://www.poetryproject.org/program-calendar The Poetry Project is located at St. Mark's Church-in-the-Bowery 131 East 10th Street at Second Avenue New York City 10003 Trains: 6, F, N, R, and L. info@poetryproject.org www.poetryproject.org Admission is $8, $7 for students/seniors and $5 for members (though now those who take out a membership at $95 or higher will get in FREE to all regular readings). We are wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. For more info call 212-674-0910. If you=B9d like to be unsubscribed from this mailing list, please drop a line at info@poetryproject.org. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 03:22:23 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Michael Andre Subject: Michael Andre & Vyt Bakaitis & Jeff Wright at ZINC In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Michael Andre and Vyt Bakaitis will read poetry in Kimberly Lyons series= at Zinc 82 W 3rd Street (between Thompson and Sullivan) December 13 6:45= pm. Michael's most recent thick book of poems: Experiments in Banal Living= . Vyt's thick book of poems: City Country. Jeffrey C. Wright will introduc= e. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 10:05:54 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: amy king Subject: Politician to watch out for ... Comments: To: new-poetry-admin@wiz.cath.vt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Diane Savino made national headlines with her excellent speech on the sanctity of marriage posted here -- http://amyking.wordpress.com/2009/12/06/the-sanctity-of-marriage/ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 19:02:05 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: A new dbCinema series In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David, I know you've read a great deal of Burroughs and, moreover, are spiritually and perhaps chemically attuned to his junkie shamanism. I have read less (but still considerable) Burroughs; what you say about what the cut-ups are for him rings true, to my reading of him. Being from the west coast, I have had my share of acquaintance with the poet and/or artist shaman. It can be quite fascinating, of course, but there is usually more than a little hokum and queening after the authentic shamanism. What I proposed in the essay at http://vispo.com/dbcinema/angkorwat about a kind of quantitative analysis of the semantics of collage/cut-up/montage/aleatory/algorithmic/verbal/visual/sonic methods does not evince an ignorance about Burroughs or his methods or even the motivations for his methods but, instead, takes up a different direction altogether. One of the things I expect the shamanistic tradition has advanced is the idea that we shouldn't be afraid of what we don't understand. I'm not trying to be a shaman. I'm just trying to explore the possibilities of writing and art amid the digital. Just trying out a few new things and seeing where they go. It wouldn't have been in Burroughs's range to articulate a quantitative theory as to why cutups of cutups didn't work as well as cutups of his regular (yes, more intelligable) writing. But, already, simply in doing the experiment and making the observation, he noted a phenomenon that actually can be explained in terms of the length between cuts. Is mathematical knowledge, by its nature, not poetic? I don't think so. Tell that to Pythagoras. ja http://vispo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Chirot" To: Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 4:31 AM Subject: Re: A new dbCinema series > Dear Jim and Murat: > > Are cutups analyzable in the sense Jim writes of? > I think you've not really understood what the cut-ups are for Burroughs, > Jim. By using "moreintellgible" materials, what he actually writesof is > using writing at ahigher level--that of authors such as someof his > favorites--Rimbaud, conrad, graham Green, T.S. Eliot etc etc--as far as > the > "literary aspect" of cut-ups gpoes. > > A great deal of Burroughs work with the cut-ups was the daily keeping of > sevral concurrent daily journals--a dream journal, a diary type enrty > journal, a daily collection of headlines and images from the St louis or > other newspapers--and by noting through time the interralationships among > these, their intersections, their sychornicties--creating a way of treavel > in time as well as in space in writing. > > At times Burroughs sees the cut-ups made out of these materials as being > not > unlike the Mayan Calendar in the sense of "predicting" a future via the > intersections and occurences/recurrences of certain numbers, names and > images. The number of persons killed in airplane crashes , he notes, > seem > to be running in a pattern which has often the same numbers rearranged in > different orders--these in turn might link to an image from that day > having > to do with the same set of numbers, or with "crash" or "airplanes"--these > leading in turn to his archives of dream images and words--the linking of > the unconscious with concrete conscious events in a way which proliferates > the levels of ti e and consciousness--dream times, dates, > numbers--memories > that arise from the configurations of numbers--reminding one of a street > number or number of a lock combination etc--the cutups pen the door to > associative "trains of thought" which combine the intuitive, the > unconscious > with the conscious mind. I think if you read the Burroughs interview from > the Sixties in the Paris review you'll find a good exposition by Burroughs > himself of what a day's work is like for him at that particular time, and > how many hours a day are spent on the cut ups, making a single journal out > of the interlinking entries from the several concurrent ones-- > > Many of the questions Burroughs is asking revolve around the idea of life > in a sense being programmed by CONTROL, and deprogramming, s scrambling, > interfering with this CONTROL--CONTROL of the Mayan Calendar variety in > which, for Burroughs,s what happens on a certain date is "fixed" well > ahead > of time and so "has to happen" to such a degree that it becomes "natural" > that it happens--a way of CONTROL he also discusses in terms of the word > and > image control machines of Time-Life-- > > The cutups for Burroughs are not random in the sense that so many who > perfrom them after him seem to think that they are--this is part of their > point--how many things even when attempted to being done "randomly' keep > producing images and words and time lines of CONTROL--and the writer's > efforts continually are to "break through in grey room" "where the Reality > Films are made." > > This breakthrough into the Control Rooms where the films are made, is > helped > to a good extent by personal dreams, memories, personal associations with > numbers and names and also by using writers who posses already a great > deal > of imagination so that the imagination of several is also folded into the > cut ups-- > > In a sense what the cut-ups are an effort at is the resistance to the > machine--ironically enough now there are several machines on line that wil > produce out of any text fed into it "cutups" which are basically generic, > and so defeat the purpose of Burroughs' > conception --as they are conformist by their very generic being- > > Murat's text with its cutting in and out of literary allusion, its dream > states and sense of floating, open to the concrete structures as the > writer > moves among them--the physical sensations of heat and difficult walking > (NOT > the flaneur--)--these slow down and make the attention at once far more > direct, slowed, attentive--and speeded up in the sense that that as with > film, the slowing down of the movement of frames creates the speeding up > of > an image--so the images become unmoored from their seeming stasis, and, > indeed, one may then see in this intersection of slowness with speed, the > frown of Vishnu transmute into the smile of the Buddha over a two hundred > year period-- > > The text of Murat's then, participating already in the liminalareas > between > dream and concrete diffiuclt to wlk n reality--the liimnal states observed > in historical time as Vishnu becomes slowly buddha--the references to > outside events via such evidences as this transmuattion to the passing of > hhsirtocal, political and econmic times--al these create th enmkind of > "trvel" text which Burroughs' preferred to use in his cut ups when using > literary or non-newspaer writings--Graham Greene for example, he is > reading > The Quiet American aboard a ship, and looks up--and there by God IS A > Quiet > American ascending the stairs towards him--the novel creating a peron who > in > real time is enoucntred by the reader, linked by the title of the book and > the description with in it which matches the real fiugure apporaching-- > > It is such events that break down the systems of control, while in a sense > the Guess the Hallucination is a reinforcement of Control because it takes > what one might think of as "stock footage" of a myriad images from > Malraux's > "Museum without Walls" and runs them together ins such a way as to > reiterate > that this is not a hallucination but simply a way of ordering these images > as a "set" among myriad different ways of arranging the images. Since > many > images are ones which are recurring ones in the vast halls of the Museum > without Walls, they acquire a kind of generic "already fixed" quality, in > which what had been the energy at one time of the image is bleached out, > leaving the "virtual copy" as a kind of after image ghost of a once > occurring image that not only time has caused to fade but the fading of > eyes > looking at as they are drawn in ever vaster numbers to book and magazine > reproductions fixed in space to virtual images fixed in time--the sort of > "Transcendental" aspect of the virtual i > ve written about, which creates akind of stasis so that time is always > "real > time" no matter how old or new the materials are-- > > This stasis and fixing of what seem an > "eternal" event fixed in "a space of (Real) Time"--begins to acquire the > quality of the inevitability of the Mayan Calendar for Burroughs--or of > Time > Life---- > > This is a fixing of an entropy, a steady state of an energy level run > down > --to the state in which energy is dispersed in such a flat-surfaced way as > to no longer produce any thing other than an immutable stasis--a sense of > being worn down and crushed by Control, perhaps-- > > Andre Gide wrote of the works of Louis-Ferdinand Celine--"It is not > reality > which Celine presents, but the hallucinations which reality produces." > > This is the kind of hallucinatory territory Murat is walking in--not a > static steady state, a fixed immuntable Virtual Real Time--but a liminal > time--moving through time--at once the conjunction of the Eternal and the > ephemeral that Baudelaire stated as the elements creating Modernism--and > an > hallucinatory quality provoked by the concrete--which exists in a > taphonomy--that is, in its present state as a real ity underoging the > disintegrations and transmutations of time, and in these energies of decay > and collapse, releasing those energies which provoke indeed, the > hallucinatory aspects arising from reality--as part of a natural process-- > > "The basis of art is change in the universe" states the great Japanese > Haiku poet and prose writer Basho-- > (in "Learn from the Pine:")-- > > > > > > On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 9:58 AM, Murat Nemet-Nejat > wrote: > >> Dear Jim, >> >> I have watched Guess the Hallucination series. I had spent a number of >> days >> at Angkor Wat region two years ago, the place from parts of which all the >> images in GTH series seem to be taken. Perhaps more than anything else >> this >> series crystalised for me the reasons for my deep dissatisfaction with >> works >> which essentially collages images or words lifted/gleaned from the >> internet. >> There is such an abyss between GTH and the physical experience of the >> place >> -the heat, the arduous walk in multiple days it takes to see the temples, >> the clash between Hindu and Buddhist ideologies embodied in the carvings >> and >> statues in them, the political and historical rootedness of these images, >> the stunning realization that the Buddha "smile" one is familiar with is >> arrived at by a slight "tweaking" through a period of about two hundred >> years of the "frown" in Vishna's face, both its ideological rival and >> ancestor, the spectacle of the continuous juxtaposition of art of great >> beauty with ruins, crumbling walls, protruding tree trunks through >> windows, >> occasionally truncated, gigantic Buddha statues, all making me think of >> Walter Benjamin's "Naples" and *The Arcades Project*, lovely, green >> stagnant >> water covered with leaves. The continuous disbelief, as one is walking in >> the area, that such a space -a space of dreams as a thread of time- could >> have a physical existence, as if being told Santa Claus really existed >> and >> finding it is true. The hallucinatory power of Angkor Wat is multiple >> times >> greater than the one achieved through the maniplulation of internet >> images >> in Gues the Hallucination. The former requires a walk through often >> unbearable heat, over irregular bouldered paths, one to become a >> "flaneur" >> going through concrete time in the absorption of things. What one has in >> GTH, it seems to me, is the reverse, a shuffling of flat replicas, at >> high >> speed, drawing attention to its own "artistry," the "art" or the >> "literature" it is creating. >> >> I can understand very well the power of the act/gesture which puts a >> moustache on Leonardo's Mona Lisa or defaces it by slashing it -temples >> in >> Angkor Wat are replete with defaced images of Vishna which occurred when >> a >> Buddhist king took over the temple.- But to put a moustache on a >> reproduction of Leonardo's Mona Lisa is something else. It has to me a >> touch >> of the ridiculous or perhaps, if the awareness of this ridiculousness is >> present, it may become a piece of conceptual art... >> >> Ciao, >> >> Murat >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 6:36 PM, Jim Andrews wrote: >> >> > GUESS THE HALLUCINATION >> > http://vispo.com/dbcinema/angkorwat >> > >> > I've been developing the text nib in dbCinema, the graphic >> > synthesizer/langu(im)age processor I'm writing. And produced the above >> > series of 256 images (1100x900) with it. >> > >> > For five revelations per second, can you tell me the search term used >> > to >> > fetch the pictures from the Internet used in this series? >> > >> > I also wrote an essay on related matters that appears at the above URL. >> > A >> > sample from it: >> > >> > "William S. Burroughs observed that cutting up cutups didn't seem to >> > work >> > as well as doing cutups of more intelligible material. The reason why >> > is >> not >> > far to seek. Cutups normally operate around the level of the phrase. >> > The >> > level/length of the phrase can be associated with a higher level of >> semantic >> > intelligibility than a level/length/string half the size. Consequently, >> the >> > semantic intelligibility of cutups of cutups should normally be about >> half >> > that of cutups of more intelligible material. >> > >> > This logic suggests that collage/montage/cutup techniques can be >> analyzed, >> > in this case, somewhat quantitatively in terms of intelligibility vs >> > unintelligibility or, in the case of dbCinema, representation vs >> > abstraction, as well as intelligibility vs unintelligibility. Only here >> we >> > are dealing with the semantics of images rather than of natural >> language..." >> > >> > ja >> > >> > ================================== >> > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines >> > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines >> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 13:40:17 +0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Dean Brink Subject: Subject: a peace literature class MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Big5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Mary Kasimor, You might want to search the archives of June and July when I solicited ideas for poetry on Iraq. The subject heading was: "Seeking poetry treating American occupation of Iraq" For an overview of mostly postwar poetry in this field I recommend Philip Metres' book _Behind the Lines_ and related website, http://www.behindthelinespoetry.blogspot.com/ . Allen Ginsberg's "Wichita Vortex Sutra" is interesting (in Collected Poems, 1947-1980). While reading antiwar poetry I felt a lack of committed activist poetry against the invasion of Iraq and wrote poems such as "To You Who Have Been Invaded by America" (http://interpoetics.blogspot.com/2009/06/to-you-who-have-been-invaded-by-a= merica.html), and realized the ideas here were from writings by Gandhi I read when I was 18 (a hundred years ago). I spotted a similar book recently and reread it - _Gandhi on Non-Violence: A Selection from the Writings of Mahatma Gandhi, ed. and with an intro. by Thomas Merton._ I believe this would be an excellent (and short) book to include in such a course (by New Directions). The Merton writing in it is also beautiful, although a bit heavy-handed in reminding himself he is a Christian. Depending on your students, you might also see what literature - including pamphlets - the Friends or the Fellowship of Reconciliation have on their shelves. Feel free to back channel me. Best wishes, Dean Brink --=20 =A5]=BCw=BC=D6 Dean Brink =A7U=B2z=B1=D0=B1=C2 Assistant Professor =AD^=A4=E5=BE=C7=A8t English Department =B2H=A6=BF=A4j=BE=C7 Tamkang University 25137 =A5x=A5_=BF=A4=B2H=A4=F4=C2=ED=AD^=B1M=B8=F4151=B8=B9 151 Ying-chuan Road Tamsui, Taipei County Taiwan 25137 +886-02-621-5656, x2054 interpoetics@gmail.com interpoetics.blogspot.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 09:20:22 -0500 Reply-To: pmetres@jcu.edu Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Philip Metres Subject: Peace Literature Comments: cc: mkasimor@YAHOO.COM In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mary, Please check out my website (see below) for some information about my course, "Literature of War and Peace." I'm very happy you're moving beyond literature of war. It's so played out as a focus, and can be irresponsible. After all, literature of war is part of the war culture. I know you're a little skittish about the poetry. But let me suggest BEHIND THE LINES: WAR RESISTANCE POETRY ON THE AMERICAN HOMEFRONT SINCE 1941 (2007), an examination of poets and the peace movement. The introduction and conclusion could be of particular use to you. Also an anthology which I co-edited, for which I wrote a useful introduction, COME TOGETHER: IMAGINE PEACE (2008). The intro, which you can read online (it's on Big Bridge), lays out the sort of wider lens of what peace poetry is about. There are great resources online--and you'll be able to find whole syllabi on the subject, but among the texts typically taught by me and others for an American lit course (though ideally, you'd go global!): CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE by Thoreau something by Lev Tolstoy ("The Kingdom of God is Within You"?) DAY BY DAY selected writings of Dorothy Day DOWN IN MY HEART by William Stafford (about CO's in WWII) THE TRIAL OF THE CATONSVILLE NINE by Daniel Berrigan AN ATLAS OF THE DIFFICULT WORLD by Adrienne Rich other poets, June Jordan, Allen Ginsberg, Muriel Rukeyser, Grace Paley, etc. Philip Metres Associate Professor Department of English John Carroll University 20700 N. Park Blvd University Heights, OH 44118 phone: (216) 397-4528 (work) fax: (216) 397-1723 http://www.philipmetres.com http://www.behindthelinespoetry.blogspot.com "Those of us who had imagination circuits built can look in someone's face and see stories there; to everyone else, a face will be just a face." Kurt Vonnegut "...it doesn't matter whether we act or we write--the main thing isn't fame, glamour, or the things I dreamed about, it's knowing how to endure. I know how to shoulder my cross and I have faith. I have faith and it's not so painful for me, and when I think about my calling, I'm not afraid of life." Nina, from Chekhov's "Seagull" ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 07:31:49 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: UbuWeb Subject: Poets: Really, they=?utf-8?Q?=E2=80=99re_?= the laziest, stupidest people I know. Comments: To: ubuweb@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The following words are from Christian B=C3=B6k, responding during a Q&A se= ssion at Kelly Writers House, UPenn, November 18, 2009:=0A=0Ahttp://www.po= etryfoundation.org/harriet/2009/12/poets-really-theyre-the-laziest-stupides= t-people-i-know/=0A=0A=0AUbuWeb=0Ahttp://ubu.com=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 08:24:53 -1000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Gabrielle Welford Subject: Re: Peace Literature In-Reply-To: <20091205092022.DBO09447@mirapoint.jcu.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed dear mary, there's a poet here in ukiah, CA, David Smith-Ferri, who goes regularly to Iraq and has published a book of poetry about his experiences. i can put you in touch with him if you want. all best, gabe On Sat, 5 Dec 2009, Philip Metres wrote: > Mary, > > Please check out my website (see below) for some information about my course, "Literature of War and Peace." I'm very happy you're moving beyond literature of war. It's so played out as a focus, and can be irresponsible. After all, literature of war is part of the war culture. > > I know you're a little skittish about the poetry. But let me suggest BEHIND THE LINES: WAR RESISTANCE POETRY ON THE AMERICAN HOMEFRONT SINCE 1941 (2007), an examination of poets and the peace movement. The introduction and conclusion could be of particular use to you. Also an anthology which I co-edited, for which I wrote a useful introduction, COME TOGETHER: IMAGINE PEACE (2008). The intro, which you can read online (it's on Big Bridge), lays out the sort of wider lens of what peace poetry is about. > > There are great resources online--and you'll be able to find whole syllabi on the subject, but among the texts typically taught by me and others for an American lit course (though ideally, you'd go global!): > > CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE by Thoreau > something by Lev Tolstoy ("The Kingdom of God is Within You"?) > DAY BY DAY selected writings of Dorothy Day > DOWN IN MY HEART by William Stafford (about CO's in WWII) > THE TRIAL OF THE CATONSVILLE NINE by Daniel Berrigan > AN ATLAS OF THE DIFFICULT WORLD by Adrienne Rich > other poets, June Jordan, Allen Ginsberg, Muriel Rukeyser, Grace Paley, etc. > > Philip Metres > Associate Professor > Department of English > John Carroll University > 20700 N. Park Blvd > University Heights, OH 44118 > phone: (216) 397-4528 (work) > fax: (216) 397-1723 > http://www.philipmetres.com > http://www.behindthelinespoetry.blogspot.com > > "Those of us who had imagination circuits built can look in someone's face and see stories there; to everyone else, a face will be just a face." Kurt Vonnegut > > "...it doesn't matter whether we act or we write--the main thing isn't fame, glamour, or the things I dreamed about, it's knowing how to endure. I know how to shoulder my cross and I have faith. I have faith and it's not so painful for me, and when I think about my calling, I'm not afraid of life." Nina, from Chekhov's "Seagull" > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 14:03:04 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Vernon Frazer Subject: GLYPH PARTY by Vernon Frazer Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1077) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhVjchq6d-Q ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 10:17:04 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Kyle Schlesinger Subject: THREADS TALK SERIES @ PENNSOUND Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Threads, a series of talks curated by Steve Clay and Kyle Schlesinger, is devoted to the art of the book featuring poets, scholars, artists, and publishers. The objective for the series is to build on the discourse withi= n book arts to explore and enrich relationships between various strands of book culture that are often approached in isolation, for example poetry and writing, visual and performing arts, collaboration, design, printing, independent publishing, literary history, critical theory, and material culture to name a few. The talks were recorded before a small studio audience and are available for public consumption on PennSound. Eventually the series will be collected and published in book form. =20 Threads began in the spring of 2009 in New York City with talks by Alan Loney, Charles Alexander, Simon Cutts and Buzz Spector.* Additional recordings will be added periodically. Special thanks to Danny Snelson and PennSound for their ongoing support. =20 The recordings are now available for listening at PennSound: http://writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/Threads.php Cheers, =20 Kyle --=20 Kyle Schlesinger Cuneiform Press www.cuneiformpress.com *These sound recordings are being made available for noncommercial and educational use only. All rights to this recorded material belong to the speakers. =A9 2009 Threads Talk Series. Used with permission of Steve Clay an= d Kyle Schlesinger. Distributed by PennSound. =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 11:31:47 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mary Kasimor Subject: peace literature MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you for all your great ideas. I have been researching the books, and = many of them sound wonderful for this class.=20 =A0 I have been also looking for visual artists who have created art with peace= as a theme. I was thinkiing about Picasso's Guernica (sp); I didn't realiz= e that he created the peace dove.=20 =A0 I would appreciate any more ideas about literature, movies, visual art, and= music (not the obvious Peter, Paul, and Mary type songs, however).=20 =A0 Thank you. =A0 Mary Kasimor =A0 =A0=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 19:53:22 -0200 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Regina Pinto Subject: Project "AlphaAlpha" - More collaborations are already on line. Would you like to collaborate? In-Reply-To: <8397BCAFB08F4F3F89EB3EFAC7A69C55@ReginaPintoPC> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Project AlphaAlpha: NEW PAGES: http://arteonline.arq.br/a/a_randa_yto.html (Isabel Aranda - YTO - Chile) http://arteonline.arq.br/a/quatro.html (Regina Pinto- Brazil) http://arteonline.arq.br/a/s_a_tu.html (Satu KaikKonen - Finland) WHICH MORE PAGES ARE READY? http://arteonline.arq.br/a/a_ndrews.html (Jim Andrews - Canada) http://arteonline.arq.br/a/b_a_bel.html =A0(babel - Canada & UK) http://arteonline.arq.br/a/ver_a_bighetti.html (Vera Bighetti - Brazil) http://arteonline.arq.br/a/bruno_a.html =A0(Bruno - Brazil) http://arteonline.arq.br/a/fr_a_zao.html (Marcelo Fraz=E3o - Brazil) http://arteonline.arq.br/a/lis_a_hutton.html (Lisa Hutton - USA) http://arteonline.arq.br/a/a_neufeldt.html (Brigitte Neufeudt - Germany) http://arteonline.arq.br/a/niss_a.html (Millie Niss - USA) http://arteonline.arq.br/a/villel_a.html (Paulo Villela - Brazil) http://arteonline.arq.br/a_raceli_zuniga.html (Araceli Zu=F1iga- Mexico) Author's page that were already ready: http://arteonline.arq.br/a/um.html (Regina Pinto - Brazil) http://arteonline.arq.br/a/dois.html (Regina Pinto - Brazil) http://arteonline.arq.br/a/tres.html (Regina Pinto - Brazil) How to collaborate: Read the call at: http://arteonline.arq.br/a/call.htm =A0and ... PARTICIPAT= E! ------------------------------------------------------ All the best, Regina Pinto =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 15:44:43 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: =?ISO-8859-2?Q?Ana_Bo=BEi=E8evi=E6?= Subject: TOMORROW: Publication Party for Lost & Found: The CUNY Poetics Document Initiative! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear all, I want to draw your attention to an incredible initiative here at CUNY: a series of chapbooks bringing to life metapoetic materials annotated & edited by CUNY grad students and faculty. Come tomorrow for wine & free books! The chapbooks will also be available shortly via http://centerforthehumanitiesgc.org. The Center for the Humanities invites you to celebrate the publication of *The Amiri Baraka/Edward Dorn Correspondence* *The Kenneth Koch/Frank O=92Hara Letters: Selections* *Muriel Rukeyser: Darwin & the Writers* *Philip Whalen=92s Journals: Selections* *Robert Creeley: Contexts of Poetry, with selections from Daphne Marlatt=92s Journals* the inaugural chapbook series in Lost & Found: The CUNY Poetics Document Initiative Tuesday December 8th, 2009 6:30 pm The Skylight Room (9100) The Graduate Center, CUNY 365 Fifth Avenue at 34th Street New York City Introduction Ammiel Alcalay Readings and Presentations Stefania Heim, Claudia Moreno Pisano, Josh Schneiderman, Brian Unger, special guests David Henderson, Bill Berkson, and others Books and drinks for all! Lost & Found is a publication project emerging from archival and textual scholarship done by students at The Graduate Center, with the primary focus on writers falling under the rubric of the New American Poetry. Since accessibility to archival material proposes alternative, divergent and enriched versions of literary and cultural history, the Lost & Found initiative takes the New American rubric writ large, including the affiliated and unaffiliated, precursors and followers. For more information, please visit http://centerforthehumanitiesgc.org. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 15:21:06 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Peace Literature MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As a reader and sometimes contributer=2C i'd highly recommend Phillip Metre= s' blog=2C as well as his fascinating collection of anti-war verse=20 BEHIND THE LINES: WAR RESISTANCE POETRY ON THE AMERICAN HOMEFRONT SINCE 194= 1. The blog and book both raise many intersting and challenging questions=2C a= good deal of which have been for the most part have exiled to a more or le= ss extent from American poetry today. What does this say about the current = "atmosphere" of poetry=2C academically supported and otherwise? Is"quietude= " limited to only one form of "quiet" or ""silence"? Might not the term be = seen=2C heard and written of in a different comtext from that originally as= signed to it? There are some earlier collections from the 1960's which are quite good=3B = especially i'd recommend Walter Lowenfels' 101 AMERICAN POEMS OF PROTEST--w= hich has an amazing range among the 101 poems from al periods and "groups" = of persons in the US--including the famous statements of Vanzetti before hi= s and Saco's 1927 execution. The peaceful contributions of American Anarch= ists are often overlooked=2C except for Patchen perhaps.=20 Another book i'd highly recommend is: American Protest Literature With a Foreword by John Stauffer and an Afterw= ord by Howard Zinn Edited by Zoe Trodd from Harvard U Press-- From the Declaration of Independence and previous pamphlets to the War in I= raq this anthology has a really wide breadth of perspectives and writers--a= lotof terrific writing in the book=2C which contravenes the usual assumpti= on that "protest writing is bad writing." In re some of these questions of "protest/Peace writing is bad writing" I'= ve written two review/essays on line re what i consider one of the most sig= nificant books to emerge from the current wars:=20 Poems from Guant=E1namo: The Detainees Speak a collection of 22 poems by 17 detainees at the US detention center at Guant=E1namo Bay. Edited by Marc Falkoff David-Baptiste Chirot: "Waterboarding & Poetry" Wordforword #13 Spring 2008 (also has Visual Poetry by chirot)Kaurab Translation Site Poems from Guant=E1namo The Detainees Speak David Baptite Chirot In these two pieces I write not only of the poems=2C the book and its manne= r of translation=2C but also of the American reception of the poems in prin= t=2C radio and email (including this list=2C though without mentioning name= s) reviews and remarks. As with the generic opinions of protest poems--and/= or "poems of witness"-- being "bad poems" in formal terms=2C the Guantanamo= poems are considered as "failures" as poetry=2C which helps in evading any= of the issues associated with the book and its authors and translators. In= many ways=2C the poems reveal more about their American readers than about= the detainees themselves.=20 An interesting question for our times is why this convention of (and conven= tional) response is so widespread and expressed in the types of elitist=2C = formal=2C distanced=2C "complex and ambiguous" terms which protest protest= writing to begin with. It is interesting to me that it is not the War nor = the government nor practices of torture and illegal detention that are prot= ested against=2C as it were=2C but that the poems of protest which the war = has produced are. =20 In this vein i wrote a critique of Chalres Bernstein's "Enough=2C" addresse= d to the "community" as a call to evade the direct protest poem in favor of= a "complex ambiguous" language for dealing with the situation. The piece o= riginally appeard in galatearesurrection #3 and has been reprinted here and= in the UK a few times. The "Poets Against the War are considered inferior = because they are written in the same language Bush uses--(one might contest= this=3B did Bush speak poetically? etc)--that is=2C the poems openly expre= ss opposition rather than presenting a formally contructed poetic object ma= king use of a form of New New Criticism: the "complex=2C" "the ambiguous" = (seven types of ambiguity perhaps--??)--as response. As Amiri Baraka has re= marked=2C this perhaps a way of "playing it safe=3B" after all=2C if statem= ents are ambiguous=2C they might be difficult to "charge with dissent" by e= ither a prospective employer or this or that group supportive of the wars = =2C or agency of the government on campus etc. Unlike the avant-gardes of the past=2C which took the dual militaary meanin= g of the term seriously=2C today the avant does not openly express either p= ro-War attitudes (Italian futurism) or anti-War dissent (Dada.) Perhaps=2C = then=2C what "avant" has come to mean is a removal not only from War itself= =2C but from the aspects of War which signal an engagment with Peace or act= ually societies=2C human lives. That is=2C due to the emphasis on the Forma= l=2C there is a certain evacuation of resistence which might cause one "any= trouble." The sense of cautiousness and a form of fear and anxiety=2C echo= es in many ways the Eisenhower- McCarthy years and hence a connection with = aspects of the New Criticism of that era=2C which also stressed the Formal = over direct engagements with the times.=20 This area and conception of poetry in itself might be investigated along si= de the poems of protest and Peace=2C as another response which the society = has given to the wars being fought in its name.=20 For a great deal more of info and examples of poetry writing film music art= peace war and questions thereof one might check out also http://davidbaptistechirot.blogspot.com =20 Windows 7: Unclutter your desktop. Learn more. =20 _________________________________________________________________ Windows 7: Unclutter your desktop. Learn more. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/videos-tours.aspx?h=3D7sec&slide= id=3D1&media=3Daero-shake-7second&listid=3D1&stop=3D1&ocid=3DPID24727::T:WL= MTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_7secdemo:122009= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 10:14:05 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: amy king Subject: Gay may not be the new black, but .... Comments: To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Putting my foot in it again -- http://amyking.wordpress.com/2009/12/08/ga= y-may-not-be-the-=E2=80=9Cnew=E2=80=9D-black-but=E2=80=A6/=0A=0APlease be g= entle,=0A=0AAmy=0A=0A=0A=0A_______=0A=0ANEW BOOK=0ASlaves to Do These Thing= s -- http://www.blazevox.org/bk-ak3.htm =0A=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 19:00:09 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Camille Martin Subject: new at Rogue Embryo In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 New on my blog: * a matter of degree /of unfast night/ (an ars poetica) * de Sade in Amarillo, Texas * Ruth Lepson: slicing the calendar * double daddy long legs on plywood http://rogueembryo.wordpress.com Cheers! Camille Camille Martin http://www.camillemartin.ca http://rogueembryo.wordpress.ca =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 20:57:23 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve russell Subject: Re: Peace Literature In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I’ve always had a pr= Damn, almost forgot Patchen, Dave=0A=0A =0A=0AI=E2=80=99ve always had a pr= oblem with the word unimaginable.=0APeople use the word when they speak of = horror.=0A =0AIsn=E2=80=99t horror, cruelty, pedestrian?=0APerhaps I couldn= =E2=80=99t imagine genocide without having the=0Aconcept explained.=0AOrigi= nality is suspect. Original thoughts, dubious. =0A =0ABut a decent writer c= an certainly help me to understand most=0Aanything I haven=E2=80=99t experi= ence.d=0A =0AI=E2=80=99m not certain if I=E2=80=99ve ever had an original t= hought.=0AYeah, I=E2=80=99ve been creative.=0ABut creativity is common, chi= ldren are creative, children=0Aare commonplace creatures.=0A =0AWilfred Owe= n & company, the Brits, gave me a decent idea=0Aabout what it must have bee= n like to survive the 1st world war. Now=0AI can imagine the damn thing. = =0A =0A& protest poetry. What=E2=80=99s Celan writing? Hard to accuse=0Ahim= of being didactic. Ginsberg=E2=80=99s America poem doesn=E2=80=99t preach,= it merely says =E2=80=A6 living in America can fuck anyone up.=0A =0AGalwa= y Kinell wrote some decent war poetry. =0AYusef Kum =E2=80=A6 enyaka =E2=80= =A6 can=E2=80=99t spell =E2=80=A6 is a =E2=80=98nam vet, it=E2=80=99s his= =0ASubject.=0A =0APeace =E2=80=A6 rare =E2=80=A6 hard to confront =E2=80=A6= . Sort of UNimaginAble. =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AF= rom: David-Baptiste Chirot =0ATo: POETICS@LISTSER= V.BUFFALO.EDU=0ASent: Mon, December 7, 2009 1:21:06 PM=0ASubject: Peace Lit= erature=0A=0AAs a reader and sometimes contributer, i'd highly recommend Ph= illip Metres' blog, as well as his fascinating collection of anti-war verse= =0ABEHIND THE LINES: WAR RESISTANCE POETRY ON THE AMERICAN HOMEFRONT SINCE= 1941.=0A=0AThe blog and book both raise many intersting and challenging qu= estions, a good deal of which have been for the most part have exiled to a = more or less extent from American poetry today. What does this say about th= e current "atmosphere" of poetry, academically supported and otherwise? Is"= quietude" limited to only one form of "quiet" or ""silence"? Might not the = term be seen, heard and written of in a different comtext from that origina= lly assigned to it?=0A=0AThere are some earlier collections from the 1960's= which are quite good; especially i'd recommend Walter Lowenfels' 101 AMERI= CAN POEMS OF PROTEST--which has an amazing range among the 101 poems from a= l periods and "groups" of persons in the US--including the famous statement= s of Vanzetti before his and Saco's 1927 execution. The peaceful contribut= ions of American Anarchists are often overlooked, except for Patchen perhap= s. =0A=0AAnother book i'd highly recommend is:=0A=0AAmerican Protest Litera= ture With a Foreword by John Stauffer and an Afterword by Howard Zinn Edi= ted by Zoe Trodd from Harvard U Press--=0A=0A=0AFrom the Declaration of Ind= ependence and previous pamphlets to the War in Iraq this anthology has a re= ally wide breadth of perspectives and writers--a lotof terrific writing in = the book, which contravenes the usual assumption that "protest writing is b= ad writing."=0A=0AIn re some of these questions of "protest/Peace writing i= s bad writing" I've written two review/essays on line re what i consider o= ne of the most significant books to emerge from the current wars: =0A=0APoe= ms from Guant=C3=A1namo: The Detainees Speak a collection of 22=0Apoems by= 17 detainees at the US detention center at Guant=C3=A1namo Bay.=0AEdited b= y Marc Falkoff=0A=0A=0A=0ADavid-Baptiste Chirot: "Waterboarding & Poetry"= =0AWordforword #13 Spring 2008=0A(also has Visual Poetry by chirot)Kaurab T= ranslation Site=0APoems from Guant=C3=A1namo=0AThe Detainees Speak=0ADavid = Baptite Chirot=0A=0AIn these two pieces I write not only of the poems, the = book and its manner of translation, but also of the American reception of t= he poems in print, radio and email (including this list, though without men= tioning names) reviews and remarks. As with the generic opinions of protest= poems--and/or "poems of witness"-- being "bad poems" in formal terms, the = Guantanamo poems are considered as "failures" as poetry, which helps in eva= ding any of the issues associated with the book and its authors and transla= tors. In many ways, the poems reveal more about their American readers than= about the detainees themselves. =0A=0AAn interesting question for our time= s is why this convention of (and conventional) response is so widespread an= d expressed in the types of elitist, formal, distanced, "complex and ambigu= ous" terms which protest protest writing to begin with. It is interesting = to me that it is not the War nor the government nor practices of torture an= d illegal detention that are protested against, as it were, but that the po= ems of protest which the war has produced are. =0A=0AIn this vein i wrote = a critique of Chalres Bernstein's "Enough," addressed to the "community" as= a call to evade the direct protest poem in favor of a "complex ambiguous" = language for dealing with the situation. The piece originally appeard in ga= latearesurrection #3 and has been reprinted here and in the UK a few times.= The "Poets Against the War are considered inferior because they are writte= n in the same language Bush uses--(one might contest this; did Bush speak p= oetically? etc)--that is, the poems openly express opposition rather than p= resenting a formally contructed poetic object making use of a form of New N= ew Criticism: the "complex," "the ambiguous" (seven types of ambiguity per= haps--??)--as response. As Amiri Baraka has remarked, this perhaps a way of= "playing it safe;" after all, if statements are ambiguous, they might be d= ifficult to "charge with dissent" by either a prospective employer or this = or that group supportive of the wars , or agency of the government on campus etc.=0A=0AUnlike the avant-gardes of th= e past, which took the dual militaary meaning of the term seriously, today = the avant does not openly express either pro-War attitudes (Italian futuris= m) or anti-War dissent (Dada.) Perhaps, then, what "avant" has come to mean= is a removal not only from War itself, but from the aspects of War which s= ignal an engagment with Peace or actually societies, human lives. That is, = due to the emphasis on the Formal, there is a certain evacuation of resiste= nce which might cause one "any trouble." The sense of cautiousness and a fo= rm of fear and anxiety, echoes in many ways the Eisenhower- McCarthy years = and hence a connection with aspects of the New Criticism of that era, which= also stressed the Formal over direct engagements with the times. =0A=0AThi= s area and conception of poetry in itself might be investigated along side = the poems of protest and Peace, as another response which the society has g= iven to the wars being fought in its name. =0A=0AFor a great deal more of i= nfo and examples of poetry writing film music art peace war and questions t= hereof one might check out also=0Ahttp://davidbaptistechirot.blogspot.com= =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0AWindows= 7: Unclutter your desktop. Learn more. =0A______= ___________________________________________________________=0AWindows 7: Un= clutter your desktop. Learn more.=0Ahttp://www.microsoft.com/windows/window= s-7/videos-tours.aspx?h=3D7sec&slideid=3D1&media=3Daero-shake-7second&listi= d=3D1&stop=3D1&ocid=3DPID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_7secdemo:1220= 09=0A=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0AThe Poetics List is moderated & does no= t accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.e= du/poetics/welcome.html=0A=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 21:29:56 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Wallis Leslie Subject: Re: peace literature In-Reply-To: <545597.8847.qm@web51804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Mary, =C2=A0 There is an old hymn "Joy Joy Joy Joy down in my heart," and one of the ver= ses is about peace: =C2=A0 I=E2=80=99ve got the peace that passes understanding, Down in my heart, Where? Down in my heart! Where? Down in my heart! I=E2=80=99ve got the peace that passes understanding, down in my heart down in my heart to stay. enjoy peacefully, Wallis Leslie --- On Sun, 12/6/09, Mary Kasimor wrote: From: Mary Kasimor Subject: peace literature To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Sunday, December 6, 2009, 11:31 AM Thank you for all your great ideas. I have been researching the books, and = many of them sound wonderful for this class.=20 =C2=A0 I have been also looking for visual artists who have created art with peace= as a theme. I was thinkiing about Picasso's Guernica (sp); I didn't realiz= e that he created the peace dove.=20 =C2=A0 I would appreciate any more ideas about literature, movies, visual art, and= music (not the obvious Peter, Paul, and Mary type songs, however).=20 =C2=A0 Thank you. =C2=A0 Mary Kasimor =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines= & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 03:55:49 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Asian Cha Subject: Second Anniversary Issue of CHA Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain Second Anniversary Issue of Cha: An Asian Literary Journal We are pleased to announce that the second anniversary issue of Cha has n= ow=20 been launched. It features a new editorial reflecting on the journal's fi= rst two=20 years written by co-editor Jeff Zroback. The following writers/artists ha= ve=20 generously allowed us to showcase their work: Ankur Agarwal, Viona Au=20 Yeung, Steve Ausherman, Iain S. Baird, Bob Bradshaw, Caroline Bird, Drew=20= Calvert, Kevin Chan, Stuart Christie, Melody S. Gee, Bernard Henrie, Arle= ne=20 Kim, Lillian Kwok, Mark Malby, Edgar Y.B. Mao, Reid Mitchell, Moira Moody= ,=20 Aryanil Mukherjee, Kristine Ong Muslim, Priyadarshi Patnaik, Craig Santos= =20 Perez, Donna Pucciani, Kate Rogers, Vera Schwarcz, Kirpal Singh, Lee Minh= =20 Sloca, C. P. Stewart, Ira Sukrungruang, Phoebe Tsang, Alice Tsay, Anna Yi= n=20 and Yong Shu Hoong. =20 We would like to thank our guest editors Reid Mitchell (poetry) and Jonat= han=20 Mendelsohn (prose) who read the submissions with us. They were the perfec= t=20 readers: opinionated, patient and insightful. We would also like to point= out that=20 our Reviews section, under the strong leadership of our Reviews Editor Ed= die=20 Tay, continues to grow. If you have a book you would like reviewed or you= =20 would like to review a book, please contact Eddie at eddie@asiancha.com. =20 We would also like to officially welcome two former contributors and gues= t=20 editors to our regular staff. Reid Mitchell has agreed to be Cha=92s Cons= ulting=20 Editor; he has been helping us with the journal since its inception and i= s=20 instrumental in the running of Cha. Bob Bradshaw is now our valued Tea Ta= ster=20 for our A Cup of Fine Tea critique column. Bob consistently provides us w= ith his=20 insightful comments on the work we select to discuss. Cha is run entirely= on a=20 voluntary basis and we are really grateful to have Reid and Bob on board = to=20 help make the journal better. =20 Finally, our tenth issue is due out in February 2010. We are very happy t= o say=20 that we have our first female guest editor! Poet and three-time Cha contr= ibutor=20 Gillian Sze will lend us her expertise to select work for the next issue.= The=20 deadline for submissions is January 10th. If you have a piece you think w= ould=20 be right for Cha, please do not hesitate to submit. =20 We hope that you enjoy the new issue. =20 Tammy Ho & Jeff Zroback Cha http://www.asiancha.com=20 http://finecha.wordpress.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 10:18:41 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: amy king Subject: Where I'll be tonight - Lost & Found Publication Party In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am told that Frank O'Hara's sister will be in attendance and may e= =0A =0AI am told that Frank O'Hara's sister will be in attendance and may e= ven say a few words. Free chapbooks from this project will be given to eve= ryone as well - see you there? =0A=0A=0A=0ADon=E2=80=99t forget to join us= today!For those of you who can=E2=80=99t be there and have written with in= terest in purchasing=0Athe chapbooks, please stay tuned; they will soon be = available via http://centerforthehumanitiesgc.org/.=0AWe=E2=80=99ll keep yo= u posted. And thank you for supporting Lost&Found!=0A =0A =0A =0Ainvites yo= u=0Ato celebrate the publication of =0A =0AThe Amiri Baraka/Edward Dorn =0A= Correspondence =0A =0AThe Kenneth Koch/Frank O=E2=80=99Hara=0ALetters: =0AS= elections=0A =0AMuriel Rukeyser: =0ADarwin & the Writers=0A =0APhilip Whale= n=E2=80=99s Journals: =0ASelections=0A =0ARobert Creeley: Contexts of=0APoe= try, with selections from =0ADaphne Marlatt=E2=80=99s Journals=0A =0Athe=0A= inaugural chapbook series in=0A =0ATuesday=0ADecember 8th, 2009=0A6:30 pm= =0A =0AThe Skylight Room (9100)=0AThe Graduate=0ACenter, CUNY=0A365 Fifth= =0AAvenue at 34th Street=0ANew York=0ACity=0A =0AIntroduction=0AAmmiel=0AAl= calay=0A =0AReadings and=0APresentations =0AStefania=0AHeim, Claudia Moreno= Pisano, Josh Schneiderman, Brian Unger, =0Aspecial guestsDavid=0AHenderson= , Bill Berkson, and others=0A =0ABooks and=0Adrinks for all!=0A =0ALost & F= ound is a publication project emerging from archival and textual scholarshi= p=0Adone by students at The Graduate Center, with the primary focus on writ= ers=0Afalling under the rubric of the New American Poetry. Since accessibil= ity to=0Aarchival material proposes alternative, divergent and enriched ver= sions of=0Aliterary and cultural history, the Lost & Found initiative takes= the New=0AAmerican rubric writ large, including the affiliated and unaffil= iated,=0Aprecursors and followers. For more information, please visit=0Ahtt= p://centerforthehumanitiesgc.org/=0A =0A =0A=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 17:00:33 +0530 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Uddipana Goswami Subject: Re: Peace Literature In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Dear Mary, My book, *We Called the River Red: Poetry from a Violent Homeland* has just been published by Authors Press, Delhi. The book is set in Assam in Northeast India, a region of rich indigenous cultures but also of insurgency, ethnic conflicts and consequent militarization. It tries to portray how in times of political turbulence and social upheavals, the individual must understand that love and the agony of personal loss are not independent of the larger social, historical and political milieu. The poet's sense of responsibility -- towards her identity, community and nation -- is reflected in this collection. Leading up to the point where the personal entity is increasingly fused with the political identity, it ends with a prayer for peace in times of political conflicts and social turmoil plaguing the violent homeland. I am a poet, researcher and media consultant, as well as Assamese literature editor of *Muse India*, a literary e-journal. I have been addressing issues of ethnicity, nationalism, migration, displacement, conflicts and reconciliation in Northeast India through my writings. I blog at www.jajabori-mon.blogspot.com. Best Uddipana On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 11:54 PM, Gabrielle Welford wrote: > dear mary, there's a poet here in ukiah, CA, David Smith-Ferri, who goes > regularly to Iraq and has published a book of poetry about his experiences. > i can put you in touch with him if you want. all best, gabe > > > On Sat, 5 Dec 2009, Philip Metres wrote: > > Mary, >> >> Please check out my website (see below) for some information about my >> course, "Literature of War and Peace." I'm very happy you're moving beyond >> literature of war. It's so played out as a focus, and can be irresponsible. >> After all, literature of war is part of the war culture. >> >> I know you're a little skittish about the poetry. But let me suggest >> BEHIND THE LINES: WAR RESISTANCE POETRY ON THE AMERICAN HOMEFRONT SINCE 1941 >> (2007), an examination of poets and the peace movement. The introduction >> and conclusion could be of particular use to you. Also an anthology which I >> co-edited, for which I wrote a useful introduction, COME TOGETHER: IMAGINE >> PEACE (2008). The intro, which you can read online (it's on Big Bridge), >> lays out the sort of wider lens of what peace poetry is about. >> >> There are great resources online--and you'll be able to find whole syllabi >> on the subject, but among the texts typically taught by me and others for an >> American lit course (though ideally, you'd go global!): >> >> CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE by Thoreau >> something by Lev Tolstoy ("The Kingdom of God is Within You"?) >> DAY BY DAY selected writings of Dorothy Day >> DOWN IN MY HEART by William Stafford (about CO's in WWII) >> THE TRIAL OF THE CATONSVILLE NINE by Daniel Berrigan >> AN ATLAS OF THE DIFFICULT WORLD by Adrienne Rich >> other poets, June Jordan, Allen Ginsberg, Muriel Rukeyser, Grace Paley, >> etc. >> >> Philip Metres >> Associate Professor >> Department of English >> John Carroll University >> 20700 N. Park Blvd >> University Heights, OH 44118 >> phone: (216) 397-4528 (work) >> fax: (216) 397-1723 >> http://www.philipmetres.com >> http://www.behindthelinespoetry.blogspot.com >> >> "Those of us who had imagination circuits built can look in someone's face >> and see stories there; to everyone else, a face will be just a face." Kurt >> Vonnegut >> >> "...it doesn't matter whether we act or we write--the main thing isn't >> fame, glamour, or the things I dreamed about, it's knowing how to endure. I >> know how to shoulder my cross and I have faith. I have faith and it's not >> so painful for me, and when I think about my calling, I'm not afraid of >> life." Nina, from Chekhov's "Seagull" >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > -- Uddipana Goswami www.jajabori-mon.blogspot.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 16:25:32 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: CUE Books Subject: CUE Books | Fall 2009 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" CUE Books | Fall 2009 Capilano University Editions announces two new titles for Fall 2009: OTHER Soma Feldmar 6 x 8, 72pp ISBN 978-0-9810122-7-8 15.00 "Soma Feldmar's Other is a wonderful extended meditation on questions bot= h ancient and timely: questions that arise from naming, play, politics, in the virtual and actual games of life and language, treated with a quick w= it that does not exclude feelings for "the other." Some lines dance down the= page, others embed themselves in great paratactic blocks of language. Thi= s is poetry philosophical but never pompous, stylish but never just fashionable--which is to say, rare!" - Anselm Hollo "Through the deft use of sampling and sequencing, imagistic clarity and stutterstep displacement, Soma Feldmar builds a series of condensed, refracted parallels to everyday life. Her serial meditations construct a knowing subject out of the welter of diverse thoughts with sure-footed assurance. A voice emerges between language and image that is capable of interrogating both. This is serious play, delightful inquiry, insightful meditation, intelligent work." - Barrett Watten =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D OPEN TEXT: CANADIAN POETRY AND POETICS IN THE 21ST CENTURY (VOL.2). edited by Roger Farr 6 x 8, 124pp ISBN: 978-0-9810122-6-1 16.00 Poems by Shirley Bear, Ken Belford, Ted Byrne, Angela carr, Steve Collis,= Wayde Compton, Kim Duff, Phinder Dulai, Emily Fedoruk, Reg Johanson, Christine Leclerc, Daphne Marlatt, Roy Miki, Jordan Scott, and Fred Wah. "The intent of this collection is not to announce that something has arrived or that something has passed, or worse, to put on display a numbe= r of "finely wrought" or "best of" curiosities; rather the aim is only to pause the hyper-accelerated production of Canadian literary culture just for a second, so we might get a better look at it, and then to move on." - Roger Farr, from the Introduction Order http://www.cuebooks.ca/orders.php Info contact@cuebooks.ca ~ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 10:27:43 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mary Kasimor Subject: Re: Peace Literature In-Reply-To: <899564.52916.qm@web52408.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Saying that I love Kenneth Patchen sounds trite--but it is true. Mary --- On Mon, 12/7/09, steve russell wrote: From: steve russell Subject: Re: Peace Literature To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Monday, December 7, 2009, 10:57 PM I=E2=80=99ve always had a pr Damn, almost forgot Patchen, Dave =C2=A0=20 I=E2=80=99ve always had a problem with the word unimaginable. People use the word when they speak of horror. Isn=E2=80=99t horror, cruelty, pedestrian? Perhaps I couldn=E2=80=99t imagine genocide without having the concept explained. Originality is suspect. Original thoughts, dubious.=20 But a decent writer can certainly help me to understand most anything I haven=E2=80=99t experience.d I=E2=80=99m not certain if I=E2=80=99ve ever had an original thought. Yeah, I=E2=80=99ve been creative. But creativity is common, children are creative, children are commonplace creatures. Wilfred Owen & company, the Brits, gave me a decent idea about what it must have been like to survive the 1st world war. Now I can imagine the damn thing.=20 & protest poetry. What=E2=80=99s Celan writing? Hard to accuse him of being didactic. Ginsberg=E2=80=99s America poem doesn=E2=80=99t prea= ch, it merely says =E2=80=A6 living in America can fuck anyone up. Galway Kinell wrote some decent war poetry.=20 Yusef Kum =E2=80=A6 enyaka =E2=80=A6 can=E2=80=99t spell =E2=80=A6 is a =E2= =80=98nam vet, it=E2=80=99s his Subject. Peace =E2=80=A6 rare =E2=80=A6 hard to confront =E2=80=A6. Sort of UNimagin= Able.=20 ________________________________ From: David-Baptiste Chirot To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Mon, December 7, 2009 1:21:06 PM Subject: Peace Literature As a reader and sometimes contributer, i'd highly recommend Phillip Metres'= blog, as well as his fascinating collection of anti-war verse=20 BEHIND THE LINES: WAR RESISTANCE POETRY ON THE AMERICAN HOMEFRONT SINCE 194= 1. The blog and book both raise many intersting and challenging questions, a g= ood deal of which have been for the most part have exiled to a more or less= extent from American poetry today. What does this say about the current "a= tmosphere" of poetry, academically supported and otherwise? Is"quietude" li= mited to only one form of "quiet" or ""silence"? Might not the term be seen= , heard and written of in a different comtext from that originally assigned= to it? There are some earlier collections from the 1960's which are quite good; es= pecially i'd recommend Walter Lowenfels' 101 AMERICAN POEMS OF PROTEST--whi= ch has an amazing range among the 101 poems from al periods and "groups" of= persons in the US--including the famous statements of Vanzetti before his = and Saco's 1927 execution.=C2=A0 The peaceful contributions of American Ana= rchists are often overlooked, except for Patchen perhaps.=20 Another book i'd highly recommend is: American Protest Literature=C2=A0 With a Foreword by John Stauffer and an A= fterword by Howard Zinn=C2=A0 Edited by Zoe Trodd from Harvard U Press-- From the Declaration of Independence and previous pamphlets to the War in I= raq this anthology has a really wide breadth of perspectives and writers--a= lotof terrific writing in the book, which contravenes the usual assumption= that "protest writing is bad writing." In re some of these questions of "protest/Peace writing is bad writing"=C2= =A0 I've written two review/essays on line re what i consider one of the mo= st significant books to emerge from the current wars:=20 Poems from Guant=C3=A1namo: The Detainees Speak=C2=A0 a collection of 22 poems by 17 detainees at the US detention center at Guant=C3=A1namo Bay. Edited by Marc Falkoff David-Baptiste Chirot: "Waterboarding & Poetry" Wordforword #13 Spring 2008 (also has Visual Poetry by chirot)Kaurab Translation Site Poems from Guant=C3=A1namo The Detainees Speak David Baptite Chirot In these two pieces I write not only of the poems, the book and its manner = of translation, but also of the American reception of the poems in print, r= adio and email (including this list, though without mentioning names) revie= ws and remarks. As with the generic opinions of protest poems--and/or "poem= s of witness"-- being "bad poems" in formal terms, the Guantanamo poems are= considered as "failures" as poetry, which helps in evading any of the issu= es associated with the book and its authors and translators. In many ways, = the poems reveal more about their American readers than about the detainees= themselves.=20 An interesting question for our times is why this convention of (and conven= tional) response is so widespread and expressed in the types of elitist, fo= rmal, distanced, "complex and ambiguous" terms=C2=A0 which protest protest = writing to begin with. It is interesting to me that it is not the War nor t= he government nor practices of torture and illegal detention that are prote= sted against, as it were, but that the poems of protest which the war has p= roduced are.=C2=A0=20 In this vein i wrote a critique of Chalres Bernstein's "Enough," addressed = to the "community" as a call to evade the direct protest poem in favor of a= "complex ambiguous" language for dealing with the situation. The piece ori= ginally appeard in galatearesurrection #3 and has been reprinted here and i= n the UK a few times. The "Poets Against the War are considered inferior be= cause they are written in the same language Bush uses--(one might contest t= his; did Bush speak poetically? etc)--that is, the poems openly express opp= osition rather than presenting a formally contructed poetic object making u= se of a form of New New Criticism:=C2=A0 the "complex," "the ambiguous" (se= ven types of ambiguity perhaps--??)--as response. As Amiri Baraka has remar= ked, this perhaps a way of "playing it safe;" after all, if statements are = ambiguous, they might be difficult to "charge with dissent" by either a pro= spective employer or this or that group supportive of the wars , or agency of the government on campus etc. Unlike the avant-gardes of the past, which took the dual militaary meaning = of the term seriously, today the avant does not openly express either pro-W= ar attitudes (Italian futurism) or anti-War dissent (Dada.) Perhaps, then, = what "avant" has come to mean is a removal not only from War itself, but fr= om the aspects of War which signal an engagment with Peace or actually soci= eties, human lives. That is, due to the emphasis on the Formal, there is a = certain evacuation of resistence which might cause one "any trouble." The s= ense of cautiousness and a form of fear and anxiety, echoes in many ways th= e Eisenhower- McCarthy years and hence a connection with aspects of the New= Criticism of that era, which also stressed the Formal over direct engageme= nts with the times.=20 This area and conception of poetry in itself might be investigated along si= de the poems of protest and Peace, as another response which the society ha= s given to the wars being fought in its name.=20 For a great deal more of info and examples of poetry writing film music art= peace war and questions thereof one might check out also http://davidbaptistechirot.blogspot.com =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=20 Windows 7: Unclutter your desktop. Learn more.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 _________________________________________________________________ Windows 7: Unclutter your desktop. Learn more. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/videos-tours.aspx?h=3D7sec&slide= id=3D1&media=3Daero-shake-7second&listid=3D1&stop=3D1&ocid=3DPID24727::T:WL= MTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_7secdemo:122009 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines= & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines= & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 10:53:42 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Comments: RFC822 error: Invalid RFC822 field - "Takes Readers Back in Time to Chronicle a Chapter in the Histor=". Rest of header flushed. From: Paul Nelson Subject: A Time Before Slaughter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Epic Poem=0ATakes Readers Back in Time to Chronicle a Chapter in the Histor= y of the=0AAmerican Northwest=0AWashingtonPoet Follows in Tradition of Will= iams and Olson=0A =0A Slaughter, Washington, was named in=0Amemo= ry of Lieutenant William Slaughter, who was killed in a skirmish with=0AInd= ians in 1855. While original settlers=0Aconsidered it a memorial, newcomer= s grew uneasy with the ironic appellation and=0Asoon changed the town=E2=80= =99s name to Auburn.=0A More than a=0Acentury later, poet Paul N= elson re-explores this town=E2=80=99s history in verse, and=0Ahas created a= masterpiece in the spirit of classic collages of place penned by=0AAmerica= n modernists.=0AIn A Time Before Slaughter, Nelson surveys the history of t= his=0Aparticular Northwestern place from the myths of Native people to the = xenophobia=0Atoward Japanese-Americans, from the urge to control to the hun= ger for=0Aliberation. In a compelling mixture of verse and prose, historica= l documents=0Aand native language, Nelson ushers the reader through events= =E2=80=94at times=0Abeautiful, at times horrific=E2=80=94that shaped Auburn= =E2=80=99s=0Ahistory. Leap from men=E2=80=99s attempt to=0Aalter nature (= =E2=80=9CThey done blowd up the river!=E2=80=9D) to their reverence for it = (=E2=80=9CShe=0Awho taps the never-ending flow can withstand every parlor t= rick Slaughter could=0Aever conjure with the rare commitment to=0Aevery bl= ossoming every species has ever known=E2=80=9D).=0ANelson, who spent nearly= fifteen=0Ayears on the project, writes in the tradition of American place = epic poems such=0Aas William Carlos Williams=E2=80=99 Paterson and=0ACharle= s Olson=E2=80=99s The Maximus Poems. =0A=E2=80=9CI felt that it was critica= l=0Afor poets to tell the=0Astory of the town in which they lived,=E2=80=9D= he said. =E2=80=9CWe can=E2=80=99t depend on journalism anymore in an=0Aa= ge of Fox News, but the poem=E2=80=94done right=E2=80=94has always been new= s that stays news.=E2=80=9D=0ABeat poet Michael McClure called A Time Befor= e Slaughter =E2=80=9Cone more big=0Ahunk of the American shoulder, as Olson= carved his from the North East, Nelson=0Atakes his from the Pacific North = West.=E2=80=9D And Sam Hamill, Copper Canyon Press founder, extended the c= omparison to=0AWilliams=E2=80=99 work, only with Nelson=E2=80=99s unique vo= ice and geography. =0A Nelson=E2=80=99s=0Awriting sty= le is fierce, playful, and dynamic. He interweaves the past with the prese= nt, incorporating sections called=0A=E2=80=9CAmerican Sentences=E2=80=9D to= give running commentary on American life. More than anything, Nelson beli= eves that unless=0Awe understand the lessons history teaches, we are doomed= to repeat it.=0A=E2=80=9CI believe readers and=0Alisteners will see parall= els between the historical events in the book and=0Acurrent events, and may= be moved to reflect and perhaps to act,=E2=80=9D he said. =E2=80=9CI also= believe that, if they are open,=0Athey=E2=80=99ll find that the poems have= the ability to move them to a different state=0Aof consciousness.=E2=80=9D= =0A Nelson is founder of the nonprofit=0AGlobal Voices Radio and= co-founder of the Northwest SPokenword LAB (SPLAB!). A=0Aradio broadcaster= from 1980 to 2006, he has interviewed hundreds of authors,=0Apoets, activi= sts, and whole-system theorists for a syndicated public affairs=0Aradio pro= gram. He is also past president of the Washington Poets Association. =0A = =0AContact Apprentice=0AHouse at info@apprenticehouse.comContact Paul Nelso= n at splabman@yahoo.com=0A Paul E. Nelson =0A=0AGlobal Voices Radio=0ASPLAB= !=0A=0AC. City, WA 206.422.5002 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 11:40:04 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve russell Subject: Re: peace literature In-Reply-To: <545597.8847.qm@web51804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable the acclaimed popular movie "HOtel Rwanda" is worth a look, especially as i= t concerns the topic of reconciliation. Still, there's been concern about t= he movie's profits, that the producers simply took the profits without rega= rd for the tragedy.=20 =A0 I wonder if there's a mature children's book on the topic of peace. With ex= ceptional artwork.=20 Or a conflict resolution teen & up book. Or maybe ... the Newseum in Washin= gton, D.C. may have an archives of war photography that can be downloaded. =A0 & the Iliad:=A0that one pretty much sums up the motivations that=A0may=A0fe= ul just about...=A0 --- On Sun, 12/6/09, Mary Kasimor wrote: From: Mary Kasimor Subject: peace literature To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Sunday, December 6, 2009, 2:31 PM Thank you for all your great ideas. I have been researching the books, and = many of them sound wonderful for this class.=20 =A0 I have been also looking for visual artists who have created art with peace= as a theme. I was thinkiing about Picasso's Guernica (sp); I didn't realiz= e that he created the peace dove.=20 =A0 I would appreciate any more ideas about literature, movies, visual art, and= music (not the obvious Peter, Paul, and Mary type songs, however).=20 =A0 Thank you. =A0 Mary Kasimor =A0 =A0 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines= & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 17:08:40 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: An Advertising Opportunity for You in The Portable Boog Reader 4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, In just three weeks we'll be putting out our fourth Portable Boog =20 Reader, our annual anthology of New York City poetry, this year =20 featuring a special section of D.C. metro area poetry. The New York =20 City section is a collaborative effort of four editors?Sommer =20 Browning, Joanna Fuhrman, Urayo=E1n Noel, and me, David =20 Kirschenbaum?while Cathy Eisenhower and Maureen Thorson have selected =20 the work for the D.C. metro area section. In all, 72 different poets =20 will be included in our largest issue of the year. Advertising in the Portable Boog Reader issue of Boog City means you =20 will reach more than 3,000 readers, poetry lovers, and small press =20 aficionados throughout the East Village, other targeted areas of lower =20 Manhattan; Williamsburg and Greenpoint, Brooklyn; as well as bonus =20 distribution at Boog City's monthly events, and the annual New Year's =20 Day poetry marathons at the Poetry Project at St. Mark's Church and =20 The Bowery Poetry Club. That's an increase of 33.3% over our regular =20 issues for no additional cost. And, since this issue is an anthology =20 of poetry, that means it will be held onto much longer by our readers =20 as they read through the poems, many holding onto the issue for future =20 readings. Boog City continues to offer our special Small Press Ad Rates. That =20 means when you advertise with us you will save 50% off of our regular =20 display ad rates, making the adjusted Small Press Ad Rates: * Full Page $220 * Half-Page $130 * Quarter-Page $70 * Eighth-Page $40 Here is a link to our full rate card: http://www.welcometoboogcity.com/ad_rates.pdf We look forward to working with you to bring your message to the local =20 arts community to increase awareness and sales of your publications in =20 the New York area. as ever, David --=20 David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W. 28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://welcometoboogcity.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 17:13:22 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Adam Katz Subject: Re: peace literature In-Reply-To: <233474.93013.qm@web52401.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 "Peace" is the last word of Shakespeare's Cymbeline. That play is really badass. Peace is a central theme in it, tho it is difficultly achieved - the final scene, where all the confusions are resolved and order is brought out of chaos, is epic. Tho if your students have trouble with poetry, they may have trouble with the writing in Cymbeline, which seems intentionally dense and confusing. But I think that's the peace play, Shakespeare-wise. Last lines (which James Joyce really liked): * *Laud we the gods; And let our crooked smokes climb to their nostrils From our blest altars. Publish we this peace To all our subjects. Set we forward: let A Roman and a British ensign wave Friendly together: so through Lud's-town march: And in the temple of great Jupiter Our peace we'll ratify; seal it with feasts. Set on there! Never was a war did cease, Ere bloody hands were wash'd, with such a peace. [Exeunt] ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 13:10:43 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve russell Subject: Re: Peace Literature MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ...: there must be plenty of native American lore worth a look. I think the book Black Elk Speaks acts as a vision journal with illustrations (read it when i was a teen). Vine Deloria Jr. has written extensively on the contemporary ways that this conflict still endures. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 15:26:43 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Poetry Project Subject: Letter from the Director Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable December 8th, 2009 =20 Dear Friends, =20 The Poetry Project community has sustained and developed this organization for over forty years and we need your strength and support more than ever. As some of you know, The Poetry Project=B9s situation with St. Mark=B9s Church is in the process of changing due to on-going lease negotiations. We anticipate a substantial rent increase and possible changes in our programming. We will keep you posted as the facts become clear. =20 We are very excited to let you know that renowned photographer Kate Simon has donated twelve different prints featuring William S. Burroughs to assis= t us in our fundraising efforts. Simon photographed Burroughs from 1975 until his death in 1997. You=B9ll recognize some of the photographs as they grace many of his publications while others have only been printed for this occasion. Each print is signed by Simon with a description of the scene and the year taken in her script. =20 We are offering one Simon print of your choice for the purchase of a Patron Membership ($1,000 or above) or any donation above $1,000. Believe us when we say this is a rare opportunity for you to own an original work of art. For more information email us at info@poetryproject.org or view the images at our online store at http://poetryproject.bigcartel.com/category/artwork. =20 Of course, you can also support us by becoming a Member at any level, and you can do so online here: http://poetryproject.org/get-involved/become-a-member or send a check to Th= e Poetry Project, 131 E. 10th St. New York, NY 10003. =20 In closing, we hope you=B9ll begin 2010 with us at the 36th Annual New Year=B9s Day Marathon Reading on Friday, January 1st at 2pm. As you know, this event is our largest fundraiser and a manifestation of your devotion to the work we do!=20 =20 Warm Regards. =20 Stacy Szymaszek Artistic Director =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 11:29:24 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Joshua Adams Subject: ***NEW ISSUE OF CHICAGO REVIEW*** In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 *** CHICAGO REVIEW is pleased to announce the publication of issue 55:1: SEVEN POETS FROM BERLIN, edited and introduced by Christian Hawkey. Featuring: POEMS by Daniel Falb, Monika Rinck, Hendrik Jackson, Uljana Wolf, Steffen Popp, Sabine Scho, and Ron Winkler & TRANSLATIONS by Christian Hawkey, Nicholas Grindell, Nicholas Perrin, Catherine Hales, Susan Bernofsky, J.D. Schneider and Andrea Scott as well as: FICTION by Jorge Edwards and Deb Olin Unferth an INTERVIEW with Jorge Edwards ESSAYS by Jeffrey Yang and J.H. Prynne plus REVIEWS and NOTES! To order or subscribe, visit: http://humanities.uchicago.edu/orgs/review/ *** CHICAGO REVIEW 5801 South Kenwood Chicago, IL 60637 http://humanities.uchicago.edu/review ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 15:00:22 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: amy king Subject: Ever hear of "The Family"? The new Free Masons...? Comments: To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The Family -- http://amyking.wordpress.com/2009/12/09/fear-or-disinterest-the-powers-that-be/ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 00:54:45 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David Kirschenbaum Subject: Boog's NYC Small Presses Night this Tues. Dec. 15 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable please forward ------------------- Boog City presents d.a. levy lives: celebrating the renegade press New York City Small Presses Night with Flying Guillotine Press Litmus Press/Aufgabe Mal-o-mar Editions Mermaid Tenement Press The North Beach Yacht Club 3 Sad Tigers Press this Tues. Dec. 15, 6:00 p.m. sharp, free ACA Galleries 529 W.20th St., 5th Flr. NYC This is our one event each season in our non-NYC small presses series =20= where we honor NYC small presses. Featuring readings from some of the city's finest small presses as well as publications available from each of the presses. **Flying Guillotine Press, Sommer Browning and Tony Mancus, eds. --Angela Veronica Wong **Litmus Press/Aufgabe, E. Tracy Grinnell, ed. --Stacy Szymaszek **Mal-o-mar Editions, Ariana Reines, ed. --Jason Burns **Mermaid Tenement Press, Laura Hinton, ed. **The North Beach Yacht Club, Ryan Murphy, ed. **3 Sad Tigers Press, Mariana Ruiz Firmat, ed. There will be wine, cheese, and crackers, too. Curated and with an introduction by Boog City editor David Kirschenbaum -- Boog City 60, our New York City Small Presses Issue, published in conjunction with the above event, with pages put together by the participating six presses, featuring work from: **Flying Guillotine Press--Steve Karl, Angela Veronica Wong **Litmus Press/Aufgabe--Kari Edwards, Stacy Szymaszek **Mal-o-mar Editions--Charles Baudelaire **Mermaid Tenement Press--Abigail Child, Norma Cole **3 Sad Tigers Press--Brenda Borofsky Serpick As well as your usual swell Boog City content: Reviews of new Prewar =20 Yardsale album; books from Jennifer Scappettone and Noelle Kocot; =20 poems from Mike Carlson, Elsbeth Pancrazi, and Christine Shook; and =20 art from Alan Gastelum. To read the pdf version go to: http://welcometoboogcity.com/boogpdfs/bc60.pdf -- Press and author bios **Flying Guillotine Press http://flyingguillotinepress.blogspot.com/ In 2008, Tony Mancus and Sommer Browning, two friends from poetry =20 school, started Flying Guillotine Press. They endeavor to make pretty, =20= small, handbound, medulla oblongata-exploding poetry chapbooks =20 cheaply. They work in Brooklyn and Arlington, Va. *Angela Veronica Wong http://smartstuff.blogspot.com/ Angela Veronica Wong is a poet living in New York City. Her Flying =20 Guillotine Press chapbook, All the Little Red Girls, is out this fall =20= and another chapbook, to know this, is forthcoming from Cy Gist Press. **Litmus Press/Aufgabe http://www.litmuspress.org/ Litmus Press is the publishing program of Ether Sea Projects, a 501(c)=20= (3) non-profit literature and arts organization dedicated to =20 supporting innovative, cross-genre writing, with an emphasis on poetry =20= and international works in translation. Litmus aims to foster local, =20 national, and international dialogue and interaction by presenting =20 original writing from the U.S. alongside translations into English. By =20= supporting translators, poets, and other writers, and by organizing =20 and participating in public events, they hope to illuminate the =20 fundamental common bond between languages and to actualize the =20 potential linguistic, cultural, and political benefits of literary =20 exchange on the international level. Litmus seeks to provide =20 continuing and consistently high-quality venues for such exchange and =20= discussion to ensure that our poetic communities remain open-minded =20 and vital. *Stacy Szymaszek http://www.litmuspress.org/hyperglossia.html Stacy Szymaszek is the author of Emptied of All Ships (Litmus) as well =20= as many chapbooks, most recently Orizaba: A Voyage With Hart Crane =20 (Faux) and Stacy S: Autoportraits (OMG!). Hyperglossia was just =20 published by Litmus Press. She is the editor of Gam and the artistic =20 director of The Poetry Project at St. Mark=92s Church. **Mal-o-mar Editions http://mal-o-mar.blogspot.com/ Mal-o-mar Editions, a publishing outfit specializing in extremes of =20 urgency and artifice, was founded in 2007 by Stan Maarm. *Jason Burns http://thedaydoesntcareifyoureinit.blogspot.com/ Sub rosa, which means private, secretive, or quite simply "under the =20 rose," is the longest term in the English language that can be =20 derived from the name JASON BURNS. **Mermaid Tenement Press: http://www.mermaidtenementpress.com Mermaid Tenement Press is a non-profit small press in New York City =20 that seeks to discover and document new innovative poetry. Currently =20 they are publishing a chapbook series called the Tout Court Editions, =20= devoted to the publication of performance poetries in collaboration =20 with visual artists. Its 2009 run of chapbooks includes pieces by =20 Norma Cole, Elizabeth Frost, Lee Ann Brown and Tony Torn, and Abigail =20= Child. Visual artists whose work is featured on their covers include =20 Marina Adams and Paul "Vickers" Lyon. **The North Beach Yacht Club The North Beach Yacht Club is a member press of a series of one-shot =20 publishing projects. **3 Sad Tigers Press 3sadtigers.press@gmail.com http://germspot.blogspot.com Mariana Ruiz Firmat is a Brooklyn-based poet and founder of 3 Sad =20 Tigers Press. 3 Sad Tigers was founded in 2009 and is kicking off with =20= the chapbook, No Sequence But Luck by Brenda Bordofsky Serpick, who =20 lives in Baltimore. Sad Tigers gets its name from the avant-guard =20 Cuban novel Tres Tigres Tristes by Cabrera Infante. Sad Tigers will =20 publish women and people of color foremost, but it will be open to =20 publishing any weirdly gorgeous experimental poetry. Sad Tigers wants =20= to publish poets who embrace the sensuous storytelling of experimental =20= poetry, primarily beyond the reaches of the Academy. ---- **Boog City http://www.welcometoboogcity.com Boog City is a New York City-based small press now in its 19th year =20 and East Village community newspaper of the same name. It has also =20 published 35 volumes of poetry and various magazines, featuring work =20 by Allen Ginsberg and Lawrence Ferlinghetti among others, and theme =20 issues on baseball, women=92s writing, and Louisville, Ky. It hosts and =20= curates two regular performance series=97d.a. levy lives: celebrating =20= the renegade press, where each month a non-NYC small press and its =20 writers and a musical act of their choosing is hosted at Chelsea=92s ACA = =20 Galleries; and Classic Albums Live, where up to 13 local musical acts =20= perform a classic album live at venues including The Bowery Poetry =20 Club, Cake Shop, CBGB=92s, and The Knitting Factory. Past albums have =20= included Elvis Costello, My Aim is True; Nirvana, Nevermind; and Liz =20 Phair, Exile in Guyville. ---- Directions: C/E to 23rd St., 1/9 to 18th St. Venue is bet. 10th and 11th avenues Next event: Tues. Jan. 26, Alice James Books (Farmington, Maine) http://www.alicejamesbooks.org/ -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W. 28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://welcometoboogcity.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) To subscribe free to The December Podcast: = http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=3D3431698= 80 For music from Gilmore boys: http://www.myspace.com/gilmoreboysmusic =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 10:38:36 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Cassandra Laity Subject: text message love poem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline "Text Message Love Poem" by Charles Bivona http://open.salon.com/blog/charlesbivona/2009/12/09/text_message_love_poem Cassandra Laity=20 Associate Professor Co-Editor Modernism/Modernity=20 Drew University=20 Madison, NJ 07940 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 11:38:15 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Sara Wintz Subject: SEGUE: Alan Bernheimer + Danny Snelson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SEGUE READING SERIES @ THE BOWERY POETRY CLUB brings right to your backyard... DANNY SNELSON + ALAN BERNHEIMER !! DANNY SNELSON is a writer, editor, and archivist recently relocated to Philadelphia. He is the founder of Aphasic Letters (with Phoebe Springstubb= ) and No Input Books (with James Hoff). Recent writing projects include *Endl= ess Nameless*, *Equi Nox*, and *Radios*. ALAN BERNHEIMER's *Spoonlight Institute* was published this fall by Adventures in Poetry. Earlier books include *Billionesque* and *Caf=E9 Isot= ope *. Saturday, December 12th 4-6 PM at The Bowery Poetry Club 308 Bowery, just north of Houston $6 admission goes to readers The Segue Reading Series is made possible by the support of The Segue Foundation. Visit seguefoundation.com, bowerypoetry.com, or call (212) 614-0505 for mor= e information. Dec/Jan Segue Readings are curated by Thom Donovan and Sara Wintz. UP NEXT: December 19 Fiona Templeton + M. Mara Ann January 9 Judith Goldman + Adam Pendleton January 16 *M=F3nica de la Torre* + Fred Moten January 23 Bruce Boone + Rob Halpern January 30 David Larsen + Samantha Giles =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 08:05:48 -1000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Gabrielle Welford Subject: "Noho Hewa" in NYC - plz fwd-- last screening in NYC (fwd) Comments: cc: edliberation MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed dear folks, keala is one of my dearest friends, a real radical, native hawaiian filmmaker. i don't know why i didn't let you all know that she's in new york with screenings of her film and q&a afterwards. this is the last showing, tonight. i hope those of you there get a chance to go see it and meet her. she showed it last night at the brecht center. last chance this time around to see the most honest rendition of the truth about hawai'i you'll ever see and to get to talk to my brilliant friend! in addition if any of you hear of a fairly longterm housesit (3-4 months) in the city, she's wanting to switch gears and get down to writing. you can let me know if there is something. she's been basically homeless all the time she's been making this movie, living totally from hand to mouth. she's a treat. go see it if you can. if you can't go see the movie (which won best documentary in the Hawaii International Film Festival last year), go to her website and buy a copy of the dvd to watch: www.nohohewa.com. if you're going to use it to show in your classes, get the school to buy a copy at the school rate. she's living on this at the moment. all best and hope you get to see it, gabe ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 11:27:38 -0500 From: keala kelly *NOHO HEWA: The Wrongful Occupation of Hawaii Thursday Dec 10, 7pm* International Action Center 55 West 17th Street #5C (between 5th & 6th Avenues) for info call 212-633-6646 ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 01:16:39 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve russell Subject: Innovation & "the poetry of the portfolio" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ...to echoe Emerson on Emily Dickinson. & in this reprint of Emily D's 1st book of poems, I came across a quote from the intro concerning ... ...Dickinson's slant rhymes, her idiosyncratic grammar and punctuation, her irregular meter, all were regarded more as eccentricities or the failings of an interesting novice than as the innovative experimentations of a literary genius. Thomas Wentworth HIgginson, preface. & so it goes, as Vonnegut might add if he were still around. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 18:49:34 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Li, a language game (fwd) (I love this - Alan) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/Mixed; BOUNDARY="0-256605836-1260402543=:17293" This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --0-256605836-1260402543=:17293 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=X-UNKNOWN; FORMAT=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Content-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2009 18:02:31 -0500 From: "tENTATIVELY, a cONVENIENCE" To: idioideo@verizon.net Subject: Li, a language game Li, English, a language game invented by tENTATIVELY, a cONVENIENCE (the 2nd greatest undiscovered OuLiPoian writer) on Wednesday, December 9, 2009EV, in wch 2 words' having many meanings in many different languages is exploited in order to construct narrative texts using only 2 words - the meaning being derived by then translating those words' multiple meanings. In the case of Li, the only 2 words to be used are Li & Po. All texts shd originate w/ a text of the T'ang Dynasty Chinese poet Li Po (699-762). In other words, a poem by Li Po (either in the original language or in translation) is converted as closely as possible to its original meaning only using the words Li & Po. Variations on the game are Po, &Ou - wch are explained elsewhere. THEREFORE, starting w/ a Li Po poem as translated into English by C. H. Kwock & Vincent McHugh in Anthology of Chinese Literature from early times to the fourteenth century: On the Mountain Question and Answer You ask me: =09=09Why do I live on this green mountain? =09I smile =09No answer =09=09=09My heart serene On flowing water =09=09=09=09peachblow =09=09=09=09quietly going =09=09=09=09far away =09=09another earth This is =09=09another sky No likeness =09=09to that human world below This then becomes: "Po po Li Li-Po? po Po" Li li-po? li =09=09li-po? li po po li po li? =09Li po =09Po po li =09=09Li po po Po po =09=09=09Li =09=09=09po po =09=09=09po po =09=09po po Li po =09=09po li Po po po =09li li li li po Translation: "On the whole Hillside What-For? in exchange for Opposite" You what-for? him =09=09=09what-for? him to flutter on that cool hillside? =09Him cure =09Opposite yes what =09=09=09=09Him belly chew On as water flowing out of a bucket =09=09=09=09=09=09=09a plum =09=09=09=09=09=09=09a small thing all along =09=09=09=09=09=09=09past beyond =09=09in the wake of where That as =09=09in the wake of yonder Opposite yes in exchange for =09=09=09=09=09to you that them at that place beneath po =3D "on" in Czech, Danish (Transliterated), Kwanyama, Lithuanian, Polish, Serbian =09(Latin Script), Slovenian, & Ukranian (Latin Script) po=3D "the whole" in Tocharian (Transliterated) li =3D "hillside" in Norwegian li =3D "what" in Wolof po =3D "for"in Czech, Ido, Sardinian (Campidanese) po =3D "in exchange for" in Ido po =3D "opposite" in Earth Minimal li =3D "you" in Catalan li =3D "what" in Wolof po =3D "for"in Czech, Ido, Sardinian (Campidanese) li =3D "him" in Esperanto li =3D "what" in Wolof po =3D "for"in Czech, Ido, Sardinian (Campidanese) li =3D "him" in Esperanto po =3D "to flutter" in Denya po =3D "on" in Czech, Danish (Transliterated), Kwanyama, Lithuanian, Polish, Serbian =09(Latin Script), Slovenian, & Ukranian (Latin Script) li =3D "that" in Haitian Creole po =3D "cool" in Kimbu li =3D "hillside" in Norwegian li =3D "him" in Esperanto po =3D "cure" in Kimbu po =3D "opposite" in Earth Minimal po =3D "yes" in Albanian & Hawaiian li =3D "what" in Wolof li =3D "him" in Esperanto po =3D "belly" in Cal=C3=B3 po =3D "chew" in Taiwanese (Transliterated) po =3D "on" in Czech, Danish (Transliterated), Kwanyama, Lithuanian, Polish, Serbian =09(Latin Script), Slovenian, & Ukranian (Latin Script) po =3D "as water flowing out of a bucket" in Chewa Li =3D a Chinese name that signifies or is derived from: "a plum" po =3D "a small thing" in Ainu po =3D "all along" in Czech po =3D "past" in Lithuanian po =3D "beyond" in Lithuanian po =3D "in the wake of " in Lithuanian po =3D "where" in Swahili li =3D "that" in Haitian Creole po =3D "as" in Catalan, Faroese, Icelandic, Malay, Papiamentu, & Tagalong po =3D "in the wake of " in Lithuanian li =3D "yonder" in Italian po =3D "opposite" in Earth Minimal po =3D "yes" in Albanian & Hawaiian po =3D "in exchange for" in Ido li =3D "to you" in Catalan li =3D "that" in Haitian Creole li =3D "them" in Romanian li =3D "at that place" In Italian po =3D "beneath" in Lithuanian MANY THANKS TO THE Webster's Online Dictionary with Multilingual Thesaurus Translation =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html --0-256605836-1260402543=:17293-- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 20:10:13 +1100 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Chris Jones Subject: Re: Gay may not be the new black, but .... In-Reply-To: <247532.6129.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Doesn't Lee Edelmann in Homographesis, essays in gay literary and cultural theory, also covered this problem (pp42-75 The part for the (w)hole.) It does seem that the tripartite racism, sexism, homophobia; serves as a critical time image of late capitalism. An image in which the dominant ideas of our ruling class times are the desire for the end of capitalism. And with the ever lengthening working day in which the workers are chained to an e-commerce work station or laptop. In Vol 2 of Capital Marx discusses time as that which is needed for wine to ferment, which goes sour with the growing length of the working day which is always finite as the finite limits of a transcendental a-priori christian god haters. best, Chris Jones. On Tue, 2009-12-08 at 10:14 -0800, amy king wrote: > Putting my foot in it again -- http://amyking.wordpress.com/2009/12/08/gay-may-not-be-the-“new”-black-but…/ > > Please be gentle, > > Amy ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 13:44:33 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Charles Bernstein Subject: 40% Discount on Radical Poetics and Secular Jewish Culture -- &-- essays on Oppen collection MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The University of Alabama Press Modern and Contemporary Poetry Series 40% Discount on Newest MCP Titles *Radical Poetics and Secular Jewish Culture* edited by Daniel Morris & Stephen Paul Miller retail price: $39.95 paper | discounted price:$23.97 *Thinking Poetics: Essays on George Oppen* edited by Steve Shoemaker retail price: $34.95 paper | discounted price: $20.97 go to http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/bernstein/blog/archive/U-AL-2009.html for discount details, tables of content, books covers, etc. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 14:34:20 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jennifer Karmin Subject: How2: new issue online! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Launching a new issue of How2 journal Volume 3, Issue 3 http://www.how2journal.com POETIC ECONOMIES OF PERFORMANCE: PART 2 Featuring poems & papers from: Elizabeth-Jane Burnett Emily Carr Christina Continelli David Emanuel Shannon Maguire Julia Lee Barclay Amy Sara Carroll Laylage Courie Bonnie Emerick Jennifer Karmin in collaboration with:=20 Emily Abendroth Diane di Prima Phayvanh Luekhamhan Daniel Mejia Erika Mikkalo Shin Yu Pai Meredith Quartermain Paula Rabinowitz Jenny Roberts Michelle Taransky STRICTLY SPEAKING ON CAROLINE BERGVALL Featuring papers from: Caroline Bergvall Sophie Robinson Nathan Brown cris cheek Laura Goldstein Majene Mafe READING CARLA HARRYMAN Featuring papers from: Carla Harryman Laura Hinton Christine Hume J. Darling Carla Billitteri Renee Gladman Austin Publicover NEW MEDIA Featuring: Aya Karpi=C5=84ska Katie Clapham Becky Cremin Simone Gilson NEW WRITING Featuring poems by: Jessica Wilkinson Emily Critchley Karen Sandhu REVIEW Featuring: Jessica Wilkinson on Susan Howe=E2=80=99s Souls of the Labadie Tract Emily Critchley on Lisa Robertson's Magenta Soul Whip IN CONFERENCE Featuring: Arpine Konyalian Grenier: Reflections on the First International Poetic Ecologies Conference, Univers= it=C3=A9 Libre de Bruxelles, May 2008 HIGHLIGHTS FROM THE HOW(ever) ARCHIVES=20 Featuring selected work by: Susan Gervitz Hannah Weiner Rosemarie Waldrop Lydia Davis =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 16:18:07 -0600 Reply-To: halvard@gmail.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bragging rights Comments: To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" Comments: cc: BRITISH-IRISH-POETS@jiscmail.ac.uk, POETRYETC@jiscmail.ac.uk In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 After all those years of work on it, Mark, you certainly deserve this. Congratulations! Hal "We don't serve fine wine in half-pints, buddy." --Robert Ashley Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 3:05 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > *The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry, edited by yours truly, > was just listed on the Harriet Blog as one of the 10 best poetry books of > the year. > http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2009/12/the-best-poetry-of-the-year/ > > * > > Announcing *The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry* (University of > California Press). > Forthcoming in November 2009. > http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 10:12:45 -1000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jonathan Morse Subject: Re: Ever hear of "The Family"? The new Free Masons...? In-Reply-To: <489458.83928.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit amy king wrote: > The Family -- http://amyking.wordpress.com/2009/12/09/fear-or-disinterest-the-powers-that-be/ > Yes, it would be nice if those people were to read James Hogg's _Confessions of a Justified Sinner_ and find out what's in store for them. But (a) This story got extensive coverage this past summer during the John Ensign sex scandal. It even got into _Doonesbury_. And (b) How about keeping the focus on poetics? Jonathan Morse ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 09:40:16 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: technique questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Which do you consider a more effective simple pause: word spacing or line break? Are these different from the concept of breath? Mary Jo -- http://thisshiningwound.blogspot.com/ http://apophisdeconstructingabsurdity.blogspot.com/ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 10:48:45 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: John Herbert Cunningham Subject: pls post MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Speaking of Poets, which has become one of the top ten shows on CKUW 95.9 FM, is pleased to announce the line up for January. All are female poets who have been associated with the Kootenay School of Writing (KSW). We lead off on January 3 with Meredith Quartermain followed on January 10 with Sachiko Murakami, January 17 with Lisa Robertson and ending on January 24 with Catriona Strang. This, of course, leaves January 31 which will be a surprise. Please join me in a casual conversation with some excellent poets and some great poetry. If you have any comments regarding the show or a request for a particular poet to be on, please contact me at speakingofpoets@gmail.com. Don't forget, CKUW is available on the internet. The show can be streamed or downloaded should you miss us. John Herbert Cunningham ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 11:49:35 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Kyle Schlesinger Subject: Recently on the Mimeo Mimeo blog Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Recently on the Mimeo Mimeo blog: http://mimeomimeo.blogspot.com/ Bill Griffiths Tasty Waves and a Cool Buzz More Elsie Cowen You Can Never Get Enough Rhinozeros Snelson and Bernheimer @ BPC The Bear and the Bunny We=B9re All Wasted Poets Theatre The Alternative Press Tuli, Tuli the Dancing Machine & hot off the press: MIMEO MIMEO #3: THE DANNY SNELSON ISSUE plus insert, The Infernal Method written, designed and printed letterpress by Aaron Cohick. Buy now for just ten bucks! http://mimeomimeo.blogspot.com/ Mimeo Mimeo is a forum for critical and cultural perspectives on artists' books, typography and the mimeograph revolution. This periodical features essays, interviews, artifacts, and reflections on the graphic, material and textual conditions of contemporary poetry and language arts. Taking our cue from Steve Clay and Rodney Phillips' ground-breaking sourcebook, A Secret Location on the Lower East Side, we see the mimeograph as one among many print technologies (letterpress, offset, silk-screen, photocopies, computers, etc.) that enabled poets, artists and editors to become independent publishers. As editors, we have no allegiance to any particular medium or media (tho Mimeo Mimeo is only available in print at this time). We understand the mimeo revolution as an attitude - a material and immaterial perspective on the politics of print. Jed Birmingham & Kyle Schlesinger =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 19:26:41 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Wanda Phipps Subject: check put some new poems in The Brooklyn Rail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hey: Check out some of my new poems in The Brooklyn Rail (they are in the current print edition as well--if you get one--grab a few for me): http://www.brooklynrail.org/2009/12/poetry/silent-pictures-recognize-the-world-ii Happy Holiday, Wanda -- Wanda Phipps Check out my websites: http://www.mindhoney.com and http://www.myspace.com/wandaphippsband My latest book of poetry Field of Wanting: Poems of Desire available at: http://www.blazevox.org/bk-wp.htm And my 1st full-length book of poems Wake-Up Calls: 66 Morning Poems available at:http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/193236031X/ref=rm_item ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 09:57:10 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Pierre Joris Subject: Recent NOMADICS posts Comments: cc: British-Irish List , "Poetryetc: poetry and poetics" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Check out these recent posts on NOMADICS blog at = http://pierrejoris.com/blog Kenneth Irby: The Intent On How Stable is the Contemporary Environment? Another EU policy statement will not stop Israel=92s colonization Herta M=FCller=92s Nobel Lecture George Fragopoulos On Mahmoud Darwish Juan Cole=92s Top Ten Questions for Copenhagen Fourteen days to seal history=92s judgment on this generation James Hansen on the Need for Copenhagen to Fail Keats: Killed by a review? enjoy! & happy solstice celebrations, or whatever it is you celebrate or = don't celebrate these weeks, Pierre =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D "Lyric poetry has to be exorbitant or not at all." -- Gottfried Benn =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Pierre Joris =20 cell phone: 518 225 7123 = =20 email: jorpierre@gmail.com http://pierrejoris.com Nomadics blog: http://pierrejoris.com/blog/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 09:13:23 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Joel Weishaus Subject: "The Gateless Gate" pages 43-44 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Friends and Colleagues: Here are pages 43-44 of "The Gateless Gate": http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282/Gate/Pgs%2043-44.htm Paragraph headings: Goddesses, rather than Gods, were shaped into stone... "Then to his pupil's surprise, he drew a small circle... Some nights I sense I'm on a ship plying the Arctic... Last night I dreamed I was trimming a large painting... What news is the wind whispering to the trees... Today the forest blends with air metabolized... From one's first point of view it's a pile of stones... In his striking essay, Lawrence Barham suggests... Cover (to begin, or begin again): http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282/Gate/cover.htm Thank you to those of you who have written to me with comments on this = project.=20 -Joel =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 12:31:39 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: text message love poem In-Reply-To: <4B20CFAC020000ED0008AF57@giadom.drew.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've got one using T9 http://artrecess.blogspot.com/2006_02_01_archive.html in forthcoming book, OOD: Object-Oriented Design (the original text is Greek) On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 7:38 AM, Cassandra Laity wrote: > "Text =A0Message Love Poem" by Charles Bivona > > http://open.salon.com/blog/charlesbivona/2009/12/09/text_message_love_poe= m > > Cassandra Laity > Associate Professor > Co-Editor Modernism/Modernity > Drew University > Madison, NJ 07940 > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > --=20 All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly@gmail.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 06:15:37 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve russell Subject: poetic morp MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Now that LBJ is back in office, it's good to know the benefit of CHANGE. little goes long long way Alexander was great according to them book things & he refused to linger around that part of the globe that currently ... Protest/poem maybe get out acoustic geetar All we are asking... & so forth & so on ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 14:51:22 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: amy king Subject: Re: Ever hear of "The Family"? The new Free Masons...? In-Reply-To: <4B21563D.90107@hawaii.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii c) How is this *not* about poetry, Gorgeous? _______ NEW BOOK Slaves to Do These Things -- http://www.blazevox.org/bk-ak3.htm ----- Original Message ---- From: Jonathan Morse To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Thu, December 10, 2009 12:12:45 PM Subject: Re: Ever hear of "The Family"? The new Free Masons...? amy king wrote: > The Family -- http://amyking.wordpress.com/2009/12/09/fear-or-disinterest-the-powers-that-be/ > Yes, it would be nice if those people were to read James Hogg's _Confessions of a Justified Sinner_ and find out what's in store for them. But (a) This story got extensive coverage this past summer during the John Ensign sex scandal. It even got into _Doonesbury_. And (b) How about keeping the focus on poetics? Jonathan Morse ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 07:57:29 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve russell Subject: NON Event/////////////Washington Post/0/Poetry/0/ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii No reviews for poetry, best, 2009. The Washington Post no longer remembers... ...it once had a poetry column in Book World. If poetry were dead, the post would have covered the non-event. No, poetry isn't dead, it's offffff the map. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 09:59:20 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Catherine Daly Subject: Cocktails for the Holiday MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 There are still about a dozen copies of my chapbook COCKTAIL available from furnture press/Christophe Casamassima. Makes a great party gift!!! Also, a pretty interesting poem series linking Vauxhall, DaDaDa, and the forthcoming OOD: Object-Oriented Design stylistically. -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly@gmail.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 14:54:18 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: amy king Subject: Re: Gay may not be the new black, but .... In-Reply-To: <1260436213.1916.19.camel@chris-laptop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A Jud= Thanks for your note, Chris. I'll try to locate those essays...=0A=0AA Jud= ith Butler quote on the subject: http://amyking.wordpress.com/2009/12/13/c= omplex-alliances/ =0A=0ABe well,=0A=0AAmy=0A=0A =0A_______=0A=0ANEW BOOK= =0ASlaves to Do These Things -- http://www.blazevox.org/bk-ak3.htm=0A=0A=0A= =0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Chris Jones = =0ATo: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=0ASent: Thu, December 10, 2009 1:10:13 = AM=0ASubject: Re: Gay may not be the new black, but ....=0A=0ADoesn't Lee E= delmann in Homographesis, essays in gay literary and=0Acultural theory, als= o covered this problem (pp42-75 The part for the=0A(w)hole.)=0A=0AIt does s= eem that the tripartite racism, sexism, homophobia; serves as a=0Acritical = time image of late capitalism. An image in which the dominant=0Aideas of ou= r ruling class times are the desire for the end of=0Acapitalism. And with t= he ever lengthening working day in which the=0Aworkers are chained to an e-= commerce work station or laptop. In Vol 2 of=0ACapital Marx discusses time = as that which is needed for wine to ferment,=0Awhich goes sour with the gro= wing length of the working day which is=0Aalways finite as the finite limit= s of a transcendental a-priori=0Achristian god haters.=0A=0Abest, Chris Jon= es.=0A=0AOn Tue, 2009-12-08 at 10:14 -0800, amy king wrote:=0A> Putting my = foot in it again -- http://amyking.wordpress.com/2009/12/08/gay-may-not-b= e-the-=E2=80=9Cnew=E2=80=9D-black-but=E2=80=A6/=0A> =0A=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 14:54:19 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Dan Wilcox Subject: Third Thursday Poetry Night: Dec. 17, Urayoan Noel Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed the Poetry Motel Foundation presents Third Thursday Poetry Night at the Social Justice Center 33 Central Ave., Albany, NY Thursday, December 17 7:00 sign up; 7:30 start Featured Poet: Urayo=E1n Noel -- with an open mic for community poets before & after the feature: =20 $3.00 donation, suggested; more if you got it, less if you can=92t. Your host: Dan Wilcox & the annual visit from Sanity Clause. * * * Urayo=E1n noel is the author of Kool Logic/La L=F3gica Kool (bilingual =20= press; a 2006 books of the year selection by el nuevo d=EDa) and =20 Boringk=E9n (ediciones callej=F3n/la tertulia, 2008). Other works =20 include the artist=92s book Las Flores del Mall (2000) and various text-=20= sound collaborations with composer Monxo L=F3pez, some of which are =20 featured on the dvd Kool Logic Sessions (bilingual press) and on the =20 cd included with Boringk=E9n. Originally from San Juan, Puerto Rico, he divides his time between =20 Albany and the Bronx, NY, and teaches literature and creative writing =20= at the University at Albany.= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 12:27:23 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Larry Sultan, photographer, passed. Comments: To: "Poetryetc: poetry and poetics" , UK POETRY MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Larry=0A Sultan, California Photographer, Dies at 63 Larry is/was one of the finest, most thoughtful and most 'literary' contemp= orary photographers - as well as well loved mentor (California College of A= rts), and friend to many.=A0 His books, "Evidence" with Mike Mandel, and hi= s two books that engage suburban family life and pornography, as played out= in the San Fernando Valley (Los Angeles), will long survive him. Another t= ragic loss to cancer.=20 Stephen Vincent http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 22:51:02 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Elizabeth Switaj Subject: Re: technique questions [line break vs. spacing] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I don't think of either word spacing or a line break as more effective for the creation of a simple pause per se. I tend to think of a line break more as the sort of pause with a catch breath and a faint change in tone, spacing as held breath. Elizabeth Kate Switaj www.elizabethkateswitaj.net ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 08:02:39 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve russell Subject: The Sri Lankan LoxoDrome MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii came across this curious artifact in a d.c. used bookstore, a 2009 uncorrected proof of The Sri Lankan Loxodrome by Will Alexander. i still maintain that W Merwin closed out the 20th century with the most ambitious poem of that centuries late half( at least one written by a U.S. citizen), but Alexander gets things rolling into the new... whatever... rather nicely, adding pen & ink &other visual blunders. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 14:59:03 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: amy king Subject: Re: technique questions [line break vs. spacing] In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Ron Padgett once suggested to me that the end of the line is half a pause ... wonder what ellipsis represents beyond omission? _______ NEW BOOK Slaves to Do These Things -- http://www.blazevox.org/bk-ak3.htm ----- Original Message ---- From: Elizabeth Switaj I don't think of either word spacing or a line break as more effective for the creation of a simple pause per se. I tend to think of a line break more as the sort of pause with a catch breath and a faint change in tone, spacing as held breath. Elizabeth Kate Switaj www.elizabethkateswitaj.net ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 12:32:32 -0500 Reply-To: az421@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Rob McLennan Subject: 2 new poetry chapbooks from above/ground press: Carr + mclennan 2 new poetry chapbooks from above/ground press: Carr + mclennan & look there goes a sparrow transplanting soil by Emily Carr $4; Poems for Lainna by rob mclennan $4; more information on mclennan's chapbook & ordering, & 2010 subscription information at http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/2009/12/2-new-poetry-chapbooks-from-aboveground.html forthcoming items, still, by Ken Norris + plenty others; rob -- writer/editor/publisher ...STANZAS mag, above/ground press & Chaudiere Books (www.chaudierebooks.com) ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...poetry - a compact of words (Salmon) ...2nd novel - missing persons www.abovegroundpress.blogspot.com * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 17:02:10 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Adam Katz Subject: Re: technique questions In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think a comma where there is not meant to be one. Pound =E0 la Olson: " 'the musical phrase,' go by it, boys, rather than by= , the metronome. " I think especially that last comma really creates a simple pause. Whereas, I think spacing creates a jagged effect - if you use five spaces instead of one, it has the effect of 'breaking the poem up' on the page - and if you use enjambment, this is something normal to us. We read right through it, it's standard. Both enjambment and spacing, to me, create a jaggedness in the poem which my instinct is to try to read over smoothly (tho with 'awareness' of their 'effects'). But grammar/punctuation is more entrenched/standardized? So a comma holds me, back, makes me actually physically pause in the rhythm of my reading. a =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 12:17:41 +1300 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Lisa Samuels Subject: KA MATE KA ORA #9: Call for Submissions on Antipodean interactions with American poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please send writings short or long, involving the topic below, to editor Murray Edmond. If you are pondering something, early notice of your intention to send is helpful. Multiple writing approaches, as the call indicates, are welcome. Lisa Call for Submissions: please forward to anyone who may be interested: KA MATE KA ORA #9 March 2010 After 1956 American poetry, like rock 'n roll, seized centre stage, not just in the English-speaking world, but right round the globe. The impact on New Zealand poetry was profound, as it also was in Australia. That transformation and disjuncture has been noted before. For some 30 years, from the Beats to the Language poets, the American poetic moment held sway. Perhaps it was a last manifestation of an Empire Central on a global scale as the provinces turned up their faces in wonder. Now it is time to look back and ask more than, "What was added to poetry in the Antipodes?" - to ask what was added to American poetry by these local elaborations. How much was the American poetic moment a matter of external energies feeding back to U.S cultural scenes? After the American poetic moment evanesced at about the same time as other geo-political entrenchments were upheaved in 1989, what remained for the 'nationalism' of poetries in the Antipodes and North America? What was the interaction between imagined U.S. poetic liberation and the actual rise of global and specifically New Zealand and Australian poetic reinfusions during those 35 years? For Issue #9, Ka Mate Ka Ora is calling for articles, essays, and creative considerations which address these questions of Antipodean interactions with American poetry and the state of national poetic imaginaries in New Zealand, Australia, and the USA. Submissions by MARCH 12th 2010. Please send to Murray Edmond, Editor, at =A0m.edmond@auckland.ac.nz =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 16:10:12 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve russell Subject: Re: technique questions [line break vs. spacing] In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii i've been exchanging poems with a friend who, apparenlty, is hearing impaired. i wouln't have known if she didn't inform me. at Gall ...sp? U Det, her hearing is considered unreliable. she visualizes words and sounds them ... in a sense, i suppose a line break is one of the ways we internalize words -- if that makes sense. I wonder if Chomsky or any major language theorist has studied the hearing impaired and poetry as a learning tool??? ________________________________ From: Elizabeth Switaj To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Mon, December 14, 2009 2:51:02 PM Subject: Re: technique questions [line break vs. spacing] I don't think of either word spacing or a line break as more effective for the creation of a simple pause per se. I tend to think of a line break more as the sort of pause with a catch breath and a faint change in tone, spacing as held breath. Elizabeth Kate Switaj www.elizabethkateswitaj.net ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 16:23:03 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve russell Subject: Re: technique questions [line break vs. spacing] In-Reply-To: <812800.81716.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii dots ... i forget my english as a 1st & only language vocabulary, but Celine used them beautifully. they meant & not only that ... but this ... they meant following threw or THROUGH with a thought ... but just in case ... i like them 'cause they get a flow going ... i see them mostly in prose since poetry is a EACH word has This much weight kind of thing...Ellipsis, a mere word, but interesting... ________________________________ From: amy king To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Mon, December 14, 2009 2:59:03 PM Subject: Re: technique questions [line break vs. spacing] Ron Padgett once suggested to me that the end of the line is half a pause ... wonder what ellipsis represents beyond omission? _______ NEW BOOK Slaves to Do These Things -- http://www.blazevox.org/bk-ak3.htm ----- Original Message ---- From: Elizabeth Switaj I don't think of either word spacing or a line break as more effective for the creation of a simple pause per se. I tend to think of a line break more as the sort of pause with a catch breath and a faint change in tone, spacing as held breath. Elizabeth Kate Switaj www.elizabethkateswitaj.net ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 16:31:36 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Comments: RFC822 error: Invalid RFC822 field - "physically pause in the rhy=". Rest of header flushed. From: steve russell Subject: Re: technique questions In-Reply-To: <461e0fe0912141502s69411fbcp191653ee097e482@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "So a comma holds me, back, makes me actually=0Aphysically pause in the rhy= thm of my reading."=0A=0AThoughful: because reading, writing, and thinking = are different activities and the comma is a certain way of puttting stress = on a Pause. & it isn't necessarily the best way to represent a pause ... pu= tting words together ... writing this strange thing we still choose to call= poetry. That about does it for today's posting limit ... period....=0A=0A= =0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Adam Katz =0ATo: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=0ASent: Mon, December 14, 20= 09 3:02:10 PM=0ASubject: Re: technique questions=0A=0AI think a comma where= there is not meant to be one.=0A=0APound =E0 la Olson: " 'the musical phr= ase,' go by it, boys, rather than by,=0Athe metronome. "=0A=0AI think espec= ially that last comma really creates a simple pause.=0A=0AWhereas, I think = spacing creates a jagged effect - if you use five spaces=0Ainstead of one, = it has the effect of 'breaking the poem up' on the page -=0Aand if you use = enjambment, this is something normal to us. We read right=0Athrough it, it= 's standard. Both enjambment and spacing, to me, create a=0Ajaggedness in = the poem which my instinct is to try to read over smoothly=0A(tho with 'awa= reness' of their 'effects'). But grammar/punctuation is more=0Aentrenched/= standardized? So a comma holds me, back, makes me actually=0Aphysically pa= use in the rhythm of my reading.=0A=0Aa=0A=0A=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A= The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines= & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A=0A=0A=0A = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 17:34:56 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: KA MATE KA ORA #9: Call for Submissions on Antipodean interactions with American poetry In-Reply-To: <5e93e4440912141517y5fa3be39p88bafe3079f6e241@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As 'an American' poet, I like the idea, at least, the sound of it, of being= called a "pode"!=20 At=A0 least it sounds "seasoned", if not totally "over the hill." The old p= ode just ain't what (s)he used to be. etc. Anything to give birth to someth= ing else! Bring it on! But, really, is it helpful to the description of eve= ry or anything to frame it entirely in 'polar' terms. Unless I am misinterp= reting the impulse here, I think the cross-fertilizations, arguments and ev= olutions of any country's poetries with those of others are much more compl= icated. It's what excites my eye/ear as globally as I can be attentive,=A0 = This Empire down the tubes - or not entirely - Hopefully this issue address= es that.=20 Stephen Vincent --- On Mon, 12/14/09, Lisa Samuels wrote: From: Lisa Samuels Subject: KA MATE KA ORA #9: Call for Submissions on Antipodean interactions= with American poetry To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Monday, December 14, 2009, 3:17 PM Please send writings short or long, involving the topic below, to editor Murray Edmond. If you are pondering something, early notice of your intention to send is helpful. Multiple writing approaches, as the call indicates, are welcome. Lisa Call for Submissions: please forward to anyone who may be interested: KA MATE KA ORA #9 March 2010 After 1956 American poetry, like rock 'n roll, seized centre stage, not just in the English-speaking world, but right round the globe. The impact on New Zealand poetry was profound, as it also was in Australia. That transformation and disjuncture has been noted before. For some 30 years, from the Beats to the Language poets, the American poetic moment held sway. Perhaps it was a last manifestation of an Empire Central on a global scale as the provinces turned up their faces in wonder. Now it is time to look back and ask more than, "What was added to poetry in the Antipodes?" - to ask what was added to American poetry by these local elaborations. How much was the American poetic moment a matter of external energies feeding back to U.S cultural scenes? After the American poetic moment evanesced at about the same time as other geo-political entrenchments were upheaved in 1989, what remained for the 'nationalism' of poetries in the Antipodes and North America? What was the interaction between imagined U.S. poetic liberation and the actual rise of global and specifically New Zealand and Australian poetic reinfusions during those 35 years? For Issue #9, Ka Mate Ka Ora is calling for articles, essays, and creative considerations which address these questions of Antipodean interactions with American poetry and the state of national poetic imaginaries in New Zealand, Australia, and the USA. Submissions by MARCH 12th 2010. Please send to Murray Edmond, Editor, at =A0m.edmond@auckland.ac.nz =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines= & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 19:34:11 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Eireene Nealand Subject: polyphonic & heteroglossia: does anyone know the obverse of these terms in listening? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi all, I'm trying to write about a really remarkable play, called The Animals of Omaha. It involves not just multiple voices speaking (as is wont to happen in Poet's Theatre these days) but also an emphasis on multiple listeners. Ex. One voice speaking to two people--ones who happen to be in different times and places. But what is the term for this multiplication of listening? And that reception's speaking back? It has something to do with a writing of the simulacrum...but not quite, not exactly that...and what terms does one use for the mobius-like quality. Mobian? If anyone has any interesting ideas on this please let me know. Maybe the terms will come from translation theory? Maybe they will be the same terms as Bakhtin's...I want to recognize his work but also, to make a slight shift... Thanks for your help! Eireene ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 21:48:44 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Maria Damon Subject: citation from list? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear friends: Back in 2006 or 2007, there was a discussion about outsider art on the list, and someone wrote the following: "Funny, how it ... makes me think of 14th century German ... iconic Christian paintings in devotion to and in celebration of various Biblical allegories. I remember a CAA annual conference in Boston in which the lecturer showed infra-red (?) slides of the under-painting (preliminary sketches) for various works. Instead of stiff depictions of iconic allegorical figures, we were given a very naturalistic view of the models - men, women and children - drawn from the village around the school where the works were painted, definitely made to conform to and please the strictures of the Church. Following the argument here, the 'outsider' art was actually secreted into the interior life of the 'inside' of the Church. I guess we might call these 'under paintings' a case of ‘insider’ art. Ironically it's taken 6 centuries to bring the work into view. ... it's definitely of the material world, and not of allegory made. Somehow brings up the recollection of the story of prisoners in Quantanamo [sic] making poems on thin strips of the paper pealed back from paper cups - and passing those strips among each other. Definitely 'insider' art by 'outsiders.'" I thought it was Stephen Vincent, in response to a post by David-Baptiste Chirot, but I can't find it in the archives. Any ideas? bests, md ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 11:44:26 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Elizabeth Switaj Subject: Re: technique questions In-Reply-To: <897518.67057.qm@web52401.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 A comma to me is, again, a catch breath though one slightly longer than that allowed by a line break. A dash is a little longer again. Then come your semicolons and colons (each with a slight tonal difference), and periods are almost painfully strong. Parentheses change the voice entirely and carry whatever length of pause that requires. A backtick is a hitch, rather than a proper pause, since no one really knows what to do with it. I use less punctuation in my poetry than in my academic prose not because I have anything against punctuation but because I respect the power of its impact. Spacing can have a jagged effect if used moderately. If used once or twice and for fairly short spaces it doesn't quite register that way. If used excessively then the inverse comes to seem the case: that the poem is breaking up the white (or other background color) space. The poem becomes an interruption rather than being interrupted but because we expect, when looking at a poem, for speech to break silence, this doesn't immediately strike one as jagged. Elizabeth Kate Switaj www.elizabethkateswitaj.net ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 06:53:00 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve russell Subject: Re: citation from list? In-Reply-To: <4B27071C.7060404@umn.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable that's a Chirot blog kind of question. last heard that cR/as he's known in = business,,, busy circling Planet(&*)while doing some sort of hip replacemen= t thing ... Guantanamo is a topic i'm sure he could discuss/outsiders/priso= ners/that whole thing/ do the crime Go Europe ... my mother warned me about= American prisons ...... said prisoners suffered severe sensory dep wehn ..= . when .... locked down .... i say Mom ... go to Belgium ... there ... AND= I SAW THIS ON LOCKDOWN MSNBC SO IT MUST BE TRUE NOT EVERYONE IS LYING OR..= .in Belgium it's not a penalty... a crime for prisonrs to escape or try to = escape ... but if the prisoner DOESN'T MAIL BACK HIS UNIFORM IT'S TROUBLE '= CAUSE ... you know.... they gget upset in Belgium ... someone goes to all t= he trouble knitting those uniforms ... folding, washing... sewing those Mad= e In Belgium Labels on the back of each & every....washwash.... then you kn= ow in Belgium if you're in prison & want a conjugal visit from wife ... DOG... FRiend ... Foe .... WHATEVER ... it's there ... Belgium ... Cri= me may not pay ... BUT EUROPE HAS ELIMINATED SUFFERING... ONLY DEATH... tht= one remains .... Once death is gone ... World One Crime,,, One Heart... On= e ...Ousider... CruSAde... biscuit... wine... History... payback, win.=0A= =0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Maria Damon =0ATo: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=0ASent: Mon, December 14, 2009 = 7:48:44 PM=0ASubject: citation from list?=0A=0ADear friends:=0ABack in 2006= or 2007, there was a discussion about outsider art on the list, and someon= e wrote the following:=0A=0A"Funny, how it ... makes me think of 14th centu= ry German ... iconic Christian paintings in devotion to and in celebration = of various Biblical allegories. I remember a CAA annual conference in Bosto= n in which the lecturer showed infra-red (?) slides of the under-painting (= preliminary sketches) for various works. Instead of stiff depictions of ico= nic allegorical figures, we were given a very naturalistic view of the mode= ls - men, women and children - drawn from the village around the school whe= re the works were painted, definitely made to conform to and please the str= ictures of the Church. Following the argument here, the 'outsider' art was = actually secreted into the interior life of the 'inside' of the Church. I g= uess we might call these 'under paintings' a case of =E2=80=98insider=E2=80= =99 art. Ironically it's taken 6 centuries to bring the work into view. ...= it's definitely of the material world, and not of allegory made. Somehow b= rings up the recollection of the story of prisoners in Quantanamo [sic] making poems on thin strips of the = paper pealed back from paper cups - and passing those strips among each oth= er. Definitely 'insider' art by 'outsiders.'"=0A=0AI thought it was Stephen= Vincent, in response to a post by David-Baptiste Chirot, but I can't find = it in the archives. Any ideas?=0Abests, md=0A=0A=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =0AThe Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guideli= nes & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A=0A=0A= =0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 09:50:44 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Christophe Casamassima Subject: Re: technique questions [line break vs. spacing] In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 In my own poetry/writing, I treated the end of the line as an arbitrary shape-keeping or slimming focus. I try to stay close to poetry-as-music and believe, ultimately, that pause or stop or inflection or whatever has to come from the words, the syllables, the sounds themselves. I don't know. I think the shape of poetry, this exploded or anorexic thing on the page is a thing from the past. Some of us rely to heavily on shape, or form, and I hope, even for myself, to transcend the "look" of poetry. Think about it, when someone flips through a book and they see a "poem" (it's not that hard, you know, like "where's wally?") I really don't think they take it too seriously. Am I just pessimistic? Well, yeah. But that keeps me conscious of the problems in and of and about poetry. That's my poetics, dig? But a poetry that fills a page or redefines this 8.5 by 11 or 6 by 9 gig, well, this is what we should be striving for. In this case, a reader can "hear" the difference between prose and poetry. I take Joyce as the example. I read Ulysses as a long poem. I can hear it composed beyond poetry and prose, even. I don't know. I'm not visually oriented. The visual arts freak me out. I'm a sound geek. I like listening to the difference between wind through oak leaves and wind through pine needles. Poets write about this. I like to think about it and write what I hear, not "about" what I hear. So, please think about this and hell, listen. Chrissed Off Constant Enema On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 5:51 PM, Elizabeth Switaj wrote: > I don't think of either word spacing or a line break as more effective for > the creation of a simple pause per se. I tend to think of a line break more > as the sort of pause with a catch breath and a faint change in tone, > spacing > as held breath. > > Elizabeth Kate Switaj > www.elizabethkateswitaj.net > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 09:58:26 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: cris cheek Subject: Re: technique questions [line break vs. spacing] In-Reply-To: <812800.81716.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the end of a line places emphasis on that line as a unit it isolates that unit, even though temporarily, to emphasis the going away and coming back of the eye into and across space to the next unit of words in doing so a line-break often emphasizes interplay between supposed intent regarding continuity and discontinuity it is a major irruption of space however that space is interpreted is navigable and significant but whatever else it is it is space and that space must be recognized as significant as a maker of music and the marker of a decision that in and of itself has and propels meaning making cris On Dec 14, 2009, at 5:59 PM, amy king wrote: > Ron Padgett once suggested to me that the end of the line is half a > pause ... wonder what ellipsis represents beyond omission? > > _______ > > NEW BOOK > Slaves to Do These Things -- http://www.blazevox.org/bk-ak3.htm > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Elizabeth Switaj > > I don't think of either word spacing or a line break as more > effective for > the creation of a simple pause per se. I tend to think of a line > break more > as the sort of pause with a catch breath and a faint change in > tone, spacing > as held breath. > > Elizabeth Kate Switaj > www.elizabethkateswitaj.net > > > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/ > welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 09:00:54 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: Re: technique questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I ask the question partially because a poet once said my style didn't breathe enough, although I use line breaks extensively. Another poet said the number of spaces and empty lines indicates the length of the pause. I think the best approach to reading others' poems is to pause wherever there is a comma, line break, word spacing, etc. rather than employ our own reading habits. I've also listened to poets read their own work, and their delivery in no way matched the abundance of spacing on their page. Should the canvas of the page dictate or interfere with the breath of the poem? In addition to the ellipsis, I particularly admire the way HD used the em dash. Mary Jo -- http://thisshiningwound.blogspot.com/ http://apophisdeconstructingabsurdity.blogspot.com/ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 10:52:57 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: CA Conrad Subject: Sexiest Poem Award 2009 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Sexiest Poem Award 2009 Someone recently asked me why the sexiest poem award has to be political, and added, "What's so sexy about politics?" Actually it goes to a... (to read more and see the award, go to: http://sexiestpoemaward.blogspot.com/ Have a great new year and take nothing for granted, CAConrad -- PhillySound: new poetry http://PhillySound.blogspot.com THE BOOK OF FRANK by CAConrad http://CAConrad.blogspot.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 10:54:53 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: CA Conrad Subject: Scythe MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Scythe poetry online: http://scytheliteraryjournal.com/ -- PhillySound: new poetry http://PhillySound.blogspot.com THE BOOK OF FRANK by CAConrad http://CAConrad.blogspot.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 09:54:02 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Christophe Casamassima Subject: Re: technique questions In-Reply-To: <461e0fe0912141502s69411fbcp191653ee097e482@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > but, see: > go by it "it" the thing, the substance, rather than by, e.g. rather than "by" ,or, around "it", about "it", distanced from "it", "it" being the poem and the writing and the idea as the unalterable unexplodable whole. write. simply, write. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 08:24:48 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve russell Subject: Re: polyphonic & heteroglossia: does anyone know the obverse of these terms in listening? In-Reply-To: <578647560912141934m243c363cq1e71ee81f01cd417@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ... maybe the term is syn ... as ... stezz ... she ... ia ... or whatever That word is when the senses get jumble ... eahring isn't hearing ... it SEES ... & what is taste/touch.... now Baudrillard was talking about the rapid transit media... this image .... that .... is the eND near or is the image coming from somewhere in video land... no referent.... the video image.... not Film Because film has photo proof of it's existence ... it's there ... in infra-red/black/white/ ... polyphonic/play.... or back to Beckett ...perhaps.... that's as good a place as any to start.... A mouth...a Beckett play put on film with a single mouth speaking... after Beckett what? .... the pinball .... the video arcade at the end of the longest >>>that 2, i suppose... Media game...hyper text....PERHAPS A TYPE OF PERFORMANCE ... tht is theatre....Pinter maybe after Beckett has the right idea.... because the Pause is what the Stress is ALL about.... & that's another way ... hearing the tongue... English....pig Latin...whatever type of hearing is necessary... & how it's done...BECKETT 2 Used lots of dots... ________________________________ From: Eireene Nealand To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Mon, December 14, 2009 7:34:11 PM Subject: polyphonic & heteroglossia: does anyone know the obverse of these terms in listening? Hi all, I'm trying to write about a really remarkable play, called The Animals of Omaha. It involves not just multiple voices speaking (as is wont to happen in Poet's Theatre these days) but also an emphasis on multiple listeners. Ex. One voice speaking to two people--ones who happen to be in different times and places. But what is the term for this multiplication of listening? And that reception's speaking back? It has something to do with a writing of the simulacrum...but not quite, not exactly that...and what terms does one use for the mobius-like quality. Mobian? If anyone has any interesting ideas on this please let me know. Maybe the terms will come from translation theory? Maybe they will be the same terms as Bakhtin's...I want to recognize his work but also, to make a slight shift... Thanks for your help! Eireene ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 11:05:22 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Maria Damon Subject: Rain Taxi Fundraising Auction! Comments: To: Theory and Writing , spidertangle@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit for you book collectors out there: http://www.raintaxi.com/auction/ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 22:21:41 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve russell Subject: Jerome Rothenburg query MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Back when? Rothenburg said something about compiling an anthology, an Outsider/poems anthology. I have some connections with the hearing impaired, and know of one (special) poet. Had little luck with the archives, and my computer is schizzy/slow ... any contact info would be appreciated. Best to email poet_in_hell_files@yahoo.com. Plain ole poet_in_hell will do, however... thanks. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 13:35:41 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: citation from list? In-Reply-To: <4B27071C.7060404@umn.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Maria, Don't you think at some point the the absolutely objective and the absolutely subjective (the absolutely outside, e-.g. the Guantanamo "inmates," and the absolutely inside) coincide creating a new kind of freedom which escapes the shackles of the authoritarian thought or language= > Murat On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 10:48 PM, Maria Damon wrote: > Dear friends: > Back in 2006 or 2007, there was a discussion about outsider art on the > list, and someone wrote the following: > > "Funny, how it ... makes me think of 14th century German ... iconic > Christian paintings in devotion to and in celebration of various Biblical > allegories. I remember a CAA annual conference in Boston in which the > lecturer showed infra-red (?) slides of the under-painting (preliminary > sketches) for various works. Instead of stiff depictions of iconic > allegorical figures, we were given a very naturalistic view of the models= - > men, women and children - drawn from the village around the school where = the > works were painted, definitely made to conform to and please the strictur= es > of the Church. Following the argument here, the 'outsider' art was actual= ly > secreted into the interior life of the 'inside' of the Church. I guess we > might call these 'under paintings' a case of =91insider=92 art. Ironicall= y it's > taken 6 centuries to bring the work into view. ... it's definitely of the > material world, and not of allegory made. Somehow brings up the recollect= ion > of the story of prisoners in Quantanamo [sic] making poems on thin strips= of > the paper pealed back from paper cups - and passing those strips among ea= ch > other. Definitely 'insider' art by 'outsiders.'" > > I thought it was Stephen Vincent, in response to a post by David-Baptiste > Chirot, but I can't find it in the archives. Any ideas? > bests, md > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 22:41:07 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jesse Glass Subject: Come See! Come See! Ekleksographia 4 Is Now Live MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" at http://ekleksographia.ahadadabooks.com/ ! or go to www.ahadadabooks.com and click the black Eklekso box. & while you're there, check out our growing library of E-chaps and books. Jess ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 01:53:51 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: CA Conrad Subject: GERTRUDE STEIN in the Picasso Room MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 the next Urchin Reading is STEIN details here: http://UrchinPoetry.blogspot.com -- PhillySound: new poetry http://PhillySound.blogspot.com THE BOOK OF FRANK by CAConrad http://CAConrad.blogspot.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 13:37:39 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Rebecca Stigge Subject: Re: citation from list? In-Reply-To: <4B27071C.7060404@umn.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Maria, It was in response to Sylvester Pollet: fromStephen Vincent=A0 reply-toUB Poetics discussion group toPOETICS@listserv.buffalo.edu dateSat, Mar 10, 2007 at 1:40 PM subjectRe: Outsider Art mailed-bylistserv.buffalo.edu unsubscribeUnsubscribe from this sender hide details=A03/10/07 Yes, agree with Murat, David, a wonderful, insightful post. Funny, how it also makes me think of 14th century German (I believe) iconic Christian paintings in devotion to and in celebration of various Biblical allegories. I remember a CAA annual conference in Boston in which the lecturer showed infra-red (?) slides of the under-painting (preliminary sketches) for various works. Instead of stiff depictions of iconic allegorical figures, we =A0were given a very naturalistic view of the model= s - men, women and children - drawn from the village around the school where th= e works were painted, definitely =A0made to conform to and please the strictu= res of the Church. Following the argument here, the 'outsider' art was actually secreted into the interior life of the 'inside' of the Church. =A0I guess we might call these 'under paintings' a case of "insider" art. Ironically it's taken 6 centuries to bring the work into view. =A0I don't know if the work will eve= r achieve the attention of Courbet - but it's definitely of the material world, and not of allegory made. Somehow brings up the recollection of the story of prisoners in=A0Quantanam= o making poems on thin strips of the paper pealed back from paper cups - and passing those strips among each other. Definitely 'insider' art by 'outsiders.' Stephen V http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 9:48 PM, Maria Damon wrote: > > Dear friends: > Back in 2006 or 2007, there was a discussion about outsider art on the li= st, and someone wrote the following: > > "Funny, how it ... makes me think of 14th century German ... iconic Chris= tian paintings in devotion to and in celebration of various Biblical allego= ries. I remember a CAA annual conference in Boston in which the lecturer sh= owed infra-red (?) slides of the under-painting (preliminary sketches) for = various works. Instead of stiff depictions of iconic allegorical figures, w= e were given a very naturalistic view of the models - men, women and childr= en - drawn from the village around the school where the works were painted,= definitely made to conform to and please the strictures of the Church. Fol= lowing the argument here, the 'outsider' art was actually secreted into the= interior life of the 'inside' of the Church. I guess we might call these '= under paintings' a case of =91insider=92 art. Ironically it's taken 6 centu= ries to bring the work into view. ... it's definitely of the material world= , and not of allegory made. Somehow brings up the recollection of the story= of prisoners in Quantanamo [sic] making poems on thin strips of the paper = pealed back from paper cups - and passing those strips among each other. De= finitely 'insider' art by 'outsiders.'" > > I thought it was Stephen Vincent, in response to a post by David-Baptiste= Chirot, but I can't find it in the archives. Any ideas? > bests, md > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 07:25:28 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David Kirschenbaum Subject: Save the Date: Boog Reader 4 Launch Jan. 17, 2010 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please forward ------------------ Boog City presents Launch Party for The Portable Boog Reader 4 annual poetry anthology with 72 NYC poets and now D.C. Metro area poets all new to The Portable Boog Reader Sun., Jan. 17, 7:00 p.m. $5 Zinc Bar 82 W. 3rd St. (Sullivan/Thompson sts.) NYC WITH READINGS FROM PBR4 CONTRIBUTORS N.Y.C. poets: Ivy Johnson * Boni Joi Steven Karl * Ada Limon D.C. poets: Lynne Dreyer * Phyllis Rosenzweig Curated and hosted by Portable Boog Reader 4 N.Y.C. editors Sommer Browning, Joanna Fuhrman, David Kirschenbaum, and Urayo=E1n Noel, and D.C. editors Cathy Eisenhower and Maureen Thorson. Directions: A/B/C/D/E/F/V to W. 4th St. For further information: 212-842-BOOG (2664), editor@boogcity.com PBR4 (BC61) features the work of 48 New York City and 24 D.C. Metro =20 area poets. The physical issue will be available 12.30.09, and the online pdf that =20= same day at: http://welcometoboogcity.com/boogpdfs/bc61.pdf Bios: **Boog City** http://www.welcometoboogcity.com/ Boog City is a New York City-based small press now in its 19th year =20 and East Village community newspaper of the same name. It has also =20 published 35 volumes of poetry and various magazines, featuring work =20 by Allen Ginsberg and Lawrence Ferlinghetti among others, and theme =20 issues on baseball, women=92s writing, and Louisville, Ky. It hosts and =20= curates two regular performance series=97d.a. levy lives: celebrating =20= the renegade press, where each month a non-NYC small press and its =20 writers and a musical act of their choosing is hosted at Chelsea=92s ACA = =20 Galleries; and Classic Albums Live, where up to 13 local musical acts =20= perform a classic album live at venues including The Bowery Poetry =20 Club, Cake Shop, CBGB=92s, and The Knitting Factory. Past albums have =20= included Elvis Costello, My Aim is True; Nirvana, Nevermind; and Liz =20 Phair, Exile in Guyville. **Lynne Dreyer** http://writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/Dreyer.php Lynne Dreyer has been a D.C. poet for the past 35 years. She lives in =20= Falls Church, Va. **Ivy Johnson** Ivy Johnson would like to thank all of the Brooklyn bartenders who =20 doused her in alcohol and set her on fire. **Boni Joi** Boni Joi has been nominated twice for a Pushcart Prize. Her poems have =20= appeared in Arabella, Big Hammer, Mind Gorilla, The Brooklyn Rail, and =20= many other journals. **Steven Karl** http://stevenkarl.blogspot.com/ Steven Karl and the artist Joseph Lappie collaborated on State(s) of =20 Flux (Peptic Robot Press). Karl has chaps from Flying Guillotine and =20 Scantily Clad presses forthcoming. **Ada Limon** http://www.adalimon.com Ada Lim=F3n is the author of two award-winning poetry books. Her third =20= book, Sharks in the Rivers, is forthcoming from Milkweed Editions. **Phyllis Rosenzweig** http://www.aerialedge.com/dogs.htm Phyllis Rosenzweig has lived in Washington, D.C. since 1974. She edits =20= Primary Writing with Diane Ward. -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W. 28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://welcometoboogcity.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) To subscribe free to The December Podcast: = http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=3D3431698= 80 For music from Gilmore boys: http://www.myspace.com/gilmoreboysmusic= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 09:55:52 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Wanda Phipps Subject: New Audio Advent Calendar of Women Poets on Delirious Hem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hey: The wonderful Susana Gardner has compiled a talking/musical Advent Calendar of women poets. Just click on my picture as day 14 to hear me read a poem with guitar accompaniment by Stephen B. Antonakos: http://delirioushem.blogspot.com/search/label/Delirious%20adventskalender%2009 and a new audio clip of a female poet reading her work is available each day until Christmas. Best, Wanda -- Wanda Phipps Check out my websites: http://www.mindhoney.com and http://www.myspace.com/wandaphippsband My latest book of poetry Field of Wanting: Poems of Desire available at: http://www.blazevox.org/bk-wp.htm And my 1st full-length book of poems Wake-Up Calls: 66 Morning Poems available at:http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/193236031X/ref=rm_item ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 10:40:39 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: "Maryrose ." Subject: Spare Room Marathon Reading Crystal Text Saturday! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Spare Room presents *The Crystal Text* a marathon reading *Saturday, December 19* 12:00 pm - finish (5:00ish) The Waypost Cafe 3120 N. Williams 503-367-3182 www.thewaypost.com Free admission (Audience welcome to come and go) ============================================== *The work of heaven or hell: to somehow become aware of a howling in the motors.* -- (Clark Coolidge, *The Crystal Text*, 54) As the solstice approaches, come in out of the wind and join us to listen to Clark Coolidge's compelling booklength poem *The Crystal Text*, read aloud by a dozen local writers. Readers will include James Yeary, Jesse Morse, Sam Lohmann, Maryrose Larkin, Rodney Koeneke, Patrick Hartigan, Jen Coleman, Allison Cobb, Joseph Bradshaw, Meredith Blankinship, & David Abel. "A colorless quartz crystal sits upon the writer's desk, still and irreducible as a death's head in St. Jerome's study or Cezanne's studio. But what would the crystal reveal, if it could speak? How might the issue of its presence be brought into language? The poet of *The Crystal Text*, by means of a rare stamina of attention and listening vulnerability, seeks to become the medium of the crystal's transmissions." *I began to rise but I could not leave.* *Beginning to see, one leaves the world. Taking it* *up again and again until the sheets are dark.* *An inlet of the sea sharded with sails. The sun* *coming up over a blinking multitude, specialty humans* *provided for this purpose alone. I am the one who* *stays up to see that they do not leave.* *Cardboard hinterlands of the drained liquid trace.* *Grey distances of chimney and low neighborhood.* *Wet snap.* (85) *As luck would have it the sun was charring* *the fiberglass tufts in the yard even from such a great distance.* *A granite shithouse exploded in a cloud of bee odor.* *The very earth was tacked to my wall, a ball of* *limpid snails. Glass, blown firm, and then the* *waterfall in the photograph it reminds me of.* *Prose does not care about sharps and flats. It* *continues to accumulate in the straightest of language* *keys. I put back on my cap, it says. I lost my things in the race for the car, it says. I am* *not interested in the language of my past (my trail),* *it says. It says these things and then loses* *my interest. Two blanks, curling in the same sun.* (87) *Awakened by a bang* *or sudden rent of room* *a collision of the thinking with* *where the thought is not* *or negative moon spot* *or release of the chimney from* *behind the pie tin, night* *and left partial, face erased* *prepositions for furniture* (115) If anyone is interested in other Spare Room (PDX) events and would like to join our mailing list, please contact me. Maryrose Larkin http://maryroselarkin.blogspot.com/ http://northwestresearch.blogspot.com/ Maryrose@gmail.com 503-819-9455 ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 14:00:56 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: "J. Michael Mollohan" Subject: Re: technique questions In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't think you have to use any punctuation to let a poem breathe -- it's all in the rhythm of it, its cadence, the flow. Line breaks and spacing aren't even essential. -----Original Message----- From: Poetics List (UPenn, UB) [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Mary Jo Malo Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 10:01 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: technique questions I ask the question partially because a poet once said my style didn't breathe enough, although I use line breaks extensively. Another poet said the number of spaces and empty lines indicates the length of the pause. I think the best approach to reading others' poems is to pause wherever there is a comma, line break, word spacing, etc. rather than employ our own reading habits. I've also listened to poets read their own work, and their delivery in no way matched the abundance of spacing on their page. Should the canvas of the page dictate or interfere with the breath of the poem? In addition to the ellipsis, I particularly admire the way HD used the em dash. Mary Jo -- http://thisshiningwound.blogspot.com/ http://apophisdeconstructingabsurdity.blogspot.com/ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 14:05:46 +0530 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve dalachinsky Subject: readings and a party MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit big birthday bash for yuko's 60th saturday jan 16 at tribes gallery 285 e 3rd st ave c 2nd floor 3 pm onward bring food or drink wear something red bring a creative offering _______________________________________________________ steve dalachinsky reads : hung over? (need a break between marathons?) jan.1st 2010 yuko and steve read at st marks po - marathon between 2 and 6 pm then take yer break at 8 pm at the stone east 2nd street ave. c with albey balgochian's bassentric then we read at bowery for their big po - marathon __________________________________________________ january 26, 2010 at 9 p m steve reads with matt maneri on violin at local 269 - 269 e. houston st. (at suffolk) 10$ / 7$ for seniors On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 11:44:26 +0000 Elizabeth Switaj writes: > A comma to me is, again, a catch breath though one slightly longer > than that > allowed by a line break. A dash is a little longer again. Then come > your > semicolons and colons (each with a slight tonal difference), and > periods are > almost painfully strong. Parentheses change the voice entirely and > carry > whatever length of pause that requires. A backtick is a hitch, > rather than a > proper pause, since no one really knows what to do with it. I use > less > punctuation in my poetry than in my academic prose not because I > have > anything against punctuation but because I respect the power of its > impact. > > Spacing can have a jagged effect if used moderately. If used once or > twice > and for fairly short spaces it doesn't quite register that way. If > used > excessively then the inverse comes to seem the case: that the poem > is > breaking up the white (or other background color) space. The poem > becomes an > interruption rather than being interrupted but because we expect, > when > looking at a poem, for speech to break silence, this doesn't > immediately > strike one as jagged. > > Elizabeth Kate Switaj > www.elizabethkateswitaj.net > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 11:33:52 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: amy king Subject: Translation Special! Comments: To: new-poetry-admin@wiz.cath.vt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Translation special -- http://ekleksographia.ahadadabooks.com/ballardini/index.html Judith Skillman edited -- http://ekleksographia.ahadadabooks.com/skillman/index.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 18:25:34 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Victor Yeary Subject: Portland, OR Marathon reading of THE CRYSTAL TEXT Dec 19 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Saturday, December 19 from noon till quits (around 5?) Spare Room presents a marathon reading of Clark Coolidge's book-length poem The Crystal Text at The Waypost 3120 N. Williams Ave. free--come or go at will The readers will be: David Abel, Meredith Blankinship, Joseph Bradshaw, Jen Burris, Allison Cobb, Jen Coleman, Endi Hartigan, Patrick Hartigan, Rodney Koeneke, Maryrose Larkin, Sam Lohmann, Jesse Morse, Mark Owens, and James Yeary. * Is this the only way I can now speak, arms on a board to a dumb stone? The silence of written words is perhaps correct for this connection. An off-note to think of oneself shouting against wall of crystal. Better to breathe on it, dampening and misting its striations. Best to be writing (whatever?) here in this book in its presence. The window glass is but a gross imitation of the crystal, as speech is of poetry. As a closed book is the strength of a hand brought to a perfection. Poetry is the closed voice? --The Crystal Text ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 16:07:30 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mark Weiss Subject: Bragging rights Comments: To: AFILREIS@writing.upenn.edu, labinger@verizon.net, movingvehicle@gmail.com, annetardos@att.net, anny.ballardini@gmail.com, BRITISH-IRISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, bchandler@heronpress.com, csimring@nyc.rr.com, chernandez@sibson.com, subjunctive@earthlink.net, caz_warburton@hotmail.com, c.a.b.daly@GMAIL.COM, cperez@fas.harvard.edu, chax@THERIVER.COM, chribrndt@aol.com, cqw6841@NYU.EDU, cschuste@uci.edu, remeseira@hotmail.com, wfranzen@buphy.bu.edu, cheekc@muohio.edu, dshapiro@as-coa.org, DWhite@bso.org, cheepstuff@GOOGLEMAIL.COM, david.glotzer@bnymellon.com, dmatlin@cox.net, filny@aol.com, dameadows@csupomona.edu, deenametzger@deenametzger.com, Dick.Cluster@umb.edu, sales@latambooks.com, keats@edwardkeating.com, evelyn.rucker@ucpress.edu, fsampson@poetrysociety.org.uk, G.T.Squires@hull.ac.uk, gailschneider1@cox.net, gasparorozco@hotmail.com, genyatur@gmail.com, geconomou1@comcast.net, gregg.weatherby@esc.edu, heather.vaughan@ucpress.edu, heriberto@bluebirdunion.com, heribertoyepez@gmail.com, howard@photoillustration.net, Tikihouse2@aol.com, poiesis72@yahoo.com, jasonweiss@mindspring.com, jeanalexissmith@aol.com, J.Hilson@roehampton.ac.uk, jrothenberg@cox.net, jonathan.cohen@stonybrook.edu, antolinnyc@aol.com, jkozer@comcast.net, JAMaio@aol.com, jbalizsprince@googlemail.com, jbalizsprince@googlemail.com, hkfleis@ilstu.edu, laura.a.collins@gmail.com, lindy.jolly@utdallas.edu, ltumbleson@gmail.com, Lourdes.Gil@baruch.cuny.edu, lhoma@yahoo.com, lhoma@yahoo.com, margaret.b.carson@gmail.com, hmbc2008@gmail.com, pitite@hotmail.com, mperloff@earthlink.net, msmexico2@gmail.com, newellm@centenarycollege.edu, maxishaw@yahoo.com, stephensmg@hotmail.com, schmidt@carcanet.co.uk, m.cotugno@verizon.net, michelle.gil-montero@stvincent.edu, mh7@nyu.edu, mimi-albert@earthlink.net, mdltorre@bway.net, ntarn@q.com, ned@qbadisc.com, new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu, Norieclarke@gmail.com, ploesel@timberlandproperties.net, p.gizzi@comcast.net, priley@WAITROSE.COM, POETRYETC@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, rachel.berchten@ucpress.edu, ramon.smith@ucpress.edu, poetry@wildhoneypress.com, richardjeffreynewman@ME.COM, robin.hamilton2@btinternet.com, rose.vekony@ucpress.edu, shafogarty@gmail.com, simonp@pipeline.com, ss@poetryproject.org, cccpoetry@aol.com, stephen@poetshouse.org, steph484@PACBELL.NET, sclay@GRANARYBOOKS.COM, sjlevine@spanport.ucsb.edu, sparker@brookdalecc.edu, inuma@hotmail.com, terri.ehrenfeld@verizon.net, tscotpeterson@gmail.com, thomas.leonard@ntlworld.com, editor@shearsman.com, vertor@GMAIL.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry, edited by yours truly, was just listed on the Harriet Blog as one of the 10 best poetry books of the year. http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2009/12/the-best-poetry-of-the-year/ Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry (University of California Press). Forthcoming in November 2009. http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 14:49:41 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Vernon Frazer's new web site and blog Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1077) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii 'm pleased to announce that my new web site is up, at long last! = www.vernonfrazer.net contains many new features, including a PDF of the = complete IMPROVISATIONS. I also have launched a blog relates to the = site. If you go to = http://bellicosewarbling.blogspot.com/2009/12/since-my-first-post-ive-been= -too-busy.html you can read about all the changes I've made to the site. = Visit the blog and the site and find out what I've been up to. Some of = what you see might surprise you. Vernon= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 12:13:44 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Paul Nelson Subject: Re: technique questions In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Am surprised no one mentioned the two salient Levertov essays on this subject: "On the Function of the Line" and "Linebreaks, Stanza-Spaces, and the Inner Voice." Both are in New & Selected Essays, published by New Directions. Also, Olson's Projective Verse is quite relevant here. John Olson has a thing or two to say about linbreaks in this intelligent review of a book close to my heart: http://seattle.readinglocal.com/archives/2848#more-2848 Happy December, Paul Nelson Paul E. Nelson Global Voices Radio SPLAB! C. City, WA 206.422.5002 ________________________________ From: Elizabeth Switaj To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Tue, December 15, 2009 3:44:26 AM Subject: Re: technique questions A comma to me is, again, a catch breath though one slightly longer than that allowed by a line break. A dash is a little longer again. Then come your semicolons and colons (each with a slight tonal difference), and periods are almost painfully strong. Parentheses change the voice entirely and carry whatever length of pause that requires. A backtick is a hitch, rather than a proper pause, since no one really knows what to do with it. I use less punctuation in my poetry than in my academic prose not because I have anything against punctuation but because I respect the power of its impact. Spacing can have a jagged effect if used moderately. If used once or twice and for fairly short spaces it doesn't quite register that way. If used excessively then the inverse comes to seem the case: that the poem is breaking up the white (or other background color) space. The poem becomes an interruption rather than being interrupted but because we expect, when looking at a poem, for speech to break silence, this doesn't immediately strike one as jagged. Elizabeth Kate Switaj www.elizabethkateswitaj.net ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 15:36:35 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Adam Katz Subject: Re: technique questions In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 My point about, the out-of-place comma was simply that it's something, for me at least, that seems not-normal, therefore it holds me up - literally gives me pause. (Had a great 10th-grade English teacher (nicknamed "D minus Decker") who would take off eleven points out of 100 for a comma splice - it was possible to get negative scores on vocab homework - so I guess it got drilled into me that there is a Proper and an Improper way to use commas. Teaching writing, it's also something one is especially sensitive to. Colons, semicolons, 'spatial' spacing, all these seem to me like Normal things in poetry. They don't make me hesitate, wait, go backwards. I believe the original question was about how to create a "simple pause" - perhaps I took it literally. Consider this recent poem by Gabriel Gudding: http://chax.org/eoagh/issuefive/gudding.html Good example of a poem that uses Commas to change the ripple of our reading. a ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 17:34:18 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: eric unger Subject: Chicago: Saturday at Spudnik: House Press Book Release / Reading feat. Eric Unger, Luke Daly, Barrett Gordon, Michael Slosek MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Saturday, December 19th 8pm House Press is celebrating the release of four new books with a reading by the four authors: Barrett Gordon: Bodyhome Luke Daly: VATS Michael Slosek: The Sequel Eric Unger: Bastion We'll have books for sale. Some beer will be provided, but you're encouraged to bring more! Spudnik Press 1821 W. Hubbard, Suite 308 Chicago, IL purchase the books at http://housepress.blogspot.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 23:38:18 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Elizabeth Switaj Subject: Re: technique questions In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Mary Jo, Many years ago, someone told me that the only reason my poems weren't unreadably dense was the extent to which I used space. I suspect that what you've been told isn't about breath per se but, rather, white space, the visual equivalent of breath whether we choose to let it control how we speak it or not. We have pretty much been trained to ignore any space to the right of a poem; that's just expected to be there. If you're poems were indented or centered or anything but flush left, I think said poet would have read your work differently. Elizabeth Kate Switaj www.elizabethkateswitaj.net ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 00:52:08 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Justin Katko Subject: DING DING :: Ryan Dobran In-Reply-To: <3bf622560912161644i707f087asecad6b2f070abbc0@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable IF there were an expat American poetry scene in Cambridge (ENGLAND), with its own exclusive reading series (Jefferson Davis College, Cloister 3), private parties in the canal boat named "Ascendancy of Corn Meal", frontier scare tactics, excellent jock lighting, secret Mexican restaurants, DIAMOND ROPES, perimetric architectus, site of perfections, fuck recycled / party molds, head of milk as our rate master, you see what comes next in quotes, etc; THEN Ryan Dobran's new poem, DING DING, out now AS A pamphlet from Critical Documents, would veritably NOT BE its masthead. Editorial offices of said contemporary poetry press admits that it is dripping with hubris packet glow dust in foil to announce the BUY NOW deal which goes: FREE WITH PURCHASE (at single instance carry-away rate of =A38/$5, 25pp) comes DING DING's very own BLACK AND WHITE glossy cover, 5 EXTREME graphics, 2 EASY staples, and NO MENTION of the author's previous volume, YOUR GUILT IS A MIRACLE (Bad Press). NOT BUYING DING DING WOULD BE NOTHING LIKE READING DING DING AFTER BUYING IT. Requests for trades and review copies WELCOME. http://plantarchy.us/dingding.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 17:01:01 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: citation from list? In-Reply-To: <1dec21ae0912151035w5fd6cb9eicaa5c38d060456e7@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Murat and Everyone__ I've written two essays re the Guanatanamo poets that are online-- on is in word for word #13 and the other in the KauyrabTranslation site sorry i on way to work and cant send the info at moment but a search will f= ind them-- the wordforword one is entitled "Waterbaording and Poetry: Francois Villon= and the New Extreme Experimental Poetry" i've been involvd in a various prisoner's ghroups for years now--both ones = here in Milwaukee directly and others indirectly elsewhere=2C b petititons= =2C articles=2C reviews etc - i dont like to disappoint my friend steve but i am not circling the earth o= n the contrary only too firnmly embedded inthe community i am involved with= here which is the long forgotten War--thelong overloomed--the war abroad t= hat comes home=2C the gift that keeps on giving--drugs-- a beeline from afghanistan to the street outside my window at m blog you'll find a major theme is poetry and torture-- the poet novelst bolano wrote a great book=2Ctwo --on the subject--diostant= star and by night in chile--(distant star ius from the last "episode" of n= azi lit in the americas-- mail art and visual poetry (primarily outside the us) have dealt with these= issues for years-but in america the silence=2C or quiet=2C is pretty deafe= ning most of the time- at thanksgiving i was with a friend who is the cousin of my adopted family = here--finaly after two years he is not a wlking bomb from the war in iran-- all these things vioolene torture drigs p[overty al=3B these fialed wars- the tol is right here--and to paraphrese the oberdada of berlin jophannes b= aader--"da=2C da da"--there there there each particle one wlaks on is the legacy of the death of the ancestors here= - my ancestors and --al gthe blood spread evrywhere around the world--even t= he nobel peace prize speech is al about more war war wr its starts in the heart nd body to be alive a very great deal of work but w= ork is more worth it than peace? may be i am living in outer space after all! time to go work- david > Date: Tue=2C 15 Dec 2009 13:35:41 -0500 > From: muratnn@GMAIL.COM > Subject: Re: citation from list? > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >=20 > Maria=2C >=20 > Don't you think at some point the the absolutely objective and the > absolutely subjective (the absolutely outside=2C e-.g. the Guantanamo > "inmates=2C" and the absolutely inside) coincide creating a new kind of > freedom which escapes the shackles of the authoritarian thought or langua= ge> >=20 > Murat >=20 >=20 > On Mon=2C Dec 14=2C 2009 at 10:48 PM=2C Maria Damon wr= ote: >=20 > > Dear friends: > > Back in 2006 or 2007=2C there was a discussion about outsider art on th= e > > list=2C and someone wrote the following: > > > > "Funny=2C how it ... makes me think of 14th century German ... iconic > > Christian paintings in devotion to and in celebration of various Biblic= al > > allegories. I remember a CAA annual conference in Boston in which the > > lecturer showed infra-red (?) slides of the under-painting (preliminary > > sketches) for various works. Instead of stiff depictions of iconic > > allegorical figures=2C we were given a very naturalistic view of the mo= dels - > > men=2C women and children - drawn from the village around the school wh= ere the > > works were painted=2C definitely made to conform to and please the stri= ctures > > of the Church. Following the argument here=2C the 'outsider' art was ac= tually > > secreted into the interior life of the 'inside' of the Church. I guess = we > > might call these 'under paintings' a case of =91insider=92 art. Ironica= lly it's > > taken 6 centuries to bring the work into view. ... it's definitely of t= he > > material world=2C and not of allegory made. Somehow brings up the recol= lection > > of the story of prisoners in Quantanamo [sic] making poems on thin stri= ps of > > the paper pealed back from paper cups - and passing those strips among = each > > other. Definitely 'insider' art by 'outsiders.'" > > > > I thought it was Stephen Vincent=2C in response to a post by David-Bapt= iste > > Chirot=2C but I can't find it in the archives. Any ideas? > > bests=2C md > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidel= ines > > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Free=2C trusted and rich email service. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 17:12:02 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Book Announcement: The First 100 Days of Obama Comments: To: UK POETRY , "Poetryetc: poetry and poetics" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable …He asked the= =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=E2=80=A6He asked the= new=0APresident if he had read Beckett, in particular, Godot? No, the Pres= ident=0Aresponded, there is no, not one Godot in the works. Only the Tree, = there, in the middle of the road.=0AThe trouble is that it forks one way, t= hen another. We as a Nation are a split=0ATree. It=E2=80=99s as simple & co= mplicated as that=E2=80=A6 =0A=0A=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=0ADAY 44, March 4,=0A2009 =0A=0AAnnouncing: =0A=0A=C2=A0 =0A=0AThe Firs= t 100 Days of=0AObama =0A=0Aby Stephen Vincent =0A=0A=C2=A0 =0A=0A100 hapti= c drawings and 100 journal entries first published=0Asimultaneously with th= e April 29, 2009 exhibit at Steven Wolf Fine Arts Gallery. =0A=0ASigned, Li= mited Edition of=0A75 copies. =0A=0A7.4 x 9.75=E2=80=9D=C2=A0 (vertical) = =0A=0A204 pages =0A=0A=C2=A0 =0A=0APublished by: =0A=0ASteven Wolf Fine Art= s =0A=0A49 Geary Street, Suite=0A411 =0A=0ASan Francisco, CA 94108 =0A=0ATe= l: 415-263-3677 =0A=0A=C2=A0 =0A=0AISBN 978-1-61623-499-7 =0A=0APrice: $25 = =0A=0APlus $5 for U.S.A. Priority=0AMail Delivery, including handling charg= es. =0A=0A$12 Global Priority,=0Aincluding handling charges. =0A=0A=C2=A0 = =0A=0APay by check or for details on how to make payment by PayPal or=0Acre= dit card =0A=0Aemail the Gallery: =C2=A0=C2=A0stevenwolffinearts@gmail.com = =0A=0A(subject=0Aline) Obama Book Ordering Info. Thanks for your interest. The entire suite of haptic drawings may be viewed= by going to the individual Obama blog entries beween January 21 & April 29= , starting at:http://stephenvincent.net/blog/?m=3D20090121.=C2=A0=20 These entries also include the raw, unedited text entries.=20 =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 20:22:21 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: CA Conrad Subject: (Soma)tic Poetry DANCE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 This Friday: http://CAConradEVENTS.blogspot.com -- PhillySound: new poetry http://PhillySound.blogspot.com THE BOOK OF FRANK by CAConrad http://CAConrad.blogspot.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 18:06:26 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: citation from list? In-Reply-To: <8485c0440912151137x5ef86847l1c90f650591e3491@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable i just learend i have a few moments here to send the addresses for the guan= tanamo articles i wrote--re the poems that is--on line at my log there has been covergaeof the book a year before it came out=2C u= ntil it was published=2C and the non-greeting the book received for reasons= discussed in the essays David-Baptiste Chirot // Word For/Word: A Journal of New Writing ... Robert Pinsky=2C former Poet Laureate=2C while acknowledging the situation = of poetry in a raw state of the Guantanamo poems=2C also remarked: "No Ma= ndelstams here ...www.wordforword.info/vol13/dbc.htmKAURAB Online :: A Beng= ali Poetry Webzine :: Translation Site With the Guantanamo Poems=2C as Flagg Miller suggests in his excellent ....= David Baptiste Chirot is an amazing litterateur=2C artist=2C reader and = critic. ...kaurab.tripod.com/english/books/guant=85 i thnk also an issue that is never discuyssed here is the concentration cam= p that is Gaza=2C the world's largest ever prison=2C paid for with us money since the US openy supports Apartheid=2C isit not a reflection of the US va= lues in re other opulations around the world and in the USA itself where now=2C poet Obama=2C the American Indian Rezervations in the USA have the l= owest living conditions of any people except their partners at the bottom= =3D=3Dthe Haitians=2C who of course are not to find homes ionm US as are re= fuigees from Cuba for example-- i writing of art=2Cm=2C poetry and my own methods=2C iu write of Finding t= he Found--everyhwere unseen=2C unheard=2C untouched--all around us--"right = before our very eyes and right under our feet" thids Found one may extend to al this issues which like Gaza become so much= a question of sub-human treatment yet which are never mentioned ny our Gre= at Leaders of Democracy and Rights =2C as are not mentioned either the Amer= ican Indians and so many others- this policay of NOT seeing NOT hearing NOT touching then is a question wher= e the arts and poetry converge with the issuesof human rights-- if one ius sient about the Unseen the UnREADS the Unwritten=2C al the sieln= ces that mount and mount to deafen out al but the very greatest of speakers= who only say NO again-- in this realm of silence there dwells also the silence of poetry=2C the art= s=2C a silence due to fear=2C a silence which will not confront the all too= vivid criumes against humanity from Guantanamo to Gaza from the huge overf= lowing numberone prison suystem in the usa--number on in prision population= --over two million--and leading the world also in percentage of poulation i= n prision-- the prision is always Elsewhere--somehwere over the Walls--so no one sees t= hem--instead the walls as along Isreli highways are painted to show bucolic= pastoral views-- that way the Walls Wall OUT--the cmps of today-- al paid for with the us dollar-- i think that one wil find that sielnce nbegins to eat away at the fabric of= language=2C like a rotting woven rug which begins to splay and its threads= to be tossed by the prison winds . . . horror soriesof the tratmentsof the detaineesof any kind in the usa--the "G= itmos Across America" which grow like cancers by the day- the Frenc writer Vidal-Nacquet wrote a great book calling "Torture: the Can= acer of Democracy" in analyzing its effects on France during the Algerian W= ar oif Independence 1195201962 (Algeria isleading the "little nations" in the revolt at Copenhagen agsint = the big polluters who have decided to let the little countries pay for the = cleanup of the mess they did not contribute to-- the question is not why arent tht activist poetires etc becuase that is a t= erm which is immediately confusing to peo-pe the real questions at the heart of language is its disintgration=2C its app= roaching the Orwellian frontiers in which the Peace Prize Speech becomes a = justification for an ever expanding war-- now a week after the Speech the President's Crew announce the first drone a= ttacks on a Pakistani city--with a population of 850=2C000-- in the situation one lives in=2C what becomes of dire importance to sound m= elodramatic about it=2C what is important is what is happening to and with = language-- themore things are disapearedin klanguage themore they will vanish in actua= lity- the more they are erased and chnaged in the virtual realm=2C the more these= palimsests will try to abolish peoples places things=2C ideas=2C images-- (i've written a number of essayson this topic including at the MADAY journa= l site "Virtuality as the Transcendent in Revrse--the Deleting of persons f= or the sake of new Virtual Walls . . .=20 on the worst American Indian rezervations for example=2C the only way for t= he Indians to findout the information they need for health care=2C unless a= worker drivesout into "remote distances" to deliver the info by hand-theon= ly way to obtain this precious info is from the site for it on US Gov.com-- too bad for the Indians they don't have any computers! too bad many have no electrcity either! thisis how siencing "works" provide a service incmpatible with the ability of the served so called to b= e served-- in other words=2C as always=2C it's ALL THE INDIANS' FAULT! you see--one may be writing poetry also for which there is no destination-n= o receiver-- or one mabe deliberately deprived of poetry--being "too remote" and all=2C = you know-- what exists in the actual worlkd becomes in face of the virtaul--a non-real= ity the viortual may be used for its own forms of "ethnic cleansing" and "class= cleasing"--"idea cleansing"--simply by vanihsing those things which do not= have a correspoancde inthe virtual worlds-- and to make sure of their non-intrustion=2C these actual things beings even= ts one begins with the deletions on line and finishes them off with the dletions in Real Time=2C Real Space-- this has already hapened in Rwanda=2C Burma=2C chunks of Palestine--parts o= f Iraq and Afghanistan-- the new way of seeing is the target-eye-- and hence surivie what there are of the unseen unheard untouched-- thel=3Bonger one is excluded from the virtual the harder=2C the greater pri= sce one must pay=2C to enter into it-- what will happens when as Burroughs' wrote--the reality studios are stormed= ? this boundary line of the studio--when wil it be crossed and the actual eru= pt into the virtual? everyday how many Disappeareds "appear" in themidst of populations? wlaking= dead--shadows imblazoned into Walls-- what happens to lang8age when it begins to realize it must decide between a= collusion with disapperance and language of a few for a few-- or wil language become like a bounty hunter in the sergio leone film: "When life was not worth living=2C and death=2C too=2C had a price--then th= e boounty hunters came." the bounty hunters amnswered the cal of tensof thosandsof dropped leafletsi= n afghansitan and iraq--turned into most of the poets and prisioners of Gua= ntanamo-- poetry begins when one realizes the things poetry is supposed to be quiet a= bout-- it no longer wil shut up about- to crash the Walls of silence=2C invisiblity the literal waste lands-the un= toched- > Date: Tue=2C 15 Dec 2009 13:37:39 -0600 > From: rhstigge@GMAIL.COM > Subject: Re: citation from list? > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >=20 > Maria=2C > It was in response to Sylvester Pollet: > fromStephen Vincent > reply-toUB Poetics discussion group > toPOETICS@listserv.buffalo.edu > dateSat=2C Mar 10=2C 2007 at 1:40 PM > subjectRe: Outsider Art > mailed-bylistserv.buffalo.edu > unsubscribeUnsubscribe from this sender > hide details 3/10/07 > Yes=2C agree with Murat=2C David=2C a wonderful=2C insightful post. >=20 > Funny=2C how it also makes me think of 14th century German (I believe) ic= onic > Christian paintings in devotion to and in celebration of various Biblical > allegories. I remember a CAA annual conference in Boston in which the > lecturer showed infra-red (?) slides of the under-painting (preliminary > sketches) for various works. Instead of stiff depictions of iconic > allegorical figures=2C we were given a very naturalistic view of the mod= els - > men=2C women and children - drawn from the village around the school wher= e the > works were painted=2C definitely made to conform to and please the stric= tures > of the Church. > Following the argument here=2C the 'outsider' art was actually secreted i= nto > the interior life of the 'inside' of the Church. I guess we might call > these 'under paintings' a case of "insider" art. Ironically it's taken 6 > centuries to bring the work into view. I don't know if the work will eve= r > achieve the attention of Courbet - but it's definitely of the material > world=2C and not of allegory made. >=20 > Somehow brings up the recollection of the story of prisoners in Quantanam= o > making poems on thin strips of the paper pealed back from paper cups - an= d > passing those strips among each other. Definitely 'insider' art by > 'outsiders.' >=20 > Stephen V > http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ > On Mon=2C Dec 14=2C 2009 at 9:48 PM=2C Maria Damon wro= te: > > > > Dear friends: > > Back in 2006 or 2007=2C there was a discussion about outsider art on th= e list=2C and someone wrote the following: > > > > "Funny=2C how it ... makes me think of 14th century German ... iconic C= hristian paintings in devotion to and in celebration of various Biblical al= legories. I remember a CAA annual conference in Boston in which the lecture= r showed infra-red (?) slides of the under-painting (preliminary sketches) = for various works. Instead of stiff depictions of iconic allegorical figure= s=2C we were given a very naturalistic view of the models - men=2C women an= d children - drawn from the village around the school where the works were = painted=2C definitely made to conform to and please the strictures of the C= hurch. Following the argument here=2C the 'outsider' art was actually secre= ted into the interior life of the 'inside' of the Church. I guess we might = call these 'under paintings' a case of =91insider=92 art. Ironically it's t= aken 6 centuries to bring the work into view. ... it's definitely of the ma= terial world=2C and not of allegory made. Somehow brings up the recollectio= n of the story of prisoners in Quantanamo [sic] making poems on thin strips= of the paper pealed back from paper cups - and passing those strips among = each other. Definitely 'insider' art by 'outsiders.'" > > > > I thought it was Stephen Vincent=2C in response to a post by David-Bapt= iste Chirot=2C but I can't find it in the archives. Any ideas? > > bests=2C md > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidel= ines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft=92s powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 15:14:38 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Joel Chace Subject: Theatrical Event Comments: To: Mark Chace , Mark Kuniya , Mary Ann Parks , Matthew Kearney , oana nechita , Michael Neff , Nico Vassilakis , Otoliths Editor , Pam Brown , Pierre Joris , Tim Peterson , Wanda Phipps , Rick , Dan Raphael , Robert Dowling , Robert Dowling , Robert Lietz , Ron Silliman , Diane Wald , Kyle Schlesinger , Tom Rahauser , Tree Riesener , Country Valley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: CONTACT: Adam Klasfeld=09 adam@onearmedman.org In Association with Subjective Theatre Company=92s Play Reading Series One Armed Man Presents FUNDAMENTALISM By Joel Chace December 15, 2009 (New York, NY) =96 In association with the producing Subjective Theatre Company, One Armed Man will be an assisting co-producer of Joel Chace=92s new play Fundamentalism, which will have a developmental reading on January 13, 2010 at 7pm at Under St. Marks (94 St. Marks Place). In Fundamentalism, a woman picks up a man in a bar for a one night stand, and she finds an ex-boyfriend =96 and his new lover =96 in her house. Sexual couplings and triplings ensue, until the man who stumbled into the free-for-all discovers that the three strangers have been sent on a highly lucrative mission to derail his life and alter his perceptions. Artistic director Adam Klasfeld directs the show, which is a part of Subjective Theatre Company=92s Reading Series. Featuring: Dan Cozzens, Sarah Koestner, Chris Keogh and Yesim Ak. The author of more than a dozen print and electronic poetry collections, Joel Chace=92s play Triptych was presented as a staged reading produced by Amphibian Productions at Manhattan=92s ArcLight Theatre in April 2004. Fundamentalism will be his second play to receive a staged reading. His other plays include To the Thieves and Decorative Hermits. As a poet, Chace has been published in 6ix, Tomorrow, Lost and Found Times, Coracle, xStream, and Jacket. From BlazeVox Books is Cleaning the Mirror: New and Selected Poems, and from Paper Kite Press is Matter No Matter, another full-length collection. Recently out from Country Valley Press is Scaffold, the first part of an ongoing poetic sequence, "(b)its," from Meritage Press, and A Script, from Otoliths Books. For many years, Chace has been Poetry Editor for the experimental electronic magazine 5_Trope. Director Adam Klasfeld wrote and helmed the Mark Twain docudrama The Report of My Death, which recently premiered aboard the Steamship Lilac after developmental previews in New Jersey, New Mexico and Alaska. His drama The Prostitute of Reverie Valley went through developments at the Flea in Manhattan and the Last Frontier Theatre Conference in Alaska before premiering at the 2006 New York International Fringe Festival. His tragicomedy Good Fences Make Good Neighbors received a chashama AREA Award, and opened to critical acclaim at the 2005 FringeNYC. He is the artistic director of the production company One Armed Man, and is also a journalist and director. The Subjective Theatre Company is dedicated to producing a wide range of politically and socially relevant theatre and presenting it at no cost to the public. It aspires to create work that consistently challenges and entertains our audience while inspiring creativity and social responsibility within our community. # # # =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 02:24:59 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jim Andrews Subject: Art games MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Here's an essay I wrote recently called Art, Games and Play: http://www.ciac.ca/magazine/perspective.htm The essay was commissioned by the Centre for International Contemporary Art in Montréal (CIAC). They do various things which include publishing an online magazine concerned with "cyberculture, art and literature". The issue this essay is in is about art games. It also includes a review I wrote ( http://www.ciac.ca/magazine/compterendu.htm ) on A Philosophy of Computer Art by Dominic McIver Lopes, and a video interview with him ( http://www.ciac.ca/magazine/entrevue.htm ) I did a few months ago. Lopes's book is the first one I know of by a philosopher who develops a philosophy of art in which the computer is crucial as medium. It's kind of a crucial book to thinking about such art, I think. It makes some basic distinctions and definitions that need to be made. It certainly isn't the last word on the matter, but it's a good start. The reason the CIAC published the review and interview with Lopes is because Lopes's philosophy of computer art, which stresses the importance of interactivity, looks at computer games as part of computer art. This issue of the CIAC's online magazine is at http://www.ciac.ca/magazine ja http://vispo.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 10:20:42 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: amy king Subject: Sunday, December 20th -- Elaine Equi / Bob Viscusi Amy King / Doug Holder & Ana Bozicevic with music by Brant Lyon Comments: To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable We'll save you from the evil snowmen! Brave the flakes & come on over for a= n impromptu holiday spectacular.=0A=0A=0A=0AElaine Equi / Bob Viscusi =0AAm= y King / Doug Holder =0A& Ana Bozicevic=0Awith music by Brant Lyon=0A=0A=0A= =0Ahosted by Iris N. Schwartz=0A=0A=0ASunday, December 20, 2009=0ATime: 6= :00pm - 8:00pm=0A=0ACornelia Street Caf=E9=0A29 Cornelia St.=0A(between Ble= ecker & West 4th Sts.)=0ANYC=0Awww.corneliastreetcafe.com =0A=0A=0A=0ADirec= tions: All trains to West 4th St. or # 1 train to Christopher St.=0ACover: = $7 (includes one house drink)=0A=0A=0Ahttp://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid= =3D210563179538=0A =0A_______=0A=0ANEW BOOK=0ASlaves to Do These Things -- = http://www.blazevox.org/bk-ak3.htm =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 13:49:46 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Ungly Ducking Presse: fund raising letter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The best in town, the best, the best The best in town Not a quack, not a quack, not a waddle or a quack But a glide and a whistle and a snowy white back And a head so noble and high . . . —Frank Loesser I was honored to join the board of Ugly Duckling Presse near to its start. It struck me at the time as one of the best small presses I had ever encountered. Over the years I think that has become apparent to just about anyone who pays attention to such things – and I know that’s true of you our there in virtual reality. Here’s the thing (you’ve heard it before): for Ugly Duckling to survive and thrive, it needs the financial support of those who share my commitment to its remarkable and necessary work. Subscriptions: http://uglyducklingpresse.org/subscriptions.html UDP has recently announced its 2010 “Full Presse Subscription.” The editors note that “this is going to be one of the Presse's most ambitious years yet, with more than 25 titles planned, including new poetry by emerging and established authors, artist books, works in translation, new titles in the Lost Literature series, and more.” UDP’s Full Presse “basic” subscription is a great deal at $150, which covers the cost of production and postage. Subscriptions are limited to 200 per year, to guarantee that all subscribers receive the hand-made chapbooks and ephemera in addition to the "regular" books. While the basic subscription gets the books out, which is the whole point of UDP, this basic subscription is not a donation. I hope you will consider becoming a “Supporting Subscriber” ($250) or joining the “Collector’s Circle” ($1,000). By contributing at one of these levels, you receive the full subscription package while making a tax-deductible contribution to the Presse. The editors note that supporting contributors “will be acknowledged on our donor list and invited to a UDP cocktail reception, to be held in Spring 2010, a unique opportunity to meet writers, editors, designers, and board members. Collector's Circle subscribers will also receive a one-of-a-kind book, written and designed by the UDP collective, and will be credited in our print catalog.” UDP also welcomes cash donations , which can be sent via the link or to the press by mail. All contributors will be added to UDP's list of supporters. And hey!: it’s not really an ugly ducking. It’s a swan. Yours, truly, Charles Bernstein for UGLY DUCKLING PRESSE at the Old American Can Factory 232 Third Street, #E-002 Brooklyn, NY 11215 ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 18:11:02 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: Re: technique questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Thank you, Elizabeth, and all who've responded. -- http://thisshiningwound.blogspot.com/ http://apophisdeconstructingabsurdity.blogspot.com/ Mary Jo, Many years ago, someone told me that the only reason my poems weren't unreadably dense was the extent to which I used space. I suspect that what you've been told isn't about breath per se but, rather, white space, the visual equivalent of breath whether we choose to let it control how we speak it or not. We have pretty much been trained to ignore any space to the right of a poem; that's just expected to be there. If you're poems were indented or centered or anything but flush left, I think said poet would have read your work differently. Elizabeth Kate Switaj www.elizabethkateswitaj.net ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 00:34:53 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Elizabeth Switaj Subject: Re: technique questions In-Reply-To: <461e0fe0912161336o441e73aal406674474aad6886@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Adam, If something makes you stop, hesitate, and go backwards, that would seem to be a bit more than a simple pause, wouldn't it? (If anyone's being too literal here, it's me.) Then again, if you use the same symbol in the same idiosyncratic way repeatedly throughout a long poem or collection, the reader will get used to it, and the pause will come to be simple or disappear entirely. (I'm basing this on my own experience reading The Descent of Alette with all its quotation marks.) I think the key, then, is not to select one way of injecting a pause as the best but rather to be aware of range of options that function differently. Anything, not just commas; placed where; you don't: expect; them can create the more complex sort of pause. Elizabeth Kate Switaj www.elizabethkateswitaj.net ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 21:44:48 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: cris cheek Subject: Re: (Soma)tic Poetry DANCE In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i'm gonna be in Philly for my pains at the MLA ;=) so i'll be in town 20th thru 30th maybe new years anything going on i can go to . . . even be involved in / / ?? welcome any leads thanx and c u xx cris On Dec 16, 2009, at 8:22 PM, CA Conrad wrote: > This Friday: http://CAConradEVENTS.blogspot.com > > > -- > PhillySound: new poetry http://PhillySound.blogspot.com > > THE BOOK OF FRANK by CAConrad http://CAConrad.blogspot.com > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/ > welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 13:35:26 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Ou, a language game (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="0-1879108492-1261074926=:8576" This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --0-1879108492-1261074926=:8576 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 11:33:11 -0500 From: "tENTATIVELY, a cONVENIENCE" To: idioideo@verizon.net Subject: Ou, a language game Ou, English, a language game invented by tENTATIVELY, a cONVENIENCE (the 142nd so-so deservedly obscure OuLiPoian writer - who's, nonetheless, been writing this way since 1968 or 1969) on Friday, December 11, 2009EV, in wch 3 words' having many meanings in many different languages is exploited in order to construct texts using ONLY these 3 words - the meaning being derived by then translating those words' multiple meanings. In the case of Ou, the only 3 words to be used are Ou, Li & Po. There are various ways of playing this game: As a writer, one can rewrite, in part or in whole, an OuLiPo (Ouvroir de litt=E9rature potentielle - Workshop of Potential Literature) work not only using the restriction of just the 3 words but also using the restriction of the original work. EG: Po-po-po ou, Po' Ou po po po-li-li-po. Po ou PO li po po po po. Po po Ou po po po ou-po po ou po, po po po po-po, po po ou ou-po-po-li? ou po po Li Po po ou LI; po, OU li PO ou li ou li, li ou po-po ou LI-ou po-li, po li li po po. Translation: Antipodal-of-aid moonstruck, Poor Girl as fluid pouring out from a spout antipodal-to-you-that-sundown. According to your Working Program it as at a temporality night. Along a small thing Girl bottom over, hand cloud-skin at girl tail, to flap rind down from chaw-skin, jump on the bottom girl whom-during-location-it? and to drift all along Li Po pot or 51; butt, compulsory valuing it Working Program crazy to you in girl what, it ovum antipodal-a-small-thing moonstruck 51-ovum antipodal-smallpox, to gush it yon in against. po =3D "opposite" in Earth Minimal - using the synonym "antipodal" here po =3D "of" in Croatian po =3D "cure" in Kimbu - using the synonym "aid" here ou =3D "moonstruck" in Gilbertese (Gilbert Adair Tease?) po' =3D "poor" in African-American abbreviation ou =3D "girl" in Kwanyama po =3D "as water poured from a spout" in Chewa - using "fluid" as a synonym for =09"water" here po =3D "on" in Czech, Danish (Transliterated), Kwanyama, Lithuanian, Polish, Serbian =09(Latin Script), Slovenian, & Ukranian (Latin Script) po =3D "opposite" in Earth Minimal - using the synonym "antipodal" here li =3D "to you" in Catalan li =3D "that" in Haitian Creole po =3D "sunset" in Marquesan - using the synonym "sundown" here po =3D "according to" in Serbian ou =3D "your" in Creole & Haitian Creole PO =3D "Operational Program" in Portuguese & Spanish - using "working" as a =09synonym for "operational" here li =3D "it" in Haitian Creole po =3D "as" in Catalan, Faroese, Icelandic, Malay, Papiamentu, & Tagalong po =3D "at a time" in Slovio - using "temporality" as a synonym for "time" here po =3D "of" in Croatian po =3D "night" in Samoan po =3D "along" in Czech po =3D "a small thing" in Ainu ou =3D "girl" in Kwanyama po =3D "botty" in German & "bottom" in Limburgian po =3D "over" in Czech, Lithuanian, Polish, Slovak, Slovak old, =09& Ukranian (Latin Script) po =3D "hand" in Guarani ou =3D "cloud" in Fijian po =3D "skin" in Creole & Haitian Creole po =3D "at" in Esperanto, Lithuanian, & Polish ou =3D "girl" in Kwanyama po =3D "backside" in Limburgian - using "tail" as a synonym po =3D "to flutter" in Denya - using "flap" as a synonym po =3D "rind" in Creole & Haitian Creole po =3D "beneath" in Lithuanian - using "down from" as a synonym po =3D "chew" in Taiwanese (Transliterated) - using "chaw" as a synonym po =3D "skin" in Creole & Haitian Creole po =3D "jump" in Guarani (Transliterated) po =3D "under" in Lithuanian - using "on the bottom" as a synonym ou =3D "girl" in Kwanyama ou =3D "whom" in Chiga po =3D "when" in Swahili - using "during" as a synonym po =3D "where" In Swahili - using "location" as a synonym li =3D "it' In Haitian Creole ou =3D "and" in Danish (Transliterated) po =3D "to flutter" in Denya - using "drift" as a synonym po =3D "all along" in Czech Li Po =3D a particular Chinese poet po =3D "pot" in Creole, Dutch, Haitian Creole, & Netherlands ou =3D "or" in Brazilian Portuguese, Creole, French, French Canadian, Galician, =09& Portuguese LI =3D "51" in Roman Numerals po =3D "botty", "arse" in German - written here as "butt" as a pun on "but" OU =3D "expenditure necessarily resulting from the treaty or from acts adopted in =09accordance therewith" or "compulsory expenditure"in Danish - using =09"compulsory valuing" as a synonym li =3D "it" in Haitian Creole PO =3D "Operational Program" in Portuguese & Spanish - using "working" as a =09synonym for "operational" here ou =3D "insane" in Gilbertese - using "crazy" as a synonym li =3D "to you" in Catalan po =3D "in" in Croatian, French, Lituanian, & Serbian (Latin Script) ou =3D "girl" in Kwanyama li =3D "what" in Wolof li =3D "it" in Haitian Creole ou =3D "egg" in Catalan, Polish, Romanian, Romanian (Latin Script), =09Romanian (Transliterated), Sardinian, Sardinian (Campidanese), =09& Valencian - using "ovum" as a synonym po =3D "opposite" in Earth Minimal - using "antipodal" as a synonym po =3D "a small thing" in Ainu ou =3D "moonstruck" in Gilbertese LI =3D "51" in Roman Numerals ou =3D "egg" in Catalan, Polish, Romanian, Romanian (Latin Script), =09Romanian (Transliterated), Sardinian, Sardinian (Campidanese), =09& Valencian - using "ovum" as a synonym po =3D "for" in Czech, Ido & Sardinian (Campidanese) po =3D "opposite" in Earth Minimal - using "antipodal" as a synonym li =3D "smallpox" in Albanian po =3D "to gush" in Chewa li =3D "it" in Haitian Creole li =3D "yon" in Italian po =3D "in" in Croatian, French, Lituanian, & Serbian (Latin Script) po =3D "against" in Czech This text is a rewrite of the 1st paragraph of the Gilbert Adair translation, A Void, of Georges Perec's La Disparition: "Incurably insomniac, Anton Vowl turns on a light. According to his watch it's only 12.20. With a loud and languorous sigh Vowl sits up, stuffs a pillow at his back, draws his quilt up around his chin, picks up his whodunit and idly scans a paragraph or two; but, judging its plot impossibly difficult to follow in his condition, its vocabulary too whimsically multisyllabic for comfort, throws it away in disgust." Note that it contains a mystery regarding the semi-hidden nature of some of its formal properties & that it also doesn't contain the letter "e" - either in the use of Ou, Li & Po as its sole vocabulary OR in the words in its translation. As such, it uses the restriction of the original Perec work. 2ndly, a writer can rewrite any work only using these 3 words but w/o adhering to any other restriction. 3rdly, a writer can write a new work using only those 3 words. Following are 2 texts & their 1st generation translations. See the description of a possible reader role following them. OU Po PO, OU po li li po li li po po, ou ou po Ou/ou PO po, po ou ou po po ou po-po ou/ou li po po ou (Li Po po OU "OU" po Li Po po "po-po-po"), ou li po po ou ou li-po li (po po: po OU po ou-ou li ou po OU po po po li li). Translation: Organizational Unit In Operational Program, Operational Unit to gush to you what of what it in where whom in I/you Operational Program indicator of respect, the whole he comes either according to whether or opposite-yes either/or it by close whom (Li Po in Operational Unit in-exhange-for-"expenditure necessarily resulting from the treaty or from acts adopted in accordance therewith, compulsory expenditure" against Li Po in Operational Unit "in-exchange-for-according-to-at-the-rate-of"), or to you an indicator of respect to gush egg and whether-whether it (for in exchange for: to gush compulsory expenditure for girl-egg to you whom in exchange for compulsory expenditure according to all along to gush from a spout them at that place). Ou Ou Ou li li li, li li, po po. PO po po ou ou ou ou po li po ou po! Po ou, Ou Ou, ou, po ou, ou! Translation: Rotten Egg He comes to you at that place over there, that hillside, after sunset. Jump over pole and cloud or at the price of pox on your arse! For he comes, Rotten Egg, and, after he comes, WO! The reader can also play this game by trying to figure out wch of the specific formal possibilities has determined the result. EG: in the 2 examples above: Is either derived from a pre-existing text? Is either a 'new' work? The reader can become the writer by creating a rationale for their interpretation - such as the one presented after the example derived from Perec above. This can then be known as "Cure for Po, Li, Ou" or "Po Po Po, Li, Ou". Any readers making analytical guesses about the origins/translations of the above are welcome to submit them to tENTATIVELY, a cONVENIENCE @: anon@fyi.net in probable exchange for solutions &/or further problems as well as possible publication. Variations on the game are Po, &Li - wch are explained elsewhere. MANY THANKS TO THE Webster's Online Dictionary with Multilingual Thesaurus Translation =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html --0-1879108492-1261074926=:8576-- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 09:58:44 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: amy king Subject: Blizzard cancelled the day and new poem up: Comments: To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://www.vers= Blizzard cancelled the reading today and new poem up:=0A=0A http://www.vers= edaily.org/2009/stateofanation.shtml=0A=0A=0A Blizzard is a state of mind! = That's outside the body... =0A=0A"Pray don't talk to me about the weather, = Mr. Worthing. Whenever people talk to me about the weather, I always feel q= uite certain that they mean something else. And that makes me so nervous."-= Oscar Wilde, The Importance of Being Earnest, Act 1=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Origi= nal Message ----=0AFrom: amy king =0AWe'll save you f= rom the evil snowmen! Brave the flakes & come on over for an impromptu holi= day spectacular.=0A=0A=0A=0AElaine Equi / Bob Viscusi =0AAmy King / Doug Ho= lder =0A& Ana Bozicevic=0Awith music by Brant Lyon=0A=0A=0A=0Ahosted by Iri= s N. Schwartz=0A=0A=0ASunday, December 20, 2009=0ATime: 6:00pm - 8:00pm= =0A=0ACornelia Street Caf=E9=0A29 Cornelia St.=0A(between Bleecker & West 4= th Sts.)=0ANYC=0Awww.corneliastreetcafe.com =0A=0A=0A=0ADirections: All tra= ins to West 4th St. or # 1 train to Christopher St.=0ACover: $7 (includes o= ne house drink)=0A=0A=0A=0A_______=0A=0ANEW BOOK=0ASlaves to Do These Thing= s -- http://www.blazevox.org/bk-ak3.htm =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 19:05:42 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve russell Subject: Re: citation from list? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1567548866-1261105542=:878" --0-1567548866-1261105542=:878 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable & Orwell is famous for 1 comment, many comments, but ! in particular: "All = Art is Propaganda." The problem, THE PROBLEM with most poetry, and the reas= on it's become of little relevance in today's world is simply because most = poetry is THE PROPAGANDA of the self. We already have 8.7 hundred thousand = dopey self-help books on thousands of shelves in homes, libraries, and book= stores across America. & most poetry is exalted language of the SELF. Sure,= Whitman sang his famous Song of Myself, but his poems reached out into the= naked wilderness of American life in the late 19th century. Not everyone c= an be a Whitman, Ginsberg, Yeats, Neruda, but it seems that few poets consi= der the larger world. This has been my main complaint concerning the work o= f Ashberry. He goes about his business in the Great OUtside, but everything= is seen through this cyrptic prism, the Self, & it's as though his main th= eme is often failed ephiphany (sp?). The world seems to offer him some vague revelation, then withholds it. & some readers are forever charm= ed by this. I often find it annoying, although much of Ashbery is extremely= inventive, and fun to read. MEMEMEMEME. The great American theme. & so for= th/& so ON. At least Ashbery is inventive enough to give us the self as see= n from circus fun house mirrors. =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A___________________________= _____=0AFrom: David-Baptiste Chirot =0ATo: POETIC= S@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=0ASent: Wed, December 16, 2009 4:06:26 PM=0ASubject:= Re: citation from list?=0A=0Ai just learend i have a few moments here to s= end the addresses for the guantanamo articles i wrote--re the poems that is= --on line=0Aat my log there has been covergaeof the book a year before it c= ame out, until it was published, and the non-greeting the book received for= reasons discussed in the essays=0ADavid-Baptiste Chirot // Word For/Word: = A Journal of New Writing ...=0ARobert Pinsky, former Poet Laureate, while a= cknowledging the situation of poetry in a raw state of the Guantanamo poe= ms, also remarked: "No Mandelstams here ...www.wordforword.info/vol13/dbc.h= tmKAURAB Online :: A Bengali Poetry Webzine :: Translation Site=0AWith the = Guantanamo Poems, as Flagg Miller suggests in his excellent .... David Ba= ptiste Chirot is an amazing litterateur, artist, reader and critic. ...kaur= ab.tripod.com/english/books/guant=E2=80=A6=0A=0A=0Ai thnk also an issue tha= t is never discuyssed here is the concentration camp that is Gaza, the worl= d's largest ever prison, paid for with us money=0Asince the US openy suppor= ts Apartheid, isit not a reflection of the US values in re other opulations= around the world and in the USA itself where=0Anow, poet Obama, the Americ= an Indian Rezervations in the USA have the lowest living conditions of any = people except their partners at the bottom=3D=3Dthe Haitians, who of course= are not to find homes ionm US as are refuigees from Cuba for example--=0Ai= writing of art,m, poetry and my own methods, iu write of Finding the Foun= d--everyhwere unseen, unheard, untouched--all around us--"right before our = very eyes and right under our feet"=0A=0Athids Found one may extend to al t= his issues which like Gaza become so much a question of sub-human treatment= yet which are never mentioned ny our Great Leaders of Democracy and Rights= , as are not mentioned either the American Indians and so many others-=0At= his policay of NOT seeing NOT hearing NOT touching then is a question where= the arts and poetry converge with the issuesof human rights--=0Aif one ius= sient about the Unseen the UnREADS the Unwritten, al the sielnces that mou= nt and mount to deafen out al but the very greatest of speakers who only sa= y NO again--=0Ain this realm of silence there dwells also the silence of po= etry, the arts, a silence due to fear, a silence which will not confront th= e all too vivid criumes against humanity from Guantanamo to Gaza from the h= uge overflowing numberone prison suystem in the usa--number on in prision p= opulation--over two million--and leading the world also in percentage of po= ulation in prision--=0Athe prision is always Elsewhere--somehwere over the = Walls--so no one sees them--instead the walls as along Isreli highways are = painted to show bucolic pastoral views--=0Athat way the Walls Wall OUT--the= cmps of today--=0Aal paid for with the us dollar--=0Ai think that one wil = find that sielnce nbegins to eat away at the fabric of language, like a rot= ting woven rug which begins to splay and its threads to be tossed by the p= rison winds . . .=0Ahorror soriesof the tratmentsof the detaineesof any kin= d in the usa--the "Gitmos Across America" which grow like cancers by the da= y-=0Athe Frenc writer Vidal-Nacquet wrote a great book calling "Torture: th= e Canacer of Democracy" in analyzing its effects on France during the Alger= ian War oif Independence 1195201962=0A(Algeria isleading the "little nation= s" in the revolt at Copenhagen agsint the big polluters who have decided to= let the little countries pay for the cleanup of the mess they did not cont= ribute to--=0Athe question is not why arent tht activist poetires etc becua= se that is a term which is immediately confusing to peo-pe=0Athe real ques= tions at the heart of language is its disintgration, its approaching the Or= wellian frontiers in which the Peace Prize Speech becomes a justification f= or an ever expanding war--=0Anow a week after the Speech the President's Cr= ew announce the first drone attacks on a Pakistani city--with a population = of 850,000--=0Ain the situation one lives in, what becomes of dire importan= ce to sound melodramatic about it, what is important is what is happening t= o and with language--=0Athemore things are disapearedin klanguage themore t= hey will vanish in actuality-=0Athe more they are erased and chnaged in the= virtual realm, the more these palimsests will try to abolish peoples place= s things, ideas, images--=0A(i've written a number of essayson this topic i= ncluding at the MADAY journal site "Virtuality as the Transcendent in Revrs= e--the Deleting of persons for the sake of new Virtual Walls . . . =0Aon th= e worst American Indian rezervations for example, the only way for the Indi= ans to findout the information they need for health care, unless a worker d= rivesout into "remote distances" to deliver the info by hand-theonly way to= obtain this precious info is from the site for it on US Gov.com--=0Atoo ba= d for the Indians they don't have any computers!=0Atoo bad many have no ele= ctrcity either!=0Athisis how siencing "works"=0Aprovide a service incmpatib= le with the ability of the served so called to be served--=0Ain other words= , as always, it's ALL THE INDIANS' FAULT!=0Ayou see--one may be writing poe= try also for which there is no destination-no receiver--=0Aor one mabe deli= berately deprived of poetry--being "too remote" and all, you know--=0Awhat = exists in the actual worlkd becomes in face of the virtaul--a non-reality= =0Athe viortual may be used for its own forms of "ethnic cleansing" and "cl= ass cleasing"--"idea cleansing"--simply by vanihsing those things which do = not have a correspoancde inthe virtual worlds--=0Aand to make sure of their= non-intrustion, these actual things beings events=0Aone begins with the de= letions on line=0Aand finishes them off with the dletions in Real Time, Rea= l Space--=0Athis has already hapened in Rwanda, Burma, chunks of Palestine-= -parts of Iraq and Afghanistan--=0Athe new way of seeing is the target-eye-= -=0Aand hence surivie what there are of the unseen unheard untouched--=0Ath= el;onger one is excluded from the virtual the harder, the greater prisce on= e must pay, to enter into it--=0Awhat will happens when as Burroughs' wrote= --the reality studios are stormed?=0Athis boundary line of the studio--when= wil it be crossed and the actual erupt into the virtual?=0Aeveryday how ma= ny Disappeareds "appear" in themidst of populations? wlaking dead--shadows = imblazoned into Walls--=0Awhat happens to lang8age when it begins to realiz= e it must decide between a collusion with disapperance and language of a fe= w for a few--=0Aor wil language become like a bounty hunter in the sergio l= eone film:=0A"When life was not worth living, and death, too, had a price--= then the boounty hunters came."=0Athe bounty hunters amnswered the cal of t= ensof thosandsof dropped leafletsin afghansitan and iraq--turned into most = of the poets and prisioners of Guantanamo--=0Apoetry begins when one realiz= es the things poetry is supposed to be quiet about--=0Ait no longer wil shu= t up about-=0Ato crash the Walls of silence, invisiblity the literal waste = lands-the untoched-=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A> Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 1= 3:37:39 -0600=0A> From: rhstigge@GMAIL.COM=0A> Subject: Re: citation from l= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 06:57:07 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Alan Sondheim Subject: "What's in your wallet?"* MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed "What's in your wallet?"* http://www.alansondheim.org/top.jpg Thanks to James Morris who creates brilliant works on his laptop screen, and to the people on Cybermind, who, years ago, sent out images of their desktop screens as a kind of home-sharing. I'm hoping other people might show their screens as well at this point. Thanks, Alan * annoying U.S. ad for something or other. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 19:08:29 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: UbuWeb Subject: Fitterman and Place Discuss the Response to "Notes on Conceptualisms" Comments: cc: Conceptual Writing-Group , ubuweb@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In the DIY video, Vanessa Place and Robert Fitterman pirate the original eastcoast/westcoast by Robert Smithson and Nancy Holt to ponder the coastal reception of their book "Notes on Conceptualisms." http://ubu.com/film/fitterman_conceptualisms.html UbuWeb http://ubu.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 11:03:26 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Lou Rowan Subject: Golden Handcuffs Review #12 out MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Dear Colleagues, It's dedicated to Robin Blaser, David Bromige, and John = Manning, =20 with new writing by Eleanor Antin, Blaser, Ryan Boudinot, Bromige, =20 Laynie Browne, Sarah Campbell, Leah Candelaria-Tyler, Martha Cooley, =20 Rob Crawford, Jean Daive, Eduardo D'Anna, Brian Evenson, Alan Halsey, =20= Kenneth Irby, Robert Kelly, Hank Lazer, Daicia Maraini, Tom Massey, =20 Maria Negroni, George and Mary Oppen, Fran=E7oise Palleau-Papin, Paul =20= Pines, Tony Power, Philip Terry, James Tierney, Norman Weinstein, =20 plus art and photos by Andrea Aug=E9, David Farwell, Gilbert Garcin, =20 and John Manning. You can help us to persist by subscribing or advertising. Subs $20/=20 annum. (www.goldenhandcuffsreview.com) Please help. Thanks, Lou Lou Rowan lourowan@mac.com www.lourowan.com 1825 NE 58th St. Seattle, WA 98105 206-948-2077 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 11:27:50 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: FW: citation from list? In-Reply-To: <4B27071C.7060404@umn.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Maris and Eireene: Maria=2C this sounds like Stepen Vincent's tone--and cadence=2C his use of = discreet formalaties-- (all of these are compliments--) As you know Maria=2C i make what is most likely the oldest form of "copier = art"--rubbings=2C which i call "rubBEings" as i see BEings in them=2C all a= round-- Dear Eireene--your play sounds like life where i live--time travellers=2C (= myself included) several people speaiing to themslves all at one=2C people= tlaking at cross purposes=2C schizophrenics talking back to voices only th= ey can hear=2C auditory and visual hallucinations of persons coming down of= f of years of drug/alcohol abuse prompting aggresive or tragic or comic ou= tbursts- ghosts (that number of persons see and/or hear)--many many more--s= pontaneous preachers-spontaneous singers i work in the office two nights a= nd an afternoon a week and have the great delight of listening to it all--s= pontaneous reciter of his own poetry--a reciter of nursery rhymes--Bible re= aders proclaiming and thumping--atheists voiceferously replying- "noise poetry"--with now and then out of noise arising music=2C poetry emer= ging- one time=2C beofre i had gotten used to the cell phones everywhere abundant= =2C i was riding a late night bus aboard with three other charcters--one=2C= a yuppie=2C on an unseen phone of the ear plug-in type=2C one a man singin= g along to this cd player with head phone on and the third the man speaking= loudly to himself-- i suddenly realized i was the only one "there" --except that i was silent--= so acoustically invisible-- > Date: Mon=2C 14 Dec 2009 21:48:44 -0600 > From: damon001@UMN.EDU > Subject: citation from list? > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >=20 > Dear friends: > Back in 2006 or 2007=2C there was a discussion about outsider art on the= =20 > list=2C and someone wrote the following: >=20 > "Funny=2C how it ... makes me think of 14th century German ... iconic=20 > Christian paintings in devotion to and in celebration of various=20 > Biblical allegories. I remember a CAA annual conference in Boston in=20 > which the lecturer showed infra-red (?) slides of the under-painting=20 > (preliminary sketches) for various works. Instead of stiff depictions of= =20 > iconic allegorical figures=2C we were given a very naturalistic view of=20 > the models - men=2C women and children - drawn from the village around th= e=20 > school where the works were painted=2C definitely made to conform to and= =20 > please the strictures of the Church. Following the argument here=2C the=20 > 'outsider' art was actually secreted into the interior life of the=20 > 'inside' of the Church. I guess we might call these 'under paintings' a=20 > case of =91insider=92 art. Ironically it's taken 6 centuries to bring the= =20 > work into view. ... it's definitely of the material world=2C and not of=20 > allegory made. Somehow brings up the recollection of the story of=20 > prisoners in Quantanamo [sic] making poems on thin strips of the paper=20 > pealed back from paper cups - and passing those strips among each other.= =20 > Definitely 'insider' art by 'outsiders.'" >=20 > I thought it was Stephen Vincent=2C in response to a post by=20 > David-Baptiste Chirot=2C but I can't find it in the archives. Any ideas? > bests=2C md >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 19:08:16 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Poetry Project Subject: Events at The Poetry Project Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable We=B9re about to close the office for a week in order to experience various forms of holiday cheer before returning to host our New Year=B9s Day Marathon Reading (scroll down for details). It=B9s our most important fundraising even= t of the year so we hope to see you here! In the meantime, check out what our friends are doing: Poetry Project artist-in-residence Erica Wessmann has a new installation on view daily in the East Village. Changing Title is a site-specific sculpture exhibited at Heathers Project Space, 506 E. 13th St. between Avenues A & B. Free and open to the public through January 27, viewing hours are Sun =AD Tues, 5pm-2am; Wed, 1pm =AD 2am; Thurs =AD Sat, 3pm =AD 4am. Please visit http://www.artcat.com/exhibits/10606 for more details and an image! Films of Alfred Leslie at Anthology Film Archives, Fri, Dec 18 8pm Leslie is a true radical and an artist=B9s artist. This program of shorts includes several films including 2 films of special interest to the Poetry Project community: SONGS OF THE BLUE-FOOTED BOOBIES: Music videos for hipsters! In these short collages, three of Frank O=B9Hara=B9s poems meet their match with Leslie superimposing cabaret music and film clips and EINSTEIN=B9S SECRET: Leslie layers a visual track of drawings and frames from his graphi= c novella ATTACKED BY THE HEART with a text track of three poems by Frank O=B9Hara streamed as subtitles. Anthology is at 32 Second Ave. at 2nd St; $9 general; http://www.anthologyfilmarchives.org 36th Annual New Year=B9s Day Marathon Benefit Reading Friday January 1, 2010 2:00 pm - ? Poets and performers this year include: Ammiel Alcalay, Bruce Andrews & Sally Silvers, Penny Arcade, Arthur=B9s Landing, Ari Banias, Jim Behrle, Charles Bernstein, Anselm Berrigan, Edmund Berrigan, Ana Bozicevic, Donna Brook, Michael Brownstein, Franklin Bruno, Tyler Burba, Peter Bushyeager, Reuben Butchart, Callers, Steve Cannon, Yoshiko Chuma, Church Of Betty, Michael Cirelli, Todd Colby, John Coletti, CAConrad, Cori Copp, Brenda Coultas, Geoffrey Cruickshank-Hagenbuckle, M=F3nica de la Torre, Mina Pam Dick, Steve Dalachinsky, LaTasha N. Nevada Diggs, Maggie Dubris, Douglas Dunn, Marcella Durand, Steve Earle, Will Edmiston, Joe Elliot, Christine Elmo, Laura Elrick, Maggie Estep, Avram Fefer, Jess Fiorini, Corrine Fitzpatrick, Foamola, Tonya Foster, David Freeman, Ed Friedman, Greg Fuchs, Joanna Fuhrman, Cliff Fyman, Kelly Ginger, Pepi Ginsberg, John Giorno, Philip Glass, John Godfrey, Toby Goodshank, Nada Gordon & Gary Sullivan, Stephanie Gray, Tim Griffin, Miguel Gutierrez, John S. Hall, Diana Hamilton= , Janet Hamill, Robert Hershon, Tony Hoffman, Eddie Hopely, Lisa Jarnot, Paol= o Javier, Patricia Spears Jones, Pierre Joris, Adeena Karasick, Erica Kaufman= , Lenny Kaye, John Kelly, Aaron Kiely, David Kirschenbaum, Bill Kushner & Merle Lister, Susan Landers, Joan Larkin, Dorothea Lasky, Deniz=E9 Lauture, Joel Lewis, Brendan Lorber, Michael Lydon, Kim Lyons, Dan Machlin & Serena Jost, Judith Malina, Filip Marinovich, Chris Martin, Gillian McCain, Legs McNeil, Tracey McTague, Taylor Mead, Jonas Mekas, Sharon Mesmer, David Mills, Rebecca Moore, Tracie Morris, Will Morris, Eileen Myles, Jess Mynes, Elinor Nauen, Murat Nemat-Nejat, Jim Neu, Geoffrey Olsen, Dael Orlandersmith, Richard O=B9Russa, Eugene Ostashevsky, Yuko Otomo, Gary Parrish, Simon Pettet, Nicole Peyrafitte & Miles Joris-Peyrafitte, Genesis Breyer P-Orridge, Kristin Prevallet, Brett Price, Arlo Quint, Elizabeth Reddin, Evelyn Reilly, Citizen Reno, Renato Rosaldo, Bob Rosenthal, Dougla= s Rothschild, Tom Savage, Michael Scharf, David Shapiro, Frank Sherlock, Elliott Sharp, Nathaniel Siegel, Christopher Stackhouse, Stacy Szymaszek, Anne Tardos, Susie Timmons, Edwin Torres, Rodrigo Toscano=B9s Collapsible Poetics Theater, Tony Towle, David Vogen, Nicole Wallace, Lewis Warsh, Phyllis Wat, Karen Weiser, Simone White, Dustin Williamson, Emily XYZ, Don Yorty, Rachel Zolf, Magdalena Zurawski & more t.b.a. This event will be held in the Sanctuary. General admission $18, Students & Seniors $15, Members $10. Become a Poetry Project Member! http://poetryproject.org/become-a-member Calendar: http://www.poetryproject.org/program-calendar The Poetry Project is located at St. Mark's Church-in-the-Bowery 131 East 10th Street at Second Avenue New York City 10003 Trains: 6, F, N, R, and L. info@poetryproject.org www.poetryproject.org Admission is $8, $7 for students/seniors and $5 for members (though now those who take out a membership at $95 or higher will get in FREE to all regular readings). We are wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. For more info call 212-674-0910. If you=B9d like to be unsubscribed from this mailing list, please drop a line at info@poetryproject.org. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 13:06:48 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Adam Fieled Subject: Upstairs at Duroc: Call for Submissions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable CALL FOR SUBMISSIONS! =C2=A0 The Paris literary journal Upstairs at Duroc seeks submissions for its Issu= e # 12.=C2=A0 We publish English language poetry, fiction, creative nonfict= ion and translations.=C2=A0 We welcome innovative forms, prose poems and fl= ash fiction. Submit no more than 5 poems, or two prose pieces not exceeding= 2000 words each.=C2=A0 Include cover sheet with name, address, phone numbe= r, email address, word count for prose, and a short Bio.=C2=A0 Send snail m= ail submissions to the WICE office.=C2=A0 Send email submissions to wice@wi= ce-paris.org with =E2=80=9CUpstairs at Duroc Submission=E2=80=9D in the sub= ject line.=C2=A0 Copies of Upstairs at Duroc can be obtained at our reading= s or at the WICE office (7 cit=C3=A9 Falgui=C3=A8re, 75015 Paris, France.= =C2=A0 Open Mon-Tues-Thurs-Fri 10 AM to 3 PM).=C2=A0 For samples of publish= ed work, see our Web page at www.wice-paris.org.=C2=A0 We prefer email subm= issions.=C2=A0 Deadline: January 31, 2010. =C2=A0 Barbara Beck, Paris editor of Upstairs at Duroc, asked me to pass this alon= g. Happy Holidays, Ad =C2=A0 =C2=A0=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 08:40:22 -1000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Susan Webster Schultz Subject: Tinfish Editor's Blog: Recent Posts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fill in the blanks! Recent posts from the editor of Tinfish on adoption lit & Harvey Hix, Tyrone Williams, Fred Wah, and of course a pre-publication sale on fantastic new titles by Kaia Sand and Lyz Soto. We could use the cash to cover printing costs, and you could use the books for less mercentary reasons. http://tinfisheditor.blogspot.com http://tinfishpress.com * "Nothing attested": H.L. Hix's _Incident Light_ . . . * M.I.A. reading series & harvest time * Blogging (with) Tyrone Williams, _On Spec . . . * Tinfish Pre-Publication Sale (Please help us to co... * "The colour of a relational utterance": Fred Wah a... aloha, Susan M. Schultz Editor ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 06:56:59 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve russell Subject: rocking in PURGATORY with Raul Zurita MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii the post Neruda speaks: from the forward by C.D. Wright: From the beginning to the end of the Pinochet regime, Zurita's actions, private and public, have ranged from the horrible to the sublime. He has performed terrible acts of self-mutilation, branding his face and burning his eyes with ammonia, but he has also inscribed the sky and the desert with his poetry. On June 2, 1982, his poem "La vida nueva," which opens Anteparaiso, appeared in Spanish above New York City, an act that, at that time, would have been impossible in Chile: MI DIOS ES HAMBRE MY GOD IS HUNGER .... (skipping her/poet/hell...) (BACK TO CDWRIGHT) And in the Atacama Desert the last four words of the third volume in Zurita's trilogy, "La vida nueva," have been bulldozed into the earth, stretch- ing almost two miles: ni pena ni miedo neither pain nor fear (back to poet_in_hell: Zurita ... no need for Chrito when Zurita gives the earth the new Chile ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 11:37:11 +0530 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve dalachinsky Subject: Re: technique questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit both have to with breath yet not depends on the mind/heart as it writes sometimes just a pictorial device oops soor yhate the word device On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 09:40:16 -0600 Mary Jo Malo writes: > Which do you consider a more effective simple pause: word spacing or > line break? > Are these different from the concept of breath? > > Mary Jo > -- > http://thisshiningwound.blogspot.com/ > http://apophisdeconstructingabsurdity.blogspot.com/ > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 13:34:12 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Adam Katz Subject: Re: technique questions In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Elizabeth, yes, I was thinking after my last post that the thing about misplaced commas that pauses me is their variance with my (rather intransigent) expectations; that if this were to become a standard convention, the way to achieve pause would be to break, in turn, this codified way of breaking conventions. So perhaps the answer to the questio= n is that pause, ultimately, is achieved by a constant variance with ways of pausing that have been established both within and outside one's own work; then, a variance with the pattern by which one varies, etc. Tho I think this all smacks of "make it new," which at least some critics I've read have complained is no longer itself a new imperative and leads to a superficially novel text. I think the original sense of "For in that sleep of death what dreams may come When we have shuffled off this mortal coil Must give us pause" (=85"Thus conscience does make cowards of us all And thus the native hue of resolution Is sicklied over with the pale cast of thought And enterprises o= f great pith and moment With this regard their currents turn awry") is that we are given-pause by a major idea - not by a shape or a 'device' (steve), but by a concept so powerful that we can no longer proceed with ou= r designs, we must reevaluate everything, maybe even the very notion of cavaliering forward. no stops but in ideas! a On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 6:34 PM, Elizabeth Switaj wrote: > Adam, > > If something makes you stop, hesitate, and go backwards, that would seem = to > be a bit more than a simple pause, wouldn't it? (If anyone's being too > literal here, it's me.) > > Then again, if you use the same symbol in the same idiosyncratic way > repeatedly throughout a long poem or collection, the reader will get used > to > it, and the pause will come to be simple or disappear entirely. (I'm basi= ng > this on my own experience reading The Descent of Alette with all its > quotation marks.) I think the key, then, is not to select one way of > injecting a pause as the best but rather to be aware of range of options > that function differently. Anything, not just commas; placed where; you > don't: expect; them can > create > the more complex sort of pause. > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 13:50:49 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve russell Subject: Re: Blizzard cancelled the day and new poem up: In-Reply-To: <825456.24775.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ____________________= winter: another way of saying NOT SUBTLE=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A____________________= ____________=0AFrom: amy king =0ATo: POETICS@LISTSERV= .BUFFALO.EDU=0ASent: Sun, December 20, 2009 9:58:44 AM=0ASubject: Blizzard = cancelled the day and new poem up:=0A=0Ahttp://www.vers=0ABlizzard cancelle= d the reading today and new poem up:=0A=0Ahttp://www.versedaily.org/2009/st= ateofanation.shtml=0A=0A=0ABlizzard is a state of mind! That's outside the = body... =0A=0A"Pray don't talk to me about the weather, Mr. Worthing. Whene= ver people talk to me about the weather, I always feel quite certain that t= hey mean something else. And that makes me so nervous."- Oscar Wilde, The I= mportance of Being Earnest, Act 1=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0A= From: amy king =0AWe'll save you from the evil snowme= n! Brave the flakes & come on over for an impromptu holiday spectacular.=0A= =0A=0A=0AElaine Equi / Bob Viscusi =0AAmy King / Doug Holder =0A& Ana Bozic= evic=0Awith music by Brant Lyon=0A=0A=0A=0Ahosted by Iris N. Schwartz=0A=0A= =0ASunday, December 20, 2009=0ATime: 6:00pm - 8:00pm=0A=0ACornelia Street= Caf=E9=0A29 Cornelia St.=0A(between Bleecker & West 4th Sts.)=0ANYC=0Awww.= corneliastreetcafe.com =0A=0A=0A=0ADirections: All trains to West 4th St. o= r # 1 train to Christopher St.=0ACover: $7 (includes one house drink)=0A=0A= =0A=0A_______=0A=0ANEW BOOK=0ASlaves to Do These Things -- http://www.blaze= vox.org/bk-ak3.htm =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0AThe Poeti= cs List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/un= sub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 15:51:57 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Art games In-Reply-To: <5CF1D5C1E817430491E618F7AF2CD93E@OwnerPC> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Jim, I have listened to your Lopes interview and read your review of his book. I want to unpack -or react to- one short passage from your review: "What separates computers from other machines is programmability. Programmability is what gives computers their radical flexibility, as machines. Flexibility to the point that there is no proof, and probably never will be, that there exist thought processes of which humans are capable and computers are not. Which is to say that programmability provide= s flexibility, very likely, to the point of the dynamic fluidity of thought. = " ""What separates computers from other machines is programmability. Programmability is what gives computers their radical flexibility, as machines." What happens to this assertion if you replace the word "programmability" with "virtuality?" After all, the latter is the direct corollary of the former. One has a conceptual edifice which may disappear like smoke at a moment's notice; what one has then is -not fragments, nor relics- but a "program" which may be constant or have its own mysterious cycle of half-lives. Is this erosion in "substance" peculiar only to computers -the defining quality of a computer- or is it a reflection of a broader shift in one's perception of reality. The atom theory of substance is progressively split into smaller particles -quarks (as in quacks), leptons (as in Lipton)= , bosons (as in bisons), neutrinos, muons, tauans, and their antis, etc., etc= . - so that we have a conceptual reality can only be grasped by computers, by the grasp of its algorithms.- The string theory has the feel and image structure of a fairy tale, with its secret passages, trap doors, strange animals, mazes, or of the addictive games in a computer? And, finally, the grand daddy of this kind of language universe, Alice's descent into the Wonderland (after all, Alice cries "it's all "virtual"). Despite all its interconnectedness and "universality," the computer, it seems to me, is a profoundly subjective, even solipsistic medium, continuously built on, reinforced by one's wishes -fulfillments- ("choices) -a quality touted as one of its main virtues but in actuality is one of its most subversive qualities, a Trojan horse against human freedom. Despite its ocean of "interconnectivity," isn't this why our world consists of archipelagos of isolation (heard by no one) and narcissism (wanting to hear no one) fightin= g each other? If Mr. Lopes wants to develop a theory of computer art, instead of creating dainty little defintions fitting together like a Chinese puzzle, he should tackle these broader issues. "Flexibility to the point that there is no proof, and probably never will be, that there exist thought processes of which humans are capable and computers are not. Which is to say that programmability provides flexibility, very likely, to the point of the dynamic fluidity of thought." If one assumes, as I think you indirectly are doing, that there is no break between "human" thought and "computer/machine" thought, that they represent a continuum -that machines also have their "spiritual lives"- then one must analyze the "otherness," nature of human thought as it "passes"/ travels into the algorthmic/computer universe/space. It is this absence of a confrontation with this "otherness" which I find most frustrating in the nearly Utopian protestations of the computer/digital art enthusiasts. I fin= d in them a touch of sentimentality. Mr. Lopes finds in computer games the essence of computer art. My guess is that there is a good deal of truth in that. But then then he sees those games similar to pop entertainment. The truly good ones are much more akin to fairy tales, full of "real" danger, threat and warnings. I would like to salute David Chirot's posts (and recommend his work on line= ) which carry on similar arguments to mine from a different perspective. Ciao, Murat On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 5:24 AM, Jim Andrews wrote: > Here's an essay I wrote recently called Art, Games and Play: > http://www.ciac.ca/magazine/perspective.htm > > The essay was commissioned by the Centre for International Contemporary A= rt > in Montr=E9al (CIAC). They do various things which include publishing an > online magazine concerned with "cyberculture, art and literature". The is= sue > this essay is in is about art games. > > It also includes a review I wrote ( > http://www.ciac.ca/magazine/compterendu.htm ) on A Philosophy of Computer > Art by Dominic McIver Lopes, and a video interview with him ( > http://www.ciac.ca/magazine/entrevue.htm ) I did a few months ago. Lopes'= s > book is the first one I know of by a philosopher who develops a philosoph= y > of art in which the computer is crucial as medium. It's kind of a crucial > book to thinking about such art, I think. It makes some basic distinction= s > and definitions that need to be made. It certainly isn't the last word on > the matter, but it's a good start. > > The reason the CIAC published the review and interview with Lopes is > because Lopes's philosophy of computer art, which stresses the importance= of > interactivity, looks at computer games as part of computer art. > > This issue of the CIAC's online magazine is at http://www.ciac.ca/magazin= e > > ja > http://vispo.com > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 21:51:45 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: "Kimmelman, Burt" Subject: New Book by Burt Kimmelman MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Burt Kimmelman's new book of poems, As If Free (Talisman House, Publishers)= , is now available from Amazon and SPD / Small Press Distribution (see link= s below). About As If Free: "Make no mistake about it: Burt Kimmelman appears here - & not for the firs= t time - as a successor to the lineage of William Carlos Williams & George = Oppen (to name but two), no less so for being a master of that lineage worn= proudly. The sense of number in his writing - particle by particle & brea= th by breath - & the attention that he gives to other particulars - the lit= tlest words & the small moments through which we live - are of a piece. In= this there is nothing minor or modest, although it might appear to be just= that, but a strict & powerful accounting, leaving me - for one - filled wi= th admiration & hooked on every word." - Jerome Rothenberg About Burt Kimmelman's previous books of poetry: "Somehow achieves a rare purity. Few contemporary poets so gracefully demon= strate classic notions of what the practice of poetry must be: Kimmelman's = work is carefully wrought, with concision, focus, and the rhythm of musical= composition. . . .." - Madeline Tiger, Jacket magazine "Burt Kimmelman's poems flourish as they pivot from a repertoire of reitera= ted subjects-works of art, natural landscapes, family, the animal world-to = a transfiguring notion of their properties and possibilities. For over twen= ty-five years, this practice has produced dynamic patterns of insight, patt= erns comprised of recurring figures and forms which nevertheless shift in t= heir relations to his poetic witness." - John Curley, Talisman: A Journal of Contemporary Poetry and Poetics "[The poems'] consistent occasions reinforce each other. We find the arts r= estate the questions we have been asking and the ways they clean and stretc= h our questions reward us more than answers would." - William Bronk "As quiet an experience as anyone could wish for." - Cid Corman "This is a rare evocation of a luminous place indeed-the wonder of this wor= ld in itself." - Robert Creeley "In Burt Kimmelman's poems, form calls deeply to form, as though the works = of art, the paintings and sculptures of the titles, lifted one to the very = brim of language where one could speak, not museum notes, but of a life cau= ght whole." - Michael Heller ". . . artful, fastidious, learned . . . I am delighted by so much feeling = for style." - Alfred Kazin ". . . Kimmelman strives for and often attains 'the simple / lettering stat= ing / the facts'-his own words." - Samuel Menashe "Burt Kimmelman is a poet who obviously admires the clarity of classical Ch= inese poetry and strives for it in his tight syllabics and in his shifting = images of light and dark. In doing so, he finds what is luminously transcen= dent in the routines of everyday life." - Harvey Shapiro "[Burt Kimmelman's] poems evince a quality infrequently encountered in cont= emporary American poetry: modesty, an attentive and forthright modesty. . .= . . Modesty in an age of irony is infrequent, rare, i.e., valuable, i.e., = worth our own best attention. These poems are "worth it." - John Taggart Link to As If Free at Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/As-If-Free-Burt-Kimmelman/dp/1584980699/ref=3Dsr_1_1?= ie=3DUTF8&s=3Dbooks&qid=3D1261162367&sr=3D1-1 Link to As If Free at SPD / Small Press Distribution: http://www.spdbooks.org/Producte/9781584980698/as-if-free.aspx?rf=3D1 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 21:27:46 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Laura Wetherington Subject: Announcing issue 6 of textsound journal Comments: To: editors@textsound.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Reverberations of radio shows, sound cut-ups, a mouthful of metal, and (that's right) cats make up just a few of the themes in this month's installation of textsound. William R. Howe demonstrates how a broken typewriter can turn out great work, Lindsay Cuff layers sound like she's in a water-echo-chamber, and Kyle Booten gives us one of the world's most delightful sounds: a child's laughter. Rodrigo Toscano, Lindsay Cuff, Dale Sherrard, Kyle Booten, William R. Howe, Best Friends Forever, Brian Ang, and Adrian Moens are all inside these cyber-walls. Pull up a chair and make yourself at home at www.textsound.org. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 08:18:11 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Aldon Nielsen Subject: Reading in Philadelphia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable *Time: *Sunday, December 27, 2009 5:30 p.m.; This event will be followed by the GLQ Caucus' conference reception @7 p.m.* Location: *Giovanni's Room, 12th and Pine* Title of Event: Voluptuous Spirits: A Reading and Dialogue with poet, Peter Covino and nonfiction writer, Mary Cappello ** In the days before the year turns, come out to witness two voices celebrate= d for their beauty, irreverence, and capaciousness.* Mary Cappello is the author of *Night Bloom* (Beacon Press), and the *Los AngelesTimes* bestselling book-length essay on =93awkwardness,=94 *Awkward:= A Detour* (Bellevue Literary Press). *Called Back: My Reply to Cancer, My Return to Life*, is just out from Alyson Books and is excerpted in *The* *Georgia Review* and *Seattle Review*. *Swallow:* *Foreign Bodies, Their Ingestion, Inspiration and Extraction in the Age of Chevalier Jackson*, based on the collection of swallowed objects in Philadelphia=92s Mutter Museum, will app= ear from The New Press in Fall 2010. You can hear Cappello discuss *Called Back* with modernist scholar and journalists, Regina Marlar, with Julie Bolcer, on * www.shewired.com* , and with Wisconsin Public Radio host of "Here on Earth," Jean Fereca, here: * http://www.wpr.org/hereonearth/archive_091116k.cfm * Peter Covino is an Assistant Professor of English and Creative Writing at the University of Rhode Island. He's the winner of the 2007 PEN America/Osterweil Award for emerging poets and the author of *Cut Off the Ears of Winter*, New Issues (2005), and the chapbook *Straight Boyfriend* (2001), winner of the Frank O'Hara Poetry Prize. He=92s currently co-editing an anthology on Italian American Literature and Culture for Bordighera Press, CUNY. Recent poems have appeared or are forthcoming in *Cimarron Review*, *Colorado Review*, *Gulf Coast*, *Interim*, *The Paris Review*, *The Yale Review*, and *Quarterly West*, among others. He's one of the founding editors of *Ba= rrow Street*. --=20 Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University University Park, PA 16802-6200 aln10@psu.edu sailing the blogosphere at http://heatstrings.blogspot.com "kindling his mind (more than his mind will kindle)" --William Carlos Williams, early adopter =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 19:27:14 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: William Slaughter Subject: Notice: Mudlark MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed New and On View: Mudlark Flash No. 52 (2009) Bee Fugue | Poem by Rebecca Foust | Images by Lorna Stevens Bee Fugue is from God, Seed, a full length book collaboration between poet Rebecca Foust and artist Lorna Stevens that will be published in 2010 by Tebot Bach. Foust's book, All That Gorgeous, Pitiless Song, recently won the Many Mountains Moving Book Award and will be released in April 2010. Her chapbooks, Mom's Canoe and Dark Card, won the Robert Phillips Prizes in 2007 and 2008. Lorna Stevens received her MFA in Sculpture from Columbia University. She exhibits widely in galleries and public spaces. Her work has been reviewed in The Boston Globe, The San Francisco Chronicle, The Marin Independent Journal and Artweek and has been acquired by the Brooklyn Museum, the New York Public Library and the di Rosa Preserve in Napa, CA. Spread the word. Far and wide, William Slaughter MUDLARK An Electronic Journal of Poetry & Poetics Never in and never out of print... E-mail: mudlark@unf.edu URL: http://www.unf.edu/mudlark ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 16:46:05 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: Art games In-Reply-To: <1dec21ae0912181251t71b1b7c8q8f36ad76f8bf8b43@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 'virtuality' doesn't necessarily have anything to do with computers. we all have our virtual worlds inside our heads and have had for a very long time. so what happens to the assertion, if you replace the word "programmability" with "virtuality" is you have an assertion that is false, murat. lopes doesn't find the "essence of computer art in computer games". he's a trained philosopher, so the word 'essence' is one he would use carefully. you are making a lot of assumptions about his work and about what i think, and you're generally quite far off base with them. he thinks of computer games as instances of or examples of computer art. his definition of computer art, as i mention in the review at http://www.ciac.ca/magazine/compterendu.htm , is "An item is a computer art work just in case (1) it's art, (2) it's run on a computer, (3) it's interactive, and (4) it's interactive because it's run on a computer" (p. 27) so it's a theory of interactive computer art. he's trying to get at the important characteristics of art in which the computer is crucial as medium. it isn't a book about art that happens to be digital but could as well appear in print or whatever. there are works, such as harold cohen's aaron, which lopes discusses in his book, that are not interactive but actually are works of computer art. so lopes's definition of computer art is too narrrow to include all works of computer art. but it's a very good book nonetheless because a clear philosophy of interactive computer art is valuable. it *is* a theory of a type of computer art, not a theory of work that isn't necessarily computer art. to broaden the definition of 'computer art' to include work such as cohen's aaron, one needs to look at the role of programming in computer art, because programmability (not virtuality) is what distinguishes computers from other machines. You say "If one assumes, as I think you indirectly are doing, that there is no break between "human" thought and "computer/machine" thought, that they represent a continuum -that machines also have their "spiritual lives"- then one must analyze the "otherness," nature of human thought as it "passes"/ travels into the algorthmic/computer universe/space." I've never met a spirtual machine. Except if you call works of art 'spiritual'. I don't expect to in my lifetime meet a 'spiritual machine'. We have been evolving on this planet for 2.5 billion years and the universe itself is apparently only about 15 billion years old. So we've been evolving over a significant portion of the entire time of the universe's existence. Computers have a long way to go, even if their 'evolution' is much faster than ours. But we can think of the current state as holding all the conditions for the development of 'thought' in computers. They can make decisions. They can re-write their own code. They can have 'senses'. They can interpret the information from their 'senses'. They can construct a world view. They are language machines. And there is no proof, and probably never will be, that there exist thought processes of which humans are capable and computers are not. Machine intelligence would undoubtedly be quite different from human intelligence because the contexts of our existences are quite different. We have biological bodies and have evolved in ways quite different from how computers 'evolve'. I don't see what is "utopian" about this view, or distopian, for that matter. I never said they were going to make everything all better, and neither does Lopes. What he does say, and I agree with, is that computer art is a new form of art. By that I don't mean art that happens to be digital but could as well appear in print or whatever, but art in which the computer is crucial as medium. This doesn't make it better than other forms of art. It's different. It has what many people feel are exciting possibilities both by virtue of its being relatively unexplored and also by virtue of the radical possibilities computers offer. I'm happy to see a book written by a philosopher about computer art. It's quite a different sort of book than the other ones I've read about 'digital art', 'internet art', 'digital poetry', and so on. He isn't looking for the social or literary (etc) significance of computer art. He's just looking to describe what it is. Which is valuable. Just the basics. Just the fundamentals. There is so much anxiety, wild speculation, ranting and raving about computers and, to a lesser extent, computer art in society. A book like this, which just looks at what it is in a basic, clear way is valuable in such a situation. ja http://vispo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Murat Nemet-Nejat" To: Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 12:51 PM Subject: Re: Art games Dear Jim, I have listened to your Lopes interview and read your review of his book. I want to unpack -or react to- one short passage from your review: "What separates computers from other machines is programmability. Programmability is what gives computers their radical flexibility, as machines. Flexibility to the point that there is no proof, and probably never will be, that there exist thought processes of which humans are capable and computers are not. Which is to say that programmability provides flexibility, very likely, to the point of the dynamic fluidity of thought. " ""What separates computers from other machines is programmability. Programmability is what gives computers their radical flexibility, as machines." What happens to this assertion if you replace the word "programmability" with "virtuality?" After all, the latter is the direct corollary of the former. One has a conceptual edifice which may disappear like smoke at a moment's notice; what one has then is -not fragments, nor relics- but a "program" which may be constant or have its own mysterious cycle of half-lives. Is this erosion in "substance" peculiar only to computers -the defining quality of a computer- or is it a reflection of a broader shift in one's perception of reality. The atom theory of substance is progressively split into smaller particles -quarks (as in quacks), leptons (as in Lipton), bosons (as in bisons), neutrinos, muons, tauans, and their antis, etc., etc. - so that we have a conceptual reality can only be grasped by computers, by the grasp of its algorithms.- The string theory has the feel and image structure of a fairy tale, with its secret passages, trap doors, strange animals, mazes, or of the addictive games in a computer? And, finally, the grand daddy of this kind of language universe, Alice's descent into the Wonderland (after all, Alice cries "it's all "virtual"). Despite all its interconnectedness and "universality," the computer, it seems to me, is a profoundly subjective, even solipsistic medium, continuously built on, reinforced by one's wishes -fulfillments- ("choices) -a quality touted as one of its main virtues but in actuality is one of its most subversive qualities, a Trojan horse against human freedom. Despite its ocean of "interconnectivity," isn't this why our world consists of archipelagos of isolation (heard by no one) and narcissism (wanting to hear no one) fighting each other? If Mr. Lopes wants to develop a theory of computer art, instead of creating dainty little defintions fitting together like a Chinese puzzle, he should tackle these broader issues. "Flexibility to the point that there is no proof, and probably never will be, that there exist thought processes of which humans are capable and computers are not. Which is to say that programmability provides flexibility, very likely, to the point of the dynamic fluidity of thought." If one assumes, as I think you indirectly are doing, that there is no break between "human" thought and "computer/machine" thought, that they represent a continuum -that machines also have their "spiritual lives"- then one must analyze the "otherness," nature of human thought as it "passes"/ travels into the algorthmic/computer universe/space. It is this absence of a confrontation with this "otherness" which I find most frustrating in the nearly Utopian protestations of the computer/digital art enthusiasts. I find in them a touch of sentimentality. Mr. Lopes finds in computer games the essence of computer art. My guess is that there is a good deal of truth in that. But then then he sees those games similar to pop entertainment. The truly good ones are much more akin to fairy tales, full of "real" danger, threat and warnings. I would like to salute David Chirot's posts (and recommend his work on line) which carry on similar arguments to mine from a different perspective. Ciao, Murat ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 22:54:06 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Obododimma Oha Subject: Homeward Bound Comments: To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" Comments: cc: otu_umunna@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "There is always a pull towards home =96 that location that we often imagin= e as our own, that we often think is where our gods and goddesses reside and from where they preside over our affairs, that location where we always hav= e that feeling that we belong, where our umbilical cords were buried at the foot of some palm tree. The cord, we have always believed, connects us eternally to the Motherland, to whom we will always return, for our ancestors insisted and inscribed in our hearts the creed that the kinsperson=92s head must never get lost in a foreign land." More from "Homeward Bound ": http://234next.com/csp/cms/sites/Next/Opinion/Editorial/5500129-182/story.c= sp --=20 Obododimma Oha http://udude.wordpress.com/ Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & Fellow, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604; +234 808 264 8060. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 19:17:48 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: "Patrick F. Durgin" Subject: Previews & Supplements: Pedro Pietri's THE MASSES ARE ASSES MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit New in the continuing series of previews (of) & supplements (to) the forthcoming Kenning Anthology of Poets Theater: 1945-1985, edited by Kevin Killian and David Brazil, a few words on one play omitted from the book, Pedro Pietri's THE MASSES ARE ASSES: http://www.kenningeditions.com/?p=152 Other posts in the series: on Jack Spicer, Steve Benson, and Fiona Templeton: see www.kenningeditions.com You can preorder the anthology by subscription, through direct mailorder or by credit card, via the website. The book will be released in mid-January and launched in late January (San Francisco) and early April (New York City); details on these events very soon! With new interest in poetry as a performative art, and with prewar experiments much in mind, the young poets of postwar America infused the stage with the rhythms and shocks of their poetry. From the multidisciplinary nexus of Black Mountain, to the Harvard-based Cambridge Poets Theater, to the West Coast Beats and San Francisco Renaissance, these energies manifested themselves all at once, and through the decades have continued to grow and mutate, innovating a form of writing that defies boundaries of genre. THE KENNING ANTHOLOGY OF POETS THEATER: 1945-1985 documents the emergence, growth, and varied fortunes of the form over decades of American literary history, with a focus on key regional movements. The largest and most comprehensive anthology of its kind yet assembled, the volume collects classics of poets theater as well as rarities long out of print and texts from unpublished manuscripts and archives. It will be an indispensable reference for students of postwar American poetry and avant-garde theater. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 12:22:14 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jeffrey Side Subject: Poems by Kelley White at The Argotist Online Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Poems by Kelley White at The Argotist Online: http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/White%20poems.htm =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 14:22:34 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: William Allegrezza Subject: poems dedicated to charles bernstein MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I'm looking for poems dedicated to or about Charles Bernstein for a new book about his work. Feel free to send me the poem or point me toward a link. Bill Allegrezza wallegrezza@gmail.com p.s. If you haven't written such a poem yet but think you could, just send me an e-mail to let me know you are interested in writing one. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 09:22:31 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Eric Elshtain Subject: Holiday Chapbook MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Celebrate or be Grinchy with Chapbook #67 http://www.beardofbees.com/salerno.html Best, Eric Elshtain Editor Beard of Bees Press http://www.beardofbees.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 17:25:13 +1100 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Chris Jones Subject: Re: Art games In-Reply-To: <5339AD3C3F814864AD2D85639CD8B440@OwnerPC> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, 2009-12-21 at 16:46 -0800, Jim Andrews wrote: > 'virtuality' doesn't necessarily have anything to do with computers. > we all > have our virtual worlds inside our heads and have had for a very long > time. I have a growing interest in Liz Grosz's writings on space and art which also seems to offer a similar way of thinking. I am concerned that media arts becomes defined by the categories of technology, but this may be something else. Architecture from the Outside: Essays on Virtual and Real Space. is the book I am thinking of, but have yet to read. Best wishes, Chris Jones. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 15:29:44 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Micah Robbins Subject: EMBANKMENTS: Richard Owens -- New from Interbirth Books Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" We are pleased to announce our latest title: EMBANKMENTS by Richard Owens= . Seventy-five books (twenty-six of which are lettered A through Z) were designed, printed, assembled, and hand bound 100% in-house by Micah Robbi= ns and Clifton Riley at Interbirth Books. The stitch is a buttonhole. The co= ver is an original screen / litho print.=20 43 pages -- 5 1/16 in x 7 3/8 in. -- $15 (free shipping in the US) Please take a moment to visit www.interbirthbooks.org to learn more about= this fine new book. Micah Robbins Editor, Interbirth Books 3515 Fairview Ave. Dallas, TX 75223 www.interbirthbooks.org =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 03:31:46 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: Art games In-Reply-To: <1261635913.1992.11.camel@chris-laptop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > On Mon, 2009-12-21 at 16:46 -0800, Jim Andrews wrote: >> 'virtuality' doesn't necessarily have anything to do with computers. >> we all >> have our virtual worlds inside our heads and have had for a very long >> time. > > I have a growing interest in Liz Grosz's writings on space and art which > also seems to offer a similar way of thinking. I am concerned that media > arts becomes defined by the categories of technology, but this may be > something else. > > Architecture from the Outside: Essays on Virtual and Real Space. > is the book I am thinking of, but have yet to read. > Best wishes, Chris Jones. I haven't read Liz Grosz. Concerning your point about media arts becoming defined by categories of technology, I think there will continue to be interplay between categorizations by technology and categorizations by other criteria. We categorize things by different criteria depending on the focus of the discussion. Categorization by technologies can be useful. So can categorization by theme or by genre or whatever, depending on the focus of the discussion. 'Media arts' is strongly related to 'technology arts' because a medium is a matter of technology, isn't it? A medium is defined by the technologies involved in the medium, isn't it? Whereas an art, as opposed to a medium, is a broader thing, and can jump between/among media and technologies. The very term 'media arts' suggests two different categorizations of art. By medium and by art form. And categorization by medium quickly involves, for the above reason, categorization by technologies. So it seems to me that the term 'media arts', by its nature, involves different types of categorization, and these different types of categorization reflect the ongoing need to think about the roles both of arts and media/techology in media arts. To be literate in media arts requires familiarity with both. People who are not computer literate can barely understand computer art. If it is interactive, they can't read the interactivity. They would like it to be a movie or something. But if interactivity is crucial to the piece, then they're just not going to get it. When interactivity is crucial to a piece, it's narrativistic. Narrativity is how one thing leads to another. Interactivity is a way of focussing on one thing and then another. If you can't engage with the interactivity of a piece in which interactivity is crucial, you can't experience the central 'narrative' of the piece. That is a common thing now. But the generation that was born after, say, 2000 (at which point an Internet connection was common in households), will grow up with a lot of experience of interactivity from an early age via computer games, mainly. Which will give them the basics of computer literacy and a sense of the computer as an art and entertainment medium, not just something for accounting and email. And they will like their art on the computer and net to be interactive. Not simply because they will want it to be a game, but because they will have internalized interactivity as a type of narrativity. ja http://vispo.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 11:11:19 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: Art games In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Jim and Murat: (i never did get to respond to yr last letter re Burrtoughs=2C Jim--Burroug= hs does not want to be a shamanistic artist as yo calim=3B in fact in his w= ritings generally he makes use of old neo colonial imagery to rdicule or do= ubt the shamans he meets--which at the same timeis a ridiculing=2C or findi= ng hliarous in a perverse way=2C the old imagery of colonialism in itself a= nd its perceptions of the Other--) Murat rasied a very interesting point=2C which he written with great lucidt= y and beauty of in someof his recnet poerty--namely=2C the spirtial lifeof = robtos=2C --as Murat points out=2C if you beleive that a robot/computer is = capableof anything a human is=2C why then would it not have pershaps its ow= nform of spirtual life?--In a sense one keeping the robot in a kind of colo= nial viewof the Other if a spritual life as at least a possiblity is denied= . Remeber--an old way of claiming Canadian-American Indians were not human= was that they did not have souls--hence were sub human. =20 In what ways are the machine-intelligences being perceoived as Other--in Ja= pan they certainly are in ways that they are not in the USA-- I found some thrown away coupter arts magazines lately and thought knowing = next to nothing about the gaes inside--found it fascainting to read of the = games as a form of art not so much per se but as making use of of forms or = in the programming--they stylesof movements of beings involved in the game = for example--or the movementsof the background sesnes=2C senses of speed et= c--much of it not al that strange at al to the questionsof pictorial repres= entation since the dawn of time perhaps-- The compueter games do not exist alone=2C however--they exist as a "package= " really--with relted itemsin the comic books fireld=2C action videos vdieo= cartoons etc etc--films=2C music videos=2C cds of the music--in every poss= ible form they are packaged--to be able to be sold in as many different way= s as possible. "Interacvitiy" is a kind of "red herring" term--a decoy duck--in the sense = that it makes something one does al the time seem mysterious and linkedonly= to interfacing with compueters=2C games=2C videos etc-- I kept hearing and reading and seeing so much abt this vaunted interactivit= y that when it dwaned on me what it was it was like finding a dud grenade. = "Interactivity" is very limiting--one has only so much room ot move only s= o many options--and oneis bascialy being DIRECTED by the game=2C its progr= ammers-- Many of theways that reading is written about today are somehwat similar. = One reads repeatedly the phrase "allowing the reader to construct (be inter= active with') thier own verisons of the text." iIn the first place=2C the = "allowed" puts one back iin the Bwana lands--ah! the Great White Hunter-Wri= ter allowing the benighted sub humans to find their own meanings in the wri= t of the Mighty Ones! "Interactivity" and being "allowed to create one's own meanings" sound very= wonderful until one begins to realize how little room of movement there is= in actuality--how little one realy is "allowed" to act=2C think=2C move in= the game or poem that is not already limited by the perimeters set down by= the programmer=2C the professor the poet-- The question of categories is often really a market driven one--how to name= something=2C categorize it and label it=2C the easier to sell it--or how b= est to rebrand basically the samo samo(samo old thing=2C to be euphemistic-= -) Thus tryng to determine waht is a medium (media)=2C art and technology is b= ased very much on what the item in questions is going to be markreted as--a= n interactivity game=2C an interactive poem=2C an interactive machine-- (note media-thechne-art are al very much more closely related than market c= ategories want one to think--) Children of the near future might be learning to be amzingly interactive wi= th machines=2C interfaces--but with humans?--Think of the ever more incredi= ble versions of the drones flying over Afghansiatn--in which a person seate= d at their video screen in Arizona say--is piloting their drone up and into= its flight path--target x2 4c--woops! 120 dead ciclians!! But a score!! A = strike! the same rush as the interactiviy of the video games-- (For a great documentary on this see the film GENERATION KILL --there's a b= ook of that name also=2C very good though scary as hell--and verified to me= by soliders i know who came back from iraq--or that is=2C something=2C som= e version ofthem returned--a lotof what went their died their --and the bdo= y with the destoryed wirings came home--) As Murat remarked=2C one can in akind of "gee whiz!!" manner discuss comput= er games=2C arts etc--yet this overlooks other functions such as flyiing dr= ones and wiping out villages that are just as "intreactive" andare "allowin= g the reader/pilot to choose their own versions" at least to some extent--a= gain=2C the limmiting of the human freedom-- Again=2C using yourterm "narrative"--who writes the narrative--to what exte= nt is the reader/pilot "allowed" to write it--when interacting with a machi= ne already programmed tobe as little concernied with human wil as possible = in bombing rea or game vilages--machines being considered better qualigfied= to fit this narrative-- Reading the magazines i found=2C after all=2C a great number ofthe video co= mpuetr games arts therein are concerned with extremely violent scenraios-- In a sense=2Cby defining things as "interacitve" "arts" "narratives"--this = can aid in keeping questions posed within=2C again=2C only a limited field= =2C rather than consider the com-pter games and the actionsof interactivity= in a much greater sphere of such machines and usages=2C such games and art= s--that is=2C these games and arts=2C interacivities are just as applicable= to flying drones as they are to interacting with an "art" scanrio or being= alllowed to interact with a "poem scenario" and so have participation inth= e making of apoem--just as one participates in the destruction of masses of= people in a moment's time-- How aoften =2Cafter al are the arts and cluture linked with the vilence of = war=2C looting=2C theivery--and toal annihilation=2C erasure and in some ca= ses the erecting through times of alyered strati of edifices knwon as palim= psests-- > Date: Thu=2C 24 Dec 2009 03:31:46 -0800 > From: jim@VISPO.COM > Subject: Re: Art games > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >=20 > > On Mon=2C 2009-12-21 at 16:46 -0800=2C Jim Andrews wrote: > >> 'virtuality' doesn't necessarily have anything to do with computers. > >> we all > >> have our virtual worlds inside our heads and have had for a very long > >> time. > > > > I have a growing interest in Liz Grosz's writings on space and art whic= h > > also seems to offer a similar way of thinking. I am concerned that medi= a > > arts becomes defined by the categories of technology=2C but this may be > > something else. > > > > Architecture from the Outside: Essays on Virtual and Real Space. > > is the book I am thinking of=2C but have yet to read. > > Best wishes=2C Chris Jones. >=20 > I haven't read Liz Grosz. >=20 > Concerning your point about media arts becoming defined by categories of= =20 > technology=2C I think there will continue to be interplay between=20 > categorizations by technology and categorizations by other criteria. We=20 > categorize things by different criteria depending on the focus of the=20 > discussion. Categorization by technologies can be useful. So can=20 > categorization by theme or by genre or whatever=2C depending on the focus= of=20 > the discussion. >=20 > 'Media arts' is strongly related to 'technology arts' because a medium is= a=20 > matter of technology=2C isn't it? A medium is defined by the technologies= =20 > involved in the medium=2C isn't it? >=20 > Whereas an art=2C as opposed to a medium=2C is a broader thing=2C and can= jump=20 > between/among media and technologies. >=20 > The very term 'media arts' suggests two different categorizations of art.= By=20 > medium and by art form. And categorization by medium quickly involves=2C = for=20 > the above reason=2C categorization by technologies. >=20 > So it seems to me that the term 'media arts'=2C by its nature=2C involves= =20 > different types of categorization=2C and these different types of=20 > categorization reflect the ongoing need to think about the roles both of= =20 > arts and media/techology in media arts. To be literate in media arts=20 > requires familiarity with both. >=20 > People who are not computer literate can barely understand computer art. = If=20 > it is interactive=2C they can't read the interactivity. They would like i= t to=20 > be a movie or something. But if interactivity is crucial to the piece=2C = then=20 > they're just not going to get it. When interactivity is crucial to a piec= e=2C=20 > it's narrativistic. Narrativity is how one thing leads to another.=20 > Interactivity is a way of focussing on one thing and then another. If you= =20 > can't engage with the interactivity of a piece in which interactivity is= =20 > crucial=2C you can't experience the central 'narrative' of the piece. >=20 > That is a common thing now. But the generation that was born after=2C say= =2C=20 > 2000 (at which point an Internet connection was common in households)=2C = will=20 > grow up with a lot of experience of interactivity from an early age via=20 > computer games=2C mainly. Which will give them the basics of computer lit= eracy=20 > and a sense of the computer as an art and entertainment medium=2C not jus= t=20 > something for accounting and email. And they will like their art on the=20 > computer and net to be interactive. Not simply because they will want it = to=20 > be a game=2C but because they will have internalized interactivity as a t= ype=20 > of narrativity. >=20 > ja > http://vispo.com=20 >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 08:42:08 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Pierre Joris Subject: Happy Hols & Nomadics posts Comments: cc: British-Irish List , "Poetryetc: poetry and poetics" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Happy holidays, excellent health & creative days ahead to one & all =97 =97 & may the coming decade be an improvement on the one we are about to = leave behind! Meanwhile back at fort Yellow Hook, I am serializing (there will be four = installments) a prose memoir=20 and mediation on cities =97 especially Brooklyn =97 by Robert Kelly. = Check it out: http://pierrejoris.com/blog/ Other recent posts include: An interesting Poetics Booklist for Late Shoppers=85 Humpback Whalesongs Just out: Nicole Brossard by Nicole Brossard Cantarow: Resistance in Bethlehem=92s Villages Rain Taxi Benefit Auction =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D "Lyric poetry has to be exorbitant or not at all." -- Gottfried Benn =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Pierre Joris =20 cell phone: 518 225 7123 = =20 email: jorpierre@gmail.com http://pierrejoris.com Nomadics blog: http://pierrejoris.com/blog/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 14:22:10 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: Art games In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Hi - you write - "Interactivity" and being "allowed to create one's own meanings" sound very wonderful until one begins to realize how little room of movement there is in actuality--how little one realy is "allowed" to act, think, move in the game or poem that is not already limited by the perimeters set down by the programmer, the professor the poet--" - But this just isn't true. Gamers use cheat, social spaces, etc. I'd suggest looking at Ken Wark's work. I use Second Life (SL) a great deal - there are ways to even affect the servers, 'cheat' the gamespace, open portals in it, and so forth; it would take too long to go into this. The interactivity is also among participants - they're social spaces like any other. We think of physical reality as 'interactive,' yet we can't change gravity (you can in SL if you're good enough actually). Before making judgments about any of this, it would be worthwhile to actually use the spaces for a while. I'd forget categories like 'media arts,' 'new media.' A few of us are calling ourselves 'newer media artists' for the hell of it. As far as virtuality goes, I've written (and published but who cares) on this a lot - the body is always already virtual, as Lingis and others indicate as well. It's inscribed, cultural, not emptied of semiosis. Pain, obscenity, and arousal break through this (see Dennett), which is some- thing Kristeva pointed out a long time ago (Revolution in Poetic Lang.). - Alanm ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 13:35:03 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve russell Subject: Re: Art games In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii the dear ole soul. when i'm not suffering severe insomnia, sending ranting emails at all hours, i ponder that precious little gem, the soul. & if all matter, all being, consciousness & non-conscious entities share DNA, then why not a little robot soul. the machine, btw, is tops in the chess world. No-one beats Mr. Robot. Not the current champ from India, not even the great Kasparov. In the early stages of chess vs. man, Kasparov had the upper hand with the machine. No longer. It took maybe no longer than a decade for the machine to figure out chess. & without the machine, I would have given up on the visual arts. Now it's back in play, thanks to the humble but handy PC. How long, I wonder, before Mr. PC or boss Robot becomes poet laurete? ________________________________ From: David-Baptiste Chirot To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Thu, December 24, 2009 9:11:19 AM Subject: Re: Art games Dear Jim and Murat: (i never did get to respond to yr last letter re Burrtoughs, Jim--Burroughs does not want to be a shamanistic artist as yo calim; in fact in his writings generally he makes use of old neo colonial imagery to rdicule or doubt the shamans he meets--which at the same timeis a ridiculing, or finding hliarous in a perverse way, the old imagery of colonialism in itself and its perceptions of the Other--) Murat rasied a very interesting point, which he written with great lucidty and beauty of in someof his recnet poerty--namely, the spirtial lifeof robtos, --as Murat points out, if you beleive that a robot/computer is capableof anything a human is, why then would it not have pershaps its ownform of spirtual life?--In a sense one keeping the robot in a kind of colonial viewof the Other if a spritual life as at least a possiblity is denied. Remeber--an old way of claiming Canadian-American Indians were not human was that they did not have souls--hence were sub human. In what ways are the machine-intelligences being perceoived as Other--in Japan they certainly are in ways that they are not in the USA-- I found some thrown away coupter arts magazines lately and thought knowing next to nothing about the gaes inside--found it fascainting to read of the games as a form of art not so much per se but as making use of of forms or in the programming--they stylesof movements of beings involved in the game for example--or the movementsof the background sesnes, senses of speed etc--much of it not al that strange at al to the questionsof pictorial representation since the dawn of time perhaps-- The compueter games do not exist alone, however--they exist as a "package" really--with relted itemsin the comic books fireld, action videos vdieo cartoons etc etc--films, music videos, cds of the music--in every possible form they are packaged--to be able to be sold in as many different ways as possible. "Interacvitiy" is a kind of "red herring" term--a decoy duck--in the sense that it makes something one does al the time seem mysterious and linkedonly to interfacing with compueters, games, videos etc-- I kept hearing and reading and seeing so much abt this vaunted interactivity that when it dwaned on me what it was it was like finding a dud grenade. "Interactivity" is very limiting--one has only so much room ot move only so many options--and oneis bascialy being DIRECTED by the game, its programmers-- Many of theways that reading is written about today are somehwat similar. One reads repeatedly the phrase "allowing the reader to construct (be interactive with') thier own verisons of the text." iIn the first place, the "allowed" puts one back iin the Bwana lands--ah! the Great White Hunter-Writer allowing the benighted sub humans to find their own meanings in the writ of the Mighty Ones! "Interactivity" and being "allowed to create one's own meanings" sound very wonderful until one begins to realize how little room of movement there is in actuality--how little one realy is "allowed" to act, think, move in the game or poem that is not already limited by the perimeters set down by the programmer, the professor the poet-- The question of categories is often really a market driven one--how to name something, categorize it and label it, the easier to sell it--or how best to rebrand basically the samo samo(samo old thing, to be euphemistic--) Thus tryng to determine waht is a medium (media), art and technology is based very much on what the item in questions is going to be markreted as--an interactivity game, an interactive poem, an interactive machine-- (note media-thechne-art are al very much more closely related than market categories want one to think--) Children of the near future might be learning to be amzingly interactive with machines, interfaces--but with humans?--Think of the ever more incredible versions of the drones flying over Afghansiatn--in which a person seated at their video screen in Arizona say--is piloting their drone up and into its flight path--target x2 4c--woops! 120 dead ciclians!! But a score!! A strike! the same rush as the interactiviy of the video games-- (For a great documentary on this see the film GENERATION KILL --there's a book of that name also, very good though scary as hell--and verified to me by soliders i know who came back from iraq--or that is, something, some version ofthem returned--a lotof what went their died their --and the bdoy with the destoryed wirings came home--) As Murat remarked, one can in akind of "gee whiz!!" manner discuss computer games, arts etc--yet this overlooks other functions such as flyiing drones and wiping out villages that are just as "intreactive" andare "allowing the reader/pilot to choose their own versions" at least to some extent--again, the limmiting of the human freedom-- Again, using yourterm "narrative"--who writes the narrative--to what extent is the reader/pilot "allowed" to write it--when interacting with a machine already programmed tobe as little concernied with human wil as possible in bombing rea or game vilages--machines being considered better qualigfied to fit this narrative-- Reading the magazines i found, after all, a great number ofthe video compuetr games arts therein are concerned with extremely violent scenraios-- In a sense,by defining things as "interacitve" "arts" "narratives"--this can aid in keeping questions posed within, again, only a limited field, rather than consider the com-pter games and the actionsof interactivity in a much greater sphere of such machines and usages, such games and arts--that is, these games and arts, interacivities are just as applicable to flying drones as they are to interacting with an "art" scanrio or being alllowed to interact with a "poem scenario" and so have participation inthe making of apoem--just as one participates in the destruction of masses of people in a moment's time-- How aoften ,after al are the arts and cluture linked with the vilence of war, looting, theivery--and toal annihilation, erasure and in some cases the erecting through times of alyered strati of edifices knwon as palimpsests-- > Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 03:31:46 -0800 > From: jim@VISPO.COM > Subject: Re: Art games > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > > On Mon, 2009-12-21 at 16:46 -0800, Jim Andrews wrote: > >> 'virtuality' doesn't necessarily have anything to do with computers. > >> we all > >> have our virtual worlds inside our heads and have had for a very long > >> time. > > > > I have a growing interest in Liz Grosz's writings on space and art which > > also seems to offer a similar way of thinking. I am concerned that media > > arts becomes defined by the categories of technology, but this may be > > something else. > > > > Architecture from the Outside: Essays on Virtual and Real Space. > > is the book I am thinking of, but have yet to read. > > Best wishes, Chris Jones. > > I haven't read Liz Grosz. > > Concerning your point about media arts becoming defined by categories of > technology, I think there will continue to be interplay between > categorizations by technology and categorizations by other criteria. We > categorize things by different criteria depending on the focus of the > discussion. Categorization by technologies can be useful. So can > categorization by theme or by genre or whatever, depending on the focus of > the discussion. > > 'Media arts' is strongly related to 'technology arts' because a medium is a > matter of technology, isn't it? A medium is defined by the technologies > involved in the medium, isn't it? > > Whereas an art, as opposed to a medium, is a broader thing, and can jump > between/among media and technologies. > > The very term 'media arts' suggests two different categorizations of art. By > medium and by art form. And categorization by medium quickly involves, for > the above reason, categorization by technologies. > > So it seems to me that the term 'media arts', by its nature, involves > different types of categorization, and these different types of > categorization reflect the ongoing need to think about the roles both of > arts and media/techology in media arts. To be literate in media arts > requires familiarity with both. > > People who are not computer literate can barely understand computer art. If > it is interactive, they can't read the interactivity. They would like it to > be a movie or something. But if interactivity is crucial to the piece, then > they're just not going to get it. When interactivity is crucial to a piece, > it's narrativistic. Narrativity is how one thing leads to another. > Interactivity is a way of focussing on one thing and then another. If you > can't engage with the interactivity of a piece in which interactivity is > crucial, you can't experience the central 'narrative' of the piece. > > That is a common thing now. But the generation that was born after, say, > 2000 (at which point an Internet connection was common in households), will > grow up with a lot of experience of interactivity from an early age via > computer games, mainly. Which will give them the basics of computer literacy > and a sense of the computer as an art and entertainment medium, not just > something for accounting and email. And they will like their art on the > computer and net to be interactive. Not simply because they will want it to > be a game, but because they will have internalized interactivity as a type > of narrativity. > > ja > http://vispo.com > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 14:10:40 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: Art games In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit dear david it's true that militaries use a lot of computers and even some computer games. and a lot of popular computer games are very sympathetically militaristic. there's a lot of money in selling and making that stuff if you do it for a big corp. corpses for corps. computing is just another weapon for militaristic minds. but then so is print. and television. and radio, the movie house, and so on. i don't think you'd suggest that these other media are thereby worthless as art, that they are simply instruments of control and militaristic, consumeristic brainwashing. it's worthwhile to present people with intelligent alternatives to such material in computing. the net is of course big into ecommerce, these days, and a lot of it looks like a store. very consumeristic. but to identify all computer art with either the military or consumeristic zeal is mistaken. there's a lot of the same in other media, but we don't identify them solely with such things. interactivity is not simply about directing people and controlling them, but in taking direction from people. about presenting them with interesting choices and entertaining choices. or educational choices. or x choices. some programs, such as word or photoshop or this email program, are called tools because the direction by the program is simply instrumental. the tools don't write the doc or do the photo or write the email. the influence of the tool on the content is only at the person's behest. good tools primarily take direction rather than give it. but when direction is asked for, good tools also provide good direction, like a flexible spell checker and so on. we don't think of these tools as works of art. and, i think, for good reason. they don't claim to be art but claim to be tools that we use to make art and other things. we don't call them art any more than we call a typewriter art. an artist could make art from typewriters, of course, but that's something else. some other interactive programs do claim to be works of art. what's the difference? such programs do influence what you make with them more than tools do. we can imagine two continuums between computer tools and computer art. one continuum is the amount and type and quality of direction offered or imposed. the other is the amount and type and quality of direction taken. what we look for in interactive computer art is not that it be like word or photoshop or this email client in the extent to which it takes direction and the lack of extent to which it gives direction. we're not simply looking to call tools art. instead, we look for works in which an interesting kind of dialogue is created between oneself and the program concerning our influence and its influence on the creation of the piece. the giving and taking of direction involves not a master-slave relation but a lively dialogue. and the work that is created is not so much created from a blank tablet, as it more or less is in word and photoshop and this email client, but is a permutation/combination/instance of a database of components. so that we think of the piece we've made with the program as an instance of a larger set of possibilities, and we like to get a sense of the nature and qualities of that larger set when we turn to appreciation of the art work. And when we use the program enough and they all begin to look the same to us, that could be because we then understand something about the shape of that larger set, which is important to the appreciation of the work. when marketing says 'you can make your own', well, that's just a marketing ploy. if it's simply a tool, you can make your own, but if it's an interactive work of art, you're exploring the work of art. mind you, we can also imagine programs that offer such a vast set of possibilities, yet also offer artistic directions, that the line is blurred between tool and work of art. it may take a very long time indeed before we feel that they've all begun to look the same (or sound the same, or read the same, etc) and that we have fully explored the interactive range of our influence on the creation of the piece. merry christmas to you, david, and to all the people on the poetics list. ja http://vispo.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 18:31:16 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Art games In-Reply-To: <5339AD3C3F814864AD2D85639CD8B440@OwnerPC> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 *'virtuality' doesn't necessarily have anything to do with computers. we all have our virtual worlds inside our heads and have had for a very long time. so what happens to the assertion, if you replace the word "programmability" with "virtuality" is you have an assertion that is false, murat.* By this argument "programmability" also has existed in the world for a long time. A novelist prepares a plot scheme, a sonneteer knows he or she has to use fourteen lines, etc. A form is by your definition a program; but it is very clear you mean something else by programmability. The same way the virtuality of a computer is something else from the virtuality of a person's thoughts. Your analogy (basicly a metaphor) is rhetorically cute, but really a stretch. *lopes doesn't find the "essence of computer art in computer games". he's a trained philosopher, so the word 'essence' is one he would use carefully. you are making a lot of assumptions about his work and about what i think, and you're generally quite far off base with them. he thinks of computer games as instances of or examples of computer art. his definition of computer art, as i mention in the review at http://www.ciac.ca/magazine/compterendu.htm , is* You are right. I was reacting to his words in his interview with you. He is saying games are one kind of computer art, seguing into and implying by it that "immersion," total absorption as in a game is a crucial aspect of computer art. *"An item is a computer art work just in case (1) it's art, (2) it's run on a computer, (3) it's interactive, and (4) it's interactive because it's run on a computer" (p. 27)* Since the first three of these conditions can either exist outside a computer (#'s 1 and 3) or can exist without being art (# 2), we are left with the fourth: computer art is art whose interactivity is dependent on a computer -a definition very similar to the definition of a computer game, particularly if one adds the quality of "immersion," which Mr. Lopes seems to do. It seems to me that he believes games are much nearer to something I would call essence of computer art than it appears on the surface. *so it's a theory of interactive computer art. he's trying to get at the important characteristics of art in which the computer is crucial as medium. it isn't a book about art that happens to be digital but could as well appear in print or whatever. * Following my argument, one can easily make the statement: computer art is a kind of computer game. I am pretty sure you would not agree with that statement. I am less certain about Mr. Lopes. He does imply an similarity (if not equality or even identity) between games and art created strictly on a computer. (Interestingly, he sees a continuity between games, chess, or visual/verbal entertainment, comic books, outside a computer and on.) I would be be interested in finding Mr. Lopes's reaction to the statement, "computer art is a kind of computer game." If he disagrees with it, does he then not need to make the distinction between art and game part of his definition of computer art. On my part, seeing computer art as a game, more correctly as play, would be illuminating -a real insight into the possibilities of computer, similar to seeing poetry as play of language ("I play at riches to ease the clamoring for gold." Emily Dickinson). *there are works, such as harold cohen's aaron, which lopes discusses in his book, that are not interactive but actually are works of computer art. so lopes's definition of computer art is too narrrow to include all works of computer art. but it's a very good book nonetheless because a clear philosophy of interactive computer art is valuable. it *is* a theory of a type of computer art, not a theory of work that isn't necessarily computer art.* Does Lopes consider harold cohen's work not computer art then? I would be very interested to see if Lopes accepts your criticism, that his definition is insufficient, or insists that in his view interactivity -in its "immersiveness" something similar to a computer game- is integral to computer art, a quality cohen's work does not possess. If he still insists on his definition, in my view, his idea becomes more interesting. *to broaden the definition of 'computer art' to include work such as cohen's aaron, one needs to look at the role of programming in computer art, because programmability (not virtuality) is what distinguishes computers from other machines.* We already have gone over this. *You say* * "If one assumes, as I think you indirectly are doing, that there is no break between "human" thought and "computer/machine" thought, that they represent a continuum -that machines also have their "spiritual lives"- then one must analyze the "otherness," nature of human thought as it "passes"/ travels into the algorthmic/computer universe/space." * * I've never met a spirtual machine. Except if you call works of art 'spiritual'. I don't expect to in my lifetime meet a 'spiritual machine'. We have been evolving on this planet for 2.5 billion years and the universe itself is apparently only about 15 billion years old. So we've been evolving over a significant portion of the entire time of the universe's existence. Computers have a long way to go, even if their 'evolution' is much faster than ours.* Underlying your disquisition on time, there is a simple fact. If you are claiming -and I am accepting your claim- that machines can, potentially at least, reproduce all human thought -that machines can "think"- then you have to accept that machines can potentially develop a spirit -"have a spiritual life".- Unless, you want to claim that the spirit is something different, separate, ineffable and inviolate, which I don't think you do. You can't have it both ways. If machines can think (that there is nothing to prove they can't), then, they can develop a spirit. Some of them may even start believing in god. In other words, when one is creating, for instance, images of Anghor Wat in a computer art work, one can not see and accept those images as flat, manipulated fodder in the hands of the artist's "imagination" (his or her "spiritual life") but entities that, in/despite their profound otherness, have their own autonomous "objectivity," their "spiritual life." In other words, the enlightened openness you show towards the intellectual capabilities of the computer as machine -I have been aware of your long admiration for Turing's ideas- you must also show towards the materials which enter a computer art work. *But we can think of the current state as holding all the conditions for the development of 'thought' in computers. They can make decisions. They can re-write their own code. They can have 'senses'. They can interpret the information from their 'senses'. They can construct a world view. They are language machines. And there is no proof, and probably never will be, that there exist thought processes of which humans are capable and computers are not. Machine intelligence would undoubtedly be quite different from human intelligence because the contexts of our existences are quite different. We have biological bodies and have evolved in ways quite different from how computers 'evolve'. *Your sentence, "Machine intelligence would undoubtedly be quite different from human intelligence because the contexts of our existences are quite different. We have biological bodies and have evolved in ways quite different from how computers 'evolve'", seems to contradict what you say in the previous part of this paragraph. What does "context of our existence" mean for you? In fact, your approach systematically seems to avoid looking at this broader "context," focusing basically on the possibilities of the computer as a machine "to produce (human) art." If you had focused more on the broader context, our discussions may have taken other turns. Your distinction between machine and biology is bogus. There is such a thing as a cyborg (at this moment only in our imagination as a possibility, no doubt). The argument is the same. The film *Blade Runner* goes beautifully and deeply into the relationship between the human and his replicant, revealing that the question (physical, moral, political) of machine intelligence is at bottom one with the question of otherness, of the human ability to see, embrace the other. The beauty of *Film Runner* is that the audience experiences it from the point of view, the "subjectivity," of that other, his/her/its -the cyborg's- "spiritual life," in terms of its facing mortality. (*Blade Runner* was the last great sci-fi movie which did not produce its special effects digitally even though there are very few, if any, sci-fi film which can match it in power and the potency of its images. A few months ago in this list I argued that this was so because the makers of *Blade Runner* were forced to *choose* the effects that were *necessary*. This leads to the question if there is something detrimental to the creation of art in the mechanical fluidity of the computer as a medium. In an interview the film maker Jean Renoir says that an art form weakens -the term he uses is "becomes decadent"- to the degree that its medium becomes more efficient, technically more advanced (one can find the interview in the specials section of the DVD for the film *The French Cancan*). I made a similar argument in my book *The Peripheral Space of Photography* where I argue that some of the most powerful things in 19th century photographs occur because of the difficulties the early cameras had replicating the image of the computer, "Intentional or not, the power of [these photographs] has nothing to do with painting but is integral to the nature and limitations of photographic medium itself, involving not copying, but the 'perilous and ambiguous process of reproduction' and the demands the photographic subject puts on the lens.") * I don't see what is "utopian" about this view, or distopian, for that matter. I never said they were going to make everything all better, and neither does Lopes. * What is "utopian" about it is your naivety that computer art can be approached solely in its own terms (as simply a product of technical openings, inventions and possibilities) without reference to the context within which it exists, how it is affected by the social and moral forces, political and metaphysical ideas surrounding them and how it reflects, or fails to do so, those forces. * What he does say, and I agree with, is that computer art is a new form of art. By that I don't mean art that happens to be digital but could as well appear in print or whatever, but art in which the computer is crucial as medium. This doesn't make it better than other forms of art. It's different. It has what many people feel are exciting possibilities both by virtue of its being relatively unexplored and also by virtue of the radical possibilities computers offer. *Your definition actually contradicts Lopes's. As long as it is "crucial" in its production, if computer art can also appear in print or whatever, then a poem produced on a word processor can also be defined as computer art (that is exactly the dilemma Lopes is trying to avaid).* I'm happy to see a book written by a philosopher about computer art. It's quite a different sort of book than the other ones I've read about 'digital art', 'internet art', 'digital poetry', and so on. He isn't looking for the social or literary (etc) significance of computer art. He's just looking to describe what it is. Which is valuable. Just the basics. Just the fundamentals. * Does such "basics" (essence?) really exist? Isn't an art form always, from its inception, entangled with its context? Interestingly, David in his last post picks on the "game" like structure of computer art which Lopes observes (something to do with that art's "basics") and shows the political ramifications of such an approach. *There is so much anxiety, wild speculation, ranting and raving about computers and, to a lesser extent, computer art in society. A book like this, which just looks at what it is in a basic, clear way is valuable in such a situation.* Jim, you should stop offering smelling salts to anyone which doubts the all consuming efficacy of this medium. After all, the computer is potentially a medium of absolute control (a potential panoptican) as well as of total liberation and bounty (a Parisian Arcade). Ciao, Murat ja http://vispo.com On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 7:46 PM, Jim Andrews wrote: > 'virtuality' doesn't necessarily have anything to do with computers. we all > have our virtual worlds inside our heads and have had for a very long time. > so what happens to the assertion, if you replace the word "programmability" > with "virtuality" is you have an assertion that is false, murat. > > lopes doesn't find the "essence of computer art in computer games". he's a > trained philosopher, so the word 'essence' is one he would use carefully. > you are making a lot of assumptions about his work and about what i think, > and you're generally quite far off base with them. he thinks of computer > games as instances of or examples of computer art. his definition of > computer art, as i mention in the review at > http://www.ciac.ca/magazine/compterendu.htm , is > > "An item is a computer art work just in case (1) it's art, (2) it's run on > a computer, (3) it's interactive, and (4) it's interactive because it's run > on a computer" (p. 27) > > so it's a theory of interactive computer art. he's trying to get at the > important characteristics of art in which the computer is crucial as medium. > it isn't a book about art that happens to be digital but could as well > appear in print or whatever. > > there are works, such as harold cohen's aaron, which lopes discusses in his > book, that are not interactive but actually are works of computer art. so > lopes's definition of computer art is too narrrow to include all works of > computer art. but it's a very good book nonetheless because a clear > philosophy of interactive computer art is valuable. it *is* a theory of a > type of computer art, not a theory of work that isn't necessarily computer > art. > > to broaden the definition of 'computer art' to include work such as cohen's > aaron, one needs to look at the role of programming in computer art, because > programmability (not virtuality) is what distinguishes computers from other > machines. > > You say > > > "If one assumes, as I think you indirectly are doing, that there is no > break > between "human" thought and "computer/machine" thought, that they represent > a continuum -that machines also have their "spiritual lives"- then one must > analyze the "otherness," nature of human thought as it "passes"/ travels > into the algorthmic/computer universe/space." > > I've never met a spirtual machine. Except if you call works of art > 'spiritual'. I don't expect to in my lifetime meet a 'spiritual machine'. We > have been evolving on this planet for 2.5 billion years and the universe > itself is apparently only about 15 billion years old. So we've been evolving > over a significant portion of the entire time of the universe's existence. > Computers have a long way to go, even if their 'evolution' is much faster > than ours. > > But we can think of the current state as holding all the conditions for the > development of 'thought' in computers. They can make decisions. They can > re-write their own code. They can have 'senses'. They can interpret the > information from their 'senses'. They can construct a world view. They are > language machines. And there is no proof, and probably never will be, that > there exist thought processes of which humans are capable and computers are > not. Machine intelligence would undoubtedly be quite different from human > intelligence because the contexts of our existences are quite different. We > have biological bodies and have evolved in ways quite different from how > computers 'evolve'. > > I don't see what is "utopian" about this view, or distopian, for that > matter. I never said they were going to make everything all better, and > neither does Lopes. > > What he does say, and I agree with, is that computer art is a new form of > art. By that I don't mean art that happens to be digital but could as well > appear in print or whatever, but art in which the computer is crucial as > medium. This doesn't make it better than other forms of art. It's different. > It has what many people feel are exciting possibilities both by virtue of > its being relatively unexplored and also by virtue of the radical > possibilities computers offer. > > I'm happy to see a book written by a philosopher about computer art. It's > quite a different sort of book than the other ones I've read about 'digital > art', 'internet art', 'digital poetry', and so on. He isn't looking for the > social or literary (etc) significance of computer art. He's just looking to > describe what it is. Which is valuable. Just the basics. Just the > fundamentals. There is so much anxiety, wild speculation, ranting and raving > about computers and, to a lesser extent, computer art in society. A book > like this, which just looks at what it is in a basic, clear way is valuable > in such a situation. > > ja > http://vispo.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Murat Nemet-Nejat" > To: > Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 12:51 PM > Subject: Re: Art games > > > > Dear Jim, > > I have listened to your Lopes interview and read your review of his book. I > want to unpack -or react to- one short passage from your review: > > "What separates computers from other machines is programmability. > Programmability is what gives computers their radical flexibility, as > machines. Flexibility to the point that there is no proof, and probably > never will be, that there exist thought processes of which humans are > capable and computers are not. Which is to say that programmability > provides > flexibility, very likely, to the point of the dynamic fluidity of thought. > " > > ""What separates computers from other machines is programmability. > Programmability is what gives computers their radical flexibility, as > machines." > > What happens to this assertion if you replace the word "programmability" > with "virtuality?" After all, the latter is the direct corollary of the > former. One has a conceptual edifice which may disappear like smoke at a > moment's notice; what one has then is -not fragments, nor relics- but a > "program" which may be constant or have its own mysterious cycle of > half-lives. Is this erosion in "substance" peculiar only to computers -the > defining quality of a computer- or is it a reflection of a broader shift in > one's perception of reality. The atom theory of substance is progressively > split into smaller particles -quarks (as in quacks), leptons (as in > Lipton), > bosons (as in bisons), neutrinos, muons, tauans, and their antis, etc., > etc. > - so that we have a conceptual reality can only be grasped by computers, by > the grasp of its algorithms.- The string theory has the feel and image > structure of a fairy tale, with its secret passages, trap doors, strange > animals, mazes, or of the addictive games in a computer? And, finally, the > grand daddy of this kind of language universe, Alice's descent into the > Wonderland (after all, Alice cries "it's all "virtual"). Despite all its > interconnectedness and "universality," the computer, it seems to me, is a > profoundly subjective, even solipsistic medium, continuously built on, > reinforced by one's wishes -fulfillments- ("choices) -a quality touted as > one of its main virtues but in actuality is one of its most subversive > qualities, a Trojan horse against human freedom. Despite its ocean of > "interconnectivity," isn't this why our world consists of archipelagos of > isolation (heard by no one) and narcissism (wanting to hear no one) > fighting > each other? > > If Mr. Lopes wants to develop a theory of computer art, instead of creating > dainty little defintions fitting together like a Chinese puzzle, he should > tackle these broader issues. > > "Flexibility to the point that there is no proof, and probably never will > be, that there exist thought processes of which humans are capable and > computers are not. Which is to say that programmability provides > flexibility, very likely, to the point of the dynamic fluidity of thought." > > If one assumes, as I think you indirectly are doing, that there is no break > between "human" thought and "computer/machine" thought, that they represent > a continuum -that machines also have their "spiritual lives"- then one must > analyze the "otherness," nature of human thought as it "passes"/ travels > into the algorthmic/computer universe/space. It is this absence of a > confrontation with this "otherness" which I find most frustrating in the > nearly Utopian protestations of the computer/digital art enthusiasts. I > find > in them a touch of sentimentality. > > Mr. Lopes finds in computer games the essence of computer art. My guess is > that there is a good deal of truth in that. But then then he sees those > games similar to pop entertainment. The truly good ones are much more akin > to fairy tales, full of "real" danger, threat and warnings. > > I would like to salute David Chirot's posts (and recommend his work on > line) > which carry on similar arguments to mine from a different perspective. > > Ciao, > > Murat > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 22:49:24 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: CA Conrad Subject: our war MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 There is no escaping the fact that MANY OF US who voted for Obama DID NOT (I repeat) DID NOT vote for the escalation of war! But we did UNKNOWINGLY vote for war, fooled by his grade-school vocabulary of HOPE and CHANGE and BELIEVE, his Coca Cola ad campaign for president. I for one DID NOT vote for Obama as an individual with an individual political party, individual religious affiliation, or some other bureaucratic individual's path to the State or Heaven. I instead voted as a human being who HONESTLY believed that Obama would not harm the people of the world as did Bush. Part of our war includes the push for "gays in the military" as a civil rights issue. I for one DO NOT believe for a second that there is ANYTHING civil about the United States Military Industrial Complex. And I am NOT interested in making the DEADLIEST war machine on Earth gay friendly! PLEASE take a moment to review (and possibly sign) this petition (this is ALSO for straight people): http://invasionanniversary.blogspot.com/ This is a very important issue, please join the fight. Most sincerely, CAConrad -- PhillySound: new poetry http://PhillySound.blogspot.com THE BOOK OF FRANK by CAConrad http://CAConrad.blogspot.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2009 12:12:09 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Eric Hoffman Subject: Vic Chesnutt donation page MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii http://kristinhersh.cashmusic.org/vic/ Thanks to Alison Jenning for the link. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2009 19:26:26 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Comments: RFC822 error: Invalid RFC822 field - "Tuesday, December 29, 7pm-lat=". Rest of header flushed. From: julia bloch Subject: MLA Off-Site Reading, 12/29, 7pm, Philadelphia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please join us for the MLA Off-Site Reading=0ATuesday, December 29, 7pm-lat= e=0AThe Rotunda, 4014 Walnut Street, Philadelphia=0A=0APlease join us to he= ar a bevy of local and visiting poets for 2009's MLA Off-Site Poetry Readin= g. Performances start at 7pm and will go until approximately 10pm.=0A=0ARea= ders will include CA Conrad, Frank Sherlock, Rachel Blau DuPlessis, Ron Sil= liman, Gregory Laynor, Aldon Nielsen, Bob Perelman, Adrian Khactu, Danny Sn= elson, Bill Howe, Carlos Soto Rom=E1n, Jamie Townsend, Laura Moriarty, Jenn= McCreary, Chris McCreary, Lisa Howe, Tyrone Williams, Timothy Yu, Sueyeun = Juliette Lee, CS Carrier, Ryan Eckes, James Shea, Eric Selland, Charles Can= talupo, Jennifer Scappettone, Thomas Devaney, Pattie McCarthy, Evie Shockle= y, Barrett Watten, Carla Harryman, Michael Hennessey, Ish Klein, Norma Cole= , Suzanne Heyd, Kim Gek Lin Short, Jason Zuzga, Nava EtShalom, Ron Silliman= , & more=0A=0AThe reading is free, wheelchair accessible, and open to the p= ublic.=0A=0ATo reach the Rotunda from the MLA Conference (Marriott Hotel), = take the Market-Frankford subway line to 40th and Market or the #21 SEPTA b= us to 40th and Walnut.=0A=0ADetails at http://mlaoffsitereading.blogspot.co= m/=0A=0AN.B. This reading is preceded by the MLA On-Site Off-Site Poetry Re= ading, 5:15pm, Philadelphia Marriott Liberty Ballroom Salon A, also open to= the public.=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 09:58:05 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jerome Rothenberg Subject: Hiromi Ito & Others MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The most recent posting on Poems & Poetics = (poemsandpoetics.blogspot.com), the blog/magazine/anthology that I've = been composing over the last year and a half, is a poem, "Coyote," by = Hiromi Ito, with an extended commentary by her translator Jeffrey = Angles. Ito has emerged over the last twenty-five years as a truly = major figure in Japanese poetry, although her primary residence since = 1993 has been up the block from us in Encinitas, California. The = posting here is in celebration of the publication by Action Books in = Notre Dame, Indiana, of KILLING KANOKO, the first ample presentation of = her work in English. Of this I wrote in tribute: "The appearance of = this generous and beautifully rendered translation of Hiromi Ito's = poetry is a significant and memorable event for American letters. For = Ito is poet of truly international stature, whose work breaks down = barriers of language and gender, bringing an unprecedented erotic energy = and eruptions of transgressive and domestic excess into areas of deep = myth and shamanistic performance. It is a poetry of her world and of our = worlds as well, the gift of a supremely intelligent and relentlessly = exuberant mind, situated somewhere between bliss and nightmare. That she = has now chosen to live among us is a still further cause for = celebration." And Anne Waldman from a diffeent vantage: "KILLING KANOKO = is a powerful, long-overdue collection (in fine translation) of poetry = from the radical Japanese feminist poet, Hiromi Ito. Her poems = reverberate with sexual candor, the exigencies and delights of the = paradoxically restless/rooted female body, and the visceral imagery of = childbirth leap off the page as performative modal structures--fierce, = witty, and vibrant. Hiromi Ito is a true sister of the Beats." =20 Other recent postings on Poems & Poetics include: Eleni Sikelianos: For = a Panel on Poetry & the Environment; Nathaniel Tarn: From Anthropologist = to Informant, a Field Record of Gary Snyder; Nakahara Chuya: Three Poems = Newly Englished by Jerome Rothenberg and Yasuhiro Yotsumoto; Jess = (Collins): Images from "Tricky Cad" with an anecdote, in memory; Pierre = Joris: Notes Towards a Nomadics Manifesto; David Antin: From "Words to = the Wise" (2 poems, 2009); Nicole Brossard: Why Do You Write in French?; = Bei Dao: Four Poems, Newly Translated by Clayton Eshleman and Lucas = Klein; Amy Catanzano: Excerpt from "Quantum Poetics: Writing the Speed = of Light"; David-Baptiste Chirot: F=E9lix F=E9n=E9on, Conceptual Poetry, = & the Animated Other; and various entries on two ongoing projects, = "Reconfiguring Romanticism" and "Outside Poetry: An Anthology in = Progress." Jerome Rothenberg Poetry must have something in it 1026 San Abella that is barbaric, vast and wild.. Encinitas, CA 92024 -- D. Diderot jrothenberg at cox.net=20 poemsandpoetics.blogspot.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 17:09:13 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Comments: RFC822 error: Invalid RFC822 field - "would like to let you all know about a really terrific movie J=". Rest of header flushed. From: nieuwland jeroen Subject: Men of Words: docu about Yemenese cassette-poetry In-Reply-To: <1dec21ae0912181251t71b1b7c8q8f36ad76f8bf8b43@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear all, =0Awould like to let you all know about a really terrific movie J= ohanne Ihle made for her Masters Visual Anthropology. It is about the inter= esting phenomenon of cassette-poetry in Yemen (and builds on the work of Fl= agg Miller, who is now incidentally analyzing the tapes that used to be in = Bin Laden's possession). =0A=0AThe (20 minute) film can be viewed online, b= ut you need a password, for which you can write Johanne at johanneihle@hot= mail.com =0A=0A=0APacked in a burqa and carrying a camera (so I have been t= old), Ihle=0Atraveled into the vast mountains of Southern Yemen to the area= of Yafi=E2=80=99=0Ato record an ancient Yemenite tradition: a gathering of= men, of poets,=0Adiscussing and reflecting on current issues, politics, ec= onomics,=0Asocial conditions and the local news and going ones via poetry.= =0AClinging strongly to ancient oral traditions, at the same time the=0Aglo= bal media and communication streams have not gone unnoticed, even=0Ahere in= the localized context of Southern Yemen. Remarkable though =E2=80=93=0Atho= ugh not so remarkable as you first might think, as shall be=0Aexplained lat= er on =E2=80=93 is that, in the light of increasing digitization=0Aand onli= ne media participation, the preferred means of recording and=0Aspreading th= ese poetic discourses and reflections for Yemenite poets is=0Athe audio cas= sette. The specific media attributes of the cassette tape=0Amakes them into= a strong moral weapon and communication and=0Adistribution device in a con= text of political and religious suppression=0Aand censorship.=0A=0ARead mor= e here: =0Ahttp://tinyurl.com/ydff26u=0A=0A=0AAll best and best wishes! =0A= Jeroen =0A=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 03:48:31 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: Art games In-Reply-To: <1dec21ae0912251531s4a7fc143rb73053fbf59dfc9d@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > By this argument "programmability" also has existed in the world for a > long > time. False. > *lopes doesn't find the "essence of computer art in computer games". he's > a > trained philosopher, so the word 'essence' is one he would use carefully. > you are making a lot of assumptions about his work and about what i think, > and you're generally quite far off base with them. he thinks of computer > games as instances of or examples of computer art. his definition of > computer art, as i mention in the review at > http://www.ciac.ca/magazine/compterendu.htm , is* > > You are right. I was reacting to his words in his interview with you. He > is > saying games are one kind of computer art, seguing into and implying by it > that "immersion," total absorption as in a game is a crucial aspect of > computer art. No, not a crucial part. His definition of computer art stresses interactivity. Doesn't say anything about immersion. > *"An item is a computer art work just in case (1) it's art, (2) it's run > on > a computer, (3) it's interactive, and (4) it's interactive because it's > run > on a computer" (p. 27)* > > Since the first three of these conditions can either exist outside a > computer (#'s 1 and 3) or can exist without being art (# 2), we are left > with the fourth: computer art is art whose interactivity is dependent on a > computer -a definition very similar to the definition of a computer game, > particularly if one adds the quality of "immersion," which Mr. Lopes seems > to do. It seems to me that he believes games are much nearer to something > I > would call essence of computer art than it appears on the surface. A lot of computer art is interactive without being a game. > *so it's a theory of interactive computer art. he's trying to get at the > important characteristics of art in which the computer is crucial as > medium. > it isn't a book about art that happens to be digital but could as well > appear in print or whatever. > * > Following my argument, one can easily make the statement: computer art is > a > kind of computer game. I am pretty sure you would not agree with that > statement. Correct. > I am less certain about Mr. Lopes. He does imply an similarity > (if not equality or even identity) between games and art created strictly > on > a computer. (Interestingly, he sees a continuity between games, chess, or > visual/verbal entertainment, comic books, outside a computer and on.) I > would be be interested in finding Mr. Lopes's reaction to the statement, > "computer art is a kind of computer game." If he disagrees with it, does > he > then not need to make the distinction between art and game part of his > definition of computer art. No, he doesn't. There's lots of interactive art that is not a game. > On my part, seeing computer art as a game, more > correctly as play, would be illuminating -a real insight into the > possibilities of computer, similar to seeing poetry as play of language > ("I > play at riches to ease the clamoring for gold." Emily Dickinson). Have a look at http://www.ciac.ca/magazine/perspective.htm , if you like, for relations between art and game. > *there are works, such as harold cohen's aaron, which lopes discusses in > his > book, that are not interactive but actually are works of computer art. so > lopes's definition of computer art is too narrrow to include all works of > computer art. but it's a very good book nonetheless because a clear > philosophy of interactive computer art is valuable. it *is* a theory of a > type of computer art, not a theory of work that isn't necessarily computer > art.* > > Does Lopes consider harold cohen's work not computer art then? His definition of computer art does not include this sort of work, ie, non-interactive work. But he discusses Cohen's work in his book as computer art. > I would be > very interested to see if Lopes accepts your criticism, that his > definition > is insufficient, or insists that in his view interactivity -in its > "immersiveness" something similar to a computer game- is integral to > computer art, a quality cohen's work does not possess. If he still insists > on his definition, in my view, his idea becomes more interesting. He liked my review. He said it took the philosophy further. > *to broaden the definition of 'computer art' to include work such as > cohen's > aaron, one needs to look at the role of programming in computer art, > because > programmability (not virtuality) is what distinguishes computers from > other > machines.* > We already have gone over this. Yes, but are you any clearer on it? All computers are programmable. That's what makes them computers. Your term 'virtuality' is vague. > Underlying your disquisition on time, there is a simple fact. If you are > claiming -and I am accepting your claim- that machines can, potentially at > least, reproduce all human thought -that machines can "think"- then you > have > to accept that machines can potentially develop a spirit -"have a > spiritual > life".- Unless, you want to claim that the spirit is something different, > separate, ineffable and inviolate, which I don't think you do. You can't > have it both ways. If machines can think (that there is nothing to prove > they can't), then, they can develop a spirit. Some of them may even start > believing in god. In other words, when one is creating, for instance, > images > of Anghor Wat in a computer art work, one can not see and accept those > images as flat, manipulated fodder in the hands of the artist's > "imagination" (his or her "spiritual life") but entities that, in/despite > their profound otherness, have their own autonomous "objectivity," their > "spiritual life." In other words, the enlightened openness you show > towards > the intellectual capabilities of the computer as machine -I have been > aware > of your long admiration for Turing's ideas- you must also show towards the > materials which enter a computer art work. Machines will probably be developed that 'think'. And are as complex (or more) as we are in their cognitive capacities. And, yes, at that point--or even sooner (cats and dogs and other animals are surely 'spiritual creatures' as well)--we will need to provide them status as sentient beings. But, Murat, that day is not here yet. Programming is not there yet. Or I haven't seen any indication of it, in any case. On my site, I have made various works I call 'animisms', defined as kinetic poetry with soul. That is mostly 'soul' as in 'lively'. The life of art is in liveliness, not 'artificial life' or 'artificial intelligence'. Lively art engages our own liveliness. Concerning the use of art work, I realize it's problematical to be using images from the Internet in dbCinema works. The whole issues of appropriation and intellectual property. I try to respect the images I use by creating good art with them. But, also, the concept of dbCinema as a langu(im)age processor and graphic synthesizer, a program where you type stuff in and it gets turned into images (via google image search) and then painterly cinema of those images, was just too tantalizing to me to resist. I am a moth to the light, on that one. Working with these global databases of images tied to language queries is just too good to resist, to me. As material for new art. > *But we can think of the current state as holding all the conditions for > the > development of 'thought' in computers. They can make decisions. They can > re-write their own code. They can have 'senses'. They can interpret the > information from their 'senses'. They can construct a world view. They are > language machines. And there is no proof, and probably never will be, that > there exist thought processes of which humans are capable and computers > are > not. Machine intelligence would undoubtedly be quite different from human > intelligence because the contexts of our existences are quite different. > We > have biological bodies and have evolved in ways quite different from how > computers 'evolve'. > > *Your sentence, "Machine intelligence would undoubtedly be quite different > from human intelligence because the contexts of our existences are quite > different. We have biological bodies and have evolved in ways quite > different from how computers 'evolve'", seems to contradict what you say > in > the previous part of this paragraph. I don't know what you mean. >What does "context of our existence" > mean for you? In fact, your approach systematically seems to avoid looking > at this broader "context," focusing basically on the possibilities of the > computer as a machine "to produce (human) art." If you had focused more on > the broader context, our discussions may have taken other turns. There seems to be quite a bit of agreement, Murat, about the idea that should machine 'consciousness' arise, as it likely will, that these intelligences will likely be quite different from our own. At first they might not have, for instance, bodies. That would be a significant difference in the context of their existence versus ours. My body tells me what to think all the time. And our bodies are of course crucial in how we come to see ourselves and the world. There are other things, of course, that inform how we come to see ourselves and the world. Other people, mostly. And culture. And so on. I doubt that the most interesting route to machine consciousness is to try to replicate human concsiousness. Instead, certain properties of human consciousness will be retained and be at the core of it, but other properties will be discarded as just not germane to the task (given the differences in context of existence) or even too hard or vague to replicate. And other properties will emerge from the programming that we may not have. > Your distinction between machine and biology is bogus. There is such a > thing > as a cyborg (at this moment only in our imagination as a possibility, no > doubt). The argument is the same. The film *Blade Runner* goes beautifully > and deeply into the relationship between the human and his replicant, > revealing that the question (physical, moral, political) of machine > intelligence is at bottom one with the question of otherness, of the human > ability to see, embrace the other. The beauty of *Film Runner* is that the > audience experiences it from the point of view, the "subjectivity," of > that > other, his/her/its -the cyborg's- "spiritual life," in terms of its facing > mortality. I like Blade Runner also. Maybe cyborgs will have bodies like ours. I certainly don't know. That is further away than machine intelligence. > (*Blade Runner* was the last great sci-fi movie which did not produce its > special effects digitally even though there are very few, if any, sci-fi > film which can match it in power and the potency of its images. A few > months > ago in this list I argued that this was so because the makers of *Blade > Runner* were forced to *choose* the effects that were *necessary*. This > leads to the question if there is something detrimental to the creation of > art in the mechanical fluidity of the computer as a medium. In an > interview > the film maker Jean Renoir says that an art form weakens -the term he uses > is "becomes decadent"- to the degree that its medium becomes more > efficient, > technically more advanced (one can find the interview in the specials > section of the DVD for the film *The French Cancan*). I made a similar > argument in my book *The Peripheral Space of Photography* where I argue > that > some of the most powerful things in 19th century photographs occur because > of the difficulties the early cameras had replicating the image of the > computer, "Intentional or not, the power of [these photographs] has > nothing > to do with painting but is integral to the nature and limitations of > photographic medium itself, involving not copying, but the 'perilous and > ambiguous process of reproduction' and the demands the photographic > subject > puts on the lens.") Well, again, I don't agree. As software and hardware tools for art evolve, it gets easier to produce a lot of crap. And there will be and already is lots. In every art. But real artists are able to engage our liveliness. Producing the same old stuff doesn't. Producing unnecessary work doesn't. The sense to follow one's own vision will not evaporate from the world with the invention of better tools. The tools will inform vision and sense, just as language does (language is a technology), but we all aren't mesmerized by buttons. > I don't see what is "utopian" about this view, or distopian, for that > matter. I never said they were going to make everything all better, and > neither does Lopes. > * > What is "utopian" about it is your naivety that computer art can be > approached solely in its own terms (as simply a product of technical > openings, inventions and possibilities) without reference to the context > within which it exists, how it is affected by the social and moral forces, > political and metaphysical ideas surrounding them and how it reflects, or > fails to do so, those forces. I don't think I do that. Simply because my work does not often deal with the military use of computers as weaponry does not mean it's without relation to such an issue. I try to create strong computer art. My work should be studied by student programmers as well as arts students. My work takes the art of programming to a different level. Student programmers need to know how programming is an art, not simply something for making business and military widgets. My work shows that, as programmers, we can aspire to the creation of strong art. And with that go certain atmospheres and notions of what's important. My work shows programmers can aspire to the creation of beautiful and good things for the world. Of course I am not alone in this. The existence of such work is important. Among other things, it helps people tell the difference. Would you have preferred Kandinsky to paint war pictures? I pursue art with all the strength and imagination at my disposal. If you don't like it, too bad. > * What he does say, and I agree with, is that computer art is a new form > of > art. By that I don't mean art that happens to be digital but could as well > appear in print or whatever, but art in which the computer is crucial as > medium. This doesn't make it better than other forms of art. It's > different. > It has what many people feel are exciting possibilities both by virtue of > its being relatively unexplored and also by virtue of the radical > possibilities computers offer. > > *Your definition actually contradicts Lopes's. As long as it is "crucial" > in > its production, if computer art can also appear in print or whatever, then > a > poem produced on a word processor can also be defined as computer art > (that > is exactly the dilemma Lopes is trying to avaid).* Your logic escapes me. > I'm happy to see a book written by a philosopher about computer art. It's > quite a different sort of book than the other ones I've read about > 'digital > art', 'internet art', 'digital poetry', and so on. He isn't looking for > the > social or literary (etc) significance of computer art. He's just looking > to > describe what it is. Which is valuable. Just the basics. Just the > fundamentals. * > > Does such "basics" (essence?) really exist? Isn't an art form always, from > its inception, entangled with its context? Interestingly, David in his > last > post picks on the "game" like structure of computer art which Lopes > observes > (something to do with that art's "basics") and shows the political > ramifications of such an approach. Read Lopes's book, Murat. You might see it differently if you actually read it. ja http://vispo.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 07:25:52 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jeffrey Side Subject: Re: our war Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" It's unfortunate that people still expect honesty and integrity from=20 politicians, when they are controlled by big business and arms=20 manufacturers.=20 On Fri, 25 Dec 2009 22:49:24 -0500, CA Conrad=20 wrote: >There is no escaping the fact that MANY OF US who voted for Obama=20 DID >NOT (I repeat) DID NOT vote for the escalation of war! But we did >UNKNOWINGLY vote for war, fooled by his grade-school vocabulary of >HOPE and CHANGE and BELIEVE, his Coca Cola ad campaign for=20 president. > >I for one DID NOT vote for Obama as an individual with an individual >political party, individual religious affiliation, or some other >bureaucratic individual's path to the State or Heaven. I instead >voted as a human being who HONESTLY believed that Obama would=20 not harm >the people of the world as did Bush. > >Part of our war includes the push for "gays in the military" as a >civil rights issue. I for one DO NOT believe for a second that there >is ANYTHING civil about the United States Military Industrial Complex. > And I am NOT interested in making the DEADLIEST war machine on=20 Earth >gay friendly! > >PLEASE take a moment to review (and possibly sign) this petition (this >is ALSO for straight people): >http://invasionanniversary.blogspot.com/ > >This is a very important issue, please join the fight. >Most sincerely, >CAConrad > >-- >PhillySound: new poetry http://PhillySound.blogspot.com > >THE BOOK OF FRANK by CAConrad http://CAConrad.blogspot.com > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check=20 guidelines & sub/unsub info:=20 http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 04:42:31 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jim Andrews Subject: City of the Mind MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is my Christmas present to you and my news of now. If you ask how it is for me, I can only answer with this. It is my pome for a new Vancouver of the mind. Soon I shall be o'ercome with Olympic music and stupifying acts of heroism in Vancouver. This is my respite already from the madness. My Vancouver of the mind. Your Vancouver of your mind. Your Vancouver of Google. Let us share hallucinations. Happy new year and wishes of many upcoming real realizations to you. ******************* CITY OF THE MIND ******************* dbCinema is a langu(im)age processor and graphic synthesizer. Install Shockwave first from http://vispo.com/sw if you haven't already. Mac users need to use Firefox. VANCOUVER http://tinyurl.com/yae64lz In dbCinema, synthesis is an act of the mind working at the suggestion of an unusual form of collage. Language to image to multi-perspectival cinema. A visual word processor/dictionary exploring the meaning of "Vancouver" via Google image search and cross-breeding with generative art. Slideshow run amok to slidvid, dbCinemation. The mind, of its own accord, creates a new Vancouver made of current Vancouver. In this graphic synthesizer, you are the synthesizer. For synthesis is an act of the mind, not simply the technology. dbCinema collages. The mind synthesizes. In 'Vancouver', dbCinema collages with dynamic opacity in a star-shaped 'brush' moving randomly around the screen. The pictures seem to blend together to make new scenes that don't exist, and those new scenes are what is created in the act of the mind. It is not so much a futuristic Vancouver as a multi-perspectival interpenetration of things we've seen about and of Vancouver. It is for people who enjoy synthetic acts of the mind and tricks of the eye. Tricks of the eye are mostly tricks of the mind. dbCinema has no real tricks to it. It just mindlessly collages in ways that present images to us that readily trigger multi-perspectival synthesis in the mind. That synthesis is the real trip of this piece. It's DIY, in that sense. Imagination and synthesis required. Create this city as you will in your own mind. It's sometimes remarked that computer art too often feels enclosing, truncated in its possibilities and in its artistic range and quality. I think the main thing is to trigger imagination and synthesis, thought, reflection, creativity, joy, wonder, analysis, perceptual perspecuity on multiple perspectives, langu(im)agical textations, dbCinemations, and hallucinatory realizations. Click the canvas when you want it to do something else. But give it at least a couple of minutes first (or longer) just as-is without clicking. ja http://vispo.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 08:28:26 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Camille Martin Subject: new at Rogue Embryo Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 New on my blog: * "G" is for Genre: Maxine Chernoff's Todorov * Paris Metro * scattering dust is good practice * Baked Penguin (Reefer Plus) * Sonnets Redux http://rogueembryo.wordpress.com Cheers! Camille Camille Martin http://www.camillemartin.ca http://rogueembryo.wordpress.ca =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 15:20:14 +0100 Reply-To: argotist@fsmail.net Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jeffrey Side Subject: 'On the Necessity of Bad Reviews' by Adam Fieled at The Argotist Online Comments: To: British Poetics , Poetryetc MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 'On the Necessity of Bad Reviews' by Adam Fieled: http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Fieled%20essay.htm ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 16:05:06 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Elizabeth Switaj Subject: Re: 'On the Necessity of Bad Reviews' by Adam Fieled at The Argotist Online In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Why is hard inherently better than soft? Why must rigor be expressed in terms of conflict? Elizabeth Kate Switaj www.elizabethkateswitaj.net 2009/12/28 Jeffrey Side 'On the Necessity of Bad Reviews' by Adam Fieled: > http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Fieled%20essay.htm > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 11:55:50 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: 'On the Necessity of Bad Reviews' by Adam Fieled at The Argotist Online Comments: To: poesis@GMAIL.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Anne Carson has a great essay on gender and boundaries in ancient Greece, = "Putting Her in Her Place: Women, Dirt, and Desire" in Before Sexuality: = The Construction of Erotic Experience in the Ancient Greek World, eds. = David M. Halperin, John J. Winkler, and Froma Zeitlin (Princeton UP 1990). = It has been my touchstone in terms of understanding gendered subtexts to = evaluative terms, e.g., hard, soft, tight, loose, even rigorous. = Basically. the Greeks understood men as hard, tightly bounded, and I think = hot, and attributed positive connotations to these, to some extent = physically based, attributes. Women were understood as soft, oozing, and = cold, and these attributes were understood as inherently negative and also = threatening to the hard/tightly bounded masculine state. Women could make = men *too* hot, spill over, etc. Gender is the obvious subtext text of Adam Fieled's essay (if subtext can = blare), and as soon as I started it I hoped he would get to it but he = never did. Obviously the essay demands a candid definition of terms. Otherwise, = we're encouraged to slip towards the old Greek residues of what hard and = soft mean, without consciousness, assessment, argument, or examination. Mair=C3=A9ad >>> Elizabeth Switaj 12/28/09 11:05 AM >>> Why is hard inherently better than soft? Why must rigor be expressed in terms of conflict? Elizabeth Kate Switaj www.elizabethkateswitaj.net 2009/12/28 Jeffrey Side 'On the Necessity of Bad Reviews' by Adam Fieled: > http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Fieled%20essay.htm > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check = guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines= & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 21:06:47 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: 'On the Necessity of Bad Reviews' by Adam Fieled at The Argotist Online In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Fieled's words are familiar to anyone who went through the burgeoning "creative writing" discipline in the 1970s as an undergraduate. It was a discourse that had nothing to do with quality of writing but rather if you were "tough enough" to take harsh criticism you could be in the club. Needless to say, the teachers were men and the not-tough-enough students were usually women. And moreover, the work itself had to be "hard," not hard as in difficult, but hard as in "not sentimental," etc., you get the picture. Transparently gendered. Mairead Byrne wrote: > Anne Carson has a great essay on gender and boundaries in ancient Greece, "Putting Her in Her Place: Women, Dirt, and Desire" in Before Sexuality: The Construction of Erotic Experience in the Ancient Greek World, eds. David M. Halperin, John J. Winkler, and Froma Zeitlin (Princeton UP 1990). It has been my touchstone in terms of understanding gendered subtexts to evaluative terms, e.g., hard, soft, tight, loose, even rigorous. Basically. the Greeks understood men as hard, tightly bounded, and I think hot, and attributed positive connotations to these, to some extent physically based, attributes. Women were understood as soft, oozing, and cold, and these attributes were understood as inherently negative and also threatening to the hard/tightly bounded masculine state. Women could make men *too* hot, spill over, etc. > Gender is the obvious subtext text of Adam Fieled's essay (if subtext can blare), and as soon as I started it I hoped he would get to it but he never did. > Obviously the essay demands a candid definition of terms. Otherwise, we're encouraged to slip towards the old Greek residues of what hard and soft mean, without consciousness, assessment, argument, or examination. > Mairéad > > >>>> Elizabeth Switaj 12/28/09 11:05 AM >>> >>>> > Why is hard inherently better than soft? Why must rigor be expressed in > terms of conflict? > > Elizabeth Kate Switaj > www.elizabethkateswitaj.net > > 2009/12/28 Jeffrey Side > > 'On the Necessity of Bad Reviews' by Adam Fieled: > >> http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Fieled%20essay.htm >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines >> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 21:12:56 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Maria Damon Subject: wieners permissions Comments: To: Theory and Writing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all (with apologies for x-posting): Has anyone had any luck with getting permission to cite John Wieners material since his death? Apparently his estate is in legal limbo and Godine believes that it does not have the right to grant permission, nor does anyone else except for the largely indifferent family. Any advice? bests md ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 14:27:29 +1100 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: 'On the Necessity of Bad Reviews' by Adam Fieled at The Argotist Online In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for this sensible observation, Mairead. I did have trouble following the imagery, although it might have been because I got the giggles. Am I to take it that those big hard macho "masters" keep screwing their submissive "slaves" to keep them "soft", guaranteeing distressing incontinence all round? But where do those hard masters come from, then, if all those upandcoming submissive slave-poets are pounded into softness by their masters' hard phalluses? Parthonogenesis? (I thought that was an aspect of femaleness). Or are those impressively adamantine masters just immortal and forever? Or do the screwed become the screwers at some indefinable point, like baby crayfish getting new shells? Or what? I was also curious about the source for this statistic: "Liberal poets, I have found, are 30% more genuinely liberal than conservative poets, and 70% as pigheaded, domineering, and coercive." Gracious. Sorry. It's too easy to keep shooting fish in a bucket, and I'm at a loose end. Fwiw, I am all for rigorous (which is not a synonym for negative) criticism, as a reader and writer, and have been as critical of the puff-review culture as anyone. Which is probably why I'm more likely to found in the theatre these days. xA On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 3:55 AM, Mairead Byrne wrote: > Anne Carson has a great essay on gender and boundaries in ancient Greece,= "Putting Her in Her Place: Women, Dirt, and Desire" in Before Sexuality: T= he Construction of Erotic Experience in the Ancient Greek World, eds. David= M. Halperin, John J. Winkler, and Froma Zeitlin (Princeton UP 1990). =A0It= has been my touchstone in terms of understanding gendered subtexts to eval= uative terms, e.g., hard, soft, tight, loose, even rigorous. =A0Basically. = the Greeks understood men as hard, tightly bounded, and I think hot, and at= tributed positive connotations to these, to some extent physically based, a= ttributes. =A0Women were understood as soft, oozing, and cold, and these at= tributes were understood as inherently negative and also threatening to the= hard/tightly bounded masculine state. =A0Women could make men *too* hot, s= pill over, etc. > Gender is the obvious subtext text of Adam Fieled's essay (if subtext can= blare), and as soon as I started it I hoped he would get to it but he neve= r did. > Obviously the essay demands a candid definition of terms. =A0Otherwise, w= e're encouraged to slip towards the old Greek residues of what hard and sof= t mean, without consciousness, assessment, argument, or examination. > Mair=E9ad > >>>> Elizabeth Switaj 12/28/09 11:05 AM >>> > Why is hard inherently better than soft? Why must rigor be expressed in > terms of conflict? > > Elizabeth Kate Switaj > www.elizabethkateswitaj.net > > 2009/12/28 Jeffrey Side > > 'On the Necessity of Bad Reviews' by Adam Fieled: >> http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Fieled%20essay.htm >> >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guideli= nes >> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > --=20 Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 20:33:18 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Paul Nelson Subject: Re: 'On the Necessity of Bad Reviews' by Adam Fieled at The Argotist Online In-Reply-To: <26129508.278971262010014016.JavaMail.www@wwinf3702> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Jeffrey, Thanks for this link. Of course, Adam is right in his assertion that there needs to be more real criticism in the literary community. But his essay is riddled with weak language and abstractions. While I don't expect scientific data, the notion that 70% of liberal poets are "pigheaded" offers no substance whatsoever. The difference between "hardness" and "softness" isn't any more clear. Similarly, he discusses the notion of poetry "success" without giving the reader a sense of how he defines that. Is it publication? Awards? Or something less tangible (& less timely) like being read 100 years after one's death, a skillful use of language, or innovation. (He could cite examples of those poets he feels are successful.) Finally, along the same lines, I reject the notion that we should either understand what he means by "teeth, bite and guts" or expect something equally abstract, which he refers to in the pejorative as "academic." What are concrete examples of teeth, bite and guts? Certainly this essay, based on such an interesting premise, fails the criteria it claims to require. Feliz Ano. Paul Paul E. Nelson Global Voices Radio SPLAB! C. City, WA 206.422.5002 ________________________________ From: Jeffrey Side To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Mon, December 28, 2009 6:20:14 AM Subject: 'On the Necessity of Bad Reviews' by Adam Fieled at The Argotist Online 'On the Necessity of Bad Reviews' by Adam Fieled: http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Fieled%20essay.htm ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 22:38:47 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Herb Levy Subject: Re: our war In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) I'm not anymore in favor of Obama's plans to escalate the war in Afghanistan than you seem to be, but to say that Obama somehow ran as a secret warmonger is simply a sign that you weren't paying attention to what Obama was repeatedly and consistently saying in his foreign policy speeches. While he was still a Senator, Obama gave several speeches and co- sponsored legislation in support of the Afghanistan war. While he was running for the Democratic nomination and while he was running for president, every time he spoke about foreign policy, he made clear distinctions between the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and was just as clear that he would focus on winning the war in Afghanistan. Look up his foreign policy speeches, it's all there. It's not Obama's fault if voters simply assumed that because he was generally running as a liberal that he a pacifist or against the wars in both Iraq and Afghanistan. He was very clear about his position on the war in Afghanistan. Bests, Herb On Dec 25, 2009, at 9:49 PM, CA Conrad wrote: > There is no escaping the fact that MANY OF US who voted for Obama DID > NOT (I repeat) DID NOT vote for the escalation of war! But we did > UNKNOWINGLY vote for war, fooled by his grade-school vocabulary of > HOPE and CHANGE and BELIEVE, his Coca Cola ad campaign for president. > > I for one DID NOT vote for Obama as an individual with an individual > political party, individual religious affiliation, or some other > bureaucratic individual's path to the State or Heaven. I instead > voted as a human being who HONESTLY believed that Obama would not harm > the people of the world as did Bush. > > Part of our war includes the push for "gays in the military" as a > civil rights issue. I for one DO NOT believe for a second that there > is ANYTHING civil about the United States Military Industrial Complex. > And I am NOT interested in making the DEADLIEST war machine on Earth > gay friendly! > > PLEASE take a moment to review (and possibly sign) this petition (this > is ALSO for straight people): > http://invasionanniversary.blogspot.com/ > > This is a very important issue, please join the fight. > Most sincerely, > CAConrad > > -- > PhillySound: new poetry http://PhillySound.blogspot.com > > THE BOOK OF FRANK by CAConrad http://CAConrad.blogspot.com > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 03:38:17 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David Kirschenbaum Subject: The Portable Boog Reader 4 Online PDF Now Available Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please forward ---------------- Hi all, Sommer Browning, Joanna Fuhrman, Urayo=E1n Noel, and I have gathered =20 work from 48 New York City poets. Cathy Eisenhower and Maureen Thorson =20= have gathered work from 24 D.C. metro area poets. Put them togetherm =20 and we have The Portable Boog Reader 4: An Anthology of New York City =20= and D.C. Metro Area Poetry, which is now available online at: http://welcometoboogcity.com/boogpdfs/bc61.pbr4.pdf The physical copy will be available at our drop spots listed below =20 throughout the East Village and other parts of lower Manhattan, and =20 Greenpoint and Williamsburg, Brooklyn as of tomorrow, Wednesday. We=92re all very happy to share this great work and to have an anthology = =20 available to so many people for free. The 72 contributors are: N.Y.C. Andrea Baker * Macgregor Card * Lydia Cortes * Cynthia Cruz * Pam Dick =20= * Mary Donnelly Will Edmiston * Laura Elrick * Farrah Field * Kristen Gallagher * =20 Sarah Gambito Aracelis Girmay * John Godfrey * Odi Gonzales * Myronn Hardy * Mark =20 Horosky Brenda Iijima * Ivy Johnson * Boni Joi * Hettie Jones * Pierre Joris * =20= Steven Karl Vincent Katz * Jennifer L. Knox * Wayne Koestenbaum * Estela Lamat * =20 Mark Lamoureux Ada Limon * Sheila Maldonado * Jesus Papoleto Melendez * Susan Miller =20= * Stephen Motika Marc Nasdor * Charles North * Jeni Olin * Cecily Parks * Nicole =20 Peyrafitte * Mariana Ruiz Lytle Shaw * Laura Sims * Mark Statman * Nicole Steinberg * Yerra =20 Sugarman Anne Waldman * Jared White * Dustin Williamson * Jeffrey Cyphers =20 Wright * John Yau D.C. Sandra Beasley * Leslie Bumsted * Theodora Danylevich * Tina Darragh * =20= Buck Downs Lynne Dreyer * Wade Fletcher * Joe Hall * Ken Jacobs * Charles Jensen =20= * Doug Lang Reb Livingston * Magus Magnus * David McAleavey * Mark McMorris * =20 Chris Nealon Mel Nichols * Phyllis Rosenzweig * Casey Smith * Rod Smith * Ward Tietz Ryan Walker * Joan Wilcox * Terence Winch To view the past two years' anthologies: http://welcometoboogcity.com/boogpdfs/bc53.pbr3.pdf http://welcometoboogcity.com/boogpdfs/bc47.pdf Happy New Year. as ever, David ----- Please patronize our advertisers: Bellevue Literary Review * http://www.blreview.org Howl Festival * http://www.eastvillagehowler.blogspot.com/ Kelsey Street Press * http://www.kelseyst.com/ Litmus Press/Aufgabe * http://www.litmuspress.org/ tawil productions * http://www.tawilproductions.com/ The Poetry Project * http://poetryproject.org/ The Teachers Voice * http://www.the-teachers-voice.org/index.html Vanitas * http://www.vanitasmagazine.net/ ----- Advertising or donation inquiries can be directed to editor@boogcity.com or by calling 212-842-BOOG (2664) ----- Thanks to Jesse Schoen for the sweet cover design ------ 2,750 copies of Boog City are distributed among, and available for =20 free at, the following locations: MANHATTAN East Village Sunshine Theater * 143 E. Houston St. (bet. 1st & 2nd Avenues) Bluestockings * 172 Allen St. (bet. Stanton & Rivington sts.) Pianos * 158 Ludlow St. (bet. Stanton and Rivington sts.) Living Room * 154 Ludlow St. (bet. Stanton and Rivington sts.) Cake Shop * 152 Ludlow St. (bet. Stanton and Rivington sts.) --Bowery Poetry Club * 308 Bowery (bet. Houston & Bleecker sts.) Think Coffee * 1 Bleecker St. (@ Bowery) Trash and Vaudeville (upstairs) * 4 St. Mark=92s Pl. (bet. 2nd & 3rd =20= aves.) Mission Caf=E9 * 82 Second Ave. (bet. 4th & 5th sts.) Anthology Film Archives * 32 Second Ave. (bet. 1st & 2nd sts.) --Sidewalk Caf=E9 * 94 Avenue A (bet. 6th & 7th sts.) --Nuyorican Poets Caf=E9 * 236 E. 3rd St. (bet. Avenues B & C) Lakeside Lounge * 162 Avenue B (bet. 10th & 11th sts.) Life Caf=E9 * 343 E. 10th St. (bet. Avenues A & B) St. Mark=92s Books * 31 Third Ave. (bet. St. Mark=92s Pl. & 9th St.) --St. Mark=92s Church * 131 E.10th St. (bet. 2nd & 3rd aves.) Lower Manhattan Acme Underground * 9 Great Jones St. (bet. Broadway & Lafayette St.) Shakespeare & Co. * 716 Broadway (bet. Waverly & Astor places) Other Music * 15 E. 4th St. (bet. Broadway & Lafayette St.) Angelika Film Center * 18 W. Houston St. (bet. Broadway & Mercer St.) Think Coffee * 248 Mercer St. (bet. W. 4th and W. 3rd sts.) Mercer Street Books * 206 Mercer St. (bet. Bleecker & Houston sts.) Housing Works Cafe 126 Crosby St. (East Houston & Prince sts.) McNally Jackson * 52 Prince St. (bet. Mulberry & Lafayette sts.) Hotel Chelsea * 222 W. 23rd St. (bet. 7th & 8th aves.) BROOKLYN Greenpoint Greenpoint Coffee House * 195 Franklin St. (bet. Freeman & Green sts.) Thai Caf=E9 * 925 Manhattan Ave. (bet. Kent St. & Greenpoint Ave.) Matchless * 557 Manhattan Ave. (bet. Nassau and Driggs aves.) Champion Coffe * 1108 Manhattan Ave. (bet. Clay & DuPont sts.)=09 Williamsburg Sideshow Gallery * 319 Bedford Ave. (bet. S.2nd & S.3rd sts.) Supercore Caf=E9 * 305 Bedford Ave. (bet. S.1st & S.2nd sts.) Spoonbill & Sugartown * 218 Bedford Ave. (bet. N.4th & N.5th sts.) Bliss Caf=E9 * 191 Bedford Ave. (bet. N.6th & N.7th sts.)=09 Spike Hill * 184 Bedford Ave. (bet. N.6th & N.7th sts.)=09 Soundfix/Fix Cafe * 110 Bedford Ave. (at N.11th St.) -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W. 28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://welcometoboogcity.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) To subscribe free to The December Podcast: = http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=3D3431698= 80 For music from Gilmore boys: http://www.myspace.com/gilmoreboysmusic= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 06:37:26 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Comments: RFC822 error: Invalid RFC822 field - "Bill Knott may be fighting the old battles everyone else ignores, but th=". Rest of header flushed. From: steve russell Subject: Bill Knott's Prose Blog MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0ABill Knott may be fighting the old battles everyone else ignores, but th= e computer comment --=0A=0A=0AMonday, December 21, 2009 =0Acreatively unori= ginal *=0A=E2=80=94is Lowell=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9CImitations=E2=80=9D a model= for the cre=C2=ADatively uno=C2=ADrig=C2=ADi=C2=ADnal era some perfs and p= rofs are hail=C2=ADing the advent of . . .=0A=0Aif all verse con=C2=ADsists= of vari=C2=ADant recom=C2=ADbi=C2=ADna=C2=ADtions of past verse, as the fi= rst pla=C2=ADgia=C2=ADrist Orpheus liked to claim, then=0A=0Aaren=E2=80=99t= Lowell=E2=80=99s bril=C2=ADliant recon=C2=ADfig=C2=ADu=C2=ADra=C2=ADtions = of Leop=C2=ADardi et al=0A=0Ato be espe=C2=ADcially admired and emulated=E2= =80=94=0A=0Abut can anybody/everybody follow his exam=C2=ADple with equal s= uccess=E2=80=94=0A=0Aor is it Lowell=E2=80=99s unique expertise/craft/handl= ing that makes these trans=C2=ADla=C2=ADtions so brilliant=E2=80=94?=0A=0A(= con=C2=ADcep=C2=ADtion or exe=C2=ADcu=C2=ADtion? con=C2=ADtent or form? Koo= ns or Hock=C2=ADney?)=0A=0Ayou can=E2=80=99t down=C2=ADload his tal=C2=ADen= ts, or at least not yet=E2=80=94=0A=0Aas brilliant young poet and criticMic= hael=0ARob=C2=ADbins observes of Lowell: =E2=80=9Che could sculpt a stanza = with a=0Apre=C2=ADci=C2=ADsion of tone, dic=C2=ADtion, imagery, sound, & me= ter. . . =E2=80=9D=0A=0Amaybe stanza-=E2=80=8Bsculpting soft=C2=ADware will= per=C2=ADform that task for poets in the near future?=0A=0Alet the app do = the cot=C2=ADtage indus=C2=ADtrial dirty=C2=ADwork of composition=E2=80=94= =0A=0Acom=C2=ADput=C2=ADers can already prob=C2=ADa=C2=ADbly write more ski= l=C2=ADfully than most poets . . .=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 11:28:34 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: CA Conrad Subject: Re: our war MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Dear Jeffrey in my attempt to not be cynical I voted for Obama. I now truly feel STRAPPED to those 30,000 guns headed across the ocean. This is personal now. It's mine. It belongs to everyone who wanted peace and voted for him. It belongs to the Nobel Prize committee as well (I TRULY WISH that they had found the courage to take it back from him). Obama is just another war president now. And I have voted for the last time in a presidential election. Let the voters taste the blood without me. The most consistent argument against me though for my petition "gays against gays in the military" is that I'm not thinking about jobs for the poor. Oh yes I have been thinking about that, coming from a military family, being THE ONLY grandchild of who has not joined a branch of the service at some point. I'm being interviewed later today by Flash News by a reporter who saw the petition, and I've prepared the following statement as I'm sure the argument for jobs will once again be used: GAYS IN THE MILITARY IS A CLASS ISSUE? I AGREE, BUT IN A VERY DIFFERENT WAY THAN MOST "Gays in the military" is about jobs for poorer gays and lesbians? War is a scourge upon the poor, no matter which side of the battlefield. If you are on the side that is winning you're being used as fodder to win, your very life expendable, while the rich and their children wait for you to do their dirty work. Nothing but misery awaits the poor on both sides. In the end saying that "gays in the military" is defending the rights of poor, disadvantaged gays and lesbians is actually defending centuries of belief that only the lives of the rich are worth living, worth educating, and kept from harm. By saying you are protecting the poor in this issue you are upholding the rich and their deplorable way of life by either making the poor defend their kingdom or invade and plunder another. I am nothing but suspicious of the class values of anyone who uses the argument that supporting "gays in the military" is about protecting jobs for the poor. I am a gay man who is not interested in the LGBT and queer community assimilating into the larger mainstream culture and its structures of brutality. I want the LGBT and queer community to say we are better than that, and will lead by example rather than following blindly and passively. I want us to say that we will nurture our poor with aid when they are hungry and homeless, and provide scholarships for GED's and higher education. I want us to say we are breaking from the ranks of the food chain of war and poverty. CAConrad GAYS AGAINST GAYS IN THE MILITARY (this petition is for straight people too): http://invasionanniversary.blogspot.com/ -- PhillySound: new poetry http://PhillySound.blogspot.com THE BOOK OF FRANK by CAConrad http://CAConrad.blogspot.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 11:42:56 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: CA Conrad Subject: Re: 'On the Necessity of Bad Reviews' by Adam Fieled at The Argotist Online MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 To be frank I NEVER FINISH A BOOK if I don't like it. And I believe most people do the same, even reviewers, so I wonder if the reviewer who has not finished a book deserves to review it at all? Especially for poetry. I say this because sometimes I read a couple poems that BLOW MY MIND in a book, but don't care for the rest of the poems. If there are a few poems, even ONE POEM getting me excited about poetry and spurring me into that marvelous place only poetry can make for me, then I feel it's my duty to give that book 5 out of 5 stars. But then I only review books on Goodreads, as I'm not a scholar or a critic, I'm a poet. I use Goodreads as a way of shouting out for the poetry I love. Let judging the whole book be left for the novelists. I don't read novels and don't care, CAConrad -- PhillySound: new poetry http://PhillySound.blogspot.com THE BOOK OF FRANK by CAConrad http://CAConrad.blogspot.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 09:34:40 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Brian Stefans Subject: Los Angeles Poetry PDFs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've been posting a series of scans of poetry books from Los Angeles = over the past century. Most of these are long out of print, or by = authors that don't have national (or even local) reputations. All of = this is part of a research project I'm working on of avant-garde or = experimental (or just unusual) poetic practice here in Los Angeles. An = introduction to this project can be found on my blog: http://www.arras.net/fscIII/?p=3D530 And these pages have links to the PDFs themselves: http://www.arras.net/fscIII/?p=3D681 http://www.arras.net/fscIII/?p=3D744 Here are the very brief introductions to the PDFs that appear on the = blog: Los Angeles Poetry I (Villiers Publications Ltd., London: 1958) Edited by James Boyer May, Thomas McGrath and Peter Yates.=20 This is the representative collection by what I loosely call the HUAC = generation - both McGrath and Edwin Rolfe (who doesn't appear here) were = either fired or blacklisted due to their political views, and others in = the collection were affected by McCarthy-era madness. An interesting = study and anthology of this group of poets (though not including the = avant-garde or non-political ones) is Poets of the Non-Existent City: = Los Angeles in the McCarthy Era, by Estelle Gershgoren Novak. Included in this collection is a weird, Joycean poem by the eccentric = Philadelphia writer Gil Orlovitz (who frequented Hollywood as an a = screenwriter; CA Conrad is a big fan, and you can read about him on = Conrad's blog), poems by surreal, experimental photographer Edmund = Teske, a large slab of McGrath's Letter to an Imaginary Friend devoted = to the pleasures of sex, early work by the well-known poet and teacher = Ann Stanford, and spare, compelling work by Josephine Ain, who doesn't = seem to have written much but whose name appears frequently in the = literature on the period.=20 Other poets include: Melissa Blake, Guy Daniels, Gene Frumkin, Sid = Gershgoren, Stanley Kiesel, Bert Meyers, William Pillin, Lawrence P. = Spingam, Zack Walsh, Mel Weisburd, Peter Yates, Curtis Zahn - I don't = know much about these poets except that Bert Meyers has a collected = poems titled In a Dybbuk's Raincoat.=20 This anthology is a testament to the impact of the Thomas McGrath, who = lived here for ten years, on the Los Angeles poetry world, since nothing = of comparable scope was published for a few decades.=20 James Boyer May, Selected Poems 1950-1955 (Inferno Press: San Francisco, 1955) I'm quite mystified by James Boyer May. He's best known as the editor of = Trace, a small press journal that reviewed and charted the progress of = small press journals worldwide. A chapter of the book Mavericks: Nine = Independent Publishers is devoted to him (along with the likes of James = McLaughlin and John Martin), though I haven't read it yet.=20 The idiom in these poems is unlike anything I've come across in American = poetry, though it does have a strange resemblance to certain British = poets such as those associated with "Cambridge" writing - a high tone = that is open to vulgarities, a careful, tradition-wary metrical = precision, a moral earnestness, a syntactic and lexicographical density, = even a tendency toward Hopkins-esque word-clusters - though May was born = and raised in Los Angeles. "Incredibly, ideals of bomb-feared noons - / = here, violent blooms should scintillate, / men supplicate annihilative = plans." (from "Ossia").=20 May, due to his connection with Villiers (see above), helped Ginsberg = publish the first edition of Howl in the UK, which in turn led to the = books being confiscated in mail on the way back.=20 John Thomas, Epopoeia and The Decay of Satire (The Red Hill Press: Los Angeles & Fairfax, 1976) Now here's a difficult case: an undeniably excellent poet who died in = prison, serving a sentence for having molested his daughter; a poet = whose early work seems to show a visionary breadth and bounding = imagination, but who barely published any new poems (or republished, = times over, older poems) during the latter part of his life; and a poet = Charles Bukowski called "the best unread poet in America" whose style = synthesized elements of the most opaque of Olson's Maximus poems or the = collage aesthetic of the Tennis Court Oath (but who was also, at times, = sexually frank, morally unambiguous in his amorality, and could tell a = good story, like a West Venice West Georges Battaille).=20 Outside of this small group (most of which also appear in his first = collection, called John Thomas), Thomas published a chapbook of poems = called Nevertheless in 1990, and contributed to the excellent volume = Abandoned Latitudes (with Paul Vangelisti and Robert Crosson) in 1983. A = good, if not probing, obituary was published in the UK Independent; a = much more detailed, and harrowing, account of his personality by his = daughter, Gabrielle Idlet, appeared a little later in the LA Weekly.=20 Michelle T. Clinton, High Blood /Pressure (West End Press: Los Angeles, 1986) I don't know much about Michelle T. Clinton - there's almost nothing on = the internet about her - except that she doesn't live in Los Angeles = anymore, and that she has a second volume of poetry, Good Sense & The = Faithless, also from West End Press (1994). She's also recorded a spoken = word cassette called "Black Angeles" (1988) with Wanda Coleman, who = writes that Clinton's poems are "exorcisms - the rootings out of racism = and sexism." I thought of her as a sort of female Etheridge Knight at first, as some = of the poems reminded me of Knight's "Hard Rock Returns To Prison From = The Hospital For The Criminal Insane," with its anecdotal focus on the = most hidden parts of society, occasional use of Black English, and = somewhat nihilistic underlying bphilosophy. But Clinton's poetry is far = more interesting - less "literary" (following through on that distrust = of the "literary" that runs through much of Los Angeles poetry) though = formally quite precise and refined. These poems, unsettling as they can = be (and funny also) are packed with an amazing energy, frankness and = skill, not to mention searing anger. Bob Flanagan and David Trinidad, A Taste of Honey (Cold Calm Press: Los Angeles, 1990) Bob Flanagan is best known as a performance artist, cystic fibrosis = sufferer, and subject of the documentary Sick: The Life & Death of Bob = Flanagan, Supermasochist (view his Super Cystic Fibrosis Song for a = taste of that). David Trinidad is best known as David Trinidad, = well-known New York poet. But in their younger years they were hanging = out at Beyond Baroque with Dennis Cooper, Amy Gerstler and the teenaged = Kim Rosenfield and publishing with Cooper's press Little Caesar (follow = the link for full issues). This is a really enjoyable little volume - 12 poems of 36 lines each, = and in iambic pentameter! It has some bof the crazed feel of the = Berrigan/Padgett collaborations but with a distinctly LA setting. The = formal constraint gets you trying to read the poems as monologues (in = the manner of, say, Browning), and brings them to a level that Flanagan, = in his short, difficult life, was able to achieve in his solo poems (but = more on that later). The cover image, a combined portrait of the two authors, looks a little = to me like David Carradine. Bob Flanagan, The Kid is the Man (Bomb Shelter Press, 1978) Early poems by an artist better known for his extremely masochistic = performance work, written around the time when he was hanging out at = Beyond Baroque with the Little Caesar crowd. I posted a later = collaboration of Flanagan and David Trinidad, A Taste of Honey, = elsewhere on this blog. Abandoned Latitudes, by Robert Crosson, John Thomas and Paul Vangelisti (Red Hill Press, 1983) This is a very excellent and various collection of writing by the three = authors. Crosson is an under-appreciated Los Angeles poet who writes in = a sort of fictional quilt style, which is to say, it is very much = "collage" work but based on his own skewed narrative imagination. = Selections of his Daybooks were recently published by Otis = Books/Seismicity Editions. Paul Vangelisti, of course, was the editor of Invisible City, an = important journal of poetry from the seventies and eighties (among other = several other excellent editing and translation ventures before and = since) and is a prolific poet whose selected poems, Embarrassment of = Survival, appeared in 2001. Here is an interesting video of his recent = interview with Ezra Pound's daughter, Mary de Rachewiltz. I posted a collection of John Thomas's poetry elsewhere in this blog. = This "unfinished" prose sequence is by turns beautiful and harrowing, = sounding at times like Bruce Chatwin's In Patagonia and George = Bataille's The Story of the Eye. It also reminds me a bit of that Jack = Nicholson movie Five Easy Pieces, though I don't know why - I guess I = keep expecting Toni Basil to appear suddenly in it. William J. Margolis, The Anteroom of Hell (Inferno Press, 1957) These poems can seem, at times, like a parody of typical "Beat" poetry = of the time; as the title of the book suggests, it is full of visionary, = stream-of-consciousness condemnations of conformity and modern life, as = well as lofty, faintly archaic paeans to love. There's more than a bit = of Gregory Corso and Arthur Rimbaud traipsing around these pages, though = without the humor; Jim Morrison probably read this as a teen.=20 It's actually a pretty enjoyable read, especially given the historical = context, as the author was a key figure in the Venice West scene and a = occasional collaborator with Wallace Berman on Semina. The book itself = is a beautifully printed, which might come through in the .pdf, or not.=20 Guy de Cointet, A Few Drawings (1975) I posted a video of Guy de Cointet's theater on Youtube. There are = actually several great resources about this French-born Los Angeles = artist on the web, such as here and here and here and here, as well as a = cache of .pdf reprints of various essays and reviews about his work. I = also posted a photo and brief intro to his work elsewhere.=20 This collection of "drawings," which are really more like concrete or = visual poems and are quite hilarious, confirms for me the rightness of = calling de Cointet a "poet" (even if, in this time of conceptual = literature, I hardly have to break a sweat to make that argument). A = full list of his compelling, but extremely expensive to procure, = publications can be seen here.=20 Dennis Cooper, The Missing Men (Am Here Books/Immediate Editions, 1981) A really beautiful, simply but elegantly produced collection of early = poems and very short fictions by the well-known author Dennis Cooper. = Cooper's own website suggests that all of the issues of his seminal = journal Little Caesar appear online in pdf form, but this turns out not = to be the case, though I do love the first page of the first issue which = lays out their editorial philosophy:=20 In Paris ten year old boys clutching well worn copies of Apollonaire's = ALCOOLS put their hands over their mouths in amazement before paintings = by Renoir and Monet. Bruce Lee movies close in three days. This could = happen here. Peter Levitt, Running Grass (Eidolon Editions. 1979) I don't know much about Peter Levitt, but found his poems in a couple of = Bill Mohr anthologies and appreciated them for their quietness, formal = integrity and detail. From what I know, he is living in the Bay area = now, but certainly lived a great portion of his younger years in L.A. = This book has a nice, short introduction by Robert Creeley. Stuart Perkoff, Love is the Silence (Red Hill Press, 1975) Ah, Stuart Perkoff. probably the most well-known of the many poets in = Los Angeles who never fully realized their talent (Nora May French being = the first). He figures prominently in Lawrence Lipton's The Holy = Barbarians (several photographs of him appear in the appendix, along = with the likes of Los Angeles residents Lawrence Ferlinghetti and = Kenneth Rexroth. haha, that's another story), as well as in the later, = very interesting scholarly study of the Los Angeles arts scene in the = sixties, Venice West: The Beat Generation in Southern California, by = John Arthur Maynard.=20 Even better, though, is that he is the one Los Angeles poet to appear in = Donald Allen's New American Poetry in 1960, and his collected poems, = Voices of the Lady, was published by the National Poetry Foundation in = 1998, though now appears out of print.=20 This selection was made by Perkoff and Paul Vangelisti a few years = before Perkoff's death. Like the poetry of Margolis, it might seem a bit = dated in style, but in fact, after a few reads, Perkoff's distinct = personality, which is not lacking humor or irony, and the sureness and = playfulness of his formal talents come through. Olson was a big fan, and = in some ways, he's kind of like the West Coast Paul Blackburn.=20 I really enjoy this book for the image it gives me of some aspects of = life at Venice Beach in that time of oil derricks, "jazz canto" and = extensive drug use - by turns "existential" in its despair but cosmic, = infused with a giddy, bohemian light. (Well, I'll give describing his = poetry another shot later.) Phivos Delphis, Modern Greek Poems Translated by James Boyer May (Villiers Publications, 1954) Just throwing this up for you James Boyer May fans. I don't know much = about the poet he is translating, but though these "versions" are a bit = archaic and stiff sounding, they fit together another piece of the = puzzle of this nearly unknown poet. I put his Selected Poems: 1950-1955 = on this blog earlier. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 14:34:08 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Sarah Sarai Subject: Re: 'On the Necessity of Bad Reviews' by Adam Fieled at The Argotist Online Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" I'm sure sure what this essay states. Reviews should be honest? Poetry is= a=20 tough gig? M.F.A. programs can foster imbecilic schools of style and=20 consequently, trifles of poetry? Did an editor challenge Fieled to clari= fy with=20 example? Any example?=20 I direct everyone's attention to Eric Miles Williamson's *Oakland, Jack L= ondon,=20 and Me.=94 (Texas Univer. Press, I believe) Williamson tears into rampant= back=20 patting and cronyism AND provides example after example=97in poetry and=20= fiction. Though he doesn't use the word =93soft=94 (HUH?) Williamson migh= t=20 suggest ivy league upper class esthetes are the softies. In the meantime, until you want to opine on the state of poetry or poetry= =20 reviews by means of example and fresh vigorous writing, you can't expect = me=20 to be enlightened or ennobled. Well, you can try. And I do give you cred= it for=20 trying. I think this essay is an early draft. I think there are more an= d far=20 better versions of it to come. Besides which, as much as I detest the poetry elite=97and there is one an= d I=20 live in its epicenter (NYC)--I still think we can go easy on ourselves.=20= Note that two of my poems, *Part 1 of 2 Parts: Every Day I Write God a=20= Letter by Way Of Maintaining Connection & Lessening Rage* and *Part 2= of 2=20 Parts: Background to =93Every Day I Write God a Letter by Way of Maintain= ingg=20 Connection & Lessening Rage=94 touch on what it feels like to be over= looked,=20 talked over, ignored in graduate school (the softest program in the count= ry =96 I=20 got my degree in 3 sem. & got out of my 2nd workshop---yuk (fiction t= hough I=20 took poetryr classes too). (One friend said those poems are about 'becomi= ng a=20 writer.') It may be that there are more people writing review than there should be.= In=20 other words, not as many writers have the analytical licks or discernment= as=20 write reviews. Sure. The value of quotes from such (or any reviews),=20 however, can only help a poet. The idea is to help a poet.=20 DISCLAIMER: C. 3 months ago I sent Adam my book to review then asked=20 three times if he received it. He has never replied. All for the best an= d I'm=20 getting reviewed. I'm happy. Here's Jee Leong Koh's review. Others are o= ut=20 there and more forthcoming. ( I think the brilliant Geoffrey Gatza archiv= es=20 them at Blazevox-- http://www.blazevox.org/bk-ss2.htm -- I have to check.= ) http://jeeleong.blogspot.com/2009/12/sarah-sarais-future-is-happy.html? zx=3D624c8057c82d726a Thank you, Adam. We're all learning.=20=20 Sarah Sarai a riddle wrapped in phylo=20 http://my3000lovingarms.blogspot.com/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 20:43:19 +1100 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Chris Jones Subject: Re: Art games In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Fri, 2009-12-25 at 14:22 -0500, Alan Sondheim wrote: > I'd forget categories like 'media arts,' 'new media.' A few of us are > calling ourselves 'newer media artists' for the hell of it. Working with something as old fashioned as a monorail view camera and silver gelatin prints, I rather like the idea of calling myself a newer media artist, instead of a plain old media artist. There is also another type of forgetting which has got me curious and worried and this seems to be along the lines of forgetting media arts critical aesthetics and instead go out looking for the authentic aura behind the glow on every computer screen. The idea of interactivity with a computer takes on the appearance of such a search, rather like theologians searching the sublime bushes in Nietzsche's writings. So, interactivity takes on a moral ground which demands a return to an archaic control system, which also excludes what is interactive with other art practices, such as the interactive concerns of language poetry, as one example. Anyways, interesting comments on art games and just my concerns above, given a queer media arts aesthetics seems unable to settle for simply the option of interactivity. I haven't read Ken Wark's latest, but suspect he would have to cover this, knowing his writings. Best, Chris Jones. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 20:02:17 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Selected Robin Blaser poems from The Holy Forest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am pleased to announce a rich selection of Blaser's poems at his EPC page: http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/blaser/ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 13:49:02 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: 'On the Necessity of Bad Reviews' by Adam Fieled at The Argotist Online In-Reply-To: <416874.19774.qm@web111503.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i assumed that the statistical material was intended as a joke? Paul Nelson wrote: > Jeffrey, > > Thanks for this link. Of course, Adam is right in his assertion that there needs to be more real criticism in the literary community. But his essay is riddled with weak language and abstractions. While I don't expect scientific data, the notion that 70% of liberal poets are "pigheaded" offers no substance whatsoever. The difference between "hardness" and "softness" isn't any more clear. > > Similarly, he discusses the notion of poetry "success" without giving the reader a sense of how he defines that. Is it publication? Awards? Or something less tangible (& less timely) like being read 100 years after one's death, a skillful use of language, or innovation. (He could cite examples of those poets he feels are successful.) > > Finally, along the same lines, I reject the notion that we should either understand what he means by "teeth, bite and guts" or expect something equally abstract, which he refers to in the pejorative as "academic." What are concrete examples of teeth, bite and guts? Certainly this essay, based on such an interesting premise, fails the criteria it claims to require. > > Feliz Ano. > > Paul > > > Paul E. Nelson > > Global Voices Radio > SPLAB! > > C. City, WA 206.422.5002 > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Jeffrey Side > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Mon, December 28, 2009 6:20:14 AM > Subject: 'On the Necessity of Bad Reviews' by Adam Fieled at The Argotist Online > > 'On the Necessity of Bad Reviews' by Adam Fieled: > http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Fieled%20essay.htm > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 15:53:46 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jeffrey Side Subject: Re: 'On the Necessity of Bad Reviews' by Adam Fieled at The Argotist Online Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Paul, I can't really speak for Adam on this, but I'll see if he'll post a respo= nse=20 to you in this mailing list. He posted a response to Mairead's response=20= to his article on his blog, here: http://adamfieled.blogspot.com/2009/12/response-to-mairead-byrne- gendered.html So he seems willing to address any points that need further clarity. Best, Jeff On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 20:33:18 -0800, Paul Nelson=20 wrote: >Jeffrey, > >Thanks for this link. Of course, Adam is right in his assertion that=20 there needs to be more real criticism in the literary community. But his=20= essay is riddled with weak language and abstractions. While I don't=20 expect scientific data, the notion that 70% of liberal poets=20 are "pigheaded" offers no substance whatsoever. The difference=20 between "hardness" and "softness" isn't any more clear. > >Similarly, he discusses the notion of poetry "success" without giving=20= the reader a sense of how he defines that. Is it publication? Awards? Or=20= something less tangible (& less timely) like being read 100 years aft= er=20 one's death, a skillful use of language, or innovation. (He could cite=20= examples of those poets he feels are successful.) > >Finally, along the same lines, I reject the notion that we should either= =20 understand what he means by "teeth, bite and guts" or expect=20 something equally abstract, which he refers to in the pejorative=20 as "academic." What are concrete examples of teeth, bite and guts?=20 Certainly this essay, based on such an interesting premise, fails the=20 criteria it claims to require. > >Feliz Ano. > >Paul > > > Paul E. Nelson > >Global Voices Radio >SPLAB! > >C. City, WA 206.422.5002 > > > > > > > >________________________________ >From: Jeffrey Side >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Sent: Mon, December 28, 2009 6:20:14 AM >Subject: 'On the Necessity of Bad Reviews' by Adam Fieled at The=20 Argotist Online > >'On the Necessity of Bad Reviews' by Adam Fieled: >http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Fieled%20essay.htm > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check=20 guidelines & sub/unsub info:=20 http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check=20 guidelines & sub/unsub info:=20 http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 16:01:48 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Allan Revich Subject: Re: our war In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was not aware that this was a political forum when I subscribed to it. Forgive me if I am mistaken, but I thought it was a MODERATED list about poetry and poetics? I am aware that all art is political to some degree, but is there now a shortage of forums for pure political debate on the Interweb? Allan Revich http://www.digitalsalon.com -----Original Message----- From: Poetics List (UPenn, UB) [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Herb Levy Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 11:39 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: our war I'm not anymore in favor of Obama's plans to escalate the war in Afghanistan than you seem to be, but to say that Obama somehow ran as a secret warmonger is simply a sign that you weren't paying attention to what Obama was repeatedly and consistently saying in his foreign policy speeches. While he was still a Senator, Obama gave several speeches and co- sponsored legislation in support of the Afghanistan war. While he was running for the Democratic nomination and while he was running for president, every time he spoke about foreign policy, he made clear distinctions between the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and was just as clear that he would focus on winning the war in Afghanistan. Look up his foreign policy speeches, it's all there. It's not Obama's fault if voters simply assumed that because he was generally running as a liberal that he a pacifist or against the wars in both Iraq and Afghanistan. He was very clear about his position on the war in Afghanistan. Bests, Herb On Dec 25, 2009, at 9:49 PM, CA Conrad wrote: > There is no escaping the fact that MANY OF US who voted for Obama DID > NOT (I repeat) DID NOT vote for the escalation of war! But we did > UNKNOWINGLY vote for war, fooled by his grade-school vocabulary of > HOPE and CHANGE and BELIEVE, his Coca Cola ad campaign for president. > > I for one DID NOT vote for Obama as an individual with an individual > political party, individual religious affiliation, or some other > bureaucratic individual's path to the State or Heaven. I instead > voted as a human being who HONESTLY believed that Obama would not harm > the people of the world as did Bush. > > Part of our war includes the push for "gays in the military" as a > civil rights issue. I for one DO NOT believe for a second that there > is ANYTHING civil about the United States Military Industrial Complex. > And I am NOT interested in making the DEADLIEST war machine on Earth > gay friendly! > > PLEASE take a moment to review (and possibly sign) this petition (this > is ALSO for straight people): > http://invasionanniversary.blogspot.com/ > > This is a very important issue, please join the fight. > Most sincerely, > CAConrad > > -- > PhillySound: new poetry http://PhillySound.blogspot.com > > THE BOOK OF FRANK by CAConrad http://CAConrad.blogspot.com > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 13:04:30 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: Art games In-Reply-To: <1262166199.1968.146.camel@chris-laptop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i don't think you need to worry about your new media being seriously infiltrated by my sort of work, chris. here in the wilderness, the 'new media' funding program goes mainly to video artists. and on one of the occassions when i put in a proposal to the national 'media arts' program and actually had an opportunity to speak with one of the judges after the competition and my proposal had been denied, she told me it was "not a media arts proposal". don't worry. all is well in the land of media arts and new media. but i must be doing something right. you, murat and david are worried, anyway. and i hope to give you more to worry about in the coming year. i operate under the disturbing assumption that it's important to understand the media /um one works in/with/through, and that the unique characteristics of the media/um are where art in that media/um can create something new and exciting. in the case of computing, those unique characteristics include interactivity and programmability (actually interactivity is a consequence of programmability). now that we have a philosopher writing about computer art, and stressing the importance of the unique characteristics of computing to computer art, i expect there will be a bit more reason on the matter. maybe not, though. i hope there is. but the idea that it's important to understand one's media/um and its unique characteristics is not new. it goes back at least to greenberg and mcluhan. but, really, surely the proof is in the pudding, ie, the art itself. ja http://vispo.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 14:03:54 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: Los Angeles Poetry PDFs In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Brian, some rare Lenore Kandel chapbooks are in the UCLA library. Scan those!!! -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly@gmail.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 15:46:55 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Adam Fieled Subject: Kent Johnson on Negative Reviews MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Argotist editor Jeffrey Side sent me this link. In this piece, Kent Johnson= discusses many of the same issues I addressed in my recent article: =A0 http://www.maydaymagazine.com/issue1JOHNSON.php=A0=A0=20 =A0 This definitely extends the reach of what I did into more specific territor= y. =A0 Happy New Years! Ad =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0 =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 20:56:00 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: 'On the Necessity of Bad Reviews' by Adam Fieled at The Argotist Online In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit thanks for 'admitting' you don't finish everything, CA--I read yr Elvis book straight through (no pun intended). ruth lepson On 12/29/09 11:42 AM, "CA Conrad" wrote: > To be frank I NEVER FINISH A BOOK if I don't like it. And I believe > most people do the same, even reviewers, so I wonder if the reviewer > who has not finished a book deserves to review it at all? > > Especially for poetry. I say this because sometimes I read a couple > poems that BLOW MY MIND in a book, but don't care for the rest of the > poems. If there are a few poems, even ONE POEM getting me excited > about poetry and spurring me into that marvelous place only poetry can > make for me, then I feel it's my duty to give that book 5 out of 5 > stars. But then I only review books on Goodreads, as I'm not a > scholar or a critic, I'm a poet. I use Goodreads as a way of shouting > out for the poetry I love. > > Let judging the whole book be left for the novelists. I don't read > novels and don't care, > CAConrad ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 19:02:02 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Poetry Project Subject: New Year's Day at The Poetry Project! Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable 2010 Approaches! We hope to see you at our most important fundraising event of the year!=20 Friday, January 1, 2 PM 36th Annual New Year=B9s Day Marathon Benefit Reading Poets and performers this year include: Ammiel Alcalay, Bruce Andrews & Sally Silvers, Penny Arcade, Ari Banias, Jim Behrle, Charles Bernstein, Anselm Berrigan, Edmund Berrigan, Ana Bozicevic, Donna Brook, Michael Brownstein, Franklin Bruno, Tyler Burba, Peter Bushyeager, Reuben Butchart, Callers, Steve Cannon, Yoshiko Chuma, Church Of Betty, Michael Cirelli, Tod= d Colby, John Coletti, CAConrad, Cori Copp, Brenda Coultas, Geoffrey Cruickshank-Hagenbuckle, M=F3nica de la Torre, Mina Pam Dick, Steve Dalachinsky, LaTasha N. Nevada Diggs, Maggie Dubris, Douglas Dunn, Marcella Durand, Steve Earle, Will Edmiston, Joe Elliot, Christine Elmo, Laura Elrick, Maggie Estep, Avram Fefer, Jess Fiorini, Corrine Fitzpatrick, Foamola, Tonya Foster, David Freeman, Ed Friedman, Greg Fuchs, Joanna Fuhrman, Cliff Fyman, Kelly Ginger, Pepi Ginsberg, John Giorno, Philip Glass, John Godfrey, Toby Goodshank, Nada Gordon & Gary Sullivan, Stephanie Gray, Tim Griffin, Miguel Gutierrez, John S. Hall, Diana Hamilton, Janet Hamill, Robert Hershon, Tony Hoffman, Eddie Hopely, Lisa Jarnot, Paolo Javier, Patricia Spears Jones, Pierre Joris, Adeena Karasick, Erica Kaufman= , Lenny Kaye, John Kelly, Aaron Kiely, David Kirschenbaum, Bill Kushner & Merle Lister, Susan Landers, Joan Larkin, Dorothea Lasky, Deniz=E9 Lauture, Joel Lewis, Brendan Lorber, Michael Lydon, Kim Lyons, Dan Machlin & Serena Jost, Judith Malina, Filip Marinovich, Chris Martin, Gillian McCain, Legs McNeil, Tracey McTague, Taylor Mead, Jonas Mekas, Sharon Mesmer, David Mills, Rebecca Moore, Tracie Morris, Will Morris, Eileen Myles, Jess Mynes, Roy Nathanson, Elinor Nauen, Murat Nemat-Nejat, Jim Neu, Geoffrey Olsen, Dael Orlandersmith, Richard O=B9Russa, Eugene Ostashevsky, Yuko Otomo, Gary Parrish, Simon Pettet, Nicole Peyrafitte & Miles Joris-Peyrafitte, Genesis Breyer P-Orridge, Kristin Prevallet, Brett Price, Arlo Quint, Elizabeth Reddin, Evelyn Reilly, Citizen Reno, Renato Rosaldo, Bob Rosenthal, Dougla= s Rothschild, Tom Savage, Michael Scharf, David Shapiro, Frank Sherlock, Elliott Sharp, Nathaniel Siegel, Patti Smith, Christopher Stackhouse, Stacy Szymaszek, Anne Tardos, Susie Timmons, Edwin Torres, Rodrigo Toscano=B9s Collapsible Poetics Theater, Tony Towle, David Vogen, Nicole Wallace, Lewis Warsh, Phyllis Wat, Karen Weiser, Simone White, Dustin Williamson, Emily XYZ, Don Yorty, Rachel Zolf, Peter Zummo Group (with Ernie Brooks and Bill Ruyle), Magdalena Zurawski & more t.b.a. This event will be held in the Sanctuary. General admission $18, Students & Seniors $15, Members $10. There will be books and refreshments for sale in the parish hall. Become a Poetry Project Member! http://poetryproject.org/become-a-member Calendar: http://www.poetryproject.org/program-calendar The Poetry Project is located at St. Mark's Church-in-the-Bowery 131 East 10th Street at Second Avenue New York City 10003 Trains: 6, F, N, R, and L. info@poetryproject.org www.poetryproject.org Admission is $8, $7 for students/seniors and $5 for members (though now those who take out a membership at $95 or higher will get in FREE to all regular readings). We are wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. For more info call 212-674-0910. If you=B9d like to be unsubscribed from this mailing list, please drop a line at info@poetryproject.org. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 00:04:06 +0530 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve dalachinsky Subject: Re: 'On the Necessity of Bad Reviews' by Adam Fieled at The Argotist Online MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit my new book which i egoistically admit i am very proud of and which is a collab with french photographer jacques bisceglia just got a review in the rag all about jazz (sadly most of my reviews tho good are always in the music world) but tho the review short and to the point (tho what point one can only guess) was a "good" review i have euphemistically said of it that it might as well have been a BAD one since the wimp, editor of paper in fact got facts wrong , wrote it without any real insight , artitistic awareness or care and certainly didn't make "me the objective reader" want to go out and buy or at least explore it as both a poetry and music fan .... but this paper rarely critques anything in the negative - in fact i got "fired" from it for being too personal and for stating my honest opinion of a gig this same editor who later reviewed my book had the nerve to state afterward "well you probably don't enjoy writing for us anyway" whereupon i replied "i don't enjoy writing in general" just to drop the dialogue i think bad reviews are c=very necessary but like in the COP world it's all about cronie criticism and amassing cultural capital ...... so read on all you daring readers like a play i saw tonite by a well known poet - the folks i was with disliked it intensely for all the right reasons but i know they will never dare let their opinion stray beyond my wife and me tho they could if they so desired and i know why they won't etc etc nor will i WOULD YOU????? it's your world you have to gravitate through it sometimes we can do it for foks we don't know and have no fear of future reprisals or if we know them we do so behind they're backs and hope they never learn of this but rarely in print if there is a future (career/friendship at risk ) a famous music critic i know once criticized a keth jarrett cd jarrett was his friend and used to have dinners with him until this review came out i asked the critic why risk a friendship - he said this was his job i said i understand but that particular cd was not worth risking your friendship over you could have just overlooked it / not reviewed it at all rather than DID it or lie.. he had not other answer just the SS officer's reply I WAS JUST DOING MY JOB...... wow enough time to finish my column now On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 13:49:02 -0600 Maria Damon writes: > i assumed that the statistical material was intended as a joke? > > Paul Nelson wrote: > > Jeffrey, > > > > Thanks for this link. Of course, Adam is right in his assertion > that there needs to be more real criticism in the literary > community. But his essay is riddled with weak language and > abstractions. While I don't expect scientific data, the notion that > 70% of liberal poets are "pigheaded" offers no substance whatsoever. > The difference between "hardness" and "softness" isn't any more > clear. > > > > Similarly, he discusses the notion of poetry "success" without > giving the reader a sense of how he defines that. Is it publication? > Awards? Or something less tangible (& less timely) like being read > 100 years after one's death, a skillful use of language, or > innovation. (He could cite examples of those poets he feels are > successful.) > > > > Finally, along the same lines, I reject the notion that we should > either understand what he means by "teeth, bite and guts" or expect > something equally abstract, which he refers to in the pejorative as > "academic." What are concrete examples of teeth, bite and guts? > Certainly this essay, based on such an interesting premise, fails > the criteria it claims to require. > > > > Feliz Ano. > > > > Paul > > > > > > Paul E. Nelson > > > > Global Voices Radio > > SPLAB! > > > > C. City, WA 206.422.5002 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Jeffrey Side > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Sent: Mon, December 28, 2009 6:20:14 AM > > Subject: 'On the Necessity of Bad Reviews' by Adam Fieled at The > Argotist Online > > > > 'On the Necessity of Bad Reviews' by Adam Fieled: > > http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Fieled%20essay.htm > > > > ================================== > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > ================================== > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 01:11:50 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: 'On the Necessity of Bad Reviews' by Adam Fieled at The Argotist Online In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 In the 2009, spring issue of MAY DAY, under the title of "Some Darker Bouquets," there was a round table discussion "on the subject of contemporary poetry criticism responding to an open letter by Kent Johnson. It is worth checking out in relation to the discussion here. The website is: http://maydaymagazine.com/issue1tableofcontents.php Ciao, Murat On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 8:56 PM, Ruth Lepson wrote: > thanks for 'admitting' you don't finish everything, CA--I read yr Elvis > book > straight through (no pun intended). > ruth lepson > > > On 12/29/09 11:42 AM, "CA Conrad" wrote: > > > To be frank I NEVER FINISH A BOOK if I don't like it. And I believe > > most people do the same, even reviewers, so I wonder if the reviewer > > who has not finished a book deserves to review it at all? > > > > Especially for poetry. I say this because sometimes I read a couple > > poems that BLOW MY MIND in a book, but don't care for the rest of the > > poems. If there are a few poems, even ONE POEM getting me excited > > about poetry and spurring me into that marvelous place only poetry can > > make for me, then I feel it's my duty to give that book 5 out of 5 > > stars. But then I only review books on Goodreads, as I'm not a > > scholar or a critic, I'm a poet. I use Goodreads as a way of shouting > > out for the poetry I love. > > > > Let judging the whole book be left for the novelists. I don't read > > novels and don't care, > > CAConrad > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 04:48:44 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Edgar Allan Poe & Negative Reviews MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The current gathering of essays concerning the lack of negative reviews amd= attendant surplus of "puffery" in both British and American poetry reviewi= ng/blurbing brings one full circle to the issues being riased 180 years ago= by Edgar Allan Poe=2C the original "Tommy Hawk Man" as well as an occaisi= onal dabbler in puffery himself. The first to raise the question of the great importance of Poe's reviewing= =2C criticism and poetic theories as a battle against all the sins of revi= ewing=2C criticism and poetics then and now extant in American poetry is W= iiliam Carlos Williams=2C in his piece on Poe which concludes the series of= historical studies in In the American Grain. An examplary full length book study is Sidney P. Moss' Poe's Literary Battl= es The Critic in the Context of his Literary Milieu. (Durham: Duke UP=2C 1= 963.) Perhaps among the currently stated and unstated "problems" in today's poetr= y reviewing is a lack of historical context=2C background--given that Poe'= s example itself is rarely mentioned=2C if at all=2C in recent articles. =20 Finding much of what Poe fought against still in existence today=2C though = fought agsint far more mildly=2C one might ask not only about the lack of h= istorcial contextualization=2C but also why the same terms are arising acro= ss nearly two centuries=2C and the same issues of protective conformity. C= uriously =2C there is also remergence of the examples set down by the New C= ritics in terms of Formalism=2C "ambiguity=2C" "close readings" and etc.=20 Perhaps it is not only "negtive revieiwng" which is needed--for how deep is= the reach of negative reviewing unless attended by an actual "wider view p= oint" such as Poe's in questioinging not only the poetic language of a cutu= re=2C but the relation of that language with the language of the culture as= a whole. Otherwise=2C one finds just what is being complained of --a seri= es of reviews and critical thrusts and parries taking place in a rarefiued = vaccum=2C where very similar "sides' take each other on over micro issues h= aving to do with 'postioning' and "the profession" . . . the "canon" and so= forth-- Why not essay examing poetry and poetic language=2C poetic culture so to sp= eak=2C from the pointof view of the chaages=2C the symptons=2C in the langa= uge itself? Perhaps the fear of negtive reviewing takes the place of a wid= e range of other fears=2C sublimated and hidden in plain site/sight/cite li= ke so many purloined letters among the bric-a-brac. In the first lines of his Introduction to Torture: Cancer of Democracy Fr= ance and Algeria 1954-62=2C Pierre Vidal-Naquet asks "Can a great nation=2C liberal by tradition=2C allows its institutions=2C its army=2C and its system of justice to degenerate over the span of a few years as a result of the use of torture=2C and by its concealment and deception of such a vital issue call the whole Western concept of human dignity and the rights of the individual into question?" To fit in with the change of events=2C words=2C too=2C had to change--Vidal= Naquet goes on to quote:=20 In The Peloponnesian War=2C Book 3=2C Thucydides states: "To fit in with the change of events=2C words=2C too=2C had to change. What use= d to be thought of as a thoughtless act of aggression was now regarded as the courage one would expect to find in a party member=3B to think of the future and wait was merely another way of saying one was a coward=2C any idea of moderation was just an attempt to disguise one's unmanly character=3B ability to understand a question from all sides meant one was totally unfitted for action=3B frenzied violence came to be considered an attribute of a real man. " Torture=2C as Vidal -Naquet examines its effects in languga=2Ce takews off = into a ful scale rebranding a la Orwell of words and terms in which opposit= es become equivalents=2C and each word and pharse has buyilt into it the po= ssiblity of being a trap=2C expecially for those who do not conform to the = dictates of the Institutions from which language issues. During times such= as the present=2C educational and cultural institutions are not the refuge= s of Free Speech and independent thinking they usualy take themselves to be= . Often called "the new McCarthyism=2C" the forms of suppression of Freedo= m of Speech and culture comntinually evolove and multiply=2C as words and t= erms vanish and are replaced by others--erasures being replaced by rebrande= d palimpsests=2C and a geneal state of entropy of "resistance" meeting the = ever more overbearing conformity. If the lack of negative revieiwing--and why is "nergitve reviewing" per se = going to be any differnet a conformity than puffery=2C without the asking o= f more questions re language and torture for example--if the lack of negati= ve reviewing may be seen as a form of dispaced fear=2C then how many other = fears are lurking among the denials=2C the Orwellian doublings=2C the rebra= ndings and conformities=2C the reaweakenings of old terminologies--how many= fears are displaced onto the acts of cheerful puffery and the occiasional = pro forma "negative review"?-- Aftwer all=2C puffery itself may act as a form of self-censorship and admit= ting of oneself to "protective custody" as much as being praise for some on= e else's texts along the same lines as one's own-- Among the themes of Robertos Bolano's By Night in Chile and Distant Star is= the close relationships among torture=2C poetry and language at al levels = of a culture. A US back 9/11 in Chile forced these questions to emrge event= uallyfrom the hell holes of the pincochet regime=2C the first "laboratory" = of Milton Friedman's "Shock Doctrinez" Free Market Economics. Is it not a = form of Blowback from another 9/11=2C reaching far back as that first 9/11 = and gaining full impetus in the Reagan Years=2C that today carries its Shoc= k Doctrines through the continually spreading entropy of uncritical languag= e posing wanly as "criticism=2C" even when "negetive=2C" without anything o= ther guiding it than a massive fear--slef-and outwardly imposed=2C a fear t= hat necessitates a conformity of action regardless of the words used=2C al = words having become corrupted by the cancer of torture . . .=20 But that is just one suggestion for widening the question of revieiwing--as= after all the examples are there already from Poe writing 180 years ago-- If the same questions remain after nearly two centuries=2C what after all = =2C may be generating the questions as well as the things questioned?--If n= ot something perhaps at some level continually unaddressed-- =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141665/direct/01/= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 09:22:32 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Art games In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Jim, What strikes me about this argument is that both sides insist that the other side does not understand, hear or see one's point of view. As a result, the responses have been circular, at cross purposes, neither side following or being in any way affected by the arguments of the other side. I read your essay "Arts, Game, and Play." The piece seems to reinforce the deep, "secret" connections between computer art and games rather than "proving" their differences. You do make a serious attempt to show what the difference maybe, but they are vague and less convincing than their "secret" (your word), provocative connections. As far as I can see, you come with two words to point to the distinction: a) computer art possesses the element of "play" which a computer game may not; b) computer art has "enigma" which the game does not. Then you ask, what are the ways in which a game may gain playfulness or, transformed, embody enigma. These are very good questions, but they are the beginning rather the end of an argument. The question, particularly, of what an "enigma" is or how it occurs (very crucial to our discussion) remains unsolved. Therefore, the distinction between computer art and computer game (if it exists) remains a mystery. This is a very crucial question because the nagging sense that the computer art, as it advances in technical "prowess," resembles more and more a game (therefore, devoid of content) is so disturbing to many of us. You yourself, although only indirectly, acknowledge that when you say (I am paraphrasing) that in their absorbing (immersive?) sophistication computer games are the Hollywood versions of computer art. Let me take a different approach by focusing on the game of chess, breaking down and analyzing its various aspects. Such an approach being removed and relatively freed from the passions of the moment, it may illuminate our discussion. I will discuss chess in its various aspects, as I see them: a) Every chess game has a beginning and an end. b) Theoretically, the potential variety of chess moves/counter moves in any game is basically infinite. In practice, this number is much more limited because the rules of the game establishes a system of rewards and punishments which turn certain moves into traps which lead to the end of the game. Its "freedom" is illusionary. That's why, the game develops certain patterns of movements, often named after the practitioners who imagined them, to delay (never succeed) that end. c) While it is being played, the game is absolutely absorptive/immersive, one caught in the mystery of the next move and who will win and lose, also vicariously (virtually?) the onlooker matching his or her wits against those of the players. Once the game is over, those passions gone (reviewed in "tranquility" so to speak), one can go back to the game and enjoy the play of the mind two intelligences fighting each other may have produced. In other words, after its end, a game may gain the element of play. d) A game of chess has no enigma. It has no enigma because everything that occurs in it can be explained, exhausted by the sets of rules of the game. Chess has no content, no post mortem residue of life which will blur that clarity, throw sand into the infernal efficiency, cast doubt on its completness. Discussing the distinction between religion and science, Saint Augustine said (I am paraphrasing) that religion deals with the question of "how to go to heaven, and not how the heavens go." I think this argument can be applied to our discussion here. Almost all your discussions of computer art involve a description of process, how one can do certain things. As far as I am aware, not once do you discuss why you developed a certain set of algorithms rather than the other, what is the "value" embedded in that choice. To put it more concretely, never once do you explain why you chose Kandinsky who figures so prominently in your work -basically implying any other artist or image would have done as well. It is this lack of content -of ideas- except as sets of movements, instructions which I find so frustrating, which reinforce in me the feeling that what is going on here is more in the nature of a game rather than creating an enigma. This does not mean it is impossible, but it needs a different approach to define itself which will reconnect it to the world. As I tried to show in the chess analogy, rules are never neutral. The sense of total openness and freedom they may project at the beginning has in reality implicit restrictions which limit, censure, even punish this freedom. That is why David made parallels to fascism in his critique of what is going on, that is why the nature of the rules themselves (its specific "program") must be part and parcel of any computer work -not the how of it but also its why -its metaphysics- which opens it to the creation of an enigma, possibly the best definition of what art is. Have a happy new year. Ciao, Murat On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 6:48 AM, Jim Andrews wrote: > By this argument "programmability" also has existed in the world for a >> long >> time. >> > > False. > > *lopes doesn't find the "essence of computer art in computer games". he's >> a >> >> trained philosopher, so the word 'essence' is one he would use carefully. >> you are making a lot of assumptions about his work and about what i think, >> and you're generally quite far off base with them. he thinks of computer >> games as instances of or examples of computer art. his definition of >> computer art, as i mention in the review at >> http://www.ciac.ca/magazine/compterendu.htm , is* >> >> You are right. I was reacting to his words in his interview with you. He >> is >> saying games are one kind of computer art, seguing into and implying by it >> that "immersion," total absorption as in a game is a crucial aspect of >> computer art. >> > > No, not a crucial part. His definition of computer art stresses > interactivity. Doesn't say anything about immersion. > > *"An item is a computer art work just in case (1) it's art, (2) it's run >> on >> >> a computer, (3) it's interactive, and (4) it's interactive because it's >> run >> on a computer" (p. 27)* >> >> Since the first three of these conditions can either exist outside a >> computer (#'s 1 and 3) or can exist without being art (# 2), we are left >> with the fourth: computer art is art whose interactivity is dependent on a >> computer -a definition very similar to the definition of a computer game, >> particularly if one adds the quality of "immersion," which Mr. Lopes seems >> to do. It seems to me that he believes games are much nearer to something >> I >> would call essence of computer art than it appears on the surface. >> > > A lot of computer art is interactive without being a game. > > *so it's a theory of interactive computer art. he's trying to get at the >> >> important characteristics of art in which the computer is crucial as >> medium. >> it isn't a book about art that happens to be digital but could as well >> appear in print or whatever. >> * >> Following my argument, one can easily make the statement: computer art is >> a >> kind of computer game. I am pretty sure you would not agree with that >> statement. >> > > Correct. > > > I am less certain about Mr. Lopes. He does imply an similarity >> (if not equality or even identity) between games and art created strictly >> on >> a computer. (Interestingly, he sees a continuity between games, chess, or >> visual/verbal entertainment, comic books, outside a computer and on.) I >> would be be interested in finding Mr. Lopes's reaction to the statement, >> "computer art is a kind of computer game." If he disagrees with it, does >> he >> then not need to make the distinction between art and game part of his >> definition of computer art. >> > > No, he doesn't. There's lots of interactive art that is not a game. > > > On my part, seeing computer art as a game, more >> correctly as play, would be illuminating -a real insight into the >> possibilities of computer, similar to seeing poetry as play of language >> ("I >> play at riches to ease the clamoring for gold." Emily Dickinson). >> > > Have a look at http://www.ciac.ca/magazine/perspective.htm , if you like, > for relations between art and game. > > *there are works, such as harold cohen's aaron, which lopes discusses in >> his >> >> book, that are not interactive but actually are works of computer art. so >> lopes's definition of computer art is too narrrow to include all works of >> computer art. but it's a very good book nonetheless because a clear >> philosophy of interactive computer art is valuable. it *is* a theory of a >> type of computer art, not a theory of work that isn't necessarily computer >> art.* >> >> Does Lopes consider harold cohen's work not computer art then? >> > > His definition of computer art does not include this sort of work, ie, > non-interactive work. But he discusses Cohen's work in his book as computer > art. > > > I would be >> very interested to see if Lopes accepts your criticism, that his >> definition >> is insufficient, or insists that in his view interactivity -in its >> "immersiveness" something similar to a computer game- is integral to >> computer art, a quality cohen's work does not possess. If he still insists >> on his definition, in my view, his idea becomes more interesting. >> > > He liked my review. He said it took the philosophy further. > > *to broaden the definition of 'computer art' to include work such as >> cohen's >> >> aaron, one needs to look at the role of programming in computer art, >> because >> programmability (not virtuality) is what distinguishes computers from >> other >> machines.* >> We already have gone over this. >> > > Yes, but are you any clearer on it? All computers are programmable. That's > what makes them computers. Your term 'virtuality' is vague. > > > Underlying your disquisition on time, there is a simple fact. If you are >> claiming -and I am accepting your claim- that machines can, potentially at >> least, reproduce all human thought -that machines can "think"- then you >> have >> to accept that machines can potentially develop a spirit -"have a >> spiritual >> life".- Unless, you want to claim that the spirit is something different, >> separate, ineffable and inviolate, which I don't think you do. You can't >> have it both ways. If machines can think (that there is nothing to prove >> they can't), then, they can develop a spirit. Some of them may even start >> believing in god. In other words, when one is creating, for instance, >> images >> of Anghor Wat in a computer art work, one can not see and accept those >> images as flat, manipulated fodder in the hands of the artist's >> "imagination" (his or her "spiritual life") but entities that, in/despite >> their profound otherness, have their own autonomous "objectivity," their >> "spiritual life." In other words, the enlightened openness you show >> towards >> the intellectual capabilities of the computer as machine -I have been >> aware >> of your long admiration for Turing's ideas- you must also show towards the >> materials which enter a computer art work. >> > > Machines will probably be developed that 'think'. And are as complex (or > more) as we are in their cognitive capacities. And, yes, at that point--or > even sooner (cats and dogs and other animals are surely 'spiritual > creatures' as well)--we will need to provide them status as sentient beings. > But, Murat, that day is not here yet. Programming is not there yet. Or I > haven't seen any indication of it, in any case. > > On my site, I have made various works I call 'animisms', defined as kinetic > poetry with soul. That is mostly 'soul' as in 'lively'. The life of art is > in liveliness, not 'artificial life' or 'artificial intelligence'. Lively > art engages our own liveliness. > > Concerning the use of art work, I realize it's problematical to be using > images from the Internet in dbCinema works. The whole issues of > appropriation and intellectual property. I try to respect the images I use > by creating good art with them. But, also, the concept of dbCinema as a > langu(im)age processor and graphic synthesizer, a program where you type > stuff in and it gets turned into images (via google image search) and then > painterly cinema of those images, was just too tantalizing to me to resist. > I am a moth to the light, on that one. Working with these global databases > of images tied to language queries is just too good to resist, to me. As > material for new art. > > *But we can think of the current state as holding all the conditions for >> the >> >> development of 'thought' in computers. They can make decisions. They can >> re-write their own code. They can have 'senses'. They can interpret the >> information from their 'senses'. They can construct a world view. They are >> language machines. And there is no proof, and probably never will be, that >> there exist thought processes of which humans are capable and computers >> are >> not. Machine intelligence would undoubtedly be quite different from human >> intelligence because the contexts of our existences are quite different. >> We >> have biological bodies and have evolved in ways quite different from how >> computers 'evolve'. >> >> *Your sentence, "Machine intelligence would undoubtedly be quite different >> from human intelligence because the contexts of our existences are quite >> different. We have biological bodies and have evolved in ways quite >> different from how computers 'evolve'", seems to contradict what you say >> in >> the previous part of this paragraph. >> > > I don't know what you mean. > > > What does "context of our existence" >> mean for you? In fact, your approach systematically seems to avoid looking >> at this broader "context," focusing basically on the possibilities of the >> computer as a machine "to produce (human) art." If you had focused more on >> the broader context, our discussions may have taken other turns. >> > > There seems to be quite a bit of agreement, Murat, about the idea that > should machine 'consciousness' arise, as it likely will, that these > intelligences will likely be quite different from our own. At first they > might not have, for instance, bodies. That would be a significant difference > in the context of their existence versus ours. My body tells me what to > think all the time. And our bodies are of course crucial in how we come to > see ourselves and the world. There are other things, of course, that inform > how we come to see ourselves and the world. Other people, mostly. And > culture. And so on. > > I doubt that the most interesting route to machine consciousness is to try > to replicate human concsiousness. Instead, certain properties of human > consciousness will be retained and be at the core of it, but other > properties will be discarded as just not germane to the task (given the > differences in context of existence) or even too hard or vague to replicate. > And other properties will emerge from the programming that we may not have. > > > Your distinction between machine and biology is bogus. There is such a >> thing >> as a cyborg (at this moment only in our imagination as a possibility, no >> doubt). The argument is the same. The film *Blade Runner* goes beautifully >> and deeply into the relationship between the human and his replicant, >> revealing that the question (physical, moral, political) of machine >> intelligence is at bottom one with the question of otherness, of the human >> ability to see, embrace the other. The beauty of *Film Runner* is that the >> audience experiences it from the point of view, the "subjectivity," of >> that >> other, his/her/its -the cyborg's- "spiritual life," in terms of its facing >> mortality. >> > > I like Blade Runner also. Maybe cyborgs will have bodies like ours. I > certainly don't know. That is further away than machine intelligence. > > (*Blade Runner* was the last great sci-fi movie which did not produce its >> >> special effects digitally even though there are very few, if any, sci-fi >> film which can match it in power and the potency of its images. A few >> months >> ago in this list I argued that this was so because the makers of *Blade >> Runner* were forced to *choose* the effects that were *necessary*. This >> leads to the question if there is something detrimental to the creation of >> art in the mechanical fluidity of the computer as a medium. In an >> interview >> the film maker Jean Renoir says that an art form weakens -the term he uses >> is "becomes decadent"- to the degree that its medium becomes more >> efficient, >> technically more advanced (one can find the interview in the specials >> section of the DVD for the film *The French Cancan*). I made a similar >> argument in my book *The Peripheral Space of Photography* where I argue >> that >> some of the most powerful things in 19th century photographs occur because >> of the difficulties the early cameras had replicating the image of the >> computer, "Intentional or not, the power of [these photographs] has >> nothing >> to do with painting but is integral to the nature and limitations of >> photographic medium itself, involving not copying, but the 'perilous and >> ambiguous process of reproduction' and the demands the photographic >> subject >> puts on the lens.") >> > > Well, again, I don't agree. As software and hardware tools for art evolve, > it gets easier to produce a lot of crap. And there will be and already is > lots. In every art. But real artists are able to engage our liveliness. > Producing the same old stuff doesn't. Producing unnecessary work doesn't. > The sense to follow one's own vision will not evaporate from the world with > the invention of better tools. The tools will inform vision and sense, just > as language does (language is a technology), but we all aren't mesmerized by > buttons. > > > I don't see what is "utopian" about this view, or distopian, for that >> matter. I never said they were going to make everything all better, and >> neither does Lopes. >> * >> What is "utopian" about it is your naivety that computer art can be >> approached solely in its own terms (as simply a product of technical >> openings, inventions and possibilities) without reference to the context >> within which it exists, how it is affected by the social and moral forces, >> political and metaphysical ideas surrounding them and how it reflects, or >> fails to do so, those forces. >> > > I don't think I do that. Simply because my work does not often deal with > the military use of computers as weaponry does not mean it's without > relation to such an issue. > > I try to create strong computer art. My work should be studied by student > programmers as well as arts students. My work takes the art of programming > to a different level. Student programmers need to know how programming is an > art, not simply something for making business and military widgets. My work > shows that, as programmers, we can aspire to the creation of strong art. And > with that go certain atmospheres and notions of what's important. My work > shows programmers can aspire to the creation of beautiful and good things > for the world. Of course I am not alone in this. The existence of such work > is important. Among other things, it helps people tell the difference. > > Would you have preferred Kandinsky to paint war pictures? I pursue art with > all the strength and imagination at my disposal. If you don't like it, too > bad. > > * What he does say, and I agree with, is that computer art is a new form >> of >> art. By that I don't mean art that happens to be digital but could as well >> appear in print or whatever, but art in which the computer is crucial as >> medium. This doesn't make it better than other forms of art. It's >> different. >> It has what many people feel are exciting possibilities both by virtue of >> its being relatively unexplored and also by virtue of the radical >> possibilities computers offer. >> >> *Your definition actually contradicts Lopes's. As long as it is "crucial" >> in >> its production, if computer art can also appear in print or whatever, then >> a >> poem produced on a word processor can also be defined as computer art >> (that >> is exactly the dilemma Lopes is trying to avaid).* >> > > Your logic escapes me. > > > I'm happy to see a book written by a philosopher about computer art. It's >> quite a different sort of book than the other ones I've read about >> 'digital >> art', 'internet art', 'digital poetry', and so on. He isn't looking for >> the >> social or literary (etc) significance of computer art. He's just looking >> to >> describe what it is. Which is valuable. Just the basics. Just the >> fundamentals. * >> >> Does such "basics" (essence?) really exist? Isn't an art form always, from >> its inception, entangled with its context? Interestingly, David in his >> last >> post picks on the "game" like structure of computer art which Lopes >> observes >> (something to do with that art's "basics") and shows the political >> ramifications of such an approach. >> > > Read Lopes's book, Murat. You might see it differently if you actually read > it. > > ja > http://vispo.com > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 09:51:10 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Maria Damon Subject: jim dunn contact info? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all: Here's a follow-up q to my recent query on Wieners permissions: does anyone have an email address for Jim Dunn, JW's friend and caretaker? bests, md ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 13:06:02 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: jared schickling Subject: 'On the Necessity of Bad Reviews,' Johnson's Mayday reviews forum, and then Reconfigurations In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable We followed the Mayday forum responding to Johnson's letter regarding "nega= tive" reviews with this forum at Reconfigurations=2C titled "Review Review.= " I think it's even livelier than the initial: =20 reconfigurations.blogspot.com =20 Jared Schickling =20 =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 12:24:19 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Paul Nelson Subject: Re: 'On the Necessity of Bad Reviews' by Adam Fieled at The Argotist Online In-Reply-To: <4B3BAEAE.2060104@umn.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hard to tell that from the other abstractions, the general lack= Maria,=0A=0AHard to tell that from the other abstractions, the general lack= of specifics, &c. Had clicked on the piece hoping to get some substance. D= avid Baptiste-Chirot hits it on the head, again, with his post, but I was e= mboldened to throw in my 2c when he (Adam) was encouraging criticism. Thoug= ht Sarah S was kinder and at least as accurate as me.=0A=0ALike the post fr= om the man who wondered about the political nature of a recent thread, I to= o look for substantive engagement with poetry, poetics, criticism, &c. =0A= =0AFeliz A=F1o.=0A=0A(Hope the tilde takes this time!)=0A=0APaul=0A=0A=0A= =0A Paul E. Nelson =0A=0AGlobal Voices Radio=0ASPLAB!=0A=0AC. City, WA 206.= 422.5002=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Ma= ria Damon =0ATo: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=0ASent: Wed= , December 30, 2009 11:49:02 AM=0ASubject: Re: 'On the Necessity of Bad Rev= iews' by Adam Fieled at The Argotist Online=0A=0Ai assumed that the statist= ical material was intended as a joke?=0A=0APaul Nelson wrote:=0A> Jeffrey,= =0A>=0A> Thanks for this link. Of course, Adam is right in his assertion th= at there needs to be more real criticism in the literary community. But his= essay is riddled with weak language and abstractions. While I don't expect= scientific data, the notion that 70% of liberal poets are "pigheaded" offe= rs no substance whatsoever. The difference between "hardness" and "softness= " isn't any more clear.=0A>=0A> Similarly, he discusses the notion of poetr= y "success" without giving the reader a sense of how he defines that. Is it= publication? Awards? Or something less tangible (& less timely) like being= read 100 years after one's death, a skillful use of language, or innovatio= n. (He could cite examples of those poets he feels are successful.)=0A>=0A>= Finally, along the same lines, I reject the notion that we should either u= nderstand what he means by "teeth, bite and guts" or expect something equal= ly abstract, which he refers to in the pejorative as "academic." What are c= oncrete examples of teeth, bite and guts? Certainly this essay, based on su= ch an interesting premise, fails the criteria it claims to require.=0A>=0A>= Feliz Ano.=0A>=0A> Paul=0A>=0A>=0A> Paul E. Nelson =0A>=0A> Global Voices= Radio=0A> SPLAB!=0A>=0A> C. City, WA 206.422.5002=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>= =0A>=0A> ________________________________=0A> From: Jeffrey Side =0A> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=0A> Sent: Mon, December 28= , 2009 6:20:14 AM=0A> Subject: 'On the Necessity of Bad Reviews' by Adam Fi= eled at The Argotist Online=0A>=0A> 'On the Necessity of Bad Reviews' by Ad= am Fieled:=0A> http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Fieled%20essay.htm=0A>=0A> = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A> The Poetics List is moderated & does not ac= cept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/p= oetics/welcome.html=0A>=0A> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A> The Poetics L= ist is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub = info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A> =0A=0A=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0AThe Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts= . Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome= .html=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 14:02:48 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: Edgar Allan Poe & Negative Reviews In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Part of the problem seems to be the conflation of criticism and reviewing, or a practice of criticism rising up from, being abstracted from, reviews. So what is the difference between a negative review and criticism which uncovers and / or discusses serious flaws in a work? Isn't the latter more interesting? We can recognise the difference between a puff piece and a review which finds a lot -- even everything -- to praise in a work. But do we think of positive reviews as criticism? Do we think of them as puff pieces, especially when the writer has a motive to praise? Now that so many more books are being published, on micropresses, do we still have the idea that a book which doesn't receive a review is so bad no one could praise it? What about all the books published which are only reviewed -- raved -- by friends of the author, because the author wasn't able to access "real" reviewers for whatever reason? Which is part of what Poe was writing and part of what I feel is the true nature of the problem, which few of the roundtable participants engaged except obliquely. And as these are some of the most fluent reviewers -- well, one has to read between the lines of the roundtable just as one reads between the lines of reviews. -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly@gmail.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 14:12:00 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: Art games In-Reply-To: <1dec21ae0912310622l35413efeg8cc3337e3eb3bb8@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Murat, > What strikes me about this argument is that both sides insist that the > other > side does not understand, hear or see one's point of view. As a result, > the > responses have been circular, at cross purposes, neither side following or > being in any way affected by the arguments of the other side. > > I read your essay "Arts, Game, and Play." The piece seems to reinforce the > deep, "secret" connections between computer art and games rather than > "proving" their differences. You do make a serious attempt to show what > the > difference maybe, but they are vague and less convincing than their > "secret" > (your word), provocative connections. As far as I can see, you come with > two > words to point to the distinction: a) computer art possesses the element > of > "play" which a computer game may not; b) computer art has "enigma" which > the > game does not. Most games are played to win. Most art games are not. That strikes me as the most significant difference between most games and most art games. I talk about this in the essay. You don't mention it. All games are played. All art games are played. Play is a part of all games. Play is a part of most things. Dogs and cats play. Records play. Instruments are played. Playwrights write plays. Poets play on words like the pianoman tickles the ivories. Don't play me for a nit. We all play. Play is an important part of what it means to think (and, therefore, to learn). Because to play is to hypothesize and simulate and pretend. And art, as we know, is very big on pretending. Which is why art attracts pretenders--great pretenders and frauds alike. We play, in creating or interacting with art. But the goals are usually different from most games in that we don't play to win or beat someone else or beat the art or beat anything, except to be on the beat, sometimes. Or on the one, as James Brown said, earlier. Often the enigmatic is a part of art. It is rarely a part of games. This is all in the essay at http://www.ciac.ca/magazine/perspective.htm > Then you ask, what are the ways in which a game may gain > playfulness or, transformed, embody enigma. These are very good questions, > but they are the beginning rather the end of an argument. The question, > particularly, of what an "enigma" is or how it occurs (very crucial to our > discussion) remains unsolved. Therefore, the distinction between computer > art and computer game (if it exists) remains a mystery. Most games are played to win. Most art games are not. That strikes me as the most significant difference between most games and most art games. I talk about this in the essay. You don't mention it. I say 'most' too much for you, rather than giving you absolutes, perhaps. But, Murat, most games and most art share elements. There is no absolute difference between art and games that applies to all games and all art, including computer art. If we mention a work of art, we can find game elements in it. And if we mention a game, we can find elements of art in it. It isn't just computer art and computer games that are related, but the notion of art itself is related to the notion of a game. No one would say that they are the same, though. And the same goes for computer art and computer games. Games can be enigmatic, including computer games. For instance, the goal can shift from one thing to another and wend itself to contemplation of the enigma. As sometimes happens in art and life. > This is a very > crucial question because the nagging sense that the computer art, as it > advances in technical "prowess," resembles more and more a game > (therefore, > devoid of content) is so disturbing to many of us. You yourself, although > only indirectly, acknowledge that when you say (I am paraphrasing) that in > their absorbing (immersive?) sophistication computer games are the > Hollywood > versions of computer art. I don't think it's true of all computer art that "as it advances in technical "prowess," resembles more and more a game". Technical prowess is one thing. The form of the work is something else. Increased technical prowess does not force the form into that of a game. On the contrary, technical prowess opens up the possibilities of form. dbCinema is quite advanced technically. But it isn't a game. I hope it appeals to our playfulness, engages us in play. But we wouldn't call a guitar a game, though we play it. And we play it sort of as we play a game. But the locus/focus is not the same. So too with some interactive computer art. dbCinema blurs the line between tool and art. Not between game and art. dbCinema has content, but that content is algorithms that shape the content. You can use dbCinema to produce visual work that has a characteristic stylistic range. And if you approach it imaginatively, you might do something that looks different from anything anyone else has produced with it. Now, the whole process is related to games in that it's interactive and rule-based, but dbCinema is more like a guitar than a game. And I and others play the guitar/dbCinema to produce art. > Let me take a different approach by focusing on the game of chess, > breaking > down and analyzing its various aspects. Such an approach being removed and > relatively freed from the passions of the moment, it may illuminate our > discussion. I will discuss chess in its various aspects, as I see them: > > a) Every chess game has a beginning and an end. So does every book. > b) Theoretically, the potential variety of chess moves/counter moves in > any > game is basically infinite. In practice, this number is much more limited > because the rules of the game establishes a system of rewards and > punishments which turn certain moves into traps which lead to the end of > the > game. Its "freedom" is illusionary. That's why, the game develops certain > patterns of movements, often named after the practitioners who imagined > them, to delay (never succeed) that end. > > c) While it is being played, the game is absolutely absorptive/immersive, > one caught in the mystery of the next move and who will win and lose, also > vicariously (virtually?) the onlooker matching his or her wits against > those > of the players. Once the game is over, those passions gone (reviewed in > "tranquility" so to speak), one can go back to the game and enjoy the play > of the mind two intelligences fighting each other may have produced. In > other words, after its end, a game may gain the element of play. I would have thought that the element of play is at play during play. Afterwards, the element of play is different. The play turns to attaining appreciation and overview of the whole. > d) A game of chess has no enigma. It has no enigma because everything that > occurs in it can be explained, exhausted by the sets of rules of the game. > Chess has no content, no post mortem residue of life which will blur that > clarity, throw sand into the infernal efficiency, cast doubt on its > completness. Chess is full of enigmas. Chess is used as a metaphor for fate, for intellectual competition and battle, for the vastness of finite possibility, for the enigma of intelligence, and so on. Ingmar Bergman and T.S. Eliot, just off the top of my head, use chess in important ways in their work. I don't think they would have done so if they agreed with you that "a game of chess has no enigma". The enigma of chess is a long-standing cultural construct. > Discussing the distinction between religion and science, Saint Augustine > said (I am paraphrasing) that religion deals with the question of "how to > go > to heaven, and not how the heavens go." I think this argument can be > applied > to our discussion here. Almost all your discussions of computer art > involve > a description of process, how one can do certain things. As far as I am > aware, not once do you discuss why you developed a certain set of > algorithms > rather than the other, what is the "value" embedded in that choice. To put > it more concretely, never once do you explain why you chose Kandinsky who > figures so prominently in your work -basically implying any other artist > or > image would have done as well. It is this lack of content -of ideas- > except > as sets of movements, instructions which I find so frustrating, which > reinforce in me the feeling that what is going on here is more in the > nature > of a game rather than creating an enigma. This does not mean it is > impossible, but it needs a different approach to define itself which will > reconnect it to the world. A guitar can be played in many ways, and it can play many things (and the same thing in different ways). Is there one type of music or one particular musician's work that is best on the guitar? No, the idea strikes us as narrow. Similarly, dbCinema can be played in many ways. I use Kandinsky frequently when I want to make abstract art with dbCinema. Certainly Kandinsky's work works very well in dbCinema for the creation of abstract art. But I have used Klee also, and some prefer that work to the Kandinsky work. In dbCinema you don't actually have to use any images, if you don't want. You can just use color. But it is fascinating to use images with dbCinema. I love Kandinsky's work. Although it is abstract, it is connected to the world by being connected to the heart and the mind and our sense of color and in being about painting and art, music, shape and form. It is connected to us, in short, by being supremely beautiful. If art is beautiful, Murat--and I don't just mean pretty--then it has a very strong connection to us. And that is the sort of connection I strive for in my work in dbCinema on abstract art. And dbCinema is connected to the world also as an interactive work. You connect with it or not. And it is connected to the notion of software art and computer art and appropriation and net art and online feeds and so on. It's conceptually very rich. > As I tried to show in the chess analogy, rules are never neutral. The > sense > of total openness and freedom they may project at the beginning has in > reality implicit restrictions which limit, censure, even punish this > freedom. That is why David made parallels to fascism in his critique of > what > is going on, that is why the nature of the rules themselves (its specific > "program") must be part and parcel of any computer work -not the how of it > but also its why -its metaphysics- which opens it to the creation of an > enigma, possibly the best definition of what art is. I see. Chess and computer art are "fascistic". Don't forget guitars. Guitars also are fascistic because they are tuned in ways that force you to play certain things and not others. The Oulipo is also "fascistic". They deal with constraints. Rules. Imagine that. S&M all over again. Have you ever read the observation that "free verse is never free"? Even free verse is not entirely free. Murat, complete freedom involves formlessness. Form arises out of constraint, limitation, rules, and borders. A shape is a shape because of its borders. In art, we use constraints, limitations, rules and borders to create shape and form, and yet strive to make these contain multitudes and mystery. ja http://vispo.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 14:54:58 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Joel Weishaus Subject: "The Gateless Gate" Pages 45-46 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Friends and Colleagues; Here are Pages 45-46 of "The Gateless Gate": http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282/Gate/Pgs%2045-46.htm Paragraph headings: What keeps me walking up the same path... His work abounds with examples... (quote) Last night I was back in the old temple... I am going to school myself so well in things... (poem) According to Karin Sanders, "There is no such thing... Here is where every thing begins... Cover (to begin, or begin again): http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282/Gate/cover.htm Introduction (revised): http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282/Gate/Intro.htm Please Note: During the course of writing these two pages, and making an image for = them, I read a letter James Hillman wrote to Brazilian archetypal = psychologist, Marcus Quintaes. In it, Hillman, still probing important questions in his 80s, asks, = "Must we prioritize word over image or image over word? If, however, we = do make this move in one direction or the other, what would be the = consequences?" After reading this, the image I was creating began to = grow, until it filled an entire page! The "consequence" here seems to be = the initiation of a dialogue between words and images. Then I thought back to hieroglyphics used until, around 1500 B.C.E., the = alphabet was invented by Semitic tribes in the Middle East. After which, = especially in the West, written words and made images slowly parted = company as more progressive languages developed, until modern artists = tried to reintegrate words and images again. However, to this day, that = work has at best been less than satisfying, at least to me, and doesn't = carry the authority that hieroglyphs did.=20 Instead, I came upon juxtaposition, which of course is not a new = strategy, but one that, because of its subtle signals between words and = image, made me rethink the possibilities of this project. I decided, = then, to redesign it from the beginning in the manner of these two = pages, which will also give me a chance to do some rewriting. Thus, pages 45-46 are harbingers of a revisioned version of The Gateless = Gate that will go on-line as soon as it's completed. Thank you so much to those of you who have been reading The Gateless = Gate. I am humbled by your interest in this work. I also want to wish everyone a happy and wondrous 2010. -Joel Weishaus =20 =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html